# [Official] The Mouse Suggestion Thread



## F u r u y a

*[Official] The Mouse Suggestion Thread*​

Congrats guys, we've now made the mouse suggestion thread a sticky.

Every day we receive multiple threads where people ask for mouse suggestions. Since these threads come up so often, this thread will act as a hub for suggestions.

This will:

Help buyers get their questions noticed. Many times these individual mouse suggestion threads are ignored because there are so many of them.
Help knowledgeable members give advice in one consolidated location

To prospective buyers, please list the *top 1-2 attributes* you're looking for in a mouse. Additionally, answer the below questions to the best of your abilities. The more detailed you are, the better we can find a mouse that suits your needs.


Quote:
What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


*You can copy the questions into your post from here.* (Click to show)Code:

 What's your grip style? 
 What's your sensitivity? 
 What's your maximum budget? 
 Do you want additional buttons? 
 What games do you play? 
 Do you mind about prediction? 
 Other relevant information:Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc



*Explanations*


*Grip*
Grip style or grip type is the manner with which you hold your mouse. There are three main styles:

*Claw grip*








*Fingertip grip*








*Palm grip*








The grip type allows to choose the shape and weight of the mouse.
Example: fingertip grippers will most likely want small and lightweight mouses.


*Sensitivity*
Sensitivity represents how fast the mouse cursor moves in relation to the mouse physical movement. For FPS games, sensitivity is commonly defined by *distance/360°*. Or, more generally, it's defined by *low*, *mid* or *high* (please refer to the link below if you're not sure).
Example: 50cm/360° (to make a full 360° turn, it's needed to move the mouse by 50cm). That's an example of a *low* sensitivity.

The sensitivity allows to choose the dpi of the mouse and, most importantly, it defines the top speed needed.
Example: low sensitivity players very often hit high speeds; thus, they need a mouse that can support those high speeds without any kind of acceleration or malfunction.

More info: ESR.


*Prediction*
Prediction (aka Angle Snapping, Drift Control, Correction) helps you to draw straight lines: the mouse tracking corrects (removes) the minor deviations from your line, making it as straight as possible, up to certain threshold, which varies from mouse to mouse (some mouse has more prediction than others). Ideally, a mouse should have the option to turn off the prediction, but there are plenty of mice with inherent prediction that can't be turned off.

_Original thread starter hella - merged for simplicity....Arizonian._


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## F u r u y a

Hi hella,

I had a similar thought long time ago. I was thinking in creating a thread entitled something like "Buyers: Read this before opening a thread asking for mouse/mousepad recommendations!" and impose anyone that wants a recommendation to asnwer to some basic questions.

Roughly, something like this:
Quote:


> [Title]
> Buyers: Read this before opening a thread asking for mouse/mousepad recommendations!
> 
> [Body]
> Before opening a thread [_or asking in the dedicated mouse suggestion thread_], make sure to answer the following questions:
> 
> What's your grip style? [_explains what is grip style_]
> 
> What's your sensitivity? [_explains what is and how to determine sensitivity_]
> 
> Etc


I was just too lazy to implement that, it's good that you had this initiative and created this thread. I think that imposing people to answer at least some basic questions like grip and sensitivity (and ignoring/warning/deleting threads that do not respect that guideline) would help to keep this forum more organized. It's indeed sometimes just a mess of "recommend me a mouse/mousepad" threads.

A great example is this: Looking to buy a laptop? Read this first.


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## hella

Great thinking Furuya.

The more information you provide on your mouse preferences, the more we can help you. The template provided above would serve as a good sample of your preferences but please feel free to further elaborate on what features you want in a mouse.

Lift-off distance, additional buttons, tracking quality, DPI, what games you play, and any additional information will help us help you.


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## HWI

Another question is if they prefer prediction/angle snapping or not, as I believe that is one of the main determining factors between the G400 and DeathAdder since both track really good.


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## F u r u y a

Done.

Let me know if I missed something. I'll ask mods to make it sticky (if everyone else also agrees of course).


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## Krully

Funny thing is, as per normal, it will go un-noticed and the posts will continue!


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## F u r u y a

So you think that the world is lost and there's nothing we can do about it?

jk


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## Saberfang

I like your idea. I opened a suggest me a mouse thread two day ago but I will move it here with Furuya format.

*1. What's your grip style?*

I'm using a Razer Copperhead now and I'm in between with fingertip and claw grip. My hands are little too.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Using all the 2000dpi of my Razer and feeling that a little bit more wouldn't be bad so high for sure.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Don't have a maximum budget but what I'm looking for is a great and well made mouse for the right price









*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

The 7 buttons on my Copperhead were always enough. Maybe something like the sniping button of the R.A.T. will be cool but not really important.

*5. What games do you play?*

Actually League of Legends a lot, anyway mostly RTS and FPS

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'm not even sure how much I experienced line prediction in this years. I think that choosing if you want to activate it or not will be good

*7. Other relevant information:*

Don't want a wireless one and maybe not too heavy, not sure about this one because I'm actually using a light mouse maybe something heavier wouldn't be bad. I actually prefer matt finish on glossy.


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## LoveKnight

Hi! Everyone, I am a newcomer to this forum. Recently, I have been watching this forum and this box for over 3-4 weeks because I am actually having some problems with my Razer Imperator and Steel Series 4HD.

My first mouse was Logitech MX518 which I bought in 2007 and it was dead half year ago. The symptom was the mouse stopped working every minutes or hours and every times I turn the mouse over, the red optical lights turn off and on again. I thought the mouse would want to retire at that time.

After that I bought the Razer Imperator 3.5G (actually I wanted to buy Razer DeathAdder 3.5G but unfortunately the shop where I bought the mouse sold out the Razer DeathAdder so I was so hurry and picked up the Imperator). I made a mistake that I bought Imperator without checking or reading all of the reviews carefully. This Imperator was really a pain in the ass. Look like this mouse has all of the mouse problems such as mouse acceleration, jitter, shaking, lift off issue, axis lock, turn off randomly, what's else ^;.;^ ? I updated the mouse to the newest firmware 1.16 and driver 1.02 but these problems have been wandering around and it was really annoying.

Then I bought SteelSeries 4HD last week and hope that could tackle the mouse problem but you know, it could not. The tracking is still not good and unprecise.

So I decide to buy a new mouse and give this stupid annoying mouse to my brother. At least this mouse is bad quality but using it for normal activities on computer such as Word, Web or something like that is fine.

Next mouse, I trust in you guys. Please help me buy a perfect mouse. Thanks!

1. What's your grip style? Palm grip and Fingertips Grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? Well, I am not sure but my Windows desktop sensitivity is 6 and in game is about below 2 in CSS. I usually use high DPI such as 800-1600.

3. What's your maximum budget? about 100-150$.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes about 7-8 buttons are good enough for me.

5. What games do you play? CSS, Warcraft III and sometimes other games such as point and click games.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Maybe, but recently I am learning Photoshop so I think prediction relates to my requirement too. You know but this is not an important matter.

7. Other relevant information:
LOD (don't know what this is?) Maybe lift of distance huh? 2-3 cm I guess. Ambidextrous shape: Right hand mouse and I don't mind to try both hand mouse.
Weight: don't mind about this.
Wireless: I prefer a wire mouse to wireless mouse.
Non-braided cord (don't know what this is?)
Glossy finish: No, I want a rough side mouse to help me use the mouse for a long time without sliding.
Button activation force (don't know about what this is?)
Driverless: driver or not is not really a matter but the mouse must work well without out driver.
onboard memory: Yes

I am paying attention to Logitech G500 and SteelSeries Sensei but Sensei have announced and maybe hasn't sale on my country yet and the price has been still unknown either.

Thank for reading this post and if I made some English mistakes, please forgive me because English is not my native language.


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## F u r u y a

My suggestions:

@*Saberfang*

Spawn

@*LoveKnight*

Good for palm (can be fingertiped, but this is subjective)

Deathadder
G400 (has prediction)
Good for fingertip (can be palmed only if you have *ultra small* hands):

Spawn
About the 7th question: you don't need to input everything in the example; you can input anything else you want, including or not including something from the example. Those were just suggestions, I edited it to make that more clear.


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## hella

Saberfang and loveknight, great posts. You both provided a ton of information that'll help us find what mouse you want. Please dont be afraid to ask followup questions.

*Saberfang*, I wish I could help you but aside from the Kinzuadder I have no experience with fingertip or claw grip mice. To clarify things, what would be the 1-2 most important features you look for in the mouse?

*Loveknight*, that's unfortunate you had a bad experience with the MX518. From your description it looks like you had a faulty cable which manifests itself by the mouse randomly turning on and off.

Both mice you have your eye on, the G500 and the Sensei use the Avago Avago 9500 sensor which has *unpredictable positive acceleration* around 5%.

This unpredictable acceleration ususally doesn't cause a problem for RTS players. However since you play CSS this will affect your aiming. Also, the Avago 9500 sensor does NOT track well on dirty cloth pads so both the G500 and Sensei will be out of the question if you use a cloth pad and don't keep it meticulously clean.

Based on your requirements I would go for the Logitech G400 or the Deathadder Black Edition. With regards to deathadders I would only get the black edition as you stated you don't want a mouse with glossy sides.

Which one works best will depend on your mouse preferences. Here's a quick synopsis of the differences:

The G400 is a better mouse if you like prediction. The G400 is also a better mouse if you need on-the-fly DPI changes. The lift-off distance is lower.

The deathadder black edition is a better mouse if you don't prefer prediction. The deathadder also has a 1-2 second lag for on-the-fly dpi changes and the button is placed below the mouse. The deathadder also has a stronger scroll wheel but lacks horizontal scrolling.

IMO comfortability is a huge factor in a mouse. If you can try holding each mouse in your hand and seeing which one fits you best. I used the MX518/G400 for 5 years and actually switched to the deathadder solely because it fit my hand better as I grew.


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## Peter386

Hay everyone, This one is for the R.A.T. 7 (although other mice may be tried)... Sometimes in games like Battlefield I'll on accident hit 'mouse 1' and discharge my weapon, causing undesirable results!!! So, I found that If one was to place a Guitar pic over 'mouse 1'. It sits perfectly and resistance is made by the ends of the pic resting on the 'Mode' key lip and Mouse 3, I now have a "safety" for my mouse button! Depending on what gauge the pic is, it comfortably requires just a tad bit more to click!


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## qwertyegg

I had a logitech performance mx and then bought another logitech g500 for gaming.

I have a relatively small hand so my experience might be different from many other guys.

The only problem I have hand with mx is the weight. it's wireless so needs a aa battery, which is pretty heavy. It's big, too, but that's not a big issue.

When I shifted to g500, it's good in resolution, I think it's 3000dpi or so. I don't like the grip, it's no big deal as before. The adjustable weight system is pretty good though I always keep it as light as possible.

The big problem is the left click key on g500 gives crazy sound, from the first day. It's pretty annoying high pitch sound. I guess I will request rma in a while.

On the other hand, you can adjust lots of params with the given software of g500, which is pretty cool.


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## LoveKnight

to *F u r u y á*, the DeathAdder my friend said that it usually has double-click issue after few months of using. G400 has the same shape and the cable as MX518 and just looks like *hella* said that "faulty cable which manifests itself by the mouse randomly turning on and off" so this issue maybe occur in the future too because the cable of MX518 is not good. Furthermore, I really do not like the mouse wheel of the MX518 and G400 because it so easily gets dirty and hard to clean it. It is very hard to clean MX518 when it get dirty. I used to use oil, fuel or even soap to clean MX518 but not good. The dust around it was dirty >.<.

Spawn may be not available in the shops around my house so this mouse I am afraid I have to skip it.

to *hella*, I am having a SteelSeries 4HD and Razer Mantis Control. The Imperator tracks not so badly on Razer Mantis Control (not perfect but acceptable, about 70-80% accuracy) but not on the 4HD (below 50% I think). Imperator keeps skipping mouse cursor or sometimes it stop at a second when I mouse the mouse slowly on both mousepad but more on 4HD and believe me this is really annoying.

I think about buying a SteelSeries Sensei or G500 because on Youtube I found out a guy who has a Xai and Sensei with 4HD. As he said he uses them without any problem. That is why I hope Sensei and 4HD will work well together. Someone said that Avago Avago 9500 works well on hard-plastic mousepad and could decrease the mouse acceleration below 5% (I have not proven this rumor yet).

Anyway, thank you guys! I will save my budget to buy DeathAdder Black Edition, G500 or Sensei.


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## hella

Your friend is incorrect on the double clicking issue. Both the deathadder, MX518, G400, and G500 use the same Omron switches. Therefore all these mice are likely to experience the double clicking issue.

If the imperator (which I'm assuming is the 3.5G version) had trouble on your mousepads I would be weary with the deathadder.

Sounds like you know what you want. A little research can help you find exactly what you need. Best of luck buddy!


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## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella;15288640*
> If the imperator (which I'm assuming is the 3.5G version) had trouble on your mousepads I would be weary with the deathadder.


"If the phillips twin eye laser sensor had trouble on your mousepads I would be weary with the S3888 optical sensor?"

Why do you say that?


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## hella

Good catch derp, I assumed the Imperator 3.5G used the Avago 3888 sensor. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

LoveKnight, don't make the same mistake I did; the Imperator 3.5G uses a different sensor than the Deathadder 3.5G / Black Edition. Based on my own (albeit brief) experiences with the DA 3.5G I haven't noticed any problems on cloth. Additionally I haven't read reports of it either.

The deathadder should be fine for your tracking needs. It, along with the MX518/G400 are my favorite mice.


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## terr0rt0telc0

Zowie mice I love them (perfect tracking), currently using a ec2 ec1 was too big gave the ec1 to my friend he is a palmer and I am claw. I loved my old intellimouse and have owned lazer mice and they stink. I just wish I could go down to 400dpi on the Zowie instead of the 500, but it is
in my opinion the best mouse I have used in a long time. Have logged many of hours of quakelive on this mouse already. Seeing as many get the deathadder, Only deathadder I would recommend would be the 3g not the 3.5g


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## F u r u y a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *terr0rt0telc0;15293168*
> Zowie mice I love them (perfect tracking), currently using a ec2 ec1 was too big gave the ec1 to my friend he is a palmer and I am claw. I loved my old intellimouse and have owned lazer mice and they stink. I just wish I could go down to 400dpi on the Zowie instead of the 500, but it is
> in my opinion the best mouse I have used in a long time. Have logged many of hours of quakelive on this mouse already. Seeing as many get the deathadder, Only deathadder I would recommend would be the 3g not the 3.5g


However it's worth noticing that Zowie mice (EC1, EC2, MiCO) has a bad tracking with high dpi.

That's why I didn't recommend it since the last two questions mentioned high sensitivity.

With Spawn it's the other way around: bad tracking with low dpi.


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## Saberfang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F u r u y á;15276725*
> My suggestions:
> 
> @*Saberfang*
> 
> Spawn


I read the review linked by Hella of the Spawn and it seems to be a great mouse still there is something I want to know.

First I never bought anything from CM storm so I want to know how good their customers service is? Have you seen any rma regarding the Spawn?

The mouse wheel does look cheap. The review doesn't say anything about it so I guess it works ok but I want to hear more if someone tried it. _By looking at all the reply in the review it seems to be great^^_

About the low dpi sensor bad tracking some people say they have no issue with that. Have CM storm released a new version of the Spawn to fix the problem or made a new firmware? If yes, there is a way to tell which is the new version by looking at the box?

I know these are a lot of questions but I'm getting really interested in this mouse


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## F u r u y a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saberfang;15303568*
> I read the review linked by Hella of the Spawn and it seems to be a great mouse still there is something I want to know.
> 
> First I never bought anything from CM storm so I want to know how good their customers service is? Have you seen any rma regarding the Spawn?
> 
> The mouse wheel does look cheap. The review doesn't say anything about it so I guess it works ok but I want to hear more if someone tried it. _By looking at all the reply in the review it seems to be great^^_
> 
> About the low dpi sensor bad tracking some people say they have no issue with that. Have CM storm released a new version of the Spawn to fix the problem or made a new firmware? If yes, there is a way to tell which is the new version by looking at the box?
> 
> I know these are a lot of questions but I'm getting really interested in this mouse


My customer service was not very good. They didn't reply my ticket.

Scroll wheel is good. Scroll button is OK (a bit hard).

No, it does not have a firmware yet that fix the 800dpi. Actually, the current firmware is the "fix". It was even worse!

If you're not going to use the 800dpi and you use low sensitivity, it's a near perfect mouse for fingertip grip.

You might look forward for the new CM Storm mosue (Xornet). It has the same shape as Spawn but it uses other sensor, which supposedly will fix the low dpi issues and support higher Perfect Control Speeds. Wait for someone to be a test subject before buying it.









*edit*: they finally replied my ticket . After 3 months.







:laughings


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## Saberfang

Yeah maybe the Xornet will fix the low dpi jitter issue but it will have lower max dpi I don't know when I'll be able to get one here in Italy^^ The Spawn is alredy available in a shop near my city for 35€ and I don't think I'll be using the 800dpi since I'm always using 2000dpi @ 1000Hz on my Copperhead. Still it would be nice if all the sensor setting worked flawlessy.

When the xornet is going to be released anyway?


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## F u r u y a

Dunno, take a look at the Xornet threads and let me know if there's a date set already.


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## Teasee

*1. What's your grip style?* Kind of a hybrid between the three kinds of grips .. I'd say the claw grip would be the closest to it.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* Using 1800dpi on my Deathadder.

*3. What's your maximum budget?* $100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* At least two on the side, more wouldn't hurt but I don't care as long as it has two.

5. What games do you play? Pretty much everything. FPS, MMO, RTS and RPGs are the big ones.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Don't mind.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Before I start on what I want for a new mouse, I'd like to add that I've been using a Deathadder for about a year but it's been occasionally registering single clicks as double click and has started to require more force on the left mouse button which is why I'm looking for a new mouse. Should I just get another Deathadder? I'm not sure if it's normal for a Deathadder to start having problems after only a year of use, but if it is I'd rather go for something more durable than another one.

Now, on to what I'd like in a new mouse.
- Good build quality, will last a long time of constant use.
- Similar in weight and size as the Deathadder. This one isn't very important, I guess it'd just help me get used to the new mouse faster.
- LEDs are not important, but they're a plus.


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## YelowSloth

*1. What's your grip style?*

Claw/fingertip. I think mostly the claw grip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Wouldn't honestly know, always had the most simple mouses one could get.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

About 100 euro's is my absolute max. (Say about 130 dollars)

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

That would be nice, like the sniping button on the RAT 9 I saw coming by. :3

*5. What games do you play?*

BFBC2, perhaps BF3 if it comes to steam. L4D(2), TF2, Dragon Age and Brink. Besides gaming I will be doing a lot, a lot and even more Photoshop, so it must work nicely with that too,

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Perhaps, but it must be able to be turned off easily. (I don't tolerate predictions with Photoshop for example.)

*7. Other relevant information:*

I prefer some laser mouse. Wireless only if it has it's own charge system; I don't want to put loose batteries in them. (You never got enough at home :<)

The scroll must be good, since that is what I will also use a lot.

Drivers must be not-bloat, nor the programs that configure the mouse. I don't want too fancy things there, so I don't want things idling in the system tray to make the mouse work.


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## Dasweb

*1. What's your grip style?*

Claw

2. *What's your sensitivity?*

Play at the highest DPI, mid way on windows.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Would like at least one side button

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS's (Battlefield, CoD, etc)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'm not even sure I've ever used a mouse with prediction, if it's good for FPS's that's fine, if not then no.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I use a GLASS mousepad (The Ice Pad I-2), so it would need to work well with that.


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## ErdincIntel

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm (comfortable fit is so important)

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
High DPI

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
150$

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Would be nice but not so important

*5. What games do you play?*
RPG and FPSs (and may be MMORPGs later)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
What's right for better gaming experience?

*7. Other relevant information:*
I want the best sensor technology, I mean most accurate (it's laser, right?) and need wireless to feel comfortable. I used to have a MS Sidewinder X8 but it's not good, so many issues I had in games. Just checked about Logitech G700, I'm leaning towards it. Should I pull the trigger on G700? Any experiences with G700?









Thanks for this thread. I need opinions, I regret buying X8 without research







Hopefully I will use your valuable opinions here and be happy







Byez...

Edit: Oh btw, what mouse pad you recommend to use with X8 and later with the mouse you suggested?


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## LoveKnight

To ErdincIntel.

Because you want the most accurate mouse so I suggest you can choose any DeathAdder versions(DA with no prediction, no jitter,... but you need to be aware that DeathAdder can get double-click issue if you are a hardcore gamer that clicks the mouse at least one thousand clicks a day). You can buy QCK+ for DeathAdder or you can try 4HD. I am sorry I am not good at choosing good at mousepad.

Please do not ever buy any other Razer mice except these mice are Deathadder, Krait, Copperhead because ... you will know the reason if you want to try.

Wireless is not good for gamers because you can feel the delays sometimes so I suggest you should not try a wireless mouse.

If you want a durable mouse I suggest you can try Logitech's products such as G500-G400 or even G900 but these mouse are not accurate 100% because they have prediction and they use Avergo 9500 (well, this is a long story but you can search in this forum to know what members said about this sensor, except that G400 use optical sensor). However, their precision can be about 95% and you can increase the precision by using hard mousepad and laser mice help you use on common surfaces such as table, paper, glass better than optical mice.

According to my knowledge optical helps you track more precision than laser but a laser sensor have more DPI than optical and it can help you use multiple monitors easier than 1 monitor.

If you want a symmetric mouse, you can try Steelseries such as Kinzu, Xai or Sensei but I afraid I have to tell you that these mouse are not 99%-100% accurate when you compare to DeathAdder or Microsoft IE mice.

That is what I know, hope these information can help you buy a good mouse. If I make mistakes, please forgive me. I am still learning this field.


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## LoveKnight

to YelowSloth.

Because most of the games you play are FPS games and you use Photoshop too. So one of the best mice can suit your needs is any Razer DeathAdder verison because this mouse do not have prediction at 3500DPI versions or you can turn on or off at 1800DPI verions. But I have to say that scroll wheel of any DeathAdder version is usually not good at all, the quality is about average or higher than average little bit.

I am afraid to tell you that most of the good laser mice on market usually have prediction so ... you know because you like to have a good scroll wheel you can consider some mice such as SteelSeries or Logitech but most of these mice usually have prediction.

That is all what I know. Hope this post can help you. If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning in this field.


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## XiZeL

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
High

3. What's your maximum budget?
80€
4. Do you want additional buttons?
1 or 2 side buttons and a dpi change button so i can change sensitivity on the fly for scoping or rushing

5. What games do you play?
mainly fast paced FPS and some RTS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
prefer all software enhancing turned off.

7. Other relevant information:
simple dark look, nice texture and no flashy lights, and not wireless


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## 161029

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip and sometimes palm. Mostly fingertip. Hands are big since I play piano. Keep that in mind.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Don't really know.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't know. Recommend and I'll look at the price.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

None really but an on the fly DPI changing button would be nice.

5. What games do you play?

None that require a mouse but lots of precision for 3D modelling. May try FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes.

I'm thinking about a Deathadder Black Edition (or Kinzuadder/Kana-adder).


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## LoveKnight

To XiZeL.

Well, prediction function is a function that most of mice company usually do not allow you to turn on or off (I do not know why they do that). One of the mice you can turn on or off this function is Razer DeathAdder 1800DPI by using driver, Deathadder 3500DPI as I know it does not have prediction so you can not turn on or off this function.

Razer mice usually have dark black color but they are usually glossy at the sides of the mice, you can choose DeathAdder 3500DPI Black Edition because it does not have glossy sides and this version does not have led lights either. This version is appropriate for people who have sweat when they use mice for a long time.

One of the other versions is DeathAdder Dragon Age 2. It uses glossy material outside but it does not have led lights.

Mice from Steelseries are XAI and Sensei can let you configure how to set prediction but even when you turn off this function they still have little prediction. I do not know why.

If you want a mouse that do not have prediction at all you can consider DeathAdder as one of the best candidates for you.

If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning in this field.


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## hella

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ErdincIntel;15405476*
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm (comfortable fit is so important)
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> High DPI
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 150$
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Would be nice but not so important
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> RPG and FPSs (and may be MMORPGs later)
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> What's right for better gaming experience?
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I want the best sensor technology, I mean most accurate (it's laser, right?) and need wireless to feel comfortable. I used to have a MS Sidewinder X8 but it's not good, so many issues I had in games. Just checked about Logitech G700, I'm leaning towards it. Should I pull the trigger on G700? Any experiences with G700?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for this thread. I need opinions, I regret buying X8 without research
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully I will use your valuable opinions here and be happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Byez...
> 
> Edit: Oh btw, what mouse pad you recommend to use with X8 and later with the mouse you suggested?


Great post, tons of information bro.

Since accuracy is your MOST important feature by far I would only recommend the deathadder. While there's other great mice out there the deathadder is tried and true and trumps everything in the sensor tracking department.

One problem though, it conflicts with your requirement for a wireless mouse. Unfortunately the wireless mice out there today don't have top-tier tracking. Many report lift-off distance problems and jittering.

If you had to choose, would you have a wired mouse with the BEST tracking or a wireless mouse with decent tracking?


----------



## hella

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;15413626*
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip and sometimes palm. Mostly fingertip. Hands are big since I play piano. Keep that in mind.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Don't really know.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Don't know. Recommend and I'll look at the price.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> None really but an on the fly DPI changing button would be nice.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> None that require a mouse but lots of precision for 3D modelling. May try FPS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I'm thinking about a Deathadder Black Edition (or Kinzuadder/Kana-adder).


If you're industrious the kinzuadder is one of my favorite fingertip grip mice. I have 8.5 inch hands and I found it comfortable (well, as comfortable as fingertip mice can get).

Since you're into 3D modeling I would stay away from anything with prediction. All logitech mice, All Avago 9500 mice (Xai, Sensei, G9, RAT series, etc) and I'd stick with your presumptions. Deathadder and kinzuadder are your ways to go.


----------



## hella

Guys, I wish I could help you two but claw grip mice are out of my area of expertise. I'll quote their threads so it gets coverage. Anyone, please help these guys if you can:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YelowSloth;15341651*
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Claw/fingertip. I think mostly the claw grip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Wouldn't honestly know, always had the most simple mouses one could get.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> About 100 euro's is my absolute max. (Say about 130 dollars)
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> That would be nice, like the sniping button on the RAT 9 I saw coming by. :3
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> BFBC2, perhaps BF3 if it comes to steam. L4D(2), TF2, Dragon Age and Brink. Besides gaming I will be doing a lot, a lot and even more Photoshop, so it must work nicely with that too,
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Perhaps, but it must be able to be turned off easily. (I don't tolerate predictions with Photoshop for example.)
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> I prefer some laser mouse. Wireless only if it has it's own charge system; I don't want to put loose batteries in them. (You never got enough at home :<)
> 
> The scroll must be good, since that is what I will also use a lot.
> 
> Drivers must be not-bloat, nor the programs that configure the mouse. I don't want too fancy things there, so I don't want things idling in the system tray to make the mouse work.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasweb;15343954*
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Claw
> 
> 2. *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Play at the highest DPI, mid way on windows.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $100
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Would like at least one side button
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> FPS's (Battlefield, CoD, etc)
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I'm not even sure I've ever used a mouse with prediction, if it's good for FPS's that's fine, if not then no.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> I use a GLASS mousepad (The Ice Pad I-2), so it would need to work well with that.


----------



## LoveKnight

To HybridCore.

Because you play piano and you stated that your hands and fingers are big so you may need a normal or a big mouse and need to avoid a mini or tiny mouse. You do not know about your sensitivity so I suggest you do not need to buy a very high DPI mouse such as over 5600 DPI, stay with about 2000DPI or below is alright I think.

About the price I usually see that laser mice are more expensive than optical mice. If you want to buy a mouse with an appropriate price, you may consider optical mice. In addition, optical mice do not have high DPI as laser mice.

You need a lot of precision for your work such as 3D modelling then you can consider Razer DeathAdder because this mouse looks like one the best mouse on the market now. Appropriate price, many versions that can suit you, no prediction (you can turn on or off this function at 1800DPI version) and many more good functions but unfortunately the durability is always a problem to Razer mice. Look like you can easily get double-click issue after few months or a year, but someone does not get it after 2 or 3 years of using. This problem I think depend on how much time you use your mouse. If you use it for gaming a lot and click it at least 1000 clicks per day then you need to be aware of this issue. But this mouse is not very expensive and double-click issue can fix if you have knowledge about mice and buy equipment to replace it or just return it to Razer support to let them fix it for you.

You stated that you want a Kinzuadder so If you have a chance to buy this mouse, just go ahead. Many people do not like the shape of DeathAdder and I am one of them but unfortunately I do not have a chance to buy KinzuAdder.

If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning this field.


----------



## J92

*1. What's your grip style?*
It's like claw/fingertip hybrid.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Low.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
80€.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Two side buttons are necessary.

*5. What games do you play?*
Only Fps-games such as Cs,Cod 4,Bf2...

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Rather no prediction.

*7. Other relevant information:*
-I would want a mouse with minimum amount of acceleration.
-DPI changeable by one digit. (400,401,402,403..). Not a deal breaker though.
-Wired.

I'm currently using MX-518 because Xai just broke down. I like both of those mice.
I'm currently using Qpad Heaton mousepad and most likely I will use it with new mouse as well.
I've thought that G500 could be a good mouse for me because it has Mx-518's shape and the same sensor as Xai has.

But I hope you can give me some new ideas.


----------



## Siddhesh222

1. What's your grip style?
palm-fingertip hybrid.Depends on situation really.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Low. according to phoon.us, 44cm/360.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't mind spending a lot if a mouse is worth.But don't need unnecessary bling bling like sensei.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Wouldn't mind if the mouse lacked em'. Don't use the current ones on my mx518 because of weird grip

5. What games do you play?

Precision FPS usually. A bit or RTS here and there. But 90% of the time CS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Well the only gaming mouse I have used is mx518... so no idea.

The weird thing about my hand is my fingers are long ( hand is 7.5 inches top to bottom) and my palm is NOT broad ( around 3.25 inches).

I was thinkin about DA:BE and the abyssus.DA is proven and its performance is pretty well recorded.

The thing that struck me about the abyssus is its light weight and i think It might help me since I also can use fingertip grip.The sensors are basically the same. And my aim is the flick type so I guess smaller mouse are better?

Is the jitter issue fixed in the newer ones or the LoL edition? Is it actually that big of a issue while actually in a game?

Need your opinion guys!


----------



## XiZeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight;15417118*
> To XiZeL.
> 
> Well, prediction function is a function that most of mice company usually do not allow you to turn on or off (I do not know why they do that). One of the mice you can turn on or off this function is Razer DeathAdder 1800DPI by using driver, Deathadder 3500DPI as I know it does not have prediction so you can not turn on or off this function.
> 
> Razer mice usually have dark black color but they are usually glossy at the sides of the mice, you can choose DeathAdder 35000DPI Black Edition because it does not have glossy sides and this version does not have led lights either. This version is appropriate for people who have sweat when they use mice for a long time.
> 
> One of the other versions is DeathAdder Dragon Age 2. It uses glossy material outside but it does not have led lights.
> 
> Mice from Steelseries are XAI and Sensei can let you configure how to set prediction but even when you turn off this function they still have little prediction. I do not know why.
> 
> If you want a mouse that do not have prediction at all you can consider DeathAdder as one of the best candidates for you.
> 
> If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning in this field.


thanks rep


----------



## Zwiebi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LoveKnight*


DeathAdder *35000*DPI Black Edition


You have seen the future there my friend...

XiZeL:

You pretty much described the Logitech G400 - wired, elegant, no flashy stuff, perfect tracking, decent LOD, good side buttons, DPI switching buttons (DA only has a profile switching button on the bottom of the mouse) - except with the prediction part. However I can tell you, that even though I only used mice without prediction before (WMO, DeathAdder, Abyssus and CM Spawn for a short time) I can't really notice it with the G400.


----------



## LoveKnight

To J92.

I can not think any mouse can fulfill your increase or decrease requirement by 1 DPI except the new mouse SteelSeries Sensei. However, I am afraid that your 80 Euro is not enough to buy this mouse because this mouse costs 89 Euro (have not yet include tax or shipping fee or something like that).

Sensei has prediction but you can adjust prediction to suit your need. If you want no prediction at all with this mouse, I do not think you can so you have to accept that.

If you need a durable mouse I think you are right about G500. Besides, G500 - Xai - Sensei use the same laser sensor. If you used to use Xai and you liked it so you can choose G500 or Sensei without any problem. However, be aware that there was a special case of a member is this box had a problem with his Sensei. The mouse did not work and he is returning it to SteelSeries support.

But if you need the most precision mouse out there. I am afraid you have to choose Razer DeathAdder, MX518 or G400 or IE series (These mice were tested by professional gamers).

If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning this field.


----------



## J92

Thanks for your reply LoveKnight.

Yes, I was afraid that there possibly wouldn't be a mouse for all my requirements. After using Xai, I guess it would be a natural move to change to Sensei because of the same shape and sensor. But I think it's is not worth of buying. What comes to G500 it has same shape as MX-518 and same sensor as Xai and it's a lot cheaper than Sensei.

I've tested many times my friends Deathadder and I just don't like its shape.

I don't think that G400 would be my choice either. It's just a new model of Mx-518 which I'm currently using (but unfortunately its right mouse button isn't working properly).

MS IE-series has no changeable DPI and it's old.









Is there some other mice I should consider or should I just buy a G500?


----------



## Nuxes

I currently have a Razer Deathadder that is dying. I've had it about 2.5 years. Only six months after I bought it, the mouse wheel click stopped working. I never use that so it wasn't a big deal. But recently it has started accidentally double-clicking, which gets annoying. So I'm looking to replace it:

*1. What's your grip style?*
This
I guess it is a claw grip, but I use the wrist pad as a pivot.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
At 1800dpi, it's a 6 in the Windows control panel, and in Source games I have sensitivity set to 5.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
~$50

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
At least the two thumb buttons for web browsing.

*5. What games do you play?*
Everything from RTS to FPS, although I don't like sniping, I'm usually CQB.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Dislike

*7. Other relevant information:*
I'm right handed.
I really prefer wired, I hate batteries dying in the middle of a game.

I know a lot of people like the Deathadder, and it does fit my style well, but I haven't been happy with the quality of mine. I've been looking at the R.A.T. 3, but I've heard bad things about the reliability of those mice.


----------



## Zieb

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
No max budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only a few, less than 10

5. What games do you play?
I play all types, MMORPGs, RTSs, FPSs etc... The main game it matters for though is Battlefield 3.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know.

7. Other relevant information:
I want a wired mouse. I'd like the ability to switch the DPI on the fly. I do not like buttons on the right side of the mouse. I am a fan of unique looking mice also, note, I do not like how the RAT looks.

Thanks for any help!


----------



## podunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nuxes;15428319*
> I currently have a Razer Deathadder that is dying. I've had it about 2.5 years. Only six months after I bought it, the mouse wheel click stopped working. I never use that so it wasn't a big deal. But recently it has started accidentally double-clicking, which gets annoying. So I'm looking to replace it:
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> This
> I guess it is a claw grip, but I use the wrist pad as a pivot.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> At 1800dpi, it's a 6 in the Windows control panel, and in Source games I have sensitivity set to 5.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> ~$50
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> At least the two thumb buttons for web browsing.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Everything from RTS to FPS, although I don't like sniping, I'm usually CQB.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Dislike
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I'm right handed.
> I really prefer wired, I hate batteries dying in the middle of a game.
> 
> I know a lot of people like the Deathadder, and it does fit my style well, but I haven't been happy with the quality of mine. I've been looking at the R.A.T. 3, but I've heard bad things about the reliability of those mice.


The CM storm spawn at 1800 DPI is good for claw grip. Do you claw grip your DA? If that is the case, the spawn may be too small for you.

It does fit your other requirements though.

EDIT: just saw your pic...still recommend the storm spawn, or the DA:BE.


----------



## Zieb

The CM spawn and xornet look pretty nice for what I need. My hang up though honestly is the price. They are so cheap and it makes me worried that I am getting a sub-par mouse. What are peoples thoughts on those two mice? I am specifically looking at getting the xornet once it comes out because I've seen mixed reviews about the spawn's sensor. Otherwise, does anyone have recommendations for other mice similar to the spawn and xornet?


----------



## Nuxes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *podunk;15434536*
> The CM storm spawn at 1800 DPI is good for claw grip. Do you claw grip your DA? If that is the case, the spawn may be too small for you.


Hmm, that does look a little small, is it about the size of a laptop mouse? The shape looks kind of odd too, for a right-handed mouse. I have yet to find a mouse that's too big for my hand, I used to have a Logitech laser wireless mouse, the Deathadder is quite a bit smaller than that.


----------



## podunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nuxes;15445345*
> Hmm, that does look a little small, is it about the size of a laptop mouse? The shape looks kind of odd too, for a right-handed mouse. I have yet to find a mouse that's too big for my hand, I used to have a Logitech laser wireless mouse, the Deathadder is quite a bit smaller than that.


It is shaped like that because of the finger rest on the right side for your ring and/or pinky finger.

Is your palm on resting on the back of the mouse in your photo? If it's not, then the spawn would be OK. To me, your grip is more fingertip than claw, but you know better than i do how you hold your mouse


----------



## podunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zieb;15437825*
> The CM spawn and xornet look pretty nice for what I need. My hang up though honestly is the price. They are so cheap and it makes me worried that I am getting a sub-par mouse. What are peoples thoughts on those two mice? I am specifically looking at getting the xornet once it comes out because I've seen mixed reviews about the spawn's sensor. Otherwise, does anyone have recommendations for other mice similar to the spawn and xornet?


There is a whole thread about the spawn here. Most people would say that it is a very well built mouse. Higher priced mouses are not necessarily higher quality (look at Razer -> always has build quality issues with their mice, though the DA and Abysuss are great).

The Abysuss and spawn are similar, but there is not DPI switching on the former, but it is a very simple mouse; only 3 buttons. One thing to watch out for on the the Abyssus is some people complain about jitter on their clothe pads (recently as well).


----------



## polm

Hi, I'm looking for a mouse and need suggestions.
*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm grip
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I'm using a regular logitech wireless 800dpi mouse right now and really need better speeds.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
40$ CAN preferably shipped, or picked up locally
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Not mandatory really, idc if the mouse has some or not
*5. What games do you play?*
LoL, SCII, BF3, MW2, DIRT3
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Nope
*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
I would like a wireless mouse preferably but i can live with wired too.
Mouse can't be too small or too big, it makes it uncomfortable.
I have never tried changing the weight of a mouse so I'll let you guide me into the right weight for my type.
Having a dpi switch on the mouse would be nice but not mandatory.
Here are the mouses i'm looking at:
Steelseries Kinzu 3200dpi 27.99$
Thermaltake Black 4000dpi 34.99$
CM Inferno 4000dpi 38.99$ (the one i'm considering....)
The mouses I've listed can all be picked up at a local store which is good for me...
Thanks in advance!


----------



## LoveKnight

To polm.

Maybe there are three mice can help you.

First, Razer DeathAdder but this mouse is little bit hard to lift the mouse off the mousepad.

Second, Logitech MX518, this mouse is a living legend but the drawback is very hard to clean it after a long time of using so I suggest you should clean this mouse at least one a month or you will regret why you did not do that.

Finally, G400 is the upgraded version of MX518. At this time, many positive reviews about this mouse but there is one problem. When you install the driver there is little prediction, I do not know the newest firmware or driver can solve this matter yet or not.

You used to use a Logitech mouse so I believe your feeling is more suitable to Logitech mice than Razer mice.

3 mice above are the best mice of current mice in the market. Believe me, you do not need to buy an expensive mouse like Sensei, Mamba, Imperator or some mice like that because laser sensor is not as precise as optical sensor now, hope in the future this will change.

If I made mistakes, please forgive me because I am still learning this field.


----------



## ErdincIntel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight;15407153*
> To ErdincIntel.
> 
> Because you want the most accurate mouse so I suggest you can choose any DeathAdder versions(DA with no prediction, no jitter,... but you need to be aware that DeathAdder can get double-click issue if you are a hardcore gamer that clicks the mouse at least one thousand clicks a day). You can buy QCK+ for DeathAdder or you can try 4HD. I am sorry I am not good at choosing good at mousepad.
> 
> Please do not ever buy any other Razer mice except these mice are Deathadder, Krait, Copperhead because ... you will know the reason if you want to try.
> 
> Wireless is not good for gamers because you can feel the delays sometimes so I suggest you should not try a wireless mouse.
> 
> If you want a durable mouse I suggest you can try Logitech's products such as G500-G400 or even G900 but these mouse are not accurate 100% because they have prediction and they use Avergo 9500 (well, this is a long story but you can search in this forum to know what members said about this sensor, except that G400 use optical sensor). However, their precision can be about 95% and you can increase the precision by using hard mousepad and laser mice help you use on common surfaces such as table, paper, glass better than optical mice.
> 
> According to my knowledge optical helps you track more precision than laser but a laser sensor have more DPI than optical and it can help you use multiple monitors easier than 1 monitor.
> 
> If you want a symmetric mouse, you can try Steelseries such as Kinzu, Xai or Sensei but I afraid I have to tell you that these mouse are not 99%-100% accurate when you compare to DeathAdder or Microsoft IE mice.
> 
> That is what I know, hope these information can help you buy a good mouse. If I make mistakes, please forgive me. I am still learning this field.


Thanks Loveknight and Hella, I did my choice towards G700, Deathadder is no question a great mouse but in our country it's hard to find and its price almost same with G700's price. Also build quality and great customer service of Logitech attracted me. Package arrived home several hours ago, after 6 hours I will unpack it (I'm @work right now)







I hope it will be so much better experience for me with G700 than with my old Sidewinder X8 (whatever I did it had jitter and felt uncomfortable to track and aim in games







). Thanks for your opinions. Byez.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella;15417153*
> If you're industrious the kinzuadder is one of my favorite fingertip grip mice. I have 8.5 inch hands and I found it comfortable (well, as comfortable as fingertip mice can get).
> 
> Since you're into 3D modeling I would stay away from anything with prediction. All logitech mice, All Avago 9500 mice (Xai, Sensei, G9, RAT series, etc) and I'd stick with your presumptions. Deathadder and kinzuadder are your ways to go.


Sorry for the late reply. Kinzuadder/Deathadder Black Edition it is. Thanks.


----------



## LemonMeringueTy

I use palm grip and am currently using a DA 3.5, I find it's too small for my hands though, previously I used the G5 which I liked but it died, and the G500 which was horrible and so I bought a DA, but like I said, too tiny. Any suggestions?


----------



## ZareliMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LemonMeringueTy;15462690*
> I use palm grip and am currently using a DA 3.5, I find it's too small for my hands though, previously I used the G5 which I liked but it died, and the G500 which was horrible and so I bought a DA, but like I said, too tiny. Any suggestions?


The G500 is one of the biggest mouse I've ever seen/tried, one of the most comfortable also and it is my actual mouse. Probably one of the A4tech designs will suit you since the textures and shapes are very similar to those used by logitech, its a shame they don't provide real higher dpi (beware of interpolation, their sensors are listed tho).


----------



## LoveKnight

To LemonMeringueTy.

So how about a Cyborg R.A.T or a Logitech G9x? These two mice are big and you can increase the size of these mouse.


----------



## LemonMeringueTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZareliMan;15466254*
> The G500 is one of the biggest mouse I've ever seen/tried, one of the most comfortable also and it is my actual mouse. Probably one of the A4tech designs will suit you since the textures and shapes are very similar to those used by logitech, its a shame they don't provide real higher dpi (beware of interpolation, their sensors are listed tho).


I didn't like the G500 because I felt the weight of it wasn't balanced right, tried every combination of weights possible but couldn't get a feel for it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight;15472712*
> To LemonMeringueTy.
> 
> So how about a Cyborg R.A.T or a Logitech G9x? These two mice are big and you can increase the size of these mouse.


I had considered the G9x but I heard it had a bad sensor, I never thought of the RAT series since it's done by MadCatz and I'm still a little biased when it comes to them ever since I tried one of their horrible N64 controllers back in the day.


----------



## LoveKnight

Logitech G9x uses Avago ADNS-S9500 sensor which is not a perfect precise sensor but it is good enough to play any game. I do not remember clearly about it has negative or positive acceleration but you can tackle this problem by using hard mousepad such as SteelSeries 4HD or 9HD.

Oh by the way, Cyborg R.A.T series use Philips Twin Eye sensors. I used to have a bad feeling about these sensors because the Imperator that I bought couple months ago uses this sensor. It was a nightmare, it caused so many troubles.


----------



## ZareliMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight;15483044*
> Logitech G9x uses Avago ADNS-S9500 sensor which is not a perfect precise sensor but it is good enough to play any game. I do not remember clearly about it has negative or positive acceleration but you can tackle this problem by using hard mousepad such as SteelSeries 4HD or 9HD.
> 
> Oh by the way, Cyborg R.A.T series use Philips Twin Eye sensors. I used to have a bad feeling about these sensors because the Imperator that I bought couple months ago uses this sensor. It was a nightmare, it caused so many troubles.


The new RMA of R.A.T is said to have corrected the xy axis issue. And a semicircular opening on the sensor is suppossed to correct 90% of the zaxis issue so the R.A.T seems pretty flawless to me (a little bit pricey tho).


----------



## Siegfried262

1. What's your grip style?
Claw grip preferably.

2. What's your sensitivity?
The cheap-o mouse I use currently runs at 800dpi and it's a sensitivity I'm rather comfortable with. More options would be nice but I'd like a mouse that can do at or around 800dpi at the least.

3. What's your maximum budget?
25-50 range. I don't need anything too crazy but an upgrade from my Big Lots mouse would be nice/

4. Do you want additional buttons?
It would be handy to have a few extra buttons but I could go either way.

5. What games do you play?
Shooters, Rpgs, Rts, you name it









6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not entirely sure, could someone elaborate?

7. Other relevant information:
A little bit of heft wouldn't be bad but I wouldn't want it to be too heavy.

What might you guys suggest? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ProdigySim

I'm really lost when it comes to mice...

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm, hardcore lazy palm.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I'm pretty sure I'm using the default 800dpi on my mouse, default windows sens. In Source, I use raw mouse input with sensitivity 2. So, low sensitivity.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Probably about $100, but I can be convinced.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
This is a big deal for me. I have 4 thumb buttons on my Performance MX and I use them all heavily when I play. I can't imagine giving them up.

*5. What games do you play?*
L4D2, TF2, CSS...

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No idea.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Basically, I love my Performance MX, but it's getting old and it's wireless. I just want a high quality *wired* mouse (giving up on wireless) with 4 thumb buttons. I'd prefer a heavy, ergonomic mouse.


----------



## Charmape

1. What's your grip style?
Palm and Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium but I want the mouse to work well in high sensitivity as well.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100 USD/CAD not including taxes and shipping

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 on the left side, dpi button optional

5. What games do you play?
TF2 mainly, other FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I prefer little to no prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Has to be wired
I lift my mouse a lot
I hate the glossy sides on Razer mice and cheap plastic that wears off
I don't care if it's laser or optical but I do use a soft mouse pad (Puretrak Talent).

Fairly small hands - 14cm from index finger to bottom of palm
Did not like the shape of MX518 - base is too small?
Did not like the shape of Lachesis - too flat
Liked Imperator shape (place to rest thumb + arc of base), also like the Ikari but would prefer a slightly smaller mouse

Thanks! <3


----------



## Jaxlb

1. What's your grip style?
Palm (I'm currently using the Microsoft Sidewinder X5)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium to high. I'm currently using 2000dpi but I would prefer to have higher dpi because I find that my mouse is too slow at times.

3. What's your maximum budget?
I'd say around $150 AUD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I'm not to fussed with additional buttons but I at least want the forward and back button.

5. What games do you play?
I play TF2, L4D2 and COD Black ops.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't really know anything about prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
I have big hands so with my current mouse my fingers are touching my desk when I hold the mouse which makes my mouse hard to use at times.

I prefer wired mice but if the mouse is wireless but can be used while charging that is fine with me. I prefer matt finish not glossy as I tend to sweat a bit at times.

My mouse at the moment gives me crams at times cause it has no finger support on the sides so some sort of finger support on the sides would be great.


----------



## F u r u y a

wow that's a lot of people asking! ^^

I'll try to give my two cents and help answering the questions.

*Siegfried262*: Can't think of a 800dpi claw grip with excellent tracking! Can someone help me out answering this? I always don't suggest big and heavy mouses for claw grip but if you can stand with those, then you have a lot of options: Zowie EC1/EC2 (good tracking for low dpi) and Razer Deathadder for example.

*ProdigySim*: 4 thumb buttons? Oh, no idea. SteelSeries Xai and SenSei have 4 side buttons but two on each side (not 4 in thumb), but don't forget the infamous inconsistent acceleration present in all Avago ADNS-9500 based mice. BTW, since you have low sensitivity, I *don't* recommend those. If you can give up in the 4 thumb buttons, then Zowie EC1/EC2 and Razer Deathadder are good choices.

*Charmape*: Spawn! (*maybe* you can palm it since you have small hands, but you can claw it just fine, btw it was specifically designed for claw grip).

*Jaxlb*: Deathadder (Black Edition: no glossy), but it has no finger support. SteelSeries Ikari and a Mionix Naos mouse has a bit of support, but I can't tell you how good is their tracking for mid/high dpi. Can someone help me out answering this?

And some of you guys didn't even bothered reading the prediction explanation I wrote in the "Read First" thread? You lazy bastards!


----------



## Hougaard

After a day's research I've been unable to decide for the right mouse - apparently it isn't mentioned much how well the middle mouse button on certain products is working and I don't want to take any chances like I did last time. So you can probably guess what kind of mouse I am looking for already!









*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm grip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
My current mouse is a Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 4000 and is around 1000dpi according to this site. I suppose around the 1800dpi would also work just fine for me as I've tested and tried a Logitech MX518 mouse earlier.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Around 130$ max and very likely less. I don't want a price range to be an obstacle for you though!

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't mind additional buttons but I would probably prefer as little other buttons as possible (besides a left mouse button, right mouse button and most important: a well functioning middle mouse button/scroll wheel).

*5. What games do you play?*
I'm primarily going to use the mouse within Blender (3D Software). Unfortunately my current mouse's middle mouse button is hard, inaccurate and prevents a proper workflow.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No, not at all. At least I don't think I do, err.

*7. Other relevant information:*
The reason to that I am looking for a new mouse is because my current mouse's middle mouse button is way too hard to press and strains my finger - either when I'm simply browsning or working in Blender for a short period of time. So my only additional requirement to the mouse would be that the Middle Mouse Button is easily pressed. Compatibility with Linux would also be nice, but definitely not a requirement since that seems to be pretty rare. The longer durability, the better too of course! ^^

Your help is really appreciated, I will come back to any of you if you can come up with a recommendation.


----------



## Butter on Toast

1. What's your grip style?
Palm/Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
around 50-60€, give or take, the cheaper the better ^^

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Don't really care

5. What games do you play?
FPS, MMO, Sandbox, 3rd person, racing

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't really like the idea of my mouse telling me what I did was wrong.


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F u r u y á;15572406*
> wow that's a lot of people asking! ^^
> 
> I'll try to give my two cents and help answering the questions.
> 
> *Siegfried262*: Can't think of a 800dpi claw grip with excellent tracking! Can someone help me out answering this? I always don't suggest big and heavy mouses for claw grip but if you can stand with those, then you have a lot of options: Zowie EC1/EC2 (good tracking for low dpi) and Razer Deathadder for example.
> 
> And some of you guys didn't even bothered reading the prediction explanation I wrote in the "Read First" thread? You lazy bastards!


I think I could live with a palm grip if the mouse was large enough. The Deathadder looks interesting. If the claw grip restriction is lifted, what might you recommend?


----------



## Duplicated

1. What's your grip style? Palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? Around 800-1000 dpi on my MX518. Somehow, I just can't control the mouse the way I want at higher dpi for some reason, yet I want more dpi to be able to fly the damn jet in bf3.

3. What's your maximum budget? You get what you pay for, so unlimited budget.

4. Do you want additional buttons? dpi adjustment buttons, and 10+ customizable buttons. Going to use them when GW2 comes out

5. What games do you play? Battlefield 3, Starcraft 2, LoL, prolly Skyrim, Minecraft

6. Do you mind about prediction? Nope. Better if it doesn't have one.

7. Other relevant information: Right handed, NO wireless period, prefer matte (low priority though).

Also looking for a good mouse pad. My current (cheap) one that I bought from Target has its edge curled up, and the grease from my hand that deposit on its surface over time now causes my mouse to jitter when glide over certain area, which is annoying as f***.


----------



## BoxShot

1. What's your grip style? Palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? I honestly have no clue. I've been using a Microsoft wireless 3000 for a mouse and I've been using whatever is stock on this.

3. What's your maximum budget? I'd like to keep it under $50

4. Do you want additional buttons? I do but I don't have to have them.

5. What games do you play? League of Legends and probably some random MMO that I will play for a while then forget about.

6. Do you mind prediction? I don't know the answer to this because I don't know if my current mouse has it, but I don't think I would if it had a little bit.

7. Other relevant information: I'm right handed and I do not want a wireless mouse. I'd like to have onboard memory on the mouse to save profiles to them but this is not a must. My hand is about 1 inch bigger than my current mouse if I were to palm grip it. Hopefully you guys will recommend something with long durability.









Thanks for the help.


----------



## F u r u y a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262*
> 
> I think I could live with a palm grip if the mouse was large enough. The Deathadder looks interesting. If the claw grip restriction is lifted, what might you recommend?


Logitech G400.


----------



## Scrappy

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
5000+ dpi, I only move with my wrist so sensitive is good

3. What's your maximum budget?
BRING IT!

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only the forward and back buttons on the inside of the mouse

5. What games do you play?
CS:S

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No idea?

Basically looking for the best mouse possible for CSS I've been using a RAT 7 for about a year and it feels nice but the sensor is on the verge or earning it a one way trip out my window so I need something better. I like heavy mice.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 5000+ dpi, I only move with my wrist so sensitive is good
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> BRING IT!
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Only the forward and back buttons on the inside of the mouse
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:S
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No idea?
> Basically looking for the best mouse possible for CSS I've been using a RAT 7 for about a year and it feels nice but the sensor is on the verge or earning it a one way trip out my window so I need something better. I like heavy mice.
> Thanks for any help.


Check out the ZOWIE EC1/EC2 series, or wait for the new ZOWIE AM which is more of an ambidextrious mouse. Also Razer Deathadder is a pretty popular choice. the EC and DA mice both hold the design and shape of the classic Microsoft 3.0, which is ergonomic, form-fitting and has the forward/back side buttons for the thumb


----------



## Buttnose

1. Whats your grip style?
Switch between fingertip/palm.

2. Whats your dpi?
I use different dpis from 800-1050 or so.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't care about budget so much.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes!

5. What games do you play?
TF2/SC2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would prefer no prediction.

I've used the MX518/G500 mice to death, had to RMA the G500 twice already, I will do so again but intend to sell the one they send me.

I'm happy with the shape/feel of both, maybe with a slight preference to the MX518 but am hoping theres something else people can recommend me other than the G400 as I like the extra features of the G500 (hyperscroll, dpi indicator and extra buttons). I'd also prefer an optical sensor as I'm somewhat blaming the laser sensor of the G500 for the RMAs I've had to go through with mine. Build quality/durability is very important to me, as is ease of RMA.

What do you guys recommend? The other mice I was looking at before, perhaps a year or so ago were the Deathadder and CM Sentinel Advance, hesitant to go with the Deathadder as I've heard that they die quickly and Razer aren't so good with returns.

Too lazy to read a million reviews or trawl forums for user experiences again tongue.gif


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

1. What's your grip style?
Hybrid palm/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently use Sidewinder X5 maxed at 2000 DPI, which is not enough for me. Windows mouse speed is set to max and I always increase sensitivity in games quite a bit over default, so I like high sensitivity. I never tried it but would probably like 3000-3500 DPI, maybe even higher.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$80 (USD)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Minimum of 2 thumb buttons, maybe would like more if they were convenient to use.

5. What games do you play?
L4D(2), Portal 2, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No idea, but I like accuracy so I would imagine no prediction is preferred.

7. Other relevant information:
My hands are of average size but I like a large mouse, specifically with a large bump at the base for the palm. I would prefer something with the bump larger than the Sidewinder X5 but could live with the same. I would also prefer that the mouse weigh more than my current one. Finally, my hands are prone to sweating so rubber would probably feel unpleasant.


----------



## F u r u y a

@*Buttnose*: I was going to suggest you either Deathadder or Logitech G400 but you said you don't want them









@*ChaoticKinesis*: Deathadder Black Edition


----------



## desent

1. What's your grip style?
between fingertip and palm(alternates from time to time)

2. What's your sensitivity?

3. What's your maximum budget?
nothing crazy 50-$60 tops but prefer it to stay a lot less than that if possible
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Although i plan on gaming and have the rig for it, i have never games with a mouse with more than two buttons i am open to it for sure but nothing crazy

5. What games do you play?
cs... plan on playing more just school, work, and fam has been taking up ALL my time.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
not sure, i read what that meant, not to sure.

7. Other relevant information:
All i have ever used is a stock mouse from hp... so i have definately been missing out. I LOVE the look of that Shogun Bros x-1 red but i don't care for the controller on the bottom, and i rather have a cord (don't want to replace batteries) Looks is a plus. I also need a mouse pad. i was reading a post by another user that was interested in a mouse pad with stitching rather than without. not sure why but i saw a link to this http://www.amazon.com/Mionix-Sargas-360-Mouse-Pad/dp/B0041SNBXA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321731060&sr=8-2 nothing fancy and definately affordable... any suggestions against it or perhaps for something else?

Thanks


----------



## dNrtempest

What's your grip style?
Fingertrip - Claw i switch for rts or fps (cool no?)
2. What's your sensitivity?
1600 - 800
3. What's your maximum budget?

4. Do you want additional buttons?
y
5. What games do you play?
RTS + MMORPG
6. Do you mind about prediction?
better if i can use it in a Qck mass or Qck+


----------



## ZareliMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Hybrid palm/claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Currently use Sidewinder X5 maxed at 2000 DPI, which is not enough for me. Windows mouse speed is set to max and I always increase sensitivity in games quite a bit over default, so I like high sensitivity. I never tried it but would probably like 3000-3500 DPI, maybe even higher.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $80 (USD)
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Minimum of 2 thumb buttons, maybe would like more if they were convenient to use.
> 5. What games do you play?
> L4D(2), Portal 2, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No idea, but I like accuracy so I would imagine no prediction is preferred.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My hands are of average size but I like a large mouse, specifically with a large bump at the base for the palm. I would prefer something with the bump larger than the Sidewinder X5 but could live with the same. I would also prefer that the mouse weigh more than my current one. Finally, my hands are prone to sweating so rubber would probably feel unpleasant.


High CPI player...
The Steelseries sensei is your actual best choice. I don't reccommend going any further than 5670 CPI on that since further are interpolated settings.


----------



## daniel798

1. What's your grip style?
hybrid palm/claw. my finger dosent arc above the mouse by too much. there is just enough space for me to insert my index finger from my non-mouse hand in between my index finger and mouse

2. What's your sensitivity?
Never tried using a gaming mouse before.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
A few is prefered but not too many <5

5. What games do you play?
DoTa, LoL and some rpgs

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Whats this?

7. Other relevant information:
Intending to use with Goliathus. Currently using a Logitech BT96a

I am undecided between the deathadder and G400 and G300. I kinda like the shape of the G300 but the buttons at the top of the mouse kinda turn me off the mouse. I tried the g400 and it seems that if i use a palm grip, my fingers extend over the mouse and my forth and fifth finger is placed kinda uncomfortably.


----------



## Shinigawa

*1. What's your grip style?* Palm, I think, maybe some claw? I usually rest my palm on the mouse, though.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* Used to playing at 800-1800.

*3. What's your maximum budget?* 80$

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* They can help, but aren't a necessity.

*5. What games do you play?* MMORPGs, Skyrim, intend to play Diablo...

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Haven't used a mouse with it to know for sure.

*7. Other relevant information:* I like the possibility of a wireless mouse.

I have owned several mouses, but am always at a loss when looking for a new one. I have had a: Deathadder (gen 1), Performance MX and a Razer Abyssus, most recently. One issue that bothers me a bit is when the rubber gets sticky (caused by grime maybe?) - I would like to avoid that if possible (of course, if there is a way to avoid it in other mouses..).

I also have no idea if a decent mouse pad makes any difference for the games I do play - I currently use a very simple generic one.


----------



## HamsterOfWar

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Am not sure but an adjustable sensitivity button would be nice

3. What's your maximum budget?
$200

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not mandatory but welcome

5. What games do you play?
Fps's
League of Legends

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I've heard logitech mice are good but find them aesthetically unpleasing so please do not suggest such


----------



## Domino

*1. What's your grip style?*

A mix of palm and claw grip mouse cup.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Ranging around 800 dpi.
*
3. What's your maximum budget?*

Around $100 CAD.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Just a back button is needed.
*
5. What games do you play?*

Competitive RTS.
*
6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes! I need a mouse without prediction or acceleration.

*7. Other relevant information:*
*Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

Side grips would be nice. Also, a mousepad to go with it.

What is the G9x like?


----------



## Shodhanth

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
Cheaper the better.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 preferably.

5. What games do you play?
BF3, FPS games.

My Ikari has started double clicking and since its a gift from a friend, I don't have the bill. So RMA is out of the question. Was wondering whether the Gigabyte GM6800 mouse is any good? I have used it and found it comfortable.


----------



## BLKKROW

1. What's your grip style?

Side first but then palm also

2. What's your sensitivity?

200-800dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

$50

4. Do you want additional buttons?

right/left/wheel thats it

5. What games do you play?

fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?

no prediction

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I am an old fan of the logitech g5, i Like my mice big. no wireless please


----------



## bello

*1. What's your grip style?*
claw
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
dont know sorry ( been using some $30 Logitech mice for a few years)
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$150
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
not essential
*5. What games do you play?*
fps, wow, LoL, Minecraft

*7. Other relevant information:*
Would like to be led, cord, and look good( quite fussy about colours and look)


----------



## B!0HaZard

1. What's your grip style?
*Palm*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*1500-2000 DPI
*3. What's your maximum budget?
*Unlimited monies!
*4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes, at least forward/back buttons and tilt-able mousewheel, DPI button is helpful.
*5. What games do you play?
*COD, CS, BF, RTS, racing, indie
*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*Please god, no prediction.
*7. Other relevant information:
*I have a G500.*


----------



## mydezi

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
6/11 in Windows - mostly try to reproduce this Speed i get there with my DPI (1650) in all games. I'm used to this - only slightly different DPI settings might be fine.

3. What's your maximum budget?
100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I like my thumb button (i always remapped the middle mouse button to it) - don't insist on having 2

5. What games do you play?
SC2, BF3 - D3 and C&C

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Using a MX518 right know so i'm fine with or without it i guess

7. Other relevant information:
I want:
-okish LOD
-shape i can quickly adapt to after using the MX one for almost 8 years - still wanna try this old intelli shape yet again
-low weight
-high quality
-i prefer an optical sensor
-i prefer a mouse with drivers (so i can actually remap keys)
-i prefer customizeable DPI steps

Mices i've in mind:
Deathadder 3500
-right handed mouse (should be easy to adapt) (explorer)
-adjustable dpi
-software

Zowie EC2
-no software (can't remap keys (dumb for browsing for me))
-can't adjust DPI as i want
-like it more than the DA (explorer)

Kana
-not yet released so dunno (might have software, adjustable dpi and is optical)

Sensei/Xai
-Laser
-different shape
-very adjustable

Zowie AM
-DUMB DPI steps
-low weight and nice design (intelli)
-no software

HELP


----------



## blueslobster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> ... the G500 and the Sensei use the Avago Avago 9500 sensor which has *unpredictable positive acceleration* around 5%.
> This unpredictable acceleration ususally doesn't cause a problem for RTS players. However since you play CSS this will affect your aiming. Also, the Avago 9500 sensor does NOT track well on dirty cloth pads so both the G500 and Sensei will be out of the question if you use a cloth pad and don't keep it meticulously clean...


Why do you think that acceleration in RTS games usually doesn't cause problems? Is it because there are fewer high speed movements and more moderate speed movements in RTS games than in shooters?


----------



## Billy_5110

1. What's your grip style?
Finger tip/palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
800-1500dpi depending on the game

3. What's your maximum budget?
120$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
not really important but why not.

5. What games do you play?
cod, bf3, portal, GTA, WoW

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no

7. Other relevant information:
Wired ( or wireless if it's an excellent one like a wired), don't care about the style of the mouse at all, i have my deathadder for couple of years and it's not dying slowly, double click bug and sensivity raising up at any time and getting down also. Really annoying to game, i need a mouse reallllyyy quickly. Oh and i need a long cord, as my pc is quit away form my desk.. i can change that if the perfect mouse for me is short corded. i don't care if it has driver or not, i just need something that won't die in my hand as my deathadder did. i had a logitech mouse for 4 years before and i changed it because the pads were used as fk.

Thanks! hope ill find a great mouse because i can't find one myself.


----------



## rgrwng

1. What's your grip style?

I float between claw and the "relaxed, fingers straight" grips, whatever it is below:



2. What's your sensitivity?

I think the mouse i have right now is 1500-1800 DPI (max). it has 3 settings

3. What's your maximum budget?

i do not know yet. i see many mice with a price tag over 40$ (at Fry's), and do not offer exactly what i want. Cheaper mice i see are for laptops, and on the go, so they are very small. the LEXMAR(?) was 15$ USD, so i cannot complain.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

DPI switching? No, but do not mind if it's in an unreachable place, like the pinky finger area (which i never touch)
Sniper button? No
Scroll button? Definite YES
It's an older LEXMA anti-bacterial mouse. it is a taller, more robust looking mouse that fits my long, skinny hand well. looking for similar feeling of fullness in my hand. smaller mice are too small, so i have to control them more, which becomes a chore.

5. What games do you play?

Role playing
action/fps
browsing the internet

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I like mice that are responsive - i guess that's with all mice, really. i look to where i want the mouse to go and it should be there.

7. Other relevant information:

Drivers? Optional - If it had drivers, i do not usually install them, anyways.
Weight? the mouse i think right now is medium weight - l like lighter mice for extra comfort
i was looking at the R.A.T series, but i am worried even with the aid of the adjustable bits, that it still won't fit my hand.
i have not tried Razer mice before, they seem too much for the money.
i looked at the 100$ logitech one, cause its bulky and tall, but the price tag and speed may be too fast for me, idk.


----------



## epmatsw

A bout a year ago, I bought an Alienware TactX mouse on sale. It's essentially the same mouse as the Logitech G9x. Unfortunately, in the last month or so my mouse has started to disconnect and then reconnect. After a bit of experimenting, I realized that the cable was coming loose inside the mouse and then reconnecting during certain movements. So, with Christmas coming up, I'm in the market for a new mouse. I know I'd be perfectly happy with the same product again, but I worry about the durability (after this one's crapped out) and I'm interested in seeing if another product would be better for the price. So, hit me with your recommendations!

1. What's your grip style?

Mostly fingertip with a bit of lean towards palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Not sure. I usually use the 2nd or 3rd setting on my mouse, so around 3000?

3. What's your maximum budget?

Probably $80, since that's what the G9x would cost

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Eh. I hardly ever use the extra buttons on my current one, so it's not that important. It's a bonus though I suppose

5. What games do you play?

Mostly FPS, currently BF3, but I dabble in everything. Skyrim is my big one at the moment.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Not even sure if my current mouse has it. I'd like a mouse that performs like my current one since I'm used to it, though I suppose I could adjust.

7. Other relevant information:

I do a lot of programming if that make any difference. I also don't care about wireless vs wired, but my desktop doesn't have bluetooth.


----------



## Lujani

*1. What's your grip style?* Claw grip with the heel of my palm as a base on the desktop, with my thumb+ring+pinky moving the mouse. I have wide though short hands, so excessivly long mice are out. Currently using a Razer DeathAdder V2, which fits quite well but I'd like something that has a bit of thumb/pinky support.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* Anywhere between 800 - 2000, or the ability to be turned down to this sensitivity range.

*3. What's your maximum budget?* If the shoe fits...

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* At least 1 thumb button, and nothing on the pinky side. I don't like mice with over the top amounts of buttons.

*5. What games do you play?* Mostly FPS, some RPG. I also occasionally do 3D modelling.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer none, though mice where this feature can be turned off are fine. If it fits all the other criteria then this feature being included could be forgiven.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Overall aesthetics come 2nd for me, comfort and functionality are king. A wireless mouse would be nice, but not essential as long as the cord is braided (not stiff plastic). Also a mouse with quality drivers and config software, or good driverless performance - no bloat/crapware.


----------



## instag1b

*1. What's your grip style?*

Usually Palm grip. I loved the intellimouse 3.0 and the deathadder, but both mice had build qualties that left a lot to be desired.
However, I have been using a spare WMO and I'm beginning to get used to it, but the comfort is just not quite as nice for me as a palm grip mouse.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Around 25cm/360

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Around £50

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Preferably yes. It's nice to have a side button on my mouse for push-to-talk.

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS games only.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Not really. Have tried out some MX518s and they feel fine to play with.

*7. Other relevant information:*

Would like the mouse to last more than 6 months.


----------



## PUNiZZLE

I've owned a MX518 1600DPI version for quite a while now. It still works and hasn't failed, but just want something more sensitive and new.

1. What's your grip style?
Alternate between fingertip and palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600 (too low for me)

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100 or less preferred. But $150 max

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I just use one additional for in-game talk, but could find use for more

5. What games do you play?
CSS and that is it. lol

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really.

7. Other relevant information:
I don't care about much else really. Using this on a SteelSeries pad if that matters? I played with my buddies RAT7 which I found nice, but as I understand that sensor has some sort of issue as well as they are plastic and tend to break?


----------



## TheDevo

*1. What's your grip style?* Claw grip, with use of thumb and ring finger for movement.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 1800

*3. What's your maximum budget?* $70

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* Back / Forward would be nice.

*5. What games do you play?* MOBO, MMO, with a little FPS on the side.

I was initially going to purchase a DeathAdder v2, but I've read too many conflicting reports about what grip it's optimal for. Also the somewhat cheap feel / look of the DeathAdder scroll wheel.


----------



## Swiftes

What's your grip style?

Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

800-1200

3. What's your maximum budget?

£50

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Nope.

5. What games do you play?

fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?

no prediction

7. Other relevant information:

Own a G5 now, deciding on G400 or G300.


----------



## Mackem

1. What's your grip style?

*Palm
*
2. What's your sensitivity?

*Between 1800-2600 DPI*

3. What's your maximum budget?

*£50*

4. Do you want additional buttons?

*One on the side would be nice but is by no means necessary*

5. What games do you play?

*Mainly RTS and FPS games (Starcraft 2, Battlefield 3 etc.)
*
6. Do you mind about prediction?

*No preference, just want a good mouse*

7. Other relevant information:
*
Would prefer something that is better than my half broken G500*


----------



## jeshuastarr

What's your grip style?

Palm / Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

High, 360 in a wrist snap

3. What's your maximum budget?

No max

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Don't need any additional buttons

5. What games do you play?

Starcraft 2 and other RTS, Counter-Strike, Tribes, Quake 3, League of Legends and Dota 2, Skyrim and Witcher 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction! The thing I care about most in a mouse is response time and precision/accuracy. All of the laser mice seem to have a delay that prevents me from being able to commit to using them in close range combat. Using most mice aside from the 3.0, it reminds me of the delay of using an LCD screen. (I still use my old 19" CRT.)

7. Other relevant information:

Own an intellimouse 3.0 (gaming version).
Tried switching to mx518, but couldn't keep using it. This was due to the prediction which I noticed while moving the mouse slowly it moved in a perfectly straight line.
Tried deathadder, but couldn't keep using it. Couldn't get used to the feel of the mouse. It seemed to be slightly delayed (very slightly) compared to intellimouse.
Tried switching to mamba, but couldn't stick to it. Worse than deathadder, tried every setting of DPI.
Tried switching to imperator 2012, but couldn't stick to it. It felt awesome and it tracks well, but theres still a delay. There seems to be this kind of delay on all razer mice.

After all that and I'm back to the intellimouse 3.0, but now the mouse1 seems to be breaking after 4 years. Help!
Do any of the new mice out by zowie or steelseries or even logitech fit me? I am looking for the absolute fastest response time from movement to onscreen movement, im looking for a mouse that doesnt backlog movement like razer mice seem to. I am also looking for high tracking speed.


----------



## Bruce Willis

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
I want the cursor to move fast compared to the movement of the mouse.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
nope

5. What games do you play?
Crysis, DIRT etc. I also want to use the mouse to be great for browsing etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know.

7. Other relevant information:
Very important: it has to be ambidextrous.
Nice to have: suitable on every surface (no need for a mousepad).

I was thinking about a Logitech LS1, but it´s so cheap, it can´t be good


----------



## Christo4

Hello there! I am looking to buy a new mouse since the wheel on my current mouse broke today...
Which is unfortunate, but maybe it's better to get a new one because I had this mouse for 1 year and a half.

My grip style is fingertip. I don't think sensitivity is important to me, my current mouse has 3600 DPI i think but i only use 800. I don't want the mouse to be expensive, for example the sensei is pretty much over my budget, but the spawn or kinzu v2 is ok.
Laser vs optical... I'm not that sure honestly. I have a laser mouse with cypress ovation sensor on a cloth pad and even though it skips sometimes i still can play good, even owned a couple of times. From what i read on the forums optical is better but i honestly don't know if laser will bother me.

I want a reliable mouse that can go on for quite some time without breaking (which is why i rather you guys not recommend me Razer...) and with some additional buttons.
I use a cloth pad.
I usually play shooters and League of legends.

So which mouse to get?

And happy New Year!


----------



## DoubleB123

I currently have a Logitech M510 and I really like the shape of it, but it isn't for gaming and it is wireless.

1. What's your grip style?
A mix between claw and fingertip, but more on the side of claw.
2. What's your sensitivity?
About 10-11 cm per 360
3. What's your maximum budget?
$35, but I will most likely be buying used.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, I want the two on the side.
5. What games do you play?
TF2, COD4, CS:S
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really.
7. Other relevant information:
Need it to be wired

I'm looking at Logitech G400 and G500 and Razer Deathadder but I want some more suggestions. Help is appreciated.


----------



## Penguana

Hi everyone,

My current storm sentinel advance is having some scroll wheel issues, and the mouse click buttons are actually squeaking, on top of some other issues that are beginning to annoy me. It's a great mouse although I haven't had it too long, but I want (and kinda need) a new mouse. So here's what I'm looking for:

1. What's your grip style?
I don't mind, I'm good with claw and palm grips (right handed though)

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't usually go higher than around 3000 - 3200dpi (high I know), but I would like to be able to go to around 5000 (just as a bit of headroom, I use 3800 dpi on CS:S but my in game sensitivity is 2). That said, I'll definitely consider a zowie AM or a deathadder (doesn't have to be a million billion dpi). i can just change my in game sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No limit, but for me to pay $100+ for a mouse it better be worth it.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Definitely two side buttons and if the mouse supports on board memory etc, some profile/ dpi adjustment buttons.

5. What games do you play?
CS:S and BF3, minecraft

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer to be without it, or at least be able to turn it off.

7. Other relevant information:
Wired, don't really want wireless, and I do like some lighting on my mice (not essential, but it's cool, and sometimes helpful)

Don't mind if it's optical or laser, just laser mice seem to be more modern and have newer stuff and more dpi adjustment etc. I've looked at a bunch of mice (sensei, deathadder, ikari, naos 5000, ghost m8000x, storm sentinel, g500, g400, KONE+, and some others too) and still can't really decide, so any help would be really appreciated (sick of these late night review-watching sessions, getting so tired =P).

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Leeeeeeeeee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penguana*
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> My current storm sentinel advance is having some scroll wheel issues, and the mouse click buttons are actually squeaking, on top of some other issues that are beginning to annoy me. It's a great mouse although I haven't had it too long, but I want (and kinda need) a new mouse. So here's what I'm looking for:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I don't mind, I'm good with claw and palm grips (right handed though)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I don't usually go higher than around 3000 - 3200dpi (high I know), but I would like to be able to go to around 5000 (just as a bit of headroom, I use 3800 dpi on CS:S but my in game sensitivity is 2). That said, I'll definitely consider a zowie AM or a deathadder (doesn't have to be a million billion dpi). i can just change my in game sensitivity.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No limit, but for me to pay $100+ for a mouse it better be worth it.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Definitely two side buttons and if the mouse supports on board memory etc, some profile/ dpi adjustment buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:S and BF3, minecraft
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer to be without it, or at least be able to turn it off.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Wired, don't really want wireless, and I do like some lighting on my mice (not essential, but it's cool, and sometimes helpful)
> 
> Don't mind if it's optical or laser, just laser mice seem to be more modern and have newer stuff and more dpi adjustment etc. I've looked at a bunch of mice (sensei, deathadder, ikari, naos 5000, ghost m8000x, storm sentinel, g500, g400, KONE+, and some others too) and still can't really decide, so any help would be really appreciated (sick of these late night review-watching sessions, getting so tired =P).
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I currently have a logitech g500 and i am very satisfied with it.

1. I use palm grip

2. I use about 3200 dpi, though it is very customizable and you can switch dpi settings on the fly (you can save up to 6 different dpi levels to choose from)

3. I paid about $40 shipped from newegg when it was one sale. Worth every dollar and then some. Paid $50 for a razer mouse on sale. I liked it alot, but not as much as the g500. That and it didnt work on my current hard mousepad (mionix brand, can't remember name of the surface itself)

4. The two back/forward buttons and the third thumb button between the back/forward and the memory buttons are enough for me. I personally like simpler mice. You can also add/remove weights from the mice which is a plus for me.

5. I play alot of shooters, especially bf3. I also play some rts like sc2 and others such as skyrim and assassins creed.

6. I prefer it off.

7. I like wired mice better. The g500 has a braided cord. As for lights, it glows red on some of the buttons but it is minimal (in a good way). It looks good in the dark but it doesnt light the whole room up.

Edit: i also really like my roommate's steelseries mouse. The design is MUCH more conservative and it works very well. I believe the feet are teflon. It glides real well. Can't remember which model i was however :sly:


----------



## Crunkles

Hey everyone,

I'm in the process of optimizing all of my peripherals for my computer to actually suite me as I am spending a greater amount of time playing games that require comfortable use, namely League of Legends. Right now I use a G500 which cramps my hand and I find generally uncomfortable. I also have a G5, was ok, and Razer Mamba, which I do not like the glide of and seems for more of a palm grip. I'd never really considered the grip of a mouse until I read the sticky about finding a mouse a few moments ago. Hence I am adding a post to look for recommendations from the community. All contributions will be greatly appreciated, cheers









1. What's your grip style? I feel as though my natural grip is claw

2. What's your sensitivity? Around 1800 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget? No budget, all suggestions considered

4. Do you want additional buttons? Like at least 1 or two side buttons to use as a PTT for ventrilo

5. What games do you play? League of Legends

6. Do you mind about prediction? didn't even realize my mouse had this, so would like one I can turn off, prediction in this game is bad

7. Other relevant information: right handed, adjustable or light weight, wired, want to avoid a hard button activation force as League is click intensive, onboard memory would be nice, suppose low LOD as I lift up mouse to adjust on pad frequently

8. Mousepad? Currently play on a Steelseries 9HD Large but also have a QcK Mass

Edit: Added LOD


----------



## Mr.Pie

been looking for a decent mmo/fps mouse

1. Grip style?
Fingertip/palm grip, though I don't mind a claw grip as well
as of now I have no peronsal preference

2. Whats my sensitivity?
No preference as i've been using crappy OEM mice so no experience with gaming mice lol

3. Whats my max budget?
Hopefully within >$65-75 as I need to get a new keyboard as well

4. Do I wnat additional side buttons?
Yes! Definitly either for vent or as hotkeys in SWTOR

5. What games do I play?
SWTOR, BF3, TF2

6. Do I mind about prediction?
No preference

7. Other info?
I'm looking at the razer naga, and the G500/G400 right now. Any other suggestions?
I'm right handed

8. Mousepad?
Some generic felt with wrist rest thing


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie*
> 
> been looking for a decent mmo/fps mouse
> 1. Grip style?
> Fingertip/palm grip, though I don't mind a claw grip as well
> as of now I have no peronsal preference
> 2. Whats my sensitivity?
> No preference as i've been using crappy OEM mice so no experience with gaming mice lol
> 3. Whats my max budget?
> Hopefully within >$65-75 as I need to get a new keyboard as well
> 4. Do I wnat additional side buttons?
> Yes! Definitly either for vent or as hotkeys in SWTOR
> 5. What games do I play?
> SWTOR, BF3, TF2
> 6. Do I mind about prediction?
> No preference
> 7. Other info?
> I'm looking at the razer naga, and the G500/G400 right now. Any other suggestions?
> I'm right handed
> 8. Mousepad?
> Some generic felt with wrist rest thing


DEATHADDER 3.5G


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I'm in the process of optimizing all of my peripherals for my computer to actually suite me as I am spending a greater amount of time playing games that require comfortable use, namely League of Legends. Right now I use a G500 which cramps my hand and I find generally uncomfortable. I also have a G5, was ok, and Razer Mamba, which I do not like the glide of and seems for more of a palm grip. I'd never really considered the grip of a mouse until I read the sticky about finding a mouse a few moments ago. Hence I am adding a post to look for recommendations from the community. All contributions will be greatly appreciated, cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? I feel as though my natural grip is claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Around 1800 dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget? No budget, all suggestions considered
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Like at least 1 or two side buttons to use as a PTT for ventrilo
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? didn't even realize my mouse had this, so would like one I can turn off, prediction in this game is bad
> 7. Other relevant information: right handed, adjustable or light weight, wired, want to avoid a hard button activation force as League is click intensive, onboard memory would be nice, suppose low LOD as I lift up mouse to adjust on pad frequently
> 8. Mousepad? Currently play on a Steelseries 9HD Large but also have a QcK Mass
> Edit: Added LOD


ZOWIE AM


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie*
> 
> been looking for a decent mmo/fps mouse
> 1. Grip style?
> Fingertip/palm grip, though I don't mind a claw grip as well
> as of now I have no peronsal preference
> 2. Whats my sensitivity?
> No preference as i've been using crappy OEM mice so no experience with gaming mice lol
> 3. Whats my max budget?
> Hopefully within >$65-75 as I need to get a new keyboard as well
> 4. Do I wnat additional side buttons?
> Yes! Definitly either for vent or as hotkeys in SWTOR
> 5. What games do I play?
> SWTOR, BF3, TF2
> 6. Do I mind about prediction?
> No preference
> 7. Other info?
> I'm looking at the razer naga, and the G500/G400 right now. Any other suggestions?
> I'm right handed
> 8. Mousepad?
> Some generic felt with wrist rest thing


I wouldn't recommend the Naga at the moment because as basically any recent Razer mouse with the Twin-Eye sensor it has Dynamic DPI Scaling activated, which basically is a form of acceleration. I hope Razer release an alternative firmware where this thing is off, but until then I highly suggest to stay away from them. Well and because of a similar reason I'd also stay away from the G500.
The G400 is fine, as is the CM Storm Spawn and Xornet and maybe Zowie AM (although some people have a few issues with it). Razer Deathadder and Abyssus would be another viable option although the older batches of the latter have some jittering problems and these mice are not firmware upgradeable. Therefore you should try to get a recent one, which might not be that easy atm.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> I wouldn't recommend the Naga at the moment because as basically any recent Razer mouse with the Twin-Eye sensor it has Dynamic DPI Scaling activated, which basically is a form of acceleration. I hope Razer release an alternative firmware where this thing is off, but until then I highly suggest to stay away from them. Well and because of a similar reason I'd also stay away from the G500.
> The G400 is fine, as is the CM Storm Spawn and Xornet and maybe Zowie AM (although some people have a few issues with it). Razer Deathadder and Abyssus would be another viable option although the older batches of the latter have some jittering problems and these mice are not firmware upgradeable. Therefore you should try to get a recent one, which might not be that easy atm.


the thing is with the death adder; I've only got 2 additional buttons and I don't really like/used to keybinding all my abilities for SWTOR.........

anything else that can be recommended for an MMO?


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> ZOWIE AM


Ordered the Zowie EC2, not sure if it's the same mouse. If I don't like it I'll look around and see if the model you listed is different.


----------



## dstrk

1. What's your grip style?
Palm but I love the shape of xai

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 cpi 500hz

3. What's your maximum budget?
$120

4. Do you want additional buttons?
not really

5. What games do you play?
Alliance of Valiant Arms (FPS)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yes. I dont want any prediction

7. Other relevant information:
I've use deathadder before but I dont like it because the click button is too soft
use Xai right now and feels great about it
I use puretrak talent white for the mousemat
play at internet cafe not on personal computer

Thanks for reading this post and if I made some English mistakes, please forgive me because English is not my native language.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dstrk*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm but I love the shape of xai
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400 cpi 500hz
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $120
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> not really
> 5. What games do you play?
> Alliance of Valiant Arms (FPS)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes. I dont want any prediction
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I've use deathadder before but I dont like it because the click button is too soft
> use Xai right now and feels great about it
> I use puretrak talent white for the mousemat
> play at internet cafe not on personal computer
> Thanks for reading this post and if I made some English mistakes, please forgive me because English is not my native language.


Well this makes it kinda easy









1. Zowie AM

2. Build a KinzuAdder out of a Kinzu and Deathadder

3. Kinzu V2 (or Pro) although even when the jump bug is sorted out, the sensor still might not be as good as the first 2 suggestions.


----------



## dstrk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Well this makes it kinda easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Zowie AM
> 2. Build a KinzuAdder out of a Kinzu and Deathadder
> 3. Kinzu V2 (or Pro) although even when the jump bug is sorted out, the sensor still might not be as good as the first 2 suggestions.


ive use kinzu forget to mention before and I dont like it because its too small for my palm grip

another recommendation except zowie AM? thanks


----------



## Vikhr

Depending on the size of your hands you may have problems palming an AM, something like an IMO 1.1 or a Kana may be a better option.


----------



## Saffleur

Never had a high quality mouse before. Well, a nice wireless Logitech with a charge dock several years back.

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? Medium

3. What's your maximum budget? I want comfort and functionality, a bit of style helps. I don't mind shucking out cash to get those.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes, no, maybe? Tell me based on my game choices.

5. What games do you play?

Diablo LOD, Asheron Call, WoW, Diablo 3 (When it comes out.) May play some FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Not really but I prefer the option to turn it off/on at will.

7. Other relevant information:

Wired, prefereably braided, if not I'd end up sleeving it myself.
These may seem trivial;
I'd like it to black hands down. LEDs don't bug me. The build this is going in is black and purple. Essentially Baltimore Ravens is the goal


----------



## Crunkles

Ordered two new mice, and so far I love the Zowie EC2 Black, except it makes my hand sweat like crazy. Wish I'd known the white was made to avoid sweating before I purchased. The Razer Naga is alright, mainly I'm just not used to it so I've been using the Zowie instead. Would I notice the difference from an EC2 to the AM? I had wanted to order that one but I can't find it anywhere. I'm also looking at the Naga Hex once that comes out Feb 20th.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Ordered two new mice, and so far I love the Zowie EC2 Black, except it makes my hand sweat like crazy. Wish I'd known the white was made to avoid sweating before I purchased. The Razer Naga is alright, mainly I'm just not used to it so I've been using the Zowie instead. Would I notice the difference from an EC2 to the AM? I had wanted to order that one but I can't find it anywhere. I'm also looking at the Naga Hex once that comes out Feb 20th.


In terms of prediction yes because EC has prediction while the AM does not. And currently only ESEA.net carries the AMs. I'm waiting til Newegg and Amazon carry them too.


----------



## lynkdead

I've been stuck with a laptop touchpad for a while, but am planning on getting a real mouse again soon. Was just looking for some suggestions.

In the past I've loved my MS Intellimouse 3.0 (which I still have, but the scroll wheel is jacked up and all sticky). I also have an MX518, which I'm pretty ambivalent about.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, definitely. I don't have much experience with ambi-grip mice, so I don't know how I'd do with one of those.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't have a specific number, but generally I like to play at a lower sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No budget constraints.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, I really like more buttons. Forward/back and scroll wheel is needed at a minimum. Not a fan of pinky buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Counter-Strike (CS:GO will be a big focus, and is probably the most important overall), SC2, Diablo, TF2, LoL, BF3.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Have never used it on PC, wouldn't mind trying it out, but don't really care either way.

7. Other relevant information:
I DEFINITELY would like a solidly built, heavier mouse, the more metal the better. Rubber grip might be nice. My one complaint about the MSIE 3.0 is that it's way too light.
My other main complaint about the MX518 is I feel like dirt and crud builds up on it way too easily, not sure if it's a problem specific to the mouse or just happens with all mice.
I'd prefer NOT to have a wireless mouse.
I feel like I'd be extremely interested in the Sensei if it weren't ambi grip.

Mice that seem interesting to me: Deathadder, Sensei, RAT7 (I like the idea of being able to customize the grip, and it looks heavier than most mice).


----------



## B3anbag

1. Claw light. half-way between claw and palm.
2. Not quites ure what you mean by sensitivity as this can be adjusted via drivers/windows.
3. Max budget...i'd like to stay under 80, dont mind buying used if it's well cared for.
4. Additional buttons would be nice...dont need 15, but ~7 would be nice, including main left/right.
5. RTS mostly, going to try BF3 and a few others, DIII for sure, maybe even *gasp* Skyrim
6. no clue, i've never had a mouse that had it.
other info..right handed, small hands, would prefer a "fit" than ambidexterous. also, broke my pinky in two places a few years back, so a support or soemthing for it would be nice. i was looking at the Cyborg R.A.T. 7, maybe 9. wireless would be prefered, but it's subjective to budget, not sure the 9 is worth that much for the wireless option. If i go wireless, i would like one that has the option to go wired/wireless, seems likea good thing.

cant think of much else, thanks all


----------



## mobitout

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, sometimes I claw the mouse for short durations.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently using a 1000dpi optical mouse. I think a bit more sensitive will do.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Mmm around $80.(Might consider going over if it's really worth it)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
A few will be nice

5. What games do you play?
LoL, DotA, MMO, a little bit of FPS. Mostly RTS games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't mind.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Right Handed, Hopefully it looks nice(Razer is winning me over with the new Naga Hex), wired(if it's a good wireless mouse I'll make exceptions), ergonomic(also considering the Mionix Naos 3200)


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B3anbag*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Claw light. half-way between claw and palm.
> 2. Not quites ure what you mean by sensitivity as this can be adjusted via drivers/windows.
> 3. Max budget...i'd like to stay under 80, dont mind buying used if it's well cared for.
> 4. Additional buttons would be nice...dont need 15, but ~7 would be nice, including main left/right.
> 5. RTS mostly, going to try BF3 and a few others, DIII for sure, maybe even *gasp* Skyrim
> 6. no clue, i've never had a mouse that had it.
> other info..right handed, small hands, would prefer a "fit" than ambidexterous. also, broke my pinky in two places a few years back, so a support or soemthing for it would be nice. i was looking at the Cyborg R.A.T. 7, maybe 9. wireless would be prefered, but it's subjective to budget, not sure the 9 is worth that much for the wireless option. If i go wireless, i would like one that has the option to go wired/wireless, seems likea good thing.
> cant think of much else, thanks all


The Razer Naga Epic has 12 buttons on the left side with the forward and back button place towards the top of the left click button, fits a small, light, right handed claw grip and I believe has replaceable piece for the right side, one which provides the figures with support. Now it may not support the pinky unless you use your middle finger to left click and ring finger to right click. But the Epic can also be turned between wired and wireless. I believe it is $126 so its a little over your budget. If you don't mind minimum buttons, I use the Zowie EC2. Only has forward and back buttons on the side as extra, although lacks the pinky support but is a fairly wide-ish mouse for me at least. Or if you want to wait the Naga Hex comes out next month, which I plan to try.

Hope this helps. Cheers


----------



## B3anbag

Crunkles...yeah, that helps, thank you. I just wish stores would carry a larger variety of mice so i can actually hold it. pictures look shiny n cool, but it's tricky to figure out just where the (thumb) buttons would end up being in relation to my hand. pretty sure i dont need 12 extra buttons (naga), but that Mamba/ Elite looks like it might be comfy. the Hex looks nice too, again just having trouble relating button to thumb placement w/o having held one.
as for my pinky...i click normally, pointer & middle, but my pinky 'drags' on the mousepad so it starts to ache, hence the looking for "support"

they should set up a B&M stgre that specializes in keyboards, mouses, and mousepads for all of us old school gotta touch it shoppers!


----------



## RavOC

Just want to say that I know like next to nothing about what a good "gaming" mouse is, apart from like basic stuff like DPI. Only reason I want an average mouse is because my Dell USB mouse's right click and middle click is starting to fail/stick.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw, but I honestly dont know if I'd play better with palm. My current mouse is (I think) small for my hands, its less than 5 inches long, so I mightve just been forced to use Claw grip all this time. But I guess it'd be safer to stick with claw grip?

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not too sure how to describe this :|, best way I can put it is that in CS:S, I use about 6-7 sensitivity setting, with no acceleration and stuff.

3. What's your maximum budget?
The cheaper the better, like preferably 30 dollars or something tops lol. Im not expecting to get some awesome gaming mouse with that budget, all I really care about is getting something that works, and is an improvement over what I currently have.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Left/Right/Scroll wheel click is enough, one more button would be cool, but I really dont care.

5. What games do you play?
Mostly FPS, CS:S, BF3, and then a couple of third person games like Arkham City and GTA. (But yeah mostly FPS)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have no idea what this is, so I guess you guys being the experts should recommend something









7. Other relevant information:
Has to be wired, and other than that, I dunno. I'd like to say Im pretty careful with my mouses? mic?, since this basic Dell mouse has been in fairly high useage for like 4 or 5 years, and its still almost fully functional. Im not too sure what else I should say here, like I said I dont know much about mouses. I guess if possible I dont want a mouse with like weight adjustment and stuff. It wouldnt be a deal breaker, but something that just works out of the box with just like some sensitivity configuration would be fine for me.


----------



## d34thly

If you like playing at 2000 dpi and are used to traditional right handed shaped mice like the deathadder then my only suggetion would be a Zowie EC1 or EC2 They are like a deathadder but more precisie. The EC1 feels just like a deathadder in shape and the EC2 is the same thing but slightly smaller for mid to small handed people like me.


----------



## MaestrO_

Got sick of my Roccat Kone+ scroll wheel failures, so i decided to venture out and get a new mouse, just dont know what kind.

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
2600 dpi - 3200 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
150+

4. Do you want additional buttons?
at least 2 side buttons, thats it

5. What games do you play?
Starcraft 2, BF3, handful of steam games

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Dont know what that is

7. Other relevant information:
I'd like it to be on the larger side.


----------



## Ipwnnubletz

Doesn't look like this thread is very active anymore but I'll give it a shot -

1. What's your grip style?
Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
No clue. Using Windows default settings on an Intellimouse Explorer 4.0.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around $50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
One on the left, for the thumb.

5. What games do you play?
StarCraft II and most FPS's.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No idea what this is.

7. Other relevant information:
I hate flashy mice. Would love a plain old grey or black one.


----------



## eosgreen

more specific question maybe someone knows the answer...

what sensor does the thermaltake saphira have and does anyone have any reviews on its firmware?


----------



## B3anbag

Damn....was looking into the Mamba 2012...havent found any good reviews on it yet. The previous Mamba, did it go wired/wireless both, or just one? Found a RAT 7 & 9 for cheap and the pinky rest looks like it'd do the trick....reviews seem to be mixed...i guess that's true of all reviews tho, eh?


----------



## Gizmo

Quiet mouse...I'm needing something that doesn't go "click click click" all night like my current G9x. What's out there?


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> more specific question maybe someone knows the answer...
> what sensor does the thermaltake saphira have and does anyone have any reviews on its firmware?


ADNS-3090
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B3anbag*
> 
> Damn....was looking into the Mamba 2012...havent found any good reviews on it yet. The previous Mamba, did it go wired/wireless both, or just one? Found a RAT 7 & 9 for cheap and the pinky rest looks like it'd do the trick....reviews seem to be mixed...i guess that's true of all reviews tho, eh?


They're basically the same mouse and can go both wired and wireless. The older Mamba 3.5G (with older firmware) and the Lachesis 3G are the only mice from Razer right now with Philips Twin-Eye sensors and NO Dynamic DPI Scaling, which is basically pointer acceleration. I'm in touch with Razer about this and it might be that they'll release firmwares for their other mice to disable Dynamic DPI Scaling, but I can't guarantee that of course.

The RAT 7 & 9 use the same Twin-Eye sensor although afaik have no Dynamic DPI Scaling. Anyway for any of these Twin-Eye mice:
They are great and probably the most accurate out there, but make sure to use them on hard mousepads (plastic, glass...) and that you have no vibrating things around the mouse (desk ventilator or subwoofer for example).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gizmo*
> 
> Quiet mouse...I'm needing something that doesn't go "click click click" all night like my current G9x. What's out there?


I've heard about something like this, but it definitely was no gaming mouse. You'll probably find it pretty easy by googling for silent or quiet mouse.


----------



## tech99

1. What's your grip style?
Not totally Palm.. more like Palm-Claw hybrid. I Mostly use my wrist for movements compared to forearm. Right Handed.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low-sens. [email protected] CoD4 Sens is 0.5 @1920x1080.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No restrction there.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons will do. But more will not hurt.









5. What games do you play?
Mostly CoD4 Promod, BF3 and TF2. Also, RPG games and a bit of SC2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. Tried to play using prediction on (it is turned off usually) with my G500 and my aim didn't feel right.

7. Other relevant information:
Shape should be like/as close to MX518/G500.


----------



## hfcobra

*1. What's your grip style?
*Fingertip, with very large hands
*2. What's your sensitivity?
*I can get used to a new one if I need to, but I use 1500 CPI(DPI) right now
*3. What's your maximum budget?
*Doesn't matter
*4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Doesn't matter
*5. What games do you play?
*RTS, FPS
*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*I do not want any prediction, just raw mouse input.
*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples:
LOD?*
As low as possible honestly, Xai has it just right
*Ambidextrous shape?
*Yes, with fingertip grip that is all that is really comfy
*Weight?
*As light as possible, Xai weighs 98g and feels pretty good. Lighter is always welcome though!








*Wireless?
*Absolutely not, for a gaming mouse one of the worst things you can do IMO.
*Acceleration?
*No, but I have heard that the Xai has some positive acceleration. I have used it for a long time now but I never noticed any acceleration. Just posting here to see what is recommended for me to buy. If you think I should just stick with the Xai that is fine too!
*Non-braided cord?
*Never saw the functionality one way or the other honestly. The braided cord does make me feel like I am buying something fancy though.








*Glossy finish?
*Not sure, never had one with a glossy finish. Just had a G500 and my Xai, I really like the rubber coating on the Xai, but the G500 was very good as well and it was smooth plastic on top.
*Button activation force?
*Xai feels a little heavy to press, heard that the Sensei was different for the main 2 mouse buttons, but I am not dropping $100 on another mouse unless I am absolutely sure it is worth it. (probably not since I already have a Xai)
*Driverless?
*Doesn't matter to me
*Onboard memory?
*also does not matter
*Optical of Laser?*
I do not care which. I would like the best sensor out there. Whether that is an optical one or a laser one than so be it.

I use a hard plastic mouse pad (I can move to cloth if I need to, they both have their ups and downs) and I have very large hands, so a bigger mouse is what I am looking for. Bigger means heavier, but if there is a big mouse that is very light I will be all over that!

Just looking to see what people recommend honestly. I do not plan to buy a new one for a while but I want to see what other mice are out there that I am unaware of. Really only ever had a Xai, G500, and I used a Deathadder for a little while but it was not mine and the shape was very uncomfortable for me. LOD was also WAY too high for the Deathadder for me to even consider it.

Thanks for any recommendations of course!









*TL;DR
The absolute most perfect mouse for me to have would be one with a perfect sensor (does not have any prediction/angle-snapping, no acceleration, LOD of about 1CD or less), ambidextrous shape like the Xai, and as light as possible. Basically, I want a lighter Xai with a Deathadder sensor that has a 1CD LOD or less. The only catch is that I need it to be able to go from a low DPI for FPS (600ish, not too picky, I can get used to a new one easily) to around 1500DPI or so for using the OS and for RTS games (I HATE slow mouse pointers).*


----------



## B3anbag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> more specific question maybe someone knows the answer...
> what sensor does the thermaltake saphira have and does anyone have any reviews on its firmware?
> 
> 
> 
> ADNS-3090
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B3anbag*
> 
> Damn....was looking into the Mamba 2012...havent found any good reviews on it yet. The previous Mamba, did it go wired/wireless both, or just one? Found a RAT 7 & 9 for cheap and the pinky rest looks like it'd do the trick....reviews seem to be mixed...i guess that's true of all reviews tho, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're basically the same mouse and can go both wired and wireless. The older Mamba 3.5G (with older firmware) and the Lachesis 3G are the only mice from Razer right now with Philips Twin-Eye sensors and NO Dynamic DPI Scaling, which is basically pointer acceleration. I'm in touch with Razer about this and it might be that they'll release firmwares for their other mice to disable Dynamic DPI Scaling, but I can't guarantee that of course.
> 
> The RAT 7 & 9 use the same Twin-Eye sensor although afaik have no Dynamic DPI Scaling. Anyway for any of these Twin-Eye mice:
> They are great and probably the most accurate out there, but make sure to use them on hard mousepads (plastic, glass...) and that you have no vibrating things around the mouse (desk ventilator or subwoofer for example).
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gizmo*
> 
> Quiet mouse...I'm needing something that doesn't go "click click click" all night like my current G9x. What's out there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard about something like this, but it definitely was no gaming mouse. You'll probably find it pretty easy by googling for silent or quiet mouse.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....im guessing that they're so hyper-accurate that a bass line will throw them off? I ended up buying a RaT 7 from an OCN'er ...now just need to find a mousepad suitable for it. a hard mousepad, you say? any suggestions?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B3anbag*
> 
> Hmmm....im guessing that they're so hyper-accurate that a bass line will throw them off?










Its because the two Sensors(hence the name) look in a different angle to the Surface.


----------



## tech99

Got the G400 today, the one with no prediction. So far, I'm loving it.


----------



## Drakenxile

Hi my R.A.T. 7 just started screwing up on me has a double some times triple clicking issue which is annoying so i'm looking for a new one

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Varies i was used to my MX518 at max DPI and now With my rat7 i'm at 4000 i really don't have a preference but in the 2000+ i'm good

3. What's your maximum budget?
What budget lol i don't have a max but lets just say 100$~

4. Do you want additional buttons?
i only need back forward dpi switch and sniping i got used to it but rarely play fps so not really needed

5. What games do you play?
CS:S, SC2, DOTA2, Borderlands, Skyrim, Terraria, Minecraft. I play a bunch of games so no specific genre

6. Do you mind about prediction?
seriously don't know what prediction is sorry for being a nub

7. Other relevant information:
Weights is a cool and if it glows id prefer blue that's about it
Using a Razer goliathus mat the extended control one if that's of any use

Thanks


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drakenxile*
> 
> Hi my R.A.T. 7 just started screwing up on me has a double some times triple clicking issue which is annoying so i'm looking for a new one
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Varies i was used to my MX518 at max DPI and now With my rat7 i'm at 4000 i really don't have a preference but in the 2000+ i'm good
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> What budget lol i don't have a max but lets just say 100$~
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> i only need back forward dpi switch and sniping i got used to it but rarely play fps so not really needed
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:S, SC2, DOTA2, Borderlands, Skyrim, Terraria, Minecraft. I play a bunch of games so no specific genre
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> seriously don't know what prediction is sorry for being a nub
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Weights is a cool and if it glows id prefer blue that's about it
> Using a Razer goliathus mat the extended control one if that's of any use
> Thanks


mhmm G400/500 maybe? Got myself a G500 2 weeks ago (big step up from crappy OEM mice lol) lovin it so far


----------



## Nicko265

1. What's your grip style?
Pretty much a fingertip grip mixed with palm grip. I don't have my whole palm resting on the mouse just a bit of the thumb-side, my pinkie is placed on the mouse mat and ring finger is placed on the side (only use 2 fingers for left/right/scroll).

2. What's your sensitivity?
Anything really. I play a mixture of games so I like the ability to switch from high DPI to low DPI between, or even during, gameplay.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Within reason. I don't want to go spend $150 on a mouse, but I'm happy to spend a decent amount if it's worth it.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only a few, I don't play MMORPG's anymore so too many would just be wasted.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RPG, some RTS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Never had it so wouldn't know.

7. Other relevant information:
Customizable weight would be nice but not required, shape of the mouse isn't that important as long as it won't kill my wrist. A "Precision Aim" button like in the new Cyborg RAT's is my most desired feature, however I dislike the high price of the RAT5 (plus, the look of it, really?). Right-handed. Not wireless.

I currently use an Arc Touch Wireless as it's easy to carry along with the laptop and looks pretty epic (atleast, imo) however it is definitely not a gaming mouse.
Looking at a Sharkoon Fire Glider as it's very cheap, good DPI range, changeable weight but lacks a Precision Aim feature.


----------



## Penguana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nicko265*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Pretty much a fingertip grip mixed with palm grip. I don't have my whole palm resting on the mouse just a bit of the thumb-side, my pinkie is placed on the mouse mat and ring finger is placed on the side (only use 2 fingers for left/right/scroll).
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Anything really. I play a mixture of games so I like the ability to switch from high DPI to low DPI between, or even during, gameplay.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Within reason. I don't want to go spend $150 on a mouse, but I'm happy to spend a decent amount if it's worth it.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Only a few, I don't play MMORPG's anymore so too many would just be wasted.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RPG, some RTS.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Never had it so wouldn't know.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Customizable weight would be nice but not required, shape of the mouse isn't that important as long as it won't kill my wrist. A "Precision Aim" button like in the new Cyborg RAT's is my most desired feature, however I dislike the high price of the RAT5 (plus, the look of it, really?). Right-handed. Not wireless.
> I currently use an Arc Touch Wireless as it's easy to carry along with the laptop and looks pretty epic (atleast, imo) however it is definitely not a gaming mouse.
> Looking at a Sharkoon Fire Glider as it's very cheap, good DPI range, changeable weight but lacks a Precision Aim feature.


A corsair m60? Idk, never had one, never really suggested mice to people either (mice I haven't owned anyway). Just looks like it may be right for you. Not sure about the grip though, looks pretty comfy IMO.


----------



## Penguana

I got a few questions:

Firstly, if you could have any mouse in the world, what would you get? Need suggestions, really, I don't know what to get. I posted on here before with a list of my preferences but that was a while ago and no one really responded (cant be bothered to check now, and I wanna try and get a broad range of opinions). Also, if it's not too much to ask, what would you get from the following list (if your chosen one mouse in the world is not on here):

-Deathadder 3.5g/ black edition
-G400
-G9x
-SS Sensei
-Imperator 4g
-M60
-Kova+
-Zowie AM
-SS Kana
-Ghost m8000x
-G700

I'm a low sensitivity player, and lift my mouse alot (although I can fix the deathadder with the magic tape on the sensor trick) and I can use any grip, really don't care. Prefer no prediction, I don't really notice it in game but I'd at least like to be able to turn it off.

Secondly, why is it that people seem to always recommend optical over laser for gaming (at least FPS gaming)? I understand laser mice have slight acceleration issues, but some you can remove it via software and games like CS:S have a raw input option in the menu etc. Surely the acceleration (all <5% of it, or some pathetic figure like that) can't instantly render all laser mice absolutely useless for fps?

I do apologise for posting twice, I posted then realised I had just posted beforehand and can't figure out how to delete an entire post.


----------



## bajchi

naga hands down unless u have huge hands


----------



## EVILNOK

If my Deathadder 3.5g stopped working today I'd want another 1. Even if I could choose from any mouse on the market. Out of all the mice I've bought and used over the years it is my favorite. For someone with fairly large hands it feels really comfortable and is a great mouse.


----------



## Sony Oengui

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penguana*
> 
> Surely the acceleration (all <5% of it, or some pathetic figure like that) can't instantly render all laser mice absolutely useless for fps?


Yes, it can. At least for me and CS 1.6. In such high precision games, you don't aim. You see a target, you move your mouse and click. You hand eye coordination needs to be perfect. Its like juggling. You don't look at each ball and grab it, you just know where they are and assume their trajectory.
Mouse acceleration would be like some one screwing around with the balls in mid air.


----------



## Glymbol

I would take G400.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penguana*
> 
> Secondly, why is it that people seem to always recommend optical over laser for gaming (at least FPS gaming)? I understand laser mice have slight acceleration issues, but some you can remove it via software and games like CS:S have a raw input option in the menu etc. Surely the acceleration (all <5% of it, or some pathetic figure like that) can't instantly render all laser mice absolutely useless for fps?


Laser mice aren't absolutely useless for FPS, but optical are slightly better. Why would someone want worse (even by small margin) and probably more expensive mouse?


----------



## Gunkers

Pretty much set on a Black DeathAdder. Read additional thoughts. Otherwise is there another mouse that I should get based on what I want.

*
1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip, but virtually adaptable to any kind of mouse that fits what I need.
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Very sensitive, 3200 DPI on my current malfunctioning Kinzu.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Would like it under $70 dollars, but will spend up to $100.
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Nice, but not necessary. Coming from a current Kinzu user.
*5. What games do you play?*
SC2, CS:S, BF3, LoL. However, if game preference comes in to play, SC2 would be at highest priority. I would like a mouse that is "known" for being well suited for RTSs.
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I do not like the current mouse acceleration that exists on my Kinzu.
*7. Other relevant information:*

I've gone through countless of mice, but I haven't tried a Razer DeathAdder because of the reputation it holds for various issues. My friend has the first DeathAdder for years now and had no problem with it. I used it and like the feel. I've had Mionix, Kinzu, Logitech G5 (favorite mouse of all time, but dead senor after... 6 years of great usage), G500, and dozens of Microsoft/Acer/Stock Mice. Now what are the chances of getting a faulty DeathAdder or ecountering a problem with them? I will be buying a Black DeathAdder when this post is 8hrs old based on what I like about it; my current Kinzu is acting up and steelseries has always failed me. Either I need to fully endorse my own decision or change the direction I'm going in.

I never lift off my mice; I wish to have a comfortable, accurate, stable and responsive mouse. I just need to hear personally is this the mouse I'm looking for?


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gunkers*
> 
> Pretty much set on a Black DeathAdder. Read additional thoughts. Otherwise is there another mouse that I should get based on what I want.
> *
> 1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip, but virtually adaptable to any kind of mouse that fits what I need.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Very sensitive, 3200 DPI on my current malfunctioning Kinzu.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> Would like it under $70 dollars, but will spend up to $100.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Nice, but not necessary. Coming from a current Kinzu user.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> SC2, CS:S, BF3, LoL. However, if game preference comes in to play, SC2 would be at highest priority. I would like a mouse that is "known" for being well suited for RTSs.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I do not like the current mouse acceleration that exists on my Kinzu.
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I've gone through countless of mice, but I haven't tried a Razer DeathAdder because of the reputation it holds for various issues. My friend has the first DeathAdder for years now and had no problem with it. I used it and like the feel. I've had Mionix, Kinzu, Logitech G5 (favorite mouse of all time, but dead senor after... 6 years of great usage), G500, and dozens of Microsoft/Acer/Stock Mice. Now what are the chances of getting a faulty DeathAdder or ecountering a problem with them? I will be buying a Black DeathAdder when this post is 8hrs old based on what I like about it; my current Kinzu is acting up and steelseries has always failed me. Either I need to fully endorse my own decision or change the direction I'm going in.
> I never lift off my mice; I wish to have a comfortable, accurate, stable and responsive mouse. I just need to hear personally is this the mouse I'm looking for?


I would say the Mionix Naos probably the most comfortable mouse out there and I can say, owning a Death Adder, it's more of a palm grip mouse if that really matters, it's a really nice all the same. Maybe look at the Naga. I use it because I love the number pad on the side, at least give it a look.


----------



## Gunkers

Quote:


> I would say the Mionix Naos probably the most comfortable mouse out there and I can say, owning a Death Adder, it's more of a palm grip mouse if that really matters, it's a really nice all the same. Maybe look at the Naga. I use it because I love the number pad on the side, at least give it a look.


Forgot to mention I owned a Naga when I played WoW. I sold it after I quit, however it was a very good mouse in terms of performance. It was a tad uncomfortable especially for FPS (I tend to switch grips); my hands are so long and lengthy, fingertipping was difficult. As for the Mionix. I owned a 3200 and it was amazing in terms of comfort. However, it suffered from deceleration that was very prevalent and I felt as if the mouse buttons weren't responding fast enough, as it would take a while for each mouse button to spring up compared to my previous mice.

Good suggestions, but I've exhausted them; are there any others you could recommend?


----------



## Lompang

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, but I am looking for a claw-grip mouse, because It's praised for better control than palm users.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Fairly medium-low. Examples are 2.0 in CS 1.6 and CSS.
3. What's your maximum budget?
Around $50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Standard 2 side buttons would be nice, anything more is not needed.
5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6/CSS/Third Person Shooters/Dota/HoN/Warcraft 3
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I would not want prediction or huge acceleration in the mouse.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Only thing I'm looking for is a relative low LOD and a fairly low-medium weight as long it's lighter than the DeathAdder I'm using which is pretty darn heavy compared to the Microsoft WMO/IE.


----------



## Genkaz92

1. What's your grip style?

My grip style appears to be a middleground between finger and claw. The bottom of my palm is firmly touching the butt of the mouse, with my fingers being slightly curved and holding it with a "german three".

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium-high, medium-medium
My sensitivity in TF2 is 3.62 at 450 DPI, with the resolution of 16:9, 1920x1080, at 90 fov ingame officially (even though the ratio makes it somewhere around 106 FOV according to a number of guides)

3. What's your maximum budget?

Within the range of 50-60 bucks, maybe higher if it is completely necessary.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

2-3 additional buttons would be more the enough for me.

5. What games do you play?

Quake Live, TF2, StarCraft2(not as active), various random shooters.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I do not want it to have anything movement altering whatsoever, including acceleration of any kind or prediction.

7. Other relevant information:.

I am looking for a mouse which emphasizes and revolves itself around the ergonomics. I would prefer the lightest possible weight, something comparable to the Intellimouse 3.0 which I am currently using. I personally dislike braided cables, therefore something smooth or rubbery would be significantly nicer, and preferably something with more flexibility then a shower hose (if I were to mention a few braided cables). I do not particularly care about its aesthetics or covering, as long as the covering is not genuinely crippling (such as being extremely slippery or having poisonous spikes mounted at the mouse buttons.) Having the best possible sensor is also quite important to me.


----------



## Glymbol

Gunkers, read about CM Storm Spawn. It's a great mouse for SC2. It has some issues but for your preferences is should be good.


----------



## Fuxx

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip, but I sometimes tend to go over using a claw grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use a medium sensitivity, about 10 cm for a 360 degree turn.

3. What's your maximum budget?
I'd feel comfortable with something around $50.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary as I currently play without them, but I don't know, they may be helpful.

5. What games do you play?
Mostly Urban Terror and Natural Selection 2, first being a FPS that started off as a mod for Quake 3 and is its own game now, second being some mix of FPS and RTS that is still in beta phase, many of you may know Natural Selection 1 which was a mod for Half-Life.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know if my current mouse has prediction, but it sounds like a **** thing. I want total control over my movement and aim as it is important for being good at Urban Terror. Therefore no build-in mouse acceleration and no prediction, it is important for me that the mouse is able to track my actions precisely.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
No no, never made my mind up about stuff like this. Though I have to say that when I read "button activation force" that my current mouse button is pretty hard to push, which makes it harder to aim when you shoot. That is maybe a problem. I of course want to best possible sensor available and use a cloth pad by the way, the SteelSeries Qck one.

Hope you can help me, this topic is way too big to understand after reading a couple of hours in an online forum, at least for me. But I do see that here are lots of people with competence and therefore are hoping for your advice.


----------



## Fuxx

**** this, I just ordered the Zowie AM. Hope it was a good decision.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fuxx*
> 
> **** this, I just ordered the Zowie AM. Hope it was a good decision.


You did. I was in the same boat as you but I am a lot more picky about mice than you judging from your post and I love it. The best mouse that I have ever owned hands down.







I just wish that it was shaped a little bit more like the Xai since the sides of the mouse are shaped like / \ so your fingers need to get used to a slightly firmer grip.

When I say they are shaped like this

/ \

I do not mean that the mouse is shaped like that from a bird's eye view. If you were to put your chin on the table that the mouse is sitting on and look at the mouse head-on or look at the mouse from behind, the sides would have that shape. It is not nearly as steep as the slashes are that I am using to illustrate it and you it is difficult to see it, but you can feel it. If you have tried a Xai then you will know that the sides of that have a slight inward curve towards the bottom that makes a little "handle" for your fingers and makes it easy to lift.

The Xai is shaped sort of like this (from the same view from before)

/ \
\ /

So it has a very slight curve inward on the sides of the mouse that make it easy to lift up. The only problem with the mouse though is that the sensor has 5% acceleration and is a laser so it doesn't like cloth pads and if you like very light mice it weighs in at about 98g. That is a little heavy for someone who likes lighter mice.

The Zowie AM is basically a Xai shape, just thinner and the sides have a slightly different shape but it really is not bad at all. When I first put my hand on it and needed to lift up the mouse it felt different (I don't like different, it bothers me) so it was probably worse for me than many other people on here. After using the mouse for a little while though I got used to the feel and I really could not imagine using anything else. The weight of the mouse is better (88g), the shape is near-perfect for ambidextrous mice (the only kind I will ever buy now), the clicks make a louder click noise and are SLIGHTLY harder to press that most other mice, the sensor is perfect (except for people who flip their mice past 2.8m/s, so about 0.1% of gamers I would guess) and the colors are just awesome lol. The harder to press clicks I liked a lot when I first tried out the mouse, but started to bother me after gaming for a very long time (6 hours+). Now that my fingers have gotten used to them I can click faster and more precisely than before and they are awesome!









TL;DR: Get exited for your new mouse!


----------



## Penguana

Just curious about the deathadder (3.5G)

I have a light coloured desk, and I really don't like using a mousepad. I just find that it's easier to use my desk than a mousepad, I'm a low sens player usually (sometimes bump it up a bit to try something new) and my mousepad is too small for me (need a QCK+ or something similar). So will it track on a light hard surface, because I read somewhere that it won't?


----------



## SirDrexl

*1. What's your grip style?* Claw/fingertip grip, sort of between the two

*2. What's your sensitivity?* Normally 1800

*3. What's your maximum budget?* $60-70 (US), but would prefer to go lower if possible

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, at least the 2 side buttons

*5. What games do you play?* Mostly FPS and action RPGs like the Fallouts, Mass Effects, Elder Scrolls, etc.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Not sure, but I suppose it's a bad thing?

*7. Other relevant information:* I really want a "ratcheted" scroll wheel that clicks into place when scrolling one page down, as opposed to one that spins freely. I was ready to buy a CM Storm Spawn, until I found that its wheel wasn't ratcheted. I'm replacing a G9 that I liked, and I figure I might have to just get a G9x, as it seems there are few, if any alternatives to what I want. I have fairly small hands, so I think some of the mid-sized mice that are okay with palm or claw grip will be too big. I use a dark cloth mousepad (Razer Goliathus speed) if that helps.


----------



## magek07

I hope you guys can help me choosing a new mice, because the lights from my Roccat Kova doesn't work anymore and the scroll wheel doesn't work that well anymore and sometimes it just stops working and i need to replug it.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/palm grip (somewhere between)
2. What's your sensitivity?
0-3000 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?
100 euro
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons.
5. What games do you play?
BF3, LoL (MMO, RTS and FPS)
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really, (if i can turn it off)
7. Other relevant information:
nope.








,

Magek07


----------



## vexus1k

*1. What's your grip style?* Palm but slightly fingertip like

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 35-45 cm/360

*3. What's your maximum budget?* how ever much it costs.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* at-least 1side button

*5. What games do you play?* FPS FPS FPS

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Not particularly

*7. Other relevant information:*
Mouse history:
DA: mousewheel **** - sold
EC1: white version too slippery, slightly too big - have
Sensei: amazing apart from sensor accel - money back soon
plus 6+ others which are not worth mentioning

mice I will not buy:
Logitech brand (G400 etc)
R.A.T

mice I am thinking about buying:
EC2
Kana ( Haven't heard enough about it :[ )

Stuff I need:
Good scroll wheel
no accel
mouse to track well on qck+ (navi) i.e. multi coloured surfaces
1 side button at-least


----------



## Ukkooh

1. What's your grip style?
Between palm and fingertip grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently using 1800dpi, 2 sensitivity ingame and windows sens 6/11.
Edit: I guess this is considered high sens. 10-15cm/360°

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around 100€ for the mouse and a mousepad for it.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not reguired but a plus if the mouse has them.

5. What games do you play?
CoD4, bf3 in future when i'll get a new rig. And also RPGs like the witcher and occasionally some other FPS games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
The less prediction, the better.

7. Other relevant information:
The mouse will replace my mx518, which is near its death. I want the most accurate sensor in the market coupled with around 3500 DPI if possible. And I need mousepad suggestions for the mouse also, because at the moment I'm using a crappy Allsop one which I bought for ~5€. And please no cordless suggestions.

Please mice experts of OCN help me! Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dus

1. What's your grip style?
_fingertip_

2. What's your sensitivity?
_1800ish? idk. I usually max the dpi on the mouse and turn sensitivity down in the game._

3. What's your maximum budget?
_less than $50 (US)_

4. Do you want additional buttons?
_yes, the 2 side buttons_

5. What games do you play?
_FPS_

6. Do you mind about prediction?
_i dont know what that is but i dont like the sound of it_

7. Other relevant information:
_I bought the Razer deathadder thinking that since it works for everyone else, it will work for me. It feels bulky and cheap and i'm just not smooth with it. Funny enough, i just started using a "microsoft wireless mobile mouse 4000" at work and it feels awesome. SMALL and HEAVY would be my most important preferences, and wired. I did a google search for "best fingertip mouse" and came up with the coolermaster storm spawn, any good?_


----------



## WhiteEyeTree

1. What's your grip style? Palm/Claw ( something between the two )

2. What's your sensitivity? 4-6 cm / 360

3. What's your maximum budget? Something around 60$

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yeah, at least 2 on thumb.

5. What games do you play? RPG/MMO mostly, some FPS and strategy game.

6. Do you mind about prediction? mmm, not sure of what that is but i didn't hear good thing about that

7. Other relevant information:

I was mostly looking forward buying either the Kova+ or the Lachesis, but i couldn't really decide. Wich one do you suggest ? Other options are welcome ofcourse!


----------



## wongt4

1. What's your grip style?
Kind of a fingertip-claw style where my palm rests on the butt of the mouse

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not, sure, currently using this cheap $8 mouse but I'm going to use this for starcraft so i'd say it'd be 1800+ dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 should be enough

5. What games do you play?
Looking primarily to use this for starcraft 2 but maybe some BF3

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure if this is good or not, if it helps me click my units better in starcraft or shoot people easier in BF3 sure. Using this for gaming only. I guess if it has this and can be turned off in some way if I don't like it, I wouldn't mind it

7. Other relevant information:
Want it to be well built (won't die on me randomly in like 2 months). So far I've been looking at G9x and Deathadder primarily but I'm open to other suggestions


----------



## skaterat

1. What's your grip style?
I either claw or palm, depends on the size of the mouse. (I can palm the deathadder perfectly)

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use a TON of different sensitivities, from like 100dpi to 4000.

3. What's your maximum budget?
I don't really have one

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I have to have two buttons on the left side for my thumb, and at least one more for an on the fly dpi change.

5. What games do you play?
Tons of League of legends, some tf2 and some battlefield.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer a mouse without it.

7. Other relevant information:
I really need an on the fly dpi change button. It would be great if it is really precise, like razer on the fly change, but it's not a dealbreaker. I also prefer a lightweight mouse over a heavy mouse. I was thinking maybe the mionix naos 5000, or maybe the the razer mamba, but I don't really know.


----------



## Saluu

Hey guys,

I am currently wanting to buy a new mouse, because I had to return my old one,, because it started to jitter, and the shop did not have that particular mouse in store at that moment, so I am free to buy a new one (I was not really content with that mouse anyways). So let's fill out all that details:

1. What's your grip style?
I use palm grip all of the time. I tried to claw some smaller mice, but i just does not feel right for me.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use a medium sensitivity, I believe. Usually it's somewhere between 800 and 1600 dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Like about 70€ (That's what i payed for my last mouse)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I'd like to have a side button, but if I find a mouse, that is very good in most other terms, I will take one without additional buttons, too. Dpi switch buttons are not needed, because I usually only use one sensitivity.

5. What games do you play?
I play mostly League of Legends (a Dota clone, for those of you who don't know) and from time to time some fps games, but those not so serious.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I read a lot about that this is not a con or a pro, but that it is about preference. In the past I have usedboth mice with and without acceleration, and currently I am used to predeiction I think, but if there is a mouse, which meets my other requirements and does not have prediction, I'd prefer that.

7. Acceleration:
I'd like the mouse to have no (or at least almost not noticable) acceleration. This probably means I am looking for a mouse with an optical sensor.

8. LOD:
I'd like to have a fairly low LOD, because I am recentering the mouse quite often, and thus not having to left it so high would be kinda nice.

9. Shape:
In the past I mostly used ergonomic shaped mice, but I'd like to try out ambidextrous shaped mice now.

10. Wired/Wireless:
I defenitely want the mouse to be wired.

11. Finnish:
I have used both mice with a rubber coated finnish and a glossy/plastic finnish. I have to say that on plastic mice, my hand starts to sweat quite a bit, but it's not that much of a problem, but I'd prefer rubber coated mice.

12. Drivers:
I'd prefer the mouse to work without a driver, because I am a mac user, and most of the time, there is no mac driver, so a driverless mouse will be best here I guess.

13: Mice I have used/tested so far:
- Logitech mx518:
First serious mouse I ever used. I find it quite nice, though I'd rather have a mouse without prediction. Also I am not that content with the mousewheel, it's not really that accurate (no precises clicks etc...). I am currently using this mouse.

- Steelseries Ikari laser:
I ordered this mouse and tested it, but it did not really fit my needs because the acceleartion it had was too big. Also the shape was not really perfect for me: Although it was quite comfortable, when i lay my hand on the mouse, I was holding it in a slight diagonal way, wich resulted in diagonal curser movement, when i was just aiming for horizontal/vertical movement.

- Mionix Naos 500:
I bought this mouse, but had to return it, as I mentioned above. Except for the acceleration, I was quite happy with the mouse. I liked the shape very much. However, the acceleration often made me play at higher dpi rates, as I really wanted to, because the acceleration was much less noticable at higher dpi rates. All in all, a solid mouse for me, but I'd prefer something without acceleration much more. Also as I mentioned before, I'd like to try ambidextrouse shaped mice.

14. Mice I read about and that I might like to try (maybe you could comment on those in terms of my needs):
- Steelseries Kana (Black)
- Zowie AM
- Logitech g400

14. Final words:
I hope you get an idea of what kind of mouse I am looking for and I am looking forward to your advice and your suggestions


----------



## yungtiger

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm/Fingertip, mostly.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Fairly high, but I don't have an exact number.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

No budget, but I try to be reasonable and stay in that $100-150 range, anything less is fine too.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Additional buttons would be helpful, since my keyboard has no macros (ducky shine). I'd prefer a mouse that has at least 5 buttons.

*5. What games do you play?*

I'm heavy MMO player (3-4 hours a day, probably), with some SC2 and BF3 mixed in.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Not particularly, but I would like the option to turn it off if needed.

*7. Other relevant information:*

This is the last accessory to my computer upgrade. Since I play MMOs the most, I figure macro buttons would be helpful when the games I want come out (Diablo III, GW2). Durability is also a concern, since I was looking initially at the Kova [+] and DeathAdder but saw the durability issues in both of the models.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yungtiger*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm/Fingertip, mostly.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Fairly high, but I don't have an exact number.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> No budget, but I try to be reasonable and stay in that $100-150 range, anything less is fine too.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Additional buttons would be helpful, since my keyboard has no macros (ducky shine). I'd prefer a mouse that has at least 5 buttons.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> I'm heavy MMO player (3-4 hours a day, probably), with some SC2 and BF3 mixed in.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not particularly, but I would like the option to turn it off if needed.
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> This is the last accessory to my computer upgrade. Since I play MMOs the most, I figure macro buttons would be helpful when the games I want come out (Diablo III, GW2). Durability is also a concern, since I was looking initially at the Kova [+] and DeathAdder but saw the durability issues in both of the models.


You could consider the Razer Naga, Naga Epic, or Naga Hex if you are looking for a mouse with a lot of buttons. The first two have 14 or 15 additional buttons I believe, don't have mine in front of me to count them all, and it works well for that grip style. The Naga Hex only has 8 or 9, as it has 6 on the left side instead of 12 like the previous Naga's.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saluu*
> 
> Hey guys,
> I am currently wanting to buy a new mouse, because I had to return my old one,, because it started to jitter, and the shop did not have that particular mouse in store at that moment, so I am free to buy a new one (I was not really content with that mouse anyways). So let's fill out all that details:
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I use palm grip all of the time. I tried to claw some smaller mice, but i just does not feel right for me.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I use a medium sensitivity, I believe. Usually it's somewhere between 800 and 1600 dpi.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Like about 70€ (That's what i payed for my last mouse)
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I'd like to have a side button, but if I find a mouse, that is very good in most other terms, I will take one without additional buttons, too. Dpi switch buttons are not needed, because I usually only use one sensitivity.
> 5. What games do you play?
> I play mostly League of Legends (a Dota clone, for those of you who don't know) and from time to time some fps games, but those not so serious.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I read a lot about that this is not a con or a pro, but that it is about preference. In the past I have usedboth mice with and without acceleration, and currently I am used to predeiction I think, but if there is a mouse, which meets my other requirements and does not have prediction, I'd prefer that.
> 7. Acceleration:
> I'd like the mouse to have no (or at least almost not noticable) acceleration. This probably means I am looking for a mouse with an optical sensor.
> 8. LOD:
> I'd like to have a fairly low LOD, because I am recentering the mouse quite often, and thus not having to left it so high would be kinda nice.
> 9. Shape:
> In the past I mostly used ergonomic shaped mice, but I'd like to try out ambidextrous shaped mice now.
> 10. Wired/Wireless:
> I defenitely want the mouse to be wired.
> 11. Finnish:
> I have used both mice with a rubber coated finnish and a glossy/plastic finnish. I have to say that on plastic mice, my hand starts to sweat quite a bit, but it's not that much of a problem, but I'd prefer rubber coated mice.
> 12. Drivers:
> I'd prefer the mouse to work without a driver, because I am a mac user, and most of the time, there is no mac driver, so a driverless mouse will be best here I guess.
> 13: Mice I have used/tested so far:
> - Logitech mx518:
> First serious mouse I ever used. I find it quite nice, though I'd rather have a mouse without prediction. Also I am not that content with the mousewheel, it's not really that accurate (no precises clicks etc...). I am currently using this mouse.
> - Steelseries Ikari laser:
> I ordered this mouse and tested it, but it did not really fit my needs because the acceleartion it had was too big. Also the shape was not really perfect for me: Although it was quite comfortable, when i lay my hand on the mouse, I was holding it in a slight diagonal way, wich resulted in diagonal curser movement, when i was just aiming for horizontal/vertical movement.
> - Mionix Naos 500:
> I bought this mouse, but had to return it, as I mentioned above. Except for the acceleration, I was quite happy with the mouse. I liked the shape very much. However, the acceleration often made me play at higher dpi rates, as I really wanted to, because the acceleration was much less noticable at higher dpi rates. All in all, a solid mouse for me, but I'd prefer something without acceleration much more. Also as I mentioned before, I'd like to try ambidextrouse shaped mice.
> 14. Mice I read about and that I might like to try (maybe you could comment on those in terms of my needs):
> - Steelseries Kana (Black)
> - Zowie AM
> - Logitech g400
> 14. Final words:
> I hope you get an idea of what kind of mouse I am looking for and I am looking forward to your advice and your suggestions


I play a lot of League of Legends and like my Zowie EC1 Black and am considering getting a Zowie AM. If you need/want a ambidextrous mouse I'd recommend the AM, but this is based on recommendations to me for this mouse and my experience with Zowie to this point.


----------



## 03kent70

I'm looking for a mouse that has a very accurate sensor and isn't very high/big.
1. Claw mostly.
1. High. I have a 1900x1200 24" monitor and am looknig to add a couple of 32"'s soon.
3. No budget.
4. Don't care.
5. RTS games.
6. Not too fussed as long as it is easy to control accurately. I liked the G400's sensor but it hurt my wrist due to being too tall/big.
7. I imagine I would prefer an ambidextrous shape and a mouse that isn't glossy. I'm currently using the Razer Deathadder Black Edition but find the left/right click buttons too sensitive; this is uncomfortable as it means I can't rest my fingers on the left/right click buttons. I use a PureTrak Talent mouse mat but it's too slow for my liking so I'm open to suggestions for a new mouse pad/mat. I prefer a large surface because I change my seating position quite frequently - can never seem to get comfortable







. I have quite a wide hand but don't like to arch my wrist. I disliked all the laser mice I tried but I guess I could try another one.
Mouse owned:
Razer Deathadder
Razer Deathadder Black Edition
Razer Mamba
Logitech MX510, 518, G9, G500, G400
Steelseries Xai

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ben.


----------



## Cid

*1. What's your grip stye?* Palm and Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 1400 at the moment

*3. What's your maximum budget?* I'll pay whatever it takes

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* At the very least I need two thumb-buttons, but most mice have those these days. An extra one or two buttons can't hurt in case I play an MMO though, but nothing like the gazillion buttons found on the Naga.

*5. What games do you play?* Mostly shooters (first and third person), but I also play RPGs and some other genres where your mouse doesn't really matter. No RTS, occasionally an MMO (Guild Wars 2 is most def on the list though)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* I mind terribly, and I want zero, none, zilch prediction.

*7. Other relevant information:* I'm currently still on my trusty MX518, reason I'm thinking of side-grading (you can't upgrade the MX518 man, come on) is because, in FPS I seem unable of lining up shots when the target becomes too small. The cursor will 'hop' a few pixels no matter how slowly I move the mouse, and always, _always_, the enemy is between the two points my gun keeps jumping to.

LOD-wise, I need it to keep tracking for a bit, because when the going gets tough my hand sorta cramps and I lift the left side of my mouse up. If it's the same LOD as the MX518 that's fine, but no less. The mouse shouldn't be too light, don't want to get spooked and accidentally throw my mouse halfway across the room. Needs to be wired too.

Thanks.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *03kent70*
> 
> I'm looking for a mouse that has a very accurate sensor and isn't very high/big.
> 1. Claw mostly.
> 1. High. I have a 1900x1200 24" monitor and am looknig to add a couple of 32"'s soon.
> 3. No budget.
> 4. Don't care.
> 5. RTS games.
> 6. Not too fussed as long as it is easy to control accurately. I liked the G400's sensor but it hurt my wrist due to being too tall/big.
> 7. I imagine I would prefer an ambidextrous shape and a mouse that isn't glossy. I'm currently using the Razer Deathadder Black Edition but find the left/right click buttons too sensitive; this is uncomfortable as it means I can't rest my fingers on the left/right click buttons. I use a PureTrak Talent mouse mat but it's too slow for my liking so I'm open to suggestions for a new mouse pad/mat. I prefer a large surface because I change my seating position quite frequently - can never seem to get comfortable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I have quite a wide hand but don't like to arch my wrist. I disliked all the laser mice I tried but I guess I could try another one.
> Mouse owned:
> Razer Deathadder
> Razer Deathadder Black Edition
> Razer Mamba
> Logitech MX510, 518, G9, G500, G400
> Steelseries Xai
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ben.


Try a CM Storm Spawn, if you like the shape. Latest firmware comes with a wide range (as in they cover both low and high) of CPI steps so it should suit you even for multi-monitor setups. Not sure if the buttons are too sensitive for you though - that's something you might want to get used to because apart from the Zowie line of mice, most gaming mice nowadays use Omrons, which are very easy to click.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cid*
> 
> *1. What's your grip stye?* Palm and Fingertip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* 1400 at the moment
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* I'll pay whatever it takes
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* At the very least I need two thumb-buttons, but most mice have those these days. An extra one or two buttons can't hurt in case I play an MMO though, but nothing like the gazillion buttons found on the Naga.
> *5. What games do you play?* Mostly shooters (first and third person), but I also play RPGs and some other genres where your mouse doesn't really matter. No RTS, occasionally an MMO (Guild Wars 2 is most def on the list though)
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* I mind terribly, and I want zero, none, zilch prediction.
> *7. Other relevant information:* I'm currently still on my trusty MX518, reason I'm thinking of side-grading (you can't upgrade the MX518 man, come on) is because, in FPS I seem unable of lining up shots when the target becomes too small. The cursor will 'hop' a few pixels no matter how slowly I move the mouse, and always, _always_, the enemy is between the two points my gun keeps jumping to.
> LOD-wise, I need it to keep tracking for a bit, because when the going gets tough my hand sorta cramps and I lift the left side of my mouse up. If it's the same LOD as the MX518 that's fine, but no less. The mouse shouldn't be too light, don't want to get spooked and accidentally throw my mouse halfway across the room. Needs to be wired too.
> Thanks.


A good substitute for the Mx518 with the characteristics you described would be a DeathAdder (3.5G or BE, depends on your preference on material), if you like the shape. You would need to lower a bit your sensitivity (best step for the DA is 1800CPI), but that's more a less it.

I find it funny that you dislike prediction but you're currently using a Mx518, which is notorious for it's great amount of it


----------



## Cid

Yeah, that's why I'm looking for a new one, for most of its life the prediction didn't bother me because I wasn't good enough for it to hamper me or for me to even notice it. But now I need it gone.







I'll look into the DeathAdder, thanks. None of the shoddy Razer build quality in that one?


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cid*
> 
> Yeah, that's why I'm looking for a new one, for most of its life the prediction didn't bother me because I wasn't good enough for it to hamper me or for me to even notice it. But now I need it gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll look into the DeathAdder, thanks. None of the shoddy Razer build quality in that one?


You could also look into the Naga Hex, has 6 side buttons instead of the 12 on the other models. And the shoddy Razer quality, basically it's hit or miss as with all of their products. I haven't had issues with my Naga or Mamba, but hadn't logged a lot of hours on either. These days you get what you pay for, and even then it's questionable. Gotta love the days of QA being done by the customer, saves them money I suppose.


----------



## TheYonderGod

1. What's your grip style?
Looking at the pictures in this the 'read this first' thread, it looks like I use a claw grip but my fingers aren't curved that much, they're more like the fingertip grip picture

2. What's your sensitivity?
windows setting is 6, BF3(that's the only game I really play right now) setting is pretty low, I have no idea what this mouse's DPI is (it's just a cheap ~$10 Logitech I found somewhere years ago)

3. What's your maximum budget?
around $50, I don't really have any money I _should_ be spending on a mouse, so cheaper is better if possible

4. Do you want additional buttons?
a couple is good, I don't play MMOs so I don't need tons though

5. What games do you play?
Just BF3 atm, other FPSs in the future. I really hope I don't get addicted to another MMO again (wasted so much of my life on Runescape for like 6 or 7 years and it's not even good...) Other games too but FPSs are the most important.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have no idea, optional or none at all would be ideal I think, but I really have no idea.

7. Other relevant information:
This is going to be my first "real" mouse, so I don't know what to expect. My brother-in-law has a Deathadder and a Zowie EC2 so I'm going to try those out when I go over there, possibly this weekend. I don't know if I should just get whichever of those I like better or go with a different suggestion if I get one here.

You can recommend me a mouse pad too if it's really cheap. I just use mine on my wooden desk atm.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Looking at the pictures in this the 'read this first' thread, it looks like I use a claw grip but my fingers aren't curved that much, they're more like the fingertip grip picture
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> windows setting is 6, BF3(that's the only game I really play right now) setting is pretty low, I have no idea what this mouse's DPI is (it's just a cheap ~$10 Logitech I found somewhere years ago)
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> around $50, I don't really have any money I _should_ be spending on a mouse, so cheaper is better if possible
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> a couple is good, I don't play MMOs so I don't need tons though
> 5. What games do you play?
> Just BF3 atm, other FPSs in the future. I really hope I don't get addicted to another MMO again (wasted so much of my life on Runescape for like 6 or 7 years and it's not even good...) Other games too but FPSs are the most important.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I have no idea, optional or none at all would be ideal I think, but I really have no idea.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> This is going to be my first "real" mouse, so I don't know what to expect. My brother-in-law has a Deathadder and a Zowie EC2 so I'm going to try those out when I go over there, possibly this weekend. I don't know if I should just get whichever of those I like better or go with a different suggestion if I get one here.
> You can recommend me a mouse pad too if it's really cheap. I just use mine on my wooden desk atm.


If either of those feel perfect to you then by all means go with one of those. There is no better way to find the right mouse than by trying them. I currently use the Zowie EC1 and really like it (I have a grip similar to yours from the description). I like the Naga and am considering getting a Hex and Zowie AM to try, and possible another to find the best fit for me. Unfortunately I don't have the rep to sell on OCN yet so I'm aiming to get it up and sell some of the stuff I no longer need









Anyways, good luck sir


----------



## Vortex Shade

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity? Mostly have it set to 2800 DPI in gaming profile (in setpoint, currently using a G9)

3. What's your maximum budget? AU $100 ish max

4. Do you want additional buttons? Would prefer atleast 2 side buttons, other than that not bothered, a few extra can't hurt.

5. What games do you play? Just about everything, but mainly MMO's, RPG's, FPS. (Dungeons and Dragons online, Wow, Aion, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (when it comes out), CoD, Fear 2/3 to name a few.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Not sure, haven't really looked into, not sure if the G9 I'm using now has it or not.

7. Other relevant information: Adjustable weight would be nice. Want a new mouse because the "skin" on the changeable shells on the G9 is peeling off everywhere and can't get replacements in Aus.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vortex Shade*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Mostly have it set to 2800 DPI in gaming profile (in setpoint, currently using a G9)
> 3. What's your maximum budget? AU $100 ish max
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Would prefer atleast 2 side buttons, other than that not bothered, a few extra can't hurt.
> 5. What games do you play? Just about everything, but mainly MMO's, RPG's, FPS. (Dungeons and Dragons online, Wow, Aion, Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 (when it comes out), CoD, Fear 2/3 to name a few.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not sure, haven't really looked into, not sure if the G9 I'm using now has it or not.
> 7. Other relevant information: Adjustable weight would be nice. Want a new mouse because the "skin" on the changeable shells on the G9 is peeling off everywhere and can't get replacements in Aus.


If you want more than two side buttons, consider the Naga Hex. It doesn't have as high of a learning curve as the Naga Epic, but still has more side buttons (6 of them).


----------



## Rijndael

First of all, i'm going to say that i'm currently using a 3-year old Adder and have been using a Logitech G5 before it conked out. So most of my answers will be because that's the only mouse shape i've used. I also use a goliathus speed for my pad.

*1. What's your grip style?*
_I'm thinking something in between palm and claw. My palm is completely flat on the mose, but fingers are slightly bent._

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
_Low sens. I use 1800 dpi n my DA with win sens at 6. I usually end up dragging the sensitivity bar on most game to around 1-3 bars._

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
_Not really an issue but i guess $100 would be max for me._

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
_The thing about extra buttons is i do want to use them, but the buttons on the DA feel flimsy that i can't use them well._

*5. What games do you play?*
_Mostly lots of top down stuff. Big priority on MoBAs and Diablo 3._

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
_Yes, need it off._

*7. Other relevant information:*
_My biggest priorities would probably be, no pred, zero acceleration, and a high control speed. Wired would be nice as i don't care for wireless anyway. Low LOD would probably be a good thing too since i play ridiculously low sens.

I've been reading some articles on the net and the info i get is that i should stay away from laser sensors. I can' seem to find a good optical mouse with the specs i put up though.

As much as i love my adder the rubberized top is starting to melt, and the flimsy side buttons are really starting to annoy me._

EDIT: Added LOD requirement.


----------



## sauron_pk

*1. What's your grip style?*
Something between claw and grip, not exactly the claw but not exactly the grip style. It's a mix of both.
*
2. What's your sensitivity?*
Windows default, in game 3 sensitivity.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
u$s 50

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yeah two buttons at least

*5. What games do you play?*
CS 1.6, TFC, TF2, CS Source.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Yeah

*7. Other relevant information:*
1000 Hz usb poll rate default or set by and overclocker program.
I want a optical mouse to use with a cloth pad. I really hate laser mouse


----------



## unfriend

*1. What's your grip style?*
Mostly Palm, sometimes Fingertip. I have fairly large hands. I currently own a Razer DeathAdder 3g, and it is a perfect fit for my hand.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Honestly unsure. I don't really fiddle around with it too much. For example when I firtst booted up my sig rig a few days ago, I just plugged in the DeathAdder, and am happy with where the sensitivity is right now without making adjustments.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
None provided the mouse is worth the price.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
5 Buttons have done the job so far, so I cannot think of a reason to increase more. R/L, Scroll, and 2 by the thumb for website navigation work just fine for me.

*5. What games do you play?*
LoL, some RTS, RPG, and will be spending a large quantity of time on D3 upon release.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Not really one way or the other.

*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.*
Nothing really necessary in the extras department. I have a friend who went from the DeathAdder to the Mamba, and he loves it, but I have had bad luck with wireless mice in the past.

*In Summary:*

You guys may simply recommend I stick with the DeathAdder, and if so, I am ok with that, but with new mice coming out all the time I wanted to see about other, possibly better options. Thanks for the time and help.


----------



## ubernewhacks

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 mainly
3. What's your maximum budget?
A $70 suggestion and unlimited budget suggestion would be nice
4. Do you want additional buttons?
In addition to pressing down on the scroll wheel at least 2 side buttons
5. What games do you play?
League of Legends and MW3 so RTS and FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have a MX518 with prediction which I bought without knowing it had prediction. If prediction is bad then I don't want it. I also have had times sniping where getting right on a headshot is jerky (although that might be sensitivity) so if I should switch then I can
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Driverless is better but not necessary. Shape similar to MX518 would be nice but not that important. Weight lighter/medium, the option to turn off and on prediction could be nice. MX518 has been my mouse of choice for ages. I have a Razer Imperator and I don't like it as much and also notice the lift up and drop down combination makes the cursor move to the bottom right of the screen.


----------



## zerk1

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?
around 100$, could go a little higher if it's worth it
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I'm currently using the Razer Copperhead and I like the button setup. There are 2 buttons on the left and right side of the mouse
5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 3 only
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No
7. Other relevant information:
I'd like to be able to adjust the weight, though this isn't THAT important. The reason I'm buying a new mouse is simply cause my copperhead is old and faulty now. My main priority is comfort.

Thanks


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rijndael*
> 
> First of all, i'm going to say that i'm currently using a 3-year old Adder and have been using a Logitech G5 before it conked out. So most of my answers will be because that's the only mouse shape i've used. I also use a goliathus speed for my pad.
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> _I'm thinking something in between palm and claw. My palm is completely flat on the mose, but fingers are slightly bent._
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> _Low sens. I use 1800 dpi n my DA with win sens at 6. I usually end up dragging the sensitivity bar on most game to around 1-3 bars._
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> _Not really an issue but i guess $100 would be max for me._
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> _The thing about extra buttons is i do want to use them, but the buttons on the DA feel flimsy that i can't use them well._
> *5. What games do you play?*
> _Mostly lots of top down stuff. Big priority on MoBAs and Diablo 3._
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> _Yes, need it off._
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> _My biggest priorities would probably be, no pred, zero acceleration, and a high control speed. Wired would be nice as i don't care for wireless anyway. Low LOD would probably be a good thing too since i play ridiculously low sens.
> I've been reading some articles on the net and the info i get is that i should stay away from laser sensors. I can' seem to find a good optical mouse with the specs i put up though.
> As much as i love my adder the rubberized top is starting to melt, and the flimsy side buttons are really starting to annoy me._
> EDIT: Added LOD requirement.


If you play a lot of MOBAs, then you'll probably like the Naga Hex from Razer. My friend just bought the mouse to use with Diablo 3 and GW2, and I use it for League of Legends.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unfriend*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Mostly Palm, sometimes Fingertip. I have fairly large hands. I currently own a Razer DeathAdder 3g, and it is a perfect fit for my hand.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Honestly unsure. I don't really fiddle around with it too much. For example when I firtst booted up my sig rig a few days ago, I just plugged in the DeathAdder, and am happy with where the sensitivity is right now without making adjustments.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> None provided the mouse is worth the price.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 5 Buttons have done the job so far, so I cannot think of a reason to increase more. R/L, Scroll, and 2 by the thumb for website navigation work just fine for me.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> LoL, some RTS, RPG, and will be spending a large quantity of time on D3 upon release.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not really one way or the other.
> *7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.*
> Nothing really necessary in the extras department. I have a friend who went from the DeathAdder to the Mamba, and he loves it, but I have had bad luck with wireless mice in the past.
> *In Summary:*
> You guys may simply recommend I stick with the DeathAdder, and if so, I am ok with that, but with new mice coming out all the time I wanted to see about other, possibly better options. Thanks for the time and help.


SInce you have large hands the Logitech G9x may work for you as it has two shells for the body, a wider one and a slimmer one. The buttons are a little sensitive so if you like that then this may be up your alley. The Razer Mamba is decent too, and can be hooked up with the charging cable to be used as a wired mouse so you don't need to use the wireless option.


----------



## Emissary of Pain

Hey all ...

I am looking at getting a new mouse ... I just bought the Storm Sentinel Zero-G and it suuuuucks ...

The option I have is the Corsair m60, Roccat Kova+ and the G9X ...

I have really large hands and use a claw grip ... My current mouse pad is the Roccat Sota

All advice would be greatly appreciated.
kind Regards.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emissary of Pain*
> 
> Hey all ...
> I am looking at getting a new mouse ... I just bought the Storm Sentinel Zero-G and it suuuuucks ...
> The option I have is the Corsair m60, Roccat Kova+ and the G9X ...
> I have really large hands and use a claw grip ... My current mouse pad is the Roccat Sota
> All advice would be greatly appreciated.
> kind Regards.


I can't speak to the m60 or the kova, but the g9x is a nice mouse, albeit the right and left mouse button are a little sensitive for me. But I do enjoy using it when not using my Zowie AM or Naga Hex.


----------



## Emissary of Pain

I have heard that the G9x is a great mouse ... very small though and it feels cheaply built ... is this true ?


----------



## sojoe

I have big hands to, and have recently bought the Kova+ and Sensei, to replace my aging G9.

*Kova+* is pretty nice, however it's too slim for my hands and I have given up using it because it puts too much strain on my palms.

*Sensei* well I have problems with the profiles and support has been useless so far, they update my ticket once a week with new redundant questions and suggestions, SteelSeries is really getting on my nerves. The mouse is pretty great in shape and form and the sensor is silky smooth really nice for desktop use. I reckon I will ship it back to them though just in spite.

Currently looking at the Naga Hex, I am just afraid that my thumb will 'land' too far ahead of the 6 buttons. I couldn't really use the G700 thumb buttons very well because they where too far back for me.

Anyone here using the Naga hex with big hands?


----------



## sojoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emissary of Pain*
> 
> I have heard that the G9x is a great mouse ... very small though and it feels cheaply built ... is this true ?


I feel that it it's pretty well build. The only problems is that Logitech cheaps out on the secondary buttons like the thumb buttons and wheel buttons using cheap membrane switches with poor feedback. The freewheeling wheel is a **** idea because when in non-freewheel mode it's almost impossible to press it without turning the wheel.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sojoe*
> 
> I have big hands to, and have recently bought the Kova+ and Sensei, to replace my aging G9.
> *Kova+* is pretty nice, however it's too slim for my hands and I have given up using it because it puts too much strain on my palms.
> *Sensei* well I have problems with the profiles and support has been useless so far, they update my ticket once a week with new redundant questions and suggestions, SteelSeries is really getting on my nerves. The mouse is pretty great in shape and form and the sensor is silky smooth really nice for desktop use. I reckon I will ship it back to them though just in spite.
> Currently looking at the Naga Hex, I am just afraid that my thumb will 'land' too far ahead of the 6 buttons. I couldn't really use the G700 thumb buttons very well because they where too far back for me.
> Anyone here using the Naga hex with big hands?


If you have large hands the Hex will probably be too small for you, and you'll have the 6-button issue that you mention. Mine rests a little ahead of the rest there, around the 1 and 2 key, but they aren't hard to avoid pressing. But I have small hands, so the extra buttons may be harder for you to press.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sojoe*
> 
> I feel that it it's pretty well build. The only problems is that Logitech cheaps out on the secondary buttons like the thumb buttons and wheel buttons using cheap membrane switches with poor feedback. The freewheeling wheel is a **** idea because when in non-freewheel mode it's almost impossible to press it without turning the wheel.


The G9x has its pros and cons, like all other mouses.


----------



## sojoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> The G9x has its pros and cons, like all other mouses.


Yes pardon if I sounded too negative there, the G9 has been my mainstay since its release, and I am pretty picky when it comes to my hardware especially my input devices, so yeah it's overall a great mouse.

Thanks for the heads up on the Naga, too bad though, I really don't know where to turn now except perhaps the RAT7 MMO.


----------



## Djankie

The G9x is my favourite mouse, however, it has one drawback: the middle mouse button.


----------



## sojoe

IMO, the Sensei actually has great buttons, smooth tactile operation on all of them (all of them microswitches). The Kova+ is pretty nice also in that regard, with microswitches on everything except the mousewheel, but it's designed pretty well and still easy to use.

It's a bit funny because my ancient Logitech MX510 has microswitches on every button including the mousewheel, and all of them are tactile and easily pressed. I don't know about the new G400 or even the MX518, but the G9 and G700 is a big step back in that regard. It's just that the G9's shape is absolutely perfect for fingertip grip, perfect width and everything, and it's quite durable.


----------



## Riou

G9x feels quite nice for fingertip.


----------



## Emissary of Pain

hey all

All this time I thought I was a full claw grip ... but last night my friend said to me that I am in fact a fingertip grip ...

Here is a pic ... could someone tell me what exactly I am using ...



Also ... how hard are the buttons on the M60 and what are the dimentions


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emissary of Pain*
> 
> hey all
> All this time I thought I was a full claw grip ... but last night my friend said to me that I am in fact a fingertip grip ...
> Here is a pic ... could someone tell me what exactly I am using ...
> 
> Also ... how hard are the buttons on the M60 and what are the dimentions


looks like a half half?


----------



## Emissary of Pain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie*
> 
> looks like a half half?


Oh joy ... I'm a hybrid ... haha ... So what would i look for in a mouse ?? ... Do I look for more claw or more finger ?? ... ... The mouse in the pic is a Sentinel Zero-G ... apparently it is a big mouse but I find it incredibly uncomfortable ...

So I am in the process of maybe getting the M60 instead but I have heard that it doesn't perform so well on hybrid mouse pads (hard surface but flexible)


----------



## Emissary of Pain

I know this is a double post ... but I did it to bump the thread as well ...

Does anyone here know how soft the button clicks are on the M60 ?... I use Back and Forward a ton in games and I need them to be super easily activated at high DPI without my aiming going to hell trying to press them


----------



## xinn3r

1. What's your grip style?
Palm & Claw, both are OK

2. What's your sensitivity?
In Windows, the default 6th bar
Using an Orochi, 1500 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 buttons on each side if possible

5. What games do you play?
Mostly DotA, and occasional CS, SC II, Crysis, Diablo, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really

7. Other relevant information:
Changing Profiles, on-the-fly if possible.
I saw my friends Lachesis can do this, like
Green = Gaming
Yellow = Browsing

I know this sounds lame, but I want glowing lights, because I am not a hardcore gamer, so I actually want the gimmick's








Light color changeable if possible

The best I found for my criteria is the SteelSeries Sensei
I would've bought the Lachesis, but I don't think the shape is desirable


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xinn3r*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm & Claw, both are OK
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> In Windows, the default 6th bar
> Using an Orochi, 1500 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 buttons on each side if possible
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly DotA, and occasional CS, SC II, Crysis, Diablo, etc.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Changing Profiles, on-the-fly if possible.
> I saw my friends Lachesis can do this, like
> Green = Gaming
> Yellow = Browsing
> I know this sounds lame, but I want glowing lights, because I am not a hardcore gamer, so I actually want the gimmick's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Light color changeable if possible
> The best I found for my criteria is the SteelSeries Sensei
> I would've bought the Lachesis, but I don't think the shape is desirable


The Zowie AM fits some of your criteria but it doesn't light up as much as its predecessors.


----------



## arphid

I'm interested to know if there's something better for me than the IME 3.0, as I'm getting tired of its build quality, especially the awful mouse wheel and thumb buttons.

Things I care about:

No prediction
Optical (or works well on a cloth surfaces)
Low DPI option
Low LOD
Good button positioning/action
Sturdy
Inexpensive
I don't really care about on-the-fly sens/profile changing or grip style. I mostly play FPS games like call of duty, counterstrike, TF2 etc. I'll just suck it up if the IME is the best for my needs. I don't like Razer products (I've tried the DeathAdder). Considering the G400 v2. Thanks!


----------



## dylwing23

1. What's your grip style?
-Palm/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
-currently using 1800dpi, very happy with it

3. What's your maximum budget?
~$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
-not important, but 2 side buttons would be nice(along with the scroll click/normal buttons)

5. What games do you play?
-Mainly RTS and FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
-Doesn't affect me

7. Other relevant information:
-Mainly looking for wired, right handed, and good design. Also, LOD/weight doesn't affect me in any way.


----------



## ubernewhacks

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 mainly
3. What's your maximum budget?
A $70 suggestion and unlimited budget suggestion would be nice
4. Do you want additional buttons?
In addition to pressing down on the scroll wheel at least 2 side buttons
5. What games do you play?
League of Legends and MW3 so RTS and FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have a MX518 with prediction which I bought without knowing it had prediction. If prediction is bad then I don't want it. I also have had times sniping where getting right on a headshot is jerky (although that might be sensitivity) so if I should switch then I can
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Driverless is better but not necessary. Shape similar to MX518 would be nice but not that important. Weight lighter/medium, the option to turn off and on prediction could be nice. MX518 has been my mouse of choice for ages. I have a Razer Imperator and I don't like it as much and also notice the lift up and drop down combination makes the cursor move to the bottom right of the screen.
(Bumped since no response)


----------



## shigen

1. What's your grip style?
- Dont really have any. Its something between fingertip and palm grip, def not claw grip. Something i've developed over the years.

2. What's your sensitivity?
- In game? I play starcraft 2, so its basically my dpi/cpi which is 800 at the moment. Windows sensitivity is set to 6/11

3. What's your maximum budget?
- 1-80 euros

4. Do you want additional buttons?
-Thumb side buttons would be nice, not neccessary.

5. What games do you play?
- SC2 at the moment.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
- I've been MX510/518 user for ever, so i dont mind it at all.

Size, cord, lod and all other stuff doesnt matter at all. I just would love to get a mouse with 800-1000dpi which has good sensor and is something like mx518 or G1.


----------



## G1itch

*1. What's your grip style?*
I think i fingertip a but, but i really believe I palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
New pc gaming... Is this changeable?

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Would like to keep it under $70

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
If computer game pro's don't use them, then no. If useful I guess.

*5. What games do you play?*
SC2 and CS

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Im not exactly sure what this is, prediction sounds bad. But whatevers best.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Is there any good mouse that is great (not mediocre) for both CS and SC2?


----------



## Cosmic Collision

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

No particular preference, but a wide range would best

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$120

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

At least 4 that are easily reachable

*5. What games do you play?*

Shooters and the odd RPG. Playing Diablo 3 now which is why I really want some extra buttons

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes, or no if it can be disabled

*7. Other relevant information:*

Not too gamey looking, please


----------



## RiderofDark

1. What's your grip style?

Finger/palm hybrid grip. I prefer the finger grip, but my current mouse, the Logitech G7, leans to the palm grip because the thumb button is too far forward to easily access with my finger grip form.

2. What's your sensitivity?

High sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?

$150 USD max.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Back button and side-scrolling wheel, at the very minimum.

5. What games do you play?

Skyrim, Minecraft, Evochron Mercenary, Miner Wars, City of Heroes, and Wing Commander Saga.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I'm not sure. I've been using the Logitech G7 for years now, and I don't know if it has prediction or not.

7. Other relevant information:

I want wireless, and something that's at least an equal to my current mouse. I despise mouse cords, particularly for the drag that's created by them.

I currently have my eyes set on the Cyborg R.A.T. 9, but I'd like to know what other options are for wireless gamer mice. Doing a search through google doesn't reveal all of the possibilities open to me, and I'd at least like to know. Ya know?


----------



## metal571

shigen - G400.

G1itch - Razer DeathAdder Black Edition.

Cosmic Collision - G700 or RAT9

RiderofDark - yeah, you had it right. RAT9 sounds best.

arphid - G400 sounds best. strict rules there. i was thinking 3.0 or the WMO 1.1A otherwise, not much of a choice in terms of opticals these days.

dylwing23 - you're basically describing a DeathAdder 3.5G. i recommend the Black Edition, specifically. Look at the Steelseries Kana also.

ubernewhacks - honestly, i had some time with the Imperator 4G and it seemed a LOT better in terms of the PTE bug on liftoff that everyone hates. the dual sensor arrangement really minimizes that issue. try the 4G. can't really think of anything else other than the Lachesis but that has the PTE bug still. then again i'm a palmer so i don't know as much about claw stuff.


----------



## wonkabar

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I had been using 3500 DPI on a 17" monitor but recently upgraded to a 23", so 3500 is a little slower than what I'm used to, but I'd consider anything 3200 DPI and up.

3. What's your maximum budget?
None. I want a good, quality mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I've never had them before, but a 4th and 5th button could be useful.

5. What games do you play?
StarCraft II and League of Legends.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd really rather not have prediction!

7. Other relevant information:
I typically find ambidextrous shapes to be the most comfortable.


----------



## carrita

1. What's your grip style?

Claw grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

Between 400-2000 dpi's depends on the game

3. What's your maximum budget?

60-70 €

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At least 4 that are easily reachable

5. What games do you play?

I usually play cod, battlefield, max payne 3, guild wars 2, tf2, css

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes, or no if it can be disabled

7. Other relevant information:

I prefer a wired mouse

I was thinking about buying the razer imperator or wait to taipan


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonkabar*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I had been using 3500 DPI on a 17" monitor but recently upgraded to a 23", so 3500 is a little slower than what I'm used to, but I'd consider anything 3200 DPI and up.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> None. I want a good, quality mouse.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I've never had them before, but a 4th and 5th button could be useful.
> 5. What games do you play?
> StarCraft II and League of Legends.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd really rather not have prediction!
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I typically find ambidextrous shapes to be the most comfortable.


Honestly I'd recommend the Steelseries Sensei.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carrita*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Between 400-2000 dpi's depends on the game
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 60-70 €
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 4 that are easily reachable
> 5. What games do you play?
> I usually play cod, battlefield, max payne 3, guild wars 2, tf2, css
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, or no if it can be disabled
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I prefer a wired mouse
> 
> I was thinking about buying the razer imperator or wait to taipan


Consider the Steelseries Kana or Sensei, Logitech G9X, or the Razer Imperator 4G or Taipan.


----------



## txzar

1. What's your grip style?
seems either palm or fingertip pending how stressed I am.

2. What's your sensitivity?
800 most of the time

3. What's your maximum budget?
100.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just the typical extra ones needed for FPS gaming.

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure.

7. Other relevant information:
Currently using a Reaper Edge(red-1000) Ideazon.
I do have larger hands so nothing small please.
Using a Ripper XL pad. Feel free to suggest a different pad if needed.


----------



## pruik6

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/fingertip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 600 800 dpi
depends of the weight of the mouse for me ,the more heavy the more dpi of the three

3. What's your maximum budget?
I don't care i want pay a lot for the best of the best parts of a mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I prefer not to have it.

5. What games do you play?
Rts games 90% of the games i play -Starcraft 2 and all other base building rts games.
Fps games left 10% Just battlefield for fun or Counter strike for a challenge

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I prefer to not have it, but i not really mind it and not really feel it in game. Only i see it in paint .

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc:
Rubber sides for good grip and non glossy top.
Good low LOD.
Very thin flexibel strong cabel or braided.
Omron mouseclick i prefer the most. or another very good click.
button activation force i prefer a click thats little bit higher so the button of the shell must lifted a little bit more then ussual,otherwise you feel the down shell to much .
I prefer driverless ,changing setting without making the mouse more heavy.

I really want a ambidextrous mouse very tiny low weighted , but very good quality like a high end mouse. (they mostly make shell everything feels cheaper then a big mouse)


----------



## lognoronon

1. What's your grip style?
I usually just adjust to whatever mouse I'm using.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Depends on the mouse so as long as I can adjust it I'm good

3. What's your maximum budget?
Not sure yet so just suggest what best matches my needs but most likely it will be $80

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
All kinds but lots of D3 and TL2 when it comes out

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no

7. Other relevant information:
I go through mice rather quickly and need one that is built well and will not have the buttons go bad after 7 months. No Razer mice either since the last 2 I had from them lasted less than 8 months and not happy about the build quality. I like using my current cloth pad so it needs to track ok on cloth. Currently using a g400 but the buttons are starting to go out thanks to D3.


----------



## IloveKuchen

@lognoronon: Get another g400, you wont get better switches (its the same on like every mouse anyway, only a few are using stiffer ones then the omron and those are not for you).
Of course you can buy any mouse you feel good with, most are in your budget and since you dont care about the sensor you can get whatever mouse you want.
The best advice i can give you for D3 though is: Learn to play it right, dont click all the time but hold the buttons. youy will attack as fast and you can play a lot longer. Trust me, i played so much D2 and after 2years i tried to use the back then new thing to hold for continious attacking

@pruik6: the wannabe highend mice with steel and **** have a bad sensor or a sensor with at least minor flaws.
So you can either get some Spawn or Abyssus which botha re the best mice for your gripping style or you wait and hope that stuff like Taipan or some other totally overpriced mice get sensor/firmware that dont ruin it.

I wouldv recommended the Zowie AM but it has buttons that really annoy if you fingertip grp it, but you can try (if u can try it in a shop)the mico if you like the click, i dont.
Quote:


> Good low LOD.


you can tapefix any optical mouse for sick low LOD, i have my deathadder that low that it doenst even track on hard mats anymore(and if i need it higher i change the tape).
((of course theres the WMO...u say u want 400dpi with light mice there you go, its cheap and awesome)´

If you really dont want the best hardware you can get but the best shell with some random sensor (with prediction) go to the stores and buy whatever you like the feel the most, most mice have above 2m/s perfect control and you will never need more for rts, check out the Sc2 pros they play from cheap korean mice up to **** like sensei.


----------



## i7Stealth1366

I am currently using a Steelseries Ikari. I am wanting something with possibly a little more weight and higher dpi. Also I was looking for
something to use with Diablo 3 (Marco Buttons).

I use a palm grip but am not against switching if a mous has better performance. My
budget is from up to $109.99

I have been looking at the Sensei, Razer Naga, Logitecj G9x, Roccat
Kone+ and a few others. I want something that is pretty durable and has good
drivers.


----------



## Peopie

Hello!

I've been going through a bunch of cheap mice that have been laying around in my house, and none of them are very comfortable, and the only one that is comfortable, does not have enough buttons on it

So I've decided that instead of just finding some random mouse and having an uncomfortable hand, It'd be better for me to just invest in a good mouse
I'm not entirely sure of all of the details, or what I like, but I'll give as best of a response as I can

*1. What's your grip style?*
I believe my grip style is *Palm* or *Fingertip*, but definitely not Claw

I think I may prefer fingertip so my palm doesn't get as sweaty, but I don't think I'd mind that much for palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I'm not sure how to answer this one, *Medium* I guess?
I'm not a fan of fps games, so I don't think I need high sensitivity?

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
I would prefer something around the *$50* section, but I would also consider somewhere around $80 too

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, I really like the side buttons, at least two side buttons would be good, but I think I would want *4* in total, more is okay, but nothing too extreme like 12 buttons on one side
two on each side would be great

*5. What games do you play?*
I'm playing *Diablo 3* until *Guild Wars 2* comes out
I don't really play fps games

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I tried reading up on this, and I'm not entirely sure what it is, but from what I think, *I don't mind prediction*

*7. Other relevant information:*
I'm also trying to get a new keyboard too, so if the mouse can be paired up with a keyboard, that would be an extra plus
I don't mind wireless either, and it would make things more convieniant, as I don't really have a proper desk or permanent set up for my computer
Also, I don't like glossy surfaces of mice, they seem to get really nasty after a few days of use, so I'd really like a mouse that doesn't get dirty easily
I think rubberized surfaces are also bad. Rubber and sweat don't really go well with each other

I'm right handed if that is of any importance

*As a short summary of the relevant information:*
No Glossy
No Rubbery
Included Keyboard nice
Wireless okay
Nothing that gets dirty easily

Thank You in advance!


----------



## IloveKuchen

Quote:


> I'm not a fan of fps games, so I don't think I need high sensitivity?


Low sens means your mouse cursor moves slow and you have to move your mouse more to move 180°. Like that you can aim better.
Sens hasnt that muhc to do with dpi/cpi, with 1800dpi you can easily play high sense, meaning you move your mouse only like 1cm in a square.

If u really dont mind prediction the G500 is nice, i also played and still play sometimes mmo with it, lots of nice buttons and it really doesnt get dirty, at least less then other mice.
IF you want a good sensor g400, better sensor but less buttons.

Acceleration means that if you move your mouse 5cm in one speed it wont move the cursor the same distance with more or less speed. Its bad for muscle memory thats why good players dont want it.
Acceleration as a flaw is if its built into the sensor, most if not all laser mice have it, some opticals are nice and dont have it.
You can add accerelation easily on optical mice, e.g. if you need it for some weapons in quake live but you cannot take it away from laser mice=>thats the problem.

keyboard:theres not that many differences in your budget, get or keep any rubberdome you feel comfy with, if you find some old g11(with many macro buttons) for a few bucks thats great, imo they are built better then the new g11/g15 and up.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IloveKuchen*
> 
> Low sens means your mouse cursor moves slow and you have to move your mouse more to move 180°. Like that you can aim better.
> Sens hasnt that muhc to do with dpi/cpi, with 1800dpi you can easily play high sense, meaning you move your mouse only like 1cm in a square.
> If u really dont mind prediction the G500 is nice, i also played and still play sometimes mmo with it, lots of nice buttons and it really doesnt get dirty, at least less then other mice.
> IF you want a good sensor g400, better sensor but less buttons.
> Acceleration means that if you move your mouse 5cm in one speed it wont move the cursor the same distance with more or less speed. Its bad for muscle memory thats why good players dont want it.
> Acceleration as a flaw is if its built into the sensor, most if not all laser mice have it, some opticals are nice and dont have it.
> You can add accerelation easily on optical mice, e.g. if you need it for some weapons in quake live but you cannot take it away from laser mice=>thats the problem.
> keyboard:theres not that many differences in your budget, get or keep any rubberdome you feel comfy with, if you find some old g11(with many macro buttons) for a few bucks thats great, imo they are built better then the new g11/g15 and up.


PTE is accel free inherently. Older cmos based Lasers are also accel free.


----------



## Peopie

Thanks for you input and explanations!

I feel like acceleration would get confusing then

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IloveKuchen*
> 
> keyboard:theres not that many differences in your budget, get or keep any rubberdome you feel comfy with, if you find some old g11(with many macro buttons) for a few bucks thats great, imo they are built better then the new g11/g15 and up.


I'm a little confused by what you are saying here though, about the difference in my budget?

I think rubberdomes are a type of keyboard, right?

I wouldnt mind spending 100 for a keyboard and a mouse package thing?

I saw that theres a deal for a g500 on newegg right now, Its going for 50, but I was wondering if there would be other options too

I really like steelseries, but their mice and keyboards are pretty expensive


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Peopie*
> 
> Thanks for you input and explanations!
> I feel like acceleration would get confusing then
> I'm a little confused by what you are saying here though, about the difference in my budget?
> I think rubberdomes are a type of keyboard, right?
> I wouldnt mind spending 100 for a keyboard and a mouse package thing?
> I saw that theres a deal for a g500 on newegg right now, Its going for 50, but I was wondering if there would be other options too
> I really like steelseries, but their mice and keyboards are pretty expensive


Rubber domes are your basic keyboards you would buy, like a microsoft or dell keyboard. I refers to the rubber dome beneath the key that you have to push down to activate the key. Mechanical keyboards have switches instead of the rubber dome. Guide *here* if you want to read into it a little more.

Unfortunately the price tag reflects the quality of the product, especially when it is still a newer product and isn't on sale. I've been using the Naga Hex when playing Diablo 3 and the GW2 beta, because it has 6 buttons on the left side for the abilities. I'm not a fan of the placement for the back & forward buttons for browsing the internet, but it is still a nice mouse even if it is glossy. In my experience, every mouse shows the mess our hands leave behind. Our hands are disgusting things and using your mouse a lot will show it through having dirt, dried sweat, and dead skin on it. So if you're worried about a certain surface getting dirty just clean it once in a while, and be more concerned about which surface feels better to you.

The g500 is a good mouse and I used mine for a long time, think it's in my closet somewhere collecting dust now. If you have small hands like me it won't be incredibly comfortable however. It is a large mouse and made more for a palm grip than fingertip/fingertip hybrid. This requires you to place your palm in a fairly determined spot and if your hand isn't large enough, you have to move your hand up the mouse slightly, defeating its ergo design and creates some slight discomfort. I used it for almost a year if not over a year and still liked it enough to avoid spending unnecessary money on another since I was still in college. Since then I've used the Zowie EC2, G9x, Naga Hex, Zowie AM and others. My favorites to date are the Hex and Zowie AM, the AM being my favorite of the two.


----------



## IloveKuchen

Quote:


> I'm a little confused by what you are saying here though, about the difference in my budget?


if your budget is 80$ you can get the g400 for 40 and a nice keyboard for like 20$.
If you want it mechanical your above 100$, the mechanical keyboards start at like 80$ unless you get a g80-3000 for a good price but im not sure if it fits what you want optically..


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IloveKuchen*
> 
> if your budget is 80$ you can get the g400 for 40 and a nice keyboard for like 20$.
> If you want it mechanical your above 100$, the mechanical keyboards start at like 80$ unless you get a g80-3000 for a good price but im not sure if it fits what you want optically..


You can find mechanicals on geekhack.org being sold for less than $100 now and again. Just have to look for sales online as well too.


----------



## IloveKuchen

Sure you can but if its mouse+keyboard the keyboard can only be like 60$for 100$budget, thats possible but not with the gaming brands.


----------



## Peopie

Wow, Thanks for your help guys!

I looked at some of the mice that Crunkles said, and I'm really liking the Zowie Am, and I think that might be the one I am going to get
But actually, after reading a little more, it seems that only one side of the side buttons are available at one time









I really like it's simple and plain design though

I think a steelseries xai would be ideal for me, but I can't seem to find them on sale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IloveKuchen*
> 
> Sure you can but if its mouse+keyboard the keyboard can only be like 60$for 100$budget, thats possible but not with the gaming brands.


Well I don't mind if its not a gaming keyboard or a mechanical one, but my keyboard is just super old, and is starting to not register certain button presses sometimes.
And it has a really weird F-key system, and makes it really hard to go into the bios


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

1. What's your grip style?
I change my grips, when I am browsing I have a palm grip in games fingertip.
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 dpi
3. What's your maximum budget?
money is no issue ^^
4. Do you want additional buttons?
at least 4 buttons wich I can acces easily
5. What games do you play?
FPS, and some dota and lol
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I dont want prediction
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc:
Prefer no glossy mice, if possible rubber gripes, omron switches, and sturdy build quality.


----------



## The-Beast

Basically in search of a new mouse because the Razer Naga is causing pain in the right side of my hand.

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? Max sensitivity

3. What's your maximum budget? Unlimited, within reason.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Needs one thumb side (RH) programmable for push to talk.

5. What games do you play? MMO

6. Do you mind about prediction? No to prediction

7. Other relevant information: Not wireless, I do like the index/middle grooves on the naga, I don't have lift problems.

Edit: Was at fry's today picked up a Cyborg Rat 7


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

1. What's your grip style? Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? 400 to 1800 usually.

3. What's your maximum budget? $80

4. Do you want additional buttons? At least one on each side (ambidextrous)

5. What games do you play? FPS, 3rd PS, RTS, MMO, RPGs

6. Do you mind about prediction? Little to no prediction

7. Other relevant information: Wired, ambidextrous, good notch (not free) scroll wheel, good for both left and right, worthwhile software.


----------



## phillyd

Just got my Mionix Naos 3200 mouse, looks, feels and works great!


----------



## NateZ28

*Mouse:*
1. What's your grip style?
Palm and sometime Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium to High

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50-$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't really matter.

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Diablo 3, League of Legends (More of an FPS gamer)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd rather not have it or the option to turn it off.

7. Other relevant information:
I'm coming from an MX518, which I liked but it never tracked quite as well as I would have liked.

*Mouse Pad:*
8. Hard or cloth?
I'd say hard because I don't think cloth tracks as well.

9. Rough or smooth?
Doesn't matter, whatever tracks better.

10. Which size approximately?
Medium to Large.

11. What's your maximum budget?
$30 range.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateZ28*
> 
> *Mouse:*
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm and sometime Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium to High
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $50-$100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Doesn't really matter.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Diablo 3, League of Legends (More of an FPS gamer)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd rather not have it or the option to turn it off.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'm coming from an MX518, which I liked but it never tracked quite as well as I would have liked.
> 
> *Mouse Pad:*
> 8. Hard or cloth?
> I'd say hard because I don't think cloth tracks as well.
> 
> 9. Rough or smooth?
> Doesn't matter, whatever tracks better.
> 
> 10. Which size approximately?
> Medium to Large.
> 
> 11. What's your maximum budget?
> $30 range.


mouse:
http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=naos3200
or
http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=3200

mousepad
http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=propus380

worth a shot. I have the Naos 3200 and it is an awesome mouse.
I have a similar grip style to you


----------



## IloveKuchen

I personally im biased with the Zowie mouse. First, they are nicely built but then they have those stiffy switches so it takes more force to push them.
For that they are too expensive considered the sensor is actually worse.

The Xai you can buy, but you should read about the problems the Xai has before you buy it, youl could be disappointed.

Ebay sells everything, go there and get it from some of the asian traders if theres nowhere to buy, most of them ship shipping free and it will take like 10day tog et to you.

For the keyboard you can get a cherry g80-3000 that should be the cheapest one and still a very good keyboard and you can get the steelseries 6gv2 for a bit more. Thats the cheap options,
Then theres the CM storm quickfire that if you can get it for a nice price in your country thats a really high quality board then and you can choose some switches.

Thats the mechanical options, the rubberdomes are the same most of the time, of course some of the gaming brands offer them with NKRO which could be usefull to u.


----------



## NateZ28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> mouse:
> http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=naos3200
> or
> http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=3200
> mousepad
> http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=propus380
> worth a shot. I have the Naos 3200 and it is an awesome mouse.
> I have a similar grip style to you


I'm very intrigued. I've never been sure if laser or optical is better though. People will swear by either.
I've never heard of Mionix before, can anyone else comment on them?


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateZ28*
> 
> *Mouse:*
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm and sometime Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium to High
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $50-$100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Doesn't really matter.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Diablo 3, League of Legends (More of an FPS gamer)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd rather not have it or the option to turn it off.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'm coming from an MX518, which I liked but it never tracked quite as well as I would have liked.
> *Mouse Pad:*
> 8. Hard or cloth?
> I'd say hard because I don't think cloth tracks as well.
> 9. Rough or smooth?
> Doesn't matter, whatever tracks better.
> 10. Which size approximately?
> Medium to Large.
> 11. What's your maximum budget?
> $30 range.


*This* is what I use for a mousepad when I'm not using my cloth one.

I have a mouse grip similar to yours and use the Naga Hex for playing Diablo 3, and maybe GW2 when that is out of beta. I also use the Zowie AM, which I prefer but it doesn't have the buttons the Naga does.


----------



## NateZ28

What about the Zowie Gear EC2 eVo? Reviews for that seem good. How does it compare to the Mionix Naos or the G400?
What kind of pad would be good for it?


----------



## Snakesoul

Lo NateZ28,

Since all the mice you said are optical, i think they will track well on cloth pads (especially dark ones), but i guess someone with more experience could give his knowledge








As for Zowie EC2 evo, from what i read, it's almost the same size as the intellimouse 1.1, but with side buttons. (been reading also some scroll problems....)
Mionix Naos? Wich one? the optical one? i think it has prediction (same optical sensor as the ikari optical?)
Well G400 it's a great mouse, it tracks very well and it's comfortable (if you get used to it's grip.....)
Hope i helped you..


----------



## NateZ28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Lo NateZ28,
> Since all the mice you said are optical, i think they will track well on cloth pads (especially dark ones), but i guess someone with more experience could give his knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Zowie EC2 evo, from what i read, it's almost the same size as the intellimouse 1.1, but with side buttons. (been reading also some scroll problems....)
> Mionix Naos? Wich one? the optical one? i think it has prediction (same optical sensor as the ikari optical?)
> Well G400 it's a great mouse, it tracks very well and it's comfortable (if you get used to it's grip.....)
> Hope i helped you..


Optical or laser doesn't really matter to me. More people seem to recommend optical for some reason. So you think the G400 is the best of that bunch?
Better than the G500?


----------



## Snakesoul

People recommed optical over laser, because optical seems to track better on any surface than laser ofc there are exceptions.... Also there's the acceleration issue on certain mouse, like G500 you mentioned and laser sensors are more sensible to dust (other points i'll leave for people with more experience). Some can seei it, some don't, some says it only can be seen on very low sensitivity's (well i'm a medium sensitivity player i think - entire normal qck for 360º, and still i couldn't put the crosshair from the starting point, it would go always for right or left...). From my point of view G400 it's the best price\quality (just make sure you get one without prediction) with one of the "best" (not newer) sensor on the market, without any serious problems as described..


----------



## NateZ28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> People recommed optical over laser, because optical seems to track better on any surface than laser ofc there are exceptions.... Also there's the acceleration issue on certain mouse, like G500 you mentioned and laser sensors are more sensible to dust (other points i'll leave for people with more experience). Some can seei it, some don't, some says it only can be seen on very low sensitivity's (well i'm a medium sensitivity player i think - entire normal qck for 360º, and still i couldn't put the crosshair from the starting point, it would go always for right or left...). From my point of view G400 it's the best price\quality (just make sure you get one without prediction) with one of the "best" (not newer) sensor on the market, without any serious problems as described..


So how do I be sure I get the "best" sensor if it's not in the newest models?


----------



## NuFon

The newer g400 comes with no prediction, he meant that the sensor in itself is not new. It's actually almost impossible to get an old g400 now in stores that actually have decent sales.


----------



## NateZ28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> The newer g400 comes with no prediction, he meant that the sensor in itself is not new. It's actually almost impossible to get an old g400 now in stores that actually have decent sales.


Gotchya.
So cloth is better for optical? What pad would you guys recommend for the G400?


----------



## NuFon

Any black cloth mousepad, for example: Qck line of mouse mats, Goliathus line of mouse mats, Xtrac cloth mousemats and Artisan mousemats. (and ofcourse many, many more.)


----------



## sikkly

1. What's your grip style?
Claw - I have medium sized hands

2. What's your sensitivity?
Very high - need a mouse with 3k+ dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
~$80, willing to go higher if someone can justify higher though.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not needed, although 2 would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
RTS(sc2) is my primary game, casual FPS, casual MMO, d3

6. Do you mind about prediction?
A mouse fitting my hand properly is more important than no prediction, but less is obviously better.

7. Other relevant information:
I really want a very light mouse. A lot of the mouse that seem right for claw seem very big and heavy, or else uncomfortable. The upcoming Razer Taipan kind interests me, but I'm afraid its sensor is going to be horrible, and the mouse seems ever so slightly on the thin end.

The common CM Spawn response really appeals to me as far as shape goes, but it seems like it would be a heavy mouse, which I'm trying to shy away from if possible. Honestly a mouse in this shape but as light as possible would be nice, if one exists, unless I am overestimating how heavy it is?

I currently play on a Steelseries QCK mouse pad that has some barbarion graphics on it, but I'm willing to buy a new pad if a mouse is picky about the pad its on in order to have a good mouse.

Really never worried about mice before because I always said it doesn't really matter, but recently I have been getting uncomfortable while playing so I want a mouse that actually fits what I use it for. Other mice I have used was the original wow gaming mouse, and the Razer Mamba, which I received as a gift. The Mamba is far to heavy, even using it in wired mode with the battery taken out of it. The shape of it obviously isn't optimal either.

I really dislike jittery mice.

pretty sure that covers it all, thanks in advance for any help/advice!


----------



## NuFon

The Razer Abyssus seems to be your mouse, a little small to be clawed though.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw - I have medium sized hands
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Very high - need a mouse with 3k+ dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> ~$80, willing to go higher if someone can justify higher though.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not needed, although 2 would be nice.
> 5. What games do you play?
> RTS(sc2) is my primary game, casual FPS, casual MMO, d3
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> A mouse fitting my hand properly is more important than no prediction, but less is obviously better.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I really want a very light mouse. A lot of the mouse that seem right for claw seem very big and heavy, or else uncomfortable. The upcoming Razer Taipan kind interests me, but I'm afraid its sensor is going to be horrible, and the mouse seems ever so slightly on the thin end.
> The common CM Spawn response really appeals to me as far as shape goes, but it seems like it would be a heavy mouse, which I'm trying to shy away from if possible. Honestly a mouse in this shape but as light as possible would be nice, if one exists, unless I am overestimating how heavy it is?
> I currently play on a Steelseries QCK mouse pad that has some barbarion graphics on it, but I'm willing to buy a new pad if a mouse is picky about the pad its on in order to have a good mouse.
> Really never worried about mice before because I always said it doesn't really matter, but recently I have been getting uncomfortable while playing so I want a mouse that actually fits what I use it for. Other mice I have used was the original wow gaming mouse, and the Razer Mamba, which I received as a gift. The Mamba is far to heavy, even using it in wired mode with the battery taken out of it. The shape of it obviously isn't optimal either.
> I really dislike jittery mice.
> pretty sure that covers it all, thanks in advance for any help/advice!


The Logitech G9x may be good for you. It's wider and has their software for changing things up to be optimized for you. The buttons felt a little sensitive to me, but that's because I'm used to mice that are harder to press. I also have a QCK mousepad and it works fine on it. Most of the Logitech mice are wider, which it sounds like you're looking for. But these are just recommendations from the brands I know, since the Razor and Zowie mice I've used are thin. Don't know if you've seen the Zowie AM but it is probably my favorite mouse, but I currently use the Naga Hex to get used to the side buttons for GW2.


----------



## nykeiscool

1. What's your grip style?
Wide

2. What's your sensitivity?
Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes i play a lot of Dota 2 and also getting ready for guildwars 2 and plan to map all skills to my mouse

in short yes i need 10+
5. What games do you play?
Dota 2 , GuildWars 2, FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No
7. Other relevant information:
I have A logitech G9x atm and love it, just lacks buttons.. was thinking the Corsair M90 or the Razer naga orr the new Logitch G600


----------



## karod

1. What's your grip style?
mix of palm and fingertip (on my current deathadder, I place the fingertips on the buttons and the hand doesn't contact everywhere)
tendency goes towards fingertip over time

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
40-50€ ->50-63$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, at least one side button would be nice (browser back)

5. What games do you play?
at the moment vindictus (3rd person, but you control the movement,camera,aim with the mouse)
Assasin's Creed, HL2, Mirrors Edge, plus other MMOs

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yeah, I don't like it. (I doesn't have it on my Deathadder now)

7. Other relevant information:
The LOD is not that critical, my DA has 2-3 CDs (2 CDs works just fine, but 3 CDs it fails on the Destructor mouspad) and it doesn't bother me.

The main reason to switch my Deathadder, besides that it is 25 month old and dirty, is that I want something that is flatter. My Grip changes somehow from palm to fingertip, as mentioned above. So that's why I search something that isn't high as the DA.
A nice addition would be a non-braided cord, since a braided one scrapes at the edge of my desk and produces noise and slow-downs.
But a braided is no dealbreaker.

I tried to see a CM Storm spawn in real life, but those 2 electronic stores I visited didn't have it (only the G400, Abyssus, Savu, Sensei)
I don't know if that is the correct shape for me and the Standby-Bug, high-CPU usage I read about put me a bit away.

The Steelseries Kana would be nice, just from reading the shape measurements and it has 1 button on each side. But the sensor shall be meh.
The Zowie AM looks to be quite small in width an more expensive.
The Abyssus I tried wasn't bad, I liked it really but it has no additional buttons.


----------



## Ev0lution

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Medium to High

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$45

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Does not matter

*5. What games do you play?*
SC2 only

*6. Do you mind angle snapping?*
Not sure

*7. Other relevant information:*
Hand size is Small-Medium (18.4cm tip of middle finger to end of palm, and 8.89cm palm width) so I was looking at smaller mice. I have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 that I am really considering. The main mice I am trying to decide between is the StealSeries Kinzu v2 Pro or maybe the CM Storm Spawn. I really like the Kinzu v2 pro but have read bad things about the tracker, which has caused me to be hesitant in my purchase of it. I like the CM Storm Spawn but I'm not sure how it's shape would feel, as I have read that it's a claw grip mouse and it's different than the regular ambidextrous mouse I currently use (UVDEL1 model). Another mouse that I have considered is the Razer Abyssus, but I have heard mixed reviews about Razer products and the blue LED light on the back always being on even when your PC is in sleep mode is a deal breaker for me. So that pretty much leaves me with the CM Storm Spawn with an Amazon price of $35 vs. the SteelSeries v2 Pro with an Amazon price of $45. Your suggestions are welcome and if you have other mice in my price range that you think I should consider, please feel free to add. This is my first time buying a high performance mouse so all input is appreciated. Thanks


----------



## ElixirLT

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip or Claw grip, use and swap between both frequently.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium to High DPI, I can use anything from 1800 to 3500 comfortably.

3. What's your maximum budget?

$80

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Having one or two on the left side would be awesome (for Dota items)

5. What games do you play?

HoN, Dota 2, LoL, Guild Wars 2, Counter-Strike: GO/Source, Diablo III.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I'd much prefer no prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

The main thing for me is a perfect sensor, I just want it to be me and the computer with nothing in between if that was possible! As long as it fits my hand and has a side button or two (and is wired) it would be fine with me.

Lower LOD the better, As long as it fits my right hand it's fine! Weight is no issue, used both low weight and high weight mice, I'd prefer a non-braided cord, but as long as it's not too irritating it's fine. I prefer matte finishes since I have rather sweaty hands and don't want to lose grip on glossy mice. Activation force would hopefully be similar to the CM Spawn, on the lower end since I'm used to Omron switches. Drivers/non driver/ non software doesn't matter to me, and onboard memory doesn't matter.

I've been looking particularly at replacing my CM Storm Spawn (the paint on the outside is peeling away rapidly now that there's a gaping hole in it after 6 months. I've been gazing at the Zowie AM/EC EvO (what's the difference between 1 and 2 anyways?) and the DotA version of Steelseries Kana since it has the rubberized cord. Almost all mice work perfectly fine with me as long as they don't have a laser sensor (urgh!) and aren't suitable for only palm grippers (Deathadder). My hand is about average with slightly larger than average fingers, which is why I've always liked fingertip/claw grip!

Thanks so much in advance!


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ev0lution*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Medium to High
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $45
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Does not matter
> *5. What games do you play?*
> SC2 only
> *6. Do you mind angle snapping?*
> Not sure
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Hand size is Small-Medium (18.4cm tip of middle finger to end of palm, and 8.89cm palm width) so I was looking at smaller mice. I have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 that I am really considering. The main mice I am trying to decide between is the StealSeries Kinzu v2 Pro or maybe the CM Storm Spawn. I really like the Kinzu v2 pro but have read bad things about the tracker, which has caused me to be hesitant in my purchase of it. I like the CM Storm Spawn but I'm not sure how it's shape would feel, as I have read that it's a claw grip mouse and it's different than the regular ambidextrous mouse I currently use (UVDEL1 model). Another mouse that I have considered is the Razer Abyssus, but I have heard mixed reviews about Razer products and the blue LED light on the back always being on even when your PC is in sleep mode is a deal breaker for me. So that pretty much leaves me with the CM Storm Spawn with an Amazon price of $35 vs. the SteelSeries v2 Pro with an Amazon price of $45. Your suggestions are welcome and if you have other mice in my price range that you think I should consider, please feel free to add. This is my first time buying a high performance mouse so all input is appreciated. Thanks


The Razer Abyssus fits the bill for you


----------



## Looski

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
Just want a good mouse, 80-100 doesn't matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not a huge downside. I haven't had extra buttons other than the 2 side buttons, so I'm not attached to them.

5. What games do you play?
Everything, huge pc gamer. MMOs, shooters, and minecraft most. Then fill it in with everything else.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know specifically what this is.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently use a Steelseries Xai, right click doesn't work correctly and I fear being mouseless if I take her apart. I do have a 9HD mousepad which I spent a chuck of change on, so something that worked well on this type of pad would be a plus.


----------



## Moonfire

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
I just use default sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100 and I'm willing to import if necessary.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not needed, but having two additional butions for forward and back would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
MMORPG mostly, Quake, Unreal Tournament, and Tribes 2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I never notice it and probably wouldn't care.

7. Other relevant information:
My current mice: Steelseries Xai
Previous mice used: Logitech G1, HP GW405AA , Logitech G7, Logitech wireless mouse and random optical mices.
Why change? The Steelseries Xai feels uncomfortable. When holding it for a while my hand feel irritating(feeling of rubbing palms together) and make me want to not touch it. Also, I don't have a good grip on it. When I try to lift up the Xai I can't control it and have to regrip mice every time because the back part doesn't quite touch my palm. These weren't an issue with my previous mices.

I would prefer wired mice over wireless. I would like to use the mice for several years and fear wireless mice might be like my G7(battery packs life decreasing). Thought about getting a Logitech G400, but in Takasta's review of the G400 he said the surface of G400 is same material on Xai. Was also thinking of getting a Logitech G1, but it is a really old mice and wasn't sure if worth it.

Edit: I meant that I owned a G7 not G700.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moonfire*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I just use default sensitivity.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100 and I'm willing to import if necessary.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not needed, but having two additional butions for forward and back would be nice.
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMORPG mostly, Quake, Unreal Tournament, and Tribes 2.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I never notice it and probably wouldn't care.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My current mice: Steelseries Xai
> Previous mice used: Logitech G1, HP GW405AA , Logitech G700, Logitech wireless mouse and random optical mices.
> Why change? The Steelseries Xai feels uncomfortable. When holding it for a while my hand feel irritating(feeling of rubbing palms together) and make me want to not touch it. Also, I don't have a good grip on it. When I try to lift up the Xai I can't control it and have to regrip mice every time because the back part doesn't quite touch my palm. These weren't an issue with my previous mices.
> I would prefer wired mice over wireless. I would like to use the mice for several years and fear wireless mice might be like my G700(battery packs life decreasing). Thought about getting a Logitech G400, but in Takasta's review of the G400 he said the surface of G400 is same material on Xai. Was also thinking of getting a Logitech G1, but it is a really old mice and wasn't sure if worth it.


The G400 is using a bit more "dry" surface than the xai. The G1 is still a great mouse if you're into the shape, there is also a new version of it, but some say it's worse. It's called the G100. Try the Deathadder and G400, maybe the G1 and G100.


----------



## Onyx Spartan II

1. What's your grip style? Palm mostly, sometimes fingertip I think.

2. What's your sensitivity? I use an old G5 right now. I'm on the highest DPI setting you can get just from the default buttons I think. I just changed from 1600x900 to 1080p so the middle setting won't cut it anymore. This max setting is a little too fast for my liking though. Will probably get used to it in time.

3. What's your maximum budget? $60 or so

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes please. At least two on the side like the G5 would be nice.

5. What games do you play? Diablo 3, going to purchase Metro 2033 soon and try that one out. Generally I like to play role-playing games and RTS/turn based strategy games.

6. Do you mind about prediction? I don't know what this is really.

7. Other relevant information: I've been looking kind of heavily at the Sentinel Advance 2 right now. It looks really good, but I'm not sure about the metal area at the back of the mouse. It looks like it has some paint, and I've had some friends' mice have similar kinds of paint chip and fade away after extended use, and it starts to look nasty. I'd like a mouse that doesn't do that, if at all possible.

Also, could someone recommend a decent mouse pad? I'm tired of my old, thin little Newegg pad that I got at some ad fair at my university.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onyx Spartan II*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm mostly, sometimes fingertip I think.
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I use an old G5 right now. I'm on the highest DPI setting you can get just from the default buttons I think. I just changed from 1600x900 to 1080p so the middle setting won't cut it anymore. This max setting is a little too fast for my liking though. Will probably get used to it in time.
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $60 or so
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes please. At least two would be nice.
> 5. What games do you play? Diablo 3, going to purchase Metro 2033 soon and try that one out. Generally I like to play role-playing games and RTS/turn based strategy games.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I don't know what this is really.
> 7. Other relevant information: I've been looking kind of heavily at the Sentinel Advance 2 right now. It looks really good, but I'm not sure about the metal area at the back of the mouse. It looks like it has some paint, and I've had some friends' mice have similar kinds of paint chip and fade away after extended use, and it starts to look nasty. I'd like a mouse that doesn't do that, if at all possible.
> Also, could someone recommend a decent mouse pad? I'm tired of my old, thin little Newegg pad that I got at some ad fair at my university.


First of all onyx higher dpi settings wont make you more precise. Just the cursor will move more pixels on youre screen per inch when you move the mouse. I dont know what DPI the middle setting is but I think it is 800.
Youre now using the Xai wich has a avago 9500 sensor this sensor has how we call it positive or negative acceleration.
Here is a youtube movie on what it is.




So for gamers muscle memory is key, with acceleration youre mouse cursor will be slight of target after moving the same amount of distance back. It could be more positive movement on youre screen or more negative.

I would say if youre dpi is 800 pick a logitech g400 wich has a sensor with native setting of 800dpi.
You could also go for the zowie am or the razer deathadder (black edition).
The Zowie has more the same shape as youre Xai so if you like that could be a good mouse for you.

For the mouse pad, I would say get yourself a qck+ from steelseries.
If you have more money to spend you could also buy a puretrak talent or even a artisan.


----------



## Onyx Spartan II

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> First of all onyx higher dpi settings wont make you more precise. Just the cursor will move more pixels on youre screen per inch when you move the mouse. I dont know what DPI the middle setting is but I think it is 800.
> Youre now using the Xai wich has a avago 9500 sensor this sensor has how we call it positive or negative acceleration.
> Here is a youtube movie on what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So for gamers muscle memory is key, with acceleration youre mouse cursor will be slight of target after moving the same amount of distance back. It could be more positive movement on youre screen or more negative.
> I would say if youre dpi is 800 pick a logitech g400 wich has a sensor with native setting of 800dpi.
> You could also go for the zowie am or the razer deathadder (black edition).
> The Zowie has more the same shape as youre Xai so if you like that could be a good mouse for you.
> For the mouse pad, I would say get yourself a qck+ from steelseries.
> If you have more money to spend you could also buy a puretrak talent or even a artisan.


Err... I'm using a Logitech G5, not a Xai? Or is that a category of mouse, rather than a model? (I'm afraid I'm rather new to the world of peripherals) I'm not looking to be more precise with my mouse; the middle setting on my G5 just moves my cursor more slowly than it did on my 1600x900 screen, so now I'm using the highest setting whatever it may be. According to Wikipedia, the default DPI for the highest setting is 2000, so I guess I'm using that now. 800 isn't enough now.

What is the difference between the regular Razer Deathadder and the Black Edition one? I like the Zowie AM most at the moment, but could anyone who's used it give an opinion on how awkward it is to use the buttons on the right side of the mouse with your pinky or ring finger? Reading reviews it seems to be mostly a claw or fingertip grip mouse, and I use a palm grip mostly, but I'll experiment now with trying to use a fingertip grip most of the time now.

edit: I also have somewhat large hands, and I see that the Zowie is on the small side for large hands. If it helps as a sense of scale, I can cover my G5 entirely.

Also, thank you for the Qck+. That looks to be exactly what I want.


----------



## JDMfanatic

1. What's your grip style?
Palm!

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low-Medium Sensitivity, I use the medium DPI setting on my Logitech G5, which would be 800DPI. 800-1200DPI would be perfect.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, 1 or 2 buttons for my left thumb.

5. What games do you play?
MOBA (League of Legends, DOTA 2), RTS (Starcraft II), MMORPG (Guild Wars II)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer not to have it.

7. Other relevant information:
I've been using this old Logitech G5 for over 4 years now, so I guess it could use a replacement. I would really prefer optical!
I was looking at the Mionix Naos 3200... seems like a good bet! Any other suggestions? Deathadder? I don't like the G400!


----------



## disintegratorx

I just ordered a Razer Imperator 2012 Edition from Amazon and it costed me 70$ without the added shipping that I chose to put on. Does anybody have any experience with them, and if so any good feedback?


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JDMfanatic*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm!
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low-Medium Sensitivity, I use the medium DPI setting on my Logitech G5, which would be 800DPI. 800-1200DPI would be perfect.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, 1 or 2 buttons for my left thumb.
> 5. What games do you play?
> MOBA (League of Legends, DOTA 2), RTS (Starcraft II), MMORPG (Guild Wars II)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I would prefer not to have it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I've been using this old Logitech G5 for over 4 years now, so I guess it could use a replacement. I would really prefer optical!
> I was looking at the Mionix Naos 3200... seems like a good bet! Any other suggestions? Deathadder? I don't like the G400!


mabay other mice mentioning are

*Tt eSports Saphira, Zowie AM, Qpad5k, a4 tech*


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onyx Spartan II*
> 
> Err... I'm using a Logitech G5, not a Xai? Or is that a category of mouse, rather than a model? (I'm afraid I'm rather new to the world of peripherals) I'm not looking to be more precise with my mouse; the middle setting on my G5 just moves my cursor more slowly than it did on my 1600x900 screen, so now I'm using the highest setting whatever it may be. According to Wikipedia, the default DPI for the highest setting is 2000, so I guess I'm using that now. 800 isn't enough now.
> What is the difference between the regular Razer Deathadder and the Black Edition one? I like the Zowie AM most at the moment, but could anyone who's used it give an opinion on how awkward it is to use the buttons on the right side of the mouse with your pinky or ring finger? Reading reviews it seems to be mostly a claw or fingertip grip mouse, and I use a palm grip mostly, but I'll experiment now with trying to use a fingertip grip most of the time now.
> edit: I also have somewhat large hands, and I see that the Zowie is on the small side for large hands. If it helps as a sense of scale, I can cover my G5 entirely.
> Also, thank you for the Qck+. That looks to be exactly what I want.


*Tt eSports Saphira* is a nice mice, if u use higher dpi but dont know if it is youre tast with large hands. Mabay *Mionix 3200* is a good option for you, it has a shape for palm grip.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disintegratorx*
> 
> I just ordered a Razer Imperator 2012 Edition from Amazon and it costed me 70$ without the added shipping that I chose to put on. Does anybody have any experience with them, and if so any good feedback?


Razer imperator has a very nice shape for palm and fingertip grip. Only con's of the razer imperator is the z-axis issue where when you lift up the mouse and put it back on youre mouse pad youre cursor would be slightly off the iniatial position. For the rest its a razer mouse and razer isnt really know for its durability.


----------



## Jinholic

1. What's your grip style?
Palm but I fingertip if the mouse is too small.

2. What's your sensitivity?
1200dpi is what I'm using now but I'm fine with anything.

3. What's your maximum budget?
100USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
My current mouse has none so its not a big deal for me.

5. What games do you play?
Lol, Minecraft, DD, D3, L4D2, and many RTS titles.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd rather not have it.

7. Other relevant information:
I've used and liked ambidextrous mice in the past so I'm fine with them (right handed) and no glossy finish my current mouse has it and just crap that you didn't even know was on your hands gets on the mouse and I keep clean while at my desk. Also a final side note my current mouse is a bit too small so I'd like something with a good size and medium weight to it.


----------



## Vonnis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disintegratorx*
> 
> I just ordered a Razer Imperator 2012 Edition from Amazon and it costed me 70$ without the added shipping that I chose to put on. Does anybody have any experience with them, and if so any good feedback?


I used to have an Imperator, older model though. It served me well, and it's incredibly comfortable, but unfortunately the left mouse button was starting to have issues. From what I've read durability isn't Razer's strong suit, I hope yours lasts longer than mine did.


----------



## disintegratorx

Damm. :/ Alright. Thanks for that.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinholic*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm but I fingertip if the mouse is too small.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1200dpi is what I'm using now but I'm fine with anything.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100USD
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> My current mouse has none so its not a big deal for me.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Lol, Minecraft, DD, D3, L4D2, and many RTS titles.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd rather not have it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I've used and liked ambidextrous mice in the past so I'm fine with them (right handed) and no glossy finish my current mouse has it and just crap that you didn't even know was on your hands gets on the mouse and I keep clean while at my desk. Also a final side note my current mouse is a bit too small so I'd like something with a good size and medium weight to it.


Well for palm ambidextrous, you could go for the *zowie am*, *razer deathadder*, *Tt eSports Saphira*. And if not ambidextrous *logitech g400*, *mionix 3200* al good for palm grip. I guess the ambidextrous are a bit smaller because they are narrow on both size mabay if you want a bigger mouse look into the *mionix 3200* and if you dont mind prediction you could aswell look into the *naos 5000*.


----------



## Crunkles

Edit: Answered all those that I felt I could appropriately. All my comments are based on my opinions and experiences. Reader discretion is advised









Nykeiscool:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nykeiscool*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Wide
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Mid
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes i play a lot of Dota 2 and also getting ready for guildwars 2 and plan to map all skills to my mouse
> in short yes i need 10+
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota 2 , GuildWars 2, FPS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have A logitech G9x atm and love it, just lacks buttons.. was thinking the Corsair M90 or the Razer naga orr the new Logitch G600






Button wise you really only have the Naga, the Logitech G600 MMO Gaming Mouse or M90 for options, as far as I know. You can set sensitivity on them all as I recall as well. The G600 looks similar in shape to the G9x, but a little more ergonomic. The Naga may be a little too slim for you but you'd want to look at the specs in comparison to the G9x to find out exactly.

Karod:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karod*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> mix of palm and fingertip (on my current deathadder, I place the fingertips on the buttons and the hand doesn't contact everywhere)
> tendency goes towards fingertip over time
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 40-50€ ->50-63$
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, at least one side button would be nice (browser back)
> 5. What games do you play?
> at the moment vindictus (3rd person, but you control the movement,camera,aim with the mouse)
> Assasin's Creed, HL2, Mirrors Edge, plus other MMOs
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yeah, I don't like it. (I doesn't have it on my Deathadder now)
> 7. Other relevant information:
> The LOD is not that critical, my DA has 2-3 CDs (2 CDs works just fine, but 3 CDs it fails on the Destructor mouspad) and it doesn't bother me.
> The main reason to switch my Deathadder, besides that it is 25 month old and dirty, is that I want something that is flatter. My Grip changes somehow from palm to fingertip, as mentioned above. So that's why I search something that isn't high as the DA.
> A nice addition would be a non-braided cord, since a braided one scrapes at the edge of my desk and produces noise and slow-downs.
> But a braided is no dealbreaker.
> I tried to see a CM Storm spawn in real life, but those 2 electronic stores I visited didn't have it (only the G400, Abyssus, Savu, Sensei)
> I don't know if that is the correct shape for me and the Standby-Bug, high-CPU usage I read about put me a bit away.
> The Steelseries Kana would be nice, just from reading the shape measurements and it has 1 button on each side. But the sensor shall be meh.
> The Zowie AM looks to be quite small in width an more expensive.
> The Abyssus I tried wasn't bad, I liked it really but it has no additional buttons.






I really like the Zowie AM as I have a similar grip to yours and like how flat it is. I use the Naga Hex as well because it has 6 buttons, but it is definitely not as comfortable. If you are willing to pay more for the Zowie AM I would recommend it.

Ev0lution:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ev0lution*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Medium to High
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $45
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Does not matter
> *5. What games do you play?*
> SC2 only
> *6. Do you mind angle snapping?*
> Not sure
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Hand size is Small-Medium (18.4cm tip of middle finger to end of palm, and 8.89cm palm width) so I was looking at smaller mice. I have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 that I am really considering. The main mice I am trying to decide between is the StealSeries Kinzu v2 Pro or maybe the CM Storm Spawn. I really like the Kinzu v2 pro but have read bad things about the tracker, which has caused me to be hesitant in my purchase of it. I like the CM Storm Spawn but I'm not sure how it's shape would feel, as I have read that it's a claw grip mouse and it's different than the regular ambidextrous mouse I currently use (UVDEL1 model). Another mouse that I have considered is the Razer Abyssus, but I have heard mixed reviews about Razer products and the blue LED light on the back always being on even when your PC is in sleep mode is a deal breaker for me. So that pretty much leaves me with the CM Storm Spawn with an Amazon price of $35 vs. the SteelSeries v2 Pro with an Amazon price of $45. Your suggestions are welcome and if you have other mice in my price range that you think I should consider, please feel free to add. This is my first time buying a high performance mouse so all input is appreciated. Thanks






The Steelseries Kana might be a decent fit for you, being an ambidextrous mouse as well and sized to be useable by all 3 grip styles. I myself really like the Zowie AM however if considering an ambi mouse, although it is ~$60 so you would need to save a little more for it. There is also the Abyssus as mentioned.

ElixirLT:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElixirLT*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip or Claw grip, use and swap between both frequently.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium to High DPI, I can use anything from 1800 to 3500 comfortably.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $80
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Having one or two on the left side would be awesome (for Dota items)
> 5. What games do you play?
> HoN, Dota 2, LoL, Guild Wars 2, Counter-Strike: GO/Source, Diablo III.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd much prefer no prediction.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> The main thing for me is a perfect sensor, I just want it to be me and the computer with nothing in between if that was possible! As long as it fits my hand and has a side button or two (and is wired) it would be fine with me.
> Lower LOD the better, As long as it fits my right hand it's fine! Weight is no issue, used both low weight and high weight mice, I'd prefer a non-braided cord, but as long as it's not too irritating it's fine. I prefer matte finishes since I have rather sweaty hands and don't want to lose grip on glossy mice. Activation force would hopefully be similar to the CM Spawn, on the lower end since I'm used to Omron switches. Drivers/non driver/ non software doesn't matter to me, and onboard memory doesn't matter.
> I've been looking particularly at replacing my CM Storm Spawn (the paint on the outside is peeling away rapidly now that there's a gaping hole in it after 6 months. I've been gazing at the Zowie AM/EC EvO (what's the difference between 1 and 2 anyways?) and the DotA version of Steelseries Kana since it has the rubberized cord. Almost all mice work perfectly fine with me as long as they don't have a laser sensor (urgh!) and aren't suitable for only palm grippers (Deathadder). My hand is about average with slightly larger than average fingers, which is why I've always liked fingertip/claw grip!
> Thanks so much in advance!






As I recall, the only difference between the EC eVo 1 & 2 is the size. The 2 looks for more like a claw grip while the 1 is more of a fingertip. The AM is a great mouse as well. Don't think you could go wrong with any of these.

Looski:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Looski*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Just want a good mouse, 80-100 doesn't matter
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not a huge downside. I haven't had extra buttons other than the 2 side buttons, so I'm not attached to them.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Everything, huge pc gamer. MMOs, shooters, and minecraft most. Then fill it in with everything else.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know specifically what this is.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I currently use a Steelseries Xai, right click doesn't work correctly and I fear being mouseless if I take her apart. I do have a 9HD mousepad which I spent a chuck of change on, so something that worked well on this type of pad would be a plus.






I've used the Naga Molten, Naga Hex, G9x, Zowie AM and Zowie EC2 on this mouse pad and all have worked just fine. So the choice is really up to you here.


----------



## eftj

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Around 3000 DPI, but 4000 would be nice.
3. What's your maximum budget?
50-55 GBP
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Might be a nice addition, but I am not too fussed.
5. What games do you play?
CoD, Minecraft, Diablo III
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I would not like to have it.


----------



## Kentastic

1. What's your grip style?
Claw when gaming, palm when not.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Any.
3. What's your maximum budget?
$80
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just two side buttons would be great.
5. What games do you play?
Mostly FPS, some Skyrim, GW2. I do not play any RTS.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No.
7. Other relevant information:
I really like how the Razer Lachesis forces my hand into a claw position, but I hate how there is no place to put my ring finger and pinky. I also like the way it clicks







however, I prefer ergonomic mice. I'm looking at the DeathAdder and CM Storm Spawn, but neither seem perfect (DA is meant for palm, Spawn is small and ugly). I suppose I could claw a DA if there are no other options.

Mice I have tried:
Logitech G400 - uncomfortable
Razer Lachesis - nowhere to put ring finger and pinky


----------



## Jcoast

1. What's your grip style?
Palm for basic use and fingerip for gaming

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't know. I've never owned a gaming mouse before, so anything that would allow me to be versatile and find my sweet spot would be nice.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Sure, but Not a lot. I don't play MMO's.

5. What games do you play?
Shooters and Skyrim.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, since I mostly play as a sniper in games, I would like to be able to line up the head shots manually without trouble. Please no prediction, or at least drivers that let me turn it off.

7. Other relevant information:
Like I said, I mostly play as a sniper or some sort of range gunner, and I mostly play FPS, so I like to have sensetivity. I like a mouse that is fast though, and can react quickyl, but also track slow so I can line up sniped headshots and not worry about my shaky hands throwing me off, as my hands are very shaky which can be annoying when using a mouse. I also have small hands.

I was thinking of going with a Corsair m60, but please give any suggestions.

Is it ok if I post a mousepad suggestion thing in this forum too? If not mods, just message me and I will clean my post.

1. Hard or cloth?
Whatever works better with the mouse that another forum member suggests for my text above

2. Rough or smooth?
Smooth

3. Which size approximately?
Small to medium. Something I can put right next to my keyboard on my keyboard tray and not worry about it sagging off.

4. What's your maximum budget?

None.


----------



## AeroRange

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip/palm but currently fingertip because my current mouse is small, and my hands are large

2. What's your sensitivity?

1600dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

around 60USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Nope

5. What games do you play?

mainly osu! but I also play CS and C&C

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yup. I prefer no prediction

7. Other relevant information:

ergonomic shape please


----------



## JonnyBigBoss

1. What's your grip style?
Finger grip.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium.
3. What's your maximum budget?
$100
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I need more than five.
5. What games do you play?
A little FPS, lots of RPG, MOBA, and Strategy.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Only if it's noticeable.
7. Do you mind about prediction?
The DeathAdder is the best mouse I've used but it doesn't have enough buttons for me. I've used the MX518 but had issues with the paintjob coming loose.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JonnyBigBoss*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Finger grip.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I need more than five.
> 5. What games do you play?
> A little FPS, lots of RPG, MOBA, and Strategy.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Only if it's noticeable.
> 7. Do you mind about prediction?
> The DeathAdder is the best mouse I've used but it doesn't have enough buttons for me. I've used the MX518 but had issues with the paintjob coming loose.


Get two seperate mice, one for fps and aiming and another for mmos


----------



## Looski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Looski*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Just want a good mouse, 80-100 doesn't matter
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not a huge downside. I haven't had extra buttons other than the 2 side buttons, so I'm not attached to them.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Everything, huge pc gamer. MMOs, shooters, and minecraft most. Then fill it in with everything else.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know specifically what this is.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I currently use a Steelseries Xai, right click doesn't work correctly and I fear being mouseless if I take her apart. I do have a 9HD mousepad which I spent a chuck of change on, so something that worked well on this type of pad would be a plus.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> I've used the Naga Molten, Naga Hex, G9x, Zowie AM and Zowie EC2 on this mouse pad and all have worked just fine. So the choice is really up to you here.


So many mouse will work on this pad, which is sweet. So back to the question of...

Which mouse is best for me.
1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip








2. What's your sensitivity?
I use a lower sensitivity on shooters, around 500dpi. On Skyrim I know I boost it up to 900dpi. When I'm browsing the computer not playing a game, I use the 900dpi.

I was looking at the Zowie AM, but have read its better for high dpi players and on the video review saw the right and left buttons hit each other in shooters, which I play a lot of. Not that there is a perfect mouse.


----------



## cROKODILE

Mouse Buttons Hitting Each Other-problem has been fixed already. I think AM would be fine on your 9HD.

Notice that Zowie AM is significantly smaller than your Xai.

What about Sensei [RAW]?


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Looski*
> 
> So many mouse will work on this pad, which is sweet. So back to the question of...
> Which mouse is best for me.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I use a lower sensitivity on shooters, around 500dpi. On Skyrim I know I boost it up to 900dpi. When I'm browsing the computer not playing a game, I use the 900dpi.
> I was looking at the Zowie AM, but have read its better for high dpi players and on the video review saw the right and left buttons hit each other in shooters, which I play a lot of. Not that there is a perfect mouse.


The CPI steps of the AM (480ish, 1200ish and 2300) make it suitable for a variety of sensitivities, provided you can adjust it in-game.

As stated before, the overlapping buttons issue was resolved quite fast from Zowie.

Considering those points, the AM is a potential candidate if you don't mind stiffer buttons than most mice have.

You could also check Abyssus, depending on the surface you're using.


----------



## Looski

I watched some video reviews and read what you have posted, I think I'm going to go with the Zowie am. I have one final question, and that is *does the AM have prediction?* I just can't deal with steelseries again, I haven't had one piece of equipment that has lastest longer than 2 years except my mouse pad, which I love. (It just looks queer with their logo everywhere on it). Thank you so much for your knowledge, and I have one more challenge:

I want to buy my father a mouse, he has been using the same mouse since 2003 I think, his right click hasn't worked in 2 years and he has pieces of scotch tape everywhere. So here is his stats:

1. What's your grip style?
palm
2. What's your sensitivity?
doesn't matter
3. What's your maximum budget?
up to $100
4. Do you want additional buttons?
not needed
5. What games do you play?
none. He works in ms office a lot. Emails, web, excel. He is on the computer the whole day.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Doesn't matter in his case
7. Other relevant information:
He currently is using a giveaway tiny mouse pad which has the corners cut off because it caught his mouse. The pad is almost the same size as the mouse at this point, so a new pad would be nice. Nothing extremely fancy since he is just works and doesn't game. Also nothing that is bright green







Oh and wireless is a plus for him

His current mouse:










I saw the Logitech Perfomance Mouse MX, seems like a large palm mouse. Its also a $100. More than I payed for my xai /shrug http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/performance-mouse-mx If anyone has any expirence in this type of mouse, then please help.


----------



## DeMS

Zowie AM has no prediction. In fact, the tracking quality of the mouse is very good in all aspects but some minor jitter at 2300CPI.

As for your father, if he's using a wireless, you might be looking at another wireless or a mouse with a very nimble cord.

Since he ain't going to play many games (I presume), wireless could be an interesting (and probably preferrable) option, so I would recommend you to check those :

G700
Razer Mamba

Even though the one you posted is an excellent choice aswell


----------



## Looski

Alright, I think I made up my own mind and am going with the Logitech MX. I bought a logitech VX for my laptop in 2006 when they first came out and it works great to this day. If a mouse can make it through my college and early professional days and still work great, I will reinvest to its newer larger brother. I have no idea what type of sensor this thing uses and if I should purchase cloth, plastic, glass or aluminum pad. If I don't buy him something he will use this mouse on a scrappy POS and I refuse such nonsense. I was thinking just a simple QCK.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Looski*
> 
> Alright, I think I made up my own mind and am going with the Logitech MX. I bought a logitech VX for my laptop in 2006 when they first came out and it works great to this day. If a mouse can make it through my college and early professional days and still work great, I will reinvest to its newer larger brother. I have no idea what type of sensor this thing uses and if I should purchase cloth, plastic, glass or aluminum pad. If I don't buy him something he will use this mouse on a scrappy POS and I refuse such nonsense. I was thinking just a simple QCK.


It has a Darkfield sensor, which is not very known for it's gaming capabilites, so it didn't get much interest around here.

However, the sensor was designed to track on pretty much any surface, so presumably any mouse surface might do.

If your parent is working on a bureau and wants something stylish for when people comes, you might wanna check one of those safety-glass SteelSeries Experience mousepads, they look really good, stylish and professional.

If he works at a more private area, any comfortable mousepad will do for him. Even if being redundant, I'll say it again : mind that it is comfortable


----------



## NuFon

You could also get him a fancy leather pad for comfort.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1254822/nupad-leather-mouse-pad-mini-review


----------



## paulcall

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
I'm fine with anything above medium sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, I only need at least two.

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure if it will screw up my aim, but if it does, yes.

7. Other relevant information:
Preferably I like a wired mouse and my hands are large by the way.


----------



## Vanaru

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium
3. What's your maximum budget?
None
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Preferably, I currently use a cheapo logitech, and it's dying so I figured I'd upgrade.
5. What games do you play?
WoW, SWTOR, Minecraft, FPS, everything, really
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really, just not so much that it's a huge difference
7. Other info:
I've always just used $5 walmart mice, and I think it's time for an upgrade, as I'm getting more and more into PC gaming (been a 360 advocate for years)


----------



## Tunechi

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Usually use default or medium

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Don't want to go anywhere above $80

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Just at least 1 or 2 buttons on the left for Teamspeak 3/Ventrilo hotkey

*5. What games do you play?*
FPS, TPS, Action-MMORPG such as APB: Reloaded, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, Planetside 2, Continent of the Ninth, planning on playing Mercenary Ops and GunZ 2

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes, I don't want prediction if it will hinder my aim.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Some mouses I've looked at that I really liked are the ROCCAT Kone+ and Tt eSports Theron. I want a medium sized mouse similar to those with ergonomics for the right hand, the way it indents on the left side for your thumb, but I do not want a thumb rest like the G500 or any kind of finger rest for the pinky. I also don't want an awkward and long mouse like the Deathadder or Mamba. I want some type of rubberized grip to the mouse. I will probably be using 1600 DPI, so DPI shouldn't be an issue. I'm going to use the mouse on a black mousepad for now, but I will probably get a Qck Steelseries mousepad. I don't like the smooth top/back like the g500 has. Being able to have the color blue for a LED would be very nice. Optical or laser doesn't really matter to me. The mouse also needs to either be around 130g or have adjustable weights. The overly customizable or whatever mouses like the RAT or has a thumb grip that just pops out like that looks awful to me. Wired is a 100% must to me as well.

Pretty long, but wanted to be as descriptive as possible, thanks in advanced to anybody that helps.


----------



## steezebe

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
My hand isn't the steadiest, so i have to go for the low side otherwise the mouse wiggles everywhere

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I gotta have that back button!

5. What games do you play?
Skyrim, Fallout, Skyrim, Battlefield, Skyrim. Starcraft and Skyrim sometimes too.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Uh. no?

7. Other relevant information:
-I hate wires (clutter drives me nuts, and I need all the space on the desk for my clutter!) ergo wireless is mandatory.
-I don't like to move my hand around much, ergo a good shape for my right hand.
-I have a very large hand, ergo small mice are a NO NO.
-I don't like the gaming-style stuff. The cheap and bulky is gross to me, so I avoid the ones that look like they were put together with random pieces of plastic.

With all of this in mind, I ended up with the Logitech 570 Wireless Trackball Mouse. It's AMAZING. I never had a trackball mouse, but this thing is fantastic. I had a lenovo laptop and became addicted to the red clit mouse in the keyboard, so having a mouse that I could use with my thumb for similarity was a welcome familiarity. I really like this mouse because of it's comfort, the two side buttons (which I can customize in games) and the design is completely smooth. And wireless







. And I can use it anywhere, on a pillow, my leg, the desk, without a mouse pad or even a flat surface!

I use it for web surfing, but more importantly CAD work and coding. Not much excel work or other stuff that requires horizontal scrolling, especially since I have three monitors, so a basic scroll was fine too.

It works well for gaming, but it wouldn't work well for the BF/MW3 gamer who needs a perfect accuracy. I've heard rumors of it being 800 dpi, but other reviews have it at 1600+. all I know is that it isn't some 6000 dpi razer mouse.

It's a different consideration from the normal 'mouse' but it was perfect for me. I've had it for about two years, and I plan on having it for a long time! especially since I haven't changed the batteries on it yet.


----------



## oboetoke

1. *What's your grip style?*

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

low -medium

3. What's your maximum budget?

60-70$

4. Do you want additional buttons?

sure

5. What games do you play?

diablo 3, heroes of newerth

6. Do you mind about prediction?

nope

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.qreless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## r4pture

1. What's your grip style?

Claw during gaming, palm/claw for casual browsing

2. What's your sensitivity?

Looooow. 400/800DPI, lowest settings in game

3. What's your maximum budget?

70ish, somewhat flexible

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Yes, two on the side are a must

5. What games do you play?

FPS games. TF2 and some CS, a little Starcraft 2, mostly worried about FPS performance

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I've had it on all my previous mice, but would rather not having it from now on. No angle snapping, no hardware acceleration.

7. Other relevant information:

I have used *NOTHING* but the classic Logitech MX510/518/G400 shape for almost 7-9 years, so I am very used to it. I am on edge about switching to a new shape, but the low quality of the recent G400s give me little choice.

I've had some interest in the CM Storm Sentinel Advance II because of its new sensor, but have never used a laser mouse before. At my low dpi settings from what I can see there are no acceleration or angle snapping issues, unless I'm mistaken? Also open to other suggestions.

HALP.


----------



## HiCZoK

1. What's your grip style?
It depends. Claw on small mouse, palm+claw combination on bigger
2. What's your sensitivity?
800min 1600max
3. What's your maximum budget?
50$ max
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I don't care. Back button would be nice,
5. What games do you play?
Everything and plenty of web browsing
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know specifically what this is.
7. Other relevant information:
I think I like big mouse. Not something flat?


----------



## percilitor

1. What's your grip style?
palm but not by choice (deathadder too big for my hands to do much else)

2. What's your sensitivity?
3500dpi though wouldn't mind option to go higher

3. What's your maximum budget?
i'd like to keep in around $70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
at least 5

5. What games do you play?
LoL, maybe get back into mmo's eventually

6. Do you mind about prediction?
i like how my deathadder tracks

7. Other relevant information:
i like my deathadder but i feel that it's too big for my hands, i'm looking for a smaller, lighter mouse with similar features.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *percilitor*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> palm but not by choice (deathadder too big for my hands to do much else)
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3500dpi though wouldn't mind option to go higher
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> i'd like to keep in around $70
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> at least 5
> 5. What games do you play?
> LoL, maybe get back into mmo's eventually
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> i like how my deathadder tracks
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i like my deathadder but i feel that it's too big for my hands, i'm looking for a smaller, lighter mouse with similar features.


The Naga Hex is smaller than the Deathadder and has 6 additional buttons on the left and the 2 forward and back buttons below the scroll wheel. It was made for games like LoL if you're willing to learn to use the buttons. I'm too engrained in how I play LoL to use them, but I used the buttons in D3 and use them in GW2. There's also the Cyborg MMO but that takes some getting used to and adjustments. Still figuring out how best to adjust my Cyborg for my hand to give it a fair look.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiCZoK*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> It depends. Claw on small mouse, palm+claw combination on bigger
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800min 1600max
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 50$ max
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I don't care. Back button would be nice,
> 5. What games do you play?
> Everything and plenty of web browsing
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know specifically what this is.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I think I like big mouse. Not something flat?


Could try the Logitech G400 or Razer Deathadder.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r4pture*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw during gaming, palm/claw for casual browsing
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Looooow. 400/800DPI, lowest settings in game
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 70ish, somewhat flexible
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, two on the side are a must
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS games. TF2 and some CS, a little Starcraft 2, mostly worried about FPS performance
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I've had it on all my previous mice, but would rather not having it from now on. No angle snapping, no hardware acceleration.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have used *NOTHING* but the classic Logitech MX510/518/G400 shape for almost 7-9 years, so I am very used to it. I am on edge about switching to a new shape, but the low quality of the recent G400s give me little choice.
> I've had some interest in the CM Storm Sentinel Advance II because of its new sensor, but have never used a laser mouse before. At my low dpi settings from what I can see there are no acceleration or angle snapping issues, unless I'm mistaken? Also open to other suggestions.
> HALP.


To avoid changing the shape on you too much, you could look at the G9x or some of the Cyborg mice. I don't know too much about larger mice but they might be worth a look.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunechi*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?
> *
> Palm grip
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?
> *
> Usually use default or medium
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?
> *
> Don't want to go anywhere above $80
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *
> 
> Just at least 1 or 2 buttons on the left for Teamspeak 3/Ventrilo hotkey
> 
> *5. What games do you play?
> *
> 
> FPS, TPS, Action-MMORPG such as APB: Reloaded, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, Planetside 2, Continent of the Ninth, planning on playing Mercenary Ops and GunZ 2
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *
> Yes, I don't want prediction if it will hinder my aim.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:
> *
> 
> Some mouses I've looked at that I really liked are the ROCCAT Kone+ and Tt eSports Theron. I want a medium sized mouse similar to those with ergonomics for the right hand, the way it indents on the left side for your thumb, but I do not want a thumb rest like the G500 or any kind of finger rest for the pinky. I also don't want an awkward and long mouse like the Deathadder or Mamba. I want some type of rubberized grip to the mouse. I will probably be using 1600 DPI, so DPI shouldn't be an issue. I'm going to use the mouse on a black mousepad for now, but I will probably get a Qck Steelseries mousepad. I don't like the smooth top/back like the g500 has. Being able to have the color blue for a LED would be very nice. Optical or laser doesn't really matter to me. The mouse also needs to either be around 130g or have adjustable weights. The overly customizable or whatever mouses like the RAT or has a thumb grip that just pops out like that looks awful to me. Wired is a 100% must to me as well.
> 
> Pretty long, but wanted to be as descriptive as possible, thanks in advanced to anybody that helps.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153079

This may work for ya, or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826580003


----------



## Dunan

*1. What's your grip style?*

Claw or fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Medium to low

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Don't have one as long as the mouse is worth it

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Have to have side buttons on left side but none on right. Don't want to press the right side buttons by accident

*5. What games do you play?*

Pretty much 1st/3rd person only, no RTS

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction and no acceleration

*7. Other relevant information:*

Want an optical mouse that fits this criteria with an updated sensor that isnt small and can change the sensitivity on the fly and has GOOD build quality.

Everytime I think I find a mouse with a good build the sensor sucks and vice versa or theres no sensitivity adjustment and limited software etc.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Hey guys
I am feeling urges to upgrade my mouse as it is easily the oldest part in my system, the famous Intellimouse


1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
I think my current mouse is 400DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
50 euroes

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Maybe 1 or 2, not really important.

5. What games do you play?
Mainly League of Legends

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Dunno? I like how my Intellimouse performs, I'm not sure if it uses prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
I have very sweaty hands








I prefer mice with cords. Don't like replacing batteries, and batteries usually lose their charge over time (I want my new mouse to last many more years).

I saw the Deathadder thread, and it looks nice (as in a similar shape to my current mouse), however I understand that it gets soggy with sweat? Sounds gross.


----------



## percilitor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by percilitor
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> palm but not by choice (deathadder too big for my hands to do much else)
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3500dpi though wouldn't mind option to go higher
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> i'd like to keep in around $70
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> at least 5
> 5. What games do you play?
> LoL, maybe get back into mmo's eventually
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> i like how my deathadder tracks
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i like my deathadder but i feel that it's too big for my hands, i'm looking for a smaller, lighter mouse with similar features.


Quote:


> The Naga Hex is smaller than the Deathadder and has 6 additional buttons on the left and the 2 forward and back buttons below the scroll wheel. It was made for games like LoL if you're willing to learn to use the buttons. I'm too engrained in how I play LoL to use them, but I used the buttons in D3 and use them in GW2. There's also the Cyborg MMO but that takes some getting used to and adjustments. Still figuring out how best to adjust my Cyborg for my hand to give it a fair look.
> Could try the Logitech G400 or Razer Deathadder.
> To avoid changing the shape on you too much, you could look at the G9x or some of the Cyborg mice. I don't know too much about larger mice but they might be worth a look.


i misread the additional buttons as number of buttons, i only need 2 additional ones. would that change the recommendations?


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *percilitor*
> 
> i misread the additional buttons as number of buttons, i only need 2 additional ones. would that change the recommendations?


Yes, this would open you up to far more options due to a lack in the number of mice with more than 2 side buttons. If you are palming because the Deathadder is too big, I would assume you'd use more of a fingertip grip and recommend the Zowie AM. It is my favorite mouse to date, and will be going back to using it after giving the Cyborg MMO 7 a fair shot. The Zowie AM is comfortable, driverless, and not too large. It is a flatter mouse so I find it easier to fingertip/claw grip. The mouse moves very smooth, on screen and on the mousepad. It lacks a high number of DPI settings, only having 3, but I kind of prefer not being overburdened with a high number of DPI possibilities. I believe its max DPI is 2000, so if you are set on having over 3500, you could still go with the G9x if you like a wider mouse.

Some less recommended mice but ones that may suit your needs if you're not too picky are the SteelSeries Sensei, the CM Storm Spawn, Razer Abyssus, Corsair Vengence M60, CM Storm Sentinel Advance II, and those I mentioned in my previous post.

Everyones' tastes are different. Some like aesthetics, others ergonomics, and others functionality. After my meeting here at work I'm gonna take a look into seeing if we have any information on the forum that I can post to help clarify some things, if I should start a new thread, or if I need to take this one over. I seem to be one of the few people making suggestions these days









Hope this helps Perc.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

What is the surface of the Zowie AM like? Is it rubber/rough/glossy?


----------



## Vikhr

It's a smooth rubber finish.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> It's a smooth rubber finish.


The smooth rubber is real nice on it. It gives you a good grip on the mouse without irritating your hand.


----------



## NuFon

I feel like the rubber on the AM only gives good grip when your hands get warm and moist, when I try to grip it with my cold and dry hand it slips a lot.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> I feel like the rubber on the AM only gives good grip when your hands get warm and moist, when I try to grip it with my cold and dry hand it slips a lot.


Haven't had this issue myself but good to know.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

1. What's your grip style?
Between Fingertip and Palm.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I cross my 1920 resolution in about 2-3cm.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No limit.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
The usual 4-5 are enough but of course I wouldn't mind if it has more buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Everything from strategy(real strategy hexfield & turn based) over MMOs and Sims to FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
There shouldn't anything in that prohibits a 1:1 realization of my movements, if such features are in it must be possible to turn them off.

7. Other relevant information:
-Ergonomic for right hander.
-Sensor in the middle, I once tried one that hat the sensor moved closer to the thumb and I couldn't get used to it.
-Cable bot wireless.
-Always on, no sleepmode or if such mode is in it must be able to turn it off or set the delay high so sensor isn't constantly going on/off.
-If lights are thereit must be possible to turn them off.
-Shouldn't have problems with fabric pads(Zowie P-TF).


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Between Fingertip and Palm.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I cross my 1920 resolution in about 2-3cm.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No limit.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> The usual 4-5 are enough but of course I wouldn't mind if it has more buttons.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Everything from strategy(real strategy hexfield & turn based) over MMOs and Sims to FPS.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> There shouldn't anything in that prohibits a 1:1 realization of my movements, if such features are in it must be possible to turn them off.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> -Ergonomic for right hander.
> -Sensor in the middle, I once tried one that hat the sensor moved closer to the thumb and I couldn't get used to it.
> -Cable bot wireless.
> -Always on, no sleepmode or if such mode is in it must be able to turn it off or set the delay high so sensor isn't constantly going on/off.
> -If lights are thereit must be possible to turn them off.
> -Shouldn't have problems with fabric pads(Zowie P-TF).


Razer Deathadder, Roccat Savu, Logitech G400


----------



## ChromeBeauty

One thing I'm hearing again and again is that above 800DPI the G400 isn't good, so not good for me as highsenser?

Savu seems to have a serious mousewheel problem and the the deathadders left mouse button problem is the reason that I currently looking for a new mouse.


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> One thing I'm hearing again and again is that above 800DPI the G400 isn't good, so not good for me as highsenser?
> Savu seems to have a serious mousewheel problem and the the deathadders left mouse button problem is the reason that I currently looking for a new mouse.


Why couldn't you play high sens with an 800 dpi mouse, ppl did for years. Unless it being slow in windows would drive you crazy.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Never tried my DA with a so low DPI setting, simply thought that for me 3600DPI works best under Windows so I never bothered to use a different DPI setting for games. Maybe I should try it, I guess an FPS like FEAR3 would be a good testing ground.


----------



## bradkami

1. What's your grip style?
mixture of palm / claw (not full claw)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Depends on the mouse ;|

3. What's your maximum budget?
I have no Max budget.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 Buttons on the left side of the mouse (i'm a righty)

5. What games do you play?
Professional Counter-Strike, Guild Wars 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I want the best tracking possible, if prediction does not give me this I do not want it

7. Other relevant information:
I am an ex-professional CS 1.6 player. I moved to MMO's and now I am going back to CS Go. My mice are outdated and I have not had any luck with laser mice. I am looking for the best mouse on the market with 2 side buttons on the left side of the mouse with the most accurate / best quality sensor. The team is getting back together for CS:Go and I need something rather quickly. I do not like the steelseries Sensei, i do not like the g400, and the deathadder is ok but not fantastic in my opinion. I am used to playing with the MX300 and old school microsoft mice. I also just tried the Razer Taipan and absolutely hate it... Thanks for the help.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bradkami*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> mixture of palm / claw (not full claw)
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Depends on the mouse ;|
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> I have no Max budget.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 Buttons on the left side of the mouse (i'm a righty)
> 5. What games do you play?
> Professional Counter-Strike, Guild Wars 2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I want the best tracking possible, if prediction does not give me this I do not want it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I am an ex-professional CS 1.6 player. I moved to MMO's and now I am going back to CS Go. My mice are outdated and I have not had any luck with laser mice. I am looking for the best mouse on the market with 2 side buttons on the left side of the mouse with the most accurate / best quality sensor. The team is getting back together for CS:Go and I need something rather quickly. I do not like the steelseries Sensei, i do not like the g400, and the deathadder is ok but not fantastic in my opinion. I am used to playing with the MX300 and old school microsoft mice. I also just tried the Razer Taipan and absolutely hate it... Thanks for the help.


Maybe you should consider the Roccat Savu, the Zowie AM or for full claw, the CM Storm Spawn


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> One thing I'm hearing again and again is that above 800DPI the G400 isn't good, so not good for me as highsenser?
> *Savu seems to have a serious mousewheel problem* and the the deathadders left mouse button problem is the reason that I currently looking for a new mouse.


Where did you get that info?









Mine is fine after around one quarter million mousewheel actuations (up & down).


----------



## Skylit

Things or problems you "hear" effect every mouse.

luck of the draw really.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Well over here it seems famous for this problem.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Things or problems you "hear" effect every mouse.
> luck of the draw really.


Yes and no.

Roccat is known for their mousewheel failing in earlier models -higher malfunction rate than other brands-, yet there have still not been reports of this happening on the Savu (probably other mice on the Roccat lineup are also "cured" of this).

That's why I asked his source, it would be the first I've heard this about the Savu having abnormally high mousewheel failure ratio.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> Well over here it seems famous for this problem.


Quote or URL?


----------



## tamtam402

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bradkami*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> mixture of palm / claw (not full claw)
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Depends on the mouse ;|
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> I have no Max budget.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 Buttons on the left side of the mouse (i'm a righty)
> 5. What games do you play?
> Professional Counter-Strike, Guild Wars 2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I want the best tracking possible, if prediction does not give me this I do not want it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I am an ex-professional CS 1.6 player. I moved to MMO's and now I am going back to CS Go. My mice are outdated and I have not had any luck with laser mice. I am looking for the best mouse on the market with 2 side buttons on the left side of the mouse with the most accurate / best quality sensor. The team is getting back together for CS:Go and I need something rather quickly. I do not like the steelseries Sensei, i do not like the g400, and the deathadder is ok but not fantastic in my opinion. I am used to playing with the MX300 and old school microsoft mice. I also just tried the Razer Taipan and absolutely hate it... Thanks for the help.


Intellimouse 1.1 or Explorer 3.0 @ 500 Hz if you don't play with a stupidly low sensitivity and don't mind 400DPI. This is the sensor that won the most tournament games in Quake and Counter-Strike, and the mice aren't outdated at all. I'm still waiting for a mouse that will surpass these, since they aren't without flaws. (Explorer 3.0 sometimes develop a double-click problem on mouse1 and the cords are quite stiff and heavy)

Wheel Mouse Optical (WMO) is another great mouse but it doesn't have any side buttons.


----------



## cROKODILE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> *Savu seems to have a serious mousewheel problem* and the the deathadders left mouse button problem is the reason that I currently looking for a new mouse.


Kone! Not Savu!


----------



## Jcoast

I posted a couple months ago, and no one has helped me, so I hope it's ok if I just post again so people can see my post.

1. What's your grip?
Palm mostly, but sometimes I'll go to a hybrid between palm and fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't know. I've never owned a gaming mouse before, so anything that would allow me to be versatile and find my sweet spot would be nice. I generally set my games on medium to high sensitivity though, but that can cause A problem when using a sniper rifle or bow in games. Anything that would have a button for changing sensitivity between 2 or more profiles would be great, and I really like how the M60 has a "sniper" button.

3. What's your maximum budget?
none.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Sure, but Not a lot. I don't play MMO's.

5. What games do you play?
FPSRPG's, FPS, and no MMO's.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. Please no prediction.

7. I Like a lighter mouse, and any mouse that would let me customize the weight would be even better. Like I stated under question 2, something that would let me easily change dpi on the fly straight from the mouse is a MUST. Since I don't play any MMO's, I don't need a lot of macros but extra buttons to assign to copy/paste would be cool. I was looking at the M60 due to its adjustable DPI, lack of huge macros, adjustable weight, dpi changes from the mouse, good looks, comfy to palm,and its good price. That's The mouse I'm most leaning tword, but if anyone has anything better, please speak up!


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jcoast*
> 
> I posted a couple months ago, and no one has helped me, so I hope it's ok if I just post again so people can see my post.
> 1. What's your grip?
> Palm mostly, but sometimes I'll go to a hybrid between palm and fingertip.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I don't know. I've never owned a gaming mouse before, so anything that would allow me to be versatile and find my sweet spot would be nice. I generally set my games on medium to high sensitivity though, but that can cause A problem when using a sniper rifle or bow in games. Anything that would have a button for changing sensitivity between 2 or more profiles would be great, and I really like how the M60 has a "sniper" button.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> none.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Sure, but Not a lot. I don't play MMO's.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPSRPG's, FPS, and no MMO's.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. Please no prediction.
> 7. I Like a lighter mouse, and any mouse that would let me customize the weight would be even better. Like I stated under question 2, something that would let me easily change dpi on the fly straight from the mouse is a MUST. Since I don't play any MMO's, I don't need a lot of macros but extra buttons to assign to copy/paste would be cool. I was looking at the M60 due to its adjustable DPI, lack of huge macros, adjustable weight, dpi changes from the mouse, good looks, comfy to palm,and its good price. That's The mouse I'm most leaning tword, but if anyone has anything better, please speak up!


All mice with the option of putting weights in are generally heavier, even without weights.
Logitech G400, Razer Deathadder, Roccat Savu.


----------



## Glouffer

Hi OCN

I need some advice on which gaming mouse I should buy, since a need another one. I already have a Steelseries Xai, but I need a secondary mouse for various things. So I have decided to buy a new primary mouse and use the Xai as my secondary.

1. What's your grip style?
Fingergrip ATM, but I am very adaptable regarding these area's. Though I have tried quite a few mice over the year and have grown very fond of the ambidextrous design but also like the kind of DA design.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I'd say my sensitivity preference would be mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
No budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Sure, but not MMO style

5. What games do you play?
A bit of everything, but want it optimized for FPS-gaming

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I'd like there to be as little prediction as possible

- Have looked at the Razer Taipan and Zowie AM so far, but I still lost regarding a determination of which mouse I should buy.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glouffer*
> 
> Hi OCN
> I need some advice on which gaming mouse I should buy, since a need another one. I already have a Steelseries Xai, but I need a secondary mouse for various things. So I have decided to buy a new primary mouse and use the Xai as my secondary.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingergrip ATM, but I am very adaptable regarding these area's. Though I have tried quite a few mice over the year and have grown very fond of the ambidextrous design but also like the kind of DA design.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I'd say my sensitivity preference would be mid
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No budget
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Sure, but not MMO style
> 5. What games do you play?
> A bit of everything, but want it optimized for FPS-gaming
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I'd like there to be as little prediction as possible
> - Have looked at the Razer Taipan and Zowie AM so far, but I still lost regarding a determination of which mouse I should buy.


I really like the Zowie AM and prefer its simple DPI settings. The cord isn't stiff and I prefer its soft rubber feel to the the hard glossy surface of other mice. If you like ambidextrous mice I'd recommend the Zowie AM.


----------



## Glouffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> I really like the Zowie AM and prefer its simple DPI settings. The cord isn't stiff and I prefer its soft rubber feel to the the hard glossy surface of other mice. If you like ambidextrous mice I'd recommend the Zowie AM.


Thanks for the input, and I am also considering it alot.

What mousepad do you use with it?


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glouffer*
> 
> Thanks for the input, and I am also considering it alot.
> What mousepad do you use with it?


Currently use on this pad:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NIGDX0/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

Also used on this pad:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001O867XG/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

Worked just fine on both, I'm just not a fan of cloth pads as they dirty quickly.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Currently use on this pad:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NIGDX0/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00
> Also used on this pad:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001O867XG/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
> Worked just fine on both, I'm just not a fan of cloth pads as they dirty quickly.


Well getting dirty is not a problem if you clean the mousepad







Machine or by hand


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> Well getting dirty is not a problem if you clean the mousepad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Machine or by hand


Ain't got time for all that nonsense when I'm playin LoL


----------



## NuFon

Ofcourse you dont clean it wile playing







I atleast have a backup pad


----------



## duox

I'm having a nightmare deciding if I want to get a shooter mouse or mmo mouse. Id get bot but i hate crawling behind my desk to switch them. Problem is I switch between both kinds of games constantly. If only there was a 4 side button optical mouse worth a flip.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> I'm having a nightmare deciding if I want to get a shooter mouse or mmo mouse. Id get bot but i hate crawling behind my desk to switch them. Problem is I switch between both kinds of games constantly. If only there was a 4 side button optical mouse worth a flip.


Logitech G400 or Roccat savu maybe.
With the G400 you can bind your mmo keys to the dpi buttons on top of the mouse, but ofcourse those can be quite hard to reach.
The Roccat Savu has easy shift so you can bind a button to be an easy shift button and that makes all the other buttons have a second purpose.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> I'm having a nightmare deciding if I want to get a shooter mouse or mmo mouse. Id get bot but i hate crawling behind my desk to switch them. Problem is I switch between both kinds of games constantly. If only there was a 4 side button optical mouse worth a flip.


Any particular form factor, dpi, or other particulars you need it to hard?


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Any particular form factor, dpi, or other particulars you need it to hard?


I guess the dream would be a death adder with 4 side buttons instead of 2. The problem is I plan on playing guild wars 2 and cs go at the same time and finding a mouse to suit both in a competitive nature is hard. This g500 was fine for swtor and monday night combat/gotham city impostors. But I doubt it will cut it in a shooter that decent people actually play haha.


----------



## mohit9206

hey guys this is the mouse i own ..is it any good..i like to play games on my pc..
http://www.ebay.in/itm/Zebronics-ZEB-M05U-USB-Optical-scroll-mouse-/180719107687


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> hey guys this is the mouse i own ..is it any good..i like to play games on my pc..
> http://www.ebay.in/itm/Zebronics-ZEB-M05U-USB-Optical-scroll-mouse-/180719107687


From what I can tell it seems like a basic mouse. There isn't a lot of information on the ebay page, but as long as it is comfortable and responsive enough for you that's all that matters. The ideal situation is that your hand is able to grip the mouse comfortably for the amount of time you are using your computer, and the mouse reacts to your movements in a fashion that you are comfortable with.

Is there something about it that you don't like that has you considering a new mouse?

Based on your link provided you're in India, so I'm not sure what's available to you if you wanted to get something different. If you do decide to ask for a suggestion on a new mouse, please answer the questions in the original post in a new post


----------



## duox

just ordered a qck mass because it was the cheapest cloth pad on newegg lol. Switching from a razer megasoma so going to be quite a change , but if i dont like it i will use it to put under my megasoma haha. Anyways I decided to go with an optical mouse over an mmo mouse cause frankly if I can play swtor with a keyboard and 3 mouse side buttons I can play any other mmo with 2 or no side buttons. (SWTOR Vanguard used around 25-35 skills in any given pvp fight). So on that note I am simply deciding between the Deathadder and G400. Deathadder is more comfortable but I am used to 800 dpi so I am a bit torn.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> just ordered a qck mass because it was the cheapest cloth pad on newegg lol. Switching from a razer megasoma so going to be quite a change , but if i dont like it i will use it to put under my megasoma haha. Anyways I decided to go with an optical mouse over an mmo mouse cause frankly if I can play swtor with a keyboard and 3 mouse side buttons I can play any other mmo with 2 or no side buttons. (SWTOR Vanguard used around 25-35 skills in any given pvp fight). So on that note I am simply deciding between the Deathadder and G400. Deathadder is more comfortable but I am used to 800 dpi so I am a bit torn.


Not sure how you feel about it, but you could always just change the in-game sensitivity to where you like it. Their site doesn't list the lowest DPI setting you can adjust it to using their software, but I know I can do that on my Naga Hex. The downside is you can only adjust the DPI in increments of 100. From looking at reviews on newegg.com, I believe the lowest DPI setting via software is 450 DPI.


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Not sure how you feel about it, but you could always just change the in-game sensitivity to where you like it. Their site doesn't list the lowest DPI setting you can adjust it to using their software, but I know I can do that on my Naga Hex. The downside is you can only adjust the DPI in increments of 100. From looking at reviews on newegg.com, I believe the lowest DPI setting via software is 450 DPI.


From what I read the ideal dpi for the DA is 1800 and ideal for the G400 is 800. I can no longer deal with the acceleration that plagues laser mice, to many kills left on the field in the shooters I play cause my mouse goes farther than it should have haha.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> From what I read the ideal dpi for the DA is 1800 and ideal for the G400 is 800. I can no longer deal with the acceleration that plagues laser mice, to many kills left on the field in the shooters I play cause my mouse goes farther than it should have haha.


Yeah like I said, its all about having the sensitivity where you like it. We've all gotta go with what is best for us. There's also the option of having 2 mice hooked up at the same time. I think I have a Naga Hex and Zowie AM plugged into my rig atm. All depends what you're willing/able to do. Just ordered 2 more mice too; hoping to be able to sit down and write some reviews on them for the site soon.


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Yeah like I said, its all about having the sensitivity where you like it. We've all gotta go with what is best for us. There's also the option of having 2 mice hooked up at the same time. I think I have a Naga Hex and Zowie AM plugged into my rig atm. All depends what you're willing/able to do. Just ordered 2 more mice too; hoping to be able to sit down and write some reviews on them for the site soon.


How do you instal 2 at once , and does it let you turn one off? When I install 2 mice my keyboard and first mouse shut themselves off.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> How do you instal 2 at once , and does it let you turn one off? When I install 2 mice my keyboard and first mouse shut themselves off.


I've actually never had that happen. I've had 3 keyboards and 2 mice all plugged in before with no issues. I just plugged the second one in and off I went.


----------



## duox

Went with the deathadder, put my old broken one in my hand and remembered how it actually kept my wrist off the mouse at, I tend to rest it on the mat with my g500. We will find out if razers quality control has improve in the past few years lol.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> Went with the deathadder, put my old broken one in my hand and remembered how it actually kept my wrist off the mouse at, I tend to rest it on the mat with my g500. We will find out if razers quality control has improve in the past few years lol.


Very nice. I've got a Mionix and Steelseries on the way, hoping to find a new favorite mouse







Also want more mice to compare before I do my reviews.


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Very nice. I've got a Mionix and Steelseries on the way, hoping to find a new favorite mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also want more mice to compare before I do my reviews.


Ya I just realize yesterday I was resting my wrist and aiming with that ,I figured I would change everything up to try and fix this.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> Ya I just realize yesterday I was resting my wrist and aiming with that ,I figured I would change everything up to try and fix this.


I use a mouse wrist rest to allow me to rest my wrist and maintain a decent posture, helps a little bit


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> *Fingertip.*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> *No idea.*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> *Haven't decided. Under $80?*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> *Not a must but it would be nice.*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> *Casual (EDGE, Wave, BitRunner), Racing (GRID, Dirt 3).*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> *No, but it would be nice if it didn't have any.*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> *I would prefer if it wasn't glossy.*


I don't have many preferences as this will be my first mouse I'm buying. I'm only using an old Logitech Optical Mouse I had laying around. I only do basic things (browsing) and a little bit of 3d modelling every once in awhile. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Claw or Clawpaw (check first page of clawpaw thread).
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> No idea.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $70?
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Not a must but would be nice.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Casual (mostly keyboard only), racing (Dirt 3, GRID 2 will be soon)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No but it would be nice if it didn't have any.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Hopefully not glossy. That would probably be it.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't done much research. I've taken a leave from looking at mice for about awhile so I don't know much anymore. I don't do much. Most of the games I play won't really be using the mouse (EDGE, Dirt 3, GRID). I'll probably use the keyboard or if I feel like it, a game-pad. Other than that, just some basic everyday stuff and maybe some 3D modelling or CAD when I learn it in class next month.
Click to expand...

I personally don't consider the "Clawpaw" to be a hybrid of claw and palm because the Claw grip by definition includes palm contact with the mouse. This is just my opinion obviously, but back to your question.

The Zowie AM, even the GS version, are good for the claw & fingertip grips. The GS has some glossy areas on the mouse while the plain AM has none. It is a very light mouse with no drivers and 3 DPI settings via a touch of the button underneath (450/1150/2300). I would say this is probably the ideal mouse for a casual player with a claw grip and wants it non-glossy. It is also only $50 on newegg, $20 below your budget. I like my DPI at 2300 so I find it works great for me too. It is ambidextrous as well, so it has buttons for left and right handed users but comes default for righties. Only 1 side can be active at a time, giving you 2 additional buttons. Cable is a light plastic that is easily maliable so it tends not to stick to the desk. Overall I find it a comfortable mouse at a reasonable price that works extremely well.


----------



## 161029

Sorry about that. I don't know what happened but I completely messed up. I guess I was thinking claw paw in my head after reading about it and confused myself. Updated that list, but thanks for the recommendations. Sounds like a great mouse.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> *Fingertip.*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> *No idea.*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> *Haven't decided. Under $80?*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> *Not a must but it would be nice.*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> *Casual (EDGE, Wave, BitRunner), Racing (GRID, Dirt 3).*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> *No, but it would be nice if it didn't have any.*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> *I would prefer if it wasn't glossy.*
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have many preferences as this will be my first mouse I'm buying. I'm only using an old Logitech Optical Mouse I had laying around. I only do basic things (browsing) and a little bit of 3d modelling every once in awhile. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


----------



## Emissary of Pain

Hey all ...

I was looking at replacing my current POS mouse the CM Z3Ro-G and have the following available ... which would be the best

*:: EXTRA INFO ::*

*1. What's your grip style?*

ClawPaw ... I grip with the tips of my fingers, the mouse does not touch my palm and the back of the mouse sits against the heel of my hand ... or I claw completely

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Currently i game on 5600dpi and have gotten used to it ... ... I would prefer a higher DPI (most new mice are adjustable anyway) but without interpolation if that exists (mouse noob, sorry)

*3. Other*


I would like the side buttons to be easily pressed without effecting my aiming as I use them a ton, light actuation of the scroll wheel and L+R buttons a bonus
No or Low Acceleration
Preferably without prediction but I know this is asking a lot

*:: These are in my price range ::*

Gigabyte M8000x (R516)
Logitech G9x (R617)
Corsair M60 (R500)
Razer Deathadder Black Edition (R598)
Cyborg R.A.T. 5 (R610)

*If I really stretch the budget beyond what I am comfortable with*

Cyborg R.A.T. 7 (R800)
Razer Taipan (R800) (not a fan cause it is stuck with green as a color)
Steelseries Sensei Pro (R900)

All help would be appreciated
Kind Regards

PS: How good is the Gb Krypton


----------



## RickReaper

Hey guys! Im pretty new to gaming mice and only recently moved from my xbox to PC so im looking to get an upgrade







I currently use a logitech g400 and iv had it for about 4 years and its starting to fail me. i did some research and came up with the following list of possibilities and was wanting everyone's opinion and i am open to add to this list









- Razer deathadder/Taipan/Imperator
-Logitech G9x
- R.A.T. 5 & 7
-MIONIX NAOS 5000

also your required info









1. What's your grip style? Palm grip all the way

2. What's your sensitivity? Currently i hover around 1200 but i jump around depending on whats needed

3. What's your maximum budget? Im currently in new zealand so lets say no max >.<

4. Do you want additional buttons? i love the extra buttons on the g400 so its essential for a min of 7

5. What games do you play? CSS, Fallout, Borderlands, pretty much all FPS but also RTS

6. Do you mind about prediction? Maybe? dont know about it tbh...

7. Other relevant information:
Right hand mouse
Weight: The option to add/subtract would be nice
I prefer a wire mouse to wireless mouse.
Glossy finish: No, I want a rough side mouse to help me use the mouse for a long time without sliding. )
Driverless: driver or not is not really a matter but the mouse must work well without out driver.
onboard memory: Yes
i also anchor my wrist

i am looking to get a new mouse so dont say stick with the g400







i know its a good mouse but im sick of it.

any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## NuFon

The Deathadder would be nice for you


----------



## w00tdafuq

.....


----------



## Icarian

I'm looking for a new mouse, I've been using a Logitech G5 for the last 4 years and I want to try something new.

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip mostly. sometimes I switch to something in between fingertip and palm, but rarely.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Been using 800 DPI since I got the G5, but something a lil faster would help, so 800~1200 would be perfect,

*What's your maximum budget?*
No more than $80 if possible, unless it's something so good that justifies it.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Two side buttons is enough.

*What games do you play?*
Bit of everything FPS, MMOs, Sandboxes. etc.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Does a driverless G5 have it? if not, I don't want it, if yes, then I don't care.

*Other relevant information:*
I don't want it to be glossy. for obvious reasons.
Black color is a plus.
No bigger than a G5.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icarian*
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse, I've been using a Logitech G5 for the last 4 years and I want to try something new.
> *What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip mostly. sometimes I switch to something in between fingertip and palm, but rarely.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Been using 800 DPI since I got the G5, but something a lil faster would help, so 800~1200 would be perfect,
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> No more than $80 if possible, unless it's something so good that justifies it.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Two side buttons is enough.
> *What games do you play?*
> Bit of everything FPS, MMOs, Sandboxes. etc.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Does a driverless G5 have it? if not, I don't want it, if yes, then I don't care.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I don't want it to be glossy. for obvious reasons.
> Black color is a plus.
> No bigger than a G5.


The G400 has the exact same shape as the G5 but a little different scroll and button placement


----------



## w00tdafuq

Hey all.

_1. What's your grip style?_
I use my beloved Evoluent VerticalMouse 4 (wired), so I guess handshake grip is what I'd prefer? But, really, I have no problem using regular Mac mice (which is what they have at all the uni computers).

_2. What's your sensitivity?_
I prefer to use the 'MD' DPI setting on my VM4, which I think is around the 2000 mark (not completely sure).

_3. What's your maximum budget?_
$150

_4. Do you want additional buttons?_
*YES! Must have atleast two additional buttons, along with 2 regular buttons and a scroll wheel!* (although a 3 regular buttons + scroll wheel design is preferable...but I don't such a mouse exists) *MUST! MUST! MUST!*

_5. What games do you play?_
*NONE!* I am a CAD guy using Alias Automotive 2012, Rhino 5 x64, and SolidWorks 2012 x64.

_6. Do you mind about prediction?_
WTH is prediction?









_7. Other relevant information:_
*DRIVERLESS/ONBOARD MEMORY* (I dunno what the difference is, or which one I'm looking for) *IS A MUST*, as I need to program the additional buttons to function as 'Shift+Ctrl' and 'Shift+Alt' key combos and use it on any computer without having to install the driver.


----------



## Icarian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> The G400 has the exact same shape as the G5 but a little different scroll and button placement


The G400 seems to be almost exactly the same with a different sensor, while not a bad thing (the G5 is pretty comfy), I want to try something different as I've been using it for 4 years.


----------



## blackhydra866

..


----------



## Crabby654

So I'm currently looking for a new mouse because my 9 month old razer nags epic is having the double click issue on the left button, leaning towards a G500 but not sure yet.

1. What's your grip style?
My fingers rest on the mouse/buttons, not claw I think.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I feel like my dpi is usuall around 1000-2000 depending on the speed/acceleration settings.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No amount is too much!

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
MMOs and RTS's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what prediction is









7. Other relevant information:
- non glossy if possible
- wired is fine
- hesitant wih razer because my current mouse is messed up
- HUGE deal, I have small hands so a smaller mouse is preferable

I would get a G500 but not sure how the size is compared to a naga epic.


----------



## nailertn

1. What's your grip style?
paw / palm. definitely not claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
high

3. What's your maximum budget?
aim $40, tops $60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons is the very minimum but the more programmable buttons, the merrier (though not when they are in one cluster like the razer naga / corsair m90). non programmable buttons - apart from left / right /scroll wheel ofc - don't matter.

5. What games do you play?
rts, mmo, fps and other assorted three letter genres

6. Do you mind about prediction?
don't mind if it's not too noticeable

7. other information
Not interested in adjustable weight, on the fly DPI switch, on board memory or lights. No wireless. Prefer heavy, optical, simple looking mice. Want to stay away from razer and gigabyte.

8. top 1-2 attributes

I highly value build / material quality but the most important factor is buttons: Their number, layout, responsiveness, customizability and especially their durability.
In the last couple of years I had to discard multiple expensive mice due to microswitch wear. Since my trash can is equally happy with a $10 mouse thrown in it every once in a while I decided to go with something cheaper this time. Here are the candidates so far:

microsoft comfort 6000 - very light, only two extra buttons and not even sure they can be reprogrammed. love the simple steel series like look though.
logitech g400 - seems to be the safest bet even though I don't like its look, the wheel - prefer flat wide tactile ones like on razer mice -, nor the size of the thumb buttons
coolermaster spawn - concerned about grip, have quite long fingers. does anyone with a hybrid grip use this? also read several reports of severe unresolved software issues
roccat kova - g400 cheaper and does more, read multiple reports of poor build quality
coolermaster inferno / sharkoon fireglider / thermaltake black element - all seem fine but these brands are not as well known in this market so no idea if the quality is there

Since I'm ordering online and can't try or even look before buying, would love a recommendation. Thanks!


----------



## FiftyKcal

*1. What's your grip style?*

A mix between palm grip and fingertip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Both low (FPS) and high (RTS)

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$100 (can go a bit higher)

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

2 side buttons are kinda needed (don't need more but wouldn't mind more either).

*5. What games do you play?*

CS 1.6, Starcraft 2, WoW

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes.

*7. Other relevant information:*

Would like a quality mouse (would not like to buy a new one for a few years). Also my palm can get a bit sweaty (but nothing extraordinary) so if it could damage the mouse that would not be great.


----------



## vhapter

I want a pretty accurate mouse that allows me to play with 1200dpi and has a shape that fits my grip style.

*1. What's your grip style?* Not sure. Claw / Fingertip? I rest my hand on my mouse sometimes, but I use a lot of finger movement to move my mouse, and wrist motion to move it to the sides. My hands are "normal", not too big or small.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 1200 dpi @ 1080p. I've seen several mice that have very limiting dpi options, and I'd really like to stick with 1200 dpi.

*3. What's your maximum budget?* Don't care (much).

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* I don't mind them. But unless they are very reliable (unlike my Lachesis, which has terrible additional buttons), I probably won't use them either.

*5. What games do you play?* Mostly RTS - sc2 and wc3. I also enjoy playing osu! quite a bit, and sometimes FPS but I'm not a very skilled FPS player tbh.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* I want my mouse to be as accurate as possible. So yes, I guess?

I'd rather avoid mice with acceleration issues or anything along these lines unless I have no other good option. It's no good though if I can't play with 1200 dpi or if the shape is not suitable, which is why I'm having a hard time choosing a new mouse.

I've heard some nice things about the Deathadder, but it's probably too big for my grip. The g9x looks pretty nice and if it weren't for the positive acceleration issue that I heard about, I'd most likely not be here. The Xai also seems to have acceleration issues. G400 - only good for palming? The Abyssus and CM Storm Spawn don't allow me to play with 1200 dpi. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Mouse pad advice is welcome too! I had a Destructor but my mouse would glide too much on it, and I guess I'm more interested in accuracy. To make matters worse, my pad would get dirty so fast, if I rubbed it dirt would come off of it. It began to feel "slower" than when I first got it too fast though (even though I didn't like that much glide), not a durable pad in the slightest. So if there's anything out there that works well with the mouse I pick, favors accuracy over excessive gliding, and works better than a table for at the very least 6 months or something, I'd really like to know about it. When your table > your mouse pad, there's something really wrong with the pad imo and I don't want to make the same mistake twice!


----------



## NateST

1. What's your grip style?

One finger on mouse one and two, thumb on left side and two on the right.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Relatively low at least in my opinion

3. What's your maximum budget?

Pretty much anything

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At least two thumb buttons

5. What games do you play?

Many FPS, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 when it comes out.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction.

I really like my MX518 but I've had it for around 6 years and either want to replace it with another but I'm open to suggestions to something new.


----------



## Kieran

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I usually have my sensitivity set quite high in games so i can turn around faster.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
£50 ($78)
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I want additional buttons on my new mouse whether they are are used for backwards and forwards in a browser or as grenades in game.
*5. What games do you play?*
I mainly play FPS games such as the call of duty games and Battlefield 3 but i also play games such as Mass Effect
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Prediction could be useful when i'm editing photos but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if a mouse didn't have it

*7. Other relevant information:*
A decent scroll wheel for when i'm browsing the web and a long cable if the mouse is wired


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RickReaper*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys! Im pretty new to gaming mice and only recently moved from my xbox to PC so im looking to get an upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently use a logitech g400 and iv had it for about 4 years and its starting to fail me. i did some research and came up with the following list of possibilities and was wanting everyone's opinion and i am open to add to this list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Razer deathadder/Taipan/Imperator
> -Logitech G9x
> - R.A.T. 5 & 7
> -MIONIX NAOS 5000
> also your required info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm grip all the way
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Currently i hover around 1200 but i jump around depending on whats needed
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Im currently in new zealand so lets say no max >.<
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? i love the extra buttons on the g400 so its essential for a min of 7
> 5. What games do you play? CSS, Fallout, Borderlands, pretty much all FPS but also RTS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Maybe? dont know about it tbh...
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Right hand mouse
> Weight: The option to add/subtract would be nice
> I prefer a wire mouse to wireless mouse.
> Glossy finish: No, I want a rough side mouse to help me use the mouse for a long time without sliding. )
> Driverless: driver or not is not really a matter but the mouse must work well without out driver.
> onboard memory: Yes
> i also anchor my wrist
> i am looking to get a new mouse so dont say stick with the g400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i know its a good mouse but im sick of it.
> any help would be greatly appreciated


The Mionix is a very comfortable mouse to palm. I haven't gotten to use it for an extended period of time but my first impressions of it are very positive. Potentially a perfect fit for those with medium hands that palm their mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emissary of Pain*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all ...
> I was looking at replacing my current POS mouse the CM Z3Ro-G and have the following available ... which would be the best
> *:: EXTRA INFO ::*
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> ClawPaw ... I grip with the tips of my fingers, the mouse does not touch my palm and the back of the mouse sits against the heel of my hand ... or I claw completely
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Currently i game on 5600dpi and have gotten used to it ... ... I would prefer a higher DPI (most new mice are adjustable anyway) but without interpolation if that exists (mouse noob, sorry)
> *3. Other*
> 
> I would like the side buttons to be easily pressed without effecting my aiming as I use them a ton, light actuation of the scroll wheel and L+R buttons a bonus
> No or Low Acceleration
> Preferably without prediction but I know this is asking a lot
> *:: These are in my price range ::*
> Gigabyte M8000x (R516)
> Logitech G9x (R617)
> Corsair M60 (R500)
> Razer Deathadder Black Edition (R598)
> Cyborg R.A.T. 5 (R610)
> *If I really stretch the budget beyond what I am comfortable with*
> Cyborg R.A.T. 7 (R800)
> Razer Taipan (R800) (not a fan cause it is stuck with green as a color)
> Steelseries Sensei Pro (R900)
> All help would be appreciated
> Kind Regards
> PS: How good is the Gb Krypton


The G9x would work if you don't mind the left and right mouse buttons having light actuation.


----------



## Blutch

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, however not putting my point and middle finger fully resting on the mouse, just my fingertops.

2. What's your sensitivity?
1200 dpi on sensei.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 sidebuttons is enough.

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, Starcraft 2, alot of single player games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Im not certain what it is.

I'm currently deciding between the rat7/g9x/Deathadder. But if youve got other suggestions go right ahead.
Thanks in advance. Also im gonna be using the Artisan Hayate mousepad.


----------



## Crunkles

Been busy with work last few days. I will get a response to posts ASAP if you haven't gotten a response yet, or will add to suggestions that you were given already.

In the mean time, if you haven't looked through the last 4-5 pages of posts I would suggest looking there as well. Many suggestions previously posted may apply to what you're looking for and can allow you to find the mouse you want without waiting a couple days for a response.

Goodluck and talk soon


----------



## Winwin

I have some crappy $5 mouse found at a Garage sale years back. It works, but I feel I want something better now









1. What's your grip style?
One finger on mouse one and two, thumb on left side and two on the right. Claw-like- I don't rest my palm on it.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Moderate.

3. What's your maximum budget?
~$60, obviously lower the better.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Nah, don't care for.

5. What games do you play?
None. Maybe older classic games like Roller Coaster Tycoon or Simcity 4 once in a while. Or sometimes Fallout/Skyrim if I get really bored.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what this means.

7. Other relevant information:
Wireless, not too heavy. Laptop-mouse weight, if not only slightly heavier, would be ideal.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Winwin*
> 
> I have some crappy $5 mouse found at a Garage sale years back. It works, but I feel I want something better now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> One finger on mouse one and two, thumb on left side and two on the right. Claw-like- I don't rest my palm on it.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Moderate.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> ~$60, obviously lower the better.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Nah, don't care for.
> 5. What games do you play?
> None. Maybe older classic games like Roller Coaster Tycoon or Simcity 4 once in a while. Or sometimes Fallout/Skyrim if I get really bored.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not sure what this means.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Wireless, not too heavy. Laptop-mouse weight, if not only slightly heavier, would be ideal.


The Logitech Anywhere MX might be a good solution for you, as it wont be used for precision work and it tracks on almost every surface.


----------



## royalflush5

1. What's your grip style?

*Fingertip and palm, no claw*

2. What's your sensitivity?

*I'm not to sure, something moderate, if I can adjust it, the better*

3. What's your maximum budget?

*~70-80, the lower the better of course*

4. Do you want additional buttons?

*at least one so I can toggle the voice chat feature in games*

5. What games do you play?

*TF2, Skyrim, A lot of first person, them stuff like terraria and world of goo*

6. Do you mind about prediction?

*I've not a clue what it is*

7. Other relevant information:

*Wired would be nice, cord length is important too*

Hope you guys can help me, thanks!


----------



## disintegratorx

My Imperator is fab. Just make sure that you get a really flat materialed mouse pad if you get one because the sensors on it are really sensitive. Honestly, upgrading to this mouse has made my gaming experience much better. I recommend it fully.


----------



## zzuper

Quote:


> My Imperator is fab. Just make sure that you get a really flat materialed mouse pad if you get one because the sensors on it are really sensitive. Honestly, upgrading to this mouse has made my gaming experience much better. I recommend it fully.


What did you upgrade from?


----------



## disintegratorx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zzuper*
> 
> What did you upgrade from?


A Microsoft Explorer 4000 I think. Its an older mouse.. Just optical.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icarian*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse, I've been using a Logitech G5 for the last 4 years and I want to try something new.
> *What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip mostly. sometimes I switch to something in between fingertip and palm, but rarely.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Been using 800 DPI since I got the G5, but something a lil faster would help, so 800~1200 would be perfect,
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> No more than $80 if possible, unless it's something so good that justifies it.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Two side buttons is enough.
> *What games do you play?*
> Bit of everything FPS, MMOs, Sandboxes. etc.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Does a driverless G5 have it? if not, I don't want it, if yes, then I don't care.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I don't want it to be glossy. for obvious reasons.
> Black color is a plus.
> No bigger than a G5.


I actually still have a G5 laying around and that was a great mouse. If you liked the rubber feel of the G5 I would suggest the Mionix Naos or Zowie AM. The Mionix is of a similar size and shape. I'm assuming you have bigger hands if you are using a fingertip grip on a G5. If I'm wrong, then the Zowie AM may fit you a little better.

Both mice have 2 side buttons and are under you price req. The Zowie is black and the Mionix I got was grey, but you can get a black one.

The G400 is also an option as mentioned by NuFon, but it is glossy which you don't want.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *w00tdafuq*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all.
> _1. What's your grip style?_
> I use my beloved Evoluent VerticalMouse 4 (wired), so I guess handshake grip is what I'd prefer? But, really, I have no problem using regular Mac mice (which is what they have at all the uni computers).
> _2. What's your sensitivity?_
> I prefer to use the 'MD' DPI setting on my VM4, which I think is around the 2000 mark (not completely sure).
> _3. What's your maximum budget?_
> $150
> _4. Do you want additional buttons?_
> *YES! Must have atleast two additional buttons, along with 2 regular buttons and a scroll wheel!* (although a 3 regular buttons + scroll wheel design is preferable...but I don't such a mouse exists) *MUST! MUST! MUST!*
> _5. What games do you play?_
> *NONE!* I am a CAD guy using Alias Automotive 2012, Rhino 5 x64, and SolidWorks 2012 x64.
> _6. Do you mind about prediction?_
> WTH is prediction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _7. Other relevant information:_
> *DRIVERLESS/ONBOARD MEMORY* (I dunno what the difference is, or which one I'm looking for) *IS A MUST*, as I need to program the additional buttons to function as 'Shift+Ctrl' and 'Shift+Alt' key combos and use it on any computer without having to install the driver.


If you are comfortable with any mouse, there are plenty of suggestions. But for most mice these days, in order to program the buttons to perform functions for you you'll have to install their software. Examples of this are the G9x, G500, Deathadder, Cyborg MMO or RAT 7, Mionix Naos, etc. If you're willing to deal with that take your pick from any of those mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhydra866*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Middle, not crazy high but not low either
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> Starcraft 2, TF2, Counter-Strike
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, zero please
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Currently using a DeathAdder on a QCK mat. I want to try something lighter and smaller that I can move around quicker. Must be wired. 1000Hz polling is necessary too.
> I've been looking into a Zowie AM but i'm open to other suggestions.


Zowie AM or Naga Hex would work for ya. So take your pick from rubber or glossy








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crabby654*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm currently looking for a new mouse because my 9 month old razer nags epic is having the double click issue on the left button, leaning towards a G500 but not sure yet.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> My fingers rest on the mouse/buttons, not claw I think.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I feel like my dpi is usuall around 1000-2000 depending on the speed/acceleration settings.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No amount is too much!
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMOs and RTS's
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not sure what prediction is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> - non glossy if possible
> - wired is fine
> - hesitant wih razer because my current mouse is messed up
> - HUGE deal, I have small hands so a smaller mouse is preferable
> I would get a G500 but not sure how the size is compared to a naga epic.


It sounds like you have hands similar to mine and that you seem to palm the Naga. The G500 is much larger in length than the Naga, so I wouldn't recommend that. If you rest your entire hand on the mouse it would be a palm grip, and the Mionix Naos would suit you quite nicely, or you can try the Zowie AM. If these don't suit you, you can try the Logitech G9x or Naga Hex.

Will get to more suggestions soon. Write responses as time allows


----------



## royalflush5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disintegratorx*
> 
> My Imperator is fab. Just make sure that you get a really flat materialed mouse pad if you get one because the sensors on it are really sensitive. Honestly, upgrading to this mouse has made my gaming experience much better. I recommend it fully.


I'll give it a look, thanks








Any other suggestions?


----------



## Bitech

_3. What's your maximum budget?_
$30
_:
7. Other relevant information_
Needs to be wired, USB, must be resistant to the common mouse "double-click in a single-slick" problem.

I'm pretty much done buying $8 computer mice. All suffered from single-double click. I just need a decent mouse under $30 that will last me at least a few years. Does not need to be a gaming mouse.


----------



## royalflush5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitech*
> 
> _3. What's your maximum budget?_
> $30
> _:
> 7. Other relevant information_
> Needs to be wired, USB, must be resistant to the common mouse "double-click in a single-slick" problem.
> I'm pretty much done buying $8 computer mice. All suffered from single-double click. I just need a decent mouse under $30 that will last me at least a few years. Does not need to be a gaming mouse.


Check out this guy, Logitech always makes good stuff:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-910-001204-Corded-Mouse-M500/dp/B002B3YCQM


----------



## jjsoviet

Since my old Logitech G9 is looking rather dated and the scroll wheel's rubber grip is damaged, I have decided to scout out my options if ever I get the money for a replacement.

*1. What's your grip style?*

I am between the palm and claw style, with the latter being used whenever games get hectic.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Coming from the G9, I am comfortable with 1600-2000 DPI.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Around $50 to $60, but I can stretch to as much as $80 if you guys can make a solid case for a particular mouse.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Just thumb buttons are enough for me.

*5. What games do you play?*

A little bit of everything, but mainly FPS and RTS like Battlefield 3, Team Fortress 2 and Command and Conquer. MOBA-style games like DOTA 2 are also my thing.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't mind.

*7. Other relevant information:*

Preferably something that has configurable LED colors or at least comes with red to match my current setup color scheme.
My hands are generally big, so something wide or large will be nice. I don't mind if it's small though as long as the grip is comfortable.

Thanks guys.


----------



## Nills

*1. What's your grip style?*
I am between fingertip and claw style. I push the mouse with my thumb, ring, and pinkie fingers depends on the direction which one I use. The back of my palm does rest on the mouse pad. Right handed

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Medium, I think. 4-5 inches to go 360º because I like to move 1" to turn 90º and 2" to turn 180º. I never really do 360s

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
budget < $100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
a thumb button and the DPI buttons behind the wheel is cool.

*5. What games do you play?*
I love all Bethesda Games, Paradox Games, Dragon Age 1, CoD, BF3, TF2, LFD2, ME3, ME2, ME1, Two Worlds, Torchlight, Asheron's Call, Space Chem, Spiderweb Games, and point and click adventures.

I don't do much RTS outside of 4x (I like Sins of a Sola Empire)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I want to try this out. I think I might need it.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I will soon be gaming on a Crossover 27Q. 2560 x 1440 monitor.
I would like a weighty mouse, but smoooth scrolling. (probably a mouse pad thing)
I'm also heavy handed, I have big hands. I'm the guy who always goes with shotgun or light machine gun, I'm just not a good sniper. So, in ME3 I always played a vanguard and got really good at it. In GoW i would 2 piece people all day long and love it. This is how i have played over the years and would like a mouse that helps me 2 piece.

Thanks


----------



## RickReaper

So i just bought the deathadder and a goliathus mouspad...oh my gosh i dont think my hand has every felt so good holding a mouse







if your a palmer like me i highly recommend the deathadder


----------



## disintegratorx

-.-


----------



## Hente

1. What's your grip style?
I won't really have a set style, but if I had to choose it'd be palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
I am not sure if i'm answering this question correctly, but my preferred DPI is 1500 - 2000

3. What's your maximum budget?
I'd really prefer to keep it under $20, the cheaper the better. I don't need a fancy sensor or completely perfect tracking since my "mousepad" is going to be my bed's blanket anyway, lol.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
5 button is a must, I already have a 3 button wireless that I am looking to replace for this reason specifically.

5. What games do you play?
I already have a Xornet for gaming.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No.

7. Other relevant information:
Must be wireless. Going to be using it around 15 feet away from the computer for watching videos on my bed. Like I said above, I don't need anything fancy as long as it works, I know it might be impossible but I'd really like to find something under $10.


----------



## penguinz

1. What's your grip style?
I mostly use the fingertip, but that's probably because of my current mouse (some small laptop mouse). I think I'd get used to a different grip, if I get a different mouse.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I'm not really sure, it depends on what I'm doing. I'd like to be able to change it.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$80, preferably a bit less, but I'd be willing to save up a bit more if it's necessary.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
On the fly DPI switching would be nice but not really necessary. I don't really play MMOs, so I'm fine with just the regular buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Mostly FPS, some action/adventure, and some RPGs.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really sure, if it's not too noticeable, I think I can live with it.

7. Other relevant information:
I was previously looking at the G9X and the M60, I'm not sure which one of them is better and I would like some other suggestions. Also, can you suggest me a mouse pad? I really have no preference, as long as it works with the mouse, and is not too big. Thanks.


----------



## Scorpion667

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low sens, 450 dpi, 0.75 ingame (16-17"/360)

3. What's your maximum budget?
N/A

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Nop

5. What games do you play?
FPS (CS:GO)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't like prediction at all.

7. Other relevant information:
The mouse must NOT have this shape: /_\ as that makes it hard to pick up for me.
Mice I've tried and would not buy again:
-G9 (low perfect control speed)
-MX518 (Prediction, not a good shape for fingertip)
-DA 3.5 (GOOD MOUSE but 3/4 that I have used scratch my mouse pad and I am forced to wait two weeks for hyperglides from taiwan and double layer them.....)
-Abyssus (Meh decent but center of gravity is too forward for my liking)
-G400 (hate the shape)


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low sens, 450 dpi, 0.75 ingame (16-17"/360)
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> N/A
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Nop
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS (CS:GO)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't like prediction at all.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> The mouse must NOT have this shape: /_\ as that makes it hard to pick up for me.
> Mice I've tried and would not buy again:
> -G9 (low perfect control speed)
> -MX518 (Prediction, not a good shape for fingertip)
> -DA 3.5 (GOOD MOUSE but 3/4 that I have used scratch my mouse pad and I am forced to wait two weeks for hyperglides from taiwan and double layer them.....)
> -Abyssus (Meh decent but center of gravity is too forward for my liking)
> -G400 (hate the shape)


You could look in to the Zowie AM. It's small, light, has flat sides and has a very good sensor.


----------



## Art Vanelay

I've been using a Deathadder for a while, and the grip shape is uncomfortable. I'm considering the G400, what would you people recommend?

1. What's your grip style?
Claw, but finger grip also works

2. What's your sensitivity?
usually low

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes

5. What games do you play?
Counter Strike
ArmA 2
Red Orchestra 2
Gmod

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yes

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Adjustable LOD is good. I'd prefer a good scroll wheel. Rubberised is better than plastic.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've been using a Deathadder for a while, and the grip shape is uncomfortable. I'm considering the G400, what would you people recommend?
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw, but finger grip also works
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> usually low
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> Counter Strike
> ArmA 2
> Red Orchestra 2
> Gmod
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Adjustable LOD is good. I'd prefer a good scroll wheel. Rubberised is better than plastic.


The G400 has a plastic surface and a bad/ok scrollwheel.
I think you might be better of getting the Roccat Savu.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> The G400 has a plastic surface and a bad/ok scrollwheel.
> I think you might be better of getting the Roccat Savu.


Is that sensor up to par with the DA sensor?

It's a Avago ADNS-3090 apparently.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> *The G400 has a plastic surface* and a bad/ok scrollwheel.
> I think you might be better of getting the Roccat Savu.


Wait, what?

Name me a mouse that doesnt have a plastic surface.

As for the scrollwheel, I agree that it kind of suck. Not in a way that it will break, it's just not really nice to use.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've been using a Deathadder for a while, and the grip shape is uncomfortable. I'm considering the G400, what would you people recommend?
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw, but finger grip also works
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> usually low
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> Counter Strike
> ArmA 2
> Red Orchestra 2
> Gmod
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Adjustable LOD is good. I'd prefer a good scroll wheel. Rubberised is better than plastic.


You should consider the Zowie AM. It's an ambidextrous mice, which make it really nice to claw. The DPI steps are a bit weird but if you like them, it has good chances of becoming your perfect mouse.

http://www.zowiegear.com/component/content/article/203-new-ambidextrous-mouse


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> You should consider the Zowie AM. It's an ambidextrous mice, which make it really nice to claw. The DPI steps are a bit weird but if you like them, it has good chances of becoming your perfect mouse.
> http://www.zowiegear.com/component/content/article/203-new-ambidextrous-mouse


That mouse looks pretty similar in shape to my deathadder, and I've found the deathadder difficult to claw because the back is at a really low angle.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> That mouse looks pretty similar in shape to my deathadder, and I've found the deathadder difficult to claw because the back is at a really low angle.


As far as i know that mouse is not similar to deathadder... If you'd say it's similar to steelseries xai, kana or even sensei, i would totally agree with you... well i can't imagine if you see zowie ec1 evo...


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> That mouse looks pretty similar in shape to my deathadder, and I've found the deathadder difficult to claw because the back is at a really low angle.


As the other poster said, the shape is not similar to the DA shape because it is ambidextrous.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> As the other poster said, the shape is not similar to the DA shape because it is ambidextrous.


I meant more that the curve on the top was similar, and also what I hated about the DA.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> Wait, what?
> Name me a mouse that doesnt have a plastic surface.


Errm, I meant the plastic surface as in a non coated surface. As glossy or rubberized and not just a rough plastic finish, sorry if you misunderstood


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> Errm, I meant the plastic surface as in a non coated surface. As glossy or rubberized and not just a rough plastic finish, sorry if you misunderstood


Ah, i see!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> Errm, I meant the plastic surface as in a non coated surface. As glossy or rubberized and not just a rough plastic finish, sorry if you misunderstood


I don't really care about plastic surfaces; unless they're glossy; glossy plastic is awful.


----------



## jjsoviet

Has anyone recommended a mouse for me? My birthday is coming up and I'd like to have some feedback.

Here it is again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/the-mouse-suggestion-thread/360#post_17971507

I am considering a Roccat Kova and a Mionix Naos 3200. Which would be better for me?


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> Has anyone recommended a mouse for me? My birthday is coming up and I'd like to have some feedback.
> Here it is again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/the-mouse-suggestion-thread/360#post_17971507
> I am considering a Roccat Kova and a Mionix Naos 3200. Which would be better for me?


The Roccat Savu fits the bill, I guess


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> The Roccat Savu fits the bill, I guess


That mouse can't do 1600 DPI without jitter.

I'd personally recommend a deathadder; the grip is pretty strange, though.


----------



## TheRainMan

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
Sky's the limit

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only for browser back and forward

5. What games do you play?
CSGO
Dota 2
League of Legends

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No preference

7. Other relevant information:
Hard click preferred (as opposed to a deathadder's "soft click"
Rubber finish is preferred


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> Has anyone recommended a mouse for me? My birthday is coming up and I'd like to have some feedback.
> Here it is again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/the-mouse-suggestion-thread/360#post_17971507
> I am considering a Roccat Kova and a Mionix Naos 3200. Which would be better for me?


Go for the naos if you dont mind a high LOD. it's a very comfy mouse.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> Go for the naos *if you dont mind a high LOD.* it's a very comfy mouse.


Highly depends on surface ;p


----------



## superj1977

Naos 3200 IS comfy but...high LOD is a reall pain, can be solved though in seconds by partailly blocking LED with tape.

If you do buy a Naos *be very very careful on where and who you buy it from* , as i recently found out,,,Mionix are *extremely* fussy when it comes to RMA, i would highly recommend you first contacting them to find out their authorised retailers list.


----------



## Skylit

Or you can simply find a compatible surface with a lighter colored print. The actual distance will vary from pad to pad. *Low* to high.


----------



## Catolysis

1. What's your grip style?
Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
High

3. What's your maximum budget?
USD 70-80

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just two buttons on the left side will do

5. What games do you play?
Team fortress 2, Killing floor and some MMO's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
If it have the ability to turn off

7. Other relevant information:
Nothing i can think of.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superj1977*
> 
> Naos 3200 IS comfy but...high LOD is a reall pain, can be solved though in seconds by partailly blocking LED with tape.
> If you do buy a Naos *be very very careful on where and who you buy it from* , as i recently found out,,,Mionix are *extremely* fussy when it comes to RMA, i would highly recommend you first contacting them to find out their authorised retailers list.


Thanks for the warning. Mionix does list Fry's as an authorized reseller, so I would go with that.


----------



## penguinz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I mostly use the fingertip, but that's probably because of my current mouse (some small laptop mouse). I think I'd get used to a different grip, if I get a different mouse.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I'm not really sure, it depends on what I'm doing. I'd like to be able to change it.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $80, preferably a bit less, but I'd be willing to save up a bit more if it's necessary.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> On the fly DPI switching would be nice but not really necessary. I don't really play MMOs, so I'm fine with just the regular buttons.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly FPS, some action/adventure, and some RPGs.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really sure, if it's not too noticeable, I think I can live with it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I was previously looking at the G9X and the M60, I'm not sure which one of them is better and I would like some other suggestions. Also, can you suggest me a mouse pad? I really have no preference, as long as it works with the mouse, and is not too big. Thanks.


Pretty sure double posting is bad, but I would like to have a new mouse before the end of next week. Thanks and sorry for the double post.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> Pretty sure double posting is bad, but I would like to have a new mouse before the end of next week. Thanks and sorry for the double post.


For FPS games in general I would take a look at mice with the Avago 3090 sensor or other varitations of it, just because a lot of mice has this sensor and its a pretty good sensor aswell, but has sort off high LOD


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> Pretty sure double posting is bad, but I would like to have a new mouse before the end of next week. Thanks and sorry for the double post.


Both of those mice have had some reported sensor acceleration problems. I would look at the G400, Deathadder, or Zowie EC1 evo.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catolysis*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> High
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> USD 70-80
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just two buttons on the left side will do
> 5. What games do you play?
> Team fortress 2, Killing floor and some MMO's
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> If it have the ability to turn off
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Nothing i can think of.


Optical for up to 3500-4000DPI (good up to around 1600DPI) for the claw grip: Spawn, Savu

If you need higher DPI then a laser mouse is for you. Imperator (with some z-axis issue), M60/M90, G9x, etc could do, but other than Imperator there are a tiny bit of acceleration (~5%) that cannot be turned off.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> Pretty sure double posting is bad, but I would like to have a new mouse before the end of next week. Thanks and sorry for the double post.


Many mice fit your requirements. G9x and M60 certainly fit, but they are a bit too much for your requirements. Moreover, they have some tiny bit of acceleration that you cannot turn off (IMO 5% is quite unnoticable though). Cheaper alternatives like G400 or Abyssus could do, and they use sensors that are free from acceleration and are stable enough up to 1600DPI, though some say G400 is only good up to 800DPI.... Spawn, Deathadder, Savu are some other mice that you may look into with different shapes and button layouts.

For mousepad, you could go with Razer Goliathus speed or QcK mini as a starter.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Catolysis*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> High
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> USD 70-80
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just two buttons on the left side will do
> 5. What games do you play?
> Team fortress 2, Killing floor and some MMO's
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> If it have the ability to turn off
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Nothing i can think of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Optical for up to 3500-4000DPI (good up to around 1600DPI) for the claw grip: Spawn, Savu
> 
> If you need higher DPI then a laser mouse is for you. Imperator (with some z-axis issue), M60/M90, G9x, etc could do, but other than Imperator there are a tiny bit of acceleration (~5%) that cannot be turned off.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> Pretty sure double posting is bad, but I would like to have a new mouse before the end of next week. Thanks and sorry for the double post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many mice fit your requirements. G9x and M60 certainly fit, but they are a bit too much for your requirements. Moreover, they have some tiny bit of acceleration that you cannot turn off (IMO 5% is quite unnoticable though). Cheaper alternatives like G400 or Abyssus could do, and they use sensors that are free from acceleration and are stable enough up to 1600DPI, though some say G400 is only good up to 800DPI.... Spawn, Deathadder, Savu are some other mice that you may look into with different shapes and button layouts.
> 
> For mousepad, you could go with Razer Goliathus speed or QcK mini as a starter.
Click to expand...

The Savu cannot do 1600 DPI without jitter.

Does the G400 have jitter at 1600 DPI? I thought it had a sensor up to par with the DA.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> *The Savu cannot do 1600 DPI without jitter.*
> Does the G400 have jitter at 1600 DPI? I thought it had a sensor up to par with the DA.
> Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk


Mine can.

Each mouse you mentioned uses the same basic sensor architecture. Differing by LED and in the G400's case, magnification lens as well.

G400's 1800 CPI step is basically utilizing 3600 CPI with half its counts dropped. It's fidelity is a bit worse than the Savu or DA compared at the same polling on the same surface.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Highly depends on surface ;p


Glad to hear that,

do you know what kind of LOD I should expect on a 9HD? This mouse really picked my interest. I dont mind a LOD that is around 2-3 CD.
Does the mouse have any major flaws?


----------



## Skylit

Cant give you a precise answer as I don't own one.

I can't even use another comparable mouse as a template as firmware and individual LED quality can fluctuate.. I don't really want to get into that though =x


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Mine can.
> Each mouse you mentioned uses the same basic sensor architecture. Differing by LED and in the G400's case, both lens and LED.
> G400's 1800 CPI step is basically utilizing 3600 CPI with half its counts dropped. It's fidelity is a bit worse than the Savu or DA compared at the same polling on the same surface.


This is based on a review of it that I saw.


----------



## Skylit

That's nice, but there's no mention of what surface he used. Max IPS tracking speed and cursor performance will differ from pad to pad.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> That's nice, but there's no mention of what surface he used. Max IPS tracking speed and cursor performance will differ from pad to pad.


What pad are you using it on?

Also, draw a spiral in paint with it on 1600DPI.


----------



## Skylit

Goliathus Speed.


http://imgur.com/ozyVC


I will admit that hardware tolerances can differ.


----------



## solarin006

1. What's your grip style?
Palm/Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
800-1200

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100 US

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Left side button(s), dpi switch

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO, BF3, TF2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer without

7. Other relevant information:
Looking for something that can run driverless. Preferably right hand specific, would also like a high/low dpi switch, and lastly an easy to use middle mouse button. Tried a G9x, found it was too short (palm hanging off back) and too hard to hit middle mouse without accidentally scrolling. Currently using a Deathadder Black, love the ergos, but missing driverless operation and a simple dpi switch (dislike on-the-fly adjustment because it takes to long accurately scroll/select).


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solarin006*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm/Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800-1200
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100 US
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Left side button(s), dpi switch
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:GO, BF3, TF2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer without
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Looking for something that can run driverless. Preferably right hand specific, would also like a high/low dpi switch, and lastly an easy to use middle mouse button. Tried a G9x, found it was too short (palm hanging off back) and too hard to hit middle mouse without accidentally scrolling. Currently using a Deathadder Black, love the ergos, but missing driverless operation and a simple dpi switch (dislike on-the-fly adjustment because it takes to long accurately scroll/select).


Logitech G400, Roccat Savu or Zowie AM maybe?


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> Logitech G400, Roccat Savu or Zowie AM maybe?


Zowie AM do not have the DPI steps that the poster want.

G400 loose some tracking quality after 800 DPI.

Not sure about the roccat SAVU.

Out of the 3 I would choose the g400 again.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> Zowie AM do not have the DPI steps that the poster want.
> G400 loose some tracking quality after 800 DPI.
> Not sure about the roccat SAVU.
> Out of the 3 I would choose the g400 again.


I'd probably suggest a Deathadder for him; how would it compare to those?


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I'd probably suggest a Deathadder for him; how would it compare to those?


He is already using a deathadder.

It doesnt really compare to the AM. The AM have lower lift off and is best used at 450/1150 cpi afaik. The AM is also prefered by claw/findertip gripper because of its ambidextrous shape, afaik.

I feel that my deathadder is the exact opposite in terms of ergonomics and tracking to my g400. While you can palm both, the ergonomics are very different, mostly because the g400 support your pinkie finger while the deathadder dont. The deathadder also track best at 1800 cpi, while the G400 is at 400-800 cpi. Both work driverless for me, but you cant change de CPI on the deathadder. You will need to change your in game sensivity.

Once again, I cant talk for the savu.


----------



## penguinz

So I'm down to 4 mice I'm considering. The G9X, M60, Deathadder (all of them are really close to $50), and the CM spawn ( which is $10 less). I'm leaning more towards the first 3 because I don't really like the way the last one looks (any better looking mice with the same sensor?). Is the acceleration on the G9X and the M60 really noticeable, and does the Deathadder have it too? At around the same price point I'm having a really hard time choosing between them. Shoul I just choose 1 randomly, or is there something I missed? Thanks.


----------



## BLKKROW

1. I guide with my fingers and push with my palm if that makes sense?

2. I love low sensitivity, every first person shooter I play I use the lowest sensitivity. On my old G5 i always used 800DPI

3. I would prefer to pay $30 but can spend up to $50-60

4. No additional buttons.

5. Counterstrike

6. I have never used a mice with prediction, I would presume that I would not want it.

7. Corded please! No razer mice!

help me, the last gaming mice I used was the g5 and that was the only option at the time.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> *He is already using a deathadder.*
> It doesnt really compare to the AM. The AM have lower lift off and is best used at 450/1150 cpi afaik. The AM is also prefered by claw/findertip gripper because of its ambidextrous shape, afaik.
> I feel that my deathadder is the exact opposite in terms of ergonomics and tracking to my g400. While you can palm both, the ergonomics are very different, mostly because the g400 support your pinkie finger while the deathadder dont. The deathadder also track best at 1800 cpi, while the G400 is at 400-800 cpi. Both work driverless for me, but you cant change de CPI on the deathadder. You will need to change your in game sensivity.
> Once again, I cant talk for the savu.


I misread that.

Is there any actual precision difference between 800 and 1600 DPI?
Quote:


> 1. I guide with my fingers and push with my palm if that makes sense?
> 
> 2. I love low sensitivity, every first person shooter I play I use the lowest sensitivity. On my old G5 i always used 800DPI
> 
> 3. I would prefer to pay $30 but can spend up to $50-60
> 
> 4. No additional buttons.
> 
> 5. Counterstrike
> 
> 6. I have never used a mice with prediction, I would presume that I would not want it.
> 
> 7. Corded please! No razer mice!
> 
> help me, the last gaming mice I used was the g5 and that was the only option at the time.


The Logitech G400 is good on 800DPI, and only $40 if you get a deal.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penguinz*
> 
> So I'm down to 4 mice I'm considering. The G9X, M60, Deathadder (all of them are really close to $50), and the CM spawn ( which is $10 less). I'm leaning more towards the first 3 because I don't really like the way the last one looks (any better looking mice with the same sensor?). Is the acceleration on the G9X and the M60 really noticeable, and does the Deathadder have it too? At around the same price point I'm having a really hard time choosing between them. Shoul I just choose 1 randomly, or is there something I missed? Thanks.


The deathadder dont have acceleration.

The acceleration in the G9X and the M60 is only noticeable if you play with a low sensivity.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I misread that.
> Is there any actual precision difference between 800 and 1600 DPI?
> The Logitech G400 is good on 800DPI, and only $40 if you get a deal.


Well the perfect control speed is significantly lower using 1600 DPI, meaning that if you move your mouse really fast it will not respond proprely.
At 3600 CPI you will experience *minor* jitter.

Dont get me wrong, the g400 is doing good at 1600 and 3600 CPI, but it really shine at 400-800.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> He is already using a deathadder.
> It doesnt really compare to the AM. The AM have lower lift off and is best used at 450/1150 cpi afaik. The AM is also prefered by claw/findertip gripper because of its ambidextrous shape, afaik.
> I feel that my deathadder is the exact opposite in terms of ergonomics and tracking to my g400. While you can palm both, the ergonomics are very different, mostly because the g400 support your pinkie finger while the deathadder dont. The deathadder also track best at 1800 cpi, while the G400 is at 400-800 cpi. Both work driverless for me, but you cant change de CPI on the deathadder. You will need to change your in game sensivity.
> Once again, I cant talk for the savu.


I can't recommend Zowie because I personally feel that some of the hardware used isn't up to par. I won't go into specific details.

Deathadder tracks perfectly fine @ 900 and 450. What do you mean by not being able to change DPI? It's possible to toggle through multiple steps if you're willing to give up one side button.

On the Savu, you can use easy shift macros to select DPI up and down. 400-800-1600-4000.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> Well the perfect control speed is significantly lower using 1600 DPI, meaning that if you move your mouse really fast it will not respond proprely.
> At 3600 CPI you will experience *minor* jitter.
> Dont get me wrong, the g400 is doing good at 1600 and 3600 CPI, but it really shine at 400-800.


Thanks for the help; I will probably look into a G400. The reason I am swapping out the Deathadder is because of the ergonomics, and that looks to be the most comfortable.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solarin006*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm/Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800-1200
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100 US
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Left side button(s), dpi switch
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:GO, BF3, TF2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer without
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Looking for something that can run driverless. Preferably right hand specific, would also like a high/low dpi switch, and lastly an easy to use middle mouse button. Tried a G9x, found it was too short (palm hanging off back) and too hard to hit middle mouse without accidentally scrolling. Currently using a Deathadder Black, love the ergos, but missing driverless operation and a simple dpi switch (dislike on-the-fly adjustment because it takes to long accurately scroll/select).


Another reason for Savu with driverless operation - It saves all 5 profiles with onboard memory. Once you set all the profiles you need in the driver, you can just uninstall it (or use it on another computer) and go driverless.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I can't recommend Zowie because I personally feel that some of the hardware used isn't up to par. I won't go into specific details.
> Deathadder tracks perfectly fine @ 900 and 450. What do you mean by not being able to change DPI? It's possible to toggle through multiple steps if you're willing to give up one side button.
> On the Savu, you can use easy shift macros to select DPI up and down. 400-800-1600-4000.


Well about changing the DPI, I meant that the Deathadder do not feature a convenient button that allow you to switch it without giving up another button. There is the little button on the bottom but it's a PITA to use.

Somehow I was quite sure that the Deathadder was not optimal at 900 and 450, my bad on this one.


----------



## dstrk

1. What's your grip style?
Palm but looking to ambidex shape

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi 500hz

3. What's your maximum budget?
$110

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes

5. What games do you play?
CS: Online, A.V.A, CoD, CS:GO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yes. preferred with no prediction

7. Other relevant information:
ambidextrous shape, prefer glossy or hard finish since my palm sweaty and dont like mat finish cuz the sweat is sticking on it

thanks u


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dstrk*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm but looking to ambidex shape
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400 dpi 500hz
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $110
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS: Online, A.V.A, CoD, CS:GO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes. preferred with no prediction
> 7. Other relevant information:
> ambidextrous shape, prefer glossy or hard finish since my palm sweaty and dont like mat finish cuz the sweat is sticking on it
> thanks u


Zowie AM, it got some stiff Huano switches and a kind of lower max tracking speed than other 3090 sensor due to its custom lens, but the LOD is almost non existent.
The Steelseries Kana is somewhat good at its lower DPI steps I've heard.


----------



## Skylit

Z lift off can change based on surface material/color, but the Zowie is generally lower than the average 20 pin optical on dark surfaces. Barely tracks on anything light.


----------



## Fortunex

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip/claw

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Medium, don't have a ruler to measure in/360. I use the middle DPI setting on my G5 which I think is 800, and default win sens and very little sens changing in games usually.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
As little as possible, but I can go up to ~$90

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
One or two on the left side of the mouse would be nice, not required.

*5. What games do you play?*
Everything.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Prediction doesn't bother me much, acceleration does.

*7. Other relevant information:*
I use a Steelseries QCK mouse pad (cloth), am looking for something slightly smaller than my G5, and like having something for my pinkie/ring finger to grab onto on the right side of the mouse (so something like a DA with a smooth right side doesn't work). Also because of my finger position, I tend to accidentally hit buttons that are on the right side of the mouse, so unfortunately the Sensei is off the list.

Right now I'm looking at the Steelseries Kinzu/Kana or maybe the CM Spawn/Xornet, but I'm not sure how they compare as far as acceleration and tracking on cloth pads.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip/claw
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Medium, don't have a ruler to measure in/360. I use the middle DPI setting on my G5 which I think is 800, and default win sens and very little sens changing in games usually.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> As little as possible, but I can go up to ~$90
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> One or two on the left side of the mouse would be nice, not required.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Everything.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Prediction doesn't bother me much, acceleration does.
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I use a Steelseries QCK mouse pad (cloth), am looking for something slightly smaller than my G5, and like having something for my pinkie/ring finger to grab onto on the right side of the mouse (so something like a DA with a smooth right side doesn't work). Also because of my finger position, I tend to accidentally hit buttons that are on the right side of the mouse, so unfortunately the Sensei is off the list.
> Right now I'm looking at the Steelseries Kinzu/Kana or maybe the CM Spawn/Xornet, but I'm not sure how they compare as far as acceleration and tracking on cloth pads.


The Logitech G400 is good for claw grip, and the Roccat Savu is good for figertip. Both are great mice.


----------



## steezebe

My sister is left handed, and she wants a *wireless* mouse for left handed people. Is there one that exists? I've found a lot of ambidextrous ones, but are there any specific to left handed people? At this point we can't afford to be picky because I haven't found any at all...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steezebe*
> 
> My sister is left handed, and she wants a *wireless* mouse for left handed people. Is there one that exists? I've found a lot of ambidextrous ones, but are there any specific to left handed people? At this point we can't afford to be picky because I haven't found any at all...


Just get a Zowie AM and forget about wireless.


----------



## AscendSix

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI for FPS/ 1200 for DOTA 2, Starcraft 2.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Open.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, but it's not a factor.

5. What games do you play?
CS, Battlefield, Quake, UT, COD. Dota 2, Starcraft II, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I do not want prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Tried the G400, wasn't for me, I couldn't Claw nor Fingertip the mouse after a some months.

Basically looking for a true Claw/Fingertip mouse with perfect tracking.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AscendSix*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw/Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400 DPI for FPS/ 1200 for DOTA 2, Starcraft 2.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Open.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, but it's not a factor.
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS, Battlefield, Quake, UT, COD. Dota 2, Starcraft II, etc.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I do not want prediction.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Tried the G400, wasn't for me, I couldn't Claw nor Fingertip the mouse after a some months.
> Basically looking for a true Claw/Fingertip mouse with perfect tracking.


How about the Roccat Savu?


----------



## AscendSix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How about the Roccat Savu?


Does that track well?






This guy says it feels weird Claw gripping it. Is that true? Would it perform well with my Puretrak Talent?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AscendSix*
> 
> Does that track well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy says it feels weird Claw gripping it. Is that true? Would it perform well with my Puretrak Talent?


It has a an ADSN 3090, so it should be on par with the G400 and the deathadder. Someone a couple pages back said that his Savu could track well up to 1600 DPI.


----------



## AscendSix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It has a an ADSN 3090, so it should be on par with the G400 and the deathadder. Someone a couple pages back said that his Savu could track well up to 1600 DPI.


That's great, looking at it now, so this mouse can be Clawed and be used Fingertip?


----------



## TheRainMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheRainMan*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Sky's the limit
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Only for browser back and forward
> 5. What games do you play?
> CSGO
> Dota 2
> League of Legends
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No preference
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Hard click preferred (as opposed to a deathadder's "soft click"
> Rubber finish is preferred


Bumping this up


----------



## ZeProfessor

1. What's your grip style?
Palm
2. What's your sensitivity?
Highis prefeered
3. What's your maximum budget?
$80
4. Do you want additional buttons?
would be nice
5. What games do you play?
Firstperson games for the most part also cad work
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Leds so i can see it in the dark,moderate wieght and a decent size (mamba sized)


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeProfessor*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Highis prefeered
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $80
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> would be nice
> 5. What games do you play?
> Firstperson games for the most part also cad work
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Leds so i can see it in the dark,moderate wieght and a decent size (mamba sized)


If you like the Mamba's size, then look for DeathAdder... under $80, 3500/1800DPI, no prediction... Zowie EC1/EC2 Evo have similar shape as well.
Sensei Raw if its shape suits you. Random acceleration (not more than 5%) though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheRainMan*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Sky's the limit
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Only for browser back and forward
> 5. What games do you play?
> CSGO
> Dota 2
> League of Legends
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No preference
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Hard click preferred (as opposed to a deathadder's "soft click"
> Rubber finish is preferred


Are you the real TheRainMan?








Roccat Savu looks to fit your description with a rubber top finish. Side is sandpaper-feel plastic though.
Sensei Raw (Rubber) is obviously rubber finish and fit your descriptions as well, but the sensor it uses has a tiny bit of random acceleration (nothing more than 5%)


----------



## Jimura

*1. What's your grip style?*
palm / fingertip

hand dimention:
from middle finger to end of palm 18cm
horizontal 10cm ( while in this position http://media.nowpublic.net/images//69/b/69b6f54ee80ac0683981beea9a0aa6a2.jpg longest distance)
medium-big hand

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
medium

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
60

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
yes ( to click with thumb )

*5. What games do you play?*
fps
rpg
dota(actually LOL but the same)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
i think i dont want it









*7. Other relevant information**:*
_DURABLE, (ive heard my causin complaining about his abysus ( 2 years use) does not feel the same when he bought it, he bought a new one and the difference is big )

_i ve been using microsoft 1.1a for 4 years and still works like a charm. ( want an upgrade though ), would like to have smthg where my pinkie can rest.

ty in advance









i liked: ttesports series, Corsair Vengeance M60, rat 5 ( but does not convince me in lots of ways), naos 3200. a4tech f3/f4


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimura*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> palm / fingertip
> hand dimention:
> from middle finger to end of palm 18cm
> horizontal 10cm ( while in this position http://media.nowpublic.net/images//69/b/69b6f54ee80ac0683981beea9a0aa6a2.jpg longest distance)
> medium-big hand
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> medium
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 60
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> yes ( to click with thumb )
> *5. What games do you play?*
> fps
> rpg
> dota(actually LOL but the same)
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> i think i dont want it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *7. Other relevant information**:*
> _DURABLE, (ive heard my causin complaining about his abysus ( 2 years use) does not feel the same when he bought it, he bought a new one and the difference is big )
> _i ve been using microsoft 1.1a for 4 years and still works like a charm. ( want an upgrade though ), would like to have smthg where my pinkie can rest.
> ty in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i liked: ttesports series, Corsair Vengeance M60, rat 5 ( but does not convince me in lots of ways), naos 3200. a4tech f3/f4


The M60 has acceleration.
The Naos 3200 has angle snapping, I think.
I've never heard of the a4tech f3 or f4.
The RAT 5 is pretty good, but you should use a hard mousepad with it.

I'd recommend the Logitech G400 for palm grip (you may find it uncomfortable for finger tip grip), and the Roccat Savu for fingertip grip.


----------



## Jimura

thanks for the recommendation, one more question, what about tt esports ? noone seems to mention them , i particulary would like to know about this ones:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254001

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254090

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254077

again ty


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimura*
> 
> thanks for the recommendation, one more question, what about tt esports ? noone seems to mention them , i particulary would like to know about this ones:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254001
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254090
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254012
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254077
> again ty


The first one has a Phillips Twin Eye sensor, which is a decent sensor, but should be used on a hard, flat, surface.
The second and third ones I am not sure of the sensor, it mis probably an ADSN 9500/9800, which has acceleration, or the Phillips Twin Eye.
The last one is probably an ADSN 3090/3888 sensor, which may or may not have angle snapping enabled.

Here is a guide on mouse sensors, it will show you which sensors have major flaws in them.
http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/mouse-sensor-technology-guide-v2-0

It's usually better to go with a trusted mouse, so I would recommend any of the ones on the ADSN 3090/3888 with angle snapping disabled that they have listed there, except possibly the Puretrak Valor, I think I heard that one is awful.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

in need of a new mouse custom Razer Mambas dieing on me









*1. What's your grip style?*
palm
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
varies







at most 4500








*3. What's your maximum budget?*
none








*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
standard 2 for thumb
*5. What games do you play?*
fps








*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
doesnt bother me xD
*7. Other relevant information*
something that wont break easy


----------



## Evil Monkey

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Usually 1000dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?
*
No greater than 120

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Doesn't Really matter to me

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS's. Battlefield 3 mostly

*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*
Not Really

*7. Other relevant information:*
Prefer a heavier mouse preferably rubberised grip with some LED's and not too small

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> in need of a new mouse custom Razer Mambas dieing on me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> palm
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> varies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at most 4500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> none
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> standard 2 for thumb
> *5. What games do you play?*
> fps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> doesnt bother me xD
> *7. Other relevant information*
> something that wont break easy


The RAT 7 was pretty good, and it has the same sensor as the mamba.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Usually 1000dpi
> *3. What's your maximum budget?
> *
> No greater than 120
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Doesn't Really matter to me
> *5. What games do you play?*
> FPS's. Battlefield 3 mostly
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *
> Not Really
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Prefer a heavier mouse preferably rubberised grip with some LED's and not too small
> Thanks


The G400 would be good if you don't have large hands.


----------



## Z4PH0D

1. What's your grip style?
cant really say somewhere between palm and claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
3600-4000
3. What's your maximum budget?
around £50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
not really.
5. What games do you play?
FPS and LoL
6. Do you mind about prediction?
A bit.
7. Other relevant information:
Want something more durable than my old Xai without spending alot. have been suggested the roccat savu?

Medium-small size hands


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z4PH0D*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> cant really say somewhere between palm and claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3600-4000
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> around £50
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> not really.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS and LoL
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> A bit.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Want something more durable than my old Xai without spending alot. have been suggested the roccat savu?
> Medium-small size hands


The G400 can do 3600 DPI. You could also go for a PTE mouse, like the RAT 7; though, they usually need a hard surface to work properly.


----------



## Z4PH0D

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G400 can do 3600 DPI. You could also go for a PTE mouse, like the RAT 7; though, they usually need a hard surface to work properly.


problem is i dont like the look of G400 and RAT 7 is expensive in the UK :X


----------



## ajx

1. What's your grip style?
claw grip style

2. What's your sensitivity?
low - mid, lowest sens in l4d2 (2000 dpi),

3. What's your maximum budget?
unlimited

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes very important, i use them as functions, i need finding them very quickly and easily

5. What games do you play?
fps only, left 4 dead, payday the heist, unreal tournament, quake-like are my fav fps from far

6. Do you mind about prediction?

7. Other relevant information:
i m currently own a G700, i tried mamba, wireless mice doesnt bother me


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I just got a quick question is the Mionix Naos 5000 a good mouse?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajx*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> claw grip style
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low - mid, lowest sens in l4d2 (2000 dpi),
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> unlimited
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes very important, i use them as functions, i need finding them very quickly and easily
> 5. What games do you play?
> fps only, left 4 dead, payday the heist, unreal tournament, quake-like are my fav fps from far
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i m currently own a G700, i tried mamba, wireless mice doesnt bother me


G400 is good for low sensitivities, and claw gripping.
Quote:


> problem is i dont like the look of G400 and RAT 7 is expensive in the UK :X


The Zowie EC or AM series might work. There is the RAT 5 which is just the RAT 7 but cheaper less customizable AFAIK.


----------



## dumafourlife

*1. What's your grip style?*
I would say palm/finger tip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Ranges from 1000-2000 dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$80.00
*
4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Not necessary but would be nice to have side thumb buttons.

*5. What games do you play?*
CS, MW3, sc2

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I'm okay with it.

*7. Other relevant information:*
I've been using a g9x, g700, and deathadder BE and of those three I prefer the g9x and the DA the most. The da tracks amazingly but Its quite uncomfortable for me near the area where your palm is suppose to rest. I have fairly long hand from base of wrist to base of fingers and a long finger length so the bump in the DA is not even in my palm but more where your fingers hinge from your palm. The g9x feels great width wise but is too short for my grip. I was thinking maybe the sensei raw or something in the zowie line maybe?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dumafourlife*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> I would say palm/finger tip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Ranges from 1000-2000 dpi
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $80.00
> *
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Not necessary but would be nice to have side thumb buttons.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> CS, MW3, sc2
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'm okay with it.
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I've been using a g9x, g700, and deathadder BE and of those three I prefer the g9x and the DA the most. The da tracks amazingly but Its quite uncomfortable for me near the area where your palm is suppose to rest. I have fairly long hand from base of wrist to base of fingers and a long finger length so the bump in the DA is not even in my palm but more where your fingers hinge from your palm. The g9x feels great width wise but is too short for my grip. I was thinking maybe the sensei raw or something in the zowie line maybe?


The G400 is like the DA but with a better grip shape; I have longer fingers, and the G400 is good for me. There's also the Zowie EC series.
if you don't want acceleration, go for an (optical) ADSN 3888/3090 or a phillips twin eye sensor, though PTE sensors don't work well on cloth sometimes.


----------



## dumafourlife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G400 is like the DA but with a better grip shape; I have longer fingers, and the G400 is good for me. There's also the Zowie EC series.
> if you don't want acceleration, go for an (optical) ADSN 3888/3090 or a phillips twin eye sensor, though PTE sensors don't work well on cloth sometimes.


I'll have to try the g400 at a local store but from pictures it looks like it has a similar ergonomic shape near the fingertips( sides but near the fingertips I guess?) just as the g700 does. With the g700, it feels too narrow because of the ergonomic cutouts. I'm not even sure if any of what I said says make sense. I wish I could try the zowie products though...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dumafourlife*
> 
> I'll have to try the g400 at a local store but from pictures it looks like it has a similar ergonomic shape near the fingertips( sides but near the fingertips I guess?) just as the g700 does. With the g700, it feels too narrow because of the ergonomic cutouts. I'm not even sure if any of what I said says make sense. I wish I could try the zowie products though...


The shape of the G400 is nothing like the DA; I have both and the G400 has much more of an arched back, so you can rest your palm on it, though it is actually a little small for my hands, and the mouse buttons not being extended to the front is a bit annoying at times.
If nothing else fits, you can go for a RAT 5; it has a sensor which doesn't have any major flaws when used on hard surfaces, and it has an adjustable length.

Is there a way to measure hands? That would be helpful for giving suggestions in this thread.


----------



## thehammer007

The G400 is definitely a good mouse, probably the best for FPS out there. The G400 is very comfortable for palming and clawing, I own one and I am a very very proud owner of it, I tried the Deathadder as well but I like my G400 more, the Deathadder is as confortable as the G400 when palming, but I can't claw it. I claw my mouse whenever I play FPS and palm my mouse whenever I browse the web or when I'm playing MMOs, so the G400 is the perfect mouse for people like me IMO.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thehammer007*
> 
> The G400 is definitely a good mouse, probably the best for FPS out there. The G400 is very comfortable for palming and clawing, I own one and I am a very very proud owner of it, I tried the Deathadder as well but I like my G400 more, the Deathadder is as confortable as the G400 when palming, but I can't claw it. I claw my mouse whenever I play FPS and palm my mouse whenever I browse the web or when I'm playing MMOs, so the G400 is the perfect mouse for people like me IMO.


I was just about to ask if people think the G400 is the best for FPS gaming







, hows the scroll wheel on it coz i hear its pretty stiff


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I was just about to ask if people think the G400 is the best for FPS gaming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , hows the scroll wheel on it coz i hear its pretty stiff


It's not a great scroll wheel. It is a soft click and it ghost scrolls sometimes. I got used to it, though, and I use the middle click a lot.


----------



## thehammer007

The click on the wheel is stiffer than what I would call normal, but its fine I guess. The scrolling is not stiff at all, and I have no problems with ghosting whatsoever.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It's not a great scroll wheel. It is a soft click and it ghost scrolls sometimes. I got used to it, though, and I use the middle click a lot.


Ghost scroll







dont like that but its better then hyperscroll







. Oh is there anyway to tell if it has prediction apart from the S/N? like something on the box? or forgot to ask anyone have the cord problems like disconnecting and what not?

Thinking of picking one up today my Mambas crapped out completely


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Ghost scroll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dont like that but its better then hyperscroll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Oh is there anyway to tell if it has prediction apart from the S/N? like something on the box? or forgot to ask anyone have the cord problems like disconnecting and what not?
> Thinking of picking one up today my Mambas crapped out completely


If it has an S/N and no PID, it doesn't have prediction. If it has a PID below LZ13333 or something like that, it has prediction. It's pretty hard to find the prediction ones these days.
The ghost scroll isn't that annoying, it happens about as much as it did on my DA.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If it has an S/N, it doesn't have prediction. If it has a PID below LZ13333 or something like that, it has prediction. It's pretty hard to find the prediction ones these days.
> The ghost scroll isn't that annoying, it happens about as much as it did on my DA.


Ah ok







gonna pick one up tomorrow see how it goes























Thanks for the help xD yoou get some rep


----------



## Pip Boy

Ok try beat this one!

best wireless mouse to match a similar grip style to the Logitech MX518. With a rubbery finish, fairly silent mouse buttons (damped) and low latency wireless, with lights preferably able to turn off or change, with full linux compatibility ..

*optionally, be able to run via USB aswell as wireless including a usb charge.

that should be interesting


----------



## Alastair

Just bought a Zalman ZM-GM1 and I would recommend it to anybody who wants a serious gaming mouse without a hefty price tag. It's got a max DPI of 6000 and a min DPI of 800. Adjustable weight and has 8 programmable buttons. Cable is braided for durability with a gold plated USB. I would personally compare this mouse with the likes of the Logitech G500, Asus GX-900 and Roccat Cone although the software isn't as polished! It cost me R300 which is +- $36US! So when considering the price it is well worth it! Here! Check it out for yourselves!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Just bought a Zalman ZM-GM1 and I would recommend it to anybody who wants a serious gaming mouse without a hefty price tag. It's got a max DPI of 6000 and a min DPI of 800. Adjustable weight and has 8 programmable buttons. Cable is braided for durability with a gold plated USB. I would personally compare this mouse with the likes of the Logitech G500, Asus GX-900 and Roccat Cone although the software isn't as polished! It cost me R300 which is +- $36US! So when considering the price it is well worth it! Here! Check it out for yourselves!


Avango 9500 sensor.
It has acceleration.


----------



## Homeslicer

*1*. What's your grip style? Palm

*2*. What's your sensitivity? 400dpi, 3.47 in CSGO

*3*. What's your maximum budget? $100

*4*. Do you want additional buttons? Yes, a total of at least 5 buttons including the standard L, R, MWheel. (So at least 2 extras)

*5*. What games do you play? CSGO CSS CS 1.6

*6*. Do you mind about prediction? Yes. No prediction is crucial.

Other relevant information:
Current mouse is a wireless intellipoint 2.0. It is finally breaking after 8+ years.
I play on a cloth mousepad

I need great build quality.
I need a wired mouse.
I need a sensor with no acceleration at all.

Things I would prefer:
Low LOD would be lovely
Driverless/Plug'n'play for LANs
Non-glossy surface
Non-ambidextrous
Fairly heavy
Braided cord

Bonus info I'm curious about. I just bought a QcK mousepad for $8. It tracks terribly with my current mouse. (optical) After reading a bit about optical sensors, it seems they need something to view as moving. I assumed this was the case with my mouse. ...I was going to return it but it was only $8 so whatever. *a)* But do newer optical sensors also have problems tracking on solid-colour surfaces? *b)* Do infrared sensors have a problem with solid-colour surfaces?


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeslicer*
> 
> *1*. What's your grip style? Palm
> *2*. What's your sensitivity? 400dpi, 3.47 in CSGO
> *3*. What's your maximum budget? $100
> *4*. Do you want additional buttons? Yes, a total of at least 5 buttons including the standard L, R, MWheel. (So at least 2 extras)
> *5*. What games do you play? CSGO CSS CS 1.6
> *6*. Do you mind about prediction? Yes. No prediction is crucial.
> Other relevant information:
> Current mouse is a wireless intellipoint 2.0. It is finally breaking after 8+ years.
> I play on a cloth mousepad
> I need great build quality.
> I need a wired mouse.
> I need a sensor with no acceleration at all.
> Things I would prefer:
> Low LOD would be lovely
> Driverless/Plug'n'play for LANs
> Non-glossy surface
> Non-ambidextrous
> Fairly heavy
> Braided cord
> Bonus info I'm curious about. I just bought a QcK mousepad for $8. It tracks terribly with my current mouse. (optical) After reading a bit about optical sensors, it seems they need something to view as moving. I assumed this was the case with my mouse. ...I was going to return it but it was only $8 so whatever. *a)* But do newer optical sensors also have problems tracking on solid-colour surfaces? *b)* Do infrared sensors have a problem with solid-colour surfaces?


RAT7


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeslicer*
> 
> *1*. What's your grip style? Palm
> *2*. What's your sensitivity? 400dpi, 3.47 in CSGO
> *3*. What's your maximum budget? $100
> *4*. Do you want additional buttons? Yes, a total of at least 5 buttons including the standard L, R, MWheel. (So at least 2 extras)
> *5*. What games do you play? CSGO CSS CS 1.6
> *6*. Do you mind about prediction? Yes. No prediction is crucial.
> Other relevant information:
> Current mouse is a wireless intellipoint 2.0. It is finally breaking after 8+ years.
> I play on a cloth mousepad
> I need great build quality.
> I need a wired mouse.
> I need a sensor with no acceleration at all.
> Things I would prefer:
> Low LOD would be lovely
> Driverless/Plug'n'play for LANs
> Non-glossy surface
> Non-ambidextrous
> Fairly heavy
> Braided cord
> Bonus info I'm curious about. I just bought a QcK mousepad for $8. It tracks terribly with my current mouse. (optical) After reading a bit about optical sensors, it seems they need something to view as moving. I assumed this was the case with my mouse. ...I was going to return it but it was only $8 so whatever. *a)* But do newer optical sensors also have problems tracking on solid-colour surfaces? *b)* Do infrared sensors have a problem with solid-colour surfaces?


Ignore the RAT 7 comment, you will suit a good old optical way better.
And no, newer opticals do not have tracking problems on solid-colour surfaces.
Roccat Savu, Razer Deathadder and the Zowie EC 1 or 2 might suit you fine.
The Savu and the Deathadder has onboard memory, so you will need to download the software and fix settings there, but you can then plug out the mouse and have the same settings stored.
The Zowie mouse however, does not have drivers at all and you change the DPI and Hz on the bottom of the mouse and with buttons when you plug it in. It also has a special lens that lowers max trackingrate but it also decreases the LOD significantly.


----------



## byterhythm

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm/Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

1200 dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$100+, The more expensive the better I guess

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

2 side buttons

*5. What games do you play?*

Torchlight 2, SC2, L4D

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction

*7. Other relevant information:*

I'm currently using a TT Black, its a good mouse and I don't have any issues with it,
but after purchasing a Razer Goliathus speed, The way I use the mouse changed.
I was using a cheap $5 mousepad before and it was rough.

I want a smaller and lighter mouse than the TT Black

+ Wired
+ On the fly DPI switch with customizable DPI steps
+ Durable


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *byterhythm*
> 
> I want a smaller and lighter mouse than the TT Black


If my information is correct, Black is just 89.5g and you already find it too heavy?

SS Kana is 72g, wired, has no prediction, has one side button on either side of the mouse, making a total of two. But I guess you want two buttons both on the left hand side? Also it only has fixed DPI steps at 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 and you may need to fiddle with pointer speed settings to get the sensitivity you want.

I am not aware of any other mouse that is significantly smaller / lighter than Black and still fulfill your requirements. Let's see if others have better ideas.


----------



## byterhythm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> If my information is correct, Black is just 89.5g and you already find it too heavy?
> SS Kana is 72g, wired, has no prediction, has one side button on either side of the mouse, making a total of two. But I guess you want two buttons both on the left hand side? Also it only has fixed DPI steps at 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 and you may need to fiddle with pointer speed settings to get the sensitivity you want.
> I am not aware of any other mouse that is significantly smaller / lighter than Black and still fulfill your requirements. Let's see if others have better ideas.


Preferably 2 left side buttons, the tt black has 1 button on the left but it is awkward to use. More buttons would be useful.
About the size, probably not lighter but smaller, but not as small as the CM Spawn.


----------



## halotigerkil

1. What's your grip style?
fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
3200 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 additional buttons are handy, but could go with more/less if it's a nice mouse.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, MOBA such as CSS, CSGO, SC2, LoL, DOTA2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure exactly what it is, but probably don't want it.

7. Other relevant information:
Right handed. Currently using G9, but the right click is going out so looking for a new, different mouse although this one is really nice. One problem I had with it is the middle mouse button was really hard to press down, so frictionless scroll wheel isn't necessary but I don't mind as long as the middle mouse click is easy to press down. Size would be either close to G9 or longer would be nice.
Thanks for any help in advance


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *byterhythm*
> 
> Preferably 2 left side buttons, the tt black has 1 button on the left but it is awkward to use. More buttons would be useful.
> About the size, probably not lighter but smaller, but not as small as the CM Spawn.


That's better, if weight is not too much a concern.

I list the mice that have size between Black and Spawn with 2 buttons on the left.

Savu, Recon (about 100g though), Saphira, Sensei (narrower but longer than Black)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *halotigerkil*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3200 dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 additional buttons are handy, but could go with more/less if it's a nice mouse.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, MOBA such as CSS, CSGO, SC2, LoL, DOTA2.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not sure exactly what it is, so probably no.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Right handed. Currently using G9, but the right click is going out so looking for a new, different mouse although this one is really nice. One problem I had with it is the middle mouse button was really hard to press down, so frictionless scroll wheel isn't necessary but I don't mind as long as the middle mouse click is easy to press down. Size would be either close to G9 or longer would be nice.
> Thanks for any help in advance


See the choices above, plus Spawn.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *halotigerkil*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3200 dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 additional buttons are handy, but could go with more/less if it's a nice mouse.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, MOBA such as CSS, CSGO, SC2, LoL, DOTA2.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not sure exactly what it is, but probably don't want it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Right handed. Currently using G9, but the right click is going out so looking for a new, different mouse although this one is really nice. One problem I had with it is the middle mouse button was really hard to press down, so frictionless scroll wheel isn't necessary but I don't mind as long as the middle mouse click is easy to press down. Size would be either close to G9 or longer would be nice.
> Thanks for any help in advance


The Roccat Savu or RAT 3 would work.


----------



## Conspiracy

this is a cool thread. will definitely post here when i get closer to replacing this MX518 that is looking really worn out


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> this is a cool thread. will definitely post here when i get closer to replacing this MX518 that is looking really worn out


You could get a G400. It's pretty much the same mouse but without the angle snapping.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You could get a G400. It's pretty much the same mouse but without the angle snapping.


that looks nice. didnt even know it existed. i dont keep up with most computer stuff very well. thanks for that suggestion


----------



## WMObession

1. What's your grip style?
*Fingertips*

2. What's your sensitivity?
*400dpi*

3. What's your maximum budget?
*50€*

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Nope.*

5. What games do you play?
*QuakeLive*

6. Do you mind about prediction?
*I don't want anything that isn't what my raw hand-brain movement is precisely doing, so I don't want prediction crap or similar gimmicks.*

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I just want another WMO because mine broke, I already ordered some WMO on ebay that I hope it's the right one but in the meantime I would like to know if there is a modern mouse that is as copycat as possible to the WMO in terms of shape and performance.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WMObession*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> *Fingertips*
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> *400dpi*
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> *50€*
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *Nope.*
> 5. What games do you play?
> *QuakeLive*
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *I don't want anything that isn't what my raw hand-brain movement is precisely doing, so I don't want prediction crap or similar gimmicks.*
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I just want another WMO because mine broke, I already ordered some WMO on ebay that I hope it's the right one but in the meantime I would like to know if there is a modern mouse that is as copycat as possible to the WMO in terms of shape and performance.


The Zowie EC1 Evo looks pretty similar in shape to the WMO; the Deathadder is also somewhat similar in shape. If you want a good fingertip mouse, the Roccat Savu or RAT 3 would also be good.

I don't get the appeal of the WMO, though. I have an intellimouse explorer, and it still works after a decade, but it's never tracked very well.


----------



## Plasma

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
2000 but planning to adjust to higher
3. What's your maximum budget?
$100
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, but nothing on the Naga level
5. What games do you play?
GW2, known to play WoW, TF2, Chrome
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I mind unless it won't impact camera spinning.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I currently use Razer Lachesis. I hated it at first but grew to like it. I would have a difficult time adjusting to Mouse button 4 and 5 buttons that are in another position, but if necessary it's whatever.

Please halp me.


----------



## GreenArchon

1. What's your grip style?
*Palm*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*About 800-1500 dpi*
3. What's your maximum budget?
*About $50 (CAD)*
4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Back/Foward on the left side a huge plus*
5. What games do you play?
*Mostly shooters, but it's meant for my new laptop.*
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Nah
7. Other relevant information:
I really like my MS Sidewinder on my desktop, it's just the right size (unfortunately, it's been discontinued a while ago). I'm not looking for the best mouse ever, it's meant to be a laptop mouse, mostly used for web browsing and some gaming. Ergonomy >> prediction and stuff like that.

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plasma*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 2000 but planning to adjust to higher
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, but nothing on the Naga level
> 5. What games do you play?
> GW2, known to play WoW, TF2, Chrome
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I mind unless it won't impact camera spinning.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I currently use Razer Lachesis. I hated it at first but grew to like it. I would have a difficult time adjusting to Mouse button 4 and 5 buttons that are in another position, but if necessary it's whatever.
> Please halp me.


RAT 3 and the Roccat Savu both appear to be good fingertip grip mice. The Zowie EC2 and AM are also good mice that probably can do finger tip grip as well, but I'm not sure about that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreenArchon*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> *Palm*
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> *About 800-1500 dpi*
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> *About $50 (CAD)*
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *Back/Foward on the left side a huge plus*
> 5. What games do you play?
> *Mostly shooters, but it's meant for my new laptop.*
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Nah
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I really like my MS Sidewinder on my desktop, it's just the right size (unfortunately, it's been discontinued a while ago). I'm not looking for the best mouse ever, it's meant to be a laptop mouse, mostly used for web browsing and some gaming. Ergonomy >> prediction and stuff like that.
> Thanks


Well, the Logitech G400 is pretty much the best mouse for anyone in the sub 1600DPI range who wants to palm grip and doesn't have massive hands. The Zowie EC Evo series is also good. (warning: subjective)


----------



## Skylit

subjective subjective.


----------



## MeatFlute

I've been on the hunt for the perfect mouse for a long time. I've bought many mice and while each one has something that I like, they also have something that I dislike. Currently, I find myself switching between my Deathadder and my Zowie Evo EC2 every few days. Maybe you guys can help me find it?

*What I like about my Deathadder:* the omron switches are very responsive and feel nice to click - probably my favorite part about the mouse.
*What I dislike about it:* it's way too large and heavy for my relatively small hands, the sides have no grips so it becomes very slippery, and it has a very large lift-off distance. Has some negative acceleration @ 450 DPI. If I use a higher DPI and lower the sensitivity in the driver software, then pixel skipping occurs.

*What I like about my Zowie Evo EC2* is that the mouse is almost the perfect shape and size, it has a very small lift-off distance, it has a nice texture that makes it easy to grip, and is not too heavy.
*What I dislike about it:* Clicking requires quite a bit of force and my index finger hurts REALLY badly if I play SC2 for more than a couple hours, and it has a strange build defect where the laser light shines through a gap between the body and the scroll wheel which reflects off of my monitor and shines directly into my eye.

So basically, both have severe flaws (for me).

1. What's your grip style? **Fingertip*

2. What's your sensitivity? **400-600 DPI*

3. What's your maximum budget? **None*

4. Do you want additional buttons? **Don't care*

5. What games do you play? **Starcraft 2*

6. Do you mind about prediction? **Very much...big nono*

7. Other relevant information:

Any negative/positive accel is a dealbreaker. Same with angle-snapping. One thing that I have discovered that I very strongly dislike are Huano switches - they cause fatigue in my finger after long sessions. Omron switches feel the most comfortable to me. Also, I strongly prefer using large cloth pads, particularly the QCK+, so it's important that the mouse doesn't jitter on cloth pads. Also, weight is pretty important.

I play on really low sensitivity in all games, so anything that weighs more than 90 grams is a pain. Lastly, I have pretty small hands and use the fingertip grip, so I need something pretty small. The Zowie Evo's shape is pretty spot on, but something even smaller (slightly) would be ideal. Also, rubber coating is nice.

*Mice I have ruled out already:*
-Anything made by Zowie (they all use Huano switches)
-CM Storm Spawn (lowest DPI is 800 and has major problems at that DPI)

Thanks for reading.

_**Sorry for the long post, this is copy pasta'd from a thread I made which didn't get many replies.**_


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeatFlute*
> 
> I've been on the hunt for the perfect mouse for a long time. I've bought many mice and while each one has something that I like, they also have something that I dislike. Currently, I find myself switching between my Deathadder and my Zowie Evo EC2 every few days. Maybe you guys can help me find it?
> *What I like about my Deathadder:* the omron switches are very responsive and feel nice to click - probably my favorite part about the mouse.
> *What I dislike about it:* it's way too large and heavy for my relatively small hands, the sides have no grips so it becomes very slippery, and it has a very large lift-off distance. Has some negative acceleration @ 450 DPI. If I use a higher DPI and lower the sensitivity in the driver software, then pixel skipping occurs.
> *What I like about my Zowie Evo EC2* is that the mouse is almost the perfect shape and size, it has a very small lift-off distance, it has a nice texture that makes it easy to grip, and is not too heavy.
> *What I dislike about it:* Clicking requires quite a bit of force and my index finger hurts REALLY badly if I play SC2 for more than a couple hours, and it has a strange build defect where the laser light shines through a gap between the body and the scroll wheel which reflects off of my monitor and shines directly into my eye.
> So basically, both have severe flaws (for me).
> 1. What's your grip style? **Fingertip*
> 2. What's your sensitivity? **400-600 DPI*
> 3. What's your maximum budget? **None*
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? **Don't care*
> 5. What games do you play? **Starcraft 2*
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? **Very much...big nono*
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Any negative/positive accel is a dealbreaker. Same with angle-snapping. One thing that I have discovered that I very strongly dislike are Huano switches - they cause fatigue in my finger after long sessions. Omron switches feel the most comfortable to me. Also, I strongly prefer using large cloth pads, particularly the QCK+, so it's important that the mouse doesn't jitter on cloth pads. Also, weight is pretty important.
> I play on really low sensitivity in all games, so anything that weighs more than 90 grams is a pain. Lastly, I have pretty small hands and use the fingertip grip, so I need something pretty small. The Zowie Evo's shape is pretty spot on, but something even smaller (slightly) would be ideal. Also, rubber coating is nice.
> *Mice I have ruled out already:*
> -Anything made by Zowie (they all use Huano switches)
> -CM Storm Spawn (lowest DPI is 800 and has major problems at that DPI)
> Thanks for reading.
> _**Sorry for the long post, this is copy pasta'd from a thread I made which didn't get many replies.**_


The only ADSN 3090/s3888 mice you haven't gone through yet that I believe are good are the Logitech G400, the RAT 3 and the Roccat Savu. I'm actually surprised that you have detected acceleration on the Deathadder, I can't detect any on mine.
The Logitech G400 is too heavy and bad for fingertip, so that is out.
I have no idea what the RAT 3 weights.
The Savu weighs 90 grams, so it is probably your best option.
these all have no acceleration or prediction, but I have no idea what buttons they have.


----------



## WMObession

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Zowie EC1 Evo looks pretty similar in shape to the WMO; the Deathadder is also somewhat similar in shape. If you want a good fingertip mouse, the Roccat Savu or RAT 3 would also be good.
> I don't get the appeal of the WMO, though. I have an intellimouse explorer, and it still works after a decade, but it's never tracked very well.


These things have too many buttons. I want a symple symmetrical shape like WMO, with no side buttons or anything.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WMObession*
> 
> These things have too many buttons. I want a symple symmetrical shape like WMO, with no side buttons or anything.


I doubt you'll find anything without side buttons. The Zowie AM is symmetrical with small side buttons.


----------



## WMObession

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I doubt you'll find anything without side buttons. The Zowie AM is symmetrical with small side buttons.


**** my life


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WMObession*
> 
> **** my life


Why don't you like side buttons? They never really get in the way, in my experience.


----------



## WMObession

In mine they do. Also I like to keep things simple. It makes me stressed just by knowing there is something clicklable on there.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WMObession*
> 
> In mine they do. Also I like to keep things simple. It makes me stressed just by knowing there is something clicklable on there.


In games, you could unbind them. It would really increase your options. I just realized that the Razer Abyssus has no buttons; it has a S3888 sensor with angle snapping disabled, so it's a good mouse; no acceleration or significant jitter.
I'm not really familiar with mice that don't use the ADSN A3090/S3888 sensor, so I have seen a couple that might work, but I don't know enough about them to recommend them.
SS Kinzu V2 (the non V2 is terrible) - budget sensor, SS fixed the skipping bug
Roccat lua - budget sensor, no jitter issues that I have heard of


----------



## Conspiracy

im curious to see what all is out there to look at. i should be getting a paycheck soon. and dont have many major expenses so i want to spend a little on a few inexpensive things i have needed/wanted for a while.

mouse is a want more than a need









1. What's your grip style? *fingertip*

2. What's your sensitivity? *in the middle, i have my mx518 set to 1000dpi with default windows settings for mouse speed*

3. What's your maximum budget? *i dont want to spend more than $50 and even 50 seems a little pricey but i do appreciate quality*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *i really like the 2 side thumb buttons and the mouse wheel to also click (not sure if that is a normal default thing for all mice or not)*

5. What games do you play? *i mainly play fps games, only borderlands 2 right now but enjoy games like borderlands, left4dead, and occasionally call of duty on the rare occasion*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *not 100% sure i understand what it is and why it exists but i dont like the idea of it. i want my mouse to be really accurate to what i do, not what it thinks im going to do*

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: i have been using the mx518 since it came out so i have not had any experience with many other mice for a long time. i do want a wired mouse so i dont have to worry about batteries while im working on something important. i do a lot of video and photo editing so i just want a mouse that feels nice to use and feels like its very precise while using it. im really open to just about anything and have no preferences on brand other than i want something that is nice quality, precise, and feels great to use which i think is the basics for everyone's desire in a mouse







im mainly looking for something new so i really dont want to buy another mx518 again, i dislike the logitech logo that was in it as it is totally worn out on my mouse and you cant even tell what it use to be because its now a worn out grey circle on the back of my mouse that looks like its been sanded down lol.
_edit:_ also that feature where when you lift the mouse up and the cursor doesnt move. that would be awesome. i saw it mentioned somewhere and when i tested it on my mx518 which i already knew about but yea my cursor jumps around all over the place when i lift the mouse up. i would like to not have that problem anymore


----------



## WMObession

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> In games, you could unbind them. It would really increase your options. I just realized that the Razer Abyssus has no buttons; it has a S3888 sensor with angle snapping disabled, so it's a good mouse; no acceleration or significant jitter.
> I'm not really familiar with mice that don't use the ADSN A3090/S3888 sensor, so I have seen a couple that might work, but I don't know enough about them to recommend them.
> SS Kinzu V2 (the non V2 is terrible) - budget sensor, SS fixed the skipping bug
> Roccat lua - budget sensor, no jitter issues that I have heard of


Abyssus jitters like hell on a lot of different surfaces, such as the QCK HEAVY (my pad)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WMObession*
> 
> Abyssus jitters like hell on a lot of different surfaces, such as the QCK HEAVY (my pad)


Really? It has the same sensor as the DA.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> im curious to see what all is out there to look at. i should be getting a paycheck soon. and dont have many major expenses so i want to spend a little on a few inexpensive things i have needed/wanted for a while.
> mouse is a want more than a need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? *fingertip*
> 2. What's your sensitivity? *in the middle, i have my mx518 set to 1000dpi with default windows settings for mouse speed*
> 3. What's your maximum budget? *i dont want to spend more than $50 and even 50 seems a little pricey but i do appreciate quality*
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? *i really like the 2 side thumb buttons and the mouse wheel to also click (not sure if that is a normal default thing for all mice or not)*
> 5. What games do you play? *i mainly play fps games, only borderlands 2 right now but enjoy games like borderlands, left4dead, and occasionally call of duty on the rare occasion*
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? *not 100% sure i understand what it is and why it exists but i dont like the idea of it. i want my mouse to be really accurate to what i do, not what it thinks im going to do*
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: i have been using the mx518 since it came out so i have not had any experience with many other mice for a long time. i do want a wired mouse so i dont have to worry about batteries while im working on something important. i do a lot of video and photo editing so i just want a mouse that feels nice to use and feels like its very precise while using it. im really open to just about anything and have no preferences on brand other than i want something that is nice quality, precise, and feels great to use which i think is the basics for everyone's desire in a mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im mainly looking for something new so i really dont want to buy another mx518 again, i dislike the logitech logo that was in it as it is totally worn out on my mouse and you cant even tell what it use to be because its now a worn out grey circle on the back of my mouse that looks like its been sanded down lol.
> _edit:_ also that feature where when you lift the mouse up and the cursor doesnt move. that would be awesome. i saw it mentioned somewhere and when i tested it on my mx518 which i already knew about but yea my cursor jumps around all over the place when i lift the mouse up. i would like to not have that problem anymore


I would suggest the Logitech G400.









If you want low LOD and a mouse like the MX518, then you could go for the Zowie EC1 Evo.


----------



## Conspiracy

i dont see any difference between the G400 and mx518 doesnt look like any improvement at all. other than higher dpi it looks like a re-branded mx518 from the specs on newegg lol


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> i dont see any difference between the G400 and mx518 doesnt look like any improvement at all. other than higher dpi it looks like a re-branded mx518 from the specs on newegg lol


No prediction, better feet than some of the mx518s, and a lighter cord. It's a bit of an upgrade on the mx518, but it is still pretty much the same mouse.


----------



## Skylit

Down grade on an internal matter. ID is the same with a different coating.


----------



## Conspiracy

what else is out there in the $50 under range that is of the same quality as the mx518?

are the razr mice actually any good? seems like everyone is going crazy over razr, steelseries, and a few other companies that i guess are now on the mouse market lol. im way behind


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> what else is out there in the $50 under range that is of the same quality as the mx518?
> are the razr mice actually any good? seems like everyone is going crazy over razr, steelseries, and a few other companies that i guess are now on the mouse market lol. im way behind


Razer makes mice with pretty poor build qualities. The only mouse with a good sensor is the Deathadder, and possibly the Abyssus.
Zowie makes good mice; I've heard good things about the EC Evo series and the AM series. Those two series have good sensors with low LOD.
Logitech makes the G400.
Steelseries loves the A9500/A9800 sensor, so don't bother with them.
Cooler master makes the storm spawn, which I have heard mixed reviews about.
Roccat makes a wide range of mice. The one most people recommend is the Savu, which has a good sensor in it.


----------



## Trito

So witch setup should I choose?
1) Logitech G700
2) Logitech G500 + Xbox 360 controller

I need one for laptop gaming (Retina Macbook Pro)


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Razer makes mice with pretty poor build qualities. The only mouse with a good sensor is the Deathadder, and possibly the Abyssus.
> Zowie makes good mice; I've heard good things about the EC Evo series and the AM series. Those two series have good sensors with low LOD.
> Logitech makes the G400.
> Steelseries loves the A9500/A9800 sensor, so don't bother with them.
> Cooler master makes the storm spawn, which I have heard mixed reviews about.
> Roccat makes a wide range of mice. The one most people recommend is the Savu, which has a good sensor in it.


sounds like Logitech is the way to go still









how is the G500? is it any good? i remember it coming out a while ago or would the G400 still be a better update to a mx518? i doubt i would ever use the highest DPI setting but i would see myself using the lower DPI setting for precise stuff like photo editing? the only difference i see is the G500 having a minimum DPI of 200 and the G400 has 400, also laser versus optical which i have not been able to find any definite answer on which is better assuming they are equally good


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Razer makes mice with pretty poor build qualities. The only mouse with a good sensor is the Deathadder, and possibly the Abyssus.
> Zowie makes good mice; I've heard good things about the EC Evo series and the AM series. Those two series have good sensors with low LOD.
> Logitech makes the G400.
> Steelseries loves the A9500/A9800 sensor, so don't bother with them.
> Cooler master makes the storm spawn, which I have heard mixed reviews about.
> Roccat makes a wide range of mice. The one most people recommend is the Savu, which has a good sensor in it.


Razer isn't bad on an internal matter. A lot of their ID could use improvement, though the taipan and Oroboros is on a different level from the rest of the line.

I'm not a fan of Zowies hardware choices. I'm sure they'll make changes one way or another down the line. I think theres quite a bit of irony when discussing competing products. I didn't find the ID to be anything phenomenal.

G400 is a cheap mouse ^^ Prob the lowest cost production compared to competitors products in the same ballpark. Logitech can do this though. Pretty big and offer good support.

It's not that Steelseries loves those sensors, but rather what "sells" in a consumer market.

Spawn is a good mouse for a low price. Firmware/hardware needs a little adjusting, but im nitpicking. Competitors offer simular performance.

Savu is Prob my favorite mouse in terms of tracking fidelity. IPS tracking speed is iffy on some pads (not good for low sens arm based movement, but fine for normal wrist). I think thier ID is a little over exaggerated, but it sells.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trito*
> 
> So witch setup should I choose?
> 1) Logitech G700
> 2) Logitech G500 + Xbox 360 controller
> I need one for laptop gaming (Retina Macbook Pro)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> sounds like Logitech is the way to go still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is the G500? is it any good? i remember it coming out a while ago or would the G400 still be a better update to a mx518? i doubt i would ever use the highest DPI setting but i would see myself using the lower DPI setting for precise stuff like photo editing? the only difference i see is the G500 having a minimum DPI of 200 and the G400 has 400, also laser versus optical which i have not been able to find any definite answer on which is better assuming they are equally good


The G400 goes down to 200 DPI in the software.
The G500 and G700 are both mice which use a LASER sensor that has acceleration built in.


----------



## Skylit

Though, being LASER has nothing to do with the rather small acceleration curve^^


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Though, being LASER has nothing to do with the rather small acceleration curve^^


The DIP-16 sensor is the most common LASER sensor. Are there any LASER sensors that don't have acceleration? The PTE doesn't count.


----------



## Conspiracy

can acceleration be turned off? is acceleration similar to the prediction thing?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> can acceleration be turned off? is acceleration similar to the prediction thing?


Some sensors have acceleration built into the hardware, like the ADSN A9800/A9500.


----------



## Conspiracy

ill do more research. if G500 doesnt suit my fancy with being able to turn some of the unwanted stuff off then ill look further into the G400


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> ill do more research. if G500 doesnt suit my fancy with being able to turn some of the unwanted stuff off then ill look further into the G400


If you don't want acceleration, don't get the G500.


----------



## Conspiracy

that settles that then







thanks for the help


----------



## Skylit

Hes over hyping the accel. I'm not agreeing that it's perfect, but the average person isn't going to freaking notice a minimal 5% -/+ curve.

Do I want a linear sensor? Sure, but sometimes I feel that stuff gets blown way out of proportion.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The DIP-16 sensor is the most common LASER sensor. Are there any LASER sensors that don't have acceleration? The PTE doesn't count.


Why doesn't the PTE count? It has no accel.

I suppose I'm picky with how stuff is explained. You see, I don't view the 9500/9800 as a LASER, but rather a CMOS sensor. CMOS sensors can use a VCSEL(LASER), or LED(OPTICAL) illumination sources.

When you say "The G500 and G700 are both mice which use a LASER sensor that has acceleration built in". The common person is going to interpret that like all LASER mice have acceleration when thats not even the case. The truth of the matter is that there are many VCSEL CMOS based sensors that offer linear tracking, though the previous gaming architecture has been discontinued and all current non gaming models dont work as well in this environment.

Are the 9500/9800 common? Sure I'll agree with that.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Skylit the razer impreator 2012 has no accel if that true im might as well use one since im using hard for like monthis now


----------



## Skylit

I believe Razer added some dynamic DPI scaling crap that never got removed. In return you have your mouse scaling up and down randomly, but I'm not sure if a recent driver fixed that.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Hes over hyping the accel. I'm not agreeing that it's perfect, but the average person isn't going to freaking notice a minimal 5% -/+ curve.
> Do I want a linear sensor? Sure, but sometimes I feel that stuff gets blown way out of proportion.
> Why doesn't the PTE count? It has no accel.
> I suppose I'm picky with how stuff is explained. You see, I don't view the 9500/9800 as a LASER, but rather a CMOS sensor. CMOS sensors can use a VCSEL(LASER), or LED(OPTICAL) illumination sources.
> When you say "The G500 and G700 are both mice which use a LASER sensor that has acceleration built in". The common person is going to interpret that like all LASER mice have acceleration when thats not even the case. The truth of the matter is that there are many VCSEL CMOS based sensors that offer linear tracking, though the previous gaming architecture has been discontinued and all current non gaming models dont work as well in this environment.
> Are the 9500/9800 common? Sure I'll agree with that.


I've used my friend's Xai before, and it is noticeable if you are using a low sensitivity.
I also don't count the twin eye because it's a different type of sensor, and usually labelled as a twin eye sensor when you buy a mouse with it.


----------



## Riou

My old MX revolution has a "Laser" sensor that has no acceleration afaik. Same for G3, G5, G7 and G9. You cannot just say all laser sensors have acceleration.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> My old MX revolution has a "Laser" sensor that has no acceleration afaik. Same for G3, G5, G7 and G9. You cannot just say all laser sensors have acceleration.


Well, that would explain why I never said that all LASER sensors have acceleration.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've used my friend's Xai before, and it is noticeable if you are using a low sensitivity.
> I also don't count the twin eye because it's a different type of sensor, and usually labelled as a twin eye sensor when you buy a mouse with it.


It's noticeable if you're looking for a flaw or have a fair bit of experience with another products without any minor acceleration curve then instantly switch, though it isn't impossible to relearn or grasp the pattern of how you game.

A lot of this is simply psychological and I only realized this after learning how to game left handed. Yes *anyone* would be more comfortable with a perfect sensor, but practice and skill goes way further regardless.

On a personal level, motion on my right hand is much more skilled and the small accel curve doesn't really hinder me, though I can see how it might be a problem if you've learned a certain way on a specific sensor than swapped out to something slightly different. In which case, what I feel left handed (limited experience, 6 months).

You know it's funny. The architects in charge of these sensors don't acknowledge the small accel. Suppose they're casuals ^^

I already know quite a bit of people disagree with me, but that's okay. This simply how feel about the subject. I would like a linear 9500/9800 regardless.

As for twin eye. I actually consider this a "real laser" sensor as it uses a newer Doppler method technology to track. Ofc this is much different than what people are used to and thus issues are formed from using the tech improperly (aka cloth surfaces causing tracking imperfections), though the sensor is still sensitive itself if you don't keep up with cleaning the area.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, that would explain why I never said that all LASER sensors have acceleration.


Though I got the impression that all laser mice have acceleration.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> It's noticeable if you're looking for a flaw or have a fair bit of experience with another products without any minor acceleration curve then instantly switch, though it isn't impossible to relearn or grasp the pattern of how you game.
> A lot of this is simply psychological and I only realized this after learning how to game left handed. Yes *anyone* would be more comfortable with a perfect sensor, but practice and skill goes way further regardless.
> On a personal level, motion on my right hand is much more skilled and the small accel curve doesn't really hinder me, though I can see how it might be a problem if you've learned a certain way on a specific sensor than swapped out to something slightly different. In which case, what I feel left handed (limited experience, 6 months).
> You know it's funny. The architects in charge of these sensors don't acknowledge the small accel. Suppose they're casuals ^^
> I already know quite a bit of people disagree with me, but that's okay. This simply how feel about the subject. I would like a linear 9500/9800 regardless.
> As for twin eye. I actually consider this a "real laser" sensor as it uses a newer Doppler method technology to track. Ofc this is much different than what people are used to and thus issues are formed from using the tech improperly (aka cloth surfaces causing tracking imperfections), though the sensor is still sensitive itself if you don't keep up with cleaning the area.


It may be just from the fact that I have only used mice with the DIP-20 optical sensor for extended periods of time, but I definitely notice it whenever there is some kind of acceleration curve. You may get used to it, but because your mouse won't point to the same place every time, due to the acceleration, you won't be as good as if you were using a mouse with no acceleration, due to the muscle memory. That's how one of my friends convinced me that acceleration and prediction were terrible.

The twin eye sensor is definitely a good sensor, but it only works on hard surfaces, and it is incredibly sensitive to dust. It would be nice if they found a way to fix that.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> You may get used to it, but because your mouse won't point to the same place every time, due to the acceleration, you won't be as good as if you were using a mouse with no acceleration, due to the muscle memory.


You and many others may repeat and claim the same lines over and over, but I don't agree at this point in time. The human body and brain can adapt to stuff well beyond what people can imagine. I mean were not cavemen after all, are we? The level of individual skill and comfort are much more important factors imho.


----------



## Gabriel Ruan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You may get used to it, but because your mouse won't point to the same place every time, due to the acceleration, you won't be as good as if you were using a mouse with no acceleration, due to the muscle memory.


Pseudoscience. I agree with Skylit.


----------



## Skylit

I could bring factors into the mix that people don't really care about, though If I pushed hard enough... People from left and right will start making a big deal about it..lol


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I could bring factors into the mix that people don't really care about, though If I pushed hard enough... People from left and right will start making a big deal about it..lol


Maybe it's like the 120Hz vs 60Hz thing. lol


----------



## Skylit

Let me make myself clear in case anyone wants wants to challenge this. I'm all for products accepted by everyone, but a lot of the time stuff gets over hyped or exaggerated within a group or forum because a specific product is slightly different from the last one (guilty myself). A lot of the times this gets misinterpreted as being extremely bad and basically marketed around multiple forums that a specific product sucks because of a little small flaw when a majority the population wouldn't care or notice if it wasn't brought up in the first place. For those that actually have a issue, by all means, though I don't think that's the case in this situation.

Another thing I'm specifically guilty for is the early A3090 hype which didn't work out well for a couple brands that wanted to capitalize on the enthusiast community. While they set out to release a couple products, the consumers were met with poor firmware implementation that eventually turned into "A3090 sucks" compared to the established S3888 and A3080 of the Deathadder (no angle snapping) and MX518 (angle snapping) though, this was before the fact that I knew or presented info that people didn't quite understand prior. This was because the community themselves were marketing the sensors as better or worse than the next one while the hardware was essentially the same differing by ROM (lol angle snapping).

Anyway after that little fiasco, another brand released their variation into the mix, but approached it with really thought out marketing targeting those other two brands that failed to deliver by stating such and such hacked the sensor and what not, but in reality this company was doing the same thing with their specific OEM. Ofc later on one of those early companies eventually went back and asked for a much better firmware set which does quite well, but alas the community still latches on to first impressions and we find people still stating a product sucks even tho the issues were corrected awhile back. Granted, I still think the firmware or hardware could use slight adjustment, but I'm honestly nitpicking the minor things that hardly get brought up. While the 3rd company did out perform the first two initially, I personally found greater issues within their mouse itself. Though did many people care? ofc not, High IPS tracking speed was number #1 in the minds of many and they finally had something usable regardless of how poor the tracking looked in my eyes.

I can go further and explain a lot of stuff people wouldn't expect nor believe, though I've seen what happens to other communities when info like that is presented. I suppose I'm just trying to be fair towards the market and brands.


----------



## Vikhr

As one of those people that believed that IPS is more important than say ergonomics and that the 3090 would be the end all sensor, I agree with your post Skylit. At least I learned a bit about my own preferences and priorities when it comes to mice, although it was quite expensive in the end. I still feel a bit guilty about riding the 3090/Zowie train so heavily.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I can go further and explain a lot of stuff people wouldn't expect nor believe, though I've seen what happens to other communities when info like that is presented. I suppose I'm just trying to be fair towards the market and brands.


I'd like to hear the factors that I "wouldn't expect". I'd like to hear what they are; it would probably help in my choice of future mice.

I'd also like to make it clear that I really don't know if that thing about muscle memory is true or not. In my experience, I have found that even when I got used to acceleration, it just made my aiming worse.
I don't actually notice prediction, however; that one sounds like it would be annoying, but I can't feel it at all. Maybe it's worse at high sensitivities.
Quote:


> As one of those people that believed that IPS is more important than say ergonomics and that the 3090 would be the end all sensor, I agree with your post Skylit. At least I learned a bit about my own preferences and priorities when it comes to mice, although it was quite expensive in the end. I still feel a bit guilty about riding the 3090/Zowie train so heavily.


Yeah, ergonomics is probably the most important to a mouse other than its sensor not jittering noticably; that's why I bought a G400.


----------



## AquaSurfer

My little obsession with mice started around 2 years ago, now it has moved to another field because i can see now that it doesn't really matter if you are using gamepad mouse or even arrow keys to aim. There is something else that really matters. I'm Quake player so excuse my bias.

Form my perspective, with the knowledge i have now I have to say that mouse doesn't matter as long as it is predictable and you are willing to adapt.

by this i mean:

can have acceleration (even if it looks like 9500 curve) as long as its not changing.
prediction is not a problem
sensor doesn't have to be in center of the mouse
LOD doesn't matter as long as it's in reasonable range (<10mm, >0.5mm, seriously you can adapt to that)
Perfect control/Malfunction speed doesn't matter but you have to be/become high sens player.
there cannot be jitter/ripple ( it's usually specific mouse-mousepad combo so its hard to say "this mouse jitters" etc..)
DPI cannot change(it would feel like variable acceleration). It could happen with multi colored mousepad.
Most of the problems people have are a result of old habits and lack of will to adapt(i don't say its bad, i say its possible and it will only lower your skills while in the process). It would be similar effort for someone used to 9500 mouse to switch to linear tracking mouse as the opposite.

I believe the best example is SS Kinzu(heavy prediction and acceleration) and Quake player Strenx(one of the top players in the world). He used to play with mx518 then his sponsor forced him to use kinzu, with which he played very good after adaptation process. After few years he wasn't forced to use it anymore so he picked his old trusty mx518 and guess what happened... he didnt like it and went back to kinzu and he is using it right now.
I know great players with sensitivities as high as 1cm/360 and as low as 100cm/360.

Muscle memory works even with mouse acceleration so it is not only storing distance but probably anything that is needed speed, time, distance etc.

*OK Here is controversial part







*
You probably can play with x360 pad as good as a player with mouse and keyboard.





_p.s. I'm still going to buy Aurora














this obsession is still in my head







_


----------



## WMObession

it doesn't matter if you can adapt and do well with a bad mouse, if there is a better mouse out there is stupid to try to adapt to something worse. Example: rapha using a WMO with a SS sticker on top.


----------



## Conspiracy

i had no clue mice were this complicated lol. i thought the only difference other than brands was dpi and the shape and how it feels when you use it


----------



## meih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> i had no clue mice were this complicated lol. i thought the only difference other than brands was dpi and the shape and how it feels when you use it


Because that's what they want you to think and that's why companies with their 8200 dpi mice sell so much.


----------



## AquaSurfer

AFAIK rapha wants to change his wmo to something else because this old mouse is problematic at lans with its 125hz. He was interested in kana because dahang is using it








He didn't want to change to Xai and i understand that, why would anyone change something that works.

With your first mouse you create your habits and as long as it is a reliable mouse and you are playing good with it you are going to assume its a good mouse.
Then someone gives you one without prediction and at first you suck in game because you have to adapt. Some players would assume its a bad mouse and throw it away, unless there are many players that are good with it. It is similar with acceleration and LOD.

We usually recommend as universal mouse as possible and i agree it is good in most cases but sometimes when a mouse meets the requirements of a user, there is someone who comes to say that the sensor is garbage. Garbage because it is not suited for low sens players or something like that and that is sad.
Informing potential buyer about all possible restrictions/flaws is important but it looks how it looks.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> AFAIK rapha wants to change his wmo to something else because this old mouse is problematic at lans with its 125hz. He was interested in kana because dahang is using it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't want to change to Xai and i understand that, why would anyone change something that works.
> With your first mouse you create your habits and as long as it is a reliable mouse and you are playing good with it you are going to assume its a good mouse.
> Then someone gives you one without prediction and at first you suck in game because you have to adapt. Some players would assume its a bad mouse and throw it away, unless there are many players that are good with it. It is similar with acceleration and LOD.
> We usually recommend as universal mouse as possible and i agree it is good in most cases but sometimes when a mouse meets the requirements of a user, there is someone who comes to say that the sensor is garbage. Garbage because it is not suited for low sens players or something like that and that is sad.
> Informing potential buyer about all possible restrictions/flaws is important but it looks how it looks.


Spot on. Stopped contributing to thread when 1) old thread starter wanted to maintain ownership and there was no way for me to upkeep the OP without violating the TOS, 2) people flame opinions of mice for your listed reason, & 3) almost no one says thanks for the opinion.

The actual technical aspects are not always as important as the form factor and how similar the new mouse is to your previous one. It takes time to adapt to something new, and most people just say that something different sucks. Thread seems to have deviated and lost its purpose of making suggestions on mice for the purpose of meeting the person's criteria.


----------



## Conspiracy

so because i dont seem to fully understand from the guide explaining the different sensors. what is the major difference between laser/optical, opinions on which are better is not needed as that is probably subjective.

i care more about when i move my mouse that i feel like it is doing exactly what im telling it to and that its accurate and feels accurate moving the mouse around. im not a hardcore gamer or anything but i use my mouse A LOT while editing video and photos.

im currently trying to decide between the G400 and G500 with the biggest difference being laser/optical sensor.

which one is going to have that really nice accurate feel to it? all other bs aside unless it has prediction and acceleration that makes it hard to use the mouse and cant be turned off


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> so because i dont seem to fully understand from the guide explaining the different sensors. what is the major difference between laser/optical, opinions on which are better is not needed as that is probably subjective.
> i care more about when i move my mouse that i feel like it is doing exactly what im telling it to and that its accurate and feels accurate moving the mouse around. im not a hardcore gamer or anything but i use my mouse A LOT while editing video and photos.
> im currently trying to decide between the G400 and G500 with the biggest difference being laser/optical sensor.
> which one is going to have that really nice accurate feel to it? all other bs aside unless it has prediction and acceleration that makes it hard to use the mouse and cant be turned off


Neither have prediction. The G500 has acceleration, which may be annoying to you; acceleration doesn't really matter if you aren't gaming, though. The LASER sensor can track at a higher DPI, but it doesn't really matter; you probably will never need over 800, if you like low sensitivity, and 1600 if you like high sensitivity. The LASER sensor probably has a higher tracking speed, but I doubt anyone actually needs more than 60 IPS.
I'm told that the G500 has better build quality. It definitely has a better scroll wheel.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> Form my perspective, with the knowledge i have now I have to say that mouse doesn't matter as long as it is predictable and you are willing to adapt.


Mouse only matters as long as it fits the way the gamer plays, or the gamer adapts to the mouse. Since no one is equal, some people will be better with certain settings than with a completely different configuration, so you might want to get the right mouse for the gamestyle that you get the best results on. In this scenario, mouse does matter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> Muscle memory works even with mouse acceleration so it is not only storing distance but probably anything that is needed speed, time, distance etc.


Distance and speed is doable with linear accel.

You can't do it without linear accel, though, so aiming without linear accel means aiming on the general area and then aiming to the specific area you want to hit. I can see that as a bit worse than flick-shots, but not by much on current hardware (5% random accel? Not a huge deal as we usually make it out to be on those forums, for like 90% of the games, which are slow enough).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> *OK Here is controversial part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> You probably can play with x360 pad as good as a player with mouse and keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _p.s. I'm still going to buy Aurora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this obsession is still in my head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


This guy is not using a gamepad at all from 1:00 on, or if he is, he's got a low-fov bot to compensate for small movements and a bind to autoaim at some points, that's if it's even him (too many changes on the gfx config to be him all the time, no?







). It's physically impossible to make flick shots at high speeds with a controller on his settings, and he's doing them. The deadzone of the stick doesn't seem to work, which is a hardware limitation, and still he tracks with LG flawlessly on the stick's deadzone. He could still be using weird accel settings, but seeing the granularity of the inputs (cursor jumping wildly), I remain skeptical.

From 0:00 to 1:00 he might be using a gamepad, playing against lvl 1 bots and only posting the most impressive shots (hey that's what videos on youtube are for, aren't they?), which are still a far cry from what any mid skill level can do with a mouse and keyboard.

There's another video where he shows how he's playing with the gamepad and he's not even a shadow of himself there :





So yes, you can play with an XBOX360 controller as good as low level player with mouse and keyboard.

I remember watching some vids of a famous CoD player in spain with my teammates on TS3, and we were laughing at how bad he was. Later on we found out he was playing big international tourneys on XBOX360. We thought they were trolling us, when we got told xD


----------



## Conspiracy

im not 100% sure what tracking speed actually means. but when im editing movies/photos i would probably be switching between dpi settings with the up/down rocker on the mouse. but when just surfing online and general computer use i have my mx518 has high as it goes. when i do play video games im in the middle sensitivity on my mouse and low middle sensitivity on the slider in the in-game menu.

if its possible to turn off mouse accelleration then the G500 might be a winner if its overall better build quality and scroll wheel. i use scroll wheel a lot


----------



## Riou

Some mice stop tracking if you move the mouse too fast. Most people will not experience this issue. People that experience this issue play at very low sensitivities (like 30 inches to makes a 360 degree turn in first person shooter games).


----------



## Skylit

The acceleration is a _minor_ 5% -/+ curve. It's "random" within 5% of linear tracking. I doubt you would have even noticed if you just went out and bought the mouse, but now it's in your head.

Since you're going to be swapping DPI regardless, Just go out and buy the G500. It's a more consistent (cursor wise) throughout the lower and higher CPI range. Also easier to change DPI +/-. G400's +/- buttons aren't as responsive and a majority of the DPI customization is done by controller recalculation of the two native values (800/3600).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> *OK Here is controversial part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> You probably can play with x360 pad as good as a player with mouse and keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _p.s. I'm still going to buy Aurora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this obsession is still in my head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


I have been a console player longer than I've been a PC player, and I can tell you that those joysticks are terrible. That guy may be able to control it fairly well, but you need to have the sensitivity at an insane level to be able to turn around that quickly in games, which makes it really hard to be accurate.
Quote:


> im not 100% sure what tracking speed actually means. but when im editing movies/photos i would probably be switching between dpi settings with the up/down rocker on the mouse. but when just surfing online and general computer use i have my mx518 has high as it goes. when i do play video games im in the middle sensitivity on my mouse and low middle sensitivity on the slider in the in-game menu.
> 
> if its possible to turn off mouse accelleration then the G500 might be a winner if its overall better build quality and scroll wheel. i use scroll wheel a lot


You just can't turn off mouse acceleration on the A9500 sensor. When you aren't in game, you won't notice it, and especially on the higher sensitivites.
Quote:


> Some mice stop tracking if you move the mouse too fast. Most people will not experience this issue. People that experience this issue play at very low sensitivities (like 30 inches to makes a 360 degree turn in first person shooter games).


I've experienced that on my decade old intellimouse; it stops tracking when you exceed a certain speed, which is laughably low.


----------



## Skylit

I also forgot to mention that I don't really see the point in recommending a perfect mouse if input methods aren't explained properly. You can hit inconsistent acceleration with the most accurate mouse in the world if a game engine isn't set up properly on client side. I suppose you can also blame the developer if a certain feature like raw input isn't supported in this time and day, though It's quite iffy with lcds and input latency to determine whats "better"


----------



## Conspiracy

G500 it is then

ill pick it up this weekend once i deposit my recent check


----------



## EekTheCat

1. What's your grip style?
If I tend to rest my wrist on the pad/table, lift the mouse by my thumb and ring finger, and click by pressing the tip of my fingers, not using my nails, that makes me a fingertip grip, right?

2. What's your sensitivity?
High, I guess. High DPI is preferrred over lower one. Cmiiw.

3. What's your maximum budget?
~$50.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, 2 thumb buttons will be enough.

5. What games do you play?
I rarely game. Last game I played was D3 before it got repetitive, which was quickly.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. No prediction if possible.

7. Other relevant information:
Want a right-hand shape, light weight, non-wireless, durable switches, driverless, no need for onboard memory.

Well, I'm not looking for a new mouse. I just need some input in case I have to get one soon. I've been through the usual threads but am still not clear on what I'm looking for so I thought I might as well ask here.

I currently use a Diamondback 3G (still working well after 4+ years of use; I guess I don't rage-click my mouses) and a Powerlogic Alien G9 on another desktop. I like the DB3G because it's light; what a fingertip gripper wants, right? But DB3G is discontinued. The Alien G9 is a bit heavier but has that curved sides that help for when handling the mouse. I'm not a big fan of the lights on both mouses.
I also own a Deathadder but it causes my ring/pinky finger such fatigue in short usage (around half-hour) that I relegated it as a backup. I believe it's a combination of its shape and weight. To me, DA is not for fingertip, more like for claw/palm grip. I bought it based on the reviews. Teaches me to look for comfort first, spec second.
I recently sold an Abyssus that I also like if not for its lack of thumb buttons. My brothers are using my old reliable MX510 and MX518 but while I like their shapes, they're a bit too heavy for me. I'm that weak.









Now, is there a perfect mouse for me? A lightweight, ergonomic fingertip-specific mouse with good sensor/microswitches? I was looking at the CM Spawn but it's out of stock. Logi G400 is available, but not sure if its much lighter than the MX500s.
Any input is appreciated.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EekTheCat*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> If I tend to rest my wrist on the pad/table, lift the mouse by my thumb and ring finger, and click by pressing the tip of my fingers, not using my nails, that makes me a fingertip grip, right?
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> High, I guess. High DPI is preferrred over lower one. Cmiiw.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> ~$50.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, 2 thumb buttons will be enough.
> 5. What games do you play?
> I rarely game. Last game I played was D3 before it got repetitive, which was quickly.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. No prediction if possible.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Want a right-hand shape, light weight, non-wireless, durable switches, driverless, no need for onboard memory.
> Well, I'm not looking for a new mouse. I just need some input in case I have to get one soon. I've been through the usual threads but am still not clear on what I'm looking for so I thought I might as well ask here.
> I currently use a Diamondback 3G (still working well after 4+ years of use; I guess I don't rage-click my mouses) and a Powerlogic Alien G9 on another desktop. I like the DB3G because it's light; what a fingertip gripper wants, right? But DB3G is discontinued. The Alien G9 is a bit heavier but has that curved sides that help for when handling the mouse. I'm not a big fan of the lights on both mouses.
> I also own a Deathadder but it causes my ring/pinky finger such fatigue in short usage (around half-hour) that I relegated it as a backup. I believe it's a combination of its shape and weight. To me, DA is not for fingertip, more like for claw/palm grip. I bought it based on the reviews. Teaches me to look for comfort first, spec second.
> I recently sold an Abyssus that I also like if not for its lack of thumb buttons. My brothers are using my old reliable MX510 and MX518 but while I like their shapes, they're a bit too heavy for me. I'm that weak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, is there a perfect mouse for me? A lightweight, ergonomic fingertip-specific mouse with good sensor/microswitches? I was looking at the CM Spawn but it's out of stock. Logi G400 is available, but not sure if its much lighter than the MX500s.
> Any input is appreciated.


the Roccat Savu is lighter than the G400 by 15 grams.


----------



## mohit9206

just recently got myself a mice from sensor for $6 with usb interface, 1600 dpi, dpi adjustment button, ranging from 800 to 2400 dpi, galvanized mouse wheel, laser technology optical mouse.. cool...


----------



## Conspiracy

welp. going to microcenter today to test out the G400 and the Deathadder black edition to see which one i like.


----------



## Hot Fuzz

1. What's your grip style?
Palm Grip but I slightly raise my index and middle finger (half way between palm and claw grip).

2. What's your sensitivity?
Around 1500 - 2000 DPI (currently using 1800 DPI).

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under $100 AU

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons is all I 'really' need, but any extra are always welcome.

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends (majority), Guild Wars 2, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Battlefield 3 and a lot of RPGs.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I've only owned one gaming mouse (CM Storm Sentinel Advance I) and I don't know the 'feeling' of prediction. I have no clue of the CM Storm has prediction but if it does then I don't know the difference. I guess I would prefer to have a lower/off prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I want it to feel like an 'upgrade' over my CM Storm Sentinel Advance. My CM Storm Sentinel Advance has served me well but I think I can get a better mouse that will improve my gaming considerably. Want to be more accurate with my clicking and I think a better mouse can give me that (the sensor on the CM Storm Sentinel is average at best). My hands are fairly small but the size and weight of the mouse (unless its really heavy) doesn't concern me as the CM Storm Sentinel is a fairly decent sized mouse and fits my hand just fine. I currently using a CM Storm Cloth Mouse Pad but I may replace it if need be.

I been looking at the:
- Deathadder 3.5G BE
- Roccat Kone/Savu
- Logitech G400

Just because they seem like the overall best 'mouse' currently on the market for what I am playing. However, please recommend anything else! Thank you.


----------



## 161029

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* No idea whatsoever (using a Logitech Click! Optical Mouse so I can't punch in specific numbers for DPI)
*What's your maximum budget?* $50?
*Do you want additional buttons?* Would be nice but not necessary.
*What games do you play?* Getting into TF2 to see if I like fps. Other than that, some casual and indie games.
*Do you mind about prediction?* Not really.
*Other relevant information: Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Matte finish, optical, good switches (which would probably mean Omron. I can always solder on Omron switches by myself too), acceptable LOD (I barely life my mouse; around 2mm but 2-5mm LOD should be good enough for me).

I've been looking at the following thread.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1314748/looking-for-the-mouse

Considering the DeathAdder Black Edition, G400, Zowie AM, Roccat Savu, and CM Storm Spawn (looks sort of awkward in shape though).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* No idea whatsoever (using a Logitech Click! Optical Mouse so I can't punch in specific numbers for DPI)
> *What's your maximum budget?* $50?
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Would be nice but not necessary.
> *What games do you play?* Getting into TF2 to see if I like fps. Other than that, some casual and indie games.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Not really.
> *Other relevant information: Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Matte finish, optical, good switches (which would probably mean Omron. I can always solder on Omron switches by myself too), acceptable LOD (I barely life my mouse; around 2mm but 2-5mm LOD should be good enough for me).
> I've been looking at the following thread.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1314748/looking-for-the-mouse
> Considering the DeathAdder Black Edition, G400, Zowie AM, Roccat Savu, and CM Storm Spawn (looks sort of awkward in shape though).


The Savu is probably best for fingertip.


----------



## mohit9206

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Savu is probably best for fingertip.


i dont understand why you guys spend so much money on gaming keyboards and gaming mice.. even a standard keyboard mice combination is sufficeient for gaming purposes.. $100 for a mice ? really ?


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> i dont understand why you guys spend so much money on gaming keyboards and gaming mice.. even a standard keyboard mice combination is sufficeient for gaming purposes.. $100 for a mice ? really ?


A standard keyboard will in most cases do fine, but a standard mouse is NOT sufficient and it will hold you back from reaching your potential


----------



## NightVision

I'm looking for a mouse with the following features:

- Small.
- Simple, not covered in macro buttons.
- Good build quality.
- Very firm audible clicks/buttons and scroll wheel.

I had a razor Diamondback and I liked the feel but the buttons were way too soft and wore out fairly quickly. I like buttons that feel/sound like you broke something every time you press them. Really _clicky_.

Part of me thinks I should just buy a basic logitech mouse and that "gaming" mice are more gimmick than function but I'm not sure. The sensor on the Diamondback was very nice but I have an angry raging caveman mouse grip and I don't like the soft buttons on most gaming mice.

So...

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip/claw. My palm doesn't touch at all.

*What's your sensitivity?* I will check on this and edit the answer in a moment... edit: 800-1000 dpi

*What's your maximum budget?* $50 should be enough since I don't want an MMO mouse covered in buttons and leds.

*Do you want additional buttons?* No.

*What games do you play?* This will primarily be for audio editing and coding but I play FPS and RTS games occasionally (so I like speed and lightness more than gimmick features, which just get in my way).

*Do you mind about prediction?* Not sure.
.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightVision*
> 
> I'm looking for a mouse with the following features:
> - Small.
> - Minimal buttons, especially no "macro" side buttons.
> - Good build quality.
> - Very firm audible clicks/buttons and scroll wheel.
> I had a razor Diamondback and I liked the feel but the buttons were way too soft and wore out fairly quickly. I like buttons that feel/sound like you broke something every time you press them. Really _clicky_.
> Part of me thinks I should just buy a basic logitech mouse and that "gaming" mice are more gimmick than function but I'm not sure. The sensor on the Diamondback was very nice but I have an angry raging caveman mouse grip and I don't like the soft buttons on most gaming mice.
> So...
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip.
> *What's your sensitivity?* I will check on this and edit the answer in a moment... edit: 800-1000 dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?* $50 should be enough since I don't want an MMO mouse covered in buttons and leds.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* No.
> *What games do you play?* This will primarily be for audio editing and coding but I play FPS and RTS games occasionally (so I like speed and lightness more than macro buttons).
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Not sure.
> .


Really clicky? Zowie AM should do if you don't feel its too large. It feels about the same size as the diamondback though and it even have a VERY similar sensor.You can only choose between 450-1150-2300dpi though, so I don't know if you can live with that.

The zowie mico would be another option if you want a really small size, it have 800dpi and no side buttons. It have a jump bug though that happen sometimes. I don't know if the "really clicky" thing is the most important thing to you, but if its not there is more options.

But just so you know, gaming mice are usually not a gimmick. They have much better sensors that will give you an advantage over a standard logitech mouse.


----------



## NightVision

I really like the look of the g9x (it looks high end without being goofy/excessive) but the stuff about laser acceleration and the offset sensor have me hesitating.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightVision*
> 
> I really like the look of the g9x (it looks high end without being goofy/excessive) but the stuff about laser acceleration and the offset sensor have me hesitating.


The offset sensor is something you can easily get used to, but the inconsitent acceleration can be a bit annoying in the g9x. Newer mice using the same sensor seems to perform better on cloth though, with very little acceleration that only a few will notice.


----------



## NightVision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> Really clicky? Zowie AM should do if you don't feel its too large. It feels about the same size as the diamondback though and it even have a VERY similar sensor.You can only choose between 450-1150-2300dpi though, so I don't know if you can live with that.
> The zowie mico would be another option if you want a really small size, it have 800dpi and no side buttons. It have a jump bug though that happen sometimes. I don't know if the "really clicky" thing is the most important thing to you, but if its not there is more options.
> But just so you know, gaming mice are usually not a gimmick. They have much better sensors that will give you an advantage over a standard logitech mouse.


I could probably live with 1150 dpi.

Just as you posted this I stumbled upon the Zowie Mico. It looks good. So Zowie generally has firmer buttons than other brands?what about the SS Kinzu?


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightVision*
> 
> I could probably live with 1150 dpi.
> Just as you posted this I stumbled upon the Zowie Mico. It looks good. So Zowie generally has firmer buttons than other brands?what about the SS Kinzu?


Because they use their own custom made huano switches, the kinzu use mushy switches with little audible feedback


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Savu is probably best for fingertip.


How about the others?

I'm not really that concerned about shape because this Logitech Click! Optical Mouse is designed for palm (I think) and I use a fingertip grip on it. I'm mostly looking for performance and quality.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> i dont understand why you guys spend so much money on gaming keyboards and gaming mice.. even a standard keyboard mice combination is sufficeient for gaming purposes.. $100 for a mice ? really ?


We don't spend $100 for a mice. We spend $50. That price is negligible when you've seen the computers we've built around here.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> A standard keyboard will in most cases do fine, but a standard mouse is NOT sufficient and it will hold you back from reaching your potential


Well, the keyboard part is subjective. I'm a typist and I always race against people (got 134wpm on a rubber done. I still need to get used to my Filco TKL with MX Blues and I'm curious to see how I would do with Topre) so a good keyboard makes a huge difference.


----------



## Tacoboy

My current Logitech MX1000 rechargeable mouse does not want to recharge any more, so looking of a new mouse.
I'm giving up on using mice with recharging stands
But still want something hopefully as close to the same shape as the MX100
Those mice that come with 2 AA batteries, how long can they normally last before you need to replace the batteries?
If I use rechargeable AA batteries, which brands last the longest?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> i dont understand why you guys spend so much money on gaming keyboards and gaming mice.. even a standard keyboard mice combination is sufficeient for gaming purposes.. $100 for a mice ? really ?


I spent $60 on a keyboard because I type a lot and it is much more comfortable to type on than a standard $10 keyboard. I spent $40 on a mouse because it tracks with no jitter or acceleration built in, and can track at 800-1600 DPI, unlike most cheap mice. Another reason a good mouse like the Logitech G400 is better is that it is well designed, so it is very comfortable if you want to palm or claw grip it.
Quote:


> How about the others?
> 
> I'm not really that concerned about shape because this Logitech Click! Optical Mouse is designed for palm (I think) and I use a fingertip grip on it. I'm mostly looking for performance and quality.


The G400 is uncomfortable to finger tip grip
The Deathadder is comfortable to fingertip grip, but you have to hold it too far forward of the centre of gravity, which causes it to fishtail a bit.
The Zowie AM looks comfortable to finger tip grip.
I think the Zowie EC Evo series also would be comfortable for finger tip gripping.
No idea on the CM storm spawn; it just looks uncomfortable.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Well, the keyboard part is subjective. I'm a typist and I always race against people (got 134wpm on a rubber done. I still need to get used to my Filco TKL with MX Blues and I'm curious to see how I would do with Topre) so a good keyboard makes a huge difference.


That's why i said in most cases

I assumed he was talking about gaming, and in most games a standard keyboard will do just fine. But I have owned both topre and a filco keyboard and they definately help me both in typing and games, but mice is still a lot more important in terms of gaming


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> That's why i said in most cases
> I assumed he was talking about gaming, and in most games a standard keyboard will do just fine. But I have owned both topre and a filco keyboard and they definately help me both in typing and games


I missed that part. Sorry.

I wish I could afford a Topre though. I could only try it for a few minutes when I was in Japan at Akihabara (yes, the legendary Akihabara Electric City). I tried the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, Blacks, and Reds right before (crappy idea because it made the Topres feel ridiculously mushy) so at first I didn't like the mushiness of Topre, but I'm used to the feel of rubber (which actually feels ridiculously nice on Topres. The mushy feel gives a soft landing so it doesn't have the loud sound like when you bottom out on Cherry MX) and I type faster with it. Topres felt really smooth too.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> it doesn't have the loud sound like when you bottom out on Cherry MX


You can get O rings to stop that from happening.


----------



## Sheira

Is Sensei anything like Xai? I loved Xai, but Deathadder I am using now is much more comfortable IMHO.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheira*
> 
> Is Sensei anything like Xai? I loved Xai, but Deathadder I am using now is much more comfortable IMHO.


Same sensor AFAIK.


----------



## Skylit

Sensei has modified ee and better micro controller, The rest is quite similar from an internal aspect.

I prefer the Xai coating on the outside.


----------



## Sheira

Man, I wish Steelseries would stop making ambidextrous mice.

Think I am just gonna stick to DeathAdder BE.


----------



## Phos

Well the DA has a better sensor anyway, so...

Anyway,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I spent $60 on a keyboard because I type a lot and it is much more comfortable to type on than a standard $10 keyboard. I spent $40 on a mouse because it tracks with no jitter or acceleration built in, and can track at 800-1600 DPI, unlike most cheap mice. Another reason a good mouse like the Logitech G400 is better is that it is well designed, so it is very comfortable if you want to palm or claw grip it.
> The G400 is uncomfortable to finger tip grip
> The Deathadder is comfortable to fingertip grip, but you have to hold it too far forward of the centre of gravity, which causes it to fishtail a bit.
> The Zowie AM looks comfortable to finger tip grip.
> I think the Zowie EC Evo series also would be comfortable for finger tip gripping.
> No idea on the CM storm spawn; it just looks uncomfortable.


The EC wasn't great to fingertip for me. I find the G400 to be just fine to fingertip. Palming it doesn't seem like the way to go with it, really, because of the ridge behind the thumb cutout makes it want to angle. I really should try filing down the sides a bit in a few places, anyone know how deep can I go without breaking through?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> Well the DA has a better sensor anyway, so...
> Anyway,
> The EC wasn't great to fingertip for me. I find the G400 to be just fine to fingertip. Palming it doesn't seem like the way to go with it, really, because of the ridge behind the thumb cutout makes it want to angle. I really should try filing down the sides a bit in a few places, anyone know how deep can I go without breaking through?


I've heard a lot of people saying the EC is comfortable to fingertip grip.
Personally, I have found the G400 to be the most easily controlled when palm gripping, though, I can't really aim well with palm grip. I use claw grip on it, and it works perfectly, except for the ridge on the right side.


----------



## kuhla

Since I have been feeling so indecisive about some of the stuff I have looked at lately, might as well post in this thread.

1. What's your grip style?
100% claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I keep my current mouse around 1000 dpi. Occasionally I switch to 2000 dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$75 (before tax, ship) is absolute max but would prefer something a bit cheaper. I don't really see the point in mice over that price considering what can all be found for $70 and cheaper.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two left side buttons minimum. I'm ok with more but no MMO mouse.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, MMO, RPG, everything pretty equally.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably not but I know I've gotten used to mice who have had it in the past so I'll leave this open.

7. Other relevant information:
Right handed or ambi is fine.
Wired.
Since I like to claw, big mice have generally been kind of uncomfortable to me in the past even though I don't have small hands.
Do not recommend a Razer mouse. I will never buy anything from them again. That brand is dead to me.
Current mousepad: noidpad evolution
See below for more info that may be relevant.....

8. Current mice I have shopped and reasons why:

Zowie Gear EC2 eVo = Very "standard" looking setup. No bull****. Not sure though. Saw some people talk about build quality being suspect?

Cooler Master Storm Spawn = Shape looks good. Sounds like firmware is a mixed bag. Most people seem to say with the right firmware performance is fine?

Cooler Master Recon = Seems like an evolution of the above for the most part. Worried about the shape being too ergo curved. Wondering if the sides are vertical enough for a good claw grip.

Steelseries Sensei Raw = Seems decent enough. Near the limit of my budget.

Roccat Savu = I've seen a few posts here say that this mouse has a very good hardware setup; high tracking speed, etc. Shape looks ok-ish. Left side buttons look strangely placed on the "corner" as opposed to the side? Near the limit of my budget.

9. Gaming Mouse Ownership History:
Razer Boomslang 2000, Razer Viper, Razer Copperhead, Razer Deathadder (3 of the early models), Razer Lachesis.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuhla*
> 
> Since I have been feeling so indecisive about some of the stuff I have looked at lately, might as well post in this thread.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 100% claw.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I keep my current mouse around 1000 dpi. Occasionally I switch to 2000 dpi.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $75 (before tax, ship) is absolute max but would prefer something a bit cheaper. I don't really see the point in mice over that price considering what can all be found for $70 and cheaper.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two left side buttons minimum. I'm ok with more but no MMO mouse.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, MMO, RPG, everything pretty equally.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably not but I know I've gotten used to mice who have had it in the past so I'll leave this open.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Right handed or ambi is fine.
> Wired.
> Since I like to claw, big mice have generally been kind of uncomfortable to me in the past even though I don't have small hands.
> Do not recommend a Razer mouse. I will never buy anything from them again. That brand is dead to me.
> Current mousepad: noidpad evolution
> See below for more info that may be relevant.....
> 8. Current mice I have shopped and reasons why:
> Zowie Gear EC2 eVo = Very "standard" looking setup. No bull****. Not sure though. Saw some people talk about build quality being suspect?
> Cooler Master Storm Spawn = Shape looks good. Sounds like firmware is a mixed bag. Most people seem to say with the right firmware performance is fine?
> Cooler Master Recon = Seems like an evolution of the above for the most part. Worried about the shape being too ergo curved. Wondering if the sides are vertical enough for a good claw grip.
> Steelseries Sensei Raw = Seems decent enough. Near the limit of my budget.
> Roccat Savu = I've seen a few posts here say that this mouse has a very good hardware setup; high tracking speed, etc. Shape looks ok-ish. Left side buttons look strangely placed on the "corner" as opposed to the side? Near the limit of my budget.
> 9. Gaming Mouse Ownership History:
> Razer Boomslang 2000, Razer Viper, Razer Copperhead, Razer Deathadder (3 of the early models), Razer Lachesis.


Look at the Logitech G400 as well; it's a good mouse. It's great for palm and claw grip
The Savu is only for fingertip grip, according to the reviews I have read.
If you liked the Deathadder's sensor, look at the EC Evo and the G400.
If you want to avoid acceleration entirely, don't go for the sensai or any mouse with that sensor.


----------



## kuhla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Look at the Logitech G400 as well; it's a good mouse. It's great for palm and claw grip
> The Savu is only for fingertip grip, according to the reviews I have read.
> If you liked the Deathadder's sensor, look at the EC Evo and the G400.
> If you want to avoid acceleration entirely, don't go for the sensai or any mouse with that sensor.


I appreciate the suggestions. Some questions: Isn't the G400 predominantly a palm grip design? ....being largish and sculpted? Even if it is "claw-able" I would wonder if it is kind of stretch to do it.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuhla*
> 
> I appreciate the suggestions. Some questions: Isn't the G400 predominantly a palm grip design? ....being largish and sculpted? Even if it is "claw-able" I would wonder if it is kind of stretch to do it.


In my experience, both G400 and Savu are "claw-able". Actually I prefer claw and clawpaw to the "supposed" grips on both of them,


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuhla*
> 
> I appreciate the suggestions. Some questions: Isn't the G400 predominantly a palm grip design? ....being largish and sculpted? Even if it is "claw-able" I would wonder if it is kind of stretch to do it.


The G400 isn't large, my fingers extend past the buttons when I palm grip it; I'd actaully like a G400 that was a bout 10-20% larger. The only problem with a claw grip is that the ridge on the right side may be a little uncomfortable.


----------



## Denzo

Hey folks, im in need of a new mouse.

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm grip, really like to rest my hand entirely on the mouse.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Between 2000 and 4000 DPI i believe butvery depending on mood and energy. Can switch from big fast movments on the mousepad to high sens small movements.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

As long as its worth it, im ok with it

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS, Mostly BF3. Also some music production.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I do mind it and dont want it

*7. Other relevant information:*

I used to be a sucker for Razer, but they never really fit me or my playstyle. Last Razer i had was the Lachesis. OK fit in my hand, but after some minutes of immersive gaming, i found my finger tips to have "slid" beyond the two main buttons and me gripping the mouse between the back of my palm and the first joint of my index and middle finger.
Wired, medium to heavy weight. Would be nice to see the mouse in a dark room but no requirement. Good ergonomics, right handed.

Genius thread! thanks for helping.


----------



## mohit9206

hey guys a good mice is indeed more important in gaming than a cheapo one but a standard keyboard is sufficient though..
can you look at this place and tell me which mice represents the best value for money .. should not be too expensive.. i primarily want to use it for gaming- all kinds of games.. so a nice responsive and comfortable to grip mice that will last long... thanks
here is the link








http://www.flipkart.com/browse/computers/laptop-accessories/mouse-20218?filter=is_available%3Atrue&ref=e58a3013-3409-426c-af05-482666b76fc1


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Denzo*
> 
> Hey folks, im in need of a new mouse.
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm grip, really like to rest my hand entirely on the mouse.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Between 2000 and 4000 DPI i believe butvery depending on mood and energy. Can switch from big fast movments on the mousepad to high sens small movements.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> As long as its worth it, im ok with it
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes
> *5. What games do you play?*
> FPS, Mostly BF3. Also some music production.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I do mind it and dont want it
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I used to be a sucker for Razer, but they never really fit me or my playstyle. Last Razer i had was the Lachesis. OK fit in my hand, but after some minutes of immersive gaming, i found my finger tips to have "slid" beyond the two main buttons and me gripping the mouse between the back of my palm and the first joint of my index and middle finger.
> Wired, medium to heavy weight. Would be nice to see the mouse in a dark room but no requirement. Good ergonomics, right handed.
> Genius thread! thanks for helping.


The Logitech G400 has been the best palm grip mouse in my experience.


----------



## jellybeans69

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm Grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Depends on game from 800 to 4000

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

100-150$ ,

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes definately needs at least 3+ buttons as long as they're relatively easy clickable (unlike f.e lachesis with if buttons would be on right side of mouse.)

*5. What games do you play?*

MMO's, CS:GO , Dota 2 and others - all around

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Not really sure.

Mice i've used for past few years - MX518 definately been my favorite mouse in last decade. Very comfortable for my hand , size/weight is good. Looking for similar form/size/weight factor but with more additional buttons. Currently looking at Razer Naga Hex as possible upgrade - any other suggestions will be appreciated. A plus would be if mouse feels good on plastic pad as i currently own Steelseries SnS. Logitech G400 has great form factor but i'd appreciate more buttons


----------



## smoker91

1. What's your grip style? - Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity? - 3.4 ingame sensitivity, 6/11 Windows Sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget? - 85USD - 90USD (maximum)

4. Do you want additional buttons? - Doesn't matter

5. What games do you play? - Counter Strike 1.6 only.

6. Do you mind about prediction? No.


----------



## f0rld

1. What's your grip style?
palm grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
30cm/360
3. What's your maximum budget?
60€
4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes and no, they won't bother me
5. What games do you play?
FPS, MOBA, RTS, everything

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want to have prediction
7. Other relevant information:
Full rubber coating is a must, non-braided cord is also a must.


----------



## kuhla

Just in case anyone was curious, I settled on the Roccat Savu and ordered it a few minutes ago. One thing that was weird was the price dropped dramatically in recent days. It was $69.99 when I checked on newegg a few days ago but I bought it for $39.99 today on amazon and newegg has dropped their price by $10 too. The price compared with the fact that I noticed it is a bit lighter than the G400 is what sold it to me. I had forgetten to think about weight and thinking back, there were times in the past where I preferred lighter mice.


----------



## geotang

I've listed below pretty much all the mice that I think are contenders (from the mouse sensor tech thread here) so what I'm looking for is opinions on how close these mice are for what I'm looking for. When it comes to what grip each mouse is good for, I think I need some more opinions because reviews vary pretty largely.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw... I think. As far as I know, the deathadder is a palm mouse but I still claw it. As a reference for size if I palm the DA, my fingertip up to my first knuckle extends over it if I palm it.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't have much experience except with some occasional use of my friend's DA but if I had to put out a number, 3000 is the very highest I can see myself possibly wanting to experiment with.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under 60$ would be preferable like all the mice I have in mind but I'm open for suggestions of other mice that weren't listed on the mouse sensor tech guide.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
A couple would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
Various MMO's and TF2 mainly.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prediction doesn't seem to help consistency wise so no. Are there situations where prediction is good?

7. Other relevant information:
Other than the stuff listed above, the only thing I will possibly make my decision on is how reliable the brand's customer service is.

NO DEATHADDER, I feel like trying something new and I feel like clawing a palm mouse isn't using it like it was designed for anyways.

Other than that, the only two sensors that seem like good choices are the Avago 9500/9800 etc and the Avago 3090/3060 etc

Avago 9500- There's acceleration but I still have my reasons for these mice.
Corsair M60 ($55-$60)- I prefer this mouse most aesthetically. Overall it seems like a good mouse and from what I've read, corsair has good build quality.

Corsair M90 ($50-$55)- The software is crappy but I still think I can make use of this mouse for my mmo's. It is a palm grip from what I've seen though so I'm a bit iffy with that aspect.

Sharkoon Darkglider ($55) - The reviews haven't been superb but then again they also seemed biased. Either way, the reason this mouse is here is because of its size. It's the only one I've listed that is longer than the deathadder.

Avago 3090- Arguably the best sensor out there.
CM Recon ($40)- The quality, sensor, price are all there. I'm just not 100% sure about the grip of this mouse. Other than that, the only thing stopping me from buying this is that I think the M60 is nicer looking









Roccat Savu ($40)- Decently priced but it doesn't really stand out since Roccat seems to have below average build quality. It also apparently has "sandpaper" like grip which doesn't seem too pleasant.

R.A.T. 3 ($60)- I'm curious why they only put opticals in for this mouse rather than the other ones as well. Unfortunately this has none of the customization R.A.T.'s are known for and is on the higher spectrum of price so I probably won't go for this one.

NZXT Avatar ($30) - I just saw this the other day. It's the cheapest mouse by far but it looks kind of weird.

Honestly, the real choice is between the M50, M60 and the Recon but I posted the other mice just in case there are some redeeming qualities I didn't know about them.

Thanks in advance =]


----------



## Phos

The avatar isn't long, it's just really narrow. I wouldn't recommend it. I'm having a hard time telling how you hold a mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geotang*
> 
> I've listed below pretty much all the mice that I think are contenders (from the mouse sensor tech thread here) so what I'm looking for is opinions on how close these mice are for what I'm looking for. When it comes to what grip each mouse is good for, I think I need some more opinions because reviews vary pretty largely.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw... I think. As far as I know, the deathadder is a palm mouse but I still claw it. As a reference for size if I palm the DA, my fingertip up to my first knuckle extends over it if I palm it.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I don't have much experience except with some occasional use of my friend's DA but if I had to put out a number, 3000 is the very highest I can see myself possibly wanting to experiment with.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Under 60$ would be preferable like all the mice I have in mind but I'm open for suggestions of other mice that weren't listed on the mouse sensor tech guide.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> A couple would be nice.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Various MMO's and TF2 mainly.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prediction doesn't seem to help consistency wise so no. Are there situations where prediction is good?
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Other than the stuff listed above, the only thing I will possibly make my decision on is how reliable the brand's customer service is.
> NO DEATHADDER, I feel like trying something new and I feel like clawing a palm mouse isn't using it like it was designed for anyways.
> Other than that, the only two sensors that seem like good choices are the Avago 9500/9800 etc and the Avago 3090/3060 etc
> Avago 9500- There's acceleration but I still have my reasons for these mice.
> Corsair M60 ($55-$60)- I prefer this mouse most aesthetically. Overall it seems like a good mouse and from what I've read, corsair has good build quality.
> Corsair M90 ($50-$55)- The software is crappy but I still think I can make use of this mouse for my mmo's. It is a palm grip from what I've seen though so I'm a bit iffy with that aspect.
> Sharkoon Darkglider ($55) - The reviews haven't been superb but then again they also seemed biased. Either way, the reason this mouse is here is because of its size. It's the only one I've listed that is longer than the deathadder.
> Avago 3090- Arguably the best sensor out there.
> CM Recon ($40)- The quality, sensor, price are all there. I'm just not 100% sure about the grip of this mouse. Other than that, the only thing stopping me from buying this is that I think the M60 is nicer looking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roccat Savu ($40)- Decently priced but it doesn't really stand out since Roccat seems to have below average build quality. It also apparently has "sandpaper" like grip which doesn't seem too pleasant.
> R.A.T. 3 ($60)- I'm curious why they only put opticals in for this mouse rather than the other ones as well. Unfortunately this has none of the customization R.A.T.'s are known for and is on the higher spectrum of price so I probably won't go for this one.
> NZXT Avatar ($30) - I just saw this the other day. It's the cheapest mouse by far but it looks kind of weird.
> Honestly, the real choice is between the M50, M60 and the Recon but I posted the other mice just in case there are some redeeming qualities I didn't know about them.
> Thanks in advance =]


I'd recommend the G400, it uses the Avango 3095, which is pretty much the same as the 3090.
The only Avango 3090 mice without prediction that I know of are:
G400 (designed for palm grip, but it's good for claw as well)
Deathadder (nope)
Abyssus
CM storm spawn (I've heard it has some tracking problems with new firmware and at its lowest DPI setting)
Zowie EC Evo
Zowie AM
RAT 3 (probably too small to claw grip)
Savu (I've heard it's uncomfortable to claw grip)
Puretrack valor (I've heard it has problems)

my thoughts on some mice for the 9500 sensor:
M60 & M90: heavier than they should be.
Darkglider: also heavier than it should be. It comes with ceramic and teflon skates, which is always good.
G500: Like the G400 but had a bit better build quality
G9x: I've heard good things about it
Sensei: I've also heard good things about this one


----------



## nlmiller0015

frimeware 61 on the spawn fixed the 800 dpi tracking problem


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Savu (I've heard it's uncomfortable to claw grip)


Claw is a viable grip for Savu







no discomfort so far clawing and pawing it


----------



## therecorder

Not a gamer, but perhaps this mouse, if the small amount of prediction has been removed with the firmware upgrade:

http://www.ttesports.com/products/product.aspx?p=25&g=ftr

The size is incorrectly listed... It's almost 124 mm long.


----------



## FlashFir

*1. What's your grip style?*
85% finger
15% claw

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I like 3inches/360 or something like that. I'm nuts. I play with 1800dpi, valve games console --> sensitivity 3








Main reason I don't use Salmosa is I'd like a mouse that

Doesn't squeak
Has more than the 3 standard buttons (at least 4 buttons please!)
Small hands (I'm asian)

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$60?

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
1 extra please. OR if it's a good mouse, 3 buttons is fine but it better compensate for lack of buttons with the rest of it being really worth it!

*5. What games do you play?*
TF2 (6s competitive, scout, scatter gun aiming important)
Dota 2

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Uh... Does the Tron and Salmosa have prediction? Been using both of them for ages.
*What should I get, no prediction or prediction if I have been using it for the last 5 years?*

*7. Other relevant information:*
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


I have asian/small hands, so _I believe [/I [not sure] this translates to a rather flat mouse. Anything more "round-y shaped", like a deathadder my hand just doesn't feel used to it. (probably since I've used salmosa & tron)

I use fingertip grip and sometimes when I snipe I find myself flexing my thumb&pinky muscles together to squeeze the bottom of the mouse for more stability when twitch aiming (_this is the reason why I state 15% of the time I use a claw grip)

What should I look for in a mouse? Sensor? Tell me more about basics of sensors please









Thanks a lot in advance!

P.S.
I do use a steelseries mouse pad which I can ditch...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 85% finger
> 15% claw
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I like 3inches/360 or something like that. I'm nuts. I play with 1800dpi, valve games console --> sensitivity 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Main reason I don't use Salmosa is I'd like a mouse that
> 
> Doesn't squeak
> Has more than the 3 standard buttons (at least 4 buttons please!)
> Small hands (I'm asian)
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $60?
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 1 extra please. OR if it's a good mouse, 3 buttons is fine but it better compensate for lack of buttons with the rest of it being really worth it!
> *5. What games do you play?*
> TF2 (6s competitive, scout, scatter gun aiming important)
> Dota 2
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Uh... Does the Tron and Salmosa have prediction? Been using both of them for ages.
> *What should I get, no prediction or prediction if I have been using it for the last 5 years?*
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> I have asian/small hands, so _I believe [/I [not sure] this translates to a rather flat mouse. Anything more "round-y shaped", like a deathadder my hand just doesn't feel used to it. (probably since I've used salmosa & tron)
> I use fingertip grip and sometimes when I snipe I find myself flexing my thumb&pinky muscles together to squeeze the bottom of the mouse for more stability when twitch aiming (_this is the reason why I state 15% of the time I use a claw grip)
> 
> What should I look for in a mouse? Sensor? Tell me more about basics of sensors please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance!


For mouse sensors:
http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/mouse-sensor-technology-guide-v2-0

I personally prefer the DIP-20 optical sensor, as it has very good tracking on cloth surfaces and no acceleration. It has prediction on many mice.
If you don't mind acceleration or like high sensitivities, the DIP-16 sensor would work, as well.
The Phillips twin eye sensor is very good if you use hard surfaces; it has problems on some cloth mouse pads.

The Zowie AM sounds good for smaller hands.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 85% finger
> 15% claw
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I like 3inches/360 or something like that. I'm nuts. I play with 1800dpi, valve games console --> sensitivity 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Main reason I don't use Salmosa is I'd like a mouse that
> 
> Doesn't squeak...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For mouse sensors:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/mouse-sensor-technology-guide-v2-0
> 
> I personally prefer the DIP-20 optical sensor, as it has very good tracking on cloth surfaces and no acceleration. It has prediction on many mice.
> If you don't mind acceleration or like high sensitivities, the DIP-16 sensor would work, as well.
> The Phillips twin eye sensor is very good if you use hard surfaces; it has problems on some cloth mouse pads.
> 
> The Zowie AM sounds good for smaller hands.
Click to expand...

I use a steelseries mousepad... and there's always nasty black gunk before I used it... so I'd prefer hard surfaces. BUT if the mouse is a fit, I take it!
"it has prediction on many mice" that doesn't make sense with your prior sentence saying... wait. what's prediction vs acceleration? i am evidently not knowledgeable.

I *DO* mind acceleration because Point A to Point B consistency is insanely important for FPS games. So I'll look into the DIP-20, after I find out what prediction (thought it was acceleration)

Although you recommended the Zowie, this review makes me think otherwise: (amazon review)
Quote:


> If you don't move your mouse very fast, lift it up very often, or use lowish cpi settings, this is not the mouse for you. There are better mice for you, many at lower prices.
> This mouse is for those who physically move their mouse far and fast, the people who make good use of really large mouse pads.


G400?
This guy is like me and he liked it
http://www.overclock.net/t/1287249/g400-ok-for-fingertip-grip/0_100#post_17904380


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> I use a steelseries mousepad... and there's always nasty black gunk before I used it... so I'd prefer hard surfaces. BUT if the mouse is a fit, I take it!
> "it has prediction on many mice" that doesn't make sense with your prior sentence saying... wait. what's prediction vs acceleration? i am evidently not knowledgeable.
> I *DO* mind acceleration because Point A to Point B consistency is insanely important for FPS games. So I'll look into the DIP-20, after I find out what prediction (thought it was acceleration)
> Although you recommended the Zowie, this review makes me think otherwise: (amazon review)
> G400?
> This guy is like me and he liked it
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1287249/g400-ok-for-fingertip-grip/0_100#post_17904380


The G400 is my favourite mouse, but it is pretty curvy; if you want a flat mouse, it's probably not the best.

I meant to finish that sentence about prediction, but I got interrupted. I meant to say that it has prediction on many mice, so check the mouse sensor guide to make sure that it has been disabled.

Prediction predicts your mouse movement, so that you can draw lines better and stuff.
Acceleration modifies the speed at which your cursor moves relative to the speed at which your mouse is moving, so when you move your mouse fast with positive acceleration, your cursor will move faster than it would without acceleration.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> I use a steelseries mousepad... and there's always nasty black gunk before I used it... so I'd prefer hard surfaces. BUT if the mouse is a fit, I take it!
> "it has prediction on many mice" that doesn't make sense with your prior sentence saying... wait. what's prediction vs acceleration? i am evidently not knowledgeable.
> I *DO* mind acceleration because Point A to Point B consistency is insanely important for FPS games. So I'll look into the DIP-20, after I find out what prediction (thought it was acceleration)
> Although you recommended the Zowie, this review makes me think otherwise: (amazon review)
> G400?
> This guy is like me and he liked it
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1287249/g400-ok-for-fingertip-grip/0_100#post_17904380
> 
> 
> 
> The G400 is my favourite mouse, but it is pretty curvy; if you want a flat mouse, it's probably not the best.
> 
> I meant to finish that sentence about prediction, but I got interrupted. I meant to say that it has prediction on many mice, so check the mouse sensor guide to make sure that it has been disabled.
> 
> Prediction predicts your mouse movement, so that you can draw lines better and stuff.
> Acceleration modifies the speed at which your cursor moves relative to the speed at which your mouse is moving, so when you move your mouse fast with positive acceleration, your cursor will move faster than it would without acceleration.
Click to expand...

Would you consider the Salmosa flat? I just want something that's curvy BECAUSE its trying to be ergonomic because... frankly I put my hand on a deathadder and I just said no.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Would you consider the Salmosa flat? I just want something that's curvy BECAUSE its trying to be ergonomic because... frankly I put my hand on a deathadder and I just said no.


Then get a G400.


----------



## Phos

The salamosa actually does have angle snapping (commonly referred to as prediction for some reason), Most mice i've used that have had it it's been barely noticeable on.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Would you consider the Salmosa flat? I just want something that's curvy BECAUSE its trying to be ergonomic because... frankly I put my hand on a deathadder and I just said no.
> 
> 
> 
> Then get a G400.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> The salamosa actually does have angle snapping (commonly referred to as prediction for some reason), Most mice i've used that have had it it's been barely noticeable on.


Yea, both mice I've used have prediction. Don't care about it since I've been fine with it. I'd actually argue that it helps aiming since people walk in straight lines on a map (on battlements or a platform, they usually strafe or move towards one end or the other. No jittering like we're in 3dspace haha

Gonna hold off on the G400 recommendation by Art Vanely. I'm reading mixed reviews the more I search and here's a PM, I'm thinking of waiting for BST's or ... finding a zowie even though everyone is trying to dump them... >_>
Quote:


> I have yet to try the zowie. G400 sucks for fingertip, its sort of mutated my grip into a claw/palm over time. It's a long, heavy mouse, but the sensor is flawless at 400 and 800 dpi.
> 
> The Abyssus I had was really good for claw grip actually. The \_/ shape makes it easy to lift, and it's extremely light. Cheap too. Same sensor as Deathadder 3.5g but different firmware (bout 4 m/s perfect control but high liftoff, maybe 3 cd's or 3 1/2). I might switch back to that one if nothing else good comes out before next year. I gutted mine to repair my deathadder which I use at work.
> 
> Wheel mouse optical is the best for fingertip shape and weight wise, but the sensor has neg accel past 1.5m/s which is relatively easy to hit for most competitive low sens fps players. I can use it fine in terms of perfect control, but the switches are not as responsive as omrons, i think they are huano switches.
> 
> Hope this helps, if I come across something better I'll let you know


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Yea, both mice I've used have prediction. Don't care about it since I've been fine with it. I'd actually argue that it helps aiming since people walk in straight lines on a map (on battlements or a platform, they usually strafe or move towards one end or the other. No jittering like we're in 3dspace haha
> Gonna hold off on the G400 recommendation by Art Vandelay. I'm reading mixed reviews the more I search and here's a PM, I'm thinking of waiting for BST's or ... finding a zowie even though everyone is trying to dump them... >_>


I've tried gaming with prediction both on and off, and I honestly can't tell a difference. It make such a small difference when your mouse is tracking properly that it really doesn't matter; it does make a massive difference when your mouse is jittering, though.

The only problem I have found with the G400 is that it has a high LOD and the scroll wheel isn't great; other than that it works perfectly.


----------



## Paradigm84

Can't remember if I have posted in here, but I already have a list of mice to choose from just would like more opinions before I order.

I use a fingertip/ palm hybrid, play at around 4500DPI, my max budget is around £90, I play mostly FPS and I'd prefer at least two buttons on the side but not a crazy amount.

I have a list of:

G9X £49.99
CM Storm Spawn £39.99
M60 £48.35
CM Inferno £35.52
G500 £47.40
Sensei RAW £59.98
Roccat Savu £47.62
Naos 5000 £59.00
Razer Mamba 2012 £99.47
Razer Imperator £59.94
Razer Taipan £74.87

Any ones I should particularly avoid?

Cheers guys.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Can't remember if I have posted in here, but I already have a list of mice to choose from just would like more opinions before I order.
> I use a fingertip/ palm hybrid, play at around 4500DPI, my max budget is around £90, I play mostly FPS and I'd prefer at least two buttons on the side but not a crazy amount.
> I have a list of:
> G9X £49.99
> CM Storm Spawn £39.99
> M60 £48.35
> CM Inferno £35.52
> G500 £47.40
> Sensei RAW £59.98
> Roccat Savu £47.62
> Naos 5000 £59.00
> Razer Mamba 2012 £99.47
> Razer Imperator £59.94
> Razer Taipan £74.87
> Any ones I should particularly avoid?
> Cheers guys.


Why exactly are you using 4500DPI? I can't imagine anyone needing more than 1800 DPI.

I've heard good things about the G9x.
The CM storm spawn only goes up to 3600DPI, and I've heard it has some problems. It should only be used up to 1800 DPI.
The M60 is a bit heavy.
the G500 is awesome; I have a G400, and it has a very comfortable shape, but it's not the easiest to fingertip grip.
I've heard a lot of good things about the Sensei.
The Savu also only goes up to 3600 DPI, and should really only be used up to 1800 DPI. It's a good mouse though
All of the Razer mice you quoted have phillips twin eye sensors, which have trouble on some cloth surfaces, so I'd recommend them only for a hard pad.
The mamba is wireless, and I don't recommend a wireless mouse

I've only used an ADSN 3095, S3888 and PTE sensor, so I can't really comment on how the ADSN 9500/9800 mice will perform.
The PTE sensor mouse I had seemed to track well on hard surfaces, even at very high DPI settings.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Why exactly are you using 4500DPI? I can't imagine anyone needing more than 1800 DPI.
> I've heard good things about the G9x.
> The CM storm spawn only goes up to 3600DPI, and I've heard it has some problems. It should only be used up to 1800 DPI.
> The M60 is a bit heavy.
> the G500 is awesome; I have a G400, and it has a very comfortable shape, but it's not the easiest to fingertip grip.
> I've heard a lot of good things about the Sensei.
> The Savu also only goes up to 3600 DPI, and should really only be used up to 1800 DPI. It's a good mouse though
> All of the Razer mice you quoted have phillips twin eye sensors, which have trouble on some cloth surfaces, so I'd recommend them only for a hard pad.
> The mamba is wireless, and I don't recommend a wireless mouse
> I've only used an ADSN 3095, S3888 and PTE sensor, so I can't really comment on how the ADSN 9500/9800 mice will perform.
> The PTE sensor mouse I had seemed to track well on hard surfaces, even at very high DPI settings.


I just don't like moving my arm around all that much to play a fast paced FPS, at 4500 I only have to move around 1cm to do 360 degrees.









Cheers for the info, I've whittled down the list a bit now. +rep.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Cm storm spawn has 3 native dpi on firmware 61. 800 1600 4000. its a good mouse even with big hands


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I just don't like moving my arm around all that much to play a fast paced FPS, at 4500 I only have to move around 1cm to do 360 degrees.


How are you still able to aim?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How are you still able to aim?


I don't know, I've just got used to it, I might see if I can move up to 5000 soon.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I don't know, I've just got used to it, I might see if I can move up to 5000 soon.


You're going the wrong direction.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You're going the wrong direction.


If someone shoots me in the back, half the time I can spin around and go prone before they can kill me.


----------



## woll3

COD?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> COD?


If I said yes I would be mocked so I'll say no.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> If someone shoots me in the back, half the time I can spin around and go prone before they can kill me.


Now try aiming at something 200 metres away.


----------



## Revolution996

Have big hands, Nice and weighty, if it has to have light effects, then red.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium/High
3. What's your maximum budget?
£70.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
MMO/FPS/RPG - Crysis,Metro 2033,Witcher,Skyrim, etc etc

6. Do you mind about prediction?

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Not fussy.

Revo.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Now try aiming at something 200 metres away.


Actually I do, I use snipers or SMG's most of the time.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Revolution996*
> 
> Have big hands, Nice and weighty, if it has to have light effects, then red.
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium/High
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> £70.00
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMO/FPS/RPG - Crysis,Metro 2033,Witcher,Skyrim, etc etc
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Not fussy.
> Revo.


G400 would be the ideal one, IMO, if you don't want any acceleration.
Zowie mice, and the Roccat Savu are also good. The Deathadder is alright, but I really didn't like the shape.
All of those mice do 1800 DPI max. They can do 3600DPI, but it's terrible.

If you want a higher DPI, look at the:
Logitech G500
Logitech G9x
SS sensei
(all of those have acceleration)

Madcatz RAT 7
(no acceleration, but there is very slight z-axis jitter, and is bad on some cloth surfaces)


----------



## GfhTattoo

Well i got to say the g500 an g9 have a double click problem.
IM looking in a mouse with 3 thumb buttons and mouse tilt
Have not found any yet







still on g500


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GfhTattoo*
> 
> Well i got to say the g500 an g9 have a double click problem.
> IM looking in a mouse with 3 thumb buttons and mouse tilt
> Have not found any yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still on g500


Doesn't logitech have a good RMA service, or have you been using this for more than 3 years (I think that's the warranty length)?


----------



## kotakueuro

1. What's your grip style?
Mainly Claw, but have palmed before.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently using an Orochi and the sensitivity is just both X and Y at 1000.

3. What's your maximum budget?
None.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yea would definitely be nice. Don't necessarily need like 15, but more would be a nice plus.

5. What games do you play?
Mainly LoL, but basically everything from CSGO to DoTA 2 to TF2 to SC2 to GW2 and all the other "non competitive" games like Dishonored, AC3, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't really mind it, but it'd be nice to have option to turn it off. If there's just a tiny bit built into sensor then I can get used to it. Not the best, but playable for me.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Not a big fan of the super high gloss finish like the stuff on the side of the DeathAdder, etc.
Onboard Memory would definitely be a huge plus.
I like lights. Esp multi color lighting. May sound silly but I do like it. It's not a must have but a nice plus.
Mouse History -
DeathAdder, G9X, Orochi (Current Mouse)
Current Pad - Scarab. Probably going to trash this for one of the four new Razer pads when they come out though. Waiting on user reviews.
Looked at -
Mamba 2012. I like it but there have been some scary complaints on quality control so idk.
Corsair M90. Also looks really good. Definitely looks sturdy, can take some beating.
Sensei MLG. I like it, esp the lights







. Heard some complaints about acceleration tho, how severe is it?
Pretty much open to most options at this point so shoot!


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Can't remember if I have posted in here, but I already have a list of mice to choose from just would like more opinions before I order.
> I use a fingertip/ palm hybrid, play at around 4500DPI, my max budget is around £90, I play mostly FPS and I'd prefer at least two buttons on the side but not a crazy amount.
> I have a list of:
> G9X £49.99
> CM Storm Spawn £39.99
> M60 £48.35
> CM Inferno £35.52
> G500 £47.40
> Sensei RAW £59.98
> Roccat Savu £47.62
> Naos 5000 £59.00
> Razer Mamba 2012 £99.47
> Razer Imperator £59.94
> Razer Taipan £74.87
> Any ones I should particularly avoid?
> Cheers guys.


After your questions the other day while the G9x is a good mouse, it is a fairly short mouse. Since you said you have a large palm it may not fit your hand well. Like was said earlier, the shape of the G500 is like that of the 400 which was a good mouse. You already know my stance on the Naos and Razer mice. I like the Sensei's shape personally and it may fit your hand well from what you told me. Wouldn't suggest the CM mice for you and not sure about the Savu or M60.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> After your questions the other day while the G9x is a good mouse, it is a fairly short mouse. Since you said you have a large palm it may not fit your hand well. Like was said earlier, the shape of the G500 is like that of the 400 which was a good mouse. You already know my stance on the Naos and Razer mice. I like the Sensei's shape personally and it may fit your hand well from what you told me. Wouldn't suggest the CM mice for you and not sure about the Savu or M60.


Ok cheers again!









+rep.


----------



## FlashFir

Anyone have any thoughts on the Maurus?

OP's thread here


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on the Maurus?
> OP's thread here


Basically looks like an ambi version of the G9x to me. Probably not a bad pickup for a left handed gamer (who uses claw or fingertip).


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mainly Claw, but have palmed before.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Currently using an Orochi and the sensitivity is just both X and Y at 1000.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> None.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yea would definitely be nice. Don't necessarily need like 15, but more would be a nice plus.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mainly LoL, but basically everything from CSGO to DoTA 2 to TF2 to SC2 to GW2 and all the other "non competitive" games like Dishonored, AC3, etc.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't really mind it, but it'd be nice to have option to turn it off. If there's just a tiny bit built into sensor then I can get used to it. Not the best, but playable for me.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Not a big fan of the super high gloss finish like the stuff on the side of the DeathAdder, etc.
> Onboard Memory would definitely be a huge plus.
> I like lights. Esp multi color lighting. May sound silly but I do like it. It's not a must have but a nice plus.
> Mouse History -
> DeathAdder, G9X, Orochi (Current Mouse)
> Current Pad - Scarab. Probably going to trash this for one of the four new Razer pads when they come out though. Waiting on user reviews.
> Looked at -
> Mamba 2012. I like it but there have been some scary complaints on quality control so idk.
> Corsair M90. Also looks really good. Definitely looks sturdy, can take some beating.
> Sensei MLG. I like it, esp the lights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Heard some complaints about acceleration tho, how severe is it?
> Pretty much open to most options at this point so shoot!


I have the Sensei MLG and it has pretty much become my default mouse for now. As long as you take the time to adjust the settings in the software you shouldn't have acceleration issues. I could see that happening straight out of the box with no adjustments, but just take the time and you'd be find. Mine is a super high gloss finish, which I'm not a huge fan of, but it's bearable. I don't remember if you can get non-gloss finished ones, but if you can find one you'd be set from the sounds of it.

The big thing is every mouse is different, and takes time to get used to. 90% of the people who will complain about an issue only call it an issue because it is different compared to their last mouse. After a few weeks you adjust to the mouse, faster if you changed the settings to where you like them, and it's as if your mouse has been there your whole life.


----------



## Dante003

Anyone here likes the Theron or Saphira mouse? I didnt saw anyone sugesting it here.


----------



## Lompang

Looking for a nice mouse under 50 dollars for palm/claw grip either. Doesn't matter. Don't want any prediction/must have minimal acceleration. I like having an Ambidextrous hold, but ergonomic is fine. Recommend me something else besides the Deathadder/G400/Intellimouse 3.0/1.1 which I've used. Or should I hold out for BST's mouse for a little more?


----------



## ZareliMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crunkles*
> 
> Basically looks like an ambi version of the G9x to me. Probably not a bad pickup for a left handed gamer (who uses claw or fingertip).


Well, the maurus has a different sensor (a huge difference).
Is way cheaper but is not as customizable.
The performance on laser based mice on cloth is subpar, and laser mice have acceleration so the Maurus has superior tracking performance.


----------



## RazorsEdge807

My 2 cents: I love my G500, the only thing I would change is to maybe have a "sniper button" like on the RATT. It's basically a DPI button that only changes to 2 modes (i.e. High/Low) instead of cycling up or down through 5 settings. I find I usually only need to change DPI when sniping. Also I'll give you the fact that the software could be more user friendly bet once you dig in to it there are many useful features. Love my G500/Logitech mice in general but I am curious about those RATT's. Hope this helps anyone.


----------



## omareljindi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RazorsEdge807*
> 
> My 2 cents: I love my G500, the only thing I would change is to maybe have a "sniper button" like on the RATT. It's basically a DPI button that only changes to 2 modes (i.e. High/Low) instead of cycling up or down through 5 settings. I find I usually only need to change DPI when sniping. Also I'll give you the fact that the software could be more user friendly bet once you dig in to it there are many useful features. Love my G500/Logitech mice in general but I am curious about those RATT's. Hope this helps anyone.


AGREE!


----------



## pLuhhmm

I use to have a XAI, loved it, but it died and had a slow death. I then got a Sensei, but then the sensor or something started acting up and it started to glitch and the cursor didn't want to move. It jittered in a small area until I slammed it or moved it around. I returned it and got a G700. Love this mouse as well, but it's hurting my wrist.

*My mouse pad is a QcK+ DotA 2 (cloth). The g700 sensor has no problem.*

1. What's your grip style?

*Palm/claw*. *Prefer a XAI/1.1 shaped mouse.*

2. What's your sensitivity?

*IDK*, *3000 dpi?*

3. What's your maximum budget?

*$80* *- Best Buy only.*

4. Do you want additional buttons?

*Yes, at least two side buttons.*

5. What games do you play?

*DotA 2 and FPS*

6. Do you mind about prediction?

*As long as it doesn't interfere with my aiming.*


----------



## monkeysuit

1. What's your grip style?

Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

Low, 11-12" 360

3. What's your maximum budget?

$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Ideally, but I could live without them.

5. What games do you play?

FPS, primarily TF2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes, I want zero prediction.

7. I currently use a G9x, and it feels great. I just know that it has prediction built in and would like to use something without any.


----------



## Phos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeysuit*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low, 11-12" 360
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Ideally, but I could live without them.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, primarily TF2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I want zero prediction.
> 7. I currently use a G9x, and it feels great. I just know that it has prediction built in and would like to use something without any.


Actually it has acceleration.

I would suggest the CM Spawn because I've heard it's also good for claw gripping.


----------



## Kornowski

1. What's your grip style? - Mainly used two finger style but wouldn't mind trying the claw design.

2. What's your sensitivity? - Not too sure about the exact DPI, but pretty high.

3. What's your maximum budget? - I'd say around £30.

4. Do you want additional buttons? - Yeah, side buttons would be ideal.

5. What games do you play? - Just FPS'.

6. Do you mind about prediction? - I don't even know what this is, haha.

7. Other relevant information? - Must be wireless.

Thanks guys!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeysuit*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low, 11-12" 360
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Ideally, but I could live without them.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, primarily TF2
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I want zero prediction.
> 7. I currently use a G9x, and it feels great. I just know that it has prediction built in and would like to use something without any.


The G9x has acceleration, it was the older Logitech optical mice that had prediction.
If you don't want acceleration, you could go with a deathadder, a G400, a Savu, a Zowie AM, a Zowie EC Evo, or a RAT 3.
The G400 is my current mouse, and it works very well for any grip position, except fingertip, which is a little akward.
Personally, I think the Deathadder is uncomfortable, but that is probably because I have large hands.
I have heard that the Savu is uncomfortable to claw grip unless you have large hands
I have no idea what the Zowie mice are like.
The RAT 3 is good for fingertip grip

There's also the RAT 7, but it is only guaranteed to work on hard surfaces. I remember mine working pretty well up around 4000 DPI.
Quote:


> I would suggest the CM Spawn because I've heard it's also good for claw gripping.


I've heard it has had some problems with jitter.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kornowski*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? - Mainly used two finger style but wouldn't mind trying the claw design.
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - Not too sure about the exact DPI, but pretty high.
> 3. What's your maximum budget? - I'd say around £30.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? - Yeah, side buttons would be ideal.
> 5. What games do you play? - Just FPS'.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? - I don't even know what this is, haha.
> 7. Other relevant information? - Must be wireless.
> Thanks guys!


If you have a game on the source engine, like Gmod or CSS, there is an option labeled _smooth mouse movement_; that is basically prediction, AFAIK. I don't actually notice it at all in game, unlike acceleration.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> The G9x has acceleration


wait, then why is it considered to be one of the best mice for gaming then?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> wait, then why is it considered to be one of the best mice for gaming then?


Because you'll only notice it when you play with low sensitivity, and a lot of gamers like high sensitivities.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Because you'll only notice it when you play with low sensitivity, and a lot of gamers like high sensitivities.


low sensitivity or low DPI?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> low sensitivity or low DPI?


It's based upon how fast you move your mouse.


----------



## Z Overlord

I remember allot of mice were disliked for having a Phillips sensor or some crap. Does the CM Storm have that sensor people don't like? Also, some people saying setting the mouse polling rate to 1000hz is bad because it might not be stable, how do you check if it is stable?


----------



## Step83

What's your grip style? - palm
2. What's your sensitivity? - 800-1600
3. What's your maximum budget? - £50
4. Do you want additional buttons? - two really
5. What games do you play? - BF3, Borderlands, world of tanks
6. Do you mind about prediction? - only if it tells me the lottery numbers








7. Other relevant information - weighty is good


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I remember allot of mice were disliked for having a Phillips sensor or some crap. Does the CM Storm have that sensor people don't like? Also, some people saying setting the mouse polling rate to 1000hz is bad because it might not be stable, how do you check if it is stable?


The CM storm has the same sensor as a deathadder, but it has some issues with the firmware or something.


----------



## Z Overlord

I see, and what about the mouse polling thing?


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The CM storm has the same sensor as a deathadder, but it has some issues with the firmware or something.


not trying to sound rude or anything but how does the deathadder have the same sensor like cm storm spawn when deathadder uses Avago s-3888 and the cm spawn uses avago 3090


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I see, and what about the mouse polling thing?


Setting it to 1000 Hz makes it a little more jittery than 500 Hz, but if you are below 1800 DPI you can't tell the difference in anything except paint.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> not trying to sound rude or anything but how does the deathadder have the same sensor like cm storm spawn when deathadder uses Avago s-3888 and the cm spawn uses avago 3090


It's the same sensor, but the circuit board layout, firmware and drivers are different, and I've heard that some people have had some problems probably relating to the firmware.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Setting it to 1000 Hz makes it a little more jittery than 500 Hz, but if you are below 1800 DPI you can't tell the difference in anything except paint.
> It's the same sensor, but the circuit board layout, firmware and drivers are different, and I've heard that some people have had some problems probably relating to the firmware.


Basic architecture should be the same. Differ by SROM. Everything else is different from mouse to mouse. Drivers aren't a valid differential ^^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The CM storm has the same sensor as a deathadder, but it has some issues with the firmware or something.


CM storm is a brand, not a mouse.

@ Zoverlord.

The brand has switched from PTE to A9800 for the Sentinel mouse. (Sentinel II)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Basic architecture should be the same. Differ by SROM. Everything else is different from mouse to mouse. Drivers aren't a valid differential ^^


Yeah, the drivers probably can't cause jitter, but the firmware definitely can, that's what happened on the early deathadders.

Quote:


> CM storm is a brand, not a mouse.


I meant the CM storm spawn.


----------



## Z Overlord

Does the CM Storm Spawn have any hardware revisions? Like updated ones that fixed flaws or something? if I were to buy a CM Storm Spawn from an online store, how do I know it's the right one?

Also are there any other good mice on the coming out on the horizon? claw grip mice that is


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Also are there any other good mice on the coming out on the horizon? claw grip mice that is


The deathadder 4G is coming out some time in the future. I say get a G400 for claw grip, though.


----------



## Phos

Aside from a rubber grip on the side of the mouse that was already easy to hold I don't see any benefit to the 4G over the current one unless it loses a lot of weight.

And is it just me or has the PTE really fallen off in terms of how many mice use it?


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The deathadder 4G is coming out some time in the future. I say get a G400 for claw grip, though.


why that one? What does it have over the G9x or the CM Storm Spawn?


----------



## Phos

It's pretty much the only mouse on the horizon ATM, at least the only one we've found out about. If you claw grip the spawn is probably the way to go.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> It's pretty much the only mouse on the horizon ATM, at least the only one we've found out about. If you claw grip the spawn is probably the way to go.


Well that, and the Ninox mice that have been cooking and eagerly anticipated for awhile now..


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> Aside from a rubber grip on the side of the mouse that was already easy to hold I don't see any benefit to the 4G over the current one unless it loses a lot of weight.
> And is it just me or has the PTE really fallen off in terms of how many mice use it?


RAT mice, excluding the cheapest one, and the most expensive Razer mice use that sensor, and that's about it.
Quote:


> why that one? What does it have over the G9x or the CM Storm Spawn?


I've heard about some problems with the CM storm spawn firmware that causes jitter, and there were some tracking issues on white surfaces in some of the recent firmware updates.

I don't like the sensor on the G9x, it has acceleration, which bothers me as I use a low sensitivity.

I like the G400 because it is the most comfortable of the good ADSN A3090/S3888 mice.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> RAT mice, excluding the cheapest one, and the most expensive Razer mice use that sensor, and that's about it.
> I've heard about some problems with the CM storm spawn firmware that causes jitter, and there were some tracking issues on white surfaces in some of the recent firmware updates.
> I don't like the sensor on the G9x, it has acceleration, which bothers me as I use a low sensitivity.
> I like the G400 because it is the most comfortable of the good ADSN A3090/S3888 mice.


I use low sensitivity in games, but for DPI I use 1800 (this may lower a little bit in the future)

so it seems the G9x is not the mouse for me.

I really like the CM Storm Spawn's shape, allot like the G9/G9x, but with more pinky rest. The G400 seems ambidextrous as opposed to claw grip


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I use low sensitivity in games, but for DPI I use 1800 (this may lower a little bit in the future)
> so it seems the G9x is not the mouse for me.
> I really like the CM Storm Spawn's shape, allot like the G9/G9x, but with more pinky rest. The G400 seems ambidextrous as opposed to claw grip


The G400 is the furthest thing possible from ambidextrous.
IMO, you should actually see how they feel in your hand before purchasing them.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> IMO, you should actually see how they feel in your hand before purchasing them.


that seems impossible

btw, which has a better sensor, the CM Storm Spawn or the G400? Why is the G9x more expensive than the G400?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> that seems impossible
> btw, which has a better sensor, the CM Storm Spawn or the G400? Why is the G9x more expensive than the G400?


Same sensor, but they have different lenses. I don't think it really matters that much.

Here's a page that has some info on problems with many mice:
http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2024663

You probably don't have to worry about getting a prediction enabled G400 anymore, they are very rare.


----------



## EliteReplay

well im using this one and i have to say it is very good mouse... coming from razer deathadder to this one. steelseries kinzu v2... very good mouse... i had a pain in my fingers by using the DA, and after getting this one all of that desapeared.


----------



## woll3

Your Pic shows a V1, thats a V2.


----------



## Paradigm84

All these mice look so nice, how do you all choose?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Your Pic shows a V1, thats a V2.


well they look the same to me.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> well they look the same to me.


Racist


----------



## Vogs

*1. What's your grip style?*
Somewhere between palm and claw

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I use 1400 dpi at the moment, but willing to scale down

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
80 Euro

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons would be nice for browsing but I can live without

*5. What games do you play?*
Mainly League of Legends

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction

*7. Other relevant information:*
-The sensor is the most important thing to me, it has to be a good sensor.
-At the moment I use a Logitech G5 (updated blue one), I removed the weight cardridge to make it as light as possible. I prefer mice as light as possible. I would not be willing to go heavier than my G5
-I have big hands, small mice seem cool to me in a geeky way but I don't know if it would be practical.
-Wired is a must
-Indifferent about ambidextrous or not.
-I like the rubbery finish on my G5 but I read that if you don't sweat, glossy finish is better? My hands rarely sweat, so maybe glossy is better.
-I use a 1$ crappy cloth mousepad


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vogs*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Somewhere between palm and claw
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I use 1400 dpi at the moment, but willing to scale down
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 80 Euro
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 side buttons would be nice for browsing but I can live without
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Mainly League of Legends
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> -The sensor is the most important thing to me, it has to be a good sensor.
> -At the moment I use a Logitech G5 (updated blue one), I removed the weight cardridge to make it as light as possible. I prefer mice as light as possible. I would not be willing to go heavier than my G5
> -I have big hands, small mice seem cool to me in a geeky way but I don't know if it would be practical.
> -Wired is a must
> -Indifferent about ambidextrous or not.
> -I like the rubbery finish on my G5 but I read that if you don't sweat, glossy finish is better? My hands rarely sweat, so maybe glossy is better.
> -I use a 1$ crappy cloth mousepad


You are quite indifferent to a number of stuff lol, making the spectrum quite wide... any mouse that uses the Avago 3090 sensor and is not too heavy should do for you









Roccat Savu is shaped well for claw grip and large enough for limited palm grip, yet quite light at about 90g. CM Storm Spawn is designed for claw grip. and Recon is good for both claw and some people's palm. If you have larger hands, you might be able to claw G400/Deathadder. All of them is adequate for LoL at 800 or 1600DPI I guess. You could get a QcK for a less crappy mousepad that works very well with optical mice.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vogs*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Somewhere between palm and claw
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I use 1400 dpi at the moment, but willing to scale down
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 80 Euro
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 side buttons would be nice for browsing but I can live without
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Mainly League of Legends
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> -The sensor is the most important thing to me, it has to be a good sensor.
> -At the moment I use a Logitech G5 (updated blue one), I removed the weight cardridge to make it as light as possible. I prefer mice as light as possible. I would not be willing to go heavier than my G5
> -I have big hands, small mice seem cool to me in a geeky way but I don't know if it would be practical.
> -Wired is a must
> -Indifferent about ambidextrous or not.
> -I like the rubbery finish on my G5 but I read that if you don't sweat, glossy finish is better? My hands rarely sweat, so maybe glossy is better.
> -I use a 1$ crappy cloth mousepad


First of all, you should consider atleast getting a cheap steelseries qck mousepad to go with your new mouse. About the mouse its a bit hard to judge if you are more of a palmgrip or clawgrip user, but the most obvious choice would be the logitech g400 since you are already used to the logitech g5 shape. It's slightly heavy for me, but I doubt it weighs more than the g5. The sensor is amazing though but it does seem to perform a little worse on the higher dpi settings

Another option would be the steelseries sensei(great glossy finish on top)/steelseries sensei raw that works well for all kinds of grips and larger hands. The sensor can give up to 5% positive acceleration, but few people notice it and it won't hold you back from performing your best in a game like league of legends. I use it in games that are much more demanding on the sensor and I never ever felt that it was holding me back. Personally I would get the raw version since its lighter

Another option would be the zowie am-gs that have, in my oppionion, the best glossy coating you can get. If you don't sweat a lot you will have a very good grip on the mouse. The drawbacks would be that its a bit smaller than the two other mice mentioned, the sides are shaped more / \ which some people don't like and because of the low lift off distance it can be a little bit picky about the surface


----------



## Vogs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> You are quite indifferent to a number of stuff lol, making the spectrum quite wide... any mouse that uses the Avago 3090 sensor and is not too heavy should do for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roccat Savu is shaped well for claw grip and large enough for limited palm grip, yet quite light at about 90g. CM Storm Spawn is designed for claw grip. and Recon is good for both claw and some people's palm. If you have larger hands, you might be able to claw G400/Deathadder. All of them is adequate for LoL at 800 or 1600DPI I guess. You could get a QcK for a less crappy mousepad that works very well with optical mice.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> First of all, you should consider atleast getting a cheap steelseries qck mousepad to go with your new mouse. About the mouse its a bit hard to judge if you are more of a palmgrip or clawgrip user, but the most obvious choice would be the logitech g400 since you are already used to the logitech g5 shape. It's slightly heavy for me, but I doubt it weighs more than the g5. The sensor is amazing though but it does seem to perform a little worse on the higher dpi settings
> Another option would be the steelseries sensei(great glossy finish on top)/steelseries sensei raw that works well for all kinds of grips and larger hands. The sensor can give up to 5% positive acceleration, but few people notice it and it won't hold you back from performing your best in a game like league of legends. I use it in games that are much more demanding on the sensor and I never ever felt that it was holding me back. Personally I would get the raw version since its lighter
> Another option would be the zowie am-gs that have, in my oppionion, the best glossy coating you can get. If you don't sweat a lot you will have a very good grip on the mouse. The drawbacks would be that its a bit smaller than the two other mice mentioned, the sides are shaped more / \ which some people don't like and because of the low lift off distance it can be a little bit picky about the surface


Sorry for being so ambiguous, here's 2 pictures of how I hold my mouse, I guess it's closer to palm than to claw?



Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into the Savu, Spawn, Recon and G400/Deathadder. Do they only have native 800 or 1600 DPI? Seems like a big step coming from 1400.

Good point on the mousepad, I will order the Qck mousepad. I was personally leaning towards the white Zowie EC1 Evo since it's quite big and yet lighter than my G5, also the sensor is good. The only difference between the AM and EC is the shape right, AM is more like a Logitech and EC more like a deathadder?

Aesthetically I love the steelseries mice, but from what I understand the sensor isn't goo good?


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vogs*
> 
> Sorry for being so ambiguous, here's 2 pictures of how I hold my mouse, I guess it's closer to palm than to claw?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into the Savu, Spawn, Recon and G400/Deathadder. Do they only have native 800 or 1600 DPI? Seems like a big step coming from 1400.
> Good point on the mousepad, I will order the Qck mousepad. I was personally leaning towards the white Zowie EC1 Evo since it's quite big and yet lighter than my G5, also the sensor is good. The only difference between the AM and EC is the shape right, AM is more like a Logitech and EC more like a deathadder?
> Aesthetically I love the steelseries mice, but from what I understand the sensor isn't goo good?


Savu has native dpi steps at 800 and 1600, while G400, Spawn and DA have steps at 800 and 1800. EC1 Evo / AM has step at 1150.

For Sensei, if you are not especially sensitive to up to 5% variation in your mouse movement, then you will be fine with it. Moreover, its sensor allows you to adjust DPI in smaller steps so you can get closer to 1400DPI (i.e. if you are fine with that variation, you can consider other mice that use the same sensor).

edit: Your grip looks like "Claw Paw"







There's a club somewhere around here dedicated to this grip style, but there doesn't seem to be many members







I have a similar grip and I find Savu to be very good for it. My hand is kinda small though (18.5cm)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Savu and G400 have native dpi steps at 800 and 1600, while Spawn and DA have steps at 800 and 1800. EC1 Evo / AM has step at 1150.
> For Sensei, if you are not especially sensitive to up to 5% variation in your mouse movement, then you will be fine with it. Moreover, its sensor allows you to adjust DPI in smaller steps so you can get closer to 1400DPI (i.e. if you are fine with that variation, you can consider other mice that use the same sensor).


I thought the G400 did 400, 800, 1800 and 3600 DPI as it's steps. The 1900 DPI step looks a lot more jittery to me than the 1800 DPI step, which indicates that it is scaling the 3600 DPI step to achieve 1900.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I thought the G400 did 400, 800, 1800 and 3600 DPI as it's steps. The 1900 DPI step looks a lot more jittery to me than the 1800 DPI step, which indicates that it is scaling the 3600 DPI step to achieve 1900.


Sorry, edited, failed to check thoroughly and just made it out from my memory









And doesn't the 1600DPI graph looks like there is some prediction? (It happens with my Savu sometimes as well) - What mousepad are you using?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Sorry, edited, failed to check thoroughly and just made it out from my memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And doesn't the 1600DPI graph looks like there is some prediction? (It happens with my Savu sometimes as well) - What mousepad are you using?


There's no prediction, it's just really hard to draw in paint at that sensitivity.
I'm using an XFX warpad.


----------



## Bentz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Savu has native dpi steps at 800 and 1600, while G400, Spawn and DA have steps at 800 and 1800. EC1 Evo / AM has step at 1150.
> For Sensei, if you are not especially sensitive to up to 5% variation in your mouse movement, then you will be fine with it. Moreover, its sensor allows you to adjust DPI in smaller steps so you can get closer to 1400DPI (i.e. if you are fine with that variation, you can consider other mice that use the same sensor).
> edit: Your grip looks like "Claw Paw"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a club somewhere around here dedicated to this grip style, but there doesn't seem to be many members
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar grip and I find Savu to be very good for it. My hand is kinda small though (18.5cm)


Do you mean fingertip grip? That's what it looks like.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bentz*
> 
> Do you mean fingertip grip? That's what it looks like.


Vogs himself says it is close to palm than claw... I doubt it is fingertip.

Note that his palm is placed against the back of his mouse, his fingers are lifted off the mouse, but the "fingerprint" part of his fingers are touching the mouse buttons in a flat position. Fits the definition of "Clawpaw", which is a variation of claw/palm grip.

The Clawpaw Club


----------



## Vogs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Vogs himself says it is close to palm than claw... I doubt it is fingertip.
> Note that his palm is placed against the back of his mouse, his fingers are lifted off the mouse, but the "fingerprint" part of his fingers are touching the mouse buttons in a flat position. Fits the definition of "Clawpaw", which is a variation of claw/palm grip.
> The Clawpaw Club


Yeah I think I have a 'Clawpaw' grip.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

I already own the Kova+ and love it, and I know these are 3 different price tiers, but out of these 3, which one would be the best?

Kova+, CM Storm Recon or Razer Taipan? I have sort of small hands and I use a palm grip, and I'm mentioning these because I'm a lefty.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> I already own the Kova+ and love it, and I know these are 3 different price tiers, but out of these 3, which one would be the best?
> Kova+, CM Storm Recon or Razer Taipan? I have sort of small hands and I use a palm grip, and I'm mentioning these because I'm a lefty.


The Zowie AM is good for left handed people.
Out of those three, I'd say that the Kova+ is probably the best (it uses an A3090 sensor, right?), but there are better mice out there.


----------



## sipter

1. What's your grip style? Claw grip (I used to use palm grip but then somehow transitioned to claw grip when I moved from DA 1800 to XAI)

2. What's your sensitivity? 1800dpi - Medium sensitivity?

3. What's your maximum budget? Around 75 bucks, can stretch it though if need be.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary, but would be nice to have. (Rarely use them)

5. What games do you play? Counterstrike, Battlefield, a little of COD, and DOTA.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Not sure about this one.

7. Other relevant information: My hands are pretty big.

I would like to give some input (side note) about the problem I just had. A few days ago, I purchased the DA black edition expecting it to work really well for me (Like back when I had the DA 1800). It turns out though that I just realized that because of the XAI, I gradually transitioned into a Claw grip user. After doing more researches, I came up with a conclusion that I will sell the DA black edition and get the cash to buy something else. Sad to be honest, the DA black looks really sexy. However claw grip on the DA just wouldn't cut it for me. I am looking at the CMSTORM Spawn, however any recommendations will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Zowie AM is good for left handed people.
> Out of those three, I'd say that the Kova+ is probably the best (it uses an A3090 sensor, right?), but there are better mice out there.


I think so. Also, that new AM-FG looks damn nice as well.

By the way, love the avatar of bloody 8-Bit Mickey from To Boldly Flee







.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sipter*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw grip (I used to use palm grip but then somehow transitioned to claw grip when I moved from DA 1800 to XAI)
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1800dpi - Medium sensitivity?
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Around 75 bucks, can stretch it though if need be.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary, but would be nice to have. (Rarely use them)
> 5. What games do you play? Counterstrike, Battlefield, a little of COD, and DOTA.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not sure about this one.
> 7. Other relevant information: My hands are pretty big.
> I would like to give some input (side note) about the problem I just had. A few days ago, I purchased the DA black edition expecting it to work really well for me (Like back when I had the DA 1800). It turns out though that I just realized that because of the XAI, I gradually transitioned into a Claw grip user. After doing more researches, I came up with a conclusion that I will sell the DA black edition and get the cash to buy something else. Sad to be honest, the DA black looks really sexy. However claw grip on the DA just wouldn't cut it for me. I am looking at the CMSTORM Spawn, however any recommendations will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.


An ambidextrious mouse that is suited for claw would probally fit you best then.

What are the reasons you don't like the xai though? If its because of acceleration problems and you have a clothpad, then a sensei/sensei raw will give you a better performance and probally be the most obvious choice if you can live the small amount of acceleration.

The next obvious choice would be the zowie AM. A similar shape to the xai although it feels a bit different because the sides are more / \. Another option could be the cm storm recon. If it doesn't need to be ambidextrious there are other options too, like the roccat sota. Since your hands are big the cm storm spawn would probally be too small


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sipter*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw grip (I used to use palm grip but then somehow transitioned to claw grip when I moved from DA 1800 to XAI)
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1800dpi - Medium sensitivity?
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Around 75 bucks, can stretch it though if need be.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary, but would be nice to have. (Rarely use them)
> 5. What games do you play? Counterstrike, Battlefield, a little of COD, and DOTA.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not sure about this one.
> 7. Other relevant information: My hands are pretty big.
> I would like to give some input (side note) about the problem I just had. A few days ago, I purchased the DA black edition expecting it to work really well for me (Like back when I had the DA 1800). It turns out though that I just realized that because of the XAI, I gradually transitioned into a Claw grip user. After doing more researches, I came up with a conclusion that I will sell the DA black edition and get the cash to buy something else. Sad to be honest, the DA black looks really sexy. However claw grip on the DA just wouldn't cut it for me. I am looking at the CMSTORM Spawn, however any recommendations will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.


I'd recommend the Logitech G400. I came from trying to do a claw grip on a DA to the G400, and it's much more comfortable. The steeper angle on the back of the G400 is a lot easier to do a claw grip on than the deathadder, if you have large hands.


----------



## sipter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> An ambidextrious mouse that is suited for claw would probally fit you best then.
> What are the reasons you don't like the xai though? If its because of acceleration problems and you have a clothpad, then a sensei/sensei raw will give you a better performance and probally be the most obvious choice if you can live the small amount of acceleration.
> The next obvious choice would be the zowie AM. A similar shape to the xai although it feels a bit different because the sides are more / \. Another option could be the cm storm recon. If it doesn't need to be ambidextrious there are other options too, like the roccat sota. Since your hands are big the cm storm spawn would probally be too small


I only have a few complaints about the XAI, and that is that my pinky kinda hurts when I use it (VERY MINOR problem), and the second one being my left click just started doing double clicks so I guess it's time to change it. (around 1.5-2 yrs old, heavy use.) I'm looking into the sensei raw also, I guess that would be the most logical choice for me.

Thank you very much for both of your inputs, it helped me a lot!


----------



## Dargonplay

Hi people, I'm having a hard time trying to choose a Mouse for my New Razer Scarab Mousepad, my 2 thoughts now are The Razer Mamba 4G and the Cyborg R.A.T.9, I'm open to heard any Suggestion.

*1. What's your grip style?*

I usually have the Claw Grip but I can get used to almost anything since I've changed My mouse So many times, I've had Mouse for Palm, Claw, ETC... I feel like Claw is Mine, I have a crappy Genius Mouse Now, those you can get for free.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

2500 DPI On a 1280x1024 Monitor, I think it means High sensitivity, Not sure.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

500$ For my Mouse + Mousepad, I'm 99% I'm going to get the Razer Scarab along with the new Mouse I decide to Buy, I'm open to suggestion on this too.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

5 Buttons, Not less, I need 2 Buttons on the side more than the 3 Buttons on all Mouses (Right click, Left and wheel)

*5. What games do you play?*

1-) World of Warcraft as Main Game, Got Rank 1 in 2v2 on my Current server 5 months ago with my Old gaming mouse (Fierce Rude Gameware 5600 DPI) after it died, My Score got ****ed due to my new Genius Mouse, playing Death Knight.

2-) Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1-2-3 Multiplayer.

3-)The Elder Scroll V

4-)Darksider, Devil May Cry and that Kind of Games.

5-) Battlefield 3

6-) Dead Space 1-2-3

7-) A little of LoL

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'm truly not sure, I haven't tried this feature before, I don't know how this would Improve my Gaming, I prefer to Believe I'm Accurate enough even in a Hard Mousepad.

*7. Other relevant information:*

Wireless Mouse, never Wired, I'm Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiireeeeeeeeeeed of the tangled feedback I have from wired Mouses, Even high ends Gaming Wired Mouses, I still can feel it, Much less but I do feel it, The faster the Mouse the better (1 MS Or less) Bad ass look Style prefered, but performance is first, I do prefer the most accurate Mouse with the best performance even having the worst design.

I'm having a hard time thinking on the R.A.T.9 Or the Rzer Mamba 4G, I actually made a Post with a Pool asking for suggestions and Votes, a second Opinion wouldn't be bad.

Thanks in advanced and forgive my English, Not my first Language.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Both the RAT and Mamba should perform similarly, as they both have the same sensor. The mamba has a bad grip shape, IMO, if it is indeed like the same shape as the deathadder.


----------



## Dargonplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Both the RAT and Mamba should perform similarly, as they both have the same sensor. The mamba has a bad grip shape, IMO, if it is indeed like the same shape as the deathadder.


But the Razer Mamba have an Optical 4G and the R.A.T.9 use a Laser Sensor.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dargonplay*
> 
> But the Razer Mamba have an Optical 4G and the R.A.T.9 use a Laser Sensor.


4G optical is code for the phillips twin eye sensor
The RAT also uses a phillips twin eye sensor, which is confusingly called a LASER sensor along with the other different kind of laser sensors.

They should just call it a doppler sensor and end the confusion, IMO. It also has the benefit of sounding like some cool techno jargon.


----------



## Skylit

Mamba 4G has a second optical sensor, though the specific technology isn't made for dedicated tracking.

You seem to still not to understand that Optical and Laser are nothing than how a product is illuminated regardless of technology behind it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Mamba 4G has a second optical sensor, though the specific technology isn't made for dedicated tracking.
> You seem to still not to understand that Optical and Laser are nothing than how a product is illuminated regardless of technology behind it.


My solution is to just not call sensors by their illumination sources.

Does the second sensor on the mamba actually do anything? I'm told that it can calibrate the sensor to reduce liftoff distance, but the PTE sensor has something like a 2mm liftoff distance, so I'm not sure that it would do anything in practice.


----------



## zhook

I ordered a Rat7 earlier this month and I have a very love/hate relationship with it and am trying to decide whether or not to RMA it, I have two other mice in mind.

While it tracks okay it's very sensitive to dust and stuff in the optics, and sometimes I don't even know if it's anything in there, it just spazzes. I can't really put a frequency on it though, sometimes it happens often, and other times rarely.

Ergonomically it's great but the thumb rest is supposed to be adjustable, like on a hinge it swings in/out, but it doesn't lock into position well, in the fully out position, slight pressure will cause it to pop back to a sort of half-way position. The palm rest only seems to be usable in 3 of the 4 positions it has, in the 4th it always pops foreward ino the 3rd position some time during play.

It also has the issue with that slight twitch on pickup, but that's not a huge issue for me, just a minor annoyance to see.

Now given that it's $75 I feel that these little things just... well they shouldn't exist.

I know the G9x has great reviews, the big issue seems to be the mouse wheel pressure, but I rarely use mwheel click. How are the ergonomics? I don't have much of a grip preference, I can use palm, fingertip, and to some extent claw, as long as the mouse is comfortable in that position. My hands are medium (by Razer's standards they are exactly average measurements in all dimensions). How is the lift off distance? Is it significantly less susceptible to dust-in-lens syndrome, or is this something I can expect from most high-DPI modern mice?

The other one was the CM Storm Sentinel, anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zhook*
> 
> I ordered a Rat7 earlier this month and I have a very love/hate relationship with it and am trying to decide whether or not to RMA it, I have two other mice in mind.
> 
> While it tracks okay it's very sensitive to dust and stuff in the optics, and sometimes I don't even know if it's anything in there, it just spazzes. I can't really put a frequency on it though, sometimes it happens often, and other times rarely.
> 
> Ergonomically it's great but the thumb rest is supposed to be adjustable, like on a hinge it swings in/out, but it doesn't lock into position well, in the fully out position, slight pressure will cause it to pop back to a sort of half-way position. The palm rest only seems to be usable in 3 of the 4 positions it has, in the 4th it always pops foreward ino the 3rd position some time during play.
> 
> It also has the issue with that slight twitch on pickup, but that's not a huge issue for me, just a minor annoyance to see.
> 
> Now given that it's $75 I feel that these little things just... well they shouldn't exist.
> 
> I know the G9x has great reviews, the big issue seems to be the mouse wheel pressure, but I rarely use mwheel click. How are the ergonomics? I don't have much of a grip preference, I can use palm, fingertip, and to some extent claw, as long as the mouse is comfortable in that position. My hands are medium (by Razer's standards they are exactly average measurements in all dimensions). How is the lift off distance? Is it significantly less susceptible to dust-in-lens syndrome, or is this something I can expect from most high-DPI modern mice?
> 
> The other one was the CM Storm Sentinel, anyone have any experience with this?


I have the same problems with my R.A.T. 7.

I'm looking at a Sensei, Deathadder or G400/500.


----------



## stevman17

*1. What's your grip style?*

"Clawpaw" grip. Arm on table, palm sort of off the mouse, click with fingerprints.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

5100dpi., 1440p, using a Logitech G500.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$1 billion.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?
*
No interest

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS - BF3

*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*
Yes, would prefer no prediction, no acceleration.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I really want a huge mouse that has a pinky holder. My G500 is great, but my pinky drags on my mouse-pad. I tried the Corsair M60 and it is way too small. I tried the CM Storm Sentinel Advanced II, and it wasn't wide enough.


----------



## stevman17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zhook*
> 
> I
> The other one was the CM Storm Sentinel, anyone have any experience with this?


I have experience with the Storm Sentinel II Advanced:

While the mouse works well, I couldn't get a comfortable grip. It felt too narrow. Also, the fit and finish of the mouse is kind of cheap and plastic.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zhook*
> 
> I ordered a Rat7 earlier this month and I have a very love/hate relationship with it and am trying to decide whether or not to RMA it, I have two other mice in mind.
> While it tracks okay it's very sensitive to dust and stuff in the optics, and sometimes I don't even know if it's anything in there, it just spazzes. I can't really put a frequency on it though, sometimes it happens often, and other times rarely.
> Ergonomically it's great but the thumb rest is supposed to be adjustable, like on a hinge it swings in/out, but it doesn't lock into position well, in the fully out position, slight pressure will cause it to pop back to a sort of half-way position. The palm rest only seems to be usable in 3 of the 4 positions it has, in the 4th it always pops foreward ino the 3rd position some time during play.
> It also has the issue with that slight twitch on pickup, but that's not a huge issue for me, just a minor annoyance to see.
> Now given that it's $75 I feel that these little things just... well they shouldn't exist.
> I know the G9x has great reviews, the big issue seems to be the mouse wheel pressure, but I rarely use mwheel click. How are the ergonomics? I don't have much of a grip preference, I can use palm, fingertip, and to some extent claw, as long as the mouse is comfortable in that position. My hands are medium (by Razer's standards they are exactly average measurements in all dimensions). How is the lift off distance? Is it significantly less susceptible to dust-in-lens syndrome, or is this something I can expect from most high-DPI modern mice?
> The other one was the CM Storm Sentinel, anyone have any experience with this?


Is it like where you are moving it and it suddenly stops tracking for a second? That's what mine did before I returned it.


----------



## zhook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stevman17*
> 
> I have experience with the Storm Sentinel II Advanced:
> While the mouse works well, I couldn't get a comfortable grip. It felt too narrow. Also, the fit and finish of the mouse is kind of cheap and plastic.


Ah, yeah I heard the finish wears off, but it got a good review from a standard big name reviewer, but they tend to be brown nosers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is it like where you are moving it and it suddenly stops tracking for a second? That's what mine did before I returned it.


Sometimes it stops, sometimes it stops on one axis, and sometimes it jumps around. I know they say this is a dust issue, but for one, why is it such a bad issue with this mouse and not others? For another their optics well is has a running lip on one edge so you can't even get inside to clean it properly.

One final question, does anyone know if there's any difference between the G9x and the MW3 edition other than price? I would gladly accept the label of a game I don't play to get it cheaper.


----------



## Phos

It's more of a problem for the RAT because it uses the now kind of uncommon Phillips twin eye sensor which is very sensitive to dust. Phillips probably shouldn't have told mouse manufacturers to put that lip there. I guess it's to protect the sensor, but it's not like that was an issue and it just makes it pick up dust more readily.


----------



## zhook

Yeah idk I used a TT Esports Black that had a PTE sensor and it wasn't as bad as the one in the RAT, it was an older model. It would, on occasion, spaz, but rarely, less violently, and the sensor well was nice and open so you could clean it easily, which you pretty much never had to because it was almost always a hair under the mouse, not something actually stuck in the optics area.

I'm going to order the G9x, I'll try both side by side and send back the loser.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zhook*
> 
> Ah, yeah I heard the finish wears off, but it got a good review from a standard big name reviewer, but they tend to be brown nosers.
> Sometimes it stops, sometimes it stops on one axis, and sometimes it jumps around. I know they say this is a dust issue, but for one, why is it such a bad issue with this mouse and not others? For another their optics well is has a running lip on one edge so you can't even get inside to clean it properly.
> One final question, does anyone know if there's any difference between the G9x and the MW3 edition other than price? I would gladly accept the label of a game I don't play to get it cheaper.


Can you see any dust caught in the sensor cavity? Mine looked completely clean, yet it would often have this issue.
What sensitivity do you play on? A mouse with an ADSN 3090 sensor might be just as well suited for you, and much cheaper.

The G9x MW3 edition should be exactly the same as the regular one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> It's more of a problem for the RAT because it uses the now kind of uncommon Phillips twin eye sensor which is very sensitive to dust. Phillips probably shouldn't have told mouse manufacturers to put that lip there. I guess it's to protect the sensor, but it's not like that was an issue and it just makes it pick up dust more readily.


You can clean the lip fairly easily, and I never had any problem with dust accumulating in it; though, that's probably because I returned it within a week of buying it.


----------



## zhook

It doesn't seem to take a visibly large amount to cause it.

Another issue I'm finding is with very precise, small movements the mouse fails me. I have my old Deathadder here and it's very evident when making small circles with the mouse, the Deathadder makes them smoother and better while something with the RAT7 just seems off.

This is crucial in things like sniper duals


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zhook*
> 
> It doesn't seem to take a visibly large amount to cause it.
> Another issue I'm finding is with very precise, small movements the mouse fails me. I have my old Deathadder here and it's very evident when making small circles with the mouse, the Deathadder makes them smoother and better while something with the RAT7 just seems off.
> This is crucial in things like sniper duals


Really? I felt that the RAT was more precise than the deathadder, especially at high DPI settings.


----------



## zhook

Idk maybe it's just the significant weight difference causing the RAT to stick to the pad more requiring slightly more forceful nudges. Weightless rat is almost 2x DE


----------



## 161029

1. What's your grip style?

I switch between 2: fingertip and fingertip but with my lower palm touching the back of the mouse (I guess you could call it clawpaw)

2. What's your sensitivity?

No idea. First "proper" mouse.

3. What's your maximum budget?

None as of now.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Not necessarily. Would be nice.

5. What games do you play?

Twin stick shooters.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No but I'd prefer not to have it.

7. Other relevant information:

Using a Logitech Click! Optical mouse. Windows won't show DPI (I have to use the slider in the control panel). Forgive me if there's some way to find out but I just don't know how. I would prefer optical (any acceleration I'm rather against right now because it can usually start distracting me while I play twin-stick shooters as I don't own a gamepad).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I switch between 2: fingertip and fingertip but with my lower palm touching the back of the mouse (I guess you could call it clawpaw)
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> No idea. First "proper" mouse.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> None as of now.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not necessarily. Would be nice.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Twin stick shooters.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No but I'd prefer not to have it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Using a Logitech Click! Optical mouse. Windows won't show DPI (I have to use the slider in the control panel). Forgive me if there's some way to find out but I just don't know how. I would prefer optical (any acceleration I'm rather against right now because it can usually start distracting me while I play twin-stick shooters as I don't own a gamepad).


I'm not exactly sure of the difference between claw and clawpaw grip, but the Logitech G400 works for whichever of them I do.
The Roccat Savu and Zowie AM are good for fingertip grip.
None of those have acceleration or prediction.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I'm not exactly sure of the difference between claw and clawpaw grip, but the Logitech G400 works for whichever of them I do.
> The Roccat Savu and Zowie AM are good for fingertip grip.
> None of those have acceleration or prediction.


I'm considering the G400 but right now using fingertip and clawpaw (pretty sure in claw it's just like fingertip but with the very edge of your fingertips or maybe your nails except in claw and fingertip, your palm doesn't touch the mouse at all, or at most times) on this Logitech Click! Optical Mouse is sort of uncomfortable with my pinky due to the fact that there's a small part where my pinky is supposed to rest as this mouse was designed for palm users in mind, but my pinky is curled and it's uncomfortable to hold on so sometimes I accidentally drop the mouse when I go to lift it. If I curl my finger and keep it against the mouse, it touches my mousepad (which as of now is a solid plastic cover notebook. lol).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> I'm considering the G400 but right now using fingertip and clawpaw (pretty sure in claw it's just like fingertip but with the very edge of your fingertips or maybe your nails except in claw and fingertip, your palm doesn't touch the mouse at all, or at most times) on this Logitech Click! Optical Mouse is sort of uncomfortable with my pinky due to the fact that there's a small part where my pinky is supposed to rest as this mouse was designed for palm users in mind, but my pinky is curled and it's uncomfortable to hold on so sometimes I accidentally drop the mouse when I go to lift it. If I curl my finger and keep it against the mouse, it touches my mousepad (which as of now is a solid plastic cover notebook. lol).


As far as I know, claw grip is like fingertip, but the back of your hand touches the mouse. If it is clawpaw where your palm touches your mouse, then I do clawpaw as well sometimes, and it works just as well as claw on the G400.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> As far as I know, claw grip is like fingertip, but the back of your hand touches the mouse. If it is clawpaw where your palm touches your mouse, then I do clawpaw as well sometimes, and it works just as well as claw on the G400.


I just went on the Razer website and checked and guessing from the name of clawpaw, you probably use your wrist and forearm to push the mouse around while your fingers are arched and the pit or your hand/palm is in contact with the back of the mouse.

I'm going to be honest, I spend most of my time using fingertip. I can't really say that I use clawpaw or paw (or even claw) that often because my mouse is usually only against my palm if I'm in a resting/relaxed mode/position.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> I just went on the Razer website and checked and guessing from the name of clawpaw, you probably use your wrist and forearm to push the mouse around while your fingers are arched and the pit or your hand/palm is in contact with the back of the mouse.
> I'm going to be honest, I spend most of my time using fingertip. I can't really say that I use clawpaw or paw (or even claw) that often because my mouse is usually only against my palm if I'm in a resting/relaxed mode/position.


The G400's fits against my palm best.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I love my G400 for palm


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*
> 
> I love my G400 for palm


Agreed, it's one of the best palm mice.


----------



## duox

I am bored and want to try a glaw grip mouse again. I currently use the da black at 900 dpi and 500hz polling and would like something with a similar feel. Lift off distance is no concern but prediction and acceleration are not desired. What are my options.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> I am bored and want to try a glaw grip mouse again. I currently use the da black at 900 dpi and 500hz polling and would like something with a similar feel. Lift off distance is no concern but prediction and acceleration are not desired. What are my options.


Mice that can be claw-grip with sensor w/o prediction or acceleration that come to my mind: CM Storm Spawn/Recon, Roccat Savu, Tt Saphira (prediction cannot be confirmed before Skylit's list is up again)...


----------



## Maknet

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip grip.
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Medium to low.
*3. Do you want additional buttons?*
Not required.
*4. What games do you play?*
FPS, RTS and web browsing.
*5. Do you mind about prediction?*
I do not want prediction.
*6. Other relevant information:*
I want to be able to easily pick up the mouse, I want a optical sensor with low LOD, I like low mousewheels.
I currently own Logitech G400, which is slightly too big for my grip, LOD could be a bit lower, cord could be a little more moveable, otherwise good mouse.

Can somebody suggest a good mouse for me or should I wait for the bst one?

From pictures I like Steelseries Kana but I feel like the general consensus from more serious mouse users is that steelseries mice are crap compared to some other stuff. Is this the case with Kana?

Thanks!


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Agreed, it's one of the best palm mice.


Considering the fact that I can fingertip a Logitech Click! Optical mouse and that and the G400 have basically the same shape (I think), I think I might be able to use it. Sometimes this mouse is a bit annoying to fingertip though.

Edit: How would a Roccat Savu compare? I know it's more of a fingertip mouse but performance and build quality wise how does it compare to the G400 and Zowie AM?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Considering the fact that I can fingertip a Logitech Click! Optical mouse and that and the G400 have basically the same shape (I think), I think I might be able to use it. Sometimes this mouse is a bit annoying to fingertip though.
> Edit: How would a Roccat Savu compare? I know it's more of a fingertip mouse but performance and build quality wise how does it compare to the G400 and Zowie AM?


The ridge on the side of the G400 might give you some trouble when trying to palm grip it.


----------



## CagedMind

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
mid-high

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
lower the better

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
if possible

*5. What games do you play?*
tf2/starcraft

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
none if possible

*7. Other relevant information:*
Compact is the most important thing. Hands are a bit small and I like a wide range of movement using fingers. I consider my g9 to be massive. Needs to be wired

So far it seems razer orochi and the roccat pyra are only options. I'm reluctant to be spending that kind of money on a mouse again.

There is logitech g300 but it looks too long and cm spawn looks too fat.

*Mouse pads*
Also looking for a VERY durable mousepad. Have had razer and steelseries wear out in just a few months. Is aluminum the way to go? Smoothish friction and at least 10x9 would be nice.


----------



## Phos

If the G400 is too big you might try the savu, though it's ergonomics are a tad hit or miss.

Actually, I used to fingertip the G400, now I have a CM Spawn which I also fingertip and find a lot more comfortable.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> If the G400 is too big you might try the savu, though it's ergonomics are a tad hit or miss.
> Actually, I used to fingertip the G400, now I have a CM Spawn which I also fingertip and find a lot more comfortable.


Thanks. I'll see if I can find one or both at my local Best Buy (I doubt I'll find the Savu but I'll probably be able to find the DeathAdder, although I'm not considering it b/c of Synapse 2.0, and the G400. If I can't find the G400, I'll look for one of the other mice (G500?) with a similar shape).


----------



## zkyz

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-low sens

3. What's your maximum budget?
-

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Would like atleast 2/3 side buttons

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2 and firstperson shooters

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
I prefer a small mouse with light weight. I used a friends razer SC2 mouse the other day and loved the shape and feel of it, any opinions on this mouse? Or are there better mice with a similar shape and feel? I like having a good laser for the FPS gaming

EDIT: here is my friends mouse http://www.razerzone.com/licensed-peripherals/starcraft-ii-razer-spectre/

EDIT 2: I used to play with a gripless G9 the shape and feel was amazing however i need those side buttons.


----------



## kotakueuro

Returned my Sensei because the silver coating just wore off incredibly fast, didn't really like it much either.
So now I'm looking at something else.
1. What's your grip style?
Cross between claw and palm leaning towards the palm side.
2. What's your sensitivity?
1000, medium sens in game.
3. What's your maximum budget?
100 max.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
100% yes. Found that the Sensei had too few buttons for me, mainly because I had a hard time reaching the buttons on the right. Because of this, I'm going 100% for a good ergonomic mouse.
5. What games do you play?
LoL and some MMOs. Looking to pick up a lot of the upcoming MMOs too like Blade and Soul, Elder Scrolls Online.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Kinda. Doesn't really matter to me honestly, used mice with prediction before, but without is better.
7. Other relevant information:
Cord has to be able to fit into a mouse bungee. Haven't had any braided mice fray in the bungee yet so I'm ok with that.
Again has to be ergonomic with preferably more than 5 buttons.
Just so you know, currently looking at Naos 5000 and G700 (people say ergonomics are really good)


----------



## Phos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Thanks. I'll see if I can find one or both at my local Best Buy (I doubt I'll find the Savu but I'll probably be able to find the DeathAdder, although I'm not considering it b/c of Synapse 2.0, and the G400. If I can't find the G400, I'll look for one of the other mice (G500?) with a similar shape).


Actually I was responding to CagedMind but I guess it doesn't not apply for you as well. The Click optical doesn't look a lot alike the G400, though.


----------



## duox

You do not have to use synapse with the 3.5 DA or the Black Edition , this really needs to be made more well known to people because I keep hearing ppl say they don't want it cause of synapse which you do not have to use. You can go into the driver archive and get the stand alone drivers.


----------



## bombzaway

.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> Actually I was responding to CagedMind but I guess it doesn't not apply for you as well. The Click optical doesn't look a lot alike the G400, though.


Ahaha. I see.


----------



## CagedMind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phos*
> 
> If the G400 is too big you might try the savu, though it's ergonomics are a tad hit or miss.
> Actually, I used to fingertip the G400, now I have a CM Spawn which I also fingertip and find a lot more comfortable.


Savu would need to be at least half inch shorter to start getting into my range.

Compared to g9 how big does the spawn feel holding it? Do your fingers have to spread out as wide? Does the ass of spawn taper off better and not as intrusive? Can you hold it more towards the back creating more space?

Wired roccat pyra vs orochi which is better?


----------



## Phos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CagedMind*
> 
> Savu would need to be at least half inch shorter to start getting into my range.
> Compared to g9 how big does the spawn feel holding it? Do your fingers have to spread out as wide? Does the ass of spawn taper off better and not as intrusive? Can you hold it more towards the back creating more space?
> Wired roccat pyra vs orochi which is better?


Sorry, I've not used a G9, though I imagine the cut out for your ring finger improves it a lot in that regard, and yes the rear is very tapered. Lift off is a little high on it at the moment but CM is still working on it and it responds well to a tap fix.

The Savu is about a half inch shorter than the G400, what about the G400 is too large for you?


----------



## CagedMind

I think you might be confusing when I said g300 with g400.

Ideally I wouldn't want it to be more then 4 inches long.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CagedMind*
> 
> I think you might be confusing when I said g300 with g400.
> Ideally I wouldn't want it to be more then 4 inches long.


4-inch is a very small size. I can only recommend the discontinued Razer Salmosa Asia Pro-gaming Edition...

It has a good sensor, but then it has prediction which you wouldn't want.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> 4-inch is a very small size


----------



## duox

Who makes the good 3 button mice these days?


----------



## Phos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CagedMind*
> 
> I think you might be confusing when I said g300 with g400.
> Ideally I wouldn't want it to be more then 4 inches long.


Oh, OK.

The G300 is a bit of a trashy mouse from what I know of it, weirdly placed sensor for the sake of lighting. I also think it has a budget sensor, BST's manufacturer was able to get decent speed out of it but I've no idea if Logitech bothered. His mice are definitely worth considering if you're going to wait a bit, going to be sold under the Ninox brand.

Pyra vs. Orochi, the Orochi is a PTE mouse which comes with all the usual PTE, er, behaviors. Pyra, I have no idea. If you're looking for something that size the Recon is probably worth checking out.


----------



## zkyz

Anyone know of any mice a similar size and shape the the Razer Spectre.
I dislike razer products and am in general just looking for a higher grade of mouse/laser but similar shape and feel.

The mouse is 100mm long and 66mm wide, this is a very nice size for me


----------



## 161029

I'm at Best Buy and I just saw the RA 3G and the G400. Unfortunately there are no demo models anywhere so I can only fit my hand to the plastic casing they have around the mouse.

Can't take it out of the box because people are watching.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> I'm at Best Buy and I just saw the RA 3G and the G400. Unfortunately there are no demo models anywhere so I can only fit my hand to the plastic casing they have around the mouse.
> Can't take it out of the box because people are watching.


Instead of trying to open it secretly, you could have asked nicely for it







Not sure Best Buy's policy about this though, as I have never been to one before


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Instead of trying to open it secretly, you could have asked nicely for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure Best Buy's policy about this though, as I have never been to one before


I did. Nothing. They just stared at me and I walked away (no joke, this is exactly what happened).


----------



## nlmiller0015

I know this is off topic but when i went to best buy to buy a 120hz monitor the guy told me there no such thing he was in the squad geek section too I just left lol.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> I know this is off topic but when i went to best buy to buy a 120hz monitor the guy told me there no such thing he was in the squad geek section too I just left lol.


LOL. Well, I never trust any store employee as far as information goes. I do my own research and then go look for it.









Back on topic: The G400 seemed fine as far as fingertip goes. It's only slightly different from my Logitech Click! Optical Mouse.


----------



## Hiki

Current one: *A4tech X-710bh*

Before i had a *Razer Krait*.

I'd like the new mouse to be more responsive to click, as in less resistance, also it shouldn't weigh too much.
I don't fancy too much extra stuff, extra buttons is nice, but not must have, the sensor and tracking should be flawless at best, shouldn't be dependant on software (don't wanna install all that bloatstuff).

Grip is some mix between claw and palm.
Playing RTS (WC3, SC2) and QL mainly.
DPI between 1200 and 1600, though i am playing on low res screen, so i guess with the new mouse and sensor the standard non interpolated solution would be 1800 .
Currently using a standard black cloth pad.

I picked following ones into the options:

- *Ozone Xenon*

- *Thermaltake Saphira*

- *Razer Abyssus*

All avaible for under 35€, don't wanna spend too much on it.
Saphira has the most feature with weights, extra buttons and free DPI steps.

Or should i wait for the new Razer Krait (more like Taipan mini)? But it would be bad if can only change DPI with Synapse 2.0 ...EDIT: it probably won't be even released in Europe anyways.

Which one should i get?


----------



## vitality

1. What's your grip style?
Mainly palm
2. What's your sensitivity?
fairly high; with my deathadder it's set on 3500dpi
3. What's your maximum budget?
cheaper the better..
4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes
5. What games do you play?
Counter strike competitively.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
would rather not have it
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I ordered a g500 off newegg but saw it has acceleration and its a laser mouse which apparently is bad.. ive been looking into the g400 now.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitality*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mainly palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> fairly high; with my deathadder it's set on 3500dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> cheaper the better..
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> Counter strike competitively.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> would rather not have it
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I ordered a g500 off newegg but saw it has acceleration and its a laser mouse which apparently is bad.. ive been looking into the g400 now.


It's not bad because it's LASER, it's bad because it has acceleration. If you play at 3500DPI anyway, you should not notice the acceleration; only those using low sensitivities will notice it. I believe the acceleration only becomes significant if you are moving faster than 0.5 m/s.


----------



## Duronlor

1. What's your grip style? - Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? - Was the highest sensitivity for the Naga before it broke, 5600 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? - ~$100

4. Do you want additional buttons? - I either want a lot of them or none

5. What games do you play? - League of Legends, SCII, about to get a new computer so just about any game I want will be on the computer

6. Do you mind about prediction? - Read a bit about it, doesn't sound like it makes too big of a difference so not really.

Thanks in advance for any replies!


----------



## lb_felipe

What is RA 3G?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> What is RA 3G?


I think it's DA 3G, not RA 3G.


----------



## lb_felipe

That's probably it. Thank you.

Is CM Storm Spawn as good as ROCCAT Savu playing with low sensitivity in CS:GO and other games like that?


----------



## Atham

Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


1. I think I am using the palm grip/fingertip. It is quite difficult to tell with my current Microsoft Generic Mouse.

2. ??

3. 50-60€

4. Not necessarily

5. PlanetSide 2, TF2, a little bit of LoL and Dota 2, DC universe Online

6.??

7. I am right handed and the distance from wrist to middle finger is about 19cm. Shop I will be buying stuff from: www.alza.sk


----------



## Ice009

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I think I am currently using 800DPI (The middle setting on the Logitech G5 V2). I only just turned off EPP in Windows 7 a couple of weeks ago after reading about it here at Overclock.net and set the slider back to 6/11. 800DPI is a bit slow for me on the desktop. Should I turn the slider up a bit? Not sure how all that works.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
The 7 on the Logitech G5 seems to be enough

*5. What games do you play?*
FPS, casually.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Would prefer to be able to turn it on or off.

*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

Main thing apart from performance that I am currently looking for is comfort. I don't find the Logitech G5 to be very comfortable. I've been using it for about three years now and really want to change and get something more comfortable. I'm right handed, hands aren't very big.

I was seriously considering the Roccat Kone XTD which is available here for preorder at $69, and also the Steelseries Sensei, but that is about $95 and I don't think it is worth that price from what I have read about it so far. I'm now also looking at the new Razer Deathadder 4G version as I have been reading about it here at Overclock.net the last few days, and I think I have moved it to the top of my list. It's not available here yet though, and I am not sure how long it will be before it is released here.

Edit : This is the mousepad I am using http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-behemoth-regulator-mousepads.html , not sure what you would classify it as? I don't know much about mousepads.


----------



## Klasick

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip (Forced to use because I'm using a cheap m305 logitech)
I think I'd be a Fingertip/Palm person if my current mouse wasn't so small.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not sure, as I'm using a generic mouse, but I think it's around med/high

3. What's your maximum budget?
80$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't matter to me, it might once I can accustomed to more advanced mice and their settings

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, some other FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what this means

7. Other relevant information
Getting a gaming mouse/mouse pad for Christmas, so I'd really appreciate suggestions to the best gaming mouse i can transition to from this Logitech M305


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> 1. I think I am using the palm grip/fingertip. It is quite difficult to tell with my current Microsoft Generic Mouse.
> 2. ??
> 3. 50-60€
> 4. Not necessarily
> 5. PlanetSide 2, TF2, a little bit of LoL and Dota 2, DC universe Online
> 6.??
> 7. I am right handed and the distance from wrist to middle finger is about 19cm. Shop I will be buying stuff from: www.alza.sk


Palm and fingertip are two extremes, do you mean something in between? Then that is claw or clawpaw.

I cannot access the link you provided.

As very little information is provided by you, I guess I will suggest from a general selection with some personal bias towards the Avago top optical sensor and subjective view on the mice's build quality.

Roccat Savu, Razer DeathAdder Black Edition/3.5G, CM Storm Recon/Spawn, Zowie EC2 Evo, Tt Esports Saphira, Logitech G400. They perform similarly (probably no discernible difference for non-pro) and which one to choose depends on whether you like their shapes (try to have your hand on them if possible) and whether they provide special functions that you want.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I think I am currently using 800DPI (The middle setting on the Logitech G5 V2). I only just turned off EPP in Windows 7 a couple of weeks ago after reading about it here at Overclock.net and set the slider back to 6/11. 800DPI is a bit slow for me on the desktop. Should I turn the slider up a bit? Not sure how all that works.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $100
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> The 7 on the Logitech G5 seems to be enough
> *5. What games do you play?*
> FPS, casually.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Would prefer to be able to turn it on or off.
> *7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> Main thing apart from performance that I am currently looking for is comfort. I don't find the Logitech G5 to be very comfortable. I've been using it for about three years now and really want to change and get something more comfortable. I'm right handed, hands aren't very big.
> I was seriously considering the Roccat Kone XTD which is available here for preorder at $69, and also the Steelseries Sensei, but that is about $95 and I don't think it is worth that price from what I have read about it so far. I'm now also looking at the new Razer Deathadder 4G version as I have been reading about it here at Overclock.net the last few days, and I think I have moved it to the top of my list. It's not available here yet though, and I am not sure how long it will be before it is released here.
> Edit : This is the mousepad I am using http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-behemoth-regulator-mousepads.html , not sure what you would classify it as? I don't know much about mousepads.


G500 is quite a natural successor for G5 if you liked its shape, but seems you didn't like it so here are other choices.

Kone XTD is very big which I doubt you would find it comfortable if you didn't like G5, but you can have a look. Its sensor is known to have problems at this stage (shortly after release) which I'm not sure if Kone XTD has it.

DeathAdder 4G - are you aware of the problem with Synapse 2.0? If you can get over with it, then it is good. Or you can just get DA 3.5G/BE for safe non-Synapse 2.0 option.

Again I would suggest Roccat Savu which is an all-round mouse, but only if you like its shape, which some love and some hate (I love it).

That said, all mice named above do well / should do well at the 1600DPI range. Kone XTD should do well up to 3200DPI or higher. Judgment is reserved for DA 4G. May I ask the windows pointer speed setting that you are comfortable with, with EPP off?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klasick*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip (Forced to use because I'm using a cheap m305 logitech)
> I think I'd be a Fingertip/Palm person if my current mouse wasn't so small.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Not sure, as I'm using a generic mouse, but I think it's around med/high
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 80$
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Doesn't matter to me, it might once I can accustomed to more advanced mice and their settings
> 5. What games do you play?
> League of Legends, some other FPS games
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not sure what this means
> 7. Other relevant information
> Getting a gaming mouse/mouse pad for Christmas, so I'd really appreciate suggestions to the best gaming mouse i can transition to from this Logitech M305


That means a general good mouse and I repeat myself (as above):

Roccat Savu, Razer DeathAdder Black Edition/3.5G, CM Storm Recon/Spawn, Zowie EC2 Evo, Tt Esports Saphira, Logitech G400. They perform similarly (probably no discernible difference for non-pro) and which one to choose depends on whether you like their shapes (try to have your hand on them if possible) and whether they provide special functions that you want.

Coming from a Logitech M505 myself, I would say the shape of Savu and Recon might need less adaptation, but YMMV and it's never a bad thing to try new thing (and return it if you don't like it)


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> G500 is quite a natural successor for G5 if you liked its shape, but seems you didn't like it so here are other choices.
> Kone XTD is very big which I doubt you would find it comfortable if you didn't like G5, but you can have a look. Its sensor is known to have problems at this stage (shortly after release) which I'm not sure if Kone XTD has it.
> DeathAdder 4G - are you aware of the problem with Synapse 2.0? If you can get over with it, then it is good. Or you can just get DA 3.5G/BE for safe non-Synapse 2.0 option.
> Again I would suggest Roccat Savu which is an all-round mouse, but only if you like its shape, which some love and some hate (I love it).
> That said, all mice named above do well / should do well at the 1600DPI range. Kone XTD should do well up to 3200DPI or higher. Judgment is reserved for DA 4G. May I ask the windows pointer speed setting that you are comfortable with, with EPP off?


Yeah I did read that the Kone is big, so since I have small hands then I guess I should cross that off the list?

DeathAdder 4G, I saw synapse 2.0 mentioned, but don't know too much about it. Can you explain it to me a bit more please or the drawbacks to it?

I've just played around with the Windows pointer speed with EPP off and I think about 7 or 8/11 is what I am comfortable with. I'm going to try 7 for a bit. What does this signify?

btw what is LOD?


----------



## CiBi

1. What's your grip style?
*? I like a rubbery grippy texture...*

2. What's your sensitivity?
*no idea*

3. What's your maximum budget?
*75$ but less is more







*

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*a sniper button (to change sensitivity i guess?) would be nice, other then that i only need the 2 standard buttons and the scroll weel*

5. What games do you play?
*race games, shooters and occasionally an MMORPG*

6. Do you mind about prediction?
*what is prediction?







*

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*- I would like to be able to adjust the weight
- I dont want it to be wireless or I at least want to be able to connect it with a wire
- and I would like a mouse that works on almost all surfaces*


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Yeah I did read that the Kone is big, so since I have small hands then I guess I should cross that off the list?
> DeathAdder 4G, I saw synapse 2.0 mentioned, but don't know too much about it. Can you explain it to me a bit more please or the drawbacks to it?
> I've just played around with the Windows pointer speed with EPP off and I think about 7 or 8/11 is what I am comfortable with. I'm going to try 7 for a bit. What does this signify?
> btw what is LOD?


Setting 7/11 is 1.5x of the mouse input speed, and 8/11 is 2x. You can multiply your current mouse DPI with the multiplier and get your target DPI (so it's 1200-1600DPI), then you can look for a mouse which allows you to set that DPI level.

Here is a discussion of Synapse 2.0

LOD - lift off distance, the distance which you lift the mouse off the surface and it still tracks and above which it stops tracking. Important if you tend to lift your mouse off the desk when using it.


----------



## Cyclonicks

1. What's your grip style?
palm I guess

2. What's your sensitivity?
mid to high. I have a r.a.t. 9 currently and running almost at max dpi most of the time

3. What's your maximum budget?
-

4. Do you want additional buttons?
4 buttons is fine

5. What games do you play?
fps and diablo stuff mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
not sure

7. Other relevant information:
I enjoy my r.a.t. 9 for the precision/speed but liked my performance mx more for comfort, I'd like to know if there's something combining both of them out there.. I wouldn't mind a tad larger than a performance mx my pinky gets cramped on the r.a.t. 9. Don't care about wireless or wired, I'm used to wireless but wired can be fine too.

I'm currently looking through this thread, I'd like some inputs too


----------



## zkyz

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-low sens

3. What's your maximum budget?
-

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Would like atleast 2/3 side buttons

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2 and firstperson shooters

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
I prefer a small mouse with light weight. I used a friends razer SC2 mouse the other day and loved the shape and feel of it, any opinions on this mouse? Or are there better mice with a similar shape and feel? I like having a good laser for the FPS gaming

here is my friends mouse http://www.razerzone.com/licensed-peripherals/starcraft-ii-razer-spectre/

I used to play with a grip less G9 the shape and feel was amazing however the side buttons were impossible to use and this got to me.


----------



## avalonmabi

1. What's your grip style?
Mostly palm, sometimes claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
low to medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just 2 to 5 extra button should be sufficient

5. What games do you play?
GW2. SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really.

7. Other relevant information:
I will use the mouse mostly for gaming ad I play GW2 the most. I do want a mouse with a cord. The current mice i'm looking into buying are the razer deathadder 3.5 with blue lighting vs logitech g400 vs logitech g500. Will probably need to get a mouse pad to since I just use a generic mouse pad. I'm looking into the razer team liquid mouse just because I watch a lot of SC2.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avalonmabi*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mostly palm, sometimes claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low to medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just 2 to 5 extra button should be sufficient
> 5. What games do you play?
> GW2. SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I will use the mouse mostly for gaming ad I play GW2 the most. I do want a mouse with a cord. The current mice i'm looking into buying are the razer deathadder 3.5 with blue lighting vs logitech g400 vs logitech g500. Will probably need to get a mouse pad to since I just use a generic mouse pad. I'm looking into the razer team liquid mouse just because I watch a lot of SC2.


If you are going to do palm or claw grip with low sensitivity, I would recommend the g400. The G500 is good for people who are using a high sensitivity, but the acceleration may become noticeable to low sensitivity users. The Deathadder is not a bad mouse, but it has undersized feet, and I find the ergonomics of it to be terrible. My hands are fairly large, so your experience may differ from mine.


----------



## Praxis1452

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip. Technically I let the mouse touch the back of my palm but only when I pull it down with my fingers. I let it rest on the mouse when I'm surfing the web or w/e.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently using the abyssus with 1800dpi and 1000hz. Getting a new mouse because the abyssus right click is sticking I think.

3. What's your maximum budget?
<$70 preferrably.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Would be nice, not necessary.
5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, and some others. But LoL mostly.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would prefer no accelleration.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.

My first gaming mouse was the razer krait. It was lighter than my current abyssus with a really light click. That's pretty much what I prefer and the mouse lasted 5 years before the right click went. It was effortless to click anything. The abyssus is heavier and harder to click. I just bought the g9x off amazon because I got it for $45 which seems like a good deal, but I might hold off and return it if people suggest a different mouse. I prefer light pressure to get a click, and I don't have large hands I would say.

Seems like mice just get bigger and harder to use. I like extra buttons but I really dislike mice I have to palm grip. I also pretty much never switch dpi. I'm used to one sensitivity and I dislike switching. Don't play too many fps's.

Any help appreciated.


----------



## avalonmabi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avalonmabi*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mostly palm, sometimes claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low to medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just 2 to 5 extra button should be sufficient
> 5. What games do you play?
> GW2. SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I will use the mouse mostly for gaming ad I play GW2 the most. I do want a mouse with a cord. The current mice i'm looking into buying are the razer deathadder 3.5 with blue lighting vs logitech g400 vs logitech g500. Will probably need to get a mouse pad to since I just use a generic mouse pad. I'm looking into the razer team liquid mouse just because I watch a lot of SC2.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you are going to do palm or claw grip with low sensitivity, I would recommend the g400. The G500 is good for people who are using a high sensitivity, but the acceleration may become noticeable to low sensitivity users. The Deathadder is not a bad mouse, but it has undersized feet, and I find the ergonomics of it to be terrible. My hands are fairly large, so your experience may differ from mine.


Any comments on the g9x vs the g400?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Praxis1452*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip. Technically I let the mouse touch the back of my palm but only when I pull it down with my fingers. I let it rest on the mouse when I'm surfing the web or w/e.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Currently using the abyssus with 1800dpi and 1000hz. Getting a new mouse because the abyssus right click is sticking I think.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> <$70 preferrably.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Would be nice, not necessary.
> 5. What games do you play?
> League of Legends, and some others. But LoL mostly.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Would prefer no accelleration.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> My first gaming mouse was the razer krait. It was lighter than my current abyssus with a really light click. That's pretty much what I prefer and the mouse lasted 5 years before the right click went. It was effortless to click anything. The abyssus is heavier and harder to click. I just bought the g9x off amazon because I got it for $45 which seems like a good deal, but I might hold off and return it if people suggest a different mouse. I prefer light pressure to get a click, and I don't have large hands I would say.
> Seems like mice just get bigger and harder to use. I like extra buttons but I really dislike mice I have to palm grip. I also pretty much never switch dpi. I'm used to one sensitivity and I dislike switching. Don't play too many fps's.
> Any help appreciated.


The G400 is the best one to palm grip, IMO. It might be a bit difficult to fingertip grip, though.
I could recommend the Deathadder for palm grip, but with a fingertip grip, the weight is too far back, and it fishtails.
The Zowie EC Evo I have not used, but I have heard it's a similar shape to the deathadder.
The Zowie AM looks good for fingertip grip, but is smaller than the Deathadder, so it might be hard to palm grip
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avalonmabi*
> 
> Any comments on the g9x vs the g400?


You don't need the A9500 sensor if you are using a low sensitivity. If you don't need anything over 1800 DPI, then go for the G400; it has the best sensor below 1800 DPI, IMO.


----------



## duox

Just started a new job and the office mice suck to say the least. Is there a wired equivalent to the mx performance ? I don't want a gaming mouse just something ******edly comfortable for work , I got a deathadder at home for the gaming , and a g500 that simply is not comofortable enough for 8 hours at work.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> Just started a new job and the office mice suck to say the least. Is there a wired equivalent to the mx performance ? I don't want a gaming mouse just something ******edly comfortable for work , I got a deathadder at home for the gaming , and a g500 that simply is not comofortable enough for 8 hours at work.


Something ******edly comfortable? Naos 5000, Vertical Mouse, Handshoe...


----------



## kotakueuro

Returned my Sensei because the silver coating just wore off incredibly fast, didn't really like it much either.
So now I'm looking at something else.
1. What's your grip style?
Cross between claw and palm leaning towards the palm side.
2. What's your sensitivity?
1000, medium sens in game.
3. What's your maximum budget?
100 max.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
100% yes. Found that the Sensei had too few buttons for me, mainly because I had a hard time reaching the buttons on the right. Because of this, I'm going 100% for a good ergonomic mouse.
5. What games do you play?
LoL and some MMOs. Looking to pick up a lot of the upcoming MMOs too like Blade and Soul, Elder Scrolls Online.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Kinda. Doesn't really matter to me honestly, used mice with prediction before, but without is better.
7. Other relevant information:
Cord has to be able to fit into a mouse bungee. Haven't had any braided mice fray in the bungee yet so I'm ok with that.
Again has to be ergonomic with preferably more than 5 buttons.
Just so you know, currently looking at Naos 5000, G700 and Kone XTD (looking at this one the most)


----------



## torniquet

Time to retire my MX518 the rubber has been slowly coming off and leaving crap on my desk, plastic gets all sticky too.

*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw on the MX518
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Mid-High
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
60$, dont mind waiting for sales or slightly used
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Used to having 8 buttons, would prefer at least that or more
*5. What games do you play?*
First person MMO, CS:GO
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction
*7. Other relevant information:*
Should be for general use/browsing and gaming as well.
Anti sweat coating?
Using a SS Qck mini mousepad.
^Only mouse ever.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *torniquet*
> 
> Time to retire my MX518 the rubber has been slowly coming off and leaving crap on my desk, plastic gets all sticky too.
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Claw on the MX518
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Mid-High
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 60$, dont mind waiting for sales or slightly used
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Used to having 8 buttons, would prefer at least that or more
> *5. What games do you play?*
> First person MMO, CS:GO
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Should be for general use/browsing and gaming as well.
> Anti sweat coating?
> Using a SS Qck mini mousepad.
> ^Only mouse ever.


If you liked MX518, then G400 is your obvious choice...

Otherwise, you can also look at DeathAdder, Savu, Spawn, Recon and see if their shape and button placement suit your needs.


----------



## torniquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *torniquet*
> 
> Time to retire my MX518 the rubber has been slowly coming off and leaving crap on my desk, plastic gets all sticky too.
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Claw on the MX518
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Mid-High
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 60$, dont mind waiting for sales or slightly used
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Used to having 8 buttons, would prefer at least that or more
> *5. What games do you play?*
> First person MMO, CS:GO
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I don't really mind, I would prefer no prediction
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Should be for general use/browsing and gaming as well.
> Anti sweat coating?
> Using a SS Qck mini mousepad.
> ^Only mouse ever.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> If you liked MX518, then G400 is your obvious choice...
> Otherwise, you can also look at DeathAdder, Savu, Spawn, Recon and see if their shape and button placement suit your needs.


Narrowed it down to Logitech G400 vs Sensei Raw ?


----------



## thehammer007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *torniquet*
> 
> Narrowed it down to Logitech G400 vs Sensei Raw ?


Get the G400, I also claw on my G400 and when I tried my friend's Sensei Raw, it it very uncomfortable as that thing is rather light compared to my G400 and I kept hitting the 2 buttons on the right side of the mouse with my pinkie so I would not recommend it... Try the CM Storm Spawn if you wanna claw, I tried it at the store once and its a really nice experience for clawing, clawing only. I sometimes palm my mouse when I surf the net and I claw when I game, I really wish I have the Spawn AND the G400 cuz these 2 mice are amazing! Both have very accurate sensors and they don't have any acceleration issues, easily the best FPS mouse out there.


----------



## Bigm

1. What's your grip style?
Palm (I think, not really sure)
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium (????) (I use the middle setting on my craptasitc Corsair M60)
3. What's your maximum budget?
US $120
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, preferably 5+
5. What games do you play?
RuneScape (which just got an action bar)
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No
7. Other relevant information:
Needs Win8 Compatibility.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *torniquet*
> 
> Narrowed it down to Logitech G400 vs Sensei Raw ?


If you like 1800 DPI or less, then get the G400; if you need more than 1800 DPI, then get the Sensei.
The Sensei has a sensor which has acceleration, while the G400 has none, but the Sensei can do a much higher DPI than the G400.
You really shouldn't need more than 1800 DPI, though.


----------



## RedJokr

Im looking for a fps gaming mouse that had no accel. Has the best Sensor available. and claw grip. Any suggestions?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedJokr*
> 
> Im looking for a fps gaming mouse that had no accel. Has the best Sensor available. and claw grip. Any suggestions?


Logitech G400, Deathadder, Zowie EC Evo and Roccat Savu are my suggestions. They all have pretty much the same sensor; the Zowie mice have a lower LOD, though.


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Something ******edly comfortable? Naos 5000, Vertical Mouse, Handshoe...


Was sorta looking for something for an office mouse that is cheaper than the mx perfromance


----------



## RedJokr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Logitech G400, Deathadder, Zowie EC Evo and Roccat Savu are my suggestions. They all have pretty much the same sensor; the Zowie mice have a lower LOD, though.


Hmmm, I seem to be deciding between the Roccat Savu, the 2013 deathadder? (possibly), or maybe even a CM spawn. Does the CM spawn have a great sensor too as with these other listed? oh and isnt the g400 specifically for palm grip?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedJokr*
> 
> Hmmm, I seem to be deciding between the Roccat Savu, the 2013 deathadder? (possibly), or maybe even a CM spawn. Does the CM spawn have a great sensor too as with these other listed? oh and isnt the g400 specifically for palm grip?


The CM storm spawn has the same sensor, but I have heard that it has some jitter problems, so I would stay away from it.

The G400 is designed for palm grip, but I can comfortable claw grip mine.

Also, the Zowie Ec Evo is apparently similar to the Deathadder in shape, and it probably has a better build quality than the deathadder.


----------



## Phos

I've not noticed any jitter.


----------



## kpriess

The G9x is a great mouse for $45..


----------



## thehammer007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you like 1800 DPI or less, then get the G400; if you need more than 1800 DPI, then get the Sensei.
> The Sensei has a sensor which has acceleration, while the G400 has none, but the Sensei can do a much higher DPI than the G400.
> You really shouldn't need more than 1800 DPI, though.


The G400 can do up to 3600 dpi.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thehammer007*
> 
> The G400 can do up to 3600 dpi.


As far as I know, the sensor cannot actually do 3600 DPI, it uses interpolation or something to achieve that sensitivity. Whatever it is, it's jittery as hell past 1800 DPI.


----------



## avalonmabi

I actually noticed I'm more of a claw user than palm user. Would logitech g400 or razer deathadder 3.5G? Also what's the difference between laser, optical vs infrared sensors? And my orginal post with additional info is on page 75. Thanks, looking to buy one by the weekend.


----------



## luisfaria24

*1. What's your grip style?*

I'm a intellimouse 3.0 user and i love it. The only cons factor is the scroll bug that i hate.
I use mostly palm grip but i change between moments of gaming.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Very low sensivity! 400dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

I will give any price for quality. 100-150

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Not a very usefull thing. In my 3.0 i barely use mouse4 and mouse5 but its good sometimes

*5. What games do you play?*

Only FPS! I've played in a good level CS:SOURCE and now moving to CS:GO

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Ofcource. I'd like a no prediction mouse like 3.0

*7. Other relevant information:*

LOD very low, driveless will be nice and nothing more. Something like a ie3.0. I'm looking for a new mouse but a i will really go another time for 3.0 if i cant find a good replace.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luisfaria24*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> I'm a intellimouse 3.0 user and i love it. The only cons factor is the scroll bug that i hate.
> I use mostly palm grip but i change between moments of gaming.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Very low sensivity! 400dpi
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> I will give any price for quality. 100-150
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Not a very usefull thing. In my 3.0 i barely use mouse4 and mouse5 but its good sometimes
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Only FPS! I've played in a good level CS:SOURCE and now moving to CS:GO
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Ofcource. I'd like a no prediction mouse like 3.0
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> LOD very low, driveless will be nice and nothing more. Something like a ie3.0. I'm looking for a new mouse but a i will really go another time for 3.0 if i cant find a good replace.


Personally I recommend the Logitech G400 for palm grip, although the mouse wheel isn't the best.

I also recommend the Zowie EC Evo, as it might be good for palm grip as well.


----------



## luisfaria24

G400 seems so strange i dont know if im able to adapt to it.
But i will give it a try. If it dont have a scroll bug like 3.0 im fine.

Zowie's have that bug where mouse1 touches mouse2 right?

looking forward to deathadder 2013 if the sensor is good


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luisfaria24*
> 
> G400 seems so strange i dont know if im able to adapt to it.
> But i will give it a try. If it dont have a scroll bug like 3.0 im fine.
> Zowie's have that bug where mouse1 touches mouse2 right?
> looking forward to deathadder 2013 if the sensor is good


I've never had any significant scroll issues with the G400, except for ghost scrolling when I try to click the scroll wheel, but it is rare, and if you press it right, it's impossible to cause the ghost scrolling.

The G400 is a bit strange, but I find that it is the most comfortable of any mouse I have used.

I have no idea about the Zowie EC Evo; I have just heard good reviews of it, and know the kind of sensor it uses, so I assume that it is good.

IMO, avoiding Razer is probably the better option; I have not been satisfied with any of their products.


----------



## luisfaria24

Thats not a big deal i think









I'm looking forward to zowie. But i can't decide until i get in touch with the g400


----------



## toekutr

*1. What's your grip style?*

Clawy-like. I really like the shape of the xornet/spawn and wmo, the g400 shape just feels off to me. It just isn't nearly as agile, and there's no grip so picking it up is awkward.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Well, my wmo was 400dpi and i used 2.2 in CS:S so about 45cm/360.
The xornet freaks out when I make fast swipes, while the wmo only slowed down a bit.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Give me every option.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Cool, but not necessary.

*5. What games do you play?*

Well I play every kind of game, but for shooters I play cs and it's variants mostly.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'd rather not have any, but if it's really minor, then maybe that's ok. I could be totally wrong, I've never used a mouse with prediction before
so I might hate it. Shape, lod, and tracking speed are more important.

*7. Lift off Distance*

I never thought lift off distance mattered, until I got the xornet. With firmware 75 it seems to be about 2mm, which is ok.
Less might be better but I'm alright with it now.

Are there any other good mice that are shaped like the wmo?
Should I just get a lighter colored mousepad?
What about the spawn?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toekutr*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Clawy-like. I really like the shape of the xornet/spawn and wmo, the g400 shape just feels off to me. It just isn't nearly as agile, and there's no grip so picking it up is awkward.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Well, my wmo was 400dpi and i used 2.2 in CS:S so about 45cm/360.
> The xornet freaks out when I make fast swipes, while the wmo only slowed down a bit.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> Give me every option.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Cool, but not necessary.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Well I play every kind of game, but for shooters I play cs and it's variants mostly.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'd rather not have any, but if it's really minor, then maybe that's ok. I could be totally wrong, I've never used a mouse with prediction before
> so I might hate it. Shape, lod, and tracking speed are more important.
> *7. Lift off Distance*
> I never thought lift off distance mattered, until I got the xornet. With firmware 75 it seems to be about 2mm, which is ok.
> Less might be better but I'm alright with it now.
> Are there any other good mice that are shaped like the wmo?
> Should I just get a lighter colored mousepad?
> What about the spawn?


I'd suggest any of the mice from Zowie or the Roccat Savu.
Here's a comparison of all the mice shapes that I made; try to make your decision on ergonomics from this, or go try one out in the store.


----------



## toekutr

Wow, thanks for the help.


----------



## zkyz

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-low sens

3. What's your maximum budget?
-

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Would like atleast 2/3 side buttons

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2 and firstperson shooters

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
I prefer a small mouse with light weight. I used a friends razer SC2 mouse the other day and loved the shape and feel of it, any opinions on this mouse? Or are there better mice with a similar shape and feel? I like having a good laser for the FPS gaming

here is my friends mouse http://www.razerzone.com/licensed-peripherals/starcraft-ii-razer-spectre/

I used to play with a grip less G9 the shape and feel was amazing however the side buttons were impossible to use and this got to me.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zkyz*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium-low sens
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> -
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Would like atleast 2/3 side buttons
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota 2 and firstperson shooters
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I prefer a small mouse with light weight. I used a friends razer SC2 mouse the other day and loved the shape and feel of it, any opinions on this mouse? Or are there better mice with a similar shape and feel? I like having a good laser for the FPS gaming
> here is my friends mouse http://www.razerzone.com/licensed-peripherals/starcraft-ii-razer-spectre/
> I used to play with a grip less G9 the shape and feel was amazing however the side buttons were impossible to use and this got to me.


Look at Art's photo two posts back and take your pick from the shapes of the mice there.
At a medium low sens you'll want an optical sensor, as the accel of 9500,9800 mice would still be noticeable.
CM Storm Spawn, DeathAdder, G400 all use perfect sensors, which seems like what you're looking for in a pure FPS mouse, so I'd suggest one of those.


----------



## blein

1. What's your grip style?
*Palm Grip*

2. What's your sensitivity?
Using 900dpi on my Old Deathadder (First Edition with 1800dpi, 6 years ago i buyed it :.. i think so)(Full Setting are *900DPI/Windows
6/11/1.0*

What's your maximum budget
*$100*

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*No* . Never used them

5. What games do you play
*Counter Strike Source*

6. Do you mind about prediction
*Dont care actualy







*

7.Other relevant information
*I used only 2 mouses ( Razer Diamodback) And (Razer Deathadder 1800dpi)*
I buyed them in same day, mby 6 or 5 years ago.. Diamonback is dead and i feel that Deathadder is dead too







So i *need to replace it.* First i thinked about bying Raizer Taipan, yesterday almost pressed the "buy" button, but i rethinked and went to read more reviews and i found this page and the razer synapse 2 thread , and it stop me from buying it.

8.Hard or cloth?
*Cloth* (Razer Goliathus)

9.Rough or smooth?
*Smooth*

10. Which size approximately?
*Diamondback* (Deathadder is too big for me, it took years to get used to it)

11. What's your maximum budget?
*$100*


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blein*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> *Palm Grip*
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Using 900dpi on my Old Deathadder (First Edition with 1800dpi, 6 years ago i buyed it :.. i think so)(Full Setting are *900DPI/Windows
> 6/11/1.0*
> 
> What's your maximum budget
> *$100*
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *No* . Never used them
> 5. What games do you play
> *Counter Strike Source*
> 6. Do you mind about prediction
> *Dont care actualy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 7.Other relevant information
> *I used only 2 mouses ( Razer Diamodback) And (Razer Deathadder 1800dpi)*
> I buyed them in same day, mby 6 or 5 years ago.. Diamonback is dead and i feel that Deathadder is dead too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i *need to replace it.* First i thinked about bying Raizer Taipan, yesterday almost pressed the "buy" button, but i rethinked and went to read more reviews and i found this page and the razer synapse 2 thread , and it stop me from buying it.
> 8.Hard or cloth?
> *Cloth* (Razer Goliathus)
> 9.Rough or smooth?
> *Smooth*
> 10. Which size approximately?
> *Diamondback* (Deathadder is too big for me, it took years to get used to it)
> 11. What's your maximum budget?
> *$100*


How about the Zowie EC2 Evo? It's designed for smaller hands.


----------



## hofy

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

1800dpi currently. I now have an Eyefinity setup and think something in the 3200-3600 range is in order. Optical only.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

~$60US

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

I can get by with 3, ideal would be 5, 7 would be acceptable but no more than that.

*5. What games do you play?*

Mainly FPS RTS RPG

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Indiferent

*7. Other relevant information:*

For the last 5 years I have used a Razer Diamondback 3G. It is the best mouse I have ever used. It still works great but I know its last will be coming sooner than later. Before it I used a Logitech 3G. I wasnt real happy with the laser so optical only from here on out. Also since I palm grip a larger heavier mouse is in order. I have a Razer Salmosa also and find it way too small and light. I only mention this as I was really liking the CM Storm Spawn until I found out how small/short it is. Also no Logitech as their new scroll wheels just plain SUCK.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hofy*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm grip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 1800dpi currently. I now have an Eyefinity setup and think something in the 3200-3600 range is in order. Optical only.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> ~$60US
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> I can get by with 3, ideal would be 5, 7 would be acceptable but no more than that.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS RTS RPG
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Indiferent
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> For the last 5 years I have used a Razer Diamondback 3G. It is the best mouse I have ever used. It still works great but I know its last will be coming sooner than later. Before it I used a Logitech 3G. I wasnt real happy with the laser so optical only from here on out. Also since I palm grip a larger heavier mouse is in order. I have a Razer Salmosa also and find it way too small and light. I only mention this as I was really liking the CM Storm Spawn until I found out how small/short it is. Also no Logitech as their new scroll wheels just plain SUCK.


How about the Zowie EC1 Evo? I've not heard anything bad about that.


----------



## hofy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How about the Zowie EC1 Evo? I've not heard anything bad about that.


Isnt it a little light on the weight and short on the dpi?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hofy*
> 
> Isnt it a little light on the weight and short on the dpi?


I forgot that it only went up to 2300 DPI. It also weighs 97g, which is a lot more than your salmosa.

There's also the deathadder and the Roccat Savu. The Deathadder is the heaviest of them.


----------



## hofy

You are correct Art. Looks like it is time to get out the metric rule and kitchen scale and do some weights and measures!
The Salmosa is a real light weight. Without cord I weigh it in at 72g. I wonder if the 104g on Razers site includes the cord?
Also their measurements are off. The Diamondback lists as 129mm long and I measure it at 125mm. The Solmosa lists 116mm long and measures 111mm.
Just for the heck of it I pulled out the old G3 and it measures 115mm.
I now have 3 mice on my short list. Razer DA BE, Cooler Master Recon (thanks to Glenn's side by side with the G3) the to be released Ninox Aurora and will still consider the Zowie as an outside choice.


----------



## Razor 116

1. What's your grip style?
*Palm*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*Medium*
3. What's your maximum budget?
*$100*
4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Two is fine, more are welcome but not required*
5. What games do you play?
*Mostly FPS but anything really*
6. Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes, would like no prediction*
7. Other relevant information:
*I would prefer a large mouse for my hands, also without any acceleration at all - or +*

Was looking at the Sensei RAW and Deathadder before I heard the many complaints of durability from the Deathadder and Razer in general. Was thinking of a G500 but it has positive acceleration and the G9x is too small form my hands. Thanks for any help/suggestions.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hofy*
> 
> You are correct Art. Looks like it is time to get out the metric rule and kitchen scale and do some weights and measures!
> The Salmosa is a real light weight. Without cord I weigh it in at 72g. I wonder if the 104g on Razers site includes the cord?
> Also their measurements are off. The Diamondback lists as 129mm long and I measure it at 125mm. The Solmosa lists 116mm long and measures 111mm.
> Just for the heck of it I pulled out the old G3 and it measures 115mm.
> I now have 3 mice on my short list. Razer DA BE, Cooler Master Recon (thanks to Glenn's side by side with the G3) the to be released Ninox Aurora and will still consider the Zowie as an outside choice.


I thought the salmosa was somewhere around 60g; I was a bit off.
I have never heard of the nixox aurora. What sensor does it have?

using this calculatior, I found, at 5760x1080 with a 150 degrees FOV, with 1800 DPI, you have a minimum sensitivity of 20 cm/360, and at 2300 DPI, you have a minumum of 16 cm/360.

http://www.mikofoto.net/ae/calculator2.php

You could probably be able to use a 2300 DPI mouse fine, unless you use a very high sensitivity.
Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two is fine, more are welcome but not required
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly FPS but anything really
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, would like no prediction
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I would prefer a large mouse for my hands, also without any acceleration at all - or +
> 
> Was looking at the Sensei RAW and Deathadder before I heard the many complaints of durability from the Deathadder and Razer in general. Was thinking of a G500 but it has positive acceleration and the G9x is too small form my hands. Thanks for any help/suggestions.


I would not recommend a LASER mouse, as most of them use the ADSN 9500/9800 sensor, which has acceleration. The Logitech G400 is a very good choice if you are palm gripping it; it has no acceleration or predictions, and very precise tracking up to 1800 DPI.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hofy*
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 1800dpi currently. I now have an Eyefinity setup and think something in the 3200-3600 range is in order. Optical only.


Most optical mice jitters a lot when they go past 3000DPI, so maybe it's not a good idea to get an optical mouse for high DPI usage, except maybe DeathAdder 2013 as I've read report saying that it does well even at higher DPIs.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Most optical mice jitters a lot when they go past 3000DPI, so maybe it's not a good idea to get an optical mouse for high DPI usage, except maybe DeathAdder 2013 as I've read report saying that it does well even at higher DPIs.


I'd wait a while before getting a mouse like that. Usually it takes them a while to work out all of the bugs.


----------



## hofy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I thought the salmosa was somewhere around 60g; I was a bit off.
> I have never heard of the nixox aurora. What sensor does it have?
> using this calculatior, I found, at 5760x1080 with a 150 degrees FOV, with 1800 DPI, you have a minimum sensitivity of 20 cm/360, and at 2300 DPI, you have a minumum of 16 cm/360.
> http://www.mikofoto.net/ae/calculator2.php
> You could probably be able to use a 2300 DPI mouse fine, unless you use a very high sensitivity.
> I would not recommend a LASER mouse, as most of them use the ADSN 9500/9800 sensor, which has acceleration. The Logitech G400 is a very good choice if you are palm gripping it; it has no acceleration or predictions, and very precise tracking up to 1800 DPI.


Art, I got 72g converting it from 2.5 ounces on a cheap postal scale so I am sure it is not 100% either.

Nixox Aurora aka BST's Gaming Mouse.

I do not know where to get the xcm/360 sensitivity for that calculator but my screen resolution is 5040 x 1050 (3, 20 inch monitors at 1680x1050 each) I know I can go out and grab a DA tomorrow locally so that will give me something to start with before I start ordering mice from Amazon/Newegg. I also have a bunch of reading to do so I can figure out more on sensors and sensitivity.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hofy*
> 
> Art, I got 72g converting it from 2.5 ounces on a cheap postal scale so I am sure it is not 100% either.
> Nixox Aurora aka BST's Gaming Mouse.
> I do not know where to get the xcm/360 sensitivity for that calculator but my screen resolution is 5040 x 1050 (3, 20 inch monitors at 1680x1050 each) I know I can go out and grab a DA tomorrow locally so that will give me something to start with before I start ordering mice from Amazon/Newegg. I also have a bunch of reading to do so I can figure out more on sensors and sensitivity.
> Thanks for the help.


Here's how you get distance for a 360.
Get a ruler
Go into a game
Measure how far it took to do a 360

I prefer somewhere around 13 inches per 360, personally.

IF you need to read about sensors, I would have recommended Skylit's guide, but that was being edited last I checked.


----------



## hofy

Thanks for the tip Art.
Well, I got 2 new mice in the house. I picked up a DA Black edition for $44 and a Abyssus for $30. The DA feels great in my hand. The Abyssus feels good too. Kind of strange since the Salmosa doesnt feel as good but is the same size and almost same body. Either way they both are as slippery as snail snot. I think I remember this about my Diamond back too. A little sweat and they should be as tacky.


----------



## Domino

Finally found a mouse that has a proper sensor (CM Storm spawn) to replace my old diamondback. Ugh! Finally! Years of searching and finally!


----------



## raidmaxGuy

1. What's your grip style?
Claw (i think), may be slightly fingertip but idk. I can provide a pic of how I hold my mouse if needed, just let me know
Here is the mouse im using....
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/23-126-069-06.jpg

2. What's your sensitivity?
Right now I am using a crappy MK300 mouse (2100 DPI IR optical). Not the least bit happy with it but it was something I had before I bought my rig. Therefore, I dont really know what would be best suited for me...

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150ish (xmas gift)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
'sniper' button would be a plus. Don't really think I would really utilize macros, though, but it wont bother me if they are there.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RPGs. (GTA, COD series, anything Bethesda, L4D, and some casual TF2 now and then)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
If i knew what that was I could tell you .-.

7. Other relevant information:
****MATTE FINISH (my hands sweat and stick to a glossy surface)****
Red LED lighting/customizable backlight, or none at all (no green/blue) May reconsider if someone shows me something I really like
If wired, braided cable

Two mice I kinda like are the R.A.T. 9 and the Naga Molten, but like I said, I haven't a clue what I should really get...

I can deal with a somewhat heavy mouse because I still use a Logitech Cordless Click! (released in 2003) on my second rig
Link


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw (i think), may be slightly fingertip but idk. I can provide a pic of how I hold my mouse if needed, just let me know
> Here is the mouse im using....
> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/23-126-069-06.jpg
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Right now I am using a crappy MK300 mouse (2100 DPI IR optical). Not the least bit happy with it but it was something I had before I bought my rig. Therefore, I dont really know what would be best suited for me...
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150ish (xmas gift)
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 'sniper' button would be a plus. Don't really think I would really utilize macros, though, but it wont bother me if they are there.
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RPGs. (GTA, COD series, anything Bethesda, L4D, and some casual TF2 now and then)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> If i knew what that was I could tell you .-.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> ****MATTE FINISH (my hands sweat and stick to a glossy surface)****
> Red LED lighting/customizable backlight, or none at all (no green/blue) May reconsider if someone shows me something I really like
> If wired, braided cable
> Two mice I kinda like are the R.A.T. 9 and the Naga Molten, but like I said, I haven't a clue what I should really get...
> I can deal with a somewhat heavy mouse because I still use a Logitech Cordless Click! (released in 2003) on my second rig
> Link


My personal suggestions are:
Any of the mice from Zowie
Logitech G400 (mine is great for claw grip)
Deathadder black edition (I could not claw grip mine)
Roccat savu

none have a sniper button, though. If you want one, you could go with the RAT 7, but it has some reliability issues.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> My personal suggestions are:
> Any of the mice from Zowie
> Logitech G400 (mine is great for claw grip)
> Deathadder black edition (I could not claw grip mine)
> Roccat savu
> none have a sniper button, though. If you want one, you could go with the RAT 7, but it has some reliability issues.


The driver of Savu let you configure buttons to sniper button, so it's good. I'm sure drivers from some of these mice let you configure sniper button as well (I can't tell coz I haven't used them)


----------



## Yamazaki

Hi, I'm looking for some more info on this mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254090

What sensor does it have?
Are there any noticeable bugs?
how good is it for Low Sens usage?

What kind of surfaces would be recommended for it,
i plan on buying a aluminum pad, just not sure how color would effect tracking.

Thanks.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yamazaki*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking for some more info on this mouse
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826254090
> What sensor does it have?
> Are there any noticeable bugs?
> how good is it for Low Sens usage?
> What kind of surfaces would be recommended for it,
> i plan on buying a aluminum pad, just not sure how color would effect tracking.
> Thanks.


Theron uses Avago A9500 laser sensor, any black hard pad should be good, and even cloth pads should work just fine (perhaps with lowered malfunction speed).

My G500 with the same sensor works well on a coated (black) aluminum pad.


----------



## Yamazaki

Thanks.
Was hoping it wouldn't have any problems with a black aluminum pad.









Just curious are there any other Mice you'd recommend around the same price.
Here's what I'm looking for:

1. What's your grip style?
*Palm.*
My hands actually sitting on the desk most of the time right now, since my mouse is too small.

2. What's your sensitivity?
usually low, but I'm not sure what my current mouses DPI is, i know its only 150Hz pole-rate though.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Trying to keep it around 30$, though maybe 50$ max

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes 2 or more.

5. What games do you play?
Everything, FPS mostly though, CS:S, CS:GO. mostly twitch shooters.

6. Do you *want* prediction?
Yes if its toggle-able, no if not.

7. Other relevant information:
I need something with some weight, Sturdy, wont break from a little rough usage. Customizable macros, colors and settings if possible.
something that looks cool would be nice, shaped similar the Theron, or Abyssus Mirror.

I've never really had a good looking mouse, which is why i really want to get one, and my current mouse is finally dieing.


----------



## m0bius

1. What's your grip style?
Depends on the situation, claw-clawpalm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Windows is 9/11

3. What's your maximum budget?
N/A

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I at least want 2 thumbs, DPI switch.

5. What games do you play?
Lately, RPG and MMO, FPS is making a comeback. Alot of history in twitch shooters.

6. Do you want prediction?
I usually turn stuff like this off, but if it works, it works.

7. Other relevant information:
I had a G5 with an iCEMAT for years, it started having random issues so I caught a R.A.T. 7 on sale. I didn't hate it, but my palm rested on the mousepad and would get sweat on it that would mess up the sensor, so I picked up a Goliathus and it got better. I always felt that I'd rather go back to something more G5-esque.

As for my grip, I switch mostly just for fps, I stop palming as much, otherwise I palm more often than not.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Depends on the situation, claw-clawpalm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Windows is 9/11
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> N/A
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I at least want 2 thumbs, DPI switch.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Lately, RPG and MMO, FPS is making a comeback. Alot of history in twitch shooters.
> 6. Do you want prediction?
> I usually turn stuff like this off, but if it works, it works.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I had a G5 with an iCEMAT for years, it started having random issues so I caught a R.A.T. 7 on sale. I didn't hate it, but my palm rested on the mousepad and would get sweat on it that would mess up the sensor, so I picked up a Goliathus and it got better. I always felt that I'd rather go back to something more G5-esque.
> As for my grip, I switch mostly just for fps, I stop palming as much, otherwise I palm more often than not.


G5-esque shape = G500. It also has a better sensor than that in G5 (except some people complain that it has random acceleration - not a concern unless you play fps games).

Also, I suggest that you turn your windows pointer speed to 6/11 and increase your DPI to your required speed instead. This avoids interpolated mouse path.


----------



## m0bius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> G5-esque shape = G500. It also has a better sensor than that in G5 (except some people complain that it has random acceleration - not a concern unless you play fps games).
> Also, I suggest that you turn your windows pointer speed to 6/11 and increase your DPI to your required speed instead. This avoids interpolated mouse path.


I forgot to point out that my R.A.T. 7 got ate by a cat. I'm using a $5 generic mouse at the moment, that's why my sensitivity is up, I can't even adjust dpi.

Like I said for gaming, I'm starting to get back into FPS, so what exactly is this random acceleration issue? Is it as simple as it sounds? I never really thought about acceleration in respect to a mouse before.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> I forgot to point out that my R.A.T. 7 got ate by a cat. I'm using a $5 generic mouse at the moment, that's why my sensitivity is up, I can't even adjust dpi.
> Like I said for gaming, I'm starting to get back into FPS, so what exactly is this random acceleration issue? Is it as simple as it sounds? I never really thought about acceleration in respect to a mouse before.


It's like if your DPI is 1000, and you move at various speed for 1 inch, the output would be different... say
0.5m/s -> 980
1m/s -> 1000
1.5m/s -> 1010
2m/s -> 1050
2.5m/s -> 1020

That's just a illustration of the "random acceleration" issue, not any scientific data. Moreover, I have no method to verify this problem, it's just something people on this forum believe that it exists.

What it affects - say when you turn 180 degree in one swipe to aim someone, that small discrepancy might make you miss a head in the first swipe.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> G5-esque shape = G500. It also has a better sensor than that in G5 (except some people complain that it has random acceleration - not a concern unless you play fps games).
> Also, I suggest that you turn your windows pointer speed to 6/11 and increase your DPI to your required speed instead. This avoids interpolated mouse path.


It has acceleration; this is a fact. It is somewhere around 5% acceleration, which will only be noticed by low sensitivity fans.

If you want no acceleration, you will have to go for an optical mouse or phillips twin eye sensor mouse.

My recommendations for optical mice are:
either of the mice by Zowie
Logitech G400
Deathadder
Roccat Savu

For a Phillips twin eye sensor, you can either go for some of the expensive razer mice or the RAT 7.


----------



## m0bius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It has acceleration; this is a fact. It is somewhere around 5% acceleration, which will only be noticed by low sensitivity fans.
> For a Phillips twin eye sensor, you can either go for some of the expensive razer mice or the RAT 7.


Define low sensitivity.


----------



## Bentz

400 dpi is considered low sens

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> Define low sensitivity.


Anything that requires you to move your mouse greater than 0.5m/s reasonably often. That's where the acceleration starts to take effect.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> My personal suggestions are:
> Any of the mice from Zowie
> Logitech G400 (mine is great for claw grip)
> Deathadder black edition (I could not claw grip mine)
> Roccat savu
> none have a sniper button, though. If you want one, you could go with the RAT 7, but it has some reliability issues.


While I do like the Savu somewhat.However, I believe that my system has power to USB even when off, and I read a review mentioning that this would cause the light to stay on all the time (lights drive me crazy when I am trying to sleep)..
I noticed most of these mice are on the lower end of my budget... Anything else you recommend thats perhaps between $80-$150?

I should mention that I kinda liked the way the Storm Sentinel II fit my hand...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*
> 
> While I do like the Savu somewhat.However, I believe that my system has power to USB even when off, and I read a review mentioning that this would cause the light to stay on all the time (lights drive me crazy when I am trying to sleep)..
> I noticed most of these mice are on the lower end of my budget... Anything else you recommend thats perhaps between $80-$150?
> I should mention that I kinda liked the way the Storm Sentinel II fit my hand...


Higher price does not mean a better mouse. higher priced mice usually have Avago A9500/9800 sensors or phillips twin eye sensors.
The Avago 9500/9800 has acceleration that you will probably notice if you like a low sensitivity, and the Phillips Twin Eye sensor does not like a lot of mouse pads, and the RAT 7, which has this sensor, has some reliability issues.
Unless you need a DPI above 1800, then you should go for one of the mice I suggested.

Some higher priced mice have sensors like the Cyprus ovation or the Avago 6090, but both of those have lower malfunction speeds than the optical mice I suggested. So they are also better for high sensitivity gamers.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Higher price does not mean a better mouse. higher priced mice usually have Avago A9500/9800 sensors or phillips twin eye sensors.
> The Avago 9500/9800 has acceleration that you will probably notice if you like a low sensitivity, and the Phillips Twin Eye sensor does not like a lot of mouse pads, and the RAT 7, which has this sensor, has some reliability issues.
> Unless you need a DPI above 1800, then you should go for one of the mice I suggested.
> Some higher priced mice have sensors like the Cyprus ovation or the Avago 6090, but both of those have lower malfunction speeds than the optical mice I suggested. So they are also better for high sensitivity gamers.


That was kinda what I started to think after a while..

Idk I guess I really don't know where to start, considering that I've never had a nice mouse before.

I want to start looking at pads but I havent even narrowed down my choices in mice. I feel like I will want a hard pad because right now I use some old cheapie with a plastic surface. Not against cloth, though, I use both.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*
> 
> That was kinda what I started to think after a while..
> Idk I guess I really don't know where to start, considering that I've never had a nice mouse before.
> I want to start looking at pads but I havent even narrowed down my choices in mice. I feel like I will want a hard pad because right now I use some old cheapie with a plastic surface. Not against cloth, though, I use both.


For mousepads, you should get whatever is the most comfortable one for you. I have an XFX warpad, which clamps to the edge of the table, so that your arm isn't dragging on the corner of the table, and I find it much more comfortable than any other surface.

The advantage to cloth pads is that they provide more friction, so you get more control over your mouse, and this is more important when you are using a lower sensitivity, IMO. Phillips twin eye sensors have trouble on a lot of cloth mousepads. LASER mice also have a lower max tracking speed on cloth pads.

The advantage of hard pads is that they have less friction, which lets your mouse glide across them more easily. I'd strongly recommend one for a Phillips twin eye sensor mouse.


----------



## m0bius

So in the end, I really got attached to my G5 feel;

I play now a healthy mix of fps, mmo, rpg. Increasingly more heavy on twitching for fps.

I have used from 1750 dpi up to 3000dpi , so random acceleration issues don't appear to be something I would notice, does this change what would you recommend?

I'm also looking at a new surface, so recommendations would be great.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> So in the end, I really got attached to my G5 feel;
> I play now a healthy mix of fps, mmo, rpg. Increasingly more heavy on twitching for fps.
> I have used from 1750 dpi up to 3000dpi , so random acceleration issues don't appear to be something I would notice, does this change what would you recommend?
> I'm also looking at a new surface, so recommendations would be great.


The G5 uses the Avago A6006 sensor, which doesn't have any acceleration issues; it does have a relatively low max tracking speed, though.

If your G5 is working for you, you don't really need a change. You could go for a Logitech G400 if you want a change, but it's probably going to be the exact same at 1800 DPI.

What kind of surface are you looking for? If you want a cloth pad, I find that the XFX warpad is very comfortable with it's arm wrest.


----------



## m0bius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G5 uses the Avago A6006 sensor, which doesn't have any acceleration issues; it does have a relatively low max tracking speed, though.
> If your G5 is working for you, you don't really need a change. You could go for a Logitech G400 if you want a change, but it's probably going to be the exact same at 1800 DPI.
> What kind of surface are you looking for? If you want a cloth pad, I find that the XFX warpad is very comfortable with it's arm wrest.


The G5 I loved died a long time ago due to overuse. I caught a good deal on a R.A.T. 7 at a BestBuy for $75. I ended up handing off my iCEMAT to a friend and picking up a Goliathus because the R.A.T. 7 ABSOLUTELY hated any sweat my palm might have left on the iCEMAT.

R.A.T. 7 Died in a huge coffee incident, (Cat I got for my wife for christmas...) and I'm stuck with a $5 generic mouse. I think I would rather go back to a G5-esque mouse over replacing the R.A.T. 7.

I'm stuck between the G400 for the lack of acceleration and the G500 because I loved the grip the G5 gave me, I'm stuck because I haven't looked at mice in many, many years... I have historically used a MINIMUM of 1750 DPI for my FPS gaming which I split with everything else. (I need a DPI switch.)

I'm completely open to whatever surfaces people would like to recommend. I loved my iCEMAT, I really wish I still had it, but at the same time, I can't say that I've been disappointed by the Goliathus Control edition I picked up....


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> I have historically used a MINIMUM of 1750 DPI for my FPS gaming which I split with everything else. (I need a DPI switch.)


Can you live with 1600DPI from G400? If not, G500 let you adjust to 1800DPI or up and probably suits you more.


----------



## m0bius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Can you live with 1600DPI from G400? If not, G500 let you adjust to 1800DPI or up and probably suits you more.


I don't know, that's cutting it pretty close...

Ok, what if I said I was fairly convinced on a G500? What would everyone say then?

I could really use a new pad.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0bius*
> 
> The G5 I loved died a long time ago due to overuse. I caught a good deal on a R.A.T. 7 at a BestBuy for $75. I ended up handing off my iCEMAT to a friend and picking up a Goliathus because the R.A.T. 7 ABSOLUTELY hated any sweat my palm might have left on the iCEMAT.
> R.A.T. 7 Died in a huge coffee incident, (Cat I got for my wife for christmas...) and I'm stuck with a $5 generic mouse. I think I would rather go back to a G5-esque mouse over replacing the R.A.T. 7.
> I'm stuck between the G400 for the lack of acceleration and the G500 because I loved the grip the G5 gave me, I'm stuck because I haven't looked at mice in many, many years... I have historically used a MINIMUM of 1750 DPI for my FPS gaming which I split with everything else. (I need a DPI switch.)
> I'm completely open to whatever surfaces people would like to recommend. I loved my iCEMAT, I really wish I still had it, but at the same time, I can't say that I've been disappointed by the Goliathus Control edition I picked up....


The G400 appears to be the exact same shape as the G5, so if you liked the shape of the G5, then the G400 would suit you. The only issues I have with the G400 are the scroll wheel and the cable. I wish they would make a mouse with the A3090 sensor that was on the same level as some of their LASER mice.
Quote:


> Can you live with 1600DPI from G400? If not, G500 let you adjust to 1800DPI or up and probably suits you more.


The native DPI steps on the G400 are 800, 1800, 3600, and probably 400. So you can use up to 1800 with no interpolation or significant jitteriness.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G400 appears to be the exact same shape as the G5, so if you liked the shape of the G5, then the G400 would suit you. The only issues I have with the G400 are the scroll wheel and the cable. I wish they would make a mouse with the A3090 sensor that was on the same level as some of their LASER mice.
> The native DPI steps on the G400 are 800, 1800, 3600, and probably 400. So you can use up to 1800 with no interpolation or significant jitteriness.


Thanks, so I was wrong about it being 1600DPI lol


----------



## kotakueuro

1. What's your grip style?
Claw on current mouse. Have palmed before on a DeathAdder.
2. What's your sensitivity?
1400 DPI, medium high sens in game.
3. What's your maximum budget?
No real budget, but cheaper is better. Everything's usually on sale on NCIX or NewEgg anyway so it really isn't a problem.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Definitely yes. Don't want a Naga but a couple more than the usual 2 side buttons would be a definite requirement.
5. What games do you play?
LoL and some MMOs from time to time. Haven't played competitive multiplayer FPS in a fairly long time.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, don't want any angle snapping or correction or anything.
7. Other relevant information:
Has to be ergonomic. Onboard memory would be a huge plus. If it's wireless, I'll be using it wired all the time, so that doesn't really matter. Don't really care about the LOD, as I don't typically lift the mouse, but adjustable LOD would be a nice feature to have. If it has LEDs, they have to be RGB customizable. I hate the standard green/blue LEDs and I don't like LEDs turned off. So either RGB lighting or none at all. Cord has to be sized well enough to fit inside a mouse bungee, although I doubt that'll be a problem. On a side note, also trying to stay away from Razer, as only 2/5 of their products that I've purchased are still working, one being a mouse pad. I might reconsider if they have a really outstanding mouse. Currently using a Mionix Ensis 320 Luna as the mousepad.

Thanks!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw on current mouse. Have palmed before on a DeathAdder.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1400 DPI, medium high sens in game.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No real budget, but cheaper is better. Everything's usually on sale on NCIX or NewEgg anyway so it really isn't a problem.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Definitely yes. Don't want a Naga but a couple more than the usual 2 side buttons would be a definite requirement.
> 5. What games do you play?
> LoL and some MMOs from time to time. Haven't played competitive multiplayer FPS in a fairly long time.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, don't want any angle snapping or correction or anything.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Has to be ergonomic. Onboard memory would be a huge plus. If it's wireless, I'll be using it wired all the time, so that doesn't really matter. Don't really care about the LOD, as I don't typically lift the mouse, but adjustable LOD would be a nice feature to have. If it has LEDs, they have to be RGB customizable. I hate the standard green/blue LEDs and I don't like LEDs turned off. So either RGB lighting or none at all. Cord has to be sized well enough to fit inside a mouse bungee, although I doubt that'll be a problem. On a side note, also trying to stay away from Razer, as only 2/5 of their products that I've purchased are still working, one being a mouse pad. I might reconsider if they have a really outstanding mouse. Currently using a Mionix Ensis 320 Luna as the mousepad.
> Thanks!


How about a G400; it's the best for claw grip, in my experience.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How about a G400; it's the best for claw grip, in my experience.


Pretty sure the native steps on the G400 aren't very good for me; 800 is too low and 1800 is too high.
Not sure if going off the native steps is a good idea, tried doing that on my really old DeathAdder and the precision was a little off compared to when on the native steps. That's the main problem I have with optical mice. I considered the Savu but again the native steps weren't really at my dpi range.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> For mousepads, you should get whatever is the most comfortable one for you. I have an XFX warpad, which clamps to the edge of the table, so that your arm isn't dragging on the corner of the table, and I find it much more comfortable than any other surface.
> The advantage to cloth pads is that they provide more friction, so you get more control over your mouse, and this is more important when you are using a lower sensitivity, IMO. Phillips twin eye sensors have trouble on a lot of cloth mousepads. LASER mice also have a lower max tracking speed on cloth pads.
> The advantage of hard pads is that they have less friction, which lets your mouse glide across them more easily. I'd strongly recommend one for a Phillips twin eye sensor mouse.


Ok, I think I might have eliminated my choice down to the G400 or the Savu, I know the G400 is a solid mouse but I dont know as much about the Savu, but it's overall shape appeals to me more... The Savu is more similar in curvature to my old mouse than the G400. The XTD is about the same shape and I like it as well.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> Pretty sure the native steps on the G400 aren't very good for me; 800 is too low and 1800 is too high.
> Not sure if going off the native steps is a good idea, tried doing that on my really old DeathAdder and the precision was a little off compared to when on the native steps. That's the main problem I have with optical mice. I considered the Savu but again the native steps weren't really at my dpi range.


If you go off of the native DPI steps, then it uses interpolation to achieve those DPI levels. Couldn't you just set it to 1800 DPI and adjust the sensitivity in games to fit you? The G400 tracks pretty well at 1800 DPI,


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toekutr*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Clawy-like. I really like the shape of the xornet/spawn and wmo, the g400 shape just feels off to me. It just isn't nearly as agile, and there's no grip so picking it up is awkward.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Well, my wmo was 400dpi and i used 2.2 in CS:S so about 45cm/360.
> The xornet freaks out when I make fast swipes, while the wmo only slowed down a bit.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> Give me every option.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Cool, but not necessary.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Well I play every kind of game, but for shooters I play cs and it's variants mostly.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'd rather not have any, but if it's really minor, then maybe that's ok. I could be totally wrong, I've never used a mouse with prediction before
> so I might hate it. Shape, lod, and tracking speed are more important.
> *7. Lift off Distance*
> I never thought lift off distance mattered, until I got the xornet. With firmware 75 it seems to be about 2mm, which is ok.
> Less might be better but I'm alright with it now.
> Are there any other good mice that are shaped like the wmo?
> Should I just get a lighter colored mousepad?
> What about the spawn?


Have a look at the Zowie AM. It's a small and light ambidextrous mouse with a solid sensor. It comes in 3 different texture types, AM (full rubber) AM-GS (glossy sides, rubber on top) and AM-FG (glossy all over, is also white).


----------



## Paradigm84

Got a Mionix NAOS 5000 due on Monday.


----------



## avalonmabi

Quick question. For typical mice that come bundled with computers what's the typical dpi on them?


----------



## Phos

Probably 800. You can use enotus mouse test to find out what yours is.


----------



## King Louie

1. What's your grip style? Palm, right-handed.

2. What's your sensitivity? Mid to mid-high.

3. What's your maximum budget? No limit.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes (not as many as a Razer Naga though).

5. What games do you play? TF2, SC2.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Never tried. Ideally, option to turn it on/off.

7. Other relevant information: wired, robust/strong build, no Razer.

Many thanks,


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *King Louie*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm, right-handed.
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Mid to mid-high.
> 3. What's your maximum budget? No limit.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes (not as many as a Razer Naga though).
> 5. What games do you play? TF2, SC2.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Never tried. Ideally, option to turn it on/off.
> 7. Other relevant information: wired, robust/strong build, no Razer.
> Many thanks,


If you don't care about accel then I'd go for either a Naos 5000 or the older Ikari Laser, they're both incredibly comfortable palm mice.
The Naos has a few software problems atm but Mionix said they're fixing them so we'll see.
The G400 is pretty good for palm, and it has a perfect sensor, so if you don't want acceleration then this is the mouse to get.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> The G400 is pretty good for palm, and it has a perfect sensor, so if you don't want acceleration then this is the mouse to get.


The G400 does very well up to 1800 DPI, but it's not that great past that point, but you would have to be on a crazy sensitivity to need more than 1800 DPI.


----------



## majnu

I use the G700 which has been enhanced with Logitech Gaming Software (LGS) 8.4.0.

I was going to buy the G600 MMO mouse for the sniper assist button, as that was the only feature missing. But now with the G700 I'm running a script on my FPS gaming profiles so that when I ADS using the RMB the dpi switches to 1000 from 2350 which is what I run around with.

Apart from the **** poor battery life, I love this mouse. It's comfertable for right handed gamers, has plenty of buttons and tracks well on my surface.

For G series owners who haven't upgraded to LGS you should try it out and do away with that 90's Set point GUI.

I give it a 8.5/10, would have given it a 9 if it wasn't for the battery life.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> I use the G700 which has been enhanced with Logitech Gaming Software (LGS) 8.4.0.
> I was going to buy the G600 MMO mouse for the sniper assist button, as that was the only feature missing. But now with the G700 I'm running a script on my FPS gaming profiles so that when I ADS using the RMB the dpi switches to 1000 from 2350 which is what I run around with.
> Apart from the **** poor battery life, I love this mouse. It's comfertable for right handed gamers, has plenty of buttons and tracks well on my surface.
> For G series owners who haven't upgraded to LGS you should try it out and do away with that 90's Set point GUI.
> I give it a 8.5/10, would have given it a 9 if it wasn't for the battery life.


Good to hear that it was upgraded to LGS, much more reason to buy the G700 now. I really like the extra button placement on the mouse, esp the little wedges on the side.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Anyone have any last thoughts before I pop on the Roccat Savu??


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*
> 
> Anyone have any last thoughts before I pop on the Roccat Savu??


savu really good choice for your specifications, it's a really nice mouse with RBG lighting and the easyshift is actually really useful. enjoy.


----------



## King Louie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> If you don't care about accel then I'd go for either a Naos 5000 or the older Ikari Laser, they're both incredibly comfortable palm mice.
> The Naos has a few software problems atm but Mionix said they're fixing them so we'll see.
> The G400 is pretty good for palm, and it has a perfect sensor, so if you don't want acceleration then this is the mouse to get.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G400 does very well up to 1800 DPI, but it's not that great past that point, but you would have to be on a crazy sensitivity to need more than 1800 DPI.


Thank you for your replies.

Among the Naos, the Ikari and the G400, which one has the sturdiest/strongest build?

I currently have a Razer Mamba 2012, I had to exchange it twice within a year because the right/left buttons lost their bounce and started to make strange clicking noises..


----------



## Flaumig Shamane

1. What's your grip style? (Kinda palming lol)

2. What's your sensitivity? twitchy

3. What's your maximum budget? working on this

4. Do you want additional buttons? always

5. What games do you play? CS:GO, NS2, ForsakenRO, DDO (Mostly fps though on comp.

6. Do you mind about prediction? note sure (usually using raw input while playing)

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: Righthanded, heavy

I was thinking about getting one of the R.A.T Cyborg mice because it has the thingy for your thumb and there is one that has a pinkie holder as well. I'm pretty much looking for something for larger hands really.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *King Louie*
> 
> Thank you for your replies.
> Among the Naos, the Ikari and the G400, which one has the sturdiest/strongest build?
> I currently have a Razer Mamba 2012, I had to exchange it twice within a year because the right/left buttons lost their bounce and started to make strange clicking noises..


They're all built pretty well, the G400 is probably built the best as Logitech tends to make products with great build. My friend's MX518 is still going strong after a few years.


----------



## King Louie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> They're all built pretty well, the G400 is probably built the best as Logitech tends to make products with great build. My friend's MX518 is still going strong after a few years.


Thanks.
Why the Logitech G400 over the G9?


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flaumig Shamane*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? (Kinda palming lol)
> 2. What's your sensitivity? twitchy
> 3. What's your maximum budget? working on this
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? always
> 5. What games do you play? CS:GO, NS2, ForsakenRO, DDO (Mostly fps though on comp.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? note sure (usually using raw input while playing)
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: Righthanded, heavy
> I was thinking about getting one of the R.A.T Cyborg mice because it has the thingy for your thumb and there is one that has a pinkie holder as well. I'm pretty much looking for something for larger hands really.


RAT7's pretty heavy and it does have the sniper button, but Cyborg quality control is kinda shoddy, someone I know had to RMA his RAT5 three times before he got a working one. The Corsiar M60 looks like a pretty good option for you, you won't notice the sensor acceleration as a twitch gamer, it's pretty cheap and it also has the sniper button on the side.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> They're all built pretty well, the G400 is probably built the best as Logitech tends to make products with great build. My friend's MX518 is still going strong after a few years.


They cheapened up the G400 a bit. It's not the best feeling mouse, but it still feels decent. If you get a good enough deal, you could get two for the price of a G9x, so build quality doesn't matter that much.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *King Louie*
> 
> Thanks.
> Why the Logitech G400 over the G9?


Main reason would be grip, I haven't used a G400 but I have owned the original G9 and I have to say the grip was really forced for me, I just couldn't get used to it. The "no sweat" side grips on the G9 were also really terrible, they rub off really fast leaving no grip at all really. The new G9x also has acceleration issues, while the G400 doesn't.


----------



## Flaumig Shamane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> RAT7's pretty heavy and it does have the sniper button, but Cyborg quality control is kinda shoddy, someone I know had to RMA his RAT5 three times before he got a working one. The Corsiar M60 looks like a pretty good option for you, you won't notice the sensor acceleration as a twitch gamer, it's pretty cheap and it also has the sniper button on the side.


Alright that is good to know about the cyborgs. I like them because of the thumb and pinkie holders they have but spending that kinda of money when they have quality controls issues is definitely a big turn off. The vengance is looking pretty sexy will check it out. Any thoughts on if it'll work for bigger hands well? (now mind you i'm using a MS wireless 1000 mouse)


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flaumig Shamane*
> 
> Alright that is good to know about the cyborgs. I like them because of the thumb and pinkie holders they have but spending that kinda of money when they have quality controls issues is definitely a big turn off. The vengance is looking pretty sexy will check it out. Any thoughts on if it'll work for bigger hands well? (now mind you i'm using a MS wireless 1000 mouse)


Well, it works for claw grip only. Fingertip if you hand is big enough. I don't think its shape is comfortable for anyone to palm it.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> Well, it works for claw grip only. Fingertip if you hand is big enough. I don't think its shape is comfortable for anyone to palm it.


Yeah it's a smaller mouse, so it's definitely best suited for claw grippers. It has the little raise at the back that lets you palm it, but it's not a great palm mouse for people with bigger hands.
The G400 and DeathAdder are both suited to bigger hands, esp the DeathAdder, but they lack the sniper button that you're looking for so you might have to compromise.
EDIT: you may not want the G400 actually, as you are a twitch gamer and when you get above 1800 dpi it's pretty jittery from what others have said. You might wanna get the DeathAdder 2013 which allows for a dpi of 6400.


----------



## Paradigm84

Look what just arrived:


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotakueuro*
> 
> Good to hear that it was upgraded to LGS, much more reason to buy the G700 now. I really like the extra button placement on the mouse, esp the little wedges on the side.


The only downsides I have with the mouse are:

1. The additional buttons should have a clicking sound.
2 Battery life.

If there was ever to be a revision to this mouse then I hope they can address those issues plus add some illuminated buttons. A dedicated thumb or pinky finger button for sniper assist would be great too.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Looking at mousepads right now... I have always liked the Vespula and the warpad, not sure what would be more suitable for a Savu


----------



## raidmaxGuy

sorry double


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*
> 
> Looking at mousepads right now... I have always liked the Vespula and the warpad, not sure what would be more suitable for a Savu


Whichever one looks more comfortable would be the way to go IMO, but cloth mats are generally better for optical sensors than hard ones.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Whichever one looks more comfortable would be the way to go IMO, but cloth mats are generally better for optical sensors than hard ones.


Cloth is definitely the way to go; cloth mats last way longer than hard mats, are more comfortable, and are again generally better for optical mice.


----------



## Atham

1. I think I am using the palm grip

2. ??

3. 50-60€

4. Not necessarily

5. PlanetSide 2, TF2, a little bit of LoL and Dota 2, DC universe Online

6.??

7. I am right handed and the distance from wrist to middle finger is about 19cm.

Shop I will be buying stuff from: www.alza.sk

I am considering the Razer DeathAdder not Black edition, but I am not sure about it. I want something comfortable as well. And I cannot test them out. Is there a big difference between the black edition and the non-black one, because the black edition is not available.


----------



## zOmbiefied

1. palm and claw- depends on the mouse. i like both
2. low-mid but more towards low
3. no budget but i wouldn't mind if i can save some bucks








4. dpi switch and side buttons for internet browser are enough
5. mostly FPS and DotA
6. nope
7. i really like the shape of the sensei but i'm afraid of the accel, is it really that bad? had a mx518, razer copperhead and i'm playing with g9 at the moment-on a razer sphex pad. would like to change to a cloth pad, can you recommend something? kinda like the qck, is it good?


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zOmbiefied*
> 
> 1. palm and claw- depends on the mouse. i like both
> 2. low-mid but more towards low
> 3. no budget but i wouldn't mind if i can save some bucks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. dpi switch and side buttons for internet browser are enough
> 5. mostly FPS and DotA
> 6. nope
> 7. i really like the shape of the sensei but i'm afraid of the accel, is it really that bad? had a mx518, razer copperhead and i'm playing with g9 at the moment-on a razer sphex pad. would like to change to a cloth pad, can you recommend something? kinda like the qck, is it good?


The accel on sensei is within 5 percent, most people probably won't notice it even at low dpi. if you're set on getting a cloth pad though, don't bother, the ADNS9500s have problems on a lot of cloth pads. I'd go for a Zowie AM if you like the sensei shape, it uses a problem free sensor and is overall a good mouse.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> 1. I think I am using the palm grip
> 2. ??
> 3. 50-60€
> 4. Not necessarily
> 5. PlanetSide 2, TF2, a little bit of LoL and Dota 2, DC universe Online
> 6.??
> 7. I am right handed and the distance from wrist to middle finger is about 19cm.
> Shop I will be buying stuff from: www.alza.sk
> I am considering the Razer DeathAdder not Black edition, but I am not sure about it. I want something comfortable as well. And I cannot test them out. Is there a big difference between the black edition and the non-black one, because the black edition is not available.


I'd just go for the DeathAdder 2013, the only reason to get the Black edition over the regular DeathAdder was the fact that it had rubber side grips opposed to the glossy ones on the regular DeathAdder. The 2013 has rubber side grips anyways, so if you're set on the DeathAdder then go for that; the general release consensus has been very positive.
Edit: apparently your shop doesn't have the 2013 in stock yet, if you have to buy it from there and you need it real soon then I suppose the 3.5G is your only bet. Don't worry though, it's a great mouse.


----------



## avalonmabi

So I bought the logitech g400 just not. 27.99 at bestbuy. I actually find it kinda big for my hand although I might get use to it. If not what alternatives do I have. Here is my original post:

1. What's your grip style?
Mostly palm, sometimes claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
low to medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just 2 to 5 extra button should be sufficient

5. What games do you play?
GW2. SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really.

7. Other relevant information:
I will use the mouse mostly for gaming ad I play GW2 the most. I do want a mouse with a cord. The current mice i'm looking into buying are the razer deathadder 3.5 with blue lighting vs logitech g400 vs logitech g500. Will probably need to get a mouse pad to since I just use a generic mouse pad. I'm looking into the razer team liquid mouse just because I watch a lot of SC2.


----------



## kotakueuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avalonmabi*
> 
> So I bought the logitech g400 just not. 27.99 at bestbuy. I actually find it kinda big for my hand although I might get use to it. If not what alternatives do I have. Here is my original post:
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mostly palm, sometimes claw
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low to medium
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just 2 to 5 extra button should be sufficient
> 5. What games do you play?
> GW2. SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I will use the mouse mostly for gaming ad I play GW2 the most. I do want a mouse with a cord. The current mice i'm looking into buying are the razer deathadder 3.5 with blue lighting vs logitech g400 vs logitech g500. Will probably need to get a mouse pad to since I just use a generic mouse pad. I'm looking into the razer team liquid mouse just because I watch a lot of SC2.


I'd go for the Kova+ actually, it's a small mouse (but not too small like the Orochi) and it has a good performing optical sensor. You also get the button duplicating easy shift so there's your extra buttons. It does have prediction though, but you said you don't mind it so that's fine.
Edit: Savu's a better choice then the Kova overall, but I'm worried that you'll find it too big. Look up the dimensions though and decide that for yourself. It's sensor is much better than the Kova's and it's built better too.


----------



## EliteReplay

Well i have to say, that the Steelseries Kinzu V2 is a very good mouse, if you play at 800DPI which is enough for 1080p gaming
its very light and small as well, fit any normal hands, not big ones tho... i had the deathadder 3.5 and i was a pain in my hands after 1years using it (to big and heavy)
and all of that is gone after i got the Kinzu V2


----------



## zOmbiefied

i also threw an eye on the deathadder but i'm afraid the switches are to soft for me. can someone tell me how the click of a deathadder black adeition feels like compared to a g9 oder razer copperhead? just to get a slight idea.


----------



## Paradigm84

Loving my Mionix Naos 5000, it feels very well built and the shape is almost perfect for my hand. It also works great at even the high DPI that I play at.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Whichever one looks more comfortable would be the way to go IMO, but cloth mats are generally better for optical sensors than hard ones.


I have a Savu and a Vespula dark mat due in on Saturday, might sneak it out of the box and use it before Christmas lol.


----------



## D2234

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
3k DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
Preferably below 130.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes.

5. What games do you play?
LOL/SC2/FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what this means.

7. Other relevant information:
I've been using the Razer Naga Hex and the glossy grip is starting to make me a bit mad. It's terrible grip. I used to play MMOs so I liked the mechanical buttons, but now I mostly play LOL. I've been mainly looking at the Deathadder 2013, Kinzu, Kana, Sensei, and Ikari. Which of these are best for claw (and tracking)? I also use a Qck Heavy if that helps (Cloth Mousepad).

Also - I'm not sure I would miss the ring finger rest. I noticed after I went to the Hex that my comfort increased due to not having to hang my ring finger and pinky off the side.


----------



## plumcakk

1. What's your grip style?
Palm for day-to-day, Fingertip/almost claw but the fingers aren't as arched when there's action.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium; not quite sure. I'm at about 2400dpi, speed "2" with accel "1" for G500.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Will wait for sale, but <80CAD?

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes.

5. What games do you play?
GW2, L4D2, CS:GO, etc. Mix of most genres.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't think it matters too much to me. my own error > prediction

7. Other relevant information:
Been using a g500 and am quite happy with it, although the lazer positioning took a while to get used to. Its finally slowly dying and I want to try something new.
I think I prefer bigger mice, since the g500 is pretty comfortable for me. WMO is comfortable too. I like placing ring and little finger on the side of the mouse.

I've been thinking about the Zowie EC1 since it felt really comfortable through the plastic at the store. Roccat Savu is on sale too, but I'm afraid its a bit small.

Any ideas?


----------



## claudekennilol

Right now I've got a Steel Series WoW Mouse (the first one) and I really like it (not love, but like) that is hooked up to my desktop. And I've got a couple of MX 518s that are wonderful--one for my laptop and another that I've got at work.

The thing I like about my WoW mouse is that it has so many buttons that are all programmable. I love that it's huge. I love the thumb rest. What I hate about it is that the metallic paint has worn off of where my pointer and index finger and now it's just the ugly bare white plastic. Also, the right mouse button randomly quit working from normal wear and tear 360 days (I don't get mad and beat on my peripherals and think it's just absurd that some people react that way (sorry if that offends anyone)). Luckily, it was still covered in the 1 year warranty. So the paint on the first one wore through within that 1 year, I've had the new replacement ever since and it looks much worse now (between the two I've had it since it first came out, I don't recall the specifiic date). I also don't like the d-pad for the thumb, I usually have all four directions programmed to the same thing since it's hard to get to the right one quickly when they're all attached. In that regard, I really like how the Steel Series Wow Cataclysm mouse has separate buttons for the thumb, but it's ridiculously expensive now as it's not manufactured and I don't want to buy it because I'm wary of the paint being super bad quality again.

I love my mx 518s, when I use them, I usually don't realize that I don't have all of the bonus buttons on it (though I refuse to use any mouse now with less than 5 buttons). Though I do notice it when I play WoW on my laptop. For the most part, I play more casual games when I'm on my laptop. Also, I haven't worn through the material on either of them and the I've had one for almost 10 years.

So that's my background, I'm looking into replacing my WoW mouse with something that still has extra buttons and doesn't have crappy (said mildly) paint. More info, the Razor Naga isn't an option because I don't want a num-pad under my thumb, I want the buttons laid out, and I like having buttons 4 and 5 at the top of the side--not up next to my index finger like the naga (I'm assuming those are button 4 and 5, I've only seen pictures).

So there's a bunch of information, let's see if you mouse gurus know of a solution that can satisfy my specific tastes.

1. What's your grip style? No idea. As I'm sitting here at my work on my mx 518 it feels like claw, but I doubt that's how I grip my wow mouse since it's so huge.

2. What's your sensitivity? 1600 dpi on my mx518 (its max) 3200 on wow mouse (its max) and I switch to min dpi when shooting at long range (but only for single player games, don't play shooter games online on my pc)

3. What's your maximum budget? negligible

4. Do you want additional buttons? most definitely

5. What games do you play? all kinds. for what the mouse matters for, mostly MMOs, RPGs, and uh, idk, a variety of FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction? don't even know what that is.


----------



## reh65

Hi all!

I'm looking for a new mouse for my PC. I don't play games but I use my computer quite a lot for work. I think all the mice I've bought in the last few years had to be trashed because the mouse wheel button became defective (it was either unresponsive or it double clicked).

Maybe my usage patterns are especially hard on that button, but to me, t looks like a lot of manufacturers put cheaper micro-switches for the middle click.

*So, I'm looking for a mouse with a long lasting middle click micro-switch.*

Preferably, this mouse would be wireless (with long battery life), under 60 $, somewhat small (claw grip) with an ambidextrous shape, and driverless. Everything else doesn't really matter... I just want a well-made, reliable mouse, with _really_ durable micro-switches.

Any Ideas?


----------



## Tator Tot

Currently using: Logitech G500

1. What's your grip style?
Claw / Palm hybrid. I grip with my fingers but part of my fingers / palm rest on the G500. More would rest if it was larger and didn't have as much of a drop on it's backside.

2. What's your sensitivity?
5600 DPI w/ minimum in-game sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I would like them, 3 at least; but they can be dropped if needed.

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO, Planetside 2, Tribes Ascend, and many single player games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Hate it

7. Other relevant information:

I don't like ambidextrous mice

I like heavy mice


----------



## Bentz

You could go with a g400. It has a perfect sensor, fits a palm/claw grip, and is fairly heavy. You might have to get used to a lower dpi, but that's easily remedied by bumping up in-game sensitivity.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Currently using: Logitech G500
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Claw / Palm hybrid. I grip with my fingers but part of my fingers / palm rest on the G500. More would rest if it was larger and didn't have as much of a drop on it's backside.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 5600 DPI w/ minimum in-game sensitivity.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Doesn't matter
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I would like them, 3 at least; but they can be dropped if needed.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> CS:GO, Planetside 2, Tribes Ascend, and many single player games.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Hate it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I don't like ambidextrous mice
> I like heavy mice


I don't think you will find much larger. The SS sensei doesn't have as much of a drop on the backside, so it might be worth getting.
Also, why are you playing at incredibly high DPI with the lowest possible sensitivity? You only need as much DPI as will prevent skipping, otherwise it adds unneeded jitter.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I don't think you will find much larger. The SS sensei doesn't have as much of a drop on the backside, so it might be worth getting.
> Also, why are you playing at incredibly high DPI with the lowest possible sensitivity? You only need as much DPI as will prevent skipping, otherwise it adds unneeded jitter.


Exactly why I am.

The surface I'm using is also incredibly old, the higher DPI tends to work better because some games don't feel right with the higher sensitivity.

The best way I can put it, is that with high sensitivity; a flick of the wrist feels less controlled vs high DPI & low sensitivity.

It may be, because of the mat I have.

It could be the mouse; don't really know enough to make a judgement on that one.

The mat is a very old Playstation cloth mat I got with FF11 back in the day. I'm going to replace it with a quick mini since I need something that's small (mat wise) due to limited desk space.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Well i have to say, that the Steelseries Kinzu V2 is a very good mouse, if you play at 800DPI which is enough for 1080p gaming
> its very light and small as well, fit any normal hands, not big ones tho... i had the deathadder 3.5 and i was a pain in my hands after 1years using it (to big and heavy)
> and all of that is gone after i got the Kinzu V2


I was going to get the 2013 Deathadder when it comes out, but am having second thoughts after reading your post here about the size and feel of it. I'm currently using a Logitech G5 and am finding it uncomfortable after a few years worth of use. I was thinking the Deathadder might be more comfortable?

Is the Deathadder suited more for people with bigger hands?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I was going to get the 2013 Deathadder when it comes out, but am having second thoughts after reading your post here about the size and feel of it. I'm currently using a Logitech G5 and am finding it uncomfortable after a few years worth of use. I was thinking the Deathadder might be more comfortable?
> Is the Deathadder suited more for people with bigger hands?


actually i read that the new Deathadder will be lighter but same size as the one that i had. it may be good for you, but i just love my new kinzu v2 that even if i break it, i will get another one right away.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I was going to get the 2013 Deathadder when it comes out, but am having second thoughts after reading your post here about the size and feel of it. I'm currently using a Logitech G5 and am finding it uncomfortable after a few years worth of use. I was thinking the Deathadder might be more comfortable?
> Is the Deathadder suited more for people with bigger hands?


I have large hands and found the deathadder to be poorly shaped for my hands.


----------



## zkyz

Anyone got a good suggest for a mouse similar in shape and feel to a G9 without any grips on?


----------



## reh65

I was wondering if anybody had some suggestions? My only real requirement is a durable middle click durable micro-switch...

Maybe I'll start a new thread to get more people to see my post.









Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reh65*
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse for my PC. I don't play games but I use my computer quite a lot for work. I think all the mice I've bought in the last few years had to be trashed because the mouse wheel button became defective (it was either unresponsive or it double clicked).
> 
> Maybe my usage patterns are especially hard on that button, but to me, t looks like a lot of manufacturers put cheaper micro-switches for the middle click.
> 
> *So, I'm looking for a mouse with a long lasting middle click micro-switch.*
> 
> Preferably, this mouse would be wireless (with long battery life), under 60 $, somewhat small (claw grip) with an ambidextrous shape, and driverless. Everything else doesn't really matter... I just want a well-made, reliable mouse, with _really_ durable micro-switches.
> Any Ideas?


----------



## claudekennilol

Right now I've got a Steel Series WoW Mouse (the first one) and I really like it (not love, but like) that is hooked up to my desktop. And I've got a couple of MX 518s that are wonderful--one for my laptop and another that I've got at work.

The thing I like about my WoW mouse is that it has so many buttons that are all programmable. I love that it's huge. I love the thumb rest. What I hate about it is that the metallic paint has worn off of where my pointer and index finger and now it's just the ugly bare white plastic. Also, the right mouse button randomly quit working from normal wear and tear 360 days (I don't get mad and beat on my peripherals and think it's just absurd that some people react that way (sorry if that offends anyone)). Luckily, it was still covered in the 1 year warranty. So the paint on the first one wore through within that 1 year, I've had the new replacement ever since and it looks much worse now (between the two I've had it since it first came out, I don't recall the specifiic date). I also don't like the d-pad for the thumb, I usually have all four directions programmed to the same thing since it's hard to get to the right one quickly when they're all attached. In that regard, I really like how the Steel Series Wow Cataclysm mouse has separate buttons for the thumb, but it's ridiculously expensive now as it's not manufactured and I don't want to buy it because I'm wary of the paint being super bad quality again.

I love my mx 518s, when I use them, I usually don't realize that I don't have all of the bonus buttons on it (though I refuse to use any mouse now with less than 5 buttons). Though I do notice it when I play WoW on my laptop. For the most part, I play more casual games when I'm on my laptop. Also, I haven't worn through the material on either of them and the I've had one for almost 10 years.

So that's my background, I'm looking into replacing my WoW mouse with something that still has extra buttons and doesn't have crappy (said mildly) paint. More info, the Razor Naga isn't an option because I don't want a num-pad under my thumb, I want the buttons laid out, and I like having buttons 4 and 5 at the top of the side--not up next to my index finger like the naga (I'm assuming those are button 4 and 5, I've only seen pictures).

So there's a bunch of information, let's see if you mouse gurus know of a solution that can satisfy my specific tastes.

1. What's your grip style? No idea. As I'm sitting here at my work on my mx 518 it feels like claw, but I doubt that's how I grip my wow mouse since it's so huge.

2. What's your sensitivity? 1600 dpi on my mx518 (its max) 3200 on wow mouse (its max) and I switch to min dpi when shooting at long range (but only for single player games, don't play shooter games online on my pc)

3. What's your maximum budget? negligible

4. Do you want additional buttons? most definitely

5. What games do you play? all kinds. for what the mouse matters for, mostly MMOs, RPGs, and uh, idk, a variety of FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction? don't even know what that is.


----------



## crunkosaur

1. What's your grip style?
Id say a hybrid of fingertip and palm, more fingertip though.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I play with medium sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Id like at least 2 buttons on the side

5. What games do you play?
Mostly Dota2 and some FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Id like to have the option to turn on/off since i dont know if i would like it or not.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
must be wired. Drivers are OK, but must be solid.


----------



## 96accord

I currently have the MX518 and the left click button is making weird noises (sometimes). It still works but its almost 7 years old.

I'm looking to replace it. I love my MX518 and was looking into the G400 or the G500.

I play BF3 and regular surfing the internet (forums, Facebook, ect)

What's the difference between the G400 and the G500? Worth the $10 difference in price?

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *96accord*
> 
> I currently have the MX518 and the left click button is making weird noises (sometimes). It still works but its almost 7 years old.
> I'm looking to replace it. I love my MX518 and was looking into the G400 or the G500.
> I play BF3 and regular surfing the internet (forums, Facebook, ect)
> What's the difference between the G400 and the G500? Worth the $10 difference in price?
> Thanks


Get the G400, if you liked the MX518; the G500 has acceleration.


----------



## StayFrosty

*1. What's your grip style?
* Claw.
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
My current Logitech wireless mouse has 1800dpi sensor, so anything better would be a great improvement I guess?
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
No budget really, but I'd prefer to spend something around the $50 point so I can get myself some nice Steam games with the Christmas money I got!








*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes.
*5. What games do you play?*
Anything really but FPS's and RTS's make up a majority. No MMOs.
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Wat.

I'd like a mouse to last be for as long as possible and look nice as well!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StayFrosty*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?
> * Claw.
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> My current Logitech wireless mouse has 1800dpi sensor, so anything better would be a great improvement I guess?
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> No budget really, but I'd prefer to spend something around the $50 point so I can get myself some nice Steam games with the Christmas money I got!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes.
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Anything really but FPS's and RTS's make up a majority. No MMOs.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Wat.
> I'd like a mouse to last be for as long as possible and look nice as well!


Get a Logitech G400, Roccat Savu, Zowie EC Evo or AM. Also, more DPI is not better; it causes more jitter and only serves to allow you to increase the sensitivity without the mouse skipping; if you have a reasonable sensitivity, you should be able to keep the mouse below 1800 DPI.


----------



## StayFrosty

Alright thanks!


----------



## Limniscate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Get a Logitech G400, Roccat Savu, Zowie EC Evo or AM. Also, more DPI is not better; it causes more jitter and only serves to allow you to increase the sensitivity without the mouse skipping; if you have a reasonable sensitivity, you should be able to keep the mouse below 1800 DPI.


+1 and I would add DeathAdder 2013, Krait 2013, CM Storm Recon/Spawn to the list.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Limniscate*
> 
> +1 and I would add DeathAdder 2013, Krait 2013, CM Storm Recon/Spawn to the list.


I wouldn't recommend any 2013 mice, personally; they might have some issues that are yet to be resolved. I've also heard some people claiming that the CM storm spawn have issues with jitter.


----------



## Limniscate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I wouldn't recommend any 2013 mice, personally; they might have some issues that are yet to be resolved. I've also heard some people claiming that the CM storm spawn have issues with jitter.


I haven't noticed any jitter issues with my Spawn with FW61.


----------



## 96accord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Get the G400, if you liked the MX518; the G500 has acceleration.


Thanks! Figured that


----------



## ironfront

I've been using an intellimouse explorer 3.0 for 5 years and I think it's about time to find a new mouse since I've only got 2 left and one is starting to go. Ideally I'd want a mouse that performs the same or better with extra buttons and better build quality.

*1. What's your grip style?*

palm/fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

~20 inches/51 centimeters for a 360

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

~$60

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

yes

*5. What games do you play?*

mostly planetside 2, some RTS and turn based strategy games.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

don't like it

*7. Other relevant information:*

sensor needs to track well on multicolored surface (allsop raindrop)

low lift off distance is very important

my hands are ~7 inches/18 cm long

I'd prefer no drivers or being able to save the settings to the mouse then uninstall them

not a deathadder, i had one of the original ones and didn't like it, the newer ones my brother has had are even worse. I had tracking problems during fast motions and the lift off was too high. Also, the scroll wheel was not good.

needs a durable and precise scroll wheel.


----------



## Monomyth

*1. What's your grip style?*

Fingertip and claw. I use my wrist to traverse horizontally, and my knuckles to traverse vertically. This is with a bland Logitech M500.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

*Special issue. You can't 360 in MechWarrior Online. See below.*

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

I like the Corsair M90's price at $54, but I am afraid of its thumb buttons having never tried it before. (There's a refurb G600 on Egg that's $55 right now, too.)

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

At least 9 including the non-additional buttons, 11 is better, pinky button like on the G600 would be a plus, to get that extra weapon grouping in. I cringe (I know, I'm such a wuss) when I make difficult shots even on my LMB/RMB, so the rock-hard buttons on the side of the Corsair M90 could (maybe?) throw off my aim. Yes, I need to use thumb buttons for weapons fire in MWO in addition to LMB/RMB. Yes, there are a bunch of other keyboard toggles that I'd like to offload from my WASD hand to my thumb.

EDIT: I'm looking at the CM Storm Recon and the Steelseries Sensei as well now, in the hopes that I can use the right side buttons with my pinky. How are those for that?

*5. What games do you play?*

MechWarrior Online, complete with its psuedo-kinda-maybe-FPS controls. See below. Utility for League of Legends, World of Tanks, Planetside 2, Hawken also a plus.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'd prefer to be precise AND accurate, so....

*7. Other relevant information:*

Most of the time my mouse is on 9.25" x 7.75" cloth with a printed design on it, but the table below is a white high-gloss lacquer if needed.

What's the most number of buttons on a mouse with an Avago 3090?

Anyways, here we go. In MechWarrior Online, you aim with the mouse cursor, and the 'Mech's torso slowly tries to follow your aim cursor, like with tank turrets in World of Tanks. A few issues, however: You can't move your mouse cursor past the field of motion of your 'Mech's torso (read: can't spin all the way around), every 'Mech has a differing wideness of field of torso motion, OH and let's also add the intentional "anti-aimbot" input acceleration AND delay in there, and you have the furball that is what I deal with every time I log in. (It's really my most favorite game, though, don't get me wrong.)

As for how it translates to what I want, I need to be able to work each corner of my 1920x1080 screen to actuate my torso in both axes. On-the-fly adjustment is also needed, too, since I only have a 23-inch monitor and targeting zoom is required for both sniping AND knee-jerk close combat (targeting specific parts of opponents is a must!)


----------



## timpattinson

1. What's your grip style?
Palm.
2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't know. I'm coming from a crappy Logitech mouse/kb combo, so probably not much.
3. What's your maximum budget?
$70 AUD
4. Do you want additional buttons?
A few would be nice
5. What games do you play?
None, but maybe a few FPS in the future.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
??

This mouse needs to work with Linux, so mice unusable without customization programs are out of the question.


----------



## TeamXlink

1. What's your grip style? - _Palm (But I use a Claw Grip Mouse)_

2. What's your sensitivity? - _5600 DPI_

3. What's your maximum budget? - _No Maximum Budget for the mouse
_
4. Do you want additional buttons? - _It would be nice, but it isn't a requirement.
_
5. What games do you play? - _QuakeWorld, Quake III Arena, Warsow, Team Fortress 2, Nexuiz Team Fortress_

6. Do you mind about prediction? - _I would prefer to have the option to turn it off or not have it at all, but it is feasible if it can't be turned off._

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

_I would like a high sensitivity mouse. It must be wired. I currently use an original wired Razar Naga. I absolutely love it, The left mouse button has worn down to make it difficult to click, it also has a double click issue. The screws have been stripped however, thus fixing it is not an option. (Unless I can find a way to remove the stripped screws).

Thank you._


----------



## Neuro K-

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip.
2. What's your sensitivity?
I'm a low sens player
3. What's your maximum budget?
doesn't matter if the mouse worth it
4. Do you want additional buttons?
no
5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6, and other fps but cs the most.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Was a time i use KinzuV1 and i hate his prediction.
7. Other relevant information:
The only thing i worried about it's the drivers, because i will use the mouse for lan tournaments and in my country the pcs used for the events have deep freeze so that you can not install any driver correctly, because the mayority needs to reboot in order to work... so it would be nice if the mouse have some internal memory that save the config state in any pc.

Thx for your time, and sry for my english i did the best with the translator, Regards


----------



## sheeps

*1. What's your grip style?*
My Palm rests on the mouse pad but I mostly move the mouse with my fingers so I'd say this is probably claw/finger tip grip?

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I have a medium to high sensitivity. Not crazy high twitch stuff, there is some tracking on the pad, but not huge arm movements.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$65 incl. shipping

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Not necessary. Don't use the two extra's on the intellimouse as it is.

*5. What games do you play?*

Mostly shooters for mouse control.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Prefer not.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Would like a braided cord and solid feeling buttons. I tend to accidentally click the right mouse button the intellimouse quite often.


----------



## Trel

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip/claw hybrid

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Not important

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Not important

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, at least 4 on left, and 1 on right not counting the standard 2 + scroll wheel.
(Additional over this are even better.

*5. What games do you play?*
World of Warcraft + various FPS and games like Dishonored

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I'm not positive what this is, but if it's not a standard mouse feature, and affects movement, then I probably wouldn't like it.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Absolutely no Razer mice please.
My current mouse is a Steelseries World of Warcraft Cataclysm MMO mouse ( http://steelseries.com/us/products/games/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-mmo-gaming-mouse )
(This mouse is perfect for me hardware-wise, however, the software has an issue which I can't tolerate which is that holding in a mouse button cannot translate to holding a keyboard key, so I can't bind anything for a push to talk button. They've acknowledged it as a limitation of their software, but haven't updated the software in over a year, so I've given up.)
The mouse would need to be wired.
The scroll wheel MUST be the type that clicks as you scroll. If it's one of the ones where you can toggle the clicking off and on, that will not work for me, and should be counted as NOT clicking.

Ideally, I'd end up with something very similar to the Steelseries one I linked above. I like the hardware, I just have issue with the software. So as similar as possible to that would be perfect.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sheeps*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> My Palm rests on the mouse pad but I mostly move the mouse with my fingers so I'd say this is probably claw/finger tip grip?
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> I have a medium to high sensitivity. Not crazy high twitch stuff, there is some tracking on the pad, but not huge arm movements.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $65 incl. shipping
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Not necessary. Don't use the two extra's on the intellimouse as it is.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> Mostly shooters for mouse control.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Prefer not.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Would like a braided cord and solid feeling buttons. I tend to accidentally click the right mouse button the intellimouse quite often.


Zowie EC series or Razer Deathadder, they resemble the ie3.0 and work just fine. The new Deathadders 2013 have some problems with a spinning bug though, so you might want to be weary. Braided cable is usually not neccesary as it isnt that much durable and usually makes the cord stiffer and creates more drag on the mousepad.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neuro K-*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip grip.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I'm a low sens player
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> doesn't matter if the mouse worth it
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> no
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS 1.6, and other fps but cs the most.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Was a time i use KinzuV1 and i hate his prediction.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> The only thing i worried about it's the drivers, because i will use the mouse for lan tournaments and in my country the pcs used for the events have deep freeze so that you can not install any driver correctly, because the mayority needs to reboot in order to work... so it would be nice if the mouse have some internal memory that save the config state in any pc.
> 
> Thx for your time, and sry for my english i did the best with the translator, Regards


Razer Krait 2013, you have to buy it off ebay and the scroolwheel and feet sucks. It also has a spin bug, but overall a very good mouse.
Razer Abyssus, it might jitter on some pads, it doesnt have any type of software.
Zowie AM, stiffer Huano switches, not great perfect control speed. It has a very low LOD and has no software.


----------



## sheeps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> Zowie EC series or Razer Deathadder, they resemble the ie3.0 and work just fine. The new Deathadders 2013 have some problems with a spinning bug though, so you might want to be weary. Braided cable is usually not neccesary as it isnt that much durable and usually makes the cord stiffer and creates more drag on the mousepad.


Cheers. I ended up actually ordering a Deathadder 2013 not long ago. Hopefully I don't have those issues! :X


----------



## nooboc2012

1. What's your grip style?

-

2. What's your sensitivity?

-

3. What's your maximum budget?

no limit.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Sure, my current mouse MX518 logitech has a few extra and use them in WoW

5. What games do you play?

WoW and BF3

6. Do you mind about prediction?

-

7. Other relevant information:

Basically looking for something similar to my MX518 logitech mouse, but with more buttons for WoW. 3 would do to be honest but more would be fine.


----------



## nooboc2012

1. What's your grip style?

-

2. What's your sensitivity?

-

3. What's your maximum budget?

no limit.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Sure, my current mouse MX518 logitech has a few extra and use them in WoW

5. What games do you play?

WoW and BF3

6. Do you mind about prediction?

-

7. Other relevant information:

Basically looking for something similar to my MX518 logitech mouse, but with more buttons for WoW. 3 would do to be honest but more would be fine.


----------



## Shadu

*1. What's your grip style?*
It's kind of a mix between the claw/fingertip/palm grip?
I prefer a small mouse though about the same size as my current mouse which is the Razer Orochi.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
It's around medium-high usually, I don't like having to move my mouse for a long distance.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
My maximum budget is around 80 euro.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Not really, I don't mind it if they are there but I usually don't use them.

*5. What games do you play?*
All kind of, fps, rts, mmo's, moba's (warframe, cs:go, ps2, gw2, dota2, sc2, and more..).

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I rather be as precise as possible so I rather have no prediction.

*7. Other relevant information:*
This mouse is supposed to be used with a laptop (yes I mostly play games on my laptop since I like being able to sit anywhere and play some games) and I don't always have a mousepad with me so I would prefer it if the mouse can function on a lot of different surfaces.

I prefer a light mouse (I didn't have any batteries in my Orochi unless I had to use it wireless) somewhere around the 70-90g I think.
It has to be a good quality one, especially the cord since my past few mouses have broken on the cable (the Orochi aswell, and Razer doesn't sell the cable seperate eventho it's a detachable one..).
If possible it should have a rubber like grip as I find those the most comfortable ones.

The Zowie AM looked interesting to me, but that one really badly needs a complete black mousepad apparently or it won't function as well. I've also been thinking of the steelseries sensei (raw version mostlikely) but apparently the tracking on it isn't as good?

Hope you guys can help me find and decide on a awesome mouse.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadu*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> It's kind of a mix between the claw/fingertip/palm grip?
> I prefer a small mouse though about the same size as my current mouse which is the Razer Orochi.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> It's around medium-high usually, I don't like having to move my mouse for a long distance.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> My maximum budget is around 80 euro.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Not really, I don't mind it if they are there but I usually don't use them.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> All kind of, fps, rts, mmo's, moba's (warframe, cs:go, ps2, gw2, dota2, sc2, and more..).
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I rather be as precise as possible so I rather have no prediction.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> This mouse is supposed to be used with a laptop (yes I mostly play games on my laptop since I like being able to sit anywhere and play some games) and I don't always have a mousepad with me so I would prefer it if the mouse can function on a lot of different surfaces.
> 
> I prefer a light mouse (I didn't have any batteries in my Orochi unless I had to use it wireless) somewhere around the 70-90g I think.
> It has to be a good quality one, especially the cord since my past few mouses have broken on the cable (the Orochi aswell, and Razer doesn't sell the cable seperate eventho it's a detachable one..).
> If possible it should have a rubber like grip as I find those the most comfortable ones.
> 
> The Zowie AM looked interesting to me, but that one really badly needs a complete black mousepad apparently or it won't function as well. I've also been thinking of the steelseries sensei (raw version mostlikely) but apparently the tracking on it isn't as good?
> 
> Hope you guys can help me find and decide on a awesome mouse.


CM Storm Spawn, can palm with small hands and is a claw mouse, light weight optical sensor.


----------



## Shadu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> CM Storm Spawn, can palm with small hands and is a claw mouse, light weight optical sensor.


There is no online retailer in my country (Netherlands) that sells it, they do sell other CM mouses but just not that one.
I also don't really like the shape of it, especially the part at the right side of the mouse, I rather have a mouse that is straigth at the sides (kinda like | | I should have said that in the extra information, sorry) do you perhaps know a other mouse?

Apart from that it's a great one though, the same sensor as the Zowie AM and better switches than that one and the sensor does work on colored surfaces although I can't find if it will work on wood or shiny surfaces. Just don't think it would be comfortable for me to use. Thanks for the suggestion.

How is the Roccat Savu? Apparently it also has the same sensor, just don't know anything about the rest, it's somewhat heavy and a bit bigger than my current mouse but still it seems to be a nice one?


----------



## Napwneon

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Between 3000 and 4500 DPI

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
About 80-100 dollars

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes. At the minimum, two additional buttons for the thumb. Neither prefer nor dislike any more buttons than that.

*5. What games do you play?*
Pretty much everything - MMOs, FPSes, RTSes, you name it.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No

*7. Other relevant information:*
I'd prefer something right-handed over an ambidextrous shape. I generally switch my fingers around - sometimes I press M1 with my index finger, sometimes with my middle finger. Likewise, I click M2 with either the middle or the ring finger.

I've been using the Cyborg R.A.T. 7, but the scroll wheel has been dying lately.

Somethign that looks cool would be nice. I've enjoyed the attention people have given me over my RAT, so I'd like something that's visually striking


----------



## Rumble111

Thanks to all in advance!

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip i believe? wrist stays mostly on the desk and pivots(I don't move the whole arm) and I grip mouse with all fingers plus the 'bridge' (where palm meets fingers).

2. What's your sensitivity?
no idea - slightly above the 'default' speed. on my X8 it's usually the middle dpi with no changes.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Aus $100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. At the minimum, two additional buttons for the thumb.

5. What games do you play?
60% MOBA (LoL for now) 40% whatever

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no idea

7. Other relevant information:

Sidewinder X8 was nice in features but shape didn't suit and had wireless channel conflicts. I used to use a mx510 then 518, and to be honest I don't remember the experience 100% but I think i recall getting my pinky slightly pinched between mouse and mat sometimes.

I've been going nuts trying to balance all the reviews, but I believe i can rule out the CM Spawn as i hate the idea of that big red thumb button - I know I'd accidentally hit that. So I'm considering
- the Sensei Raw Rubber (i have 'warm' hands) but stock here looks hard to get
- the G9x, but I'm concerned about the fit of that left mouse button, mainly the shell that sits next to it. I think I'd prefer that whole left surface to be button.
- the G400, but concerned about that pinky issue mentioned above

P.S. I don't like the look of almost anything Razer make - I guess that's a personal thing.Saying that I have a Goliathus mat, but I find it to be very sketchy compared to my old SS Qck mat.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadu*
> 
> There is no online retailer in my country (Netherlands) that sells it, they do sell other CM mouses but just not that one.
> I also don't really like the shape of it, especially the part at the right side of the mouse, I rather have a mouse that is straigth at the sides (kinda like | | I should have said that in the extra information, sorry) do you perhaps know a other mouse?
> 
> Apart from that it's a great one though, the same sensor as the Zowie AM and better switches than that one and the sensor does work on colored surfaces although I can't find if it will work on wood or shiny surfaces. Just don't think it would be comfortable for me to use. Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> How is the Roccat Savu? Apparently it also has the same sensor, just don't know anything about the rest, it's somewhat heavy and a bit bigger than my current mouse but still it seems to be a nice one?


Roccat Savu is inderdaad dan een goede keuze







(ben trouwens ook nederlands) en de cm storm spawn zou wel te koop zijn geweest via ebay of amazon of zo.

Sry for the dutch words, just like it that someone else here is dutch aswell


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Napwneon*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Between 3000 and 4500 DPI
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> About 80-100 dollars
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes. At the minimum, two additional buttons for the thumb. Neither prefer nor dislike any more buttons than that.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Pretty much everything - MMOs, FPSes, RTSes, you name it.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> No
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I'd prefer something right-handed over an ambidextrous shape. I generally switch my fingers around - sometimes I press M1 with my index finger, sometimes with my middle finger. Likewise, I click M2 with either the middle or the ring finger.
> 
> I've been using the Cyborg R.A.T. 7, but the scroll wheel has been dying lately.
> 
> Somethign that looks cool would be nice. I've enjoyed the attention people have given me over my RAT, so I'd like something that's visually striking


Have a look at thermaltake level 10 because you obviously want something flashy


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rumble111*
> 
> Thanks to all in advance!
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip i believe? wrist stays mostly on the desk and pivots(I don't move the whole arm) and I grip mouse with all fingers plus the 'bridge' (where palm meets fingers).
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> no idea - slightly above the 'default' speed. on my X8 it's usually the middle dpi with no changes.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Aus $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. At the minimum, two additional buttons for the thumb.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 60% MOBA (LoL for now) 40% whatever
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> no idea
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Sidewinder X8 was nice in features but shape didn't suit and had wireless channel conflicts. I used to use a mx510 then 518, and to be honest I don't remember the experience 100% but I think i recall getting my pinky slightly pinched between mouse and mat sometimes.
> 
> I've been going nuts trying to balance all the reviews, but I believe i can rule out the CM Spawn as i hate the idea of that big red thumb button - I know I'd accidentally hit that. So I'm considering
> - the Sensei Raw Rubber (i have 'warm' hands) but stock here looks hard to get
> - the G9x, but I'm concerned about the fit of that left mouse button, mainly the shell that sits next to it. I think I'd prefer that whole left surface to be button.
> - the G400, but concerned about that pinky issue mentioned above
> 
> P.S. I don't like the look of almost anything Razer make - I guess that's a personal thing.Saying that I have a Goliathus mat, but I find it to be very sketchy compared to my old SS Qck mat.


Razer Abyssus I would recomend at first because you say you have fingertip grip. But later I read that you dont want anything from Razr. So mabay have a look at the following mice.
Roccat Savu, Logitech g400, CM Storm Recon, Steelseries Kana, Zowie AM.

If youre not sure about your grip just go for something hybrid like cm storm recon or kana or am. Gl !


----------



## Shadu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> Roccat Savu is inderdaad dan een goede keuze
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (ben trouwens ook nederlands) en de cm storm spawn zou wel te koop zijn geweest via ebay of amazon of zo.
> 
> Sry for the dutch words, just like it that someone else here is dutch aswell


I'll keep it in english








I went for the Savu, the grip seems more comfortable and it's about the same price although I think it's a bit bigger and heavier than the cm storm spawn but that should be fine.








Thanks for the help, fellow Dutchie!


----------



## Rumble111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> Razer Abyssus I would recomend at first because you say you have fingertip grip. But later I read that you dont want anything from Razr. So mabay have a look at the following mice.
> Roccat Savu, Logitech g400, CM Storm Recon, Steelseries Kana, Zowie AM.
> 
> If youre not sure about your grip just go for something hybrid like cm storm recon or kana or am. Gl !


Thanks for the advice . From the mice you suggested, most have a design I don't like , either ergonomics or button placement in most cases. The g400 seems the best of that bunch for me. Still leaning towards the raw or g9 over most of those. Also fairly sure the zowie isn't stocked locally.


----------



## pnoozi

1. What's your grip style?

Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium (low compared to the crazy DPIs some people use)

3. What's your maximum budget?

Whatever just show me everything

4. Do you want additional buttons?

No, but I can tolerate a couple side buttons that I'll never use.

5. What games do you play?

First-person shooters mainly

6. Do you mind about prediction?

This sounds like something I want to avoid

7. Other relevant information:

I'm coming from a MX518, then a Kinzu v2 Pro.

I didn't like the MX518 because:
- The scroll wheel was crude, it's loud as hell, it's not even flat on top and has no treads. It's just a rounded piece of hard rubber, eventually it makes my index finger sore.

I didn't like the Kinzu v2 Pro because:
- It was *TINY*
- The scroll wheel (while leaps and bounds better than the MX518's) failed after a few months. The mouse also felt cheap in general.

Basically I'm just looking for a normal sized (~125mm+ length), simple *optical* mouse with a quality scroll wheel. I don't need or want l33t buttons all over the place. I just need right click, left click, and middle click. I want a mouse made for a gamer with normal sized hands (I'm a smaller guy with smaller hands, and the Kinzu v2 felt tiny even to me).


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pnoozi*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Medium (low compared to the crazy DPIs some people use)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Whatever just show me everything
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> No, but I can tolerate a couple side buttons that I'll never use.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> First-person shooters mainly
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> This sounds like something I want to avoid
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I'm coming from a MX518, then a Kinzu v2 Pro.
> 
> I didn't like the MX518 because:
> - The scroll wheel was crude, it's loud as hell, it's not even flat on top and has no treads. It's just a rounded piece of hard rubber, eventually it makes my index finger sore.
> 
> I didn't like the Kinzu v2 Pro because:
> - It was *TINY*
> - The scroll wheel (while leaps and bounds better than the MX518's) failed after a few months. The mouse also felt cheap in general.
> 
> Basically I'm just looking for a normal sized (~125mm+ length), simple *optical* mouse with a quality scroll wheel. I don't need or want l33t buttons all over the place. I just need right click, left click, and middle click. I want a mouse made for a gamer with normal sized hands (I'm a smaller guy with smaller hands, and the Kinzu v2 felt tiny even to me).


At first I wanted to say Roccat Savu but the size isnt bigger then the kinzu, so best to look at Razer Deathadder 2013 (make sure to update firmware), or the logitech g400.


----------



## BahamutZer0

1. What's your grip style?

Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium to High - I like to be able to cover alot of ground with out having to life my mouse up.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$75

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I want to have thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse (right handed mouse) don't want anything on the left as I would just disable them anyways)

5. What games do you play?
MMO's (wow, swtor) Action RPG's like Deus Ex HR , Darksiders II - FPS - Team Fortress 2, CoD, etc - others like Diablo III, Torchlight 2, Planetside 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no sure?

7. Other relevant information:
coming from a crappy 3 button mouse after my razer krait died. I have small hands for my size so like something not much bigger than a standard ms 3 button mouse. also prefer something with a braided cord as well.

I was kind of eyeing the Razer Naga Hex but not sure on the size of the mouse. I also love mechanical buttons - got a Razer Black Widow keyboard as well. Open to other suggestions as that is a bit on the high end of my price range. I am sure the wife would like to keep it lower.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Medium to High - I like to be able to cover alot of ground with out having to life my mouse up.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $75
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I want to have thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse (right handed mouse) don't want anything on the left as I would just disable them anyways)
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMO's (wow, swtor) Action RPG's like Deus Ex HR , Darksiders II - FPS - Team Fortress 2, CoD, etc - others like Diablo III, Torchlight 2, Planetside 2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> no sure?
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> coming from a crappy 3 button mouse after my razer krait died. I have small hands for my size so like something not much bigger than a standard ms 3 button mouse. also prefer something with a braided cord as well.
> 
> I was kind of eyeing the Razer Naga Hex but not sure on the size of the mouse. I also love mechanical buttons - got a Razer Black Widow keyboard as well. Open to other suggestions as that is a bit on the high end of my price range. I am sure the wife would like to keep it lower.


Razer Deathadder, is good allround mouse with 2 side buttons on the left. But if you really play more mmorpg and moba games go for the Razer Naga.


----------



## Artifact

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> I was kind of eyeing the Razer Naga Hex but not sure on the size of the mouse. I also love mechanical buttons - got a Razer Black Widow keyboard as well. Open to other suggestions as that is a bit on the high end of my price range. I am sure the wife would like to keep it lower.


The Nagas aren't large actually. They'll fit small hands, especially if combined with a palm grip. I only own the Standard Naga, but I've had a chance to finger the Hex for a couple of minutes, and the thumb buttons feel really good and solid. If you don't mind the Z-axis issue, it's definitely a good choice.


----------



## BahamutZer0

What is this z-axis issue you are talking about it, obviously I haven't read up on mice in a while as I don't buy one until the prior one dies.


----------



## Artifact

You probably wouldn't notice it though. Especially if you don't lift your mouse much.


----------



## hiccup

most annoying thing about the naga ist the dynamic dpi scaling aka acceleration. If you move your mouse slowly, the mouse switches the dpi to a lower value.


----------



## BahamutZer0

looking up that issue it looks like it affects all the laser mice from Razer except the Deathadder.

are their other brands / mice that people recommend? I have used steelseries in the past for other products. Also Corsair and few others recently have been releasing them.

Otherwise the deathadder looks like a good mouse as well from what I have seen of it.


----------



## Artifact

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hiccup*
> 
> most annoying thing about the naga ist the dynamic dpi scaling aka acceleration. If you move your mouse slowly, the mouse switches the dpi to a lower value.


The Naga doesn't have dynamic dpi scaling. You must be confusing it with another mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> looking up that issue it looks like it affects all the laser mice from Razer except the Deathadder.
> 
> are their other brands / mice that people recommend? I have used steelseries in the past for other products. Also Corsair and few others recently have been releasing them.
> 
> Otherwise the deathadder looks like a good mouse as well from what I have seen of it.


The DeathAdder is actually optical, so yes, all of Razer's laser mice seem to have this issue, and laser sensors in general all have flawed tracking at the moment.

I could recommend plenty of other mice, but you'll have to be more specific as to what you're looking for. The DeathAdder 2013 is possibly the best overall gaming mouse at the moment, but the G400 is probably the best bang for your buck.


----------



## hiccup

apparently my naga hex does have dynamic dpi scaling, maybe they removed it in the new naga 2013, don't know


----------



## Artifact

Probably a software issue then. I'm on my second Naga (Molten), which I use without software. Both have always been at 1800 DPI with flawless X/Y axis tracking.


----------



## Nacire

*1. What's your grip style?*

From most pics I would say Fingertip. It's similar to palm, but not fully committed. When the gaming gets really intense, my fingers arch up even more. Does anyone actually use one grip at all times?

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I currently play at 1000dpi, but I'm pretty sure that's my mouse's default for High setting, so I've just become used to that setting

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

All suggestions welcome

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes, but not too many on the side. I've recently tried the Logitech g600 and it was not for me. I couldn't really grip the mouse without hitting thumb buttons nor could I quickly decipher between the buttons. So, two minimum, but others would be welcome if they are out of the way of grip, yet intelligently placed for regular usage. I also tried the g700 and found the 4 thumb buttons terribly "mushy" to press and an absolute horrible button configuration. Two buttons where you can rock your thumb easily between the two is what I'm used to. The new Func Mouse side buttons pique my interest a bit with their placement.

*5. What games do you play?*

I play all kinds, but as of late, WoW has been the mainstay. I do enjoy twitch shooters like quake 3, but I just don't play them as much as WoW. I brought the SteelSeries WoW mouse home once to give it a spin and it felt like a huge piece of junky plastic. It just felt so cheap.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I'm not sure I know what prediction is, but it sounds like the mouse controlling me, where I like to be in control of my mouse? I'm not sure I would know it if it was happening, though maybe I would.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I have been using an Ikari Laser for almost 4 years now? I think. It's been a long time, regardless. I have honestly loved the mouse. It's responsiveness, ergonomic form factor and button "click" quality have all been strong throughout my rigorous usage. I work on my pc and game on my pc a lot, so I'm pretty sure I've abused the mouse well beyond the "normal usage" level. The only issue I've ever had with it since day one, was an occasional "spinout" or odd direction my camera would instantly do in 3d game environments. It didnt happen often and I always just assumed it was something I was doing, between the pad, lifting the mouse, etc. Anyhow, It wasn't until about a year ago that I started getting effects from the wear and tear and I started to experience double clicking on lt mouse and a sticking rt mouse button.

This brings me to now. My wife got me a g700 for my bday and I was instantly turned off by the button feel and configuration of the thumb buttons. Not to mention that the scroll wheel was way too loose even when in click mode. So I instantly sent it back. Due to my high amount of MMO play, I've always wanted to try and MMO mouse so the g600 caught my eye. Now once it came, I wanted to love it soo bad. It looked and felt great, seemed incredibly well built, but for the life of me, I couldn't quit accidentally pressing the ring finger g-shift which I'm used to gripping my mouse with that finger. Also, the thumb buttons just weren't great either. I have a need in game to quickly use thumb buttons without any error in pressing other buttons. I could tell this wasn't going to be an option with the g600. My last gripe was with the Thumb buttons and Gshift, there just wasn't a solid place to actually grip the mouse. So I sent it back.

I've been looking at the Deathadder 2013, Mionix Naos 8200?, Razer Imperator, and recently a friend showed me the Func marketing vid for their new mouse. I've contemplated just getting a new Ikari, but I think, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Steelseries is discontinuing the Ikari line? They aren't in stock and I've seen certain sites mark them as discontinued. Anyhow, thanks for reading my ramblings and any help is appreciated.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nacire*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> From most pics I would say Fingertip. It's similar to palm, but not fully committed. When the gaming gets really intense, my fingers arch up even more. Does anyone actually use one grip at all times?
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> I currently play at 1000dpi, but I'm pretty sure that's my mouse's default for High setting, so I've just become used to that setting
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> All suggestions welcome
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, but not too many on the side. I've recently tried the Logitech g600 and it was not for me. I couldn't really grip the mouse without hitting thumb buttons nor could I quickly decipher between the buttons. So, two minimum, but others would be welcome if they are out of the way of grip, yet intelligently placed for regular usage. I also tried the g700 and found the 4 thumb buttons terribly "mushy" to press and an absolute horrible button configuration. Two buttons where you can rock your thumb easily between the two is what I'm used to. The new Func Mouse side buttons pique my interest a bit with their placement.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> I play all kinds, but as of late, WoW has been the mainstay. I do enjoy twitch shooters like quake 3, but I just don't play them as much as WoW. I brought the SteelSeries WoW mouse home once to give it a spin and it felt like a huge piece of junky plastic. It just felt so cheap.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I'm not sure I know what prediction is, but it sounds like the mouse controlling me, where I like to be in control of my mouse? I'm not sure I would know it if it was happening, though maybe I would.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> I have been using an Ikari Laser for almost 4 years now? I think. It's been a long time, regardless. I have honestly loved the mouse. It's responsiveness, ergonomic form factor and button "click" quality have all been strong throughout my rigorous usage. I work on my pc and game on my pc a lot, so I'm pretty sure I've abused the mouse well beyond the "normal usage" level. The only issue I've ever had with it since day one, was an occasional "spinout" or odd direction my camera would instantly do in 3d game environments. It didnt happen often and I always just assumed it was something I was doing, between the pad, lifting the mouse, etc. Anyhow, It wasn't until about a year ago that I started getting effects from the wear and tear and I started to experience double clicking on lt mouse and a sticking rt mouse button.
> 
> This brings me to now. My wife got me a g700 for my bday and I was instantly turned off by the button feel and configuration of the thumb buttons. Not to mention that the scroll wheel was way too loose even when in click mode. So I instantly sent it back. Due to my high amount of MMO play, I've always wanted to try and MMO mouse so the g600 caught my eye. Now once it came, I wanted to love it soo bad. It looked and felt great, seemed incredibly well built, but for the life of me, I couldn't quit accidentally pressing the ring finger g-shift which I'm used to gripping my mouse with that finger. Also, the thumb buttons just weren't great either. I have a need in game to quickly use thumb buttons without any error in pressing other buttons. I could tell this wasn't going to be an option with the g600. My last gripe was with the Thumb buttons and Gshift, there just wasn't a solid place to actually grip the mouse. So I sent it back.
> 
> I've been looking at the Deathadder 2013, Mionix Naos 8200?, Razer Imperator, and recently a friend showed me the Func marketing vid for their new mouse. I've contemplated just getting a new Ikari, but I think, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Steelseries is discontinuing the Ikari line? They aren't in stock and I've seen certain sites mark them as discontinued. Anyhow, thanks for reading my ramblings and any help is appreciated.


youre right about the grip, people switch there grip most of the time, I am a claw grip but when I am browsing a lazy palmer









But difficult after youre whole story to advise you a mouse, you say you have a fingertip grip but the ikari is really really a palm grip gamer mouse.
So I am guessing you should more take a look at the following mice,

Razer Deathadder,
Logitech g400,
Zowie AM,

In that order









But hey why dont you order just a new Ikari.
You know what you will get and there not expensive at least not in my country.


----------



## sheepisready

Hi,

since my last mouse was killed last night by my gfs electro-shock touch superpower (I know right? - lmb stopped working, had to remap one of the thumb buttons for that. quick tip - standard mouse layout was made by people with brains™), I've decided to look for a new critter. to make the long story short, here's the Q/As

*1. What's your grip style?*
This one's tricky, i think I'm using fingertip grip most of the time

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
not sure about actual DPI numbers but i use really low in-game sensitivities and tend to move my mouse rapidly over long distances.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
well, the less the better, kinda broke atm and can't wait long for paychecks (no mouse..), 50$ would be pefect.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Definitely yes, 3 extras beyond the standard lmb/rmb/scroll

*5. What games do you play?*
mostly some action mmos c9/vindictus/tf2 etc

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
in a perfect world - I'd like a mouse without prediction, but it's not a high priority.

*7. Other relevant information:*
performance-wise the absolutely best mouse I've ever played with was Logitech MX300 (I'm speaking about high malfunction speed/perfect control speed). Otoh i loved button layout on A4tech X7. If there's anything that combines these two qualities, I'd love to lay my hand(s) on it.

One more thing, I prefer matt/rubber finish, feels less slippery, but again - not a high priority.

Thanks in advance.

Sheep


----------



## Artifact

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sheepisready*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> since my last mouse was killed last night by my gfs electro-shock touch superpower (I know right? - lmb stopped working, had to remap one of the thumb buttons for that. quick tip - standard mouse layout was made by people with brains™), I've decided to look for a new critter. to make the long story short, here's the Q/As
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> This one's tricky, i think I'm using fingertip grip most of the time
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> not sure about actual DPI numbers but i use really low in-game sensitivities and tend to move my mouse rapidly over long distances.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> well, the less the better, kinda broke atm and can't wait long for paychecks (no mouse..), 50$ would be pefect.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Definitely yes, 3 extras beyond the standard lmb/rmb/scroll
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> mostly some action mmos c9/vindictus/tf2 etc
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> in a perfect world - I'd like a mouse without prediction, but it's not a high priority.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> performance-wise the absolutely best mouse I've ever played with was Logitech MX300 (I'm speaking about high malfunction speed/perfect control speed). Otoh i loved button layout on A4tech X7. If there's anything that combines these two qualities, I'd love to lay my hand(s) on it.
> 
> One more thing, I prefer matt/rubber finish, feels less slippery, but again - not a high priority.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sheep


Logitech G400 fits all your criteria. 3600 DPI, flawless tracking, no prediction, 5 extra buttons, rubber coating, priced at 50 USD but Amazon is selling it for $34 at the moment.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sheepisready*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> since my last mouse was killed last night by my gfs electro-shock touch superpower (I know right? - lmb stopped working, had to remap one of the thumb buttons for that. quick tip - standard mouse layout was made by people with brains™), I've decided to look for a new critter. to make the long story short, here's the Q/As
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> This one's tricky, i think I'm using fingertip grip most of the time
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> not sure about actual DPI numbers but i use really low in-game sensitivities and tend to move my mouse rapidly over long distances.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> well, the less the better, kinda broke atm and can't wait long for paychecks (no mouse..), 50$ would be pefect.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Definitely yes, 3 extras beyond the standard lmb/rmb/scroll
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> mostly some action mmos c9/vindictus/tf2 etc
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> in a perfect world - I'd like a mouse without prediction, but it's not a high priority.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> performance-wise the absolutely best mouse I've ever played with was Logitech MX300 (I'm speaking about high malfunction speed/perfect control speed). Otoh i loved button layout on A4tech X7. If there's anything that combines these two qualities, I'd love to lay my hand(s) on it.
> 
> One more thing, I prefer matt/rubber finish, feels less slippery, but again - not a high priority.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sheep


mabay have a look at the gigabyte force m7


----------



## sheepisready

Thanks for the quick answers guys,

checking benchmarks/reviews on these, the g400 looks really promising.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

just buy a g400 good value for quality


----------



## BahamutZer0

what do you recommend for a good claw grip mouse. I tend to be 50 / 50 split on how i grip it between palm and claw once i actually paid attention.

back from my original post -
games - mmo's, fps, moba's, etc

and must have left side buttons only - no right side crap

Thinking i will probably get the deathadder 2013 model. I tried fitting my hand to a naga at a local store but it just felt to bulky. The Corsair Vengeance M65 looks nice but possible to big / bluky.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> what do you recommend for a good claw grip mouse. I tend to be 50 / 50 split on how i grip it between palm and claw once i actually paid attention.
> 
> back from my original post -
> games - mmo's, fps, moba's, etc
> 
> and must have left side buttons only - no right side crap
> 
> Thinking i will probably get the deathadder 2013 model. I tried fitting my hand to a naga at a local store but it just felt to bulky. The Corsair Vengeance M65 looks nice but possible to big / bluky.


Roccat Savu, love it myself as a claw grip gamer, but tend to palm it when doing things like browsing. But if you have large hands or really small ones its is not for you.
Razer Deathadder is more a palm grip mouse, but could be clawed if you have medium/large hands.


----------



## BahamutZer0

Well even though I am nearly 6' in height I have small hands - measuring 4" in width (fingers together) and 7" in length from wrist to tip of fingers


----------



## Seville Orange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> i will probably get the deathadder 2013 model... ...Corsair Vengeance M65 looks nice but possible to big / bluky.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> ...small hands - measuring 4" in width (fingers together) and 7" in length from wrist to tip of fingers


I think you'll find the DeathAdder difficult to get on with, I have slightly larger hands than you and like to use a finger tip grip, but I just find the DeathAdder to be quite a bit too large.

This review quotes the Corsair M60 dimensions as: "118(L) x 77(W) x 39(H) mm / 3.6"(L) x 3.0"(W) x 1.5"(H)." It's not info direct from Corsair though so I don't know if those dimensions are accurate. Perhaps an M60/M65 owner can confirm?


----------



## BahamutZer0

the mouse I use the most is actually my one at work and it is a standard MS 3 button Intellimouse. that size is about perfect so it would be something along those lines.


----------



## sheepisready

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> just buy a g400 good value for quality


Ok, decided to get g400, seems like the best choice. Unfortunately i can't get them anywhere near me, so i'll have to have one shipped over. Is there anything i should be aware of when buying? For example, do all the models have same sensor? Or is it safe to buy?

edit: grammar ftw


----------



## Seville Orange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BahamutZer0*
> 
> ..standard MS 3 button Intellimouse. that size is about perfect...


I'm not 100% sure which version you mean, so one of these: Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical? or a different model? If it's the WMO, according to the Microsoft data sheet that mouse is 124 × 66.6 × 39.6 mm. I know a lot of people (mainly low sense FPS players) swear by the WMO, but I'm not a fan, although I found it more usable than the IME 3.0. I put some short comments about mice I've used on the fetish thread. I'm guessing that for you a good shape would be the Imperator, but there are some major compromises (glossy sides or iffy sensor) that make it hard to recommend definitively. Theron, M65/M60 and Kone Pure are probably in the right ball park for shape, but Theron is the only one that will be available with an optical sensor (in March or April according to the TT eSports facebook page.)


----------



## BahamutZer0

Yep that is the MS I use at work - its standard issue there. They buy them by the truck load but I have had the same one for nearly 6 years now. just wish it was a 5 button mouse.


----------



## General Mars

I bought the Razer SWTOR mouse a few weeks ago for $65 on Newegg. For the price, wireless capabilities, and programmability it appeared to be a great deal despite its mediocre reviews. Unfortunately, sometimes the negative reviews hold more merit than the positive ones. I love the feel of the mouse, the shape of it and how it fits in my hand. Regrettably, the mouse wheel works intermittently or sometimes not at all on wireless, and clicking on the MMO buttons can cause the mouse to lock it. Because of the Synapse 2.0 tech, if you push the MMO button out of game, at least my experience with this mouse, you have to turn it off, and rehook it up back to the wired to get it working again. There are other points where it stops working, and it is also very prone to signal interruptions. This mouse unfortunately had a lot of potential on paper, but fell very short.

I'm RMA'ing the mouse back to Newegg, because it is defective.

Therefore, I'm asking for the help of you mouse enthusiasts if a similar-type mouse exists *within or under the $60 price range*. If not, I understand, some deals are too good to be true.

Otherwise, I appreciate the help!

I primarily play MMOs and have large hands. I have a Logitech M305 and V220 to use (which is small in many hand), but I have always appreciated the performance and tracking of the mouse. I do not lift often when I move the mouse, I often move along the mouse pad. I have a small hard mouse pad conducive to laser mice and with these 2 logitechs they never skip.

Thanks for help and ideas!


----------



## Artifact

@General Mars

MMO mice, to my knowledge, are limited to the following:

Razer Naga Standard/Epic/Hex/2012
Razer SWToR
Logitech G600
SteelSeries MMO/World of Warcraft/Cataclysm
Corsair M90/M95
Cyborg/Mad Catz M.M.O.7

If of course, that's what you meant by "similar-type". Out of these, the only ones I could find within $60 are the Razer Naga Hex and the Corsair M90, but I only really looked on Amazon. Having 11 buttons total, the Hex is only borderline "MMO" and the M90 has recently been "replaced" by the M95 (upgraded sensor, softer thumb buttons), which seems to explain the price drop.


----------



## General Mars

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artifact*
> 
> @General Mars
> 
> MMO mice, to my knowledge, are limited to the following:
> 
> Razer Naga Standard/Epic/Hex/2012
> Razer SWToR
> Logitech G600
> SteelSeries MMO/World of Warcraft/Cataclysm
> Corsair M90/M95
> Cyborg/Mad Catz M.M.O.7
> 
> If of course, that's what you meant by "similar-type". Out of these, the only ones I could find within $60 are the Razer Naga Hex and the Corsair M90, but I only really looked on Amazon. Having 11 buttons total, the Hex is only borderline "MMO" and the M90 has recently been "replaced" by the M95 (upgraded sensor, softer thumb buttons), which seems to explain the price drop.


You're right, I should have been more specific, I was merely referring to mice that had programmable buttons.

I appreciate you taking the time to look that up for me.

Has anyone used them? Are they any good? I'm primarily using the mouse for WoW, but I also have SC2, and a number of other games. That's why I'm looking for a mouse with programmable buttons for macros, but also one that slides well without skipping.


----------



## Artifact

"Programmable buttons" is just a marketing term. All buttons and keys on any mouse or keyboard are programmable if you set yourself to the task, especially in games like WoW.


----------



## General Mars

Ok extra buttons then







.

For the sake of specificity. I like to keep left and right click normal. (I program the mouse wheel on click in, so you again have a good point). I like the option of dedicated buttons setup similar to MMO mice. Hopefully that is better described.


----------



## Artifact

My first reply would seem to be right on the money then. If 8 extra buttons are enough for you, the Naga Hex is a solid performer for that price, and you get mechanical buttons and a thumb rest as a bonus over the other Naga flavors. Add $5 to your budget and you can get the Naga Molten or 2012, which has a full thumb grid like the SWToR mouse. I own a Molten and I'm loving it.


----------



## General Mars

How is the Synapse system with the other Razer mice? While I did not have the issues others did with the mouse resetting, I found the system as a whole somewhat annoying. It is not, however, a deal-breaker for me if it means I get a quality mouse.

Edit: I've also read that a lot of people have had issues with the buttons wearing out. I haven't had much experience with Razer as a reference so sorry for asking so many questions. Additionally, have you used any wireless? If so, IYO why is it so difficult to get a gaming mouse to match the tracking of my $15 logitech? (Or did I just have a fluke experience with my SWTOR mouse?)


----------



## Artifact

To be honest I'm quite out of the loop as to the whole Synapse deal, since I only ever use it to update the firmware and then uninstall it (the last time I had to do that was years ago). To me, it serves no other purpose, as I can set everything I need (macros, DPI, etc.) from within Windows, the games themselves or using AHK scripts.


----------



## General Mars

I appreciate the input


----------



## General Mars

So I looked at the Logitech G600 and G700 at BestBuy. I liked the way both of them felt. The G700 is wireless and the G600 is not. _I was wondering if anyone has used them, and if so their thoughts on them?_ I'm leaning towards picking up the G700, the prices are comparable and the G700 is wireless with 13 programmable buttons. Amazon has a refurbished G700 for $56, and a used G600 for $54.

I am wary of the Razer Naga as that is base of which SWTOR mouse was designed off of.


----------



## Artifact

Aside from my constant misclicking on buttons with the G600, it suffers from delay and pointer jerking issues-I had to return mine because of it-so I wouldn't recommend. I've not tried the G700, but the sensor (Avago A9500) isn't stellar either in my experience.

As for the Naga, you'll have none of the problems you ran into with the SWToR mouse. Wireless mice are notorious for having the kind of problems you mentioned, and the Naga Standard/2012/Hex is wired, plus I've never experienced this issue or heard of anyone else experiencing it, and I've read a plethora of reviews and user opinions.


----------



## sheepisready

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> just buy a g400 good value for quality


Brand new g400 arrived just today, I'm loving it, feels like it's y2k again. thank you very much for the suggestion.


----------



## MagicChicken

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around $40 is ideal. Over budget is okay.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably no prediction

7. Other relevant information:
Absolutely loved the Razer Salmosa in almost every way but the lack of side buttons is beginning to bug me. Perfect mouse for me otherwise.
Something with light weight, extra buttons, and is small in size would be great.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicChicken*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Around $40 is ideal. Over budget is okay.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Absolutely loved the Razer Salmosa in almost every way but the lack of side buttons is beginning to bug me. Perfect mouse for me otherwise.
> Something with light weight, extra buttons, and is small in size would be great.


*Storm Recon*

IMO with the Avago 3090 optical sensor 800-4000 DPI which ships angle snapping off, no prediction. $40 claw grip mouse.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicChicken*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Around $40 is ideal. Over budget is okay.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Absolutely loved the Razer Salmosa in almost every way but the lack of side buttons is beginning to bug me. Perfect mouse for me otherwise.
> Something with light weight, extra buttons, and is small in size would be great.


CM Storm Spawn, would be a good mouser for you.
The mouse its shape is 100 procent clawgrip very light and small mouse seems to be the best contender if you like the salmosa.
But if you want something more hybrid (all grip styles) then indeed the cm storm recon is the next option.


----------



## Assirra

1. What's your grip style?
Don't know the exact style but going with the deathadder for a couple years without trouble so that.

2. What's your sensitivity?
3500 although i use software to get it a bit lower (8/10 in the driver software)

3. What's your maximum budget?
Preferable 100dollar max. It will already be more considering the prices here.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
Noting specific, i play everything from FPS to RTS to RPG's.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Preferable none

7. Other relevant information:
Been using the Razer Deathadder for 2 years now and loving it but it seems its dying. While i could pick up a new one i would like another one, preferable from Logitech since my old mx518 went on for way longer and still works fine for backup.


----------



## NuFon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Assirra*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Don't know the exact style but going with the deathadder for a couple years without trouble so that.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3500 although i use software to get it a bit lower (8/10 in the driver software)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Preferable 100dollar max. It will already be more considering the prices here.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Noting specific, i play everything from FPS to RTS to RPG's.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferable none
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Been using the Razer Deathadder for 2 years now and loving it but it seems its dying. While i could pick up a new one i would like another one, preferable from Logitech since my old mx518 went on for way longer and still works fine for backup.


The deathadder 2013 or 3.5g. The logitech g400 doesnt track that well at those settings, it will jitter. Though the 3.5g should have a slightly noticable jitter aswell


----------



## Someguy316

Hi, I'm currently looking for a new mouse and decided that it's probably going to be a Zowie. I don't know if there's a specific Zowie thread for recommendations.

*1. What's your grip style?*

I'm not sure on my grip, I pretty much hold it like a palm grip but sometimes hold my fingers like the claw grip (more detail on the extra info part.)

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I've used the Razer Deathadder at 1800 dpi but I am actually preferring the 400 dpi on the Microsoft WMO.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

I would like to keep it under 70 USD shipped.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Two left side buttons preferred.

*5. What games do you play?*

Many FPS, RTS (mostly Age of Empires), MMOs; anything really.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't want prediction; looking for accuracy.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I'm really liking the Microsoft WMO's size and shape. The way I hold my mouse is the bottom part in my palm, index and middle finger tips on the buttons but the rest of the fingers arched back a bit so my whole hand isn't touching the mouse. About button activation force, I wouldn't mind something that needs more force as long as it doesn't add delay; we have a Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000 in the house that has a lot of delay on the middle mouse button. I also damaged my Deathadder's right mouse button by playing Sleeping Dogs, too much countering that it sometimes didn't respond to clicking. I would prefer not having to use drivers for the mouse.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> Hi, I'm currently looking for a new mouse and decided that it's probably going to be a Zowie. I don't know if there's a specific Zowie thread for recommendations.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> I'm not sure on my grip, I pretty much hold it like a palm grip but sometimes hold my fingers like the claw grip (more detail on the extra info part.)
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> I've used the Razer Deathadder at 1800 dpi but I am actually preferring the 400 dpi on the Microsoft WMO.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> I would like to keep it under 70 USD shipped.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Two left side buttons preferred.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> Many FPS, RTS (mostly Age of Empires), MMOs; anything really.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I don't want prediction; looking for accuracy.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> I'm really liking the Microsoft WMO's size and shape. The way I hold my mouse is the bottom part in my palm, index and middle finger tips on the buttons but the rest of the fingers arched back a bit so my whole hand isn't touching the mouse. About button activation force, I wouldn't mind something that needs more force as long as it doesn't add delay; we have a Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000 in the house that has a lot of delay on the middle mouse button. I also damaged my Deathadder's right mouse button by playing Sleeping Dogs, too much countering that it sometimes didn't respond to clicking. I would prefer not having to use drivers for the mouse.


If you dont mind the huano's switches wich are harder to press.
Then the zowie am should be good for you its a little wmo shape.
Only thing is its not 400 dpi it steps are 450/1150/2300.
But have a look at the logitech g400 aswell.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuFon*
> 
> The deathadder 2013 or 3.5g. The logitech g400 doesnt track that well at those settings, it will jitter. Though the 3.5g should have a slightly noticable jitter aswell


I would say at that dpi setting go for a deathadder 2013 if its still jitters set it at 125 hertz.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> If you dont mind the huano's switches wich are harder to press.
> Then the zowie am should be good for you its a little wmo shape.
> Only thing is its not 400 dpi it steps are 450/1150/2300.
> But have a look at the logitech g400 aswell.


Thanks, I was looking at the EC2 a while back but I guess the shape is different. I'm liking the look of the AM better than the g400, though I might wait on comparisons between the AM and the FK now.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> If you dont mind the huano's switches wich are harder to press.
> Then the zowie am should be good for you its a little wmo shape.
> Only thing is its not 400 dpi it steps are 450/1150/2300.
> But have a look at the logitech g400 aswell.


Thanks, I was looking at the EC2 a while back but I guess the shape is different. I'm liking the look of the AM better than the g400, though I might wait on comparisons between the AM and the FK now.


----------



## Bentz

As an owner of both the AM and the WMO, I can say that the shapes are not very similar. The AM is quite a bit smaller and the grip feels worse. The sides of the AM slant outwards, making it hard to pick up and just maneuver in general. If I were you, I'd wait for the FK.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bentz*
> 
> As an owner of both the AM and the WMO, I can say that the shapes are not very similar. The AM is quite a bit smaller and the grip feels worse. The sides of the AM slant outwards, making it hard to pick up and just maneuver in general. If I were you, I'd wait for the FK.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


I will do that for sure, thanks.


----------



## Hells

Hello!

*1. What's your grip style?*
Never thought about this previously. I'd say a version of fingertip, even when just browsing the net. I tend to rest my wrist down on the mousemat and grip the mouse from the sides with the tips of my thumb and fingers.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Currently using a 1000dpi (as far as I'm aware) Microsoft Comfort 4500 on default settings. Admittedly it's a tad sluggish and the scroll wheel is unwieldy, but I do like it for general use. I'd probably end up raising the sensitivity a bit for gaming.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Depends on what's available. £30 sounds nice, maybe up to £50-£60 if it's really worth spending that much.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, although due to the way I grip the mouse (or general incompetence







) I have difficulty using side buttons. This makes button layouts such as that of the Logitech G300 look more appealing, although I perhaps wouldn't have need for so many buttons. I don't mind side buttons being present if they don't get in the way, but I probably won't use them.

*5. What games do you play?*
Nothing at the moment as I'm still getting components together, but I'd like to get into Dota 2 and wouldn't mind giving Hawken and Planetside 2 a try. Other than that I could be playing virtually anything that's decent and takes my fancy. RPG, FPS, RTS, whatever.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No idea, not sure if I've ever experienced it. Does it have a significant effect? Sounds like something that might be annoying.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Looking for a decent sized mouse, have large-ish hands and long fingers. I have little experience with other mice, but my Microsoft 4500 feels comfortable.
Wired if possible.
Not too keen on the idea of a slippery gloss finish, not bothered about cosmetics otherwise.
I'd much prefer general all round comfortable use and reliability over anything too fancy.

I was thinking of a Logitech G300, but I've heard mixed reports. Is it worth considering?

Thanks.


----------



## Rumble111

After some suggestions in this thread I bought a kana. Good mouse doesn't fit my hand. I get a cramp across my knuckles and I tend to click the buttons to far towards the middle of the mouse, not near the end. I also feel it doesn't give the bridge below my knuckles anywhere to rest or grip.
Any suggestions?


----------



## Nacire

Well I finally settled on a 2013 DA and it's kind of what I was scared of in that I really feel like there is no where to put my ring finger and pinky. They are just kinda hanging there. This is after having used an Ikari for 3+ years. Oh well, this is the third mouse I've bought and I'm not returning this one. I'll just get used to it. Aside from that though, everything else feels really nice.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rumble111*
> 
> After some suggestions in this thread I bought a kana. Good mouse doesn't fit my hand. I get a cramp across my knuckles and I tend to click the buttons to far towards the middle of the mouse, not near the end. I also feel it doesn't give the bridge below my knuckles anywhere to rest or grip.
> Any suggestions?


You described your hand being too big for the Kana. Look for a bigger mouse. Like the G400 might work for you then.

*KANA*
Weight: 72 grams
Height: 37 mm (1.5 in)
Width: 64 mm (2.5 in)
Length: 124 mm (4.9 in)

*G400*
Weight: 137g
Height: 43mm (1.69 inch)
Width: 73mm (2.87 inch)
Length: 131mm (5.16 inch)

*DeathAdder 2013*
Weight: 105g
Height: 44mm (1.73 inch)
Width: 70mm (2.76 inch)
Length: 27mm (5.00 inch)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nacire*
> 
> Well I finally settled on a 2013 DA and it's kind of what I was scared of in that I really feel like there is no where to put my ring finger and pinky. They are just kinda hanging there. This is after having used an Ikari for 3+ years. Oh well, this is the third mouse I've bought and I'm not returning this one. I'll just get used to it. Aside from that though, everything else feels really nice.


Mionix NAOS 8200 has a shell that accommodates the entire hand laying on the mouse. It might just be you need a few weeks of re-adjusting to a new grip on the DA and you may not even notice soon.


----------



## Nacire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Mionix NAOS 8200 has a shell that accommodates the entire hand laying on the mouse. It might just be you need a few weeks of re-adjusting to a new grip on the DA and you may not even notice soon.


Yeah that is one of the mice I was looking at due to it's form factor. I think I may have chose a bit poorly for my personal tastes. My ring finger and pinky are already feeling fatigued about an hour into use on the DA. Oh well, aside from the form factor everything else feels quite nice. I like the texture quality of the mouse itself and the buttons all feel nice and clicky. The mouse wheel itself when you roll it up and down is much less clicky that I prefer, but it will do. I have noticed one minor thing and it may just be my cloth pad. From time to time it seems the sensor just quits responding to very tiny movements. A quick jerk and it snaps back to attention. Could this be a biproduct of a dirty cloth pad? Or is there something more serious at work. I haven't updated anything either, this is straight from the box.


----------



## Rumble111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> You described your hand being too big for the Kana. Look for a bigger mouse. Like the G400 might work for you then.
> 
> *KANA*
> Weight: 72 grams
> Height: 37 mm (1.5 in)
> Width: 64 mm (2.5 in)
> Length: 124 mm (4.9 in)
> 
> *G400*
> Weight: 137g
> Height: 43mm (1.69 inch)
> Width: 73mm (2.87 inch)
> Length: 131mm (5.16 inch)
> 
> *DeathAdder 2013*
> Weight: 105g
> Height: 44mm (1.73 inch)
> Width: 70mm (2.76 inch)
> Length: 27mm (5.00 inch)


Thanks dude, yeah i suspect the width is an issue - I wouldn't say I have large hands, my fingers aren't long, but I do have a wide hand I suppose. So now i'm looking at the G400, G9x and the Roccat Savu. 2 of those are quite cheap, so might be just a case of accepting the loss.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rumble111*
> 
> Thanks dude, yeah i suspect the width is an issue - I wouldn't say I have large hands, my fingers aren't long, but I do have a wide hand I suppose. So now i'm looking at the G400, G9x and the Roccat Savu. 2 of those are quite cheap, so might be just a case of accepting the loss.


Not the Savu it's going to be small I bet. G400


----------



## vibe123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> *G400*
> *Weight: 137g*
> Height: 43mm (1.69 inch)
> Width: 73mm (2.87 inch)
> Length: 131mm (5.16 inch)


AFAIK, Logitech G400 weighs about 105g without cable.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1037982/logitech-g400/40#post_13825854


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vibe123*
> 
> AFAIK, Logitech G400 weighs about 105g without cable.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1037982/logitech-g400/40#post_13825854












Also showing a good sale on Newegg for $35 at the moment of this post.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104577


----------



## Warsow

Is this batch prediction?


----------



## Vikhr

Unlikely that they have angle snapping, they haven't made angle snapping G400's for over a year.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warsow*
> 
> Is this batch prediction?


According to Skylit's Sensor list.
*G400*
Quote:


> Ships with Angle Snapping OFF after PID 13333. Rare to find one with Angle snapping ON as of 7/28/2012


----------



## Spykerv

1. What's your grip style?
Claw grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
$120

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes, I would ideally like atleast 4 side buttons for my right thumb to press

5. What games do you play?

fps and crpgs
6. Do you mind about prediction?
no

7. Other relevant information:
Good software like roccat plus or razers synapse. optional lighting might be nice.


----------



## GForceXIII

1. What's your grip style?
Mostly claw, but sometimes I use finger-tip. I would probably palm if I ever had a palm mouse.

2. What's your sensitivity?
mid-low

3. What's your maximum budget?
$80

4. Do you want additional buttons?
at least two

5. What games do you play?
fps, mmorpg, rts, and crpgs

6. Do you mind about prediction?
maybe

7. Other relevant information:
it has to be a right-handed mouse, something bigger than the storm spawn, and software with tons of options, I like fiddling with the settings.
Considering the budget, I'm from indonesia so I can't get it from newegg or probably any e-tailer. Everything sold here is priced close to MSRP.


----------



## dsmwookie

1. What's your grip style?

I don't know...how does one tell?

2. What's your sensitivity?

I m currently using a RAT 7 and adjustable DPI is nice.

3. What's your maximum budget?

$150-100; less is completely ok if it meets my demands.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Programmable and well positioned buttons are nice. I do like them strategically placed for good access and tactile or spaced properly so I can tell the difference without needing to look.

5. What games do you play?

Starcraft 2, Civ5, WoW, Farcry 3, Crysis 3, Bad Company...a lot of random games. Primarily RTSs' or MMOs' and the occasional FPS when at a LAN or just boredom.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I don't know. What is it?

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Braided cord is nice. I like programmable buttons as then I can customize the commands and macros according to my needs. Weight is a very big perk. I tend to like mouses that feel quality rather than plastic; i know this isn't always true, but it feels better in my head therefore it is. Wireless is only okay if its seamless for gaming and has the option to play while corded. I currently have a RAT 7 and enjoy the feel, weight, buttons (more is fine), and adaptability of it. I did have an MX Revolution and I enjoyed this mouse, but the battery life was short, it couldn't charge and be used, and it was not accurate enough. I would prefer something a little higher on the build quality although it was good enough and better precision.


----------



## Katana

1. What's your grip style?
I'm just working off the wording, but I think it's claw. I only touch the mouse with my fingertips when I'm gaming.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not exactly sure - it's probably not nearly as high as many people.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50 or so, and that's a high end.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I'm kind of thinking a minimum of 4 would be nice (one thumb button)

5. What games do you play?
Lots of Team Fortress 2, some indie games, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'm not entirely aware of what that is. It probably doesn't matter to me.

7. Other relevant information:
I'm getting my first non-****ty laptop soon. Since it's Bluetooth-enabled, I thought about getting a Bluetooth mouse; it just kind of seemed to make sense to me. I probably don't want to be messing with wires when I'm using it, and I don't think I want to have to bother plugging in a USB port. However, I know very little about the latest trends in mice connectivity, and wanted some advice on that end mainly; what would be something I could very easily throw into my bag, would be decent enough for FPSes (I don't think I'm super-intense about the precision of the mouse - I could probably do fine with most stock ones) and gets decent battery life?


----------



## Notwist

Hey everybody, here's my breakdown:

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, but I'd like to try and learn grip, as I've heard it allows for some finer control

2. What's your sensitivity?
Anywhere between 1400-1800 DPI, lately been liking 1600 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, two thumb buttons, as I use those for modifier keys. Also, sounds obvious, but middle mouse click is a requirement for the work I do.

5. What games do you play?
right now Starcraft 2, League of Legends, and I do alot of Photoshop/Compositing/3D work (of which I usually use my Wacom, but I don't like lugging that around in my laptop bag, so I usually use a mouse when I'm out and about)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes.

7. Other relevant information:

Ideally: no required drivers, or if drivers are required, they work well with Mac OSX (i.e., not Razer). I prefer not to support Razer, as I feel their business practices, build quality, and support to be dubious at best. Indifferent about wired or wireless.

Thanks for everybody's help! =D


----------



## VendettaRemix

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip, sometimes palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
1400-2400 dpi usually

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$45

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
It would be nice to at least have two thumb buttons for navigating webpages.

*5. What games do you play?*
Borderlands 2, Diablo III, Guild Wars 2

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
It can be annoying, so yes.

*7. Other relevant information:*
As of now, budget is everything for me. $45 is really all that i'd like to spend.
Color changing options would be nice. In addition, a weight tuning system would work as well (I like a heavier mouse.)
I'm not going to be gaming too much with this mouse, I am just looking for something fun to use while I surf the web and do productivity tasks.
Some options that I have been looking at on Amazon:
- Anker High Precision Gaming Mouse
- Logitech G500
- Logitech G9X (MW3 Edition)


----------



## kakee

Razer mamba 2012 or Razer Ouroboros









Mamba was best mice my hands but have to return it to amazon.


----------



## DavidCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VendettaRemix*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip, sometimes palm
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 1400-2400 dpi usually
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $45
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> It would be nice to at least have two thumb buttons for navigating webpages.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Borderlands 2, Diablo III, Guild Wars 2
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> It can be annoying, so yes.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> As of now, budget is everything for me. $45 is really all that i'd like to spend.
> Color changing options would be nice. In addition, a weight tuning system would work as well (I like a heavier mouse.)
> I'm not going to be gaming too much with this mouse, I am just looking for something fun to use while I surf the web and do productivity tasks.
> Some options that I have been looking at on Amazon:
> - Anker High Precision Gaming Mouse
> - Logitech G500
> - Logitech G9X (MW3 Edition)


go for the g9x ut wirjs great on hard pads or try cm spawn that another cheaps one


----------



## phillyd

Okay so I currently have a Mionix Naos 3200, and I like it, but I want a wireless mouse that is taller. I'm currently considering the Razer Naga Epic, but it isn't perfect for me. I use a Razer Goliathus Speed edition mousepad.

Criteria:
Matte finish in dark gray and/or black
Green LED's
Ergonomic grip: tall like a Deathadder, pinky/ring finger rests
7-10 buttons
Wireless (preferably with dock)
Anything above 3000 DPI will do.
Cheaper the better, but $100 or so is not out of the question (Naga Elite is $130)
No prediction preference

Other than the massive number of thumb buttons (and the price) the Naga Epic is perfect. I could get used to the extra buttons. I would just get the Mamba but it needs a pinky rest.


----------



## DNTL

Hey guys,

So I did a prelim research, then narrowed down to 3 mice: roccat xtd, roccat pure and mionix naos 5000.

I prefer the design of the pure most, but it is a tad shorter and lighter than the other 2. My problem is that I can only buy online so I can't test them out physically and have a feel for what they are like. My current mouce is ~12cm so I want something a little longer and heavier. I would prefer the roccats but the naos 5000 was designed to aid my pinky better so it is in the mix.

I'm quite lost as of which to choose. Please comment. Thanks.


----------



## phillyd

I have the Naos and other than it being short, it is perfect.


----------



## .Cerberus

I have been looking for a new mouse ever since my Logitech G9x broke. I used a Logitech G5 which was slightly too high for my hand when I palm it and then recently the G9x was was a bit too small. I usually alternate between palm and claw but I mostly use palm.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm main, claw secondary

2. What's your sensitivity?
At 6/11 450-800 DPI
At 2/11 2000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
85$ CDN + Tax - basically a Mionix NAOS 8200 budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
The usual 5 is nice, but I don't mind 7 - I don't want a Naga, G400 - way too many buttons

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, FPS like Borderlands 2, CSGO, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Err what exactly is this - still confused

7 Mousepad
Something to go along with the mouse that is picked

8. Other relevant information:
Right handed mouse which is ergonomic, not a fan of wireless. Something that wont get damaged by slightly sweaty hands

Current mouse is an X-Luca by Team Scorpion, this is how I hold it
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/20130219131629.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/20130219131648.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/20130219131636.jpg

Sorry I made another thread and completely missed this one.


----------



## BahamutZer0

Finally decided and ordered a Deathadder 2013 edition. I tried out a co-workers deathadder. I loved the shape and control just not the glossy sides. But the new version has the rubberized sides so I went with that.


----------



## OnurK

1. What's your grip style?

Finger-tip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

1500-2000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

The price doesn't really matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I never use the additional buttons on my mice actually

5. What games do you play?

I play DotA2 , RTS games, FPS but mostly DotA2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

What does this mean actually?

7. Other relevant information:

Thinking that I am 1.90 meters My fingers and hands are taller than average but they are really skinny.Thinking that I am 1.90 meters. I have logitech g300 It works fine for me but I feel like I need a change, I have goliathus speed edition.


----------



## MKUL7R4

1. What's your grip style?

A weird mixture of palm and claw--I could go either way but I think I prefer palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Looking for a minimum range of 800-3600 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

I wouldn't spend more than $60, including shipping

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I really don't need anything too fancy

5. What games do you play?

Dota 2, Starcraft 2

6. Other relevant information:

Omron switches, customizable LED lights, weight tuning and nice software would be cool

From my own personal research, I think the new Anker gaming mouse is really the only mouse that can fulfill all of this at the price point. Are there any other options I have overlooked? Thanks!


----------



## Keanulaszlo

*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw/Fingertip, I prefer claw.
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
My Razer Orochi is 2800 DPI.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Eh, don't really have a budget.
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
At least 2, 1 for Push to Talk, the other for a macro.
*5. What games do you play?*
TF2, WoW, Borderlands 2, CS:S
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Don't know what this is?
*7. Other relevant information*
I use my mouse for a lot of gaming, but I also to a lot of work with PSD, and other graphic programs.


----------



## strayakent

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/palm hybrid, i find the Sensei super comfortable but the super Deathadder uncomfortable.
2. What's your sensitivity?
1600
3. What's your maximum budget?
Eh, don't really have a budget.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side.
5. What games do you play?
League and sometimes FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yep
7. Other relevant information
No Logitech, how does the Roccat Savu do with claw grip? I know some people disagree.

Length: 21cm from wrist to finger tip.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strayakent*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw/palm hybrid, i find the Sensei super comfortable but the super Deathadder uncomfortable.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Eh, don't really have a budget.
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side.
> 5. What games do you play?
> League and sometimes FPS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yep
> 7. Other relevant information
> No Logitech, how does the Roccat Savu do with claw grip? I know some people disagree.
> 
> Length: 21cm from wrist to finger tip.


I find it terribly difficult to say if a mouse fits someone because everyone seems to grab them differently. However I'd _think_ the Savu would be very good for claw grip.


----------



## strayakent

Thanks for the recommendation Ino. can anyone else recommend?

I already have a lot of mice, just want a Savu too


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

I claw the savu myself


----------



## strayakent

Funniest yet best idea i've ever seen suggested to a claw user 

Wish Razer or Steelseries can make something like that, the CM mice are too small for me









So most people suggest Savu for claw? I hope you guys are right...


----------



## Belial

Looking for a new mouse, my steelseries kinzu is great but it's got plastic feet and i want to get used to teflon, smooth sliding feet on a good mouse. I've got claw grip, and I just play starcraft 2.

I mean my kinzu is great, just the plastic feet is the issue, it's a budget mouse. As far as I understand, none of the features really matter, it's all shape, so I'm looking for a good mouse at a good price. I see like the razer deathadder is $20-30 on ebay and amazon and such. Just don't really knwo what the choices are.

Thanks.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> Looking for a new mouse, my steelseries kinzu is great but it's got plastic feet and i want to get used to teflon, smooth sliding feet on a good mouse. I've got claw grip, and I just play starcraft 2.
> 
> I mean my kinzu is great, just the plastic feet is the issue, it's a budget mouse. As far as I understand, none of the features really matter, it's all shape, so I'm looking for a good mouse at a good price. I see like the razer deathadder is $20-30 on ebay and amazon and such. Just don't really knwo what the choices are.
> 
> Thanks.


How about buying better mouse feet? Best option if you like the Kinzu and only the feet suck.


----------



## Belial

Okay. Sure. Not sure where to look for that.

So why do people get new mice then? I was also considering just getting a nicer mouse but yea since mice are just the feel of it. Like I said I'm not too knowledgeable on mice. my hands aren't particularly small but they aren't large and i dont like large mice. I mean my kinzu is a nice size but maybe it could be a bit bigger.

i dont really know what to look at either. there seems to be 20 different mice just by razer alone. lachesis, mamba, naga, deathadder, i get they have very small differences in shape but cant quite see which is better than another.

and then it's like 2013 edition, 2012, there ar ea millionv ariations of each mouse. Does the infrared vs laser vs whatever even matter? dpi, all that stuff, i mean you set dpi basically as your sensitivity, and whatever dpi you settle on is what you use. I'm currently using a 1360x768 resolution, 400DPI, 6/11, so i couldnt imagine using 5000 dpi. I think i keep my sensitivity relatively low.


----------



## Belial

I think I'll buy a deathadder off ebay or something, I see them for $20-30. I hear it's a good mouse for claw grips, slightly bigger than kinzu.... just a good mouse, so i hear.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> I think I'll buy a deathadder off ebay or something, I see them for $20-30. I hear it's a good mouse for claw grips, slightly bigger than kinzu.... just a good mouse, so i hear.


Run the link by before you commit. Quite a bit of fakes.


----------



## Belial

there's so many of them, but okay.


----------



## Belial

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse-RZ01-00151400-/121075267230?pt=Mice&hash=item1c30a5f69e
This mouse seems to be the cheapest buy it now razer.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=razer+deathadder&_sop=15
Here's a list of razer deathadders on ebay. I'll likely bid up to $20-30 shipped on one of these, any of them really. Obviously the wfirst ripoffs are fakes, but the rest seem like legit 3.5g razer deathadders.


----------



## Ino.

FYI: http://www.overclock.net/t/1324292/warning-fake-deathadders-around


----------



## Belial

Wow I had not heard about that.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=razer+deathadder&_sop=15

I'll likely try to buy one for $20-30 off ebay here, used or something. Trying to see if I can spot any fakes. What about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAZER-DEATHADDER-3500-3-5G-INFRARED-GAMING-MOUSE-NEW-/261177237668?pt=Mice&hash=item3ccf6060a4
Box doesnt look like your real or fake.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251237303982?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Looks like a counterfeit based on the contents.


----------



## evilferret

My Rat 7 finally getting finicky so need an new mouse. Also any suggestions for a hard pad. Currently been using a Vespula.

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip for gaming/Palm for browsing.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Mid to low sens.

3. What's your maximum budget?

100ish hopefully including a new hard pad.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Prefer a back and forward function if possible but don't need more buttons.

5. What games do you play?

Moba/RTS/FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Nope. As long as the prediction is consistent I can get used to it.

Braided cords if possible!

Thanks all. Been out of the mouse market for awhile.

Ugh had to edit, totally forgot the grip styles.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> Wow I had not heard about that.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=razer+deathadder&_sop=15
> 
> I'll likely try to buy one for $20-30 off ebay here, used or something. Trying to see if I can spot any fakes. What about this one?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAZER-DEATHADDER-3500-3-5G-INFRARED-GAMING-MOUSE-NEW-/261177237668?pt=Mice&hash=item3ccf6060a4
> Box doesnt look like your real or fake.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251237303982?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> Looks like a counterfeit based on the contents.


Honestly, you can't tell if it will be counterfeit or not, I bought mine via an Amazon third party trader. That's why I only buy from shops I trust now.


----------



## Skylit

I can easily, but I need to see the actual mouse.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I can easily, but I need to see the actual mouse.


Yeah, I can too if I see the mouse, but with most of the sellers using stock photos it's hard to tell


----------



## Layo

1. What's your grip style?
All 3, palm least

2. What's your sensitivity?
No clue, doesn't really bother me but it's in the higher levels (always have to set lowest possible in games)

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70 would be ideal, can do $100, dont want to pay more.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Forwards and back will do
5. What games do you play?
LoL and shooter games mostly like BF3
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know what this is, using roccat kova now and used roccat kone + for while
7. Other relevant information:
Should be compitable with mac (will be buying MBPr later), colour shold be either black or white, no shinny colors, should last something, I have pretty large palms and short fingers. Preferrably no roccat mouses as all of them have problems with mouse wheel.
I was looking at deathadder or asus GX1000 (comes with free pad which I would like!). Seems like I don't really care about sensors as ussing the R kova is fine with me except the scroll wheel dying.
Please use this site to pick one http://www.heureka.cz/, price should be tops 1900 my money.


----------



## Belial

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321081245661?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I think I may end up going for this one, seller assures me it's gold plated, bought from newegg.


----------



## Belial

I hear the cm storm spawn is a better mouse than deathadder for claw?







pretty sure i claw grip. fingertip grip


----------



## failureinlife

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? >1000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? I don't mind with or without.

5. What games do you play? League of Legends and only League of Legends.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Not really.

7. Other relevant information: I'd prefer a light mouse with a braided cord. I prefer one with a matte finish, or one that is fingerprint resistant, since I'll have my hand on the mouse for hours at times.
PS, Don't bring up the Deathadder 2013, or any other razer products, they're utter ***** compared to other brands.


----------



## Trysaeder

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
13.1cm for 360 in FPS, 1.5x that for RTS

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70ish, but I'm willing to spend another $50 if the mouse will suit me well.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, preferably 3 thumb buttons like the G500

5. What games do you play?
BF3, Dota2, other FPS, RPGs

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, 0 prediction preferred.

7. Other relevant information:
Must have a place for my 4th finger to rest (aka not G9x style)
Should be smaller than G5v2 in length
Two thumb buttons with macro capabilities absolutely required (knife/nade and dota2 items)
Lighter weight preferred but not mandatory
Good coating (my Ikari looks looked it has leprosy after a few months, but my 5 year old G5v2's surface is fine)

Thinking of Corsair M65/M95 or Mionix 8200. Not sure if the Corsairs have a 4th finger rest spot, and the Mionix is pretty expensive where I am (AU$100), not to mention the new sensor that's common to both options (Avago 9800) being relatively unknown.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trysaeder*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 13.1cm for 360 in FPS, 1.5x that for RTS
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $70ish, but I'm willing to spend another $50 if the mouse will suit me well.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, preferably 3 thumb buttons like the G500
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> BF3, Dota2, other FPS, RPGs
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, 0 prediction preferred.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Must have a place for my 4th finger to rest (aka not G9x style)
> Should be smaller than G5v2 in length
> Two thumb buttons with macro capabilities absolutely required (knife/nade and dota2 items)
> Lighter weight preferred but not mandatory
> Good coating (my Ikari looks looked it has leprosy after a few months, but my 5 year old G5v2's surface is fine)
> 
> Thinking of Corsair M65/M95 or Mionix 8200. Not sure if the Corsairs have a 4th finger rest spot, and the Mionix is pretty expensive where I am (AU$100), not to mention the new sensor that's common to both options (Avago 9800) being relatively unknown.


Have a look at the cm storm:thumb: spawn, great little devil else if you dot mind a little bit of aceleration go for corsair m65.
Mionix is palm grip mouse.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *failureinlife*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? >1000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? I don't mind with or without.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends and only League of Legends.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not really.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I'd prefer a light mouse with a braided cord. I prefer one with a matte finish, or one that is fingerprint resistant, since I'll have my hand on the mouse for hours at times.
> PS, Don't bring up the Deathadder 2013, or any other razer products, they're utter ***** compared to other brands.


CM Storm Spawn, light, dont show youre fingerprints nice rubber sides and good sensor.
Else have a look at the roccat savu aswell a very good mouse for claw.


----------



## Belial

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/Claw


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











2. What's your sensitivity? 6/11, 400DPI on a 1360x768 monitor (resolution affects sensitivity right? I think i play on low sensitivity, especially since I currently have a steelseries kinzu which has cheap plastic feet so it feels much slower than what it really is).

3. What's your maximum budget? $20-30 ideally but maybe up to $50, but I have no qualms or illusions about buying used, ebay, etc.

4. Do you want additional buttons? No

5. What games do you play? Starcraft 2 and only starcraft 2. And I'll only play sc2 for at least the next 5+ years.

6. Do you mind about prediction? I dunno, I mean obviously you dont want something like prediction but is it even noticeable?

7. Other relevant information: I got a steelseries kinzu. Works great but I want a quality mouse, this mouse has cheap plastic feet, and is a little small so I'm ready for a big boy mouse now. I think I like smaller mice, but the kinzu might just be a tad small for me.

I'm currently really looking at the deathadder but I hear it's a palm grip mouse, not claw? So... i dunno *** im doing. I mean a mouse is best determined by how comfortable it feels right, so whatever right? That and the sensor, as long as the sensor doesn't suck, but my kinzu has been fine for me (i think..).

The deathadder I'm looking at, I'm assured by the seller it's gold plated.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/Claw
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 6/11, 400DPI on a 1360x768 monitor (resolution affects sensitivity right? I think i play on low sensitivity, especially since I currently have a steelseries kinzu which has cheap plastic feet so it feels much slower than what it really is).
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $20-30 ideally but maybe up to $50, but I have no qualms or illusions about buying used, ebay, etc.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? No
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Starcraft 2 and only starcraft 2. And I'll only play sc2 for at least the next 5+ years.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I dunno, I mean obviously you dont want something like prediction but is it even noticeable?
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I got a steelseries kinzu. Works great but I want a quality mouse, this mouse has cheap plastic feet, and is a little small so I'm ready for a big boy mouse now. I think I like smaller mice, but the kinzu might just be a tad small for me.
> 
> I'm currently really looking at the deathadder but I hear it's a palm grip mouse, not claw? So... i dunno *** im doing. I mean a mouse is best determined by how comfortable it feels right, so whatever right? That and the sensor, as long as the sensor doesn't suck, but my kinzu has been fine for me (i think..).
> 
> The deathadder I'm looking at, I'm assured by the seller it's gold plated.


Roccat Savu







but kinda out of youre budget, mabay have a look at a xornet or cm storm spawn its more claw then fingertip but great mouse overal if you dont use high dpi settings


----------



## Belial

Roccat Savu is definitely within budget on ebay/used/etc. I dont trust roccat, they sell non-mechanical keyboards for over $60,they seem like they sell total crap and overcharge for it. If the roccat savu is a good mouse, I'll consider it, but I've never even heard of it before...
Quote:


> xornet or cm storm spawn its more claw then fingertip but great mouse overal if you dont use high dpi settings


how is a mouse more claw than fingertip? Aren't they basically the exact same thing? Who in the world does a 'claw' fingertip and not fingertip? i hear a lot of issues with both the xornet and spawn though.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1138575/cm-spawn-or-xornet-what-are-the-differences/200_100


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> Roccat Savu is definitely within budget on ebay/used/etc. I dont trust roccat, they sell non-mechanical keyboards for over $60,they seem like they sell total crap and overcharge for it. If the roccat savu is a good mouse, I'll consider it, but I've never even heard of it before...
> how is a mouse more claw than fingertip? Aren't they basically the exact same thing? Who in the world does a 'claw' fingertip and not fingertip? i hear a lot of issues with both the xornet and spawn though.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1138575/cm-spawn-or-xornet-what-are-the-differences/200_100


The roccat is really class, uses the all know avago 3090 and has decent malfunction speeds even at higher dpi steps.
Tracking is class and feels better then the deathadder.
If you love the shape its a super mouse. But is more orientated for mid sized hands you can claw fingertip and palm it but clawing feels the most comfortable for me at the moment.

Here is a review of arizonian

http://www.overclock.net/t/1352257/roccat-savu-review/0_100

and here is the thread of the roccat savu

http://www.overclock.net/t/1247825/new-roccat-savu-optical-mouse/0_100

con of the mouse is that the side grips wear out but is goes very consitent and it isnt a dealbreaker without the sandy grips its feels even better.
Only the mouse will look used earlier.


----------



## 161029

*Q. What's your grip style?*
A. Fingertip.

*Q. What's your sensitivity?*
A. No idea.

*Q. What's your maximum budget?*
A. $60-70.

*Q. Do you want additional buttons?*
A. It wouldn't hurt to have any (no preference).

*Q. What games do you play?*
A. Third-Person Shooters (Twin-Stick Shooters), First-Person Shooters, Action-Adventure, Platform, Puzzle, RPG (trying out Risk of Rain; Great game).

*Q. Do you mind about prediction?*
A. Yes. I'd prefer having as little prediction as possible or no prediction at all.

*Q. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

I'd prefer no acceleration (positive or negative: this basically screams optical) and the mouse be wired. Adjustable DPI would be nice (not sure what mice don't have that). The mouse should have fairly good build quality.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> *Q. What's your grip style?*
> A. Fingertip.
> 
> *Q. What's your sensitivity?*
> A. No idea.
> 
> *Q. What's your maximum budget?*
> A. $60-70.
> 
> *Q. Do you want additional buttons?*
> A. It wouldn't hurt to have any (no preference).
> 
> *Q. What games do you play?*
> A. Third-Person Shooters (Twin-Stick Shooters), First-Person Shooters, Action-Adventure, Platform, Puzzle, RPG (trying out Risk of Rain; Great game).
> 
> *Q. Do you mind about prediction?*
> A. Yes. I'd prefer having as little prediction as possible or no prediction at all.
> 
> *Q. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> I'd prefer no acceleration (positive or negative: this basically screams optical) and the mouse be wired. Adjustable DPI would be nice (not sure what mice don't have that). The mouse should have fairly good build quality.


The most advised fingertip mouse is the Razer abyssus shape wise, but if you prefer sensor over shape and have mid sized hands have a look at the roccat savu.
If you dont mice acceleration you could go for a Logitech 9x and there is awell the CM Storm Xornet or Spawn.
So you need to make some decisions yourself if you want extra side buttons the abyssus has none.
Savu is praised now for its sensor and is shaped for all gripstyles but you hands must be not bigger then mid sized hands.
After that I would advise you the CM Storm Spawn but if you play on higher dpi settings go for the logitech 9x.
Yes with the logitech you will have some acceleration, but you wont have low malfunction speeds as with the cm storm spawn on higher dpi steps then.
Savu behaves well on all dpi steps btw.

GL choosing and let me know what you picked


----------



## Belial

okay so im thinking going with the spawn instead of deathadder (i have fingertip grip, or claw (does anyone really 'claw' it?)). They are both the same price at the right place (~$28).

edit: i hear the storm has a ton of sensor issues and problems?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> The most advised fingertip mouse is the Razer abyssus shape wise, but if you prefer sensor over shape and have mid sized hands have a look at the roccat savu.
> If you dont mice acceleration you could go for a Logitech 9x and there is awell the CM Storm Xornet or Spawn.
> So you need to make some decisions yourself if you want extra side buttons the abyssus has none.
> Savu is praised now for its sensor and is shaped for all gripstyles but you hands must be not bigger then mid sized hands.
> After that I would advise you the CM Storm Spawn but if you play on higher dpi settings go for the logitech 9x.
> Yes with the logitech you will have some acceleration, but you wont have low malfunction speeds as with the cm storm spawn on higher dpi steps then.
> Savu behaves well on all dpi steps btw.
> 
> GL choosing and let me know what you picked


Thanks. I forgot to throw in that I switch between full fingertip and a palm/fingertip hybrid. I'm using a crappy Logitech Click! Optical which seems to be a palm grip mouse and it works fine for me for fingertip and the palm/fingertip hybrid I use, so that might end up opening up a few more options. I'll try to take a photo tomorrow so you can see.

How large would mid-sized be considered?


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Thanks. I forgot to throw in that I switch between full fingertip and a palm/fingertip hybrid. I'm using a crappy Logitech Click! Optical which seems to be a palm grip mouse and it works fine for me for fingertip and the palm/fingertip hybrid I use, so that might end up opening up a few more options. I'll try to take a photo tomorrow so you can see.
> 
> How large would mid-sized be considered?


just go for savu, if youre hand size is medium sized.
If bigger you can have a look at Razer Deathadder.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> just go for savu, if youre hand size is medium sized.
> If bigger you can have a look at Razer Deathadder.


My hands fall under medium at a diameter of 3.5 inches.

I've seen some inconsistency with build quality of the Deathadder for some reason (although most people seem to say that it's fine around here). That's slightly concerning. Having to use Synapse 2.0 isn't that great to me but there's nothing really that's wrong with it. Also heard some inconsistencies with the Savu's build quality...

Just started looking at the G400 and Zowei's mice.

Edit: here are 2 photos. Sorry for the horrible quality but you should be able to get an idea of my grips.

Fingertip


Fingertp/palm hybrid (fingertip but with the palm in contact)


I often switch between the 2. I use the hybrid if I want to quickly swipe the mouse for just moving the pointer quickly and just fingertip for more precision.


----------



## simsas18

1. What's your grip style?
Claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
My current Logitech MX400 is 800dpi, though I prefer a bit higher.
3. What's your maximum budget?
50-60 dollars
4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least two on side (back/forward)
5. What games do you play?
TF2, CS:GO, other FPSs and Minecraft
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know what this means.
7. Other relevant information:
I really like my current Logitech MX400 shape, so new one should be of similar shape.


----------



## a_ak57

*Q. What's your grip style?*
A: Fingertip in terms of shape, but 6 points of contact like claw (like the second picture HybridCore posted here)

*Q. What's your sensitivity?*
A: Fairly low, maybe 25cm/360 (usually set DPI to 800 and put in-game sensitivity to low)

*Q. What's your maximum budget?*
A. Not really an issue, so I guess I'll just say $100

*Q. Do you want additional buttons?*
A: Must have side buttons, DPI button(s) would be a bonus but not necessary

*Q. What games do you play?*
A: FPS, third-person action and such

*Q. Do you mind about prediction?*
A: Yeah, I want an accurate mouse.

*Q. Other relevant information:*
A: No acceleration would be good due to lower sensitivity. Not a fan of incredibly contoured mice, probably more of an ambidextrous fan. According to the hand size pic posted here I have larger hands (about 4" in diameter). Comfort is pretty important, as I'm switching from a Storm Spawn since I just don't like how short it is (forces me into pure fingertip rather than my hybrid). Same with the G9x. Features like customizable DPI and such would be nice, but comfort and accuracy are my primary concerns.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> *Q. What's your grip style?*
> A: Fingertip in terms of shape, but 6 points of contact like claw (like the second picture HybridCore posted here)
> 
> *Q. What's your sensitivity?*
> A: Fairly low, maybe 25cm/360 (usually set DPI to 800 and put in-game sensitivity to low)
> 
> *Q. What's your maximum budget?*
> A. Not really an issue, so I guess I'll just say $100
> 
> *Q. Do you want additional buttons?*
> A: Must have side buttons, DPI button(s) would be a bonus but not necessary
> 
> *Q. What games do you play?*
> A: FPS, third-person action and such
> 
> *Q. Do you mind about prediction?*
> A: Yeah, I want an accurate mouse.
> 
> *Q. Other relevant information:*
> A: No acceleration would be good due to lower sensitivity. Not a fan of incredibly contoured mice, probably more of an ambidextrous fan. According to the hand size pic posted here I have larger hands (about 4" in diameter). Comfort is pretty important, as I'm switching from a Storm Spawn since I just don't like how short it is (forces me into pure fingertip rather than my hybrid). Same with the G9x. Features like customizable DPI and such would be nice, but comfort and accuracy are my primary concerns.


Sounds like Roccat Savu would fit you, although it is an ergonomic mouse (slightly contoured), otherwise Zowie AM or FK should be good.


----------



## a_ak57

The Savu looks interesting, but I kinda feel like it'd be too small. Doing some more research, it's a shame that the Sensei Raw isn't optical since it seems like it'd be great otherwise. I think I'll probably end up going with one of the Zowie mice, though I really wish I could try them out in person.


----------



## Skylit

Sensei raw is "optical laser"


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Sensei raw is "optical laser"


LOL.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Sounds like Roccat Savu would fit you, although it is an ergonomic mouse (slightly contoured), otherwise Zowie AM or FK should be good.


The only gripe I have against the Savu is the fact that it's one of the more expensive well performing optical mice. On Newegg (MSRP and current price they offer at) it is by far the most expensive mouse in comparison to other offerings like the Zowie AM, Logitech G400, and Razer Deathadder (2013 edition and 2012).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> LOL.
> The only gripe I have against the Savu is the fact that it's one of the more expensive well performing optical mice. On Newegg (MSRP and current price they offer at) it is by far the most expensive mouse in comparison to other offerings like the Zowie AM, Logitech G400, and Razer Deathadder (2013 edition and 2012).


Hm, in Germany it's the same price as the Zowie FK, but much less than the DA 2013. Of course G400 is way cheaper still, but somehow I like the Savu better, the buttons on the G400 were kind of mushy. Still, bang for buck the G400 wins every time.


----------



## CamSpy

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertips
2. What's your sensitivity?
I now use 800 dpi, but i would prefer the adjustable/selectable DPI options to try higher ones
3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't have a max budget, but i'm looking to get a decent modern mouse, that's started producing this year or the last months of 2012
4. Do you want additional buttons?
don't use now, but they might come handy I think
5. What games do you play?
Hardcore FPS: BF3, Crysis 3, Far Cry 3
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I want to have no prediction or close to none, or ON/OFF switchable prediction in driver/software if such exists
7. Other relevant information:
My hand is large
I use right hand for mouse
I want wired mouse
I don't want glossy finish to avoid sliding
I would like to try macros, to make armor enchance in Crysis 3 at once when i Aim
Mouse shoud be of good build quality, do not tear off quick

I now use the good old Logitech G5 Laser Mouse and kind of like the shape of it, but I'm not playing good enough with it in comparison to wireless Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX that I have with my laptop.
I liked the review and specs of Roccat Savu mouse, but I'm not sure if it is good for large hand and fingertips grip style.

If possible, give me at least 2-3 options, since I will be ordering internationally and it may be difficult to find the only model with shipping to my country.

Also, with the recommendations, please recommend me a decent mouse pad that would work good in pair with the mouse.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CamSpy*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertips
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I now use 800 dpi, but i would prefer the adjustable/selectable DPI options to try higher ones
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Don't have a max budget, but i'm looking to get a decent modern mouse, that's started producing this year or the last months of 2012
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> don't use now, but they might come handy I think
> 5. What games do you play?
> Hardcore FPS: BF3, Crysis 3, Far Cry 3
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I want to have no prediction or close to none, or ON/OFF switchable prediction in driver/software if such exists
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My hand is large
> I use right hand for mouse
> I want wired mouse
> I don't want glossy finish to avoid sliding
> I would like to try macros, to make armor enchance in Crysis 3 at once when i Aim
> Mouse shoud be of good build quality, do not tear off quick
> 
> I now use the good old Logitech G5 Laser Mouse and kind of like the shape of it, but I'm not playing good enough with it in comparison to wireless Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX that I have with my laptop.
> I liked the review and specs of Roccat Savu mouse, but I'm not sure if it is good for large hand and fingertips grip style.
> 
> If possible, give me at least 2-3 options, since I will be ordering internationally and it may be difficult to find the only model with shipping to my country.
> 
> Also, with the recommendations, please recommend me a decent mouse pad that would work good in pair with the mouse.


I have the Savu and can recommend it, my hands are rather large too. G400 would be the better alternative of the G5.
Depending on your sensitivity the Zowie AM/FK should be good too.


----------



## CamSpy

What about
Razer DeathAdder 2013
Steelseries Sensei
CM Storm Sentinel Advance II
Mionix NAOS 8200
?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> LOL.


Well it is


----------



## PhantomTaco

Would love to get a recommendation from you guys if possible:

1. What's your grip style?
I'm not sure how i fit, I tend to rest the back end of my palm on the mouse, and finger curve in slightly onto the left and right click. Not quite claw grip...but I don't think it's quite palm either
2. What's your sensitivity?
Around 5000dpi when in desktop mode, and 2000 ish when gaming.
3. What's your maximum budget?
None.
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Bare minimum two shoulder buttons on the left side
5. What games do you play?
Varied (bf3, fc3, crysis 3, skyrim, tomb raider, xcom etc)
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not paritcularly, but the ability to turn it off would be preferable
7. Other relevant information:
I have big hands, currently using a G700, would like it to have on the fly dpi switches, wired and/or wireless, built in memory is preferable.

I was looking at the Kone XTD but some people were telling me it isn't very good...


----------



## yashau

Deathadder 2013 sounds perfect for you.


----------



## shish0000

Hi guys,
I've been a console gamer most of my life (don't judge me) reserving the computer for strategy games like age of empires, Rome etc. I've decided to give computer gaming a serious go tho so want my first real gaming mouse.

1. What's your grip style?
Having a look at a guide I think I'm somewhere between palm and fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
No idea really
3. What's your maximum budget?
Not really on a huge budget just want good value really. As it's an entry thing I doubt it's worth spending loads on it
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I like the idea of the sniping button on the RAT mouse other than that I don't know really
5. What games do you play?
Going to try a bit of everything really but lots if strategy and FPS ( cannot wait to get stuck in to crysis)
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Erm no idea what this is really
7. Other relevant information:
Wireless would be nice as I like a clean looking desk. Also don't want anything too flashy. Preferably black but can cope with a touch of orange

Thanks


----------



## yuiopwnz

Hi guys.
I have razer abyssus. Nice mouse. But if i play long, my hand start to hurt (mostly my little finger). Need comfortable mouse for long play. Brush is thin, fingers are long.
1. What's your grip style?
*Claw grip*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*3500 dpi, 8/10 sensivity at razer abyssus driver*
3. What's your maximum budget?
*100$*
4. Do you want additional buttons?
*No*
5. What games do you play?
*Starcraft 2*
6. Do you mind about prediction?
*Logitech g9x, CM Strorm Xornet (coz use claw grip), Razer Deathadder 3500 (looks so cool and comfortable), Corsair Vengeance M60 (like corsair company, but mouse looks heavy), Logitech g600 white (nice form, have place for ring finger, but i don't need 12 additional buttons). Mostly want to buy deathadder or corsair, but don't know how will it work with my grip.*
7. Other relevant information:
*Small wieght, maximum ergonomic for long play.*
Sorry for my english. Thanks.


----------



## thelolly76

Hi everybody,

For the moment I've got a Razer Imperator but she's dying ... and I need to change it before it's to late.
So I'll need your help.

1. What's your grip style?
palm grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
3500-4600 dpi
3. What's your maximum budget?
100€
4. Do you want additional buttons?
why not ...
5. What games do you play?
FPS and sometimes skyrim and stuff like that
6. Do you mind about prediction?
??? (what do you think about the Corsair M60/65 ???)
7. Other relevant information:
Ergonomic for long game.

If you have questions, ask me ...


----------



## Heafmo

Originally Posted by F u r u y Ã¡
1. What's your grip style?
Been using CopperHead pretty much since release, so looking for a V shape fingertip/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not sure how you mean, but Currently the easiest transition to another mouse would be for it to include an 800DPI step, but I'm open mnded in this regard.

3. What's your maximum budget?
£70 preferably £50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Side 2 side buttons aka Copperhead

5. What games do you play?
Quake, Starcraft, LoL

6. Do you mind about prediction? I'd rather not but I may be able to cope with mild amounts.

7. Other relevant information:
programmable keys are nice but I'm really looking for something flawless, what I've listed above should be sufficient. I've been looking at the Zowie FK, Sensei, CM storm Spawn/Xornet. Ideally I'd wait for bst's mouse. I've tried DeathAdder, Black Element and abyssus and they're all just in some way AWFUL next to my seemingly trusty Copperhead (which I know isn't flawless but it's the standard to which I've been accustomed for nearly 10 year.)


----------



## willll162904

1. palm/swipe

2. high

3. $100

4. no

5. fps mainly

6. rather not have it

7. Other relevant information: i have very small hands so i NEED this mouse to be very small and very low. i cant stand tall mice

also i coming from using a small hp mouse taht came with my hp rig


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willll162904*
> 
> 1. palm/swipe
> 
> 2. high
> 
> 3. $100
> 
> 4. no
> 
> 5. fps mainly
> 
> 6. rather not have it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: i have very small hands so i NEED this mouse to be very small and very low. i cant stand tall mice
> 
> also i coming from using a small hp mouse taht came with my hp rig


The Zowie eVo is small, but its custom lense, which lowers lift-off distance, lowers its maximum speed before malfunction.


----------



## RZ Ezee

1. What's your grip style? Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? Mid I guess

3. What's your maximum budget? ~£75

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes.

5. What games do you play? Quite a few fps games, Minecraft, League of Legends

6. Do you mind about prediction? Rather not have it.

7. Other relevant information: Relatively lightweight.


----------



## Evil Monkey

1. What's your grip style?

Slight Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

1600 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

≤ 150

4. Do you want additional buttons?

No fussed really

5. What games do you play?

Mostly FPS'

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Don't think so

7. Other relevant information:

Prefer a heavier mouse and definitely want wired

Thanks in advance


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RZ Ezee*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Mid I guess
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? ~£75
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Quite a few fps games, Minecraft, League of Legends
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Rather not have it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Relatively lightweight.


If you like palming ergonomic mice:

roccat savu: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 90g (without cable), picky with mouse pads

zowie EC1 evo: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 97g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps

zowie EC2 evo: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 93g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps

if you like palming ambidextrous mice:

SS sensei raw: no prediction but has minor acceleration, 7 buttons, 90g (without cable)

zowie am: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 88g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps

zowie fk: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 84g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps

If you give me more information such as if 100g+ mice would bother you and any additional information in your preferences. It's hard to give you a good honest answer without more information.


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Slight Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1600 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> ≤ 150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> No fussed really
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Mostly FPS'
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Don't think so
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Prefer a heavier mouse and definitely want wired
> 
> Thanks in advance


If you want to keep using 1600 dpi setting I would recommend:

Deathadder 2013 or older models: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),112g (without cable), 5 programmable buttons

g400: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),106g (without cable), 8 programmable buttons

CM storm recon: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),102g (without cable), 7 programmable buttons

ss sensei: no prediction but has minor acceleration, 102g (without cable), 7 programmable buttons

See if you like those shapes







. I can give you more options if you would move from 1600dpi.


----------



## RZ Ezee

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joshvr*
> 
> If you like palming ergonomic mice:
> 
> roccat savu: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 90g (without cable), picky with mouse pads
> 
> zowie EC1 evo: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 97g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps
> 
> zowie EC2 evo: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 93g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps
> 
> if you like palming ambidextrous mice:
> 
> SS sensei raw: no prediction but has minor acceleration, 7 buttons, 90g (without cable)
> 
> zowie am: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 88g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps
> 
> zowie fk: great tracking no prediction or acceleration, 5 buttons, 84g (without cable), requires more force to activate buttons then average mice, only has 3 dpi steps
> 
> If you give me more information such as if 100g+ mice would bother you and any additional information in your preferences. It's hard to give you a good honest answer without more information.






Is there any noticeable difference between the weight of these and a 100g+ mouse?


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RZ Ezee*
> 
> Is there any noticeable difference between the weight of these and a 100g+ mouse?


For me personally I can feel the difference between a 90g and 100g mouse, you might not.

I should have given you the 100g+ mice that are very good, but I consider sightly too heavy.

Deathadder: very good tracking,112g (3.5g version) 105g (2013 version), 5 programmable buttons

g400: very good tracking, 106g, 8 programmable buttons

These are the mice I can think of that have consistent performance, just see if you like the shapes. If you don't I can give you other mice I don't think are as good for gaming but the shape might be more compatible for you. One more question that might help







, What mice have you used that you consider light/heavy?


----------



## Evil Monkey

How is the shape on the Sensei?

I noticed it was ambidextrous, does this sacrifice how comfortable it is to a right handed gamer?


----------



## Evil Monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joshvr*
> 
> If you want to keep using 1600 dpi setting I would recommend:
> 
> Deathadder 2013 or older models: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),112g (without cable), 5 programmable buttons
> 
> g400: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),106g (without cable), 8 programmable buttons
> 
> CM storm recon: consistent tracking (no acceleration or prediction),102g (without cable), 7 programmable buttons
> 
> ss sensei: no prediction but has minor acceleration, 102g (without cable), 7 programmable buttons
> 
> See if you like those shapes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I can give you more options if you would move from 1600dpi.


I am willing to budge of 1600 DPI its just the current one I'm using so its more preferential.

This might be a bit of a nub question but how does what DPI you play at affect what mouse you buy?


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> I am willing to budge of 1600 DPI its just the current one I'm using so its more preferential.
> 
> This might be a bit of a nub question but how does what DPI you play at affect what mouse you buy?


It does because some mice track better at certain dpi than other settings, but some dpi settings on mice are unusable. If you are after more performance you might use a certain dpi on the mouse and adjust using in-game sensitivity. how many inches/cm in-game does it take you to do a 360 turn?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> How is the shape on the Sensei?
> 
> I noticed it was ambidextrous, does this sacrifice how comfortable it is to a right handed gamer?


It doesn't depending on how you grip the mouse, for example people who palm their mice normally prefer ergonomic mice and people who claw/fingertip normally prefer ambidextrous mice (http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic).

Its a nice shape for claw but also for palm. What mice have you used that you like the shape of?


----------



## tensionz

I've had good success with both the G400 and the Razer DeathAdder (original version, I'm sure the new one is great). I used them mainly for FPS and would pick the G400 for smaller hand/DeathAdder for bigger hand size. Both comfortable but different shapes so look into before purchasing.


----------



## jamor

1. What's your grip style?

Claw, small hands

2. What's your sensitivity?

High

3. What's your maximum budget?

Money is no object

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At least 2 buttons on the left

5. What games do you play?

Dota 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I dont know


----------



## Evil Monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joshvr*
> 
> It does because some mice track better at certain dpi than other settings, but some dpi settings on mice are unusable. If you are after more performance you might use a certain dpi on the mouse and adjust using in-game sensitivity. how many inches/cm in-game does it take you to do a 360 turn?


It takes about 5.5 cm to do a full 360 in PS2
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joshvr*
> 
> It doesn't depending on how you grip the mouse, for example people who palm their mice normally prefer ergonomic mice and people who claw/fingertip normally prefer ambidextrous mice (http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic).
> 
> Its a nice shape for claw but also for palm. What mice have you used that you like the shape of?


At the moment I'm using a Roccat Kone [+] which is actually broken-ish and the distributor won't take it back. I'm gripping it like this


http://imgur.com/0xLuH

 which isn't the most comfortable but its what I'm used to.


----------



## DaBearZ

*1.What's your grip style?* Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 6/11 windows, 1800dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?* The cheaper the better as long as the mice meets the requirements

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, preferably 1 or 2 on the left side, don't mind if it doesn't have on the right, and if it does have it must be well positioned in order to not make it uncomfortable

*5. What games do you play?* MMO/MOBA

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer no prediction, but if it does have it can't be too heavy

*7. Other relevant information*: I currently use a DA Black Edition and in terms of shape it suits my hand but I feel it's too big. Basically I like the ergonomic style, the mice has to be big enough to allow room for my "ring finger" to rest (mices like Kinzu v2 or Logitech G400 don't allow room for it) but not too big in length/height.
Mices that I know it suit my handle style but for some reason I don't like them: DA (bit too big); Logitech G9X (sensor jitters hard); Steelseries Xai (acceleration very noticeable).
I don't know if there's any mice around but for reference I do love Huano switches, tried them on a Zowie Mico and they felt great, too bad the mice is too small.

I know i'm very picky when it comes to this, its just due to my tendency to develop carpel tunnel due to long periods at the computer i really need to find, in some way, the most comfortable mice possible.
Hope someone can help me out.

EDIT: Something i forgot to mention, the mice is to be used on a cloth mousepad (Razer Goliathus) so good tracking on it is a must.


----------



## test user

^ You tried Zowie EC2? It's basically the only option if you want a smaller DA.


----------



## DaBearZ

I haven't tried the EC2 evo, but doesn't it have issues with colored cloth pads or something? Having Huano switches is a bonus when considering it!


----------



## test user

Yeah, I hear people say it performs worse on those. On uniform pads it should work great, though, and I can tell I have no problems with my QCK. Up to you if you are ready to buy a new pad for it, it's not like a good gaming pad would cost that much


----------



## InVicT2009

1. What's your grip style?
I can adapt to anything but i prefer palm.

2. What's your sensitivity?
800-1200 dpi 6/11 Ws

3. What's your maximum budget?
60€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes 2 on the side

5. What games do you play?
LOL and BF3 mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
I had g400, great mouse , switches tend to soften over time, somehow i didnt find as precise at fps as my avago 3090 mices(deathadder,rat3).
Currently i have Savu, really impressive build quality, only some tear at the left side grip, buttons construction is top notch , both require the same pressure, THIS is crucial, on my da 2013 the left button was much stifer than the right one(the button conects to the switches at diferent hights).

Savu after 8 months has 700k clicks on the left switch , and 7 million on the right, and they are still working properly with no major diference in feel.
Im getting tired of savu because its a really small mouse, and i can only claw it .

I loved the deathadder grip, the precision , but, i felt it was poor built, and the interface between the buttons and the switches were crap, making them double click after some time .

I want the precision and the shape of the deathader (or similiar), a little bit smaller, and with the construction quality of the savu(buttons mostly).

Zowie am seems like a solid choice , but i would love a second opinion.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## test user

^ You liked DA shape, why not go Zowie EC1 instead of AM? It's got great build quality (if you get one with good scroll wheel, those apparently tend to skip) and it's same shape as DA


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> It takes about 5.5 cm to do a full 360 in PS2


Having a higher sensitivity gives you more options in mice because you won't be limited by certain mice or dpi steps.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Monkey*
> 
> At the moment I'm using a Roccat Kone [+] which is actually broken-ish and the distributor won't take it back. I'm gripping it like this
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/0xLuH
> 
> which isn't the most comfortable but its what I'm used to.


If you like the ergonomic feel of the kone you could enjoy the DA or g400, I recommend those first because they have very good performance for the larger mice category.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> ^ You liked DA shape, why not go Zowie EC1 instead of AM? It's got great build quality (if you get one with good scroll wheel, those apparently tend to skip) and it's same shape as DA


I see, there is EC1 evo also, do you still recomend the EC1 over the latest one?


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> I see, there is EC1 evo also, do you still recomend the EC1 over the latest one?


Evo definitely, the older one has prediction and other problems.

...should you be interested, the white one has plastic coating which works better if you don't sweat much, black is rubbery which only sticks when your hands are sweaty


----------



## RednBlack

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
400, 800, 1200 with 6/11

3. What's your maximum budget?
50 dollars

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't matter, although back button is nice

5. What games do you play?
Starcraft brood war, any interesting games that come out

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would rather not have it

7. Other relevant information:
I need about 400 dpi for brood war in fullscreen mode (640 x 480). 800-1200 is enough for me at 1080p. I have read threads saying 6/11 is the only windows sensitivity that should be used. Other threads say any is fine as long as it is not above 6/11. Others say any even number up to 6 is fine. Can someone clear this up for me? If I don't have to use 6/11, it opens up a lot of possible high dpi mice like the spawn that I could use by compensating with less than 6/11 sensitivity.


----------



## Shaun1991

1. What's your grip style?
it rests in my palm
2. What's your sensitivity?
800-1600 mostly i can go higher but never try it to often
3. What's your maximum budget?
trying to get a mouse and new pad for around 100 USD
4. Do you want additional buttons?
maybe two on the side
5. What games do you play?
Battlefield and FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
never knew much about it but heard its bad for fps

My Microsoft sidewinder sensor failed on me so a new mouse is needed fast.


----------



## test user

^ I'd suggest a G400 if coming from Sidewinder


----------



## Shaun1991

Any other suggestions, any news on the corsair m65? I want the best mouse for my gaming needs.


----------



## Atavax

I prefer mice that are intended specifically for right hands. I think i typically use a hybrid of a finger tip and a palm grip, where my thumb, index, and middle fingers make contact solely through the tips, but then on the right side, the length of my ring finger along with part of my palm contacts the mouse. I often change my sensitivity based on the game i'm currently playing a lot of, typically playing around the 9-13 inches per 360 mark, but could easily see myself lowering it a bit more. Have used as low as 24 inches per 360 in the past 800-1200 dpi is cool. Want 2 buttons on the side, along with scroll wheel and 2 main buttons. I hate prediction.

With steam starting to support games in Linux, i've started toying with Linux but most companies don't support linux, which is a problem considering most games don't allow you to lower the sensitivity in game enough if your mouse has the default highest dpi setting.

I appreciate light mice. I currently am using a deathadder that i won, and hate the slick sides. Currently using a steelseries Qck+ pad, like the size, but its too thin, i can feel bumps through it too easily. I prefer soft pads because from my experience hard ones tend to noticeably warp. Also soft pads are easier to pack for LANs.

I was thinking of the Zowie EC2 because i read it can change sensitivities and polling rate physically on the mouse with no drivers. A little concerned because i heard they are pretty picky on the type of mouspad you use. For mouspads i was thinking something from either Artisan or CM storm, but was thinking i'd probably want to decide on a mouse first.

Also durability is a concern, i game a lot and use relatively low sensitivities so wear and tear on both the mouse and mousepad takes place at a fairly rapid pace.


----------



## test user

^ Well, EC2 is a great choice for that. Just make sure to use a single-color pad and you get good tracking

Build quality is great, apart from the scroll wheel which might skip if you don't usually put a bit of pressure on it while scrolling.


----------



## Atavax

i thought i read something about like the lift off distance being so short that on like glass pads, there is jitter and then on some of the Artisan pads the top surface is similar to glass?

also, are there other mice that have similar ergonomics to the ec2. maybe a logitech or razer brand that i'd more likely have experience with?


----------



## willll162904

deathadder has almost the same ergo as the ec but its alitle bigger.


----------



## willll162904

zowie mico is great for fingertip


----------



## cometkora

1. What's your grip style?
claw grip/finger tip grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
~1000 for shooters and 1600-1800 for rpgs
3. What's your maximum budget?
$100
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, but not an absolute necessity
5. What games do you play?
Tera, S4 League, Blacklight Retribution, Warframe, League of Legends
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction.
7. Other relevant information:
Need a small mouse. Would prefer that the mouse would be able to work with the SteelSeries Qck Guildwars 2 edition mousepad.


----------



## Zodhiates

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
800 dpi to 1800 dpi enough

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Optional

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2, Assasins creed, Counter Striker, Quake

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Must hav long life and no fading of colour.


----------



## AlDyer

Im just here to cast my vote for the Razer Imperator 4G. That is my favourite mouse for FPS games. And I play palm grip. Most people wont like this post, but the mouse just works really good for me.


----------



## test user

^ I don't think it's a good idea to recommend Imperator as a general choice for palm grippers, considering the sensor problems. Especially when G400 exists, and it's pretty closely the same shape AFAIK.


----------



## luiseche

1. What's your grip style?
Somehow a mix claw grip/finger tip grip

3. What's your maximum budget?
60$
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, if possible
5. What games do you play?
LOL and maybe in the future CS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
don't know tbh
7. Other relevant information:
I used to play CS at a medium level years ago, I had a MX300 with func surface. I'll also get a new pad (possibly a QCK). I have small-medium size hand, right-handed.
Now I want to try something diferent, at first I thought about a DA 2013 but for my grip style it wont fit, right?
So I'm in doubt between Steelseries Kana, Sensei Raw, Roccat Kova+ and any other you may suggest. I have already disscard Zowie's AM or FK because of the price here in Spain.
Thank you!


----------



## BanditZA

1. What's your grip style?

Depending on the game, CS, CoD, BF3 are all claw when sniping, mix between claw and fingertip in everthing else

2. What's your sensitivity?

1600DPI in most, drop it to 800 DPI in CS quite often, increase it to 3200 at others. The best tracking at 800-1600DPI would be preferable though

3. What's your maximum budget?

Less is better (I'm not a believer of more expensive = better product), but anything up to $100

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Mixed feelings (see below)

5. What games do you play?

FPSes ,MMOs and League of Legends, I take the 2 former quite seriously. I snipe a lot when playing FPS games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I've been using the "gaming mouse" that came with my MSI laptop, no idea if it uses it, but whichever is best for accuracy, I'll get used to either

7. Other relevant information:

Seeing as I've never used them, modifiable weights don't matter to me. I also don't mind buying 2 mice (and up the budget to $130/140), one for FPSs and one for MMOs, but I have my reservations about how comfortable it is to hit the buttons on the side without moving the mouse across the screen. I've also read that an optical sensor might be better for my sensitivity range (which is why I'm looking at the Storm Spawn). Large brands would definitely be easier for me to find, since I'm not from the US/UK (Razer, Steelseries, CM, Logitech, Gigabyte).

Results I'm interested in from Googling: Cooler Master Storm Spawn, G9x (I've read a lot of complaints about the sensor and/or lift off issues), Razer Deathadder (I know it doesnt have a lot to do with my grip but since I first saw it years ago I thought it looked pretty cool







, issues with build quality have me concerned though, also the 2013 version can only be found for 99USD on special order in SA). The Steelseries QCK is the mousepad I'm interested in, but please recommend another if it offers better tracking for the mouse.

When it comes to turning a lot I often lift off my mouse, a bit of shift is fine, so long as the mouse movement isn't extreme (with my current mouse it's hardly noticable). Build quality should also be important as I'll be carrying the mouse around a lot.

Oh and first post


----------



## Pyrodude

First time poster need some help on finding the right mouse

1. What's your grip style?
Finger/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
I prefer higher sensitivity most of the time. 6000-8000dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
About $100 a little over isn't a big deal.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
As long as it has forward and back the rest are really extra, don't mind either way.

5. What games do you play?
MMO's mostly but i have a keyboard for macro buttons so the mouse doesn't need to have extra buttons. But i do play FPS games every so often.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Doesn't matter.

7. Other relevant information:
Currently my favorite mouse that I have used has been the G9x it works really well for my grip style but i'm looking to get a new one since its starting to die out on me now. I have recently bought the Logitech G500s but i'm disappointed with grip style it has, can't really get a good finger grip on it. I suppose I should have done more research before hand on that. But any mouse suggestion would be appreciated.


----------



## jayfkay

claw and FIngertip: Cm Storm Spawn, Logitech g100s, zowie ec2 evo
Palm: g400, Zowie ec1 Evo, Roccat Savu

both: deathadder

anything to be added? this thread serves no purpose really.


----------



## Forde3654Eire

1. What's your grip style?
Any

2. What's your sensitivity?
Any

3. What's your maximum budget?
As low as possible, just want a good inexpensive mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Just primary, secondary and scroll wheel

5. What games do you play?
Casual gamer. FPS games mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
Just looking for a good no frills mouse


----------



## andrewx12

1. What's your grip style?
palm, I guess
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium high
3. What's your maximum budget?
$50-60
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 min
5. What games do you play?
none that really use mouse, I do a lot of web browsing, virtual machines and occasionally some graphic design.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
never had it before, if possible to turn off ill try it out
7. Other relevant information:
I believe I am beginning to get carpal tunnel in my right hand. I am going to place the blame on my mouse because I mainly get the discomfort when I use it. I would get it checked if I had decent insurance.

I currently use the logitech m305. Wireless is a must as well as the micro receiver I could live with a hybrid wired/wireless mouse. How is the arc mouse from microsoft?


----------



## electriceye

1. What's your grip style?
I'm kind of newer to PC gaming, so I kind of mix it up a little bit. I used to claw my older mouse... but it was on the smaller side, so I guess I don't know. Anything really. Something with at least two different options would be nice.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Recently tried out a friends high DPI laser mouse and I loved the feel of it. I have a WQHD monitor, so probably on the higher side.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around $100. Preferably under $70, but it doesn't matter a ton.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least two on the side for forward/back.

5. What games do you play?
Mouse will be used mostly for FPS games. I'm wouldn't consider myself super competitive, but I wouldn't say I'm casual about it either.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably not. I'm not picky about stuff like that though.

7. Other relevant information:
Basically looking for a laser mouse that's comfortable that looks cool. I was looking into the Sensai as I liked the aesthetic and lighting(something similar there would be a plus!), but I saw that there were some issues with it. I prefer something on the heavier side and I have larger hands as well.

Currently using an Asus GX850 I have on loan. I really like the higher DPI(wouldn't mind even higher as an option), but I'm not in love with the build quality. It's too light for my tastes and feels cheap(coating is peeling). That's probably the main thing I'm looking for. Something that feels solid.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## 0CALEFACTION0

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Usually pretty high. Adjustable would be nice for times when high sensitivity would be annoying.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Aiming for less than $70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. Just a comfortable vanilla mouse.

5. What games do you play?
BF3, Minecraft, Far Cry 3, Metro 2033, Portal, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'm not too keen on what it actually does? Makes my movement more linear?

7. Other relevant information:
Doesn't need any fancy LED lights or buttons. Would enjoy a wireless mouse.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.


----------



## Passion

Hello Mouse Gurus! I would like to know your opinion on what mouse would be ideal. I have not used a computer mouse in a very long time, so your insight would be greatly appreciated!

*1. What's your grip style?*

I alternate my grips between Palm and Claw. I use Claw a lot more during gaming though, and wouldn't be opposed to having a mouse geared towards Claw.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I have no idea. I can answer this qualitatively though.

Sensitive, but not _too_ sensitive.









On a scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being the most sensitive), I would place it around 6. I am able to adjust the higher sensitivities, but that would change depending on the game.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

No budget. I want the right mouse, regardless of price. However, I do not believe that a high price tag warrants quality. I just want the evaluation for the proper mouse to be free of the price constraint.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Based on the games that I play, I would like you to assess the importance of this question. As I said before, I have not used a computer mouse in a long time, so I cannot foresee a need for additional buttons. But, some would definitely be necessary. I just do not know how many.

*5. What games do you play?*

Based on the current market, I will play Battlefield 4 and Starcraft 2.

Really into FPS and RTS...









*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I do not want prediction. If the mouse has prediction, it would have to have the option to turn it off at the very least. I think this is a bad feature to have for gaming.

*7. Other relevant information:*

a) heard about a feature in which one can easily change the sensitive on the fly in game. this seems like a cool feature for Battlefield... when switching between scoping for sniper and running about with a pistol for example.
b) Appearance: I do not want a mouse to look "gamery." You know have some mice have BF3 edition, for example? I do not like that.
c) Weight: I cannot think of a number. i can easily adjust, but I don't want a feather for a mouse. It needs to have some weight (between 1-10, with 10 being the heaviest... I'd be okay with 5-7 range)
d) I am right handed.
e) I am not sure about wired versus wireless. I am great with cable management, so I am not bothered by either situation.

Thanks for your time guys!


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Passion*
> 
> Hello Mouse Gurus! ... Thanks for your time guys!


Haven't tried it myself, but from the sounds of it, you might like the CM Spawn.


----------



## protomog

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
High (I think my actual mouse now has pretty low, so I put it pretty high in-game. I can't find any manufacturing details about my mouse, though, so I have no clue what its DPI is Apparently the DPI is 1000. I play at 1920x1080).

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$60, at most

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Maybe one or two on the side. Not looking for something like the Naga, but more than three would be nice (Maybe five or six, maybe?)

*5. What games do you play?*
DooM 1 & 2, Quake 1 & 2, RPGs (old and new), Action games (Batman Arkham City or Sleeping Dogs).
Don't really touch MMOs or RTS at all.
I'm also mostly a single player guy, but I'm starting to notice that my mouse isn't working nicely as I'd like.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
The description I read of it in the other mouse thread seems like something I wouldn't like. Or, rather, I'd like the option to turn off.

*7. Other relevant information*:

I have really small hands. Fully spread out, the width from my pinky to thumb is about 5". Mostly, my fingers are really small (more so than my actual palm).
I've been looking at the DeathAdder or Sensei RAW, but I'm worried they might be too big for my hand and grip style. I've also heard questionable things about the Sensei's build quality.
I also wouldn't mind a bit more weight to mouse. Nothing extreme, but my current mouse is as light as a feather.
Something with good build quality; I don't want to break the thing on accident by clicking to hard or dropping it on the floor.
I have a soft, cloth mousepad.
This is the first good mouse I'll be getting as I'm coming off of a cheap Dell mouse I've had for the better part of four years or so. I'm looking for more precision in the games I do play.


----------



## CzechItOut

1. What's your grip style?
palm/claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium, medium high in a shooter
3. What's your maximum budget?
$90
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Very much so yes.
5. What games do you play?
Assassin's creed, dishonored, counterstrike, Battlefield, terraria, skyrim, Tf2
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know what that is.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I really think the lighting on mice is cool and I would like one with some cool lights. Also: not necessary but something I would like is the rubberized coating.

reply to my thread here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1396393/which-mouse-should-i-buy


----------



## HAGGARD

-


----------



## negativory

1. What's your grip style?

I liked the MX series. Used it for years.

2. What's your sensitivity?

I used the MX series with no drivers and 400 dpi for years. I never overclocked my usb so i assume I was at 125hz as well.

3. What's your maximum budget?

I don't really care.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At least a side button on the thumb would be nice. I use that to walk.

5. What games do you play?

Counter-Strike 1.6/Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I'd like a mouse with similar prediction to the MX series, probably the 518 since i used that the longest.

7. Other relevant information:

I used the MX series for years of 1.6, and had great success as a top NA player at one point. I stopped playing VGs for many years and came back with a DA 3.5G. Something about this mouse doesn't suite me. I'd like to experiment with some other mice.

Was looking at the G400 and G400s but was told those have no prediction anymore. Still might try it out. If it does have no prediction I'd also like to try a mouse that might have similar prediction as my old MX series would have had.


----------



## HAGGARD

@ negativory: I'd recommend you go with the G400. It would be the natural transition from using a MX. You could look for models batched PID LZ13333 or prior, those have prediction. There's also a firmware update if you for some reason wanted to get rid of it afterwards. The mouse is also recommended by a variety of FPS players (esp. CS). You maybe want to get a mouse bungee to go with that though, as some people at least for the first few months after its release complained about the wire quality.


----------



## 122512

1. What's your grip style?
*Fingertip. Rare, I know.*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*Don't know exactly. But if this helps: My screen resolution is 1366x768, my mouse is a 1000 dpi mouse, and my mouse sensitivity in Control Panel is maxed out.*
3. What's your maximum budget?
*I'd like to spend as little as possible, but 100$ for a good quality mouse. 150$ if the mouse is REALLY worth it.*
4. Do you want additional buttons?
*I expect the standard left and right click. I must have a scroll wheel as well (no touch scroll!!), that obviously clicks. Those are my needs. Other than that, it'd be nice to have a well-placed forward and back page for web browsers, and other than that, it'd be nice to have plenty of buttons as long as they look aesthetically pleasing. A design like the Naga is aesthetically pleasing to me.*
5. What games do you play?
*Mainly FPS and racing, with a good amount of strategy and MMORPG. Seldom amount of RTS.*
6. Do you mind about prediction?
*I don't know what this is, sorry.*
7. Other relevant information:
*- It must be wireless, as this will be for a laptop. Also, it must be USB wireless, no wifi or bluetooth please.
- Nano tranciever strongly preferred. I cant have a giant dongle sticking out of my laptop.
- LEDs would be nice... I'm not usually a flashy guy, but I believe mouses can look really nice with em.
- MUST be VERY durable! This will be my main and only mouse, it will be used for my laptop that will be lugged around. I wont go out of my way to treat the mouse badly, but it'll probably be dropped sometimes and it will have to be up to the task and last long.
- Rechargeable would be cool!
- Long battery life to go along with that would be cool too!
- I guess a battery indicator would be nice too.

If this is relevant, I have medium size hands.

Thanks!







*


----------



## jayfkay

you dont need a mouse bungy fopr that. the cable simply needs to be "loose" at all times. it must not drag against resistance.
so just take enough of the cable to move the mosue freely and secure that with your keyboard or something.


----------



## libo720

1. What's your grip style?
Prefer palm grip, but i can adjust to anything.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Does not matter. As long as it is not too low like 400DPI.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Does not have one.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
The forward and backward button on where your right thumb is like on the Deathadder.

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, and some FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, i want a mouse with a flawless sensor.

7. Other relevant information:
I prefer heavy mouses, with aluminum buttons. However, it is not a deal breaker if the mouse is all plastic or not heavy, i mainly care about the sensor.


----------



## ParcelPost

Hi guys, been stalking the forums for a while (helped a lot with my last PC build, and reviews are awesome







).
Now I need a new mouse, I'm using a crappy Logitech m185 (because it was free!) and am wanting a gaming upgrade.

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
preferably around 1800-2000, but adjustable to 800 would be nice

3. What's your maximum budget?
Unimportant

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Preferably but can live without

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, COD, WoW

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. I prefer a smaller mouse (I have average sized hands but I just like a smaller mouse/not touching the palm). Hand length from middle finger to wrist is 20cm/7.87in. Using a steelseries QcK mouse mat so optical sensor/cloth compatibility is a must. Also I live in New Zealand, so CM Storm and zowie are out, unless some one can supply a website that will ship quickly/cheaply.

Probably going to end up with the Roccat Pyra or Razer Abyssus, even though I had my eye set on the CM Storm Spawn (shipping costs and times are ridiculous!)

Cheers!


----------



## Mattb2e

*1. What's your grip style?* Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?
* Low
*3. What's your maximum budget?
* $50-$60
*4. Do you want additional buttons?
* Minimum of 5
*5. What games do you play?*
FPS, MMORPG, light RTS
*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*I would prefer no prediction
*7. Other relevant information:*
I would prefer a rubberized finish, not a fan of gloss finishes.

I have been looking at the Roccat Savu, im not sure if this is the best option in this price range. I will be purchasing exclusively from Newegg. Thanks!


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mattb2e*
> 
> I have been looking at the Roccat Savu, im not sure if this is the best option in this price range. I will be purchasing exclusively from Newegg. Thanks!


The only reason not to buy the Savu is if you don't like the shape. I for example don't like the thumb mold and the high side-button placement. Otherwise it's an excellent mouse. So, if you can't stand the Savu's shape, consider waiting for the Kone Pure Optical, or get a G400 if you have big hands.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> The only reason not to buy the Savu is if you don't like the shape. I for example don't like the thumb mold and the high side-button placement. Otherwise it's an excellent mouse. So, if you can't stand the Savu's shape, consider waiting for the Kone Pure Optical, or get a G400 if you have big hands.


The hardest part is that I am basing my perception of how the mouse will fit my hand based on user reviews and photos. From what I can tell it will fit me better than the G400, which is one of the reasons I was looking more at the Savu. I do not have big hands, more like a medium, and I do prefer to have a thumb rest as I use a palm grip.

Right now im using a Logitech M510, so Im thinking that the Savu should be as comfortable, or more so.

Thank you for your input.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mattb2e*
> 
> The hardest part is that I am basing my perception of how the mouse will fit my hand based on user reviews and photos. From what I can tell it will fit me better than the G400, which is one of the reasons I was looking more at the Savu. I do not have big hands, more like a medium, and I do prefer to have a thumb rest as I use a palm grip.
> 
> Right now im using a Logitech M510, so Im thinking that the Savu should be as comfortable, or more so.
> 
> Thank you for your input.


Well, the G400 has a thumb mold that's deeper than the one on the M510. The thumb mold of the Savu is even deeper. If that doesn't scare you, then go ahead! You'll probably like the Savu.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> Well, the G400 has a thumb mold that's deeper than the one on the M510. The thumb mold of the Savu is even deeper. If that doesn't scare you, then go ahead! You'll probably like the Savu.


Oh ok, I was unaware, thanks again!


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forde3654Eire*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Any
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Any
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> As low as possible, just want a good inexpensive mouse.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Just primary, secondary and scroll wheel
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Casual gamer. FPS games mostly
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Just looking for a good no frills mouse


Razer Abyssus is fantastic i love it so much.


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *protomog*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> High (I think my actual mouse now has pretty low, so I put it pretty high in-game. I can't find any manufacturing details about my mouse, though, so I have no clue what its DPI is Apparently the DPI is 1000. I play at 1920x1080).
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $60, at most
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Maybe one or two on the side. Not looking for something like the Naga, but more than three would be nice (Maybe five or six, maybe?)
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> DooM 1 & 2, Quake 1 & 2, RPGs (old and new), Action games (Batman Arkham City or Sleeping Dogs).
> Don't really touch MMOs or RTS at all.
> I'm also mostly a single player guy, but I'm starting to notice that my mouse isn't working nicely as I'd like.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> The description I read of it in the other mouse thread seems like something I wouldn't like. Or, rather, I'd like the option to turn off.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information*:
> 
> I have really small hands. Fully spread out, the width from my pinky to thumb is about 5". Mostly, my fingers are really small (more so than my actual palm).
> I've been looking at the DeathAdder or Sensei RAW, but I'm worried they might be too big for my hand and grip style. I've also heard questionable things about the Sensei's build quality.
> I also wouldn't mind a bit more weight to mouse. Nothing extreme, but my current mouse is as light as a feather.
> Something with good build quality; I don't want to break the thing on accident by clicking to hard or dropping it on the floor.
> I have a soft, cloth mousepad.
> This is the first good mouse I'll be getting as I'm coming off of a cheap Dell mouse I've had for the better part of four years or so. I'm looking for more precision in the games I do play.


It depends. If you have small hands do u prefer small mice? Ive heard people with small hands fit the sensei fine but i have medium to small hands and i prefer small mice and its WAAY to big. i love my razer abyssus


----------



## fohstick

1. What's your grip style? palm

2. What's your sensitivity? +800dpi is fine

3. What's your maximum budget? <$60

4. Do you want additional buttons? +2 side buttons at least

5. What games do you play? fps, rts

6. Do you mind about prediction? preferably not

7. Other relevant information: heavy weight and GOOD build quality. my G5 is dead, and my G500 has been experiencing the double clicking issue, so preferably something not from logitech or razer


----------



## briddell

To anyone who wants an MMO mouse with a high sensitivity, does not care about adjusting the weight, and has a wide palm grip, with a budget of around $60 to $70, I highly recommend the Logitech G600. *Fantastic* mouse, the best one I have ever owned. It has a solid weight to it, but is not too much. The coating on it, while not rubberized, is very sweat and grime resistant, and hasn't given me any issues with corrosion, etc., over 7 months of use. The lighting behind the 12 thumb buttons is nice, and adjustable. Combined with the ring-finger button, all of which are programmable (15 programmable keys, in total), and some of the best software quality out there (Logitech Gaming Software for mouse programming and DPI adjustment), the Logitech G600 is just a ridiculous mouse.

I'm a high-DPI user and gamer, around 5200 daily driver, and up to 6500 in some games. If you need the buttons for macros and hotkeys, or even just shortcuts for things in Windows/Linux, I highly advise you at least check out the G600.


----------



## cravinmild

my lord, can you even see 6500dpi lol I know a few peeps who say they like high dpi like that but I honestly cant control that curser. I cant even click icons like the "X" to close a page. 400dpi in D3 and perhaps 800-1600 in COD ..... guess im getting old


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fohstick*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? +800dpi is fine
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? <$60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? +2 side buttons at least
> 
> 5. What games do you play? fps, rts
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? preferably not
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: heavy weight and GOOD build quality. my G5 is dead, and my G500 has been experiencing the double clicking issue, so preferably something not from logitech or razer


corsair raptor? rat 5?


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> *Q. What's your grip style?*
> A. Fingertip.
> 
> *Q. What's your sensitivity?*
> A. No idea.
> 
> *Q. What's your maximum budget?*
> A. $60-70.
> 
> *Q. Do you want additional buttons?*
> A. It wouldn't hurt to have any (no preference).
> 
> *Q. What games do you play?*
> A. Third-Person Shooters (Twin-Stick Shooters), First-Person Shooters, Action-Adventure, Platform, Puzzle, RPG (trying out Risk of Rain; Great game).
> 
> *Q. Do you mind about prediction?*
> A. Yes. I'd prefer having as little prediction as possible or no prediction at all.
> 
> *Q. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> I'd prefer no acceleration (positive or negative: this basically screams optical) and the mouse be wired. Adjustable DPI would be nice (not sure what mice don't have that). The mouse should have fairly good build quality.


razer abyssus? zowie mico? check out corsair mice maybe SS sensei, ss kana, zowie fk is good


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicChicken*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Around $40 is ideal. Over budget is okay.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Absolutely loved the Razer Salmosa in almost every way but the lack of side buttons is beginning to bug me. Perfect mouse for me otherwise.
> Something with light weight, extra buttons, and is small in size would be great.


The razer abyssus matches all of your conditions except no side buttons... i love my abyssus so much, tracks perfect, no acceleration or prediction, great for fps and 40 bucks.


----------



## Xicu

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
6/11 400DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
70$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, and some FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction

7. Other relevant information:
First of all im from Argentina, so i dont have many options here, but I'm thinking to buy one in ebay. I have a older g400, the one with prediction Q_Q, and im looking for something similar. I'm using a SS 9HD and have a old SS NP+ .

Zowie EC2 eVo works fine on the SS 9HD? because its not unlicolor. I like this mouse especially on white. I want a mouse with great performance and good looking.


----------



## -Nick

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/Fingertip (The rear of my hand does not touch the back of the mouse, but the right side of my hand does)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not sure

3. What's your maximum budget?
No budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

5. What games do you play?
ArmA 2/3, CS - Mainly FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
What's prediction?

7. Other relevant information:
Had an MX518 for 6 years
Want to go wireless (possibly modular)
Looking at the Razer Ouroboros, Mamba & the RAT 9


----------



## ramenchef

1. What's your grip style?
90% palm (thumb, index, and middle fingers from the 1st to the 3rd knuckle don't touch the mouse, the rest of my hand does)
It's sort of a hybrid between palm and claw. There's less than a centimeter gap where the middle portion of my fingers is raised. I am clicking with everything past the 3rd knuckle, not just the very tips of my fingers.
2. What's your sensitivity?
1200-1800
3. What's your maximum budget?
unlimited
4. Do you want additional buttons?
just the 5 standard buttons will do. I don't like the flywheel scrollwheels. I also dislike the horizontal tilt feature unless it's very well done. I use middle click a lot, and on an older logitech mouse, i kept accidentally left scrolling instead of middle clicking.
5. What games do you play?
mostly league of legends, some FPSes, Civ5, DOTA2
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I do not want prediction
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Low LOD is preferable. Weight should be low to medium, nothing too heavy. Driverless is a plus. My hands are fairly small. 7.75 inches around the palm, about 7 inches from wrist to the tip of my middle finger.


----------



## geekily

1. What's your grip style?
*I'd like palm but as my mouse is too small for my hand I currently use claw and fingertip.*

2. What's your sensitivity?
*800 - 1600 dpi*

3. What's your maximum budget?
Up to £120 (around $190 dollars)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes, around 4 would be good.*

5. What games do you play?
*World of Warcraft (PvP), Starcraft 2....Theme Hospital....*

6. Do you mind about prediction?
*No clue*

7. Other relevant information:
I have pretty *big hands* (despite being a girl, just call me Lana). This is my main issue.
For anyone who wants measurements, tip of middle finger to heel of palm = approx 19.5cm (7.75 inches), cross palm from outside of thumb to other side = approx 11cm (4.3 inches) and hand span is about 21.5cm (8.3 inches).

Currently using a Razer Naga, would rather not buy another Razer product and not really wanting anything with that same sensor unless it's the comfiest mouse known to (wo)man.
Tried a Logitech MX518, it slopes off too soon and is not wide enough.
Also tried a G700 but whilst the width and height are a little better, it's still too small.

Pinky rest would (I think) be nice (but never had it so could be wrong).

Thanks guys!


----------



## loukouk

1. What's your grip style?
Use the index and the middle finger for the buttons and have my pinky and ring finger hanging off the side. I rearely use my palm because I have rather long fingers.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I was wanting a mouse with an adjustable sensitivity but with a high maximum ( higher than 4000 )

3. What's your maximum budget?
My maximum budget would probably be around 75 bucks, but the lower the better









4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. I don't care for a tilt wheel but I really want at least two thumb buttons on the side.
Definitely not looking at the ridiculous 12 thumb button mouses.

5. What games do you play?
I play a lot of League of Legends lately but I also play a variety of other games (both FPS and RTS). I don't usually play MMOs.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't really care, it has never seemed to make much of a difference.

7. Other relevant information:
The mouse definitely has to be wired.
I would rather stay away from Razor because of Synapse 2.0. I don't really like Logitech either because I've had bad experience with them.
Definitely want a way to adjust sensitivity whether it's on-mouse buttons or saved profiles.
Don't really like braided cords but I could live if my mouse had one
I'd rather not waste money on cool lightshows


----------



## esoteric9

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800

3. What's your maximum budget?
around 100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes, at least 2 sidebuttons

5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6/GO, World of Warcraft, BF3

6. Do you mind about prediction?
not really

7. Other relevant information:
Not really fond of Razer after reading lots of bad reviews about their mice breaking rly fast.


----------



## Robobot

1. What's your grip style?
Mixture of Claw/fingertip (I have small hands)

2. What's your sensitivity?
6/11 windows, around 3.5 in CSGO (raw)

3. What's your maximum budget?
N/A

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No, in fact three is enough.

5. What games do you play?
CSGO, UnrealTournament, Quake, Serious Sam 3, Killing Floor, Left 4 Dead 2, etc. (pretty much all FPS')

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
LOD - low, I think (I use an MX300, so whatever that is)
weight - I prefer slightly heavier than light
Basically - I want a new Logitech MX300
-dpi 400, raw movement, no accel, etc.


----------



## fasti

I put this to search for a mouse that I might have missed. Those weirdly shaped ones, where official dimensions aren't really true.

Top two requirements are:
- Below 10cm length, 6cm width. There is no minimum barrier for dimensions, as small as possible = better. And this does *not* mean the *official* dimensions, I mean about actual dimensions where you grip your mouse. Finger tips would be on top of the switches while palming.
- Gaming grade sensor. Need to support lifting correctly.

1. What's your grip style?
- Palm, can't do any other type. Think about shortest fingers, now think even shorter.

2. What's your sensitivity?
- 400cpi or software controlled sensitivity(like razer). Windows 6/11 ofc.

3. What's your maximum budget?
- 200e

4. Do you want additional buttons?
- Not required, but I will use them.

5. What games do you play?
- Everything.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
- If I can draw a circle fast w/o noticing anything wrong, should be ok.

7. Other relevant information:
- Working adjustable LoD setting, if Laser.
- Very light mouse, 50g-80g. Maybe some mouse has something inside that can be taken out. Like on Abyssus you can take out the middle plastic part.
- Very minor acceleration if any. Xai was ok.
- 500hz+ polling.

I have Razer DeathAdder/Abyssus, SS Xai/Kinzu v2 Pro/Kana. Currently using Kinzu v2 Pro. All of them too big. Only small enough mice what I have seen from official dimensions are either laser(high cpi, can't change sensitivity) or wireless(performance problems). Not to mention laser tracking issues on cheap mices.

Currently I have ordered Roccat Pyra Wired, but I'm unsure about it's dimensions. It pretty much looks like a cut version of Kinzu, which feels like the dimensions aren't that good for smallness as my hand still has to climb up that back "empty" part. Also noticed Razer Orochi and I was hopeful, until I saw Philips sensor.... I lift my mouse frequently. Three screens and ~low first person/mouselook sensitivity.


----------



## romdex

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip / Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
LOW and sometimes MID

3. What's your maximum budget?
No limit

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Don't care about it

5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6/GO, Dota 2 and Single Player games ( everything )

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't know

7. Other relevant information:
My mousepad - SteelSeries QcK+ NaVi Edition

I had SteelSeries Xai before. I think about Razer DeathAdder 2013, Zowie AM / FK / EC1 / EC2, SteelSeries products

Thanks!


----------



## shadar12x

1. What's your grip style?
claw/palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
$1000

4. Do you want additional buttons?
one addiftion buttion can bind to teamspeak

5. What games do you play?
FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction?
prefer to not have but not a deal breaker

7. Other relevant information:
Razer Invicta (hard mouse pad) average size hands right handed

Had a razer deathadder untill it broke. looking for a differnt mouse because of deathadder doesnt seem to work to well for claw grip. prefer for there to be no mouse acceleration which a lot of high end mice seem to have if it can be turned of or is minumal that is fine. tend to play at a fairly high screen res so dpi cant be to low. looking for something fairly durable want it to last for 4-5 years but price is not an issue cause got to spend $1000 tech stipend somehow. any recomendations would be apretiated


----------



## Kyal

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, as far as I am aware.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Lowish, 35cm/360.
Won't ever use higher then 1800dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons.

5. What games do you play?
FPS mostly, but do play most games that come out.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer not to have it.

7. Other relevant information:
Would like no acceleration obviously. Previously used a Deathadder, and before that a MX518. I also have fairly small hands.

I've been looking at the Zowie mice, but the only one available in Australia as far as I am aware is the FK, and not sure on the shape.
Thanks


----------



## shockk

Hello, I am upgrading from a 5€ mouse, to around 60€ gaming mouse. I mainly play League of Legends and sometimes a little fps games.
The template:

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/palmish, I guess depends on the mouse.
2. What's your sensitivity?
Mid
3. What's your maximum budget?
70-80€
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, preferably two on the side.
5. What games do you play?
Moba/rts
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't know what it is, but if it affects my game negatively then yes I do.
7. Other relevant information:
My main request for the mouse is durability. I've had a 5€ mouse for 7 years and it works perfectly still. I would like my mouse to last atleast 3 years without breaking. I've been looking into DH2013(but it's supposed to have bad quality),Sensei raw,zowie EC1 and logitech g400s.

Thanks for your help in advance:thumb:


----------



## mohit9206

Is the Logitech G300 a good budget gaming mouse ?


----------



## Z Overlord

quick question guys, is the native DPI of the MX518 800 and 1600 or just 1600?


----------



## willll162904

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robobot*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mixture of Claw/fingertip (I have small hands)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 6/11 windows, around 3.5 in CSGO (raw)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> N/A
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> No, in fact three is enough.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CSGO, UnrealTournament, Quake, Serious Sam 3, Killing Floor, Left 4 Dead 2, etc. (pretty much all FPS')
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> LOD - low, I think (I use an MX300, so whatever that is)
> weight - I prefer slightly heavier than light
> Basically - I want a new Logitech MX300
> -dpi 400, raw movement, no accel, etc.


For you the razer abyssus sounds perfect. i have one and i love it so much


----------



## DavyCrockett

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, almost always.

2. What's your sensitivity?
low, 700/900 DPI.

3. What's your maximum budget?
£120.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, it is imperative that the mouse have at least 7 bottons.

5. What games do you play?
main ones are; WoW, Dota2, Killing Floor and L4D2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would like no acceleration, it is the only major one i can think of. If you have any links on the traits a mouse can have, that would be appreciated.

7. Other relevant information:
A light mouse would be horrid for me, as well as all other small mice. My hands are big, so anythign that can fit well with this in mind is a plus, as well as a thredded cord.


----------



## WhipeeDip

1. What's your grip style?
Very slight claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600 DPI, Windows 6/11

3. What's your maximum budget?
Not set yet, open to all suggestions

4. Do you want additional buttons?
The two side buttons at least.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, pretty much everything

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Do NOT want prediction

7. Other relevant information:
Want "flawless" sensor like 3090.
Also prefer lighter mice.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhipeeDip*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Very slight claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 DPI, Windows 6/11
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Not set yet, open to all suggestions
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> The two side buttons at least.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, pretty much everything
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Do NOT want prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Want "flawless" sensor like 3090.
> Also prefer lighter mice.



MadCatz R.A.T. 3
Roccat Kone Pure Optical (Not yet available)
Roccat Savu
Zowie AM
Zowie EC eVo
Zowie FK


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, almost always.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low, 700/900 DPI.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> £120.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, it is imperative that the mouse have at least 7 bottons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> main ones are; WoW, Dota2, Killing Floor and L4D2.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Would like no acceleration, it is the only major one i can think of. If you have any links on the traits a mouse can have, that would be appreciated.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> A light mouse would be horrid for me, as well as all other small mice. My hands are big, so anythign that can fit well with this in mind is a plus, as well as a thredded cord.


You want a heavy mouse? How weird!
The MadCatz M.M.O. 7 has plenty of well placed buttons and even with all the extra weights out it still weighs about 150 grams without cord (which is braided). The sensor is great, unless you lift your mouse frequently. The shape is equally (un)suited to all grip styles.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Is the Logitech G300 a good budget gaming mouse ?


That depends on the price at which you can get it. When you can get mice like the MadCatz R.A.T. 3, the Roccat Savu, or the Logitech G400 for a mere 10 additional bucks, then that's 10 bucks well invested.

Personally, I'd rather not use a G300.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhipeeDip*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Very slight claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 DPI, Windows 6/11
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Not set yet, open to all suggestions
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> The two side buttons at least.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, pretty much everything
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Do NOT want prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Want "flawless" sensor like 3090.
> Also prefer lighter mice.


TT Saphira maybe. It's as big as a Sensei, weighs less than it and the DeathAdder 3,5G. Slightly more than a Savu and Zowie AM FK. Shape looks good for slight claw with no fear here like being too narrow.
Risk might be weight distribution, am not sure how the PCB is placed cause of weight cartridge. For instance the Sharkoon fireglider has two levels of PCB at the front, making it nose heavy without weights.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shockk*
> 
> Hello, I am upgrading from a 5€ mouse, to around 60€ gaming mouse. I mainly play League of Legends and sometimes a little fps games.
> The template:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/palmish, I guess depends on the mouse.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Mid
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 70-80€
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, preferably two on the side.
> 5. What games do you play?
> Moba/rts
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't know what it is, but if it affects my game negatively then yes I do.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My main request for the mouse is durability. I've had a 5€ mouse for 7 years and it works perfectly still. I would like my mouse to last atleast 3 years without breaking. I've been looking into DH2013(but it's supposed to have bad quality),Sensei raw,zowie EC1 and logitech g400s.
> 
> Thanks for your help in advance:thumb:


If you want to fingertip, hands off the G400. Try the Zowie EC eVo if the shape appeals to you. Personally, I find the MadCatz R.A.T. 3 ("higher" versions have inferior sensors) has a shape more suitable for a user of palm and fingertip grip.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> TT Saphira maybe. It's as big as a Sensei, weighs less than it and the DeathAdder 3,5G. Slightly more than a Savu and Zowie AM FK. Shape looks good for slight claw with no fear here like being too narrow.
> Risk might be weight distribution, am not sure how the PCB is placed cause of weight cartridge. For instance the Sharkoon fireglider has two levels of PCB at the front, making it nose heavy without weights.


As far as I know, the Saphira has prediction.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, as far as I am aware.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Lowish, 35cm/360.
> Won't ever use higher then 1800dpi.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS mostly, but do play most games that come out.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer not to have it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Would like no acceleration obviously. Previously used a Deathadder, and before that a MX518. I also have fairly small hands.
> 
> I've been looking at the Zowie mice, but the only one available in Australia as far as I am aware is the FK, and not sure on the shape.
> Thanks


Roccat Savu


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> As far as I know, the Saphira has prediction.


Oh, how much does it have? If it's just slight, an allround gamer could be okay with it.

Found something:

Doesn't look too bad but yes it's clearly there.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadar12x*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> claw/palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $1000
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> one addiftion buttion can bind to teamspeak
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS games
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> prefer to not have but not a deal breaker
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Razer Invicta (hard mouse pad) average size hands right handed
> 
> Had a razer deathadder untill it broke. looking for a differnt mouse because of deathadder doesnt seem to work to well for claw grip. prefer for there to be no mouse acceleration which a lot of high end mice seem to have if it can be turned of or is minumal that is fine. tend to play at a fairly high screen res so dpi cant be to low. looking for something fairly durable want it to last for 4-5 years but price is not an issue cause got to spend $1000 tech stipend somehow. any recomendations would be apretiated


Screen resolution is irrelevant when playing FPS, as the mickies are not translated into pixels of cursor movement, but into degrees of turn.

Try the Coolermaster Spawn or the Zowie FK.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *romdex*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip / Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> LOW and sometimes MID
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No limit
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Don't care about it
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS 1.6/GO, Dota 2 and Single Player games ( everything )
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't know
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My mousepad - SteelSeries QcK+ NaVi Edition
> 
> I had SteelSeries Xai before. I think about Razer DeathAdder 2013, Zowie AM / FK / EC1 / EC2, SteelSeries products
> 
> Thanks!


For users of fingertip and palm grip, the MadCatz R.A.T. 3 should be a good choice, but you can't do much wrong with the Zowie mice either, unless you need soft clicking buttons.


----------



## DavyCrockett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> You want a heavy mouse? How weird!
> The MadCatz M.M.O. 7 has plenty of well placed buttons and even with all the extra weights out it still weighs about 150 grams without cord (which is braided). The sensor is great, unless you lift your mouse frequently. The shape is equally (un)suited to all grip styles.


yeah, heavy mice have always worked better for me, don't know why, maybe it's becuase the mouse feels better with some weight behind it. What you say about sensor, how if you lift your mouse a lot; as a tendence i do lift my mouse up quite often, if that's a big factor in the M.M.O. 7, would you say it'sa deal breaker?

would you recommend any others? I really should have put this in the "Other relevant information" section, sorry.


----------



## mohit9206

Bought this one for less than 10 bucks.Its not a gaming mice but i cant afford to spend 30-50 dollars for a mice.
http://www.iball.co.in/Category/Blue-Eye-Opti-Mouse/370


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> yeah, heavy mice have always worked better for me, don't know why, maybe it's becuase the mouse feels better with some weight behind it. What you say about sensor, how if you lift your mouse a lot; as a tendence i do lift my mouse up quite often, if that's a big factor in the M.M.O. 7, would you say it'sa deal breaker?
> 
> would you recommend any others? I really should have put this in the "Other relevant information" section, sorry.


It really depends on how often you lift the mouse. When playing Quake, I lift my mice all the time. That's the main reason why I can't tolerate laser sensors. They all have lifting problems. Also the M.M.O. 7's shape isn't too great for lifting. That combined with the high mass can be a problem, especially if you hold your mouse with three fingers on top, pressing the right button with the ring finger.

Another option would be the Tt eSports Theron Infrared. I'm interested in that mouse myself, but I don't know whether it has angle snapping turned on or off. And I'm also worried it might be too heavy for me. Mice with an adjustable weight system usually are.


----------



## spiffers

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600

3. What's your maximum budget?
under 100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Don't need them

5. What games do you play?
Starcraft 2, Dota 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
I'm currently using a Xai. I love pretty much everything about the mouse except the clicking. It's too hard to click and it hurts my hand.
I need something with a much easier/softer/lighter click. Basically been looking for a mouse that has a similar shape and weight but an easier click.
Was considering the g9x, deathadder, abyssus etc. Appreciate any help.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spiffers*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> under 100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Don't need them
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Starcraft 2, Dota 2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'm currently using a Xai. I love pretty much everything about the mouse except the clicking. It's too hard to click and it hurts my hand.
> I need something with a much easier/softer/lighter click. Basically been looking for a mouse that has a similar shape and weight but an easier click.
> Was considering the g9x, deathadder, abyssus etc. Appreciate any help.






Guide


----------



## MikalMirkas

'ello, I registered just to post here. My current mouse is a Logitech M215. It's painful to use because it's so small. My old mouse, my other Logitech (model unknown, some cheap wireless mouse) has broken down (RIP ;_
Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip / Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Unknown, assuming Med/High - I play with Sens 2-5 in Source games.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? No more than $95 CAD, preferably below $85 though.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Minimum LMB/RMB/MMB and one side button.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Basically everything from FPSs to MMOs to RTSs to whatever. Probably most of them are point and click games such as FPSs or the occasional MOBA.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Only if it's noticeable, so I guess I can say that I care.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Would like at least 2400 DPI on the mouse, and accessible buttons are preferred. I'm ambidextrous but primarily right-handed. I don't care too much about wires, so wireless capability is negligible. Preferably something that lasts me 15k+ hours of use, and is moderately quiet.


I'm also looking for a mousepad that works with the mouse. Currently playing with some bedsheets on a table. Friends IRL are recommending a Sensei RAW but I came here for a second opinion.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jayfkay

go into a store and try some mice out -_-
or order 2-3 mice online and give the ones you dont like back within 2 weeks and get your money back.


----------



## snoopy2k

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
under £60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary

5. What games do you play?
TF2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No

7. Other relevant information:
G9 recently broke, loved it. Comfort is important for me. Open to suggestions


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoopy2k*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> under £60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not necessary
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> TF2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> G9 recently broke, loved it. Comfort is important for me. Open to suggestions


CM Storm Spawn


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> CM Storm Spawn


If Coolermaster keeps everything that would be good for the Spawn of the upcoming Spawn (version two), would the wait be worth enduring?


----------



## Squall es

1. What's your grip style?

Finger tip

2. What's your sensitivity?

Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?

Not an issue

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I don't mind

5. What games do you play?

RTS, Poker

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Rather without prediction

7. Other relevant information:

Aesthetics are important. Roccat Kone fe looks nice to me, but I don't know if it fits my grip. I also would like to know a good mouse pad for your recommended mice.


----------



## CerwinVega

1. What's your grip style?

Palm / Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

400-800 Dpi / Cpi, 6/11 Windows

3. What's your maximum budget?

Does not matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Only Lika a " Back And Forward " buttons on the sides

5. What games do you play?

Cs 1.6, CS:GO, BF 3, CoD,

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No Prediction

7. Other relevant information:

No Posetive or negative acceleration, Low Lift of distance, I want lika a pure FPS gaming mouse, with no porblems








Thanks in advance!


----------



## L4dd

The Savu is available again for $29.29, and the DeathAdder 2013 is $55, but users reported that the DeathAdder 2013 has "smoothing":

*Savu*
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MPVRQC?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links

*DeathAdder 2013*
http://www.amazon.com/Razer-DeathAdder-Essential-Ergonomic-RZ01-00840100-R3U1/dp/B00AAS888S/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373652201&sr=1-1


----------



## Mancubus

Just don't get a G400... flawed mouse.


----------



## CerwinVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The Savu is available again for $29.29, and the DeathAdder 2013 is $55, but users reported that the DeathAdder 2013 has "smoothing":
> 
> *Savu*
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MPVRQC?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links
> 
> *DeathAdder 2013*
> http://www.amazon.com/Razer-DeathAdder-Essential-Ergonomic-RZ01-00840100-R3U1/dp/B00AAS888S/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373652201&sr=1-1


Was that meant to me? If so, What does Smoothing means?









And what about Zowie Ec eVo 1/2 I have heard good things about them?


----------



## CerwinVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mancubus*
> 
> Just don't get a G400... flawed mouse.


Oh, well i have heard good things about that mouse to? :O


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerwinVega*
> 
> Was that meant to me? If so, What does Smoothing means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what about Zowie Ec eVo 1/2 I have heard good things about them?


That was meant for you; both of those are claw/palm mice unless I am mistaken.

"Smoothing" might be unwanted, so maybe someone who experienced it will post here; a lot of people did not experience "smoothing" or report that it was bad...


----------



## Mancubus

Well I know mate... it has got good reviews but I am completely mystified as to how it got them. Its quite clear when you hold that thing it doesn't feel right (although subjective). But the main issue is that the build quality is quite poor with regards to buttons (many of the G400 I bought and then either smashed to pieces or returned came with a loose rattling LMB) also input lag with this particular mouse has been reported and many people say that the cursor quality isn't that good compared to DA/WMO/IME 3.0 (and I tend to agree strongly) or any of the A3090 mice like Savu etc

I mean take it from me... an ex High Master League SC II player that I can tell when a mouse feels right or not and in general Logitech mice have poor cursor quality compared to Razer and Microsoft mice. Their G400 is the only mouse without prediction or accel. Basically what I am saying that compared to their counterparts most Logitech mice are inferior in many ways. The only thing I can give Logitech is the durability and warranty on their products (and their relatively low price compared to some of the more premium gaming brands).


----------



## jayfkay

#1 rule when on OC.net:
just dont listen to childcubus. confused person.


----------



## CerwinVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> That was meant for you; both of those are claw/palm mice unless I am mistaken.
> 
> "Smoothing" might be unwanted, so maybe someone who experienced it will post here; a lot of people did not experience "smoothing" or report that it was bad...


Okey, well i like the DA 2013! So i will look into it! Thanks man!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mancubus*
> 
> Well I know mate... it has got good reviews but I am completely mystified as to how it got them. Its quite clear when you hold that thing it doesn't feel right (although subjective). But the main issue is that the build quality is quite poor with regards to buttons (many of the G400 I bought and then either smashed to pieces or returned came with a loose rattling LMB) also input lag with this particular mouse has been reported and many people say that the cursor quality isn't that good compared to DA/WMO/IME 3.0 (and I tend to agree strongly) or any of the A3090 mice like Savu etc
> 
> I mean take it from me... an ex High Master League SC II player that I can tell when a mouse feels right or not and in general Logitech mice have poor cursor quality compared to Razer and Microsoft mice. Their G400 is the only mouse without prediction or accel. Basically what I am saying that compared to their counterparts most Logitech mice are inferior in many ways. The only thing I can give Logitech is the durability and warranty on their products (and their relatively low price compared to some of the more premium gaming brands).


Oh okey, So any mice with A3090 sensor is OK?
As L4dd recomended the DA 2013, and i must say it looks good i must say, but what mouse do you recomend if you saw what i was looking for?


----------



## Mancubus

Of course jkay don't listen to me... you have achieved a lot more right? I for one bet you would never reach the top 1% skill in your game. Back in my day I was actually among the best Master League players in the world so even though I may not know much about hardware technically etc... I definitely can tell you how it feels right and wrong and why.

The G400 e.g while it may be a good FPS mouse for some its an absolutely terrible RTS mouse. There will literally not be a single pro player who uses that mouse while many use the basic optical, TTeSports black and many others.

And also jkay why don't you point out ONE pro player who uses Logitech mice even in FPS games? Please list... because if you can't it shows that Logitech mice aren't very good.

@Vega

I personally would get 3.5G over 4G - its £37 and its quite responsive, ergonomic and fairly lightweight the 4G is almost 2x price for basically no benefit except rubber grips. G100s is great in terms of shape, lightness but the cursor precision isn't that great. CM Storm Recon, Zowie EC1/2, MiCo, AM/FK are all good choices.


----------



## CerwinVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mancubus*
> 
> Of course jkay don't listen to me... you have achieved a lot more right? I for one bet you would never reach the top 1% skill in your game. Back in my day I was actually among the best Master League players in the world so even though I may not know much about hardware technically etc... I definitely can tell you how it feels right and wrong and why.
> 
> The G400 e.g while it may be a good FPS mouse for some its an absolutely terrible RTS mouse. There will literally not be a single pro player who uses that mouse while many use the basic optical, TTeSports black and many others.
> 
> And also jkay why don't you point out ONE pro player who uses Logitech mice even in FPS games? Please list... because if you can't it shows that Logitech mice aren't very good.
> 
> @Vega
> 
> I personally would get 3.5G over 4G - its £37 and its quite responsive, ergonomic and fairly lightweight the 4G is almost 2x price for basically no benefit except rubber grips. G100s is great in terms of shape, lightness but the cursor precision isn't that great. CM Storm Recon, Zowie EC1/2, MiCo, AM/FK are all good choices.


Okey, thank you mate!!


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerwinVega*
> 
> And what about Zowie Ec eVo 1/2 I have heard good things about them?


I am sorry for neglecting this part; I was busy...

Zowie mice wih the Avago 3090 sensor have reportedly good tracking like the Savu, but the Savu and Zowie mice reportedly might be picky regarding their tracking surfaces meaning that you might need a particular mousepad.

The Zowie mice interpolate from their highest setting, so some users reported that they experienced input delay/lag from those mice but others have not noticed it or did not think that it was bad, and they have custom lenses for reduced L.O.D., so their maximum perfect control speed might be around 3 m/s.

The Savu has no interpolation, so it might overall have the best combo of response and tracking.

The DeathAdder 2013 has great advertised specifications, such as 200 I.P.S. across all of its settings, 100-6400 C.P.I. settings via increments of 100 C.P.I., and its revised shell that has rubber sides and a textured finish.


----------



## CerwinVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I am sorry for neglecting this part; I was busy...
> 
> Zowie mice wih the Avago 3090 sensor have reportedly good tracking like the Savu, but the Savu and Zowie mice reportedly might be picky regarding their tracking surfaces meaning that you might need a particular mousepad.
> 
> The Zowie mice interpolate from their highest setting, so some users reported that they experienced input delay/lag from those mice but others have not noticed it or did not think that it was bad, and they have custom lenses for reduced L.O.D., so their maximum perfect control speed might be around 3 m/s.
> 
> The Savu has no interpolation, so it might overall have the best combo of response and tracking.
> 
> The DeathAdder 2013 has great advertised specifications, such as 200 I.P.S. across all of its settings, 100-6400 C.P.I. settings via increments of 100 C.P.I., and its revised shell that has rubber sides and a textured finish.


But Zowie EC 1 eVo with a Zowie mousepad must work good?









What you mean by : Maximum perfect control speed? 3 m/s?
That i can move the mouse 3 m/s as a maximum?
I don't want any delay / lag









Im sorry for being a noob, but i don't know anything about this, i jsut want a good mouse for FPS games


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerwinVega*
> 
> But Zowie EC 1 eVo with a Zowie mousepad must work good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you mean by : Maximum perfect control speed? 3 m/s?
> That i can move the mouse 3 m/s as a maximum?
> I don't want any delay / lag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry for being a noob, but i don't know anything about this, i jsut want a good mouse for FPS games


The Savu and DeathAdder 2013 might have a higher distance that they could travel versus the Zowie mice because of Zowie's custom lens, by Kynsis, before malfunctioning.

A mousepad might be better than another surface because of color and uniformity, so a PureTrak Talent might be a good cloth surface, reports were that it provided satisfactory tracking and texture.

I recently saw a report of pixel walking on a C.M. Recon and Zowie FK, I.I.R.C. Has anyone else noticed either?


----------



## undertaken316

Logitech has entered the stage dynamically with the G series relaunch. IMO the



which I got to test thoroughly is one of the best wireless gaming mouse, after the Ouroboros of course. Dunno if anyone has still doubt about the whole wireless+gaming thing...


----------



## stinky

1. What's your grip style? *Claw.*

2. What's your sensitivity? *3500DPI.*

3. What's your maximum budget? *I am willing to spend as much as needed to get something that fills my criteria, and is of good value. Something around $50 would be ideal, though.*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *I currently own the Razer Abyssus, and have been fine without buttons, however if the mouse has buttons, I don't mind.*

5. What games do you play? *CS:GO, SC2, LoL.*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *I would prefer to not have acceleration, angle-snapping, or anything like that.*

7. Other relevant information: *Rubberized finish, and really good sensor.*


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> #1 rule when on OC.net:
> just dont listen to childcubus. confused person.


I agree, but now that he is on my blocking list it is much better. It only hurts my eyes to sometimes still read his confused spew of words in quotes. I wish everyone would just ignore him...


----------



## rockcoeur

Hey guys. I've had a Microsoft Sidewinder X8 for about 2-3 years now and I feel like it's gonna die on me soon. Time to get a new mouse, I guess.

*1. Grip style:* In-between palm grip and claw grip.

*2. Sensitivity:* I'm at 1500 dpi right now and I love it

*3. Maximum budget:* As much as I need to, but I'd prefer it if it didnt go over 110$.

*4. Additional buttons:* I want thumb buttons. At least two. And I really liked being able to switch sensitivity on the fly with the Sidewinder, really usefull when doing photoshop or stuff like that. But yeah I like buttons, so lots of buttons. Please?









*5. Games I play:* Mostly shooters.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Don't mind.

*7. Other relevant information:* I really like how the sidewinder was wireless but you could plug in the wire whenever you felt like it. I don't need it, but its a nice feature.

I've been considering the Logitech G700 but I'd still like you guys suggestions before spending that hard earned money!


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rockcoeur*
> 
> ...


CM Storm Recon, SteelSeries Sensei RAW.

My two main suggestions for all-purpose gaming mice.


----------



## rockcoeur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> CM Storm Recon, SteelSeries Sensei RAW.
> 
> My two main suggestions for all-purpose gaming mice.


Thanks! Will look into it. You profile pic freaks me out btw...


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rockcoeur*
> 
> Hey guys. I've had a Microsoft Sidewinder X8 for about 2-3 years now and I feel like it's gonna die on me soon. Time to get a new mouse, I guess.
> 
> *1. Grip style:* In-between palm grip and claw grip.
> 
> *2. Sensitivity:* I'm at 1500 dpi right now and I love it
> 
> *3. Maximum budget:* As much as I need to, but I'd prefer it if it didnt go over 110$.
> 
> *4. Additional buttons:* I want thumb buttons. At least two. And I really liked being able to switch sensitivity on the fly with the Sidewinder, really usefull when doing photoshop or stuff like that. But yeah I like buttons, so lots of buttons. Please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *5. Games I play:* Mostly shooters.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Don't mind.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:* I really like how the sidewinder was wireless but you could plug in the wire whenever you felt like it. I don't need it, but its a nice feature.
> 
> I've been considering the Logitech G700 but I'd still like you guys suggestions before spending that hard earned money!


I would recommend the G700. Fantastic mouse, good battery life, and you can play it while charging it. I do however recommend that if you do plan on playing while charging to simply buy a usb to mini-usb cable due to the fact that the cable that comes with the g700 is slightly too big and drags on the mat.


----------



## rockcoeur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I would recommend the G700. Fantastic mouse, good battery life, and you can play it while charging it. I do however recommend that if you do plan on playing while charging to simply buy a usb to mini-usb cable due to the fact that the cable that comes with the g700 is slightly too big and drags on the mat.


Thanks man! And another thank you for your recommendation.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> If you dont mind the huano's switches wich are harder to press.
> Then the zowie am should be good for you its a little wmo shape.
> Only thing is its not 400 dpi it steps are 450/1150/2300.
> But have a look at the logitech g400 aswell.


Bringing this back from page 95 or so since I never did replace my Microsoft WMO. How durable are the Logitech G400's buttons? I damaged my Deathadder's right mouse button by playing Sleeping Dogs (counter attacks) and my WMO's left mouse now double clicks every now and then. I was looking at the Zowie FK but that wasn't available on Amazon a few months back.


----------



## Ratface

1. Kinda mix of a fingertip claw I guess, I hold the mouse at a 45 degree angle

2. Low sensitivity, usually in game lower it to a 1

3. preferably around $50 max

4. I want at least 2 side buttons preferably one on each side rather than 2 on one side

5. mostly strategy, RPGs, a few FPSs like TF2 and CSS and STALKER games

6. Never noticed if I had it or not, mice I've used: Intellimouse 1.1, Logitech MX310, Logitech Anywhere mouse

7. Would really prefer an ambidextrous mouse with at least 5 buttons and what I said before, a button on each side rather than 2 on one.

I was first looking at a Steelseries Kana, then to the sensei RAW, then was advised against them because of the acceleration(my last two mice had some acceleration but I just tried playing a bit with the acceleration turned off with the anywhere mouse and it was actually a little better)

Then looked to Zowie AM or FK, love the shape but they're a bit overpriced it seems and also saw that while it has buttons on both sides, you can only use one side at once which is rather incredibly stupid. Is there no way to enable all the buttons?

Just saw the that Genius Maurus mouse, and this http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Recon-Optical-Multicolor/dp/B009JZ04BC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_4
Cooler Master Storm Recon. Both the right price good shape(don't like the wings on the genius or the blockiness of either) but haven't looked into them much, are the sensors good?

Forgot my main thing, I'm sick of having to buy a new mouse every damn year so I really want a mouse that isn't going to break in some way right after a year. From what I understand Logitech mice have persistent left click issues.


----------



## SharksFan

*1. Grip Style:* Claw/Fingertip hybrid. My index finger rests in similar fashion to the fingertip posture, but the rest of my fingers lay in a more traditional claw pattern. Only the base of my palm rests on the mouse and I hold it with the mouse pointed at roughly an eleven o'clock position.

*2. Sensitivity:* I find myself most comfortable with 800 DPI, though I've also used the 1200 DPI setting from time to time.

*3. Budget:* Some of you may find it laughable, but I'd like this to land within the vicinity of $25-$30 maximum. The job market is tough in this region and I cannot afford to throw around large sums. As it stands spending that much makes me cringe a tad.

*4. Additional Button(s):* Not at all a necessity. Left click, right click and clickable scroll-wheel are all I require. Anything further is neither a pro or con.

*5. Games:* First Person Shooters, Third Person Shooters, Adventure, Real-Time and Turn-Based Strategy, Action and Turn-Based RPG.

*6. Prediction:* Preferred not to have it, but if the mouse has the option to turn it off the difference is negligible.

*7. Other Information:* _**Important ** I would request that the mouse recommended be available on Amazon if possible, as I have a small sum of gift card balance remaining from a prior purchase ** Important **_ A cable in the neighborhood of six feet or so would be appreciated, but with the inexpensive purchasing price of USB extensions, I will refrain from being a stickler on that point. If it is of any help I am right handed, so a non-ambidextrous right handed model would be acceptable. Above most aspects I would like for it to be somewhat sturdy. My last mouse, an OCZ Equalizer, ran me fifteen dollars at the time and lasted me a solid five years. My hands are rather large in nature and I am somewhat fond of heavier mice.

I've toyed around with the thought of an E-Blue Mazer Type-R, as I've heard good things of them from word of mouth. The perfect mouse I do not seek, nor even one worthy of mention to others. At the end of the day I just wish to know that I made the right decision in my price range. However I am quite sure you gentlemen are more knowledgeable in regards to what that mouse might be than I. 'Tis in your hands that I leave my decision, if you would be so kind as to help me. Thank you for your time and patience.


----------



## Forde3654Eire

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Don't know... I hear 800 is good for gaming?

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
None, I just want a basic gaming mouse for a very reasonable price

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
No, not necessary

*5. What games do you play?*
FPS, RPG, MMO

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No... its not a good feature for gaming, right?

*7. Other relevant information:*
A long while ago I started a thread on a budget gaming mouse. I was going to jump for the E-Blue Cobra, but I don't like flashy lights on mice... and I absolutely hate that they won't turn off even with PC switched off. Many on the thread have strongly recommended the Logitech G400. Looked that up, however a retail price of $50 on Ebay put me off... gave up looking for a mouse for a while...

Decided to start looking again. I came across the Logitech MX518, which happens to be the G400's older brother. Half the price at $25. Good buy? What about the Razer Abyssus Mirror Edition? They retail for around $18 on Ebay. Any other ideas?... MX310? Or is that too old?

I just want a plain good basic gaming mouse, nothing fancy... $50 for a mouse is absolutely outrageous IMO!

*EDIT: I suppose my mouse description pretty much matches that of SharksFan above... count me in on his post.*


----------



## Jalal

@ SharksFan

Maybe this: Anker 4000 Currently 26$ (edit: unknown sensor)

It's big. Problem might be room for the ring finger at the side, dunno.

Or TT Saphira, no risk with ring finger i think. It's shorter but you probably can't use the Anker's side's front anyway.It used a good sensor. Problems i see is wether its' 800dpi are native or not, and it has prediction.

@ Forde 3654Eire

Yes maybe MX 518 if you're fine with laying your ring finger on top as this retailer on ebay is describing (also depends on the fingers width i'm guessing). But It has prediction.

Or maybe the Anker.


----------



## Forde3654Eire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> @ Forde 3654Eire
> 
> Yes maybe MX 518 if you're fine with laying your ring finger on top as this retailer on ebay is describing (also depends on the fingers width i'm guessing). But It has prediction.
> 
> Or maybe the Anker.


Alright sounds good! I really don't know if prediction is a good thing or not... but I suppose the MX518 being a popular gaming mouse speaks for itself. Due to the MX 518 / MX 310 being a bit dated, will either one have problems with Windows 7, or will they be fine?


----------



## Jalal

The Anker is a recent mouse, don't know about driver problems. And i've never read about the MX 518 not functioning well on Windows 7. I can't talk for or against prediction.


----------



## Forde3654Eire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> The Anker is a recent mouse, don't know about driver problems. And i've never read about the MX 518 not functioning well on Windows 7. I can't talk for or against prediction.


That's good enough for me







Thanks


----------



## Phoran

1. What's your grip style?
Somewhere between claw and fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Not really sure, around 1500 i think

3. What's your maximum budget?
$90 if the mouse lasts long enough

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Would be nice but not a necessity

5. What games do you play?
Mostly mmos, a couple of shooter and rts, nothing pro level or anything

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not to sure about that, only used a cheap microsoft wireless, and my dieing deathadder

7. Other relevant informations: I'm looking for a new mouse because me deathadder left click started having issues after only a yea and a half of casual use, so im looking for something that will last and has a good reputation.
I am currently looking at the corsair m65/95 and the g600, but im open for other suggestions.
Thanks for your input


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phoran*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Somewhere between claw and fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Not really sure, around 1500 i think
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $90 if the mouse lasts long enough
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Would be nice but not a necessity
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly mmos, a couple of shooter and rts, nothing pro level or anything
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not to sure about that, only used a cheap microsoft wireless, and my dieing deathadder
> 
> 7. Other relevant informations: I'm looking for a new mouse because me deathadder left click started having issues after only a yea and a half of casual use, so im looking for something that will last and has a good reputation.
> I am currently looking at the corsair m65/95 and the g600, but im open for other suggestions.
> Thanks for your input


M95 or G600 is the mouse for you my friend. Perfect for claw grip.


----------



## SharksFan

Funny you should mention the Anker, Mister Jalal, as I had been looking at it along with the E-Blue. The thunder pattern is a bit flashy for my taste, but practicality trumps aesthetics in the longer span of things. One question I have is if it would be wiser to take the step up to the Anker 5000 in its place. The only downside I caught particular notice of is the slightly smaller stature. Would it be a better choice to spare the extra four dollars to purchase that in place of the 4000, or is the 4000 just as suitable?

The Saphira appears to be a rather solid mouse, but the prediction factor mixed with the higher price point makes it slightly less desirable. Looking at the Anker 4000 I'm fairly certain that the ring finger would find a comfortable place to rest given the chance.

Thank you for your help thus far, Sir. After doing a bit of research on the both of them I'm fairly certain that an Anker of some sort is foreseeable in my future. Given your input on which is the better of the two I'm confident I'll end up quite pleased.


----------



## Jalal

The Anker 5000 side grips seem like that one of the Sharkoon fireglider, they collect a lot of unidentifiable dirt and are not easy to clean. I dislike that. Uses appereantly the ADNS-9500 Sensor, has slight positive acceleration, but maybe it's negligible (with your playstyle). The one of the Anker 4000 (ADNS-3090) is seen as superior by most people.

What I worry about with the 5000 is its weight distribution. If it's the same as with the Sharkoon Fireglider, then there are two levels of PCB at the front, making the mouse nose heavy without those additional weights in it. Or you put them in and you've got a heavy mouse. Well, maybe they didn't, it's a whole other mold. Should search for pics of it dissassembled or of the Sharkoon Drakonia or same mold. (Who started with this mold anyway)

EDIT: Anker 4000 interpolates 4000 dpi from it's native maximum of 2000. Don't know which sensor, but high chance of prediction.


----------



## shuprimo

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

1200-1500

3. What's your maximum budget?

whatever

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Would be nice but not a necessity

5. What games do you play?

FPS mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I dont know what prediction means in a mouse









7. Other relevant informations: I´m using an a4tech XL 740 BK (it´s the only one mice I´ve ever had at the moment) and I grip it like fingertip despite to be palm mouse. I have medium-small hands. I had considered Zowie FK

SIZES

a4tech XL 740BK----125,12 x 72,11 x 42,31 mm

Zowie FK---124 x 64 x 36 mm


----------



## Roybattius

Are people differentiating between claw grip and finger tip grip. My own personal differentiation is that claw grip uses two fingers on top. The index finger on left mouse, the middle finger on right mouse, and the ring finger hanging off the side. Finger tip grip is index finger on left mouse, middle finger on scroll wheel, ring finger on right mouse.

So my grip is my above defintion of finger tip grip. So the G400 and DeathAdder seem to be more for palm grip. I've heard good thing about the Abyssus, but no side mouse buttons (I could maybe live with that). I'm hearing good things about CM Storm Spawn and Zowie mice, but don't know much about them. It seems that the best ergonomic style seems to be those mice without side buttons, but ideally I would like a couple since it's nice to have for some complex games with lots of key bindings like Arma 3 or I guess any MMO.


----------



## Krill

Just made this account to ask for your your help. Thank you for keeping this thread stickied.

1. What's your grip style? - Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity? - I don't know precisely, always used an old microsoft comfort 1000 (optical)

3. What's your maximum budget? Don't really want ot spend much more than £40 but willing to go higher for good quality/well suited mouse. Maybe £60?

4. Do you want additional buttons? Not really.

5. What games do you play? LoL

6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer not to have it, not a deal breaker though.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Prefer corded, none-lightweight mouse (adjustable weights are a huge plus to me). Rubberised is good, ambidextrous is good but only as a bonus. I have quite large hands, so small mice are not good for me.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phoran*
> 
> I am currently looking at the corsair m65/95 and the g600, but im open for other suggestions.
> Thanks for your input


Corsair mice tend to be way too heavy, so they're not great for FPS.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krill*
> 
> Just made this account to ask for your your help. Thank you for keeping this thread stickied.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? - Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - I don't know precisely, always used an old microsoft comfort 1000 (optical)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Don't really want ot spend much more than £40 but willing to go higher for good quality/well suited mouse. Maybe £60?
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Not really.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? LoL
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer not to have it, not a deal breaker though.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Prefer corded, none-lightweight mouse (adjustable weights are a huge plus to me). Rubberised is good, ambidextrous is good but only as a bonus. I have quite large hands, so small mice are not good for me.


Looks like you want a Logitech G500.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Looks like you want a Logitech G500.












seriously though, you pretty much described a zowie AM/FK.


----------



## L4dd

*Krill*, could you fingertip grip a C.M. Recon?


----------



## Krill

I suppose I could give both of those a look, thank you for your help


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krill*
> 
> I suppose I could give both of those a look, thank you for your help


You should be aware that the Zowie AM has a relatively low max tracking speed, compared to other mice using its sensor. If you tend to move your mouse faster 3 m/s, it's not gonna suit you well. That said, going faster than 3 m/s isn't all that common or easy.


----------



## hooded24

any recommendations?

Needing help

1. What's your grip style? Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity? prefer ~5600

3. What's your maximum budget? not an issue

4. Do you want additional buttons? yes but not for mmo (standard 2-3 extra would be fine)

5. What games do you play? fps

6. Do you mind about prediction? doesnt really matter

7. Other relevant information:
size of mouse is really important.
want a HUGE mouse if possible.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seriously though, other than the wireless part, you pretty much described a zowie AM/FK.


Whats so funny? Its wired, not-lightweight, has interchangeable weights, its ruberized on the side and as a person with large hands, I can honestly say its just about perfect.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Whats so funny? Its wired, not-lightweight, has interchangeable weights, its ruberized on the side and as a person with large hands, I can honestly say its just about perfect.


The guy wanted a fingertip grip mouse. The Logitech design really don't work well for fingertip grips. The ridge on the left side for the thumb especially makes it difficult to fingertip grip.

I also somehow managed to misread that post to think that he wanted an ambidextrous mouse...


----------



## ZBoneCapone

Hey all,

Had a Razer Deathadder 2013 edition for about five months now and have had absolutely no problem with it. I love the feel and sensitivity. However, I am building my first pc this fall and it will run a red and black color scheme so I'm wanting to get rid of my DA with green LED.

That being said, I am looking into the Mionix Naos 8200. I love the custom LEDs and it will match my PC perfectly. However, I am worried about mouse acceleration with the Mionix. AFAIK, the DA doesn't have mouse accel. Will I be able to notice it at all?

I usually have a DPI around 1800. I also use a claw grip.

Good switch to the Mionix or stick with the DA?

Thanks!


----------



## FurryPaws

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertyp

2. What's your sensitivity?

9/11

3. What's your maximum budget?

As little as possible, as much as needed.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Wouldn't hurt, but I don't see what for.

5. What games do you play?

Only SC2 1v1.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Not sure.

7. Other relevant information:

Wireless, preferably silver or maybe white and if at all possible made out of metal.
The Sony Vaio one seems cool so far, but I don't know how well bluetooth works for mice.

Also, it doesn't seem to be chargeable...


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The guy wanted a fingertip grip mouse. The Logitech design really don't work well for fingertip grips. The ridge on the left side for the thumb especially makes it difficult to fingertip grip.
> 
> I also somehow managed to misread that post to think that he wanted an ambidextrous mouse...


He has a claw grip, an adapted version on the fingertip grip. My dad, who is a claw grip guy, uses the G5 which is for all intensive purposes the same mouse and loves it. Going based on experience, not what I've read.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is the Roccat Savu recommended for a person with clawgrip/fingertip grip style?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> He has a claw grip, an adapted version on the fingertip grip. My dad, who is a claw grip guy, uses the G5 which is for all intensive purposes the same mouse and loves it. Going based on experience, not what I've read.


This is what he wrote:
Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style? - Fingertip


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> This is what he wrote:


Hmm, it said claw yesterday and earlier today.... I swear...
My bad.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Hmm, it said claw yesterday and earlier today.... I swear...
> My bad.


Well, I somehow managed to read it as him saying that he wanted an ambidextrous mouse. The Zowie AM is still a good choice for fingertip, though.

You'd have to be a masochist to do a fingertip grip on one of the Logitech ergonomic mice. They'e alright for palm grip, if you hand is fairly small, though.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, I somehow managed to read it as him saying that he wanted an ambidextrous mouse. The Zowie AM is still a good choice for fingertip, though.
> 
> You'd have to be a masochist to do a fingertip grip on one of the Logitech ergonomic mice. They'e alright for palm grip, if you hand is fairly small, though.


The fingertip parts yes, the small hands no. I have large hands and I can use just about any Logitech mouse comfortably.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> The fingertip parts yes, the small hands no. I have large hands and I can use just about any Logitech mouse comfortably.


My fingers are too long for the buttons on my G400, so I'm forced to press them with the joints on my fingers. If the buttons extended to the end of the mouse, it would be a lot better for larger hands.


----------



## Nakauri

Hey,
Thanks for all the advice, folks - your forums has been a mine field of hard to find information. I tried to get by just by reading and using my best judgement, but it turns out my judgement is AWFUL. So here's my story:

I've been using a Razer Lachesis the past few years and it's been a fantastic experience feel wise. The right trigger became loose and the screw was giving me a bit of trouble, so instead of doing some quick repairs I decided I could just replace it all together with a new mouse and look at the Lachesis down the road when I needed a spare. Did a bit of looking around and went with a kone pure, primarily for budget reasons.
Not happy with it, though, so hopefully someone here can point me in other directions? I have a week to test drive the Pure, so I have some time to do some more digging and getting more opinions.

*1. What's your grip style?*
Mostly fingertip, though because of the size of the Lachesis it's partially palm. The Kone Pure is throwing me off because it seems designed like a logitech for a palm grip, but is so small it has to be held in claw. Not a fan of pressing the scrollwheel with my finger joints!
My hands are really small, but holding the Kone makes me wonder if it was made for ants. Probably because I used the lachesis for so long. What're the odds of getting used to a different mouse shape?

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
High. Kept my Lachesis at 5000-5600 90% of the time. I also play on a cloth mat and barely ever move my hand from the pivot point. Which, on my lachesis, was right at the butt of the mouse for stability, but I can't do that with the Pure. It's causing my hand to cramp up a bit from how much extra pressure I need to exert to hold the mouse still.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Technically I suppose I could go up to $90 to include the Kone's larger brother and some of the Mionix's, but I'd really rather stay around the Pure's budget. I picked it up for $70. I could go elsewhere, but primarily I'd prefer to stay within the stock of Memory Express: http://www.memoryexpress.com/

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
The two thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse has been fine for me, but it was primarily the positioning on the lachesis that made them nice. Their low profile and the position made it possible to rest my thumb on both simutaneously, so if I rocked my thumb forward the finger tip activated the front button and rocking it backwards activated the back with the joint. The Kone Pure has two buttons in the same general spot, but I'm finding my self hitting the space BETWEEN the buttons more often than not.

*5. What games do you play?*
Primarily Warcraft, but I usually check out all the games as they come out, which includes FPS' (though I don't play them as heavily).

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Not really, I can generally get used to settings like these fairly quickly.

... I'm embarrassed to admit how many times my hand slipped and missed the click because of the feel of this mouse while trying to click the bold button.


----------



## Nakauri

^ I have to make a decision on this in the next day or so, any comments?
I've warmed up to the pure a bit, but I'd still like to explore my options.

There's also quite a bit of jitter with it on lift off, is this something common to the new roccats or would swapping from a QcK to a hard mat help it? If so, any suggestions? I do prefer cloth mats, but maybe there's a compromise.


----------



## WhipeeDip

Here I am again with another request. Savu makes my pinkie hurt after a while.

1. What's your grip style?
Very slight claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600 DPI, Windows 6/11. 1800 DPI might work too.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Not set yet, open to all suggestions

4. Do you want additional buttons?
The two side buttons at least.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, pretty much everything

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Do NOT want prediction

7. Other relevant information:
As I said above, Savu makes my pinkie hurt after a while.
Want a "flawless" sensor like 3090.
Also prefer lighter mice, but heavy is fine too. Open to all suggestions.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhipeeDip*
> 
> Here I am again with another request. Savu makes my pinkie hurt after a while.


Do you rest your thumb flat against the side? I'm guessing it's because of how the back half of the mouse fits your palm.


----------



## WhipeeDip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Do you rest your thumb flat against the side? I'm guessing it's because of how the back half of the mouse fits your palm.


Not really, thumb is kind of curved like a claw. The Savu's bottom right end touches the base of my pinkie, affecting the rest of it.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

I have a Logitech M510. It is noticeably jumpy in FPSs when sniping. Is this due to the wireless aspect, and if yes, is there another mouse similar to this (two side buttons, laser or optical (whichever is better), fairly big so I can palm grip it with my beefy hands) at around the same price (I got this for $15 at Best Buy) but with a cable?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I have a Logitech M510. It is noticeably jumpy in FPSs when sniping. Is this due to the wireless aspect, and if yes, is there another mouse similar to this (two side buttons, laser or optical (whichever is better), fairly big so I can palm grip it with my beefy hands) at around the same price (I got this for $15 at Best Buy) but with a cable?


Could you get a DeathAdder, and would their native C.P.I. settings suffice to prevent added latency of the 450 and 900 C.P.I. settings?


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhipeeDip*
> 
> Not really, thumb is kind of curved like a claw. The Savu's bottom right end touches the base of my pinkie, affecting the rest of it.


Oh okay, I know what you mean. I bet you'd like the WMO/SteelSeries/Zowie kind of shape since it has a wider base and peaks more towards the middle.

Out of those the closest you're looking is the FK, although it has weird DPI for you (1200 and 2300 are closest, and 2300 can be jittery on some pads).

Apart from those maybe the CM Storm Spawn or EC2.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I have a Logitech M510. It is noticeably jumpy in FPSs when sniping. Is this due to the wireless aspect, and if yes, is there another mouse similar to this (two side buttons, laser or optical (whichever is better), fairly big so I can palm grip it with my beefy hands) at around the same price (I got this for $15 at Best Buy) but with a cable?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you get a DeathAdder, and would their native C.P.I. settings suffice to prevent added latency of the 450 and 900 C.P.I. settings?
Click to expand...

Expensive, but I have a friend with one. I'll see if I can convince him to let me test-drive it.


----------



## Rumble111

1. What's your grip style?
I don't really know - i'll try to explain.
1a. on my old MS X8 the parts of my hand touching the mouse are my fingers (the whole last didget of the finger, not the very tip like i see in 'claw' photos), thumb and I grib the right side of the mouse with my whole right pinky including the base of it where it meets the palm. I find this comfortable.
1b. On my my newer steelseries kana - only my fingers touch the mouse as it's so much smaller than the x8.

2. What's your sensitivity?

mid - i can adapt to anything commonly set as a default . the low and high settings on the mouse are useless to me.

3. What's your maximum budget?
none.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
thumb buttons - up to two are useful

5. What games do you play?
League, starcraft, RPGs, the occasion mmo

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no idea.

7. Other relevant information:
I had a 518 a long while back - i did like the general shape, but my pinky would sometimes drag on the mouse mat which was a bit uncomfortable.

I'm in Aussie - think some brands like zowie are a little hard to obtain. Could be wrong


----------



## WhipeeDip

Didn't want to start a new thread over this, so this is the closest related thread I could find.
I'm looking around for new mice (after getting my Savu and realizing that maybe I should test shapes first) and was wondering if Best Buy lets you test mice (closest store to me).


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhipeeDip*
> 
> Didn't want to start a new thread over this, so this is the closest related thread I could find.
> I'm looking around for new mice (after getting my Savu and realizing that maybe I should test shapes first) and was wondering if Best Buy lets you test mice (closest store to me).


I.I.R.C., BestBuy's return policy is no questions for fifteen days unless it would be damaged or have missing parts, but i returned an older S.B. X-Fi without its remote and driver C.D. Please, if true, someone confirm this. I returned so many P.C. parts at BestBuy, so I doubt that they would not accept your return within their allotted timeframe.


----------



## FurryPaws

After having a go a wireless mice, I'm now sure I want to remain "wired".

So here we go again, maybe this time somebody dignifies my post with a reply:

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertyp

2. What's your sensitivity?

9/11

3. What's your maximum budget?

As little as possible, as much as needed.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Wouldn't hurt, but I don't see what for.

5. What games do you play?

Only SC2 1v1.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Not sure.

7. Other relevant information:

Wired, preferably silver or maybe white and if at all possible made out of metal.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryPaws*
> 
> After having a go a wireless mice, I'm now sure I want to remain "wired".
> 
> So here we go again, maybe this time somebody dignifies my post with a reply:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertyp
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 9/11
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> As little as possible, as much as needed.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Wouldn't hurt, but I don't see what for.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Only SC2 1v1.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Not sure.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Wired, preferably silver or maybe white and if at all possible made out of metal.


You might like the corsair mice, as they tend to have metal bodies and look like they'd work well with a fingertip grip. They are really heavy as a result of this, though.

The Zowie AM is a really nice mouse if you want to do a fingertip grip, and the FG variant is white.


----------



## Pirius

1. What's your grip style?
It changes. Most of the time I use a fingertip grip but when I play twitch shooter I often move my hand up into a quasi claw grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Pretty low, usually between 1600-2400

3. What's your maximum budget?
Don't really have one

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Forward, back other then that I don't really care. A couple would be nice for mmos but not if they are clunky/ in the way (Naga)

5. What games do you play?
RTS/ FPS/MMO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd prefer no prediction.

7. Other relevant information:

A couple of things:
I play a couple of games that require incredibly fast, incredibly accurate clicking. I run a metronome in the background to help and on average I am doing a 2 click combo at 208 bpm. My last mouse was a Naos 3200 and in the past couple of months the left and right click have been getting progressively worse, sometimes double clicking when I single click, sometimes not holding a click down, and sometimes just not clicking at all. I was wondering if all mice will degrade like this or if there are mice with high quality switches that can take this kind of punishment.

LOD doesn't matter to me, I rarely lift the mouse off the keyboard, and when I do I raise it pretty high.

At the same time that I grab this mouse I also want to get a new mousepad, and was hoping to get a plastic one instead of cloth for the ease of cleaning and the overall slipperiness of it. Is mousepad texture 100% up to me, or do some sensors work better on cloth vs plastic? If the mouse you recommend will work on plastic could you also throw in a recommendation as to the best plastic mousepads out there?

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirius*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> It changes. Most of the time I use a fingertip grip but when I play twitch shooter I often move my hand up into a quasi claw grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Pretty low, usually between 1600-2400
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Don't really have one
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Forward, back other then that I don't really care. A couple would be nice for mmos but not if they are clunky/ in the way (Naga)
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> RTS/ FPS/MMO
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd prefer no prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> A couple of things:
> I play a couple of games that require incredibly fast, incredibly accurate clicking. I run a metronome in the background to help and on average I am doing a 2 click combo at 208 bpm. My last mouse was a Naos 3200 and in the past couple of months the left and right click have been getting progressively worse, sometimes double clicking when I single click, sometimes not holding a click down, and sometimes just not clicking at all. I was wondering if all mice will degrade like this or if there are mice with high quality switches that can take this kind of punishment.
> 
> LOD doesn't matter to me, I rarely lift the mouse off the keyboard, and when I do I raise it pretty high.
> 
> At the same time that I grab this mouse I also want to get a new mousepad, and was hoping to get a plastic one instead of cloth for the ease of cleaning and the overall slipperiness of it. Is mousepad texture 100% up to me, or do some sensors work better on cloth vs plastic? If the mouse you recommend will work on plastic could you also throw in a recommendation as to the best plastic mousepads out there?
> 
> Thanks


I'd consider 1600 DPI to be medium sensitivity. Low is 400 or 800 DPI.

The Roccat Savu might be good for you. It seems like it would fit well if you were doing a fingertip or claw grip. It has Omron switches, as well, which are the best for extremely fast clicking.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Steelseries 9HD. if only they made on the size of the Qck+, I'd buy one.


----------



## FurryPaws

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You might like the corsair mice, as they tend to have metal bodies and look like they'd work well with a fingertip grip. They are really heavy as a result of this, though.
> 
> The Zowie AM is a really nice mouse if you want to do a fingertip grip, and the FG variant is white.


Did you just know this by heart?

Thanks for the great recommendations, I love the simple look of the Zowie AM-FG!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryPaws*
> 
> Did you just know this by heart?
> 
> Thanks for the great recommendations, I love the simple look of the Zowie AM-FG!


I have a good memory.

Just keep in mind that zowie mice tend to have trouble doing more than 3 metres per second, so if you use a huge mouse pad, then you might have some trouble.


----------



## FurryPaws

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what that means.

Surely you can't mean physically moving the mouse for 3 meters in a second, so I can only assume that the pointer moves for three metres.
But how is that measured and what does have to do with the size of the mousepad?

Like, when I play SC2, I might hit the 3m/s, but my mouse hardly moves at all and if my monitor were smaller, so would be the distance travelled by the mouse pointer...

And yeah, you would have a good memory, working as an architect, marine biologist, importer / exporter AND latex salesman...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryPaws*
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what that means.
> 
> Surely you can't mean physically moving the mouse for 3 meters in a second, so I can only assume that the pointer moves for three metres.
> But how is that measured and what does have to do with the size of the mousepad?
> 
> Like, when I play SC2, I might hit the 3m/s, but my mouse hardly moves at all and if my monitor were smaller, so would be the distance travelled by the mouse pointer...
> 
> And yeah, you would have a good memory, working as an architect, marine biologist, importer / exporter AND latex salesman...


metres per second is a measure of velocity; it doesn't have to move 3 metres to malfunction, it just has to go faster than that velocity to malfunction.

It's pretty hard to actually hit that speed. download the enotus mouse test and see how fast you tend to realistically move your mouse.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryPaws*
> 
> And yeah, you would have a good memory, working as an architect, marine biologist, importer / exporter AND latex salesman...


Wait, what?


----------



## taktioes

Hey guys, long time lurker and first time poster. Wanted to get some opinions on an impending addition to my mouse collection!
Until recently i was completely oblivious to the variations in sensors and although i knew about accelerations and prediction ect i assumed they could just be forced off in driver software ect.
I already own a Mamba 4G, R.A.T 9, Sensei Fnatic edition and G9x. Im currently using them on a Steelseries SX aluminium mousepad. TBH i dont think it matters that much to me that these sensors have flaws because i really enjoy using them both in day to day tasks and for the gaming I do.

But recently i wanted to be systematic about finding sensitivity settings that suits me best, which lead me here and to reading about sensors ect ect ect. Several hours of reading and digging latter I would love some advise:
(Just to note, price is no obstacle, ill pay what i need to)
1. I want a mouse without a "flawed" sensor for the simple fact that i would like to see what its like in comparison to my current setup.
2. Im looking for a mouse that has a few more buttons then just the standard left, right, middle and 2 "thumb" side buttons.
At the moment im looking at the Logitech g700s.

So can i get some opinions on the S9808 sensor? I have been trying to read about it but i can't find much more then "its pretty good". Does it have anything like what could be called 1:1 (IE no inherent prediction or acceleration problems?) Does the wireless make that impossible?

Was also thinking of coupling this with a Corsair MM600 mousepad because i have worn through the teflon on my Steelseries SX and it has a slow spot in the centre









Given that i love smooth frictionless feel to a mousepad anyone disagree with buying the Corsair and could recommend something different?

Hopefully im not asking too much in first post









Thanks for all the info you guys have lying around though,definitely an eye opener!


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taktioes*
> 
> Hey guys, long time lurker and first time poster. Wanted to get some opinions on an impending addition to my mouse collection!
> Until recently i was completely oblivious to the variations in sensors and although i knew about accelerations and prediction ect i assumed they could just be forced off in driver software ect.
> I already own a Mamba 4G, R.A.T 9, Sensei Fnatic edition and G9x. Im currently using them on a Steelseries SX aluminium mousepad. TBH i dont think it matters that much to me that these sensors have flaws because i really enjoy using them both in day to day tasks and for the gaming I do.
> 
> But recently i wanted to be systematic about finding sensitivity settings that suits me best, which lead me here and to reading about sensors ect ect ect. Several hours of reading and digging latter I would love some advise:
> (Just to note, price is no obstacle, ill pay what i need to)
> 1. I want a mouse without a "flawed" sensor for the simple fact that i would like to see what its like in comparison to my current setup.
> 2. Im looking for a mouse that has a few more buttons then just the standard left, right, middle and 2 "thumb" side buttons.
> At the moment im looking at the Logitech g700s.
> 
> So can i get some opinions on the S9808 sensor? I have been trying to read about it but i can't find much more then "its pretty good". Does it have anything like what could be called 1:1 (IE no inherent prediction or acceleration problems?) Does the wireless make that impossible?
> 
> Was also thinking of coupling this with a Corsair MM600 mousepad because i have worn through the teflon on my Steelseries SX and it has a slow spot in the centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given that i love smooth frictionless feel to a mousepad anyone disagree with buying the Corsair and could recommend something different?
> 
> Hopefully im not asking too much in first post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the info you guys have lying around though,definitely an eye opener!


Logitech G700s is a fantastic mouse, if you have the money, I can't think of a single other mouse I would rather have for reliability.


----------



## Master davo 1

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
€100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yes

7. Other relevant information:
under 90g weight


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master davo 1*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> €100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 thumb buttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> under 90g weight


I think a Zowie AM or FK would be good for you. You should be aware that their malfunction speed tends to be around 3 metres a second, so if you are doing 18"+ for a 360, then you could run into problems.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
2300 DPI (but I use an acceleration curve that changes things a lot)

3. What's your maximum budget?
€100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Maybe

7. Other relevant information:
-Low Lod
-Lightweight
-Light weight switches for crazy rts clicking action


----------



## magicaru banana

Looking for a wireless mouse for a friend.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
1000-2000 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Around 2.

5. What games do you play?
Path of Exile, Torchlight 2, some FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
- Prefer smaller mouse, Deathadder and Sensei too large.
- Has to be wireless.


----------



## traju

Hi,
I'm looking for a new good mouse. I hope you'll help me guys









1. What's your grip style?
- Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
- 800dpi - due the limitations of actual mouse. I'm a mid sensitivity player.

3. What's your maximum budget?
- unlimited

4. Do you want additional buttons?
- 2 thumb buttons + dpi switch button (optional)

5. What games do you play?
- CS:GO, BF3, CoD and occasionally games like Skyrim, some RTS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
- Not really as it's not big.

7. Other relevant information:
additional pros:
- Low LOD because I'm often lifting mouse when looking around in game (but it could be related to the sensitivity of my actual mouse)
- Software which allows to change key functions in windows, games etc.

8. Hard or cloth?
- cloth due its quietness

9. Rough or smooth?
- something in between. I like to have good control.

10. Which size approximately?
- small or mid. I don't have space for big mousepad.

11. What's your maximum budget?
- unlimited


----------



## Tynki

Hello Guys I want to change my DA 3.5G because I don't like so much of his grip.
I'm I totally Firgergrip player, so I want a mice that feels comfortable in my hands.

I read a lot of reviews and now I'm in doubt between this two mouses:
Corsair Vengeance M65 and Roccat Savu.

I would like to now, whats of this mouses do you guys think is the best.
I'm almost a exclusively FPS player, so of course the mouse should be good to some headshots.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tynki*
> 
> Hello Guys I want to change my DA 3.5G because I don't like so much of his grip.
> I'm I totally Firgergrip player, so I want a mice that feels comfortable in my hands.
> 
> I read a lot of reviews and now I'm in doubt between this two mouses:
> Corsair Vengeance M65 and Roccat Savu.
> 
> I would like to now, whats of this mouses do you guys think is the best.
> I'm almost a exclusively FPS player, so of course the mouse should be good to some headshots.


The Corsair mouse is an ADNS-9500 or 9800, which both have noticable acceleration built in, so don't get that.

The Savu is a good mouse.

other ones you should consider are:
Zowie AM or FK (somewhat low max tracking speed of ~3 metres per second)
Roccat Kone pure optical
Rat 3 optical
logitech G400 (if you are a masochist







)


----------



## Tynki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Corsair mouse is an ADNS-9500 or 9800, which both have noticable acceleration built in, so don't get that.
> 
> The Savu is a good mouse.
> 
> other ones you should consider are:
> Zowie AM or FK (somewhat low max tracking speed of ~3 metres per second)
> Roccat Kone pure optical
> Rat 3 optical
> logitech G400 (if you are a masochist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Thank You man.


----------



## Emospence

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
For the purposes of this discussion.. No budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons, maybe 2-3 for dpi settings? That's what I'm used to on my G400

5. What games do you play?
WoW

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I don't want this

7. Other relevant information:
-Sweaty palms
-Hard pad
-Medium-large hands (since I'm Asian, this probably means medium-small to you guys >.>)
-I love the shape on G400, just that it might be a tad on the heavy side?
-Must have an excellent sensor. The G400's optical is a good benchmark for what I'm looking for.


----------



## Panos Is

Hello, I am looking for a new mouse. My crappy wireless gaming mouse is pretty awesome but it is too small for a palm grip and the rubberized thumb rest seems to have melted at 35 degrees and now it's sticky as hell. Gonna go for a refund but now I need a new mouse/

1. What's your grip style?
Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
~1500 dpi but i'd like to have a max of ~3k for some uses. If not not a huge prob.

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Nah but I don't mind them. Maybe 2 thumb buttons

5. What games do you play?
A lot of stuff from third person shooters to rts's and moba's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I don't want this

7. Other relevant information:
No low-quality rubber that gets sticky at high temps








I'm used to the MX rev mouse so I want something highly ergonomic.
I don't really mind about bling quality but I want high build quality.
I'm like my mouse to be a bit on the heavy side so either adjustable weight or a heavy mouse would be good.

Thanks in advance


----------



## cl4752

I am in the market for a new mouse and keyboard to go along with a new system I am building and looking for some suggestions:

For the mouse I am going to use the guide posted on this forum to narrow down what I am looking for..

1. What's your grip style? Float between finger tip and palm. My hands are decent sized man hands







However, I don't think I could palm a basketball. Fingers not long enough to do that.

2. What's your sensitivity? I like pin point accuracy so I would say high. 50% of what I do on my computer is web browsing. 20% is Photoshop picture editing, The remainder is equally divided between gaming (shooter style) and other productivity.

3. What's your maximum budget? I don't have a budget. I want quality components, that are durable, and easily maintained and cleaned. I don't want to buy something that is going to fall apart, wear out, or look like crap after a while (show signs of wear, chip, or have paint flake off).

4. Do you want additional buttons? Standard 2 button with a scroll wheel would be ideal. Extra buttons not required but would be considered cake if they were part of the deal.

5. What games do you play? Battlefield, COD series (all), Madden Football a mouse that would give me an advantage in these games would be a major plus









6. Do you mind about prediction? I can take it or leave it. If it can be switched on or off that would be a bonus.

7. Other relevant information: Any mouse or keyboard recommendation MUST be wired. If the device was multi colored LED illuminated that would be great but not a deal breaker. I have a preference for trackball mice but if there is something light years better I am open to suggestions. I have had wired Logitech and Microsoft Trackball mice in the past. (Seeing what both are fetching on Amazon and EBAY I wish I had bought a case of them because the return on that investment would have paid for them ten fold). I want quality and I am willing to pay for it.

Keyboard wise... I do a lot of typing. *My only real requirement is that it is a wired keyboard and is LED illuminated.* Extra keys not important and standard layout with numeric keypad is fine. Again Quality and Durability along with something built to last is what is important. No budget on the keyboard either.

Its also important to note that the Keyboard and Mouse can come from different manufacturers. The brands do not need to match.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cl4752*
> 
> I am in the market for a new mouse and keyboard to go along with a new system I am building and looking for some suggestions:
> 
> For the mouse I am going to use the guide posted on this forum to narrow down what I am looking for..
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Float between finger tip and palm. My hands are decent sized man hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, I don't think I could palm a basketball. Fingers not long enough to do that.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I like pin point accuracy so I would say high. 50% of what I do on my computer is web browsing. 20% is Photoshop picture editing, The remainder is equally divided between gaming (shooter style) and other productivity.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? I don't have a budget. I want quality components, that are durable, and easily maintained and cleaned. I don't want to buy something that is going to fall apart, wear out, or look like crap after a while (show signs of wear, chip, or have paint flake off).
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Standard 2 button with a scroll wheel would be ideal. Extra buttons not required but would be considered cake if they were part of the deal.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Battlefield, COD series (all), Madden Football a mouse that would give me an advantage in these games would be a major plus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I can take it or leave it. If it can be switched on or off that would be a bonus.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Any mouse or keyboard recommendation MUST be wired. If the device was multi colored LED illuminated that would be great but not a deal breaker. I have a preference for trackball mice but if there is something light years better I am open to suggestions. I have had wired Logitech and Microsoft Trackball mice in the past. (Seeing what both are fetching on Amazon and EBAY I wish I had bought a case of them because the return on that investment would have paid for them ten fold). I want quality and I am willing to pay for it.
> 
> Keyboard wise... I do a lot of typing. *My only real requirement is that it is a wired keyboard and is LED illuminated.* Extra keys not important and standard layout with numeric keypad is fine. Again Quality and Durability along with something built to last is what is important. No budget on the keyboard either.
> 
> Its also important to note that the Keyboard and Mouse can come from different manufacturers. The brands do not need to match.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I would say have a look at the Razr Deathadder, Logitech g400, those are generally good well know mice withouth acceleration or prediction.

But may I ask what dpi settings you prefer, and if you like ergonomic shape mice more then ambidextrous.
And what mice did u use before what did you like about them or dislike.


----------



## cl4752

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> I would say have a look at the Razr Deathadder, Logitech g400, those are generally good well know mice withouth acceleration or prediction.
> 
> But may I ask what dpi settings you prefer, and if you like ergonomic shape mice more then ambidextrous.
> And what mice did u use before what did you like about them or dislike.


Ok... I am huge fan of the MS Trackball (which I am currently using) and the Logitech Trackball. I have a preference for the MS Trackball over the Logitech because the size is slightly bigger and the trackball falls more in line with the natural placement of my thumb. The scroll wheel is perfectly aligned with my middle finger. What do I like about these two trackball mice? I do not constantly have to move them around on a mouse pad or on my desk surface. It stays in one place and my thumb does all the moving. If it ever acts up I pop the trackball out, vacuum out the lint, and wipe it down with some windex... It works like brand new. Ambidextrous use is not a concern I am right handed and only use my right hand with a mouse. As far as the DPI... I have no clue what my MS Trackball is. Whatever it is... It works for me.

I am not opposed to a non trackball mouse as long as it has good precision and I can cover my screen without having to move the mouse a lot drag or constantly lifting and repositioning.

Thanks for your reply.


----------



## SinX7

1. What's your grip style? Mainly fingertip grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? Around 900

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? Must have the Forward and Backward button (At least those too, I can't browse without it now! Lol)

5. What games do you play? Mainly FPS (CS:S, BF3, Payday 2, etc.) Some RTS, Sims 3, and many more.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Don't mind, if it works "perfectly".

7. Other relevant information: Preferred a WIRED, but I don't mind switching/trying WIRELESS. I do like a lot of the features to the G500, but I wanna try something else similar to it. It would be a plus, if I can change the lighting on the mouse also!

Thanks!


----------



## SinX7

1. What's your grip style? Mainly fingertip grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? Around 900

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? Must have the Forward and Backward button (At least those too, I can't browse without it now! Lol)

5. What games do you play? Mainly FPS (CS:S, BF3, Payday 2, etc.) Some RTS, Sims 3, and many more.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Don't mind, if it works "perfectly".

7. Other relevant information: Preferred a WIRED, but I don't mind switching/trying WIRELESS. I do like a lot of the features to the G500, but I wanna try something else similar to it. It would be a plus, if I can change the lighting on the mouse also!

Thanks!


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SinX7*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Mainly fingertip grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Around 900
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Must have the Forward and Backward button (At least those too, I can't browse without it now! Lol)
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Mainly FPS (CS:S, BF3, Payday 2, etc.) Some RTS, Sims 3, and many more.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Don't mind, if it works "perfectly".
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Preferred a WIRED, but I don't mind switching/trying WIRELESS. I do like a lot of the features to the G500, but I wanna try something else similar to it. It would be a plus, if I can change the lighting on the mouse also!
> 
> Thanks!


Logitech, as much as I love them, are terrible for fingertip grip. The g600 isnt bad for it, but I would look elsewere. Take a look at some of the Roccat's. They facilitate fingertip very nicely.


----------



## Emospence

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/palm hybrid I think?

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
For the purposes of this discussion.. No budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons, maybe 2-3 for dpi settings? That's what I'm used to on my G400

5. What games do you play?
WoW

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I don't want this

7. Other relevant information:
-Sweaty palms
-Hard pad
-Medium-large hands (since I'm Asian, this probably means medium-small to you guys >.>). After using the G400, the HP mouse I use at work which felt normal usually, suddenly felt small..
-I love the shape on G400, just that it might be a tad on the heavy side?
-Must have an excellent sensor. The G400's optical is a good benchmark for what I'm looking for.


----------



## pepejovi

I'm just looking to find the current-gen equal to my old mx518. Getting tired of my M90, and i want my mx518 back but the feet on it are ruined. Suggestions?


----------



## SinX7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Logitech, as much as I love them, are terrible for fingertip grip. The g600 isnt bad for it, but I would look elsewere. Take a look at some of the Roccat's. They facilitate fingertip very nicely.


I have the G500 right now and I love the buttons on it.

But I was actually looking at the Roccat Kone XTD, but I don't know if they are any good or high quality.

Also looking at the Razer Ouroboros.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pepejovi*
> 
> I'm just looking to find the current-gen equal to my old mx518. Getting tired of my M90, and i want my mx518 back but the feet on it are ruined. Suggestions?


G400 if you can still find it, G400s otherwise?


----------



## pepejovi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pepejovi*
> 
> I'm just looking to find the current-gen equal to my old mx518. Getting tired of my M90, and i want my mx518 back but the feet on it are ruined. Suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> G400 if you can still find it, G400s otherwise?
Click to expand...

Yeah just found the only retailer that still sells G400's in Finland sells them for 50 euro, while G400s goes for 62. G400s worth it?


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pepejovi*
> 
> Yeah just found the only retailer that still sells G400's in Finland sells them for 50 euro, while G400s goes for 62. G400s worth it?


Heck no, just don't stress (pull) the cable while using it.


----------



## RubyRhod

1. What's your grip style?
Mostly claw, some fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
low, fps 400, rts/moba 800

3. What's your maximum budget?
anywhere

4. Do you want additional buttons?
not needed

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO and DOTA mainly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I do not really mind

7. Other relevant information:
Open to any suggestions, I have fairly small hands. ATM I am using a Roccat Kone Pure, but I am unsure if I will keep it.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pepejovi*
> 
> Yeah just found the only retailer that still sells G400's in Finland sells them for 50 euro, while G400s goes for 62. G400s worth it?


God damn, that's expensive.


----------



## pepejovi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pepejovi*
> 
> Yeah just found the only retailer that still sells G400's in Finland sells them for 50 euro, while G400s goes for 62. G400s worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> God damn, that's expensive.
Click to expand...

That's Finland for you.


----------



## Riedeas

*1. What's your grip style?*
Hybridish between claw/palm, though i'm also using finger grip quite abit depending on what i do and what mice(i loved the MiCo)

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
1600ish dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
As much as it takes..

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons is really all i need

*5. What games do you play?*
CS:go, LoL/dota2, smite, gw2, APB:r, BF3

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Prefer not, but can deal with a very small amount of it.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Deathadder, g400 are too big so no go for me..
Kinda liked the zowie ec2 but the side buttons are really really MEH.
Razer Naga Hex had a nice size too it but i prefer the ec2 since it feels better in my hand, Hex had awesome buttons though.
I got smallish hands, 20 something CM.
I don't mind ambidextrous mices.
I prefer non braided cables but really i can live with a braided..
I Mainly move my mouse with wrist, though in some shooters i use quite low sensitivty and use my whole arm.
I love quality.

Help !


----------



## DiskaD

Hello everybody, 1st post here so be gentle please









Currently using Microsoft Optical Basic V2.0 , it's a small and light mouse but my fingers are very long and thin, I like it but when I get sweaty I dont feel conforable with it.
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/basic-optical-mouse

1. What's your grip style? *I move my mouse mostly with my fingers(fingertip grip) sometimes claw, never had the chance to try palm grip cause my mouse is to small to palm it, while my fingers are very long.*

2. What's your sensitivity? *I am currently using a 800 DPI mouse with prediction and lot of acceleration, so I think my native DPI will be around 1000++(w/o accelaration or prediction).*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*I don't want to move my mouse a lot.*



3. What's your maximum budget? *Dont care.*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *I think 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse are enough.*

5. What games do you play? *Dota 2 mostly.*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*I want to start playing some FPS soon*


*.*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *I would like one of the best sensors in the market since I am willing to spend money, but I dont mind about prediction.*

7. Other relevant information: *I prefer ambidextrous but never tried ergonomic. I don't want mouse software to have bugs, my hands are sweaty so I would like a nice grip, I would prefer a light mouse.*

After a lot of research I like these mice the most:
1-Zowie FK


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the Huano switches


2-Roccat Kone Pure Optical


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the grip.


3-CM storm Xornet


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Cheap and cool


4-CM storm Recon


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the shape and the scroll wheel


5-SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] (Black Rubbirized or Forst Blue)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried for the build quality and the sensor.


6-SteelSeries Kana v2


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the side buttons and the build quality.


7-Roccat Savu


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the build quality and the scroll wheel.


8-Razer Abyssus


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the build quality.


9-Logitech G400-G400s


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the cable and the grip.


10-Corsair M30-M40


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I am worried about the grip and the build quality.


11-Logitech G9X


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I think its a bit small and has a bad sensor for the price.


12-Ozone Radon Opto


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Worried about the brand the and build quality.



Sorry for the long post, I hope u are willing to help me to choose a mouse







.


----------



## DiskaD

Damn double post -.-


----------



## Art Vanelay

@DiskaD
Zowie FK:

the huano switches in Zowie mice are a bit differnent, but they are not so hard that you can't rapidly click them. For FPS games, I prefer them, since you can slam your mouse harder against the mousepad if you want without accidentally clicking. I doubt you would have a problem with them, unless you have weak fingers or something. You should try out a Zowie FK first, since the grip is a little narrow, and a lot of people complain about it. I like the AM, personally.

Zowie mice also have a low max tracking speed, but that shouldn't be a problem for you since you don't want to move around a lot.

Anything with a LASER sensor:

I doubt you'll have much of a problem unless you're using a low sensitivity. If you're doing maybe 10+ inches for a 360 in an FPS, you could notice it, but if you're doing less than that, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

G400:
good mouse but a really crappy scroll wheel.

As for the shape, you really need to try them out in person before making a decision. For the Zowie AM and FK, you can try out a Microsoft Wheel mouse optical to get a feel for that general shape, but keep in mind that they are both a bit thinner and smaller.


----------



## DiskaD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> @DiskaD
> Zowie FK:
> 
> the huano switches in Zowie mice are a bit differnent, but they are not so hard that you can't rapidly click them. For FPS games, I prefer them, since you can slam your mouse harder against the mousepad if you want without accidentally clicking. I doubt you would have a problem with them, unless you have weak fingers or something. You should try out a Zowie FK first, since the grip is a little narrow, and a lot of people complain about it. I like the AM, personally.
> 
> Zowie mice also have a low max tracking speed, but that shouldn't be a problem for you since you don't want to move around a lot.
> 
> Anything with a LASER sensor:
> 
> I doubt you'll have much of a problem unless you're using a low sensitivity. If you're doing maybe 10+ inches for a 360 in an FPS, you could notice it, but if you're doing less than that, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
> 
> G400:
> good mouse but a really crappy scroll wheel.
> 
> As for the shape, you really need to try them out in person before making a decision. For the Zowie AM and FK, you can try out a Microsoft Wheel mouse optical to get a feel for that general shape, but keep in mind that they are both a bit thinner and smaller.


Zowie FK-AM and Roccat Kone Pure Optical are not available in my country yet, it's worth waiting for the Zowie FK or AM?

All the other mice that I listed are available in my country. CM Storm Xornet costs 20euro , CM Storm Recon costs 40 euro, Sensei RAW costs 60 euro, Roccat Savu costs 50 euros.

So, should I wait for the 70 euro Zowie FK or just buy the Xornet or the Recon?

IDK, whats your opinion about the CM Storm Recon or Xornet? I think its better value for money than zowie FK.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiskaD*
> 
> Zowie FK-AM and Roccat Kone Pure Optical are not available in my country yet, it's worth waiting for the Zowie FK or AM?
> 
> All the other mice that I listed are available in my country. CM Storm Xornet costs 20euro , CM Storm Recon costs 40 euro, Sensei RAW costs 60 euro, Roccat Savu costs 50 euros.
> 
> So, should I wait for the 70 euro Zowie FK or just buy the Xornet or the Recon?
> 
> IDK, whats your opinion about the CM Storm Recon or Xornet? I think its better value for money than zowie FK.


IMO, get whatever fits your hand, as long as the sensor won't bother you. I'd use my old Intellimouse explorer if it didn't malfunction at 0.5 m/s.

Try out some in person and if you like the shape, get it, as long as the sensor is alright. the ADNS-9500 (most common LASER sensor) is alright if you don't use a low sensitivty.

if you're looking for an optical mouse, only the Savu, G400, Deathadder 3 & 3.5G, Kone pure optical, and Zowie mice are known to have sensors with no major flaws (prediction, jitter, etc.). The CM storm spawn is generally considered to be good, but a few people say that it has some jitter and/or acceleration problems.


----------



## Cab00se

_1. What's your grip style?_

Pretty much a Palm grip.

_2. What's your sensitivity?_

I generally use mid to high sensitivity. 2-6inches per 360, and 2000-4000 DPI

_3. What's your maximum budget?_

$80 US
_
4. Do you want additional buttons?_

I do prefer 2 side buttons but nothing more than that.

_5. What games do you play?_

Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Starcraft 2, DOTA 2. Pretty much a good mix of FPS and RTS.

_6. Do you mind about prediction?_

I do. I would like no prediction if possible, unless someone can convince me otherwise.
_
7. Other relevant information:_

I prefer optical mice, as the only laser mice I have used felt like they tracked weird.(was using Logitech mice if I remember right and hard mats). I need a bigger mouse for my larger hands. I have used a Deathadder for the past 4-5 years, which has literally a perfect form for my hand, and it is finally dieing. I would consider just getting a 2013, but I strongly dislike synapse 2.0, and have been scared away by what appears to be a plethora of problems and RMA's happening with these mice. Razor customer support has also always been a nightmare for me in the past, so all in all I am avoiding it. I looked into the Corsair m40, but was also scared away by a large amount having problems with their scroll wheels, as well as seeming just a tad to short. I have probably spent the last 3 weeks searching through reviews and such of mice, and haven't been able to find something I like. I wish I had a place around here that allowed me to actually test a mouse out, or at least just hold it in my hand, as that might help my choice a lot. I haven't had much of a chance to try many mice other than Logitech's and Razor's products. I really prefer a slight ergonomic approach as seen in the Deathadder, and dislike the mice that can be used as left/right. I also would like to stay away from shiny plastic that get smudges and grips poorly like the sides of my Deathadder. Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cab00se*
> 
> _1. What's your grip style?_
> 
> Pretty much a Palm grip.
> 
> _2. What's your sensitivity?_
> 
> I generally use mid to high sensitivity. 2-6inches per 360, and 2000-4000 DPI
> 
> _3. What's your maximum budget?_
> 
> $80 US
> _
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?_
> 
> I do prefer 2 side buttons but nothing more than that.
> 
> _5. What games do you play?_
> 
> Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Starcraft 2, DOTA 2. Pretty much a good mix of FPS and RTS.
> 
> _6. Do you mind about prediction?_
> 
> I do. I would like no prediction if possible, unless someone can convince me otherwise.
> _
> 7. Other relevant information:_
> 
> I prefer optical mice, as the only laser mice I have used felt like they tracked weird.(was using Logitech mice if I remember right and hard mats). I need a bigger mouse for my larger hands. I have used a Deathadder for the past 4-5 years, which has literally a perfect form for my hand, and it is finally dieing. I would consider just getting a 2013, but I strongly dislike synapse 2.0, and have been scared away by what appears to be a plethora of problems and RMA's happening with these mice. Razor customer support has also always been a nightmare for me in the past, so all in all I am avoiding it. I looked into the Corsair m40, but was also scared away by a large amount having problems with their scroll wheels, as well as seeming just a tad to short. I have probably spent the last 3 weeks searching through reviews and such of mice, and haven't been able to find something I like. I wish I had a place around here that allowed me to actually test a mouse out, or at least just hold it in my hand, as that might help my choice a lot. I haven't had much of a chance to try many mice other than Logitech's and Razor's products. I really prefer a slight ergonomic approach as seen in the Deathadder, and dislike the mice that can be used as left/right. I also would like to stay away from shiny plastic that get smudges and grips poorly like the sides of my Deathadder. Any help is greatly appreciated.


The deathadder has a pretty unique shaped shell, so if you liked it, then stay with it. I'd shy away from the 2013 version due to the reported smoothing feeling of the mouse's sensor.

You could also look into the Zowie EC Evo if you liked the shape of the deathadder, but it's a little different. The general reputation of the EC Evo doesn't tend to be too great, from what I've seen.


----------



## kotakueuro

1. What's your grip style?
Palm/Claw hybrid
2. What's your sensitivity?
3000 dpi at mid-high sens in game (~75% up the bar)
3. What's your maximum budget?
none
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I don't really care; the extra buttons on my old G700 went pretty much unused except for the tilt scroll wheel
5. What games do you play?
A mix of everything; LoL, FPS, lots of different MMOs (mainly SWTOR)
6. Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction
7. Other relevant information:
I use a Roccat Hiro. Main reason that I want a new mouse is because my current mouse (G700) is way too heavy and the side button placement interferes with my grip. I also use a Roccat Apuri for my bungee so I don't know if this will ruin braided cords or not. Don't really care about lights, preferably matte finish.


----------



## L4dd

*kotakueuro*, the DeathAdder 2013 is lighter than the previous DeathAdders and might be one of the best high sensitivity mice available regarding accurate tracking.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> *kotakueuro*, the DeathAdder 2013 is lighter than the previous DeathAdders and might be one of the best high sensitivity mice available regarding accurate tracking.


The only problem I've heard with it is some reported smoothing. If you need above 3500 DPI, go with the 2013 model, but if you need 3500 DPI or less, than the 3.5G model is still good and doesn't have as much of an obvious smoothing effect.


----------



## Snuckie7

Hey everybody; I'm looking to replace the Roccat Savu I just got a few weeks ago.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
None.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I only need side buttons

5. What games do you play?
CS GO, BF3, other single player shooters mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd prefer less, but it's not a huge concern to me.

7. Other relevant information:
So the main reason I want a new mouse&#8230;

I'm looking for a wider mouse with a comfortable spot to rest your pinky. This is my main gripe with the Savu, as my hand actually hurts after using it for a few weeks; the mouse is just too narrow.

Other things that would be nice (but secondary to everything else)
A plain, clean aesthetic. The Savu does great there.
A good sensor (duh).
A light cable (I hated how resilient the cable was on my old G9; the Savu also does great here)
Solid build quality

My hand measures about 20cm from the tip of my middle finger to the bottom of my palm btw.

I think that's it. Thanks for the suggestions everyone!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> Hey everybody; I'm looking to replace the Roccat Savu I just got a few weeks ago.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> None.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I only need side buttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS GO, BF3, other single player shooters mostly
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd prefer less, but it's not a huge concern to me.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> So the main reason I want a new mouse&#8230;
> 
> I'm looking for a wider mouse with a comfortable spot to rest your pinky. This is my main gripe with the Savu, as my hand actually hurts after using it for a few weeks; the mouse is just too narrow.
> 
> Other things that would be nice (but secondary to everything else)
> A plain, clean aesthetic. The Savu does great there.
> A good sensor (duh).
> A light cable (I hated how resilient the cable was on my old G9; the Savu also does great here)
> Solid build quality
> 
> My hand measures about 20cm from the tip of my middle finger to the bottom of my palm btw.
> 
> I think that's it. Thanks for the suggestions everyone!


The only one I can think of is the CM Spawn or Xornet, at least in the claw section. For palming the Mionix NAOS 3200 has a pinky rest as well.


----------



## Gir

1. What's your grip style? Claw, but at a somewhat shallow angle. So kind of a hybrid. I lift most of the weight with my pinky. Index finger on left click, middle finger on scroll wheel, ring finger on right click, pinky all the way off on the side to better lift the weight.

2. What's your sensitivity? High

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? Preferably 2 buttons. Not necessary

5. What games do you play? BF3, BF4, Quite a few TPS's, the occasional RTS.

6. Do you mind about prediction? Doesn't bother me.

7. Other relevant information: I prefer wireless, but I can do without. I'm using the cm storm spawn right now, but it's a little small for my tastes. My hand is usually pretty cramped and sore after an hour or two of gaming. Also, if it comes in white, that's great. Not necessary, but a nice plus.


----------



## niomosy

1. What's your grip style?
Palm.

2. What's your sensitivity?
~1200-1800 dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under $150.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
DPI increase/decrease in addition to the standard 5.

5. What games do you play?
TF2, WoW, D3, BF3

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd prefer not.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Something akin to a G5 / MX 518 body style seems to be solid. The SS Sensei felt a bit flat. The BA2013 seemed slightly small.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gir*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw, but at a somewhat shallow angle. So kind of a hybrid. I lift most of the weight with my pinky. Index finger on left click, middle finger on scroll wheel, ring finger on right click, pinky all the way off on the side to better lift the weight.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? High
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Preferably 2 buttons. Not necessary
> 
> 5. What games do you play? BF3, BF4, Quite a few TPS's, the occasional RTS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Doesn't bother me.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I prefer wireless, but I can do without. I'm using the cm storm spawn right now, but it's a little small for my tastes. My hand is usually pretty cramped and sore after an hour or two of gaming. Also, if it comes in white, that's great. Not necessary, but a nice plus.


Depending on how high of sensitivity that you use, the DeathAdder 2013 might be your best choice for slight claw gripping, and it is bigger than your Spawn.


----------



## colinx5

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm/claw depending on normal internet browsing or gaming.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Don't know unfortunately, would hazard a guess of 800-1000.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$80

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Just 2 side buttons. Prefer both of them to be on thumb side, not one on either side.

*5. What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't know, not enough experience.

*7. Other relevant information:*
I've dealt with RSI in the past and currently use a cloth mousepad with built in wrist rest.
I like adjustable weight, braided cable (so obviously wired), and something with rubber or rubberized finish at least on the sides.
I'm a sucker for LEDs but mainly blue to match my keyboard.


----------



## kovan

1. What's your grip style?
Palm mostly.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Very low

3. What's your maximum budget?
60€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No

5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't really know.

7. Other relevant information:
I used to have a MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 back in the day, but it was too big for my hands. Also, I have a Zowie AM but it is painfully narrow.

Thanks.


----------



## Sn598

*1. What's your grip style?

Hybrid Between Palm and Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

I am currently using a less than 1000 dpi mouse on my 3 monitor setup and feel it is not enough

3. What's your maximum budget?

75$

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Maybe 2 or 3

5. What games do you play?

Mainly FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I don't know.Not enough experience

7. Other relevant information:

I cannot buy the mionix series and the logitech g700s as they are not available in my country. They were never avaliable in my country for years .I currently deciding between Corsair M65 and the Logitech g602 which is soon available in my country*


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sn598*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Hybrid Between Palm and Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> I am currently using a less than 1000 dpi mouse on my 3 monitor setup and feel it is not enough
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 75$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Maybe 2 or 3
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Mainly FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I don't know.Not enough experience
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I cannot buy the mionix series and the logitech g700s as they are not available in my country. They were never avaliable in my country for years .I currently deciding between Corsair M65 and the Logitech g602 which is soon available in my country*


I will tell you now the Corsair M65 wont be the shape you want it to be. Ive used it and i needed more of a claw grip to use it. The new Logitech G602 should be a perfect fit as almost all their mice are palm/claw grips.


----------



## Sn598

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I will tell you now the Corsair M65 wont be the shape you want it to be. Ive used it and i needed more of a claw grip to use it. The new Logitech G602 should be a perfect fit as almost all their mice are palm/claw grips.


Will the 2500dpi be enough for the 3 monitor setup.I will buy then if it is fine for my setup


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sn598*
> 
> Will the 2500dpi be enough for the 3 monitor setup.I will buy then if it is fine for my setup


It should be, I use about 2400 with a sensitivity of 6 for daily use on my triple monitors.


----------



## Sn598

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> It should be, I use about 2400 with a sensitivity of 6 for daily use on my triple monitors.


Do you think the ttesports theron also is good for my grip?
What about roccat kone pure core mouses for big hands?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sn598*
> 
> Do you think the ttesports theron also is good for my grip?
> What about roccat kone pure core mouses for big hands?


I have no personal experiences with either. I just say get a Logitech due to the fact that they never die (at least for me and my family).


----------



## Sn598

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I have no personal experiences with either. I just say get a Logitech due to the fact that they never die (at least for me and my family).


Thanks Man for the help


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sn598*
> 
> Thanks Man for the help


Not a problem.


----------



## ole12

1. What's your grip style?
Hm, palm and fingertip/claw. Palm when Im surfing the "internet", and fingertip/claw when Im gaming.

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600-1800 I think,

3. What's your maximum budget?
I'll pay whatever it takes to get a good mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yea, the buttons on the left side with the thumb (back/forth)

5. What games do you play?
HON, DOTA2, SIMS, BF3, Steam games, Im not a FPS player.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I dont know what you're talking about

7. Other relevant information:
I have the Steelseries Sensei Fnatic wich I hate, not even a little comforty. And dont get me startet at the ****ty driver/software.
And Im using it with SteelSeries QcK+ pad.
I had the Sentinel Advance II before, and I did like it, but the left button got broken.

Im currently looking at Kone XTD and DA 2013, they look comfy and rather good.
Whatever the difference about the laser/optical, I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## L4dd

Prediction is an "angle snapping" algorithm that has a threshold for drawing straight lines, so you might not want that.

Of the two you picked, I would get the DeathAdder 2013 because of its tracking being more consistent than the Kone XTD.


----------



## Skylit

More like, prediction is a coined term for angle snapping^^


----------



## ole12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Prediction is an "angle snapping" algorithm that has a threshold for drawing straight lines, so you might not want that.
> 
> Of the two you picked, I would get the DeathAdder 2013 because of its tracking being more consistent than the Kone XTD.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> More like, prediction is a coined term for angle snapping^^


Oh, I see, did not know prediction and angel snapping where the same.
Anyway, the "tracking" you speak about, isnt more towards FPS gamers?
Since I dont play any FPS games.


----------



## cr4p

Grip Style: Relaxed Fingertip going to semi-claw
Sensitivity: 900dpi, some games requires me to switch to 1800 dpi
Needs: 3-4 Configurable buttons near thumb area.
P.S. I need blue lit mouse, black body as much as possible

Im using deathadder right now. Any suggestions for replacement? Thanks!


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ole12*
> 
> Oh, I see, did not know prediction and angel snapping where the same.
> Anyway, the "tracking" you speak about, isnt more towards FPS gamers?
> Since I dont play any FPS games.


Do you need more than 6,400 C.P.I., or do you dislike something regarding the DeathAdder 2013? If so, you might prefer another mouse, but I do not recommend Avago 9500/9800 sensor based mice because of their inconsistent tracking...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Prediction is an "angle snapping" algorithm that has a threshold for drawing straight lines, so you might not want that.
> 
> Of the two you picked, I would get the DeathAdder 2013 because of its tracking being more consistent than the Kone XTD.


Prediction is actually surprisingly detrimental to gameplay in FPS, considering how subtle it is. Comparing my ability to shoot between my MX518 and G400, I am able to kill a lot more easily with the G400.


----------



## Jubijub

*1. What's your grip style / mouse ?*

I'm comfortable with either full palm (low pace game), or hybrid palm/claw (FPS)

I currently have a G600, but this many button is very hard to use, and it's bad for FPS. Given my hand size, I can use it almost full palm, but I swtich to hybrid claw/palm when I play. I also don't like the DPI switch button, that is quite difficult to reach I think (I use the G7 button)

Before that I had a Razer Mamba

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
(I play on 27" on QHD)
1800, but I'm still adjusting to this







/ 800 when snipe

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

100CHF / 95€ / $130

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

I would like :
- 2 thumb buttons, easy to reach (essentially for scoping / aiming)
- DPI switch (I usually only use 2 values, so a switch is enough, I probably don't need DPI+ / DPI-

I privilege ease of accessibility of the buttons vs the number

*5. What games do you play?*

Mainly FPS (BF3 and soon BF4, CS, Farcry), Starcraft 2, and low need games (8Civ 5, Transport tycoon, XCom, etc...)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't know

*7. Other relevant information:*
Based on reviews, it seems Corsair M65 would be a good choice...
I'm based in Switzerland, and my dealer of choice is digitec.ch ...so I would favour mice available there


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jubijub*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style / mouse ?*
> 
> I'm comfortable with either full palm (low pace game), or hybrid palm/claw (FPS)
> 
> I currently have a G600, but this many button is very hard to use, and it's bad for FPS. Given my hand size, I can use it almost full palm, but I swtich to hybrid claw/palm when I play. I also don't like the DPI switch button, that is quite difficult to reach I think (I use the G7 button)
> 
> Before that I had a Razer Mamba
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> (I play on 27" on QHD)
> 1800, but I'm still adjusting to this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> / 800 when snipe
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> 100CHF / 95€ / $130
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> I would like :
> - 2 thumb buttons, easy to reach (essentially for scoping / aiming)
> - DPI switch (I usually only use 2 values, so a switch is enough, I probably don't need DPI+ / DPI-
> 
> I privilege ease of accessibility of the buttons vs the number
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> Mainly FPS (BF3 and soon BF4, CS, Farcry), Starcraft 2, and low need games (8Civ 5, Transport tycoon, XCom, etc...)
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I don't know
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> Based on reviews, it seems Corsair M65 would be a good choice...
> I'm based in Switzerland, and my dealer of choice is digitec.ch ...so I would favour mice available there


First: Congratulations on a very good avatar, it shows good taste in actors as well as in movies. It makes me asume you are just as handsome in real life as the person in the picture, I can tell from experience with such avatars









Recommendations:

G400(s)
Kone Pure Optical
Sensei (I guess you wouldn't mind the accel)
Kana v2 (not availabel yet)


----------



## Jubijub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> First: Congratulations on a very good avatar, it shows good taste in actors as well as in movies. It makes me asume you are just as handsome in real life as the person in the picture, I can tell from experience with such avatars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recommendations:
> 
> G400(s)
> Kone Pure Optical
> Sensei (I guess you wouldn't mind the accel)
> Kana v2 (not availabel yet)


Well, I can only say the same about yours, and therefore draw the same conclusions









Thanks for your list of recommandations. Two questions :
- why not the M65 ?
- why a roccat ? (I checked the mice, and this easyshift function may cause a problem : I normally use M5 for scope, which means it's pressed quite often...so I would have to disable this feature)
- G400 : while I love Logitech hardware, their drivers are very bad...
- Steelserie Sensei : it does look very good
- Steelserie Kana : I'm not sure I will like the fact btn 4 and 5 are on either side of the mouse.

The Sensei looks good...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jubijub*
> 
> Well, I can only say the same about yours, and therefore draw the same conclusions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your list of recommandations. Two questions :
> - why not the M65 ?
> - why a roccat ? (I checked the mice, and this easyshift function may cause a problem : I normally use M5 for scope, which means it's pressed quite often...so I would have to disable this feature)
> - G400 : while I love Logitech hardware, their drivers are very bad...
> - Steelserie Sensei : it does look very good
> - Steelserie Kana : I'm not sure I will like the fact btn 4 and 5 are on either side of the mouse.
> 
> The Sensei looks good...


I have no experience with M65 or any corsair mouse for that matter, so I can't recommend.

The Kone Pure Optical actually has dedicated dpi switch buttons, an you can deactivate "easy-shift".


----------



## jayfkay

epicgear cyclops. It has a 400dpi sniper button located near the 2 side buttons as well.
However it only has 1 regular dpi button and no software, so you will have to cycle through all 4 dpi steps with that.
IF you can buy one of those in switzerland, definitely give it a try. And you rly shouldnt limit yourself to some stupid site. Its easy to sign up on amazon etc, and amazon has a great return policy allowing you to return almost anything within 30 days with a printable return paper for free.
Either this or give the g400 a go, preferred over the g400s which costs almost twice as much.


----------



## Jubijub

I'm French originally, and the different with Switzerland is that CH is not part of Europe (well it's part "sort of")

CH is too small to have its own Amazon, so people order either on Amazon.de, or Amazon.fr...but guess what : Amazon doesn't ship hardware to Switzerland. In fact very few EU retailers ship to CH, and if they do, you are likely to pay stupid border taxes, making the purchase abroad irrelevant









I could still order to some website in FR and have it shipped at my mum, but I'll have to wait


----------



## runixfire

ive been using a deathadder forever. works fine. im looking to update here soon to something more ergonomic but honestly, theres so many decent mice out there its all about preference


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runixfire*
> 
> ive been using a deathadder forever. works fine. im looking to update here soon to something more ergonomic but honestly, theres so many decent mice out there its all about preference


If your upgrading from the deathadder soon, go look at the new Logitech G602. It should be a fantastic and cheap mouse.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> If your upgrading from the deathadder soon, go look at the new Logitech G602. It should be a fantastic and cheap mouse.


wait what!!!!

upgrading from a deathadder to a logitech G602, LOL!

Upgrading from a mouse with superior tracking no native acceleration and no input lag like with wireless mice like G602.
Please dont call the logitech G602 an upgrade.

Deathadder is a good mouse whats there to upgrade?
Sensor tracking is class. Mouse has good palm grip shape?
What you dont like that you want another mouse?
I could only think of the to easy to press mouseclicks or the shape if you are more a claw/fingertip user.

People should really not advise this overpriced garbage mice.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> Deathadder is a good mouse whats there to upgrade?
> Sensor tracking is class. Mouse has good palm grip shape?
> What you dont like that you want another mouse?
> I could only think of the to easy to press mouseclicks or the shape if you are more a claw/fingertip user.


I always found the shape the opposite of ergonomic. The only real problems are the clicks, the weight and the shape, if it doesn't fit you. Not much will be an actual upgrade.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> wait what!!!!
> 
> upgrading from a deathadder to a logitech G602, LOL!
> 
> Upgrading from a mouse with superior tracking no native acceleration and no input lag like with wireless mice like G602.
> Please dont call the logitech G602 an upgrade.
> 
> Deathadder is a good mouse whats there to upgrade?
> Sensor tracking is class. Mouse has good palm grip shape?
> What you dont like that you want another mouse?
> I could only think of the to easy to press mouseclicks or the shape if you are more a claw/fingertip user.
> 
> People should really not advise this overpriced garbage mice.


And you really need to actually learn about the mouse instead of quickly look up the stats on it. Don't tell me its not an upgrade when you know nothing about the mouse. I'm not even going to waist my breath on a fanboy like yourself because you wont care anyhow.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> And you really need to actually learn about the mouse instead of quickly look up the stats on it. Don't tell me its not an upgrade when you know nothing about the mouse. I'm not even going to waist my breath on a fanboy like yourself because you wont care anyhow.


*please....

this reaction could not be more childish.*

Why are you even on this forum if you cant even discuss with good arguments and facts why some product are better then another.
When you say logitech G206 is an upgrade over a well know deathadder.

Others can disagree like me, and can tell you exactly why we find X mouse (logitech G206 in this case) not an upgrade.

So dont get offended just start a discussion.
Other people can read along and learn things on the way.
Thats the beautiful thing about forums like this about mice or other stuff on OCN.

If you want I can clarify more specific why exactly the logitech G602 is not an upgrade over the razer deathadder.

I wont mind it at all to clarify it all for you.
There are even beautiful stickies in this mice forum wich helps it all understanding for you.

Then youre quote comment says it all.
to start summoning up:

_you really need to actually learn about the mouse instead of quickly look up the stats_

youre clearly making a judgement already when you dont my knowledge about the g206.
And we all know that stats mentioned by a marketing department on a box of a mouse are not facts but numbers in the greatest benefit tested with a mouse.

then you say

_Don't tell me its not an upgrade_

thats clearly behaviour of someone in puberty "dont tell me what to do"

then in youre next line of text you say

_on a fanboy like yourself_

you make another statement/judgement that I am a fanboy of some kind of brand.

"really what brand" I am curious because I myself dont know wich brand I like.

every pheripheral company has it better and worse products.

And If I should starting to mention all mice of different compagnies that I owned well then you would know its exactly the opposite.

So I challenge you make a thread and compare the Logitech G206 mouse vs a Deathadder and see what I and other have to say.
I just know for sure they all would say its definitely not an upgrade.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> *please....
> 
> this reaction could not be more childish.*
> 
> Why are you even on this forum if you cant even discuss with good arguments and facts why some product are better then another.
> When you say logitech G206 is an upgrade over a well know deathadder.
> 
> Others can disagree like me, and can tell you exactly why we find X mouse (logitech G206 in this case) not an upgrade.
> 
> So dont get offended just start a discussion.
> Other people can read along and learn things on the way.
> Thats the beautiful thing about forums like this about mice or other stuff on OCN.
> 
> If you want I can clarify more specific why exactly the logitech G602 is not an upgrade over the razer deathadder.
> 
> I wont mind it at all to clarify it all for you.
> There are even beautiful stickies in this mice forum wich helps it all understanding for you.
> 
> Then youre quote comment says it all.
> to start summoning up:
> 
> _you really need to actually learn about the mouse instead of quickly look up the stats_
> 
> youre clearly making a judgement already when you dont my knowledge about the g206.
> And we all know that stats mentioned by a marketing department on a box of a mouse are not facts but numbers in the greatest benefit tested with a mouse.
> 
> then you say
> 
> _Don't tell me its not an upgrade_
> 
> thats clearly behaviour of someone in puberty "dont tell me what to do"
> 
> then in youre next line of text you say
> 
> _on a fanboy like yourself_
> 
> you make another statement/judgement that I am a fanboy of some kind of brand.
> 
> "really what brand" I am curious because I myself dont know wich brand I like.
> 
> every pheripheral company has it better and worse products.
> 
> And If I should starting to mention all mice of different compagnies that I owned well then you would know its exactly the opposite.
> 
> So I challenge you make a thread and compare the Logitech G206 mouse vs a Deathadder and see what I and other have to say.
> I just know for sure they all would say its definitely not an upgrade.


Oh sorry for the childish comments, terrible morning. I will do just that when the mouse actually gets released and people can get their hands on it.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Thank you for growing up this fast









I can see you already have a nice car


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> Thank you for growing up this fast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see you already have a nice car


I will let you know (if I remember) when I make that thread comparing the two.

I do have a nice car thank you. Very very fast and easy to drive.


----------



## BaloneyOs

Hey folks! After some recent lack of success with a number of new mice, I was wondering if you guys offer some suggestions to my apparently very picky needs.

*1. What's your grip style?*

Fingertip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

27" monitor @ 1920 x 1080. Outside of games I'd like to be able to move my mouse at 9/11 sensitivity @ 1000 dpi but I'll be using 6/11 in-game.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$80, maybe more if it's really worth it.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Pretty optional but having good, unobtrusive thumb buttons is always nice.

*5. What games do you play?*

The games I play where precision will be the most relevant will be FPS's such as Battlefield 4 and other shooters.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Well, from what I hear prediction is a big no-no for gaming so I'd rather not have it.

*7. Mouse I'm currently used to?*

This one: http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Accessories/Mice-and-Keyboards/KY619AA

I've been using this HP mouse for a long time and the reason why I want to switch to a higher DPI mouse is because I use 9/11 windows mouse sensitivity which causes the staircasing movement for games. That kind of jagged movement in FPS's makes me a little sick. 6/11 sensitivity is too slow for normal Windows operations on this non-adjustable1000 dpi mouse.

*8. Mice I've tried and didn't like?*

All of these had at least one huge problem for me which is why I took these back.

Logitech G400s - Too big for fingertip grip in a way that stressed my ring finger. Otherwise good.

Logitech G100s - Would have been _perfect_ had the clicks not been so shallow and resistant. It feels like I had to click hard (especially the right click) and even then I still barely felt the click.

Razer Abyssus - Would have been very good but
1. it was limited to just 3 DPI increments
2. the liftoff distance was astronomical (my HP mouse puts this to shame!)
3. bright LED couldn't be turned off

CM Storm Recon - Mouse was too high to the point where I felt like I had to strain my wrist just to get my hand up the mouse. The mouse buttons also didn't have enough resistance for me. Also, I think Logitech spoiled me in terms of custom DPI adjustments because I still didn't like how even with the software you can only have 4 DPI increments.

*9. You're so picky!*

Yep =P. I guess I'm expecting too much. If only the G100s didn't have terrible clicks I would've 100% kept that one.

*10. TL;DR*

In a nutshell I guess I just look for a mouse with:
1. Custom DPI adjustments like the Logitech software allows you to.
2. Short liftoff distance.
3. Fingertip grip. I suppose the closer it is to that HP mouse in size the better.

Already tried and took back: Logitech G100s, G400s, Razer Abyssus, and CM Storm Recon.

I have a SS Kinzu v2 Pro on the way so we'll see how that goes but until then, I'd very much appreciate and look into any suggestion


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaloneyOs*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey folks! After some recent lack of success with a number of new mice, I was wondering if you guys offer some suggestions to my apparently very picky needs.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 27" monitor @ 1920 x 1080. Outside of games I'd like to be able to move my mouse at 9/11 sensitivity @ 1000 dpi but I'll be using 6/11 in-game.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $80, maybe more if it's really worth it.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Pretty optional but having good, unobtrusive thumb buttons is always nice.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> The games I play where precision will be the most relevant will be FPS's such as Battlefield 4 and other shooters.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Well, from what I hear prediction is a big no-no for gaming so I'd rather not have it.
> 
> *7. Mouse I'm currently used to?*
> 
> This one: http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Accessories/Mice-and-Keyboards/KY619AA
> 
> I've been using this HP mouse for a long time and the reason why I want to switch to a higher DPI mouse is because I use 9/11 windows mouse sensitivity which causes the staircasing movement for games. That kind of jagged movement in FPS's makes me a little sick. 6/11 sensitivity is too slow for normal Windows operations on this non-adjustable1000 dpi mouse.
> 
> *8. Mice I've tried and didn't like?*
> 
> All of these had at least one huge problem for me which is why I took these back.
> 
> Logitech G400s - Too big for fingertip grip in a way that stressed my ring finger. Otherwise good.
> 
> Logitech G100s - Would have been _perfect_ had the clicks not been so shallow and resistant. It feels like I had to click hard (especially the right click) and even then I still barely felt the click.
> 
> Razer Abyssus - Would have been very good but
> 1. it was limited to just 3 DPI increments
> 2. the liftoff distance was astronomical (my HP mouse puts this to shame!)
> 3. bright LED couldn't be turned off
> 
> CM Storm Recon - Mouse was too high to the point where I felt like I had to strain my wrist just to get my hand up the mouse. The mouse buttons also didn't have enough resistance for me. Also, I think Logitech spoiled me in terms of custom DPI adjustments because I still didn't like how even with the software you can only have 4 DPI increments.
> 
> *9. You're so picky!*
> 
> Yep =P. I guess I'm expecting too much. If only the G100s didn't have terrible clicks I would've 100% kept that one. In a nutshell I guess I just look for a mouse with:
> 1. Custom DPI adjustments like the Logitech software allows you to.
> 2. Short liftoff distance.
> 3. Fingertip grip. I suppose the closer it is to that HP mouse in size the better.
> 
> I have a SS Kinzu v2 Pro on the way so we'll see how that goes but until then, I'd very much appreciate and look into any suggestion


You could try the Zowie AM. IMO, that's the best shape I have ever seen if you want to fingertip. It does however have some weird nearly imperceptible laggyness and only 3 DPI steps. The clicks are really hard and have a fairly short travel. The mouse also malfunctions at about 2.7-3.3 meters per second.

You could also try the Deathadder 3.5G, although the clicks are a bit squishy and the mouse's weight tends to be too far toward the back when you fingertip grip it.

The Roccat Savu is also an option. I don't know much about it, though.

The Logitech G400 is about the worst thing you could possibly get if you were going for fingertip grip.


----------



## BaloneyOs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You could try the Zowie AM. IMO, that's the best shape I have ever seen if you want to fingertip. It does however have some weird nearly imperceptible laggyness and only 3 DPI steps. The clicks are really hard and have a fairly short travel. The mouse also malfunctions at about 2.7-3.3 meters per second.


Looks neat, but it seems that like the Abyssus it only has preset DPI adjustments. This is also actually even thinner than what I expected so I do wonder if that could end up being a good or a bad thing.
Quote:


> You could also try the Deathadder 3.5G, although the clicks are a bit squishy and the mouse's weight tends to be too far toward the back when you fingertip grip it.


Hmm yeah not sure about this one for quite a few reasons.
Quote:


> The Roccat Savu is also an option. I don't know much about it, though.


Saw this at the store. Will keep this in mind though people seem to talk about the Kova+ a lot too as far as Roccat mice go.
Quote:


> The Logitech G400 is about the worst thing you could possibly get if you were going for fingertip grip.


Yeah I tried something new and was burned for it


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaloneyOs*
> 
> Looks neat, but it seems that like the Abyssus it only has preset DPI adjustments. This is also actually even thinner than what I expected so I do wonder if that could end up being a good or a bad thing.


Well, if there's anything that that mouse has taught me, it's that I have a weird grip. I like the feel of that mouse as a palm/hybrid palm grip type as well.

I'd like to note that I'm still not even sure that I can feel the reported weird slight lagginess. I only stopped using that mouse because I have a tendency to hit its max tracking speed sometimes.
Quote:


> Hmm yeah not sure about this one for quite a few reasons.


I've got one. It's a durable mouse and has served me well, but the buttons have too much travel and I can't palm grip it nicely.
Quote:


> Saw this at the store. Will keep this in mind though people seem to talk about the Kova+ a lot too as far as Roccat mice go.


IIRC, the Savu and the Kone pure optical are the only ones with the Avago 3090 sensor. I've not heard much against them, but I haven't had any experience with them.
Quote:


> Yeah I tried something new and was burned for it


Yeah, that's how I felt about the RAT 7 I bought. It broke so I was able to return it, though.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You could try the Zowie AM. IMO, that's the best shape I have ever seen if you want to fingertip. It does however have some weird nearly imperceptible laggyness and only 3 DPI steps. The clicks are really hard and have a fairly short travel. The mouse also malfunctions at about 2.7-3.3 meters per second.


I think the FK has improved on the shape of the AM
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Logitech G400 is about the worst thing you could possibly get if you were going for fingertip grip.


Agreed. That lip on the right side drives me nuts!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> I think the FK has improved on the shape of the AM


After using the WMO for some time, I've figured out that I really don't like the curved inward sides as much as I would have though. I have nowhere to put my ring finger.
Quote:


> Agreed. That lip on the right side drives me nuts!


It adds some grip when you're palming it, though. It's just not a good mouse for anything besides palm grip.


----------



## RentoN

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip Grip with a little bit of palming.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
800 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 2.0 in CS:GO for example.
So mid-low I guess

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Don't really have one. But the mouse shouldn't be unreasonably overpriced

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes. I need at least 2 extra buttons (thumb-buttons) on the left side. So 5 in total.

*5. What games do you play?*
FPS only. CS:GO, CS 1.6, Quake etc.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes. I want prediction/angle snapping OFF.
I'd also like to have as little acceleration of any kind as possible.
Low LoD would be nice too.

*7. Other relevant information:*
I have pretty small hands - 7" (18cm). So keep that in mind. A G400 for example is a little too big for me.
I want a mouse that can be lifted very easily. I have a DA 3.5G and don't like it because the sides are slippery and I have problems lifting the mouse up when my hands get sweaty.
A lip on the right side (like the G400 has it) would be a plus, as would be rubberized sides.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip Grip with a little bit of palming.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 800 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 2.0 in CS:GO for example.
> So mid-low I guess
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> Don't really have one. But the mouse shouldn't be unreasonably overpriced
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes. I need at least 2 extra buttons (thumb-buttons) on the left side. So 5 in total.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> FPS only. CS:GO, CS 1.6, Quake etc.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes. I want prediction/angle snapping OFF.
> I'd also like to have as little acceleration of any kind as possible.
> Low LoD would be nice too.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I have pretty small hands - 7" (18cm). So keep that in mind. A G400 for example is a little too big for me.
> I want a mouse that can be lifted very easily. I have a DA 3.5G and don't like it because the sides are slippery and I have problems lifting the mouse up when my hands get sweaty.
> A lip on the right side (like the G400 has it) would be a plus, as would be rubberized sides.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Wow, someone actually gave useful information on their sensitivity. That's a first.









You could try a Zowie FK. It seems to be pretty well optimized for small hands, and it's overall a pretty good mouse.

things to be aware of are that the buttons are fairly stiff, some people say the mouse feet are too thin, there is some near imperceptible lag at the 450 DPI setting, and the DPI steps are 450, 1150 and 2300 only. Other than those possible issues, it seems like a good mouse.

The LOD's low, the tracking is flawless (it spazzes out at above ~3 metres per second though), and the build quality is better than what I've seen from Logitech or Razer.


----------



## L4dd

For *RentoN*, would a Savu or Pure Kone Optical be good?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaloneyOs*
> 
> Yeah I tried something new and was burned for it


Yeah the Logitech mice are really only good for palm and palm/claw. Fantastic mice that rarely die, but if you can't get a comfortable grip on them its useless.
Take a look at the Cyborg MOUS 9. Its a little expensive, but would fit your hand perfectly. Also look at the Steelseries Sensi. I believe that one should work too as its a fairly short mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Yeah the Logitech mice are really only good for palm and palm/claw. Fantastic mice that rarely die


Unless you damage the cable, which is way too easy.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Unless you damage the cable, which is way too easy.


Ive never damaged the cable on any of my 4 Logitech mice. Ive actually been using and still use to this date a Logitech G5 that I bought when it was brand new. Not one single hiccup. I dont know how rough you are on the cord, but it must be far past too much.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Ive never damaged the cable on any of my 4 Logitech mice. Ive actually been using and still use to this date a Logitech G5 that I bought when it was brand new. Not one single hiccup. I dont know how rough you are on the cord, but it must be far past too much.


The newer mice have crappy cables. The G400's cable isn't very flexible and is really thin, unlike the cable on the MX518 and previous mice.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The newer mice have crappy cables. The G400's cable isn't very flexible and is really thin, unlike the cable on the MX518 and previous mice.


Hmm good to know, I will have to test this out myself. (I generally have good luck with Logitech Products so it will probably be the exact opposite of what you said)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Hmm good to know, I will have to test this out myself. (I generally have good luck with Logitech Products so it will probably be the exact opposite of what you said)


I don't abuse my G400, but I would not want to have the cable somewhere that would cause it to be bent or crushed a lot.


----------



## jayfkay

cable is safe no matter what if you fix it onto your table somewhat. I put my cable under the upper right edge of my keyboard with enough length to move the mouse freely. that way you reduce strain and the chances of the cable breaking in less than 2 years are nullified.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> cable is safe no matter what if you fix it onto your table somewhat. I put my cable under the upper right edge of my keyboard with enough length to move the mouse freely. that way you reduce strain and the chances of the cable breaking in less than 2 years are nullified.


Well, I wouldn't like to throw it into my backpack and carry it around, like I do with my MX518.

I'm just holding the cable in place under my surge protector.


----------



## typhon

Hello, another prospective buyer looking for a mouse. I would appreciate any input!
1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip when surfing etc. Fingertip grip when gaming and most of the time.

2. What's your sensitivity?
2000 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 2.0 in CS 1.6.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Not an issue.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 extra programmable buttons.

5. What games do you play?
FPS 95% of the time. CS 1.6, GO, COD, Battlefield any new FPS or 3rd person shooter. 5% RPG

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.

7. Other relevant information:
I have a RAT9 mouse which I have come to hate for the following reasons: ****ty tracking(especially if the surface isn't "perfect"), cursor goes crazy when lifting, mouse lift/movement when I rest my palm at the back of the mouse, didn't like the shape after all(too flat), too heavy. I did like the sniping button but because of positioning barely used it. I had a Logitech MX Revolution before the RAT and I realized that I liked the shape of the logitech way more than that of the RAT. So I need a mouse that has excellent and accurate tracking and is really ergonomic (I also work with my PC and need it to be comfortable). I would prefer to buy a wireless mouse but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## 50shadesofray

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip/claw. I do have fairly large hands (8 1/2in from bottom to top ) so my pinky drags along my mouse mat which is extremely annoying.

2. What's your sensitivity?
600 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 1200 dpi when gaming

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
don't care for butttons

5. What games do you play?
FPS most of the time.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently have the m65 and it is too small for my hand. My pinky tends to drag along the mouse mat. Also the sniper button was an awful idea, sounded better at the time, all it does is get in the way.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *typhon*
> 
> Hello, another prospective buyer looking for a mouse. I would appreciate any input!
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip when surfing etc. Fingertip grip when gaming and most of the time.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 2000 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 2.0 in CS 1.6.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Not an issue.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 extra programmable buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS 95% of the time. CS 1.6, GO, COD, Battlefield any new FPS or 3rd person shooter. 5% RPG
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have a RAT9 mouse which I have come to hate for the following reasons: ****ty tracking(especially if the surface isn't "perfect"), cursor goes crazy when lifting, mouse lift/movement when I rest my palm at the back of the mouse, didn't like the shape after all(too flat), too heavy. I did like the sniping button but because of positioning barely used it. I had a Logitech MX Revolution before the RAT and I realized that I liked the shape of the logitech way more than that of the RAT. So I need a mouse that has excellent and accurate tracking and is really ergonomic (I also work with my PC and need it to be comfortable). I would prefer to buy a wireless mouse but I am open to suggestions.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


IMO, it's probably easier to play FPS if you're doing a palm or claw grip, but for a fingertip grip, I'd suggest a Zowie AM/FK, CM storm spawn or a Roccat Savu.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *50shadesofray*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip/claw. I do have fairly large hands (8 1/2in from bottom to top ) so my pinky drags along my mouse mat which is extremely annoying.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 600 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration OFF, 1200 dpi when gaming
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> don't care for butttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS most of the time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I currently have the m65 and it is too small for my hand. My pinky tends to drag along the mouse mat. Also the sniper button was an awful idea, sounded better at the time, all it does is get in the way.


I'd recommend a G400 or Deathadder.


----------



## calvinbui

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip/Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

3500 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

anything, no budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?

back and forward

5. What games do you play?

everything except rts

6. Do you mind about prediction?

sometimes

7. Other relevant information:

non glossy if possible, the build up i've had on the deathadder was disgusting


----------



## 50shadesofray

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip/claw. I do have fairly large hands (8 1/2in from bottom to top ) so my pinky drags along my mouse mat which is extremely annoying.

2. What's your sensitivity?
6200 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration Off, 1200 dpi when gaming

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
don't care for butttons

5. What games do you play?
FPS most of the time.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently have the m65 and it is too small for my hand. My pinky tends to drag along the mouse mat. Also the sniper button was an awful idea, sounded better at the time, all it does is get in the way.
(had to repost since i put in the wrong browsin dpi


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *50shadesofray*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip/claw. I do have fairly large hands (8 1/2in from bottom to top ) so my pinky drags along my mouse mat which is extremely annoying.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 6200 DPI, 6/11 in Windows, Acceleration Off, 1200 dpi when gaming
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> don't care for butttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS most of the time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. I need the most accurate movement. No prediction, acceleration or anything similar.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I currently have the m65 and it is too small for my hand. My pinky tends to drag along the mouse mat. Also the sniper button was an awful idea, sounded better at the time, all it does is get in the way.
> (had to repost since i put in the wrong browsin dpi


For your non-gaming 6,200 C.P.I., the DeathAdder 2013 should be the best mouse, and for your gaming 1,200 C.P.I., the Kone Pure Optical and Kana V2 might be good too, but the DeathAdder is a bigger mouse, so you might prefer that.


----------



## Rashool

Hiya Guys! I'd appreciate if I could get some suggestions for my next mouse. Thanks.

1. What's your grip style?
Mostly palm or a hybrid between palm and fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Erm, I'm kinda new to all these settings, but I'd say I'm a high-sens player. 1600DPI, with windows acc. turned off.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around 30$, with small flexibility.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessarily, I'm happy with the 2 side buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Mainly FPS games, like BF3 and some TPS games as well.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Possibly, I would like to all kind of suggestions though.

7. Other relevant information:
I'd prefer a mid-large sized ergonomic mouse. Also it would be a plus if clicking the mouse buttons wouldn't be too loud. To be honest I was eyeing the A4Tech Bloody Gaming series V3 mouse, so I'd love to hear some info on that too from somebody who used it.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rashool*
> 
> Hiya Guys! I'd appreciate if I could get some suggestions for my next mouse. Thanks.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Mostly palm or a hybrid between palm and fingertip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Erm, I'm kinda new to all these settings, but I'd say I'm a high-sens player. 1600DPI, with windows acc. turned off.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Around 30$, with small flexibility.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not necessarily, I'm happy with the 2 side buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mainly FPS games, like BF3 and some TPS games as well.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Possibly, I would like to all kind of suggestions though.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'd prefer a mid-large sized ergonomic mouse. Also it would be a plus if clicking the mouse buttons wouldn't be too loud. To be honest I was eyeing the A4Tech Bloody Gaming series V3 mouse, so I'd love to hear some info on that too from somebody who used it.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The Logitech G400 is pretty good for a palm grip mouse.


----------



## Rashool

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Logitech G400 is pretty good for a palm grip mouse.


I heard Logitech mice are pretty good, but the only problem is that it is way over my budget at the moment. The price is more than double that I can afford.


----------



## jayfkay

g400 used to sell for 30-35€
get it on ebay then


----------



## Rashool

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> g400 used to sell for 30-35€
> get it on ebay then


Yea I thought about that too, but ordering on ebay is not really an option for me. Also 30 Euros and 30$ is quite a difference for me when I convert my currency into those. Thanks for the suggestion though


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rashool*
> 
> Yea I thought about that too, but ordering on ebay is not really an option for me. Also 30 Euros and 30$ is quite a difference for me when I convert my currency into those. Thanks for the suggestion though


Take a look at the Logitech G100. Should be within your budget and is a great palm/fingertip grip mouse.








Also you are not a high sensitivity gamer. I usually play games @ about 3800-4600 DPI. 5200 a couple times in battlefield when im bored (somehow I tend to do better)








*EDIT*
Also why is Ebay not an option for you?


----------



## Rashool

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Logitech G100. Should be within your budget and is a great palm/fingertip grip mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also you are not a high sensitivity gamer. I usually play games @ about 3800-4600 DPI. 5200 a couple times in battlefield when im bored (somehow I tend to do better)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT*
> Also why is Ebay not an option for you?


Hiya,
Thanks a lot for the suggestion! I live in Eastern Europe and there are some restrictions on ebay here, so that's why. Also I checked around and I just cant find G100 anywhere in the stores here









I said I'm a high-sens player as I even ramp up the mouse sensitivity in-game, so I only need to move my mouse a couple centimeters to do a 180.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rashool*
> 
> I heard Logitech mice are pretty good, but the only problem is that it is way over my budget at the moment. The price is more than double that I can afford.


That's unfortunate; they cost like $40 in Canada.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rashool*
> 
> Hiya,
> Thanks a lot for the suggestion! I live in Eastern Europe and there are some restrictions on ebay here, so that's why. Also I checked around and I just cant find G100 anywhere in the stores here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said I'm a high-sens player as I even ramp up the mouse sensitivity in-game, so I only need to move my mouse a couple centimeters to do a 180.


I don't know how people play FPS games like this. I used to play with like 2 inches for a 360 and I could barely do anything in Counter Strike.

If I were you, I'd just get a wheel mouse optical and lower my in game sensitivity a bit. The WMO is the best unbelievably cheap mouse, although I don't know if 400 DPI and 1.8 m/s max speed is really enough for modern game resolutions.

Go for a Deathadder or a G400 if you can get the money for one or find a used one/older version.


----------



## NLight95

1. What's your grip style?
Palm exclusively, right-handed

2. What's your sensitivity?
Depends on game/desktop use but typically anywhere from 1000-4000 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
Up to $85 but perhaps would go to $100 for something "exceptional"

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Back & forward, middle mouse, up/down dpi -> around 8 buttons is fine

5. What games do you play?
FPS and single player RPG (TES series)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would like the option to disable it or at least adjust it

7. Other relevant information:
My most important concern is whether the mouse is **comfortable** for my 7" hands, not whether it has the latest/greatest laser or optics. I find mice with a tall height are painful for me to use in long sessions. As a point of reference, I can place my thumb squarely on "back" button on of either the M65 or G5 (my current mouse) but can't reach the forward or sniper button unless physically changing my hand position where it's uncomfortable. At least with the G5 I can use my index finger to reach "down" and press the forward button.

My G5 has the connect/re-connect issue and also accelerates at random in Firefox, Steam and at other times spontaneously. So if the current Logitech Gaming/Setpoint software still has this issue then I want to stay away from Logitech. _. I tried the M65--great build quality but don't for Corsair's software as it's very cumbersome and poorly designed imho (what, no Apply button??!!).

I prefer a glossy finish like the Corsair M65 as my old MX500 & G5 coatings rubbed off leaving a tacky surface, but this is simply a preference and not a deal breaker for me. For lighting I prefer blue LEDs.

Finally, for desktop use I typically like to set up a profile to use the dpi buttons as scroll up/down. I really like Logitech's implemetation of this feature where the scrolling is continuous (by holding down the button) rather than toggled as with the M65.

These are my current considerations.

Logitech G500
Razer DeathAdder or DA 2013
Steelseries Ikari
CM Storm Recon/Sentinel/Xornet

Thanks for all your feedback!!







_


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NLight95*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm exclusively, right-handed
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Depends on game/desktop use but typically anywhere from 1000-4000 dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Up to $85 but perhaps would go to $100 for something "exceptional"
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Back & forward, middle mouse, up/down dpi -> around 8 buttons is fine
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS and single player RPG (TES series)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Would like the option to disable it or at least adjust it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My most important concern is whether the mouse is **comfortable** for my 7" hands, not whether it has the latest/greatest laser or optics. I find mice with a tall height are painful for me to use in long sessions. As a point of reference, I can place my thumb squarely on "back" button on of either the M65 or G5 (my current mouse) but can't reach the forward or sniper button unless physically changing my hand position where it's uncomfortable. At least with the G5 I can use my index finger to reach "down" and press the forward button.
> 
> My G5 has the connect/re-connect issue and also accelerates at random in Firefox, Steam and at other times spontaneously. So if the current Logitech Gaming/Setpoint software still has this issue then I want to stay away from Logitech. _. I tried the M65--great build quality but don't for Corsair's software as it's very cumbersome and poorly designed imho (what, no Apply button??!!).
> 
> I prefer a glossy finish like the Corsair M65 as my old MX500 & G5 coatings rubbed off leaving a tacky surface, but this is simply a preference and not a deal breaker for me. For lighting I prefer blue LEDs.
> 
> Finally, for desktop use I typically like to set up a profile to use the dpi buttons as scroll up/down. I really like Logitech's implemetation of this feature where the scrolling is continuous (by holding down the button) rather than toggled as with the M65.
> 
> These are my current considerations.
> 
> Logitech G500
> Razer DeathAdder or DA 2013
> Steelseries Ikari
> CM Storm Recon/Sentinel/Xornet
> 
> Thanks for all your feedback!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Wait for the Logitech G602 to come out, seems right up your ally. Either that or the G700 when its on sale.









*EDIT*
Also Logitech's G software has gotten a massive improvement as of recent. Ive never had a single problem with it and my G700 over a 2 month period.


----------



## L4dd

*NLight95*, I would get the Recon after the DeathAdder 2013; you might not mind the algorithm of the DeathAdder 2013 if you use 4,000 C.P.I.


----------



## DuckySchmucky

what is the cheapest you could go with a mouse and still have it decent.?


----------



## Formel

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
500 dpi
3. What's your maximum budget?
100$
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, side buttons
5. What games do you play?
BF3, Single player shooters and hope to start playing starcraft and LoL
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't like prediction.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Low LOD, light, wired and small to medium size compared to average adult male hand. The deathadder fits like a glove in my hands but I prefer something smaller.


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formel*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 500 dpi
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, side buttons
> 5. What games do you play?
> BF3, Single player shooters and hope to start playing starcraft and LoL
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't like prediction.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Low LOD, light, wired and small to medium size compared to average adult male hand. The deathadder fits like a glove in my hands but I prefer something smaller.


For a smaller, lighter Deathadder with lower LOD and side buttons, try the Zowie EC2 Evo.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckySchmucky*
> 
> what is the cheapest you could go with a mouse and still have it decent.?


That depends how little you can find a G400 for


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> For a smaller, lighter Deathadder with lower LOD and side buttons, try the Zowie EC2 Evo.


Be aware that that mouse can only do 450, 1150 and 2300 DPI steps. There's also a max tracking speed of about 3 metres per second, above which, the cursor will fly around the screen.

Also the clicks on that mouse are a lot harder than on the deathadder.


----------



## Formel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Be aware that that mouse can only do 450, 1150 and 2300 DPI steps. There's also a max tracking speed of about 3 metres per second, above which, the cursor will fly around the screen.
> 
> Also the clicks on that mouse are a lot harder than on the deathadder.


Interesting, where can I find more information like tracking speed or something else?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formel*
> 
> Interesting, where can I find more information like tracking speed or something else?


Esreality does some tests. Other than that, all I know to look at is people who are willing to post the results of Enotus mouse test. I got that value based on running Enotus; it seems fairly accurate.


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Formel*
> 
> Interesting, where can I find more information like tracking speed or something else?


Some people out there might have posted screenshots from a program called Enotus Mouse Test that look like the following screenshot,



but I don't find those helpful. A better way (imo) to test control speed is to get the mouse yourself, get in-game, lower your sensitivity to at least 100cm/360, make a bullet mark on a wall, move your mouse horizontally to the left or right across your mousepad, then swipe your mouse back to where it was at various speeds ranging from typical in game quick swipes to your fastest possible swipes, check how close you are to the bullet mark you made each time, and repeat.*

There are only two good results, the rest are bad. I'll describe both the good ones and one bad one.

Negative Accel (BAD): the cursor slows down and stops short of the bullet mark without shooting off in another direction unless it malfunctions





Low Malfunction Speed, but no accel (GOOD): the cursor malfunctions before hitting any accel curve. The way you determine if you can use a mouse like this is if you don't hit the malfunction speed while actually playing and not testing.





High Malfunction Speed (VERY GOOD): cursor nearly always returns to the bullet mark.





*So buy your mouse from a store with a good return policy (e.g. Fry's Electronics or Amazon.com).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Be aware that that mouse can only do 450, 1150 and 2300 DPI steps. There's also a max tracking speed of about 3 metres per second, above which, the cursor will fly around the screen.
> 
> Also the clicks on that mouse are a lot harder than on the deathadder.


Actually only the perfect control speed seems to be around 3.3 m/s, malfunction is much higher. Well, at least for me the cursor on the AM and FK never flew around the screen which it would for the Savu, Deathadder etc.


----------



## fabiovtec

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip Grip

2. What's your sensitivity? 800 - 1200 dpi 6/11

3. What's your maximum budget? 50$

4. Do you want additional buttons? Two on the side

5. What games do you play? FPS "counter strike, battlefield"

6. Do you mind about prediction? No


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Actually only the perfect control speed seems to be around 3.3 m/s, malfunction is much higher. Well, at least for me the cursor on the AM and FK never flew around the screen which it would for the Savu, Deathadder etc.


Really? I have never been able to make my Deathadder, G400 or MX518 jump, but I can make the Zowie AM do it pretty easily. Sometimes when I was doing AWP flick shots, I would have my cursor fly around a bit.

On Enotus, I managed to get approximately 2.7-3.1 metres per second max tracking speed, but I've never thought about how much faster the speed at which it jumped was.


----------



## Ino.

W
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Really? I have never been able to make my Deathadder, G400 or MX518 jump, but I can make the Zowie AM do it pretty easily. Sometimes when I was doing AWP flick shots, I would have my cursor fly around a bit.
> 
> On Enotus, I managed to get approximately 2.7-3.1 metres per second max tracking speed, but I've never thought about how much faster the speed at which it jumped was.


Well, I mainly the Savu didn't have a high malfunction speed, especially on the talent. When going too fast I would sometimes end up looking at the floor. I could reproduce that in paint too. With the Zowies it stayed a straight line. My guess is that the top speed gets capped at some point (just a guess though...)

My FK also has a real PCS of 3.5 m/s on the Qck Heavy, so maybe it's faster in general than your AM (tolerances and stuff might affect that)


----------



## kkorky

Mod plse remove-thnx

Posted in a better and more productive place


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> W
> Well, I mainly the Savu didn't have a high malfunction speed, especially on the talent. When going too fast I would sometimes end up looking at the floor. I could reproduce that in paint too. With the Zowies it stayed a straight line. My guess is that the top speed gets capped at some point (just a guess though...)
> 
> My FK also has a real PCS of 3.5 m/s on the Qck Heavy, so maybe it's faster in general than your AM (tolerances and stuff might affect that)


It seems to just stop when you swipe it too fast. It's nowhere near as good at high speeds as my g400 and deathadder.


----------



## NLight95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Wait for the Logitech G602 to come out, seems right up your ally. Either that or the G700 when its on sale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT*
> Also Logitech's G software has gotten a massive improvement as of recent. Ive never had a single problem with it and my G700 over a 2 month period.


Thanks for the feedback. The G602 is wireles and though I prefer wired mice it looks like Logitech implemented it well in this case, so I'll have to keep my eye on it. It's good to hear that their Gaming software doesn't have the issues the older Setpoint drives have as several of those issues are still unresolved (random acceleration, for example).


----------



## NLight95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> *NLight95*, I would get the Recon after the DeathAdder 2013; you might not mind the algorithm of the DeathAdder 2013 if you use 4,000 C.P.I.


Does the Razer software support scrolling where you hold down either the up/down dpi button (re-assigned from the default actions) to continuous scroll up/down a document or web page? It's one feature Setpoint has that I've always appreciated. Instead of using the scroll wheel all I have to do is hold down the up/down dpi button and it keeps on scrolling. I know Corsair's software doesn't support this because you have to click the up or down button repeatedly to scroll so many lines at a time.


----------



## Mackem

1. What's your grip style? - *Kind of a palm / claw hybrid; My palm touches the mouse but I use my thumb and fingers in a sort of claw position to move the mouse / click*

2. What's your sensitivity? - *I play at around 1200DPI*

3. What's your maximum budget? - *Depends on the quality of the mouse, but under £50 GBP if possible*

4. Do you want additional buttons? - *One or two side buttons would be great*

5. What games do you play? - *StarCraft II, FPS games*

6. Do you mind about prediction? - *Rather not have any sort of prediction / acceleration*

7. Other relevant information:

*Would like a mouse with a nice design for right hand, feels good in the hand, something that isn't as heavy as the Deathadder 2013, nice tactile buttons*


----------



## L4dd

For 1,200 C.P.I. and F.P.S., the DeathAdder 2013, Kone Pure Optical, and Kana V2 might be your best mice, but your specific grip style might determine which mouse would be yours.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> For 1,200 C.P.I. and F.P.S., the DeathAdder 2013, Kone Pure Optical, and Kana V2 might be your best mice, but your specific grip style might determine which mouse would be yours.


From what I've heard, the deathadder 3.5G is better than the 4G, if you don't use a massive DPI setting.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> From what I've heard, the deathadder 3.5G is better than the 4G, if you don't use a massive DPI setting.


For 1,800 C.P.I., the DeathAdder 3, 3.5, or B.E. might be good, but 1,200 C.P.I. would require in-game sensitivity reduction for best tracking?


----------



## Rumble111

1. What's your grip style? Claw/fingertip? I'm not sure - definitely not palm.
- I grip mostly with thumb and the base and tip of my pinky - so the pinky part of my palm does touch.
- I rest my middle finger on the RMB, on the DA that means both that and the next finger over both rest on RMB, on the G400 my other finger can help grip the side.

2. What's your sensitivity? 1200 right now on the Deathadder.

3. What's your maximum budget? any

4. Do you want additional buttons? at least 1 thumb button

5. What games do you play? Moba, FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction? prefer not but minor is ok.

7. Other relevant information:

Okay so I've made many mistakes so far that have been unavoidable as I had to try them, please read my pros and cons below.

SS Kana
Pros
- good feet/slides, braided cord is nice
Cons
- too low to the table,
- thumb button is terrible,
- stiff buttons
- shape cramps my hand, or maybe it's how low it is.

G400s
Pros
- good tracking
Cons
- rubbish cord hits thing on my desk (hate that),
-buttons don't go to edge of mouse which is a minor nigggle

Roccat kone pure laser
Pros
- shape wasn't bad
Cons
- bought laser version accidently,
- LOD is a major pain and dont want to tape it really,

Razer Deatheadder 2013
Pros
- Glides so well on my SS Qck,
Cons
- right mourse button doesn't suit my grip,
- the 2 'grip' rubber pads on either side are terrible - make it feel like i'm sweating,
- this mouse feels much better palmed, but i don't hold it that way - the shape just isn't right.

Right now I'm thinking I'm down to ordering an EC1 or 2 unless someone has a similar experience to mine?


----------



## Zerotre

1. What's your grip style?
*palm but i use only fingertips*

2. What's your sensitivity?
*high sensitivity*

3. What's your maximum budget?
*any*

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*one or two or more if possible*

5. What games do you play?
*FPS*

6. Do you mind about prediction?
*i would like lower pred*

7. Other relevant information:

actually i own a logitech g700, it is quite good, but i would like to know if there is a better mouse for fps gaming

thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> For 1,800 C.P.I., the DeathAdder 3, 3.5, or B.E. might be good, but 1,200 C.P.I. would require in-game sensitivity reduction for best tracking?


There's nothing wrong with in game sensitivity reduction. All that matters about DPI is that it is high enough to not cause pixel skipping.

Plus, the DA 4G has a weird smoothing feeling to the tracking that's been reported.


----------



## Skylit

DPI count has nothing to do with pixel skipping or rather angles.

Any skipping is 100% related to game and settings.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerotre*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> *palm but i use only fingertips*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> *high sensitivity*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> *any*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *one or two or more if possible*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> *FPS*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *i would like lower pred*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> actually i own a logitech g700, it is quite good, but i would like to know if there is a better mouse for fps gaming
> 
> thanks


Yes and no.
The Cyborg Rat 7 is better IMO except for one thing. Reliability. Ive owned my MMO7 for 6 months and its died once and Im thinking about sending it in again. Other then that its my favorite mouse Ive ever used. My G700 though is my backup due to the fact that its very good and reliable.

IMO, your not gunna get a much better mouse then the G700.


----------



## cr4p

Hi guys! Is it ok to put a Scotch tape as a mouse feet against a hard pad?


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr4p*
> 
> Hi guys! Is it ok to put a Scotch tape as a mouse feet against a hard pad?


Sure, although for not very much money you can get a small roll of teflon tape like this one: http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-PTFE-Mouse-Color/dp/B003DZ16X4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381175611&sr=8-1&keywords=teflon+tape+mouse

It can be a little bit inconvenient to lay multiple strips across some of the wider mouse feet, but it works great for the little Microsoft mouse skates and probably would do well on e.g. the Deathadder's too.

Teflon tape has become a standard addition for me when using any hard pad; I love the stuff.


----------



## Zerotre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Yes and no.
> The Cyborg Rat 7 is better IMO except for one thing. Reliability. Ive owned my MMO7 for 6 months and its died once and Im thinking about sending it in again. Other then that its my favorite mouse Ive ever used. My G700 though is my backup due to the fact that its very good and reliable.
> 
> IMO, your not gunna get a much better mouse then the G700.


thanks a lot for the answer,
exactly i also think that the g700 is the best mouse for general purpose, is that now i have a chance to sell it so i could take another mouse more game oriented, if it is worth it
i was looking at the razer deathadder that doesn't have the prediction problem... but i don't want to take a worse item


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerotre*
> 
> thanks a lot for the answer,
> exactly i also think that the g700 is the best mouse for general purpose, is that now i have a chance to sell it so i could take another mouse more game oriented, if it is worth it
> i was looking at the razer deathadder that doesn't have the prediction problem... but i don't want to take a worse item


Ive had the deathadder and IMO it sucked compared to my G700.
Let the Logihaters come and tell me all the reasons they *think* im wrong. Ive owned both, G700 was just a better mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> DPI count has nothing to do with pixel skipping or rather angles.
> 
> Any skipping is 100% related to game and settings.


Well, if your in game settings are too sensitive for your DPI setting, won't it start skipping pixels?


----------



## cr4p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Sure, although for not very much money you can get a small roll of teflon tape like this one: http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-PTFE-Mouse-Color/dp/B003DZ16X4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381175611&sr=8-1&keywords=teflon+tape+mouse
> 
> It can be a little bit inconvenient to lay multiple strips across some of the wider mouse feet, but it works great for the little Microsoft mouse skates and probably would do well on e.g. the Deathadder's too.
> 
> Teflon tape has become a standard addition for me when using any hard pad; I love the stuff.


oh.. okay gotta search for that teflon tape roll.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Ive had the deathadder and IMO it sucked compared to my G700.
> Let the Logihaters come and tell me all the reasons they *think* im wrong. Ive owned both, G700 was just a better mouse.


You maybe like the shape more of G700. But Deathadder is much better performance wise.


----------



## Zerotre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> You maybe like the shape more of G700. But Deathadder is much better performance wise.


mmm
i really don't wont to foment a religion war... i understand that my question is complex, i'm quite sure that the g700 is the best 360° mouse, but i would like to know if there is a better _gaming_ mouse


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerotre*
> 
> mmm
> i really don't wont to foment a religion war... i understand that my question is complex, i'm quite sure that the g700 is the best 360° mouse, but i would like to know if there is a better _gaming_ mouse


How could a wireless laser mouse be better than Deathadder for gaming? If you don't play serious at all maybe you don't mind but personally I wouldn't even use a wireless for games like LoL.


----------



## Zerotre

in fact i never used the wireless mode, always cable connected


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerotre*
> 
> mmm
> i really don't wont to foment a religion war... i understand that my question is complex, i'm quite sure that the g700 is the best 360° mouse, but i would like to know if there is a better _gaming_ mouse


If you're playing FPS, then the Deathadder, Logitech G400, Zowie AM/FK, and the Roccat Savu are all much better.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr4p*
> 
> oh.. okay gotta search for that teflon tape roll.


Just make sure if you do this that you get regular tape with teflon surface and not the teflon tape impregnated with fiberglass, etc.

One goes on mice, cabinet drawers etc.... the other is for heat-sealing plumbing apparently.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, if your in game settings are too sensitive for your DPI setting, won't it start skipping pixels?


Sort of. There's a good explanation here: http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/?page_id=1139


----------



## cr4p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Just make sure if you do this that you get regular tape with teflon surface and not the teflon tape impregnated with fiberglass, etc.
> 
> One goes on mice, cabinet drawers etc.... the other is for heat-sealing plumbing apparently.


Oh crap. I bought some from a hardware store.







I thought they are just the same.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr4p*
> 
> Oh crap. I bought some from a hardware store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they are just the same.


It MIGHT work but I haven't tried it so I wouldn't put any confidence in that kind.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> How could a wireless laser mouse be better than Deathadder for gaming? If you don't play serious at all maybe you don't mind but personally I wouldn't even use a wireless for games like LoL.


Because skilled players dont have a problem with extremely minor lag. Personally I dont even notice a difference between my G700 and my Cyborg MMO 7 and my Logitech G500. All feels the same to me (in that respect).
Whats better for gaming is subject to the user. It doesnt matter about performance or polling rate or anything like that. If you are used to a certain mouse, you will be better with it then almost anything else.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Because skilled players dont have a problem with extremely minor lag. Personally I dont even notice a difference between my G700 and my Cyborg MMO 7 and my Logitech G500. All feels the same to me (in that respect).
> Whats better for gaming is subject to the user. It doesnt matter about performance or polling rate or anything like that. If you are used to a certain mouse, you will be better with it then almost anything else.


Not going to disagree that you should just play with what you like and feel comfortable with, but those mice you listed all share the same "flaw" when compared to the Deathadder. So theoretically the DA is superior in terms of raw sensor performance.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Not going to disagree that you should just play with what you like and feel comfortable with, but those mice you listed all share the same "flaw" when compared to the Deathadder. So theoretically the DA is superior in terms of raw sensor performance.


And that flaw is? (apart from the MMO 7, that sensor keeps crapping out on me)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> And that flaw is? (apart from the MMO 7, that sensor keeps crapping out on me)


Well, the G700 and G500 have the nonlinear acceleration issue.

The MMO-7 and all the RAT mice have the Z-axis bug as well as just general bad reliability. It's a different sensor than the G700 and G500, though.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, the G700 and G500 have the *nonlinear acceleration issue*.
> 
> The MMO-7 and all the RAT mice have the Z-axis bug as well as just general bad reliability. It's a different sensor than the G700 and G500, though.


Ive never heard of that, what does it mean?


----------



## cuad

It means that your mouse's DPI changes by +/- 5% depending on how fast you move it. Like, if your mouse is set to 800 DPI, it's not actually always at 800 DPI, but at different values between 760 and 840 DPI depending on how fast you move it.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> It means that your mouse's DPI changes by +/- 5% depending on how fast you move it. Like, if your mouse is set to 800 DPI, it's not actually always at 800 DPI, but at different values between 760 and 840 DPI depending on how fast you move it.


Oh that what that is. I love that feature.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Ive never heard of that, what does it mean?


you get up to 5% positive or negative acceleration in a wavy curve. I think esreality has graphs of the weird acceleration curves.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, the G700 and G500 have the nonlinear acceleration issue.
> 
> The MMO-7 and all the RAT mice have the Z-axis bug as well as just general bad reliability. It's a different sensor than the G700 and G500, though.


Whoops my bad, I thought that MMO was with the A9500/A9800 too.

@ADHDadditiv: it's not a feature, just something they couldn't get rid of apparently. The main problem here is that it's random meaning inconsistency. As I said it's not a problem for everyone.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Whoops my bad, I thought that MMO was with the A9500/A9800 too.


Yeah, the MMO has a PTE sensor in it, but you're still better off not recommending it regardless, considering how many people have reported unreliability.


----------



## USBPS2

I need a new mouse. For Starcraft Broodwar and general use. Want to get a 800 - 1000 DPI sensor. Most important features are a very light / soft clicking action and no sensor drama (acceleration). A basic light nonergonomic mouse will be fine if it has the above two characteristics.

Tried the Logitech RX250 - had crazy acceleration but perfect in any other way (very nice clicking action). Tried the Razer Abyssus - buttons are way to hard to "click".

Does all the cheap logitech mice like the b100 and m90 have hardware acceleration? What about MS mice?

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

800 - 1000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

-

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Two buttons and a wheel is fine.

5. What games do you play?

Starcraft broodwar and some oldies.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Don`t want it.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Thanks!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *USBPS2*
> 
> I need a new mouse. For Starcraft Broodwar and general use. Want to get a 800 - 1000 DPI sensor. Most important features are a very light / soft clicking action and no sensor drama (acceleration). A basic light nonergonomic mouse will be fine if it has the above two characteristics.
> 
> Tried the Logitech RX250 - had crazy acceleration but perfect in any other way (very nice clicking action). Tried the Razer Abyssus - buttons are way to hard to "click".
> 
> Does all the cheap logitech mice like the b100 and m90 have hardware acceleration? What about MS mice?
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800 - 1000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> -
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Two buttons and a wheel is fine.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Starcraft broodwar and some oldies.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Don`t want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Thanks!


G100s should be what you're looking for. Same shape as Rx250 but no accel and no prediction. I use it at my office.


----------



## philologos

*1. What's your grip style?*

Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

400-800dpi
*
3. What's your maximum budget?*

$70

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Not really. Want good mouse wheel & middle mouse button; few side buttons okay, nothing more

*5. What games do you play?*

First Person RPGs and Shooters (Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Far Cry, Mass Effect, etc.)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Looking at optical sensors without prediction, jitter, acceleration

*7. Other relevant information:*

Prefer relatively low LOD
Driverless or no-fuss drivers


----------



## USBPS2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> G100s should be what you're looking for. Same shape as Rx250 but no accel and no prediction. I use it at my office.


The G100s seems nice, just about what I was looking for. Only thing holding back an order right now is some complaints about the clicking action. On Amazon, several reviewers complaints about the click feeling "less crispy" and "Clicking doesn't feel as good as other mice. A bit stiff and mushy."

But the "click" on the Rx250 is definetely a lot better than both my current old Microsoft mouse, and the Abyssus.

By the way how does it compare to the G100? And can someone confirm that all the basic Logitech mice like the B100 and m90 all have hardware acceleration? Because these mice have the "click" I´m looking for







.

Edit: By the way, can I trust that the G100s listings on ebay are genuine Logitech mice?


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philologos*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 400-800dpi
> *
> 3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $70
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Not really. Want good mouse wheel & middle mouse button; few side buttons okay, nothing more
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> First Person RPGs and Shooters (Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Far Cry, Mass Effect, etc.)
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Looking at optical sensors without prediction, jitter, acceleration
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> Prefer relatively low LOD
> Driverless or no-fuss drivers


I would suggest looking at the Steelseries Kana V2 or Zowie AM/FK.


----------



## philologos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> I would suggest looking at the Steelseries Kana V2 or Zowie AM/FK.


I decided on Zowie FK. Thanks!


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philologos*
> 
> I decided on Zowie FK. Thanks!


Great choice. The switches will take a couple of days to get used to. Best mouse I've personally used since the Microsoft 1.1


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Great choice. The switches will take a couple of days to get used to. Best mouse I've personally used since the Microsoft 1.1


I prefer Huanos now. It's bad. This is probably how Zowie makes fanboys...


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> I prefer Huanos now. It's bad. This is probably how Zowie makes fanboys...


They are lovely indeed.


----------



## Atavax

Is there any advantages of the other zowie mice over the ec evo other than different ergonomics?


----------



## Imprecision

Not really. I guess the squeaky scroll wheel problem the ECs (sometimes?) have doesn't happen on the AM or FK molds but the ergonomics are the most important difference.

Oh, Art Vanelay reminds me: Click pressure is a bit different on the different models even with the same switch, because the mold design affects that. People say AM has harder presses than EC and FK (no personal experience).

I've heard the CPI settings are also slightly different between the shapes even though the reported CPI are the same because of sensor/lens positioning. Shouldn't be a big difference.

Just small things...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Is there any advantages of the other zowie mice over the ec evo other than different ergonomics?


Harder clicks (I like this personally, but a lot of people hate them)
low LOD (this also causes the sensor to malfunction if you move the mouse somewhere in the area of 3 metres per second)
no drivers
build quality seems better than current Logitech and Razer, from what I've seen
light weight


----------



## MLJS54

I don't find the clicks on the FK to require a ton of force as some others have stated. Compared to say the Xai, they are only slightly "tougher." What I do love about them is the control for burst shots (e.g. AK in CS) or for holding shots (e.g. using a bow in Darkfall). If I want a spam mouse I'd just use the 1.1... which is legendary for spamming.

I can see how the FK could be considered a workout if you're one of those 90lbs SC2 frame type of guys but in all honesty the QQ is a bit over-exaggerated


----------



## ContemporaryCav

1. What's your grip style?

Combination between Fingertip and Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

1500+ DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

-

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At least two side buttons will be great.

5. What games do you play?

Dota 2, Starcraft II, Hearthstone (soon to play)

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Minimal or no prediction if possible.

7. Other relevant information:

I've asked some people and they overly-recommended me a mouse called "Cm Storm Xornet". Well, I just want to know if it's a good decision, or I could get something better.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Is there any advantages of the other zowie mice over the ec evo other than different ergonomics?


On top of what the others said: Most people like the coating on the FK much better than tbe ECs.
Coollers version of the EC2 has the same coating as the FK for that reason.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> On top of what the others said: Most people like the coating on the FK much better than tbe ECs.
> Coollers version of the EC2 has the same coating as the FK for that reason.


oh, interesting. was having a hard time deciding between the version because i've never tried either mouse scroll. was probably leaning towards the original version because frankly, i find the paint job less attractive with Cooller's version. but maybe i'll have to get his version if most people prefer the grip. Hmm, not seeing anywhere to buy it online. Yep, looked at all the retailers in the US Zowie has on their site, none have the CL version.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> oh, interesting. was having a hard time deciding between the version because i've never tried either mouse scroll. was probably leaning towards the original version because frankly, i find the paint job less attractive with Cooller's version. but maybe i'll have to get his version if most people prefer the grip. Hmm, not seeing anywhere to buy it online. Yep, looked at all the retailers in the US Zowie has on their site, none have the CL version.


Patience..


----------



## Dethredic

I'm looking for a mouse to replace my logitech G5 v2 as the scroll wheel is starting to fail.

Requirements:
- 2 "thumb buttons"
- scroll wheel can be clicked left and right (act as 2 more buttons) like my G5.
- not too different from my G5 v2

I was thinking wireless but my initial search turned up nothing that seemed good.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Patience..


*throws plate of spaghetti on the floor*

but i want it now!


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dethredic*
> 
> I'm looking for a mouse to replace my logitech G5 v2 as the scroll wheel is starting to fail.
> 
> Requirements:
> - 2 "thumb buttons"
> - scroll wheel can be clicked left and right (act as 2 more buttons) like my G5.
> - not too different from my G5 v2
> 
> I was thinking wireless but my initial search turned up nothing that seemed good.


Logitech G602 or G700.
Your welcome.


----------



## fuddy12345

1. What's your grip style? Claw/Finger Tip (not super important)

2. What's your sensitivity? 1400-1800 when gaming, <1000 when not gaming

3. What's your maximum budget? Any

4. Do you want additional buttons? At least 2 thumb buttons + at least one other for profile switching (not including scroll/middle click). The more buttons the better though...

5. What games do you play? I play a huge variety but I want the mouse to be top-notch especially for FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction? I do not want it.

7. Other relevant information:
- I currently have the Cooler Master Inferno
- I tried the DeathAdder 2013 - loved the sensor but I need more buttons
- How is the sensor on the G602?
- I want a flawless sensor


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuddy12345*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw/Finger Tip (not super important)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1400-1800 when gaming, <1000 when not gaming
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Any
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? At least 2 thumb buttons + at least one other for profile switching (not including scroll/middle click). The more buttons the better though...
> 
> 5. What games do you play? I play a huge variety but I want the mouse to be top-notch especially for FPS games
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I do not want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> - I currently have the Cooler Master Inferno
> - I tried the DeathAdder 2013 - loved the sensor but I need more buttons
> - How is the sensor on the G602?
> - I want a flawless sensor


The G602 has an optical sensor so its likely to never screw up. I believe they used an updated version of the sensor they put in the G5 many many moons ago. Still have a 100% working G5 at my house after 8 years of gaming. So I wouldn't worry about the sensor.
The only thing I've been hearing complains of (and I personally don't understand the problem) is that the mouse is quite heavy. Now I personally have no problems with a heavy mouse, I've actually stuck custom weights on my MMO7 to make it heavier, but for some people its a dealbreaker.


----------



## Pip Boy

started to focus in on my MX518's loud sharp clicks on button press at night. the mouse is great but id love a more rubbery feeling damped click. Any suggestions? Quiet as possible without being a click less but poor/average for gaming

So definitely still want it to be a gaming mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> started to focus in on my MX518's loud sharp clicks on button press at night. the mouse is great but id love a more rubbery feeling damped click. Any suggestions? Quiet as possible without being a click less but poor/average for gaming
> 
> So definitely still want it to be a gaming mouse.


The deathadder has a much more squishy click. It has a long and fairly even travel. I think it's a little quieter than my 518.


----------



## TheYonderGod

My Deathadder has served me well, but it's starting to go out, the middle button doesn't work half the time, and occasionally it aims straight up or down when I do a quick 180.
I'm trying to decide between getting another Deathadder (the newer 2013 editition) or something else...

1. What's your grip style?
Somewhat of a mix between all 3... but mostly claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
9.1" 360 (1000 DPI, 0.07 in Bf3)

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70ish, preferably $50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons are necessary. A few more buttons is fine, but not some 12 button monstrosity.

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 3/4 competitively, occasionally CSGO, other shooters, anything else.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Never noticed it, but I assume I don't want it.

7. Other relevant information:
I don't like ambidextrous shapes
Weight - Deathadder weight +/- works for me, I haven't seriously gamed on anything else so I wouldn't know
Wireless would be nice, but as a competitive gamer I can't risk any input lag at all, or batteries running out while playing
glossy finishes are the most idiotic idea for anything that you touch.. I hate the glossy sides of my Deathadder, but I can live with it.

I've heard bad things about laser mice so I'm trying to avoid them. I briefly tried a Steelseries Sensei once and it felt weird, not sure if I would get used to it.

Mice that I'm currently considering:
Deathadder 2013
Zowie EC(2?)
Logitech G400(s?)
Steelseries Ikari Optical


----------



## xCloudyHorizon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> My Deathadder has served me well, but it's starting to go out, the middle button doesn't work half the time, and occasionally it aims straight up or down when I do a quick 180.
> I'm trying to decide between getting another Deathadder (the newer 2013 editition) or something else...
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Somewhat of a mix between all 3... but mostly claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 9.1" 360 (1000 DPI, 0.07 in Bf3)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $70ish, preferably $50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons are necessary. A few more buttons is fine, but not some 12 button monstrosity.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 3/4 competitively, occasionally CSGO, other shooters, anything else.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Never noticed it, but I assume I don't want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I don't like ambidextrous shapes
> Weight - Deathadder weight +/- works for me, I haven't seriously gamed on anything else so I wouldn't know
> Wireless would be nice, but as a competitive gamer I can't risk any input lag at all, or batteries running out while playing
> glossy finishes are the most idiotic idea for anything that you touch.. I hate the glossy sides of my Deathadder, but I can live with it.
> 
> I've heard bad things about laser mice so I'm trying to avoid them. I briefly tried a Steelseries Sensei once and it felt weird, not sure if I would get used to it.
> 
> Mice that I'm currently considering:
> Deathadder 2013
> Zowie EC(2?)
> Logitech G400(s?)
> Steelseries Ikari Optical


Have you considered the Mionix Naos 8200? It is laser and is shaped differently than the Deathadder, but the Deathadder was the first gaming mouse I used(borrowed). I had it for about a week, then I bought my Naos 8200 right before the BF4 beta. It feels just like the Deathadder to me in terms of the grippy material, the clicks feel way more responsive, and I've had 0 issues with the sensor or tracking. I use it on a Corsair MM200 and it tracks wonderfully. Only issue I had with it was getting used to the finger rests, which I got used to and I love them now.


----------



## TheYonderGod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xCloudyHorizon*
> 
> Have you considered the Mionix Naos 8200? It is laser and is shaped differently than the Deathadder, but the Deathadder was the first gaming mouse I used(borrowed). I had it for about a week, then I bought my Naos 8200 right before the BF4 beta. It feels just like the Deathadder to me in terms of the grippy material, the clicks feel way more responsive, and I've had 0 issues with the sensor or tracking. I use it on a Corsair MM200 and it tracks wonderfully. Only issue I had with it was getting used to the finger rests, which I got used to and I love them now.


$90, no thanks. I do think I would like the finger rests though. I have a nearly permanent indentation on my pinky finger from the side of my mouse, lol.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> My Deathadder has served me well, but it's starting to go out, the middle button doesn't work half the time, and occasionally it aims straight up or down when I do a quick 180.
> I'm trying to decide between getting another Deathadder (the newer 2013 editition) or something else...
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Somewhat of a mix between all 3... but mostly claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 9.1" 360 (1000 DPI, 0.07 in Bf3)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $70ish, preferably $50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons are necessary. A few more buttons is fine, but not some 12 button monstrosity.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 3/4 competitively, occasionally CSGO, other shooters, anything else.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Never noticed it, but I assume I don't want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I don't like ambidextrous shapes
> Weight - Deathadder weight +/- works for me, I haven't seriously gamed on anything else so I wouldn't know
> Wireless would be nice, but as a competitive gamer I can't risk any input lag at all, or batteries running out while playing
> glossy finishes are the most idiotic idea for anything that you touch.. I hate the glossy sides of my Deathadder, but I can live with it.
> 
> I've heard bad things about laser mice so I'm trying to avoid them. I briefly tried a Steelseries Sensei once and it felt weird, not sure if I would get used to it.
> 
> Mice that I'm currently considering:
> Deathadder 2013
> Zowie EC(2?)
> Logitech G400(s?)
> Steelseries Ikari Optical


Sounds like you want a Logitech G500. You could also look on Ebay for a used G5. I have one, been gaming on it for 7 consecutive years.


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> My Deathadder has served me well, but it's starting to go out, the middle button doesn't work half the time, and occasionally it aims straight up or down when I do a quick 180.
> I'm trying to decide between getting another Deathadder (the newer 2013 editition) or something else...
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Somewhat of a mix between all 3... but mostly claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 9.1" 360 (1000 DPI, 0.07 in Bf3)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $70ish, preferably $50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons are necessary. A few more buttons is fine, but not some 12 button monstrosity.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 3/4 competitively, occasionally CSGO, other shooters, anything else.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Never noticed it, but I assume I don't want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I don't like ambidextrous shapes
> Weight - Deathadder weight +/- works for me, I haven't seriously gamed on anything else so I wouldn't know
> Wireless would be nice, but as a competitive gamer I can't risk any input lag at all, or batteries running out while playing
> glossy finishes are the most idiotic idea for anything that you touch.. I hate the glossy sides of my Deathadder, but I can live with it.
> 
> I've heard bad things about laser mice so I'm trying to avoid them. I briefly tried a Steelseries Sensei once and it felt weird, not sure if I would get used to it.
> 
> Mice that I'm currently considering:
> Deathadder 2013
> Zowie EC(2?)
> Logitech G400(s?)
> Steelseries Ikari Optical


If you like the DeathAddder and want rubbery sides then look at getting either the 3.5G Black Edition or the DeathAdder 2013.

If you want something else then the Zowie EC eVo is a good mouse to look at. I went from a DeathAdder to an EC1 eVo and had no issues adjusting.


----------



## DuckySchmucky

Good mouse for small hands? Sorry i'm too lazy to look through the whole thread for a good suggestion.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckySchmucky*
> 
> Good mouse for small hands? Sorry i'm too lazy to look through the whole thread for a good suggestion.


Zowie FK is pretty good. All I hear is how it was designed for small hands.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Zowie FK is pretty good. All I hear is how it was designed for small hands.


+1


----------



## zerouse7en

1. What's your grip style?
- Fingertip, I have small hands.

2. What's your sensitivity?
- 1600 - 3200 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
- 80 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
- Besides left & right & middle clicks & scroll wheel, DPI changer (1 - 2 buttons) & side buttons (2 - 4 buttons) would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
- FPS, and I use AutoCad & Photoshop too.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
- Yes, I do mind.

7. Other relevant information:
- LOD: I usually lift my mouse off so low LOD is nice.
- Shape: I can adapt to both ambidextrous and ergonomic shapes.
- Button activation force: medium.
- My hands don't sweat.
- Driver should have elegant and easy-to-use UI.

8. Mousepads?
- I don't know about this, I just need a mousepad that will perform well with that mouse. 30 USD is my maximum budget for this.


----------



## TheYonderGod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> If you like the DeathAddder and want rubbery sides then look at getting either the 3.5G Black Edition or the DeathAdder 2013.
> 
> If you want something else then the Zowie EC eVo is a good mouse to look at. I went from a DeathAdder to an EC1 eVo and had no issues adjusting.


Thanks for actually reading what I wrote and not suggesting things I said I don't want (ie high price, and laser)









I think I'm just going to go with the deathadder. I was thinking about the Zowie but they don't sell EC1s anymore, and I don't want the smaller EC2.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> Thanks for actually reading what I wrote and not suggesting things I said I don't want (ie high price, and laser)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm just going to go with the deathadder. I was thinking about the Zowie but they don't sell EC1s anymore, and I don't want the smaller EC2.


Wut? I just purchased 2 black EC1 eVos >.>


----------



## joeybuddy96

copy-pasted this post from here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1436269/naos-8200-vs-m95
I read a bunch of posts from these threads:
http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list
http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology
http://www.overclock.net/t/786643/overall-mouse-user-comparison-rating-finding-the-best-mouse-on-ocn
http://www.overclock.net/t/1420084/best-optical-sensor-in-the-market-atm-deathadder-2013s-s3988-or-logitech-g400s-s3095
One other page on sensors:
http://www.esreality.com/wiki/Hardware:Mice_Sensors

Based on the article on maximum useful CPI's, it sounds like the cutoff for usefulness was not much more than 3200 CPI, but having a higher CPI is harmless, as long as lower native CPI's are included alongside of them. Desk space is really tight with maybe six inches to move the mouse around. 1920x1080 is the native resolution of the monitors, although that is less important than anything as the games played are usually FPSes or vehicle-based RTSes, and not 2D MMO's.

What seems to be preferred in the Mice Suggestion thread is optical sensors over laser, the S3988 in the Deathadder 2013 4G being the top optical sensor made by Avago. But people say it has acceleration, but less so than the A9800 sensor in the NAOS and m95. The other top suggestion is the g400s with the 3090 sensor. The above link has a long debate on it; my input is that it has 4000 CPI vs the 6400 CPI of the Deathadder 2013 4G, and 25G vs 50G max acceleration, and a max speed of 140in/s vs 200in/s. I've gone through probably three mx518's before sensor failures and rubberization gomming, which have a similar chassis to the g400s, so I don't expect their product to last six months under the level of wear they're getting in a system used maybe 19 hours a day by various people.


----------



## afya

I'm trying to calculate my dpi in bf3 so you guys can suggest me a mouse but I'm not sure if my calculation is correct. Please help me out.

I tried rotating 360 in bf3 last night, starting from the edge of my mouse pad, my mouse ended 1" away. I was playing on 1920x1080 so 1920*4/1 = 7680. I kinda doubt I need a value that high.

This setting is better for close range combat I think. At long range I definitely would tune it down.

Can anyone tell me how to properly measure that so I can try again tonight? Thanks


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afya*
> 
> I'm trying to calculate my dpi in bf3 so you guys can suggest me a mouse but I'm not sure if my calculation is correct. Please help me out.
> 
> I tried rotating 360 in bf3 last night, starting from the edge of my mouse pad, my mouse ended 1" away. I was playing on 1920x1080 so 1920*4/1 = 7680. I kinda doubt I need a value that high.
> 
> This setting is better for close range combat I think. At long range I definitely would tune it down.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to properly measure that so I can try again tonight? Thanks


You mean doing 360 degrees takes you only one inch? If that's the case then yes, you could use high dpi mice, especially in BF3 where you skip like mad on higher sens...

Btw you don't need to measure, go to www.mouse-sensitivity.com and let the site calculate for you.


----------



## afya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You mean doing 360 degrees takes you only one inch? If that's the case then yes, you could use high dpi mice, especially in BF3 where you skip like mad on higher sens...
> 
> Btw you don't need to measure, go to www.mouse-sensitivity.com and let the site calculate for you.


That's correct. And thanks for the website. I'll check again tonight. I never realize I was playing in such sensitivity, and I'm using a mouse with 800dpi.

And is there a way I can find out my dpi on desktop?


----------



## TheYonderGod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afya*
> 
> I'm trying to calculate my dpi in bf3 so you guys can suggest me a mouse but I'm not sure if my calculation is correct. Please help me out.
> 
> I tried rotating 360 in bf3 last night, starting from the edge of my mouse pad, my mouse ended 1" away. I was playing on 1920x1080 so 1920*4/1 = 7680. I kinda doubt I need a value that high.
> 
> This setting is better for close range combat I think. At long range I definitely would tune it down.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to properly measure that so I can try again tonight? Thanks


I'm not sure what you're asking, are you trying to find out what your mouse DPI is?

The easiest way would probably be to just google the mouse. If that doesn't work, I'll need your Bf3 sensitivity as well. Go to Documents/Battlefield 3/settings. Open 'PROF_SAVE_profile' with Wordpad and find "GstInput.MouseSensitivity"


----------



## afya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> I'm not sure what you're asking, are you trying to find out what your mouse DPI is?
> 
> The easiest way would probably be to just google the mouse. If that doesn't work, I'll need your Bf3 sensitivity as well. Go to Documents/Battlefield 3/settings. Open 'PROF_SAVE_profile' with Wordpad and find "GstInput.MouseSensitivity"


I was trying to find out what dpi do I need for my new mouse, so that you guys can suggest some mouses for me. But it doesn't matter now. I just bought the M90 from corsair outlet. The size is similar to what I'm using, there are some extra buttons, wired, etc.


----------



## Andorski

Been banging my head all night trying to find a mouse that suits my needs. I'm looking for a right handed claw grip mouse with four or more additional buttons for gaming (mostly shooters).

The mouse I've been thinking of getting was the G700/G770s due to the great additional button layout it has, but it's large size is a deterrent. I know that there are plenty of ambidextrous mice that have four addtional buttons (two on each side), but I don't think I would find it comfortable to press on the two right sided buttons.

It would also be a plus if the mouse had adjustable weights as well. While I don't really require that feature, I would like to buy a mouse with adjustable weights just so I get a better sense of how heavy I prefer my mouse to be.


----------



## GuardianOS

1. What's your grip style?
Doesn't really matter, I currently use a Logitech G9 (the original) that I have had since Fall 2007. It now has problems holding down the left click. Prefer something that isn't enormous. (heavy)

2. What's your sensitivity?

1600-1800 DPI Battlefield + other shooters. 2400 for non shooters and general desktop use. I don't know if the original G9 has a lot of acceleration. (Usually leave in-game to default)

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
If they are there fine, but I really only need DPI adjustment and two buttons on the thumb.

5. What games do you play?
Name it, I have probably played it. Civ, League of Legends, Sanctum, Skyrim, etc. I go across all genres.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Don't really understand.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I want some sort of DPI indicator on the mouse or some way to know what setting it is at.

I do not use mouse pads. I use a solid wooden table that has never caused problems for my laser mice. I cannot use a mouse pad on it as it is curved where the mouse is and any square/rectangular mouse pad would hang off the edge.

I would prefer wired but I have been looking at the G700s and possibly using it wired however I hear the cable it comes with stiff. And the mouse may be too heavy. (I know I can replace the cable with another cable, but that seems a bit excessive for such a pricey mouse. However, with all the pain I have had trying to find a new mouse, I could probably live with that.)
I have seen misleading information about how much the G9 actually weighs but I wouldn't want something that much heavier. In many ways, I am most tempted to try the G700s. Especially since I can return it with no questions asked.

I tried the G500s and it had a horrible high pitch whine to it. Otherwise I probably would have liked it.

I do not care for the Death Adder as it has no DPI adjustment on the mouse.

I do not have access to Zowei, Mionix, Anker, and several other brands. (I want something I can pick up in store, try, and return if I hate the thing)

I looked at the Mamba but from customer reviews you either get one that is perfect or one that breaks 50% of the time.

I have considered paying $40 and getting a refurbished G9x, I just hear the different sensor in it has issues with acceleration that the original G9 did not. (Also it would have virtually no warranty and who knows how long it would last.)

Mice I have used as my primary desktop mouse:
1996-2004/2005 Logitech Trackball
2004/2005-2007 Logitech G7 (Still in use, given to a parent)
2007- Logitech G9

EDIT: I also notice no one seems to recommend the Roccat Kone XTD.


----------



## popita

Hi , one question : What mouse is better for claw grip ? Deathadder 2013 , Razer Taipan or Razer Imperator? I use the mouse for fps games ( call of duty series )

Thanks


----------



## Jubijub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mackem*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? - *Kind of a palm / claw hybrid; My palm touches the mouse but I use my thumb and fingers in a sort of claw position to move the mouse / click*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - *I play at around 1200DPI*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? - *Depends on the quality of the mouse, but under £50 GBP if possible*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? - *One or two side buttons would be great*
> 
> 5. What games do you play? - *StarCraft II, FPS games*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? - *Rather not have any sort of prediction / acceleration*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> *Would like a mouse with a nice design for right hand, feels good in the hand, something that isn't as heavy as the Deathadder 2013, nice tactile buttons*


I got the same hold as you do and I quite like my Corsair M65, as the side go quite far on the back, meaning that thumb and pinkie can hold the side very firmly. The center of the mouse is quite high, meaning the palm does touch, and can lay.
I guess you would also like the logitech as they are quite easy to hold that way as well.
In terms of Razer, the Mamba also has a very good grip if you hold mouse in an hybrid way, but as this is an older model, they may have a newer models with similar handling

I'll let others with steelseries / roccat experience comment on which mouse would be suitable


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GuardianOS*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Doesn't really matter, I currently use a Logitech G9 (the original) that I have had since Fall 2007. It now has problems holding down the left click. Prefer something that isn't enormous. (heavy)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1600-1800 DPI Battlefield + other shooters. 2400 for non shooters and general desktop use. I don't know if the original G9 has a lot of acceleration. (Usually leave in-game to default)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> If they are there fine, but I really only need DPI adjustment and two buttons on the thumb.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Name it, I have probably played it. Civ, League of Legends, Sanctum, Skyrim, etc. I go across all genres.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Don't really understand.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> I want some sort of DPI indicator on the mouse or some way to know what setting it is at.
> 
> I do not use mouse pads. I use a solid wooden table that has never caused problems for my laser mice. I cannot use a mouse pad on it as it is curved where the mouse is and any square/rectangular mouse pad would hang off the edge.
> 
> I would prefer wired but I have been looking at the G700s and possibly using it wired however I hear the cable it comes with stiff. And the mouse may be too heavy. (I know I can replace the cable with another cable, but that seems a bit excessive for such a pricey mouse. However, with all the pain I have had trying to find a new mouse, I could probably live with that.)
> I have seen misleading information about how much the G9 actually weighs but I wouldn't want something that much heavier. In many ways, I am most tempted to try the G700s. Especially since I can return it with no questions asked.
> 
> I tried the G500s and it had a horrible high pitch whine to it. Otherwise I probably would have liked it.
> 
> I do not care for the Death Adder as it has no DPI adjustment on the mouse.
> 
> I do not have access to Zowei, Mionix, Anker, and several other brands. (I want something I can pick up in store, try, and return if I hate the thing)
> 
> I looked at the Mamba but from customer reviews you either get one that is perfect or one that breaks 50% of the time.
> 
> I have considered paying $40 and getting a refurbished G9x, I just hear the different sensor in it has issues with acceleration that the original G9 did not. (Also it would have virtually no warranty and who knows how long it would last.)
> 
> Mice I have used as my primary desktop mouse:
> 1996-2004/2005 Logitech Trackball
> 2004/2005-2007 Logitech G7 (Still in use, given to a parent)
> 2007- Logitech G9
> 
> EDIT: I also notice no one seems to recommend the Roccat Kone XTD.


Well I ordered the Logitech G602 and it should be here tomorrow so I will let you know about that mouse. If not, try the G500 again, I have one at work and I don't hear anything, granted I also have the original G500 so that could be why. But yeah I will let you know about the G602 when I get it tomorrow or the next day.


----------



## GuardianOS

Thanks. It may also be my hearing. It is extremely sensitive to any electrical noise. But this was beyond that, I could hear the G500s from ten feet away and when using it the whine was even louder.

I am trying the G700s right now and it is too heavy, too much grip stuff on it (I don't mind the thumb bit, it is the right side that feels like your skin is peeling off), and poorly designed that you can't take out the battery when in wired mode and disable the battery indicator that flashes; which would make the weight difference.


----------



## Gamefreak565

1. What's your grip style?

Palm grip, some friends call it a hybrid palm-claw grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?

~~1800 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't give a **** as long as it's good

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Two on the side would be a minimum in this regards

5. What games do you play?

MMOs, ARPGs (Path of Exile), FPS, MOBA

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes, I can't tolerate prediction.

7. Other relevant information:

I'd prefer the mouse to be

- Light
- Sweat resistant
- I have average sized hands, so whatever is good for that size
- Easy to reach side buttons
- On-board macro capabilities
- Easy to click scroll wheel

*I have tried*
- Deathadder 2013
- G602
- G400s
- Razer Naga
- G600

I ended up hating all of them for one reason or another, so please do not include suggestions for these mice.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm grip, some friends call it a hybrid palm-claw grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> ~~1800 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Don't give a **** as long as it's good
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Two on the side would be a minimum in this regards
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> MMOs, ARPGs (Path of Exile), FPS, MOBA
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes, I can't tolerate prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I'd prefer the mouse to be
> 
> - Light
> - Sweat resistant
> - I have average sized hands, so whatever is good for that size
> - Easy to reach side buttons
> - On-board macro capabilities
> - Easy to click scroll wheel
> 
> *I have tried*
> - Deathadder 2013
> - G602
> - G400s
> - Razer Naga
> - G600
> 
> I ended up hating all of them for one reason or another, so please do not include suggestions for these mice.


The Logitech G400 fits most of those criteria, although the scroll wheel is pretty crappy. It's a light click, though. The side buttons are probably find if your thumb isn't too long.

Edit: managed to miss the G400s part... How about a roccat savu?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm grip, some friends call it a hybrid palm-claw grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> ~~1800 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Don't give a **** as long as it's good
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Two on the side would be a minimum in this regards
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> MMOs, ARPGs (Path of Exile), FPS, MOBA
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes, I can't tolerate prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I'd prefer the mouse to be
> 
> - Light
> - Sweat resistant
> - I have average sized hands, so whatever is good for that size
> - Easy to reach side buttons
> - On-board macro capabilities
> - Easy to click scroll wheel
> 
> *I have tried*
> - Deathadder 2013
> - G602
> - G400s
> - Razer Naga
> - G600
> 
> I ended up hating all of them for one reason or another, so please do not include suggestions for these mice.


Logitech G700/s. Has everything you need, though I have to say I personally prefer the G602 to it because I love optical sensors. Though I don't recommend it due to reliability, take a look at the Cyborg RAT 7/MMO. Has everything else you want in a mouse.


----------



## Deadeye

If you like Ikari maybe give this also a shoot: mionix naos 3200 similar design to ikari


----------



## Scrubls

*1. What's your grip style?*

In the middle of Palm and Claw

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

1500 - 2000 DPI

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Unlimited, as long as it's good.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

No less then 4 on the side (more and it might get confusing), and some more elsewhere.

*5. What games do you play?*

MMO's, FPS, MOBA, RPG's

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't even know what that is.... but if it's some kind of aiding/correction/acceleration, yes I do mind.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I'd prefer the mouse to be/have

- WIRED (at least the option to be)
- SUPER comfortable
- Fairly heavy
- Sweat resistant
- Rubberized (only if possible)
- Easy to reach additional buttons
- On-board macro capabilities
- Programmable buttons
- Somewhere to put the pinky on would be nice

My hand is about 19 cm long and I'm right handed.


----------



## meatex

1. What's your grip style?
fingertip grip - I also hold the mouse quite far back

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600dpi 500-1000mhz

3. What's your maximum budget?
$120 Au

4. Do you want additional buttons?
one side button minimum though as I hold it far back needs to be not too far forward

5. What games do you play?
RTS, FPS and MMO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
prefer no prediction or acceleration

7. Other relevant information:
I used to use a RAT 7 which I loved but had issues with the sensor where vertical axis would stop registering. I would have to tap the mouse up and down to fix.
It started happening more often so switched to the Tt esports Level 10M and like the power, weight and options (ability to adjust LOD, polling rate and everything is cool) but it also has issues with sensor for me on occaision and doesn't feel right.
I don't want wireless as any i try have lag / jitter.


----------



## kelberot

1. What's your grip style? *Hybrid, although I'm fine with palm-grip oriented mice.*

2. What's your sensitivity? *6/11 Windows, low DPI, in-game (CSGO) it's around 1 - 1.1*

3. What's your maximum budget? *if it's going to last me a long time, no limits*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *at least 2 extra buttons, too used to mouse4 and mouse5 to go back*

5. What games do you play? *I play mostly FPS and RTS, but I care more about accuracy than speed*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *Preferably no prediction*

7. Other relevant information: *It has to be LIGHT. At least lighter than my DA3.5. I have small hands and I'm a lefty, so on top of a small hand, my right arm is weaker. I'm looking for anything around 80-95g, but I'll consider something as heavy, as long as it's smaller. Wired too.

Don't really care about anything else, but I'd rather not have to deal with razer synapse.

I currently have a razer destructor but I'm willing to buy a mousepad that fits a specific mouse.*


----------



## Atavax

1. What's your grip style?

claw, but i'm used to doing it on palm style mice, DA, g400

2. What's your sensitivity?

12-12.1 inches per 360

3. What's your maximum budget?

$90ish, really anything within reason

4. Do you want additional buttons?

ergonmics, build quality, and sensor is most important to me, extra buttons if they don't get in the way are welcome

5. What games do you play?

tf2, quake live, cs go

6. Do you mind about prediction?

yes, no prediction please

7. Other relevant information:

hands are pretty average in length, but a little on the wide side.

plug and play is important

prefer non braided cord, but not a huge deal either way

hate the glossy finish on the side of da 3.5g, need a mouse that can handle a little sweat when gripping the sides.

right now i'm leaning towards possibly the zowie ec1 evo cl, zowie fk, or the cm storm spawn. Seems like they all have a reputation for solid build qualities and sensors.

my hand is a little wide, so i think i might enjoy the wider spawn, and i'm willing to spend the time to adjust to a different way to hold the mouse, a little concerned over how short it is, seems like a design people either love or hate. I like the option to set macros and seems to claim the macros are even saved to the mouse, so don't require the computer to have anything installed. 800 dpi seems ideal to me, but seems like most reviews have the medium step working best for it. Seems like with fw61 it should work well with 800 dpi and 500 or 1000hz, but have no idea what its performance is like compared to to fw32 at 1800 with 125hz. If i'm going to use the mid range regardless, then it doesn't matter that there is the option for 800 dpi, and using the zowie's mid step would actually put me closer to the 800ish target. I am also concerned over on some images i see the spawn clearly with a braided cable, and some with rubber, i know i prefer rubber, but if i order online, which is likely i'm afraid i'd get sent a braided. Also a little nervous about having to update firmware and possibly use unofficial firmware. I like the red paint job, and doesn't even have the flashy LEDs, seems like almost every mouse is either white or black and has gimmicky LEDs. And its a little cheaper, so thats always a plus.

with the zowies, i like simple no nonsense approach. I would be guaranteed a quality rubber cable. I have the option to decide whether i want to do the zowie for palm grip mouse with the ec evo, or i can chose the fk if i want to do the claw grip mouse. Only downside is claw grip mouse isn't as wide as the spawn. Concerned about Zowie's performance at 450, with the delay. Am i going to need to use the mid step? Then its a little bit of a bummer that you don't have the ability to have macros built into the mouse like the spawn, and a couple less buttons.


----------



## Sikairus

I think I have my mind set on either a CM Storm Spawn, or a R.A.T. 3. I prefer fingertip grip mice, and i believe that these two have flawless sensors. Any other mice like these two, or should I pick one of these?


----------



## TheYonderGod

My new DA 2013 has tracking problems on my mosue pad, what should I get? Steelseries QCK?

I have this right now: http://www.qpad.com/shop/en/mousepads/91-qpad-ct-complexity-large.html I'd like something similar but without the lighter colors that it has; that's where I have problems.

Max budget, something like $20, if it's more than $10 it better be REALLY good.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sikairus*
> 
> I think I have my mind set on either a CM Storm Spawn, or a R.A.T. 3. I prefer fingertip grip mice, and i believe that these two have flawless sensors. Any other mice like these two, or should I pick one of these?


Do the CM Storm, the RAT's all have the same bad sensor.


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheYonderGod*
> 
> My new DA 2013 has tracking problems on my mosue pad, what should I get? Steelseries QCK?
> 
> I have this right now: http://www.qpad.com/shop/en/mousepads/91-qpad-ct-complexity-large.html I'd like something similar but without the lighter colors that it has; that's where I have problems.
> 
> Max budget, something like $20, if it's more than $10 it better be REALLY good.


The Razer Goliathus works great with a DeathAdder.


----------



## jrcbandit

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600-3200 DPI range

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Need at least 2 thumb buttons, a few extra would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
All types except I don't play MMORPGs or MOBAs so don't need that many buttons.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would prefer to have as little as possible

7. Other relevant information:
Want a mouse with reliability on the buttons. I've had multiple Razer mice fail and now my Naos 8200 ;p.
Prefer to have right handed mouse, wired with braided cord. Laser or optical will work, although I dislike the bug with many laser mice where it drifts when you pick the mouse up off the mat, and input lag is a big no no. I do like the comfort of the Naos.

I am interested in upcoming reviews for the Steelseries Rival. I usually am not interested in wireless mice, but the Logitech G602 also looks good.


----------



## Sikairus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Do the CM Storm, the RAT's all have the same bad sensor.


Really? I thought the R.A.T. 3 optical had the Avago 3090, the same as the spawn.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sikairus*
> 
> Really? I thought the R.A.T. 3 optical had the Avago 3090, the same as the spawn.


Terribly sorry, it is an optical now. It used to be the POS twin-eye. I recommend the RAT then, fantastic feeling mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Terribly sorry, it is an optical now. It used to be the POS twin-eye. I recommend the RAT then, fantastic feeling mouse.


The twin eye sensor doesn't really seem to have anything wrong with it that I noticed in my brief experience with it. I remember it not having any kind of acceleration or smoothing feeling. It did do a weird jump when you picked it up, but that wasn't a major problem.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The twin eye sensor doesn't really seem to have anything wrong with it that I noticed in my brief experience with it. I remember it not having any kind of acceleration or smoothing feeling. It did do a weird jump when you picked it up, but that wasn't a major problem.


I've replaced my MMO 7 because of sensor problems twice in 6 months. Also that sensor in it is well known to be crap. Just google RAT 7 (or MMO7, or RAT5, or anything else that uses the twin-eye sensor) sensor issues and there are huge threads about it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I've replaced my MMO 7 because of sensor problems twice in 6 months. Also that sensor in it is well known to be crap. Just google RAT 7 (or MMO7, or RAT5, or anything else that uses the twin-eye sensor) sensor issues and there are huge threads about it.


I thought that was exclusive to the RAT series. I haven't heard of many problems with a lot of the Razer mice that use that sensor.


----------



## Injury

What are some mice similar to the Razer Abyssus? I am a claw grip gamer who mostly plays FPS games. I am looking for a optical sensor mouse. Thanks.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I thought that was exclusive to the RAT series. I haven't heard of many problems with a lot of the Razer mice that use that sensor.


No it was fairly prevalent to one of the razer mice that also used that sensor (forgot which one).


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I thought that was exclusive to the RAT series. I haven't heard of many problems with a lot of the Razer mice that use that sensor.


My Razer Lachesis 3G might track on one axis if its P.T.E. sensor collects dust, so I try to keep it clean, but I don't have this problem if it is clean.

Other than the S.P.I. operating around a supposed 700Hz, the sensor tracks well, and I won't label the Z axis as a "bug" because that is intended...

The other Razer mice after the Lachesis 3G have added an "advanced tracking algorithm" or "dynamic DPI", so those should be avoided, but I saw reports of Razer's Naga 2014 not having this added algorithm.


----------



## Gamiac

I'm looking for a mousepad to replace the Propus 380 that I have, since it's getting fairly worn out.

*7. Hard or cloth?*

Hard, definitely.

*8. Rough or smooth?*

Would like something on the smooth side. In particular, if there's something smoother than the Propus, I'd like to go for that.

*9. Which size approximately?*

I don't want anything larger than a foot wide if I can help it. A little _less_ would be fine, actually.

*10. What's your maximum budget?*

I would say...30 dollars. Might go a _little_ higher if there's a significant quality jump.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> My Razer Lachesis 3G might track on one axis if its P.T.E. sensor collects dust, so I try to keep it clean, but I don't have this problem if it is clean.
> 
> Other than the S.P.I. operating around a supposed 700Hz, the sensor tracks well, and I won't label the Z axis as a "bug" because that is intended...
> 
> The other Razer mice after the Lachesis 3G have added an "advanced tracking algorithm" or "dynamic DPI", so those should be avoided, but I saw reports of Razer's Naga 2014 not having this added algorithm.


Wow, I didn't know it was the sensor. That's good to know. ADNS 3090 for life I guess.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamiac*
> 
> I'm looking for a mousepad to replace the Propus 380 that I have, since it's getting fairly worn out.
> 
> *7. Hard or cloth?*
> 
> Hard, definitely.
> 
> *8. Rough or smooth?*
> 
> Would like something on the smooth side. In particular, if there's something smoother than the Propus, I'd like to go for that.
> 
> *9. Which size approximately?*
> 
> I don't want anything larger than a foot wide if I can help it. A little _less_ would be fine, actually.
> 
> *10. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> I would say...30 dollars. Might go a _little_ higher if there's a significant quality jump.


Razer Goliathus. Google, enjoy!


----------



## TheSteel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Razer Goliathus. Google, enjoy!


It's not hard at all


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheSteel*
> 
> It's not hard at all


I find mine quite hard. Which model did you get? Maybe they are all slightly different.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I find mine quite hard..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheSteel*
> 
> It's not hard at all


really guys?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I find mine quite hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheSteel*
> 
> It's not hard at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> really guys?
Click to expand...


----------



## Overhaze

Hi I'm looking for a some mouse recommendations. I'm right handed use a claw/fingertip grip at high DPI and have rather long hands. The most comfortable mouse I've ever used was an MX Revolution and the least is a draw between the Razer Imperator and the Cyborg RAT 7.

I think I've narrowed it down to a choice between the Roccat Kone XTD and the Logitech g700s, but there may be others I'm overlooking. Any suggestions?

Thanks.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overhaze*
> 
> Hi I'm looking for a some mouse recommendations. I'm right handed use a claw/fingertip grip at high DPI and have rather long hands. The most comfortable mouse I've ever used was an MX Revolution and the least is a draw between the Razer Imperator and the Cyborg RAT 7.
> 
> I think I've narrowed it down to a choice between the Roccat Kone XTD and the Logitech g700s, but there may be others I'm overlooking. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks.


Take a look at the Logitech G602. Its very similar to the MX revolution and uses a very nice optical sensor.


----------



## Overhaze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Logitech G602. Its very similar to the MX revolution and uses a very nice optical sensor.


I've considered it but the DPI is too low for my needs.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overhaze*
> 
> I've considered it but the DPI is too low for my needs.


Thats what I thought too, but I'm using it now just fine, actually I find the max DPI too fast. And this is coming from using 4200 dpi on my MMO 7.


----------



## CyberWolf575

1. What's your grip style?
A mixture of Palm/Claw, but mainly Palm. I switch to full claw when I snipe in FPS games, but I can just as easily snipe with a palm grip. I Am currently using an original G5 and love the design, but If it was just a tad bigger, I wouldn't mind at all.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use the full 2000 DPI of the G5, but switch to 1000-1200 for sniping, depending if its COD, CS, Battlefield. My problem is that I enjoy a very fast mouse but it seems like this G5 at 2000DPI isn't very accurate at tracking, because in games I notice jitter when I move it around, as to compare it to when I set it at 600 DPI. Sadly tho, I can not play at 600DPI, it is just slow for me. So I would prefer something that is as accurate this G5 is at 400-600DPI but faster. Tho honestly I don't think I would need more than 3-4k DPI ever.

3. What's your maximum budget?
up to 80$ But I would prefer around 60$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, I play a lot of scrims in FPS, but I also very much enjoy playing Mobas; Dota 2, LoL, HoN. So I do prefer extra buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Lots of FPS, RPG and Mobas.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'm honestly not really sure about it. The only mouse I ever owned I never knew if it had prediction or not but looking back and doing some research I guess they all did.
That being said though, I'm not sure if mice with out prediction would be better or worse for FPS accuracy.

7. Other relevant information:
I do like a cool design







I am a sucker for LEDs too, but these are not MAJOR factors.


----------



## Gamiac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Razer Goliathus. Google, enjoy!


Hmm. Looking it up, apparently it's a bit larger than I'm looking for. Even the smallest one lists itself as having a width of 16 inches, which is too large for me. I'm looking for a smaller one.

It's also apparently a cloth pad, which I'm not looking for. I guess I should have specified that I'm looking more for a plastic pad, but I'm looking more for low friction than anything, so I can be flexible.


----------



## gizmo J

looking for a cheap mouse for competitive FPS (under $20)

Would this one be good?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y7MWZM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=9KRE6O2JE6FJ&coliid=I36Q33SVGWA642


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> looking for a cheap mouse for competitive FPS (under $20)
> 
> Would this one be good?
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y7MWZM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=9KRE6O2JE6FJ&coliid=I36Q33SVGWA642


I would go for this one
http://www.microcenter.com/product/388330/Wireless_Mouse_M310_-_Black_Topography

Whenever you go this cheap, go Logitech, you won't regret it.


----------



## gizmo J

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I would go for this one
> http://www.microcenter.com/product/388330/Wireless_Mouse_M310_-_Black_Topography
> 
> Whenever you go this cheap, go Logitech, you won't regret it.


I'm not a fan of wireless mice.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> looking for a cheap mouse for competitive FPS (under $20)
> 
> Would this one be good?
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y7MWZM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=9KRE6O2JE6FJ&coliid=I36Q33SVGWA642


I'd go for a Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical, personally.


----------



## ChrisB17

Maybe you guys can help me.

Currently I have a CM Storm Spawn, But the right click switch sticks and doesn't work half of the time.

Now I am looking for a new mouse. I have big hands and use a claw style grip. I want something better than the Spawn. I mainly FPS game. Price isn't really a factor I just want a very nice comfortable mouse.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisB17*
> 
> Maybe you guys can help me.
> 
> Currently I have a CM Storm Spawn, But the right click switch sticks and doesn't work half of the time.
> 
> Now I am looking for a new mouse. I have big hands and use a claw style grip. I want something better than the Spawn. I mainly FPS game. Price isn't really a factor I just want a very nice comfortable mouse.


Could you comfortably claw grip a DeathAdder?


----------



## ChrisB17

Not sure. Never tried one.


----------



## somebadlemonade

Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?


Fingertip mostly, but since i use a bigger mouse(mx518) at the moment combined with how I have kind of smaller hands, it's a bit of a mix between palm and fingertip.
Quote:


> 2. What's your sensitivity?


I don't go over 1600dpi with my mx518.
Quote:


> 3. What's your maximum budget?


Probably $90, but hopefully a more comfortable budget of around $50-70.
Quote:


> 4. Do you want additional buttons?


At least 2 on the side, so the same or more than my current mx518.
Quote:


> 5. What games do you play?


A little bit of everything, FPS, RTS, TBS, action RPGs.
Quote:


> 6. Do you mind about prediction?


Yea, but not as much as input lag.
Quote:


> 7. Other relevant information:


hand length 17.5cm (from tip of middle finger to wrist)
hand width 8.5cm

I'd prefer a small or medium sized mouse, laser or optical doesn't matter too much to me, I want something that is durable like my mx518, which is on its last leg after 4 years of hard use.

I was thinking about the corsair m95, since it's on sale right now for $70 before a $15 rebate.


----------



## Bearpaws

1. What's your grip style?
Well, back when I had a Steelseries Ikari, I'm pretty sure I used a palm grip, but I went on to get a Razer Abyssus, and now a Razer Naga, and they are too small to really use a palm grip on for me. I've gotten quite used to using a claw grip, but I think I would prefer a palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I've been using 1800 DPI for years, so a super high DPI is not a requirement.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No max bugdet, but I don't want to spend a fortune on it either.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No really neccesary, I've been using my Razer Naga for years now, and never really used the buttons on the side,

5. What games do you play?
MMO's, RPG's, some RTS, and very rarely FPS games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't think I've ever had a mouse with it, so I would prefer without.

7. Other relevant information:
Has to be wired of course. I've been looking at the Razer Deathadder 2013, but I'm not sure if it's a good fit for me, the only other one I have really considered is the Steelseries Rival.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bearpaws*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Well, back when I had a Steelseries Ikari, I'm pretty sure I used a palm grip, but I went on to get a Razer Abyssus, and now a Razer Naga, and they are too small to really use a palm grip on for me. I've gotten quite used to using a claw grip, but I think I would prefer a palm grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I've been using 1800 DPI for years, so a super high DPI is not a requirement.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No max bugdet, but I don't want to spend a fortune on it either.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> No really neccesary, I've been using my Razer Naga for years now, and never really used the buttons on the side,
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMO's, RPG's, some RTS, and very rarely FPS games.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't think I've ever had a mouse with it, so I would prefer without.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Has to be wired of course. I've been looking at the Razer Deathadder 2013, but I'm not sure if it's a good fit for me, the only other one I have really considered is the Steelseries Rival.


Take a look at the Logitech G602. Yes it is wireless but it runs at 500hz so input lag isn't really a problem. Its got a nice optical sensor, palm grip, easy to use buttons. Its seriously my favourite mouse to date.


----------



## ma2k5

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity? Less than 1000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? Unlimited

4. Do you want additional buttons? Not a requirement, but appreciated.

5. What games do you play? DOTA, SC2, MMORPG's (No FPS)

6. Do you mind about prediction? If it affects the games I play negatively, then yes.

7. Other relevant information: BUILD QUALITY is a priority as is sensor quality. As I said, unlimited budget, but preferably a fingertrip grip. Palming is too weird for me oO

Thanks


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ma2k5*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Less than 1000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Unlimited
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Not a requirement, but appreciated.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? DOTA, SC2, MMORPG's (No FPS)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? If it affects the games I play negatively, then yes.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: BUILD QUALITY is a priority as is sensor quality. As I said, unlimited budget, but preferably a fingertrip grip. Palming is too weird for me oO
> 
> Thanks


Razer Diamondback. I have one still going to this day. Fantastic fingertip grip mouse.


----------



## Bearpaws

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Logitech G602. Yes it is wireless but it runs at 500hz so input lag isn't really a problem. Its got a nice optical sensor, palm grip, easy to use buttons. Its seriously my favourite mouse to date.


Not what I'm looking for at all, I want a wired mouse, and the buttons on the side are not neccesary for me.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bearpaws*
> 
> Not what I'm looking for at all, I want a wired mouse, and the buttons on the side are not neccesary for me.


Why is wired a requirement for you?


----------



## Bearpaws

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Why is wired a requirement for you?


I don't see why I would have to explain but okay, wired is generally better, and I don't want to have to charge it or change batteries, wired just makes it so much easier.


----------



## bdrifter

Hello All,

I've been using Logitech mice for years, mainly because of their free spinning wheel feature, it's super useful for lengthy pages/documents/anything, but their rubber sides pick up gunk and dissolve from my sweat (my hands sweat a bit) so fast that after a year or two they just become too flaky for cleaning. The metallic bits get corroded pretty bad as well, it's just a pain in the butt.

So I started looking for mice without all that fancy rubber/metallic stuff, just plain plastic. But I'm having trouble finding anything that has a free spinning wheel. I even picked up a Zowie EC1 evo in hopes of getting used to notched scrolling but it just won't cut it, *I need my free spinning wheel dagnabbit!*









Looking for:

A) Free spinning wheel or similar mechanism for flying through content
B) Plastic. No rubber bits.

Much gratitude for anyone with a suggestion/recommendation

Sorry for the separate post! Should've noticed this thread. Moving it here.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
About medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
Would be great if I could keep it below 100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Zero is preferred

5. What games do you play?
FPS LoL but only casually

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't care much for it

7. Other relevant information:
Minimal design would be preferred (ie decals/graphics LEDs) Also wired

Cheers,
Walt


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bearpaws*
> 
> I don't see why I would have to explain but okay, wired is generally better, and I don't want to have to charge it or change batteries, wired just makes it so much easier.


Ok so your saying that wired is generally better probably because of polling rate and DPI. So the G602 has a polling rate of 500hz, most wired mice are at about 750, some at 1000+, you will not see a noticable difference from 500hz to 750hz, most people can't see the actual difference (I can but thats a different story). DPI is no big deal for you as you only want 1800DPI, the mouse caps at 2500DPI.
As for batteries, I haven't even used an 1/8th battery life and I've used mine for roughly 60 hours. They say that two duracell batteries will make the mouse last for 250 hours, I can totally believe that. And thats in 500hz mode, for desktop use, flick the switch, lowers the polling rate to 250hz. In power saver mode you can get battery life of an estimated 1440 hours. So battery life isnt really an issue. Sure you have to change the batteries once a month if you leave it on gaming mode, OH NO! Thats going to be so much extra money.
As for easier, I dont know about you, but the wire on my MMO 7 gets caught on everything.

Realistically, this is the only wireless mouse I would ever recommend for gaming use. Lots of other mice have given wireless a bad name, give this one a try and you won't regret it, I promise.


----------



## Bearpaws

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Ok so your saying that wired is generally better probably because of polling rate and DPI. So the G602 has a polling rate of 500hz, most wired mice are at about 750, some at 1000+, you will not see a noticable difference from 500hz to 750hz, most people can't see the actual difference (I can but thats a different story). DPI is no big deal for you as you only want 1800DPI, the mouse caps at 2500DPI.
> As for batteries, I haven't even used an 1/8th battery life and I've used mine for roughly 60 hours. They say that two duracell batteries will make the mouse last for 250 hours, I can totally believe that. And thats in 500hz mode, for desktop use, flick the switch, lowers the polling rate to 250hz. In power saver mode you can get battery life of an estimated 1440 hours. So battery life isnt really an issue. Sure you have to change the batteries once a month if you leave it on gaming mode, OH NO! Thats going to be so much extra money.
> As for easier, I dont know about you, but the wire on my MMO 7 gets caught on everything.
> 
> Realistically, this is the only wireless mouse I would ever recommend for gaming use. Lots of other mice have given wireless a bad name, give this one a try and you won't regret it, I promise.


My mouse never catches on anything, so that's not a problem, I don't care about costs on batteries, I'm just lazy, and I would much prefer not having the extra buttons on the side, as I have that on my Naga and I don't ever use them, so I don't really want them.


----------



## relicz

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low. 400 or 800 dpi most of the time

3. What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Foward and Back buttons for sure

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO, COD, BF, QL, and many more (mostly a competitive fps player)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Would prefer not to have any but a little bit is tolerable

7. Other relevant information:
My hands are big (20.5 cm, 8 inches) and i have a hard time finding any mouse that will allow for me to palmgrip a mouse. The best mouse size wise i have found is a IE3.0 but because i enjoy a low sensitivity the malfunction speed can get very annoying.

The Mice I own/have owned:
G400
G500
G700
IE3.0
Sensei
EC1

and i have used several others :/


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *relicz*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low. 400 or 800 dpi most of the time
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Doesn't matter
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Foward and Back buttons for sure
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:GO, COD, BF, QL, and many more (mostly a competitive fps player)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Would prefer not to have any but a little bit is tolerable
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My hands are big (20.5 cm, 8 inches) and i have a hard time finding any mouse that will allow for me to palmgrip a mouse. The best mouse size wise i have found is a IE3.0 but because i enjoy a low sensitivity the malfunction speed can get very annoying.
> 
> The Mice I own/have owned:
> G400
> G500
> G700
> IE3.0
> Sensei
> EC1
> 
> and i have used several others :/


The Deathadder 3.5G could be a decent fit. It's a little on the heavy side, though. The shape's similar to the EC1 but curvier.

The CM Storm Spawn is also a good mouse, but I don't think the shape would be good.

What were your specific complaints with the EC1 and the G400?


----------



## relicz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Deathadder 3.5G could be a decent fit. It's a little on the heavy side, though. The shape's similar to the EC1 but curvier.
> 
> The CM Storm Spawn is also a good mouse, but I don't think the shape would be good.
> 
> What were your specific complaints with the EC1 and the G400?


forgot to put that i used to have a deathadder 2013 until that broke. For me the deathadder is to small along with the g400. The EC1 has a horrible clicking distance imo and also the dpi steps i find to be quite annoying.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *relicz*
> 
> forgot to put that i used to have a deathadder 2013 until that broke. For me the deathadder is to small along with the g400. The EC1 has a horrible clicking distance imo and also the dpi steps i find to be quite annoying.


Well, if you find the Deathadder and the G400 too small, there's really not much you can do other than adapt. I have the same problem myself and have really found no solution.

I agree with you about DPI steps on Zowie mice, they are awful.


----------



## relicz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, if you find the Deathadder and the G400 too small, there's really not much you can do other than adapt. I have the same problem myself and have really found no solution.
> 
> I agree with you about DPI steps on Zowie mice, they are awful.


Pretty much what i thought but figured I'd ask. I remember on either this forum or another i once saw like a mold-able rubber/plastic that you could use to make the mouse a little larger but i couldn't recall the name on the substance. Any idea what it is?


----------



## Dregur

1. What's your grip style?

Palm, and I also have rather large hands (XL gloves, 9.5 inch span)

2. What's your sensitivity?

High

3. What's your maximum budget?

Unlimited, I guess

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Back and forward, minimum, maybe a DPI switch and a "sniper mode" would be nice, but optional

5. What games do you play?

Mostly RPG's recently, but I still FPS and strategy games a lot of the time.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I honestly don't know.

7. Other relevant information:

I currently have a Cyborg RAT 7, I like everything about the mouse, the pinky rest so I'm not dragging my pinky on my mouse pad, and the overall ergonomics of the mouse itself are decent. The only thing I don't like, and which is very important, is that damn sensor. It's terrible, I actually have to blow on it at times because the sensor loses track of where it's at, and only works horizontally until I blow on it. It doesn't happen often, but I've finally got fed up with it after a marathon session of gaming one night.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dregur*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm, and I also have rather large hands (XL gloves, 9.5 inch span)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> High
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Unlimited, I guess
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Back and forward, minimum, maybe a DPI switch and a "sniper mode" would be nice, but optional
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Mostly RPG's recently, but I still FPS and strategy games a lot of the time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I honestly don't know.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I currently have a Cyborg RAT 7, I like everything about the mouse, the pinky rest so I'm not dragging my pinky on my mouse pad, and the overall ergonomics of the mouse itself are decent. The only thing I don't like, and which is very important, is that damn sensor. It's terrible, I actually have to blow on it at times because the sensor loses track of where it's at, and only works horizontally until I blow on it. It doesn't happen often, but I've finally got fed up with it after a marathon session of gaming one night.


Hey there, I had the exact same problem as you. Large hands, wanted buttons and good DPI so I got the MMO7. My god that sensor is annoying. I personally went to the Logitech G602. I find it just as comfortable as just as responsive despite the low DPI. The optical sensors are really fast at the lower DPI's. Basically the highest DPI I was using on the MMO7 was 4300. Now I find 2500 really fast with this mouse. Currently gaming on 1700dpi, desktop is at 1200.
Another great mouse for large palms is the Logitech G700/s or G500. Good dpi, nice amount of buttons (on the G700) and comfortable. Seriously logitech is the only mouse I look at anymore for large, palm grip mice.


----------



## Dregur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Hey there, I had the exact same problem as you. Large hands, wanted buttons and good DPI so I got the MMO7. My god that sensor is annoying. I personally went to the Logitech G602. I find it just as comfortable as just as responsive despite the low DPI. The optical sensors are really fast at the lower DPI's. Basically the highest DPI I was using on the MMO7 was 4300. Now I find 2500 really fast with this mouse. Currently gaming on 1700dpi, desktop is at 1200.
> Another great mouse for large palms is the Logitech G700/s or G500. Good dpi, nice amount of buttons (on the G700) and comfortable. Seriously logitech is the only mouse I look at anymore for large, palm grip mice.


I appreciate the response, but I do have concerns about the buttons of the Gxxx mice I found. They feel sorta cheap to me, especially the click action on the main L/R buttons. Is that just me, or a button travel that I'm just not used to?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dregur*
> 
> I appreciate the response, but I do have concerns about the buttons of the Gxxx mice I found. They feel sorta cheap to me, especially the click action on the main L/R buttons. Is that just me, or a button travel that I'm just not used to?


Well it depends on which GXXX your talking about.
Almost all the left and right clicks you will experience on other mice will be no where near as nice as on your RAT 7. Those were my favourite left and right clicks on any mouse Ive ever used. But to answer your question.
the G500 does feel a little cheap, but the build quality is still very solid and the forwards and backwards buttons feel great.
The G700 main buttons feel great, especially the mouse wheel button (for switching between freewheeling and clicking) but the side buttons are most definately on the cheap side (I havent used the G700s yet so I cant say anything about that one)
The G602 just feels great overall, the side buttons are a huge improvement on the G700 and the left and right click feels great, not quite as good as the RAT 7 but you will have to get used to that. Like I said, almost all mice are going to feel a little lack luster when it comes to that.


----------



## AndAllThingsWillEnd

1. What's your grip style?

Palm, but that's because I've only had Palm grip mice. No Preference at the moment.

2. What's your sensitivity?

1000-1500

3. What's your maximum budget?

$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I currently own a G500, and love that I can push the middle mouse button left/right to use as extra buttons. Also I would prefer to have at least two side buttons.

5. What games do you play?

Usually FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Preferably none.

7. Other relevant information:

I've been interested in getting a nice optical mouse since I've had nothing but laser mice since I built my rig. Also, I've been wanting to replace my hard mat with something like a qck, but have reservations due to my current mouse...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndAllThingsWillEnd*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm, but that's because I've only had Palm grip mice. No Preference at the moment.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1000-1500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I currently own a G500, and love that I can push the middle mouse button left/right to use as extra buttons. Also I would prefer to have at least two side buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Usually FPS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Preferably none.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I've been interested in getting a nice optical mouse since I've had nothing but laser mice since I built my rig. Also, I've been wanting to replace my hard mat with something like a qck, but have reservations due to my current mouse...


If you like the G500, the G400's a similar shape and the sensor's probably better if you use a fairly low DPI. I love mine.


----------



## AndAllThingsWillEnd

I was looking at that and the spawn since I know both of those use the 3090 sensor, which is supposed to be pretty good.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndAllThingsWillEnd*
> 
> I was looking at that and the spawn since I know both of those use the 3090 sensor, which is supposed to be pretty good.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


The spawn is also pretty reputable. It's really down to ergonomics, between those two mice. The only downsides I could possibly point out to the G400 are the scroll wheel and the crappy cable.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you like the G500, the G400's a similar shape and the sensor's probably better if you use a fairly low DPI. I love mine.


Take a look at the Logitech G602. Fantastic mouse, one of my favorites to date. Great for palm grip, 500hz polling rate, super long battery life (we are talking 250 hours on performance mode and an estimated 1440 hours on power saving). It does however has quite a few more buttons then you probably need.
Also, like Costanza (Art) said, the G400 is a great choice as well.


----------



## Failuyr

1. What's your grip style?
Palm Grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
Dont know--first gaming mouse.
3. What's your maximum budget?
Preferably ~$50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two on the thumb side would be nice, I would take more if a mouse in my price offered more.
5. What games do you play?
A little bit of everything, it's not only for gaming though.
7. Other relevant information

Would prefer an optical sensor.
The reason I'm getting a "gaming" mouse is I want good quality, and good support.
Preferably an all black color scheme (matte preferably too).

I was at my local best buy, and they have a Logitech and Razer booth setup. The from the mice on display that I liked most there (Note: Deathadder and g602 were NOT on display) the Razer Taipan was my favorite, except it was too slim for my hands. So I'm thinking a Deathadder might be ideal for me, but I thought I'd ask for some advice from more knowledgeable people.

Speaking of Deathadders though; is there a difference between the Deathadder (3500) Black Edition and the regular, that causes the Black Edition to be $10 cheaper on Newegg?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Dont know--first gaming mouse.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Preferably ~$50
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two on the thumb side would be nice, I would take more if a mouse in my price offered more.
> 5. What games do you play?
> A little bit of everything, it's not only for gaming though.
> 7. Other relevant information
> 
> Would prefer an optical sensor.
> The reason I'm getting a "gaming" mouse is I want good quality, and good support.
> Preferably an all black color scheme (matte preferably too).
> 
> I was at my local best buy, and they have a Logitech and Razer booth setup. The from the mice on display that I liked most there (Note: Deathadder and g602 were NOT on display) the Razer Taipan was my favorite, except it was too slim for my hands. So I'm thinking a Deathadder might be ideal for me, but I thought I'd ask for some advice from more knowledgeable people.
> 
> Speaking of Deathadders though; is there a difference between the Deathadder (3500) Black Edition and the regular, that causes the Black Edition to be $10 cheaper on Newegg?


I personally would go for a Logitech G400. Great price, optical sensor and very reliable.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Dont know--first gaming mouse.
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Preferably ~$50
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two on the thumb side would be nice, I would take more if a mouse in my price offered more.
> 5. What games do you play?
> A little bit of everything, it's not only for gaming though.
> 7. Other relevant information
> 
> Would prefer an optical sensor.
> The reason I'm getting a "gaming" mouse is I want good quality, and good support.
> Preferably an all black color scheme (matte preferably too).
> 
> I was at my local best buy, and they have a Logitech and Razer booth setup. The from the mice on display that I liked most there (Note: Deathadder and g602 were NOT on display) the Razer Taipan was my favorite, except it was too slim for my hands. So I'm thinking a Deathadder might be ideal for me, but I thought I'd ask for some advice from more knowledgeable people.
> 
> Speaking of Deathadders though; is there a difference between the Deathadder (3500) Black Edition and the regular, that causes the Black Edition to be $10 cheaper on Newegg?


The black edition has a rubber coating on it, whereas the regular version has a soft touch plastic top and glossy sides.

The deathadder is similar in shape to a Microsoft intellimouse explorer, but a bit curvier on the sides and the top is arched differently.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Logitech G602. Fantastic mouse, one of my favorites to date. Great for palm grip, 500hz polling rate, super long battery life (we are talking 250 hours on performance mode and an estimated 1440 hours on power saving). It does however has quite a few more buttons then you probably need.
> Also, like Costanza (Art) said, the G400 is a great choice as well.


The problem with wireless mice tends to be that they are heavier than normal mice and that they sometimes have a bit of a lag.

I can't say whether or not it has a noticeable level of lag.

Since it has a battery, it's probably going to be heavier than a wired mouse. That's unavoidable.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The problem with wireless mice tends to be that they are heavier than normal mice and that they sometimes have a bit of a lag.
> 
> I can't say whether or not it has a noticeable level of lag.
> 
> Since it has a battery, it's probably going to be heavier than a wired mouse. That's unavoidable.


Very true. Personally, I can't seem to have enough weight in my mouse (Im strange) but I can see how weight would be a problem. The lag thing for 95% of people is physocematical.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Very true. Personally, I can't seem to have enough weight in my mouse (Im strange) but I can see how weight would be a problem. The lag thing for 95% of people is physocematical.


If the mouse is well designed, I would doubt that you'd be able to tell the difference in responsiveness unless you're the type that plays games at 120hz with no AA, V-sync or prerendered frames.


----------



## ChrisB17

1. What's your grip style?

Claw grip w/ big hands

2. What's your sensitivity?

Not super high DPI. I like a modest right in the middle setting.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Doesn't matter,, Whatever is good for my grip and hand size.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I would like about 4-5 buttons max. I have the G700s now and it has WAY to many for my liking.

5. What games do you play?

FPS, Diablo 3 and online browsing.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Not really. Comfort and quality is more important to me

7. Other relevant information:

I have the G700s now, Very comfy for me but the buttons are to much and I am lost in the software with all the settings. Anything more basic? I am coming from a CM Storm Spawn which bit the dust and I don't really want another one.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I personally would go for a Logitech G400. Great price, optical sensor and very reliable.


Is there any reason you suggested the G400(I'm assuming you meant the G400s, as the G400 comes up as discontinued on Newegg, and for $80 on Amazon) over the Deathadder?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The black edition has a rubber coating on it, whereas the regular version has a soft touch plastic top and glossy sides.
> 
> The deathadder is similar in shape to a Microsoft intellimouse explorer, but a bit curvier on the sides and the top is arched differently..


Wouldn't people prefer the rubber coating? Like, I feel like it'd be durable and more sweat resistant?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Is there any reason you suggested the G400(I'm assuming you meant the G400s, as the G400 comes up as discontinued on Newegg, and for $80 on Amazon) over the Deathadder?
> Wouldn't people prefer the rubber coating? Like, I feel like it'd be durable and more sweat resistant?


Depends on the person. Some people don't like that the rubber causes them to sweat more than glossy plastic. Also, rubber tends to be less grippy on skin than glossy plastic, in my experience.

They're both about the same to me.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Is there any reason you suggested the G400(I'm assuming you meant the G400s, as the G400 comes up as discontinued on Newegg, and for $80 on Amazon) over the Deathadder?


Because I have had terrible luck with Razer products, replaced 3 Deathadders before I gave up. Thats in a 2 month period. All my logitech stuff in my house still works 100%. We even have a G5 that we bought back when it was new and its getting on 8 years old and still goin strong.


----------



## treeman

1. What's your grip style?

Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium-high sensitivity

3. What's your maximum budget?

~$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Right now I have a Logitech M500 which has 2 additional buttons and I rarely find myself using them

5. What games do you play?

This is mostly a working mouse for GIMP and 3DS Max. But when I game it tends to be RPG's or FPS's

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Don't mind at all

7. Other relevant information:

I want a wired mouse for sure, I have yet to use a wireless mouse that I like. My work is too precise for packet loss and latency to get in the way. I have large hands (1ft pinkie to thumb) and so far only a Logitech M500 has been big and comfortable enough for me.

Thanks for recommendations


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Depends on the person. Some people don't like that the rubber causes them to sweat more than glossy plastic. Also, rubber tends to be less grippy on skin than glossy plastic, in my experience.
> 
> They're both about the same to me.


I've never used a rubber coated mouse, which is what led me to ask the question.
I know the Taipan has a rubber coated side, would the Deathadder Black Edition be the same rubber coating?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Because I have had terrible luck with Razer products, replaced 3 Deathadders before I gave up. Thats in a 2 month period. All my logitech stuff in my house still works 100%. We even have a G5 that we bought back when it was new and its getting on 8 years old and still goin strong.


I can understand the qualms about Razer products, but I've heard nothing but good about the Deathadders.

Are there any mice outside of Razer or Logitech that either of you would suggest? I'm open to most brands, I just don't know a whole lot about mice. I know Steel Series has some well respected laser mice, but what about their optical mice?

I mean, I want to use a cloth/soft pad, which is why I want an optical mice (plus, from my understanding, higher end optical mice are cheaper than higher end laser mice).


----------



## look

1. What's your grip style? Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? medium

3. What's your maximum budget? preferably no more than ~50

4. Do you want additional buttons? Sure, but not too many. My current mouse (logitech m705) is fine for me, but the left mouse button is dying.

5. What games do you play? League of Legends mostly lately. Lots of web browsing and a variety of other games from time to time.

6. Do you mind about prediction? No idea, never really noticed it. I imagine it would be jarring if this were present and obvious on the mouse.

7. Other relevant information: I don't want anything ridiculously heavy, but some weight feels nice. I don't need anything totally amazing, just looking for something that works well for me and is comfortable/high quality.


----------



## Ximerous

1. What's your grip style?

Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium/Medium-High

3. What's your maximum budget?

Anything

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I usually use two(with my current shatty mouse), one for knife, one for reload, but something like 4+ would be nice for other things.

5. What games do you play?

BF4 all day long, other FPS, and other random fun games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction would be nice, but if I can turn it off I am cool.

7. Other relevant information:

Currently use some Logitech mouse, not sure which, has two side buttons, but I have a super nice PC, keyboard, and mic. So now it's time to upgrade my mouse. I am really just looking for a smooth, accurate, lagless mouse that preforms beautifully and makes aiming easier and overall stuff better. I don't want a fatty mouse but I want one that isn't so light I fling it around. I also would like it to be wired.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ximerous*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Medium/Medium-High
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Anything
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I usually use two(with my current shatty mouse), one for knife, one for reload, but something like 4+ would be nice for other things.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> BF4 all day long, other FPS, and other random fun games.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No prediction would be nice, but if I can turn it off I am cool.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Currently use some Logitech mouse, not sure which, has two side buttons, but I have a super nice PC, keyboard, and mic. So now it's time to upgrade my mouse. I am really just looking for a smooth, accurate, lagless mouse that preforms beautifully and makes aiming easier and overall stuff better. I don't want a fatty mouse but I want one that isn't so light I fling it around. I also would like it to be wired.


If you want a good FPS mouse, look at the Logitech G400, Deathadder 3.5G and Roccat Savu.


----------



## Ximerous

Thank you!


----------



## dstrk

I looking mouse for FPS games (CS:GO)

I use 400 / 450 dpi with 500 hz

I use fingertip grip with half of my palm touch the mouse

now use Kinzu V2 pro

mousepad in use: QCK Mass

budget below $100

currently aiming for Logitech G9X (still selling in my country *Indonesia)
btw I'm prefer the glossy finish than rubber because of my sweaty hand / palm
(I have hyperhirosis)

can u find the perfect mouse for me?
thanks before


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dstrk*
> 
> I looking mouse for FPS games (CS:GO)
> 
> I use 400 / 450 dpi with 500 hz
> 
> I use fingertip grip with half of my palm touch the mouse
> 
> now use Kinzu V2 pro
> 
> mousepad in use: QCK Mass
> 
> budget below $100
> 
> currently aiming for Logitech G9X (still selling in my country *Indonesia)
> btw I'm prefer the glossy finish than rubber because of my sweaty hand / palm
> (I have hyperhirosis)
> 
> can u find the perfect mouse for me?
> thanks before


If you have small hands, the Zowie AM might be a good fit, although the sensor's a little weird. the AM has a glossy side version.

The Razer Deathadder 3.5G is better in terms of sensor than the Zowie AM (AM has a bit of a weird floaty feeling), but I'm not sure how good it would be for fingertip grip. It's not amazing if you have large hands, either.

Both mice are probably going to be better for FPS than the G9X.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? medium
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? preferably no more than ~50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Sure, but not too many. My current mouse (logitech m705) is fine for me, but the left mouse button is dying.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends mostly lately. Lots of web browsing and a variety of other games from time to time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? No idea, never really noticed it. I imagine it would be jarring if this were present and obvious on the mouse.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I don't want anything ridiculously heavy, but some weight feels nice. I don't need anything totally amazing, just looking for something that works well for me and is comfortable/high quality.


Hi Art, any ideas on my post?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> Hi Art, any ideas on my post?


G400 is pretty good if you want to palm grip I guess.

I'm not sure how much your mouse really matters if you're mainly playing LoL.


----------



## defury

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity? 800dpi

3. What's your maximum budget? 100$

4. Do you want additional buttons? I only need 2 side buttons anything else is gravy

5. What games do you play? Sc2, Dota 2, CS:GO

6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer not having it but it's not a deal breaker for me

7. Other relevant information: Has to be light 80-90g max, want as close to a sensei shape as possible as that's the shape I like (but don't like the sensor), no Kana or Kinzu. I have very small hands.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 800dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 100$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? I only need 2 side buttons anything else is gravy
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Sc2, Dota 2, CS:GO
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer not having it but it's not a deal breaker for me
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Has to be light 80-90g max, want as close to a sensei shape as possible as that's the shape I like (but don't like the sensor), no Kana or Kinzu. I have very small hands.


That's basically the Zowie FK, other than the DPI step.


----------



## Kaiyoko-Desu

Current mouse is a Logitech G5 I got 8 years ago. Love it but mouse feet are falling apart and I'm pretty sure my scroll wheel doesn't work anymore.

1. What's your grip style?

-Palm / Fingertip mix as I noticed.

2. What's your sensitivity?

-I guess high? I'm used to 2k laser DPI.

3. What's your maximum budget?

-$60 USD before tax/shipping; can go to $70 if convinced.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

-Need at least 2 side buttons for VoIP stuff.

5. What games do you play?

-FPS Games (BF4), MOBAs (LoL and DOTA2), some RPGs, random single players

6. Do you mind about prediction?

-Uh, what is this? If it tries to predict my movements, then no. If not, a explanation link would be awesome

7. Other relevant information:

-The grip style actually depended on the mouse itself. When I was testing in-store a few models recently, it seemed to varied.
-Right-hand requirement + small Asian hands; can use a ambidextrous mouse.
-DPI Selector a must
-Rubber grip.
-Short height if possible.
-Braided cable would be awesome, not highest priority.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> I can understand the qualms about Razer products, but I've heard nothing but good about the Deathadders.
> 
> Are there any mice outside of Razer or Logitech that either of you would suggest? I'm open to most brands, I just don't know a whole lot about mice. I know Steel Series has some well respected laser mice, but what about their optical mice?
> 
> I mean, I want to use a cloth/soft pad, which is why I want an optical mice (plus, from my understanding, higher end optical mice are cheaper than higher end laser mice).


Honestly, I have used a steelseries Sensi raw, and it was ok, but it just made me wonder why I was using a really expensive logitech with less buttons. Thats really the only other mouse ive used outside of my logitechs that I can honestly recommend. I have used a Cyborg MMO 7, but I cant recommend it because the sensor is a piece of garbage.


----------



## whiteironknuckle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you have small hands, the Zowie AM might be a good fit, although the sensor's a little weird. the AM has a glossy side version.
> 
> The Razer Deathadder 3.5G is better in terms of sensor than the Zowie AM (AM has a bit of a weird floaty feeling), but I'm not sure how good it would be for fingertip grip. It's not amazing if you have large hands, either.
> 
> Both mice are probably going to be better for FPS than the G9X.


The Zowie broke for me within six months and I don't mistreat my mice. Maybe it was a fluke, but that was enough to turn me off of it because it was too bare bones for what I paid.


----------



## defury

So I've narrowed it down to a Zowie FK or a Roccat Savu

1) I can buy a Savu in Canada and would have to use Ebay for the FK
2) Roccat has a 800 dpi step while I would have to get used to non native 1150 for FK
3) Roccat is a little bigger than FK, I prefer a smaller mouse
4) Roccat is 5g heavier, I use a Kana currently (72g) so both will seem heavy
5) Roccat is much cheaper

Thoughts? I am leaning towards the Savu right now but just not sure. The only real thing holding me back is it's 90g.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> So I've narrowed it down to a Zowie FK or a Roccat Savu
> 
> 1) I can buy a Savu in Canada and would have to use Ebay for the FK
> 2) Roccat has a 800 dpi step while I would have to get used to non native 1150 for FK
> 3) Roccat is a little bigger than FK, I prefer a smaller mouse
> 4) Roccat is 5g heavier, I use a Kana currently (72g) so both will seem heavy
> 5) Roccat is much cheaper
> 
> Thoughts? I am leaning towards the Savu right now but just not sure. The only real thing holding me back is it's 90g.


I think that when you change mice, you have to expect there is going to be a breaking in period where you will have to adjust to the differences. I think that because of that, you shouldn't make a difference a negative just because its different.

assuming the cost difference means very little, and assuming that you think the lighter and smaller nature of the FK will improve your performance, i would say go with it, you shouldn't be afraid of a minor change in DPI when you're changing mice. But obviously i don't know your financial situations and who knows how much if at all the extra 5g or slightly larger size of the Roccat would effect you.


----------



## backie

1. What's your grip style? Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? 450dpi low

3. What's your maximum budget? ~

4. Do you want additional buttons? nope

5. What games do you play? FPS, moba

6. Do you mind about prediction? Never used a mouse with it

7. Other relevant information:

Previous mice:
- zowie ec1/2 evo even on the native setting didnt feel "right"
- deathadder 2013 actualy found smoothing tolerable but shape issue back hump mainly cant grip it aswell as zowie white gloss
- intelimouse 3.0 cant go back to it due to negative accel slightly too big for me.

Looking for right handed ergonomic mouse around deathadder size but with similar ergonomics to zowie ec series.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 450dpi low
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? ~
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? nope
> 
> 5. What games do you play? FPS, moba
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Never used a mouse with it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Previous mice:
> - zowie ec1/2 evo even on the native setting didnt feel "right"
> - deathadder 2013 actualy found smoothing tolerable but shape issue back hump mainly cant grip it aswell as zowie white gloss
> - intelimouse 3.0 cant go back to it due to negative accel slightly too big for me.
> 
> Looking for right handed ergonomic mouse around deathadder size but with similar ergonomics to zowie ec series.


Try the Logitech G400. Seems to have very similar shape to zowie ec series with razer deathadder size.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteironknuckle*
> 
> The Zowie broke for me within six months and I don't mistreat my mice. Maybe it was a fluke, but that was enough to turn me off of it because it was too bare bones for what I paid.


My AM felt like the build quality was better than any of the other mice I have had. They are a little overpriced for what they are, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> So I've narrowed it down to a Zowie FK or a Roccat Savu
> 
> 1) I can buy a Savu in Canada and would have to use Ebay for the FK
> 2) Roccat has a 800 dpi step while I would have to get used to non native 1150 for FK
> 3) Roccat is a little bigger than FK, I prefer a smaller mouse
> 4) Roccat is 5g heavier, I use a Kana currently (72g) so both will seem heavy
> 5) Roccat is much cheaper
> 
> Thoughts? I am leaning towards the Savu right now but just not sure. The only real thing holding me back is it's 90g.


You can buy an FK in Canada.
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?item_id=060979


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> My AM felt like the build quality was better than any of the other mice I have had. They are a little overpriced for what they are, though.
> You can buy an FK in Canada.
> http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?item_id=060979


It's in store only and I live on the other side of the country


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Honestly, I have used a steelseries Sensi raw, and it was ok, but it just made me wonder why I was using a really expensive logitech with less buttons. Thats really the only other mouse ive used outside of my logitechs that I can honestly recommend. I have used a Cyborg MMO 7, but I cant recommend it because the sensor is a piece of garbage.


Are any of the Roccat or any other brand products worth looking at in the $50 or below range that you've heard good things about?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Are any of the Roccat or any other brand products worth looking at in the $50 or below range that you've heard good things about?


For the shape your looking for, not really. Realistically, you can find G400/s on sale for under $50. If you can't, hard to say what I would go for with what your looking for. The G100s would work, but doesnt have those side buttons that are more then handy. I mean there are things above that price range like the Steelseries Sensi RAW, but I prefered the G400 over it.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> For the shape your looking for, not really. Realistically, you can find G400/s on sale for under $50. If you can't, hard to say what I would go for with what your looking for. The G100s would work, but doesnt have those side buttons that are more then handy. I mean there are things above that price range like the Steelseries Sensi RAW, but I prefered the G400 over it.


I was looking at the Roccat lineup and the Kova[+] Max Performance seemed like it could have fit.
The Deathadder 2013 is currently going for $52 on amazon too.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 450dpi low
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? ~
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? nope
> 
> 5. What games do you play? FPS, moba
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Never used a mouse with it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Previous mice:
> - zowie ec1/2 evo even on the native setting didnt feel "right"
> - deathadder 2013 actualy found smoothing tolerable but shape issue back hump mainly cant grip it aswell as zowie white gloss
> - intelimouse 3.0 cant go back to it due to negative accel slightly too big for me.
> 
> Looking for right handed ergonomic mouse around deathadder size but with similar ergonomics to zowie ec series.


Maybe SS Rival if you like IE 3.0. The most similar shape to 3.0 I've tried of all mice I've owned, had ~20+ mice.


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Maybe SS Rival if you like IE 3.0. The most similar shape to 3.0 I've tried of all mice I've owned, had ~20+ mice.


Whats the coating like on the rival? for example i cant grip the black zowie's they are way too slippery since i have really dry hands.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> Whats the coating like on the rival? for example i cant grip the black zowie's they are way too slippery since i have really dry hands.


I have dry hands as well, the top is pretty slippery but the rubber sides are actually realy good. I can lift it very easy due to the side grips.


----------



## Halfwise

I've been trying to find a new mouse, and I keep getting stuck. Help would be greatly appreciated.
Quote:


> *1) What's my grip style?*
> Weird. I have a palm like grip, but I arch my fingers slightly off the mouse, but no where near the degree of "claw grip. I like to feel the back of the mouse in my palm, but have my wrist hit the table. I move the mouse, not by gripping it, but usually by passing it around between my fingers like a puck, or holding it by creasing my palm long ways, and moving it that way (like a pair of meditation balls).
> 
> Sorry, but i don't really know a simple way to describe my grip.
> 
> *2) What's my Sensitivity?*
> X: 4000 Y: 5600 (I believe I increased the vertical sensitivity due to a failing in my current mouse, a RAT 7, which is falling apart after only 1.5 years.)
> *
> 3) What's my maximum budget?*
> Lets say $200. I wouldn't mind saving money, however.
> *
> 4) Do you want additional buttons?*
> YES! but not a billion like the Naga, 4-6 spread around the mouse (not on the thumb). Also would not count center buttons below the mouse wheel, or right-side buttons, as I never hit them (pinky is screwy, middle finger is long).
> 
> *5) What games?*
> MMOs, RPGs, Action/Adventure.. FPS's only with RPG elements.
> 
> *6) Prediction?*
> Rather not, I use a high sensitivity anyway, and can make precise movements on my own.
> *
> 7) Other..*
> Favorites, but not necessary: Rubberized Surfaces, Metal Fixtures, Weight, all make a mouse feel nice and solid. 4.5" is as short in length as I want to go, and that's where its already starting to become uncomfortable. The same with width at 2.5". Wider seems better. I use a hardened black leather mouse pad. Wired preferrable, hate changing batteries in game.


Any thoughts? Ideas?

Ones I am currently considering:
Mad Catz MMO 7 (Though, hesitant due somewhat poor experience with Rat 7.)
Genius GX Gila (Buttons spread around is nice, worried might be too small)
Perixx Mx-3200 (one of my favorite mice was similar to the Kensington Slimblade, but not enough buttons)
Corsair Vengeance M95 (not sure I like having so many buttons around my thumb)


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halfwise*
> 
> I've been trying to find a new mouse, and I keep getting stuck. Help would be greatly appreciated.
> Any thoughts? Ideas?
> 
> Ones I am currently considering:
> Mad Catz MMO 7 (Though, hesitant due somewhat poor experience with Rat 7.)
> Genius GX Gila (Buttons spread around is nice, worried might be too small)
> Perixx Mx-3200 (one of my favorite mice was similar to the Kensington Slimblade, but not enough buttons)
> Corsair Vengeance M95 (not sure I like having so many buttons around my thumb)


MMO 7. Love the mouse to death, but the sensor is so crap its not worth it. Replaced it twice in 3 months.
Genius GX Gila. Not sure, never heard of it til now.
Perixx MX-3200. Looks cool, but also looks as though you should have gotten a Razer Diamondback when they were out. The Thermaltake 10M is similar to this.
Corsair Vengeance M95. If your a palm grip, dont bother with this one, its very much a claw/fingertip mouse.

My suggestion, take a look at the Logitech G602. Dont worry about the sensitivity being lower, its an optical mouse so you need less to get the same amount. I went from using about 4500DPI on my MMO 7 to about 1600 on my G602. All the side buttons are super easy to hit. You wont hit them by accident, so no worries there, but you know exactly which button you do hit when you want to.


----------



## A-Gen

*1. What's your grip style?*
Fingertip in most games, tends to get a little bit closer to palm (but not entirely) in relaxed windows use.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I have a Qpad CT Medium and I try to find a sensitivity where I can move edge to edge on the screen with about 3-4 inches of mouse movement.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
100-150$ maybe, could go higher for the perfect mouse.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes. I don't require a crazy amount of extra buttons like on the Naga, but more than two thumbbuttons would be an improvement over my current mouse. The dream mouse also has tilt-clicking on the scroll wheel but dreams might have to stay dreams...

*5. What games do you play?*
Guild Wars 2, Civ V, HoMM (most versions), Minecraft, Total Wars series, some old school RTS sporadically (SC, WC3, AoE2)

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
As long as it's not too much I'm ok.

*7. Other relevant information:*
Corded is a must, braiding optional. Button activation force is important, I don't like some of Razers flimsy buttons you can accidentally click by looking at it the wrong way, I want medium to heavy activation force. The shape is semi-important, I currently use a Steelseries Ikari Laser and that's the type of shape I prefer.


----------



## Blutch

1. What's your grip style?
Right now as i use the sensei its somewhat between fingertip/palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
1000-1150 no accel (as far as possible with sensei)

3. What's your maximum budget?
doesnt matter i doubt theres alot of mice over 150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons will do

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends, shooters for fun (bf stuff)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
prefer not

7. Other relevant information:
i was looking at the g400s but i read somewhere that the left to right goes farther then right to left (im really OCD)
atm i have the sensei which has a laser, im not sure if optical is better than laser ive seen some people say graphic designers use laser for the higher resolution...


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> i was looking at the g400s but i read somewhere that the left to right goes farther then right to left (im really OCD)
> atm i have the sensei which has a laser, im not sure if optical is better than laser ive seen some people say graphic designers use laser for the higher resolution...


So you refuse to buy g400s because one forum member said there was a weird bug and got proven wrong? If Sensei's sensor doesn't bother you then that said bug definitely shouldn't either, even if it was there.

Anyway, if you are coming from sensei I'd suggest picking up an EC1 or DA 3.5g (preferably not the new model, it sounds all around fishy). The shapes are close to Sensei except suit better palm and still good for fingertip.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> So you refuse to buy g400s because one forum member said there was a weird bug and got proven wrong? If Sensei's sensor doesn't bother you then that said bug definitely shouldn't either, even if it was there.
> 
> Anyway, if you are coming from sensei I'd suggest picking up an EC1 or DA 3.5g (preferably not the new model, it sounds all around fishy). The shapes are close to Sensei except suit better palm and still good for fingertip.


hi









i tried to buy the g400s today, but the stores were all out, i want to buy it nearby so i can return it

also had a feel on the DA, feels quite nice too.

also, do you think that those graphic designers were right? that because of the bigger resolution the laser mice where better?

thank you


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> hi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i tried to buy the g400s today, but the stores were all out, i want to buy it nearby so i can return it
> 
> also had a feel on the DA, feels quite nice too.
> 
> also, do you think that those graphic designers were right? that because of the bigger resolution the laser mice where better?
> 
> thank you


Hmm, well things of course depend on what you are using the mouse for. If you have 2 4k displays lined up then I can see big dpi being not useless







Apart from that, you shouldn't look at the dpi numbers much.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> Hmm, well things of course depend on what you are using the mouse for. If you have 2 4k displays lined up then I can see big dpi being not useless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from that, you shouldn't look at the dpi numbers much.


nothing to do with how sensitive (accurate) or precice the laser is? like micromovements and such?


----------



## Failuyr

How do people like the more inexpensive side of the Coolermaster lineup (Xornet, Spawn, Recon)?


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> How do people like the more inexpensive side of the Coolermaster lineup (Xornet, Spawn, Recon)?


Spawn is a very good mouse if you can get used to the shape.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

1. What's your grip style?
In between claw and finger

2. What's your sensitivity?
5 or 6 in Control Panel

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50 or so, but I can go over a bit

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 or 4 thumb buttons on the side

5. What games do you play?
Shooters mostly, some strategy

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Sounds like something I don't want

7. Other relevant information:
Must be wired

Very broad needs, right? I like my Logitech M510, but wireless mice don't work too well for shooters I have found. I want something fairly basic, but with a great sensor and sharp, clicky buttons (short travel distance I guess? Not sure how to describe that) and additional side buttons.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> In between claw and finger
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 5 or 6 in Control Panel
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $50 or so, but I can go over a bit
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 or 4 thumb buttons on the side
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Shooters mostly, some strategy
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Sounds like something I don't want
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Must be wired
> 
> Very broad needs, right? I like my Logitech M510, but wireless mice don't work too well for shooters I have found. I want something fairly basic, but with a great sensor and sharp, clicky buttons (short travel distance I guess? Not sure how to describe that) and additional side buttons.


i think deathadder would be good, for shoots and for your grip style the 2013 edition has nice side buttons and omron switches


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> Spawn is a very good mouse if you can get used to the shape.


Do you think someone with relatively small hands would be able to palm it?


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> i think deathadder would be good, for shoots and for your grip style the 2013 edition has nice side buttons and omron switches


I've heard both good and bad things about it. The good is basically what you have said, but I've seen many reviews online (Amazon, Newegg, comments here) where people have gone through one or more within a year. How durable is it if you have one, and are the buttons spongy at all? They look to be.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I've heard both good and bad things about it. The good is basically what you have said, but I've seen many reviews online (Amazon, Newegg, comments here) where people have gone through one or more within a year. How durable is it if you have one, and are the buttons spongy at all? They look to be.


i dont have one, but i think the 2013 is quite durable, it only has a little bit of smoothing most people dont notice it, the side buttons are tactile


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Do you think someone with relatively small hands would be able to palm it?


I have small hands and I can't comfortably palm it, so I don't think so. It's more of a fingertip/claw.


----------



## Tdogclint

Hey guys I'm looking to purchase my first high quality mouse this cyber weekend and need your help! Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the subject beforehand.

1. I have a very lazy palm grip if you know what I mean. My hand touches the mousepad as I move it. On second thought I think I might have more of a fingertip grip as there are only five points of pressure on the mouse, sorry.

2. I don't really know the dpis and what they correlate too but I like mice with average sensitivity

3. I want a pretty average sized mouse, not to big or too small.

4. I want a small number of additional buttons to use items in certain moba style games.

5. The game I play by far the most is League of Legends and it is very important to me to have a mouse that is good for the game.

6. I also would like a new mousepad. I have no preferences for this besides that I have about 8-9 inches of length to work with on my desk so it can't be very big. Also budget is not really an issue.

Thanks in advance for the help and hope to get some good answers!

TC


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tdogclint*
> 
> Hey guys I'm looking to purchase my first high quality mouse this cyber weekend and need your help! Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the subject beforehand.
> 
> 1. I have a very lazy palm grip if you know what I mean. My hand touches the mousepad as I move it.
> 
> 2. I don't really know the dpis and what they correlate too but I like mice with average sensitivity
> 
> 3. I want a pretty average sized mouse, not to big or too small.
> 
> 4. I want a small number of additional buttons to use items in certain moba style games.
> 
> 5. The game I play by far the most is League of Legends and it is very important to me to have a mouse that is good for the game.
> 
> 6. I also would like a new mousepad. I have no preferences for this besides that I have about 8-9 inches of length to work with on my desk so it can't be very big.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help and hope to get some good answers!
> 
> TC


zowie fk or steelseries sensei raw (you can let your hand slip off the mice and rest on the table as you said both are ambidextrous) and steelseries qck+


----------



## gizmo J

Does the Steelseries version of the Intellimouse 3.0 use the same sensor as the Microsoft one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mod-Black-Microsoft-Intellimouse-Explorer-IE3-0-Gaming-Mouse-Steelseries-/140898981531?pt=Mice&hash=item20ce3bd69b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Microsoft-Intellimouse-Explorer-IE-3-0-USB-Gaming-Mouse-Steelseries-Black-/111055814476?pt=Mice&hash=item19db713f4c


----------



## thorsteNN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> Does the Steelseries version of the Intellimouse 3.0 use the same sensor as the Microsoft one?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mod-Black-Microsoft-Intellimouse-Explorer-IE3-0-Gaming-Mouse-Steelseries-/140898981531?pt=Mice&hash=item20ce3bd69b
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Microsoft-Intellimouse-Explorer-IE-3-0-USB-Gaming-Mouse-Steelseries-Black-/111055814476?pt=Mice&hash=item19db713f4c


These are Mods.
They are not made by Steelseries.
It's just a normal Intelli 3.0 with different colour and a Steelseries Logo painted on it.


----------



## dstrk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dstrk*
> 
> I looking mouse for FPS games (CS:GO)
> 
> I use 400 / 450 dpi with 500 hz
> 
> I use fingertip grip with half of my palm touch the mouse
> 
> now use Kinzu V2 pro
> 
> mousepad in use: QCK Mass
> 
> budget below $100
> 
> currently aiming for Logitech G9X (still selling in my country *Indonesia)
> btw I'm prefer the glossy finish than rubber because of my sweaty hand / palm
> (I have hyperhirosis)
> 
> can u find the perfect mouse for me?
> thanks before


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you have small hands, the Zowie AM might be a good fit, although the sensor's a little weird. the AM has a glossy side version.
> 
> The Razer Deathadder 3.5G is better in terms of sensor than the Zowie AM (AM has a bit of a weird floaty feeling), but I'm not sure how good it would be for fingertip grip. It's not amazing if you have large hands, either.
> 
> Both mice are probably going to be better for FPS than the G9X.


I think AM is too big for my hand and my grip.. any other recommendation?


----------



## gizmo J

I heard that in competitions its illegal to use macros...

Does that mean you cant use those 2 extra buttons on the left side of mouses such as the Razer DeathAdder?

What about games such as Counter Strike or COD4?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> I heard that in competitions its illegal to use macros...
> 
> Does that mean you cant use those 2 extra buttons on the left side of mouses such as the Razer DeathAdder?
> 
> What about games such as Counter Strike or COD4?


Macro's are different to buttons. A macro can be a combination of buttons timed at certain intervals, if you program a straight up button, your fine.


----------



## gizmo J

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Macro's are different to buttons. A macro can be a combination of buttons timed at certain intervals, if you program a straight up button, your fine.


Does that mean you can use mouses like the Razer Naga?

And you can program the buttons?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> I heard that in competitions its illegal to use macros...
> 
> Does that mean you cant use those 2 extra buttons on the left side of mouses such as the Razer DeathAdder?
> 
> What about games such as Counter Strike or COD4?


You can't use macros in Counter Strike GO, from what I can tell. I had one macro set up to click as fast as possible for a while and it doesn't register any clicks in GO.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> Does that mean you can use mouses like the Razer Naga?
> 
> And you can program the buttons?


Yes you can use whatever mouse you want, as long as you don't have any of the extra buttons programmed to be macros. So basically use any basic key (a,u,3,7,g,d,.,') and you should be fine. I do think that it registers to automatically be mouse 1-9 though so I wouldnt worry too much about it.


----------



## gizmo J

I'm confused...

Aren't "Macros" just extra buttons? Or am I missing something here?

Are you saying you can use a mouse with extra buttons but you just cant "customize" the buttons?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> I'm confused...
> 
> Aren't "Macros" just extra buttons? Or am I missing something here?
> 
> Are you saying you can use a mouse with extra buttons but you just cant "customize" the buttons?


Sort of
Macro's are the multi-button/multi-button + delay functions. I think.


----------



## Atavax

google does a good job defining what a macro is "a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task."

i would think every competitive league would let you bind keys, but most probably don't let macro's. But i don't know for sure. So you could bind a key on the mouse to a specific action, but you can't bind a key and have it do multiple actions basically. you can bind a key on the mouse to f. You can't bind a key on your mouse so that you press it once and it keeps doing f over and over again. Or for example, i have a key bound in TF2 where if i press it, it says in all talk "Jesus loves me this i know, for the bible tells me so". that would be banned in some comp leagues.


----------



## gizmo J

So what your saying is, in competition I can use a mouse such as the Razer Naga and I can set the extra buttons to any key I want,

but I cant program any keys to make "combinations"?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> So what your saying is, in competition I can use a mouse such as the Razer Naga and I can set the extra buttons to any key I want,
> 
> but I cant program any keys to make "combinations"?


i think so. i obviously haven't played in every competitive league, but i can't imagine them not allowing you to bind a naga key to spacebar or k or whatever. What they want prevent is like, if you press only 1 button and it does multiple things where you could be at an advantage because someone else might have to press 10 keys to do something, and you might only have to press 1 because of a macro you wrote. Or with a macro you could have your mouse click the lmb 200 times in 1 sec, so if there is like a semi automatic weapon that fires as quickly as you click, you could use a macro to make it fire faster than any human could do without a macro.


----------



## woll3

^this
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> So what your saying is, in competition I can use a mouse such as the Razer Naga and I can set the extra buttons to any key I want,


Yes, because thats just binding, not a macro.


----------



## dioxholster

which is better? logitech G602 or G700s?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> which is better? logitech G602 or G700s?


I would get a G602 if wireless operation were warranted.


----------



## dioxholster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I would get a G602 if wireless operation were warranted.


im a bit of a palm and fingertip kinda of mouse user, what would be best for me? im never a claw though. G602 seemed great up until the lack of recharge, i dont want to be changing batteries ever so often. And im not sure if it stores preferences in built in memory or not, i think that would be good to not rely on software.


----------



## Halfwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> MMO 7. Love the mouse to death, but the sensor is so crap its not worth it. Replaced it twice in 3 months.
> Genius GX Gila. Not sure, never heard of it til now.
> Perixx MX-3200. Looks cool, but also looks as though you should have gotten a Razer Diamondback when they were out. The Thermaltake 10M is similar to this.
> Corsair Vengeance M95. If your a palm grip, dont bother with this one, its very much a claw/fingertip mouse.
> 
> My suggestion, take a look at the Logitech G602. Dont worry about the sensitivity being lower, its an optical mouse so you need less to get the same amount. I went from using about 4500DPI on my MMO 7 to about 1600 on my G602. All the side buttons are super easy to hit. You wont hit them by accident, so no worries there, but you know exactly which button you do hit when you want to.


Thx for the suggestion...sorry for the delay. Tis' the season and all that. After about 4 hours of driving, got my hands on a Gila, and decided to go with it...so far, no issues, and all the buttons are easy to reach,


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> im a bit of a palm and fingertip kinda of mouse user, what would be best for me? im never a claw though. G602 seemed great up until the lack of recharge, i dont want to be changing batteries ever so often. And im not sure if it stores preferences in built in memory or not, i think that would be good to not rely on software.


You will like the G602. I personally own one and the battery thing isnt really an issue. They last so long, you might change them once a month. Ive had mine for 2 weeks and the battery's are barely at 85% so you can expect that kind of battery life as well.

As for shape, Im the same sort of grip as you except im 90%palm 10%claw. Mouse is super comfy.

Im fairly certain it has on-board storage (I can double check when I get home if you like)


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I would get a G602 if wireless operation were warranted.


What do you mean, if it were warrented?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> What do you mean, if it were warrented?


I prefer wired mice, but if someone wants or needs wireless mice, wireless operation would then be warranted.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I prefer wired mice, but if someone wants or needs wireless mice, wireless operation would then be warranted.


I think your using the word, warranted, wrong (either that or Im not remembering what that means). Your making it sound like if someone doesn't absolutely *need* to use a wireless mouse, then they shouldn't.
Not tryin to rag on you, thats just what your making it sound like.


----------



## NucNuc

Hi folks 
I'm quite desperate on my search for a good mouse and that's my story about it.
Top attributes looked for :
- suitable size. My hand measures 20 cm in lenght and 11.5 cm in width measured as in the pic below

- thumb buttons atleast partially in vertival orientation

1. Grip style
mixture of palm grip and fingertip: it "rests"its back against my palm while moved mostly by fingers, about 95% of time NO movement of the hand beside "angle-movements in the wrist.

2. Sensitivity
atm between 2400 and 3200 dpi, depending on game and possible settings of mouse sensitivity of the game.

3. Budget (have to change it in USD)
about 100 $, if it really fits but no objections on getting something more economical.









4. Additional buttons
YEEESS (see point 7)

5. What games
space sims (Freelancer and mods, complete X-series by EGOSOFT, Freespace2 OpenSource mods), plan on getting all the new sims in the pipeline : X-Rebirth (already released), Frontier Elite (I'm a supporter), Chris Roberts StarCitizen (not supported by me, not sure if he really finish it [remember Freelancer?]).

6. Prediction
sry, don't know, what you mean

7. Others
want/need at least 4 thumb buttons that are NOT placed in a horizontal line (see below), everythingelse : not too important

My "HID" history:

Since I come from space-FLYING-sims (SiniStar, StarLancer, Decent II, Freespace, X-extended, etc.) flightsticks were my concern for gaming. Everything else i did with my beloved logitech trackballs with the cordless trackman fx being my alltime favorite.

Had no probs with it playing SimCity, all the Civilazation games, even manged to play Homeworld I with fun. But then came FREELANCER and its f*****g mouse control. EGOSOFT unfortunatly jumped on this wagon with X3 and joystick-controlable games almost vanished (so I had to stick too the "old" ones







).
I tried a lot of mice. None really felt better than my trackball until ... ebay "gifted" me a

Genius Wireless Optical mouse
with its thumbbuttons placed above each other than in a horizontal line like almost everybody else (and they still do so, like the lemmings). It's so much more ergonomic than having them in a row. Why ? Easy: you only have to use ONE joint moving your thumb up-n-down, while you have to use TWO joint to move it back-n-forward. I don't understand why this concept is used sooo rarely.
Suddenly using a mouse could be ... FUN ! For more comfort I "pimped" it a bit (what I mean with that you might see later). But in due time its 800 dpi weren't enough anymore, and I was abit harrased by the continous battery changing (in my eyes biggst issue with all of the wireless bunch), since it started malfunctioning when low on power, quite disturbing while you're online in a grand melee (i.e. Freelancer)







. Also I looked for something with more buttons/gamefunctions on it.

So I came across the cyborg gaming mouse.
First I was quite dissapointed with it, unusual feel of clicking and MUCH too shallow, MUCH too narrow for my paws and I skipped it. After trying various others I switched to a microsoft sidewinder with its sturdy buttons - again - ABOVE each other, but quite late, since it took "some time" to get it in a proper pricerange via ebay. But it lacks the desired higher number of thumbuttons as well as a proper/free button-programming ability.
Seeing all the MadCatz Rats I remembered my Cyborg mouse - and started to "pimp" it to my ergonomics.

I would call it now rather a GOLEM.
But now - it`s almost a perfect fit. The Back/forward buttons, the silveries at an angle, are easy and comfortable to reach, well distinguishable as well as the lower thumbutton. Even if the "thumbutton panel" with its 4way-button is still a bit shallow its down and back function are easy to use for me, what makes it 5 freely programmable/macroable thumb buttons to my disposion.
It has its drawbacks - beside the look. The scrollwheel's a bit narrow/small and the scrollbutton to easily activated unwanted, as well as esp. the leftclick (was so already before I pimped it). And I start to get a feeling, that the sensor and/or its electronics are - slowly - degrading (get sometimes sudden cursor-jumps or unintended cursor moves across the whole screen, short moments of no-reaction on moving as well on button response).

I've tested so far :

Corsair M90
GREAT design, perfect surface feeling, almost perfect layout of thumb buttons, fantastic balanced clickpoints of left/right mouse button, for me a bit too short/small otherwise (would have been something to be easily "pimped").
BUT the click for the thumb buttons and this was its killer for me : FUUULL CATASTROPHY, too much force needed, almost no answer, it was like sqeezing a rubber ball. Don't know, if that was changed with the M95, think it only got a different/new sensor.
But if anyone, who has tested/played both- M90 as well as M95 - could confirm, that also the thumbuttons mechanics are changed I might give the M95 a shot.

Logitech 700
maaan I'm dissapointed. Isn't logitech rendered as a "high quality topnotch" maker for peripherals ?? For my use too small in lenght and width, at least best height I've tested yet. The running time without cabel: crap (but who really needs wireless for a gaming mouse). Beside left/right click all bottons also quite "wobbly", baad feedback (ok, got a used one, but then: quality ?) and positioning of the thumbottons: soso, the M90s definitly way better on that.

Steelseries WoW mouse
the pinkyrest's not long enough my pinky still rubs over the mousepad, body is - again - a wee bit too short and esp. not wide enough for being comfortable to my hand. The "4d-thumbbutton is a bit too small so that I sometimes activate an unwanted key. Also their clickpoint - as well of the left/rightclick - is a bit too "easy".

R.A.T. 7 M.M.O
Even without any additional weight too heavy/weight badly placed for my taste to lift it comfortably, have to tilt it over the lower edge of the pinkyrest. The pinky/ringfinger rest: uncomfortable with its backside edge (should be "filled" somehow) and no go "grip" on it. Too shallow for my hands even with the "bigger" palm rest it comes with. Thumb buttons a whee bit to hard to click but that's ok, no unwanted keyactivation.

Steelseries WoW Cataclysm
That one I'm actualy testing: GOOD body design, almost perfect size, thumbottons mainly in a horizontal row (not so fond of) and also quite (too ?) easily/unwanted activated as well as the left/rightclick (same as WoW mouse).

Well, that's it. Rather lenghty, eh ? But you asked for as detailed information as possible.

Now, anyone with a suggestion ?


----------



## lambdax

Hi all








I'm looking for a suggestion about mouse + mousepad

1. What's your grip style?
Claw Grip
2. What's your sensitivity?
Med/high
3. What's your maximum budget?
dun know
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 if possible right side
5. What games do you play?
Bf3 tf2 ac4 wow and others
6. Do you mind about prediction?
No
7. Other relevant information:
wired mouse pliz

Mousepad

7. Hard or cloth?
Cloth
8. Rough or smooth?
Smooth
9. Which size approximately?
small (the one i am using now is 215x245 mm)
10. What's your maximum budget?
dun know

Thanks!!









p.s. i have a question too: steelseries sensei (raw) & steelseries qck mini works well altogether? (some says yes some says no i'm confused :V)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NucNuc*
> 
> Hi folks
> I'm quite desperate on my search for a good mouse and that's my story about it.
> Top attributes looked for :
> - suitable size. My hand measures 20 cm in lenght and 11.5 cm in width measured as in the pic below
> 
> - thumb buttons atleast partially in vertival orientation
> 
> 1. Grip style
> mixture of palm grip and fingertip: it "rests"its back against my palm while moved mostly by fingers, about 95% of time NO movement of the hand beside "angle-movements in the wrist.
> 
> 2. Sensitivity
> atm between 2400 and 3200 dpi, depending on game and possible settings of mouse sensitivity of the game.
> 
> 3. Budget (have to change it in USD)
> about 100 $, if it really fits but no objections on getting something more economical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Additional buttons
> YEEESS (see point 7)
> 
> 5. What games
> space sims (Freelancer and mods, complete X-series by EGOSOFT, Freespace2 OpenSource mods), plan on getting all the new sims in the pipeline : X-Rebirth (already released), Frontier Elite (I'm a supporter), Chris Roberts StarCitizen (not supported by me, not sure if he really finish it [remember Freelancer?]).
> 
> 6. Prediction
> sry, don't know, what you mean
> 
> 7. Others
> want/need at least 4 thumb buttons that are NOT placed in a horizontal line (see below), everythingelse : not too important
> 
> My "HID" history:
> 
> Since I come from space-FLYING-sims (SiniStar, StarLancer, Decent II, Freespace, X-extended, etc.) flightsticks were my concern for gaming. Everything else i did with my beloved logitech trackballs with the cordless trackman fx being my alltime favorite.
> 
> Had no probs with it playing SimCity, all the Civilazation games, even manged to play Homeworld I with fun. But then came FREELANCER and its f*****g mouse control. EGOSOFT unfortunatly jumped on this wagon with X3 and joystick-controlable games almost vanished (so I had to stick too the "old" ones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> I tried a lot of mice. None really felt better than my trackball until ... ebay "gifted" me a
> 
> Genius Wireless Optical mouse
> with its thumbbuttons placed above each other than in a horizontal line like almost everybody else (and they still do so, like the lemmings). It's so much more ergonomic than having them in a row. Why ? Easy: you only have to use ONE joint moving your thumb up-n-down, while you have to use TWO joint to move it back-n-forward. I don't understand why this concept is used sooo rarely.
> Suddenly using a mouse could be ... FUN ! For more comfort I "pimped" it a bit (what I mean with that you might see later). But in due time its 800 dpi weren't enough anymore, and I was abit harrased by the continous battery changing (in my eyes biggst issue with all of the wireless bunch), since it started malfunctioning when low on power, quite disturbing while you're online in a grand melee (i.e. Freelancer)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Also I looked for something with more buttons/gamefunctions on it.
> 
> So I came across the cyborg gaming mouse.
> First I was quite dissapointed with it, unusual feel of clicking and MUCH too shallow, MUCH too narrow for my paws and I skipped it. After trying various others I switched to a microsoft sidewinder with its sturdy buttons - again - ABOVE each other, but quite late, since it took "some time" to get it in a proper pricerange via ebay. But it lacks the desired higher number of thumbuttons as well as a proper/free button-programming ability.
> Seeing all the MadCatz Rats I remembered my Cyborg mouse - and started to "pimp" it to my ergonomics.
> 
> I would call it now rather a GOLEM.
> But now - it`s almost a perfect fit. The Back/forward buttons, the silveries at an angle, are easy and comfortable to reach, well distinguishable as well as the lower thumbutton. Even if the "thumbutton panel" with its 4way-button is still a bit shallow its down and back function are easy to use for me, what makes it 5 freely programmable/macroable thumb buttons to my disposion.
> It has its drawbacks - beside the look. The scrollwheel's a bit narrow/small and the scrollbutton to easily activated unwanted, as well as esp. the leftclick (was so already before I pimped it). And I start to get a feeling, that the sensor and/or its electronics are - slowly - degrading (get sometimes sudden cursor-jumps or unintended cursor moves across the whole screen, short moments of no-reaction on moving as well on button response).
> 
> I've tested so far :
> 
> Corsair M90
> GREAT design, perfect surface feeling, almost perfect layout of thumb buttons, fantastic balanced clickpoints of left/right mouse button, for me a bit too short/small otherwise (would have been something to be easily "pimped").
> BUT the click for the thumb buttons and this was its killer for me : FUUULL CATASTROPHY, too much force needed, almost no answer, it was like sqeezing a rubber ball. Don't know, if that was changed with the M95, think it only got a different/new sensor.
> But if anyone, who has tested/played both- M90 as well as M95 - could confirm, that also the thumbuttons mechanics are changed I might give the M95 a shot.
> 
> Logitech 700
> maaan I'm dissapointed. Isn't logitech rendered as a "high quality topnotch" maker for peripherals ?? For my use too small in lenght and width, at least best height I've tested yet. The running time without cabel: crap (but who really needs wireless for a gaming mouse). Beside left/right click all bottons also quite "wobbly", baad feedback (ok, got a used one, but then: quality ?) and positioning of the thumbottons: soso, the M90s definitly way better on that.
> 
> Steelseries WoW mouse
> the pinkyrest's not long enough my pinky still rubs over the mousepad, body is - again - a wee bit too short and esp. not wide enough for being comfortable to my hand. The "4d-thumbbutton is a bit too small so that I sometimes activate an unwanted key. Also their clickpoint - as well of the left/rightclick - is a bit too "easy".
> 
> R.A.T. 7 M.M.O
> Even without any additional weight too heavy/weight badly placed for my taste to lift it comfortably, have to tilt it over the lower edge of the pinkyrest. The pinky/ringfinger rest: uncomfortable with its backside edge (should be "filled" somehow) and no go "grip" on it. Too shallow for my hands even with the "bigger" palm rest it comes with. Thumb buttons a whee bit to hard to click but that's ok, no unwanted keyactivation.
> 
> Steelseries WoW Cataclysm
> That one I'm actualy testing: GOOD body design, almost perfect size, thumbottons mainly in a horizontal row (not so fond of) and also quite (too ?) easily/unwanted activated as well as the left/rightclick (same as WoW mouse).
> 
> Well, that's it. Rather lenghty, eh ? But you asked for as detailed information as possible.
> 
> Now, anyone with a suggestion ?






You could try out the Razer Deathadder 3.5G or 4G (4G has noticeable amount of smoothing, but it probably doesn't matter if you're not playing FPS)

The Zowie EC1 Evo is a similar shape but less curved on the edges. It's also pretty good. The buttons are very hard and the lift off distance is very low.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> Hi Art, any ideas on my post?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> G400 is pretty good if you want to palm grip I guess.
> 
> I'm not sure how much your mouse really matters if you're mainly playing LoL.


I like the G400 mostly, it's a bit big (long) though. Any smaller options? Also, my grip is actually probably closer to fingertip, they seem to do most of the movement at least, now that I'm paying attention...


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> I like the G400 mostly, it's a bit big (long) though. Any smaller options? Also, my grip is actually probably closer to fingertip, they seem to do most of the movement at least, now that I'm paying attention...


Now I don't know what you wrote in your first post but if you like fingertip maybe G100s?


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Now I don't know what you wrote in your first post but if you like fingertip maybe G100s?


Yeah, just noticed that, I'll repost and make the change I mentioned:

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/palm (palm touches, but most movement seems to come from the fingertips)

2. What's your sensitivity? medium/medium-high

3. What's your maximum budget? preferably no more than ~50, could go a little higher for quality. Definitely no more than $100.

4. Do you want additional buttons? Sure, but not too many. My current mouse (logitech m705) is fine for me, but the left mouse button is dying.

5. What games do you play? League of Legends mostly lately. Lots of web browsing and a variety of other games from time to time.

6. Do you mind about prediction? No idea, never really noticed it. I imagine it would be jarring if this were present and obvious on the mouse. I guess I'd rather avoid it.

7. Other relevant information: I don't want anything ridiculously heavy, but some weight feels nice. I don't need anything totally amazing, just looking for something that works well for me and is comfortable/high quality.


----------



## fomoz

Hi guys, I need a mouse to replace my G500 that I use at home so that I can bring it to work to replace my G5. I work on 4 screens, so 2000 dpi isn't enough.

*1. What's your grip style?*

Claw.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

800 to 4000 dpi (3x1440p screens at home), usually playing games at 1600 or 2400 DPI (I use 5 settings total: 800, 1600, 2400, 3200, 4000). This is very important for me.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

No maximum.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

I want two or three thumb buttons (not more) and preferably dedicated DPI buttons with an indicator like on my G500.

*5. What games do you play?*

FPS, RPG, RTS.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't want prediction.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I'm happy with my G500, but I would like to see what else is out there. I use a SteelSeries 4D mousepad.

I don't need anything too high tech or gimmicky and I'm not a fan of those transformer-looking mice. I don't mind paying more to get the best. I would prefer a laser sensor, but in the end I just want the best tracking.

I've been looking at the DeathAdder 2013, but I don't like that it doesn't have dedicated DPI buttons and a DPI indicator. I also think it's getting replaced because it's on sale at most stores and shows as discontinued at Newegg.ca.

Thanks!


----------



## MoPs

1. What's your grip style?
finger (with some palm)

2. What's your sensitivity?
medium/high
i use small pad(22cm horizontally), and i like to be able to turn arround 360 with one sweep, i can sweep windows screen twice with current sensitivity.

3. What's your maximum budget?
70dlls

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes, for thumb

5. What games do you play?
fps (arma2) , and lol

6. Do you mind about prediction?
yes, i think it wont be good for arma2

7. Other relevant information:
i am using microsoft 1.1a, pretty happy with it, but i want something better
light or medium weight
hand dimention : 10.6cm , 18.5cm
i think the g400 or some mionix might do the trick, but i would like some recommendations


----------



## esoterikk

So I'm looking for something to replace the Kana after failing to enjoy the spawn shape. I don't like the switches or the massive side button the Kana but I do enjoy how light and small it is. My ideal mouse would be a similar shape to the Kana but without massive side buttons(I do want some side buttons), similar weight (under 90g) but with much better switches (the TTC on the Kana feel like I am pressing on muddy cement) and similar small size ( I own a sensei and it's too big for my hand).

I use fingertip and 800 dpi. Have been considering Zowie FK or Roccat Savu but I hear bad things about Savu and I don't know about the shape.

I should add that I love how short the spawn is but it's too wide, so a shorter skinnier mouse similiar to the spawn would be great too.


----------



## Tacoboy

I'm currently using a Logitech MX1000 wireless mouse, which is not really working at 100%, so I'm looking at replacing it with a corded mouse, prefer laser, do not need a lot of buttons, something as big as the MX1000, or maybe even a little larger then the MX1000, have not really set a budget.

Are there preferred brands in mice or brands that not considered reliable?
Anyone want to throw out ideas?


----------



## MoPs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoPs*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> finger (with some palm)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> medium/high
> i use small pad(22cm horizontally), and i like to be able to turn arround 360 with one sweep, i can sweep windows screen twice with current sensitivity.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 70dlls
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes, for thumb
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> fps (arma2) , and lol
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> yes, i think it wont be good for arma2
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i am using microsoft 1.1a, pretty happy with it, but i want something better
> light or medium weight
> hand dimention : 10.6cm , 18.5cm
> i think the g400 or some mionix might do the trick, but i would like some recommendations


plz i need an answer asap
i am from argentina and my cousin qill be at usa this weekend and i need the answer for him to buy it.


----------



## Sikairus

How does the CM Storm Recon do with tracking? Anyone have any problems with it? The spawn seems too small for my hands and I'm worried about the RAT 3's quality.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sikairus*
> 
> How does the CM Storm Recon do with tracking? Anyone have any problems with it? The spawn seems too small for my hands and I'm worried about the RAT 3's quality.


I read reports of "pixel walking", which is inaccurate tracking at low speed movement.


----------



## NucNuc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> You could try out the Razer Deathadder 3.5G or 4G (4G has noticeable amount of smoothing, but it probably doesn't matter if you're not playing FPS)
> 
> The Zowie EC1 Evo is a similar shape but less curved on the edges. It's also pretty good. The buttons are very hard and the lift off distance is very low.


Ty for your input. I've read and heared only good about esp. the Deathadders.
But - unfortunatly - they have only 2 thumbbuttons, which are also horizontally arranged, aka "standard layout", which I want to avaoid.

The only Razer product, that "suits" my wants of bottons, their arrangement and the overall adjustability would be the "*Ouruboros*", that - as far as I've read the reviews, also - esp. by users







hasn't got a good reputation.

The *Naga*s - well I tried the *2013 edition*s at a local store :
they are *definitly* too *small* for my hand (would need also a "mayor pimping"







[see my first post here #1562]), even though the thumb button arragenment of the "Hex" is quite good. Due to its size the "Epic"s thumb buttons are mostly unsuable for me.

I've read, that the *2014 edition*, at least of the Epic - dunno if there will be also a Hex - is somewhat bigger.







Does anybody knows, if there is a "real" difference, or is it only "marginal" ?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoPs*
> 
> plz i need an answer asap
> i am from argentina and my cousin qill be at usa this weekend and i need the answer for him to buy it.


G400 would not be good for fingertip, it's big and heavy.

SS Kana V2
Zowie EC2 eVo, AM, FK
Roccat Savu, Kone Optical

Maybe one of these would suit you better.


----------



## tech99

I am currently on the lookout for a new mouse since my G400 died yesterday. It was a pretty good mouse for me so most probably I will buy a G400S.

I am satisfied with its performance, however, it didn't quite have the feeling like it 'fits-like-a-glove' that Imperator and G500 had. Those two used to fit perfectly into my hand. Only issue with those two mouse were Twin-Eye Sensor (imperator) and the placement of sensor in G500 for which sometimes it didn't have the precision that I desired.

I tried to use a palm grip on the G400 and only then it fits perfectly. But since I use a hybrid grip.. my wrist started to ache.







So that was the end of the experiment.

Is there any mouse in the market right now which has similar shape to G500/Imperator with a reliable tracking like G400? I know it sounds like best of both worlds but if I could one then that would very nice.

Grip Type: Hybrid.


----------



## Shingyboy

*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw/Fingertip
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
I mainly use 2000 dpi when doing normal things like browsing the web and such and depending on how sensitive the game is I will drop the sensitivity slider in the game or drop the dpi to something like 800 if I can't get the sensitivity right. More often than not it is usually fine at 2000 dpi though.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Not sure if I really have one, I do not mind spending up to £70 if it is necessary
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't really mind, they are nice though but not essential they should have at least thumb buttons right?
*5. What games do you play?*
FPS, RPGs, RTS you name it I play it all. At the moment I am playing a lot of League of Legends that is my most consistent game but I jump back and forth depending on what my friends play.
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I have tried to read up on this and I am still not sure what it is, if you could explain this to me in laymens terms that would be great
*7. Other relevant information:*
I do not want anything from Razer as I have had reliability problems with both mice and headsets from them, regardless of how good they may be.

Currently I own a Logitech G500 and I think it may have been the wrong choice for me, don't get me wrong it is a good mouse that has served me well but I find myself Claw/Fingertip gripping it more than I palm grip it and I get the feeling that this is not a Claw grip mouse anyway. Basically I want to ask more than anything since I am Claw gripping the G500 am I basically going it horrendously wrong?
So I was thinking it was perhaps time for an uprade to a mouse that might be more suitable, it all depends as the G500 I am using is perfectly fine and I have no problems.
One more thing that I would like to add is that I do not think I have large hands, I am not sure if that really means anything but I am not sure what constitutes as medium or large hands in the first place so I do not really know what mice in that regard I should be looking for either.

The 3 mice I was thinking of getting but I am not sure about were the Corsair M65, Cyborg R.A.T 7 or the Roccat Kone XTD. Now again it looks to be like the Roccat Kone XTD might be the wrong choice again but I am not sure, it is another palm mouse right? I mean I really like the look of the Kone XTD which is again why I wanted to see what people thought.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shingyboy*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Claw/Fingertip
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> I mainly use 2000 dpi when doing normal things like browsing the web and such and depending on how sensitive the game is I will drop the sensitivity slider in the game or drop the dpi to something like 800 if I can't get the sensitivity right. More often than not it is usually fine at 2000 dpi though.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> Not sure if I really have one, I do not mind spending up to £70 if it is necessary
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> I don't really mind, they are nice though but not essential they should have at least thumb buttons right?
> *5. What games do you play?*
> FPS, RPGs, RTS you name it I play it all. At the moment I am playing a lot of League of Legends that is my most consistent game but I jump back and forth depending on what my friends play.
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I have tried to read up on this and I am still not sure what it is, if you could explain this to me in laymens terms that would be great
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I do not want anything from Razer as I have had reliability problems with both mice and headsets from them, regardless of how good they may be.
> 
> Currently I own a Logitech G500 and I think it may have been the wrong choice for me, don't get me wrong it is a good mouse that has served me well but I find myself Claw/Fingertip gripping it more than I palm grip it and I get the feeling that this is not a Claw grip mouse anyway. Basically I want to ask more than anything since I am Claw gripping the G500 am I basically going it horrendously wrong?
> So I was thinking it was perhaps time for an uprade to a mouse that might be more suitable, it all depends as the G500 I am using is perfectly fine and I have no problems.
> One more thing that I would like to add is that I do not think I have large hands, I am not sure if that really means anything but I am not sure what constitutes as medium or large hands in the first place so I do not really know what mice in that regard I should be looking for either.
> 
> The 3 mice I was thinking of getting but I am not sure about were the Corsair M65, Cyborg R.A.T 7 or the Roccat Kone XTD. Now again it looks to be like the Roccat Kone XTD might be the wrong choice again but I am not sure, it is another palm mouse right? I mean I really like the look of the Kone XTD which is again why I wanted to see what people thought.


Out of those three mice, the RAT is a bad choice, especially for you. Not only is the sensor crap, but its a palm grip mouse, like all Logitech's (except for the G600 and G300). The Corsair M65 is a great choice for fingertip, well built, backed by Corsair's ironclad warrenty. Never used the Kone, so I can't help you there but I have used both of the others you mentioned.
Also take a look at, if they still have any anywhere, the Razer Diamondback. Its the only Razer product I would ever recommend, except for their mousepads which are excellent.


----------



## MoPs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> G400 would not be good for fingertip, it's big and heavy.
> 
> SS Kana V2
> Zowie EC2 eVo, AM, FK
> Roccat Savu, Kone Optical
> 
> Maybe one of these would suit you better.


first of all THANKS.
i think i might change my grip, i think that something with the shape of mionix 8200/5000 will fit me. while using my 1.1a i find mi two right fingers sometimes getting in the way between the padd and the mouse. is there any mouse that has a similar shape(to the mionix 5000/8200), good build quality, decent (not excelent) sensor but chepaer? (i know there is no perfect mouse for 50dlls, thats why what i would give up is some sensor capacity)
with that shape i liked the savu, but ive read after a few months the antigrip coat wears off, and i will be really pissed when that starts to happen.

ps: i think it would be usefull for noobs like me if you could make a summary table listing decent mouses with their grip style, and maybe include some pros or cons. i think it will also help you







(i know there is a sticky where there is some kind of pole for the best mice, but atm mionix5000 is winning with 5/5 and from what ive read it has some sensor problems, so i dont know how much i can trust that pole)


----------



## Shingyboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Out of those three mice, the RAT is a bad choice, especially for you. Not only is the sensor crap, but its a palm grip mouse, like all Logitech's (except for the G600 and G300). The Corsair M65 is a great choice for fingertip, well built, backed by Corsair's ironclad warrenty. Never used the Kone, so I can't help you there but I have used both of the others you mentioned.
> Also take a look at, if they still have any anywhere, the Razer Diamondback. Its the only Razer product I would ever recommend, except for their mousepads which are excellent.


Are all R.A.T mice all with the same sensor that is crap? Hmm I might consider it but I really do not like Razer products as they break down on me.

Okay other than the ones I have suggested do you have any suggestions for me? other than that Razer mice.


----------



## Zawafuji

Hi, I'm currently using a Revoltec Fightmouse Elite, but I don't really like it because it feels too small and 'weird' overall.
I keep adjusting my grip and it never quite fits my palm.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently 1800, but I used to play on 1600

3. What's your maximum budget?
About 60 dollars

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 on the side would be nice

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2, Battlefield 4, CS:GO, osu!, Civilization V

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes.
I want a 'flawless' sensor

7. Other relevant information:
I'm right-handed and I want the mouse to be pretty big (Definitely bigger than my current mouse)
I also have bad experience using Razer products so I'd rather stay away from that if possible (Unless the mouse is literally perfect)


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zawafuji*
> 
> Hi, I'm currently using a Revoltec Fightmouse Elite, but I don't really like it because it feels too small and 'weird' overall.
> I keep adjusting my grip and it never quite fits my palm.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Currently 1800, but I used to play on 1600
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> About 60 dollars
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 on the side would be nice
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota 2, Battlefield 4, CS:GO, osu!, Civilization V
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes.
> I want a 'flawless' sensor
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'm right-handed and I want the mouse to be pretty big (Definitely bigger than my current mouse)
> I also have bad experience using Razer products so I'd rather stay away from that if possible (Unless the mouse is literally perfect)


The Logitech G602 and G400 both have the same, IMO "flawless" sensor. Great optical mice, I went from 4200 on a lazer to 1100 on an optical. Either one would suite you very well.









And here come the army of deathadder fanboys....... now.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> Yeah, just noticed that, I'll repost and make the change I mentioned:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/palm (palm touches, but most movement seems to come from the fingertips)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? medium/medium-high
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? preferably no more than ~50, could go a little higher for quality. Definitely no more than $100.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Sure, but not too many. My current mouse (logitech m705) is fine for me, but the left mouse button is dying.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends mostly lately. Lots of web browsing and a variety of other games from time to time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? No idea, never really noticed it. I imagine it would be jarring if this were present and obvious on the mouse. I guess I'd rather avoid it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I don't want anything ridiculously heavy, but some weight feels nice. I don't need anything totally amazing, just looking for something that works well for me and is comfortable/high quality. Nothing too big either, smallish hands


help?


----------



## tech99

So no suggestions for a mouse with shape of a G500/Imperator and a reliable tracking performance like that of G400?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> So no suggestions for a mouse with shape of a G500/Imperator and a reliable tracking performance like that of G400?


i don't know, those look pretty different ergonomically to me....

how does this look? http://mionix.net/products/naos-7000/


----------



## tech99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i don't know, those look pretty different ergonomically to me....
> 
> how does this look? http://mionix.net/products/naos-7000/


Looks quite comfy to me. Any idea about it's tracking performance?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> Looks quite comfy to me. Any idea about it's tracking performance?


its supposed to be the same as the Avior 7000 with just different ergonomics.

both the Aviors and the Naos 7000 are very new, i don't think either are available in NA yet which also means the reviews are fairly limited. They use a 3310 sensor, which has been getting pretty favorable reviews in other mice, and the one review i've actually seen for the Avior has been overwhelmingly positive.


----------



## QhyQhy

hello

1. What's your grip style?
claw/finger, not much palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
don't know! Not using dedicated driver

3. What's your maximum budget?
80$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 on thumb

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?

if MX518 have it, I don't know of to feel with no prediction

7. Other relevant information:

right handed and currently on MX518! I want mousewheel well serrated (the mouse wheel of G500S is a deal breaker for me...)! wire only! matt finish better than glossy! never use mousepad

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QhyQhy*
> 
> hello
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> claw/finger, not much palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> don't know! Not using dedicated driver
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 80$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 on thumb
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> if MX518 have it, I don't know of to feel with no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> right handed and currently on MX518! I want mousewheel well serrated (the mouse wheel of G500S is a deal breaker for me...)! wire only! matt finish better than glossy! never use mousepad
> 
> Thanks


If you like the MX518, buy a G400. I have both and they seem to be pretty similar to eachother, apart from prediction. The G400's rubber coating also seems to be less slimy and the matte plastic shell is better.

If you're playing FPS games, the G400 is one of the best that there is. The Razer Deathadder and Roccat Savu are also equally good.


----------



## QhyQhy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you like the MX518, buy a G400. I have both and they seem to be pretty similar to eachother, apart from prediction. The G400's rubber coating also seems to be less slimy and the matte plastic shell is better.
> 
> If you're playing FPS games, the G400 is one of the best that there is. The Razer Deathadder and Roccat Savu are also equally good.


I dislike mouse with shape like this

http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/razer_deathadder_1.jpg

not a big fan of Razer's shape

I read than the G400 is better than G400S !

I was thinking to this one:

http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00DHAD3JU/ref=asc_df_B00DHAD3JU16240174?smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&tag=clubic-rt-pc-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22790&creativeASIN=B00DHAD3JU

the savu isn't a cheap model?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QhyQhy*
> 
> I dislike mouse with shape like this
> 
> http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/razer_deathadder_1.jpg
> 
> not a big fan of Razer's shape
> 
> I read than the G400 is better than G400S !
> 
> I was thinking to this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00DHAD3JU/ref=asc_df_B00DHAD3JU16240174?smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&tag=clubic-rt-pc-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22790&creativeASIN=B00DHAD3JU
> 
> the savu isn't a cheap model?


Razer's shape is really weird, and I can't use it either. If the edges weren't concave, it would be fine, though.

I'd recommend that you get the G400 over the G400S. I would just stick to the tried and tested G400, in case the 4000 DPI version of the sensor on the G400s has more lag or smoothing.

the Kone Pure Optical is good, from what I've heard.


----------



## tech99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> its supposed to be the same as the Avior 7000 with just different ergonomics.
> 
> both the Aviors and the Naos 7000 are very new, i don't think either are available in NA yet which also means the reviews are fairly limited. They use a 3310 sensor, which has been getting pretty favorable reviews in other mice, and the one review i've actually seen for the Avior has been overwhelmingly positive.


Thanks. I'll look around and see what people have to say about this mouse.


----------



## Overhaze

Here is a picture of my fingertip grip with my Sensai. As you can see my thumb ring and little finger are all perfectly placed on their respective buttons but I can't get at that fourth button without shifting my grip. Any suggestions for a replacement?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overhaze*
> 
> Here is a picture of my fingertip grip with my Sensai. As you can see my thumb ring and little finger are all perfectly placed on their respective buttons but I can't get at that fourth button without shifting my grip. Any suggestions for a replacement?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


why do you need a replacement?

The Zowie AM is an excellent fingertip grip mouse. Very light and easy to grip.


----------



## Overhaze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> why do you need a replacement?
> 
> The Zowie AM is an excellent fingertip grip mouse. Very light and easy to grip.


I've had it two years now and in my experience thats as much as you can expect from Steelseries, the material on my Xais scroll wheel literally rotted covering it in a sticky gloop









I'd rather take care of it for Christmas than wait for a failure.

In all honesty it might last another five years for all I know but I love a new gadget at Christmas!


----------



## Overhaze

Accidental double post. Please ignore.


----------



## RamGuy

Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?


I'm not entirely sure.. I have always been using palm grip, but it has more to do with not having owned any other form of mice and not that I actually prefer palm over anything else. I've got some rather small hands, so my personal experience often points towards palm mice's having the habit of simply being slightly too big never really becoming that comfortable in the long run.

Quote:


> 2. What's your sensitivity?


About everything I've owned thus far has been low to mid-sensitivity. I've yet to go over 2100 DPI (none of my mice's have supported anything higher, and to this date I have never really seen any reason for it either.

Quote:


> 3. What's your maximum budget?


There is no such thing. If money pays for quality, and quality comes at the price of money so be it.

Quote:


> 4. Do you want additional buttons?


I don't fancy extra buttons, I'm not saying I will refuse to take any mice that features additional buttons or anything but I'm certainly not requiring any more than my regular backward / forward buttons for my efficient web-browsing experience. I will most likely never bother with macroing or setting up various additional buttons as long as it depends on some sort of software to make things work, as my past experience with such things are rather dull. In most cases I will spend lots of time into making it all perfect, then I suddenly have to make a complete re-install of my computer and all my work went down the drain anyway..

Quote:


> 5. What games do you play?


I'm playing various titles and genres. Mostly I play World of Warcraft, I also play 2D "open world", sandboxy games like Terraria and Starboud BETA. But I do also play Battlefield 4, PayDay 2, some Hearthstone BETA and Heroes of the Storm BETA. One of my more demanding games in terms of mice performance would be a "ski jumping simulation game" called Deluxe Ski Jumping 4 where fishy mice performance often proves to be a real hassle and deal-breaker.

Quote:


> 6. Do you mind about prediction?


Not entirely sure, but I always like the idea of 1:1 relationship between how I move and interact with the mouse and how it behaves on the screen.

Quote:


> 7. Other relevant information:


I do fancy quality, I hate equipment that feels fuzzy and cheaply built. You might give me the best preforming thing on earth, but if it feels like crap I won't enjoy using it.
I also prefer solutions with on-board memory or some way for it to remember my settings so I wont have to configure everything each and every time I re-install my computer, accidentally remove the software and whatnot. I also prefer "control" by which I mean I take controlled movement over blazing speeds any day of the week which is the main reason why I tend to prefer more rough texture on my mouse pad's instead of slippery smooth ones as I hate when my mice glides to easily as I feel I lose control of the motion. For me the most important thing is the overall quality, in needs to feel good in terms of the built quality and everything, it needs to fit my rather small hands in a good way so I don't feel like it's made for something quite a bit larger than what I'm born with and the performance needs to be stellar and stable.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamGuy*
> 
> I'm not entirely sure.. I have always been using palm grip, but it has more to do with not having owned any other form of mice and not that I actually prefer palm over anything else. I've got some rather small hands, so my personal experience often points towards palm mice's having the habit of simply being slightly too big never really becoming that comfortable in the long run.
> About everything I've owned thus far has been low to mid-sensitivity. I've yet to go over 2100 DPI (none of my mice's have supported anything higher, and to this date I have never really seen any reason for it either.
> There is no such thing. If money pays for quality, and quality comes at the price of money so be it.
> I don't fancy extra buttons, I'm not saying I will refuse to take any mice that features additional buttons or anything but I'm certainly not requiring any more than my regular backward / forward buttons for my efficient web-browsing experience. I will most likely never bother with macroing or setting up various additional buttons as long as it depends on some sort of software to make things work, as my past experience with such things are rather dull. In most cases I will spend lots of time into making it all perfect, then I suddenly have to make a complete re-install of my computer and all my work went down the drain anyway..
> I'm playing various titles and genres. Mostly I play World of Warcraft, I also play 2D "open world", sandboxy games like Terraria and Starboud BETA. But I do also play Battlefield 4, PayDay 2, some Hearthstone BETA and Heroes of the Storm BETA. One of my more demanding games in terms of mice performance would be a "ski jumping simulation game" called Deluxe Ski Jumping 4 where fishy mice performance often proves to be a real hassle and deal-breaker.
> Not entirely sure, but I always like the idea of 1:1 relationship between how I move and interact with the mouse and how it behaves on the screen.
> I do fancy quality, I hate equipment that feels fuzzy and cheaply built. You might give me the best preforming thing on earth, but if it feels like crap I won't enjoy using it.
> I also prefer solutions with on-board memory or some way for it to remember my settings so I wont have to configure everything each and every time I re-install my computer, accidentally remove the software and whatnot. I also prefer "control" by which I mean I take controlled movement over blazing speeds any day of the week which is the main reason why I tend to prefer more rough texture on my mouse pad's instead of slippery smooth ones as I hate when my mice glides to easily as I feel I lose control of the motion. For me the most important thing is the overall quality, in needs to feel good in terms of the built quality and everything, it needs to fit my rather small hands in a good way so I don't feel like it's made for something quite a bit larger than what I'm born with and the performance needs to be stellar and stable.


I'd say take a look at something like the Zowie FK.


----------



## A-Gen

I'm looking for a replacement for my old SteelSeries Ikari and currently Naga 2014 is the hottest candidate. However I haven't found one to try out in stores here in Sweden, and my main concern is the actuation force of the main buttons.
I kind of like the switches on my Ikari and am wondering if any of you could give a comparison between them and suggest alternatives if the difference is too great.

Thanks!


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-Gen*
> 
> I'm looking for a replacement for my old SteelSeries Ikari and currently Naga 2014 is the hottest candidate. However I haven't found one to try out in stores here in Sweden, and my main concern is the actuation force of the main buttons.
> I kind of like the switches on my Ikari and am wondering if any of you could give a comparison between them and suggest alternatives if the difference is too great.
> 
> Thanks!


I don't know what games you play but have you seen the new Mionix Naos 7000? Since it's more like the Ikari shape wise you may like it. (If you like the Ikari) Naga is very different. I have only tried a friends Naga, don't know which model he had but it felt very small. Like round, high and short.


----------



## A-Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I don't know what games you play but have you seen the new Mionix Naos 7000? Since it's more like the Ikari shape wise you may like it. (If you like the Ikari) Naga is very different. I have only tried a friends Naga, don't know which model he had but it felt very small. Like round, high and short.


Might have been helpful to mention that I'm looking for a mouse with more buttons as I play mostly MMOs, sorry about that







On the subject of shape I'm a bit flexible, hte important part is that it has support for one or both of the ring and little finger. I fingertip so I'm not that sensitive about the length of it. I would probably have bought the new Naos straight up if it had had more buttons though :/
Still wondering how the main buttons feel to click as well


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-Gen*
> 
> Might have been helpful to mention that I'm looking for a mouse with more buttons as I play mostly MMOs, sorry about that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the subject of shape I'm a bit flexible, hte important part is that it has support for one or both of the ring and little finger. I fingertip so I'm not that sensitive about the length of it. I would probably have bought the new Naos straight up if it had had more buttons though :/
> Still wondering how the main buttons feel to click as well


Pretty much the opposite type of mice I wan't







You don't have any Mediamarkt or other big stores close to where you live? They usually have most mice in a test example.


----------



## A-Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Pretty much the opposite type of mice I wan't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have any Mediamarkt or other big stores close to where you live? They usually have most mice in a test example.


I do have a mediamarkt, but it's a hassle to get there as it lies basically at the city borders on the other side of the city. If only I owned a car x) Might get my lazy bum over there this weekend.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-Gen*
> 
> I do have a mediamarkt, but it's a hassle to get there as it lies basically at the city borders on the other side of the city. If only I owned a car x) Might get my lazy bum over there this weekend.


At least here where I live (Sundsvall). Teknikmagasinet have a lot of gaming gear, especially Razer. They usually opens a box if you ask them nicely, to feel on the mouse.


----------



## A-Gen

Didn't even think about teknikmagasinet, will check out their store here in Umeå. Thanks a lot


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-Gen*
> 
> Didn't even think about teknikmagasinet, will check out their store here in Umeå. Thanks a lot


Maybe not the best price but hopefully you can feel on it


----------



## adriangb

Hey I'd like a mouse recommended to me, but as I'm neither a bit gamer nor a mouse connoisseur I'm unable to answer many of the questions. My current situation is a Razer Naga Epic I got for close to nothing, in a combo with a Raze Black Widow Ultimate (as in, I'm already using Synapse). I'm having the Naga RMA'd because the light seems to have become unreliable (it'll go off for days) and the battery is all but dead. I'm not much of a gamer, but I've fallen in love with the smooth tracking on the Naga. I am however no fan of the 12 buttons, as I don't ever play MMOs (when I do game, it's mostly FPS or sports, and I have xBox controllers), and I click them accidentally now and then, and have inserted quite a few # in papers. I prefer a Razer mouse, as I may be able to convince them to change it for another one (as the Naga is one of the more expensive models) and I'm already using Synapse for my KB). I'm currently thinking DeathAdder but wanted to get opinions. Hope this isn't too confusing


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adriangb*
> 
> Hey I'd like a mouse recommended to me, but as I'm neither a bit gamer nor a mouse connoisseur I'm unable to answer many of the questions. My current situation is a Razer Naga Epic I got for close to nothing, in a combo with a Raze Black Widow Ultimate (as in, I'm already using Synapse). I'm having the Naga RMA'd because the light seems to have become unreliable (it'll go off for days) and the battery is all but dead. I'm not much of a gamer, but I've fallen in love with the smooth tracking on the Naga. I am however no fan of the 12 buttons, as I don't ever play MMOs (when I do game, it's mostly FPS or sports, and I have xBox controllers), and I click them accidentally now and then, and have inserted quite a few # in papers. I prefer a Razer mouse, as I may be able to convince them to change it for another one (as the Naga is one of the more expensive models) and I'm already using Synapse for my KB). I'm currently thinking DeathAdder but wanted to get opinions. Hope this isn't too confusing


The deathadder is what many of us would consider a better sensor. But it looks like you primarily like the feel of the Naga sensor and there is no guarentee that the deathadder's will feel just as good if not better. It looks like the naga has a 8200 dpi laser sensor and it looks like no other razer mouse has that sensor. Assuming its this latest generation of Naga that you're using and love the sensor of, something like the corsair m65 and logitech g500, being two possibilities.


----------



## adriangb

It's my first 'real' mouse, so I wouldn't say I'm in love with this sensor in particular, just with the difference between this and the cheap mice I've previously owned. And it's a 2012 model I think.


----------



## Atavax

if you turn the mouse upside down it will likely says like, naga 3.5g or 4g or 3.0 g and give the max dpi as well


----------



## Overhaze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overhaze*
> 
> Here is a picture of my fingertip grip with my Sensai. As you can see my thumb ring and little finger are all perfectly placed on their respective buttons but I can't get at that fourth button without shifting my grip. Any suggestions for a replacement?


I've narrowed my choices down to the Steel Series Rivel, Roccat Pure Optical and The 2013 Deathadder. Any info on if the Pures optical sensor is zero acceleration? If all else fails you can't go wrong with a Deathadder right?


----------



## Menthalion

People playing Mmo's should really look at Logitech G13 or Razer Tartarus for their movement (wasd on thumbstick) and hotbar use (with modifiers 3 hotbars of 12). Then you have everything you need for that and can combine it with a decent mouse.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> People playing Mmo's should really look at Logitech G13 or Razer Tartarus for their movement (wasd on thumbstick) and hotbar use (with modifiers 3 hotbars of 12). Then you have everything you need for that and can combine it with a decent mouse.


I couldn't disagree more. I play MMO's quite often and that thing is hard as hell to use. There are actually less buttons within reach (not having to move hand) on either of those then there is on your keyboard. Basically I say, learn where your keys are on the keyboard and get a decent mouse and your good.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *name*
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. I play MMO's quite often and that thing is hard as hell to use. There are actually less buttons within reach (not having to move hand) on either of those then there is on your keyboard. Basically I say, learn where your keys are on the keyboard and get a decent mouse and your good.


I don't want to derail what is essentially a mouse thread, but with movement bound to thumbstick you have a 3 row 4 column block of hotkeys. Rest 3 fingers on middle row and use pink on left column for 3 modifier keys and you have 4 hotbars with only needing to shift a finger at most one key.

You never even have to give up movement to use powers.

For me it's been a bigger boon to gameplay than getting a decent mouse. And I use it pretty much for all types of games now, not only MMO's. Especially ones with more complex key setups.

Granted, the G13 might not be suitable for smallish hands when used this way, but the Tartarus pretty much is.

I have never understood the abomination of 12 thumb keys on a mouse if you could use something like this.

However, I'm mighty curious for a mouse with a thumbstick that could be bound to wasd, so you have all movement on the mouse hand, and have the other hand freed for a full kb.

I wonder if a brain could coordinate that


----------



## adriangb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> if you turn the mouse upside down it will likely says like, naga 3.5g or 4g or 3.0 g and give the max dpi as well


Sorry, just got home. No DPI or 3.5G etc. that I can see, just serial number, model number, etc.

This is the model if it'll help: 

Also, model # is RC30-005101 and it has 2011 on it, but I'm not sure that's the model year.


----------



## suitaroh

Hello OCN,

I'm looking for a new mouse to use with and eventually replace my Logitech G9x.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use the DPI turned all the way up on the G9x, I think it's 5700?

3. What's your maximum budget?
~80$ USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, a must have.

5. What games do you play?
Right now Mechwarrior Online, Payday 2, Crusader Kings II. Generally tend more towards FPS, but also play some RTS and MMO.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have never noticed the prediction of the G9x.

7. Other relevant information:
Fine with heavier mice. Not a fan of glossy surfaces on mice. Would like a shape like the G9x, no wireless, no crazy software like synapse (no Razer in general). I like higher DPI's, even in FPS, and it comes in useful on my 27in 2560 x 1440 monitor, the G9x takes too long to go side to side. The mouse will probably be used on a cloth surface, unless someone can convince me hard surfaces are significantly better.
I love the G9x to death, but to extend its life I'm looking for something similar. The scroll wheel on the G9x is truly one of my favorite features but I can learn to live without it. As for why not get another Logitech; the G500's side buttons look too uncomfortable, the G600 has wireless and no fast scroll wheel, and the G700 is wireless; Logitech's current stuff is so close, but yet so far. Currently looking at the Corsair M95-the favorite so far due to its number of buttons, Zowie FK/AM-something new and different to me, not sure how effectively I would use the buttons on the pinkie finger side though, Thermaltake Volos-wildcard, has a good number of buttons but ugly as can be, Mionix Avior 8200-same deal as the Zowie. This is just from a bit a researching, I definitely do not know much about the current state of mice. Help me find a replacement for an old friend









Thank you for your time


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suitaroh*
> 
> Hello OCN,
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse to use with and eventually replace my Logitech G9x.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I use the DPI turned all the way up on the G9x, I think it's 5700?
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> ~80$ USD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, a must have.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Right now Mechwarrior Online, Payday 2, Crusader Kings II. Generally tend more towards FPS, but also play some RTS and MMO.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I have never noticed the prediction of the G9x.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Fine with heavier mice. Not a fan of glossy surfaces on mice. Would like a shape like the G9x, no wireless, no crazy software like synapse (no Razer in general). I like higher DPI's, even in FPS, and it comes in useful on my 27in 2560 x 1440 monitor, the G9x takes too long to go side to side. The mouse will probably be used on a cloth surface, unless someone can convince me hard surfaces are significantly better.
> I love the G9x to death, but to extend its life I'm looking for something similar. The scroll wheel on the G9x is truly one of my favorite features but I can learn to live without it. As for why not get another Logitech; the G500's side buttons look too uncomfortable, the G600 has wireless and no fast scroll wheel, and the G700 is wireless; Logitech's current stuff is so close, but yet so far. Currently looking at the Corsair M95-the favorite so far due to its number of buttons, Zowie FK/AM-something new and different to me, not sure how effectively I would use the buttons on the pinkie finger side though, Thermaltake Volos-wildcard, has a good number of buttons but ugly as can be, Mionix Avior 8200-same deal as the Zowie. This is just from a bit a researching, I definitely do not know much about the current state of mice. Help me find a replacement for an old friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time


Do you need more than 5700 DPI??!? Sensei have an acceptable laser sensor even on cloth, only flaw is the acceleration but with your sensitivity I don't think you would notice it. And you use laser now so it should not be a problem. I believe the standard Sensei goes up to around 11000 DPI, RAW version goes up to 5670. Zowies mice only goes up to 2300 DPI.


----------



## Atavax

looks like the g9x is actually just 5,000 dpi.

zowie mice all have a max dpi of 2300 except one which has a max of just 1600, which i imagine is a bit low for you.

If you go the optical route, the highest dpi you could get would be from mionix with the naos or avior 7,000. which has 7,000 dpi. exact same sensor, just different ergonomics where you can chose which looks more comfortable to you.

optical mice typically track better on soft pads and laser mice tend to track better on hard pads. optical mice also tend to require you to lift your mouse off the pad at a lower distance to stop tracking so you have to move it less if you're re-positioning the mouse on the pad. Optical mice have no build in acceleration, which is generally desirable.

If you want more dpi, there are plenty of 8,200 dpi laser mice out there, i would recommend not to get any with 2 sensors. I think the single sensor version with 8,200 dpi all use Avago 9800 sensor, so really its going to be about build quality and what looks comfortable for you. Mionix naos or avior 8,200, would be two choices. Corsair has a few as well. CM storm ha a few as well. You already mentioned logitech... Mionix, Corsair, CM Storm, and Logitech all have above average build quality in the industry and would be good choices if you go this route.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> looks like the g9x is actually just 5,000 dpi.
> 
> zowie mice all have a max dpi of 2300 except one which has a max of just 1600, which i imagine is a bit low for you.
> 
> If you go the optical route, the highest dpi you could get would be from mionix with the naos or avior 7,000. which has 7,000 dpi. exact same sensor, just different ergonomics where you can chose which looks more comfortable to you.
> 
> optical mice typically track better on soft pads and laser mice tend to track better on hard pads. optical mice also tend to require you to lift your mouse off the pad at a lower distance to stop tracking so you have to move it less if you're re-positioning the mouse on the pad. Optical mice have no build in acceleration, which is generally desirable.
> 
> If you want more dpi, there are plenty of 8,200 dpi laser mice out there, i would recommend not to get any with 2 sensors. I think the single sensor version with 8,200 dpi all use Avago 9800 sensor, so really its going to be about build quality and what looks comfortable for you. Mionix naos or avior 8,200, would be two choices. Corsair has a few as well. CM storm ha a few as well. You already mentioned logitech... Mionix, Corsair, CM Storm, and Logitech all have above average build quality in the industry and would be good choices if you go this route.


I know at least Sensei MLG uses Avago 9800 and that mouse suffers from huge input lag. Not a problem with the Standard Sensei or RAW which uses Avago 9500. I don't know how other mice with Avago 9800 works.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> optical mice typically track better on soft pads and laser mice tend to track better on hard pads. optical mice also tend to require you to lift your mouse off the pad at a lower distance to stop tracking so you have to move it less if you're re-positioning the mouse on the pad. Optical mice have no build in acceleration, which is generally desirable.


Sorry, have to disagree on multiple points.

Optical mice be it Laser or LED have better imaging on the more common grainy plastic surfaces designed for gaming. Cloth pads on the other hand tend to offer "easier" IPS tracking speed compatibility with LED devices.

Not sure what you mean about the lift off distance but this honestly depends on the hardware itself.

Optical mice regardless of illumination methodology have small variance of acceleration. The whole mentality that "laser illuminated mice = accel" is slewed. Only perceivably reflects UGS 9500/9800.

Any alternative laser driven architecture is comparable to what's considered a good LED design.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Sorry, have to disagree on multiple points.
> 
> Optical mice be it Laser or LED have better imaging on the more common grainy plastic surfaces designed for gaming. Cloth pads on the other hand tend to offer "easier" IPS tracking speed compatibility with LED devices.
> 
> Not sure what you mean about the lift off distance but this honestly depends on the hardware itself.
> 
> Optical mice regardless of illumination methodology have small variance of acceleration. The whole mentality that "laser illuminated mice = accel" is slewed. Only perceivably reflects UGS 9500/9800.
> 
> Any alternative laser driven architecture is comparable to what's considered a good LED design.


IPS?


----------



## nlmiller0015

INCHES per second


----------



## Atavax

is he saying that basically its easier to use higher IPS on soft pads and led mice users tend to have higher IPS?


----------



## Skylit

I'm saying its easier to achieve the highest possible tracking speeds on most cloth surfaces.

On the flip side, pictures of surfaces aren't as accurate as they could be.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Any alternative laser driven architecture is comparable to what's considered a good LED design.


The only other LASER illuminated optical sensors I've seen are the ADNS-6010 and variants and the Cypress sensor.

I've heard that both the Avago-6010 and Cypress LASER illuminated sensors had a relatively low maximum tracking speed. Unless I have the wrong impression, the ADNS-3090 still remains the best choice for people who want to play FPS at a low sensitivity.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The only other LASER illuminated optical sensors I've seen are the ADNS-6010 and variants and the Cypress sensor.
> 
> I've heard that both the Avago-6010 and Cypress LASER illuminated sensors had a relatively low maximum tracking speed. Unless I have the wrong impression, the ADNS-3090 still remains the best choice for people who want to play FPS at a low sensitivity.


Philips twin eye (Yes, optical) and many alternative Avago/Pixart/ST variants would also qualify regardless of rating.

I'm just trying to prevent this silly generalization of " laser = acceleration". Not specifically referring to highest possible tracking speed.

Modern releases/revisions all do fairly well in regards.


----------



## Atavax

my friend bought me a hard plastic mouspad and my deathadder 3.5g did not track at all on it. I was also flown to a studio once and the LED mouse i brought did not work on their hard plastic mouspads. So at least for me, i've had pretty bad luck with hard pads and LED mice.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my friend bought me a hard plastic mouspad and my deathadder 3.5g did not track at all on it. I was also flown to a studio once and the LED mouse i brought did not work on their hard plastic mouspads. So at least for me, i've had pretty bad luck with hard pads and LED mice.


What kind of surface was it? Any of the grainy textured surfaces should perform well enough with that specific mouse.

4HD/9HD
Destructor 1/2 (D2 shows some speed loss vs others, precision is good.)
MM400
G440
Swift

etc..


----------



## Atavax

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww128/RoddimusPrime/OCN%20Sale/DSC04079.jpg on either side, didn't track at all


----------



## Skylit

Never used that pad, but I'll try to get ahold of one for testing purposes ^^


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I know at least Sensei MLG uses Avago 9800 and that mouse suffers from huge input lag. Not a problem with the Standard Sensei or RAW which uses Avago 9500. I don't know how other mice with Avago 9800 works.


Correct but only the Sensei MLG has that problem right now. G500s, Taipan, and M65/95 all have the new firmware update from Pixart baked in to get rid of the lag but SteelSeries doesn't seem to care.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Philips twin eye (Yes, optical) and many alternative Avago/Pixart/ST variants would also qualify regardless of rating.
> 
> I'm just trying to prevent this silly generalization of " laser = acceleration". Not specifically referring to highest possible tracking speed.
> 
> Modern releases/revisions all do fairly well in regards.


Phillips Twin Eye is optical? I thought the doppler shift method of tracking put it in its own class. I don't recommend that one because I've heard a lot of reports of failure.

It's basically become optical means ADNS-3090 and laser means ADNS-9500 these days. It's pretty unfortunate for anyone manufacturing a mouse with some alternative laser illuminated sensor.


----------



## adriangb

I talked with Razer and they won't switch my mouse for another one, so my plan is to try and sell it, and get a new mouse. What would you guys recommend that isn't necessarily gaming oriented but still has nice tracking and sliding? I'd like:
1) good tracking, smooth gliding and clicking
2)medium size (my naga is just right), right hand ergonomic
3) this would be a plus but I miss the inertia scrolling of Apple's Mouse. This also worked with a Microsoft Explorer, so I assume it works with other touch Microsoft mice, and possibly Logitech.
4) some extra buttons wouldn't hurt

Three and four are optional and I wouldn't pay more than 10 to 20 more for each


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adriangb*
> 
> I talked with Razer and they won't switch my mouse for another one, so my plan is to try and sell it, and get a new mouse. What would you guys recommend that isn't necessarily gaming oriented but still has nice tracking and sliding? I'd like:
> 1) good tracking, smooth gliding and clicking
> 2)medium size (my naga is just right), right hand ergonomic
> 3) this would be a plus but I miss the inertia scrolling of Apple's Mouse. This also worked with a Microsoft Explorer, so I assume it works with other touch Microsoft mice, and possibly Logitech.
> 4) some extra buttons wouldn't hurt
> 
> Three and four are optional and I wouldn't pay more than 10 to 20 more for each


Zowie EC1 EVO, SteelSeries Rival, Mionix NAOS 7000, and Logitech G400/G400s are all right handed opticals. I think the Rival and NAOS 7000 would be the highest performing since they offer the a new gen optical sensor whereas the EC1 EVO and G400s (especially the latter) have tried and true 1:1 tracking. I assume you don't want Razer again so I omitted the DA 2013 which I've tested and had no problems with. I'm sure the unreliability is still an issue with Razer mice though, not surprisingly.


----------



## jtjoetan

Hey guys any1 mind recommending me a mouse? for BF4, dota2. Im trying to avoid razer as i've had a DA and i dont feel comfortable with it ( my hands feel tired after using it) even tho my hands fit perfectly to the DA.

Im thinking of SS Sensei, how's the sensei ? im worried bout the metal coating and the tracking issues. Tried the RAW rubberised, it feels cheap.. the DA be is better than the RAW rubberised in terms of the quality of the rubber


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adriangb*
> 
> I talked with Razer and they won't switch my mouse for another one, so my plan is to try and sell it, and get a new mouse. What would you guys recommend that isn't necessarily gaming oriented but still has nice tracking and sliding? I'd like:
> 1) good tracking, smooth gliding and clicking
> 2)medium size (my naga is just right), right hand ergonomic
> 3) this would be a plus but I miss the inertia scrolling of Apple's Mouse. This also worked with a Microsoft Explorer, so I assume it works with other touch Microsoft mice, and possibly Logitech.
> 4) some extra buttons wouldn't hurt
> 
> Three and four are optional and I wouldn't pay more than 10 to 20 more for each


I just got my G602 at the start of last month (or the month before, the weeks meld into eachother). I cannot recommend this mouse enough. Its fantastic. Excellent tracking from its optical sensor, 6 buttons, right hand ergonomics, huge battery life (I game quite often with mine and the battery level hasnt gone below 85% yet after nearing on a month and a half). Great build quality and had Logitech's warranty which is fantastic.
You could also try the G600, that should be right up your alley if you liked the Naga and all its buttons.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtjoetan*
> 
> Hey guys any1 mind recommending me a mouse? for BF4, dota2. Im trying to avoid razer as i've had a DA and i dont feel comfortable with it ( my hands feel tired after using it) even tho my hands fit perfectly to the DA.
> 
> Im thinking of SS Sensei, how's the sensei ? im worried bout the metal coating and the tracking issues. Tried the RAW rubberised, it feels cheap.. the DA be is better than the RAW rubberised in terms of the quality of the rubber


The G400 is almost identical to the DA in terms of the sensor, and has more of a natural shape to grip.


----------



## jtjoetan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The G400 is almost identical to the DA in terms of the sensor, and has more of a natural shape to grip.


I tried the g400 i didnt really like it..

any more suggestions guys?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtjoetan*
> 
> I tried the g400 i didnt really like it..
> 
> any more suggestions guys?


The Zowie EC Evo and Roccat Savu are also good options.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> Yeah, just noticed that, I'll repost and make the change I mentioned:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/palm (palm touches, but most movement seems to come from the fingertips)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? medium/medium-high
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? preferably no more than ~50, could go a little higher for quality. Definitely no more than $100.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Sure, but not too many. My current mouse (logitech m705) is fine for me, but the left mouse button is dying.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends mostly lately. Lots of web browsing and a variety of other games from time to time.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? No idea, never really noticed it. I imagine it would be jarring if this were present and obvious on the mouse. I guess I'd rather avoid it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I don't want anything ridiculously heavy, but some weight feels nice. I don't need anything totally amazing, just looking for something that works well for me and is comfortable/high quality.


help?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> help?


Take a look at the Corsair M95, seems right up your alley. Also the Logitech G600 and the old G5 would work too. Look at mice in that shape and you should be fine.


----------



## shango

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? Medium - 800-1200cpi

3. What's your maximum budget? $80

4. Do you want additional buttons? At least 4 (L/R/middle/"back") and decent scroll wheel

5. What games do you play? CS:GO, Quake-likes, LoL

6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer no prediction

7. Other relevant information:
I have smallish hands and prefer wired, optical mice, although my G9x was a good enough fit that the laser didn't bother me. I like the short (length and height) and wide G9x a lot.


----------



## Sikairus

It sucks, I keep finding something better after i make up my mind.

Right now, the G700s is $60 and it looks good, and I'm thinking of pairing it with a 4HD. Should I go for it?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sikairus*
> 
> It sucks, I keep finding something better after i make up my mind.
> 
> Right now, the G700s is $60 and it looks good, and I'm thinking of pairing it with a 4HD. Should I go for it?


G700s battery life is abysmal, lasts about 8-9 hours of gaming and its dead, gotta plug it in. Although you do ahve the option of gaming plugged in, its annoying to say the least.
If you wanna go wireless, the only real option is the Logitech G602. Good amount of buttons, great sensor and massive battery life. I've been gaming with mine for nearly 2 months, havent dropped below 85% yet.


----------



## ssss69

1. What's your grip style?

Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?

70-80€

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Maybe, I play FPS games, so I don´t need much of them

5. What games do you play?

FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Have never used a mouse with it I don´t Know

7. Additional Information

My hand is pretty small, they are 17cm from the palm to my biggest finger.

I need to decide between g400,g500,ratz 5,7,cm storm, g100s, steelseries..., deathadder,etc

What would it be your choice, considering I live in europe and we don´t have Kait or Raccut mouses?


----------



## Menthalion

What about Mionix latest and greatest , the palm-grip Naos 7000, with the ADNS-3310 sensor ?

And where in Europe do you live ? I live in the Netherlands and there's plenty local webshops stocking Roccat mice.

Although it wasn't for my grip and size, the Roccat Kone Pure Optical is a good palm grip for small hands, with build quality and features that are hard to beat. Alternate has webshops in most European countries, and stock loads of brands you can't find in most high-street computer shops.


----------



## ssss69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> What about Mionix latest and greatest , the palm-grip Naos 7000, with the ADNS-3310 sensor ?
> 
> And where in Europe do you live ? I live in the Netherlands and there's plenty local webshops stocking Roccat mice.
> 
> Although it wasn't for my grip and size, the Roccat Kone Pure Optical is a good palm grip for small hands, with build quality and features that are hard to beat. Alternate has webshops in most European countries, and stock loads of brands you can't find in most high-street computer shops.


Ok I´ve found them in the internet I had to search a bit to find them in Spain.

Are they worth the money?, you know this brands are not globally known, and they are quite expensive, are they better than a G400,500 or any of the steelseries or deathadder?

Also another question is, how to know if my hands are little? they are 17cm long, I think they are quite small, what do you think?

Many thanks


----------



## Menthalion

The build quality on the Roccat Kone Pure Optical I had was top notch, way above Steelseries. Sensor wise it's also at the top. Razer mice are as flimsy as you can get.

CM Storm Recon is slightly under the Roccat, a bit on the heavy side but pretty good for a palm mouse. You almost can't but palm it due to the pronounced hump at the back. Some people have problems with reaching the front thumb button but I had no problems there, but I have pretty big hands. Sensor wise it has very big steps, 800 1600 3200 and 4000.

Mionix Naos 7000 on paper has great specs, and the new 3310 is a great sensor. I have no personal experience with the mouse itself though, since it's been out for a week or two. The shape of all Naoses are very similar, so for ergonomics and build quality read up on their older version.

As for hand size, I looked it up, and 17 cm seems to be the average female hand size. A friend of mine I gave the Roccat to has about the same size hand, and loves it as palm mouse. Be aware that it doesn't track that well on a basic white desktop, but mice like that really deserve a good mousepad.

As for the Logitech, the G400s is a sturdy and good palm mouse but not really for small hands. G100s is a decent mouse for the low price, and sizewise it would fit pretty well, but tech spec wise you can get better.


----------



## Tacoboy

I'm thinking of buying the $20 5-button Optical Laser gaming mouse from Monoprice.
The drivers they provide are from 2009 (Vista), I'm trying to figure out who manufacturers the mouse to see if there are newer drivers available.
So anyone have any idea who make the mouse?


EDIT, Just found out it's the Pixxo ML-G235 mouse.
So far no luck finding newer drivers.


----------



## ssss69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> The build quality on the Roccat Kone Pure Optical I had was top notch, way above Steelseries. Sensor wise it's also at the top. Razer mice are as flimsy as you can get.
> 
> CM Storm Recon is slightly under the Roccat, a bit on the heavy side but pretty good for a palm mouse. You almost can't but palm it due to the pronounced hump at the back. Some people have problems with reaching the front thumb button but I had no problems there, but I have pretty big hands. Sensor wise it has very big steps, 800 1600 3200 and 4000.
> 
> Mionix Naos 7000 on paper has great specs, and the new 3310 is a great sensor. I have no personal experience with the mouse itself though, since it's been out for a week or two. The shape of all Naoses are very similar, so for ergonomics and build quality read up on their older version.
> 
> As for hand size, I looked it up, and 17 cm seems to be the average female hand size. A friend of mine I gave the Roccat to has about the same size hand, and loves it as palm mouse. Be aware that it doesn't track that well on a basic white desktop, but mice like that really deserve a good mousepad.
> 
> As for the Logitech, the G400s is a sturdy and good palm mouse but not really for small hands. G100s is a decent mouse for the low price, and sizewise it would fit pretty well, but tech spec wise you can get better.


So now I've seen that the Roccat Kone Pure Optical is a great mouse, but also pretty expensive, but you think that it´s totally worth the money?

Ok and last, are there great difference Bettween the Pure Optical, the Pure and the Pure XTD?

Many thanks


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> G700s battery life is abysmal, lasts about 8-9 hours of gaming and its dead, gotta plug it in. Although you do ahve the option of gaming plugged in, its annoying to say the least.
> If you wanna go wireless, the only real option is the Logitech G602. Good amount of buttons, great sensor and massive battery life. I've been gaming with mine for nearly 2 months, havent dropped below 85% yet.


I have to second this person's experiences with the G700s. I just had to give up using it because I was plugging it in every other day. It just made the wireless feature pointless.

You could say, if I plug it in, it's just like any other wired mouse, but the USB plug that goes into the mouse is really thick, and actually hinders the movement of the mouse. I could remove the battery, while the USB cable is plugged in, to make it lighter, but then the balance of the mouse just all goes to hell.

So that, plus just having to worry about charging it every other day, I eventually figured getting a dedicated wired mouse would make things a whole lot easier.

Sorry for the mini-rant. I just wish Logitech would stop underfeaturing (like the G100s), or overfeaturing (like the G700s) their mice, and just make a decent mouse. The G400s is perfect feature-wise, but I'm just not a big fan of its shape.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I have to second this person's experiences with the G700s. I just had to give up using it because I was plugging it in every other day. It just made the wireless feature pointless.
> 
> You could say, if I plug it in, it's just like any other wired mouse, but the USB plug that goes into the mouse is really thick, and actually hinders the movement of the mouse. I could remove the battery, while the USB cable is plugged in, to make it lighter, but then the balance of the mouse just all goes to hell.
> 
> So that, plus just having to worry about charging it every other day, I eventually figured getting a dedicated wired mouse would make things a whole lot easier.
> 
> Sorry for the mini-rant. I just wish Logitech would stop underfeaturing (like the G100s), or overfeaturing (like the G700s) their mice, and just make a decent mouse. The G400s is perfect feature-wise, but I'm just not a big fan of its shape.


Try the G602, takes what the G700 was trying to do and makes it alot better. Never worry about battery life again haha


----------



## fuzzybass

Actually... now that you mention it, I might consider the G602. Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## fleetfeather

1. What's your grip style?
I'm adaptable

2. What's your sensitivity?
Whatever it needs to be

3. What's your maximum budget?
(See 7)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I don't need them

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO, BF4

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
- I'm in a position where I can claim one of the follow mice for free: Zowie FK, Steelseries Rival, Razer DA 2013, Roccat Kova+. I have no brand loyalty or preference for aesthetics, I simply want the most accurate mouse I can get for FPS gaming. Choosing the Zowie FK would incur a 1 month waiting period. The Rival, DA and Kova+ are all in stock atm.
- I'll probably be using this mouse on a Artisan Hayate (but I'm open to suggestions)
- I have quite large hands. I've added a (crappy) photo for reference next to my Steelseries Wow Cata mouse and a ruler.


Spoiler: pic







Thanks guys and girls


----------



## NucNuc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Corsair M95, seems right up your alley. Also the Logitech G600 and the old G5 would work too. Look at mice in that shape and you should be fine.


From my "testing" experience so far I wouldn't recommend the Corsair M90/95. I`ve only tested the M90, but AFAIK the M95 only differs in another sensor.
For most concerns the M90/95 is a mouse of great design.
- thumb buttons -for my taste- perfectly placed, easy and comfortable (due to up-down movement of the thumb) to reach, no accidental hitting of the wrong button
- very comfortable form in terms of width-height-lengh relation, even if a wee bit too short for me, but I am mostly a palm-gripper, would be perfect if I could adapt to claw-grip
- perfectly adjusted left-/right-mouse buttons, easy enough to be comfortably clicked but even in the middle of a fight no unwanted clicking

*BUT*

*clicking* the thumb buttons is terrible, almost no response, a lot of force needed, feels like pressing a hard rubber ball
(that's the M90, if anybody knows this was also changed on the M95 due to experience with both of them ......)

@ADHDadditiv
as far as I've read you seem to be really fond of the G602.
may I ask you how big YOUR hands are in terms of lenght and width?
(you might have a look on my *post #1562* in this thread)


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NucNuc*
> 
> @ADHDadditiv
> as far as I've read you seem to be really fond of the G602.
> may I ask you how big YOUR hands are in terms of lenght and width?
> (you might have a look on my *post #1562* in this thread)


I have fairly large hands, I think they are over 7" in length. Very comfortable.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I'm adaptable
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Whatever it needs to be
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> (See 7)
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I don't need them
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:GO, BF4
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> - I'm in a position where I can claim one of the follow mice for free: Zowie FK, Steelseries Rival, Razer DA 2013, Roccat Kova+. I have no brand loyalty or preference for aesthetics, I simply want the most accurate mouse I can get for FPS gaming. Choosing the Zowie FK would incur a 1 month waiting period. The Rival, DA and Kova+ are all in stock atm.
> - I'll probably be using this mouse on a Artisan Hayate (but I'm open to suggestions)
> - I have quite large hands. I've added a (crappy) photo for reference next to my Steelseries Wow Cata mouse and a ruler.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys and girls


FK is very narrow, Kova+ doesn't look very comfortable imo. Between Deathadder and Rival I would go for Deathadder. The build quality of the 2013 feels very good and I would say it's more flexible in terms of grip style. Rival forces you to palm it very far back and if you hold it more to the front like me it feels unbalanced due to it's slim front and wide rear. People with big hands should be able to use Deathadder with palm, claw or even fingertip grip, but I don't see Rivals shape fit for that. Better weight balance in Deathadder, Rival feels heavier at the rear and heavier than the Deathadder overall imo. I prefer the lighter switches in Deathadder as well, Rivals are pretty hard and not as crisp. I don't know any mouse with better side buttons than Deathadder, perfect placed and good size, Rivals side buttons are too far back and too high placed. The first thing I like more about the Rival is the mouse feet, good size and glides well. Deathadders feet are thin and small. The other thing is how it looks... but I don't choose a mouse just cause it looks good.

I probably sound like a Deathadder fanboy after this text but I don't use Deathadder or Rival. I own both but both are to heavy for my taste, just point out what I would prefer. I use Sensei RAW atm, for the moment I can't find a better mouse for me even due to the acceleration issues. The shape and weight are just really good.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> FK is very narrow, Kova+ doesn't look very comfortable imo. Between Deathadder and Rival I would go for Deathadder. The build quality of the 2013 feels very good and I would say it's more flexible in terms of grip style. Rival forces you to palm it very far back and if you hold it more to the front like me it feels unbalanced due to it's slim front and wide rear. People with big hands should be able to use Deathadder with palm, claw or even fingertip grip, but I don't see Rivals shape fit for that. Better weight balance in Deathadder, Rival feels heavier at the rear and heavier than the Deathadder overall imo. I prefer the lighter switches in Deathadder as well, Rivals are pretty hard and not as crisp. I don't know any mouse with better side buttons than Deathadder, perfect placed and good size, Rivals side buttons are too far back and too high placed. The first thing I like more about the Rival is the mouse feet, good size and glides well. Deathadders feet are thin and small. The other thing is how it looks... but I don't choose a mouse just cause it looks good.
> 
> I probably sound like a Deathadder fanboy after this text but I don't use Deathadder or Rival. I own both but both are to heavy for my taste, just point out what I would prefer. I use Sensei RAW atm, for the moment I can't find a better mouse for me even due to the acceleration issues. The shape and weight are just really good.


Cheers for the insight, repped.









Still looking for additional input from the rest of the community too.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssss69*
> 
> So now I've seen that the Roccat Kone Pure Optical is a great mouse, but also pretty expensive, but you think that it´s totally worth the money?
> 
> Ok and last, are there great difference Bettween the Pure Optical, the Pure and the Pure XTD?
> 
> Many thanks


There's pretty big differences between the Pure Optical and the

Pure - Worse (laser) sensor
Pure XTD - Bigger, worse (laser) sensor
So you really want the Pure Optical.

Build quality I think it's the best mouse I've ever owned. Sensor wise it's among the best. I really wanted to like the mouse but the ergonomics just weren't for my hands / grip.
I really value build quality after I had to bin two SteelSeries in a row within a year (braided cord failure). I got suckered into buying the Rival because it has a non-braided cord, which I optimistically hope won't break down so soon, and because on all other fronts (sensor/shape) it seemed a good mouse for me.
Still think it's a flimsy mouse though. Razer's even worse, stopped buying them long ago.

I don't think you'll have problems like that with the Pure Optical. 20 euro more is a lot less than having to buy two mice in a year. The biggest gamble you take on buying mice is how they feel, because there's no quality metrics / reviews that will make you know that.


----------



## NucNuc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I have fairly large hands, I think they are over 7" in length. Very comfortable.


Hmmm, about 18 - 19 cm, still about 1/2 to 3/4'' lesser than mine.
I should look for a shop where I can try it outside its box.

THX for your input anyway.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NucNuc*
> 
> Hmmm, about 18 - 19 cm, still about 1/2 to 3/4'' lesser than mine.
> I should look for a shop where I can try it outside its box.
> 
> THX for your input anyway.










OMG YOUR HANDS ARE HUGE! High five








Logitech's are made for people with larger hands, at least that's what I've found. Go to your local computer store and try a few out.


----------



## Bakela

Hi,
after several years of playing cs 1.6 with awful mice I finally decided to purchase something more proffesional. Since I know nothing about this subject, I'm asking for an advice from you guys. Some basic information:
claw grip
somewhat of a medium size hand (about 20cm from my wrist joint to the middle finger)
low sensitivity (ATM I require about 70cm of mousepad to do a 360° turn around in game)
don't wanna spend more than 60$
wired
no prediction or smth similar
I don't use side buttons, so I don"t care about them

Any suggestions please?


----------



## tucosalamanca

Looking for a mouse. Currently have a super crappy OEM HP mouse. Model number: MO19BO

Grip Style: Somewhere between palm and claw. I prefer palm, but I just can't palm my current mouse b/c it is too small and doesn't fit my hand well.

Sensitivity: Mid-range sensitivity. Currently, my sensitivity setting in Windows is all the way up, but that's just because my mouse sucks so much.

Maximum Budget: $100, but I would really like something cheaper than that if possible.

Additional Buttons: Preferably a few keys to set macros or shift/ctrl, etc., but this isn't a deal-breaker.

Games: Strategy, FPS, Indie, I pretty much like everything.

Prediction: Lol, I just had to Google prediction. Uh, if it makes me less accurate, then I suppose I don't want it, but I'm not super-competitive or anything, so whatever you think is best.

Other: I'd prefer either a braided cable or wireless. If wireless, I do care that the battery lasts a good while. Definitely want a mouse that is comfortable in my hands. My hands are probably small to medium sized, so no Func MS3 sized behemoths. Adjustable dpi/cpi on the mouse would be nice. The lowest priority for me is looks, but it would be nice if it at least looked decent, too.

Thanks for any replies!


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tucosalamanca*
> 
> Looking for a mouse. Currently have a super crappy OEM HP mouse. Model number: MO19BO
> 
> Grip Style: Somewhere between palm and claw. I prefer palm, but I just can't palm my current mouse b/c it is too small and doesn't fit my hand well.
> 
> Sensitivity: Mid-range sensitivity. Currently, my sensitivity setting in Windows is all the way up, but that's just because my mouse sucks so much.
> 
> Maximum Budget: $100, but I would really like something cheaper than that if possible.
> 
> Additional Buttons: Preferably a few keys to set macros or shift/ctrl, etc., but this isn't a deal-breaker.
> 
> Games: Strategy, FPS, Indie, I pretty much like everything.
> 
> Prediction: Lol, I just had to Google prediction. Uh, if it makes me less accurate, then I suppose I don't want it, but I'm not super-competitive or anything, so whatever you think is best.
> 
> Other: I'd prefer either a braided cable or wireless. If wireless, I do care that the battery lasts a good while. Definitely want a mouse that is comfortable in my hands. My hands are probably small to medium sized, so no Func MS3 sized behemoths. Adjustable dpi/cpi on the mouse would be nice. The lowest priority for me is looks, but it would be nice if it at least looked decent, too.
> 
> Thanks for any replies!


I know this seems to everyone like the only mouse I recommend, and its true








The Logitech G602 is a fantastic mouse. Great optical sensor, wireless with an almost legendary battery life (Logitech says somewhere like 250 hours, having owned one for a month and a half, I totally see the battery's lasting this long, and they are just your run-of-the-mill Duracell AA's), 6 buttons on the side that are all quite easy to hit (if your hand is a bit smaller, the front 2 might be a little harder), very comfortable for palm grip, dpi changer that can be mapped to any button on the mouse. They are like $65, highly recommended.


----------



## xTurK

I originally wanted to buy the Razer DeathAdder 2013 (also thinking about the Steelseries Rival or the Zowie ZK), however, I wanted to know if it was the best choice or if there is a better mouse for me.

*1. What's your grip style?*

I'm not sure if it's claw or a hybrid between claw and palm. Here are some pictures of the way I hold my mouse when playing:







As you can also see, my mouse is awful for gaming. Its reaction time is terrible and it's jittery.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I generally play on a high sensitivity.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

I don't want anything exceeding $80, but anything between $50-$70 would be ideal.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes, 2 side buttons would be ideal (however, it wouldn't matter too much if there aren't any). I don't want a mouse with a million macro keys.

*5. What games do you play?*

In order of preference: FPS games, Minecraft, 2D side-scrollers like Terraria and Starbound, RTS games (this is just an order, but I play almost any kind of games).

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes, since I have become used to its absence.

*7. Other relevant information:*

- My hands are about 7.5" in length (or 19 cm) from the tip of the middle finger to the wrist (where you can see the first "line" of the wrist), so I guess I have an average hand.
- I don't mind if it has a laser or an optical sensor, but I heard that laser sensors are more accurate (I at least want to be able to make fine movements while still playing on a high sensitivity).
- I don't want a mouse that makes me feel like I'm lagging (low fps) when I move around.
- I also don't want a mouse with cheap fabric.
- Since I'm a fan of mice with fast reponse times and no delay, a wired mouse would be better.


----------



## milkman6453

1. Not too familiar with different styles, I like my G9x very much, pinky and ring finger lightly graze the mouse pad. trigger finger is point middle is right thumb rests in the "thumb spot" on the mouse.

2. I use around 1400 dpi , and 2.8 sensitivity in cs go

3. 100

4. Yes! id like at least two thumb buttons and require the scroll wheel to have the TILT option.

5. Counter Strike GO

6. prediction?

7. Wired, Right handed.

Looks like the g9x was dis****inued, plus my mouse has some left click issues going on. I tried to Roccat Kone+ the scroll wheel broke within a few days.
I have been searching for awhile now can't find much out there.


----------



## tuffy12345

Lots of people ITT seem to be counter strikers. Any of you guys recognize this?

Linky


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Heaton and Spawn from 1.6 started their own company making mice. That's the HeatoN model. EC = Emil Christiansen



I'm pretty tempted to get one just for the nostalgia. If only I hadn't just gotten a new mouse in July.


----------



## xTurK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTurK*
> 
> I originally wanted to buy the Razer DeathAdder 2013 (also thinking about the Steelseries Rival or the Zowie ZK), however, I wanted to know if it was the best choice or if there is a better mouse for me.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> I'm not sure if it's claw or a hybrid between claw and palm. Here are some pictures of the way I hold my mouse when playing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can also see, my mouse is awful for gaming. Its reaction time is terrible and it's jittery.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> I generally play on a high sensitivity.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> I don't want anything exceeding $80, but anything between $50-$70 would be ideal.
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, 2 side buttons would be ideal (however, it wouldn't matter too much if there aren't any). I don't want a mouse with a million macro keys.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> In order of preference: FPS games, Minecraft, 2D side-scrollers like Terraria and Starbound, RTS games (this is just an order, but I play almost any kind of games).
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Yes, since I have become used to its absence.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> - My hands are about 7.5" in length (or 19 cm) from the tip of the middle finger to the wrist (where you can see the first "line" of the wrist), so I guess I have an average hand.
> - I don't mind if it has a laser or an optical sensor, but I heard that laser sensors are more accurate (I at least want to be able to make fine movements while still playing on a high sensitivity).
> - I don't want a mouse that makes me feel like I'm lagging (low fps) when I move around.
> - I also don't want a mouse with cheap fabric.
> - Since I'm a fan of mice with fast reponse times and no delay, a wired mouse would be better.


Bump?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTurK*
> 
> Bump?


Nobody needed to answer your question, Deathadder.


----------



## xTurK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Nobody needed to answer your question, Deathadder.


Sorry, it's just that I'm in kind of a hurry. Are you sure about the DeathAdder? I heard that the Rival is like the DeathAdder, but better. I'm also looking to be able to make fine movements and play on a high sensitivity.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTurK*
> 
> Sorry, it's just that I'm in kind of a hurry. Are you sure about the DeathAdder? I heard that the Rival is like the DeathAdder, but better. I'm also looking to be able to make fine movements and play on a high sensitivity.


Deathadder. If you can switch to palm grip, Logitech G400.


----------



## esoterikk

What are my options for a replacement for the Kana? I can't get a Kana v2 in Canada (and frankly I don't like the buttons anyway), I am getting mixed reviews on the Zowie FK and I need side buttons and light weight. I had a Savu but didn't like the / \ side shape, won't even consider a mouse heavier than 90g. I mean the FK is the right shape and everything but again getting mixed sensor/quality reviews and it's extremely hard to find in Canada.

Any thoughts?

*edit* A TLDR: Similar shape to the FK/Kana, Side buttons, a \ / shape, not a savu, under 90g


----------



## xTurK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Deathadder. If you can switch to palm grip, Logitech G400.


Thanks for the suggestion (just to make sure, did you read my whole post? Because I have the claw grip style). Anyone else cares to suggest me a mouse?


----------



## Atavax

mionix avior 7000. better build quality than the rival or the deathadder.

cm spawn would also be a cheaper choice if you don't need to put the dpi above 1800.


----------



## xTurK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> mionix avior 7000. better build quality than the rival or the deathadder.
> 
> cm spawn would also be a cheaper choice if you don't need to put the dpi above 1800.


Everything about the Avior 7000 looks absolutely amazing, aside from the fact that it weighs 140 grams with the cable.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTurK*
> 
> Everything about the Avior 7000 looks absolutely amazing, aside from the fact that it weighs 140 grams with the cable.


you're not going to be lifting the cable when you're moving it, probably just means heavy duty usb connector and possibly a ferrite bead which would be right near the end with the usb connector... 100g without cable is lighter than the deathadder or rival without cable as well.


----------



## xTurK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> you're not going to be lifting the cable when you're moving it, probably just means heavy duty usb connector and possibly a ferrite bead which would be right near the end with the usb connector... 100g without cable is lighter than the deathadder or rival without cable as well.


Amazing. My only hope now is that the braided cable won't get stuck to things in its way. Do you know a place where I can buy it online? I live in Canada and I cannot find it on any website that ships to North America.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Corsair M95, seems right up your alley. Also the Logitech G600 and the old G5 would work too. Look at mice in that shape and you should be fine.


Is there something with the M95's shape with fewer buttons? I can't imagine needing or even consistently being able to use that many. I probably need no more than 3 extra buttons, if that.


----------



## Meob

First post -_-

So many mice to choose from I have no idea what to get. I've been using the g5 since like 05. It still works fine and I like the shape of it, but I hate the scroll wheel. The scroll wheel hasn't worked right since near the time I bought it and pushing it down as the mouse3 button is very difficult and I've never been able to use it.

*1. What's your grip style?*

finger tip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

I use 6/11 windows sensitivity and precision turned off. I leave the mouse dpi at 700 because that's the sensitivity I'm comfortable with and just adjust the ingame sensitivity to what ever I'm comfortable with (besides sc2 of course). I see there's some debate as to what settings are actually best on this site. I saw that write up about a while back about using 6/11 and have just been using it ever since.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

around 80.

*
4. Do you want additional buttons?*

just the one or two extra buttons on the inside of the mouse like the g5/mx518

*5. What games do you play?*

pretty much everything at some time or another. rts, fps, & mmo's. wow, tf2, sc2, dota2, etc

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

don't want prediction

*7. Other relevant information:*

just want something simple with simple drivers with at least the 1 extra button that's comfortable, has an accurate sensor (not even sure if i'd notice the supposed less accurate ones though), and an easy to use scroll wheel. my hands do get sweaty sometimes too in the summer. I've been reading about so many different mice I don't remember which are more difficult to grip with sweaty hands though I saw some were affected by it. would also prefer something on the lighter side without too high of a liftoff distance.

thanks


----------



## valerious

1. What's your grip style?
Claw grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
High. 10cm/360

3. What's your maximum budget?
Null.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only side thumb buttons

5. What games do you play?
Mostly competitive shooters - CSGO, COD4

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer zero prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Low LOD, ambidextrous shape (similar to the sensei in size which I currently use) driverless, onboard memory

Thanks!

Edit: Would prefer optical sensors, such as the A3090 or the new 3310


----------



## Tacoboy

Logitech G500 (non-S) mouse.

Just bought a Logitech G500 mouse like everything about it, except it has the roughness on the side for better grip.
Would have preferred to have gotten the model that had smooth sides.
Sometimes it seems to scroll up and down a little on it's own, unless for some reason I'm pushing some button that I'm not aware of.
When I first tried loading (overwriting) the latest Logitech gaming software on my Win 8.1, it did not take.
Had to totally uninstall the old software and then load the latest software,
but even then, sometimes I can't launch the Logitech software, but the mouse keeps working.


----------



## Above8

1. What's your grip style?
fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
15cm/360

3. What's your maximum budget?
any

4. Do you want additional buttons?
any

5. What games do you play?
UT2004, BF4

6. Do you mind about prediction?
zero prediction

7. Other relevant information:
zero prediction, 1 ms input lag, ambidextrous, lightweight
not Abyssus, because of its shape


----------



## Dubbz

I currently have a razor mamba ( got it when they first came out about 5-6 years ago) the right click button is starting to get really hard to push and I'm looking for a mouse with a couple more buttons on it than the mamba. I need some suggestions

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?not sure what sensitivity I use right now

3. What's your maximum budget? No max budget but prefer under 100

4. Do you want additional buttons? I would like 4-6 additional buttons

5. What games do you play? LoL,cs:go, bf4 ,WoW , day z those are my main games

6. Do you mind about prediction? Yes

7. Other relevant information: easy to press buttons
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## Above8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dubbz*
> 
> I currently have a razor mamba ( got it when they first came out about 5-6 years ago) the right click button is starting to get really hard to push and I'm looking for a mouse with a couple more buttons on it than the mamba. I need some suggestions
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?not sure what sensitivity I use right now
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? No max budget but prefer under 100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? I would like 4-6 additional buttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play? LoL,cs:go, bf4 ,WoW , day z those are my main games
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: easy to press buttons
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


If you don't lift mouse up often I think you should take a look at Razer Naga Hex.


----------



## CrusherW9

*1. What's your grip style?*
- Claw. I currently am using a Logitech M505 and find it to be pretty comfortable.
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
- Mid
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
- Under $100
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
- I don't NEED them, but I'm sure I would use them if I had them.
*5. What games do you play?*
- I mostly play FPS's with a decent amount of MOBA's thrown in.
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
- I really don't have an answer to this. I haven't used a mouse with no prediction so I can't say. A mouse that can turn it on and off would be nice, that way I can form an opinion.
*7. Other relevant information:*
- I'm looking for a wired mouse. Onboard memory is nice. I'm kind of ocd about installing things and minimizing running apps.


----------



## Dubbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Above8*
> 
> If you don't lift mouse up often I think you should take a look at Razer Naga Hex.


is that the moba one? i will have to take a look at it!


----------



## Above8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *valerious*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> High. 10cm/360
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Null.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Only side thumb buttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly competitive shooters - CSGO, COD4
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer zero prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Low LOD, ambidextrous shape (similar to the sensei in size which I currently use) driverless, onboard memory
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Would prefer optical sensors, such as the A3090 or the new 3310


I'd suggest you Kana v2 or Zowie AM.


----------



## Icefirealchemy

1. What's your grip style?
*Lazy* palm/fingertip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
in CS:GO 1.6 sens is 1.00.
That translates roughly to 20cm/360 degrees.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Sky's the limit. Actually I would like to pay less than 100 Euros

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2-3 max

5. What games do you play?
CS 1.6&GO Dota2 Path of Exile

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction please

7. Other relevant information:
I used to have 2 A4Tech gaming mice and I have a Logitech M510, a G9x and i recently bought a Anker 8000 Gaming Mouse (I got my money back for that piece of junk)
The G9x and the M510 were the best in terms of grip but they are both a little bit too heavy for my taste.
After reading countless pages of reviews about mice I've narrowed it down to these:
DA2013- I hate the idea of "activating" the mouse online though
Corsair M65- I think it's a bit lighter than G9x
Roccat Kone XTD
Steelseries Kana v2
Mionix Avior 7000 ?
It may be important to know that I usually move my mouse with a wrist movement and I rarely lift the mouse from the pad. My monitor has a native resolution of [email protected]
No wireless!
Right-handed or ambidextrous mouse would both be ok.
Thank you for your help.


----------



## grahad

Sounds like a Roccat Kone Pure Optical, given your style of grip, as DA/Rival might be too large.


----------



## aketolove

1. What's your grip style?
palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800 dpi current

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under 100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
using mx518 so 7-8 would be nice

5. What games do you play?
mmos, casual rts, rpgs, and occasionally fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No predictions please

7. Other relevant information:
Needs a smaller mouse then the mx518 logitech prefer a accurate mouse that is comfortable to hold and good quality.
My mx518 that is failing feel too big as it is I get muscle craps in my lower thumb area using it long hours.
Prefer a wired mouse but I am open to suggestions outside that just want something feels nice to palm and will not break in under then a year.

My hands are only 7in length by 3 1/2 width if that helps but yeah I am having issues from mixed reviews on mice suggested to others I have read so any insight would be great.


----------



## Z Overlord

I have a G400 that has developed the infamous cord issues. I heard you can send it in for a replacement but that sounds like it will just happen again given how common it is. Should I just get a more reliable mouse? I had no plans to replace my G400 until the usb issues began to occur.

This is the exact issue I have


----------



## aldfig0

The G400s has a cable strain relief that should reduce the likelihood of those problems occurring (if you want a mouse with similar dimensions and performance).


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0*
> 
> The G400s has a cable strain relief that should reduce the likelihood of those problems occurring (if you want a mouse with similar dimensions and performance).


thank you

what are the G400s native DPI's? I know for the G400 it's 800 DPI and 3600 DPI. Obviously 3600 is way too high, and I only want to use native DPI steps. Does the G400s also have a native DPI of 800?


----------



## aldfig0

According to the Logitech product rep it's 400, 800, 2000, 4000. So you're good.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1432197/should-i-get-a-g400-or-g400s-final-update-3-x-g400s-defective-in-a-row-asked-for-refund/10#post_20953109


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0*
> 
> According to the Logitech product rep it's 400, 800, 2000, 4000. So you're good.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1432197/should-i-get-a-g400-or-g400s-final-update-3-x-g400s-defective-in-a-row-asked-for-refund/10#post_20953109


thanks

some of the newegg reviews mention concern for the cord though:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104838


----------



## aldfig0

I glanced at the reviews and I only saw one person who actually had problems the cord, and that's because that person was purposely messing with it. The other reviews were concerned about the cord being too thin but as far as I know the problems with the G400 were not because the cord was too thin but rather there was no strain relief which causes problems if you yank on the cord (intentionally or accidentally).

I mean it's up to you whether you want to buy it or not. I just gave it as a suggestion because you're probably comfortable with the shape and performance of the G400. If I were you I would save some money and just get a replacement G400 and tape the cord to your table (with some slack) or something to prevent it from being yanked on and you'll be fine.


----------



## look

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *look*
> 
> Is there something with the M95's shape with fewer buttons? I can't imagine needing or even consistently being able to use that many. I probably need no more than 3 extra buttons, if that.


Anyone?


----------



## SchmoSalt

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
2000 DPI right now.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. At least two side buttons.

5. What games do you play?
FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No Prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Logitech is an absolute no-no.
A big mouse is comfortable.


----------



## slayeresc

*1. What's your grip style?*

Fingertip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

To be honest, I don't even know. I'm currently using a Logitech M215, which is too small for my liking, and is not what you would classify as a "gaming mouse". From what I've heard, 2000 dpi and higher is kinda excessive. I am a competitive gamer, so something a little more sensitive than what I have would help.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$70.00

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

8 buttons is the most I would ever need. In my opinion, anything above that is overkill, since the games I play don't even need that many.

*5. What games do you play?*

Minecraft, multiple FPS games

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I would prefer to have little to no mouse prediction. However, a mouse with adjustable mouse prediction (like the Steelseries Sensei) would work as well.

*7. Other relevant information:*

I would really like a left-handed gaming mouse, but an ambidextrous mouse would also work. The weight isn't so much of a problem, and it doesn't matter if it's wired or wireless, nor does the type of wire matter if it's wired.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Toxsick

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip/Palmgrim with fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?

between 1600 - 1750. ( lower for fps )

3. What's your maximum budget?

70$

4. Do you want additional buttons?

( left side )

5. What games do you play?

DotA 2 mostly.

7. Other relevant information:

right handed.

ive had the g300, Abyssus ( most favorite , but broke ) sensei, and the deathadder 2013 4G, Logitech G9. the shape's of these mice's were great except the deathadder and the sensei...
the g300 , Abyssus, did fit perfectly fine!! since i have small hands. the g9 was decent.. the palm grip was bit anoying but other than that it was ok.


----------



## orrinxu

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
5600 DPI (Max Setting on Mamba)

3. What's your maximum budget?
<70 AUD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No, back and forward is desirable though

5. What games do you play?
Dota2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't Know

7. Other relevant information:
Previously used MX518 at 1600DPI for 5 years. Upgraded to mamba but used it wired since the wireless on it is useless.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orrinxu*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 5600 DPI (Max Setting on Mamba)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> <70 AUD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> No, back and forward is desirable though
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't Know
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Previously used MX518 at 1600DPI for 5 years. Upgraded to mamba but used it wired since the wireless on it is useless.


If you would use 5,600 CPI and you could grip it, I recommend a DeathAdder 2013.


----------



## orrinxu

i must use claw since the mamba is the same design as the DeathAdder.

I heard the build quality on the DA is questionable which is why i was looking at either the G400/G500s. Can anyone comment on that?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orrinxu*
> 
> i must use claw since the mamba is the same design as the DeathAdder.
> 
> I heard the build quality on the DA is questionable which is why i was looking at either the G400/G500s. Can anyone comment on that?


Logitech makes great palm grip mice, can't say I enjoyed trying to use the G500 for claw (I tried it just to have an opinion on it, logitech makes great palm grip mice







)

*EDIT*
For claw, I strongly recommend the Corsair M90/95. I dont use claw grip but that mouse was made for claw and I enjoyed using it with such grip.


----------



## ben1066

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

Not entirely sure, I have no idea of the DPI of my current mouse, but moving from one side of my display to the other is about 4cm, 1920x1080 display.

3. What's your maximum budget?

~£50

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Just the normal 2 on the left

5. What games do you play?

Mostly Dota, sometimes FPS games and sometimes games like OpenTTD.

7. Other relevant information:

I'm right handed so ambidextrous or right handed mice are fine. I use Linux more than I do Windows so Linux support is preferable, from what I can tell Roccat and Zowie are good in this regard. Roccat due to their Linux drivers and Zowie because their mice are plug and play.


----------



## kepa416

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertrip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
W7 6/11 always 800 dpi in game ex. BF4 6%

3. What's your maximum budget?
unlimited

4. Do you want additional buttons?
only side button next and back
5. What games do you play?
BF4, BF3, CS:GO and LoL.

7. Other relevant information:
Looking for a well-done mouse. Now i use g400 is good for me but is old and scroll are broken. I tried a SS Rival is to long I think but.. Something was wrong i sell it.


----------



## D-Dow

2000


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D-Dow*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palmgrip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 2000
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> unlimited
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> yes
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Ghost Recon Online, Planetside 2
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I use Roccat Kone XTD, used to use Razer Deathadder...the calibration on the Roccat is phenomenal


Try the Logitech G602. I use it for games like Payday 2, Mechwarrior Online and MOBA games and it works excellent.

BTW, still on my first set of batteries for the G602, if anyone is interested. Just hit 20% on Friday, probably gunna change em next month.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kepa416*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertrip grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> W7 6/11 always 800 dpi in game ex. BF4 6%
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> unlimited
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> only side button next and back
> 5. What games do you play?
> BF4, BF3, CS:GO and LoL.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Looking for a well-done mouse. Now i use g400 is good for me but is old and scroll are broken. I tried a SS Rival is to long I think but.. Something was wrong i sell it.


Time for a refresh then. Go take a look at the G400s. Exact same shape, just improved slightly.


----------



## sindraim

1. What's your grip style?
Claw grip (others are counter-intuitive, even)

2. What's your sensitivity?
I've been using these low-DPI 5$ mice for a while so I can't tell about this one.

3. What's your maximum budget?
90 EU

4. Do you want additional buttons?
3 make me happy enough but I wouldn't say no to more (just not anything excessive)

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2, CSGO at the moment.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Nope.

7. Other relevant information: I'm currently indecisive between the SS Sensei and Rival, but please do recommend others. If I went with a Sensei + QcK I'd come out with exactly 90 EU but a Rival + QcK does 70. The fact that the Sensei only handles the SS Engine 2 is kind of a letdown as I heard it's not the most stable software out there.


----------



## chadrew

Looking for a fingertip grip mouse, these are my priorities:

Small & light
Good sensor
Optical with 800 DPI step
Short (wide is fine, I just don't want it to be long like, say, G400)
Don't mind prediction either way. Side buttons would be preferred, but not crucial. Price doesn't matter, but I don't expect non-laser mice to be very expensive.

Feel free to suggest a mouse even if it doesn't match all that stuff I listed









I've been using a Roccat Pyra for the past year. I like the shape, size, and the sensor is OK, but it has terrible build quality and is no longer usable. I'd buy a new one, but it's discontinued... So now I'm using CM Xornet. It's also OK in most regards, but I don't like the DPI steps (500 is too low, 1,000 is too high). I'd get a CM Spawn for different DPI steps, but it's apparently discontinued as well.


----------



## H1ghlander

Hello, Could you recomend me something? Please.

details:
current mouse: MS WMO 1.1. 400dpi @500Hz (previous DA 3G 1800dpi)
resolutions in game: 1920x1200
grip: mostly finger grip (can I change it maybe?)
My hand is about 20cm lenght, from the middle about 13cm
sensitivity: 3.4 quake live, accel about 0.06
~30cm/360
windows: 6/11 or raw input
fps games
mousepad: SS Qck+ (previous Goliathus Speed was better)
amount of buttons: don't care
sensor: need to be perfect, no prediction, no angle snapping, no jittering etc.
only wired and optical
prefered light than heavy
LoD, WMO got low, DA high I can handle both
budget: would like to know all possibilities

I liked WMO and DA shape, but would like to have lighter mouse.
In my office O have Logitech M-BT58
http://gimg.dt00.net/goods/503/50352/497905big.jpg
seems to be comfortable too for me. Maybe g100s could be good for me too?

I was considering SS Kana v2, Zowie EC1 evo, Zowie AM, Zowie FK, Logitech g100s...

Which will be best for me?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chadrew*
> 
> Looking for a fingertip grip mouse, these are my priorities:
> 
> Small & light
> Good sensor
> Optical with 800 DPI step
> Short (wide is fine, I just don't want it to be long like, say, G400)
> Don't mind prediction either way. Side buttons would be preferred, but not crucial. Price doesn't matter, but I don't expect non-laser mice to be very expensive.
> 
> Feel free to suggest a mouse even if it doesn't match all that stuff I listed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using a Roccat Pyra for the past year. I like the shape, size, and the sensor is OK, but it has terrible build quality and is no longer usable. I'd buy a new one, but it's discontinued... So now I'm using CM Xornet. It's also OK in most regards, but I don't like the DPI steps (500 is too low, 1,000 is too high). I'd get a CM Spawn for different DPI steps, but it's apparently discontinued as well.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Cheers for the insight, repped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still looking for additional input from the rest of the community too.


SS Kana or Kinzu might be something for you.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H1ghlander*
> 
> Hello, Could you recomend me something? Please.
> 
> details:
> current mouse: MS WMO 1.1. 400dpi @500Hz (previous DA 3G 1800dpi)
> resolutions in game: 1920x1200
> grip: mostly finger grip (can I change it maybe?)
> My hand is about 20cm lenght, from the middle about 13cm
> sensitivity: 3.4 quake live, accel about 0.06
> ~30cm/360
> windows: 6/11 or raw input
> fps games
> mousepad: SS Qck+ (previous Goliathus Speed was better)
> amount of buttons: don't care
> sensor: need to be perfect, no prediction, no angle snapping, no jittering etc.
> only wired and optical
> prefered light than heavy
> LoD, WMO got low, DA high I can handle both
> budget: would like to know all possibilities
> 
> I liked WMO and DA shape, but would like to have lighter mouse.
> In my office O have Logitech M-BT58
> http://gimg.dt00.net/goods/503/50352/497905big.jpg
> seems to be comfortable too for me. Maybe g100s could be good for me too?
> 
> I was considering SS Kana v2, Zowie EC1 evo, Zowie AM, Zowie FK, Logitech g100s...
> 
> Which will be best for me?


There are lots of mice that fit your needs, since essentially all your asking for is a light mouse with a good sensor.
FK is a option but might be to thin for you . Kana V2 should be the closest to the WMO shape you are used to.
G100s has the same shape as your office mouse and is light once you removed the weight.
Only problem with G100s is it doesnt have a 3090 sensor, but the only problem with the sensor it uses is relatively low max control speed which shouldn't be a problem with 30/360cm.
Abyssus has the same sensor as the DA and is much lighter. Just need to find a jitter free version








Don't know how light the EC1 is, but EC2 should be lighter but might be to small for you.
AM is heavier than the others but still on the lighter side. It's also quite close to the WMO in terms of shape.
BIG Salmosa maybe? Basically a jitter free Abyssus I guess.

But yeah, all the mice you suggested are solid choices, so it all comes down to what shape you like the most.


----------



## H1ghlander

Damnit... the problem is the best will be to try some of them at shop, but don't know where








But problem is my hands are not that small and I have fingergrip, so small mice are not good, but for finger grip should be light mouse. ;p so should be guite big and light ;]

yea I know DA and WMO shape... so its hard to say if other shape... for eg. G400 will be comfortable, I think not, looks weird for me.

here is comparison of Zowie mice:
http://static.esportsea.com/global/images/content_images/10267.png
Forgot to mention about AM, it seems to be lighter.

SS kana 2 was my first thought... also is cheaper than Zowies, so maybe i will get one. And takasta got similiar hands and like it xD
http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelseries-kana-v2-review-by-takasta-updated-white-version

WMO got low max speed too







Abyssus could be too short.

Thanks. Will try to check somewhere some of tchem in real ;p


----------



## schmectite

*1. What's your grip style?
*
Mainly palm, but that's more a function of the mouse than anything. I have pretty small hands, so it's hard to do anything else on most mice. In other words, I'm not married to it.

*2. What's your sensitivity?
*
Generally low (400-800), though I do use as high as 3k on occasion

*3. What's your maximum budget?
*
$100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?
*
Yes. Dpi switches and at least 3 additional buttons (I use everything on my current G500)

*5. What games do you play?
*
Mainly FPS, but a bit of everything else.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*
I'd prefer not to have it, but it's not a deal breaker.

*7. Other relevant information:
*
I have lady hands; the G500 is a bit bigger than I'd like. Mice I'm considering at the moment: G500 (bigger than I like, but great otherwise), CM Storm Havoc (same issues as G500), G602. I'm leaning towards the 602.


----------



## eijji

_1. What's your grip style?_
Palm and sometimes claw.

_2. What's your sensitivity?_
400/800 DPI, Generally 1.5 in game.

_3. What's your maximum budget?_
$75.

_4. Do you want additional buttons?_
Whatever.

_5. What games do you play?_
Mainly RTS and osu!, but sometimes I play FPS.

_6. Do you mind about prediction?_
I'd rather not have.

_7. Other relevant information:_
I prefer an optical mouse and I have medium/small hands, and because of that I would need a mouse that is not large or heavy.


----------



## schmectite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eijji*
> 
> _1. What's your grip style?_
> Palm and sometimes claw.
> 
> _2. What's your sensitivity?_
> 400/800 DPI, Generally 1.5 in game.
> 
> _3. What's your maximum budget?_
> $75.
> 
> _4. Do you want additional buttons?_
> Whatever.
> 
> _5. What games do you play?_
> Mainly RTS and osu!, but sometimes I play FPS.
> 
> _6. Do you mind about prediction?_
> I'd rather not have.
> 
> _7. Other relevant information:_
> I prefer an optical mouse and I have medium/small hands, and because of that I would need a mouse that is not large or heavy.


Roccat Kone Pure Optical or G400s, perhaps?


----------



## Teusku

I've been thinking about getting a new mouse for a while now, since the tracking speeds on my IME1.1a and G400 don't feel like they're enough. Although seeing people praise the G400 control speed makes me believe that my G400 is broken.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low. 50+cm/360 low.

3. What's your maximum budget?
About 100€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 extra buttons would be nice, but not absolutely necessary.

5. What games do you play?
Mostly FPS and Osu!

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Slight prediction doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get in the way too much.

7. Other relevant information:
Control speed. My sensitivity is really low which leads to long swipes and high speeds, so I need to mouse to keep up with it without going ape****.
Also I've always liked small lightweight ambidextrous mice, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm really held back from buying the Deathadder 2013 or a new G400.
Weight is really one thing that I have a problem with, especially with mice like the G400 that weight well over 120 grams.
As a guideline to what I'm looking for, Kinzu is a really nice mouse, but with it's fair share of tracking problems it's not really an option itself.

EDIT: added a bit more preferences


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Teusku*
> 
> I've been thinking about getting a new mouse for a while now, since the tracking speeds on my IME1.1a and G400 don't feel like they're enough. Although seeing people praise the G400 control speed makes me believe that my G400 is broken.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low. 50+cm/360 low.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> About 100€
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 extra buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly FPS and Osu!
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Slight prediction doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get in the way too much.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Control speed. My sensitivity is really low which leads to long swipes and high speeds, so I need to mouse to keep up with it without going ape****.
> Also I've always liked small ambidextrous mice, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm really held back from buying the Deathadder 2013 or a new G400.


You dont like them because they are both palm / palm hybrid grip mice. Try something like the Corsiar M90/M95 or see if you can find an old Razer Diamondback.


----------



## Teusku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> You dont like them because they are both palm / palm hybrid grip mice. Try something like the Corsiar M90/M95 or see if you can find an old Razer Diamondback.


The Corsair mice weights way too much. And also the shape of the mice is not a problem on the IME1.1a, but as for the G400 and Deathadder then yeah, the shape doesn't really suit me.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Teusku*
> 
> I've been thinking about getting a new mouse for a while now, since the tracking speeds on my IME1.1a and G400 don't feel like they're enough. Although seeing people praise the G400 control speed makes me believe that my G400 is broken.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low. 50+cm/360 low.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> About 100€
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 extra buttons would be nice, but not absolutely necessary.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly FPS and Osu!
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Slight prediction doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get in the way too much.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Control speed. My sensitivity is really low which leads to long swipes and high speeds, so I need to mouse to keep up with it without going ape****.
> Also I've always liked small lightweight ambidextrous mice, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm really held back from buying the Deathadder 2013 or a new G400.
> Weight is really one thing that I have a problem with, especially with mice like the G400 that weight well over 120 grams.
> As a guideline to what I'm looking for, Kinzu is a really nice mouse, but with it's fair share of tracking problems it's not really an option itself.
> 
> EDIT: added a bit more preferences


G400 weight around 105 gram without cable. I use G400 with pretty low sens of ~67cm/360. I got no problem with the tracking speeds, it has never failed for me. If you use hard pads Razer Abyssus would probably be great for you, and if you use cloth buy one and pray to god it doesn't jitter. Check out SS Kana V2, Roccat Kone Pure Optical and Roccat Savu as well.


----------



## DavyCrockett

Hello. I'm looking for a mouse to replace my 14 month old RAT MMO 7 mouse.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, but I am not limited to it.
2. What's your sensitivity?
600 to 800 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?
There is none
4. Do you want additional buttons?
I do. 6 to 7. Ideally several to be used by my thumb, and 2-3 used by my finger(s).
5. What games do you play?
Dota2, Quake, BF, Misc of other games.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
None if it can be helped.
7. Other relevant information:
I do not care for a wire, if one mouse is better wireless or wired it does not matter. I move around and game a lot, been able to take my mouse with me and have my buttons work without having to install software would be great, but not a necessity. Customization would be preferred along with illumination, but not needed. If it would possible to have finger/pinky rest also.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> Hello. I'm looking for a mouse to replace my 14 month old RAT MMO 7 mouse.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, but I am not limited to it.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 600 to 800 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> There is none
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I do. 6 to 7. Ideally several to be used by my thumb, and 2-3 used by my finger(s).
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota2, Quake, BF, Misc of other games.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> None if it can be helped.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I do not care for a wire, if one mouse is better wireless or wired it does not matter. I move around and game a lot, been able to take my mouse with me and have my buttons work without having to install software would be great, but not a necessity. Customization would be preferred along with illumination, but not needed. If it would possible to have finger/pinky rest also.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


G700s sounds exactly right for you. The 8200 CPI VSCEL laser does have 1-5 percent acceleration so if you play FPS with a very low sensitivity you might feel it. Just a warning, I hardly notice it in my Sensei but it's definitely there.

EDIT: oops, yeah forgot about the G602. That's probably your best bet since it's also an optical mouse with 1:1 tracking. I'm with ADHDadditiv


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> Hello. I'm looking for a mouse to replace my 14 month old RAT MMO 7 mouse.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, but I am not limited to it.
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 600 to 800 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> There is none
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I do. 6 to 7. Ideally several to be used by my thumb, and 2-3 used by my finger(s).
> 5. What games do you play?
> Dota2, Quake, BF, Misc of other games.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> None if it can be helped.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I do not care for a wire, if one mouse is better wireless or wired it does not matter. I move around and game a lot, been able to take my mouse with me and have my buttons work without having to install software would be great, but not a necessity. Customization would be preferred along with illumination, but not needed. If it would possible to have finger/pinky rest also.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Well from personal experience, I went from the MMO7 to the Logitech G602 and Im super happy with it. You will like the G602 if you like the MMO7. Great response time, tons of buttons, great software (better, IMO, then the Cyborg stuff) and much more durable without that flaky failure of a sensor in the MMO7.

So basically I highly recommend the G602.


----------



## DavyCrockett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G700s sounds exactly right for you. The 8200 CPI VSCEL laser does have 1-5 percent acceleration so if you play FPS with a very low sensitivity you might feel it. Just a warning, I hardly notice it in my Sensei but it's definitely there.
> 
> EDIT: oops, yeah forgot about the G602. That's probably your best bet since it's also an optical mouse with 1:1 tracking. I'm with ADHDadditiv


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G700s sounds exactly right for you. The 8200 CPI VSCEL laser does have 1-5 percent acceleration so if you play FPS with a very low sensitivity you might feel it. Just a warning, I hardly notice it in my Sensei but it's definitely there.
> 
> EDIT: oops, yeah forgot about the G602. That's probably your best bet since it's also an optical mouse with 1:1 tracking. I'm with ADHDadditiv


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G700s sounds exactly right for you. The 8200 CPI VSCEL laser does have 1-5 percent acceleration so if you play FPS with a very low sensitivity you might feel it. Just a warning, I hardly notice it in my Sensei but it's definitely there.
> 
> EDIT: oops, yeah forgot about the G602. That's probably your best bet since it's also an optical mouse with 1:1 tracking. I'm with ADHDadditiv


That mouse seems nice. Thanks a lot mates, I'll most likely get this one. Cheers


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> That mouse seems nice. Thanks a lot mates, I'll most likely get this one. Cheers


Which one? Two were mentioned in that post haha.


----------



## DavyCrockett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Which one? Two were mentioned in that post haha.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DavyCrockett*
> 
> That mouse seems nice. Thanks a lot mates, I'll most likely get this one. Cheers


Sorry for the multi quote, I tried to have both of you in but I couldn't edit my post after.

The G602 seems really nice, It has enough buttons for me to use and should looks like it will fit my hard nicely. If you have any other suggestions I'm open, I have 18 days to pick so I have a lot of time to think it over.


----------



## metal571

Great. G602 has the better overall sensor. CPI count as usual, means nothing.


----------



## Scrimstar

Where can I get the cheapest G400/G400s or SS Rival?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Where can I get the cheapest G400/G400s or SS Rival?


http://bit.ly/1lF4fMd


----------



## Scrimstar

ahaha thanks? well I can get the G400s for ~$40 and the SS Rival for ~$70. which one is more comfortable to squeeze? Also I heard there might be slight lag with these mice?


----------



## Toxsick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> ahaha thanks? well I can get the G400s for ~$40 and the SS Rival for ~$70. which one is more comfortable to squeeze? Also I heard there might be slight lag with these mice?


depends... i dont think the rival is for peoplee with med-small sized hands.. its looks big.
go with the g400s. at 40$ nothing beats it.


----------



## karupt

1. What's your grip style?
hybrid

2. What's your sensitivity?
i prefer the default?(400 i think?)

3. What's your maximum budget?
150$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
just the 2 on the left

5. What games do you play?
firefox

6. Do you mind about prediction?
don't care

7. Other relevant information:
the scroll wheel click must not be hard. the scroll wheel should not be loud

My all time best mouse was the logitech mx400. They don't make it anymore. It's current version, the m500 has the lousy hyperscroll which is too loose in hyperscroll mode and too clickyity-clack and hard in regular mode. I'd like a nice scrolling mouse wheel.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karupt*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> hybrid
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> i prefer the default?(400 i think?)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 150$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> just the 2 on the left
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> firefox
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> don't care
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> the scroll wheel click must not be hard. the scroll wheel should not be loud
> 
> My all time best mouse was the logitech mx400. They don't make it anymore. It's current version, the m500 has the lousy hyperscroll which is too loose in hyperscroll mode and too clickyity-clack and hard in regular mode. I'd like a nice scrolling mouse wheel.


EBay the MX400? Im sure someone out there is selling one.


----------



## 0m3g4

So I am currently using a g9x with the rough (smaller) grip, I absolutely love this mouse. I have 22g added of "tuning weights" added to it, I do like a somewhat heavy mouse ( not required). I want to try an optical mouse with 0 prediction.

1. What's your grip style?
I have a fingertip style grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
windows setting 6, mouse dpi set at 1100-1200

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
yes, 5-7 depends on placement. I think 5 would be optimum ( right/left click, 2 thumb buttons, and scroll press).

5. What games do you play?
I mainly play FPS games, occasionally RTS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would like to try a mouse without prediction, I want my mouse to be as true as possible.

7. mouse surface?
I use a cloth surface, I am looking into getting the SS qck+

I have tried a couple creative fatality ( horrible), MS 5000 wireless, g500. I don't like the full palm grip, once I found the g9 I have used that till it died, then went to the g9x.
A couple of mice that I have looked into mionix avoir 7000, CM spawn storm, and some zowie mice. I do not want any razer products, nothing against them just not interested.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> So I am currently using a g9x with the rough (smaller) grip, I absolutely love this mouse. I have 22g added of "tuning weights" added to it, I do like a somewhat heavy mouse ( not required). I want to try an optical mouse with 0 prediction.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I have a fingertip style grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> windows setting 6, mouse dpi set at 1100-1200
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> yes, 5-7 depends on placement. I think 5 would be optimum ( right/left click, 2 thumb buttons, and scroll press).
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> I mainly play FPS games, occasionally RTS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I would like to try a mouse without prediction, I want my mouse to be as true as possible.
> 
> 7. mouse surface?
> I use a cloth surface, I am looking into getting the SS qck+
> 
> I have tried a couple creative fatality ( horrible), MS 5000 wireless, g500. I don't like the full palm grip, once I found the g9 I have used that till it died, then went to the g9x.
> A couple of mice that I have looked into mionix avoir 7000, CM spawn storm, and some zowie mice. I do not want any razer products, nothing against them just not interested.


SS Kana V2 or Zowie FK, both are mainly for fingertip. Never tried the Spawn. Avior is pretty heavy, I don't use fingertip but I can imagine a mouse that's over 100 gram is not preferable for fingertip.


----------



## 0m3g4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> SS Kana V2 or Zowie FK, both are mainly for fingertip. Never tried the Spawn. Avior is pretty heavy, I don't use fingertip but I can imagine a mouse that's over 100 gram is not preferable for fingertip.


I rather like a weighty mouse, I believe my current g9x is around 120g, so I think the avior is still on the table.
I just don't want to drop $80 on a mouse and absolutely hate it.


----------



## Toxsick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> I rather like a weighty mouse, I believe my current g9x is around 120g, so I think the avoir is still on the table.
> I just don't want to drop $80 on a mouse and absolutely hate it.


is there a big difference between the g9 and GX9?


----------



## 0m3g4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toxsick*
> 
> is there a big difference between the g9 and GX9?


weight wise? no
Feature wise I think it was just an updated laser.
my original g9 died, and was out of production.

So I am looking at the roccat kone pure optical vs the avior, which has the better sensor?
Can owners of either of these mice chime in?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Toxsick*
> 
> is there a big difference between the g9 and GX9?
> 
> 
> 
> weight wise? no
> Feature wise I think it was just an updated laser.
> my original g9 died, and was out of production.
> 
> So I am looking at the roccat kone pure optical vs the avior, which has the better sensor?
> Can owners of either of these mice chime in?
Click to expand...

I have a SteelSeries Rival (same sensor as the Avior 7000) and a G400s (same sensor as the KPO). Get the Avior. Trust me. Especially if you're a low sensitivity FPS gamer.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> I rather like a weighty mouse, I believe my current g9x is around 120g, so I think the avior is still on the table.
> I just don't want to drop $80 on a mouse and absolutely hate it.


Take a look at the Corsair M95. I found it to be a great, well built claw/fingertip grip mouse.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight*
> 
> Hi! Everyone, I am a newcomer to this forum. Recently, I have been watching this forum and this box for over 3-4 weeks because I am actually having some problems with my Razer Imperator and Steel Series 4HD.
> 
> My first mouse was Logitech MX518 which I bought in 2007 and it was dead half year ago. The symptom was the mouse stopped working every minutes or hours and every times I turn the mouse over, the red optical lights turn off and on again. I thought the mouse would want to retire at that time.
> 
> After that I bought the Razer Imperator 3.5G (actually I wanted to buy Razer DeathAdder 3.5G but unfortunately the shop where I bought the mouse sold out the Razer DeathAdder so I was so hurry and picked up the Imperator). I made a mistake that I bought Imperator without checking or reading all of the reviews carefully. This Imperator was really a pain in the ass. Look like this mouse has all of the mouse problems such as mouse acceleration, jitter, shaking, lift off issue, axis lock, turn off randomly, what's else ^;.;^ ? I updated the mouse to the newest firmware 1.16 and driver 1.02 but these problems have been wandering around and it was really annoying.
> 
> Then I bought SteelSeries 4HD last week and hope that could tackle the mouse problem but you know, it could not. The tracking is still not good and unprecise.
> 
> So I decide to buy a new mouse and give this stupid annoying mouse to my brother. At least this mouse is bad quality but using it for normal activities on computer such as Word, Web or something like that is fine.
> 
> Next mouse, I trust in you guys. Please help me buy a perfect mouse. Thanks!
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm grip and Fingertips Grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Well, I am not sure but my Windows desktop sensitivity is 6 and in game is about below 2 in CSS. I usually use high DPI such as 800-1600.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? about 100-150$.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes about 7-8 buttons are good enough for me.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? CSS, Warcraft III and sometimes other games such as point and click games.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Maybe, but recently I am learning Photoshop so I think prediction relates to my requirement too. You know but this is not an important matter.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> LOD (don't know what this is?) Maybe lift of distance huh? 2-3 cm I guess. Ambidextrous shape: Right hand mouse and I don't mind to try both hand mouse.
> Weight: don't mind about this.
> Wireless: I prefer a wire mouse to wireless mouse.
> Non-braided cord (don't know what this is?)
> Glossy finish: No, I want a rough side mouse to help me use the mouse for a long time without sliding.
> Button activation force (don't know about what this is?)
> Driverless: driver or not is not really a matter but the mouse must work well without out driver.
> onboard memory: Yes
> 
> I am paying attention to Logitech G500 and SteelSeries Sensei but Sensei have announced and maybe hasn't sale on my country yet and the price has been still unknown either.
> 
> Thank for reading this post and if I made some English mistakes, please forgive me because English is not my native language.


I would get the Steelseries Rival. You can customize the prediction, change the CPI on the fly (great for Photoshop), it's EXTREMELY comfortable to palm, and has an extremely good optical sensor.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SchmoSalt*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 2000 DPI right now.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. At least two side buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No Prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Logitech is an absolute no-no.
> A big mouse is comfortable.


You want a 60$ big and comfortable FPS optical gaming mouse without prediction? Steelseries Rival is your friend









It is 61$, but I guess you can spend ONE more dollar? haha

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G6IJ5QK/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d1_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0AQSEGK30NGKDFV457HE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200422&pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> You want a 60$ big and comfortable FPS optical gaming mouse without prediction? Steelseries Rival is your friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is 61$, but I guess you can spend ONE more dollar? haha
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G6IJ5QK/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d1_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0AQSEGK30NGKDFV457HE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200422&pf_rd_i=507846


I got mine from here. This from is Newegg's eBay account. It's 59.99, no tax or shipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SteelSeries-Rival-62271-Optical-Mouse-/291059115954?pt=Mice&hash=item43c479a7b2


----------



## 0m3g4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I have a SteelSeries Rival (same sensor as the Avior 7000) and a G400s (same sensor as the KPO). Get the Avior. Trust me. Especially if you're a low sensitivity FPS gamer.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


so if I cranked up the dpi on the mouse and lowered the sensitivity in game would it cause an issue with the avior 7000?
Is there something wrong with the roccat kone pure opt? I like the software suite that comes with the roccat kone.
Does anyone know if mionix has a good software suire?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> so if I cranked up the dpi on the mouse and lowered the sensitivity in game would it cause an issue with the avior 7000?
> Is there something wrong with the roccat kone pure opt? I like the software suite that comes with the roccat kone.
> Does anyone know if mionix has a good software suire?


I can answer the first question. If you don't go above 5000 CPI, you should (if the firmware is decent which it should be) have exactly the same max PCS and performance, somewhere upwards of 5 m/s as if you used a much lower CPI setting. The KPO will max out around 3.5-4 m/s most likely. IIRC some people have said that that mouse in particular is pretty picky about surfaces, too. Roccat does have awesome software, but the 3090 is just old tech now if you ask me.

There's an entire thread about the Avior 7000, should be some info in there.


----------



## 0m3g4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I can answer the first question. If you don't go above 5000 CPI, you should (if the firmware is decent which it should be) have exactly the same max PCS and performance, somewhere upwards of 5 m/s as if you used a much lower CPI setting. The KPO will max out around 3.5-4 m/s most likely. IIRC some people have said that that mouse in particular is pretty picky about surfaces, too. Roccat does have awesome software, but the 3090 is just old tech now if you ask me.
> 
> There's an entire thread about the Avior 7000, should be some info in there.


Man I was completely sold on the roccat kone pure opt ( mainly due to the dude in the videos super convincing voice lol), but I think I will give this mionix a go. I guess I can always sell it if I hate it, and get the pure opt.


----------



## fleetfeather

Really diggin my ec1 evo cl.... So comfy haha


----------



## dlano

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster and would like some opinions, but first:

*1. What's your grip style?* Palm

*2. What's your sensitivity?* 800dpi (lowest available on my mouse) roughly 29cm 360deg in bf4 atm so lowish

*3. What's your maximum budget?* High enough for most premium mice and options found bellow

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* Usual two extra thumb buttons minimum, any extra is nice but not essential

*5. What games do you play?* FPS, specifically BF4 currently

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, no prediction or accel of any kind preferably

*7. Other relevant information:* Currently coming from a Mionix Naos 3200 which was a massive leap from a Razer Lachesis 3.5G previous to that. The naos was bought based on a great review from a hardware site I use, and for over a year found it a massive improvement while playing a mix of bf3 and csgo, however when bf4 came out I started getting more into competitive play and started noticing a few oddities. Sure enough more in depth research revealed prediction which seemed pretty noticable in regular play, and the LOD felt quite higher than I'd like.

My research has bought up these options:
Naos 7000 - great sensor and I liked the shape of the 3200 although it was maybe a little small for me
SS Rival - Same sensor as Naos, seems bigger and the design looks interesting
Zowie EC1 eVo - Big IME3-like design which I like, seems popular for low sens players
Deathadder - Love hate relationship with Razer, haven't used a DA since about 2008 briefly but it was pretty comfy to use straight away
Not a fan of logitech products

I currently use a SS QCK heavy mat and any other mouse options welcome. Basically I want the best low sens FPS mouse possible, but I'm happy to answer anything else.
Thanks in advance


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Hey, long time lurker, first time poster and would like some opinions, but first:
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?* Palm
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* 800dpi (lowest available on my mouse) roughly 29cm 360deg in bf4 atm so lowish
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* High enough for most premium mice and options found bellow
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* Usual two extra thumb buttons minimum, any extra is nice but not essential
> 
> *5. What games do you play?* FPS, specifically BF4 currently
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, no prediction or accel of any kind preferably
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:* Currently coming from a Mionix Naos 3200 which was a massive leap from a Razer Lachesis 3.5G previous to that. The naos was bought based on a great review from a hardware site I use, and for over a year found it a massive improvement while playing a mix of bf3 and csgo, however when bf4 came out I started getting more into competitive play and started noticing a few oddities. Sure enough more in depth research revealed prediction which seemed pretty noticable in regular play, and the LOD felt quite higher than I'd like.
> Take a look at the Logitech mice. They are fantastic palm mice. The G400s is a great mouse, same as the G500. But for you, I would recommend the same mouse I have, the G602. Fantastic sensor, no accel as far as I can tell, optical, battery life is unreal. I bought mine about 3-4 months ago now, and I just replaced them last week. I game for probably 4-6 hours a day with its overall use totalling 12 hours. So at least 12 hours a day, lasting about 3 and a half months on 2 batteries is insane. You might not like the weight of it though.
> 
> My research has bought up these options:
> Naos 7000 - great sensor and I liked the shape of the 3200 although it was maybe a little small for me
> SS Rival - Same sensor as Naos, seems bigger and the design looks interesting
> Zowie EC1 eVo - Big IME3-like design which I like, seems popular for low sens players
> Deathadder - Love hate relationship with Razer, haven't used a DA since about 2008 briefly but it was pretty comfy to use straight away
> Not a fan of logitech products
> 
> I currently use a SS QCK heavy mat and any other mouse options welcome. Basically I want the best low sens FPS mouse possible, but I'm happy to answer anything else.
> Thanks in advance


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Logitech mice. They are fantastic palm mice. The G400s is a great mouse, same as the G500. But for you, I would recommend the same mouse I have, the G602. Fantastic sensor, no accel as far as I can tell, optical, battery life is unreal. I bought mine about 3-4 months ago now, and I just replaced them last week. I game for probably 4-6 hours a day with its overall use totalling 12 hours. So at least 12 hours a day, lasting about 3 and a half months on 2 batteries is insane. You might not like the weight of it though.


I didn't think a wireless mouse would be at a competitive response time by now, but yeah sadly not a fan of logitech, any product of theirs I've used has tended to give me issues. It doesn't seem too bad, weight isn't an issue but the tracking speed seems a tad alarming at 2m/s since I know with my current settings I can go over that at times


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Hey, long time lurker, first time poster and would like some opinions, but first:
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?* Palm
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* 800dpi (lowest available on my mouse) roughly 29cm 360deg in bf4 atm so lowish
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* High enough for most premium mice and options found bellow
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* Usual two extra thumb buttons minimum, any extra is nice but not essential
> 
> *5. What games do you play?* FPS, specifically BF4 currently
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, no prediction or accel of any kind preferably
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:* Currently coming from a Mionix Naos 3200 which was a massive leap from a Razer Lachesis 3.5G previous to that. The naos was bought based on a great review from a hardware site I use, and for over a year found it a massive improvement while playing a mix of bf3 and csgo, however when bf4 came out I started getting more into competitive play and started noticing a few oddities. Sure enough more in depth research revealed prediction which seemed pretty noticable in regular play, and the LOD felt quite higher than I'd like.
> 
> My research has bought up these options:
> 
> I think you'd like the Steelseries Rival since you palm.
> Naos 7000 - great sensor and I liked the shape of the 3200 although it was maybe a little small for me
> SS Rival - Same sensor as Naos, seems bigger and the design looks interesting
> Zowie EC1 eVo - Big IME3-like design which I like, seems popular for low sens players
> Deathadder - Love hate relationship with Razer, haven't used a DA since about 2008 briefly but it was pretty comfy to use straight away
> Not a fan of logitech products
> 
> I currently use a SS QCK heavy mat and any other mouse options welcome. Basically I want the best low sens FPS mouse possible, but I'm happy to answer anything else.
> Thanks in advance


----------



## dlano

Yeah the Rival seemed the pretty likely candidate, it's generated quite a buzz it seems.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Hey, long time lurker, first time poster and would like some opinions, but first:
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?* Palm
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* 800dpi (lowest available on my mouse) roughly 29cm 360deg in bf4 atm so lowish
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* High enough for most premium mice and options found bellow
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* Usual two extra thumb buttons minimum, any extra is nice but not essential
> 
> *5. What games do you play?* FPS, specifically BF4 currently
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, no prediction or accel of any kind preferably
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:* Currently coming from a Mionix Naos 3200 which was a massive leap from a Razer Lachesis 3.5G previous to that. The naos was bought based on a great review from a hardware site I use, and for over a year found it a massive improvement while playing a mix of bf3 and csgo, however when bf4 came out I started getting more into competitive play and started noticing a few oddities. Sure enough more in depth research revealed prediction which seemed pretty noticable in regular play, and the LOD felt quite higher than I'd like.
> 
> My research has bought up these options:
> Naos 7000 - great sensor and I liked the shape of the 3200 although it was maybe a little small for me
> SS Rival - Same sensor as Naos, seems bigger and the design looks interesting
> Zowie EC1 eVo - Big IME3-like design which I like, seems popular for low sens players
> Deathadder - Love hate relationship with Razer, haven't used a DA since about 2008 briefly but it was pretty comfy to use straight away
> Not a fan of logitech products
> 
> I currently use a SS QCK heavy mat and any other mouse options welcome. Basically I want the best low sens FPS mouse possible, but I'm happy to answer anything else.
> Thanks in advance


I'll one-up you. I also play BF4 but I use a (some people call it crazy) 60cm/360. I just bought the Rival, and let me tell you...you can't do any better than this. For you I'd say it would be a toss up between the Avior 7000, Rival, and Naos 7000. They all use the same absolutely awesome sensor. I have hit (with much arm pain) 5 m/s consistently on Enotus with the Rival, which is ******* bonkers. They're awesome, all 3 of those, thanks to the 3310 sensor. Take your pick.


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'll one-up you. I also play BF4 but I use a (some people call it crazy) 60cm/360. I just bought the Rival, and let me tell you...you can't do any better than this. For you I'd say it would be a toss up between the Avior 7000, Rival, and Naos 7000. They all use the same absolutely awesome sensor. I have hit (with much arm pain) 5 m/s consistently on Enotus with the Rival, which is ******* bonkers. They're awesome, all 3 of those, thanks to the 3310 sensor. Take your pick.


Its funny, I've a good friend I usually play most games with, and whenever he used my comp he'd ask how I cope with such a low sens setting, and I'd tell him mines pretty high compared to some CS pros and such and he never believes me so thanks for making me feel more normal







that's pretty insane mouse speed there, I was bringing my sens down but the more I did the more I noticed the angle snap on my 3200 so I've left it as it is for a while.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Its funny, I've a good friend I usually play most games with, and whenever he used my comp he'd ask how I cope with such a low sens setting, and I'd tell him mines pretty high compared to some CS pros and such and he never believes me so thanks for making me feel more normal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's pretty insane mouse speed there, I was bringing my sens down but the more I did the more I noticed the angle snap on my 3200 so I've left it as it is for a while.


You'll have no issue with the Rival. I've been playing FPS for over 6 years now and have logged thousands of hours...used tons of different mice. The Rival is the best one I've used. It's not just a love for the company at all, really. They have a long history of releasing flawed mice. I thought I was gonna stick with the Sensei, actually, but then I started really noticing how I overshot people on sniper flickshots due to the inconsistent positive accel. Couldn't take it anymore, switched to the Rival, and just WOW. They aren't lying about the 200 inches per second...this mouse will easily do more than 5 m/s, but it literally hurts my arm to swipe a mouse that fast. It's almost like trying to pitch a baseball kind of speeds. And that's not even the limit...

Don't even wait. Get a 3310 mouse, they're perfect for low sens, high skill FPS. I have a friend who plays CS:GO competitively, and he settled on the same mouse. The Rival is mind-blowing. Last I checked, some of Fnatic's players also picked it up. The Avior is really freaking good, also, as at least some members of the other thread about that mouse will attest.

BTW my Origin is T3rm1n47Fury and I run a Mumble server...hop on some time. I'm gonna be playing a lot tonight, lol


----------



## dlano

Thanks, I'll probably order a Rival soon then, and will add next time I'm on battlelog, don't mind the silly name, was a bit of a joke (Fi-Kal_Mattre). I'm from the UK btw so not sure how our time zones sync up.


----------



## ben1066

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Zowie FK or Razer Deathadder. Maybe also the Roccat Kone Pure.


I love my Kone Pure Optical but I think it may be a little small for a palm grip.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ben1066*
> 
> I love my Kone Pure Optical but I think it may be a little small for a palm grip.


He said he had very small hands though. 17cm is like 2cm below average male size.


----------



## ben1066

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> He said he had very small hands though. 17cm is like 2cm below average male size.


Mine are approximately 18cm tall and 8cm wide, so not too different. It may work for them.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ben1066*
> 
> Mine are approximately 18cm tall and 8cm wide, so not too different. It may work for them.


I don't know. I think the G400s and Deathadder would suit him perfectly for palm.


----------



## slayeresc

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

To be honest, I don't even know. I'm currently using a Logitech M215, which is too small for my liking, and is not what you would classify as a "gaming mouse". From what I've heard, 2000 dpi and higher is kinda excessive. I am a competitive gamer, so something a little more sensitive than what I have would help.

3. What's your maximum budget?

$70.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?

8 buttons is the most I would ever need. In my opinion, anything above that is overkill, since the games I play don't even need that many.

5. What games do you play?

Minecraft, multiple FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I would prefer to have little to no mouse prediction. However, a mouse with adjustable mouse prediction (like the Steelseries Sensei) would work as well.

7. Other relevant information:

I would really like a left-handed gaming mouse, but an ambidextrous mouse would also work. The weight isn't so much of a problem, and it doesn't matter if it's wired or wireless, nor does the type of wire matter if it's wired.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## cephei

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
High/Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2-3 on the thumb side, more would be nice but isn't necessary.

5. What games do you play?
Half-Life, Fallout, Mass Effect.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I'd prefer not to have it/to be able to turn it off.

7. Other relevant information:
Onboard memory for macros would be nice... I was considering the Deathadder but since I don't want to have to use the cloud software to have macros and because it's a little over my budget I've been looking elsewhere.

I was thinking about the Logitech G400s but it might be a bit big for my purposes? I'm used to using a Logitech M215. My hands are 18cm from middle finger to base of palm and 7.5cm across the palm.

Thanks for the help! I've been thinking about this for way too long...


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cephei*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> High/Mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2-3 on the thumb side, more would be nice but isn't necessary.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Half-Life, Fallout, Mass Effect.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd prefer not to have it/to be able to turn it off.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Onboard memory for macros would be nice... I was considering the Deathadder but since I don't want to have to use the cloud software to have macros and because it's a little over my budget I've been looking elsewhere.
> 
> I was thinking about the Logitech G400s but it might be a bit big for my purposes? I'm used to using a Logitech M215. My hands are 18cm from middle finger to base of palm and 7.5cm across the palm.
> 
> Thanks for the help! I've been thinking about this for way too long...


Take a look at the Corsair M65. Ive used its bigger brother, the M95 and I can say it was a great claw/fingertip mouse. You wont like the Logitech if you have that grip style, they are very much a palm mouse.


----------



## 0m3g4

Well I got my mionix avoir 7000 in today, I don't think I can deal with the shape...
I will give it about 3 days, then I will switch it out for the kone pure optical, if I can't adjust.


----------



## cephei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Take a look at the Corsair M65. Ive used its bigger brother, the M95 and I can say it was a great claw/fingertip mouse. You wont like the Logitech if you have that grip style, they are very much a palm mouse.


I hadn't checked out the Corsair mice yet, I think i might go for the M65 then. Thanks!


----------



## Dyaems

Need suggestions:

1. Fingertip grip? Not sure. My grip is very similar to this http://i.imgur.com/FnUlBum.png

2. Usually 400dpi when playing some FPS games, others i use 400~800dpi. cant use more than 800dpi.

3. ~100usd budget, the lower the better.

4. Additional buttons are OK, but I rarely use them.

5. first/third person shooter, adventure, RPG, mostly MMO nowadays.

6. I do not want prediction.

7. Other info are the following:

Smaller or abit smaller than Microsoft WMO, which is what I am currently using.
I do not like mice that is as wide as Xornet/Spawn because it tires my ring finger crazy fast.
Not heavy!
Also hoping that the coating wont get oily after a period of usage.
My hands sweats alot
For reference, I used/tried the following mice in no particular order:

Kana
G1
G5
G400
G9X (only a short time so i didn't get to test it properly)
MX518
Intellimouse 1.1 (cant grip/lift this properly because of shape)
Intellimouse 3.0
Wheel Mouse Optical
CM Storm Xornet
CM Storm Spawn
Deathadder
Naga
Elephant Nighthawk (google for pics)
Alot of generic mices as well
Forgot the others
Someone recommended G9X/Kinzu but im not sure yet.

Thank you for suggesting!


----------



## Amw86

1. What's your grip style?

claw, I would maybe fingertip/palm if the mouse was big enough but I have huge hands, I don't think I'd be very likely to change my style though.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Think I'm running about 2000dpi atm

3. What's your maximum budget?

none

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I'm torn....I really do like the idea of using extra mouse buttons for MMO's but I've yet to do so even when I had the Naga and my current mouse G700 lol

I think I would someday....So I would like them if Its reasonable.

5. What games do you play?

Everything, moba, fps, strat, mmo

6. Do you mind about prediction?

my initial response is IDC, I'm familiar with what it is but not how it would really wreck any of my gameplay..but it seems not having it is preferred..

7. Other relevant information:
Has to last a year of heavy use, I don't think I prefer anything TOO heavy, light-med weight most likely, also I think It would probably be easier on my hand if it was on the larger for size


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Need suggestions:
> 
> 1. Fingertip grip? Not sure. My grip is very similar to this http://i.imgur.com/FnUlBum.png
> 
> 2. Usually 400dpi when playing some FPS games, others i use 400~800dpi. cant use more than 800dpi.
> 
> 3. ~100usd budget, the lower the better.
> 
> 4. Additional buttons are OK, but I rarely use them.
> 
> 5. first/third person shooter, adventure, RPG, mostly MMO nowadays.
> 
> 6. I do not want prediction.
> 
> 7. Other info are the following:
> 
> Smaller or abit smaller than Microsoft WMO, which is what I am currently using.
> I do not like mice that is as wide as Xornet/Spawn because it tires my ring finger crazy fast.
> Not heavy!
> Also hoping that the coating wont get oily after a period of usage.
> My hands sweats alot
> For reference, I used/tried the following mice in no particular order:
> 
> Kana
> G1
> G5
> G400
> G9X (only a short time so i didn't get to test it properly)
> MX518
> Intellimouse 1.1 (cant grip/lift this properly because of shape)
> Intellimouse 3.0
> Wheel Mouse Optical
> CM Storm Xornet
> CM Storm Spawn
> Deathadder
> Naga
> Elephant Nighthawk (google for pics)
> Alot of generic mices as well
> Forgot the others
> Someone recommended G9X/Kinzu but im not sure yet.
> 
> Thank you for suggesting!


Try the Kinzu V2 Pro. Better performance than a WMO.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amw86*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> claw, I would maybe fingertip/palm if the mouse was big enough but I have huge hands, I don't think I'd be very likely to change my style though.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Think I'm running about 2000dpi atm
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> none
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I'm torn....I really do like the idea of using extra mouse buttons for MMO's but I've yet to do so even when I had the Naga and my current mouse G700 lol
> 
> I think I would someday....So I would like them if Its reasonable.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Everything, moba, fps, strat, mmo
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> my initial response is IDC, I'm familiar with what it is but not how it would really wreck any of my gameplay..but it seems not having it is preferred..
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Has to last a year of heavy use, I don't think I prefer anything TOO heavy, light-med weight most likely, also I think It would probably be easier on my hand if it was on the larger for size


Mionix Naos 7000 or SteelSeries Rival. Both are quite big.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Try the Kinzu V2 Pro. Better performance than a WMO.


Thanks! any other recommended mice that is abit more smaller than Kinzu V2 Pro? although it is noticeably "smaller" already than a WMO because of its weight


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Thanks! any other recommended mice that is abit more smaller than Kinzu V2 Pro? although it is noticeably "smaller" already than a WMO because of its weight


WMO is incredibly diminutive size-wise. It's very unlikely you're going to find gaming mice smaller than that aside from maybe the Kinzu and possibly the Abyssus, which you won't want because of jitter problems. I guess you googled the difference already between the V2 and V2 Pro since I think that was what you posted originally as a reply.


----------



## prinnyg

1. What's your grip style?
palm and fingertip mix.

2. What's your sensitivity?
8.2inch/360 in-game.
1400 dpi on my desktop and 800dpi on my laptop.

3. What's your maximum budget?
N/A. Probably 100~.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary, but wouldn't hurt to have some.

5. What games do you play?
FPS games mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, no predictions would be nice.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently have a PureTrak Talent, so a mouse that can work well with it would be great.
Ambidextrous shape is preferred but not necessary.
Able to switch from 800 dpi to 1400 dpi on the fly.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> WMO is incredibly diminutive size-wise. It's very unlikely you're going to find gaming mice smaller than that aside from maybe the Kinzu and possibly the Abyssus, which you won't want because of jitter problems. I guess you googled the difference already between the V2 and V2 Pro since I think that was what you posted originally as a reply.


Thanks. gonna buy a Kinzu V2 pro later and see how it goes!

and yeah i googled the difference between the two


----------



## EdenSB

I never realized there was a mouse suggestion thread.

Currently I'm looking for recommendations between Razer Krait/Abyssus/Deathadder 1800, Gigabyte M6980X, Roccat Savu or suggestions for something else.

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip usually, but sometimes claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I have absolutely no idea.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$40 approximately. I say approximately, since I'm buying in South Korea and prices vary.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary, but would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
FPS and simulation.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, no predictions would be nice.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently have a PureTrak Talent, so a mouse that can work well with it would be great.
Ambidextrous shape is preferred but not necessary.
Able to switch from 800 dpi to 1400 dpi on the fly.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amw86*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> claw, I would maybe fingertip/palm if the mouse was big enough but I have huge hands, I don't think I'd be very likely to change my style though.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Think I'm running about 2000dpi atm
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> none
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I'm torn....I really do like the idea of using extra mouse buttons for MMO's but I've yet to do so even when I had the Naga and my current mouse G700 lol
> 
> I think I would someday....So I would like them if Its reasonable.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Everything, moba, fps, strat, mmo
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> my initial response is IDC, I'm familiar with what it is but not how it would really wreck any of my gameplay..but it seems not having it is preferred..
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Has to last a year of heavy use, I don't think I prefer anything TOO heavy, light-med weight most likely, also I think It would probably be easier on my hand if it was on the larger for size


Logitech G602? Basically the same as the G700, just with more buttons and an insane battery life. Also has a much nicer optical sensor you will love (trust me, I went from the G700 to it)


----------



## slayeresc

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

To be honest, I don't even know. I'm currently using a Logitech M215, which is too small for my liking, and is not what you would classify as a "gaming mouse". From what I've heard, 2000 dpi and higher is kinda excessive. I am a competitive gamer, so something a little more sensitive than what I have would help.

3. What's your maximum budget?

$70.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?

8 buttons is the most I would ever need. In my opinion, anything above that is overkill, since the games I play don't even need that many.

5. What games do you play?

Minecraft, multiple FPS games

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I would prefer to have little to no mouse prediction. However, a mouse with adjustable mouse prediction (like the Steelseries Sensei) would work as well.

7. Other relevant information:

I would really like a left-handed gaming mouse, but an ambidextrous mouse would also work. The weight isn't so much of a problem, and it doesn't matter if it's wired or wireless, nor does the type of wire matter if it's wired.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## hslayer

1. What's your grip style?

claw/fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

800 - 1000

3. What's your maximum budget?

$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Doesn't really matter

5. What games do you play?

League of Legends and RTS, RTS RTS! Little bit of FPS here and there.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I prefer no prediction.

7. Other relevant information:

*Already tried Logitech G100s

I currently have Zowie MICO and I love this mouse because of the weight and size but it stopped working only after 2 months. I want to see if there is other options out there. I also used G9X without shell and loved it so much (again because how small and light it was with no shell) but unfortunately they are not in production anymore.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> claw/fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800 - 1000
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Doesn't really matter
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> League of Legends and RTS, RTS RTS! Little bit of FPS here and there.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I prefer no prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I currently have Zowie MICO and I love this mouse because of the weight and size but it stopped working only after 2 months. I want to see if there is other options out there. I also used G9X without shell and loved it so much (again because how small and light it was with no shell) but unfortunately they are not in production anymore.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Check out Logitech G100s.


----------



## hslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Check out Logitech G100s.


I already have G100s but sadly I do not like that mouse at all.


----------



## yezz12

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip, i'd like to "force" palm grip because fingertip hurts.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Currently playing at 400, won't go higher than for 1000 sure.

3. What's your maximum budget?
€100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No.

5. What games do you play?
FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I need a close to flawless sensor.

7. Other relevant information:
I'm looking for a mouse that's curved on the bottom. Like the Razer Naga. So i can force myself to use palm grip.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip, i'd like to "force" palm grip because fingertip hurts.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Currently playing at 400, won't go higher than for 1000 sure.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> €100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> No.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I need a close to flawless sensor.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I'm looking for a mouse that's curved on the bottom. Like the Razer Naga. So i can force myself to use palm grip.


Rival pretty much force you to palm grip it. I haven't tried Mionix Naos 7000 but it also might suit you.


----------



## Philipus

*Mouse:*

1. What's your grip style?

Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

mid-high

3. What's your maximum budget?

Not really a maximum budget. I just want a mouse, which fits my needs... 

4. Do you want additional buttons?

At the moment I do not use additional buttons, but 1 or 2 would be appreciated, if I should try it out.

5. What games do you play?

Bloodline Champions, Starcraft II HOTS, Heroes of Newerth

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No opinion

7. Other relevant information:

I would like the mouse to have some weight. About medium, I think.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philipus*
> 
> *Mouse:*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> mid-high
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Not really a maximum budget. I just want a mouse, which fits my needs...
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> At the moment I do not use additional buttons, but 1 or 2 would be appreciated, if I should try it out.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Bloodline Champions, Starcraft II HOTS, Heroes of Newerth
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No opinion
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I would like the mouse to have some weight. About medium, I think.


for a righty, go with Mionix Naos 7000, its paired with the 3310 sensor, pretty much perfect in terms of sensor performance, and with a shape that feels like its clay-molded to fit your hands! It is pretty much designed for full palm grip, its not really a claw-grip mouse at all.

And theres the Avior 7000, the ambi mouse version, same sensor, there is 2 extra buttons on it due to the ambi nature of it, you can put hotkeys on the unused buttons.

in my case i put my hotkeys on the DPI switch buttons and moved the dpi switching dutes to the unused side buttons, as its awkward enough to click them that you cannot accidentally click DPI anyway

This way, you have 4 extra buttons over the standard 3 buttons common to all mice.


----------



## t4t0

1. What's your grip style?

Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

800-2000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

60$

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Maybe 2 or 3 but it's not completely necesary

5. What games do you play?

League Of Legends 60%, FPS 30%, other games 10%

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction please

7. Other relevant information:

I want a light mouse (I had a g500 and it was too heavy for me)...around 100-110 g max.
I don't have a very big hand and I want a confortable mouse.

(I have search a lot...Sensei, Deathadder, Zowie (AM and EC) but I cannot decide...)

Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor english!


----------



## Philipus

Thank you very much!

I found the Naos 8200, which looks like it's the same as the Naos 7000 - just better. Which one would you recommend? And what's the differences?

And another thing: Can you help with finding the right gaming keyboard too? Would really be appreciated!

Best regards!


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philipus*
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> I found the Naos 8200, which looks like it's the same as the Naos 7000 - just better. Which one would you recommend? And what's the differences?
> 
> And another thing: Can you help with finding the right gaming keyboard too? Would really be appreciated!
> 
> Best regards!


The Naos 7000 has the better sensor, despite the 8000's higher CPI...


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philipus*
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> I found the Naos 8200, which looks like it's the same as the Naos 7000 - just better. Which one would you recommend? And what's the differences?
> 
> And another thing: Can you help with finding the right gaming keyboard too? Would really be appreciated!
> 
> Best regards!


no no no no, DO NOT GET THE 8200!

PLEASE!

its laser based, and it will have inherent acceleration issues compared to the flawless 7000 version, which has the 3310 optical sensor which is considered to be pretty much perfect with no acceleration or anything that affects its accuracy.

just better? its only 1200 dpi over what is already an HIGH dpi of 7000, i can't even control 4000, let alone 7000. DPI is a false metric of performance, and do not be fooled by big numbers. The real thing to look for is the latest optical sensor mice, which is always better than laser-based mice by far.


----------



## Dyaems

I need another suggestion for mice, but it is not for me this time! I'm happy with the Kinzu V2 pro








Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Around 800-1000 most likely
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> ~$100, cheaper the better
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Yes, and it is mandatory. At least two buttons.
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> MMO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Do not mind, since it probably doesnt matter for MMO anyway.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Just need side buttons but probably not too many like Naga and G600. Also good to great comfort as well. Hands are big.


Thanks again!


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> I need another suggestion for mice, but it is not for me this time! I'm happy with the Kinzu V2 pro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again!


Sounds like the Naos 7000 to me, that mouse is literally clay-molded to fit the right hand with places for ring and pinky fingers.


----------



## Philipus

Okay. I think that I will go with the Naos 7000 mouse then.
Thank you very much for your help!

And another thing:
Can you help with picking out the right gaming keyvboard too? 
Would really be appreciated.

Best regards


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philipus*
> 
> Okay. I think that I will go with the Naos 7000 mouse then.
> Thank you very much for your help!
> 
> And another thing:
> Can you help with picking out the right gaming keyvboard too?
> Would really be appreciated.
> 
> Best regards


I recommend the CM Quickfire XT, preferably in Cherry MX Brown switches. Most compact full-size keyboard out there and its pretty much like getting a Filco or Ducky keyboard for $50 less.

for gaming, light switches tends to do better for double tapping, so avoid the Blue or Green switches as they are clicky and their inherent mechanism doesn't allow for quick tapping whereas the Browns or Reds does. It all depends on whether you want tactile bump (Brown) or smooth no-bump linear action (Red)


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Sounds like the Naos 7000 to me, that mouse is literally clay-molded to fit the right hand with places for ring and pinky fingers.


Thanks. I checked the stores locally that sells a Naos 7000, and unfortunately, stores only sell the 8200/5000/3200 here. Any other suggestions?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



1. What's your grip style?

Palm Grip
2. What's your sensitivity?

Around 800-1000 most likely
3. What's your maximum budget?

~$100, cheaper the better
4. Do you want additional buttons?

Yes, and it is mandatory. At least two buttons.
5. What games do you play?

MMO
6. Do you mind about prediction?

Do not mind, since it probably doesnt matter for MMO anyway.
7. Other relevant information:

Just need side buttons but probably not too many like Naga and G600. Also good to great comfort as well. Hands are big.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Thanks. I checked the stores locally that sells a Naos 7000 and unfortunately we only have the lower models available. Any other suggestions?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm Grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Around 800-1000 most likely
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> ~$100, cheaper the better
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Yes, and it is mandatory. At least two buttons.
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> MMO
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Do not mind, since it probably doesnt matter for MMO anyway.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Just need side buttons but probably not too many like Naga and G600. Also good to great comfort as well. Hands are big.


Can't order from Amazon or Newegg for the 7000? There's a cheaper Naos 3200 optical, the Naos 5000 is laser though.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Can't order from Amazon or Newegg for the 7000? There's a cheaper Naos 3200 optical, the Naos 5000 is laser though.


The 3200 should be good if angle snapping is tolerable or wanted.


----------



## Dyaems

Nah cant order in amazon since the shipping will be most likely the same price with the mice itself. I live outside of the US. Sorry!

Will suggest the 3200 to my friend then. Pretty sure he doesn't know about snapping and it is not needed when playing MMO in my experience. Thanks guys!


----------



## USBPS2

Still looking for a good mouse for Starcraft BroodWar!

Priority number 1 is a good light click. A good sensor with no bs is also important.

I´d like a small light mouse. Around 450 - 550 DPI, with a higher than 125 hz polling rate.

2 buttons plus wheel is all I need.


----------



## AbidingDude

1. What's your grip style?

Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

400 DPI, Old School

3. What's your maximum budget?

$80-100, Any more is a waste of money IMHO

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Nah, Left click, Right click and the scroll wheel, That's all I want/need

5. What games do you play?

Mainly Old school FPS, CS 1.6, Quake 3, Duke Nukem 3D, More Doom mods then you could shake a stick at

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Not Really

7. Other relevant information:

Everyone should go out and buy an Intellimouse, Mouse choice of the Gods


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbidingDude*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm Grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 400 DPI, Old School
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $80-100, Any more is a waste of money IMHO
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Nah, Left click, Right click and the scroll wheel, That's all I want/need
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Mainly Old school FPS, CS 1.6, Quake 3, Duke Nukem 3D, More Doom mods then you could shake a stick at
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Not Really
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Everyone should go out and buy an Intellimouse, Mouse choice of the Gods


Hated the Intellimouse, ergonomics were all off for my hand, probably why I also hated the Deathadder.

Have you taken a look at the Logitech G100? Or maybe you see another intellimouse in your future









*EDIT*
You might like the shape of the G400 better. Plus it has a forward and backward button for web browsing.


----------



## tRad

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
In game - low sensitivity
In windows 4th/5th click

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60-$70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
3-5 would be fine.

5. What games do you play?
CS, BF... mostly FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction and no acceleration please!!!

7. Other relevant information:
I would love something like my Razer Diamondback, ambidextrous. I do like the matt finish some of the new mice have also.

Thanks for any info guys!!


----------



## AbidingDude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Hated the Intellimouse, ergonomics were all off for my hand, probably why I also hated the Deathadder.
> 
> Have you taken a look at the Logitech G100? Or maybe you see another intellimouse in your future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT*
> You might like the shape of the G400 better. Plus it has a forward and backward button for web browsing.


I have a G400s, It's a good mouse and probably my favorite mouse that isn't an intellimouse,
However, I've been using Intellimouse for gaming for the better part of 13 years, I always find myself going back to one after a while
It's what feels most natural for me, Sensitivity is perfect, Tracking is perfect, and the Ergonomics are perfect for me,
I couldn't imagine playing some games (cs1.6) with anything but an Intellimouse


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tRad*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> In game - low sensitivity
> In windows 4th/5th click
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60-$70
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 3-5 would be fine.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS, BF... mostly FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction and no acceleration please!!!
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I would love something like my Razer Diamondback, ambidextrous. I do like the matt finish some of the new mice have also.
> 
> Thanks for any info guys!!


Check out the Mionix Avior 7000 and see what you think.


----------



## maxvons

I know it's quite standard, and I guess you've tried it, but the Deathadder is always nice. The Steelseries Rival is also very good.


----------



## recnepsbuh

1. What's your grip style?

Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Currently 1,500

3. What's your maximum budget?

100 dollars, but could go more if I found something I really liked

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Yes, but not like an MMO mouse

5. What games do you play?

Diablo 3

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Would rather not

7. Other relevant information:

I have been using the Steelseries D3 mouse for about 6 months. I cant stand it, and the left click is already screwing up. I dont like the shape of any Steelseries mouse to be honest. Before that I was using the Logitech M500 tilt wheel mouse, and of course, the left click went out on it as well. I really liked the shape of the Logitech mouse because it allowed me to rest my whole palm on the mouse. There are several Logitech models I have had my eye on, as well as the Mionix 8200. The Mionix looks perfect for what I want because of the shape, laser sensor, 2 side buttons, and teflon glide pads.

If you're looking for a mousepd too, please try to answer the following questions:
Quote:
7. Hard or cloth?

Hard

8. Rough or smooth?

rough

9. Which size approximately?

I dont have room for a large mouse pad

10. What's your maximum budget?

I have been looking at the Mionix Propus to go along with the Mionix 8200. My maximum budget for a mouse pad would never exceed 50 bucks.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *recnepsbuh*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Currently 1,500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 100 dollars, but could go more if I found something I really liked
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Yes, but not like an MMO mouse
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Diablo 3
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Would rather not
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I have been using the Steelseries D3 mouse for about 6 months. I cant stand it, and the left click is already screwing up. I dont like the shape of any Steelseries mouse to be honest. Before that I was using the Logitech M500 tilt wheel mouse, and of course, the left click went out on it as well. I really liked the shape of the Logitech mouse because it allowed me to rest my whole palm on the mouse. There are several Logitech models I have had my eye on, as well as the Mionix 8200. The Mionix looks perfect for what I want because of the shape, laser sensor, 2 side buttons, and teflon glide pads.
> 
> If you're looking for a mousepd too, please try to answer the following questions:
> Quote:
> 7. Hard or cloth?
> 
> Hard
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth?
> 
> rough
> 
> 9. Which size approximately?
> 
> I dont have room for a large mouse pad
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> I have been looking at the Mionix Propus to go along with the Mionix 8200. My maximum budget for a mouse pad would never exceed 50 bucks.


Propus 380 is very good but it wears down a lot faster than the Corsair MM400. I had great experiences with that pad back when I was still using the Sensei.

I would get the Naos 7000 which is a much better sensor than the 8200. However, I have not tested how the 7000 performs on hard mats. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.


----------



## dakkadakka

I'm after a new mouse with the following qualities
-very comfortable shape
-wired
-at least decent optical sensor

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
NA

4. Do you want additional buttons?
DPI change button(s) in addition to the standard five.

5. What games do you play?
FPS - not much
TPS - a few
Action - a lot
RPG - alot
RTS - alot

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Do not want prediction.

7. Other relevant information:

The hand


Past mouse shape experiences (in no particular order)

Sidewinder X5
The shape feels very comfortable, but I can't reach the side buttons at all.

G602
The shape feels very comfortable.
I like the surface material.
The weight with 2 batteries installed makes lifting slightly harder than the other mice.
If only there's a wired version...

Sensei Raw (rubber surface)
No issues with the ambidexterous shape, but I can only reach the 'back' side button.
The surface material feels too slippery for my taste.

Deathadder 2013
The shape is comfortable, but it doesn't feel like I'm getting a good full solid grip on the mouse.
The surface material feels meh.

G400
The right side lip hurts (I always hold the right side of a mouse with my ring finger).
Even after sanding down that lip, my ring finger still feels uncomfortable.
I don't like the scroll wheel.
I don't like the shape of the DPI buttons and their placements.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *recnepsbuh*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Currently 1,500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 100 dollars, but could go more if I found something I really liked
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Yes, but not like an MMO mouse
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Diablo 3
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Would rather not
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I have been using the Steelseries D3 mouse for about 6 months. I cant stand it, and the left click is already screwing up. I dont like the shape of any Steelseries mouse to be honest. Before that I was using the Logitech M500 tilt wheel mouse, and of course, the left click went out on it as well. I really liked the shape of the Logitech mouse because it allowed me to rest my whole palm on the mouse. There are several Logitech models I have had my eye on, as well as the Mionix 8200. The Mionix looks perfect for what I want because of the shape, laser sensor, 2 side buttons, and teflon glide pads.
> 
> If you're looking for a mousepd too, please try to answer the following questions:
> Quote:
> 7. Hard or cloth?
> 
> Hard
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth?
> 
> rough
> 
> 9. Which size approximately?
> 
> I dont have room for a large mouse pad
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> I have been looking at the Mionix Propus to go along with the Mionix 8200. My maximum budget for a mouse pad would never exceed 50 bucks.


Like the Logitech shape? Get the G400/500 or the G602. G602 is the one I'm using right now and after using the G400/500/700, I wont go back to any other mouse. Simply a treat to use, and the fact that its wireless scares some people. Still has a 500hz polling rate on its optical sensor. I've been playing a bit of D3 with it and I love it, 1500dpi, game feels flawless (except for CLICKY CLICKY). Left click feels great and its rates to something rediculous like 10 million clicks.

Im using a Razer Goliathus mousepad, but really just get whatever you like. The Steelseries ones are great too.


----------



## clear

1. What's your grip style?
Slight Claw / Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
800/1000

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, though I do not like the 'num-pad' design as found on the Naga 'mmo'

5. What games do you play?
MMO's, RPG's, MMO's, FPS, Sim & MMO's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Rather not

7. Other relevant information:
I really _really_ *REALLY* love the Logitech G9 mouse which I've used since its release. However Logitech no longer makes it. I'm looking for a mouse that has similar body shape and the low flatter profile, but a few more buttons. I also utilize the weights as I prefer a heavier mouse. I do NOT like the palmy-rounded shape of most mice. Although not popular I also utilize tilt-wheel all the time







Hard to find that, too. Lastly, super high DPI is not important, but being able to adjust it on the mouse is important. A nice 1:1 sensor would be great!

I've eyed the Cyborg MMO in the past, and while IMO ugly as hell, it seems to be the most adjustable to weight and size which is more important. Have heard conflicting reports on the sensor though.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clear*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Slight Claw / Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800/1000
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, though I do not like the 'num-pad' design as found on the Naga 'mmo'
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> MMO's, RPG's, MMO's, FPS, Sim & MMO's
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Rather not
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I really _really_ *REALLY* love the Logitech G9 mouse which I've used since its release. However Logitech no longer makes it. I'm looking for a mouse that has similar body shape and the low flatter profile, but a few more buttons. I also utilize the weights as I prefer a heavier mouse. I do NOT like the palmy-rounded shape of most mice. Although not popular I also utilize tilt-wheel all the time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to find that, too. Lastly, super high DPI is not important, but being able to adjust it on the mouse is important. A nice 1:1 sensor would be great!
> 
> I've eyed the Cyborg MMO in the past, and while IMO ugly as hell, it seems to be the most adjustable to weight and size which is more important. Have heard conflicting reports on the sensor though.


Ok so you should look at the Logitech G602. Great mouse, great sensor, nice weight. Sure its wireless, but with a 500hz polling rate you probably wont notice.

I personally have the Cyborg MMO7 and I can tell you its my favorite mouse to date. Unfortunately, I went through 2 in less then a year due to that crap sensor the put in. Its not worth the effort. This G602 is a very close second to the MMO7. I love weighty mice, I used all the weights in the MMO7 so I can personally say the G602's weight is just about perfect.


----------



## Flashltr

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
moderate to moderately high sensitivity when playing

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*YES*

5. What games do you play?
Mostly want one for League of Legends (moba)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no

7. Other relevant information:
I became accustomed to playing LoL with a Logitech G5 mouse that I used the DPI buttons extensively for alt and shift. These buttons broke, tried the newer variants from Logitech and they just don't fit the bill of what I became used to with the G5. I've tried many mice that have top buttons that are typically "DPI" buttons, changing them in their in game menus to try and account for this, and they don't work typically due to mice software. Anyone know of a great mouse that have some excellent top buttons near the wheel that can be modified to function as shift and alt? (Steelseries doesn't seem to allow you to change the dpi button, CM Storm software is not very good/doesn't work for this modification) Any suggestions?


----------



## clear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Ok so you should look at the Logitech G602. Great mouse, great sensor, nice weight. Sure its wireless, but with a 500hz polling rate you probably wont notice.
> 
> I personally have the Cyborg MMO7 and I can tell you its my favorite mouse to date. Unfortunately, I went through 2 in less then a year due to that crap sensor the put in. Its not worth the effort. This G602 is a very close second to the MMO7. I love weighty mice, I used all the weights in the MMO7 so I can personally say the G602's weight is just about perfect.


Thanks for the info. Have you used a G9 before? If so, can you tell me how the ergonomics of the MMO7 and the G602 compare size and shape wise?


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clear*
> 
> Thanks for the info. Have you used a G9 before? If so, can you tell me how the ergonomics of the MMO7 and the G602 compare size and shape wise?


Unfortunately I haven't. But from what I've seen, should be similar to the G9 without the "frame".


----------



## ironderek

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
low/middle

3. What's your maximum budget?
no budget-need good solid mouse

4. Do you want additional buttons?
don't mind

5. What games do you play?
Mostly FPS, Action, RPG, RTS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
no

7. Other relevant information:
I really like them:
Zowie EC1 Evo
Zowie FK
SteelSeries Rival
Razer Deathadder 3500DPI (3.5G)
Razer Deathadder 2013
ROCCAT Kone XTD
I need good solid mouse which won't break after 2 months. Also what mouse pad would you suggest me for that particular mouse?


----------



## Goofy Goober

hi guys...
pls help me with my next gaming mouse choice

*1. What's your grip style?*

fingertip and claw grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

from 3000dpi to 5000+ (my mice cap @ 5200dpi)

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

around 100-120 €uros

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

why not... 5 or 6 are enough

*5. What games do you play?*

every kind of game, on pc in particular Civ-like games, RTS, FPS, TPS, RPG...

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

i don't know what it is









*7. Other relevant information:*

currently i have a CM Storm Sentinel II, and despite it is a great mouse, for me it's too big and after a couple of hour my hand hurts.
in the office at work i'm using a Logitech M150, a small mouse that is really comfortable, and so i want the smallest possible gaming mouse that has a good quality and features. wireless is also a appreciated feature...
i've seen the Logitech g700s but can't figure out if it's too big for me...


----------



## paers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fla****r*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw/Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> moderate to moderately high sensitivity when playing
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *YES*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly want one for League of Legends (moba)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> no
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I became accustomed to playing LoL with a Logitech G5 mouse that I used the DPI buttons extensively for alt and shift. These buttons broke, tried the newer variants from Logitech and they just don't fit the bill of what I became used to with the G5. I've tried many mice that have top buttons that are typically "DPI" buttons, changing them in their in game menus to try and account for this, and they don't work typically due to mice software. Anyone know of a great mouse that have some excellent top buttons near the wheel that can be modified to function as shift and alt? (Steelseries doesn't seem to allow you to change the dpi button, CM Storm software is not very good/doesn't work for this modification) Any suggestions?


G300? Those additional buttons are not exactly near the wheel but easy to reach anyway.


----------



## Pip Boy

Logitech 518MX , love it but..

its too flat (its not even a flat mouse either) and Im thinking i need something that sits in the back of the palm more and is taller / squater as i tend to claw (with a nice rubbery finish and damped buttons if possible)

Ideas? perhaps the CM Storm Spawn ?


----------



## donsun

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity? 1600~2000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? Prefer at least 1 side button for browsing (4 total: left, right, middle, side button) , don't really need more than 2 side buttons (5 total)

5. What games do you play? MOBA (LoL, DotA2)

6. Do you mind about prediction? Not really, perhaps I don't play the games to notice it.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

-LOD doesn't really matter since I don't lift the mouse too often while I'm playing.
-Weight: around 90g, less than 100g for sure.
-Preferably Wired
-Cord style doesn't really matter
-Preferred Matte/rubber finish
-Light button activation force
-Prefer a mouse with a length <120mm and height <40mm

-I used a 1st gen DeathAdder for ~7 years when the left click started needing additional force to click and I started feeling pain in my hand after extended use.
-So then I ordered the DA2013, but the pain isn't going away so I figured it may be attributed to the shape of the mouse.
-Then, I tried the Roccat Kova+ which I liked, but it suffered from the middle click not always working issue.
-Then I tried the Steelseries Sensei RAW, but that didn't help too much with the pain so I returned that.
-I tried the CM Storm Recon which felt too big for me.
-Right now I'm using the CM Storm Spawn which seems almost perfect except the extension on the right side of the mouse for the ring finger. It just seems to get in the way of my grip and feels like I'm putting excessive force on my ring finger since I'm used to it sitting on the side of the mouse, not 'on top'.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Logitech 518MX , love it but..
> 
> its too flat (its not even a flat mouse either) and Im thinking i need something that sits in the back of the palm more and is taller / squater as i tend to claw (with a nice rubbery finish and damped buttons if possible)
> 
> Ideas? perhaps the CM Storm Spawn ?


The new CM Storm Alcor looks quite nice.

Here's a review.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donsun*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1600~2000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Prefer at least 1 side button for browsing (4 total: left, right, middle, side button) , don't really need more than 2 side buttons (5 total)
> 
> 5. What games do you play? MOBA (LoL, DotA2)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not really, perhaps I don't play the games to notice it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> -LOD doesn't really matter since I don't lift the mouse too often while I'm playing.
> -Weight: around 90g, less than 100g for sure.
> -Preferably Wired
> -Cord style doesn't really matter
> -Preferred Matte/rubber finish
> -Light button activation force
> -Prefer a mouse with a length <120mm and height <40mm
> 
> -I used a 1st gen DeathAdder for ~7 years when the left click started needing additional force to click and I started feeling pain in my hand after extended use.
> -So then I ordered the DA2013, but the pain isn't going away so I figured it may be attributed to the shape of the mouse.
> -Then, I tried the Roccat Kova+ which I liked, but it suffered from the middle click not always working issue.
> -Then I tried the Steelseries Sensei RAW, but that didn't help too much with the pain so I returned that.
> -I tried the CM Storm Recon which felt too big for me.
> -Right now I'm using the CM Storm Spawn which seems almost perfect except the extension on the right side of the mouse for the ring finger. It just seems to get in the way of my grip and feels like I'm putting excessive force on my ring finger since I'm used to it sitting on the side of the mouse, not 'on top'.


The new CM Storm Alcor is quite light, and the shape is almost identical to that of the legendary Intellimouse 3.0. I don't know if you will like it though, as it's quite similar to the Deathadder as well.


----------



## Leodrade

1. What's your grip style? Claw or Palm grip, both work just fine for me

2. What's your sensitivity? Around 1000 DPI in-game and around 2000 DPI when browsing the internet

3. What's your maximum budget? I currently have no maximum budget, i just want to make sure I am going to buy a good mouse

4. Do you want additional buttons? I feel like other than the regular mouse buttons 4 extra ones are more than enough (2 for increasing and decreasing DPI and other 2 to use in some games)

5. What games do you play? Pretty much everything (FPS, RTS, TPS, MOBA, etc.), but mainly FPS.

6. Do you mind about prediction? I never used it but i think it could be useful but not a deal breaker for me I believe

7. Other relevant information: Well i just had the worst mouse experience with a CM Storm Sentinel Zero-G that rusted off and some keys broke in less than a year so i mainly want a reliable mouse that has no mouse acceleration or the option to disable it.


----------



## LzbeL

*1*. What's your grip style?

Palm grip

*2*. What's your sensitivity?

6 in CS GO with 400 DPI.

*3*. What's your maximum budget?

30 €

*4*. Do you want additional buttons?

NO. If have any extra, I do not care.

*5*. What games do you play?

CS GO (First Person Shooter)

*6*. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes

*7*. Other relevant information:

I'd like a mouse without prediction and negaccel.

I currently have a Intellimouse 1.1 and I have enough negaccel.

--

Thanks.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> *1*. What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm grip
> 
> *2*. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 6 in CS GO with 400 DPI.
> 
> *3*. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 30 €
> 
> *4*. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> NO. If have any extra, I do not care.
> 
> *5*. What games do you play?
> 
> CS GO (First Person Shooter)
> 
> *6*. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes
> 
> *7*. Other relevant information:
> 
> I'd like a mouse without prediction and negaccel.
> 
> I currently have a Intellimouse 1.1 and I have enough negaccel.
> 
> --
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry off topic but i just have to ask. With your high sensitivity, do you hit those 1.5 m/s?

Take a look at Razer Deathadder, SteelSeries Rival, Logitech G400 or Mionix Naos.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Sorry off topic but i just have to ask. With your high sensitivity, do you hit those 1.5 m/s?
> 
> Take a look at Razer Deathadder, SteelSeries Rival, Logitech G400 or Mionix Naos.


I do not understand what to 1.5m / s, you could be more descriptive?

Really use 6 sensitivity 400DPI because if not a lot would have to move the mouse or continuously lifting.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> I do not understand what to 1.5m / s, you could be more descriptive?
> 
> Really use 6 sensitivity 400DPI because if not a lot would have to move the mouse or continuously lifting.


1.5 m/s is the speed you are physically moving your mouse on the mousing surface, that is the max you can move without the mouse topping out at that speed. Anything over 1.5 m/s will be ignored and your cursor or gun would only point as if you were moving 1.5 m/s the whole time, that is called negative acceleration. You can roughly measure the maximum perfect control speed using software like Enotus mouse test by telling it what your CPI (counts per inch, same as DPI, I just like to be formal about it) is and then flicking your mouse like a maniac to see what maximum speed it shows.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 1.5 m/s is the speed you are physically moving your mouse on the mousing surface, that is the max you can move without the mouse topping out at that speed. Anything over 1.5 m/s will be ignored and your cursor or gun would only point as if you were moving 1.5 m/s the whole time, that is called negative acceleration. You can roughly measure the maximum perfect control speed using software like Enotus mouse test by telling it what your CPI (counts per inch, same as DPI, I just like to be formal about it) is and then flicking your mouse like a maniac to see what maximum speed it shows.


In "Speed" section (enotus mouse test), I get 2m/s.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> In "Speed" section (enotus mouse test), I get 2m/s.


With an IO 1.1? Overclocked to 1000 Hz those should top out at about 1.5 m/s. Make sure you don't touch any buttons on the mouse while doing swipes. Also, Enotus is not perfectly accurate. But just to give you an idea, the best mice on the market can do 3.5-5+ m/s easily.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> With an IO 1.1? Overclocked to 1000 Hz those should top out at about 1.5 m/s. Make sure you don't touch any buttons on the mouse while doing swipes. Also, Enotus is not perfectly accurate. But just to give you an idea, the best mice on the market can do 3.5-5+ m/s easily.


Ok, 1m / s. (125hz) I'm moving the mouse fast everything I can from one end to the other of the screen.

I do not understand why in the section "Resolution", I get more than 400dpi have my mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> Ok, 1m / s. (125hz) I'm moving the mouse fast everything I can from one end to the other of the screen.


That's exactly what you should get. On 500 Hz or 1000 Hz if you force it (there is a way, it's a pain though) you will be able to reach about 1.5 m/s but that's about it.

If you like ergonomic mice, check out the Mionix Naos 7000 and SteelSeries Rival. If you like ambidextrous mice, the Mionix Avior 7000 is awesome.

If you don't think you'll ever need 5 m/s (I just listed mice with a PMW3310 optical sensor), you can try a 3090 mouse like a Zowie EC1 EVO, or Logitech G400 with serial greater than LZ13333. The DeathAdder 3G is hard to find, but also incredibly awesome. I recommend against a DA 2013 since they have a little more smoothing than the 3310, but it's worth a shot though I wouldn't recommend it as a primary choice.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's exactly what you should get. On 500 Hz or 1000 Hz if you force it (there is a way, it's a pain though) you will be able to reach about 1.5 m/s but that's about it.
> 
> If you like ergonomic mice, check out the Mionix Naos 7000 and SteelSeries Rival. If you like ambidextrous mice, the Mionix Avior 7000 is awesome.
> 
> If you don't think you'll ever need 5 m/s (I just listed mice with a PMW3310 optical sensor), you can try a 3090 mouse like a Zowie EC1 EVO, or Logitech G400 with serial greater than LZ13333. The DeathAdder 3G is hard to find, but also incredibly awesome. I recommend against a DA 2013 since they have a little more smoothing than the 3310, but it's worth a shot though I wouldn't recommend it as a primary choice.


But then if I exceed 1.5m / s is bad, right? because I get negative acceleration.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> But then if I exceed 1.5m / s is bad, right? because I get negative acceleration.


If you overclock your 1.1's polling rate, yes you will still neg accel above 1.5 m/s.

The first 3 mice I listed will top out at a shocking 5-5.4 m/s. The next bunch I listed will top out at at least 3.5 m/s.

I play at 60cm/360 in my shooters, and I routinely hit 3 or higher m/s. (that's about 12" per 180 degree turn). I am in the process of switching between a Rival and an Avior 7000, both have a sensor that perfectly keeps up with anything I throw at it.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you overclock your 1.1's polling rate, yes you will still neg accel above 1.5 m/s.
> 
> The first 3 mice I listed will top out at a shocking 5 m/s. The next bunch I listed will top out at at least 3.5 m/s.
> 
> I play at 60cm/360 in my shooters, and I routinely hit 3 or higher m/s. (that's about 12" per 180 degree turn). I am in the process of switching between a Rival and an Avior 7000, both have a sensor that perfectly keeps up with anything I throw at it.


So it's not good overclock 1.1? Why do people say oc to 500 or 1000hz?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> So it's not good overclock 1.1? Why do people say oc to 500 or 1000hz?


It IS good, it increases the max speed to 1.5 m/s and also reduces input latency and smoothness of movement. You're still limited by that speed though. Using low sensitivity with mice equipped with the MLT04 sensor like the IE 3.0, WMO 1.1A, and IO 1.1 is nearly impossible unless you never make flickshots.

I own a couple of WMO 1.1As, I know what it's like.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It IS good, it increases the max speed to 1.5 m/s and also reduces input latency and smoothness of movement. You're still limited by that speed though. Using low sensitivity with mice equipped with the MLT04 sensor like the IE 3.0, WMO 1.1A, and IO 1.1 is nearly impossible unless you never make flickshots.
> 
> I own a couple of WMO 1.1As, I know what it's like.


So if OC to 250-500-1000hz, with 6 sensitivity in CS GO,should never get negaccel, right?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> So if OC to 250-500-1000hz, with 6 sensitivity in CS GO,should never get negaccel, right?


Depends on your play style. I would still get a new mouse because 400 CPI with 6 sensitivity is definitely not going to give you pixel-precise aiming. You are probably skipping a lot of pixels with each report of mouse movement.

According to www.mouse-sensitivity.com you are playing at 17.3182cm/360, I'd say you should probably get at least an 800 CPI mouse for a sensitivity that high. I say pretty high, because f0rest is one of the highest sens players in the game and even he uses 3.5 (referenced here: http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=104448#r2840526).


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Depends on your play style. I would still get a new mouse because 400 CPI with 6 sensitivity is definitely not going to give you pixel-precise aiming. You are probably skipping a lot of pixels with each report of mouse movement.
> 
> According to www.mouse-sensitivity.com you are playing at 17.3182cm/360, I'd say you should probably get at least an 800 CPI mouse for a sensitivity that high. I say pretty high, because f0rest is one of the highest sens players in the game and even he uses 3.5 (referenced here: http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=104448#r2840526).


But then that sensitivity should I use? You have not said before that if I use low sensitivity, I get negative acceleration?

If I play with mouse 800 DPI @ 6 sensitivity, is a lot sensitivty in games.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> But then that sensitivity should I use? You have not said before that if I use low sensitivity, I get negative acceleration?


The thing is, the lower the sensitivity you use the faster you have to move your mouse to compensate, which will make you reach your max speed much more easily. But, there are players out there that are gentler with their movements and are able to predict where the enemy will show up (head height, crosshair placement, etc.) before they do so they don't require such a high max speed.

That said, you can't make any quick corrections if someone does sneak by you if you aren't equipped with the right mouse. In general, yes, to make it more clear you definitely need a higher performing mouse if you want to use a lower sensitivity.

PS my sensitivity would be about 1.7 in CS GO if I used 400 CPI.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The thing is, the lower the sensitivity you use the faster you have to move your mouse to compensate, which will make you reach your max speed much more easily. But, there are players out there that are gentler with their movements and are able to predict where the enemy will show up (head height, crosshair placement, etc.) before they do so they don't require such a high max speed.
> 
> That said, you can't make any quick corrections if someone does sneak by you if you aren't equipped with the right mouse. In general, yes, to make it more clear you definitely need a higher performing mouse if you want to use a lower sensitivity.
> 
> PS my sensitivity would be about 1.7 in CS GO if I used 400 CPI.


Wow, 1.7 with 400DPI is very little for me ...

I could also buy a Logitech MX310 for 11 € new (quite old), which has 800DPI, but I read that the mouse has prediction problems.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> Wow, 1.7 with 400DPI is very little for me ...
> 
> I could also buy a Logitech MX310 for 11 € new (quite old), which has 800DPI, but I read that the mouse has prediction problems.


You would be correct. Need to expand the budget a bit.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You would be correct. Need to expand the budget a bit.


A G400 would be ideal, no? But how many DPI should I play?3600 dpi is a lot.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> A G400 would be ideal, no? But how many DPI should I play?3600 dpi is a lot.


Whatever is the native CPI of the sensor. In the case of the G400, that would be 800 CPI. That is the native, unadjusted step of the sensor itself. Awesome mouse, pretty big and extremely precise. It was my primary for some time in past years. It'll do a solid 4 m/s at 400 or 800 CPI (from my personal testing, I still have one).


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you don't think you'll ever need 5 m/s (I just listed mice with a PMW3310 optical sensor), you can try a 3090 mouse like a Zowie EC1 EVO, or Logitech G400 with serial greater than LZ13333. The DeathAdder 3G is hard to find, but also incredibly awesome. I recommend against a DA 2013 since they have a little more smoothing than the 3310, but it's worth a shot though I wouldn't recommend it as a primary choice.


The "smoothing" algorithm in the DA 2013 is more prominent than the the current Mionix and SteelSeries mice using the 3310 sensor? I like confirmations...


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Whatever is the native CPI of the sensor. In the case of the G400, that would be 800 CPI. That is the native, unadjusted step of the sensor itself. Awesome mouse, pretty big and extremely precise. It was my primary for some time in past years. It'll do a solid 4 m/s at 400 or 800 CPI (from my personal testing, I still have one).


I have read that the G400 has two native DPI, right? 800 and 3600. If so, I would play with 800.

It is important that the serial exceeds LZ13333. But, How I know I'm buying the mouse is larger than that serial?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The "smoothing" algorithm in the DA 2013 is more prominent than the the current Mionix and SteelSeries mice using the 3310 sensor? I like confirmations...


I've read that all over the forum. I tried one out from Best Buy a couple months ago and it did feel a little too smoothed out. It's hard to describe, but the mouse felt a little bit synthetic in how it interpreted my movements. I'm not convinced the S3988 is really ready for $-on-the-line FPS gameplay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> I have read that the G400 has two native DPI, right? 800 and 3600. If so, I would play with 800.
> 
> It is important that the serial exceeds LZ13333. But, How I know I'm buying the mouse is larger than that serial?


That is correct. You won't get 4 m/s at the 3600 CPI step, however.

You'd have to ask the seller. Most G400 mice are going to be sold used now, since that mouse is no longer being made.


----------



## lainx

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/Finger

2. What's your sensitivity?
800-1600CPI, depending on the game.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
It would be nice but not necessary

5. What games do you play?
FPS/Arpg/MMO's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. I would enjoy as little acceleration/smoothing and the like as possible.

7. Other relevant information:
Currently Using a Logitech G700 which i enjoy the shape of but not the Weight.
Was running a Rival but it was too large for me and the optic laser did not work well with my mousepad. Buying a new mousepad so it will work with optic laser.
I'd like to stay clear from Logitech because their switches seems to wear out (i've just had the G700 for about a year, and is now double clicking).
Non braided cable would be nice since that was what broke my G9X.
G9X was probably the most comfortable mouse i've used in the past 6 years.

EDIT:
Oh, i want it to be optical since i will be buying a new mouse surface as well.

Mousepad
7. Hard or cloth?
Cloth

8. Rough or smooth?
Rough

9. Which size approximately?
400mm X 350mm atleast.

10. What's your maximum budget?
$100

11. Other Relevant information:
Currently have a Qpad Heaton XL. Did not play well with optic mice.
I also have a Razer Exact Mat, which worked better.
I've also tried the Func Surface R2 L, but it was too small for me and again, didn't play well with optic laser.
This is why i want to go cloth. I was considering PureTrak Talent since people rave about it?

Thanks!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw/Finger
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800-1600CPI, depending on the game.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> It would be nice but not necessary
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS/Arpg/MMO's
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. I would enjoy as little acceleration/smoothing and the like as possible.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Currently Using a Logitech G700 which i enjoy the shape of but not the Weight.
> Was running a Rival but it was too large for me and the optic laser did not work well with my mousepad. Buying a new mousepad so it will work with optic laser.
> I'd like to stay clear from Logitech because their switches seems to wear out (i've just had the G700 for about a year, and is now double clicking).
> Non braided cable would be nice since that was what broke my G9X.
> G9X was probably the most comfortable mouse i've used in the past 6 years.
> 
> EDIT:
> Oh, i want it to be optical since i will be buying a new mouse surface as well.
> 
> Mousepad
> 7. Hard or cloth?
> Cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth?
> Rough
> 
> 9. Which size approximately?
> 400mm X 350mm atleast.
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> 11. Other Relevant information:
> Currently have a Qpad Heaton XL. Did not play well with optic mice.
> I also have a Razer Exact Mat, which worked better.
> I've also tried the Func Surface R2 L, but it was too small for me and again, didn't play well with optic laser.
> This is why i want to go cloth. I was considering PureTrak Talent since people rave about it?
> 
> Thanks!


Interestingly enough you may end up with what I consider a dream setup for FPS as well:

Mionix Avior 7000
Puretrak Talent


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Interestingly enough you may end up with what I consider a dream setup for FPS as well:
> 
> Mionix Avior 7000
> Puretrak Talent


Yep, this was what i was actually considering.. just needed somebody to confirm what i already knew. Thanks man!


----------



## lainx

Is the original Puretrak Talent fine for the optic laser in Avior 7000 or should i opt for the Puretrak Stealth?
How does QCK Heavy compare to Talent? I actually enjoy a little bit of friction.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> Is the original Puretrak Talent fine for the optic laser in Avior 7000 or should i opt for the Puretrak Stealth?
> How does QCK Heavy compare to Talent? I actually enjoy a little bit of friction.


I'm considering a Talent for my brand new Avior as well. Anyone with input on this? I actually prefer less friction.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm considering a Talent for my brand new Avior as well. Anyone with input on this? I actually prefer less friction.


I have in mind the following: EC1 EVO, Zowie AM or G400s. What would you say you and others, works best? and quality of construction, etc..

These mice do not need oc USB, no?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> I have in mind the following: EC1 EVO, Zowie AM or G400s. What would you say you and others, works best? and quality of construction, etc..
> 
> These mice do not need oc USB, no?


No modern gaming mice need manual OC of the USB port because the drivers already expose polling rate changes in the software. Don't get the G400s if you can find a G400. Zowie AM, FK, EC1 EVO are all good but quality control is here there and everywhere with Zowie. I would really consider the Avior 7000 if you want a serious mouse with awesome quality feel.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> No modern gaming mice need manual OC of the USB port because the drivers already expose polling rate changes in the software. Don't get the G400s if you can find a G400. Zowie AM, FK, EC1 EVO are all good but quality control is here there and everywhere with Zowie. I would really consider the Avior 7000 if you want a serious mouse with awesome quality feel.


What has that mouse 7000 that moreinteresting?? I really just play with low DPI.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> What has that mouse 7000 that moreinteresting?? I really just play with low DPI.


5.4 m/s perfect control speeds, far more customizability, and it's an optical. Max native DPI is 5000 on that sensor, don't let the 7000 in the name fool you.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 5.4 m/s perfect control speeds, far more customizability, and it's an optical. Max native DPI is 5000 on that sensor, don't let the 7000 in the name fool you.


And EC1 is not optical??


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> And EC1 is not optical??


It is, but the 450 and 1150 DPI steps lag. Only the 2300 DPI step has low latency and also there are no drivers for Zowie mice, no customizability there. It's a raw mouse.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It is, but the 450 and 1150 DPI steps lag. Only the 2300 DPI step has low latency and also there are no drivers for Zowie mice, no customizability there. It's a raw mouse.


The customization I do not care. If I use 2300 DPI, under much sensitivity in the game and you're not? is the same, or not?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> The customization I do not care. If I use 2300 DPI, under much sensitivity in the game and you're not? is the same, or not?


If you are using raw input, yeah you can use 2300 DPI, 1000 Hz. Then you can adjust the game sens according to www.mouse-sensitivity.com to match what you're used to. As far as I'm concerned, Zowie mice are one-DPI mice. Just depends on what you're looking for. If that's it, go for it.

You'll also still be limited to about 3.5-4 m/s due to the use of the 3090 and not a 3310, which isn't suitable if you ever go under maybe 70 to 90 cm/360. But you probably won't be playing that low anyway.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 5.4 m/s perfect control speeds, far more customizability, and it's an optical. Max native DPI is 5000 on that sensor, don't let the 7000 in the name fool you.


How do you like the Avior compared to the Rival? Was considering getting the Naos myself. Can't really get used to the side grips on the Rival unfortunately, I feel like they're way too textured.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> How do you like the Avior compared to the Rival? Was considering getting the Naos myself. Can't really get used to the side grips on the Rival unfortunately, I feel like they're way too textured.


I'll have more thoughts on this when I actually receive the unit tomorrow. I just mainly wanted to go back to an ambi shape cause I loved the shape of my Sensei and I wanted adjustable LOD in the drivers. I actually loved the side grips on the Rival, I may miss those a bit. But that's just me. Build quality just isn't the best on the Rival.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'll have more thoughts on this when I actually receive the unit tomorrow. I just mainly wanted to go back to an ambi shape cause I loved the shape of my Sensei and I wanted adjustable LOD in the drivers. I actually loved the side grips on the Rival, I may miss those a bit. But that's just me. Build quality just isn't the best on the Rival.


Tell me your thoughts when you get it then


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Tell me your thoughts when you get it then


FWIW, here's what I thought about the Rival. This is my YouTube channel.


----------



## lainx

I decided to pick up the Avior 7000 today and weirdly enough it tracks just fine on the same mouse pad i was using the rival on which had issues.
I sold the Rival to my roommate because he wasn't experiencing any issues at all, and he's using a cloth pad. I was set on getting the Talent for my Avior 7000 because i was sure to experience the same issues as with the Rival but it works just fine!

It's fantastic, Fits my hand like a glove. Way better than Rival which was too large for me.

EDIT:
The only downside is the glossy finish on the Avior 7000. I agree with metal571 that the rubberized texture on the rival was really good. The Avior 7000 tends to get a little bit slippery because of hand sweat.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> FWIW, here's what I thought about the Rival. This is my YouTube channel.


Yeah, I saw that video. Nice one!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> I decided to pick up the Avior 7000 today and weirdly enough it tracks just fine on the same mouse pad i was using the rival on which had issues.
> I sold the Rival to my roommate because he wasn't experiencing any issues at all, and he's using a cloth pad. I was set on getting the Talent for my Avior 7000 because i was sure to experience the same issues as with the Rival but it works just fine!
> 
> It's fantastic, Fits my hand like a glove. Way better than Rival which was too large for me.


This is awesome to hear. So have you actually tried it on the Talent? I may just have to order one today then. lol


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> This is awesome to hear. So have you actually tried it on the Talent? I may just have to order one today then. lol


Nope.. They didn't have it in store so if i wanted one i had to order it online. I figured that if it wasn't working on my current mousepad i could just stick with my G700 til i got the Talent. Since it's working fine with my current mouse pad i don't see any reason to upgrade to a Talent for now. I might pick one up next month just for the hell of it, but frankly i really enjoy the one i got atm.


----------



## Master davo 1

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

1800 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't have a maximum budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?

2 for jets in BF4

5. What games do you play?

FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master davo 1*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1800 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Don't have a maximum budget
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> 2 for jets in BF4
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes


I almost feel bad about recommending this mouse so much but it really is awesome. Check out the Mionix Avior 7000 and see what you think.


----------



## xVes

Hey all,

In the market for a new mouse now as my baby (Logitech MX518) has finally met its end unfortunately after about 7 years, and so here I am. I've done a little research on some mouses myself, but I'd also like some opinions and suggestions from others.

1. What's your grip style?
I switch between palm and fingertip, sometime combining both if that makes any sense.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Typically I use the native DPI, whatever that may be. 800 DPI is my sweet spot, occasionally I'll bump it up to 1600-1800.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Preferably less than $100, but willing to go over if I find something worth it and highly touted.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't matter, though an additional side button or two would be good as a ptt key for Mumble/TS.

5. What games do you play?
Primarily FPS (BF4 and PS2 are my main squeezes right now). I play the occasional MMO if I need a break from the shooting.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't really know what this meams or implies. If anyone wants to shed some light on it for me, go ahead. Otherwise, I don't really care.

7. Other relevant information:
Might also be in the market for a new mouse pad, depending on the mouse I get and how good or bad the tracking is I'm getting with my current pad (Steelseries QcK). So if anyone has any suggestions for mouse pads to go along with it, I'm all ears.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> In the market for a new mouse now as my baby (Logitech MX518) has finally met its end unfortunately after about 7 years, and so here I am. I've done a little research on some mouses myself, but I'd also like some opinions and suggestions from others.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I switch between palm and fingertip, sometime combining both if that makes any sense.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Typically I use the native DPI, whatever that may be. 800 DPI is my sweet spot, occasionally I'll bump it up to 1600-1800.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Preferably less than $100, but willing to go over if I find something worth it and highly touted.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Doesn't matter, though an additional side button or two would be good as a ptt key for Mumble/TS.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Primarily FPS (BF4 and PS2 are my main squeezes right now). I play the occasional MMO if I need a break from the shooting.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't really know what this meams or implies. If anyone wants to shed some light on it for me, go ahead. Otherwise, I don't really care.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Might also be in the market for a new mouse pad, depending on the mouse I get and how good or bad the tracking is I'm getting with my current pad (Steelseries QcK). So if anyone has any suggestions for mouse pads to go along with it, I'm all ears.


Hi, since you came from a mx518, how about trying G400s? It is very similar to a mx518/G400v1 without the angle snapping/prediction. The design might be a turnoff though compared to mx518/G400.

For your question about prediction, you can watch it 



 to have a rough idea what prediction actually is.

As for other mice, you can also try SS Kana v2 and it works well with your current QCK mousepad. Similar shape as MX518 as well. not completely the same, but similar! So that you do not need to completely adjust holding the mice.

EDIT: typo


----------



## Minusorange

1. What's your grip style?
Palm mainly but sometimes tips

2. What's your sensitivity?
On my G5 I always have it max

3. What's your maximum budget?
£60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least button 4 for going back on webpages and using for knife in FPS

5. What games do you play?
FPS & MMO's

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know or care if I mind

7. Other relevant information:
I basically want another Logitech G5 or a fix for the problem I'm having with it randomly switching on & off during gaming sessions


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm mainly but sometimes tips
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> On my G5 I always have it max
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> £60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least button 4 for going back on webpages and using for knife in FPS
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS & MMO's
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know or care if I mind
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I basically want another Logitech G5 or a fix for the problem I'm having with it randomly switching on & off during gaming sessions


You will do a lot better with a G400s.


----------



## xVes

@Dyaems: The G400s is definitely one I'm considering, for obvious reasons. Keeping my options open though, been looking at Roccat, SS and Mionix mouses as well. The price of the G400s is enticing though.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> @Dyaems: The G400s is definitely one I'm considering, for obvious reasons. Keeping my options open though, been looking at Roccat, SS and Mionix mouses as well. The price of the G400s is enticing though.


Hopefully that list includes:

Mionix Naos/Avior 7000
SteelSeries Rival
Roccat Kone Pure Optical
Roccat Savu

That would be my (basically complete) list of decent current mice from those companies.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> @Dyaems: The G400s is definitely one I'm considering, for obvious reasons. Keeping my options open though, been looking at Roccat, SS and Mionix mouses as well. The price of the G400s is enticing though.


Yeah, I would definitely get the G400s for its price, but if you can spend more than that, you can go with what metal571 posted.


----------



## xVes

@metal571: Yeah I've browsed and read up a bit on most of the mouses from those companies. I''ve also looked at some Corsair mouses and the Feenix Nascita (recommended by a friend). Might actually end up buying a few mouses just to see which I like better and end up returning others. Appreciate that list.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> @metal571: Yeah I've browsed and read up a bit on most of the mouses from those companies. I''ve also looked at some Corsair mouses and the Feenix Nascita (recommended by a friend). Might actually end up buying a few mouses just to see which I like better and end up returning others. Appreciate that list.


Just be careful. The Feenix Nascita, Corsair M60, Corsair M65, and Corsair M95 all use VSCEL lasers with an inconsistent acceleration curve. I wouldn't recommend any of them for FPS just by their sensor alone. They should be last resort choices if you can't stand the shape of the other mice.


----------



## xVes

Leaning towards the G400s or Mionix Avior 7000. Have heard nothing but great things about both and they both happen to be available at the local Fry's out here.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You will do a lot better with a G400s.


Looking at one it looks just like my G5 which I love, used it for 7 years so it will probably just have the same feel as the G5 right ? I notice it doesn't have the led for sensitivity though ?

Also was looking at Razer Naga and Steelseries Sensei, either of them recommended ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Looking at one it looks just like my G5 which I love, used it for 7 years so it will probably just have the same feel as the G5 right ? I notice it doesn't have the led for sensitivity though ?
> 
> Also was looking at Razer Naga and Steelseries Sensei, either of them recommended ?


The Naga runs a PTE, and the Sensei runs an ADNS-9500, both lasers, both with flaws. Even the G400s isn't perfect since it uses a 4000 CPI SROM with a small input latency...but you probably won't notice it at all. We're picky around here, but you can actually notice the annoying problems with laser technology. The G400s shell is exactly identical in shape to the G5 shell as far as I can remember. I used a G5 for 2 1/2 years myself, it was my first mouse. Terrible max PCS. The G400s is a much better mouse, native CPI is 800. It still holds 5 CPI settings, but yeah there is no LED.


----------



## BigTuna94

Okay so the reciever on my E-3lue Mazer broke. I'm sorry I ever bought that thing. I like the look of it, but it's too light and I'd rather have a bigger mouse in general, I do have largish hands. so I need a new mouse.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-High. I like being able to switch to a very high setting for FPS.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$50. <$40 would be preferable.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. I would like at least one DPI switch, and extra wouldn't hurt.

5. What games do you play?
CS:Go, Assassin's Creed, Skyrim, TF2, Minecraft

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't have any experience with it. I guess I don't know.

7. Other relevant information:
heavier weight, a programmable mouse would be cool. I'd like if I could get a black mouse, possibly with blue LEDs.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Naga runs a PTE, and the Sensei runs an ADNS-9500, both lasers, both with flaws. Even the G400s isn't perfect since it uses a 4000 CPI SROM with a small input latency...but you probably won't notice it at all. We're picky around here, but you can actually notice the annoying problems with laser technology. The G400s shell is exactly identical in shape to the G5 shell as far as I can remember. I used a G5 for 2 1/2 years myself, it was my first mouse. Terrible max PCS. The G400s is a much better mouse, native CPI is 800. It still holds 5 CPI settings, but yeah there is no LED.


Does it have the weights like the G5 ? I like the feel of my G5 with all the weights inside it so hopefully the 400s feels the same weight ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Does it have the weights like the G5 ? I like the feel of my G5 with all the weights inside it so hopefully the 400s feels the same weight ?


Unfortunately no weights for the G400s. I personally like my mice as light as possible so I can't comment here.


----------



## xVes

G400s doesn't, but the G500s does. Can't really comment on the mouse itself as I've never used it.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> G400s doesn't, but the G500s does. Can't really comment on the mouse itself as I've never used it.


wow G500s looks beautiful, think I'm going to be getting this one then! thanks


----------



## xVes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigTuna94*
> 
> Okay so the reciever on my E-3lue Mazer broke. I'm sorry I ever bought that thing. I like the look of it, but it's too light and I'd rather have a bigger mouse in general, I do have largish hands. so I need a new mouse.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium-High. I like being able to switch to a very high setting for FPS.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $50. <$40 would be preferable.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. I would like at least one DPI switch, and extra wouldn't hurt.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:Go, Assassin's Creed, Skyrim, TF2, Minecraft
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't have any experience with it. I guess I don't know.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> heavier weight, a programmable mouse would be cool. I'd like if I could get a black mouse, possibly with blue LEDs.


The G400s from Logitech is probably your best bet. It's right around your budget at around $48 (at least on Amazon) and has the DPI switches you want.


----------



## Razor88

Hey guys, I'm looking for a new mouse









1. What's your grip style?
Claw (A kinda relaxed version of a claw grip)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low-Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$45. <$40 would be preferable.(G400 is juuuust over budget in my country.)

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, preferably.

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 4, Bfme 2, StarCraft 2 (maybe I'll get into it again), RTS's in general

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't know what it is tbh

7. Other relevant information:


----------



## L4dd

*Razor88*, "prediction" is an angle snapping algorithm, which causes tracking to make straight lines via a threshold.


----------



## BigTuna94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xVes*
> 
> The G400s from Logitech is probably your best bet. It's right around your budget at around $48 (at least on Amazon) and has the DPI switches you want.


Looks pretty cool. Actually always had the LEDs on my old mouse off anyway, so I guess I don't need them. the only thing that concerns me then is the weight, and I honestly would rather have a plain black mouse. Not that I don't like the design, I'd just prefer it to match my build and keyboard. If it's not too lightweight I'll probably go for it though. It's reputation is amazing.


----------



## dentnu

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? 1800

3. What's your maximum budget? $200

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes the more the better

5. What games do you play? mmo, fps

6. Do you mind about prediction? ? ? ?

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## Razor88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> *Razor88*, "prediction" is an angle snapping algorithm, which causes tracking to make straight lines via a threshold.


Thanks







No I don't really need it. Any suggestions for me ?

P.S can you code your own prediction algorithm ?


----------



## resumeeee

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? Low-Mid

3. What's your maximum budget? $70

4. Do you want additional buttons? 2 Max

5. What games do you play? MOBA, FPS more casually

6. Do you mind about prediction? If its noticable

7. Other relevant information: I own a Zowie AM which is great for FPS but was thinking about getting another mouse with omron instead of huanos for easier spam clicking in games such as Dota. It still needs to be able to perform in FPS games. I live in AU so sites i might use are pccasegear and mwave.com.au . I was thinking about Kana v2 for $65 but not sure because of LOD problems.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resumeeee*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Low-Mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $70
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? 2 Max
> 
> 5. What games do you play? MOBA, FPS more casually
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? If its noticable
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: I own a Zowie AM which is great for FPS but was thinking about getting another mouse with omron instead of huanos for easier spam clicking in games such as Dota. It still needs to be able to perform in FPS games. I live in AU so sites i might use are pccasegear and mwave.com.au . I was thinking about Kana v2 for $65 but not sure because of LOD problems.


I would think the Roccat Savu should work out pretty well but I don't know the exact price offhand.


----------



## AblueXKRS

1. What's your grip style? Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? 3000 -3500

3. What's your maximum budget? ~$150 new, but I'll probably buy a refurb to cut costs

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes. I need at least two thumb buttons, but four would be massively better. Two or three extra within reach of the left-click on top would also be nice.

5. What games do you play? Mostly MMOs and sandbox games

6. Do you mind about prediction? Prediction?

7. Other relevant information: The lighter the mouse, the better. A removable USB cord would be a huge bonus. It also needs to be a wide, fat thing. A wireless-only mouse is an absolute no-no for me.

I've had a bad run with mouses in the last couple months... My RAT7 suffered a hardware failure just after new year's that left it unable to single-click, so I replaced it (on a supertight budget at the time) with a Mazer Eblue Type-R.

The Mazer worked alright; it was uncomplicated, nice and wide for my hand, and light, except for one drastically annoying problem; there seems to be some combination of mouse and keyboard buttons that resets the Type-R to its lowest DPI setting, something approximately 600 DPI. I know I'm not accidentally tapping the DPI selection button, because it's well-placed, out of the way of regular use. I'm not sure exactly what this keycombo is, but I hit it four or five times an hour while playing Guild Wars, which is anathema to actually playing and incredibly frustrating.

Then, on the recommendation of my bf, I bought a Logitech G700 (refurb, again, to keep the price down). It's pretty much what I need and want in a mouse, with a comfortable number of buttons in comfortable positions. I love the four thumb buttons and the three extra index buttons next to the left click, and the removable USB cord is fantastic, but there are two major issues I have with the mouse. The first is that it's godawful heavy; it feels two or three times heavier than the cheapo Mazer. The second is the shape; the thumb cutaway forces me to constrict my hand in an uncomfortable manner to ensure I have a good grip; after and hour of using the thing, my hand, wrist, and arm ache.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 3000 -3500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? ~$150 new, but I'll probably buy a refurb to cut costs
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes. I need at least two thumb buttons, but four would be massively better. Two or three extra within reach of the left-click on top would also be nice.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Mostly MMOs and sandbox games
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Prediction?
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: The lighter the mouse, the better. A removable USB cord would be a huge bonus. It also needs to be a wide, fat thing.
> 
> I've had a bad run with mouses in the last couple months... My RAT7 suffered a hardware failure just after new year's that left it unable to single-click, so I replaced it (on a supertight budget at the time) with a Mazer Eblue Type-R.
> 
> The Mazer worked alright; it was uncomplicated, nice and wide for my hand, and light, except for one drastically annoying problem; there seems to be some combination of mouse and keyboard buttons that resets the Type-R to its lowest DPI setting, something approximately 600 DPI. I know I'm not accidentally tapping the DPI selection button, because it's well-placed, out of the way of regular use. I'm not sure exactly what this keycombo is, but I hit it four or five times an hour while playing Guild Wars, which is anathema to actually playing and incredibly frustrating.
> 
> Then, on the recommendation of my bf, I bought a Logitech G700 (refurb, again, to keep the price down). It's pretty much what I need and want in a mouse, with a comfortable number of buttons in comfortable positions. I love the four thumb buttons and the three extra index buttons next to the left click, and the removable USB cord is fantastic, but there are two major issues I have with the mouse. The first is that it's godawful heavy; it feels two or three times heavier than the cheapo Mazer. The second is the shape; the thumb cutaway forces me to constrict my hand in an uncomfortable manner to ensure I have a good grip; after and hour of using the thing, my hand, wrist, and arm ache.


Try the G602.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Try the G602.


I think, then, I should add that a wireless-only mouse is an absolute no-no for me.

But thank you for the suggestion... but for that it would have been perfect.


----------



## Minusorange

Right so I'm probably getting the G500s in a couple of days, just wanted to see if anyone has anything negative to say about it to change my mind or offer alternative suggestions ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I think, then, I should add that a wireless-only mouse is an absolute no-no for me.
> 
> But thank you for the suggestion... but for that it would have been perfect.


Oh alright, I thought you might have still wanted wireless. Take a look and see if the Mionix Naos 7000 fits your needs. I bet it would, although it doesn't have 4 side buttons though like the Logitech mice do. Another possibility is the G500s since it has more side buttons, although the sensor is inferior to the Naos.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Right so I'm probably getting the G500s in a couple of days, just wanted to see if anyone has anything negative to say about it to change my mind or offer alternative suggestions ?


There's something negative we can say about every mouse...









The G500 is a strange mouse. It's using the Avago ADNS 9500 sensor that has random acceleration/deceleration. This is a bad thing. The sensor is also placed toward the front of the mouse. This give an additional feeling of acceleration because of the arc your hand makes from the wrist while mousing.

There is a really nice alternative to the G500 in the G400. It has a centered optical sensor, has a proven design that is the exact same as the G500 in shell structure, has a nice finish, good clicky buttons on the fingers and thumb, and a fantastic cord that is super flexible. What you give up with the G400 is the mass scroll wheel that can be shifted to spin without friction or clicky. You also give up the rough finish and extra side buttons.

I have a couple G500's and it is a good device. There are just others out there that are better for the same price or less that fill the same need/purpose.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> There's something negative we can say about every mouse...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The G500 is a strange mouse. It's using the Avago ADNS 9500 sensor that has random acceleration/deceleration. This is a bad thing. The sensor is also placed toward the front of the mouse. This give an additional feeling of acceleration because of the arc your hand makes from the wrist while mousing.
> 
> There is a really nice alternative to the G500 in the G400. It has a centered optical sensor, has a proven design that is the exact same as the G500 in shell structure, has a nice finish, good clicky buttons on the fingers and thumb, and a fantastic cord that is super flexible. What you give up with the G400 is the mass scroll wheel that can be shifted to spin without friction or clicky. You also give up the rough finish and extra side buttons.
> 
> I have a couple G500's and it is a good device. There are just others out there that are better for the same price or less that fill the same need/purpose.


Thanks, I was originally going to go for the 400s after it being recommended but then someone else recommended the 500s and aesthetically it's more pleasing than the 400 especially with the blue LED and patterns it has, also was encouraged by the additional buttons which would be useful for my gaming and the fact it's the successor to the G5 which as been a faithful servant to me for over 7 years but the random disconnects are getting too much for me so I need a new one. The laser issue does concern me, do you happen to know how different it is to the G5 as I don't want to get a mouse that affects my twitching when I play FPS due to a random acceleration


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Thanks, I was originally going to go for the 400s after it being recommended but then someone else recommended the 500s and aesthetically it's more pleasing than the 400 especially with the blue LED and patterns it has, also was encouraged by the additional buttons which would be useful for my gaming and the fact it's the successor to the G5 which as been a faithful servant to me for over 7 years but the random disconnects are getting too much for me so I need a new one. The laser issue does concern me, do you happen to know how different it is to the G5 as I don't want to get a mouse that affects my twitching when I play FPS due to a random acceleration


The G5 uses a completely different laser. The ADNS 9500 and 9800 introduced the inaccuracies of random acceleration. I think the G5 maybe had prediction, but I'm not sure about it's 2000DPI laser engine.

The G400 is a lighter version of the shell of your G5. You also don't have to worry about the design of the G400s if you don't want. You can still buy the old black and grey G400 v2 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Optical-Gaming-High-Precision-Engine/dp/B0055QZ216


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The G5 uses a completely different laser. The ADNS 9500 and 9800 introduced the inaccuracies of random acceleration. I think the G5 maybe had prediction, but I'm not sure about it's 2000DPI laser engine.
> 
> The G400 is a lighter version of the shell of your G5. You also don't have to worry about the design of the G400s if you don't want. You can still buy the old black and grey G400 v2 on Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Optical-Gaming-High-Precision-Engine/dp/B0055QZ216


Yeah the weights is another reason I wanted the 500, took my weights out of the G5 yesterday to test if I like the feel of less weight and it was horrible, so I need a heavy mouse even the 500 with less weights than G5 will still probably feel too light for me


----------



## dentnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dentnu*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1800
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $200
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes the more the better
> 
> 5. What games do you play? mmo, fps
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? ? ? ?
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


My Bad for reposting agian I read a few pages back and read some of the mouse I was thinking of buying like the naga, corsair have laser issues. Can someone recommend me a good mouse the has a few side buttons like the naga ? I was looking as the G602 but really don't want to go back to wireless...

Thanks


----------



## zigziglar

Code:



Code:


1. What's your grip style?

2. What's your sensitivity?

3. What's your maximum budget?

4. Do you want additional buttons?

5. What games do you play?

6. Do you mind about prediction?

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

1, Relaxed claw (by relaxed I mean the base of my palm rests on the table and partially on the base of the mouse, but my fingers are elevated from the first set of knuckles.

2. Depending on the mouse, I use either 800 or 1600/1800dpi with windows mouse setting on number 6 @ full HD resolution.

3. $100ish

4. I'm happy with 2 buttons and scroll wheel, but wouldn't turn down the perfect mouse if it had extras

5. I mostly play RTS such as Starcraft 2.

6. I prefer no prediction, but could possibly get used to minimal/almost not detectable prediction.

7. Here's the important part. My biggest priority is comfort. There are a 100 mouses with comparable button/sensor specs, but the shape is the most unique feature and the one I'm struggling with.

* I have very small hands. I'm a short guy with wide palms and stubby short fingers. I also have a high indisposition to RSI joint paint, so finding a comfortable mouse the most important thing and the most difficult.

Aside from older generation mice, such as the logitech g5, I currently have the Steelseries Kinzu V2, which I bought after I found the Razer Salmosa ASE (pro gamer Asian edition) was actually too small for my "relaxed claw" style. It caused cramping. The Kinzu, however, is just a little too long. My finger tips naturally rest about an inch from the end and this causes a lot of miss-clicks.

KINZU V2
77g
h 36
w 64
l 117

Salmosa Asia
40g
h 33
w 54
l 96

I'm pretty happy with the shape of the Kinzu. The roundish ambidexterous shape suits my grip. The Salmosa had me excited for the first few days, but then its size started taking a toll as none of my palm could really rest on it and my thumb and pinky had to do extra work to grip such a narrow shape.

I've checked out the size comparison chart and I think I'd be looking for something about 110mm long with similar height and width to the kinzu.

The TT Azurues Mini could be a possibility at:
h37mm
w62mm
l114mm

Although I suspect the length reduction of only a few mm would be insufficient. The Mico seems like a possibility, due to its more rounded shape, although it is very close to the Salmosa's tiny shape:

Mico
68g
h 35
w 58
l 98mm

But there doesn't seem to be anything between the really small contenders (Zowie Mico, Pyra etc) and the 114mm mark, unless you start looking at the g9x and whatnot, which I suspect will be too wide.

Any ideas!? Much appreciated.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh alright, I thought you might have still wanted wireless. Take a look and see if the Mionix Naos 7000 fits your needs. I bet it would, although it doesn't have 4 side buttons though like the Logitech mice do. Another possibility is the G500s since it has more side buttons, although the sensor is inferior to the Naos.


Actually I did a little research... Given the godly battery life of the G602, I'm willing to give it a go. I found a refurb for $45, so wheeeeeeee









More Rep+ for you, amazing sir ^_^


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> Actually I did a little research... Given the godly battery life of the G602, I'm willing to give it a go. I found a refurb for $45, so wheeeeeeee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More Rep+ for you, amazing sir ^_^


Great, a lot of people were very happy with that mouse on this forum, as it has a nice sensor as well. Enjoy and thanks.


----------



## resumeeee

is it better than Kana v2 because its the same price in Australia, only problem i heard with savu is tracking on some surfaces


----------



## zigziglar

Pyra vs Mico? I might try one of these out. The Pyra has slightly wider/taller profile and is $30 for the wired version. The Mico has a tracking bug of some description, as far as I'm aware, and is $50, but the shape looks good. Mmmmm


----------



## senko1

1. What's your grip style? Claw grip.

2. What's your sensitivity? 400/800 DPI.

3. What's your maximum budget? 100,00€.

4. Do you want additional buttons? no.

5. What games do you play? CS:GO.

6. Do you mind about prediction? no.

7. Other relevant information:
Im interested in three mouses, Razer DeathAdder 2013, Zowie FK and Steelseries kana v2, but the kana v2 have an high LOD so i dont know..., what will be the best choice?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senko1*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 400/800 DPI.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 100,00€.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? no.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? CS:GO.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? no.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Im interested in three mouses, Razer DeathAdder 2013, Zowie FK and Steelseries kana v2, but the kana v2 have an high LOD so i dont know..., what will be the best choice?


Zowie is good for claw, but the Mionix Avior 7000 is an awesome claw mouse as well, much better than any of the others you just mentioned. Adjustable LOD on it as well.


----------



## senko1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Zowie is good for claw, but the Mionix Avior 7000 is an awesome claw mouse as well, much better than any of the others you just mentioned. Adjustable LOD on it as well.


ths for helping, i think i will go for the mionix avior 7000 (have readed your review).


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senko1*
> 
> ths for helping, i think i will go for the mionix avior 7000 (have readed your review).


No problem, be sure to check out my YouTube video review as well which I just posted today.


----------



## SevenFreak

Hey,

I´m just curious about your opinions - I´m looking for a new mouse and tested so far several models:

Roccat Kone Pure Optical
Roccat Savu, Roccat Kova[+]
Zowie FK, Zowie EC eVo - EC2
Zowie EC eVo CL - EC2
CM Storm Spawn
DA2013
Imperator
Ouroboros
Mamba, Roccat Lua
SS Sensei
Razer Taipan
G400s
G100s
Old mouse was a G9x which I used for several years, so my grip style is a relaxed Claw-grip.

Currently I´m using a G400s which is pretty comfortable and I also like the build quality, buttons, mouse wheel, but my hands aren´t so big so I´m still looking for something "better".

It seems like after all those models, I would prefer some kind of mix between G100s, Zowie FK and Sensei because of the following reasons:


Zowie FK: I liked the low LOD compared to a Roccat Kone Pure Optical, but the mousewheel/buttons feels just weird - maybe I´ll buy a new Zowie FK 2014 and test it for some time to see if I can get used to it.
Sensei: the body and the grip is good for me but could be a little bit flatter on the backside.
G100: unfortunately there are no side buttons which are necessary for me but I like the shape and the size!

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I have already read the review from you metal571 about the Avior and it seems very interesting but I´m not sure if I should try it with those "requirements" because I didn´t like the Roccat Kova+ and also not the Razer Taipan?


----------



## metal571

You knew I was gonna answer this didn't you lol. See the thing I didn't like about the taipan shape either is that they don't give you enough room for your fingers on the sides. Mionix does, and it's well designed. If you like the Sensei shape, most of the time I would say you'd like the Avior shape. That's my take. It goes without saying that the sensor is as close to perfect as it gets. The mouse is flatter on the top as far as I can remember as well.


----------



## SevenFreak

Hehe, I´m glad you did







- thanks. Yeah, another bad example would be the Kone pure Optical, there wasn´t enough space for my fingers on the right side so they touched also very often the mousepad which was annoying and disturbing during playing games but I liked the build quality which was quiet amazing compared to the other mice which I have ordered for testing.

Another question, is Mionix pretty new or just not as common as other brands? I can´t find many products from Mionix here in Austria.

Edit: Avior 7000 has been ordered


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SevenFreak*
> 
> Hehe, I´m glad you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - thanks. Yeah, another bad example would be the Kone pure Optical, there wasn´t enough space for my fingers on the right side so they touched also very often the mousepad which was annoying and disturbing during playing games but I liked the build quality which was quiet amazing compared to the other mice which I have ordered for testing.
> 
> Another question, is Mionix pretty new or just not as common as other brands? I can´t find many products from Mionix here in Austria.
> 
> Edit: Avior 7000 has been ordered


Great, hope you enjoy it as much as I am enjoying playing BF4 with mine right now.

Mionix is pretty new-ish. They aren't as well known but are obviously making a big bang with us nerdier and more knowledgeable gaming mice consumer types. They were established in 2007 and have 5 employees currently designing everything from scratch to be as perfect as possible. Talk about a dedicated company.


----------



## rogerthat1945

64-pages was too much to read.

I don`t know about all everyone else`s needs, but in a mouse I NEED three things.

1) AMBIDEXTROUS. (10% of the worlds population is left-handed)

2) Works with the software for every system Windows XP ,Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Linux/Ubuntu. (We all average more then one computer)

3) Wireless. (although I have a great alternative/improvement to the wired option [for those critics who think wireless is slightly sluggish]).

Other than that I like a certain size and weight and battery life.

Actual concept-Ideas, I would want paying for.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rogerthat1945*
> 
> 64-pages was too much to read.
> 
> I don`t know about all everyone else`s needs, but in a mouse I NEED three things.
> 
> 1) AMBIDEXTROUS. (10% of the worlds population is left-handed)
> 
> 2) Works with the software for every system Windows XP ,Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Linux/Ubuntu. (We all average more then one computer)
> 
> 3) Wireless. (although I have a great alternative/improvement to the wired option [for those critics who think wireless is slightly sluggish]).
> 
> Other than that I like a certain size and weight and battery life.
> 
> Actual concept-Ideas, I would want paying for.


The only wireless mice I can think of that are ambidextrous and are usable (but there is no such thing as closed source gaming mouse drivers for GNU/Linux) on all OSs would be:

Razer Ouroboros
SteelSeries Sensei Wireless

Both of which are complete **** and you shouldn't buy them because they are both laser mice with inconsistent positive acceleration and are not to be used for serious gaming. But, maybe you might like them if you aren't as competitive as myself.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Great, hope you enjoy it as much as I am enjoying playing BF4 with mine right now.
> 
> Mionix is pretty new-ish. They aren't as well known but are obviously making a big bang with us nerdier and more knowledgeable gaming mice consumer types. They were established in 2007 and have 5 employees currently designing everything from scratch to be as perfect as possible. Talk about a dedicated company.


I like the fact that they do try to listen. Actually some Steelseries reps are trying to change their mice based by this forum's feedback, awsome.
I've said it some times already.. the mouse seems really really promising according to the reviews.

I hope it will be here soon.. my Deathadder died on me and i wanna play properly again.


----------



## AbidingDude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rogerthat1945*
> 
> 64-pages was too much to read.
> 
> I don`t know about all everyone else`s needs, but in a mouse I NEED three things.
> 
> 1) AMBIDEXTROUS. (10% of the worlds population is left-handed)
> 
> 2) Works with the software for every system Windows XP ,Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Linux/Ubuntu. (We all average more then one computer)
> 
> 3) Wireless. (although I have a great alternative/improvement to the wired option [for those critics who think wireless is slightly sluggish]).
> 
> Other than that I like a certain size and weight and battery life.
> 
> Actual concept-Ideas, I would want paying for.


Fellow left hander here,
IMHO, the only good ambidextrous mice are corded,
I've used the Logitech M510 which is wireless, But I found it too small for my liking
It's tough being a lefty in a right handers world


----------



## zigziglar

The Roccat Pyra is ambidextrous and offers a pretty decent optical sensor and good software configurbility, but it is a small form factor, as are probably the majority of wireless mice - given their target market is portable computing.


----------



## renji1337

1. What's your grip style? Claw and then palm when lazy

2. What's your sensitivity? I've used 1800 dpi but 3200 worked well

3. What's your maximum budget? 70$

4. Do you want additional buttons? possibly

5. What games do you play? BF4/WoW/GW2/CS:S

6. Do you mind about prediction? dont want it.

7. Other relevant information: Have a cm storm spawn that i love, but its falling apart. looking to either get a new mouse or another spawn, how is the mionix naos 7000


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw and then palm when lazy
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I've used 1800 dpi but 3200 worked well
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 70$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? possibly
> 
> 5. What games do you play? BF4/WoW/GW2/CS:S
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? dont want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Have a cm storm spawn that i love, but its falling apart. looking to either get a new mouse or another spawn, how is the mionix naos 7000


Personally I'd get another cm storm (assuming it's out of warranty). There is nothing quite like it in terms of the shape/feel (except maybe the Logitech g9x) and if it works for you, stick with it man.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw and then palm when lazy
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I've used 1800 dpi but 3200 worked well
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 70$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? possibly
> 
> 5. What games do you play? BF4/WoW/GW2/CS:S
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? dont want it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Have a cm storm spawn that i love, but its falling apart. looking to either get a new mouse or another spawn, how is the mionix naos 7000


The Naos is not unlike the Spawn in the fact that it supports more than two fingers on the ol' mousing hand, but it's much MUCH larger. It's not a fingertip mouse at all. If that's what drew you to the Spawn, then avoid the Naos like the plague. It's not an easy mouse to fingertip lift. If you're a palm kinda guy, then the Naos will fit you like a soft touch glove.


----------



## yhyaprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?


I prefer fingertip grip but no problem with palm grip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?


I don't know I want something good when aiming, my current mouse is Microsoft wireless mouse 1000 with 1000 DPI and it's garbage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?


70 USD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?


Yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?


FPS (mostly), racing, emulators.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?


I don't want prediction at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:


I want something excellent for FPS games.
If there's an on-board memory it will be a good thing.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yhyaprince*
> 
> I prefer fingertip grip but no problem with palm grip.
> I don't know I want something good when aiming, my current mouse is Microsoft wireless mouse 1000 with 1000 DPI and it's garbage.
> 70 USD.
> Yes.
> FPS (mostly), racing, emulators.
> I don't want prediction at all.
> I want something excellent for FPS games.
> If there's an on-board memory it will be a good thing.


I still think the Avior is the overall best choice for you. It's 80 USD on Amazon with Prime.


----------



## renji1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The Naos is not unlike the Spawn in the fact that it supports more than two fingers on the ol' mousing hand, but it's much MUCH larger. It's not a fingertip mouse at all. If that's what drew you to the Spawn, then avoid the Naos like the plague. It's not an easy mouse to fingertip lift. If you're a palm kinda guy, then the Naos will fit you like a soft touch glove.


Idk my grip. i'll take a picture of it later for you guys.

Im at college in class but heres a picture.
its claw right?


----------



## rogerthat1945

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The only wireless mice I can think of that are ambidextrous and are usable (but there is no such thing as closed source gaming mouse drivers for GNU/Linux) on all OSs would be:
> 
> Razer Ouroboros
> SteelSeries Sensei Wireless
> 
> Both of which are complete **** and you shouldn't buy them because they are both laser mice with inconsistent positive acceleration and are not to be used for serious gaming. But, maybe you might like them if you aren't as competitive as myself.


You maybe should try and make some extra cash making sure some company fills a vacant space in the open market; we/I do trust your judgement on the topic.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rogerthat1945*
> 
> You maybe should try and make some extra cash making sure some company fills a vacant space in the open market; we/I do trust your judgement on the topic.


Thanks, I wish such a job existed. lol


----------



## TK421

Anyone have a mousepad recommendation for Razer Taipan? (ADNS-9800)

I find the QCK+ kind of unreliable with this sensor. (skipping)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Anyone have a mousepad recommendation for Razer Taipan? (ADNS-9800)
> 
> I find the QCK+ kind of unreliable with this sensor. (skipping)


Corsair MM400 is always good for ADNS-9500/9800 mice.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Corsair MM400 is always good for ADNS-9500/9800 mice.


How does it compare to the razer manticor? (http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Manticor-Aluminum-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00B829UQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394171908&sr=8-1&keywords=razer+manticore)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How does it compare to the razer manticor? (http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Manticor-Aluminum-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00B829UQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394171908&sr=8-1&keywords=razer+manticore)


Never tried it, can't comment.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Never tried it, can't comment.


oh okay

Do you think the surface of the MM400 work well with metal mouse feet (glide, feel etc)? And is it advised against to use the mat with metal mouse feets?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> oh okay
> 
> Do you think the surface of the MM400 work well with metal mouse feet (glide, feel etc)? And is it advised against to use the mat with metal mouse feets?


I didn't even know metal mouse feet existed LOL. I've always used PTFEs on my mice. No idea on that one.


----------



## renji1337

Anyone see my picture so they can tell me what grip i have


----------



## yhyaprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Idk my grip. i'll take a picture of it later for you guys.
> 
> Im at college in class but heres a picture.
> its claw right?


Yes, it's a claw grip.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Anyone see my picture so they can tell me what grip i have


Claw grip.


----------



## renji1337

Alright, maybe the avior 7000 would be a good fit for me? I can get it open box for 60$, and it has 2 extra side buttons vs the spawn which i like. is it bigger than the spawn?


----------



## PhiltK

Im searching for a mouse like the abyssus, cm storm spawn Or g9x...the abyssus doesnt fit my hand pretty well and the other ones arent available anymore or very expensive

Gripstyle:
Fingertip grip and a little bit claw

Sensitivity:
800dpi and 4.7 ingame, so its a very high sense

Budget:
Arround 80€

Additional buttons:
Not neccessary

Games:
Fps games especially csgo

Prediction:
I dont know?!

Other information:
Would be great if the mouse is short...like 115mm or lower


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiltK*
> 
> Im searching for a mouse like the abyssus, cm storm spawn Or g9x...the abyssus doesnt fit my hand pretty well and the other ones arent available anymore or very expensive
> 
> Gripstyle:
> Fingertip grip and a little bit claw
> 
> Sensitivity:
> 800dpi and 4.7 ingame, so its a very high sense
> 
> Budget:
> Arround 80€
> 
> Additional buttons:
> Not neccessary
> 
> Games:
> Fps games especially csgo
> 
> Prediction:
> I dont know?!
> 
> Other information:
> Would be great if the mouse is short...like 115mm or lower


Zowie FK?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Alright, maybe the avior 7000 would be a good fit for me? I can get it open box for 60$, and it has 2 extra side buttons vs the spawn which i like. is it bigger than the spawn?


Should be bigger than the Spawn but I've never owned a Spawn. The shape should suit you just fine.


----------



## mbreslin

Top 1-2 attributes:
1)I have much smaller than average hands.
2)Excellent sensor.

1)Finger tip.
2) I've been using a "microsoft comfort optical mouse 3000", I think it's like 1000dpi, I'm not settled on any particular dpi yet.
3)no budget
4)1-2 side buttons would be nice.
5)Prefer no prediction
7)I actually have gotten quite used to the shape of this mouse, I'd like something similar, if there are LEDs I'd like to either turn them off completely or at least be able to turn them blue. The sensor quality is very high on my list, though no DA.

Thanks!


----------



## Minusorange

Well I got my g500s today, looks fantastic. The feel will take some getting used to and it probably doesn't help that I got a new mouse pad too but so far so good at least I won't have to worry about random disconnects anymore


----------



## mocboy123

Top attribute: I like the mouse to fit in my pretty large (for my size) hands.

Grip: Fingertip/ occasionally claw.

DPI: no clue, I currently game on an office mouse with like 200 DPI, so I don't have a preference for the speed.

Budget: I'd like to keep it under 70.

Additional buttons: Maybe one or two extra from the usual.

Games: FPS is why I'm getting it, but this will be used for multiple genres.

Prediction: I don't know what that is.


----------



## mocboy123

How do you guys feel about the Razer Orochi?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mbreslin*
> 
> Top 1-2 attributes:
> 1)I have much smaller than average hands.
> 2)Excellent sensor.
> 
> 1)Finger tip.
> 2) I've been using a "microsoft comfort optical mouse 3000", I think it's like 1000dpi, I'm not settled on any particular dpi yet.
> 3)no budget
> 4)1-2 side buttons would be nice.
> 5)Prefer no prediction
> 7)I actually have gotten quite used to the shape of this mouse, I'd like something similar, if there are LEDs I'd like to either turn them off completely or at least be able to turn them blue. The sensor quality is very high on my list, though no DA.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm thinking you might like the Avior 7000, take a look at the shape in my review thread. It should work for you, I did look up the comfort optical 3000.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mocboy123*
> 
> Top attribute: I like the mouse to fit in my pretty large (for my size) hands.
> 
> Grip: Fingertip/ occasionally claw.
> 
> DPI: no clue, I currently game on an office mouse with like 200 DPI, so I don't have a preference for the speed.
> 
> Budget: I'd like to keep it under 70.
> 
> Additional buttons: Maybe one or two extra from the usual.
> 
> Games: FPS is why I'm getting it, but this will be used for multiple genres.
> 
> Prediction: I don't know what that is.


Large FPS mouse...SteelSeries Rival.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mocboy123*
> 
> How do you guys feel about the Razer Orochi?


Garbage. Don't even think about it.


----------



## Jisc

Hi Guys, Looking for a new Mouse after my Logitech G5 stopped working after many years.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low

3. What's your maximum budget?
70€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
at least 2 on the left side (like known from G5)

5. What games do you play?
Mostly fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?
i don't want angle snapping (or at least the ability to turn it off)

7. Other relevant information:
can be a bit more heavy, my G5 was with weights at 120g. I dont like "razer style" buttons.

Im also thinking about a new mousepad, currently using the Razer exactmat control, but i have the feeling its a bit too small and i might prefare a soft pad.

7. Hard or cloth?
cloth

8. Rough or smooth?
smooth, but not really sure

9. Which size approximately?
35*35 cm^2 maybe? that isnt much bigger than my current pad, but due to the awkward shape of the pad it feels alot smaller.

10. What's your maximum budget?
20€

Appreciate your help and Thanks in advance.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jisc*
> 
> Hi Guys, Looking for a new Mouse after my Logitech G5 stopped working after many years.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm Grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 70€
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> at least 2 on the left side (like known from G5)
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly fps
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> i don't want angle snapping (or at least the ability to turn it off)
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> can be a bit more heavy, my G5 was with weights at 120g. I dont like "razer style" buttons.
> 
> Im also thinking about a new mousepad, currently using the Razer exactmat control, but i have the feeling its a bit too small and i might prefare a soft pad.
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth?
> cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth?
> smooth, but not really sure
> 
> 9. Which size approximately?
> 35*35 cm^2 maybe? that isnt much bigger than my current pad, but due to the awkward shape of the pad it feels alot smaller.
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> 20€
> 
> Appreciate your help and Thanks in advance.


Mionix Naos 7000 or SteelSeries Rival and a QcK Heavy or a Puretrak Talent.


----------



## HandsomeChow

1. What's your grip style?
Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
2000dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
70 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No need, i don't play any MMO games (LOL, WOW...) no need for those

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 4, Titanfall, Rust. Mainly First Person Shooters and almost all triple A titles.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would like to try it. But i want a mouse that i can turn off prediction if i don't like it

7. Other relevant information:
Just need it to be compact and good for gaming. Nice heavy metal scroll wheel would be nice.

8. Rough or smooth?
Soft touch feel would be nice, smooth would be preferred.

9. Which size approximately?
Need it to be compact, i am constantly traveling and i need to be able to put it in a backpack


----------



## Jaycz

1. Palm

2. Low/400dpi

3. ~70 USD

4. Prefer atleast 6 fully reprogramable buttons (including left/right click and mosue wheel)

5. Counter Strike: GO is all i really need a good mouse for

6. Can turn off/on, if not then OFF

7. A "stiff" mouse wheel, can easily scroll down/up one click, not that important though, will work well with this http://pcxmods.com/products/xtracpads-ripper-xxl.html mouse pad, right hand/ambi, braded/non braded dont matter, weight doesnt matter,

8. doesnt matter

9. enough to palm with smallish hands, ~6.5 in from tip of middle finger to bottom of palm

i've been looking at the steel series ikari, corsair m40, and naos 3200/7000


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaycz*
> 
> 1. Palm
> 
> 2. Low/400dpi
> 
> 3. ~70 USD
> 
> 4. Prefer atleast 6 fully reprogramable buttons (including left/right click and mosue wheel)
> 
> 5. Counter Strike: GO is all i really need a good mouse for
> 
> 6. Can turn off/on, if not then OFF
> 
> 7. A "stiff" mouse wheel, can easily scroll down/up one click, not that important though, will work well with this http://pcxmods.com/products/xtracpads-ripper-xxl.html mouse pad, right hand/ambi, braded/non braded dont matter, weight doesnt matter,
> 
> 8. doesnt matter
> 
> 9. enough to palm with smallish hands, ~6.5 in from tip of middle finger to bottom of palm
> 
> i've been looking at the steel series ikari, corsair m40, and naos 3200/7000


Do you really want 6 programmable buttons? Deathadder fits everything in your list except for the fact that it is missing 1 button. Otherwise the G400 mouse has 7 programmable.


----------



## Overhaze

What gaming mouse most closely resembles the MX Revolution in shape? All these years later the MX Revolution is still the the most comfortable mouse I have ever owned.


----------



## Domiro

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, I have large hands so tips rest at the end of the mouse. Palm partially on desk.

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800 to 2200

3. What's your maximum budget?
100,- Euros

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Preferably, yeah. No need for a huge amount, but more is better.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, (MMO)RPG.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
As little as possible.

7. Other relevant information:
Currently using a worn-down 2011 Razer Naga. Bought it for usage in WoW, for which it works well. Also happy to try wireless if there's anything good available.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domiro*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, I have large hands so tips rest at the end of the mouse. Palm partially on desk.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800 to 2200
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100,- Euros
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Preferably, yeah. No need for a huge amount, but more is better.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, (MMO)RPG.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> As little as possible.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Currently using a worn-down 2011 Razer Naga. Bought it for usage in WoW, for which it works well. Also happy to try wireless if there's anything good available.


I don't do MMO mice, personally. I would recommend you look at the Logitech G602. It's got a good sensor, lots of buttons, and perfect for a palm gripper.


----------



## Domiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I don't do MMO mice, personally. I would recommend you look at the Logitech G602. It's got a good sensor, lots of buttons, and perfect for a palm gripper.


How does the G700S compare?

Price difference is 5 euros and I could live with trading 2 buttons for the rechargable feature.


----------



## fatfree

1. What's your grip style?
Right hand palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low-to-medium depends on game.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Infinite, as long as mouse not made of gold.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Only right-side buttons

5. What games do you play?
FPS, Action-RPG

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I do mind

7. Other relevant information:
My favorite shape is MS3.0; preferably glossy finish and non-braid cable; optical sensor.


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domiro*
> 
> How does the G700S compare?
> 
> Price difference is 5 euros and I could live with trading 2 buttons for the rechargable feature.


I have both the G700S and the G602. The G700S is slightly superior for claw grip and the G602 is slightly superior for palm but they can be used either or. I find the G602 superior in almost every way except the primary and secondary click tactility and side button quantity (tactility is better, however). Perhaps most importantly, the G602 sensor offers a beautiful optical 1:1 experience, while the G700S has slight negative acceleration. Also, the G700S sandpaper grip makes my hands sweat more than any other mouse I've ever tried.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukon Trooper*
> 
> I have both the G700S and the G602. The G700S is slightly superior for claw grip and the G602 is slightly superior for palm but they can be used either or. I find the G602 superior in almost every way except the primary and secondary click tactility and side button quantity (tactility is better, however). Perhaps most importantly, the G602 sensor offers a beautiful optical 1:1 experience, while the G700S has slight negative acceleration. Also, the G700S sandpaper grip makes my hands sweat more than any other mouse I've ever tried.


Thanks Yukon. I don't own either of the mice, so I didn't really have a response. This was perfect.


----------



## Domiro

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Seems I'll be getting a G602 then!


----------



## Mrpeeng

1. What's your grip style?
Right hand palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under 200 unless It comes with some magic beans

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Left side button to use as back

5. What games do you play?
MOBA type of games and Action RPG

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I do mind

7. Other relevant information:
Currently using a G5 from early 00's.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mrpeeng*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Right hand palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> medium
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Under 200 unless It comes with some magic beans
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Left side button to use as back
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> MOBA type of games and Action RPG
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I do mind
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Currently using a G5 from early 00's.


Just get a Logitech g400 v2. You can pick em up cheap and they're fantastic. As long as you're happy with the shape of the current G5, then you're golden.


----------



## kga92

I am currently using a Deathadder 3.5G Optical, I love this mouse but my problem with it is that it has no support for my ring and little finger. I bought a mionix naos but it was too small. I had a look a the RAT 7 mice but I'm worried about the weight and laser sensor, I also lift my mouse in game pretty much so a low lift-off distance would be nice.

With my deathadder I have to hold my fingers to the straight side of the mouse which starts to hurt my fingers after a while.

It would be nice to have a flat surface that is part of the mouse like the RAT7 but the support the NAOS has would also be okay if it's bigger, as my fingers extend pretty far forward.



1. What's your grip style?
Palm.

2. What's your sensitivity?
3500

3. What's your maximum budget?
100 € if that's what it takes.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Min. 5 buttons, does not matter if there is more.

5. What games do you play?
FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yeah I guess I would.

TL;DR
Basically a mouse very much like the deathadder but with proper support for ring and little finger.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kga92*
> 
> I am currently using a Deathadder 3.5G Optical, I love this mouse but my problem with it is that it has no support for my ring and little finger. I bought a mionix naos but it was too small. I had a look a the RAT 7 mice but I'm worried about the weight and laser sensor, I also lift my mouse in game pretty much so a low lift-off distance would be nice.
> 
> With my deathadder I have to hold my fingers to the straight side of the mouse which starts to hurt my fingers after a while.
> 
> It would be nice to have a flat surface that is part of the mouse like the RAT7 but the support the NAOS has would also be okay if it's bigger, as my fingers extend pretty far forward.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 3500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100 € if that's what it takes.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Min. 5 buttons, does not matter if there is more.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yeah I guess I would.
> 
> TL;DR
> Basically a mouse very much like the deathadder but with proper support for ring and little finger.


There is no mouse that fits this description if the Naos is too small for you. That thing is very large in the world of mice. The RAT is actually smaller than the Naos width wise, even with the pinky support piece. But even if it were larger, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Philips Twin-Eye mice are dead to me. If you lift your mouse and play twitch games, then you'll be screwed thanks to the dynamic DPI scaling and Z-Axis bug.


----------



## zigziglar

Not really the same, but what about the CM Storm Spawn? That thing is pretty well suited for large hands with a fingertip grip style.


----------



## HandsomeChow

1. What's your grip style?
Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
2000dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?
70 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No need, i don't play any MMO games (LOL, WOW...) no need for those

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 4, Titanfall, Rust. Mainly First Person Shooters and almost all triple A titles.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I would like to try it. But i want a mouse that i can turn off prediction if i don't like it

7. Other relevant information:
Just need it to be compact and good for gaming. Nice heavy metal scroll wheel would be nice.

8. Rough or smooth?
Soft touch feel would be nice, smooth would be preferred.

9. Which size approximately?
Need it to be compact, i am constantly traveling and i need to be able to put it in a backpack


----------



## kga92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> There is no mouse that fits this description if the Naos is too small for you. That thing is very large in the world of mice. The RAT is actually smaller than the Naos width wise, even with the pinky support piece. But even if it were larger, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Philips Twin-Eye mice are dead to me. If you lift your mouse and play twitch games, then you'll be screwed thanks to the dynamic DPI scaling and Z-Axis bug.


Thanks for the quick response. Sorry I did not mean to say that the NAOS needs to be bigger, just a big higher. The Deathadders height supports my palm really well, if the NAOS was a bit higher about where the logo is my fingers would settle pretty nicely as well. Also if I keep my hand further back it is really comfortable but then a big part of my hand is resting on the table not the mouse. I hope you understand what i'm trying to say







basically the base of my thumb is NOT resting on the table like some people do, I rest it on the mouse and the NAOS is too low for that.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> There is no mouse that fits this description if the Naos is too small for you. That thing is very large in the world of mice. The RAT is actually smaller than the Naos width wise, even with the pinky support piece. But even if it were larger, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Philips Twin-Eye mice are dead to me. If you lift your mouse and play twitch games, then you'll be screwed thanks to the dynamic DPI scaling and Z-Axis bug.


Are the R.A.T. mice with PTE sensors effected by "DPI scaling"? I know Razer's "advanced tracking algorithm" does this, but didn't know any R.A.T. mice had something similar, too. Do applicable R.A.T. mice have this inconsistent CPI, too?


----------



## cKwok

1. What's your grip style?
Palm (Sometimes hybrid with fingertip but lets just say palm)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low, 400dpi 500hz only

3. What's your maximum budget?
1-100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't matter

5. What games do you play?
FPS games,

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No Prediction, smoothing,

7. Other relevant information:
Just want a good mouse that performs well on 400dpi without "laggy smoothing feeling" like the DA 2013
A light mouse is preferred but I could try a heavier one with a decent sensor like the rival









I assume suggestions would be zowie, rival, minoix but I just want some extra input


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Are the R.A.T. mice with PTE sensors effected by "DPI scaling"? I know Razer's "advanced tracking algorithm" does this, but didn't know any R.A.T. mice had something similar, too. Do applicable R.A.T. mice have this inconsistent CPI, too?


I think the newer ones do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cKwok*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm (Sometimes hybrid with fingertip but lets just say palm)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low, 400dpi 500hz only
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 1-100$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Doesn't matter
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS games,
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No Prediction, smoothing,
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Just want a good mouse that performs well on 400dpi without "laggy smoothing feeling" like the DA 2013
> A light mouse is preferred but I could try a heavier one with a decent sensor like the rival
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume suggestions would be zowie, rival, minoix but I just want some extra input


Yeah Zowie FK, Rival, Avior/Naos 7000. I would get the Mionix mice over the Rival, they are a little lighter and their build quality is way better. I have an FK as well and I'm sure you know the limitations of the 3090 well enough if you'd like a mouse like that or not.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Are the R.A.T. mice with PTE sensors effected by "DPI scaling"? I know Razer's "advanced tracking algorithm" does this, but didn't know any R.A.T. mice had something similar, too. Do applicable R.A.T. mice have this inconsistent CPI, too?


All newer PTE sensors in the RAT mice use DPI scaling in order to limit the impact of the Z-Axis bug.


----------



## Jixr

My naga epic is dying, and before I replace it, i'm open to some other models to see whats out there.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, comfort is king for me.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Generally between 1800-2400 depending on what i'm doing at the time.

3. What's your maximum budget?
infinite.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I love the side buttons of my naga, and use them at work, but can learn to live without them.

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, Design work

6. Do you mind about prediction?
? I want as much raw input as possible. no assist, acceleration, etc.

7. Other relevant information:
MUST have a pinky rest. MUST. and be windows/OSX friendly.

I've owned the rat 7, naga, the g600 ( or whichever is the naga copy cat ) but looking for new options.


----------



## cKwok

I'm thinking of getting the rival to test it out if anything due to availability in my area. Does its sensor perform exactly the same as the avior/naos? Thanks!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cKwok*
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the rival to test it out if anything due to availability in my area. Does its sensor perform exactly the same as the avior/naos? Thanks!


For the most part, yes. The only difference is that Mionix allows some fine tuning of the sensor in the way of adjustable LOD. Outside of that the Rival is a great performing mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> My naga epic is dying, and before I replace it, i'm open to some other models to see whats out there.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, comfort is king for me.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Generally between 1800-2400 depending on what i'm doing at the time.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> infinite.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I love the side buttons of my naga, and use them at work, but can learn to live without them.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS, Design work
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> ? I want as much raw input as possible. no assist, acceleration, etc.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> MUST have a pinky rest. MUST. and be windows/OSX friendly.
> 
> I've owned the rat 7, naga, the g600 ( or whichever is the naga copy cat ) but looking for new options.


You'll love the Mionix Naos 7000.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> All newer PTE sensors in the RAT mice use DPI scaling in order to limit the impact of the Z-Axis bug.


I did not know this. Thank you! No other PTE sensor based mouse excluding the 2012 Naga with a certain firmware (it wouldn't be a driver?) and Lachesis 3G have consistent tracking because of altering algorithms?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I did not know this. Thank you! No other PTE sensor based mouse excluding the 2012 Naga with a certain firmware (it wouldn't be a driver?) and Lachesis 3G have consistent tracking because of altering algorithms?


I have the Lachesis 3G. It has no CPI scaling whatsoever. If you claw grip and don't mind a max PCS of 3 m/s and use a hard mat to prevent click bugging due to lack of CPI scaling, it's actually a pretty damn good mouse. Really nice switches. If anyone wants it I would gladly sell it to them though. Also, the original Mamba has no CPI scaling either as long as you are on firmware 1.06 or lower IIRC.


----------



## nlmiller0015

For Palm Grip try Steelseries Rival Zowie EVO series or The deathadder , miniox naos 7000 or you cant wait for the CM Alcor to be released in the uUS


----------



## zom414

My G9X has gone the way of the dodo so I'm looking for something similar.

1. What's your grip style?

Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?

3500

3. What's your maximum budget?

£100

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Would like the mouse wheel to click left/right like the G9X and be programmable.

5. What games do you play?

Anything!

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Happy with it if it can be disabled.

7. Other relevant information:

Anything similar to the G9X really. I could look around for another G9X but I've had it for years and fancy a change.


----------



## nlmiller0015

edit


----------



## semajha

1. What's your grip style?
I guess somewhere in between claw and flattened. I don't completely flatten my hand on the mouse neither do I have an intense claw grip. I have small/medium hands.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I like to experiment with different sensitivities at times but usually low; Especially in CS:Go. However, for desktop work, I keep my sensitive medium-high.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$80s

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Nah, but wouldn't mind if it did came with extra button.

5. What games do you play?
CS:GO mostly but I pretty much play anything... mmos and other fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I don't want any assisted acceleration. Needs to be just raw feedback.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Braided preferred, i'm right handed. Also plan on messing with photoshop and illustrator

Some other questions I have:
Has laser technology improved? I remember people hating on laser sensors, saying it's not good for FPS games.

I also would like to invest in a good mouse pad. Recommendations to go along with mouse?

Thank you in advance


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I have the Lachesis 3G. It has no CPI scaling whatsoever. If you claw grip and don't mind a max PCS of 3 m/s and use a hard mat to prevent click bugging due to lack of CPI scaling, it's actually a pretty damn good mouse. Really nice switches. If anyone wants it I would gladly sell it to them though. Also, the original Mamba has no CPI scaling either as long as you are on firmware 1.06 or lower IIRC.


Thank you! I meant the Mamba, not Naga.
My Lachesis 3G works nicely, but I want a different surface. Please, what's a good one for it?
Also, *Skylit* said that the PTE sensor (all?) had a native 800 CPI pixel array, IIRC. Should I use 875 CPI for the best performance?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Thank you! I meant the Mamba, not Naga.
> My Lachesis 3G works nicely, but I want a different surface. Please, what's a good one for it?
> Also, *Skylit* said that the PTE sensor (all?) had a native 800 CPI pixel array, IIRC. Should I use 875 CPI for the best performance?


I didn't really notice any difference in performance between the CPIs. Even 4000 tracked at a perfect 3 m/s and there wasn't any extra perceivable latency or anything.

That mouse was absolutely godly on my Corsair MM400 which I have since sold to my gf since she's using it with a Sensei now. Hard mat + laser mouse. Hard mat + PTE mouse actually is a surprisingly viable alternative for certain types of games to optical + cloth since PTEs don't have acceleration, and you greatly reduce the effects of the Z axis bug while clicking in particular when you use the mouse with a hard surface. And for 9500/9800 mice, hard surfaces reduce the inconsistent positive accel issue but don't eliminate it. Now, if someone would put an 8200 CPI PTE capable of 200+ IPS with no CPI scaling into an Avior shape, and someone else would make a 19x15 plastic pad with the MM400's surface for me...only then would I switch to a laser setup.


----------



## loki993

Hi Im looking for a good gaming mouse.

1. What's your grip style? Claw/finger...but my fingers are much flatter than most claw grip pictures I see.

2. What's your sensitivity? Not sure really this would be the first mouse with adjustable sensitivity...though I tend to use very high sensitivity in games for fast movements.

3. What's your maximum budget? no more than 70 dollars id say.....

4. Do you want additional buttons? yes at least 2 but 4 would be idea.

5. What games do you play? BF4 mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction? no prediction

7. Other relevant information: Optical only, no acceleration would like something with the buttons lower on the side as my thumb sits low when I hold the mouse. I use a non wasd keyboard configuration and one of the buttons will be for aiming so I need it in a place where I don't have the change my grip to use it.

I was looking at the deathadder but I don't know if the back is too high for my grip style or not and it only has 2 extra buttons. Though I can live with that more would be nice. Plus Ive heard that the build quality isnt the greatest with them. It is supposed to have the best sensor performance from what Ive read though so its still a strong consideration. Performance is the primary concern here.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I didn't really notice any difference in performance between the CPIs. Even 4000 tracked at a perfect 3 m/s and there wasn't any extra perceivable latency or anything.
> 
> That mouse was absolutely godly on my Corsair MM400 which I have since sold to my gf since she's using it with a Sensei now. Hard mat + laser mouse. Hard mat + PTE mouse actually is a surprisingly viable alternative for certain types of games to optical + cloth since PTEs don't have acceleration, and you greatly reduce the effects of the Z axis bug while clicking in particular when you use the mouse with a hard surface. And for 9500/9800 mice, hard surfaces reduce the inconsistent positive accel issue but don't eliminate it. Now, if someone would put an 8200 CPI PTE capable of 200+ IPS with no CPI scaling into an Avior shape, and someone else would make a 19x15 plastic pad with the MM400's surface for me...only then would I switch to a laser setup.


Wait... You sold a mousepad to your girlfriend? That's an odd relationship, man... Just sayin'


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Wait... You sold a mousepad to your girlfriend? That's an odd relationship, man... Just sayin'


^ have to agree with this guy right here


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Wait... You sold a mousepad to your girlfriend? That's an odd relationship, man... Just sayin'


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> ^ have to agree with this guy right here


Lmao gave, not sold. She plays cs go and she was using the Sensei at the time. I corrupted her and made her a PC gamer, and now she's my ex. Well, that worked out well for me. LOL


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Lmao gave, not sold. She plays cs go and she was using the Sensei at the time. I corrupted her and made her a PC gamer, and now she's my ex. Well, that worked out well for me. LOL


I could see charging your ex for a mouse pad, but your girlfriend... That would equal no lovin' for a loooooong time in my household. God knows what she'd start charging me for.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I could see charging your ex for a mouse pad, but your girlfriend... That would equal no lovin' for a loooooong time in my household. God knows what she'd start charging me for.


HAHA yeah. I also ended up giving her my Rival since she was like Omg best mouse ever. I don't think she knows about the Avior yet. Going to try to keep that a secret.


----------



## DivineDark

Hey... At least you had a relationship with someone who would give a ****. My wife just looks at me and rolls her eyes. At least she doesn't complain about my horrendous mouse collection.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Hey... At least you had a relationship with someone who would give a ****. My wife just looks at me and rolls her eyes. At least she doesn't complain about my horrendous mouse collection.


I was lucky. But at this point I ship packages to the University where I attend for grad school and when a new package comes in I get rolled eyes looks from all of my lab mates at once cause they know it's probably going to be either a mouse or headphones LOL


----------



## DivineDark

I'm the same way, man. I buy mice, keyboards, and headphones pretty regularly. Unfortunately, they keep getting more expensive. I think with my new medication change I've solved a bit of the compulsion, but when new mice come out it gets pretty bad.


----------



## KevinV

1. What's your grip style? Claw Grip

2. What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? $100

4. Do you want additional buttons? No but I don't mind if it does have some as long as it's not like those typical MMO mice

5. What games do you play? Starcraft 2

6. Do you mind about prediction? I'd prefer if it can be disabled

7. Other relevant information: Would prefer no acceleration. My favorite mouse that I've tried so far is the Zowie Mico. I prefer a very small and light mouse. The only downside to Zowie is the acceleration and that the cord gets easily damaged (rip mico). My Mico stopped working correctly after 3-4 months; it keeps disconnecting/reconnecting to my computer. I've tried other USB ports and it still acts that way.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KevinV*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw Grip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? No but I don't mind if it does have some as long as it's not like those typical MMO mice
> 
> 5. What games do you play? Starcraft 2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I'd prefer if it can be disabled
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Would prefer no acceleration. My favorite mouse that I've tried so far is the Zowie Mico. I prefer a very small and light mouse. The only downside to Zowie is the acceleration and that the cord gets easily damaged (rip mico). My Mico stopped working correctly after 3-4 months; it keeps disconnecting/reconnecting to my computer. I've tried other USB ports and it still acts that way.


The mico doesn't really have acceleration; well it does, but from what I understand it doesn't really take effect unless you are really swiping the mouse fast like a low DPI user.

It does, however, have prediction, but I don't have any personal experience to comment on the impact this has on accuracy.

As for (very) small mice, the list of options are:

Zowie Mico
Roccat Pyra (wired)
Razer Salmosa Pro edition
Commatech M1 (logitech mini optical shape, but better sensor)

These mice are between 95 and 105mm in length.

The logitech g9x is 107mm with no grip add-ons. The CS Storm is 108, but ultra wide, so possibly not your cup of tea.

The next size bracket (standard small) is around 114-120mm in length and includes a LOT of options, but they may be too large for you as they are for me.

Only mouse from the list I can comment on from personal experience is the Salmosa. It is perhaps a little too small, but it's more the button shape that bothers me. The way the button ends mould upwards combined with the extra light actuation force constantly results in miss clicks, especially the right button (for me), but beyond those issues the mouse itself is good and works fine on 1600dpi full HD on 51% sc2 sensitivty.


----------



## mandoris

I am having mouse problems, and could really use some advice, but it will probably be tough. Any help you guys can provide will be great.

I have been using an original Razer Naga for some time, and then the 2012 edition of same. I do MMOs so it is a great mouse. However, I am 36 now and use computers for work and play, and the past couple months my (right) hand was hurting. Pain in the wrist a bit, but mainly the knuckles in my middle/ring/pinky finger, extending on into the webbing in the top of my hand. Using the mouse I used to love hurts now.









Since then, I have tried a few different mice, but none were quite right, so I returned them.

Mionix NAOS 8200 - this was pretty good, I may ultimately go back to it if I can't find anything better, but wasn't perfect
Razer Naga 2014 edition - using this right now, it is passable for short usage but the hump in the back feels a little high, I can't find a way to comfortably rest my hand on it
Func MS3-rev2 - I thought this palm style mouse would be great, as it was a NAOS with a pinky rest. It was not... the "ledge" for the ring and pinky fingers is too slim, and I constantly felt like they were about to fall off, causing my hand to not be able to relax.
Razer Deathadder - I always loved the old Microsoft mice, and this has been favorably compared to those. I put it away the same day I brought it out. It was actually perfect for my middle finger, but my ring finger felt like it was being forced apart from the middle finger, and the tension of that was immediately uncomfortable.









So, I'm trying to figure out what to take for a test run next. I'm wondering if maybe I've been going about this the wrong way... My problem is my hand hurts, I thought because it couldn't relax, as my original naga had more of a claw grip going on, with no support for the ring/pinky fingers. I've been trying palm grips to try to allow the muscles in my hand to relax, but often I feel now like maybe by knuckles would feel better in a claw grip, as these palms haven't been working out.









It really is frustrating, I know I sound picky, but when you just want to enjoy your games, or when work has you mousing for hours a day (same mouse), you can't use a mouse that literally causes physical pain.









Was hoping maybe someone had a similar experience and had some insights, or just some good suggestions.







I like MMO buttons, but insisting on that really slashes my options hard.







Most importantly, I just need comfort. I'm thinking maybe a relatively flat mouse to try next, as my main complaint about the naga 2014 is that it sits high and has a tall profile. Getting old blows.







Thanks all.


----------



## zigziglar

With an ambidextrous mouse, your ring and pinky fingers are forced to spread right from the middle finger, especially if the mouse is too large for your claw grip. You are then squeezing the right side of the mouse with these fingers from an awkward position - so it's not a great surprise that this could lead to pain over time.

A narrower and lower mouse could alleviate a lot of this stress, especially in conjunction with an ergonomic shape to suit your right hand.

Have you tried your hand at (pun intended) any smaller mice? This will mean sacrificing the extra buttons, but it's better than having to give it up all together. See if you've got a Logitech mini optical tucked away somewhere and see how that feels. It is 104mm long, which should still be ok for claw grip, but it's much narrower and shorter. I'm not necessarily suggesting you use this mouse, but it sits at the other end of the size spectrum compared to the Naga and should give you a second point of comparison to work from.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mandoris*
> 
> I am having mouse problems, and could really use some advice, but it will probably be tough. Any help you guys can provide will be great.
> 
> I have been using an original Razer Naga for some time, and then the 2012 edition of same. I do MMOs so it is a great mouse. However, I am 36 now and use computers for work and play, and the past couple months my (right) hand was hurting. Pain in the wrist a bit, but mainly the knuckles in my middle/ring/pinky finger, extending on into the webbing in the top of my hand. Using the mouse I used to love hurts now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since then, I have tried a few different mice, but none were quite right, so I returned them.
> 
> Mionix NAOS 8200 - this was pretty good, I may ultimately go back to it if I can't find anything better, but wasn't perfect
> Razer Naga 2014 edition - using this right now, it is passable for short usage but the hump in the back feels a little high, I can't find a way to comfortably rest my hand on it
> Func MS3-rev2 - I thought this palm style mouse would be great, as it was a NAOS with a pinky rest. It was not... the "ledge" for the ring and pinky fingers is too slim, and I constantly felt like they were about to fall off, causing my hand to not be able to relax.
> Razer Deathadder - I always loved the old Microsoft mice, and this has been favorably compared to those. I put it away the same day I brought it out. It was actually perfect for my middle finger, but my ring finger felt like it was being forced apart from the middle finger, and the tension of that was immediately uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm trying to figure out what to take for a test run next. I'm wondering if maybe I've been going about this the wrong way... My problem is my hand hurts, I thought because it couldn't relax, as my original naga had more of a claw grip going on, with no support for the ring/pinky fingers. I've been trying palm grips to try to allow the muscles in my hand to relax, but often I feel now like maybe by knuckles would feel better in a claw grip, as these palms haven't been working out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really is frustrating, I know I sound picky, but when you just want to enjoy your games, or when work has you mousing for hours a day (same mouse), you can't use a mouse that literally causes physical pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was hoping maybe someone had a similar experience and had some insights, or just some good suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like MMO buttons, but insisting on that really slashes my options hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most importantly, I just need comfort. I'm thinking maybe a relatively flat mouse to try next, as my main complaint about the naga 2014 is that it sits high and has a tall profile. Getting old blows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all.


If you need something smaller, maybe the Savu or the EC2 would work. If not, the Naos 7000 is better than the 8200 you already tried, better sensor.


----------



## SimonKaz

1. What's your grip style?
Finger/claw hybrid. Mostly finger, I lift with my pinkie and thumb.

2. What's your sensitivity?
2500 on g602, 1200 on Mionix avior 7000.

3. What's your maximum budget?
No limit

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, loved them on g602

5. What games do you play?
RPG and FPS, Also world of Tanks.

Here's my story. I bought Mionix avior 7000 first.
Mionix - Right mouse button died on me after 2 hours of gaming... It's double clicking. slightly lifting it fixes the issue for a couple of clicks, but then it comes back - clearly something wrong.

The mouse was nice, except it felt cheap and the side buttons feel really loose, so I'm never going back to the brand... Squeaky wheel killed the mouse completely for me.

I loved the shape, although it could've been a little shorter. I also loved the responsiveness of left (and for a while, right) mouse button. Snappy and short.

Logitech G602 - I'm starting to have cramps in my arm due to the shape + deep left/right buttons. I really want to like the mouse (for the amazing placement of side buttons and those 2 buttons next to left button) but I don't want to get RSI again.

What else is there for me? I' m looking for:

Responsive, snappy, quick buttons. Logitech g602 is too deep, Mionix avior is almost perfect.

• a finger-grip style mouse (right side has to be sloped inwards or with good gripping surface so that I can grip and lift it with my ring/pinkie).

• optical (laser mice are killing me with their huge lift off distance, even after tape mod)

• solid build quality

extra: similar shape to mionix avior would be nice, it was actually pretty good fit.

Amazon is going to hate me for sending back both mice but there's not a single shop that has gaming mice available...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SimonKaz*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Finger/claw hybrid. Mostly finger, I lift with my pinkie and thumb.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 2500 on g602, 1200 on Mionix avior 7000.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> No limit
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, loved them on g602
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> RPG and FPS, Also world of Tanks.
> 
> Here's my story. I bought Mionix avior 7000 first.
> Mionix - Right mouse button died on me after 2 hours of gaming... It's double clicking. slightly lifting it fixes the issue for a couple of clicks, but then it comes back - clearly something wrong.
> 
> The mouse was nice, except it felt cheap and the side buttons feel really loose, so I'm never going back to the brand... Squeaky wheel killed the mouse completely for me.
> 
> I loved the shape, although it could've been a little shorter. I also loved the responsiveness of left (and for a while, right) mouse button. Snappy and short.
> 
> Logitech G602 - I'm starting to have cramps in my arm due to the shape + deep left/right buttons. I really want to like the mouse (for the amazing placement of side buttons and those 2 buttons next to left button) but I don't want to get RSI again.
> 
> What else is there for me? I' m looking for:
> 
> Responsive, snappy, quick buttons. Logitech g602 is too deep, Mionix avior is almost perfect.
> 
> • a finger-grip style mouse (right side has to be sloped inwards or with good gripping surface so that I can grip and lift it with my ring/pinkie).
> 
> • optical (laser mice are killing me with their huge lift off distance, even after tape mod)
> 
> • solid build quality
> 
> extra: similar shape to mionix avior would be nice, it was actually pretty good fit.
> 
> Amazon is going to hate me for sending back both mice but there's not a single shop that has gaming mice available...


There isn't a better claw optical mouse that I know of than the Avior right now. Just send back the Avior and get another one. Amazon will give you a free return label if you tell them it was defective. Mine is perfect and shows no sign of stopping, you just got a dud. All products today do that from time to time. Don't lose hope unless it happens time and time again...like Razer.


----------



## zigziglar

The Avior is quite large for a claw mouse. You guys must have big hands, unlike me haha. I need something like the Mico to claw comfortably.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip...or palm, depending on the mouse and size. Claw is never comfortable because mice are too small/hands are too big.

EDIT - I lied...I just looked at my hand while using my G5, and even with the larger mouse, it's definitely fingertip still. Would have to be a pretty large (tall and long) mouse for palm to hit, so I guess my grip has changed over the years.

2. What's your sensitivity?

Been using a G5 for over 5 years...now a Storm Spawn...so I'm open to getting use to something new, but I did like 800 DPI/1000hz on my G5. Still not sure what to think about the Spawn, I've only had it for a short time, but I have found it works nicely for fingertip grip at 1800 DPI/1000hz.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Doesn't matter, but I don't want to pay $90+ to "try" something I end up not liking. I never really understood all of you guys with mouse collections, as my trusty G5 had served me well for many years, but it's sensor going...So I bought the Storm Spawn because it was on sale for $30. I do like it, but it doesn't seem very, I don't know, high quality? So now I can see myself building up a little collection of my own trying to find my next "G5", so to speak. I don't mind a light mouse, in fact, for fingertip/claw I much prefer a lighter mouse...it's hard to explain, but I can't see this Spawn lasting 5+ years like my G5, I guess.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Honestly, just need DPI +/-, and a mouse wheel that doesn't cause any accidental middle clicks. Other than that, I never use any extra buttons.

5. What games do you play?

Anything...nothing competitive or anything, but I am OCD about my mouse and keyboard...I want something that will fit me and be able to spend another 5+ years with, and least in form factor. I don't use separate mice for different games, once I get adjusted with the feel of a mouse, I prefer to stick with it as long as possible. Mostly FPS games though.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I would prefer no prediction, but can deal with it on the right mouse...tough to explain, but it comes down to feel I guess.

7. Other relevant information:

Don't want an ambi mouse, don't care too much about LOD, but lower is better. Prefer lighter mice, but can't feel cheap in the same regard...again, tough to explain...Spawn feels cheap. Wired, don't care about braided or not. Don't care about rubber coatings, grips, or any of that, as long as the mouse is ergonomic. Not sure about actuation force on the buttons, but I know I like the clicks on the G5 better than my Spawn. Sometimes I accidentally double click my Spawn instead of single, but I am still getting used to it...so yeah. Basically, I know people are going to recommend the Logitech G400s/G500s, but, I can't stand the looks of them. My G5 was the blue/silver version, the cleanest looking one...and even this Spawn is not going to keep a permanent home on my desk. I want something that looks nice, without being flashy. I want something that feels quality in my hand, and also has looks that back that up. I want something that I will feel comfortable looking at for the next 3+ years minimum...I don't care how comfortable a mouse is, how perfect a sensor is...if it's something I am ashamed to have sitting on my desk. So yeah, I have looked at both the G400S and G500S in store, and the graphics printed on the shells just make them look cheap...even if they are great.

So yeah, long story short, was using a G5 for 5+ years, just recently got a Storm Spawn that isn't quite doing it for me, and looking to try something new that I can hopefully stick with some time.


----------



## xD4rkFire

*1. What's your grip style?
*
Palm and claw (claw not so much). If it's any indication, I've been using my Razer Deathadder 3.5g for a little over 2 years now.

*2. What's your sensitivity?
*
In CS:GO, 900DPI/ 1.1 game sensitivity = 16.5289 inches for a 360

*3. What's your maximum budget?
*
$60

*4. Do you want additional buttons?
*
Preferably a mouse with at least 2 side buttons

*5. What games do you play?*

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, shooter games in general

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes, a mouse without prediction is absolutely vital to success in a first person shooter.

*7. Other relevant information*

An ambidextrous mouse would be cool to try. I'm a lefty but I've used computer mice with my right hand my whole life and it'd be cool to be able to experiment and see how my mouse control is if I use my dominant hand.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xD4rkFire*
> 
> *7. Other relevant information*
> 
> An ambidextrous mouse would be cool to try. I'm a lefty but I've used computer mice with my right hand my whole life and it'd be cool to be able to experiment and see how my mouse control is if I use my dominant hand.


For what it's worth, my brother is left handed, but has grown up around right handers and as such learnt to use his right hand to operate a mouse. His ability to use the mouse with his left hand is not as good as his right, but it's still a lot better than anyone using their off hand. I think you could train yourself to the same level of proficiency rather quickly.


----------



## aR3alCoo1Kat

1. What's your grip style?
Palm (General Use) / Claw (Gaming)

2. What's your sensitivity?
Idk

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Standard 3 buttons is fine.

5. What games do you play?

Mostly Dota 2 and sometimes LoL and RPGs

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Idk

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.

Rubber surface, Hybrid grip.

My previous CM Storm Xornet is acting up so I want to replace it.
Currently using a Logitech M100 for now.
I'm currently looking at the following mice: *Logitech G400s, Steel Series Sensei RAW, Razer Abyssus, Razer Deathadder 2013, CM Storm Alcor/Mizar*
Also, I heard they are going to a new version of the Xornet.


----------



## SimonKaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There isn't a better claw optical mouse that I know of than the Avior right now. Just send back the Avior and get another one. Amazon will give you a free return label if you tell them it was defective. Mine is perfect and shows no sign of stopping, you just got a dud. All products today do that from time to time. Don't lose hope unless it happens time and time again...like Razer.


Welp, I figured I'd give it a try. I'm getting a replacement tomorrow, courtesy of amazon customer service. We'll see how it fares.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> Hi Im looking for a good gaming mouse.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw/finger...but my fingers are much flatter than most claw grip pictures I see.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? Not sure really this would be the first mouse with adjustable sensitivity...though I tend to use very high sensitivity in games for fast movements.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? no more than 70 dollars id say.....
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? yes at least 2 but 4 would be idea.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? BF4 mostly
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: Optical only, no acceleration would like something with the buttons lower on the side as my thumb sits low when I hold the mouse. I use a non wasd keyboard configuration and one of the buttons will be for aiming so I need it in a place where I don't have the change my grip to use it.
> 
> I was looking at the deathadder but I don't know if the back is too high for my grip style or not and it only has 2 extra buttons. Though I can live with that more would be nice. Plus Ive heard that the build quality isnt the greatest with them. It is supposed to have the best sensor performance from what Ive read though so its still a strong consideration. Performance is the primary concern here.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There isn't a better claw optical mouse that I know of than the Avior right now. Just send back the Avior and get another one. Amazon will give you a free return label if you tell them it was defective. Mine is perfect and shows no sign of stopping, you just got a dud. All products today do that from time to time. Don't lose hope unless it happens time and time again...like Razer.


I think I got lost in the shuffle a bit but I think you may have answered my question too with this.

So for Claw/finger the Avior would be better than the Deathadder? How about the build quality, sensor and the like? IT has the extra buttons, but Im not sure theyre in a good spot for what I need them for though and its a little out of my budget but I can stretch it a little.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> I think I got lost in the shuffle a bit but I think you may have answered my question too with this.
> 
> So for Claw/finger the Avior would be better than the Deathadder? How about the build quality, sensor and the like? IT has the extra buttons, but Im not sure theyre in a good spot for what I need them for though and its a little out of my budget but I can stretch it a little.


Look at my review in my thread about the mouse. I am a fingertip grip and the Avior is my primary mouse, replacing everything I had before.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Look at my review in my thread about the mouse. I am a fingertip grip and the Avior is my primary mouse, replacing everything I had before.


It looks pretty much like exactly what Im looking for aside from the price so for me its probably worth it to spend up on it. I may like the side buttons to be a bit bigger or lower on the side but there far enough back and it looks low profile enough that I shouldnt have to adjust much if at all to get to them fast. I think Ill give it a try. Now to try and hunt down a deal on one.


----------



## nged72

1. What's your grip style?
Finger Tip/Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
900-3500

3. What's your maximum budget?
$70

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No Matter

5. What games do you play?

Titanfall/BF4 other FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Meh MEH

7. Other relevant information:
Using Abyssus non Mirror 3.5G and the pads or feet scrape on my new Goliathus Control (upgraded from Goliathus Speed)

Looking at Zowie FK ($61), Roccat Pure Optical ($60), CM Recon (24$) OR OTHER

I have small hands

No Acceleration preferably and ONLY Optical


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Finger Tip/Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 900-3500
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $70
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> No Matter
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Titanfall/BF4 other FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Meh MEH
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Using Abyssus non Mirror 3.5G and the pads or feet scrape on my new Goliathus Control (upgraded from Goliathus Speed)
> 
> Looking at Zowie FK ($61), Roccat Pure Optical ($60), CM Recon (24$) OR OTHER
> 
> I have small hands
> 
> No Acceleration preferably and ONLY Optical


Abyssus is 115mm. The other mice mentioned are 120ish I think. What about a Steelseries Kinzu v2 Pro? That is similar in size to the abyssus and has three large skates. A lot of people love the kinzu shell shape and have even gone to the effort to mod it with a deathadder sensor haha kinzuadder! Not that there's anything wrong with the sensor that's in it.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Abyssus is 115mm. The other mice mentioned are 120ish I think. What about a Steelseries Kinzu v2 Pro? That is similar in size to the abyssus and has three large skates. A lot of people love the kinzu shell shape and have even gone to the effort to mod it with a deathadder sensor haha kinzuadder! Not that there's anything wrong with the sensor that's in it.


I'll have to check it out.

So mad I just got my new mousepad and the feet/pads are scraping on my Abyssus -.-

I guess it's my fault I screwed with them thoug a while back


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> I'll have to check it out.
> 
> So mad I just got my new mousepad and the feet/pads are scraping on my Abyssus -.-
> 
> I guess it's my fault I screwed with them thoug a while back


Bugger. It's funny how you can pay just as much for a mouse pad as a mouse these days!

I've been using a Kinzu at work for 40+ hours a week for months and months on a lightly textured desk surface (which it tracks fine one) and the feet are barely worn at all and still gliding smoothly. I'm not in any way affiliated. I just reckon it's a great no-nonsense mouse, much like the Abyssus is! Ambidextrous, small but comfortable shape, 2 buttons, a scroll wheel and a DPI toggle button. I like the Abyssus too, but I've just never gotten used to the button shape that Razer uses on a lot of its mice.


----------



## Froshty

*1. What's your grip style?*

I'm mostly claw grip. I've used a Logitech MX Laser 832 for 5 years so I've gotten used to the wireless feel. I had a Deathadder before with I really loved but it ended up breaking.

*2. What's your sensitivity?
*
I've used my Logitech for a while so idk what DPI it is. The DPI on Logitech and Deathadder have been good to me. I like fast and precise movement.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

$100+, I just want an amazing mouse so I'm willing to pay a premium

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Preferably a mouse with at least 2 side buttons

*5. What games do you play?*

I just mostly play Dota 2 and League of Legends. If I'm not on those them I am playing anything like Action RPGs and first person shooters, but I love MOBA games!

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I never liked prediction

*7. Other relevant information
*
Anything wireless is a big plus, but it has to have a good functioning wireless or I'll just stick to wired.
I have to retire my logitech mouse since the lag on it has just been horrible now so it's affecting my gameplay, I loved this mouse but I am looking for something new. I still had a very good time with the Deathadder but I'm looking for maybe more of an improvement on that as well.
MY hand is big enough where it fits my logitech mouse completely to even have a claw grip.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Froshty*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> I'm mostly claw grip. I've used a Logitech MX Laser 832 for 5 years so I've gotten used to the wireless feel. I had a Deathadder before with I really loved but it ended up breaking.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?
> *
> I've used my Logitech for a while so idk what DPI it is. The DPI on Logitech and Deathadder have been good to me. I like fast and precise movement.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $100+, I just want an amazing mouse so I'm willing to pay a premium
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Preferably a mouse with at least 2 side buttons
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> I just mostly play Dota 2 and League of Legends. If I'm not on those them I am playing anything like Action RPGs and first person shooters, but I love MOBA games!
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I never liked prediction
> 
> *7. Other relevant information
> *
> Anything wireless is a big plus, but it has to have a good functioning wireless or I'll just stick to wired.
> I have to retire my logitech mouse since the lag on it has just been horrible now so it's affecting my gameplay, I loved this mouse but I am looking for something new. I still had a very good time with the Deathadder but I'm looking for maybe more of an improvement on that as well.
> MY hand is big enough where it fits my logitech mouse completely to even have a claw grip.


Super high quality all-purpose claw mouse: Mionix Avior 7000. The general rule is that all wireless mice are just bad for gaming.


----------



## imbasaurus

i'm leaning on buying a new mouse after using my A4Tech X710BH. as of this typing i just realized this mouse has prediction. which. i kind of hate now realizing it.

as for the questions

1. What's your grip style? - *i have small hands. although i can palm X710BH easily. i can also claw it. depends on the gaming session i switch between palming and clawing my mouse.*

2. What's your sensitivity? - *i'm really good at the max DPI of X7. ranging around 1600DPI*

3. What's your maximum budget? -*around 60$ max*

4. Do you want additional buttons? - *well DPI switching on the fly is kind of a must have. aside from other buttons, my hand is kind of different to even press them. (if you want pics i can provide lol)*

5. What games do you play? - *Dota 2 and CS:GO, other than that i spend most of my time browsing*

6. Do you mind about prediction? - *like i mentioned above. i hate it now







*

7. Other relevant information: - *i live in the Philippines, having said that i have limited choices. as for my next mouse/mice i think i want to have a mouse that as less height than the X7 and a much smaller mice overall. PS: i have sweaty hands







*

Thanks in advance everyone


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imbasaurus*
> 
> i'm leaning on buying a new mouse after using my A4Tech X710BH. as of this typing i just realized this mouse has prediction. which. i kind of hate now realizing it.
> 
> as for the questions
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? - *i have small hands. although i can palm X710BH easily. i can also claw it. depends on the gaming session i switch between palming and clawing my mouse.*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - *i'm really good at the max DPI of X7. ranging around 1600DPI*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? -*around 60$ max*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? - *well DPI switching on the fly is kind of a must have. aside from other buttons, my hand is kind of different to even press them. (if you want pics i can provide lol)*
> 
> 5. What games do you play? - *Dota 2 and CS:GO, other than that i spend most of my time browsing*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? - *like i mentioned above. i hate it now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: - *i live in the Philippines, having said that i have limited choices. as for my next mouse/mice i think i want to have a mouse that as less height than the X7 and a much smaller mice overall. PS: i have sweaty hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Thanks in advance everyone


A4Tech Bloody V-series (Pixart 3305DK)

For FPS gaming, this has a good sensor for 1600DPi (native sensitivity, works best at 1600). And the Bloody 5 macro feature for FPS gaming is enhanced compared to the X7 Oscar editor. Uses Huano click switches (10m click lifespan)

In SEA region, I got mine for $30 less (V8A, core3 activated)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> A4Tech Bloody V-series (Pixart 3305DK)
> 
> For FPS gaming, this has a good sensor for 1600DPi (native sensitivity, works best at 1600). And the Bloody 5 macro feature for FPS gaming is enhanced compared to the X7 Oscar editor. Uses Huano click switches (10m click lifespan)
> 
> In SEA region, I got mine for $30 less (V8A, core3 activated)


Doesn't the 3305 have prediction?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Doesn't the 3305 have prediction?


Very little to none. Not noticeable.


----------



## Mastoras78

1. What's your grip style?

Finger and claw (tending to claw a bit more I believe). In love with my still going strong as day one Logitech G9 (not x)

2. What's your sensitivity?

medium I should say 1200-1800 dpi max with G9

3. What's your maximum budget?

$100+ if something worth it its not a problem

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Preferably a mouse with at least 4 side buttons

5. What games do you play?

Mixed. Mostly MMO's and FPS like Planetside 2.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

If a mouse have all other features I need I don't mind about prediction that much

7. Other relevant information

I want definitely a 4D scroll wheel. Its just that my muscle memory so hard trained on G9 the last 6 years and I am old too







. As you see guys I need a comfortable all around mouse with extra buttons on thumb/wheel. Something that can pull headshots and at same time make my life easier in games like Wildstar. All great fps mice have not many buttons, naga/g600 feel too much and no ideal for fps games. So any ideas ?


----------



## suitaroh

Hello OCN,

I posted in this thread a while back and got some answers, but due to financial circumstances I wasn't able to get a new mouse. Now I'm on the hunt for one again and I've done a little more research. So I'm back to ask for more advice. I'm looking for a replacement for my trustworthy G9x.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm, with a bit of fingertip thrown in for leisurely activities.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I use the DPI turned all the way up on the G9x, I think it's 5700? I know, I'm weird, but I love me some twitch gaming.

3. What's your maximum budget?
~80$ USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, a must have. At least two thumb buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Right now Mechwarrior Online, Payday 2, Crusader Kings II. Generally tend more towards FPS, but also play some RTS and MMO.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I have never noticed the prediction on the G9x.

7. Other relevant information:
I like my mice to be a tad on the heavier side. I'd rather not have a glossy surfaced mouse. Would probably like a shape like the G9x but I'm also comfortable with larger mice like the old Logitech G5. I like/need higher DPI, frankly my G9x's 5700 DPI is no longer fast enough to navigate my new 27in 2560 x 1440 monitor. I'll probably use the mouse on cloth surfaces unless someone can convince me hard surfaces are significantly better. The scroll wheel on the G9x is truly one of my favorite features but I can learn to live without it. As for the big brands; Not interested in Razer at all, Logitech's stuff doesn't come close to the G9x anymore. Currently looking at the Mionix Naos 7000/8200, Corsair M95, Roccat Kone XTD, and perhaps the SteelSeries Rival. Having read around there it seems there is an optical camp and a laser camp, it seems most of the information I come across prefers optical mice and says that the newer laser mice suffer from prediction/inaccuracy. So it looks like the Mionix Naos 7000 would be best for me, Although I would prefer to have more thumb buttons or simulation capabilities like Roccat's EasyShift. On that note I'm actually looking to use the new mouse's software since it seems they've generally advanced since I first got my G9x, so if there are any opinions on the accompanying software functionality of a given company I'd be very interested in knowing them. Are there any other higher DPI optical mice out there or on the horizon? Or is the difference between optical and laser overblown?

Thanks for your time and thoughts


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suitaroh*
> 
> Hello OCN,
> 
> I posted in this thread a while back and got some answers, but due to financial circumstances I wasn't able to get a new mouse. Now I'm on the hunt for one again and I've done a little more research. So I'm back to ask for more advice. I'm looking for a replacement for my trustworthy G9x.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm, with a bit of fingertip thrown in for leisurely activities.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I use the DPI turned all the way up on the G9x, I think it's 5700? I know, I'm weird, but I love me some twitch gaming.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> ~80$ USD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, a must have. At least two thumb buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Right now Mechwarrior Online, Payday 2, Crusader Kings II. Generally tend more towards FPS, but also play some RTS and MMO.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I have never noticed the prediction on the G9x.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I like my mice to be a tad on the heavier side. I'd rather not have a glossy surfaced mouse. Would probably like a shape like the G9x but I'm also comfortable with larger mice like the old Logitech G5. I like/need higher DPI, frankly my G9x's 5700 DPI is no longer fast enough to navigate my new 27in 2560 x 1440 monitor. I'll probably use the mouse on cloth surfaces unless someone can convince me hard surfaces are significantly better. The scroll wheel on the G9x is truly one of my favorite features but I can learn to live without it. As for the big brands; Not interested in Razer at all, Logitech's stuff doesn't come close to the G9x anymore. Currently looking at the Mionix Naos 7000/8200, Corsair M95, Roccat Kone XTD, and perhaps the SteelSeries Rival. Having read around there it seems there is an optical camp and a laser camp, it seems most of the information I come across prefers optical mice and says that the newer laser mice suffer from prediction/inaccuracy. So it looks like the Mionix Naos 7000 would be best for me, Although I would prefer to have more thumb buttons or simulation capabilities like Roccat's EasyShift. On that note I'm actually looking to use the new mouse's software since it seems they've generally advanced since I first got my G9x, so if there are any opinions on the accompanying software functionality of a given company I'd be very interested in knowing them. Are there any other higher DPI optical mice out there or on the horizon? Or is the difference between optical and laser overblown?
> 
> Thanks for your time and thoughts


The first thing I thought of as I read through your desires was the Naos 7000 before you even mentioned it. That's what I'd get too. I can vouch for just how awesome that sensor is too since I have the Avior but I'm a fingertip.


----------



## ghostulated

1. What's your grip style?
palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
400DPI, 2.3 in cs:go, 3 in quake.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$65 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
any five button mouse with two right thumb buttons.

5. What games do you play?
i only play FPS games such as counter strike and quake.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
i prefer zero hardware acceleration or prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
i used 3 mx518s over the course of around 7 years, before their faulty cords stopped me from buying logitech mice anymore. i moved on to the roccat savu which after 8 months of regular use has started to display tracking issues. if i swipe too hard to the left or right it looks downwards and is a massive problem. i've looked at the zowie EC2 evo cL and steelseries rival, both of which have separate issues. if there are any alternatives to these mice, i would be appreciative to know.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostulated*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI, 2.3 in cs:go, 3 in quake.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $65 USD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> any five button mouse with two right thumb buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> i only play FPS games such as counter strike and quake.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> i prefer zero hardware acceleration or prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i used 3 mx518s over the course of around 7 years, before their faulty cords stopped me from buying logitech mice anymore. i moved on to the roccat savu which after 8 months of regular use has started to display tracking issues. if i swipe too hard to the left or right it looks downwards and is a massive problem. i've looked at the zowie EC2 evo cL and steelseries rival, both of which have separate issues. if there are any alternatives to these mice, i would be appreciative to know.


Mionix Naos 7000...mayyybe Corsair M45, but I would go with the former and pony up the extra dough. The Rival really isn't a bad mouse at all, I would grab one from a local Best Buy so you can return it if you don't like it first if your budget is not flexible.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostulated*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI, 2.3 in cs:go, 3 in quake.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $65 USD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> any five button mouse with two right thumb buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> i only play FPS games such as counter strike and quake.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> i prefer zero hardware acceleration or prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> i used 3 mx518s over the course of around 7 years, before their faulty cords stopped me from buying logitech mice anymore. i moved on to the roccat savu which after 8 months of regular use has started to display tracking issues. if i swipe too hard to the left or right it looks downwards and is a massive problem. i've looked at the zowie EC2 evo cL and steelseries rival, both of which have separate issues. if there are any alternatives to these mice, i would be appreciative to know.


Return the Savu for a manufacturer warranty replacement and continue enjoy it. It's a good mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Return the Savu for a manufacturer warranty replacement and continue enjoy it. It's a good mouse.


I still agree with this, especially at only 45cm/360 it should work fine for you.


----------



## ghostulated

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix Naos 7000...mayyybe Corsair M45, but I would go with the former and pony up the extra dough. The Rival really isn't a bad mouse at all, I would grab one from a local Best Buy so you can return it if you don't like it first if your budget is not flexible.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Return the Savu for a manufacturer warranty replacement and continue enjoy it. It's a good mouse.


thanks for the quick replies, i ordered a rival and will return the savu for a replacement.

the reason i need to buy a new mouse today is because i have a match on thursday, or else i'd simply wait for a replacement.

thank you again.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostulated*
> 
> thanks for the quick replies, i ordered a rival and will return the savu for a replacement.
> 
> the reason i need to buy a new mouse today is because i have a match on thursday, or else i'd simply wait for a replacement.
> 
> thank you again.


Make sure as soon as you get the Rival you practice a LOT to get used to it, it is quite a departure from the Savu's shape.


----------



## Friday13th

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
I don't really know, any mouse with 2000ish dpi would be fine

3. What's your maximum budget?
up to $60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons would be great

5. What games do you play?
Mostly just League of Legends (MOBA)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not really

7. Other relevant information:
I have a medium-sized hand (palm width 3.4 inches), prefer light mice, preferably small. I have been considering a Deathadder but i thought that it might be too heavy for me. To be honest the Logitch G9X seems perfect but its so damn expensive =(. Also I live in Australia so limited availability might be a problem.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Friday13th*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I don't really know, any mouse with 2000ish dpi would be fine
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> up to $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons would be great
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly just League of Legends (MOBA)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have a medium-sized hand (palm width 3.4 inches), prefer light mice, preferably small. I have been considering a Deathadder but i thought that it might be too heavy for me. To be honest the Logitch G9X seems perfect but its so damn expensive =(. Also I live in Australia so limited availability might be a problem.


I can highly recommend the Roccat Pyra (wired) as a mouse ticking all your boxes. Although it has a maximum DPI of 1600. (This has been sufficient for me for for all games I play, using a little fine tuning in the game mouse settings.)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Friday13th*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I don't really know, any mouse with 2000ish dpi would be fine
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> up to $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons would be great
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly just League of Legends (MOBA)
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have a medium-sized hand (palm width 3.4 inches), prefer light mice, preferably small. I have been considering a Deathadder but i thought that it might be too heavy for me. To be honest the Logitch G9X seems perfect but its so damn expensive =(. Also I live in Australia so limited availability might be a problem.


Zowie FK, Roccat Savu.


----------



## zigziglar

@Friday13th Whereabouts in Australia are you? I have quite a number of mice that are small, light weight and suitable for fingertip grip. Most have 3 buttons though. Honestly, I think if you have the option to literally try your hand at a few mice before buying, you're the most likely to pick a winner.


----------



## Friday13th

@zigziglar I'm in Melbourne. I was really wondering if it's possible to fingertip grip the Deathadder, as I'm very tempted by it.


----------



## RitzyBusiness

*Most important things are mouse size and optical sensor.*
















*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm & Palm Claw Hybrid
*
2. What's your sensitivity?*

Low

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Skys the limit

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

At least 2

*5. What games do you play?*

Slower speed FPS (Battlefield ect ect). Some MMO's that require the extra buttons for comfort, I use all 4 on TERA.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

Yes

*7. Other relevant information:*

-I currently own a Sensei, which is a pretty awesome mouse but looking for something better sensor wise and size wise.

-I have been looking at the Roccat Kone Pure Optical, and want to know of other mice that have that similar size. In short I want a *smaller* mouse to fit my less than average sized hands.

-On sensei I have LOD set to 0%, I really like the feel of low lift off. Smaller optical mice are not going to be super heavy, and the sensei is surely heavier than most of them.

-Accuracy is a big thing for me, the closer 1:1 a mouse is the better off I am. I hate inconsistencies, the sensei has very minimal inconsistencies but it sometimes forces me to make to many aim changes which results in more jittery shooting and sometimes death or not hitting the mark by a micron. Either that or I am constantly adjusting my minute aiming as the mouse is not ending where I expect it to end at. Optical mice just make it easier for me.


----------



## Amperial

Depends, the Kone Pure Optical would have a way higher lift off distance.

If your sens isn't too low i think the Zowie FK might fit your needs. Has kinda all of the things you've mentioned here.

The m45 seems like an alternative aswell.


----------



## RitzyBusiness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> Depends, the Kone Pure Optical would have a way higher lift off distance.
> 
> If your sens isn't too low i think the Zowie FK might fit your needs. Has kinda all of the things you've mentioned here.
> 
> The m45 seems like an alternative aswell.


I am at 400~450 CPI on my Sensei. What is wrong with the Zowie FK at low sensitivity and what is the differences in size between it and the M45?.

The FK looks pretty good~ I mean the shape of it is awesome and the button placements require no adjustment time over the ditching the sensei. My only concern is lack of software~


----------



## AssToast

Need some help finding the right mouse









1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Don't really know and don't REMEMBER if its high or medium but i play with around 1500DPI with around <2 Sensitivity in CS1.6

3. What's your maximum budget?
Around 30$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Having them is okay i guess.

5. What games do you play?
Mainly CS1.6, others mostly FPS and occasional RPG or MMOS

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
Used to have G300 but was uncomfortable for long hours of gaming and was stolen with my laptop

Considering Kinzu V2, CM Storm Xornet or G400s


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RitzyBusiness*
> 
> I am at 400~450 CPI on my Sensei. What is wrong with the Zowie FK at low sensitivity and what is the differences in size between it and the M45?.
> 
> The FK looks pretty good~ I mean the shape of it is awesome and the button placements require no adjustment time over the ditching the sensei. My only concern is lack of software~


The FK has lower malfuntion speed due to having a custom lens. However it reduces the 3090s lift off distance.

Size wise i can't give you accurate info as i don't own them.
(You could check out tech specs and videos however, that's what i recommend.)

It doesn't matter though as they aren't that big to begin with. The only thing that matters is that they fit your grip style and maintain comfy. For that you need to test the mouse yourself.. You don't like it? Send it back and try the other.

Zowie's do not have software, correct. It depends on what you need. Are there special features you want to see?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RitzyBusiness*
> 
> I am at 400~450 CPI on my Sensei. What is wrong with the Zowie FK at low sensitivity and what is the differences in size between it and the M45?.
> 
> The FK looks pretty good~ I mean the shape of it is awesome and the button placements require no adjustment time over the ditching the sensei. My only concern is lack of software~


The FK tops out at about 3.5-4 m/s. I personally use the Mionix Avior 7000, which is a mouse with the 3310 sensor, which the Rival and M45 both also have, but you probably aren't looking for the Rival since it's huge. 3310 mice top out at a ridiculous 5.4 m/s or so which I've personally confirmed with Enotus, and they are exact 1:1 mice. I too had a Sensei thinking I might be able to get used to it for FPS. Nope. I play on 70cm/360 on a massive Puretrak Talent and it works amazingly well. The M45 might be worth a look for you if your sens is like mine.


----------



## Atavax

before the 3310 came out, everyone wasn't hitting the max speeds of their mice. And they aren't magically hitting them now that the 3310 came out.

The max speed of zowie mice is concerning for a tiny fraction of people. most people can't go over 3m/s if they tried. While the lag in 3310 mice effects everyone even if they don't notice it.

as for the zowie's lack of software. Macros are illegal in most competitive leagues, so if you want to aspire to being very good at games, you can't rely on macros. Also, the lack of software should make it compatible with way more computers. Like i don't think any mouse maker that has their own software has it compatible with linux. So want to try a steam machine or steam os? With most mice, you would be out of luck, but not with zowie mice.


----------



## metal571

I could play a pro match with a 3310, no matter how much the whole smoothing debate rages on and people exacerbate the effects. It's very minor if it's there at all, but I cannot play on limiting sensors in terms of PCS. I don't want the limit to be anywhere even near any max speed that I'll reach during play. It depends on the person's sensitivity but the 3310 is a generally safe bet for just about everyone.

Not all is perfect with Zowie mice. Not only is their QC spotty, but their support is awful as well. The scroll wheel is AWFUL on my FK, half of the clicks have a completely different resistance than the other half on the wheel. Mionix is highly responsive and are really perfectionists in their craft, by contrast. It's not like they're immune to QC problems but their support is very helpful. No other manufacturer on the market would release a beta firmware as fast as they did to fix the CPI bug in the Avior, that is downright unheard of. The only thing you could possibly not like about the Avior is the button placement, some people are annnoyed by the other side buttons touching their hand while they play. Non-issue for me with my fingertip grip. The M45 is just very good as well, I need to try that thing already but it's been tough since my ex-gf no longer visits me and helps me try mice at Best Buy, she was my transportation. grr


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> before the 3310 came out, everyone wasn't hitting the max speeds of their mice. And they aren't magically hitting them now that the 3310 came out.
> 
> The max speed of zowie mice is concerning for a tiny fraction of people. most people can't go over 3m/s if they tried. While the lag in 3310 mice effects everyone even if they don't notice it.
> 
> as for the zowie's lack of software. Macros are illegal in most competitive leagues, so if you want to aspire to being very good at games, you can't rely on macros. Also, the lack of software should make it compatible with way more computers. Like i don't think any mouse maker that has their own software has it compatible with linux. So want to try a steam machine or steam os? With most mice, you would be out of luck, but not with zowie mice.


Depends actually it's not the one and only pro of the 3310.

It also maintains a rather low lift up distance without software usage.
With software usage you can adjust LOD as seen on the Avoir to a really low amount & keep the good performance up.

Has native DPI steps up to 5000 DPI by 50. You prolly don't need that much but it makes it versatile.
Now if you mention input lag you can also throw you Zowie mice inthere aswell. There's input lag in Zowies mice.

There are so many flaws around like lift off distance, smoothing, input lag and what not. The 3310 shows the best package in performance out of every sensor we have now.


----------



## zigziglar

I'm trialing the Mico and I cannot notice any input lag. That being said, sometimes what you read in subject reports does not translate into practice. Input lag of 10ms omgomg - seriously, you are not going to notice this AT ALL.

Mico lift off distance is quite high (objectively speaking) and would be a bit of a pain for lower DPI playstyles where you are lifting and repositioning a lot. I haven't noticed the sensor bug in practice yet, so I'm pretty happy so far.

Zowie customer service ... what can I say: unless they have a legal requirement to assist you (ie warranty issue), you are unlikely to receive any response/acknowledgement. It's pretty bad.

Steelseries resolved the sensor bug so long ago, but Zowie have no interest in doing so or even discussing the matter. Fortunately the bug is not as dramatic in practice as it is hyped up to be by die hard reviewers.


----------



## Paradigm84

Hey guys,

Due to the massive amount of help this thread provides, I'm making it [Official].

Keep up the great work.


----------



## mnick

What's your grip style?
Palm/Claw hybrid
What's your sensitivity?
6/11, 1600 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
"Sky's the limit"
Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2
What games do you play?
Dota 2
Do you mind about prediction?
I can say that I liked more my Tesoro Shrike sensor (A9500) than G400.
Other relevant information:
Onboard memory would be cool (or really light software)
I was thinking about DeathAdder 2013, I had deathadder 3G and I loved it's shape, however it has only two extra keys and no onboard memory?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm/Claw hybrid
> What's your sensitivity?
> 6/11, 1600 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> "Sky's the limit"
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I can say that I liked more my Tesoro Shrike sensor (A9500) than G400.
> Other relevant information:
> Onboard memory would be cool (or really light software)
> I was thinking about DeathAdder 2013, I had deathadder 3G and I loved it's shape, however it has only two extra keys and no onboard memory?


mionix avior 7000 has built in memory, a sensor second to none. A hybrid ergonomic design. Great build quality. And should easily be able to support 1600 dpi.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm/Claw hybrid
> What's your sensitivity?
> 6/11, 1600 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> "Sky's the limit"
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I can say that I liked more my Tesoro Shrike sensor (A9500) than G400.
> Other relevant information:
> Onboard memory would be cool (or really light software)
> I was thinking about DeathAdder 2013, I had deathadder 3G and I loved it's shape, however it has only two extra keys and no onboard memory?


What he said above. AVIOR 7000 is awesome if you have no budget constraints. It is well worth the price and should work perfectly for you.


----------



## mnick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> mionix avior 7000 has built in memory, a sensor second to none. A hybrid ergonomic design. Great build quality. And should easily be able to support 1600 dpi.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What he said above. AVIOR 7000 is awesome if you have no budget constraints. It is well worth the price and should work perfectly for you.


That's a great mouse indeed, unfortunately I can't get MIONIX in Poland, and Amazon doesn't ship to my living place, any other suggestions?


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> That's a great mouse indeed, unfortunately I can't get MIONIX in Poland, and Amazon doesn't ship to my living place, any other suggestions?


You sure mate ? Even if you pay for shipping ? I had the impression they just canceled super save delivery feature for most countries, not totally exclude them


----------



## RitzyBusiness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I could play a pro match with a 3310, no matter how much the whole smoothing debate rages on and people exacerbate the effects. It's very minor if it's there at all, but I cannot play on limiting sensors in terms of PCS. I don't want the limit to be anywhere even near any max speed that I'll reach during play. It depends on the person's sensitivity but the 3310 is a generally safe bet for just about everyone.
> 
> Not all is perfect with Zowie mice. Not only is their QC spotty, but their support is awful as well. The scroll wheel is AWFUL on my FK, half of the clicks have a completely different resistance than the other half on the wheel. Mionix is highly responsive and are really perfectionists in their craft, by contrast. It's not like they're immune to QC problems but their support is very helpful. No other manufacturer on the market would release a beta firmware as fast as they did to fix the CPI bug in the Avior, that is downright unheard of. The only thing you could possibly not like about the Avior is the button placement, some people are annnoyed by the other side buttons touching their hand while they play. Non-issue for me with my fingertip grip. The M45 is just very good as well, I need to try that thing already but it's been tough since my ex-gf no longer visits me and helps me try mice at Best Buy, she was my transportation. grr


Never use actual macros, but I do assign keyboard keys to extra mouse buttons often. Primarily handy to add(in my case) 4 additional easy access hotkeys. In some of these games I am using 15-16 buttons at once.

For FPS games I generally don't do any that. They use less keys and can be centralized around WASD much easier.

What bothers me about the Zowie is the sensor for low sensitivity that was alluded to earlier, the M45, and Avior are on my Short list. But There are a ton of size comparisons with the mouse I currently own with the Kone Pure Optical which has me in a bit in a tug of war. None of the listed mice are available in any retail outlets. Well I take that back, while I can't try it instore I could buy some of this from B&H and their return policy is gold.

Regardless I don't play at tournament level (no time, don't want to put in the effort to learn the games that well) but I am sensitive to small things. Which is why I am definitely going back to optical sensor to save my OCD sanity.

@Edited: Strange typo, I meant they are on my short list.


----------



## juanej

is the AVIOR 7000 a good zowie FK replacement? My zowie scroll whell failed after just 8 days of use, but I was starting to really like the mouse


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanej*
> 
> is the AVIOR 7000 a good zowie FK replacement? My zowie scroll whell failed after just 8 days of use, but I was starting to really like the mouse


I LOVE it. Highly recommended, but keep in mind the AVIOR is a little larger, a little heavier, and a slightly different shape with more flared sides. I think it's a better shape though as it makes it very easy to lift by giving you a lot of leverage.


----------



## Playback

What's your grip style?
Fingertip, mostly.
What's your sensitivity?
1000-1500 DPI, usually at 1300.
What's your maximum budget?
Not much of an issue.
Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons - I don't mind more as long as they aren't in the way, but they probably won't be used.
What games do you play?
FPS mostly. I also play RTS and RPG/MMO at times, but it's not as relevant.
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. An "as flawless as possible" sensor would be preferred.
Other relevant information:
Non-glossy. Not too big. Weight adjustment would be nice, but is not a must at all.
Thanks


----------



## faridr

To Steelseries Kana v1 owner, I read that Steelseries has came out with fix for the jitter / pixel skipping / unstable tracking bug. Is it true?

Saw Kana v1 for sale around $30, and was thinking of getting it as I could not get used to Logitech g400s ergonomic design and size, even after using it for nearly a month. I cant even reach the forward side button with my thumb unless I extend my thumb and palm.

I love g100s (lightweight + ambidextrous design), but lost it when moving to new house, and bought g400s instead. Awesome mouse, no problem playing fps games with it @ 400cpi, but kinda makes my arm tired after prolong use due to the weight and design ( yeah I'm weak







).

Kana v2 and Zowie am/fk, is out of question due to pricing in my country, close to $80, which double the price of g400s that I bought for $40. And after conversion to my country currency, $80 is darn too much.

Would get that kana v1 if the bug is fixed, or else would just buy another g100s.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Playback*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip, mostly.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1000-1500 DPI, usually at 1300.
> What's your maximum budget?
> Not much of an issue.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons - I don't mind more as long as they aren't in the way, but they probably won't be used.
> What games do you play?
> FPS mostly. I also play RTS and RPG/MMO at times, but it's not as relevant.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes. An "as flawless as possible" sensor would be preferred.
> Other relevant information:
> Non-glossy. Not too big. Weight adjustment would be nice, but is not a must at all.
> Thanks


Mionix Avior 7000 for sure.


----------



## Windtears

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2.What's your sensitivity?
idk, but i tend to move to mouse over 20-25 cm of my mousepad (i'm using less than 50% of my roccat taito.







)
3. What's your maximum budget?
50 euro
4. Do you want additional buttons?
don't mind
5. What games do you play?
mostly hack & slash, rpg, and some bordelands-like FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
no
7.Other relevant information:
i like my razer abyssus, but i have to replace it 'cause fell too much times for the left click button.









Maybe i just buy another abyssus, but i think i can use something better if i can afford at less than 50 euros.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Windtears*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> idk, but i tend to move to mouse over 20-25 cm of my mousepad (i'm using less than 50% of my roccat taito.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 50 euro
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> don't mind
> 5. What games do you play?
> mostly hack & slash, rpg, and some bordelands-like FPS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> no
> 7.Other relevant information:
> i like my razer abyssus, but i have to replace it 'cause fell too much times for the left click button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe i just buy another abyssus, but i think i can use something better if i can afford at less than 50 euros.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Consider the Logitech G100s.


----------



## SimonKaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Consider the Logitech G100s.


I used to (still do, just never use it







) own a Logitech G1. Epic mouse, lasted me easily 10 years with small adjustments (like in depth cleaning and replacing sliders).

How well does G100s compare to G1? AFAIK It's supposed to be a successor, but how well does it fare at this? Any big issues to look out for?


----------



## Playback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix Avior 7000 for sure.


Hmm, it doesn't quite look like something I'd like to be honest, but who knows, they are only pictures. I currently have a R.A.T. 5, which is perfect for my hand and grip, but it's about to die on me and I want something new. I had a Mionix Naos 3200, but I gave it to a friend because it was too big for my liking (not to mention being 100% palm-based). It's hard to tell from pictures though; is it smaller than the Naos?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SimonKaz*
> 
> I used to (still do, just never use it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) own a Logitech G1. Epic mouse, lasted me easily 10 years with small adjustments (like in depth cleaning and replacing sliders).
> 
> How well does G100s compare to G1? AFAIK It's supposed to be a successor, but how well does it fare at this? Any big issues to look out for?


Basically the best budget mouse of that size available.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Playback*
> 
> Hmm, it doesn't quite look like something I'd like to be honest, but who knows, they are only pictures. I currently have a R.A.T. 5, which is perfect for my hand and grip, but it's about to die on me and I want something new. I had a Mionix Naos 3200, but I gave it to a friend because it was a bit too big for my liking (not to mention being 100% palm-based). It's hard to tell from pictures though; is it smaller than the Naos?


Yeah much smaller. It's around the size of a Sensei. Perfect for my fingertip grip anyway. It's my main mouse so fire away on further questions. Much much better sensor than the one in the RAT too.


----------



## Flikka

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip, hand size 20.5cm

2.What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI maby even lower, no way of checking.

3. What's your maximum budget?
R800 so give or take $80 - $90

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons, DPI buttons would be a bonus but would rarely use them.

5. What games do you play?
Battlefield 4

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, dont want it

7.Other relevant information:
Using a Logitech G5 atm. Please note that I cant get Mionix or any of those brands here so stick suggestions to Corsair, Logitech, Razer and the like. Was looking into the Corsair M45, I keep going back and forth with the SS Rival.

Thanks guys


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flikka*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip, hand size 20.5cm
> 
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> 800 DPI maby even lower, no way of checking.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> R800 so give or take $80 - $90
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons, DPI buttons would be a bonus but would rarely use them.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Battlefield 4
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, dont want it
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> Using a Logitech G5 atm. Please note that I cant get Mionix or any of those brands here so stick suggestions to Corsair, Logitech, Razer and the like. Was looking into the Corsair M45, I keep going back and forth with the SS Rival.
> 
> Thanks guys


M45 is definitely better. Check it out.


----------



## PurpleFurple

What's your grip style? palm grip
What's your sensitivity? around 1200 (max 2000)
What's your maximum budget? about 100$
Do you want additional buttons? i would LOVE to have 3 thumb buttons that are not awkardly placed.
What games do you play? I play league of legends (mostly) and some fps games like cod and bf
Do you mind about prediction? i dont know what you mean with prediction.......
Other relevant information:i have medium sized hands i dont live in america (europe). i would like to have a rubberized finish. low click distance. maybe an avago a3090 sensor. braided cord is always nice. basically i would love to have the zowie ec evo but than with 3 thumb buttons
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## Krucid

1. What's your grip style? *Fingertip/Palm Hybrid*

2. What's your sensitivity? *1800 DPI*

3. What's your maximum budget? *$100.00*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *Thumb Buttons are a must*.

5. What games do you play? *FPS*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *Absolutely no prediction.*

7. Other relevant information: *Recently picked up a G400s. However, the right side of the mouse is irritating my pinky around the knuckle. Has an odd shape on the right side of the mouse.*

8. Input anything else you want. *Good software is a plus. I hate Razer products.

I want a good optical sensor and something comfortable.

I have large hands, 8 and 1/4 inches from bottom of palm to tip of middle finger.

I tired a M45 and didn't like it because the back didn't come all the way down and was uncomfortable on my palm.
*


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? *Fingertip/Palm Hybrid*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? *1800 DPI*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? *$100.00*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? *Thumb Buttons are a must*.
> 
> 5. What games do you play? *FPS*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? *Absolutely no prediction.*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: *Recently picked up a G400s. However, the right side of the mouse is irritating my pinky around the knuckle. Has an odd shape on the right side of the mouse.*
> 
> 8. Input anything else you want. *Good software is a plus. I hate Razer products.
> 
> I want a good optical sensor and something comfortable.
> 
> I have large hands, 8 and 1/4 inches from bottom of palm to tip of middle finger.
> 
> I tired a M45 and didn't like it because the back didn't come all the way down and was uncomfortable on my palm.
> *


Tried the M45, that leaves us with the Rival and the Naos/Avior, and the Rival is subpar. Take a look at the Naos and Avior 7000. Avior 7000 is a great mouse for FPS, I use it myself. It handles literally everything and I find it very comfortable with my fingertip grip. Very easy to lift. I too always hated that crap right side on the G400/G500 shape. Awful design. At least they fixed it with the G502, but that mouse is way too heavy for fast FPS use.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Tried the M45, that leaves us with the Rival and the Naos/Avior, and the Rival is subpar. Take a look at the Naos and Avior 7000. Avior 7000 is a great mouse for FPS, I use it myself. It handles literally everything and I find it very comfortable with my fingertip grip. Very easy to lift. I too always hated that crap right side on the G400/G500 shape. Awful design. At least they fixed it with the G502, but that mouse is way too heavy for fast FPS use.


I'm curious though, on the avior 7000. Do the two thumbs buttons on the right side get irritating or in the way of grip?

Never used a mouse with thumbs buttons on both sides.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> I'm curious though, on the avior 7000. Do the two thumbs buttons on the right side get irritating or in the way of grip?
> 
> Never used a mouse with thumbs buttons on both sides.


Depends on your grip. They do stick out though, a lot moreso than say a Sensei. For palm users they might, but for me as a fingertip gamer they don't bother me at all.


----------



## Krucid

Alright, thanks, just ordered one. Will see how it goes.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> Alright, thanks, just ordered one. Will see how it goes.


Just double checking, was that Amazon? They have some very easy returns.


----------



## Krucid

Yes, I ordered it from Amazon. Usually the only place i order. That way if i don't like it, i can send it back easily.


----------



## lb_felipe

Is there any mouse whose color is white that uses ADNS-3310?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Is there any mouse whose color is white that uses ADNS-3310?


Not at this time.


----------



## Windtears

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Consider the Logitech G100s.


thanks..









What do you think of the Steelseries Kinzu v2 (rubberized or not), corsair m30-m40? They are on the same price zone on amazon.







As i say, i don't mind of additional buttons: i just want a simple, comfortable but very durable mouse 'cause i like long sessions of hack&slash. (yey!)

What do you think of the Steelseries Diablo 3? It's just 35 euro on amazon.









Sorry to bother you.


----------



## mnick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm/Claw hybrid
> What's your sensitivity?
> 6/11, 1600 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> "Sky's the limit"
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I can say that I liked more my Tesoro Shrike sensor (A9500) than G400.
> Other relevant information:
> Onboard memory would be cool (or really light software)
> I was thinking about DeathAdder 2013, I had deathadder 3G and I loved it's shape, however it has only two extra keys and no onboard memory?


I still haven't decided yet, I'd go for Mionix, but I heard it has some latency issuess? I am using 120HZ(strobbed) monitor, I have even disabled VSync in Win 8.1, so yeah I care about input latency. What do you guys mean by saying it has 6500fps? Does this mean that the sensor gives 6500 discrete sets of data which then are passed by ARM Chip to my PC at rate of 1000Hz? Once again, I loved my Deathadder 3G (besides it's build quality, lol).


----------



## Playback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah much smaller. It's around the size of a Sensei. Perfect for my fingertip grip anyway. It's my main mouse so fire away on further questions. Much much better sensor than the one in the RAT too.


Are there any other relevant mice? I'm looking around myself, but other peoples experiences and preferences say much more than google searches. I will consider the Avior though. Thanks for your help by the way, much appreciated.

I'm looking at the G9X as well, but it supposedly has some acceleration issues. Is it severe? Does it have any other flaws?

The CM Storm Spawn would also be an alternative for me, but it's not available here anymore for some reason.

4Th edit: The Cyborg R.A.T 3 V2/Refresh apparently has the Avago ADNS-3090 sensor, which supposedly is pretty good. Maybe that's an alternative.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Windtears*
> 
> thanks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think of the Steelseries Kinzu v2 (rubberized or not), corsair m30-m40? They are on the same price zone on amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As i say, i don't mind of additional buttons: i just want a simple, comfortable but very durable mouse 'cause i like long sessions of hack&slash. (yey!)
> 
> What do you think of the Steelseries Diablo 3? It's just 35 euro on amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to bother you.


Kinzu V2, no. Look at the M45 actually not the M40 if you are looking at that corsair shape. Don't get the Diablo 3, that's got a laser sensor and has some acceleration. That's just a Sensei raw.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Playback*
> 
> Are there any other relevant mice? I'm looking around myself, but other peoples experiences and preferences say much more than google searches. I will consider the Avior though. Thanks for your help by the way, much appreciated.
> 
> I'm looking at the G9X as well, but it supposedly has some acceleration issues. Is it severe? Does it have any other flaws?
> 
> The CM Storm Spawn would also be an alternative for me, but it's not available here anymore for some reason.
> 
> 4Th edit: The Cyborg R.A.T 3 V2/Refresh apparently has the Avago ADNS-3090 sensor, which supposedly is pretty good. Maybe that's an alternative.


G9X has a flawed accelerating sensor yes. It's also not in production anymore and hasn't been in some time. The RATs are notoriously unreliable mice and they're also heavy, I would stay away from them.


----------



## Windtears

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Kinzu V2, no. Look at the M45 actually not the M40 if you are looking at that corsair shape. Don't get the Diablo 3, that's got a laser sensor and has some acceleration. That's just a Sensei raw.


Thanks for the patience.







the m45 is a little over the budget (60 euro for now in my country), i guess i'll stick with the g100s or the abyssus.


----------



## PurpleFurple

What's your grip style? Palm Grip
What's your sensitivity? around 2000
What's your maximum budget? 120$
Do you want additional buttons? i would love 3 thumb buttons
What games do you play? league of legends, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Tera
Do you mind about prediction? i dont know what prediction is..
Other relevant information: I live in europe, i have medium sized hands, i would like low click distance, braided cable is always nice, i want the best performance i can get, i basically want the zowie ec evo but than with 3 side buttons, or something like the mionix naos. these are some mice i considered; zowie ec evo, Mionix naos, Cm storm reaper, redragon permittion, Perixx mx200II


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Windtears*
> 
> Thanks for the patience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the m45 is a little over the budget (60 euro for now in my country), i guess i'll stick with the g100s or the abyssus.


The M40 has a better sensor than either of those. Might want to do some research on it.


----------



## sjgr

Hey Folks i'm looking for a new Mouse to replace my mx518 refresh

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1800dpi on mx518

3. What's your maximum budget?
50€ / 70$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2

5. What games do you play?
Mainly FPS games, but also MMO now and then

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
- I'm looking for a Mouse with good build Quality which should last me some Time.

- Pretty unsure about the shape, so i think i just will Order and return if i don't like it.

- I Thought about the Kana V2 since it looks like a nice bang for the buck, but i read that SS is like another Razer, not this good in Quality. Whats your Opinion?
Also i read that the Savu has bugs?
Shape of the M45 Looks a bit strange, so i'm pretty unsure.

Or any other i did not mention?

Any ideas cause i'm quite clueless. i would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjgr*
> 
> Hey Folks i'm looking for a new Mouse to replace my mx518 refresh
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1800dpi on mx518
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 50€ / 70$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mainly FPS games, but also MMO now and then
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> - I'm looking for a Mouse with good build Quality which should last me some Time.
> 
> - Pretty unsure about the shape, so i think i just will Order and return if i don't like it.
> 
> - I Thought about the Kana V2 since it looks like a nice bang for the buck, but i read that SS is like another Razer, not this good in Quality. Whats your Opinion?
> Also i read that the Savu has bugs?
> Shape of the M45 Looks a bit strange, so i'm pretty unsure.
> 
> Or any other i did not mention?
> 
> Any ideas cause i'm quite clueless. i would really appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


lol...Mionix Avior 7000. You might actually want to take a look at the new G502 from Logitech as well. There's a big thread on here about it now. I would give the M45 a shot, it's a great value.


----------



## sjgr

I know the Mionix and it really looks great but i would need to buy it at there online Store and there is the Price at 80€ which is a bit too much for me.
The G502 is also pretty expensive (preorder at 75€) and there are not enough informations about it out yet, i.e. prediction.
Looks like i really should try die M45.
No thoughts about the Kana V2?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjgr*
> 
> I know the Mionix and it really looks great but i would need to buy it at there online Store and there is the Price at 80€ which is a bit too much for me.
> The G502 is also pretty expensive (preorder at 75€) and there are not enough informations about it out yet, i.e. prediction.
> Looks like i really should try die M45.
> No thoughts about the Kana V2?


High LOD on the Kana V2, and an older sensor. Only one side button on either side too.


----------



## sjgr

Thanks a lot so far but on last thing. LOD is something i do not care about because i never lift my mouse, older Sensor is one thing i maybe could deal with, so in all honesty do you think that the M45 is worth an 20$ extra over the Kana V2?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjgr*
> 
> Thanks a lot so far but on last thing. LOD is something i do not care about because i never lift my mouse, older Sensor is one thing i maybe could deal with, so in all honesty do you think that the M45 is worth an 20$ extra over the Kana V2?


If the shape and weight fits you, definitely.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> I still haven't decided yet, I'd go for Mionix, but I heard it has some latency issuess? I am using 120HZ(strobbed) monitor, I have even disabled VSync in Win 8.1, so yeah I care about input latency. What do you guys mean by saying it has 6500fps? Does this mean that the sensor gives 6500 discrete sets of data which then are passed by ARM Chip to my PC at rate of 1000Hz? Once again, I loved my Deathadder 3G (besides it's build quality, lol).


The sensor can capture 6,500 frames per second, and, then, those would be translated into the mouse's calculated movement and, then, grouped into 1,000 USB packets per second if using the 1,000Hz setting.


----------



## saphireangel

Ahoy. I'm looking for a new mouse that is good for small hands (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm). I'm not a hardcore gamer but I do play one MMORPG frequently. So I'm looking for comfort and something that will fit my small hands without overstretching. I suffer from arthritis, which can trigger if my hands are overstretched. I don't need too many buttons on my mouse, but I do need the scroll function, as I also read a lot. Ideally it'll be nice if the mouse has nice smooth lines as well, because weird angles do not help improve my arthritis condition. Is there anyone who can help advice me?

It's extremely frustrating this business of looking for a mouse, as it's usually almost impossible to "test drive" a mouse before purchase. The mouse I've been using are Microsoft Optical Notebook Wireless Mouse 3000 (at home) and Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 4000 (for work) and both are the perfect size for me. But my home mouse's scroll is broken so I'm looking for a suitable replacement.

Sorry for the bother, but I would most appreciate some help and advice!

In Summary, if TL;DR :
What's your grip style? Palm grip
What's your sensitivity? Unsure what this means
What's your maximum budget? £60
Do you want additional buttons? Not fussed about this
What games do you play? Puzzle Pirates
Do you mind about prediction? Probably not?
Other relevant information:
I have extremely small hands and suffer from occassional arthitis particularly if my hands are constantly overstretched! (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm)


----------



## AsfHayabusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> In Summary, if TL;DR :
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Unsure what this means
> What's your maximum budget? £60
> Do you want additional buttons? Not fussed about this
> What games do you play? Puzzle Pirates
> Do you mind about prediction? Probably not?
> Other relevant information:
> I have extremely small hands and suffer from occassional arthitis particularly if my hands are constantly overstretched! (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm)


The first mouse in my head after read some of your words is SS Kinzu. However I would offer you some options:

SS Kinzu v2 - not Pro edition because of not good scroll and hard buttons
Roccat Kova
Zowie EC2
Zowie FK
Razer Abyssus (... not really a good recommendation)
Razer Taipan


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> In Summary, if TL;DR :
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Unsure what this means
> What's your maximum budget? £60
> Do you want additional buttons? Not fussed about this
> What games do you play? Puzzle Pirates
> Do you mind about prediction? Probably not?
> Other relevant information:
> I have extremely small hands and suffer from occassional arthitis particularly if my hands are constantly overstretched! (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm)


I know part of the problem, my hand is 18cm long with an 8cm middle finger. Unfortunately for us, most smaller mice are designed for people with larger hands to use with claw or fingertip grip. I recommend you try the Roccat Kone Pure Optical. Alternatively you could look at the Roccat Savu or the Zowie EC2 eVo, but I really think the Kone Pure is your best bet.


----------



## saphireangel

Thanks for the responses AsfHayabusa and janaso
Quote:


> The first mouse in my head after read some of your words is SS Kinzu. However I would offer you some options:
> 
> SS Kinzu v2 - not Pro edition because of not good scroll and hard buttons
> Roccat Kova
> Zowie EC2
> Zowie FK
> Razer Abyssus (... not really a good recommendation)
> Razer Taipan


All the mouses are so big. I find my current Microsoft Wireless mouse with the dimensions 102 x 61 x 40mm very comfortable and the perfect size for my extremely fussy small hands. I would use my Microsoft mouse if the scroll worked for one of the puzzles in Puzzle Pirates, but as it is, it doesn't.









The mouses both of you recommended have at least 120mm in length as a minimum except the SS Kinzu v2 which is 117mm in length. I'm just worried I might not like or be able to adjust to the size.

Is there any reason why Razer Abyssus is not a good recommendation?

Does anyone have the exact dimensions for the Roccat Savu? Some reviews say it's even smaller than the Roccat Kone Pure, but checking its technical specs on the Roccat website, both mice are the same dimensions.


----------



## AsfHayabusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Is there any reason why Razer Abyssus is not a good recommendation?


because it's not good =DDD you can find many thread complaint about this product by Google
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Does anyone have the *exact dimensions for the Roccat Savu*? Some reviews say it's even smaller than the Roccat Kone Pure, but checking its technical specs on the Roccat website, both mice are the same dimensions.


120x72x39, 90g

find more here


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AsfHayabusa*
> 
> because it's not good =DDD you can find many thread complaint about this product by Google
> 120x72x39, 90g
> 
> find more here


Such a useful image. I own and have thoroughly piloted all the small* mice on there and can help anyone in the market for one.

*By small I mean starting below the 107mm length. I haven't tried the CS storm or G9x.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

What's your grip style? Mix between finger tip and palm.
What's your sensitivity? medium, about 2" per 90 degrees of rotation.
What's your maximum budget? N/A
Do you want additional buttons? I need at least 2 side buttons for my thumb.
What games do you play? Mostly FPS.
Do you mind about prediction? I do not like prediction.
Other relevant information:
I cannot find a mouse big enough for me. Currently I'm using a G400, but I need something about 30-50% larger. I can't properly track while clicking because I can't hold it right, my hand starts to cramp up. I don't necessarily have huge hands, I just prefer having a larger grip.

So far this is the only mouse that fits the size, but it lacks side buttons and DPI adjustment: https://usb.brando.com/usb-giant-mouse_p03429c037d015.html

No I'm not joking, I'm seriously looking for a mouse that is about that size. I was thinking about buying that mouse and swapping the internals.


----------



## metal571

There's almost nothing larger than the Mionix Naos 7000.


----------



## saphireangel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Such a useful image. I own and have thoroughly piloted all the small* mice on there and can help anyone in the market for one.
> 
> *By small I mean starting below the 107mm length. I haven't tried the CS storm or G9x.


Zigziglar, so what's a good (small) mouse to recommend for me?


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Zigziglar, so what's a good (small) mouse to recommend for me?


What are you after in a mouse? Small mice are generally pretty similar to one another spec wise; the biggest differences are little things like shape, button switches etc


----------



## saphireangel

Um.... this?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Ahoy. I'm looking for a new mouse that is good for small hands (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm). I'm not a hardcore gamer but I do play one MMORPG frequently. So I'm looking for comfort and something that will fit my small hands without overstretching. I suffer from arthritis, which can trigger if my hands are overstretched. I don't need too many buttons on my mouse, but I do need the scroll function, as I also read a lot. Ideally it'll be nice if the mouse has nice smooth lines as well, because weird angles do not help improve my arthritis condition. Is there anyone who can help advice me?
> 
> It's extremely frustrating this business of looking for a mouse, as it's usually almost impossible to "test drive" a mouse before purchase. The mouse I've been using are Microsoft Optical Notebook Wireless Mouse 3000 (at home) and Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 4000 (for work) and both are the perfect size for me. But my home mouse's scroll is broken so I'm looking for a suitable replacement.
> 
> Sorry for the bother, but I would most appreciate some help and advice!
> 
> In Summary, if TL;DR :
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Unsure what this means
> What's your maximum budget? £60
> Do you want additional buttons? Not fussed about this
> What games do you play? Puzzle Pirates
> Do you mind about prediction? Probably not?
> Other relevant information:
> I have extremely small hands and suffer from occassional arthitis particularly if my hands are constantly overstretched! (the distance from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger itself is about 17cm, and my middle finger is about 7cm)


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Um.... this?


Sorry dude, didn't notice that post. As far as palm grip goes, the mice below 100mm might actually be too small and cause cramping from the opposite issue to what you've encountered so far.

Have you ever tried a logitech mini optical? It is 104cm and is an ambidextrous shape. It might not suit MMORPG genres with only two buttons and a scroll wheel (although you did say you're not fussed), but I think you will find the size is suitable. If you have access to a Mini, you can test it's shape and if it's good, there is a mouse that is pretty much the same shape but with good buttons and modern gaming sensor called the "Commatech M1" or "fkmini". Unfortunately, you'd have to buy it from one of those Chinese equivalents to eBay, as it's not really distributed outside of Asia.

My hands are smaller than yours (believe it or not). Yours are about the size of my brothers and he has tested all my mice and finds them a bit small for claw grip, with the exception of the Mico, which he finds comfortable with claw grip. Palm grip wise, nothing below 104 would ever feel good for those sized hands.


----------



## saphireangel

Quote:


> Sorry dude, didn't notice that post. As far as palm grip goes, the mice below 100mm might actually be too small and cause cramping from the opposite issue to what you've encountered so far.
> 
> Have you ever tried a logitech mini optical? It is 104cm and is an ambidextrous shape. It might not suit MMORPG genres with only two buttons and a scroll wheel (although you did say you're not fussed), but I think you will find the size is suitable. If you have access to a Mini, you can test it's shape and if it's good, there is a mouse that is pretty much the same shape but with good buttons and sensor called "Commatech M1" or "fkmini".
> 
> My hands are smaller than yours (believe it or not). Yours are about the size of my brothers and he has tested all my mice and finds them a bit small for claw grip, with the exception of the Mico, which he finds comfortable with claw grip. Palm grip wise, nothing below 104 would ever feel good for those sized hands.


Hmm, both my current mice are about 100mm. And I actually feel quite comfortable with the size.
But to answer your question, I have never tried the logitech before. And I don't have access to different mice sadly. Which is why I find it really frustrating trying to look for a mouse to purchase, because of the size of my hands. I wish I could test drive a mouse before purchasing it....


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Hmm, both my current mice are about 100mm. And I actually feel quite comfortable with the size.
> But to answer your question, I have never tried the logitech before. And I don't have access to different mice sadly. Which is why I find it really frustrating trying to look for a mouse to purchase, because of the size of my hands. I wish I could test drive a mouse before purchasing it....


I was in the same boat and it took around 5 mice to get one I'm comfortable with.

The Zowie Mico is 98mm, ambidextrous 3 button. If you find 100mm perfect, then it's the closest match you'll find in gaming mice. The Commatech M1 is a similar shape, but a little bit more of a low rider, which could potentially counteract the extra length. If I were you, I'd be trying the Mico first (as it's more readily available) and the M1 if you find the Mico a tad too small.


----------



## xNutella

I was wondering what if my G9x died!. what mouse that looks SO similar to the G9x shape (claw grip of course).


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNutella*
> 
> I was wondering what if my G9x died!. what mouse that looks SO similar to the G9x shape (claw grip of course).


Corsair M45 is by far the closest thing there is to a G9X successor. The base of the mouse is a little different but other than that it's almost a clone.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

K, I didn't get much help before...actually, no help...so on my own I've decided between the Mionix Naos 7000 and the Logitech G502 Proteus Core after using a Logitech G5 for 5+ years. Recently got a Storm Spawn to hold me over, and could never get used to it, and still prefer to use my failing G5. Spawn felt fine for short periods, but the buttons LMB/Mouse Wheel/Right Mouse button where too close/small for my clunky fingers. Got it on sale, and I know it's a claw grip mouse. True grip is fingertip/palm grip hybrid, and I play a bit of everything. I want another mouse I can enjoy for another 5+ years. I have mechanic hands...sausage fingers and giant palms...the G5 accommodated my digits nicely lol No price limit...

Edit - also, aesthetics? Hugely important...since it will be sitting on my desk for the next 5 years. Which means I happened to take some interest in that ASUS ROG GX1000, though that is strictly because of aesthetics. Also, I know I am in the minority, but I like a heavy mouse, if only for the reason that it gives a false sense of quality, who knows. But I've always preferred a larger, heavier mouse, for whatever reason. I would love to see the ASUS on my desk, but have no idea what the mouse itself is like.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> Does anyone have the exact dimensions for the Roccat Savu? Some reviews say it's even smaller than the Roccat Kone Pure, but checking its technical specs on the Roccat website, both mice are the same dimensions.


They _are_ the same dimensions. However, the Savu is designed primarily for claw grip users with medium sized hands, while the Kone Pure is designed primarily for palm grip users with small hands.


----------



## lombardsoup

Haven't bought a mouse in years don't know what the heck I'm doin

What's your grip style? Palm/claw hybrid
What's your sensitivity? Currently 4000 DPI, I do not like large swipes of the mouse
What's your maximum budget? $200 (cheap but its what I've got)
Do you want additional buttons? No.
What games do you play? FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Doesn't bother me
Other relevant information: Need a mousepad/surface recommendation to go along with whatever mouse you guys recommend.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lombardsoup*
> 
> Haven't bought a mouse in years don't know what the heck I'm doin
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm/claw hybrid
> What's your sensitivity? Currently 4000 DPI, I do not like large swipes of the mouse
> What's your maximum budget? $200 (cheap but its what I've got)
> Do you want additional buttons? No.
> What games do you play? FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? Doesn't bother me
> Other relevant information: Need a mousepad/surface recommendation to go along with whatever mouse you guys recommend.


Corsair M45, Mionix Avior 7000.

I use a Puretrak Talent, awesome pad for FPS.

I actually have a first gen Lachesis myself just to have a PTE mouse lying around. Hate that shape though but I know what kind of grip you're looking for. Both mice I mentioned here are quite suitable for clawing.


----------



## Trel

I currently use this mouse
Mouse: http://steelseries.com/products/games/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-mmo-gaming-mouse

*What's your grip style?*
--Hybrid/changing
*What's your sensitivity?*
--Adjustable would be good, though similar to the current one works
*What's your maximum budget?*
--Doesn't matter at the moment
*Do you want additional buttons?*
--Yes, mandatory
*What games do you play?*
--FPS and MMO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
--I'm not sure what this is
*Other relevant information:*
My only massive requirement is the scroll wheel must NOT be smooth, nor togglable. If it's not one of the kind that click (with no option to change) then I can't do it.

A lot of buttons like my current, preferably with at least one on the right, would be preferable

I prefer wired rather than wireless, though if there's a wireless that doesn't have any noticable issues, I'm open to that if it meets everything else.

I'm open to any brands, but one problem I did have with the software for this particular one is that when assigning a keybind to a button, it was unable to simulate holding the key in, it would only register a click, so I'd prefer if that was not the case with any suggestions.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trel*
> 
> I currently use this mouse
> Mouse: http://steelseries.com/products/games/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-mmo-gaming-mouse
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> --Hybrid/changing
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> --Adjustable would be good, though similar to the current one works
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> --Doesn't matter at the moment
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> --Yes, mandatory
> *What games do you play?*
> --FPS and MMO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> --I'm not sure what this is
> *Other relevant information:*
> My only massive requirement is the scroll wheel must NOT be smooth, nor togglable. If it's not one of the kind that click (with no option to change) then I can't do it.
> 
> A lot of buttons like my current, preferably with at least one on the right, would be preferable
> 
> I prefer wired rather than wireless, though if there's a wireless that doesn't have any noticable issues, I'm open to that if it meets everything else.
> 
> I'm open to any brands, but one problem I did have with the software for this particular one is that when assigning a keybind to a button, it was unable to simulate holding the key in, it would only register a click, so I'd prefer if that was not the case with any suggestions.


Logitech G602 comes to mind. It should work for both MMO and FPS overall pretty well and has the extra buttons you're looking for. It's wireless but is really the only good wireless mouse since it is the only wireless mouse with an optical sensor.


----------



## Trel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Logitech G602 comes to mind. It should work for both MMO and FPS overall pretty well and has the extra buttons you're looking for. It's wireless but is really the only good wireless mouse since it is the only wireless mouse with an optical sensor.


Do you know about the scroll wheel? The only thing that's really turned me off of Logitech mice is that they tend to have that togglable smooth scroll option.


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trel*
> 
> Do you know about the scroll wheel? The only thing that's really turned me off of Logitech mice is that they tend to have that togglable smooth scroll option.


It doesn't toggle and the wheel isn't notched. I wouldn't say it rolls "smoothly" but it's a lot smoother than most mice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trel*
> 
> Do you know about the scroll wheel? The only thing that's really turned me off of Logitech mice is that they tend to have that togglable smooth scroll option.


Not this one. I don't see how a toggleable scroll wheel is a problem considering you can just use the wheel without it being smooth in a locked state...that said the G602 doesn't have that AFAIK.


----------



## Trel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not this one. I don't see how a toggleable scroll wheel is a problem considering you can just use the wheel without it being smooth in a locked state...that said the G602 doesn't have that AFAIK.


Does it have discrete 'clicks' as you scroll?

And for the record, the toggleable ones even when smooth scroll is off, never feel right compared to ones that do not smooth scroll at all.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trel*
> 
> Does it have discrete 'clicks' as you scroll?
> 
> And for the record, the toggleable ones even when smooth scroll is off, never feel right compared to ones that do not smooth scroll at all.


I don't own it but the wheel looks similar to the one on the G400, so it would probably be a smoother wheel but more resistance than the toggleable ones.

My Avior 7000 has great mousewheel feedback. Much moreso than the Logitech mice. It doesn't have more than two buttons on each side though.


----------



## Malvolg

The g502 does have a toggle free scroll option. When it's not in free mode the wheel is a little looser than your normal wheel, but not nearly as bad as say the g500s. The wheel on that mouse was horrible.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> The g502 does have a toggle free scroll option. When it's not in free mode the wheel is a little looser than your normal wheel, but not nearly as bad as say the g500s. The wheel on that mouse was horrible.


That's why I said G602, not G502.


----------



## Gero2013

What's your grip style? *Palm*

What's your sensitivity? *1600, or 800-2500, never above*

What's your maximum budget? *$80*

Do you want additional buttons? *Just two on the left side for the thumb*

What games do you play? *BF4, CS*

Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*

Other relevant information:

I want a mouse for FPS with the best tracking / accuracy possible to top my DA 2013. Ideally with no angle spanning, little jitter and little prediciont and smoothing.

Preferably of similar size as DA as I have big hands (not gigantic, just above average big)

I am looked at the Zowie EC1 evo CL .... but will it flake?

Someone mentioned the Avago 3310 sensor, so Mionix 7000. But high DPI = bad afaik. Or is this an exception?

Thanks guys!


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's why I said G602, not G502.


Yeah... totally misread that, heh. My bad.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> 
> What's your sensitivity? *1600, or 800-2500, never above*
> 
> What's your maximum budget? *$80*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? *Just two on the left side for the thumb*
> 
> What games do you play? *BF4, CS*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I want a mouse for FPS with the best tracking / accuracy possible to top my DA 2013. Ideally with no angle spanning, little jitter and little prediciont and smoothing.
> 
> Preferably of similar size as DA as I have big hands (not gigantic, just above average big)
> 
> I am looked at the Zowie EC1 evo CL .... but will it flake?
> 
> Someone mentioned the Avago 3310 sensor, so Mionix 7000. But high DPI = bad afaik. Or is this an exception?
> 
> Thanks guys!


That is not the case at all with the Avior. The Avior 7000 uses the 3310 sensor, which has native CPIs of 50-5000 in increments of 50. EVERY SINGLE STEP IS NATIVE WITHIN THIS RANGE. This sensor has less smoothing than the DA 2013's sensor, and tracks up to 215 IPS (~5.4 m/s). It is basically the best overall sensor available right now unless you want to step up to the G502, which has a NATIVE 12000 CPI optical with zero smoothing and 7.62 m/s max PCS (300 IPS). That sensor is rumored to be Logitech-exclusive and is called the PMW3366.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That is not the case at all with the Avior. The Avior 7000 uses the 3310 sensor, which has native CPIs of 50-5000 in increments of 50. EVERY SINGLE STEP IS NATIVE WITHIN THIS RANGE. This sensor has less smoothing than the DA 2013's sensor, and tracks up to 215 IPS (~5.4 m/s). It is basically the best overall sensor available right now unless you want to step up to the G502, which has a NATIVE 12000 CPI optical with zero smoothing and 7.62 m/s max PCS (300 IPS). That sensor is rumored to be Logitech-exclusive and is called the PMW3366.


oh nice thank you, ok so PMW3366 > 3310? or rather PMW3366 best sensor / G502 best mouse on the market?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> oh nice thank you, ok so PMW3366 > 3310? or rather PMW3366 best sensor / G502 best mouse on the market?


The G502 is NOT the best mouse on the market. Only the sensor is the best on the market. Whether its shape and also unwieldy heavier weight will appeal to you is personal.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G502 is NOT the best mouse on the market. Only the sensor is the best on the market. Whether its shape and also unwieldy heavier weight will appeal to you is personal.


ok thanks, my question was referring to the sensor, I know the mouseshape is individual









how do you think the mouseshape will be coming from a DA2013?


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> They _are_ the same dimensions. However, the Savu is designed primarily for claw grip users with medium sized hands, while the Kone Pure is designed primarily for palm grip users with small hands.


Based on your earlier comments, if you want to try a Roccat, you should try the Pyra. While a little shorter than the 100mm you're used to, it is quite tall and its bulkier shape could make up for the difference in length.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> ok thanks, my question was referring to the sensor, I know the mouseshape is individual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think the mouseshape will be coming from a DA2013?


I would pose this question to the G502 thread. I don't own one yet but quite a few people on this forum do.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Based on your earlier comments, if you want to try a Roccat, you should try the Pyra. While a little shorter than the 100mm you're used to, it is quite tall and its bulkier shape could make up for the difference in length.


The Pyra is a mouse for fingertip grip users, but the person who asked uses palm grip, which means that the dimensions at the base of the mouse are inconsequential.


----------



## nged72

Random question.

How do you test if your mouse is working correctly, like how people do it on Paint?

When I draw circles on paint they look stuttery.

This is the Roccat Pure Optical using a Razer Goliathus Control MP



The really bad lines are from Mouse Acceleration ON


----------



## metal571

This effect is known as jitter. Turn mouse acceleration off and test it again.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> This effect is known as jitter. Turn mouse acceleration off and test it again.


That was with it OFF except for the really horrible ones

Here it is again with it OFF and windows precision OFF

Is this normal or could it be my mousepad or should I exchange my mouse? It is new from Newegg about last Friday

3200DPI - 1000hz



800DPI - 1000hz


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> The Pyra is a mouse for fingertip grip users, but the person who asked uses palm grip, which means that the dimensions at the base of the mouse are inconsequential.


I realise Prya is designed for fingertip use, but if you have small hands it actually fits quite nicely into palm. In any case that was an old comment. My final recommendation was to try the Mico first then the Commatech M1, based on the fact that he palms 100mm length mice presently.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> That was with it OFF except for the really horrible ones
> 
> Here it is again with it OFF and windows precision OFF
> 
> Is this normal or could it be my mousepad or should I exchange my mouse? It is new from Newegg about last Friday
> 
> 3200DPI - 1000hz
> 
> 
> 
> 800DPI - 1000hz


Oh I know what's wrong. You need to set your Windows slider to 6/11. The middle notch. You're skipping pixels because of this.


----------



## treav0r

OK, it might be time for a new mouse again for me, so maybe you guys could help me:

what i currently have: DA2013 on a goliathus speed.
so far so good.

to give you some info here are some opinions on mice i had/have.

Deathadder 2013: ok-good shape, good tracking, pretty light, a little to wide and "flared" for my taste...

Zowie FK: ok-good shape, good tracking, very light, too small for my hands, hard clicks....

Steelseries Sensei RAW: very good shape, bad tracking, nice and light... maybe im keeping it? who knows...

Logitech G400: horrible shape (for 2 fingers on top and clawgrip), good tracking, light, cheap build feeling....

---

Weight should be under 110 gramms though and the shape should be good for clawgrip..

what i thought about:
Zowie EC2 eVo CL
Mionix Avior 7000
Mionix Naos 7000
Steelseries Sensei RAW (keeping mine, not sure how well it would track if i would buy an 9hd for it...)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> OK, it might be time for a new mouse again for me, so maybe you guys could help me:
> 
> what i currently have: DA2013 on a goliathus speed.
> so far so good.
> 
> to give you some info here are some opinions on mice i had/have.
> 
> Deathadder 2013: ok-good shape, good tracking, pretty light, a little to wide and "flared" for my taste...
> 
> Zowie FK: ok-good shape, good tracking, very light, too small for my hands, hard clicks....
> 
> Steelseries Sensei RAW: very good shape, bad tracking, nice and light... maybe im keeping it? who knows...
> 
> Logitech G400: horrible shape (for 2 fingers on top and clawgrip), good tracking, light, cheap build feeling....
> 
> ---
> 
> Weight should be under 110 gramms though and the shape should be good for clawgrip..
> 
> what i thought about:
> Zowie EC2 eVo CL
> Mionix Avior 7000
> Mionix Naos 7000
> Steelseries Sensei RAW (keeping mine, not sure how well it would track if i would buy an 9hd for it...)


The Avior sounds perfect for you if you like the Sensei shape but want something with an actually usable sensor.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh I know what's wrong. You need to set your Windows slider to 6/11. The middle notch. You're skipping pixels because of this.


Here it is with 6 on the windows slider and 4000dpi @ 1000hz

Better Link for Larger Size:


http://imgur.com/WNMLYlc






http://imgur.com/5FTVEGd




Accidentally switched back to 4000dpi when print screening ;D


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> Here it is with 6 on the windows slider and 4000dpi @ 1000hz
> 
> Better Link for Larger Size:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/WNMLYlc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5FTVEGd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accidentally switched back to 4000dpi when print screening ;D


You should stick with 800 CPI since that's native for the 3090.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You should stick with 800 CPI since that's native for the 3090.


What is CPI and how do you change it? Or are you talking about DPI?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> What is CPI and how do you change it? Or are you talking about DPI?


Counts per inch. It is the same as what most people call "DPI" but your mouse is not a damn printer. I always call it CPI, that is a much more accurate term for mouse sensor resolution.

Obviously you already know how to change it since you just posted above two Paint tests at different CPIs.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Counts per inch. It is the same as what most people call "DPI" but your mouse is not a damn printer. I always call it CPI, that is a much more accurate term for mouse sensor resolution.
> 
> Obviously you already know how to change it since you just posted above two Paint tests at different CPIs.


Yea i use it at 3200-4000dpi for normal crap like MMOs and MOBA but when I play FPS I play at 800DPI


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> Yea i use it at 3200-4000dpi for normal crap like MMOs and MOBA but when I play FPS I play at 800DPI


Alright yeah that'll work.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Alright yeah that'll work.


Do you think my mouse is over jittery though and should be exchanged?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nged72*
> 
> Do you think my mouse is over jittery though and should be exchanged?


Not at all, that looks very normal. All my 3090 mice track about the same way on cloth.


----------



## nged72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not at all, that looks very normal. All my 3090 mice track about the same way on cloth.


Thanks, Rep'd


----------



## nolonger

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? U$60
Do you want additional buttons? Don't need any
What games do you play? TF2, Runescape, Civ 5
Do you mind about prediction? No
Other relevant information: I loved my Deathadder, but it has given me problems from day one. I want a replacement with quality build that will give me a similar experience. I'd like to stick to mainstream brands as I live in Brazil and it might be hard to find the more exotic models here.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nolonger*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? U$60
> Do you want additional buttons? Don't need any
> What games do you play? TF2, Runescape, Civ 5
> Do you mind about prediction? No
> Other relevant information: I loved my Deathadder, but it has given me problems from day one. I want a replacement with quality build that will give me a similar experience. I'd like to stick to mainstream brands as I live in Brazil and it might be hard to find the more exotic models here.


EDIT: SteelSeries Rival

Sorry I'm tired. Not the Sensei. The Rival.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Avior sounds perfect for you if you like the Sensei shape but want something with an actually usable sensor.


what about the NAOS? It's similar to the DA's shape

in fact, I am right handed, should I just go for the NAOS or is the AVIOR better after all from an ergonomic perspective?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> what about the NAOS? It's similar to the DA's shape
> 
> in fact, I am right handed, should I just go for the NAOS or is the AVIOR better after all from an ergonomic perspective?


Not at all similar to the DA shape, it's much harder to lift than the Avior or a DA. The Avior is a more ergonomic Sensei basically. I would get that instead.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not at all similar to the DA shape, it's much harder to lift than the Avior or a DA. The Avior is a more ergonomic Sensei basically. I would get that instead.


thanks for clearing that up, I am torn between G502 and the MA7k ;_:
do you think the high weight of the G502 is going to be a hinderance for FPS games (BF4) ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> thanks for clearing that up, I am torn between G502 and the MA7k ;_:
> do you think the high weight of the G502 is going to be a hinderance for FPS games (BF4) ?


Yes it definitely could. The Avior is noticeably lighter. The G502's sensor is way more than you need, the 3310 is still a safe bet even in the wake of the 3366.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yes it definitely could. The Avior is noticeably lighter. The G502's sensor is way more than you need, the 3310 is still a safe bet even in the wake of the 3366.


The main reason I am waiting for the G502 to release here in Australia is that I read it isn't as picky about surfaces, is it? I think that is a decent advantage that the Logitech sensor has over the 3310 sensors, so I think I am going to try the G502 first. Then it will come down to the shape. If I don't like the shape then I will get the NAOS instead.

Another question - Is surface compatibility and performance something that can be updated via firmware, or is that a sensor limitation?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> The main reason I am waiting for the G502 to release here in Australia is that I read it isn't as picky about surfaces, is it? I think that is a decent advantage that the Logitech sensor has over the 3310 sensors, so I think I am going to try the G502 first. Then it will come down to the shape. If I don't like the shape then I will get the NAOS instead.
> 
> Another question - Is surface compatibility and performance something that can be updated via firmware, or is that a sensor limitation?


I've had both the Rival and the Avior and both had LOD skyrocket when used on an MM400. Those are my only data points. The tracking was perfect it's just that LOD isnt' necessarily optimal on hard mats. All cloth pads I've heard of work fine with the 3310 though.


----------



## Jeppzer

*What's your grip style?* I have big hands, so upper palm, fingers, while rest get dragged around on the pad.
*What's your sensitivity?* 1600 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* No limit except morally.
*Do you want additional buttons?* Back/Forward, scrollwheel.
*What games do you play?* Diablo 3.
*Do you mind about prediction?* No Idea.
*Other relevant information:* Corded. No wireless things! Also, I'm looking for a new one because my current M8000X is acting up, it's started to freeze or skip, requiring me to unplug and reconnect it in the middle of surfing or gaming to fix the issue. Getting real old real fast.


----------



## kyismaster

*What's your grip style?
*
- bear claw
*What's your sensitivity?*
- 5600 Dpi w/o acceleration
*What's your maximum budget?*
- sky high
*Do you want additional buttons?*
- would help, not necessary.
*What games do you play?*
-tera.... fps... yeah
*Do you mind about prediction?*
- if thats acceleration, kinda, sometimes goes too far with too little movement...
*Other relevant information*:
- using a mamba razer 2011/12

*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless,* onboard memory, etc

I like lights.


----------



## t6lock

What's your grip style? *claw*
What's your sensitivity? *2000 dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *$20-40*
Do you want additional buttons? *at least 2 side thumb buttons and middle mouse click*
What games do you play? *SC2 (mainly), DayZ*
Do you mind about prediction? *I have no idea what this means*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc *Braided cord would be nice, definitely needs to have some LED lights to match my 2012 Blackwidow.*

Currently using a 2012 Deathadder that is 2 years and 3 months old. I noticed the double-click malfunction about 5-6 months ago but it wasn't too bad. There was also an issue with holding down the mouse click and either highlighting text or selecting a large group of files where the click would let go in the middle of it. Finally decided to try to do something with it this last week and I think I might have made it worse-it does not register some light taps, which is really noticeable playing Starcraft.

I want to stay away from Logitech, even though they have great customer service, because I've been through 2 broken mouse wheels and 1 broken back button. If I can get something similar to the Deathadder that would be great, but the cheapest DA I can find now in Canada is still $65 (bought mine for $32 on a Black Friday). I find those eSports or those companies that sponsor the pro gamers are too gimmicky and would like to stay away from those. I also don't want one of those mid-Transformers mice like the MadCatz one. Just looking for something plain and reliable.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeppzer*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* I have big hands, so upper palm, fingers, while rest get dragged around on the pad.
> *What's your sensitivity?* 1600 DPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* No limit except morally.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Back/Forward, scrollwheel.
> *What games do you play?* Diablo 3.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* No Idea.
> *Other relevant information:* Corded. No wireless things! Also, I'm looking for a new one because my current M8000X is acting up, it's started to freeze or skip, requiring me to unplug and reconnect it in the middle of surfing or gaming to fix the issue. Getting real old real fast.


Mionix NAOS 7000? Possibly Corsair M45.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> *What's your grip style?
> *
> - bear claw
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> - 5600 Dpi w/o acceleration
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> - sky high
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> - would help, not necessary.
> *What games do you play?*
> -tera.... fps... yeah
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> - if thats acceleration, kinda, sometimes goes too far with too little movement...
> *Other relevant information*:
> - using a mamba razer 2011/12
> 
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless,* onboard memory, etc
> 
> I like lights.


Possibly Mionix AVIOR 7000 or Corsair M45.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t6lock*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *2000 dpi*
> What's your maximum budget? *$20-40*
> Do you want additional buttons? *at least 2 side thumb buttons and middle mouse click*
> What games do you play? *SC2 (mainly), DayZ*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I have no idea what this means*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc *Braided cord would be nice, definitely needs to have some LED lights to match my 2012 Blackwidow.*
> 
> Currently using a 2012 Deathadder that is 2 years and 3 months old. I noticed the double-click malfunction about 5-6 months ago but it wasn't too bad. There was also an issue with holding down the mouse click and either highlighting text or selecting a large group of files where the click would let go in the middle of it. Finally decided to try to do something with it this last week and I think I might have made it worse-it does not register some light taps, which is really noticeable playing Starcraft.
> 
> I want to stay away from Logitech, even though they have great customer service, because I've been through 2 broken mouse wheels and 1 broken back button. If I can get something similar to the Deathadder that would be great, but the cheapest DA I can find now in Canada is still $65 (bought mine for $32 on a Black Friday). I find those eSports or those companies that sponsor the pro gamers are too gimmicky and would like to stay away from those. I also don't want one of those mid-Transformers mice like the MadCatz one. Just looking for something plain and reliable.


I literally can't think of anything that would fit your price range other than the G100s unfortunately.


----------



## t6lock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I literally can't think of anything that would fit your price range other than the G100s unfortunately.


haha yeah, I'm strictly a deal finder. I never pay regular price for anything. All about $ / value for me


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix NAOS 7000? Possibly Corsair M45.
> Possibly Mionix AVIOR 7000 or Corsair M45.
> I literally can't think of anything that would fit your price range other than the G100s unfortunately.


how about talon claw grip, or does that not matter xD


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> how about talon claw grip, or does that not matter xD


Idk what that is lol claw grips work well on the Avior or M45.


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Idk what that is lol claw grips work well on the Avior or M45.


welp ill buy it when im ready.


----------



## 4ort

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip I believe, possibly claw.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Usually around 800, might go as low as 400 when doing something precise in Photoshop or Max..
*What's your maximum budget?*
Around 80 USD.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons (back/forward) are all I need besides the usual.
*What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS, occasionally an RPG or strategy game.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
If any of the mice I previously owned had it, I probably didn't notice. So I guess not but if it can be avoided...
*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.*
I owned: MX518, Diamondback 3G, Steelseries Xai.

The Diamondback was my absolute favorite as far as shape, weight, click feeling and grip. Xai was the worst, totally disliked that one, bulky, couldn't grip it properly, etc. MX518 was somewhere in between. Ideal mouse would be something similar to the Diamondback 3G. No wireless.


----------



## Atavax

Logitech G502 has the best sensor, but its heavy. The Mionix avior 7000 is much lighter and slightly worse sensor. Then if you want to go really small and light zowie fk , roccat savu or pyra


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Logitech G502 has the best sensor, but its heavy. The Mionix avior 7000 is much lighter and slightly worse sensor. Then if you want to go really small and light zowie fk , roccat savu or pyra


seems kinda big in hand :/


----------



## Pip Boy

Looking for a mouse without a crisp click sound. I prefer the muted rubbery thunk.

Any ideas?


----------



## nolonger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> EDIT: SteelSeries Rival
> 
> Sorry I'm tired. Not the Sensei. The Rival.


I can't find the Rival where I'm at, but can find the Sensei. Any other recommendations?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nolonger*
> 
> I can't find the Rival where I'm at, but can find the Sensei. Any other recommendations?


G502, Naos 7000. There aren't really that many palm-only mice with the new school sensors. If you don't mind a slightly lower max PCS you can go with an EC1 EVO.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Looking for a mouse without a crisp click sound. I prefer the muted rubbery thunk.
> 
> Any ideas?


Razer Deathadder 2013 or Black Edition.


----------



## Trel

I posted this

I currently use this mouse
Mouse: http://steelseries.com/products/games/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-mmo-gaming-mouse

*What's your grip style?*
--Hybrid/changing
*What's your sensitivity?*
--Adjustable would be good, though similar to the current one works
*What's your maximum budget?*
--Doesn't matter at the moment
*Do you want additional buttons?*
--Yes, mandatory
*What games do you play?*
--FPS and MMO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
--I'm not sure what this is
*Other relevant information:*
My only massive requirement is the scroll wheel must NOT be smooth, nor togglable. If it's not one of the kind that click (with no option to change) then I can't do it.

A lot of buttons like my current, preferably with at least one on the right, would be preferable

I prefer wired rather than wireless, though if there's a wireless that doesn't have any noticable issues, I'm open to that if it meets everything else.

I'm open to any brands, but one problem I did have with the software for this particular one is that when assigning a keybind to a button, it was unable to simulate holding the key in, it would only register a click, so I'd prefer if that was not the case with any suggestions.

A few days ago and the Logitech g602 was suggested. I bit the bullet and tried it, and as is always the case with wireless mice I've tried, the performance was horrible.

Does anyone know any alternative options. I'm going to add wired only, as I've never had a wireless mouse function in any way that's even remotely acceptable.


----------



## semantics

Did you try the G602 with the *use extension cord it comes with to put the wireless receiver as close to the mouse as possible, really does make a world of difference with wireless mice*. Assuming you haven't returned the G602 yet.

Logitech's G502 is the only pixart sensor mouse i can think of that has many buttons, only issue with suggesting that is the scroll wheel. You can set it to a click mode which it's actually not trashy feeling in click mode. It's by far their best version of their toggle wheel, but it's not a great scroll wheel even in click mode it's only acceptable it's the proper width and weight to it but the clicks aren't as well defined as i'd like them to be, better than the G9, G500 or G700 though. The middle click still requires a heavy press. Else it has 5 buttons easily accessible and rebindable on the left side more buttons if you can stand using G-shift , holding one button down changes the bindings on the other buttons while that button is held down. Plus 2 more if you count using the left and right tilt buttons on the scroll wheel but i wouldn't...

There aren't many options with great tracking that have many buttons how making are you looking for really only the G602 is it when it comes to buttons and tracking.

Going to mice that don't have perfect sensors. If you want a nice scroll wheel logitechs G600 is def not the answer horrid scroll wheel, i know that much. There is corsair M95, razors naga, there is the mad catz M.M.O 7 ionno how their scroll wheels are. The MMO7 has better tracking but has lift off issues lifting up the mouse off the mouse pad will mess up the placement of the cursor slightly, matters more to some than others. Else the naga and M95 use sensors with slight accell to them. I believe the MMO7 and naga iirc have quality issues not sure if that's been fixed.

I'd probably just go with the Mad catz mmo 7, most either love or hate the feel of it once they set it right or not.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Razer Deathadder 2013 or Black Edition.


thanks will give it a look see.


----------



## nolonger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G502, Naos 7000. There aren't really that many palm-only mice with the new school sensors. If you don't mind a slightly lower max PCS you can go with an EC1 EVO.


I'm starting to realize I actually have a mixed grip on my mice. Does that change the suggestions? I've been using an OCZ Behemoth for the past couple of days (I know, I know







) and I've been using claw grip on it.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nolonger*
> 
> I'm starting to realize I actually have a mixed grip on my mice. Does that change the suggestions? I've been using an OCZ Behemoth for the past couple of days (I know, I know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and I've been using claw grip on it.


The G502 I've heard can work for mixed grips. The other mice with the modern 3310 sensor are the Corsair M45 and Avior 7000. They both should work fine for claws. I'm a fingertip.


----------



## AstralReaper

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 2500dpi currently but it can change if needed. I need to move across a whole screen in a very small space.
What's your maximum budget? $60 - $100 if the mouse is worth it.
Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are okay.
What games do you play? All but mainly Source Engine games and other FPSers.
Do you mind about prediction? Not to sure.
Other relevant information: I have used a Dynex ambi mouse for 6 years before switching to a ttEsports Theron. It just doesn't feel right for me. I find myself holding the thing sideways due to my fingertip grip. It was probably made for palm users and I did no research before buying it. Good thing I got i for only $35.
I like the weight of a mouse to be balanced. My current one weighs 116 grams. From my middle finger down to end of my palm is about 8.25 inches. I use a cloth X trac pad Ripper XL if that matters. I have done some research already and am torn between the Rival and the Zowie FK and the AVIOR 7000. But I am still open to other mice. I'm just not sure on the shape of the rival. Thank you all in this matter.


----------



## Trel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Did you try the G602 with the *use extension cord it comes with to put the wireless receiver as close to the mouse as possible, really does make a world of difference with wireless mice*. Assuming you haven't returned the G602 yet.


Yes, I was literally less than a foot (with clear line of sight) to the receiver).
Quote:


> I'd probably just go with the Mad catz mmo 7, most either love or hate the feel of it once they set it right or not.


The only thing stopping me from going with the MMO7 is I keep reading horror stories about them breaking. Other than that, everything about this mouse does look perfect.
Do you know anything either way about the breaking down? (Such as is it a build issue that's since been addressed, etc)

I don't have a problem with the cursor jumping when it's lifted as I rarely lift the mouse, and even when I do, my current mouse moves a bit when I lift and place so I'm used to that.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AstralReaper*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? 2500dpi currently but it can change if needed. I need to move across a whole screen in a very small space.
> What's your maximum budget? $60 - $100 if the mouse is worth it.
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are okay.
> What games do you play? All but mainly Source Engine games and other FPSers.
> Do you mind about prediction? Not to sure.
> Other relevant information: I have used a Dynex ambi mouse for 6 years before switching to a ttEsports Theron. It just doesn't feel right for me. I find myself holding the thing sideways due to my fingertip grip. It was probably made for palm users and I did no research before buying it. Good thing I got i for only $35.
> I like the weight of a mouse to be balanced. My current one weighs 116 grams. From my middle finger down to end of my palm is about 8.25 inches. I use a cloth X trac pad Ripper XL if that matters. I have done some research already and am torn between the Rival and the Zowie FK and the AVIOR 7000. But I am still open to other mice. I'm just not sure on the shape of the rival. Thank you all in this matter.


Rival: Excellent sensor, nice button clicks, VERY large mouse. I'm a hybrid grip guy, and the mouse fit me very well. The only thing I didn't really like was the large hump around the palm area. It makes the mouse feel unusually large. There have been some complaints of the mouse "spazzing out" where the DPI starts randomly shifting for no reason. I've never experienced this, but it has been reported by some on the board.

Avior 7000: Same sensor as the Rival, but a bit more refined. It has a few more options open to the sensor, like the adjustable LOD. I love the mouse, personally. If it wasn't for my new found love of the G502 I'd still be using it. I might actually switch back if I get tired of the G502. It's great for hybrid grips and claws, but may cause some problems for palm grippers as the right side buttons might get in the way. This mouse feels much smaller than the Rival and can be flicked much easier.

Zowie FK: I'm a Zowie whore, so that may color my opinion a bit. The FK is the best light weight fingertip mouse out there IMO. It's compact, comfortable, super light, and tracks well. The biggest complaint I've had with mine was that the bottom tends to scrape on my mouse pad. The coating on some of the first FK '14 editions seem to have some trouble with the coating peeling after a couple of weeks/months. It seems to be hit or miss, though. The sensor also uses a magnifying lens, so the DPI steps are a bit strange. There is a 2300 step, and it's fantastic, so that may fit you like a glove. The perfect control speed on this mouse is going to be lower than the other two, so if you have super human fast swipes you may outrun the sensor.


----------



## metal571

Yeah I think for fingertip you would be hard pressed to do much better than the Avior or the FK. I prefer the former and I am also a fingertip/claw hybrid.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah I think for fingertip you would be hard pressed to do much better than the Avior or the FK. I prefer the former and I am also a fingertip/claw hybrid.


Give me FK with omron and 3310 atleast and I will be one happy panda.
Love the fk shape but the odd dpi sucks since I am a 800dpi user and adjusting ingame sens in mobs,rts is not possible really without added junk.
And huano is a pain to spam the crap out of in rts/moba.


----------



## Wargui

Currently using the ss Rival,but as a low sens player the mouse cable is driving me freaking nuts!.Its going back to the store tomorrow.

What's your grip style?A mix between claw and palm
What's your sensitivity?1.6 400dpi 500hz
What's your maximum budget?200$
Do you want additional buttons?I would prefer to have 2 extra buttons but its not a deal breaker
What games do you play?Cs go
Do you mind about prediction?Undecided
Other relevant information:I have very large hands so a mouse like Fk is not for me.I also dont mind a non braided cable but if its like the Rival its a no go.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah I think for fingertip you would be hard pressed to do much better than the Avior or the FK. I prefer the former and I am also a fingertip/claw hybrid.


Really depends on the size of the hump on avior and the fk, large hump and hard to grasp sides are the bane of fingertip grips. G9 is where it was at with fingertip grip. short not tall mouse with sides you can grasp.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> Currently using the ss Rival,but as a low sens player the mouse cable is driving me freaking nuts!.Its going back to the store tomorrow.
> 
> What's your grip style?A mix between claw and palm
> What's your sensitivity?1.6 400dpi 500hz
> What's your maximum budget?200$
> Do you want additional buttons?I would prefer to have 2 extra buttons but its not a deal breaker
> What games do you play?Cs go
> Do you mind about prediction?Undecided
> Other relevant information:I have very large hands so a mouse like Fk is not for me.I also dont mind a non braided cable but if its like the Rival its a no go.


Actually, you might want to give the G502 a shot. I feel your pain about the cable, it's very annoying. I would have recommended the Naos 7000, but it's not that easy to lift even though the sensor is great, and with that sensitivity I certainly wouldn't use it myself. My equivalent sens is 1.484 at 400 CPI, but I use the Avior because I'm a fingertip/claw hybrid kind of guy.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Really depends on the size of the hump on avior and the fk, large hump and hard to grasp sides are the bane of fingertip grips. G9 is where it was at with fingertip grip. short not tall mouse with sides you can grasp.


The Avior and FK are both very low profile mice. I have no problems with fingertipping either one. I own both of those mice.


----------



## Wargui

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Actually, you might want to give the G502 a shot. I feel your pain about the cable, it's very annoying. I would have recommended the Naos 7000, but it's not that easy to lift even though the sensor is great, and with that sensitivity I certainly wouldn't use it myself. My equivalent sens is 1.484 at 400 CPI, but I use the Avior because I'm a fingertip/claw hybrid kind of guy.


Thank you for the suggestion it looks like a great mouse.It does not not seem to be released in Canada yet so I guess I'm going back to my g400s for a bit.


----------



## AstralReaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Avior 7000: Same sensor as the Rival, but a bit more refined. It has a few more options open to the sensor, like the adjustable LOD. I love the mouse, personally. If it wasn't for my new found love of the G502 I'd still be using it. I might actually switch back if I get tired of the G502. It's great for hybrid grips and claws, but may cause some problems for palm grippers as the right side buttons might get in the way. This mouse feels much smaller than the Rival and can be flicked much easier.
> 
> Zowie FK: I'm a Zowie whore, so that may color my opinion a bit. The FK is the best light weight fingertip mouse out there IMO. It's compact, comfortable, super light, and tracks well. The biggest complaint I've had with mine was that the bottom tends to scrape on my mouse pad. The coating on some of the first FK '14 editions seem to have some trouble with the coating peeling after a couple of weeks/months. It seems to be hit or miss, though. The sensor also uses a magnifying lens, so the DPI steps are a bit strange. There is a 2300 step, and it's fantastic, so that may fit you like a glove. The perfect control speed on this mouse is going to be lower than the other two, so if you have super human fast swipes you may outrun the sensor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah I think for fingertip you would be hard pressed to do much better than the Avior or the FK. I prefer the former and I am also a fingertip/claw hybrid.


Thanks guys I decided to go for the Zowie FK as I can get it here sooner than a Avior and I like the whole no driver/software thing it has going on. If only I could have felt how they both feel before buying but that's they way this market works. If it doesn't pan out then Avior 7000 here I come.


----------



## metal571

Can someone seriously edit the OP of this thread? "do you mind about prediction" is:

1. not something most people know about at all
2. is the only technical question on the standard questions asked. where's mention of acceleration, z axis problems, jitter, PCS requirements? we aren't even asking these essential questions.

Furthermore people are interpreting "sensitivity" as CPI. It's not, we need to be specific that if you play FPS we need to know the cm/360.


----------



## Jeppzer

cm/360? Sounds like a skateboard trick.


----------



## metal571

lol. For FPS players it's how many centimeters of mouse movement you need to do a 360 degree turn in game.


----------



## lolwatpear

Hi can some recommend me a mouse based on this specs:

*What's your grip style?* palm/fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* no idea, i've gotten used to whatever my mouse offered
*What's your maximum budget?* $60 maybe more if it hits every thing i want
*Do you want additional buttons?* maybe 2 by the thumb
*What games do you play?* every genre about
*Do you mind about prediction?* yes
*Other relevant information:*

Must have a good sensor.

I'd want a mouse suited for right hand use.

Not wireless, not braided (unless there is some kind of good braiding out their that doesn't get permanent creases like my g500)

I'm looking for an anti-fingerprint/sweat/grime finish. I was considering the steelseries rival, but I hate that oil magnet finish that is soft touch.

I'd like a good scrollwheel, whatever that might be. I don't think i've ever experienced a good scroll wheel as i've only had logitech. I'd conisder the g400s, but would like to experience a better wheel.

I'd like onboard memory if possible, but this is definitely the least important spec.

Somewhat relating to onboard memory, if the mouse has LED's, I'd want to be able to turn them off. If this requires permanent driver installations, it's a dealbreaker.


----------



## Scrimstar

What's your grip style?
Claw/Palm

What's your sensitivity?
400DPI

What's your maximum budget?
$80

Do you want additional buttons?
Mouse3, comfty and not annoying please

What games do you play?
CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?
YES

Other relevant information:
Light mouse, comfty, durable. Is logitech gonna make another model with same sensor as g502? im using g500 and its too heavy and feel weird to hold, mouse 3 is annoying.

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw/Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $80
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mouse3, comfty and not annoying please
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> YES
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Light mouse, comfty, durable. Is logitech gonna make another model with same sensor as g502? im using g500 and its too heavy and feel weird to hold, mouse 3 is annoying.
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


Mouse3 usually means a clickable wheel, so I'll assume you mean Mouse4.

Lots of good mice out there for what you're asking. You may want to be more specific.

A few examples from the top of my hat: SteelSeries Rival, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn, Logitech G400 (not exactly for clawing, but same shape as your current mouse), Zowie FK, Zowie EC eVo, ...


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lolwatpear*
> 
> Hi can some recommend me a mouse based on this specs:
> 
> *What's your grip style?* palm/fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* no idea, i've gotten used to whatever my mouse offered
> *What's your maximum budget?* $60 maybe more if it hits every thing i want
> *Do you want additional buttons?* maybe 2 by the thumb
> *What games do you play?* every genre about
> *Do you mind about prediction?* yes
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Must have a good sensor.
> 
> I'd want a mouse suited for right hand use.
> 
> Not wireless, not braided (unless there is some kind of good braiding out their that doesn't get permanent creases like my g500)
> 
> I'm looking for an anti-fingerprint/sweat/grime finish. I was considering the steelseries rival, but I hate that oil magnet finish that is soft touch.
> 
> I'd like a good scrollwheel, whatever that might be. I don't think i've ever experienced a good scroll wheel as i've only had logitech. I'd conisder the g400s, but would like to experience a better wheel.
> 
> I'd like onboard memory if possible, but this is definitely the least important spec.
> 
> Somewhat relating to onboard memory, if the mouse has LED's, I'd want to be able to turn them off. If this requires permanent driver installations, it's a dealbreaker.


Roccat Savu or Roccat Kone Pure Optical. All newer Roccat mice have hands down the best scroll wheels on the market. Both mice meet your criteria, except they both have braided cords, albeit decent ones.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> Mouse3 usually means a clickable wheel, so I'll assume you mean Mouse4.
> 
> Lots of good mice out there for what you're asking. You may want to be more specific.
> 
> A few examples from the top of my hat: SteelSeries Rival, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn, Logitech G400 (not exactly for clawing, but same shape as your current mouse), Zowie FK, Zowie EC eVo, ...


ya i think i meant m4, i thought about the rival, but it looks weird. idk if that would be good for me, if i could test it it would be nice. i think i'd like the zowie mice if the sensors were better. im think im looking for something like the SS sensei with a really good sensor.


----------



## ajx

What is the best wireless gaming mice?
I currently own G700 and tried Mamba, and i definitely prefer G700 over Mamba from all aspect
RAT 9?


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> ya i think i meant m4, i thought about the rival, but it looks weird. idk if that would be good for me, if i could test it it would be nice. i think i'd like the zowie mice if the sensors were better. im think im looking for something like the SS sensei with a really good sensor.


If you want something more like the Sensei, try the Mionix Avior 7000.


----------



## cloudpierre

What's your grip style? palm
What's your sensitivity? 800 or 1000 dpi
What's your maximum budget? $60
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons needed, dpi button preferred
What games do you play? fps , all games
Do you mind about prediction? yes
Other relevant information: i have small hands so mouse must be medium or even small sized. deathadder was too big and uncomfortable, also developed a double click issue after only a year. xornet at 1000 dpi was very comfortable for me to palm and had great aim with it but received 2 defective units in a row, one double click and one cursor didn't move. logitech g400s is quite comfortable as well but have received 4 defective products in a row!! scrolls by itself and dpi buttons don't register as well as a couple of them having crooked/rough feet and scraping/crooked buttons. this is getting ridiculous. i just want a mouse that will fit my hands, work well at 800-1000 dpi, work well on my dark mouse pad, and be reliable. sensor doesn't need to be absolutely perfect as i actually feel i did best with my xornet which has the "worst" sensor of my last 3 mice. thanks


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudpierre*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? palm
> What's your sensitivity? 800 or 1000 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? $60
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons needed, dpi button preferred
> What games do you play? fps , all games
> Do you mind about prediction? yes
> Other relevant information: i have small hands so mouse must be medium or even small sized. deathadder was too big and uncomfortable, also developed a double click issue after only a year. xornet at 1000 dpi was very comfortable for me to palm and had great aim with it but received 2 defective units in a row, one double click and one cursor didn't move. logitech g400s is quite comfortable as well but have received 4 defective products in a row!! scrolls by itself and dpi buttons don't register as well as a couple of them having crooked/rough feet and scraping/crooked buttons. this is getting ridiculous. i just want a mouse that will fit my hands, work well at 800-1000 dpi, work well on my dark mouse pad, and be reliable. sensor doesn't need to be absolutely perfect as i actually feel i did best with my xornet which has the "worst" sensor of my last 3 mice. thanks


Take a look at CM Storm Alcor, Zowie EC2 and Roccat Savu.


----------



## Poloman

Hi, i been reading the forums for quite a while,but joined because this time around,the already existing threads couldnt help me decide.

What's your grip style?
Claw
What's your sensitivity?
2100 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
No cap
Do you want additional buttons?
No (but i love the g700/g602 extra buttons next to left click)
What games do you play?
MOBA,FPS "competitive",eveything casually.
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes
Other relevant information:
A wireless mouse would be my first choice,as most of the time im playing from a couch.
Currently i have a G9x,which i love,its perfect in my hand,but doesnt work very well,due to the cable being worn off at the usb connector side.

I have checked Rat9,ouroboros,g700s,g602,and none really seems perfect for me.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poloman*
> 
> Hi, i been reading the forums for quite a while,but joined because this time around,the already existing threads couldnt help me decide.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 2100 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> No cap
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No (but i love the g700/g602 extra buttons next to left click)
> What games do you play?
> MOBA,FPS "competitive",eveything casually.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> A wireless mouse would be my first choice,as most of the time im playing from a couch.
> Currently i have a G9x,which i love,its perfect in my hand,but doesnt work very well,due to the cable being worn off at the usb connector side.
> 
> I have checked Rat9,ouroboros,g700s,g602,and none really seems perfect for me.


Cm Storm is similar dimensions to the G9X


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poloman*
> 
> Hi, i been reading the forums for quite a while,but joined because this time around,the already existing threads couldnt help me decide.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 2100 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> No cap
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No (but i love the g700/g602 extra buttons next to left click)
> What games do you play?
> MOBA,FPS "competitive",eveything casually.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> A wireless mouse would be my first choice,as most of the time im playing from a couch.
> Currently i have a G9x,which i love,its perfect in my hand,but doesnt work very well,due to the cable being worn off at the usb connector side.
> 
> I have checked Rat9,ouroboros,g700s,g602,and none really seems perfect for me.


Try the Corsair M45. Very similar shape and an epic sensor. It's probably your best bet.


----------



## cloudpierre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Take a look at CM Storm Alcor, Zowie EC2 and Roccat Savu.


i was looking at the savu as it seemed to fit all my needs except i read complaints about the grip wearing off fast. do you know if this is an exaggerated issue now that it's been around longer for more people to experience (or not experience) ?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudpierre*
> 
> i was looking at the savu as it seemed to fit all my needs except i read complaints about the grip wearing off fast. do you know if this is an exaggerated issue now that it's been around longer for more people to experience (or not experience) ?


I think it depends on a lot of things. I have a Savu and it's like brand new. However, I swap mice constantly, so if I play for 100 hours, it's really only like 10 hours per mouse.


----------



## ravi300

Hi could someone give me a recommendation.

What's your grip style? fingertip mostly
What's your sensitivity? no idea i currently use a cheap mouse i got at a shop
What's your maximum budget? $80 maybe a bit more
Do you want additional buttons? thumb buttons would be nice or buttons i can easily access with my middle finger
What games do you play? mostly battlefield
Do you mind about prediction? not really

Other relevant information:
Mouse suited for right hand use.
No wireless mouses i always manage to lose the receivers.
Must have a good sensor.
Ability to change button actions would be nice

Read alot about the MIONIX AVIOR 7000 and was wondering if that would fit my needs


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ravi300*
> 
> Hi could someone give me a recommendation.
> 
> What's your grip style? fingertip mostly
> What's your sensitivity? no idea i currently use a cheap mouse i got at a shop
> What's your maximum budget? $80 maybe a bit more
> Do you want additional buttons? thumb buttons would be nice or buttons i can easily access with my middle finger
> What games do you play? mostly battlefield
> Do you mind about prediction? not really
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Mouse suited for right hand use.
> No wireless mouses i always manage to lose the receivers.
> Must have a good sensor.
> Ability to change button actions would be nice
> 
> Read alot about the MIONIX AVIOR 7000 and was wondering if that would fit my needs


You got it. The Avior would fit you well.

I play BF4 with it all the time.


----------



## Janisa

1. What's your grip style?

Tend to palm but when things get heated i find myself fingertip/claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?

1600-2000 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

$100.00

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Two thumb buttons.

5. What games do you play?

fps mostly

6. Do you mind about prediction?

not sure but i want a good sensor.

7. Other relevant information:

I don't like mice that have the right side like spawn, naos, etc.. Also don't like ambidextrous mice either. I like to have a lighter mouse as well. thanks for the help.


----------



## kyismaster

not to advertise but,

for those who are being recommended the Avoir like me

I stumbled upon this:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/mionix-avior


----------



## Zeix

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip/Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

800-1200 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?

SGD $35
USD $28

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Not really

5. What games do you play?

Dota2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

not really

7. Other relevant information:

Small hands. Was thinking of getting Salmosa or G100s .


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zeix*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip/Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800-1200 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> SGD $35
> USD $28
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Not really
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Dota2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> not really
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Small hands. Was thinking of getting Salmosa or G100s .


Salmosa ASIAN SPECIAL EDITION is definitely the smallest. I personally dislike the buttons. I am currently using a Zowie Mico, which I like. I have a Roccat Pyra at work (which is also a nice option for you to consider). G100s is a big bigger than these options, but if this size is better, you could look at a Commatech M1 FKmini.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Janisa*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Tend to palm but when things get heated i find myself fingertip/claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1600-2000 dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $100.00
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Two thumb buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> fps mostly
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> not sure but i want a good sensor.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> I don't like mice that have the right side like spawn, naos, etc.. Also don't like ambidextrous mice either. I like to have a lighter mouse as well. thanks for the help.


Possibly Corsair M45


----------



## Zeix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Salmosa ASIAN SPECIAL EDITION is definitely the smallest. I personally dislike the buttons. I am currently using a Zowie Mico, which I like. I have a Roccat Pyra at work (which is also a nice option for you to consider). G100s is a big bigger than these options, but if this size is better, you could look at a Commatech M1 FKmini.


What's wrong with the Salmosa's buttons?


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zeix*
> 
> What's wrong with the Salmosa's buttons?


You might like them, but I find I miss-click too much with them due to the combination of how light the resistance is and the way the shell curves upwards at the tip. With my grip at least, my fingers slide forwards into the tip of the button. It's mostly a problem for my right clicking finger. I got mine for under $20 delivered from a Korean eBayer. I'd say it's worth the purchase even if it doesn't work out for you. I still used it for several months and enjoyed it before I got the itch to search for something more suitable.


----------



## Zeix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> You might like them, but I find I miss-click too much with them due to the combination of how light the resistance is and the way the shell curves upwards at the tip. With my grip at least, my fingers slide forwards into the tip of the button. It's mostly a problem for my right clicking finger. I got mine for under $20 delivered from a Korean eBayer. I'd say it's worth the purchase even if it doesn't work out for you. I still used it for several months and enjoyed it before I got the itch to search for something more suitable.


Thanks for fast reply!
How is the durability?How long did urs last?


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zeix*
> 
> Thanks for fast reply!
> How is the durability?How long did urs last?


It's still going strong, but I probably only used it for around 3 months at around an average of 10 hours a week. Razer don't have the best reputation for longevity, but at $20, you could just by another one if it broke after a year or whatever ...


----------



## Zeix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> It's still going strong, but I probably only used it for around 3 months at around an average of 10 hours a week. Razer don't have the best reputation for longevity, but at $20, you could just by another one if it broke after a year or whatever ...


I was hoping it could work a year and a half


----------



## SONICDK

What's your grip style?
palm/claw
What's your sensitivity?
1150-2300
What's your maximum budget?
does not matter
Do you want additional buttons?
two on the left side
What games do you play?
most shooters
Do you mind about prediction?
DONT want prediction. angle snapping. or any accel
Other relevant information:
need a lightweight mouse with a low height. if it got buttons for lefthanded, tell me how they intervene with both claw and palm grip
the g400 is too high and make my wrist/hand bend too much backwards. begins to hurt when playing too much
have small hands cant even reach the second thumb button.


----------



## teeg

1.What's your grip style?
Claw/Fingertip
2.What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI, relatively low ingame
3.What's your maximum budget?
n/a
4.Do you want additional buttons?
n/a, would like to avoid too many buttons
5.What games do you play?
1.6, CSGO
6.Do you mind about prediction?
Cannot have prediction, acceleration, jitter, input lag
7.Other relevant information:
I've mainly used a WMO 1.1A and Zowie FK, I've considered the Mionix Avior 7000 but would like to know if there are other options I haven't heard about.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SONICDK*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm/claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1150-2300
> What's your maximum budget?
> does not matter
> Do you want additional buttons?
> two on the left side
> What games do you play?
> most shooters
> Do you mind about prediction?
> DONT want prediction. angle snapping. or any accel
> Other relevant information:
> need a lightweight mouse with a low height. if it got buttons for lefthanded, tell me how they intervene with both claw and palm grip
> the g400 is too high and make my wrist/hand bend too much backwards. begins to hurt when playing too much
> have small hands cant even reach the second thumb button.


Mionix Avior 7000 should fit fairly well, though there are still lighter mice but you won't get the exact CPI you're looking for with them. You will with this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> Claw/Fingertip
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> 400 DPI, relatively low ingame
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> n/a
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> n/a, would like to avoid too many buttons
> 5.What games do you play?
> 1.6, CSGO
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> Cannot have prediction, acceleration, jitter, input lag
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I've mainly used a WMO 1.1A and Zowie FK, I've considered the Mionix Avior 7000 but would like to know if there are other options I haven't heard about.


The Avior is probably your best bet but I suppose if you want you could also try the Corsair M45.


----------



## zigziglar

I have a stone desk with rough texture that doesn't work great with soft mousepads, as you can feel the bumps through them.

Which hard pad should I get to suit 1600-1800dpi OPTICAL mice? I've heard good things about the Propus 380 and SS 4HD. Any suggestions?

I'm currently using an Artisan Hayate cloth pad, which is great, but I have to layer it with a solid base and it looks poop/aesthetically unpleasant.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> I have a stone desk with rough texture that doesn't work great with soft mousepads, as you can feel the bumps through them.
> 
> Which hard pad should I get to suit 1600-1800dpi OPTICAL mice? I've heard good things about the Propus 380 and SS 4HD. Any suggestions?
> 
> I'm currently using an Artisan Hayate cloth pad, which is great, but I have to layer it with a solid base and it looks poop/aesthetically unpleasant.


Similar situation here (except the desk)

Is there any hard pad that would be suitable for the PMW3305 sensor (Kana/Bloody V)? (not suitable for multicolored mouse mat)

Also, it needs to be durable enough to be used with metal mouse skates.


----------



## PontiacGTX

What's your grip style?

Claw

What's your sensitivity?

1000DPI or more

What's your maximum budget?

35usd On amazon,but better under 30

Do you want additional buttons?

Left Side buttons

What games do you play?

FPS,RTS,TPS

Do you mind about prediction?

Could you suggest some with and without?

Other relevant information:

Right Hand mouse,I currently have a M510 and I feel comfortable with its shape,what do you think anbout the mouse that comes with the Devatator bundle


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PontiacGTX*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1000DPI or more
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 35usd On amazon,but better under 30
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Left Side buttons
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> FPS,RTS,TPS
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Could you suggest some with and without?
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Right Hand mouse,I currently have a M510 and I feel comfortable with its shape,what do you think anbout the mouse that comes with the Devatator bundle


Not possible. Not with the side buttons requirement and budget constraint.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not possible. Not with the side buttons requirement and budget constraint.


then withoout

what do you think about these

http://www.amazon.com/Programmable-Buttons-Profiles-specific-Switches/dp/B00CBQO930/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-7&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse

http://www.amazon.com/E-3lue-E-Blue-2-4GHz-Wireless-Optical/dp/B00DPC015E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-910-001822-M510-Wireless-Mouse/dp/B003NR57BY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-5&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse

http://www.amazon.com/Diablotek-HAWKPECK-2-4GHZ-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B001CZKSWW/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-12&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse

http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Devastator-Gaming-Keyboard/dp/B00DKXXAAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047946&sr=8-1&keywords=cooler+master+devastator

Remmeber that I have a wireless keyboard so i woudl need another receptor or just change Mouse and keyboard


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PontiacGTX*
> 
> then withoout
> 
> what do you think about these
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Programmable-Buttons-Profiles-specific-Switches/dp/B00CBQO930/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-7&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/E-3lue-E-Blue-2-4GHz-Wireless-Optical/dp/B00DPC015E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-910-001822-M510-Wireless-Mouse/dp/B003NR57BY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-5&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Diablotek-HAWKPECK-2-4GHZ-Wireless-Keyboard/dp/B001CZKSWW/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047787&sr=8-12&keywords=wireless+gaming+mouse
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Devastator-Gaming-Keyboard/dp/B00DKXXAAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399047946&sr=8-1&keywords=cooler+master+devastator
> 
> Remmeber that I have a wireless keyboard so i woudl need another receptor or just change Mouse and keyboard


None of those are good. You just have to accept the fact that you can't get a good gaming mouse within your price range unless it's basically the G100s. If you're really nice to me, I might sell you my Zowie FK for $40.


----------



## PontiacGTX

I already bought the usd i had left in amazon gift cards.anyway thanks

Does someone have an opinion above my post above written(i dont want stellar performance only as good as my current mouse or a bit better)


----------



## MakubeX

Looking for the best light optical mouse for FPS gaming.


What's your grip style?
Fingertip

What's your sensitivity?
>=1000 DPI @ 1000Hz

What's your maximum budget?
~$100

Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 thumb buttons

What games do you play?
At the moment a lot of BF4 but a lot of other FPS as well. I play all kinds of games but the mouse decision is based on FPS games.

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, no prediction or acceleration.

Other relevant information:
I'm looking for the best right handed *optical* **light** mouse. I like my G500 but whenever I use old mice like the MX518 it feels so light and effortless to move. I'm all about slickness of movement, I would use my mouse on ice if I could. I use a hard aluminum mouse pad (Steelseries SX). If the mouse has small feet then even better because it means less friction. That said, I don't want a tiny mouse and sacrifice comfort for low weight.

Being able to change DPI on the fly is I feature I like but not necessarily a deal breaker.

I have average size hands.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Looking for the best light optical mouse for FPS gaming.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> >=1000 DPI @ 1000Hz
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~$100
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 thumb buttons
> 
> What games do you play?
> At the moment a lot of BF4 but a lot of other FPS as well. I play all kinds of games but the mouse decision is based on FPS games.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, no prediction or acceleration.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I'm looking for the best *optical* **light** mouse. I like my G500 but whenever I use old mice like the MX518 it feels so light and effortless to move. I'm all about slickness of movement, I would use my mouse on ice if I could. I use a hard aluminum mouse pad (Steelseries SX). If the mouse has small feet then even better because it means less friction. That said, I don't want a tiny mouse and sacrifice comfort for low weight.
> 
> Being able to change DPI on the fly is I feature I like but not necessarily a deal breaker.
> 
> I have average size hands.


Considered a Kone Pure Optical? It's smaller (but not too small like CM Storm Spawn, Logitech G100s or Razer Abyssus to name a few) and lighter than G500 (25-30g, don't know exactly). Performance is very good, if you ask me. Never used it with fingtertip grip, but you should be able to since you do that on G500. Have both mice.


----------



## MakubeX

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Considered a Kone Pure Optical? It's smaller (but not too small like CM Storm Spawn, Logitech G100s or Razer Abyssus to name a few) and lighter than G500 (25-30g, don't know exactly). Performance is very good, if you ask me. Never used it with fingtertip grip, but you should be able to since you do that on G500. Have both mice.


Thanks for the suggestion. I've read complaints about having to lift it too high for it to stop tracking. What is your opinion on that?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> false
> Thanks for the suggestion. I've read complaints about having to lift it too high for it to stop tracking. What is your opinion on that?


LoD is something that does not affect me at all or I don't care at all. It's a little higher than G500. Depends on how sensitive you are about these things. I like both mice a lot, Kone Pure is just a little too small for me. Performance and whatnot is great, if you ask me.


----------



## anodizingstatic

Best editing AND gaming mouse?

Currently I have the corsair raptor M30. It's broken now. Was good for gaming but the scroll wheel would not "sync" properly and scroll back up after scrolling down. Didn't have that defined clicking sensation.

I've been looking @ the DeathAdder and Roccat Kone.

Suggestions? REP +


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anodizingstatic*
> 
> Best editing AND gaming mouse?
> 
> Currently I have the corsair raptor M30. It's broken now. Was good for gaming but the scroll wheel would not "sync" properly and scroll back up after scrolling down. Didn't have that defined clicking sensation.
> 
> I've been looking @ the DeathAdder and Roccat Kone.
> 
> Suggestions? REP +


What do you mean by "editing mouse"?


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> LoD is something that does not affect me at all or I don't care at all. It's a little higher than G500. Depends on how sensitive you are about these things. I like both mice a lot, Kone Pure is just a little too small for me. Performance and whatnot is great, if you ask me.


So then it's smaller than the G500?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> So then it's smaller than the G500?


LoD is alittle higher than G500, size of the mouse is smaller than G500. It's not a tiny mouse though.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> LoD is alittle higher than G500, size of the mouse is smaller than G500. It's not a tiny mouse though.


Yeah, I meant the size. Hmmm, that's not good. The G500 is about as small as I like a mouse. I'm not going to discard the Kone yet, though. I'm gonna do some research to see how much smaller (maybe you have pics?).

Thanks for the info. +rep


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Yeah, I meant the size. Hmmm, that's not good. The G500 is about as small as I like a mouse. I'm not going to discard the Kone yet, though. I'm gonna do some research to see how much smaller (maybe you have pics?).
> 
> Thanks for the info. +rep


PM'd some pictures.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> PM'd some pictures.


Got'em, thanks.

For those interested, the Kone is not much smaller than the G500 in terms of width and length, but there's quite a big of difference in height. The Kone looks much flatter.


----------



## Frozenoblivion

Any good mouse that's a bit bigger than the Naga 2013 that's good for FPS/action games and also photoshop/video editing work?


----------



## MakubeX

What do you guys think about the SteelSeries Rival for my needs as specified in this post?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Looking for the best light optical mouse for FPS gaming.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> >=1000 DPI @ 1000Hz
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~$100
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 thumb buttons
> 
> What games do you play?
> At the moment a lot of BF4 but a lot of other FPS as well. I play all kinds of games but the mouse decision is based on FPS games.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, no prediction or acceleration.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I'm looking for the best *optical* **light** mouse. I like my G500 but whenever I use old mice like the MX518 it feels so light and effortless to move. I'm all about slickness of movement, I would use my mouse on ice if I could. I use a hard aluminum mouse pad (Steelseries SX). If the mouse has small feet then even better because it means less friction. That said, I don't want a tiny mouse and sacrifice comfort for low weight.
> 
> Being able to change DPI on the fly is I feature I like but not necessarily a deal breaker.
> 
> I have average size hands.


I read your other posts after this as well; there seems to be a misconception here about what you think is large and what is light. The G500 is both large AND heavy to us guys with more mice experience. We consider "light" to be something on the order of the Zowie FK, which is very small compared to the G500 and works great for fingertip gamers, it feels like you're using a pencil. I have one, and am actually thinking about letting go of it.

Most of the time though I use the Mionix Avior 7000 and I'm also a fingertip gamer. It's smaller and lighter than the G500 as well. It's always my recommendation to people if they are looking for a fingertip mouse because I have never experienced such consistency and awesome gameplay as ever before.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I read your other posts after this as well; there seems to be a misconception here about what you think is large and what is light. The G500 is both large AND heavy to us guys with more mice experience. We consider "light" to be something on the order of the Zowie FK, which is very small compared to the G500 and works great for fingertip gamers, it feels like you're using a pencil. I have one, and am actually thinking about letting go of it.
> 
> Most of the time though I use the Mionix Avior 7000 and I'm also a fingertip gamer. It's smaller and lighter than the G500 as well. It's always my recommendation to people if they are looking for a fingertip mouse because I have never experienced such consistency and awesome gameplay as ever before.


Why do think there's a misconception? I don't think the G500 is light, that is why I'm looking for a light mice. Also, how would you know how much mice experience I have?

I had considered the Avior 7000 but I don't like that it has buttons on both sides.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Why do think there's a misconception? I don't think the G500 is light, that is why I'm looking for a light mice. Also, how would you know how much mice experience I have?
> 
> I had considered the Avior 7000 but I don't like that it has buttons on both sides.


Oh did I misread? I thought you said the G500 was light. That's my bad. lol

Just about all ambidextrous mice are going to have buttons on both sides if they are going to have buttons at all. I guess you are looking for a right handed ergonomic mouse small enough to be fingertipped. The Zowie EC2 EVO would probably work pretty well for that, but I've never owned one. Maybe even the Roccat Savu? I'll let the actual owners of some of these models chime in here.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh did I misread? I thought you said the G500 was light. That's my bad. lol
> 
> Just about all ambidextrous mice are going to have buttons on both sides. I guess you are looking for a right handed ergonomic mouse small enough to be fingertipped. The Zowie EC2 EVO would probably work pretty well for that, but I've never owned one. Maybe even the Roccat Savu? I'll let the actual owners of some of these models chime in here.


Yeah, I guess I should mention in my post that I'm looking for a right handed mouse. The Roccat Savu is in my watch list but I'm worried it's about as tall as the Kone. If someone knows, please post some info.

I'll look into the Zowie, thanks for the suggestion.

Any thoughts on the Steelseries Rival? I know some people have issues with the software/firmware, but I might take my chances with that.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Yeah, I guess I should mention in my post that I'm looking for a right handed mouse. The Roccat Savu is in my watch list but I'm worried it's about as tall as the Kone. If someone knows, please post some info.
> 
> I'll look into the Zowie, thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> Any thoughts on the Steelseries Rival? I know some people have issues with the software/firmware, but I might take my chances with that.


The Rival is huge, there aren't any software issues anymore, they were fixed AFAIK with a recent update SS pushed out. It's a really tall mouse, I doubt you would like it. Could also look into the DA 2013.


----------



## MakubeX

Note that I'm n
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Rival is huge, there aren't any software issues anymore, they were fixed AFAIK with a recent update SS pushed out. It's a really tall mouse, I doubt you would like it. Could also look into the DA 2013.


Note that I'm not looking for a smaller mouse, but a lighter mouse. For example, I'm fine with the size of the G500 which is only 1mm shorter than the Rival. My real concern is the weight. Not saying I wouldn't go for a smaller mouse, but that a big mouse is not an issue for me as long as it's light. In fact, to me the Zowie seemed a bit too small.

The DA is a classic, and a friend of mine has it, but I'm not interested in it at the moment.

So far it's between the Roccat mice (Kone or Savu) and the Rival.









Edit: Kind of leaning more toward one of the Roccat mice...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Note that I'm n
> Note that I'm not looking for a smaller mouse, but a lighter mouse. For example, I'm fine with the size of the G500 which is only 1mm shorter than the Rival. My real concern is the weight. Not saying I wouldn't go for a smaller mouse, but that a big mouse is not an issue for me as long as it's light. In fact, to me the Zowie seemed a bit too small.
> 
> The DA is a classic, and a friend of mine has it, but I'm not interested in it at the moment.
> 
> So far it's between the Roccat mice (Kone or Savu) and the Rival.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Kind of leaning more toward one of the Roccat mice...


The Rival isn't light either actually, but the side grips make it feel a lot lighter than it actually is since they make it so easy to move around.

The Roccat optical mice will have some smoothing since they are all using the 4000 CPI SROM for the 3090.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Rival isn't light either actually, but the side grips make it feel a lot lighter than it actually is since they make it so easy to move around.
> 
> The Roccat optical mice will have some smoothing since they are all using the 4000 CPI SROM for the 3090.


It weighs 90g without the cable, to me that's light. Sucks about the smoothing, though. Dang it...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> It weighs 90g without the cable, to me that's light. Sucks about the smoothing, though. Dang it...


The cable is really annoying on the Rival, and also thats weird cause mine felt like it was over 100g, but I never actually weighed it.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The cable is really annoying on the Rival, and also thats weird cause mine felt like it was over 100g, but I never actually weighed it.


Yeah, I know it's not braided, but I can live with that. Why do they all have to have a downside!









The search continues...

Also, +rep b4 I forget.









PS. I'm fine with a little over 100g, btw.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Yeah, I know it's not braided, but I can live with that. Why do they all have to have a downside!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The search continues...
> 
> Also, +rep b4 I forget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS. I'm fine with a little over 100g, btw.


Thanks, I still think the new DA 2013 with its most recent update might be a good choice. That's a very light mouse for being a DA.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Thanks, I still think the new DA 2013 with its most recent update might be a good choice. That's a very light mouse for being a DA.


I might have to put the DA 2013 on the list.

Also about the AVIOR 7000, I don't know why I didn't think about this before, but I can just disable the 2 buttons on the right side.







I can put it back on the list. I do wish they had the same model but right handed.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> I might have to put the DA 2013 on the list.
> 
> Also about the AVIOR 7000, I don't know why I didn't think about this before, but I can just disable the 2 buttons on the right side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can put it back on the list. I do wish they had the same model but right handed.


The Avior is better, go for that. It's my primary mouse, it's incredible. Actually the right side buttons are disabled right out of the box.


----------



## kremtok

Code:


[LIST=1]
 [*] What's your grip style?
[B]Fingertip, apparently.[/B]
 [*] What's your sensitivity?
[B]No idea. Using the second of three options on my current G500.[/B]
 [*] What's your maximum budget?
[B]As much as it takes to get something that will last for many years.[/B]
 [*] Do you want additional buttons?
[B]Yes. I use thumb buttons all the time and though it should go without saying, it must have a scroll wheel.[/B]
 [*] What games do you play?
[B]Diablo 3 is my primary game, though I'd like a bit of versatility. Please no 27-thumb-button WoW mice, though.[/B]
 [*] Do you mind about prediction?
[B]I don't know what that is.[/B]
 [*] Other relevant information:
[B]I must have a wired mouse. Batteries piss me off. I prefer a heavy mouse, and though that's really only a preference, it's a strong one. I like my G500 a great deal
and I'd rather not part with it, but the right click button has become unreliable and if I'm going to replace it I'd like to upgrade if I can.[/B]
[/LIST]

Also, please fix the default 'copy this!' from the OP. That's what it looks like.

EDIT: Oh, and please don't tell me to buy anything by Razer. They've gotten quite enough of my money and I haven't gotten quite enough in return, so I won't even consider any of their products. I'm sure you understand.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Avior is better, go for that. It's my primary mouse, it's incredible. Actually the right side buttons are disabled right out of the box.


Yeah, looks like the best choice so far. I wish it didn't have such big mouse feet to minimize friction, but that's a very minor con.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Yeah, looks like the best choice so far. I wish it didn't have such big mouse feet to minimize friction, but that's a very minor con.


Basic physics States that F = uN. Frictional force only depends on the normal force and the coefficient of friction, NOT the surface area.

I guess there are some things from undergrad I do remember...


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Basic physics States that F = uN. Frictional force only depends on the normal force and the coefficient of friction, NOT the surface area.
> 
> I guess there are some things from undergrad I do remember...


Oh, that's right. I did not remember that. It won't matter because I'm still exerting the same force over the mouse. Awesome, thanks, that appeases my mind.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Oh, that's right. I did not remember that. It won't matter because I'm still exerting the same force over the mouse. Awesome, thanks, that appeases my mind.


I would even argue that larger feet are better because you're less likely to have a misbalanced mouse where only 3 corners of it are actually touching the mousepad or some plastic part is scraping on the bottom. Also, the Avior feet are some of the best I've ever tested. They are smooth as butter, maybe even better than Razer's feet.

That company is the real deal, man. 6 people designing some of the world's best gaming peripherals. Just 6 people. Amazing.


----------



## xmr1

Avior feet are definitely the best I've used. Just two simple, thick and polished PTFE pads. There's fewer housings and edges and tolerance issues and whatever other variables can come into play with designs that use 3 or 4 smaller feet.


----------



## MakubeX

AVIOR 7000 ordered.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.


----------



## AsfHayabusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> AVIOR 7000 ordered.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, guys.


nice, have fun with that!


----------



## Waleh

Hey guys, I currently use a Logitech MX300 (I've had this for many many years) what do you guys recommend to replace this? I want the same grip style as I am very used to it


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waleh*
> 
> Hey guys, I currently use a Logitech MX300 (I've had this for many many years) what do you guys recommend to replace this? I want the same grip style as I am very used to it


Logitech G100s, Razer Abyssus, Steelseries Kinzu, Zowie FK. Some smaller ambi mice.


----------



## nusho

[*] What's your grip style?
A fingertip grip that is in the middle of the mouse -- slightly like a claw grip however.
[*] What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi, 2.2 in game sens (cs) --.76 zoom sens
[*] What's your maximum budget?
60 bucks
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
I like to have two on the side just as mic buttons
[*] What games do you play?
cs, total war, and some other strategy and cs games. Maybe will get into LoL.
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
No, I want a predictionless mouse.
[*] Other relevant information:
I am right handed and want something that isnt too big because I have small hands. THis is why i am looking at the zowie mouses (ec2 evo and fk) but I really do not know much about mouses. I have been using the Mx518 but its too big and gives me cramps sometimes.


----------



## anodizingstatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> What do you mean by "editing mouse"?


You know what I mean. A mouse that is efficient enough to make quick edits, scroll well and sync properly.


----------



## alancsalt

Swearing posts deleted.
Quote:


> *You are EXPECTED to:
> Maintain an environment that is friendly to all ages
> No swearing, racy images etc.
> 
> You may not:
> Use profanity. This includes the use of symbols, abbreviations, or acronyms to circumvent the no profanity rule.*


*Anything that turns into asterisks, just edit it out, use some other words...*

This includes images. If you quote asterisks or swearing your post gets deleted as well, so best not to.


----------



## TK421

"Maintain an environment that is friendly to all ages"

how young do you think the OCN visitors are?


----------



## phlare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> "Maintain an environment that is friendly to all ages"
> 
> how young do you think the OCN visitors are?


It's to protect all our resident toddlers.

No, but really, we don't want to corrupt the innocent souls of youngsters. Haven't you played against them in various MOBAs? Remarkably well-behaved. The things they've supposedly done to my mother is _100% SFW._ Squeaky-clean, these little buggers.


----------



## 15130

Hey guys, I'm looking for a new mouse, it has to be laser (thats the reason why I'm getting a new one), preferably not wireless and no drivers.
The mouse I'm using is a Zowie FK and my grip style is half "finger tip" and half full weight of the hand on the mouse (dunno if thats very clear).
I'm using low to very high sens, wouldn't mind some extras such as unusual buttons, leds or whatever. And no prediction please. Budget is not an issue.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *15130*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking for a new mouse, it has to be laser (thats the reason why I'm getting a new one), preferably not wireless and no drivers.
> The mouse I'm using is a Zowie FK and my grip style is half "finger tip" and half full weight of the hand on the mouse (dunno if thats very clear).
> I'm using low to very high sens, wouldn't mind some extras such as unusual buttons, leds or whatever. And no prediction please. Budget is not an issue.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Avior 8200


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *15130*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking for a new mouse, it has to be laser (thats the reason why I'm getting a new one), preferably not wireless and no drivers.
> The mouse I'm using is a Zowie FK and my grip style is half "finger tip" and half full weight of the hand on the mouse (dunno if thats very clear).
> I'm using low to very high sens, wouldn't mind some extras such as unusual buttons, leds or whatever. And no prediction please. Budget is not an issue.
> 
> Thanks in advance


If you don't mind me asking, why do you think you need a laser mouse?


----------



## Krucid

Good question, i just figured he had some odd surface like glass or something.


----------



## 15130

Thanks for the Mionix suggestion, I'll looking at it right now. Looks pretty nice.

I don't really need a laser mouse, I was just thinking a while ago about getting a new mouse, but didn't know where to go from there.
I guess I'm just curious about laser since I've never owned one, also I purchased a Func Surface 1030 XL and noticed both of my Zowie mices had some issues with it and thought that maybe laser would fit better.

I like to own really good products just for the sake of it, and since in my opinion my Zowie FK is an amazing optical mouse I'd like to have the same for laser.

I'm really not knowledgable when it comes to hardware tought, so feel free to call me on my stupidity









edit:
I'm also using many different mousepads (such as aluminium ones) because I like to try new things all the time, and figured a laser mouse would accept to go where my Zowies wouldn't.


----------



## Krucid

If you don't need a laser then don't get a laser. Optical is the way to go.

That being said then look at the Avior 7000 instead. Don't let the 7000 being a lower number than the 8200 confuse you into thinking it's an inferior mouse, because it is not.

Other suggestions, Naos 7000, Corsair M45, Logitech G502, Steelseries Rival.

I however, recommend the Naos/Avior 7000 if either shape fits your needs.


----------



## TK421

Any recommendation for hard mouse pad?

To be used with optical sensor (PMW3305).


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Any recommendation for hard mouse pad?
> 
> To be used with optical sensor (PMW3305).


Don't have a mouse with that sensor, but my G500 (9500) and Kone Pure Optical (3090) work good on 9HD. Probably Destructor 2, G440 and Raivo are also nice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> If you don't need a laser then don't get a laser. Optical is the way to go.
> 
> That being said then look at the Avior 7000 instead. Don't let the 7000 being a lower number than the 8200 confuse you into thinking it's an inferior mouse, because it is not.
> 
> Other suggestions, Naos 7000, Corsair M45, Logitech G502, Steelseries Rival.
> 
> I however, recommend the Naos/Avior 7000 if either shape fits your needs.


However they're right in saying laser is better for hard mats. Also acceleration issues with the 9800 is less severe on hard mats anyway. The 7000 has high LOD on many hard surfaces.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Any recommendation for hard mouse pad?
> 
> To be used with optical sensor (PMW3305).


After some recent research into the topic myself, I have purchased the Miniox Propus 380. I'll share my thoughts on it after I've had more time to test it with various optical mice.


----------



## Hitesh12

What's your grip style?
Claw

What's your sensitivity?
800. CSGO In-game - 2.0

What's your maximum budget?
30-35$. But you can recommend costly ones too as I don't have a problem with an used mouse.

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. Atleast 2-3

What games do you play?
CS GO only

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes.

Other relevant information:
I currently have CM Spawn, but it is still small for me. My friend has G400s and it is a little too big.
It would be awesome if I could get something in between


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hitesh12*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800. CSGO In-game - 2.0
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 30-35$. But you can recommend costly ones too as I don't have a problem with an used mouse.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. Atleast 2-3
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS GO only
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I currently have CM Spawn, but it is still small for me. My friend has G400s and it is a little too big.
> It would be awesome if I could get something in between


Roccat Kone Pure Optical. Should be small enough, but not too small. Have it myself, but I prefer G500 because of size.


----------



## Kenikel

Hi, I've been using a very cheap mouse that I bought when I got my new computer and I didn't bother much about mice back then. But I guess it's time to get a better mouse that is more suited for gaming.

What's your grip style?
I mainly use claw grip.
What's your sensitivity?
I don't really know what my mouse's DPI is since it's a really cheap mouse. It says 800 on the box but I don't think you can trust it. I use 2.95 sensitivity in CS:GO and 6/11 in Windows.
What's your maximum budget?
About $40
Do you want additional buttons?
No, I don't need additional buttons at all.
What games do you play?
CS GO, League of Legends mainly.
Do you mind about prediction?
My mouse has prediction and I don't really have much trouble with it. But I guess I don't want prediction.
Other relevant information:
I just want an inexpensive mouse with great and accurate sensor, with no jitters, skips, etc. that's it. Don't really want some fancy mouse. I am not really sure about my hand size, but I think the Abyssus is a bit tiny for me since my mouse is about the same size and my hand can't fit it. I lose control of my mouse really often because of that. I live in Australia so I may not be able to get my hands on some mice, CM Spawn, G100s for example and the price may be a bit different but I will try to find what you guys may suggest. Other than that, I guess I don't really my about the weight, shape, or cord and nobody wants wireless mice I guess.
Actually been looking at the Abyssus( got a really good deal at the local store). I heard it got a really great sensor and stuff, but has really bad jitters sometimes. But the size is actually what worries me the most. Seems quite small for me. But I don't really mind getting it if that's my best bet.
I will wait for your answers. Thank you in advance.


----------



## Hitesh12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Optical. Should be small enough, but not too small. Have it myself, but I prefer G500 because of size.


Is it bigger than spawn ?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hitesh12*
> 
> Is it bigger than spawn ?


Had the CM Spawn for few days, but I sent it back because it was too small for me. KPO, as I mentioned, is still too small for me. I can use a KPO without problems in comparison to Spawn, it's just I prefer the bigger size of the G500.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hitesh12*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800. CSGO In-game - 2.0
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 30-35$. But you can recommend costly ones too as I don't have a problem with an used mouse.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. Atleast 2-3
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS GO only
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I currently have CM Spawn, but it is still small for me. My friend has G400s and it is a little too big.
> It would be awesome if I could get something in between


Mionix Avior 7000 is out of your price range but fits this exactly.


----------



## axizor

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
Doesn't matter, currently on 800dpi MS IE3
What's your maximum budget?
$50
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, side buttons are a must, DPI buttons are ok but don't matter
What games do you play?
Mainly FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, little/no prediction please
Other relevant information:
MUST have decent scroll wheel. I love IE3s but the double left click issue and terrible scroll wheels are finally making me want to switch after many years.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kenikel*
> 
> I just want an inexpensive mouse with great and accurate sensor, with no jitters, skips, etc. that's it. Don't really want some fancy mouse. I am not really sure about my hand size, but I think the Abyssus is a bit tiny for me since my mouse is about the same size and my hand can't fit it. I lose control of my mouse really often because of that. I live in Australia so I may not be able to get my hands on some mice, CM Spawn, G100s for example and the price may be a bit different but I will try to find what you guys may suggest. Other than that, I guess I don't really my about the weight, shape, or cord and nobody wants wireless mice I guess.
> Actually been looking at the Abyssus( got a really good deal at the local store). I heard it got a really great sensor and stuff, but has really bad jitters sometimes. But the size is actually what worries me the most. Seems quite small for me. But I don't really mind getting it if that's my best bet.


It sounds like the Abyssus and G100s would both be too small for you then, they're about the size of a basic oem mouse.

If you don't mind 400 dpi see if you can find a WMO or other MLT-04 sensor mouse. They're cheap and have godly tracking, and at the sensitivity you play at you wont notice the negative accel.

If you can spend more and want something light weight but larger than an Abyssus try a Zowie FK or Savu. If you don't mind something heavier there's the EC2 and Mionix Avior (personally haven't tried that one though).


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axizor*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> Doesn't matter, currently on 800dpi MS IE3
> What's your maximum budget?
> $50
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, side buttons are a must, DPI buttons are ok but don't matter
> What games do you play?
> Mainly FPS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, little/no prediction please
> Other relevant information:
> MUST have decent scroll wheel. I love IE3s but the double left click issue and terrible scroll wheels are finally making me want to switch after many years.


IME3.0 has half the dpi you wrote (typo?). Shape-/feeling-wise Razer DeathAdder 2013 and Zowie EC1 eVo come closest to IME3.0.


----------



## guiJY

Hi all,
Could anyone help me pick a new mouse? Thanks in advance! I've considered the Roccat Savu and the Corsair M40

What's your grip style?
Claw
What's your sensitivity?
800dpi
What's your maximum budget?
$100 AUD
Do you want additional buttons?
Maybe. I have short fingers, so I'd like the thumb buttons to be close to the front.
What games do you play?
Mainly League of Legends
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes
Other relevant information:
I have really small hands. As in, I can barely reach an octave on a piano small. I also prefer a right-hand ergonomic mouse
Thank you!


----------



## Fur1on

Go for the Corsair M40.

It's a potent rodent.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guiJY*
> 
> Hi all,
> Could anyone help me pick a new mouse? Thanks in advance! I've considered the Roccat Savu and the Corsair M40
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100 AUD
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Maybe. I have short fingers, so I'd like the thumb buttons to be close to the front.
> What games do you play?
> Mainly League of Legends
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> I have really small hands. As in, I can barely reach an octave on a piano small. I also prefer a right-hand ergonomic mouse
> Thank you!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fur1on*
> 
> Go for the Corsair M40.
> 
> It's a potent rodent.


No get the M45 it's simply better.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guiJY*
> 
> Hi all,
> Could anyone help me pick a new mouse? Thanks in advance! I've considered the Roccat Savu and the Corsair M40
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100 AUD
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Maybe. I have short fingers, so I'd like the thumb buttons to be close to the front.
> What games do you play?
> Mainly League of Legends
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> I have really small hands. As in, I can barely reach an octave on a piano small. I also prefer a right-hand ergonomic mouse
> Thank you!


My suggestions: Roccat Kone Pure Optical, CM Storm Spawn


----------



## axizor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> IME3.0 has half the dpi you wrote (typo?). Shape-/feeling-wise Razer DeathAdder 2013 and Zowie EC1 eVo come closest to IME3.0.


No typo, just mistaken. Thanks for those suggestions but I've had terrible luck with Razer products regarding build quality. I've heard iffy things about Zowie too. Any other big palm grip mice out there? I wouldn't mind an extra thumb or pinky grip, similar to what the Qpad 5k or Logitech G700 has.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axizor*
> 
> No typo, just mistaken. Thanks for those suggestions but I've had terrible luck with Razer products regarding build quality. I've heard iffy things about Zowie too. Any other big palm grip mice out there? I wouldn't mind an extra thumb or pinky grip, similar to what the Qpad 5k or Logitech G700 has.


There's no perfect/flawless product line no matter which brand. If you're unlucky, you'll just end up with a faulty product. Regarding bigger size G502 might be also an option for you. People complain about weight, mouse wheel and something like that. I believe these things are personal preference.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axizor*
> 
> No typo, just mistaken. Thanks for those suggestions but I've had terrible luck with Razer products regarding build quality. I've heard iffy things about Zowie too. Any other big palm grip mice out there? I wouldn't mind an extra thumb or pinky grip, similar to what the Qpad 5k or Logitech G700 has.


Big, palm grip only. Mionix Naos 7000 is one.


----------



## axizor

Thanks, I'll look into these mice guys. I'm 6'2 and have really large hands and have always found palm gives me most control (grew up playing Quake 3, so this is important). The only other grip I use is fingertip, claw gripping makes me feel like I'm trying to move an actual mouse around my desk lol


----------



## Oneyed

What's your grip style?
fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
around 2000 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
sky is the limit
Do you want additional buttons?
2 at least
What games do you play?
mmo+fps+strategy
Do you mind about prediction?
i dont know nothing about this
Other relevant information:
right hand user , 20 cm from wrist to middlefinger tip , long hands , im using a g500 right now with fingertip grip , my hands tend to sweat when im killed in pvp sometimes.... hand base is in mousepad (QCK Heavy my favorite) , unconfortable in claw mode (pain) palm mode is not for me , i like to move fingers and wrist to move mouse , not entire arm , i used only a small portion of my enormous mousepad but i like it , need a DURABLE and precise mouse with no driver complaints , i only use logitech in my "gamer career" mx518 and now g500 but need something new and fressshhhhh
thanks in advance and sorry my english skills , not my native language


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oneyed*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> around 2000 dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> sky is the limit
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 at least
> What games do you play?
> mmo+fps+strategy
> Do you mind about prediction?
> i dont know nothing about this
> Other relevant information:
> right hand user , 20 cm from wrist to middlefinger tip , long hands , im using a g500 right now with fingertip grip , my hands tend to sweat when im killed in pvp sometimes.... hand base is in mousepad (QCK Heavy my favorite) , unconfortable in claw mode (pain) palm mode is not for me , i like to move fingers and wrist to move mouse , not entire arm , i used only a small portion of my enormous mousepad but i like it , need a DURABLE and precise mouse with no driver complaints , i only use logitech in my "gamer career" mx518 and now g500 but need something new and fressshhhhh
> thanks in advance and sorry my english skills , not my native language


I really hate how often I recommend this, but Mionix Avior 7000 fits all of this. I am also a fingertip gamer, but I play FPS primarily and this mouse has never let me down even once. Take a look at my full review thread, it should help you decide. It's not the biggest mouse in the world but it's about the size of a Sensei or Xai if you've ever used one. It has an incredibly precise optical sensor that should have no problem, and one of its many native CPI steps is indeed 2000.


----------



## Akaiba

What's your grip style?
*Finger or palm. Palm if the mouse is big enough (I have huge hands), but usually finger*
What's your sensitivity?
*Not sure to be honest. I think the deathadder (not 3.5) defaults to 1800?*
What's your maximum budget?
*I'd like to stay around $50-60 USD, but I'll go higher if its a good quality mouse. I live in the US.*
Do you want additional buttons?
*I'm used to 2 on the side and middle click. Less = no, more = useful, but not required*
What games do you play?
*Action, RPG, Some RTS, infrequent FPS*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes, keep it away or to a minimum*
Other relevant information:
*I have huge hands, so I need a big mouse.*
I'm posting this because the left click on my Deathadder is not clicking and/or holding (I can't drag 1/2 the time, or it starts to drag then loses grip), so I need a mouse really soon. As a side comment, if anyone knows how to fix that issue with the Deathadder, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

EDIT: I have a hard mousepad, if that impacts the suggestions at all - Mionix Propus 380.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akaiba*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Finger or palm. Palm if the mouse is big enough (I have huge hands), but usually finger*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Not sure to be honest. I think the deathadder (not 3.5) defaults to 1800?*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *I'd like to stay around $50-60 USD, but I'll go higher if its a good quality mouse. I live in the US.*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *I'm used to 2 on the side and middle click. Less = no, more = useful, but not required*
> What games do you play?
> *Action, RPG, Some RTS, infrequent FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Yes, keep it away or to a minimum*
> Other relevant information:
> *I have huge hands, so I need a big mouse.*
> I'm posting this because the left click on my Deathadder is not clicking and/or holding (I can't drag 1/2 the time, or it starts to drag then loses grip), so I need a mouse really soon. As a side comment, if anyone knows how to fix that issue with the Deathadder, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
> 
> EDIT: I have a hard mousepad, if that impacts the suggestions at all - Mionix Propus 380.


Mionix Naos 8200. The Naos 7000 is better but the liftoff distance will skyrocket. Since you aren't playing FPS at a high level, laser will be fine and will work very very well with that pad.


----------



## saphireangel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zigziglar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by janaso View Post
> 
> The Pyra is a mouse for fingertip grip users, but the person who asked uses palm grip, which means that the dimensions at the base of the mouse are inconsequential.
> 
> 
> 
> I realise Prya is designed for fingertip use, but if you have small hands it actually fits quite nicely into palm. In any case that was an old comment. My final recommendation was to try the Mico first then the Commatech M1, based on the fact that he palms 100mm length mice presently.
Click to expand...

My apologies zigziglar and janaso, the work monster basically consumed my last couple of weeks and I have not had time to look more into mice.... I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.







I'm contemplating between the Steel Series Kinzu v2 and the Zowie MiCo. But the Zowie Mico is pretty hard to purchase in the UK, am having difficult finding a buyer who's selling.

Is it advisable to use a mouse pad as well, with these gaming mice? I don't usually use mousepads, but just wondering if I ought to.

P.S.: I'm a she.


----------



## Freeze3371

I need something about as big and light as the abyssus, with at least just as good a sensor, 1800dpi option preferable.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freeze3371*
> 
> I need something about as big and light as the abyssus, with at least just as good a sensor, 1800dpi option preferable.


What's wrong with the abysus then? The Steelseries Kinzu V2 is similar, but different button shape and switches.


----------



## Freeze3371

It's got a shoddy build quality, and jitters a bit. Also the shape is not perfect.


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freeze3371*
> 
> It's got a shoddy build quality, and jitters a bit. Also the shape is not perfect.


My thoughts exactly, actually. The Kinzu may or may not be what you're looking for, but it's a different shape. More like a classic Microsoft shape. It's the same length as the Abysus, but the buttons are a part of the shell and aren't as easily depressed (which I personally prefer). The sensor is good too. At 1800dpi it feels pretty precise and smooth.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> My apologies zigziglar and janaso, the work monster basically consumed my last couple of weeks and I have not had time to look more into mice.... I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm contemplating between the Steel Series Kinzu v2 and the Zowie MiCo. But the Zowie Mico is pretty hard to purchase in the UK, am having difficult finding a buyer who's selling.
> 
> Is it advisable to use a mouse pad as well, with these gaming mice? I don't usually use mousepads, but just wondering if I ought to.
> 
> P.S.: I'm a she.


For the comfort it's cool to use mouse pads and should be more "compatible" with sensors than many "work surfaces" in general I think. Personally I have my 9HD hard pad on my old Goliathus Speed cloth pad (additional comfort).


----------



## zigziglar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saphireangel*
> 
> My apologies zigziglar and janaso, the work monster basically consumed my last couple of weeks and I have not had time to look more into mice.... I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm contemplating between the Steel Series Kinzu v2 and the Zowie MiCo. But the Zowie Mico is pretty hard to purchase in the UK, am having difficult finding a buyer who's selling.
> 
> Is it advisable to use a mouse pad as well, with these gaming mice? I don't usually use mousepads, but just wondering if I ought to.
> 
> P.S.: I'm a she.


Take it from me, the Kinzu is going to be too big for you hands - and the way the buttons are designed, you will end up frustrated at the miss-clicks from pressing the shell too far back for the clicks to register. Kinzu is not in the same category as the Mico, size-wise.

For Zowie gear, try http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/ or http://www.overclockers.co.uk/

-
Concerning mouse pads - yes it is advisable. No point having a mouse with a good sensor to have it tracking sub-optimally on a desk or whatever. I have used the Mico on both soft and hard mats and it tracks well on either. The two I have thoroughly tested it on are:

Soft - Artisan Hayate
Hard - Mionix Propus 380.

Both are highly acclaimed by reviewers, including myself. I'm sticking with the Propus 380 for now, due to my desk surface coming through the soft pad, but I think I preferred the Hayate by a small margin.


----------



## prosser13

What's your grip style?
*Claw*

What's your sensitivity?
*No idea. Been using MX510 for last ~6 years*

What's your maximum budget?
*$200*

Do you want additional buttons?
*Left side buttons are a must, anything else optional*

What games do you play?
*Some FPS but will mainly be used for office work*

Do you mind about prediction?
*Not really*

I've got fairly big hands so was thinking the Naos 8200?

EDIT: I've been using my MX510 without a mousepad (just a tablecloth over my desk), used to have a Steelseries metal mousepad but would be happy enough to use a heavy cloth (not metal) mousepad if the Naos 8200 needs it etc


----------



## L4dd

You might like the Avior/Naos 7000, DeathAdder 2013, or G502.


----------



## games2007

I've had the Steelseries Xai for a few years, but now the clicker is kinda broken (my own fault) and the scroll wheel gets jammed.
I'm looking for something $50 or less. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same type of mouse, but anything good for gaming and general use.
I think I'm more of a palm grip guy, but I do a bit of both palm/claw.


----------



## metal571

Don't get the Naos 8200, that is a laser mouse with inconsistent positive accel. You want the Naos 7000 for FPS gaming, and you'll also want to pick up a cloth pad.


----------



## hza

Why would you bloody want a cloth pad?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Why would you bloody want a cloth pad?


I actually prefer hard mats myself but two things had me going back to cloth:

1. 3310 sensors have horribly high LOD on many hard mats.
2. WAY too small for my 70cm/360 sensitivity. I tried on an MM400, just doesn't work.


----------



## hza

As I thought. So, you're initial statement is just generalization as both, LoD and sensitivity, are personal preference.


----------



## metal571

The 3310 tracks fine on hard mats, if you can deal with the LOD you're fine. It's just not optimal, it was clearly designed for cloth.


----------



## games2007

(Looking for best $50 mouse here)


----------



## Kenikel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> It sounds like the Abyssus and G100s would both be too small for you then, they're about the size of a basic oem mouse.
> 
> If you don't mind 400 dpi see if you can find a WMO or other MLT-04 sensor mouse. They're cheap and have godly tracking, and at the sensitivity you play at you wont notice the negative accel.
> 
> If you can spend more and want something light weight but larger than an Abyssus try a Zowie FK or Savu. If you don't mind something heavier there's the EC2 and Mionix Avior (personally haven't tried that one though).


Thanks for replying.
Unfortunately I could not find any of the mice you recommended. I think It's virtually impossible to find those Mycrosoft mice here. And Zowie FK and Savu are kinda too expensive for me. Also couldn't find the EC2 and Avior as well. So maybe some other mice? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Shisa

*1. What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?*
> base on 1200DPI @ window point speed = 6/11, and change around 400-600 DPI for tiny detail in 3D modeling, and texture.
*What's your maximum budget?*
> ~$100
*Do you want additional buttons?*
> Maybe yes, 1-2 buttons which can be simply used, but I don't mind about this.
*What games do you play?*
> I'm not hard gamer but need a mouse for 3D modeling.
Do you mind about prediction?
> No
*Other relevant information*
> I have average right hand size around 7.2 inches (182mm).
> Right now, I use Roccat LUA, but it has many problem like auto double click some time. Then I need new mouse.
> I play badminton every 2-3 days per week, mouse weight is maybe not a problem. I feel that Roccat LUA is too light and small.
> Mionix is not available in my country. (Logitech, SteelSeries, Razer, Roccat, CM Storm, GAMDIAS and Ttesports are available)
> I need to use a mouse that it has a good sensor for some sensitive 3D modeling like eye texture or eyelash.
> I worry about sensor so much, because my work is serious details in pixels.

I interest Logitech G502 so much, but worry its size and my grip style.
My second choice is Roccat Kone Pure or Pure Optical.

Thank you for supoort


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shisa*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> > Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> > base on 1200DPI @ window point speed = 6/11, and change around 400-600 DPI for tiny detail in 3D modeling, and texture.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> > ~$100
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> > Maybe yes, 1-2 buttons which can be simply used, but I don't mind about this.
> *What games do you play?*
> > I'm not hard gamer but need a mouse for 3D modeling.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> > No
> *Other relevant information*
> > I have average right hand size around 7.2 inches (182mm).
> > Right now, I use Roccat LUA, but it has many problem like auto double click some time. Then I need new mouse.
> > I play badminton every 2-3 days per week, mouse weight is maybe not a problem. I feel that Roccat LUA is too light and small.
> > Mionix is not available in my country. (Logitech, SteelSeries, Razer, Roccat, CM Storm, GAMDIAS and Ttesports are available)
> > I need to use a mouse that it has a good sensor for some sensitive 3D modeling like eye texture or eyelash.
> > I worry about sensor so much, because my work is serious details in pixels.
> 
> I interest Logitech G502 so much, but worry its size and my grip style.
> My second choice is Roccat Kone Pure or Pure Optical.
> 
> Thank you for supoort


Had a Kone Pure Optical. Everything was fine, only size was slightly too small. If it was bigger, it would have been my #1 mouse ever, but as it's smaller it shares second place with Xai.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shisa*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> > Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> > base on 1200DPI @ window point speed = 6/11, and change around 400-600 DPI for tiny detail in 3D modeling, and texture.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> > ~$100
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> > Maybe yes, 1-2 buttons which can be simply used, but I don't mind about this.
> *What games do you play?*
> > I'm not hard gamer but need a mouse for 3D modeling.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> > No
> *Other relevant information*
> > I have average right hand size around 7.2 inches (182mm).
> > Right now, I use Roccat LUA, but it has many problem like auto double click some time. Then I need new mouse.
> > I play badminton every 2-3 days per week, mouse weight is maybe not a problem. I feel that Roccat LUA is too light and small.
> > Mionix is not available in my country. (Logitech, SteelSeries, Razer, Roccat, CM Storm, GAMDIAS and Ttesports are available)
> > I need to use a mouse that it has a good sensor for some sensitive 3D modeling like eye texture or eyelash.
> > I worry about sensor so much, because my work is serious details in pixels.
> 
> I interest Logitech G502 so much, but worry its size and my grip style.
> My second choice is Roccat Kone Pure or Pure Optical.
> 
> Thank you for supoort


Yeah the Pure Optical should work pretty well. Stay away from laser mice if you are looking for sensor perfection.


----------



## hza

vcsel is not laser. Just because most people don't know the difference it doesn't mean you have to keep up to that.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> vcsel is not laser. Just because most people don't know the difference it doesn't mean you have to keep up to that.


Um, VCSEL means "vertical-cavity surface-emitting laser" that is the illumination for the Kone Pure's optical sensor if you REALLY want to get technical. But almost no one who is going to be asking questions on this thread knows that. Don't keep attacking me with bs like that. I refer to the 9500 and 9800 as laser sensors because that's what people know them as. Why not make other peoples' lives easier instead of adding additional confusion?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> vcsel is not laser. Just because most people don't know the difference it doesn't mean you have to keep up to that.


Actually... It is. It's right there in the name. Vertical Cavity surface emitting LASER.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Try the G602.


I just changed the batteries in mine for the first time ever, yesterday. Two solid months of 8+ hours a day of use on a single pair of batteries.

Godlike!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> I just changed the batteries in mine for the first time ever, yesterday. Two solid months of 8+ hours a day of use on a single pair of batteries.
> 
> Godlike!


That's pretty impressive.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Um, VCSEL means "vertical-cavity surface-emitting laser" that is the illumination for the Kone Pure's optical sensor if you REALLY want to get technical. But almost no one who is going to be asking questions on this thread knows that. Don't keep attacking me with bs like that. I refer to the 9500 and 9800 as laser sensors because that's what people know them as. Why not make other peoples' lives easier instead of adding additional confusion?


I thought you'll come up with that. I know you meant 9500 and whatnot. When I say laser mouse, I mean PTEs. ...and you know what I meant.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I thought you'll come up with that. I know you meant 9500 and whatnot. When I say laser mouse, I mean PTEs. ...and you know what I meant.


Except the PTE is not the same technology whatsoever as the LED or VCSEL illuminated opticals so there is obviously going to be confusion when people say laser mouse since they could mean PTE or VCSEL but that's just the way it is. I always make it clear the disadvantages of both technologies compared to LED lit sensing but for the general public, laser is just PTE or VCSEL. You don't have to test my knowledge, I've been on these forums long enough to know things like this...


----------



## hza

I did not test anything. I just said to stop with the confusion. You don't need to go into detail when telling people what's "good" or "bad" and you also don't need to say, let's say, things that are not 100 % precise. My last 2 cents on this.


----------



## jsx3

Both of you are off and lack clear understanding behind what has been stated.


----------



## Munashiimaru

What's your grip style? Palm

What's your sensitivity? OVER 9000! no... ~1000 DPI

What's your maximum budget? 50-100 (Higher, if there's a good reason)

Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons a must and either a tilting scroll wheel or at least four side buttons (would prefer the tilting scroll wheel).

What games do you play? Planning on playing Wildstar (twitchy MMO) a lot soon. Otherwise, I play just about everything including FPS's.

Do you mind about prediction? Kind of a noob when it comes to being selective about mice, but I'm inclined to avoid it.

Other relevant information:

I've been using the original microsoft sidewinder since 2008... (first one RMA'd just before 3 year warranty expiring due to clicker failing, second one still going)... I LOVE the way it fits in my hand and the way the side buttons vertically aligned, raised, and distinct. My mouse is getting a bit worn after all this time though and I'm thinking of replacing it.

I'd like to get one that has a tilting scroll wheel since I'm planning on getting really into Wildstar and it'd be really intuitive to map rolling in that game to a four direction scroll wheel. Barring that though I might consider a mouse that has 4+ side buttons if there just aren't good mice with that feature. I'd like to know I'm getting a mouse that has good sensors and software even though I don't usually pay attention to it as much as I should.

Thanks for any help provided ^.^


----------



## Shisa

Thank you for your recommendations.
I don't have knowledge of mice technologies, and i read below links, but i'm not clear understand.
http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide/0_30
http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_30
Can I ask something simply, I want to know "Why Logitech shows G502 is the best sensor at present"
From past to present, laser sensor isn't equal or close to optical sensor.

just only say "Yes, they are unequal" is enough.
Thank you so much.


----------



## hza

G502's sensor seems to have no acceleration, angle snapping and whatnot unlike all other sensors in the past. That sensor is Logitech exclusive for now. And yes, they are unequal, but it's still the human behind the mouse who wins or fails in a computer game or whatever else, so to speak. For your 3D modeling the Kone Pure Optical should be a very good solution, however.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munashiimaru*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity? OVER 9000! no... ~1000 DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget? 50-100 (Higher, if there's a good reason)
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons a must and either a tilting scroll wheel or at least four side buttons (would prefer the tilting scroll wheel).
> 
> What games do you play? Planning on playing Wildstar (twitchy MMO) a lot soon. Otherwise, I play just about everything including FPS's.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? Kind of a noob when it comes to being selective about mice, but I'm inclined to avoid it.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I've been using the original microsoft sidewinder since 2008... (first one RMA'd just before 3 year warranty expiring due to clicker failing, second one still going)... I LOVE the way it fits in my hand and the way the side buttons vertically aligned, raised, and distinct. My mouse is getting a bit worn after all this time though and I'm thinking of replacing it.
> 
> I'd like to get one that has a tilting scroll wheel since I'm planning on getting really into Wildstar and it'd be really intuitive to map rolling in that game to a four direction scroll wheel. Barring that though I might consider a mouse that has 4+ side buttons if there just aren't good mice with that feature. I'd like to know I'm getting a mouse that has good sensors and software even though I don't usually pay attention to it as much as I should.
> 
> Thanks for any help provided ^.^


Lots of side buttons you can find on Razer Naga (12, wired, wireless), Razer Naga Hex (6), Logitech G600 (12), Logitech G602 (6, wireless), Logitech G700/G700s (4, wireless). I only played some D3 with a G700 at a friend's place and it felt OK (ergonomics, performance). I "tried" out Naga, G600 and G602 in a electronics store. Naga and G600 felt a little bulky, G602 felt very very comfortable. Sensor performance of all those mice should be OK for WildStar or non-FPS games in general. If you're a "natural born skiller" I guess they're also very useful in FPS games as well, but that's a different story.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Both of you are off and lack clear understanding behind what has been stated.


then why don't you post a freaking guide already instead of telling everyone on this forum they're dumber than you?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shisa*
> 
> Thank you for your recommendations.
> I don't have knowledge of mice technologies, and i read below links, but i'm not clear understand.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide/0_30
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_30
> Can I ask something simply, I want to know "Why Logitech shows G502 is the best sensor at present"
> From past to present, laser sensor isn't equal or close to optical sensor.
> 
> just only say "Yes, they are unequal" is enough.
> Thank you so much.


G502 is not a laser sensor.

Also, those guides are incredibly old now and don't reflect what's out there at all. VCSEL sensors today as they are implemented have minor inconsistent positive accel but can track at 4 m/s just fine unlike the old lasers which had awful max PCSs. Opticals are still king, however. That has not changed.


----------



## fl0werAvA

What's your grip style?-Fingertip+palm

What's your sensitivity?800-1000

What's your maximum budget? 90

Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter as long as I won't click it accidently

What games do you play? Fps and a bit MOBA

Plz help me!!!!


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fl0werAvA*
> 
> What's your grip style?-Fingertip+palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?800-1000
> 
> What's your maximum budget? 90
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter as long as I won't click it accidently
> 
> What games do you play? Fps and a bit MOBA
> 
> Plz help me!!!!


Avior 7000, you might not like the right side buttons but you can disable them. 2nd best sensor on the market.

Logitech G502, all grips work with this mouse. Best sensor on the market.


----------



## Munashiimaru

Quote:


> Lots of side buttons you can find on Razer Naga (12, wired, wireless), Razer Naga Hex (6), Logitech G600 (12), Logitech G602 (6, wireless), Logitech G700/G700s (4, wireless). I only played some D3 with a G700 at a friend's place and it felt OK (ergonomics, performance). I "tried" out Naga, G600 and G602 in a electronics store. Naga and G600 felt a little bulky, G602 felt very very comfortable. Sensor performance of all those mice should be OK for WildStar or non-FPS games in general. If you're a "natural born skiller" I guess they're also very useful in FPS games as well, but that's a different story.


Thanks, after looking at my options I ordered a Naga 2014. Seems like it's the only high end mouse that actually has the tilt function. Guess, I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith, but I'm not an immensely picky person so it'll probably be fine. I just hope it fits my hand fine. I actually like my mice on the bulky side since I like most of my hand to rest on them. The sidewider is pretty big from what I understand, and I'm a woman my hands are pretty small : p


----------



## fl0werAvA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munashiimaru*
> 
> Thanks, after looking at my options I ordered a Naga 2014. Seems like it's the only high end mouse that actually has the tilt function. Guess, I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith, but I'm not an immensely picky person so it'll probably be fine. I just hope it fits my hand fine. I actually like my mice on the bulky side since I like most of my hand to rest on them. The sidewider is pretty big from what I understand, and I'm a woman my hands are pretty small : p


ru japanese?


----------



## Munashiimaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fl0werAvA*
> 
> ru japanese?


Nope, just a vague understanding of some words


----------



## fl0werAvA

Oh fair


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fl0werAvA*
> 
> What's your grip style?-Fingertip+palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?800-1000
> 
> What's your maximum budget? 90
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter as long as I won't click it accidently
> 
> What games do you play? Fps and a bit MOBA
> 
> Plz help me!!!!


SteelSeries Rival

Insane customization, can change the DPI by 10-50 (forget which)

Also is perfect for the palm/claw/fingertip hybrid styles as it has a large palm, but relatively small/slim buttons that have a great click feel and it's very light in weight. The weight allows you to control the whole mouse with just fingertips if that's what you want.

If you need a smaller mouse, then I recommend the Kinzu v2 which is getting great reviews.


----------



## Vorgier

What's your grip style? Fingertip grip.
What's your sensitivity? Currently 1800DPI with my Deathadder and feels very comfortable.
What's your maximum budget? 60~
Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are preferable.
What games do you play? MMOs, light FPS, other random assortment.
Do you mind about prediction? Eh.

I like my Deathadder. Was thinking about just buying another one because the right click is acting a little funky and my middle mouse button doesn't have the tactile click but still works. Also the scroll wheel often signals more "scroll bumps" than I actually scrolled, and can be quite annoying, but I would kind of like a few more side buttons. Wired is great, but (see below) will do wireless if it's appropriate. Right handed. Don't like ambidextrous mice.

Right now I'm hinging on the G602. I like the amount of side buttons for MMO's. A lot of the other Razer mice don't really appeal so much aside from the DA. I don't know if I really feel them. They're also kind of expensive compared to what Logitech has to offer. Outside of these two brands I don't have much experience.


----------



## Luxury4Play

*What's your grip style?* I currently use a netbook mouse... these are the specs of it. "Weight 64g - Dimensions 9.5 x 5.5 x 3.5 cm" so i only use finger tip i guess...its really small.

*What's your sensitivity?* i dont really know that...

*What's your maximum budget?* 130 euro max.

*Do you want additional buttons?* yes i do.

*What games do you play?* league of legends.

*Do you mind about prediction?* i dont really know what is this.

*Other relevant information:* i like razer ouroboros design. i dont mind wired or wireless, i want some cool leds in there also.


----------



## Munashiimaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Lots of side buttons you can find on Razer Naga (12, wired, wireless), Razer Naga Hex (6), Logitech G600 (12), Logitech G602 (6, wireless), Logitech G700/G700s (4, wireless). I only played some D3 with a G700 at a friend's place and it felt OK (ergonomics, performance). I "tried" out Naga, G600 and G602 in a electronics store. Naga and G600 felt a little bulky, G602 felt very very comfortable. Sensor performance of all those mice should be OK for WildStar or non-FPS games in general. If you're a "natural born skiller" I guess they're also very useful in FPS games as well, but that's a different story.


After walking into a bestbuy (why I didn't do this to start I don't know considering that's how I came to love the sidewinder), I'm actually really digging the way the g502 lays in my hand and the button placement; It also seemed to have wheel tilt although it didn't feel nearly as deliberate (not a good thing but maybe ok as long as I can manage it (I was pretty sure I could avoid accidental tilts when middle clicking on the naga after feeling it in store, not 100% sure on the g502). Thinking of returning the Naga 2014 I ordered before I open it and grabbing a g502 now...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munashiimaru*
> 
> After walking into a bestbuy (why I didn't do this to start I don't know considering that's how I came to love the sidewinder), I'm actually really digging the way the g502 lays in my hand and the button placement; It also seemed to have wheel tilt although it didn't feel nearly as deliberate (not a good thing but maybe ok as long as I can manage it (I was pretty sure I could avoid accidental tilts when middle clicking on the naga after feeling it in store, not 100% sure on the g502). Thinking of returning the Naga 2014 I ordered before I open it and grabbing a g502 now...


The G502 is an infinitely better mouse... Of course, I'm biased. I primarily use the G502 and hate the Naga with the fury of 1000 suns.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munashiimaru*
> 
> After walking into a bestbuy (why I didn't do this to start I don't know considering that's how I came to love the sidewinder), I'm actually really digging the way the g502 lays in my hand and the button placement; It also seemed to have wheel tilt although it didn't feel nearly as deliberate (not a good thing but maybe ok as long as I can manage it (I was pretty sure I could avoid accidental tilts when middle clicking on the naga after feeling it in store, not 100% sure on the g502). Thinking of returning the Naga 2014 I ordered before I open it and grabbing a g502 now...


Stick with whatever fits your hand better, whatever feels more comfortable for you (best way to go).


----------



## Hokum

What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw, but with a mixture of palm, claw and fingertip mouse movement
What's your sensitivity?
800-900
What's your maximum budget?
No concern
Do you want additional buttons?
Two thumbs
What games do you play?
FPS, RTS
Do you mind about prediction?
Not really
Other relevant information:
I have a hard time labling my grip; clawed fingers, with heel of palm resting on mousemat, fingertip movement for small adjustments adding wrist and then forearm for larger deflections. Having 3 monitors I also lift A LOT, but I do so even on one since it is a habit I have not gotten rid of since the ball mouse days.
Currently using an mx310 at work and naga hex at home, but since I have stopped MMOing I want a less complicated and lighter mouse for my gaming.
I have looked into the Avior 7000, but fear it might be to heavy. I have also looked into the roccat kone pure and g502 since I like the angled shape of palm mice, but with my sweaty hands I do not know how well that goes with the kone pure and since my hands are medium/small the logitech might be to big?


----------



## fl0werAvA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokum*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/claw, but with a mixture of palm, claw and fingertip mouse movement
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800-900
> What's your maximum budget?
> No concern
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Two thumbs
> What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really
> Other relevant information:
> I have a hard time labling my grip; clawed fingers, with heel of palm resting on mousemat, fingertip movement for small adjustments adding wrist and then forearm for larger deflections. Having 3 monitors I also lift A LOT, but I do so even on one since it is a habit I have not gotten rid of since the ball mouse days.
> Currently using an mx310 at work and naga hex at home, but since I have stopped MMOing I want a less complicated and lighter mouse for my gaming.
> 
> avior 7000 . Good ambi mouse for claw mix with palm
> I have looked into the Avior 7000, but fear it might be to heavy. I have also looked into the roccat kone pure and g502 since I like the angled shape of palm mice, but with my sweaty hands I do not know how well that goes with the kone pure and since my hands are medium/small the logitech might be to big?


----------



## Kroah

Hello all, i hope you could help me









*What's your grip style?*
Claw grip.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Around 2000 dpi.

*What's your maximum budget?*
100€

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Around 10.
I mainly use keyboard shortcuts, but some buttons could improve the game experience (open inventory, pickup items, ...).
I will certainly still binds primary keys to the keyboard (spells, dodge, ...)

*What games do you play?*
FPS (Hawken lastly), MOBA (LoL, Dota 2), MMORPG (GW2, Tera)

*Do you mind about prediction?*
My skill level is average, i don't know if i could notice it.

*Other relevant information:*
- I lift *a lot* the mouse because i don't have much space and i use a wrist rest.
So i would like a mouse which handles well the lift-off distance too.
- I'm used to the "Enhance pointer precision". Without it i couldn't play FPS considering the small space i have for the mouse.
- I have just bought a G600 MMO but, even with all its qualities, the weight (135g) is so much that i can't play more than 30mn without having wrist cramps.

My actual mouse (a basic Dell mouse) is 90g and its weight and grip is perfect for me.
I like its basic symmetric shape because i can lift it easily (and without mis-pressing any buttons) but its lift-off distance is terrible (9mm !) whatever the pad surface is.

Looking reviews and posts in several forums, it seems the Avior 7000 could be the answer.
But how is this mouse with claw-grip + many lifts ?

Thank you for your help,
Pascal


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokum*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/claw, but with a mixture of palm, claw and fingertip mouse movement
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800-900
> What's your maximum budget?
> No concern
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Two thumbs
> What games do you play?
> FPS, RTS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really
> Other relevant information:
> I have a hard time labling my grip; clawed fingers, with heel of palm resting on mousemat, fingertip movement for small adjustments adding wrist and then forearm for larger deflections. Having 3 monitors I also lift A LOT, but I do so even on one since it is a habit I have not gotten rid of since the ball mouse days.
> Currently using an mx310 at work and naga hex at home, but since I have stopped MMOing I want a less complicated and lighter mouse for my gaming.
> I have looked into the Avior 7000, but fear it might be to heavy. I have also looked into the roccat kone pure and g502 since I like the angled shape of palm mice, but with my sweaty hands I do not know how well that goes with the kone pure and since my hands are medium/small the logitech might be to big?


Zowie FK then.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kroah*
> 
> Hello all, i hope you could help me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw grip.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Around 2000 dpi.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 100€
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Around 10.
> I mainly use keyboard shortcuts, but some buttons could improve the game experience (open inventory, pickup items, ...).
> I will certainly still binds primary keys to the keyboard (spells, dodge, ...)
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> FPS (Hawken lastly), MOBA (LoL, Dota 2), MMORPG (GW2, Tera)
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> My skill level is average, i don't know if i could notice it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> - I lift *a lot* the mouse because i don't have much space and i use a wrist rest.
> So i would like a mouse which handles well the lift-off distance too.
> - I'm used to the "Enhance pointer precision". Without it i couldn't play FPS considering the small space i have for the mouse.
> - I have just bought a G600 MMO but, even with all its qualities, the weight (135g) is so much that i can't play more than 30mn without having wrist cramps.
> 
> My actual mouse (a basic Dell mouse) is 90g and its weight and grip is perfect for me.
> I like its basic symmetric shape because i can lift it easily (and without mis-pressing any buttons) but its lift-off distance is terrible (9mm !) whatever the pad surface is.
> 
> Looking reviews and posts in several forums, it seems the Avior 7000 could be the answer.
> But how is this mouse with claw-grip + many lifts ?
> 
> Thank you for your help,
> Pascal


The Avior isn't that much heavier it's only 100 g. It is very easy to lift because it gives you plenty of leverage on the sides.


----------



## Luxury4Play

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* I currently use a netbook mouse... these are the specs of it. "Weight 64g - Dimensions 9.5 x 5.5 x 3.5 cm" so i only use finger tip i guess...its really small.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* i dont really know that...
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* 130 euro max.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* yes i do.
> 
> *What games do you play?* league of legends.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* i dont really know what is this.
> 
> *Other relevant information:* i like razer ouroboros design. i dont mind wired or wireless, i want some cool leds in there also.


Nobody?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> Nobody?


Fingertip, try avior 7k. Or G502 (but bigger mouse).


----------



## Luxury4Play

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Fingertip, try avior 7k. Or G502 (but bigger mouse).


since i cant find mionix products here in greece, and i dont like ordering from internet if i cant see the product, what else like the logitech g502 can i find ? same quality etc. Razer naga or no way?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> since i cant find mionix products here in greece, and i dont like ordering from internet if i cant see the product, what else like the logitech g502 can i find ? same quality etc. Razer naga or no way?


Looked into Roccat Kone Pure Optical? Since it's a smaller and lighter mouse than G502 it could be more useful with fingertip grip.


----------



## Kroah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Avior isn't that much heavier it's only 100 g. It is very easy to lift because it gives you plenty of leverage on the sides.


Thank you for your reply.

I've read in another thread you are lifting the mouse a lot.
Do you have already tried the Zowie FK to see if their weight difference (~15g) makes the lift harder and more tiring after several hours of gaming (according to their respective shape) ?
Both mouses seem great and i'm really undecided which one fit best my grip (which in fact is more a fingertips grip i think).


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kroah*
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> I've read in another thread you are lifting the mouse a lot.
> Do you have already tried the Zowie FK to see if their weight difference (~15g) makes the lift harder and more tiring after several hours of gaming (according to their respective shape) ?
> Both mouses seem great and i'm really undecided which one fit best my grip (which in fact is more a fingertips grip i think).


Indeed the FK is less fatiguing over long gameplay sessions however another problem creeps up on me when I use it which is that the middle is just so thin and I think it cramps my hand slightly because the mouse isn't very wide.

Here's a question for other people, especially Zowie whores like Divine lol...should I try the AM then instead?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Indeed the FK is less fatiguing over long gameplay sessions however another problem creeps up on me when I use it which is that the middle is just so thin and I think it cramps my hand slightly because the mouse isn't very wide.
> 
> Here's a question for other people, especially Zowie whores like Divine lol...should I try the AM then instead?


I have never tried the FK but AM is also very narrow.


----------



## kyismaster

#lovemyavoir7000 #thanks #mousethreadftw


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## kremtok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> #lovemyavoir7000 #thanks #mousethreadftw
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Glad you like it Brony! I'm very seriously regretting my choice to go with the Avior. Those right side buttons seriously mess me up. I might get rid of it soon and go for the Naos.

Oh and quit it with the #poundsigns!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> #lovemyavoir7000 #thanks #mousethreadftw
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Glad to see a fellow Avior user very satisfied.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kremtok*
> 
> Glad you like it Brony! I'm very seriously regretting my choice to go with the Avior. Those right side buttons seriously mess me up. I might get rid of it soon and go for the Naos.
> 
> Oh and quit it with the #poundsigns!


I guess you aren't a fingertip grip cause only when I palm the mouse do I really feel the side buttons. But they never dig into my hand or anything. I guess it bothers some people more than others.


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Glad to see a fellow Avior user very satisfied.
> I guess you aren't a fingertip grip cause only when I palm the mouse do I really feel the side buttons. But they never dig into my hand or anything. I guess it bothers some people more than others.


Lol i use claw grip and the only button i press is the front right side button so i dissable it, otherwise its golden


----------



## xNutella

does the G9x have the same sensor of the corsair M45. if not could someone tell me what they are?.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNutella*
> 
> does the G9x have the same sensor of the corsair M45. if not could someone tell me what they are?.


G9X - ADNS-9500. Very flawed sensor due to inconsistent positive acceleration.
M45 - PMW3310. 1:1 optical sensor with a higher PCS than the 9500 and (some say) very slight acceleration, but it is CONSISTENT if it is present at all.

Some say the M45 has the worst 3310 implementation though with extra input lag that isn't there in mice like the Rival or Avior. I don't know, haven't tried it yet myself but my Avior is my primary mouse right now and I couldn't be happier with it.


----------



## xNutella

thanks metal571 aka mouse guru







. so what's the legendary sensor then?. I have always thought that the G9x is the best in the market.


----------



## X-PREDATOR

if i may..
CM storm Sentinal ADV and ADVii user myself for over a year and two years..never had a issue with either of them besides the ADVii that ddnt want to install on my Windows 8.1 X64bit ENT


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNutella*
> 
> thanks metal571 aka mouse guru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . so what's the legendary sensor then?. I have always thought that the G9x is the best in the market.


I've earned that title already? I've only been on here for a couple months but man oh man I have loved mice for a lot longer than that. I am still of the opinion that they can make or break a player, and no matter how good they are they can always be better with a better mouse. Very important stuff for me, an FPS player who likes to win.

Some say the MLT04 used in the legendary WMO 1.1A, IE 3.0, and IO1.1 is the best. Basically no input latency, but limited 1.5 m/s max perfect control speed as long as you overclock the polling rate.

For a long time the "holy grail" of OCN was the 3090 sensor though. 3-4 m/s, low input latency with 3500 CPI SROMs in Logitech implementations or whatever Zowie is using in their mouse, and enough CPI to get you along.

I think the 3310 has further surpassed that. It offers a shocking 5.4 m/s max PCS and up to 5000 CPI with completely native steps between 50-5000 in increments of 50. It's unheard of to have this in an optical.

The 3366 used in only the G502 beats that even, with a completely unnecessary 7+ m/s PCS and 12000 max native CPI.

The G9X is using a flawed VCSEL sensor, the same one in the Xai and Sensei. I know because I had a Sensei and tried to get used to it and eventually gave up. As soon as I got used to optical again, I know for a fact that I'm never going back to using a 9500 or 9800 mouse.


----------



## xNutella

interesting. me and one of my friends are G9x whore due to its shape and the way you hold it (super nice), which gaming mice that uses 3090/3310 sensors you suggest?, but it has to look so close to my current G9x.



I would invite you for a cigar if you live nearby and talk about gaming mouse hehe


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNutella*
> 
> interesting. me and one of my friends are G9x whore due to its shape and the way you hold it (super nice), which gaming mice that uses 3090/3310 sensors you suggest?, but it has to look so close to my current G9x.
> 
> 
> 
> I would invite you for a cigar if you live nearby and talk about gaming mouse hehe


That's pretty hard to find outside of the M45.

If you're in Philly, I'm down...lol


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNutella*
> 
> interesting. me and one of my friends are G9x whore due to its shape and the way you hold it (super nice), which gaming mice that uses 3090/3310 sensors you suggest?, but it has to look so close to my current G9x.


transplant G502 internals to G9x?


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

I have done this a few times now, with no responses...a little different this time though...

What's your grip style?

A mix of palm and fingertip.

What's your sensitivity?

2000 cpi

What's your maximum budget?

None, but cheaper the better, as I just want the guts.

Do you want additional buttons?

Preferably 2 or less...I have grown used to the G5 and it's mouse wheel with mouse3, and 4-way scrolling.

What games do you play?

Everything...but still play a lot of COD 4...Unreal Tournament...Quake 3...mostly FPS.

Do you mind about prediction?

I'm not even sure, I want to say yes, but I think my G5 had prediction...and yeah.

Other relevant information:

I am tired of searching for the right mouse...I was using a G5 for so long, I am having a hard time getting used to anything else. I think I just want to "franken-mouse" my G5 with...something...that's what I need to figure out, I guess. I've used several mice, am trying to use a CM Storm Spawn right now...grown used to the claw grip on it fairly easily, but being unable to do anything outside of 800/1800/3500
cpi steps is unacceptable for my main PC, which is also my gaming PC. I need something with a good sensor, that is reasonably cheap, that I can swap the internals into my G5 shell. Luckily the G5 is fairly big, and probably fairly light once it's gutted. I need something that has minimal buttons, can set custom cpi steps in software, or at least have a 400-ish cpi step.

I do a bit of graphic related work, quite a bit actually, and need something that is as reliable at low cpi in, say, G.I.M.P., as it is for gaming. Doesn't have to be fancy, just low jitter for graphics, and a 2000 cpi step...not sure if I am missing anything...I don't think I like the sensor in the Storm Spawn, but it's tough to say without having the 2000 cpi step.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> I have done this a few times now, with no responses...a little different this time though...
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> A mix of palm and fingertip.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 2000 cpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> None, but cheaper the better, as I just want the guts.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Preferably 2 or less...I have grown used to the G5 and it's mouse wheel with mouse3, and 4-way scrolling.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> Everything...but still play a lot of COD 4...Unreal Tournament...Quake 3...mostly FPS.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I'm not even sure, I want to say yes, but I think my G5 had prediction...and yeah.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I am tired of searching for the right mouse...I was using a G5 for so long, I am having a hard time getting used to anything else. I think I just want to "franken-mouse" my G5 with...something...that's what I need to figure out, I guess. I've used several mice, am trying to use a CM Storm Spawn right now...grown used to the claw grip on it fairly easily, but being unable to do anything outside of 800/1800/3500
> cpi steps is unacceptable for my main PC, which is also my gaming PC. I need something with a good sensor, that is reasonably cheap, that I can swap the internals into my G5 shell. Luckily the G5 is fairly big, and probably fairly light once it's gutted. I need something that has minimal buttons, can set custom cpi steps in software, or at least have a 400-ish cpi step.
> 
> I do a bit of graphic related work, quite a bit actually, and need something that is as reliable at low cpi in, say, G.I.M.P., as it is for gaming. Doesn't have to be fancy, just low jitter for graphics, and a 2000 cpi step...not sure if I am missing anything...I don't think I like the sensor in the Storm Spawn, but it's tough to say without having the 2000 cpi step.


Roccat Kone Pure (Optical) could work with your grips since it's a fairly small mouse, but not too small. Or you just buy a Logitech G500/G500s, if they're still available in your country/region (G500 very probably not). Best way to determine grips would be to go to a electronics/computer store and try out, if you'd like ergonomics.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> I have done this a few times now, with no responses...a little different this time though...
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> A mix of palm and fingertip.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 2000 cpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> None, but cheaper the better, as I just want the guts.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Preferably 2 or less...I have grown used to the G5 and it's mouse wheel with mouse3, and 4-way scrolling.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> Everything...but still play a lot of COD 4...Unreal Tournament...Quake 3...mostly FPS.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I'm not even sure, I want to say yes, but I think my G5 had prediction...and yeah.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I am tired of searching for the right mouse...I was using a G5 for so long, I am having a hard time getting used to anything else. I think I just want to "franken-mouse" my G5 with...something...that's what I need to figure out, I guess. I've used several mice, am trying to use a CM Storm Spawn right now...grown used to the claw grip on it fairly easily, but being unable to do anything outside of 800/1800/3500
> cpi steps is unacceptable for my main PC, which is also my gaming PC. I need something with a good sensor, that is reasonably cheap, that I can swap the internals into my G5 shell. Luckily the G5 is fairly big, and probably fairly light once it's gutted. I need something that has minimal buttons, can set custom cpi steps in software, or at least have a 400-ish cpi step.
> 
> I do a bit of graphic related work, quite a bit actually, and need something that is as reliable at low cpi in, say, G.I.M.P., as it is for gaming. Doesn't have to be fancy, just low jitter for graphics, and a 2000 cpi step...not sure if I am missing anything...I don't think I like the sensor in the Storm Spawn, but it's tough to say without having the 2000 cpi step.


Without any modification, I think you'd really like the Mionix Avior 7000. It's worth the cash if you ask me, but maybe I'm biased because I own one.

I actually started on the G5, moved to an MX518, G400, G400s. I realized how much I HATE that shape because it forces your pinky and thumb only to lift the mouse, your ring ends up on top next to RMB. I hated it and I don't know why I ever continued to use that shape.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure (Optical) could work with your grips since it's a fairly small mouse, but not too small. Or you just buy a Logitech G500/G500s, if they're still available in your country/region (G500 very probably not). Best way to determine grips would be to go to a electronics/computer store and try out, if you'd like ergonomics.


Unfortunately, the only decent local store is Canada Computers, and everything is in shell packaging. No way to try before I buy. And sometimes, initial impressions can be deceiving...it's how I chose my Storm Spawn, and it's a cramp factory after long term use. My hands are large, so I really am iffy about going smaller than the G5...I have looked at the Roccat Kone Pure Optical though...it's one of few I have been eyeing, actually.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Without any modification, I think you'd really like the Mionix Avior 7000. It's worth the cash if you ask me, but maybe I'm biased because I own one.
> 
> I actually started on the G5, moved to an MX518, G400, G400s. I realized how much I HATE that shape because it forces your pinky and thumb only to lift the mouse, your ring ends up on top next to RMB. I hated it and I don't know why I ever continued to use that shape.


I have actually been eyeing that mouse for awhile now...might pick one up just for the heck of it. I can no longer find the G500/500S locally. Been looking at the G400s, but can't stand the stupid graphics all over the shell...I keep coming back to the Avior/Naos...my hand size makes the G5 a fingertip mouse, I only rest the area beneath my knuckles from time to time. The "heel" of my palm sits an inch or two behind the mouse...so basically, I need a large mouse or my hands cramp up real fast. Also, I rarely lift the mouse, since I like high sensitivity+fingertip. And my grip with the G5, my middle finger rests on/operates the mouse wheel, and my ring finger rests on/operates mouse2. I like it that way...one of my pet peeves with my CM Storm Spawn is that it forces you to use the middle finger for mouse2/mouse3/mouse wheel...never seem to have my finger in the right position.

Anyway...checked around locally, and I can no longer find anything from Mionix...and the Kone Pure Optical is out of stock at the moment. I'll keep an eye out, but I think I might just pick up the Kone Pure Optical when it gets back in stock. $70 plus tax, so I am hoping it's something I will stick with. I paid more than that for my G5 back in the day though, and it turned out to be one of my most long lived computer-related purchases ever.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> Unfortunately, the only decent local store is Canada Computers, and everything is in shell packaging. No way to try before I buy. And sometimes, initial impressions can be deceiving...it's how I chose my Storm Spawn, and it's a cramp factory after long term use. My hands are large, so I really am iffy about going smaller than the G5...I have looked at the Roccat Kone Pure Optical though...it's one of few I have been eyeing, actually.
> I have actually been eyeing that mouse for awhile now...might pick one up just for the heck of it. I can no longer find the G500/500S locally. Been looking at the G400s, but can't stand the stupid graphics all over the shell...I keep coming back to the Avior/Naos...my hand size makes the G5 a fingertip mouse, I only rest the area beneath my knuckles from time to time. The "heel" of my palm sits an inch or two behind the mouse...so basically, I need a large mouse or my hands cramp up real fast. Also, I rarely lift the mouse, since I like high sensitivity+fingertip. And my grip with the G5, my middle rests on/operates the mouse wheel, and my ring finger rests on/operates mouse2. I like it that way...one of my pet peeves with my CM Storm Spawn is that it forces you to use the middle finger for mouse2/mouse3/mouse wheel...never seem to have my finger in the right position.
> 
> Anyway...checked around locally, and I can no longer find anything from Mionix...and the Kone Pure Optical is out of stock at the moment. I'll keep an eye out, but I think I might just pick up the Kone Pure Optical when it gets back in stock. $70 plus tax, so I am hoping it's something I will stick with. I paid more than that for my G5 back in the day though, and it turned out to be one of my most long lived computer-related purchases ever.


KPO is good, not a perfect sensor though cause IIRC it is using the 4000 CPI SROM which means some additional input latency. That may or may not matter to you. The Mionix mice have better sensors. It's unlikely you'll see them in stores. Here in the US I usually just recommend people buy from Amazon and then they can always do an easy return if they don't like the mouse.


----------



## TK421

Metal, you said that you own the Zowie G-TF pad? How would you compare the speed, glide resistance, control and sweat resistance to a QCK+?

And is the surface soft when you press it? My V8 has problems with surfaces that "sink" even slightly because of the different lens setup.

Is this the correct amazon link to buy it?: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-SPEED--Sport-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B006VK8P5U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401131298&sr=8-1&keywords=zowie+g-tf

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> KPO is good, not a perfect sensor though cause IIRC it is using the 4000 CPI SROM which means some additional input latency. That may or may not matter to you. The Mionix mice have better sensors. It's unlikely you'll see them in stores. Here in the US I usually just recommend people buy from Amazon and then they can always do an easy return if they don't like the mouse.


I tend not to order anything online as I do not have a credit card...and I've also had a few bad experiences with shipping. Anyway...

From what is in stock at the store I shop at, a few caught my eye...are any of these worth a try?

Razer DeathAdder 2013 4G - $64.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=056317
Steelseries Rival - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=065477
ZOWIE GEAR EC1 eVo - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=054959
Corsair Raptor M40 - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=061198
Corsair Raptor M45 - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=068866
Corsair Raptor M30 - $49.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=061194

Oh, and they have the CM Storm Xornet on for $20, was thinking I could pick that up, since it is basically a slightly gimped Spawn with the 2000 cpi step I am looking for. If I like the feel of the sensor, it would be a great candidate to rip the guts out of for my G5 shell...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Metal, you said that you own the Zowie G-TF pad? How would you compare the speed, glide resistance, control and sweat resistance to a QCK+?
> 
> And is the surface soft when you press it? My V8 has problems with surfaces that "sink" even slightly because of the different lens setup.
> 
> Is this the correct amazon link to buy it?: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-SPEED--Sport-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B006VK8P5U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401131298&sr=8-1&keywords=zowie+g-tf
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Much faster. Between the MM400 and QcK in speed I'd say. A harder rougher surface that is still bendable like a cloth mat though. Don't know about sweat resistance I don't really pay attention to it but I never really had a problem with it on the G-TF. Definitely much less sinking effect than other cloth pads because it's much more rigid of a surface. And yeah that's the right link.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> I tend not to order anything online as I do not have a credit card...and I've also had a few bad experiences with shipping. Anyway...
> 
> From what is in stock at the store I shop at, a few caught my eye...are any of these worth a try?
> 
> Razer DeathAdder 2013 4G - $64.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=056317
> Steelseries Rival - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=065477
> ZOWIE GEAR EC1 eVo - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=054959
> Corsair Raptor M40 - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=061198
> Corsair Raptor M45 - $59.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=068866
> Corsair Raptor M30 - $49.99 - http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_279_275&item_id=061194
> 
> Oh, and they have the CM Storm Xornet on for $20, was thinking I could pick that up, since it is basically a slightly gimped Spawn with the 2000 cpi step I am looking for. If I like the feel of the sensor, it would be a great candidate to rip the guts out of for my G5 shell...


Honestly I would go with the EC1. Awesome mouse but unfortunately that's going to have limited CPI steps. I would try the Rival then, that has the same sensor as the Avior and the M45. I keep hearing that the M45 has laggier tracking than the other 3310 mice though.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Honestly I would go with the EC1. Awesome mouse but unfortunately that's going to have limited CPI steps. I would try the Rival then, that has the same sensor as the Avior and the M45. I keep hearing that the M45 has laggier tracking than the other 3310 mice though.


I am thinking I could get used to the 450/2300 cpi steps versus the 400/2000 I am used to, but I don't want to be wrong about that...guess I will try the Rival for now and see how I like it. Thanks guys.


----------



## Joephis19

1. What's your grip style?

Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?

Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?

50ish USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?

A couple additional buttons would be nice, but not necessary.

5. What games do you play?

Diablo 3, MMO's, Skyrim

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Never had a mouse with it, so I don't know. As long as it can be turned off, i wouldn't mind trying it.

7. Other relevant information:

Prefer wired. Prefer mice that have the...i dunno, cutout or notch maybe...for my thumb to rest on.


----------



## kremtok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I guess you aren't a fingertip grip cause only when I palm the mouse do I really feel the side buttons. But they never dig into my hand or anything. I guess it bothers some people more than others.


What makes a fingertip grip? It's not explained in the OP here and when I researched it, that's the answer that I came up with. Then again, I never did get any responses from my request post...

Right now the problem is that I use my first finger on the left click and my second finger on the right click. That leaves my third and fourth fingers on the right side of the mouse, which was never a problem when there weren't buttons on that side.


----------



## X-PREDATOR

grip style ; claw mixed with a very large thumb/pinky finger grip on opposite side
dpi: desktop & in game 3200 to 4000..in game settings in all games @ 60 -70% speed with mouse acceleration disabled


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kremtok*
> 
> What makes a fingertip grip? It's not explained in the OP here and when I researched it, that's the answer that I came up with. Then again, I never did get any responses from my request post...
> 
> Right now the problem is that I use my first finger on the left click and my second finger on the right click. That leaves my third and fourth fingers on the right side of the mouse, which was never a problem when there weren't buttons on that side.


I float my hand above the surface and only grip the mouse with my fingers.

The right side buttons never get in the way no matter what grip you use, but you might feel them jutting out a bit with the longer part of your fingers. Accidental presses weren't an issue for me and the right side buttons are disabled by default anyway.

That's with the Avior in mind here


----------



## LazarusIV

Hi everyone! I've been thinking about getting a new mouse lately since my Logitech G9 is showing its age, but from what I've heard it's a pretty amazing mouse? Anywho, here's the 4-1-1:

1) What's your grip style? I'm not hugely versed in mouse lingo but I believe I use a palm grip. I rest my whole hand on the mouse when I use it.

2) What's your sensitivity? Again, not hugely knowledgable but I have been setting my default DPI around 1600 to 1800. Maybe a touch higher in some games.

3) What's your maximum budget? The most I'd be willing to spend would be $60, maybe $75 if someone found the perfect mouse for me.

4) Do you want additional buttons? Yes please. I tend to use just about all the available buttons as long as it's not an MMO mouse with 4,880,930,043 extra buttons. I def use the thumb buttons so 2 or 3 of those would be great and I use button 3, the mouse wheel click. I wouldn't cry about a couple or so extra buttons besides that, as long as they don't get in the way.

5) What games do you play? BF4, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Starbound, Terraria, Civ V, Borderlands, etc. A lot of RPGs, crafting / exploration, and 4X games, basically.

6) Do you mind about prediction? No prediction please, I don't want any "corrections"

7) Other relevant information: I prefer wired and a braided cord, but that's just because my G9 has a braided cord and it has stood the test of time. I really like my G9, I'm really open to any suggestions, though.

Thanks all, I appreciate the help!


----------



## ThornTwist

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? customized for different operations.
What's your maximum budget? 100$
Do you want additional buttons? yes, lots and lots
What games do you play? RGGs, Action, Adventure, Racing (probably doesn't apply since I have a racing wheel)
Do you mind about prediction? I don't even know what that means
Other relevant information:
So it seems people are not a fan of the Razer franchise so something other than razer would be good. Also do ([Edit] NOT) want a RAT. Customization is key.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Hi everyone! I've been thinking about getting a new mouse lately since my Logitech G9 is showing its age, but from what I've heard it's a pretty amazing mouse? Anywho, here's the 4-1-1:
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? I'm not hugely versed in mouse lingo but I believe I use a palm grip. I rest my whole hand on the mouse when I use it.
> 
> 2) What's your sensitivity? Again, not hugely knowledgable but I have been setting my default DPI around 1600 to 1800. Maybe a touch higher in some games.
> 
> 3) What's your maximum budget? The most I'd be willing to spend would be $60, maybe $75 if someone found the perfect mouse for me.
> 
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? Yes please. I tend to use just about all the available buttons as long as it's not an MMO mouse with 4,880,930,043 extra buttons. I def use the thumb buttons so 2 or 3 of those would be great and I use button 3, the mouse wheel click. I wouldn't cry about a couple or so extra buttons besides that, as long as they don't get in the way.
> 
> 5) What games do you play? BF4, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Starbound, Terraria, Civ V, Borderlands, etc. A lot of RPGs, crafting / exploration, and 4X games, basically.
> 
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? No prediction please, I don't want any "corrections"
> 
> 7) Other relevant information: I prefer wired and a braided cord, but that's just because my G9 has a braided cord and it has stood the test of time. I really like my G9, I'm really open to any suggestions, though.
> 
> Thanks all, I appreciate the help!


We've actually been searching for a mouse that would replicate the G9/G9X feel, but the closest we've come is the Corsair M45. Great sensor, great shape, fairly reliable. We've had some people state that they feel it's a touch laggy, but hopefully Corsair will sort that out through firmware updates.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? customized for different operations.
> What's your maximum budget? 100$
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, lots and lots
> What games do you play? RGGs, Action, Adventure, Racing (probably doesn't apply since I have a racing wheel)
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't even know what that means
> Other relevant information:
> So it seems people are not a fan of the Razer franchise so something other than razer would be good. Also do want a RAT. Customization is key.


Palm with lots of buttons:

Great sensors:
Logitech G502
Logitech G602 - Wireless

Okay sensors:
Logitech G600
Corsair M95

Okay sensor and wireless:
Logitech G700

Questionable sensors:
RAT MMO
Razer Naga


----------



## ThornTwist

Much thanks.


----------



## ThornTwist

So if I'm going for an all logitech type thing (mouse, key board and Keypad) what do you recommend? Budget: $300.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So if I'm going for an all logitech type thing (mouse, key board and Keypad) what do you recommend? Budget: $300.


Logitech G502: $80
Logitech G13: $70
Logitech G710+: $130

If you want to avoid the G502 launch problems like the mouse feet, then you can shave some money off by looking at the G602 or the G400.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> We've actually been searching for a mouse that would replicate the G9/G9X feel, but the closest we've come is the Corsair M45. Great sensor, great shape, fairly reliable. We've had some people state that they feel it's a touch laggy, but hopefully Corsair will sort that out through firmware updates.


Hm, maybe I should count my blessings and keep the G9 for as long as I can then. I've heard some back and forth about optical vs laser, what's the deal with that? Is optical better than laser? I had thought the opposite...


----------



## ThornTwist

REP +


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Hm, maybe I should count my blessings and keep the G9 for as long as I can then. I've heard some back and forth about optical vs laser, what's the deal with that? Is optical better than laser? I had thought the opposite...


Yes. In almost all categories Optical is better than laser. The two laser sensors have inherent flaws that cannot be corrected by software. The PTE sensors have a high failure rate (they lose one of the tracking axis), they are SUPER sensitive to vibration and dust, and they have a z-axis bug that causes the cursor to move up and to the left every single time you lift the mouse. I hate this sensor with a passion... If you couldn't tell.

The ADNS9500/ADNS9800 sensors have a 5% random acceleration baked into the sensor. This means that no matter what, the cursor will NEVER land where you want it to two times in a row on snap movements. The upside to this sensor is that it has a ton of features, doesn't care about the surface it's used on, and is reliable. This is the sensor in your G9/G9x.

Optical sensors vary, obviously, but modern optical sensors have no prediction, no/light acceleration, tons of features, high possible DPI, and are rock solid reliable. The downsides are they can be sensitive to surfaces (color/texture/consistency), and some say they've noticed an over-processed feeling of the cursor on higher DPI models, as well as inconsistent read speeds from a dead stop. These last couple things are VERY minute... Some people are either not bothered by them, or can't feel them at all. I'm glad to be one of those that adapt to them very easily.


----------



## soren123

Hi everyone, my Microsoft sidewinder x8 is beginning to break on me so I need to begin the search for a new mouse.

What's your grip style?
Fingertip mostly + palm
What's your sensitivity?
Currently 1000 dpi, but I'm sure I can adjust to a bit higher.
What's your maximum budget?
No budget, but preferably under $200
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, at least 2
What games do you play?
Primarily Dota 2.
Do you mind about prediction?
As long as I can disable it, I have no preference.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soren123*
> 
> Hi everyone, my Microsoft sidewinder x8 is beginning to break on me so I need to begin the search for a new mouse.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip mostly + palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> Currently 1000 dpi, but I'm sure I can adjust to a bit higher.
> What's your maximum budget?
> No budget, but preferably under $200
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, at least 2
> What games do you play?
> Primarily Dota 2.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> As long as I can disable it, I have no preference.


I think the Mionix Avior 7000 will tick all of your boxes.


----------



## anodizingstatic

*LOOKING* for a mouse that can edit well. What do I mean? I like a defined "click" to both the left and right sides, as well as the scrollbar. Basically, I'm fed up b/c my current mouse (Raptor M30) is broken. I never really loved the scrollbar - it was too "free" scrollish if that makes any sense.









I've considered the Razer Deathadder and Mamba, which are _very]_ similar. I just want a company I know is reliable, and has good programmable macro support.

Capiche?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anodizingstatic*
> 
> *LOOKING* for a mouse that can edit well. What do I mean? I like a defined "click" to both the left and right sides, as well as the scrollbar. Basically, I'm fed up b/c my current mouse (Raptor M30) is broken. I never really loved the scrollbar - it was too "free" scrollish if that makes any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've considered the Razer Deathadder and Mamba, which are _very]_ similar. I just want a company I know is reliable, and has good programmable macro support.
> 
> Capiche?


Razer sure as hell ain't that.

You might want to look into the Zowie FK, it is a pinpoint mouse with excellent clicky feedback on all buttons.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anodizingstatic*
> 
> *LOOKING* for a mouse that can edit well. What do I mean? I like a defined "click" to both the left and right sides, as well as the scrollbar. Basically, I'm fed up b/c my current mouse (Raptor M30) is broken. I never really loved the scrollbar - it was too "free" scrollish if that makes any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've considered the Razer Deathadder and Mamba, which are _very]_ similar. I just want a company I know is reliable, and has good programmable macro support.
> 
> Capiche?


best macro program is A4tech mouse that can use oscar scripting (.amc files)

it's like logitech LUA, but you don't need to understand any programming logic


----------



## sanjiwatsuki

What's your grip style?
Fingertip.
What's your sensitivity?
I typically use 3500dpi.
What's your maximum budget?
$75
Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes. This is the biggest feature that I want to have.
I want at least 12 buttons -- left, middle (on a scroll wheel), right, and 9+ extra ones.*
What games do you play?
Already got a gaming mouse. The use case for this mouse would be entirely work-oriented.
Do you mind about prediction?
Don't care.
Other relevant information:
My biggest thing about this mouse is that I want to be using it for software development in an Emacs environment and general purpose computing. I consider using the mouse in most dev situations to either be a situation where A) I need exact text selection or B) my keyboard shortcuts have failed somewhere along the line.

Wireless is preferred if possible. Lower polling rate is preferred if possible for battery life considerations.

Toggling between clicking scroll wheel and free scroll wheeling preferred, but not necessary.

Horizontal scroll wheel functionality is preferred, but not necessary.

I would like to use the mouse on the go, so a smaller form factor is preferred, but not necessary.

Little weight placed on better sensors.

The mouse buttons must be compatible with being configured with BetterTouchTool in an OSX environment.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sanjiwatsuki*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I typically use 3500dpi.
> What's your maximum budget?
> $75
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Yes. This is the biggest feature that I want to have.
> I want at least 12 buttons -- left, middle (on a scroll wheel), right, and 9+ extra ones.*
> What games do you play?
> Already got a gaming mouse. The use case for this mouse would be entirely work-oriented.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't care.
> Other relevant information:
> My biggest thing about this mouse is that I want to be using it for software development in an Emacs environment and general purpose computing. I consider using the mouse in most dev situations to either be a situation where A) I need exact text selection or B) my keyboard shortcuts have failed somewhere along the line.
> 
> Wireless is preferred if possible. Lower polling rate is preferred if possible for battery life considerations.
> 
> Toggling between clicking scroll wheel and free scroll wheeling preferred, but not necessary.
> 
> Horizontal scroll wheel functionality is preferred, but not necessary.
> 
> I would like to use the mouse on the go, so a smaller form factor is preferred, but not necessary.
> 
> Little weight placed on better sensors.
> 
> The mouse buttons must be compatible with being configured with BetterTouchTool in an OSX environment.


G602 with 1 battery installed.


----------



## LandyVlad

OK....

I am struggling by with a cheap old mouse (but at least its not a 'ball' type LOL ) and would like to get one that's more comfortable and practical.

My main uses would be, in order:
Programs for photo editing, video editing etc.
Some gaming
General computer stuff.

1) What's your grip style? Palm Grip I suppose - I rest my whole hand on the mouse.

2) What's your sensitivity? I have no idea. I'm quite sensitive but no idea about this in this context.

3) What's your maximum budget? <$100 locally. Preferably a bit less.

4) Do you want additional buttons? I reckon they'd be handy, sure. A few extra would be fine, millions are not required.... I do need a mouse wheel / scroll thingy.

5) What games do you play? Pretty much FPS - I am playing Wolfenstein New Order at the moment and am waiting for Enemy Front. I am not a hardcore gamer by any means.

6) Do you mind about prediction? No idea but I don't think so? Wouldn't matter if it had it as long as it could be turned off.

7) Other relevant information: I think I've pretty much covered it. I'd probably prefer a wired one, as long as its not known for the wire getting in the way all the time..... Not a big fan of wireless because batteries always go flat when you need them....

Here's an Aussie on line shop so you can see what prices here are like.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_697

Thanks for your help.


----------



## GreenKiller

Greetings,
I read many good things about this forum section on other pages, so I hope you won't disappoint me! I had a pause of excessive gaming for about 1 year because of school exams/first semester of university. During this time I used a Tt eSports Theron, that I won in a raffle, for occasional gaming and office use. Since a week it starts to break (disconnects after every liftup, also just randomly, known issue) and it is not sure if I get a refund (would sell that.. _thing_ anyways) and I want to start playing CS and Quake again, I need a new mouse.


*What's your grip style?*
Claw grip
*What's your sensitivity?*
Back in the days I used 800dpi 6/11 1,0 ingame (52.2cm/360°)
*What's your maximum budget?*
maximum 75€ (~100$)
*Do you want additional buttons?*
standard 5 buttons is enough for me, I prefer both sidebuttons on the left side though
*What games do you play?*
CS, Quake
*Do you mind about prediction?*
the less, the better
*Other relevant information:*
corded, I don't care if it's braided or not, I got a bungee; finish preferrably mat; weight doesn't care that much
Thanks in advance!


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LandyVlad*
> 
> OK....
> 
> I am struggling by with a cheap old mouse (but at least its not a 'ball' type LOL ) and would like to get one that's more comfortable and practical.
> 
> My main uses would be, in order:
> Programs for photo editing, video editing etc.
> Some gaming
> General computer stuff.
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? Palm Grip I suppose - I rest my whole hand on the mouse.
> 
> 2) What's your sensitivity? I have no idea. I'm quite sensitive but no idea about this in this context.
> 
> 3) What's your maximum budget? <$100 locally. Preferably a bit less.
> 
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? I reckon they'd be handy, sure. A few extra would be fine, millions are not required.... I do need a mouse wheel / scroll thingy.
> 
> 5) What games do you play? Pretty much FPS - I am playing Wolfenstein New Order at the moment and am waiting for Enemy Front. I am not a hardcore gamer by any means.
> 
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? No idea but I don't think so? Wouldn't matter if it had it as long as it could be turned off.
> 
> 7) Other relevant information: I think I've pretty much covered it. I'd probably prefer a wired one, as long as its not known for the wire getting in the way all the time..... Not a big fan of wireless because batteries always go flat when you need them....
> 
> Here's an Aussie on line shop so you can see what prices here are like.
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_697
> 
> Thanks for your help.


If palm try Naos 7K


----------



## hurrakan

*What's your grip style?*
Hybrid, but mostly I think claw / fingertip

*What's your sensitivity?*
Don't know. 3000 or 2400dpi - but lower to 1800 for some games. And I usually turn sensitivity down to minimum in game options.

*What's your maximum budget?*
£60

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, one or two side thumb buttons

*What games do you play?*
Currently:
FPS (e.g. Serious Sam 3, Rise of the Triad)
ARPG (e.g. Path of Exile)
RPGs, Turn-Based Strategy

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Prefer no prediction, I think. But I dont know... maybe a little prediction helps when I use Photoshop etc. ?

*Other relevant information:*
My current mouse is a Razer Imperator that I bought in May 2010 (max DPI is 5600). It has lasted 4 years of constant use, which is pretty good, but the left mouse button has become unreliable. The Imperator tracking is very accurate. It works perfectly the same on any surface (cloth mat, hard mat, wooden desk). Lift off distance does seem a bit high.
Anyway, I got myself in to the highest tier of Quake Live using this mouse so it worked well for me. BUT I don't think I want another Razer mouse because I hear you now need an online account to use the latest drivers?

I ordered the Kone Pure Color laser mouse from Amazon but I'm going to send it back







It seems to be much worse than the Imperator! The Kone Pure's tracking is all over the place and it doesn't seem to work properly with _any_ of the surfaces I tried, whereas the Imperator works perfectly on all of them. I tried all kinds of combinations of settings/calibrations/TCU on/off etc.

However, I DO like the rest of the Kone Pure. The side thumb buttons are in exactly the right place and all of the buttons and wheel have a really nice quality. Size and coating are fine.

So, I would like to try an optical mouse this time. I'm trying to choose between:
_Kone Pure Optical_
_Mionix Avior 7000_

*TL/DR:*
Shall I get a Kone Pure Optical or Mionix Avior 7000 ?

Thanks!


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hurrakan*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Hybrid, but mostly I think claw / fingertip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Don't know. 3000 or 2400dpi - but lower to 1800 for some games. And I usually turn sensitivity down to minimum in game options.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> £60
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes, one or two side thumb buttons
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Currently:
> FPS (e.g. Serious Sam 3, Rise of the Triad)
> ARPG (e.g. Path of Exile)
> RPGs, Turn-Based Strategy
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Prefer no prediction, I think. But I dont know... maybe a little prediction helps when I use Photoshop etc. ?
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> My current mouse is a Razer Imperator that I bought in May 2010 (max DPI is 5600). It has lasted 4 years of constant use, which is pretty good, but the left mouse button has become unreliable. The Imperator tracking is very accurate. It works perfectly the same on any surface (cloth mat, hard mat, wooden desk). Lift off distance does seem a bit high.
> Anyway, I got myself in to the highest tier of Quake Live using this mouse so it worked well for me. BUT I don't think I want another Razer mouse because I hear you now need an online account to use the latest drivers?
> 
> I ordered the Kone Pure Color laser mouse from Amazon but I'm going to send it back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be much worse than the Imperator! The Kone Pure's tracking is all over the place and it doesn't seem to work properly with _any_ of the surfaces I tried, whereas the Imperator works perfectly on all of them. I tried all kinds of combinations of settings/calibrations/TCU on/off etc.
> 
> However, I DO like the rest of the Kone Pure. The side thumb buttons are in exactly the right place and all of the buttons and wheel have a really nice quality. Size and coating are fine.
> 
> So, I would like to try an optical mouse this time. I'm trying to choose between:
> _Kone Pure Optical_
> _Mionix Avior 7000_
> 
> *TL/DR:*
> Shall I get a Kone Pure Optical or Mionix Avior 7000 ?
> 
> Thanks!


Imperator use PTE sensor

Optical that perform better than PTE +have no z-axis is the 3310 (avior, pure optical *military*, m45, rival) - but have constant 2% accel when swiping. The shape that seems most similar to the Imperator is Avior.

Also, why not buy a mouse microswitch from amazon and solder it to your imperator PCB? It will fix the click issue.


----------



## hurrakan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Optical that perform better than PTE +have no z-axis is the 3310 (avior, pure optical *military*, m45, rival) - but have constant 2% accel when swiping. The shape that seems most similar to the Imperator is Avior.
> 
> Also, why not buy a mouse microswitch from amazon and solder it to your imperator PCB? It will fix the click issue.


I probably will try to replace the switch (I found some videos and guides on how to open the Imperator). But I would quite like to try something new - Imperator thumb buttons are not in a good place for me (even though they can be moved), and the coating has gone really weird. And I notice now that the click travel distance is much longer compared to the Kone Pure.

2% acceleration sounds like it could be annoying (if the Imperator has none)... is that noticeable? Is the 3310 sensor just much better overall than the 3090?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hurrakan*
> 
> I probably will try to replace the switch (I found some videos and guides on how to open the Imperator). But I would quite like to try something new - Imeprator thumb buttons are not in a good place for me (even though they can be moved), and the coating has gone really weird. And I notice now that the click travel distance is much longer compared to the Kone Pure.
> 
> 2% acceleration sounds like it could be annoying (if the Imperator has none)... is that noticeable? Is the 3310 sensor just much better overall than the 3090?


PTE on imperator has no accel

3310 have 2% consistent accel, unlike laser it is consistent and you can adapt your muscle memory to it..

3310 is considered a better version of 3090, native 50dpi step and no need to tape fix for lower LOD. 3090 I think also have accel like the 3310.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> PTE on imperator has no accel
> 
> 3310 have 2% consistent accel, unlike laser it is consistent and you can adapt your muscle memory to it..
> 
> 3310 is considered a better version of 3090, native 50dpi step and no need to tape fix for lower LOD. 3090 I think also have accel like the 3310.


Quote your source for 2% consistent accel.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Quote your source for 2% consistent accel.


Found this in the SS Rival thread


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Quote your source for 2% consistent accel.


It's an estimate based on the videos testing mouse acceleration with the Rival in a jig on a rail. The cursor overshoots the target between 1%-4%'ish. It's hard to do more than estimate in engine.


----------



## metal571

Have we confirmed this for the Avior and Naos and M45? It seems like it has only been tested with the Rival, and I might have seen something like that for the Naos.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hurrakan*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Hybrid, but mostly I think claw / fingertip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Don't know. 3000 or 2400dpi - but lower to 1800 for some games. And I usually turn sensitivity down to minimum in game options.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> £60
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes, one or two side thumb buttons
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Currently:
> FPS (e.g. Serious Sam 3, Rise of the Triad)
> ARPG (e.g. Path of Exile)
> RPGs, Turn-Based Strategy
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Prefer no prediction, I think. But I dont know... maybe a little prediction helps when I use Photoshop etc. ?
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> My current mouse is a Razer Imperator that I bought in May 2010 (max DPI is 5600). It has lasted 4 years of constant use, which is pretty good, but the left mouse button has become unreliable. The Imperator tracking is very accurate. It works perfectly the same on any surface (cloth mat, hard mat, wooden desk). Lift off distance does seem a bit high.
> Anyway, I got myself in to the highest tier of Quake Live using this mouse so it worked well for me. BUT I don't think I want another Razer mouse because I hear you now need an online account to use the latest drivers?
> 
> I ordered the Kone Pure Color laser mouse from Amazon but I'm going to send it back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be much worse than the Imperator! The Kone Pure's tracking is all over the place and it doesn't seem to work properly with _any_ of the surfaces I tried, whereas the Imperator works perfectly on all of them. I tried all kinds of combinations of settings/calibrations/TCU on/off etc.
> 
> However, I DO like the rest of the Kone Pure. The side thumb buttons are in exactly the right place and all of the buttons and wheel have a really nice quality. Size and coating are fine.
> 
> So, I would like to try an optical mouse this time. I'm trying to choose between:
> _Kone Pure Optical_
> _Mionix Avior 7000_
> 
> *TL/DR:*
> Shall I get a Kone Pure Optical or Mionix Avior 7000 ?
> 
> Thanks!


The Avior is better.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LandyVlad*
> 
> OK....
> 
> I am struggling by with a cheap old mouse (but at least its not a 'ball' type LOL ) and would like to get one that's more comfortable and practical.
> 
> My main uses would be, in order:
> Programs for photo editing, video editing etc.
> Some gaming
> General computer stuff.
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? Palm Grip I suppose - I rest my whole hand on the mouse.
> 
> 2) What's your sensitivity? I have no idea. I'm quite sensitive but no idea about this in this context.
> 
> 3) What's your maximum budget? <$100 locally. Preferably a bit less.
> 
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? I reckon they'd be handy, sure. A few extra would be fine, millions are not required.... I do need a mouse wheel / scroll thingy.
> 
> 5) What games do you play? Pretty much FPS - I am playing Wolfenstein New Order at the moment and am waiting for Enemy Front. I am not a hardcore gamer by any means.
> 
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? No idea but I don't think so? Wouldn't matter if it had it as long as it could be turned off.
> 
> 7) Other relevant information: I think I've pretty much covered it. I'd probably prefer a wired one, as long as its not known for the wire getting in the way all the time..... Not a big fan of wireless because batteries always go flat when you need them....
> 
> Here's an Aussie on line shop so you can see what prices here are like.
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_697
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Mionix Naos 7000 would work very well for this if you don't lift your mouse often while you play FPS. I assume you are a more casual gamer and don't use insanely low sensitivities.


----------



## PiOfPie

*What's your grip style?*
Generally fingertip.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Mid to high.

*What's your maximum budget?*
$50-60.
*
Do you want additional buttons?*
Could be nice, but I've made do without up until this point.

*What games do you play?*
-MMOs: SWTOR, FFXIV ARR
-Adventure: Skyrim
-Various RPGs

*Do you mind about prediction?*
-Don't know. Don't believe current mouse (see below) has prediction, so I'm unsure how I'd respond.

*Other relevant information:*
Current mouse is a cheapie Comfort Optical Mouse 3000. It's worked well for a long time, but the left clicker is getting less sensitive after 5 years. Aesthetically, prefer things that are black or blue. Primary emphasis is on reliability; I want a mouse that will last a long time.


----------



## X-PREDATOR

this prob..issnt best place to ask..but here goes..
why would a mice not function on windows 8.1? but under any other circumstance its flawless?
my setup
z68 gd80 g3
i5 2500k
ect...mouse cm storm sentinal adv ii

im asking here cause it seems theres alot of gaming experts here


----------



## lucentshade

Hi guys, new guy here. I have been using G400 for a long time and is a fan of palm grip (feels most comfortable for me) and since the mouse is slowly dying right now (the feet at btm broke because I don't use it on a mousepad, mouse sensitivity/movement becomes shaky, etc) and I have been reading a lot of these forum posts, reviews, suggestions and have gathered a list so far as below:


Mionix NAOS 3200/7000
Razer DeathAdder 2013
Steelseries Rival
Logitech G400S/G502
Worth mentioning that I have tried a lot of gaming mice in the past such as Razer Diamondback, Lachesis, Steelseries Ikari Optical, Xai, Gigabyte M6980 and until now Logitech G400. I am not as specific as some of you over here about acceleration/LOD/sensor/perfect control/malfunction whatever (no offense), I just enjoy a good mouse and hope to get some feedback based on my list over here. I am particularly fond of the shape of Ikari Optical, my personal experience with it is that rubber finishing surface (as of many others) is easy to get stains on it because my hand sweat pretty hard. I was pretty surprised to find out about the sensor thing besides laser/optical and learned something new, however I am not convinced it could have impacted my performance in my game (league of legends) significantly (if any).

So conclusion is that should I get the best out of its class (like NAOS 7000 instead of NAOS 3200) or just get 3200 since they have the same shape and I don't have a high/specific requirements? Which of them could last long? I have never heard of Mionix as a brand before but I have been seeing only praises of them around the enthusiasts.

PS:
What kind of mousepad should I get if I were to get any (if deemed necessary?)
For optical mouse is a cloth or hard surface perform better?
I am currently looking at QcK Mini since I move around a lot carrying my gear to game, I heard it's solid.

Thanks,
Lucent


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi guys, new guy here. I have been using G400 for a long time and is a fan of palm grip (feels most comfortable for me) and since the mouse is slowly dying right now (the feet at btm broke because I don't use it on a mousepad, mouse sensitivity/movement becomes shaky, etc) and I have been reading a lot of these forum posts, reviews, suggestions and have gathered a list so far as below:
> 
> 
> Mionix NAOS 3200/7000
> Razer DeathAdder 2013
> Steelseries Rival
> Logitech G400S/G502
> Worth mentioning that I have tried a lot of gaming mice in the past such as Razer Diamondback, Lachesis, Steelseries Ikari Optical, Xai, Gigabyte M6980 and until now Logitech G400. I am not as specific as some of you over here about acceleration/LOD/sensor/perfect control/malfunction whatever (no offense), I just enjoy a good mouse and hope to get some feedback based on my list over here. I am particularly fond of the shape of Ikari Optical, my personal experience with it is that rubber finishing surface (as of many others) is easy to get stains on it because my hand sweat pretty hard. I was pretty surprised to find out about the sensor thing besides laser/optical and learned something new, however I am not convinced it could have impacted my performance in my game (league of legends) significantly (if any).
> 
> So conclusion is that should I get the best out of its class (like NAOS 7000 instead of NAOS 3200) or just get 3200 since they have the same shape and I don't have a high/specific requirements? Which of them could last long? I have never heard of Mionix as a brand before but I have been seeing only praises of them around the enthusiasts.
> 
> PS:
> What kind of mousepad should I get if I were to get any (if deemed necessary?)
> For optical mouse is a cloth or hard surface perform better?
> I am currently looking at QcK Mini since I move around a lot carrying my gear to game, I heard it's solid.
> 
> Thanks,
> Lucent


Honestly most of those would work fine. I trust Mionix more and their customer service is second to none compared to the other brands, so I'd go for the Naos 7000. If you don't lift your mouse much you're in for the long haul in terms of performance and comfort. The QcK Mini is solid with it as well if you like a controlled cloth pad and don't need any more space than that.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Honestly most of those would work fine. I trust Mionix more and their customer service is second to none compared to the other brands, so I'd go for the Naos 7000. If you don't lift your mouse much you're in for the long haul in terms of performance and comfort. The QcK Mini is solid with it as well if you like a controlled cloth pad and don't need any more space than that.


Hi metal571, thanks for the reply and I've seen you quite a bit around this forums.

Back to the topic, to further my questions about mouse pad. What's the significance of a mouse pad? What's its main purpose? To provide the best surface for the mouse? To suck out all the performance a mice can output? To protect the feet of a mice (therefore prolong its life as well)?

As far as I know cloth mouse pad doesn't last long as they get torn/worn out quite easily because they are clothes. But I have read somewhere else that it's still a better choice than a hard mat. What's your opinion here? I normally just surf web/play LoL and not much special outside of that, and without a mouse pad my table surface would be plastic I guess (normal table).

In other words, what's the ideal surface for a mouse like NAOS 7000 to use on as it's not cheap so I hope to use it for as long as possible. Taking my usage into consideration of course.

Once again thank you.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi metal571, thanks for the reply and I've seen you quite a bit around this forums.
> 
> Back to the topic, to further my questions about mouse pad. What's the significance of a mouse pad? What's its main purpose? To provide the best surface for the mouse? To suck out all the performance a mice can output? To protect the feet of a mice (therefore prolong its life as well)?
> 
> As far as I know cloth mouse pad doesn't last long as they get torn/worn out quite easily because they are clothes. But I have read somewhere else that it's still a better choice than a hard mat. What's your opinion here? I normally just surf web/play LoL and not much special outside of that, and without a mouse pad my table surface would be plastic I guess (normal table).
> 
> In other words, what's the ideal surface for a mouse like NAOS 7000 to use on as it's not cheap so I hope to use it for as long as possible. Taking my usage into consideration of course.
> 
> Once again thank you.


Mousepads are mostly useful for yes getting the most out of your mouse but more importantly having a CONSISTENT surface to use your gaming mouse on. Consistency across the surface is extremely helpful especially when you're used to a specific uniform feel, but also they ensure proper tracking as well. I am an Avior 7000 user, same sensor as the Naos, and I have a QcK Mini and Heavy, and both work very well with the sensor. You won't have any issues there.

QcKs last years. Hard mats, a couple of months with heavy use. Cloth is definitely the way to go, not just for optical sensors but also for longevity. I use a Puretrak Talent because I play FPS on a very low sensitivity. You won't need that gigantic pad. I would still encourage you to get at least a standard QcK rather than the Mini just in case you decide to start playing at varying sensitivities.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mousepads are mostly useful for yes getting the most out of your mouse but more importantly having a CONSISTENT surface to use your gaming mouse on. Consistency across the surface is extremely helpful especially when you're used to a specific uniform feel, but also they ensure proper tracking as well. I am an Avior 7000 user, same sensor as the Naos, and I have a QcK Mini and Heavy, and both work very well with the sensor. You won't have any issues there.
> 
> QcKs last years. Hard mats, a couple of months with heavy use. Cloth is definitely the way to go, not just for optical sensors but also for longevity. I use a Puretrak Talent because I play FPS on a very low sensitivity. You won't need that gigantic pad. I would still encourage you to get at least a standard QcK rather than the Mini just in case you decide to start playing at varying sensitivities.


Thanks! I think I would go with the NAOS 7000 + Qck combo. Since it's a bit pricey for me I hope I won't be disappointed by Mionix.

Last question: Is there any place that I can get NAOS 7000 cheaper than $79.99? It would be great if I can get it for a slightly cheaper price.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Thanks! I think I would go with the NAOS 7000 + Qck combo. Since it's a bit pricey for me I hope I won't be disappointed by Mionix.
> 
> Last question: Is there any place that I can get NAOS 7000 cheaper than $79.99? It would be great if I can get it for a slightly cheaper price.


I know it's pricey and unfortunately they don't go on sale all that often, being relatively new products. I think once you drop the cash and receive the products though, you'll feel like it was absolutely worth it so go ahead and grab those now. They are tried and true gaming peripherals, and you'll have no issue. Try amazon if you have prime, of course.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know it's pricey and unfortunately they don't go on sale all that often, being relatively new products. I think once you drop the cash and receive the products though, you'll feel like it was absolutely worth it so go ahead and grab those now. They are tried and true gaming peripherals, and you'll have no issue. Try amazon if you have prime, of course.


Alright, got it. Guess I will stick to Amazon then, thanks for your advice and replies, I'm looking to share my experience with it once it's arrived!


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi guys, new guy here. I have been using G400 for a long time and is a fan of palm grip (feels most comfortable for me) and since the mouse is slowly dying right now (the feet at btm broke because I don't use it on a mousepad, mouse sensitivity/movement becomes shaky, etc) and I have been reading a lot of these forum posts, reviews, suggestions and have gathered a list so far as below:
> 
> 
> Mionix NAOS 3200/7000
> Razer DeathAdder 2013
> Steelseries Rival
> Logitech G400S/G502
> Worth mentioning that I have tried a lot of gaming mice in the past such as Razer Diamondback, Lachesis, Steelseries Ikari Optical, Xai, Gigabyte M6980 and until now Logitech G400. I am not as specific as some of you over here about acceleration/LOD/sensor/perfect control/malfunction whatever (no offense), I just enjoy a good mouse and hope to get some feedback based on my list over here. I am particularly fond of the shape of Ikari Optical, my personal experience with it is that rubber finishing surface (as of many others) is easy to get stains on it because my hand sweat pretty hard. I was pretty surprised to find out about the sensor thing besides laser/optical and learned something new, however I am not convinced it could have impacted my performance in my game (league of legends) significantly (if any).
> 
> So conclusion is that should I get the best out of its class (like NAOS 7000 instead of NAOS 3200) or just get 3200 since they have the same shape and I don't have a high/specific requirements? Which of them could last long? I have never heard of Mionix as a brand before but I have been seeing only praises of them around the enthusiasts.
> 
> PS:
> What kind of mousepad should I get if I were to get any (if deemed necessary?)
> For optical mouse is a cloth or hard surface perform better?
> I am currently looking at QcK Mini since I move around a lot carrying my gear to game, I heard it's solid.
> 
> Thanks,
> Lucent


If you liked your G400, I'd consider G400s more because of price. QcK is the worst mouse pad I've ever tried in terms of sweat (black ones), so to say. On the other hand those "Limited Editions" seem not to have the same "issue" since they use a different coating.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know it's pricey and unfortunately they don't go on sale all that often, being relatively new products. I think once you drop the cash and receive the products though, you'll feel like it was absolutely worth it so go ahead and grab those now. They are tried and true gaming peripherals, and you'll have no issue. Try amazon if you have prime, of course.


Mionix was founded in 2007.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> If you liked your G400, I'd consider G400s more because of price. QcK is the worst mouse pad I've ever tried in terms of sweat (black ones), so to say. On the other hand those "Limited Editions" seem not to have the same "issue" since they use a different coating.


I saw a lot of special editions use different coating than the normal one. It seems like they are much more comfortable to rest my hand/wrist on than a rough cloth surface. Thoughts? Any of you had felt uncomfortable during long sessions with qck black?

Currently looking at Portal 2 Edition (looks simplistic and great) but I am not sure if I read the description of it correctly, it says it uses a different coating than the normal QcK. Did I misunderstood it? Here's the link


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> If you liked your G400, I'd consider G400s more because of price. QcK is the worst mouse pad I've ever tried in terms of sweat (black ones), so to say. On the other hand those "Limited Editions" seem not to have the same "issue" since they use a different coating.
> Mionix was founded in 2007.


The Avior and Naos 7000 are NOT from 2007.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> I saw a lot of special editions use different coating than the normal one. It seems like they are much more comfortable to rest my hand/wrist on than a rough cloth surface. Thoughts? Any of you had felt uncomfortable during long sessions with qck black?
> 
> Currently looking at Portal 2 Edition (looks simplistic and great) but I am not sure if I read the description of it correctly, it says it uses a different coating than the normal QcK. Did I misunderstood it? Here's the link


I love the QCK Heavy in black. I have had no issues with sweat at all. If you want to feel like your hand is writhing in a good sweat soup, then hop on a Artisan Hayate. THAT is a pad that is bad with sweat.

The coating on the sponsored QCK's is different because of the printing method. It creates a much tighter weave on the surface, so it's a bit faster. The problem with them is that if you happen to buy an optical mouse with a picky sensor, it might have skipping issues with the pattern. This was a real issue with the Razer Goliathus Fragged Edition mouse pads. You'll see some Zowie and 3.5G DA users turn the pad sideways and use the black part. Remember, different colors affect optical sensors differently. So, if you're using a non-IR optical mouse and have a red and black mouse pad, you'll have the read height raise and lower as the mouse tracks over the pattern.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreenKiller*
> 
> Greetings,
> I read many good things about this forum section on other pages, so I hope you won't disappoint me! I had a pause of excessive gaming for about 1 year because of school exams/first semester of university. During this time I used a Tt eSports Theron, that I won in a raffle, for occasional gaming and office use. Since a week it starts to break (disconnects after every liftup, also just randomly, known issue) and it is not sure if I get a refund (would sell that.. _thing_ anyways) and I want to start playing CS and Quake again, I need a new mouse.
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw grip
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Back in the days I used 800dpi 6/11 1,0 ingame (52.2cm/360°)
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> maximum 75€ (~100$)
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> standard 5 buttons is enough for me, I prefer both sidebuttons on the left side though
> *What games do you play?*
> CS, Quake
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> the less, the better
> *Other relevant information:*
> corded, I don't care if it's braided or not, I got a bungee; finish preferrably mat; weight doesn't care that much
> Thanks in advance!


Since you claw I would say go for the Zowie FK or AM-FG, most comfortable mice for that IMO. The Mionix Avior should be good too, but I have no first hand experience with it.

I absolutely love the FK shape, even though it is small. The only downside would be that Zowies only have 450/1150/2300 CPI. So if you need 800 dpi maybe try the Avior.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I love the QCK Heavy in black. I have had no issues with sweat at all. If you want to feel like your hand is writhing in a good sweat soup, then hop on a Artisan Hayate. THAT is a pad that is bad with sweat.
> 
> The coating on the sponsored QCK's is different because of the printing method. It creates a much tighter weave on the surface, so it's a bit faster. The problem with them is that if you happen to buy an optical mouse with a picky sensor, it might have skipping issues with the pattern. This was a real issue with the Razer Goliathus Fragged Edition mouse pads. You'll see some Zowie and 3.5G DA users turn the pad sideways and use the black part. Remember, different colors affect optical sensors differently. So, if you're using a non-IR optical mouse and have a red and black mouse pad, you'll have the read height raise and lower as the mouse tracks over the pattern.


Alright, I ordered NAOS 7000 and Qck Black anyway. They probably will arrive tomorrow and will see what's the results, hopefully it's fine so that I won't need to return it and get some other surface. Is there any other brands that have good mousepad with size around QcK with good price and build quality?


----------



## GreenKiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Since you claw I would say go for the Zowie FK or AM-FG, most comfortable mice for that IMO. The Mionix Avior should be good too, but I have no first hand experience with it.
> 
> I absolutely love the FK shape, even though it is small. The only downside would be that Zowies only have 450/1150/2300 CPI. So if you need 800 dpi maybe try the Avior.


Yeah, after reading through some reviews I also saw the Zowie's as good options, I ordered the FK for now. The CPI might be a bit weird at first glance, but I think I can counter that by just taking the correct ingame setting, also since I didn't played serious for a year it shouldn't be a big problem to get used to a slightly different sensitivity.

About the Mionix Avior: I might try it later if I'm not completely satisfied with the FK, since I can only get it from Spain (ebay+Amazon) and UK (Amazon, but more expensive) and shipping over the borders takes it time (I ordered some vinyls from UK once, took in total 2 weeks).


----------



## szeged

1 What's your grip style? Palm 99% of the time

2 What's your sensitivity? roughly 2300-2400

3 What's your maximum budget? no budget, any price goes as long as the quality is there

4 Do you want additional buttons? the more the better

5 What games do you play? WoW, Diablo3, other small name mmo's / AARPG games, absolutely no fps games, so i dont need " t3h l33t fr4gz0r" mouse.

6 Do you mind about prediction? not at all

7 Other relevant information: been using (and now very used to) razer naga mice for 5 years or something like that now, but im just fed up with razer quality... wait razer has quality with their naga series?







Either buttons dying, left/right click dying, z axis getting screwed up, or just the mouse itself breaking down...something usually always goes wrong. Oh also razer synapse software is the spawn of satan.

8 Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Would prefer something with as many buttons as possible, idk if its ambidextrous or right handed, would prefer a medium weight/heavier mouse, i hate feeling like theres nothing in my hand ( gf has a g100 and i hate it)

The more buttons the better, i did say that already right?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 1 What's your grip style? Palm 99% of the time
> 
> 2 What's your sensitivity? roughly 2300-2400
> 
> 3 What's your maximum budget? no budget, any price goes as long as the quality is there
> 
> 4 Do you want additional buttons? the more the better
> 
> 5 What games do you play? WoW, Diablo3, other small name mmo's / AARPG games, absolutely no fps games, so i dont need " t3h l33t fr4gz0r" mouse.
> 
> 6 Do you mind about prediction? not at all
> 
> 7 Other relevant information: been using (and now very used to) razer naga mice for 5 years or something like that now, but im just fed up with razer quality... wait razer has quality with their naga series?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either buttons dying, left/right click dying, z axis getting screwed up, or just the mouse itself breaking down...something usually always goes wrong. Oh also razer synapse software is the spawn of satan.
> 
> 8 Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Would prefer something with as many buttons as possible, idk if its ambidextrous or right handed, would prefer a medium weight/heavier mouse, i hate feeling like theres nothing in my hand ( gf has a g100 and i hate it)
> 
> The more buttons the better, i did say that already right?


G602, G502, latter is heavier


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Alright, I ordered NAOS 7000 and Qck Black anyway. They probably will arrive tomorrow and will see what's the results, hopefully it's fine so that I won't need to return it and get some other surface. Is there any other brands that have good mousepad with size around QcK with good price and build quality?


I liked the Razer Goliathus Speed Fragged Edition a lot. Never had any kind of trouble with Savu, G500 or Kone Pure Optical on it. The new Goliahtus is... green now, so, some sensors might be picky on it. I don't like Zowie mice, but their G-TF Speed mouse pad was really awesome and fast. Guess the G-TF Rough has more friction and is slower therefore. However, I liked that pad a lot as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G602, G502, latter is heavier


Maybe also G600...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I liked the Razer Goliathus Speed Fragged Edition a lot. Never had any kind of trouble with Savu, G500 or Kone Pure Optical on it. The new Goliahtus is... green now, so, some sensors might be picky on it. I don't like Zowie mice, but their G-TF Speed mouse pad was really awesome and fast. Guess the G-TF Rough has more friction and is slower therefore. However, I liked that pad a lot as well.
> Maybe also G600...


Really the G600 is better with a flawed sensor? No.


----------



## hza

What's the flaws? oO I never looked into a G600 as I never really wanted one or expected super precise cursor movement from an "MMO mouse". However, some people may not see your flaws as their flaws. For example I never felt the accel of 9500 arch to be a flaw in any way, neither on Xai, nor on G500. And believe it or not, I did pretty well in 1.6 with those mice when I still played that game. Of course I didn't win any Extreme Masters or something.


----------



## kkit0410

What's your grip style? Not Sure, both?
What's your sensitivity? up to 3000
What's your maximum budget? $80
Do you want additional buttons? Yep, some.
What games do you play? Dota2, D3, BF4, CSGO, POE etc
Do you mind about prediction? hmm nope?
Other relevant information: I am using G600 ATM.. a bit too heavy but got used to it. just want new toys lol

Some said, G600 is not accurcy enough, i want more accurcy.
I got used to G600's, i think i can get used to other shape and wieght...
Should i buy G502? or lesser mice like SS Rival or even CM or Roccat?
Zowie FK, Corsair M45(only have M30/M65/M95), Avior 7000 are not available here. Is the G502 is the only choice?

Is the mouse feet have problems in G502? i am using custom glass pad... i afaird it may damage its feet.

The price for Rival is $450, G502 $599 (In HKD, 1USD = 7.8 USD)
and I can order Zowie from China But no warranty, may be fake...
Thank You


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> What's the flaws? oO I never looked into a G600 as I never really wanted one or expected super precise cursor movement from an "MMO mouse". However, some people may not see your flaws as their flaws. For example I never felt the accel of 9500 arch to be a flaw in any way, neither on Xai, nor on G500. And believe it or not, I did pretty well in 1.6 with those mice when I still played that game. Of course I didn't win any Extreme Masters or something.


Well yeah I'm just saying there are alternatives without the 9800 that's all. It may or may not be a big deal but since it seems avoidable to me with the other choices, I just wanted the point that out.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkit0410*
> 
> What's your grip style? Not Sure, both?
> What's your sensitivity? up to 3000
> What's your maximum budget? $80
> Do you want additional buttons? Yep, some.
> What games do you play? Dota2, D3, BF4, CSGO, POE etc
> Do you mind about prediction? hmm nope?
> Other relevant information: I am using G600 ATM.. a bit too heavy but got used to it. just want new toys lol
> 
> Some said, G600 is not accurcy enough, i want more accurcy.
> I got used to G600's, i think i can get used to other shape and wieght...
> Should i buy G502? or lesser mice like SS Rival or even CM or Roccat?
> Zowie FK, Corsair M45(only have M30/M65/M95), Avior 7000 are not available here. Is the G502 is the only choice?
> 
> Is the mouse feet have problems in G502? i am using custom glass pad... i afaird it may damage its feet.
> 
> The price for Rival is $450, G502 $599 (In HKD, 1USD = 7.8 USD)
> and I can order Zowie from China But no warranty, may be fake...
> Thank You


If you are ok with heavy mouse, buy G502


----------



## gryphonza

What's your grip style? Light claw grip, hybrid claw/fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 6/11 windows, 1.6 in cs:go
What's your maximum budget? No maximum, but would like to get the best deal for what I need
Do you want additional buttons? maybe 1 or 2, not too much of an issue
What games do you play? cs:go mainly, a bit of Dota2/LoL/Smite
Do you mind about prediction? would prefer no prediction
Other relevant information:
After buying a Razer Diamondback 3G years ago and having the right click get jammed I gave up on "gaming" peripherals. I have been using a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 1.0A ever since. This mouse has been a real tank seeing as I got it for free but now my cursor freaks out every few minutes without me moving the mouse. Also the scroll wheel often starts scrolling up without me touching it.
So after much thought I have decided to spend a decent amount of money on a solid mouse and mechanical keyboard that should last me a couple years (hopefully). Now the question is, which mouse? As I said before I move between fingertip and claw gripping, using the latter when im aiming. I also have fairly small hands and slender fingers. Because of the aforementioned Razer Diamondback I ended up with the habit of right clicking with both my middle and ring fingers. So when I hold my mouse, my thumb is on the left side, my index finger is on the left click, my middle finger moves between the wheel and right click, my ring finger sits on the right click, and my pinky grips the right side. Basically I always have my inner 3 fingers on top of the mouse.

So, what would you guys recommend? Oh and one more thing, I live in South Africa and so not all brands are available here (unless something has changed and I can order from Amazon or something). One of our MGOs has just opened an online shop that sells the Zowie FK, Zowie EVO EC2 CL, and the Mionix Avior 7000. And after much reading it seems my choice is between these 3 anyway. The shop's link is here http://store.dcgaming.org/collections/mice. You can basically divide the prices by 10 to see the cost in US Dollars. Would it be cheaper to try and order off Amazon?
TLR = Claw/fingertip grip, small hands, low sens, cs:go, which mouse?
Thanks for your help


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gryphonza*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Light claw grip, hybrid claw/fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? 6/11 windows, 1.6 in cs:go
> What's your maximum budget? No maximum, but would like to get the best deal for what I need
> Do you want additional buttons? maybe 1 or 2, not too much of an issue
> What games do you play? cs:go mainly, a bit of Dota2/LoL/Smite
> Do you mind about prediction? would prefer no prediction
> Other relevant information:
> After buying a Razer Diamondback 3G years ago and having the right click get jammed I gave up on "gaming" peripherals. I have been using a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 1.0A ever since. This mouse has been a real tank seeing as I got it for free but now my cursor freaks out every few minutes without me moving the mouse. Also the scroll wheel often starts scrolling up without me touching it.
> So after much thought I have decided to spend a decent amount of money on a solid mouse and mechanical keyboard that should last me a couple years (hopefully). Now the question is, which mouse? As I said before I move between fingertip and claw gripping, using the latter when im aiming. I also have fairly small hands and slender fingers. Because of the aforementioned Razer Diamondback I ended up with the habit of right clicking with both my middle and ring fingers. So when I hold my mouse, my thumb is on the left side, my index finger is on the left click, my middle finger moves between the wheel and right click, my ring finger sits on the right click, and my pinky grips the right side. Basically I always have my inner 3 fingers on top of the mouse.
> 
> So, what would you guys recommend? Oh and one more thing, I live in South Africa and so not all brands are available here (unless something has changed and I can order from Amazon or something). One of our MGOs has just opened an online shop that sells the Zowie FK, Zowie EVO EC2 CL, and the Mionix Avior 7000. And after much reading it seems my choice is between these 3 anyway. The shop's link is here http://store.dcgaming.org/collections/mice. You can basically divide the prices by 10 to see the cost in US Dollars. Would it be cheaper to try and order off Amazon?
> TLR = Claw/fingertip grip, small hands, low sens, cs:go, which mouse?
> Thanks for your help


Avior


----------



## 4jason4

*What's your grip style?* Claw
*What's your sensitivity?* 600-700 dpi
*What's your maximum budget?* Around 60$
*Do you want additional buttons?* Don't matter
*What games do you play?* tf2, cs:go payday 2
*Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer no prediction
*Other relevant information*:
Weight- medium to heavy/customizable
My g9x just broke and I am looking for a new mouse with similar body style of g9x, but in optical.

,Thanks


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4jason4*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Claw
> *What's your sensitivity?* 600-700 dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?* Around 60$
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Don't matter
> *What games do you play?* tf2, cs:go payday 2
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer no prediction
> *Other relevant information*:
> Weight- medium to heavy/customizable
> My g9x just broke and I am looking for a new mouse with similar body style of g9x, but in optical.
> 
> ,Thanks


I don't really know of any medium to heavy mice that fits that description. You could try the Logitech G502, or the Mionix Avior 7000 but the latter does not have customizable weight.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gryphonza*
> 
> So after much thought I have decided to spend a decent amount of money on a solid mouse and mechanical keyboard that should last me a couple years (hopefully). Now the question is, which mouse? As I said before I move between fingertip and claw gripping, using the latter when im aiming. I also have fairly small hands and slender fingers. Because of the aforementioned Razer Diamondback I ended up with the habit of right clicking with both my middle and ring fingers. So when I hold my mouse, my thumb is on the left side, my index finger is on the left click, my middle finger moves between the wheel and right click, my ring finger sits on the right click, and my pinky grips the right side. Basically I always have my inner 3 fingers on top of the mouse.
> 
> So, what would you guys recommend? Oh and one more thing, I live in South Africa and so not all brands are available here (unless something has changed and I can order from Amazon or something). One of our MGOs has just opened an online shop that sells the Zowie FK, Zowie EVO EC2 CL, and the Mionix Avior 7000. And after much reading it seems my choice is between these 3 anyway. The shop's link is here
> http://store.dcgaming.org/collections/mice. You can basically divide the prices by 10 to see the cost in US Dollars. Would it be cheaper to try and order off Amazon?
> 
> TLR = Claw/fingertip grip, small hands, low sens, cs:go, which mouse?
> Thanks for your help


I think you'd like the FK. It's like a shorter, thinner WMO (same shell as the mouse you're using) with v shaped sides and a more flared front like a diamondback. Downside is that it's a smaller mouse, but I don't think you'd mind.

Otherwise it depends, what do you like? EC2 is ergonomic and noticeable heavier, and I haven't tried the Avior, but 100g isn't light.


----------



## xD4rkFire

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *16"/360*
What's your maximum budget? *$70*
Do you want additional buttons? *No*
What games do you play? *CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction please.*

I took a few pictures of my hand as a reference for size. The length from the bottom of my palm to the edge of my middle finger is about 7 inches / 17.78cm



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








To echo this thread from another user
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ANDMYGUN*
> 
> Good evening guys, I'm looking to get a new mouse, I currently use a Deathadder 3.5 and I quite like it but it's just too big for my hands. To paint a picture in your mind, my thumb can't reach the front side button without having to go in a really awkward position. .


Gripping my Deathadder, I can only reach the rear side button without shifting my hand. If I want to click the front side button, I have to shift my hand forward on the mouse.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Tl;dr - Deathadder I have is too big, need a smaller mouse*


----------



## peilis

What's your grip style? *Not sure im guessing some kind of claw.*
What's your sensitivity? *800-1000dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *$70, the lower the better*
Do you want additional buttons? *can do without them.*
What games do you play? *Dota2, csgo, sc2.*
Do you mind about prediction? *dont want any prediction acceleration or any of that stuff.*

Atm im using abyssus, it was alright mouse for me, but left mouse button lost it clickiness, and i need press pretty hard for it to detect mouse clicks. So im searching mouse to replace it, optical. Also i would like it to not be ambidextrous, and maybe smaller or atleast same size as abyssus.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xD4rkFire*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *16"/360*
> What's your maximum budget? *$70*
> Do you want additional buttons? *No*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction please.*
> 
> I took a few pictures of my hand as a reference for size. The length from the bottom of my palm to the edge of my middle finger is about 7 inches / 17.78cm
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To echo this thread from another user
> Gripping my Deathadder, I can only reach the rear side button without shifting my hand. If I want to click the front side button, I have to shift my hand forward on the mouse.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tl;dr - Deathadder I have is too big, need a smaller mouse*


Roccat Kone Pure Optical may be an option for you. It's a smaller mouse, but it's not a small mouse. It's more in the "small-mid" range you could say.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peilis*
> 
> What's your grip style? *Not sure im guessing some kind of claw.*
> What's your sensitivity? *800-1000dpi*
> What's your maximum budget? *$70, the lower the better*
> Do you want additional buttons? *can do without them.*
> What games do you play? *Dota2, csgo, sc2.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *dont want any prediction acceleration or any of that stuff.*
> 
> Atm im using abyssus, it was alright mouse for me, but left mouse button lost it clickiness, and i need press pretty hard for it to detect mouse clicks. So im searching mouse to replace it, optical. Also i would like it to not be ambidextrous, and maybe smaller or atleast same size as abyssus.


That's a tough one. Only mouse that comes to mind considering your preferences would be CM Storm Spawn, I guess. Or Roccat Kone Pure Optical, but that's bigger than Abyssus. I don't know other ergonomical mice around that size, sorry.


----------



## peilis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> That's a tough one. Only mouse that comes to mind considering your preferences would be CM Storm Spawn, I guess. Or Roccat Kone Pure Optical, but that's bigger than Abyssus. I don't know other ergonomical mice around that size, sorry.


yes, CM Storm Spawn is unavailable in my country atm. And ye, i guess Kone pure optical fits my reqs, apart from being slightly bigger than abyssus. I noticed myself even before that its pretty much only mouse that would fit all my reqs, just wanted to see if other ppl have something to suggest apart from it.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peilis*
> 
> What's your grip style? *Not sure im guessing some kind of claw.*
> What's your sensitivity? *800-1000dpi*
> What's your maximum budget? *$70, the lower the better*
> Do you want additional buttons? *can do without them.*
> What games do you play? *Dota2, csgo, sc2.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *dont want any prediction acceleration or any of that stuff.*
> 
> Atm im using abyssus, it was alright mouse for me, but left mouse button lost it clickiness, and i need press pretty hard for it to detect mouse clicks. So im searching mouse to replace it, optical. Also i would like it to not be ambidextrous, and maybe smaller or atleast same size as abyssus.


Possibly EC2 EVO


----------



## peilis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Possibly EC2 EVO


that actually seems fairly good.
Whats the difference between ZOWIE EC2 eVo-CL and EC2 evo? seems like same mouse apart from scroll wheel and differnt colors.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peilis*
> 
> that actually seems fairly good.
> Whats the difference between ZOWIE EC2 eVo-CL and EC2 evo? seems like same mouse apart from scroll wheel and differnt colors.


Rubber coating is a bit different, scroll wheel has a few more notches, and the sensor uses an IR-LED instead of a standard red LED.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peilis*
> 
> that actually seems fairly good.
> Whats the difference between ZOWIE EC2 eVo-CL and EC2 evo? seems like same mouse apart from scroll wheel and differnt colors.


Don't forget Zowie mice give you only 3 dpi options (450/1150/2300). If you can live with that, you should be fine.


----------



## pr0g4m1ng

Grip style: Claw/ Palm - it differs. Mostly palm though.
Sensitivity: I use 400-540dpi and a in game sensitivity of ~3. A 360° turning in game needs about 25-30cm mouse movement.
Budget: 100€
Buttons: I want at least 5 buttons.
Games: FPS, mostly Counter Strike Global Offensive.
Prediction: No idea!
Other relevant information:

My Mouse history:
Intellimouse Optical 1.1A
Razer Copperhead
Steelseries Xai
Steelseries Sensei

I want an ambidextrous shape, low weight and a braided cord. From reading through the forums a bit i came to the conclusion that it might be worth to give the *Mionix Avior 7000/ Avior SK* a try. Objections?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr0g4m1ng*
> 
> Grip style: Claw/ Palm - it differs. Mostly palm though.
> Sensitivity: I use 400-540dpi and a in game sensitivity of ~3. A 360° turning in game needs about 25-30cm mouse movement.
> Budget: 100€
> Buttons: I want at least 5 buttons.
> Games: FPS, mostly Counter Strike Global Offensive.
> Prediction: No idea!
> Other relevant information:
> 
> My Mouse history:
> Intellimouse Optical 1.1A
> Razer Copperhead
> Steelseries Xai
> Steelseries Sensei
> 
> I want an ambidextrous shape, low weight and a braided cord. From reading through the forums a bit i came to the conclusion that it might be worth to give the *Mionix Avior 7000/ Avior SK* a try. Objections?


Performance wise it's a great mouse, not very light tho.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr0g4m1ng*
> 
> Grip style: Claw/ Palm - it differs. Mostly palm though.
> Sensitivity: I use 400-540dpi and a in game sensitivity of ~3. A 360° turning in game needs about 25-30cm mouse movement.
> Budget: 100€
> Buttons: I want at least 5 buttons.
> Games: FPS, mostly Counter Strike Global Offensive.
> Prediction: No idea!
> Other relevant information:
> 
> My Mouse history:
> Intellimouse Optical 1.1A
> Razer Copperhead
> Steelseries Xai
> Steelseries Sensei
> 
> I want an ambidextrous shape, low weight and a braided cord. From reading through the forums a bit i came to the conclusion that it might be worth to give the *Mionix Avior 7000/ Avior SK* a try. Objections?


The Avior 7000 is a great mouse. The sensor is one of the best on the market, the shape is comfortable for palm and claw grip and the build quality is top notch. I've used it for CSGO and found it to be absolutely fine. The only reason that I don't use it myself is because it's slightly larger and heavier than I would like. This probably won't be an issue for you because you're used to the Sensei which has a similar weight.

If you want some smaller, lighter alternatives then the Zowie FK or the Kana V2 are both good choices for ambidextrous mice.

The Zowie FK has a slight "\_/" shape at the front similar to the Avior 7000 which makes it easy to grip and lift. Personally I would say it is one of my favourite mouse shapes. The switches are Huanos which are slightly harder to click, but provide a satisfying tactile feedback if you're into that sort of thing. The sensor is a 3500dpi with custom lens which gives it a very low lift off distance at the cost of some surface incompatibility issues. Some users (including myself) have felt that there is a slight amount of delay on the 450dpi and 1150dpi steps but this doesn't trouble the vast majority of people and unless you've had problems with other mice then I wouldn't worry about this too much. The Zowie FK doesn't have a braided cord but its rubber cord is extremely flexible and one of the best I've used so I wouldn't rule it out for that reason!

The Kana V2 has a less pronounced "\_/" shape and large side buttons (relative to the size of the mouse itself) which some users have reported made it harder for them to lift although this wasn't a problem for me. It uses a 4000dpi 3090 sensor which gives high lift off distance and some users (including myself) feel that it has an amount of "smoothing" leading to some input lag and a detached feeling to the cursor movement. Again the "smoothing" isn't something that the majority of people notice so unless you've had a problem with it before then you probably shouldn't worry about it.

That said, in your situation I would probably go with the Avior 7000. Hope that helps.


----------



## peilis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Don't forget Zowie mice give you only 3 dpi options (450/1150/2300). If you can live with that, you should be fine.


So no other mouse suggestion?


----------



## pr0g4m1ng

Thank you. I will go for the AVIOR SK (7000 doesn't seem to be available in Germany - whatever).


----------



## Lysergic

What's your grip style? *Use palm grip since it's the one that leaves me with the least tension on my wrist and hand.*
What's your sensitivity? *Using around 2000-2400 dpi at the moment at standard with all game and windows sensitivity set at default.*
What's your maximum budget? *i rather not spend more than 100 $ / 65€ as i also want a new mouse pad to go with a new mouse.*
Do you want additional buttons? *Just the normal two side buttons and a dpi changer, wouldn't mind more but like to keep it simple.*
What games do you play? *FPS, RTS, MOBA*
Do you mind about prediction? *Have only used the first versions of Deathadder and roccat kone so i dont know what kind of predictions there have been with those mices, but the deathadder had been the one i liked the best, only down side was the claw grip, no tumb rest and that it broke easily.*
Other relevant information: *Got quite a wide and large hand, I really like a tumb rest so my tumb dont drag all along the mouse pad.*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lysergic*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Use palm grip since it's the one that leaves me with the least tension on my wrist and hand.*
> What's your sensitivity? *Using around 2000-2400 dpi at the moment at standard with all game and windows sensitivity set at default.*
> What's your maximum budget? *i rather not spend more than 100 $ / 65€ as i also want a new mouse pad to go with a new mouse.*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Just the normal two side buttons and a dpi changer, wouldn't mind more but like to keep it simple.*
> What games do you play? *FPS, RTS, MOBA*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Have only used the first versions of Deathadder and roccat kone so i dont know what kind of predictions there have been with those mices, but the deathadder had been the one i liked the best, only down side was the claw grip, no tumb rest and that it broke easily.*
> Other relevant information: *Got quite a wide and large hand, I really like a tumb rest so my tumb dont drag all along the mouse pad.*
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


I suppose if you don't lift your mouse up often the Mionix Naos 7000 would be great for you. That leaves some, but not much, monetary room to pair it with something like a QcK or Roccat Taito depending on how fast you want your pad, latter is the faster one.


----------



## lucentshade

Hi guys, I am here again. I just got my Naos 7000 for a few days. Unfortunately I found out that my grip is actually more like a fingertip grip rather than full palm grip, so I planned to return the mouse. The mouse was awesome, the driver and customization software was pretty good. But I would need to get another mouse, any suggestions? Previously I stated I was looking at Steelseries Rival, Razer DA2013 Logitech. Any input?

Thanks.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi guys, I am here again. I just got my Naos 7000 for a few days. Unfortunately I found out that my grip is actually more like a fingertip grip rather than full palm grip, so I planned to return the mouse. The mouse was awesome, the driver and customization software was pretty good. But I would need to get another mouse, any suggestions? Previously I stated I was looking at Steelseries Rival, Razer DA2013 Logitech. Any input?
> 
> Thanks.


Avior 7000.


----------



## lucentshade

Hmm.. I would prefer a more ergonomic design mouse than a ambidextrous one though, had a Steelseries Xai that felt not so comfortable for me..


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hmm.. I would prefer a more ergonomic design mouse than a ambidextrous one though, had a Steelseries Xai that felt not so comfortable for me..


What's your sensitivity in FPS games? I bet the EC1 EVO would work well for you as long as you don't need any drivers and as long as you aren't using a ridiculously low sens.


----------



## fl0werAvA

Steelseries rival, avior 7000 and g502
Imo the best one is g502 (using it atm reli good grip)


----------



## lucentshade

I only play MOBA, sensitivity as in DPI/CPI? I use around 800-1200, depends. The coating of Naos is quite nice tho, I sweat sometimes during long sessions and it didn't become greasy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fl0werAvA*
> 
> Steelseries rival, avior 7000 and g502
> Imo the best one is g502 (using it atm reli good grip)


Did G502 just came out not long ago? It's the same price as Naos/Avior 7000. What sensor does it use? (it's not long I care so much but still curious)


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peilis*
> 
> So no other mouse suggestion?


EC2 or Savu, that's pretty much it.

If you want a straight up Abyssus replacement, G100s.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> I only play MOBA, sensitivity as in DPI/CPI? I use around 800-1200, depends. The coating of Naos is quite nice tho, I sweat sometimes during long sessions and it didn't become greasy.
> Did G502 just came out not long ago? It's the same price as Naos/Avior 7000. What sensor does it use? (it's not long I care so much but still curious)


3366


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 3366


Is there a problem with this sensor?

How about Roccat Kone Pure Optical?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Is there a problem with this sensor?
> 
> How about Roccat Kone Pure Optical?


Not even in the slightest is there any issues with this sensor.

KPO is using the 4000 CPI SROM for a 3090 which has more input latency than most even modern sensors like the 3310.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi guys, I am here again. I just got my Naos 7000 for a few days. Unfortunately I found out that my grip is actually more like a fingertip grip rather than full palm grip, so I planned to return the mouse. The mouse was awesome, the driver and customization software was pretty good. But I would need to get another mouse, any suggestions? Previously I stated I was looking at Steelseries Rival, Razer DA2013 Logitech. Any input?
> 
> Thanks.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hmm.. I would prefer a more ergonomic design mouse than a ambidextrous one though, had a Steelseries Xai that felt not so comfortable for me..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> I only play MOBA, sensitivity as in DPI/CPI? I use around 800-1200, depends. The coating of Naos is quite nice tho, I sweat sometimes during long sessions and it didn't become greasy.
> Did G502 just came out not long ago? It's the same price as Naos/Avior 7000. What sensor does it use? (it's not long I care so much but still curious)


Zowie EC2 (450/1150/2300 dpi), Roccat Savu (400 dpi steps), Roccat Kone Pure/Kone Pure Optical (100 dpi steps). Those are smaller ergonomical mice but not as small as Razer Abyssus, Logitech G100s and alike.

**Edit**
Savu offers 400-800-1600-4000 dpi
Kone Pure Optical offers 400-800-1200-1600-2000-3200-4000 dpi
I'm sorry, I used those 2 mice in the past. I forgot about correct dpi options and I only got back to my former mouse because both were a little bit too small for my hand. Other than that I had no concerns about them. Their surface feel good/"quality" in your hand and cursor tracking feels very responsive, if you ask me.

However, you might be interested in their new Tyon mouse. Was announced at Computex 2014 today. It has a lot of buttons, that may or may not be useful for you. I can't say anything precise since I just found about it myself a few hours ago.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not even in the slightest is there any issues with this sensor.
> 
> KPO is using the 4000 CPI SROM for a 3090 which has more input latency than most even modern sensors like the 3310.


Seriously, metal... Did you feel any input lag on KPO? I didn't.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Seriously, metal... Did you feel any input lag on KPO? I didn't.


I did on a G400s, before I knew what smoothing was so I know at least some 4000 CPI SROM 3090 mice have that issue. It felt "draggy"


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Zowie EC2 (450/1150/2300 dpi), Roccat Savu (400 dpi steps), Roccat Kone Pure/Kone Pure Optical (100 dpi steps). Those are smaller ergonomical mice but not as small as Razer Abyssus, Logitech G100s and alike.
> 
> **Edit**
> Savu offers 400-800-1600-4000 dpi
> Kone Pure Optical offers 400-800-1200-1600-2000-3200-4000 dpi
> I'm sorry, I used those 2 mice in the past. I forgot about correct dpi options and I only got back to my former mouse because both were a little bit too small for my hand. Other than that I had no concerns about them. Their surface feel good/"quality" in your hand and cursor tracking feels very responsive, if you ask me.
> 
> However, you might be interested in their new Tyon mouse. Was announced at Computex 2014 today. It has a lot of buttons, that may or may not be useful for you. I can't say anything precise since I just found about it myself a few hours ago.


Ugh why are we even mentioning that Tyon, it has a 9800...


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I did on a G400s, before I knew what smoothing was so I know at least some 4000 CPI SROM 3090 mice have that issue. It felt "draggy"


I did not ask you about G400s. Same sensor arch doesn't mean exact same feeling/behavior/whatnot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Ugh why are we even mentioning that Tyon, it has a 9800...


Nevermind, seems like another guy said he'd play MOBAs. However, afaik 9800 got updates reducing "smoothing".


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I did not ask you about G400s. Same sensor arch doesn't mean exact same feeling/behavior/whatnot.
> Nevermind, seems like another guy said he'd play MOBAs. However, afaik 9800 got updates reducing "smoothing".


SROM is on the sensor itself, firmware CANNOT correct for that.

The problem with the 9800 is not just the smoothing which has been greatly reduced; it's the inconsistent positive acceleration making repetitive movements nondeterministic.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Seriously, metal... Did you feel any input lag on KPO? I didn't.


Did they improve on the Savu's implementation? Because the A3090 in the Savu has noticeable smoothing.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Did they improve on the Savu's implementation? Because the A3090 in the Savu has noticeable smoothing.


This is mainly why I assumed the KPO wouldn't be much different.

And also as I said, SROM is not something the manufacturer can modify, only Pixart.


----------



## Lysergic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I suppose if you don't lift your mouse up often the Mionix Naos 7000 would be great for you. That leaves some, but not much, monetary room to pair it with something like a QcK or Roccat Taito depending on how fast you want your pad, latter is the faster one.


Thanks for the reply, after having noticed where the coating is worn off on my roccat kone i would actually say that i use a fingertip grip, since the kone is to low for my palm to rest on it. I just never really noticed that before.
The Noas 7000 or the Avior 7000 cost close to 91 $ here at the cheapest place. Was about to go in that price range but was hoping for something a little cheaper and maybe different now i found out about the fingertip grip, I've looked at an Roccat Kone Pure Optical or Steelseries Rival but I'm at a lost for a mouse that would give be that great precision my first deathadder give but the comfort and grip of my kone.

Quoted another reply as i think we're looking for the same thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Hi guys, I am here again. I just got my Naos 7000 for a few days. Unfortunately I found out that my grip is actually more like a fingertip grip rather than full palm grip, so I planned to return the mouse. The mouse was awesome, the driver and customization software was pretty good. But I would need to get another mouse, any suggestions? Previously I stated I was looking at Steelseries Rival, Razer DA2013 Logitech. Any input?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## hza

Then you could wait for Kone Pure Military. Has 3310 sensor instead of 3090. Should be available this fall.


----------



## ThornTwist

Actually Lysergic makes a good point. I actually think I use fingertip grip as well. I haven't made my purchases yet and was wondering if the mouse that was suggested to me still applies.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lysergic*
> 
> Thanks for the reply, after having noticed where the coating is worn off on my roccat kone i would actually say that i use a fingertip grip, since the kone is to low for my palm to rest on it. I just never really noticed that before.
> The Noas 7000 or the Avior 7000 cost close to 91 $ here at the cheapest place. Was about to go in that price range but was hoping for something a little cheaper and maybe different now i found out about the fingertip grip, I've looked at an Roccat Kone Pure Optical or Steelseries Rival but I'm at a lost for a mouse that would give be that great precision my first deathadder give but the comfort and grip of my kone.
> 
> Quoted another reply as i think we're looking for the same thing.


Avior 7000 is basically the fingertip mouse, other than the FK. I have both.


----------



## kremtok

OP should change the title of this thread to '[Official] Avior 7000 Recommendation Thread'


----------



## Atavax

The Roccat wired pyra is a small claw grip mouse with a 400, 800, and 1600dpi step. Uses the same sensor as the steelseries kana but doesn't inflate the max dpi like the kana does. Its 90g. And the max speed i can achieve on mine is over 4m/s. Beware, when i say its small, its SMALL. Smallest mouse i've ever used...


----------



## lucentshade

Anyone here have a G502? Can you share your experience and your opinions about it?

Thanks


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Anyone here have a G502? Can you share your experience and your opinions about it?
> 
> Thanks


Mouse is very heavy, but if you have a low friction mousepad (rough, or hardpad) it should reduce the glide weight.

If you palm (this is comfortable with the G502) be sure to watch your thumb length because the "sniper" G6 button will be there and you can press it accidentally. My thumb is about 7cm and I barely reach the button btw.

Mouse sensor - this is very good, I come from using a 3305DK of Bloody V8. The G502 sensor (3366) is very raw and precise, it doesn't have angle snapping or accel. I can snipe better with the G502 because it doesn't force small movements into straight lines. (BF4, M40A5 with 4x)

Quality - mouse feels solid and the clicks are very crisp (omron 20m: df2c-f7-n), but the scroll wheel is too heavy, sometimes when you "flick" it, the wheel takes a moment to stop (I personally don't like it). Mouse feet - the edges of the feet catches dust extremely easy, on the same environment my V8 doesn't have this issue (weird).

For $55 this is a very solid choice. (640000 IDR)


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Mouse is very heavy, but if you have a low friction mousepad (rough, or hardpad) it should reduce the glide weight.
> 
> If you palm (this is comfortable with the G502) be sure to watch your thumb length because the "sniper" G6 button will be there and you can press it accidentally. My thumb is about 7cm and I barely reach the button btw.
> 
> Mouse sensor - this is very good, I come from using a 3305DK of Bloody V8. The G502 sensor (3366) is very raw and precise, it doesn't have angle snapping or accel. I can snipe better with the G502 because it doesn't force small movements into straight lines. (BF4, M40A5 with 4x)
> 
> Quality - mouse feels solid and the clicks are very crisp (omron 20m: df2c-f7-n), but the scroll wheel is too heavy, sometimes when you "flick" it, the wheel takes a moment to stop (I personally don't like it). Mouse feet - the edges of the feet catches dust extremely easy, on the same environment my V8 doesn't have this issue (weird).
> 
> For $55 this is a very solid choice. (640000 IDR)


You sure it's only $55? I searched for it on Amazon and it's $79.99, I think it's a new product..


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> You sure it's only $55? I searched for it on Amazon and it's $79.99, I think it's a new product..


I'm pretty sure my receipt for the G502 says 640K IDR (55USD) :/


----------



## Yodums

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucentshade*
> 
> Anyone here have a G502? Can you share your experience and your opinions about it?
> 
> Thanks


There's a huge thread devoted to discussion on this mouse. Has a great sensor, but its design, ergonomics, and quality are horrible. It's a very heavy mouse, and a lot of people are reporting the feet on their mouse are peeling off.


----------



## lucentshade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> I'm pretty sure my receipt for the G502 says 640K IDR (55USD) :/


I think you bought in when it's on sale.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yodums*
> 
> There's a huge thread devoted to discussion on this mouse. Has a great sensor, but its design, ergonomics, and quality are horrible. It's a very heavy mouse, and a lot of people are reporting the feet on their mouse are peeling off.


Thanks! I will check it out, feel sad to hear it though, I kinda like it :/


----------



## bhshawon

What's your grip style? palm
What's your sensitivity? low, but I'm not sure, maybe 800-1600
What's your maximum budget? 60$ max, cheaper won't hurt
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, 2 extra buttons are nice, but don't want too many
What games do you play? Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)
Do you mind about prediction? Whats this?
Other relevant information:
I prefer rubberized surface, don't like too colorful mice(a small glowing logo is okay), not too heavy either
My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhshawon*
> 
> What's your grip style? palm
> What's your sensitivity? low, but I'm not sure, maybe 800-1600
> What's your maximum budget? 60$ max, cheaper won't hurt
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, 2 extra buttons are nice, but don't want too many
> What games do you play? Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)
> Do you mind about prediction? Whats this?
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer rubberized surface, don't like too colorful mice, not too heavy either
> My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


I think a DeathAdder 2013 with the lights disabled in the drivers should work fine for your purpose.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhshawon*
> 
> What's your grip style? palm
> What's your sensitivity? low, but I'm not sure, maybe 800-1600
> What's your maximum budget? 60$ max, cheaper won't hurt
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, 2 extra buttons are nice, but don't want too many
> What games do you play? Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)
> Do you mind about prediction? Whats this?
> Other relevant information:
> *I prefer rubberized surface*, don't like too colorful mice(a small glowing logo is okay), not too heavy either
> My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think a *DeathAdder 2013* with the lights disabled in the drivers should work fine for your purpose.


The Deathadder 2013 is not rubberized, not even close, except for the side grips. The Deathadder has a sandpapery feel to it. Very unpleasant, at least to me.

Maybe something from Zowie. EC2, AM/FK.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> The Deathadder 2013 is not rubberized, not even close, except for the side grips. The Deathadder has a sandpapery feel to it. Very unpleasant, at least to me.
> 
> Maybe something from Zowie. EC2, AM/FK.


He didn't specify whether grips are fine or if the whole thing had to be rubberized.

None of the Zowie mice are rubberized except the EC1 EVO CL to my knowledge. I have a 2013 FK now and it is very slippery.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> He didn't specify whether grips are fine or if the whole thing had to be rubberized.
> 
> None of the Zowie mice are rubberized except the EC1 EVO CL to my knowledge. I have a 2013 FK now and it is very slippery.


Yea, i am not very familiar with Zowie, which is why i said maybe. Seems like i remember reading somewhere though that the FK 2014 was more rubberized with the finish change they made.


----------



## Atavax

pretty sure the fk and the cl have the same coating


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> Yea, i am not very familiar with Zowie, which is why i said maybe. Seems like i remember reading somewhere though that the FK 2014 was more rubberized with the finish change they made.


It's just a coating change, not necessarily rubberized. I don't know either about the FK, but the EVO CL I'm pretty sure is.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> He didn't specify whether grips are fine or if the whole thing had to be rubberized.
> 
> None of the Zowie mice are rubberized except the EC1 EVO CL to my knowledge. I have a 2013 FK now and it is very slippery.


You find the FK slippery? How about the Avior then? I got EC1 eVo CL, Avior and Naos. All got very bad coating imo. Probably doesn't matter that much for fingertip grip, but I have a very hard time lifting all these mice because they are very slippery.


----------



## Krucid

I tried a EC1 regular before and thought it was way slippery, but i don't find the Avior nowhere near as bad. Once you get playing it starts to stick, at least for me.

However, i do agree they should find a more grippy material for mice that will also last


----------



## DivineDark

For Zowie, you could always go with the glossy finish. I find them much easier to lift than the soft touch coated mice. I think I'm one of the rare people that has just moderate moisture buildup on their hands. People that sweat too much tend to hate glossy coatings.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> I tried a EC1 regular before and thought it was way slippery, but i don't find the Avior nowhere near as bad. Once you get playing it starts to stick, at least for me.
> 
> However, i do agree they should find a more grippy material for mice that will also last


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> You find the FK slippery? How about the Avior then? I got EC1 eVo CL, Avior and Naos. All got very bad coating imo. Probably doesn't matter that much for fingertip grip, but I have a very hard time lifting all these mice because they are very slippery.


What Krucid said. The Zowie gets more slippery when I sweat just a little on my hand while playing, but the Avior sticks better once I sweat.


----------



## Krucid

So i am looking for a mouse for my wife. She has a claw grip. She doesn't really play fps like i do, (csgo), but she does play stuff like borderlands 2 with me from time to time. She mostly plays gw2, rts, games of that nature.

I do want to get her a good mouse but nothing really expensive like the Avior as that is overkill for her considering the price. I would like to keep it around 35.00 or less. I have learned a lot from you guys and have narrowed it down to a few mice, but i still prefer the input from you all.

She has medium size hands and she def wants her thumb buttons.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> So i am looking for a mouse for my wife. She has a claw grip. She doesn't really play fps like i do, (csgo), but she does play stuff like borderlands 2 with me from time to time. She mostly plays gw2, rts, games of that nature.
> 
> I do want to get her a good mouse but nothing really expensive like the Avior as that is overkill for her considering the price. I would like to keep it around 35.00 or less. I have learned a lot from you guys and have narrowed it down to a few mice, but i still prefer the input from you all.
> 
> She has medium size hands and she def wants her thumb buttons.


What mice are you thinking of? The only mouse I know of in that price range is really the G100s and that doesn't have side buttons


----------



## Krucid

I was thinking mainly the CM Xornet/Spawn. It has at least omrons in it. The switches in her old mouses is what always fails.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> I was thinking mainly the CM Xornet/Spawn. It has at least omrons in it. The switches in her old mouses is what always fails.


I have used the CM Spawn which I found to be extremely comfortable. The switches are great and the sensor is decent with the most recent firmware. The main issue for me is the cord which is far and away the worst I have used. It's thick and very inflexible which is particularly noticeable because the mouse itself is light. The cord on mice isnt usually something that troubles me too much, but on this mouse it's a serious flaw.

I had an early version of the Spawn and I've seen some posts suggesting that they may have updated the cord in later versions of the Spawn and in the Xornet. Does anyone else know?

If you want a cheap alternative with side buttons then it's worth considering the Microsoft Intellimouse. You can still get them from takasta's shop on eBay if I'm right. No frills but if you don't mind 400dpi and having to manually overclock the USB port to get 500hz then it's one of the best bang for your buck gaming mice.


----------



## Amnise

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Quote:


> *What's your grip style?*
> Mostly finger, although I rest my lower fingers / base of palm on the mouse during normal computer use. My hands are huge, so completely palming is not happening.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 1800 DPI
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> EDIT: $50-$70
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Minimum is scroll button + 2 thumb buttons. More are great but not required
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Mostly action & RPG - Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, Skyrim. Some FPS, but not too competitive.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> A little bit
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Right handed.
> 
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> Light weight. I had back luck with Razor so far, so not their mice.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

I already have a Deathadder Black 3.5G and like it, but it's shape never made me completely happy. It fits my hands and is someway comfortable, but I think it could be better.


What's your grip style?
Right handed palm grip. Would not like a mouse bigger than the DA.
What's your sensitivity?
1000 - 2000DPI
What's your maximum budget?
$80-100
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, maybe 2 at the left side, but I don't care if it has more
What games do you play?
Mostly competitive FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Not much, but wouldn't like a sensor with a big one.
Other relevant information:
I'd like a small LOD, medium to low weight, wired, a easy-to-grip surface material and medium to low button activation force.
Thanks!


----------



## Vorgier

Guess I'll try again for a reply.

What's your grip style? Right handed fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Currently, 1800 DPI.
What's your maximum budget? 60~
Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are nice.
What games do you play? MMOs, Shooters, general.
Do you mind about prediction? Yes

Have been using a Death Adder for _years_. Tried a logitech G500, and a G602 and hated the way they felt. Prefer a lighter, wired mouse like the DA.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorgier*
> 
> Guess I'll try again for a reply.
> 
> What's your grip style? Right handed fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Currently, 1800 DPI.
> What's your maximum budget? 60~
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are nice.
> What games do you play? MMOs, Shooters, general.
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> 
> Have been using a Death Adder for _years_. Tried a logitech G500, and a G602 and hated the way they felt. Prefer a lighter, wired mouse like the DA.


Steelseries Rival and Zowie EC1 are somewhat similar to DA.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> I already have a Deathadder Black 3.5G and like it, but it's shape never made me completely happy. It fits my hands and is someway comfortable, but I think it could be better.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Right handed palm grip. Would not like a mouse bigger than the DA.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1000 - 2000DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> $80-100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, maybe 2 at the left side, but I don't care if it has more
> What games do you play?
> Mostly competitive FPS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not much, but wouldn't like a sensor with a big one.
> Other relevant information:
> I'd like a small LOD, medium to low weight, wired, a easy-to-grip surface material and medium to low button activation force.
> Thanks!


Zowie EC1 EVO
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorgier*
> 
> Guess I'll try again for a reply.
> 
> What's your grip style? Right handed fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Currently, 1800 DPI.
> What's your maximum budget? 60~
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are nice.
> What games do you play? MMOs, Shooters, general.
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> 
> Have been using a Death Adder for _years_. Tried a logitech G500, and a G602 and hated the way they felt. Prefer a lighter, wired mouse like the DA.


Zowie FK, EC1 EVO


----------



## ref

What's your grip style? *Right handed palm grip*
What's your sensitivity? *2000 DPI*
What's your maximum budget? *No budget*
Do you want additional buttons? *I'd prefer one with one button on the side, but it's not necessary.*

What games do you play? *Everything. Shooters, RPGs, MOBAs, RTS, etc.
*
Do you mind about prediction? *Never even heard of it, so I guess no. I'm using a Logitech G5 at the moment, not sure if it has it or not.*
Other relevant information: *Would prefer a 'bigger' mouse. For example, the G5/Razer Naga all felt good to me. For comparison, I don't think something as 'flat' like the Razer Deathadder would be comfortable to me. Wired, low-to-medium weight*


----------



## PirateZ

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
1.Not sure but i always preferred bigger mice.
2.1600 DPI
3.$50
4.A couple could help but not necessity.
5.Mostly RPG like Skyrim,kingdom of Amalur,Dark Souls,Witcher 2 and some FPS like Far cry 3,Splinter cell 3.
6.Do not know.
7.I never used mice above $15.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PirateZ*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 1.Not sure but i always preferred bigger mice.
> 2.1600 DPI
> 3.$50
> 4.A couple could help but not necessity.
> 5.Mostly RPG like Skyrim,kingdom of Amalur,Dark Souls,Witcher 2 and some FPS like Far cry 3,Splinter cell 3.
> 6.Do not know.
> 7.I never used mice above $15.


Bigger mice with 1600 DPI = Steelseries Rival, Mionix Naos, Razer Deathadder, Logitech G502. Zowie EC1 is also very big but doesn't got a 1600 DPI step, 450/1150/2300 DPI.


----------



## LDV617

@PirateZ

Highly recommend the SS Rival, on US amazon for $39 and has an awesome feel, as well as customization.


----------



## Dezzyo

*What's your grip style?*
I believe it's referred to as a fingertip grip? My wrist/palm is on my desk while my knuckle area is on the mouse.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Right now I have it on ~5700 but I'm sure I could get used to anything.
*What's your maximum budget?*
I'd like to keep it under ~80 USD
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I'd like at least 3 but not more than 6ish
*What games do you play?*
I mainly play Dota 2 and CS:GO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I'm not quite sure what that is? I'm assuming it means acceleration in which case I'd prefer not.

*
Other relevant information:*

My g500 has 3 4.5g weights and a 1.7g weight which is I think about 177g in total maybe?

So I currently have a g500 and I only have a few problems with it.
1.) The Braided cable frayed within a month of me getting it and it gets caught on my mixer and it's extremely annoying.
2.) It doesn't track very well on my mousepad (An EG Goliathus) although it never tracked perfectly so I'm not sure if the mousepad is entirely the problem
3.) The thumb buttons are a bit too far back, making the furthest back button unnatural to press.

Bonus points if the mouse LEDs are customizable or blue by default.

I'm thinking of going to for the g502 but I'd like some more input.


----------



## DivineDark

G502 sounds like it's right up your alley. I love mine. I just have some mouse feet problems. Outside of that, the mouse was flawless.


----------



## PirateZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Bigger mice with 1600 DPI = Steelseries Rival, Mionix Naos, Razer Deathadder, Logitech G502. Zowie EC1 is also very big but doesn't got a 1600 DPI step, 450/1150/2300 DPI.


I could change my DPI as well.

What do you think about logitech G400s,Roccat Pyra,Lua,Razer Abyssus.


----------



## clawlan

I need a new mouse. The catch is that I am a right arm amputee so the mouse needs to be lefty friendly. Also, I need a lot of buttons on the mouse, as I map as many functions to them as possible (shoot, reload, aim, crouch, run, melee, grenade, jump, etc). I am currently using a Razer Lachesis (9 button) which has served me well over the years but is starting to look a little worse for wear. Suggestion?


What's your grip style? - Fingertip mostly
What's your sensitivity? - high
What's your maximum budget? - what budget
Do you want additional buttons? yes, many
What games do you play? - FPS
Other relevant information: see above


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clawlan*
> 
> I need a new mouse. The catch is that I am a right arm amputee so the mouse needs to be lefty friendly. Also, I need a lot of buttons on the mouse, as I map as many functions to them as possible (shoot, reload, aim, crouch, run, melee, grenade, jump, etc). I am currently using a Razer Lachesis (9 button) which has served me well over the years but is starting to look a little worse for wear. Suggestion?
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - Fingertip mostly
> What's your sensitivity? - high
> What's your maximum budget? - what budget
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, many
> What games do you play? - FPS
> Other relevant information: see above


Alright man... I'm going to do something that I've never done in my history of mouse nerd-dom... I'm going to recommend a Razer Naga 2014 Lefty... I hate Philips Twin-Eye Laser mice, and am not a fan of the Naga at all, but I think it will fit you well. You're already familiar with the sensor, as it's the same thing that's in your Lachesis. It has a load of buttons that will make your life much easier. It'll help you in game, as well as desktop use, as it can minimize some hand to keyboard movement with some creative key binds. Top it off, it's lefty and readily available.

http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Naga-Handed-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00EO2ECUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401988245&sr=8-1&keywords=razer+naga+left


----------



## clawlan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Alright man... I'm going to do something that I've never done in my history of mouse nerd-dom... I'm going to recommend a Razer Naga 2014 Lefty... I hate Philips Twin-Eye Laser mice, and am not a fan of the Naga at all, but I think it will fit you well. You're already familiar with the sensor, as it's the same thing that's in your Lachesis. It has a load of buttons that will make your life much easier. It'll help you in game, as well as desktop use, as it can minimize some hand to keyboard movement with some creative key binds. Top it off, it's lefty and readily available.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Naga-Handed-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00EO2ECUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401988245&sr=8-1&keywords=razer+naga+left


Didn't realize they released that in lefty. I'll have to stop at a store and try it out. thanks.


----------



## Adonis

*What's your grip style?* - I use my thumb and ring/pinky fingers to grip the mouse. I pick the mouse up sometimes using these fingers, and my pointer and middle finger rest on M1 and M2 buttons relaxed. I mostly use my wrist to move the mouse. Not sure what this style would fall under.

*What's your sensitivity?* - High as possible usually.

*What's your maximum budget?* - $80

*Do you want additional buttons?* - I need forward/back buttons.

*What games do you play?* - FPS/MOBA

*Do you mind about prediction?* - Don't care.

*Other relevant information:* - I've used my MX518 for a lonnng time and would like something very similar to this to transition to. I want comfort over all, period. I use my mouse 8+ hours a day sometimes and need it to be very comfortable and to last a long time as my MX518 did. I've also tried the CM Storm Xornet but hated it, if that helps. Thank you.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* - I use my thumb and ring/pinky fingers to grip the mouse. I pick the mouse up sometimes using these fingers, and my pointer and middle finger rest on M1 and M2 buttons relaxed. I mostly use my wrist to move the mouse. Not sure what this style would fall under.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* - High as possible usually.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* - $80
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* - I need forward/back buttons.
> 
> *What games do you play?* - FPS/MOBA
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* - Don't care.
> 
> *Other relevant information:* - I've used my MX518 for a lonnng time and would like something very similar to this to transition to. I want comfort over all, period. I use my mouse 8+ hours a day sometimes and need it to be very comfortable and to last a long time as my MX518 did. I've also tried the CM Storm Xornet but hated it, if that helps. Thank you.


Easy one, here. G400 or G502. Take your pick. Same exact shape you're used to, solid sensors, and great build quality.


----------



## Swar1ey

1.What's your grip style?
Most of the time its palm, sometimes finger tip grip.

2.What's your sensitivity?
Low sens - I usually have it so I can do about a 520 degree spin of movement on a Qck Heavy (17.7in W).

3.What's your maximum budget?
$100 or so, im easy there.

4.Do you want additional buttons?
I prefer to have a forward and back button but I can live without it if needed.

5.What games do you play?
FPS's

6.Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer not to have it

7.Other relevant information:
I've been out of the game for awhile, in the past I used and loved Logitech MX300, MS 3.0 and the original DeathAdder. I've been looking at the Minoix Avior 7000, Zowie EC2 (I think id like the smaller size) and the G502 but im just not too sure.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swar1ey*
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> Most of the time its palm, sometimes finger tip grip.
> 
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> Low sens - I usually have it so I can do about a 520 degree spin of movement on a Qck Heavy (17.7in W).
> 
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> $100 or so, im easy there.
> 
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> I prefer to have a forward and back button but I can live without it if needed.
> 
> 5.What games do you play?
> FPS's
> 
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> I would prefer not to have it
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I've been out of the game for awhile, in the past I used and loved Logitech MX300, MS 3.0 and the original DeathAdder. I've been looking at the Minoix Avior 7000, Zowie EC2 (I think id like the smaller size) and the G502 but im just not too sure.


The Avior is really only suitable for fingertip grip, palm won't work so well with it. If you liked the original DA, You'd really like the EC1 EVO, the EC2 EVO is just a smaller size version of it. The Avior's sensor is higher performing however and also has more CPI steps to work with.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PirateZ*
> 
> What do you think about logitech G400s,Roccat Pyra,Lua,Razer Abyssus.


I have the Roccat Lua and I think it's a great little mouse: good switches, good shape, good sensor if you don't mind a bit of prediction. But you said that you were after a large mouse. The Roccat Lua is tiny and probably wouldn't fit what you're after unless you fancy a change.

If you're after a large mouse I'd recommend:

- Mionix Avior 7000
- Logitech G400 (not the "s" version)
- Razer Deathadder Black Edition (not the "2013" version)
- Logitech G502 (I haven't used this but it has great reviews)

Depending on where you are some of those may be over your budget. Otherwise simply take whichever looks most comfortable and go with that. They're all great mice so you won't be sorry.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* - I use my thumb and ring/pinky fingers to grip the mouse. I pick the mouse up sometimes using these fingers, and my pointer and middle finger rest on M1 and M2 buttons relaxed. I mostly use my wrist to move the mouse. Not sure what this style would fall under.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* - High as possible usually.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* - $80
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* - I need forward/back buttons.
> 
> *What games do you play?* - FPS/MOBA
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* - Don't care.
> 
> *Other relevant information:* - I've used my MX518 for a lonnng time and would like something very similar to this to transition to. I want comfort over all, period. I use my mouse 8+ hours a day sometimes and need it to be very comfortable and to last a long time as my MX518 did. I've also tried the CM Storm Xornet but hated it, if that helps. Thank you.


I agree with what DivineDark said here. The G400 (not the "s" version) is the natural successor to the MX518. Exactly the same shape and an improved sensor. By all accounts the G502 is also a very good mouse although I haven't tried it myself.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swar1ey*
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> Most of the time its palm, sometimes finger tip grip.
> 
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> Low sens - I usually have it so I can do about a 520 degree spin of movement on a Qck Heavy (17.7in W).
> 
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> $100 or so, im easy there.
> 
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> I prefer to have a forward and back button but I can live without it if needed.
> 
> 5.What games do you play?
> FPS's
> 
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> I would prefer not to have it
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I've been out of the game for awhile, in the past I used and loved Logitech MX300, MS 3.0 and the original DeathAdder. I've been looking at the Minoix Avior 7000, Zowie EC2 (I think id like the smaller size) and the G502 but im just not too sure.


If you liked the original Deathadder then it's still a very good choice today. Look for the Deathadder 3.5G or the Deathadder Black Edition (rather than the Deathadder 2013 which has a laggy sensor). You should still be able to find them quite easily on ebay or Amazon.

The Avior 7000 is also a good choice if you fancy something new.

I haven't tried the other mice.


----------



## bhshawon

I've posted this before but the only suggestion I got was Deathadder 2013 and I don't like its cloud based software. So I'm posting it again.

What's your grip style? *palm*
What's your sensitivity? *800-1600, maybe lower*
What's your maximum budget? *60$*
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2-3 extra buttons*
What games do you play? *Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)*
Do you mind about prediction? *Whats this?*

Other relevant information:
I prefer rubberized surface
My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhshawon*
> 
> I've posted this before but the only suggestion I got was Deathadder 2013 and I don't like its cloud based software. So I'm posting it again.
> 
> What's your grip style? *palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *800-1600, maybe lower*
> What's your maximum budget? *60$*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2-3 extra buttons*
> What games do you play? *Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Whats this?*
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer rubberized surface
> My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


Check out Zowie's EC Series or maybe a Steelseries Rival. If you an afford around 20 more dollars then you could also check out the Mionix Avior/Naos 7000 and the Logitech G502. There is plenty of threads around here discussing each of these mice in great detail.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhshawon*
> 
> I've posted this before but the only suggestion I got was Deathadder 2013 and I don't like its cloud based software. So I'm posting it again.
> 
> What's your grip style? *palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *800-1600, maybe lower*
> What's your maximum budget? *60$*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2-3 extra buttons*
> What games do you play? *Dota mostly, and RPGs sometimes(I absolutly hate fps shooters)*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Whats this?*
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer rubberized surface
> My hand length is 7.5 inches from wrist to the tip of middle finger


Three mice that I think would be good for palm grip are:

- Logitech G400
- Mionix Avior 7000
- Deathadder 3.5G

I don't normally palm grip mice so take this with a pinch of salt. In particular, I've seen posts where metal (the resident authority here on the Avior 7000) doesn't recommend the Avior 7000 for palm grip. From my experience it felt quite comfortable resting the whole of my hand on the mouse, but metal may have a different (and more informed) view on this one.

I know that you don't like Razer's cloud based software, but if I'm correct you can still use the Deathadder 3.5G with legacy drivers. You might have to look around to find a download link. Another thing to bear in mind is that you can always install the drivers to set up the mouse and uninstall them afterwards. If all you want to do is set up DPI and polling rate then this information is stored on the onboard memory.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a rubberized surface. All of these mice have a soft-touch rubber coating albeit to varying degrees (the G400 only on the sides, the Deathadder only on the top, and the Avior 7000 all over). I've never had a problem gripping any of the mice but others sometimes have issues. If what you mean is fully rubber grips then you may want to look at the Steelseries Rival. I've never tried the mouse, so I can't recommend it personally, but there are a few reviews on the forum that you may want to check out.

I'm not sure what prices are like where you live so sorry if any of those suggestions are out of budget.

Hope that helps and sorry you had to wait for another answer.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> Three mice that I think would be good for palm grip are:
> 
> - Logitech G400
> - Mionix Avior 7000
> - Deathadder 3.5G
> 
> I don't normally palm grip mice so take this with a pinch of salt. In particular, I've seen posts where metal (the resident authority here on the Avior 7000) *doesn't recommend the Avior 7000 for palm grip*. From my experience it felt quite comfortable resting the whole of my hand on the mouse, but metal may have a different (and more informed) view on this one.
> 
> I know that you don't like Razer's cloud based software, but if I'm correct you can still use the Deathadder 3.5G with legacy drivers. You might have to look around to find a download link. Another thing to bear in mind is that you can always install the drivers to set up the mouse and uninstall them afterwards. If all you want to do is set up DPI and polling rate then this information is stored on the onboard memory.
> 
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by a rubberized surface. All of these mice have a soft-touch rubber coating albeit to varying degrees (the G400 only on the sides, the Deathadder only on the top, and the Avior 7000 all over). I've never had a problem gripping any of the mice but others sometimes have issues. If what you mean is fully rubber grips then you may want to look at the Steelseries Rival. I've never tried the mouse, so I can't recommend it personally, but there are a few reviews on the forum that you may want to check out.
> 
> I'm not sure what prices are like where you live so sorry if any of those suggestions are out of budget.
> 
> Hope that helps and sorry you had to wait for another answer.


I own and use my Avior everyday. It can be used for palm grip. However, just some people don't like the right side buttons as they do stick out further than other ambidextrous mice. If you palm the Avior you will feel those buttons. It doesn't bother me so it just depends on the person. However, to say you cannot palm the Avior with comfort is just not true. It just depends on the person.

The Logitech G400 has a right side lip that is far more irritating than extra side buttons on the Avior. Again, my opinion, but it caused my ring finger to get sore.

The Deathadder black edition would be a good choice as it is rubber on the entire mouse if i am not mistaken.


----------



## metal571

The Avior can be used for palm grip for smaller hands, the Rival is an awesome mouse for palm grips cause it's enormous. However the Avior's buttons will possibly annoy you if you try to palm it. It's more of a fingertip mouse.

lol resident authority, meh, not really. I like the mouse a lot that's all because it fits my grip and performs awesomely.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Avior can be used for palm grip for smaller hands, the Rival is an awesome mouse for palm grips cause it's enormous. However the Avior's buttons will possibly annoy you if you try to palm it. It's more of a fingertip mouse.
> 
> lol resident authority, meh, not really. I like the mouse a lot that's all because it fits my grip and performs awesomely.


Wanted to buy the Avior SK (the color scheme is quite good).

How does it compare to a Zowie FK? If I recon correctly, you have both!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Wanted to buy the Avior SK (the color scheme is quite good).
> 
> How does it compare to a Zowie FK? If I recon correctly, you have both!


The SK is exactly the same mouse on the inside so you're good.

Yeah I have the FK as well, it's basically a much smaller mouse that works great for fingertip and is more nimble and lighter but the sensor is very limited in settings. I don't notice any difference in terms of input lag on my 144 Hz monitor between the two.


----------



## erikrotsthen

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI

What's your maximum budget?
I don't have a budget

Do you want additional buttons?
No.

What games do you play?
MOBA, FPS and RTS.

Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want prediction.

Other relevant information: Low LOD, ambidextrous shape.


----------



## uNfEiL

*What's your grip style?*
palm

*What's your sensitivity?*
I have been using 800 DPI for about 5 years

*What's your maximum budget?*
40 €

*Do you want additional buttons?*
At least 2 for browser (forward/backward)

*What games do you play?*
League of Legends / Osu! / CS:GO / sometimes BF 4

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I would prefer not to have it because of Osu, CS.

*Other relevant information:*
I've been using my MX518 for about 5 years now 8+ hours a day.
I am deciding between Logitech G400 or A4Tech Bloody V3. What do you think about V3 mouse? Also, does it have prediction enabled / disabled?


----------



## icetorch

*What's your grip style?*
I can palm, fingertip, or claw.
*What's your sensitivity?*
800-1000 dpi
*What's your maximum budget?*
$80 but prefer to save.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't mind them, they can help in some games.
*What games do you play?*
FPS, RTS, MMO, MOBA
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No as long as I can turn it off.
*Other relevant information:*
I have small hands and I'm used to mouses in the 50-120 gram range but I can adapt. I'm in a dilemma right now because originally I just wanted the Cooler Master Spawn but following CES, I've seen the Evga Torq X10 ($50) and the Logitech G502. I've heard they fixed the issues of the Avago 9800 sensor on the Evga. Do you think it would be worth it to spend the extra $30 on the Logitech G502?

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erikrotsthen*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> I don't have a budget
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No.
> 
> What games do you play?
> MOBA, FPS and RTS.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't want prediction.
> 
> Other relevant information: Low LOD, ambidextrous shape.


Mionix Naos 7000, SteelSeries Rival
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> palm
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> I have been using 800 DPI for about 5 years
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 40 €
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> At least 2 for browser (forward/backward)
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> League of Legends / Osu! / CS:GO / sometimes BF 4
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I would prefer not to have it because of Osu, CS.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I've been using my MX518 for about 5 years now 8+ hours a day.
> I am deciding between Logitech G400 or A4Tech Bloody V3. What do you think about V3 mouse? Also, does it have prediction enabled / disabled?


I would go with the G400 for sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icetorch*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I can palm, fingertip, or claw.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 800-1000 dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> $80 but prefer to save.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I don't mind them, they can help in some games.
> *What games do you play?*
> FPS, RTS, MMO, MOBA
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No as long as I can turn it off.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I have small hands and I'm used to mouses in the 50-120 gram range but I can adapt. I'm in a dilemma right now because originally I just wanted the Cooler Master Spawn but following CES, I've seen the Evga Torq X10 ($50) and the Logitech G502. I've heard they fixed the issues of the Avago 9800 sensor on the Evga. Do you think it would be worth it to spend the extra $30 on the Logitech G502?
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


I HIGHLY doubt that anyone has "fixed" the 9800, as the issues with that sensor are inherent in the sensor low level firmware, and is not adjustable by manufacturer. Go with the G502, that's a damn good mouse.


----------



## LDV617

@ Avago 9800 questions

http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2091787

Don't know how truthful the article is but here it is.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> @ Avago 9800 questions
> 
> http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2091787
> 
> Don't know how truthful the article is but here it is.


PR lies


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> PR lies


That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## FlashFir

What's your grip style?
*Claw with fingertip like movement, never lifting the mouse since I use high sensitivity. See next.*
What's your sensitivity?
*~3 inches/360 @ 1800dpi*
What's your maximum budget?
*40-50, 60-70 would have to justify the value added!*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Would be nice to have. Went from a Salmosa to Tron (which is trash but the extra buttons for sensitivity were useful!)*
What games do you play?
*Dota 2, FPS (TF2 6v6), CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction?
*I think I do! Shouldn't everyone want no prediction? I remember reading about mice a lot a year ago but now pretty certain that bst's mouse is vaporware.*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*Why I'm moving:*
I had a Salmosa, used it to death, loved it but wanted buttons to change DPI on the fly for TV CAM missile on BF3. Got a Tron mouse (shudder) - horrible ergonomics but I've been using it for the better part of 3+ years and I'm used to it now.

After reading about BST's mouse and getting into competitive TF2 as a scout, I realize how much mice can affect FPS games. Now if I play I play Dota 2. However, my Tron mouse middle click sometimes double presses causing me to open duplicate tabs or close multiple tabs which is kind of irritating.

*Other factors:*
For me something that's important is size... I've touched other mice that use take your whole hand and they feel pretty uncomfortable. Unless this is a common thing that people get over, I'd imagine something similar to Salmosa/Tron size as opposed to ... something larger like one of the Logitech Gxxx I've put my hands on.

*WHAT?*
Xornet is so cheap! Price is a factor since I'm not gaming too much on my rig now. Time to look at this see what people say about it... If sensor is good I might just bite on this.
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/122042/frys---cooler-master-storm-xornet-2000-dpi-wired-gaming-mouse


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> PR lies


and people wonder why we are so skeptical of good news... those PR liars makes us have to assume everything they say is a lie until we confirm it ourselves...


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> and people wonder why we are so skeptical of good news... those PR liars makes us have to assume everything they say is a lie until we confirm it ourselves...


offcourse you can confirm yourself just mail avago/pixart and ask them









I think I will do that right know


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> and people wonder why we are so skeptical of good news... those PR liars makes us have to assume everything they say is a lie until we *confirm it ourselves*...


No one would want to buy another A9800/derivative mouse. I'd say just put the sensor status to EOL and move on with it.


----------



## Adonis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Easy one, here. G400 or G502. Take your pick. Same exact shape you're used to, solid sensors, and great build quality.


I just got the G502 in the mail and I hate it.

The right click makes a horrible rattle anytime I lift my finger off it. Very annoying. I hate this mouse.. Can someone recommend a more quality built/sturdy mouse?

My OP in this thread:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* - I use my thumb and ring/pinky fingers to grip the mouse. I pick the mouse up sometimes using these fingers, and my pointer and middle finger rest on M1 and M2 buttons relaxed. I mostly use my wrist to move the mouse. Not sure what this style would fall under.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* - High as possible usually.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* - $80
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* - I need forward/back buttons.
> 
> *What games do you play?* - FPS/MOBA
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* - Don't care.
> 
> *Other relevant information:* - I've used my MX518 for a lonnng time and would like something very similar to this to transition to. I want comfort over all, period. I use my mouse 8+ hours a day sometimes and need it to be very comfortable and to last a long time as my MX518 did. I've also tried the CM Storm Xornet but hated it, if that helps. Thank you.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> I just got the G502 in the mail and I hate it.
> 
> The right click makes a horrible rattle anytime I lift my finger off it. Very annoying. I hate this mouse.. Can someone recommend a more quality built/sturdy mouse?
> 
> My OP in this thread:


Mionix Naos 7000


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> I just got the G502 in the mail and I hate it.
> 
> The right click makes a horrible rattle anytime I lift my finger off it. Very annoying. I hate this mouse.. Can someone recommend a more quality built/sturdy mouse?


Go for G400 if you liked your MX518.


----------



## Adonis

Went with the Naos 7000. If for some chance I hate it, I'll get the g400. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adonis*
> 
> I just got the G502 in the mail and I hate it.
> 
> The right click makes a horrible rattle anytime I lift my finger off it. Very annoying. I hate this mouse.. Can someone recommend a more quality built/sturdy mouse?


Hello friend, what about *CM Storm Alcor*?

*Some comparison of Alcor to G400:*
Quote:


> _"I usually use a G400 and got an Alcor yesterday.
> 
> It is a very light mouse, I like that. It could be a little bit larger for my hand, but it fits very fine and is easy to lift. Build quality is good, would like a smooth wheel material instead of the knobs. Side buttons are okay, I am used to a different feel there, but I think I can adjust. The wheel was very nice, produces some noise but its rather low and not annoying.
> 
> You can lift, drop and move it fast without it making noise or clicking mouse buttons through force/by accident. Try that with a G502.
> 
> Besides that: GREAT shape, great grip - the sensor is also, as often mentioned already, flawless. Not quite as supreme as that of the G502, but this mouse allows for effortless gaming. Might be even too light for some people, but it's nicely balanced. Maybe something for those who can't grab the Avior due to size.
> 
> I recommend this mouse, only minor things that are not quite to my liking. Would rate this to be on the same level as my preferred G400 without S, no gaudy colors and so on. Just a slightly different shape, a bit like a small Intellimouse Explorer if you still remember those."_


----------



## khazix

Hi guys.

First sorry for faults, English is not my first language.

My g500 is ending its life, and i should buy another mice.

I would like to get the best current mice because i play a lot at video games.

I wonder what is the best one, but I'm interested by both naos 7000 and 8200, which seem being bery good mice.

And I dont want which is the best one between these mice.

I prefer a wired mouse, and for right-handed (like the naos 7000 ans 8200).

Well, what is the best mouse for u please?

Thanks.


----------



## DivineDark

You don't need to post this in two threads, brother. Once is good enough.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khazix*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> First sorry for faults, English is not my first language.
> 
> My g500 is ending its life, and i should buy another mice.
> 
> I would like to get the best current mice because i play a lot at video games.
> 
> I wonder what is the best one, but I'm interested by both naos 7000 and 8200, which seem being bery good mice.
> 
> And I dont want which is the best one between these mice.
> 
> I prefer a wired mouse, and for right-handed (like the naos 7000 ans 8200).
> 
> Well, what is the best mouse for u please?
> 
> Thanks.


Definitely not the 8200 one. I have read somewhere on this forum that 7000 has got the better sensor.


----------



## jsx3

Both sensors are actually fairly similar relating to hardware capability and design.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Both sensors are actually fairly similar relating to hardware capability and design.


But unfortunately Pixart still hasn't corrected the 9800's inconsistent accel, so the 7000 is the one you want.


----------



## Superplush

Wow, I've never visited this corner of OC.net before. I hope it's friendlier than the news sections and has less monsters that like to hide under bridges.









So, I'm in the market for a new mouse and I would like some adivce from the experts!

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip, depends on the size of the mouse though. I seem to have "larger" finger length.
*What's your sensitivity?* I prefer smooth mice but I've had a range. Latest being a 3500 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* I could stretch to £70 - £80 in the long run
*Do you want additional buttons?* Not really, one side, lmb /rmb is usually enough for me.
*What games do you play?* RTS, Planetside 2, MMO's
*Do you mind about prediction?* Personally I'd like without.
*Other relevant information:*
I've tried a variety of mice over the years. Notable ones: Microsoft Habu, Razer Copperhead, Razer Mamba, R.A.T 7 and current have a R.A.T 3 to "tide" me over. ( Having problems with the Quality of the R.A.T mice ) Weight isn't much of a problem, I'm don't think it's necessary for extra profile saving, etc. I would prefer a right-handed mouse but ambi is fine.
Any help you could give me would be appreciated, at the moment I've been looking at the G502, CM storm Alcor, Naos 7000 and the SS Rival.


----------



## katfulhuz

I'm currently using a WMO with palm grip @ 400 DPI. We could say that my budget is infinite and I'd prefer only 3 buttons, but 5 or 7 buttons wouldn't hurt. I only play CS:GO and the most important thing about the mouse is the sensor, no prediction nor any acceleration, not too high LOD and preferably something lightweight and ambidextrous. Omron switches wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katfulhuz*
> 
> I'm currently using a WMO with palm grip @ 400 DPI. We could say that my budget is infinite and I'd prefer only 3 buttons, but 5 or 7 buttons wouldn't hurt. I only play CS:GO and the most important thing about the mouse is the sensor, no prediction nor any acceleration, not too high LOD and preferably something lightweight and ambidextrous. Omron switches wouldn't hurt either.


What's your reason for upgrading? The WMO's sensor hasn't been matched yet as far as "precision" is concerned. Almost all "gaming" mice released in the past 10 years have some kind of smoothing delay that manufacturers implement in order to put a higher DPI number on the box.

Unless you need the mouse to automatically be 500-1000hz, or the malfunction speed is too low, the MLT04 sensor is still unmatched as far as ingame accuracy/precision is concerned.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The WMO's sensor hasn't been matched yet as far as "precision" is concerned.


Not true.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Not true.


We've been having a lengthy discussion about this in the g502 thread, and the consensus is that it *is* true. So you're going to have to provide more than two words to back up your claim.


----------



## TK421

Prove smoothing on the 3366


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Prove smoothing on the 3366


You should have a look in the g502 thread. All of this was discussed.


----------



## katfulhuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What's your reason for upgrading? The WMO's sensor hasn't been matched yet as far as "precision" is concerned. Almost all "gaming" mice released in the past 10 years have some kind of smoothing delay that manufacturers implement in order to put a higher DPI number on the box.
> 
> Unless you need the mouse to automatically be 500-1000hz, or the malfunction speed is too low, the MLT04 sensor is still unmatched as far as ingame accuracy/precision is concerned.


A broken scroll wheel and low malfunction rate.


----------



## JNKA

Hello guys!
first time posting hear i hope u can help me somehow.

*1.What's your grip style?*
claw.

*2.What's your sensitivity?*
800dpi.

*3.What's your maximum budget?*
60€.

*4.Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons for push-to-talk ,etc.

*5.What games do you play?*
CS:GO , LoL , Dayz , WoW/Wildstar.

*6.Do you mind about prediction?*
prefer not to because of CS.

*7.Other relevant information:*
used the Deathadder 3.5G for a long time and really like the shape of the deathadder/need a big mouse.
not sure if i should go for the Rival ,the DA 2013 or something else.


----------



## Trull

Why not another DA 3.5G?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

The Rival is a very thin mouse. I'd stick with a DA if you like the shape. There are some DA versions that are better than others but I'm not sure which.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The Rival is a very thin mouse. I'd stick with a DA if you like the shape. There are some DA versions that are better than others but I'm not sure which.


The Rival is bigger but yeah no guarantees that shape is gonna work. Also, a claw grip with a Rival? That's nearly impossible.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Rival is bigger but yeah no guarantees that shape is gonna work. Also, a claw grip with a Rival? That's nearly impossible.


Rival bigger than the DA? That can't be right...

Wow... so apparently it's .5mm wider and a few mm longer... It must be that the Rival gets much thinner at the front while the DA is roughly the same throughout. Because the Rival cramped my hand really bad, but the DA didn't.

Also, I didn't mind claw and fingertip grips with the Rival because the side grips/coating on it are really good.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Rival bigger than the DA? That can't be right...
> 
> Wow... so apparently it's .5mm wider and a few mm longer... It must be that the Rival gets much thinner at the front while the DA is roughly the same throughout. Because the Rival cramped my hand really bad, but the DA didn't.
> 
> Also, I didn't mind claw and fingertip grips with the Rival because the side grips/coating on it are really good.


Yeah it is bigger. I know cause I owned one. Fingertip worked okay but hated the cable and the weight despite the awesome side grips. AVIOR is just a better mouse.


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Wow, I've never visited this corner of OC.net before. I hope it's friendlier than the news sections and has less monsters that like to hide under bridges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm in the market for a new mouse and I would like some adivce from the experts!
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip, depends on the size of the mouse though. I seem to have "larger" finger length.
> *What's your sensitivity?* I prefer smooth mice but I've had a range. Latest being a 3500 DPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* I could stretch to £70 - £80 in the long run
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Not really, one side, lmb /rmb is usually enough for me.
> *What games do you play?* RTS, Planetside 2, MMO's
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Personally I'd like without.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I've tried a variety of mice over the years. Notable ones: Microsoft Habu, Razer Copperhead, Razer Mamba, R.A.T 7 and current have a R.A.T 3 to "tide" me over. ( Having problems with the Quality of the R.A.T mice ) Weight isn't much of a problem, I'm don't think it's necessary for extra profile saving, etc. I would prefer a right-handed mouse but ambi is fine.
> Any help you could give me would be appreciated, at the moment I've been looking at the G502, CM storm Alcor, Naos 7000 and the SS Rival.


If you wouldn't mind answering my request please. I would like to hear any suggestions on the non-mainstream companies ( I personally never heard of Naos before looking into it this week)


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> If you wouldn't mind answering my request please. I would like to hear any suggestions on the non-mainstream companies ( I personally never heard of Naos before looking into it this week)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Wow, I've never visited this corner of OC.net before. I hope it's friendlier than the news sections and has less monsters that like to hide under bridges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm in the market for a new mouse and I would like some adivce from the experts!
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip, depends on the size of the mouse though. I seem to have "larger" finger length.
> *What's your sensitivity?* I prefer smooth mice but I've had a range. Latest being a 3500 DPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* I could stretch to £70 - £80 in the long run
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Not really, one side, lmb /rmb is usually enough for me.
> *What games do you play?* RTS, Planetside 2, MMO's
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Personally I'd like without.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I've tried a variety of mice over the years. Notable ones: Microsoft Habu, Razer Copperhead, Razer Mamba, R.A.T 7 and current have a R.A.T 3 to "tide" me over. ( Having problems with the Quality of the R.A.T mice ) Weight isn't much of a problem, I'm don't think it's necessary for extra profile saving, etc. I would prefer a right-handed mouse but ambi is fine.
> Any help you could give me would be appreciated, at the moment I've been looking at the G502, CM storm Alcor, Naos 7000 and the SS Rival.


G502 has arguably the best sensor available right now for modern sensors (3366). It's shape works well with all grips. Great build quality. However, some hate the sniper button and depending on how you hold it, your thumb may come in constant contact with it. Also, the G502 has feet peeling issue, although, they may be fixing it. The G502 is a heavier mouse, 121 grams. To me it felt like sliding a brick around. All in all a decent mouse, but the shell could have been a whole lot better.

Naos 7000 is a true palm grip mouse and it has arguably the second best sensor available (3310). It has rubber coating on the entire shell that can be slippery if you have dry hands. If you sweat even a little though, it will be a joy to hold and use. Naos has no issues that i am aware of with the shell. It weighs around 103 grams.

Avior 7000 is a fingertip/claw grip ambidextrous mouse also made by Mionix with the same sensor as the Naos (3310). It has the same rubber coating and again no issues with the shell that i am aware of. Some people do not like the right side buttons as they do stick out further than other ambidextrous mice. It weighs around100 grams.

Zowie FK, EC2/EC1 are some other recommendations that you may like that are really good mice. As far as the Rival and Storm i have no experience with those mice. I am sure some other posters here will be glad to help.

All the mice mentioned have great sensors and are probably more than enough to satisfy your needs. So in the end get what you think will fit and be the most comfortable to you.


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> G502 has arguably the best sensor available right now for modern sensors (3366). It's shape works well with all grips. Great build quality. However, some hate the sniper button and depending on how you hold it, your thumb may come in constant contact with it. Also, the G502 has feet peeling issue, although, they may be fixing it. The G502 is a heavier mouse, 121 grams. To me it felt like sliding a brick around. All in all a decent mouse, but the shell could have been a whole lot better.
> 
> Naos 7000 is a true palm grip mouse and it has arguably the second best sensor available (3310). It has rubber coating on the entire shell that can be slippery if you have dry hands. If you sweat even a little though, it will be a joy to hold and use. Naos has no issues that i am aware of with the shell. It weighs around 103 grams.
> 
> Avior 7000 is a fingertip/claw grip ambidextrous mouse also made by Mionix with the same sensor as the Naos (3310). It has the same rubber coating and again no issues with the shell that i am aware of. Some people do not like the right side buttons as they do stick out further than other ambidextrous mice. It weighs around100 grams.
> 
> Zowie FK, EC2/EC1 are some other recommendations that you may like that are really good mice. As far as the Rival and Storm i have no experience with those mice. I am sure some other posters here will be glad to help.
> 
> All the mice mentioned have great sensors and are probably more than enough to satisfy your needs. So in the end get what you think will fit and be the most comfortable to you.


Thank you for the great information and insight into some of these mice. I'd never heard of the Zowie, even then the Mionix mice are looking tempting.

I have heard of the G502 problems, I don't think the weight would be an issue for me but the sniper and feet do seem like something that'll need to be addressed. Even though it looks brilliant for a mouse I have come to trust Logitech a little more than Razer or Mad Catz R.A.T mice ( I've had 2 die on me in under a year )

I would like to hear alittle about the 'other' mice you couldn't tell me about, the Rival and Storm however I would like to thank you again for alot of great insights into these muskas.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Thank you for the great information and insight into some of these mice. I'd never heard of the Zowie, even then the Mionix mice are looking tempting.
> 
> I have heard of the G502 problems, I don't think the weight would be an issue for me but the sniper and feet do seem like something that'll need to be addressed. Even though it looks brilliant for a mouse I have come to trust Logitech a little more than Razer or Mad Catz R.A.T mice ( I've had 2 die on me in under a year )
> 
> I would like to hear alittle about the 'other' mice you couldn't tell me about, the Rival and Storm however I would like to thank you again for alot of great insights into these muskas.


The Rival is very good now but the build quality and reliability are not up to par. Same sensor as the Avior and Naos 7000.

The Alcor is, well, a very good mouse in terms of just about everything but you are using an inferior SROM for the sensor that's in there. I would still wait for the Alcor V2 if I were to consider that mouse.

My vote is always going to go with the Avior since I adore mine. Also, I'm a fingertip and it works extremely well for fingertip grips.


----------



## daav1d

I think the Alcor feels fine. But the mouse feet sucks, I have only used the mouse for like 20 minutes then put it in my drawer, and now one feet is gone...


----------



## M3thodx

*What's your grip style?*

Varies. I tend to have a hybrid palm/fingertip grip a majority of the time, while shifting to claw during tense moments.

*What's your sensitivity?*

800 - 1800 (800, 1400, or 1800 depending on what I'm doing.)

*What's your maximum budget?*

80 - 90 USD

*Do you want additional buttons?*

DPI control buttons + 2 side buttons is preferred.

*What games do you play?*

Osu! mainly, FPS (CS:GO, source games, etc.), MMO, bits of everything else.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

More against prediction than for it.

*Other relevant information:*

I've gone from a MX518 (loved it to death) to a 2012 naga as my current mouse, both of which used on a cheap Walmart cloth pad. Currently looking at the Avior 7000 (maybe not so much the naos since I'm leaning towards an ambidextrous shape), Zowie FK/EC1/EC2, SS Rival, Deathadder, and G400.

I'd say the Avior peaks my interest the most, but would like more insight between the above choices. (and any other recommendations not listed)
Also, mousepad recommendations would be great as well.

Thanks.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3thodx*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Varies. I tend to have a hybrid palm/fingertip grip a majority of the time, while shifting to claw during tense moments.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 800 - 1800 (800, 1400, or 1800 depending on what I'm doing.)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> 80 - 90 USD
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> DPI control buttons + 2 side buttons is preferred.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Osu! mainly, FPS (CS:GO, source games, etc.), MMO, bits of everything else.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> More against prediction than for it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I've gone from a MX518 (loved it to death) to a 2012 naga as my current mouse, both of which used on a cheap Walmart cloth pad. Currently looking at the Avior 7000 (maybe not so much the naos since I'm leaning towards an ambidextrous shape), Zowie FK/EC1/EC2, SS Rival, Deathadder, and G400.
> 
> I'd say the Avior peaks my interest the most, but would like more insight between the above choices. (and any other recommendations not listed)
> Also, mousepad recommendations would be great as well.
> 
> Thanks.


Your grip is almost identical to mine and i have the Avior 7000 and i can't sing its praises enough. It's a beautiful, high quality device. Great sensor and shell. Only issue to some people is the right side buttons do stick out enough that your fingers will rub up against them during your palm grip moments.

Also, if you have bone dry hands it can be slippery. However, if you sweat even just a little, it sticks like glue.

I rock a Zowie Speed mat and my Avior slides like butter across it.


----------



## DrockinWV

[*] *What's your grip style?*

More fingertip grip but will use palm grip when gaming gets intense

[*] *What's your sensitivity?*

Still have not found my sweet spot, but currently experimenting between 400-1200 (PC noob)

[*] *What's your maximum budget?*

Would like to stay under $100USD but open to better options

[*] *Do you want additional buttons?*

Would like to at least have buttons to adjust DPI, a few other buttons would be welcomed

[*] *What games do you play?*

All different types, but mostly FPS

[*] *Do you mind about prediction?*

Not too sure what prediction is in a mouse, I know I have never experienced this option

[*] *Other relevant information:*

I currently own a Logitech G700s and I do really like it. I like the layout and it fits pretty good in my hand. The reason I bought it was I was gaming on my couch at the time so I needed wireless. Since moving from my TV to a monitor I no longer need wireless capibilities, the batteries are terrible and dont last very long at all, and when plugged in the cord throws off the entire balance of the mouse while playing FPS. I currently use a Logitech G240 cloth gaming mouse pad, if that helps on the decisions. Thanks in advance guys!!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrockinWV*
> 
> [*] *What's your grip style?*
> 
> More fingertip grip but will use palm grip when gaming gets intense
> 
> [*] *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Still have not found my sweet spot, but currently experimenting between 400-1200 (PC noob)
> 
> [*] *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Would like to stay under $100USD but open to better options
> 
> [*] *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Would like to at least have buttons to adjust DPI, a few other buttons would be welcomed
> 
> [*] *What games do you play?*
> 
> All different types, but mostly FPS
> 
> [*] *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Not too sure what prediction is in a mouse, I know I have never experienced this option
> 
> [*] *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I currently own a Logitech G700s and I do really like it. I like the layout and it fits pretty good in my hand. The reason I bought it was I was gaming on my couch at the time so I needed wireless. Since moving from my TV to a monitor I no longer need wireless capibilities, the batteries are terrible and dont last very long at all, and when plugged in the cord throws off the entire balance of the mouse while playing FPS. I currently use a Logitech G240 cloth gaming mouse pad, if that helps on the decisions. Thanks in advance guys!!


Avior 7000 is awesome for fingertip grips.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3thodx*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Varies. I tend to have a hybrid palm/fingertip grip a majority of the time, while shifting to claw during tense moments.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 800 - 1800 (800, 1400, or 1800 depending on what I'm doing.)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> 80 - 90 USD
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> DPI control buttons + 2 side buttons is preferred.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Osu! mainly, FPS (CS:GO, source games, etc.), MMO, bits of everything else.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> More against prediction than for it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I've gone from a MX518 (loved it to death) to a 2012 naga as my current mouse, both of which used on a cheap Walmart cloth pad. Currently looking at the Avior 7000 (maybe not so much the naos since I'm leaning towards an ambidextrous shape), Zowie FK/EC1/EC2, SS Rival, Deathadder, and G400.
> 
> I'd say the Avior peaks my interest the most, but would like more insight between the above choices. (and any other recommendations not listed)
> Also, mousepad recommendations would be great as well.
> 
> Thanks.


Yeah the Avior is awesome. I use it with a Puretrak Talent but other mats of interest might be the QcK+/Heavy and the G-TF Speed.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? *I prefer smooth mice but I've had a range. Latest being a 3500 DPI*


Prefer "smooth mice"? What does that mean?

In what scenario are you using 3500DPI? You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Rival is very good now but the build quality and reliability are not up to par. Same sensor as the Avior and Naos 7000.
> 
> The Alcor is, well, a very good mouse in terms of just about everything but you are using an inferior SROM for the sensor that's in there. I would still wait for the Alcor V2 if I were to consider that mouse.
> 
> My vote is always going to go with the Avior since I adore mine. Also, I'm a fingertip and it works extremely well for fingertip grips.


I think I'll go for the Avior, I can pick one up for £55 and I think thats more than reasonable for a decent mouse with afew good words from people behind it.

Oh, if you don't mind me asking; Mouse-mats, is there a type of surface people prefer? At the moment I just have a standard pad but my GF has a Razer Destructer and it feels really smooth.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Prefer "smooth mice"? What does that mean?
> 
> In what scenario are you using 3500DPI? You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?


I assume in terms of FPS that would mean more angular granularity.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I assume in terms of FPS that would mean more angular granularity.


Have you personally tested that? I've heard about it but never tested to see if I could tell a difference. I think you even stated before that 400 DPI on your Avior felt better than higher DPI right?

So it seems like the angular granularity is mostly an untested theory until we have a mouse that performs well on high DPI settings.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> I think I'll go for the Avior, I can pick one up for £55 and I think thats more than reasonable for a decent mouse with afew good words from people behind it.
> 
> Oh, if you don't mind me asking; Mouse-mats, is there a type of surface people prefer? At the moment I just have a standard pad but my GF has a Razer Destructer and it feels really smooth.


Mouse mats are an extremely personal preference.

Some people want as close to 0 friction as possible, and others like myself want enough friction to provide stopping power without hindering the smallest movements. You can see in my signature I'm partial to a generic, large cloth pad which provides that ideal balance for me. Hard and plastic pads typically have less friction. Some hard pads also wear down mouse feet pretty fast.


----------



## leothelion

So I'm buying a new mouse after having used the ZOWIE EC2 (oldest version) for a long time and I absolutely loved the mouse. I recently bought the new EC2 eVo CL version but the sensor is terrible from my experience. I play with low sensitivity and move my mouse really fast in some situations and when I do that the crosshair goes straight up ingame and freezes, so I lose all control. I've looked for hair/dirt in the sensor but that's not the issue.

I googled and found out that they got a new manufacturer for the sensor and since then they haven't been as good, so I might try something new. I'm not an expert on mices however, so it might just be that I got a bad ex. of the mouse, so tell me if it's worth trading it in for a new one or if all the CL mices suffer from this.

Anyway, I don't want any of these mices: Kana v1/v2, Rival, Kinzu v1/v2, Sensei, Taipan, Deathadder or EC1. I'm looking for a simple medium sized mouse with a great sensor. Would prefer if it didn't have any prediction/accel.

Do I have to buy an older version of EC2 or is there a mouse out there that might suit me?

PS. I'm Swedish, so excuse me if my english isn't top notch.

Edit: How is Mionix Avior 7000?


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> So I'm buying a new mouse after having used the ZOWIE EC2 (oldest version) for a long time and I absolutely loved the mouse. I recently bought the new EC2 eVo CL version but the sensor is terrible from my experience. I play with low sensitivity and move my mouse really fast in some situations and when I do that the crosshair goes straight up ingame and freezes, so I lose all control. I've looked for hair/dirt in the sensor but that's not the issue.
> 
> I googled and found out that they got a new manufacturer for the sensor and since then they haven't been as good, so I might try something new. I'm not an expert on mices however, so it might just be that I got a bad ex. of the mouse, so tell me if it's worth trading it in for a new one or if all the CL mices suffer from this.
> 
> Anyway, I don't want any of these mices: Kana v1/v2, Rival, Kinzu v1/v2, Sensei, Taipan, Deathadder or EC1. I'm looking for a simple medium sized mouse with a great sensor. Would prefer if it didn't have any prediction/accel.
> 
> Do I have to buy an older version of EC2 or is there a mouse out there that might suit me?
> 
> PS. I'm Swedish, so excuse me if my english isn't top notch.


Just a quick question, what mousepad do you use?

The LOD on the cl version is lower than the older ec mice so maybe that is the issue.
Otherwise, I'll try to RMA the mouse.

I'm still using my evo CL and have not had that kind of issue so far.
I do play with a really slow sens too:

csgo sens: 1
dpi step: 450 at 500hz polling rate


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Have you personally tested that? I've heard about it but never tested to see if I could tell a difference. I think you even stated before that 400 DPI on your Avior felt better than higher DPI right?
> 
> So it seems like the angular granularity is mostly an untested theory until we have a mouse that performs well on high DPI settings.
> Mouse mats are an extremely personal preference.
> 
> Some people want as close to 0 friction as possible, and others like myself want enough friction to provide stopping power without hindering the smallest movements. You can see in my signature I'm partial to a generic, large cloth pad which provides that ideal balance for me. Hard and plastic pads typically have less friction. Some hard pads also wear down mouse feet pretty fast.


There's no "personal testing" involved. My point is very simple: play on 30cm/360 at 400 CPI then play on 30cm/360 on 3500 CPI and there is a far tighter and more granular ability to move on 3500. It's common sense.

Whether the sensor performs the same on all steps, that's up for debate. I really think the 3310's lower steps are better in terms of accuracy and input latency.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There's no "personal testing" involved. My point is very simple: play on 30cm/360 at 400 CPI then play on 30cm/360 on 3500 CPI and there is a far tighter and more granular ability to move on 3500. It's common sense.
> 
> Whether the sensor performs the same on all steps, that's up for debate. I really think the 3310's lower steps are better in terms of accuracy and input latency.


What do you mean there's no personal testing? How can you confirm the benefit from higher DPI for the same cm/360 if the sensor performs better on low DPI?

I understand that it's an established fact that there will be more angular granularity. But how can you test the effect as far as how it changes the feeling when you move your mouse around, aim, headshot, etc..


----------



## TK421

Best mousepad ever?



It's bigger than my QCK+ too

source


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What do you mean there's no personal testing? How can you confirm the benefit from higher DPI for the same cm/360 if the sensor performs better on low DPI?
> 
> I understand that it's an established fact that there will be more angular granularity. But how can you test the effect as far as how it changes the feeling when you move your mouse around, aim, headshot, etc..


Yeah my only initial point was that he probably meant he wants a smooth movement over actual sensor accuracy which is...well...wrong


----------



## leothelion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Just a quick question, what mousepad do you use?
> 
> The LOD on the cl version is lower than the older ec mice so maybe that is the issue.
> Otherwise, I'll try to RMA the mouse.
> 
> I'm still using my evo CL and have not had that kind of issue so far.
> I do play with a really slow sens too:
> 
> csgo sens: 1
> dpi step: 450 at 500hz polling rate


I'm using a SteelSeries QcK Heavy and have done so since forever and I usually get a new one every 2 months or so. I made a post on a Swedish gaming forum as well and another guy there had the exact same problem as me. I don't think it has anything to do with the LOD as it happens even when I don't lift the mouse. Like if I swipe the mice to left or right fast, the crosshair snaps right back and up.

I haven't changed the HZ on the mouse yet though, but should I really have to do that for it to work as it should? the mouse feels really instable compared to the older version that I used before.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> I'm using a SteelSeries QcK Heavy and have done so since forever and *I usually get a new one every 2 months or so.* I made a post on a Swedish gaming forum as well and another guy there had the exact same problem as me. I don't think it has anything to do with the LOD as it happens even when I don't lift the mouse. Like if I swipe the mice to left or right fast, the crosshair snaps right back and up.
> 
> I haven't changed the HZ on the mouse yet though, but should I really have to do that for it to work as it should? the mouse feels really instable compared to the older version that I used before.


Why?


----------



## leothelion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Why?


For better glide only. Mine wears down after a few months and I'm very nit-picking with such things.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> So I'm buying a new mouse after having used the ZOWIE EC2 (oldest version) for a long time and I absolutely loved the mouse. I recently bought the new EC2 eVo CL version but the sensor is terrible from my experience. I play with low sensitivity and move my mouse really fast in some situations and when I do that the crosshair goes straight up ingame and freezes, so I lose all control. I've looked for hair/dirt in the sensor but that's not the issue.
> 
> I googled and found out that they got a new manufacturer for the sensor and since then they haven't been as good, so I might try something new. I'm not an expert on mices however, so it might just be that I got a bad ex. of the mouse, so tell me if it's worth trading it in for a new one or if all the CL mices suffer from this.
> 
> Anyway, I don't want any of these mices: Kana v1/v2, Rival, Kinzu v1/v2, Sensei, Taipan, Deathadder or EC1. I'm looking for a simple medium sized mouse with a great sensor. Would prefer if it didn't have any prediction/accel.
> 
> Do I have to buy an older version of EC2 or is there a mouse out there that might suit me?
> 
> PS. I'm Swedish, so excuse me if my english isn't top notch.
> 
> Edit: How is Mionix Avior 7000?


Another suggestion for a mouse would be Roccat Kone Pure Military, if you like the size. I can only tell you it's smaller than MX518/G400. Never had a Zowie mouse. Also has a new 3310 sesnor in it and I could imagine they implemented it better than anyone else like they usually do.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> For better glide only. Mine wears down after a few months and I'm very nit-picking with such things.


lol... try a supermat next time. I've had mine for years and put it through the wash multiple times and it feels the same as when it was new.

Does the other guy having the same problem have the same (colored) mouse pad? Have you tested it on another surface? I've heard of mice having tracking problems on qck pads before.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I think the Alcor feels fine. But the mouse feet sucks, I have only used the mouse for like 20 minutes then put it in my drawer, and now one feet is gone...


Can you setup your DPI on Alcor do 950? (I already asked in another thread but haven't got any answer.)
Also, what does "drawer" mean? Eng is not my lang and I can't understand this word.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Also, what does "drawer" mean? Eng is not my lang and I can't understand this word.


https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=drawer


----------



## s0hei

What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Low Sens, 400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? dont care
Do you want additional buttons? only mouse4/5 for browsing
What games do you play? CSGO
Do you mind about prediction? dont know
Other relevant information: my intelli 1.1 broke ;( the new mouse should be like a intelli 1.1, i think about the kana v2 or zowie fk but dont know what to get


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0hei*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Low Sens, 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? dont care
> Do you want additional buttons? only mouse4/5 for browsing
> What games do you play? CSGO
> Do you mind about prediction? dont know
> Other relevant information: my intelli 1.1 broke ;( the new mouse should be like a intelli 1.1, i think about the kana v2 or zowie fk but dont know what to get


Buy another intelli if you can find one. Other mice haven't been able to match the "accuracy" of the MLT04 yet. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel inaccurate ingame.

If you had no problems with the 1.1, get another one.


----------



## s0hei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Buy another intelli if you can find one. Other mice haven't been able to match the "accuracy" of the MLT04 yet. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel inaccurate ingame.
> 
> If you had no problems with the 1.1, get another one.


okay, is there a problem to set a usb 3.0 port to 500 hz? i just find tutorials and they are for 2.0


----------



## Deluxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0hei*
> 
> okay, is there a problem to set a usb 3.0 port to 500 hz? i just find tutorials and they are for 2.0


There is no point using your usb 3 ports for a mouse, you could if you wanted to though.
I'd leave the usb3 ports for devices that can use that


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> lol... try a supermat next time. I've had mine for years and put it through the wash multiple times and it feels the same as when it was new.
> 
> Does the other guy having the same problem have the same (colored) mouse pad? Have you tested it on another surface? I've heard of mice having tracking problems on qck pads before.


Isn't Supermat only available in the US?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Isn't Supermat only available in the US?


Doesn't sound convincing.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0hei*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Low Sens, 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? dont care
> Do you want additional buttons? only mouse4/5 for browsing
> What games do you play? CSGO
> Do you mind about prediction? dont know
> Other relevant information: my intelli 1.1 broke ;( the new mouse should be like a intelli 1.1, i think about the kana v2 or zowie fk but dont know what to get


I don't agree with Max when he says that the MLT04 hasn't been matched by newer sensors in terms of "accuracy". But I agree with him that you should probably get another intelli 1.1. It's still a good mouse by today's standards and if you're already comfortable with it then I don't see any reason to change.

The only reason to get a new mouse would be if you like to overclock your intellimouse to 500hz and you plan to upgrade to Windows 8 (which currently doesn't allow you to do this). In that case, the Kana V2 and the Zowie FK that you've mentioned are both sensible options.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Can you setup your DPI on Alcor do 950? (I already asked in another thread but haven't got any answer.)
> Also, what does "drawer" mean? Eng is not my lang and I can't understand this word.


If they didn't recently released one there is no driver for Alcor.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Doesn't sound convincing.


Paying 20-30 EUR/USD for shipping isn't convincing either.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Paying 20-30 EUR/USD for shipping isn't convincing either.


Shipping costs more than the product

oh god xD


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Prefer "smooth mice"? What does that mean?
> 
> In what scenario are you using 3500DPI? You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?


Sorry for not getting around to you, I've been snowed under with quite afew posts to reply to.

I did mean the movement upon the mousemat. as for 3500DPI I did mean upon the Razer Copperhead control centre. I must admit I've never really fiddled with it beyond what it's been set at, I assume "You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?" means the mouse menu under windows. In which case Yes, pointer speed is 6 / 11 with the enhanced pointer precision off and oddly I do use a 14" screen @ 1440x900.

This is one of the problems, it might sound ... n00bie of me to say but beyond plugging the mouse in and installing the drivers. I don't mess around with it too much, I'd like to get into the competitive FPS or even just the online multiplayer FPS' and I know it's something I need to know. I get the feeling most people around here play on "Lower" DPS I did see recently posted on here that it is more responsive. I must admit the best mouse that I used was a MS Habu on low DPS, my Copperhead ( I think they're essentially the same mouse ) did well on low DPS for FPS'. Still I'd like to know








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Have you personally tested that? I've heard about it but never tested to see if I could tell a difference. I think you even stated before that 400 DPI on your Avior felt better than higher DPI right?
> 
> So it seems like the angular granularity is mostly an untested theory until we have a mouse that performs well on high DPI settings.
> Mouse mats are an extremely personal preference.
> 
> Some people want as close to 0 friction as possible, and others like myself want enough friction to provide stopping power without hindering the smallest movements. You can see in my signature I'm partial to a generic, large cloth pad which provides that ideal balance for me. Hard and plastic pads typically have less friction. Some hard pads also wear down mouse feet pretty fast.


I like smooth gliding whilst moving the mouse but lately I've been using my thumb as a "stopper" for things like headshots so maybe alittle more resistance would be nice. As somone else mentioned on here and when I noticed the mat in your sig, it does seem to be only sold in the U.S sadly the P&p costs kill


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Sorry for not getting around to you, I've been snowed under with quite afew posts to reply to.
> 
> I did mean the movement upon the mousemat. as for 3500DPI I did mean upon the Razer Copperhead control centre. I must admit I've never really fiddled with it beyond what it's been set at, I assume "You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?" means the mouse menu under windows. In which case Yes, pointer speed is 6 / 11 with the enhanced pointer precision off and oddly I do use a 14" screen @ 1440x900.
> 
> This is one of the problems, it might sound ... n00bie of me to say but beyond plugging the mouse in and installing the drivers. I don't mess around with it too much, I'd like to get into the competitive FPS or even just the online multiplayer FPS' and I know it's something I need to know. I get the feeling most people around here play on "Lower" DPS I did see recently posted on here that it is more responsive. I must admit the best mouse that I used was a MS Habu on low DPS, my Copperhead ( I think they're essentially the same mouse ) did well on low DPS for FPS'. Still I'd like to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like smooth gliding whilst moving the mouse but lately I've been using my thumb as a "stopper" for things like headshots so maybe alittle more resistance would be nice. As somone else mentioned on here and when I noticed the mat in your sig, it does seem to be only sold in the U.S sadly the P&p costs kill


Oh you're talking about the feet. I thought you meant how higher CPI at the same sensitivity makes the mouse more fluid and gives you more granularity.


----------



## Superplush

I do like the smoothness of the movement upon the mat. However I haven't really tested different CPI to see if it makes any differance and something tells me it will


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> I'm using a SteelSeries QcK Heavy and have done so since forever and I usually get a new one every 2 months or so. I made a post on a Swedish gaming forum as well and another guy there had the exact same problem as me. I don't think it has anything to do with the LOD as it happens even when I don't lift the mouse. Like if I swipe the mice to left or right fast, the crosshair snaps right back and up.
> 
> I haven't changed the HZ on the mouse yet though, but should I really have to do that for it to work as it should? the mouse feels really instable compared to the older version that I used before.


That's strange, I still have both my zowie ec evo and cl version and both did not had any issues on my old QcK heavy.
Both performs similarly since they share the same hardware. The only difference is the lower LOD, the coating and the scrollwheel on the cl one.

At this point, it seems you received a deffective product.

As for the mousepads, if you're spending money every 2 months for a QcK, you better invest in a more expensive and durable pad such as Artisan Hien (washable) for instance or maybe a puretrak talent.
Never looking back at Artisan pads since I used them.









hope that helps a bit


----------



## MaximilianKohler

There's not some other generic mouse pad you guys in Europe can buy? What about the http://www.allsop.com/mousepads-and-wrist-rests/mouse-pad-xl-raindrop/

Might have to resort to the qck+ if not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Sorry for not getting around to you, I've been snowed under with quite afew posts to reply to.
> 
> I did mean the movement upon the mousemat. as for 3500DPI I did mean upon the Razer Copperhead control centre. I must admit I've never really fiddled with it beyond what it's been set at, I assume "You have windows on 6/11 (middle) with EPP off right?" means the mouse menu under windows. In which case Yes, pointer speed is 6 / 11 with the enhanced pointer precision off and oddly I do use a 14" screen @ 1440x900.
> 
> This is one of the problems, it might sound ... n00bie of me to say but beyond plugging the mouse in and installing the drivers. I don't mess around with it too much, I'd like to get into the competitive FPS or even just the online multiplayer FPS' and I know it's something I need to know. I get the feeling most people around here play on "Lower" DPS I did see recently posted on here that it is more responsive. I must admit the best mouse that I used was a MS Habu on low DPS, my Copperhead ( I think they're essentially the same mouse ) did well on low DPS for FPS'. Still I'd like to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like smooth gliding whilst moving the mouse but lately I've been using my thumb as a "stopper" for things like headshots so maybe alittle more resistance would be nice. As somone else mentioned on here and when I noticed the mat in your sig, it does seem to be only sold in the U.S sadly the P&p costs kill


Isn't the copperhead a 2000 max dpi mouse? Was it updated with a new sensor recently?

For competitive FPS games you'll definitely want a different mouse. The copperhead is very accurate, but it has a very low malfunction speed. And you'll want to lower your sensitivity/dpi drastically for competitive FPS play. You simply won't be able to make small, precise movements, as well as consistent flick shots with that high sensitivity. The fact that you're having to use your thumb for stopping power means your sensitivity is way too high and/or your mousepad is too slick and not enough friction to provide that stopping power.

Currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all new mice have some kind of smoothing delay that causes them to feel inaccurate in FPS games. The IE 3.0 and Copperhead are the only two mice I've used that have not had this issue. The IE 3.0 has significantly higher malfunction speed though. I know you are used to using extremely high sensitivity/DPI, but it's really not a necessity.

New/recent mice pros & cons:
1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
2. High and adjustable DPI
3. Native 500-1000hz
4. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel imprecise in FPS games.

IE 3.0 pros & cons:
1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS games.
2. Only 400 DPI
3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is significantly higher than the copperhead (0.7m/s iirc) but lower than newer mice.
4. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 currently).

If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as *which* mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. I reviewed some of the latest and most popular ones here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> I don't agree with Max when he says that the MLT04 hasn't been matched by newer sensors in terms of "accuracy".


You've used a 9000fps version of the MLT04? Which mouse matches it in your opinion?


----------



## Housemania

What's your grip style?
palm but i want to move to claw
What's your sensitivity?
slow to med, but will increase it when ill go to claw
What's your maximum budget?
50-60$
Do you want additional buttons?
2 are enough
What games do you play?
fps mainly
Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction
Other relevant information:
I prefer light weight mouse and im really confused with all of the opinions, which lens is better, is 500hz or 1000hz and all of the other specs the gaming mouses have, but at the end of the day, lets say is zowie FK that better than a WMO or IE3? Is this gonna give you some kind of an advantage over the others. I'm really considering to buy a new mouse, coz my old a4 x-7(laser) is aint that bad, but the lift distance is anoying and on soft pad is jerking on fast movements. So is there point to get a new optical mouse or just a new hard pad will be enough?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Housemania*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm but i want to move to claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> slow to med, but will increase it when ill go to claw
> What's your maximum budget?
> 50-60$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 are enough
> What games do you play?
> fps mainly
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no prediction
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer light weight mouse and im really confused with all of the opinions, which lens is better, is 500hz or 1000hz and all of the other specs the gaming mouses have, but at the end of the day, lets say is zowie FK that better than a WMO or IE3? Is this gonna give you some kind of an advantage over the others. I'm really considering to buy a new mouse, coz my old a4 x-7(laser) is aint that bad, but the lift distance is anoying and on soft pad is jerking on fast movements. So is there point to get a new optical mouse or just a new hard pad will be enough?


Haha, wow.

First of all............ you play FPS games and you want to both move from palm grip to claw grip as well as raise your sensitivity...... Why would you ever want to do this.... FPS games are generally palm grip games. This is because palm grip puts more of your hand on the mouse, thus giving you greater control over fast, precise movements needed for fast headshotting. Yes there are exceptions of people using claw grip, but from what I've seen people who use claw grip for FPS games generally use a very low sensitivity to make up for the fact they have less contact and thus less control over the mouse.

Claw grip has no benefit over palm that I can think of... it's simply a more relaxed grip.

I wouldn't worry about lenses. Just look at reviews & forum threads of various mice, and then you might still have to try a few different ones because a lot of shape is personal preference.

Zowie is only better than WMO or IE3 in that it has a higher malfunction speed, and higher and adjustable DPI. DPI = sensitivity. DPI != accuracy.

You haven't posted what sensitivity you use in what game, so we don't have any idea of what kind of malfunction speed you'll need.

The WMO and IE3 have the MLT04 sensor, which is the most "raw" sensor to date. Almost all other "gaming" mice released in the past 10 years have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel inaccurate in FPS games. So if you don't need a high malfunction speed or high DPI, than the MLT04 mice will be the best option.

I had an a4tech x750bf (laser) mouse previously, and the switch to an IE 3.0 was a very significant improvement.


----------



## Housemania

Forget about the claw grip







.

By higher malfuction speed, you mean the mouse doesn't "jerk" at faster movements?

I don't have my computer with me and i cant say, but on CoD 4 i'm doing around 40cm for 360.

Are these ones from ebay for around 25-30$ original, like that one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-FOR-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Explorer-3-0-Optical-Mouse-Grey-As-photo-FAST-/321330470850?pt=Mice&hash=item4ad0c9dfc2


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There's not some other generic mouse pad you guys in Europe can buy? What about the http://www.allsop.com/mousepads-and-wrist-rests/mouse-pad-xl-raindrop/
> 
> Might have to resort to the qck+ if not.
> Isn't the copperhead a 2000 max dpi mouse? Was it updated with a new sensor recently?
> 
> For competitive FPS games you'll definitely want a different mouse. The copperhead is very accurate, but it has a very low malfunction speed. And you'll want to lower your sensitivity/dpi drastically for competitive FPS play. You simply won't be able to make small, precise movements, as well as consistent flick shots with that high sensitivity. The fact that you're having to use your thumb for stopping power means your sensitivity is way too high and/or your mousepad is too slick and not enough friction to provide that stopping power.
> 
> Currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all new mice have some kind of smoothing delay that causes them to feel inaccurate in FPS games. The IE 3.0 and Copperhead are the only two mice I've used that have not had this issue. The IE 3.0 has significantly higher malfunction speed though. I know you are used to using extremely high sensitivity/DPI, but it's really not a necessity.
> 
> New/recent mice pros & cons:
> 1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
> 2. High and adjustable DPI
> 3. Native 500-1000hz
> 4. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel imprecise in FPS games.
> 
> IE 3.0 pros & cons:
> 1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS games.
> 2. Only 400 DPI
> 3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is significantly higher than the copperhead (0.7m/s iirc) but lower than newer mice.
> 4. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 currently).
> 
> If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as *which* mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. I reviewed some of the latest and most popular ones here.
> You've used a 9000fps version of the MLT04? Which mouse matches it in your opinion?


Thank you for that, I keep getting the mice I'm using mixed up







I had a R.A.T 3 which was 3500 DPI, however when my GF's R.A.T 7 broke I gave it to her until she gets another one. I pulled my old Copperhead out of the box to replace my mouse, which is indeed 1000Hz / 2000 DPI.

So you're talking about competitive FPS gaming at what, 400 - 800 DPI ? I have to admit, playing on those mouse speeds seems really slow to me but I'm not used to them. ( the Copperhead goes 400,800,1800,2000 in the profile with 125, 500, 1000Hz polling rate.

Thank you guys for helping me understand the finer points of mice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Housemania*
> 
> Forget about the claw grip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> By higher malfuction speed, you mean the mouse doesn't "jerk" at faster movements?
> 
> I don't have my computer with me and i cant say, but on CoD 4 i'm doing around 40cm for 360.
> 
> Are these ones from ebay for around 25-30$ original, like that one?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-FOR-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Explorer-3-0-Optical-Mouse-Grey-As-photo-FAST-/321330470850?pt=Mice&hash=item4ad0c9dfc2


40cm/360? You're in for a world of nothing but pain if you try to play on that sensitivity with an IE 3.0 with that kind of game. Negative acceleration city.

I'd get something like a Rival if you want to do palm grip. I can't hit a single thing on palm, so I use fingertip which is much more precise for exact movements. Palm is way too coarse for my taste.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 40cm/360? You're in for a world of nothing but pain if you try to play on that sensitivity with an IE 3.0 with that kind of game. Negative acceleration city.
> 
> I'd get something like a Rival if you want to do palm grip. I can't hit a single thing on palm, so I use fingertip which is much more precise for exact movements. Palm is way too coarse for my taste.


Dude, 40cm/360 is nothing... neo typically played at 42cm/360 with his 1.1 during most of his CS career. I play at 47cm/360 most of the time. There are tons of pro gamers who used the MLT04 at lower sensitivities than 40cm/360 in both CS and quake.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Dude, 40cm/360 is nothing... neo typically played at 42cm/360 with his 1.1 during most of his CS career. I play at 47cm/360 most of the time. There are tons of pro gamers who used the MLT04 at lower sensitivities than 40cm/360 in both CS and quake.


I don't care who played on what. This isn't CS, read his post. COD4 requires far more sudden movements. Whoever played on that in Quake is almost guaranteed to be using acceleration, but regardless that's about the exact limit to about how low you can even function with that mouse, and that's after you get used to the negative acceleration, but don't malfunction.


----------



## leothelion

I recently bought a ZOWIE EC2 eVo CL and not so long before that a ZOWIE EC1 eVo and I'm having a problem with both of them. I play with really low sensitivity and always have, but when I swipe these mices really fast ingame my sensor snaps back and freezes.

I'm not exactly an expert on mouse sensors and I'd like to know why this happens? I used to have a ZOWIE EC2 Black (first version) and I never had this issue with it.

Have I got two broken mices or is this the case with all eVo/CL's? because if it is I'll have to buy the first version of EC2 again.

Edit: So I guess it has to do with the malfunction speed. Do anyone know where I can find info on the malfunctioning speed on ZOWIE EC2, EC2 eVo and EC2 eVo CL. It feels like it has gotten worse for every new version.


----------



## metal571

You can test it yourself by using enotus. My 2013 fk tops out around 3.5 m/s.


----------



## Pendulum

I've haven't looked into mice for a few years so I'm really out of the loop.
I'm wondering what mice would be suitable for fingertip grip, my G400 has grown uncomfortable and I've always gripped it tilted because of the indention for the thumb.
Would high sens cause a laser mouse to do more harm than good, especially while using a cloth pad?

Details
-FPS games mostly, I mostly play mid-ranged, usually with a AR/DMR
-3"-4" 360
-Cloth pad [QCK]
-2+ side buttons is a must
-Ambidextrous, as said above the right handed mice give me trouble with my grip.
-What to ignore, LoD , malfunction speed, brand, and price

The KinzuV2 was #1 on my list until I saw it didn't have any side buttons, which I abuse daily.








I'm looking into the following: Zowie AM, Mionix Avior SK, SS Sensei. <- I owned one, but it arrived DOA.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pendulum*
> 
> I've haven't looked into mice for a few years so I'm really out of the loop.
> I'm wondering what mice would be suitable for fingertip grip, my G400 has grown uncomfortable and I've always gripped it tilted because of the indention for the thumb.
> Would high sens cause a laser mouse to do more harm than good, especially while using a cloth pad?
> 
> Details
> -FPS games mostly, I mostly play mid-ranged, usually with a AR/DMR
> -3"-4" 360
> -Cloth pad [QCK]
> -2+ side buttons is a must
> -Ambidextrous, as said above the right handed mice give me trouble with my grip.
> -What to ignore, LoD , malfunction speed, brand, and price
> 
> The KinzuV2 was #1 on my list until I saw it didn't have any side buttons, which I abuse daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking into the following: Zowie AM, Mionix Avior SK, SS Sensei. <- I owned one, but it arrived DOA.


two small and light mice ambidextrous with 2 side buttons would be the zowie fk and the roccat wired pyra. (The pyra has 1 on each side, but you bind them to seperate actions, the fk has 2 on either side, but you can only have them bound to 2 different actions total)

the mionix avior sk would be another good option

i wouldn't get the SS Sensei, it doesn't have a very good sensor.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pendulum*
> 
> I've haven't looked into mice for a few years so I'm really out of the loop.
> I'm wondering what mice would be suitable for fingertip grip, my G400 has grown uncomfortable and I've always gripped it tilted because of the indention for the thumb.
> Would high sens cause a laser mouse to do more harm than good, especially while using a cloth pad?
> 
> Details
> -FPS games mostly, I mostly play mid-ranged, usually with a AR/DMR
> -3"-4" 360
> -Cloth pad [QCK]
> -2+ side buttons is a must
> -Ambidextrous, as said above the right handed mice give me trouble with my grip.
> -What to ignore, LoD , malfunction speed, brand, and price
> 
> The KinzuV2 was #1 on my list until I saw it didn't have any side buttons, which I abuse daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking into the following: Zowie AM, Mionix Avior SK, SS Sensei. <- I owned one, but it arrived DOA.


4 inches for a 360? If that's not a typo you're doing yourself a disservice by using that high of a sensitivity. You simply won't be able to hit consistent, fast headshots.

I would recommend a Razer copperhead if you're really using that extreme high sensitivity and thus don't care about it's low malfunction speed (0.7 m/s). Or an IE 1.1 if you can find one, which has a higher malfunction speed (1.5 m/s) but only 400 dpi.

Currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all new mice have some kind of smoothing delay that causes them to feel inaccurate in FPS games. The MLT04 sensor (Intellimouse 3.0, 1.1, WMO) and Razer Copperhead are the only two sensors I've used that have not had this issue. The IE 3.0 has significantly higher malfunction speed though. I know you are used to using extremely high sensitivity/DPI, but it's really not a necessity.

New/recent mice pros & cons:
1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
2. High and adjustable DPI
3. Native 500-1000hz
4. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel imprecise in FPS games.

MLT04 pros & cons:
1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS games.
2. Only 400 DPI
3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is significantly higher than the copperhead (0.7m/s iirc) but lower than newer mice.
4. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 currently, unless it comes with your motherboard (fatality z87 killer) updated to work on win8 & 10). Probably still doesn't work on ESEA because they block test mode which is needed, and ESEA won't run on linux.

If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as *which* mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. I reviewed some of the latest and most popular ones here.


----------



## Housemania

MaximilianKohler - i have a couple questions for you. So there is no way you can run the IE 3.0 on win 8 right now?

And are the mouses at ebay (talking about the china and honk kong dealers) good?

And about the argument you had for the malfuction , when cod4 was a big thing at esl i managed to pull it out to europe EMS series with an a4 x7(laser) on soft pad with 125 not stable fps and with that sens rarely i had malfuctions, only on a really fast 180s it was happening


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Housemania*
> 
> MaximilianKohler - i have a couple questions for you. So there is no way you can run the IE 3.0 on win 8 right now?
> 
> And are the mouses at ebay (talking about the china and honk kong dealers) good?


You can run it on win8, just at 125hz default. There's no program to overclock it to 500hz, unless it comes with your motherboard (mine has a 500hz usb port).

125hz means you get a lower malfunction speed (1m/s iirc) and the cursor doesn't move as smooth.

Everything on Ebay is backed by paypal, and if you use a credit card you have an extra level of protection/guarantee.


----------



## Housemania

Aha so there might be something coming for win8 to fixed it up?

And my question was is the quality fine of the mouses, coz we all know that everything is made at China and the rest of Asia, but the ones at ebay arent official dealers and thats my concern and want to get couple of them for my friends.


----------



## Pendulum

Thank you guys for the input so far.
That is correct, 4" per 360 isn't a typo, it's due to space on my desk







. I haven't actually tried in a FPS game since 2011 [BF3, briefly] since I've been busy working 50 hours a week and in college for 30 hrs weekly.
My accuracy is much better than you would think, at my peak I'd say it was on-par with yours [using 8"/360]. It's only a matter of muscle memory and using what works for you. That was back in '06 playing HL2 DM competitively and UT, I doubt I'll ever be able to reach that level ever again, though...but hey, I can try right?!









I wholeheartedly agree with that, before my G400 I had a 1.1, which served me well for many years, I think I bought about 6 mice before I found one that was tolerable.

My original goal with this is to find a mouse that better suits me and decrease my sens back to ~10" and work back into my palm grip with my next full PC rebuild. Currently I'd say I'm leaning on the Zowie FK, for now.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Housemania*
> 
> Aha so there might be something coming for win8 to fixed it up?
> 
> And my question was is the quality fine of the mouses, coz we all know that everything is made at China and the rest of Asia, but the ones at ebay arent official dealers and thats my concern and want to get couple of them for my friends.


There's no telling whether or not someone will make a program that works with win8.

I doubt the mice that are being sold on ebay are rip offs with a different sensor/case made to look the same. They should all be the same sensor with different coating styles that have been released over the years.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pendulum*
> 
> My accuracy is much better than you would think, at my peak *I'd say it was on-par with yours* [using 8"/360].


You watched my CS movie and feel that your aim is on par with that?


----------



## Atavax

"on a good day" is kind of a defeating statement. Everyone occasionally has good aim. Every amateur can land a bulls-eye on darts occasionally. Good aim is being able to land it consistently. "On a good day" is code for "i can't aim well"


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> "on a good day" is kind of a defeating statement. Everyone occasionally has good aim. Every amateur can land a bulls-eye on darts occasionally. Good aim is being able to land it consistently. "On a good day" is code for "i can't aim well"


You can say the same about frag videos








I've seen high sensers with near perfect aim, so it is not impossible. It's just much harder to be consistent that way.


----------



## Pendulum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You watched my CS movie and feel that your aim is on par with that?


Yes, I would say it was, but as I said, that was years ago and I doubt I'll ever be able to reach that level of precision again due to my lifestyle. [workaholic]
That was when I was using a 1.1 ~10" / 360 playing against the top tier players in HL2M [.357 hoarder]...back when it was awesome. Since I left I've yet to find a game to fill the void so I just stopped playing FPS for years.
CS isn't quite my cup of tea but I think I'd like to make a return with UT next year, after I graduate college.









To be quite honest when I was playing BF3 I only played for a couple of months, but I was using 2" / 360, but I managed to be ranked in the top 0% in accuracy and HS/K using the M98B, something close to 90% iirc.
My shots weren't hard to line up at all, I had a very strange grip style of claw with my pinky on the pad to help control everything.









I should have played competitive, but I just preferred relaxed clan matches back then since HL2 had a very friendly community.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There's no telling whether or not someone will make a program that works with win8.
> 
> I doubt the mice that are being sold on ebay are rip offs with a different sensor/case made to look the same. They should all be the same sensor with different coating styles that have been released over the years.
> You watched my CS movie and feel that your aim is on par with that?


101


----------



## nusho

1.What's your grip style?
Palm
2.What's your sensitivity?
2 Sens 400 dpi (feel more precision when its lower) on black qck
3.What's your maximum budget?
60 bucks
4.Do you want additional buttons?
I am right handed, so thumb buttons are useful
5.What games do you play?
CS, Total War
6.Do you mind about prediction?
Yea its bad
7.Other relevant information:
I have been using mx518. I like it, but its time to get a new mouse. I like mouses that fit the right hand shape, but if ambidestrous is the best fit for me, I can try to get used to it. By the way, I should be able to use it without installing drivers -- basically, a reasonable native dpi that works well.


----------



## Kond3P

What's your grip style?
currently palm because of g700, but i aim considerably better with claw grip.
What's your sensitivity?
34,6cm(13.6″)/360
What's your maximum budget?
50€
Do you want additional buttons?
at least 2 thumb buttons
What games do you play?
competetive TF2
Do you mind about prediction?
I probably do, not 100% sure though
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
The most important thing is that the mouse needs to weigh under 100g, my G700 doesn't fit into my hand and it's too heavy for claw grip. I'd also like to have more sensitive button actuation force than g700 has. LOD in g700 feels good though. I'd also like the mouse be fairly big but smaller than g700.
I have been eyeing the Zowie FK but I've had trouble finding an optical version of it.
Thanks in advance.
EDIT: I got 15 hours to buy Zowie FK optical for 35€, should I take a shot?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kond3P*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> currently palm because of g700, but i aim considerably better with claw grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 34,6cm(13.6″)/360
> What's your maximum budget?
> 50€
> Do you want additional buttons?
> at least 2 thumb buttons
> What games do you play?
> competetive TF2
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I probably do, not 100% sure though
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> The most important thing is that the mouse needs to weigh under 100g, my G700 doesn't fit into my hand and it's too heavy for claw grip. I'd also like to have more sensitive button actuation force than g700 has. LOD in g700 feels good though. I'd also like the mouse be fairly big but smaller than g700.
> I have been eyeing the Zowie FK but I've had trouble finding an optical version of it.
> Thanks in advance.
> EDIT: *I got 15 hours to buy Zowie FK optical for 35€, should I take a shot?*


Read this. Watch 



. Then decide. Note that I didn't test the FK or AM on 2300dpi, which people say they perform better on. The thinness of the FK shouldn't bother you if you're not going to use palm grip.

And I'm pretty sure there are no laser FKs... They all have the 3090 optical sensor as far as I know...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nusho*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> 2 Sens 400 dpi (feel more precision when its lower) on black qck
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> 60 bucks
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> I am right handed, so thumb buttons are useful
> 5.What games do you play?
> CS, Total War
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> Yea its bad
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I have been using mx518. I like it, but its time to get a new mouse. I like mouses that fit the right hand shape, but if ambidestrous is the best fit for me, I can try to get used to it. By the way, I should be able to use it without installing drivers -- basically, a reasonable native dpi that works well.


Ever tried an IE 1.1 or 3.0? Read this.


----------



## Atavax

max, have you tried any of the like 1600-1800 dpi mice? I wonder how the pyra compares to the mlt04 in responsiveness.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> max, have you tried any of the like 1600-1800 dpi mice? I wonder how the pyra compares to the mlt04 in responsiveness.


I haven't tried the Pyra, but I tried the mx518 and it had the same problem. In fact, the mx518 was the original mouse that I noticed the phenomenon on. When I heard that the 518 had "correction" I thought that was what was responsible, but it turned out to not be the case.

I just looked and I can't find the Pyra in any local stores to test it.


----------



## nubki11a

What's your grip style?
A combination of a fingertipgrip and palmgrip where only the top of the palm and my fingers (not just the tip) rest on the mouse.

What's your sensitivity?
Unsure how to measure this precisely; 13-20cm/360, 1150 DPI, 6/11

What's your maximum budget?
€60,- would prefer it to be a bit less though, might be able to stretch a bit more for something really really special

Do you want additional buttons?
Only need a mousewheel and 2 thumbbuttons

What games do you play?
Mainly League of Legends (RTS), Battlefield 3, CoD4 and singleplayer games like Watch_Dogs. Most games I play are FPS, I spend most time playing LoL though.

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

Other relevant information:
Don't really care too much about the LOD as long as the mouse doesn't start spazzing out when lifted. Doesn't have to be ambidextrous; I'm right-handed. Don't want one with too many bright lights or a wireless one. I like the way my Zowie AM clicks, but it can start to hurt my fingers after a while so I wouldn't mind the button activation force to be a tad light. Finally, I have pretty large hands, so I would like to try one that's a bit bigger than the Zowie AM: Length: 125 mm / 4.92-Inch / Width: 60 mm / 2.36-Inch / Height: 39mm / 1.53-Inch

Anyone that could help me out?


----------



## killa_concept

What's your grip style?
Claw grip both my Razer Copperhead (main) and 1800dpi DeathAdder (was my second computer's, but I've switched it over to my main to try and get used to a larger mouse)
What's your sensitivity?
Currently 800dpi with 6/11 in windows
What's your maximum budget?
$100 if need be, though I certainly don't mind cheaper
Do you want additional buttons?
This is probably the most important part - I want a mouse with extra, programmable, top-mounted buttons (near the left click) similar to the g502 or razer mamba. The more prominent and sizeable, the better.
What games do you play?
A little bit of everything, but the only one I'm particularly competitive with is League of Legends.
Do you mind about prediction?
Not as much as some - fairly sure the Copperhead and 1800 DA both have them. It's really not as critical to a MOBA as a FPS.
Other relevant information:
A lighter mouse would be nice, but the extra topside buttons is really what's most important. I'm wanting this extra top-side button for binding Attack-move-click to in League of Legends. There are ways to do attach it to the left click (which would be optimal), but it messes up mini-map functionality. If I got a mouse that met this criteria, I could even bind Attack-move-click to the mouse-1 and normal mouse-1 functions to the extra top-side button.


----------



## L4dd

The DeathAdder and Copperhead don't have "prediction/angle snapping" AFAIK.
You should use 6 of 11 Windows sensitivity...


----------



## killa_concept

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The DeathAdder and Copperhead don't have "prediction/angle snapping" AFAIK.
> You should use 6 of 11 Windows sensitivity...


Oops my bad - it is set to 6. I didn't actually check, just assumed 5 was default and I don't recall ever changing it. And doing the basic paint test, I feel like the Deathadder doesn't but the Copperhead might? Making angled lines seems a bit snappier and flicking out a horizontal line yields a fairly linear one...

Regardless, any suggestions based on my needs?


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You've used a 9000fps version of the MLT04? Which mouse matches it in your opinion?


I used several Microsoft IMO and WMO from 2002 to 2010 and since then a Microsoft Optical Mouse Blue. The majority of these were bought after the 9000fps version was released so I'm pretty sure I'm talking about that sensor. If you doubt it then I can check my serial number when I'm home.

Along the way I've tried other mice. The Deathadder 3.5G and the Logitech G400 had extremely accurate and responsive sensors that had higher perfect control speeds than the Microsoft mice. I cannot think of any way in which the MLT04 was better. I could find myself hitting outrageous flickshots with these mice that I couldn't necessarily do with the MLT04. Given that I've played competitive CS for a decade and attended numerous LANs I would say that I'm in a good position to judge a mouse that improves performance in FPS games.

The reason that I continued to use the Microsoft Optical Mouse Blue was nothing to do with sensor performance, but down to ergonomics. I found the smaller, lightweight design easier to move and track quickly moving objects where the extra weight of the Deathadder or G400 was a disadvantage.

This isn't meant to be me bashing the MLT04 because I think at the time it was a great sensor. I'm just trying to say that there are other mice with equal or better sensors. It's just a shame that the 3888 and the 3095 were proprietary sensors which were never implemented into a lightweight mouse.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> I already have a Deathadder Black 3.5G and like it, but it's shape never made me completely happy. It fits my hands and is someway comfortable, but I think it could be better.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Right handed palm grip. Would not like a mouse bigger than the DA.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1000 - 2000DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> $80-100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, maybe 2 at the left side, but I don't care if it has more
> What games do you play?
> Mostly competitive FPS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not much, but wouldn't like a sensor with a big one.
> Other relevant information:
> I'd like a small LOD, medium to low weight, wired, a easy-to-grip surface material and medium to low button activation force.
> Thanks!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Zowie EC1 EVO


Any more suggestions guys?


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> Any more suggestions guys?


The EC1 suggestion is the closest thing that matches your criteria. Though you did say nothing bigger than a DA. The EC1 is right at the DA. If you want something a little smaller you could go with the EC2.

EC2 is the same as the EC1 just smaller.

You also have the EC EVO CL Series and the EVO White. All same except for different coating.

Here are some other suggestions

Mionix Naos 7000 - Palm
Mionix Avior 7000 - Fingertip/Claw
Logitech G502 - All grips
Logitech G400s - All grips


----------



## aybeeray

What's your grip style? Claw(-ish). My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious.
What's your sensitivity? Windows 6/11. 800-1000 dpi? (one of the two, I'm at work at the moment, can't remember which)
What's your maximum budget? 200 USD
Do you want additional buttons? Meh, doesn't matter to me. Just want something that performs at a high level.
What games do you play? CS:GO (Looking for a mouse STRICTLY for CS:GO and occasional casual play of other FPSs)
Do you mind about prediction? No clue. So I guess that's a no.
Other relevant information: Right handed or ambi is fine. No preferences regarding wired/wireless so long as the mouse performs at a high level. Customizability is cool but not absolutely necessary. Again, just going for performance above all else.


----------



## TK421

Avior 7K


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> Any more suggestions guys?


Rival is a pure palm grip mouse. I don't have dimensions in my head but it feels longer, higher, wider in back but way more narrow in the front. Otherwise G400 or like another guy said EC2, EC1 feels bigger than DA.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aybeeray*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw(-ish). My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious.
> What's your sensitivity? Windows 6/11. 800-1000 dpi? (one of the two, I'm at work at the moment, can't remember which)
> What's your maximum budget? 200 USD
> Do you want additional buttons? Meh, doesn't matter to me. Just want something that performs at a high level.
> What games do you play? CS:GO (Looking for a mouse STRICTLY for CS:GO and occasional casual play of other FPSs)
> Do you mind about prediction? No clue. So I guess that's a no.
> Other relevant information: Right handed or ambi is fine. No preferences regarding wired/wireless so long as the mouse performs at a high level. Customizability is cool but not absolutely necessary. Again, just going for performance above all else.


Avior 7000 is absolutely deadly. It supports all steps 50-5000 in increments of 50, but I'd use 400 CPI if I were you playing competitive FPS, as the sensor performs its best in terms of accuracy and input latency at the lower steps in my personal experience. There is absolutely no limit on what you can do with its awesome 5.3 m/s PCS.


----------



## aybeeray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Avior 7000 is absolutely deadly. It supports all steps 50-5000 in increments of 50, but I'd use 400 CPI if I were you playing competitive FPS, as the sensor performs its best in terms of accuracy and input latency at the lower steps in my personal experience. There is absolutely no limit on what you can do with its awesome 5.3 m/s PCS.


So the Avior over the Naos? I don't require ambidextrous capability, as I think that left-handed people are strange and I don't associate with them. Are the two mice identical from a technical standpoint?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aybeeray*
> 
> So the Avior over the Naos? I don't require ambidextrous capability, as I think that left-handed people are strange and I don't associate with them. Are the two mice identical from a technical standpoint?


Yup, only the shape differs.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aybeeray*
> 
> So the Avior over the Naos? I don't require ambidextrous capability, as I think that left-handed people are strange and I don't associate with them. Are the two mice identical from a technical standpoint?


Correct, only the shape differs.


----------



## aybeeray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Correct, only the shape differs.


Ha, well it seems that Newegg does not offer the 7000, but they do offer the SK branded version (identical in specs)! Well-played bds... well-played.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aybeeray*
> 
> Ha, well it seems that Newegg does not offer the 7000, but they do offer the SK branded version (identical in specs)! Well-played bds... well-played.


Amazon.


----------



## aybeeray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Amazon.


Newegg Preferred Account FTW!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aybeeray*
> 
> Newegg Preferred Account FTW!


Amazon Prime yo


----------



## julsfof

Hey,

i am looking for a mouse and looked at all the mice with an optical sensor from this list and i didnt really like any of them.
(well i own a roccat savu and the only gripe i have is the height):
http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list

So i am basically out of ideas.

1. finger with a bit of palm
2. 41cm / 360 at 1600 cpi
3. 80€
4. 2 thumb buttons at least preferably more
5. cs, dota
6. yes i mind prediction / smoothing

Other relevant information:

Important:

wired, low weight <90g , optical sensor, low height <40mm,

not that important:

preferably right handed
low LOD would also be nice
omroms

i own a roccat savu and i like it but id like a mouse thats even lighter and has a lower height.
looked at the zowie fk but it hasnt omrom switches and a lot of people complain about that the buttons are hard to press.
Any input about that?
Also looked at the avior 7000 and it looks good but the weight seems a bit much for my taste.

thx in advance


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Alright guys, I currently have a razer naga molten edition that works and a razer naga 2014 that does not work (The mouse randomly freezes. It seems to be a common issue with the sensor).

I am tired of crappy mice that have stupid drivers and random features that I do not need.

So I am looking for a simple mouse that can fit my bear size hands.

My friend REALLY wants me to get an microsoft intelimouse. I got to admit that he makes a lot of good points about it. It has a very nice sensor, it is cheap, and it does not have dumb drivers.

But it is not quite perfect. It is still a bit on the small side for my liking.

If there is something like the intelimouse that is a weeee bit bigger, that would be great.


----------



## geotang

Zowie AM/FK
Roccat Savu
Razer Abyssus
Logitech G9(x)
CMstorm Spawn/Xornet
Steelseries Kinzu

Are there any other mice liked for their shape? What are flaws of these designs?

What are flaws of mouse case design in general?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geotang*
> 
> Zowie AM/FK
> Roccat Savu
> Razer Abyssus
> Logitech G9(x)
> CMstorm Spawn/Xornet
> Steelseries Kinzu
> 
> Are there any other mice liked for their shape? What are flaws of these designs?
> 
> What are flaws of mouse case design in general?


You should start a new thread for this discussion.

I think all mice are both liked and disliked by different people for their shape. Some are like by a lot more people than they are hated by. But I don't think there's ever been a huge poll to establish which shapes are liked and disliked by the most people.


----------



## geotang

Yeah, I figured. I posted a topic yesterday though so I don't want to spam the forum for now.

Also, I guess more specifically, I'm looking at claw grip which might cut down and explain why my list is what it is.


----------



## L4dd

Did you see the Avior 7000 for claw gripping with your "bear size hands"?


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *julsfof*
> 
> wired, low weight <90g , optical sensor, low height <40mm,
> 
> Also looked at the avior 7000 and it looks good but the weight seems a bit much for my taste.
> 
> thx in advance


What about CM Storm Alcor / Zowie EC2 eVo?

comparison between those 2
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> Alcor is very worth the money imo.
> 
> compared to a Zowie EC2 evo:
> 
> pros:
> -lighter
> -better cable(it's more flexible and seems to be better connected with the actual core; same thickness)
> -thicker and harder mousefeet
> -very good feeling omron switches, with alot less overtravel mainbuttons
> -traditional mousewheel with 24 steps(they even used an ALPS encoder instead of the usual TTC ones)
> -higher LOD for supposed better surface compatibility, but still very low(barely tracks on height of 1 CD) with "tape-trick" on a black mousemat
> -DPI-buttons on top
> 
> coating is about the same(while also the sidebuttons are coated on the alcor) and in reality the Alcor looks much better than on the official pics.
> 
> cons:
> -about 0.3m/s lower maxtracking speed(~3.2m/[email protected]@[email protected]@qck heavy)
> -too hard to press mouse3 for my taste
> -no software at all, so i can't bind useful functions on the DPI-buttons
> 
> depends on personal preference:
> -shape
> -sensorposition is higher than usual, but still a bit lower than on WMO:http://i.imgur.com/BsCTCmpl.jpg
> -4 small mousefeet instead of 2 big ones
> 
> FYI:
> -firmware v2 and v3, even if they have a much lower LOD and a 400DPI step, feel like crap regarding "smoothing"
> -CM storm plans to bring out a alcor v2, with sidegrips of the mizar and a pwm-3310 sensor, but that's actually not confirmed yet.


----------



## lucatt

Is the Logitech G100s still worth buying? I can't afford much expensive mouses, my grip style is Claw, and i can live without the side buttons.
Also is there an wireless mouse around $30 without delay?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucatt*
> 
> Is the Logitech G100s still worth buying? I can't afford much expensive mouses, my grip style is Claw, and i can live without the side buttons.
> Also is there an wireless mouse around $30 without delay?


The G100s is a fine mouse, and is recommended by many on this board.

No, there are no high performance wireless mice on the market for around $30, to my knowledge.


----------



## hza

Roccat Pyra Wireless might please you.


----------



## lucatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Roccat Pyra Wireless might please you.


I liked it, but can't find for a good price around here.
I think i'll just go with the Logitech G100s to use on a laptop.


----------



## julsfof

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> What about CM Storm Alcor / Zowie EC2 eVo?


already looked at the alcor but its basicly the same as my savu maybe a bit lighter but thats the only difference.
ordered an ec2 hope i dont hate the the switches

thx anyway


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucatt*
> 
> Is the Logitech G100s still worth buying? I can't afford much expensive mouses, my grip style is Claw, and i can live without the side buttons.
> Also is there an wireless mouse around $30 without delay?


You might consider the WMO and IE 1.1.

Read this for some of the advantages and disadvantages.


----------



## leothelion

Well, I posted in this thread a few days ago about my EC2 eVo CL and I recently got a new one and it had the exact same problem for me (low malfunctioning speed). I tried an EC1 eVo black recently too and it was the same although it wasn't as bad, so I'm guessing it's true the sensor has got worse since the EC v1.

Do anyone have info on which ZOWIE mouse has the highest malfunctioning speed? curious because ZOWIE FK, AM or buying a new EC2 v1 is about my only options now.

Also wondering if Kana v2 has lower LOD than the v1?


----------



## lucatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You might consider the WMO and IE 1.1.
> 
> Read this for some of the advantages and disadvantages.


I would get it, but i don't think i'll like playing with 400 DPI on 1080p.
Anyway, i think Logitech G100s is the only option at my budget, is it good for gaming?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucatt*
> 
> I would get it, but i don't think i'll like playing with 400 DPI on 1080p.
> Anyway, i think Logitech G100s is the only option at my budget, is it good for gaming?


What games are you trying to play with this? You can't listen to Max unless you're a competitive FPS gamer who uses a very specific sensitivity range, and are willing to hunt down an old school mouse.


----------



## lucatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What games are you trying to play with this? You can't listen to Max unless you're a competitive FPS gamer who uses a very specific sensitivity range, and are willing to hunt down an old school mouse.


Mainly MOBAs and FPS games like CoD and BF, general gaming, and i don't need the side buttons.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucatt*
> 
> Mainly MOBAs and FPS games like CoD and BF, general gaming, and i don't need the side buttons.


Yeah should be fine. That's the budget mouse we most recommend here usually.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *julsfof*
> 
> already looked at the alcor but its basicly the same as my savu maybe a bit lighter but thats the only difference.
> ordered an ec2 hope i dont hate the the switches
> 
> thx anyway


And what do you think about SS Kana v2?


----------



## Wumaduce

*What's your grip style?* 95% of the time it's palm. Rarely I'll go
*What's your sensitivity?* I have a G500 right now and usually use it around 2000 DPI.
*What's your maximum budget?* Would like to spend under $75 USD
*Do you want additional buttons?* The MMO mice with 12 thumb buttons are a turn off. At least 3 thumb buttons like my G500 currently has would be a huge plus.
*What games do you play?* Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Diablo, some RTS games.
*Do you mind about prediction?* No
*Other relevant information*: Prefer wired mice I don't care about LEDs, added weights, customizable grips or plates - If the mouse has it, that's not a bad thing, but I don't need any of that to be happy with my selection.
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Thanks for your time, folks!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wumaduce*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* 95% of the time it's palm. Rarely I'll go
> *What's your sensitivity?* I have a G500 right now and usually use it around 2000 DPI.
> *What's your maximum budget?* Would like to spend under $75 USD
> *Do you want additional buttons?* The MMO mice with 12 thumb buttons are a turn off. At least 3 thumb buttons like my G500 currently has would be a huge plus.
> *What games do you play?* Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Diablo, some RTS games.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* No
> *Other relevant information*: Prefer wired mice I don't care about LEDs, added weights, customizable grips or plates - If the mouse has it, that's not a bad thing, but I don't need any of that to be happy with my selection.
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Thanks for your time, folks!


1.) Logitech G502
2.) What server/region are you on in Wildstar?


----------



## Wumaduce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> 1.) Logitech G502
> 2.) What server/region are you on in Wildstar?


1) That's the mouse I was most attracted to as far as feel when I was in Best Buy, but they didn't have a very big selection in there.

2) NA - Widow. I don't play a whole lot right now, though. I fell behind the rest of my guild and haven't had the burning desire to log in since they got a full group of 50's together.


----------



## j6k4

*1. What's your grip style?*
This is a tricky one, as I tend to grip my mouse in two grip styles depending on what game I play.
When I play COD its mostly fingertip style, but when I play CS or LoL its a claw grip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?* I am used to around ~ 400dpi on desktop and ingame

*3. What's your maximum budget?* Up to £100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, at least 2, 4 would be great too. Not too many though

*5. What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS, COD4, CS and a bit of LoL

*6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes. I'd prefer a mouse without prediction/correction angle snapping w/e ...so no prediction please

*7. Scroll wheel:* this is a big one for me, i need a scroll wheel with a solid feedback, a scroll wheel with which you can control every notch, one that doesn't accidentally move too many steps, a 16-step scroll wheel i guess? rolleyes.gif

*8. Lift off distance:* below 2mm please, around 1.5~ would be great, basically a mouse with low lod, currently using Qck XXL heavy which is a black cloth, would buy a suitable mousepad (preferably a large cloth one) to work well with the mouse if needed to improve its tracking performance

*9. Weight:* Would like to try a lighter mice than 3.5g black which is 110grams, so something below 100 grams at least would be nice

*10. Coating finish:* Non-glossy please, prefer something more grippy and rubberized similar to Zowie FK or DA black edition in terms of coating

*11. Button activation force:* Not too light and not too hard to activate, something inbetween. Don't want any accidental clicks but I'd like to try a mouse that doesn't need as much activation force as a DA Black edition for example as I find that to be on the harder side


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> This is a tricky one, as I tend to grip my mouse in two grip styles depending on what game I play.
> When I play COD its mostly fingertip style, but when I play CS or LoL its a claw grip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* I am used to around ~ 400dpi on desktop and ingame
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* Up to £100
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, at least 2, 4 would be great too. Not too many though
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Mostly FPS, COD4, CS and a bit of LoL
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes. I'd prefer a mouse without prediction/correction angle snapping w/e ...so no prediction please
> 
> *7. Scroll wheel:* this is a big one for me, i need a scroll wheel with a solid feedback, a scroll wheel with which you can control every notch, one that doesn't accidentally move too many steps, a 16-step scroll wheel i guess? rolleyes.gif
> 
> *8. Lift off distance:* below 2mm please, around 1.5~ would be great, basically a mouse with low lod, currently using Qck XXL heavy which is a black cloth, would buy a suitable mousepad (preferably a large cloth one) to work well with the mouse if needed to improve its tracking performance
> 
> *9. Weight:* Would like to try a lighter mice than 3.5g black which is 110grams, so something below 100 grams at least would be nice
> 
> *10. Coating finish:* Non-glossy please, prefer something more grippy and rubberized similar to Zowie FK or DA black edition in terms of coating
> 
> *11. Button activation force:* Not too light and not too hard to activate, something inbetween. Don't want any accidental clicks but I'd like to try a mouse that doesn't need as much activation force as a DA Black edition for example as I find that to be on the harder side


Avior 7000 would fit your needs


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> This is a tricky one, as I tend to grip my mouse in two grip styles depending on what game I play.
> When I play COD its mostly fingertip style, but when I play CS or LoL its a claw grip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?* I am used to around ~ 400dpi on desktop and ingame
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?* Up to £100
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, at least 2, 4 would be great too. Not too many though
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Mostly FPS, COD4, CS and a bit of LoL
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?* Yes. I'd prefer a mouse without prediction/correction angle snapping w/e ...so no prediction please
> 
> *7. Scroll wheel:* this is a big one for me, i need a scroll wheel with a solid feedback, a scroll wheel with which you can control every notch, one that doesn't accidentally move too many steps, a 16-step scroll wheel i guess? rolleyes.gif
> 
> *8. Lift off distance:* below 2mm please, around 1.5~ would be great, basically a mouse with low lod, currently using Qck XXL heavy which is a black cloth, would buy a suitable mousepad (preferably a large cloth one) to work well with the mouse if needed to improve its tracking performance
> 
> *9. Weight:* Would like to try a lighter mice than 3.5g black which is 110grams, so something below 100 grams at least would be nice
> 
> *10. Coating finish:* Non-glossy please, prefer something more grippy and rubberized similar to Zowie FK or DA black edition in terms of coating
> 
> *11. Button activation force:* Not too light and not too hard to activate, something inbetween. Don't want any accidental clicks but I'd like to try a mouse that doesn't need as much activation force as a DA Black edition for example as I find that to be on the harder side


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wumaduce*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* 95% of the time it's palm. Rarely I'll go
> *What's your sensitivity?* I have a G500 right now and usually use it around 2000 DPI.
> *What's your maximum budget?* Would like to spend under $75 USD
> *Do you want additional buttons?* The MMO mice with 12 thumb buttons are a turn off. At least 3 thumb buttons like my G500 currently has would be a huge plus.
> *What games do you play?* Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Diablo, some RTS games.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* No
> *Other relevant information*: Prefer wired mice I don't care about LEDs, added weights, customizable grips or plates - If the mouse has it, that's not a bad thing, but I don't need any of that to be happy with my selection.
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Thanks for your time, folks!


Read this.

If you chose a recently released mouse then for palm grip you might want to wait till the FK1 and kone pure military are available (FK1 in a couple weeks, KPM's released in Europe, maybe a couple weeks in the US), and try one of those. As they look like they have better shapes for palm grip then other recent mice.

For claw & fingertip grip it doesn't really matter. Any light mouse would be fine. Avior7000 is a well built mouse for claw grip, but I'm pretty sure the FK1 is lighter.

My reviews.


----------



## j6k4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Read this.
> 
> If you chose a recently released mouse then for palm grip you might want to wait till the FK1 and kone pure military are available (FK1 in a couple weeks, KPM's released in Europe, maybe a couple weeks in the US), and try one of those. As they look like they have better shapes for palm grip then other recent mice.
> 
> For claw & fingertip grip it doesn't really matter. Any light mouse would be fine. Avior7000 is a well built mouse for claw grip, but I'm pretty sure the FK1 is lighter.
> 
> My reviews.


well I was thinking about getting the FK at first for a while actually, but im sceptical about their scrollwheel now the avior 7000 looks tempting

what do you think about the scrollwheel of the original FK, the new FK2014 and the FK1 ??

edit: I will check your reviews later today


----------



## khazix

Hi, sorry if there are faults, English is not my native language.

1. What's your grip style? Palm grip. I like big mice.

2. What's your sensitivity? I don't need more than 4000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? 100 euros. I can pay a little bit more if the mouse is really amazing

4. Do you want additional buttons? 4-5 buttons are enough

5. What games do you play? League of Legends, Minecraft

6. Do you mind about prediction? I dont know what is it

By the way, I can wait a little if a mouse will be available soon and will be better than current mice.

I think the naos 7000 is good for me, no?

Thanks !

Edit : I prefer a right - hand mouse and a wired mouse.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khazix*
> 
> Hi, sorry if there are faults, English is not my native language.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm grip. I like big mice.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I don't need more than 4000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 100 euros. I can pay a little bit more if the mouse is really amazing
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? 4-5 buttons are enough
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends, Minecraft
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I dont know what is it
> 
> By the way, I can wait a little if a mouse will be available soon and will be better than current mice.
> 
> I think the naos 7000 is good for me, no?
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> Edit : I prefer a right - hand mouse and a wired mouse.


Naos 7000 is a good choice if you don't lift much. Logitech G502 is good as well but it is a heavy mouse.


----------



## khazix

Ok thanks guy, i'll make a topic to get more suggestions


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> Naos 7000 is a good choice if you don't lift much. Logitech G502 is good as well but it is a heavy mouse.


Are you my clone? LOL
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> well I was thinking about getting the FK at first for a while actually, but im sceptical about their scrollwheel now the avior 7000 looks tempting
> 
> what do you think about the scrollwheel of the original FK, the new FK2014 and the FK1 ??
> 
> edit: I will check your reviews later today


Yeah all the FKs have a pretty crap scroll compared to the Avior. I was really taken aback at how consistent and clean the Avior's scroll is...it's in a league of its own. It's not usually something I have mentioned around here but since you asked about that, it is really awesome.

My '13 FK has a terrible scroll, half the steps have more resistance than the other half. It feels lopsided, and talking to someone else on the forum, their brand new in box FK had the same issue. Not a company I'd trust for scroll wheel quality...


----------



## veirge

Quick question, is the logitech g502 good for fingertip grip?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> well I was thinking about getting the FK at first for a while actually, but im sceptical about their scrollwheel now the avior 7000 looks tempting
> 
> what do you think about the scrollwheel of the original FK, the new FK2014 and the FK1 ??
> 
> edit: I will check your reviews later today


I didn't like it. It had too few notches, and thus each notch was too far apart. It was also too stiff to scroll or click.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khazix*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, sorry if there are faults, English is not my native language.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm grip. I like big mice.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? I don't need more than 4000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 100 euros. I can pay a little bit more if the mouse is really amazing
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? 4-5 buttons are enough
> 
> 5. What games do you play? League of Legends, Minecraft
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? I dont know what is it
> 
> By the way, I can wait a little if a mouse will be available soon and will be better than current mice.
> 
> I think the naos 7000 is good for me, no?
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> Edit : I prefer a right - hand mouse and a wired mouse.


You don't need 4000 DPI either. In case you didn't know, more DPI = mouse cursor moves faster. That's all. 4000DPI with 6/11 windows, EPP off, is insanely fast. You will lose so much ability to make controlled, precise, small movements. Or even fast, precise movements as well.

For LoL and minecraft it's literally a waste of money to buy an expensive "gaming" mouse. It would be like buying a Ferrari to commute to and from work 5 miles away during heavy traffic.

Buy the lightest, smallest mouse you can find. I don't know of any small mice with 4-5 buttons, but someone else might be able to help you there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veirge*
> 
> Quick question, is the logitech g502 good for fingertip grip?


No. It's way too heavy.


----------



## RubyRhod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I didn't like it. It had too few notches, and thus each notch was too far apart. It was also too stiff to scroll or click.
> You don't need 4000 DPI either. In case you didn't know, more DPI = mouse cursor moves faster. That's all. 4000DPI with 6/11 windows, EPP off, is insanely fast. You will lose so much ability to make controlled, precise, small movements. Or even fast, precise movements as well.
> 
> For LoL and minecraft it's literally a waste of money to buy an expensive "gaming" mouse. It would be like buying a Ferrari to commute to and from work 5 miles away during heavy traffic.
> 
> Buy the lightest, smallest mouse you can find. I don't know of any small mice with 4-5 buttons, but someone else might be able to help you there.
> No. It's way too heavy.


I can definitely see some people not liking the scroll wheel, it is spaced a little far apart and is not the smoothest scroll wheel I've ever used.
However, I've adjusted to the scroll wheel so much over time that I do not even notice it.

Ever since I broke the scroll wheel on my zowie mico (before I got the FK) I've gotten used to holding down the mouse wheel to scroll down. With the FK, holding down the wheel really isn't that bad, or mine is worn in at least.


----------



## Droo k6

*What's your grip style?*
Palm/claw
*What's your sensitivity?*
Been using 1600 for awhile, something around there but I would like a button to adjust it on the fly.
*What's your maximum budget?*
$100
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, something with more than 2 side buttons and a dpi switch.
*What games do you play?*
Arma, CS:GO, MO, Warband, Warframe, BC2, Supreme Commander, other similar games
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Not really, so long as it doesn't mess me up.
On a side note I don't know whether prediction will mess with the mouse attack/blocking in warband, if it does then no to prediction.
*Other relevant information:*
Been using a Gigabyte M6800 since 2011, looking for a replacement now since the middle button has been going out and I need some additional side buttons for games like Arma/MO and an additional voip key. Also no acceleration, wired, longer wire than 1.5 meters.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Droo k6*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm/claw
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Been using 1600 for awhile, something around there but I would like a button to adjust it on the fly.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> $100
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes, something with more than 2 side buttons and a dpi switch.
> *What games do you play?*
> Arma, CS:GO, MO, Warband, Warframe, BC2, Supreme Commander, other similar games
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not really, so long as it doesn't mess me up.
> On a side note I don't know whether prediction will mess with the mouse attack/blocking in warband, if it does then no to prediction.
> *Other relevant information:*
> Been using a Gigabyte M6800 since 2011, looking for a replacement now since the middle button has been going out and I need some additional side buttons for games like Arma/MO and an additional voip key. Also no acceleration, wired, longer wire than 1.5 meters.


G502


----------



## MaximilianKohler

g502 is a really heavy mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> g502 is a really heavy mouse.


Yes take note. He didn't seem to mention weight though.


----------



## hza

Droo mentioned 1600 dpi. Probably not a low senser. For high(er) sens weight doesn't matter as much (especially on hard pads, in case he uses one).


----------



## uNfEiL

Have already posted here but the things have changed.

*What's your grip style?*


http://imgur.com/qBBXd


*What's your sensitivity?*
950 but I think I can adapt.

*What's your maximum budget?*
Around 70 € (approx 95 $)

*Do you want additional buttons?*
At least 2 for browser (forward/backward)

*What games do you play?*
League of Legends / Osu! / rarely CS:GO, BF4

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I would prefer not to have it.

*Other relevant information:*
Hand size: http://i.imgur.com/NBXtOfZ.jpg
I will buy *SteelSeries QCK+* as a mouse pad.
Considering Zowie EC2 eVo(or CL version) (if non CL Black or White?) even though I know there are Huano's switches but I've heard they are easier to click than on FK. Not sure though which way to go. I'm not sensor-phile (like "audiophile").


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Have already posted here but the things have changed.
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/qBBXd
> 
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 950 but I think I can adapt.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Around 70 € (approx 95 $)
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> At least 2 for browser (forward/backward)
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> League of Legends / Osu! / rarely CS:GO, BF4
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I would prefer not to have it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Hand size: http://i.imgur.com/NBXtOfZ.jpg
> I will buy *SteelSeries QCK+* as a mouse pad.
> Considering Zowie EC2 eVo(or CL version) (if non CL Black or White?) even though I know there are Huano's switches but I've heard they are easier to click than on FK. Not sure though which way to go. I'm not sensor-phile (like "audiophile").


EC2 is probably too small, EC1 should work though.


----------



## Droo k6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yes take note. He didn't seem to mention weight though.


Forgot about that, guess my current mouse is pretty light but I'll manage if it's heavier just for some extra buttons. Was looking at the G502 and a bunch of others, guess I'll be ordering that.
Thanks for the feedback
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Droo mentioned 1600 dpi. Probably not a low senser. For high(er) sens weight doesn't matter as much (especially on hard pads, in case he uses one).


Ya I use a hard pad.


----------



## Nik

*1.  What's your grip style?*

Fingertip. Got used to a small cheap laptop mouse. 

*2.**What's your sensitivity?*

I think its 800dpi but I can adapt to a different one.

*3.**What's your maximum budget?*

Not more than 50$

*4.**Do you want additional buttons?*

I mostly play Dota so at least 2 extra buttons would be nice.

*5.**What games do you play?*

Dota 2. Sometimes CS GO, TF2

*6.**Do you mind about prediction?*

Eh. I would rather not have it.

*7.**Other relevant information:*

The mouse I have measures 110X55X35 and I find this size comfortable for my grip.

I'm thinking of buying the G300


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nik*
> 
> *1.  What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip. Got used to a small cheap laptop mouse.
> 
> *2.**What's your sensitivity?*
> I think its 800dpi but I can adapt to a different one.
> 
> *3.**What's your maximum budget?*
> Not more than 50$
> 
> *4.**Do you want additional buttons?*
> I mostly play Dota so at least 2 extra buttons would be nice.
> 
> *5.**What games do you play?*
> Dota 2. Sometimes CS GO, TF2
> 
> *6.**Do you mind about prediction?*
> Eh. I would rather not have it.
> 
> *7.**Other relevant information:*
> The mouse I have measures 110X55X35 and I find this size comfortable for my grip.
> 
> I'm thinking of buying the G300


For games like Dota you can use any small light mouse who's shape/grip you like. One exception I know of is the FK, which feels very inaccurate in that environment. Hopefully the FK1 will have fixed that problem.

For FPS games read this.

It also depends on what malfunction speed you need in FPS games. What ingame sensitivity do you use with 800dpi?

Practically every mouse has some kind of problem. You really have to do a search for each mouse you're interested in and see what problems people have with a particular mouse, find out the malfunction speed, etc..

I reviewed some of the most popular recent ones here.

There's a thread here about the g300 that shows the sensor is strangely placed. I've never used an off-centered sensor so I'm not sure exactly how it'd affect me.


----------



## uNfEiL

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> EC2 is probably too small, EC1 should work though.


Well I hope EC2 will be fine with my hand.

What about mouse pad for it?

Considering QCK+ cuz it's pretty much cheap and wanted to save some money because already buying EC2 which is pretty much expensive for me.


----------



## shamslapchopwow

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm
.
*2.What's your sensitivity?*
Varies between 800, 1600, and 2000.

*3.What's your maximum budget?*
No budget.

*4.Do you want additional buttons*?
Would prefer to have a couple side buttons.

*5.What games do you play?*
BF4, Titanfall, Nether, Contagion, Dead Island Epidemic

*6.Do you mind about prediction?*
Prefer not to have it.

*7.Other relevant information:*
Currently using a G500s along with a Steelseries Icemat 2.


----------



## Anonizer

What's your grip style?

-Palm and Fingertip grip.

What's your sensitivity?

-Currently at 2600 dpi.

What's your maximum budget?

-$100

Do you want additional buttons?

-If possible, but I wouldn't trade the quality of the mouse for additional buttons as I only use it for forward and back on browsers and screenshot hotkey.

What games do you play?

-Dota 2, LOL, CS:GO, BF3 and MMOs.

Do you mind about prediction?

-No prediction as much as possible.

Other relevant information:

-I currently use the TTeSPORTS Black Element (I also removed all the weights) mouse with steelseries qck.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anonizer*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> -Palm and Fingertip grip.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> -Currently at 2600 dpi.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> -$100
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> -If possible, but I wouldn't trade the quality of the mouse for additional buttons as I only use it for forward and back on browsers and screenshot hotkey.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> -Dota 2, LOL, CS:GO, BF3 and MMOs.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> -No prediction as much as possible.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> -I currently use the TTeSPORTS Black Element (I also removed all the weights) mouse with steelseries qck.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2650_50#post_22517719


----------



## Anonizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2650_50#post_22517719


Thanks! But my hands are fairly big so a small mouse would be out of the list. The mouse I'm currently using is 124mm long but my fingers are slightly off the mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anonizer*
> 
> Thanks! But my hands are fairly big so a small mouse would be out of the list. The mouse I'm currently using is 124mm long but my fingers are slightly off the mouse.


Fingertip grip is the one you want a small mouse for.


----------



## kepa416

What's your grip style?
fingertip Grip
What's your sensitivity?
450-800 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
unlimited
Do you want additional buttons?
forward/backward
What games do you play?
League of Legends CS:GO DayZ Arma III
Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer not to have it.
Other relevant information:
I use now Zowie EC1 eVo and now cover is broken and i must send it to warranty. Earlier i use Rival but keys has broken, G400 was good for me but I had used up. For more than two years ago I had DA, Gigabyte M8000X but i must using soft pad. Now i looking new mouse with well done case. I think about G502 but price very high.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kepa416*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip Grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 450-800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> unlimited
> Do you want additional buttons?
> forward/backward
> What games do you play?
> League of Legends CS:GO DayZ Arma III
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I would prefer not to have it.
> Other relevant information:
> I use now Zowie EC1 eVo and now cover is broken and i must send it to warranty. Earlier i use Rival but keys has broken, G400 was good for me but I had used up. For more than two years ago I had DA, Gigabyte M8000X but i must using soft pad. Now i looking new mouse with well done case. I think about G502 but price very high.


I wouldn't recommend the g502. It's way too heavy and has other problems.

Just stick with your EC1 if you like it. Use another mouse while you send it in for repairs.


----------



## kepa416

Ok i must use anothe mice when old is in the repairs but after 4 months using EC1 i think is not best from my hand and i want use other mice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kepa416*
> 
> Ok i must use anothe mice when old is in the repairs but after 4 months using EC1 i think is not best from my hand and i want use other mice.


How about the FK1

The Avior 7000 is also a very well built mouse with a great all-around sensor and works awesomely with fingertip grips.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, I'd say to wait till the FK1 comes out then buy it along with the Avior 7000 and return the one you don't like.


----------



## redrawn

What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
Depends: between ~1000 - 1600 but i reposition a lot.
What's your maximum budget?
100$
Do you want additional buttons?
Maybe 1 or 2.
What games do you play?
*Titanfall*. UT3. CS:GO. WarCraft 3.
Do you mind about prediction?
Better without.
Other relevant information:
My mouse experience includes.
Logitech MX500 (Ages ago) - back in the days i liked it.
Logitech Performance MX - Good one.... just not for gaming.
Razer Diamondback - Liked that one a lot
Razer Krait - Used it for a very long time.
Razer Orochi (Only in wired mode) - Good over all, but to small.
R.A.T 7 - Way to heavy for me. At least the gip was not good enough to lift it properly. Lift off distance was phenomenal.
R.A.T 3 - Weight was good, shape as well, didnt like the sensor. Too high lift off distance.

The G502 had an awesome grip but felt too heavy for me (tested inside of a store, but i dont know if the weight were in).

At the moment i use the Razer Abyssus and i think it is fine. I like the weight a lot. The LOD could be a bit less.
I would love to see a braided cord. I feel like i have got used to amidextroud shaped due to the Razers i used but i am open for a slight ergonomic shape.
The weight should not exceed 100g, from what i experienced inside the stores i would say the less the better.

With the Abyssus i have the problem that it is a bit hard to place the pinky and ring-finger. Sometimes the pinky is lifting up the mouse on fast movements to the right. So the perfect mouse either has to be slightly wider or have a better shape.
The RAT 7 had the pinky and thumb rest which was brilliant, but it had problems lifting it up and reposition it.
I have mid sized to big hands i would say.
I would love to give the Krait 2013 a try but this mouse is not available in germany. Maybe the Taipan?

I am not stuck with Razer. However i like the looks of the razer products.
I even thought about the R.A.T TE.

Zowie products just do not appeal to me. The SteelSeries Sensei is ok, but from what i have read maybe exceeds the weight limit?
I had the Deathadder 2013 in my hands and it feld pretty good. Same with the Imperator and the Roccat Savu.

I have read through this board for days now and I would love to get some advice.
PS: My Mousepad is a Razer Destructor. I try to adopt to it=>not repositioning that often but i somehow play only on 15x15cm on the mat.


----------



## Razzaa

Im looking for a decent nouse with programmable side thumb buttons. I had a Razer Naga but it died on me. I would prefer to keep it under 100$. Suggestions?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redrawn*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> Depends: between ~1000 - 1600 but i reposition a lot.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Maybe 1 or 2.
> What games do you play?
> *Titanfall*. UT3. CS:GO. WarCraft 3.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Better without.
> Other relevant information:
> My mouse experience includes.
> Logitech MX500 (Ages ago) - back in the days i liked it.
> Logitech Performance MX - Good one.... just not for gaming.
> Razer Diamondback - Liked that one a lot
> Razer Krait - Used it for a very long time.
> Razer Orochi (Only in wired mode) - Good over all, but to small.
> R.A.T 7 - Way to heavy for me. At least the gip was not good enough to lift it properly. Lift off distance was phenomenal.
> R.A.T 3 - Weight was good, shape as well, didnt like the sensor. Too high lift off distance.
> 
> The G502 had an awesome grip but felt too heavy for me (tested inside of a store, but i dont know if the weight were in).
> 
> At the moment i use the Razer Abyssus and i think it is fine. I like the weight a lot. The LOD could be a bit less.
> I would love to see a braided cord. I feel like i have got used to amidextroud shaped due to the Razers i used but i am open for a slight ergonomic shape.
> The weight should not exceed 100g, from what i experienced inside the stores i would say the less the better.
> 
> With the Abyssus i have the problem that it is a bit hard to place the pinky and ring-finger. Sometimes the pinky is lifting up the mouse on fast movements to the right. So the perfect mouse either has to be slightly wider or have a better shape.
> The RAT 7 had the pinky and thumb rest which was brilliant, but it had problems lifting it up and reposition it.
> I have mid sized to big hands i would say.
> I would love to give the Krait 2013 a try but this mouse is not available in germany. Maybe the Taipan?
> 
> I am not stuck with Razer. However i like the looks of the razer products.
> I even thought about the R.A.T TE.
> 
> Zowie products just do not appeal to me. The SteelSeries Sensei is ok, but from what i have read maybe exceeds the weight limit?
> I had the Deathadder 2013 in my hands and it feld pretty good. Same with the Imperator and the Roccat Savu.
> 
> I have read through this board for days now and I would love to get some advice.
> PS: My Mousepad is a Razer Destructor. I try to adopt to it=>not repositioning that often but i somehow play only on 15x15cm on the mat.


Why'd you ditch your krait and diamondback?

You use fingertip grip in CSGO??

Why have you completely ruled out all Zowie products? The FK1 should be pretty good _(as good or better than all those other mice you listed)_ for fingertip grip, and possibly even good for all 3 grips depending on your hand.

The Avior 7000 is a decent mouse for fingertip grip that you didn't mention. There's also the Roccat Kone Pure Military, but right now it's extremely overpriced at $110.


----------



## thebestt

Hello everyone, I am looking for a mouse that is at least 5.5" long and the closer to 6" the better. I want to game with it but as long as it is an optical mouse of some sort, length is the only important factor. Can someone give me any suggestions? Most mice top out at 5" and that length is just too short to be comfortable for me.


----------



## kepa416

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> How about the FK1
> 
> The Avior 7000 is also a very well built mouse with a great all-around sensor and works awesomely with fingertip grips.


Avior in my country is unavailable but this is the best choice. FK1 no if case if made of the same how a EC1


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebestt*
> 
> Hello everyone, I am looking for a mouse that is at least 5.5" long and the closer to 6" the better. I want to game with it but as long as it is an optical mouse of some sort, length is the only important factor. Can someone give me any suggestions? Most mice top out at 5" and that length is just too short to be comfortable for me.


This is all I got http://cdn.overclock.net/4/4e/4e717be9_mn78Y.jpeg


----------



## thebestt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> This is all I got http://cdn.overclock.net/4/4e/4e717be9_mn78Y.jpeg


That is an amazing piece of literature on mice. Unfortunately the longest ones are 132mm which is only 5.19". So far the longest one besides crazy novelty mice is a mouse by Razer called the Razer Ouroboros. It operates like the R.A.T. series but it starts at 4.85" and extends to 5.39"!! IT still might be a little too small. I did, however, find a company that sell ergonomic optical mice for different sized hands. The ergo mouse goes up to 6". Now to decide if I want the gamer mouse for $100 or the ergo mouse for $70.

Razer Ouroboros link
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-ouroboros#products

Ergo Mouse for XL, L, M, and S hands
http://ergo.contour-design.com/ergonomic-mouse/contour-mouse/features


----------



## helius

I need a recommendation for a gaming mouse. I need the best performer to play Counter-Strike Global Offensive. I've used Deathadder, Kinzu, Kinzu v2 and I am using Razer Abyssus now. If you see the trend here, Deathadder was a bit big for my hand so I've used smaller mice since. But I want to try something in the middle now. Let's say SteelSeries Kana v2 or Mionix Avior 7000? It is smaller than DA but bigger than Kinzu or Abyssus.

I switch between palm and claw grip. I play on low sensitivity (need 50cm for 360 rotation). Windows settings 6/11, no acceleration, I use MarkC mousefix, noforce commands in the launch properties of the game and enabled raw input in the game. I don't want the mouse to have any prediction or anything similar. I use 450 dpi at the moment and I would like to remain on it or on similar (~400). I want also 1000hz (all mice should have it anyway). I have sweaty hands so I would like to avoid gloss finish but it's not a must. 3 button is okay, more buttons a plus. Weight, cords and anything else doesn't matter.

I would also need a recommendation for a mousepad. Few years ago I played on hard surfaces which were smaller but I also used higher sensitivity. For the last few years I played with SteelSeries QcK heavy. Cloth feels nice and if it is fine for my new mouse I would buy a new QcK heavy. I read somewhere that Mionix's surface analyzer with Avior 7000 showed 70% for QcK so that should be fine. Is there a cloth pad which is the same or of higher quality (80%+) or only hard mouse pads?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius*
> 
> I need a recommendation for a gaming mouse. *I need the best performer to play Counter-Strike Global Offensive*. I've used Deathadder, Kinzu, Kinzu v2 and I am using Razer Abyssus now. If you see the trend here, Deathadder was a bit big for my hand so I've used smaller mice since. But I want to try something in the middle now. Let's say SteelSeries Kana v2 or Mionix Avior 7000? It is smaller than DA but bigger than Kinzu or Abyssus.
> 
> I switch between palm and claw grip. I play on low sensitivity (need 50cm for 360 rotation). Windows settings 6/11, no acceleration, I use MarkC mousefix, noforce commands in the launch properties of the game and enabled raw input in the game. I don't want the mouse to have any prediction or anything similar. I use 450 dpi at the moment and I would like to remain on it or on similar (~400). I want also 1000hz (all mice should have it anyway). I have sweaty hands so I would like to avoid gloss finish but it's not a must. 3 button is okay, more buttons a plus. Weight, cords and anything else doesn't matter.
> 
> I would also need a recommendation for a mousepad. Few years ago I played on hard surfaces which were smaller but I also used higher sensitivity. For the last few years I played with SteelSeries QcK heavy. Cloth feels nice and if it is fine for my new mouse I would buy a new QcK heavy. I read somewhere that Mionix's surface analyzer with Avior 7000 showed 70% for QcK so that should be fine. Is there a cloth pad which is the same or of higher quality (80%+) or only hard mouse pads?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

I recommend the supermat mouse pad if you're in the US. It's better than the qck in my opinion. The qck is a very inconsistent pad that changes it's amount of friction over time.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius*
> 
> I need a recommendation for a gaming mouse. I need the best performer to play Counter-Strike Global Offensive. I've used Deathadder, Kinzu, Kinzu v2 and I am using Razer Abyssus now. If you see the trend here, Deathadder was a bit big for my hand so I've used smaller mice since. But I want to try something in the middle now. Let's say SteelSeries Kana v2 or Mionix Avior 7000? It is smaller than DA but bigger than Kinzu or Abyssus.
> 
> I switch between palm and claw grip. I play on low sensitivity (need 50cm for 360 rotation). Windows settings 6/11, no acceleration, I use MarkC mousefix, noforce commands in the launch properties of the game and enabled raw input in the game. I don't want the mouse to have any prediction or anything similar. I use 450 dpi at the moment and I would like to remain on it or on similar (~400). I want also 1000hz (all mice should have it anyway). I have sweaty hands so I would like to avoid gloss finish but it's not a must. 3 button is okay, more buttons a plus. Weight, cords and anything else doesn't matter.
> 
> I would also need a recommendation for a mousepad. Few years ago I played on hard surfaces which were smaller but I also used higher sensitivity. For the last few years I played with SteelSeries QcK heavy. Cloth feels nice and if it is fine for my new mouse I would buy a new QcK heavy. I read somewhere that Mionix's surface analyzer with Avior 7000 showed 70% for QcK so that should be fine. Is there a cloth pad which is the same or of higher quality (80%+) or only hard mouse pads?


noforce commands are useless with hl2 games (even with cs 1.6 now). For mouse you could have a look on the Roccat Kone Pure Military, bigger than Abyssus and smaller than DA. About mouse pad.... Basically I don't agree with Kohler on most things, but in this case he's right, in my opinion. QcK is nothing special. Buy yourself a nice hard pad again (9HD, Destructor 2, MM400, G440). I used a Kone Pure Optical on 9HD last year. It worked very well together, if you ask me (ofc I'm very subjective here). If KPO wasn't slightly too small, I would have kept it for sure. So, have a look into their new variation Kone Pure Military. You won't regret it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

When he says noforce commands are useless with 1.6 he means if you're using raw input (which turns off accel).

Noforce commands still effect the menu of 1.6 though. I don't use any of the windows accel fixes so I use -noforcemspd -nomsaa. The game turns on AA by default so you need the latter command to turn it off.

From what I've heard and tested, hardpads can wear out the mousefeet, and typically have lower friction than cloth pads. It's mostly preference, but in my opinion the ideal mousepad is one that provides enough friction for stopping power, without hindering the smallest movements. I've never found a reason to use a hard pad.


----------



## helius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> I recommend the supermat mouse pad if you're in the US. It's better than the qck in my opinion. The qck is a very inconsistent pad that changes it's amount of friction over time.


Thanks. I know from my own experience that Intelli mice were the best for FPS games but not only they are difficult to find, I also didn't like their shape after switching to other mice. Unfortunately I'm not in the US so I'll need other recommendations for a mouse pad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> noforce commands are useless with hl2 games (even with cs 1.6 now). For mouse you could have a look on the Roccat Kone Pure Military, bigger than Abyssus and smaller than DA. About mouse pad.... Basically I don't agree with Kohler on most things, but in this case he's right, in my opinion. QcK is nothing special. Buy yourself a nice hard pad again (9HD, Destructor 2, MM400, G440). I used a Kone Pure Optical on 9HD last year. It worked very well together, if you ask me (ofc I'm very subjective here). If KPO wasn't slightly too small, I would have kept it for sure. So, have a look into their new variation Kone Pure Military. You won't regret it.


Okay thanks I'll look into it. I use noforce commands out of habit, I guess it's time to move on. Is mousefix necessary? And I want to ask if there's a method for rawinput to become default in windows? Or it can only be manipulated in-game (by the game itself or rawinput program)?
Long time passed since I used hard mats, I don't know what the feel will be. But I'll probably try one.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> When he says noforce commands are useless with 1.6 he means if you're using raw input (which turns off accel).
> 
> Noforce commands still effect the menu of 1.6 though. I don't use any of the windows accel fixes so I use -noforcemspd -nomsaa. The game turns on AA by default so you need the latter command to turn it off.
> 
> From what I've heard and tested, hardpads can wear out the mousefeet, and typically have lower friction than cloth pads. It's mostly preference, but in my opinion the ideal mousepad is one that provides enough friction for stopping power, without hindering the smallest movements. I've never found a reason to use a hard pad.


Try out Hiro/Megasoma 2 =) From what I've tested (9HD) you need to replace feet every 1-1.5 years (every day use). You didn't find a reason because you don't use high(er) sensitivity. High sens needs lower friction to feel comfortable/not annoying, believe it or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius*
> 
> Thanks. I know from my own experience that Intelli mice were the best for FPS games but not only they are difficult to find, I also didn't like their shape after switching to other mice. Unfortunately I'm not in the US so I'll need other recommendations for a mouse pad.
> Okay thanks I'll look into it. I use noforce commands out of habit, I guess it's time to move on. Is mousefix necessary? And I want to ask if there's a method for rawinput to become default in windows? Or it can only be manipulated in-game (by the game itself or rawinput program)?
> Long time passed since I used hard mats, I don't know what the feel will be. But I'll probably try one.


Raw input is raw input. Windows shouldn't have accel on when you ticked off EPP. Don't know what you want exactly.


----------



## redrawn

Spoiler: Original Post



What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
Depends: between ~1000 - 1600 but i reposition a lot.
What's your maximum budget?
100$
Do you want additional buttons?
Maybe 1 or 2.
What games do you play?
Titanfall. UT3. CS:GO. WarCraft 3.
Do you mind about prediction?
Better without.
Other relevant information:
My mouse experience includes.
Logitech MX500 (Ages ago) - back in the days i liked it.
Logitech Performance MX - Good one.... just not for gaming.
Razer Diamondback - Liked that one a lot
Razer Krait - Used it for a very long time.
Razer Orochi (Only in wired mode) - Good over all, but to small.
R.A.T 7 - Way to heavy for me. At least the gip was not good enough to lift it properly. Lift off distance was phenomenal.
R.A.T 3 - Weight was good, shape as well, didnt like the sensor. Too high lift off distance.

The G502 had an awesome grip but felt too heavy for me (tested inside of a store, but i dont know if the weight were in).

At the moment i use the Razer Abyssus and i think it is fine. I like the weight a lot. The LOD could be a bit less.
I would love to see a braided cord. I feel like i have got used to amidextroud shaped due to the Razers i used but i am open for a slight ergonomic shape.
The weight should not exceed 100g, from what i experienced inside the stores i would say the less the better.

With the Abyssus i have the problem that it is a bit hard to place the pinky and ring-finger. Sometimes the pinky is lifting up the mouse on fast movements to the right. So the perfect mouse either has to be slightly wider or have a better shape.
The RAT 7 had the pinky and thumb rest which was brilliant, but it had problems lifting it up and reposition it.
I have mid sized to big hands i would say.
I would love to give the Krait 2013 a try but this mouse is not available in germany. Maybe the Taipan?

I am not stuck with Razer. However i like the looks of the razer products.
I even thought about the R.A.T TE.

Zowie products just do not appeal to me. The SteelSeries Sensei is ok, but from what i have read maybe exceeds the weight limit?
I had the Deathadder 2013 in my hands and it feld pretty good. Same with the Imperator and the Roccat Savu.

I have read through this board for days now and I would love to get some advice.
PS: My Mousepad is a Razer Destructor. I try to adopt to it=>not repositioning that often but i somehow play only on 15x15cm on the mat.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Why'd you ditch your krait and diamondback?
> 
> You use fingertip grip in CSGO??
> 
> Why have you completely ruled out all Zowie products? The FK1 should be pretty good _(as good or better than all those other mice you listed)_ for fingertip grip, and possibly even good for all 3 grips depending on your hand.
> 
> The Avior 7000 is a decent mouse for fingertip grip that you didn't mention. There's also the Roccat Kone Pure Military, but right now it's extremely overpriced at $110.


Well the Diamondback had those rubbery sides that dissolved more and more.
Then i had the Krait working for quite a while but it got stolen at some LAN party.

Yes I tried to learn another type of grip, but I just can't do it.

The shapes i am used to and I am kind of looking for are


The completely round shape of the Zowie just does not work for me, because i tried an Intelli Mouse and just coulnt lift it properly.
So there is the Avior that might fit right? Any other suggestions or is that the final call?

Again, Thanks for any reply.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redrawn*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Original Post
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> Depends: between ~1000 - 1600 but i reposition a lot.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Maybe 1 or 2.
> What games do you play?
> Titanfall. UT3. CS:GO. WarCraft 3.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Better without.
> Other relevant information:
> My mouse experience includes.
> Logitech MX500 (Ages ago) - back in the days i liked it.
> Logitech Performance MX - Good one.... just not for gaming.
> Razer Diamondback - Liked that one a lot
> Razer Krait - Used it for a very long time.
> Razer Orochi (Only in wired mode) - Good over all, but to small.
> R.A.T 7 - Way to heavy for me. At least the gip was not good enough to lift it properly. Lift off distance was phenomenal.
> R.A.T 3 - Weight was good, shape as well, didnt like the sensor. Too high lift off distance.
> 
> The G502 had an awesome grip but felt too heavy for me (tested inside of a store, but i dont know if the weight were in).
> 
> At the moment i use the Razer Abyssus and i think it is fine. I like the weight a lot. The LOD could be a bit less.
> I would love to see a braided cord. I feel like i have got used to amidextroud shaped due to the Razers i used but i am open for a slight ergonomic shape.
> The weight should not exceed 100g, from what i experienced inside the stores i would say the less the better.
> 
> With the Abyssus i have the problem that it is a bit hard to place the pinky and ring-finger. Sometimes the pinky is lifting up the mouse on fast movements to the right. So the perfect mouse either has to be slightly wider or have a better shape.
> The RAT 7 had the pinky and thumb rest which was brilliant, but it had problems lifting it up and reposition it.
> I have mid sized to big hands i would say.
> I would love to give the Krait 2013 a try but this mouse is not available in germany. Maybe the Taipan?
> 
> I am not stuck with Razer. However i like the looks of the razer products.
> I even thought about the R.A.T TE.
> 
> Zowie products just do not appeal to me. The SteelSeries Sensei is ok, but from what i have read maybe exceeds the weight limit?
> I had the Deathadder 2013 in my hands and it feld pretty good. Same with the Imperator and the Roccat Savu.
> 
> I have read through this board for days now and I would love to get some advice.
> PS: My Mousepad is a Razer Destructor. I try to adopt to it=>not repositioning that often but i somehow play only on 15x15cm on the mat.
> 
> 
> Well the Diamondback had those rubbery sides that dissolved more and more.
> Then i had the Krait working for quite a while but it got stolen at some LAN party.
> 
> Yes I tried to learn another type of grip, but I just can't do it.
> 
> The shapes i am used to and I am kind of looking for are
> 
> 
> The completely round shape of the Zowie just does not work for me, because i tried an Intelli Mouse and just coulnt lift it properly.
> So there is the Avior that might fit right? Any other suggestions or is that the final call?
> 
> Again, Thanks for any reply.


Yeah looks like the Avior would probably fit best, just make sure you get the 7000 and not the 8200


----------



## racoiaws

I'm looking to buy a mouse. It's important that it have a sensitive middle mouse button, so that I don't have to push down hard on it. I am replacing my Zowie EC1, which was a great mouse. After 2.5 years, the middle button started to malfunction, though.

What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *I used the medium setting of the EC1, which I think is 1150 dpi (and 500 Hz.)*
What's your maximum budget? *Preferably around $15-25, but I could go higher if it's justified.*
Do you want additional buttons? *Not needed, though a couple side buttons couldn't hurt, so long as they don't get in the way of my grip.*
What games do you play? *It varies.*
Do you mind about prediction? *It doesn't matter*


----------



## Moarcupcake

1. What's your grip style?
Claw Grip
What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi and in game sensitivity of 1.35
What's your maximum budget?
80$
Do you want additional buttons?
I want 2 additional side buttons on the left side of the mouse. I don't really mind if there are more.
What games do you play?
fps I mostly play Counter-strike: Global Offensive. Sometimes RTS games.

Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want prediction. I mind a lot.
Other relevant information:
I want a really low Lift Off Distance and I want the amount of force needed to press down the buttons to be somewhat high. I would also really like for it to be able to store onboard memory. I don't care much about the cord or flashing lights or stuff like that. Also I would prefer for the mouse to be optical, because I would prefer to stick to my steelseries QCK heavy. I don't really care about the shape as long as it isn't specifically for a left handed gamer.


----------



## Xampov

Hi ! Looking forward for a mouse, I need one pretty fast.


What's your grip style?
*Not sur if I'm palm, claw, or hybrid.*
What's your sensitivity?
*55cm/360° when playing FPS, doesn't matter for others games.*
What's your maximum budget?
*$100*
Do you want additional buttons?
*At least 2, not a lot more.*
What games do you play?
*CS:GO and LoL.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*No prediction*
Other relevant information:
*Prefer driverless, want low LOD, and I have a small hand (15 cm long)*

Ty for your help.


----------



## hanaxxaru

What's your grip style?
Fingertip/Claw.
What's your sensitivity?
1000-2000.
What's your maximum budget?
50.
Do you want additional buttons?
No but don't mind as long it is not too crowded.
What games do you play?
Wide ranged of games.
Do you mind about prediction?
Don't mind.
Other relevant information: My hands is around 18cm long, right-handed. Currently using Deathadder, feels nice but long and forced my hands to palm it.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/Claw.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1000-2000.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 50.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No but don't mind as long it is not too crowded.
> What games do you play?
> Wide ranged of games.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't mind.
> Other relevant information: My hands is around 18cm long, right-handed. Currently using Deathadder, feels nice but long and forced my hands to palm it.


Avior 7000

FK1


----------



## hanaxxaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Avior 7000
> 
> FK1


avior not available in my country while the fk1 sadly overpriced here.. around 70 dollars.. mind share other suggestions?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> avior not available in my country while the fk1 sadly overpriced here.. around 70 dollars.. mind share other suggestions?


A4tech V8 is good for claw

If you need smaller than that, maybe the Roccat pyra?

Edit: I should mention that both of the sensors only work in 400dpi steps. V8 PCS is around 1.9m/s and pyra is 4.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xampov*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi ! Looking forward for a mouse, I need one pretty fast.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Not sur if I'm palm, claw, or hybrid.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *55cm/360° when playing FPS, doesn't matter for others games.*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$100*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *At least 2, not a lot more.*
> What games do you play?
> *CS:GO and LoL.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *No prediction*
> Other relevant information:
> *Prefer driverless, want low LOD, and I have a small hand (15 cm long)*
> 
> Ty for your help.


Since you need it fast I would suggest an Avior7000. Hopefully the shape will work for you since you have small hands.

If you could wait a few weeks I'd suggest trying an FK1 and Kone Pure Military.

You should also be informed about what you're giving up in FPS games when you buy new mice though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moarcupcake*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw Grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 dpi and in game sensitivity of 1.35
> What's your maximum budget?
> 80$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I want 2 additional side buttons on the left side of the mouse. I don't really mind if there are more.
> What games do you play?
> fps I mostly play Counter-strike: Global Offensive. Sometimes RTS games.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't want prediction. I mind a lot.
> Other relevant information:
> I want a really low Lift Off Distance and I want the amount of force needed to press down the buttons to be somewhat high. I would also really like for it to be able to store onboard memory. I don't care much about the cord or flashing lights or stuff like that. Also I would prefer for the mouse to be optical, because I would prefer to stick to my steelseries QCK heavy. I don't really care about the shape as long as it isn't specifically for a left handed gamer.


Avior 7000, or wait and try the FK1 and Kone Pure Military.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *racoiaws*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking to buy a mouse. It's important that it have a sensitive middle mouse button, so that I don't have to push down hard on it. I am replacing my Zowie EC1, which was a great mouse. After 2.5 years, the middle button started to malfunction, though.
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *I used the medium setting of the EC1, which I think is 1150 dpi (and 500 Hz.)*
> What's your maximum budget? *Preferably around $15-25, but I could go higher if it's justified.*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Not needed, though a couple side buttons couldn't hurt, so long as they don't get in the way of my grip.*
> What games do you play? *It varies.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *It doesn't matter*


So you want a mouse that's better than the EC1 but also half the price?

Well since you don't need side buttons there's the Microsoft WMO, Zowie Mico, Logitech G100, Razer Abyssus, and this I-Rocks mouse: http://www.esreality.com/post/2473061/re-new-gaming-mouse-development/#pid2468765 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1420402/i-rocks-7810r/0_50#post_20833236

They're not all under $30 but I think they're all around that price. This is something you'll want to consider when buying a new mouse as well.


----------



## hanaxxaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> A4tech V8 is good for claw
> 
> If you need smaller than that, maybe the Roccat pyra?
> 
> Edit: I should mention that both of the sensors only work in 400dpi steps. V8 PCS is around 1.9m/s and pyra is 4.


thanks.. that's very detailed.. really high dpi steps though.. i noticed a cooler master mice, which is the xornet.. recommended or not? it has nice shape..


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> thanks.. that's very detailed.. really high dpi steps though.. i noticed a cooler master mice, which is the xornet.. recommended or not? it has nice shape..


Xornet work optimal at 500dpi, higher setting lowers PCS. 3+ m/s PCS

Steps of 250 from 250-2000


----------



## SolidSpeerlaiye

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palmgrip

*2. What's your sensitivity?
*In terms of DPI anything from 400-1800 would be okay. I don't really need anything above that.

*3. What's your maximum budget?
*If the quality is right I'm willing to pay whatever price

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I wouldn't mind them but I aint going to use them much for reasons stated below. No more than 2 though.

*5. What games do you play?
*Mostly fps games like tf2, quake and xonotic. Also the occasional strategy game/rpg.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes.

*7. Other relevant information:*
I suffer from "de quervain tenosynovitis" so I'd really like a mouse with a good rest for my thumb. Currently I have a DA 2013 and there really isn't enough of a rest there for it to not hurt after 30-60 minutes of using the computer. Ideally my thumb should be completely stretched(hence the palm grip) since if I even claw grip a little bit I can't play for more than 5 minutes. For that reason the mouse shouldn't weigh too much(because effort when lifting it up etc.). My hand is around 19.5 cm from the tip of my middle finger to the base.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> thanks.. that's very detailed.. really high dpi steps though.. i noticed a cooler master mice, which is the xornet.. recommended or not? it has nice shape..






, which is insanely high. By looking at the bottom of the mouse I'm not even sure the tape trick would work since the part that you typically cover with tape is already opaque.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSpeerlaiye*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palmgrip
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?
> *In terms of DPI anything from 400-1800 would be okay. I don't really need anything above that.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?
> *If the quality is right I'm willing to pay whatever price
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> I wouldn't mind them but I aint going to use them much for reasons stated below. No more than 2 though.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?
> *Mostly fps games like tf2, quake and xonotic. Also the occasional strategy game/rpg.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I suffer from "de quervain tenosynovitis" so I'd really like a mouse with a good rest for my thumb. Currently I have a DA 2013 and there really isn't enough of a rest there for it to not hurt after 30-60 minutes of using the computer. Ideally my thumb should be completely stretched(hence the palm grip) since if I even claw grip a little bit I can't play for more than 5 minutes. For that reason the mouse shouldn't weigh too much(because effort when lifting it up etc.). My hand is around 19.5 cm from the tip of my middle finger to the base.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

You might want to wait a few weeks and try the FK1 and Kone Pure Military when they're available at normal prices.

There's also the EC1 from Zowie, and Roccat Savu.


----------



## hanaxxaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , which is insanely high. By looking at the bottom of the mouse I'm not even sure the tape trick would work since the part that you typically cover with tape is already opaque.


whoa, that's really high.. but since i'm interested with that kind of shape, is there any other mouse similar like that?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , which is insanely high. By looking at the bottom of the mouse I'm not even sure the tape trick would work since the part that you typically cover with tape is already opaque.


"tape-trick" doesn't work on the xornet, that's true, but with the right firmware(i suggest FW. 55), the LOD is on zowie level, so very low, and still with 3m/s and clean tracking @500dpi.


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> whoa, that's really high.. but since i'm interested with that kind of shape, is there any other mouse similar like that?


There just happens to be an identical one with a different sensor. Storm Spawn.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> whoa, that's really high.. but since i'm interested with that kind of shape, is there any other mouse similar like that?


Maybe this I-Rocks mouse: http://www.esreality.com/post/2473061/re-new-gaming-mouse-development/#pid2468765 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1420402/i-rocks-7810r/0_50#post_20833236

TK421 might know about others. He also mentioned the Roccat pyra.

I listed some in my last post, but they're 3 button mice.


----------



## hanaxxaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Maybe this I-Rocks mouse: http://www.esreality.com/post/2473061/re-new-gaming-mouse-development/#pid2468765 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1420402/i-rocks-7810r/0_50#post_20833236
> 
> TK421 might know about others. He also mentioned the Roccat pyra.
> 
> I listed some in my last post, but they're 3 button mice.


thanks for lists.. i will try search for those mouse and test it.. btw, sensor wise, are they good? xornet, i-rocks and pyra?


----------



## thuNDa

nvm.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> whoa, that's really high.. but since i'm interested with that kind of shape, is there any other mouse similar like that?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2720#post_22555480


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanaxxaru*
> 
> thanks for lists.. i will try search for those mouse and test it.. btw, sensor wise, are they good? xornet, i-rocks and pyra?


I've never tested them, but they have some of the best sensors available. It really depends on how they were implemented.


----------



## SolidSpeerlaiye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You might want to wait a few weeks and try the FK1 and Kone Pure Military when they're available at normal prices.
> 
> There's also the EC1 from Zowie, and Roccat Savu.


Isn't the FK optimized for a claw grip?


----------



## TK421

Anyone know if the FK is suitable for palm grip?


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Anyone know if the FK is suitable for palm grip?


FK1 is a safer bet for palm gripping.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSpeerlaiye*
> 
> Isn't the FK optimized for a claw grip?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Anyone know if the FK is suitable for palm grip?


It depends on the size of your hand. If you have small or thick hands you can probably palm it. The FK1 is larger, but I don't know if it's significantly larger to where most people can palm it without cramping. We'll have to see when it gets released.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> FK1 is a safer bet for palm gripping.


Sorry, I meant the FK1









Middle finger tip to wrist 19.5cm, thumb around 6.5. Pointer 8cm and middle is around 9-9.2cm.

Can palm without problem?


----------



## ayolodam

Hey,
I am looking for a mouse with /\ shape like Zowie AM or g100s. Middle size hands, but I use a mix of fingertip and clawgrip.
The shape of Zowie AM has been my favourite, but I don't like the Huano switches, I would prefer Omron ones.
Atm im using Zowie FK 2014 and I dont like it, but don't have any other mouse.

My current ideas are getting a new Zowie AM (since my is broken) and kinzu v2 (or pro, but no idea about the shape).
Any other options?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayolodam*
> 
> Hey,
> I am looking for a mouse with /\ shape like Zowie AM


You're kidding me... why would you do that...

That shape is "anti-grip". All it does is hinder you when trying to lift the mouse...


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You're kidding me... why would you do that...
> 
> That shape is "anti-grip". All it does is hinder you when trying to lift the mouse...


Maybe he prefers it that way? Everyone doesn't think like you do.


----------



## mdtapeba

I would like to get a new mouse, because atm i have this thing http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=de/node/1338 and its pretty broken.
What's your grip style?
Palm is prefered, but ill be able to adjust if needed.
What's your sensitivity?
800dpi Mouse and 1200 ingame
What's your maximum budget?
40 euro
Do you want additional buttons?
two for my thumb. For nades and stuff
What games do you play?
Cs:Go
Do you mind about prediction?
Please help me here, i think prediction is bad for cs? so rather not
Other relevant information:
My hands are quite small/ it would be nice if i could order the mouse on german amazon.

I appreciate every answer and please excuse my english^^


----------



## hza

For a little more (~ 45-48 EUR) you'd get G400s or Savu, mdtapeba.


----------



## turnschuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSpeerlaiye*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palmgrip
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?
> *In terms of DPI anything from 400-1800 would be okay. I don't really need anything above that.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?
> *If the quality is right I'm willing to pay whatever price
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> I wouldn't mind them but I aint going to use them much for reasons stated below. No more than 2 though.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?
> *Mostly fps games like tf2, quake and xonotic. Also the occasional strategy game/rpg.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> I suffer from "de quervain tenosynovitis" so I'd really like a mouse with a good rest for my thumb. Currently I have a DA 2013 and there really isn't enough of a rest there for it to not hurt after 30-60 minutes of using the computer. Ideally my thumb should be completely stretched(hence the palm grip) since if I even claw grip a little bit I can't play for more than 5 minutes. For that reason the mouse shouldn't weigh too much(because effort when lifting it up etc.). My hand is around 19.5 cm from the tip of my middle finger to the base.


Hey wondering why nobody suggested you to look at the Mionix Naos 7000 yet. It has a thumb rest, is super comfy to palm grip according to a lot of people, has a good sensor, good built quality and is not that heavy. It just costs a little more.

Be sure to get the naos 7000 (not 8200 with an inferior sensor) if your interested.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> Hey wondering why nobody suggested you to look at the Mionix Naos 7000 yet. It has a thumb rest, is super comfy to palm grip according to a lot of people, has a good sensor, good built qualityand is not that heavy. It just costs a little more.
> Just do NOT buy the naos 8200 with the inferior laser sensor.^^


101


----------



## mdtapeba

Thanks for the reply. Sadly i really dont like the logitech,b ut ill look into the savu. Do you think the kana v2 is an alternative?


----------



## turnschuh

/delete

edit: no option to delete a post here?^^


----------



## hza

Never had a Kana v2. Savu is great in terms of tracking and build quality, IF you like the shape and/or size of it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Maybe he prefers it that way? Everyone doesn't think like you do.


Yeah, I'm trying to find out *why* he prefers it that way.


----------



## ayolodam

What's your grip style?
A mix of fingertip and clawgrip.
What's your sensitivity?
mid to slow.
What's your maximum budget?
whatever
Do you want additional buttons?
whatever
What games do you play?
FPS. csgo, tf2 and cpma.
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, please no prediction.
Other relevant information:
I want it to be light and narrow like zowie am and with NOT Huano switches.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayolodam*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> A mix of fingertip and clawgrip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> mid to slow.
> What's your maximum budget?
> whatever
> Do you want additional buttons?
> whatever
> What games do you play?
> FPS. csgo, tf2 and cpma.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, please no prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> I want it to be light and narrow like zowie am and with NOT Huano switches.


I don't think there's anything light enough and small enough with a good enough PCS unless the G100s is fine for you. Otherwise there's the FK1 but that still has Huanos, and the Avior 7000.


----------



## Kirasagi

Hi guys I recently bought an Avior 7000 and I need a new mousepad. Any recommendations?

I play on 1800 dpi. I mostly play fps (CoD, BF, Titanfall) and Osu.

7. Hard or cloth? cloth

8. Rough or smooth? not sure

9. Which size approximately? just for my mouse. i dont want one of those big ones

10. What's your maximum budget? around $20

All I have right now is either the Goliathus speed or Qck.. though I'm liking the Qck more because its plain black. How are these two? Any other recommendations?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirasagi*
> 
> Hi guys I recently bought an Avior 7000 and I need a new mousepad. Any recommendations?
> 
> I play on 1800 dpi. I mostly play fps (CoD, BF, Titanfall) and Osu.
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth? cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth? not sure
> 
> 9. Which size approximately? just for my mouse. i dont want one of those big ones
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget? around $20
> 
> All I have right now is either the Goliathus speed or Qck.. though I'm liking the Qck more because its plain black. How are these two? Any other recommendations?


If you're in the US I'd recommend a supermat. It's more consistent than the qck. The qck changes it's amount of friction over time.

The razer pads are *way* over priced. And buying those kinds of pads is really luck of the draw as far as if you'd like it or not. Mouse pads are something you definitely need to test for yourself.

What I look for in a pad is enough friction for stopping power, without being too much to hinder the smallest movements. The supermat provides this for me better than any "gaming" mouse pad I've tried.

Also, logos on the pad hinder tracking on some mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayolodam*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> A mix of fingertip and clawgrip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> mid to slow.
> What's your maximum budget?
> whatever
> Do you want additional buttons?
> whatever
> What games do you play?
> FPS. csgo, tf2 and cpma.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, please no prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> I want it to be light and narrow like zowie am and with NOT Huano switches.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## xquisit

*What's your grip style?*
Either or.. Have tried both methods for half a decade, no complaints either side.

*What's your sensitivity?*
(Low to Med.. more towards Low)

*What's your maximum budget?*
$60 (that includes shipping + CA tax)

*Do you want additional buttons?*
No

*What games do you play?*
CS:GO + Aion

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I do

*Other relevant information:*
I sweat a lot


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirasagi*
> 
> Hi guys I recently bought an Avior 7000 and I need a new mousepad. Any recommendations?
> 
> I play on 1800 dpi. I mostly play fps (CoD, BF, Titanfall) and Osu.
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth? cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth? not sure
> 
> 9. Which size approximately? just for my mouse. i dont want one of those big ones
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget? around $20
> 
> All I have right now is either the Goliathus speed or Qck.. though I'm liking the Qck more because its plain black. How are these two? Any other recommendations?


Those are fine, I'd go with the SS cause it's cheaper. If you want a small mat, there's the QcK Mini. Otherwise I'd get the medium sized standard QcK. It's basically the mat for everyone who hasn't really owned a gaming mousepad before or isn't sure what they want in terms of exact cloth feel yet. Don't worry about inconsistency over time, if you aren't playing games in a tournament it really won't matter.


----------



## fateswarm

What's your grip style?
Claw

What's your sensitivity?
Mid

What's your maximum budget?
~50-60

Do you want additional buttons?
Y

What games do you play?
CAD Design

Do you mind about prediction?
Y

Other relevant information:

I had a G700 for years and that thing can't die. I want a mouse for the office PC now and I'd like to keep something similarly good. I'm worried that I'm too used to its side buttons.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xquisit*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Either or.. Have tried both methods for half a decade, no complaints either side.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> (Low to Med.. more towards Low)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> $60 (that includes shipping + CA tax)
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> No
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO + Aion
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I do
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I sweat a lot


The Rival might be a mouse to look at if you don't mind shape or weight but want a solid sensor in a comfortable, albeit large, shell and coming in right at your price point. I had a Rival for a while and moved up to the Avior 7000, but it's up to you if you really want to expand your budget that much. It's worth expanding to move to the Mionix, though. There's also the FK1 but...if you sweat a lot I doubt it will be grippy enough. The coating on the Avior sticks to your hands really easily with even minor sweat and the Rival has very grippy rubberized sides.


----------



## mdtapeba

I think ill go for the savu, but i read it also has smoothing. My question is, if smoothing only occurs at high dpi, or if it is a general problem.


----------



## xquisit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Rival might be a mouse to look at if you don't mind shape or weight but want a solid sensor in a comfortable, albeit large, shell and coming in right at your price point. I had a Rival for a while and moved up to the Avior 7000, but it's up to you if you really want to expand your budget that much. It's worth expanding to move to the Mionix, though. There's also the FK1 but...if you sweat a lot I doubt it will be grippy enough. The coating on the Avior sticks to your hands really easily with even minor sweat and the Rival has very grippy rubberized sides.


Build quality is important, I am worried the rubber sides will wear out on my rival (I understand I am gaming competitively, so it shouldn't be hard to replace my mouse every 1 year..but if I can keep something for over 10 years and still use it... I don't see a problem with it)... So: Is the Avior worth the step-up, if build quality is another concern?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xquisit*
> 
> Build quality is important, I am worried the rubber sides will wear out on my rival (I understand I am gaming competitively, so it shouldn't be hard to replace my mouse every 1 year..but if I can keep something for over 10 years and still use it... I don't see a problem with it)... So: Is the Avior worth the step-up, if build quality is another concern?


Yeah if reliability is a concern then I'd go with the Avior because even if it does need service their warranty service is usually excellent.


----------



## redrawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah looks like the Avior would probably fit best, just make sure you get the 7000 and not the 8200


Well I have received The Avior 7000 and The Taipan.
The Mionix Software is way better than the Synapse2.0 s...stuff.
But so far the Taipan feels a bit more comfy to play with.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## hfcobra

What's your grip style?
Fingertip, with very large hands (I'm 6'5")

What's your sensitivity?
18in/360

What's your maximum budget?
No budget for perfection









Do you want additional buttons?
At least one side button but two is better

What games do you play?
Everything, although I am very competitive with FPS and compete in tourneys.

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, absolutely

Other relevant information:
LOD: Under 2mm please
Ambidextrous: I would prefer to have it although I would not mind trying something new if it is really nice
Weight: I like light, how light I am still figuring out
Wireless: Absolutely not, however I would like my cable to feel like it isn't there. I HATE when it tugs on my hand and completely ruins my concentration.
Non-braided cord: Yes, unless braids have become less stiff recently
Glossy: Undecided
Button Activation force: I would prefer light but I use an FK for competition right now and it works fine.
Driverless: Doesn't matter
Onboard memory: doesn't matter

I have owned quite a few mice in my time. The notable mentions would be G500, Deathadder, Xai, AM, FK, and Abyssus (in that order).

G500:
I liked it a lot but it was my first mouse. The shape was fine but I held it with a fingertip grip so technically not correctly. I have since learned that it is not a great mouse for competition.

Deathadder:Black Edition:
Sensor felt amazing. Other than that I could not stand the shape. I couldn't even lift the mouse sometimes and my hand cramped up a lot.

Xai:
I really, REALLY liked this mouse. Just about everything was perfect on it. The only thing that I did not like was the sensor. I read that it was not perfect but I had yet to use a perfect sensor so I could not notice. The shape and rubber coating were amazing though. Still looked like new when I sold it because I don't sweat much and my hand usually sticks to my mouse well.

AM:
Sides were not a good shape for me and led to some hand cramps. However just about everything else was good. The buttons were too hard to press though. I was glad the FK's were slightly eaiser to press when I switched.

FK:
Current daily driver. Amazing mouse. I have no complaints at all. The only noticeable improvement for me would be to have slightly lighter switches.

Abyssus:
Felt cheap and LOD was too high sometimes. The cord was stiff and since the mouse was so light it really threw me off when I used it. I missed my side buttons. Sat too high up and I always felt like I was going to make the mouse topple over due to the height, shape, and extreme light weight.

Basically I am wondering if I should even be thinking about replacing my FK right now with one of the newer mice out there. I am debating between the FK1, Mionix NAOS 7000, Mionix AVIOR 7000, Logitech G502, Raptor M45, and Roccat Kone Pure Military, and Ninox Aurora.

The top two mice seem to be the FK1 and Pure Military since they are the lightest and both have the 3310 sensor. Is that sensor that much better than the 3090 though? How are the switches?

The other option is to get a lighter mouse with the same sensor and lighter buttons. This would be the Ninox Aurora. I will probably end up buying this regardless to give bst support so he can rerelease the mouse with a 3310 sensor, which I will also buy.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip, with very large hands (I'm 6'5")
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 18in/360
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> No budget for perfection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At least one side button but two is better
> 
> What games do you play?
> Everything, although I am very competitive with FPS and compete in tourneys.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, absolutely
> 
> Other relevant information:
> LOD: Under 2mm please
> Ambidextrous: I would prefer to have it although I would not mind trying something new if it is really nice
> Weight: I like light, how light I am still figuring out
> Wireless: Absolutely not, however I would like my cable to feel like it isn't there. I HATE when it tugs on my hand and completely ruins my concentration.
> Non-braided cord: Yes, unless braids have become less stiff recently
> Glossy: Undecided
> Button Activation force: I would prefer light but I use an FK for competition right now and it works fine.
> Driverless: Doesn't matter
> Onboard memory: doesn't matter
> 
> I have owned quite a few mice in my time. The notable mentions would be G500, Deathadder, Xai, AM, FK, and Abyssus (in that order).
> 
> G500:
> I liked it a lot but it was my first mouse. The shape was fine but I held it with a fingertip grip so technically not correctly. I have since learned that it is not a great mouse for competition.
> 
> Deathadder:Black Edition:
> Sensor felt amazing. Other than that I could not stand the shape. I couldn't even lift the mouse sometimes and my hand cramped up a lot.
> 
> Xai:
> I really, REALLY liked this mouse. Just about everything was perfect on it. The only thing that I did not like was the sensor. I read that it was not perfect but I had yet to use a perfect sensor so I could not notice. The shape and rubber coating were amazing though. Still looked like new when I sold it because I don't sweat much and my hand usually sticks to my mouse well.
> 
> AM:
> Sides were not a good shape for me and led to some hand cramps. However just about everything else was good. The buttons were too hard to press though. I was glad the FK's were slightly eaiser to press when I switched.
> 
> FK:
> Current daily driver. Amazing mouse. I have no complaints at all. The only noticeable improvement for me would be to have slightly lighter switches.
> 
> Abyssus:
> Felt cheap and LOD was too high sometimes. The cord was stiff and since the mouse was so light it really threw me off when I used it. I missed my side buttons. Sat too high up and I always felt like I was going to make the mouse topple over due to the height, shape, and extreme light weight.
> 
> Basically I am wondering if I should even be thinking about replacing my FK right now with one of the newer mice out there. I am debating between the FK1, Mionix NAOS 7000, Mionix AVIOR 7000, Logitech G502, Raptor M45, and Roccat Kone Pure Military, and Ninox Aurora.
> 
> The top two mice seem to be the FK1 and Pure Military since they are the lightest and both have the 3310 sensor. Is that sensor that much better than the 3090 though? How are the switches?
> 
> The other option is to get a lighter mouse with the same sensor and lighter buttons. This would be the Ninox Aurora. I will probably end up buying this regardless to give bst support so he can rerelease the mouse with a 3310 sensor, which I will also buy.


Honestly if the FK is fine I'd go for the FK1. I hear good things from many about the KPM and my daily driver is the AVIOR, but the latter is noticeably heavier and differently ergonomically shaped. In my experience the 3310 is vastly superior to the 3090 overall, and most people don't notice this whole stupid "smoothing" crap, at least not on the FK1 for sure which has very minimal input lag.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Honestly if the FK is fine I'd go for the FK1. I hear good things from many about the KPM and my daily driver is the AVIOR, but the latter is noticeably heavier and differently ergonomically shaped. In my experience the 3310 is vastly superior to the 3090 overall, and most people don't notice this whole stupid "smoothing" crap, at least not on the FK1 for sure which has very minimal input lag.


What is the AVIOR?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> What is the AVIOR?


Mionix AVIOR 7000


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix AVIOR 7000


Ah yes I was not paying attention lol.

Have you noticed a big difference between the 3310 and the 3090?

Also, if I wanted to pass on the Huano switches that come with the FK1, what mouse do you think would be best? I am really not sure. Some on the market look good but there are not many light ambi mice out there without Huanos and a perfect sensor right now.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> Ah yes I was not paying attention lol.
> 
> Have you noticed a big difference between the 3310 and the 3090?
> 
> Also, if I wanted to pass on the Huano switches that come with the FK1, what mouse do you think would be best? I am really not sure. Some on the market look good but there are not many light ambi mice out there without Huanos and a perfect sensor right now.


The only alternative I know of if you need ambi would be the Avior. But it's not as light.

3090 and 3310 at 400 CPI feel just as responsive to me even on my 144 Hz monitor. The 3310 is much more adjustable and has lower LOD and much higher max tracking rate however.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Are there any optical MMO mice out there? I'm thinking of a Optigal Razer Naga. My Naga Epic is acting and before I order a 2012 Naga, I looked for an optical alternative, since I mostly play shooters, but use at least 5 side buttons.


----------



## narandza

Note, the mice i've used for competitive gaming were mostly generic genius mice that cost me about 5-10$ iirc.
However, in 2007 i bought my first gaming mouse, the razer krait, and my gameplay execution was boosted immensely. razer krait died in less than a year and i reverted back to generic mice.
I'm looking for a mouse that is similar physically to the 2007 krait in terms of dimensions

Code:



Code:


[*] What's your grip style?

palm for generic, claw for krait. Can adapt, a hybrid would be best i guess

Code:



Code:


[*] What's your sensitivity?

6/11 notches on windows mouse sensitivity, between 800-1200 DPI on krait. I need to go from top left corner of the screen to the bottom right corner of the screen without lifting the mouse of the mousepad, only using my wrist and slightly my forearm.

Code:



Code:


[*] What's your maximum budget?

200$

Code:



Code:


[*] Do you want additional buttons?

i would prefer not. i'm not used to pressing anything. I wouldn't want to be tabbed out of the game if my thumb hits a media button by mistake. 1 additional side button could be helpful as long as it can be programmed not to do anything when pressed or to an ingame hotkey.

Code:



Code:


[*] What games do you play?

Dota 2 competitively. mouse precision is really important to me. getting the cursor to the exact point i want in a fast manner.

Code:



Code:


[*] Do you mind about prediction?

prediction? if its like making a straight line for me, i never tried that.

Code:



Code:


[*] Other relevant information:

lightweight, optical, 128mm x 63.5 mm x 39mm were dimensions of my krait. I Prefer not to get razer product after mouse scroll on krait died quickly, and the whole mouse died pretty fast(less than a year). i tried copperback and deathadder, din't like my grip on them at all.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *narandza*
> 
> Note, the mice i've used for competitive gaming were mostly generic genius mice that cost me about 5-10$ iirc.
> However, in 2007 i bought my first gaming mouse, the razer krait, and my gameplay execution was boosted immensely. razer krait died in less than a year and i reverted back to generic mice.
> I'm looking for a mouse that is similar physically to the 2007 krait in terms of dimensions
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] What's your grip style?
> 
> palm for generic, claw for krait. Can adapt, a hybrid would be best i guess
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 6/11 notches on windows mouse sensitivity, between 800-1200 DPI on krait. I need to go from top left corner of the screen to the bottom right corner of the screen without lifting the mouse of the mousepad, only using my wrist and slightly my forearm.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 200$
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> i would prefer not. i'm not used to pressing anything. I wouldn't want to be tabbed out of the game if my thumb hits a media button by mistake. 1 additional side button could be helpful as long as it can be programmed not to do anything when pressed or to an ingame hotkey.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] What games do you play?
> 
> Dota 2 competitively. mouse precision is really important to me. getting the cursor to the exact point i want in a fast manner.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> prediction? if its like making a straight line for me, i never tried that.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*] Other relevant information:
> 
> lightweight, optical, 128mm x 63.5 mm x 39mm were dimensions of my krait. I Prefer not to get razer product after mouse scroll on krait died quickly, and the whole mouse died pretty fast(less than a year). i tried copperback and deathadder, din't like my grip on them at all.


I would have recommended the FK1, but since you play MOBA you probably don't want those switches. The G100s though could be a great fit.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Are there any optical MMO mice out there? I'm thinking of a Optigal Razer Naga. My Naga Epic is acting and before I order a 2012 Naga, I looked for an optical alternative, since I mostly play shooters, but use at least 5 side buttons.


Maybe G502 or G602 for extra buttons


----------



## BlackVenom

What's your grip style?
Fingers make a claw... rest of the hand does what it wants









What's your sensitivity?
Medium/low

What's your maximum budget?
Preferably <$60

Do you want additional buttons?
>=2 (doesn't matter if it's one on each side or two on one)

What games do you play?
CS:S (main interest), TF2, rpgs, racing.....

Do you mind about prediction?
Don't really want.

Other relevant information:
*WIRELESS* (I'm guessing this isn't ideal for gaming but I can't do wired anymore)
I've been using a Logitech M705
MMB doesn't work anymore and the 3rd extra (hidden) button on the thumb grip doesn't work in games.

EDIT: I also have an M510 that I believe is fully functional - haven't really used in a few years.

EDIT2: How are the sleeved wired mouses? Traditional rubber insulated wires are too stiff for my taste and a mini crane on my desktop isn't an option.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingers make a claw... rest of the hand does what it wants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> Medium/low
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> Preferably <$60
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> >=2 (doesn't matter if it's one on each side or two on one)
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:S (main interest), TF2, rpgs, racing.....
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't really want.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> *WIRELESS* (I'm guessing this isn't ideal for gaming but I can't do wired anymore)
> I've been using a Logitech M705
> MMB doesn't work anymore and the 3rd extra (hidden) button on the thumb grip doesn't work in games.
> 
> EDIT: I also have an M510 that I believe is fully functional - haven't really used in a few years.


Basically for wireless gaming you're stuck with the G602, if you can find it for 60 bucks.


----------



## BlackVenom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Basically for wireless gaming you're stuck with the G602, if you can find it for 60 bucks.


Thanks! Man does that thing have a ton of buttons! Any experience with it? I wish there was a shoe store for mice. I'm in the US and it's definitely easy to find even under $50. Not newegg, but that's how newegg rolls sometimes.


----------



## metal571

The G602 is really the only wireless gaming mouse worth getting because the rest of them have laser sensors and are extremely overpriced.


----------



## BlackVenom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G602 is really the only wireless gaming mouse worth getting because the rest of them have laser sensors and are extremely overpriced.


I'm definitely considering it. Out of curiosity, how noticeable is the cord on your mouse? The only wired ones I've came into contact with are cheap run of the mill mice


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*
> 
> I'm definitely considering it. Out of curiosity, how noticeable is the cord on your mouse? The only wired ones I've came into contact with are cheap run of the mill mice


On the really lightweight braided cords, barely noticeable at all


----------



## ChopChop

*What's your grip style?*
Claw
*What's your sensitivity?*
Depends on the game, i can play at low/medium/high
*What's your maximum budget?*
No limit
*Do you want additional buttons?*
At least 2 on the left side
*What games do you play?*
FPS and MOBA's
*[Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes
*Other relevant information:*
I have seen some reviews about the Mionix avior 7000, Corsair m45, SS Rival,Logitech g502 . I dont like the rival because I think the mionix is better, and I dont like the g502 because I think it has soooo much buttons. I just want the best optical gaming mouse on the market. I know the g502 has the best sensor, but I really dont like its shape.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChopChop*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Depends on the game, i can play at low/medium/high
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> No limit
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> At least 2 on the left side
> *What games do you play?*
> FPS and MOBA's
> *[Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes
> *Other relevant information:*
> I have seen some reviews about the Mionix avior 7000, Corsair m45, SS Rival,Logitech g502 . I dont like the rival because I think the mionix is better, and I dont like the g502 because I think it has soooo much buttons. I just want the best optical gaming mouse on the market. I know the g502 has the best sensor, but I really dont like its shape.


Then go with the Avior, I'd say it's good for claw


----------



## ChopChop

I like the avior, and I also saw here a review of the Zowie FK1. How do u think it compares to the avior ? Are they pretty much the same thing ?
I come from a G9x (the most comfortable mouse I ever used) and I think the corsair m45 is the closes to it (in terms of shape), so I am little bit worried if im gonna like the shapes of zowie or avior.
If logitech made a G9x with a 3310 optical sensor I'd be all over it


----------



## BlackVenom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> On the really lightweight braided cords, barely noticeable at all


Ah. I'm going to look and see what I have on hand for springs and if I can't design something not noticeable under the monitor stand to pull the cord back. If I can't I'll probably go with the recommendation. Idk If I could do w/o wireless. The mat I use is ~16"x14" and I use most of it plus depending on how I'm sitting my mouse may be completely sideways. Thanks!

It'll be a minute before I buy so I am still open to recommendations.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*
> 
> Ah. I'm going to look and see what I have on hand for springs and if I can't design something not noticeable under the monitor stand to pull the cord back I'll probably go with the recommendation. The mat I use is ~16"x14" and I use most of it plus depending on how I'm sitting my mouse may be completely sideways. Thanks!
> 
> It'll be a minute before I buy so I am still open to recommendations.


For claw I would look at the FK1 and Avior 7000 if you don't mind wired at all


----------



## gogusrl

What's your grip style?
palm
What's your sensitivity?
medium
What's your maximum budget?
80$
Do you want additional buttons?
1 on the left side
What games do you play?
FPS/MMO/RPG
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other stuff
low weight, nice scroll wheel

I've used a Logitech G9(non-x with small grip) for 5-6 years and from my pov it was the perfect mouse. After reading some of these threads over the last few days I'm overloaded with choices so I need some suggestions.

To be honest, considering the amount of games I play these days I'd just get another g9/g9x but they're 150$ on ebay.

Also I'm looking for a wireless notebook mouse with low weight (working with 1 battery is a must),1 left side button, "clicky" scroll wheel (no hyperscrolling crap) around the size of the Logitech T400 / CM Xornet.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gogusrl*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> medium
> What's your maximum budget?
> 80$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 1 on the left side
> What games do you play?
> FPS/MMO/RPG
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> Other stuff
> low weight, nice scroll wheel
> 
> I've used a Logitech G9(non-x with small grip) for 5-6 years and from my pov it was the perfect mouse. After reading some of these threads over the last few days I'm overloaded with choices so I need some suggestions.
> 
> To be honest, considering the amount of games I play these days I'd just get another g9/g9x but they're 150$ on ebay.
> 
> Also I'm looking for a wireless notebook mouse with low weight (working with 1 battery is a must),1 left side button, "clicky" scroll wheel (no hyperscrolling crap) around the size of the Logitech T400 / CM Xornet.


Naos 7000, SteelSeries Rival. The former is more expensive and better built.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Rival


I got a Steelseries Rival recently based on its superior sensor and I could never use it as a primary mouse mainly because of the lack of more than 2 extra buttons so I shipped it to a secondary pc because of that. Nice grip though because of the rubber on the sides. Ah, and the microswitches do not feel as high quality.

I'm too used to the superiority of the G700's extra buttons, microswitches quality and the bonus use as a remote control. I even got it a flexible usb data cable.


----------



## Dsfyu

What's your grip style?
Pistol grip.
What's your sensitivity?
Doesn't matter
What's your maximum budget?
I have no idea what I'm looking to pay right now.
Do you want additional buttons?
Preferred but not required.
What games do you play?
A mix of different things. The mouse will mostly be used to navigate a several monitor (nine) setup while working on various things.
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know.
Other relevant information:
I'm currently using the Zalman FG1000 mouse as seen here. It's a nice mouse but the hand grip fell off shortly after I got the mouse and a year later the mouse functionality is getting a little spotty due to a faulty cable. I'm looking for something more or less in the same type of mouse but haven't seen many similar mice.


----------



## hotstreak88

*What's your grip style?*
Palm (sometimes don't rest whole palm on mouse though)
*What's your sensitivity?*
Medium
*What's your maximum budget?*
around $50
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Don't really use those buttons
*What games do you play?*
Unreal Tournament, Quake Live
*[Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes
*Other relevant information:*
I've owned a razer diamondback 3g for last 5-6 years. It's a real solid feel for me for my grip and the weight of it. Also seems like the mouse clicking is real responsive. But I'm thinking there has to be a better mouse out there now. I want a mouse that clicks really fast, maybe has high quality microswitches, and real sensitive mouse buttons and bigger mouse feet than what I have. Also want the weight to be similar to the razer diamondback and also easy to palm grip, as I have smaller hands. I notice a lot of people like the logitech g400's for gaming. But there's also the steelseries rival and sensei mouses. But I think I heard the steelseries might not use the faster microswitches so I don't know if I'd like that.


----------



## jorgex41

Does anyone know the native dpi of the avior and the zowie fk1 ?

I read that there are people that dont like the avior because of the switches. I am no expert on this so I would like someone to explain what is the difference between the switches used on the avior and on the fk1


----------



## Sencha

What's your grip style?
Plams great


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotstreak88*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm (sometimes don't rest whole palm on mouse though)
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Medium
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> around $50
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Don't really use those buttons
> *What games do you play?*
> Unreal Tournament, Quake Live
> *[Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes
> *Other relevant information:*
> I've owned a razer diamondback 3g for last 5-6 years. It's a real solid feel for me for my grip and the weight of it. Also seems like the mouse clicking is real responsive. But I'm thinking there has to be a better mouse out there now. I want a mouse that clicks really fast, maybe has high quality microswitches, and real sensitive mouse buttons and bigger mouse feet than what I have. Also want the weight to be similar to the razer diamondback and also easy to palm grip, as I have smaller hands. I notice a lot of people like the logitech g400's for gaming. But there's also the steelseries rival and sensei mouses. But I think I heard the steelseries might not use the faster microswitches so I don't know if I'd like that.


You could like Roccat Kone Pure Military.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> Does anyone know the native dpi of the avior and the zowie fk1 ?
> 
> I read that there are people that dont like the avior because of the switches. I am no expert on this so I would like someone to explain what is the difference between the switches used on the avior and on the fk1


All steps are native from 50-5000 for both of those mice since they both use the same sensor. The Avior has light switches that are Omrons and the FK1 has more firm switches called Huanos. The latter is really only for FPS gamers since people who play other games who do a lot of spam clicking will need the lighter Omrons. Hopefully this clears this up.


----------



## f0rld

I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested both 1.1a and sensei but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested both 1.1a and sensei but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


What is it that you like about the AM shape? Have you tried an FK and liked the AM shape better?


----------



## jorgex41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> All steps are native from 50-5000 for both of those mice since they both use the same sensor. The Avior has light switches that are Omrons and the FK1 has more firm switches called Huanos. The latter is really only for FPS gamers since people who play other games who do a lot of spam clicking will need the lighter Omrons. Hopefully this clears this up.


Thx for the answer. I think I wil buy the avior. Now, I use a SS 4hd, should I keep using it with the avior or should I switch my mousepad ? I also have an Ozone Gound level


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What is it that you like about the AM shape? Have you tried an FK and liked the AM shape better?


The fact that it fits my hand incredibly well. These sidebuttons aren't on my fingers' way (unlike sensei). I have tried FK and i liked a lot more AM's shape.


----------



## hotstreak88

Can anyone tell me which mice have the fastest click times? My razer diamondback 3g clicks really fast. I heard some zowie mouses have huano click switches which might make clicking slower. And also heard some steelseries mice use the same switches. Anyone know which mouses click the fastest and which click slowest? I'm looking a real sensitive click button.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> Thx for the answer. I think I wil buy the avior. Now, I use a SS 4hd, should I keep using it with the avior or should I switch my mousepad ? I also have an Ozone Gound level


I would switch to cloth. Almost any cloth pad will do but the current Mionix Sargas pads aren't the greatest in the world.


----------



## jorgex41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I would switch to cloth. Almost any cloth pad will do but the current Mionix Sargas pads aren't the greatest in the world.


I know that the Ozone Level isnt that good either. Which mousepad would u recommend


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> I know that the Ozone Level isnt that good either. Which mousepad would u recommend


What is your size preference and do you want a faster or a controlled pad


----------



## jorgex41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What is your size preference and do you want a faster or a controlled pad


For size I would like it to be a bit bigger than my 4hd. I dont need it to be huge, but a bit bigger wouldnt hurt. I think I prefer a faster one since I am used to the 4hd and I like how fast it is.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> For size I would like it to be a bit bigger than my 4hd. I dont need it to be huge, but a bit bigger wouldnt hurt. I think I prefer a faster one since I am used to the 4hd and I like how fast it is.


Give the Zowie G-TF Speed a shot. Very very fast hybrid cloth/hard mat


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Give the Zowie G-TF Speed a shot. Very very fast hybrid cloth/hard mat


Very hard mat to flatten out, and it doesn't stick on your desk very well :/

I have the rough version though, very little friction (I think it's slightly less than the speed ver)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Very hard mat to flatten out, and it doesn't stick on your desk very well :/
> 
> I have the rough version though, very little friction (I think it's slightly less than the speed ver)


Mine works perfectly fine, shrug


----------



## bond10

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
3.8 (400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no accel, 10.7cm = 360)

What's your maximum budget?
$70

Do you want additional buttons?
5 total buttons at least (mouse 1, mouse 2, mouse 3, and 1 or 2 thumb buttons)

What games do you play?
CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?
No

Other relevant information:
19 inches top of middle finger to base of hand.
Dry hands (I can't grip the deathadder black)

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
LOD a bit higher than zowie EC1 evo
Glossy finish or whatever grips good for dry hands


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 3.8 (400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no accel, 10.7cm = 360)
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $70
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 5 total buttons at least (mouse 1, mouse 2, mouse 3, and 1 or 2 thumb buttons)
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 19 inches top of middle finger to base of hand.
> Dry hands (I can't grip the deathadder black)
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> LOD a bit higher than zowie EC1 evo
> Glossy finish or whatever grips good for dry hands


IE3.0


----------



## f0rld

I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested 1.1a, sensei, kana, kinzu and zowie FK but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


----------



## jorgex41

So I did a little research. And as I expcted the mousepads in my country (Portugal) are really expensive, specially the zowie mousepads. Here are some mousepads I liked, ofc u can give ur opinion on more since I am really opened to suggestions.

*Razer Goliathus Standard Control Edition*-23
*Razer Goliathus speed edition*-23 euros
*Puretrak talent*-26 euros
*Zowie G-TF Speed Edition*-27 euros

I put the razer goliathus speed and control version because takasta says that the control edition is actually faster and the speed edition is slower. Go check his review on youtube of the razer goliathus, ofc I dont know if that is only his opinion or if its actually a fact.
I also found out that a lot of people love the puretrak talent, and others completely hate it, but I cant get it in my country and I will need to ship it, so it will cost me 26 euros.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> So I did a little research. And as I expcted the mousepads in my country (Portugal) are really expensive, specially the zowie mousepads. Here are some mousepads I liked, ofc u can give ur opinion on more since I am really opened to suggestions.
> 
> *Razer Goliathus Standard Control Edition*-23
> *Razer Goliathus speed edition*-23 euros
> *Puretrak talent*-26 euros
> *Zowie G-TF Speed Edition*-27 euros
> 
> I put the razer goliathus speed and control version because takasta says that the control edition is actually faster and the speed edition is slower. Go check his review on youtube of the razer goliathus, ofc I dont know if that is only his opinion or if its actually a fact.
> I also found out that a lot of people love the puretrak talent, and others completely hate it, but I cant get it in my country and I will need to ship it, so it will cost me 26 euros.


Yep. "Gaming" mousepads are WAY overpriced. Try to look in local electronics stores for large mousepads. In the US they have an $8 generic pad that's sold in stores, but I'm told that it's not sold in Europe, but hopefully there is something similar there.

Quote:


> Zowie G-TF Speed


$30 for this is just stupid.

BST is reportedly releasing a large mouse pad for under 10 euros, but there's been a ton of delays so there's no telling when/if it'll be released.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 3.8 (400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no accel, 10.7cm = 360)
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $70
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 5 total buttons at least (mouse 1, mouse 2, mouse 3, and 1 or 2 thumb buttons)
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 19 inches top of middle finger to base of hand.
> Dry hands (I can't grip the deathadder black)
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> LOD a bit higher than zowie EC1 evo
> Glossy finish or whatever grips good for dry hands


3.8 sens isn't 10.7cm/360...

1.5 sens is 70cm/360
1.9 sens is 54cm/360
2.4 sens in CS is 42cm/360.
3.6 sens is 28cm/360.
4.2 sens is 24cm/360.

http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

Oh, you just mistyped cm rather than in.

Since you want ambidextrous I'd recommend the IE 1.1 over the 3.0. This site has a lot of choices.

This is some stuff you should know about the Intellimice.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> So I did a little research. And as I expcted the mousepads in my country (Portugal) are really expensive, specially the zowie mousepads. Here are some mousepads I liked, ofc u can give ur opinion on more since I am really opened to suggestions.
> 
> *Razer Goliathus Standard Control Edition*-23
> *Razer Goliathus speed edition*-23 euros
> *Puretrak talent*-26 euros
> *Zowie G-TF Speed Edition*-27 euros
> 
> I put the razer goliathus speed and control version because takasta says that the control edition is actually faster and the speed edition is slower. Go check his review on youtube of the razer goliathus, ofc I dont know if that is only his opinion or if its actually a fact.
> I also found out that a lot of people love the puretrak talent, and others completely hate it, but I cant get it in my country and I will need to ship it, so it will cost me 26 euros.


QCK series.

I think it's the most widely available "gaming" mousepad.

Has a lot of friction, but smooth glide.


----------



## jorgex41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> QCK series.
> 
> I think it's the most widely available "gaming" mousepad.
> 
> Has a lot of friction, but smooth glide.


Availability is not the real problem. Price is. But oh well there is nothing i can do. The QCK+ is actually cheaper than the others, its around 16 euros, but I really want something faster. Like just a bit slower than the 4hd.

BTW does anyone approve what takasta said about the Goliathus ?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> Availability is not the real problem. Price is. But oh well there is nothing i can do. The QCK+ is actually cheaper than the others, its around 16 euros, but I really want something faster. Like just a bit slower than the 4hd.
> 
> BTW does anyone approve what takasta said about the Goliathus ?


Yes, the smoother a mousepad gets (more surface contacts the feet) the higher friction you get - vice versa with a rough mousepad.

The 2014 version of goliathus feels really cheap though (I've tried for a while, both the Speed/Control ed)


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Very hard mat to flatten out, and it doesn't stick on your desk very well :/
> 
> I have the rough version though, very little friction (I think it's slightly less than the speed ver)


Had the G-TF Speed for a while as well. It sticked pretty good to my desk and was as flat as you could call something flat. Maybe "Rough" version is different? I don't know, never had/tried it.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> So I did a little research. And as I expcted the mousepads in my country (Portugal) are really expensive, specially the zowie mousepads. Here are some mousepads I liked, ofc u can give ur opinion on more since I am really opened to suggestions.
> 
> *Razer Goliathus Standard Control Edition*-23
> *Razer Goliathus speed edition*-23 euros
> *Puretrak talent*-26 euros
> *Zowie G-TF Speed Edition*-27 euros
> 
> I put the razer goliathus speed and control version because takasta says that the control edition is actually faster and the speed edition is slower. Go check his review on youtube of the razer goliathus, ofc I dont know if that is only his opinion or if its actually a fact.
> I also found out that a lot of people love the puretrak talent, and others completely hate it, but I cant get it in my country and I will need to ship it, so it will cost me 26 euros.


Talent is a lot slower than all the others you mentioned. It's not like 4HD shouldn't work with an optical mouse at all. Modern sensors should do that anyway. I had a Kone Pure Optical that has an older sensor than Avior 7K. I found it to work pretty well on 9HD. If you're using a higher sens, plastic is more comfortable anyway. If Avior 7K can't handle hard mats very well, it sounds like sensor implementation isn't the best. I don't know, I never had that mouse and never will since its shape looks weirder than a G9(x) (to me at least).


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Had the G-TF Speed for a while as well. It sticked pretty good to my desk and was as flat as you could call something flat. Maybe "Rough" version is different? I don't know, never had/tried it.


I actually have the Speed ver still in the box, the rough seems to have a looser weave for the surface to minimalize friction(?)

Haven't tried that one, I think it will have the same problems with my G-TF(R) though.

The problem with the rubber backing is that it only grips your table (mine is laminated wood) if you apply pressure on the mat - if you do not put pressure on the pad, it doesn't stick very well.


----------



## hza

That's my desk. I can't say, if I put a lot of presure on it, but probably not too much. It's like 2 years ago and I can't remember perfectly about that, but I know it didn't move at all except when I moved it myself.


----------



## f0rld

I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested 1.1a, sensei, kana, kinzu and zowie FK but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


----------



## metal571

A couple of things, yes I actually second Max on this one, you definitely want one of the Intellimice if that's really your CS sens, to the guy who asked about a palm grip ambi mouse with that specific sens in that specific game. This is a perfect time where the Intellimice would shine.

I would just get a QcK+ and call it a day, at least over here in the USA it's the cheapest brand name pad I know of.

Also it's not an error in the Avior 7k that causes high LOD on many hard mats...I've had the same issue on a Rival as well. I'm pretty sure it is just a 3310 quirk.


----------



## hza

High senser won't bother about LOD too much.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> High senser won't bother about LOD too much.


True, something to keep in mind.


----------



## jorgex41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Yes, the smoother a mousepad gets (more surface contacts the feet) the higher friction you get - vice versa with a rough mousepad.
> 
> The 2014 version of goliathus feels really cheap though (I've tried for a while, both the Speed/Control ed)


Like the material feels cheap ?

Thx everyone for the answers, maybe I will try it with the 4hd and see how it behaves, if I dont like it I will then buy a new mousepad.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorgex41*
> 
> Like the material feels cheap ?
> 
> Thx everyone for the answers, maybe I will try it with the 4hd and see how it behaves, if I dont like it I will then buy a new mousepad.


Yes feels cheap and the edges are extremely rough. I think it would not last long if you use it to game regularly.


----------



## gzyzwc

What's your grip style?
Palm (want pinky rest)
What's your sensitivity?
I like a very sesitive mouse
What's your maximum budget?
250$
Do you want additional buttons?
5 is plenty but I am not opposed to more
What games do you play?
WoW, LoL, Diablo 3
Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer not to have it
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I owned a Cata Steelseries wow mouse and the size shape was the BEST mouse I ever had, but it broke and they dont sell them anymore I want one for the comfort of a large had first and foremost, and I don't want to drag my pinky across the mouse pad. My hand's c ramp up so a larger mouse is better.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gzyzwc*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm (want pinky rest)
> What's your sensitivity?
> I like a very sesitive mouse
> What's your maximum budget?
> 250$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 5 is plenty but I am not opposed to more
> What games do you play?
> WoW, LoL, Diablo 3
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I would prefer not to have it
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I owned a Cata Steelseries wow mouse and the size shape was the BEST mouse I ever had, but it broke and they dont sell them anymore I want one for the comfort of a large had first and foremost, and I don't want to drag my pinky across the mouse pad. My hand's c ramp up so a larger mouse is better.


What do you mean they don't sell them anymore?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SteelSeries-Cataclysm-Mouse-BRAND-NEW-World-of-Warcraft-PN62100-PC-Computer-Mice-/231273861727?pt=Mice&hash=item35d8ff125f#shpCntId

(I'm assuming you live in the US)


----------



## xFaNaTiix

What's your grip style?
palm/fingertip grip (more palm)
What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no accel, CS:GO: 2.2
What's your maximum budget?
65€
Do you want additional buttons?
at least two
What games do you play?
mostly shooters (Counter Strike, Battlefield)
Do you mind about prediction?
no
Other relevant information:
Maybe a good coating for a better grip. My current mouse is a DA 2013 and my previous a DA 3.5G. I really like the shape, weight and size of the deathadder 2013. Now I want a mouse with a perfect sensor at 400dpi [500hz] that lives longer than my DA's (-> very good build quality), because the mouse buttons and wheel are doing double/triple clicks. So I want a good mouse wheel too and the mouse should be wired. I'm on win8.1 x64. My mousepad is a QCK+ and I'm righthanded.
Maybe a zowie mouse?


----------



## hotstreak88

*What's your grip style?*
been using claw, thinking of trying palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
low (12 inches to do a 360)
*What's your maximum budget?*
80$
*Do you want additional buttons?*
1 on the left side maybe
*What games do you play?*
FPS, CS:GO and Unreal Tournament
*Do you mind about prediction?*
yes
*Other stuff*
I've used a razer diamondback for years and really liked the fast clicking and light weight. But sometimes I think a more ergonomic mouse would be better for more control. So looking for a mouse with support for the thumb and/or pinky, maybe even a weight system. So far I like the logitech g400, the corsair m40 or m45, roccat kone, and mionix naos 7000. Leaning towards g400 since it's more proven and popular, but the mionix naos has some crazy good ergonomics on the pinky side. I don't really like the steelseries mice or the zowie since they don't have good side grooves at all.

On a different note though, what do you guys think of a mouse like this: Whirlwind X. Some of these non mainstream mouse look pretty good. Like how do you think some of these mouse compare to the more popular ones?

P.S. I should mention I have small hands.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotstreak88*
> 
> I've used a razer diamondback for years and really liked the fast clicking and light weight. But sometimes I think a more ergonomic mouse would be better for more control. So looking for a mouse with support for the thumb and/or pinky, maybe even a weight system. So far I like the logitech g400, the corsair m40 or m45, roccat kone, and mionix naos 7000. Leaning towards g400 since it's more proven and popular, but the mionix naos has some crazy good ergonomics on the pinky side. I don't really like the steelseries mice or the zowie since they don't have good side grooves at all.
> 
> On a different note though, what do you guys think of a mouse like this: Whirlwind X. Some of these non mainstream mouse look pretty good. Like how do you think some of these mouse compare to the more popular ones?
> 
> P.S. I should mention I have small hands.


I bought a no name mouse with the same PAW-3305 sensor and nothing but five star reviews, and it was unplayably bad. I'd stay away.

The G400 and Mionix are good bets out of what you mentioned. Haven't heard much praise for the corsair mice.


----------



## hotstreak88

Hmmm the mionix is really expensive though. Probably go with logitech. But here's my dilemna. There's also the logitech g500 and g500s. I think they both have lasers but the 500's have a weight system. Does the weight system matter that much? I kinda liked the idea of experimenting with different weights to increase accuracy. Sometimes extra weight can help. Thinking of buying a qck pad so maybe i won't need any extra drag.


----------



## hza

Weights are just a nice-to-have. G400s or Savu would be the best compromise for you, at least the cheapest options.


----------



## JulioCesarSF

What is the best mice with the shape of SS Rival with the best sensor? Rival have the best shape for me, but the sensor ins't the best.








I use 400~600 dpi.


----------



## ChevChelios

RIval has the 2-nd best sensor on the market


----------



## hotstreak88

I decided to buy the razer deathadder as last minute the mionix naos 7000 was starting to scare me with how big it is. I'm probably also going to buy the logitech g400. Anyone have a list of palm mouses? There is mionix naos 7000, razer deathadder, logitech g400/500 series etc, corsair m40/m45, steelseries rival and sensei, and maybe the roccat zone? After that I'm kinda drawing a blank. Zowie mouses seem to be more on the smaller side.

Btw my hand is 7 and 1/4" from the crease of my wrist to the top of my middle finger. What I find interesting is I was able to get a decent grip on my logitech m305 mouse which is super small. I grip it in a way where it starts from 2 inches from my wrist crease to the tips of my fingers. It also has a nice thumb grove. I feel like I get a better grip of it than I do my razer diamondback. Was just looking at the cm storm spawn. That mouse has similar ergonomics of the mionix naos 7000 but smaller.

Anyone have a good suggestion to try out of the mionix naos 7000,corsair m40, steelseries rival and the roccat zone? Maybe I can try one of those out and return it if I don't like it. And also like I said earlier, if anyone knows some more palm grip mouses, please list them. I'm sure the deathadder and g400 will be good but I just feel like I should test at least one more palm grip mouse.

The roccat zone has a nice thumb groove as does the corsair m40 but I don't think either of them have the nice pinky/ring finger rest. But does that really matter that much?


----------



## hza

Roccat zone=Roccat Kone? However, Kone Pure Military/Optical is smaller than Kone XTD (Optical). Savu is a great mouse as well, but its shape is something you'll totally love or hate. I can't know what your hand suits or not. Kone Pure Military is more expensive, but personally I found the shape of Kone Pure Optical more comfortable than Savu's even though they're similar. KPM has newer sensor (3310) while KPO has older one (3090). Also KPM should be available in 3 different colours. On german Amazon and other german/austrian shops I can find just 2 of them for whatever reason. I don't know, if it's the same for whole Europe/World(?) atm.


----------



## hotstreak88

thx hza, i'll definitely do more research on that one. It's really hard to simulate how a mouse will feel lol. I was looking at the width of the naos and it was like 85mm which is like 3.3 inches. And I was trying to imagine opening my hands that wide and felt like it might be somewhat of a stretch than what I'm used to. After holding the logitech m305 in my hand and gripping it with a half palm, it got thinking. Like the reason I can do that with this mouse is because the length is only like a little over 3 inches. So maybe a mouse like the razer abyssus or razer salmosa or cm storm can still give you a palm grip although a half palm grip. So now I wonder if maybe half palm could be better than the full palm grip. I know there are some ppl who really love the razer abyssus.

The other thing is about the need for a pinky groove. So might still checkout some smaller mice (cm storm etc) and mouses that only have a thumb groove and no pinky groove (roccat kone etc). I just wish I understood why so many ppl like the zowie mice when it seems like none of them have a thumb grove and are more ambidextrous mice.


----------



## PUKED

It's not just palm mice, but this is a good list.

Also the Savu's more of a claw grip mouse imo, it's pretty small.

edit: check out ESR too.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> What is the best mice with the shape of SS Rival with the best sensor? Rival have the best shape for me, but the sensor ins't the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use 400~600 dpi.


What's wrong with the sensor?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xFaNaTiix*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm/fingertip grip (more palm)
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no accel, CS:GO: 2.2
> What's your maximum budget?
> 65€
> Do you want additional buttons?
> at least two
> What games do you play?
> mostly shooters (Counter Strike, Battlefield)
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no
> Other relevant information:
> Maybe a good coating for a better grip. My current mouse is a DA 2013 and my previous a DA 3.5G. I really like the shape, weight and size of the deathadder 2013. Now I want a mouse with a perfect sensor at 400dpi [500hz] that lives longer than my DA's (-> very good build quality), because the mouse buttons and wheel are doing double/triple clicks. So I want a good mouse wheel too and the mouse should be wired. I'm on win8.1 x64. My mousepad is a QCK+ and I'm righthanded.
> Maybe a zowie mouse?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotstreak88*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> been using claw, thinking of trying palm
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> low (12 inches to do a 360)
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 80$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 1 on the left side maybe
> *What games do you play?*
> FPS, CS:GO and Unreal Tournament
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> yes
> *Other stuff*
> I've used a razer diamondback for years and really liked the fast clicking and light weight. But sometimes I think a more ergonomic mouse would be better for more control. So looking for a mouse with support for the thumb and/or pinky, maybe even a weight system. So far I like the logitech g400, the corsair m40 or m45, roccat kone, and mionix naos 7000. Leaning towards g400 since it's more proven and popular, but the mionix naos has some crazy good ergonomics on the pinky side. I don't really like the steelseries mice or the zowie since they don't have good side grooves at all.
> 
> On a different note though, what do you guys think of a mouse like this: Whirlwind X. Some of these non mainstream mouse look pretty good. Like how do you think some of these mouse compare to the more popular ones?
> 
> P.S. I should mention I have small hands.


Both of you should read this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> What is the best mice with the shape of SS Rival with the best sensor? Rival have the best shape for me, but the sensor ins't the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use 400~600 dpi.


IE 3.0, Zowie EC1 evo, Deathadder, g400, and KPM all have similar shapes. Check my previous link for more info.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> RIval has the 2-nd best sensor on the market


In some ways. Not all of which are important to everyone.


----------



## JulioCesarSF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What's wrong with the sensor?


I play a lot, like 10 hours per day. And it already is broken. =/ Sometimes spin to the floor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Both of you should read this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> IE 3.0, Zowie EC1 evo, Deathadder, g400, and KPM all have similar shapes. Check my previous link for more info.
> In some ways. Not all of which are important to everyone.


Ty! I will try zowie.

What is KPM?









edit: Nice link, ty. I use 400 ~600 dpi (depends the game engine) sens 1 + acell 0.8 (quake player here)


----------



## hza

Kone Pure Military


----------



## Qu1ckset

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip Grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*1800DPI*
What's your maximum budget?
*No Limit*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Usable side buttons*
What games do you play?
*Mainly FPS*
Do you mind about prediction?
*N/A*
Other relevant information:
*Hugely prefer Optical*
Ok guys little bit of background for the longest time I've been gaming with Deathadder 3.5G sensor wise loved it but just thought it was time for a new mouse picked up the 2013 Deathadder and the Steelseries Rival , hated the 2013 DA and returned it and kept the Rival.

Rival is really comfy, good grip and has perfect sensor , my issue with all three of the mice listed is it's always to far a reach or an awkward stretch to reach the first side buttons on these mice closest to the front with my fingertip grip. Is there a better mouse for finger tip grip so I can reach the side buttons easier ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip Grip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *1800DPI*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *No Limit*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Usable side buttons*
> What games do you play?
> *Mainly FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *N/A*
> Other relevant information:
> *Hugely prefer Optical*
> Ok guys little bit of background for the longest time I've been gaming with Deathadder 3.5G sensor wise loved it but just thought it was time for a new mouse picked up the 2013 Deathadder and the Steelseries Rival , hated the 2013 DA and returned it and kept the Rival.
> 
> Rival is really comfy, good grip and has perfect sensor , my issue with all three of the mice listed is it's always to far a reach or an awkward stretch to reach the first side buttons on these mice closest to the front with my fingertip grip. Is there a better mouse for finger tip grip so I can reach the side buttons easier ?


Mionix Avior 7000


----------



## Wphantom

Hello, Im looking for a mousepad with some key aspects:

1. it has to be big, qck+ style, arround 40cmx30cm.

2. it has to be VERY fast, low static friction.

3. it has to be durable, rugged, well built, no fraying edges or scratched mouse feet.

Im going to use it with a 3310 mouse, roccat kone military maybe. Im currently using a qck+ and it is well built and big, but it is too slow for me, theres too much static friction.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Hello, Im looking for a mousepad with some key aspects:
> 
> 1. it has to be big, qck+ style, arround 40cmx30cm.
> 
> 2. it has to be VERY fast, low static friction.
> 
> 3. it has to be durable, rugged, well built, no fraying edges or scratched mouse feet.
> 
> Im going to use it with a 3310 mouse, roccat kone military maybe. Im currently using a qck+ and it is well built and big, but it is too slow for me, theres too much static friction.


Xtracpads ripper XXL maybe? It's twice as long compared to the QCK+ though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Hello, Im looking for a mousepad with some key aspects:
> 
> 1. it has to be big, qck+ style, arround 40cmx30cm.
> 
> 2. it has to be VERY fast, low static friction.
> 
> 3. it has to be durable, rugged, well built, no fraying edges or scratched mouse feet.
> 
> Im going to use it with a 3310 mouse, roccat kone military maybe. Im currently using a qck+ and it is well built and big, but it is too slow for me, theres too much static friction.


If you're in the US you could try the supermat. It's about the same size as the qck+, it has less friction and doesn't increase friction over time like the qck does. It's been very durable for me. I've had it over 5 years and washed it multiple times and it's as good as new.

I don't know how low friction you want though. My ideal is enough to provide stopping power but not enough to hinder small movements. The supermat does this for me. But cloth pads typically have more friction than hardpads.

I've used other pads like the Talent that are more slippery but I used multiple ones and they all felt like they had little dips in the pad that would cause my mouse to tilt sometimes which was really annoying.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If you're in the US you could try the supermat. It's about the same size as the qck+, it has less friction and doesn't increase friction over time like the qck does. It's been very durable for me. I've had it over 5 years and washed it multiple times and it's as good as new.


Unfortunately they lowered the quality of that pad. The backing is now this super soft gummy foam instead of the rubber backing that they once used. The cloth might be different as well. They completely ruined the glide.


----------



## Wphantom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Xtracpads ripper XXL maybe? It's twice as long compared to the QCK+ though.


is it really faster than the qck+?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Unfortunately they lowered the quality of that pad. The backing is now this super soft gummy foam instead of the rubber backing that they once used. The cloth might be different as well. They completely ruined the glide.


Hmm... did you get yours from Amazon or a local store? How recent was the change?

The ones I've seen at Fry's look identical to the one I bought years ago from Staples.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Hello, Im looking for a mousepad with some key aspects:
> 
> 1. it has to be big, qck+ style, arround 40cmx30cm.
> 
> 2. it has to be VERY fast, low static friction.
> 
> 3. it has to be durable, rugged, well built, no fraying edges or scratched mouse feet.
> 
> Im going to use it with a 3310 mouse, roccat kone military maybe. Im currently using a qck+ and it is well built and big, but it is too slow for me, theres too much static friction.


Puretrak Talent


----------



## hza

Zowie G-TF Speed or Razer Goliathus are, but I heard latest Goliathus (the whole green'ish ones) aren't that good quality-wise anymore (had the Alpha Speed Fragged Edition). G-TF Speed and Goliathus were way faster than Talent. Now I'm using hardpads which are even faster than that because I raised my sensitivity in general, so, I don't need the extra space from large cloth pads anymore.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Hmm... did you get yours from Amazon or a local store? How recent was the change?
> 
> The ones I've seen at Fry's look identical to the one I bought years ago from Staples.


Both were purchased from Amazon and fulfilled by Amazon through the same seller.

June 1st 2012 = Great for the $9

December 3rd 2013 = Piece of crap that I wouldn't use even if it was free.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> is it really faster than the qck+?


Mine should arrive around 2-3 days, I'll let you know.


----------



## willll162904

Recommend me a mouse.

What's your grip style? pretty claw, not super claw, more of a hybrid.
What's your sensitivity? 1530 DPI
What's your maximum budget? Whatever
Do you want additional buttons? 2 on each side is good
What games do you play? Smite competitively, fps, moba
Do you mind about prediction? Not really
Other relevant information: I have a sensei raw that i love the shape of but want to move on. Love ambidextrous shape


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willll162904*
> 
> Recommend me a mouse.
> 
> What's your grip style? pretty claw, not super claw, more of a hybrid.
> What's your sensitivity? 1530 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? Whatever
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 on each side is good
> What games do you play? Smite competitively, fps, moba
> Do you mind about prediction? Not really
> Other relevant information: I have a sensei raw that i love the shape of but want to move on. Love ambidextrous shape


Mionix Avior 7000 sounds perfect for you. The FK1 wouldn't have enough CPI steps. I also came from a Sensei but really wanted a much better sensor in an ambi shell.


----------



## catbuster

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *1800 feels ok*
What's your maximum budget? *100 euro, more if i like it







*
Do you want additional buttons? *2 on the side like on razer DA*
What games do you play? *cs 1.6., some moba, tera online*
Do you mind about prediction? *no*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: *well my razer DA 1800 right click started to double click time to time, so i am looking for new right handed mouse. i was looking at razer DA 2013, but i dont like green and dat rubber for thumb







*


----------



## JulioCesarSF

I know this a bit strange, but the best shape mouse ever for me was the 4Tech SWW-35. It's a old mouse (ball track) but i can't find a new one with this shape.









http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=9&scid=9&id=33

Anyone know a mouse with this shape?









It says

Product Dimension
Mouse: 4.9L x 2.7W x 1.5H in.

My aim was perfect in cs 1.5, sens 1 with this old mouse, and with new one mouses, i just can't get it, idk if my hand is bigger now or w/e, i just want to be able to play tournaments again..


----------



## dashaman

Originally Posted by F u r u y a

What's your grip style? Fingertip Grip - Currently using the Naga
What's your sensitivity? 1800
What's your maximum budget? Nein
Do you want additional buttons? That is a plus
What games do you play? Dota 2, some MMORPGS (right now nothing), Street Fighter (irrelevant for a mouse), Most FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Explain?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I was looking at the Logitech G402 and also the Logitech 502. Not sure......


----------



## otanan

Made an account for this website just for this thread








Really looking for some help here.

-What's your grip style?
Claw, but open-minded to changing it as I've been recommended to trying palm for a game called Osu!

-What's your sensitivity?
1000-1200, was using a Microsoft 2000 (no DPI changing that I know of) for 3 years

-What's your maximum budget?
$200, hell, I'm willing to invest even that if you guys can help me out.

-Do you want additional buttons?
Not a huge deal, currently have 2 extra macros (using Razer Mamba) and they're nice, but more or less is still welcome

-What games do you play?
Really play anything, from Osu!, to Planetary Annihilation, to Unturned, to Unity, etc etc. (Add me on Steam or look for yourself: Otanan)
Don't really play anything competitively though.

-Do you mind about prediction?
Not that I know, I don't believe I've ever used it.

-Other relevant information:
Currently using a Razer Mamba as aforementioned, love the macros, although the Mouse1 & 2 seem a little sensitive, not a huge deal.
Currently my biggest gripe with it, is it Might have lag, not sure, and worst of all, the software freezes, and is slow to change profiles with exe detection.

-Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Not required but welcome: matte, wireless, long battery life
Practically required: The main reason I want a new mouse, or a better one is profile changing, I want a mouse that detects my program and changes profiles seamlessly and quickly. I'd have to wait 30 seconds or more for the Synapse 2.0 to detect anything, and that's a huge turn-off.
Also, love the clicky scroll wheel, like where scrolling it clicks rather than free-scroll, but the option to turn that on & off in the G700s is quite nice, but not necessary.
Mamba is first gaming mouse, vibrates when I play loud music (5.1), maybe all expensive mice do this, unsure.

Was looking at:
Mamba, Deathadder (probably neither since the software is atrocious), Logitech G700s, G700, G502, G602.

TL;DR:
Mouse with really fast program detecting profile changes, 1 or 2 macros at least preferably, only need about 1000-1200 DPI


----------



## Wphantom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> I know this a bit strange, but the best shape mouse ever for me was the 4Tech SWW-35. It's a old mouse (ball track) but i can't find a new one with this shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=9&scid=9&id=33
> 
> Anyone know a mouse with this shape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says
> 
> Product Dimension
> Mouse: 4.9L x 2.7W x 1.5H in.
> 
> My aim was perfect in cs 1.5, sens 1 with this old mouse, and with new one mouses, i just can't get it, idk if my hand is bigger now or w/e, i just want to be able to play tournaments again..


Man that looks quite like a zowie am or a microsoft wmo, but I wouldnt get any of those, the am is just not reliable in terms of surface compatibility and the wmo has an outdated low pcs sensor, you should get a mionix avior 7000 and try to get used to it.


----------



## Wphantom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If you're in the US you could try the supermat. It's about the same size as the qck+, it has less friction and doesn't increase friction over time like the qck does. It's been very durable for me. I've had it over 5 years and washed it multiple times and it's as good as new.
> 
> I don't know how low friction you want though. My ideal is enough to provide stopping power but not enough to hinder small movements. The supermat does this for me. But cloth pads typically have more friction than hardpads.
> 
> I've used other pads like the Talent that are more slippery but I used multiple ones and they all felt like they had little dips in the pad that would cause my mouse to tilt sometimes which was really annoying.


Im not in the US :S, but i can buy anything form amazon or ebay


----------



## Afineday2die

What's your grip style? *PALM : on game / FINGER : on the internet*
What's your sensitivity? *800 between 1200 or 1600/1800*
What's your maximum budget? *50$ on Amazon*
Do you want additional buttons? *yeah, one or two but not much important*
What games do you play? *CS:GO / CS:1.6 / BF 4 Mostly FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? *Steelseries KANA V2 / Razer DA 2013 / Zowie EC evo1/2 ( Zowie FK not in stock in Turkey and does not ship Turkey, currently) / Razer Taipan BF4 edt 37$ on amazon but it is laser ?*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: *I need help for the chose right mouse. I have a smaller hand and my hands are 18 Cm long. I thinking of Razer DA 13 but I cant sure . I've tried it in a store and it felt very comfortable. Only for a few seconds though,can't be very sure. I want to light mouse max weight : about 100gram*


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catbuster*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *1800 feels ok*
> What's your maximum budget? *100 euro, more if i like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Do you want additional buttons? *2 on the side like on razer DA*
> What games do you play? *cs 1.6., some moba, tera online*
> Do you mind about prediction? *no*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: *well my razer DA 1800 right click started to double click time to time, so i am looking for new right handed mouse. i was looking at razer DA 2013, but i dont like green and dat rubber for thumb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


If you want a full palm mouse the Naos 7000 is something to look at. I don't want to sound biased but Mionix products are well worth it however I really don't know that much about palm mice in general since I discovered I'm a fingertip player.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> I know this a bit strange, but the best shape mouse ever for me was the 4Tech SWW-35. It's a old mouse (ball track) but i can't find a new one with this shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=9&scid=9&id=33
> 
> Anyone know a mouse with this shape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says
> 
> Product Dimension
> Mouse: 4.9L x 2.7W x 1.5H in.
> 
> My aim was perfect in cs 1.5, sens 1 with this old mouse, and with new one mouses, i just can't get it, idk if my hand is bigger now or w/e, i just want to be able to play tournaments again..


Mionix Avior 7000, one and done. A great mouse with a similar shape and a far better sensor. Also consider the FK1 though if you don't need too much customizability and just want raw performance with no drivers at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dashaman*
> 
> Originally Posted by F u r u y a
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip Grip - Currently using the Naga
> What's your sensitivity? 1800
> What's your maximum budget? Nein
> Do you want additional buttons? That is a plus
> What games do you play? Dota 2, some MMORPGS (right now nothing), Street Fighter (irrelevant for a mouse), Most FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? Explain?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I was looking at the Logitech G402 and also the Logitech 502. Not sure......


G402 is pretty good. If you're a fingertip like me you might also want to consider ambi shapes that work really well with that grip like the Avior 7000 and FK1. Kone Pure Military is also worth a look. Since you mentioned FPS in your description, I'm only recommending optical mice here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *otanan*
> 
> Made an account for this website just for this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really looking for some help here.
> 
> -What's your grip style?
> Claw, but open-minded to changing it as I've been recommended to trying palm for a game called Osu!
> 
> -What's your sensitivity?
> 1000-1200, was using a Microsoft 2000 (no DPI changing that I know of) for 3 years
> 
> -What's your maximum budget?
> $200, hell, I'm willing to invest even that if you guys can help me out.
> 
> -Do you want additional buttons?
> Not a huge deal, currently have 2 extra macros (using Razer Mamba) and they're nice, but more or less is still welcome
> 
> -What games do you play?
> Really play anything, from Osu!, to Planetary Annihilation, to Unturned, to Unity, etc etc. (Add me on Steam or look for yourself: Otanan)
> Don't really play anything competitively though.
> 
> -Do you mind about prediction?
> Not that I know, I don't believe I've ever used it.
> 
> -Other relevant information:
> Currently using a Razer Mamba as aforementioned, love the macros, although the Mouse1 & 2 seem a little sensitive, not a huge deal.
> Currently my biggest gripe with it, is it Might have lag, not sure, and worst of all, the software freezes, and is slow to change profiles with exe detection.
> 
> -Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Not required but welcome: matte, wireless, long battery life
> Practically required: The main reason I want a new mouse, or a better one is profile changing, I want a mouse that detects my program and changes profiles seamlessly and quickly. I'd have to wait 30 seconds or more for the Synapse 2.0 to detect anything, and that's a huge turn-off.
> Also, love the clicky scroll wheel, like where scrolling it clicks rather than free-scroll, but the option to turn that on & off in the G700s is quite nice, but not necessary.
> Mamba is first gaming mouse, vibrates when I play loud music (5.1), maybe all expensive mice do this, unsure.
> 
> Was looking at:
> Mamba, Deathadder (probably neither since the software is atrocious), Logitech G700s, G700, G502, G602.
> 
> TL;DR:
> Mouse with really fast program detecting profile changes, 1 or 2 macros at least preferably, only need about 1000-1200 DPI


Welcome to OCN. If you are looking for the absolute most detailed info on mice you will find anywhere on the Internet, you've come to the right place. I think you might want to look at the G402 or the SteelSeries Rival which has very fast automatic profile switching as well. The G502 has a slightly better sensor than the 402 but it is 20g heavier, which can hinder you in very fast moving games like Osu, which by the way requires a very fast, highly accurate optical sensor for sure. The Rival is also excellent but you may have more problems with it down the line since SteelSeries' build quality is not up to par with brands like Logitech and Mionix in my experience. Logitech also offers a very long warranty, here in the US at least, and their support is absolutely fantastic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Afineday2die*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *PALM : on game / FINGER : on the internet*
> What's your sensitivity? *800 between 1200 or 1600/1800*
> What's your maximum budget? *50$ on Amazon*
> Do you want additional buttons? *yeah, one or two but not much important*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO / CS:1.6 / BF 4 Mostly FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Steelseries KANA V2 / Razer DA 2013 / Zowie EC evo1/2 ( Zowie FK not in stock in Turkey and does not ship Turkey, currently) / Razer Taipan BF4 edt 37$ on amazon but it is laser ?*
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: *I need help for the chose right mouse. I have a smaller hand and my hands are 18 Cm long. I thinking of Razer DA 13 but I cant sure . I've tried it in a store and it felt very comfortable. Only for a few seconds though,can't be very sure. I want to light mouse max weight : about 100gram*


I think if you are palming it then the EC1 would work well. Should last a lot longer than any Razer or SS offering.


----------



## Afineday2die

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think if you are palming it then the EC1 would work well. Should last a lot longer than any Razer or SS offering.


thanks for your answer.I have checked the amazon for the zowie EC and item does not ship to in my country also not in stock to a store in my country.
How is the SS Kana v2 ? I can buy SS kana v2 to 49$ price and Razer DA 13.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Afineday2die*
> 
> thanks for your answer.I have checked the amazon for the zowie EC and item does not ship to in my country also not in stock to a store in my country.
> How is the SS Kana v2 ? I can buy SS kana v2 to 49$ price and Razer DA 13.


I think most people aren't big fans of the Kana V2 on here...high LOD, 4000 CPI SROM smoothing, etc. But DA 2013 I believe has less smoothing now than it did at launch, but it definitely is one of the least reliable modern mice. You don't have anything else available over there? How about Mionix?


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think most people aren't big fans of the Kana V2 on here...high LOD, 4000 CPI SROM smoothing, etc. But DA 2013 I believe has less smoothing now than it did at launch, but it definitely is one of the least reliable modern mice. You don't have anything else available over there? How about Mionix?


DA3.5G feels so much nicer then the DA2013 IMO... hate what they did with the side grip which isn't grippy.

I think im going to try the Logi G502 next pay and see if i like it better then my SS Rival...


----------



## Afineday2die

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think most people aren't big fans of the Kana V2 on here...high LOD, 4000 CPI SROM smoothing, etc. But DA 2013 I believe has less smoothing now than it did at launch, but it definitely is one of the least reliable modern mice. You don't have anything else available over there? How about Mionix?


Mionix 7000 is expensive for me. Its 79$ on amazon. It'd be great If its price 50-59 $. I can buy Sensei RAW,SS Diablo,kinzu, Ozone neon and maybe zowie evo 1 I can find evo1 to a store but its too expensive 75-80$


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Afineday2die*
> 
> Mionix 7000 is expensive for me. Its 79$ on amazon. It'd be great If its price 50-59 $. I can buy Sensei RAW,SS Diablo,kinzu, Ozone neon and maybe zowie evo 1 I can find evo1 to a store but its too expensive 75-80$


True. Expensive but worth it if gaming is really that important to you


----------



## hza

Some people don't have the money and/or go to school, so, they're not allowed or able to pay that much 'for just a mouse'.


----------



## catacavaco

*What's your grip style?* a Palmish Claw grip (lets say 70% Claw, 30% Palm because my hand is relatively big, i know its weird) currently using Razer Mamba
*What's your sensitivity?* 1000dpi
*What's your maximum budget?* 150 USD
*Do you want additional buttons?* yup, 2 at the left side at least (blink dagger + force staff)
*What games do you play?* Dota 2 mostly, and CS + BF to relax after a pub stomp
*Do you mind about prediction?* Not really, maybe a little if its too much.
*Other relevant information:*
Right handed,
wireless (optional) (if response time is not drastically affected, thats why i've got a mamba in the first place),
the reason im looking for another mouse is that my razer mamba feels a little bit chubby, imprecise, and its very very old.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* a Palmish Claw grip (lets say 70% Claw, 30% Palm because my hand is relatively big, i know its weird) currently using Razer Mamba
> *What's your sensitivity?* 1000dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?* 150 USD
> *Do you want additional buttons?* yup, 2 at the left side at least (blink dagger + force staff)
> *What games do you play?* Dota 2 mostly, and CS + BF to relax after a pub stomp
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Not really, maybe a little if its too much.
> *Other relevant information:*
> Right handed,
> wireless (if response time is not drastically affected, thats why i've got a mamba in the first place),
> the reason im looking for another mouse is that my razer mamba feels a little bit chubby, imprecise, and its very very old.


If what you have is the original Mamba, that's really the only wireless mice we would even recommend around here except for the G602.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If what you have is the original Mamba, that's really the only wireless mice we would even recommend around here except for the G602.


oops sorry i forgot to point that being wireless is optional, not mandatory, and yes the one i have is the first mamba


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> oops sorry i forgot to point that being wireless is optional, not mandatory, and yes the one i have is the first mamba


I would keep it because it's one of the only PTE mice ever made that doesn't have forced dynamic CPI scaling if you install one of the earlier firmwares I believe with or before v1.06.

I'm not sure if you're into ambi mice but generally the newest mice that will work for any game around here, without giving too much detail about each one, would be

G502
Avior and Naos 7000
Kone Pure Military
Rival
FK1

Just can't tell you ahead of time if your grip will work for every one of those. If you want something nimble, and light and fast that's the FK1 but there is very little software customization available there. If you don't mind 100g rather than 90g, the Avior 7000 is what I use with a fingertip grip but it should also work with a claw grip. The Naos is more of a palm mouse. The Rival is large enough to be a palm mouse but thin enough that I was able to fingertip it with my large hands.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Afineday2die*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *PALM : on game / FINGER : on the internet*
> What's your sensitivity? *800 between 1200 or 1600/1800*
> What's your maximum budget? *50$ on Amazon*
> Do you want additional buttons? *yeah, one or two but not much important*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO / CS:1.6 / BF 4 Mostly FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Steelseries KANA V2 / Razer DA 2013 / Zowie EC evo1/2 ( Zowie FK not in stock in Turkey and does not ship Turkey, currently) / Razer Taipan BF4 edt 37$ on amazon but it is laser ?*
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: *I need help for the chose right mouse. I have a smaller hand and my hands are 18 Cm long. I thinking of Razer DA 13 but I cant sure . I've tried it in a store and it felt very comfortable. Only for a few seconds though,can't be very sure. I want to light mouse max weight : about 100gram*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Afineday2die*
> 
> Mionix 7000 is expensive for me. Its 79$ on amazon. It'd be great If its price 50-59 $. I can buy Sensei RAW,SS Diablo,kinzu, Ozone neon and maybe zowie evo 1 I can find evo1 to a store but its too expensive 75-80$


I'd recommend one of the Intellimice. You can find them on aliexpress.com for under $40 and they have the most accurate sensors to date.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix Avior 7000, one and done. A great mouse with a similar shape and a far better sensor. Also consider the FK1 though if you don't need too much customizability and just want raw performance with no drivers at all.


The Avior7000 isn't close to that shape at all...

The Wheel Mouse Optical, Abyssus, G100, and maybe FK1 are similar.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I would keep it because it's one of the only PTE mice ever made that doesn't have forced dynamic CPI scaling if you install one of the earlier firmwares I believe with or before v1.06.
> 
> I'm not sure if you're into ambi mice but generally the newest mice that will work for any game around here, without giving too much detail about each one, would be
> 
> G502
> Avior and Naos 7000
> Kone Pure Military
> Rival
> FK1
> 
> Just can't tell you ahead of time if your grip will work for every one of those. If you want something nimble, and light and fast that's the FK1 but there is very little software customization available there. If you don't mind 100g rather than 90g, the Avior 7000 is what I use with a fingertip grip but it should also work with a claw grip. The Naos is more of a palm mouse. The Rival is large enough to be a palm mouse but thin enough that I was able to fingertip it with my large hands.


I have the Rival and use a fingertip Grip, its comfortable but its a bit of a reach to get the one side button, Do you think the G502 will be a tad better for fingertip grip vs the Rival ?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I have the Rival and use a fingertip Grip, its comfortable but its a bit of a reach to get the one side button, Do you think the G502 will be a tad better for fingertip grip vs the Rival ?


No. It will be much worse because it's much heavier.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No. It will be much worse because it's much heavier.


I don't care about weight.. I'm talking about about the buttons


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I don't care about weight.. I'm talking about about the buttons


Then yes, for fingertip grip you should find that the side buttons placement for the g502 are better.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> I know this a bit strange, but the best shape mouse ever for me was the 4Tech SWW-35. It's a old mouse (ball track) but i can't find a new one with this shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=9&scid=9&id=33


microsoft intellimouse optical 1.1 looks closes to this.


----------



## rmp459

Just wondering if anyone has a better suggestion in terms of a mouse.

I used the ms 1.1 back in the day, so I am more comfortable with the ambi shaped mice that are available. Used to play competitive cs 1.6, but now its just casual FPS games, some MMO, and heavy into dota2.

I've tried so many over the years:
- MS IMO
- DA,
- kinzuadder (one of the better ones)
- mico
- mx518
- Xai
- puretrak nonsense (not as bad as the flak on the forums, but not great)
- Savu (was very happy w/ this mouse, sold it to a friend when I got my FK, LOD & braided cable is the only reason I haven't gone back yet)
- EC2 (decent, but buttons started double clicking and stuff)
- FK13 for while (probably the best shape so far for me - but surface started cracking and scroll wheel felt like it was dragging after a few months)
- Avior 7000 (Super uncomfortable, too much "heel" where my palm meets the mouse and caused hand to cramp)

Currently I am using a *Sensei Raw* Frost Blue (gloss top) - I knew going into it that it was another A9500 with some minor acceleration - but shape seemed decent and I felt that if I could adjust to it, I would buy 2-3 of the frost editions and have enough mice to last me for the next couple years without having to swap around. Currently I use it on a goliathus and it tracks perfect (also have some talents, hien S, few zowie pads, all seem to work well with it.)

So far the Sensei Raw has been a solid mouse for me. Desktop use makes me think it feels a little "off" but I have adjusted to FPS games and Dota2. It feels natural for me. The Avior on the other hand was awful. The heel of the mouse was way to big and cramped my hand. I couldnt be precise at all. With regards to the shape, the FK13 is a tad small but comfortable. The Sensei raw is a tad big, but again comfortable. I don't like tall mouse that sit flat with your palm as my grip is sort of hybrid.

I use around 1200 dpi b/c of the zowie stepping that I adjusted to on the EC2 and the FK13.

I have been looking for something I can just buy a few of and not have to worry about swapping devices every 12 months when something new comes out or my scroll wheel acts up lol.

Any suggestions ? I've been looking at the Kone Military, but the shape I am not so sure about. 1-2 side buttons are a must.
I'm hesitant to touch the FK1 due to the size (similar to sensei raw) and the dpi steps (need to go up or down and don't like changing game sensitivity). Also everywhere in the US is still out of stock.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I would keep it because it's one of the only PTE mice ever made that doesn't have forced dynamic CPI scaling if you install one of the earlier firmwares I believe with or before v1.06.
> 
> I'm not sure if you're into ambi mice but generally the newest mice that will work for any game around here, without giving too much detail about each one, would be
> 
> G502
> Avior and Naos 7000
> Kone Pure Military
> Rival
> FK1
> 
> Just can't tell you ahead of time if your grip will work for every one of those. If you want something nimble, and light and fast that's the FK1 but there is very little software customization available there. If you don't mind 100g rather than 90g, the Avior 7000 is what I use with a fingertip grip but it should also work with a claw grip. The Naos is more of a palm mouse. The Rival is large enough to be a palm mouse but thin enough that I was able to fingertip it with my large hands.


I see, so maybe i should keep the mouse, buy some replacement buttons/cover and downgrade the firmware (checking right now it sits at 1.13 version).
If dynamic DPI scaling is disabled, what are the drawbacks ?? (it is the one where the mouse starts jittering and moving while standing still because of the vibrations of the surface?)
What kind of surface is best to improve precision, cloth ? metal ? plastic ? Im currently using a razer goliathus but it is older than the mouse itself hehehe
Another question if i may, its going to sound really stupid but, PTE stands for Philips Twin-Eye laser right ?

And again thanks for all the input


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> PTE stands for Philips Twin-Eye laser right ?


Yes, it does.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rmp459*
> 
> snip


The Kone Military's supposed to be nearly same mold as the Savu, so if you liked the shape go for it. Roccat has the best build quality out of everything I've tried.

Gamejava has the FK1 for ~$80 shipped. Amazon has it for 60 but there's a waiting list.

Also did you have the FK14? That was the one with the really bad coating problems, it should be fine on the FK1.


----------



## rmp459

No - both FK13s or v1's. And both have cracked coating on the right side of the body like ~ where my pinky sits on it.

Never got the 14 b/c they still had unresolved issues. I might order a kone military but i hate the braided cable and the "military theme" or just stick with this sensei and give up w/ the complaining


----------



## hza

From my experience with KPO and Savu I would say the build quality is above SS mice. And if you don't like braided cables, you could think of buying an extra mouse cord holder/bungee/whatever you wanna call it. I got the Roccat Apuri mostly because it has an integrated USB hub, so to say, but it's very practical for my every day use beyond of using it just as a mouse cord holder.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> I see, so maybe i should keep the mouse, buy some replacement buttons/cover and downgrade the firmware (checking right now it sits at 1.13 version).
> If dynamic DPI scaling is disabled, what are the drawbacks ?? (it is the one where the mouse starts jittering and moving while standing still because of the vibrations of the surface?)
> What kind of surface is best to improve precision, cloth ? metal ? plastic ? Im currently using a razer goliathus but it is older than the mouse itself hehehe
> Another question if i may, its going to sound really stupid but, PTE stands for Philips Twin-Eye laser right ?
> 
> And again thanks for all the input


Yeah the point of CPI scaling is such that when you move the mouse very slowly the CPI automatically reverts to some low number like 400 or so. This means if you use a higher sensitivity it feels like acceleration. When it isn't enabled, you can run into issues like when you click the mouse sinks into the pad and the sensor will track that at higher CPIs, but this is much less true on hard mats. For a PTE, hard plastic or aluminum should work best...or at least the former mainly because it would mitigate issues where you click and the sinking into cloth would track diagonally during the click. Vibration may still cause the cursor to jitter also, yes. But this allows higher CPIs without any acceleration problems. Lastly one more tidbit is that the PTE is actually not an optical type of sensor at all. "Laser" means laser-illuminated optical, "optical" means LED-illuminated optical, but PTEs actually track using the doppler effect by using two lasers, a different technology entirely.


----------



## twerk

What's the go-to budget mouse nowadays? I've got my Naos 7000 for home but I'd like something a bit cheaper for while I'm on the move.


*What's your grip style?* Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* 1600-1800 CPI
*What's your maximum budget?* Cheap as possible, under £40 would be great.
*Do you want additional buttons?* Doesn't matter.
*What games do you play?* CS:GO, BF4, Borderlands 2... basically any shooter.
*Do you mind about prediction?* The less the better.
*Other relevant information:* Driverless would be great if possible, but it's not a big deal.

Oh and it can't be picky with surfaces, it will be used on a soft pad the majority of the time but it also needs to work on tables and the like.

Thanks!


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> What's the go-to budget mouse nowadays? I've got my Naos 7000 for home but I'd like something a bit cheaper for while I'm on the move.


G100s, just keep it under 2000 dpi and you're good. You also don't need drivers unless you want to change the default DPI steps.


----------



## Wphantom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> What's the go-to budget mouse nowadays? I've got my Naos 7000 for home but I'd like something a bit cheaper for while I'm on the move.
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 1600-1800 CPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* Cheap as possible, under £40 would be great.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Doesn't matter.
> *What games do you play?* CS:GO, BF4, Borderlands 2... basically any shooter.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* The less the better.
> *Other relevant information:* Driverless would be great if possible, but it's not a big deal.
> Oh and it can't be picky with surfaces, it will be used on a soft pad the majority of the time but it also needs to work on tables and the like.
> 
> Thanks!


Forget about g100s, it is nice, but it has way to low pcs for reliable fps gaming, and the main switches go wrong sometimes, the best you can get for under 40 is a thermaltake saphira or a cm storm spawn, both 3090 with good features, onboard memory and high pcs. The spawn has a great reputation, you only need to flash it with the latest firmware and it works flawlessly.

I had a g100s and the switches went wrong, plus, everytime I wanted to do a fast 180º turn on csgo it malfunctioned.

There are some acceptable mice on the sub 30 category, the kinzu v2, the g100s, the cm storm xornet, they are nice if you totally cant get over 30usd, but if you can spend a little more you can get a really nice and full featured 3090 mouse, like the saphira or the spawn.

Other options are the corsair m30 but it has a failing wheel, the cm storm recon is nice but a little more expensive and the razer krait 2013 is really really nice but hard to find, i can find it here in my country for something like 35-40usd


----------



## Squirrely

Well it looks like the Sensei has finally started to die. It has been cutting in and out a lot as of lately along with clicking on its own. I popped it open (it's past the warranty) and there's nothing out of the ordinary inside so I suspect something is frayed somewhere.


What's your grip style? *Fingertip, right handed*
What's your sensitivity? *1000-1250*
What's your maximum budget? *No limit. I just want to get a good mouse and be done with it for a while, thus I am willing to spend a bit.







*
Do you want additional buttons? *Two on the left side.*
What games do you play? *CS:GO, Dota 2 and other RTS/FPS games.*
Do you mind about prediction? *Just like the guy above: The less the better!*
Other relevant information: *I think I want to try and stick to optical this go around. It isn't that I hate my Sensei...it's just I remember things being easier on my Deathadder. I use a Steelseries 4HD mousepad.*
I've looked at Roccat's offerings such as the Kone Pure. The problem is...there are many other companies and I have no idea where to start, hah.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squirrely*
> 
> Well it looks like the Sensei has finally started to die. It has been cutting in and out a lot as of lately along with clicking on its own. I popped it open (it's past the warranty) and there's nothing out of the ordinary inside so I suspect something is frayed somewhere.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip, right handed*
> What's your sensitivity? *1000-1250*
> What's your maximum budget? *No limit. I just want to get a good mouse and be done with it for a while, thus I am willing to spend a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Do you want additional buttons? *Two on the left side.*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO, Dota 2 and other RTS/FPS games.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Just like the guy above: The less the better!*
> Other relevant information: *I think I want to try and stick to optical this go around. It isn't that I hate my Sensei...it's just I remember things being easier on my Deathadder. I use a Steelseries 4HD mousepad.*
> I've looked at Roccat's offerings such as the Kone Pure. The problem is...there are many other companies and I have no idea where to start, hah.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Zowie FK1, Mionix Avior 7000.

I came from a Sensei as well. Laser is bad. Real bad. You'll feel your aim come back to your pre-laser days once you switch back to optical for sure


----------



## Squirrely

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Zowie FK1, Mionix Avior 7000.
> 
> I came from a Sensei as well. Laser is bad. Real bad. You'll feel your aim come back to your pre-laser days once you switch back to optical for sure


Sweet. Thanks for the suggestions! Just so I can learn a bit, why did you suggest those two? I'm leaning more towards the Avior.

Also what didn't you like about the Sensei? Curious to see if we had similar complaints.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> What's the go-to budget mouse nowadays? I've got my Naos 7000 for home but I'd like something a bit cheaper for while I'm on the move.
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 1600-1800 CPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* Cheap as possible, under £40 would be great.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Doesn't matter.
> *What games do you play?* CS:GO, BF4, Borderlands 2... basically any shooter.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* The less the better.
> *Other relevant information:* Driverless would be great if possible, but it's not a big deal.
> Oh and it can't be picky with surfaces, it will be used on a soft pad the majority of the time but it also needs to work on tables and the like.
> 
> Thanks!


Roccat Savu is a very good package for its price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squirrely*
> 
> Well it looks like the Sensei has finally started to die. It has been cutting in and out a lot as of lately along with clicking on its own. I popped it open (it's past the warranty) and there's nothing out of the ordinary inside so I suspect something is frayed somewhere.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip, right handed*
> What's your sensitivity? *1000-1250*
> What's your maximum budget? *No limit. I just want to get a good mouse and be done with it for a while, thus I am willing to spend a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Do you want additional buttons? *Two on the left side.*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO, Dota 2 and other RTS/FPS games.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Just like the guy above: The less the better!*
> Other relevant information: *I think I want to try and stick to optical this go around. It isn't that I hate my Sensei...it's just I remember things being easier on my Deathadder. I use a Steelseries 4HD mousepad.*
> I've looked at Roccat's offerings such as the Kone Pure. The problem is...there are many other companies and I have no idea where to start, hah.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You should also add Kone Pure Military to your list since it's a smaller mouse, but not a small mouse, if you know what I mean.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squirrely*
> 
> Sweet. Thanks for the suggestions! Just so I can learn a bit, why did you suggest those two? I'm leaning more towards the Avior.
> 
> Also what didn't you like about the Sensei? Curious to see if we had similar complaints.


There are two massive threads on each mouse, but what it comes down to is that the FK1 is lighter but the Avior is more full-featured. Both have sensors way more than capable enough for serious FPS gaming.

As for the Sensei, it really was the sensor and the sensor alone that killed it for me. Never before have I felt so unsure of whether high speed sniping flickshots would hit the target properly, which I found was directly related to the random 0-5% positive acceleration at higher movement speeds for the sensor in the Sensei. The sensor, now that I think of it, really was the only major thing that just killed that mouse for me.


----------



## Squirrely

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You should also add Kone Pure Military to your list since it's a smaller mouse, but not a small mouse, if you know what I mean.


Will do. Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There are two massive threads on each mouse, but what it comes down to is that the FK1 is lighter but the Avior is more full-featured. Both have sensors way more than capable enough for serious FPS gaming.
> 
> As for the Sensei, it really was the sensor and the sensor alone that killed it for me. Never before have I felt so unsure of whether high speed sniping flickshots would hit the target properly, which I found was directly related to the random 0-5% positive acceleration at higher movement speeds for the sensor in the Sensei. The sensor, now that I think of it, really was the only major thing that just killed that mouse for me.


I actually just found them. Reading time!

That makes a lot of sense now. It always seemed that I couldn't flick the mouse as accurately compared to others.

Once again thanks for all the info!


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> G100s, just keep it under 2000 dpi and you're good. You also don't need drivers unless you want to change the default DPI steps.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Forget about g100s, it is nice, but it has way to low pcs for reliable fps gaming, and the main switches go wrong sometimes, the best you can get for under 40 is a thermaltake saphira or a cm storm spawn, both 3090 with good features, onboard memory and high pcs. The spawn has a great reputation, you only need to flash it with the latest firmware and it works flawlessly.
> 
> I had a g100s and the switches went wrong, plus, everytime I wanted to do a fast 180º turn on csgo it malfunctioned.
> 
> There are some acceptable mice on the sub 30 category, the kinzu v2, the g100s, the cm storm xornet, they are nice if you totally cant get over 30usd, but if you can spend a little more you can get a really nice and full featured 3090 mouse, like the saphira or the spawn.
> 
> Other options are the corsair m30 but it has a failing wheel, the cm storm recon is nice but a little more expensive and the razer krait 2013 is really really nice but hard to find, i can find it here in my country for something like 35-40usd


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Roccat Savu is a very good package for its price.


Thanks guys.

Are there any other mice that are neutral looking, i.e. not 'gaming styled'. It will be used in a professional environment and having LEDs glaring out and garish designs wouldn't be appropriate. Something like the Zowie EC eVo black would be great.

Out of the ones suggested the Kinzu v2 is the only one that would be acceptable really, so that's the current leading candidate. Not quite sure how I'll deal with using the 3305DK after using the 3310 for so long but we shall see.


----------



## otanan

Decided to ultimately go with the Logitech G602, after a long debate with the Logitech G502 and G700s.
Considering I am more of a wireless man and less of an extremely competitive gamer.

Compared to my Razer Mamba I cannot be more happy, the profile transition is flawless, I spam a button upon entering a game to see how fast the transition is, but I can't even into a game fast enough to test it. (Even Osu where my Toggle Chat binding is near immediate, it works before I can even get in game, light years ahead of the Razer Mamba).

Synapse 2.0 managed to lag and crash for me within the first few hours, LGS (Logitech Gaming Software) has worked like a dream so far.

Not to mention how mature the software is, and how perfect the mouse feels in my hand, the receiver tiny compared to the Razer Mamba stand, which is definitely a plus for me.
Finally, (there are dozens of things I prefer with this mouse over the Mamba, but to keep this short), the fact that it has a default profile, so that if it can't detect a program running to switch profiles, it has a "fallback", which I call default of course.
Synapse 2.0 doesn't have that, if I want a default profile for desktop use, and one for a game, as soon as I ran the game, and closed it, I'd have to manually switch profiles back, not with this mouse.
The G602 lets me configure a thing here and there, and just use it, never worry about it again, Synapse 2.0 made me constantly fiddle with it in moments where I shouldn't have to!


----------



## rmp459

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> Are there any other mice that are neutral looking, i.e. not 'gaming styled'. It will be used in a professional environment and having LEDs glaring out and garish designs wouldn't be appropriate. Something like the Zowie EC eVo black would be great.
> 
> Out of the ones suggested the Kinzu v2 is the only one that would be acceptable really, so that's the current leading candidate. Not quite sure how I'll deal with using the 3305DK after using the 3310 for so long but we shall see.


You can completely turn off the led on the savu and save the profile. Looks completely black.

I used a zowie fk at work for the same reason.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rmp459*
> 
> You can completely turn off the led on the savu and save the profile. Looks completely black.
> 
> I used a zowie fk at work for the same reason.


Seconding this. Savu is good, somewhat questionable shape though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Forget about g100s, it is nice, but it has way to low pcs for reliable fps gaming, and the main switches go wrong sometimes, the best you can get for under 40 is a thermaltake saphira or a cm storm spawn, both 3090 with good features, onboard memory and high pcs. The spawn has a great reputation, you only need to flash it with the latest firmware and it works flawlessly.
> 
> I had a g100s and the switches went wrong, plus, everytime I wanted to do a fast 180º turn on csgo it malfunctioned.


Yeah true, for low sens it's probably unusable because it doesn't handle hitting the malfunction speed well like a mlt04 or a3090/3310. For medium sensitivity or rts it's great though, the sensor's nice otherwise. 40cm/360 is pushing it I'd guess.

Personally G100s isn't my absolute favorite but I prefer it over some more expensive mice for claw/finger grip, it's a good combo of light weight/simple shape/nice tracking quality. Also it's like $20.

idk why you're recommending some random mouse with prediction though, or a kinzu v2, which has a worse sensor with a lower malfunction speed than then g100s, and still doesn't handle hitting the malfunction speed well.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wphantom*
> 
> Forget about g100s, it is nice, but it has way to low pcs for reliable fps gaming, and the main switches go wrong sometimes, the best you can get for under 40 is a thermaltake saphira or a cm storm spawn, both 3090 with good features, onboard memory and high pcs. The spawn has a great reputation, you only need to flash it with the latest firmware and it works flawlessly.
> 
> I had a g100s and the switches went wrong, plus, everytime I wanted to do a fast 180º turn on csgo it malfunctioned.
> 
> There are some acceptable mice on the sub 30 category, the kinzu v2, the g100s, the cm storm xornet, they are nice if you totally cant get over 30usd, but if you can spend a little more you can get a really nice and full featured 3090 mouse, like the saphira or the spawn.
> 
> Other options are the corsair m30 but it has a failing wheel, the cm storm recon is nice but a little more expensive and the razer krait 2013 is really really nice but hard to find, i can find it here in my country for something like 35-40usd


He's using 1600-1800 CPI. He doesn't need high malfunction speed.


----------



## MADworld

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *I've been using laser so I'll need to retrain I think, used 2200 on the Logitech G500 but would prefer up to 3000 to give me some room to try things out*
What's your maximum budget? *No limit for good quality*
Do you want additional buttons? *Two left side buttons*
What games do you play? *Anything and everything, a lot of Arma 3 atm., but the mouse should be aimed at FPS after that you can just make it work for everything else*
Do you mind about prediction? *Don't really understand for sure what it is, but if it alters mouse movement the less the better right?*
Other relevant information: *I just happened to stumble upon information about the problems with laser and after reading up on this forum I went with the Mionix NAOS 7000 because it seemed great and the side finger rest seemed like a great idea. I've only had it for two days but it seems to be too small for me, or to be specific because it seems to be as long as the Logitech MX500, MX518 and lastly the G500 that I've used before but not as high, making it smaller over all. I saw a picture somewhere around here on how to measure your hand and mine is around 19-20cm and honestly I could probably even go for something bigger than the G500.*


----------



## Kouri

Been gaming with a gamepad for a while, but I'm looking to find myself a nice FPS mouse.

1) I seem to prefer a claw grip, at least that's what I'm using on my old Lachesis. Have a cheap Dell mouse at work I have to Fingertip, but that's proving uncomfortable. I had an M65 that would've been perfect, if the LMB/RMB clicks weren't so sensitive, and that "sniper" thumb button was a bit further back to accommodate my grip.

2) I'm still fine tuning my sensitivity preferences. With stock Windows sensitivity, 2400 DPI is a smidge too low, while 4000 is a bit high. I'm playing around in the 3000-3500 range at the moment.

3) I'll budget myself at $100 USD. Obviously I'd love the cheapest mouse that'll suit my requirements, but I'm not opposed to paying a premium for quality.

4) After using an m65 for a while, I really came to appreciate the idea of one good thumb button, along with DPI toggles up top. I don't really need any more buttons, but I'm not opposed to extra, as long as they won't get in my way.

5) The FPS I'm currently on is Crysis 2. I'll occasionally revisit the Half-Life 2 series. I've also played through a number of Portal 2 custom maps that require fast, precise shots that are just so much easier to accomplish with a mouse over a gamepad. Bastion and Transistor carry a few weapons that offer better aiming with a mouse. No MMOs or MOBAs. Aside from gaming, I also need this mouse to perform well within Windows, and more specifically, design software. I do a fair amount of work in Photoshop and FlexiSIGN (a vector art program).

6) I get that smoothing, hardware acceleration, and the like are considered "bad" in the competitive scene, but I'm really not experienced enough to tell the difference. That said, I'm a thorough learner, and will probably become more discerning as time goes on, so I'd prefer not to purchase a mouse that will disappoint me once I know better. For now, I'll just ask for an Optical sensor with the option to turn acceleration on for the Windows interface and off for gaming.

7) Stiff main buttons are going to be a must. I actually liked that m65 a fair bit, and after a few days, I managed to get used to gripping it. However, the main mouse buttons were too sensitive for use outside of gaming - I was constantly, accidentally, clicking the right mouse button. That alone was reason enough for me to return the mouse. I held a G502 at a local shop, and while it was comfortable, I was concerned the main buttons might also be too sensitive - though I had no way of actually testing this out. Unlike the m65, I could actually rest my fingers on the mouse buttons, but they were also very easy to depress - more so than the two wireless logitech models on display (I didn't catch the models, but the whole display was of three Logitech gaming mice - the g502 and two wireless models. I want to say some sort of g7xx and an unknown, but cheaper model)

Wired mouse is preferable. I really liked the m65 scroll wheel, but I'll take anything decent. Different profiles would be appreciated, so long as I can quickly swap between them. The ~30 seconds my Lachesis is unresponsive while swapping profiles prevents me from even wanting to use the feature. Being able to assign the thumb button to a low-DPI "sniper" mode would be considered a plus, but not a necessity, so long as I can limit the top DPI selection to two or three options. One annoying bit of my Lachesis is how I'm forced to have five different options for the top DPI toggles.

For the record, my hand measures 8" from wrist to middle fingertip.

I've been eyeing the two Mionix 7000 mice. The Naos has great reviews, especially from folks with larger hands, and the $60 price at Amazon and Best Buy makes it an attractive offer, but I've no idea how well I'd acclimate to a palm grip. On the other hand, the Avior seems to be recommended for claw grip, but I stumbled on one review that mentioned accidentally right-clicking rather often, and it has me concerned.


----------



## Atavax

the zowie fk1 is a little larger then the avior. It has a max dpi of 3200, right around where you were thinking ideal. It has huano switches, so stiffer main buttons then most mice.

but yeah, the mionix naos and avior 7000 are also very legitimate choices. My only concern is the main buttons might not be stiff enough. Zowie mice use huano switches which are a little stiffer then omron switches. Most gaming mice use omron switches for the main buttons, the m65 does as well. Then other then switches, what effects how stiff the main buttons are is simply leverage from the shape of the buttons and the placement of the switches. So its hard to rank mice in terms of hardness of button clicking.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kouri*
> 
> Been gaming with a gamepad for a while, but I'm looking to find myself a nice FPS mouse.
> 
> 1) I seem to prefer a claw grip, at least that's what I'm using on my old Lachesis. Have a cheap Dell mouse at work I have to Fingertip, but that's proving uncomfortable. I had an M65 that would've been perfect, if the LMB/RMB clicks weren't so sensitive, and that "sniper" thumb button was a bit further back to accommodate my grip.
> 
> 2) I'm still fine tuning my sensitivity preferences. With stock Windows sensitivity, 2400 DPI is a smidge too low, while 4000 is a bit high. I'm playing around in the 3000-3500 range at the moment.
> 
> 3) I'll budget myself at $100 USD. Obviously I'd love the cheapest mouse that'll suit my requirements, but I'm not opposed to paying a premium for quality.
> 
> 4) After using an m65 for a while, I really came to appreciate the idea of one good thumb button, along with DPI toggles up top. I don't really need any more buttons, but I'm not opposed to extra, as long as they won't get in my way.
> 
> 5) The FPS I'm currently on is Crysis 2. I'll occasionally revisit the Half-Life 2 series. I've also played through a number of Portal 2 custom maps that require fast, precise shots that are just so much easier to accomplish with a mouse over a gamepad. Bastion and Transistor carry a few weapons that offer better aiming with a mouse. No MMOs or MOBAs. Aside from gaming, I also need this mouse to perform well within Windows, and more specifically, design software. I do a fair amount of work in Photoshop and FlexiSIGN (a vector art program).
> 
> 6) I get that smoothing, hardware acceleration, and the like are considered "bad" in the competitive scene, but I'm really not experienced enough to tell the difference. That said, I'm a thorough learner, and will probably become more discerning as time goes on, so I'd prefer not to purchase a mouse that will disappoint me once I know better. For now, I'll just ask for an Optical sensor with the option to turn acceleration on for the Windows interface and off for gaming.
> 
> 7) Stiff main buttons are going to be a must. I actually liked that m65 a fair bit, and after a few days, I managed to get used to gripping it. However, the main mouse buttons were too sensitive for use outside of gaming - I was constantly, accidentally, clicking the right mouse button. That alone was reason enough for me to return the mouse. I held a G502 at a local shop, and while it was comfortable, I was concerned the main buttons might also be too sensitive - though I had no way of actually testing this out. Unlike the m65, I could actually rest my fingers on the mouse buttons, but they were also very easy to depress - more so than the two wireless logitech models on display (I didn't catch the models, but the whole display was of three Logitech gaming mice - the g502 and two wireless models. I want to say some sort of g7xx and an unknown, but cheaper model)
> 
> Wired mouse is preferable. I really liked the m65 scroll wheel, but I'll take anything decent. Different profiles would be appreciated, so long as I can quickly swap between them. The ~30 seconds my Lachesis is unresponsive while swapping profiles prevents me from even wanting to use the feature. Being able to assign the thumb button to a low-DPI "sniper" mode would be considered a plus, but not a necessity, so long as I can limit the top DPI selection to two or three options. One annoying bit of my Lachesis is how I'm forced to have five different options for the top DPI toggles.
> 
> For the record, my hand measures 8" from wrist to middle fingertip.
> 
> I've been eyeing the two Mionix 7000 mice. The Naos has great reviews, especially from folks with larger hands, and the $60 price at Amazon and Best Buy makes it an attractive offer, but I've no idea how well I'd acclimate to a palm grip. On the other hand, the Avior seems to be recommended for claw grip, but I stumbled on one review that mentioned accidentally right-clicking rather often, and it has me concerned.


Yeah if you want stiffer buttons go with an FK1. There are only so many CPI steps for it though, but it will have the buttons you're looking for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *I've been using laser so I'll need to retrain I think, used 2200 on the Logitech G500 but would prefer up to 3000 to give me some room to try things out*
> What's your maximum budget? *No limit for good quality*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Two left side buttons*
> What games do you play? *Anything and everything, a lot of Arma 3 atm., but the mouse should be aimed at FPS after that you can just make it work for everything else*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Don't really understand for sure what it is, but if it alters mouse movement the less the better right?*
> Other relevant information: *I just happened to stumble upon information about the problems with laser and after reading up on this forum I went with the Mionix NAOS 7000 because it seemed great and the side finger rest seemed like a great idea. I've only had it for two days but it seems to be too small for me, or to be specific because it seems to be as long as the Logitech MX500, MX518 and lastly the G500 that I've used before but not as high, making it smaller over all. I saw a picture somewhere around here on how to measure your hand and mine is around 19-20cm and honestly I could probably even go for something bigger than the G500.*


I'd say maybe you can try something like the Rival. That thing is actually huge.


----------



## Kouri

Huh, it's a shame that the FK1 is currently out of stock everywhere I've looked. The lack of customization is a but of a turn-off, but being able to actually use the mouse as a mouse is priority.

On the topic of switches, are the sizes typically standard? For instance, if I was handy with a soldering iron, and willing to toss out my warranty, would it be possible to swap out a set of Omron switches for a couple of Huano?

I suppose I could also train myself to be a bit less heavy handed. With the m65, I couldn't even rest my fingers on the buttons, while with the g502, I could rest lightly, but the buttons were also very easy to press. Does the G100s also use Omron switches? I think Amazon has them for around $25, and it would give me a better idea of the switch sensitivity - from what I hear, the m65 is even more sensitive than is typical, so it's probably not a good basis for me to judge the sensitivity of other Omron-packing mice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kouri*
> 
> Huh, it's a shame that the FK1 is currently out of stock everywhere I've looked. The lack of customization is a but of a turn-off, but being able to actually use the mouse as a mouse is priority.
> 
> On the topic of switches, are the sizes typically standard? For instance, if I was handy with a soldering iron, and willing to toss out my warranty, would it be possible to swap out a set of Omron switches for a couple of Huano?
> 
> I suppose I could also train myself to be a bit less heavy handed. With the m65, I couldn't even rest my fingers on the buttons, while with the g502, I could rest lightly, but the buttons were also very easy to press. Does the G100s also use Omron switches? I think Amazon has them for around $25, and it would give me a better idea of the switch sensitivity - from what I hear, the m65 is even more sensitive than is typical, so it's probably not a good basis for me to judge the sensitivity of other Omron-packing mice.


I wouldn't get the M65 though. If you must have Corsair, get the M45. I think you'd do fine with a Mionix mouse, those switches aren't so light as to be ridiculous like a Razer.


----------



## Kouri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I wouldn't get the M65 though. If you must have Corsair, get the M45. I think you'd do fine with a Mionix mouse, those switches aren't so light as to be ridiculous like a Razer.


Oh no, I'm not intent on going back to the m65 - I only keep bringing it up because it's the mouse I was using for the past week before returning it. The Lachesis I'm currently using is a cheap refurb I got on a deal site. It clicks fine for me, apparently using some cheap generic switches, but the middle button is acting up, so I figure I'll swap the mouse out for a nice upgrade.

If the Mionix aren't as sensitive as the m65 I just abandoned, then I'd be all for them.I don't need super-stiff switches, I just need something I can rest my fingers on without accidentally clicking.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

The Rival is certainly not "huge"... It gets really thin at the front which caused it to cramp my hand.


----------



## MADworld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The Rival is certainly not "huge"... It gets really thin at the front which caused it to cramp my hand.


What other big mice are there that I could consider?


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> What other big mice are there that I could consider?


CM Advance 2


----------



## MADworld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> CM Advance 2


From what I read the sensor has some acceleration issues. Am I wrong?

Is the SteelSeries Rival the only good big mouse to consider? Because otherwise I'll just have hope that the narrow front wont be a problem for me.


----------



## Kronin

I had CM Advance 2 for about 10 days. I tested the sensor with some mouse testing software but the results were sluggish.
Now, my theory is that mouse testing SW had some incompatibility with W8 since I had never noticed in game (I play Bf3 most of the time) that i have any issues with aiming.
Eventually i RMA-ed Advance 2 due to the squeaky noise right click was making and went for DA 2013.
I RMA-ed it few days go and see 



 for an acceleration .
To tell you the truth I am in the same boat as you are, I am considering Rival as well (its damn cheap and has 3 years of warranty) but man the coating is piling off worse than with Advance 2. See this video



This is much worse than with Advance 2, and see the Rival thread to see the decomposing rubberized side grip.
I had CM Zero-G and Advance 2 and I found out that those mice had the best ergonomy that fits me which is the reason why i am after all of this still considering Advance 2.
And i can tell you right away, there is no perfect mouse on the market no matter the price range, and by "perfect" i mean a mouse that will look, feel and perform the same as the day you bought, once its warranty expires.
If you have big wide hands, i would seriously consider Advance 2 in your case.

PS

Consider also Mionix Naos 7000 or 8200


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> I had CM Advance 2 for about 10 days. I tested the sensor with some mouse testing software but the results were sluggish.
> Now, my theory is that mouse testing SW had some incompatibility with W8 since I had never noticed in game (I play Bf3 most of the time) that i have any issues with aiming.
> Eventually i RMA-ed Advance 2 due to the squeaky noise right click was making and went for DA 2013.
> I RMA-ed it few days go and see
> 
> 
> 
> for an acceleration .
> To tell you the truth I am in the same boat as you are, I am considering Rival as well (its damn cheap and has 3 years of warranty) but man the coating is piling off worse than with Advance 2. See this video
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is much worse than with Advance 2, and see the Rival thread to see the decomposing rubberized side grip.
> I had CM Zero-G and Advance 2 and I found out that those mice had the best ergonomy that fits me which is the reason why i am after all of this still considering Advance 2.
> And i can tell you right away, there is no perfect mouse on the market no matter the price range, and by "perfect" i mean a mouse that will look, feel and perform the same as the day you bought, once its warranty expires.
> If you have big wide hands, i would seriously consider Advance 2 in your case.
> 
> PS
> 
> Consider also Mionix Naos 7000 or 8200


I currently Love my Rival, tracking is perfect, software is really good, and shape is really comfy, i use my mouse everyday and there is nothing wrong with my side grips which are amazing compared to the crap thats on the DA2013. I think this would be the perfect mouse for alot and Palm Grip uses, to bad im a Fingtertip Grip user, still a good mouse for me just a bit of a reach to get the front side button.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The Rival is certainly not "huge"... It gets really thin at the front which caused it to cramp my hand.


How is the Rival compared to the IME3.0? I'm currently using the DA13 but I hate it, it doesn't feel anything like the IME3.0 and the rubber side grips are sometimes hard to grip when my hand sweats. I don't know if I should get a new IME3.0 since mine died or to get a Rival.


----------



## MADworld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> *SNIP*
> If you have big wide hands, i would seriously consider Advance 2 in your case.
> 
> PS
> 
> Consider also Mionix Naos 7000 or 8200


I guess I'll have to take a closer look at the Advance 2. I'll have to order one in about 12 hours to make sure I have one when I get back home later in the week.

About the Mionix
http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2880_30#post_22682863
tl:dr It was too small

It sucks to only have two choices, us guys with big hands need some love too.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> I guess I'll have to take a closer look at the Advance 2. I'll have to order one in about 12 hours to make sure I have one when I get back home later in the week.
> 
> About the Mionix
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2880_30#post_22682863
> tl:dr It was too small
> 
> It sucks to only have two choices, us guys with big hands need some love too.


My hand was ~20 cm last time i measured it and Advance 2 has 135mm so it is a bit longer than Naos 7000.
Dont forget about the squeaky right button, a college from the forum told me it disappeared after a couple of weeks. However i didnt have that much patience. But from this perspective I think i should have pulled it through.
Dont forget the rubberized coating starting to fall off after 6-12 months.

@Qu1ckset

I dont have Rival but i see a lot of posts of people complaining about it, as well as their pictures and that cant be a coincidence, not to mention that guy from HardwareCanucks...
I had DA2013 and the rubber on the side didnt decompose as the rubber on the Rival, not at all matter of fact and I use my computer 8-10 hours per day.
However the sensor did go berserk, but that is a another story


----------



## metal571

Whatever you guys do don't get the Naos 8200, that's the same crappy sensor as the Advance 2.


----------



## MADworld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Whatever you guys do don't get the Naos 8200, that's the same crappy sensor as the Advance 2.


Yeah the more I read the more it seems like there are only two "big" mice with good sensors, the Mionix NAOS 7000 (too small for me) and the SteelSeries Rival. So I'm pretty sure I'll have to cross my fingers and order the Rival in the morning (~10 hours) before I leave unless someone points out one that I've missed.

I also came across the Razer Deathadder 2013 but it seems the sensor is quite a mixed bag. Consumer protection is very good here in Finland so if the Rival starts falling apart from normal use during the warranty period I'm pretty sure I can send it in for a new one.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> Yeah the more I read the more it seems like there are only two "big" mice with good sensors, the Mionix NAOS 7000 (too small for me) and the SteelSeries Rival. So I'm pretty sure I'll have to cross my fingers and order the Rival in the morning (~10 hours) before I leave unless someone points out one that I've missed.
> 
> I also came across the Razer Deathadder 2013 but it seems the sensor is quite a mixed bag. Consumer protection is very good here in Finland so if the Rival starts falling apart from normal use during the warranty period I'm pretty sure I can send it in for a new one.


I was a long time Deathadder user (3.5G) and early this year i felt it was time to replace it and thought i should just upgrade to the 2013 edition but at the time i was hearing so much about the rival i decided to buy both the DA2013 and the Rival.. I found the other DA 2013 to be worse then the 3.5G the added side grips made it less grippy then the 3.5G the left and right button were way to sensitive... Rival is slightly bigger then the DA making it slightly more comfortable... as i said in the other post the gips and software are much better. Rival wont disappoint you!


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Whatever you guys do don't get the Naos 8200, that's the same crappy sensor as the Advance 2.


Avago 9800 did have problems when the first mice got released, however those problems have been fixed with a firmware update after a month.
Sensor Vs Laser debate is so overrated, the most important thing is how the mouse lays in your hand, overall build quality as well as the software.
I had DA2013 that has the best optical laser on the market and the sensor went to ****, am i suppose to think that optical sensors are crap?
Nope, and such generalizations and accusations without enough facts dont help anyone.


----------



## hza

"Best" optical sensor on the market: 3366 (Logitech G502)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Avago 9800 did have problems when the first mice got released, however those problems have been fixed with a firmware update after a month.
> Sensor Vs Laser debate is so overrated, the most important thing is how the mouse lays in your hand, overall build quality as well as the software.
> I had DA2013 that has the best optical laser on the market and the sensor went to ****, am i suppose to think that optical sensors are crap?
> Nope, and such generalizations and accusations without enough facts dont help anyone.


Then go ahead and name the exact SROM that fixed the 5+% speed-related accuracy variance in the 9500 and 9800.

Even our Logitech rep on here has confirmed there is 4 times less variance with even the old 3090 than the VCSEL architecture currently available in laser mice.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Then go ahead and name the exact SROM that fixed the 5+% speed-related accuracy variance in the 9500 and 9800.
> 
> Even our Logitech rep on here has confirmed there is 4 times less variance with even the old 3090 than the VCSEL architecture currently available in laser mice.


No way that i can remember the exact name, but i believe that it was at the beginning of 2012.


----------



## ctbear01

I am using a Zowie ec2 evo right now and I like it a lot. The lmb is double clicking randomly though so I want to buy another mouse while I RMA it.
Not a heavy gamer myself, but I do play Diablo 3 pretty frequently. I spend majority of my time just browsing though.
Other things that are important to me:

No acceleration
Thumb buttons
Good feedback on scroll wheel and lmb/rmb
Can be wired or wireless. I hate stiff cables though.
I feel like I don't even need a gaming mouse. Any suggestions?


----------



## zemco999

What's your grip style? finger/palm mix
What's your sensitivity? 400 in game, 2000 on desktop
What's your maximum budget? $45
Do you want additional buttons? DPI & 2 buttons near the thumb
What games do you play? csGO
Do you mind about prediction? Hate it
Other relevant information: Looking for something with no jitter, and a more accurate sensor than my g500s


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> How is the Rival compared to the IME3.0? I'm currently using the DA13 but I hate it, it doesn't feel anything like the IME3.0 and the rubber side grips are sometimes hard to grip when my hand sweats. I don't know if I should get a new IME3.0 since mine died or to get a Rival.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Raisum

*What's your grip style?* 75% Claw grip - 25% Palm grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 600 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* 60€
*Do you want additional buttons?* At least one side button.
*What games do you play?* Dota 2, CS:GO, Arma, War Thunder.
*Do you mind about prediction?* Do not like it.
*Other relevant information:* Been using only Logitech mice so I want to spice some things up. I have been looking on the SS Rival but my question is will it last longer than a year.


----------



## turnschuh

Wouldnt get the rival if your more of a claw than palm gripper. Also it doesnt really have greatest build quality, so it seems.
I would say zowie FK1, but its not possible to run it on 600dpi and the stiff huano switch buttons could be fatiguing after some time especially for dota or other games where you spam the mouse buttons a lot.

If you could add like 20€ to your budget, the Avior 7000 or the Kone Pure Military (if its not too small for you) would be also a good choice. Both can run 600 dpi AFAIK and have not the issue of stiff mouse buttons like the FK1.


----------



## beers

I use a Razer DeathAdder 2013 now. It's okay but the vertical arch is too high to be comfortable for me. Are there any comparable (or vastly superior) ones with a similar type of shape but a lot flatter vertically?



*What's your grip style?*
Somewhere between palm and fingertip. I want to have my palm kind of suspended in mid air naturally without having the mouse body ram against it.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Lowish I guess. I use 0.2 in CSGO with raw input on the current DA if that gives you any perspective.
*What's your maximum budget?*
Whatever, really. This one was like $20 in a bundle so not a big deal to jump ship.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't use anything other than the two thumbs and the normal buttons
*What games do you play?*
CSGO, BF3/4, pretty much any FPS.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No real preference

*Other relevant information:*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

If it's EXTREMELY heavy or EXTREMELY light I'm probably not game. Otherwise, hit me. Wireless would be a plus though.

The mamba was a little too tall. The G5 wasn't quite as bad but it was a little high, same with the performance MX. I am hoping for something really flat.


----------



## hza

I can't talk about performance because I didn't try it in games, but shape-wise G602 (wireless mouse) felt like the most comfortable mouse I ever put my hand on when I was in a MediaMarkt store about 2 months ago.


----------



## ChopChop

Which mousepad is better: Roccat taito,sense or the QcK+ ?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChopChop*
> 
> Which mousepad is better: Roccat taito,sense or the QcK+ ?


The surface on the Taito is the best I've used (3310 sensor) but the surface is already lifting from the base and I've had it less than 3 months.

I still have my QcK+ as a backup bad but it has a bit too much friction for me. I can't comment on the Sense.


----------



## Mareftw

*1. What's your grip style?* mixture of fingertip and palm
*2. What's your sensitivity?* 1800
*3. What's your maximum budget?* 70€, has to be available in europe
*4. Do you want additional buttons?* atleast 1, yes
*5. What games do you play?* MOBA, FPS, MMO, ARPG
*6. Do you mind about prediction?* yes
*7. Other relevant information:* right handed, currently using DA 3.5 (had it for 3 years and has started doing the random doubleclicks)

Kana v2, Sensei RAW, Rival, Zowie EC2 eVo, Razer Taipan, DA 2013 or any other?


----------



## keepokappa

Hello friends. I'll give you the specs I'm looking for. I'm currently using an IME 3.0 that I got from China, and though I have always loved this mouse it is a bit heavy. After checking out my brothers new DA 2013, I really liked the weight of it, though the right click was a bit heavy.

Since I mainly play Dota 2, I'm looking for a mouse with a really nice light switch for right click spamming (Omrons). I don't mind if the mouse has side buttons or not, though I think having 2 sidebuttons is a plus. Also, I would really like a mouse that is as light as, or even lighter (this is a big plus) then the Deathadder 2013. Obviously a mouse with good build quality and a flawless sensor. One other thing I'm looking for is 400 DPI functionality, since I'm used to that. I also use a cloth mousepad, if this matters.

I don't really mind the size/shape as long as it meets my other requirements, but keep in mind that the mice I have used and enjoyed in terms of the build itself are the IME 3 and the old Deathadder.

Sorry for being so needy guys! Thanks in advance

Also, I'm pretty sure I mainly use claw grip, and a small part of my palm usually rests on the right side of my mouse due to it's shape and largeness.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beers*
> 
> I use a Razer DeathAdder 2013 now. It's okay but the vertical arch is too high to be comfortable for me. Are there any comparable (or vastly superior) ones with a similar type of shape but a lot flatter vertically?
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Somewhere between palm and fingertip. I want to have my palm kind of suspended in mid air naturally without having the mouse body ram against it.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Lowish I guess. I use 0.2 in CSGO with raw input on the current DA if that gives you any perspective.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Whatever, really. This one was like $20 in a bundle so not a big deal to jump ship.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I don't use anything other than the two thumbs and the normal buttons
> *What games do you play?*
> CSGO, BF3/4, pretty much any FPS.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No real preference
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> If it's EXTREMELY heavy or EXTREMELY light I'm probably not game. Otherwise, hit me. Wireless would be a plus though.
> 
> The mamba was a little too tall. The G5 wasn't quite as bad but it was a little high, same with the performance MX. I am hoping for something really flat.


What is the size of your hand in cm?


----------



## ChopChop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> The surface on the Taito is the best I've used (3310 sensor) but the surface is already lifting from the base and I've had it less than 3 months.
> 
> I still have my QcK+ as a backup bad but it has a bit too much friction for me. I can't comment on the Sense.


It is lifting on the center or on the corners ?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChopChop*
> 
> It is lifting on the center or on the corners ?


Edges and corners.


----------



## optimisTGO

*What's your grip style?* About a 70/30 on a Claw/Palm ratio maybe
*What's your sensitivity?* 450 DPI right now (2.1 in game in CSGO, so lowish)
*What's your maximum budget?* Sky's the limit
*Do you want additional buttons?* I don't even really utilize side buttons as is, so it's not a huge deal either way
*What games do you play?* CSGO, tiny bit of dota2
*Do you mind about prediction?* Not a fan
*Other relevant information*: Currently use an AM-FG and like it overall but I think I want some more sensitive clicks maybe, as well as something a slight bit bigger. Used a DA2013 previously too which was on the other hand a bit too big. Was considering maybe something by Mionix or Roccat?


----------



## MiniMaster

1. What's your grip style? Palm
2. What's your sensitivity? 1100 DPI with sensitivity in game around 1%-25% depending on the game!
3. What's your maximum budget? $120
4. Do you want additional buttons? Front and Back Buttons on left side of mouse
5. What games do you play? Primarily FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction? Not too sure what that is.
7. Other relevant information: I have owned a Mamba for some time until it finally reached its end today. I loves the feel and the weight it had.

Thanks!!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *optimisTGO*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* About a 70/30 on a Claw/Palm ratio maybe
> *What's your sensitivity?* 450 DPI right now (2.1 in game in CSGO, so lowish)
> *What's your maximum budget?* Sky's the limit
> *Do you want additional buttons?* I don't even really utilize side buttons as is, so it's not a huge deal either way
> *What games do you play?* CSGO, tiny bit of dota2
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Not a fan
> *Other relevant information*: Currently use an AM-FG and like it overall but I think I want some more sensitive clicks maybe, as well as something a slight bit bigger. Used a DA2013 previously too which was on the other hand a bit too big. Was considering maybe something by Mionix or Roccat?


Mionix Avior 7000 should do well, it has more sensitive clicks but is a little heavier and larger. The FK1 is also larger but still light but it won't have too many CPI steps and it still has Huanos.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiniMaster*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 1100 DPI with sensitivity in game around 1%-25% depending on the game!
> 3. What's your maximum budget? $120
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Front and Back Buttons on left side of mouse
> 5. What games do you play? Primarily FPS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Not too sure what that is.
> 7. Other relevant information: I have owned a Mamba for some time until it finally reached its end today. I loves the feel and the weight it had.
> 
> Thanks!!


Mionix Naos 7000, SteelSeries Rival, Logitech G502


----------



## keepokappa

help me boys, you're my only hope


----------



## bluedevil

In the market for a possible mouse change.









What's your grip style? *Prefer Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *1600DPI*
What's your maximum budget? *$50 USD*
Do you want additional buttons? *Nope*
What games do you play? *FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? *No*
Other relevant information:
*Currently on a DA 3.5G now, looking for something similar. Nothing wrong with it, just want something new.







*


----------



## ChopChop

I see a lot of reviews that complain about the quality of the taito, they say it is really good, but the finish on the edges aren't that great
So I saw another contender, the Corepad C1, from what I have seen it seems like it is a little slower than the taito but it still has a smooth glide.

Any opinions on this ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keepokappa*
> 
> help me boys, you're my only hope


repost your earlier post?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedevil*
> 
> In the market for a possible mouse change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Prefer Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *1600DPI*
> What's your maximum budget? *$50 USD*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Nope*
> What games do you play? *FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No*
> Other relevant information:
> *Currently on a DA 3.5G now, looking for something similar. Nothing wrong with it, just want something new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Nothing actually comes to mind...just saying I read this but that budget is kind of strict for how much gaming mice go for nowadays, usually spending at least $60 is par for mice that are truly excellent.


----------



## bluedevil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> repost your earlier post?
> Nothing actually comes to mind...just saying I read this but that budget is kind of strict for how much gaming mice go for nowadays, usually spending at least $60 is par for mice that are truly excellent.


Suggest away. I am open.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedevil*
> 
> Suggest away. I am open.


Decent palm mice would be the Naos 7000 and Rival. The former I am impartial to because it is better built but also has the same sensor as the Rival. Both are excellent for FPS as long as you are using a cloth pad.


----------



## optimisTGO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedevil*
> 
> In the market for a possible mouse change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Prefer Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *1600DPI*
> What's your maximum budget? *$50 USD*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Nope*
> What games do you play? *FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No*
> Other relevant information:
> *Currently on a DA 3.5G now, looking for something similar. Nothing wrong with it, just want something new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


The only thing I could suggest in that range is trying out the Mionix Avior 7000. There's currently a bunch that are in the Amazon Warehouse Deals thing that are 40 dollars (regular like 60 or 70 I think?) and just have box damage or minor cosmetic damage. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00HGKOD9G/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

I actually grabbed one to try out. Awesome deal.

The one thing to note is it'll feel a fair bit different then a DA, but I guess you did say you want to try something different.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *optimisTGO*
> 
> The only thing I could suggest in that range is trying out the Mionix Avior 7000. There's currently a bunch that are in the Amazon Warehouse Deals thing that are 40 dollars (regular like 60 or 70 I think?) and just have box damage or minor cosmetic damage. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00HGKOD9G/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
> 
> I actually grabbed one to try out. Awesome deal.
> 
> The one thing to note is it'll feel a fair bit different then a DA, but I guess you did say you want to try something different.


The Avior is NOT primarily a palm mouse though, that's what the Naos was designed for.


----------



## optimisTGO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The Avior is NOT primarily a palm mouse though, that's what the Naos was designed for.


Yeah, I know, it's just all that came to mind as a great mouse available at that price at the moment, and he did say he also wanted something different.


----------



## bluedevil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *optimisTGO*
> 
> Yeah, I know, it's just all that came to mind as a great mouse available at that price at the moment, and he did say he also wanted something different.


What I really have been eyeing up is the CM Alcor....if it ever releases in the states....


----------



## ithehappy

Is there any website which virtually compares the size of all mice? Like there's one to compare size of mobile phones and all. Manually checking the dimensions are so damn time wasting.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedevil*
> 
> What I really have been eyeing up is the CM Alcor....if it ever releases in the states....


And hopefully with a 3310.


----------



## pack66

What's your grip style? Claw grip and some palm.
What's your sensitivity? Honestly, I don't know. I currently use a wireless Intellimouse 2.0
What's your maximum budget? No limit on budget, but I would prefer around $50 or less. If it's really worthy, I can spend more.
Do you want additional buttons? I'm currently fine with the buttons on the IME 2. 0 (5), but don't mind more as long as it's not excessive.
What games do you play? World of Tanks, ME3, some FPS but not as much as I used to play. Mainly WoT now.
Do you mind about prediction? Don't know.
Other relevant information: My wireless Intellimouse 2.0 is finely giving up the ghost after several years. Bought it on sale with a wireless keyboard years ago while on red tag sale at Frys. I ditched the keyboard early on (no good for WoW, kept dropping out), but I've enjoyed not having a wire and the battery life isn't too bad. Unfortunately, I'm getting double clicking now, so it's time to move on. I thought I was a palm gripper, but it turns out I claw grip more than I thought. I like the fit and feel of the G700s, but I'm reading that the sensor is awful. The G602 is interesting, but I'm afraid the amount of buttons on the side would just get in the way.
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc: Wireless would be nice, but not mandatory. A good bang for the buck mouse would be nice, but I don't mind spending if it's warranted. Thanks in advance for the help.

Also I have a few friends who've recommended the MC SAITE MC-086, but I don't want to wait two weeks.


----------



## babbalucio

Message number 1, first I have to say "hi"

*What's your grip style?*
Palm when relaxed, claw while playing

*What's your sensitivity?*
25-30cm/360°, I like playing on big surfaces like qck+ or talent

*What's your maximum budget?*
around 100$ (80€)

*Do you want additional buttons?*
I can't live without the two buttons for the thumb, and I use a lot the middle button...so I need a very good mouse wheel

*What games do you play?*
not a moba fan, I play everything else, a lot of fps

_*Do you mind about prediction?*_
Don't like prediction, I've always used no-prediction mouses

_*Other relevant informations*_
I'm right handed, medium size hand
In the past I've used a copperhead, two deathadders, now I'm using a kana v2 but don't like the only one button on each side and the low quality rubber on the scroll wheel (maybe because the high temperatures of summer the rubber became loose and all sticky)

A G502? I see too many complaints about the wheel...maybe it's not a good idea
Corsair M45? Mionix Naos/Avior 7000? Zowie (which one)?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pack66*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw grip and some palm.
> What's your sensitivity? Honestly, I don't know. I currently use a wireless Intellimouse 2.0
> What's your maximum budget? No limit on budget, but I would prefer around $50 or less. If it's really worthy, I can spend more.
> Do you want additional buttons? I'm currently fine with the buttons on the IME 2. 0 (5), but don't mind more as long as it's not excessive.
> What games do you play? World of Tanks, ME3, some FPS but not as much as I used to play. Mainly WoT now.
> Do you mind about prediction? Don't know.
> Other relevant information: My wireless Intellimouse 2.0 is finely giving up the ghost after several years. Bought it on sale with a wireless keyboard years ago while on red tag sale at Frys. I ditched the keyboard early on (no good for WoW, kept dropping out), but I've enjoyed not having a wire and the battery life isn't too bad. Unfortunately, I'm getting double clicking now, so it's time to move on. I thought I was a palm gripper, but it turns out I claw grip more than I thought. I like the fit and feel of the G700s, but I'm reading that the sensor is awful. The G602 is interesting, but I'm afraid the amount of buttons on the side would just get in the way.
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc: Wireless would be nice, but not mandatory. A good bang for the buck mouse would be nice, but I don't mind spending if it's warranted. Thanks in advance for the help.
> 
> Also I have a few friends who've recommended the MC SAITE MC-086, but I don't want to wait two weeks.


A friend of mine uses his G602 even for 1.6 and he gets a lot of frags with it. If you're not a super low sensitivity user, it should do just fine. Besides I put my hand on it in a computer store some time ago. I have to admit it felt extremely comfortable, probably even more than my new G502.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babbalucio*
> 
> Message number 1, first I have to say "hi"
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm when relaxed, claw while playing
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 25-30cm/360°, I like playing on big surfaces like qck+ or talent
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> around 100$ (80€)
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I can't live without the two buttons for the thumb, and I use a lot the middle button...so I need a very good mouse wheel
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> not a moba fan, I play everything else, a lot of fps
> 
> _*Do you mind about prediction?*_
> Don't like prediction, I've always used no-prediction mouses
> 
> _*Other relevant informations*_
> I'm right handed, medium size hand
> In the past I've used a copperhead, two deathadders, now I'm using a kana v2 but don't like the only one button on each side and the low quality rubber on the scroll wheel (maybe because the high temperatures of summer the rubber became loose and all sticky)
> 
> A G502? I see too many complaints about the wheel...maybe it's not a good idea
> Corsair M45? Mionix Naos/Avior 7000? Zowie (which one)?


I know the complain posts about the G502's wheel. I don't see any issues with it. It doesn't rattle. It's not really slippery except when you put almost no presure to use it. I have it for just 2 days. I couldn't really find anything I dislike about it. Just size of the mouse could be a little bigger for *my* taste.


----------



## ajx

Which one to buy? since i have some weird issue with my current mice, its wireless (G700) i know its bad







but lately it seems like sensor stuck during an half of second
Ideally i would pick another Logitech mice but desire to change and switch to another mice brand








I read nice guide about superior sensor, i would try again optical mice such as Mionix Avior 7000, Zowie, FK1 or EC1/EC2, DeathAdder, M45
Zowie FK1 / EC1 / EC2 / Razer DeathAdder look all good with brilliant design but it has only 2 buttons which does matter to me.
I would like mice with more buttons (more than 2 poor side buttons, 3/4 would be enough though)
Mionix Avior looks average (its personal though) but its apparently one of the best mice on the market, it has 4 programmable buttons.
Good point however its ambidextrous mice (i am twarted left hander but hate using theses ambidextrous mouses)
M45 it has everything, right handed mice, 4 buttons, i like its shape and design
But what about its sensor and quality overall?

anny other mice suggestion would be nice as well

By the way i m using hard pad (Razer Destructor 2, dunno if optical mice does work on it)

thanks


----------



## Tattered

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Using 1k DPI with no problem right now
What's your maximum budget? ~100$ maybe a bit more
Do you want additional buttons? YES! I play LOL and I would like more to use in game!
What games do you play? League of Legends
Do you mind about prediction? Currently using low acceleration on set point without issue.
Other relevant information: I freaking LOVE logitech's easily toggled free-spinning mode and would have a hard time losing it switching from my M500. I dislike the placement of the M500's forward button and I have never used it once. (my thumb cannot reach past the "back" button)


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tattered*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Using 1k DPI with no problem right now
> What's your maximum budget? ~100$ maybe a bit more
> Do you want additional buttons? YES! I play LOL and I would like more to use in game!
> What games do you play? League of Legends
> Do you mind about prediction? Currently using low acceleration on set point without issue.
> Other relevant information: I freaking LOVE logitech's easily toggled free-spinning mode and would have a hard time losing it switching from my M500. I dislike the placement of the M500's forward button and I have never used it once. (my thumb cannot reach past the "back" button)


You must have very small hands(?) Maybe G502. I also play lol and other games with it. It's overall very comfortable in my opinion and it has a free-spin mode mwheel. If you'll reach the forward button, I can't tell you. I would reach it on your M500.


----------



## pack66

@hva, thanks for the reply. I really like the feel of the G700s, is there a mouse that comes close to that size/shape with a decent sensor?


----------



## babbalucio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I know the complain posts about the G502's wheel. I don't see any issues with it. It doesn't rattle. It's not really slippery except when you put almost no presure to use it. I have it for just 2 days. I couldn't really find anything I dislike about it. Just size of the mouse could be a little bigger for *my* taste.


Thanks for your feedback, do you use a lot middle clicking? how is the middle click compared to other mices?
Rattles are not my biggest fear, I'm more perplexed about the steps precision and the middle clicking stiffness that could end up scrolling instead of clicking from time to time

I pretty sure one of the following will be my next mouse: G502, Corsair M45, Avior/Naos 7200, Zowies.
I can't compare the models I'm looking at, so I'm asking if someone knows which model has the better wheel/middle click button, that could help my final decision a lot.
Thanks.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pack66*
> 
> @hva, thanks for the reply. I really like the feel of the G700s, is there a mouse that comes close to that size/shape with a decent sensor?


I can only say that G602 felt more comfortable than G700. Played at a friend's place with G700 (but only some Diablo 3).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babbalucio*
> 
> Thanks for your feedback, do you use a lot middle clicking? how is the middle click compared to other mices?
> Rattles are not my biggest fear, I'm more perplexed about the steps precision and the middle clicking stiffness that could end up scrolling instead of clicking from time to time
> 
> I pretty sure one of the following will be my next mouse: G502, Corsair M45, Avior/Naos 7200, Zowies.
> I can't compare the models I'm looking at, so I'm asking if someone knows which model has the better wheel/middle click button, that could help my final decision a lot.
> Thanks.


Actually I don't use middle click in almost no games (therefore I bound that sniper button to "mouse3/middle click", great use for me) except when I "have to". However, tested it a little bit and can't imagine to end up scrolling instead of clicking it.


----------



## narandza

What's your grip style? fingertip.
What's your sensitivity? 800-1600 dpi
What's your maximum budget? 80euros
Do you want additional buttons? theyre a +, not a necessity.
What games do you play? dota2 pro level
Do you mind about prediction? no angle snapping no acceleration no prediction.
Other relevant information: ambidextrous shape or shape of logitech m705(the perfect ergonomic shape for me)
weight doesnt matter as long as its rapidly moveable for short distances
cord that doesnt mess up and pull my mouse to one side, cord that doesnt twingle and prevent clean movement.
omron buttons
optical.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajx*
> 
> Which one to buy? since i have some weird issue with my current mice, its wireless (G700) i know its bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but lately it seems like sensor stuck during an half of second
> Ideally i would pick another Logitech mice but desire to change and switch to another mice brand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read nice guide about superior sensor, i would try again optical mice such as Mionix Avior 7000, Zowie, FK1 or EC1/EC2, DeathAdder, M45
> Zowie FK1 / EC1 / EC2 / Razer DeathAdder look all good with brilliant design but it has only 2 buttons which does matter to me.
> I would like mice with more buttons (more than 2 poor side buttons, 3/4 would be enough though)
> Mionix Avior looks average (its personal though) but its apparently one of the best mice on the market, it has 4 programmable buttons.
> Good point however its ambidextrous mice (i am twarted left hander but hate using theses ambidextrous mouses)
> M45 it has everything, right handed mice, 4 buttons, i like its shape and design
> But what about its sensor and quality overall?
> 
> anny other mice suggestion would be nice as well
> 
> By the way i m using hard pad (Razer Destructor 2, dunno if optical mice does work on it)
> 
> thanks


Could also try the Kone Pure Military. The M45 uses exactly the same sensor as the Avior, FK1, and KPM, but some say the M45 implementation of the 3310 is laggier, I can't confirm this though.


----------



## ajx

I am going to eliminate Kone Pure (i prefer other mouse design such as Zowie), M45 (cant take risk about probable lag of sensor), DeathAdder (Synapse does lag on my own computer)
Now its between FK1 /EC1/EC2 and Avior 7000
Terrible decision to make


----------



## naemsae

What's your grip style? Claw/fingertip grip
What's your sensitivity? 800dpi
What's your maximum budget? $80
Do you want additional buttons? doesn't matter
What games do you play? League of Legends(competitive level), osu!, csgo
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction or acceleration please
Other relevant information: Prefer a lighter mouse, with an extremely good and consistent sensor. Kind of interested in the Zowie FK 1 but not sure if I'll like the huanos.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naemsae*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw/fingertip grip
> What's your sensitivity? 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget? $80
> Do you want additional buttons? doesn't matter
> What games do you play? League of Legends(competitive level), osu!, csgo
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction or acceleration please
> Other relevant information: Prefer a lighter mouse, with an extremely good and consistent sensor. Kind of interested in the Zowie FK 1 but not sure if I'll like the huanos.


Not for LoL you probably won't like the Huanos. Of course there's always the Avior 7000


----------



## eysen

What's your grip style? This is how i grip my SS Sensei CoD Black Ops II actually (The cheaper of sensei raw when i bought it) :





What's your sensitivity? 400 or 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? 90$
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons minimum
What games do you play? CS:GO, League of Legends
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction or something like that, raw sensor
Other relevant information: Low LOD, low weight, mate finish, omrons buttons, optical sensor. I really love the shape and low weight of this mouse : http://www.trust.com/en/all-products/15862-carve-usb-optical-mouse--black?from={2547A919-943F-4643-8F54-01CFDA4FFBC8}#Group:MICE+from:{2547A919-943F-4643-8F54-01CFDA4FFBC8}^25 but no side buttons and very bad sensor[/B]


----------



## naemsae

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not for LoL you probably won't like the Huanos. Of course there's always the Avior 7000


What do you think would be easier to control and be more consistent for LoL/OSU. Logitech G100s or the Mionix


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eysen*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? This is how i grip my SS Sensei CoD Black Ops II actually (The cheaper of sensei raw when i bought it) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your sensitivity? 400 or 800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? 90$
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons minimum
> What games do you play? CS:GO, League of Legends
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction or something like that, raw sensor
> Other relevant information: Low LOD, low weight, mate finish, omrons buttons, optical sensor. I really love the shape and low weight of this mouse : http://www.trust.com/en/all-products/15862-carve-usb-optical-mouse--black?from={2547A919-943F-4643-8F54-01CFDA4FFBC8}#Group:MICE+from:{2547A919-943F-4643-8F54-01CFDA4FFBC8}^25 but no side buttons and very bad sensor[/B]


If you must have Omrons, then Avior 7000 or G402. The FK1 is perfect for you except for the fact that it has Huanos.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naemsae*
> 
> What do you think would be easier to control and be more consistent for LoL/OSU. Logitech G100s or the Mionix


G100s for those games, but just keep in mind the max PCS won't be anywhere near as high as the Mionix.


----------



## SuDDi

Hi, I'd appreciate some input on buying a new mouse, as I've had some trouble finding a suitable replacement for my Deathadder Respawn.
I think I will forego the standard list form as I feel it will be easier to get my point across in running text.

Not knowing much of mice I tried my friends Taipan and Naga 2014 for some comparison, and to me they both suffered from unbearable input lag and inconsistent tracking. Now I've educated myself somewhat and know what type of sensors I should be looking for but in the end I don't feel like there are many good options for me. So a quick rundown of my situation

I really only play Starcraft 2, meaning continuous fast cursor movement all over the screen.
I'm playing with my arm/forearm stationary, with a pivot point at the base of my hand and using a claw or palm/claw hybrid grip. I am open to differing shapes or grips as finger/hand/wrist pains have been an issue for me.
The thing that really limits my search is the fact that I currently rely on the mouse having settings for separate DPI/sensitivity for the X- and Y-axis (I'm using 1200/2100 X/Y).
I also make great use of both side buttons. More would be useful, but a reduction would take some significant relearning and hotkey changes. I want to activate them by tilting my thumb one way or another, as opposed to lifting it or changing grip. I would also like them to offer little resistance. I remember testing the Kana v2 a while back and quickly found my hand aching because I needed to squeeze the whole mouse from both sides to activate the stiff side button.
Other things to add:

The lighter the mouse is the better
Scroll wheel and LOD is unimportant
I have dry hands
I use a cloth mousepad
Budget is unimportant
Most recently I've tried the Naos and Avior 7000. Both good products but neither had a shape I prefer over my Deathadder and the slippery coating really bothered me. Although I will give my Naos some more time before dismissing it but right now I feel resigned to just pick up a Deathadder 2013. So... any suggestions? Should I maybe just disregard some of my preferences and spend some time adapting to something completely diffrent? And in that case - what?


----------



## eysen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you must have Omrons, then Avior 7000 or G402. The FK1 is perfect for you except for the fact that it has Huanos.
> G100s for those games, but just keep in mind the max PCS won't be anywhere near as high as the Mionix.


Thank you for your reply. But today, I saw the pictures of the new Mionix mouse and this mouse seems perfect for me with this shape. So, i think waiting for it.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuDDi*
> 
> Hi, I'd appreciate some input on buying a new mouse, as I've had some trouble finding a suitable replacement for my Deathadder Respawn.
> I think I will forego the standard list form as I feel it will be easier to get my point across in running text.
> 
> Not knowing much of mice I tried my friends Taipan and Naga 2014 for some comparison, and to me they both suffered from unbearable input lag and inconsistent tracking. Now I've educated myself somewhat and know what type of sensors I should be looking for but in the end I don't feel like there are many good options for me. So a quick rundown of my situation
> 
> I really only play Starcraft 2, meaning continuous fast cursor movement all over the screen.
> I'm playing with my arm/forearm stationary, with a pivot point at the base of my hand and using a claw or palm/claw hybrid grip. I am open to differing shapes or grips as finger/hand/wrist pains have been an issue for me.
> The thing that really limits my search is the fact that I currently rely on the mouse having settings for separate DPI/sensitivity for the X- and Y-axis (I'm using 1200/2100 X/Y).
> I also make great use of both side buttons. More would be useful, but a reduction would take some significant relearning and hotkey changes. I want to activate them by tilting my thumb one way or another, as opposed to lifting it or changing grip. I would also like them to offer little resistance. I remember testing the Kana v2 a while back and quickly found my hand aching because I needed to squeeze the whole mouse from both sides to activate the stiff side button.
> Other things to add:
> 
> The lighter the mouse is the better
> Scroll wheel and LOD is unimportant
> I have dry hands
> I use a cloth mousepad
> Budget is unimportant
> Most recently I've tried the Naos and Avior 7000. Both good products but neither had a shape I prefer over my Deathadder and the slippery coating really bothered me. Although I will give my Naos some more time before dismissing it but right now I feel resigned to just pick up a Deathadder 2013. So... any suggestions? Should I maybe just disregard some of my preferences and spend some time adapting to something completely diffrent? And in that case - what?


I'd say G502 could suit your hand, but it's a heavier mouse (121 or so). So, you could pick another DA 3.5G, if it's still available in your region.


----------



## mnOne

What's your grip style? Fingertip grip, here's a picture


What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget? 80 Euros
Do you want additional buttons? Only 2-3
What games do you play? LoL, Quake Live
Do you mind about prediction? Haven't tried the difference, but I would prefer for the mouse movement to be as exact as possible - so yes, I guess, I do mind.
Other relevant information:
As you can see, I have HUGE hands, so I need a beefy mouse. Also enough space to rest my pinky and ring finger on the mouse - yet short enough that I can still fingertip grip it comfortably. I prefer right-handed, ergonomic mice. And if possble, I would like a minimalist design. Also, I want a well-crafted mouse that will last me a long time.
All that being said, here are my choices so far:

Mionix Naos 7000 - I am a little concerned that it it too long to be fingertip'ed comfortably
Func MS-3 Rev 2 - not sure about the sensor
Steelseries Rival - haven't tried if I have enough space for my pinky and ring finger
Madcatz RAT 7 - not sure about the sensor and overall quality, plus the design is anything but minimalist
Zowie EC1 eVo - tried it, would like to have more space for pinky and ring finger
Razer Ouroboros - pricey, and I am still not sure if I would like the ergonomics, plus the design kind of puts me off
The Razer Naga felt oddly comfortably but my hatred for the heap of thumb-buttons borders on the irrational.


----------



## SuDDi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I'd say G502 could suit your hand, but it's a heavier mouse (121 or so). So, you could pick another DA 3.5G, if it's still available in your region.


Yea, I've been considering the G502 as well. But what has stopped me is the lack of separate X/Y DPI. I imagine I could do without it if I switched to a fingertip grip; seeing as it would allow for more vertical movement. But neither the shape nor weight of the G502 seems like it would be good for that.

I just don't understand why this supposedly so advanced sensor won't let me do this when it's available on G400(S). Even my old MX518 can do it! Do you think it's a limitation with the sensor, or has it simply been deemed unimportant?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuDDi*
> 
> Yea, I've been considering the G502 as well. But what has stopped me is the lack of separate X/Y DPI. I imagine I could do without it if I switched to a fingertip grip; seeing as it would allow for more vertical movement. But neither the shape nor weight of the G502 seems like it would be good for that.
> 
> I just don't understand why this supposedly so advanced sensor won't let me do this when it's available on G400(S). Even my old MX518 can do it! Do you think it's a limitation with the sensor, or has it simply been deemed unimportant?


I think most people don't need different dpi, but I don't know why 502 can't do that.


----------



## f0rld

I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested 1.1a, sensei, kana, kinzu and zowie FK but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> I just found out that the mouse I am currently using (zowie am) isn't sold anymore in my country so I would like to know before my mouse dies what kind of mice are very similar to zowie am shape-wise? I have tested 1.1a, sensei, kana, kinzu and zowie FK but they didn't fit my hand as well as zowie am did. And it is mandatory for me that the mouse I am going to buy after zowie am has full rubber coating because I find that surface the most suitable for me.


Worst case scenario I'm pretty sure you can just swap pcbs between the AM, FK, and FK1.


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Worst case scenario I'm pretty sure you can just swap pcbs between the AM, FK, and FK1.


I have already tested the earlier version of FK and it was big for me so I can tell you that FK1 won't be my go to choice. However I will keep looking for websites that sell zowie AM because I am more or less forced to do that







. Thanks anyway.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> I have already tested the earlier version of FK and it was big for me so I can tell you that FK1 won't be my go to choice. However I will keep looking for websites that sell zowie AM because I am more or less forced to do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Thanks anyway.


I mean, if the switches or sensor die in your AM you can put a FK pcb in to the shell.

it worked for popups


----------



## Neo-ST

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Hello,

I'm looking for a mouse to replace my tired G5.

1. Fingertip / Claw
2. "Medium" on its fast dpi switch, don't know how much is that. Probably around 1000.
3. Doesn't matter
4. No, the less clutter the better
5. FPS, Battlefield 3 mostly
6. What's that? I don't want that, the simpler the better
7. I'm right-handed only
Weight: not too light. Even better if you can tune it.
Wireless: heck no.
Onboard memory: not important, I don't use macros and stuff like that.
Size: more than 130mm in length, I got large hands

Needs to have: fast DPI switch *with* indicator, good quality, nice grip.

Mustn't have:
- that stupid sniper button or whatever it's called
- too many buttons that get in a way during competitive play

Mustn't: feel cheap, light. I'm not intending to change it soon, so it needs to be good.

If you can suggest something that satisfies the above criteria, I'd be eternally grateful.

Thanks!


----------



## DTrinh09

1. What's your grip style?
*Claw/palm hybrid. More on the claw side.*

2. What's your sensitivity? *800 cpi*

3. What's your maximum budget? *~$60*

4. Do you want additional buttons? *Mouse 4, Mouse 5, Side-to-side scroll wheel (optional), DPI buttons (optional)*

5. What games do you play? *Mostly League of Legends right now. Casual MMORPG sometimes.*

6. Do you mind about prediction? *I do not want prediction.*

7. Other relevant information: *I've been using the CM Storm Spawn for almost 3 years. Its coating is wearing off and the scroll wheel feels very gunky.*

8. Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.
*I want low LOD, 1-2 CD. Prefer ergonomic shape for right hands; don't think I'd like ambidextrous. Prefer lighter mouse (coming from the Spawn), but I don't mind a little extra weight. My hand length is 17.2 cm; my hand width is 21 cm. Comfort + Performance >>> Looks/LEDs

Some mice I've been looking at are:
- Mionix Naos 7000
- Corsair Raptor M45*


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnOne*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip grip, here's a picture
> 
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget? 80 Euros
> Do you want additional buttons? Only 2-3
> What games do you play? LoL, Quake Live
> Do you mind about prediction? Haven't tried the difference, but I would prefer for the mouse movement to be as exact as possible - so yes, I guess, I do mind.
> Other relevant information:
> As you can see, I have HUGE hands, so I need a beefy mouse. Also enough space to rest my pinky and ring finger on the mouse - yet short enough that I can still fingertip grip it comfortably. I prefer right-handed, ergonomic mice. And if possble, I would like a minimalist design. Also, I want a well-crafted mouse that will last me a long time.
> All that being said, here are my choices so far:
> 
> Mionix Naos 7000 - I am a little concerned that it it too long to be fingertip'ed comfortably
> Func MS-3 Rev 2 - not sure about the sensor
> Steelseries Rival - haven't tried if I have enough space for my pinky and ring finger
> Madcatz RAT 7 - not sure about the sensor and overall quality, plus the design is anything but minimalist
> Zowie EC1 eVo - tried it, would like to have more space for pinky and ring finger
> Razer Ouroboros - pricey, and I am still not sure if I would like the ergonomics, plus the design kind of puts me off
> The Razer Naga felt oddly comfortably but my hatred for the heap of thumb-buttons borders on the irrational.


You might actually want to try the Avior 7000 even though you prefer ergonomic mice. I've found it has worked really well with my fingertip grip and I also have pretty big hands.


----------



## Krauger

*What's your grip style?*
Palm.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Low, 800 DPI / 1.0 sensitivity in CS:GO.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Just back/forward.
*What games do you play?*
Mostly CS:GO, sometimes LoL/Dota.
*Other relevant information:*
I'm using Logitech G400 right now, but I would like something with more grip because my hand tends to get sweaty. I think I have quite small hands (~18 cm) so I'm not sure if some of the bigger mice will fit. I can palm G400 comfortably but I feel the need to re-adjust my grip too often. I have considered Deathadder/SS Rival or some Zowie/Mionix mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krauger*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Low, 800 DPI / 1.0 sensitivity in CS:GO.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Just back/forward.
> *What games do you play?*
> Mostly CS:GO, sometimes LoL/Dota.
> *Other relevant information:*
> I'm using Logitech G400 right now, but I would like something with more grip because my hand tends to get sweaty. I think I have quite small hands (~18 cm) so I'm not sure if some of the bigger mice will fit. I can palm G400 comfortably but I feel the need to re-adjust my grip too often. I have considered Deathadder/SS Rival or some Zowie/Mionix mouse.


Mionix Naos 7000 might fit you actually. Rival will likely be too big if you don't have large hands.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a mouse to replace my tired G5.
> 
> 1. Fingertip / Claw
> 2. "Medium" on its fast dpi switch, don't know how much is that. Probably around 1000.
> 3. Doesn't matter
> 4. No, the less clutter the better
> 5. FPS, Battlefield 3 mostly
> 6. What's that? I don't want that, the simpler the better
> 7. I'm right-handed only
> Weight: not too light. Even better if you can tune it.
> Wireless: heck no.
> Onboard memory: not important, I don't use macros and stuff like that.
> Size: more than 130mm in length, I got large hands
> 
> Needs to have: fast DPI switch *with* indicator, good quality, nice grip.
> 
> Mustn't have:
> - that stupid sniper button or whatever it's called
> - too many buttons that get in a way during competitive play
> 
> Mustn't: feel cheap, light. I'm not intending to change it soon, so it needs to be good.
> 
> If you can suggest something that satisfies the above criteria, I'd be eternally grateful.
> 
> Thanks!


The only thing that comes to mind is again CM Advance 2 it has just about everything you want.
Its big, heavy, has DPI switch with the indicator, fantastic grip etc.
However the rubberized coating will start to peel off after 6 months, so you should take a note of that.
I had that mouse for about 10 days and had to return it to the store due to squeaky right click, went for DA2013, and now after the DA sensor is a goner i am getting back to Advance 2.
Before that I had Cm Z3RO-G, which has the same design as Advance 2 only a different sensor, I think i played around 800 hours in Bf3 with that mouse








When it comes to ergonomy, there is not a better mouse on the market , in my opinion.
I will be getting CM Advance 2 by the end of the week, so if you want I can give you some further insights.
Bear in mind that I use palm grip while gaming, and fingertip grip while i am on the desktop.


----------



## Neo-ST

Thanks for the answer.
So which one do you think is better, Zero-G or Advance 2 ?


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> Thanks for the answer.
> So which one do you think is better, Zero-G or Advance 2 ?


They are basically the same mouse with a different sensor.
Zero-G has Twin Eye sensor while Advance 2 uses Avago 9800 which is overall a better sensor.
Zero-G is cheaper and it is definitely worth the money but if you say that the money is no problem better go with Advance 2 or wait till my replacement arrives so I can tell you a bit more.
When it comes to sensors i have an opinion that majority of players would disagree.
Its not that important what sensor the mouse has (as long as it isnt some junk), the most important thing is ergonomy and how the mouse fits in your hand.
Even if you have the mouse with the so called "best optical sensor", you might not have a good gameplay experience simply because it doesn't fit in your hand.
I had DA 2013 for 9 months and I couldnt make the most of it (design is for people with the average hand, thumb buttons are wrongly placed etc).
I understand why people like it, but it just wasn't my cup of tea.
As I like to say, choosing and recommending different types of mice is like choosing and recommending different types of underwear, they are not made for everyone









PS

Sta god da odaberes javi kako si prosao.


----------



## metal571

Just keep in mind the 9800 suffers from the same inconsistent acceleration issues that the 9500 had and always will suffer from as it is based off of the same package. A more accurate term would be that those two sensors have a higher "speed-related tracking variance" than any currently available optical package. You can minimize the variance by using the mouse on a hard mat, but to my knowledge it will still be less accurate than an optical on cloth.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Just keep in mind the 9800 suffers from the same inconsistent acceleration issues that the 9500 had and always will suffer from as it is based off of the same package. A more accurate term would be that those two sensors have a higher "speed-related tracking variance" than any currently available optical package. You can minimize the variance by using the mouse on a hard mat, but to my knowledge it will still be less accurate than an optical on cloth.


Logitech released a new video that brings this flaw up with the laser sensors.Cpate mentions trying to get people to describe the flaw properly but hes still calling it sensor acceleration instead of speed related tracking variance.


----------



## turnschuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eysen*
> 
> Thank you for your reply. But today, I saw the pictures of the new Mionix mouse and this mouse seems perfect for me with this shape. So, i think waiting for it.


Pictures showing the full mouse?
Want to see!^^

EDIT: oh, just saw that the "new mionix mouse" thread got some of them.

Ignore my post =)


----------



## Neo-ST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> PS
> 
> Sta god da odaberes javi kako si prosao.











Budem, tnx.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Just keep in mind the 9800 suffers from the same inconsistent acceleration issues that the 9500 had and always will suffer from as it is based off of the same package. A more accurate term would be that those two sensors have a higher "speed-related tracking variance" than any currently available optical package. You can minimize the variance by using the mouse on a hard mat, but to my knowledge it will still be less accurate than an optical on cloth.


Got it, thanks


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Logitech released a new video that brings this flaw up with the laser sensors.Cpate mentions trying to get people to describe the flaw properly but hes still calling it sensor acceleration instead of speed related tracking variance.


Oh my god. Nice job @CPate, finally I have a video I can show my friends who continue to doubt this is true. I really like the direction Logitech is going with the G line. Loving it.


----------



## samehada

Hi!
I have always used a a4tech A6-60D GLaser.



It is small but it is very comfortable.
I would like to change to something more gamer with some more button.

*1.Grip style*
- Hybrid finger/palm grip. In some situations , use claw grip.

*2.Sensitivity*
-I've always played with a mouse desktop, so I guess my sensitivity is 800 dpi.

*3.Maximum budget*
- 80$ ~

*4.Additional buttons*
- Minimun 1

*5.games*
- Mainly LoL, CSS, CS:GO, WoW(I recently canceled subscription xd).

*6.Do you mind about prediction?*
- I can tolerate it because I've always played with prediction.

*7.Other relevant information:*
- I tried the sensei in a store and I will perfect shape. Anything smaller is fine too me.
- Use 1920x1080
-I would also like to have little or no acceleration.
-It would be a problem getting used to a mouse without acceleration?
-I do not like razer!


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Cpate mentions trying to get people to describe the flaw properly but hes still calling it sensor acceleration instead of speed related tracking variance.


The video needed to be short (it's still too long to keep people from giving up on it) and adding more terminology was not feasible. It was better to go with words people commonly understand so viewers can search against them.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Logitech released a new video that brings this flaw up with the laser sensors.Cpate mentions trying to get people to describe the flaw properly but hes still calling it sensor acceleration instead of speed related tracking variance.


Using marketing materials from other companies is not really a good way to make a point in a discussion.
I have never seen such problems with laser sensors, matter of fact i have seen them with the optical ones (and you dont see me *****ing about it)
If I remember correctly 2 biggest Bf3 youtubers (Levelcap and Xfactor) dropped DA and switched to ROCCAT Kone XTD Max (I believe it's Avago 9800) simply because they has a better control over the mouse.
For the last couple of years they have tried out different types of mice (they always made a video about it) and they say that this one does the job best.










However I am no fan of Roccat simply because they give only 1 year of warranty.


----------



## Neo-ST

To be honest, I played the heck out of BFBC2, BF3 and now BF4 (I've got over 2000hrs in them) with my old G5 and never had any problems with anything.
Only when I came to these forums I realized there was laser vs. optical debate and then realized my G5 has laser sensor.
Now, I don't know how things have changed recently with sensors, but personally, I never noticed anything wrong with my G5.


----------



## CPate

Really it's just shorthand for a trait with one family of laser-illuminated optical sensors. It has been shorthanded to LASER = BAD because the internet has a short attention span.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> To be honest, I played the heck out of BFBC2, BF3 and now BF4 (I've got over 2000hrs in them) with my old G5 and never had any problems with anything.
> Only when I came to these forums I realized there was laser vs. optical debate and then realized my G5 has laser sensor.
> Now, I don't know how things have changed recently with sensors, but personally, I never noticed anything wrong with my G5.


Just out of pure curiosity, are you by any chance a heli gunner?
Since you want DPI profile switch on the mouse, I think that may be the case.









On topic:

Try and figure out which ergonomic mouse design suits you best, that's No.1 in my book.
Then start thinking about Optical vs Laser conundrum.


----------



## Neo-ST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Really it's just shorthand for a trait with one family of laser-illuminated optical sensors. It has been shorthanded to LASER = BAD because the internet has a short attention span.


I thought so.
And which family is "bad" ?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Just out of pure curiosity, are you by any chance a heli gunner?
> Since you want DPI profile switch on the mouse, I think that may be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On topic:
> 
> Try and figure out which ergonomic mouse design suits you best, that's No.1 in my book.
> Then start thinking about Optical vs Laser conundrum.


Yep, I'm 90% gunner although I used to be a pilot before.
DPI switch is something I use for vehicles only, since BF has different turn rates for being a soldier vs. being in a tank, etc.

I'd love to test all the mice, but neither do I have time for that, neither is there a great coverage of different makes/models in my town.
That's why I ask here. Once I decide on one, I'll have to order it and pray to god it's good


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> I thought so.
> And which family is "bad" ?


According to them they are all BAD.
Quote:


> Yep, I'm 90% gunner although I used to be a pilot before.
> DPI switch is something I use for vehicles only, since BF has different turn rates for being a soldier vs. being in a tank, etc.


Thought so, I play with some Croats (Megatron, Rocky etc) although i play mostly with ground vehicles


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> To be honest, I played the heck out of BFBC2, BF3 and now BF4 (I've got over 2000hrs in them) with my old G5 and never had any problems with anything.
> Only when I came to these forums I realized there was laser vs. optical debate and then realized my G5 has laser sensor.
> Now, I don't know how things have changed recently with sensors, but personally, I never noticed anything wrong with my G5.


The G5 has the older 6010 sensor, which should be similar to the Coppherhead's laser sensor, but those are not the same as the 9500 and 9800 sensors having the more inconsistent tracking.


----------



## Greutel

Hello guys, i need a new mouse too.
I've read a lot, especially at your forums but now i need some active help to make a decision.
I used a Zowie ec1 evo for two weeks and i liked it very much. I only played at its 450cpi setting and i loved its performance overall.
But the shape of the mouse was too high so i got an ache at the back of my hand and i had to give it away

1. What's your grip style? Palm Grip
2. What's your sensitivity? Low sens, 400 - 500 dpi
3. What's your maximum budget? 80€
4. Do you want additional buttons? not neccesary
5. What games do you play? Battlefield 3, Quake, TF2 and some casual dota 2 and LoL
6. Do you mind about prediction? Yes, since i had the EC1 evo i don't want to use a mouse with prediction anymore
7. Other relevant information: I have rather big hands (9,5 cm wide, about 19,5 cm long). I want a mouse which performs really good at low dpi settings since i heard that most of the newer
mice can't handle low dpi settings well. Some people even said that the best 400dpi sensor is the one in
the older microsoft mice. I could get a Intellimouse 3.0 for cheap, should i buy it? The shape looks like it would fit my hand well.


----------



## steelt116

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip-Palmgrip -> pretty much something like this, cant explain.
*What's your sensitivity?* i use 450 in CS:GO and about 800-2000 in League of Legends
*What's your maximum budget?* depends what product offer
*Do you want additional buttons?* not needed
*What games do you play?* CS:GO, League of Legends
*Do you mind about prediction?* i wont have any prediction, acceleration or other thing
*Other relevant information:*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I *want ambidextrous shape i cant play on ergonomic mouses. It can't be wireless, and buttons have to be really hyper-responsible and soft to click.*


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Using marketing materials from other companies is not really a good way to make a point in a discussion.
> I have never seen such problems with laser sensors, matter of fact i have seen them with the optical ones (and you dont see me *****ing about it)
> If I remember correctly 2 biggest Bf3 youtubers (Levelcap and Xfactor) dropped DA and switched to ROCCAT Kone XTD Max (I believe it's Avago 9800) simply because they has a better control over the mouse.
> For the last couple of years they have tried out different types of mice (they always made a video about it) and they say that this one does the job best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However I am no fan of Roccat simply because they give only 1 year of warranty.


Just because other famous BF youtubers use mice with inferior sensors that have been PROVEN to have this issue doesn't mean they are perfect mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> To be honest, I played the heck out of BFBC2, BF3 and now BF4 (I've got over 2000hrs in them) with my old G5 and never had any problems with anything.
> Only when I came to these forums I realized there was laser vs. optical debate and then realized my G5 has laser sensor.
> Now, I don't know how things have changed recently with sensors, but personally, I never noticed anything wrong with my G5.


Cause there isn't anything wrong with it. Only the 9500 and 9800 exhibit this behavior, not older VCSEL designs.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Really it's just shorthand for a trait with one family of laser-illuminated optical sensors. It has been shorthanded to LASER = BAD because the internet has a short attention span.


Correct.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Just out of pure curiosity, are you by any chance a heli gunner?
> Since you want DPI profile switch on the mouse, I think that may be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On topic:
> 
> Try and figure out which ergonomic mouse design suits you best, that's No.1 in my book.
> Then start thinking about Optical vs Laser conundrum.


It's more like pick among all optical mice first and then switch over to laser if only absolutely necessary. Especially if you want to try to play FPS in a "play to win" manner.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> According to them they are all BAD.
> Thought so, I play with some Croats (Megatron, Rocky etc) although i play mostly with ground vehicles


False, only the 9500 and 9800 have this speed-related tracking variance issue.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The G5 has the older 6010 sensor, which should be similar to the Coppherhead's laser sensor, but those are not the same as the 9500 and 9800 sensors having the more inconsistent tracking.


Yes.


----------



## Neo-ST

Alright, so in short, avoid 9500 and 9800 sensors.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> Alright, so in short, avoid 9500 and 9800 sensors.


Which is 95% of all laser based gaming mice from the last four years.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> Alright, so in short, avoid 9500 and 9800 sensors.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Which is 95% of all laser based gaming mice from the last four years.


Yep. They just make your life harder. I've played with opticals most of my gaming time, but when I first got a Sensei something felt a bit off. I convinced myself it was just me but when I realized it wasn't just me and switched to the Rival and subsequently the Avior, THERE again was that spot-on feeling that I had been missing from the Sensei's 9500 floaty tracking feel. Never again, laser.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Just because other famous BF youtubers use mice with inferior sensors that have been PROVEN to have this issue doesn't mean they are perfect mice.
> Cause there isn't anything wrong with it. Only the 9500 and 9800 exhibit this behavior, not older VCSEL designs.
> .


Well if you are into the Bf scene (your signature says so, but you are proven otherwise) you would know that xFactor is a former competitive BF player who has a vast experience when it comes to gaming mice as well as FPS.
If you are not willing to take my word for it, take his.
He said it best in his video: "Its about how it feels in your hand and your grip"


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> He said it best in his video: "Its about how it feels in your hand and your grip"


Yes, this is very important. However it's only one piece of the puzzle. The Sensei shape is amazing for me but that sensor is a deal breaker. The G502 has an amazing sensor but that shape and weight is a deal breaker etc.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Well if you are into the Bf scene (your signature says so, but you are proven otherwise) you would know that xFactor is a former competitive BF player who has vast experience when it comes to gaming as well as FPS.
> If you are not willing to take my word for it, take his.
> He said it best in his video: "Its about how it feels in your hand and your grip"


You happen to be talking to one of his Wookies. Lol.

I know why he uses it and where he comes from. And I disagree wholeheartedly with his choice. But at the same time for some pros, it is much more important to have something comfortable than something perfectly accurate.

I prefer my 30 percent accuracy rounds. Why make my own life harder? Again nothing he says in that video tells you the mouse has an inferior sensor. Doesn't change the facts. He doesn't know what we know and doesn't care. Fine for him, but there's no sense in saying laser mice are technically just as good. They aren't.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You happen to be talking to one of his Wookies. Lol.


Then you are just being disrespectful, Imma report you !








Quote:


> I know why he uses it and where he comes from. And I disagree wholeheartedly with his choice. But at the same time for some pros, it is much more important to have something comfortable than something perfectly accurate.
> 
> I prefer my 30 percent accuracy rounds. Why make my own life harder? Again nothing he says in that video tells you the mouse has an interior sensor. Doesn't change the facts. He doesn't know what we know and doesn't care. Fine for him, but there's no sense in saying laser mice are technically just as good. They aren't.


You keep your 30% accuracy while we play.








I dont know how many mice have you tried out and how adjustable (or big) your hand is, but for people with large hands
there isnt much choice to choose from .
From what I have managed to try out Advance 2 provides the best feel and grip.
I havent tried Minoix Naos simply because it is not available in my country, but in any case even Mionix doesnt provide the features that @Neo-ST wants, neither does Roccat Kone XTD for that matter.


----------



## Neo-ST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yep. They just make your life harder. I've played with opticals most of my gaming time, but when I first got a Sensei something felt a bit off. I convinced myself it was just me but when I realized it wasn't just me and switched to the Rival and subsequently the Avior, THERE again was that spot-on feeling that I had been missing from the Sensei's 9500 floaty tracking feel. Never again, laser.


I'm very tempted to order Kone XTD Optical, although there's no single review of it so far.
What do you think?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> I havent tried Minoix Naos simply because it is not available in my country, but in any case even Mionix doesnt provide the features that @Neo-ST wants, neither does Roccat Kone XTD for that matter.


It is available, if you're interested I'll tell you who sells it








But yes, Mionix is a close second contestant although it doesn't have DPI indicator


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> I'm very tempted to order Kone XTD Optical, although there's no single review of it so far.
> What do you think?


My biggest interest in the Kone XTD Optical will be "smoothing". Will it have prominent "smoothing" like the DeathAdder 2013, since it will reportedly use the same sensor (3988)?


----------



## Neo-ST

Smoothing?
Now what's that ?


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> I'm very tempted to order Kone XTD Optical, although there's no single review of it so far.
> What do you think?
> It is available, if you're interested I'll tell you who sells it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yes, Mionix is a close second contestant although it doesn't have DPI indicator


I am from Serbia, we got Roccat but not Kone XTD, I woudlnt probably buy it anyway since it has just one year of warranty which just kills it for me.
For the sake of this argument (and all of the others that will most likely happen) I say to all of you to wait for me to get Advance 2, I will make a separate thread about it just for that in order to resolve this acceleration mambo-jumbo.
I leave it to you people to suggest to me all the mouse testing software you can find (results will be posted) + I will add my objective/subjective thoughts on it.
If its good I will say so, if not I will send it back to the store and maybe buy SS Rival (God help me with that!).
Agreed?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Then you are just being disrespectful, Imma report you !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep your 30% accuracy while we play.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know how many mice have you tried out and how adjustable (or big) your hand is, but for people with large hands
> there isnt much choice to choose from .
> From what I have managed to try out Advance 2 provides the best feel and grip.
> I havent tried Minoix Naos simply because it is not available in my country, but in any case even Mionix doesnt provide the features that @Neo-ST wants, neither does Roccat Kone XTD for that matter.


I have large hands and am tall, but I grip with a fingertip grip which makes most shapes work very well. I'm lucky cause that is just how I naturally grip mice. Size hardly matters for me as long as the weight is low enough and ring and pinky can both go on the right side comfortably with enough room, I'm happy. I can grip the original FK just as comfortably as the much larger G402 as a result.

Also, I'm always the one bringing up mice on his streams







he is always like "idk about that terminal, laser is fine for me" hah, yeah, you just like the shape xfactor. You just like the shape. At least he knows Razer is unreliable though, he had the DA 2013 and 2 of 3 were bad.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> I'm very tempted to order Kone XTD Optical, although there's no single review of it so far.
> What do you think?
> It is available, if you're interested I'll tell you who sells it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yes, Mionix is a close second contestant although it doesn't have DPI indicator


It's a crapshoot on the XTD optical because of possible smoothing issues.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> Smoothing?
> Now what's that ?


Smoothing is the anti-jitter algorithm that takes extra processing time to allow higher CPIs without excessive jitter. The main downside is an artificial feeling mouse, a higher input lag, or both.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> I am from Serbia, we got Roccat but not Kone XTD, I woudlnt probably buy it anyway since one year of warranty which just kills it for me.
> For the sake of this argument (and all of the others that will most likely happen) I say to all of you to wait for me to get Advance 2, I will make a separate thread about it just for that in order to resolve this acceleration mambo-jumbo.
> I leave it to you people to suggest to me all the mouse testing software you can find (results will be posted) + I will add my objective/subjective thoughts on it.
> If its good I will say so, if not I will send it back to the store and maybe buy SS Rival (God help me with that!).
> Agreed?


Try the Rival first. The Advance 2 is going to suffer from the same exact problems I was just describing with its 9800.


----------



## Neo-ST

OK, my head's gonna explode (not much in there though).
Just tell me what to buy, this is killing me slowly.

I too got large hands and long fingers, but naturally I grip it with fingertips.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> OK, my head's gonna explode (not much in there though).
> Just tell me what to buy, this is killing me slowly.
> 
> I too got large hands and long fingers, but naturally I grip it with fingertips.


Most mice would work fine with you then. I'm using the G402 right now and my Mionix Avior 7000 is also excellent. With large hands and a fingertip grip, ring and pinky being on the right side, both of those mice work well. Currently testing the G402 at the moment but the Avior has more max PCS in the Y direction and is awesome if you prefer ambi mice.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Also, I'm always the one bringing up mice on his streams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is always like "idk about that terminal, laser is fine for me" hah, yeah, you just like the shape xfactor. You just like the shape. At least he knows Razer is unreliable though, he had the DA 2013 and 2 of 3 were bad.
> .


The guy is right, even if that Acceleration still does exist the grip on the mouse beats it all.
Also, one more thing, dont you think that a guy such as xFactor who nitpicks just about everything, with his experience (not to mention that he could have any mouse in the world if he just wrote one measly email) wouldn't notice until now that acceleration that you never seem to forget to mention?
For almost a year?
Dont think so!









Still waiting for those mouse testing software suggestions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> OK, my head's gonna explode (not much in there though).
> Just tell me what to buy, this is killing me slowly.
> 
> I too got large hands and long fingers, but naturally I grip it with fingertips.


My hand is 20,5 cm long and around 10.5cm wide and I have yet to see a mouse that fits better in my hand than Advance 2. But as I said, you do not have to make your decision now, wait till i get the mouse I will tell you everything first hand.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> The guy is right, even if that Acceleration still does exist the grip on the mouse beats it all.
> Also, one more thing, dont you think that a guy such as xFactor who nitpicks just about everything, with his experience (not to mention that he could have any mouse in the world if he just wrote one measly email) wouldn't notice until now that acceleration that you never seem to forget to mention?
> For almost a year?
> Dont think so!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for those mouse testing software suggestions.


The inconsistent "acceleration of the 9500/9800 sensors and the derivatives have now been acknowledged from Logitech via a recent video:





Also, I want to know how Logitech got the percentage.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The inconsistent "acceleration of the 9500/9800 sensors and the derivatives have now been acknowledged from Logitech via a recent video:


See my post about that video

Quote:


> Also, I want to know how Logitech got the percentage.


I am not the one you should be asking


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> See my post about that video
> I am not the one you should be asking


It seemed like you were doubting this reported "acceleration", so I, also, want to know how Logitech got the percentage.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> It seemed like you were doubting this reported "acceleration", so I, also, want to know how Logitech got the percentage.


In my case the jury is still out on this, since I have never experienced the acceleration.
I will be getting the atrocious Avago 9800 mouse by the end of this week (or at the beginning of next) so
I ask all of you who are interested in getting to the bottom of this to direct me to the valid and objective mouse testing software that will clearly expose any acceleration (if there is any) without me meddling with the results.
I have done a fair share of hardware reviews for other tech sites and i believe that I can get to the bottom of this.
With that in mind I am still open to suggestions.

PS

You do realize that Logitech with this campaign is trying to bridge the gap between the laser sensors and the optic sensors in order to sell the mouse, right?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> PS
> 
> You do realize that Logitech with this campaign is trying to bridge the gap between the laser sensors and the optic sensors in order to sell the mouse, right?


As far as I know, these 9500 and 9800 sensors are EoL because Avago doesn't make sensors anymore, so the fact that Pixart made these new incoherent light sensors (3310) might be reason enough to deduce that we won't see anymore laser sensors other than Philips's PTE...


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> As far as I know, these 9500 and 9800 sensors are EoL because Avago doesn't make sensors anymore, so the fact that Pixart made these new incoherent light sensors (3310) might be reason enough to deduce that we won't see anymore laser sensors other than Philips's PTE...


If Avago is not making laser sensors anymore I would like a link to that please.

In any case why would then Logitech bother to bash on something that is already EOL and dead?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> If Avago is not making laser sensors anymore I would like a link to that please.
> 
> In any case why would then Logitech bother to bash on something that is already EOL and dead?


Avago ceased production of its sensors, including its well known, incoherent light 3090:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1414314/avago-pixart-sensor-confusion#post_20511719


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Avago ceased production of its sensors, including its well known, incoherent light 3090:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1414314/avago-pixart-sensor-confusion#post_20511719


Oh yes I remember now.
Then I am failing in understanding your point, Avago sensors are EOL but they are not EOL because Pixart is making them now under the same name?????


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Oh yes I remember now.
> Then I am failing in understanding your point, Avago sensors are EOL but they are not EOL because Pixart is making them now under the same name?????


The 3310 is not a 3090 derivative, AFAIK...


----------



## metal571

The 3310 I believe is loosely derived from the 3090. The 9800 is branded as a Pixart sensor so I don't think that is EoL at all.

It is very easy to feel the inconsistency. All you have to do is point somewhere, ADS, and then flick to somewhere on the pad and then slowly return to your exact physically original spot on the pad. Every single time you do that you end up in a different spot. When you do the same test with optical mice they are much closer to the original spot you started at in-game when you return to that exact spot on the pad again. Sometimes the 9800 will overshoot and sometimes undershoot. The tracking has been confirmed many times. I guess you haven't seen this graph yet.



I don't make this stuff up. I don't care how much xfactor knows. He clearly has no idea about the flaws in laser mice. Like I already said, I felt it, there's proof in the above graph, and even CPate is acknowledging the problem, which is a safe marketing tactic as Logitech are moving away from laser sensors on purpose due to this issue. Mionix has also confirmed it in the following video.






I don't know what else you guys need. Seriously. I was the biggest "nah it's not that bad" Sensei guy when talking about the accel and then I finally realized everyone else was dead correct and I was just in denial. It IS an issue and it will affect your gameplay. How much? Depends on how exact your aim needs to be and how well you can deal with the flick->correct->fire process rather than just playing as flick->fire with opticals. It is particularly easy to feel when sniping.


----------



## L4dd

I understand that Pixart could make a 9500/9800 derivative.

Did Logitech use an incoherent light LED for its new 3366 sensor for marketing, since people assume that all laser sensors are bad? I'm curious to see a new laser illuminated sensor's performance on different surfaces like cloth mousepads, not the PTE.


----------



## turnschuh

Yea accel is pretty easy to test lol.
Maybe xfactor plays on hard mat with high sens?

Anyways, even the csgo pros use laser sensors and are probably not aware or dont care about the accel.

What i find funny is that n0thing uses the xai but also uses a hard mat (which decreases the accuracy variance of the sensor) on top of cloth because of the consistency he said i believe.

Now i get what he meant.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> Yea accel is pretty easy to test lol.
> Maybe xfactor plays on hard mat with high sens?
> 
> Anyways, even the csgo pros use laser sensors and are probably not aware or dont care about the accel.
> 
> What i find funny is that n0thing uses the xai but also uses a hard mat (which decreases the accuracy variance of the sensor) on top of cloth because of the consistency he said i believe.
> 
> Now i get what he meant.


xFACTOR uses a QcK Heavy with the XTD. At least n0thing realizes that hard mats help the sensor. I also was able to confirm that hard mats help as it didn't feel like my cursor overshot as much and shots were tighter and more consistent on the MM400 I was using at the time. It's usable...but just barely. Optical on cloth still feels more correct in my experience.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I understand that Pixart could make a 9500/9800 derivative.
> 
> Did Logitech use an incoherent light LED for its new 3366 sensor for marketing, since people assume that all laser sensors are bad? I'm curious to see a new laser illuminated sensor's performance on different surfaces like cloth mousepads, not the PTE.


I'm pretty sure the 3366 is just an LED optical, not a VCSEL tech at all. Correct, VCSEL is not a flawed tech but the way it is most popularly implemented right now in the 9800 causes inconsistent tracking. We really need a new VCSEL that is designed to both be highly surface compatible AND accurate when tracking.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm pretty sure the 3366 is just an LED optical, not a VCSEL tech at all. Correct, VCSEL is not a flawed tech but the way it is most popularly implemented right now in the 9800 causes inconsistent tracking. We really need a new VCSEL that is designed to both be highly surface compatible AND accurate when tracking.


Yeah, the G502's sensor doesn't use a laser... Did Logitech use an incoherent light illuminated sensor because of marketing, so that it could stay with its "optical versus laser" promoting, despite the possibility of a laser based sensor being able to track well, too, or was it a decision based on surface compatibility, such as lasers not providing consistent enough tracking on cloth and/or other surfaces?


----------



## turnschuh

I see, thanks.
Not really sure if n0thing meant the tracking to be more consistent though^^ But it would be logical.
Maybe he meant the consistency of hard mats versus cloth because they dont wear in so much. Who knows.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> I see, thanks.
> Not really sure if n0thing meant the tracking to be more consistent though^^ But it would be logical.
> Maybe he meant the consistency of hard mats versus cloth because they dont wear in so much. Who knows.


Well, less deviation from the "true" path that you traverse with the mouse on a hard mat could indeed be described as more consistent indeed. Shots you take will also be more consistent as a result.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Yeah, the G502's sensor doesn't use a laser... Did Logitech use an incoherent light illuminated sensor because of marketing, so that it could stay with its "optical versus laser" promoting, despite the possibility of a laser based sensor being able to track well, too?


Now you're delving into territory I don't even know. Never heard of incoherent light illumination before.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Now you're delving into territory I don't even know. Never heard of incoherent light illumination before.


I mean coherent light as laser light, which might be too precise and in need of a more consistent surface to provide more consistent tracking.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I mean incoherent light as laser light, which might be too precise and in need of a more consistent surface to provide more consistent tracking.


Doesn't seem to be the case as we have, and Logitech has, confirmed no accel in the 502 at all


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Doesn't seem to be the case as we have, and Logitech has, confirmed no accel in the 502 at all


I messed up my defining of coherent light... Oops!
Was a "non-laser" or incoherent light source chosen based on surface preferences, where a laser would require a finer, more consistent surface than an incoherent light would require to allow for more consistent tracking? That's what I meant...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I messed up my defining of coherent light... Oops!
> Was a "non-laser" or incoherent light source chosen based on surface preferences, where a laser would require a finer, more consistent surface than an incoherent light would require to allow for more consistent tracking? That's what I meant...


Now I see what you're talking about. I forgot old physics class lol yes laser light is coherent photons. Alright. I don't think it was chosen because Logitech wants you to use it on cloth though, because it tracks well at low LOD even on hard mats the way they have it designed. It basically is the best sensor in every regard...tracks on hard mats and cloth mats just as well and calibrates to the surface.

I doubt it would work on glass though.


----------



## Neo-ST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Smoothing is the anti-jitter algorithm that takes extra processing time to allow higher CPIs without excessive jitter. The main downside is an artificial feeling mouse, a higher input lag, or both.


So this algorithm is bad only for high CPIs ? Or is it evident always ?
I'm asking because I always play at ~800DPI, I only switch sometimes to 1600 or so.
XTD Optical goes to 6400DPI, which I'll never use.
I just don't want to disregard the whole mouse because of that.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo-ST*
> 
> So this algorithm is bad only for high CPIs ? Or is it evident always ?
> I'm asking because I always play at ~800DPI, I only switch sometimes to 1600 or so.
> XTD Optical goes to 6400DPI, which I'll never use.
> I just don't want to disregard the whole mouse because of that.


AFAIK for the way they did it in the DA 2013, all steps have smoothing.


----------



## Neo-ST

Bummer :/


----------



## hza

I don't know how much you can reduce through firmware, but Roccat probably did a better job than Razer at least.


----------



## TrantaLocked

I need a mouse suggestion. I use a Deathadder but find it a bit too wide for fingertip, but it is still ok.

What's your grip style? - *Fingertip, with index on left button and middle on right button*
What's your sensitivity? *800 to 1500, I just use the Windows 6/11 setting and whatever base DPI the mouse comes in*
What's your maximum budget? *$60*
Do you want additional buttons? *Preferably one or two thumb buttons*
What games do you play? *First and third person action games, League of Legends*
Do you mind about prediction? *I prefer no inherent prediction, but I do use the built in Windows acceleration*

Other relevant information:

I have large hands with long fingers and use fingertip. I want a mouse that is narrow, or at least narrow at the area where you would place the thumb and right side fingers. I tried the G100s and I dislike the convexity of the shape. I kind of liked the G700s because of the indent for the thumb, but the mouse overall is too large and heavy for it to be comfortable using as a fingertip mouse. My main focus is finding something that is as narrow as possible where my fingers will be gripping the mouse. I can develop cramps if I am gripping a wider mouse.

I like this Kensington mouse here (http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72356US-Mouse--Desktop-Mouse/dp/B002ZIN9DU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408754797&sr=1-1&keywords=kensington+mouse) for its narrow dimension, but the drawbacks are a lack of thumb button and stiff clickers. I VERY MUCH like the responsive clickers on the Deathadder.

Summary: Need narrow mouse for fingertip grip, responsive left/right buttons like Deathadder, prefer left side thumb button(s), similar to Kensington K72356US but with a bit larger size and higher quality tracker.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> I need a mouse suggestion. I use a Deathadder but find it a bit too wide for fingertip, but it is still ok.
> 
> What's your grip style? - *Fingertip, with index on left button and middle on right button*
> What's your sensitivity? *800 to 1500, I just use the Windows 6/11 setting and whatever base DPI the mouse comes in*
> What's your maximum budget? *$60*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Preferably one or two thumb buttons*
> What games do you play? *First and third person action games, League of Legends*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I prefer no inherent prediction, but I do use the built in Windows acceleration*
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I have large hands with long fingers and use fingertip. I want a mouse that is narrow, or at least narrow at the area where you would place the thumb and right side fingers. I tried the G100s and I dislike the convexity of the shape. I kind of liked the G700s because of the indent for the thumb, but the mouse overall is too large and heavy for it to be comfortable using as a fingertip mouse. My main focus is finding something that is as narrow as possible where my fingers will be gripping the mouse. I can develop cramps if I am gripping a wider mouse.
> 
> I like this Kensington mouse here (http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72356US-Mouse--Desktop-Mouse/dp/B002ZIN9DU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408754797&sr=1-1&keywords=kensington+mouse) for its narrow dimension, but the drawbacks are a lack of thumb button and stiff clickers. I VERY MUCH like the responsive clickers on the Deathadder.
> 
> Summary: Need narrow mouse for fingertip grip, responsive left/right buttons like Deathadder, prefer left side thumb button(s), similar to Kensington K72356US but with a bit larger size and higher quality tracker.


Zowie FK1, Avior 7000 is a bit bigger and more expensive but more reliable as well and a bit heavier with lighter clicks. The Zowie has the infamous Huanos.


----------



## PUKED

If you want something as concave in the middle and light as possible I'd go for the FK 2014. Amazon still stocks them. Like metal571 said though: huanos.

Compared to the FK1 or Avior's sensor the Zowie 3090 implementation has some quirks (low lod is bad on some surfaces, lower pcs, weird DPI steps, better tracking at 500hz and higher DPIs) but if you can put up with those it's good.


----------



## rogerthat1945

After YEARS AND YEARS of waiting, there is still no Decent LEFT-HANDED Wireless Gaming mouse on the market. I hate wired mice.

I have gone through so many generally crap mice that I want to vomit.

I bought the Logitech M560 recently, but in shooter games, the left button also causes the right button to fire off sometimes, and the right button causes the left button to fire off. Wrecks a game.

Then (in desperation) I bought the Wired Logitech G300 (with 6 top buttons); but in its two years of release, there is not a single video on youtube on how to program the buttons for games; and which seems especially difficult for gamers who program for left-handed play (as no instructions written down by Logitech seem to work).

Like I said.

THERE IS STILL NO DECENT LEFT-HANDED WIRELESS GAMING MOUSE ON THE MARKET.

A middle finger to every one of you who thinks that is Ok.


----------



## TrantaLocked

Is there anything as high quality as the FK1 but even thinner than the FK?

Anyone try the Roccat Kone Pure? It looks like at the point where the outside finger make contact width would be pretty small because of that nice groove: http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Optical-Performance-Gaming-ROC-11-710/dp/B00DHAD3JU/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408767495&sr=1-2&keywords=ROCCAT+Kone+Pure

I did like the grooves in the Logitech G700s, it was just the weight and size of the mouse that was a turn off.


----------



## hanaxxaru

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip/Claw hybrid*

What's your sensitivity?
*1500-2000*

What's your maximum budget?
*30-40$*

Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes but not too crowded*

What games do you play?
*Wide range of games*

Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't mind*

Other relevant information:
*My hands is about 18cm size and looking for a mouse that comfortably used for a long time session when I browsing and gaming. Need to exclude Rival and Deathadder because its too long for me, about 1.5-2cm wasted length*


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> Is there anything as high quality as the FK1 but even thinner than the FK?
> 
> Anyone try the Roccat Kone Pure? It looks like at the point where the outside finger make contact width would be pretty small because of that nice groove: http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Optical-Performance-Gaming-ROC-11-710/dp/B00DHAD3JU/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408767495&sr=1-2&keywords=ROCCAT+Kone+Pure
> 
> I did like the grooves in the Logitech G700s, it was just the weight and size of the mouse that was a turn off.


I have a Savu, which is pretty much the same shape as the Pure I think. Thickness in the middle goes G100s > Savu > FK, but it depends with the Savu because the thumb groove makes the side's kind of / / shaped instead of \ /, the ergonomics on that thing are weird.


----------



## Neo-ST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I don't know how much you can reduce through firmware, but Roccat probably did a better job than Razer at least.


I hope so, I think I'm gonna pull the trigger.


----------



## TrantaLocked

After trying the G100s, I now think what I want is a relatively small, but ergonomic mouse. The G100s is small, but doesn't have the side grooves to make my fingers feel at home. It also has pretty stiff and loud buttons, which is what I am trying to avoid.

I'm more appreciating the aspects of my Deathadder. The Deathadder 2013 has slight side grooves and rubber grips for a more stable fingertip grip, left side buttons, and very responsive m1/m2 buttons. At this point I want almost just want a smaller Deathadder. Out of this list, what do you think would be best?

-Roccat Kone Pure Optical (I am leaning most towards this mouse, I just wish it had rubber side grips like the DA 2013)
-Roccat Savu
-Zowie FK1 (What is the point of chancing from DA to this when it is longer than the DA? People say it was designed for fingertip but in my opinion it is a neutral design)
-CM Storm Spawn (small size with rubber grips, but not sure how the ring finger rest would feel in fingertip grip)
-CM Storm Recon (seems decent and also narrow, but designed as ambidextrous)
-Logitech G400(s) (seems too big for what I want)
-Logitech G9X (very expensive)
-Razer Abyssus (no side buttons)
-Steelseries Sensei (Read bad things about the sensor, also kind of wide for what I want)

I haven't tried any of the above, so the comments are just based on what I have seen and read about the mice.

I wish I could go somewhere to try out all of these. That would make it a lot easier deciding. Too much of a pain to buy them all and return them all.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> After trying the G100s, I now think what I want is a relatively small, but ergonomic mouse. The G100s is small, but doesn't have the side grooves to make my fingers feel at home. It also has pretty stiff and loud buttons, which is what I am trying to avoid.
> 
> I'm more appreciating the aspects of my Deathadder. The Deathadder 2013 has slight side grooves and rubber grips for a more stable fingertip grip, left side buttons, and very responsive m1/m2 buttons. At this point I want almost just want a smaller Deathadder. Out of this list, what do you think would be best?
> 
> -Roccat Kone Pure Optical (I am leaning most towards this mouse, I just wish it had rubber side grips like the DA 2013)
> -Roccat Savu
> -Zowie FK1 (What is the point of chancing from DA to this when it is longer than the DA? People say it was designed for fingertip but in my opinion it is a neutral design)
> -CM Storm Spawn (small size with rubber grips, but not sure how the ring finger rest would feel in fingertip grip)
> -CM Storm Recon (seems decent and also narrow, but designed as ambidextrous)
> -Logitech G400(s) (seems too big for what I want)
> -Logitech G9X (very expensive)
> -Razer Abyssus (no side buttons)
> -Steelseries Sensei (Read bad things about the sensor, also kind of wide for what I want)
> 
> I haven't tried any of the above, so the comments are just based on what I have seen and read about the mice.
> 
> I wish I could go somewhere to try out all of these. That would make it a lot easier deciding. Too much of a pain to buy them all and return them all.


So you are a fingertip like me? Zowie FK1 could be your mouse of choice. Also don't discount the Avior 7000 although it is a little heavier but possibly more importantly, larger than the FK1 though. It is more shapely though with a very pronounced V shape on the front.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> After trying the G100s, I now think what I want is a relatively small, but ergonomic mouse. The G100s is small, but doesn't have the side grooves to make my fingers feel at home. It also has pretty stiff and loud buttons, which is what I am trying to avoid.
> 
> I'm more appreciating the aspects of my Deathadder. The Deathadder 2013 has slight side grooves and rubber grips for a more stable fingertip grip, left side buttons, and very responsive m1/m2 buttons. At this point I want almost just want a smaller Deathadder. Out of this list, what do you think would be best?
> 
> -Roccat Kone Pure Optical (I am leaning most towards this mouse, I just wish it had rubber side grips like the DA 2013)
> -Roccat Savu
> -Zowie FK1 (What is the point of chancing from DA to this when it is longer than the DA? People say it was designed for fingertip but in my opinion it is a neutral design)
> -CM Storm Spawn (small size with rubber grips, but not sure how the ring finger rest would feel in fingertip grip)
> -CM Storm Recon (seems decent and also narrow, but designed as ambidextrous)
> -Logitech G400(s) (seems too big for what I want)
> -Logitech G9X (very expensive)
> -Razer Abyssus (no side buttons)
> -Steelseries Sensei (Read bad things about the sensor, also kind of wide for what I want)
> 
> I haven't tried any of the above, so the comments are just based on what I have seen and read about the mice.
> 
> I wish I could go somewhere to try out all of these. That would make it a lot easier deciding. Too much of a pain to buy them all and return them all.


Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Kone Pure Military is a smaller ergonomic mouse, but it's not a small mouse. KPO was a little too small for me unfortunately, but it could have the right size for you. You have to try it out yourself though. I can't guarantee that, but if the size will be good for you, you'll love it, I guess.


----------



## Erick Silver

What's your grip style? *Claw/Palm mix*
What's your sensitivity? *currently play BF4 at 5400dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *Inexpensive as possible yet still want goo d quality.*
Do you want additional buttons? *minimum 2 side buttons on thumb side*
What games do you play? *BF4, WoW, Starcraft, Diablo 3,*
Do you mind about prediction? *Unsure*
Other relevant information: *Would like a nylon braided cord, Red LED lighting or customizable lighting. Right handed gamer here. Ambi not necessary. adjustable weights please*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## hza

I wonder why you play at so high dpi, but Roccat Kone XTD (Optical) would offer you custom lights and weights. It's not that cheap though. It's like 80-90 Euro depending where you buy it. Also G502 from Logitech. Guess you need the extra weights for the high dpi.


----------



## Erick Silver

I use the Razer Surround sound program. Nothing like spinning around and shooting the guy trying to sneak up on you with just the flick of the wrist.


----------



## TrantaLocked

I ended up disliking the Roccat Kone Pure. Almost everything about it is perfect, but the right side of the mouse is really bad for finger tip grip. The side is slanted in a way that makes the ring and pinkie fingers uncomfortable. The scroll wheel is nice though.

Back to searching I guess.


----------



## enoch81

Hi guys, I'm looking for a decent mouse, I always used the standard mouse provided by pc manifacturer.
My hand size is 19 centimeters from the top of the middle finger to the base of the palm and the palm itself in the inner part considering from index to the little finger is circa 9 centimeters.

What's your grip style?
Mainly Fingertip with palm that sometimes is touching the mouse. I'm usinga very standard and cheap logitech mk250 cordless desktop.
What's your sensitivity?
I think low to mid sens.
What's your maximum budget?
I live in Italy, so I mean euro value: 25/30 euro.
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes,2/3 buttons to extra commands and some dedicated to change the profile (i prefer to have 2 buttons to choose profiles instead only one bit it won't ne an issue)
What games do you play?
Borderlands, Torchlight, Battlefield, Mass effect.
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know, I never used a mouse with prediction, I tried the "MS paint" test and my mouse don't have it.I think that prediction is useless bit if not affect the precision I don't mind.
Other relevant information:
Right handed shape
If possible silly lights (or software must let me deactivate it), bit I can survive I think.
Compatibility with windows 7
Dedicated configuration software.
Best number of profile switchable will be 3.
Wired mouse will be nice.
If possibile built in memory.
I'm a Blender and CATIA 3D modeler, the mouse must be suitable for these software.
The mouse wheel MUST NOT TILT, I don't like it.
I have a large rigid cm storm mousepad (with a an image of a rifle on it).
Thank you for your help.


----------



## Gil80

What's your grip style? *Palm Grip*
What's your sensitivity? *Don't know how to answer that.*
What's your maximum budget? *Not an issue*
Do you want additional buttons? *Not really a factor for me*
What games do you play? *FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? *Better left without? What's best for FPS?*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

*Wired. Comfortable. Not slippery from sweat after hours of playing. onboard mem is nice*.
So I'm really confused about this.
Currently I have Roccat Kone XTD laser mouse. I also use Rantopad Mammoth surface.
I mainly play BF4.

What I don't get is that with the amount of time I played I'm still not comfortable with the mouse settings I use. I'm not sure what's the best DPI to use at all. I keep messing with DPI and in-game sensitivity but not really getting good results that I think I can use for long periods.

I use Raw input. Windows sensitivity is 6/11. No Acceleration.

Major question is, SHOULD I switch to optical?


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm Grip*
> What's your sensitivity? *Don't know how to answer that.*
> What's your maximum budget? *Not an issue*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Not really a factor for me*
> What games do you play? *FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Better left without? What's best for FPS?*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> *Wired. Comfortable. Not slippery from sweat after hours of playing. onboard mem is nice*.
> So I'm really confused about this.
> Currently I have Roccat Kone XTD laser mouse. I also use Rantopad Mammoth surface.
> I mainly play BF4.
> 
> What I don't get is that with the amount of time I played I'm still not comfortable with the mouse settings I use. I'm not sure what's the best DPI to use at all. I keep messing with DPI and in-game sensitivity but not really getting good results that I think I can use for long periods.
> 
> I use Raw input. Windows sensitivity is 6/11. No Acceleration.
> 
> Major question is, SHOULD I switch to optical?


First do this from xFactors tutorial and test the mouse with mouse testing software (all in the description).
Few days ago, i got a mouse which has the same sensor as yours does and i am not able find any acceleration with it.

PS

Did you update your mouse with the latest firmware?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enoch81*
> 
> Hi guys, I'm looking for a decent mouse, I always used the standard mouse provided by pc manifacturer.
> My hand size is 19 centimeters from the top of the middle finger to the base of the palm and the palm itself in the inner part considering from index to the little finger is circa 9 centimeters.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Mainly Fingertip with palm that sometimes is touching the mouse. I'm usinga very standard and cheap logitech mk250 cordless desktop.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I think low to mid sens.
> What's your maximum budget?
> I live in Italy, so I mean euro value: 25/30 euro.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes,2/3 buttons to extra commands and some dedicated to change the profile (i prefer to have 2 buttons to choose profiles instead only one bit it won't ne an issue)
> What games do you play?
> Borderlands, Torchlight, Battlefield, Mass effect.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know, I never used a mouse with prediction, I tried the "MS paint" test and my mouse don't have it.I think that prediction is useless bit if not affect the precision I don't mind.
> Other relevant information:
> Right handed shape
> If possible silly lights (or software must let me deactivate it), bit I can survive I think.
> Compatibility with windows 7
> Dedicated configuration software.
> Best number of profile switchable will be 3.
> Wired mouse will be nice.
> If possibile built in memory.
> I'm a Blender and CATIA 3D modeler, the mouse must be suitable for these software.
> The mouse wheel MUST NOT TILT, I don't like it.
> I have a large rigid cm storm mousepad (with a an image of a rifle on it).
> Thank you for your help.


Logitech G100s, Roccat Lua and Razer Abyssus are about 30 Euro and both have no side buttons. There's also the CM Storm Xornet. Costs about 22 Euro on german Amazon, but I don't know how good that ghing is. At least it has side buttons. You might like it, no clue.


----------



## enoch81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Logitech G100s, Roccat Lua and Razer Abyssus are about 30 Euro and both have no side buttons. There's also the CM Storm Xornet. Costs about 22 Euro on german Amazon, but I don't know how good that ghing is. At least it has side buttons. You might like it, no clue.


Thank you for having found the time to give me a suggestion.
- i need buttons, so g100 Lua and Abyssus are not useful.
The xornet is a great mouse, bit I think that is too small and don't have software.
Thank you.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enoch81*
> 
> Thank you for having found the time to give me a suggestion.
> - i need buttons, so g100 Lua and Abyssus are not useful.
> The xornet is a great mouse, bit I think that is too small and don't have software.
> Thank you.


There are Logitech G400s and Roccat Savu for 40-50 Euro (depending where you buy them) that could suit your needs.


----------



## enoch81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> There are Logitech G400s and Roccat Savu for 40-50 Euro (depending where you buy them) that could suit your needs.


Thank you, bit my budget is lower. However thank you for the support:
the g400s costs 45€ and i read that only the side buttons are programmable.

The roccat savu has only 2 buttons andò costs 49€.

I need something less expensive thank you for helping me.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm Grip*
> What's your sensitivity? *Don't know how to answer that.*
> What's your maximum budget? *Not an issue*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Not really a factor for me*
> What games do you play? *FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Better left without? What's best for FPS?*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> *Wired. Comfortable. Not slippery from sweat after hours of playing. onboard mem is nice*.
> So I'm really confused about this.
> Currently I have Roccat Kone XTD laser mouse. I also use Rantopad Mammoth surface.
> I mainly play BF4.
> 
> What I don't get is that with the amount of time I played I'm still not comfortable with the mouse settings I use. I'm not sure what's the best DPI to use at all. I keep messing with DPI and in-game sensitivity but not really getting good results that I think I can use for long periods.
> 
> I use Raw input. Windows sensitivity is 6/11. No Acceleration.
> 
> Major question is, SHOULD I switch to optical?


That's a hard mat you're using with the XTD which shouldn't have so much acceleration with the 9800 but the way the 9800 is could still throw your shot a bit. Going also after what @Kronin said, don't use any mouse sensitivity higher than what xFACTOR uses, which is 1800 CPI at 10% in game. I actually play BF4 on 400 CPI at 7% which is ~70cm/360.

Also make sure you are getting a consistent 100+ FPS on the game or input lag will throw off your shot a lot. Cap the frames in a user.cfg file.


----------



## Gil80

I dont know if i have acceleration. I know its disabled in setings but i just dont know if i have any or if the mat effects acceleration. In addition, i dont know how to effectively use the xFACTOR. I read all about it anf i guess I'm too dumb to make sense on how to implement it for my mouse/mat/game.

Which mouse mat should i use?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> I dont know if i have acceleration. I know its disabled in setings but i just dont know if i have any or if the mat effects acceleration. In addition, i dont know how to effectively use the xFACTOR. I read all about it anf i guess I'm too dumb to make sense on how to implement it for my mouse/mat/game.
> 
> Which mouse mat should i use?


Yours is fine, hard mats are optimal for the 9800 sensor. Or more specifically, the most accurate tracking you're gonna get with a 9800 would be on a hard mat which is what you have (plastic, I looked it up)

xFACTOR is just a BF4 YouTuber. He uses 1800 CPI on the XTD and in game there is a mouse sensitivity slider for solider sensitivity. Set that to 10% and start there and see how that feels. I happen to also be part of his community, xFACTOR's Wookies. However, he uses a highly suboptimal mousepad for the XTD, a QcK Heavy. You are already ahead of him on that front, lol

TLR: just set the mouse to 1800 "DPI" (CPI is the correct term although hardly used in marketing) and set in game sensitivity to 10% and see how that feels.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yours is fine, hard mats are optimal for the 9800 sensor. Or more specifically, the most accurate tracking you're gonna get with a 9800 would be on a hard mat which is what you have (plastic, I looked it up)
> 
> xFACTOR is just a BF4 YouTuber. He uses 1800 CPI on the XTD and in game there is a mouse sensitivity slider for solider sensitivity. Set that to 10% and start there and see how that feels. I happen to also be part of his community, xFACTOR's Wookies. However, he uses a highly suboptimal mousepad for the XTD, a QcK Heavy. You are already ahead of him on that front, lol
> 
> TLR: just set the mouse to 1800 "DPI" (CPI is the correct term although hardly used in marketing) and set in game sensitivity to 10% and see how that feels.


So in my case, the mouse is capable of 5 CPI settings. If one of them is 1800, what should I use for the rest?
Should I enable acceleration?

Also, I read that in order to avoid negative acceleration, it's better to use low in-game sensitivity (below 1?) and high CPI.

Besides taking on your advice, how should I actually calculate it?
Using a 1920x1200 @ 60hz, have any affect?
Why do I see many articles about people saying that they use about 400DPI-800DPI for optimal results in BF4 with 1% sensitivity? Sounds pretty slow.
I use the BF4 Tweaks application and what I set there, doesn't reflect correctly in the game.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> So in my case, the mouse is capable of 5 CPI settings. If one of them is 1800, what should I use for the rest?
> Should I enable acceleration?
> 
> Also, I read that in order to avoid negative acceleration, it's better to use low in-game sensitivity (below 1?) and high CPI.
> 
> Besides taking on your advice, how should I actually calculate it?
> Using a 1920x1200 @ 60hz, have any affect?
> Why do I see many articles about people saying that they use about 400DPI-800DPI for optimal results in BF4 with 1% sensitivity? Sounds pretty slow.
> I use the BF4 Tweaks application and what I set there, doesn't reflect correctly in the game.


Keep acceleration off, and do not change your CPI in game at all. On the fly CPI is something that is pure marketing as far as FPS gaming is concerned. Professional FPS gamers never change their sensitivity or CPI on the fly to maintain their muscle memory. Keep acceleration disabled...although that sensor still has some inherent acceleration, but you are avoiding most of it by using it on a hard plastic pad. That's another story though, I won't go into that here. You don't need to calculate any sensitivity, just set it to 10% soldier sens in the game itself. Also, neg accel will not take effect in BF4 because it uses raw input. Your monitor resolution and Hz doesn't affect effective sens either.


----------



## Gil80

Ok, and what about vehicle sens?

Plus, would you recommend replacing the mouse to Deathadder 2013 or the XTD Optical version?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Ok, and what about vehicle sens?
> 
> Plus, would you recommend replacing the mouse to Deathadder 2013 or the XTD Optical version?


Neither of those have an optimal sensor though, why not the Naos 7000? You would need to switch to a cloth mousepad though


----------



## Gil80

Deathadder 2013: 6400dpi 4G Optical Sensor
Source: http://www.razerzone.com/au-en/gaming-mice/razer-deathadder

Roccat Kone XTD Optical: 6400DPI Pro-Optic (R5) Sensor
Source: http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Kone-XTD-Optical/


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Deathadder 2013: 6400dpi 4G Optical Sensor
> Source: http://www.razerzone.com/au-en/gaming-mice/razer-deathadder
> 
> Roccat Kone XTD Optical: 6400DPI Pro-Optic (R5) Sensor
> Source: http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Kone-XTD-Optical/


Yeah both of them have the S3988, a sensor that is known for its smoothing, that's why I don't trust 100% that the XTD Optical will be quite as snappy as the 3310 mice currently available. Usually the DA 2013 is the last optical mouse we recommend on this forum after all 3310 mice are exhausted.


----------



## Gil80

Why DA2013 is that last to recommend? I didn't understand... all the reviews I read hail this mouse.
As for the Naos7000, they don't mention if it has 1000hz polling rate.
I can get the DA2013 for $44 but again, why don't you recommend it? In your opinion, why should I stick to my current mouse?


----------



## turnschuh

Because of the smoothing and the unresponsive mouse feeling compared to earlier deathadders and the new 3310 sensor mice.


----------



## Gil80

So the only considerable upgrade form my Kone XTD will be Mionix Naos 7000?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Why DA2013 is that last to recommend? I didn't understand... all the reviews I read hail this mouse.
> As for the Naos7000, they don't mention if it has 1000hz polling rate.
> I can get the DA2013 for $44 but again, why don't you recommend it? In your opinion, why should I stick to my current mouse?


It's 1000 Hz. I have the Avior 7000, the Naos is the same sensor, 3310. Here on OCN rule #1 is don't trust reviews from other sites. They don't talk about stuff like inconsistent acceleration, smoothing, input lag, PCS, etc. The DA 2013 is a generally unreliable, poorly built, overpriced gaming mouse (at MSRP) and there are a lot of other options that are better.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> So the only considerable upgrade form my Kone XTD will be Mionix Naos 7000?


There are other mice. The SteelSeries Rival is also a possibility, but it isn't built too well either. If you were a claw or fingertip there are others I would recommend, but for palm the only mice that come to mind are the Rival and the Naos.


----------



## turnschuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> So the only considerable upgrade form my Kone XTD will be Mionix Naos 7000?


Wait for the mionix castor/caster ^^


----------



## Gil80

Is there any coin in mat scanning option like the roccat kone has or is it a gimmick?
I'm referring to the fact that now I'm biased towards the naos7000.

Besides the above, my last question would be, do you think I should get rid of the kone xtd (for whatever reason, be it laser or just not good enough) or and get the naos7000 as the next best thing? (because it has the important things for games? i.e., no acc. smoothness, whatever comes into mind)

P.S. - Still wondering why do people say "Use high DPI and low in-game sensitivity to avoid negative acceleration".
How can I test if my mouse has negative acceleration?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Is there any coin in mat scanning option like the roccat kone has or is it a gimmick?
> I'm referring to the fact that now I'm biased towards the naos7000.
> 
> Besides the above, my last question would be, do you think I should get rid of the kone xtd (for whatever reason, be it laser or just not good enough) or and get the naos7000 as the next best thing? (because it has the important things for games? i.e., no acc. smoothness, whatever comes into mind)
> 
> P.S. - Still wondering why do people say "Use high DPI and low in-game sensitivity to avoid negative acceleration".
> How can I test if my mouse has negative acceleration?


It certainly won't hurt your aim, that's for sure. It likes cloth though, you should get a large cloth mat with it if you go that route. I tried a Sensei back in the day with an MM400 hard mat and even though it was a nice experience I could never hit shots with that that I could with an optical and a cloth mat.


----------



## Gil80

@metal571, do you have any input on my other questions/thoughts from my last post?


----------



## enoch81

Do Someone have any suggestion for a cheap but valid fingertip mouse? Thank you


----------



## turnschuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> P.S. - Still wondering why do people say "Use high DPI and low in-game sensitivity to avoid negative acceleration".
> How can I test if my mouse has negative acceleration?


Its the other way around. In games like CS you have "negative accel" if you use higher dpi because of how the engine handles the mouse input.
With raw input its fine though. Without raw input its best to use 400/450 dpi for example. Considering you would use a normal lowish sensitivity.

You can test it the same like if you were testing for acceleration. Position your mouse on the left side of your mouse pad, swipe fast to the right, go slowly back to the left side and see where your crosshair is compared to the start point. If its left of it you got pos accel and if its right of it your mouse has/had issues tracking at higher speeds.

Always thought that negative accel is the "feature" of a mouse or mouse software slowing down the mouse movement more and more the slower you move the mouse. As opposite to "positive acceleration".


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enoch81*
> 
> Do Someone have any suggestion for a cheap but valid fingertip mouse? Thank you


G100s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Is there any coin in mat scanning option like the roccat kone has or is it a gimmick?
> I'm referring to the fact that now I'm biased towards the naos7000.
> 
> Besides the above, my last question would be, do you think I should get rid of the kone xtd (for whatever reason, be it laser or just not good enough) or and get the naos7000 as the next best thing? (because it has the important things for games? i.e., no acc. smoothness, whatever comes into mind)
> 
> P.S. - Still wondering why do people say "Use high DPI and low in-game sensitivity to avoid negative acceleration".
> How can I test if my mouse has negative acceleration?


The Naos doesn't have that but doesn't need it. Usually that calibrates LOD. You can adjust LOD yourself on the Naos. But I repeat, you must play with a cloth mat. Most hard mats don't play well with the 3310 in that they increase the LOD greatly no matter what you set it to. I would indeed trade up to the Naos 7000 from the XTD if you are willing to get a cloth mat with it as well. Actually you want lower CPI and higher in-game sensitivity to avoid negative acceleration because with high CPI you are sending windows more counts, of which in non-raw input games can actually overload Windows' max number of counts possible per frame depending on both res and framerate and that is what causes neg accel. To test for neg accel, just swipe slowly to a point on screen in-game and then swipe VERY quickly approximately the same distance on your pad. If you fall short, you have negatively accelerated.


----------



## Gil80

If it's a cloth mouse pad, which one would be best from these brands?
https://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_1492


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> If it's a cloth mouse pad, which one would be best from these brands?
> https://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_1492


http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_1492_1496&products_id=12360

Doesn't break the bank and this pad will always IMO be ol' reliable. An awesome pad that lasts forever and always has just the right amount of friction while still being smooth enough.


----------



## Gil80

I thought you'd suggest to go for the Mionix mouse pad









I just used this link: https://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html
and it gave me some wacky numbers (based on suggestions from previous posts):


----------



## staircase0

*What's your grip style?* claw / fingertip hybrid
*What's your sensitivity?* Don't know atm.
*What's your maximum budget?* Around 65€
*Do you want additional buttons?* I wan't DPI changing buttons and thumb 'forward/back'' buttons.
*What games do you play?* Mostly BF3, BF4. Also play games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect + some RTS.
*Do you mind about prediction?*Probably not.
*Other relevant information:*

* I would like to not to be annoyed by pressing some unneeded buttons.

* I have above average sized hand ~20cm fingertips to wrist.

* I currently use M705 wireless mouse. It is quite good for my grip style, but it's too short and also, i would like maybe wider mouse.
Problem is that i have my ring finger and pinky scrambled in one place on the right side of the mouse. So i am thinking maybe Mionix NAOS mouse would fix that ergonomic issue. But what i like about my claw/finger tip grip is that when i play BF or some other shooter, i can fine tune my crosshair up and down, moving my fingers relative to my hand. So i am interested if it is possible with a mouse like NAOS 7000?

* I am looking for precise and robust sensor/software. Also overall built quality is on the top of my list.


----------



## Khelben

*1. What's your grip style?* Palm /Fingertip hybrid

*2.What's your sensitivity?* Comfortable with anything between 1000-1500

*3.What's your maximum budget?* Well if i can find something that ll serve me as faithfully as my mx518 and for that many years,i dont mind goin as high as 100 Euros

*4.Do you want additional buttons?* Yes two side buttons is what i am looking for. Dpi buttons would be nice too but not a dealbreaker. Too many side buttons(3+) are also a no-go.

*5.What games do you play?* Dota2 mainly. WoW/D3 and some grand strategy games from time to time too.

*6.Do you mind about prediction?* Yes i really want to avoid it if possible.

*7.Other relevant information:* I m right handed with fairly large fingers and for the past 10 years or so i ve only used 2 different mice that basically share the same design.Mx518 and the G5. That kind of shape is what i m looking for. I dont mind heavy mice but a lighter one would be welcome too ( i m not gettin any younger ). I ve read quite a few reviews the last days and if it was not for that stupid sniper button i would have gone for the g502 already


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> I dont know if i have acceleration. I know its disabled in setings but i just dont know if i have any or if the mat effects acceleration. In addition, i dont know how to effectively use the xFACTOR. I read all about it anf i guess I'm too dumb to make sense on how to implement it for my mouse/mat/game.
> 
> Which mouse mat should i use?


The point of my post was that you change the settings as xFcator did and try that mouse testing software that comes with the fix.
The link for that fix you can find in the video's description.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> The point of my post was that you change the settings as xFcator did and try that mouse testing software that comes with the fix.
> The link for that fix you can find in the video's description.


This fix is for Win7. I'm on 8.1.


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> This fix is for Win7. I'm on 8.1.


There is afix for W8.1 on that link as well.
I am on W8.1 and i didn't have to use the fix since i am getting excellent results


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> There is afix for W8.1 on that link as well.
> I am on W8.1 and i didn't have to use the fix since i am getting excellent results


but what constitutes for excellent results? How do you test?


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> but what constitutes for excellent results? How do you test?


Wait a minute, have you even bothered to even watch the video or are you just trolling?
What I and @metal571 told you, you can see and hear in that video, which i will not post again.
For someone who thinks of him self as an advanced user, one would think that watching the video and contemplating about it wont be much of a problem.


----------



## K1NG

Currently looking for a new mouse as my Performance MX Mouse from Logitech is starting to doubleclick and such.

*1. What's your grip style?*

Grip style is palmer. I have big hands (8'' from bottom of palm to middle finger fingertip)

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Not terribly picky on this.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Around 100 USD but could potentially be stretched a bit if something really suited my needs

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Wouldn't need more than 10, but at least a few would be preferable

*5. What games do you play?*

League of Legends at the moment, maybe a few FPS's in the near future. I sorta follow what my friends are into at the moment. So versatility would be nice.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

I have no idea what this is.

*7. Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

As mentioned previously, I have rather large hands, so this is the primary factor in my decision.

Any suggestions? I live in Canada.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kronin*
> 
> Wait a minute, have you even bothered to even watch the video or are you just trolling?
> What I and @metal571 told you, you can see and hear in that video, which i will not post again.
> For someone who thinks of him self as an advanced user, one would think that watching the video and contemplating about it wont be much of a problem.


I have seen the video, part 1 &2.
Im using the same settings as xFACTOR.
Thanks for the help thus far. I'll keep on digging on the subject untill I'm convinced that I should replace the mouse after exhausting all options with my kone xtd.
Thank you all for the help and time!


----------



## Kronin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *K1NG*
> 
> Currently looking for a new mouse as my Performance MX Mouse from Logitech is starting to doubleclick and such.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Grip style is palmer. I have big hands (8'' from bottom of palm to middle finger fingertip)
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Not terribly picky on this.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Around 100 USD but could potentially be stretched a bit if something really suited my needs
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Wouldn't need more than 10, but at least a few would be preferable
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> League of Legends at the moment, maybe a few FPS's in the near future. I sorta follow what my friends are into at the moment. So versatility would be nice.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I have no idea what this is.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> As mentioned previously, I have rather large hands, so this is the primary factor in my decision.
> 
> Any suggestions? I live in Canada.


When it comes to palm grip mice for big hands there isnt much choice, Cm Advance 2, Mionix Naos 7000, SS Rival and Roccat Kone XTD. My hand is 20,5 cm long and 10,5 cm wide so yeah I know that feeling
However none of them are declared as mice for RPG/MMO.
Since I have Cm Advance 2 I can tell you that it comes with 8 programmable buttons but some of them are located in a bit harder to reach areas , they are not really comfortable to constantly use while gaming, after all see for yourself:



But there is one more thing, Advance 2 comes with the software that lets you use Storm TX button (back thumb button) which can give you up to 9 virtual buttons (Storm TX + "some other button"= new virtual button ) so If I were you I would consider it.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Khelben*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?* Palm /Fingertip hybrid
> 
> *2.What's your sensitivity?* Comfortable with anything between 1000-1500
> 
> *3.What's your maximum budget?* Well if i can find something that ll serve me as faithfully as my mx518 and for that many years,i dont mind goin as high as 100 Euros
> 
> *4.Do you want additional buttons?* Yes two side buttons is what i am looking for. Dpi buttons would be nice too but not a dealbreaker. Too many side buttons(3+) are also a no-go.
> 
> *5.What games do you play?* Dota2 mainly. WoW/D3 and some grand strategy games from time to time too.
> 
> *6.Do you mind about prediction?* Yes i really want to avoid it if possible.
> 
> *7.Other relevant information:* I m right handed with fairly large fingers and for the past 10 years or so i ve only used 2 different mice that basically share the same design.Mx518 and the G5. That kind of shape is what i m looking for. I dont mind heavy mice but a lighter one would be welcome too ( i m not gettin any younger ). I ve read quite a few reviews the last days and if it was not for that stupid sniper button i would have gone for the g502 already


What about the 'sniper button'? Got the mouse for a week or so. Button doesn't get in the way. I actually bound 'mouse3' to it since I never liked to press down the scroll wheel in any kind of game. Comes really handy and never gets in the way. Even though my thumb touches that button I never press it accidentally while lifting the mouse or w/e.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *K1NG*
> 
> Currently looking for a new mouse as my Performance MX Mouse from Logitech is starting to doubleclick and such.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Grip style is palmer. I have big hands (8'' from bottom of palm to middle finger fingertip)
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Not terribly picky on this.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Around 100 USD but could potentially be stretched a bit if something really suited my needs
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Wouldn't need more than 10, but at least a few would be preferable
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> League of Legends at the moment, maybe a few FPS's in the near future. I sorta follow what my friends are into at the moment. So versatility would be nice.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I have no idea what this is.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> As mentioned previously, I have rather large hands, so this is the primary factor in my decision.
> 
> Any suggestions? I live in Canada.


Go to a shop and put your hand on a Logitech G602. It's a wireless mouse as your old Performance Mouse MX and it has enough side buttons. It felt very comfortable to me.


----------



## Khelben

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> What about the 'sniper button'? Got the mouse for a week or so. Button doesn't get in the way. I actually bound 'mouse3' to it since I never liked to press down the scroll wheel in any kind of game. Comes really handy and never gets in the way. Even though my thumb touches that button I never press it accidentally while lifting the mouse or w/e.


That sounds somewhat reassuring. In comparison to the left and right buttons how much force would you say it actually takes to click it?


----------



## hza

Force you need to click left and right mouse button feels very similar, if not the same to me.


----------



## Khelben

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Force you need to click left and right mouse button feels very similar, if not the same to me.


Sorry if i wasnt clear. I meant right/left button in comparison to sniper button.


----------



## staircase0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *staircase0*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* claw
> *What's your sensitivity?* Don't know atm.
> *What's your maximum budget?* Around 65€
> *Do you want additional buttons?* I wan't DPI changing buttons and thumb 'forward/back'' buttons.
> *What games do you play?* Mostly BF3, BF4. Also play games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect + some RTS.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*Probably not.
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> * I would like to not to be annoyed by pressing some unneeded buttons.
> 
> * I have above average sized hand ~20cm fingertips to wrist.
> 
> * I currently use M705 wireless mouse. It is quite good for my grip style, but it's too short and also, i would like maybe wider mouse.
> Problem is that i have my ring finger and pinky scrambled in one place on the right side of the mouse. So i am thinking maybe Mionix NAOS mouse would fix that ergonomic issue. But what i like about my claw/finger tip grip is that when i play BF or some other shooter, i can fine tune my crosshair up and down, moving my fingers relative to my hand. So i am interested if it is possible with a mouse like NAOS 7000?
> 
> * I am looking for precise and robust sensor/software. Also overall built quality is on the top of my list.


I am thinking maybe Avior 7000, NAOS 7000, or ROCCAT XTD, ROCCAT Pure.

Also, i have played some 20h on Corsair M60 and it didn't like the grip. According to the scale i have around XL hands, but M60 felt like a big potato in my hands.. Too high, but low grip for moving the mouse and not so good for lifting. Altough, M705 is rather high and it has quite good ergonomics for me.

Any suggestions?

Edited grip. - mostly claw grip.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Khelben*
> 
> Sorry if i wasnt clear. I meant right/left button in comparison to sniper button.


It's similar or maybe a bit heavier, but the "travel space" or what you call that is longer as it should be, I guess. Go to a shop (if possible) and try it out yourself. I find the whole mouse very comfortable.


----------



## Agoniizing

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip/Palm. Mostly fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* Low sens, 11 inch 360 in FPS games
*What's your maximum budget?* $50
*Do you want additional buttons?* Just a DPI switch
*What games do you play?* Just FPS
*Do you mind about prediction?* I want no prediction
*Other relevant information:* Must be ambidextrous, lightweight preferred, wired only, rubber texture preferred, low lift off distance preferred, I also have 9 inch hands from wrist to tip of middle finger. *Must have optical sensor*


----------



## philhalo66

*What's your grip style?* claw grip
*What's your sensitivity?* not sure, my last gaming mouse was 2000 DPI I don't want to go below that.
*What's your maximum budget?* lol about 30 bucks
*Do you want additional buttons?* i don't really care
*What games do you play?* anything from Left 4 dead 2 to Battlefield 4
*Do you mind about prediction?* i have no idea what that is.
*Other relevant information*: i want the same button force my razer copperhead has. Also i'd prefer the same or very close to the shape my copperhead was. It has to be optical or infrared.


----------



## r3lived

What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *around 2.5-3...i prefer low sensitivity, been playing ET for years that way*
What's your maximum budget? *$80*
Do you want additional buttons? *not a necessity. would prefer without ones, but not a deal breaker.*
What games do you play? *Mainly going to be playing CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *If I understand this question correctly I really don't mind it. been playing with cheap crappy mouses for a long time.*
Other relevant information: *Design, as in aesthetics is important to me.Mainly I have been looking at these three mouses: Steelseries Sensei Raw Frost edition which I could get for $68, Steelseries Kinzu V2 Pro which I could get for $39 and Razer Taipan which would still cost me around $90 but there just something I really love about that design and I have heard really good things about Razer software....OH, and I at the moment I am using my macbook pro retina for gaming (don't ask) so I would need the compatible drivers with MAC*
BONUS: just for ****s and giggles and maybe some insight on what I have been using previously, here is the mouse I was using for the last 5-6 years for gaming:
http://www.game-debate.com/mouse/index.php?mo_id=362&mouse=Logitech%20RX300
at 140 x 65 x 55 cm seems like it's quite bigger than all the mouses I have mentioned previously and this has been a really really comfortable mouse for me.


----------



## metal571

I'm confused about how you guys can be a claw and fingertip hybrid. Claw is defined as fingertip with the palm resting against the back of the mouse, that is pure claw. You might need to revise your posts to reflect that unless your grip really is different than that or you use claw sometimes and fingertip other times


----------



## r3lived

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm confused about how you guys can be a claw and fingertip hybrid. Claw is defined as fingertip with the palm resting against the back of the mouse, that is pure claw. You might need to revise your posts to reflect that unless your grip really is different than that or you use claw sometimes and fingertip other times


Revised my post. I was just a bit confused with differences between those two. Sometimes I would catch myself resting my palm against the mouse but my fingers would still not be in a claw like position. But still most of the time my palm is not against the mouse. Thanks for clearing it up!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3lived*
> 
> Revised my post. I was just a bit confused with differences between those two. Sometimes I would catch myself resting my palm against the mouse but my fingers would still not be in a claw like position. But still most of the time my palm is not against the mouse. Thanks for clearing it up!


No problem, I just saw a lot of people posting fingertip/claw which is strange because they are distinctly different. What you described first was pure palm (back of hand against the mouse, fingers resting on the whole body of the mouse without clawing), then you described fingertip (any grip where you don't rest your palm against the back of the mouse)


----------



## r3lived

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> No problem, I just saw a lot of people posting fingertip/claw which is strange because they are distinctly different. What you described first was pure palm (back of hand against the mouse, fingers resting on the whole body of the mouse without clawing), then you described fingertip (any grip where you don't rest your palm against the back of the mouse)


definitely finger tip :nod: won't go into more detail about it but I just really don't like palm grip. Sometimes it's difficult to express myself the way I intend to since English is not my mother tongue. either way, thanks again


----------



## ithehappy

Guys sorry for this stupid question. The length from my middle finger top to the bottom of my palm is 18.5 cm. Is this considered to be a small or medium sized hand? I suppose it's not big as I am just 5'10"


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ithehappy*
> 
> Guys sorry for this stupid question. The length from my middle finger top to the bottom of my palm is 18.5 cm. Is this considered to be a small or medium sized hand? I suppose it's not big as I am just 5'10"


I'm 19 cm and I feel like I have pretty big hands, just above average though apparently


----------



## ithehappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm 19 cm and I feel like I have pretty big hands, just above average though apparently


Oh okay, so it's not small, it's more like medium then, I suppose


----------



## HexTech

*What's your grip style?* Palm/Claw
*What's your sensitivity?* 800 DPI for FPS/osu!, 1600 DPI for general use and anything else. (~17cm/360 in CS:GO with an in-game sens of 4)
*What's your maximum budget?* No limit.
*Do you want additional buttons?* Preferably just 2 side buttons, but anything is up for consideration.
*What games do you play?* Some of everything. CS:GO and other Valve FPS, Payday2 / osu! / WoW / LoL, Dota2
*Do you mind about prediction?* Against it. So, yes.
*Other relevant information:* I've been using a '12 naga (with much frustration







) for a year or 2 now and would like to completely step in another direction.
Looking for something ambidextrous, has adjustable or low LOD, is lightweight (or atleast <=100g), and wired. Not looking to use another laser mouse. Hands are 18cm from middle finger tip to base of palm and my middle finger length is 9cm. I use a PureTrak Talent as my main pad.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HexTech*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Palm/Claw
> *What's your sensitivity?* 800 DPI for FPS/osu!, 1600 DPI for general use and anything else. (~17cm/360 in CS:GO with an in-game sens of 4)
> *What's your maximum budget?* No limit.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Preferably just 2 side buttons, but anything is up for consideration.
> *What games do you play?* Some of everything. CS:GO and other Valve FPS, Payday2 / osu! / WoW / LoL, Dota2
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Against it. So, yes.
> *Other relevant information:* I've been using a '12 naga (with much frustration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) for a year or 2 now and would like to completely step in another direction.
> Looking for something ambidextrous, has adjustable or low LOD, is lightweight (or atleast <=100g), and wired. Not looking to use another laser mouse. Hands are 18cm from middle finger tip to base of palm and my middle finger length is 9cm. I use a PureTrak Talent as my main pad.


Avior 7000, FK1, those are mostly for claw/fingertip and won't work too well for palm. I also use a Talent with my Avior 7000 but I am a pure fingertip.


----------



## Trysaeder

Looking for an ergonomic mouse that's reasonably priced to replace my sensei whose scroll wheel is starting to annoy me.

What's your grip style?
Palm/claw - I can use both. Distance between where the middle finger and ring finger sits can't be too big like the sensei.

What's your sensitivity?
Low-medium (30-40cm/360)

What's your maximum budget?
Pretty flexible, but probably not over $70. If it's perfect then I'll be willing to pay.

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, at least 1 thumb button. 2 is ideal.

What games do you play?
CSGO, BF4, dota, other random stuff

Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction please

Other relevant information:
LOD should be lowish
MUST be right handed (17cm from middle finger to wrist)
As light as possible
Ideally light click force but that's not mandatory
Good macro capabilities
Will most likely be using it on the Artisan Shidenkai
No logitech kidney bean shape
Preferably has 800dpi as an option

Tentatively considering the corsair m45. Anything bad I should know about it?

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## milkean

• What's your grip style?
Fingertip/Palm hybrid - have been using razer deathadder for over 4 years.
• What's your sensitivity?
In razer synapse its 700 dpi - LOW, everyone tells me it's moving slowly.
• What's your maximum budget?
100$
• Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 for thumb, don't mind additional
• What games do you play?
It changes, now it's Diablo 3, but it might be some FPS or MMORPG, RTS.
• Do you mind about prediction?
I didn't even know about it until today, so it's not important for me.
• Other relevant information:
I liked right-handed shape of Deathadder - must be right-handed.
Hand length is 19cm.
Must be wireless!
Current mouse feels like low activation button force and I like it that way.


----------



## bond10

Hello,

I have a deathadder 2013 and I don't like the input lag (my 10 year old IE 3.0 and 3 year old kinzu v2 pro feel way more snappy).

What's your grip style?
Palm or claw, I adapt (I've used kinzu and an IE 3.0 just fine)

What's your sensitivity?
31 cm for a 360. 400-500 dpi

What's your maximum budget?
$65

Do you want additional buttons?
Don't care for this, but a thumb button would be useful

What games do you play?
CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I HATE prediction

Other relevant information:
The most important thing is zero or close to zero input lag. I could feel the drag/sluggishness in the deathadder 2013 (since March updates?).
I do not care for high PC and MF speeds. 2 m/s is enough (I use a somewhat high sensitivity and have used intellimouse for over 10 years)
Small ambidextrous mouse is preferred, but not as important as the two points above
Good for dry hands (the rubber sides on the deathadder 2013 were incredible, the glossy finish on EC1 Evo was incredible, the Deathadder Black Edition was too slippery)
Good tracking, no jitter, no prediction, no hardware accel, and stable 500hz
I do not care for switch types as I'm an FPS gamer.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have a deathadder 2013 and I don't like the input lag (my 10 year old IE 3.0 and 3 year old kinzu v2 pro feel way more snappy).
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm or claw, I adapt (I've used kinzu and an IE 3.0 just fine)
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 31 cm for a 360. 400-500 dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $65
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Don't care for this, but a thumb button would be useful
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I HATE prediction
> 
> Other relevant information:
> The most important thing is zero or close to zero input lag. I could feel the drag/sluggishness in the deathadder 2013 (since March updates?).
> I do not care for high PC and MF speeds. 2 m/s is enough (I use a somewhat high sensitivity and have used intellimouse for over 10 years)
> Small ambidextrous mouse is preferred, but not as important as the two points above
> Good for dry hands (the rubber sides on the deathadder 2013 were incredible, the glossy finish on EC1 Evo was incredible, the Deathadder Black Edition was too slippery)
> Good tracking, no jitter, no prediction, no hardware accel, and stable 500hz
> I do not care for switch types as I'm an FPS gamer.


Try the Steelseries Rival it right around your budget and a better sensor than the deathadder 2013


----------



## milkean

"• What's your grip style?
Fingertip/Palm hybrid - have been using razer deathadder for over 4 years.
• What's your sensitivity?
In razer synapse its 700 dpi - LOW, everyone tells me it's moving slowly.
• What's your maximum budget?
100$
• Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 for thumb, don't mind additional
• What games do you play?
It changes, now it's Diablo 3, but it might be some FPS or MMORPG, RTS.
• Do you mind about prediction?
I didn't even know about it until today, so it's not important for me.
• Other relevant information:
I liked right-handed shape of Deathadder - must be right-handed.
Hand length is 19cm.
Must be wireless!
Current mouse feels like low activation button force and I like it that way."

I've done some research and it seems that Logitech G602 suits me quite well. I'll go check it out today in shop.
What do you think about this mouse?


----------



## turnschuh

If you must have a wireless mouse the g602 is the best one you can get (after reading in this forum)


----------



## MiniMaster

I currently own the G502 and wanted to know what mousepad you'd recommend to go with it? I much prefer soft mousepads and am a palm gripper not sure if that helps. i play mainly FPS games. I will be upgrading from a $5 darthmaul mousepad i got a long time ago.

Thanks!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiniMaster*
> 
> I currently own the G502 and wanted to know what mousepad you'd recommend to go with it? I much prefer soft mousepads and am a palm gripper not sure if that helps. i play mainly FPS games. I will be upgrading from a $5 darthmaul mousepad i got a long time ago.
> 
> Thanks!


I usually recommend the QcK Heavy. Just an awesome and durable pad and also great for first time super large sized cloth mat users.


----------



## Sporkisian

Hey guys I'm looking for a new mouse, been using my deathadder for a while now but it's to big for my hands, I can't make use of the side buttons comfortably. I'd really like to get a new mouse so I can start taking advantage of things like side buttons.
I don't want anything like a million LEDs or a million extra buttons, something simple preferably. also must be wired, I can't stand wireless.

*What's your grip style?*
I use a Palm type grip with my wrist resting on the mousepad/table. I have small hands as well

*What's your sensitivity?*
I honestly can't remember what my sensitivity settings are atm but I currently use a deathadder black edition

*What's your maximum budget?*
No budget restraints

*Do you want additional buttons?*
I'd like to have a couple on the side. Something for back/forward etc but nothing to over the top like a naga

*What games do you play?*
Currently league of legends, bf4, WoW and starcraft 2. Lots of other occasional games as well

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Honestly don't know much about it, it's sounds like it would annoy me


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sporkisian*
> 
> Hey guys I'm looking for a new mouse, been using my deathadder for a while now but it's to big for my hands, I can't make use of the side buttons comfortably. I'd really like to get a new mouse so I can start taking advantage of things like side buttons.
> I don't want anything like a million LEDs or a million extra buttons, something simple preferably. also must be wired, I can't stand wireless.
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I use a Palm type grip with my wrist resting on the mousepad/table. I have small hands as well
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> I honestly can't remember what my sensitivity settings are atm but I currently use a deathadder black edition
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> No budget restraints
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I'd like to have a couple on the side. Something for back/forward etc but nothing to over the top like a naga
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Currently league of legends, bf4, WoW and starcraft 2. Lots of other occasional games as well
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Honestly don't know much about it, it's sounds like it would annoy me


Hm coming from that - did you try the Roccat Kone Pure Military yet ? The Military version since it has the superior Sensor - just get the Navy one if you don't like the olive look like me. Roccat shares the following measurements on their product page: Max. width 7cm /(2.75inches) x approx. 12cm max. length (4.72 inches).

The Shell is smaller then the Savu and most likely the Deathadder so it might be perfect for small hands (maybe you have to result to an Palm/Claw-Grip Hybrid). I felt it was really small when testing it. Way to small for my hands, but in the end each hand is different.

However I didn't use a Deathadder myself so take that advice with care - maybe just order one online where you can return it or go to a local store and test it out yourself. Another one might be the Steelseries Kinzu V2 but I read that some countries have difficulties acquiring one - also that one has no side-buttons that is.

Other then that - if you only play RTS-Games and don't need an Optical Sensor (I'd still suggest one for the occasional FPS-Games) you might want to look into the Steelseries Sensei [RAW].


----------



## Sporkisian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> Hm coming from that - did you try the Roccat Kone Pure Military yet ? The Military version since it has the superior Sensor - just get the Navy one if you don't like the olive look like me. Roccat shares the following measurements on their product page: Max. width 7cm /(2.75inches) x approx. 12cm max. length (4.72 inches).
> 
> The Shell is smaller then the Savu and most likely the Deathadder so it might be perfect for small hands (maybe you have to result to an Palm/Claw-Grip Hybrid). I felt it was really small when testing it. Way to small for my hands, but in the end each hand is different.
> 
> However I didn't use a Deathadder myself so take that advice with care - maybe just order one online where you can return it or go to a local store and test it out yourself. Another one might be the Steelseries Kinzu V2 but I read that some countries have difficulties acquiring one - also that one has no side-buttons that is.
> 
> Other then that - if you only play RTS-Games and don't need an Optical Sensor (I'd still suggest one for the occasional FPS-Games) you might want to look into the Steelseries Sensei [RAW].


I was looking into the roccat Kone [+] at the moment but haven't researched it as much as I would like (I'm on mobile).
I'll have a look into the kinzu and see how I feel about that, will be heading to a local shop tomorrow to try out what they have but I'm in aus so it's pretty hard to get anything other than online.
I play a reasonable amount of fps casually so I'd like to stick to having and optical.
Thanks for the help


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sporkisian*
> 
> I was looking into the roccat Kone [+] at the moment but haven't researched it as much as I would like (I'm on mobile).
> I'll have a look into the kinzu and see how I feel about that, will be heading to a local shop tomorrow to try out what they have but I'm in aus so it's pretty hard to get anything other than online.
> I play a reasonable amount of fps casually so I'd like to stick to having and optical.
> Thanks for the help


The Kone [+] is the previous model of the XTD so I don't think it 's made for small hands and I also think it has a Laser sensor I'm not sure thought. I'd absolutely try the Kone Pure Military or Optical instead - you can try the Kone Pure as well as far as I know their shape is identical.


----------



## Sporkisian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> The Kone [+] is the previous model of the XTD so I don't think it 's made for small hands and I also think it has a Laser sensor I'm not sure thought. I'd absolutely try the Kone Pure Military or Optical instead - you can try the Kone Pure as well as far as I know their shape is identical.


Yeah I just did a bit more research and the kone [+] is out, not what I initially thought, so far from what I've read the military is what I'm looking for, just a shame about that ridiculous camo look. I'll also have to order it online as no where local stocks anything roccat let alone the military

EDIT: I'm looking at the kone pure optical as well, I would prefer to order off this site: www.pccasegear.com and they don't stick the military. Main reason I want to order from there is because I'll be getting a few other things as well so this cuts back on postage costs


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sporkisian*
> 
> Yeah I just did a bit more research and the kone [+] is out, not what I initially thought, so far from what I've read the military is what I'm looking for, just a shame about that ridiculous camo look. I'll also have to order it online as no where local stocks anything roccat let alone the military
> 
> EDIT: I'm looking at the kone pure optical as well, I would prefer to order off this site: www.pccasegear.com and they don't stick the military. Main reason I want to order from there is because I'll be getting a few other things as well so this cuts back on postage costs


Yea just get the optical then. The ADNS3090-Sensor in it is by no means a bad sensor ...

Btw. I just found this comparison picture from this Roccat Kone Pure Military Review Thread which might interest you in terms of size differences:


----------



## justyourimage

Edit:

Weird my post just got deleted ? Didn't get a PM or anything, and can't find any info in my board either.

Just read that it would get moderated but afterwards it told me that it was deleted ...

Anyway here it goes again - sorry if it 's a mistake @ admins I'm not sure what was wrong with the previous post.

See here - Roccat Kone Pure Military Review Thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1499343/roccat-kone-pure-military-review

There 's a picture in this thread comparing the Deathadder and Kone Pure size:



Cheers!

Edit 2:

Just get the Optical then it 's good as well. The sensor is by no means bad.


----------



## Sporkisian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Weird my post just got deleted ? Didn't get a PM or anything, and can't find any info in my board either.
> 
> Just read that it would get moderated but afterwards it told me that it was deleted ...
> 
> Anyway here it goes again - sorry if it 's a mistake @ admins I'm not sure what was wrong with the previous post.
> 
> See here - Roccat Kone Pure Military Review Thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1499343/roccat-kone-pure-military-review
> 
> There 's a picture in this thread comparing the Deathadder and Kone Pure size:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Edit 2:
> 
> Just get the Optical then it 's good as well. The sensor is by no means bad.


Looks like the optical it is, unless in Tue next 24 hours or so I change my mind again, I tend to do it a lot.

Oh wow that's tiny compared to the deathadder, should be perfect for me I think, will see if I can find somewhere local to try it but I doubt it. Thanks heaps for the help


----------



## ChevChelios

I would try and get the Military for the 3310 sensor, but the Optical can work too

the XTD Optical doesn't have the 3310 sensor, yet it doesn't feel any worse then the 3310 or even 3366 to me

I trust Roccats sensors and their mice


----------



## MoPs

What's your grip style? palm / fingertip
What's your sensitivity? high
What's your maximum budget? 100
Do you want additional buttons? yes, its for video editing (and for gaming in second place)
What games do you play? lol , cs, arma2
Do you mind about prediction? yes
Other relevant information: the more buttons the better, but i would hate a mouse as tall as razer naga.

i looked at thermaltake volos , and i liked it, and it seems it has a good sensor
keep in mind that video editing is my priority and i need buttons for the shortcuts.

my mouse for the last 4 years has been microsoft 1.1a (the one that does not have buttons at the sides) and i really like the shape


----------



## dismas

Please recommend me a new mouse. My beloved Razer Salmosa finally died.

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 1800 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? yes, at least 2 side buttons
What games do you play? RTS, FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Do not want prediction
Other relevant information: Prefer driverless, onboard memory, lightweight, braided cord, no acceleration


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoPs*
> 
> What's your grip style? palm / fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? high
> What's your maximum budget? 100
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, its for video editing (and for gaming in second place)
> What games do you play? lol , cs, arma2
> Do you mind about prediction? yes
> Other relevant information: the more buttons the better, but i would hate a mouse as tall as razer naga.
> 
> i looked at thermaltake volos , and i liked it, and it seems it has a good sensor
> keep in mind that video editing is my priority and i need buttons for the shortcuts.
> 
> my mouse for the last 4 years has been microsoft 1.1a (the one that does not have buttons at the sides) and i really like the shape


That 's going to be hard - you basically want an MMO mouse with many buttons plus and Optical Sensor. There 's pretty few that fit your profile I think, the most of them being from Logitech.

*The best option I think would probably be the Logitech G502* if you want one of best optical sensors as well as many buttons in one mouse (11 programmable ones that is).

The only downside is it 's thumb-rest (in my opinion) and maybe some little things that aren't that important to the sheer performance but only being nit-picky. The *Logitech G602* has a different shape and is wireless (with a claimed running time of 250 hours) but has 11 buttons as well if you'd like a wireless one that is - but at least it 's using an Optical Sensor unlike the G700s (Beware - Prediction!). The only other optical mice beside the Kone XTD that comes to my mind with a big amount of bindable buttons would be the *Roccat Kone Pure Optical or Military* (the last one having a better sensor) *due to their Easy Shift feature where you can bind all buttons twice* but it 's a bit small so if you have medium or big hands and want to palm-grip then you might get difficulties.

I've searched if I'd find anything else but I guess there aren't any alternatives beside those with many buttons and an optical sensor without prediction / acceleration.









##########################################
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dismas*
> 
> Please recommend me a new mouse. My beloved Razer Salmosa finally died.
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 1800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $100
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, at least 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? RTS, FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? Do not want prediction
> Other relevant information: Prefer driverless, onboard memory, lightweight, braided cord, no acceleration


There 's three + two (which I didn't test yet) mice that came to my mind:


*Mionix Naos 7000 or Mionix Avior 7000*. Those seem to have the best build quality and seem to be made with the most care. They also implement one of the best optical sensors to date. However I didn't test them yet since I have no need for a new mouse at the moment. So I can't fully recommend them yet. I'd still try them first if I would be you thought since they also have pretty good support as to what I've read (search the Mice-Subforum here for further infos on both of them).
*Steelseries Rival*. My personal favorite combining the best of both worlds of Roccat (=Important Features) and Zowie (= Shape / Button Minimalism)
*Roccat Kone Pure Military* if you want more customizations and a smaller shape.
*Zowie FK(1)* especially if you're a purist. In my opinion it 's a waste for the sensor thought, because it has the ability to be natively adjusted in 50 DPI steps but Zowie ditches that completely as there 's only 4 DPI-Steps via a Hardware Switch - 400/800/1.600/3.200 DPI. It really makes me sad because I really like the shape of that one.


----------



## AMW1011

-What's your grip style?
Palm, but I'm not against learning to use a claw grip.
-What's your sensitivity?
1200-800.
-What's your maximum budget?
No more than $60.
-Do you want additional buttons?
Not required, but a couple wouldn't hurt.
-What games do you play?
RTS and some FPS
-Do you mind about prediction?
I think that I want no prediction and no acceleration.
-Other relevant information:
I currently have a DA black edition which I liked well enough, but it has some issues. My scroll wheel is broken and sometimes inputs the opposite of what I intend. Also the cord is absolutely awful. I'd like the best build mouse possible, preferably with a very pliable cord.


----------



## Pharo212

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your maximum budget?
$100 would probably be too much, anything under is fine.
Do you want additional buttons?
I'm upgrading from a naga (I know, kind of a poor choice but I was foolish) and I'm used to having around 4 buttons for abilities or weapons right there, so it'd be nice if I could keep that.
What games do you play?
Dota 2, various FPS, and occasional strategy stuff that probably doesn't need much mousing.
Do you mind about prediction?
It's not incredibly crucial but optical is a plus.
Other relevant information:
Driverless would be great, failling that onboard memory. I want to be able to use it across computers and OSes without too much trouble.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!


----------



## Trysaeder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dismas*
> 
> Please recommend me a new mouse. My beloved Razer Salmosa finally died.
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 1800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $100
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, at least 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? RTS, FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? Do not want prediction
> Other relevant information: Prefer driverless, onboard memory, lightweight, braided cord, no acceleration


Corsair m40 or m45 has all your points. If you've ever held a g9 it's got a similar shape but has a better sensor and lighter weight


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pharo212*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100 would probably be too much, anything under is fine.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I'm upgrading from a naga (I know, kind of a poor choice but I was foolish) and I'm used to having around 4 buttons for abilities or weapons right there, so it'd be nice if I could keep that.
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2, various FPS, and occasional strategy stuff that probably doesn't need much mousing.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> It's not incredibly crucial but optical is a plus.
> Other relevant information:
> Driverless would be great, failling that onboard memory. I want to be able to use it across computers and OSes without too much trouble.
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions!


Naos 7000, except for having lots of side buttons. You could program the CPI up/down buttons to do something other than change CPI though. Another possibility is the Rival, but it is not built as well.


----------



## Pharo212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Naos 7000, except for having lots of side buttons. You could program the CPI up/down buttons to do something other than change CPI though. Another possibility is the Rival, but it is not built as well.


Does that have onboard memory for DPI settings and so on?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pharo212*
> 
> Does that have onboard memory for DPI settings and so on?


Like the Avior, whatever settings you save in it will be stored between machines.


----------



## 122512

Hey guys! Looking to get a new mouse within the month as my Microsoft Mouse 4000 mouse wheel is really starting to fail hard.

What's your grip style?

Fingertip.

What's your sensitivity?

My last two mice have been 1000 dpi and that seems just great for me. Around there would be nice.

What's your maximum budget?

The lower, the better of course. No more than 100$. ~50$ sounds like a sweet spot for me.

Do you want additional buttons?

I don't really need much. Just need a "back" button. Otherwise, any extra buttons are a bonus.

What games do you play?

MOBAs like LoL or DoTa, FPSes, and MMOs.

Do you mind about prediction?

Yes. I highly prefer none.

Other relevant information:

I would REALLY prefer if the mouse is small (my last mouses were a Microsoft Mouse 1000, and a 4000, both quite small mouses and I love the small size as it lets me get far more leverage. Also would love a low LOD distance and wireless would be a big bonus.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elemein*
> 
> Hey guys! Looking to get a new mouse within the month as my Microsoft Mouse 4000 mouse wheel is really starting to fail hard.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> My last two mice have been 1000 dpi and that seems just great for me. Around there would be nice.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> The lower, the better of course. No more than 100$. ~50$ sounds like a sweet spot for me.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I don't really need much. Just need a "back" button. Otherwise, any extra buttons are a bonus.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> MOBAs like LoL or DoTa, FPSes, and MMOs.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes. I highly prefer none.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I would REALLY prefer if the mouse is small (my last mouses were a Microsoft Mouse 1000, and a 4000, both quite small mouses and I love the small size as it lets me get far more leverage. Also would love a low LOD distance and wireless would be a big bonus.


G100s sounds like it could work.


----------



## xeroaura

What's your grip style?
Claw grip. Can switch to finger one as well.
What's your sensitivity?
800-1200 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
Prefer under $75.
Do you want additional buttons?
Prefer 2-3 on left side for refresh/back/forward.
What games do you play?
League of Legends, Path of Exile.
Do you mind about prediction?
Ambivalent.
Other relevant information:
Prefer a mouse with a durable scroll wheel. Currently have a Perixx mx-2000ii but the wheel scroll makes an annoying squeaky noise. The mouse is slightly bigger than I would like as well.
The sides of the mouse (where my thumb for left and ring/pinky finger on right side rest) should be smooth rubber or plastic. My fingers get sweaty, and the Perixx mouse has some kind of rubber texture which builds up dead skin cells or something :[
Prefer some kind of software to change button functions.
If there is some kind of lighting, prefer customization for color.


----------



## Phos

I would suggest the CM spawn but it also has a tendency to pick up skin junk, and the scroll wheel in mine technically can rattle (though I have to pick it up and shake it),

At the moment I'm thinking a logitech G402. Not many nice have that deep a finger well on the pinky side.


----------



## zollos

*Hi everyone on ocn!*

First post and i want to say ... what an amazing site and forum this is !!

I've been here only a few weeks browsing threads where i learned alot already from alot of knowledgable people around here. so thank you!

The problem through all this various knowledge got me confused in what to pick as my next mouse haha. so if you guys could give me your view points or ideas i'd be thankfull.

*1. What's your grip style?*
mostly palm
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
400 cpi low to medium in game.
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
If it's worth it then it can be high in price.
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
jeah, maybe only the thumb buttons like mouse 3 / 4
*5. What games do you play?*
Used to be competitive Rtcw, now recreative ET, also played some quake and warsow
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes , i hate it.
*7. Other relevant information*:

I don't know if this is relevant or not but just to show i'm not a next door noob ( but hey it's ok everyone started like it!







) my k/d in a random session of ET public circa 20 minutes , is around 50/70 kils and 10-15 deaths with an 110-150 headshots.

current pad im using is the puretrak Talent.

hand is normal size hand, the ime 3.0 felt awesome.

Some background information:

I always used a intellimouse 3.0 which will probably be the best mouse i ever used and maybe existed?!... I challenged top euro clans in RTCW with it, the mouse was an extension of my arm really, it did exactly what i wanted.( after oc'ing it to 500 hz btw )

That mouse feeling was so so raw and pure , nothing ever came close to it. ( anir mousefix + winXp ) = win

pang pang pang pang, 1 2 down , then a quick flick, swiish , land EXACTLY on the head, bang bang bang, backraper dead.

Alas , i had to change one time to another mouse and friends were boasting you need to use higher dpi it's better for your aim! buy a razer DA !

So jeah years ago i bought a DA and tried the high dpi but it was nothing for me , i had good accuracies and such but it didn't feel pure anymore, i can't explain it. you need to experience it i guess Comes with it at that time i didn't even know the formula to calculate my own sensitivity adapted to the cpi i used before and the DA uses , so i stopped using it.

I also experienced in ET and some other games that there's a difference in bulletresponse with or without drivers installed with razer. but no problem i just uninstalled them and it was a tad more responsive on bulletresponse.

That last bit i actually experienced with any driver from any mouse, i also owned a mx518 used at 400cpi but that mouse died on me, it went on/off when i did really fast flicks. plus it always felt strange to me as well. accurate but not raw

and then recently couple of months ago i made a switch to a SS sensei also at 400cpi, god what have i done. It all looked so promising and it actually tracks really well at normal speeds but when i start doing quick flicks it's over, it lands 1-2 cm's next to target, the horror!









Well all these experiences are subjective to my gaming experience offcourse, i just wanted to share it with you guys. You are free to interpret what it means for you and in not any way i'm trashing those mice, it's just my situation.

Now i'm nearing my 30's so my focus on perfect game environment isn't so important anymore because well life is more then games/aim







but... when i still play i'd like to push my limits offcourse.

So preferable i seek a mouse that gives me the same raw feeling as before , preferably driverless or that a profile can be set up and saved in the mouse and then uninstalled. But most importantly it should have the ultimate tracking i had with the ime3.0 in low dpi, 400 to be exact or even an upgrade to *an even more pure feeling would be great !*

So i've been reading and comparing , reading and comparing and seeing which one has crappy internals or bad sensor and all that , and i'm coming out at logitech g402 or the SS Rival. , i rather want a g402 with g502 sensor tho if what i'm reading is correct.

Is there also a difference between the rivals optical sensor and the DA's ? is rivals an updated andvanced sensor or something ?

haha for those that stick through reading this, thank you!









What are you guys views about it ? or other recommendations ?

Thank you in advance !


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zollos*
> 
> *Hi everyone on ocn!*
> 
> First post and i want to say ... what an amazing site and forum this is !!
> 
> I've been here only a few weeks browsing threads where i learned alot already from alot of knowledgable people around here. so thank you!
> 
> The problem through all this various knowledge got me confused in what to pick as my next mouse haha. so if you guys could give me your view points or ideas i'd be thankfull.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> mostly palm
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 400 cpi low to medium in game.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> If it's worth it then it can be high in price.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> jeah, maybe only the thumb buttons like mouse 3 / 4
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Used to be competitive Rtcw, now recreative ET, also played some quake and warsow
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes , i hate it.
> *7. Other relevant information*:
> 
> I don't know if this is relevant or not but just to show i'm not a next door noob ( but hey it's ok everyone started like it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) my k/d in a random session of ET public circa 20 minutes , is around 50/70 kils and 10-15 deaths with an 110-150 headshots.
> 
> current pad im using is the puretrak Talent.
> 
> hand is normal size hand, the ime 3.0 felt awesome.
> 
> Some background information:
> 
> I always used a intellimouse 3.0 which will probably be the best mouse i ever used and maybe existed?!... I challenged top euro clans in RTCW with it, the mouse was an extension of my arm really, it did exactly what i wanted.( after oc'ing it to 500 hz btw )
> 
> That mouse feeling was so so raw and pure , nothing ever came close to it. ( anir mousefix + winXp ) = win
> 
> pang pang pang pang, 1 2 down , then a quick flick, swiish , land EXACTLY on the head, bang bang bang, backraper dead.
> 
> Alas , i had to change one time to another mouse and friends were boasting you need to use higher dpi it's better for your aim! buy a razer DA !
> 
> So jeah years ago i bought a DA and tried the high dpi but it was nothing for me , i had good accuracies and such but it didn't feel pure anymore, i can't explain it. you need to experience it i guess Comes with it at that time i didn't even know the formula to calculate my own sensitivity adapted to the cpi i used before and the DA uses , so i stopped using it.
> 
> I also experienced in ET and some other games that there's a difference in bulletresponse with or without drivers installed with razer. but no problem i just uninstalled them and it was a tad more responsive on bulletresponse.
> 
> That last bit i actually experienced with any driver from any mouse, i also owned a mx518 used at 400cpi but that mouse died on me, it went on/off when i did really fast flicks. plus it always felt strange to me as well. accurate but not raw
> 
> and then recently couple of months ago i made a switch to a SS sensei also at 400cpi, god what have i done. It all looked so promising and it actually tracks really well at normal speeds but when i start doing quick flicks it's over, it lands 1-2 cm's next to target, the horror!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well all these experiences are subjective to my gaming experience offcourse, i just wanted to share it with you guys. You are free to interpret what it means for you and in not any way i'm trashing those mice, it's just my situation.
> 
> Now i'm nearing my 30's so my focus on perfect game environment isn't so important anymore because well life is more then games/aim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but... when i still play i'd like to push my limits offcourse.
> 
> So preferable i seek a mouse that gives me the same raw feeling as before , preferably driverless or that a profile can be set up and saved in the mouse and then uninstalled. But most importantly it should have the ultimate tracking i had with the ime3.0 in low dpi, 400 to be exact or even an upgrade to *an even more pure feeling would be great !*
> 
> So i've been reading and comparing , reading and comparing and seeing which one has crappy internals or bad sensor and all that , and i'm coming out at logitech g402 or the SS Rival. , i rather want a g402 with g502 sensor tho if what i'm reading is correct.
> 
> Is there also a difference between the rivals optical sensor and the DA's ? is rivals an updated andvanced sensor or something ?
> 
> haha for those that stick through reading this, thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you guys views about it ? or other recommendations ?
> 
> Thank you in advance !


Go with the 402, very little smoothing in there. inb4 Max tells you to stick with the IME 3.0 cause the MLT04 is the only sensor anyone should use...which isn't true


----------



## Matirep

Hi guys, want to get a suggestion. Im between Rival or Sensei RAW. Know one of them is laser and the other optical, cant get mionix because customs office wont let the package be delivered (Im from Argentina).
There's a chance to get RAT 7 but readed here they die like flys.

What's your grip style? finger/palm.
What's your sensitivity? -
What's your maximum budget? same value on both
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, no, maybe.
What games do you play? MOBAs, RPGs, RTS and FPS.
Do you mind about prediction? I dont want prediction.

Think Im going to get Qck MASS with him.
Regards!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Matirep*
> 
> Hi guys, want to get a suggestion. Im between Rival or Sensei RAW. Know one of them is laser and the other optical, cant get mionix because customs office wont let the package be delivered (Im from Argentina).
> There's a chance to get RAT 7 but readed here they die like flys.
> 
> What's your grip style? finger/palm.
> What's your sensitivity? -
> What's your maximum budget? same value on both
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, no, maybe.
> What games do you play? MOBAs, RPGs, RTS and FPS.
> Do you mind about prediction? I dont want prediction.
> 
> Think Im going to get Qck MASS with him.
> Regards!


Definitely Rival if you're going with a QcK Mass. I would get the Heavy which is the same thing in thickness but as big as a QcK+...if you have the room. I would never use a Sensei on cloth as it was essentially designed to pair optimally with the 9HD and other hard mats.


----------



## Matirep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Definitely Rival if you're going with a QcK Mass. I would get the Heavy which is the same thing in thickness but as big as a QcK+...if you have the room. I would never use a Sensei on cloth as it was essentially designed to pair optimally with the 9HD and other hard mats.


Ok ok, ty for the qck answer








Have the room (my desk is 1,7 meters wide) but dunno if I need something of that size. What's the purpose on getting the Heavy?









EDIT: What about RAT 7?


----------



## Maximillion

Heavy is thicker, more durable/comfortable. More bang for your buck imo.


----------



## GameZForeverZ

1) What's your grip style?
*Claw*

What's your sensitivity?
*Not entirely sure, coming from a cheap mouse with no mouse pad*

What's your maximum budget?
*~ $60*

Do you want additional buttons?
*A few thumb buttons would be nice, but not required*

What games do you play?
*League of Legends*

Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't think I want any prediction*

Other relevant information:
*I have been considering the Logitech G100s, Zowie FK1, and the Cooler Master Storm Spawn.
From my wrist to the tip of my middle finger is about 7.5".

Here is a picture of my current mouse, it is from a combo kit.*
http://www.ashdistribution.co.uk/images/products/large/590-3710_04.jpg

https://ecs4.tokopedia.net/newimg/product-1/2014/4/25/3811460/3811460_3b970096-cc35-11e3-b8e3-09864908a8c2.jpg

*I am using a Cooler Master CMStorm Quickfire Rapid keyboard as well.

Thanks guys!*


----------



## Matirep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Heavy is thicker, more durable/comfortable. More bang for your buck imo.


Nop. 6mm on both mousepads (and I need that height). The difference between "Heavy" and "Mass" is surface area (length and width sizes), that's why I asked: that size must have a purpose.


----------



## ithehappy

Guys I bought a G400s yesterday, using it so far, really lovely mouse, but I can't have any comfort with it! So sad







I was playing Watch Dogs for an hour today, and found the mouse extremely uncomfortable! When I switch back to the Kone Pure the comfort is back.

Hmm! I think it's because of the shape, and of course the choice of material. I think I will give a try to the Avior 7000 ultimately. Does it have same soft coated material like the Kone Pure or is it smooth like the G400s?


----------



## maximus20895

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? I don't know, I have an old mouse. What I do know is that I turn the sensitivity down on most games.
What's your maximum budget? Around $60
Do you want additional buttons? Maybe two buttons or so. I really don't know what else I could use the buttons for. Maybe I would like more?
What games do you play? FPS mostly.
Do you mind about prediction? I don't think I would like that. I'm not really sure. Never had it before.
Other relevant information: I've been using the same mouse ever since the Pentium 4's came out..so it's been awhile since buying a new mouse.
I have tried the Death Adder and the 518 awhile back. I don't remember what I didn't like about the death adder, the 518 was just too big.

Here is the mouse I currently have:


----------



## Thenleron

1. What's your grip style?
-claw/fingertip (because I use really small mouse, genius xscroll)
2. What's your sensitivity?
- i really dont know... on windows my settings are 6/11 and dpi is what ever it is on the mice
3. What's your maximum budget?
- about 100$
4. Do you want additional buttons?
- well.. do i need them? I never had gaming mouse :/
5. What games do you play?
- Lol, diablo 3, warcraft 3, starcraft, cod, bf...
6. Do you mind about prediction?
- no prediction
7. Other relevant information:
- i want something with optical sensor....
in my country i can get one of these mice: razer (old abyssus 3.5, deathadder 2013, imperator, taipan, naga hex and 2014), steelseries (rival, kana v2, kinzu v2 pro, sensei), logitech (g series), roccat (savu, kova+)

thanks...


----------



## Nachoooo

*What's your grip style?* - fingertip/claw
*What's your sensitivity?* 1000 dpi
*What's your maximum budget?* 100$
*Do you want additional buttons?* 2 side buttons is all i need
*What games do you play?* RPG, FPS
*Do you mind about prediction?* do not want
*Other relevant information:* where to start;

- i dont mind optical if it is IR, i dont want to see the light reflect in my screen as it did with the G400s every time i picked it up, which i sent back because of it
- i like the little ledge on the right side of my G5, i lift my mouse with my thumb and ringfinger (i rest my pinky on my desk) so that ledge is something i really got used to
- no ambidextrous mice, they usually have buttons on the right side which would only get in my way
- no flawed sensors, no wireless mice, no mice that make a high pitched noise like the G500s, my ears would definitely pick that up
- no sniper button, 2 buttons above my thumb is all i want really, sniper buttons will get accidentally pressed when i lift up my mouse and just annoy the hell out of me
- grippy surface, i tried the Kone XTD but i kept loosing grip, that rubber coating is way too smooth for my dry hands, i just felt the mouse slipping away every time i tried to lift it, so i returned it
- scroll wheel feedback, i dont like the hyperfast logitech wheels they have on some of their mice
- it being similar to my G5 in general, used a MX500 before it and just like the shape and feel of them after so many years

ive looked at tons of mice, and usually theres always something wrong about them, the Logitech G402/G502's sniper button, the razer's low durability in general and the crappy philips sensor on the Imperator 4G, roccat's way too smooth rubber coating, Steelseries buttons on the right side and ambidextrous shape, coolermaster reaper looked decent, but again, that damn sniper button..

so i finally stumbled on the Corsair M45 which looked promising, even has a little ledge on the right side, good IR sensor, grippy sides, but one thing worried me, the rubber coating on top which they refer to as "soft touch", is it soft like the Kone XTD's ultra smooth rubber or just soft but still grippy rubber like the sides of the mx500?

also looked at the Mionix mice but im not sure how good that ringfinger/pinky rest is for low-sense gamers that have to lift the mouse quite often, i dont palm my mouse so i kind of avoided them

getting a bit desperate to be honest, wonder if im just too demanding or there simply isnt a mouse which would fit my needs, but if its something i have to hold alot in the next few years i want it to feel right


----------



## zollos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Go with the 402, very little smoothing in there. inb4 Max tells you to stick with the IME 3.0 cause the MLT04 is the only sensor anyone should use...which isn't true


Go with the 402, very little smoothing in there. inb4 Max tells you to stick with the IME 3.0 cause the MLT04 is the only sensor anyone should use...which isn't true

Thank you for your reply Metal571 . Pitty it's the only answer thusfar. It seems this thread doesn't get much attention with all the numerous mouse requests









Ive been reading the g402 thread a bit although nowhere i can find if the malfunction speed of the mouse is high enough so i can use it without the additional software. The gyrometer or something

What is your view on that? is it really necessary to use the extra softwarepakket or is it possible to plug and play? Im a mouse flick user so it's like 20/360 cm , like half of a puretrak talent.

Greetings


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zollos*
> 
> Go with the 402, very little smoothing in there. inb4 Max tells you to stick with the IME 3.0 cause the MLT04 is the only sensor anyone should use...which isn't true
> 
> Thank you for your reply Metal571 . Pitty it's the only answer thusfar. It seems this thread doesn't get much attention with all the numerous mouse requests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ive been reading the g402 thread a bit although nowhere i can find if the malfunction speed of the mouse is high enough so i can use it without the additional software. The gyrometer or something
> 
> What is your view on that? is it really necessary to use the extra softwarepakket or is it possible to plug and play? Im a mouse flick user so it's like 20/360 cm , like half of a puretrak talent.
> 
> Greetings


That's a much higher sens than I use, you'll be fine. In the X direction there's pretty much no limit to how fast you can track, and in the Y direction it's limited to around 3 m/s. More than enough for most games. No need to use the software, and no benefit to disabling the Fusion Engine either. It only helps and is on by default.


----------



## yinx

Here goes. I'm playing FPS games on a reasonable level and want to push it towards the high end:

What's your grip style?
*Claw and sometimes Palm*
What's your sensitivity?
*Low/Medium ~800dpi*
What's your maximum budget?
*Money is no issue!*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Not really. Don't value DPI buttons or thumb... but I don't mind being them there*
What games do you play?
*Competitive FPS play*
Do you mind about prediction?
*I want the input to be as raw as possible*
Other relevant information:
*Not too bulky, lightweight, should work great with the basic QCK pad (light colored). I have small to medium sized hands*


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yinx*
> 
> Here goes. I'm playing FPS games on a reasonable level and want to push it towards the high end:
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Claw and sometimes Palm*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Low/Medium ~800dpi*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *Money is no issue!*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Not really. Don't value DPI buttons or thumb... but I don't mind being them there*
> What games do you play?
> *Competitive FPS play*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *I want the input to be as raw as possible*
> Other relevant information:
> *Not too bulky, lightweight, should work great with the basic QCK pad (light colored). I have small to medium sized hands*


Kone XTD Optical, Kone Pure Military, Mionix Naos 7000, Logitech G402 are all worth a look for FPS gaming, can't guarantee they'll suit your grip exactly but the Naos is designed for palm and claw, that I know.


----------



## debuchan

I am not sure if they make what I want, but I hope to find out! (details in spoiler!)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
Low/Medium ~800dpi
What's your maximum budget?
I have no budget at the moment
Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. I don't think I can deal with MMO mice (but if there is a good one that matches what I want, maybe I'll give it a try). I wouldn't mind having a middle mouse button back.
What games do you play?
Diablo 3, LoL (on occasion), various FPS, MMO
Do you mind about prediction?
Little/no prediction, please
Other relevant information:
My hands are fairly small. I want the mouse to have green or white LED and the mouse body itself to be white (or have white accents). I have a NZXT H440 case (white) and a KBT Race II (white w/ green LED) and would love it if the mouse were to match. I currently use a Corsair M65 (black). Thanks!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *debuchan*
> 
> I am not sure if they make what I want, but I hope to find out! (details in spoiler!)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> Low/Medium ~800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> I have no budget at the moment
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Not really. I don't think I can deal with MMO mice (but if there is a good one that matches what I want, maybe I'll give it a try). I wouldn't mind having a middle mouse button back.
> What games do you play?
> Diablo 3, LoL (on occasion), various FPS, MMO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Little/no prediction, please
> Other relevant information:
> My hands are fairly small. I want the mouse to have green or white LED and the mouse body itself to be white (or have white accents). I have a NZXT H440 case (white) and a KBT Race II (white w/ green LED) and would love it if the mouse were to match. I currently use a Corsair M65 (black). Thanks!


That's a tough one, mainly because of the white color requirement


----------



## Rayd Raider

As former g400 (rip) owner, as replace should i purchase a Deathadder 3.5g or the newest G402? (i dont like the whole gyroscope thing plus the g100s sensor)

btw wanted a Mionix Avior 7000 but i can't afford it, <<


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayd Raider*
> 
> As former g400 (rip) owner, as replace should i purchase a Deathadder 3.5g or the newest G402? (i dont like the whole gyroscope thing plus the g100s sensor)
> 
> btw wanted a Mionix Avior 7000 but i can't afford it, <<


What's bad about the gyro? It works great in my experience.


----------



## dgershko

i have a very bad mouse(microsoft wireless mobile mouse 1000) and i want to upgrade it, so i came here for suggestions.
could anyone recommend me a mouse with a dpi switch and a few extra buttons?
i play games like planetside 2 and battlefeld, with some kerbal space program on the side.
a few of my friends have the roccat kone xtd and i liked it a lot.
i dont know what grip type do i have,but i would guess somewhere between a claw and fingertip. im not sure though cause im using a tiny mouse(the aforementioned microsoft one)
by the way,i live in israel, so i dont have a lot of options here, but im going to visit japan soon, so i could buy a mouse there.
also, does anyone know when does that new roccat tyon mouse come out?
any help is really appreciated!


----------



## marty1990

Hey there. Joined this forum specifically for this thread.

I'm a graphic designer/casual gamer looking for a new mouse. I work mainly in illustrator so am more comfortable with a mouse. The Logitech Performance MX get's a lot of good reviews but it's too pricey. The MX Anywhere is too small I think. The alternative was the M705 or the M510 but apparently the tracking is terrible.

I then looked into gaming mice as they're held in high regard in the design world for their accuracy and comfort, but realised they're all way out of my price range - £25 - for a half decent, well known make/model.

After research I found some 'game branded' mice. The Razer Spectre (StarCraft II), the SteelSeries Diablo III, and the SteelSeries Sims 4 mice. These all apparently work on OS X, and the SteelSeries models seem to be variants of the Sensei Raw, just slightly different. I'm not too bothered about them being branded, just the Sims one seems a little less obvious. Though the CPI/DPI (?) is lower than the Diablo.

So yeah. What should I go for?

Thanks.


----------



## turnschuh

G100s maybe? Has no side buttons but is a great performing mouse for its low price.
The steelseries mice you listed have bad sensors.

Edit: welcome to ocn =)


----------



## marty1990

I've seen the G100 but not sure, it lacks extra buttons - which I kinda wanted since my current mouse is VERY basic, and it's optical - and I figured laser was superior?

Thanks for the welcome!


----------



## Trull

I have a friend who does graphic design and he loves his Kana v2. I've used a Kana v2 for gaming and it's good for that as well. Only think I don't like about it is the cable friction, which is significant.

Oh, and since you work with OSX you might wanna take a look at SmoothMouse for OS X (smoothmouse.com). World of difference between having that and not having it.


----------



## marty1990

Hey thanks for the reply.

Yeah I've seen that but it's a little out my price range. I've seen the Kinzu which seems similar, just without the extra buttons. The Diablo and Sims 4 mice are similar too. Just branded.

I've also been reading into optical vs laser and a little confused. A thread I read on here basically said optical was better than laser. But other places have said laser is more accurate. Now, since design is my main priority for a new mouse, am I better with laser or optical?


----------



## ithehappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> Hey thanks for the reply.
> 
> Yeah I've seen that but it's a little out my price range. I've seen the Kinzu which seems similar, just without the extra buttons. The Diablo and Sims 4 mice are similar too. Just branded.
> 
> I've also been reading into optical vs laser and a little confused. A thread I read on here basically said optical was better than laser. But other places have said laser is more accurate. *Now, since design is my main priority for a new mouse, am I better with laser or optical?*


Laser I suppose? All the gamers will say optical is better than laser, I personally am not a _professional_ gamer, but I have never had any problems with laser mice, which I have been using for almost seven years now. I guess you should give a try to a laser mouse for few days and then an optical one, to see which feels perfect to you. It will be _you_ who are gonna use the mouse after all.


----------



## turnschuh

If you use a cloth pad, laser sensors like the avago 9500/9800 are just bad due to the acceleration issue you get. They work best on hard pads where this issue is minimized.

In most cases optical sensors like the 3090, 3310, 3366 (g502), AM010 (g100s, g402) or even the MLT04 of the old microsoft mice (WMO/IO 1.1a, IE 3.0) are superior.

And yea, the lack of side buttons on the g100s is the same reason i didnt get it yet :/

The only proper steelseries mouse you can get is either the rival (3310) or the kana v2 (3090), even though people said that the mouse tracks not as responsive as other 3090 sensor mice.

I wouldnt buy steelseries mice because of the bad build quality and their bad support anyways.

Edit: Maybe take a look at the "Ninox Aurora" from a user named "bst" of the esreality.com forum. Its a light weight mouse with a good ambidextrous shape with two side buttons (left side only though) and has a decent sensor. It will cost like 35€ or 29£.


----------



## dgershko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgershko*
> 
> i have a very bad mouse(microsoft wireless mobile mouse 1000) and i want to upgrade it, so i came here for suggestions.
> could anyone recommend me a mouse with a dpi switch and a few extra buttons?
> i play games like planetside 2 and battlefeld, with some kerbal space program on the side.
> a few of my friends have the roccat kone xtd and i liked it a lot.
> i dont know what grip type do i have,but i would guess somewhere between a claw and fingertip. im not sure though cause im using a tiny mouse(the aforementioned microsoft one)
> by the way,i live in israel, so i dont have a lot of options here, but im going to visit japan soon, so i could buy a mouse there.
> also, does anyone know when does that new roccat tyon mouse come out?
> any help is really appreciated!


So can anyone please help? I am thinking none xtd unless there is something much better available.


----------



## marty1990

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ithehappy*
> 
> Laser I suppose? All the gamers will say optical is better than laser, I personally am not a _professional_ gamer, but I have never had any problems with laser mice, which I have been using for almost seven years now. I guess you should give a try to a laser mouse for few days and then an optical one, to see which feels perfect to you. It will be _you_ who are gonna use the mouse after all.


So you'd say laser is better, accuracy wise, for my line of work? I mean, I have Magic Mouse - that's laser I think - but I cannot use it due to it's ergonomics, or lack of, so I can't really comment on how accurate laser mice are. Plus the fact it's bluetooth, so it's not going to be as good as a wired mouse. My current mouse is an optical, it's been okay, it's just I want something a bit more now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> If you use a cloth pad, laser sensors like the avago 9500/9800 are just bad due to the acceleration issue you get. They work best on hard pads where this issue is minimized.
> 
> In most cases optical sensors like the 3090, 3310, 3366 (g502), AM010 (g100s, g402) or even the MLT04 of the old microsoft mice (WMO/IO 1.1a, IE 3.0) are superior.
> 
> And yea, the lack of side buttons on the g100s is the same reason i didnt get it yet :/
> 
> The only proper steelseries mouse you can get is either the rival (3310) or the kana v2 (3090), even though people said that the mouse tracks not as responsive as other 3090 sensor mice.
> 
> I wouldnt buy steelseries mice because of the bad build quality and their bad support anyways.
> 
> Edit: Maybe take a look at the "Ninox Aurora" from a user named "bst" of the esreality.com forum. Its a light weight mouse with a good ambidextrous shape with two side buttons (left side only though) and has a decent sensor. It will cost like 35€ or 29£.


So, lasers are better for accuracy, however unless on a hard surface, they're no good? And optical mice are better on soft pads, however they're less accurate but are better for gaming? Wow this is confusing, haha.

And SteelSeries have poor support? Hmm. I'm unsure what to do now. First off I was set on the Logitech, then it moved on to SteelSeries, now I have no idea. I'll take a look at that mouse anyway, thanks.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> So you'd say laser is better, accuracy wise, for my line of work? I mean, I have Magic Mouse - that's laser I think - but I cannot use it due to it's ergonomics, or lack of, so I can't really comment on how accurate laser mice are. Plus the fact it's bluetooth, so it's not going to be as good as a wired mouse. My current mouse is an optical, it's been okay, it's just I want something a bit more now.
> So, lasers are better for accuracy, however unless on a hard surface, they're no good? And optical mice are better on soft pads, however they're less accurate but are better for gaming? Wow this is confusing, haha.
> 
> And SteelSeries have poor support? Hmm. I'm unsure what to do now. First off I was set on the Logitech, then it moved on to SteelSeries, now I have no idea. I'll take a look at that mouse anyway, thanks.


No absolutely not. Lasers are NOT good for accuracy when compared to optical mice. They might be good for steadiness (due to their prediction/smoothing) - but since you're doing Graphic Design your hand should be steady. What you want is Pixel by Pixel accuracy - and that is only what a few mice deliver. G100s, G402 or the best of them all G502 (but not fitting for everyone). They all use Logitech exclusive sensors that are better then the ones used in other brands. For example the Steelseries Rival doesn't feel as RAW due to it 's higher smoothing (some kind of Anti-Alias for movements which works against Pixel by Pixel accuracy if it 's to high).

I'd look into a good used deal / RMA'd one from either eBay or Amazon (I rarely get eBay deals nowadays so I care less and less about them) like I always do. If you really want to save money for your working tool (which I would absolutely not advise) you could go with the Cooler Master Storm Alcor:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Storm-Built-Storage-Capability-2-ways/dp/B00IMIK8IQ

Guess it 's the best option in your price range with side-buttons. Seems like in UK the mice are all priced really strange as in expensive - here in Germany you get way better deals for almost every model.

Review of the CM Storm Alcor here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1509526/cm-storm-alcor-review

Downsides are (to me) the cheap ass look but performance and shape should come before that especially when you're looking in a tight budget (not saying the more pricey ones are better that much) - ah and that it 's reported to work good on 800DPI only (which is still almost twice the DPI of the IME 3.0) and can work for daily use on an 27' inch screen (tested myself).


----------



## ithehappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> So you'd say laser is better, accuracy wise, for my line of work?


Well how can I put this....
I find the laser sensors better for photography related works, that is when editing via Light Room and all. I find that the cursor / mouse movement less jittery, or more consistent if you will. I can select an area of a photo much easily with a laser sensor, but with optical I really have to try.
My hands are not extremely steady, but sure as hell are not unsteady.
Again, I have no idea about all the fancy sensors which are there in G502 and all, I'm just talking about normal sensors which are there in G400s and all. You are already using an optical one, so just try a laser sensor, if you find it more precise you'll get that feel in an hour.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ithehappy*
> 
> Well how can I put this....
> I find the laser sensors better for photography related works, that is when editing via Light Room and all. I find that the cursor / mouse movement less jittery, or more consistent if you will. I can select an area of a photo much easily with a laser sensor, but with optical I really have to try.
> My hands are not extremely steady, but sure as hell are not unsteady.
> Again, I have no idea about all the fancy sensors which are there in G502 and all, I'm just talking about normal sensors which are there in G400s and all. You are already using an optical one, so just try a laser sensor, if you find it more precise you'll get that feel in an hour.


Like I said - steadiness. So when you're only doing retouching, photo-editing and the like yea a Laser Mice might be fine.
But as soon as you do Pixel Sensitive stuff you'll come to hate it (random prediction/acceleration for the win!).









"these all apparently work on OS X"

I overlooked that part before. Be sure to disable that ridiculous native OSX Acceleration if you want an accurate mouse.

http://smoothmouse.com/

And maybe look into an alternative Mice Driver if there 's no native one:

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?12812-How-to-torn-off-MAC-OS-X-Mouse-Acceleration/page2

You really need a Mouse with Onboard-Storage or native OSX Support thought - or even better both. The most choice you'll have is with Onboard-Storage - since very few manufacturers have an native Mouse-Driver nowadays - that will most likely make it more pricey thought. Anyway you'll most likely need Boot Camp and Dual Boot into Windows to change settings there.

Edit:

Steelseries Rival has a bit higher smoothing but is still pretty accurate so it might be good choice of in-between of both worlds as well if it fits your hand as well - the good thing about that one is that you can choose to add acceleration if you want it - or not. The only other manufacturer implementing a similar feature as far as I know for optical mice is Roccat (and their version is pretty weird in terms of usability). I have a Rival here - the Mousewheel tends to make some noises (meh) but other than that is okish in terms of build quality. Well, you can't have everything and certainly not the holy grail suitable for everything so just try them and find the one that fits your taste the best and make your own experiences.


----------



## Skylit

Laser mice are merely optical mice with an alternative optics and illumination design emphasising focus of beam.

Both traditional "Optical" (LED) and Laser mice have the same and similar issues in relation to cursor accuracy but to different extents depending on architectural design of optical refraction. LED designs typically have less cursor variance (acceleration) due to how optics are cast upon surface.

Without divulging into experimentation of specific quirks and focusing on hardware strength, G502's sensor and optical package would be one of the strongest in regards to what is "best".

Edit: Of course my input probably does not matter and people will continue to go back and forth like idiots.

Edit 2: Base sensor hardware and or architectural design can be built into a Laser or LED platform. When people claim such or such is "better", it's sometimes hard for me to agree considering that certain sensors are older and lack modern features or strength of unit.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Laser mice are merely optical mice with an alternative optics and illumination design emphasising focus of beam.
> 
> Both traditional "Optical" (LED) and Laser mice have the same and similar issues in relation to cursor accuracy but to different extents depending on architectural design of optical refraction. LED designs typically have less cursor variance (acceleration) due to how optics are cast upon surface.
> 
> Without divulging into experimentation of specific quirks and focusing on hardware strength, G502's sensor and optical package would be one of the strongest in regards to what is "best".
> 
> Edit: Of course my input probably does not matter and people will continue to go back and forth like idiots.
> 
> Edit 2: Base sensor hardware and or architectural design can be built into a Laser or LED platform. When people claim such or such is "better", it's sometimes hard for me to agree considering that certain sensors are older and lack modern features or strength of unit.


But you would agree with the general consensus that even on a hard mat, the 9500/9800 package is simply less accurate and has more tracking variance than a 3310 or a 3090 on cloth? That's been my experience. Also, there's nothing wrong with VCSEL technology, it's just that the 9500/9800 was designed for surface compatibility at the expense of low tracking variance.


----------



## Skylit

The degree of cursor variance is higher on average, yes. That's not saying that the referenced Optical LED designs are perfect either, but they're closer to an unachievable 100% accuracy rating on benchmark surface material. (G502's 3366 package currently scores the highest in this regard.)

The actual sensor architecture behind 9500/9800 is fine and powers current 3310/3988 packages. 9500/9800's primary concern stems from use of VCSEL and optical design of lens unit. This can be combated with a redesign and use of different optics.

In reference to Edit 2: If someone were to ask me if a 9800 or 3090 is the better sensor.. I couldn't just say one or the other.

3090 is.... 1) weaker by design (framerate) 2) lacks fine tuning and adjustment from modern DSP scaler. 3) consumes way more power being based off a 12 year old gaming grade architecture. 4) large DIP design; contributes to size of unit.

3090 is really only superior in a sense that it does better in reference to +/- variance. 9800 does every other objective aspect better ignoring algorithm added aids.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The degree of cursor variance is higher on average, yes. That's not saying that the referenced Optical LED designs are perfect either, but they're closer to an unachievable 100% accuracy rating on benchmark surface material. (G502's 3366 package is currently scores the highest in this regard.)
> 
> The actual sensor architecture behind 9500/9800 is fine and powers current 3310/3988 packages. 9500/9800's primary concern stems from use of VCSEL and optical design of lens unit. This can be combated with a redesign and use of different optics.
> 
> In reference to Edit 2: If someone were to ask me if a 9800 or 3090 is the better sensor.. I couldn't just give a yes or no answer.
> 
> 3090 is.... 1) weaker by design (framerate) 2) lacks fine tuning and adjustment from modern DSP scaler. 3) consumes way more power being based off a 12 year old gaming grade architecture. 4) large DIP design; contributes to size of unit.
> 
> 3090 is really only superior in a sense that it does better in reference to +/- variance. 9800 does every other objective aspect better ignoring algorithm added aids.


I thought the 9800 suffers smoothing issue compared to 9500?

Also, do you think it is possible for new VSCEL sensors will come out? That fixes the random accel problem ._.

Edit: what's the 3366's FPS rating?


----------



## Skylit

Smoothing is an added layer, not inherit to hardware.

Not sure if you skipped over what I wrote, but VCSEL use is one part of the issue. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible for VCSEL design to have a low accuracy variance, but it's easier to achieve with LED design.

With current refinement and dedicated surface tuning, there should be no need to expand into newer laser oriented products. You can say current high end (3366) LED design is even better on the scale of compatibility.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Smoothing is an added layer, not inherit to hardware.
> 
> Not sure if you skipped over what I wrote, but VCSEL use is one part of the issue. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible for VCSEL design to have a low accuracy variance, but it's easier to achieve with LED design.
> 
> With current refinement and dedicated surface tuning, there should be no need to expand into newer laser oriented products. You can say current high LED design is even better.


Then how about the dual sensor taipan with that weird optical 2nd calibrator?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Then how about the dual sensor taipan with that weird optical 2nd calibrator?


What about it?

2nd "Optical sensor" isn't designed as a tracking unit. It's a dedicated optic used for calibration of surface (9800 on its own can only adjust via LED intensity).

There's no aid in regards to cursor variance or acceleration involved.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> What about it?
> 
> 2nd "Optical sensor" isn't designed as a tracking unit. It's a dedicated optic used for calibration of surface (9800 on its own can only adjust via LED intensity).
> 
> There's no aid in regards to cursor variance or acceleration involved.


Is the calibration ability of the calibration optic able to tune the laser sensor to have minimal accel on cloth surfaces?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Is the calibration ability of the calibration optic able to tune the laser sensor to have minimal accel on cloth surfaces?


I highly doubt that. I think Skylit is just trying to say that the optical is there for surface calibration only in terms of something like optimal LOD. That's what they used it for in the Imperator 4G which I've tried before as well, even though that was with a PTE.


----------



## dgershko

so is there any reason no one will help me?
did i say something wrong?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgershko*
> 
> so is there any reason no one will help me?
> did i say something wrong?


Probably missed it. A LOT of people post in this thread. Quote yourself and repost it


----------



## dgershko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Probably missed it. A LOT of people post in this thread. Quote yourself and repost it


I'll just write a new one.
I'm looking for a mouse with a DPI switch and a few extra programmable buttons.I was looking at the roccat kone xtd for reference, so something with similar features and price. Also should I wait for the new roccat mouse?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgershko*
> 
> I'll just write a new one.
> I'm looking for a mouse with a DPI switch and a few extra programmable buttons.I was looking at the roccat kone xtd for reference, so something with similar features and price. Also should I wait for the new roccat mouse?


Are you a palm grip? What mousepad do you prefer, hard or cloth?


----------



## dgershko

hard mousepad, palm grip


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgershko*
> 
> hard mousepad, palm grip


Should work fine then, pretty ideal setup for that mouse. The XTD Optical will likely be more accurate but supposedly it's going to be a limited edition product and will probably be very expensive to procure. It already is at the moment, and is released but hard to find for any decent price, at least here in the USA where I am.


----------



## dgershko

just one question. do you know when will that new roccat mouse be released? these weird buttons on it will be very useful for some of the games i play...
http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Tyon/


----------



## marty1990

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> No absolutely not. Lasers are NOT good for accuracy when compared to optical mice. They might be good for steadiness...


Okay thanks for the advice. So I think I'm getting it, laser is good for steadiness and working on more surfaces, optical is better for accuracy and it just doesn't work on as many surfaces. Right?

The Alcor mouse looks like it could fit the bill. I have looked at the G502 but it's double what my budget is. I'll check out the other 'G' models before I commit to the Alcor. My reason for leaning towards the Razer and SteelSeries I posted originally is because they supposedly work on OS X - I know a lot of gaming mice work fine as 'normal' mice, but the extra buttons can't be programmed due to the lack of drivers, but they can due to their respective software. BetterTouchTool and similar software can get them working to a degree but - from what I've read - a lot of mice still don't work fully on OS X. So, if I go for the Alcor, will is definitely work on OS X?

CoolerMaster, I've never actually heard of them. To be honest I hadn't heard of Razer or SteelSeries until I started looking into mice a couple of days ago. Is it a good manufactuer, in terms of build quality, support etc?

I'll grab that SmoothMouse too, thanks.

Yeah, again, the Rival is out of my price range. Hmm. I mean I guess I could up my price range, but if the Alcor will be good enough, then I should go for that?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ithehappy*
> 
> Well how can I put this....
> I find the laser sensors better for photography related works, that is when editing via Light Room and all. I find that the cursor...


I don't really work so much with photography based stuff, I tend to primarily work in Illustrator so - from what justyourimage has said, I'm leaning towards optical now. Though I'm still a bit unsure. I never realised choosing a mouse would be so difficult, haha!

EDIT: Just found the Logitech G300 at an okay price. What about that? Or is it not programmable because I'm on OS X?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgershko*
> 
> just one question. do you know when will that new roccat mouse be released? these weird buttons on it will be very useful for some of the games i play...
> http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Tyon/


Really not sure.


----------



## ithehappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> I don't really work so much with photography based stuff, I tend to primarily work in Illustrator so - from what justyourimage has said, I'm leaning towards optical now. Though I'm still a bit unsure. I never realised choosing a mouse would be so difficult, haha!
> 
> EDIT: Just found the Logitech G300 at an okay price. What about that? Or is it not programmable because I'm on OS X?


I think that's a wise decision. I believe what most of these professional gamers say, that optical sensors are better, everyone can't be wrong. I am trying to get used with optical too.

No idea about the G300. But it looks like a nice mouse. At least not those heavy and tall Logitech like tradition.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Smoothing is an added layer, not inherit to hardware.
> 
> Not sure if you skipped over what I wrote, but VCSEL use is one part of the issue. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible for VCSEL design to have a low accuracy variance, but it's easier to achieve with LED design.
> 
> With current refinement and dedicated surface tuning, there should be no need to expand into newer laser oriented products. You can say current high end (3366) LED design is even better on the scale of compatibility.


So in the end the terms "Optical" and "Laser" will eventually vanish as the differences between them are actually pretty low in the newest sensors implementing the best of both worlds - did I get that right? That's a good step forwards then. Thanks for the technical insight - I really appreciate it - so please continue to share it even thought I/we might not grasp everything at first it 's always good to have someone around with technical insight to that extend.









@marty1990:

CoolerMaster is certainly not the biggest player yet -
But in terms of Support they are active in this Forum as well:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1380535/cooler-master-usa-rep-looking-for-your-feedback-on-line-of-cm-storm-gaming-mice

And also are replying to bad reviews on Amazon trying to find solutions and how to improve. So I guess you can certainly say they've a good support that is. Or at least above average since I didn't experient with it myself. However their communication makes me believe they are. Also the reviews do say that they're making the right steps forward.

Let me add a conclusion:

Don't expect "the perfect mouse" there isn't one. Just compare it to women. There are many very good ones, good and medicore ones if compared "theoretically" or in "terms of performance" (like this girl is a 10, the next one is a 6). None of that actually matters in the end. What matters is if you're happy with them and that it "just works".









Test a few different ones mentioned here - compare them or just go and order one (like the CM Storm Alcor) and see if you're happy with it - If you want to save time and don't need that last percent of precision or good stability or the perfect shape or or or ...







Unless you're mice addicted (like many of us are) or looking for a high performance gaming mice that is competitive on a pro player level that delivers the last percent of performance and ergonomity and whatnot (not that pro gamers get to choose their hardware to begin with - since they're are most of the time forced upon them when they have a hardware sponsor







).


----------



## marty1990

That sounds like pretty good support to me! I'll have a look at their other mice, because, I don't think the buttons on the one you mentioned are programmable, I might be wrong, but a couple of reviews said it's not possible to programme them. I'll look into the Rival too. It's, again, a little over my budget, but to be honest, I'm sick of looking at mice now, haha. I've seen so many in the past couple of days. I mentioned the G300, no way am I getting that after reading reviews. If there's any other mice you know of that are similar in spec to the CoolerMaster, or even the SteelSeries Rival, then I'm all ears. Since I'm not au fait with mice, I don't want to buy something that'll be terrible in a few months :/


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> That sounds like pretty good support to me! I'll have a look at their other mice, because, I don't think the buttons on the one you mentioned are programmable, I might be wrong, but a couple of reviews said it's not possible to programme them. I'll look into the Rival too. It's, again, a little over my budget, but to be honest, I'm sick of looking at mice now, haha. I've seen so many in the past couple of days. I mentioned the G300, no way am I getting that after reading reviews. If there's any other mice you know of that are similar in spec to the CoolerMaster, or even the SteelSeries Rival, then I'm all ears. Since I'm not au fait with mice, I don't want to buy something that'll be terrible in a few months :/


Hahaha. Well - the Steelseries Support is horrible in comparison. They just don't listen to their costumers as far as I heard but the Rival seems still a good product to me. I have it here and don't consider it bad quality when compared to the Logitech Mice (maybe a bit worse but not that much overall). The only thing that you might be carefull about is that it 's a bit bigger and that the coating is meh as in that it collects sweet (not that bad for me thought, even I do have really sweety hands).

Even thought some have reported that they had difficulties with it (Scrollwheel and Sidegrips) - in that case just get a replacement. I don't think it happens that often thought and some of it might be complaining on a high scale. I'm not sure thought. Thing is you can hit a bad Apple with all Mice no matter the manufacturer.

So if you're really looking to spend that money that is in terms of long levity and Mac Compability that stores it 's Keybinds and Macros on the Mice and work in MacOS (I think my Savu's Macros worked on Mac OS as far as I remember - Easy Shift Keybinds did at least. Easy Shift is the name for double binding all buttons as in just like a keystroke like CTRL+A) you better look for the Roccat Kone Optical or Military (the Military has the better sensor - the same one as the Rival - but worse looks the shape and the rest is the same). As far as build quality on that model looks it seems quite good and might be the overall best choice for you.

You have to Dual Boot to Windows to change Settings but I guess it 's the only mice that works to that intent in Mac OS and isn't that bad to begin with since I don't know a single person that isn't using Boot Camp nowadays. And you're not changing your settings that often that is. Ah yea - and the driver-software is looking a bit ugly but that's almost the only downside.

Edit - Recommendation:

Yea I think the Roccat Kone Pure Optical / Military might be the best choice in terms of Mac OS compatibility and advanced features there that might come handy for Illustrator and the like - like Keystroke-Emulation and the like. (what a weird sentence - sorry it 's already pretty late







). So if you want those features and are ready to spend the money just go for it. You won't regret it.

Otherwise if you want to stay Budget go for the CM Storm Alcor and ditch Keybinds that are stored on the Mice. Generally Mac OS Support is pretty Non-Existent from almost any Mice company to begin with - however the alternative Drivers I linked you above let you change the buttons that is. Maybe some of them have Macro-Support as well so I guess you could find something that works in the end. That 's about what I can tell you from my experience on working on Mac OS with "Gaming Mice".

Pew. Long write.

Edit 2:

Even though it 's a Laser and "not as good" as an Optical Mice there 's good deal (£39.99 as new instead of £79.99) for the Kone XTD on Amazon.co.uk right now:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B009DYOPK0/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

It 's the bigger version of the Kone Pure (in terms of size / bulkiness) as well as features (4D-Scrollwheel, LOD-Adjustment and and and ...) so I thought I'll leave it to your own choice. Maybe try to compare them both and see what you like the best (I'd recommend it).

Cheers!


----------



## DTrinh09

I want to order a couple mice from Amazon to try out. When I decide to return one (or both), will I have to pay for return shipping? The policy says I will if the reason is not listed in the options, but I don't know what the list of reasons are. Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?&nodeId=3484071


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> I want to order a couple mice from Amazon to try out. When I decide to return one (or both), will I have to pay for return shipping? The policy says I will if the reason is not listed in the options, but I don't know what the list of reasons are. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?&nodeId=3484071


If there's nothing actually wrong with the item/order then you will have to pay the return fee (it's deducted automatically from the money you get back from the return). Still worth it imo.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> If there's nothing actually wrong with the item/order then you will have to pay the return fee (it's deducted automatically from the money you get back from the return). Still worth it imo.


I just wanted to clarify, they make you pay for return shipping if there wasn't anything defective with the purchase. They don't charge a "restocking" fee like many other retailers do, including Newegg.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> If there's nothing actually wrong with the item/order then you will have to pay the return fee (it's deducted automatically from the money you get back from the return). Still worth it imo.


Wow ok - at least here in germany I'm glad we have a law that they have to pay the return fee. So no return costs in germany for us.


----------



## Blackcurrent

Looking for a mouse to replace my G9.

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*800-1600DPI*
What's your maximum budget?
*$100*
Do you want additional buttons?
*A thumb button would be nice to navigate back*
What games do you play?
*FPS and RTS highly competitive*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Unsure*
Other relevant information:
*Needs to be a very durable and reliable mouse.*


----------



## mitavreb

Hi guys please recommend a mouse. I'm torn between the Naos 7000 and Logitech G502 and I'm planning to buy one tomorrow.


What's your grip style?
*Palm Grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*0.475*
What's your maximum budget?
*Under $100*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Two buttons on the right side of the mouse*
What games do you play?
*Mostly FPS. CSGO*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Hate prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, smoothing, etc.*
Other relevant information:
*I can't decide between the Naos 7000 and G502. I'm confused with the reviews of the G502. From Newegg and Amazon quite a lot of the reviews said it's a claw grip mouse but some say that it's possible to palm grip this mouse. I still have the old Logitech G5 and I can use that as a reference for the G502. I don't like the shape of the G5 because my pinky and ring fingers drag on the mouse pad when I use a palm grip.

My previous mouse is the Func MS-3 and I totally love the shape. I'm not sure if the Naos 7000 will be as good ergonomically as the Func MS-3 even though their shape is similar.

So my dilemma is, should I choose the mouse with the best sensor or pick the one that might provide a better grip for palming?

*


----------



## marty1990

G400S. Any good? Also what's the size difference between that and the Kana v2? My hand is, I guess on the smaller side (?), 17cm about, and my grip is in between palm and claw, not really settling in one. Is the Kana v2 going to be big enough?


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Hi guys please recommend a mouse. I'm torn between the Naos 7000 and Logitech G502 and I'm planning to buy one tomorrow.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm Grip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *0.475*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *Under $100*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Two buttons on the right side of the mouse*
> What games do you play?
> *Mostly FPS. CSGO*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Hate prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, smoothing, etc.*
> Other relevant information:
> *I can't decide between the Naos 7000 and G502. I'm confused with the reviews of the G502. From Newegg and Amazon quite a lot of the reviews said it's a claw grip mouse but some say that it's possible to palm grip this mouse. I still have the old Logitech G5 and I can use that as a reference for the G502. I don't like the shape of the G5 because my pinky and ring fingers drag on the mouse pad when I use a palm grip.
> 
> My previous mouse is the Func MS-3 and I totally love the shape. I'm not sure if the Naos 7000 will be as good ergonomically as the Func MS-3 even though their shape is similar.
> 
> So my dilemma is, should I choose the mouse with the best sensor or pick the one that might provide a better grip for palming?
> 
> *


Better grip comes first if the sensor isn't that much better by miles ahead (not making any judgement here between the Naos 7000 and G502 's sensor performance since I've not tested the Naos 7000). The Avior 7000 is reported to have a bigger amount of smoothing thought (see here) which uses the same sensor as the Naos 7000. But take that with a grain of salt and try it yourself. Cheers!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marty1990*
> 
> G400S. Any good? Also what's the size difference between that and the Kana v2? My hand is, I guess on the smaller side (?), 17cm about, and my grip is in between palm and claw, not really settling in one. Is the Kana v2 going to be big enough?


See "*Weight & Shape*" here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelseries-kana-v2-review-by-takasta-updated-white-version


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackcurrent*
> 
> Looking for a mouse to replace my G9.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip grip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *800-1600DPI*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$100*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *A thumb button would be nice to navigate back*
> What games do you play?
> *FPS and RTS highly competitive*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Unsure*
> Other relevant information:
> *Needs to be a very durable and reliable mouse.*


Mionix Avior 7000. The other alternative, the FK1, is just plagued with problems here and there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Hi guys please recommend a mouse. I'm torn between the Naos 7000 and Logitech G502 and I'm planning to buy one tomorrow.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm Grip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *0.475*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *Under $100*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Two buttons on the right side of the mouse*
> What games do you play?
> *Mostly FPS. CSGO*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Hate prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, smoothing, etc.*
> Other relevant information:
> *I can't decide between the Naos 7000 and G502. I'm confused with the reviews of the G502. From Newegg and Amazon quite a lot of the reviews said it's a claw grip mouse but some say that it's possible to palm grip this mouse. I still have the old Logitech G5 and I can use that as a reference for the G502. I don't like the shape of the G5 because my pinky and ring fingers drag on the mouse pad when I use a palm grip.
> 
> My previous mouse is the Func MS-3 and I totally love the shape. I'm not sure if the Naos 7000 will be as good ergonomically as the Func MS-3 even though their shape is similar.
> 
> So my dilemma is, should I choose the mouse with the best sensor or pick the one that might provide a better grip for palming?
> 
> *


I would get the Naos because the G502 is really a claw mouse at heart, but not really palm. I feel that the sniper button gets in the way if you palm it. The Naos 7000 is designed for palm and claw grippers alike and yes the shape is fairly similar to the Func.


----------



## debuchan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's a tough one, mainly because of the white color requirement


I see, thanks!

What if I modified my original request? I don't know if that'd help any or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *debuchan*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> Low/Medium ~800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> I have no budget at the moment
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Not really. I don't think I can deal with MMO mice (but if there is a good one that matches the color I want, maybe I'll give it a try). I wouldn't mind having a middle mouse button back.
> What games do you play?
> Diablo 3, LoL (on occasion), various FPS, MMOs
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Little/no prediction, please
> Other relevant information:
> My hands are fairly small. I want the mouse to have green or white LED and the mouse body itself to be white (it could also be black, but I would like it to have "significant" white accents). I have a NZXT H440 case (white) and a KBT Race II (white w/ green LED) and would love it if the mouse were to match. I currently use a Corsair M65 (black). Thanks!


----------



## metal571

That doesn't help much unfortunately because there are almost no white mice out there. The only thing I can think of is the EC1 EVO in White that would fit these requirements, but then you lose out on the 800 CPI step because there is none. 2300 is the optimal CPI for the EC1. The mouse body being white is the difficult part. Most mice with LEDs now allow you to make them whatever color you want.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *debuchan*
> 
> I see, thanks!
> 
> What if I modified my original request? I don't know if that'd help any or not.


Kana v1 or v2 (the later having the ADNS3090" - v1 is using the PAW3305DK which I heard has some issues at higher DPI) in White.

v1 white looks better:






v2 white "works" better but is not available in the US:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelseries-kana-v2-review-by-takasta-updated-white-version

shape is great for both - as I heard even for smaller hands.

You can buy both and use the internals from the v2 easily as far as i know.

And the v1 shouldn't be to bad if you're a low-sensivitiy gamer at around 800 DPI.
The smoothing / prediction shouldn't be that bad that is at the DPI-Setting.


----------



## powN

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*~800dpi DPI*
What's your maximum budget?
*~80$*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Wouldn't mind it*
What games do you play?
*Mainly cs:go*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Unsure*
Other relevant information:
Was thinking about fk1 or EC2 eVo CL since I have 19.5cm long hand I guess that woulnd't make a problem having that big mouse and using fingertip grip?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *powN*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip grip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *~800dpi DPI*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *~80$*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Wouldn't mind it*
> What games do you play?
> *Mainly cs:go*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Unsure*
> Other relevant information:
> Was thinking about fk1 or EC2 eVo CL since I have 19.5cm long hand I guess that woulnd't make a problem having that big mouse and using fingertip grip?


FK1. The answer is always FK1.


----------



## metal571

Unless you want a mouse that is much less prone to annoying QC issues like the Avior


----------



## sushicide

Hi all, long time lurker here.

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip, 7.6"/19.3cm hands*
What's your sensitivity?
*800-1200 dpi*
What's your maximum budget?
*$60 USD*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Thumb button(s) - one is good, two would be ideal
Middle wheel - prefer lighter click & good tactile feedback (example : G9's middle click felt "weird" to me)*
What games do you play?
*RTS/ARPG - a lot of left and right click, some light FPS*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Mixed feeling, but dislike smoothing/accel*
Other relevant information:
*Weight tuning/macros/custom keys not really necessary, sometimes I forget they even exist or simply too lazy to set up for new games
Local store has very limited peripheral selection, my picks would be based on internet research :
*
Roccat Kone Pure - really like the shape, do most people take optical over laser? Is it true that Roccat has very minimal US based support?
Steelseries Rival - the usual popular choice, but heard a few complaints of inconsistent build quality/coating peeling issues.
Zowie FK - same as Rival
Logitech G400s - longtime Logitech user so this would be my "safe bet" if nothing comes to mind, familiar shape and excellent warranty.
Biased against Razer, my Naga and Deathadder both faltered within 6 months of moderate use and the RMA process was unpleasant.
Don't know much about other brands at all.

*Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated, thank you.*


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sushicide*
> 
> Hi all, long time lurker here.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip, 7.6"/19.3cm hands*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *800-1200 dpi*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$60 USD*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Thumb button(s) - one is good, two would be ideal
> Middle wheel - prefer lighter click & good tactile feedback (example : G9's middle click felt "weird" to me)*
> What games do you play?
> *RTS/ARPG - a lot of left and right click, some light FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Mixed feeling, but dislike smoothing/accel*
> Other relevant information:
> *Weight tuning/macros/custom keys not really necessary, sometimes I forget they even exist or simply too lazy to set up for new games
> Local store has very limited peripheral selection, my picks would be based on internet research :
> *
> Roccat Kone Pure - really like the shape, do most people take optical over laser? Is it true that Roccat has very minimal US based support?
> Steelseries Rival - the usual popular choice, but heard a few complaints of inconsistent build quality/coating peeling issues.
> Zowie FK - same as Rival
> Logitech G400s - longtime Logitech user so this would be my "safe bet" if nothing comes to mind, familiar shape and excellent warranty.
> Biased against Razer, my Naga and Deathadder both faltered within 6 months of moderate use and the RMA process was unpleasant.
> Don't know much about other brands at all.
> 
> *Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated, thank you.*


Kana v2 - YouTube Review from a DOTA Player:






(it 's his long term mouse since 1 year + as far as I know)

and here the written Review from him in the Forums:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelseries-kana-v2-review-by-takasta-updated-white-version

Edit:

Not sure if it fits your mouse wheel-preferences thought.


----------



## loctuantran

What's your grip style?
Palm, claw
What's your sensitivity?
Usually ~1100
What's your maximum budget?
60-65$
Do you want additional buttons?
I don't mind if it has or doesn't
What games do you play?
League of Legends, CS GO sometimes
Do you mind about prediction?
No
Other relevant information: i was about to get zowie fk 1 but i hear people say that it isn't good for spam clicking. And since i play lol i kinda click a lot


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Unless you want a mouse that is much less prone to annoying QC issues like the Avior


BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!


----------



## sushicide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> Kana v2 - YouTube Review from a DOTA Player:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (it 's his long term mouse since 1 year + as far as I know)
> 
> and here the written Review from him in the Forums:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelseries-kana-v2-review-by-takasta-updated-white-version
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Not sure if it fits your mouse wheel-preferences thought.


Yep that review was one of the first things I read when I started looking for a new mouse, but for whatever reason none of the retailers in the States carry Kana V2 so I'd have to buy from ebay w/o warranty...and nothing really lasts longer than 2 yrs nowadays.


----------



## metal571

Tehe


----------



## DTrinh09

What's your grip style? *Claw with Logitech G502 (2014 trial), Fingertip with CM Storm Spawn (2011-2014)*
What's your sensitivity? *2000 DPI, 2.6 raw input in TF2*
What's your maximum budget? < *$70*
Do you want additional buttons? *Optional, but would be nice. I am getting spoiled by the G502 after using the Spawn for so long.*
What games do you play? *MOBA games*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*.
Other relevant information: *Low LOD, right-handed ergonomics, ~100 g max, coating that won't fade or chip easily. Medium/small hands (17.5 cm)
*
I bought the G502 to test. Even without any weights, the mouse is just too heavy for me I think. At first, I thought the lack of a ring finger rest would be a deal breaker because I was so used to it on the CM Storm Spawn, but I'm getting accustomed to holding a mouse without it. However, I don't want to get an ambidextrous mouse. I need help deciding between the Mionix Naos 7000 and the Corsair M45. I was going to pick up the M65 at my local Best Buy but they were out of stock.

*Logitech G502* (Playing League of Legends, Bioshock Infinite, Team Fortress 2, and CS:GO. 5 days testing)
+Excellent build quality
+Perfect button clicks all around
+Textured side grips
+Flawless sensor
+2 scroll wheel modes (free + click)
+Side-to-side scroll wheel
+Length and height are nice
+Looks pretty cool (Batmobile front? lol)

-A little skinny, no ring/pinky rest
-Too heavy even without weights (120g) <-- Main deal breaker
-Scroll wheel kinda wobbles in click mode

*Mionix Naos 7000* (impressions from pics, videos, and reviews)
+Most comfortable, ergonomic, ring finger/pinky rests
+3310 sensor is next best option after the exclusive 3366
+Lighter than G502 (103g or something)

-Lackluster/simple look
-Side buttons look shallow?
-Favors palm users? (I still claw grip my Logitech M570 though)

*Corsair M45* (impressions from pics, videos, and reviews)
+Wider than G502
+Lightest of the 3 (96g)
+Cheapest of the 3
+3310 sensor
+Claw/fingertip friendly
+Sturdy looking scroll wheel

-Complaints about the side grips showing wear fast
-Least LED customization
-Least programmable buttons (same as CM Storm Spawn's)
-No ring/pinky rest (not sure if deal breaker anymore)

Anyone with experience with these mice, mainly the M45 and Naos 7000, care to share your experiences with them and how you chose to pick one over the other? Thank you.


----------



## Aventadoor

You can consider Zowie EC1/EC2 aswell.
It ticks all your boxes but 1, and thats the DPI. Some say it works best at 2300 dpi tho, and considering you use such high dpi I dont see how it wouldent work.
Coating might peel off, but if your lucky they might have a 3310 version out when thats happening


----------



## Blackcurrent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mionix Avior 7000. The other alternative, the FK1, is just plagued with problems here and there.


The Mionix Avior 7000 looks good. I forgot to mention that I've had Logitech mouses in the past and I'm really fond of them. Is the G402 any good or is the Avoir better?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackcurrent*
> 
> The Mionix Avior 7000 looks good. I forgot to mention that I've had Logitech mouses in the past and I'm really fond of them. Is the G402 any good or is the Avoir better?


Yes, excellent. I just personally prefer ambi mice. I have a 402 and did a video review on it on my YouTube channel, metal571. It's my most recent video.


----------



## Blackcurrent

Alright I will check it out now


----------



## Torongo

*1.What's your grip style?*
A mix between a palm and claw grip, more to the claw style
*2.What's your sensitivity?*
800dpi or ~17 cm\360
*3.What's your maximum budget?*
This is a trick question, 'cause we're not on in the same countries
*4.Do you want additional buttons?*
Of course
*5.What games do you play?*
Mainly CSS, Quake Live and DotA
*6.Do you mind about prediction*?
Yes, I do
*7.Other relevant information:*
Kinda choosing from 4 mouses here:
Roccat Savu
Razer Deathadder 3.5G (kinda too big for me, I suppose)
Cooler Master Storm Recon
Steelseries Kana v2 (kinda my choice if it's good)
Don't care about LOD or some stuff like that, but I wanna kinda balanced and lightweight mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> *1.What's your grip style?*
> A mix between a palm and claw grip, more to the claw style
> *2.What's your sensitivity?*
> 800dpi or ~17 cm\360
> *3.What's your maximum budget?*
> This is a trick question, 'cause we're not on in the same countries
> *4.Do you want additional buttons?*
> Of course
> *5.What games do you play?*
> Mainly CSS, Quake Live and DotA
> *6.Do you mind about prediction*?
> Yes, I do
> *7.Other relevant information:*
> Kinda choosing from 4 mouses here:
> Roccat Savu
> Razer Deathadder 3.5G (kinda too big for me, I suppose)
> Cooler Master Storm Recon
> Steelseries Kana v2 (kinda my choice if it's good)
> Don't care about LOD or some stuff like that, but I wanna kinda balanced and lightweight mouse.


Out of those I'd really only recommend the Savu. SteelSeries products are just not known to last in general even though the Kana is fine except for the 4000 CPI SROM latency. I would add Kone Pure Military to the list. The Naos 7000 is also good but 100g may be a touch heavy for you.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Out of those I'd really only recommend the Savu. SteelSeries products are just not known to last in general even though the Kana is fine except for the 4000 CPI SROM latency. I would add Kone Pure Military to the list. The Naos 7000 is also good but 100g may be a touch heavy for you.


Thank you. Actually, mouse that I'm using now is kinda _heavy_ (~130g without cable, I suppose).
Too bad that KPM and Naos aren't available in my country


----------



## DTrinh09

Today I drove to Fry's and picked up 3 additional mice: Mionix Naos 7000, Roccat Kone Pure (representative for the Military), and Corsair M65 White (representative for the M45). 30 day return policy should give me ample of time to see which shape I like the most. My initial impressions are:

*Mionix Naos 7000:*
+Best ergonomics out of the 4 mice. 1/4
+Very nice soft-touch texture
+MB1/MB2 clicks on par with the Logitech G502*
+Forward/Back side buttons feel really responsive
+Claw grip friendly!
+Not heavy for its size
+Scroll wheel click feels better after play testing. 2/4

-MB2 has a sweet spot and a weird hollow spot on the side (QC?) Only noticeable if purposely clicking off center.
-Not as contoured as I would like
-Scroll wheel has some wobble
-Scroll wheel click doesn't feel that good, ranks 3/4

*Roccat Kone Pure*: (stand-in for Military edition)
+Finger-tip friendly
+Very nice scroll wheel
+Best scroll wheel click, ranks 1/4

-Coating lacks grip, too smooth for me EDIT: Just read up on the coating and supposedly it feels more rubberized/grippy after use.
-Too small overall. Finger-tip grip is the only way I'd use it (I used finger-tip on my previous mouse, CM Storm Spawn)

*Corsair M65 Glossy White* (stand-in for M45)
+Interesting shape and design (never tried the G9x before)
+Finger-tip friendly, unsure about claw-grip*
+Nicest scroll wheel up/down, ranks 1/4
+Sandpaper sides have a good first impression so far

+/- Only the glossy white version was in stock. The M45 would have a soft-touch coating instead of the gloss, so I don't know how that coat feels.

-MB1/MB2 clicks feel the worst, 4/4. MB2 feels mushy
-Scroll wheel click is the worst, 4/4. Hard to tell when it actuates.
-Small butt/body feels weird on my palm. I don't think I'd claw-grip this.*

I have not compared performance, especially because two of the mice were bought just to try the shape. I might move this to its own thread if that's more appropriate. Otherwise, I'm just writing down my notes to help me formulate a final decision on what mouse to move forward with.

TL;DR

*1. Mionix Naos 7000*
Love almost everything except the scroll wheel (-slight wobble) and MB2 variable sweet spots
*2. Logitech Proteus G502*
Love almost everything except the scroll wheel (+click/free mode, +side-to-side, -button is ok, -slight wobble) and the weight (heaviest)
*3. Roccat Kone Pure*
Safe choice for finger-tip but coating is too smoothand overall size is too small
*4. Corsair Vengeance M65*
Interesting choice for finger-tip and nicest scroll up/down wheel, but actual button presses are god awful


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> Thank you. Actually, mouse that I'm using now is kinda _heavy_ (~130g without cable, I suppose).
> Too bad that KPM and Naos aren't available in my country


Do you like heavy? The Logitech G502 is 120g without cable, and you can add weights even. If you read any of my notes so far, I really like the g502 except for its weight. I don't know what country you're from, but if any local electronic stores display gaming mice you should try to test it out. My Best Buy had the g502 on display. I cannot speak for any of the 4 mice you listed because I have not tried them.


----------



## SirCrabsAlot

Hey guys. I've had my Master Race membership card since 1995 and have been professionaly working in IT for almost 15 years now. I've not had the biggest budget for peripherals in the past but I'm in a position now to get a good mouse and pad.

I guess I'll start with answering the questions. Also thanks for any help, much appreciated!









*1. What's your grip style?*

_If the mouse was big enough I'd use Palm but I'm forced to use Fingertip. To my middle finger my hand is 8" / 20cm. My fingers are skinny and long._

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

_In between High and Medium. I've only ever had cheapy mouse pads that weren't big enough to suit me. That causes me to have to lift off after 4" to do a full turn. I usually move a total of about 8" for a full 360 turn.
So I guess 800-1000 dpi??_

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

_Sky is the limit but a $150 mouse better perform and have a 5 year warranty or I won't buy it._

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes, I'm a fan of thumb buttons and maybe a couple more like at the edge of M1/M2 or right side of mouse if placed right but those aren't necessary. If a wheel does side scroll I hardly use it because I end up scrolling the wheel when I just want to move it left or right.

*5. What games do you play?*

_RPG,FPS and RTS_

_i.e. Skyrim, Fallout, Starcraft (Bnet), Diablo 3, LOL, Farcry, Crysis, Dead Space, might be getting Arma III or check out DayZ at some point._

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

_I don't know if I've noticed the difference. I just want my mouse to be as accurate as it can and not under-perform. If I change speed then the mouse should reflect that 1:1, does that help answer this?_

*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

_I like the idea of extrememly low LOD. Mose mice I've had suck at this and it's annoying.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm on the fence about weight. On one hand a super light mouse is easy to move around but can feel cheap and hollow. A heavy mouse can add more friction and require more effort to move but gives you a feeling something being present in your hand and that you purchased quality. I don't necessarily need super light weight. I've heard the complaints about the Naos/Avior being too light for some. I picked up the G700 and that mouse seemed too heavy to me. The Proteus is a considered heavy but without weights it didn't seem too bad to me. The DA2013 has a nice weight to it if that is a good reference.

I am right handed so either ambidextrous or right handed mice. Ideally I'd like a mouse to fit like a glove but still allow me to control it.

I want a braided cord, no gloss, I like sweatproof and grippy. The rubberized feel is nice and I HATE fingerprints in my stuff. I like a low activation with nice feedback. The G502 M1 and M2 were supreme to me. Loved how clicky and responsive they were. I don't care about software or memory...I mean I'll use it if it's good. I just don't want to plug the mouse in and be hindered by any required nonsense. If the software is worthwhile and is stable that's fine. I've heard the Roccat software is nice but that Synapse sucks.....I don't have any experience with either so I don't know._

_Just wanted to add my experience with the feel of some mice in my local stores:_

_My local Best Buy had a G700, G502, G602, Razer Taipan, Naga 2014 and Hex and some other mouse that I forget. My Microcenter sucks because they have no mice out to try, just retail boxes.....what a crock.

The Taipan and the G700 felt the best to me. The 700 actually was long enough too. The Naga 2014 felt good too (buttons aside) but it was a little short. I loved the G502 button feedback and sound, especially the M1, M2 and wheel was nice albeit a little high up. The mouse was just too narrow though. It was almost a perfect fit because of it's length...very disappointing to get that close.

With all that said, for various reasons I wouldn't buy any of them.

So far I'm looking at the Naos and Avior 7000, the Kone XTD Optical...maybe laser version, the DA 2013 (if the price makes it a bargain only). The Tyon is supposed to release tomorrow and I like that it frees up the upper thumb buttons and has a dedicated shift. I've been learning about sensors from you guys and am reading that the 3310 and 3309 are the go-to, correct me if I'm wrong though. I still don't know if laser would bother me since I'm not a competitive player. The thing I don't want is a faulty, buggy sensor...optical or laser both. I need your help to understand how acceleration affects my gameplay because I haven't ever witnessed the comparison between having it and not. If laser has it, and it's bad then I don't want laser.

*If you're looking for a mousepad too, please try to answer the following questions:
Quote:
7. Hard or cloth?*

I think I want hard. It's annoying to me when the mouse has too much friction with the pad.

*8. Rough or smooth?*
Smooth?? Not sure. I want very responsive and ease of mobility. I'll take the responsibvility of stopping my mouse I don't need the pad to help me with that. I just want the sensor to never fail at picking up the pad's surface.

*9. Which size approximately?*

Doesn't matter....whatever you experts think is best. I will say I have always used the cheap no-name pads. That size is universally small to me so maybe twice that size...what is that like 18" or so?.

10. What's your maximum budget?

I'd like to spend under $100 on a mouse but I can go higher if there is a mouse worth that. Same with the pad, If a pad is $70 there better be a good reason for it. I'd say $50 or so for a pad I probably won't ask too many questions. Higher than that and I'm going to ask what does it do for me that a 50$ pad will not._


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirCrabsAlot*
> 
> Hey guys. I've had my Master Race membership card since 1995 and have been professionaly working in IT for almost 15 years now. I've not had the biggest budget for peripherals in the past but I'm in a position now to get a good mouse and pad.
> 
> I guess I'll start with answering the questions. Also thanks for any help, much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_"...Naos and Avior 7000, the Kone XTD Optical"_

Well the Naos is certainly to small then and the Deathadder seems to short for you as well.

Dimensions - Length x Width x Height ...

Logitech G502:
132x75x40mm

Mionix Naos 7000:
125x65x36mm

Mionix Avior 7000:
131x85x39mm

Roccat Kone XTD:
135x78x40mm

Steelseries Rival:
133x70x45mm

Razer Deathadder 2013:
127x70x44mm

Keep in mind thats only the approximate measurements the manufacturers provide - how they actually fit is different as such the Avior has a really small butt for example and the Kone XTD is really high in the front and the Naos probably includes the extra grips left and right just like the G502 does probably include its thumb-rest in it 's measurements which will make choosing them pretty hard. Better look for reviews here in the subforum many of them do messure certain parts out and compare them to certain models. If there is no measurment or no model shown that you can compare with ask them to provide a photo in the thread that is. Finding a long and wide mouse is pretty hard. You will certainly have to make a compromise in terms of either features or quality (as long as it 's not to extreme it 's ok do so since grip and performance is way more important thant a mouse that lives 10 years but doesn't fit your hand that is or tracks like ****).

Having long fingers and a not to wide hand as well you might want look into the Rival as well - in terms of fit that thing was as long as for me to completely rest my hand in Plam-Grip on it. Even if the coating is bound to not be the best rubber-coating for example when compared to Logitech and the Build-Quality is only okish not the best but not the worst (like Razor). The performance is pretty good at many different sensor steps / combinations thought.

Keep in mind in theory the Rival will be less wide then the G502 but that 's only in theory most likely of the differences above. The Rival is pretty boxy making it better for a certain kind of long/medium-width hands to fit (or not).

Cheers

---

Edit - and as far as the Mousepad goes:

Reading the forums the last few days especially from knowledgeable people it seems like a waste to spend to much in terms of performance. Most of the time your pay either the brand or the looks rather then performance or quality (as in a 50$ dollar pad will most likely not perform better then a 10$ pad with the same characteristics neither hold any longer if the 10$ pad is half-well made).

As to get to recommendations - as I heard Skylit (he 's one of the most knowledgeable people in terms of sensor technics and internals here) really likes the Allsop Raindrop XL and Maximilian Kohler seems to recommend the HandStand Supermat which is also available in xtra-large (sorry if I got some infos wrong that 's just what I remember).

As for me I'm pretty fine of with my QcK+ but I guess there are some better ones in term of quality out there for the pricepoint like recommended above. Maybe someone else has a better tip though.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Do you like heavy? The Logitech G502 is 120g without cable, and you can add weights even. If you read any of my notes so far, I really like the g502 except for its weight. I don't know what country you're from, but if any local electronic stores display gaming mice you should try to test it out. My Best Buy had the g502 on display. I cannot speak for any of the 4 mice you listed because I have not tried them.


I don't like them too much, because even with 800 dpi it's not easy to do some quick movements.
In Moscow, there's only one electronic store which has mouse display, but there are only inexpensive brands AFAIK. Thank you anyway.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirCrabsAlot*
> 
> Hey guys. I've had my Master Race membership card since 1995 and have been professionaly working in IT for almost 15 years now. I've not had the biggest budget for peripherals in the past but I'm in a position now to get a good mouse and pad.
> 
> I guess I'll start with answering the questions. Also thanks for any help, much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> _If the mouse was big enough I'd use Palm but I'm forced to use Fingertip. To my middle finger my hand is 8" / 20cm. My fingers are skinny and long._
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> _In between High and Medium. I've only ever had cheapy mouse pads that weren't big enough to suit me. That causes me to have to lift off after 4" to do a full turn. I usually move a total of about 8" for a full 360 turn.
> So I guess 800-1000 dpi??_
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> _Sky is the limit but a $150 mouse better perform and have a 5 year warranty or I won't buy it._
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, I'm a fan of thumb buttons and maybe a couple more like at the edge of M1/M2 or right side of mouse if placed right but those aren't necessary. If a wheel does side scroll I hardly use it because I end up scrolling the wheel when I just want to move it left or right.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> _RPG,FPS and RTS_
> 
> _i.e. Skyrim, Fallout, Starcraft (Bnet), Diablo 3, LOL, Farcry, Crysis, Dead Space, might be getting Arma III or check out DayZ at some point._
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> _I don't know if I've noticed the difference. I just want my mouse to be as accurate as it can and not under-perform. If I change speed then the mouse should reflect that 1:1, does that help answer this?_
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> _I like the idea of extrememly low LOD. Mose mice I've had suck at this and it's annoying.
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm on the fence about weight. On one hand a super light mouse is easy to move around but can feel cheap and hollow. A heavy mouse can add more friction and require more effort to move but gives you a feeling something being present in your hand and that you purchased quality. I don't necessarily need super light weight. I've heard the complaints about the Naos/Avior being too light for some. I picked up the G700 and that mouse seemed too heavy to me. The Proteus is a considered heavy but without weights it didn't seem too bad to me. The DA2013 has a nice weight to it if that is a good reference.
> 
> I am right handed so either ambidextrous or right handed mice. Ideally I'd like a mouse to fit like a glove but still allow me to control it.
> 
> I want a braided cord, no gloss, I like sweatproof and grippy. The rubberized feel is nice and I HATE fingerprints in my stuff. I like a low activation with nice feedback. The G502 M1 and M2 were supreme to me. Loved how clicky and responsive they were. I don't care about software or memory...I mean I'll use it if it's good. I just don't want to plug the mouse in and be hindered by any required nonsense. If the software is worthwhile and is stable that's fine. I've heard the Roccat software is nice but that Synapse sucks.....I don't have any experience with either so I don't know._
> 
> _Just wanted to add my experience with the feel of some mice in my local stores:_
> 
> _My local Best Buy had a G700, G502, G602, Razer Taipan, Naga 2014 and Hex and some other mouse that I forget. My Microcenter sucks because they have no mice out to try, just retail boxes.....what a crock.
> 
> The Taipan and the G700 felt the best to me. The 700 actually was long enough too. The Naga 2014 felt good too (buttons aside) but it was a little short. I loved the G502 button feedback and sound, especially the M1, M2 and wheel was nice albeit a little high up. The mouse was just too narrow though. It was almost a perfect fit because of it's length...very disappointing to get that close.
> 
> With all that said, for various reasons I wouldn't buy any of them.
> 
> So far I'm looking at the Naos and Avior 7000, the Kone XTD Optical...maybe laser version, the DA 2013 (if the price makes it a bargain only). The Tyon is supposed to release tomorrow and I like that it frees up the upper thumb buttons and has a dedicated shift. I've been learning about sensors from you guys and am reading that the 3310 and 3309 are the go-to, correct me if I'm wrong though. I still don't know if laser would bother me since I'm not a competitive player. The thing I don't want is a faulty, buggy sensor...optical or laser both. I need your help to understand how acceleration affects my gameplay because I haven't ever witnessed the comparison between having it and not. If laser has it, and it's bad then I don't want laser.
> 
> *If you're looking for a mousepad too, please try to answer the following questions:
> Quote:
> 7. Hard or cloth?*
> 
> I think I want hard. It's annoying to me when the mouse has too much friction with the pad.
> 
> *8. Rough or smooth?*
> Smooth?? Not sure. I want very responsive and ease of mobility. I'll take the responsibvility of stopping my mouse I don't need the pad to help me with that. I just want the sensor to never fail at picking up the pad's surface.
> 
> *9. Which size approximately?*
> 
> Doesn't matter....whatever you experts think is best. I will say I have always used the cheap no-name pads. That size is universally small to me so maybe twice that size...what is that like 18" or so?.
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> I'd like to spend under $100 on a mouse but I can go higher if there is a mouse worth that. Same with the pad, If a pad is $70 there better be a good reason for it. I'd say $50 or so for a pad I probably won't ask too many questions. Higher than that and I'm going to ask what does it do for me that a 50$ pad will not._


Alright so you want hard and you can fingertip. Avior 8200 and, well, choose your pick of hard mat. I used to use a Corsair MM400 in my laser days, great pad. Keep in mind that I am actually recommending a laser mouse because the 3310 sensor, which is an optical, struggles with high LOD on a lot of hard mats. If you want the most accurate tracking, you MUST use this mouse with a hard mat. It will still be slightly less accurate than optical + cloth, just want to make you aware of that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Today I drove to Fry's and picked up 3 additional mice: Mionix Naos 7000, Roccat Kone Pure (representative for the Military), and Corsair M65 White (representative for the M45). 30 day return policy should give me ample of time to see which shape I like the most. My initial impressions are:
> 
> *Mionix Naos 7000:*
> +Best ergonomics out of the 4 mice. 1/4
> +Very nice soft-touch texture
> +MB1/MB2 clicks on par with the Logitech G502*
> +Forward/Back side buttons feel really responsive
> +Claw grip friendly!
> +Not heavy for its size
> +Scroll wheel click feels better after play testing. 2/4
> 
> -MB2 has a sweet spot and a weird hollow spot on the side (QC?) Only noticeable if purposely clicking off center.
> -Not as contoured as I would like
> -Scroll wheel has some wobble
> -Scroll wheel click doesn't feel that good, ranks 3/4
> 
> *Roccat Kone Pure*: (stand-in for Military edition)
> +Finger-tip friendly
> +Very nice scroll wheel
> +Best scroll wheel click, ranks 1/4
> 
> -Coating lacks grip, too smooth for me EDIT: Just read up on the coating and supposedly it feels more rubberized/grippy after use.
> -Too small overall. Finger-tip grip is the only way I'd use it (I used finger-tip on my previous mouse, CM Storm Spawn)
> 
> *Corsair M65 Glossy White* (stand-in for M45)
> +Interesting shape and design (never tried the G9x before)
> +Finger-tip friendly, unsure about claw-grip*
> +Nicest scroll wheel up/down, ranks 1/4
> +Sandpaper sides have a good first impression so far
> 
> +/- Only the glossy white version was in stock. The M45 would have a soft-touch coating instead of the gloss, so I don't know how that coat feels.
> 
> -MB1/MB2 clicks feel the worst, 4/4. MB2 feels mushy
> -Scroll wheel click is the worst, 4/4. Hard to tell when it actuates.
> -Small butt/body feels weird on my palm. I don't think I'd claw-grip this.*
> 
> I have not compared performance, especially because two of the mice were bought just to try the shape. I might move this to its own thread if that's more appropriate. Otherwise, I'm just writing down my notes to help me formulate a final decision on what mouse to move forward with.
> 
> TL;DR
> 
> *1. Mionix Naos 7000*
> Love almost everything except the scroll wheel (-slight wobble) and MB2 variable sweet spots
> *2. Logitech Proteus G502*
> Love almost everything except the scroll wheel (+click/free mode, +side-to-side, -button is ok, -slight wobble) and the weight (heaviest)
> *3. Roccat Kone Pure*
> Safe choice for finger-tip but coating is too smoothand overall size is too small
> *4. Corsair Vengeance M65*
> Interesting choice for finger-tip and nicest scroll up/down wheel, but actual button presses are god awful


You might want to exchange the Naos, that sounds kind of weird. I know some people have been having some odd QC issues with Mionix lately, but their support is usually very responsive.


----------



## SirAdeno

Hello, OCN. I'm kind of new to this mouse thing since I only use uhh.. kinda normal, everyday mice since the beginning, although I also play competitive video games on my computer like some FPS's and League of Legends. I usually only disable the "enhance pointer precision" in Windows because I think it's causing accel, put the windows pointer speed setting at 8/11 and change the sensitivity in my games to a fairly high setting. I don't know what DPI my mouse is most of the time. lol Here we go.


What's your grip style?
*I exclusively use a fingertip grip. Barely any arm movements, and a little mouse lifting here and there.*

What's your sensitivity?
*I think med to high? Maybe high.*

What's your maximum budget?
*Cheap is better of course. But if the mouse is at the right price even if it's expensive, that's good for me.*

Do you want additional buttons?
*I think this is one of the main reasons I want a new mouse. No additional buttons is kind of a turn off for me.*

What games do you play?
*League, FPS.*

Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes. I don't like it.*

Other relevant information:
*I would like some fairly light mice and small mice since I fingertip. My hand measures at like 185 to 190 mm from tip of the middle finger to the base of the palm.

I've researched a lot before posting on this, and I chose at most 2 mice from the following brands (I mainly chose mice that are kind of small according to the dimensions on their websites and I chose only optical mice since a lot of people here say that lasers have problems):

Razer:
Abyssus 2014 (it doesn't have extra buttons, but if Razer products are so worth it, then this might be nice even without the buttons)

Roccat:
Kone Pure Military/Optical
Kova/Kova+

SteelSeries:
Kana v2
Kinzu v2/v3 (if it comes out)

Corsair:
Raptor M45
Raptor M40

Cooler Master:
Storm Recon (I've read there's some problems regarding the build quality, the bad shape of the mouse, and bad software)
Storm Alcor
and maybe the Storm Spawn because a lot of people are commending it for fingertip grippers

Mionix:
Avior 7000

Logitech:
G402 (I don't know if the size will fit a fingertip style given the size of my hand)

I've actually browsed Logitech, but I dunno, the G400s looked off to me, and the G502 seems to be only for palm and claw grippers.

Also, I'm looking to narrow my list down to 3 mice, and get the one that is available at my region. If you have other suggestions, tell me.*









Edit: Took a tour at Logitech's website again because I know that Logitech has been performing very well in the electronics department through out the years, and eyed the G402. Added that to my list.


----------



## DTrinh09

@SirAdeno Always set your windows sensitivity at 6/11 and adjust everything after. If you want higher sensitivity, get a higher DPI mouse and adjust your in-game sensitivity accordingly

Do you prefer ambidextrous or right-handed mice?
How heavy do you like your mouse?

I'm testing 4 mice at the moment and shape/feel is the most important factor to me. I realized I'm a finger-tip user after all these years of thinking I was a claw. So, if you like smaller mice, CM Storm Spawn (3 years user) and Roccat Kone Pure Military may be great options for you; both are pretty light mice.

If you like super heavy mice, don't rule out the Logitech G502 because I think I claw/finger-tip gripped it for the week I used it in my rotation testing.

I'm not a fan of ambi mice, so I can't comment on those options.

I don't have a Corsair M45 to test, so I got a M65 instead just to try its shape. I haven't used it thoroughly yet, but my first impressions are it'd make a good finger-tip mouse. Read my earlier post for some initial impressions.

I'm currently using the Mionix Naos 7000 and although people say it's for palm/claw, I've probably resorted back to finger-tip while playing LoL out of habit. It's like having a fuller, ergonomic, heavier version of the CM Storm Spawn if you can imagine that.


----------



## SirAdeno

Quote:


> @SirAdeno Always set your windows sensitivity at 6/11 and adjust everything after. If you want higher sensitivity, get a higher DPI mouse and adjust your in-game sensitivity accordingly
> 
> Do you prefer ambidextrous or right-handed mice?
> How heavy do you like your mouse? ...


I don't really know if I prefer a right-handed one or an ambidextrous one. So, I can't really answer that. Although I do like the look of some of the ambidextrous ones, like the Kana, the Taipan and the Recon.

Hmm.. I want it to be light, but not very light. I used a DeathAdder once when I borrowed my friend's to play like 2 games of League. Wait.. I'm not even sure if that's a DeathAdder, but I'm sure it's a Razer one. Anyway, it was heavy and big, and the "ergonomic" shape of it doesn't feel good to me because I fingertip. I think I don't want the mouse touching any part of my palm whatsoever.

Is the G402 heavy? I like the look of it. And I have the opinion that Logitech has great build quality.

I like the look of the M45, although I can't remember why, but I've put some negative points on it on my notepad while I was researching.

Naos 7000 huh? If it's a heavier version of the Spawn, then I think the Spawn could be better for me.


----------



## Aventadoor

How does Roccat's 3090 iimplementation feel compared to lets say Zowie?


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> ...
> 
> [*] What's your grip style?
> *I exclusively use a fingertip grip. Barely any arm movements, and a little mouse lifting here and there.*
> 
> ...





Just for an approximate shape comparison for smaller to medium sized mice.

From left to right:

Roccat Savu (just a tad bit bigger then the Kone Pure Military/Optical otherwise the same shape), G402, Razer Taipan, Steelseries Kana V2

I'd go for the Kana V2 for Fingertip or ... maybe the Zowie FK1 (didn't try / compare that size yet thought) for me however - the Claw-/Fingertip Hybrid of the Savu shape in terms of versatility and feel is still unmatched thought







.. it has the best butt of them all - not to big but very well rounded and comfortable if you need it. Maybe I'm going to test the Kone Pure Military again.


----------



## metal571

KPM, G402, and Avior 7000 will work very well. FK1 is ONLY for FPS as its switches are Huanos which have a higher actuation force than Omrons and will get very tiring for MOBAs.


----------



## SirAdeno

Thanks for the suggestions.









I actually want the Kana v2 now, but it seems to be unavailable in my region. I only see Kana v1's in the in online shopping lists and store websites here. FK1 and G402 are also nowhere to be found.

So, the Kone Pure Optical and Savu stay in my list. Mind you, it's an Optical, not a Military as the Military is also nowhere to be found. Any notable differences between them?

I also found a Xornet, which I understand is similar to the Spawn. But I read you need to be picky about the firmware with the Spawn. I can kind of deal with that if it's a really good mouse. But what about the Xornet?


----------



## IamInsane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Kone Pure Optical and Savu stay in my list. Mind you, it's an Optical, not a Military as the Military is also nowhere to be found. Any notable differences between them?
> 
> I also found a Xornet, which I understand is similar to the Spawn. But I read you need to be picky about the firmware with the Spawn. I can kind of deal with that if it's a really good mouse. But what about the Xornet?


Kone optical has an ADNS 3090 sensor and the military version has a Pixart 3310 sensor. Otherwise they are the same. The Xornet is a cheaper Spawn, and has a lower end sensor. Spawn has the ADNS 3090 sensor and the Xornet a ADNS-A3050 . For a $20 mouse the Xornet is ok.


----------



## SirAdeno

Thanks a lot.









I have currently narrowed my list down to the Savu, Kone Pure Optical, and the G402. Will test the feel of each mice first before buying.

What are your recommended mouse pad types for opticals? I've once used a hard one and didn't like it. It hurts my wrist. I like a comfortable pad but I don't like it having so much drag force.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have currently narrowed my list down to the Savu, Kone Pure Optical, and the G402. Will test the feel of each mice first before buying.
> 
> What are your recommended mouse pad types for opticals? I've once used a hard one and didn't like it. It hurts my wrist. I like a comfortable pad but I don't like it having so much drag force.


Always cloth. There are faster pads and slower pads. I usually recommend the QcK+ for first time buyers. It's actually pretty fast out of the box, and if you wash it regularly it maintains its glide pretty well.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually want the Kana v2 now, but it seems to be unavailable in my region. I only see Kana v1's in the in online shopping lists and store websites here. FK1 and G402 are also nowhere to be found.
> 
> So, the Kone Pure Optical and Savu stay in my list. Mind you, it's an Optical, not a Military as the Military is also nowhere to be found. Any notable differences between them?
> 
> I also found a Xornet, which I understand is similar to the Spawn. But I read you need to be picky about the firmware with the Spawn. I can kind of deal with that if it's a really good mouse. But what about the Xornet?


Wait a bit I'm a Savu shape lover (the Sensor implementation not so much) and ordered the Kone Pure Military which will arrive by tuesday/wednessday. I'll share my opinions on you whats better from both. Thought I think the sensor in my Savu is malfunctioning even thought I opened the mouse and cleaned everything including the lens.

Btw. which country are you looking for ? Maybe Amazon.de/.co.uk is an option if it 's in Europe.


----------



## SirAdeno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> Wait a bit I'm a Savu shape lover (the Sensor implementation not so much) and ordered the Kone Pure Military which will arrive by tuesday/wednessday. I'll share my opinions on you whats better from both. Thought I think the sensor in my Savu is malfunctioning even thought I opened the mouse and cleaned everything including the lens.
> 
> Btw. which country are you looking for ? Maybe Amazon.de/.co.uk is an option if it 's in Europe.


I'm living in the Philippines. Third world country, so it's a bit hard to get these kinds of things from here. Also, shipping to here is a pain, there'll be a lot of extra shipping costs and stuff will end up so much more expensive than normal, so that's out of my alley.

I'm curious as to how the Savu compares to the Kone Pures height-wise.


----------



## Xenocidal

*What's your grip style?* fingertip/palm (depends on mouse shape, more often fingertip with wrist resting on pad)
*What's your sensitivity?* all over depending on game, prefer high sensitivty with low movement so I can have a smaller mouse pad, but have a hard time getting small movements to work above 2000dpi
*What's your maximum budget?* don't care
*Do you want additional buttons?* 5 button minimum (right handed)
*What games do you play?* FPS/mmo/rpg/rts etc (no MOBA)
*Do you mind about prediction?* yes
*Other relevant information:* Gone through various mice over the years, currently on a Kone Pure Optical and it is just too small and not the right shape for me. I have a Corsair M65 at work and that shape is a lot closer, though the length might be a bit long (don't palm that often and it touches ever when i try to fingertip). My best fits over the years have been MS IE 3.0, Logitech MX1000, and my Logitech G9x. (medium hands)
Been considering the DA2013 but Razer kinda scares me. Only thing I've had of theirs was the lachesis and it was rubbish. Also been looking at the G502 but haven't found a good comparison yet to the other mice I liked.


----------



## Phaeder

What's your grip style?
Something in between palm and fingertip grip.
What's your sensitivity?
Med/low. Dota 1600 dpi. CSGO 400 dpi, about 50cm/360.
What's your maximum budget?
About 70€.
Do you want additional buttons?
I need one button for changing dpi (can be hidden) and I would like one or two thumb buttons on the left side. Necessary is just the dpi button.
What games do you play?
Mostly CSGO and Dota.
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know if I have any experience with it so... Let's say I don't want any.
Other relevant information:
I have currently Logitech G5 (yes, it's 8 years old) and I feel I need something a little bit smaller . I've been thinking about Roccat Kone Pure Military bundle. I am using cloth pads (QCK atm). No Razer.
Thanks for your advice guys.

PS: Do any one of you know what is the situation with QCK+ team design pads? Suddenly there are none available in shops in my country and they even removed them from their websites.
PPS: Feel free to recommend me a BIG cloth pad. I need a new one too.


----------



## marcovh

Hi,

After having purchased alot of gaming mice i came here to consult you guys.. as since my old mx518 died im unable to find a proper replacement.









*What's your grip style?* Depends really i notice myself being all over the shop.. pref right handed mouse looking like a "logitech mx518.."
*What's your sensitivity?* low, 1.9. low/mid pref.. now 400dpi but maybe it was lower on the mx500/10/18 at that time unable to find specs.
*What's your maximum budget?* doesnt matter
*Do you want additional buttons?* 2 side buttons, 1dpi changer.. but not really needed.
*What games do you play?* FPS Games! currently: CS / CS:GO.
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes! No prediction/accel wanted.
*Other relevant information:* Used to play best with MX500/10/18. Since then unable to find a proper mouse, which made me come here to consult you guys!
*Input anything else you want.* Mouse with a cord.

Other than that i just purchased the SS Sensei and noticed the polling rate is nowhere near being trustworthy.. 500hz flux between 360/680ish.. :|
Im personally looking at a G400 or SS Ikari at the moment but before purchasing one or both id like ur advice!

Thanks in advance,
Marco - phn^


----------



## metal571

Grip doesn't matter? There are a lot of FPS mice out there, but the Sensei isn't one I'd recommend. You said you didn't want acceleration or prediction and yet you're using a mouse with inconsistent acceleration...

Anyway, a short list would look something like this.

Mionix Naos and Avior 7000
Roccat Kone Pure Military
Logitech G402 and G502 (latter is on the heavy side)
SteelSeries Rival
Zowie FK1
Razer DeathAdder 2013 (slight input lag, terrible drivers)

I use the Avior with a fingertip grip and it's perfect for FPS.


----------



## marcovh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Grip doesn't matter? There are a lot of FPS mice out there, but the Sensei isn't one I'd recommend. You said you didn't want acceleration or prediction and yet you're using a mouse with inconsistent acceleration....


I say false advertisement..









[Edit]BIG[/edit] Thanks for your reply though.. anyone else on this matter?

Didnt knew about Mionix, thanks for making me aware! Can one nowadays really be this good?









kr,
phn^


----------



## metal571

All 9500 and 9800 equipped mice have inconsistent acceleration. If you want to be serious about FPS gaming, either get used to them on hard mats or don't use them. Even on hard mats they still exhibit a floaty inconsistent tracking. If you're looking for an optical Sensei like I was after my bad experience with my own Sensei, try the FK1 or the Avior. I settled on the Avior and play BF4 every day with it.


----------



## Phaeder

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaeder*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Something in between palm and fingertip grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> Med/low. Dota 1600 dpi. CSGO 400 dpi, about 50cm/360.
> What's your maximum budget?
> About 70€.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I need one button for changing dpi (can be hidden) and I would like one or two thumb buttons on the left side. Necessary is just the dpi button.
> What games do you play?
> Mostly CSGO and Dota.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know if I have any experience with it so... Let's say I don't want any.
> Other relevant information:
> I have currently Logitech G5 (yes, it's 8 years old) and I feel I need something a little bit smaller . I've been thinking about Roccat Kone Pure Military bundle. I am using cloth pads (QCK atm). No Razer.
> Thanks for your advice guys.
> 
> PS: Do any one of you know what is the situation with QCK+ team design pads? Suddenly there are none available in shops in my country and they even removed them from their websites.
> PPS: Feel free to recommend me a BIG cloth pad. I need a new one too.





Anyone?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaeder*
> 
> Anyone?


I really like the feel of the Kone Pure Military. I'm working on a technical issue with the sensor on mine at the moment, so there's that. Shouldn't be an issue, really. However, coming from a g5, you will probably be really comfortable with the KPM. I would also recommend looking at the Zowie FK1. Great unit.

As for cloth mouse pads. There are three that I recommend constantly.

1.) Steelseries QCK Heavy
2.) Puretrak Talent
3.) Roccat Taito


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I really like the feel of the Kone Pure Military. I'm working on a technical issue with the sensor on mine at the moment, so there's that. Shouldn't be an issue, really. However, coming from a g5, you will probably be really comfortable with the KPM. I would also recommend looking at the Zowie FK1. Great unit.
> 
> As for cloth mouse pads. There are three that I recommend constantly.
> 
> 1.) Steelseries QCK Heavy
> 2.) Puretrak Talent
> 3.) Roccat Taito


Many say the Taito frays and wears out faster, any thoughts on that? Thought I read that somewhere on here.


----------



## JMattes

What's your grip style?
Don't have one that I know of
What's your sensitivity?
Never really set one, but people tell me my mouse moves fast
What's your maximum budget?
$100-150 I guess
Do you want additional buttons?
I do like side button you can program
What games do you play?
MMOs, Star Conflict, Star Citizen
Do you mind about prediction?
What?
Other relevant information:
Wireless would be cool
After looking at this list I have come to realize I know absolutely nothing about mice other than I have one and it worked. Geez I feel dumb haha..
I have a Razor Naga that I've had for as long as I can remember and before that I was using another Razor that was both wired and wireless back when I had a laptop.

The Naga still works just fine, but I was looking for a change. Thinking maybe a nice wireless model would be cool. I do like the programmable buttons on the side as they were great when I played Elder Scrolls and Wild Star.

Up for any suggestions and my price range is flexible.


----------



## Trull

No one here is going to recommend you a wireless mouse, since wireless is a lag fest and most wireless mice have crappy sensors.

Other than that, could be any mouse based on your answers, but you should take a look at the most recommended ones. Generally you want a low-profile, non-ergonomical mouse that is light and has a proven-to-be-good optical sensor with no added BS like prediction, acceleration, etc. I'd recommend the G100s but I don't know how important side buttons are to you (G100s has no side buttons).


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Many say the Taito frays and wears out faster, any thoughts on that? Thought I read that somewhere on here.


I couldn't imagine. It's really seems built like a tank. I guess the cover could bubble, but I haven't seen any evidence to that. It seems about as close to the Puretrak Talent as I've ever seen with a pure black surface. I really enjoy it. The only downside I've found is that it seems to have a slight resistance variance between horizontal and vertical. Not as bad as the QCK surface, but it's there, where the Talent is very very even.


----------



## Blackcurrent

I purchased the Logitech G402 yesterday and I'm super happy about it. Thanks Metal


----------



## icecool

Hi guys this is gonna be my first time buying a proper gaming mouse for the pc but I dont have any clue on what to buy, all I know is that I have a fingertip style grip, my current mouse is causing my fingers to be uncomfortable after using it for a while so im hoping i can get a good comfortable mouse, thank you!

What's your grip style?
Finger tip style
What's your sensitivity?
Not really sure but playing BF4,dota, and witcher 2 currently
What's your maximum budget?
around 40 pounds,around 70 dollars

Do you want additional buttons?
I guess one or two extra would be nice
What games do you play?
BF4, dota, Witcher 2
Do you mind about prediction?
do not have any experience with it!
Other relevant information:
First time buying a gaming mouse if that helps! lol


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackcurrent*
> 
> I purchased the Logitech G402 yesterday and I'm super happy about it. Thanks Metal


No problem, I hope my video review also helped.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icecool*
> 
> Hi guys this is gonna be my first time buying a proper gaming mouse for the pc but I dont have any clue on what to buy, all I know is that I have a fingertip style grip, my current mouse is causing my fingers to be uncomfortable after using it for a while so im hoping i can get a good comfortable mouse, thank you!
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Finger tip style
> What's your sensitivity?
> Not really sure but playing BF4,dota, and witcher 2 currently
> What's your maximum budget?
> around 40 pounds,around 70 dollars
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I guess one or two extra would be nice
> What games do you play?
> BF4, dota, Witcher 2
> Do you mind about prediction?
> do not have any experience with it!
> Other relevant information:
> First time buying a gaming mouse if that helps! lol


Mionix Avior 7000


----------



## icecool

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> No problem, I hope my video review also helped.
> Mionix Avior 7000


thx for the suggestion but that mouse is way out of my budget! ive been looking at the kana v2, is it a good mouse?


----------



## marcovh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> All 9500 and 9800 equipped mice have inconsistent acceleration. If you want to be serious about FPS gaming, either get used to them on hard mats or don't use them. Even on hard mats they still exhibit a floaty inconsistent tracking. If you're looking for an optical Sensei like I was after my bad experience with my own Sensei, try the FK1 or the Avior. I settled on the Avior and play BF4 every day with it.


Basically ive narrowed my list down to this..

Zowie FK1
Avior Naos 3200/7000 or Avior 7000.
Roccat Savu or Kone Pure Military.

and still the "SS Ikari Optical" seems legit going by what people spread around on the net.. correct me if im wrong!

I intend to use the new mouse on my SS Qck+

If you have exp with these, could you please help me and state why you would pick one over the other?
Again im looking for a mouse that does not have accel nor prediction and is good for executing flick shots and hitting things consistently. (ie. sensei comes up short or passes the target while performing the same movement.







)

kr,
phn^


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icecool*
> 
> thx for the suggestion but that mouse is way out of my budget! ive been looking at the kana v2, is it a good mouse?


High liftoff distance and near-zero warranty support. Check pricing on the Zowie FK1.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marcovh*
> 
> Basically ive narrowed my list down to this..
> 
> Zowie FK1
> Avior Naos 3200/7000 or Avior 7000.
> Roccat Savu or Kone Pure Military.
> 
> and still the "SS Ikari Optical" seems legit going by what people spread around on the net.. correct me if im wrong!
> 
> I intend to use the new mouse on my SS Qck+
> 
> If you have exp with these, could you please help me and state why you would pick one over the other?
> Again im looking for a mouse that does not have accel nor prediction and is good for executing flick shots and hitting things consistently. (ie. sensei comes up short or passes the target while performing the same movement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> kr,
> phn^


Don't even think about an Ikari. I'm pretty sure that mouse isn't even made anymore. All the rest that you listed are great. Don't get the Naos 3200 though, stick with the Mionix 7000 series mice only. The FK1, Avior 7000, Savu, and KPM are all great mice that will all fit your needs. From there it's a matter of which features you need and what shape you prefer.


----------



## marcovh

Alright thanks for the feedback!

On top of this you say that theyre all great mice and that its now a matter of features and shape.. which makes me doubt again grmbl








I got my selection ready but i wonder which you would say comes closest to the old logitech mx500series.. *Bet its the Avior 7K* ^^

I do not have a store near where im able to hold em all before purchase









ill wait for your reply before placing my order in! thanks again Metal571.

kr,
marco.


----------



## metal571

I used to use a lot of Logitechs. My mouse history is the following, maybe it might help.

G5
MX518
DA 3.5G
G400
G400s
Sensei
Rival
Avior

I've fingertipped them all, but when I had my run with the Sensei I realized I loved ambi shapes a lot more because they feel more like pointing a pencil and it just felt more pinpoint. My time with the Rival was enjoyable due to the sensor, and the shape was comfortable, but the Avior is when I really peaked in finding the right mouse for me. It feels nothing like the G400 shape, but that's a good thing for me. So I can't tell you whether you will like ambi mice better or not, really. I feel they are more likely to be comfortable for most people though as they tend to take on more accomodating and simpler shapes. The Avior is the most exotic ambi mouse shape I know of, though, in terms of ergonomics. And if you aren't a claw or fingertip, the side buttons will get in the way and could be annoying.


----------



## marcovh

Awesome!

Thanks again m8, ill update my Paypal acc and get me one of those Aviors! ^^

kr,
mvh.


----------



## Xenocidal

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenocidal*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* fingertip/palm (depends on mouse shape, more often fingertip with wrist resting on pad)
> *What's your sensitivity?* all over depending on game, prefer high sensitivty with low movement so I can have a smaller mouse pad, but have a hard time getting small movements to work above 2000dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?* don't care
> *Do you want additional buttons?* 5 button minimum (right handed)
> *What games do you play?* FPS/mmo/rpg/rts etc (no MOBA)
> *Do you mind about prediction?* yes
> *Other relevant information:* Gone through various mice over the years, currently on a Kone Pure Optical and it is just too small and not the right shape for me. I have a Corsair M65 at work and that shape is a lot closer, though the length might be a bit long (don't palm that often and it touches ever when i try to fingertipm but palming it doesn't feel good either). My best fits over the years have been MS IE 3.0, Logitech MX1000, and my Logitech G9x. (medium/wide hands)
> Been considering the DA2013 but Razer quality scares me. Only thing I've had of theirs was the lachesis and it was rubbish. Also been looking at the G502 but haven't found a good comparison yet to the other mice I liked.






Nabbed a G502 to test, returning it after a few hours. Too narrow maybe, made my hand hurt a bit from the pinky curl/tuck on the side. (Roccat Kone Pure Optical has same problem)

Anyone with a similar mouse history want to chime in? Considering just grabbing a Corsair M45 on the cheap as a stop gap until something to really replace the g9x comes out, never tried a Deathadder though. They don't seem that much wider and the ridged edges might be bad for my finger placement. Is there a mouse out there I am missing that should be in the running?


----------



## Blackcurrent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenocidal*
> 
> 
> Nabbed a G502 to test, returning it after a few hours. Too narrow maybe, made my hand hurt a bit from the pinky curl/tuck on the side. (Roccat Kone Pure Optical has same problem)
> 
> Anyone with a similar mouse history want to chime in? Considering just grabbing a Corsair M45 on the cheap as a stop gap until something to really replace the g9x comes out, never tried a Deathadder though. They don't seem that much wider and the ridged edges might be bad for my finger placement. Is there a mouse out there I am missing that should be in the running?


I come from a G9 mouse and I'm loving the G402 I got a few days ago.


----------



## Mych

Check out Naos 7000 maybe.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenocidal*
> 
> 
> Nabbed a G502 to test, returning it after a few hours. Too narrow maybe, made my hand hurt a bit from the pinky curl/tuck on the side. (Roccat Kone Pure Optical has same problem)
> 
> Anyone with a similar mouse history want to chime in? Considering just grabbing a Corsair M45 on the cheap as a stop gap until something to really replace the g9x comes out, never tried a Deathadder though. They don't seem that much wider and the ridged edges might be bad for my finger placement. Is there a mouse out there I am missing that should be in the running?


A few pages back I said I was trying out several different mice to move from my old CM Storm Spawn. Well, I went from G502 - Naos 7000 - M65. The order was kind of arbitrary, but I actually ordered the M45 after I decided I like the M65's shape the most. The M45 is also a lot lighter than the M65, so now it feels great. I didn't like that the G502 felt like a brick and was a little too narrow. The Naos 7000 favors palm grip which I do not use--I like finger-tip(CM Storm Spawn) / claw (Corsair M45). Also, as comfortable as it was, it didn't feel good to me while playing MOBAs. The M45's soft-touch coating and rough sides are also very nice. Is it "The One"? Probably not, but it's a great stop-gap solution for me too. Give it a shot. Just make sure to pair it with a good mousepad because it's optical, not laser.


----------



## SirAdeno

Can someone give an opinion on whether the Alcor and G402 are fingertip grippable? My hand is about 19 cm in length from the base of the palm to the tip of the middle finger.
Quote:


> A few pages back I said I was trying out several different mice to move from my old CM Storm Spawn. Well, I went from G502 - Naos 7000 - M65. The order was kind of arbitrary, but I actually ordered the M45 after I decided I like the M65's shape the most. The M45 is also a lot lighter than the M65, so now it feels great. I didn't like that the G502 felt like a brick and was a little too narrow. The Naos 7000 favors palm grip which I do not use--I like finger-tip(CM Storm Spawn) / claw (Corsair M45). Also, as comfortable as it was, it didn't feel good to me while playing MOBAs. The M45's soft-touch coating and rough sides are also very nice. Is it "The One"? Probably not, but it's a great stop-gap solution for me too. Give it a shot. Just make sure to pair it with a good mousepad because it's optical, not laser.


I read that the mouse feet on the M45 are too thin? Can you confirm this for me? I'm also looking for a fingertip mouse, and the M45 is on my radar. Also, I feel like, with the way you're describing the M45, I get the idea that it wouldn't last long because of it's sub par build quality?


----------



## enoch81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Can someone give an opinion on whether the Alcor and G402 are fingertip grippable? My hand is about 19 cm in length from the base of the palm to the tip of the middle finger.
> I read that the mouse feet on the M45 are too thin? Can you confirm this for me? I'm also looking for a fingertip mouse, and the M45 is on my radar. Also, I feel like, with the way you're describing the M45, I get the idea that it wouldn't last long because of it's sub par build quality?


My hand is same as your in size but I resend my new Alcor because it's too unconfortable. Sede my thread in the forum for the photos.


----------



## SirAdeno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enoch81*
> 
> My hand is same as your in size but I resend my new Alcor because it's too unconfortable. Sede my thread in the forum for the photos.


Hmm.. Your grip looks like it's a palm grip, not a fingertip grip.


----------



## vitorsubs

Hey. I am here to look for some advice:

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip and palm (I am used to fingertip because I use a microsoft mouse, but I enjoy the palm grip as well)

2. What's your sensitivity? sensitivity for FPS and MOBA games

5. What games do you play? CS:GO and DOTA 2

7. Other relevant information:

What do you think about these options?

Razer Deathadder 2013
Logitech G402
Logitech G502
Roccat Savu
Roccat Kone Pure Optical
Zowie Ec1/2 eVo
Zowie FK
Steelseries Rival

I was about to buy the G502, but maybe it is too heavy for FPS and MOBA. What do you think? I've tested some mice at a local store and I really loved the feel of the Roccat Kone Pure Optical, the Razer Mamba (they didn't have the Deathadder there) and g502. My fingers are quite big, so I didn't addapt quite well to the g400s


----------



## hza

If you have a faster surface like plastic, glass or aluminium and/or use high(er) sensitivity (dpi, in-game sensitivity), heavier weight isn't that much of a problem.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitorsubs*
> 
> Hey. I am here to look for some advice:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip and palm (I am used to fingertip because I use a microsoft mouse, but I enjoy the palm grip as well)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? sensitivity for FPS and MOBA games
> 
> 5. What games do you play? CS:GO and DOTA 2
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> What do you think about these options?
> 
> Razer Deathadder 2013
> Logitech G402
> Logitech G502
> Roccat Savu
> Roccat Kone Pure Optical
> Zowie Ec1/2 eVo
> Zowie FK
> Steelseries Rival
> 
> I was about to buy the G502, but maybe it is too heavy for FPS and MOBA. What do you think? I've tested some mice at a local store and I really loved the feel of the Roccat Kone Pure Optical, the Razer Mamba (they didn't have the Deathadder there) and g502. My fingers are quite big, so I didn't addapt quite well to the g400s


Answered you in the other thread. Also, what @hza said.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitorsubs*
> 
> Hey. I am here to look for some advice:
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip and palm (I am used to fingertip because I use a microsoft mouse, but I enjoy the palm grip as well)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? sensitivity for FPS and MOBA games
> 
> 5. What games do you play? CS:GO and DOTA 2
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> What do you think about these options?
> 
> Razer Deathadder 2013
> Logitech G402
> Logitech G502
> Roccat Savu
> Roccat Kone Pure Optical
> Zowie Ec1/2 eVo
> Zowie FK
> Steelseries Rival
> 
> I was about to buy the G502, but maybe it is too heavy for FPS and MOBA. What do you think? I've tested some mice at a local store and I really loved the feel of the Roccat Kone Pure Optical, the Razer Mamba (they didn't have the Deathadder there) and g502. My fingers are quite big, so I didn't addapt quite well to the g400s


Kone Pure Optical is on amazon $39.99 (FS in US)


----------



## supergrunt69

Hey I am looking to buy a Gaming mouse since my last one broke and I had to switch to a older mouse that I had at home, the mouse I had was a 1life gm assault mouse, and I Usually play cs go on my pc and after the mouse broke I switched back to my cheap Mitsai mouse, the mouse is smaller and it looks like I play better with this smaller mouse, I am thinking about buying an Steelseries v2 kana (white) or a sharkoon fireglider with wheights, I did a bit of research and I know that the steelseries kana v2 is a smaller mouse than the sharkoon fireglider, but the sharkoon fireglider had a burst fire button that was programmable, I would **** to know what mice would you recommend me getting and if I can set any of the mice buttons to autofire because I know the kana has a steelseries engine and the sharkoon also has some kind of software that comes included with the mouse


----------



## enoch81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Kone Pure Optical is on amazon $39.99 (FS in US)


I envy the prices that amazon have in U.S.


----------



## enoch81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Hmm.. Your grip looks like it's a palm grip, not a fingertip grip.


No, that photos show what type of grip alcor forced me to use.
Now I ordered a cm storm havoc, hope it fits my hand better.


----------



## vanSCHYNEYDER

SteelSeries Rival its better than G400 ?

Im looking for a "superior" mice than G400. Is the Rival my best option ?


----------



## supergrunt69

sharkoon fireglider or steelseries kana v2 white? My play style is fingertips the game I play is usually cs go.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergrunt69*
> 
> sharkoon fireglider or steelseries kana v2 white? My play style is fingertips the game I play is usually cs go.


Kana v2 by miles. You don't want 118g for fingertip...


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanSCHYNEYDER*
> 
> SteelSeries Rival its better than G400 ?
> 
> Im looking for a "superior" mice than G400. Is the Rival my best option ?


Superior in performance or shape\size?


----------



## metal571

I'm pretty sure the Rival weighs closer to 100g without cable.


----------



## julsfof

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanSCHYNEYDER*
> 
> SteelSeries Rival its better than G400 ?
> 
> Im looking for a "superior" mice than G400. Is the Rival my best option ?


i own a couple of mice like zowie ec1, roccat savu, mmx518, deathadder and so on
currently using the rival cause best sensor in a pretty good package for the price main use is cs go (finger/palm grip, medium/big hands).

+
i like the mouse wheel. its quite stiff and very accurate but u can also spin it quite fast way better than zowie or logitech
buttons are different but fine
side rubber pads are good for low sens players who lift the mouse a lot like i do zowie was a bit slippery from time to time
sensor is near perfect cant feel any acceleration
very good tracking speeds for an optical sensor

-
rubber cable drags a bit but no big deal at least for me
soft touch finish is not as nice as the zowie's
lil bit heavy ~120g

all in all a good mouse especially for the price
roccat mouse with the same sensor costs 20 bucks more


----------



## vanSCHYNEYDER

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> Superior in performance or shape\size?


in everything ...

sensor, shape, buttons, durability ...

Rival suffers with coating like Sensei ?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm pretty sure the Rival weighs closer to 100g without cable.


It's about 108 AFAIK


----------



## metal571

That sounds right.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanSCHYNEYDER*
> 
> in everything ...
> 
> sensor, shape, buttons, durability ...
> 
> Rival suffers with coating like Sensei ?


In sensor Rival is superior. Don't know much about shape\buttons\durability. Though, some G400 users reported that the best way to hold this mouse is with thumb and pinky on the sides, and index, middle, ring fingers on the top.

Coating was bad on the first Rival batches, but now I believe that they fixed it.


----------



## tmgz

I'm looking for a small lightweight mouse and I narrowed it to the G100s and the Abyssus 2014, but here in my country the Abyssus costs like 3 times more than the G100s so I would have to wait a bit more to buy it. Is the Abyssus 2014 worth the wait and the higher price or should I just go for the G100s now?


----------



## janaso

Haven't kept up with the newest trends, so I thought I'd ask for another suggestion.

What's your grip style? -- All of them. I switch depending on what I'm doing.
What's your sensitivity? -- Medium.
Do you want additional buttons? -- Yes, the more the better.
What games do you play? -- Everything.
Do you mind about prediction? -- No.
Other relevant information? -- The mouse needs to be medium sized and light. Also, any lift-off issues are unacceptable.
The FK1 looks interesting, but maybe there's something better out there.


----------



## metal571

The Avior 7000 works for fingertip and claw but has liftoff issues on hard mats. Otherwise it is very customizable and high performing. The FK1 works well on hard mats though apparently but had some build quality issues and some scroll wheel issues


----------



## janaso

Thanks for the quick reply!

I only use hard mats and, considering my current mouse is falling apart at far too young an age and held together with tape, I have to ask: Is there a third option?


----------



## exitone

(
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmgz*
> 
> I'm looking for a small lightweight mouse and I narrowed it to the G100s and the Abyssus 2014, but here in my country the Abyssus costs like 3 times more than the G100s so I would have to wait a bit more to buy it. Is the Abyssus 2014 worth the wait and the higher price or should I just go for the G100s now?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmgz*
> 
> I'm looking for a small lightweight mouse and I narrowed it to the G100s and the Abyssus 2014, but here in my country the Abyssus costs like 3 times more than the G100s so I would have to wait a bit more to buy it. Is the Abyssus 2014 worth the wait and the higher price or should I just go for the G100s now?


I personally won't get either if you already have a suitable mouse, otherwise I would get the g100s as the abyssus is def not worth 3x more than the g100s


----------



## narandza

mionix naos 7000
1600-2000 DPI
MOBA player ( LoL, Dota2)

I use a qck+ mousepad, looking for the right artisan mousepad. I keep seeing how good hayate is for CS and flickshots, but seeing as i play mobas, which would you guys recommend?


----------



## Pendulum

I've been looking into buying a FK1 for a while now. Lately I've noticed many people saying that it has laggy buttons.

Would anybody have any comments on the latency issue or have another mouse similar to it? I'm honestly at my wit's end with my G400, the shape has become incredibly uncomfortable to me over the last year.
I've come to love ambidextrous mice, however, many of them are crap or don't have any side buttons, which are a must.


----------



## metal571

If you aren't playing FPS in the professional scene, I'd try the Avior 8200 instead. That laser sensor works on everything, and hard mats idealize the tracking quality given that sensor.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you aren't playing FPS in the professional scene, I'd try the Avior 8200 instead. That laser sensor works on everything, and hard mats idealize the tracking quality given that sensor.


I've tested two mice with that sensor in the past. Cursor feels like it's attached to a rubber band and the unpredictable jumps on lift-off are intolerable. Thanks anyway, I guess I'll hope my mouse makes it for another few month.


----------



## metal571

There are no unpredictable jumps. That's PTE stuff. There is also minimal input lag. You used an early SROM. The 9800 is very usable now.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There are no unpredictable jumps. That's PTE stuff. There is also minimal input lag. You used an early SROM. The 9800 is very usable now.


My Roccat Kone Pure jumped in an unpredictable direction with every lift. If they've fixed that and the input lag, that still leaves the uneven acceleration curve. No thanks. Still, thank you for your suggestions.


----------



## metal571

Yeah wasn't sure how critical the inconsistent acceleration was. You would probably have to look for a 3090 or the FK1


----------



## bluedevil

Almost bought a G402 today at Best Buy today, should I have? I think still might go with a CM Storm Mizar or Alcor over my DA.

http://www.amazon.com/Storm-Mizar-Ergonomic-Programmable--Fly/dp/B00LCLKJFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411950884&sr=8-1&keywords=cm+storm+mizar


----------



## DeS3InY

What's your grip style? - claw/palm, although I use the palm grip more often
What's your sensitivity? - high
What's your maximum budget? - $40 (€40)
Do you want additional buttons? - yes (dpi switch would be lovely + a few additional buttons)
What games do you play? - basically everything under the sun (except MMO and MOBA)
Do you mind about prediction? - yes
Other relevant information:
I prefer ergonomic design (I'm right handed), wired, flexible cord.
I do office work as well as game so a mouse with extra buttons for added usability would be great
I'm in Europe so getting some mice may be a problem (and may not fit in the budget)


----------



## metal571

I think that's a little strict. Give us maybe $60 and then we can work with that.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think that's a little strict. Give us maybe $60 and then we can work with that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeS3InY*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - claw/palm, although I use the palm grip more often
> What's your sensitivity? - high
> What's your maximum budget? - $40 (€40)
> Do you want additional buttons? - yes (dpi switch would be lovely + a few additional buttons)
> What games do you play? - basically everything under the sun (except MMO and MOBA)
> Do you mind about prediction? - yes
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer ergonomic design (I'm right handed), wired, flexible cord.
> I do office work as well as game so a mouse with extra buttons for added usability would be great
> I'm in Europe so getting some mice may be a problem (and may not fit in the budget)


Logitech g400s.


----------



## DeS3InY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I think that's a little strict. Give us maybe $60 and then we can work with that.


The situation and the budget are currently as it is, they cannot be magically changed
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Logitech g400s.


Thank you. I was originally aiming at that one, but it _is_ a bit over my budget (the cheapest being 50€ / $64, while most stores in my country have it for 61€ / 79$).
It seems quality has a bottom line...

Looks like I'll have to wait for a few months to accrue the difference that I don't currently have. If anyone has a cheaper alternative it would be a most appreciated input. thanks!


----------



## dunnoe

What's your grip style?
- *Fingertip. I only move my fingers and wrist.*
What's your sensitivity?
- *Logitech setpoint at 1000dpi, csgo at 4.95(raw input)*
What's your maximum budget?
- *None*
Do you want additional buttons?
- *Not necessary*
What games do you play?
- *FPS (Battlefield 3/4/hardline, csgo, etc)*
Do you mind about prediction?
- *No idea what's that. Currently using Logitech G5 gaming mouse, not sure if it has prediction.*
Other relevant information:
- *I am using Logitech G5 gaming mouse for 6/7 years with 4 x 1.7g weights. I think it is around 134g with the weights included, not sure if that includes cable weight.
G502, G602 or others?
Is wireless acceptable for gaming?
Would prefer low lag and accurate sensor.*


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeS3InY*
> 
> The situation and the budget are currently as it is, they cannot be magically changed
> Thank you. I was originally aiming at that one, but it _is_ a bit over my budget (the cheapest being 50€ / $64, while most stores in my country have it for 61€ / 79$).
> It seems quality has a bottom line...
> 
> Looks like I'll have to wait for a few months to accrue the difference that I don't currently have. If anyone has a cheaper alternative it would be a most appreciated input. thanks!


Steelseries Kana v2?

What country are you in?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - *Fingertip. I only move my fingers and wrist.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> - *Logitech setpoint at 1000dpi, csgo at 4.95(raw input)*
> What's your maximum budget?
> - *None*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - *Not necessary*
> What games do you play?
> - *FPS (Battlefield 3/4/hardline, csgo, etc)*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - *No idea what's that. Currently using Logitech G5 gaming mouse, not sure if it has prediction.*
> Other relevant information:
> - *I am using Logitech G5 gaming mouse for 6/7 years with 4 x 1.7g weights. I think it is around 134g with the weights included, not sure if that includes cable weight.
> G502, G602 or others?
> Is wireless acceptable for gaming?
> Would prefer low lag and accurate sensor.*


G502 no doubt, unless you want something lighter than 121g


----------



## DeS3InY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Steelseries Kana v2?
> 
> What country are you in?


The kana v2 is not available in stores (and is more expensive than the 400s)
I live in Croatia (for now at least).


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeS3InY*
> 
> The kana v2 is not available in stores (and is more expensive than the 400s)
> I live in Croatia (for now at least).


http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana-v2

Shipping to Croatia - are you sure? Their website says otherwise.


----------



## DeS3InY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana-v2
> 
> Shipping to Croatia - are you sure? Their website says otherwise.


I meant the availability in my local stores. the price (incl. shipping) breaks my budget more than the g400s does.

Thanks everyone, it seems I'll be gathering more funds and aiming for the g400s


----------



## jesh462

What's your grip style?
_Fingertip with some claw_
What's your sensitivity?
_800dpi_
What's your maximum budget?
_$75_
Do you want additional buttons?
_At least forward/back_
What games do you play?
_Lots of different kinds, but the only reason I want a new mouse is for FPS games._
Do you mind about prediction?
_Yes, I mind._
Other relevant information:

Priority #1 for me is comfort. #2 reliability #3 non-**** sensor #4 weight
Hand is 18.75cm long.

*G502*: The weight drives me away.
*G402*: The souped up gyroscopic sensor makes me suspicious. I'm unwilling to pay that much for a G100 with a gyroscope.
*G100*: Not enough buttons and would really like a better sensor.
*Roccat KPM*: Looks amazing but has polling issues and button lag along with non-existent support.
*FK1*: Has the mouse wheel and feet issues. I dislike having to do returns and I don't want to take a chance on receiving a quality product.
*Rival*: My wife already has this and it makes my hand cramp up, not sure why. I also don't want to deal with legendary Steel Series "reliability".
*Corsair M45*: Looks like it has questionable button placement and overall lack of comfort, looks too wide as well. However if the width isn't an issue, I can learn to live with the side buttons and potentially have a great mouse. It also helps that this thing is on sale for $39.99 on newegg right now!
*Avior 7000*: I just see random negative things about this, buttons going out or mouse non functional with no support from Mionix. No direct line, have to use email for customer support. I also see a lot of complaints about comfort being an issue with side buttons, and comfort is a huge priority for me. I know build quality is supposed to be great but I'm a little leery. It doesn't help that the cost of this mouse is quite high and I can't find it locally to try out. If someone put a gun to my head and told me to buy a mouse right now, I suppose I would buy this.
Any suggestions?








I've really tried to do my research here. I have spent quite a few hours reading this forum. It seems that EVERY other site on the internet is clueless when it comes to meeces. I've even considered a Naos 7000 in combination with an attempt to switch to a palm grip, but I still want to _not suck_ in FPS games. I feel like this may not be possible. I also feel like there aren't many great options out there for the 3310 and no other sensor comes close.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> _Fingertip with some claw_
> What's your sensitivity?
> _800dpi_
> What's your maximum budget?
> _$75_
> Do you want additional buttons?
> _At least forward/back_
> What games do you play?
> _Lots of different kinds, but the only reason I want a new mouse is for FPS games._
> Do you mind about prediction?
> _Yes, I mind._
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Priority #1 for me is comfort. #2 reliability #3 non-**** sensor #4 weight
> Hand is 18.75cm long.
> 
> *G502*: The weight drives me away.
> *G402*: The souped up gyroscopic sensor makes me suspicious. I'm unwilling to pay that much for a G100 with a gyroscope.
> *G100*: Not enough buttons and would really like a better sensor.
> *Roccat KPM*: Looks amazing but has polling issues and button lag along with non-existent support.
> *FK1*: Has the mouse wheel and feet issues. I dislike having to do returns and I don't want to take a chance on receiving a quality product.
> *Rival*: My wife already has this and it makes my hand cramp up, not sure why. I also don't want to deal with legendary Steel Series "reliability".
> *Corsair M45*: Looks like it has questionable button placement and overall lack of comfort, looks too wide as well. However if the width isn't an issue, I can learn to live with the side buttons and potentially have a great mouse. It also helps that this thing is on sale for $39.99 on newegg right now!
> *Avior 7000*: I just see random negative things about this, buttons going out or mouse non functional with no support from Mionix. No direct line, have to use email for customer support. I also see a lot of complaints about comfort being an issue with side buttons, and comfort is a huge priority for me. I know build quality is supposed to be great but I'm a little leery. It doesn't help that the cost of this mouse is quite high and I can't find it locally to try out. If someone put a gun to my head and told me to buy a mouse right now, I suppose I would buy this.
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've really tried to do my research here. I have spent quite a few hours reading this forum. It seems that EVERY other site on the internet is clueless when it comes to meeces. I've even considered a Naos 7000 in combination with an attempt to switch to a palm grip, but I still want to _not suck_ in FPS games. I feel like this may not be possible. I also feel like there aren't many great options out there for the 3310 and no other sensor comes close.


Of the ones you listed, I chose the Corsair M45. After I gave it a proper chance, I actually liked its shape and performance whereas my initial impressions were suspicious. I turned down the G502 for the same reason you did. I didn't try the Avior 7000, but I tried the Naos 7000--very comfortable, but palm-grip isn't my style and forcing fingertip or claw didn't work out in the week I tested it. If I want lackadaisical comfort, I can always use my Logitech M570 trackball wireless--**** that thing is bliss. I digress. No experience with any of the Steelseries mice.

My local retailers didn't stock the Corsair M45, but I tried the M65 just to get an idea about its shape before I pulled the trigger on the M45 through Amazon for the $39.99 price. Regarding the button placement, I find them just fine. The forward/back buttons are no problem for me, they actuate great, look slick, and not far from my fingers. Clicks are good. Feet might be a bit small, but no friction/mashing on my SS QCK mouse pad. DPI buttons are fine, but I don't switch that often. Mouse scroll feels high quality, clicks alright, scrolls quietly--make sure yours doesn't have a rattle because the M65 I initially bought had a rattle only when scrolling up. My current M45's scroll wheel is perfect.

I moved from a finger-tip/claw grip on a CM Storm Spawn to the Corsair M45. After removing all the weights, the M45 feels close to weight to the Spawn; but I don't have the numbers handy. For the value, it's hard to beat getting a mouse for under $50 and getting a 3310 sensor too. I'm certain once you get used to the new shape and practice with it in FPS games, you'll feel right at home.

EDIT: For reference, my hand length is about 17 cm


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - *Fingertip. I only move my fingers and wrist.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> - *Logitech setpoint at 1000dpi, csgo at 4.95(raw input)*
> What's your maximum budget?
> - *None*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - *Not necessary*
> What games do you play?
> - *FPS (Battlefield 3/4/hardline, csgo, etc)*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - *No idea what's that. Currently using Logitech G5 gaming mouse, not sure if it has prediction.*
> Other relevant information:
> - *I am using Logitech G5 gaming mouse for 6/7 years with 4 x 1.7g weights. I think it is around 134g with the weights included, not sure if that includes cable weight.
> G502, G602 or others?
> Is wireless acceptable for gaming?
> Would prefer low lag and accurate sensor.*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> _Fingertip with some claw_
> What's your sensitivity?
> _800dpi_
> What's your maximum budget?
> _$75_
> Do you want additional buttons?
> _At least forward/back_
> What games do you play?
> _Lots of different kinds, but the only reason I want a new mouse is for FPS games._
> Do you mind about prediction?
> _Yes, I mind._
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Priority #1 for me is comfort. #2 reliability #3 non-**** sensor #4 weight
> Hand is 18.75cm long.
> 
> *G502*: The weight drives me away.
> *G402*: The souped up gyroscopic sensor makes me suspicious. I'm unwilling to pay that much for a G100 with a gyroscope.
> *G100*: Not enough buttons and would really like a better sensor.
> *Roccat KPM*: Looks amazing but has polling issues and button lag along with non-existent support.
> *FK1*: Has the mouse wheel and feet issues. I dislike having to do returns and I don't want to take a chance on receiving a quality product.
> *Rival*: My wife already has this and it makes my hand cramp up, not sure why. I also don't want to deal with legendary Steel Series "reliability".
> *Corsair M45*: Looks like it has questionable button placement and overall lack of comfort, looks too wide as well. However if the width isn't an issue, I can learn to live with the side buttons and potentially have a great mouse. It also helps that this thing is on sale for $39.99 on newegg right now!
> *Avior 7000*: I just see random negative things about this, buttons going out or mouse non functional with no support from Mionix. No direct line, have to use email for customer support. I also see a lot of complaints about comfort being an issue with side buttons, and comfort is a huge priority for me. I know build quality is supposed to be great but I'm a little leery. It doesn't help that the cost of this mouse is quite high and I can't find it locally to try out. If someone put a gun to my head and told me to buy a mouse right now, I suppose I would buy this.
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've really tried to do my research here. I have spent quite a few hours reading this forum. It seems that EVERY other site on the internet is clueless when it comes to meeces. I've even considered a Naos 7000 in combination with an attempt to switch to a palm grip, but I still want to _not suck_ in FPS games. I feel like this may not be possible. I also feel like there aren't many great options out there for the 3310 and no other sensor comes close.


Roccat Kone Pure Optical is on sale on amazon for $39.99 and doesn't have button lag OR polling rate issues. (you just have to download the earlier firmware from their site) Their support is also very very good, not sure where you read of support issues. The only trade of is that you get the 3090 sensor which is the same as the 3310 but higher LOD and less flexibility.


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Of the ones you listed, I chose the Corsair M45. After I gave it a proper chance, I actually liked its shape and performance whereas my initial impressions were suspicious. I turned down the G502 for the same reason you did. I didn't try the Avior 7000, but I tried the Naos 7000--very comfortable, but palm-grip isn't my style and forcing fingertip or claw didn't work out in the week I tested it. If I want lackadaisical comfort, I can always use my Logitech M570 trackball wireless--**** that thing is bliss. I digress. No experience with any of the Steelseries mice.
> 
> My local retailers didn't stock the Corsair M45, but I tried the M65 just to get an idea about its shape before I pulled the trigger on the M45 through Amazon for the $39.99 price. Regarding the button placement, I find them just fine. The forward/back buttons are no problem for me, they actuate great, look slick, and not far from my fingers. Clicks are good. Feet might be a bit small, but no friction/mashing on my SS QCK mouse pad. DPI buttons are fine, but I don't switch that often. Mouse scroll feels high quality, clicks alright, scrolls quietly--make sure yours doesn't have a rattle because the M65 I initially bought had a rattle only when scrolling up. My current M45's scroll wheel is perfect.
> 
> I moved from a finger-tip/claw grip on a CM Storm Spawn to the Corsair M45. After removing all the weights, the M45 feels close to weight to the Spawn; but I don't have the numbers handy. For the value, it's hard to beat getting a mouse for under $50 and getting a 3310 sensor too. I'm certain once you get used to the new shape and practice with it in FPS games, you'll feel right at home.
> 
> EDIT: For reference, my hand length is about 17 cm


Thanks brother, that's just what I needed to push me in the right direction. It's definitely worth a shot for the money.


----------



## procrastin

Hello, New poster here! I'm coming from an old style MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 that I love the design of but has developed button issues. Ideally I'd like something thats similarly large and comfortable.

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *400 DPI! But I crank my in-game sensitivity way up in every game.*
What's your maximum budget? *Cheaper is better, something $60 or less ideally.*
Do you want additional buttons? *Additional buttons I can take or leave.*
What games do you play? *Anything and everything, but I definitely play a lot of competitive fps games.*
Do you mind about prediction? *I do not want mouse prediction.*
Other relevant information: I *love the body shape of the Intellimouse Explorer. I play palm style and want a comfortable mouse. I want something that works well and lasts. I'm right handed, I prefer corded mice and no mouseware/optional mouseware, or at the very least mouseware that works reasonably well and doesn't eat tons of resources.

I'm also considering the Corsair M45 but I'm wondering if the optical sensor would have an issue with the white lettering on my black mousepad (and I'm scared of the shape!).*


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *procrastin*
> 
> Hello, New poster here! I'm coming from an old style MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 that I love the design of but has developed button issues. Ideally I'd like something thats similarly large and comfortable.
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *400 DPI! But I crank my in-game sensitivity way up in every game.*
> What's your maximum budget? *Cheaper is better, something $60 or less ideally.*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Additional buttons I can take or leave.*
> What games do you play? *Anything and everything, but I definitely play a lot of competitive fps games.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I do not want mouse prediction.*
> Other relevant information: I *love the body shape of the Intellimouse Explorer. I play palm style and want a comfortable mouse. I want something that works well and lasts. I'm right handed, I prefer corded mice and no mouseware/optional mouseware, or at the very least mouseware that works reasonably well and doesn't eat tons of resources.
> 
> I'm also considering the Corsair M45 but I'm wondering if the optical sensor would have an issue with the white lettering on my black mousepad (and I'm scared of the shape!).*


I wouldn't recommend the M45 for you since you enjoy palming the mouse. It's not really a great shape for such a thing, although I suppose it would work for some with smaller hands. What size are your hands?
Because of your past experience with the MLT-04 sensor, you're most likely going to want to stick to a mouse that has the 3310 sensor. This is the closest modern-day equivalent to the feeling an MLT-04 equipped mouse gives. Be aware that all 3310 equipped mice have smoothing. All of them. There are only a couple palm-able mice with the 3310. The Steel Series Rival and the Mionix Naos 7000. There are dedicated threads for each in this forum.

Since you specify that you want a product that will last, that probably leaves you only with the Naos 7000.
If you're OK with heavy mice, you might consider a Logitech G502. It has a great sensor that is exclusive to the mouse, but _very_ many find the G502 much too heavy or the button placement terrible, or both. There is also the G402. It is on the heavier side, but not as bad as the 502. The shape is narrower and quite different than the 502, with most people agreeing the ergonomics are better than its more expensive sibling. The downside here is it uses the same sensor as the G100, a $20 mouse, and then it beefs it up with a gyroscope for when the sensor fails at higher speeds. Some people have no problem with this implementation, and say it works fine. Others are convinced that this gyroscope is actually Satan, electronically incarnate.

The upside to the Logitech and Rival mice are that they should be available for you to try locally, and you can return them if you don't like your trial evaluation.

If you were willing to change your grip style, a variety of other options would open up.
Whatever you end up trying, keep in mind that any mouse is going to feel substantially different, as you are coming from the only sensor ever without any sort of post processing. Just because it feels different does not mean that it will be less accurate. Give a modern mouse a chance.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *procrastin*
> 
> Hello, New poster here! I'm coming from an old style MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 that I love the design of but has developed button issues. Ideally I'd like something thats similarly large and comfortable.
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *400 DPI! But I crank my in-game sensitivity way up in every game.*
> What's your maximum budget? *Cheaper is better, something $60 or less ideally.*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Additional buttons I can take or leave.*
> What games do you play? *Anything and everything, but I definitely play a lot of competitive fps games.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I do not want mouse prediction.*
> Other relevant information: I *love the body shape of the Intellimouse Explorer. I play palm style and want a comfortable mouse. I want something that works well and lasts. I'm right handed, I prefer corded mice and no mouseware/optional mouseware, or at the very least mouseware that works reasonably well and doesn't eat tons of resources.
> 
> I'm also considering the Corsair M45 but I'm wondering if the optical sensor would have an issue with the white lettering on my black mousepad (and I'm scared of the shape!).*


I echo what jesh462 said. The Mionix Naos 7000 and SteelSeries Rival are excellent options for what you're looking for. I only have experience with the Naos 7000, but the Rival probably matches the shape you're looking for if you prefer the Intellimouse design. If you want the ring and pinky rest, then the Naos 7000 would be amazing for you. Larger hands + palm grip would definitely enjoy it. The software won't suck away resources, but they are probably good to install so you can set all your settings. I think the Naos 7000 has on-board memory, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## dunnoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - *Fingertip. I only move my fingers and wrist.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> - *Logitech setpoint at 1000dpi, csgo at 4.95(raw input)*
> What's your maximum budget?
> - *None*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - *Not necessary*
> What games do you play?
> - *FPS (Battlefield 3/4/hardline, csgo, etc)*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - *No idea what's that. Currently using Logitech G5 gaming mouse, not sure if it has prediction.*
> Other relevant information:
> - *I am using Logitech G5 gaming mouse for 6/7 years with 4 x 1.7g weights. I think it is around 134g with the weights included, not sure if that includes cable weight.
> G502, G602 or others?
> Is wireless acceptable for gaming?
> Would prefer low lag and accurate sensor.*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> G502 no doubt, unless you want something lighter than 121g


How is FK1 compared to G502? I would prefer something lighter and more suitable for fingertip user.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> How is FK1 compared to G502? I would prefer something lighter and more suitable for fingertip user.


Yes its a good mouse but generally lacks features and potential quality issues. Some places it is considered the best mouse ever.


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> How is FK1 compared to G502? I would prefer something lighter and more suitable for fingertip user.


FK1
Pros: Well placed buttons, great shape for finger or claw grip, no drivers, cord not stiff, light weight, supposedly the least processed 3310 sensor signal.
Cons: Stiff switches, mouse wheel quality issues, mouse feet issues, limited c/dpi settings, ugly, bugs with setting changes causing mouse to stop responding, no support for any issues.

And I would advise against wireless for any gaming mouse.

G502
Pros: Sensor
Cons: Ridiculously heavy, bad button placement for the majority of people, impossible for human hands to hold comfortably. This mouse is poop. Also only palm grip.


----------



## TONSCHUH

I love the Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1.

I suits games like D3 and BF4 very well.


----------



## SirAdeno

Hi, guys. I've posted here on this thread before and have gotten suggestions, but after much afterthought and a lot more canvassing, I still haven't decided on which mouse to get (sorry). I also can't just try out stuff and return it if I didn't like it in our country (dumb right?), so I really need to get it right the first time so wouldn't be spending too much money to find a mouse that I would use until it breaks.

I'm exclusively a fingertip grip with 19 cm hands. High sens. These are the mice I can get from here right now along with price in USD. I've also narrowed them down to what I think can be good for fingertip. Other suggestions are welcome, but pretty much, the only mice in here are Steelseries and Razer. Roccat, Corsair, etc. products are pretty hard to find. Zowie is nonexistent. Even Logitech is hard to find.

*Roccat Kone Pure Optical (~67$)*

This is the mouse I'm leaning more towards. I heard good things about Roccat and their build quality. Seems to be fingertip grippable, too.

Downside is it isn't the Military one. I haven't found a Military yet, but I think it's priced almost the same? So this is a 3090 mouse.

*Mionix Avior 7000 (~78$)*

The Avior looks very sleek to me, aesthetically. And it has the 3310. Ambidextrous (plus points for fingertip, I think?) and one of the best build quality (from what I hear).

That thing is not cheap. I don't know if getting one is worth it considering my other choices.

*CM Storm Alcor (~56$)*

I don't know much about this mouse. I don't even know if it's compatible to fingertip.

*Corsair Raptor M45 (~51$)*

3310, yo. Though this thing looks wide and weird, I think it's for fingertip? Maybe.

I heard bad stuff about the mouse feet and build quality. Dunno.

So.. That's it. Thanks in advance.


----------



## procrastin

Thanks *jesh462* & *DTrinh09*.








I had overlooked the Naos 7000 in my quest to find something shaped like the Intellimouse. I had looked long and hard at the Steelseries Rival but it appears to me that the build quality isn't made to last, conversely the Naos looks to be an excellent quality large mouse so I'm going to give it a shot.


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *procrastin*
> 
> Thanks *jesh462* & *DTrinh09*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had overlooked the Naos 7000 in my quest to find something shaped like the Intellimouse. I had looked long and hard at the Steelseries Rival but it appears to me that the build quality isn't made to last, conversely the Naos looks to be an excellent quality large mouse so I'm going to give it a shot.


Awesome, let the forums know how you like it!


----------



## xVes

So I've posted here before looking for suggestions for a mouse. I've bounced around between the Mionix Avior 7000 (currently using) and the Logitech G502. Ultimately I just found the G502 too heavy for my liking despite how comfortable it was to use. The Avior is actually a great mouse, had no issues whatsoever, arguably one of the best sensors in the market but just had awful software. However recently it's started double clicking on single clicks and even noticed it ghost clicking at times. It's going to be RMA'ed eventually but as a mouse enthusiast I like trying out different ones to see what's out there. Basically what I'm looking for is a good sensor, can be ambidex or not and able to be either claw or finger tip gripped. Hell if anything out there matches the Avior's weight and the G502's shape I'd take that. Price isn't really an issue either so just list them out and I'll check them out.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Hi, guys. I've posted here on this thread before and have gotten suggestions, but after much afterthought and a lot more canvassing, I still haven't decided on which mouse to get (sorry). I also can't just try out stuff and return it if I didn't like it in our country (dumb right?), so I really need to get it right the first time so wouldn't be spending too much money to find a mouse that I would use until it breaks.
> 
> I'm exclusively a fingertip grip with 19 cm hands. High sens. These are the mice I can get from here right now along with price in USD. I've also narrowed them down to what I think can be good for fingertip. Other suggestions are welcome, but pretty much, the only mice in here are Steelseries and Razer. Roccat, Corsair, etc. products are pretty hard to find. Zowie is nonexistent. Even Logitech is hard to find.
> 
> *Roccat Kone Pure Optical (~67$)*
> 
> This is the mouse I'm leaning more towards. I heard good things about Roccat and their build quality. Seems to be fingertip grippable, too.
> 
> Downside is it isn't the Military one. I haven't found a Military yet, but I think it's priced almost the same? So this is a 3090 mouse.
> 
> *Mionix Avior 7000 (~78$)*
> 
> The Avior looks very sleek to me, aesthetically. And it has the 3310. Ambidextrous (plus points for fingertip, I think?) and one of the best build quality (from what I hear).
> 
> That thing is not cheap. I don't know if getting one is worth it considering my other choices.
> 
> *CM Storm Alcor (~56$)*
> 
> I don't know much about this mouse. I don't even know if it's compatible to fingertip.
> 
> *Corsair Raptor M45 (~51$)*
> 
> 3310, yo. Though this thing looks wide and weird, I think it's for fingertip? Maybe.
> 
> I heard bad stuff about the mouse feet and build quality. Dunno.
> 
> So.. That's it. Thanks in advance.


Kone Pure Optical is on sale on Amazon $39.99


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirAdeno*
> 
> Hi, guys. I've posted here on this thread before and have gotten suggestions, but after much afterthought and a lot more canvassing, I still haven't decided on which mouse to get (sorry). I also can't just try out stuff and return it if I didn't like it in our country (dumb right?), so I really need to get it right the first time so wouldn't be spending too much money to find a mouse that I would use until it breaks.
> 
> I'm exclusively a fingertip grip with 19 cm hands. High sens. These are the mice I can get from here right now along with price in USD. I've also narrowed them down to what I think can be good for fingertip. Other suggestions are welcome, but pretty much, the only mice in here are Steelseries and Razer. Roccat, Corsair, etc. products are pretty hard to find. Zowie is nonexistent. Even Logitech is hard to find.
> 
> *Roccat Kone Pure Optical (~67$)*
> 
> This is the mouse I'm leaning more towards. I heard good things about Roccat and their build quality. Seems to be fingertip grippable, too.
> 
> Downside is it isn't the Military one. I haven't found a Military yet, but I think it's priced almost the same? So this is a 3090 mouse.
> 
> *Mionix Avior 7000 (~78$)*
> 
> The Avior looks very sleek to me, aesthetically. And it has the 3310. Ambidextrous (plus points for fingertip, I think?) and one of the best build quality (from what I hear).
> 
> That thing is not cheap. I don't know if getting one is worth it considering my other choices.
> 
> *CM Storm Alcor (~56$)*
> 
> I don't know much about this mouse. I don't even know if it's compatible to fingertip.
> 
> *Corsair Raptor M45 (~51$)*
> 
> 3310, yo. Though this thing looks wide and weird, I think it's for fingertip? Maybe.
> 
> I heard bad stuff about the mouse feet and build quality. Dunno.
> 
> So.. That's it. Thanks in advance.


I've only experience with the Roccat Kone Pure (not optical version, but similar shape) and the Corsair Raptor M45 (current mouse). My hands are smaller than yours, so take this into account (~17 cm). The Roccat is a lot smaller than the M45 and when I tried it, it felt like a finger-tip natural mouse. If you want the 3310 sensor instead of 3090, get the Military edition. My testing of the Roccat only went so far as its shape, which I ultimately did not prefer over the Corsair M45. However, *I preferred the M45's wider shape for claw-gripping*. I would not use it for finger-tip as the wideness makes it more uncomfortable to me. It may be okay with larger hands. The Roccat is a lot narrower and lighter than than the M45. Because you really want finger-tip, I would recommend the Roccat (optical or military) for you. I used to finger-tip a CM Storm Spawn mouse but I wanted claw-grip and something wider.


----------



## MasterBash

Which mouse feet do you guys prefer between hyperglides and hotline? Is there any other brands better than those 2?


----------



## CthulhuTactical

Hi

I'm looking for a new mouse. I'm a palm gripper mostly, with occasional use of claw grip. Deathadder and G400 were too big for me. My hands are small, XS size in men's gloves, or about 7"-7"1/4 inch in length[18 cm]. I'm going to spend $80. I play FPS games mostly, on cloth pad.


----------



## ThornTwist

Hi guys.

I know I already asked about the question I am going to ask but I forgot what the answer was so I'm asking again with possible differences in the question.

I usually play games on a Razer Naga Hex with a Nostomo Keypad. I use a palm grip pretty much entirely because I have small hands (which makes reaching some buttons on some keypads difficult) and I never got used to other grips. I like lots of buttons on my mouse and keypad. The mouse is usually action and/or weapon buttons while keypad is primarily for menu options and configuration and navigation. I play RPGs mostly and am really looking forward to Dragon Age Inquisition; in fact, I am building quite the PC and this is just one thing I have to take care of. I also really like the idea of a software program that I can do macros on but more importantly some sort of interface to set keypresses for different things since I pretty much never use the default configuration for games. What I'm looking for is for my mouse, keypad and keyboard to all be the same brand (and possibly same series) and be quality products that are reliable. I'm setting the price limit rather high this time for all three items at $400. Keyboard is still important because I type a lot online and do papers occasionally. I would be willing to spend $450 if all criteria are met and the stuff is the best of the best so to speak. I don't know what kind of cherry switches I would like because I've only ever tried blue. I don't necessarily need a noise cue but it wouldn't hurt I suppose. I'm also looking for something that's kind of cool and trendy but I don't know if I want to go with Razer this time.

I apologise in advance for making such a crazy request, but I know you guys know this stuff way better than I do.

Thanks for your input,

TT


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CthulhuTactical*
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse. I'm a palm gripper mostly, with occasional use of claw grip. Deathadder and G400 were too big for me. My hands are small, XS size in men's gloves, or about 7"-7"1/4 inch in length[18 cm]. I'm going to spend $80. I play FPS games mostly, on cloth pad.


Zowie EC2 eVo. I prefer the black rubber finish but the Cooller edition isn't bad.


----------



## mitavreb

If I may suggest for people looking for a gaming mouse to also post the measurement of the width of their palm. Just an example I bought the G502 and now I'm selling it. The mouse is too narrow that only half my palm is on the mouse. My hand(from tip of mid finger to wrist is 7.5 in and palm width is 3.52 in).

Look at the measurement or dimensions of the mouse you're considering.


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> ...
> 
> What I'm looking for is for my mouse, keypad and keyboard to all be the same brand (and possibly same series) and be quality products that are reliable
> 
> ...


Well that will not work out no matter how much money you want to spend. Binding yourself to a single manufacturer for style reasons will not produce better results - most of the times it won't even look good. Let alone speaking for the performance they do well. It 's like asking Ferrari to make Motorbikes or even Clothing (not like they're likely to rebrand such stuff selling their good name *cought*)

You'll probably the best fit with just sticking to Razer again. If you want to look for an religious cult that wants to have all of the same from one company for whatever reason ...









Corsair

Their Build-Quality is above that of Razer and might still fit your taste in terms of features at least. The only downside is there 's no Keypad. But like I said - there 's very few companies offering a sperate Keypad in addition to a somewhat good Mouse and Keyboard.


Corsair M95 - Mouse
Corsair K95 - Keyboard

Logitech

Well their Build-Quality varies - but seems to be rather on the good side recently and it 's the only Manufacturer offering a seperate Keypad.


Logitech G502 - Mouse if you can live with the weight it 's their top end even if their other mice have a few buttons more or aimed specificly at MMO this one is still the best overall package if the weight and shape doesn't put you off. Implementing the best sensor on the mouse market (only in the G502)
Logitech G13 - Keypad
Logitech G710 - Keyboard to make the package complete since it uses Cherry MX Blue (at least) and fits the style of the Keypad
Well nothing else to be said. You're greatly limiting yourself especially if you're looking for the perfect, personal fit in terms of performance and taste. It's easier surely but well ...


----------



## metal571

I'd say M45 for Corsair and that's about it for their mice line.


----------



## artiq

I'm a fingertip user with rather high sensitivity and bought Steelseries Rival half a year ago but have noticed that's is really fatiguing to use for long hours. I think it's too heavy or something or my hand just doesn't fit the mouse.

Now I'm looking for a smaller mouse that works better for a fingertip user. After some research I've landed on either the Corsair M45 or Razer Taipan. There seem to be a strong dislike for Taipan because of its sensor acceleration and **** but is that noticable for a high sensitivity user that plays Dota 2? I don't play FPS and I never lift my mouse ever. What I don't like with the M45 is that its sides seem to wear quite quickly.


----------



## ThornTwist

Thanks for your help. What if I said screw the one brand thing? I think I would getter better stuff then right?

Sorry I don't mean to sound unappreciative for the advice you gave but you made it seem like a one brand thing was a bad idea, so at this point I'm willing to compromise that point. also the Logitech keypad looks to be hard to press some of the buttons since I have small hands; is there anything at all that I can get that would be different?

Edit: Oh yeah and I actually prefer my mouse to be heavy; I used to have a Mad Cats Rat 5. I didn't really like it because it seemed the thumb buttons were just weird.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *artiq*
> 
> I'm a fingertip user with rather high sensitivity and bought Steelseries Rival half a year ago but have noticed that's is really fatiguing to use for long hours. I think it's too heavy or something or my hand just doesn't fit the mouse.
> 
> Now I'm looking for a smaller mouse that works better for a fingertip user. After some research I've landed on either the Corsair M45 or Razer Taipan. There seem to be a strong dislike for Taipan because of its sensor acceleration and **** but is that noticable for a high sensitivity user that plays Dota 2? I don't play FPS and I never lift my mouse ever. What I don't like with the M45 is that its sides seem to wear quite quickly.


I personally wouldn't recommend the M45 for fingertip use unless you've got large hands. I'm on the smaller/medium side and would only use my M45 as claw-grip most of the time. I don't have experience with the Taipan, but I do with the Roccat Kone Pure. I think the Military edition would fit what you're looking for (smaller + fingertip + light + probably won't need to lift off if you're a high sensitivity user).


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *artiq*
> 
> I'm a fingertip user with rather high sensitivity and bought Steelseries Rival half a year ago but have noticed that's is really fatiguing to use for long hours. I think it's too heavy or something or my hand just doesn't fit the mouse.
> 
> Now I'm looking for a smaller mouse that works better for a fingertip user. After some research I've landed on either the Corsair M45 or Razer Taipan. There seem to be a strong dislike for Taipan because of its sensor acceleration and **** but is that noticable for a high sensitivity user that plays Dota 2? I don't play FPS and I never lift my mouse ever. What I don't like with the M45 is that its sides seem to wear quite quickly.


I second DTrinh09. I'm exactly the same way you are. My wife has a Rival and it definitely hurts my hand after 30-60 minutes of serious use. I wanted something more comfortable for my fingertip grip and just got my Kone Pure Military in the mail yesterday. It is wonderfully sculpted for a fingertip grip! I played for about four hours last night with no fatigue and the tracking is amazing.


----------



## e4stw00t

If you are right handed go for the Kone Pure Military - it's light weight and small. Great for fingertip to clawgrip!


----------



## Noismo

Roccat Kone Pure Military is perfect mouse for fingertip grip, shape is pure awesomness, feels almost like ambidextrous mouse in the best way.


----------



## Nova.

Can anyone recommend a good mousepad? I have been looking at the the Hayate and Hien from Artisan but cannot decide on which one to get. Are there any other alternatives out there as my current one has worn down?


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nova.*
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good mousepad? I have been looking at the the Hayate and Hien from Artisan but cannot decide on which one to get. Are there any other alternatives out there as my current one has worn down?


Take a look at the Roccat Hiro 3D. It's made from silicone. I just got mine in on Saturday. It seems like it could outlast the Artisan pads and offer similar levels of performance.


----------



## Sigtyr

Hi everyone, I am looking to replace my Sensei MLG edition for an optical mouse (3310 sensor). The mouse I used before the Sensei was a Logitech G5 (the silver/copper version) and I used a palm grip for years. When I switched to the Sensei 2 years ago, it took me awhile to adjust to the Sensei's ambidextrous shape but after getting used to it I use now a hybrid between a claw and palm grip (palm rests more on the base of the mouse and fingers are arched). I feel that I could go back to a palm grip if the new mouse is an ergonomic right hand mouse, but I prefer a shape similar to the Sensei since I am used to it now. Budget is $80-$100 and my choices have dwindled down to the Avior/Noas 7000, FK1, and the Roccat Kone Pure Military. The G502 was one of my first choices but the issues with the feet peeling off and needing to buy additional aftermarket feet is a turn off, unless someone can convince me otherwise. Competitively I play mostly FPS but I wouldn't mind if the mouse could function well in other types of games like MOBAs. My mousepad is an Artisan Hayate Mid if that affects the choice of mouse.


----------



## Trull

Don't get fooled by the '3310 is best, f. the rest' mentality, there are plenty of other good sensors. I'm surprised you don't like the Sensei, with the latest firmware it should be solid, at least the original Sensei, don't know if the MLG version is any different.

But anyway, all I ever recommend to people these days is the G100s.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sigtyr*
> 
> Hi everyone, I am looking to replace my Sensei MLG edition for an optical mouse (3310 sensor). The mouse I used before the Sensei was a Logitech G5 (the silver/copper version) and I used a palm grip for years. When I switched to the Sensei 2 years ago, it took me awhile to adjust to the Sensei's ambidextrous shape but after getting used to it I use now a hybrid between a claw and palm grip (palm rests more on the base of the mouse and fingers are arched). I feel that I could go back to a palm grip if the new mouse is an ergonomic right hand mouse, but I prefer a shape similar to the Sensei since I am used to it now. Budget is $80-$100 and my choices have dwindled down to the Avior/Noas 7000, FK1, and the Roccat Kone Pure Military. The G502 was one of my first choices but the issues with the feet peeling off and needing to buy additional aftermarket feet is a turn off, unless someone can convince me otherwise. Competitively I play mostly FPS but I wouldn't mind if the mouse could function well in other types of games like MOBAs. My mousepad is an Artisan Hayate Mid if that affects the choice of mouse.


That's just a claw grip, not a hybrid. Any of the mice you listed would work, but the 502 is a bit on the heavy side so not necessarily ideal for FPS unless you have a higher sensitivity. The Naos will be a pain if you lift a lot but is comfortable with claw and palm grips alike. The Avior will annoy you with its side buttons unless you are a more arched claw or a fingertip, the latter being myself. The FK1 should work fine with claw but I'm not sure it's large enough for palm. And the KPM should work great for claw but they are currently working on a fix for the polling rate being inconsistent although @DivineDark thinks it's actually not as bad as people say it is in real-world feel. Good job getting off the Sensei, I had one and couldn't stand it. In my personal opinion, laser mice have no place in any kind of competitive FPS gaming, but lots of top teams use them anyway, likely due to sponsorship or just the shape. That has been discussed ad infinitum on this forum already though.


----------



## twelvie

Has anyone bought a cheap ($25) intellimouse 3.0 off ebay from Hong Kong or some such?

I'm assuming they're fake but just how much different they are to the originals I'm curious.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twelvie*
> 
> Has anyone bought a cheap ($25) intellimouse 3.0 off ebay from Hong Kong or some such?
> 
> I'm assuming they're fake but just how much different they are to the originals I'm curious.


Hmmm, I don't know that there are fake IE 3.0's, I only know about fake WMO's. $25 seems like a normal price, it's definitely not the cheapest I've seen.

But anyway, if it's fake then it's crap, simple as that.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Good job getting off the Sensei, I had one and couldn't stand it. In my personal opinion, laser mice have no place in any kind of competitive FPS gaming, but lots of top teams use them anyway, likely due to sponsorship or just the shape. That has been discussed ad infinitum on this forum already though.


Yes, and it's also been concluded that laser is actually fine under the right firmware. Both Skylit and r0ach have said it.


----------



## metal571

When? All he said was laser varies a lot more unit to unit, some may have less inconsistent acceleration than others. And then there is, on top of that, surface it is used on so laser experiences can vary widely. The only advantage they really have is responsiveness.


----------



## sabonis

Hey guys could you kindly help me decide on a mouse.

Relevant information:
First of all my hand is very small. Bottom of palm to tip of middle finger is 6.5 inches. So please don't suggest big mice. Right now I'm using G9x for the last 2 years or so and I'm not comfortable. I think the height at the back of the mouse is making it uncomfortable for me. In the past I have used and loved Logitech G3 and Logitech MX310.

1. What's your grip style?
Usually Palm but sometimes Claw as well.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Actually I do not have an answer for this.

3. What's your maximum budget?
80 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I want back-forward buttons. DPI changing buttons are nice but not necessary.

5. What games do you play?
Every genre but all of them casually.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I do not care much about prediction, though it would be nice if I'm able to disable it. But not that important

Right now I'm looking at Razer Taipan and Roccat Savu. I'm open to new suggestions or your preference between those 2 choices. My friends told me to buy Deathadder but once upon a time I have tried it at my friends' and it's buttons didn't give me the right feeling. Also it's a rather larger mouse, I'm not sure if it will fit my hand.

Thank you in advance


----------



## metal571

I think the Kone Pure Military might also suit well. Don't quote me on that but I think a lot of guys in here are saying it's one of the best claw mice out there. Taipan is a laser, and doesn't give you much room on the sides. Plus, Razer reliability...


----------



## sabonis

I see that laser mice are getting some hate but I don't know the reason why. What kind of tracking problem do they cause? I don't think a casual gamer would see the difference. and what about Razer's reliability?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> I see that laser mice are getting some hate but I don't know the reason why. What kind of tracking problem do they cause? I don't think a casual gamer would see the difference. and what about Razer's reliability?


Where's that Mionix video?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> I see that laser mice are getting some hate but I don't know the reason why. What kind of tracking problem do they cause? I don't think a casual gamer would see the difference. and what about Razer's reliability?


Laser based optical mice have inconsistent acceleration (~3-5 % depending on surface afaik). That's the reason people say it's inferior to (infrared) led based optical mice. I know people who did very well with a G500 for example (including myself), but that's that. Nowadays I'm using a G502 because I like it more than the G500. That has not much to do with tracking, however.


----------



## Natskyge

[*] What's your grip style? Palm
[*] What's your sensitivity? 1800 dpi
[*] What's your maximum budget? 50-70
[*] Do you want additional buttons? Two thumb buttons
[*] What games do you play? Battlefield 4
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes i want none of that bs
[*] Other relevant information: i have Been looking at the razer deathadder, cm storm mizar and rog gladius
Input anything else you want. I want it to be light


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? Palm
> [*] What's your sensitivity? 1800 dpi
> [*] What's your maximum budget? 50-70
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? Two thumb buttons
> [*] What games do you play? Battlefield 4
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes i want none of that bs
> [*] Other relevant information: i have Been looking at the razer deathadder, cm storm mizar and rog gladius
> Input anything else you want. I want it to be light


DA,Naos 7000, or Rival for palm. DA being the least in build quality


----------



## sabonis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Laser based optical mice have inconsistent acceleration (~3-5 % depending on surface afaik). That's the reason people say it's inferior to (infrared) led based optical mice. I know people who did very well with a G500 for example (including myself), but that's that. Nowadays I'm using a G502 because I like it more than the G500. That has not much to do with tracking, however.


thank you for the explanation.
Any suggestions for me, according to the features I have provided above?


----------



## Sigtyr

Thanks to @Trulland @metal571 for your responses! @Trull My experience with the Sensei MLG was disappointing these past 2 years, with the double-clicking issues with the left mouse button, the hardware acceleration even after installing the MarkC fix, and the constant "Initialization of Steelseries Engine failed" messages popping up every few days got annoying real quick







. I lived with it for the past 2 years but now I am ready to move on to an optical mouse, and the 3310 mice were the ones I researched the most about these past few days.

@metal571 Thank you for your detailed advice, it helped me greatly decide on what 3310 mouse to purchase. I just ordered the KPM Naval Storm edition just now from Amazon and I am excited for it to arrive (just tried their free trial of Amazon Prime 2-Day shipping). I was very close to picking the FK1, but after reading about their customer service and quality control issues such as the scroll wheel being iffy, that turned me off. It's funny because the KPM was last in my choices of mice before stumbling on this thread. The Avior 7000 was my first choice, but I think I would be annoyed with the side buttons using a claw grip and I do lift my mouse while playing so the Noas 7000 was out of the picture. Hopefully that polling issue with the KPM will be addressed and after reading how Roccat's reps are responsive and are working to fix it, the KPM was the one to choose.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> DA,Naos 7000, or Rival for palm. DA being the least in build quality


Thanks for the help but are you sure the naos is light. Also what about the cm storm mizar?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Thanks for the help but are you sure the naos is light. Also what about the cm storm mizar?


Mizar is laser. Naos is about the same as the Avior last I checked, which is about 100g.


----------



## sabonis

hey guys I know I'm upping this very soon but need to decide on a mouse in the next 48 hours. Can I get some more advice?

Thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> Hey guys could you kindly help me decide on a mouse.
> 
> Relevant information:
> First of all my hand is very small. Bottom of palm to tip of middle finger is 6.5 inches. So please don't suggest big mice. Right now I'm using G9x for the last 2 years or so and I'm not comfortable. I think the height at the back of the mouse is making it uncomfortable for me. In the past I have used and loved Logitech G3 and Logitech MX310.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Usually Palm but sometimes Claw as well.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Actually I do not have an answer for this.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 80 USD
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I want back-forward buttons. DPI changing buttons are nice but not necessary.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Every genre but all of them casually.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I do not care much about prediction, though it would be nice if I'm able to disable it. But not that important
> 
> Right now I'm looking at Razer Taipan and Roccat Savu. I'm open to new suggestions or your preference between those 2 choices. My friends told me to buy Deathadder but once upon a time I have tried it at my friends' and it's buttons didn't give me the right feeling. Also it's a rather larger mouse, I'm not sure if it will fit my hand.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> hey guys I know I'm upping this very soon but need to decide on a mouse in the next 48 hours. Can I get some more advice?
> 
> Thanks


Savu is a nice one for small hands. I have a feeling that you will palm and fingertip it kinda comfortably. Even with my hands (around 18 cm\7 inches) I can hybrid-grip (palm\fingertip) with ease. Don't know about Taipan though.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> hey guys I know I'm upping this very soon but need to decide on a mouse in the next 48 hours. Can I get some more advice?
> 
> Thanks


The Logitech G100s would fit the bill since you liked the Logitech G3 and MX310, but it lacks the forward/back side buttons. The Mionix Avior 7000 is another ambi shape mouse with side buttons on both sides that's been popular around here.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabonis*
> 
> hey guys I know I'm upping this very soon but need to decide on a mouse in the next 48 hours. Can I get some more advice?
> 
> Thanks


Savu's shape is something you'll like or hate. Roccat KPM is a safer bet, even though it's very similar. At least from experience I prefered Kone Pure over Savu. However, Savu is a good mouse nontheless.


----------



## Bulkas

Hello, can you help me guys with choosing right mouse







? Here is my info

What's your grip style?
I think it's fingertrip with claw? not sure


What's your sensitivity?
Windows - 7/11
Logitech set point- 800 dpi
Battlefield 4 - 7%
in CS Go it's set to same like in battlefield
Maybe i will set some lower dpi but dunno how much lower, playing currently on that and it's ok.

What's your maximum budget?
No limit, just want to buy a best mouse for me.

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, 2 buttons on the left side like on my mouse Logitech G5

What games do you play?
Battlefield 4 and CS GO mainly.

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

Other relevant information:
I have a mousepad Zowie gt-f speed and i love it, bought it 3 months ago.
My hand size from the end of the finger to the wrist is 20 cm.
I hold my mouse with fingers like 1+2+2(1 left, 2 on top on each button and 2 on the right side of the mouse).
I can change my grip if it's needed and get used to it, I heard that it's good to play palm grip and on low dpi, dunno if it's true.
I was thinking about zowie ec1 evo cl, or FK1 but really not sure what to pick. Maybe other mouses ? I want best mouse for FPS games.


----------



## DivineDark

Going from that mouse to a Zowie mouse is going to be a hard shift. Both the EC and FK are incredible mice, but they're FAR different in shape to the logitech mx/G shapes. You can look at the G402 or G502 (if you don't mind the weight). They'll be similar. The Kone Pure Military is smaller, and will fit your grip well, but it's much smaller.

They're all good, but shape wise, it's really preference. If you're wanting to stay in the same area, you can always look for a G400 (non "s"). Same exact shape with a great sensor.


----------



## hza

Coming from G5 I'd say G502. I used G500, Roccat KPO and 2 or 3 other mice in the last 2 years. I have absolutely no issues with 502 (including heavier weight, scroll wheel and other stuff people complain about).


----------



## Bulkas

G502 seems to be nice but i am afraid of holding it cuz it's not classic shape of the mouse,and it has too many buttons







Will logitech g502 be okay with my mousepad zowie gt-f speed? G502, fk1 and evo ec2 cl has great opinions and really not sure what to pick. I can change my grip but not sure if i should. Is there any "preffered grip" for fps with best controll etc? BTW what grip do i have in your opinon? Is it fingertrip ?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> G502 seems to be nice but i am afraid of holding it cuz it's not classic shape of the mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will logitech g502 be okay with my mousepad zowie gt-f speed? G502, fk1 and evo ec2 cl has great opinions and really not sure what to pick. I can change my grip but not sure if i should. Is there any "preffered grip" for fps with best controll etc? BTW what grip do i have in your opinon? Is it fingertrip ?


There is no such thing as a preferred grip. Just use whatever you think is comfortable. That's the absolute most important thing. It's more important, to some extent, than technology of the mouse. If you aren't comfortable using the best mouse in the world and you'll suck with it.

The G502 is actually not far from the shape of the G5. It's a bit lower, but the concept of the mouse shape follows those lines. Your mouse grip will be fine for every mouse you picked. The KPM and the G mice will feel more similar to what you're used to.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> There is no such thing as a preferred grip. Just use whatever you think is comfortable. That's the absolute most important thing. It's more important, to some extent, than technology of the mouse. If you aren't comfortable using the best mouse in the world and you'll suck with it.
> 
> The G502 is actually not far from the shape of the G5. It's a bit lower, but the concept of the mouse shape follows those lines. Your mouse grip will be fine for every mouse you picked. The KPM and the G mice will feel more similar to what you're used to.


Ok







So there is no point of changing grip ? I think the best way to see it's go the local store and try it, really want to see that g502 and zowies but don't know if i will find zowie in my city :<. Will 502 be fine with my mousepad zowie gt-f speed?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> Ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there is no point of changing grip ? I think the best way to see it's go the local store and try it, really want to see that g502 and zowies but don't know if i will find zowie in my city :<. Will 502 be fine with my mousepad zowie gt-f speed?


You can test out the G502 and G402 at Best Buy if you're in the states. You'll only be able to get the Zowies off of something like Amazon. The FK1 is similar in shape to the Steelseries Sensei. The Deathadder will have the same basic shape as the EC1. You can try out those mice locally and see if you like the shape, then you can kind of go off of that impression to determine what the Zowies will feel like.

And the G502 will work like a champ on the G-TF.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> You can test out the G502 and G402 at Best Buy if you're in the states. You'll only be able to get the Zowies off of something like Amazon. The FK1 is similar in shape to the Steelseries Sensei. The Deathadder will have the same basic shape as the EC1. You can try out those mice locally and see if you like the shape, then you can kind of go off of that impression to determine what the Zowies will feel like.
> 
> And the G502 will work like a champ on the G-TF.


I thank you so much ! I will try it out and see if i like it. And will try g502 for sure If i want only two buttons then g400 is way to go, right ?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> I thank you so much ! I will try it out and see if i like it. And will try g502 for sure If i want only two buttons then g400 is way to go, right ?


The g400 has 5 buttons. It's the exact same mouse as your G5 with different sensor. Like, if you put the G5 and the G400 side by side, it's almost identical. There are a couple differences, but that's about it..


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The g400 has 5 buttons. It's the exact same mouse as your G5 with different sensor. Like, if you put the G5 and the G400 side by side, it's almost identical. There are a couple differences, but that's about it..


Ok thank you, I will let you know when i will try those mouses in local store.


----------



## OkanG

*What's your grip style?*
The famous "hybrid" grip I guess?

*What's your sensitivity?*
Pretty low, it's set to 800dpi on the mouse and something like 2,34 on CS:GO

*What's your maximum budget?*
over 9000

*Do you want additional buttons?*
A couple of side buttons is all I need

*What games do you play?*
I mainly play FPS games.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Hell no

*Other relevant information:*
I'm using a Deathadder 2013 now which is ok, but if there's something out there that is better for me, I'd like to try that







I have HUGE hands, so the deathadder feels a little small, but I haven't come across a mouse that seems big enough for my hand, so I'm pretty used to the feeling. The weight of the Deathadder is fine, but it could be a tad bit heavier. Matte finish is preferred but not a must, and the type of cord doesn't matter. I value being able to turn the lights of the mouse off, or change it to white if it isn't already. Gotta match the colors of the rest of my rig yo!


----------



## metal571

Could give the Rival a shot if you need something big. The Naos 7000 is also wide.


----------



## MyNameIsLars

I recently bought a Razer Naga 2014 but i think the sensor might not be for me and i might need another mouse thats why im making this post for help and guidance. Thing is the Razer Naga is the 3rd mouse i've bought so i have not really tried out many mice so i haven't seen the different definitions like prediciton and tracking and other things. I have pretty limited understanding about mice cause the ones i've bought previously have all been very similiar to the MX518.

1st Attribute

My understanding of words is pretty limited (reading) but i will try to make out the 2 most importants attributes.

I need more buttons cause i'm going to play WoW currently using the Razer Naga but i must say the side buttons on the Naga are pretty nice but the cost from having that seems to be abit too much (i might dislike the sensor).

So the 1st attribute would be precise or many buttons i wouldn't necessarily rate the one above the other that preciseness would be more important than buttons. But with that in mind my first priority would be precision.

_*Precision*_

2nd Attribute

Many buttons so i can actually play WoW, i know you can probably make many different kinds of keybinds on the keyboard and switch between them, i'm not sure this is possibly but it would make more keys within reach using the WSAD for moving. But what im looking for in a mouse is a decent array of buttons on my disposal, so i don't have lots of skills and abilites unbound and making it a mess to click on the skills that are not bound. I really want to have everything bound to a key.

WoD is coming and it's going to be realesed on my birthday

_*Buttons*_

The List:

[1] What's your grip style?

Fingertip and palmgrip but i'm not sure what differs between the two.

[2] What's your sensitivity?

I've used the Logitech MX518 and i got about the middleconfiguration on DPI (i've actually never checked numbers) and on the Naga im using right now i got 1200 DPI, It's abit slow but i tweaked it that way to make it more precise.

[3] What's your maximum budget?

about 120$

[4] Do you want additional buttons?

I'm going to play games like WoW, Starcraft, Some Diablo and might also try other games aswell as a good mice for surfing. So i guess i need a mouse with many buttons, but at the sametime precise and decently comfortable to grip with the hand.

[5] What games do you play?

WoW, Starcraft, Diablo and other games.

[6] Do you mind about prediction?

I'm not quite sure i know what prediction is.

[7] Other relevant information:
(Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc)

Weight: I'm not sure how much weight matters when it comes to the sensor or do you call it tracking? How much weight affects the tracking i'm not that sure about what tracking is, there are some definitions about mice i don't understand i've only heard them a couple of times.

I'm also not sure if laser sensor is my thing cause it's in the Naga, i haven't really tried different laser sensors but from what the naga feels like right now, it's not precise enough.

The cord should not be too stiff so it makes the mouse hard to move. I think that's all. It's like there is something more i should type but i don't know what it is.

That's all folks.


----------



## Caketrees

Looking for a right-handed ergonomic mouse similar to the MX518. Main concerns are that its medium to large in size and is light and doesn't have any acceleration, not bothered about prediction. I've tried the Rival, DA2013, EC1, G400 but none of them quite feel right I always have to re-adjust my grip during usage. The Steelseries Ikari is the closest I've come to having a really good feel but they're hard to find these days, especially an optical one. Is the CM Storm Alcor something worth trying? Would appreciate any sort of recommendations


----------



## MasterBash

Guys, how is the corsair m40/m45 for palm/claw grip? I heard it weighs 90g without cable. It uses the ADNS 3090, correct? I have the G502, Deathadder 2013 which I both love. I am thinking about adding the M40 or M45 to my collection if its any good.

It looks cheap as hell though, but lightweight... I don't like the fact that the cable isnt in the middle for some reason, it looks weird.

Hows the implimentation of the 3090 or 3310 sensor? good? how does it compare to other mice with the same sensor?

Do they use omron switches? How is the button lag and are the buttons stiff or really easy to click?


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caketrees*
> 
> Looking for a right-handed ergonomic mouse similar to the MX518. Main concerns are that its medium to large in size and is light and doesn't have any acceleration, not bothered about prediction. I've tried the Rival, DA2013, EC1, G400 but none of them quite feel right I always have to re-adjust my grip during usage. The Steelseries Ikari is the closest I've come to having a really good feel but they're hard to find these days, especially an optical one. Is the CM Storm Alcor something worth trying? Would appreciate any sort of recommendations


Mionix Naos 7000, perhaps.


----------



## nubki11a

*What's your grip style?*
A kind of hybrid between fingertipgrip and palmgrip:


*What's your sensitivity?*
Around 1150 DPI at 6/11.
*What's your maximum budget?*
Around €50,-
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Just two thumbbuttons and a scroll wheel.
*What games do you play?*
A little bit of everything, mostly FPS, but the only one I'm particularly competitive with is League of Legends.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I do, but my budget isn't that great, so it's fine as long as there isn't a lot of it.
*Other relevant information:*
I don't really mind whether or not the mouse is ambidextrous; I'm right-handed. I need one with an optical sensor, as I will be using it with a QcK Mass. My previous mouse was a Zowie AM which broke unfortunately (started right-clicking randomly when I moved it around). I would like to have a mouse that is a bit bigger than the Zowie AM, I have pretty large hands. Also, the button activation force of the Zowie AM was a bit too high for me because it would sometimes give me pain in my fingers, I don't like mice which nearly click when you rest your finger on the button though.
Any recommendations are appreciated


----------



## metal571

FK1.


----------



## nubki11a

Isn't the FK1 fairly small though? Comparable size to the AM? What about the SS Rival? I read that its supposed to be pretty good for people with large hands


----------



## metal571

Rival is enormous...but then you have to deal with unreliability and SteelSeries support, which is very unresponsive. Also a heavier mouse but not very heavy though.

FK1 is larger than an FK. It almost feels like the size of a Sensei with the same shape as the FK.


----------



## nubki11a

In comparison to the Zowie AM, how much bigger is the FK1? According to zowiegear.com, the AM is 2mm higher and the FK1 2mm wider and 3mm longer. Aren't these changes negligible? The FK1 looks really good in all other aspects though, I loved the AM's low LOD and sensor. I would like to have a bigger mouse than the AM though...


----------



## metal571

You'd be surprised. The FK1 is really noticeably bigger.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zollos*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *Hi everyone on ocn!*
> 
> First post and i want to say ... what an amazing site and forum this is !!
> 
> I've been here only a few weeks browsing threads where i learned alot already from alot of knowledgable people around here. so thank you!
> 
> The problem through all this various knowledge got me confused in what to pick as my next mouse haha. so if you guys could give me your view points or ideas i'd be thankfull.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> mostly palm
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 400 cpi low to medium in game.
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> If it's worth it then it can be high in price.
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> jeah, maybe only the thumb buttons like mouse 3 / 4
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Used to be competitive Rtcw, now recreative ET, also played some quake and warsow
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes , i hate it.
> *7. Other relevant information*:
> 
> I don't know if this is relevant or not but just to show i'm not a next door noob ( but hey it's ok everyone started like it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) my k/d in a random session of ET public circa 20 minutes , is around 50/70 kils and 10-15 deaths with an 110-150 headshots.
> 
> current pad im using is the puretrak Talent.
> 
> hand is normal size hand, the ime 3.0 felt awesome.
> 
> Some background information:
> 
> I always used a intellimouse 3.0 which will probably be the best mouse i ever used and maybe existed?!... I challenged top euro clans in RTCW with it, the mouse was an extension of my arm really, it did exactly what i wanted.( after oc'ing it to 500 hz btw )
> 
> That mouse feeling was so so raw and pure , nothing ever came close to it. ( anir mousefix + winXp ) = win
> 
> pang pang pang pang, 1 2 down , then a quick flick, swiish , land EXACTLY on the head, bang bang bang, backraper dead.
> 
> Alas , i had to change one time to another mouse and friends were boasting you need to use higher dpi it's better for your aim! buy a razer DA !
> 
> So jeah years ago i bought a DA and tried the high dpi but it was nothing for me , i had good accuracies and such but it didn't feel pure anymore, i can't explain it. you need to experience it i guess Comes with it at that time i didn't even know the formula to calculate my own sensitivity adapted to the cpi i used before and the DA uses , so i stopped using it.
> 
> I also experienced in ET and some other games that there's a difference in bulletresponse with or without drivers installed with razer. but no problem i just uninstalled them and it was a tad more responsive on bulletresponse.
> 
> That last bit i actually experienced with any driver from any mouse, i also owned a mx518 used at 400cpi but that mouse died on me, it went on/off when i did really fast flicks. plus it always felt strange to me as well. accurate but not raw
> 
> and then recently couple of months ago i made a switch to a SS sensei also at 400cpi, god what have i done. It all looked so promising and it actually tracks really well at normal speeds but when i start doing quick flicks it's over, it lands 1-2 cm's next to target, the horror!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well all these experiences are subjective to my gaming experience offcourse, i just wanted to share it with you guys. You are free to interpret what it means for you and in not any way i'm trashing those mice, it's just my situation.
> 
> Now i'm nearing my 30's so my focus on perfect game environment isn't so important anymore because well life is more then games/aim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but... when i still play i'd like to push my limits offcourse.
> 
> So preferable i seek a mouse that gives me the same raw feeling as before , preferably driverless or that a profile can be set up and saved in the mouse and then uninstalled. But most importantly it should have the ultimate tracking i had with the ime3.0 in low dpi, 400 to be exact or even an upgrade to *an even more pure feeling would be great !*
> 
> So i've been reading and comparing , reading and comparing and seeing which one has crappy internals or bad sensor and all that , and i'm coming out at logitech g402 or the SS Rival. , i rather want a g402 with g502 sensor tho if what i'm reading is correct.
> 
> Is there also a difference between the rivals optical sensor and the DA's ? is rivals an updated andvanced sensor or something ?
> 
> haha for those that stick through reading this, thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you guys views about it ? or other recommendations ?
> 
> Thank you in advance !


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Go with the 402, very little smoothing in there. inb4 Max tells you to stick with the IME 3.0 cause the MLT04 is the only sensor anyone should use...which isn't true


Dude. Are you kidding me. He didn't list a single reason that would warrant you to recommend him to switch to a G402. It's like you're mad at the world that you can't use an MLT04 mouse because the malfunction speed is too low for you, so you recommend everyone to not use it.

You're in an extreme minority with your extremely low sensitivity.

The guy wanted a "more raw if anything" than the 3.0 and you F'in recommended him a G402. What a F'in joke.

You're the kind of person that triggered me to come on these forums to try and counter-act all the misinformation and horrible advice people like you are giving to people.

You and a bunch of other people on these forums are just pure marketing BS. Worshiping all the hype and all the bogus claims released about every new mouse/sensor that is released.

The 3090 was marketed as a perfect sensor, yet today we know that is FAR from the truth.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

@nubki11a You're out of luck on the current lot of recent mice to choose from. The good news is you do not need a gaming mouse for LoL. Especially since you use 1150DPI at 6/11, which is high.

FPS players buy gaming mice for the higher malfunction speeds than you'd find in regular mice. RTS and MOBA players do not need high malfunction speeds.

As far as your experience with the AM, I tested and reviewed the Zowie mice, along with others here : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd and had the same experience you did. The Rival is definitely not a massive mouse. It is very thin at the middle and front and therefore it caused my hand to cramp just like the zowie mice. Numerous other people have had these same experiences.

One guy used cloth tape (I use electrical tape) to add a few layers to the mouse to make it larger. You might have to resort to that.

I've heard people say good things about the DA 3g sensor, though I've never tested it myself because the shape is terrible for me.

I think if you could find one of the original razer mice (copperhead, diamondback, krait) you'd be happy with them.

As far as FPS gaming goes, the MLT04 sensor has not yet been matched by any gaming mouse. It is the reigning champion as far as fidelity, snappiness, precision, and responsiveness are concerned. There are a few instances where you'll have to resort to another mouse, and I mention those in the previous link.

For RTS/MOBAs you might want to do a search on teamliquid.net. I think there are 2-3 mice that are the favorites among the competitive scene there. Though currently there's no mouse that's ideal for both RTS/MOBAs and FPS games.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Dude. Are you kidding me. He didn't list a single reason that would warrant you to recommend him to switch to a G402. It's like you're mad at the world that you can't use an MLT04 mouse because the malfunction speed is too low for you, so you recommend everyone to not use it.
> 
> You're in an extreme minority with your extremely low sensitivity.
> 
> The guy wanted a "more raw if anything" than the 3.0 and you F'in recommended him a G402. What a F'in joke.
> 
> You're the kind of person that triggered me to come on these forums to try and counter-act all the misinformation and horrible advice people like you are giving to people.
> 
> You and a bunch of other people on these forums are just pure marketing BS. Worshiping all the hype and all the bogus claims released about every new mouse/sensor that is released.
> 
> The 3090 was marketed as a perfect sensor, yet today we know that is FAR from the truth.


That time I was being half sarcastic. But then again he might really not have much of a choice. At the time I wrote that I'm pretty sure I didn't even have a 402 or I wouldn't have recommended it since it is a claw or fingertip mouse and not a palm mouse. Now that I have an FK1 I can't say anything else I've used over the past 7 years has actually ever felt as responsive in recent memory save for maybe my DA 3.5G. You guys are very picky on smoothing and I understand that the micro-lag that you can feel is a real thing that can affect your aim to a degree. But again you have to remain objective and mention the potential benefits of some recent sensors. That is all I was really saying, but you flipped a but there due to wording. But truly the completely raw feeling is a big advantage, but for a lot of people they really do need more options than one CPI step, one low PCS, and one sensitivity range that is acceptable, depending on game.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Guys, how is the corsair m40/m45 for palm/claw grip? I heard it weighs 90g without cable. It uses the ADNS 3090, correct? I have the G502, Deathadder 2013 which I both love. I am thinking about adding the M40 or M45 to my collection if its any good.
> 
> It looks cheap as hell though, but lightweight... I don't like the fact that the cable isnt in the middle for some reason, it looks weird.
> 
> Hows the implimentation of the 3090 or 3310 sensor? good? how does it compare to other mice with the same sensor?
> 
> Do they use omron switches? How is the button lag and are the buttons stiff or really easy to click?


Anyone, please? I am looking to order one of them soon, if people have good things to say about those mice.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Anyone, please? I am looking to order one of them soon, if people have good things to say about those mice.


I don't know much about them. @DivineDark hasn't sent me his for review yet


----------



## Ikarus22

*What's your grip style?*
Claw
*What's your sensitivity?*
2000 dpi
*What's your maximum budget?*
100$
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 buttons is enough
*What games do you play?*
MOBA mostly
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I'm not sure what that is exactly
*Other relevant information:*
I live in Russia, smaller brands can be harder to find here, and I'm not eager to use russian postal services, I've been using Razer Imperor for the past ~4 years with its famous double-click problem, new Imperor and deathadder seems to have the same problem, so not shure about those


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikarus22*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 2000 dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 100$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 buttons is enough
> *What games do you play?*
> MOBA mostly
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'm not sure what that is exactly
> *Other relevant information:*
> I live in Russia, smaller brands can be harder to find here, and I'm not eager to use russian postal services, I've been using Razer Imperor for the past ~4 years with its famous double-click problem, new Imperor and deathadder seems to have the same problem, so not shure about those


Possibly Logitech G100s.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikarus22*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 2000 dpi
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 100$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 buttons is enough
> *What games do you play?*
> MOBA mostly
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'm not sure what that is exactly
> *Other relevant information:*
> I live in Russia, smaller brands can be harder to find here, and I'm not eager to use russian postal services, I've been using Razer Imperor for the past ~4 years with its famous double-click problem, new Imperor and deathadder seems to have the same problem, so not shure about those


If smaller brands are harder to find, I would say logitech g502, if you dont like all the features, get the G100s. Russia should have a good selection of brands though.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> If smaller brands are harder to find, I would say logitech g502, if you dont like all the features, get the G100s. Russia should have a good selection of brands though.


Actually, mice like Cooler Master Alcor and Roccat KPM are just appearing in gaming-things shops. And ZOWIE FK'1 isn't here yet.


----------



## Ikarus22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> If smaller brands are harder to find, I would say logitech g502, if you dont like all the features, get the G100s. Russia should have a good selection of brands though.


A lot of stuff can be bought from online shops. Razer/Steelseries etc. I can buy in my city. I just read few last pages and for example Zowie fk 1 I don't believe sold in Russia anywhere


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikarus22*
> 
> A lot of stuff can be bought from online shops. Razer/Steelseries etc. I can buy in my city. I just read few last pages and for example Zowie fk 1 I don't believe sold in Russia anywhere


No acceleration mice:
Logitech g502/g402/g100s
Roccat Savu/ Kone Pure Optical/ Kone Pure Military (Military better
Mionix Avior 7000/ Naos 7000
CM Storm Recon/Alcor/Spawn
Corsair m45

Along with Razer, I would avoid Steelseries for mice since all their current mice are either bad or outdated.

Do you care about acceleration? (moving mouse fast will make mouse move further than moving the mouse slow)
If you don't, that would open up more doors for mice options.


----------



## MyNameIsLars

I wonder if there's another forum with a "Mouse Suggestion Thread" anyone could recommend, i'm kinda desperate to figure out what mouse i need.


----------



## bluedevil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Along with Razer, I would avoid Steelseries for mice since all their current mice are either bad or outdated.


Pure opinion. Tons of people like both brands. Also they are not bad nor "outdated". Also the SS Rival has Zero Acceleration.


----------



## Trull

I love how he said that their *current* mice are outdated, lol.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MyNameIsLars*
> 
> I wonder if there's another forum with a "Mouse Suggestion Thread" anyone could recommend, i'm kinda desperate to figure out what mouse i need.


Repost your post again or you can also pm me if really that desperate


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MyNameIsLars*
> 
> I wonder if there's another forum with a "Mouse Suggestion Thread" anyone could recommend, i'm kinda desperate to figure out what mouse i need.


Well, it's gonna be tricky.

First of all, any MMO-orientated mouse have not so precise sensors. I'm no marketing guy, so I cant say why they do that.

Secondly, there's not a whole bunch of "almost-all-your-keyboard" mice. I know only two - Logitech G600 and Razer Naga variations.

And there's Roccat XTD (Optical if you want to). It has 8(7 without Mouse5) buttons+ 4 scroll wheel directions with Easy-Shift function
you can bind 22 functions. But it's very pricey solution


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MyNameIsLars*
> 
> I wonder if there's another forum with a "Mouse Suggestion Thread" anyone could recommend, i'm kinda desperate to figure out what mouse i need.


I'm not gonna read your whole post since it's really long. But this is all I need to know anyways:

>_WoW, Starcraft, Diablo and other games._

You don't need a gaming mouse for these games. FPS gamers buy gaming mice for the high malfunction speeds. You don't need high malfunction speeds for non-FPS games. You can literally go to the store and buy which ever mouse fits your hand the best and is light or has whatever else you like in a mouse.

You can't trust suggestions you get from anyone. You never know how qualified that person is to be giving you a suggestion, and you don't know if they have some bias or alternative motive like promoting a certain mouse/brand. If you don't do your own research you're likely not going to end up with your ideal mouse. - not that there is one at the moment.

For starcraft 2 you're probably better off asking/searching on teamliquid.net.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm not gonna read your whole post since it's really long. But this is all I need to know anyways:
> 
> >_WoW, Starcraft, Diablo and other games._
> 
> You don't need a gaming mouse for these games. FPS gamers buy gaming mice for the high malfunction speeds. You don't need high malfunction speeds for non-FPS games. You can literally go to the store and buy which ever mouse fits your hand the best and is light or has whatever else you like in a mouse.
> 
> You can't trust suggestions you get from anyone. You never know how qualified that person is to be giving you a suggestion, and you don't know if they have some bias or alternative motive like promoting a certain mouse/brand. If you don't do your own research you're likely not going to end up with your ideal mouse. - not that there is one at the moment.
> 
> For starcraft 2 you're probably better off asking/searching on teamliquid.net.


This is incredibly false.

MOBA, RTS gamers need gaming mice. They need to make accurate movements very quickly and they also need to click very often so switch quality is a must. As is weight. You need to not be biased towards these genres, as this is unbelievably false information. These gamers absolutely benefit from a gaming mouse. If you read the forums as much as I do, you would realize that.

@MyNameIsLars RTS and MOBA mice that are really solid are mice such as the Abyssus and G100s.

If we're talking about MMO, then go with the G600.

@DivineDark will also have some useful input here most likely. He is an unusual anomaly who likes Huanos for these kind of genres, but who am I to judge.


----------



## MyNameIsLars

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> Well, it's gonna be tricky.
> 
> First of all, any MMO-orientated mouse have not so precise sensors. I'm no marketing guy, so I cant say why they do that.
> 
> Secondly, there's not a whole bunch of "almost-all-your-keyboard" mice. I know only two - Logitech G600 and Razer Naga variations.
> 
> And there's Roccat XTD (Optical if you want to). It has 8(7 without Mouse5) buttons+ 4 scroll wheel directions with Easy-Shift function
> you can bind 22 functions. But it's very pricey solution


Okaj do you have any experience with the Roccat XTD? Is it a good brand in terms of quality and support?

I might do some research about it, but i doubt i can find the Roccat anywhere close (living in a rural area).

I currently posted in a thread on MMO-Champion to get some clarification if MMO-mice are really needed for optimal MMO-play, it might be a personal discovery but im asking them for they're input.

Besides that i also asked them if anyone tried out all the MMO-mice to make some kind of comparison between the sensors. But why MMO-mice having not accurate sensors seems odd (why they have that, that is).

But the Roccat XTD might be nifty if the shift button is easily acessible along with the rest of the buttons, well it's called easy-shift function.

I guess i gotta try it out.

and thank you metal571 i will look into the g600 more in detail and try it out.

i feel really grateful thanks alot guys.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> They need to make accurate movements very quickly


Modern gaming mice aren't more accurate than non-gaming mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> they also need to click very often so switch quality is a must. As is weight.


Switch quality isn't any better in your average gaming mouse vs your average mouse off the shelf in my experience.

Like I said to him, you can go to a store and click the buttons on all the mice and test the weight, and do whatever else you're looking for.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You need to not be biased towards these genres, as this is unbelievably false information. These gamers absolutely benefit from a gaming mouse. If you read the forums as much as I do, you would realize that.


It's not about bias and it's not false info. Starcraft is the most competitive game that he listed and the best players in the world used random non-gaming mice.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MyNameIsLars*
> 
> Okaj do you have any experience with the Roccat XTD? Is it a good brand in terms of quality and support?
> 
> I might do some research about it, but i doubt i can find the Roccat anywhere close (living in a rural area).
> 
> I currently posted in a thread on MMO-Champion to get some clarification if MMO-mice are really needed for optimal MMO-play, it might be a personal discovery but im asking them for they're input.
> 
> Besides that i also asked them if anyone tried out all the MMO-mice to make some kind of comparison between the sensors. But why MMO-mice having not accurate sensors seems odd (why they have that, that is).
> 
> But the Roccat XTD might be nifty if the shift button is easily acessible along with the rest of the buttons, well it's called easy-shift function.
> 
> I guess i gotta try it out.
> 
> and thank you metal571 i will look into the g600 more in detail and try it out.
> 
> i feel really grateful thanks alot guys.


Sorry, but I don't have experience with XTD. Roccat are one of the best for build quality. Don't know about support that much though.

There's no "good" LED-based sensors in MMO-orientated mice because MMOs don't need crosshair precision like FPS games or something else. But laser-based mice aren't that half bad.

Easy-Shift can be bound only to Mouse4 and Mouse5, because Windows needs M1, M2, M3 as well as Tilt right-left and scroll up-down.


----------



## Swar1ey

Looking for a recommendation for a mouse to use for a XIM4. A XIM4 for those who dont know is a usb addon for xbox one/ps4 that lets you use a mouse and keyboard instead of a controller. Now with how this XIM works its better to have higher DPI. Really a Logitech G502 which I have is perfect for this however I hate the g502 shape and can never use it long without changing it out for a far more comfortable FK1.

So my question for you guys. Is there a mouse out there with higher DPI than a FK1 (remember higher the better...ugh feel terrible just saying that) with a similar shape?


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swar1ey*
> 
> Looking for a recommendation for a mouse to use for a XIM4. A XIM4 for those who dont know is a usb addon for xbox one/ps4 that lets you use a mouse and keyboard instead of a controller. Now with how this XIM works its better to have higher DPI. Really a Logitech G502 which I have is perfect for this however I hate the g502 shape and can never use it long without changing it out for a far more comfortable FK1.
> 
> So my question for you guys. Is there a mouse out there with higher DPI than a FK1 (remember higher the better...ugh feel terrible just saying that) with a similar shape?


For starters, I'd imagine that needs a mouse with good customization options so you can tweak sensitivity etc. via software if necessary. Also, while I haven't tried that device (or consoles), but I'm a bit sceptical that you can achieve optimal mouse performance with such setup, so shape and customization are probably the most important aspects.

Perhaps Sensei or Avior 7000? Rival and Deathadders are customizable and high dpi but different shape.


----------



## Swar1ey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> For starters, I'd imagine that needs a mouse with good customization options so you can tweak sensitivity etc. via software if necessary. Also, while I haven't tried that device (or consoles), but I'm a bit sceptical that you can achieve optimal mouse performance with such setup, so shape and customization are probably the most important aspects.
> 
> Perhaps Sensei or Avior 7000? Rival and Deathadders are customizable and high dpi but different shape.


Actually you change sens options with the xim so you dont need much customization. Optimally you would set the mouse to 500 or 1000hz and the highest dpi setting and never touch mouse customization again.

You're right about optimal mouse performance, sensor doesn't matter much due to how consoles work its just slower and inaccurate all around. Shape and highest dpi are what im after, sensor wont matter much.


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swar1ey*
> 
> Actually you change sens options with the xim so you dont need much customization. Optimally you would set the mouse to 500 or 1000hz and the highest dpi setting and never touch mouse customization again.


That's cool. And a bit surprising. At least half of the single player games on PC nowadays (damn ports) lack proper options for a simple thing like sensitivity. So often I have to dig around ini files etc. to make them somewhat playable.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

How much DPI are you sure you need? And why does the XIM require high DPI?

There are lots of mice with more DPI than the FK1. Pretty much every single mouse.


----------



## Ikarus22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> No acceleration mice:
> Logitech g502/g402/g100s
> Roccat Savu/ Kone Pure Optical/ Kone Pure Military (Military better
> Mionix Avior 7000/ Naos 7000
> CM Storm Recon/Alcor/Spawn
> Corsair m45
> 
> Along with Razer, I would avoid Steelseries for mice since all their current mice are either bad or outdated.
> 
> *Do you care about acceleration?* (moving mouse fast will make mouse move further than moving the mouse slow)
> If you don't, that would open up more doors for mice options.


Well, I won't know unless I'll try it, looks like Imperator has something called negative acceleration. How does it compare to regular acceleration? I've been using Imperator for a long time, so I'm accustomed to it, and it was the thing I haven't even noticed.
Either way, tell me what mouses you have in mind, I'll check them out


----------



## InfiniteShift

Negative acceleration is typically a fault with the hardware. I'm not sure if the technical details behind it, but basically the sensor cannot keep up at high speeds. If you move the mouse from point A to point B, then move the mouse from point A to point B again, but a faster speed, the cursor does not actually go to point B. It will sit somewhere just short of B.

Positive acceleration is generally a feature of the driver, or software for the mouse, or an option within a game. It's the opposite of negative acceleration. The faster you move the mouse, the father the cursor will travel.


----------



## Swar1ey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> How much DPI are you sure you need? And why does the XIM require high DPI?
> 
> There are lots of mice with more DPI than the FK1. Pretty much every single mouse.


Its just a higher is better thing so its easier for the XIM to translate the movement to joystick movement. Because consoles limit turn speed higher dpi is also better here. I'm sure im not explaining it fully or well but I do know using the g502 makes it feel better movement wise its just an uncomfortable mouse for me.

I'm just looking for suggestions of mice that have similar shape to the fk1 and high as possible dpi.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

There aren't any that I'm aware of. The 7000 dpi Avior7000 might be the closest.

Razer has a 10k dpi mouse http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-deathadder-chroma but it's not the same shape at all.

This is a list of the most popular 20 or so mice: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0 but none of them are shaped like the FK1 and have insane dpi levels.


----------



## davidbag

I am searching for a new mouse, and I am between
Logitech G502, Razer Deathadder Chroma, Deathadder 2013, Razer Ouruborous, RAT 9, Seelseries Wireless

1. What's your grip style?

I Had the G700s, and Naga 2014, but they stopped working, without any reason!

2. What's your sensitivity?

Using 5 stages on Naga, between 3200 to 8200dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't have a maximum budget because I want it good, and to work some quite some time!

4. Do you want additional buttons?

No need too much buttons! I used to Use the Naga, and I used maximum 3 buttons

5. Other relevant information:

Don't matter it it is wireless or not! Wireless has the possibility when I travel buy plane or train, but it is not the most important thing!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidbag*
> 
> I am searching for a new mouse, and I am between
> Logitech G502, Razer Ouruborous, RAT 9, Seelseries Wireless
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> I Had the G700s, and Naga 2014, but they stopped working, without any reason!


That's not the answer to the question, and you know you can RMA products when they stop working right?

G700s has a 3 year warranty. Naga has a 2 year warranty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidbag*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Using 5 stages on Naga, between 3200 to 8200dpi.


That's pretty extreme... What size is your monitor(s)?

Also you never answered what you'll be using the mice for. What game(s) or programs.


----------



## davidbag

Warranties!
They gave me the money back to buy what ever I want! I did not any RAM; i went to the store where i Bought it and they gave me the possibility do change for other!

In general I use CS, MOHonor, or race games, or something like Settlers (they are old I know







)!

To work, I program, I use for navigate, and do works, and presentations, sometimes Photoshop...I do what i need at that moment!
On Razer I had, 5 profiles, 3200, 4400, 5600, 6400, 8200. But normally i Used to used it on 5600dpi for almost part of the time!

My screen is a 27" LG TV/Screen screen.

Thank You,


----------



## MaximilianKohler

What grip do you use? 




So even though you went to the store and could exchange the mouse you still want to buy a different one?

27" isn't that big... you lose a lot of precision when you put your sensitivity that high. I'm on 24" and the highest I'd use would be 800. Most pros or top level competitive gamers use 400-800.

The most accurate sensors are currently 400dpi only. http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

These are the top 20 or so most popular mice at the moment: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0 you could look through there and see if anything piques your fancy. I reviewed some of them here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> Hello, can you help me guys with choosing right mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? Here is my info
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I think it's fingertrip with claw? not sure
> 
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> Windows - 7/11
> Logitech set point- 800 dpi
> Battlefield 4 - 7%
> in CS Go it's set to same like in battlefield
> Maybe i will set some lower dpi but dunno how much lower, playing currently on that and it's ok.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> No limit, just want to buy a best mouse for me.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, 2 buttons on the left side like on my mouse Logitech G5
> 
> What games do you play?
> Battlefield 4 and CS GO mainly.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I have a mousepad Zowie gt-f speed and i love it, bought it 3 months ago.
> My hand size from the end of the finger to the wrist is 20 cm.
> I hold my mouse with fingers like 1+2+2(1 left, 2 on top on each button and 2 on the right side of the mouse).
> I can change my grip if it's needed and get used to it, I heard that it's good to play palm grip and on low dpi, dunno if it's true.
> I was thinking about zowie ec1 evo cl, or FK1 but really not sure what to pick. Maybe other mouses ? I want best mouse for FPS games.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Going from that mouse to a Zowie mouse is going to be a hard shift. Both the EC and FK are incredible mice, but they're FAR different in shape to the logitech mx/G shapes. You can look at the G402 or G502 (if you don't mind the weight). They'll be similar. The Kone Pure Military is smaller, and will fit your grip well, but it's much smaller.
> 
> They're all good, but shape wise, it's really preference. If you're wanting to stay in the same area, you can always look for a G400 (non "s"). Same exact shape with a great sensor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> You can test out the G502 and G402 at Best Buy if you're in the states. You'll only be able to get the Zowies off of something like Amazon. The FK1 is similar in shape to the Steelseries Sensei. The Deathadder will have the same basic shape as the EC1. You can try out those mice locally and see if you like the shape, then you can kind of go off of that impression to determine what the Zowies will feel like.
> 
> And the G502 will work like a champ on the G-TF.


Ok so i was at store and :
As i told you before there is no zowie so i have tried deathadder and sensei

I have tried g502 and i don't like it , really i couldn't grab it in a good way, and a sniper botton ... :| Seems to be "slow" for me
g402 - it wasn't able in any store








g400s - it's nice, like my g400 , it's ok
Steelseries sensei (as fk1) - i love it, the shape is awesome and it's helping me to grip my way - claw + palm. I couldn't palm it cuz it seems to be too small for me but if i keep my current grip it's awesome, i feel like i can rock on it.
Deathadder (as evo ec1)- it's also ok but compared to sensei i feel that is way bigger (like me g5) and actually the height i think is a little more than my g5.

So overall i think i really like sensei shape and there is some questions...
1. Sensei or fk1







?
2. fk1 sensor is way better right ?
3. What about buttons , cable of both - quality?
4.What do you think about quality of those 2 and did you have any problems with those mouses?
5. And is zowie support working ok? Because logitech has awesome support, there is no problem with it.
6. And important question - Is the shape of fk1 is pretty same like sensei ? I feel that sensei has "rubbish" feeling but it wasn't that bad, don't know how is it working on long gaming sessions.
What about coating? Doesn't make a hands sweat?

Also i have found one awesome mice - Mionix Avior 7000 it seems to be simillar also so i am thinking about it too.

Thanks for any help !


----------



## davidbag

I could choose the same or a diferente one!
I am looking for one opinion, between what I had, and the some others mice!

When I am on the games I play around 1600 normally not less, it is too slow for me!

But when I work I need more speed, just when I work with some pictures I need more accuracy and change to less dpi...

Maybe I will give a try to the G502, but I do not know if is this the best for me!

Thanks


----------



## V4lky

Hello everyone, so I need to get my first ever gaming mouse, I already went through many reviews, comparisons and all but I'm still a bit confused and I need some help.
I even went as far as measuring my own hand

http://www.ergovancouver.net/perfit_hand_size_chart.htm

I should have a 16 cm long hand, according to this I believe I should stick with small-medium mice.
With that said, here is my current non-gaming mouse, Logitech is the only brand I have used but I'm open for more.

http://www.game-debate.com/mouse/index.php?mo_id=672&mouse=Logitech%20M-SBF96.

1) I tend to use a sort of palm-claw grip, never full palm or full claw
2) No idea really, but I believe not high (400-800 dpi).
3) I can go up to 100€ if I believe it's what I'm looking for.
4) Yes but not too many, I prefer few buttons but very well placed for a small hand.
5) mmos, moba, rts, rpg and tps (including space-sims like the upcoming Star Citizen and Eliteangerous). I enjoy good fps but just for single player, I might change in the future for some online fps like Destiny. I also enjoy playing a rythm game heavily competitive called OSU if someone of you knows it.
6) As much as I understand about prediction, and thinking about the games I usually play most of the times, I don't believe it's so important, but again I'm not into mouse tech, maybe is really important for the games I play, or maybe I couldn't even notice it.

7) A High LOD could be good because sometimes I might inadvertently lift-off as a result of fast 360 spinnings (likely 350-400+ rpm).
As you can see in my current mouse specs, weight is just 68 gr, so I can't really go to suddenly have a heavy mouse.

I'd like to have a nice mouse for small hands with solid grip because I have slight sweat issues, optical sensor, at least 5-7 buttons, and good overall material quality to last a fair amount of time.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> Hello everyone, so I need to get my first ever gaming mouse, I already went through many reviews, comparisons and all but I'm still a bit confused and I need some help.
> I even went as far as measuring my own hand
> 
> http://www.ergovancouver.net/perfit_hand_size_chart.htm
> 
> I should have a 16 cm long hand, according to this I believe I should stick with small-medium mice.
> With that said, here is my current non-gaming mouse, Logitech is the only brand I have used but I'm open for more.
> 
> http://www.game-debate.com/mouse/index.php?mo_id=672&mouse=Logitech%20M-SBF96.
> 
> 1) Palm, palm-claw hybrid
> 2) No idea really, but I believe not high (400-800 dpi).
> 3) I can go up to 100€ if I believe it's what I'm looking for.
> 4) Yes but not too many, I prefer few buttons but very well placed for a small hand.
> 5) mmos, moba, rts, rpg and tps (including space-sims like the upcoming Star Citizen and Eliteangerous). I enjoy good fps but just for single player, I might change in the future for some online fps like Destiny. I also enjoy playing a rythm game heavily competitive called OSU if someone of you knows it.
> 6) As much as I understand about prediction, and thinking about the games I usually play most of the times, I don't believe it's so important, but again I'm not into mouse tech, maybe is really important for the games I play, or maybe I couldn't even notice it.
> 
> 7) A High LOD could be good because sometimes I might inadvertently lift-off as a result of fast 360 spinnings (likely 350-400+ rpm).
> As you can see in my current mouse specs, weight is just 68 gr, so I can't really go to suddenly have a heavy mouse.
> 
> I'd like to have a nice mouse for small hands with solid grip because I have slight sweat issues, optical sensor, at least 5-7 buttons, and good overall material quality to last a fair amount of time.


I won't say all the mice that you could have, but Roccat Savu is totally an option. Even with my GIGANTIC hands (like, 19 cm, even I am a little bit young) it's a perfect match. On my Goliathus Speed LOD is quite high - almost 5+ mm.


----------



## V4lky

Yeah so far I have read good things about the Roccat mice in general







My only concern is about the form factor, as you notice, I use a mouse that is not slanted to the right like the one you talk about. So I can't really know if that is a problem or not.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> Yeah so far I have read good things about the Roccat mice in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My only concern is about the form factor, as you notice, I use a mouse that is not slanted to the right like the one you talk about. So I can't really know if that is a problem or not.


No, it's not a problem. Actually, it's more comfortable than just flat top.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, so I need to get my first ever gaming mouse, I already went through many reviews, comparisons and all but I'm still a bit confused and I need some help.
> I even went as far as measuring my own hand
> 
> http://www.ergovancouver.net/perfit_hand_size_chart.htm
> 
> I should have a 16 cm long hand, according to this I believe I should stick with small-medium mice.
> With that said, here is my current non-gaming mouse, Logitech is the only brand I have used but I'm open for more.
> 
> http://www.game-debate.com/mouse/index.php?mo_id=672&mouse=Logitech%20M-SBF96.
> 
> 1) I tend to use a sort of palm-claw grip, never full palm or full claw
> 2) No idea really, but I believe not high (400-800 dpi).
> 3) I can go up to 100€ if I believe it's what I'm looking for.
> 4) Yes but not too many, I prefer few buttons but very well placed for a small hand.
> 5) mmos, moba, rts, rpg and tps (including space-sims like the upcoming Star Citizen and Eliteangerous). I enjoy good fps but just for single player, I might change in the future for some online fps like Destiny. I also enjoy playing a rythm game heavily competitive called OSU if someone of you knows it.
> 6) As much as I understand about prediction, and thinking about the games I usually play most of the times, I don't believe it's so important, but again I'm not into mouse tech, maybe is really important for the games I play, or maybe I couldn't even notice it.
> 
> 7) A High LOD could be good because sometimes I might inadvertently lift-off as a result of fast 360 spinnings (likely 350-400+ rpm).
> As you can see in my current mouse specs, weight is just 68 gr, so I can't really go to suddenly have a heavy mouse.
> 
> I'd like to have a nice mouse for small hands with solid grip because I have slight sweat issues, optical sensor, at least 5-7 buttons, and good overall material quality to last a fair amount of time.






.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> Ok so i was at store and :
> As i told you before there is no zowie so i have tried deathadder and sensei
> 
> I have tried g502 and i don't like it , really i couldn't grab it in a good way, and a sniper botton ... :| Seems to be "slow" for me
> g402 - it wasn't able in any store
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g400s - it's nice, like my g400 , it's ok
> Steelseries sensei (as fk1) - i love it, the shape is awesome and it's helping me to grip my way - claw + palm. I couldn't palm it cuz it seems to be too small for me but if i keep my current grip it's awesome, i feel like i can rock on it.
> Deathadder (as evo ec1)- it's also ok but compared to sensei i feel that is way bigger (like me g5) and actually the height i think is a little more than my g5.
> 
> So overall i think i really like sensei shape and there is some questions...
> 1. Sensei or fk1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 2. fk1 sensor is way better right ?
> 3. What about buttons , cable of both - quality?
> 4.What do you think about quality of those 2 and did you have any problems with those mouses?
> 5. And is zowie support working ok? Because logitech has awesome support, there is no problem with it.
> 6. And important question - Is the shape of fk1 is pretty same like sensei ? I feel that sensei has "rubbish" feeling but it wasn't that bad, don't know how is it working on long gaming sessions.
> What about coating? Doesn't make a hands sweat?
> 
> Also i have found one awesome mice - Mionix Avior 7000 it seems to be simillar also so i am thinking about it too.
> 
> Thanks for any help !


Ok i have ordered FK1, i will get it tommorow and tell you how i like it. If they will release sensei with 3310 i will instant buy it.


----------



## V4lky

I never heard about the Zowie brand untill recently when I started reading about here at overclock.net, it seems a very nice mouse, only problem is that it's quite hard to find one in a retail shop to test









With that said, this is really a brand of mice that centers around FPS gamers, unfortunately this is not my case, not to say that it wouldn't be such a great start if I have this mouse around and start learning to pro with it









P.s
You have a huuuge hand mine is so tiny in comparison, but I believe big enough to fully palm the FK1 as I tried a different mouse today, and I must say, I kind of prefer a longer mouse, I found it much more comfortable than the Logitech.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> I never heard about the Zowie brand untill recently when I started reading about here at overclock.net, it seems a very nice mouse, only problem is that it's quite hard to find one in a retail shop to test


I had same problem







@DivineDark told me to try deathadder(as ec1) and sensei(as fk1) and i think it's a really good idea because they are similar in shape.


----------



## aLb.Strykr

What's your grip style?

i like the claw method, currently i have the SideWinder TM(which is like the X5 but it was nicer built)

What's your sensitivity?
i use around 1600DPI on this mouse(its dyingon me which is why i wanted a new one)

What's your maximum budget?

60-70 before tax

Do you want additional buttons?

the same as SideWinder really extra wouldnt be a bad idea though

What games do you play?
dota 2, css, bf3 for now

Do you mind about prediction?

dont know what this is

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. preferably lit ... i have everything lit my keyboard, mouse and case .. colour doesnt matter blue/red or green white wouldnt be bad either but prefer the mouse itself ot be black unless the price is super cheap on white


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLb.Strykr*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> i like the claw method, currently i have the SideWinder TM(which is like the X5 but it was nicer built)
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> i use around 1600DPI on this mouse(its dyingon me which is why i wanted a new one)
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 60-70 before tax
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> the same as SideWinder really extra wouldnt be a bad idea though
> 
> What games do you play?
> dota 2, css, bf3 for now
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> dont know what this is
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. preferably lit ... i have everything lit my keyboard, mouse and case .. colour doesnt matter blue/red or green white wouldnt be bad either but prefer the mouse itself ot be black unless the price is super cheap on white


Claw, LED and fps.... I would say :

SS Kana v2 (not recommended)
Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Military
Mionix Avior 7000/Naos 7000
Logitech G502 (only if you want a heavier mouse)
Razer Deathadder 2013 (only if you pay less than $50, poor build quality/plastic)
CM Storm Spawn/Recon/Alcor (not confident in quality of these, and they are far below your budget)

Roccat and Mionix mice i listed fit your requirement perfectly imo.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bulkas*
> 
> Ok i have ordered FK1, i will get it tommorow and tell you how i like it. If they will release sensei with 3310 i will instant buy it.


Ok i have FK1 and testing it, i haven't noticed any problem but the scroll (up) is missing sometimes like 1 on 10 is missed... Scroll down is fine. i was reading about it and some people was replacing it because of that, some even gave up on them ;o Should i replace it or it's on all zowies mices now ?
And a left and right click is a little different in noise, is it normall and is it a problem ;p ?

I will test it more and tell you my feelings


----------



## V4lky

I might aswell wait news about this from Zowie since it's a common problem it seems.


----------



## e4stw00t

To my knowledge the skipping happens on most of their mice since ...well probably since they offer mice. So don't expect a statement or fix for it anytime soon.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> To my knowledge the skipping happens on most of their mice since ...well probably since they offer mice. So don't expect a statement or fix for it anytime soon.


NVM... Misread.


----------



## bluedevil

Gotta say, I just got my SS Rival installed....pretty much the best mouse I have ever used....so not going back to anything without side rubber grips!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedevil*
> 
> Gotta say, I just got my SS Rival installed....pretty much the best mouse I have ever used....so not going back to anything without side rubber grips!


I do like the rival. Very comfortable for my particular grip style.


----------



## Bulkas

Ok so as i promised:

I just got my FK1 and i love it ! i was playing yesterday for like 7 hours.

*Shape and weight -* really light and awesome i can really easy hold my mouse (claw palm hybrid) and pick up without any problems.

*Coating -* it's ok, i like it, my hands are not sweating.

*Scroll -* here is a minus, beacause scroll down works fine but scroll up misses sometimes (like 2 on 10 or something) but i can live with it- not using it in games ;p Scroll is more quiet than in my g5.

*Switches-* i really like huano switches ! I was aware of really stiff switches but they are not that stiff as i though personally i love it more than omron

*Buttons on the side-* works also ok but here is one minus, i can bind them in-game but in BF4 i was using it for jet to flying beak up and beak down - before i just bind my g5 buttons to up and down arrow(in SetPoint), and then i binded up and down arrow to beak up and beak down so i could fly with my mouse up and down and also i could do it with my 2 side buttons, is there any way to bind it somehow with zowie? Because atm i have to choose - maneuvering with a mouse or with a buttons.
Nice thing also- i am right handed and i don't feel a buttons on a right side, the spot of them is good.

*Sensor*- works awesome, i feel the difference. Also, LOD is awesome, cursor just mostly stays at the same place when i pick up.

Overall that was big upgrade for me from g5 and i love it. I don't want any other shape for now







I am happy that i have chosen that mouse







Big improvment for gaming in my case.
As i said mouse is so light compared to my g5, i can maneuver with that mouse way way easier.

I can live with that scroll;p

Playing 42 cm on 360 atm
800 dpi
1000 Hz

Thanks a lot for help guys! I wouldn't even know that zowie exists but thanks to the overlock.net and you guys i know


----------



## hza

Congratz for finding your new _perfect_ mouse. HF GL I'd say.


----------



## Bulkas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Congratz for finding your new _perfect_ mouse. HF GL I'd say.


Thanks !


----------



## Ketchypie

What's your grip style?
Palm grip hybrid
What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi 1.2-2.8 in games currently using 2 in csgo
What's your maximum budget?
any
Do you want additional buttons?
dont mind
What games do you play?
CS:GO mainly other fps games league from time to time
Do you mind about prediction?
dont want it
Other relevant information:
I'm currently using a Steelseries RAW Glossy i love the weight and shape but I can't stand the LOD so anything like the RAW with a better LOD. I also like the glossy or rubber feel to my mice if that's possible but it's the least important thing.


----------



## Screwball

What's your grip style?
fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
10 inch per 360
What's your maximum budget?
150 USD
Do you want additional buttons?
standard forward and back side buttons
What games do you play?
TF2 at a competitive level (ALLOT of very fast movements)
Do you mind about prediction?
i want as raw input as i can get
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want.
Nothing glossy. No solid rubber sides(like the DA 2013) preferably huano switches our stiffer omrons are fine to.
Low LOD is a must and weight must be low.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 10 inch per 360
> What's your maximum budget?
> 150 USD
> Do you want additional buttons?
> standard forward and back side buttons
> What games do you play?
> TF2 at a competitive level (ALLOT of very fast movements)
> Do you mind about prediction?
> i want as raw input as i can get
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Nothing glossy. No solid rubber sides(like the DA 2013) preferably huano switches our stiffer omrons are fine to.
> Low LOD is a must and weight must be low.


Zowie FK1 easy win.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Zowie FK1 easy win.


Hands down what I would say.


----------



## Screwball

Does the fk1 have the 16 step wheel our 24 step? I HIGHLY prefer the 16 step wheel.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> Does the fk1 have the 16 step wheel our 24 step? I HIGHLY prefer the 16 step wheel.


24. All of their newer models have the 24.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 10 inch per 360
> What's your maximum budget?
> 150 USD
> Do you want additional buttons?
> standard forward and back side buttons
> What games do you play?
> TF2 at a competitive level (ALLOT of very fast movements)
> Do you mind about prediction?
> i want as raw input as i can get
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want.
> Nothing glossy. No solid rubber sides(like the DA 2013) preferably huano switches our stiffer omrons are fine to.
> Low LOD is a must and weight must be low.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Zowie FK1 easy win.


Being that he is a competitive FPS gamer the MLT04 sensor will give him a big advantage over the FK1.

Even the 



. The reason to buy the FK1 would be for the shape.


----------



## metal571

Yeah but at 10cm/360, I'm not even sure 400 CPI would be enough.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

What do you mean by not enough? What problems do you foresee him having?


----------



## InfiniteShift

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah but at 10cm/360, I'm not even sure 400 CPI would be enough.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 10 inch per 360


He said 10 inches. ;p Unless that's a typo.


----------



## metal571

Oops, thought that was cm. Was gonna say you need at least 800+ CPI if you're gonna play at 10cm lol


----------



## Screwball

Quote:


> Being that he is a competitive FPS gamer the MLT04 sensor will give him a big advantage over the FK1.
> 
> Even the KPM sensor performed better than the FK1 in my experience. The reason to buy the FK1 would be for the shape.


The problem with the MLT04 sensor is the pathetic perfect control speed.

I also stated i want a slow clicky scroll wheel.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oops, thought that was cm. Was gonna say you need at least 800+ CPI if you're gonna play at 10cm lol


Why would you need 800+?

When you use high sensitivity on the MLT04 you feel some negative effect that you don't feel on an 800dpi mouse? I understand there's theoretical benefit, but it's not a tangible one in my experience. Just like one of the best aimers in the world uses 5/11 in windows speed. Not all "negatives" have tangible, detrimental affects.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> I also stated i want a slow clicky scroll wheel.


What does that mean?

BTW, at 10in/360 1.5m/s is FAR more than you'll need. So the MLT04 malfunction speed isn't a factor for you at all. I've played with 20in/360 on 1.5m/s and had no problems till I had to play with 125hz, IE: 1m/s on 20in/360.


----------



## metal571

Pixel skipping.

I'd say you're right on the verge of where 400 CPI isn't enough, actually. But you might be able to get away with it at 90 fov at 1080p.

This is a pretty good old school calculator that seems to have the same values as CS's sensitivity. (i.e. my 1.484 equates to about exactly 70cm/360)

http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

Although with what I use in-game, it says I only need 200 CPI, but when I go and try 200 CPI I really do feel like I'd rather have 400.


----------



## Screwball

that calculator says i need 500+ dpi


----------



## aLb.Strykr

hey guys what you think about the corsair m95 ? i am comming of sidewinder TM and i had suggestions before but didnt really like the aesthetics of those tried some of them at my lcoal ncix but was not happy with them ... the m95 is $65 + tax here and the m65 is 50$ + tax im good with whichever one is better ... i thought since m95 is a bit 'higher' it will be better for longer preiod of time (min 5 years as thats how long my sidewinder lasted)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLb.Strykr*
> 
> hey guys what you think about the corsair m95 ? i am comming of sidewinder TM and i had suggestions before but didnt really like the aesthetics of those tried some of them at my lcoal ncix but was not happy with them ... the m95 is $65 + tax here and the m65 is 50$ + tax im good with whichever one is better ... i thought since m95 is a bit 'higher' it will be better for longer preiod of time (min 5 years as thats how long my sidewinder lasted)


Neither.


----------



## aLb.Strykr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Neither.


just curious why not?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLb.Strykr*
> 
> just curious why not?


The sensors aren't a favorite of the regulars here. If you like the shape and want to stick with Corsair, then look at the M45. Same shape, better sensor for fps style games. For RTS and the like, any will work, but the weight of the mice you mention is pretty high. That can be fatiguing if you aren't used to it. Also, the M65 has the worst placement for a sniper button of any mouse I own.

The M95 is good for an MMO mouse, as the sensor doesn't matter a whole lot.


----------



## aLb.Strykr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The sensors aren't a favorite of the regulars here. If you like the shape and want to stick with Corsair, then look at the M45. Same shape, better sensor for fps style games. For RTS and the like, any will work, but the weight of the mice you mention is pretty high. That can be fatiguing if you aren't used to it. Also, the M65 has the worst placement for a sniper button of any mouse I own.
> 
> The M95 is good for an MMO mouse, as the sensor doesn't matter a whole lot.


my friend plays bf3 with his m65 no complaints he recommended it to me .. the sniper button wasnt placed bad for my hand (im coming of the SideWinder TM so im used to that spot ...) also i play dota css bf3 and yeah ... only reaosn i need to find a new mouse is cause my sidewinder is double clicking now and its gotten up to my nerves .....


----------



## DivineDark

That's fine. I'm just saying, if you like the shape, the M45 is exactly the same, but lighter and has a 3310 LED optical sensor. It is accurate and doesn't have the inherent acceleration of the ADNS9800 sensor. It's your choice, ultimately, but if you're on here to ask for opinions, then you're not going to see anyone recommend an ADNS9x00 sensor mouse when you can buy the same mouse with a better sensor and lighter weight.

Again, most of the enthusiasts on this forum are FPS players. I'm an RTS player primarily, so I still use a Sensei from time to time. Same sensor, but I love the shape enough to deal with it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Pixel skipping.
> 
> I'd say you're right on the verge of where 400 CPI isn't enough, actually. But you might be able to get away with it at 90 fov at 1080p.
> 
> This is a pretty good old school calculator that seems to have the same values as CS's sensitivity. (i.e. my 1.484 equates to about exactly 70cm/360)
> 
> http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html
> 
> Although with what I use in-game, it says I only need 200 CPI, but when I go and try 200 CPI I really do feel like I'd rather have 400.


You didn't answer my questions.

In my experience "useful DPI" does not have a noticeable effect. Especially considering that higher DPI mice currently perform worse, so it's currently impossible to make an objective comparison.

Not to mention that rawinput is available in source engine games, so this isn't even a factor for him at all.


----------



## ZeBodscha

i have been using the logitech mx 5xx / g 400x series since i can think back. so i'm coming from a rather clumsy mouse. mice i tested and i liked were the intelli 1.1 (years ago) and the zowie fk1 (few weeks ago).

What's your grip style? rather claw
What's your sensitivity? ~40cm/360, native 400 or 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? ~60€
Do you want additional buttons? definitely need two thump buttons on the right thump (mouse 4, mouse5)
What games do you play? several fps, cs:go in the first place
Do you mind about prediction? yes, i'd like to avoid most kind of corruptions such as prediction/angle snapping, acceleration, smoothing etc.
Other relevant information:

i'd like a light, ambidextrous shaped, optical mouse (hate laser mice), that is wired and isn't too prone to cable breaks. i don't need any drivers, as long as i can set it to a stable 1000hz and one of the dpi steps mentioned above, without fiddling with the registry and other bs. i already tested the zowie fk1 and i really loved the mouse (for its shape, surface and technical characteristics, and the missing shenanigans that nobody needs). but the mushy mwheel that didn't trigger reliably was a reason for me to send it back, since they killed my bunnyhops and strafes. i didn't have a problem with the relatively stiff mouse-buttons at all; i'd actually like the mousewheel to rather be the same, than being too squishy. i'm playing on a qck heavy+ (cloth) and have rather wet hands, that's why i'd like to avoid glossy surfaces, i guess?!


to sum it up: looking for something similar to the zowie fk1 [light weight (so it's easy to maneuver) , no extras/drivers (necessarily), 5 buttons, ambidextrous, rather rubbery than glossy (but not the soft kind of rubber), flawless sensor, 1000hz, native 400/800 dpi, no noticeable input lags, minimized corruption/tracking error]

thanks for any suggestions


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You didn't answer my questions.
> 
> In my experience "useful DPI" does not have a noticeable effect. Especially considering that higher DPI mice currently perform worse, so it's currently impossible to make an objective comparison.
> 
> Not to mention that rawinput is available in source engine games, so this isn't even a factor for him at all.


I did answer the question. Pixel skipping. 400 CPI is not enough for people with higher sensitivities, but his is probably fine. What the hell does raw input have anything to do with angular resolution?


----------



## Farih

[*] What's your grip style?
Palm/fingertip
[*] What's your sensitivity?
2000 to 2400 DPI
[*] What's your maximum budget?
Doesnt matter but being Dutch i like cheap.
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
No, well dont care really
[*] What games do you play?
RTS, RPG, a little FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
Not if i can turn it off.
[*] Other relevant information:
I like a little bit of weight in the mouse.
Size and shape of MX518 and Corsair M90 is what i like. (mx518 is to light, m90 scroll wheel keeps dying on me)
I only like to use cloth pads and they tend to get dirty to.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I did answer the question. Pixel skipping. 400 CPI is not enough for people with higher sensitivities, but his is probably fine. What the hell does raw input have anything to do with angular resolution?


No, this was my question:
Quote:


> When you use high sensitivity on the MLT04 you feel some negative effect that you don't feel on an 800dpi mouse? I understand there's theoretical benefit, but it's not a tangible one in my experience. Just like one of the best aimers in the world uses 5/11 in windows speed. Not all "negatives" have tangible, detrimental affects.


I have never experienced a need to use higher DPI to counteract some kind of pixel skipping phenomenon. At these insanely high sensitivities that some people are using you simply lose the ability to perceive most negative effects because you've already lost so much precision at that point. So saying "_400 CPI is not enough for people with higher sensitivities_" is a ridiculous statement to me that is based entirely on a theoretical benefit but not a tangible one. Whereas picking a high DPI mouse over an MLT04 is a very tangible difference for FPS games. The only times I see higher DPI being *needed* are in games that don't let you change your sensitivity or have some other kind of problem like in SC2.

I also read that useful DPI isn't a factor anymore when using raw input.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No, this was my question:
> I have never experienced a need to use higher DPI to counteract some kind of pixel skipping phenomenon. At these insanely high sensitivities that some people are using you simply lose the ability to perceive most negative effects because you've already lost so much precision at that point. So saying "_400 CPI is not enough for people with higher sensitivities_" is a ridiculous statement to me that is based entirely on a theoretical benefit but not a tangible one. Whereas picking a high DPI mouse over an MLT04 is a very tangible difference for FPS games. The only times I see higher DPI being *needed* are in games that don't let you change your sensitivity or have some other kind of problem like in SC2.
> 
> I also read that useful DPI isn't a factor anymore when using raw input.


Contrary to your elitist attitude of higher CPI being useless because no one could possibly do well using a higher sensitivity, from the sounds of it, higher CPI is helpful for more casual FPS gamers who prefer not to have gigantic supermats.

Explain to me how raw input affects in any way, shape, or form, the angle turned in an FPS game at the same CPI and the same sensitivity. No clue why someone would say raw input makes higher CPI pointless.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Contrary to your elitist attitude of higher CPI being useless because no one could possibly do well using a higher sensitivity, from the sounds of it, higher CPI is helpful for more casual FPS gamers who prefer not to have gigantic supermats.
> 
> Explain to me how raw input affects in any way, shape, or form, the angle turned in an FPS game at the same CPI and the same sensitivity. No clue why someone would say raw input makes higher CPI pointless.


That isn't the argument.

First of all, it's not elitist. It's factual. There isn't a single pro player using that high of sensitivity. 99% of pro CS players are using 28-54cm/360. There are massive negative effects too far outside that range. When you drastically leave that range it's no longer preference. There are tangible negatives. Other FPS games vary a bit, but they still have a specific range where 99% of pro players will be in.

Noobs tend to default to outside that range on the high side. I did the exact same thing when I was a casual CS player. Then a competitive CS player taught me the basics and I improved drastically.

The fact that not everyone wants to be a pro is irrelevant. No one wants to be horrible at a game they spend a lot of time in.

Now onto the 2nd part of your statement: you can use a sensitivity that still falls in the previously mentioned range and still be able to use a regular sized mousepad.

And you are still conflating 2 issues in your first statement. You are taking for granted that you need high CPI in order to use high sensitivity - you do not. I commented on this, asked you to respond, and you still haven't.

Regarding raw_input: http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50#user_v - there is way too much info there for me to ever remember. I would never be able to explain it to you. I've seen a number of people say it though. Here's a quote where it mentions it:

_"There is a point however where a higher sensitivity ends up with our count radian value being larger than our pixel radian value. Beyond this setting every count registered by the OS will end up in a radial movement that is larger than what a single pixel represents (in the center matrix), and could look like pixel skipping, at least perceptually. It is important to remember that because we move in radians that we may be moving to a coordinate that is at the edge of the adjacent pixel (coordinates being infinitely smaller than a pixel) which could feel like an odd behavior to the player; but again, this is a perceptual incongruity as these values do not directly interact with one another %99 of the time (only when 2D planar movement is injected into this environment will pixels and counts have any direct correlation). The three variables that have influence over this ratio is our Windows sensitivity, in-game sensitivity, and m_yaw. *If WM_INPUT (raw input) is being used, only m_yaw will be a pertinent value.*"_


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That isn't the argument.
> 
> First of all, it's not elitist. It's factual. There isn't a single pro player using that high of sensitivity. 99% of pro CS players are using 28-54cm/360. There are massive negative effects too far outside that range. When you drastically leave that range it's no longer preference. There are tangible negatives. Other FPS games vary a bit, but they still have a specific range where 99% of pro players will be in.
> 
> Noobs tend to default to outside that range on the high side. I did the exact same thing when I was a casual CS player. Then a competitive CS player taught me the basics and I improved drastically.
> 
> The fact that not everyone wants to be a pro is irrelevant. No one wants to be horrible at a game they spend a lot of time in.
> 
> Now onto the 2nd part of your statement: you can use a sensitivity that still falls in the previously mentioned range and still be able to use a regular sized mousepad.
> 
> And you are still conflating 2 issues in your first statement. You are taking for granted that you need high CPI in order to use high sensitivity - you do not. I commented on this, asked you to respond, and you still haven't.
> 
> Regarding raw_input: http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50#user_v - there is way too much info there for me to ever remember. I would never be able to explain it to you. I've seen a number of people say it though. Here's a quote where it mentions it:
> 
> _"There is a point however where a higher sensitivity ends up with our count radian value being larger than our pixel radian value. Beyond this setting every count registered by the OS will end up in a radial movement that is larger than what a single pixel represents (in the center matrix), and could look like pixel skipping, at least perceptually. It is important to remember that because we move in radians that we may be moving to a coordinate that is at the edge of the adjacent pixel (coordinates being infinitely smaller than a pixel) which could feel like an odd behavior to the player; but again, this is a perceptual incongruity as these values do not directly interact with one another %99 of the time (only when 2D planar movement is injected into this environment will pixels and counts have any direct correlation). The three variables that have influence over this ratio is our Windows sensitivity, in-game sensitivity, and m_yaw. *If WM_INPUT (raw input) is being used, only m_yaw will be a pertinent value.*"_


I laughed by the second sentence. Not everyone is a pro, not everyone is playing CS, and not everyone wants to be perfect all the time. It's a different mentality dude. You have to respect those who don't want to play at that sensitivity. Some people don't care if they're better with a sens like that, they just don't want to play with it.

And like that snippet reads, you will be more of an angle per count from the mouse to the point where you start to lose accuracy on small targets if you are playing at a higher sensitivity, say 10cm, with only 400 CPI. That's the only point I'm making. The only thing raw input is designed to change is the way the counts are read from the mouse, not how the turning works. You can't tell me that 400 CPI magically is not going to pixel skip at 10cm just because raw input is enabled. Raw input has nothing to do with it. Take CS GO, try a sens of 6 at 400 CPI and toggle raw input off and then on. You still won't be able to hit crap not just because of the higher sensitivity but also because there is no longer enough angular resolution. That is the only point I'll make and the only point I need to make because it is very simple.

All that argument that you bolded says is that raw input ignores Windows settings.


----------



## metal571

The biggest problem I have, Max, is that you are using the forum to tell people that one sensitivity range, one sensor, one mouse, one CPI is the only true correct one to ever use. Not everyone plays CS. Not everyone plays in that sensitivity range. Not everyone requires just 400 CPI. It also isn't a forum where you tell people how to get good at the game. You can suggest how to get better but in the end we are helping people based on how they currently want to play the game. You can't just tell people they're garbage because their settings are simply "wrong." I'm not arguing that you're incorrect in saying that that sens range is right and that most pros use it etc. I'm arguing with the fact that you think everyone should play with that and everyone does play with that. Then you also make false statements like not needing a pro gaming mouse for MOBA. Just stop being biased by what you're best at playing and look at the bigger picture. That's all I ask.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Not everyone is a pro, not everyone is playing CS, and not everyone wants to be perfect all the time. It's a different mentality dude. You have to respect those who don't want to play at that sensitivity. Some people don't care if they're better with a sens like that, they just don't want to play with it.


You're assuming they're making that informed choice. I'm going to assume anyone using 2-8x the maximum of the normal range is not informed, because that's been my experience.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> And like that snippet reads, you will be more of an angle per count from the mouse to the point where you start to lose accuracy on small targets if you are playing at a higher sensitivity, say 10cm, with only 400 CPI. That's the only point I'm making. The only thing raw input is designed to change is the way the counts are read from the mouse, not how the turning works. You can't tell me that 400 CPI magically is not going to pixel skip at 10cm just because raw input is enabled. Raw input has nothing to do with it. Take CS GO, try a sens of 6 at 400 CPI and toggle raw input off and then on. You still won't be able to hit crap not just because of the higher sensitivity but also because there is no longer enough angular resolution. That is the only point I'll make and the only point I need to make because it is very simple.


Ok. What I am saying is that you recommending people high DPI mice based off a 10cm/360 statement is flawed because you're pretending like every mouse performs the same.

You're telling people to use tangibly worse mice because of a theoretical benefit. And I asked you 3 times already, if you're personally able to perceive that theoretical benefit, because I'm not, and I gave reference to one of the best aimers in the world who also isn't.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You're assuming they're making that informed choice. I'm going to assume anyone using 2-8x the maximum of the normal range is not informed, because that's been my experience.
> Ok. What I am saying is that you recommending people high DPI mice based off a 10cm/360 statement is flawed because you're pretending like every mouse performs the same.
> 
> You're telling people to use tangibly worse mice because of a theoretical benefit. And I asked you 3 times already, if you're personally able to perceive that theoretical benefit, because I'm not, and I gave reference to one of the best aimers in the world who also isn't.


I'm not even arguing about theoretical benefits of higher CPI, since I don't use it myself. It doesn't make any sense to use higher CPI, it just feels less accurate. I always use the lowest I can get away with. I recently considered switching to 200 CPI.

But if someone wants to use a higher sensitivity, it is going to nearly necessitate a higher CPI or they'll just straight up miss small targets entirely.

EDIT: Looking back at your original question, maybe the reason I haven't answered it is because I'm confused by the wording of it.


----------



## Farih

Instead of fighting maybe suggest me a mouse, same goes for the other user above me.

This thread was to suggest people a good mouse after awnsering the qeustions in the OP right ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Instead of fighting maybe suggest me a mouse, same goes for the other user above me.
> 
> This thread was to suggest people a good mouse after awnsering the qeustions in the OP right ?


lol, sorry this happens sometimes in this thread.

G402.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm not even arguing about theoretical benefits of higher CPI


You are. Again in this next quote:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> But *if someone wants to use a higher sensitivity, it is going to nearly necessitate a higher CPI or they'll just straight up miss small targets entirely.*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> EDIT: Looking back at your original question, maybe the reason I haven't answered it is because I'm confused by the wording of it.


Ok, the bolded part of the last quote is what I'm talking about. In that quote you're referring to a theoretical benefit of "useful DPI". I say it is theoretical because:

1. I didn't notice the difference when I tried to test it. At those crazy high sensitivities it's pretty difficult to perceive variances though, since you have a high amount of inaccuracy due to the sensitivity itself.
2. Testing this useful DPI benefit isn't very reliable at the moment because pretty much all mice behave differently on different DPI settings (I remember you saying your avior felt better on lower DPI). So it's hard to say whether some phenomena is from the mouse or the "useful DPI".

I was asking you if you've ever personally tested it and confirmed that there is a tangible difference.

There is a tangible difference when going from an MLT04 mouse to the vast majority of high DPI mice. So what I'm saying is that you've been recommending that people switch to an inferior mouse in order to gain a theoretical benefit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Then you also make false statements like not needing a pro gaming mouse for MOBA.


That wasn't a false statement. We went over that already. Starcraft is the most competitive of those kinds of games and the best players in the world used random non-gaming mice.
Gaming mice don't provide things for those kinds of games that non-gaming mice can't. Things you mentioned like "light switches" are available in non-gaming mice. And precision is not better in gaming mice than in non-gaming mice at the moment.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Instead of fighting maybe suggest me a mouse, same goes for the other user above me.
> 
> This thread was to suggest people a good mouse after awnsering the qeustions in the OP right ?


I won't give you a recommendation. Just information so you can make an informed decision.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Farih

Its ok the way you argue IMO but also help the people with questions that came here just for that because the thread is made for just that.

Btw.
Is the 402 good with sweaty hands ?


----------



## denman

What's your grip style? Fingertip grip.
What's your sensitivity? I use a moderate to low sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget? I'd like to spend less than $100.
Do you want additional buttons? Two on the left side for thumb would be fine.
What games do you play? League of Legends, TESO, SWTOR, and occasionally Planetside 2.
Do you mind about prediction? No idea.
Other relevant information: I would like a matte finish and on the side of light weight. I currently have a G702. I don't have a problem with the mouse, I just feel like it's too heavy after using it like last 3 years. I was about to order the Zowie ZF1, but figured I would post here to see if there was something better for me.

I kind of prefer wireless, with a charging station, but I don't want the added weight of a battery, so a braided cord is alright as well.

*edit:* I am looking for recommendations, not eight paragraphs of math and reasons.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *denman*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip grip.
> What's your sensitivity? I use a moderate to low sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget? I'd like to spend less than $100.
> Do you want additional buttons? Two on the left side for thumb would be fine.
> What games do you play? League of Legends, TESO, SWTOR, and occasionally Planetside 2.
> Do you mind about prediction? No idea.
> Other relevant information: I would like a matte finish and on the side of light weight. I currently have a G702. I don't have a problem with the mouse, I just feel like it's too heavy after using it like last 3 years. I was about to order the Zowie ZF1, but figured I would post here to see if there was something better for me.
> 
> I kind of prefer wireless, with a charging station, but I don't want the added weight of a battery, so a braided cord is alright as well.
> 
> *edit:* I am looking for recommendations, not eight paragraphs of math and reasons.


I would say FK1, but the buttons are stiffer than people generally like for non-FPS games.

Every mouse has its flaws and negatives.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Its ok the way you argue IMO but also help the people with questions that came here just for that because the thread is made for just that.
> 
> Btw.
> Is the 402 good with sweaty hands ?


It's rubberized and sticks real well. I use mine at work because I prefer ambi mice, and I can tell you that right now as I type this with the 402 beside me it sticks real nicely with some sweat.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *denman*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip grip.
> What's your sensitivity? I use a moderate to low sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget? I'd like to spend less than $100.
> Do you want additional buttons? Two on the left side for thumb would be fine.
> What games do you play? League of Legends, TESO, SWTOR, and occasionally Planetside 2.
> Do you mind about prediction? No idea.
> Other relevant information: I would like a matte finish and on the side of light weight. I currently have a G702. I don't have a problem with the mouse, I just feel like it's too heavy after using it like last 3 years. I was about to order the Zowie ZF1, but figured I would post here to see if there was something better for me.
> 
> I kind of prefer wireless, with a charging station, but I don't want the added weight of a battery, so a braided cord is alright as well.
> 
> *edit:* I am looking for recommendations, not eight paragraphs of math and reasons.


FK1 sounds good. I just hope the switches are to your liking because they are noticeably stiffer than Omrons, which can affect people in those kinds of games. That said, DivineDark has tons of Zowies and loves them for non-FPS, so there's that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You are. Again in this next quote:
> 
> Ok, the bolded part of the last quote is what I'm talking about. In that quote you're referring to a theoretical benefit of "useful DPI". I say it is theoretical because:
> 
> 1. I didn't notice the difference when I tried to test it. At those crazy high sensitivities it's pretty difficult to perceive variances though, since you have a high amount of inaccuracy due to the sensitivity itself.
> 2. Testing this useful DPI benefit isn't very reliable at the moment because pretty much all mice behave differently on different DPI settings (I remember you saying your avior felt better on lower DPI). So it's hard to say whether some phenomena is from the mouse or the "useful DPI".
> 
> I was asking you if you've ever personally tested it and confirmed that there is a tangible difference.
> 
> There is a tangible difference when going from an MLT04 mouse to the vast majority of high DPI mice. So what I'm saying is that you've been recommending that people switch to an inferior mouse in order to gain a theoretical benefit.
> That wasn't a false statement. We went over that already. Starcraft is the most competitive of those kinds of games and the best players in the world used random non-gaming mice.
> Gaming mice don't provide things for those kinds of games that non-gaming mice can't. Things you mentioned like "light switches" are available in non-gaming mice. And precision is not better in gaming mice than in non-gaming mice at the moment.
> I won't give you a recommendation. Just information so you can make an informed decision.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


My point was not saying to switch sensors. If the player is a casual they probably won't notice the difference between an MLT04 and a 3310 anyway, and I'm giving a use case such as using 800 vs 400 CPI on an FK1 for a higher sensitivity. What I'm saying is that if you move just one count at 400 CPI on a high enough sensitivity, obviously you will be skipping over more than one pixel on the screen as opposed to using half the in-game sens with 800 CPI equating to the same cm/360.

Also you can't just call everything that isn't an MLT04 inferior, because there are some aspects of sensors that make them considerably better than the MLT04. What aspects of a sensor's tracking matter to individual people are their own opinions. But I've already mentioned that.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It's rubberized and sticks real well. I use mine at work because I prefer ambi mice, and I can tell you that right now as I type this with the 402 beside me it sticks real nicely with some sweat.


Thanks









I hope that sniper button thing on the G402 doesnt get in the way of my hands though.

How is the Corsair M95 ?
I am on my third M90 because the scroll wheel keeps getting bugged, scrolling up mostly goes down lol.
I do like the shape and weight of the M90 very much but i dont need all the extra buttons though.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that sniper button thing on the G402 doesnt get in the way of my hands though.
> 
> How is the Corsair M95 ?
> I am on my third M90 because the scroll wheel keeps getting bugged, scrolling up mostly goes down lol.
> I do like the shape and weight of the M90 very much but i dont need all the extra buttons though.


Don't buy any Corsair mice except the M45. Some say it is laggier than the other 3310 mice though in implementation, but I haven't tried it myself.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Don't buy any Corsair mice except the M45. Some say it is laggier than the other 3310 mice though in implementation, but I haven't tried it myself.


Mind you, i game alot but am not competitive at all.
Ergonomics is the most important thing for me in a mouse (shape, sweat handling and so)
If i can have great accuracy next to even better ergonomics thats a plus offcourse.

Will the sniper button on the G402 be a problem if you dont use it ?
(Do you hit it by accident alot ?)

Mice i had before but did not like:
CM Spawn (crappy shape for me)
MX518 (to light, feels like a toy)
Kinzu (accuracy was so crap that even i noticed it)
G9X (LOD way to high)
CM Sentinal advanced (first ype) (cursor jumping a little on small movements)
M90 (love the feel and shape but scrollwheel keeps breaking down on me)

After your input the only other mouse i was looking at was the Zowie FK1 but i seen here you will either love or hate the left/right mouse buttons.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Mind you, i game alot but am not competitive at all.
> Ergonomics is the most important thing for me in a mouse (shape, sweat handling and so)
> If i can have great accuracy next to even better ergonomics thats a plus offcourse.
> 
> Will the sniper button on the G402 be a problem if you dont use it ?
> (Do you hit it by accident alot ?)
> 
> Mice i had before but did not like:
> CM Spawn (crappy shape for me)
> MX518 (to light, feels like a toy)
> Kinzu (accuracy was so crap that even i noticed it)
> G9X (LOD way to high)
> CM Sentinal advanced (first ype) (cursor jumping a little on small movements)
> M90 (love the feel and shape but scrollwheel keeps breaking down on me)
> 
> After your input the only other mouse i was looking at was the Zowie FK1 but i seen here you will either love or hate the left/right mouse buttons.


The FK1 is a very limited and targeted product designed for FPS gaming. It weighs nothing, could be unreliable, and will cramp some hands because it is so thin in the middle. I'm a fingertip and that's why I use that. You want something with more weight to it apparently, which usually is worse from my perspective, but if that's the case, the G502 is both heavy without weights and also has the best sensor currently being manufactured. The sniper button I never hit because I'm a fingertip, but I could see it being an issue for palm guys or claw guys with bigger hands.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Will the sniper button on the G402 be a problem if you dont use it ?


It depends on your grip.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The FK1 is a very limited and targeted product designed for FPS gaming. It weighs nothing, could be unreliable, and will cramp some hands because it is so thin in the middle. I'm a fingertip and that's why I use that. You want something with more weight to it apparently, which usually is worse from my perspective, but if that's the case, the G502 is both heavy without weights and also has the best sensor currently being manufactured. The sniper button I never hit because I'm a fingertip, but I could see it being an issue for palm guys or claw guys with bigger hands.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It depends on your grip.


i use a palm grip with my fingers slightly bend.


like this but fingers raised slightly higher.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> i use a palm grip with my fingers slightly bend.
> 
> 
> like this but fingers raised slightly higher.


Then that's claw


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Then that's claw


I got the back of the mouse in my palm though, maybe its a palm grip but most mice not long enough for my size hands and so my fingers go up.
On picture's with a claw grip you dont see the palm of your hand touching the back of the mouse.

Maybe its a palmclaw


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> I got the back of the mouse in my palm though, maybe its a palm grip but most mice not long enough for my size hands and so my fingers go up.
> On picture's with a claw grip you dont see the palm of your hand touching the back of the mouse.
> 
> Maybe its a palmclaw


The definition of claw is palm without the full length of fingers touching the mouse.

If your palm rests behind the back of the mouse, it's fingertip.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The definition of claw is palm without the full length of fingers touching the mouse.
> 
> If your palm rests behind the back of the mouse, it's fingertip.


Lol, It does seem like the G502 is my kind of mouse though.
I wont be bugged by its weight either since its a little lighter then the M90 i have now.

Thanks for help


----------



## metal571

Oh yeah, G502 is awesome if you don't mind the weight. No question about that.


----------



## aLb.Strykr

G502 or Torq X10?

60 or 65 + taxes canada


----------



## a_ak57

Well, going simply by sensors, the G502 hands down. Next point of consideration would be shape since the G502 is ergonomic and the X10 is ambi, but honestly if you want an ambi mouse I'd say look elsewhere unless you've tried the X10 and love the shape. There are plenty of ambi mice with better sensors.


----------



## memske

What's your grip style? Claw(ish)
What's your sensitivity? 6
What's your maximum budget? Don't have one.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, M4/M5. Other than that don't care.
What games do you play? MMO/MOBA/FPS - All sorts, those 3 mainly. ;p
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, but not overly. Doesn't need to be 0.


----------



## lukast

*What's your grip style?* Figertip
*What's your sensitivity?* i am using the fastest pointer speed setting under w7 w/ my current microsoft wheel mouse optical 400 points per inch
*What's your maximum budget?* i'd say ~$80, but from experience and trying out more expensive as well as dirt cheap models, i've almost always prefered the cheaper ones.
*Do you want additional buttons?* yes indeed, the reason i'd like to update my current 2-button & mousewheel mouse. two extra buttons would be nice, if not more.
*What games do you play?* i don't play any games. this is mainly for an editing software (my main line of work and where i spend most time), where mouse is crucial and why i'm being quite peculiar about the purchase.
*Do you mind about prediction?* i am sorry, not sure what this refers to. :/

*Bottom line and perhaps most importantly:* I have been using the (now discontinued ?) but great and cheap -- for my purposes anyway -- $32 microsoft wheel mouse optical ( http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-D66-00029-Wheel-Mouse-Optical/dp/B00006B7HB ). i am using a figertip / claw grip and any mice wider than the one mentioned i had trouble working with. it is also very light and anything else i've tried felt rather heavy and clumsy to move around (resulting in eventual wrist pain; but too erratic when set to higher resolution so as to minimize the need to move the mouse). i don't play any games so i don't need any bells and whistles but i don't mind paying extra if i find a really good one that will last. i also need the middle wheel button to press (and rotate) easily because it is one of the most used buttons in my target application, and a stiff mousewheel button is a write-off on the off for me unfortunately.

i like to program my own macros via autohotkey, but if the model has its own application-sensitive scripting system, that's good too.

i tried logitech g600 (returned), a4tech bloody v7 (returned), logitech performance mx (returned; i learned i need a wired mouse, anything wireless i tried lacked the responsiveness i'm looking for). granted, the models i have tried may have been unsuitable from the get go as it was before i really started discovering there exist different mouse grips and that there can be more to it in general.

in an ideal world, i would love to acquire something like the old microsoft wheel mouse optical with like 4 extra programmable buttons.







right now, i feel i have been plagued with mouse fusiness. i am sure there must be something out there for me to replace a 30-dollar mouse.









thank you for your help!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukast*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Figertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* i am using the fastest pointer speed setting under w7 w/ my current microsoft wheel mouse optical 400 points per inch
> *What's your maximum budget?* i'd say ~$80, but from experience and trying out more expensive as well as dirt cheap models, i've almost always prefered the cheaper ones.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* yes indeed, the reason i'd like to update my current 2-button & mousewheel mouse. two extra buttons would be nice, if not more.
> *What games do you play?* i don't play any games. this is mainly for an editing software (my main line of work and where i spend most time), where mouse is crucial and why i'm being quite peculiar about the purchase.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* i am sorry, not sure what this refers to. :/
> 
> *Bottom line and perhaps most importantly:* I have been using the (now discontinued ?) but great and cheap -- for my purposes anyway -- $32 microsoft wheel mouse optical ( http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-D66-00029-Wheel-Mouse-Optical/dp/B00006B7HB ). i am using a figertip / claw grip and any mice wider than the one mentioned i had trouble working with. it is also very light and anything else i've tried felt rather heavy and clumsy to move around (resulting in eventual wrist pain; but too erratic when set to higher resolution so as to minimize the need to move the mouse). i don't play any games so i don't need any bells and whistles but i don't mind paying extra if i find a really good one that will last. i also need the middle wheel button to press (and rotate) easily because it is one of the most used buttons in my target application, and a stiff mousewheel button is a write-off on the off for me unfortunately.
> 
> i like to program my own macros via autohotkey, but if the model has its own application-sensitive scripting system, that's good too.
> 
> i tried logitech g600 (returned), a4tech bloody v7 (returned), logitech performance mx (returned; i learned i need a wired mouse, anything wireless i tried lacked the responsiveness i'm looking for). granted, the models i have tried may have been unsuitable from the get go as it was before i really started discovering there exist different mouse grips and that there can be more to it in general.
> 
> in an ideal world, i would love to acquire something like the old microsoft wheel mouse optical with like 4 extra programmable buttons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> right now, i feel i have been plagued with mouse fusiness. i am sure there must be something out there for me to replace a 30-dollar mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thank you for your help!


If you're comfortable with the WMO, then I'll go ahead and say you should look for a IE3.0. You can still find them around new if you search hard enough. Same sensor, but has your side buttons.

If you don't want to scrounge for a discontinued mouse, then go with the FK1. It's super light and nimble, has a 400DPI setting, and very accurate sensor. If you aren't spam clicking, which you won't do with editing, then the Huanos won't bother you at all. It's a really great option.

You can also look at the G502. Another incredibly accurate sensor with all of the options you're looking for. The knock against it is the weight, which in your line of work, probably won't be a factor. Even has extra buttons for software shortcuts if you want to use them.


----------



## Screwball

I have made my decision to go with the Zowie FK. Now the question is 3090 our 3310?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> I have made my decision to go with the Zowie FK. Now the question is 3090 our 3310?


Get the FK1, which has the superior 3310 sensor.


----------



## memske

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *memske*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw(ish)
> What's your sensitivity? 6
> What's your maximum budget? Don't have one.
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, M4/M5. Other than that don't care.
> What games do you play? MMO/MOBA/FPS - All sorts, those 3 mainly. ;p
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, but not overly. Doesn't need to be 0.


----------



## razr m3

What's your grip style? Palm/fingertip hybrid

What's your sensitivity? 6/11 in Windows and around 800 DPI +/- 200

What's your maximum budget? ~$70

Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons for back/forward would be nice.

What games do you play? Borderlands, Skyrim, some shooters, and LoL.

Do you mind about prediction? No idea.

Other relevant information: I would like an ergonomic, right-handed mouse. I currently have a ROCCAT Savu and I love it, but it's a little too small for my preference. I've had it for a while now and it's fairly weathered as well. I was looking at the Mionix NAOS 7000 or the Deathadder.


----------



## ChampN252

What's your grip style? Tips but I rather whole hand
What's your sensitivity? Don't know, but I'm gaming on a 4K monitor
What's your maximum budget? None
Do you want additional buttons? Adjustable DPI and the likes
What games do you play? FPS and RTS
Do you mind about prediction? Not clue what that is

My problem is I have big hands. Like a wide receiver. I scrolls thru some pics and most of you guys have normal/smallish hands. My hands are 9 inches. I need a good full hand or tips gaming mouse.

Regular office mouse


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *memske*


G502 could be an option for you from reading your needs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *razr m3*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm/fingertip hybrid
> 
> What's your sensitivity? 6/11 in Windows and around 800 DPI +/- 200
> 
> What's your maximum budget? ~$70
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons for back/forward would be nice.
> 
> What games do you play? Borderlands, Skyrim, some shooters, and LoL.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? No idea.
> 
> Other relevant information: I would like an ergonomic, right-handed mouse. I currently have a ROCCAT Savu and I love it, but it's a little too small for my preference. I've had it for a while now and it's fairly weathered as well. I was looking at the Mionix NAOS 7000 or the Deathadder.


If you like Savu, why not considering Roccat Kone XTD Optical? Shape is similar to Kone Pure/Savu, but larger in size.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChampN252*
> 
> What's your grip style? Tips but I rather whole hand
> What's your sensitivity? Don't know, but I'm gaming on a 4K monitor
> What's your maximum budget? None
> Do you want additional buttons? Adjustable DPI and the likes
> What games do you play? FPS and RTS
> Do you mind about prediction? Not clue what that is
> 
> My problem is I have big hands. Like a wide receiver. I scrolls thru some pics and most of you guys have normal/smallish hands. My hands are 9 inches. I need a good full hand or tips gaming mouse.
> 
> Regular office mouse
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


G502, Kone XTD Optical, Naos 7000, DeathAdder, Rival... but I don't know, if that's large enough for your hands. "Weight-wise" G502 is probably the best option and gives you good performance (all of them shouldn't be bad). Shape-wise Naos 7000 would be not too bad either. Guess you'll have to go to a Computer/Gaming Store and try out yourself. As you said most people here probably have small-medium'ish hands, so, it's kind of tricky for you...


----------



## ChampN252

I really like the g502. I had the 602 and I wonder if its better?


----------



## Wind

What's your grip style?
*Palm*

What's your sensitivity?
*40cm/360 (low)
*
What's your maximum budget?
*100 CDN
*
Do you want additional buttons?
*don't really care if I have them or not, only really use a side mouse button as PTT on VOIP
*
What games do you play?
*CS:GO, TF2, L4D. mainly FPS's
*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Hate it, want a very accurate sensor
*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Previous mice: Alienware Tactx, MX518, Roccat Savu, CM Storm spawn, Sensei, more recently the G502 (which feels pretty comfortable for me to hold, its just too heavy)

I would like an ergonomic right handed mouse, would prefer light weight. don't care too much about extra features, such as lighting or macros. Low LOD would be nice. Mainly care about tracking and high IPS (swing the mouse really fast in tf2 as scout)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> *40cm/360 (low)
> *
> What's your maximum budget?
> *100 CDN
> *
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *don't really care if I have them or not, only really use a side mouse button as PTT on VOIP
> *
> What games do you play?
> *CS:GO, TF2, L4D. mainly FPS's
> *
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Hate it, want a very accurate sensor
> *
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Previous mice: Alienware Tactx, MX518, Roccat Savu, CM Storm spawn, Sensei, more recently the G502 (which feels pretty comfortable for me to hold, its just too heavy)
> 
> I would like an ergonomic right handed mouse, would prefer light weight. don't care too much about extra features, such as lighting or macros. Low LOD would be nice. Mainly care about tracking and high IPS (swing the mouse really fast in tf2 as scout)


Really light? FK1. Not sure how well that would work for palm but it is worth a shot. Otherwise, G402 is a very good alternative to the G502 that is much lighter, but still isn't 90g like the FK1. Both mice are capable of 5+ m/s.


----------



## Wind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Really light? FK1. Not sure how well that would work for palm but it is worth a shot. Otherwise, G402 is a very good alternative to the G502 that is much lighter, but still isn't 90g like the FK1. Both mice are capable of 5+ m/s.


I have been trying to do some reading on the G402 and what confuses me is that the max IPS is 2.7 but uses some sort of gyroscope sensor to compensate? I do like the idea of this mouse being more simplistic and lighter, but I don't know about the idea of the gyroscope.. perhaps I just don't know too much about it, maybe someone can fill me in?

I had considered the FK1, hear nothing but good things about it. but I live in canada and it's too expensive


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> I have been trying to do some reading on the G402 and what confuses me is that the max IPS is 2.7 but uses some sort of gyroscope sensor to compensate? I do like the idea of this mouse being more simplistic and lighter, but I don't know about the idea of the gyroscope.. perhaps I just don't know too much about it, maybe someone can fill me in?
> 
> I had considered the FK1, hear nothing but good things about it. but I live in canada and it's too expensive


If you ask the hardcore guys of the forum, they'll tell you it's crap. I really don't understand because it always worked great for me, but I prefer a different shape. In real world use, I found it to be as accurate as any optical they've ever released before. Logitech's own CPate has specifically stated multiple times that the gyro + AM010 combo this is using is within the same specifications of speed-related tracking variance as their G400 (3090). The gyro seamlessly takes over if you exceed 2.7 m/s because it is just as accurate as the optical sensor at those speeds, and below those speeds the AM010 is used for tracking as it is much more accurate than the gyro at lower speeds.


----------



## Wind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you ask the hardcore guys of the forum, they'll tell you it's crap. I really don't understand because it always worked great for me, but I prefer a different shape. In real world use, I found it to be as accurate as any optical they've ever released before. Logitech's own CPate has specifically stated multiple times that the gyro + AM010 combo this is using is within the same specifications of speed-related tracking variance as their G400 (3090). The gyro seamlessly takes over if you exceed 2.7 m/s because it is just as accurate as the optical sensor at those speeds, and below those speeds the AM010 is used for tracking as it is much more accurate than the gyro at lower speeds.


Thanks for the input. Seems to me on there is a general bias against anything that is new or different. I'll definitely take a look into the G402, hopefully I can pick one up if it goes on sale. I was able to snag my G502 for the same price of a G402.

Are there any other suggestions? How are SS/mionix/roccats offerings?

I had been doing a little bit of reading on the Rival but it seems that there are a bunch of QC issues and Steelseries is a PITA to deal with. I do like logitech's customer support and the warranties they have on thier products. Can't even keep track of the amount of times i had my mx518 replaced for free by them


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> Thanks for the input. Seems to me on there is a general bias against anything that is new or different. I'll definitely take a look into the G402, hopefully I can pick one up if it goes on sale. I was able to snag my G502 for the same price of a G402.
> 
> Are there any other suggestions? How are SS/mionix/roccats offerings?
> 
> I had been doing a little bit of reading on the Rival but it seems that there are a bunch of QC issues and Steelseries is a PITA to deal with. I do like logitech's customer support and the warranties they have on thier products. Can't even keep track of the amount of times i had my mx518 replaced for free by them


I mean Mionix is very good, if you don't lift too much the Naos 7000 may just be even better than the G402 for you. There's also the Kone Pure Military but that's too small for palm most likely.


----------



## razr m3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> G502 could be an option for you from reading your needs.
> If you like Savu, why not considering Roccat Kone XTD Optical? Shape is similar to Kone Pure/Savu, but larger in size.


I did actually look into that one. I had one question about it though. Do you know if the LED on the back of the Kone XTD Optical is changeable like the Savu? My color scheme is white, blue, and black and I'd love for the mouse to have a blue accent.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Whether or not he can palm the KPM comfortably depends on the size and thickness of his hands. I can almost do it and my hands are pretty large and thin. So if his hands are smaller or thicker than mine (which is almost certain) he should be ok.

@memske I would say KPM or FK1, or an MLT04 mouse.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *razr m3*
> 
> I did actually look into that one. I had one question about it though. Do you know if the LED on the back of the Kone XTD Optical is changeable like the Savu? My color scheme is white, blue, and black and I'd love for the mouse to have a blue accent.


You mean that "Color Flow Stripe" thing/option? Hmmm.... I had a Kone Pure Optical. It wasn't possible, but you can set "pulsing" for one colour. Maybe the XTD (Optical) can do that. I don't know, sorry.


----------



## razr m3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You mean that "Color Flow Stripe" thing/option? Hmmm.... I had a Kone Pure Optical. It wasn't possible, but you can set "pulsing" for one colour. Maybe the XTD (Optical) can do that. I don't know, sorry.


It's all good! I was just curious. Thanks for the help/suggestions though! I'm having trouble finding anyone that actually has the XTD Optical in stock though. Amazon has one reseller for $178


----------



## ChampN252

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Whether or not he can palm the KPM comfortably depends on the size and thickness of his hands. I can almost do it and my hands are pretty large and thin. So if his hands are smaller or thicker than mine (which is almost certain) he should be ok.
> 
> @memske I would say KPM or FK1, or an MLT04 mouse.


I can't find an actually specs or sell page on either mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChampN252*
> 
> I can't find an actually specs or sell page on either mouse.


jew wot mate?

You can't find the KPM or FK1 on sale at any online stores in your area (are you the canadian guy)? The microsoft mice are on amazon, ebay, and aliexpress.com


----------



## visadi

1.Hello guys, I want to buy a gaming mouse and I don't know what to choose.I hope you can help me.

What's your grip style?
Palm grip.
What's your sensitivity?
usually 800 DPI.
What's your maximum budget?
120$
Do you want additional buttons?
I think yes but I don't know for sure.
What games do you play?
Especially FPS games.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *visadi*
> 
> 1.Hello guys, I want to buy a gaming mouse and I don't know what to choose.I hope you can help me.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> usually 800 DPI.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 120$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I think yes but I don't know for sure.
> What games do you play?
> Especially FPS games.


Logitech G402, Mionix Naos 7000, SteelSeries Rival.


----------



## MasterBash

Few questions, which mouse has the better tracking between G1, G100 and G100s? Keep in mind that I use Windows 8.1 so I cant oc the usb.

What is lightest mouse for palm or claw grip with a 3310 sensor? I am fine with both a Deathadder/G502/G400 or whatever similar shape.

I am fine with my DA2013/G502 (modded) but I am always looking to try new cool things. =P


----------



## metal571

Don't know about the first question.

Second question: probably the G402 or EC1.


----------



## visadi

Between Mionix Avior/Naos and DA2013 which is the best?


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *visadi*
> 
> Between Mionix Avior/Naos and DA2013 which is the best?


They are both good, so you need to choose between shapes.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> What is lightest mouse for palm or claw grip with a 3310 sensor? I am fine with both a Deathadder/G502/G400 or whatever similar shape.


From what I gather, the Kone Pure Military, Zowie FK1 and Corsair M45 are all 90g. Between those I'd probably recommend either the FK1 or KPM, with you probably liking the KPM more since it's eronomic like the mice you listed.


----------



## visadi

Which one is better for palm grip?


----------



## metal571

The Naos and DA 2013 are good for palm grip, as is the Rival.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *visadi*
> 
> 1.Hello guys, I want to buy a gaming mouse and I don't know what to choose.I hope you can help me.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> usually 800 DPI.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 120$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I think yes but I don't know for sure.
> What games do you play?
> Especially FPS games.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Don't know about the first question.
> 
> Second question: probably the G402 or EC1.


He said 3310 sensor...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *visadi*
> 
> Between Mionix Avior/Naos and DA2013 which is the best?


I've read bad things about the DA2013's sensor. The shape is also pretty terrible for me, but others like it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *visadi*
> 
> Which one is better for palm grip?


Of the mice you listed, the Naos.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Few questions, which mouse has the better tracking between G1, G100 and G100s? Keep in mind that I use Windows 8.1 so I cant oc the usb.
> 
> What is lightest mouse for palm or claw grip with a 3310 sensor? I am fine with both a Deathadder/G502/G400 or whatever similar shape.
> 
> I am fine with my DA2013/G502 (modded) but I am always looking to try new cool things. =P


I'm dumb. For claw with 3310 you pretty much have got the Avior 7000, Naos 7000, FK1, M45, and KPM. I suppose if your hands are large enough you could claw the Rival.


----------



## MasterBash

Ya, I guess it would be between the M45, KPM and FK1 for palm or claw grip, as those are the lightest mouse. There isnt much info about the M45 reliability though.

Still wondering between the G1, G100 and G100s. I would also love to try out a very lightweight mouse, although my grip would be different with those mice. I am sure it would fly around while playing League of Legends.

Then I will decide if I want to stay with the G502, DA2013, G1 variant or one of the 3310 sensor mouse after further tests.


----------



## 95329

*What's your grip style?*
I thinks its between claw and palm. I really like MX518, G400 design.

*What's your sensitivity?*
I used to use 2000DPI but recently I switched to a lower ~1000DPI

*What's your maximum budget?*
Doesn't really matter as long as its below 100€.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Back/forward thumb buttons are a must. Everything else is annoying to me. IE the G502s (my current mouse) sniper button annoys the crap out of me.

*What games do you play?*
I play CS:GO quite seriously but not competitively by any means. Other than that it doesn't matter much which mouse I have as long as it's comfortable (I play a large variety of games..).

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Can't really say. I haven't gotten to test a mouse with and without prediction.

*Other relevant information:*
I've been looking for Zowie FK1 but I'm worried of the switches as I've heard they're hard to push. Can I use this mouse comfortably on desktop? I do quite a bit desktop work on my computer as well and the mouse has to perform well on both (desktop/gaming).

*EDIT:* Somehow managed to submit early


----------



## DivineDark

Unless you're playing a click heavy game like Dota2, Lol, or HotS, then you'll be fine. I couldn't imagine the buttons causing you any grief on the desktop, and a lot of folks say they like the huano/FK1 shell combo for counterstrike.


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Unless you're playing a click heavy game like Dota2, Lol, or HotS, then you'll be fine. I couldn't imagine the buttons causing you any grief on the desktop, and a lot of folks say they like the huano/FK1 shell combo for counterstrike.


No Dota or LoL for me









Some games I play quite often:

CS:GO
Kerbal Space Program
Minecraft
Civilization
Company of Heroes
The list goes on.

But yeah, the G502 switches were very light in my opinion. I still like them though.


----------



## DivineDark

You would probably be perfectly happy with the FK1.


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> You would probably be perfectly happy with the FK1.


Then I shall get one and see how it works for me


----------



## Erikdayo

What's your grip style? unsure, to be honest. I can try taking a picture when I am at home. People seem to say that the FK1 is meant for a claw grip so I guess it's sort of that? Can't say I really poke at the mouse buttons like I see some claw grip players do though..
What's your sensitivity? usually 800 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $200
Do you want additional buttons? Just a standard mouse + the forward and back thumb buttons. Can have more but not necessary
What games do you play? Mostly FFXIV in which I use a Naga. But for everything else I use a regular mouse. RPG, MOBA, FPS, etc.
Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer not too much
Hand size: ~19cm length. ~21cm circumference.

I've tried out a few mice over the past few months. Deathadder, G502, Rival, Avior 7000, FK1. Perhaps more. After all this I've come to the conclusion that of the mice I've tried the FK1 is the only one that really feels great in my hand. Not that the others aren't perfectly usable, but I do not find them as comfortable. They tend to feel like big hunks of plastic in my hand pressing against it. With the FK1 I don't get that feeling likely because of the relatively. small size and shape.

If there are two flaws with the FK1 it would be the heavy clicks and imperfect scroll wheel. Scrolling down seems spot on, but scrolling up is prone to a small amount of error. When I say heavy clicks on the FK1 I don't mean it as a major complaint. Still I can see where it would be fatiguing or take some getting used to in games like LoL, dota2, and other games where you may be spamming clicks for movement.

An acceleration free optical sensor is nice, but I am open to suggestions with laser sensors as well as I am thinking more about the feel of the mouse and its' buttons than 100% perfect precision.

Thanks!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? unsure, to be honest. I can try taking a picture when I am at home. People seem to say that the FK1 is meant for a claw grip so I guess it's sort of that? Can't say I really poke at the mouse buttons like I see some claw grip players do though..
> What's your sensitivity? usually 800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $200
> Do you want additional buttons? Just a standard mouse + the forward and back thumb buttons. Can have more but not necessary
> What games do you play? Mostly FFXIV in which I use a Naga. But for everything else I use a regular mouse. RPG, MOBA, FPS, etc.
> Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer not too much
> Hand size: ~19cm length. ~21cm circumference.
> 
> I've tried out a few mice over the past few months. Deathadder, G502, Rival, Avior 7000, FK1. Perhaps more. After all this I've come to the conclusion that of the mice I've tried the FK1 is the only one that really feels great in my hand. Not that the others aren't perfectly usable, but I do not find them as comfortable. They tend to feel like big hunks of plastic in my hand pressing against it. With the FK1 I don't get that feeling likely because of the relatively. small size and shape.
> 
> If there are two flaws with the FK1 it would be the heavy clicks and imperfect scroll wheel. Scrolling down seems spot on, but scrolling up is prone to a small amount of error. When I say heavy clicks on the FK1 I don't mean it as a major complaint. Still I can see where it would be fatiguing or take some getting used to in games like LoL, dota2, and other games where you may be spamming clicks for movement.
> 
> An acceleration free optical sensor is nice, but I am open to suggestions with laser sensors as well as I am thinking more about the feel of the mouse and its' buttons than 100% perfect precision.
> 
> Thanks!


There's not much out there if that's your preference in terms of shape and weight and the Avior didn't already wrok for you. You could give the vanilla Sensei a shot if you have a hard mat on hand. If not, get an MM400 or G440 to go with it.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? unsure, to be honest. I can try taking a picture when I am at home. People seem to say that the FK1 is meant for a claw grip so I guess it's sort of that? Can't say I really poke at the mouse buttons like I see some claw grip players do though..
> What's your sensitivity? usually 800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $200
> Do you want additional buttons? Just a standard mouse + the forward and back thumb buttons. Can have more but not necessary
> What games do you play? Mostly FFXIV in which I use a Naga. But for everything else I use a regular mouse. RPG, MOBA, FPS, etc.
> Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer not too much
> Hand size: ~19cm length. ~21cm circumference.
> 
> I've tried out a few mice over the past few months. Deathadder, G502, Rival, Avior 7000, FK1. Perhaps more. After all this I've come to the conclusion that of the mice I've tried the FK1 is the only one that really feels great in my hand. Not that the others aren't perfectly usable, but I do not find them as comfortable. They tend to feel like big hunks of plastic in my hand pressing against it. With the FK1 I don't get that feeling likely because of the relatively. small size and shape.
> 
> If there are two flaws with the FK1 it would be the heavy clicks and imperfect scroll wheel. Scrolling down seems spot on, but scrolling up is prone to a small amount of error. When I say heavy clicks on the FK1 I don't mean it as a major complaint. Still I can see where it would be fatiguing or take some getting used to in games like LoL, dota2, and other games where you may be spamming clicks for movement.
> 
> An acceleration free optical sensor is nice, but I am open to suggestions with laser sensors as well as I am thinking more about the feel of the mouse and its' buttons than 100% perfect precision.
> 
> Thanks!


I wouldn't normally recommend this, but maybe you should have a look at the Steelseries Xai or Sensei. They have laser sensors with inbuilt acceleration which is extremely frustrating if you are a competitive FPS player, but aside from this the sensors track well and the shape is generally regarded as being extremely comfortable.


----------



## DivineDark

Exactly. Buy a Sensei, install the software just long enough to set your settings, uninstall it, win... Great mouse, and in my opinion, the perfect shape. Sooooo comfy.

You might also look at a hard mouse pad or a hybrid pad like an Artisan Hein or Hayate if the acceleration bothers you on a cloth pad. The others minimize it to an extent.


----------



## Erikdayo

Thanks for the rather unified suggestions.









I use an Artisan Shiden and have a Razer Destructor on hand as well. Always open to more mats.









The acceleration shouldn't be an issue. Not just because I don't really play FPS competitively (usually just single player stuff) but also because I can just switch over to my FK1 if I feel like the acceleration is going to be an issue for any particular game. That is one mouse I have no plans on unloading. Well, at least until the next revision.

Is there any reason to choose one version of Sensei over the other? I see a regular and a RAW version.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> Thanks for the rather unified suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use an Artisan Shiden and have a Razer Destructor on hand as well. Always open to more mats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The acceleration shouldn't be an issue. Not just because I don't really play FPS competitively (usually just single player stuff) but also because I can just switch over to my FK1 if I feel like the acceleration is going to be an issue for any particular game. That is one mouse I have no plans on unloading. Well, at least until the next revision.
> 
> Is there any reason to choose one version of Sensei over the other? I see a regular and a RAW version.


The vanilla sensei is heavier, has a better cord, better buttons, ability to change settings without the software, TERRIBLE software.

The RAW has a better coating, lighter, and can use SSEngine 3 (much better than SSE2)


----------



## metal571

I wonder if we could ever recommend the MLG edition. Back when I tested it, it had a little stiffer clicks than the regular Sensei and they are rated for a longer life. It's got the 9800, but the heavy lag inherent in the early SROM is probably no longer a factor as I'm sure they've updated the firmware since I last tried it.


----------



## Erikdayo

For the software I will likely just set the DPI to 800 and uninstall, if that is possible. No profiles necessary. I don't really switch it up for different games on any of my mice.

I see that the regular Sensei is metal? Sounds cold like the G502 scroll wheel.. So I am likely to go with the RAW. Any reason to go glossy over matte? Preference I suppose. Pretty much every mouse I've used over the past however many years is matte. I have to admit that I like the look of the 'Heat Orange' variation the best, but it's got a glossy finish.


----------



## scionix

Looking for a fingertip-grip mouse, I currently use the CM Spawn (and absolutely love the shape), but the surface finish and mushy side buttons have me yearning for something with a little higher build quality.

What's your grip style? Fingertip. Heel of the palm is on the mousepad and I only touch the mouse with fingertips. 5 points of contact.

What's your sensitivity? Medium to Low. I'm not sure the exact sensitivity I use, but doing a half-circle movement by pivoting around my palm on the pad is a 180 for me.

What's your maximum budget? I would prefer under 100$ but it's not a deal breaker if the mouse is nice enough.

Do you want additional buttons? Just need 2 bindable side buttons and I'm set. Don't care about macros and whatnot.

What games do you play? DOTA2, FPS, MMOS, pretty much everything.

Do you mind about prediction? Yes, a sensor without prediction/acceleration would be preferred.

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Don't care about the frills, the shape and the build of the mouse are most important. Would prefer a rubber/soft-touch finish, not a huge fan of the matte plastic on the spawn. Don't need to
adjust the weight, don't need a specific cord, don't care about led's and ****, just want a solid feeling mouse.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> For the software I will likely just set the DPI to 800 and uninstall, if that is possible. No profiles necessary. I don't really switch it up for different games on any of my mice.
> 
> I see that the regular Sensei is metal? Sounds cold like the G502 scroll wheel.. So I am likely to go with the RAW. Any reason to go glossy over matte? Preference I suppose. Pretty much every mouse I've used over the past however many years is matte. I have to admit that I like the look of the 'Heat Orange' variation the best, but it's got a glossy finish.


Glossy vs matte actually provides a difference in grip. Glossy is better for those with dry hands, matte obviously the opposite. If you've been using matte mice and have been fine with them, it's best to just stick to that IMO.


----------



## Erikdayo

I don't think I've had an issue with either. Not going just off mice but also controllers, phones, and portable gaming devices. I feel like I prefer the look of and usually get a better grip with matte or rubberized. Whatever it is called. But I also don't recall any major issues with glossy. I mainly just dislike the look of fingerprints all over glossy finishes.

My hands are on the more dry side. At least currently. I live in New England so it's been rather chilly lately.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> For the software I will likely just set the DPI to 800 and uninstall, if that is possible. No profiles necessary. I don't really switch it up for different games on any of my mice.
> 
> I see that the regular Sensei is metal? Sounds cold like the G502 scroll wheel.. So I am likely to go with the RAW. Any reason to go glossy over matte? Preference I suppose. Pretty much every mouse I've used over the past however many years is matte. I have to admit that I like the look of the 'Heat Orange' variation the best, but it's got a glossy finish.


The vanilla Sensei is not metal. That's just a semi gloss coating. The RAW is built with crappier components.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scionix*
> 
> Looking for a fingertip-grip mouse, I currently use the CM Spawn (and absolutely love the shape), but the surface finish and mushy side buttons have me yearning for something with a little higher build quality.
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip. Heel of the palm is on the mousepad and I only touch the mouse with fingertips. 5 points of contact.
> 
> What's your sensitivity? Medium to Low. I'm not sure the exact sensitivity I use, but doing a half-circle movement by pivoting around my palm on the pad is a 180 for me.
> 
> What's your maximum budget? I would prefer under 100$ but it's not a deal breaker if the mouse is nice enough.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Just need 2 bindable side buttons and I'm set. Don't care about macros and whatnot.
> 
> What games do you play? DOTA2, FPS, MMOS, pretty much everything.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, a sensor without prediction/acceleration would be preferred.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Don't care about the frills, the shape and the build of the mouse are most important. Would prefer a rubber/soft-touch finish, not a huge fan of the matte plastic on the spawn. Don't need to
> adjust the weight, don't need a specific cord, don't care about led's and ****, just want a solid feeling mouse.


Avior 7000.


----------



## Erikdayo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The vanilla Sensei is not metal. That's just a semi gloss coating. The RAW is built with crappier components.


I guess I was confused because the Steelseries website says it is metal.

http://steelseries.com/us/products/mice/steelseries-sensei-raw

Perhaps they just mean some sort of metallic looking finish?


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> I guess I was confused because the Steelseries website says it is metal.
> 
> http://steelseries.com/us/products/mice/steelseries-sensei-raw
> 
> Perhaps they just mean some sort of metallic looking finish?


Metal-ish looking plastic to be correct. IIRC they removed part about "metal shell" because someone - oh, boy - decided to see what Steelseries used for top shell. Or it was because first batches were so crappy that metal paint fell off.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> Metal-ish looking plastic to be correct. IIRC they removed part about "metal shell" because someone - oh, boy - decided to see what Steelseries used for top shell. Or it was because first batches were so crappy that metal paint fell off.


Probably both... Can you imagine how heavy that bastard would have been if it did actually use an aluminum shell. You could use it like a weapon.


----------



## ChampN252

I saw the Rival today and it's a large mouse. Perfect for the big handed person.


----------



## Op1e

What's your grip style?
- Fingertip grip
What's your sensitivity?
- IG sensitivity 2.4 , im looking for a good mouse for low sensitivity
What's your maximum budget?
- No problem with the price.
Do you want additional buttons?
- I dont know , i haven't had a mouse with extra buttons, i think is ok as long as isnt more than 2 or 3.
What games do you play?
- Mostly cs go and tf2,
Do you mind about prediction?
- Yes , i want my aim as precise as possible.
Other relevant information:
- My hand is kinda big , 7.5 inch (19 cm) , i basically want a mouse thats good for my grip style and hand size without any acceleration or angle snapping, good for fps in general.


----------



## Erikdayo

Ended up ordering a Sensei Raw with a glossy finish. Thoughts tomorrow. The lighter weight seemed like a good upside. If I change my mind Amazon will understand..







Curious how it'll affect my grip over the rubberized finish. I did notice when I got home that my grip on my rubberized mice wasn't the best til my hands warmed up a bit. Guess I never really noticed before. Never disliked the glossy finish on the G502 either. So I'm sure I'll be fine with both glossy and rubberized.

If I like it enough perhaps I'll try the regular Sensei when they finally upgrade the software to SSE3. From a SS rep post I saw on Reddit it could be quite a while longer.

Hope I am finally done trying out mice.









Also grabbed a 9HD because I don't mind having a decent stable of pads to mess around with.


----------



## Crymore13

*What's your grip style?*
Claw/Finger
*What's your sensitivity?*
18.595 inches/360º
*What's your maximum budget?*
80$
*Do you want additional buttons?*
minimal 5 buttons(mouse1~mouse5)
*What games do you play?*
CS:GO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
minimal angle snapping/prediction, minimal acceleration.

*Other relevant information:*
Low weight(95g-)
low LOD
scroll durable, All my mice had problems in scroll wheel(less CM Recon)/switch of the middle button.

I already used sensei raw/dA 2013/Kana v2/ Kinzu v2/Xai/dA 3.5g/MS 1.1/CM Recon


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw/Finger
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 18.595 inches/360º
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 80$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> minimal 5 buttons(mouse1~mouse5)
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> minimal angle snapping/prediction, minimal acceleration.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Low weight(95g-)
> low LOD
> scroll durable, All my mice had problems in scroll wheel(less CM Recon)/switch of the middle button.
> 
> I already used sensei raw/dA 2013/Kana v2/ Kinzu v2/Xai/dA 3.5g/MS 1.1/CM Recon


FK1, Kone Pure Military, Avior 7000.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> Ended up ordering a Sensei Raw with a glossy finish. Thoughts tomorrow. The lighter weight seemed like a good upside. If I change my mind Amazon will understand..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious how it'll affect my grip over the rubberized finish. I did notice when I got home that my grip on my rubberized mice wasn't the best til my hands warmed up a bit. Guess I never really noticed before. Never disliked the glossy finish on the G502 either. So I'm sure I'll be fine with both glossy and rubberized.
> 
> If I like it enough perhaps I'll try the regular Sensei when they finally upgrade the software to SSE3. From a SS rep post I saw on Reddit it could be quite a while longer.
> 
> Hope I am finally done trying out mice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also grabbed a 9HD because I don't mind having a decent stable of pads to mess around with.


If you're going laser, 9HD is ideal. I'd still say just get the regular Sensei though, the RAW is just...less.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw/Finger
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 18.595 inches/360º
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 80$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> minimal 5 buttons(mouse1~mouse5)
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> minimal angle snapping/prediction, minimal acceleration.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Low weight(95g-)
> low LOD
> scroll durable, All my mice had problems in scroll wheel(less CM Recon)/switch of the middle button.
> 
> I already used sensei raw/dA 2013/Kana v2/ Kinzu v2/Xai/dA 3.5g/MS 1.1/CM Recon


Avior 7000, Kone Pure Military, Zowie FK1.


----------



## scionix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Avior 7000.


that looks like a great mouse, but I'm not sure about the shape; it seems too long. I really like the spawn/g9x style stubby mice because I have tiny girly hands.

I guess what I want is a spawn with an rubber finish and not crappy side buttons, but as far as I know they're not planning on updating it anytime soon


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scionix*
> 
> that looks like a great mouse, but I'm not sure about the shape; it seems too long. I really like the spawn/g9x style stubby mice because I have tiny girly hands.
> 
> I guess what I want is a spawn with an rubber finish and not crappy side buttons, but as far as I know they're not planning on updating it anytime soon


kone pure military is probably closest current good mouse to a spawn .. maybe m45 or g502 (fits similar grip but is narrow and heavy)


----------



## metal571

M45 we're still not sure about on the sensor implementation. The KPM is probably your best bet then.


----------



## scionix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> M45 we're still not sure about on the sensor implementation. The KPM is probably your best bet then.


Thanks, I'll give it a look. Maybe my local fry's has one in stock I can hold.

Did not a lot of people buy the spawn? I feel like it's kind of an unexplored niche with that form factor; the g9x/spawn style mice are almost always crappy wireless/battery mice, you'd think someone would make a really nice one for gaming.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scionix*
> 
> Thanks, I'll give it a look. Maybe my local fry's has one in stock I can hold.
> 
> Did not a lot of people buy the spawn? I feel like it's kind of an unexplored niche with that form factor; the g9x/spawn style mice are almost always crappy wireless/battery mice, you'd think someone would make a really nice one for gaming.


i had a xornet and liked it a lot.. unfortunately it started double clicking within a month.. returned it and went through a very lengthy and annoying rma of which i had to pay for shipping.. finally got my replacement over a month later only to discover it was DOA .. (could click but not move the cursor) .. asked for another rma and they told me i had to pay shipping again.. all while taking about 5-7 days to reply to my emails each time.

not worth it when the mouse itself was only 20 bucks. the shape and feel of the mouse was great though


----------



## a_ak57

The M45 is vaguely similar to the G9X with precision grip, but it's not nearly as short/wide as the Spawn so if that's what you liked about it, I'm not sure how much you'll like the M45. If you just liked the general claw shape you might like it though. I'd say look more at the KPM in either case though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Avior 7000.


What's your reasoning behind recommending the avior7000 over the FK1? FK1 can be used for all 3 grips while the avior7000 cannot. And the FK1 is lighter, making it better for fingertip grip. Even you yourself switched from the avior to the FK1.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChampN252*
> 
> I saw the Rival today and it's a large mouse. Perfect for the big handed person.


No, it certainly is not.

The front is extremely narrow which means it cramps many of our hands.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Op1e*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - Fingertip grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> - IG sensitivity 2.4 , im looking for a good mouse for low sensitivity
> What's your maximum budget?
> - No problem with the price.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - I dont know , i haven't had a mouse with extra buttons, i think is ok as long as isnt more than 2 or 3.
> What games do you play?
> - Mostly cs go and tf2,
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - Yes , i want my aim as precise as possible.
> Other relevant information:
> - My hand is kinda big , 7.5 inch (19 cm) , i basically want a mouse thats good for my grip style and hand size without any acceleration or angle snapping, good for fps in general.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw/Finger
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 18.595 inches/360º
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 80$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> minimal 5 buttons(mouse1~mouse5)
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> minimal angle snapping/prediction, minimal acceleration.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Low weight(95g-)
> low LOD
> scroll durable, All my mice had problems in scroll wheel(less CM Recon)/switch of the middle button.
> 
> I already used sensei raw/dA 2013/Kana v2/ Kinzu v2/Xai/dA 3.5g/MS 1.1/CM Recon


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What's your reasoning behind recommending the avior7000 over the FK1? FK1 can be used for all 3 grips while the avior7000 cannot. And the FK1 is lighter, making it better for fingertip grip. Even you yourself switched from the avior to the FK1.
> No, it certainly is not.
> 
> The front is extremely narrow which means it cramps many of our hands.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


I know. But he wanted something solid feeling and as far as I can tell the Avior is much better in build quality or at least in quality control. The FK1 could take him more than one unit to get a good one. It depends, I think it's worth the hassle if you get a bad FK1 to return and get a good one


----------



## Erikdayo

Good call on everyone that recommended the Sensei. Shape seems to be very similar to my beloved FK1 but larger. I certainly still prefer my FK1, but this Sensei may be the 2nd most comfortable mouse I have tried lately. As for the glossy finish compared to my usual rubberized finish mice... It's alright. It certainly sticks to my hand better but not in any meaningful way. I don't consider the stickiness much of a plus. If anything it's slightly bothersome. Appearance wise I prefer rubberized/matte. The scroll wheel works flawlessly. Better than my FK1, for sure.

The DPI button makes this mouse slightly more useful for communication as I use it for push to talk. Then again, I also have a foot pedal so no big deal.

I think my main gripe, besides that it would be that much better with an optical sensor, is the wideness. I prefer how narrow my FK1 is. I can feel how wide the back end of this mouse is compared to my FK1. Thankfully it doesn't bother me much, if at all. On the Avior 7000 the wide bottom did bother me a bit.

This 9HD pad is also pretty nice. I can't say that I am that picky, but I prefer the shape of this one over my Destructor 2. Mainly because the Destructor 2 is too wide for my rather small table. Certainly not as smooth as my Shiden so eh. We'll see. I like both.


----------



## FedeVi

I definitely need your help guys, after hours and hours spent trying to find the best mouse for my needs (fps mostly) i am more confused then ever...
Overall good sensor performance + comfortable shape is what i'm really looking for.

What's your grip style?

I'd say a "relaxed" claw grip, to give you a better idea i'm using a roccat kova+ and have medium to big hands (~19 cm or 7.5 inches), i grab the mouse with my whole fingertips and most of my pinky and thumb gripping only on the lateral backside of the mouse. I use the wrist to move the mouse around.

What's your sensitivity?

Right now i'm using 800dpi, more importantly in csgo it takes 17cm/360°, if i'm ever going to change it i will lower it.

What's your maximum budget?

Let's say no more than 70€, consider that here in europe stuff cost generally more than in the US so basically <70$.

Do you want additional buttons?

I'm fine without extra buttons, 1 or 2 would be a plus though.

What games do you play?

Mainly CS:GO and DotA

Do you mind about prediction?

Yes i do, if i'm going to buy a mouse i want it to be as precise and "flawless" as possible.

Other relevant information:

Only optical mouse, i don't want to deal with any kind of acceleration
Other preferences, no dealbreakers: possibly matte finish, lod <2mm, omron switches, ambidextrous shape would be nice but i don't mind trying an ergonomic mouse if it's possible to grip it like i do.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedeVi*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Post
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely need your help guys, after hours and hours spent trying to find the best mouse for my needs (fps mostly) i am more confused then ever...
> Overall good sensor performance + comfortable shape is what i'm really looking for.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> I'd say a "relaxed" claw grip, to give you a better idea i'm using a roccat kova+ and have medium to big hands (~19 cm or 7.5 inches), i grab the mouse with my whole fingertips and most of my pinky and thumb gripping only on the lateral backside of the mouse. I use the wrist to move the mouse around.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Right now i'm using 800dpi, more importantly in csgo it takes 17cm/360°, if i'm ever going to change it i will lower it.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Let's say no more than 70€, consider that here in europe stuff cost generally more than in the US so basically <70$.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I'm fine without extra buttons, 1 or 2 would be a plus though.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> Mainly CS:GO and DotA
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes i do, if i'm going to buy a mouse i want it to be as precise and "flawless" as possible.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Only optical mouse, i don't want to deal with any kind of acceleration
> Other preferences, no dealbreakers: possibly matte finish, lod <2mm, omron switches, ambidextrous shape would be nice but i don't mind trying an ergonomic mouse if it's possible to grip it like i do.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help!


What about Savu? It's pretty decent for fingertip grip, lightweight and so on. But if you're using multicoloured pads (like Goliathus) there is going to be trouble with LOD. If not, then you should be fine.


----------



## FedeVi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Torongo*
> 
> What about Savu? It's pretty decent for fingertip grip, lightweight and so on. But if you're using multicoloured pads (like Goliathus) there is going to be trouble with LOD. If not, then you should be fine.


I have mixed feelings about the Savu, it should work decently for me but i dont like the coating, it deteriorates too fast. I had to remove all the coating from my Kova+ after about 1 year of usage, i want to try products from a different company.
Also where i live i can find the rival for 10€ more and the zowie FK1 for 15€ more, do you think either of these mice could fit me?
Other mice i was looking at are the Kana V2, Cm storm recon and corsair M45.

Do you think i can base my evaluation of these mice on the idea that they have a similar sensor quality or some of them are better/worst than the others?


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedeVi*
> 
> I have mixed feelings about the Savu, it should work decently for me but i dont like the coating, it deteriorates too fast. I had to remove all the coating from my Kova+ after about 1 year of usage, i want to try products from a different company.
> Also where i live i can find the rival for 10€ more and the zowie FK1 for 15€ more, do you think either of these mice could fit me?
> Other mice i was looking at are the Kana V2, Cm storm recon and corsair M45.
> 
> Do you think i can base my evaluation of these mice on the idea that they have a similar sensor quality or some of them are better/worst than the others?


Which coating, No-Sweat or soft-touch? I heard rumors that No-Sweat wears out after a month. But on my Savu there's no signs of wear.

I'm sure that FK1 will suit you. But it got Huanos that a little bit more stiff than Omrons. Not sure about Rival though.


----------



## sieungau96

I have DA2013 and FK1 right now. I like the FK1's button, scroll wheel and simplicity. But as a long time DA user (own every DA generation so far), the Zowie's small size is the deal breaker. The small side buttons is also annoy.

So is there any mouse that basically a FK1 with DA size (or bigger). SS Rival vs Mionix NAOS 7000???

* My DA2013 scroll click is unresponsive lately. Other than that it's still fine so i can wait for upcoming mouse like the next Zowie EC1


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FedeVi*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely need your help guys, after hours and hours spent trying to find the best mouse for my needs (fps mostly) i am more confused then ever...
> Overall good sensor performance + comfortable shape is what i'm really looking for.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> I'd say a "relaxed" claw grip, to give you a better idea i'm using a roccat kova+ and have medium to big hands (~19 cm or 7.5 inches), i grab the mouse with my whole fingertips and most of my pinky and thumb gripping only on the lateral backside of the mouse. I use the wrist to move the mouse around.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Right now i'm using 800dpi, more importantly in csgo it takes 17cm/360°, if i'm ever going to change it i will lower it.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Let's say no more than 70€, consider that here in europe stuff cost generally more than in the US so basically <70$.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I'm fine without extra buttons, 1 or 2 would be a plus though.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> Mainly CS:GO and DotA
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes i do, if i'm going to buy a mouse i want it to be as precise and "flawless" as possible.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Only optical mouse, i don't want to deal with any kind of acceleration
> Other preferences, no dealbreakers: possibly matte finish, lod <2mm, omron switches, ambidextrous shape would be nice but i don't mind trying an ergonomic mouse if it's possible to grip it like i do.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## mndx

@sieungau96

Wait for the EC1 with 3310, should be next in Zowie lineup


----------



## Farih

Have a G502 for a few days now after getting it recommendated by you guys.

First i had to use the weights because it felt so light and flimsy.
After a few days i can use it without weights now but still feels a bit flimsy compared to my previous M90.

Cursor feeling/accuracy feels like it went up though.
Shape is perfect for my hands and grip.

After getting a bit used (still getting more and more used by the day) i can say its a step-up from the M90 with cursor feeling/accuracy, working with the mouse in general.

Mouse does feel a whole lot cheaper and of lower quality then the M90 though, only time will tell if it actually is.

If this G502 will last its definitly an upgrade over the M90.

Thanks in getting me this mouse guys


----------



## a_ak57

I think that's the first time I've seen someone call the G502 light.


----------



## metal571

Yeah the G502 is one of the heaviest mice available right now.

Without weights.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Have a G502 for a few days now after getting it recommendated by you guys.
> 
> *First i had to use the weights because it felt so light and flimsy*.


----------



## a_ak57

Honestly though, I would imagine his opinion isn't in the minority outside of internet forums considering Logitech's penchant for releasing heavy mice, often with the option to make them even heavier. They wouldn't do it if it didn't make business sense i.e. reflect the market's interests. In fact, it'd actually go along with the notion that most people game at super high sensitivity so you'd probably want that weight to make sure you don't move an extra few millimeters i.e. 30 degrees.


----------



## metal571

Yeah the G502 is one of the heaviest mice available right now.

Without weights.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*


LOL


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Honestly though, I would imagine his opinion isn't in the minority outside of internet forums considering Logitech's penchant for releasing heavy mice, often with the option to make them even heavier. They wouldn't do it if it didn't make business sense i.e. reflect the market's interests. In fact, it'd actually go along with the notion that most people game at super high sensitivity so you'd probably want that weight to make sure you don't move an extra few millimeters i.e. 30 degrees.


I don't know how they would have discovered that the majority likes heavy mice... people could have been buying heavy mice for other reasons. Like the heavy mice also had the shape or build quality people wanted.

I had been playing CS competitively for many years before I bought the G5, and at that point I had no idea whether I wanted a heavy or light mouse. I tested both with and without the weights, and I think I eventually decided the mouse was too heavy even without the weights.

I really doubt casuals who've put in much less time would have a better idea of what they want.

Rather, I think weights in Logitech's mice appeal to people's sense of "ooo that seems neat, lets try that".


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't know how they would have discovered that the majority likes heavy mice... people could have been buying heavy mice for other reasons. Like the heavy mice also had the shape or build quality people wanted.
> 
> I had been playing CS competitively for many years before I bought the G5, and at that point I had no idea whether I wanted a heavy or light mouse. I tested both with and without the weights, and I think I eventually decided the mouse was too heavy even without the weights.
> 
> I really doubt casuals who've put in much less time would have a better idea of what they want.
> 
> Rather, I think weights in Logitech's mice appeal to people's sense of "ooo that seems neat, lets try that".


Most people are casual gamers and when they see adjustable weights they just see another cool feature or something that could be considered a check box that has been ticked. But you already knew that.


----------



## Hola Como Estas

new mouse that has better sensor that the Logitech G502? or better mouse that the Logitech G502?


----------



## Erikdayo

Maybe I'm weird, but I prefer less customization. I prefer being presented peripherals that the maker is confident about. They should be confident about the size and weight. I remember older Nagas having interchangeable pieces for the thumb/pinky rests. And then there are mice like the G502 that are already probably too heavy without any weights giving you options to add more. I'm sure plenty of people appreciate those options, but to me it seems like the maker wasn't confident in their offering so they added gimmicks to make more sales.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hola Como Estas*
> 
> new mouse that has better sensor that the Logitech G502? or better mouse that the Logitech G502?


Best modern sensor available. No such thing as a better mouse, mice vary so much that you have to specify very exactly what you are looking for. There is no such thing as perfect.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erikdayo*
> 
> Maybe I'm weird, but I prefer less customization. I prefer being presented peripherals that the maker is confident about. They should be confident about the size and weight. I remember older Nagas having interchangeable pieces for the thumb/pinky rests. And then there are mice like the G502 that are already probably too heavy without any weights giving you options to add more. I'm sure plenty of people appreciate those options, but to me it seems like the maker wasn't confident in their offering so they added gimmicks to make more sales.


I feel the same way. Zowie just gets it right out of the box, why bother changing anything?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hola Como Estas*
> 
> new mouse that has better sensor that the Logitech G502? or better mouse that the Logitech G502?


For me the kone pure military sensor was better, but a few others have said they thought the FK1 was better than the KPM. So there's some variance either in the sensors themselves or people's personal opinions.

It's true there is no perfect mouse at the moment. And since people's experiences and opinions vary so greatly, we unfortunately have to test each mouse ourselves. I tested and reviewed some of the most recent/popular ones here.


----------



## scionix

Ok so I posted earlier about basically wanting a more sturdy version of a spawn/xornet style mouse, i.e. really small and great for fingertip. I was thinking about trying the Kone Pure Military, Corsair M65, etc, as they are on the smaller side, but then I was taken aback by a...razer product?!

From looking at pictures, the ouroboros actually looks like it can get pretty close to the spawn shape, with a really short length and wide midpoint for touching with ring/pinkie fingers, which is just how I like a mouse to be shaped! It also has the side buttons pushed way towards the back! But I've almost never given razer products a chance, and the thing is also wireless. Does anyone have any experience with the mouse?


----------



## metal571

Ouroboros?

No. Absolutely never buy that thing.


----------



## scionix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Ouroboros?
> 
> No. Absolutely never buy that thing.


welp. I'm starting to think the mouse I want just doesn't exist. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope CM updates the spawn.


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scionix*
> 
> welp. I'm starting to think the mouse I want just doesn't exist. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope CM updates the spawn.


Let me tell you that this feeling will never go away







.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skar*
> 
> Let me tell you that this feeling will never go away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


But we must all hope.


----------



## metal571

That tends to happen. lol.

There's the M45 and KPM but I'm kind of tired to go back to look at whatever you posted originally.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Honestly though, I would imagine his opinion isn't in the minority outside of internet forums considering Logitech's penchant for releasing heavy mice, often with the option to make them even heavier. They wouldn't do it if it didn't make business sense i.e. reflect the market's interests. In fact, it'd actually go along with the notion that most people game at super high sensitivity so you'd probably want that weight to make sure you don't move an extra few millimeters i.e. 30 degrees.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't know how they would have discovered that the majority likes heavy mice... people could have been buying heavy mice for other reasons. Like the heavy mice also had the shape or build quality people wanted.
> 
> I had been playing CS competitively for many years before I bought the G5, and at that point I had no idea whether I wanted a heavy or light mouse. I tested both with and without the weights, and I think I eventually decided the mouse was too heavy even without the weights.
> 
> I really doubt casuals who've put in much less time would have a better idea of what they want.
> 
> Rather, I think weights in Logitech's mice appeal to people's sense of "ooo that seems neat, lets try that".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Most people are casual gamers and when they see adjustable weights they just see another cool feature or something that could be considered a check box that has been ticked. But you already knew that.


Buying a mouse with weights make's one casual ?
Liking a mouse with some meat on it make's one casual ?

Not that i am a pro gamer but what happened to personal preference's ?
I am not a sheep following every hype on the internet. (thats probably why i dont have a Shiit Magni







)
I dont look at boxes for gimmicks and high numbers either.

I just dont like light and flimsy, light and flimsy doesnt work well with me being big and Dutch.

The G502 gets recommended alot in this thread, but when people get it and they dont share the sheep hurdle view of it being to heavy your casual ?
Very strange reasoning









I hope i see this in the wrong way...........


----------



## metal571

Then name an esports player that actually uses the G502.

If you ask me, lower weight is objectively better as it takes less momentum to get the mouse moving and to stop it. Both professional CS and MOBA players prefer lighter mice.

But just wait about 5 minutes, someone will come on here and attack me.


----------



## ThornTwist

Not everyone is a professional gamer, but everyone's a critic. I don't understand why this is even a thing, but pro gamers get paid to use products made by certain companies; they're called endorsements. Razer is one of the key players there; don't know if they have been mentioned yet. Also there really isn't any momentum on a mouse pad, just resistance. When you think about how strong your hand, wrist and arm are compared to a mouse its not like its difficult to stop a mouse.

Edit: it also really depends on what you're doing with the mouse. I suppose if the mouse is heavy enough there might be some momentum. If all you want a good mouse for is gaming then I suppose weight might be an issue, but I've never had any problems with heavier mice, namely the RAT 5 with all weights on it. I have a logitech mouse now, a G600 and I love it. It really not all that heavy either. Its heavier than my Nage Hex, but its not like its a tank or anything.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Then name an esports player that actually uses the G502.
> 
> If you ask me, lower weight is objectively better as it takes less momentum to get the mouse moving and to stop it. Both professional CS and MOBA players prefer lighter mice.
> 
> But just wait about 5 minutes, someone will come on here and attack me.


So E-Sports players run the gaming market huh ? They decide whats good and bad for everyone else.
Yep personal preference is out of the window here.

Everyone get the hardware E-sports players use, everything else is not worthy... your personal preferences dont matter !

Why is it so wrong to disagree with the top posters in this thread ?
Elitist Jerk much ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Not everyone is a professional gamer, but everyone's a critic. I don't understand why this is even a thing, but pro gamers get paid to use products made by certain companies; they're called endorsements. Razer is one of the key players there; don't know if they have been mentioned yet. Also there really isn't any momentum on a mouse pad, just resistance. When you think about how strong your hand, wrist and arm are compared to a mouse its not like its difficult to stop a mouse.


This is a thing now because we threw personal preferences out of the window.
Why ? because "pro's" say so.


----------



## a_ak57

The G502 is _always_ recommended with an asterisk about the weight. And the people who get it generally don't complain about the weight because of the simple logic that the people who'd be bothered by the weight decide not to buy it. Stop throwing around the word sheep, you aren't an individual any more than the rest of us. You're freaking out about a single word that one poster used and now deeming the rest of us a circlejerk? Get over yourself.


----------



## ThornTwist

Please read my edit.


----------



## metal571

The difference between using even the FK1 and Avior is a night and day difference. One of the absolute primary reasons I am using the FK1 now is the weight difference alone. It is a game changer in itself and makes aim effortless on the FK1 by comparison. I'm saying I know I'm not the only one who does better in games with lighter mice, that's all it is. I clearly stated that I feel that low weight is a necessity, never did I attack anyone. Jeeze. We always recommend the G502 with a big asterisk about the weight for good reason. Also, some people don't even care how well they do, it also depends on how competitive you are as well. Lots of factors.


----------



## Farih

I have gotten over myself, i really dont care much whatever is said.
I am not trying to pick a fight, i just like a heated discussion, and no, i dont remove post/lock/ban or whatever as a mod so you can safely say anything you want.

Just try to make clear one's opinion is not anothers one and they dont have to be.
E-sports players and alike do not make up whats good and bad to use. (all that sponsored gear from Razor must be good stuff then ?)

Why cant some like a heavier mouse ?
Why does it make you casual ?
Why would you be worse of a player ?

If you look through the last few pages of this thread its dominating with some people's preferences/statements/thoughts and the rest doesnt seem to matter.

Yes some are way more knowledge about mise but you cant disregard personal preferences.

If you would stick yourselfs in my body you would prolly want a heavier mouse to


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The difference between using even the FK1 and Avior is a night and day difference. One of the absolute primary reasons I am using the FK1 now is the weight difference alone. It is a game changer in itself and makes aim effortless on the FK1 by comparison. I'm saying I know I'm not the only one who does better in games with lighter mice, that's all it is. I clearly stated that I feel that low weight is a necessity, never did I attack anyone. Jeeze. We always recommend the G502 with a big asterisk about the weight for good reason. Also, some people don't even care how well they do, it also depends on how competitive you are as well. Lots of factors.


So your still maintaining that lighter weight mice improve performance? Interesting. I personally like heavier mice if for nothing else just because I prefer to feel how much I have moved the mouse and extra weight does that for me. I still maintain that all that really matters is what you want in a mouse -not what other people just decide is the best for everyone.


----------



## ThornTwist

*clears throat* Anyway, I'm in the market for a new mouse pad. Don't even know how one mouse pad is different than the others so maybe someone can help me out with this?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So your still maintaining that lighter weight mice improve performance? Interesting. I personally like heavier mice if for nothing else just because I prefer to feel how much I have moved the mouse and extra weight does that for me. I still maintain that all that really matters is what you want in a mouse -not what other people just decide is the best for everyone.


Oh not arguing there, just making a case for my opinion. I would never force people to buy something, but rather make them aware of things they would potentially not like.

As an asterisk to my own argument I actually recommend heavier mice for people who insist on playing with higher mouse sensitivities, especially in FPS. It steadies your hand a bit more. But for lower sensitivities I feel most would find it a bit too tiring.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh not arguing there, just making a case for my opinion. I would never force people to buy something, but rather make them aware of things they would potentially not like.
> 
> As an asterisk to my own argument I actually recommend heavier mice for people who insist on playing with higher mouse sensitivities, especially in FPS. It steadies your hand a bit more. But for lower sensitivities I feel most would find it a bit too tiring.


Good to see that was cleared up then.


----------



## ShakaBrah

*What's your grip style?*
80% Claw, 20% palm (thumb remains 65% palm 35% claw, while index and middle fingers are claw like on the mouse left and right click buttons.

*What's your sensitivity?*
2.62 In Game. 6/11 windows, Raw Input on, Acceleration Off. Not sure of DPI (would like what best DPI to use with those settings)

*What's your maximum budget?*
$80
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Clickable Scroll wheel. Other buttons are a bonus but not at all needed

*What games do you play?*
Want this mainly for CS:GO, but also play BF3, LoL, Rome II, Arma III

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Not sure if I should use this or not. Maybe one that has both? Been using a Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000 S7J-00001 not sure what that has.

*Other relevant information:*
Braided cord would be better, since IMO gives more of a free feeling movement. Basically just dont want a stiff corded mouse. (Do NOT want wireless)

Hope this gives everyone enough information. Would love additional suggestions on how to improve my settings, etc. since I am trying to get much better at CS:GO. Currently back and forth between Golda Nova I and II


----------



## metal571

FK1, KPM.

To answer your other question, 400 CPI.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShakaBrah*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 80% Claw, 20% palm (thumb remains 65% palm 35% claw, while index and middle fingers are claw like on the mouse left and right click buttons.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShakaBrah*
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 2.62 In Game. 6/11 windows, Raw Input on, Acceleration Off. Not sure of DPI (would like what best DPI to use with those settings)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> $80
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Clickable Scroll wheel. Other buttons are a bonus but not at all needed
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Want this mainly for CS:GO, but also play BF3, LoL, Rome II, Arma III
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not sure if I should use this or not. Maybe one that has both? Been using a Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000 S7J-00001 not sure what that has.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Braided cord would be better, since IMO gives more of a free feeling movement. Basically just dont want a stiff corded mouse. (Do NOT want wireless)
> 
> Hope this gives everyone enough information. Would love additional suggestions on how to improve my settings, etc. since I am trying to get much better at CS:GO. Currently back and forth between Golda Nova I and II


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## MaximilianKohler

@Farih I agree that the format of this suggestion thread is flawed. I've seen some really terrible recommendations. Not everyone has used every mouse, and everyone has their own personal biases (including me).

That's why I try to give information rather than recommendations.

The mouse market right now is full of shoddy products. You really have to inform yourself about which flaws would bother you the least. If there were ideal mice available most of us would not be on this forum.

Personally, I think wanting a heavy mouse is related to casuals for a few reasons:

Competitive players play longer and more intensely. A heavy mouse would cause faster fatigue. A heavy mouse is harder to control. A heavy mouse is especially inappropriate for grips like fingertip and games like Starcraft. Competitive gamers tend to have more experience with a variety of mice since it's something they care more about than casuals.


----------



## metal571

The other problem is that the OP questions are antiquated. I'd be more than happy enough to take over and update the questions to more relevant and specific ones. Mouse prediction is still a primary question on there and is essentially nonexistent in modern sensors available now. I've already messaged the mods a couple times about taking over the OP so it can be updated. They won't let me for whatever reason. Some people are just resistant to improvement of one of our most popular stickies. It boggles my mind and drives me nuts. That, and the fact that the OP hasn't logged in for almost 2 freaking years.

Anyone else feel this OP needs to be updated?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, I agree.

IMO the best thing would be a list like this:


- Microsoft WMO 1.1
- Microsoft IMO 1.1
- Microsoft IME 3.0
- Zowie FK
- Zowie AM
- Zowie FK1
- Zowie EC1 CL
- Zowie EC1 eVo
- Zowie EC2 CL
- Zowie EC2 eVo
- Razer Deathadder 3G
- Razer Deathadder 3.5G
- Razer Deathadder 2013
- Razer Abyssus
- Logitech G400
- Logitech G400s
- Logitech G502
- Steelseries Kana V2
- Steelseries Rival
- Mionix Avoir 7000
- Cooler Master Storm Spawn
- Cooler master Storm Alcor
- Roccat Savu
- Roccat Kone Pure Optical
- Roccat Kone Pure Military
- Mad Catz R.A.T. 3
- Corsair M45

With pictures so people can see which mouse might fit their grip the best. And a good description of the difference between the 3 grips.

And maybe even other info about the mice like which ones have high LOD or other things like that.

And put the sensor, max dpi, native dpi, etc. there too.


----------



## metal571

I think we had something like a Most Recommended list going at one point, not sure what happened to that.

I mean more specific questions for people to answer but obviously having a centralized summary of our most recommended mice would also be something to link to.


----------



## ShakaBrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, I agree.
> 
> IMO the best thing would be a list like this:
> 
> 
> - Microsoft WMO 1.1
> - Microsoft IMO 1.1
> - Microsoft IME 3.0
> - Zowie FK
> - Zowie AM
> - Zowie FK1
> .


Have you heard of people buying fake remakes of these mice on AliExpress? For example, they have different sensor in them... especially the Microsoft intelli mice?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShakaBrah*
> 
> Have you heard of people buying fake remakes of these mice on AliExpress? For example, they have different sensor in them... especially the Microsoft intelli mice?


I've heard rumors. I don't think I've seen anyone post that the mouse they got was a fake.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I've heard rumors. I don't think I've seen anyone post that the mouse they got was a fake.


Unfortunately they're not just rumors... http://www.overclock.net/t/1345353/does-anyone-know-if-this-is-a-fake-microsoft-wmo-or-does-anyone-know-how-i-could-tell#post_18974858

And since that info is out for everyone to see, I'm pretty sure that the scammers have perfected their fake mice. Honestly I wouldn't trust anyone except takasta.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Hmm, so aliexpress is actually a chinese company.... They do guarantee returns if the item is not as expected though. I guess it might be a bit risky. I'd never buy from takasta in a million years though.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Hmm, so aliexpress is actually a chinese company.... They do guarantee returns if the item is not as expected though. I guess it might be a bit risky. I'd never buy from takasta in a million years though.


LOL, why? takasta is trustworthy. On the other hand, 'AliExpress' absolutely isn't (I've heard plenty of horror stories).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> LOL, why? takasta is trustworthy. On the other hand, 'AliExpress' absolutely isn't (I've heard plenty of horror stories).


Yeah, I don't know much about aliexpress. I've just seen that they have a lot of coated MLT04 mice there.

I don't like takasta's reviews. They're fluff that look like manufacturers sent him mice to release favorable/neutral reviews. He makes every new mouse sound like it's some godsend. Pure marketing and hype. Then he uses the viewers he gets to sell $30 mice for $200.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't like takasta's reviews. They're fluff that look like manufacturers sent him mice to release favorable/neutral reviews. He makes every new mouse sound like it's some godsend. Pure marketing and hype. Then he uses the viewers he gets to sell $30 mice for $200.


If you'd actually seen his reviews then you would know that he buys all the mice with money from his own pocket... and what you said about him liking every mouse isn't even remotely true. Seems to me that you just don't like him for subjective/personal reasons.

And anyway... what does his reviewing on YT have to do with him being a trustworthy seller? If you check his eBay page you will see that he has 99.7% positive feedback (his 0.3% negative feedback is all BS btw) and thousands of transactions... so it's pretty obvious that you're talking smack.


----------



## phaseshift

Deathadder Chroma vs Deathadder? What do you guys think?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> If you'd actually seen his reviews then you would know that he buys all the mice with money from his own pocket... and what you said about him liking every mouse isn't even remotely true. Seems to me that you just don't like him for subjective/personal reasons.
> 
> And anyway... what does his reviewing on YT have to do with him being a trustworthy seller? If you check his eBay page you will see that he has 99.7% positive feedback (his 0.3% negative feedback is all BS btw) and thousands of transactions... so it's pretty obvious that you're talking smack.


Yeah, yeah. I didn't want to get into some drama. And it's not about being a trustworthy seller. It's about ripping people off by selling $30 mice for $200.


----------



## Maximillion

Takasta was pretty critical of the DA Chroma in his recent review/comparison to the '13. He seems pretty honest in all his reviews, after all they're what he personally feels about the mice. He's even admitted he's a SS fanboy and in several reviews he's stated certain mice aren't really worth buying. I don't think he's some shill. He might not get as technical/hardcore as others but I don't think that's the lane he's trying to be in. And I just checked his store, all the prices seem reasonable (at the moment, at least).


----------



## hza

Don't discuss with Kohler, he's always right! Just kidding, but sometimes I feel Max is somewhat weird though. ^^


----------



## ThornTwist

So yeah, anyone have any suggestions for a mouse pad?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So yeah, anyone have any suggestions for a mouse pad?


Cloth, PureTrak Talent, QcK Heavy, Taito. Hard, MM400, MM600, 9HD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Don't discuss with Kohler, he's always right! Just kidding, but sometimes I feel Max is somewhat weird though. ^^


He's gotten less biased and so have I.


----------



## hza

I saw that, don't worry. ^^


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I haven't watched any of his reviews in a while, and I just checked his seller page and all the prices seem normal, so there's that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So yeah, anyone have any suggestions for a mouse pad?


Supermat used to be the best AND cheapest option, but there are reports of the quality degrading recently. If you're in the US I'd recommend you try to find one in your local electronics store so you can return it easily if it's bad quality.


----------



## MyNameIsLars

I've done some research and come up with the conclusion that im choosing/considering between Kone XTD Laser or Optical (for the moment).

I don't really think i need an MMO-mouse because i might get bored with WoD in a month or two, and with that in mind a mouse that can give me some extra buttons during that time and is versatile. I've done some research and it looks like most Youtubers reviewing the mouse started to use it as they're primary mouse. But most notably they we're almost all BF4 players.

So i'm wondering about the sensors in the Kone XTD laser and Optical:

i will of course try out the shape, but from what I've seen some professional FPS player on the microsoft forums claimed that he went from the MX518 (optical and my old mouse) and transitioned into Kone XTD laser and didn't really get any hard transition, well he seemed satisfied and claimed that the Kone XTD laser was the only upgrade he had during a long time, he said the laser was so "smooth" and didn't notice any accuracy drop going to the Kone XTD laser, he didn't even wanted to risk trying the optical version to check if it was more accurate or not.

So far I have not really seen any comparison between the two sensors.

Optical: I have also read on the forum (this one in particular) about the optical version, it seems like its using a sensor that's not very liked from the deathadder 2013 with some kind of smoothing, i don't know what that is, but i'm wondering if it would greatly affect general mouse usage, or if it will only affect certain situations (moving the mouse really fast etc). But I have also read that the sensor in both the deathadder 13 and kone XTD laser (both the sensors were looking at) are very accurate according to one Top Mice Gaming List (i think it was the Deathadder 13 not sure). So it's a lot of different information. But i read also on some thread on this forum about the Kone XTD optical and some people asked the ones getting the mouse if the smoothing was present in the kone XTD optical, or if it was because of Razer's firmware with the DA13 or if it was the sensor itself, but it didn't really seem to get answered in the thread.

Laser: Pretty much the same with the laser i'm wondering wich one to pick so, it seems that inconsistency is more frequent with laser mice, but i have also read one article that the difference between laser and optical is minimal, i guess when it comes to performance (besides surface and DPI i guess). But according to another source they claimed that optical mice don't use as many buttons as laser (why that is seems like a mystery to me, if he looked at the mice available, or if it's a limitation in the optical sensor technology). I have also read that the sensor in the Kone XTD Laser is also not very well liked, so i'm wondering why that is, the same thing here; if it's notable in general mouse usage or in certain situations.

I don't really know what questions to ask myself and others choosing between the two sensors, so if you could think of anything i'm missing out on it would be appreciated.

Well i'm also wondering if sensor is very much personal preference, but i kinda need to know which one is the more suitable to pick w/o actually plugging in the mouse in my computer.

Well if both the sensors are not very good i would also like to know.

I guess im wondering what you guys would recommend between the two sensors because i can only pick one. I'dont think any customer service from any online store in sweden would let me try both the sensors and return the mouse i don't pick (well i haven't asked, but from what I've read they don't (komplett.se)). I'm not so sure about this.

So that's my situation and yes sorry for my bad english


----------



## a_ak57

If you're interested in the Kones, get the Kone Pure Military. Better sensor than either the XTD or Optical.


----------



## Trull

I wouldn't bother with the Kones unless you absolutely have to have one and don't care about burning money.

If that's not the case, just get a G100s.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I wouldn't bother with the Kones unless you absolutely have to have one and don't care about burning money.
> 
> If that's not the case, just get a G100s.


I'd never consider a 3 button mouse. And there are a lot more who feel the same.

@Farih What do you think about our suggestions to update the OP?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'd never consider a 3 button mouse. And there are a lot more who feel the same.


Welp, with the poster's english being that bad (no offense), I thought he meant he didn't want any extra buttons, and I'm still not sure if he wants them or not.

Regardless of what he said, this isn't about you, lol.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I wouldn't bother with the Kones unless you absolutely have to have one and don't care about burning money.


What the actual f did i just read?

Edit: they may be expensive, but not overpriced.


----------



## hza

I watched Roccat over the years. Their Products (especially mice) improved a lot over the years. Without having tried Roccat's version of the S3988 (sensor in DA2013) I could imagine their implementation could be better than Razer's, but that's just a guess, however. For some reason they seem to be able to implement sensors, firmwares and whatnot "better" than most or they seem to care more about it at least. About the Kone Pure (Military) suggestion. Keep in mind that mouse is smaller than a Kone XTD... and of course lighter. You have no computer stores like idk MediaMarkt or something near you? A mouse is something very personal. If you can't adapt to the shape of a mouse, the best sensor in the world means nothing.


----------



## MyNameIsLars

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Welp, with the poster's english being that bad (no offense), I thought he meant he didn't want any extra buttons, and I'm still not sure if he wants them or not.
> 
> Regardless of what he said, this isn't about you, lol.


Well i meant i needed some extra buttons temporarily for World of Warcraft Warlords of Draenor until i get bored. I thought the Easy Shift function would provide me with that until i get bored with WoW. I mean and yes i understand that my grammar is not the very best, but i hope you can understand what i'm typing right now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I watched Roccat over the years. Their Products (especially mice) improved a lot over the years. Without having tried Roccat's version of the S3988 (sensor in DA2013) I could imagine their implementation could be better than Razer's, but that's just a guess, however. For some reason they seem to be able to implement sensors, firmwares and whatnot "better" than most or they seem to care more about it at least. About the Kone Pure (Military) suggestion. Keep in mind that mouse is smaller than a Kone XTD... and of course lighter. You have no computer stores like idk MediaMarkt or something near you? A mouse is something very personal. If you can't adapt to the shape of a mouse, the best sensor in the world means nothing.


I was about to reply to a ak57 that the size is different but then i read your post. Most people with big hands seem to find the kone XTD comfortable.

I have tried some mice for about 22 days ago when i visited a city, the mice i tried where g700s and it felt very plastic and like the whole mouse was not very sturdy, solid.

I did also try the g502s proteus core but like most people reviewing it i found it abit strange, especially the scroll wheel. But at that time i didn't know that it had one of the best sensors on the market according to many.

I'm going to visit the closest city in a not too distant future. But right now with all this new information i don't really know what to look for.

If the kone XTD really is that bad.

the reasoning behind me thinking about the kone xtd is the shape, some said it was similiar to the shape of the MX518, aswell as the Easy Shift function.

My english must be really poor if my message in my long post didn't get across (ah well).

Well now i agree with a recommended mice list in this thread.


----------



## scionix

Anybody know anything about this mouse? Seems to have the spawn-like shape with a different coating/side buttons, which is what I'm interested in. I'm assuming it's got some garbage sensor or something seeing as it's 50 dollars and has GAYMER design cues all over it, but I figured I'd ask.

MSI Interceptor ds200:

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Gaming-Mouse-Interceptor-DS200/dp/B00LSRW3U4/ref=sr_1_125?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1414684853&sr=1-125

e: found out it uses the avago 9800, which has baked in positive acceleration, but can supposedly be fixed with firmware? anyone use a mouse with that sensor?


----------



## denman

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* low-medium?
*What's your maximum budget?* I'd like to keep it under $100, but I can go to $150.
*Do you want additional buttons?* Prefer at least two on the thumbside
*What games do you play?* MOBAs / MMO's, some FPS.
*Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer little to none.
*Other relevant information:* I currently have the G700. I was about to order the Zowie FK1 because it looks like a good lightweight mouse, but I decided against it. I would like to find a wireless mouse that has a charging dock. I would like something lightweight and a matte finish is prefered.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *denman*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* low-medium?
> *What's your maximum budget?* I'd like to keep it under $100, but I can go to $150.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Prefer at least two on the thumbside
> *What games do you play?* MOBAs / MMO's, some FPS.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Prefer little to none.
> *Other relevant information:* I currently have the G700. I was about to order the Zowie FK1 because it looks like a good lightweight mouse, but I decided against it. I would like to find a wireless mouse that has a charging dock. I would like something lightweight and a matte finish is prefered.


Don't go wireless. You could do the Avior 7000 since you can use both the right and left side buttons. Lots of extra buttons and a good sensor, and not that heavy.


----------



## denman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Don't go wireless. You could do the Avior 7000 since you can use both the right and left side buttons. Lots of extra buttons and a good sensor, and not that heavy.


What's wrong with wireless? The G700 is wireless and I haven't bad a problem in the one and a half years I've been using it. I just want something that has a dock instead of plugging the cord in. Also, I strongly dislike buttons on the right side of the mouse, I do not use them and find they just get in the way. As for 'extra buttons' I only need two on the left side and would rather not have a ton that I never intend to use (the G700 has too many for me actually)


----------



## metal571

Because most wireless mice have laser sensors which won't serve you too well in FPS unless you're on a hard mat.

The only wireless mouse we recommend on here is the G602.


----------



## denman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Because most wireless mice have laser sensors which won't serve you too well in FPS unless you're on a hard mat.
> 
> The only wireless mouse we recommend on here is the G602.


I probably should of just left FPS off the list I guess. I play FPSs maybe oncr a month. I mainly play MOBA and MMOs. Let's just ignore FPS completely.


----------



## metal571

Optical will help you with every game, but if we're gonna go wireless and laser is not an issue...I want to recommend the Sensei Wireless but their support is awful. Otherwise that would work pretty well.

Not an expert on this area. I'm the low sens FPS guy with super light optical mice and gigantic cloth pads.

Still the G602 could work pretty well for you, very well in fact.


----------



## treav0r

im not looking for a mouse, but a new mousepad:

7. Hard or cloth?

cloth

8. Rough or smooth?

i prefer smooth and with good control, like the qck

9. Which size approximately?

450x400mm

10. What's your maximum budget?

50€

i want a Qck heavy, but if there are other pads, that are simmilar, let me know


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> im not looking for a mouse, but a new mousepad:
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth?
> 
> cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth?
> 
> i prefer smooth and with good control, like the qck
> 
> 9. Which size approximately?
> 
> 450x400mm
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 50€
> 
> i want a Qck heavy, but if there are other pads, that are simmilar, let me know


Might be a stupid question, but if you're saying that you "want a QCK Heavy" and a "450x400mm" size (your words), then why not just get a QCK Heavy?


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Might be a stupid question, but if you're saying that you "want a QCK Heavy" and a "450x400mm" size (your words), then why not just get a QCK Heavy?


i just wanted to know if there is a BETTER pad out there...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> i just wanted to know if there is a BETTER pad out there...


The supermat is better in my opinion. But I've heard it's hard to find in Europe. You might try ebay or look in local electronics stores for something similar.


----------



## Urinat0r

I'm a pretty big fan of my current CM Storm Spawn mouse, but it's starting to show signs of age and wear. I've been looking at the Zowie FK1 and CM Storm Alcor. Recommendations? I play a lot of FPSes, especially CS:GO


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Urinat0r*
> 
> I'm a pretty big fan of my current CM Storm Spawn mouse, but it's starting to show signs of age and wear. I've been looking at the Zowie FK1 and CM Storm Alcor. Recommendations? I play a lot of FPSes, especially CS:GO


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## towzone

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi for CS: GO, 1000 dpi normally. Default sensitivity for windows.
*What's your maximum budget?* $80
*Do you want additional buttons?* I currently have a Naga and I don't use the numberpad. A few extra buttons wouldn't be an issue though.
*What games do you play?* LoL, CS:Go, WoW rarely
*Do you mind about prediction?* I don't want mouse prediction
*Other relevant information:* I'm using a 2012 Naga now and I don't like it very much. The way I grip it is awkward and I don't think it's made for my grip style (fingertip, big hand). I also don't use the number pad on the site at all.
I'm considering the CM Storm Spawn, but it seems to be out of stock in a lot of places (or overpriced). Are there any good fingertip alternatives?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *towzone*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi for CS: GO, 1000 dpi normally. Default sensitivity for windows.
> *What's your maximum budget?* $80
> *Do you want additional buttons?* I currently have a Naga and I don't use the numberpad. A few extra buttons wouldn't be an issue though.
> *What games do you play?* LoL, CS:Go, WoW rarely
> *Do you mind about prediction?* I don't want mouse prediction
> *Other relevant information:* I'm using a 2012 Naga now and I don't like it very much. The way I grip it is awkward and I don't think it's made for my grip style (fingertip, big hand). I also don't use the number pad on the site at all.
> I'm considering the CM Storm Spawn, but it seems to be out of stock in a lot of places (or overpriced). Are there any good fingertip alternatives?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


FK1, Avior 7000. The former you should ONLY buy if you can easily return to Amazon since the scroll wheel being defective/working is a crapshoot right now, but it's a better mouse than the Avior for CS if you get a working one.


----------



## towzone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> FK1, Avior 7000. The former you should ONLY buy if you can easily return to Amazon since the scroll wheel being defective/working is a crapshoot right now, but it's a better mouse than the Avior for CS if you get a working one.


The FK1 reminds me a lot of the Steelseries Sensei. I was considering the Steelseries Sensei Raw (Rubberized Black). Do you think that one would fit my needs?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *towzone*
> 
> The FK1 reminds me a lot of the Steelseries Sensei. I was considering the Steelseries Sensei Raw (Rubberized Black). Do you think that one would fit my needs?


Absolutely 100 percent do NOT get a Sensei.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Absolutely 100 percent do NOT get a Sensei.


Your quote caught my eye, why do you seem so negative about SteelSeries Sensei? Just curious to know why so many seem to like the mouse yet a few here really despise it so much.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Your quote caught my eye, why do you seem so negative about SteelSeries Sensei? Just curious to know why so many seem to like the mouse yet a few here really despise it so much.


It's because it has built-in acceleration, which is not ideal for anyone who plays FPS. It's not like it's a bad mouse, but when there are other choices that are better there's not really any reason to buy it unless you are absolutely in love with its specific shape and similarly shaped mice just can't do it for you.


----------



## towzone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's because it has built-in acceleration, which is not ideal for anyone who plays FPS. It's not like it's a bad mouse, but when there are other choices that are better there's not really any reason to buy it unless you are absolutely in love with its specific shape and similarly shaped mice just can't do it for you.


Appreciate the input. Which would you recommend? Keep in mind that I'm looking for something for claw/fingertip grip.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's because it has built-in acceleration, which is not ideal for anyone who plays FPS. It's not like it's a bad mouse, but when there are other choices that are better there's not really any reason to buy it unless you are absolutely in love with its specific shape and similarly shaped mice just can't do it for you.


Took the words out of my mouth.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *towzone*
> 
> Appreciate the input. Which would you recommend? Keep in mind that I'm looking for something for claw/fingertip grip.


If claw is another option, add the Kone Pure Military to my aforementioned list.


----------



## Screwball

How does the Roccat Kone compare to the Savu? My Savu's shape and size is PERFECT but i wanted something with with lower liftoff and faster perfect control speed.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> How does the Roccat Kone compare to the Savu? My Savu's shape and size is PERFECT but i wanted something with with lower liftoff and faster perfect control speed.


I have a Kone[+] in my Collection, but I find the shape not really comfy, because it's a bit to high for me and the increased angle of my wrist gives me a sore wrist after some time.

Even my wife didn't like it and went back to her Death-Adder.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> How does the Roccat Kone compare to the Savu? My Savu's shape and size is PERFECT but i wanted something with with lower liftoff and faster perfect control speed.


Look at Kone Pure Military. Size is the same, but shape is almost the same - that "hump" (approx. at Mouse5 button) has been moved forward, so it's more palm-friendly.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *towzone*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi for CS: GO, 1000 dpi normally. Default sensitivity for windows.
> *What's your maximum budget?* $80
> *Do you want additional buttons?* I currently have a Naga and I don't use the numberpad. A few extra buttons wouldn't be an issue though.
> *What games do you play?* LoL, CS:Go, WoW rarely
> *Do you mind about prediction?* I don't want mouse prediction
> *Other relevant information:* I'm using a 2012 Naga now and I don't like it very much. The way I grip it is awkward and I don't think it's made for my grip style (fingertip, big hand). I also don't use the number pad on the site at all.
> I'm considering the CM Storm Spawn, but it seems to be out of stock in a lot of places (or overpriced). Are there any good fingertip alternatives?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


If your sensitivity is below 50/360 (I'd say maybe 45 or lower to be safe) and don't care about side buttons + you want to spend as little as possible (although if the first two things are true, there's no reason to spend more), G100s is your best option: it defaults to [email protected] without drivers and it's the deal of the century.


----------



## twerk

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?* 1600-1800 CPI
*What's your maximum budget?* £80
*Do you want additional buttons?* No
*What games do you play?* Borderlands, CS:GO and casual stuff. Not competitive but accuracy is very important to me, I get frustrated otherwise.
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
*Other relevant information:* Has to be white and also work with a hard pad and without a mouse pad if I need it to, so no 3310.

Thanks.


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> You would probably be perfectly happy with the FK1.


I now have the mouse (all resellers were out of stock for a while in Finland) and it feels great. It could be a little bit larger but it's not really an issue for me. I like the switches and the feet on the mouse are so slick! I haven't noticed anything weird with the sensor which means that it's as good as it gets for me.

However I do have a big complaint on this mouse: The scroll wheel doesn't work properly. I heard the FK had this problem as well and I read some reviews that said that in FK1 the problem was fixed. Well, here I sit with a mouse that has a faulty scroll wheel. It scrolls down just fine but when scrolling up it misses the scroll every once in a while and when I scroll up again it scrolls twice...

Needles to say I sent a RMA instantly to Zowie. Strive for perfection, sure









This turned out to be a rant since this is the third (expensive) product that I bought in two months that didn't work as it should've (I'm looking at you, Asus and Logitech..) and I'm getting frustrated.


----------



## Jeemil89

Hi all!

What do you guys think about the Steelseries Rival? I just bought the Steelseries sensei RAW (rubber edition), and it's just too slippery from the sides and the sensor LOD is too high ( I know the tape trick) . Also the acceleration is sometimes noticeable. I play with 900 CPI and FPS games. The Rival should have a better sensor (3310) and rubbery sides for better grip.
Thanks!


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> [*] *Other relevant information:* Has to be white and also work with a hard pad and without a mouse pad if I need it to, so no 3310.
> 
> Thanks.


This one, then?











For realsies, if you really need to use it without a mouse pad (why?), I guess Sensei Frost Blue is your best bet if you can find it, followed by white Comfort 6000 (has gray sides), but the sensor on the latter isn't really gaming grade (I've used it and it works fine for games, just not on the level of other sensors). Otherwise white Kana v2 (has black sides).


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> What do you guys think about the Steelseries Rival? I just bought the Steelseries sensei RAW (rubber edition), and it's just too slippery from the sides and the sensor LOD is too high ( I know the tape trick) . Also the acceleration is sometimes noticeable. I play with 900 CPI and FPS games. The Rival should have a better sensor (3310) and rubbery sides for better grip.
> Thanks!


The mouse is fine, but may I ask why you're not considering other mice?


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> The mouse is fine, but may I ask why you're not considering other mice?


I am, it's just that the Zowie Fk1 is not in stock here but the Rival is. Feel free to suggest other options


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> I am, it's just that the Zowie Fk1 is not in stock here but the Rival is. Feel free to suggest other options


I can't without you answering at least a few of the questions.


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> I am, it's just that the Zowie Fk1 is not in stock here but the Rival is. Feel free to suggest other options


They have it in stock on CDON.com if you are willing to buy from them









http://cdon.fi/kodin_elektroniikka/zowie/zowie-fk1-mouse-p27933710


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I can't without you answering at least a few of the questions.


What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
800-1000 CPI
What's your maximum budget?
80€
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons
What games do you play?
FPS , sometimes RPG/3 person shooters
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction please
Other relevant information:
Low LOD or ajustable, Lighweight, Good side grip for lifting, Switches with good tactile feedback


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tuxi*
> 
> They have it in stock on CDON.com if you are willing to buy from them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cdon.fi/kodin_elektroniikka/zowie/zowie-fk1-mouse-p27933710


Thanks, I think I'll wait till the better shops have stock (Verkkokauppa, JimmsPC)


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800-1000 CPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> 80€
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons
> What games do you play?
> FPS , sometimes RPG/3 person shooters
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction please
> Other relevant information:
> Low LOD or ajustable, Lighweight, Good side grip for lifting, Switches with good tactile feedback


Avior 7000 should be pretty fitting for you then, given that you can't find the FK1 from a reliable seller.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Avior 7000 should be pretty fitting for you then, given that you can't find the FK1 from a reliable seller.


How is the finish on that mouse? Can you get a good grip from the sides with sweaty hands?


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Thanks, I think I'll wait till the better shops have stock (Verkkokauppa, JimmsPC)


I called Jimms a few weeks ago and their guess was "before the new year" so the wait could be long. CDON.com has been good for me and I think the reason for that is that I haven't had the need to do any RMA business with them. Up until now


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> How is the finish on that mouse? Can you get a good grip from the sides with sweaty hands?


The build quality is really good. You should have no problems with sweaty hands either.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> This one, then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For realsies, if you really need to use it without a mouse pad (why?), I guess Sensei Frost Blue is your best bet if you can find it, followed by white Comfort 6000 (has gray sides), but the sensor on the latter isn't really gaming grade (I've used it and it works fine for games, just not on the level of other sensors). Otherwise white Kana v2 (has black sides).


Ewwww haha

The Sensei Frost Blue is nice but I have a thing against SS, I don't have a good track record with them as far as build quality goes... only other thing I can think of is the Zowie EC2 eVo but I can't seem to find them anymore. Are they discontinued?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Ewwww haha
> 
> The Sensei Frost Blue is nice but I have a thing against SS, I don't have a good track record with them as far as build quality goes... only other thing I can think of is the Zowie EC2 eVo but I can't seem to find them anymore. Are they discontinued?


No idea. They have them where I live, but may just be old stock.


----------



## Excelsius

Mouse

What's your grip style?
Something between fingertip and palm (definitely *not* claw)
What's your sensitivity?
Medium-high (not sure on exact CPI, but the sticky I think suggested that 600-1200 is generally a good range for med-high sensitivity players at 1080-1440p?)
What's your maximum budget?
Under $200
Do you want additional buttons?
Min 5 buttons (wheel + left/right sides); no interest in "MMO" mice with tens of buttons though
What games do you play?
All types
Do you mind about prediction?
Ideally, one that can support having it on and off; if not, prefer to have it on
Other relevant information:
LOD: don't know the typical range for mice, but I typically don't lift more than a few MM when repositioning so I assume I need a low LOD
Ambidextrous shape: I'm right handed
Weight: average (?); I'm not sure what the range of available weights is
Wireless: wired, unless there is a wireless mouse that can be used while charging (I'm bad at keeping track of batteries and would prefer not to deal with the maintenance)
Cord: non-braided
Glossy finish: no
Button activation force: a decent amount along with tactile feedback if possible; I'd prefer to avoid accidental clicks
Driverless: whichever is better I suppose
Onboard memory: assuming this is for macros, it would be nice to have but not a deal breaker and definitely lower on a priority list
Aesthetic: prefer soft, subtle, understated appearance
Mousepad

Hard or cloth: cloth if they both work equally well (forgiving on the mouse, more consistent performance over the lifetime), otherwise whichever works better for the mouse described above
Rough or smooth: smooth if they both work equally well, otherwise whichever works better for the mouse described above
Size: medium I suppose; desk space is limited but I'd prefer not to have to lift the mouse too often. If it helps, I'll be running 2560x1440
Maximum budget: $50


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> No idea. They have them where I live, but may just be old stock.


I can get a Zowie AM-FG for a pretty good price, yes or no?


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> The build quality is really good. You should have no problems with sweaty hands either.


Ok thanks. I still have to test the mouse to see if it's the right shape for me. How is the mionix superior to the rival or fk1? Or what's different?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I can get a Zowie AM-FG for a pretty good price, yes or no?


It's good, but people have said that it isn't stable at 1000Hz (or reduces PCS, sth like that) and lower dpi steps have a higher input lag, so you'd have to use it at [email protected] for optimal performance.

EDIT: About the 1000Hz, seems like it suffers from both issues. Max. PCS with 1000Hz is 1.5m/s apparently. Source: http://www.esreality.com/post/2612716/mice-using-flawless-sensors-v2/#pid2640189


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Ok thanks. I still have to test the mouse to see if it's the right shape for me. How is the mionix superior to the rival or fk1? Or what's different?


Shape and weight, but out of those 3 the FK1 is the superior one, assuming you can get one with no issues (a lot of them have a bad/defective scroll wheel).


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> It's good, but people have said that it isn't stable at 1000Hz (or reduces PCS, sth like that) and lower dpi steps have a higher input lag, so you'd have to use it at [email protected] for optimal performance.
> 
> EDIT: About the 1000Hz, seems like it suffers from both issues. Max. PCS with 1000Hz is 1.5m/s apparently. Source: http://www.esreality.com/post/2612716/mice-using-flawless-sensors-v2/#pid2640189


Hmmm... thanks. I think I'll go for it, can always return it if I don't like it. Thanks again.


----------



## 95329

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Shape and weight, but out of those 3 the FK1 is the superior one, assuming you can get one with no issues (*a lot of them have a bad/defective scroll wheel*).


Yeah, I noticed


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Hmmm... thanks. I think I'll go for it, can always return it if I don't like it. Thanks again.


That's true.









Good luck with it.


----------



## BritishBob

What's your grip style?
Unknown. I know he doesn't mind my SS Sensei when he's used it.
What's your sensitivity?
Unknown, your average when I've used his PC.
What's your maximum budget?
£30-£60. The cheaper the better tbh. About $30-$80.
Do you want additional buttons?
Not essential, but not opposed to them.
What games do you play?

Do you mind about prediction?
No
Other relevant information:
Christmas present for brother who has started complaining about the batteries in his bad wireless mouse. The cheaper the better. Just thas to be an average mouse as anything is going to be an upgrade.
I own a SS Sensei, would rarther not have the same mouse as my Bro.









Ty for suggestions, not too strict just looking and seeing what's available and recommend.


----------



## Trull

Since it's a Christmas present and you're looking for something cheap: can't get any cheaper than buying a G100s PC Bang from Korea on eBay... or several in case one has a click issue or whatever. You'll probably even like that one better than the Sensei.


----------



## wermad

Besides the Rival & Deathadder, any other bear claw size gaming mice recommendations? I'm leaning on the Steelseries as its got the a wider mid section. But it was hard to put my hands on the Razer to test it at the store







. Razer should do a little cutout like Logitech and Steelseries on the box for testing. Budget is ~$50.

nm, just picked up the deathadder


----------



## katarn55

What's your grip style?
palm/claw
What's your sensitivity?
800-1600
What's your maximum budget?
30-40$
Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons, scroll wheel as a button
What games do you play?
FPS, TPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
I have used a Logitech MX400 which i really liked. Looking for something similar. Somekind of macro option in the mouse software would be good.


----------



## Xiamath

What's your grip style?
Fingertip (my pinky doesn't touch the mouse tho)
What's your sensitivity?
I play at 2100 CPI, with the League of Legends mouse slider at 48 which seems to bring the Windows slider at 5/11 during games, thus i think around 1575 CPI; anyway anything around 1400-1800 should be fine.
What's your maximum budget?
No limits
Do you want additional buttons?
Side buttons possibly
What games do you play?
Mainly League of Legends, sometimes some SC2 and CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes
Other relevant information:
I currently use a G500
I'm thinking to buy either a Zowie FK1 which supports 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 CPI and is an ambidextrous, not ergonomic mouse (i never used one) but i read they're good for fingertip grip style; or a Razer Deathadder 2013 which people say it seems to work well at every CPI (they're all interpolated or something like this, but they do work well).
The Zowie EC2 eVo CL seems good too but it supports weird CPI (450/1.150/2.300).

I can have the Zowie FK1 / EC2 eVo CL for 79€ on Amazon while the Razer Deathadder 2013 is only 49€.

What are your advice? Thank you


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xiamath*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip (my pinky doesn't touch the mouse tho)
> What's your sensitivity?
> I play at 2100 CPI, with the League of Legends mouse slider at 48 which seems to bring the Windows slider at 5/11 during games, thus i think around 1575 CPI; anyway anything around 1400-1800 should be fine.
> What's your maximum budget?
> No limits
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Side buttons possibly
> What games do you play?
> Mainly League of Legends, sometimes some SC2 and CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> I currently use a G500
> I'm thinking to buy either a Zowie FK1 which supports 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 CPI and is an ambidextrous, not ergonomic mouse (i never used one) but i read they're good for fingertip grip style; or a Razer Deathadder 2013 which people say it seems to work well at every CPI (they're all interpolated or something like this, but they do work well).
> The Zowie EC2 eVo CL seems good too but it supports weird CPI (450/1.150/2.300).
> 
> I can have the Zowie FK1 / EC2 eVo CL for 79€ on Amazon while the Razer Deathadder 2013 is only 49€.
> 
> What are your advice? Thank you


FK1 has a great shape and weight for fingertip grip, but the sensor implementation isn't that great. Conversely, the KPM sensor is better but the shape is worse.

I'd wait a little longer till a good shape is released with a good sensor.

Here's something you'll want to keep in mind for FPS games: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xiamath*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip (my pinky doesn't touch the mouse tho)
> What's your sensitivity?
> I play at 2100 CPI, with the League of Legends mouse slider at 48 which seems to bring the Windows slider at 5/11 during games, thus i think around 1575 CPI; anyway anything around 1400-1800 should be fine.
> What's your maximum budget?
> No limits
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Side buttons possibly
> What games do you play?
> Mainly League of Legends, sometimes some SC2 and CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> Other relevant information:
> I currently use a G500
> I'm thinking to buy either a Zowie FK1 which supports 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 CPI and is an ambidextrous, not ergonomic mouse (i never used one) but i read they're good for fingertip grip style; or a Razer Deathadder 2013 which people say it seems to work well at every CPI (they're all interpolated or something like this, but they do work well).
> The Zowie EC2 eVo CL seems good too but it supports weird CPI (450/1.150/2.300).
> 
> I can have the Zowie FK1 / EC2 eVo CL for 79€ on Amazon while the Razer Deathadder 2013 is only 49€.
> 
> What are your advice? Thank you


NO dont get the fk1. huano switches are disliked by everyone due to stiffness and not ideal for any game that requires lots of clicking. also seems overpriced.

can't recommend a mouse since some things you say contradict. g500 is ergonomic and you say you haven't used one. You also call yourself fingertip but g500 isn't really a fingertip mouse.


----------



## mikeaj

I haven't looked at mice in a while, so if anyone has any ideas...

I'm looking for a right-handed mouse that's comfortable for general use.

What's your grip style?
*Claw, palm, in between, depending*
What's your sensitivity?
*1600ish CPI generally*
What's your maximum budget?
*$100? Who knows? I'm looking for a decent deal and expect to pay something more like $50-60 (especially around Black Friday), but it's not like I'm broke.*
Do you want additional buttons?
*I need at least L/R/wheel (and wheel click of course), two left-side thumb buttons, and a DPI toggle but don't particularly want any more.*
What games do you play?
*Nothing much that even uses a mouse. This is a secondary concern. Out of things actually on the computer that use a mouse, possibly RTS and RPGs.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, etc. aren't big concerns for me unless there's something egregious.*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*I'd prefer a dedicated right-handed mouse rather than ambidextrous, but ambidextrous wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Lower button activation force and softer (volume) clicks are preferred. I'd rather have a larger size. I don't care for LEDs and would rather not have a transformer-type gamer-looking design. I'd also prefer something that's not finicky on substandard surfaces.*


----------



## Xiamath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> FK1 has a great shape and weight for fingertip grip, but the sensor implementation isn't that great. Conversely, the KPM sensor is better but the shape is worse.
> 
> I'd wait a little longer till a good shape is released with a good sensor.
> 
> Here's something you'll want to keep in mind for FPS games: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


KPM stands for Kone Pure Military?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> NO dont get the fk1. huano switches are disliked by everyone due to stiffness and not ideal for any game that requires lots of clicking. also seems overpriced.
> 
> can't recommend a mouse since some things you say contradict. g500 is ergonomic and you say you haven't used one. You also call yourself fingertip but g500 isn't really a fingertip mouse.


I said "Zowie FK1... is an ambidextrous, not ergonomic mouse (i never used one)" and i meant that i never used a not ergonomic mouse, and i understand that the G500 isn't a fingertip mouse but this doesn't mean i can't use it with fingertip.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't looked at mice in a while, so if anyone has any ideas...
> 
> I'm looking for a right-handed mouse that's comfortable for general use.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Claw, palm, in between, depending*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *1600ish CPI generally*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$100? Who knows? I'm looking for a decent deal and expect to pay something more like $50-60 (especially around Black Friday), but it's not like I'm broke.*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *I need at least L/R/wheel (and wheel click of course), two left-side thumb buttons, and a DPI toggle but don't particularly want any more.*
> What games do you play?
> *Nothing much that even uses a mouse. This is a secondary concern. Out of things actually on the computer that use a mouse, possibly RTS and RPGs.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, etc. aren't big concerns for me unless there's something egregious.*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> *I'd prefer a dedicated right-handed mouse rather than ambidextrous, but ambidextrous wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Lower button activation force and softer (volume) clicks are preferred. I'd rather have a larger size. I don't care for LEDs and would rather not have a transformer-type gamer-looking design. I'd also prefer something that's not finicky on substandard surfaces.*


Go to a local electronics store (Fry's Electronics is really good if you live near one) that has a bunch of mice laying out for people to test, and pick which ever mouse feels best in your hand.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xiamath*
> 
> KPM stands for Kone Pure Military?


ya


----------



## Screwball

^not the greatest advice. Most electronic stores that even sell gaming mice around here don't sell anything worth buying and they don't have anything on display. I assume that is the way it is in most places.

Cant really go wrong with the Kone PM


----------



## mikeaj

I live a bit too much out in the boonies to find enough of a selection actually on display, unfortunately.

i.e. not going to drive 2+ hours just to look around. No Fry's / MC in that range, BB etc. options are relatively small operations compared to the larger stores.


----------



## Funshy

1. What's your grip style? finger/palm
2. What's your sensitivity? 800
3. What's your maximum budget? ~60 euro
4. Do you want additional buttons? I don't need
5. What games do you play? FPS (CS:GO,...)
6. Do you mind about prediction? no


----------



## leothelion

Thinking of buying a ZOWIE FK1 but I wonder if anyone here have had a Kana v2 and can tell me which one is a actually bigger? I mean the dimensions are similar but it can still feel different. Coating and such. I really like the shape of the Kana v2 although I wish it would be slightly bigger, so would FK1 do me better? I currently have 2 pair of skatez on my Kana v2 to increase the height on it. Also curious if the input lag is really as bad as I've heard?


----------



## Mackem

My Deathadder 2013 broke. What can I get that has a similar sort of shape and sensor performance but better build quality?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mackem*
> 
> My Deathadder 2013 broke. What can I get that has a similar sort of shape and sensor performance but better build quality?


The Asus Gladius comes to mind. Same sensor, better build quality, similar shape.









A bit expensive, though... not gonna lie.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funshy*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? finger/palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 800
> 3. What's your maximum budget? ~60 euro
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? I don't need
> 5. What games do you play? FPS (CS:GO,...)
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? no


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> ^not the greatest advice. Most electronic stores that even sell gaming mice around here don't sell anything worth buying and they don't have anything on display. I assume that is the way it is in most places.
> 
> Cant really go wrong with the Kone PM


He's not looking for gaming mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mackem*
> 
> My Deathadder 2013 broke. What can I get that has a similar sort of shape and sensor performance but better build quality?


DA 3g or 3.5g is said to have a better sensor. You could look on ebay for one.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> DA 3g or 3.5g is said to have a better sensor. You could look on ebay for one.


1. A lot of modern sensors don't have smoothing.

2. You're ignoring the guy wanting better build quality? The build quality on both the 3G and 3.5G is *worse* than on the 2013, and he wants *better*. Besides, he said he likes the 2013's sensor, so that means he's not looking for the best sensor ever. Not everyone is a "competitive gamer".


----------



## metal571

Don't argue with Max, you'll always "lose" because the MLT04 is the only sensor worth using.

/sarcasm


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Don't argue with Max, you'll always "lose" because the MLT04 is the only sensor worth using.
> 
> /sarcasm


Yeah... it's silly.


----------



## Excelsius

*Mouse*

Grip: between palm and fingertip, but definitely *not* claw

Sensitivity: medium-high; unsure of exact CPI but I think the sticky recommended 600-1200 for med-high sensitivity at 1080/1440p

Maximum budget: $200

Additional buttons: 5 total minimum (L/RMB, scroll wheel, left and right side button)

Types of games: all

Prediction: one that can turn it on or off if possible; otherwise, on

Other relevant information: low LOD, right-handed or ambidextrous, lower weight is better, wired, non-braided, not glossy, decent actuation force, driverless if possible (less bugs?), onboard memory if possible but low priority, subtle aesthetic

*Mousepad*

Material: Cloth if either works well for the mouse suggested above, otherwise whichever works better

Feel: smooth if either works well, otherwise whichever works better

Size: medium (limited desk space, but I don't want to lift off too often); if half the pad could cover half the screen at 1440p, that would be ideal

Maximum budget: $100


----------



## MidNighTempest

What's your grip style? *Palm.*

What's your sensitivity? *800+?*

What's your maximum budget? *$100.*

Do you want additional buttons? *Sure.*

What games do you play? *Mainly League of Legend, + some FPS games like CS:GO.*

Do you mind about prediction? *No Idea what this is...*

Other relevant information: *"NO RAZER Product Please." Other Mouse I've own in the past are Logitech MX518, DeatherAdder BlackEdition, ROCCAT XTD & Currently Mionix AVIOR 7000. Out of all the Mouse I've use, The Logitech MX518 & ROCCAT XTD seem to the most comfortable in term of gripping.*

Requirement: *MUST be an Optical Mouse.*

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, *onboard memory*, etc
Thanks.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MidNighTempest*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm.*
> 
> What's your sensitivity? *800+?*
> 
> What's your maximum budget? *$100.*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? *Sure.*
> 
> What games do you play? *Mainly League of Legend, + some FPS games like CS:GO.*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? *No Idea what this is...*
> 
> Other relevant information: *"NO RAZER Product Please." Other Mouse I've own in the past are Logitech MX518, DeatherAdder BlackEdition, ROCCAT XTD & Currently Mionix AVIOR 7000. Out of all the Mouse I've use, The Logitech MX518 & ROCCAT XTD seem to the most comfortable in term of gripping.*
> 
> Requirement: *MUST be an Optical Mouse.*
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, *onboard memory*, etc
> Thanks.


G402, Naos 7000, Rival
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Excelsius*
> 
> *Mouse*
> 
> Grip: between palm and fingertip, but definitely *not* claw
> 
> Sensitivity: medium-high; unsure of exact CPI but I think the sticky recommended 600-1200 for med-high sensitivity at 1080/1440p
> 
> Maximum budget: $200
> 
> Additional buttons: 5 total minimum (L/RMB, scroll wheel, left and right side button)
> 
> Types of games: all
> 
> Prediction: one that can turn it on or off if possible; otherwise, on
> 
> Other relevant information: low LOD, right-handed or ambidextrous, lower weight is better, wired, non-braided, not glossy, decent actuation force, driverless if possible (less bugs?), onboard memory if possible but low priority, subtle aesthetic
> 
> *Mousepad*
> 
> Material: Cloth if either works well for the mouse suggested above, otherwise whichever works better
> 
> Feel: smooth if either works well, otherwise whichever works better
> 
> Size: medium (limited desk space, but I don't want to lift off too often); if half the pad could cover half the screen at 1440p, that would be ideal
> 
> Maximum budget: $100


FK1, regular QcK


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MidNighTempest*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm.*
> 
> What's your sensitivity? *800+?*
> 
> What's your maximum budget? *$100.*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? *Sure.*
> 
> What games do you play? *Mainly League of Legend, + some FPS games like CS:GO.*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? *No Idea what this is...*
> 
> Other relevant information: *"NO RAZER Product Please." Other Mouse I've own in the past are Logitech MX518, DeatherAdder BlackEdition, ROCCAT XTD & Currently Mionix AVIOR 7000. Out of all the Mouse I've use, The Logitech MX518 & ROCCAT XTD seem to the most comfortable in term of gripping.*
> 
> Requirement: *MUST be an Optical Mouse.*
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, *onboard memory*, etc
> Thanks.


Not sure if you're aware, but an XTD Optical exists.


----------



## MidNighTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G402, Naos 7000, Rival
> FK1, regular QcK


Thanks, Would you say the G502 is better than G402?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Not sure if you're aware, but an XTD Optical exists.


Yes, I recently notice it but I didn't like the built quality of the mouse & the cat logo wears off / faded. Those things tend to annoy me.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MidNighTempest*
> 
> Thanks, Would you say the G502 is better than G402?
> Yes, I recently notice it but I didn't like the built quality of the mouse & the cat logo wears off / faded. Those things tend to annoy me.


G502 is only better if the weight isn't going to bother you, such as if you were a higher sensitivity player on a hard mat.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G502 is only better if the weight isn't going to bother you, such as if you were a higher sensitivity player on a hard mat.


Yeah, but from my own experience, even though a hard mat makes a heavier mouse glide better and feel more efortless to move, small adjustments are still hard to make and are hindered by the mouse's weight.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Yeah, but from my own experience, even though a hard mat makes a heavier mouse glide better and feel more efortless to move, small adjustments are still hard to make and are hindered by the mouse's weight.


Very true. The weight can also be an issue if the gamer is a heavy mouse lifter. Someone who likes to pick up the mouse and re-position it on the pad, it gets tiring for the hand.


----------



## Elyminator

Ok I'm here looking for a better choice mouse for me. I've tried the deathadder 2013 the steelseries rival and the naga (wired 20..12 model?) the naga is my oldest mouse and my favorite of them but I didn't really like having all the buttons that I don't use. So from there I moved tot he rival the mouse was a bit to big for my hand to fit comfortably and I didn't like that the rubber coating got gross. TBH I had that mouse for a week and I think the coating on mine was defective. it seemed to be wiping off. so then I picked up the deathadder 2013. I actually got a 50 dollar steam card with the mouse so it was a great deal however after using it for several months I have decided that despite that fact that I like the shape I absolutely hate the texture on the surface. so as of today I have plugged my naga back in. I dunno am I trying to change something that doesn't need to be changed with the naga? I just feel like all 12 buttons on the side is overwhelming to me ( i knew this when I bought it but at the time of purchase it was this or nothing). so anyways....

What's your grip style? palm/ fingertip depending on what i'm doing
What's your sensitivity? pretty high generally
What's your maximum budget? 50-100
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons
What games do you play? league mostly also fps
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
open to all suggestions partial to ones I can purchase at bestbuy as I work there
I have super dry hands so I'm super particular about texture on the mouse


----------



## TONSCHUH

Someone should really give the Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1 a go:

Shogun Bros Ballista MK-1 Pro Gaming Mouse Review

Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1 Gaming Mouse Review

Shogun Bros Ballista MK-1 Review
Quote:


> The Ballista MK-1
> 
> Sensor: ........................................ Avago ADNS-9800 8200 DPI Laser Sensor
> Maximum Tracking Speed: ......150 IPS
> Maximum Acceleration: ............ 30 g
> Polling Rate: ............................... 1.0 ms
> Hand: ........................................... Right Hand Ergonomic
> Buttons: ........................................ 10
> Onboard Memory: ...................... Yes
> Lift Of Distance: .......................... 1.5mm - not adjustable


I have the following mice in my collection:

- Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1
- Logitech G9
- Cyborg R.A.T. 7 Infection
- Razer DeathAdder 3.5G
- Roccat Kone[+]
- Zalman FPSGun Mouse

Mouse-Pads:

- Roccat Siru (now)
- SteelSeries Cloth Material (before)

... but I like the Ballista MK-1 the most.

My hands are a bit larger and I prefer more of a claw-grip-style.

I play games like Brink / Battlefield 3 + 4 / Titanfall / Diablo-3: Reaper of Souls etc.pp.

Here are some short Media-Comments on their website: Click


----------



## turnschuh

Nice sensor position though.^^


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice sensor position though.^^


Ah... good ol' China strikes again.


----------



## doomleika

Don't get your hopes on, Chinese mouse scene prices highly on DPI and laser(9500, 9800). in other words, 9800 is be da best sensor. even 3366 don't hold a candle to 9800.


----------



## Xiamath

I've decided to buy a Roccat Kone Pure Military, i'm not really corcerned about the shape because it seems similar to my G500.
Reading the Roccat site i saw that there are different models of the Roccat Kone Pure and i want to be sure i'm buying the correct one.

http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Kone-Pure-Military/
That should be the correct one from their site and it says Product Code: ROC-11-71x

I want to order mine from Amazon.it (i'm italian), this is the one they offer http://www.amazon.it/Roccat-Kone-Pure-Mouse-Gaming/dp/B00KLVN2YO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1415881992&sr=8-3&keywords=kone+pure
It says only Roccat Kone Pure with Product Code: ROC-11-712;
but from the photo it seems the Military version with Naval Storm design.

What do you think? Thank you.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xiamath*
> 
> I've decided to buy a Roccat Kone Pure Military, i'm not really corcerned about the shape because it seems similar to my G500.
> Reading the Roccat site i saw that there are different models of the Roccat Kone Pure and i want to be sure i'm buying the correct one.
> 
> http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Kone-Pure-Military/
> That should be the correct one from their site and it says Product Code: ROC-11-71x
> 
> I want to order mine from Amazon.it (i'm italian), this is the one they offer http://www.amazon.it/Roccat-Kone-Pure-Mouse-Gaming/dp/B00KLVN2YO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1415881992&sr=8-3&keywords=kone+pure
> It says only Roccat Kone Pure with Product Code: ROC-11-712;
> but from the photo it seems the Military version with Naval Storm design.
> 
> What do you think? Thank you.


Hmm, tough to say. Some of the info they give is for the Optical, like the sensor is listed as the R3 is from the Optical, while the Military has the R4. But then they have DPI listed as 5000 which is correct for the Military (Optical is 4000). I guess you could always order one and if it's just an Optical, complain very loudly to Amazon. The pictures are indeed a KPM as the label on the left would say "Pure Optical" and not "Naval Storm" on the Kone Optical, but I could see Amazon screwing up since the mice basically look the same.


----------



## RaisenRekt

What's your grip style? Hybrid claw grip, with tips of fingers on the mouse switches. I don't know if I have large or small hands, just check the pic. If you want more dimensions, just ask.
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? 80-100$
Do you want additional buttons? MOUSE 4, MOUSE 5
What games do you play? Mainly CS:GO on a pretty good level.
Do you mind about prediction? I kinda don't know what is it, but if it's mouse accel, it would be a problem.
Other relevant information: I have sharp edges on my table and my cloth cable kinda vibrates when I move my mouse and it's VERY annoying, so I would prefer a cord that ain't cloth. I don't know which shape is the best for me, I can get used to everything. I prefer low-average weight, nothing below 120 grams please. 1 ms latency with no delay, I need to have gr8 reaction time with AWP.

THAT AIN'T MY HAND, ONLY DIMENSIONS ARE MINE.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elyminator*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I'm here looking for a better choice mouse for me. I've tried the deathadder 2013 the steelseries rival and the naga (wired 20..12 model?) the naga is my oldest mouse and my favorite of them but I didn't really like having all the buttons that I don't use. So from there I moved tot he rival the mouse was a bit to big for my hand to fit comfortably and I didn't like that the rubber coating got gross. TBH I had that mouse for a week and I think the coating on mine was defective. it seemed to be wiping off. so then I picked up the deathadder 2013. I actually got a 50 dollar steam card with the mouse so it was a great deal however after using it for several months I have decided that despite that fact that I like the shape I absolutely hate the texture on the surface. so as of today I have plugged my naga back in. I dunno am I trying to change something that doesn't need to be changed with the naga? I just feel like all 12 buttons on the side is overwhelming to me ( i knew this when I bought it but at the time of purchase it was this or nothing). so anyways....
> 
> What's your grip style? palm/ fingertip depending on what i'm doing
> What's your sensitivity? pretty high generally
> What's your maximum budget? 50-100
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? league mostly also fps
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> open to all suggestions partial to ones I can purchase at bestbuy as I work there
> I have super dry hands so I'm super particular about texture on the mouse


KPM is bad for dry hands, but pretty much has the best sensor of all recently released mice. FK1 is good for coating, shape, weight, but the sensor isn't great, and the buttons are stiffer than many people like for non-fps games. There are versions of intellimice with glossy coating, and there are versions of zowie mice with glossy coating.

I don't see an ideal mouse for you. You're going to have to compromise in some area.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

https://i.imgur.com/mn78Y.jpg

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaisenRekt*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid claw grip, with tips of fingers on the mouse switches. I don't know if I have large or small hands, just check the pic. If you want more dimensions, just ask.
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? 80-100$
> Do you want additional buttons? MOUSE 4, MOUSE 5
> What games do you play? Mainly CS:GO on a pretty good level.
> Do you mind about prediction? I kinda don't know what is it, but if it's mouse accel, it would be a problem.
> Other relevant information: I have sharp edges on my table and my cloth cable kinda vibrates when I move my mouse and it's VERY annoying, so I would prefer a cord that ain't cloth. I don't know which shape is the best for me, I can get used to everything. I prefer low-average weight, nothing below 120 grams please. 1 ms latency with no delay, I need to have gr8 reaction time with AWP.
> 
> THAT AIN'T MY HAND, ONLY DIMENSIONS ARE MINE.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Xiamath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Hmm, tough to say. Some of the info they give is for the Optical, like the sensor is listed as the R3 is from the Optical, while the Military has the R4. But then they have DPI listed as 5000 which is correct for the Military (Optical is 4000). I guess you could always order one and if it's just an Optical, complain very loudly to Amazon. The pictures are indeed a KPM as the label on the left would say "Pure Optical" and not "Naval Storm" on the Kone Optical, but I could see Amazon screwing up since the mice basically look the same.


If the military one is easy to recognize i can just order it and refund if it isn't the the correct one.
So if it has the laber Naval Storm it is the KPM for sure?


----------



## axizor

Are there any really large mice out there (for palm grip) with a good optical sensor? Think QPad 5K type form factor.


----------



## RaisenRekt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> KPM is bad for dry hands, but pretty much has the best sensor of all recently released mice. FK1 is good for coating, shape, weight, but the sensor isn't great, and the buttons are stiffer than many people like for non-fps games. There are versions of intellimice with glossy coating, and there are versions of zowie mice with glossy coating.
> 
> I don't see an ideal mouse for you. You're going to have to compromise in some area.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/mn78Y.jpg
> 
> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


I've got nothing out of that post. Please, reply normally. Also, I use the SS QcK.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xiamath*
> 
> If the military one is easy to recognize i can just order it and refund if it isn't the the correct one.
> So if it has the laber Naval Storm it is the KPM for sure?


Well, it's not only the label but they are different colors as well. They're just close enough in color that someone from Amazon wouldn't care enough to notice. But yeah, I think you'd have an argument for Amazon to not charge you a return fee since they have info/pics telling you it's the Kone Pure Military.


----------



## RaisenRekt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaisenRekt*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid claw grip, with tips of fingers on the mouse switches. I don't know if I have large or small hands, just check the pic. If you want more dimensions, just ask.
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? 80-100$
> Do you want additional buttons? MOUSE 4, MOUSE 5
> What games do you play? Mainly CS:GO on a pretty good level.
> Do you mind about prediction? I kinda don't know what is it, but if it's mouse accel, it would be a problem.
> Other relevant information: I have sharp edges on my table and my cloth cable kinda vibrates when I move my mouse and it's VERY annoying, so I would prefer a cord that ain't cloth. I don't know which shape is the best for me, I can get used to everything. I prefer low-average weight, nothing below 120 grams please. 1 ms latency with no delay, I need to have gr8 reaction time with AWP.
> 
> THAT AIN'T MY HAND, ONLY DIMENSIONS ARE MINE.


Please, reply fast.


----------



## a_ak57

Your statement about wanting a low/mid weight mouse but no less than 120g are rather conflicting as 120g is pretty heavy. Do you have some examples of mice you consider low/mid weight?


----------



## RaisenRekt

Well my current mouse is over 120 grams and my hand gets tired very easily (400 DPI). I would consider Deathadder 2013 as mid-high weight mouse and for example Zowie FK1 as a low weight mouse.


----------



## Elyminator

I'm looking at the Mionix NAOS 7000 and 8200 is there any reason to buy one over the other? they look like they both have almost the same shape?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaisenRekt*
> 
> Well my current mouse is over 120 grams and my hand gets tired very easily (400 DPI). I would consider Deathadder 2013 as mid-high weight mouse and for example Zowie FK1 as a low weight mouse.


Oh, so you _do_ want a mouse under 120g then (you said you want it higher). Well, I think I read that the latest firmware for the Kone Pure Military reduced its latency so you could look into that. I may be wrong though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elyminator*
> 
> I'm looking at the Mionix NAOS 7000 and 8200 is there any reason to buy one over the other? they look like they both have almost the same shape?


The 7000 has a better sensor.


----------



## Elyminator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Oh, so you _do_ want a mouse under 120g then (you said you want it higher). Well, I think I read that the latest firmware for the Kone Pure Military reduced its latency so you could look into that. I may be wrong though.
> The 7000 has a better sensor.


ahh thank you! I figured there had to be a reason people recommended it over the more expensive 8200


----------



## katarn55

What's your grip style?
palm/claw
What's your sensitivity?
800-1600
What's your maximum budget?
30-40$
Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons, scroll wheel as a button
What games do you play?
FPS, TPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
I have used a Logitech MX400 which i really liked. Looking for something similar. Somekind of macro option in the mouse software would be good.


----------



## RaisenRekt

Yeah, I wanted to say nothing above 120 grams. Will Kone Pure Military match my hand dimensions? I was thinking about Zowie FK1, but I can't try her and I would have to buy it through the e-shop. Another option is Razer Deathadder 2013, which I can try and is only for $60 in the local shop (that is REALLY low price here in Czech Republic). Steelseries Rival sound good to me aswell. So which one of these 4 mice? (Deathadder, Kone Pure Mil., Zowie FK1, Rival)


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaisenRekt*
> 
> So which one of these 4 mice? (Deathadder, Kone Pure Mil., Zowie FK1, Rival)


No one can say because we don't have your hands attached to our arms







.

I purchased all of them and found out that the Abby 2014 is my current fave mouse. Perfect for my usage and easy to move about on the Artisan SHIDENKAI MID.


----------



## Predje

1. What's your grip style?
fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
17" for 360 (400/450 dpi)

3. What's your maximum budget?
Dont have a maximum

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons on the left side only

5. What games do you play?
csgo and some other fps mainly

6. Do you mind angle snapping?
yes

7. Other relevant information:
NO ambidextrous
Would be nice to have some green led,
current mousepad is goliathus speed, current mouse bungee is the razer one which ****ed up the cable of my zowie ec1 evo that i currently own


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaisenRekt*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I wanted to say nothing above 120 grams. Will Kone Pure Military match my hand dimensions? I was thinking about Zowie FK1, but I can't try her and I would have to buy it through the e-shop. Another option is Razer Deathadder 2013, which I can try and is only for $60 in the local shop (that is REALLY low price here in Czech Republic). Steelseries Rival sound good to me aswell. So which one of these 4 mice? (Deathadder, Kone Pure Mil., Zowie FK1, Rival)


None of us can tell you that because even among people with similar grips and hand sizes there are going to be variances in shape preferences.

Like I said in my previous reply to you, you're going to have to make a compromise. The KPM or DA 3g and 3.5g have better sensors than the FK1 and Rival. But the FK1 has the best shape, but at the same time is a bit too thin for many people and thus cramps their hand. The KPM is similarly thin/small. The 3g and 3.5g sensors aren't sold in stores any more as far as I know, so they'd have to be snagged off ebay.

And like I said before, since you play on 400 dpi and CSGO is your main game, you'll want to strongly consider an MLT04 mouse because the sensor performance is unparalleled in FPS games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Predje*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400/450 dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Dont have a maximum
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons on the left side only
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> csgo and some other fps mainly
> 
> 6. Do you mind angle snapping?
> yes
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Would be nice to have some green led,
> current mousepad is goliathus speed, current mouse bungee is the razer one which ****ed up the cable of my zowie ec1 evo that i currently own


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Predje

As I'm looking for new mice which one would u recommend for low sens users (17" for 360) that are not ambidextrous?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Predje*
> 
> As I'm looking for new mice which one would u recommend for low sens users (17" for 360) that are not ambidextrous?


Why would you exclude ambidextrous mice? Ergonomics are overrated, let me tell you that much.


----------



## Screwball

how do you grip your mouse?


----------



## metal571

EC1, should just get another one I guess lol.

Wouldn't the KPM also work for fingertip as an ergo? Also, honestly if you're using fingertip you would not have any trouble getting used to the FK1, which I'd recommend.


----------



## Predje

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Why would you exclude ambidextrous mice? Ergonomics are overrated, let me tell you that much.


Owned one kept pressing the side buttons by accident, my ring finger and pinky are at the spots where those buttons are
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> how do you grip your mouse?


fingertip
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> EC1, should just get another one I guess lol.
> 
> Wouldn't the KPM also work for fingertip as an ergo? Also, honestly if you're using fingertip you would not have any trouble getting used to the FK1, which I'd recommend.


Had a fk1 kept pressing the side buttons cause theyre on the spot where i hold my mouse with ringfinger and pinky


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Predje*
> 
> Owned one kept pressing the side buttons by accident, my ring finger and pinky are at the spots where those buttons are


I thought you were talking about ambidextrous shapes, but the fact of the matter is that many of them don't have side buttons on the right side.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Predje*
> 
> Owned one kept pressing the side buttons by accident, my ring finger and pinky are at the spots where those buttons are
> fingertip
> Had a fk1 kept pressing the side buttons cause theyre on the spot where i hold my mouse with ringfinger and pinky


That's not going to be consistent among all ambi mice...

And not all ambi mice have buttons on the right side.

The right side FK1 buttons are disabled by default, so it just annoyed you to hear/feel them click?


----------



## leothelion

*What's your grip style?* Hybrid of claw/palm

*What's your maximum budget?* No maximum

*Do you want additional buttons?* Not really, but don't mind two side-buttons on left side or one on each side.

*What games do you play?* CSGO

*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes

*Other relevant information:* Medium/big hands, looking for ambidextreous mouse slighlty bigger than the Kana v2 (on width and height). Don't like overly long mices like the FK1. Optical sensor with high malfunctioning speed. Rubber/matt coating.


----------



## Screwball

Get the Kone Pure Military


----------



## Predje

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's not going to be consistent among all ambi mice...
> 
> And not all ambi mice have buttons on the right side.
> 
> The right side FK1 buttons are disabled by default, so it just annoyed you to hear/feel them click?


Thats true but as i've owned both the fk and am and since i had this problem with both i prefer to avoid those types of mouse in the future.
the main problem is that when i want to make small movements ingame i counter pressure the mouse with my thumb and push with my ring finger and pinky, depending on how hard it is to press the buttons the first thing that happens is that i push the side buttons and after that my mouse moves.
Now this is obviously only a split second but in fps that split second makes a world of difference.


----------



## ale29

Hello guys.

1) What's your grip style? Fingertip
2) What's your sensitivity? Not sure, Low-ish
3) What's your maximum budget? 70€
4) Do you want additional buttons? NO. Well, not a deal breaker if they're there, but I won't be using them anyway
5) What games do you play? DOTA 2; CS:GO
6) Do you mind about prediction? Please no prediction

Other relevant information:
Lightweight mouse preferred.
I'm lefty, so Ambidextrous it is as for shape.
I'm coming from a Razor pro 1.6 (Diamondback in a different color). I've used that mouse for maybe 10 years, got used to its shape.
Using a QCK cloth pad.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ale29*
> 
> Hello guys.
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 2) What's your sensitivity? Not sure, Low-ish
> 3) What's your maximum budget? 70€
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? NO. Well, not a deal breaker if they're there, but I won't be using them anyway
> 5) What games do you play? DOTA 2; CS:GO
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? Please no prediction
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Lightweight mouse preferred.
> I'm lefty, so Ambidextrous it is as for shape.
> I'm coming from a Razor pro 1.6 (Diamondback in a different color). I've used that mouse for maybe 10 years, got used to its shape.
> Using a QCK cloth pad.


Unless it's broken, I'd stick with it. There isn't a good alternative at the moment.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## ale29

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Unless it's broken, I'd stick with it. There isn't a good alternative at the moment.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


Left click has been giving me some issues during the last year.
I had to bind main command to the right click, because left click has become tricky.
I feel that the scroll wheel won't last much longer, too.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The right side FK1 buttons are disabled by default, so it just annoyed you to hear/feel them click?


Understandable. I don't even like side buttons at all, much less on the right side.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ale29*
> 
> Hello guys.
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 2) What's your sensitivity? Not sure, Low-ish
> 3) What's your maximum budget? 70€
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? NO. Well, not a deal breaker if they're there, but I won't be using them anyway
> 5) What games do you play? DOTA 2; CS:GO
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? Please no prediction
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Lightweight mouse preferred.
> I'm lefty, so Ambidextrous it is as for shape.
> I'm coming from a Razor pro 1.6 (Diamondback in a different color). I've used that mouse for maybe 10 years, got used to its shape.
> Using a QCK cloth pad.


You could try an FK1


----------



## MonarchX

I use Logitech G402 with updated firmware and I find finger grip most comfortable. I use 1200 DPI and don't like long mouse swings (rarely over 6 inches). I guess it means I am a moderate-high sensitivity gamer. I am using regular SteelSeries QcK at the moment and find it to be much better in terms of control than fUnc 1030 Pad I have earlier, which provided nice gliding effect, but it wasn't as good for control as QcK. The mouse would just keep going further than I would want it to with fUnc 1030.... its a bit hard to explain.

Anyway, I am wondering if there are better options for me than QcK and fUnc 1030 based on my mouse, grip, and DPI preferences, and Qck vs. fUnc 1030 experiences. I am NOT a good FPS player, not at all. I know neither mouse pad, nor mouse/keyboard, nor the fastest PC and the lowest input-lag monitor like ASUS ROG would turn me into a much better player, but these things do help. So, are there any mouse pad recommendations you guys can provide? Consider that there is no budget limit, although I am not spending $1000 on a mouse pad!


----------



## r3d33m3r

*What's your grip style?*
Palm, Claw, or hybrid, hard to decide
*What's your sensitivity?*
Mid
*What's your maximum budget?*
Doesn't matter
*Do you want additional buttons?*
On the side, if they don't get in hte way
*What games do you play?*
LoL, SC2, CS:GO, Skyrim
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I hate prediction and smoothing and all that jazz, so plz without
*Other relevant information:*
Tried the Logitech Proteus Core 502 which has an awesome sensor but I hated the shape and form and clicking of the buttons so I sent it back.
Another very important thing for me is native DPI steps. The DPI i mostly used range from 1000-1600, if the native DPI somewhere inbetween there I'm happy.
I thought maybe the Coolermaster Alcor ,the ASUS Strix or BSTs Aurora Ninox would be good, since the 3090 is a good sensor and the new 3310 on the Strix seems to get good reviews. The FK1 is good too, but I think Huano switches would be too stiff for me, since I do enjoy fast-clicking games as LoL or SC2.
Idc about LOD. cable is a must (no wireless), glossy or coated doesn't matter either.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

What's your grip style?

I would have to say Palm. I tend to have my entire hand covering the mouse with pinky dragging on the mouse pad.

What's your sensitivity?

Current mouse is a Logitech MX310 that sports 800 DPI. Usually in CS:S I have to put the sensitivity up to 15-20

What's your maximum budget?

Preferably under 100$

Do you want additional buttons?

Minimum would be the typical 3, but definitely not opposed to more.

What games do you play?

Counter Strike: Source and Global Offensive, TF2, Garry's Mod, World of Tanks, D&D Online (you get the picture.)

Do you mind about prediction?

Not sure what this one means.

Other relevant information:
I do tend to prefer wired mice as I hate replacing batteries if I do not have to. I'm currently looking at the R.A.T 7 with the pinky rest but would like to see if can find something cheaper.

To give an example of hand size.

Take a typical SATA HDD (In my case a Seagate Barracude 1Tb) My hand width wise starts to fold over the edges a little bit (If my thumb is pulled in next to hand then about an inch.). Length wise my fingers overshoot the edge by at the very least an inch. I cannot find my tape measure so have no way of getting a accurate reading.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> I use Logitech G402 with updated firmware and I find finger grip most comfortable. I use 1200 DPI and don't like long mouse swings (rarely over 6 inches). I guess it means I am a moderate-high sensitivity gamer. I am using regular SteelSeries QcK at the moment and find it to be much better in terms of control than fUnc 1030 Pad I have earlier, which provided nice gliding effect, but it wasn't as good for control as QcK. The mouse would just keep going further than I would want it to with fUnc 1030.... its a bit hard to explain.
> 
> Anyway, I am wondering if there are better options for me than QcK and fUnc 1030 based on my mouse, grip, and DPI preferences, and Qck vs. fUnc 1030 experiences. I am NOT a good FPS player, not at all. I know neither mouse pad, nor mouse/keyboard, nor the fastest PC and the lowest input-lag monitor like ASUS ROG would turn me into a much better player, but these things do help. So, are there any mouse pad recommendations you guys can provide? Consider that there is no budget limit, although I am not spending $1000 on a mouse pad!


What you were lacking was friction/stopping power. I'd stick with the qck. Expensive mousepads are a waste of money.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Current mouse is a Logitech MX310 that sports 800 DPI. Usually in CS:S I have to put the sensitivity up to 15-20


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*


You've never messed with the sensitivity of the mouse in Counter Strike? Not sure what it would translate to but 800 isn't good for me.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> You've never messed with the sensitivity of the mouse in Counter Strike? Not sure what it would translate to but 800 isn't good for me.


800 CPI and 15-20 sens in CS is 2.5 to 3.5 cm/360. What do


----------



## metal571

Obviously he was talking about the 15-20 part. Max is (was?) a professional CS player.

That is WAY, WAY too high of a sensitivity. You should be playing that game at at least 20-30cm, about 10x slower than you are now. Any sensitivity above about 3 or 4 or so is going to have some pretty annoying pixel skipping.


----------



## dmasteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Obviously he was talking about the 15-20 part. Max is (was?) a professional CS player.
> 
> That is WAY, WAY too high of a sensitivity. You should be playing that game at at least 20-30cm, about 10x slower than you are now. Any sensitivity above about 3 or 4 or so is going to have some pretty annoying pixel skipping.


Max a Professional CS player?

Stop.


----------



## metal571

That's what he said, not me


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Obviously he was talking about the 15-20 part. Max is (was?) a professional CS player.
> 
> That is WAY, WAY too high of a sensitivity. You should be playing that game at at least 20-30cm, about 10x slower than you are now. Any sensitivity above about 3 or 4 or so is going to have some pretty annoying pixel skipping.


Honestly I've never really delved all tht deep into it. I do not play competitive and that is the level (that I've found) that actually makes it playable and usually able to keep my kills above my deaths. Almost anything below 12-15 (sensitivity ) is just so incredibly slow seeming that everything just tanks kill wise.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's what he said, not me


No I didn't. Stop making things up.

You seem to have a consistent problem with that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> Honestly I've never really delved all tht deep into it. I do not play competitive and that is the level (that I've found) that actually makes it playable and usually able to keep my kills above my deaths. Almost anything below 12-15 (sensitivity ) is just so incredibly slow seeming that everything just tanks kill wise.


lol................. maybe you have acceleration turned on somehow.

What's your rank in CSGO?


----------



## Wolfeshaman

No
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No I didn't. Stop making things up.
> 
> You seem to have a consistent problem with that.
> lol................. maybe you have acceleration turned on somehow.
> 
> What's your rank in CSGO?


Not sure if there is one yet. I've never played the match system on there only community servers. I play more CS:S than GO


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> No
> Not sure if there is one yet. I've never played the match system on there only community servers. I play more CS:S than GO


Do you know if you're using accel or not?

Is this box checked in window's mouse control panel?



Do you have a ruler? If not, you can use a dollar bill which is 6" long. If you fold it in half it's 3". Go in game and tell us how many inches or cm of mouse movement it takes to do a 360 degree turn.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Accel was indeed turned off actually just got done checking out the stats in the games after checking that.

CS:GO K/D 0.912 with 13 hours
CS;S 0.8 with 210 hours

there is no ranking at all with CS:GO.

With the mouse accel off it takes the entire length of the bill to do a full 360. that is with the sensitivity turned @ 20.

I've never been able to get an actual decent mouse before and finding one that fits my hand is another matter as well.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> Accel was indeed turned off actually just got done checking out the stats in the games after checking that.
> 
> CS:GO K/D 0.912 with 13 hours
> CS;S 0.8 with 210 hours
> 
> there is no ranking at all with CS:GO.
> 
> With the mouse accel off it takes the entire length of the bill to do a full 360. that is with the sensitivity turned @ 20.
> 
> I've never been able to get an actual decent mouse before and finding one that fits my hand is another matter as well.


Is the windows slider in the middle?

Something's not adding up here.

You say your mouse is 800dpi, but even with 400dpi 20sensitivity would mean it would only take 2 inches to complete a 360: http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html - input your values here and you'll see.

7 sensitivity at 400dpi would equal 6 inches for a 360. Which is still insanely high.

Either way, I'd say stick with your mx310 unless you don't like it. I don't know much about its sensor but it's listed under the "gaming sensor" list, so I don't see it being problematic for someone as casual as you.

You might give the Kone Pure Military a try though. It has the best sensor of recent gaming mice, but it's a bit small and the shape isn't great, and the coating's not good for dry hands. There isn't a great choice at the moment.


----------



## ThornTwist

I have a G600, how is the sensor in that thing? I can't say I can complain about it, just want to know.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Is the windows slider in the middle?
> 
> Something's not adding up here.
> 
> You say your mouse is 800dpi, but even with 400dpi 20sensitivity would mean it would only take 2 inches to complete a 360: http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html - input your values here and you'll see.
> 
> 7 sensitivity at 400dpi would equal 6 inches for a 360. Which is still insanely high.
> 
> Either way, I'd say stick with your mx310 unless you don't like it. I don't know much about its sensor but it's listed under the "gaming sensor" list, so I don't see it being problematic for someone as casual as you.
> 
> You might give the Kone Pure Military a try though. It has the best sensor of recent gaming mice, but it's a bit small and the shape isn't great, and the coating's not good for dry hands. There isn't a great choice at the moment.


I counted out the ticks over on the windows slider and its in the middle @ 6. The Accel is in fact turned off in Windows, Sensitivity has been set to 20 in CS:S with the mouse accel (now) turned off. The sensor is not really what I'm looking to get its more I would like a bigger mouse. My hand length is about 7 inches (using dollar bill as a reference) and about 4 inches wide.

Note: Just tested it again with the mouse accel turned off in CS:S and it is only taking about half the bill maybe a little under. How I am testing this is lining the sensor up with the edge of the bill and then moving the mouse in a straight line sideways along the length of the bill. right now seems like it really depends on how fast the mouse is moving when testing the 360 spin. First one was done with sliding it along at a moderate pace and second was more as if in game,

Etiher was like stated its not really the sensor that is bothering me its more the size and constantly having my pinky dragging on the mouse mate as claw grip is incredibly uncomfortable for me.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No I didn't. Stop making things up.
> 
> You seem to have a consistent problem with that.
> lol................. maybe you have acceleration turned on somehow.
> 
> What's your rank in CSGO?


Okay this time I'm genuinely sorry because I could have sworn you played tournaments at some high level or something. Not sure what kind of definition of a player you were lol


----------



## bluedevil

Having a few issues with my Rival with fitment. I think I am wanting a more palm grip. My mouse hand, pinky finger more or less, is very uncomfortable. Since having surgery on it last year, unless the finger is fully extended, it aches. So this leads me to think I need a more "full figured" mouse like the Func MS-3 rev 2.
http://www.func.net/en/products/ms-3-revision-2/

Thoughts?

Here are some pics to explain what I am issuing.


----------



## metal571

Try the Naos 7000. Similar highly ergonomic shape, better sensor.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Try the Naos 7000. Similar highly ergonomic shape, better sensor.


Hi, I would still like to know how the sensor is in the Logitech G600. I took a look at the mouse you listed above and it seems like it would work for me but has too few buttons. I usually play RPGs so I need a lot of buttons for combat abilities and such. I know there is no perfect mouse, but I would like one that has a lot of buttons, is ergonomic for a palm grip, and has a good sensor. I would not like acceleration. I would however like very good and accurate software to program the mouse buttons and DPI. Would you suggest the G502?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Hi, I would still like to know how the sensor is in the Logitech G600. I took a look at the mouse you listed above and it seems like it would work for me but has too few buttons. I usually play RPGs so I need a lot of buttons for combat abilities and such. I know there is no perfect mouse, but I would like one that has a lot of buttons, is ergonomic for a palm grip, and has a good sensor. I would not like acceleration. I would however like very good and accurate software to program the mouse buttons and DPI. Would you suggest the G502?


G600 - 9800, so all the acceleration is always gonna be there.

G502 is quite heavy, and depending on how your hand sits on it it may or may not work for palm because of the sniper button. You could take a look at the G602.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> G600 - 9800, so all the acceleration is always gonna be there.
> 
> G502 is quite heavy, and depending on how your hand sits on it it may or may not work for palm because of the sniper button. You could take a look at the G602.


This one?


----------



## metal571

Yeah that's the same one


----------



## bluedevil

So in terms of sensor, is the Deathadder 2013 bad?


----------



## metal571

I don't think the Chroma or 2013 are bad mice at all, they're just the last optical mice I would recommend to someone as there are both more reliable choices out there and also models with less smoothing, regardless of if you would notice it or not.


----------



## bluedevil

Think I am gonna hold off...maybe adjust my grip and see if the riVal will work for me.


----------



## ayktekc

What's your grip style?
Claw - Hybrid Style
What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI - 2 to 3 Sensitivity in CS:GO
What's your maximum budget?
100$
Do you want additional buttons?
Mouse4 - Mouse5 enough
What games do you play?
Only CS:GO now
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
I had issues with Steelseries Rival. I feel cramp on my hands when i want to grip my Rival its big for me.

My list:
Zowie FK1
G402
G502
Minionix Avinor 7000
Razer Deathadder Chroma

but you can offer me other mouses too sorry my bad english thank you for help guys.


----------



## akromatic

I'm in need of a new mouse because my recently acquired G602 is a horrible POS and not usable.

[*] What's your grip style?

hybrid everything, i try to accommodate my mouse as long as i can pivot on my wrist and move my mouse from there

[*] What's your sensitivity?

3000-4000dpi for now, i need it higher eventually while i retrain back to high sens( training for low sens proved to be a mistake) also i need to be able to do <2cm/360 in CS:GO(which i am at currently). at my current sensitivity i'm unable to aim and shoot properly because my mouse just moves too slow and always fall short and unable to follow my target fast enough. I'm lazy with my hand movement and the more I move my hand the less accurate i become, so i'm better with minimal mouse movement and im better at controlling minimal movement.

i need to cover my screen within 1cm of movement and sensor acceleration helps me with that

so whatever that is in the G602 i do not want, its the most horrible sensor(except for the PTE sensor in my MMO7) i've ever used in terms of movement. its designed for low sens user and the minimal movement it requires for the sensor to register results in a massive step on my screen rather then a progressive step and it also means more physical movement then i want.

[*] What's your maximum budget?

none, i pay anything for the right one

[*] Do you want additional buttons?

as many as i can get, ideally somewhere around the MMO7 but more importantly is the button layout needs to be intuitive. and obviously a sniper button

[*] What games do you play?

everything

[*] Do you mind about prediction?

don't care as long as its optional, wouldnt mind acceleration too and in fact it might even be preferred. I'm used to acceleration and i like its non linear scale

[*] Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

LOD? no i dont lift off ever
Ambi? would be nice but not a must have, i do sometimes use my mouse with left hand to battle RSI but i can get another lower cost ambi mouse for that.
weight? dont care, dont mind heavy ether but light on the other hand feels awkward
cord? braided charging cord is nice to have but no cords for me thanks
gloss? matt please but i take what is available
button actuation? medium and ideally a heavier right click
on board memory would be a nice have
and i dont need one with crazy M/s as i dont even move my mouse fast or enough for it to matter.

others: as mention it needs to be wireless, non optical, i need thumb + pinky rests(but i can mod one on if need be but preferred that i dont have to ), cable mode for charging and data over cable, nano/tiny receiver (no desk bricks as receivers) so its more portable and less things to bring/care about for LAN and ideally run off AA batteries.

so TL;DR a cordless MMO7 with cable mode and nano receiver but without the PTE sensor. And everything that is not a G602 because it is wrong in so many ways including its sensor and button placement + lack of buttons to the grip(abit too tall) and lack of charging/cable mode.

i prefer not another logitech G product, i never liked any of their G stuff and i still dont. non G stuff are fine though but they are not gaming grade. I dont have a problem with razer's build quality but currently not fond of the brand because of their left4dead attitude once you are out of warranty when they recently decided my Orochi has lived long enough and bricked it via a synapse update when it was otherwise working flawlessly.

no issues with mad catz build quality ether but i dont want unless they changed their sensor since but no i do not want bluetooth as a gaming mouse


----------



## Jeemil89

I would maybe say Logitech Performance Mouse MX. Finding a mouse that has a cable and a Nano receiver is hard.
I don't want to criticize your gaming style, but the reason people prefer low sens and zero acceleration is to be more consistent with their aim and accuracy. Small corrections are also much easier.
Also I would highly suggest you stick to wired mice for gaming. The cable can't be that disturbing when moving a mouse 2 cm.
If you go with wired and comfort then Mionix naos 7000


----------



## Blze001

I'm glad there's a thread for this. I'm looking for a replacement for my Logitech trackball mouse... I moved to it as a way to help prevent repetitive strain, and now I'm looking to go back to a conventional mouse. (By the way, if anyone knows who in the gaming community decided to permanently assign functions to the middle mouse button and not give you an option to change it, please punch him on behalf of trackball users everywhere). My priority is comfort and ergonomics, I'm not a big competitive FPS gamer, so insanely high speed and precision is less of a concern.

What's your grip style?
Fingertip mainly, palm from time to time.

What's your sensitivity?
As long as there isn't a really noticeable input lag, doesn't matter. The Logitech I've been using was never meant to be a gaming mouse, so I'm probably less sensitive to input lag than most.

What's your maximum budget?
If it lets me game without hurting my wrist, I'll pay it.

Do you want additional buttons?
Nice but not needed.

What games do you play?
Skyrim, The Old Republic, and Borderlands mostly.

Do you mind about prediction?
As long as it doesn't encroach annoyingly on inputs.

Other relevant information:
I'd like to have a larger mouse that my whole hand can fit on. Part of the reason I developed the wrist issue was because I was resting the heel of my hand on the desk and doing everything from the wrist forward.


----------



## screwmancer

What's your grip style?
claw/fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
800
What's your maximum budget?
85$
Do you want additional buttons?
2 on the side
What games do you play?
league of legends, wow, skyrim, diablo 3/2,
Do you mind about prediction?
not realy
Other relevant information:
i would like an ergonomic mouse, 2 buttons on the left side, braided cord, matte finish, optical
I realy like the roccat savu. I also like the deathadder 13 but i read a lot of reviews regarding the build quality/double click.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 3000-4000dpi for now, i need it higher eventually while i retrain back to high sens( training for low sens proved to be a mistake) also i need to be able to do <2cm/360 in CS:GO(which i am at currently). at my current sensitivity i'm unable to aim and shoot properly because my mouse just moves too slow and always fall short and unable to follow my target fast enough. I'm lazy with my hand movement and the more I move my hand the less accurate i become, so i'm better with minimal mouse movement and im better at controlling minimal movement.
> 
> i need to cover my screen within 1cm of movement and sensor acceleration helps me with that
> 
> so whatever that is in the G602 i do not want, its the most horrible sensor(except for the PTE sensor in my MMO7) i've ever used in terms of movement. its designed for low sens user and the minimal movement it requires for the sensor to register results in a massive step on my screen rather then a progressive step and it also means more physical movement then i want.


Maybe the Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1 would be ok for you.

I play with 5600dpi (x + y) | 1000Hz Poll-Rate | no angle snapping | no scroll acceleration | BF4 Mouse Sensitivity 15%.

A Mouse Sensitivity of ~15-25% should roughly match your needs.


----------



## Jeemil89

There is a dealer here that sells the intellimouse explorer 3.0 for 50€. Do you guys think it's worth it?


----------



## sgtfluffybutt

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
Low to mid. Play CS:GO at 800dpi

What's your maximum budget?
£60

Do you want additional buttons?
MUST HAVE TILT WHEEL. Like the g500s and the g502.

What games do you play?
Mainly FPS

Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what that means. If its bad then no, if its good then yes.

Other relevant information:
Currently using the g502 and I'm not a fan of the shape, I prefer the shape of the g500s but the extra buttons don't feel that great to me.

g502 feels too much like a gaming mouse, I want an general use mouse that is good for games as well.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> There is a dealer here that sells the intellimouse explorer 3.0 for 50€. Do you guys think it's worth it?


It is very worth it if you use a mid to high sens or don't mind the neg accel after 1.6 m/s. Best feeling sensor I have ever used.


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> I would maybe say Logitech Performance Mouse MX. Finding a mouse that has a cable and a Nano receiver is hard.
> I don't want to criticize your gaming style, but the reason people prefer low sens and zero acceleration is to be more consistent with their aim and accuracy. Small corrections are also much easier.
> Also I would highly suggest you stick to wired mice for gaming. The cable can't be that disturbing when moving a mouse 2 cm.
> If you go with wired and comfort then Mionix naos 7000


i have one of those performance MX mouses, good mouse too but its not that good for gaming.

well so far ones with nano receivers and cable is the G700s

the issue is i actually lose consistency when in motion because i lose my reference point and its harder for me to stop accurately while in motion.

the issue with low sens with me is that its too slow for me to follow a target because i dont really move my whole arm and im lazy with large fast movements and i often over shot my intended target and need to re compensate and all this is costing me deaths

high sense means i can compensate for the above as im better with fine minor adjustments.

cable wise , it is bloody disturbing. i tend to use my mouse all over my desk depending on the space i need or ergo/relaxed positions. I've tried cable with bungee but i run into the issue of sometimes its too long and it drags and snags things on the desk and sometimes its too short and restricts me when i point my mouse to a different angle

i can live without the cable mode but a smaller dongle is a must have because i transport my rig round and often use a notebook so i prefer to have my dongles plugged in and left there without chances of it snapping


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayktekc*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw - Hybrid Style
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 DPI - 2 to 3 Sensitivity in CS:GO
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mouse4 - Mouse5 enough
> What games do you play?
> Only CS:GO now
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> I had issues with Steelseries Rival. I feel cramp on my hands when i want to grip my Rival its big for me.
> 
> My list:
> Zowie FK1
> G402
> G502
> Minionix Avinor 7000
> Razer Deathadder Chroma
> 
> but you can offer me other mouses too sorry my bad english thank you for help guys.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 3000-4000dpi for now, i need it higher eventually while i retrain back to high sens( training for low sens proved to be a mistake) also i need to be able to do <2cm/360 in CS:GO(which i am at currently). at my current sensitivity i'm unable to aim and shoot properly because my mouse just moves too slow and always fall short and unable to follow my target fast enough. I'm lazy with my hand movement and the more I move my hand the less accurate i become, so i'm better with minimal mouse movement and im better at controlling minimal movement.
> 
> i need to cover my screen within 1cm of movement and sensor acceleration helps me with that


What are you playing inside a suitcase?


----------



## Natskyge

So i have been looking for a New mousse for some time since my Naga,s sensor is freaking out

I have ben looking at: roccat kone XTD, kone XTD optical, kone PURE, kone PURE optical, razer deathadder 2013, deathadder chroma, logitech g502 and 402

what om looking for: light, 2 good thumb buttons, reliabel and good sensor, good scrole whel and it must be god for palm grip

My current dpi 1800

Wat Would be the best choice for me?


----------



## BizkitBoy

Hi everyone,

Currently own a Steelseries Ikari MMO mouse made for WoW, but I managed to destroy its left click by bashing it a few times when I was really pissed. The click still works, but I have to press a lot harder for it to work. It's really old, have it for about 4-5 years and it now looks horrible... the exterior material peeled off really bad.
Offtopic: Just out of curiosity, if I open the mouse do you think I can do something about the click? Is it fixable or I messed it up for good?
Coming back to the thread, the thing is I really like these MMO mice from Steelseries. I find the button positioning very easy to use and they can be used in other games too, not just WoW. It helped me a lot in other games. Also, I like that it's big because my hand can grip it very well. So I would like to stick to Steelseries and am fairly looking and its successor Cataclysm MMO. But I read the same nasty thing that the exterior peals off in time due to sweaty hands... are they all like that or is it because of the place (factory) they're built? I'm looking to buy from the US. The Ikari I have was bought from Europe.
Also, any opinions on the Wireless MMO? Does it have better build quality?


----------



## Lagahan

My Sensei is starting to die so I'm gonna be in the market for a new mouse over the next few months, could do with some suggestions!

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
400DPI, 3.9 in CS:GO, 5/11 Windows, pointer precision disabled.
What's your maximum budget?
No max, want the comfiest I can get.
Do you want additional buttons?
Ideally 4 extra buttons other than the usual left,right,scroll.
What games do you play?
Mostly FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Would rather no prediction and as little inbuilt acceleration as possible.
Other relevant information:
Had a Steelseries IKARI before I got this Sensei and much preferred its shape. Would like something as big as a Func MS-3 but I've seen a lot of people having issues with this mouse, that the sensor jitters and accelerates a lot. Would probably just go for it if I could frankenstein an optical sensor into it!


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> What are you playing inside a suitcase?


i just cant control/ handle large mouse movements. i lose accuracy and speed.

I'm lazy with mouse movements so the little that i need to move it the better and the more accurate i can control it


----------



## cryptos9099

What's your grip style?
Palm or Claw, depending on the length of the mouse
What's your sensitivity?
Prefer around 800 dpi... I have 1.22 CSGO sens with 6/11 Windows w/ MarkC applied
What's your maximum budget?
$60 USD Firm
Do you want additional buttons?
2 extra buttons is my preference (I bind VOIP clients to Button 4 and Reload in FPS games to button 5)
What games do you play?
CSGO, BF3/4 as my FPS's and Civ games
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes I do quite a bit; I have been working on my over-aim so the minimal prediction/acceleration the better.
Other relevant information:
Having owned a DA2013, I've had decent experience that has slowly soured over time. The build quality of the DA2013 is not where I like it along with the weight and the length. The weight is a little too light for my taste which makes it a little hard to control. I have a 17.7 cm/7" (measured from the tip of the middle finger to the mid-wrist) by 16.8 cm/6.6" (measured from tip of the thumb to the first knuckle of the pinky, fully extended) hand so the DA2013 is a little awkward for me; I can't use it as a palm mouse as my fingers are too long and clawing is slightly uncomfortable. I have a Roccat Tatio as my mousepad and I have mixed feelings about it, but for now cleaning it every couple of weeks seems to keep my opinions about it down.


----------



## Xiamath

My KPM arrived today, and i really like its shape / finish but i've 2 problems:

- the left mouse button seems to be a bit higher than the right, when releasing the button the left one seems to have a more space between the switch and its resting place
- the roccat programs take 10+ seconds to change the settings everytime i click apply

Is this normal?


----------



## skajohyros

I have not paid much attention to the buttons on my kpm...they simply work. The software should take 1-2 secs to apply changes.


----------



## HarbingerOfLive

After dealing with this for a while I think it's high time I got a new mouse. My current Steelseries Sensei has this weird issue of randomly deciding to scroll in the opposite direction when I'm using the scroll wheel. Really gets annoying and kinda breaks games like League.

I'm really just looking for something with good build quality. The Sensei does have functionality to switch between two sensitivities easily which I also would really love to have again. I hold my mouse in a palm grip, and I mostly play FPS games, League, and WoW









Thanks you guys!


----------



## metal571

People who had a Sensei - look at the Zowie FK1 and Mionix Avior 7000


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> So i have been looking for a New mousse for some time since my Naga,s sensor is freaking out
> 
> I have ben looking at: roccat kone XTD, kone XTD optical, kone PURE, kone PURE optical, razer deathadder 2013, deathadder chroma, logitech g502 and 402
> 
> what om looking for: light, 2 good thumb buttons, reliabel and good sensor, good scrole whel and it must be god for palm grip
> 
> My current dpi 1800
> 
> Wat Would be the best choice for me?


Any help?


----------



## Jhereg10

Wonder if you guys can assist me:

What's your grip style? Palm grip
What's your sensitivity? Not sure.
What's your maximum budget? If the feel and quality are right I could go $100+
Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary
What games do you play? Strategy and space simulation games.
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure.
Other relevant information: I have an RSI on my right arm, so I mouse with my left without swapping the buttons. Result is a bit awkward. I also have very long hands, about 7.75" / 19.6 cm long from wrist to fingertip. So I'm looking for a largish left-handed or ambidextrous mouse. I don't require high gaming performance. I use Linux primarily.

Thanks all!


----------



## buzztiger

*What's your grip style?*
I switch between claw grip and finger grip. I use my wrist as a pivot point. Measurement from the bottom of my wrist to tip of middle finger is 17cm.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Mostly play at 800dpi or 1000dpi. About 20cm/360degree in call of duty

*What's your maximum budget?*
About $80 USD (I live in southeast asian region and prices here differ abit)
*
Do you want additional buttons?*
I really need at least 1 side button which i use for tossing nades.

*What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS. Call of duty and Battlefield 3

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I do not want prediction or acceleration.

*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

I currently own a logitech g502. It is too heavy for me and I find it difficult to move around. The shape is also abit weird for me as my previous mouse was a razer diamondback. The g502 shape causes some pain on my wrist. I have also borrowed a g100s to try out. The g100s is much easier to move around and I can aim much faster with it. The g100s shape is better compared to the g502( gives me more control). But it does not have the side button and the buttons require abit more force to actuate than the g502. I also wish that the sensor would be abit better than that in the g100s. I get sweaty palms in the heat of battle so something non glossy would really help. Is there any mouse that fits this description ?

Thanks.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jhereg10*
> 
> Wonder if you guys can assist me:
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Not sure.
> What's your maximum budget? If the feel and quality are right I could go $100+
> Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary
> What games do you play? Strategy and space simulation games.
> Do you mind about prediction? Not sure.
> Other relevant information: I have an RSI on my right arm, so I mouse with my left without swapping the buttons. Result is a bit awkward. I also have very long hands, about 7.75" / 19.6 cm long from wrist to fingertip. So I'm looking for a largish left-handed or ambidextrous mouse. I don't require high gaming performance. I use Linux primarily.
> 
> Thanks all!


Hehe, I have 21 cm long hands and I used to like palm grip, but it's just so frigging difficult to find a large good mouse. So i switched to fingertip grip and I'm happy now. Try a Zowie FK1, if you don't like it send it back.


----------



## Jhereg10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Hehe, I have 21 cm long hands and I used to like palm grip, but it's just so frigging difficult to find a large good mouse. So i switched to fingertip grip and I'm happy now. Try a Zowie FK1, if you don't like it send it back.


Thanks. I'll give it a shot.


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jhereg10*
> 
> Thanks. I'll give it a shot.


I also went from G502 to FK1 and to me its a much better mouse due to the shape and weight. Hope it suits your needs


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> I also went from G502 to FK1 and to me its a much better mouse due to the shape and weight. Hope it suits your needs


I just busted out the G402 yesterday to mess with it for no reason and noticed removing the two mouse feet by the sensor made the mouse movement crazy better. Not sure if you can remove them or not on the G502 without problems because they built a big, plastic island there that looks like it might be dangerous to remove.


----------



## buzztiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I just busted out the G402 yesterday to mess with it for no reason and noticed removing the two mouse feet by the sensor made the mouse movement crazy better. Not sure if you can remove them or not on the G502 without problems because they built a big, plastic island there that looks like it might be dangerous to remove.


I have the g502. The mouse feet near the sensor can be removed. Its just stick on like all other feet. I think its stupid to have more mouse feet on a mouse. It just gives so much more friction.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jhereg10*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if you guys can assist me:
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Not sure.
> What's your maximum budget? If the feel and quality are right I could go $100+
> Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary
> What games do you play? Strategy and space simulation games.
> Do you mind about prediction? Not sure.
> Other relevant information: I have an RSI on my right arm, so I mouse with my left without swapping the buttons. Result is a bit awkward. I also have very long hands, about 7.75" / 19.6 cm long from wrist to fingertip. So I'm looking for a largish left-handed or ambidextrous mouse. I don't require high gaming performance. I use Linux primarily.
> 
> Thanks all!


Well you don't need a gaming mouse. If you live near a Fry's Electronics you should find the mouse isle and pick whichever mouse fits your hand/grip best and has whatever other features you want.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> >what om looking for: light, 2 good thumb buttons, reliabel and good sensor, good scrole whel and it must be god for palm grip
> Any help?


No such thing. You're going to have to make a compromise in some area.

I think the KPM is your best bet. It's not especially great for palm grip, but that also depends on your hand dimensions. It's light - 90g, and has the best sensor of recent mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buzztiger*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I switch between claw grip and finger grip. I use my wrist as a pivot point. Measurement from the bottom of my wrist to tip of middle finger is 17cm.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Mostly play at 800dpi or 1000dpi. About 20cm/360degree in call of duty
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> About $80 USD (I live in southeast asian region and prices here differ abit)
> *
> Do you want additional buttons?*
> I really need at least 1 side button which i use for tossing nades.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Mostly FPS. Call of duty and Battlefield 3
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I do not want prediction or acceleration.
> 
> *Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> I currently own a logitech g502. It is too heavy for me and I find it difficult to move around. The shape is also abit weird for me as my previous mouse was a razer diamondback. The g502 shape causes some pain on my wrist. I have also borrowed a g100s to try out. The g100s is much easier to move around and I can aim much faster with it. The g100s shape is better compared to the g502( gives me more control). But it does not have the side button and the buttons require abit more force to actuate than the g502. I also wish that the sensor would be abit better than that in the g100s. I get sweaty palms in the heat of battle so something non glossy would really help. Is there any mouse that fits this description ?
> 
> Thanks.


Look into the 



. It has the best sensor of recent mice. It weighs 90g. I think its shape might have been designed for claw grip.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No such thing. You're going to have to make a compromise in some area.


Mionix naos 7000?


----------



## buzztiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Look into the
> 
> 
> 
> . It has the best sensor of recent mice. It weighs 90g. I think its shape might have been designed for claw grip.


Thanks for the suggestion. But the roccat kone pure military is about USD $105 here. Its over my budget. By the way nice video comparing the fk1 and roccat mice.

After searching google for a mouse, I came up with a few options steelseries kana v2, roccat savu and roccat kone pure which are within my budget. Anyone has tried these mouse ? Some comparison between them and the g502 would be nice. Thanks.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Mionix naos 7000?


That's a primarily fingertip grip mouse, and the sensor is worse than the KPM, though I heard they're releasing a firmware to improve that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buzztiger*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. But the roccat kone pure military is about USD $105 here. Its over my budget. By the way nice video comparing the fk1 and roccat mice.
> 
> After searching google for a mouse, I came up with a few options steelseries kana v2, roccat savu and roccat kone pure which are within my budget. Anyone has tried these mouse ? Some comparison between them and the g502 would be nice. Thanks.


G502 is really heavy.

For fingertip & claw the kana v2 is probably your best bet. I think the savu sensor is said to be the best out of those 3 but it looks like a palm grip mouse. Just do a search for the weights of the mice. For fingertip grip you want a light mouse. The FK1 and KPM are both 90g. G502 is like 140 or something.

FK1 isn't an option?


----------



## buzztiger

Yes the G502 is HEAVY and it does not glide well due the crazy amounts of mouse feet tat they stick on it. I can't game for more than 1 hr. It just fatigues me.
But I read somewhere here that they messed with the FK1 sensor to make it 2300dpi which makes it feel abit weird. I think you have mentioned this in ur video too Maximiliankohler.

If I am not wrong the roccat Savu and steelseries kana v2 uses the avago 3090 sensor. I now gotta find a store that has roccat savu on display to try out its shape. I just hope the kana v2 sensor is better than the g100s sensor.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buzztiger*
> 
> Yes the G502 is HEAVY and it does not glide well due the crazy amounts of mouse feet tat they stick on it. I can't game for more than 1 hr. It just fatigues me.
> But I read somewhere here that they messed with the FK1 sensor to make it 2300dpi which makes it feel abit weird. I think you have mentioned this in ur video too Maximiliankohler.
> 
> If I am not wrong the roccat Savu and steelseries kana v2 uses the avago 3090 sensor. I now gotta find a store that has roccat savu on display to try out its shape. I just hope the kana v2 sensor is better than the g100s sensor.


FK and FK1 are different mice. FK was 2300dpi. FK1 is 3200dpi.

It is true that messing with the dpi affected the feel of the sensor, but most manufacturers do this with their mice. The KPM is an anomaly.

If you are wanting a sensor better than the g100s I doubt the kana v2 will provide that for you. I haven't tested it myself but have read bad things about it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1440395/avago-3090-4000-dpi-rom-is-not-a-valid-gaming-mouse-sensor-please-release-a-firmware-update-to-save-the-kana-v2/0_50

Interesting that you can tell the g100s is not that great of a sensor from playing COD and BF... From what I've seen most people who play those kinds of games can't tell the difference from one sensor to another.

In fact, the reason I didn't recommend an MLT04 mouse is because you were playing those games... But it might be something you'd want to consider as they are even better than the KPM: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## buzztiger

I just felt that harder to hit shots in battlefield 3 were much better with g502 than the g100s. for close to mid range combat the sensor difference did not matter. It felt the same. Its when the combat is at longer ranges where the enemy is behind cover where i felt the difference. I can better hit enemy behind cover ( showing very little of their head) at longer ranges with g502 than the g100s. Usually the first shot that lands when using g502 will kill em. With the g100s it more like spray and pray. I don't hate the g100s sensor. It is very good for its price. If the g100s had a side button I will just use it happily.

Can anyone who has tried steelseries kana v2 and g100s provide some comparison ? Thanks.


----------



## hza

G302 has a similar shape as G100s and offers 2 side buttons.


----------



## buzztiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> G302 has a similar shape as G100s and offers 2 side buttons.


Omg, I did not know logitech had released this mouse until u mentioned it. Thanks will google it.


----------



## phazer11

1. What's your grip style?

A mixture between fingertip and claw most of the time with occasional palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?

I usually set my Naga Epic between 1800-3000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
Maximum budget is probably around $80 my comfort zone is $50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I don't use the additional buttons that often but they do sometimes come in handy.

5. What games do you play?

I play MOBA's like League of Legends, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Bioshock Series on occasion, Starcraft II online, along with several other types.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prediction might help some in other situations other than gaming so it might be a bonus.

7. Other relevant information:
I do a lot of programming, video editing, photo editing and such apart from gaming. This is for a laptop as well. I was doing well with my Logitech V450 and never really noticed any lag on it. I have a Razer Naga Epic but the cord is a bit long for the laptop usage.

I can get these (below) locally from Best Buy and can get them to price match as well. I noticed the g700s is on sale for today on amazon so I could get that today in Best Buy for that price.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-m525-wireless-mouse-red/3437126.p?id=1218403403866&skuId=3437126
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-g700s-rechargeable-laser-gaming-mouse-black/8785461.p?id=1218893504509&skuId=8785461
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/razer-deathadder-2013-gaming-mouse-black/8157061.p?id=1218864523065&skuId=8157061
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/razer-taipan-expert-gaming-mouse-black-silver-green/6266378.p?id=1218725179360&skuId=6266378

Another couple I've been looking at is.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826570025

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Prime-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00OHJY7C2

As well as a few other but I haven't gotten much info on them and from what I have looked at I don't thin they're worth listing. I know there is the Hyperion and Proteus from Logitech but idk.

I would like to be able to pick it up at best buy or get it by Monday (it's Sunday here) as I need to leave for Thanksgiving and my laptop chose the worst time to kick it on me (it's at least 5 years old)


----------



## hza

G700(s) has a very nice ergonomical shape and doesn't feel laggy while gaming (A friend let me try his G700). You could also have a look into a Roccat Kone Pure Military. Small-Mid'ish size (smaller than G500 as comparison), nice sensor. In short you'll either like the shape a lot instantly or hate it. Otherwise it's one of the best mice available (that has not an old sensor in it). It should work well for your grip, however.


----------



## katarn55

What's your grip style?
palm/claw
What's your sensitivity?
800-1600
What's your maximum budget?
30-40$
Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons, scroll wheel as a button
What games do you play?
FPS, TPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
I have used a Logitech MX400 which i really liked. Looking for something similar. Somekind of macro option in the mouse software would be good.


----------



## YoTcA

What's your grip style?
mostly claw, sometimes palm
What's your sensitivity?
1100 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
80€
Do you want additional buttons?
2 thumb buttons
What games do you play?
mostly RTS (Starcraft II), some moba and FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
I do not think that I would notice it too much, but would like to avoid it, if possible
Other relevant information:
I became alergic to 'soft-touch' rubber coatings. At least to the one on the Logitech G400 and the Wacom bamboo pen. That is the main reason I am searching for a new mouse, because I am tired of playing with a glove.
So yeah, I am on the search for a rubber free mouse.
My mouse history: Logitech Dual Optical, MX518. G400, Mad Catz Rat 7
I would stay with logitech, but all their mice seem to have the same coating that I am unable to use... The Rat was the first mouse I tried without a rubber coating, but it stopped tracking from time to time, which got worse over time. So I am on the search again.
I found some Zowie mice, but they are kind of hard to get in Germany (high shipping fees). I am especially interested in the Zowie EC1 eVo CL, but have found different information on the coating they use. Maybe you can help me out with some inside knowledge.
I also found the EVGA Torq X10, but the sensor looks not as promising (read a lot about acceleration issues and inconsistencies). Although I am not sure, if I would notice the acceleration issue.
Maybe you can help me with more informations on the Zowie coatings or with other mouse suggestions.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## NessPJ

Hi all,

Been reading these forums for many years and only just decided to finally register an account.

My interest in more competitive play was recently sparked again and for this reason i thought i'd give my mouse usage another good look.
See, i've been using the MX510 > MX518 > G400 > G400s for many years but i have always noted that i seemed to have a more steady performance on a regular RX300/RX350 mouse.
It seems to me that even though i have been grown used to it... the G400s mouse shape/model is just slightly too big for me.

Now i did go through this topic (and the Logitech G302 one). But i was wondering here if anyone could post a size comparison of a G400 mouse next to a new G302 one?
I don't really have a place where i can go and demo this mouse around here and i am very curious to find out if this would be a good alternative to the Logitech G3 (which has been EOL for a while).

Coincidentally i did run into someone selling a mint G3 for only 10 bucks so i also jumped the gun on that one, just to give it a try!

Hope anyone here can help me!


----------



## catbuster

So I am looking for MMO mouse, 12 buttons on razer naga seems so much xD Currenly i am looking at naga hex or corsair m95 (rly intrested in this one)

What's your grip style?
palm
What's your sensitivity?
1800
What's your maximum budget?
100 euro
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, but 12 buttons seem too much
What games do you play?
MMORPG - Terra Online
Do you mind about prediction?
No
.


----------



## hza

Did you check out Logitech G602? It has side buttons (like 8 or so). It's wireless, but it shouldn't matter too much for your purpose. Just an idea.


----------



## KiLlerWiLd

Looking for a comfortable mouse to hold for several hours at a time.

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? Not sure but if it helps it's generally very low
What's your maximum budget? £50-65
Do you want additional buttons? Don't mind
What games do you play? Mostly Minecraft, Also CSGO etc. and other Action/FPS games mostly.
Do you mind about prediction? Wouldn't know til I tried it but probably not if it predicts where I'll click
Other relevant information: Wireless would be nice


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NessPJ*
> 
> i was wondering here if anyone could post a size comparison of a G400 mouse next to a new G302 one?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/350_50#post_23100943

http://i.imgur.com/mn78Y.jpg


----------



## NessPJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/350_50#post_23100943
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/mn78Y.jpg


Thanks for the input but that still makes it a bit tricky (G302 isn't listed there.. only the G3/G100 which is shown in a picture but isn't actually mentioned in the table).


----------



## MapRef41N93W

My Deathadder 2013 appears to be dying. Serious stutter out of the blue when dragging up. Would love to hear some recommendations on a new mouse. Has to be suitable for small hands, at least two side buttons (pref. not more), laser preferred, no crappy software, and around $100.

Thanks


----------



## metal571

Why would you prefer laser, elaborate about this.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Why would you prefer laser, elaborate about this.


Cause I have a laser mouse pad that I like that I just recently bought.


----------



## hza

What's a laser mouse pad?


----------



## Exolaris

Hey all. Looking for some mouse advice.

What's your grip style? Palm grip, decently large hands
What's your sensitivity? Low-medium sensitivity
What's your maximum budget? No cap
Do you want additional buttons? Yes
What games do you play? Mostly MMOs (WoW) and MOBAs, occasionally FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure what prediction is but I prefer no acceleration
Other relevant information: Nothing other than I prefer wired over wireless
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I am looking into the Logitech G502 - I am a big fan of Logitech products (not so much Razer's), but I'm reading that despite the excellent sensor, the G502 is a bit on the small side for palm grip users (me) or users with large hands (also me). My current daily driver is a Steelseries Sensei, but I don't like it as much as I thought I would. A ton of jitter, collects dust like crazy, etc.


----------



## kwewu

Choosing between Mionix Avior/Naos, Roccat Kone Pure, or R.A.T.

Looking for a good optical mouse. I think I've narrowed my search down to this handful. I'm looking for something that's good for a claw grip and not too small. I'm worried the Naos or R.A.T. would be really weird for a claw grip. Does the difference between 3000DPI and 7000DPI make a large difference? Depending on what I'm doing I like to use between 1500-3200DPI which would mean that I'd have no use for 7000DPI right? Is there something to be said for a sensor that can run 7000DPI being higher quality though?

Also looking for a good mouse surface.

Grip: Fingertip-Claw
Sensitivity: 1500-3000DPI
Budget: Unlimited
Buttons: A few extra is a nice luxury.
Games: DotA, SC2, sometimes CS:GO
Prediction: None.
Other: Pretty sure I want an optical for reliability. I have two cats and a dog so a single hair under my laser can cause some frustrating moments. Also, I don't want a SteelSeries. I like bells and whistles but not at the expense of core performance.


----------



## hza

The 7000 dpi on the Mionix mice are interpolated. More dpi doesn't make a mouse better. You want a small, but not too small mouse: Kone Pure Military. The Avior's side buttons may or may not bother you in case you didn't think about that.


----------



## kwewu

I'm using a SteelSeries Xai right now that is side buttons on both sides. Their placement doesn't bother me, only the shoddy quality of every SteelSeries product I've owned. The right-click on this mouse only works sometimes, and its been like that since a few weeks after I purchased it. I got over bothering with SteelSeries support when the charged me $3 a key to replace caps on my 7G that started breaking a few days after the board arrived. Oh yeah I had a SteelSeries headset that was horrible too....

I'm having trouble finding a place that has the Roccat Kone Pure Military in Canada. It is looking like a very nice option though. I just ordered an XTRAC Pad Hybrid. No idea when that will arrive but I've wanted one for a long time.


----------



## Yaruosu

1. Palm+fingertips
2. Mid preferebly, but any will do.
3. Low, around 27 dollars, or so.
4. Dont care
5. Some RPGs, Dota, sometimes TF2.
6. Dont mind, if senser is good overall.
7. CM Xornet is pretty much ok, even though its for Claw type grip. But cant really find one in my region now . Right now im use some a4tech x7 mous, its far more cheaper than 27 dollars, and its have bad performane. Actual DPI is 200, so i need to use high speed for cursor, and stuff. At least it build well


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yaruosu*
> 
> 1. Palm+fingertips
> 2. Mid preferebly, but any will do.
> 3. Low, around 27 dollars, or so.
> 4. Dont care
> 5. Some RPGs, Dota, sometimes TF2.
> 6. Dont mind, if senser is good overall.
> 7. CM Xornet is pretty much ok, even though its for Claw type grip. But cant really find one in my region now . Right now im use some a4tech x7 mous, its far more cheaper than 27 dollars, and its have bad performane. Actual DPI is 200, so i need to use high speed for cursor, and stuff. At least it build well


Logitech G100s maybe?


----------



## Yaruosu

Ehh, G100s is over 30 in my country, im upset.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Logitech G100s maybe?


btw, Razer Abyssus now have discount, is it worthy? Abyssus Mirror Edition actually.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kwewu*
> 
> I'm using a SteelSeries Xai right now that is side buttons on both sides. Their placement doesn't bother me, only the shoddy quality of every SteelSeries product I've owned. The right-click on this mouse only works sometimes, and its been like that since a few weeks after I purchased it. I got over bothering with SteelSeries support when the charged me $3 a key to replace caps on my 7G that started breaking a few days after the board arrived. Oh yeah I had a SteelSeries headset that was horrible too....
> 
> I'm having trouble finding a place that has the Roccat Kone Pure Military in Canada. It is looking like a very nice option though. I just ordered an XTRAC Pad Hybrid. No idea when that will arrive but I've wanted one for a long time.


I meant the side buttons on Avior are standing out a bit compared with similar mice.


----------



## kwewu

My pinky and ring finger go into an almost perfect half circle shape so any buttons on the right side probably wouldn't be a problem. I'm definitely leading towards a Roccat Kone Pure Military though since they don't try and gimp the sensor by pushing it to DPI levels it wasn't designed for. I have to respect them for not just inflating numbers for the sake of it. I've seen some people saying the Military is a little small. I found a video showing a Roccat Kone next to a Xai (which I'm currently using) and it looks like the Kone is a little shorter but also a little higher which would probably be ideal for my grip.






Its really hard to judge the size difference though from the perspective. I'm having trouble finding a photo of those mice side by side. Also I thought I read that the Military is slightly smaller than the Pure Optical.


----------



## hza

The mouse in that video is a Kone[+] ("normal" Kone size). Kone Pure/Kone Pure Color/Kone Pure Optical/Kone Pure Military are smaller. All Kone Pure mice should be the same size, just smaller than the current Kone XTD/Kone XTD Optical (that have the same size as the original Kone and its successor Kone[+]). I had a KPO in the past. Just the size was a tiny bit too small. From what I know KPM is even better and I liked the KPO already very much. I'd say give the KPM a try. If you like the size, you'll "love" the mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yaruosu*
> 
> 1. Palm+fingertips
> 2. Mid preferebly, but any will do.
> 3. Low, around 27 dollars, or so.
> 4. Dont care
> 5. Some RPGs, Dota, sometimes TF2.
> 6. Dont mind, if senser is good overall.
> 7. CM Xornet is pretty much ok, even though its for Claw type grip. But cant really find one in my region now . Right now im use some a4tech x7 mous, its far more cheaper than 27 dollars, and its have bad performane. Actual DPI is 200, so i need to use high speed for cursor, and stuff. At least it build well


Just wanted to add that palm with your fingertips touching the mouse is called claw. The original Abyssus is a decent mouse, definitely.


----------



## kwewu

OK, thanks. I think I'm definitely going to go with that one. There's a bundle with a KPM, Sense pad, and some game I don't really care about for $70-$80 but some of the sites list it as an 8200DPI Laser. I don't see how that's possible since there is no KPM laser so I may just take the chance and order it since its the only place that has it in stock.


----------



## hza

If I see it right, the game is called "War Thunder". However, don't worry about the illumination. It's 100 % infrared based and not vcsel. That means it's considered as an "Optical Mouse".


----------



## kwewu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> If I see it right, the game is called "War Thunder". However, don't worry about the illumination. It's 100 % infrared based and not vcsel. That means it's considered as an "Optical Mouse".


http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9515972&CatId=539

Just ordered that. Probably still in stock because its mislabelled. I don't see how that could possibly be anything other than the Military with a 5000DPI optical sensor. (R4?)


----------



## hza

No worries, it has an PixArt 3310 sensor arch and not 9800, so, it's what you want.


----------



## nyxcharon

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? >= 4000
What's your maximum budget? $70
Do you want additional buttons? Would prefer them, yes.
What games do you play? Pretty much all genres. MMO's, FPS, RPG's, etc.
Do you mind about prediction? No
Other relevant information:
Prefer smaller sized mice or flatter. Not a fan of the bigger round mice since my hands are a bit small, though I can manage if I have to. Adjustable DPI is also a huge plus
Been looking at these, but not sure what's good these days. Currently using a RAT 7. Only getting a new mouse because pretty sure this one is about to die. Open to anything else as well, this is just what caught my eye at first glance.
Logitech G502 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104934
Corsair m65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816033
Logitech G402 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104998
Corsair Sabre http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816038
EVGA TORQ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=26-188-002

Leaing towards the G502 or the Sabre. Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## doysh

What's your grip style?

*Palm/Claw hybrid.*

What's your sensitivity?

*Uh..I'm not sure how to answer this. When I play CS, sensitivity ranges from 2.1 to 2.4.*

What's your maximum budget?

*$60*

Do you want additional buttons?

*Don't care about buttons.*

What games do you play?

*Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and 1.6, Quake Live and Battlefield 3-4.*

Do you mind about prediction?

*Yes.*

Other information:

Right handed, hand is 19 cm. My current mouse is the Zowie EC2 eVo, and I'd like a mouse with similar performance, but built better.

I've owned the EC2 since January, and after approx. 3 months, the coating on the left side peeled off leaving a 1 cm by 1 cm hole in the rubber coating.

I would like to add that I treated the mouse with the utmost care, and never touched it with filthy hands or did anything that could cause coating to peel off after a mere 3 months.

I still have a Logitech MX518 I purchased in 2010 that held up much better than the Zowie.

I can only choose from the following brands: Corsair, Logitech, Razer, SteelSeries, Thermaltake, Zowie, CoolerMaster, Roccat and Zowie.

Mionix Mice are not available in my region.

Thank you.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doysh*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> *Palm/Claw hybrid.*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> *Uh..I'm not sure how to answer this. When I play CS, sensitivity ranges from 2.1 to 2.4.*
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> *$60*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> *Don't care about buttons.*
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> *Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and 1.6, Quake Live and Battlefield 3-4.*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> *Yes.*
> 
> Other information:
> 
> Right handed, hand is 19 cm. My current mouse is the Zowie EC2 eVo, and I'd like a mouse with similar performance, but built better.
> 
> I've owned the EC2 since January, and after approx. 3 months, the coating on the left side peeled off leaving a 1 cm by 1 cm hole in the rubber coating.
> 
> I would like to add that I treated the mouse with the utmost care, and never touched it with filthy hands or did anything that could cause coating to peel off after a mere 3 months.
> 
> I still have a Logitech MX518 I purchased in 2010 that held up much better than the Zowie.
> 
> I can only choose from the following brands: Corsair, Logitech, Razer, SteelSeries, Thermaltake, Zowie, CoolerMaster, Roccat and Zowie.
> 
> Mionix Mice are not available in my region.
> 
> Thank you.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

Kone pure military is the next best sensor. But the shape & coating aren't great.


----------



## hza

He means KPM shape wasn't made exactly for him. You have to try out yourself, I personally liked Kone Pure shape, just a little too small for ME. Otherwise it's a great mouse.


----------



## xner

What's your grip style? Believe it is a finger grip.
What's your sensitivity? 1600dpi I believe my mouse died.
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? Does not matter
What games do you play? DOTA2 and some mmo
Do you mind about prediction? No
Other relevant information:
I was looking for an upgrade to MX518/G400 but in a wireless function. Hopefully with all the reliability of the MX518 and durability. The size is just there but could be bigger and willing to take that compromise for wireless mouse.


----------



## daicon

*What's your grip style?* ANY. I'll adapt to what I'm using, mostly claw for now
*What's your sensitivity?* variable
*What's your maximum budget?* $25 - MAYBE $30
*Do you want additional buttons?* atleast one side button would be nice
*What games do you play?* CSGO, Starcraft 2
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
*Other relevant information:* Looking for something without prediction and a decent poling rate. Hope to use it for precise FPS play. I'm right handed, tend to like smaller mice.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daicon*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* ANY. I'll adapt to what I'm using, mostly claw for now
> *What's your sensitivity?* variable
> *What's your maximum budget?* $25 - MAYBE $30
> *Do you want additional buttons?* atleast one side button would be nice
> *What games do you play?* CSGO, Starcraft 2
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
> *Other relevant information:* Looking for something without prediction and a decent poling rate. Hope to use it for precise FPS play. I'm right handed, tend to like smaller mice.


Logitech g100s. Does not have a side button but a middle button


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxcharon*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? >= 4000
> What's your maximum budget? $70
> Do you want additional buttons? Would prefer them, yes.
> What games do you play? Pretty much all genres. MMO's, FPS, RPG's, etc.
> Do you mind about prediction? No
> Other relevant information:
> Prefer smaller sized mice or flatter. Not a fan of the bigger round mice since my hands are a bit small, though I can manage if I have to. Adjustable DPI is also a huge plus
> Been looking at these, but not sure what's good these days. Currently using a RAT 7. Only getting a new mouse because pretty sure this one is about to die. Open to anything else as well, this is just what caught my eye at first glance.
> Logitech G502 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104934
> Corsair m65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816033
> Logitech G402 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104998
> Corsair Sabre http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816038
> EVGA TORQ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=26-188-002
> 
> Leaing towards the G502 or the Sabre. Thanks for any suggestions.


Roccat Kone pure Military


----------



## MapRef41N93W

I bought a Mionix 7000 to replace my Deathadder. Turns out the mouse doesn't work for me (the design of the mouse has my ring finger in a bad positions and it ends up cramping). Have decided I want to go Logitech and looking for a suggestion on which to get.

Palm grip
3500 DPI
$100 budget
Two side buttons, NO RIGHT BUTTONS
Similar size to Deathadder (for smaller but not tiny hands)

Looking for wired with good sensor.


----------



## Screwball

G400?


----------



## Delight

Hey guys









What's your grip style? Looking for a claw grip. I loved my Razer Diamondback and Copperhead and currently I'm playing with a Logitech G9 that I really like.
What's your sensitivity? 1600dpi
What's your maximum budget? 80€ (German prices)
Do you want additional buttons? Left side back and forth button at least.
Do you mind about prediction? I don't know if I do or if my mice ever had prediction (my history: MX518->Copperhead->Diamondback->G9->G500)
Other relevant information: As you can see from my mouse-owning-history I can adapt to a lot of different form factors so I wouldn't say I'm too picky about that.
I'm playing Heroes Of The Storm, Starcraft 2 (a Dota-like game) and a bit of CS: GO so I'm looking for a light weight and fast mouse that I can move around easily.
I like my G9 but the left and right clicks on that mouse are harder to press than on my old Razer mice or even on my G500 so I would like my left and right clicks to be easy to spam.
I don't want another Razer mouse because the left and right click started dying on me within the first two years on both the Copperhead and Diamondback so I would like something more durable.
I was looking into the G302, not sure if that could be my G9 successor?

Thank you in advance, I really appreciate the help.


----------



## daicon

Is there any other option besides the logitech g100s? It's nice but if I was going to go for that price I'd really like to atleast have a side button


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xner*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Believe it is a finger grip.
> What's your sensitivity? 1600dpi I believe my mouse died.
> What's your maximum budget? $100
> Do you want additional buttons? Does not matter
> What games do you play? DOTA2 and some mmo
> Do you mind about prediction? No
> Other relevant information:
> I was looking for an upgrade to MX518/G400 but in a wireless function. Hopefully with all the reliability of the MX518 and durability. The size is just there but could be bigger and willing to take that compromise for wireless mouse.


Logitech G602 - prob. the "best" wireless option atm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> I bought a Mionix 7000 to replace my Deathadder. Turns out the mouse doesn't work for me (the design of the mouse has my ring finger in a bad positions and it ends up cramping). Have decided I want to go Logitech and looking for a suggestion on which to get.
> 
> Palm grip
> 3500 DPI
> $100 budget
> Two side buttons, NO RIGHT BUTTONS
> Similar size to Deathadder (for smaller but not tiny hands)
> 
> Looking for wired with good sensor.


Roccat KPM, Logitech G302 both small(er) mice
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daicon*
> 
> Is there any other option besides the logitech g100s? It's nice but if I was going to go for that price I'd really like to atleast have a side button


~ 50 $ Roccat Savu, Logitech 402, 302.


----------



## daicon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Logitech G602 - prob. the "best" wireless option atm
> Roccat KPM, Logitech G302 both small(er) mice
> ~ 50 $ Roccat Savu, Logitech 402, 302.


Thanks! Are there any options under 30 USD though? just a touch over that is my limit unfortunately.

Anything else you could suggest?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daicon*
> 
> Is there any other option besides the logitech g100s? It's nice but if I was going to go for that price I'd really like to atleast have a side button


The problem is you're looking for a budget mouse with premium features. Unfortunately for us, "premium" includes things such as side buttons (I wish I was joking). You're better off saving up some extra bucks rather than settling for something in that range tbh. There are plenty of great options in the $40-$60 range.


----------



## Bastyn99

My Roccat Kone[+] which has served me well for a couple of years is beginning to break down, so I need a replacement. Right now my main choice is a Roccat Kone XTD but I want to make sure im not missing anything good.

What's your grip style?
Fingertip Grip, little bit of Claw.
What's your sensitivity?
High
What's your maximum budget?
100 €
Do you want additional buttons?
All I need is a mouse wheel as a third button, and a fourth button on the side. 10+ buttons like the Razer Naga is a definite no go.
What games do you play?
Mainly RPGs and Mobas, some FPS.
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know if I've ever tried a mouse using it, so I don't know whether I like it or not. Im using a Roccat Kone[+] atm, if that has prediction, I want it, if it doesn't I probably don't want it, or atleast I want to be able to turn it off.
Other relevant information:
I don't want wireless, it has to be corded. I like large and heavy mice, since I use a high sensitivity and dont ever lift the mouse off the mousepad. I need to be able to adjust the sensitivity, but it doesnt have to be on the fly.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daicon*
> 
> Thanks! Are there any options under 30 USD though? just a touch over that is my limit unfortunately.
> 
> Anything else you could suggest?


Well, in your price range it's really tough. I don't know how good the Roccat Pyra Wireless is. I would save money for G602, if I wanted a wireless gaming mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastyn99*
> 
> My Roccat Kone[+] which has served me well for a couple of years is beginning to break down, so I need a replacement. Right now my main choice is a Roccat Kone XTD but I want to make sure im not missing anything good.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip Grip, little bit of Claw.
> What's your sensitivity?
> High
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100 €
> Do you want additional buttons?
> All I need is a mouse wheel as a third button, and a fourth button on the side. 10+ buttons like the Razer Naga is a definite no go.
> What games do you play?
> Mainly RPGs and Mobas, some FPS.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know if I've ever tried a mouse using it, so I don't know whether I like it or not. Im using a Roccat Kone[+] atm, if that has prediction, I want it, if it doesn't I probably don't want it, or atleast I want to be able to turn it off.
> Other relevant information:
> I don't want wireless, it has to be corded. I like large and heavy mice, since I use a high sensitivity and dont ever lift the mouse off the mousepad. I need to be able to adjust the sensitivity, but it doesnt have to be on the fly.


If you got used to Kone shape, I'd buy a Kone XTD/XTD Optical. Or maybe a Logitech G502 since it's heavier mouse.


----------



## hyacinth

Hi,

I'm looking for a smallish mouse with minimal bling/LEDs/crazy mechanical adjustable bits coming off it.

I've been using a Logitech MX510 for productivty and it's comfortable for productivity use, but it's not that comfortable for gaming.

What's your grip style?
_Claw style for gaming, with a preference for slightly smaller rather than large.
_
What's your sensitivity?
No idea... whatever comes standard on the MX510, though I usually bump up sensitivity slightly in games settings
What's your maximum budget?
_$60_

Do you want additional buttons?
_Yes, but only 2-3 (a couple for thumb and maybe one near the mousewheel)_

What games do you play?
_Pure FPS: Team Fortress 2, Planetside 2 (and I'm fairly sucky at both TBH)_

Do you mind about prediction?
No opinion on this, not something I've ever thought about._
_
Other relevant information:
_I'd like something with decent build quality and a bit of solidity to it. Years ago I owned a Razer and it seemed very light and plasticky
I'd prefer not to install software manufacturer for mouse control (it's just a mouse, it should be simple!)
Ratcheted mousewheel is a must- I find free-spinning mice to be really weird_


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hyacinth*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a smallish mouse with minimal bling/LEDs/crazy mechanical adjustable bits coming off it.
> 
> I've been using a Logitech MX510 for productivty and it's comfortable for productivity use, but it's not that comfortable for gaming.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> _Claw style for gaming, with a preference for slightly smaller rather than large.
> _
> What's your sensitivity?
> No idea... whatever comes standard on the MX510, though I usually bump up sensitivity slightly in games settings
> What's your maximum budget?
> _$60_
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> _Yes, but only 2-3 (a couple for thumb and maybe one near the mousewheel)_
> 
> What games do you play?
> _Pure FPS: Team Fortress 2, Planetside 2 (and I'm fairly sucky at both TBH)_
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No opinion on this, not something I've ever thought about._
> _
> Other relevant information:
> _I'd like something with decent build quality and a bit of solidity to it. Years ago I owned a Razer and it seemed very light and plasticky
> I'd prefer not to install software manufacturer for mouse control (it's just a mouse, it should be simple!)
> Ratcheted mousewheel is a must- I find free-spinning mice to be really weird_


G402, Zowie FK1, Roccat Kone Pure Military (or optical, or savu), Mionix Avior 7000 (massdrop)


----------



## hyacinth

Thanks for those suggestions, I'd only identified the Logitech so far.

Are optical mice still preferred over laser for lift off reasons these days?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hyacinth*
> 
> Thanks for those suggestions, I'd only identified the Logitech so far.
> 
> Are optical mice still preferred over laser for lift off reasons these days?


Laser is usually capable of lower stable LOD, but it is worth dealing with the slightly higher minimum LOD of optical due to their much lower tracking variance.


----------



## BizkitBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizkitBoy*
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Currently own a Steelseries Ikari MMO mouse made for WoW, but I managed to destroy its left click by bashing it a few times when I was really pissed. The click still works, but I have to press a lot harder for it to work. It's really old, have it for about 4-5 years and it now looks horrible... the exterior material peeled off really bad.
> Offtopic: Just out of curiosity, if I open the mouse do you think I can do something about the click? Is it fixable or I messed it up for good?
> Coming back to the thread, the thing is I really like these MMO mice from Steelseries. I find the button positioning very easy to use and they can be used in other games too, not just WoW. It helped me a lot in other games. Also, I like that it's big because my hand can grip it very well. So I would like to stick to Steelseries and am fairly looking and its successor Cataclysm MMO. But I read the same nasty thing that the exterior peals off in time due to sweaty hands... are they all like that or is it because of the place (factory) they're built? I'm looking to buy from the US. The Ikari I have was bought from Europe.


I received no reply, so let me ask again. Is the Steelseries Cataclysm MMO gonna end up like this after some months of usage? Someone who owned this must know.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

What's your grip style? Fingertip sometimes claw








What's your sensitivity? typically 800 some times 400 for photoshop
What's your maximum budget? whats a budget?








Do you want additional buttons? 2 Side buttons is enough
What games do you play? FPS mostly
Do you mind about prediction? acceleration, angle snapping etc can die in hell








Other relevant information: Driverless, non glossy (not to much of a problem tho) preferred also needs to work well on an Artisan Zero Mid








Got a G400 but the phantom scroll wheel bugs me and I wouldnt mind trying a different mouse, love the sensor tho


----------



## RedGreenGeek

Hi guys
Currently using r.a.t.9 but i was hoping to improve my game with a more suitable fps mouse.

What's your grip style?
palm
What's your sensitivity?
1400
What's your maximum budget?
The sky is the limit
Do you want additional buttons?
navigation on side
What games do you play?
fps
Do you mind about prediction?
Don't really know
Other relevant information:
Light weight. Good tracking wanted. Preferably free wheel scrolling


----------



## atari314

What's your grip style? *Claw*.
What's your sensitivity? *300, 800*.
What's your maximum budget? *Not a problem*.
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 1 side button on the left (can live with 2 tho)*.
What games do you play? *FPS*.
Do you mind about prediction? *Nope*.
Other relevant information:
Size? *Small, something around 115mm/4.1"(L), 55mm/2.1"(W), 35mm/1.3"(H)*.
Weight? *As light as possible*.
Wireless? *No, wired*.
Coating: *Glossy if possible or, at least, not "rubber" coating*.
Maybe there's something around these lines:



Tks in advance.


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atari314*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw*.
> What's your sensitivity? *300, 800*.
> What's your maximum budget? *Not a problem*.
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 1 side button on the left (can live with 2 tho)*.
> What games do you play? *FPS*.
> Do you mind about prediction? *Nope*.
> Other relevant information:
> Size? *Small, something around 115mm/4.1"(L), 55mm/2.1"(W), 35mm/1.3"(H)*.
> Weight? *As light as possible*.
> Wireless? *No, wired*.
> Coating: *Glossy if possible or, at least, not "rubber" coating*.
> Maybe there's something around these lines:
> 
> 
> 
> Tks in advance.


Zowie FK1 or the soon to be released FK2 should work fine

here is a image showing the size difference betwwen the two







hope its of use


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atari314*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw*.
> What's your sensitivity? *300, 800*.
> What's your maximum budget? *Not a problem*.
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 1 side button on the left (can live with 2 tho)*.
> What games do you play? *FPS*.
> Do you mind about prediction? *Nope*.
> Other relevant information:
> Size? *Small, something around 115mm/4.1"(L), 55mm/2.1"(W), 35mm/1.3"(H)*.
> Weight? *As light as possible*.
> Wireless? *No, wired*.
> Coating: *Glossy if possible or, at least, not "rubber" coating*.
> Maybe there's something around these lines:
> 
> 
> 
> Tks in advance.


The closest thing to what you want is a G100s, however it doesn't meet the side button criteria because it has no side buttons.









And also there's the soon to be shipped Ninox Aurora, but that one is rubber coated.


----------



## atari314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> Zowie FK1 or the soon to be released FK2 should work fine
> 
> here is a image showing the size difference betwwen the two
> 
> [...]
> 
> hope its of use


@ghostlacuna, awesome mouse! I didn't know this brand, and matches pretty great my requirements. Tyvm for the suggestion sir.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> The closest thing to what you want is a G100s, however it doesn't meet the side button criteria because it has no side buttons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also there's the soon to be shipped Ninox Aurora, but that one is rubber coated.


@Trull, I took a look on the G100s and it's a pretty solid alternative, also pretty easy to find on the market. In case I cannot get the Zowie, I'll fallback to the G100s. Tyvm sir for the suggestion.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedGreenGeek*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys
> Currently using r.a.t.9 but i was hoping to improve my game with a more suitable fps mouse.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1400
> What's your maximum budget?
> The sky is the limit
> Do you want additional buttons?
> navigation on side
> What games do you play?
> fps
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't really know
> Other relevant information:
> Light weight. Good tracking wanted. Preferably free wheel scrolling


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atari314*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw*.
> What's your sensitivity? *300, 800*.
> What's your maximum budget? *Not a problem*.
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 1 side button on the left (can live with 2 tho)*.
> What games do you play? *FPS*.
> Do you mind about prediction? *Nope*.
> Other relevant information:
> Size? *Small, something around 115mm/4.1"(L), 55mm/2.1"(W), 35mm/1.3"(H)*.
> Weight? *As light as possible*.
> Wireless? *No, wired*.
> Coating: *Glossy if possible or, at least, not "rubber" coating*.
> Maybe there's something around these lines:
> 
> 
> 
> Tks in advance.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Maximillion

Can we get just get that post by Kohler sticky'd at this point? It pretty much makes this thread irrelevant.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Can we get just get that post by Kohler sticky'd at this point? It pretty much makes this thread irrelevant.


I only link it to people who say their main game(s) are FPS.

You don't need gaming mice for non-fps games (and actually most of these crazy high sensitivity FPS players don't need them either), but since not everyone lives near a store like Fry's Electronics where they have long isles full of mice you can physically test, I mostly just don't reply.


----------



## Phaeder

Hi. I have been using Logitech G5 for about 8 years and I am looking for a new mouse. I'll use it on QCK mousepad.

I play mainly RPGs, CSGO and Dota.
Sensitivity in CSGO is about 50-60 cm for 360.
I use mainly palm grip.
I want the mouse to be similar to G5 in dimensions and weight and no prediction.
I need 2 thumb buttons and a button for changing cpi.
I am mainly looking at Naos 7000 (don't know about the right side of the mouse), Avior 7000 (palm grip?), G402 and G502.

Which mouse would you guys suggest for me? You can also recommend other mice.

Thanks!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I want comfortable (ergonomic?) mouse.


----------



## MrScaredyShroom

Hello,
*What's your grip style?*
Palm/Claw - combination of these two. Probably more of the palm one.
*What's your sensitivity?*
If this is DPI, I recently switched from about 2200 to much more accurate 800.
*What's your maximum budget?*
About 28$. I'll explain it later.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 programmable thumb buttons and middle mouse click.
*What games do you play?*
Mainly FPS (most of the source engine games) and strategy (Starcraft 2, Age of series).
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yeah, I mind a lot. Any acceleration, prediction.. _unacceptable_!
*Other relevant information:*
I have chosen this *optical* sensor: Avago ADNS-3080/3090 (also variants like the 3688/3888/3988/3095 and the new 3310) (copied from CS:GO reddit mouse guide), and I would more then prefer that one.
*Input anything else you want:* I would prefer to be able to change weight, but it's not the most important thing. I would also like some reasonable drivers, where I could easily add any keyboard/mouse button to any other buttons on the mice. Definitely wired. I can also add that I like the ergonomics shape of X-750BK much more then Sensei's one. Polling rate at least 500hz (better 1000hz, but X-748K actually seems to only have 500hz). I would also prefer middle to bigger ones, (about the size of 750-BK or Sensei)
So,
my current mouse is A4 Tech's X-750BK (laser Avago ADNS-A6010) - I switched back from my Steelseries Sensei (laser Avago ADNS-A9500) . I bought Sensei about a year ago, after reading many reviews and recommendations from (pro)gamers. After recent update, Steelseries have really great software, easy to manage and navigate, also with cloud backup. However, the laser sensor just kills it for me - I bought Sensei after I thought, my A4's sensor is jumpy because it is "cheap" gaming mouse and when I will buy "expensive one", the problem will be solved (yeah, now I know how stupid it was). It wasen't and now it got to a point, where I went back to actually LESS jumpy X-750BK. This is why I don't want to buy expensive mice a anymore (maybe Deathadder someday).
From THIS list, I have selected a few mices (price/sensor/experience), which looked good to me:

*A4 Tech* - X-718BK (A3080)
X-748K (A3080)

*Tesoro* - Gungnir H5 (A3090) (kind of pricy, only if I would knew It's really good)

*Thermaltake* - Azurues (A3080)
Saphira (A3090) (again, really pricy where I live)

After a lot of digging (forums!), I have chosen X-748K, as it is relatively cheap, has good optical sensor, similar shape to my Sensei, and I have some experience with A4's drivers (not the best but functional.. well.. at least sometimes).
Here where I live, there is absolutely NO chance to test your mice somewhere in some shop, so IF I would not be happy with the shape of X-748K, it would not be THAT bad for the price. I definitely don't want another "Sensei like" mouse here.
So, I will probably buy X-748K, but I would like to hear your suggestions and ideas for alternatives (if I don't like it, I will need some).
I'm also writing this for the second time, so maybe, I have forgotten something (that preview button should be renamed to delete) so please tell me to include any information you may need.
Thanks everybody for reply







.
Edit: After posting, I can now see preview of my old post again.. so I added some things.


----------



## DigitalOlive

What's your grip style? *I switch between fingertip and palm*
What's your sensitivity? *I'm not sure of what numbers I have used in the past for the mouse, but for game settings it is usually medium to high*
What's your maximum budget? *From what I have seen, price won't be an issue. I just want great quality.*
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes*
What games do you play? *Mostly FPS. On my PC I am playing Far Cry 4, Titanfall, and COD AW. I also will be playing Dungeon Crawlers, RPG, and RTS. Frequency will be as listed from left to right in decreasing order.*
Do you mind about prediction? *I don't know if I have used prediction or not, so I am unaware if this would be a determining factor.*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*

- I'm running Windows 8.1
- I'm 6'1 and have larger than normal hands with long fingers.
- Right handed
- Wired or Wireless are both fine.
- I'm not only looking for an awesome mouse, but one that will not break after a month. Reliability, warranty, and easy support are key factors. I want something that I'll be using daily for years.
- I would like extra buttons, but not like some of the MMORPG ones that seem to have a dozen on one side.*

- If possible, could you list a couple choices that meet the criteria I am looking for?
I'm running a new computer that came with a a small keyboard and mouse. I saw that there are combo packs but I think buying each individually would be better.

Thank you everyone!


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DigitalOlive*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *I switch between fingertip and palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *I'm not sure of what numbers I have used in the past for the mouse, but for game settings it is usually medium to high*
> What's your maximum budget? *From what I have seen, price won't be an issue. I just want great quality.*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes*
> What games do you play? *Mostly FPS. On my PC I am playing Far Cry 4, Titanfall, and COD AW. I also will be playing Dungeon Crawlers, RPG, and RTS. Frequency will be as listed from left to right in decreasing order.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I don't know if I have used prediction or not, so I am unaware if this would be a determining factor.*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> *
> 
> - I'm running Windows 8.1
> - I'm 6'1 and have larger than normal hands with long fingers.
> - Right handed
> - Wired or Wireless are both fine.
> - I'm not only looking for an awesome mouse, but one that will not break after a month. Reliability, warranty, and easy support are key factors. I want something that I'll be using daily for years.
> - I would like extra buttons, but not like some of the MMORPG ones that seem to have a dozen on one side.*
> 
> - If possible, could you list a couple choices that meet the criteria I am looking for?
> I'm running a new computer that came with a a small keyboard and mouse. I saw that there are combo packs but I think buying each individually would be better.
> 
> Thank you everyone!


Logitech G602, G502, G402
Roccat Kone Pure Military, Kone XTD (/Optical), Tyon
... what I would consider to buy based on your criteria. (Not really a fan of other brands, if I don't have to.)


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> I bought a Mionix 7000 to replace my Deathadder. Turns out the mouse doesn't work for me (the design of the mouse has my ring finger in a bad positions and it ends up cramping). Have decided I want to go Logitech and looking for a suggestion on which to get.
> 
> Palm grip
> 3500 DPI
> $100 budget
> Two side buttons, NO RIGHT BUTTONS
> Similar size to Deathadder (for smaller but not tiny hands)
> 
> Looking for wired with good sensor.


Bumping this with a change. I need a DPI of near 5000. Just got my 4k monitor and with my deathadder at 4000 it feels just a little bit too slow (4300 seems perfect). The G302 and G402 I have been recommended only hit 4000. Also the mouse has to have support for the ring finger similar to the Deathadder and unlike the Avior 7000. It doesn't have to be Logitech anymore either. NAOS 7000 actually seems perfect from the description and pictures but it's sold out everywhere (I don't want a used mouse).


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Question for you guys, would the FK1 be good for someone who changes between all 3 grip types? (yes I know, I'm weird) majority of the time I'm claw or fingertip


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Question for you guys, would the FK1 be good for someone who changes between all 3 grip types? (yes I know, I'm weird) majority of the time I'm claw or fingertip


IMO yes it should be fine.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> IMO yes it should be fine.


Cool







, is there anyway to change the mouse wheel to a white one or are you stuck with a yellow one?

Sorry for asking here, didnt wanna make a new thread and it seemed a logical choice


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrScaredyShroom*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm/Claw - combination of these two. Probably more of the palm one.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> If this is DPI, I recently switched from about 2200 to much more accurate 800.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> About 28$. I'll explain it later.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 programmable thumb buttons and middle mouse click.
> *What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS (most of the source engine games) and strategy (Starcraft 2, Age of series).
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yeah, I mind a lot. Any acceleration, prediction.. _unacceptable_!
> *Other relevant information:*
> I have chosen this *optical* sensor: Avago ADNS-3080/3090 (also variants like the 3688/3888/3988/3095 and the new 3310) (copied from CS:GO reddit mouse guide), and I would more then prefer that one.
> *Input anything else you want:* I would prefer to be able to change weight, but it's not the most important thing. I would also like some reasonable drivers, where I could easily add any keyboard/mouse button to any other buttons on the mice. Definitely wired. I can also add that I like the ergonomics shape of X-750BK much more then Sensei's one. Polling rate at least 500hz (better 1000hz, but X-748K actually seems to only have 500hz). I would also prefer middle to bigger ones, (about the size of 750-BK or Sensei)
> So,
> my current mouse is A4 Tech's X-750BK (laser Avago ADNS-A6010) - I switched back from my Steelseries Sensei (laser Avago ADNS-A9500) . I bought Sensei about a year ago, after reading many reviews and recommendations from (pro)gamers. After recent update, Steelseries have really great software, easy to manage and navigate, also with cloud backup. However, the laser sensor just kills it for me - I bought Sensei after I thought, my A4's sensor is jumpy because it is "cheap" gaming mouse and when I will buy "expensive one", the problem will be solved (yeah, now I know how stupid it was). It wasen't and now it got to a point, where I went back to actually LESS jumpy X-750BK. This is why I don't want to buy expensive mice a anymore (maybe Deathadder someday).
> From THIS list, I have selected a few mices (price/sensor/experience), which looked good to me:
> 
> *A4 Tech* - X-718BK (A3080)
> X-748K (A3080)
> 
> *Tesoro* - Gungnir H5 (A3090) (kind of pricy, only if I would knew It's really good)
> 
> *Thermaltake* - Azurues (A3080)
> Saphira (A3090) (again, really pricy where I live)
> 
> After a lot of digging (forums!), I have chosen X-748K, as it is relatively cheap, has good optical sensor, similar shape to my Sensei, and I have some experience with A4's drivers (not the best but functional.. well.. at least sometimes).
> Here where I live, there is absolutely NO chance to test your mice somewhere in some shop, so IF I would not be happy with the shape of X-748K, it would not be THAT bad for the price. I definitely don't want another "Sensei like" mouse here.
> So, I will probably buy X-748K, but I would like to hear your suggestions and ideas for alternatives (if I don't like it, I will need some).
> I'm also writing this for the second time, so maybe, I have forgotten something (that preview button should be renamed to delete) so please tell me to include any information you may need.
> Thanks everybody for reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Edit: After posting, I can now see preview of my old post again.. so I added some things.


Here's a more narrowed down list.

And here's some additional info.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , is there anyway to change the mouse wheel to a white one or are you stuck with a yellow one?
> 
> Sorry for asking here, didnt wanna make a new thread and it seemed a logical choice


lol I think everyone wants this but no they only make that color that's it.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> lol I think everyone wants this but no they only make that color that's it.


Damn







, Zowie should make optional mouse wheels









Thanks, gonna buy my FK1 next week if I have the money







and void the warranty 5 mins after I get it home







(carbon fibre wrap







)


----------



## MrScaredyShroom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Here's a more narrowed down list.
> 
> And here's some additional info.


Thank you so much! I thought there must be some great topic on Geekhack too, but I apparently diden't look well. This is exactly what I need.


----------



## Blaise170

Hi everyone, my Steelseries mouse died today so I am in need of a new one. Could anyone offer some suggestions? If the mouse is on TigerDirect, that is a bonus since I have a gift card for there.

What's your grip style? Palm or fingertip. I've been using a Steelseries Sensei RAW so it's kind of been a combination of both, though leaning towards palm.
What's your sensitivity? High.
What's your maximum budget? ~$40
Do you want additional buttons? I enjoy having the side buttons on my Steelseries, but I don't need a full number pad.
What games do you play? Mostly singleplayer games, I play just about everything but I would like it to be somewhat precise.
Do you mind about prediction? No
Other relevant information: I'd like wireless but it's not required. A braided cord and rubber/matte finish are preferred. I don't need fancy software features or macros or anything. Longevity is important, as the SSS didn't last nearly as long as I wanted it to. My biggest request is an ergonomic mouse - it doesn't have to be a true ergo mouse as long as it is more comfortable for long periods than my SSS was.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaise170*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, my Steelseries mouse died today so I am in need of a new one. Could anyone offer some suggestions? If the mouse is on TigerDirect, that is a bonus since I have a gift card for there.
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm or fingertip. I've been using a Steelseries Sensei RAW so it's kind of been a combination of both, though leaning towards palm.
> What's your sensitivity? High.
> What's your maximum budget? ~$40
> Do you want additional buttons? I enjoy having the side buttons on my Steelseries, but I don't need a full number pad.
> What games do you play? Mostly singleplayer games, I play just about everything but I would like it to be somewhat precise.
> Do you mind about prediction? No
> Other relevant information: I'd like wireless but it's not required. A braided cord and rubber/matte finish are preferred. I don't need fancy software features or macros or anything. Longevity is important, as the SSS didn't last nearly as long as I wanted it to. My biggest request is an ergonomic mouse - it doesn't have to be a true ergo mouse as long as it is more comfortable for long periods than my SSS was.


Gaming mice manufacturers have not been prioritizing precision for over a decade.

Since you play mostly single player games on high sensitivity you can pretty much use any mouse that best suits your weight, shape, grip, etc. preferences.

If you have a store like Fry's Electronics near you that has a big isle of mice on display that you can hold, then that would be your best bet. If you find a mouse there that you like then look it up on tigerdirect to see if they have it.


----------



## jtl999

1. What's your grip style?

Like Logitech G400 (whatever that is)

2. What's your sensitivity?

3000-3600dpi would work well

3. What's your maximum budget?
around $60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Back and forward side buttons, more is sometimes better









5. What games do you play?

TF2, Minecraft. Don't do much gaming anymore.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Would like it to be configurable if possible.

7. Other relevant information:

Would like on-board memory for profiles, NCIX is preferred store. Feel free to ask me more questions.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Like Logitech G400 (whatever that is)
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 3000-3600dpi would work well
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> around $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Back and forward side buttons, more is sometimes better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> TF2, Minecraft. Don't do much gaming anymore.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Would like it to be configurable if possible.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Would like on-board memory for profiles, NCIX is preferred store. Feel free to ask me more questions.


G402


----------



## jtl999

How's the latest G402 firmware. I've heard about issues in the past related to tracking on the y axis.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> How's the latest G402 firmware. I've heard about issues in the past related to tracking on the y axis.


Should be fixed with the latest firmware.


----------



## hyacinth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> G402, Zowie FK1, Roccat Kone Pure Military (or optical, or savu), Mionix Avior 7000 (massdrop)


Thanks for those suggestions, I ended up looking at the G402 and Roccat KPM as they were the only options available locally. The G402 was too big for my grip- the palmrest was interfering with my grip much like the Logitech MX510 was. The KPM is just about perfect though shapewise. Though it does look like I'll have to install the software to customise the buttons.


----------



## Fexy

Hello,
I have been using my Logitech mx 518 for almost 9 years now. Although it tis still working perfectly I decided to get a new mouse. The mx 518 was perfect for me in every aspect exept it's looks.

What's your grip style?
Palm, I think.
What's your sensitivity?
I have no idea. The sensitivity of my mx 518 is enough, I'm not even using the maximum sensitivity you can choose on the fly via the buttons above and below the mouse wheel.
What's your maximum budget?
About 70 Euros, but if necessary that budget can be streched.
Do you want additional buttons?
I only need left and right mouse button, a clickable mouswheel and two thumb buttons
What games do you play?
Right now mainly World of Tanks, but all sorts of other games as well.
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't know
Other relevant information:
I'm right handed and really like the ergonomic shape of my 518. Build quality is a very important factor for me, the mouse should last at least 4 or 5 years, the longer the better. In terms of looks I like simple mice (no fancy logos or anything like that). Unfortunately there is no shop near my place that offers a wide selection of mice to try out, so i have to order via the internet and can't try before I buy.
Thank you in advance for any helpful suggestions.


----------



## cutty1998

Looking to upgrade a mouse for my Son. He is using a logitech G-300 now,on a BenQ 120Hz monitor. He mainly plays League of Legends,but has recently got back into COD .No qualms spending $80 or so. Also he doesn't seem interested in extra programmable buttons. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


----------



## Andeus

After 3 years my Razer Deathadder: Black Edition started double-clicking on the MMB and not registering all the clicks on MB4. So maybe it's time for a change:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*What's your grip style?*
The Palm/Claw hybrid. Not fully palming the mouse but also not fully clawing it. Fingers have a more relaxed arch over the buttons and it's mostly the back part of the mouse that comes in full contact with my palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
1800 DPI, 1000hz polling. I'm not a low sens player, I'm closer to a regular/mid sens doing most of the work with wrist movement.
*What's your maximum budget?*
Around 50-55 Euros (think 60-65 $ I guess, there's more taxes around here







)
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes. More than the ones my current Deathadder has.
*What games do you play?*
Almost everything but for the purpose of this mouse I want something that could deal with FPS (CS:GO,BF4) and MMORPGs. So something with a good sensor and more extra buttons than your average FPS mouse.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I'd rather have the option to turn it off. I don't think I'd like it, but to be honest I'm not really sure I'd notice it. Unless my DA:BE has prediction I don't think I've ever owned a mouse that had it.
*Other relevant information:*

Not really sure on the cable type. I like the DA's braided one, but to be honest I don't know the *dis*advantages of braided cables, always thought they were an upgrade over regular ones.
Weight: I like Blackadder's weight, so something around that area.
I've been looking around and I guess what I'd like would be the G402 with a braided cable, G502s' sensor and, since we are wishful, G502's extra no. of buttons.
Tried a G502 in a store and while it has a great shape, I wasn't too sure about the weight. Seemed a little heavy. Not saying that is something you can't get used to, but felt a bit weird. Checked for any extra weights installed but it was empty
I guess I'd like to have a MMORPG mouse like the Naga or the G600 but the buttons on the side would probably mess with me playing other games like FPS or RTS/Moba, which is why I wanna go with the best-of-both-worlds.
The Corsair Sabre Optical looks nice too. Shape looks ok in the promo images, more than 2 extra buttons, but unfortunately there's no info on the sensor and no posts about it on the forum yet.
Come to think of it a wired, lighter G602 might have been what I'm looking for. Damn you Logitech


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fexy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> I have been using my Logitech mx 518 for almost 9 years now. Although it tis still working perfectly I decided to get a new mouse. The mx 518 was perfect for me in every aspect exept it's looks.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm, I think.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I have no idea. The sensitivity of my mx 518 is enough, I'm not even using the maximum sensitivity you can choose on the fly via the buttons above and below the mouse wheel.
> What's your maximum budget?
> About 70 Euros, but if necessary that budget can be streched.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I only need left and right mouse button, a clickable mouswheel and two thumb buttons
> What games do you play?
> Right now mainly World of Tanks, but all sorts of other games as well.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't know
> Other relevant information:
> I'm right handed and really like the ergonomic shape of my 518. Build quality is a very important factor for me, the mouse should last at least 4 or 5 years, the longer the better. In terms of looks I like simple mice (no fancy logos or anything like that). Unfortunately there is no shop near my place that offers a wide selection of mice to try out, so i have to order via the internet and can't try before I buy.
> Thank you in advance for any helpful suggestions.


I'd stick with the 518. It's not a bad looking mouse IMO, and there isn't another mouse that is better in every way.

Especially for a game like world of tanks, there's no need for anything special.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cutty1998*
> 
> Looking to upgrade a mouse for my Son. He is using a logitech G-300 now,on a BenQ 120Hz monitor. He mainly plays League of Legends,but has recently got back into COD .No qualms spending $80 or so. Also he doesn't seem interested in extra programmable buttons. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


For games like League there is no need for a gaming mouse. Any mouse that suits your size, shape, weight, grip, etc. preferences will do.

As far as COD goes, recommendations would depend on how he grips his mouse, what sensitivity he uses, and the previous things I listed.

If you have a big electronics store near you like Fry's Electronics, that has a big mouse isle where you can physically hold the mice, I would highly recommend taking him there.

Every gaming mouse has its problems at the moment, so there's no recommendation to be given off such basic info.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andeus*
> 
> After 3 years my Razer Deathadder: Black Edition started double-clicking on the MMB and not registering all the clicks on MB4. So maybe it's time for a change:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> The Palm/Claw hybrid. Not fully palming the mouse but also not fully clawing it. Fingers have a more relaxed arch over the buttons and it's mostly the back part of the mouse that comes in full contact with my palm
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 1800 DPI, 1000hz polling. I'm not a low sens player, I'm closer to a regular/mid sens doing most of the work with wrist movement.
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Around 50-55 Euros (think 60-65 $ I guess, there's more taxes around here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes. More than the ones my current Deathadder has.
> *What games do you play?*
> Almost everything but for the purpose of this mouse I want something that could deal with FPS (CS:GO,BF4) and MMORPGs. So something with a good sensor and more extra buttons than your average FPS mouse.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'd rather have the option to turn it off. I don't think I'd like it, but to be honest I'm not really sure I'd notice it. Unless my DA:BE has prediction I don't think I've ever owned a mouse that had it.
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Not really sure on the cable type. I like the DA's braided one, but to be honest I don't know the *dis*advantages of braided cables, always thought they were an upgrade over regular ones.
> Weight: I like Blackadder's weight, so something around that area.
> I've been looking around and I guess what I'd like would be the G402 with a braided cable, G502s' sensor and, since we are wishful, G502's extra no. of buttons.
> Tried a G502 in a store and while it has a great shape, I wasn't too sure about the weight. Seemed a little heavy. Not saying that is something you can't get used to, but felt a bit weird. Checked for any extra weights installed but it was empty
> I guess I'd like to have a MMORPG mouse like the Naga or the G600 but the buttons on the side would probably mess with me playing other games like FPS or RTS/Moba, which is why I wanna go with the best-of-both-worlds.
> The Corsair Sabre Optical looks nice too. Shape looks ok in the promo images, more than 2 extra buttons, but unfortunately there's no info on the sensor and no posts about it on the forum yet.
> Come to think of it a wired, lighter G602 might have been what I'm looking for. Damn you Logitech


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

The KPM has the 2nd best sensor for FPS games after the MLT04.


----------



## metal571

What are you talking about, the G400v2 better in every way from the 518. 125 Hz is pointless now.


----------



## AcEsSalvation

Hey guys, hoping you can help me. My budget mouse is starting to have issues.


Grip: No idea what this means. I play with my thumb and pinky on the sides of the mice. Middle finger on scroll wheel.
Sensitivity: I adjust everything in Windows and games as needed.
Budget: Not looking for anything fancy, just durable and quality.
Buttons: Just the LMB, RMB, and middle scroll wheel.
Games: Every genre. FPS, RPG, etc. I don't need a mouse suited specifically for any game.
Prediction: ?
Extras: Don't care whether it's wireless or wired. If it's wired, I need a longer cord.



Spoiler: Ive got a few pictures of the mouse I have now. Ive really gotten used to it and I love this shape. These pictures are terrible, I'm sorry.








Seagate GoFlex Turbo HHD for size reference. The mouse curves towards the top so the buttons 'spill' over the sides.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What are you talking about, the G400v2 better in every way from the 518. 125 Hz is pointless now.


Ah, yeah.. I forget about the 125hz on the 518.

I can't say anything about the G400 since I never used it, but 



.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AcEsSalvation*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, hoping you can help me. My budget mouse is starting to have issues.
> 
> 
> Grip: No idea what this means. I play with my thumb and pinky on the sides of the mice. Middle finger on scroll wheel.
> Sensitivity: I adjust everything in Windows and games as needed.
> Budget: Not looking for anything fancy, just durable and quality.
> Buttons: Just the LMB, RMB, and middle scroll wheel.
> Games: Every genre. FPS, RPG, etc. I don't need a mouse suited specifically for any game.
> Prediction: ?
> Extras: Don't care whether it's wireless or wired. If it's wired, I need a longer cord.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ive got a few pictures of the mouse I have now. Ive really gotten used to it and I love this shape. These pictures are terrible, I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seagate GoFlex Turbo HHD for size reference. The mouse curves towards the top so the buttons 'spill' over the sides.


I'd get the same one if I were you.


----------



## AcEsSalvation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ah, yeah.. I forget about the 125hz on the 518.
> 
> I can't say anything about the G400 since I never used it, but
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I'd get the same one if I were you.


Don't know if I can find it. I can't remember if it was in a combo of the M/KB or if it was a $10 mouse I got at some small shop...


----------



## Andeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Every gaming mouse has its problems at the moment, so there's no recommendation to be given off such basic info.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> The KPM has the 2nd best sensor for FPS games after the MLT04.


Thanks for the reply and the suggestion. Unfortunately the KPM is not really an option.
From what I've read I like it's shape, size, weight (and the naval strike colour scheme







), and even though I'd prefer for the 2 extra buttons to be at an easier to reach position than behind the mousewheel, I think the Easy Shift+ function would sort my MMORPG needs.
But there's a catch: It's way overbudget. Around here it goes for 72-80 euros (around 80-100 US $), and even on Amazon the minimum price I can find is around 68 euros incl. postage fees.

But I've seen offers on the G402 that brings it down to 49 euros (incl. postage fees) and it's tempting. Anyone knows if I might encounter issues @ 1800 DPI ? Is there any advantage of a normal cable vs a braided one?
There's also a discount on the G600, but If I got that there goes my FPS playing







G402 seems like a more balanced solution.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andeus*
> 
> Thanks for the reply and the suggestion. Unfortunately the KPM is not really an option.
> From what I've read I like it's shape, size, weight (and the naval strike colour scheme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and even though I'd prefer for the 2 extra buttons to be at an easier to reach position than behind the mousewheel, I think the Easy Shift+ function would sort my MMORPG needs.
> But there's a catch: It's way overbudget. Around here it goes for 72-80 euros (around 80-100 US $), and even on Amazon the minimum price I can find is around 68 euros incl. postage fees.
> 
> But I've seen offers on the G402 that brings it down to 49 euros (incl. postage fees) and it's tempting. Anyone knows if I might encounter issues @ 1800 DPI ? Is there any advantage of a normal cable vs a braided one?
> There's also a discount on the G600, but If I got that there goes my FPS playing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G402 seems like a more balanced solution.


Feature-wise Tyon would be a good option for you, but the price is too high.


----------



## Andeus

Indeed Tyon looks great, but even the KPM is kinda cheap compared to it.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ah, yeah.. I forget about the 125hz on the 518.
> 
> I can't say anything about the G400 since I never used it, but
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I'd get the same one if I were you.


That guy hates everything, lol. The 400 is a 518 with a better sensor and higher default polling rate.


----------



## scyhhe

What's your grip style?

-palm mosty , altough with my current budget mouse i cant use it because it is really small so i use claw. (A4 X5-70MD)

What's your sensitivity?

-I tweak ingame settings for each game , but I usually use low to mid sensitivity ( 5 in CSGO for example )

What's your maximum budget?

- around 50-60 euros ( ~80$ )

Do you want additional buttons?

-The 2 thumb buttons are enough for me and every mouse has those

What games do you play?

-CS:GO/1.6 mainly , some MMOs (which i dont need a special mouse for )

Do you mind about prediction?

-Not totally sure what it is , but as far as I've read it is not good for fps especially like CS.

Other relevant information:

AS a full ****** i actually measured my hand - ~18cm from the tip of my middle finger to the base/wrist. My middle finger alone is ~8cm. I don't like wireless mice.Weight doesn't matter that much as long as it is not too light or too heavy.Cord doesn't matter either if it is stable and flexible.It can have drivers as long as they aren't a pain in the ass.Also don't like glossy finishes ( prefer matte ones ).
Keep in my mind I have NOT used gaming mice ever in my life , this is going to be my first one. I have my mind set on FK1/EC1 or DA2013.It is going to be one of those three.I have been using simple 5-10$ mice all my life so mostly comfort matters for me.Again this is going to be mostly a mouse for FPS.I'm almost certain on Zowie just need help deciding between FK1 and EC1 - since I have no experience with ambidextrous and strictly right handed mice.Thank you for your time.

P.S I have heard there is a difference between EC1 and EC1 CL which consists of the CL being somewhat not as good ? Asking because I like the color more and would choose that one over the pure black/white one.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyhhe*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> -palm mosty , altough with my current budget mouse i cant use it because it is really small so i use claw. (A4 X5-70MD)
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> -I tweak ingame settings for each game , but I usually use low to mid sensitivity ( 5 in CSGO for example )
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> - around 50-60 euros ( ~80$ )
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> -The 2 thumb buttons are enough for me and every mouse has those
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> -CS:GO/1.6 mainly , some MMOs (which i dont need a special mouse for )
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> -Not totally sure what it is , but as far as I've read it is not good for fps especially like CS.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> AS a full ****** i actually measured my hand - ~18cm from the tip of my middle finger to the base/wrist. My middle finger alone is ~8cm. I don't like wireless mice.Weight doesn't matter that much as long as it is not too light or too heavy.Cord doesn't matter either if it is stable and flexible.It can have drivers as long as they aren't a pain in the ass.Also don't like glossy finishes ( prefer matte ones ).
> Keep in my mind I have NOT used gaming mice ever in my life , this is going to be my first one. I have my mind set on FK1/EC1 or DA2013.It is going to be one of those three.I have been using simple 5-10$ mice all my life so mostly comfort matters for me.Again this is going to be mostly a mouse for FPS.I'm almost certain on Zowie just need help deciding between FK1 and EC1 - since I have no experience with ambidextrous and strictly right handed mice.Thank you for your time.
> 
> P.S I have heard there is a difference between EC1 and EC1 CL which consists of the CL being somewhat not as good ? Asking because I like the color more and would choose that one over the pure black/white one.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

5 sens in GO is not low-mid. That's really high (at 400dpi, 6/11 windows). Unless you have acceleration turned on.


----------



## Fexy

@MaximilianKohler and @metal571
Fist of all thank you for your input! I definatilly wat to get a new mouse, so sticking with the mx 518 is not an option. How can I tell the G400 v2 apart from the regular G 400?, and since the price difference doesn't really matter should I just go for the G402? Also how does the Zowie EC evo CL compare in terms of build quality and performance, from the pictures on their site it looks pretty appealing to me?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fexy*
> 
> @MaximilianKohler and @metal571
> Fist of all thank you for your input! I definatilly wat to get a new mouse, so sticking with the mx 518 is not an option. How can I tell the G400 v2 apart from the regular G 400?, and since the price difference doesn't really matter should I just go for the G402? Also how does the Zowie EC evo CL compare in terms of build quality and performance, from the pictures on their site it looks pretty appealing to me?


If you really want to go with the EC I would wait as it is possible that a new 3310 version is coming soon. The G400v2 you can find used should have a serial number greater than LZ13333. The G402 is also very good but the shape is slightly different so I can't tell if you'll like it immediately or not, but I found it a big upgrade mainly because the right side does not have any lip anymore that forces a ring on top, pinky on bottom kind of grip.


----------



## AcEsSalvation

About my mouse request, would a better sensor/higher DPI remove one issue I'm having?

In a few of my games, my cursor moves quite far if I barely move it. But if I turn my sensitivity down, it doesn't move fast enough. Like it feels too jumpy. I either have to deal with low sensitivity or my mouse moves too far when I move the mouse a little. Almost jumping way too far.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Not sure what you mean by jumpy. But it sounds like you might have mouse acceleration on. There are games that default it to on and you have to google how to turn it off.

Make sure you also have EPP off: http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/landing/sentinel_advance/faq2.jpg

Higher DPI won't fix anything. That's just another way to raise sensitivity.

A better mouse might fix your problem if you're hitting the malfunction speed. You'd probably be happy with a naos 7000, or FK1, or maybe a kone pure military if your hands are small and not dry.


----------



## AcEsSalvation

I can probably grab a small recording of what I'm talking about. It's like fine adjustments are possible in some games. I try to move the mouse a small amount, but the cursor moves a lot. Sometimes it doesn't scroll in games, it just snaps.

I would describe it as the mouse is moving at 10FPS.

EDIT: Also, it just died.

EDIT 2: Kone Pure Military looks like the shape of the mouse I have. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## munchzilla

just thought I'd ask in this thread to see if I missed anything.









I want a mouse that does NOT have a more narrow front than back, and it can be right handed ergonomic, as long as it isn't huge.
it can't be tiny either, since I have rather large hands.
weight is probably the most important, not above 100 grams, preferrably less.
I use a fingertip grip, and it needs to be very grippy and easy to lift with fingers only. I usually lift more with thumb than I do with the right-side fingers though.

and of course, it has to have a non-accel, low-jitter sensor, and capable of at least 3 M/s max speed.








min 500Hz, anything else feels choppy for me.
side buttons and good scrollwheel are a huge plus, but not required. lighter click = preferred too. I don't mind extra buttons but I'd prefer nothing more than that of a 5-button mouse.
I do not find the G400s, DA2013 or Avior 7000 pre-latest-fw to be 'too laggy' so I guess I'm not super picky with the minor smoothing-lag people here perceive.

mouse will be used with an Artisan Hayate.

I do like the G100s for example, but it is very slippery for me, and I can make it malfunction rather easily.

I do not like the shape of the FK1, and I do not like the clicks.

KPM is too narrow in the front, and Avior 7000 is too, unfortunately. I get cramps from either rather quickly.

Zowie 3090 implementations don't seem to work too well on my Hayate, as I get ~2m max speed, which is something I hit with a large part of my swipes.

sorry for it being a bit disorganized, I just tried to cover everything as I was writing things out.

thanks!


----------



## trriL

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> just thought I'd ask in this thread to see if I missed anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want a mouse that does NOT have a more narrow front than back, and it can be right handed ergonomic, as long as it isn't huge.
> it can't be tiny either, since I have rather large hands.
> weight is probably the most important, not above 100 grams, preferrably less.
> I use a fingertip grip, and it needs to be very grippy and easy to lift with fingers only. I usually lift more with thumb than I do with the right-side fingers though.
> 
> and of course, it has to have a non-accel, low-jitter sensor, and capable of at least 3 M/s max speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> min 500Hz, anything else feels choppy for me.
> side buttons and good scrollwheel are a huge plus, but not required. lighter click = preferred too. I don't mind extra buttons but I'd prefer nothing more than that of a 5-button mouse.
> I do not find the G400s, DA2013 or Avior 7000 pre-latest-fw to be 'too laggy' so I guess I'm not super picky with the minor smoothing-lag people here perceive.
> 
> mouse will be used with an Artisan Hayate.
> 
> I do like the G100s for example, but it is very slippery for me, and I can make it malfunction rather easily.
> 
> I do not like the shape of the FK1, and I do not like the clicks.
> 
> KPM is too narrow in the front, and Avior 7000 is too, unfortunately. I get cramps from either rather quickly.
> 
> Zowie 3090 implementations don't seem to work too well on my Hayate, as I get ~2m max speed, which is something I hit with a large part of my swipes.
> 
> sorry for it being a bit disorganized, I just tried to cover everything as I was writing things out.
> 
> thanks!





Have you tried the Razer Abyssus?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Have you tried the Razer Abyssus?


I have, and I consider it too tiny, unfortunately - and the LOD was sky high, but I'm not sure if this is a firmware fix or anything like that?

I still have mine, if there's anything you think I should try with it, but I'm afraid I found it too small regardless. will report back when I find it.








plus, I think the scroll wheel wasn't very good either, as well as the lack of sidebuttons...









thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## trriL

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I have, and I consider it too tiny, unfortunately - and the LOD was sky high, but I'm not sure if this is a firmware fix or anything like that?
> 
> I still have mine, if there's anything you think I should try with it, but I'm afraid I found it too small regardless. will report back when I find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> plus, I think the scroll wheel wasn't very good either, as well as the lack of sidebuttons...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for the suggestion!





Which version of the Abyssus did you try? The older pre-2014 version should be about the same size as a g100s.
Have you thought of the Ninox Aurora? (You can get it's pcb to work with a WMO1.1 shell)
Edit: Also for some people the new G302 has very similar feel in the hand to the G100s.


----------



## munchzilla

I have the first version of the Abyssus, which I got many years ago, when it was just released. it feels a bit smaller than the G100s, and a bit differently shaped though.
still haven't found it, but will go for it a bit later in the evening


----------



## cutty1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'd stick with the 518. It's not a bad looking mouse IMO, and there isn't another mouse that is better in every way.
> 
> Especially for a game like world of tanks, there's no need for anything special.
> For games like League there is no need for a gaming mouse. Any mouse that suits your size, shape, weight, grip, etc. preferences will do.
> 
> As far as COD goes, recommendations would depend on how he grips his mouse, what sensitivity he uses, and the previous things I listed.
> 
> If you have a big electronics store near you like Fry's Electronics, that has a big mouse isle where you can physically hold the mice, I would highly recommend taking him there.
> 
> Every gaming mouse has its problems at the moment, so there's no recommendation to be given off such basic info.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> The KPM has the 2nd best sensor for FPS games after the MLT04.


Thanks for the reply. after reading some of these recent posts,maybe he doesn't need a new mouse. We only have a Best Buy nearby ,and they don't have much anymore.


----------



## DigitalOlive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Logitech G602, G502, G402
> Roccat Kone Pure Military, Kone XTD (/Optical), Tyon
> ... what I would consider to buy based on your criteria. (Not really a fan of other brands, if I don't have to.)


Without holding those so far it looks like the 602 would be my first choice. Is 2500 DPI enough for a mostly FPS gamer in your opinion?


----------



## hza

Yes, for sure. I use 1200 dpi on 1920x1200.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DigitalOlive*
> 
> Without holding those so far it looks like the 602 would be my first choice. Is 2500 DPI enough for a mostly FPS gamer in your opinion?


you will need to use a lower dpi for higher accuracy


----------



## DigitalOlive

Thanks for the tips guys, much appreciated. I just noticed the weight on it and didn't think it would be that heavy. I'm not saying I'm against it, I just need to give it a feel first. Weight wise, this 402 seems way too light and the 502 might be right for me, except a lot of the reviews say it is great for small hands which I do not have.


----------



## fx63007850

im in need of a new mouse as my rat 5 is to big so im looking for something a bit smaller but not sure what to get, any help

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dismas

I'm looking for a new mouse to use at work. I have to work on a Mac, and the magic mouse is way too slow for me.

What's your grip style?
Claw
What's your sensitivity?
1800 DPI, prefer adjustability
What's your maximum budget?
$100
Do you want additional buttons?
at least 2 side buttons for forward/backward navigation
What games do you play?
RTS, FPS, but mostly going to use this mouse for work
Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer no prediction or acceleration
Other relevant information:
I will be using this mouse on a Mac so I need to be sure drivers won't be an issue.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dismas*
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse to use at work. I have to work on a Mac, and the magic mouse is way too slow for me.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1800 DPI, prefer adjustability
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> at least 2 side buttons for forward/backward navigation
> What games do you play?
> RTS, FPS, but mostly going to use this mouse for work
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer no prediction or acceleration
> Other relevant information:
> I will be using this mouse on a Mac so I need to be sure drivers won't be an issue.


I recommend checking out a Corsair M45. I'm not sure if it's compatible with Macs.


----------



## gregtorn

1. What's your grip style? - Palm

2. What's your sensitivity? - Mid

3. What's your maximum budget? 45-50euro

4. Do you want additional buttons? yes(back, forward and maybe mouse wheel like in logitech lx8 )

5. What games do you play? RPG, sometime FPS, but mostly going to use this mouse for work

6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer no prediction or acceleration

7. Other relevant information:
1) Mouse software has to work with Windows XP 2) if wireless than with AA batteries , if non-wireless then good braided cord 3) maybe rubbered grip like on lx8 or good soft-touch plastic

p.s. my lx8 worked for 6 years and still in good shape but it`s time to buy new mouse. wanted to buy g402 but software doesn`t support XP


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregtorn*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? - Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - Mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? 45-50euro
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? yes(back, forward and maybe mouse wheel like in logitech lx8 )
> 
> 5. What games do you play? RPG, sometime FPS, but mostly going to use this mouse for work
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? Prefer no prediction or acceleration
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 1) Mouse software has to work with Windows XP 2) if wireless than with AA batteries , if non-wireless then good braided cord 3) maybe rubbered grip like on lx8 or good soft-touch plastic
> 
> p.s. my lx8 worked for 6 years and still in good shape but it`s time to buy new mouse. wanted to buy g402 but software doesn`t support XP


I don't recommend anything for XP.


----------



## fatmario

1. What's your grip style? - i want a mouse that offer Palm and finger grip

2. What's your sensitivity? - 800dpi

3. What's your maximum budget? $90

4. Do you want additional buttons? Don't really matter if there extra buttons.

5. What games do you play? FPS,MOBA,

6. Do you mind about prediction? no prediction

7. Other relevant information:

For past 8 year i had mostly logitech mouse went through two mx518. Currently using g400 which is nearly 3 year old , though my g400 has issue with usb cable my mouse would stop working and turning on and off.

I didn't know that u can buy G400 mouse usb cable on ebay i saw it today it cost like $9-$10 which i can give it shot since i know its the usb cable causing my mouse turn off and on.

mx518,g400 most comfortable mouse i ever used fits my hand perfectly with grip.


----------



## hza

Then what do you want to hear/read? Repair your G400 or try out G402? You may or may not like it. Even though they're still similar, I personally prefer shapes of G402/G502 over MX518/G400/G500. Just saying...


----------



## methebest

I think it's time I got a decent mouse. >.>
As i have been using cheap mice for a long time.

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Unsure but I think I'd prefer high.
What's your maximum budget? Don't really have one, would prefer cheap but don't mind paying for quality.
Do you want additional buttons? Not really but wouldn't mind them if they were out of the way as i have the tendency to accidentally press side buttons on mice.
What games do you play? FPS's RPG's and most kinds of strategy games, think i just covered every game ever. >.>
Do you mind about prediction? I'm going to say I don't mind it, but would be good to be able to turn it off.
Other relevant information: Would like wired, though a wireless mouse that can be wired would be fine. A matt finish would be a plus. Also i think might grip could be a bit weird as i use my index finger for both the left button and the wheel.(unless that's normal >.>)
Thanks.


----------



## LDV617

*What's your grip style?*
Palm / Claw Hybrid

squeeze thumb and pinky

pointer finger on m1, middle on mouse wheel, and ring on m2

*What's your sensitivity?*

Windows 6/11
CS:GO 2
400 dpi (must be exactly 400, would like option for 450)

*What's your maximum budget?
*
Would like to shop with bang for buck in mind, but probably $60-$80 at the highest.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons + mouse scroll would be max

*What games do you play?*
CS:GO

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Probably

*Other relevant information:*

Would much prefer optical > laser

Currently use a Steelseries Rival + Puretak Talent, but the Rival is a little too big for me. I used to use it with a different grip, but I was much more inconsistent in CS.

The Rival's full size is just slightly too long, it would probably be fine if the palm wasn't so big, but it just stretches my hand out too much.

I'm not really in a rush to purchase at the moment, but I would love to find a replica of the Rival that is _slightly_ smaller. Should I just wait for Steelseries to release it? lol The SteelSeries drivers are also the best I've ever seen on a mouse/peripheral.

EDIT: Really considering Mionix Maos, really like the shape. Reminds me of an old rosewill mouse I had that felt AMAZING but had terrible steps/laser sensor


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm / Claw Hybrid
> 
> squeeze thumb and pinky
> 
> pointer finger on m1, middle on mouse wheel, and ring on m2
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Windows 6/11
> CS:GO 2
> 400 dpi (must be exactly 400, would like option for 450)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?
> *
> Would like to shop with bang for buck in mind, but probably $60-$80 at the highest.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 side buttons + mouse scroll would be max
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Probably
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Would much prefer optical > laser
> 
> Currently use a Steelseries Rival + Puretak Talent, but the Rival is a little too big for me. I used to use it with a different grip, but I was much more inconsistent in CS.
> 
> The Rival's full size is just slightly too long, it would probably be fine if the palm wasn't so big, but it just stretches my hand out too much.
> 
> I'm not really in a rush to purchase at the moment, but I would love to find a replica of the Rival that is _slightly_ smaller. Should I just wait for Steelseries to release it? lol The SteelSeries drivers are also the best I've ever seen on a mouse/peripheral.
> 
> EDIT: Really considering Mionix Maos, really like the shape. Reminds me of an old rosewill mouse I had that felt AMAZING but had terrible steps/laser sensor


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

Kone Pure Military is the 2nd best FPS mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm / Claw Hybrid
> 
> squeeze thumb and pinky
> 
> pointer finger on m1, middle on mouse wheel, and ring on m2
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Windows 6/11
> CS:GO 2
> 400 dpi (must be exactly 400, would like option for 450)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?
> *
> Would like to shop with bang for buck in mind, but probably $60-$80 at the highest.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 2 side buttons + mouse scroll would be max
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Probably
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Would much prefer optical > laser
> 
> Currently use a Steelseries Rival + Puretak Talent, but the Rival is a little too big for me. I used to use it with a different grip, but I was much more inconsistent in CS.
> 
> The Rival's full size is just slightly too long, it would probably be fine if the palm wasn't so big, but it just stretches my hand out too much.
> 
> I'm not really in a rush to purchase at the moment, but I would love to find a replica of the Rival that is _slightly_ smaller. Should I just wait for Steelseries to release it? lol The SteelSeries drivers are also the best I've ever seen on a mouse/peripheral.
> 
> EDIT: Really considering Mionix Maos, really like the shape. Reminds me of an old rosewill mouse I had that felt AMAZING but had terrible steps/laser sensor


NAOS 7000 is good. But the shape is such that it might be tiring if you lift a lot. Maybe the Castor could suit you whenever it releases.


----------



## LDV617

Kone looks interesting, think my grip will fit it better than the Rival?


----------



## brejq

I wish zowie will make:
Zowie EVO EC1 / EC2 new version containing PMW3366 sensor...
It will be perfect mice for FPS games.


----------



## DomoTheRussian

*What's your grip style?* - Fingertip

*What's your sensitivity?* - 2.4 with 400 DPI/500 HZ in CS:GO

*What's your maximum budget?* - Money isn't an issue, but nothing too crazy...

*Do you want additional buttons?* Only 2 buttons on sides

*What games do you play?* - FPS games, CS GO most of the time. Ocasionally Battlefield, Call Of Duty.

*Do you mind about prediction?* Like angel snapping and acceleration? No thank you...

*Other relevant information:* Wired mouse for long time use. Being able to take it with me on LAN tourneys and such. Hand size... well I can't say for sure but I guess it's a medium size hand, for instance with SS rival which is a long mouse I'm hitting the back of it slightly when I'm using fingertip style. Using SS Rival. I'm having my eyes curently at Zowie FK1 and EC2 EVO CL but can't quite chose betwen those 2 (Even that FK1 having a new Avago 3310 sensor)


----------



## Archea47

*New request*

*What's your grip style?*

Finger-tip with stationary palm preferred

I've used a deathadder for the past two but before that used laptop mice for many years. My girl's box uses a Razer Abyssus and that mouse works far better for me than the deathadder. The deathadder makes my hand fall to the right and gives me cramps trying to hold onto it like a finger-gripped mouse. I'm looking for options similar to the Abyssus but I don't want their Synapse software and it's a tiny bit narrow (length and height are perfect)

*What's your sensitivity?*

1800?

As mentioned I use a stationary palm when gaming and like to move my mouse from one corner of the screen to another without lifting my hand. Monitor is a single 1440p

*What's your maximum budget?*

$90

*Do you want additional buttons?*

One or two extra buttons would be nice but not essential

*What games do you play?*

Various but Battlefield 4 competitively

*Do you mind about prediction?*

I want the mouse to do exactly what I tell it

*Other relevant information:*

Must not be wireless

If has extra buttons: preferably can macro (using vendor's hardware or software) without Razer Synapse or other chatty and/or large-footprint software. Macro & >3 buttons isn't a hard requirement

Preferably Amazon Prime eligible

Again, for stationary palm and finger tip grip, so no longer than ~4.5"

*Thanks for the help!*


----------



## Freezesucker

Think I posted in the wrong thread before.

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm but there isn't enough mouse so it looks like a claw in terms of contact points
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
3200DPI currently, so medium?
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$100
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Two thumb buttons are a must
*5. What games do you play?*
BF4, CS:GO, Dota, Civ 5
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction, or at least able to turn it off.
*7. Other relevant information:*
I've got a DA 2013 that has been mostly good (I like the cursor response). My issues with it have been an easy to press right click, and it isn't quite big enough towards the palm, although the overall shape is good. Looking for a new mouse because the DA has developed a double click issue on the left click .

Thanks.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DomoTheRussian*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* - Fingertip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* - 2.4 with 400 DPI/500 HZ in CS:GO
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* - Money isn't an issue, but nothing too crazy...
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Only 2 buttons on sides
> 
> *What games do you play?* - FPS games, CS GO most of the time. Ocasionally Battlefield, Call Of Duty.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Like angel snapping and acceleration? No thank you...
> 
> *Other relevant information:* Wired mouse for long time use. Being able to take it with me on LAN tourneys and such. Hand size... well I can't say for sure but I guess it's a medium size hand, for instance with SS rival which is a long mouse I'm hitting the back of it slightly when I'm using fingertip style. Using SS Rival. I'm having my eyes curently at Zowie FK1 and EC2 EVO CL but can't quite chose betwen those 2 (Even that FK1 having a new Avago 3310 sensor)


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freezesucker*
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 3200DPI currently, *so medium*?


Not unless you've put the windows slider to 3/11 and use 0.1 sensitivity in game...

input your values here: http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/ - tell us what the outcome is


----------



## Freezesucker

Thanks for that tool. I used the DPI analyser and it gave me a reading of 3200 DPI. I entered my details in for CS:GO and it said that a movement of 2.6cm would do a 360° revolution which when I measured it seemed about right. Am I still doing something wrong?


----------



## hza

That sensitivity is too high to play consitently according to some people. I think "whatever works".


----------



## ale29

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ale29*
> 
> Hello guys.
> 
> 1) What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 2) What's your sensitivity? Not sure, Low-ish
> 3) What's your maximum budget? 70€
> 4) Do you want additional buttons? NO. Well, not a deal breaker if they're there, but I won't be using them anyway
> 5) What games do you play? DOTA 2; CS:GO
> 6) Do you mind about prediction? Please no prediction
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Lightweight mouse preferred.
> I'm lefty, so Ambidextrous it is as for shape.
> I'm coming from a Razor pro 1.6 (Diamondback in a different color). I've used that mouse for maybe 10 years, got used to its shape.
> Using a QCK cloth pad.


Hey, I'm quoting myself after a bit of research.
FK1, which was the model suggested, looks quite good but the price is steep and i don't need any additional button.
After realizing that I'm actually fine using 1600 DPI currently, I was thinking about a Razer Abyssus 2014, do the "install synapse - update firmware and set 500hz - delete synpase" trick and stick with 1800DPI. It seems to have JUST what I need, nothing else.
Any negative feedback on this?


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ale29*
> 
> Hey, I'm quoting myself after a bit of research.
> FK1, which was the model suggested, looks quite good but the price is steep and i don't need any additional button.
> After realizing that I'm actually fine using 1600 DPI currently, I was thinking about a Razer Abyssus 2014, do the "install synapse - update firmware and set 500hz - delete synpase" trick and stick with 1800DPI. It seems to have JUST what I need, nothing else.
> Any negative feedback on this?


I think the 2014 ships with 500hz by default. So, if you snag a model with the updated firmware, Synapse won't be necessary at any point.

The new Abyssus is wider than the Diamondback and less \_/ shaped, if at all. Never held it, just judging by pictures and user comments. Perhaps you'd find the old Abby more to your liking.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freezesucker*
> 
> Thanks for that tool. I used the DPI analyser and it gave me a reading of 3200 DPI. I entered my details in for CS:GO and it said that a movement of 2.6cm would do a 360° revolution which when I measured it seemed about right. Am I still doing something wrong?


Haha. Pretty much what I expected.

If you lowered your sensitivity by a factor of 10 it would still be considered high.

With that high sensitivity you don't need a gaming mouse. Gaming mice are valued for their higher malfunction speed than regular mice. The only people who need high malfunction speeds are people with medium to low sensitivity who move their mice really fast. So around 30-70cm/360.

I will say that you should lower your sensitivity especially in FPS games if you want to get better. Even something as high as 24cm/360 is fairly unheard of on the professional FPS level, and you're almost 10 times higher than that.

High DPI is a marketing gimmick. The vast majority of FPS professionals use 400dpi. Even in 2D games like Dota that don't have sensitivity adjustments, anything over 1200dpi or so will make you start losing precision/control in favor of speed that is mostly unnecessary.

I think you'd be happy with which ever one of these mice fit your hand size and grip best: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.msg1421432

Another thing I recommend is if you have a large electronics store like Fry's Electronics that has a large isle with mice out that you can hold, go there and pick whichever mouse you like best or use that as a reference to look at the mice listed in the geekhack link to figure out which size and shape you'd want.

Size comparisons: http://i.imgur.com/mn78Y.jpg


----------



## Freezesucker

I don't see how high dpi is a gimmick for those of us that don't like to throw our arms around the table. I do fine on public gaming servers and am not aiming to be a even a semi pro. I didn't ask for a gaming mouse either. I asked for suggestions on something similar size to my current mouse, a DA, with a bit more height in the palm and a similar cursor response with 2 side buttons. And I'd like it to have good buttons and not feel like junk in my hand.

Good chart with the dimensions though, perhaps it should be edited into the first post.

I had a sidewinder x5 before this which was a good size and had good button positioning but the behaviour of the DA has felt much better.


----------



## Clyq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freezesucker*
> 
> I don't see how high dpi is a gimmick for those of us that don't like to throw our arms around the table. I do fine on public gaming servers and am not aiming to be a even a semi pro. I didn't ask for a gaming mouse either. I asked for suggestions on something similar size to my current mouse, a DA, with a bit more height in the palm and a similar cursor response with 2 side buttons. And I'd like it to have good buttons and not feel like junk in my hand.
> 
> Good chart with the dimensions though, perhaps it should be edited into the first post.
> 
> I had a sidewinder x5 before this which was a good size and had good button positioning but the behaviour of the DA has felt much better.


It's a gimmick and may have been unintentional, however, companies managed to convince people that a higher dpi mouse equates to a better mouse. When people start to believe it, it becomes the center of marketing and the advancements that take place becomes in terms of CPI instead of more important things such as malfunction speed. I think it's important to be aware of this so that companies shift their focus and produce better mice in every aspect, not just CPI.

As maximilionkohler said, according to your needs you can get any mouse, not just a gaming mouse. If you insist on a gaming mouse, the SS Rival or Zowie EC1 come to my mind. The Mionix 8200 line looks comfy for larger hands.


----------



## Blze001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freezesucker*
> 
> I don't see how high dpi is a gimmick for those of us that don't like to throw our arms around the table. I do fine on public gaming servers and am not aiming to be a even a semi pro. I didn't ask for a gaming mouse either. I asked for suggestions on something similar size to my current mouse, a DA, with a bit more height in the palm and a similar cursor response with 2 side buttons. And I'd like it to have good buttons and not feel like junk in my hand.
> 
> Good chart with the dimensions though, perhaps it should be edited into the first post.
> 
> I had a sidewinder x5 before this which was a good size and had good button positioning but the behaviour of the DA has felt much better.


I have large-ish hands and just picked up a SteelSeries Rival, it feels pretty good and has decent button feel. I've only had it for a few days, so I can't speak to durability or long-term stuff, but it seems pretty nice for the $45 I spent on it (Newegg sale, awwwyeah).


----------



## helius

Just ordered Zowie FK2. I need a new mousepad. Currently I play on a few years old SteelSeries QcK Heavy but it's really dirty. Can you suggest me another good cloth mousepad or should I get the same? I play CS:GO, win 6/11, 400dpi, 1000hz, ingame sens 2.5.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius*
> 
> Just ordered Zowie FK2. I need a new mousepad. Currently I play on a few years old SteelSeries QcK Heavy but it's really dirty. Can you suggest me another good cloth mousepad or should I get the same? I play CS:GO, win 6/11, 400dpi, 1000hz, ingame sens 2.5.


If there's a store near you that sells supermats I'd get one of those. 1/2 the price of a heavy, just as good if not better (surface friction more consistent & better balance).


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If there's a store near you that sells supermats I'd get one of those. 1/2 the price of a heavy, just as good if not better (surface friction more consistent & better balance).


I'm really tempted to get a Supermat. I've been on a regular QcK for a while, but it's been miserable having to deal with 56cm/360 on such a small surface. Would you say it has less or more friction than the QcK?


----------



## Archea47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archea47*
> 
> *New request*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Finger-tip with stationary palm preferred
> 
> I've used a deathadder for the past two but before that used laptop mice for many years. My girl's box uses a Razer Abyssus and that mouse works far better for me than the deathadder. The deathadder makes my hand fall to the right and gives me cramps trying to hold onto it like a finger-gripped mouse. I'm looking for options similar to the Abyssus but I don't want their Synapse software and it's a tiny bit narrow (length and height are perfect)
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1800?
> 
> As mentioned I use a stationary palm when gaming and like to move my mouse from one corner of the screen to another without lifting my hand. Monitor is a single 1440p
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $90
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> One or two extra buttons would be nice but not essential
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Various but Battlefield 4 competitively
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I want the mouse to do exactly what I tell it
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Must not be wireless
> 
> If has extra buttons: preferably can macro (using vendor's hardware or software) without Razer Synapse or other chatty and/or large-footprint software. Macro & >3 buttons isn't a hard requirement
> 
> Preferably Amazon Prime eligible
> 
> Again, for stationary palm and finger tip grip, so no longer than ~4.5"
> 
> 
> *Thanks for the help!*


I went to the store after work yesterday and picked up a Corsair Vengeance M65 at the suggestion of a couple guys on the floor

Very disappointed - it's going back today. The 'prediction' is unbearable and it's simply too long for my hand (7.5") with the way I like to hold a mouse

I may just have to get another Abyssus but I'd rather try something other than Razer


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archea47*
> 
> I went to the store after work yesterday and picked up a Corsair Vengeance M65 at the suggestion of a couple guys on the floor
> 
> Very disappointed - it's going back today. The 'prediction' is unbearable and it's simply too long for my hand (7.5") with the way I like to hold a mouse
> 
> I may just have to get another Abyssus but I'd rather try something other than Razer


You might want to try Logitech G100s, G302, or Zowie MiCO. There aren't very many small mice made nowadays that are good but those are the ones currently readily available that I'd recommend. The G100s is being discontinued so you might be able to find a new one for around or under the $20 USD mark.


----------



## Archea47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> You might want to try Logitech G100s, G302, or Zowie MiCO. There aren't very many small mice made nowadays that are good but those are the ones currently readily available that I'd recommend. The G100s is being discontinued so you might be able to find a new one for around or under the $20 USD mark.


Thanks so much for the recommendations, +rep.

I decided to try the G100s and have one on the way from Amazon. The dimensions are very similar to the Cisco/Logitec mouse I use at work and I read that I can re-program the DPI switch as a macro button so it should work out well


----------



## rv8000

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm (as best I can, I have large hands)
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
~1100
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$80
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Two thumb buttons only.
*5. What games do you play?*
All genres
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction, or at least able to turn it off.
*7. Other relevant information:*
I currently have a rival, while I like the size and shape the mouse is too light and the switches/wheel feel kind of cheapy overall. I picked up a G502 on sale, and while the weight was great (and the adjustability) there were too many buttons, the shape is on the uncomfortable side, it is too small, and unfortunately had defects in the sheathing. I want a large and heavy mouse (the option to add/subtract weights is a big plus). My other big desire would be solid construction overall with a nice scroll wheel (maybe hyperscroll ability?), something that just comes off as heavy duty. It doesn't need to be flashy. Woven cord preferred as well.


----------



## pran

While they don't have any weights, I suggest taking a look at the Avior/Naos 7000.


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> While they don't have any weights, I suggest taking a look at the Avior/Naos 7000.


If the Steelseries specs for the rival is not including the cord in the net weight than the Naos/Avior are the same weight, something a bit heavier is definitely what I'm looking for.


----------



## TONSCHUH

I replaced yesterday my Roccat Siru (very good pad, but it starts after some time to roll-up and doesn't stay flat anymore) with a Roccat Alumic which seems to be worth the money.

The Wrist-Rest-Pillow is not really soft, so I'm not sure yet if I will keep using it.

I use a Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1 Mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I'm really tempted to get a Supermat. I've been on a regular QcK for a while, but it's been miserable having to deal with 56cm/360 on such a small surface. Would you say it has less or more friction than the QcK?


Hard to say.

When I first received my qck it had perfect friction for a week or so, then it got really slippery, and from what I read it gets progressively more friction after that point.

Whereas my supermat has had the same amount of friction since I bought it 5 years ago.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Hard to say.
> 
> When I first received my qck it had perfect friction for a week or so, then it got really slippery, and from what I read it gets progressively more friction after that point.
> 
> Whereas my supermat has had the same amount of friction since I bought it 5 years ago.


I've heard of people talking about supermats before, are they yoga mats? I'm confused.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I've heard of people talking about supermats before, are they yoga mats? I'm confused.


It's a generic, large mousepad.

http://www.amazon.com/HandStands-Super-Mouse-Pad-Blue/dp/B0009JCUX2

Size: 16.5 x 13.25 x .1 inches

1/2 to 1/4th the price of most "gaming" mousepads, and better than most of them. Logos f**k with tracking.


----------



## Maximillion

For the price I might pick one up. What's with the conflicting size though? It shows both " 9"*7" and "16.5 x 13.25". Just wanna make sure I'd be getting the right one if there's different versions...


----------



## Cefiro

1. *What's your grip style?*
Fingertip
2. *What's your sensitivity?*
400-800 , 1600 at most
3. *What's your maximum budget?*
Flexible
4. *Do you want additional buttons?*
Not a priority, don't need to do macros aswell
5. *What games do you play?*
All genres
6. *Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction (see below)
7. *Other relevant information:*
Kinda small proportionate hands/fingers (17cm).
No laser for me, no predictions. The more raw behavior, the best for me.

I'm already leaning towards some mouse I'm gonna list below. Would be be well if u can advice me about flaws between them in sensor implementation, clickers.

- more small ones: Roccat Lua or SS Kinzu v3 (they share the same sensor a3050)

- Roccat Savu , Kone pure military or SS Kana v2 (kana more of a filler just for the shape, dislike the right sidebutton for my grip)

Thanks you

Edit: Have narrowed down the mouse list, made the post more clear.


----------



## Klinkey

What's your grip style? - something between claw and palm
What's your sensitivity? - 1200-1800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? no limit
Do you want additional buttons? dont mind, would be nice
What games do you play? anything really
Do you mind about prediction? if prediction has an effect on muscle memory, then i probably dont want it

other relevent info, in australia

edit:no razer, pref logitech
edit2: ive heard the g9x is good?
edit3: i have a steelseries dex


----------



## butnero

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? As for cod4 sens 1, 7700dpi (1950 on desktop/LoL)

3. What's your maximum budget? Any

4. Do you want additional buttons? Not particularly

5. What games do you play? all

6. Do you mind about prediction? yes

7. Hard or cloth? Not sure I believe hard I prefer best

8. Rough or smooth? Not sure

9. Which size approximately? any

10. What's your maximum budget? any

11. Other relevant information:

I'm not sure is the right topic about the mousepad...

I had a SteelSeries Sensei fnatic edition for 2, 3 years he served me well and started to double clicking I fixed it by pushing the left button down and holding it but not before I bought a DA Chroma, which when I tried felt ALOT more accurate to me, but that was it. the sensor was alot better than my sensei so I sticked with the DA and gave the sensei to my dad but the DeathAdder just didnt felt right the Sensei was alot more comfortable, the DA was too tall I really couldnt say what was annoying me also I feel like It's too tall makes my hand hurts , but my performance was alot better with DA sensor.

Also I missed the dpi change button from my sensei, cause I'm a high sens player so when I go to desktop with 7700 dpi isnt nice right? but I made so that my scroll click would change dpy stages between 1950~7700dpi.

I need a comfortable mice which supports high sensitivity without damaging my accuraccy, interpolating or anything that would decrease my performance.

I was planning to get the SteelSeries Rival or buying a new Sensei but he has that DoubleCPI thing I'm not sure how it works and the rival only supports 5600 CPI I Belive I would like some suggestion.

About mousepad I have a razer goliathus that I bought with my sensei but It's just too damaged. I don't know much about mousepads so I figured I could use some help I believe hard would fit me better but never tried one before so...

Anyway Thanks!

edit: I believe I would prefer a smooth mousepad I like to feel pure control of my movement and precision I'm not sure what type my actual mousepad is and I dont have a cellphone right now otherwise I would send pic


----------



## Clyq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klinkey*
> 
> What's your grip style? - something between claw and palm
> What's your sensitivity? - 1200-1800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? no limit
> Do you want additional buttons? dont mind, would be nice
> What games do you play? anything really
> Do you mind about prediction? if prediction has an effect on muscle memory, then i probably dont want it
> 
> other relevent info, in australia
> 
> edit:no razer, pref logitech
> edit2: ive heard the g9x is good?
> edit3: i have a steelseries dex


Which games do you play? How big is your hand or which mice have you found sort of comfy - small - large?
The g9x is discontinued and the ones that are available are overpriced because of that reason. Also, people love it for its shape and comfort, not really for it's sensor/tracking.


----------



## optimisTGO

What's your grip style? Somewhere between claw and palm. Picture: http://puu.sh/dCxsq/2368b5b6c3.jpg
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI, 2.1 in game in CSGO
What's your maximum budget? No limit
Do you want additional buttons? Not necessarily but it wouldn't hurt
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer to avoid.
Other relevant information: I have a FK1 currently I've been using since around their release and I just wanna try something different. Maybe a mouse with the front end a tiny bit shorter, my fingers don't seem quite long enough for the FK1. Also, the whole supposed click latency thing bothers me even though I don't think it's been proven with the FK1 yet.

I've been considering the G100s, Krait, and Abyssus.


----------



## Clyq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *optimisTGO*
> 
> What's your grip style? Somewhere between claw and palm. Picture: http://puu.sh/dCxsq/2368b5b6c3.jpg
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI, 2.1 in game in CSGO
> What's your maximum budget? No limit
> Do you want additional buttons? Not necessarily but it wouldn't hurt
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer to avoid.
> Other relevant information: I have a FK1 currently I've been using since around their release and I just wanna try something different. Maybe a mouse with the front end a tiny bit shorter, my fingers don't seem quite long enough for the FK1. Also, the whole supposed click latency thing bothers me even though I don't think it's been proven with the FK1 yet.
> 
> I've been considering the G100s, Krait, and Abyssus.


I just received the G402 and you can tell there's a click latency on the FK1, however, it looks like it has more to do with the travel distance of the shell + switch. I really love the feel of the AM010 in the g402. Very good response, but again, it's just so big. I never claw my mice but tried it with the g402 and it really made me consider it. It was pretty easy to grip and control the mouse but I usually palm and that would be a big change. I really like where logitech is heading with the development of their mice, I just wish they considered making smaller mice.
I have the G100 and it's has two things wrong with it IMO. Sensor position and low malfunction speed. I can make it malfunction quite easily during regular play. The sensor position isn't bad, but for claw and fingertip I think it would be a hard adjustment.
The krait, on the other hand, looks pretty good. Same sensor as the deathadder in a much smaller shell.
You might just want to get an FK2 as it's noticeably smaller than the FK1 and get a nice d2f-01 omron switch from japan. You could even raise it a bit to get the physical latency down. A bit of work but pretty rewarding.


----------



## OkanG

What's your grip style?
Sort of a hybrid thingy? I have HUGE hands, so I would like palm grip, but I don't think there's any mouse on the market that allows my bear hands

What's your sensitivity?
800dpi

What's your maximum budget?
N/A

Do you want additional buttons?
Minimum one left side button

What games do you play?
CS:GO, LoL, WoT, BF4, pretty much anything honestly

Do you mind about prediction?
Don't know what it is, but I don't think so

Other relevant information:
White LED would be nice. The quality of the sensor is important. Has to fit huge hands
I use the Deathadder 2013. Could be a little heavier than that. Has to be good with soft cloth mouse pads.

EDIT: I've been looking at something along the lines of Steelseries Rival or the FK1. I'm open to any suggestions


----------



## hza

Logitech G502 should be heavy enough for you. Or maybe even G602? It's even heavier (batteries), but it's wireless.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Logitech G502 should be heavy enough for you. Or maybe even G602? It's even heavier (batteries), but it's wireless.


I've looked at the G502 as well actually. Would it be easy to mod the leds white?


----------



## hza

Don't know, sry. I don't mod anything and besides, I like blue


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Don't know, sry. I don't mod anything and besides, I like blue


Everything else is white in my build, and I'm pretty OCD when it comes to LEDs


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Everything else is white in my build, and I'm pretty OCD when it comes to LEDs


I'm the same way. I only like white LEDs on mice. I have really long fingers, so I had trouble with a lot of mice until I tried the Steelseries Rival, which you mentioned in one of your posts. Perfect shape for me. Plus, you can set the LED to white to match your build.

Here's a picture of my Rival:



It has a slightly bluish tint in real life, but even moreso in that image because of the camera I used.

Close-up of the Rival showing a more accurate representation of how the LED looks in person:



Highly recommend this mouse.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I'm the same way. I only like white LEDs on mice. I have really long fingers, so I had trouble with a lot of mice until I tried the Steelseries Rival, which you mentioned in one of your posts. Perfect shape for me. Plus, you can set the LED to white to match your build.
> 
> Here's a picture of my Rival:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a slightly bluish tint in real life, but even moreso in that image because of the camera I used.
> 
> Close-up of the Rival showing a more accurate representation of how the LED looks in person:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highly recommend this mouse.


Does it have a bluish tint on the white setting? Or is that just what you prefer?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Does it have a bluish tint on the white setting? Or is that just what you prefer?


It does. Those images are of the white setting. Ever so slightly bluish, but for the most part it's white. The second image is almost identical to how the white looks in person. I would prefer a completely white LED, but it's close enough for me.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Yes. Those images are of the white setting. Ever so slightly bluish, but for the most part it's white. The second image is almost identical to how the white looks in person. I would prefer a completely white LED, but it's close enough for me.


That could bug me out, but I'll consider getting the Rival. Thanks


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> That could bug me out, but I'll consider getting the Rival. Thanks


No problem. I wish you luck. If you find a great mouse with a truly white LED, let me know.


----------



## butnero

1. What's your grip style? Claw

2. What's your sensitivity? As for cod4 sens 1, 7700dpi (1950 on desktop/LoL)

3. What's your maximum budget? Any

4. Do you want additional buttons? Not particularly

5. What games do you play? all

6. Do you mind about prediction? yes

7. Hard or cloth? Not sure I believe hard I prefer best

8. Rough or smooth? Not sure

9. Which size approximately? any

10. What's your maximum budget? any

11. Other relevant information:

I'm not sure is the right topic about the mousepad...

I had a SteelSeries Sensei fnatic edition for 2, 3 years he served me well and started to double clicking I fixed it by pushing the left button down and holding it but not before I bought a DA Chroma, which when I tried felt ALOT more accurate to me, but that was it. the sensor was alot better than my sensei so I sticked with the DA and gave the sensei to my dad but the DeathAdder just didnt felt right the Sensei was alot more comfortable, the DA was too tall I really couldnt say what was annoying me also I feel like It's too tall makes my hand hurts , but my performance was alot better with DA sensor.

Also I missed the dpi change button from my sensei, cause I'm a high sens player so when I go to desktop with 7700 dpi isnt nice right? but I made so that my scroll click would change dpy stages between 1950~7700dpi.

I need a comfortable mice which supports high sensitivity without damaging my accuraccy, interpolating or anything that would decrease my performance.

I was planning to get the SteelSeries Rival or buying a new Sensei but he has that DoubleCPI thing I'm not sure how it works and the rival only supports 5600 CPI I Belive I would like some suggestion.

About mousepad I have a razer goliathus that I bought with my sensei but It's just too damaged. I don't know much about mousepads so I figured I could use some help I believe hard would fit me better but never tried one before so...

Anyway Thanks!

edit: I believe I would prefer a smooth mousepad I like to feel pure control of my movement and precision I'm not sure what type my actual mousepad is and I dont have a cellphone right now otherwise I would send pic

Sorry for repost, but I believed I was ignored lol


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *butnero*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? As for cod4 sens 1, 7700dpi (1950 on desktop/LoL)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Any
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Not particularly
> 
> 5. What games do you play? all
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? yes
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth? Not sure I believe hard I prefer best
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth? Not sure
> 
> 9. Which size approximately? any
> 
> 10. What's your maximum budget? any
> 
> 11. Other relevant information:
> 
> I'm not sure is the right topic about the mousepad...
> 
> I had a SteelSeries Sensei fnatic edition for 2, 3 years he served me well and started to double clicking I fixed it by pushing the left button down and holding it but not before I bought a DA Chroma, which when I tried felt ALOT more accurate to me, but that was it. the sensor was alot better than my sensei so I sticked with the DA and gave the sensei to my dad but the DeathAdder just didnt felt right the Sensei was alot more comfortable, the DA was too tall I really couldnt say what was annoying me also I feel like It's too tall makes my hand hurts , but my performance was alot better with DA sensor.
> 
> Also I missed the dpi change button from my sensei, cause I'm a high sens player so when I go to desktop with 7700 dpi isnt nice right? but I made so that my scroll click would change dpy stages between 1950~7700dpi.
> 
> I need a comfortable mice which supports high sensitivity without damaging my accuraccy, interpolating or anything that would decrease my performance.
> 
> I was planning to get the SteelSeries Rival or buying a new Sensei but he has that DoubleCPI thing I'm not sure how it works and the rival only supports 5600 CPI I Belive I would like some suggestion.
> 
> About mousepad I have a razer goliathus that I bought with my sensei but It's just too damaged. I don't know much about mousepads so I figured I could use some help I believe hard would fit me better but never tried one before so...
> 
> Anyway Thanks!
> 
> edit: I believe I would prefer a smooth mousepad I like to feel pure control of my movement and precision I'm not sure what type my actual mousepad is and I dont have a cellphone right now otherwise I would send pic
> 
> Sorry for repost, but I believed I was ignored lol


The only good mouse for your ridiculous high DPI I can think of is Logitech G502. But it's very heavy, lots of (imo) unnecessary buttons and the worst scroll wheel possibly imagine.


----------



## butnero

But doens't come with weight balancing? I'm used to medium mice soemthing like 105g


----------



## Archea47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archea47*
> 
> Thanks so much for the recommendations, +rep.
> 
> I decided to try the G100s and have one on the way from Amazon. The dimensions are very similar to the Cisco/Logitec mouse I use at work and I read that I can re-program the DPI switch as a macro button so it should work out well


So I've been using the G100s ...

And Lovin' it!

It's exactly what I was looking for. It fits my hand like her Abyssus but clicks like my DA. The LMB does have a bit of a squeak but this is 3000RPM fan zone so no worries


----------



## twerk

Quick one. Are there any white mice with a better sensor than the Zowie AM-FG?


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Quick one. Are there any white mice with a better sensor than the Zowie AM-FG?


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Quick one. Are there any white mice with a better sensor than the Zowie AM-FG?


What do you mean as better? Some people think the MLT04 is the best sensor. For new mice the SS rival should have a white edition out now and is sporting the 3310, which a lot of people regard as one of the best sensors out.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Quick one. Are there any white mice with a better sensor than the Zowie AM-FG?


Yes, the FK1 Zowie AM-FG franken mouse...


----------



## Prexox

1. What's your grip style? Fingertip and Palm Combination

What's your sensitivity?Around 2000DPI

What's your maximum budget? Dont have a max budget but looking for a good price/performance ratio

Do you want additional buttons? 1-2 would be ok but im not looking for something like a MMO Mouse

What games do you play?Almost everything but most of the times FPS

Do you mind about prediction?Yes

Other relevant information:

The mouse shouldnt be too big more like medium to small and the scroll wheel shouldnt be loud.
I tried the Razer Deathadder but i had the problem that the scroll wheel was good when i scrolled down but it was very loud and felt loose when scrolling up.
Im looking for a good build Quality too.

Thanks
Prexox


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> What do you mean as better? Some people think the MLT04 is the best sensor. For new mice the SS rival should have a white edition out now and is sporting the 3310, which a lot of people regard as one of the best sensors out.


No prediction, highest tracking rate etc.

Forgot to mention it would also need to work on a desk surface, as I will occasionally be using it without a pad.

I didn't know there was a white version of the Rival out! Although I am not quit comfortable buying a SS mouse, their recent track history regarding build quality has been shoddy to say the least. If I buy a Zowie I know it will last.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prexox*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? Fingertip and Palm Combination
> 
> What's your sensitivity?Around 2000DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget? Dont have a max budget but looking for a good price/performance ratio
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? 1-2 would be ok but im not looking for something like a MMO Mouse
> 
> What games do you play?Almost everything but most of the times FPS
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?Yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> The mouse shouldnt be too big more like medium to small and the scroll wheel shouldnt be loud.
> I tried the Razer Deathadder but i had the problem that the scroll wheel was good when i scrolled down but it was very loud and felt loose when scrolling up.
> Im looking for a good build Quality too.
> 
> Thanks
> Prexox


Logitech G302, it's a bit pricey at the moment in my opinion since it just came out faily recently. If you're fine sacrificing side buttons you could pick up a logitech G100s for around $20 usd.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> No prediction, highest tracking rate etc.
> 
> Forgot to mention it would also need to work on a desk surface, as I will occasionally be using it without a pad.
> 
> I didn't know there was a white version of the Rival out! Although I am not quit comfortable buying a SS mouse, their recent track history regarding build quality has been shoddy to say the least. If I buy a Zowie I know it will last.


The SS rival has no prediction, higher max tracking speed, and about 9ms less click lag then the Zowie AM. Probably going to upset some people saying this but the SS rival is a much better mouse than the AMs/ECs. The AMs and ECs interpolate/skip counts to get lower DPI steps, the Rival doesn't skip counts.

I haven't heard of any Rivals breaking so far.

If you wanted to do a bit of modding it would be cool to take a Roccat Kone Pure Military, swap it's shell out for a white Roccat Kone Pure Color. I think the shells should match up but I might be really wrong.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> If you're fine sacrificing side buttons you could pick up a logitech G100s for around $20 usd.


Just FYI to those interested, Newegg has them for $12.99 shipped but they're refurbished so the warranty is almost non existent. Amazing mouse for that price.


----------



## Archea47

I'm still loving the G100s so far except for the scroll wheel


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archea47*
> 
> I'm still loving the G100s so far except for the scroll wheel


Is their anyway to replace the buggered Scroll Wheel of the G100S with another model?

I figured maybe substitute a G400 scroller or maybe a Razer model one?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> No prediction, highest tracking rate etc.


Highest tracking rate isn't a thing.

Frames per second is probably the closest thing, but that's usually not an advertised spec for some reason...

Malfunction speed is related but only important to medium/low sens users. And after meeting your personal requirements based on your sensitivity, going higher won't give any additional benefit. Most casual gamers use extremely high sensitivity and thus malfunction speed (and even gaming mice in general) is not an important spec for them.

If what you meant was accuracy, fidelity, snappiness, crispness, responsiveness, etc., then the MLT04 mice are what you're looking for. However, they have their negatives too.


----------



## twerk

Does the 3310 sensor work without a mouse pad (i.e. on a wood desk)? I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are much more picky than the 3090.


----------



## Alex9106

Hey there, so after my Deathadder 3.5g recently broke im looking for a new mouse. No Razer please!

Grip style - Claw/Palm hybrid

Sensitivity - 400 DPI, 6/11 Windows, 2.2 Sensitivity in CS:GO

Maximum Budget - £60

Additional buttons? - Yes, 2 side buttons if possible

What games do you play? - FPS, Competitive CS:GO mainly

Do you mind about prediction? - Yes, id like none of that.

Additional information - Im in the UK, Id like the mouse to be roughly the size of a Deathadder and a really good sensor would be a must!

Thanks!


----------



## scyhhe

maybe a SS Rival would fit you ? I have one and it is similar to the deathadder but it is a tad bit longer.It is ~60 euros so it should fit in your budget. Check it out if you want







Or maybe a Mionix Naos/Avior 7000


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Does the 3310 sensor work without a mouse pad (i.e. on a wood desk)? I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are much more picky than the 3090.


3310 on wood: 



Awkward angle and I prefer my right hand for mice. Quick video. I can confirm it works on wood. The issue you generally have with wood though is a clear coating on top. That shouldn't be as much of an issue on the 3310 because it can adjust the LOD.


----------



## Spyrotheterran

Hello everyone I am looking for a new mice and I was wondering if you could help

What's your grip style?
I have small to average hands and my grip style isalm/claw(depending on mouse size)

What's your sensitivity?
400DPI for FPS
800DPI for LoL,DotA and Starcraft

What's your maximum budget?
Don't have one

Do you want additional buttons?
Only 2 are necessery

What games do you play?
Mostly Starcraft and LoL but I play CS:GO and DotA as well

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes please no prediction

Other relevant information
The mouse HAS to be wired, has to have a good software
I currently have a Sensei(Hate it, to heavy and SS software is terrible imo) and a CM Storm Spawn(Love the shape but I hate not having 400 DPI option)
The possible options that I have in mind are Deathadder chroma and the R.A.T 7(Altought I heard they breack quite easily)

Fell free to add opnions and other mices

(Sorry for grammar mistakes, english is not my native language)


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex9106*
> 
> Hey there, so after my Deathadder 3.5g recently broke im looking for a new mouse. No Razer please!
> 
> Grip style - Claw/Palm hybrid
> 
> Sensitivity - 400 DPI, 6/11 Windows, 2.2 Sensitivity in CS:GO
> 
> Maximum Budget - £60
> 
> Additional buttons? - Yes, 2 side buttons if possible
> 
> What games do you play? - FPS, Competitive CS:GO mainly
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? - Yes, id like none of that.
> 
> Additional information - Im in the UK, Id like the mouse to be roughly the size of a Deathadder and a really good sensor would be a must!
> 
> Thanks!


The mouse that's to be most commonly compared to the DA in shape is the Zowie EC1.
If I were you I'd get some mouse you can find for cheap off Ebay like a used DA 3G. Then wait until the refreshed Zowie ECs come out with 3310s.


----------



## Aph-

Hi all! I would like a new mouse which would fit these requirements!

-Grip Style: Palm and/or fingertip.

-Sensitivity: My sensitivity is 800 dpi 2.5 sens in valve games and 6/11 windows

-Additional buttons: I don't mind side buttons that much, but I would prefer none.

Maximum budget is around 60€

-Games: FPS

-Prediction: No prediction or acceleration.

In the light of the mouse click response time charts I would of course want the mouse to have minimum response time.

My hands are baby size so the smaller and lighter the better.

I don't want them to be zowie mice because of the click time and not stable dpi.

Sorry for so tight requirements!


----------



## Alex9106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> The mouse that's to be most commonly compared to the DA in shape is the Zowie EC1.
> If I were you I'd get some mouse you can find for cheap off Ebay like a used DA 3G. Then wait until the refreshed Zowie ECs come out with 3310s.


Hmm that may be a good idea. Any idea when we could expect them roughly or has there been nothing so far?


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex9106*
> 
> Hmm that may be a good idea. Any idea when we could expect them roughly or has there been nothing so far?


Well there have beena bunch of queues. The ECs have been selling out in stores with no restock. The FK1 had the same thing before it came out. Then Zowie changed their logo recently and people are thinking that's a clue that the ECs will sport the new logo and are on their way.

No way to know for sure though.


----------



## hazzy

Grip: Mostly palm
Sensitivity: ~1600 dpi, 2.23 in CS:GO, TF2
Budget: ~$60, would love be under $50 (Canadian $)
Additional Buttons: 2 side buttons would be ideal
Games: CS:GO, TF2, Dota, FFXIV are my main multiplayer games. I really only need good performance for CS, TF2, and other FPS.
Prediction: Hate it. Using a replacement mouse I found around the house and it's unbearable.

I just want a good mouse with no acceleration. I can adjust to different DPI if needed. My last mouse was the Deathadder before the piece under the LMB snapped and it can no longer left click. Other than what seemed to be the poor build quality, I was very satisfied with the deathadder. I would like the mouse to be able to last 2+ years before breaking. It would also help if I was told what surface each suggested mouse is better/worse on. Thanks!


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazzy*
> 
> Grip: Mostly palm
> Sensitivity: ~1600 dpi, 2.23 in CS:GO, TF2
> Budget: ~$60, would love be under $50 (Canadian $)
> Additional Buttons: 2 side buttons would be ideal
> Games: CS:GO, TF2, Dota, FFXIV are my main multiplayer games. I really only need good performance for CS, TF2, and other FPS.
> Prediction: Hate it. Using a replacement mouse I found around the house and it's unbearable.
> 
> I just want a good mouse with no acceleration. I can adjust to different DPI if needed. My last mouse was the Deathadder before the piece under the LMB snapped and it can no longer left click. Other than what seemed to be the poor build quality, I was very satisfied with the deathadder. I would like the mouse to be able to last 2+ years before breaking. It would also help if I was told what surface each suggested mouse is better/worse on. Thanks!


I'm really pleased, because I figured the Rival would be a good choice for you, but didn't know how much it was in Canadian dollars. According to Amazon, it's 39.99.

http://www.amazon.ca/Steel-Series-Rival-Optical-Mouse/dp/B00G6IJ5QK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1419732056&sr=8-2&keywords=rival

I don't know the exact conversion rates between USD and CAD, but I'm pretty sure that's an awesome deal. The Rival is a really nice palm mouse. I'm using it as my current primary, as it's one of the only mice I've ever used that near-perfectly suits my hand. No prediction or acceleration issues. Tracks very nicely on my XTrac Ripper. And you'll probably be happy to know it defaults to 1600 DPI right out of the box. It also has side buttons. Honestly can't recommend this mouse enough.


----------



## hazzy

I was looking at that! Even more interested since you said it defaults to 1600 dpi. How long have you had the mouse for? The main problem with my deathadder is that it didn't even reach the 2 year mark and it actually had problems with double-click before it died (although bearable). Any problems with the Rival? What's a good realistic guess on the lifespan of the mouse without encountering any issues?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazzy*
> 
> I was looking at that! Even more interested since you said it defaults to 1600 dpi. How long have you had the mouse for? The main problem with my deathadder is that it didn't even reach the 2 year mark and it actually had problems with double-click before it died (although bearable). Any problems with the Rival? What's a good realistic guess on the lifespan of the mouse without encountering any issues?


I've only had the mouse for about a month. I can say that it feels solid so far, though. I haven't heard anything about it developing the dreaded double-click issue, but I did hear horror stories about the coating and rubber sides wearing out. Personally, I haven't had any issues, but I think it would be good for folks who have had the mouse longer to give their feedback given the short amount of time I've had with it.


----------



## BliX35

Grip style: Claw

Sensitivity: 450 (or 400)DPI, ~2 sens in CS

Additional buttons: Two thumb buttons is enough

What games: CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?: Yes! No prediction, no acceleration etc. is the way to go for me, as close to 1:1 the movement is, the better

Other relevant information:

With my current setup (mousepad SS QcK+), i move, swipe and lift my mouse A LOT, so a low LOD is a necessity.
I've already discovered the perfect mouse shape/weight for me, which is the ZOWIE EC2-models. I now got experience on 2 of ZOWIE's products, EC2 eVo (black) and EC2 eVo CL. My 1st EC2 broke down after a year of use, and the other one which i got about 3 months ago, has already started malfunctioning (high speed tracking issues, mousewheel, paint coming off).
So current situation is that i basically know what is the best one for me in terms of shape and performance, but taking count my past experience with ZOWIE, im kinda scared to go back to their products :/
If you guys are able to suggest anything thats as close to EC2 in shape/design as possible (120x40x58-65, right handed), is optical and reliable, i would be more than happy!


----------



## Spyrotheterran

(Nobody answered me so I am having to repost)
Hello everyone I am looking for a new mice and I was wondering if you could help

What's your grip style?
I have small to average hands and my grip style isalm/claw(depending on mouse size)

What's your sensitivity?
400DPI for FPS
800DPI for LoL,DotA and Starcraft

What's your maximum budget?
Don't have one

Do you want additional buttons?
Only 2 are necessery

What games do you play?
Mostly Starcraft and LoL but I play CS:GO and DotA as well

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes please no prediction

Other relevant information
The mouse HAS to be wired, has to have a good software
I currently have a Sensei(Hate it, to heavy and SS software is terrible imo) and a CM Storm Spawn(Love the shape but I hate not having 400 DPI option)
The possible options that I have in mind are Deathadder chroma and the R.A.T 7(Altought I heard they breack quite easily)

Fell free to add opnions and other mices

(Sorry for grammar mistakes, english is not my native language)


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spyrotheterran*
> 
> (Nobody answered me so I am having to repost)
> Hello everyone I am looking for a new mice and I was wondering if you could help
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I have small to average hands and my grip style isalm/claw(depending on mouse size)
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI for FPS
> 800DPI for LoL,DotA and Starcraft
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> Don't have one
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Only 2 are necessery
> 
> What games do you play?
> Mostly Starcraft and LoL but I play CS:GO and DotA as well
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes please no prediction
> 
> Other relevant information
> The mouse HAS to be wired, has to have a good software
> I currently have a Sensei(Hate it, to heavy and SS software is terrible imo) and a CM Storm Spawn(Love the shape but I hate not having 400 DPI option)
> The possible options that I have in mind are Deathadder chroma and the R.A.T 7(Altought I heard they breack quite easily)
> 
> Fell free to add opnions and other mices
> 
> (Sorry for grammar mistakes, english is not my native language)


If you love the shape of the CM storm spawn, I'd suggest you consider continuing to use it. If you're having trouble calculating your equivalent sensitivity for a different DPI here is a resource to figure that out http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm . You could also set your mouse to 800 DPI and do 4/11 windows sensitivity which would give you 400DPI.

Out of the two mice you mentioned (Deathadder/RAT7) I'd recommend the DA. The issue you might run into however with the DA is click lag, and a lot of people have noticed a large amount of smoothing with it. With the RAT7 you will experience acceleration, so I'd highly recommend staying as far away from the RAT7 as possible.


----------



## scionix

has anyone used the Corsair Sabre RGB? Looking to try it out as a spawn replacement (similar dimensions/lightweight, make an updated spawn coolermaster PLEASE), as the plastic coating and mediocre side buttons are starting to get on my nerves.


----------



## Aph-

Sorry for posting twice but I really would like to know of any possibilities for a mouse that fits me.

-Grip Style: Palm and/or fingertip.

-Sensitivity: My sensitivity is 800 dpi 2.5 sens in valve games and 6/11 windows

-Additional buttons: I don't mind side buttons that much, but I would prefer none.

Maximum budget is around 60€

-Games: FPS

-Prediction: No prediction or acceleration.

In the light of the mouse click response time charts I would of course want the mouse to have minimum response time.

My hands are baby size so the smaller and lighter the better.

I don't want them to be zowie mice because of the click time and not stable dpi.

Sorry for so tight requirements!


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> 3310 on wood:
> 
> 
> 
> Awkward angle and I prefer my right hand for mice. Quick video. I can confirm it works on wood. The issue you generally have with wood though is a clear coating on top. That shouldn't be as much of an issue on the 3310 because it can adjust the LOD.


Thanks a lot! How does it work on a white surface? White mousepad or a white desk.


----------



## scionix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scionix*
> 
> has anyone used the Corsair Sabre RGB? Looking to try it out as a spawn replacement (similar dimensions/lightweight, make an updated spawn coolermaster PLEASE), as the plastic coating and mediocre side buttons are starting to get on my nerves.


In case anyone cares, I tried the sabre today, not a good shape for fingertippers. Don't bother (mouse is nice though).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex9106*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey there, so after my Deathadder 3.5g recently broke im looking for a new mouse. No Razer please!
> 
> Grip style - Claw/Palm hybrid
> 
> Sensitivity - 400 DPI, 6/11 Windows, 2.2 Sensitivity in CS:GO
> 
> Maximum Budget - £60
> 
> Additional buttons? - Yes, 2 side buttons if possible
> 
> What games do you play? - FPS, Competitive CS:GO mainly
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? - Yes, id like none of that.
> 
> Additional information - Im in the UK, Id like the mouse to be roughly the size of a Deathadder and a really good sensor would be a must!
> 
> Thanks!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BliX35*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Grip style: Claw
> 
> Sensitivity: 450 (or 400)DPI, ~2 sens in CS
> 
> Additional buttons: Two thumb buttons is enough
> 
> What games: CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?: Yes! No prediction, no acceleration etc. is the way to go for me, as close to 1:1 the movement is, the better
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> With my current setup (mousepad SS QcK+), i move, swipe and lift my mouse A LOT, so a low LOD is a necessity.
> I've already discovered the perfect mouse shape/weight for me, which is the ZOWIE EC2-models. I now got experience on 2 of ZOWIE's products, EC2 eVo (black) and EC2 eVo CL. My 1st EC2 broke down after a year of use, and the other one which i got about 3 months ago, has already started malfunctioning (high speed tracking issues, mousewheel, paint coming off).
> So current situation is that i basically know what is the best one for me in terms of shape and performance, but taking count my past experience with ZOWIE, im kinda scared to go back to their products :/
> If you guys are able to suggest anything thats as close to EC2 in shape/design as possible (120x40x58-65, right handed), is optical and reliable, i would be more than happy!


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357


----------



## Huey

1. Grip - Finger tip/claw, but I can work with anything.

2. Sensitivity - 1000hz and 1400 dpi

3. Budget - 50$, willing to pay 70 for something that's absolutely perfect though.

4. Additional buttons - indifferent. 2 on the side for web browsing is nice, but most of the mice I've used have had none or one(Kana v2) side buttons so I'm used to not having any.

5. Games - osu, Starcraft, CS , battlefield, and dota if my friends bug me into playing with them.

6. Yes

I prefer lighter mice(under 100g), a flexible cable(don't care what it's made out of), and very light buttons. The middle mouse button in particular is important to me as in top down games, like Starcraft and dota, I use that button to control my camera. A mouse like the g9x is almost impossible for me to use because of this. A reference for my preference(bars) would be that I loved middle mouse button on the sensei and sensei raw, both very easy and comfortable to press. The only reason I'm not using the raw is because the sensor drives me nuts. I've tried buying the mouse a couple different times and return it after 1-2 weeks because the acceleration is unbearable to me.

I'm really torn between the rival, g302, and g402 right now. I keep reading that the g302 has amazing clicks but a super stiff cord, the rival would be nice because my kana v2 has me wanting to go back to bigger mice but I read that the buttons feel mushy, g402 seems like a good shape but I saw a couple people say the middle mouse button was a bit stiff. It doesn't help that no one uses actual metrics for this sort of thing the way people do for keyboard switches.


----------



## Barciur

Hello everyone.

I'm new to this and really new to the mouse market. Years ago I decided to buy a Razer mouse for gaming and I think it's now been 4 or more years that I've had my Razer Salmosa. Unfortunately, it fell off the desk today and a double-click issue developed, alongside sometimes not registering my clicks. So after trying to clean it out and take it apart and putting it back together, it's still not working. Thus, it seems to be a time for a new mouse.

I will list all of the questions but honestly, an ideal mouse for me would be Razer Salmosa... So, anything similar to it that might work I would greatly appreciate! Unfortuantely, all the new Razer mice seem to have this stupid lighting on it which you can't turn off and I just don't want to go with it.

What's your grip style? - Fingertip / Palm
What's your sensitivity? - Using 800 dpi setting on the mouse
What's your maximum budget? - around $60
Do you want additional buttons? - Prefer not, but one or two on the sides wouldn't be the end of the world
What games do you play? - Mostly FPS, but also games like World of Tanks, and RTS like Age of Empires
Do you mind about prediction? - Not really
Other relevant information:

I'm a lefty so ambidextrous shape is required, prefer something that's wired and as I stated earlier, shape of something like Salmosa would be ideal. Really, another Salmosa would be ideal


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barciur*
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm new to this and really new to the mouse market. Years ago I decided to buy a Razer mouse for gaming and I think it's now been 4 or more years that I've had my Razer Salmosa. Unfortunately, it fell off the desk today and a double-click issue developed, alongside sometimes not registering my clicks. So after trying to clean it out and take it apart and putting it back together, it's still not working. Thus, it seems to be a time for a new mouse.
> 
> I will list all of the questions but honestly, an ideal mouse for me would be Razer Salmosa... So, anything similar to it that might work I would greatly appreciate! Unfortuantely, all the new Razer mice seem to have this stupid lighting on it which you can't turn off and I just don't want to go with it.
> 
> What's your grip style? - Fingertip / Palm
> What's your sensitivity? - Using 800 dpi setting on the mouse
> What's your maximum budget? - around $60
> Do you want additional buttons? - Prefer not, but one or two on the sides wouldn't be the end of the world
> What games do you play? - Mostly FPS, but also games like World of Tanks, and RTS like Age of Empires
> Do you mind about prediction? - Not really
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I'm a lefty so ambidextrous shape is required, prefer something that's wired and as I stated earlier, shape of something like Salmosa would be ideal. Really, another Salmosa would be ideal


Logitech G100s?


----------



## Shozzking

What's your grip style?
I mostly use a fingertip type of grip.
What's your sensitivity?
The more sensitive the mouse is, the better.
What's your maximum budget?
I want to spend under $100 CAD.
Do you want additional buttons?
I just need 2 additional buttons on the side of the mouse. I dont want anything like the MMO mice.
What games do you play?
Mostly LoL and some FPS games
Do you mind about prediction?
I'd prefer not to have it.
Other relevant information:
Right now I have a G9x (my second one) and the side buttons died on me. I'd love to get another one because its the best mouse that I've ever used but it looks like logitech stopped producing it. So i want something thats as similar as possible to it (and not wireless).


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shozzking*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I mostly use a fingertip type of grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> The more sensitive the mouse is, the better.
> What's your maximum budget?
> I want to spend under $100 CAD.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I just need 2 additional buttons on the side of the mouse. I dont want anything like the MMO mice.
> What games do you play?
> Mostly LoL and some FPS games
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I'd prefer not to have it.
> Other relevant information:
> Right now I have a G9x (my second one) and the side buttons died on me. I'd love to get another one because its the best mouse that I've ever used but it looks like logitech stopped producing it. So i want something thats as similar as possible to it (and not wireless).


Logitech G302.
Should check all of the boxes you want.


----------



## szeged

What's your grip style? Fingertip

What's your sensitivity? Around 2500 dpi +/- 100

What's your maximum budget? Any budget $$$$$$ for days

Do you want additional buttons? God yes, i need as many buttons as i can get, i have a naga atm but im beyond done with razer

What games do you play? World of warcraft,. diablo 3, other small unknown MMOs, skyrim, every castlevania ever, non multiplayer shooters (metro etc) far cry 4 etc etc. Mostly MMOs though.

Do you mind about prediction? Nope dont care

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Basically i need a MMO mouse similar to the naga without the garbage quality of the naga. Im done with razer, had so many of their mice go bad on me within 6 months.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity? Around 2500 dpi +/- 100
> 
> What's your maximum budget? Any budget $$$$$$ for days
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? God yes, i need as many buttons as i can get, i have a naga atm but im beyond done with razer
> 
> What games do you play? World of warcraft,. diablo 3, other small unknown MMOs, skyrim, every castlevania ever, non multiplayer shooters (metro etc) far cry 4 etc etc. Mostly MMOs though.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? Nope dont care
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Basically i need a MMO mouse similar to the naga without the garbage quality of the naga. Im done with razer, had so many of their mice go bad on me within 6 months.


Logitech G600, I've heard people are more aware of which side buttons are which since they are contoured.

I'd seriously recommend a Logitech G502 if you can make do with less extra buttons. The G502 is one of the best mice out currently but what kills it for most people is too many buttons and the weight(ergonomics).


----------



## Shemr

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1000hz, around 1500 dpi and 3 in-game sensitivity. (TF2)

3. What's your maximum budget?
Unlimited.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I need the side buttons at the left side of the mouse, and prefer to have atleast an extra button around wheel mouse as well.

5. What games do you play?
Team Fortress II, Borderlands most rpg games, strategy from time to time, not a fan of MOBA.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I'm from Iran and do not have access to all brands, therefore Steelseries and Logitech are prefered. Also *I have Steelseries QcK Heavy so the mouse being able to track on cloth pads are highly important for me.*
I'm currently using Razer Taipan - The worst mouse in the industery of gaming - and use the table as a hard surface since it doesn't work on cloth pads. So the sensitivity may change when the mice changes.
_I hate DeathAdder!_








I prefer my mouse to have wire.
Right now I'm considering Logitech g400s and Steelseries Sensei (Raw) Rubberized.

Thanks and happy new year to all.


----------



## Sprkd1

What's your grip style? Palm-grip.
What's your sensitivity? Don't really care as long as it feels "right". I think I use 800 dpi right now on my G9x.
What's your maximum budget? 100 USD but can go higher if required.
Do you want additional buttons? Standard layouts are fine.
What games do you play? FPS games mostly (i.e. Battlefield 4).
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure what this means.








Other relevant information:
I currently use a G9x (since January 2012). However, while I have gotten use to it, it doesn't really suit my grip style (which is a palm-grip). There is nothing physically wrong with the mouse but I want a more comfortable mouse for me. I was recommended the SteelSteries Rival. Is it worth looking into? I did use a DeathAdder for some time many years back and absolutely loved the shape of the mouse. I felt totally at home with its design/shape. However, I've read they are not very reliable. My brother's DeathAdder that I use to use did crap out some years back.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shemr*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1000hz, around 1500 dpi and 3 in-game sensitivity. (TF2)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Unlimited.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I need the side buttons at the left side of the mouse, and prefer to have atleast an extra button around wheel mouse as well.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Team Fortress II, Borderlands most rpg games, strategy from time to time, not a fan of MOBA.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I'm from Iran and do not have access to all brands, therefore Steelseries and Logitech are prefered. Also *I have Steelseries QcK Heavy so the mouse being able to track on cloth pads are highly important for me.*
> I'm currently using Razer Taipan - The worst mouse in the industery of gaming - and use the table as a hard surface since it doesn't work on cloth pads. So the sensitivity may change when the mice changes.
> _I hate DeathAdder!_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer my mouse to have wire.
> Right now I'm considering Logitech g400s and Steelseries Sensei (Raw) Rubberized.
> 
> Thanks and happy new year to all.


Aurora or FinalMouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sprkd1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm-grip.
> What's your sensitivity? Don't really care as long as it feels "right". I think I use 800 dpi right now on my G9x.
> What's your maximum budget? 100 USD but can go higher if required.
> Do you want additional buttons? Standard layouts are fine.
> What games do you play? FPS games mostly (i.e. Battlefield 4).
> Do you mind about prediction? Not sure what this means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I currently use a G9x (since January 2012). However, while I have gotten use to it, it doesn't really suit my grip style (which is a palm-grip). There is nothing physically wrong with the mouse but I want a more comfortable mouse for me. I was recommended the SteelSteries Rival. Is it worth looking into? I did use a DeathAdder for some time many years back and absolutely loved the shape of the mouse. I felt totally at home with its design/shape. However, I've read they are not very reliable. My brother's DeathAdder that I use to use did crap out some years back.


Rival is bad.

Aurora or FinalMouse.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shemr*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1000hz, around 1500 dpi and 3 in-game sensitivity. (TF2)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Unlimited.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I need the side buttons at the left side of the mouse, and prefer to have atleast an extra button around wheel mouse as well.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Team Fortress II, Borderlands most rpg games, strategy from time to time, not a fan of MOBA.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I'm from Iran and do not have access to all brands, therefore Steelseries and Logitech are prefered. Also *I have Steelseries QcK Heavy so the mouse being able to track on cloth pads are highly important for me.*
> I'm currently using Razer Taipan - The worst mouse in the industery of gaming - and use the table as a hard surface since it doesn't work on cloth pads. So the sensitivity may change when the mice changes.
> _I hate DeathAdder!_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer my mouse to have wire.
> Right now I'm considering Logitech g400s and Steelseries Sensei (Raw) Rubberized.
> 
> Thanks and happy new year to all.


If it needs to be Logitech or Steelseries I'd say go for G302 or Kana V2 for fingertip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sprkd1*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm-grip.
> What's your sensitivity? Don't really care as long as it feels "right". I think I use 800 dpi right now on my G9x.
> What's your maximum budget? 100 USD but can go higher if required.
> Do you want additional buttons? Standard layouts are fine.
> What games do you play? FPS games mostly (i.e. Battlefield 4).
> Do you mind about prediction? Not sure what this means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I currently use a G9x (since January 2012). However, while I have gotten use to it, it doesn't really suit my grip style (which is a palm-grip). There is nothing physically wrong with the mouse but I want a more comfortable mouse for me. I was recommended the SteelSteries Rival. Is it worth looking into? I did use a DeathAdder for some time many years back and absolutely loved the shape of the mouse. I felt totally at home with its design/shape. However, I've read they are not very reliable. My brother's DeathAdder that I use to use did crap out some years back.


The Rival was fine for me, and I wouldn't use the aurora for palm grip.
I'd rather look at the G402 if you want another Palm option.


----------



## Sprkd1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> If it needs to be Logitech or Steelseries I'd say go for G302 or Kana V2 for fingertip.
> The Rival was fine for me, and I wouldn't use the aurora for palm grip.
> I'd rather look at the G402 if you want another Palm option.


Thanks. What's the difference between the G402 and the G502 in terms of shape/size/design? Can you palm grip the G502?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Palming the aurora depends on your hand size. I have large hands (21.5cm length, 10cm width) and I can almost comfortably palm the aurora (starts to cramp after an hour or so). The FinalMouse is larger though.

The G402 is lighter than the G502 and has a different sensor. Palming these mice also depends on your hand size. They were too thin for me to palm and cramped my hand. They are thinner than their predecessors - the 518, g5/500, etc.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sprkd1*
> 
> Thanks. What's the difference between the G402 and the G502 in terms of shape/size/design? Can you palm grip the G502?


You can Palm both, they are very similar in shape. The G502 is more expensive (obviously) and heavier, mainly because of the metal scroll wheel which is able to be used in free scroll mode.
The sensor in the G502 is a bit better, but I found the G402 to be excellent as well, so I'd rather recommend that.


----------



## Shemr

Thanks for both answers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> If it needs to be Logitech or Steelseries I'd say go for G302 or Kana V2 for fingertip.


It doesn't need to be Logitech or Steelseries, these two brands are what most retailers work with here. So if there's any other mice that you have in mind please suggest.


----------



## karod

What's your grip style?
palm
What's your sensitivity?
~1000-1200 cpi (2560x1080 Monitor)
What's your maximum budget?
~50-60€ maybe more
Do you want additional buttons?
at least M4 and M5
What games do you play?
depends: Trine2, Assassin's Creed, GTA, CIV5, Tropico, some MMORPGs
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:
I used a Deathadder for many years (first 1800dpi model, then the respawn 3.5g and now the 2013 model). I bought a Logitech G502 for 44€ some days ago, that was on sale. What I like about the G502 is, that the narrowest part is slimmer than on the Deathadder. So I search for a mouse that is similar to the Deathadder but that is slimmer. The Deathadder feels bulky in direct comparison.
The mouse wheel of the G502 is horrible for me, really coarse. I can't stand it. But I like the crisp click feel of the M1 on G502 more than that of the Deathadder.
What I noticed was: I grip the Deathadder in 1-3-1 grip. While I also grip the G502 in that way, to comfortably use the mouse wheel, the 1-2-2 grip gives me more control for movement. I can't use that (1-2-2) grip on the Deathadder, its to wide


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karod*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> ~1000-1200 cpi (2560x1080 Monitor)
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~50-60€ maybe more
> Do you want additional buttons?
> at least M4 and M5
> What games do you play?
> depends: Trine2, Assassin's Creed, GTA, CIV5, Tropico, some MMORPGs
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> Other relevant information:
> I used a Deathadder for many years (first 1800dpi model, then the respawn 3.5g and now the 2013 model). I bought a Logitech G502 for 44€ some days ago, that was on sale. What I like about the G502 is, that the narrowest part is slimmer than on the Deathadder. So I search for a mouse that is similar to the Deathadder but that is slimmer. The Deathadder feels bulky in direct comparison.
> The mouse wheel of the G502 is horrible for me, really coarse. I can't stand it. But I like the crisp click feel of the M1 on G502 more than that of the Deathadder.
> What I noticed was: I grip the Deathadder in 1-3-1 grip. While I also grip the G502 in that way, to comfortably use the mouse wheel, the 1-2-2 grip gives me more control for movement. I can't use that (1-2-2) grip on the Deathadder, its to wide


aurora or FinalMouse


----------



## anotherrandom

*What's your grip style?*
fingertip

*What's your sensitivity?*
not sure, it's about an inch from one side of my screen to the other, so I guess ~2000 dpi?

*What's your maximum budget?*
I'd say around £40

*Do you want additional buttons?*
just a few side-buttons (programmable keys interests me)

*What games do you play?*
MMOs, mostly, no modern FPS stuff.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
no prediction at all is really important

*Other relevant information:*
I couldn't find the one I'm currently using online, but it feels good. Wired, fairly chunky. 50g, 2.75x4 inches with the shaped sides, fits perfectly. I've only ever had a plain mouse with a plastic wire. Accuracy is really important. Finish/look I'm not too interested in. No special buttons to temporarily lower the sensitivity or w/e. I'm right-handed. I hate really light mice and small mice. Oh, and I use a hard surface.


----------



## flibblesh

What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
Around 20cm/360
What's your maximum budget?
Unsure at this point
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes
What games do you play?
CS:GO, CS:S
Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably none but I can adjust
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Wired (lots of interference in my area for some reason)


----------



## kackbratze

What's your grip style?
its claw I guess
What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI, 1.4 ingame (cs:go)
What's your maximum budget?
no max
Do you want additional buttons?
m4&m5
What games do you play?
cs: go
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:
I'd prefer a small mouse cause i have pretty small hands. so far Ive played w/ the G400 but I just can't seem to find a good way of holding it because my hand cramps after a while. I was thinking about getting a ZOWIE fk2 but any other suggestion is appreciated.
additional info: I live in germany and I don't think the finalmouse is available here.


----------



## butnero

What's your grip style?
palm + claw mix, have big hands it depends on mice this result is in a deathadder chroma
What's your sensitivity?
2700dpi
What's your maximum budget?
none
Do you want additional buttons?
two

What games do you play?
cod4, csgo, skyrim, LoL, etc
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I would be nice some mice that would have enough space so my little finger dont scratch the mousepad making me miss flick shots


----------



## vanir1337

Quick question guys: does the Logitech G400s have any kind of smoothing? I wanna buy one off ebay but can't be arsed with mice that has smoothing, does this one have?


----------



## peesip

Any (quality) mice with a similar shape to a g700? I gripped one at the store, and I like the grip of it (I think) but would prefer a wired mouse to reduce input delay.

I'm essentially looking for a mouse that I can get an iron grip on as I tend to clench the mouse with a very firm palm grip due to playing with sensitivity in the higher range of the spectrum.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Quick question guys: does the Logitech G400s have any kind of smoothing? I wanna buy one off ebay but can't be arsed with mice that has smoothing, does this one have?


It has smoothing, if you can find yourself a G400 rev2, get that instead.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Quick question guys: does the Logitech G400s have any kind of smoothing? I wanna buy one off ebay but can't be arsed with mice that has smoothing, does this one have?
> 
> 
> 
> It has smoothing, if you can find yourself a G400 rev2, get that instead.
Click to expand...

Essentialy all mice have smoothing. People have said the G400s has more smoothing compared to the G400, but I think in this case it might be placebo. They are using the same sensor but the G400s is using a different srom to get 4000DPI out of a sensor that can only do 3600 natively. I don't think it would affect the lower DPI steps like 400/800 but that's what people say.

If you want no smoothing go with a mechanical mouse or wmo1.1a.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Essentialy all mice have smoothing. People have said the G400s has more smoothing compared to the G400, but I think in this case it might be placebo. They are using the same sensor but the G400s is using a different srom to get 4000DPI out of a sensor that can only do 3600 natively. I don't think it would affect the lower DPI steps like 400/800 but that's what people say.
> 
> If you want no smoothing go with a mechanical mouse or wmo1.1a.


Remember Morier´s crash course about cpi? Actual "real native" cpi is pretty low, smoothing is a way to mask the shortcomings of increasing cpi "endlessly" with the same hardware, has pros and cons imo, and by common definition of native, 4000cpi on G400s would be native.

Also if smoothing is set it acts on every step, except on one platform(AM010), not sure if that is changed yet or not.

Also what do you mean with "Essentialy all mice have smoothing", if you mean "cutting the grid" into smaller pieces then yes, but by definition that is not smoothing.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Essentialy all mice have smoothing. People have said the G400s has more smoothing compared to the G400, but I think in this case it might be placebo. They are using the same sensor but the G400s is using a different srom to get 4000DPI out of a sensor that can only do 3600 natively. I don't think it would affect the lower DPI steps like 400/800 but that's what people say.
> 
> If you want no smoothing go with a mechanical mouse or wmo1.1a.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember Morier´s crash course about cpi? Actual "real native" cpi is pretty low, smoothing is a way to mask the shortcomings of increasing cpi "endlessly" with the same hardware, has pros and cons imo, and by common definition of native, 4000cpi on G400s would be native.
> 
> Also if smoothing is set it acts on every step, except on one platform(AM010), not sure if that is changed yet or not.
> 
> Also what do you mean with "Essentialy all mice have smoothing", if you mean "cutting the grid" into smaller pieces then yes, but by definition that is not smoothing.
Click to expand...

AFAIK the highest DPI the S3095 can do without dividing the image is 3600DPI. I'm not sure where you got 4000.

I think the Ikari optical was using a different srom for different DPI steps. Why would Logitech smooth a DPI step further that doesn't need smoothing. They should know better.

By smoothing I mean post-sensor-imaging processing, the stuff that adds latency that people call smoothing. It seems impossible to avoid this now that mice aren't mechanical/anolog, even then you could say there was smoothing because there would be added latency from the debouncing.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> AFAIK the highest DPI the S3095 can do without any interpolation (dividing the image) is 3600DPI.
> 
> I think the Ikari optical was using a different srom for different DPI steps. Why would Logitech smooth a DPI step further that doesn't need smoothing.
> 
> By smoothing I mean post-sensor-imaging processing, the stuff that adds latency that people call smoothing.


That doesnt make sense as the 3rd step would still be 1800 and not 2000, they would calculate up and from there down.

Well, i would say because that is not how most people "operate", this SROM switching doesnt make much sense instead of calculating from the next higher Step from a company pov. I dont want to reveal as why other havedone the same but you might be able to guess it. Also frankly nobody switched SROM´s "real time" with A3090, so i wouldnt see a need for it anyway, not to mention who knows since when they worked with/on AM010 so they might have seen no need to further improve the platform.

Well, not trying to be a jerk, but calling image processing smoothing is wrong(not to mention that would still be "sensor level"), because as you probably know, smoothing refers to the "frame withholding". (cant recall any technical term in english for that)


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> AFAIK the highest DPI the S3095 can do without any interpolation (dividing the image) is 3600DPI.
> 
> I think the Ikari optical was using a different srom for different DPI steps. Why would Logitech smooth a DPI step further that doesn't need smoothing.
> 
> By smoothing I mean post-sensor-imaging processing, the stuff that adds latency that people call smoothing.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesnt make sense as the 3rd step would still be 1800 and not 2000, they would calculate up and from there down.
> 
> Well, i would say because that is not how most people "operate", this SROM switching doesnt make much sense instead of calculating from the next higher Step from a company pov. I dont want to reveal as why other havedone the same but you might be able to guess it. Also frankly nobody switched SROM´s "real time" with A3090, so i wouldnt see a need for it anyway, not to mention who knows since when they worked with/on AM010 so they might have seen no need to further improve the platform.
> 
> Well, not trying to be a jerk, but calling image processing smoothing is wrong(not to mention that would still be "sensor level"), because as you probably know, smoothing refers to the "frame withholding". (cant recall any technical term in english for that)
Click to expand...

I think they got 2000 from their 4000 dpi step. But the S3095 can do 800 natively, they probably got 400 dpi on the G400 from the 800 dpi step not the 3600.

I realized it was probably the wrong phrase but I don't know the proper terminology. And to clarify I'm not saying getting the image is smoothing, I'm saying converting that image into a movement is smoothing. OK maybe not in a litteral sense of smoothing, but when people talk about smoothing on every forum they are talking about the latency between the sensor "getting" the image and the PC recieving a signal.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I think they got 2000 from their 4000 dpi step. But the S3095 can do 800 natively, they probably got 400 dpi on the G400 from the 800 dpi step not the 3600.
> 
> I realized it was probably the wrong phrase but I don't know the proper terminology. And to clarify I'm not saying getting the image is smoothing, I'm saying converting that image into a movement is smoothing. OK maybe not in a litteral sense of smoothing, but when people talk about smoothing on every forum they are talking about the latency between the sensor "getting" the image and the PC recieving a signal.


Well thats what i said, if 4000 would be interpolated in the traditional sense the 3rd highest step would still be 1800, as interpolating from 3600 to 4000 and then to 2000 wouldnt make any sense in comparison to simply cutting 3600 in half. 

Hard to phrase what i want to say, but calling latency smoothing is just beating around the bush instead of saying "i dont like how sensors that are doing (exaggerated)400*16 feel, not saying it is wrong to use "peasant" words but overall it doesnt help if people who could phrase it more directly or correct arent doing it, stuff like this can go a long way to other forums and sites and in the end we have one words for ten different causes.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I think they got 2000 from their 4000 dpi step. But the S3095 can do 800 natively, they probably got 400 dpi on the G400 from the 800 dpi step not the 3600.
> 
> I realized it was probably the wrong phrase but I don't know the proper terminology. And to clarify I'm not saying getting the image is smoothing, I'm saying converting that image into a movement is smoothing. OK maybe not in a litteral sense of smoothing, but when people talk about smoothing on every forum they are talking about the latency between the sensor "getting" the image and the PC recieving a signal.
> 
> 
> 
> Well thats what i said, if 4000 would be interpolated in the traditional sense the 3rd highest step would still be 1800, as interpolating from 3600 to 4000 and then to 2000 wouldnt make any sense in comparison to simply cutting 3600 in half.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to phrase what i want to say, but calling latency smoothing is just beating around the bush instead of saying "i dont like how sensors that are doing (exaggerated)400*16 feel, not saying it is wrong to use "peasant" words but overall it doesnt help if people who could phrase it more directly or correct arent doing it, stuff like this can go a long way to other forums and sites and in the end we have one words for ten different causes.
Click to expand...

I think their 4000DPI step is 4000DPI from their 3600DPI resolution, but I don't believe they divided the 3600DPI image to get it. I think of it like displaying 1440p signal on a 1080p LCD monitor. It would make sense to me that they stick with the srom they used in the G400 for 800 DPI, but I guess they didn't do that. Still why would they smooth 400/800DPI more when they don't need it? I'll just walk I circles now...

I like how you put it "...and in the end we have one word for ten different causes."


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I think their 4000DPI step is 4000DPI from their 3600DPI resolution, but I don't believe they divided the 3600DPI image to get it. I think of it like displaying 1440p signal on a 1080p LCD monitor. It would make sense to me that they stick with the srom they used in the G400 for 800 DPI, but I guess they didn't do that. Still why would they smooth 400/800DPI more when they don't need it? I'll just walk I circles now...
> 
> I like how you put it "...and in the end we have one word for ten different causes."


It is 4000 on Sensorlevel, its maximum Resolution is simply enhanced, same with A3090. Altough i think we are talking around each other so i just say:

400s: 4000 (native at sensorlevel) ---> 2000 mcu calculated, 800 (native at sensorlevel)---> 400 mcu calculated

400: 3600 (native at sensorlevel) ---> 1800 mcu calculated, 800 (native at sensorlevel)--->400 mcu calculated

This is simply what i meant with it.

The "grid cutting" starts much lower than that, altough i cant give you any specifics for several reasons, but actual cpi of the systems without "magic" is pretty low in comparison. The analogy with the monitor is on the right track, altough of course it is not as simple as that and the other way around makes more sense(like displaying 480p on 1440p), but i can guess with that you can see why "Whoeveritwas" has come up with smoothing, as otherwise it would probably look like total crap.

As for why it is on every Step, i can only guess that it is some kind of limitation in the Hardware, or recoding it to be "adaptive" would be too costly, idk tbh. But if you look at AM010 for example, it has "Adaptive Smoothing", and it is also much newer in comparison to the 10 Year old base of the 3090, which leads imo to the conclusion that 3090 simply isnt capable of it.


----------



## Creo

What's your grip style?
Finger tip / claw, I've used palm in the past. Not entirely important but the former are my preference at the moment.

What's your sensitivity?
1600 to 1800dpi 1000Mhz polling 120Hz screen 120FPS 1080p DVI

What's your maximum budget?
No limit

Do you want additional buttons?
m4&m5 (the two thumb buttons) I'm right handed

What games do you play?
At the moment just Battlefield, primarily play FPS games

Do you mind about prediction?
yes

Other relevant information:

Gaming for over 15 years. Started out on the intellimouse, gone through all the popular logitech models, tried a rocat and razer (middle mouse buttons broke on both) I have been using a G9x since release.

Accuracy is most important for me I guess, prefer no acceleration. Not sure if I should even upgrade but from what I've seen the G9x sensor is flawed? I'm pretty sure the play in the shell is affecting my game play at times (It is a little lose now).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Finger tip / claw, I've used palm in the past. Not entirely important but the former are my preference at the moment.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 to 1800dpi 1000Mhz polling 120Hz screen 120FPS 1080p DVI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> No limit
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> m4&m5 (the two thumb buttons) I'm right handed
> 
> What games do you play?
> At the moment just Battlefield, primarily play FPS games
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Gaming for over 15 years. Started out on the intellimouse, gone through all the popular logitech models, tried a rocat and razer (middle mouse buttons broke on both) I have been using a G9x since release.
> 
> Accuracy is most important for me I guess, prefer no acceleration. Not sure if I should even upgrade but from what I've seen the G9x sensor is flawed? I'm pretty sure the play in the shell is affecting my game play at times (It is a little lose now).


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM and aurora have the next best sensors of recent mice I've tested.


----------



## Creo

Thanks for the reply but I made an impulse buy on the G502 already as I saw it going cheap on amazon >< I've read that this doesn't have any smoothing/prediction/acceleration.

I'm at home now and had a look at the lowest speed I use, it's actually 1450 with the highest setting being 1600. The reason I use higher sensitivity is due to the little space I have on my desk, that and I've gradually increased sensitivity over the years as I bought higher and higher DPI mice. I didn't notice any negative effects. I do remember doing massive sweeps with my arms as a kid using intellimice and the early logitechs though.

Right now I am able to aim extremely accurately through muscle memory by learning to stop after a certain amount of travel. In my mind I thought the smaller the physical action the faster my in game reaction.

From that link I get the impression that lower DPI is better? I've just been going with "what feels right".

I'm pretty tired due to lack of sleep the last couple of days so I'm finding that link a bit difficult to process


----------



## Kermit879

What's your grip style? Claw/fingertip i think
What's your sensitivity? 400dpi 2 7/11
What's your maximum budget? UNlimited
Do you want additional buttons? Just the 2 on the side really
What games do you play? CSGO, Dayz, Arma 2/3, BF3/4
Do you mind about prediction? Don't want it
Other relevant information: The only real gaming mice I've used are the logitech G502 (had a bad experience, liked the shape a lot but had several issues with it), Zowie Fk1 and deathadder. tried the deathadder and liked the shape more than FK1 but the sensor didn't work as well for me. I used the Deathadder for like 2 weeks and got used to it, but when I switched back to FK1 my aim was better than with the Deathadder and it just felt like it tracked better for me. I don't like the shape of the FK1 and apparently it has a lot of clicking lag (can't say I've really noticed it though) and I think I would like a different texture more. Was looking at Logi G400s (just scared of that because of bad experience with g502 and it's different sensor), Finalmouse 2015 and Ninox Aurora. Finalmouse looks perfect to me but the problems some people are having scare me and that it has a weird lens or w/e changing how it tracks. Basically I want an FK1 with the shape and texture of the Finalmouse and no clicking lag (different click switches would be nice too but not needed) or something similar.
Input anything else you want. Ergonomic shape, textured, same sensor as FK1 would be nice


----------



## Screwball

Kone Pure Millitary


----------



## aka13

Hey everyone,

I have a short question. My 5 year old rat 7 is slowly getting ugly to look at, despite all the care, and I really miss my rubber padding on it's back, which is sadly destroyed by extensive usage.

Now, I wanted to buy another rat 7 after this one expires, but I thought I hear out some experts on the topic. I have fairly big hands, and like my mouse big and heavy.

You have some suggestions for me? WOuld be nice to hear.


----------



## Screwball

Big hands don't mean you can't use a smaller mouse. It is highly dependent on grip style. Big heavy mice can contribute to RSI and the weight makes it harder to aim.

If you insist on a big heavy mouse get the Naos 5000. If not get the Kone Pure Military


----------



## Creo

There's a new rat coming out which was announced at ces. Think there's a thread about it here somewhere.


----------



## aka13

If you happen to git it up, I'd be thankful.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aka13*
> 
> If you happen to git it up, I'd be thankful.


----------



## aka13

Holy **** that looks great, thank you man. I am definately staying with the rat.


----------



## SmashTV

I love the idea of a fully modular mouse but at the same time it is creating many more points of failure.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aka13*
> 
> Holy **** that looks great, thank you man. I am definately staying with the rat.


Let's hope that they make the laser's better than the one from the Infection.


----------



## Elrick

Hot swapping sensors.....Geezus H Khryst







.

This is a FIRST for anyone, complete customization for anyone out there. I have never owned a RAT before but it looks this time to add yet another mouse to my collection.

They've put so much into this model, especially swapping the scroller as well.......my gawd. Too much, it's like a small car built for complete adjustment to your own personal taste. Hoping that this baby is built to last, even for the rabid lot here on OCN.

Very nice 'complicated' device that should sell for a lot, like around $200+ easily.


----------



## aka13

I actually expected a tiny bit more - such design implies that the mouse should work for 3+ years, which means that the buttons/clickers will get pretty much annihilated. Why not let us change the mousebuttons and the switches, too?


----------



## grazer

Hey all first post.

Im looking for a mouse to upgrade from my abyssus. Am looking at the KPM as a candidate. Used to have a G4 years ago that i loved.

What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw

What's your sensitivity?
1800 dpi

What's your maximum budget?
$100

Do you want additional buttons?
two thumb / scroll wheel

What games do you play?
Dota 2 mainly, starcraft / diablo

Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction / accelleration

Other relevant information:
must be wired, low latency. Hand size is 19cm.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## noldevin

What's your grip style?
not sure how to answer... I really like the shape of my Logitech MX518 but it is wearing out
What's your sensitivity?
Middle setting on MX518 (not sure)
What's your maximum budget?
~$75 max
Do you want additional buttons?
I only really need the standard two back/forward side buttons
What games do you play?
LoL, Battlefield 4, various FPS games
Do you mind about prediction?
I probably would prefer not to have prediction, never used a mouse with it that I know of
Other relevant information:
I prefer wired mice. I also don't have/use a mousepad but am open to suggestions.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noldevin*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> not sure how to answer... I really like the shape of my Logitech MX518 but it is wearing out
> What's your sensitivity?
> Middle setting on MX518 (not sure)
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~$75 max
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I only really need the standard two back/forward side buttons
> What games do you play?
> LoL, Battlefield 4, various FPS games
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I probably would prefer not to have prediction, never used a mouse with it that I know of
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer wired mice. I also don't have/use a mousepad but am open to suggestions.


Coming from MX518 you could look into G402.

PS: All MX518 have prediciton.


----------



## Joooordaaaaaaan

1. *What's your grip style?* Fingertip, although I haven't gamed on PC in years, so I just use fingertip during everyday use, gaming may be a completely different story. *TL;DR* = Fingertip

2. *What's your sensitivity?* High. I'm not playing at a desk, so for now I'll be using a large wooden plank across my lap lol (pretty ghetto, I know), so surface space is an issue.

3. *What's your maximum budget?* Up to £70. I'm a first time builder, I'd be a bit uncomfortable spending more. This can stretch if there's something *outstanding* for a few pounds more.

4. *Do you want additional buttons?* Two side buttons on the left hand side (I'm right handed) would be nice. Not a huge deal though.

5. *What games do you play?* FPS.

6. *Do you mind about prediction?* Yes I do mind. I just want raw input.

7. *Other relevant information*: I live in the UK. I have a big palm, but slim fingers, so I need a fairly sizeable mouse with easily accessible buttons. If there is a nice M+KB combo, I'll consider that as well (I was thinking of the CM Storm QuickFire XT or Cherry MX Board 3.0 with Cherry Red's as the KB, so basically an entry level mechanical KB)

_Mouse Pad_

8. *Hard or cloth?* Don't mind. I just want something durable.

9. *Rough or smooth?* Smooth. Why would someone want rough?

10. *Which size approximately?* Small-regular. Anything that's not humongous will do.

11. *What's your maximum budget?* £20

Please help a noob out.


----------



## Screwball

Kone Pure Military


----------



## Killa Cam

What's your grip style?
claw finger grip hybrid
What's your sensitivity?
3200-5400 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
$60
Do you want additional buttons?
no
What games do you play?
fps, rpg, aa
Do you mind about prediction?
yee
Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
really good build quality with some weight - prefer heavier mouse and must have a ring finger rest


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noldevin*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> not sure how to answer... I really like the shape of my Logitech MX518 but it is wearing out
> What's your sensitivity?
> Middle setting on MX518 (not sure)
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~$75 max
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I only really need the standard two back/forward side buttons
> What games do you play?
> LoL, Battlefield 4, various FPS games
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I probably would prefer not to have prediction, never used a mouse with it that I know of
> Other relevant information:
> I prefer wired mice. I also don't have/use a mousepad but am open to suggestions.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grazer*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all first post.
> 
> Im looking for a mouse to upgrade from my abyssus. Am looking at the KPM as a candidate. Used to have a G4 years ago that i loved.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1800 dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> two thumb / scroll wheel
> 
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2 mainly, starcraft / diablo
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no prediction / accelleration
> 
> Other relevant information:
> must be wired, low latency. Hand size is 19cm.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joooordaaaaaaan*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. *What's your grip style?* Fingertip, although I haven't gamed on PC in years, so I just use fingertip during everyday use, gaming may be a completely different story. *TL;DR* = Fingertip
> 
> 2. *What's your sensitivity?* High. I'm not playing at a desk, so for now I'll be using a large wooden plank across my lap lol (pretty ghetto, I know), so surface space is an issue.
> 
> 3. *What's your maximum budget?* Up to £70. I'm a first time builder, I'd be a bit uncomfortable spending more. This can stretch if there's something *outstanding* for a few pounds more.
> 
> 4. *Do you want additional buttons?* Two side buttons on the left hand side (I'm right handed) would be nice. Not a huge deal though.
> 
> 5. *What games do you play?* FPS.
> 
> 6. *Do you mind about prediction?* Yes I do mind. I just want raw input.
> 
> 7. *Other relevant information*: I live in the UK. I have a big palm, but slim fingers, so I need a fairly sizeable mouse with easily accessible buttons. If there is a nice M+KB combo, I'll consider that as well (I was thinking of the CM Storm QuickFire XT or Cherry MX Board 3.0 with Cherry Red's as the KB, so basically an entry level mechanical KB)
> 
> _Mouse Pad_
> 
> 8. *Hard or cloth?* Don't mind. I just want something durable.
> 
> 9. *Rough or smooth?* Smooth. Why would someone want rough?
> 
> 10. *Which size approximately?* Small-regular. Anything that's not humongous will do.
> 
> 11. *What's your maximum budget?* £20
> 
> Please help a noob out.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killa Cam*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> claw finger grip hybrid
> What's your sensitivity?
> 3200-5400 dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> Do you want additional buttons?
> no
> What games do you play?
> fps, rpg, aa
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yee
> Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> really good build quality with some weight - prefer heavier mouse and must have a ring finger rest


KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, the shape is arguably significantly better, and it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.


----------



## xXDarkenSoulXx

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Mid

3. What's your maximum budget?
60-70 ish

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Regular layout with foward, backward and middle click is fine. Additional buttons like in the G700 would be great

5. What games do you play?
Rpg, Rts, and a little of mmo and fps

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't mind

7. Other relevant information:
Wireless and same ergonomics like the razer naga and mionix naos. I've tried the G700s, G602 and the shape of the naga felt most comfortable to me.

To get an idea of my ideal mouse, a wireless Mionix naos with the G700s buttons would be perfect.


----------



## hza

There is the wireless Razer Naga Epic Chroma. Not sure, if you checked that out already.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXDarkenSoulXx*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Mid
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 60-70 ish
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Regular layout with foward, backward and middle click is fine. Additional buttons like in the G700 would be great
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Rpg, Rts, and a little of mmo and fps
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't mind
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Wireless and same ergonomics like the razer naga and mionix naos. I've tried the G700s, G602 and the shape of the naga felt most comfortable to me.
> 
> To get an idea of my ideal mouse, a wireless Mionix naos with the G700s buttons would be perfect.


I think it might have turned into vaporware but there was a Mionix mouse anounced in 2013 (I think) that was similar to naos shape but wireless. It used its mouse pad as a charging station, that's the mouse I'd recommend to you but I think it's dead in the water.

A Razer Mamba might be a good mouse for you as well.

Edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> There is the wireless Razer Naga Epic Chroma. Not sure, if you checked that out already.


Dang, I didn't know they made that. That would probably be the best fit.

also:
Do you need a wireless mouse? And do you want a laser mouse? I always feel icky when I recommend wireless-laser mice. :s


----------



## xXDarkenSoulXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> There is the wireless Razer Naga Epic Chroma. Not sure, if you checked that out already.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I think it might have turned into vaporware but there was a Mionix mouse anounced in 2013 (I think) that was similar to naos shape but wireless. It used its mouse pad as a charging station, that's the mouse I'd recommend to you but I think it's dead in the water.
> 
> A Razer Mamba might be a good mouse for you as well.
> 
> Edit:
> Dang, I didn't know they made that. That would probably be the best fit.
> 
> also:
> Do you need a wireless mouse? And do you want a laser mouse? I always feel icky when I recommend wireless-laser mice. :s


Thank's for the suggestions guys. I was drooling all over the Mionix concept when I first saw it but sadly it has never made it to production. As for the naga epic, yes I have looked at it before but I decided against it because of the price, propriety battery and reliability of razer mice. Honestly I don't really care about the whole laser vs optical debate because I'm not that serious of a gamer. Also wireless isn't a must but it's nice to have. If it comes to it, the Naos 7000 will be my next mouse.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXDarkenSoulXx*
> 
> Thank's for the suggestions guys. I was drooling all over the Mionix concept when I first saw it but sadly it has never made it to production. As for the naga epic, yes I have looked at it before but I decided against it because of the price, propriety battery and reliability of razer mice. Honestly I don't really care about the whole laser vs optical debate because I'm not that serious of a gamer. Also wireless isn't a must but it's nice to have. If it comes to it, the Naos 7000 will be my next mouse.


No problem.
Laser vs. optical isn't a debate. All laser mice have acceleration which means they move variably to how fast you move your mouse, optical can move linearly to how fast you move your mouse. I.e. If you move your 400 DPI laser mouse 2" at 0.1" per second you move 800 pixels in total, then if you move your 400 DPI laser mouse 2" at 1" per second you move 1337+/-420 pixels. If you take a decent 400 DPI optical mouse move it 2" at 0.1" you move 800 pixels, if you move it at 2" at 1" per second you move 800 DPI still. The only aspect of laser mice that is a debate is that some of them track better than optical mice on transparent/uniform surfaces; but that's a subjective debate and boils down to this:
_Are you on the move a lot and need a mouse that will track on the most surfaces?_ If yes _are you willing to carry around a mouse pad?_ If no go laser.
_Are you on a stationary PC and want a mouse that will track accurately and consistently?_ If yes go optical.
It has nothing to do with whether or not you're a gamer it has more to do if you want good mouse or not and what your circumstances are.

Sorry for the rant but you hit a chord with me.


----------



## Joooordaaaaaaan

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Any suggestions on mousepads? I wouldn't mind buying both a cloth and a foam pad to see which I like more, is there anything decent for under £10?


----------



## Kermit879

Steelseries QCK series or supermat


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joooordaaaaaaan*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions guys. Any suggestions on mousepads? I wouldn't mind buying both a cloth and a foam pad to see which I like more, is there anything decent for under £10?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> Steelseries QCK series or supermat


^This.
If you have trouble finding the super mat, it's made by a company called handstands.


----------



## ShineAnder

G400S or G402 Guys? Neglect the Shape. Stuck in which mouse will performs better overall.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShineAnder*
> 
> G400S or G402 Guys? Neglect the Shape. Stuck in which mouse will performs better overall.


What made you narrow down to those two?


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShineAnder*
> 
> G400S or G402 Guys? Neglect the Shape. Stuck in which mouse will performs better overall.


According to a lot of people the G400s has a significant amount of smoothing.
The tracking on the G402 switches from sensor to gyrometer/accelerometer after about 3m/s IMO it doesn't do this well enough, but other people think it does.

G400s has a max tracking speed of 4m/s (I think, but it might be a bit higher)
G402s has a max tracking speed of way higher than that but sensor wise it's about 3m/s.

I'd say neither and go for a G400 rev2, G302, or G502.


----------



## ShineAnder

Well in my place there is only g502 and g400s/402 available. The Weight in G502 is a dealbreaker to me. I lift the mouse often and play with med sens which i rarely moves my mouse quickly. I think both of these mice are great that really throw me into midst of confusion about which of the mouse performs better in terms of tracking quality.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShineAnder*
> 
> Well in my place there is only g502 and g400s/402 available. The Weight in G502 is a dealbreaker to me. I lift the mouse often and play with med sens which i rarely moves my mouse quickly. I think both of these mice are great that really throw me into midst of confusion about which of the mouse performs better in terms of tracking quality.


If you prefer 3 fingers on top go G400, if you prefer 2 go G402. Both sensors are fine.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> According to a lot of people the G400s has a significant amount of smoothing.
> The tracking on the G402 switches from sensor to gyrometer/accelerometer after about 3m/s IMO it doesn't do this well enough, but other people think it does.
> 
> G400s has a max tracking speed of 4m/s (I think, but it might be a bit higher)
> G402s has a max tracking speed of way higher than that but sensor wise it's about 3m/s.
> 
> I'd say neither and go for a G400 rev2, G302, or G502.


G302 is good enough, G402 isn't. Interesting.


----------



## ShineAnder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> G302 is good enough, G402 isn't. Interesting.


I thought its the other way round. Or not?


----------



## slumpie

As long as you don't exceed the PCS the G302 is usually the better choice, unless you dislike the shape.


----------



## hza

That was a joke. Same sensor arch in both.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> That was a joke. Same sensor arch in both.


Yes same sensor, not same arch.


----------



## slumpie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> That was a joke. Same sensor arch in both.


Same Sensors doesn't make two mice the same.


----------



## hza

You're no bullveyrs, dems', inos, skylits. Please don't try to explain things you don't understand.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You're no bullveyrs, dems', inos, skylits. Please don't try to explain things you don't understand.




On the Topic, one of the 302/402 has a more "Raw" Implementation, you can find out yourself which one it is. 

Also different sensors can share the same architecture, but the same Sensor cant have a different Architecture, because frankly that would make it a different sensor.


----------



## bloodyr

Hello,

I didnt pay much attention to what was going recently on the mouse market so I need some help. I am looking for a replacement for my deathadder black edition. Sensor feels ok but what I need is glossy sides and prediction/angle snapping - so basically I want something as close as possible to deathadder 3g









What's your grip style? palm
What's your sensitivity? 40/360
What's your maximum budget? 100$
Do you want additional buttons? 2 on left side
What games do you play? fps/moba
Do you mind about prediction? no, I want to have it
Other relevant information:
glossy sides, flawless sensor


----------



## hza

Oh well, I can't think of everyone, woll3! Sure they're different, every sensor is (slightly) different to the other. However, same sensor in 2 different mice makes it still very similar. And as you read, that guy even claimed "same sensor, not same arch". You can imagine the rest.


----------



## teamrushpntball

Hoping to grab some input for a new mouse, believe my Mionix Naos 3200 is starting to die (Missing clicks on side buttons).

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low to Mid sensitivity, I play vary few shooters.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under $120 usd

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 extra buttons on thumb side, more would be nice but not too excessive (IE not 12 buttons crammed onto the thumb side)

5. What games do you play?
WoW, Skyrim, Witcher, Random RPG's, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not particularly

Had looked into the Gigabyte Aorus and the EVGA Torq, or maybe another Mionix since I do find the one I have comfortable.


----------



## slumpie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You're no bullveyrs, dems', inos, skylits. Please don't try to explain things you don't understand.


I said the G302 is usually the better choice as long as you don't exceed the PCS, unless it comes to shape and that sort of things (personal preference).
You clearly didn't like that and by looking at your reply all you said is that it's nonsense and the G402 and G302 is the same, that it doesn't matter which one you choose.

I don't have to be bullveyr, dem, ino, sklylit or whoever else, it doesn't matter. I never claimed to be one of them.
Are you one of those? But right, I guess new members must always be wrong... awesome explanation, really...









I just wrote what I believe, my honest opinion, what I think is right, and at the end it always comes down to that.

It's cool, I get your point of view. Go ahead, look at other peoples opinion, I'm not the only one who thinks so, but I'm sure there are also people who would agree with you. Go ahead, find it out for yourself!










EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Sure they're different, every sensor is (slightly) *different* to the other. However, same sensor in 2 different mice makes it still very *similar*.


As I can see you already knew it, what's the point then to jump on me?

Different, similar, I think we both know that these words don't exactly describe the term "same".

But it's nice that we start to agree with eachother.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> Hoping to grab some input for a new mouse, believe my Mionix Naos 3200 is starting to die (Missing clicks on side buttons).
> 
> Had looked into the Gigabyte Aorus and the EVGA Torq, or maybe another Mionix since I do find the one I have comfortable.


In case you really like the Naos 3200, then maybe the Naos 7000 would work.


----------



## TONSCHUH




----------



## hza

I wasn't referring to you, slumpie.


----------



## slumpie

Oh ok, I thought it was because your post came directly after mine.

I guess it's alright then.


----------



## noldevin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Coming from MX518 you could look into G402.
> 
> PS: All MX518 have prediciton.


Do you think the G502 or even the G400s are worth the extra money? Or should I stick to the 402?
I've also determined that I am a palm grip if that helps any.


----------



## Maximillion

MX518/G400s shape is better for palm grip than both the 402 and 502 unless you have small hands.


----------



## hza

I had G502 before G402. I like G402 sltightly better because of shape. Overall they're similar. I like both more than MX518/G400 though. If it's worth or not is up to you. You should try both in a computer store to see what you prefer, if you have the possibility. I can't decide that for you.


----------



## MissFusion

Hey guys, looking for a keyboard and mouse now that I have sorted out all the main hardware that I needed to buy. So now tiny bits and bobs to go










What's your grip style? Palm grip
What's your sensitivity? Not fussy, something midrange I guess
What's your maximum budget? £40ish
Do you want additional buttons? Not fussy
What games do you play? Rise of Nations, Civ IV, some racing games, AC, BF4, a whole range really
Do you mind about prediction? What is prediction???
Other relevant information: Something that is comfortable and WIRED, atm I am using an Anker vertical mouse, but it is not great for games to be honest. No Razer please! I would like to buy from a company that has good customer service.

Thank you!!!


----------



## TONSCHUH

Is there a big difference in performance between the Kone XTD Optical and the Kone Pure Military ?

The KPM has the size of my Ballista MK-1, which I would prefer.

I will also go back from Hard-Mouse-Pad's to a Taito Mid 5mm.


----------



## butnero

*What's your grip style?
*
mix of palm with claw

*What's your sensitivity?
*2450 DPI

*What's your maximum budget?
*npne

*Do you want additional buttons?
*I would enjoy 2 thumb

*What games do you play?
*all

*Do you mind about prediction?
*yes

*Other relevant information:
*

Can I buy a mousepad from any brand?


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> Hoping to grab some input for a new mouse, believe my Mionix Naos 3200 is starting to die (Missing clicks on side buttons).
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low to Mid sensitivity, I play vary few shooters.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Under $120 usd
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 extra buttons on thumb side, more would be nice but not too excessive (IE not 12 buttons crammed onto the thumb side)
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> WoW, Skyrim, Witcher, Random RPG's, etc.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not particularly
> 
> Had looked into the Gigabyte Aorus and the EVGA Torq, or maybe another Mionix since I do find the one I have comfortable.


Naos 7000, good sensor and the same ergonomics you're used to.


----------



## teamrushpntball

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:
Originally Posted by teamrushpntball View Post

Hoping to grab some input for a new mouse, believe my Mionix Naos 3200 is starting to die (Missing clicks on side buttons).

1. What's your grip style?
Palm

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low to Mid sensitivity, I play vary few shooters.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Under $120 usd

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 extra buttons on thumb side, more would be nice but not too excessive (IE not 12 buttons crammed onto the thumb side)

5. What games do you play?
WoW, Skyrim, Witcher, Random RPG's, etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Not particularly

Had looked into the Gigabyte Aorus and the EVGA Torq, or maybe another Mionix since I do find the one I have comfortable.
Naos 7000, good sensor and the same ergonomics you're used to.



Think I'm going to waste $35 bucks and pick up a Naga with Razer's sale tomorrow. I don't like it whatever and I'll order a Naos 7000. Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Corsair's latest gaming mouse - the Sabre, ships with a *high-end, 6,000 DPI Avago ADNS S3988 optical sensor*, strong back-end software and an RGB LED colour system which lets you pick just about any colour for the backlighting.


Quote:


> *Features and Specifications*
> 
> *Optical sensor:* Avago ADNS S3988
> *Sensitivitiy:* 50 DPI - 6400 DPI
> *Mouse Backlighting:* 4 Zone RGB
> *Programmable Buttons:* 8
> *Polling Rate:* 1000Hz/500Hz/250Hz/125Hz
> *On-board Memory:* Yes
> *Weight:* 100g
> *Mouse Feet:* Extra Large PTFE (unbranded Teflon)
> *CUE Software:* Yes
> *Cable:* 1.8m Braided Fiber
> *Dimensions:* 124mm x 80mm x 38mm
> *Warranty:* Two years


Source: Click


----------



## lkpo

What's your grip style? For games - finger tip mostly, for general usage - palm mostly
What's your sensitivity? normal - around 1600, gaming - anywhere from 2000-2800
What's your maximum budget? 60 USD give or take..
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons
What games do you play? everything. but mostly fps/rpg(I'm guessing that for any other game genre, what ever mouse you recommend - it would be fine, yes?)
Do you mind about prediction? I need a mouse with no prediction, no acceleration, no jitters..
Other relevant information: ah - thanks for the help?!


----------



## slumpie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> [URL=http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2314737/%5B/img]http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2314737/[/img[/URL] Source:[URL=http://www.kitguru.net/peripherals/mouse/jon-martindale/corsair-gaming-sabre-optical-rgb-gaming-mouse/]Click[/URL]
> 
> [IMG alt="smile.gif"]https://www.overclock.net/images/smilies/smile.gif


At least they placed the tramp stamp where it belong to, directly above the butt.


----------



## servasky

What's your grip style? Claw grip i guess but not sure.
What's your sensitivity? 1300 in most games and windows. 600-800 in fps games.
What's your maximum budget? Razer sale so no problem
Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 at left side.
What games do you play? Dota2, ARPG and some fps,
Do you mind about prediction? I would prefer not to have prediction. Raw input ftw.
Other relevant information: I had a Sensei and it was pretty comfortable. Recommend me a Razer mouse.
Thanks!


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slumpie*
> 
> At least they placed the tramp stamp where it belong to, directly above the butt.


Yeah, but the mouse looks actually quite nice.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, the shape is arguably significantly better, and it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloodyr*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I didnt pay much attention to what was going recently on the mouse market so I need some help. I am looking for a replacement for my deathadder black edition. Sensor feels ok but what I need is glossy sides and prediction/angle snapping - so basically I want something as close as possible to deathadder 3g
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? palm
> What's your sensitivity? 40/360
> What's your maximum budget? 100$
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 on left side
> What games do you play? fps/moba
> Do you mind about prediction? no, I want to have it
> Other relevant information:
> glossy sides, flawless sensor


FinalMouse 2015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping to grab some input for a new mouse, believe my Mionix Naos 3200 is starting to die (Missing clicks on side buttons).
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low to Mid sensitivity, I play vary few shooters.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Under $120 usd
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> At least 2 extra buttons on thumb side, more would be nice but not too excessive (IE not 12 buttons crammed onto the thumb side)
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> WoW, Skyrim, Witcher, Random RPG's, etc.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Not particularly
> 
> Had looked into the Gigabyte Aorus and the EVGA Torq, or maybe another Mionix since I do find the one I have comfortable.


FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MissFusion*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, looking for a keyboard and mouse now that I have sorted out all the main hardware that I needed to buy. So now tiny bits and bobs to go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm grip
> What's your sensitivity? Not fussy, something midrange I guess
> What's your maximum budget? £40ish
> Do you want additional buttons? Not fussy
> What games do you play? Rise of Nations, Civ IV, some racing games, AC, BF4, a whole range really
> Do you mind about prediction? What is prediction???
> Other relevant information: Something that is comfortable and WIRED, atm I am using an Anker vertical mouse, but it is not great for games to be honest. No Razer please! I would like to buy from a company that has good customer service.
> 
> Thank you!!!


Finalmouse 2015 or Aurora
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a big difference in performance between the Kone XTD Optical and the Kone Pure Military ?
> 
> The KPM has the size of my Ballista MK-1, which I would prefer.
> 
> I will also go back from Hard-Mouse-Pad's to a Taito Mid 5mm.


The KPM performs better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *butnero*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?
> *
> mix of palm with claw
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?
> *2450 DPI
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?
> *npne
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?
> *I would enjoy 2 thumb
> 
> *What games do you play?
> *all
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?
> *yes
> 
> *Other relevant information:
> *
> 
> Can I buy a mousepad from any brand?


FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora

For mousepad, qck, supermat, or other generic pad like allsop raindrop.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lkpo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? For games - finger tip mostly, for general usage - palm mostly
> What's your sensitivity? normal - around 1600, gaming - anywhere from 2000-2800
> What's your maximum budget? 60 USD give or take..
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? everything. but mostly fps/rpg(I'm guessing that for any other game genre, what ever mouse you recommend - it would be fine, yes?)
> Do you mind about prediction? I need a mouse with no prediction, no acceleration, no jitters..
> Other relevant information: ah - thanks for the help?!


FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *servasky*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw grip i guess but not sure.
> What's your sensitivity? 1300 in most games and windows. 600-800 in fps games.
> What's your maximum budget? Razer sale so no problem
> Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 at left side.
> What games do you play? Dota2, ARPG and some fps,
> Do you mind about prediction? I would prefer not to have prediction. Raw input ftw.
> Other relevant information: I had a Sensei and it was pretty comfortable. Recommend me a Razer mouse.
> Thanks!


FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora


----------



## slumpie

Kohler the Aurora isn't exactly suitable for palm grip.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slumpie*
> 
> Kohler the Aurora isn't exactly suitable for palm grip.


Depends on your hand size. I'm 6'8" and I can almost palm it without cramping.


----------



## servasky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, the shape is arguably significantly better, and it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.
> FinalMouse 2015
> FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora
> Finalmouse 2015 or Aurora
> The KPM performs better.
> FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora
> 
> For mousepad, qck, supermat, or other generic pad like allsop raindrop.
> FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora
> FinalMouse 2015 or Aurora


I need a Razer mouse because of 50% discount, can you recommend me a Razer mouse? Thanks!


----------



## hylight

My DA'13 is dying

What's your grip style? Claw / Palm
What's your sensitivity? 7cm/360 or 800 dpi / 1.25 sens
What's your maximum budget? No budget
Do you want additional buttons? Yes
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Nope

I've been thinking about : Fk1, g302, Final Mouse or just waiting for the Rog Sica...


----------



## lkpo

MaximilianKohler - thank you, but I have 2 questions.. first, you gave the same answer(final mouse) to a guy(me) who asked for no prediction(among other things), and to a guy who wanted prediction, so, does it have prediction?

also, I can't get those mice, I should have written what mice companies are available in my country.. sorry, so here they are:

Roccat
SteelSeries
Razer
Corsair
Microsoft
Mad Catz
Logitech
Rapoo
Zowie
Thermaltake
Cooler Master

can you recommend one from these companies? tnx.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *servasky*
> 
> I need a Razer mouse because of 50% discount, can you recommend me a Razer mouse? Thanks!


I can't, because I try not to recommend bad mice, but maybe someone else is willing









Razer doesn't sell the actually good mice they've made in the past anymore, so if I recommended a good razer mouse to you you still wouldn't be able to use your discount because you'd have to get it on ebay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hylight*
> 
> My DA'13 is dying
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw / Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 7cm/360 or 800 dpi / 1.25 sens
> What's your maximum budget? No budget
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? Nope
> 
> I've been thinking about : Fk1, g302, Final Mouse or just waiting for the Rog Sica...


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4100_50#post_23400496

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lkpo*
> 
> MaximilianKohler - thank you, but I have 2 questions.. first, you gave the same answer(final mouse) to a guy(me) who asked for no prediction(among other things), and to a guy who wanted prediction, so, does it have prediction?


huh... would you look at that... opsie!

I'd be curious to hear his explanation for wanting his mouse to have correction in gaming.....

No, the finalmouse doesn't have it. The aurora has it optionally I think.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lkpo*
> 
> also, I can't get those mice, I should have written what mice companies are available in my country.. sorry, so here they are:
> 
> Roccat
> SteelSeries
> Razer
> Corsair
> Microsoft
> Mad Catz
> Logitech
> Rapoo
> Zowie
> Thermaltake
> Cooler Master
> 
> can you recommend one from these companies? tnx.


The Roccat KPM has the best sensor of the most popular recent mice I've tested.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

I'm guessing you're either in asia or south america or africa?


----------



## lkpo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I can't, because I try not to recommend bad mice, but maybe someone else is willing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Razer doesn't sell the actually good mice they've made in the past anymore, so if I recommended a good razer mouse to you you still wouldn't be able to use your discount because you'd have to get it on ebay.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4100_50#post_23400496
> huh... would you look at that... opsie!
> 
> I'd be curious to hear his explanation for wanting his mouse to have correction in gaming.....
> 
> No, the finalmouse doesn't have it. The aurora has it optionally I think.
> The Roccat KPM has the best sensor of the most popular recent mice I've tested.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> I'm guessing you're either in asia or south america or africa?


alright, I'll have a look at Roccat KPM(kone pure military yes?), what do you think about the ss kana v2?(it has a good sensor, what about grip types?) and thanks again for the help.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lkpo*
> 
> alright, I'll have a look at Roccat KPM(kone pure military yes?), what do you think about the ss kana v2?(it has a good sensor, what about grip types?) and thanks again for the help.


Shape seems good but I haven't tried the mouse myself and had problems with the xai shape.

Sensor used to be bad but got updates and is greatly improved from what I hear.


----------



## lkpo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Shape seems good but I haven't tried the mouse myself and had problems with the xai shape.
> 
> Sensor used to be bad but got updates and is greatly improved from what I hear.


Alright, I've narrowed it down to just a few.. I will try them IRL and buy the one that's the most comfortable.


----------



## Kermit879

Switched from an Fk1 to a Roccat Kone Pure Military. Love it and would recommend. I think its good for all grip styles and just an awesome mouse and design.


----------



## Jhereg10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Hehe, I have 21 cm long hands and I used to like palm grip, but it's just so frigging difficult to find a large good mouse. So i switched to fingertip grip and I'm happy now. Try a Zowie FK1, if you don't like it send it back.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> I also went from G502 to FK1 and to me its a much better mouse due to the shape and weight. Hope it suits your needs


Hey guys, I wanted to thank you again for your advice. I ended up going with a Zowie FK1 (got it for Christmas) and the "feel in hand" improvement over what I was using is phenomenal. Much obliged.


----------



## Screwball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> Switched from an Fk1 to a Roccat Kone Pure Military. Love it and would recommend. I think its good for all grip styles and just an awesome mouse and design.


I have had a similar experience with the KPM. Easily the best mouse ive ever used.


----------



## RazerX

Hy guys, i can't decide between the Razer Deathadder (first version) and the Razer Chroma.

What would you choose? any advice?

I'm wondering if the 25€ difference is worth it, i do care a lot about build quality, so i'd rather spend more for something that will last


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RazerX*
> 
> Hy guys, i can't decide between the Razer Deathadder (first version) and the Razer Chroma.
> 
> What would you choose? any advice?
> 
> I'm wondering if the 25€ difference is worth it, i do care a lot about build quality, so i'd rather spend more for something that will last


Dang, that's a pretty big price difference. I'd go with the DA2013 (what you called the first version).


----------



## RazerX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Dang, that's a pretty big price difference. I'd go with the DA2013 (what you called the first version).


The "first version" is actually the first Deathadder version, not the 2013 (i don't like the green colors) that's why the big price difference


----------



## hza

First version means the very first from late 2006 (DA 3G, 1800 dpi) or newer one (DA 3.5G, 3500 dpi)?


----------



## RazerX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> First version means the very first from late 2006 (DA 3G, 1800 dpi) or newer one (DA 3.5G, 3500 dpi)?


The 3500 dpi one


----------



## RentoN

Hey, so I'm currently using a Zowie FK (the very first version).
I'm not really unhappy with my mouse, but I'm curious:
Do the new sensors (3310 and whatever the new "best" sensors are) have any real advantages compared to the 3090?
Don't really care about higher PCS, since I never got any 3090 mouse to malfunction in the first place.
So with PCS out of the picture, is there any reason to upgrade from a 3090?

And if yes, which mice implement the new sensors the best?


----------



## MATRAKA14

What's your grip style? Fingertip with a big hand
What's your sensitivity? I don't know, probably high i dont like to make huge movements with the mouse, but i'm not sure. probably 4000 can be more than enough.
What's your maximum budget? The needed for a mouse that fits me.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes at least 2
What games do you play? All kind, except mmo and racing
Do you mind about prediction? Yes?

Other relevant information:
I don't like razer products at all.
This is going to be my first gaming mouse, i always spend more money in my pc or upgrading, but it's time already to buy a nice mouse.
My hand is 20,5 cm from the base to the end of my middle finger, for some reason im unable to use a mouse without fingertiping, it feels wrong to me, but with my big hands fingertip mices feel too small.
My priorities are shape and sensor.
zowie fk2 and g502 catch my attention
I'm right handed


I use my index finger for wheel an left clic.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> Hey, so I'm currently using a Zowie FK (the very first version).
> I'm not really unhappy with my mouse, but I'm curious:
> Do the new sensors (3310 and whatever the new "best" sensors are) have any real advantages compared to the 3090?
> Don't really care about higher PCS, since I never got any 3090 mouse to malfunction in the first place.
> So with PCS out of the picture, is there any reason to upgrade from a 3090?
> 
> And if yes, which mice implement the new sensors the best?


3310 has native 50cpi increments. It's predecessors (including the 3090) all had specific settings which they'd perform the best on.

As far as performance (accuracy, snappiness, and such), mice with the same sensors perform differently. For example the rival, avior7000, FK1, and KPM all have the 3310, yet all perform differently. So simply getting a 3310 sensor isn't adequate.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 3310 has native 50cpi increments. It's predecessors (including the 3090) all had specific settings which they'd perform the best on.
> 
> As far as performance (accuracy, snappiness, and such), mice with the same sensors perform differently. For example the rival, avior7000, FK1, and KPM all have the 3310, yet all perform differently. So simply getting a 3310 sensor isn't adequate.


Ah thanks, the thing about the 50cpi increments is good to know.

And I already figured that different mice with the 3310 perform differently, that's why I asked which mouse implements it the best.
Probably won't get the FK1, since if I buy a new mouse I want to test a new shape aswell.
Rival is too big for me.
Are the ones you listed the only ones with the new sensor?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Na, there are a few others. I haven't heard much about them though.

There's a new one called FinalMouse, which is possibly the best yet.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There's a new one called FinalMouse, which is possibly the best yet.


Only wish they would sell it everywhere besides Amazon. Very unhappy with the current situation







.


----------



## Swell5

[*] What's your grip style?
*Fingertip*
[*] What's your sensitivity?
*I like fast, 3K-5K dpi*
[*] What's your maximum budget?
*$150*
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
*yes pls*
[*] What games do you play?
*all kinds*
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't want*
[*] Other relevant information:
*Would like:
-The thumb buttons to be further back
- smaller palm area; bothers me to feel the mouse on my palm*.

Thoughts on mousepads would be appreciated as well... I let my wrist rest in the same place as much as the applications allow.

ty as always OC.net


----------



## Thrilhouse

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity?
*usually 1200 to 1800 (though, I think I'll give turning down the windows mouse speed all the way in the future a chance. Seems interesting (if it works))*
What's your maximum budget?
*$100*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes*
What games do you play?
*fps and arpg*
Do you mind about prediction?
*I don't want any prediction.*
Other relevant information:
*I always like the idea of numerous buttons on the side, but all the mice I've had with them (usually 2~ buttons) are typically uncomfortable to use them. My thumb and pinky have an almost claw-like grip.*
Thank you for your help OCN!


----------



## espn

durability is the main concern, any suggestion?


----------



## Screwball

Kone Pure Military

Great build quality and sensor.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> Kone Pure Military
> 
> Great build quality and sensor.


I can confirm it, as I got mine today. Ordered the "Camo Charge", but PC Case Gear sent me the "Dessert Strike" and I can't be bothered to send it back.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> I can confirm it, as I got mine today. Ordered the "Camo Charge", but PC Case Gear sent me the "Dessert Strike" and I can't be bothered to send it back.


You should be on the phone screaming down the line for a Camo Charge, don't let them get away with that. It's basic selling and they've stuffed up, if they were decent they should ship out the Camo Charge for free as a way of apologizing for their monumental stuff up.

Never let retailers walk away with your money because THEY stuffed up your order selection.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> You should be on the phone screaming down the line for a Camo Charge, don't let them get away with that. It's basic selling and they've stuffed up, if they were decent they should ship out the Camo Charge for free as a way of apologizing for their monumental stuff up.
> 
> Never let retailers walk away with your money because THEY stuffed up your order selection.


I informed them about it and they offered me to open a ticket for sending it back.

The thing is, after I had my order completed, the Camo Charge were not showing-up anymore on their website, so I assumed that I were lucky to get the last one.

Now they seem to have it back in stock, but I don't want to wait another 2-3 weeks to get the right color from them.

They must have just grabbed the wrong one as it looks like, because even on the invoice, which came with the mouse, it's the Camo Charge and not the Dessert Strike.


----------



## psych0tic

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *800 dpi ish*
What's your maximum budget? *$150 AUD*
Do you want additional buttons? *As many as one can reasonably use*
What games do you play? *Planetside 2, WoW, Dota, CS:GO in no specific order*
Do you mind about prediction?*Not really*
Other relevant information: *I grew up using a microsoft intellimouse, did really well with it. After that, I went through 2 deathadders and a mamba. I stopped using those because the grip was giving me chronic hand pain so I switched to steelseries sensei, but I'm suffering cutouts during gameplay due to either the drivers/firmware/whatever so I'm keen to avoid the brand in the future. So I guess I'm keen for an intellimous/sensei generic shape with trimmings.*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*Rubber finish;sweaty hands. RGB would be nice to fit in with the rest of my desktop's theme.*


----------



## Raazberry

I currently have a Sensei RAW but it craps out from here to there and there are sometimes that the miniscule acceleration this mouse has throws off my aim and ends up getting me killed, and thank god I happened to get some extra money so I can look for another mouse.

1. What's your grip style? *Palm/Claw hybrid. I tend to switch off here and there between these two.*
2. What's your sensitivity? *800 DPI. Low sensitivity in games.*
3. What's your maximum budget? *$90 USD.*
4. Do you want additional buttons? *Maybe just 2-3 more for either some in game item switching, or DPI switching. Buttons really don't matter to me.*
5. What games do you play? *FPS gamer mainly. CSGO, Insurgency, BF4 and Red Orchestra are my go-tos.*
6. Do you mind about prediction? *Yes.*
7. Other relevant information: *I do tend to play matchmaking on CSGO and do that competitive stuff on there so I value no acceleration. I want the mouse to be as accurate as possible(don't we all?) and my hand size is on the smaller end, so I tend to palm/claw my Sensei RAW. I do prefer a right handed mouse, just because it feels much more comfy to me. Ambidextrous feels a bit weird at times. I went out and tried the G502 in best buy and that fit my hand perfectly, so I guess that's my hand size. against those. Braided/Non braided doesn't matter. Optical is preferred for the no acceleration. I was also looking at a Finalmouse but I'm not too sure if it'd fit my needs.*
8. Anything else: *Build quality needs to be good. This mouse needs to last me years of use. I am careful with my electronics but this Steelseries is already showing signs of death even after a year of use. A rubberized grip would be nice for my thumb and even like a DPI switch button there would be cool, since I would be using that in BF4 for vehicles, but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't have a shift. As long as there is a DPI switch button, I'm cool with it. No real idea about polling rate, I just keep it at 1000 hz and i don't think I have any issues with it. Braided/Non-braided, doesn't matter. Weight doesn't matter too much- It can be light or heavy as the G502 but it just can't be as heavy as a Corsair M65. Optical sensor is paramount.*

If yall can help me out on this, it'd be greatly appreciated.


----------



## myhysae

I'm looking for a new mouse. Currently having a Zowie FK Pro.

*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw / Fingertip
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
800 (currently 1150 i think)
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
not an issue
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
not needed, but i don't mind 2-3
*5. What games do you play?*
Starcraft, WoW, Moba
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes
*7. Other relevant information:*
I live in Germany so not every mouse i available in my country.
*8. Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
I look for a mouse with 80-90g and I want buttons with an activation force like the g302. I tested the Logitech g302 and found the buttons to be perfect for me but the cord makes the mouse unusable (I don't want to **** with the internals, so I will not change the cord or anything). Optical sensor is a must.


----------



## Jazz1G

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
450 dpi
2 sensi in-game (CSGO)

3. What's your maximum budget?
not much of a problem

4. Do you want additional buttons?
2. Need for mic and binding stuffs

5. What games do you play?
Mainly CSGO and a little LoL

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

7. Other relevant information:
-

8. Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

not glossy.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. There have been some recent quality control issues as well.


----------



## mskc33

What's your grip style?
- Claw

What's your sensitivity?
- No idea

What's your maximum budget?
- < 100€
Do you want additional buttons?
- Yes, for browsing forwards and backwards in Chrome

What games do you play?
- CSGO and BF4

Do you mind about prediction?
- Yes

Other relevant information:
- I already tried the G502 and Kone XTD, both broke after a couple of months so they're out. I thought about getting the M65 from Corsair. What does the red button do?

I am from Germany so US retailers are not an option for me. Thanks in advance!


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> I thought about getting the M65 from Corsair. What does the red button do?


----------



## mskc33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> It's a sniper-button, which you usually set-up with a lower DPI-Setting, to make aiming easier / more accurate.


Meh, no need for that. Can you recommend any other mouse that fits my preferences?


----------



## espn

$27 g400s 3 years warranty I don't know better deal than this except u really need high end mouse


----------



## mskc33

I already had 2 G400s die on me two or three years ago.
Either I am having bad luck with mice or every mouse I touch breaks within 6 to 24 months


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> Meh, no need for that. Can you recommend any other mouse that fits my preferences?


Did you see my post right above your first one?


----------



## mskc33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Did you see my post right above your first one?


The FinalMouse may be worth a look, but what about those quality control issues you talked about?
Also, what do you think about the Avior 7000 for (mainly) FPS?


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> Meh, no need for that. Can you recommend any other mouse that fits my preferences?


I went for the KPM + Taito-Mid-Size-5mm and I'm quite happy so far.

Played a bit BF4 and D3:RoS and can't really complain about it.


----------



## mskc33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> I went for the KPM + Taito-Mid-Size-5mm and I'm quite happy so far.


Sorry, whats the KPM?


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> I already had 2 G400s die on me two or three years ago.
> Either I am having bad luck with mice or every mouse I touch breaks within 6 to 24 months


3 yrs warranty just exchange another one


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> Sorry, whats the KPM?


Roccat Kone Pure Military (I believe, correct if wrong)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mskc33*
> 
> The FinalMouse may be worth a look, but what about those quality control issues you talked about?
> Also, what do you think about the Avior 7000 for (mainly) FPS?


I tried the avior before it got the firmware update that people said improved it a lot, so I'm not sure.

Regarding the FM, they do have good customer service and free shipping both ways to amazon if you do get a bad one.


----------



## Ganda

What's your grip style?
Claw

What's your sensitivity?
Not sure... :/

What's your maximum budget?
Anything under 100€ unless the difference is really noticeable!

Do you want additional buttons?
I use a Naga, so yes...









What games do you play?
Mainly Skyrim, Dota 2 and Warframe

Do you mind about prediction?
I do a lot of 3d modeling as well, so it might come in handy since I don't play FPS that much.

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I've been using a Naga for some years and I can't like without the extra buttons anymore. Also, I'd love it if it was wired and could be cleaned more easily that my Naga, since this one gets disgusting within a couple days!
Thanks!


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Military (I believe, correct if wrong)


That's right.


----------



## Wiz766

What would you guys recommend as a good wireless mouse that I can use on HTPC for some light gaming and general use?


----------



## LDV617

I'm about to pull the trigger on the FK1, does anyone know where to get it for the cheapest in the US? Amazon ~$60 seems to be the best deal.

Before I do however, does anyone have any notable problems with theirs?

I've heard it's pretty much the perfect FPS mouse, I currently have a Rival but want something ambidextrous.

The problem with the Rival is that I cannot hold it at a straight angle, my natural grip makes it tilt ~15 degrees which then makes my spray control more random








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wiz766*
> 
> What would you guys recommend as a good wireless mouse that I can use on HTPC for some light gaming and general use?


I don't know much about wireless mice, and I would not recommend one for gaming. Does your HTPC also server as a desktop? Or is it connected to a TV / Living Room / Sofa setup?

I would recommend getting a cheaper wired mouse to game on, and something like this to use with HTPC

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Multi-Touch/dp/B005DKZTMG


----------



## Wiz766

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the FK1, does
> I don't know much about wireless mice, and I would not recommend one for gaming. Does your HTPC also server as a desktop? Or is it connected to a TV / Living Room / Sofa setup?
> 
> I would recommend getting a cheaper wired mouse to game on, and something like this to use with HTPC
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Multi-Touch/dp/B005DKZTMG


Thanks for reply. It will be living room to a TV. That link may be something perfect as the only game I really plan to play would be using a controller if I dont get a good wireless mouse...things like Mortal Kombat or racing games. No server use.


----------



## LDV617

Cool. My friend's father uses that k400 in his HTPC room which I helped setup, I was thoroughly impressed by it. Really easy to use, if you use a desktop OS like Win7 and need full mouse/keyboard functionality it is PERFECT. It can sit on a couch /armrest like a remote, but it is too big to get lost


----------



## Wiz766

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Cool. My friend's father uses that k400 in his HTPC room which I helped setup, I was thoroughly impressed by it. Really easy to use, if you use a desktop OS like Win7 and need full mouse/keyboard functionality it is PERFECT. It can sit on a couch /armrest like a remote, but it is too big to get lost


Yup, will be putting W8.1 since I have extra laying around with PLEX installed. This will work well I think


----------



## wes1099

What's your grip style? - Palm
What's your sensitivity? - 400dpi, usually around a 45cm 360 in games
What's your maximum budget? - $60
Do you want additional buttons? - Side buttons are nice (Mouse4 and Mouse5)
What games do you play? - BF4, Battlefield Hardline, CS:GO, CSS, CS1.6, currently working on tomb raider 2013 and far cry 4.
Do you mind about prediction? - Prediction is very bad. Optical mouse wanted.
Other relevant information: I prefer optical mice, and I really like the shape of the Deathadder and Zowie EC1. I am also not a fan of mushy switches like in the steelseries rival.
Mouse pad - Looking for a relatively large, thick cloth Mousepad that will not fall apart. By thick I mean ~5mm like the Qck+


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - Palm
> What's your sensitivity? - 400dpi, usually around a 45cm 360 in games
> What's your maximum budget? - $60
> Do you want additional buttons? - Side buttons are nice (Mouse4 and Mouse5)
> What games do you play? - BF4, Battlefield Hardline, CS:GO, CSS, CS1.6, currently working on tomb raider 2013 and far cry 4.
> Do you mind about prediction? - Prediction is very bad. Optical mouse wanted.
> Other relevant information: I prefer optical mice, and I really like the shape of the Deathadder and Zowie EC1. I am also not a fan of mushy switches like in the steelseries rival.
> Mouse pad - Looking for a relatively large, thick cloth Mousepad that will not fall apart. By thick I mean ~5mm like the Qck+


qck heavy you mean? Why not just get that?

For mouse I think you'd be happy with a FinalMouse 2015.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the FK1, does anyone know where to get it for the cheapest in the US? Amazon ~$60 seems to be the best deal.
> 
> Before I do however, does anyone have any notable problems with theirs?
> 
> I've heard it's pretty much the perfect FPS mouse, I currently have a Rival but want something ambidextrous.
> 
> The problem with the Rival is that I cannot hold it at a straight angle, my natural grip makes it tilt ~15 degrees which then makes my spray control more random


You heard wrong.

It has a good shape if you have small hands, but that's where the pros end. The sensor is one of the worst implementations of the 3310.

The Ninox Aurora has a better shape & sensor, except it's a 3090 so it lacks the native 50cpi increments. And additionally, there are better mice depending on what specifics you care about most.

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. There have been some recent quality control issues as well.


----------



## Pendulum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Mouse pad - Looking for a relatively large, thick cloth Mousepad that will not fall apart. By thick I mean ~5mm like the Qck+


The QcK Heavy would be what you're looking for. I've been using one for about 4 years now without a single sign of fraying using a Logitech G400 and now a FK2.
It's 44.9cm/17.7in wide and I find it to be much more comfortable than a standard thin pad.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 
> Mouse pad - Looking for a relatively large, thick cloth Mousepad that will not fall apart. By thick I mean ~5mm like the Qck+












I got a Roccat Taito Mid-Size (400x320mm) 5mm, but I can't tell how long it will last.


----------



## cryptos9099

I have had a Taito for 3 years now, abet the 3 mm thickness one. It's only started to fray and peel apart but other than that it in decent condition. And it helps to wash it with water and shampoo when it seems to start changing feel.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> I have had a Taito for 3 years now, abet the 3 mm thickness one. It's only started to fray and peel apart but other than that it in decent condition. And it helps to wash it with water and shampoo when it seems to start changing feel.


Thanks for the info !


----------



## Jeemil89

@Maximilankohler, Have you tested the new Zowie Ec1/2-a with the 3310 already? If so what are your thoughts?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You heard wrong.
> 
> It has a good shape if you have small hands, but that's where the pros end. The sensor is one of the worst implementations of the 3310.
> 
> The Ninox Aurora has a better shape & sensor, except it's a 3090 so it lacks the native 50cpi increments. And additionally, there are better mice depending on what specifics you care about most.


The sensor implementation in the FK1 is far from bad, mine is very close to the Finalmouse in terms of feeling.
And it certainly is a lot better than my Aurora, that one felt completely disconnected to me.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The sensor implementation in the FK1 is far from bad, mine is very close to the Finalmouse in terms of feeling.
> And it certainly is a lot better than my Aurora, that one felt completely disconnected to me.


I'm not very impressed with the Aurora either. I think FK1 feels good.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You heard wrong.
> 
> It has a good shape if you have small hands, but that's where the pros end. The sensor is one of the worst implementations of the 3310.
> 
> The Ninox Aurora has a better shape & sensor, except it's a 3090 so it lacks the native 50cpi increments. And additionally, there are better mice depending on what specifics you care about most.
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. There have been some recent quality control issues as well.


Doesn't the FK1 have the same sensor as the Rival? I currently use a rival so I wouldn't have to adapt much.

Also the shape of the FK1 is truly what I'm after. An ambi mouse that a person with relatively small hands can palm/claw hybrid. Also the switched are better than the rival from what I've heard and the rival switches suck for my playstyle in CS :/


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Doesn't the FK1 have the same sensor as the Rival? I currently use a rival so I wouldn't have to adapt much.
> 
> Also the shape of the FK1 is truly what I'm after. An ambi mouse that a person with relatively small hands can palm/claw hybrid. Also the switched are better than the rival from what I've heard and the rival switches suck for my playstyle in CS :/


What is it that you dislike with Rivals switches? I prefer them over FK1, that shell makes them feel very hard. Huanos in the EC shell feels way better.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The sensor implementation in the FK1 is far from bad, mine is very close to the Finalmouse in terms of feeling.
> And it certainly is a lot better than my Aurora, that one felt completely disconnected to me.


Reports like that really make me curious as to what's causing the discrepancy in experiences.

I know with the KPM I chocked it up to a firmware update, but I'm not entirely sure the firmware update was for the KPM and not the KPO. And pretty much everyone in the KPM thread has been agreeing that the sensor performance is one of the best.
Zowie never did any firmware updates for the FK1 right? So it can't be that.

I wonder how much variance there is from one FK1 to another...

With the FM we narrowed it down to mousepad color, do you know if there have been reports about mousepad color affecting those other mice?

I just remembered, your graph of the Aurora was really messed up. Do you still have it? Have you tried adding the 2nd pair of feet? If that doesn't fix it, maybe you got a defective one...

I'm gonna start saving screenshots of microe's graphs for the mice I test, so at least we can see if there's some kind of discrepancy there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> @Maximilankohler, Have you tested the new Zowie Ec1/2-a with the 3310 already? If so what are your thoughts?


I haven't. All of zowie's sensors have performed very poorly for me, and I don't like that EC shape at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Doesn't the FK1 have the same sensor as the Rival? I currently use a rival so I wouldn't have to adapt much.


Yeah, but each company implements the sensor in different ways that make them vary tremendously.

Firmware has a huge impact.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Also the shape of the FK1 is truly what I'm after. An ambi mouse that a person with relatively small hands can palm/claw hybrid.


Yeah, but the Aurora shape qualifies for all those things as well.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> What is it that you dislike with Rivals switches? I prefer them over FK1, that shell makes them feel very hard. Huanos in the EC shell feels way better.


They feel stiff and inconsistent. Sometimes when I'm 1-tapping it turns into a spray even though the timing is the same. And when spamming with a pistol it doesn't always click fast enough it.


----------



## Esoterodactyl

_What's your grip style?_
- Claw
_What's your sensitivity?_
- Haven't used enough mice to give a useful answer
_What's your maximum budget?_
- $75
_Do you want additional buttons?_
- At least 2 thumb buttons for forward/back navigation, rest fine
_What games do you play?_
- LoL/Starcraft/Osu
_Do you mind about prediction?_
- Not really, but would prefer low prediction
_Other relevant information:_
- To give some more context on what I'm looking for, I'm looking for a mouse for general office and gaming use (MOBAs and RTS). I'm currently using a wireless logitech m510 which does a good job but was wondering if there is a better product out there. Because I want to use it at work as well, I'd prefer a more understated look over something like a g502, KPM, or razer mice. I've never used macros before, but am open to the option if available. Something that stuck out to me so far was the Zowie FK2 (my hands are on the small side) or their new EC2-A. I don't play the aforementioned games competitively or do heavy graphic work so I'll likely not notice a slightly inferior sensor, but I do appreciate solid built quality that fits more comfortably than the m510. Just want a second opinion, and if you think I don't even need a gaming mouse, please let me know your suggestions as well. Much appreciated!


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> qck heavy you mean? Why not just get that?
> 
> For mouse I think you'd be happy with a FinalMouse 2015.


I'm not liking how the FinalMouse 2015 only has a 500hz refresh rate. Any other suggestions? I am looking into the Zowie EC1-A.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I'm not liking how the FinalMouse 2015 only has a 500hz refresh rate. Any other suggestions? I am looking into the Zowie EC1-A.


500hz = 2ms
1000hz = 1ms

The difference is so insignificant for almost everything. The only time I've ever heard of someone noticing a difference is with a 144hz monitor WITH lightboost ON (which has it's own negatives - I turn it off).

The other best mouse is the MLT04, which is usually run at 500hz as well, because it's rarely stable at 1000hz.

The difference between the FM/MLT04 vs an inferior mouse is tremendously more significant than the difference between 500 vs 1000hz.

It would be like choosing a cessna because your jet had a bad paint job...


----------



## Rei86

~ What's your grip style?

Mostly on a clawish style, while at times its fingertip palm (I think that's what they call it).

~ What's your sensitivity?

In most mouse that gives you a ability to switch settings, I like to be in the 2000~3500dpi range for gaming and desktop

~ What's your maximum budget?

I really don't want to spend something stupid like 200 USD on a mouse

~ Do you want additional buttons?

Thumb buttons are nice

~ What games do you play?

I'm a casual player of everything. MMO, MOBA, FPS, RTS etc etc.

~ Do you mind about prediction?

No idea what this was so I had to look it up, I guess i really have no preference.

~ Other relevant information:

So the weight of the mouse doesn't really bother me but a few things I like to point out. I've used a Naga Hex since launch and have been in love with the six thumb buttons that it provides. I don't use them all but I do enjoy using most of them in games like Diablo 3. Also the size of the mouse is kind of perfect for my small hands. That's the main thing for me ATM, i decided to give my old Naga Hex to a friend since its been having an annoying double clicking issue with the back button, and the number 4 thumb button was either not responding or triple clicking.

Bought a Logitech G600 and G502 to replace it with and I have to say... I really hate the G600. While I love the feet of that mouse as it made it butter smooth to glide on any of my mouse matt surface (IE I have a PureTrak Talent and steelseries 4H), it was just to big in my hands and when pushing the top roll of thumb buttons I noticed my hand would go up and my ring/pinky finger would be in the air... yeah I know weird.

The G502 I loved it. The size was perfect but having the DPI up and down buttons right next to my index button would have me pushing on it during game and it would get annoying. And when I changed it to actually something useful in game it was really out of the way for me.

So with that I'm on the market for another mouse to just play with. Again I bought a Naga Hex after taking the G600 and G502 back today. Looking forward to your suggestions about what else is out there in the world. But please take into my consideration of having a small hand.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 500hz = 2ms
> 1000hz = 1ms
> 
> The difference is so insignificant for almost everything. The only time I've ever heard of someone noticing a difference is with a 144hz monitor WITH lightboost ON (which has it's own negatives - I turn it off).
> 
> The other best mouse is the MLT04, which is usually run at 500hz as well, because it's rarely stable at 1000hz.
> 
> The difference between the FM/MLT04 vs an inferior mouse is tremendously more significant than the difference between 500 vs 1000hz.
> 
> It would be like choosing a cessna because your jet had a bad paint job...


I agree. I thoroughly enjoy my FinalMouse and even my G100s even though they have Cessna Cursor. I play on a 144 hz monitor (no lightboost) and have felt no discernible difference in performance or my gameplay experience compared to other mice I use @ 1000hz.


----------



## butnero

*1 What's your grip style?
2 What's your sensitivity?
3 What's your maximum budget?
4 Do you want additional buttons?
5 What games do you play?
6 Do you mind about prediction?
7 Other relevant information:*

1- Claw

2- 2400DPI

3-No budget

4- Two thumb be great

5- FPS/MOBA/RPG/MMO anything really

6- yes

7- I just want a mouse with no issue for 2400 DPI and no issue with other stuff also I was going to buy a g502 but Its said to jitter after 2000DPI? Also would be nice something about 103g less I used to have a sensei fnatic which has 103g and switched to deathadder around 105g as website info, but this **** is so heavier than the sensei, weight distribuition maybe?


----------



## glue33

*What's your grip style?*
_Fingertip grip, but i was thinking to go with palm grip._

*What's your sensitivity?*
_Medium, probably more on the lower side._

*What's your maximum budget?*
_Under 60€ would be preferable (i'll be buying from amazon.it)_

*Do you want additional buttons?*
_All i need is two buttons on the left side of the mouse._

*What games do you play?*
_FPSs mostly but also MOBAs and RTSs._

*Do you mind about prediction?*
_Yes, i don't want any kind of angle snapping, prediction or acceleration._

*Other relevant information:*
_I use to clean my mouse with alcohol many times per week, so i'd prefer no weird coating that can get sticky or peels away._


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> _Fingertip grip, but i was thinking to go with palm grip._
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> _Medium, probably more on the lower side._
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> _Under 60€ would be preferable (i'll be buying from amazon.it)_
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> _All i need is two buttons on the left side of the mouse._
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> _FPSs mostly but also MOBAs and RTSs._
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> _Yes, i don't want any kind of angle snapping, prediction or acceleration._
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> _I use to clean my mouse with alcohol many times per week, so i'd prefer no weird coating that can get sticky or peels away._


Anyone? Please?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> Anyone? Please?


KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. There have been some recent quality control issues as well.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> Anyone? Please?


The problem here is that this describes a whole bunch of mice.
Basically anything with side buttons, a decent sensor and under 60€, so like 20 different mice.
Since you don't seem to be quite sure about your grip style I'd recommend a ambidextrous mouse that will allow for most grips to be somewhat comfortable.
Aurora probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Or FK1/2 if you want to spend a little more on a newer sensor.

Maybe tell us how big your hands are and if you'd prefer a small or big mouse and maybe (if you can say) if you prefer ambidextrous or ergonomical to narrow it down a little more.

But yeah, I'd probably say Aurora.
It's a good bit cheaper than other compareable mice, it's really light, which is always a plus, has a good sensor with good implementation and a shape that'll allow almost any grip style.


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse seems to be the best mouse (especially for FPS games) on the market currently. But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. There have been some recent quality control issues as well.


The FinalMouse seems nice but sadly it's not available in my country.
I was looking at the Roccat Kone Pure Optical at first and i'd like it if there was no coating.
What's the difference between Optical, Military and Naval? Do the last two have any coating?

Thanks!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I don't know about the coatings, but the military has the best sensor.

I reviewed that mouse, along with others here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd


----------



## rogerthat1945

There is only one mouse for all.

If you can afford it...

The Razer Ouroboros.


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't know about the coatings, but the military has the best sensor.
> 
> I reviewed that mouse, along with others here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd


Thanks i'll check your videos! I wanted to know, (even though i'm not really into Razer) what do you think about Deathadder 2013?
I'm looking for a claw grip/palm grip mouse
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rogerthat1945*
> 
> There is only one mouse for all.
> 
> If you can afford it...
> 
> The Razer Ouroboros.


Overpriced here (or just too expensive) 130€


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> Thanks i'll check your videos! I wanted to know, (even though i'm not really into Razer) what do you think about Deathadder 2013?


I can't stand the DA shape, and I heard the 2013 version's sensor is ****.


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I can't stand the DA shape, and I heard the 2013 version's sensor is ****.


I've heard the opposite from pretty much almost everyone who owns it








I'll go with the Roccat then. So you say Military has the best sensor? I thought the pure optical had the same one, am i wrong?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list/0_50


----------



## LDV617

Earlier this week I bit the bullet on a Zowie Fk1.

I love it so far, really nice feel in my hand. There are a few other mice I may try out in the future (specifically MS IE & Ninox Aurora -- Naos looks cool but too expensive to buy for fun)

The small ambi shape of the Fk1 is SO much more comfortable and easy to control compared to the bulky Rival (which I loved for a year+). As soon as I hopped in a game I was landing shots that I don't think I would've with the Rival (sounds stupid, but the mouse is just easier for me to control / move)

EDIT:

Has anyone ordered one of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-WMO-Steelseries-MOD-100-NEW-5-Colors-/121179666270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61d44f5bbb


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list/0_50


This answers my question, thank you!
But i've just noticed that the Corsair M45 has the same sensor (PMW3310H) and is cheaper than Military (54€ vs 80€).
Any advices? I'm sorry if i'm being annoying with all these questions


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> This answers my question, thank you!
> But i've just noticed that the Corsair M45 has the same sensor (PMW3310H) and is cheaper than Military (54€ vs 80€).
> Any advices? I'm sorry if i'm being annoying with all these questions


Mice with the same sensor can vary greatly. Things like firmware have a huge impact.

rival, avior7k, and fk1 are all 3310 sensor mice that were inferior to the KPM when I tested them.


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Mice with the same sensor can vary greatly. Things like firmware have a huge impact.
> 
> rival, avior7k, and fk1 are all 3310 sensor mice that were inferior to the KPM when I tested them.


Seems like i'm going with the KPM then when i'm able to.
Last question: Is the scrollwheel hard to press (mouse3)?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> rival, avior7k, and fk1 are all 3310 sensor mice that were inferior to the KPM when I tested them.


I always knew in the end Roccat would blitz the field, despite how much propaganda is used by their competitors to boost their own crappy products







.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> Seems like i'm going with the KPM then when i'm able to.
> Last question: Is the scrollwheel hard to press (mouse3)?


I don't remember, check my review: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Also if you can wait a week, I'm getting my replacement FinalMouse which if it doesn't have the problem my other one did, it will likely be the best performing sensor released to date.


----------



## glue33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't remember, check my review: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> Also if you can wait a week, I'm getting my replacement FinalMouse which if it doesn't have the problem my other one did, it will likely be the best performing sensor released to date.


Sadly they aren't selling it in my country







It seems very good from their website though!


----------



## PsYcHo29388

1. What's your grip style?
*Fingertip Grip*
2. What's your sensitivity?
*1450DPI + 1000 Polling rate*
3. What's your maximum budget?
*$50-$75*
4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Maybe one or two, mostly want minimal buttons though.*
5. What games do you play?
*Counter Strike, GTA, Toxikk, Mostly FPS games.*
6. Do you mind about prediction?
*From the looks of it no, I do not want this.*

Other relevant information:
The mousewheel on my G400 seems to be going bad, was thinking about replacing it with the G402 but I'm not sure. Wanted to check here first to gather some info.


----------



## Aventadoor

^Evga X5 Optical


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> Seems like i'm going with the KPM then when i'm able to.
> Last question: Is the scrollwheel hard to press (mouse3)?


It's not really hard to press, but you need a bit more force than for the main buttons.


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> ^Evga X5 Optical


Looks nice but it also looks pretty small and the button placement looks like something I will end up pressing all the time.

Ehh, I really can't say for sure. It's definitely something I want to consider.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> Looks nice but it also looks pretty small and the button placement looks like something I will end up pressing all the time.
> 
> Ehh, I really can't say for sure. It's definitely something I want to consider.


Watch hardwarecanucks review.
Also, u said u were using fingertip... So length should be fine, u dont need a butt.
I think its wider then the FK1 where u actually grip the mice, so thats good.


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> Looks nice but it also looks pretty small and the button placement looks like something I will end up pressing all the time.
> 
> Ehh, I really can't say for sure. It's definitely something I want to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch hardwarecanucks review.
> Also, u said u were using fingertip... So length should be fine, u dont need a butt.
> I think its wider then the FK1 where u actually grip the mice, so thats good.
Click to expand...

Yeah I did watch their review and it's very convincing. $50 is also an amazing price point.

In your opinion, how would it compare to a G502 Prometheus Core? That's the only other mouse I have in mind and I even went to try it out at best buy today, but I'm not sure I want to pay $85 for it (Best Buy is OP as hell).

Also, I cannot seem to find a single place that has this mouse in stock.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Why the 502?


----------



## sbsolarski

Peeps,

My sensei is breaking down - is rival a good pickup? or perhaps sensei raw?


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Why the 502?


I keep hearing good things about it, and from holding one it seems very similar to my G400, which I'm very fond of in terms of the design.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sbsolarski*
> 
> Peeps,
> 
> My sensei is breaking down - is rival a good pickup? or perhaps sensei raw?


Rival was not good sensor or shape wise for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> I keep hearing good things about it, and from holding one it seems very similar to my G400, which I'm very fond of in terms of the design.


People WAY overhyped that mouse with some really deceptive marketing.

It's extremely heavy and the sensor isn't nearly as accurate as people were making it out to be.

The KPM is a better mouse in every way IMO.


----------



## LDV617

I also didn't like the Rival's shape. I found myself much more consistent with a smaller, ambi mouse


----------



## m00n

Hi guys new to the forum and would like some help choosing a good mouse.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600-1800

3. What's your maximum budget?
80$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons would be nice not necessarily compulsory.

5. What games do you play?
A bit of everything; fps, mmo, moba etc.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer a mouse without prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
I currently have a Logitech G100s and my only two complaints are the cord and both my main buttons have this obnoxiously loud squeak that I can hear with my headphones on even, but other than that I do like the mouse.
I prefer a light weight mouse.
Zowie mice are not available to purchase in my country and shipping cost to my country will be the nearly the same price as the mouse itself and as such Zowie's range is not an option for me.
At the moment I'm considering the Razer Abyssus 2014, CM Storm Alcor and Corsair M45 although I do not really like those rubber coated surfaces; they get sticky after a month. The CM Storm Spawn would be perfect for me, but its no longer available in my country


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> I keep hearing good things about it, and from holding one it seems very similar to my G400, which I'm very fond of in terms of the design.
> 
> 
> 
> People WAY overhyped that mouse with some really deceptive marketing.
> 
> It's extremely heavy and the sensor isn't nearly as accurate as people were making it out to be.
> 
> The KPM is a better mouse in every way IMO.
Click to expand...

The heavy part sounds really opinionated, and I highly doubt the G502 is all that bad with as many positive reviews it gets across various websites.

Either way, the Torq X5 Optical has me curious, so I went ahead and purchased it. Later down the road I'll buy a G502 and see if it's any better or if it's worse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

There are a lot of really ignorant people making fluff reviews all over the place. Which is the main reason I started buying and testing mice myself.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m00n*
> 
> Hi guys new to the forum and would like some help choosing a good mouse.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1600-1800
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 80$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons would be nice not necessarily compulsory.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> A bit of everything; fps, mmo, moba etc.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prefer a mouse without prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I currently have a Logitech G100s and my only two complaints are the cord and both my main buttons have this obnoxiously loud squeak that I can hear with my headphones on even, but other than that I do like the mouse.
> I prefer a light weight mouse.
> Zowie mice are not available to purchase in my country and shipping cost to my country will be the nearly the same price as the mouse itself and as such Zowie's range is not an option for me.
> At the moment I'm considering the Razer Abyssus 2014, CM Storm Alcor and Corsair M45 although I do not really like those rubber coated surfaces; they get sticky after a month. The CM Storm Spawn would be perfect for me, but its no longer available in my country


Corsair M45 doesn't have a rubber coating, It also has the best sensor out of the mice you mentioned. With the weights removed it weighs ~93g.
I'll give an honorable mention to the Logitech G302 and the Ninox Aurora. Since it seems like both might work for you. Keep in mind the Aurora has had some issues with quality assurance and controll.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Corsair M45 doesn't have a rubber coating, It also has the best sensor out of the mice you mentioned. With the weights removed it weighs ~93g.


I'm willing to buy an M45 to give it a go, mainly because I currently don't own any Corsair input devices







.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Corsair M45 doesn't have a rubber coating, It also has the best sensor out of the mice you mentioned. With the weights removed it weighs ~93g.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm willing to buy an M45 to give it a go, mainly because I currently don't own any Corsair input devices
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

It's a nice mouse, very solidly built, the side buttons are way out of the way (which I like).
As a warning the scroll wheel on my M45 broke (it still scrolls but doesn't click) after about 750-ish hours in CS:GO and a lot of other use in general. The warranty doesn't cover the scroll wheel since it's from "normal use".

If you get it here are some tips:
1. You can get replacement mouse feet from Corsair the ones for their M65 should fit perfectly.
2. Go into the software right away I saw that some of the clicks had a macro set for a delay before clicks (I have no idea why).
3. If the DPI reverts to default press DPI up then down or vice versa, The best way to prevent the DPI going back to default is to leave the software window open.
4. Sometimes the only way to get your custom DPI back (usually after boot up) is to open the software up then move the DPI setting off what you want, then back on. For instance I want 800 DPI, I move it to 750 DPI apply, then move it back to 800 DPI and apply.
5. If you want a light mouse remove the weights, and also the screws that hold the weights in. The screws weigh a lot.


----------



## Maximillion

How's the comfort/grip on the M45? I've heard it has sharp edges (which from pics it looks like it does). I'm also interested in it since it's one of the few 3310s I've yet to try.


----------



## m00n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> It's a nice mouse, very solidly built, the side buttons are way out of the way (which I like).
> As a warning the scroll wheel on my M45 broke (it still scrolls but doesn't click) after about 750-ish hours in CS:GO and a lot of other use in general. The warranty doesn't cover the scroll wheel since it's from "normal use".
> 
> If you get it here are some tips:
> 1. You can get replacement mouse feet from Corsair the ones for their M65 should fit perfectly.
> 2. Go into the software right away I saw that some of the clicks had a macro set for a delay before clicks (I have no idea why).
> 3. If the DPI reverts to default press DPI up then down or vice versa, The best way to prevent the DPI going back to default is to leave the software window open.
> 4. Sometimes the only way to get your custom DPI back (usually after boot up) is to open the software up then move the DPI setting off what you want, then back on. For instance I want 800 DPI, I move it to 750 DPI apply, then move it back to 800 DPI and apply.
> 5. If you want a light mouse remove the weights, and also the screws that hold the weights in. The screws weigh a lot.


Thanks a lot for the info







I noticed the M45 has a braided cable how is the cable in your opinion? Is it OK or does it cause some drag?


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> How's the comfort/grip on the M45? I've heard it has sharp edges (which from pics it looks like it does). I'm also interested in it since it's one of the few 3310s I've yet to try.


I haven't felt it dig into my hand. The edges are smooth, and I never had an edge dig into my hand since my hand was only in contact with the flat areas.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m00n*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> It's a nice mouse, very solidly built, the side buttons are way out of the way (which I like).
> As a warning the scroll wheel on my M45 broke (it still scrolls but doesn't click) after about 750-ish hours in CS:GO and a lot of other use in general. The warranty doesn't cover the scroll wheel since it's from "normal use".
> 
> If you get it here are some tips:
> 1. You can get replacement mouse feet from Corsair the ones for their M65 should fit perfectly.
> 2. Go into the software right away I saw that some of the clicks had a macro set for a delay before clicks (I have no idea why).
> 3. If the DPI reverts to default press DPI up then down or vice versa, The best way to prevent the DPI going back to default is to leave the software window open.
> 4. Sometimes the only way to get your custom DPI back (usually after boot up) is to open the software up then move the DPI setting off what you want, then back on. For instance I want 800 DPI, I move it to 750 DPI apply, then move it back to 800 DPI and apply.
> 5. If you want a light mouse remove the weights, and also the screws that hold the weights in. The screws weigh a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for the info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed the M45 has a braided cable how is the cable in your opinion? Is it OK or does it cause some drag?
Click to expand...

No problem. The cable was fine. I felt like the braided material was very good, yes it was heavier than some rubber cables but it didn't have the same drag as many rubber cables. After all the time I used the M45 for the cable is just barely starting to fray now. I wouldn't say the cable was the best but I also wouldn't say it was the worst.

IMO best cable: Razer DA 3G
IMO worst cable: WMO 1.1a


----------



## m00n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I haven't felt it dig into my hand. The edges are smooth, and I never had an edge dig into my hand since my hand was only in contact with the flat areas.
> No problem. The cable was fine. I felt like the braided material was very good, yes it was heavier than some rubber cables but it didn't have the same drag as many rubber cables. After all the time I used the M45 for the cable is just barely starting to fray now. I wouldn't say the cable was the best but I also wouldn't say it was the worst.
> 
> IMO best cable: Razer DA 3G
> IMO worst cable: WMO 1.1a


Thanks once again, the M45 doesn't sound bad at all and has everything that I'm looking for. I came across the Corsair Sabre Optical and it has an interesting shape, wanted to know if you would recommend that mouse as well? I checked out the Logitech G302 but the shape seems a bit awkward to me, mainly the back part of it. I'm aware of the Aurora as well but, sadly shipping would cost too much like the Zowie mice.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m00n*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I haven't felt it dig into my hand. The edges are smooth, and I never had an edge dig into my hand since my hand was only in contact with the flat areas.
> No problem. The cable was fine. I felt like the braided material was very good, yes it was heavier than some rubber cables but it didn't have the same drag as many rubber cables. After all the time I used the M45 for the cable is just barely starting to fray now. I wouldn't say the cable was the best but I also wouldn't say it was the worst.
> 
> IMO best cable: Razer DA 3G
> IMO worst cable: WMO 1.1a
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks once again, the M45 doesn't sound bad at all and has everything that I'm looking for. I came across the Corsair Sabre Optical and it has an interesting shape, wanted to know if you would recommend that mouse as well? I checked out the Logitech G302 but the shape seems a bit awkward to me, mainly the back part of it. I'm aware of the Aurora as well but, sadly shipping would cost too much like the Zowie mice.
Click to expand...

No problem again. I cant say much on the Corsair Sabre Optical since I haven't used it or even seen one in person yet. But I can say that the Sabre is heavier than the M45, it's overall mouse performance should be about the same as the M45, and I believe it has a rubber coating.

Oh yeah, there's also the new EVGA X3 and X5 Optical those could be good as well for you. They are really new so there isn't too much information about them, but they are really well priced and have the right stuff inside of them.


----------



## super1

which one is better ?

Logitech G300 $53 or Cooler Master Recon $58

they are other brands with lower price like a4tech and zalman,
but I think they don't compare with logitech or CM.

my grip style is fingertip, I play all the kind of video games and I have a normal size hand

btw I can get the mouse from my country only.

thanks


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super1*
> 
> which one is better ?
> 
> Logitech G300 $53 or Cooler Master Recon $58
> 
> they are other brands with lower price like a4tech and zalman,
> but I think they don't compare with logitech or CM.
> 
> my grip style is fingertip, I play all the kind of video games and I have a normal size hand
> 
> btw I can get the mouse from my country only.
> 
> thanks


I have the g300(not the g300s) and it is a horrible mouse for me because the LOD is so high. probably around 3-4 mm...
If you can buy logitech mice, i'd recommend a g302 because you use a fingertip grip. if you play at a medium to high sensitivity, then the g100s would also be good because of the 2.9 m/s malfunction speed. i used the g100s @ 71 cm/360 turn and it often malfunctioned. it hasn't at 55-60 cm/360 in my experience. here is a review of the g302 by takasta:


----------



## Iceycold

Hey, decided to post this here since it was stickied.

*What's your grip style?*
Finger tip grip.

*What's your sensitivity?*
800-1600 DPI.

*What's your maximum budget?*
$70.

I'm looking for something very simplistic in design like the Nascita, with just two buttons on the left.

I have a fingertip grip and play at 800-1600 dpi.


----------



## Pakeo

Hi, my G9x lasted four years before I got the double-click problem, and I plan on keeping it, as long as I can fix it. I accidentally unbent then broke the spring after one too many reinstallation attempts, and am now waiting for replacements. I really should learn to solder, so I can just install some Japanese Omrons on instead, but until I finally make that commitment, I need another mouse. I've been searching for a while now, and could use some pointing in the right direction.


*What's your grip style?*
Palm, although I currently have the G9x, and that's for claw and fingertip. I didn't know anything about grips when I bought it, but I know I'm definitely a palm grip now. I use some kind of palm/fingertip/claw hybrid when gaming with it.

*What's your sensitivity?*
I used to use 3200, but I just recently switched to 1600 and it feels good, so let's use that as a range. The G9x is a laser mouse. I've heard optical is better. I've had optical mice before, just not a gaming grade optical mouse. I just want something that tracks well, is accurate, and precise.

*What's your maximum budget?*
Don't really have one. Let's go with ~$60. If a really compelling case can be made, I'm willing to go significantly higher.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, I'd like at least the back/forward thumb buttons, aside from the standard three. This doesn't include DPI buttons.

*What games do you play?*
I play FPSs, MOBAs, RTSs, a little bit of everything, I guess you could say.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
After learning about the difference it makes, yes, I do. I even have a registry hack to get rid of the inherent acceleration in Windows.

*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

Ergonomics is important to me. The G9x used to cause my wrist to cramp after extended sessions. I improvised a wrist rest until I could find one. This doesn't seem to occur anymore though. I tried the G500, but I couldn't get over the extremely high arch. It felt so unnatural to me. I use the "comfort" grip on my G9x. I like the rubberized texture. I think I'd be OK with an ambidextrous design, if it comes down to that.

I've not had an issue with LOD, because I haven't required a lot of space at the sensitivity I used to use, but I would prefer a low one or one that's adjustable, just in case.

Please, *no wireless*. I don't even understand why they exist for gaming, and for the money I'm spending, the LEDs better be customizable or something lower than blue on the visible spectrum, *no blue LEDs*. I can't _*stand*_ them. I'll just put electrical tape over them, (which is why I didn't just call it a day and get the G502). Even if I can disable the LEDs, I'll bet they still turn on when you boot. I can't avoid them at work, but I don't want to deal with taping over any more at home, if entirely possible. I primarily use colors for profile indication, cause how else would I be able to tell what I'm set to?

Longevity is also important. I might use the G9x solely for computing and the new one for gaming, cause I _*love*_ Logitech's free moving scroll wheel and can't imagine surfing the web without it. Otherwise, this will be a backup mouse. I was originally going to get the CM Storm Recon, but then decided against getting a budget mouse for a secondary, because I read about too many longevity issues in reviews for all the ones I researched. The others were Anker and the Red Dragon Mammoth.

A tilt wheel would be nice, but not mandatory. I've played few games that can utilize it, and I can't even get it to work in Windows anymore.

I don't have big hands (medium glove size) so something sized for large hands probably won't be good for me. One thing that has annoyed me about the G9x is I can't completely palm it, my fingertips extend past the buttons. u_u I know, it just wasn't made for palming, but I love mine anyway. If nothing fits my needs, then I will concede and get a claw or fingertip grip style. It's probably not the end of the world, since I've managed with the G9x all these years.


----------



## super1

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> I have the g300(not the g300s) and it is a horrible mouse for me because the LOD is so high. probably around 3-4 mm...
> If you can buy logitech mice, i'd recommend a g302 because you use a fingertip grip. if you play at a medium to high sensitivity, then the g100s would also be good because of the 2.9 m/s malfunction speed. i used the g100s @ 71 cm/360 turn and it often malfunctioned. it hasn't at 55-60 cm/360 in my experience. here is a review of the g302 by takasta:


there is no g302 in my country
so I'll get Cooler Master Recon.

Thank you


----------



## Hefner

So after only 2 years my zowie evo EC2 is having tracking issues so it's time for a new mouse. I didn't really like how hard you need to push the buttons and the fact that it broke after such a short time makes me shy away from Zowie.

My favourite mouse that sadly broke after many years of service is the WMO 1.1. Is there anything similar to it? Zowie kinda failed in comparison imo.

Any recommendations?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> So after only 2 years my zowie evo EC2 is having tracking issues so it's time for a new mouse. I didn't really like how hard you need to push the buttons and the fact that it broke after such a short time makes me shy away from Zowie.
> 
> My favourite mouse that sadly broke after many years of service is the WMO 1.1. Is there anything similar to it? Zowie kinda failed in comparison imo.
> 
> Any recommendations?


Na, I'd get another WMO.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Na, I'd get another WMO.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-WMO-Steelseries-MOD-100-NEW-5-Colors/121179666270?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29170%26meid%3Dbc3bb945415845cc8eea17d6becc6b0e%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D7%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111006864661

Is this the one to get?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I think takasta's are legit, but I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## LDV617

OK worth a shot I guess. I have an fk1 but I wanna see the hype lol.


----------



## sotha

*What's your grip style?*
Palm, I currently have the Razer Lachesis.
I believe it's too big for me at 129 x 71 x 40 mm. I would preffer smaller, i am thinking than maybe up to 122 mm max for lenght
It also tends to jump expecially when I am trying to make snipe shots in WoT









*What's your sensitivity?*
2000DPI...but not very sure of optimal one

*What's your maximum budget?*
Not important, any suggestion is welcomed on both fronts









*Do you want additional buttons?*
I would like to have a maximum of 4 buttons.

*What games do you play?*
I play WoT, FPS, RPG

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I would preferr without prediction

*Other relevant information:*
Did some research, I would go for optical to see how it goes.
Radon Opto, Roccat looks cool and comfortable too, but too many buttons I do not see me use any time soon those buttons

Thank you,


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> OK worth a shot I guess. I have an fk1 but I wanna see the hype lol.


I ordered two! I hope they will be legit









I might also grab an FK2, because of the 3310 sensor and different huano switches which are supposedly lighter.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> I ordered two! I hope they will be legit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might also grab an FK2, because of the 3310 sensor and different huano switches which are supposedly lighter.


I love the shape / size of the fk1, I'm performing way better with that than with my old Rival. Please let me know how Takasta's WMOs are. I will probably end up ordering one, but would like confirmation that they aren't 'replicas'.


----------



## LDV617

I found another seller for WMOs who is in US and a little cheaper than Takasta. I bought one from Takasta then eBay suggested the other vendor









I requested a cancel and figured why not try it;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-USB-and-PS2-Compatible-OEM-mouse/271341461899?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D36530408889146afae0d9720f12f0590%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D121179666270

I will probably end up getting a yellow one from Takasta in the future







but for testing purposes this one will come sooner.


----------



## k3yb04rdwarr10r

*What's your grip style?*

Claw.

*What's your sensitivity?*

39 cm / 360.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Preferably mouse four and five but other factors are more important.

*What games do you play?*

FPS.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

No.

*Other relevant information:*

I need something pretty small. Something the size of the Zowie FK2 or Razer Abyssus.

Additionally, I prefer low LOD, low weight (~90g or less) and omron switches or similar.


----------



## fusix

*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip

*What's your sensitivity?*

40cm/360

*What's your maximum budget?*

Doesn't matter

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Two buttons on the left side of the mouse would be nice.

*What games do you play?*

Mostly fast-paced FPS (Shootmania, UT, quake, CS series, a bit of battlefield)

*Do you mind about prediction?*

I hate prediction...

*Other relevant information:*

I currently own a Razer Imperator 4g. I like weight, size and the feel of it (lovely LOD btw), however I can't seem to make it feel right (acceleration, prediction, mouse pointer drifting.) I also don't like the stiff braided cord.
Mousepad: Steelseries QcK+
Medium to large sized hands.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fusix*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 40cm/360
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Doesn't matter
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Two buttons on the left side of the mouse would be nice.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Mostly fast-paced FPS (Shootmania, UT, quake, CS series, a bit of battlefield)
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I hate prediction...
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I currently own a Razer Imperator 4g. I like weight, size and the feel of it (lovely LOD btw), however I can't seem to make it feel right (acceleration, prediction, mouse pointer drifting.) I also don't like the stiff braided cord.
> Mousepad: Steelseries QcK+
> Medium to large sized hands.


DeathAdder or EC1-A


----------



## fusix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> DeathAdder or EC1-A


EC1-A was on my shortlist so I'll go for that one. Thx!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.


----------



## LDV617

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-USB-and-PS2-Compatible-OEM-mouse/271341461899?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D36530408889146afae0d9720f12f0590%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D121179666270&rmvSB=true

Just got this in the mail this morning. I get insane input lag in game when I use it. Is that because the mouse is 125hz (assumed based on what I've heard) and my screen is 144hz?

Or is there another reason? Is it a fake?

I will order one from Takasta next to see if I get the same issues.

edit: Attempted to OC mouse, still 125hz. Guess I'll try takasta's


----------



## Melan

Is it worth even considering buying a G300S?
58-60cm/360 sens, FPS etc. I don't hit 3m/s unless I screw up big time (don't watch my back etc).

Mice in my buy list:
G302 (or 303)
G402
G300S


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



My FK1 finally shat it self
 4 days later it died. *sob* *sob* *sob*


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Why all logitech mice? In my experience logitech makes good build quality but not very ideal sensors. They're kind of a fluff company. They focus on marketing and doing a lot of things decently to try and please everyone, but the most important things (sensor accuracy/latency/responsiveness) are subpar.


----------



## Melan

Why would I even need a "very ideal" sensor? I don't have any issues killing people with "subpar" one.
I would buy FK1 again if not this obvious button lag (or maybe it's just insane stiffness, idk) compared to my 11 year old MX500. It's not so apparent in FPS but in osu! is pretty obvious.


----------



## LDV617

I keep hearing about this FK1 button lag, but I don't feel anything strange. In fact I prefer the tactile feel of the FK1 over the stiff clicks of the Rival.

I haven't had any problem playing Osu! with it either.


----------



## darkfirebg

*What's your grip style?*
I'm playing with hybrid claw/fingertip grip.

*What's your sensitivity?*
I use 400/800 dpi

*What's your maximum budget?*
Not important.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.

*What games do you play?*
CS GO

*Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction, acceleration, etc..

*Other relevant information:*
I prefer small and light mouse.
I currently have Razer DeathAdder 3g, Zowie EC1 and Bloody v5, and i keep playing with the bloody just because it's smaller and it's easier for me to make quick and precise movements. The smaller - the better, for me at least. Just don't propose Zowie FK1/2 because the buttons are too stiff for my liking.

Thank you.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I'm playing with hybrid claw/fingertip grip.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> I use 400/800 dpi
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Not important.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS GO
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No prediction, acceleration, etc..
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I prefer small and light mouse.
> I currently have Razer DeathAdder 3g, Zowie EC1 and Bloody v5, and i keep playing with the bloody just because it's smaller and it's easier for me to make quick and precise movements. The smaller - the better, for me at least. Just don't propose Zowie FK1/2 because the buttons are too stiff for my liking.
> 
> Thank you.


Ninox Aurora, Finalmouse 2015, EVGA X5, Logitech G302.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Why all logitech mice? In my experience logitech makes good build quality but not very ideal sensors. They're kind of a fluff company. They focus on marketing and doing a lot of things decently to try and please everyone, but the most important things (sensor accuracy/latency/responsiveness) are subpar.


Still spreading F.U.D.?


----------



## Amaterasu

*What's your grip style?*
Claw grip

*What's your sensitivity?*
While I played with 1.1 / 1.1A - I was using:

400 DPI (or 450 depends on which version)
5/11 Windows sensitivity
3.0 in-game (CS:GO)

*What's your maximum budget?*
~60 euros

*Do you want additional buttons?*
I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.

*What games do you play?*
CS:GO

*Do you mind about prediction?*
No acceleration of course and no prediction...

*Other relevant information:*
I currently have 1.1A and the reason why I want to upgrade is that I can't overclock it to 500 HZ (everything worked flawlessly but since I reinstalled Windows I can't overclock it...)

I'm thinking about Zowie FK1 - SteelSeries Kana v2

Which one is better from these two and why? If there is alternative, advice me!

Thank you.


----------



## Melan

How does WMO behave at speeds higher than 1.6m/s? Does it just go into neg. accel or flop like cheap dell mouse?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> How does WMO behave at speeds higher than 1.6m/s? Does it just go into neg. accel or flop like cheap dell mouse?


It gets neg accel. I can't remember it ever doing anything like looking down/up or stop moving.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amaterasu*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw grip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> While I played with 1.1 / 1.1A - I was using:
> 
> 400 DPI (or 450 depends on which version)
> 5/11 Windows sensitivity
> 3.0 in-game (CS:GO)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> ~60 euros
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No acceleration of course and no prediction...
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I currently have 1.1A and the reason why I want to upgrade is that I can't overclock it to 500 HZ (everything worked flawlessly but since I reinstalled Windows I can't overclock it...)
> 
> I'm thinking about Zowie FK1 - SteelSeries Kana v2
> 
> Which one is better from these two and why? If there is alternative, advice me!
> 
> Thank you.


I doubt you'll find a suitable replacement. The MLT04 is still significantly better than anything I've tested in the past 10 years.

3.0 on Amazon for $50. The only 1.1's I see listed there are really expensive or used.

The FinalMouse is probably better than the MLT04 *if you get a good one*. But the mice vary so much that the chances are maybe around 50% or less.

The other best sensors I've tested were the KPM and Aurora, but they're not that close. I wouldn't use em.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I'm playing with hybrid claw/fingertip grip.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> I use 400/800 dpi
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Not important.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> CS GO
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No prediction, acceleration, etc..
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I prefer small and light mouse.
> I currently have Razer DeathAdder 3g, Zowie EC1 and Bloody v5, and i keep playing with the bloody just because it's smaller and it's easier for me to make quick and precise movements. The smaller - the better, for me at least. Just don't propose Zowie FK1/2 because the buttons are too stiff for my liking.
> 
> Thank you.


KPM and Aurora are small mice, and also some of the better sensors I've tested.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Still spreading F.U.D.?


If you think that's FUD, you have no idea what you're doing when it comes to mice.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If you think that's FUD, you have no idea what you're doing when it comes to mice.


I do think its FUD to blanket claim pretty much every other mouse as useless because of your Donahue feelings. You're still trying to shove the MLT04 down people's throats by scaring them off other good mice. There's even that ESR thread where you try and claim the 3366 sucks because of the smoothness in a mouse tester graph. Everyone scoffed at you for a reason, even people who know that the smoothness of the graph isn't an indicator of tracking quality. Logitech unresponsive? Tests are the opposite, and even their employees will let you know there's no artificial processing in their new mice (none 33366, under 2K for AM010). I think you're the one who's out of touch.

Perhaps you and Roach can write a useless mouse guide with a free Kleenex box because it's gonna be based on you guys's feelings.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Perhaps you and Roach can write a useless mouse guide with a free Kleenex box because it's gonna be based on you guys's feelings.


Whoa shots shooted.

However I do have to say that Max is extremely helpful and knowledgeable in the context of competitive FPS (CS particularly). I think almost any mid-top tier CS player would agree with his mouse suggestions. And although I disagree with him on some ergo/feel preferences, what he says in regards to consistency and accuracy is good info.

Summary; If you are not intending on using your mouse for competitive FPS, you probably don't need to listen to everything Max says









However if you do intend to compete at the highest level you possibly can, you should take what he says into consideration







(although realistically you should take everyone's advice into consideration to a degree)


----------



## woll3

Well, the problem is that mlt04 isnt a universal answer to the worlds problems.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Well, the problem is that mlt04 isnt a universal answer to the worlds problems.


I'm the first to back that, which is why I'm on this forum looking for a new mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I do think its FUD to blanket claim pretty much every other mouse as useless because of your Donahue feelings.


Then you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> scaring them off other good mice.


Yeah? Like the 502 you have in your avatar? Ha.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> There's even that ESR thread where you try and claim the 3366 sucks because of the smoothness in a mouse tester graph.


Ehh, not quite.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Everyone scoffed at you for a reason, even people who know that the smoothness of the graph isn't an indicator of tracking quality.


First of all, you're getting mixed up here, which shows you don't understand the material you're trying to use against me.

Secondly, despite supposedly being a "competitive gaming community", there are a lot of really clueless people on ESR who have sucked in all the deceptive mouse marketing from the past 10 years.

And I wouldn't be half surprised if there were astroturf accounts on there from people working for gaming hardware companies who were mad about the truth of their products getting out. I know I've personally seen that before.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> even their employees will let you know there's no artificial processing in their new mice (none 33366, under 2K for AM010).


Sure, lets believe people who market 12 thousand cpi as if it's something that more than 0.1% of mouse users need and improves mouse performance.


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah? Like the 502 you have in your avatar? Ha.


ehh, actually it's 402









and has anyone have a picture of KPM comparison the size with the other mouse, thank all


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invalid My Arse*
> 
> ehh, actually it's 402
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and has anyone have a picture of KPM comparison the size with the other mouse, thank all


ec2: http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5f/5f50cb13_2014-12-0223.24.03.png

Oh, I thought the 402 didn't have the sniper button. Guess I was mixing it up with something else.


----------



## Hefner

So I received my WMO from takasta on ebay and here are some things I noticed:

-The mouse isn't entirely level. This could be due to bad placement of the sliders, I'm not sure. Since I'm using a soft mouse pad it isn't a big deal, but whilst using a hard mouse pad it is quite bothersome.

-The right switch feels different than the left switch. The left switch feels great, however, the right switch required a bit more force to click and feel like a different switch, to be honest. It also sounds different.

-The sensor does feel like the the WMO sensor which is great.

Overall I am pretty happy with this mouse and it feels much better than my Zowie EC2 eVo, however, the right switch does bother me a bit.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Then you don't know what you're talking about.


Because I'm not clutching to a 10 year old mouse I don't know what I'm talking about. These arguing points are so insightful!
Quote:


> Yeah? Like the 502 you have in your avatar? Ha.


G402. Already showing the idiocy this early on.








Quote:


> Ehh, not quite.
> First of all, you're getting mixed up here, which shows you don't understand the material you're trying to use against me.


Sure I do. The jitters on the curve are not a de-facto showing for tracking quality. Neither are the dots being as close to the line a true proof of showing tracking quality. Your praising of the KPM shows just that if you tracked in in MouseTester - it shows neither of those two traits. And even you were willing to throw those "facts" in the name of how good the KPM implementation is.

Secondly, if either were true, then the G402 at high speeds is the most accurate. A Logitech mouse I'm sure that stirs your **** because it doesn't have the MLT04.

They scoffed at your ramblings for a reason.
Quote:


> Secondly, despite supposedly being a "competitive gaming community", there are a lot of really clueless people on ESR who have sucked in all the deceptive mouse marketing from the past 10 years.


They disagree (rather, need more proof than feelz) and they are in the wrong.








Quote:


> And I wouldn't be half surprised if there were astroturf accounts on there from people working for gaming hardware companies who were mad about the truth of their products getting out. I know I've personally seen that before.


The paranoia is real. A world without the MLT04. Mouse companies are getting accounts to cross slander... you might need those Kleenex boxes on second thought.
Quote:


> Sure, lets believe people who market 12 thousand cpi as if it's something that more than 0.1% of mouse users need and improves mouse performance.


They've been making input devices since before most of the posters on this forum were born. 12K DPI was simply a showcase for how strong the sensor is. Put it into perspective: 12K DPI, no smoothing, all native steps.

And look guy, I know you'll be buried in a casket with an MLT04 in your breast pocket. I get that you love the mouse. But you're slamming ALL other mice into the **** tier for no reason other than "it doesn't FEEL like the MLT04!" Conjuring up nonsense just to try and support your statement. That in itself is toxic. Maybe someday, you'll approach it better. Until then, spill your feels in the diary.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

You might want to watch this video if you think "12k dpi shows how strong a sensor is": 




You're repeating things I said myself and pretending they're the opposite of what I said.... And the KPM IS tighter than others like the FK1.
KPM: http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d5/900x900px-LL-d5594bf9_400cpi_500hz6oufr.png
FK1: http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b1/900x900px-LL-b1caf2fe_RcaGlkM.png

And you're confusing two different threads.

All native steps my ass. Just look at Ino's graphs to see each step behaves completely different. God you are so clueless, and yet so confident and belligerent in your ignorance.

All you're doing is regurgitating deceptive marketing that you've soaked up.

What game do you play and at what level?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You might want to watch this video if you think "12k dpi shows how strong a sensor is":


Seen the video already.

You're simply looking at numbers and saying no. Native 12K is unheard of for a sensor even in the midst of current competition. That is strength in the sensor. Much like how higher PCS is another one, lack of smoothing is another, many native steps is another. There's more things that amount to a mouse sensor and the 3366 has many strengths to it.
Quote:


> You're repeating things I said myself and pretending they're the opposite of what I said.... And the KPM IS tighter than others like the FK1.
> KPM: http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d5/900x900px-LL-d5594bf9_400cpi_500hz6oufr.png
> FK1: http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b1/900x900px-LL-b1caf2fe_RcaGlkM.png
> 
> And you're confusing two different threads.


I never mentioned the FK1. And no, not confused. I'm using both in my stance against yourself. You tried to claim Mousetester graphs as proof of tracking quality and it's not so. You also tried to claim the KPM as a superior sensor with no defined standard. Both threads amounted to less than 40 keks because there was no solid proof other than feelings. And in the case of the graphs, they are NOT representative of overall quality despite you trying to make it so.

If it were true, the accelerometer is the most accurate things that's ever come to mice. Just look at the graphs when it kicks in. No deviations at all.
Quote:


> All native steps my ass. Just look at Ino's graphs to see each step behaves completely different. God you are so clueless, and yet so confident and belligerent in your ignorance.


Hmm are they native or not? Let's have a look:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> You can call me Chris. And yes, native 50 DPI steps from 200-12000.


I'm guessing you'll chalk it up to marketing at work? Even though CPate has shown trust and detailed us on other mice Logitech have produced that have non-native steps and smoothing?
Quote:


> All you're doing is regurgitating deceptive marketing that you've soaked up.


I called it.









Quote:


> What game do you play and at what level?


You have asked this question as if it strengthens your argument. I have played many, still do, at a competitive level. I'm not a 1.6 snob like yourself. Much like mice, I like to see what's out there and enjoy it.


----------



## Gods Tower

What's your grip style?
Palm but I claw my index and middle finger

What's your sensitivity?
34cm/360

What's your maximum budget?
$100

Do you want additional buttons?
dont care

What games do you play?
csgo, tf2, quake, LoL

Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction

Other relevant information:
no/low click latency, something around 100g, low lod, something that works on a puretrak talent


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> You're simply looking at numbers and saying no. Native 12K is unheard of for a sensor even in the midst of current competition. That is strength in the sensor.


No. He literally says in the video that higher CPI is detrimental to performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Much like how higher PCS is another one, lack of smoothing is another, many native steps is another. There's more things that amount to a mouse sensor and the 3366 has many strengths to it.


LOL... my god you're like a recorded voice box of marketing slogans...

The 502 is neither smoothing-free nor 50step native. Again, look at Ino's graphs.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I never mentioned the FK1. You also tried to claim the KPM as a superior sensor with no defined standard.


*** are you talking about.... standard?? All we can say is "x mouse performs better or worse than these other ones". And since there is yet to be a mouse that has as good or better tracking than the MLT04, and as good or better malfunction speed, then that's going to be the most common baseline.

The FK1 is a 3310 sensor mouse just like the KPM. I had said in my review that it performed worse than the KPM, and the mousetester graphs show the FK1 has the same disparity as the FM on the light pad, but to a greater degree.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> You tried to claim Mousetester graphs as proof of tracking quality and it's not so. Both threads amounted to less than 40 keks because there was no solid proof other than feelings.


False. The moustester graphs showed a clear difference between the tracking of the FM on my light and dark colored pads. Mousetester shows hard data of tracking performance so it is absolutely solid proof.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> And in the case of the graphs, they are NOT representative of overall quality despite you trying to make it so. If it were true, the accelerometer is the most accurate things that's ever come to mice. Just look at the graphs when it kicks in. No deviations at all.


False. You clearly misunderstood the thread.

Direct quote:
_"This isn't perfect, as the graph doesn't really show how the mouse feels ingame (IE: the deviations on the FM graphs were evidence of a different feeling/problem vs what was felt with the other mice). But it does give us some evidence of flaws we can feel while playing."_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Even though CPate has shown trust and detailed us on other mice Logitech have produced that have non-native steps and smoothing?


"Detailed us"? *** does that mean? He didn't prove s***. They made some BS marketing claims. There is a small possibility he didn't understand what people were talking about when they said "smoothing". But most likely they just lied when they said all the steps were native and smoothing free.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> You have asked this question as if it strengthens your argument. I have played many, still do, at a competitive level. I'm not a 1.6 snob like yourself. Much like mice, I like to see what's out there and enjoy it.


Of course it does. It absof***inglutely does.

I would never expect anyone who doesn't play a competitive FPS game at a high level to be able to properly analyze the performance of a gaming mouse.

It's a f**king waste of time arguing with a clueless casual.

Buy/use whatever you want. My only goal is to get someone to release a useable mouse because there are many things I don't like about the 3.0. And participating on these forums seems to be my best chance at that. Seeing as manufacturers seem perfectly content with marketing garbage mice if no one calls them out on it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gods Tower*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm but I claw my index and middle finger
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 34cm/360
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> dont care
> 
> What games do you play?
> csgo, tf2, quake, LoL
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no prediction
> 
> Other relevant information:
> no/low click latency, something around 100g, low lod, something that works on a puretrak talent


MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.


----------



## Gods Tower

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.





Getting a legit mlto4 requires too much stuffing around and I'd rather not gamble on the FM lottery

KPM seems like a good choice, shape and size seem fine to me, I know that it has software problems but should that affect me if I just use it to set all the dpi options to 400, then uninstall it?

I cant seem to find any mousetester results for the KPM tho


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gods Tower*
> 
> Getting a legit mlto4 requires too much stuffing around and I'd rather not gamble on the FM lottery
> 
> KPM seems like a good choice, shape and size seem fine to me, I know that it has software problems but should that affect me if I just use it to set all the dpi options to 400, then uninstall it?
> 
> I cant seem to find any mousetester results for the KPM tho


Legit: http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-B75-00113-Intellimouse-Explorer-3-0/dp/B000GOUE7O

Or just don't install the software. I posted KPM results in this thread a couple posts ago. They're in the KPM thread too if you click on "recent images" in that thread it brings you right to it.


----------



## Gods Tower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Legit: http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-B75-00113-Intellimouse-Explorer-3-0/dp/B000GOUE7O
> 
> Or just don't install the software. I posted KPM results in this thread a couple posts ago. They're in the KPM thread too if you click on "recent images" in that thread it brings you right to it.


if the default polling rate is 1000hz then ill give it go and see if the dpi up/down buttons get in the way or not


----------



## lunapt

are there any small mice like zowie fk with dpi steps?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No. He literally says in the video that higher CPI is detrimental to performance.
> LOL... my god you're like a recorded voice box of marketing slogans...


I can already tell you don't have any good points to refute on. Geeze, another one of these "but feelings!" rebuttals.








Quote:


> The 502 is neither smoothing-free nor 50step native. Again, look at Ino's graphs.


They are native steps. Do I believe you, MLT04 Street Preacher, or the man who's at the company producing it that has an honest track record?
Quote:


> *** are you talking about.... standard??


Something more concrete than "feelings".








Quote:


> And since there is yet to be a mouse that has as good or better tracking than the MLT04, and as good or better malfunction speed, then that's going to be the most common baseline.


Sorry, feelings don't have any bearings as proof. Prove the MLT04 is the best sensor out there.

Oh wait, you can't!
Quote:


> The FK1 is a 3310 sensor mouse just like the KPM. I had said in my review that it performed worse than the KPM, and the mousetester graphs show the FK1 has the same disparity as the FM on the light pad, but to a greater degree.
> 
> False. The moustester graphs showed a clear difference between the tracking of the FM on my light and dark colored pads. Mousetester shows hard data of tracking performance so it is absolutely solid proof.


The graphs are NOT solid proof of tracking quality. If it were, then the G402's accelerometer has the best tracking with zero deviation during accel/gyro use.

Heck, take it here, you even say so:
Quote:


> Direct quote:
> _"This isn't perfect, as the graph doesn't really show how the mouse feels ingame"_


You've already shut your own argument down. Can't use the graphs as a test of overall quality.
Quote:


> "Detailed us"? *** does that mean? He didn't prove s***. They made some BS marketing claims.


Dohohoh, so baseless.
Quote:


> There is a small possibility he didn't understand what people were talking about when they said "smoothing". But most likely they just lied when they said all the steps were native and smoothing free.


He knows what "smoothing" is and already addressed the G00s & G400s "smoothing" as that: a granularity filter to combat jitter.
Quote:


> Of course it does. It absof***inglutely does.
> 
> I would never expect anyone who doesn't play a competitive FPS game at a high level to be able to properly analyze the performance of a gaming mouse.
> 
> It's a f**king waste of time arguing with a clueless casual.


Rather than supporting his stance on the MLT04 with facts he'd rather try and slander the character of the opposite person because he can't prove it otherwise! You should run for office in your state. It might work on the locals.

Secondly, I have played at a high enough level. It must bother you. Because one plays at a high level, it doesn't equate to knowledge. Heck, look at yourself. Proof right there.
Quote:


> Buy/use whatever you want. My only goal is to get someone to release a useable mouse because there are many things I don't like about the 3.0. And participating on these forums seems to be my best chance at that. Seeing as manufacturers seem perfectly content with marketing garbage mice if no one calls them out on it.


I do buy/use whatever I want. It's your carpet bombing of other mice that's toxic to whomever reads the forums. You and roach (another jackass) need your own sub-forums somewhere in the deleted section.

I'm more than ready to continue in PM. I'll save the thread from more clutter and your public display of amusing MLT04 rhetoric. Simply quote and PM.


----------



## Melan

I'm still kinda waiting for that G300S opinion... And yes I know about that sensor position.


----------



## sirbardo

Hey guys! If you can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a CS:GO "semi-pro" competing in minor leagues and trying to "go pro" very hard since a few months, I've been playing CS for 7 years and I am a Global Elite in MM, if it matters. I am looking for some suggestions.

What's your grip style?
OK this is where the first problem arises. I have a "natural" grip, and a grip I use.

The natural grip I have, the one I grip most mice when I just use them normally, is kind of a claw grip with a little weird finger placement:

the thumb grips firmly on the left part, using a lot of force and causing some strain during longer session, also it actuates the left side buttons obviously.
the index finger actuates the LMB and MWHEEL, and it is arched.
the middle finger actuates the RMB, and it is arched.
the ring and pinky are bent and put a lot of force on the right side of the mouse, which I don't see many people do: the main difference being that most people keep their fingers straight on the side, while mine are bent.

The grip I use that I kind of "forced" myself to use is this:

it's a 3 fingers on top grip that I learnt to use with my G400S, and I really really like it.

the thumb grips the mouse on the left.
index on lmb, actuates lmb, arched.
middle on mwheel, actuates mwheel, arched.
ring on rmb, actuates rmb, arched.
pinky on the right side.

PICTURES:


http://imgur.com/a

 FIRST IMAGE IS NATURAL GRIP, OTHER THREE ARE THE OTHER ONE

What's your sensitivity?

2.8*400 dpi in CS:GO, generally a medium sensitivity

What's your maximum budget?
N/A

Do you want additional buttons?

only left side buttons.

What games do you play?

EXCLUSIVELY CSGO

Do you mind about prediction?

I don't want any if possible!

Other relevant information:

I'd rather have a mouse that has a grip similar to G400S, which I really like. I have a DA Chroma and a Zowie FK1, and I don't like either because the DA just doesn't fit neither of my grips, and I don't like how wide the right side is, and the Zowie FK1 is too low so I doesn't quite fill the back of my hand and I don't have enough control, and being ambidextrous I can't really grip it properly because: my natural grip doesn't have enough room since the fingers are bent so they end up in a really awkward position, and my "new" grip just doesn't work because the right lid of the g400s is totally inexistent so the pinky doesn't grip the mouse well enough.

I'd like to have a mouse that has a sensor as good as the FK1 (3310, right?) but with a grip similar to the g400s. I considered the g402 but I'm not too sure about the grip and the AM010 sensor, and I also considered the g502 but I am really turned off by how heavy it is, and also I'm not sure I'd like the grip. I thought about the EC2-A but I guess I'd have similar problems the the DA grip and bulkyness, overall I find the G400S to be an almost perfect shape for me, but I don't really like the sensor at all. Thanks in advance!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lunapt*
> 
> are there any small mice like zowie fk with dpi steps?


Aurora? KPM?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirbardo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys! If you can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated!
> I'm a CS:GO "semi-pro" competing in minor leagues and trying to "go pro" very hard since a few months, I've been playing CS for 7 years and I am a Global Elite in MM, if it matters. I am looking for some suggestions.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> OK this is where the first problem arises. I have a "natural" grip, and a grip I use.
> 
> The natural grip I have, the one I grip most mice when I just use them normally, is kind of a claw grip with a little weird finger placement:
> 
> the thumb grips firmly on the left part, using a lot of force and causing some strain during longer session, also it actuates the left side buttons obviously.
> the index finger actuates the LMB and MWHEEL, and it is arched.
> the middle finger actuates the RMB, and it is arched.
> the ring and pinky are bent and put a lot of force on the right side of the mouse, which I don't see many people do: the main difference being that most people keep their fingers straight on the side, while mine are bent.
> 
> The grip I use that I kind of "forced" myself to use is this:
> 
> it's a 3 fingers on top grip that I learnt to use with my G400S, and I really really like it.
> 
> the thumb grips the mouse on the left.
> index on lmb, actuates lmb, arched.
> middle on mwheel, actuates mwheel, arched.
> ring on rmb, actuates rmb, arched.
> pinky on the right side.
> 
> PICTURES:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> FIRST IMAGE IS NATURAL GRIP, OTHER THREE ARE THE OTHER ONE
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 2.8*400 dpi in CS:GO, generally a medium sensitivity
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> N/A
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> only left side buttons.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> EXCLUSIVELY CSGO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I don't want any if possible!
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I'd rather have a mouse that has a grip similar to G400S, which I really like. I have a DA Chroma and a Zowie FK1, and I don't like either because the DA just doesn't fit neither of my grips, and I don't like how wide the right side is, and the Zowie FK1 is too low so I doesn't quite fill the back of my hand and I don't have enough control, and being ambidextrous I can't really grip it properly because: my natural grip doesn't have enough room since the fingers are bent so they end up in a really awkward position, and my "new" grip just doesn't work because the right lid of the g400s is totally inexistent so the pinky doesn't grip the mouse well enough.
> 
> I'd like to have a mouse that has a sensor as good as the FK1 (3310, right?) but with a grip similar to the g400s. I considered the g402 but I'm not too sure about the grip and the AM010 sensor, and I also considered the g502 but I am really turned off by how heavy it is, and also I'm not sure I'd like the grip. I thought about the EC2-A but I guess I'd have similar problems the the DA grip and bulkyness, overall I find the G400S to be an almost perfect shape for me, but I don't really like the sensor at all. Thanks in advance!


FK1 sensor isn't good at all in my experience.

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

Depending on the size of your hands you might be ok with the Kone Pure Military or Aurora.

The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). And it has a shape similar to the g400.


----------



## lunapt

SIRBADO, you're describing the fingertip grip. I have the Kone and it is DENSE even though it is lighter. it puts more strain on the wrist.

And I should have mentioned the ability to change in 50 dpi steps, otherwise the Aurora is no different for me


----------



## aBanana144p

What's your grip style?
Palm.
What's your sensitivity?
6/11 in windows, 8 in cs go, idk what DPI my mouse is, it was an old hand me down logitec wireless mouse that was 9+ years old, probably 1000 dpi.
What's your maximum budget?
60 would be preferable, around 80 is that max that I can go.
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, maybe at least 2, for some in game binds,
What games do you play?
Primarily shooters- Quake, COD, BF, CS:GO, and I might occasionally play LoL and Dota .
Do you mind about prediction?
No.
Other relevant information:
I have small hands lol, so a smaller mouse might fit me better. It can be large, I can adapt, but just putting that out there.

Thanks.


----------



## leothelion

What's your grip style? It differs, so hybrid claw/palm, but mostly semi-palm if that makes any sense.

What's your sensitivity? 6/11 windows, 400 DPI, 2.7 In-game (CSGO), so medium/high.

What's your maximum budget? Whatever really.

Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons.

What games do you play? CSGO, SC2, Sid Meier's Civ (Like it matters).

Do you mind about prediction? Not really, but prefer a sensor without it.

Other relevant information: Rubberized coating is a must. My hands get sweaty if I use glossy mices. Not too much LOD.

I'm looking for a medium sized mouse, something bigger than Kana v2 and FK1, but mostly on the width (if only Sensei had a optical sensor..) or something like the EC2. Why I don't like the EC2 is because I find the buttons a bit stiff. I prefer omrons. Also don't like heavy mice.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? It differs, so hybrid claw/palm, but mostly semi-palm if that makes any sense.
> 
> What's your sensitivity? 6/11 windows, 400 DPI, 2.7 In-game (CSGO), so medium/high.
> 
> What's your maximum budget? Whatever really.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons.
> 
> What games do you play? CSGO, SC2, Sid Meier's Civ (Like it matters).
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? Not really, but prefer a sensor without it.
> 
> Other relevant information: Rubberized coating is a must. My hands get sweaty if I use glossy mices. Not too much LOD.
> 
> I'm looking for a medium sized mouse, something bigger than Kana v2 and FK1, but mostly on the width (if only Sensei had a optical sensor..) or something like the EC2. Why I don't like the EC2 is because I find the buttons a bit stiff. I prefer omrons. Also don't like heavy mice.


You're out of luck mate. I'm in the same boat. My journey so far: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM's around the same size as the FK1. And so is the Aurora.

The FinalMouse is slightly wider but the sensor performance from mouse to mouse is all over the place.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aBanana144p*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm.
> What's your sensitivity?
> *6/11 in windows, 8 in cs go*, idk what DPI my mouse is, it was an old hand me down logitec wireless mouse that was 9+ years old, *probably 1000 dpi*.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 60 would be preferable, around 80 is that max that I can go.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, maybe at least 2, for some in game binds,
> What games do you play?
> Primarily shooters- Quake, COD, BF, CS:GO, and I might occasionally play LoL and Dota .
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No.
> Other relevant information:
> I have small hands lol, so a smaller mouse might fit me better. It can be large, I can adapt, but just putting that out there.
> 
> Thanks.


5cm/360 @ 1000cpi
6.5cm/360 @ 800cpi


----------



## Waleh

What's your grip style? I'm looking for something that replaces my MX300, I think that's called a palm grip?

What's your sensitivity? I'm using a 400 DPI mouse

What's your maximum budget? $40

Do you want additional buttons? One button that goes back

What games do you play? BF4, FC4, Diablo, some CS:GO...

Other relevant information: I essentially want an updated MX300!!


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Does it worth to get the sensei, i only use that one but i kinda like the shape of it, i already have fk1 but it too thin for me
or xai? Lol


----------



## aBanana144p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You're out of luck mate. I'm in the same boat. My journey so far: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM's around the same size as the FK1. And so is the Aurora.
> 
> The FinalMouse is slightly wider but the sensor performance from mouse to mouse is all over the place.
> 5cm/360 @ 1000cpi
> 6.5cm/360 @ 800cpi


Maybe that's why I'm only Gold Nova 1, lol. I just got used to high sensitivity when I first started playing FPS.

So do you have a mouse suggestion for me?


----------



## exitone

^ both above look at the
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aBanana144p*
> 
> Maybe that's why I'm only Gold Nova 1, lol. I just got used to high sensitivity when I first started playing FPS.
> 
> So do you have a mouse suggestion for me?


where do you live?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aBanana144p*
> 
> Maybe that's why I'm only Gold Nova 1, lol. I just got used to high sensitivity when I first started playing FPS.
> 
> So do you have a mouse suggestion for me?


Yeah, it definitely is.

The biggest improvement you can make to your game right now is to lower your sensitivity to a reasonable level.

The highest sens I've ever heard of a pro CS player using is 4.2 @ 400cpi. Which is 24cm/360. http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/

Most use around 42cm/360.

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.


----------



## leothelion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You're out of luck mate. I'm in the same boat. My journey so far: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM's around the same size as the FK1. And so is the Aurora.
> 
> The FinalMouse is slightly wider but the sensor performance from mouse to mouse is all over the place.
> 5cm/360 @ 1000cpi
> 6.5cm/360 @ 800cpi


Well I fully agree on the 3.0, 1.1 and the WMO. It's actually kind of sad that those are to this day the best gaming mice after all these years and only the 3.0 is easy to find. You'd think a brand would be able to outdo microsoft in 14 years time or so although they set the bar pretty damn high.

I've tried most ZOWIE and SteelSeries mice, the Razer Deathadder and some Roccat mouse but haven't liked any of them that much except the Sensei, but unfortunately it has a terrible laser sensor and SteelSeries still haven't got their thumb out of their ass to make one with an optical Sensor. It would be perfect for me if they did.

That FinalMouse does look interesting although what you said about the sensor is worrysome considering I will have to order it from US to Sweden. What are the exact dimensions?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, I'm doing what I can to try and get someone to make a valid replacement for the MLT04.

FM: 74g (without cord), 123.46mm(L)*70.20mm(W)*42.37mm(H)

I don't know if it would be worth it for you to risk the FM from Sweden. I dunno how Amazon return shipping is for you, but I get free shipping each way if there's a defect with the mouse.

My FM review might be up later today on my youtube.


----------



## aBanana144p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, it definitely is.
> 
> The biggest improvement you can make to your game right now is to lower your sensitivity to a reasonable level.
> 
> The highest sens I've ever heard of a pro CS player using is 4.2 @ 400cpi. Which is 24cm/360. http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/
> 
> Most use around 42cm/360.
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse is probably the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.


Ah, I looked at the KONE Pure Military and I quite like it, I will probably get it. Thank you


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aBanana144p*
> 
> Ah, I looked at the KONE Pure Military and I quite like it, I will probably get it. Thank you


I got one and I'm really happy with it.


----------



## iNewbcake

*What's your grip style?*
Mostly Palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
High
*What's your maximum budget?*
Don't care
*Do you want additional buttons?*
The only additional buttons I need are the 2 on the left side.
*What games do you play?*
Most of my time is spend not playing games, but when I do its generally fps, rts, mmo.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes, prefer not to have it.
*Other relevant information:*
I've been using a g9x for the majority of my life, until that broke down. I loved the shape of that mouse and it was in my opinion the one that suited my hand most.
The scroll wheel on it was very nice as well, I liked being able to switch from a more free scroll to a step-wise one.
After it broke down I bought a Feenix Nascita (2012). And It has been a horrible experience, its the worst mouse I've ever used, apperantly the 2014 model is better. But I don't really want to risk it again. The only thing I do like about this mouse is the shape. its sort of similar to the g9x and it suits me well.

It has to work on Linux, if some features are missing that's ok. but it has to fulfill it's main function. I tend to like heavier mice as well.
Wireless is also a no-go.


----------



## Aventadoor

Steelseries Rival should work good.


----------



## zhuoran09

*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw but am comfortable with palm as well
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Very used to 1.8k
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
No particular budget
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't use additional buttons but it's ok if the mouse has some
*5. What games do you play?*
Dota, LoL*
6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Would prefer not to have it*
7. Other relevant information:*
Have small hands, about 18cm long. Previously owned a Deathadder 2g which I enjoyed though it was rather strenuous on the hand.
Wireless is definitely a no-go.
Would prefer a lighter mouse with low LOD.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## super1

hello

I already asked here before and I decided to get Cooler Master Recon
but now I have two other option, so which one is better ?

Cooler Master Recon Mouse $48
Cooler Master Havoc Gaming Mouse $53
ROCCAT SAVU Mid-Size Hybrid Gaming Mouse $56

my grip style is claw/fingertip, I play all kind of video games and I have a normal size hand.

thanks.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> hello
> 
> I already asked here before and I decided to get Cooler Master Recon
> but now I have two other option, so which one is better ?
> 
> Cooler Master Recon Mouse $48
> Cooler Master Havoc Gaming Mouse $53
> ROCCAT SAVU Mid-Size Hybrid Gaming Mouse $56
> 
> my grip style is claw/fingertip, I play all kind of video games and I have a normal size hand.
> 
> thanks.


Savu, and it's not even close.


----------



## Doombuggie41

What's your grip style?

I have a claw grip

What's your sensitivity?

I like between 5000 and 6000 dpi

What's your maximum budget?

$100

Do you want additional buttons?

yes, at least two for forward/back

What games do you play?

All sorts of games from FPS (battlefield, CS:GO) to League, to RTS (Civ, AoE and now Homeworld <3)

Do you mind about prediction?

Would like the option to turn it off, but if its there then it is not a deal breaker
Other relevant information:

I slam my mouse a lot. Its an unfortunate habit that I have. In the last year I have killed the sensor on a Death Adder, the primary click on a Naos 5000, and a secondary click on Sensai. I would also like a surface which does not result in a lot of sweating. I sweat a lot in my hands (I have hyperhydrosis) and also have a 100mm fan blowing on my hand.


----------



## ripe6dungeon

hi

im looking for a new mouse that fits my hand well and has a good sensor and hopefully you guys can give me some suggestions.

a picture of my hand with credit card on top, i hope this gives you an idea of the shape of my hand



What's your grip style?
fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
hmm medium medium/high would be my guess
What's your maximum budget?
about 100 euro
Do you want additional buttons?
no but few extra i don't really mind as long as long as they don't get in my way
What games do you play?
anything fps but primarily cs go
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:
don't suggest a mouse without a cord
i use a cloth mouse pad and intend continue doing so


----------



## kackbratze

What's your grip style?
claw/palm
What's your sensitivity?
800DPI / 1.25 in game
What's your maximum budget?
as little as possible as much as need
Do you want additional buttons?
would be nice
What games do you play?
cs go
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:

It seems like i need a really flat mouse. I have tried >15 mice and every single one of them was causing cramps in my hand.

it should be as lightweight as possible as well.

I have bought the ninox aurora which is fitting my hand the best so far but it is of such a poor build quality that I think I'll need to replace it soon.

I have small hands and still want to be able to grab the whole mouse.


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> claw/palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800DPI / 1.25 in game
> What's your maximum budget?
> as little as possible as much as need
> Do you want additional buttons?
> would be nice
> What games do you play?
> cs go
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yes
> Other relevant information:
> 
> It seems like i need a really flat mouse. I have tried >15 mice and every single one of them was causing cramps in my hand.
> 
> it should be as lightweight as possible as well.
> 
> I have bought the ninox aurora which is fitting my hand the best so far but it is of such a poor build quality that I think I'll need to replace it soon.
> 
> I have small hands and still want to be able to grab the whole mouse.





try KPM


----------



## super1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Savu, and it's not even close.


Thanks for your reply

but what do you mean by "it's not even close"
do you mean it's much better than the other two ?

sorry english is not my native language.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply
> 
> but what do you mean by "it's not even close"
> do you mean it's much better than the other two ?
> 
> sorry english is not my native language.


Yes. In my opinion, of course.


----------



## aBanana144p

I just got my KPM and I love it!







Shape is perfect for my hand, nice mouse feet as well. The scroll wheel feels amazing.


----------



## super1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Yes. In my opinion, of course.


can you tell me the reason you chose Savu,
I mean why it's better than Recon and Havoc in your opinion.
thank you.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super1*
> 
> can you tell me the reason you chose Savu,
> I mean why it's better than Recon and Havoc in your opinion.
> thank you.


Better sensor than the Havoc, and the weight of the Recon is laughable.

Bear in mind the Savu is the only one of the three I've ever actually used but it's one of the more highly regarded 3090 mice.


----------



## Xicu

Hi guys, I need your suggestion.

One friend is traveling to USA and I'm planning to order a new mouse send it to him there so he can bring it to me ( In my country it's really hard to import things ) .

I'm currently using a Roccat Savu and I was thinking in buying Roccat KPM or Zowie EC2-A

The problem it's that the KPM has problems changing your DPI randomly, and the Zowie it can have a faulty scroll wheel.

Since I will not have the option to change/return it I want to go to the safest option.

I'll also appreciate any other suggestion.

Thank you.


----------



## super1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Better sensor than the Havoc, and the weight of the Recon is laughable.
> 
> Bear in mind the Savu is the only one of the three I've ever actually used but it's one of the more highly regarded 3090 mice.


Thanks
But I saw some websites that reviewed both mouse Recon & Savu and they rate Recon higher than Savu.
So I'm still not sure which one should I get xD
Thanks again and sorry for disturbing.


----------



## LDV617

The Recon sucks. I tried one before I got my SS rival. Terrible drivers, bad DPI steps, no customization, weird smoothing/movement effect and bad shape for me.

Just my opinion though


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys, I need your suggestion.
> 
> One friend is traveling to USA and I'm planning to order a new mouse send it to him there so he can bring it to me ( In my country it's really hard to import things ) .
> 
> I'm currently using a Roccat Savu and I was thinking in buying Roccat KPM or Zowie EC2-A
> 
> The problem it's that the KPM has problems changing your DPI randomly, and the Zowie it can have a faulty scroll wheel.
> 
> Since I will not have the option to change/return it I want to go to the safest option.
> 
> I'll also appreciate any other suggestion.
> 
> Thank you.


There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary quite a bit from other's. Here's my experience:

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse could be the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.

The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it.

Gaming mice and non-FPS games:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL

Thanks
But I saw some websites that reviewed both mouse Recon & Savu and they rate Recon higher than Savu.
So I'm still not sure which one should I get xD
Thanks again and sorry for disturbing.[/QUOTE]
Most mice reviews I've seen on big websites have been complete fluff written by people who have no idea how to evaluate a mouse.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Most mice reviews I've seen on big websites have been complete fluff written by people who have no idea how to evaluate a mouse.


Pros:

Expensive
Lots of Customization
'Build Quality'
Name brand
Paying me for my review

Cons:

You haven't bought one yet

(example 'big website' mouse review)


----------



## super1

Okay
Then I'll get ROCCAT Savu.
Thanks a lot Maximillion, LDV617, and MaximilianKohler


----------



## thatgold

What's your grip style?

Fingertip / Palm

What's your sensitivity?

1800, never above 1800 dpi either, anything 400-1800 dpi is fine.

What's your maximum budget?

$100 AUD, can go higher if needed but would prefer lower

Do you want additional buttons?

Just the two side buttons for forward and back navigation online + video game coms

What games do you play?

CS:GO, WoW,

Do you mind about prediction?

Don't want prediction, ideally want a perfect sensor mouse.

Other relevant information:

- I have large hands (L = 20-21cm, W = 13cm at widest part with thumb) I would like a large comfortable mouse, have a g502 at the moment and that is too small gives me hand cramps.
- Would like a small LOD
- Nothing too lightweight preferably


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip / Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 1800, never above 1800 dpi either, anything 400-1800 dpi is fine.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $100 AUD, can go higher if needed but would prefer lower
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Just the two side buttons for forward and back navigation online + video game coms
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> CS:GO, WoW,
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Don't want prediction, ideally want a perfect sensor mouse.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> - I have large hands (L = 20-21cm, W = 13cm at widest part with thumb) I would like a large comfortable mouse, have a g502 at the moment and that is too small gives me hand cramps.
> - Would like a small LOD
> - Nothing too lightweight preferably


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4300_50#post_23625523

My hand size is close to yours and I had the same problem with the 502 & a number of other mice.


----------



## Skpe

What's your grip style?
*Palm/Claw - bit of a mix between the two*
What's your sensitivity?
*Medium (30-40cm for a 360 [1800 dpi])
*
What's your maximum budget?
*£70*]
What games do you play?
*Fast Twitch FPS: UT&UT4, Quake, etc.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes*
Other relevant information:
*I've been using a DA2k13 for a long time and I really want to change- I am no longer that comfortable with how I play. I'd love to try something more responsive, similar weight preference (nothing too heavy? though it's not a deal breaker). But basically want the best sensor with a decent shape- whatever the mouse or brand is. I have been recommended G402/G502, but I don't know which has the better sensor and the G502 is meant to be quite a heavy mouse. If it's a lot better, I guess I should get used to that weight. Or, if there are any other top tier sensor mice from other brands then I am happy to accept.
The FM2k15 is not available to me in the UK.*


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skpe*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm/Claw - bit of a mix between the two*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Medium (30-40cm for a 360 [1800 dpi])
> *
> What's your maximum budget?
> *£70*]
> What games do you play?
> *Fast Twitch FPS: UT&UT4, Quake, etc.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Yes*
> Other relevant information:
> *I've been using a DA2k13 for a long time and I really want to change- I am no longer that comfortable with how I play. I'd love to try something more responsive, similar weight preference (nothing too heavy? though it's not a deal breaker). But basically want the best sensor with a decent shape- whatever the mouse or brand is. I have been recommended G402/G502, but I don't know which has the better sensor and the G502 is meant to be quite a heavy mouse. If it's a lot better, I guess I should get used to that weight. Or, if there are any other top tier sensor mice from other brands then I am happy to accept.
> The FM2k15 is not available to me in the UK.*


See above post.

g402/502 are definitely not better than the DA2013 as far as sensor performance. If you have poor DA2013 sensor performance make sure you have the latest firmware, and uninstall the drivers/synapse software.


----------



## Kirin96

What's your grip style? Pure fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 800-1800
What's your maximum budget? 100 euro
Do you want additional buttons? at least 2 side buttons
What games do you play? CS:GO, MOBA
Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
Other relevant information: I like a *short*, low mouse but quite wide. Now I'm using a G9, something with similar shape should be good.


----------



## Skpe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> See above post.
> 
> g402/502 are definitely not better than the DA2013 as far as sensor performance. If you have poor DA2013 sensor performance make sure you have the latest firmware, and uninstall the drivers/synapse software.


I don't find it a poor sensor and I think it's up to date, but I definitely think somethings slow about it. Maybe the feet drag, buttons clunky or the sensor lags, I don't know (at least compared to sensei raw I sometimes use). I wouldn't want an older MLT04 and have to overclock hz (I go to LAN's and can't do that), plus the DPI is maybe a shade too low. The FinalMouse isn't available, so I'm not sure what you'd suggest if the G402/502 aren't good replacements either?

Thanks btw


----------



## MaximilianKohler

That's it. There's no ideal mouse at the moment, which is why I'm stuck with my 3.0.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skpe*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm/Claw - bit of a mix between the two*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Medium (30-40cm for a 360 [1800 dpi])
> *
> What's your maximum budget?
> *£70*]
> What games do you play?
> *Fast Twitch FPS: UT&UT4, Quake, etc.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Yes*
> Other relevant information:
> *I've been using a DA2k13 for a long time and I really want to change- I am no longer that comfortable with how I play. I'd love to try something more responsive, similar weight preference (nothing too heavy? though it's not a deal breaker). But basically want the best sensor with a decent shape- whatever the mouse or brand is. I have been recommended G402/G502, but I don't know which has the better sensor and the G502 is meant to be quite a heavy mouse. If it's a lot better, I guess I should get used to that weight. Or, if there are any other top tier sensor mice from other brands then I am happy to accept.
> The FM2k15 is not available to me in the UK.*


Try the G402. Pretty good over here sensor wise and it should fit your grip. If you don't like it you can always return it.







Also might be on sale at Amazon right now.

G502 might not bode as well due to the change in weight. G402 is closer to Deathadder weight. If you don't mind something heavier then by all means...

Palm slash claw might also go with Zowie's EC series and Roccat PKM. I'm assuming you're used to those ergonomic types so I used those for suggestions.


----------



## kbros

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 400-2000 for gaming/ atleast 2000 for desktop
What's your maximum budget? 50 USD
Do you want additional buttons? nope
What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4
Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
Other relevant information: I'm using a CM Xornet but I really want something I can palm grip. I really like the support for the ring/pinky fingers.


----------



## LegoFarmer

What's your grip style?
My grip style is strange. The bottom of my palm will touch the butt of the mouse, and then it is all claw grip from there.
What's your sensitivity?
I am a low-sens guy. If I multiply my DPI by my in-game sens for CS:GO, it is about 1,000 or less.
What's your maximum budget?
I don't really want to spend more than $60-70 on a new mouse
Do you want additional buttons?
Additional buttons aren't a priority. I only need left and right click plus the wheel as well as two side buttons
What games do you play?
I play counterstrike and battlefield
Do you mind about prediction?
I like to avoid prediction at all costs
Other relevant information:
I have a G502 and don't really fancy the shape. Bought an EC1-A and got a defective wheel and had to do other things inside of it to resolve other problems it had. I've read about the Rival and Kone Pure Military and they seem good. I prefer rubber cables, but swapping mouse cables isn't a huge task. I normally tweak the mouse with the drivers, save them to onboard, then uninstall the drivers right after. Don't like mice over 100g. Ambi vs Ergo is up in the air. No true preference for me.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> My grip style is strange. The bottom of my palm will touch the butt of the mouse, and then it is all claw grip from there.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I am a low-sens guy. If I multiply my DPI by my in-game sens for CS:GO, it is about 1,000 or less.
> What's your maximum budget?
> I don't really want to spend more than $60-70 on a new mouse
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Additional buttons aren't a priority. I only need left and right click plus the wheel as well as two side buttons
> What games do you play?
> I play counterstrike and battlefield
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I like to avoid prediction at all costs
> Other relevant information:
> I have a G502 and don't really fancy the shape. Bought an EC1-A and got a defective wheel and had to do other things inside of it to resolve other problems it had. I've read about the Rival and Kone Pure Military and they seem good. I prefer rubber cables, but swapping mouse cables isn't a huge task. I normally tweak the mouse with the drivers, save them to onboard, then uninstall the drivers right after. Don't like mice over 100g. Ambi vs Ergo is up in the air. No true preference for me.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kbros*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 400-2000 for gaming/ atleast 2000 for desktop
> What's your maximum budget? 50 USD
> Do you want additional buttons? nope
> What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
> Other relevant information: I'm using a CM Xornet but I really want something I can palm grip. I really like the support for the ring/pinky fingers.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4300_50#post_23625523


----------



## wes1099

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI, cant even do a 360 across my steelseries QCK+
What's your maximum budget? $70 USD
Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are a must
What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4, Quake Live
Do you mind about prediction? 0 Prediction is a must
Other relevant information: Mouse must be Deathadder 2013 size or bigger, preferably not ambidextrous, preferably either driverless or onboard memory. I have been looking at the EC1-A, but the number of people reporting defects is scaring me away from zowie.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI, cant even do a 360 across my steelseries QCK+
> What's your maximum budget? $70 USD
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons are a must
> What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4, Quake Live
> Do you mind about prediction? 0 Prediction is a must
> Other relevant information: Mouse must be Deathadder 2013 size or bigger, preferably not ambidextrous, preferably either driverless or onboard memory. I have been looking at the EC1-A, but the number of people reporting defects is scaring me away from zowie.


SS Rival, RoG Gladius, Asus Strix Claw, Roccat XTD Optical.

You might just wanna start off with the EC1-A from a retailer with a good return policy. I have a EC2-A and have experienced no problems with it. Also, I have to mention the FinalMouse as a good option even though it's on the smaller side.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> SS Rival, RoG Gladius, Asus Strix Claw, Roccat XTD Optical.
> 
> You might just wanna start off with the EC1-A from a retailer with a good return policy. I have a EC2-A and have experienced no problems with it. Also, I have to mention the FinalMouse as a good option even though it's on the smaller side.


Finalmouse is the biggest rip off though for $70, considering OP actually has a budget, its a bad choice. Asus Strix Claw has a legendary shape but has no grip whatsoever when I tried it at a store. Other choices are good.

Zowie is ok if you don't care if your scroll wheel gets buggy or gets stuck in the shell


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> SS Rival, RoG Gladius, Asus Strix Claw, Roccat XTD Optical.
> 
> You might just wanna start off with the EC1-A from a retailer with a good return policy. I have a EC2-A and have experienced no problems with it. Also, I have to mention the FinalMouse as a good option even though it's on the smaller side.


I heard that the buttons on the ROG gladius rattle/wobble. Do you know if that is fixable?


----------



## Skpe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's it. There's no ideal mouse at the moment, which is why I'm stuck with my 3.0.










Surely something? Actually enjoying the sensei raw again just to get used to playing with a snappier / more responsive sensor -flick shooting is doable again! If I can get this feel in a G402 with optical I'll be happy still. If not;
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Palm slash claw might also go with Zowie's EC series and Roccat PKM. I'm assuming you're used to those ergonomic types so I used those for suggestions.


This might work, Ec2a etc/KPM. Looks interesting from Roccat, never tried one from them - again, as long as it's ideal for twitch fps. Thanks!


----------



## Xenius

*[*] What's your grip style?*
Palm/claw something in between.
*[*] What's your sensitivity?*
900DPI - Mousemat: QcK + (all black)
*[*] What's your maximum budget?*
75€
*[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
I would like to have 2 side buttons.
*[*] What games do you play?*
CS:GO - Red Orchestra - FPS games - Minecraft
*[*] Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction if possible
*[*] Other relevant information:*
Its time for a new mouse since my middle mouse button is not working properly anymore. Now i don't want to get another deathadder since i feel the deathadder is abit too big for my hands. I use something in between claw & palm grip. So im looking for a bit smaller mouse with 2 side buttons if possible.
I was looking at the Sensei Raw rubberized (sweaty palms) but not sure if the buttons on the rights side can be disabled, if i accendently click them or something. Or the Kana v2 but that one only has 1 button on the side. What are the build quality of those steelseries mouses? not that i have to buy another one after a year of usage...
Any other suggestions are welcome! Thanks


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kbros*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 400-2000 for gaming/ atleast 2000 for desktop
> What's your maximum budget? 50 USD
> Do you want additional buttons? nope
> What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
> Other relevant information: I'm using a CM Xornet but I really want something I can palm grip. I really like the support for the ring/pinky fingers.


I suggest the Naos 7000 for you. It is like the big brother of the Xornet. I think it's a good mouse to transition to if you're coming from a using Xornet. I also think that the grip you use for your Xornet, you can also use for the Naos but you'll have better palm support. I have both mice and I can use an almost identical grip, some kind of fingertip/palm hybrid.

Just don't expect the Naos will offer *full* palm support because if you have long fingers you'll end up using a claw or fingertip grip with the Naos.


----------



## maximus5464

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/ palm depending on how much action.

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI and low in-game

3. What's your maximum budget?
80$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
At least 2 other than a dpi switch/ button.

5. What games do you play?
Cs Go mostly.(I use 2 in-game sen in cs go.) Other than that maybe some BF or COD.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
It wont be the deciding factor but if possible then not would be nice.

7. Other relevant information:
I was looking at the g402 and it felt nice when I tried one at PAX. Do you guys think that's a good mouse? Also, i'd prefer optical.


----------



## Kirin96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirin96*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Pure fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? 800-1800
> What's your maximum budget? 100 euro
> Do you want additional buttons? at least 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? CS:GO, MOBA
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
> Other relevant information: I like a *short*, low mouse but quite wide. Now I'm using a G9, something with similar shape should be good.


Any suggestion?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's it. There's no ideal mouse at the moment, which is why I'm stuck with my 3.0.


There never will be an ideal mouse.

Technically speaking, the one that comes closest is the G303.
Buttons, sensor, cable, feet, all seems very good.
The only thing that's up for debate is the shape, and that is a personal preference.

As others have said already in the corresponding G303 thread:
If the shape is to your liking, you won't find a better mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> There never will be an ideal mouse.
> 
> Technically speaking, the one that comes closest is the G303.
> Buttons, sensor, cable, feet, all seems very good.
> The only thing that's up for debate is the shape, and that is a personal preference.
> 
> As others have said already in the corresponding G303 thread:
> If the shape is to your liking, you won't find a better mouse.


I don't believe that. The FM and DA2013 sensors are pretty damn close. All that's needed after that is to put them in a good body.

G303 closest to perfect? You gotta be kidding me... 3366 in the 502 was far from ideal. It was pure marketing and hype by people who don't know how to gauge sensor performance.


----------



## hza

Yeah, Kohler. As always go mlt04 or go home!!!!!!


----------



## Jeemil89

Hi guys, just wan't to share some personal mouse experiences I've had lately. I was using a Steelseries rival for a while and it was a good mouse overall, but just could no stand the awful switches it uses. They are just too mushy and not very tactile, so I tried to solder some omrons I took from my Sensei RAW (love the shape but **** sensor) but somehow I managed to brick the rival (does not register clicks anymore). As the rival broke and the sensei was useless I went back to my old and trusty MX518. It's a really solid mouse, but I don't really like the shape (not enough room for pinky and ringfinger) and the 125hz polling.

So I bought a new mouse again, the G402. I liked the shape of it at the store and since I have had good experiences regarding quality with Logitech mice, I decided to buy it. After using it a couple of weeks I started to dislike the mouse. The shape was not as comfortable as I thought (too narrow for my big hands) and the coating was not very grippy on the right side of the mouse which caused my hand to cramp after long usage since I had to squeeze it hard to be able to lift it.

So now I wanted a new mouse again. I have been looking around a lot through this and other good reviews/threads and ended up with a couple of options. The avior 7000 (probably a good mouse, but I might not like the shape), KPM (too small, and don't like the shape), FM (difficult to obtain here, quality issues), G100s (low PCS, no side buttons), EC1-a/2-a (quality issues and prefer ambi shape more) and FK1/2 (I love the sensei shape, and this seems closest + I don't mind the hard clicks and small added click latency). So I decide to go with the FK1. Holy ****, the FK1 is so mutch better than the g402 and rival I had previously. The sensor feeling is miles ahead the g402 and a I think a little bit better than rival (even though the share the same sensor). Also the shape is much better and the surface is better, especially with sweaty hands. I also actually like the harder clicks on the FK1 and can barely notice the click latency. The scroll wheel and side buttons are not really anything special, but they work. The cable is also much better and more flexible than my other mice. Overall I really like the FK1 personally and I'm going to stick with it for a while. I probably will buy a Sensei optical if the ever release one since I love the shape. The FK1 shape is similar, but a bit thinner. Someone kick Steelseries in the nuts and scream for an optical Sensei







.


----------



## babattaja

1. What's your grip style?

Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
1600dpi, 1000hz

3. What's your maximum budget?
70€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Back and forth (For browsing)

5. What games do you play?
Diablo, cs:go, Guild wars, Bf4

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes i do mind but very little is alright

Other relevant information:
Wired and some weight is alright 80g-110g, Optical is a must.


----------



## Loudrex

I am totally new with gaming mice, so I've filled the form from the first post:

*What's your grip style?*
Normal, just like every mouse.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Well, I don't really know but I think 3200 DPI is enough...
*What's your maximum budget?*
Max. 45 EUR.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, but not more than 8.
*What games do you play?*
I play World of Tanks very often, and also some other MMO's.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Nope
*Other relevant information:*
I have never had a gaming mouse, so I hope you'll be kind with me...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rikdegraaff*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I am totally new with gaming mice, so I've filled the form from the first post:
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Normal, just like every mouse.
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Well, I don't really know but I think 3200 DPI is enough...
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Max. 45 EUR.
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes, but not more than 8.
> *What games do you play?*
> I play World of Tanks very often, and also some other MMO's.
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Nope
> *Other relevant information:*
> I have never had a gaming mouse, so I hope you'll be kind with me...


Gaming mice and non-FPS games:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/


----------



## wes1099

I still can't decide between the ROG gladius, Kone XTD, or EC1-A. The ec1-a scares me with its number of reports saying the scroll wheel gets screwed up easily and the only way to fix it is to void your warranty, and I have also heard bad things about the side buttons. The ROG gladius seems great but I can't find that much info on it and the review on linustechtips says that m1 and m2 are wiggly since they are not part of the shell. The Kone XTD also looks great but I can't find lots of information on it either. Any suggestions?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I still can't decide between the ROG gladius, Kone XTD, or EC1-A. The ec1-a scares me with its number of reports saying the scroll wheel gets screwed up easily and the only way to fix it is to void your warranty, and I have also heard bad things about the side buttons. The ROG gladius seems great but I can't find that much info on it and the review on linustechtips says that m1 and m2 are wiggly since they are not part of the shell. The Kone XTD also looks great but I can't find lots of information on it either. Any suggestions?


EC1-A was nice for me, but it just isn't worth the $60 having used it for a week. Getting the scroll wheel to work right was pretty annoying and mine still doesn't work lately. Just remember that you might not have any problems with one.


----------



## Loudrex

@MaximilianKohler: Thanks for the link.
I am going to take a look at Reddit's mice "category".

But there is no such thing of a "beginners" gaming mouse?


----------



## Kond3P

I posted this to another thread and got no answers yet. I guess more people read this so i might as well post here.

_Looking for a mousepad_

*7. Hard or cloth?*

Cloth, unless there is a hard material that slides well with my gaming sleeve.

*8. Rough or smooth?*

Smooth but not supersmooth.

*9. Which size approximately?*

At least 70cm * 70cm
My sensitivity is 58cm/360 and I play competitive TF2. I also like to rest my hand somewhat forward on the table so the mousepad needs to have quite a bit of height. Otherwise my sleeve gets caught to the edge.
This is the largest deskpad i found, but it's expensive and out of stock.

*10. What's your maximum budget?*

40€

I'm also willing to do some DIY work if there isn't a mousepad that fits my needs.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rikdegraaff*
> 
> But there is no such thing of a "beginners" gaming mouse?


No, not really.


----------



## kd5151

[*] What's your grip style? ALL
[*] What's your sensitivity? 400dpi - 800 dpi. 1 sens in cs:go up to 2.9 in cs:go.
[*] What's your maximum budget? $50 USD
[*] Do you want additional buttons? Yes and no. I use side buttons more in windows then in game.
[*] What games do you play? FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction? YES
[*] Other relevant information:

I have the g400s right know. Did I make a smoothing mistake buying this mouse? I feel my cooler master xornet which I paid $15 is better. Been looking at logitech g100s. maybe g402,rival,kone pure military?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kd5151*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? ALL
> [*] What's your sensitivity? 400dpi - 800 dpi. 1 sens in cs:go up to 2.9 in cs:go.
> [*] What's your maximum budget? $50 USD
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? Yes and no. I use side buttons more in windows then in game.
> [*] What games do you play? FPS
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? YES
> [*] Other relevant information:
> 
> I have the g400s right know. Did I make a smoothing mistake buying this mouse? I feel my cooler master xornet which I paid $15 is better. Been looking at logitech g100s. maybe g402,rival,kone pure military?


There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary quite a bit from other's. Here's my experience:

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse could be the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers.

The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it.


----------



## hza

Maybe you should try Kone XTD Optical, Kohler. Not sure much you like DA 2013 (shape etc.), but bigger Kone may or may not suit you.


----------



## smithydan

Noob help needed. I can't really answer any of the question but budget and that would be below US$85. I also have no preference to games I just play what I like. Some games I have played, Arkham series, War thunder or Metal Gear, it doesn't matter. All these have been played with a stock Dell mouse at 1080pi

From tip of middle finger to end of palm is 21cm and I use a between both a palm and finger tip grip.

At work I use a Logitech G500 and I think that is fine in size, fit, weight and speed. I use dpi max out and mouse speed settings on computer at 7 on two 22" monitors at 1680x1050. Sad thing is I can't tell you how it games.

I have no preference to laser or optical but I like precision for both work and gaming. Thanks.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smithydan*
> 
> Noob help needed. I can't really answer any of the question but budget and that would be below US$85. I also have no preference to games I just play what I like. Some games I have played, Arkham series, War thunder or Metal Gear, it doesn't matter. All these have been played with a stock Dell mouse at 1080pi
> 
> From tip of middle finger to end of palm is 21cm and I use a between both a palm and finger tip grip.
> 
> At work I use a Logitech G500 and I think that is fine in size, fit, weight and speed. I use dpi max out and mouse speed settings on computer at 7 on two 22" monitors at 1680x1050. Sad thing is I can't tell you how it games.
> 
> I have no preference to laser or optical but I like precision for both work and gaming. Thanks.


I don't see any indication that you would need a gaming mouse, or a new mouse at all.

This applies to the games you listed, as they don't need high malfunction speed:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/


----------



## smithydan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't see any indication that you would need a gaming mouse, or a new mouse at all.
> 
> This applies to the games you listed, as they don't need high malfunction speed:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/


Okay thanks.

But just incase I decide to play FPS games or so, what would you recommend?

NB. I did read the link you posted.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smithydan*
> 
> Okay thanks.
> 
> But just incase I decide to play FPS games or so, what would you recommend?
> 
> NB. I did read the link you posted.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4300_50#post_23653158


----------



## deehoC

Welp the leftclick on my Xai is starting to doubleclick on its own quite frequently and its old as hell..and I've noticed its the cause of my slow boot time when loading windows so I figure now is as good a time as any to replace it.


What's your grip style? - Palm
What's your sensitivity? - Default (6 in Windows)
What's your maximum budget? - $150
Do you want additional buttons? - Prefer 2 thumb buttons for right-hand
What games do you play? - FPS games mostly
Do you mind about prediction? - Not sure? Xai software has FreeMove and ExactAim values set to 10
Other relevant information - I used to have a Logitech MX510 then two IME 3.0's and I think one other mouse I'm forgetting before using the Steelseries Xai I have now. I'd prefer something shaped similar to the IME 3.0 or Xai and something with no acceleration please!


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deehoC*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Welp the leftclick on my Xai is starting to doubleclick on its own quite frequently and its old as hell..and I've noticed its the cause of my slow boot time when loading windows so I figure now is as good a time as any to replace it.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - Palm
> What's your sensitivity? - Default (6 in Windows)
> What's your maximum budget? - $150
> Do you want additional buttons? - Prefer 2 thumb buttons for right-hand
> What games do you play? - FPS games mostly
> Do you mind about prediction? - Not sure? Xai software has FreeMove and ExactAim values set to 10
> Other relevant information - I used to have a Logitech MX510 then two IME 3.0's and I think one other mouse I'm forgetting before using the Steelseries Xai I have now. I'd prefer something shaped similar to the IME 3.0 or Xai and something with no acceleration please!


Ambi: Zowie FK1, Mionix Avior 7000
Ergo: Deathadder Chroma, SteelSeries Rival, Zowie EC1-A


----------



## Kirin96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirin96*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Pure fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? 800-1800
> What's your maximum budget? 100 euro
> Do you want additional buttons? at least 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? CS:GO, MOBA
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't want prediction
> Other relevant information: I like a *short*, low mouse but quite wide. Now I'm using a G9, something with similar shape should be good.


any advice?


----------



## Bstealthy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirin96*
> 
> any advice?


short and wide hmmm, I wish Cooler master would spit out their new spawn soon, but the CM Storm Spawn is short, wide, low, optical and designed for fingertip nearly exclusively. the new logitech 303 has quite the hype going right now but I'm not sure how wide it is but both have the extra buttons you're looking for

edit: I wish I could think of more off the top of my head but short wide and low height is a tough combo to find in abundance


----------



## Premise

What's your grip style?

Palm. Might be some sort of claw/palm hybrid. *Edit: After paying more attention to the way I grip the mouse it's definitely claw.*

What's your sensitivity?

Low

What's your maximum budget?

The farther below $100, the better.

Do you want additional buttons?

A couple additional buttons on the side would be nice, but this is less important to me than all other aspects of the mouse.

What games do you play?

FPS

Do you mind about prediction?

No, but I'm not sure how much prediction my current mouse has.

Other relevant information:

I've been using a Razer Naga (the 2012 I believe) for 3 years, but don't play MMOs anymore, have no use for the annoying side buttons, and would like to try a different mouse that is perhaps more suited to FPS. Have been looking into a lot of mice so far and think I'm liking the Roccat KPM and the Zowie EC2-A, but with so many options and little experience with mice I'm really not sure what to get. Before the Naga I had a Deathadder that stopped working after a couple of years.


----------



## Bstealthy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Premise*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm. Might be some sort of claw/palm hybrid.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Low
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> The farther below $100, the better.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> A couple additional buttons on the side would be nice, but this is less important to me than all other aspects of the mouse.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> FPS
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No, but I'm not sure how much prediction my current mouse has.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I've been using a Razer Naga (the 2012 I believe) for 3 years, but don't play MMOs anymore, have no use for the annoying side buttons, and would like to try a different mouse that is perhaps more suited to FPS. Have been looking into a lot of mice so far and think I'm liking the Roccat KPM and the Zowie EC2-A, but with so many options and little experience with mice I'm really not sure what to get. Before the Naga I had a Deathadder that stopped working after a couple of years.


I'd recommend you look into the Deathadder 2013 or Chroma if you like Razer. Without knowing your hand size, the Kone pure military and Zowie EC2-A are both what I'd consider medium sized ergonomic mice while the DA variants are a bit larger for e.g. the EC1 is really the same size as the DA without the contours at the front of the mouse. All the mentioned mice are around $50-60 price range

edit: the logitech g502 is also highly recommended if you can stand the extra weight.


----------



## Premise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> I'd recommend you look into the Deathadder 2013 or Chroma if you like Razer. Without knowing your hand size, the Kone pure military and Zowie EC2-A are both what I'd consider medium sized ergonomic mice while the DA variants are a bit larger for e.g. the EC1 is really the same size as the DA without the contours at the front of the mouse. All the mentioned mice are around $50-60 price range
> 
> edit: the logitech g502 is also highly recommended if you can stand the extra weight.


I'd say I have medium sized hands so I'm thinking the KPM and EC1/2-A would be fitting in that regard. Concerning the g502 and it's weight. It seems with the weights remove it's 11g heavier than my naga so maybe it wouldn't be bad, but I'm not sure I want a heavier mouse.

What I don't like about the zowie mice is the inability to use between 400 and 800 DPI, but the lack of software is a plus to me. Will probably just pick something and see how I like it. Thanks for your input.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> edit: the logitech g502 is also highly recommended if you can stand the extra weight.


No, please don't. That mouse is pure marketing and over-hype.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirin96*
> 
> any advice?


http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=331-9667
Basically it's the Alienware version of G9/G9x


----------



## Kirin96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> short and wide hmmm, I wish Cooler master would spit out their new spawn soon, but the CM Storm Spawn is short, wide, low, optical and designed for fingertip nearly exclusively. the new logitech 303 has quite the hype going right now but I'm not sure how wide it is but both have the extra buttons you're looking for
> 
> edit: I wish I could think of more off the top of my head but short wide and low height is a tough combo to find in abundance


First thanks for your help. CM Storm seems to have the right shape, logitech 303 seems to have a quite strange shape and is difficult to imagine how feel it in my hand. You have talked about a new version of CM Storm Spawn. They have already announced it? I have used G9 for long time, I can wait some more months.


----------



## Kirin96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=331-9667
> Basically it's the Alienware version of G9/G9x


I want to change my G9 for something better, with a good optical sensor.


----------



## hza

I see. Just thought you look for something similar to G9/G9x.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=331-9667
> Basically it's the Alienware version of G9/G9x


I really dislike people spreading this notion because of an ebay title description. Sure, the front part of the mouse is a clone of the G9X and I'm guessing the internals are the same, but the back end is considerably different from the comfort grip and massively different from the precision grip. People like the G9x because of the shape, and having over half the mouse (the more important side no less) be something entirely different kinda defeats the entire purpose.


----------



## Bstealthy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirin96*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> short and wide hmmm, I wish Cooler master would spit out their new spawn soon, but the CM Storm Spawn is short, wide, low, optical and designed for fingertip nearly exclusively. the new logitech 303 has quite the hype going right now but I'm not sure how wide it is but both have the extra buttons you're looking for
> 
> edit: I wish I could think of more off the top of my head but short wide and low height is a tough combo to find in abundance
> 
> 
> 
> First thanks for your help. CM Storm seems to have the right shape, logitech 303 seems to have a quite strange shape and is difficult to imagine how feel it in my hand. You have talked about a new version of CM Storm Spawn. They have already announced it? I have used G9 for long time, I can wait some more months.
Click to expand...

Yeah I believe Cooler Master is working towards releasing a new updated version of the CM storm spawn line but sadly nothing official has been announced far as I'm aware


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I really dislike people spreading this notion because of an ebay title description. Sure, the front part of the mouse is a clone of the G9X and I'm guessing the internals are the same, but the back end is considerably different from the comfort grip and massively different from the precision grip. People like the G9x because of the shape, and having over half the mouse (the more important side no less) be something entirely different kinda defeats the entire purpose.


Was a deal between Dell and Logitech. I said it's similar, not the same. Similar = still different. Just saying...


----------



## a_ak57

You didn't say similar, you said it's basically the G9x which is a far stronger statement. And either way, I honestly wouldn't even call them similar mice. The only similarity is the first third of the mouse. If something had the very front of a WMO and the back two thirds of an Avior, you wouldn't recommend it to WMO fans saying it's "basically the WMO." The reason I'm being a jerk about this is because I've already seen people give the "it's a dell g9x" line before, and I don't want misinformation spreading across the internet. It's only partially like the G9X, but not in the important way i.e. the back 2/3 which is pretty much the entire reason people like its shape(s).


----------



## hza

Basically inclusdes the word similar to me. I said "similar" in my next post. Besides, there are people who prefer the TactX for the same reason other people prefer G9x. And that doesn't mean all user hate the other version. Both mice share the same base. It was a deal between Logitech and Dell no matter what. I didn't spread wrong information.


----------



## solarin006

What's your grip style?
Mix between claw and fingertip

What's your sensitivity?
~800 dpi

What's your maximum budget?
$100USD (although $75 or less would be ideal)

Do you want additional buttons?
2x left side buttons.

What games do you play?
CSGO, DoD:S, BF, Civ

Do you mind about prediction?
Not a fan.

Other relevant information:
Looking for an ergo right hand mouse. I'm currently using a Savu which I like very much, however the coating wears through very fast. Also roccat logo indented into the right mouse button is a bit of a distraction. Before that I had a deathadder black that was a little too large and quite heavy, but decent shape wise. Both of these have rubberized/non-glossy finishes which I prefer to glossy counterparts. If I could get something to run driverless (or save settings to the mouse and then uninstall the drivers) it would be icing on the cake, but not strictly necessary. Ideally something ~120mm long and ~85-95g.


----------



## crashnburn_819

What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *>=3000*
What's your maximum budget? *$50*
Do you want additional buttons? *Just need two for my thumb*
What games do you play? All sorts
Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction please*
I currently use a MX518 (stupid DeathAdder started double-clicking in two weeks). I needed a DPI higher than the 1800 I was getting with the MX518 and was using 3000 on the DeathAdder. I'm looking for something wired with an optical sensor and no acceleration. I was considering the G502 for $50 but some people say it's all hype. After getting burned by the DeathAdder, I don't really want a Razer mouse again. Cheaper is better but I don't mind spending more for better longevity.

Edit:
Mionix AVIOR 7000, didn't want to mess with firmware flashing and didn't hear good things about their software.
CoolerMaster Recon, ambidextrous is good for lefty's but I'm too used to right-hand only mice.
SteelSeries Rival, RGB LED is cool but a 1 year warranty isn't what I'm looking for.
Logitech G502, had a great sensor but way more buttons than I needed and didn't like the scroll wheel.
Corsair M45, would have been my second choice with it's 2 year warranty but was a little too short for me, which is why I went with..
Logitech G402, good all around and didn't break the bank. Didn't have any bells and whistles I didn't need and had a solid 2 year warranty.


----------



## SmXme

Hi, first of all, i'm sorry if my english isn't perfect, i'm french.

What's your grip style?

Palm Grip

What's your sensitivity?
400 DPI

What's your maximum budget?
70€ (90$)

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, 2 minimum.

What games do you play?
FPS (CSGO / CSS / RUST), MOBA, and RTS

Do you mind about prediction?
I want a natural render

Other relevant information
I saw Steelseries Rival and Mionix Avior 7000. Give me ur advices please.
Black & Red design if possible,

Thanks


----------



## wes1099

I found a great deal on the Kone XTD, I will post it later after I make sure I can get one first


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I found a great deal on the Kone XTD, I will post it later after I make sure I can get one first


spill the beans


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> spill the beans


Here are the beans - http://www.frys.com/product/8304337?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

$49.99, free ground shipping, and $5 2nd day shipping. Great deal compared to the $83.02 on amazon. I got overnight shipping because I am impatient so I will hopefully have it tomorrow.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmXme*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, first of all, i'm sorry if my english isn't perfect, i'm french.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Palm Grip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 70€ (90$)
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, 2 minimum.
> 
> What games do you play?
> FPS (CSGO / CSS / RUST), MOBA, and RTS
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I want a natural render
> 
> Other relevant information
> I saw Steelseries Rival and Mionix Avior 7000. Give me ur advices please.
> Black & Red design if possible,
> 
> Thanks


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solarin006*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Mix between claw and fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> ~800 dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100USD (although $75 or less would be ideal)
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2x left side buttons.
> 
> What games do you play?
> CSGO, DoD:S, BF, Civ
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not a fan.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Looking for an ergo right hand mouse. I'm currently using a Savu which I like very much, however the coating wears through very fast. Also roccat logo indented into the right mouse button is a bit of a distraction. Before that I had a deathadder black that was a little too large and quite heavy, but decent shape wise. Both of these have rubberized/non-glossy finishes which I prefer to glossy counterparts. If I could get something to run driverless (or save settings to the mouse and then uninstall the drivers) it would be icing on the cake, but not strictly necessary. Ideally something ~120mm long and ~85-95g.


There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary quite a bit from other's. Here's my experience:

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse could be the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. They're releasing new firmware that might fix all the issues.

The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.

Gaming mice and non-FPS games:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *>=3000*
What's your maximum budget? *$50*
Do you want additional buttons? *Just need two for my thumb*
What games do you play? All sorts
Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction please*
I currently use a MX518 (stupid DeathAdder started double-clicking in two weeks). I needed a DPI higher than the 1800 I was getting with the MX518 and was using 3000 on the DeathAdder. I'm looking for something wired with an optical sensor and no acceleration. I was considering the G502 for $50 but some people say it's all hype. After getting burned by the DeathAdder, I don't really want a Razer mouse again. Cheaper is better but I don't mind spending more for better longevity.

Edit:
Mionix AVIOR 7000, didn't want to mess with firmware flashing and didn't hear good things about their software.
CoolerMaster Recon, ambidextrous is good for lefty's but I'm too used to right-hand only mice.
SteelSeries Rival, RGB LED is cool but a 1 year warranty isn't what I'm looking for.
Logitech G502, had a great sensor but way more buttons than I needed and didn't like the scroll wheel.
Corsair M45, would have been my second choice with it's 2 year warranty but was a little too short for me, which is why I went with..
Logitech G402, good all around and didn't break the bank. Didn't have any bells and whistles I didn't need and had a solid 2 year warranty.


[/QUOTE]
Curious why you would *think* you need more than 1800dpi.


----------



## crashnburn_819

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Curious why you would *think* you need more than 1800dpi.


On my 27" 1440p monitor, a casual flick won't bring my cursor from one corner to the other in Windows.


----------



## SmXme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary quite a bit from other's. Here's my experience:
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse could be the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. They're releasing new firmware that might fix all the issues.
> 
> The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be causgired by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.
> 
> Gaming mice and non-FPS games:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/
> Curious why you would *think* you need more than 1800dpi.


Okay thanks.
So what is ur point about Steelseries Rivals, Mionix Naos 7000, Asus Gladius ?
My girlfriend love the R.A.T 5 / 7, can u give me ur opinion?
Thanks


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmXme*
> 
> Okay thanks.
> So what is ur point about Steelseries Rivals, Mionix Naos 7000, Asus Gladius ?
> My girlfriend love the R.A.T 5 / 7, can u give me ur opinion?
> Thanks


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crashnburn_819*
> 
> On my 27" 1440p monitor, a casual flick won't bring my cursor from one corner to the other in Windows.


I know some people genuinely don't care about being better, but if you do, that level of sensitivity will only make you worse.


----------



## SmXme

So they are bad, right?


----------



## crashnburn_819

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> I know some people genuinely don't care about being better, but if you do, that level of sensitivity will only make you worse.


Haha maybe I'm not understanding but I don't see how a higher DPI mouse is going to make me a bad gamer xD
I mean, I don't need to jack up the DPI to max all the time, but at least I'd have the option when I want it. 1800 DPI on my MX518 is just not cutting it at my resolution.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crashnburn_819*
> 
> Haha maybe I'm not understanding but I don't see how a higher DPI mouse is going to make me a bad gamer xD
> I mean, I don't need to jack up the DPI to max all the time, but at least I'd have the option when I want it. 1800 DPI on my MX518 is just not cutting it at my resolution.


You can aim much more accurately with lower DPI because with a higher DPI, the slightest incorrect movement of the hand and you are completely off target.


----------



## crashnburn_819

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> You can aim much more accurately with lower DPI because with a higher DPI, the slightest incorrect movement of the hand and you are completely off target.


Sure but I don't think I'll be so off target that I'll miss the start button in Windows


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmXme*
> 
> So they are bad, right?


In my experience they are worse than the other mice I recommended.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crashnburn_819*
> 
> Haha maybe I'm not understanding but I don't see how a higher DPI mouse is going to make me a bad gamer xD
> I mean, I don't need to jack up the DPI to max all the time, but at least I'd have the option when I want it. 1800 DPI on my MX518 is just not cutting it at my resolution.


With lower dpi/sensitivity you can make precise moves faster. To a certain extent of course. IMO 1800dpi @ 1440 is pretty much the highest ceiling, but w/e.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crashnburn_819*
> 
> Sure but I don't think I'll be so off target that I'll miss the start button in Windows


True, lol


----------



## wes1099

Since I get my Roccat Kone XTD tomorrow, I will probably spend the afternoon playing with settings, then I will probably make a review of it. I am hoping it arrives before I get home tomorrow afternoon so I can start testing it right away.


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmXme*
> 
> Okay thanks.
> So what is ur point about Steelseries Rivals, Mionix Naos 7000, Asus Gladius ?
> My girlfriend love the R.A.T 5 / 7, can u give me ur opinion?
> Thanks


I have a R.A.T. 7 Infection, which was ok at the beginning, but after maybe 8 month or so the laser started to play-up (Mouse-Pointer is moving without touching the Mouse).

It seems to be quite common and therefor I couldn't be bothered to RMA it.


----------



## SmXme

Hmmm okay.
My girlfriend is looking for a "small" mouse and claw grip.
She is loving M45 and RAT 5 / 7 mice but i don't know what can i suggest to her.

Can u give me a list of good small claw grip mice?
Thanks guys


----------



## TONSCHUH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmXme*
> 
> Hmmm okay.
> My girlfriend is looking for a "small" mouse and claw grip.
> She is loving M45 and RAT 5 / 7 mice but i don't know what can i suggest to her.
> 
> Can u give me a list of good small claw grip mice?
> Thanks guys


I got myself the Roccat Kone Pure Military, which is smaller than a Kone[+].



If you would like to get a Laser-Mouse, then maybe get the Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1:


----------



## Ximplicite

is G302 good for claw grip? also i do always play MOBA Games
g303 is not available here in my country


----------



## Sebiale

*What's your grip style?*
Palm type I believe
*What's your sensitivity?*
Not sure. I play a variety of games, so I would guess mid?
*What's your maximum budget?*
Probably around $60
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I either want no additional buttons, or buttons that the mouse's software can disable (accidentally hitting the back button on this current mouse is quite annoying)
*What games do you play?*
Pretty much all types, only one maybe worth noting is DOTA 2 (or it will be once I can figure out what's gone wrong with its connection)
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I have no idea
*Other relevant information:*
It MUST be corded. I can't stand wireless mice
I'd like to avoid any kind of attached side-grips I think. Grips on mice for me seem to have a tendency to come off eventually
It would be a right-hand mouse


----------



## ltpdttcdft

Been using an HP GM324AA (model M859PU) for years. Now the scroll wheel no longer clicks reliably. Looking for a replacement.

*Top 1-2 attributes:*
Looking for a wired USB laptop mouse that consumes 80mA or less.
No sharp edges as I carry it in my pocket.

*1. What's your grip style?*
I use different grips depending on situation. Palm, claw and tip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Don't know. I've only used generic/OEM mice before.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$20ish

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
No.

*5. What games do you play?*
Not really gaming, mostly office/content creation with lots of panning/zooming

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Don't know.

*7. Other relevant information:*
-Not wireless.
-Must consume <=80mA from the USB port.
-Must not require its own batteries.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ltpdttcdft*
> 
> Been using an HP GM324AA (model M859PU) for years. Now the scroll wheel no longer clicks reliably. Looking for a replacement.
> 
> *Top 1-2 attributes:*
> Looking for a wired USB laptop mouse that consumes 80mA or less.
> No sharp edges as I carry it in my pocket.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> I use different grips depending on situation. Palm, claw and tip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Don't know. I've only used generic/OEM mice before.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $20ish
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> No.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Not really gaming, mostly office/content creation with lots of panning/zooming
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Don't know.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> -Not wireless.
> -Must consume <=80mA from the USB port.
> -Must not require its own batteries.


Maybe a Logitech G100s, Roccat Lua or Razer Abyssus? You can find G100s and Lua for 20-30 USD, the Abyssus is probably over 30.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ltpdttcdft*
> 
> Been using an HP GM324AA (model M859PU) for years. Now the scroll wheel no longer clicks reliably. Looking for a replacement.
> 
> *Top 1-2 attributes:*
> Looking for a wired USB laptop mouse that consumes 80mA or less.
> No sharp edges as I carry it in my pocket.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> I use different grips depending on situation. Palm, claw and tip.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Don't know. I've only used generic/OEM mice before.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $20ish
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> No.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Not really gaming, mostly office/content creation with lots of panning/zooming
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Don't know.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> -Not wireless.
> -Must consume <=80mA from the USB port.
> -Must not require its own batteries.


Shape wise the old Abyssus is probably the next best thing. You can find one around $20 USD on eBay used.


----------



## ltpdttcdft

Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately none of them advertise <=80mA








Logitech G100____ 100mA
Roccat Lua____??? (current draw not specified but has decorative LED which is not good for power efficiency)
Razer Abyssus____150mA

Also there are 2 posts ahead of me, dear mouse experts, kinda awkward...


----------



## hza

Well, most people here look for "gaming" peripherals and don't care too much about power consumption.


----------



## Skylit

I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for in a wired gaming mouse. G100s hardware offers lower power consumption than most devices.

I believe it's setup in full power mode and I doubt logitech will revise it to save some mA ;p


----------



## ltpdttcdft

I was thinking the same characteristics which make a mouse good for gaming would translate to content creation.
Both need fast, accurate movement and actuation. Which requires a mouse with reliable/accurate switches and a body that's lightweight/responsive.

I haven't been able to find a way to search wired mice by power consumption, and the ones that do come up are wireless which I consider less reliable/responsive than wired.
They all use batteries which add a lot of mass (bad for claw/fingertip grips + lifting the mouse) and are another thing to worry about.

Was just hoping somebody might have paid attention to the specs of their mouse and noticed the power consumption...

Oh well, thanks anyway


----------



## el-jorge

What's your grip style?
Claw

What's your sensitivity?
Not sure, I don't think too high, I now have a Cyborg RAT MMO, DPI is mostly around 1600

What's your maximum budget?
EUR 150

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

What games do you play?
The Witcher 3
Skyrim
Total War

Do you mind about prediction?
Not really

Other relevant information:
I do really like the shape and layout of my Cyborg RAT MMO. It is around 3 years old. I really like how the buttons work, and the manner you can appoint the buttons. I dislike the laser sensor, the philips twineye 6400 dpi. The mouse loses frequently the vertical position, I also had to buy a different mousepad (hard plastic) before it really worked. I'm not fond of mice like the Logitech G600 where there is a block of buttons. I do really like the looks of the Logitech G602.
I have owned a Logitech G700, but that mouse is too big in hight, to much a palm grip mouse for my taste.


----------



## harner

Someone help me spend my money!

*Top 1-2 attributes:*
Must be laser, and wireless
Must be fairly large as I have big, man hands

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm and claw

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Depends on what I'm doing. Windows is generally cranked up all the way, and games are usually a tick or two faster.

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
$150

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Sure but nothing crazy. I don't need 50 buttons. I primarily use left, middle, right, and the back/forward next to the thumb.

*5. What games do you play?*
Minecraft, BF4, Starcraft 2, Far Cry 4, Misc FPS and other games on Steam.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I'd rather not deal with that, but never had to.

*7. Other relevant information:*
My first "gaming" mouse was an MX1000 and I miss it dearly. I loved the shape, accuracy, and charging ability. It was the best mouse I ever owned.
I recently retired my MX1100 which didn't hold a candle to the 1000.
I'm currently running a cheapo Amazon $20 E-Blue Razer but I *hate* how I need to click it to wake up, and the response is getting weak.
I'm running Win7 Pro x64, but do a lot of virtualization, remote server work, and Office stuff (damn grad degree).


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *harner*
> 
> Someone help me spend my money!
> 
> *Top 1-2 attributes:*
> Must be laser, and wireless
> Must be fairly large as I have big, man hands
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Palm and claw
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> Depends on what I'm doing. Windows is generally cranked up all the way, and games are usually a tick or two faster.
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> $150
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Sure but nothing crazy. I don't need 50 buttons. I primarily use left, middle, right, and the back/forward next to the thumb.
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> Minecraft, BF4, Starcraft 2, Far Cry 4, Misc FPS and other games on Steam.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'd rather not deal with that, but never had to.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> My first "gaming" mouse was an MX1000 and I miss it dearly. I loved the shape, accuracy, and charging ability. It was the best mouse I ever owned.
> I recently retired my MX1100 which didn't hold a candle to the 1000.
> I'm currently running a cheapo Amazon $20 E-Blue Razer but I *hate* how I need to click it to wake up, and the response is getting weak.
> I'm running Win7 Pro x64, but do a lot of virtualization, remote server work, and Office stuff (damn grad degree).


Check out the *Logitech G700s* on amazon. It is relatively large, has a laser sensor, has plenty of buttons, and can be wireless or wired.


----------



## sawnik

1.What's your grip style?
Claw grip.
2.What's your sensitivity?
400dpi, CS:GO 2.5 sens.
3.What's your maximum budget?
70$
4.Do you want additional buttons?
Don't need..
5.What games do you play?
CS:GO
6.Do you mind about prediction?
Don't need this ****.
7.Other relevant information:
I want low weight mouse(70-100g), with good sensor. My hand size from tip of middle finger to end of palm is 17cm and I currently using steelseries kana.


----------



## hamzta09

*What's your grip style?* - Palm/Claw hybrid
*What's your sensitivity?* - 800 dpi, 6/11 Windows, 1 CSGO.
*What's your maximum budget?* - Doesnt matter.
*Do you want additional buttons?* - Back button is nice, scroll and a DPI button.
*What games do you play?* - CSGO, Skylines, heavy mix.
*Do you mind about prediction?* - I guess I do.

*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
Must be Optical.
Must have good sensor with no inputlag, accel etc. Must be able to keep up. Low jitter.
Must work well on Cloth mousepads such as Qck or Razer Goliathus.

Must also be easy to lift due to low sens in CSGO. Dont want my pinky hurting after a few minutes playing due to poor grip on pinky side.
My G400 has a kind of slippery-rubberlike material on the sides, can be annoying when your hands are super dry.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* - Palm/Claw hybrid
> *What's your sensitivity?* - 800 dpi, 6/11 Windows, 1 CSGO.
> *What's your maximum budget?* - Doesnt matter.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* - Back button is nice, scroll and a DPI button.
> *What games do you play?* - CSGO, Skylines, heavy mix.
> *Do you mind about prediction?* - I guess I do.
> 
> *Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> Must be Optical.
> Must have good sensor with no inputlag, accel etc. Must be able to keep up. Low jitter.
> Must work well on Cloth mousepads such as Qck or Razer Goliathus.
> 
> Must also be easy to lift due to low sens in CSGO. Dont want my pinky hurting after a few minutes playing due to poor grip on pinky side.
> My G400 has a kind of slippery-rubberlike material on the sides, can be annoying when your hands are super dry.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sawnik*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> Claw grip.
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> 400dpi, CS:GO 2.5 sens.
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> 70$
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> Don't need..
> 5.What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't need this ****.
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I want low weight mouse(70-100g), with good sensor. My hand size from tip of middle finger to end of palm is 17cm and I currently using steelseries kana.


There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary from other's. Here's my experience:

MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor can perform on the same level if you get a good one, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse might be the best for FPS games if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. The new firmware improves the tracking inconsistency & fixes the CPI issue. They're releasing a summer version which is supposed to have fixed the inconsistency/quality control issues. The SE further improved the tracking, but it's still not flawless. I think it's due to shoddy manufacturing quality.

The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best (close to on-par with the FM SE now) sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.

More details: (my reviews) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary quite a bit from other's. Here's my experience:
> 
> MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. MLT04 pros and cons: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/2600_50#post_22420357
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor performs on the same level, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse could be the best (especially for FPS games) if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. They're releasing new firmware that might fix all the issues.
> 
> The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of smoothing on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no smoothing on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.


Have Razer upped their game?
Is Chroma updated, or is it just colored LEDs?

Read alot about the 2013 with buggy clicks (double clicking) and scrollwheel stopping, sensor giving up from time to time.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Chroma's the same as the 2013.


----------



## Caketrees

*What's your grip style?*
Fluctuates between palm and a hybrid claw

*What's your sensitivity?*
60 cm/360

*What's your maximum budget?*
No cap

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Indifferent

*What games do you play?*
FPS mainly, CS.
*
Do you mind about prediction?*
Not really

*Other relevant information:*
Tried the Zowie EC1 / EC2 / FK / FK1 / AM, Razer Taipan / Abyssus 2014 / Deathadder, Steelseries Rival / Kinzu / Ikari / Sensei, Roccat Kone Pure / XTD, Logitech G402 / G400 / MX518 / G100, Minoix Avior 7000. Looking for some new ideas... don't mind ambi but preferably right-handed. Must be relatively light (70-95g) and does not have super soft mouse buttons like the older generation of Razer mice.


----------



## Marakeh

*What's your grip style?*
Claw Grip
*What's your sensitivity?*
1600 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?*
No maximum budget, hit me with everything you have.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Optional
*What games do you play?*
League of Legends mostly, RTS games, and FPS games.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I have a vague idea of what mouse prediction is, however I value accuracy above all else if that helps.
*Other relevant information:*
First of I'd like it optical, no laser, braided cord is optional, wireless is a no go, also no Roccat mouses, had a bad time with my Kone XTD.

Mice in my mind, R.A.T.3, Kana V2, G502/402/302, EVGA TORQ X5, Corsair M45/Sabre RGB.


----------



## CarpeOmnious

*[*] What's your grip style?
*had to look this up. I use fingertips only with palm on desk. I currently use a Logitech g500 with all the weights. I have long fingers too which is why i do it this way.

*[*] What's your sensitivity?
*2000dpi seems like that is high. It feels goofy moving my arm for control.

*[*] What's your maximum budget?
*I'm kinda skeptical about gaming mice (never had one), but i'm always willing to shell out for the best.

*[*] Do you want additional buttons?
*fwd/back

*[*] What games do you play?
*FPS(COD BF4) and RTS (FAF) I can hit what I aim at usually faster that the opponent. faster is better.

*[*] Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't know, will look this up later. Sounds like hand waving to me.

*[*] Other relevant information:
*I like the free spinning wheel. The clicky audible wheels drive me crazy. I think i have reasonably low input lag, i assume that all of the suggested mice would only be an improvement. I prefer a simple elegant appearance, I am an adult after all.


----------



## WhipeeDip

A bit different type of suggestion. Just looking for a small laptop wireless mouse for portability.

What's your grip style?
Grip/fingertip, I use the CM Storm Spawn normally and it fits my grip style exceptionally well.
All the laptop wireless mice I've looked at have an ambidextrous shape (curves inward at the middle) which I find very uncomfortable. However, I find a shape like the WMO fine.

What's your sensitivity?
1800 dpi is what I normally use, but honestly anything should be okay.

What's your maximum budget?
Cheap as possible, but open to all suggestions.

Do you want additional buttons?
Side back/forward buttons would be nice, but not necessary.

What games do you play?
This will be used for general stuff.

Do you mind about prediction?
Would rather not, but I don't think this matters too much.

Other relevant information:
Just looking for a small laptop wireless mouse for portability. Ideally, I want something that can track on many different surfaces (Microsoft Bluetrack, Logitech Darkfield; I don't think there's any other technology? Sadly, the mice with these technology have shapes I don't particularly like; but maybe there's more out there I'm not aware of).
Currently trying the Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 3500. I would like it a lot if it weren't for the shape.


----------



## harner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Check out the *Logitech G700s* on amazon. It is relatively large, has a laser sensor, has plenty of buttons, and can be wireless or wired.


Just wanted to follow up and say thanks for the suggestion. Just got it in the mail today. Fits my hand well, extremely smooth. It's a bit light but better than the crap Razer I was using. I would suggest this for anyone looking for a competent mouse with large hands.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *harner*
> 
> Just wanted to follow up and say thanks for the suggestion. Just got it in the mail today. Fits my hand well, extremely smooth. It's a bit light but better than the crap Razer I was using. I would suggest this for anyone looking for a competent mouse with large hands.


Glad you like it.


----------



## vivithemage

What's your grip style?
ze claw
What's your sensitivity?
1.28 in most games, and 6 tick in windows
I use 1000 DPI with my current mouse G700
What's your maximum budget?
$100
Do you want additional buttons?
just forward and back on the left side
What games do you play?
csgo, bf4, hardline, LoL, other random FPS RPG's, etc
Do you mind about prediction?
unsure what this is?
Other relevant information:
I used to love the mx300, but it is no longer made. I moved to a G5 for a few years, loved it as well. For the last 3-4 years I have used a G700 wirelessly and it is great, but I think I want to try something different and possibly corded again. I have no issues moving a heavy mouse and snapping my shots, but looking at some of these mice they weigh literally half the weight! So I thought i'd try one out. I am lost on sesnors and stuff though, I have never had an issue aiming with imperfect sensors I guess, but maybe I haven't tried 'the best'?


----------



## KGPrime

Claw Grippers. 10 dolla. http://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIMICE-307R-High-Performance-Mouse/dp/B008F6MMO8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1428115653&sr=8-2&keywords=perimice307

Build quality rivals anything 60 dollars or more. Rubber coating, tracks on anything - anything. No Lag, No Acceleration switchable DPI 800/1600 , plug and play, no drivers, no macros, no lights. 10 dolla. I have the corded one.
Replaces my 10 year old Microsoft Laser mouse that still works perfectly, but looks like it went through hell. That mouse made it through Diablo 2, Diablo3, countless MMO's, Rpgs, and a bazillion League of Legends clicks after all that.
Price does not equal quality in Mice these days. They are mostly ALL made in China and if it says Razer on it, It's absolute crap, not worth accepting if it were a free gift.

Cons of the Perimice (corded). It's maybe a little bit too small, but for most claw grippers that's usually a plus. Same size as the CS Storm basically without the pinky rest on the right. Also wish it had ambidextrous buttons as i like to use my ring finger for "back" in browser.
I haven't found a "better" mouse for any price.

By comparison, I picked up an70 dollar EVGA Torq10 last night on a whim while buying a game controller, seemed built good ( from the box), had buttons on the right, i thought, EVGA, looks like it's good build quality, aluminum side buttons. Wow, what a pile of crap. I can't even begin, not even worth wasting the time on explaining what Absolute crap it is. It's laughable, exept now i have to drive back to return it. The gas alone wasn't worth the bother.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vivithemage*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> ze claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1.28 in most games, and 6 tick in windows
> I use 1000 DPI with my current mouse G700
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> just forward and back on the left side
> What games do you play?
> csgo, bf4, hardline, LoL, other random FPS RPG's, etc
> Do you mind about prediction?
> unsure what this is?
> Other relevant information:
> I used to love the mx300, but it is no longer made. I moved to a G5 for a few years, loved it as well. For the last 3-4 years I have used a G700 wirelessly and it is great, but I think I want to try something different and possibly corded again. I have no issues moving a heavy mouse and snapping my shots, but looking at some of these mice they weigh literally half the weight! So I thought i'd try one out. I am lost on sesnors and stuff though, I have never had an issue aiming with imperfect sensors I guess, but maybe I haven't tried 'the best'?


You say claw but you mention g5 and g700 which work more towards a palm grip .


----------



## yinx

I'm not sure how I'm going to put this into words, because my wishes for a new mouse might sound really weird... but here goes.

I'm looking for a long mouse. Preferably I'd like the sensor positioned as far to the front of the mouse as possible. I like to hold my mouse as far to the back as possible, like I do with my FK1 now. It makes me feel like I'm 'wielding' the sensor/mouse.

Told you it was going to be weird







can anyone name a mouse that might suit me?


----------



## hza

G500/G500s (wired), G700/G700s (wireless) have their sensors in the front.


----------



## jubi

What's your grip style? *Claw/Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *400-800 dpi, (800dpi @ 1.47 ingame sens in CS:GO, would also use the 400dpi equivalent)*
What's your maximum budget? *80€*
Do you want additional buttons? *I don't care*
What games do you play? *CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction pls*
Other relevant information: *Rubber clothing prefered, ambidextrous shape, prefered switches: mid-light, tactile activation*
I am used to the kinzu v2 and want to step up to a mouse that's not so cheap. One of the Zowie FK's or AM's or the Mionix Avior 7000 look appealing to me, altough I am very open to other suggestions.

Thanks and kind regards,

jubi


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jubi*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw/Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *400-800 dpi, (800dpi @ 1.47 ingame sens in CS:GO, would also use the 400dpi equivalent)*
> What's your maximum budget? *80€*
> Do you want additional buttons? *I don't care*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction pls*
> Other relevant information: *Rubber clothing prefered, ambidextrous shape, prefered switches: mid-light, tactile activation*
> I am used to the kinzu v2 and want to step up to a mouse that's not so cheap. One of the Zowie FK's or AM's or the Mionix Avior 7000 look appealing to me, altough I am very open to other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks and kind regards,
> 
> jubi


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979

I just got the new FM firmware and it seems pretty good, though I still need to test it more.


----------



## KGPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yinx*
> 
> I'm not sure how I'm going to put this into words, because my wishes for a new mouse might sound really weird... but here goes.
> 
> I'm looking for a long mouse. Preferably I'd like the sensor positioned as far to the front of the mouse as possible. I like to hold my mouse as far to the back as possible, like I do with my FK1 now. It makes me feel like I'm 'wielding' the sensor/mouse.
> 
> Told you it was going to be weird
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can anyone name a mouse that might suit me?


Actually me too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jubi*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw/Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *400-800 dpi, (800dpi @ 1.47 ingame sens in CS:GO, would also use the 400dpi equivalent)*
> What's your maximum budget? *80€*
> Do you want additional buttons? *I don't care*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No prediction pls*
> Other relevant information: *Rubber clothing prefered, ambidextrous shape, prefered switches: mid-light, tactile activation*
> I am used to the kinzu v2 and want to step up to a mouse that's not so cheap. One of the Zowie FK's or AM's or the Mionix Avior 7000 look appealing to me, altough I am very open to other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks and kind regards,
> 
> jubi


Price really has nothing to do with it. Most mice can be made for 10 dollars, everything else is advertising, and packaging/software ect. Believe it.

The whole mouse debate and sensors this and that fuels forums like these. A really skilled FPS player will destroy you with a ball mouse, no matter what 100 dollar Otherbouros yuma gachi space fanastico led lit monstrosity you buy. I've seen it with my own eyes. Countless times gaming and first hand (not by me, lol) over nearly 17 years of PC gaming. I used to know a guy who annihilated people back in the day in CS pre 1.6 and Quake aBF1942, with a track ball thing using his thumb only. You can buy the best fatsest 144hz tn gaming monitor and a skilled player will beat you on his 10 year old TV. Truth.
The right tools "help" but skill is what matters.

Same reason why after all these years of "advancements" in Mouse technology, Hardcore FPS ers are still hording 15 year old Microsoft intellimice.


----------



## jubi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KGPrime*
> 
> Actually me too.
> Price really has nothing to do with it. Most mice can be made for 10 dollars, everything else is advertising, and packaging/software ect. Believe it.
> 
> The whole mouse debate and sensors this and that fuels forums like these. A really skilled FPS player will destroy you with a ball mouse, no matter what 100 dollar Otherbouros yuma gachi space fanastico led lit monstrosity you buy. I've seen it with my own eyes. Countless times gaming and first hand (not by me, lol) over nearly 17 years of PC gaming. I used to know a guy who annihilated people back in the day in CS pre 1.6 and Quake aBF1942, with a track ball thing using his thumb only. You can buy the best fatsest 144hz tn gaming monitor and a skilled player will beat you on his 10 year old TV. Truth.
> The right tools "help" but skill is what matters.
> 
> Same reason why after all these years of "advancements" in Mouse technology, Hardcore FPS ers are still hording 15 year old Microsoft intellimice.


Are you drunk?
I actually came here to get some advice on which mouse to buy, your rant or whatever is of no use for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979
> 
> I just got the new FM firmware and it seems pretty good, though I still need to test it more.


Are you able to compare the FM to one of the mice I listed? Especially a comparison with the Mionix Avior 7000 would be awesome since I find it being quite fancy while still meeting my criteria.


----------



## LegoFarmer

*What's your grip style?* Claw / hybrid
*What's your sensitivity?* ~45cm/360
*What's your maximum budget?* No opinion
*Do you want additional buttons?* They can be okay if they are actually easy to reach without changing grip. If recommended mice do not have them, that is perfectly fine.
*What games do you play?* CS:GO, Quake
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
*Other relevant information:* I like ambidextrous mice lately and have been looking at the G100s. Logitech's build quality has always been phenomenal for me. I currently have the G502 and despite the great sensor, the feel just doesn't work out for me. The weight is just bad and the grip is awkward for me. 18-18.5cm hands. I do not plan to use drivers, LoD isn't something I am overly picky about. No more than 2 CDs for sure, I like no more than 100g weight, non-braided cord, doesn't need a great finish.


----------



## YawMawn

What's your grip style? *Mostly tip + a bit of claw*
What's your sensitivity? *I just use the Windows Slider options so I really don't know the number :S Somewhere around 500 dpi maybe??*
What's your maximum budget? *Start around $100*
Do you want additional buttons? *No*
What games do you play? *Starcraft 2 / League of Legends*
Do you mind about prediction? *Preferably not*
The mouse I am currently using is the Logitech Darkfield Performance MX which weighs in at 150g and I would like to stay in that range. Wireless is not necessary. The size is more or less perfect.

To be honest, I'm quite happy with this mouse. I'm just starting to consider a mouse similar to this one but more oriented to MOBA / RTS gaming, if there is such a thing. This mouse doesn't do or not do anything that I find noticeably bad. I'm about to upgrade to a 1440p 144hz monitor and I figure I might as well grab a mouse oriented to that kind of interaction.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

@YawMawn you don't want to change the window slider. Leave it on the middle setting: mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization

Gaming mice and non-FPS games:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL

Are you drunk?
I actually came here to get some advice on which mouse to buy, your rant or whatever is of no use for me.
Are you able to compare the FM to one of the mice I listed? Especially a comparison with the Mionix Avior 7000 would be awesome since I find it being quite fancy while still meeting my criteria.[/QUOTE]
FK, AM, Avior7k are the ones I've tested. But Avior got a firmware update after I returned the mouse, and people said that update improved it.

But from all the mice I've tested, 3.0 is #1, FM is #2, DA 4g is #3, sensor-wise.


----------



## vivithemage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> You say claw but you mention g5 and g700 which work more towards a palm grip .


Yeah, but I don't palm them at all.


----------



## twerk

Can someone please recommend me a plain black mouse pad for my Naos 7000? I really liked the surface on my Roccat Taito but the build quality on it was trash, it fell apart after only a couple of months. Thanks!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Can someone please recommend me a plain black mouse pad for my Naos 7000? I really liked the surface on my Roccat Taito but the build quality on it was trash, it fell apart after only a couple of months. Thanks!


How large? Have you checked in local electronics stores?

Supermat can be found in black. I've also seen people recommend this one: http://www.pcgamingrace.com/collections/large-gaming-mouse-pads/products/glorious-large-heavy-gaming-mouse-mat


----------



## slayer621

*What's your grip style?* Mostly claw.
*What's your sensitivity?* 2300-2700 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* $100 USD
*Do you want additional buttons?* 2 side buttons would be nice. More buttons are acceptable too. I'm coming from a Naga so I can handle multiple buttons.
*What games do you play?* MMO's, single player RPG's, adventure, and some FPS but it's not my primary genre.
*Do you mind about prediction?* I think I would like to avoid it. I just want an accurate sensor without acceleration
*Other relevant information:*
I'm coming from a Naga, but I'm not necessarily looking for an MMO mouse. I'm not against them, but I'd prefer accuracy and performance over tons of buttons.
I really do not want an ambidextrous mouse. If I even once accidentally hit the buttons on the off side, it would kill the mouse for me.
If possible, I would like a mouse that does not require constantly running software. I'm sick of Razer Synapse taking up memory just to rebind some keys.
I've used the Mionix Naos 7000 and I like the software, but it's pretty hard to hold with anything but palm grip.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> How large? Have you checked in local electronics stores?
> 
> Supermat can be found in black. I've also seen people recommend this one: http://www.pcgamingrace.com/collections/large-gaming-mouse-pads/products/glorious-large-heavy-gaming-mouse-mat


I'll have to order online, Amazon UK preferably. Size doesn't really matter, I have a relatively high sensitivity so I don't need anything huge.


----------



## YawMawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> @YawMawn you don't want to change the window slider. Leave it on the middle setting: mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization.


Aight. I've come to realize that there is a lot more to know about mice than I thought. It turns out I'm using 7/11 in Windows so I'm pretty close. So the idea is that I should set 6/11 in Windows, change the CPI until it feels good, and then adjust each individual game from there?

Is it better to adjust the CPI through software or with a button of some sort right on the mouse? I uninstalled the Logitech software that came with my mouse because it was giving me grief. One of the buttons was mapped to switching between 3 different sensitivity profiles. I take it this is software CPI adjustment which is "bad" whereas I would want the "good" hardware adjustment option?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I'll have to order online, Amazon UK preferably. Size doesn't really matter, I have a relatively high sensitivity so I don't need anything huge.


Well they don't have the glorious or the supermat there, but you should be fine with any of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mousepad+&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Amousepad+
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YawMawn*
> 
> Aight. I've come to realize that there is a lot more to know about mice than I thought. It turns out I'm using 7/11 in Windows so I'm pretty close. So the idea is that I should set 6/11 in Windows, change the CPI until it feels good, and then adjust each individual game from there?


Yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YawMawn*
> 
> Is it better to adjust the CPI through software or with a button of some sort right on the mouse? I uninstalled the Logitech software that came with my mouse because it was giving me grief. One of the buttons was mapped to switching between 3 different sensitivity profiles. I take it this is software CPI adjustment which is "bad" whereas I would want the "good" hardware adjustment option?


No, that doesn't matter.

Though keep in mind that pre-3310 sensors had 1 specific CPI setting they performed best on.


----------



## thedogman

Can someone suggest some optical mice that will work with this grip. I guess its a palm grip, but I hold the mouse really far back so most of my palm rests on the pad. I am currently using the g502 but it is too narrow for this grip and causes my hand to cramp.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone suggest some optical mice that will work with this grip. I guess its a palm grip, but I hold the mouse really far back so most of my palm rests on the pad. I am currently using the g502 but it is too narrow for this grip and causes my hand to cramp.


Same with me.

My current recomendations: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979

My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd


----------



## jubi

@MaximilianKohler

Are the 3.0 of steelseries as good as the original 3.0?
Like this one
Or do they use different sensors?

Edit: There is another Intelli from China here. Has anyone ever tested if this is the real deal? It seems kind of fishy due to the price and the huge avaivability.

I am not quite sure about the FM since some people reported bad tracking and bad quality. Also it's not avaivable in my area.
The Fk1 has huano switches, which i porbably won't like due to the activation needed.
I am worried the avior will feel bad due to the Buttons on the right side. (still, i favor this one so far)
And the Deathadder is from Razer (I know, not a rational reason, but it's just the look of it + bad experience with their products. But it's mostly the look.. tribals? seriously?)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

They are the same unless it's a fake. Some people have reported getting fakes.


----------



## overclockerjames

my $99 gaming mouse


----------



## YawMawn

Does the G303 have the speed switch for the mouse-wheel? It's surprisingly nice to be able to scroll through 5,000 lines of data in one second with a single powerful flick of the wheel (instead of having 30 seconds of _grindgrindgrindgrindgrindgrindgrind_)


----------



## jubi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> They are the same unless it's a fake. Some people have reported getting fakes.


Is there any difference in the perfmormance of the different microsoft mice that use the MLT04 or why is it you recommend only the intelli 3.0? I ask this because the WMO 1.1As are quite cheap and avaivable, at least in germany. (The ebaylinks I posted before are in china)
I want to know the feel of it, now that I watched your videos









After some research I might as well just buy a zowie and if I don't like the feel of the switches, just swap them to omroms. Or building a kinzuadder. Not quite sure though if this is a good idea since I have never done something like this.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jubi*
> 
> Is there any difference in the perfmormance of the different microsoft mice that use the MLT04 or why is it you only recommend only the intelli 3.0? I ask this because the WMO 1.1As are quite cheap and avaivable, at least in germany.


They should be the same, I just had less than good experience with my 1.1, but it might have been the 6kfps version, and I was having issues with the grip too.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Can someone suggest some optical mice that will work with this grip. I guess its a palm grip, but I hold the mouse really far back so most of my palm rests on the pad. I am currently using the g502 but it is too narrow for this grip and causes my hand to cramp.


Mionix Naos 7000 will work perfectly.
It's a very nice palm grip where the palm (or most of it) still lays on the pad.

I was searching for a palm grip mouse and considered the Naos 7000 but returned it because I DON'T want any palm part on the pad. If I wanted that would be my dream shape.


----------



## davewnelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Can someone suggest some optical mice that will work with this grip. I guess its a palm grip, but I hold the mouse really far back so most of my palm rests on the pad. I am currently using the g502 but it is too narrow for this grip and causes my hand to cramp.


I too wish my G502 was a tad larger. Here's a list of some of the top mice and their respective 'estimated volumes'. Note the size, volume and height numbers are larger on the wireless mice at the bottom. Although they aren't as good to FPS game with they meet requirements for most other game types.


----------



## mitavreb

My rule of thumb for a good palm grip mouse, it mush have height and width. Height is to support the fingers and width to support the palm.

There seems to be too many mice that are low in height.


----------



## EndHere

*What's your grip style?*
Completely fingertip grip.

*What's your sensitivity?*
800 dpi.

*What's your maximum budget?*
Don't want to spend more than $70.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't make the mouse uncomfortable.

*What games do you play?*
Primarily League and osu, so lots and lots of clicking for long periods of time.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction.

*Other relevant information:*
I hear ambidextrous shaped mice are best for fingertip grippers. Looking for something lightweight, a non-intrusive cord, flawless sensor, good coating (my hands slide around a lot on my g400s, so definitely something different).


----------



## ReniroVR

Hi Guys

Hoping you can help - I'm currently using a Razer Mamba, which I love, but which is causing hand pain - specifically on the pinky and ringfinger. I tested with a palm grip mouse that was lying around and this seems to alleviate the problem, but its buttons are crap, so now looking to buy one.

EDIT: Made titles bold

*What's your grip style?*
Want to switch back to palm grip. Currently halfway between palm and claw I think. Moderately large hands.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Edit: 800 - 1800 DPI

*What's your maximum budget?*
not very fussed $30 - $180

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Two extra is fine.

*What games do you play?*
Primary Starcraft 2. Other games and FPS only casually.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I'm not sure. Whatever is better for RTS and MOBA I guess.

*Other relevant information:*
Wireless is nice as the cables can be really annoying. Anything that alleviates hand strain is a plus. Preferably not too heavy.

Previously used some of the logitec mice with reasonable success, although the old G5 was just a sliver too big. A friend recommended the RAT9, so will look that up on the forum.

*Summary:* Looking for a palm grip mouse to play Starcraft 2.


----------



## KGPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jubi*
> 
> Are you drunk?
> I actually came here to get some advice on which mouse to buy, your rant or whatever is of no use for me.
> Are you able to compare the FM to one of the mice I listed? Especially a comparison with the Mionix Avior 7000 would be awesome since I find it being quite fancy while still meeting my criteria.


Well your only requirement seemed to be a "mouse that is not so cheap". So buy the most expensive mouse you can then. A Madcats R.A.T hey, those are fancy!


----------



## jubi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KGPrime*
> 
> Well your only requirement seemed to be a "mouse that is not so cheap". So buy the most expensive mouse you can then. A Madcats R.A.T hey, those are fancy!


I meant cheaply made, like my kinzu v2.
It's buttons activation point wore off really quick and the mousewheel activates itself from time to time.

Also, I must admitt: I really do like a mice that look nice, like the Avior, although I would never buy a mouse soley by it's looks.


----------



## KGPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jubi*
> 
> I meant cheaply made, like my kinzu v2.
> It's buttons activation point wore off really quick and the mousewheel activates itself from time to time.
> 
> Also, I must admitt: I really do like a mice that look nice, like the Avior, although I would never buy a mouse soley by it's looks.


Last two weeks i have looked at just about every single mouse made in the world that can be found on the web, even ones sold overseas. Verdict. They almost all use Omicron switches, from super cheap budget mice to 100+ mice. There are a number of sensors used, but a lot of them are the same or variants of them. The literal truth is, most mice are basically the same. The difference being the design. Whatever feels comfortable to you, and in general if you play fps and or hate acceleration, use an optical mouse. Laser mice are just fine for any average user. You can pay 100+ dollars for a mouse and it will for all things being equal have the exact probability of failure rate ans a cheapo mouse. As i've touted already on this forum, the mouse i have cost 10 dollars. It uses blue track, or some variant of that, or maybe even just a blue led ( i've seen it advertised as blue track, i don't believe it), however it's the best tracking mouse ive used in all my years years, bar none. It's only 1600 dpi, and i really wish it was 2000 because it is perfect, but other than that it has already lasted longer than a countless wave of people who have bought Razer or Madcats Saitek products costing up to 10x more.

People should buy what they want, if it floats your boat then be happy. But from my research price makes about zero difference in whether it will last or not. I was also looking at the design of Omicron switches, and they really seem like a ridiculous design. And every one that goes into a mouse it's not like it's tested, they throw these things together in Chinese sweat shops by the thousands, every single mouse no matter the price has equal chance to fail in days months or many years. Luck of the draw really. That's why i buy cheap mice. Well i would buy an expensive mouse if it was the only one that fit my hand, and that would be the only reason, being it was the only thing i could stand to use. Luckily that one and only mouse available in the world that i find comfortable ( Dimensions alone and a picture is all i need to know for fact if it's not going to work for me) but luck me it cost 10 dollars. I bought 3 of them, 30 bucks as they will probably disapear soon, if one breaks no big whoop, i already got 10 dollars use out this one so far. Also less moving parts or fancy features, better chance of it not breaking.

Anyway, that's my 2c sorry, i just get annoyed at the crap made today, I basically think most everything is junk lol. Because it really is compared to 10-20+ years ago. I mean we have appliances in the house that are like 60 years old that still work.


----------



## ReniroVR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ReniroVR*
> 
> Hi Guys
> 
> Hoping you can help - I'm currently using a Razer Mamba, which I love, but which is causing hand pain - specifically on the pinky and ringfinger. I tested with a palm grip mouse that was lying around and this seems to alleviate the problem, but its buttons are crap, so now looking to buy one.
> 
> EDIT: Made titles bold
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Want to switch back to palm grip. Currently halfway between palm and claw I think. Moderately large hands.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Edit: 800 - 1800 DPI
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> not very fussed $30 - $180
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Two extra is fine.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Primary Starcraft 2. Other games and FPS only casually.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I'm not sure. Whatever is better for RTS and MOBA I guess.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Wireless is nice as the cables can be really annoying. Anything that alleviates hand strain is a plus. Preferably not too heavy.
> 
> Previously used some of the logitec mice with reasonable success, although the old G5 was just a sliver too big. A friend recommended the RAT9, so will look that up on the forum.
> 
> *Summary:* Looking for a palm grip mouse to play Starcraft 2.


Was looking at the R.A.T.3 as well, but some threads mention sensor issues. Should I just get a Logitecg G400 or G402 perhaps? I won't actually be able to try the mouse before buying or return it, and will be stuck with what I buy (where I live). That's why the RAT3/5/9 is appealing, because I can at least adjust the fit.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ReniroVR*
> 
> Was looking at the R.A.T.3 as well, but some threads mention sensor issues. Should I just get a Logitecg G400 or G402 perhaps? I won't actually be able to try the mouse before buying or return it, and will be stuck with what I buy (where I live). That's why the RAT3/5/9 is appealing, because I can at least adjust the fit.


The R.A.T.3 reportedly has a tracking speed limit of 2.5 m/s, and I am doubting that MadCatz will change that...


----------



## ReniroVR

So after some more searching, I'm probably going with a Logitech G400s and a Goliathus Speed Edition mouse pad, to make sure I have a suitable surface for it to track on.

I felt the G400s and it's pretty comfortable (no 402 in stock).

Any thoughts / comments on the above combination for someone with a palm grip wanting to play Starcraft 2 on low DPI ( 400 - 1600)?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ReniroVR*
> 
> So after some more searching, I'm probably going with a Logitech G400s and a Goliathus Speed Edition mouse pad, to make sure I have a suitable surface for it to track on.
> 
> I felt the G400s and it's pretty comfortable (no 402 in stock).
> 
> Any thoughts / comments on the above combination for someone with a palm grip wanting to play Starcraft 2 on low DPI ( 400 - 1600)?


Gaming mice and non-FPS games:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL

You'll get no extra performance benefits from buying an expensive "gaming" mousepad. And actually the logos on them can negatively affect tracking on some mice. 400DPI is low. 800 is fairly medium I guess. Over 1200 is high.


----------



## ReniroVR

Thanks for that. Some good info in those links (and other links in them).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Gaming mice and non-FPS games:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL


I'm stuck on palm grip unfortunately as the reason I'm buying a new mouse is hand pain from fingertip grip (tested with a palm grip mouse and it's cleared up.)
Any SC2 players around that also use palm grip, and with what mice?
Quote:


> You'll get no extra performance benefits from buying an expensive "gaming" mousepad. And actually the logos on them can negatively affect tracking on some mice. 400DPI is low. 800 is fairly medium I guess. Over 1200 is high.


I meant low compared to the several thousand DPI that some newer mice support, but I see your point. I'm playing at 800 now.

I'm testing the G400s on the Goliathus speed and at first it tracked beutifully, but then last night there were two cases where it skipped up the screen unexpectedly. Any specific type of mousepad that works well with optical sensors or the G400s specifically? The speed edition feels good at the DPI I'm running so far.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

It varies from mouse to mouse. Plain black colored is typically the best, but I've heard of instances where mice had issues on the qck so...


----------



## chozandrias76

What's your grip style?
Palm Grip
What's your sensitivity?
600DPI
What's your maximum budget?
65$
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes
What games do you play?
Dota 2, Minecraft, non-competitive FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
No Idea ( Currently own a RAT 7 and it is decent)
Other relevant information:
I generally like matte finishes and hate wireless mice.


----------



## ReniroVR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chozandrias76*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm Grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 600DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> 65$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> What games do you play?
> Dota 2, Minecraft, non-competitive FPS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No Idea ( Currently own a RAT 7 and it is decent)
> Other relevant information:
> I generally like matte finishes and hate wireless mice.


Others may be able to give your more options, but I just bought the Logitech G400s to meet the same requirements. For me it was Starcraft 2, and non competitive FPS.

Comfortable for palm grip (might vary from person to person though)
Should fit your budget
Has extra programmable buttons
Pretty good optical sensor


----------



## geded12

What's your grip style?
Claw
What's your sensitivity?
800
What's your maximum budget?
There is none.
Do you want additional buttons?
Mouse 4 & 5
What games do you play?
CS:GO / LoL
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction
Other relevant information:

Just got the Zowie FK2, and I am right handed, and really dislike the ambidextrous mice (the buttons on the right side Mouse 4&5). Also don't like the stiff switches because I always used the G500 & G700(S) and they use the Romer switches. So I want lighter switches Romer>>>>Huano. Love the liftoff distance on the FK2 and the overal shape. And no mouse predictions either please.

It would been my mouse if it would have Romer switches and not the extra side buttons.

Also dislike really obnouxious lights which gets in my peripheral vision.


----------



## treav0r

1.) What's your grip style?
Claw grip
2.) What's your sensitivity?
400dpi, 2.4 in csgo
3.) What's your maximum budget?
100€
4.) Do you want additional buttons?
i need 2 thumb buttons
5.) What games do you play?
cs:go, bf3
6.) Do you mind about prediction?
yes, i dont want prediciton or accel
7.) Other relevant information:
i allready have/had:
Logitech G100s, G302, G400, G402, G502, G700
Zowie FK 2013, FK1, EC2-A
Steelseries Sensei Raw, Rival
Razer Deathadder 2013, Chroma

If i could, i would order a Finalmouse, but it is impossible to get without a credit/debit card


----------



## DeerDance

Looking for a mouse with a light wheel click press, no wobbly feel or a one with a high quality buttons behind the wheel that can be rebind to middle click

but first the questions

What's your grip style?
fingertip, occasionally going in to claw
What's your sensitivity?
high I guess, I am not set on 400/800/... dpi if thats the concern
What's your maximum budget?
$100, but that does not mean that it needs to be higher end
Do you want additional buttons?
yes, would be nice
What games do you play?
main purpose is general desktop use where it should feel great, but for games FPS, Strategies, RPGs,..
Do you mind about prediction?
not really
Other relevant information:
not-wireless I dont want to deal with batteries, would heavily prefer non-glossy finish, fingertip means I prefer bit smaller but I am scared of too thin mice that might give me cramps after a while, settings saved on the mouse would be nice because I am on linux as main OS and setting stuff in window and having it work exactly like that on linux is a nice feature which I experienced when I was testing mionix naos 7000, but its not necessary as software can take care of that

Bought zowie EC2-A
I find it to be good shape for me, great surface finish but the wheel led light that cant be turned off and hard to press wheel is a deal breaker for me.

Led I could disable or dim if I would be willing to void the warranty, but theres still the issue of the hard to press middle click.
I use it constantly for closing tabs, opening tabs on the background, almost being equally used as the left click...

Previously I used mx518 for 4 years and its terrible wheel(much worse wobble, hardiness and deeply set) was easily dodged by binding nearer dpi button to act as a middle click button.

Can anyone comment on steelseries, razers, corsairs, roccat, logitech, cooler master and their wheel clicks?

I got a suspicion that higher tier mice tend to go for heavier clicks, so maybe if theres some alternative with buttons behind the wheel which I will be able to rebind to do the middle click, but those buttons should be of higher quality with easy activation and good tactile feel, not something cheap that travels for half and hour down on press and needs to go really deep to make the click.

Thanks


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeerDance*
> 
> Looking for a mouse with a light wheel click press, no wobbly feel or a one with a high quality buttons behind the wheel that can be rebind to middle click
> 
> but first the questions
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip, occasionally going in to claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> high I guess, I am not set on 400/800/... dpi if thats the concern
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100, but that does not mean that it needs to be higher end
> Do you want additional buttons?
> yes, would be nice
> What games do you play?
> main purpose is general desktop use where it should feel great, but for games FPS, Strategies, RPGs,..
> Do you mind about prediction?
> not really
> Other relevant information:
> not-wireless I dont want to deal with batteries, would heavily prefer non-glossy finish, fingertip means I prefer bit smaller but I am scared of too thin mice that might give me cramps after a while, settings saved on the mouse would be nice because I am on linux as main OS and setting stuff in window and having it work exactly like that on linux is a nice feature which I experienced when I was testing mionix naos 7000, but its not necessary as software can take care of that
> 
> Bought zowie EC2-A
> I find it to be good shape for me, great surface finish but the wheel led light that cant be turned off and hard to press wheel is a deal breaker for me.
> 
> Led I could disable or dim if I would be willing to void the warranty, but theres still the issue of the hard to press middle click.
> I use it constantly for closing tabs, opening tabs on the background, almost being equally used as the left click...
> 
> Previously I used mx518 for 4 years and its terrible wheel(much worse wobble, hardiness and deeply set) was easily dodged by binding nearer dpi button to act as a middle click button.
> 
> Can anyone comment on steelseries, razers, corsairs, roccat, logitech, cooler master and their wheel clicks?
> 
> I got a suspicion that higher tier mice tend to go for heavier clicks, so maybe if theres some alternative with buttons behind the wheel which I will be able to rebind to do the middle click, but those buttons should be of higher quality with easy activation and good tactile feel, not something cheap that travels for half and hour down on press and needs to go really deep to make the click.
> 
> Thanks


Logitech G303 sounds like it would fit


----------



## DeerDance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> Logitech G303 sounds like it would fit


Ordered CM Storm Xornet, will see


----------



## EndHere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EndHere*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Completely fingertip grip.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 800 dpi.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Don't want to spend more than $70.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't make the mouse uncomfortable.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Primarily League and osu, so lots and lots of clicking for long periods of time.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I hear ambidextrous shaped mice are best for fingertip grippers. Looking for something lightweight, a non-intrusive cord, flawless sensor, good coating (my hands slide around a lot on my g400s, so definitely something different).


Still looking for some advice.


----------



## Melan

G302/303


----------



## MasterBash

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
1800
What's your maximum budget?
None.
Do you want additional buttons?
Mouse 4 & 5
What games do you play?
LoL
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction
Other relevant information:
He is currently using a Razer Naga and he likes smaller mice. He is having problems with his mouse not working all the time and the Z-Axis bug.

He is also looking for a mousepad. I have no idea what he should be using with that high of DPI. He wants something popular available in online stores like amazon, ncix, etc. No Artisan.


----------



## byfar

What's your grip style? - Claw, but not an extreme version of it. More of a palm-claw hybrid I suppose.

What's your sensitivity? Usually 600-1200 DPI. Lately I've been using 800dpi.

What's your maximum budget? 80 USD

Do you want additional buttons? They aren't a must have, but standard two side buttons is nice.

What games do you play? League of Legends mainly, CS 1.6, and a little SC2.

Do you mind about prediction? As long as it's not severe.

Other relevant information: I've got pretty big hands, a bit over 8inches. My two favorite mice I've ever tried are the Logitech G9x, and the Razer Diamondback 3g. I really hope these are remade soon. I don't really like big ergonomic mice (g500, Deathadder, etc). Would like it to be on the lighter side and prefer braidless cords, but I can make do with braided. Glossy is a no, as my hands sweat during long gaming sessions. Clicks would ideally be light and easily spammable, I didn't like the huano's on my friends ec1 mouse(though I heard newer versions aren't as stiff?). I don't mind about drivers, software, or memory. All are fine with or without, as long I can be in the 600-1200 DPI range, and 500-1000 polling. Would really appreciate some suggestions, sorry if it's a lot, but I know you guys are experts with a wealth of knowledge on this kind of thing







. Thanks for reading.


----------



## marcelon1

*What's your grip style?* Palm Grip
*What's your sensitivity?* Windows 6/11 EPP Off - 800dpi @ 1.75 in-game - 1000hz polling rate
*What's your maximum budget?* 55$usd
*Do you want additional buttons?* No
*What games do you play?* Only CSGO
*Do you mind about prediction?* Please 0 acceleration, please 0 prediction!!
*Other relevant information:* I have medium hands.

This mouse's are very UNCOMFORTABLE for me (im tested):

G400s
SteelSeries Kana


----------



## YawMawn

Does anyone have experience with going from having acceleration to not having acceleration? It's a default option in Windows and I never realized until recently what "Enhance Pointer Precision" even meant.

I've been trying a little bit without and I have no idea how people can be accurate to within a few pixels while having the DPI needed to cover the screen quickly. It was challenging enough to even get my cursor back onto the sensitivity slider.


----------



## guywithtwohands

What's your grip style?
*Mostly palm grip.*
What's your sensitivity?
*Default Windows 6/11, 1800 dpi as I use a 1440p monitor and can't be bothered to install the software for my G400 mouse for further configuration. I think the lower step at 800 dpi is fine for 1080p.*
What's your maximum budget?
*Dunno, but let's go with $80 since that seems to be the MSRP for a lot of the high-end mice.*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Aside from back/forward (and DPI switching I suppose) - not really*
What games do you play?
*Large variety.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*I would prefer a "flawless" sensor with no acceleration nor prediction.*
Other relevant information:
*I was gonna replace my G400 with the G400s as the right mouse button has started acting weird sometimes. It's not a switch issue, but seems to be the actual shell. I already tried cleaning it. The G400s is almost impossible to find at a decent price, but I would also like to try something new. My hand is ~19 cm from wrist to middle finger.

I'm skeptical about the G402 and G502, but have warmed up to the thought of trying one of them. The "sniper"-button on the side looks really inconveniently placed, though.
I'm very close to ordering the Mionix Naos 7000 as it seems to offer most of what I want. I'm just worried it's not built very well (some people say it feels "cheap"). Not to mention that I'm not so sure how I feel about the whole thing being covered in soft-touch rubber. I'd imagine it would end up not being very nice over time as it starts getting dirty? Also worried about it peeling off.
I've been with Logitech for as long as I can remember and they've always been solid for many years.
I would prefer a mouse that lets me configure it using the software, transfer the profile to the mouse's on-board memory and then never have to worry about the software again (meaning I can uninstall it).
*


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guywithtwohands*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Mostly palm grip.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Default Windows 6/11, 1800 dpi as I use a 1440p monitor and can't be bothered to install the software for my G400 mouse for further configuration. I think the lower step at 800 dpi is fine for 1080p.*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *Dunno, but let's go with $80 since that seems to be the MSRP for a lot of the high-end mice.*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Aside from back/forward (and DPI switching I suppose) - not really*
> What games do you play?
> *Large variety.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *I would prefer a "flawless" sensor with no acceleration nor prediction.*
> Other relevant information:
> *I was gonna replace my G400 with the G400s as the right mouse button has started acting weird sometimes. It's not a switch issue, but seems to be the actual shell. I already tried cleaning it. The G400s is almost impossible to find at a decent price, but I would also like to try something new. My hand is ~19 cm from wrist to middle finger.
> 
> I'm skeptical about the G402 and G502, but have warmed up to the thought of trying one of them. The "sniper"-button on the side looks really inconveniently placed, though.
> I'm very close to ordering the Mionix Naos 7000 as it seems to offer most of what I want. I'm just worried it's not built very well (some people say it feels "cheap"). Not to mention that I'm not so sure how I feel about the whole thing being covered in soft-touch rubber. I'd imagine it would end up not being very nice over time as it starts getting dirty? Also worried about it peeling off.
> I've been with Logitech for as long as I can remember and they've always been solid for many years.
> I would prefer a mouse that lets me configure it using the software, transfer the profile to the mouse's on-board memory and then never have to worry about the software again (meaning I can uninstall it).
> *


Zowie EC1-A. There is a 1600 DPI step, but no 1800. Yes, Zowie uses huano switches, but the ones in the EC1/2-A feel like omrons tbh.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1800
> What's your maximum budget?
> None.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mouse 4 & 5
> What games do you play?
> LoL
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction
> Other relevant information:
> He is currently using a Razer Naga and he likes smaller mice. He is having problems with his mouse not working all the time and the Z-Axis bug.
> 
> He is also looking for a mousepad. I have no idea what he should be using with that high of DPI. He wants something popular available in online stores like amazon, ncix, etc. No Artisan.


Bump. Mouse died, he needs a new one asap.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EndHere*
> 
> Still looking for some advice.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1800
> What's your maximum budget?
> None.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mouse 4 & 5
> What games do you play?
> LoL
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction
> Other relevant information:
> He is currently using a Razer Naga and he likes smaller mice. He is having problems with his mouse not working all the time and the Z-Axis bug.
> 
> He is also looking for a mousepad. I have no idea what he should be using with that high of DPI. He wants something popular available in online stores like amazon, ncix, etc. No Artisan.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



What's your grip style? - Claw, but not an extreme version of it. More of a palm-claw hybrid I suppose.

What's your sensitivity? Usually 600-1200 DPI. Lately I've been using 800dpi.

What's your maximum budget? 80 USD

Do you want additional buttons? They aren't a must have, but standard two side buttons is nice.

What games do you play? League of Legends mainly, CS 1.6, and a little SC2.

Do you mind about prediction? As long as it's not severe.

Other relevant information: I've got pretty big hands, a bit over 8inches. My two favorite mice I've ever tried are the Logitech G9x, and the Razer Diamondback 3g. I really hope these are remade soon. I don't really like big ergonomic mice (g500, Deathadder, etc). Would like it to be on the lighter side and prefer braidless cords, but I can make do with braided. Glossy is a no, as my hands sweat during long gaming sessions. Clicks would ideally be light and easily spammable, I didn't like the huano's on my friends ec1 mouse(though I heard newer versions aren't as stiff?). I don't mind about drivers, software, or memory. All are fine with or without, as long I can be in the 600-1200 DPI range, and 500-1000 polling. Would really appreciate some suggestions, sorry if it's a lot, but I know you guys are experts with a wealth of knowledge on this kind of thing







. Thanks for reading.


[/QUOTE]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marcelon1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Palm Grip
> *What's your sensitivity?* Windows 6/11 EPP Off - 800dpi @ 1.75 in-game - 1000hz polling rate
> *What's your maximum budget?* 55$usd
> *Do you want additional buttons?* No
> *What games do you play?* Only CSGO
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Please 0 acceleration, please 0 prediction!!
> *Other relevant information:* I have medium hands.
> 
> This mouse's are very UNCOMFORTABLE for me (im tested):
> 
> G400s
> SteelSeries Kana


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YawMawn*
> 
> Does anyone have experience with going from having acceleration to not having acceleration? It's a default option in Windows and I never realized until recently what "Enhance Pointer Precision" even meant.
> 
> I've been trying a little bit without and I have no idea how people can be accurate to within a few pixels while having the DPI needed to cover the screen quickly. It was challenging enough to even get my cursor back onto the sensitivity slider.


Pretty sure the majority of us used that before finding out it was better not to. It's just something you're going to have to take time getting used to. You're going to have to progressively lower your DPI till you get comfortable with a setting somewhere at or below 1200. Most knowledgeable/high-level gamers use 400-1200 depending on what game they're playing. It's also why gaming mousepads are usually quite large.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guywithtwohands*
> 
> *I would prefer a "flawless" sensor with no acceleration nor prediction.*


No such thing as a flawless sensor. The "flawless sensor" lists out there are based on misinformation and ignorance.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/


I am aware for moba, weight plays a big role, but I am not going to tell him to buy a random Dell mouse, just because its a moba. He still wants the best mouse out there to fit his criteria. What if he decide to play a fps game? Buy another mouse? Gaming mice are often more responsive, which is very very important in moba's despite some of them not being very very accurate.

About fingertip, a few pro players definitely use palm grip in mobas, but it depends on their mouse of choice. Weight is the same - some people play with heavy mice. Its not ideal, but they are used to it and they still play at the highest level with it.

If thats what they are used to, then they will perform the best that way.

I think getting all the advantages you can on your side is a good thing, so if I had a choice between lets say a $20 Dell mouse with the exact same shape as the g303 or the g303 itself (I dont mind the shape), I would go for the g303.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Gaming mice are often more responsive


In what way?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> $20 Dell mouse with the exact same shape as the g303 or the g303 itself (I dont mind the shape), I would go for the g303.


What benefits are you suggesting the 303 would provide?


----------



## marcelon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2xm4k2/gaming_mice_and_nonfps_games/%5B/URL
> Pretty sure the majority of us used that before finding out it was better not to. It's just something you're going to have to take time getting used to. You're going to have to progressively lower your DPI till you get comfortable with a setting somewhere at or below 1200. Most knowledgeable/high-level gamers use 400-1200 depending on what game they're playing. It's also why gaming mousepads are usually quite large.
> No such thing as a flawless sensor. The "flawless sensor" lists out there are based on misinformation and ignorance.


Thanks for reply my friend!

Microsoft Mouse 1.1 or 3.0 = 125 hz

125hz = Very Bad for me :S


----------



## JaH FeRgO

What's your grip style? Hybrid claw and fingertip most of the time
What's your sensitivity? 700 DPI still figuring out IG sensitivity
What's your maximum budget? NZD60
Do you want additional buttons? Only one or 2
What games do you play? CSGO as a dedicated AWPer
Do you mind about prediction? Not really
Other relevant information: It should be light but with enough friction to stop itself in a flick shot.
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I currently have a G502 mouse which I find heavy and fatiguing to use for long periods of AWPing. Also, I have sweaty palms. I have been thinking of the Mionix Nash 7000, which I like for the 4th and 5th fnger rest, another factor. I don't like having my 4th and 5th fingers gripping the side in a cramped position. Thanks!


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In what way?
> What benefits are you suggesting the 303 would provide?


Polling rate, button latency, sensor without "smoothing". Those are important in mobas... Anything that has to do with response time/reaction time. I am 100% sure those things are not looked into in any non-gaming mice or "random mice".

As for the g303 over a random Dell mouse... It doesnt matter if targets are bigger in mobas, the sensor will :

- No Smoothing (very important in any competitive games)
- Low latency buttons (same as above)
- No prediction (preference mostly, I like not having prediction)
- Better accuracy (It doesn't matter if LoL has bigger targets, fact is, more accuracy is always better)
- Higher malfunction speed (random mice are usually very very low IPS)

So, although a game like LoL doesnt really need as much accuracy when it comes to sensor because the targets are bigger, response time does make a huge difference.

Plus, even if some people play mobas as their main game, it doesnt mean they dont play anything else when they feel like it. When I wait for my 10 mins ranked queue, I pop up CS:GO at times.

I mean, why not buy the best mouse if someone has the money for it? So what if they decide to move on to another game that requires a better mouse, do they throw it away and buy a better one? I dont agree with good gaming mice being a waste for mobas. All the advantages you can get, the better. It wont make you play better, but a better mouse sensor will simply be more accurate and more responsive... all else equal... whether or not it actually does make a difference is irrevelant, but it doesnt change the fact that there are only upsides of using the best mouse over a random mouse. You dont even need the latest and greatest mouse to play CS competitive. Same applies to using an amazing mouse for LoL. A better mouse is simply better, there can only be advantages.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Polling rate, button latency, sensor without "smoothing". Those are important in mobas... Anything that has to do with response time/reaction time. I am 100% sure those things are not looked into in any non-gaming mice or "random mice".


The 3366 is definitely not "smoothing" free. Even by Logitech's own definition of smoothing.

Do you know that non-gaming mice have higher button latency, prediction/correction, and still run at 125hz?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> - Better accuracy (It doesn't matter if LoL has bigger targets, fact is, more accuracy is always better)


Like I said in the link, gaming mice will not necessarily give you this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> - Higher malfunction speed (random mice are usually very very low IPS)


Malfunction speed is pretty much completely irrelevant for 2D games, even if you're using 400dpi. You'd likely have to lower the windows slider to get to the point where you'd be moving the mouse fast enough to make it malfunction.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> So, although a game like LoL doesnt really need as much accuracy when it comes to sensor because the targets are bigger, response time does make a huge difference.


Depends what level of response you're talking about. Most mice measured are under 15ms: http://cdn.overclock.net/9/98/9825c1e0_inputlagmouses.png

You might not be able to detect anything close to that: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1134

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I mean, why not buy the best mouse if someone has the money for it? So what if they decide to move on to another game that requires a better mouse, do they throw it away and buy a better one? I dont agree with good gaming mice being a waste for mobas. All the advantages you can get, the better.


Well the problem right now is that the best mouse for FPS games is not good for 2D games, and the best mice for 2D games aren't great for FPS games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> It wont make you play better, but you will be sure the mouse you are using wont cause any problems.


A good mouse could definitely improve your play in any game. I just haven't seen anything showing that gaming mice perform better than non-gaming mice in 2D environments. And in my experience a well performing gaming mouse sensor is very rare.

A lot of people have complained about the 303's shape btw.


----------



## MasterBash

I dont know what the response time and button latency are in a non-gaming mice, but I do know some are definitely running at 125hz, as I've to use a few for school work and other stuff when I use their computers. They were cheap and also had extremely low IPS. Even in LoL, you can definitely reach 0.5/m easily. Its not hard. Those are not suited for gaming and I am sure there are many more.

About the response time, its not about noticing it, its about eliminating it. Latency is a bad thing... The less is better. Like lets say you have 10ms from the server or 0ms on LAN (lets assume its 100% stable), LAN is 10ms faster, so its better. You dont have to notice it, its there. Same goes for mouse buttons. The lower, the better.

Isnt there 3 people from C9 using the g303 in cs:go? It is also used in LoL. I think it is fine for both. There are probably more pro players using that mouse in cs:go, but I havent looked it up. Some LoL pro players use very heavy mice and they do great with it. Someone can still play at the highest level if they use a moba mouse in a fps game and vice-versa.

When I said it wont make you play better, I was talking about decision making, the time your brain takes to react and stuff like that. Sure, the shape can make it so you play better or worse, but all things equal, the mouse with the better sensor will have less flaws, I dont think it makes you "play better", I think it will have more consistent resultats, which might give you better score, without necessary playing better.

About gaming sensor vs non-gaming sensor, its all speculations, but tests should be done. The non-gaming mice I have used were far worse than the worst gaming mice I've used. I have no doubt some non-gaming mice perform better than others, but how good compared to a gaming mice, I dont know. Also, its about finding out which one actually performs well out of so many random mice.

I am also not one of the people who complained about the g303's shape. I love it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Keep in mind they're getting paid to use those mice. Pros don't use their sponsor's products because they're the best.


----------



## naso

Hey guys! I'm looking to buy a new mouse soon and I thought this would be a great place to get some ideas. I've only used two mice in the last 10 years of gaming, and they've been stock microsoft intelli optical mice. The first intelli from back in the day lasted a lot longer than this new intili I got a couple of years back, and the new one was a lot bigger too. I'm looking for anything really, I don't know much about DPI and all that jazz, I just want something durable and reliable, but if there's something great out there that I've never had the opportunity to try, I'd give it a shot.

I hold my mice in the claw grip style so the bigness of the new intelli really threw me off at first, but I got used it it.

The games I play now a days are ARTS/ARPGs like dota 2, league of legends, diablo 3 and path of exile. I play a lot of first person shooters as well, counter strike, borderlands. I also spend time playing MMOs. So basically... everything.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> Hey guys! I'm looking to buy a new mouse soon and I thought this would be a great place to get some ideas. I've only used two mice in the last 10 years of gaming, and they've been stock microsoft intelli optical mice. The first intelli from back in the day lasted a lot longer than this new intili I got a couple of years back, and the new one was a lot bigger too. I'm looking for anything really, I don't know much about DPI and all that jazz, I just want something durable and reliable, but if there's something great out there that I've never had the opportunity to try, I'd give it a shot.
> 
> I hold my mice in the claw grip style so the bigness of the new intelli really threw me off at first, but I got used it it.
> 
> The games I play now a days are ARTS/ARPGs like dota 2, league of legends, diablo 3 and path of exile. I play a lot of first person shooters as well, counter strike, borderlands. I also spend time playing MMOs. So basically... everything.


Steelseries kana v2 sounds like a great option if you've only used the intelli 1.1 for the past decade. Similar build format, although I believe is much lower in terms of the butt. I hear mixed reviews about it but some swear by it. Like any mouse on this forum, you will get positive and negative feedback so it's really a matter of how you adapt to the mouse. Take a look at takasta's post and YouTube video if you're interested


----------



## 7Teku

Does anyone have any experience with the Abyssus 2014? Really trying to find a small, lightweight mouse that tracks fast.

My favorite mouse is probably the G100s. I think it has the best shape ever created, but unfortunately I make it malfunction all of the time (400 cpi @ 1.1-1.4 sens).

Btw, G302/303 doesn't work because the shape is literally cancer.


----------



## YawMawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> the shape is literally cancer.


----------



## Twisted51

[*] What's your grip style? Fingertip
[*] What's your sensitivity? 3400
[*] What's your maximum budget? $100
[*] Do you want additional buttons? I need 1 thumb button (right handed)
[*] What games do you play? HotS, Dota, WoW, general gaming
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes, I want the 3310 Sensor
[*] Other relevant information: Weight is a mute point. I have large hands (I'm 6'3, 3" palm) I want a very durable thumb button for my PTT. My sensei's is getting all glitchy and its paint is wearing off. I like the sensei shape/feel, I've been using it for 3 years (glossy, mlg edition). I want to get the best possible sensor and build quality. It needs to be good with a purely fingertip grip. I like the idea of no software, similar to my Das keyboard. I'm really going back and forth between the FK1 and the KPM. I hear about quality issues in the FK1, namely its thumb buttons. But I also know it has no software, (the 3200 dpi is close enough to what i'm using), and its nearly the exact shape as my current mouse. I hear the KPM's sensor performs better, and is supposedly a solid fingertip mouse. Am also open to other suggestions.


----------



## JaH FeRgO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JaH FeRgO*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid claw and fingertip most of the time
> What's your sensitivity? 700 DPI still figuring out IG sensitivity
> What's your maximum budget? NZD60
> Do you want additional buttons? Only one or 2
> What games do you play? CSGO as a dedicated AWPer
> Do you mind about prediction? Not really
> Other relevant information: It should be light but with enough friction to stop itself in a flick shot.
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I currently have a G502 mouse which I find heavy and fatiguing to use for long periods of AWPing. Also, I have sweaty palms. I have been thinking of the Mionix Nash 7000, which I like for the 4th and 5th fnger rest, another factor. I don't like having my 4th and 5th fingers gripping the side in a cramped position. Thanks!


Could some mouse professional suggest something pls? XD


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with the Abyssus 2014? Really trying to find a small, lightweight mouse that tracks fast.
> 
> My favorite mouse is probably the G100s. I think it has the best shape ever created, but unfortunately I make it malfunction all of the time (400 cpi @ 1.1-1.4 sens).
> 
> Btw, G302/303 doesn't work because the shape is literally cancer.


Krait 2013 has a better sensor (4g) than the Abyssus (3.5g).

Look at the DA 3.5g vs 4g one: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

If you need side buttons like I do, I think the Aurora is your best bet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JaH FeRgO*
> 
> Could some mouse professional suggest something pls? XD


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Krait 2013 has a better sensor (4g) than the Abyssus (3.5g).
> 
> Look at the DA 3.5g vs 4g one: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> If you need side buttons like I do, I think the Aurora is your best bet.


I"m not sure if it's just rumors, but I've heard (and seen on the mice using flawless sensors google doc), that the Abyssus 2014 tracks over 1 m/s faster than the 3.5g Abyssus (5.48 m/s vs 4.15 m/s) despite using the same sensor. But I suppose I'll give the Krait and Aurora (again) a look.


----------



## el-jorge

What's your grip style?
Claw/ fingertip

What's your sensitivity?
Not sure, I don't think too high, I now have a Cyborg RAT MMO, DPI is mostly around 1600

What's your maximum budget?
EUR 150

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes a few

What games do you play?
The Witcher 3
Skyrim
Total War

Do you mind about prediction?
Not really

Other relevant information:
I do really like the shape and layout of my Cyborg RAT MMO. I dislike the laser sensor, the philips twineye 6400 dpi. I'm not fond of mice like the Logitech G600 where there is a block of buttons. I do really like the looks of the Logitech G602.
I have owned a Logitech G700, but that mouse is too big in hight, to much a palm grip mouse for my taste.


----------



## HITTI

What's your grip style? Fingertip!
What's your sensitivity? 1500
What's your maximum budget? 140USD
Do you want additional buttons? Nope
What games do you play? Cod1,cod2,cod4mw,codwaw. All fast paced fps games.
Do you mind about prediction? What is this?
Other relevant information: I bought a deathadder 2013 8 months ago, the wheel is going all crazy with my browser window scolls, webpages scroll up when u scroll down sometimes and most of the times.
Input anything else you want. I want something that maybe weights can be changed? Good laser. flexible like expandable maybe, not sure on this one though I seen some pictures, it might be for me or not. Wired.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Keep in mind they're getting paid to use those mice. Pros don't use their sponsor's products because they're the best.


This. ScreaM was sponsored by razer in epsilon, but now that he doesn't necessarily have to use their products, he's been using an IE 3.0 a lot.


----------



## Kermit879

What's your grip style? Claw with my g303 but I can adapt
What's your sensitivity? 1.95 ingame 400dpi CSgo
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 on the left side
What games do you play? CS: Go, GTA, BF, TF2, etc.
Do you mind about prediction? Want none
Other relevant information: Would like light clickers, ergonomic shape, Avago 3310 or better sensor, able to do 400dpi, soft touch paint or rubberized or something not slippery (I sweat on my hands a bit)would be nice but not that important I can stipple it other things are more important. I like the look of the EC2-a but don't like the paint/coating on the fk1 (i assume it's the same) and the heavy clickers. Using a Logitech g303 currently and it's perfect other than the shape. I also have a Finalmouse and KPM that aren't the best for me so don't recommend those.


----------



## iTzPrime

What's your grip style? Palm when playing fingertip when surfing
What's your sensitivity? 550 playing; 800 when surfing, 6/11 Windows
What's your maximum budget? unlimited
Do you want additional buttons? 2 Sidebutton for surfing
What games do you play? osu
Do you mind about prediction? -
Other relevant information: i have relativly small hands and i can palmgrip the logitech g502 easily, however it is a bit to heavy for me. and i dont really like the deathadder - to mushy clicks


----------



## Waleh

What's your grip style? I think it's called claw grip
What's your sensitivity? 400-800
What's your maximum budget? $60 CAD
Do you want additional buttons? 1 or 2 is fine
What games do you play? GTA5,Diablo,BF4 (wide variety)
Do you mind about prediction? -
Other relevant information: My hands are probably medium sized. I've seen the logitech G100S in store and it seems too small same with the Zowie FK1. I've been using a logitech MX300 for like 10 years. I like the shape of the Zowie EC1, Roccat KPM, deathadder. I think you get the idea of my shape preference.


----------



## Alastair

*1. What's your grip style?*: I am right handed and use a palm grip. Use a claw when browsing the desktop but that is like 5% of the time.
*2. What's your sensitivity?* As low as my current mouse can go which is 800DPI. I would probably go lower if I could
*3. What's your maximum budget?* Probably R600 to R800 (Around $70 US)
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*Yes. Thumb buttons are good for me.
*5. What games do you play?* Battlefield 4, Counter Strike GO, Dota 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Tomb Raider's (I have all of 'em) GTA V, Star Citizen, Company of Hero's, Dawn of War, Planetside 2, Crysis, Warface. Mass Effect etc. etc. You get the idea. multiple genre's etc, etc,
*6. Do you mind about prediction?* What is prediction? I see most people don't like it. Does my current Zalman ZM-GM1 with the Avargo 9500 Laser Stream have it? Will having no prediction make me more accurate in shooters? If it helps me I want it. If it hinders me I don't want it.
*7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
Yeah I currently play with a laser mouse. But I hear optical mice are more accurate. And since I don't need the high sensitivity a laser provides an optical will probably be cheaper and better for me.
Ambidextrous is a no no. I haven't tested many mice. However, Mionix Naus feels pretty good. I used to have an old Verbatim Rapier V2 as well and I liked that as well. My current Zalman could be more comfortable than it is but I have adapted and it has served me well for a number of years now. Roccat Kone XTD I also like but it's expensive and I would like a place to rest my ring and pinkie fingers.
I do like the ability to adapt the weight of my mouse to suit my taste. Currently i have 5 (I think they are 6g) weights in my mouse. So my mouse weighs at the moment a total of 115g.
Definitely braided cable.
I would like something with probably a rubbery finish so I do not loose grip of my mouse when things get intense and sweaty.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Krait 2013 has a better sensor (4g) than the Abyssus (3.5g).
> 
> Look at the DA 3.5g vs 4g one: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> If you need side buttons like I do, I think the Aurora is your best bet.


So I just tried Krait 2013 and Abyssus 2014 and well, the Krait is so thin it cramps my hand after 30 minutes and the Abyssus just doesn't track fast (< 3.5 m/s even though it says it can track >4 m/s). Looks like I'm ordering another Aurora (and G100s).


----------



## TechDookie

1. Whats your grip style?

I am right-handed and know too little to differentiate claw and palm grips.

2. Whats your sensitivity?

Have no idea but not extreme. Currently I'm using a standard Logitech wireless mouse. I don't need that high of a DPI.

3. Whats your maximum budget?

$35 but I want to preferably spend around $25.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

Not a big deal if there aren't any additional buttons but sure.

5. Do you mind prediction?

No idea what it is.

6. Additional information?

Sorry, but I'm not very experienced with mice and don't know much about different technical features.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

It matters what game(s) you play dookie. And hand size+thickness.


----------



## TechDookie

Ok, I will play Minecraft, TF2, CS GO, and probably GTA V when price drops.

My hand size is small I think. I'm pretty thin so I figure my hand is too.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TechDookie*
> 
> Ok, I will play Minecraft, TF2, CS GO, and probably GTA V when price drops.
> 
> My hand size is small I think. I'm pretty thin so I figure my hand is too.


G100s


----------



## MaximilianKohler

My friend prefers the FK1 to the g100s. You could consider the Aurora too.


----------



## auzcar

[*] What's your grip style? Claw
[*] What's your sensitivity? 400, 1.7 in CSGO
[*] What's your maximum budget? No maximum
[*] Do you want additional buttons? 2 thumb buttons (right handed)
[*] What games do you play? 90% CSGO, 10% other FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes, as flawless as possible please, 3090 and better is generally more than good enough though
[*] Other relevant information: Large hands. Main thing shapewise is that the right side can't be slanted, IE like the EC1/Rival/IE 3.0. This removes most erco mice from the equation, but there are exceptions like the G400 which I can grip fine, I don't like the lip on the left side though which sort of prevents my thumb dragging on the mousepad for added control.

Generally ambi mice is what works best for me, best shape I've ever used is the Xai/Sensei but I can't stand the laser. The FK1 is good but give me cramps due to the "narrowness" and lower height. I'm waiting for my ZA11 but I want to know my options if that doesn't work out. The ones that I've been looking at is the Aurora, G302/3 and the Finalmouse, are there any others I've missed and how do these mice compare to the FK1 sizewise? FK1 is the closest I've gotten to what I want atm.


----------



## Jeemil89

An optical sensei/xai would be nice







one can only dream


----------



## Alastair

1. What's your grip style?: I am right handed and use a palm grip. Use a claw when browsing the desktop but that is like 5% of the time.
2. What's your sensitivity? As low as my current mouse can go which is 800DPI. I would probably go lower if I could
3. What's your maximum budget? Probably R600 to R800 (Around $70 US)
4. Do you want additional buttons?Yes. Thumb buttons are good for me.
5. What games do you play? Battlefield 4, Counter Strike GO, Dota 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Tomb Raider's (I have all of 'em) GTA V, Star Citizen, Company of Hero's, Dawn of War, Planetside 2, Crysis, Warface. Mass Effect etc. etc. You get the idea. multiple genre's etc, etc,
6. Do you mind about prediction? What is prediction? I see most people don't like it. Does my current Zalman ZM-GM1 with the Avargo 9500 Laser Stream have it? Will having no prediction make me more accurate in shooters? If it helps me I want it. If it hinders me I don't want it.
7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Yeah I currently play with a laser mouse. But I hear optical mice are more accurate. And since I don't need the high sensitivity a laser provides an optical will probably be cheaper and better for me.
Ambidextrous is a no no. I haven't tested many mice. However, Mionix Naus feels pretty good. I used to have an old Verbatim Rapier V2 as well and I liked that as well. My current Zalman could be more comfortable than it is but I have adapted and it has served me well for a number of years now. Roccat Kone XTD I also like but it's expensive and I would like a place to rest my ring and pinkie fingers.
I do like the ability to adapt the weight of my mouse to suit my taste. Currently i have 5 (I think they are 6g) weights in my mouse. So my mouse weighs at the moment a total of 115g.
Definitely braided cable.
I would like something with probably a rubbery finish so I do not loose grip of my mouse when things get intense and sweaty.

*My mouse just broke so assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated!*


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?: I am right handed and use a palm grip. Use a claw when browsing the desktop but that is like 5% of the time.
> 2. What's your sensitivity? As low as my current mouse can go which is 800DPI. I would probably go lower if I could
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Probably R600 to R800 (Around $70 US)
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?Yes. Thumb buttons are good for me.
> 5. What games do you play? Battlefield 4, Counter Strike GO, Dota 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Tomb Raider's (I have all of 'em) GTA V, Star Citizen, Company of Hero's, Dawn of War, Planetside 2, Crysis, Warface. Mass Effect etc. etc. You get the idea. multiple genre's etc, etc,
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? What is prediction? I see most people don't like it. Does my current Zalman ZM-GM1 with the Avargo 9500 Laser Stream have it? Will having no prediction make me more accurate in shooters? If it helps me I want it. If it hinders me I don't want it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Yeah I currently play with a laser mouse. But I hear optical mice are more accurate. And since I don't need the high sensitivity a laser provides an optical will probably be cheaper and better for me.
> Ambidextrous is a no no. I haven't tested many mice. However, Mionix Naus feels pretty good. I used to have an old Verbatim Rapier V2 as well and I liked that as well. My current Zalman could be more comfortable than it is but I have adapted and it has served me well for a number of years now. Roccat Kone XTD I also like but it's expensive and I would like a place to rest my ring and pinkie fingers.
> I do like the ability to adapt the weight of my mouse to suit my taste. Currently i have 5 (I think they are 6g) weights in my mouse. So my mouse weighs at the moment a total of 115g.
> Definitely braided cable.
> I would like something with probably a rubbery finish so I do not loose grip of my mouse when things get intense and sweaty.
> 
> *My mouse just broke so assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated!*


G402 or G502


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?: I am right handed and use a palm grip. Use a claw when browsing the desktop but that is like 5% of the time.
> 2. What's your sensitivity? As low as my current mouse can go which is 800DPI. I would probably go lower if I could
> 3. What's your maximum budget? Probably R600 to R800 (Around $70 US)
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?Yes. Thumb buttons are good for me.
> 5. What games do you play? Battlefield 4, Counter Strike GO, Dota 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Tomb Raider's (I have all of 'em) GTA V, Star Citizen, Company of Hero's, Dawn of War, Planetside 2, Crysis, Warface. Mass Effect etc. etc. You get the idea. multiple genre's etc, etc,
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? What is prediction? I see most people don't like it. Does my current Zalman ZM-GM1 with the Avargo 9500 Laser Stream have it? Will having no prediction make me more accurate in shooters? If it helps me I want it. If it hinders me I don't want it.
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Yeah I currently play with a laser mouse. But I hear optical mice are more accurate. And since I don't need the high sensitivity a laser provides an optical will probably be cheaper and better for me.
> Ambidextrous is a no no. I haven't tested many mice. However, Mionix Naus feels pretty good. I used to have an old Verbatim Rapier V2 as well and I liked that as well. My current Zalman could be more comfortable than it is but I have adapted and it has served me well for a number of years now. Roccat Kone XTD I also like but it's expensive and I would like a place to rest my ring and pinkie fingers.
> I do like the ability to adapt the weight of my mouse to suit my taste. Currently i have 5 (I think they are 6g) weights in my mouse. So my mouse weighs at the moment a total of 115g.
> Definitely braided cable.
> I would like something with probably a rubbery finish so I do not loose grip of my mouse when things get intense and sweaty.
> 
> *My mouse just broke so assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated!*
> 
> 
> 
> G402 or G502
Click to expand...

what's the jury have to say on the mionix nous mice?


----------



## xIC3x

My birthday is coming up and I'm itching for a new mouse as I still can't get use to my mionix naos 7000. It's also the sensor adns3310 which feel a bit off to me, like it had some kind smoothing? I always go back to my IE3.0 <3 the sensor just feels so RAW that I'm struggling to find a replacement. I use to have g400 which sensor was really nice, it was the one without angle snapping. I can see that the sensors are pretty much narrowed down to MT04, S3095, S3988 or are there any other optical 'RAW' sensors worth considering?

What's your grip style?
A mixture of Claw/Palm and Sometimes a tiny bit of fingertip (mainly desktop)
What's your sensitivity?
400-800dpi depending on the game, I'm a low sens player e.g. CS:GO 400dpi, 500hz, 1.6 in-game. 360° rotation: 25.56 inches/65 centimetres
What's your maximum budget?
£55/$80 should be enough?
Do you want additional buttons?
It would be nice if it had two side button on left, but I'm not fussed tbh...
What games do you play?
FPS, 90% of the time CS:GO and 10% other such as BF3/4
Do you mind about prediction?
Not quite sure, I use to love the prediction in my Ikari Laser when I played CS1.6.
Other relevant information: Low LOD, ambidextrous shape, low weight, no huanos switches, no glossy finish. I have big hands, I use to have fk1 and it wasn't high enough for me. I would also liked a mouse pad for £20/$30 with good glide but it has to be cloth as I had some hybrids in the past and they were a pain to clean everyday...








The mouse's I currently own are: G400(I need to fix the damn cable ;[), G402, IE3.0, Mionix Naos 7000, Steelseries Ikari Laser (Not really mine anymore as I gave it to a family member







). I'm planning on selling G402 and Mionix Naos 7000 as they aren't the type of shape I'm after overall the ambidextrous shape seems to work best for FPS games in my case. When I had the FK1 some crazy HS were going in and it was simply easier to do quick swipes as the mouse didn't feel bulky apart from that after a longer session the mouse felt too low with its arch... As you can see guys I currently have some mice to play on, but I will be selling G402 and Naos 7000. The g400 I'll most likely repair during summer holidays, I just simply don't have time to do it now; colllege and job.


----------



## Melan

3366 is good too. Replacing G400 cable is a 5 minute work. If you're not willing to replace entire mouse, new cable from ebay will cost you only 10$.


----------



## xIC3x

I bought g400 for £19 as a spare, the shape after every longer break felt really odd to me. I probably still can't get use to it that's why I'm thinking of purchasing Kana V2 or Logitech G100s. I'm not sure if that's not going to be a downgrade though ;[

Edit:

Razer Krait 2013 4G seems interesting as well, but I'm not sure about about those curves.


----------



## Melan

AM010 (which is used in G402 and G100S) is also good, unless you are a speed demon (2.7~3 m/s malfunction speed).


----------



## Kermit879

What's your grip style? Claw with my g303 but I can adapt
What's your sensitivity? 1.95 ingame 400dpi CSgo
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 on the left side
What games do you play? CS: Go, GTA, BF, TF2, etc.
Do you mind about prediction? Want none
Other relevant information: Would like light clickers, ergonomic shape, Avago 3310 or better sensor, able to do 400dpi, soft touch paint or rubberized or something not slippery (I sweat on my hands a bit)would be nice but not that important I can stipple it other things are more important. I like the look of the EC2-a but don't like the paint/coating on the fk1 (i assume it's the same) and the heavy clickers. Using a Logitech g303 currently and it's perfect other than the shape. I also have a Finalmouse and KPM that aren't the best for me so don't recommend those.

Repost because no answers. Anyone? The epicgear blade looks nice but no US dealers. I ordered an Ec2 from amazon to try but I don't think I'll like the clickers and coating/paint.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? Claw
> [*] What's your sensitivity? 400, 1.7 in CSGO
> [*] What's your maximum budget? No maximum
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? 2 thumb buttons (right handed)
> [*] What games do you play? 90% CSGO, 10% other FPS
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes, as flawless as possible please, 3090 and better is generally more than good enough though
> [*] Other relevant information: Large hands. Main thing shapewise is that the right side can't be slanted, IE like the EC1/Rival/IE 3.0. This removes most erco mice from the equation, but there are exceptions like the G400 which I can grip fine, I don't like the lip on the left side though which sort of prevents my thumb dragging on the mousepad for added control.
> 
> Generally ambi mice is what works best for me, best shape I've ever used is the Xai/Sensei but I can't stand the laser. The FK1 is good but give me cramps due to the "narrowness" and lower height. I'm waiting for my ZA11 but I want to know my options if that doesn't work out. The ones that I've been looking at is the Aurora, G302/3 and the Finalmouse, are there any others I've missed and how do these mice compare to the FK1 sizewise? FK1 is the closest I've gotten to what I want atm.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> My birthday is coming up and I'm itching for a new mouse as I still can't get use to my mionix naos 7000. It's also the sensor adns3310 which feel a bit off to me, like it had some kind smoothing? I always go back to my IE3.0 <3 the sensor just feels so RAW that I'm struggling to find a replacement. I use to have g400 which sensor was really nice, it was the one without angle snapping. I can see that the sensors are pretty much narrowed down to MT04, S3095, S3988 or are there any other optical 'RAW' sensors worth considering?
> 
> What's your grip style?
> A mixture of Claw/Palm and Sometimes a tiny bit of fingertip (mainly desktop)
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400-800dpi depending on the game, I'm a low sens player e.g. CS:GO 400dpi, 500hz, 1.6 in-game. 360° rotation: 25.56 inches/65 centimetres
> What's your maximum budget?
> £55/$80 should be enough?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> It would be nice if it had two side button on left, but I'm not fussed tbh...
> What games do you play?
> FPS, 90% of the time CS:GO and 10% other such as BF3/4
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not quite sure, I use to love the prediction in my Ikari Laser when I played CS1.6.
> Other relevant information: Low LOD, ambidextrous shape, low weight, no huanos switches, no glossy finish. I have big hands, I use to have fk1 and it wasn't high enough for me. I would also liked a mouse pad for £20/$30 with good glide but it has to be cloth as I had some hybrids in the past and they were a pain to clean everyday...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mouse's I currently own are: G400(I need to fix the damn cable ;[), G402, IE3.0, Mionix Naos 7000, Steelseries Ikari Laser (Not really mine anymore as I gave it to a family member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I'm planning on selling G402 and Mionix Naos 7000 as they aren't the type of shape I'm after overall the ambidextrous shape seems to work best for FPS games in my case. When I had the FK1 some crazy HS were going in and it was simply easier to do quick swipes as the mouse didn't feel bulky apart from that after a longer session the mouse felt too low with its arch... As you can see guys I currently have some mice to play on, but I will be selling G402 and Naos 7000. The g400 I'll most likely repair during summer holidays, I just simply don't have time to do it now; colllege and job.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw with my g303 but I can adapt
> What's your sensitivity? 1.95 ingame 400dpi CSgo
> What's your maximum budget? $100
> Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 on the left side
> What games do you play? CS: Go, GTA, BF, TF2, etc.
> Do you mind about prediction? Want none
> Other relevant information: Would like light clickers, ergonomic shape, Avago 3310 or better sensor, able to do 400dpi, soft touch paint or rubberized or something not slippery (I sweat on my hands a bit)would be nice but not that important I can stipple it other things are more important. I like the look of the EC2-a but don't like the paint/coating on the fk1 (i assume it's the same) and the heavy clickers. Using a Logitech g303 currently and it's perfect other than the shape. I also have a Finalmouse and KPM that aren't the best for me so don't recommend those.
> 
> Repost because no answers. Anyone? The epicgear blade looks nice but no US dealers. I ordered an Ec2 from amazon to try but I don't think I'll like the clickers and coating/paint.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I bought g400 for £19 as a spare, the shape after every longer break felt really odd to me. I probably still can't get use to it that's why I'm thinking of purchasing Kana V2 or Logitech G100s. I'm not sure if that's not going to be a downgrade though ;[
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Razer Krait 2013 4G seems interesting as well, but I'm not sure about about those curves.


I heard the Krait is very thin so it causes cramps for palm grip. It might be decent for claw/fingertip only grippers though. It's got one of the best sensors.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> My birthday is coming up and I'm itching for a new mouse as I still can't get use to my mionix naos 7000. It's also the sensor adns3310 which feel a bit off to me, like it had some kind smoothing? I always go back to my IE3.0 <3 the sensor just feels so RAW that I'm struggling to find a replacement. I use to have g400 which sensor was really nice, it was the one without angle snapping. I can see that the sensors are pretty much narrowed down to MT04, S3095, S3988 or are there any other optical 'RAW' sensors worth considering?
> 
> What's your grip style?
> A mixture of Claw/Palm and Sometimes a tiny bit of fingertip (mainly desktop)
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400-800dpi depending on the game, I'm a low sens player e.g. CS:GO 400dpi, 500hz, 1.6 in-game. 360° rotation: 25.56 inches/65 centimetres
> What's your maximum budget?
> £55/$80 should be enough?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> It would be nice if it had two side button on left, but I'm not fussed tbh...
> What games do you play?
> FPS, 90% of the time CS:GO and 10% other such as BF3/4
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not quite sure, I use to love the prediction in my Ikari Laser when I played CS1.6.
> Other relevant information: Low LOD, ambidextrous shape, low weight, no huanos switches, no glossy finish. I have big hands, I use to have fk1 and it wasn't high enough for me. I would also liked a mouse pad for £20/$30 with good glide but it has to be cloth as I had some hybrids in the past and they were a pain to clean everyday...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mouse's I currently own are: G400(I need to fix the damn cable ;[), G402, IE3.0, Mionix Naos 7000, Steelseries Ikari Laser (Not really mine anymore as I gave it to a family member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I'm planning on selling G402 and Mionix Naos 7000 as they aren't the type of shape I'm after overall the ambidextrous shape seems to work best for FPS games in my case. When I had the FK1 some crazy HS were going in and it was simply easier to do quick swipes as the mouse didn't feel bulky apart from that after a longer session the mouse felt too low with its arch... As you can see guys I currently have some mice to play on, but I will be selling G402 and Naos 7000. The g400 I'll most likely repair during summer holidays, I just simply don't have time to do it now; colllege and job.


Uhm, so why are you not sticking with the MLT04/IE3.0 if you like it the best?


----------



## xIC3x

Because the shape is not exactly what I'm after, I'm after a bigger FK1 with S3988 and Omron switches


----------



## quejki

[*] What's your grip style? - Palm I think

[*] What's your sensitivity? - 400DPI, 2.5 sens in-game 6/11 windows, raw input ON

[*] What's your maximum budget? - unlimited

[*] Do you want additional buttons? - 2 thumb buttons (right handed)

[*] What games do you play? - mostly CSGO ( competetive ) but sometimes other FPS games, some GTA and soon The Witcher 3









[*] Other relevant information: So 5-6 years ago I was using very popular mouse in Poland - A4Tech X748K. This mouse had great shape for me, and good sensor. It was cheap also. 1 year ago I bought SS Rival, which was too long for me. Rubber started peeling so fast, It was frustrating... It was good mouse, but I decided to sell this mouse and try something diffirent. So I bought ZOWIE FK1. At the begining I played badly... Diffirent shape and coating... I thought that will change, I will adapt but no... I still can't feel this mouse. I just can't aim on FK1. Mouse slips in my hand. It's like holding a soap







Also I think coating in SS Rival was a lot of better.

So I decided, that I will buy mouse with similliar shape to X748K. I heard, that X748K was DA clone. So I'm thinking about DA 2013/ Chroma and ZOWIE EC1-A. Maybe something else? Thanks for your help in advance.


----------



## negativory

[*] What's your grip style? - Fingertip

[*] What's your sensitivity? - 400DPI, 2.0 sens in-game 6/11 windows, raw input OFF

[*] What's your maximum budget? - unlimited

[*] Do you want additional buttons? - 2 thumb buttons (right handed)

[*] What games do you play? - CSGO (is what I care about), Dota2 (dont care)

[*] Other relevant information: What I'm looking for is the most accurate mice. low latency mice, ec. So if you are suggesting, try to suggest multiple, so that I can pick based on shape since I've used a lot of the mice already. Its hard to scan through the forums these days with so many mega threads of info and find out which are actually the best sensors.

I've tried a lot of mice. G400s has always been my go-to and I usually resort back to it. I havent tried a lot of the mice for extended period of time. Usually if it doesn't feel better or at least very good after a few hours I give up on it. The other mice I've stuck with for some periods of time (a few weeks)

DA2013
SS Sensei (full, not the raw edition)
Zowie EC2-A

other mice I've tried

G302
G303
G402
EC1-A
FK1
FK
SS Rival
SS Kinzu
EC2-EVO CL
G100s


----------



## Alastair

Well I got myself the Naos 7000. This thing is amazing! Love it and the weight is close enough to my Zalman that I do not have worry about the weight.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *negativory*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? - Fingertip
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity? - 400DPI, 2.0 sens in-game 6/11 windows, raw input OFF
> 
> [*] What's your maximum budget? - unlimited
> 
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? - 2 thumb buttons (right handed)
> 
> [*] What games do you play? - CSGO (is what I care about), Dota2 (dont care)
> 
> [*] Other relevant information: What I'm looking for is the most accurate mice. low latency mice, ec. So if you are suggesting, try to suggest multiple, so that I can pick based on shape since I've used a lot of the mice already. Its hard to scan through the forums these days with so many mega threads of info and find out which are actually the best sensors.
> 
> I've tried a lot of mice. G400s has always been my go-to and I usually resort back to it. I havent tried a lot of the mice for extended period of time. Usually if it doesn't feel better or at least very good after a few hours I give up on it. The other mice I've stuck with for some periods of time (a few weeks)
> 
> DA2013
> SS Sensei (full, not the raw edition)
> Zowie EC2-A
> 
> other mice I've tried
> 
> G302
> G303
> G402
> EC1-A
> FK1
> FK
> SS Rival
> SS Kinzu
> EC2-EVO CL
> G100s


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979

What didn't you like about the DA2013?


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *negativory*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? - Fingertip
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity? - 400DPI, 2.0 sens in-game 6/11 windows, raw input OFF
> 
> [*] What's your maximum budget? - unlimited
> 
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? - 2 thumb buttons (right handed)
> 
> [*] What games do you play? - CSGO (is what I care about), Dota2 (dont care)
> 
> [*] Other relevant information: What I'm looking for is the most accurate mice. low latency mice, ec. So if you are suggesting, try to suggest multiple, so that I can pick based on shape since I've used a lot of the mice already. Its hard to scan through the forums these days with so many mega threads of info and find out which are actually the best sensors.
> 
> I've tried a lot of mice. G400s has always been my go-to and I usually resort back to it. I havent tried a lot of the mice for extended period of time. Usually if it doesn't feel better or at least very good after a few hours I give up on it. The other mice I've stuck with for some periods of time (a few weeks)
> 
> DA2013
> SS Sensei (full, not the raw edition)
> Zowie EC2-A
> 
> other mice I've tried
> 
> G302
> G303
> G402
> EC1-A
> FK1
> FK
> SS Rival
> SS Kinzu
> EC2-EVO CL
> G100s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979
> 
> What didn't you like about the DA2013?
Click to expand...

I would say try a Mionix Avior 7000. Same sensor as the Naos and I love it.


----------



## ihatelolcats

i really liked my logitech g400 but they dont even sell them anymore. the feel of the material was nice and didnt collect dirt. is there a normal wired mouse like that i can buy?

What's your grip style? palm
What's your sensitivity? dunno
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? at least 1 side button
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction? yes, i hate angle snapping and prediction
Other relevant information:


----------



## Dyaems

I already have my _almost_ perfect mice based on the recommendation here when I asked many months ago, so I will not go through all of the questions:

Any mice that is similar (better if the same) shape as Kinzu v2/v3 but with (two) side buttons and programmable software?
No angle snapping and prediction as well!
I'm used to the G302 weight so probably at least the same weight as G302. 100g or less is better too!
No LEDs would be great to save costs









Thanks again!


----------



## FabioTMW

MaximilianKohler i have some questions for you if you have the time, i have the intellimouse 1.1 but the scrolling wheel has always been a pain, because it tends to randomly go up or down, is there a way to fix this? also i don't know if i should replace the mouse because it's starting to die but the new mice don't seem as good as this what do you suggest?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FabioTMW*
> 
> MaximilianKohler i have some questions for you if you have the time, i have the intellimouse 1.1 but the scrolling wheel has always been a pain, because it tends to randomly go up or down, is there a way to fix this? also i don't know if i should replace the mouse because it's starting to die but the new mice don't seem as good as this what do you suggest?


Dying in what way? If it is the cable, it isn't too difficult to take a mouse cable from another mouse and solder it to the pcb (Idk if the cable in the 1.1 is soldered to the pcb or if it uses a connector, but if it is a connector, just more icing on the cake). Also, this is a fix for the scroll wheel in the 3.0 which does the same thing. I believe it will work with the 1.1 and WMO, as well. Here is a TuT


----------



## FabioTMW

Thanks for for tip on the mousewheel, about cable i have to investigate because it stops working sometimes so it's probably it. But i kinda want to buy a new one even if is the same because this one served me well but needs a well deserved rest now after so many years.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *negativory*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? - Fingertip
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity? - 400DPI, 2.0 sens in-game 6/11 windows, raw input OFF
> 
> [*] What's your maximum budget? - unlimited
> 
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? - 2 thumb buttons (right handed)
> 
> [*] What games do you play? - CSGO (is what I care about), Dota2 (dont care)
> 
> [*] Other relevant information: What I'm looking for is the most accurate mice. low latency mice, ec. So if you are suggesting, try to suggest multiple, so that I can pick based on shape since I've used a lot of the mice already. Its hard to scan through the forums these days with so many mega threads of info and find out which are actually the best sensors.
> 
> I've tried a lot of mice. G400s has always been my go-to and I usually resort back to it. I havent tried a lot of the mice for extended period of time. Usually if it doesn't feel better or at least very good after a few hours I give up on it. The other mice I've stuck with for some periods of time (a few weeks)
> 
> DA2013
> SS Sensei (full, not the raw edition)
> Zowie EC2-A
> 
> other mice I've tried
> 
> G302
> G303
> G402
> EC1-A
> FK1
> FK
> SS Rival
> SS Kinzu
> EC2-EVO CL
> G100s


What was bad with SS Rival? Cuz im considering to buying one for CS:GO.


----------



## Shottys

*What's your grip style?*

Palm

*What's your sensitivity?*

1800 dpi, 6 windows

*What's your maximum budget?*

around 60 usd

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes, 2. No more, no less. I've always used the forward button for push to talk.

*What games do you play?*

FPS

*Do you mind about prediction?*

Rather have no prediction.

*Other relevant information:*

I currently have a g400s and have used a lot of mice before with the same-ish shape (mx518, g5 v1 and 2, g500). I want a mouse with a better scroll wheel than the g400s. It tends to scroll back/forward a notch after I finish scrolling. I sent my first g400s and the one I got in return has the same problem. I don't use the scroll wheel in games, but it can get annoying for web browsing. Build quality is very important to me.

I want the most accurate and raw feeling sensor possible. I tried a Rival a few weeks back and loved the sensor, just not so much the coating or side grips. I tried both the g402 and g502, but hated how my thumb rested on the "sniper" button. I also tried a Deathadder Chroma, but felt like my ring and pinky finger were cramping.

I don't want a mouse with a tilt wheel, and I prefer a matte finish. Dpi switching buttons aren't needed, though are a nice addition for rebinding to something else.

I use a Steelseries Qck mousepad if that matters.

My hand size is 190 millimeters from wrist to the tip of my middle finger, and i'm right handed.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shottys*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Palm
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1800 dpi, 6 windows
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> around 60 usd
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, 2. No more, no less. I've always used the forward button for push to talk.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> FPS
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Rather have no prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I currently have a g400s and have used a lot of mice before with the same-ish shape (mx518, g5 v1 and 2, g500). I want a mouse with a better scroll wheel than the g400s. It tends to scroll back/forward a notch after I finish scrolling. I sent my first g400s and the one I got in return has the same problem. I don't use the scroll wheel in games, but it can get annoying for web browsing. Build quality is very important to me.
> 
> I want the most accurate and raw feeling sensor possible. I tried a Rival a few weeks back and loved the sensor, just not so much the coating or side grips. I tried both the g402 and g502, but hated how my thumb rested on the "sniper" button. I also tried a Deathadder Chroma, but felt like my ring and pinky finger were cramping.
> 
> I don't want a mouse with a tilt wheel, and I prefer a matte finish. Dpi switching buttons aren't needed, though are a nice addition for rebinding to something else.
> 
> I use a Steelseries Qck mousepad if that matters.
> 
> My hand size is 190 millimeters from wrist to the tip of my middle finger, and i'm right handed.


Have you looked at the Zowie EC1-a ? The shape might suit you


----------



## negativory

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> What was bad with SS Rival? Cuz im considering to buying one for CS:GO.


Nothing. I actually keep considering trying it again. At the time I felt my results with it weren't good but for no particular reason. Its just a weird shape/size and I think I never got used to it. I think its a good mouse tho. Plenty of "top aimers" use the Rival, including Krimz and Olof


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FabioTMW*
> 
> MaximilianKohler i have some questions for you if you have the time, i have the intellimouse 1.1 but the scrolling wheel has always been a pain, because it tends to randomly go up or down, is there a way to fix this? also i don't know if i should replace the mouse because it's starting to die but the new mice don't seem as good as this what do you suggest?


I bind mwheeldown to jump, and mwheelup unbound. So after I jump I scroll up, and that way I never accidentally jump.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Dying in what way? If it is the cable, it isn't too difficult to take a mouse cable from another mouse and solder it to the pcb (Idk if the cable in the 1.1 is soldered to the pcb or if it uses a connector, but if it is a connector, just more icing on the cake). Also, this is a fix for the scroll wheel in the 3.0 which does the same thing. I believe it will work with the 1.1 and WMO, as well. Here is a TuT


Is that a piece of gum?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> What was bad with SS Rival? Cuz im considering to buying one for CS:GO.






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shottys*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Palm
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1800 dpi, 6 windows
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> around 60 usd
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, 2. No more, no less. I've always used the forward button for push to talk.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> FPS
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Rather have no prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> I currently have a g400s and have used a lot of mice before with the same-ish shape (mx518, g5 v1 and 2, g500). I want a mouse with a better scroll wheel than the g400s. It tends to scroll back/forward a notch after I finish scrolling. I sent my first g400s and the one I got in return has the same problem. I don't use the scroll wheel in games, but it can get annoying for web browsing. Build quality is very important to me.
> 
> I want the most accurate and raw feeling sensor possible. I tried a Rival a few weeks back and loved the sensor, just not so much the coating or side grips. I tried both the g402 and g502, but hated how my thumb rested on the "sniper" button. I also tried a Deathadder Chroma, but felt like my ring and pinky finger were cramping.
> 
> I don't want a mouse with a tilt wheel, and I prefer a matte finish. Dpi switching buttons aren't needed, though are a nice addition for rebinding to something else.
> 
> I use a Steelseries Qck mousepad if that matters.
> 
> My hand size is 190 millimeters from wrist to the tip of my middle finger, and i'm right handed.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Is that a piece of gum?


No, it is just some paper.


----------



## noway1

Looking for a mouse for mostly internet surfing. I have big hands. Prefer wired or long-lasting AA battery (s).

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? N/A
What's your maximum budget? Unlimited
Do you want additional buttons? Forward/Back/Middle
What games do you play? None
Do you mind about prediction? Prefer not but open minded
Other relevant information: Braided cord not allowed, Reliable since I may keep it awhile and don't want click issues.

I used to like the B75-00001 Intellimouse Explorer before switching to a trackball but not familiar with current mouse offerings. Thanks for any suggestions. I will be using this mouse on *Windows XP* systems.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Have you tried local stores like Canada Computers or NCIX?


----------



## noway1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Have you tried local stores like Canada Computers or NCIX?


Not yet but will when I get closer to those stores. In meantime will use either MX518 or g9x. Nothing wrong with them but always on lookout for something bigger.


----------



## preaux

What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *Unsure, adjustable CPI would be ideal*
What's your maximum budget? *$60, but feel free to recommend above budget as I buy used/refurbished stuff a lot*
Do you want additional buttons? *More than one less than 12*
What games do you play? *Little bit of everything, all genres*
Do you mind about prediction? *Never tried it, not sure*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Basically I'm a fingertip gripper with large hands/long fingers (9.5" span thumb to pinky). I don't really have any experience with any mouse beyond a basic Intellimouse Explorer, so I don't know my sensitivity. I keep my windows mouse speed way up, but I don't know what that would translate to in CPI. Can you also advise whether or not a mousepad is recommended/needed (wood desk) with your selection and which one?


----------



## Lust

*What's your grip style?*

Not too sure. I guess I am in between palm and claw.

*What's your sensitivity?*

400-450

*What's your maximum budget?*

No budget.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Less is more.

*What games do you play?*

FPS

*Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction.

*Other relevant information:*

Previously used these mice: Mionix Avior 7000, SS Rival, SS Sensei, Zowie FK, Zowie AM, Logitech MX518, DeathAdder. I am looking for a mouse that has the best sensor performance for FPS games that fits well in the hand/isn't awkward. I loved how accurate the Avior was but I hated the buttons on the side. I could never get a really good grip on that mouse. I have large hands and long fingers.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Not too sure. I guess I am in between palm and claw.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 400-450
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> No budget.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Less is more.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> FPS
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> No prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Previously used these mice: Mionix Avior 7000, SS Rival, SS Sensei, Zowie FK, Zowie AM, Logitech MX518, DeathAdder. I am looking for a mouse that has the best sensor performance for FPS games that fits well in the hand/isn't awkward. I loved how accurate the Avior was but I hated the buttons on the side. I could never get a really good grip on that mouse. I have large hands and long fingers.


Wait for the release of the new FinalMouse.


----------



## Lust

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Wait for the release of the new FinalMouse.


What are some of the details of FinalMouse? I've never heard of them


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> What are some of the details of FinalMouse? I've never heard of them


http://finalmouse.com/




They are re-releasing it with all quality control improvements.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *preaux*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *Unsure, adjustable CPI would be ideal*
> What's your maximum budget? *$60, but feel free to recommend above budget as I buy used/refurbished stuff a lot*
> Do you want additional buttons? *More than one less than 12*
> What games do you play? *Little bit of everything, all genres*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Never tried it, not sure*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Basically I'm a fingertip gripper with large hands/long fingers (9.5" span thumb to pinky). I don't really have any experience with any mouse beyond a basic Intellimouse Explorer, so I don't know my sensitivity. I keep my windows mouse speed way up, but I don't know what that would translate to in CPI. Can you also advise whether or not a mousepad is recommended/needed (wood desk) with your selection and which one?


Keep your windows sensitivity slider in the middle (6/11), with EPP unchecked. If you live in the US you can get an $8-10 supermat at Staples. If you live somewhere else, check your local stores for a generic pad.

The Intellimouse explorer is one of the best gaming mice ever made. There isn't a better mouse I could recommend at the moment. Depending what operating system you have, google how to overclock your mouse to 500hz.


----------



## preaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The Intellimouse explorer is one of the best gaming mice ever made. There isn't a better mouse I could recommend at the moment. Depending what operating system you have, google how to overclock your mouse to 500hz.


I hear you, and I'm fine with going back to one, but it seems like people are all charging $30 or $40 for one. I remember them being a lot cheaper. Is this the best option at that price point? I used to use the old 1.1, is the 3.0 basically the same thing?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *preaux*
> 
> I hear you, and I'm fine with going back to one, but it seems like people are all charging $30 or $40 for one. I remember them being a lot cheaper. Is this the best option at that price point? I used to use the old 1.1, is the 3.0 basically the same thing?


Oh, I thought the intelli was your current mouse.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## preaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Oh, I thought the intelli was your current mouse.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


Yeah, I don't have the intellimouse anymore.

I didn't realize this, but the 3.0 doesn't appear to be ambidextrous like the old 1.1. That's kind of a bummer, because I prefer ambidextrous mice with my grip. I might just grab a 1.1 off ebay. I have Win7 still so I can overclock the USB port for it.

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm curious about your statement of setting the sensitivity to 6/11. What method do you recommend for me to get the sensitivity I prefer, given the rather low CPI of the intellimouse for 1080p screens?


----------



## AR-Go

I've tried both the Mionix Avior and Naos 7000 as a replacement to my g9x, which fit my hand like a glove. I wanted both of these mice to be comfortable, but they just aren't, alas. I sort of suspect I will never find a mouse as comfortable as the g9x for my grip, but I'm just wondering if anyone out there has any recommendations? The most specific reason why the g9x was so comfortable to me was because 1) The end of the mouse where my palm would rest is high in the back instead of sloping downward like most mice I see. This area has a great grip, and I would use my thumb, ring, and pinky to tightly lock the mouse, pushing it against my palm, and be able to very tightly and precisely control the mouse. 2) The mouse clicks have a very minimal actuation and resistance, I can click almost twice as fast on the g9x as I can on the Mionix mice. The clicks are a very minor issue and I would really just prefer a mouse that doesn't cramp my hand. My final gripe with the Mionix mice is the coating(some kind of non-stick?) which is unfortunate, because the mouse is constantly slipping out of my hand. This is probably the worst aspect of the mouse's design, but a minor issue in comparison to comfort/ergonomics in the context of grip style. Mice I'm wondering the viability of claw-gripping about is the g502, FK1, but I'm open to any recommendations. Thanks for reading.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *preaux*
> 
> Yeah, I don't have the intellimouse anymore.
> 
> I didn't realize this, but the 3.0 doesn't appear to be ambidextrous like the old 1.1. That's kind of a bummer, because I prefer ambidextrous mice with my grip. I might just grab a 1.1 off ebay. I have Win7 still so I can overclock the USB port for it.
> 
> Excuse my ignorance, but I'm curious about your statement of setting the sensitivity to 6/11. What method do you recommend for me to get the sensitivity I prefer, given the rather low CPI of the intellimouse for 1080p screens?


It's just something you'll have to get used to on the desktop. In 3d games you can use the sensitivity cvar.

I prefer ambi too. The 1.1 should perform the same.

This has some info on why you always want 6/11 with EPP unchecked: http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization

There's also a sticky on this forum.


----------



## uNfEiL

MaximilianKohler what do you think about Logitech G402 (and G502) in FPS games (CS:GO)? And what's your thoughts on Finalmouse 2k15?


----------



## preaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's just something you'll have to get used to on the desktop. In 3d games you can use the sensitivity cvar.
> 
> I prefer ambi too. The 1.1 should perform the same.
> 
> This has some info on why you always want 6/11 with EPP unchecked: http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization
> 
> There's also a sticky on this forum.


I'm trying the 6/11 right now (on my office PC), I'll be honest I feel like I'm dragging the cursor through molasses. I'd have to get used to moving my whole arm rather than just camming my wrist to flick across my screens, because it's taking me almost 8 inches to move across both screens. And unfortunately I've found I have to use the same sensitivity at work as I do at home, otherwise I get thrown off. And I don't really have enough space on my desk at work to move 8 inches.

I'll be honest, I'm probably going go with a different option that has adjustable/higher CPI. Because I'm not sure I can handle that pace. My wrist is hurting from just doing it for 10 minutes (bad habit moving with my wrist I suppose). I'll probably look for something closer to the 800-1000 CPI level.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate you taking the time.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> MaximilianKohler what do you think about Logitech G402 (and G502) in FPS games (CS:GO)? And what's your thoughts on Finalmouse 2k15?


3366 is the most overrated sensor in the history of mice. I've tried at least 4 other mice (DA4g, FM, Aurora, KPM) that performed better in FPS games. The 502 was already too thin for palm grip and thus causes cramps for many people. The 402 was made even thinner, so I didn't bother trying it.

My thoughts on the finalmouse:


----------



## Lust

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Not too sure. I guess I am in between palm and claw.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 400-450
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> No budget.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Less is more.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> FPS
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> No prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Previously used these mice: Mionix Avior 7000, SS Rival, SS Sensei, Zowie FK, Zowie AM, Logitech MX518, DeathAdder. I am looking for a mouse that has the best sensor performance for FPS games that fits well in the hand/isn't awkward. I loved how accurate the Avior was but I hated the buttons on the side. I could never get a really good grip on that mouse. I have large hands and long fingers.


Does anyone have more suggestions for me? I want something that had great ergonomics like my MX518 or the comfort in an ambi mouse like the Sensei with the pixel precise performance. Also, I am considering trying out an IE 3.0 again. I made the mistake of selling mine. Is this mouse still being produced? I know that Amazon is flooded with Chinese clones but are there any legitimate ones left?


----------



## illli

can someone point me in the right direction? looking to replace the pads on my logitech g500, but no idea where to look for such replacements. also, i would prefer something different than the stock pads. to me the stock ones always seemed like some hard plastic, and offered a lot of friction between the mouse and the surface that i was using.


----------



## AR-Go

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illli*
> 
> can someone point me in the right direction? looking to replace the pads on my logitech g500, but no idea where to look for such replacements. also, i would prefer something different than the stock pads. to me the stock ones always seemed like some hard plastic, and offered a lot of friction between the mouse and the surface that i was using.


Maybe look into the g400/g400s? I've used logitech mice for the longest time, and switching to a non-logitech was hard. Everything else felt much less... ergonomic, which I think logitech does pretty well. So to those who are already comfortable on a logitech mouse, stick with that brand imo unless you can physically test a new brand in person.


----------



## illli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AR-Go*
> 
> Maybe look into the g400/g400s? I've used logitech mice for the longest time, and switching to a non-logitech was hard. Everything else felt much less... ergonomic, which I think logitech does pretty well. So to those who are already comfortable on a logitech mouse, stick with that brand imo unless you can physically test a new brand in person.


I'm not sure what you mean. i am looking for replacement for the pads on the bottom of the mouse, that allow it to glide on surfaces... not an entire replacement of the mouse itself.


----------



## Justdefied

*What's your grip style?*

Mix of Palm and fingertip. Switch between to two, also sometimes do a hybrid

*What's your sensitivity?*

400/600/1600 (400 and 600 in game, 1600 on desktop)

*What's your maximum budget?*

No budget.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Two additional buttons atleast for Mic push-to-talk

*What games do you play?*

Everything but mainly FPS and MMOs

*Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction.

*Other relevant information:*

I want a mouse with a firm button for the left and right key. currently using the Corsair M90, it's breaking down and need a new mouse but the mouse click is way to light/sensitive for my liking (I can't 1 tap in CSGO). Also hate the input lag/smoothing. I want a mouse with pretty much 1-to-1 response as far as pixel and movement goes.


----------



## AR-Go

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illli*
> 
> can someone point me in the right direction? looking to replace the pads on my logitech g500, but no idea where to look for such replacements. also, i would prefer something different than the stock pads. to me the stock ones always seemed like some hard plastic, and offered a lot of friction between the mouse and the surface that i was using.


Whoops. Ignore me, I misread your post. Did a quick google search for you:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Logitech-G500-Games-Gaming-Mouse-Feet-Skates-Teflon-/271244181624


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Cheap mouse feet replacement: http://www.overclock.net/t/1482946/g502-pros-and-cons-for-logitech-to-fix-with-its-next-shell-for-this-sensor/50_50#post_22133383


----------



## preaux

Me again. Any thoughts on the Zowie FK2? Size, shape, and weight look perfect for my fingertip style (almost exactly the same size & shape as the mouse I use at the office). Looks like it's more expensive than it's worth, but other than that is there anything to beware of here?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Shape is quite good for small hands and non-palm grip. There seems to be some variance in sensor performance. No zowie mice have performed well for me.


----------



## MasterBash

Looking for a mouse for someone who doesnt game.

He wants a wireless mouse, he is currently using a MX518 and he loves the shape. The only requirement is long battery life and possibly usable without software (is that possible with wireless mice?)

I was thinking about Performance MX, Anywhere MX, MX Master (I heard bad things about it, but I think its mostly bluetooth? maybe a firmware will fix in the future?) or G602 (ya I know, many buttons). I dont know know if the G602 has anything mapped to back/forward by default without drivers.

Thanks.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Looking for a mouse for someone who doesnt game.
> 
> He wants a wireless mouse, he is currently using a MX518 and he loves the shape. The only requirement is long battery life and possibly usable without software (is that possible with wireless mice?)
> 
> I was thinking about Performance MX, Anywhere MX, MX Master (I heard bad things about it, but I think its mostly bluetooth? maybe a firmware will fix in the future?) or G602 (ya I know, many buttons). I dont know know if the G602 has anything mapped to back/forward by default without drivers.
> 
> Thanks.


Performance MX, but tbh I wouldn't spend $100 on any of those.


----------



## MasterBash

Is it worth 70? I can get it for 70..

There is also the M705.


----------



## Jubijub

Hello,

I'm looking for a wireless mouse.

Current and past gear
I use a Corsair M65

*Grip style*
- Palm / claw (I prefer palm, but most gaming mice are claw and I don't mind)

*Sensitivity*
2400, no accel obviously (I tried higher, I can play FPS up to 6000, but I need to reduce in game sensitivity a lot)

*Max budget*
Don't care, want a good product

*Buttons*
I like Corsair buttons, but the sniper button for instance is too far (I don't manage to use this mouse with a palm grip, and with a claw grip it's too far)
so typical 5 buttons + DPI + sniper is nice, can do without sniper button though)

*Games*
GTA V, FPS primarily (CS, looking forward to overwatch )occasional MOBA (HOTS), occasional RTS (SC2), but I also work with it (Photoshop)
Very much a casual gamer, I play when I have the time (kid, work







)

*Prediction*
I'm not sure I mind


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jubijub*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a wireless mouse.
> 
> Current and past gear
> I use a Corsair M65
> 
> *Grip style*
> - Palm / claw (I prefer palm, but most gaming mice are claw and I don't mind)
> 
> *Sensitivity*
> 2400, no accel obviously (I tried higher, I can play FPS up to 6000, but I need to reduce in game sensitivity a lot)
> 
> *Max budget*
> Don't care, want a good product
> 
> *Buttons*
> I like Corsair buttons, but the sniper button for instance is too far (I don't manage to use this mouse with a palm grip, and with a claw grip it's too far)
> so typical 5 buttons + DPI + sniper is nice, can do without sniper button though)
> 
> *Games*
> GTA V, FPS primarily (CS, looking forward to overwatch )occasional MOBA (HOTS), occasional RTS (SC2), but I also work with it (Photoshop)
> Very much a casual gamer, I play when I have the time (kid, work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> *Prediction*
> I'm not sure I mind


G502


----------



## YawMawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Is it worth 70? I can get it for 70..
> 
> There is also the M705.


I use the performance MX. I am quite happy with it.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> G502


G602.


----------



## Jubijub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> G502


it's not wireless...but it is often recommanded
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> G602.


thanks...I had this one in mind, but I'm not a big fan of the row of buttons around the thumb...

with the same parameters as the one I gave, which wired mouse would you recommand ? (beyond the G502







)


----------



## MasterBash

No doubt the Performance MX is good and I am tempted to buy it for him because I really like cool things, but for someone strictly looking for battery life and not performance, is it the way to go? or is something like the M705 (which advertise 3 years battery life, no idea how accurate this is) better?

Or is there another alternative?


----------



## Philts

What's your grip style?
Hybrid between palm and claw
What's your sensitivity?
Low
What's your maximum budget?
Less than 100$
Do you want additional buttons?
Dont mind them, but less is better.
What games do you play?
CS:GO (a lot) and LoL (often)
Do you mind about prediction?
I dont want any of this, no acceleration, prediction, angle-snapping, pixel skipping. I just want my movement to be 1:1.
Other relevant information:
Would prefer to have the mouse in red, if not in black (all my setup is red and black). Lift-off distance: very low, since I am playing on a very low sensitivity. Weight: as light as possible. Wired (500-1000hz). Would like the mouse to be driverless. Dont care about the CPI/DPI, I use less than 1000. Very important: OPTICAL SENSOR. Thank you to whoever answer this, it would greatly help me


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jubijub*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not wireless...but it is often recommanded


My fault, I missed that qualification. It would suit your purposes exactly otherwise. It's a palm/claw mouse, and you would not have an issue with the weight as the M65 is much heavier (going off the datasheet at least). You'll find no better, sensor/build wise.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jubijub*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a wireless mouse.
> 
> Current and past gear
> I use a Corsair M65
> 
> *Grip style*
> - Palm / claw (I prefer palm, but most gaming mice are claw and I don't mind)
> 
> *Sensitivity*
> 2400, no accel obviously (I tried higher, I can play FPS up to 6000, but I need to reduce in game sensitivity a lot)
> 
> *Max budget*
> Don't care, want a good product
> 
> *Buttons*
> I like Corsair buttons, but the sniper button for instance is too far (I don't manage to use this mouse with a palm grip, and with a claw grip it's too far)
> so typical 5 buttons + DPI + sniper is nice, can do without sniper button though)
> 
> *Games*
> GTA V, FPS primarily (CS, looking forward to overwatch )occasional MOBA (HOTS), occasional RTS (SC2), but I also work with it (Photoshop)
> Very much a casual gamer, I play when I have the time (kid, work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> *Prediction*
> I'm not sure I mind


Just to let you know, higher DPI is NOT better. It's actually detrimental to tracking. It only makes the cursor move faster (IE: higher sensitivity). The vast majority of pros and high level gamers use 400-800. Also, HOTS isn't a MOBA









Keep in mind that many people find the 502 too thin, and thus causes cramps. It's also quite heavy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philts*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Hybrid between palm and claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> Low
> What's your maximum budget?
> Less than 100$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Dont mind them, but less is better.
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO (a lot) and LoL (often)
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I dont want any of this, no acceleration, prediction, angle-snapping, pixel skipping. I just want my movement to be 1:1.
> Other relevant information:
> Would prefer to have the mouse in red, if not in black (all my setup is red and black). Lift-off distance: very low, since I am playing on a very low sensitivity. Weight: as light as possible. Wired (500-1000hz). Would like the mouse to be driverless. Dont care about the CPI/DPI, I use less than 1000. Very important: OPTICAL SENSOR. Thank you to whoever answer this, it would greatly help me


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Also, HOTS isn't a MOBA


Lol what? I really hope you're not trying to defend the "integrity" of league or something.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Huh? Heart of the swarm is an RTS. That's all I was saying. I would never defend the integrity of a game called "lol".


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Huh? Heart of the swarm is an RTS. That's all I was saying. I would never defend the integrity of a game called "lol".


He was referring to Heroes of the Storm.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Ah. Well that's not the first or last time that mix up is going to happen...


----------



## Soo8

What's your grip style? Mostly claw, can palm sometimes
What's your sensitivity? 400-800dpi, always 1 ingame
What's your maximum budget? About 50eur
Do you want additional buttons? 2 on right side
What games do you play? Mostly cs
Do you mind about prediction? I hate accel
Other relevant information: I'd like the sensor position to be lower than the perfect amount (I don't use my wrist when I play)
I'm currently using a fk2. My aim is good but the shape cramps my hand to much. I pulled out my sensei to test if it still works and it is SO much more comfortable compared to my fk2. I can hit shots more consistently with the sensei, but the sensor is atrocious on a qck. Pulled out a kinzu and it is still more comfortable than the fk. In my opinion it's the hump in the back. Any suggestions?


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Mostly claw, can palm sometimes
> What's your sensitivity? 400-800dpi, always 1 ingame
> What's your maximum budget? About 50eur
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 on right side
> What games do you play? Mostly cs
> Do you mind about prediction? I hate accel
> Other relevant information: I'd like the sensor position to be lower than the perfect amount (I don't use my wrist when I play)
> I'm currently using a fk2. My aim is good but the shape cramps my hand to much. I pulled out my sensei to test if it still works and it is SO much more comfortable compared to my fk2. I can hit shots more consistently with the sensei, but the sensor is atrocious on a qck. Pulled out a kinzu and it is still more comfortable than the fk. In my opinion it's the hump in the back. Any suggestions?


The mouse you want does not exist. Save yourself some money and just stick with the Sensei until SS releases an optical version. Buy a hard pad instead. If you absolutely have to buy a new mouse you could try the ZA11, but you'll probably be disappointed.


----------



## YawMawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ah. Well that's not the first or last time that mix up is going to happen...


Even stupider is that they're both Blizzard Games. I guess Legacy of the Void must be coming out soon enough.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Mostly claw, can palm sometimes
> What's your sensitivity? 400-800dpi, always 1 ingame
> What's your maximum budget? About 50eur
> Do you want additional buttons? 2 on right side
> What games do you play? Mostly cs
> Do you mind about prediction? I hate accel
> Other relevant information: I'd like the sensor position to be lower than the perfect amount (I don't use my wrist when I play)
> I'm currently using a fk2. My aim is good but the shape cramps my hand to much. I pulled out my sensei to test if it still works and it is SO much more comfortable compared to my fk2. I can hit shots more consistently with the sensei, but the sensor is atrocious on a qck. Pulled out a kinzu and it is still more comfortable than the fk. In my opinion it's the hump in the back. Any suggestions?


Hand cramping because the mouse is too thin is a common complaint. Curious that you chose the thinner fk2 instead of the fk1.


----------



## PDXMark

What is a good replacement for the Logitech G500. Like the fit and feel, but paid $40 for it some years ago. Now they want $99 for a G500 and it's not worth that! What is a good alternative?


----------



## overclockerjames

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PDXMark*
> 
> What is a good replacement for the Logitech G500. Like the fit and feel, but paid $40 for it some years ago. Now they want $99 for a G500 and it's not worth that! What is a good alternative?


$99 for G700s


----------



## Titosfuneral

What's your grip style?
Fingertip, palm on mat. Hand low with little curve.
What's your sensitivity?
1600.
What's your maximum budget?
£50 but this could go a lot higher for the perfect mouse (see other relevant info)
Do you want additional buttons?
Sensitivity button would be nice.
What games do you play?
dying light, CSGO, l4d2, tf2, civ v
Do you mind about prediction?
Would prefer not, but mouse shape is more important
Other relevant information:
*Help*. I'm having a terrible time finding a new mouse for work and play. My hands are a bit screwed up from bone growth in the joints and all the mice I've tried have caused them to cramp terribly. I used a couple of Genius 335 Navigators for years but they no longer work.

Shape and weight is everything. It must be small, low and light. In an ideal world it would be under 10cm long, 5-5.5 cm wide, a max of 3 cm tall and weigh 65g or less.

I currently have a R.A.T.3 and it's just killing my hand. It's too high (3.5cm at the back), too long and way too wide (7cm)


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Titosfuneral*
> 
> Shape and weight is everything. It must be small, low and light. In an ideal world it would be under 10cm long, 5-5.5 cm wide, a max of 3 cm tall and weigh 65g or less.


Your ideal mouse is smaller and lighter than the Ninox Aurora, not a whole lot of mice that size on the gaming side of things. Aurora, Zowie Mico if you can find one (discontinued), and Azurues mini are potential options. Could try the Razer Orochi as well.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I believe the CM Spawn will also fit your requirements.


----------



## Dyaems

Any mice that has similar shape/dimensions (and probably weight too) as a Kinzu V2 Pro but with side buttons and macro function from software?


----------



## detto87

Take a look at the Zowie ZA13.


----------



## Dyaems

Thanks. I was looking at Zowie website and saw the FK2, which I might prefer over the ZA13 because of lower height. Not sure about the length though.. Although Zowie products have no software for macro functions, there is always the X-mouse for my macro needs


----------



## Titosfuneral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> Your ideal mouse is smaller and lighter than the Ninox Aurora, not a whole lot of mice that size on the gaming side of things. Aurora, Zowie Mico if you can find one (discontinued), and Azurues mini are potential options. Could try the Razer Orochi as well.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I believe the CM Spawn will also fit your requirements.


Thanks guys.. good suggestions. But I think I just got lucky. I found a random old razor salmosa pro gaming edition just now. Hopefully that'll do it.


----------



## Trippy

What's your grip style? Hybrid Palm/Claw
What's your sensitivity? 400dpi with 2 sens in CSGO
What's your maximum budget? $65-70
Do you want additional buttons? 5 button mouse
What games do you play? CSGO and very rarely MOBA's
Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction and also smoothing
Other relevant information: I currently am using a Deathadder 2013 but the middle mouse click is starting to double and triple click. I really like the shape of the mouse but I wish the sensor was a bit more raw. I have a Zowie FK1 that I used for a while and I really like the sensor but the shape of the mouse, the scroll wheel, and the Huano switches make me not want to use it. So I'm kind of looking for a mouse with a similar shape to the Deathadder but using preferably the 3310 sensor, Omron switches, and with good build quality. Other than that I don't really have any requirements. Suggestions?


----------



## Blaise170

What's your grip style? Fingertip/palm
What's your sensitivity? Doesn't matter
What's your maximum budget? $50
Do you want additional buttons? A few, don't need a Naga style pad though.
What games do you play? Singleplayer mostly, typically RPG, RTS, occasionally FPS and others
Do you mind about prediction? If it isn't that bad, then no.
Other relevant information: I'd prefer a wireless mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid Palm/Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 400dpi with 2 sens in CSGO
> What's your maximum budget? $65-70
> Do you want additional buttons? 5 button mouse
> What games do you play? CSGO and very rarely MOBA's
> Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction and also smoothing
> Other relevant information: I currently am using a Deathadder 2013 but the middle mouse click is starting to double and triple click. I really like the shape of the mouse but I wish the sensor was a bit more raw. I have a Zowie FK1 that I used for a while and I really like the sensor but the shape of the mouse, the scroll wheel, and the Huano switches make me not want to use it. So I'm kind of looking for a mouse with a similar shape to the Deathadder but using preferably the 3310 sensor, Omron switches, and with good build quality. Other than that I don't really have any requirements. Suggestions?


Interesting that you would rank the FK1's sensor over the DA2013's.

Could you provide a mousetester xvelocity graph comparison of the two mice? Directions here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/800_50#post_23912488

Do you have the razer drivers installed? If so, could you try uninstalling them (after saving the mousetester graphs) to see if that improves sensor performance?


----------



## Trippy

It's not necessarily that I think the sensor is worse I just feel more smoothing in it. Just kind of less raw feeling. I don't have the Synapse Drivers installed either, I'm not home right now but I will do the test that you said to do later.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

This is the context of my inquiry: http://www.overclock.net/t/1549160/deathadder-3-5g-4g-2013-review-and-comparison
Quote:


> Regarding the reports of horrible smoothing: some say it's only due to the drivers, and some say it's with or without the drivers. I didn't install any drivers for either mouse and I definitely don't have any kind of horrible smoothing with the 4G. So either a firmware update fixed it, or maybe there is a conflict on some people's PCs, or maybe there is variance between mice. I would guess a firmware update though.


----------



## Melan

I'd say a conflict on PC. Never installed razer drivers before (did it on mac though), played a bit, then installed them on PC to lower LOD. Can't tell the difference. Neither I can tell the difference between S3989 and 3366.


----------



## nirrr

What's your grip style? : *Somehwere between palm and finger tip grip*
What's your sensitivity? *I am used to a razer epic playing it a bit more then middle setting so decently fast.*
What's your maximum budget? *70 but i can go higher if its worth it*
Do you want additional buttons? *7 buttons is enough so having more buttons isnt necessary*
What games do you play? *play all types of games but this mouse will be moreso for poker (see below)*
Do you mind about prediction? *no clue what this is*
Other relevant information:

*just saw this thread. here is other info

-I play poker in 4 monitors and 10 + tables for 10 hours a day. So I am constantly moving my mouse back and forth between all 4 24inch screens. So the mouse speed has to be decently fast and very accurate. Also I am clicking roughly every second for 10 hours a day so the left mouse button has to be easy and soft to click. Prior to this I used razer naga epic which was good on my finger so anything similar will do(it broke on me so no more epics!)

Also i have small hands if that matters.*

*I was looking into the 602 but I heard its big and the 2500 dpi and 500hz turns me off. Both seems low compared to what I am used to which is razer epic . But will it make much difference?

So please make some suggestions.*


----------



## Trippy

I'm not sure how I was supposed to move the mouse but I alternated between left and right and up and down for a few seconds. My Deathadder is set to 400dpi @ 500hz with no drivers on Windows 7 SP1.



I did the same thing for the FK1 and the settings are 400 dpi @ 1000hz.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how I was supposed to move the mouse but I alternated between left and right and up and down for a few seconds. My Deathadder is set to 400dpi @ 500hz with no drivers on Windows 7 SP1.
> 
> 
> 
> I did the same thing for the FK1 and the settings are 400 dpi @ 1000hz.


Here are examples: http://www.overclock.net/t/1335226/review-of-the-deathadder-2013/300_50#post_23703760

You just hold the mouse button and move the mouse once really fast across the whole pad, then let go.


----------



## wiseG

What's your grip style? *Finger tip* with claws like look (big palms; ~20 cm from base till tip of middle finger)
What's your sensitivity? Mostly *low* everywhere. I lift mouse a lot.
What's your maximum budget? *50 €*, but I'm open to suggestions that exceed that.
Do you want additional buttons? *2 side buttons* is a must.
What games do you play? *FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? I'd prefer *as raw as possible*.
Other relevant information: ATM I'm using A4-Tech XL-747H. I do like it's size, shape, weight, main button shape, side button size/placement and LOD. Only problem with this mouse is it's performance. It can't handle fast movements. Skips frames heavily and tend to _crash_ (DPI on its own jumps down to like 100 and stays like that for some time) ***. I want mouse that can handle sudden and fast movements and is well built for it's price tag. I'm using QcK cloth pad. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. If You need additional information, ask.
*** Upd: I think this particular mouse is broken. Similar model X-748K does not behave like this. Still it would be interesting to see mice suggestions that fulfill requirements listed above.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wiseG*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Finger tip* with claws like look (big palms; ~20 cm from base till tip of middle finger)
> What's your sensitivity? Mostly *low* everywhere. I lift mouse a lot.
> What's your maximum budget? *50 €*, but I'm open to suggestions that exceed that.
> Do you want additional buttons? *2 side buttons* is a must.
> What games do you play? *FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? I'd prefer *as raw as possible*.
> Other relevant information: ATM I'm using A4-Tech XL-747H. I do like it's size, shape, weight, main button shape, side button size/placement and LOD. Only problem with this mouse is it's performance. It can't handle fast movements. Skips frames heavily and tend to _crash_ (DPI on its own jumps down to like 100 and stays like that for some time) ***. I want mouse that can handle sudden and fast movements and is well built for it's price tag. I'm using QcK cloth pad. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. If You need additional information, ask.
> *** Upd: I think this particular mouse is broken. Similar model X-748K does not behave like this. Still it would be interesting to see mice suggestions that fulfill requirements listed above.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## avalonmabi

1. What's your grip style?
I think its a hybrid palm/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
low to medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. I have had a Savu for 2 1/2 years and don't really use the extra buttons.

5. What games do you play?
SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
In all honesty I'm still confused about prediction. Whatever the savu has in terms of prediction is what I would prefer.

7. Other relevant information:
My savu is currently having issues double clicking after 2 1/2 years of use so I'm interested if there is anything out there someone could recommend that is similar to the savu. I would say the savu is the perfect mouse for me but would like to see what else is out there before buying another one. On a side note I bought a g400 before the savu and it was too big for my hand.


----------



## Fufu

What's your grip style? Fingertip/Palm
What's your sensitivity? High. High high high. Usually have settings on max.
What's your maximum budget? $35 -- Really looking to go as cheap as I can for something good/decent.
Do you want additional buttons? Not really.
What games do you play? Pretty much anything...Third-Person Shooter/Action, MOBA, FPS, Sidescroller Puzzle/Platform/Shooter, etc.
Do you mind about prediction? I don't think I'd want prediction, but can't say I've ever sat down and really compared them.
Other relevant information: Wired is a must. My hands are kinda big (current mouse is H: 41.5mm, W: 58mm, D: 122.5mm--wouldn't want anything smaller, pref similar size or slightly larger). I don't use a mouse pad.
Edit: I ended up going with the steelseries rival. Went to a b&m and it felt so good. Seems to be a high weight compared to what I usually see touted in the mouse review threads but felt pretty light to me. Love the size and the overall feel. Couple extra buttons on the side are kinda useful in some games but don't use them at all in others. Really happy. A bit over what my budget was, but when it felt so good, I decided to get it anyways.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> It's not necessarily that I think the sensor is worse I just feel more smoothing in it. Just kind of less raw feeling. I don't have the Synapse Drivers installed either, I'm not home right now but I will do the test that you said to do later.


Have you tried installing the drivers and updating the firmware?


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Have you tried installing the drivers and updating the firmware?


I have had synapse installed before but I never saw an option for updating the firmware. If you don't mind can you tell me where it's located in the app?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I'm not sure. If there's not an option I'd guess it checks and updates automatically. I've never installed it. But more recently manufactured ones should come with newer firmware. And I tested it pretty recently, so I probably got one with newer firmware, and maybe that's why I didn't have any issues.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Looks like I have to replace a Razer Deathadder Black Edition with something of more quality.

What's your grip style?
Forget the grip, I hold my backup mouse(old Cherry F670 from a wireless set) at Fingertips while I held the Deathadder much closer.
I think a smaller mouse than the DA would be good because I could never reach the forward side button with my thumb only the rear side button, to reach the forward one my hand would have to rest completely on the mouse what was totally uncomfortable.
What's your sensitivity?
High, I ran the DA with 500Mhz and I think 900 DPI with all sensitivity settings to max but Acceleration OFF and Win pointer speed to neutral, basically I tried to run it in the native setting for the sensor without letting Windows interfere with any any if its setting.
What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter, I just hope its worth the money because the last 2 DAs were rather short lived to what I had before.
Do you want additional buttons?
Besides Left, RIght & Wheel at least one for the thumb but I wouldn't mind more if they would be properly placed so they are no problem to reach.
What games do you play?
Almost everything, shooter, RTS, MMO, Strategy, etc. but I also want to use the mouse for Office or other desktop business too.
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction!
Other relevant information:
-No wireless mouse, should be normal USB.
-It should have a sensor that is without any prediction, acceleration or other crap that interferes with my movements or were the firmware/driver prohibits the uses of this.
-No glossy stuff in the area that fingers or hand could rest on, that lets my hand sweat like a pig.
-No lights or only if I can turn it off.


----------



## Audiopython

Hi overglock.net i'm new in here, i've been having trouble finding a mouse that actually fit me, i have hands in the larger end i believe around 20cm from middle finder to wrist, at the moment i'm using a g402, and i'm feeling like it's too small, the last time i had a form of a mouse i really loved it was the steelseries cataclysm with that horrible sensor, was great for mmo's though.

1: Grip style i believe i'm using some sort of plam/claw or palm/fingertip grip, i like larger mice, i've previousley owned logitech g9, rat7, steelseries cataclysm mmo, logitech g600, g500s, steelseries mmo mist of pandaria, g402.
the grip on my g402 (current) i feel like i have to cramp my hand to hold it, it's too narrow in front and perhaps a bit wide in the back, more into a \ / instead of a / \ grip. my thumb sometime starts cramping after i got the g402 never tried that before. also i feel like the g402 is too tall in the middle, and i've too little space on the right for my index and pinky.

2: sensitivity, i use a pretty high cpi, (learned alot the last couple of days from trawling these forums so the values here might change a bit seeing as i've now installed markc mouse fix and actually realised i had accelt turned on in windows (must be an adccident) 

i generelly use my g402 at around 3200 cpi, though i've been contemplating lowering it even further maybe 2800 or 2600 to start with see how it feels. generelly wanna get lower on my gaming speeds for better twitch precision









3: anything less then 130€ preferably as cheap as possible while having my criterias fulfilled

4: as long as they don't annoy me, for refference i could play cs with the steelseries cataclysm and found it a nice fit for my hand eventhough it had the buttons it didn't bother me during a game. sensor on the other hand

5: i play most game genres, at the moment i'm trying to enter the competative scene of smite, a new 3rd person moba, wich basicly means i need the precision of a fps mouse, and the comfort of a mmo mouse.

6: yes i'd prefer a raw input as i've been finding myself looking at my mouse thinking i didn't do that, did i? atleast with the mice i've owned that i now know have sensory problems

7: so i'm new in here i've been reading up on the forums lately in the search of a new mouse, damn this used to be easier once i was ignorrant and didn't know all the things i've read about here lately xD, but yeah i've read forums seen reviews for a couple days and i've been searching far and wide for all option i could find that seemed interresting, first of all it should be an optical, as you can see by my mouse history i've had plenty of lasers, then i got the g402 and now i'm good with optical just feels better to me ^^
this time around i'm looking for a mouse i'll love like i did my steelseries mmo cataclysm, the mouse didn't have a speck of paint and the clicks had been starting to fail for a long time b4 i finally had to get a new one, it is till date the most comfortable mouse i've had and i could spend 20+ hours with it and not have it become uncomfortable, sadly it had a crap sensor, but i was playing mmo at the time with 5k dpi so not a biggie for me at that time,
so far i've been looking at the ROCCAT Kone XTD optical, i've read it might have some "floaty" feel in the form of smoothening to it, can anyone confirm?
the mionix naos 7000, and the Qpad 8k pro graming optical use same sensor so i'd assume they close to being the same?
basicly what i need help with is wich mouse reminisses the steelseries mmo:cataclysm the most, the naos, the XTD or the Qpad? if anybody knows i'd be ever so happy, as i'm tired of struggeling with my mouse and it's been a couple of years where i haven't been able to find any ergonomic's that really fitted my needs, i must admit i didn't know much about either qpad mionix or roccat before i started searching i've mainly used steelseries and logitech in the past to great succes. but i just don't feel the rival fits me an i don't want more laser sensors

hope any1 can help me settle on a mouse as i don't have any stores besides in the other end of the country where i can test it (300km each way) and i doubt webshops are happy to get a opened and used mouse back if it doesn't fit me, and suggestions are welcome,


----------



## L4dd

*Audiopython*, the G303 or G502 should have the best tracking for your sensitivity, but I don't know if their physical properties suit you versus other mice.


----------



## Audiopython

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> *Audiopython*, the G303 or G502 should have the best tracking for your sensitivity, but I don't know if their physical properties suit you versus other mice.


They dont sadly when i picked up my g402 i chose it over the 502 cause it felt more narrow, and i find the 402 to be too small aswell i find myself hurting my wrist with the grip i use atm wich is some finger/claw grip im forced to use on it
And the 30x is too small aswell i believe, thats why im more on the look out of the naos qpad and xtd optical, they are in the size category i need to have a comfortable grip for extended periods of gaming i often sit with my mouse 10-14 hours a day so needs to be comfortable, i also want precision but if i cant stand the shell, precision doesnt matter much tbh, i want a precise mouse but id like one that i can hold without getting cramps in the thumb or feel pain from holding it
For extended peeiods of time as my g402 is giving me atm


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Audiopython*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi overglock.net i'm new in here, i've been having trouble finding a mouse that actually fit me, i have hands in the larger end i believe around 20cm from middle finder to wrist, at the moment i'm using a g402, and i'm feeling like it's too small, the last time i had a form of a mouse i really loved it was the steelseries cataclysm with that horrible sensor, was great for mmo's though.
> 
> 1: Grip style i believe i'm using some sort of plam/claw or palm/fingertip grip, i like larger mice, i've previousley owned logitech g9, rat7, steelseries cataclysm mmo, logitech g600, g500s, steelseries mmo mist of pandaria, g402.
> the grip on my g402 (current) i feel like i have to cramp my hand to hold it, it's too narrow in front and perhaps a bit wide in the back, more into a \ / instead of a / \ grip. my thumb sometime starts cramping after i got the g402 never tried that before. also i feel like the g402 is too tall in the middle, and i've too little space on the right for my index and pinky.
> 
> 2: sensitivity, i use a pretty high cpi, (learned alot the last couple of days from trawling these forums so the values here might change a bit seeing as i've now installed markc mouse fix and actually realised i had accelt turned on in windows (must be an adccident)
> 
> i generelly use my g402 at around 3200 cpi, though i've been contemplating lowering it even further maybe 2800 or 2600 to start with see how it feels. generelly wanna get lower on my gaming speeds for better twitch precision
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3: anything less then 130€ preferably as cheap as possible while having my criterias fulfilled
> 
> 4: as long as they don't annoy me, for refference i could play cs with the steelseries cataclysm and found it a nice fit for my hand eventhough it had the buttons it didn't bother me during a game. sensor on the other hand
> 
> 5: i play most game genres, at the moment i'm trying to enter the competative scene of smite, a new 3rd person moba, wich basicly means i need the precision of a fps mouse, and the comfort of a mmo mouse.
> 
> 6: yes i'd prefer a raw input as i've been finding myself looking at my mouse thinking i didn't do that, did i? atleast with the mice i've owned that i now know have sensory problems
> 
> 7: so i'm new in here i've been reading up on the forums lately in the search of a new mouse, damn this used to be easier once i was ignorrant and didn't know all the things i've read about here lately xD, but yeah i've read forums seen reviews for a couple days and i've been searching far and wide for all option i could find that seemed interresting, first of all it should be an optical, as you can see by my mouse history i've had plenty of lasers, then i got the g402 and now i'm good with optical just feels better to me ^^
> this time around i'm looking for a mouse i'll love like i did my steelseries mmo cataclysm, the mouse didn't have a speck of paint and the clicks had been starting to fail for a long time b4 i finally had to get a new one, it is till date the most comfortable mouse i've had and i could spend 20+ hours with it and not have it become uncomfortable, sadly it had a crap sensor, but i was playing mmo at the time with 5k dpi so not a biggie for me at that time,
> so far i've been looking at the ROCCAT Kone XTD optical, i've read it might have some "floaty" feel in the form of smoothening to it, can anyone confirm?
> the mionix naos 7000, and the Qpad 8k pro graming optical use same sensor so i'd assume they close to being the same?
> basicly what i need help with is wich mouse reminisses the steelseries mmo:cataclysm the most, the naos, the XTD or the Qpad? if anybody knows i'd be ever so happy, as i'm tired of struggeling with my mouse and it's been a couple of years where i haven't been able to find any ergonomic's that really fitted my needs, i must admit i didn't know much about either qpad mionix or roccat before i started searching i've mainly used steelseries and logitech in the past to great succes. but i just don't feel the rival fits me an i don't want more laser sensors
> 
> hope any1 can help me settle on a mouse as i don't have any stores besides in the other end of the country where i can test it (300km each way) and i doubt webshops are happy to get a opened and used mouse back if it doesn't fit me, and suggestions are welcome,


I've had the same experience with the 502 being too narrow and thus causing cramps.

The FM is one of the top 3 sensors on the market, and is very light and has a decent shape. I'd recommend it.


----------



## renji1337

What's your grip style? Claw, fingertip when gaming
What's your sensitivity? 1600 dpi. I use 1600 dpi at 0.65 sens in cs go for example
What's your maximum budget? 100$
Do you want additional buttons? I like them
What games do you play? WoW, CS GO, BF4 etc
Do you mind about prediction? I don't want it
Other relevant information:
I currently have a CM storm spawn and Mionix Avior. I like the avior but idk if it feels to small or not. I'm a fat guy so idk if my hands are big or not. I thought i was purely claw grip but when I play cs go, my palm doesn't touch the mousepad SOMETIMES it does, but when it does it looks like im fingertipping with my palm on the pad.

During wow since i use my side buttons though I am constantly clawing. basically claw/fingertip mixture, another tidbit of information is that if i use the cm storm spawn i claw it 70% fingertip 30, with the avior i'm 40% claw/60% fingertip


----------



## L4dd

*renji1337*, does the G303 shape suit you?


----------



## NicoNicoNii

*What's your grip style?* I use a palm/claw hybrid grip, and have small hands, ~17 cm.

*What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi

*What's your maximum budget?* $60-$70

*Do you want additional buttons?* I prefer to have a mouse 4/5 button for forward/back while surfing on the internet, but it's not a requirement and can go without them. I do not really need more than 5 buttons.

*What games do you play?* League of Legends and CS:GO

*Do you mind about prediction?* Only if it's not super noticeable, otherwise no prediction is best.

*Other relevant information:*
The G100s shape is the most comfortable mouse I've ever used. I had one a few years ago but the right click eventually started double clicking and I got a new mouse. Since then, I've been through a Sensei Raw (didn't like the shape, too wide and low), a Deathadder (it was ok, kinda big for my small hands), and a Zowie FK2 (great mouse, but yet again the shape isn't that comfortable, my hand cramps up while using it but the sensor is amazing







). I've been looking at these mice: Zowie ZA13, Roccat Kone Pure Military, Logitech G303 and G502, ROG Sica, and maybe just going back to the G100s, even though I'd have to buy a new one every time the clicks went bad. I LOVE the G100s shape, it fits my hand perfectly, it feels like it's an extension of my arm and I don't even notice it when I'm gaming









The FK2 is a great mouse like I said, but the shape is too low for me in the back, which is why I was thinking of the ZA13. The way I hold my mouse is that I have most of my palm rest on the back end of the mouse, with my thumb and ring finger gripping the sides of it, and my index/middle finger in somewhat of a claw position, with my pinky not even on the mouse, just chillin on the mouse pad. The FK2 is just not comfortable for my grip because it's so low that my palm can't really touch the mouse at all. I'm not that big of a fan of the Huano switches either, and the fact that I can't find one for less than $70 is pretty sad.

The Roccat KPM was my front runner for new mouse until I read about issues it had with lifting off the mouse and sensitivity changing or something. I've seen some people saying it can be fixed by changing some settings, is this true and will Roccat ever release some update to the firmware to fix it? I was really excited about this mouse until I learned about these problems, which kinda turned me off to it, but if it can be fixed easily then I'd love to buy one.

The G303 and G502 is all up to shape. I'm not sure I'd like it, and I've been planning on going to my "local" (it's really far away







) Best Buy to try out the shapes of these mice, and the sensor looks amazing and the software looks like it is well implemented. I've read about the shape a lot and it seems like the majority of people dislike the shape but the mouse besides that is great. The G502 looks pretty big and bulky, and I'm used to small and light weight mice so I'm also not sure about it either.

The ROG Sica hasn't come out yet in the U.S. afaik, but it looks to be almost the exact shape of the G100s so I'm pretty excited about it. I've heard of some issues with the shell and with the clicks on this mouse, and there isn't much information about this mouse on the internet at all so I'm not completely sold on it.

Lastly, I've been thinking about just going back to my tried and true G100s, but I'm not looking forward to the reliability of the thing. Many many people seem to have issues with the clicks double clicking, squeaking, sticking, etc. and it happened to mine a year or two ago which is why I moved away from it. Has Logitech fixed this issue? Also, the sensor isn't the greatest and I have to play on a higher dpi (1000 compared to my usual 800) on this mouse because I've heard using the software makes the different dpi settings interpolated. But the shape of this mouse is just way too good. If Logitech came out with a G100s with some side buttons, and the sensor from the G303, I would instantly cum everywhere once I heard about that









Sorry for the long post, I've been searching for my perfect mouse for a while, and I take my gaming peripherals pretty seriously







Any help?


----------



## Audiopython

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I've had the same experience with the 502 being too narrow and thus causing cramps.
> 
> The FM is one of the top 3 sensors on the market, and is very light and has a decent shape. I'd recommend it.


FM? is that the final mouse or?


----------



## dwnfall

What's your grip style? Varies based on mouse so doesn't matter. Fingertip hybrid mostly.
What's your sensitivity? 2200 DPI
What's your maximum budget? 100
Do you want additional buttons? Not necessary
What games do you play? LoL mainly
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure
Other relevant information: I want something easy to spam click and a shape that keeps my thumb close to my index finger (meaning I don't have to use much thumb strength to grip the mouse)


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Audiopython*
> 
> FM? is that the final mouse or?


Yes, Finalmouse.


----------



## Audiopython

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yes, Finalmouse.


ok thanks







i don't know... i got nothing to compare the shape with there is no dealers in my country, and i can't afford buying several mice, and the danish return policy is apparently i can't test my mouse if the skates are used i can't return it, atleast in the webshops that have the mice i've been looking for, and i'm tired of spending 100€ on something i don't want








i'd just really like to know if theres smoothening on the kone xtd optical if yes, then wich resembles the steelseries cataclysm the most in grip, naos 7000 or qpad 8k optical gaming mouse if anybody owned both, otherwise i'll figure out wich one of those i pick


----------



## servasky

*What's your grip style?* Claw grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 1300 windows and Dota2, 600-700 fps
*What's your maximum budget?* 100€
*Do you want additional buttons?* 2 left side
*What games do you play?* Some fps and Dota 2
*Do you mind about prediction?* No prediction
*Other relevant information:* My last mouse was a Steelseries Sensei (i like it), i dont know if buy another one or there are better choices.

Thanks


----------



## Screwball

Is there anything that is basically a slightly smaller and lighter Deathadder but without the stupid rubber sides?


----------



## Br3chtel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> Is there anything that is basically a slightly smaller and lighter Deathadder but without the stupid rubber sides?


Yeah Zowie EC-1A or 2A (2A is a tad smaller), I'm using 2A and my hands are about 18cm, it's quiet comfy and feels sturdy


----------



## Kioj89

1. What's your grip style?

Claw/FIngertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

800DPi

3. What's your maximum budget?

30-40 €

4. Do you want additional buttons?

No

5. What games do you play?

League of Legends, Starcraft 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction

Thanks in advance


----------



## velm

Hello! I'm having an issue finding a mouse that fits my special needs!

What's your grip style? I'm using a hybrid between palm and claw.
What's your sensitivity? 50 cm / 360 according to notalent.org (6/11, 800DPI, 1.04 ingame CS:GO)
What's your maximum budget? None
Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Yes

I want something that has onboard memory so I dont need to install drivers on the computer I'm on. The Logitech G400, for example is not a good fit for me, due to the fact that I need need to install its gaming software in order to disable/rebind the DPI changing buttons.

I've used everything from Ikari to all Kinzu versions(except the V3) to Xai to Abyssus to Logitech G400. The problem I'm having is that all these mice are too easy to click. This causes me to click away two bullets (or even three) in games, when I actually intended to shoot one. This has been a problem during all my time playing all different versions of Counter-Strike. Lately I've been using Kana V2 and CM Storm Alcor, they both have the 3090 and it's awesome in my opinion, as long as I'm using a Steelseries QcK+ and not a multi colored one. If there's a mouse with "harder" clicks that works on a multicolored surface I wouldn't complain. The shape of the mouse is probably something I can get used to, if it has any kind of 'harder' clicks that I'm talking about. Is there a mouse out there that has clicks that aren't so 'easy' to double tap for a clumpsy clicker like me? Or is there anything I can do to fix the problem at hand with the mice that I already own?

Thanks in advance! First post at this forum btw, been lurking for years.


----------



## Cannon19932006

1.What's your grip style? claw or palm, both work for me.

2.What's your sensitivity? 6/11, 1800dpi(I don't mind changing this), 1.8 csgo

3.What's your maximum budget? $100 (amazon only please)

4.Do you want additional buttons? Yes I require at least 1 side button

5.What games do you play? The mouse is most important for first person shooters, my Deathadder 3.5g is wearing out and I was never happy with it's build quality.

6.Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction, 0 prediction, and 0 acceleration is a must.

7.Other relevant information: Larger mice are better for my hand size.


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kioj89*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Claw/FIngertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800DPi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> 30-40 €
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> No
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> League of Legends, Starcraft 2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No prediction
> 
> Thanks in advance


Razer Abyssus 2014 sounds like a fit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velm*
> 
> Hello! I'm having an issue finding a mouse that fits my special needs!
> 
> What's your grip style? I'm using a hybrid between palm and claw.
> What's your sensitivity? 50 cm / 360 according to notalent.org (6/11, 800DPI, 1.04 ingame CS:GO)
> What's your maximum budget? None
> Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> 
> I want something that has onboard memory so I dont need to install drivers on the computer I'm on. The Logitech G400, for example is not a good fit for me, due to the fact that I need need to install its gaming software in order to disable/rebind the DPI changing buttons.
> 
> I've used everything from Ikari to all Kinzu versions(except the V3) to Xai to Abyssus to Logitech G400. The problem I'm having is that all these mice are too easy to click. This causes me to click away two bullets (or even three) in games, when I actually intended to shoot one. This has been a problem during all my time playing all different versions of Counter-Strike. Lately I've been using Kana V2 and CM Storm Alcor, they both have the 3090 and it's awesome in my opinion, as long as I'm using a Steelseries QcK+ and not a multi colored one. If there's a mouse with "harder" clicks that works on a multicolored surface I wouldn't complain. The shape of the mouse is probably something I can get used to, if it has any kind of 'harder' clicks that I'm talking about. Is there a mouse out there that has clicks that aren't so 'easy' to double tap for a clumpsy clicker like me? Or is there anything I can do to fix the problem at hand with the mice that I already own?
> 
> Thanks in advance! First post at this forum btw, been lurking for years.


Zowie ZA11








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cannon19932006*
> 
> 1.What's your grip style? claw or palm, both work for me.
> 
> 2.What's your sensitivity? 6/11, 1800dpi(I don't mind changing this), 1.8 csgo
> 
> 3.What's your maximum budget? $100 (amazon only please)
> 
> 4.Do you want additional buttons? Yes I require at least 1 side button
> 
> 5.What games do you play? The mouse is most important for first person shooters, my Deathadder 3.5g is wearing out and I was never happy with it's build quality.
> 
> 6.Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction, 0 prediction, and 0 acceleration is a must.
> 
> 7.Other relevant information: Larger mice are better for my hand size.


Zowie ZA11, Steelseries Rival


----------



## ayaname

What's your grip style?
Claw grip
What's your sensitivity?
400-450 on csgo. Around 800++ for normal use
What's your maximum budget?
$70
Do you want additional buttons?
Standard macro buttons on the left will do. Dpi on the fly switching
What games do you play?
Csgo. Dota2. Fps&RTS
Do you mind about prediction?
N/a
Other relevant information:
I have a large hands. Pàlms tends to be sweaty sometimes. I dont want wireless


----------



## muwaji

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 3-4 sens 450dpi csgo
What's your maximum budget? unlimited
Do you want additional buttons? doesn't matter.
What games do you play? FPS mainly, singleplayer games aswell
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
Other relevant information: I like the sensei raw, great mouse. However i palm it and i would like a ambedextrious mouse with a similiar shape as the Sensei Raw, which i can palm - a sensei with a higher butt. Sensor doesn't really matter, just that the shape is good and that it works good on hardpads. ZA-series is pretty good but a little too narrow for me i guess, want something a little more wide. Anyone know a good one?


----------



## detto87

EC1-A / EC2-A obviously.
Beware of bad side buttons and faulty mwheels though.


----------



## Space Marine

Hi guys, i'd really use some suggestions about a few mouse models to check out before buying.

I have been using my trusty Logitech MX310 for the last 12 years, overclocked to 500hz, but a recent update to Arma3's battleeye doesn't like anymore the windows driver test mode needed for overclocking the usb port, so im looking for a mouse which natively supports 1000hz in their official drivers.

What's your grip style?
*Claw - Fingertips*

What's your sensitivity?
*My mx310 has been running at 400dpi for the last 12 years, but i wouldnt mind changing, if it's for the best.*

What's your maximum budget?
*If it has to last another 12 years, no limits, but it has to be built like a tank.*

Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes, some, at least 2, 4 would be perfect*

What games do you play?
*FPS and RTS*

Do you mind about prediction?
*I do mind*, im looking for an *absolutely flawless sensor*

Other relevant information:
*- Possibly built like a tank
- light
- usable on a wooden table without mat
- decent software which doesnt add lag, or being able to use all the mouse functions and capabilities without any software at all
- no lag on clicks*

I have heard about the G303, the Zowie FK series, the mionix avior, the CM storm spawn, but i'm not really sure if i'm looking at the right direction.
Any other suggestion, or any critic against these models is welcome


----------



## rpalmer92

What's your grip style? *Hybrid*
What's your sensitivity? *34.6cm / 360 (400dpi / sens 3)*
What's your maximum *budget? Don't really have one as I want to find THE mouse, just can't afford to keep buying and selling or returning them lol*
Do you want additional buttons? *Don't really care about side buttons, don't use them*
What games do you play? *CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes, no prediction pls*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

*I just wrote this to Maximilian on one of his YouTube videos, so I'll just post it here as it has relevant info:*

_Hey man,

I used a G400s for a while, loved the shape but couldn't stand the smoothing feel and the cord started playing up, so changed to a DA Chroma and now it feels really weird to grip compared to the G400s. I cramp up and there's no good placement for my ring and pinky fingers - add the sweating and it's overall a bad experience. (Don't recommend G400s again as I don't like smoothing and now have Razer keyboard and mouse pad and my OCD won't allow Razer and Logitech to go together







)

A few things:
- I'm a hybrid gripper with about a 20cm hand size, my grip changes regularly from full palm to claw to lifting palm right up and doing little movements with just fingers
- Nearly every mouse I have tried feels weird on the ring and pinky finger except for the G400s and I think the Intellimouse 1.1 felt pretty good too (used to have one at work)
- I like light mice for micro aiming and stopping quickly on a big flick

Do you think I'd like the FM2015 and would you recommend it? I am very sensitive to smoothing and other weird sensor things happening. I am all about precision as I am a tapper with AK47 in CS:GO.

My options are basically this FM2015 SE and Zowie ZA11. I've been thinking about FK1 but I'm worried the more middle-ized hump will feel weird. I think I like a high, further back hump like on G400 to support my palm whilst clawing. But then again, maybe I'll like the flatter middle... who knows!

Hope to hear back from you!_


----------



## bobkami123

Hi, I am looking for a potential new mouse. I've been using a Deathadder for around 3 years now

What's your grip style?

Palm, have pretty large hands too

What's your sensitivity?

1200-1400
What's your maximum budget?

$50
Do you want additional buttons?

A few would be nice
What games do you play?

LoL, PoE, Osu, occasionally will play FPS games and Dota 2
Do you mind about prediction?

No acceleration at all please
Other relevant information:

Braided cord, Rubber, Prefer no drivers


----------



## ComputAni

Hi! I'm a light gamer (FPS/Moba) and I program a lot. I"m looking to buy a new mouse. I've been looking around and so far I've liked two mice in particular: Cougar 700m and Logitech G502. Are there any other mouses that are aesthetically similar to these two that I should consider?

Grip Style: Palm, small-medium ish hands

Sensitivity: Anything is fine for now

Price range: Under $100

Buttons: Bonus but not necessary

Games: LoL,Dota2,MW3,CSGO,MW2 (lol)

Other: Wired or wireless, doesn't matter

Thanks


----------



## Above8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ComputAni*
> 
> Hi! I'm a light gamer (FPS/Moba) and I program a lot. I"m looking to buy a new mouse. I've been looking around and so far I've liked two mice in particular: Cougar 700m and Logitech G502. Are there any other mouses that are aesthetically similar to these two that I should consider?
> 
> Grip Style: Palm, small-medium ish hands
> 
> Sensitivity: Anything is fine for now
> 
> Price range: Under $100
> 
> Buttons: Bonus but not necessary
> 
> Games: LoL,Dota2,MW3,CSGO,MW2 (lol)
> 
> Other: Wired or wireless, doesn't matter
> 
> Thanks


If you don't mind using hard mouse pads:
http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Catz-R-A-T-TE-Tournament-Edition/dp/B00IAQ55ZG
Price: $47.41 & FREE Shipping.
Good price and very good sensor.


----------



## el-jorge

What's your grip style?
hybrid palm/ claw where I like to rest the end of my palm on my mouse.

What's your sensitivity?
Not sure, I don't think too high, I now have a Cyborg RAT MMO, DPI is mostly around 1600

What's your maximum budget?
EUR 100

Do you want additional buttons?
a few.

What games do you play?
It is for office and work use, and little bit of gaming

Do you mind about prediction?
Not really

Other relevant information:
I do really like the shape of my Cyborg RAT MMO. I dislike the laser sensor, the philips twineye 6400 dpi.
I have owned a Logitech G700, but that mouse is too big in hight, to much a palm grip mouse for my taste.

So I'm looking for a low and wide mouse for office/ work use.

I do really like the shape and layout of my Cyborg RAT MMO. I really like how the buttons work, and the manner you can appoint the buttons. I dislike the laser sensor, the philips twineye 6400 dpi. The mouse loses frequently the vertical position. I'm not fond of mice like the Logitech G600 where there is a block of buttons. I do really like the looks of the Logitech G602.

I have owned a Logitech G700, but that mouse is too big in hight, to much a palm grip mouse for my taste. Same goes for the Roccat Kone Optical.
I have owned the corsair Sabre, but that mouse was a little bit too short, so I couldn't rest the back of my palm.


----------



## saint19

Hi guys...

Some advice here.

1. What's your grip style?

Palm grip

2. What's your sensitivity?

I play BF4 and mostly FPS, so, I think that I am in medium.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Around 70 or less

4. Do you want additional buttons?

No, 5 buttons is fine for me.

5. What games do you play?

FPS mostly, BF3, BF4, COD, Sniper Elite I also play GTA V, GRID and similars.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

No, I think than this doesn't help really. I am right?

7. Other relevant information:

I bought a QCK mouse pad model 63004.

Do you think that is good for my needs? Or should I return it and get the heavy version or what other do you suggest?

Thanks.


----------



## awesomesauce

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip*

What's your sensitivity?
*Default windows, 400 dpi, 2.6 CSGO*

What's your maximum budget?
*$100*

Do you want additional buttons?
*I would prefer 2 extra buttons for web navigation but it isn't neccessary
*

What games do you play?
*CS:GO*

Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes I absolutely mind prediction and would like a mouse without it.*


----------



## Eleore

*What's your grip style?*
-I basically pinch the back of the mouse between the bases of my thumb and my pinky. I like to call it the crab/pincer grip








*What's your sensitivity?*
-900 DPI, 1 sensitivity with raw input in CS:GO.
*What's your maximum budget?*
-80€.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
-I'd like to have at least one for voIP.
*What games do you play?*
-CS:GO pretty much exclusively.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
-Yes. Very much so.
*Other relevant information:*
-Given my unusual grip, _I need a mouse with a thin tail_ (~55-60mm wide at most) that's not too flat either(more vertical sides are better). I have large-ish hands (20cm) but the length of the mouse matters little with my grip; anything shorter than the G303 won't do, but otherwise it's fine.
-I have dry hands; as long as the mouse is not slippery I can cope with any coating/finish. I have heard the transparent plastic on the G303 is quite slippery; I would to hear it from owners of the mouse, as it is crucial for me.
-I use the 9HD, I have used 3310 and S3988 mice on it and have not had any tracking/LOD issues but you never know.
Edit: EVGA X5 Optical and Ninox Aurora seem to fit the bill. They're both out of stock in France, though.








Edit²: After trying a G303, it seems the shape is adequate as well. Probably getting this one then.


----------



## HiCZoK

What's your grip style?
Fingertip. Maybe claw
What's your sensitivity?
1600 is good enough for me
What's your maximum budget?
about 50$.
Do you want additional buttons?
Don't care about many buttons. Prefer plain mouse
What games do you play?
All kind. But none competively.
Do you mind about prediction?
I like to do long, smooth cinematic pans with the camera if that matters. I don't draw or anything like that.
Other relevant information:
I like to use mouse driverless. Just as is. Don't want to clutter my system with lgs. I sometimes like acceleration and sometimes not... I walways wanted to teach myself playing without acceleration. I currently have old G400 but MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION - I've changed my desk and I am now limited to 38mm height !!! So that limits my options severly
Edit:
Those came up from my research: G100s, G302, Some Roccat mice like LUA, SAVU or KOVA (but I can't find their dimensions), Steelseries Kinzu v3. I bet I've missed many more. Of all those, Roccat LUA and SAVU are cheapest. Then G100s and 302. steelseries are most expensive. G303 is also more expensive obviously


----------



## SunshineCat

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip/claw hybrid
*
What's your sensitivity?
*Pretty low sensitivity, I'm not set on it yet
*
What's your maximum budget?
*About $100 NZD (66USD converted, but electronics are more expensive over here) - but there are a lot of sales currently, so just suggest away
*
Do you want additional buttons?
*One or two please
*
What games do you play?
*CS GO
*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes, if it's noticable
*
Other relevant information:
*Light, wired, good buttons and scroll wheel obviously, COMFORTABLE FOR MY SMALL HANDS (15cm/6" from middle finger to bottom of palm*)


----------



## JellyWaiter

1. What's your grip style? It's kinda a palm/claw hybrid(?) usually. I'm currently on a G9x and the grip is kinda like a claw, but less of the sharp curve in the fingers in the picture. I think it's because the mouse is so small. I've also used another weird grip, where I just have the ball of my hand and the fingers relaxed on the mouse. Again, I think I've just adapted the palm grip to the smaller size.

2. What's your sensitivity? 1600 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget? $100. (This includes a mouse pad.)

4. Do you want additional buttons? I don't need them, but as long as it doesn't look too garish I'm okay with it.

5. What games do you play? RPGs and FPSs, and maybe turn based strategy, most often, but I play most things.

6. Do you mind about prediction? I'd like none.

7. Other/Mouse pad relevant information: I currently have a 4HD mouse pad, but I'm opening up space on my desk, so if you could, recommend a mouse pad that goes well with the mouse you recommend. I don't really have any preferences for the mouse pad, but clear something up for me, I feel like with a metal mouse pad it would be really scratchy feeling/sounding, and the sound of things scratching against metal makes me really uncomfortable. Is that actually how it is, or not? Thanks for any help!


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?*
Default pointer speed in Windows with enhanced pointer precision with an IME 3.0
*What's your maximum budget?*
$250 USD
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Backward/Forward only is preferred with a scroll wheel
*What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS games
*Do you mind about prediction?*
See below.
*Other relevant information:*
I'd like a mouse as close as possible to the IME 3.0. These just don't last very long (6-9 months) and I'm concerned in the future they won't be available. I'm also not really familiar with new mice (as I've always just re-bought IMEs twice a year and ignored others) and I was wondering if there are any more expensive mice that aren't necessarily labeled as "gaming" mice that I may like (similar to my keyboard for example, a Topre Realforce, not really made for gaming but great build quality and comfort, much preferred over all the cheaper Cherry MX switches I've tried before).


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxdarkreap3rxx*
> 
> I'd like a mouse as close as possible to the IME 3.0.


Do you mean shape or sensor-wise? (arguably) nothing will quite match the feel of the sensor, especially in FPS games. I'll just list some mice in no particular order that could possibly fit the bill for you (3.0-ish shapes w/ solid tracking):

-Razer Deathadder '13/Chroma
-FinalMouse 2015
-SteelSeries Rival
-Zowie EC1-A
-Logitech G402

Should be a good start. Sensor-wise, all those mice are among the best in class (as far as what's currently on the market) so just research/test them to see what you'd potentially like the best. If you have any questions about them they're all popular around here so I'm sure someone can answer.


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Do you mean shape or sensor-wise? (arguably) nothing will quite match the feel of the sensor, especially in FPS games. I'll just list some mice in no particular order that could possibly fit the bill for you (3.0-ish shapes w/ solid tracking):
> 
> -Razer Deathadder '13/Chroma
> -FinalMouse 2015
> -SteelSeries Rival
> -Zowie EC1-A
> -Logitech G402
> 
> Should be a good start. Sensor-wise, all those mice are among the best in class (as far as what's currently on the market) so just research/test them to see what you'd potentially like the best. If you have any questions about them they're all popular around here so I'm sure someone can answer.


Weight, shape, sensor. For the time being I bought another IME 3.0 but I'd like to look into other possibilities as well


----------



## MaximilianKohler

What the hell are you doing to your mice that they only last for 9 months.......

I've had one for like 8 years or something. And I'm pretty sure the warranty is at least 1 year.


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

No idea, the plastic that makes contact with the left mouse button sensor always ends up wearing out :/


----------



## MaximilianKohler

the plastic that makes contact with the left mouse button sensor ??


----------



## rlywhocares

Please suggest me ANY gaming-grade mice you know with some good precise sensor for fps-games with dimensions 105x60x40 max except those which are listed below, cuz I'm aware of them:

1. I already own Roccat Pyra wired, so you can check it out from your list if it was there
2. Team Scorpion Zealot & Zealot Jr.
3. Razer Salmosa PGE
4. Commatech Fk mini 3 - looking forward to try it out soon when I find a way to buy it from taobao
5. CM Storm Xornet or Spawn - tried 'em too
6. Zowie MICO
7. Logitech G9x
8. A4tech X710MK or 750MK
9. i will add if i remember that i forgot to mension something

Ultimately, I'm looking for a mouse with Pyra or Mico size, shape & dimensions but with sensor better, than their 3305DK-H & no glue-all-over-the-place issue. So I guess, I know what i'm looking for. Just feel that I don't know about some mice & need help in this part of my search

Any addition to the list will be much appreciated


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hella*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *F u r u y a*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Click to expand...


Claw/Fingertip hybrid (palm is against butt of mouse in rest position, otherwise it's basically fingertip). I have large, wide pianist hands (about 6 inches from base to tip of middle finger, palm is about 3 inches wide)
200-600 depending on what I'm doing.
We'll say unlimited for now to open up some options.
Don't really care.
TERA, Nuclear Throne, some TF2.
No prediction please. Make it as raw as possible. I do photoshop fairly often w/ a mouse to do small fixes so raw sensors are fantastic for small movements.
Nothing really, though with my grip I guess I should be asking for a lower midhump so I can extend my fingers out further without hitting the mouse.


----------



## Trippy

1. Hybrid Claw/Palm

2. 400 dpi (2 sens @ 400 dpi in CSGO)

3. $60 USD

4. Left/Right Click, Scroll Wheel w/ Click, and two side buttons is all I use.

5. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, and that's the only game I care about tailoring my choice towards.

6. Looking for a mouse with a sensor that is as 1:1 movement wise as possible.

7. I have used the Death adder series for a long time and I just don't feel comfortable with the shape anymore. I have a SS Sensei but I just can't use it I feel the accell every time I try and make a shot that I do all the time (flicks for example), and right now I'm using the Zowie FK1 and it's almost perfect except the scroll wheel is a POS (randomly stays between one notch and the next and will make me jump out of nowhere when I'm trying to frag in CS, also the mouse clicks are too stiff and delayed for me. So that said my perfect mouse would be something like the FK1 just with that problems fixed (also open to try the G303 if you think it would work well for me.)


----------



## shfj

What modern mouse is closest in shape to the ime 3? Is the ec1/2-a close?

Edit: I just realised someone already asked this on the same page... My bad.


----------



## stryker7314

Current mouse is G9x, looking into optical because it's "better" I'm hearing.

1. What's your grip style? Mostly Claw, some palm









2. What's your sensitivity? Don't know, always switch sensitivity on my mouse depending on the situation in game

3. What's your maximum budget? none really

4. Do you want additional buttons? MOAR!!! sure just started playing ESO and it might be beneficial









5. What games do you play? FPS, MMORPG, Everything really, FOTM

6. Do you mind about prediction? I hear it's no bueno but I guess I've been dealing with it on the G9x?

7. Other relevant information: Prefer wired for lower latency, high build quality would be nice


----------



## Jo0

So I'm on my 4th Razer Deathadder. I'm tired of the build quality and finicky buttons. Looking for the next best thing.
Quote:


> *What's your grip style?* Palm
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?* 6 in windows. 1000 dpi, 0 accel, and 1000 polling in razer config. 1.2 in cs1.6 @ 1024x768, 1.45 in csgo @ 1080p.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?* Doesn't matter. I want the best performance for the money.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Sure as long as I have the thumb buttons.
> 
> *What games do you play?* CS1.6 and CSGO mainly
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?* As raw as possible please
> 
> *Other relevant information* I love the shape of the deathadder. I'm just tired of my thumb buttons breaking or having thumb double click issues. Tired of having wheel issues. Tired of the overall direction the build quality has become.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> 1. Hybrid Claw/Palm
> 
> 2. 400 dpi (2 sens @ 400 dpi in CSGO)
> 
> 3. $60 USD
> 
> 4. Left/Right Click, Scroll Wheel w/ Click, and two side buttons is all I use.
> 
> 5. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, and that's the only game I care about tailoring my choice towards.
> 
> 6. Looking for a mouse with a sensor that is as 1:1 movement wise as possible.
> 
> 7. I have used the Death adder series for a long time and I just don't feel comfortable with the shape anymore. I have a SS Sensei but I just can't use it I feel the accell every time I try and make a shot that I do all the time (flicks for example), and right now I'm using the Zowie FK1 and it's almost perfect except the scroll wheel is a POS (randomly stays between one notch and the next and will make me jump out of nowhere when I'm trying to frag in CS, also the mouse clicks are too stiff and delayed for me. So that said my perfect mouse would be something like the FK1 just with that problems fixed (also open to try the G303 if you think it would work well for me.)


Have you looked at the Zowie ZA series? They are a bit higher at the rear and have lighter clicks than the FK series with reduced click delay.


----------



## Trippy

Has there been any problems with the scroll wheel? Because my FK1 scroll wheel sucks, and the Customer service from Zowie is horrible so I don't want to buy something that will need to be serviced.


----------



## e4stw00t

My FK's wheel is kind of okay - the ZA one is noticably worse but that could be just the case on the ones I received - generally though it seems the ZA scroll wheel has at least as often flaws as the FK ones out there. If you dislike the one on your FK I would suggest not to go for the ZA.


----------



## LzbeL

I guys, I want cheap mouse for FPS games.

What's your grip style? palm grip
What's your sensitivity? 2.45 with 400dpi
What's your maximum budget? 30$
Do you want additional buttons? Lateral, but is not obligatory
What games do you play? FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Yes

I want mouse with 500-1000hz... if I dont want IMO 1.1 is because I dont use w7 and... no overclock mouse rate.


----------



## YawMawn

Fingertip grip. Fairly large hands. RTS primarily.

I've heard that the Razer Deathadder is the way to go?


----------



## Nimbus

hey guys, a little stuck at the moment on what to get. Was going to try the cm spawn until I discovered they've discontinued it. I've been using a Mionix naos 3200 for a couple of years because I've got quite large hands, it's been okay but I think it was definitely built for palm grip. I have quite long, thin fingers which doesn't seem to suit any mouse so I've decided to move away from palm gripping altogether. So here's my list:

1. What's your grip style? Hybrid between claw and fingertip - from base of fingers to tips rests on mouse, but I move it with my pinky and thumb.

2. What's your sensitivity? Currently set to 3200

3. What's your maximum budget? Probably $50 AU (about 40 US)

4. Do you want additional buttons? Yes, foreward and back for web pages

5. What games do you play? LOL, DOTA2, Skyrim

6. Do you mind about prediction? I'd really like something with an ergonomic design, but if that's not possible, just something as comfortable as possible!

7. Other relevant information:
Lightweight if possible, as I tend to pick up my mouse a lot to bring it back to neutral position. Rubberised finish again if possible.
I also really don't like tiny mice, I've just found that there's nothing to hold onto. I know what I've just described seems to really fit that, but I like to space my hand out as much as I can. Maybe a minimum of 70 mm wide?
Also, this might be a longshot for the pricerange, but I love a good feeling click, such as what the naos 3200 has. I tried a steelseries sensei raw once and it was just horrible - very high pitched and peircing sound, and very unsatisfying to click.

So thanks in advance guys!


----------



## Nimbus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YawMawn*
> 
> Fingertip grip. Fairly large hands. RTS primarily.
> 
> I've heard that the Razer Deathadder is the way to go?


hey, I used to own a deathadder and never even thought of fingertipping it. I always thought it was a palm grip mouse, but fingertipping it might work well. It's definitely a good mouse, if you do go for it please let me know how it goes with a fingertip style grip


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> 1. Hybrid Claw/Palm
> 
> 2. 400 dpi (2 sens @ 400 dpi in CSGO)
> 
> 3. $60 USD
> 
> 4. Left/Right Click, Scroll Wheel w/ Click, and two side buttons is all I use.
> 
> 5. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, and that's the only game I care about tailoring my choice towards.
> 
> 6. Looking for a mouse with a sensor that is as 1:1 movement wise as possible.
> 
> 7. I have used the Death adder series for a long time and I just don't feel comfortable with the shape anymore. I have a SS Sensei but I just can't use it I feel the accell every time I try and make a shot that I do all the time (flicks for example), and right now I'm using the Zowie FK1 and it's almost perfect except the scroll wheel is a POS (randomly stays between one notch and the next and will make me jump out of nowhere when I'm trying to frag in CS, also the mouse clicks are too stiff and delayed for me. So that said my perfect mouse would be something like the FK1 just with that problems fixed (also open to try the G303 if you think it would work well for me.)


I still haven't purchased a new mouse yet and have just been using the FK1 , flaws and all. I think I might go try the G303 at Best-Buy, I looked it up and they have it in stores around me. I might even just buy it and return it to Best-Buy if I don't like it. From what I remember in the past returning things to Best-Buy has been really easy. If I don't like the G303 I think I'm going to purchase an EC1-A. The ZA11 is like $80 on Amazon and that is just way too much to just spend on a mouse not knowing if I will end up buying another mouse soon after.


----------



## hazzy

What's your grip style?
Claw and palm for casual use

What's your sensitivity?
Mid to high. DPI of 1200-1600.

What's your maximum budget?
$80 CAD

Do you want additional buttons?
Two thumbs would be nice. More could be useful, but not needed.

What games do you play?
Dota would be the most important

Do you mind about prediction?
No inherent acceleration preferred.

Other relevant information:
I'll be using a black cloth pad and sometimes table surfaces for travel. This will be my only mouse for a bit. Looking for something not known to be fragile. Does not need to be top line durable, but should last for a good length of time. Good, light software is also handy. Can claw all sizes of mice comfortably. Looking at logitech g502 currently.


----------



## larrydavid

I've used Intellimouse Explorers for 15-16 years, but there's some limitations on it that have me looking for a new mouse. I can't use higher than 200hz on Windows 8.1 or 10, and the click distance is very long. I want something that's as close to the Intellimouse Explorer in terms of feel, but supports 1000hz and has a short click distance.

What's your grip style? Palm/Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Medium
What's your maximum budget? Not a factor.
Do you want additional buttons? Don't care.
What games do you play? FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Don't know
Other relevant information: Doesn't need to be wireless or fancy looking or have macros.


----------



## daunow

Why is a rubber cable better for a mouse? I don't get this friction people talk about.

Currently have a DeathAdder Chroma, didn't want to make a new thread for a simple question.


----------



## Mych

The cable moves quite a bit when using lower sensitivity. It can get caught to the edges of a mouse pad or resist mouse movement because of friction or overall stiffness. Rubber cables tend to be better than braided ones in this respect.


----------



## Zeeevil

What's your grip style?
Claw Grip

What's your sensitivity?
800-1500 DPI

What's your maximum budget?
100 USD

Do you want additional buttons?
2 or more should be good.

What games do you play?
Most of the time Dota 2. Sometimes CSGO.

Do you mind about prediction?
Maybe (not exactly sure about this).

Other relevant information:
• I'm a righty.
• I have big hands so I'm looking for something a bit big that can be comfortable for my hand.
• I prefer a non-glossy finish. Like matte or rubber finish.
• Optical sensor.


----------



## Kitarist

I have a claw grip and i'm looking for a new mouse right now i still have MX518 but to be honest my perfomance with it was never so good, i had even better perfomance with classic cheap mice. Its a good mouse but really weird to use with claw grip i did get used to it but imho its not made for claw gripers so i dont want to make the same decision as i did with mx518. I'm looking at Logitech G5202 and i'm curious if its good for the claw grip style?

So if anyone has any suggestions just shout them out


----------



## kackbratze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kitarist*
> 
> I have a claw grip and i'm looking for a new mouse right now i still have MX518 but to be honest my perfomance with it was never so good, i had even better perfomance with classic cheap mice. Its a good mouse but really weird to use with claw grip i did get used to it but imho its not made for claw gripers so i dont want to make the same decision as i did with mx518. I'm looking at Logitech G5202 and i'm curious if its good for the claw grip style?
> 
> So if anyone has any suggestions just shout them out


the mx518 is not a good mouse at all.
what do you want to play with your mouse? FPS? If so I would recommend the g30.
g502 (I assume you mean g502 because there is no g5202) is not a mouse for claw grip.


----------



## Tomaszal

What's your grip style?
Palm grip
What's your sensitivity?
Medium
What's your maximum budget?
About $50
Do you want additional buttons?
I want at least 2 additional buttons and horizontal scroll somewhere
What games do you play?
I rarely play games, when I do they're usually
Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure
Other relevant information:
Wireless is a must for me and I want it to have a long battery life (like some Logitech mice, up to 2-3 years battery life). Also I want it to sit comfortable in my hand and be good quality. I hate glossy plastic, so it'd be better without it. I'm coming from old Logitech M215 (it has served me good, but it's starting to wear out) so I think any new mice will be a good upgrade for me.
I'm currently looking at Logitech M560. It fits me perfectly, but I have read some reviews on Amazon that say it feels cheap and isn't as comfortable as advertised.

Should I go with Logitech M560 or is there a better choice?


----------



## Chuck89

Hey guys,

I have been using an Avior 7000 for over a year now and I started to dislike the mushy feeling of the right mouse button. Sometimes the click isn't as crisp as the left mouse button.
On top of that the consistency of the mouse wheel got worse. At certain points of the wheel rotation it is harder to press the scroll wheel. Besides, since I recently started playing Chivalry, I just noticed that the wheel could be more reliable. It's not that the wheel doesn't register, but it just feels inconsistent from time to time. At times scrolling is hard, then it is just too flimsy.

So, I am wondering if there may be a better alternative choice for me. I would prefer a high quality mouse (sensor, build quality), which shouldn't be smaller than the Avior, but it may be larger. First, I was looking at the Zowie ZA11, however the mouse wheel doesn't seem to be that great...

My "profile" in short:

palm/claw hybrid grip, size of my hand 20cm, high sensitivity user (2000dpi).


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I have been using an Avior 7000 for over a year now and I started to dislike the mushy feeling of the right mouse button. Sometimes the click isn't as crisp as the left mouse button.
> On top of that the consistency of the mouse wheel got worse. At certain points of the wheel rotation it is harder to press the scroll wheel. Besides, since I recently started playing Chivalry, I just noticed that the wheel could be more reliable. It's not that the wheel doesn't register, but it just feels inconsistent from time to time. At times scrolling is hard, then it is just too flimsy.
> 
> So, I am wondering if there may be a better alternative choice for me. I would prefer a high quality mouse (sensor, build quality), which shouldn't be smaller than the Avior, but it may be larger. First, I was looking at the Zowie ZA11, however the mouse wheel doesn't seem to be that great...
> 
> My "profile" in short:
> 
> palm/claw hybrid grip, size of my hand 20cm, high sensitivity user (2000dpi).


The ZA11 is a good overall alternative to the Avior, but Zowie's scroll wheels aren't that great in general. It's still a somewhat viable option (clicks would be more "crisp" due to the huanos). If you're looking for a good scroll wheel, Roccat has the best on the market imo. You have larger hands and high sens so perhaps the XTD (preferably the Optical) would work for you, but their other mice (Kone Pure series, Savu, Lua, etc.) all have good wheels as well.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> You have larger hands and high sens so perhaps the XTD (preferably the Optical) would work for you, but their other mice (Kone Pure series, Savu, Lua, etc.) all have good wheels as well.


Shame ONLY Roccat can make decent scroll wheels, every other company seems to think a scroll wheel is just not important at all to anyone out there







.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Shame ONLY Roccat can make decent scroll wheels, every other company seems to think a scroll wheel is just not important at all to anyone out there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Meanwhile at Steelseries and Zowie...


----------



## the1onewolf

alps ftw


----------



## DaSandman

Hi everyone. New to the forums here, because i'm not sure what mouse i should get.

I'm just a caual gamer, so i'm not looking for anything to expensive. I'm having a hard time choosing between 2 mice i found on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/VicTsing%C2%AE-Gaming-Programmable-Buttons-Colorful/dp/B00QTETWV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1439234900&sr=1-1&keywords=VicTsing%C2%AE+2500+DPI+Gaming+Mouse+%28Can+Adjust+Up+To+6000+DPI%29%2C+9+Programmable+Buttons+Colorful+USB+Wired+Gaming+Mouse

and

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O1U1FZ4?&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A3E5K6GEFSI075

I know most of you are pretty serious about this stuff, so sorry if asking this offends anyone









[*] What's your grip style?
finger tip
[*] What's your sensitivity?
medium, i guess...
[*] What's your maximum budget?
N/A
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
Sure, i've never played with a mouse with customizable buttons, but i'd like to try it.
[*] What games do you play?
all kinds. last game on PC was diablo 3, mainly focusing on bloodborne on ps4 now
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
i honestly don't know if i've ever played with a mouse that has it... could be i have, could be i haven't. Doesn't matter
[*] Other relevant information:
i love the LEDS on both mice, it looks awesome









Like i said, not looking for anything special, i'd just like to hear some opinions on both these models. I am planning on building my own PC in the future, though, so i'm probably sticking around









i like the iKross, because it looks bigger and more ergonomic. i like the VicTsing because it has more colors and buttons and i like the model more than the iKross.

Thanks!


----------



## Skpe

I've got an unusual request this time.

What's the best mouse with the fastest button/response time? It might not necessarily be the quickest 'button latency' test score, I mean some buttons are clunky and harder to press, but that doesn't go against it's latency time in testing. It'd be a mixture of those best latency mice with what people feel are very fast/snappy buttons

I hope I make sense to you!

Thanks anyone.


----------



## granitov

*Skpe,* the best option for you would be picking a mouse with lowest debounce time (or of your preference) and using the switches you find the most comfortable via soldering.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skpe*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I've got an unusual request this time.
> 
> What's the best mouse with the fastest button/response time? It might not necessarily be the quickest 'button latency' test score, I mean some buttons are clunky and harder to press, but that doesn't go against it's latency time in testing. It'd be a mixture of those best latency mice with what people feel are very fast/snappy buttons
> 
> I hope I make sense to you!
> 
> Thanks anyone.


Logitech G302/G303


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skpe*
> 
> I've got an unusual request this time.
> 
> What's the best mouse with the fastest button/response time? It might not necessarily be the quickest 'button latency' test score, I mean some buttons are clunky and harder to press, but that doesn't go against it's latency time in testing. It'd be a mixture of those best latency mice with what people feel are very fast/snappy buttons


I think I know what you mean. The following modern and available mice pass my personal requirements without modifications: G303, G302, G402, Deathadder 2013 (probably other versions too), CM Storm Alcor. Haven't tried everything, of course, and some others might have had bad shape/weight that ruined clicks too for me.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Meanwhile at Steelseries and Zowie...


Well at least Zowie still has that nice button feel compared to the SS. Huanos simply rule now, OKAY







.


----------



## Skpe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> *Skpe,* the best option for you would be picking a mouse with lowest debounce time (or of your preference) and using the switches you find the most comfortable via soldering.


That might be something I'll look at.

Right now I have a 'broken' Sensei Raw Frost - it's fast and the part that's broken is awesome and awful- the buttons are semi broken in that they are already "75% activated, ie they take a fraction of the force required to click (rendering it incredibly easy to accidentally click, almost useless to anyone not used to it). I'm actually tempted to see if I can recreate this kind of feel on another mouse (got a couple of DA2k13's to spare), where by if I shave the buttons down or remove some of the friction, thus lowering the force required to click.

As for an unmodified version, definitely looking at G303. They post good latency scores, have a good sensor and if it's anything like the old G5 buttons (last time I used Logitech), I'll be quite happy. I still want it to be fast as ******* possible though, maybe I'll buy 2 and try to mod these buttons.

I don't really have a good reference for what switch would be most comfortable though.

Speed is life!


----------



## granitov

*Skpe,* fast and snappy would be Huano blue shell white point, Cherry DG2 T85 (0.74N and 0.60N variants), your default Omrons D2FC-F-7N (you will have to buy a lot of them as their properties vary a lot). I personally prefer Cherrys for their very short travel and low sound, but some prefer the higher rebound force and louder click of Huanos.

Some recommend Omron D2F-F-3-7, D2F-01-F - they are crisp but I find them dull, like if they are some light variant of TTC switches.

Probably Huano Pink, White and Yellow point could suit you too (they are on the lighter side), although I haven't tried them.

In the end everything - the sound and feel - depends on the shell of a mouse. You would need lighter switches for a thick, stiff shell and vice versa.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> Cherry DG2 T85 (0.74N and 0.60N variants).


Dear Sir,

Whereabouts can you buy some *Cherry DG2 T85 - 0.60N* variant on the web?

Happy if it's Ebay or some other web store that provides international purchases and shipping.


----------



## granitov

*Elrick,* taobao has all the variety of them, but you'll probably have to order them through a reseller. I believe you could find some on Ebay, too.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> *Elrick,* taobao has all the variety of them, but you'll probably have to order them through a reseller. I believe you could find some on Ebay, too.


Thank you for the Chinese Taobao link BUT I prefer buying from someone who actually can read and type in English, hence Ebay is my ONLY option.

So I guess I shall be sleeping on Ebay, waiting for the elusive 0.60N Cherry DGN Switches.


----------



## granitov

*Elrick,* I'd convince you that the language and description aren't the things you're shopping for, but I think you know what suits you better. You're welcome.


----------



## ajx

Quote:


> *What's your grip style?*
> Between palm grip and claw but most likely palm grip
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Low/mid, it depends of game, on competitive game, i used to have very low sensitivty, on casual/fun games, mid
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> I dont have specific budget but lower price goes to my preference ofc, around 50/70 usd/eur
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes it does really matter to me, how many? dont look me as mmo players, i don't need that much but used to programm some useful functions (besides primary click and scroll-wheel, 4 side buttons would be enough for my taste)
> *What games do you play?*
> fps, mainly cooperative fps such as left for dead or fast fps, i dont play CS or COD at all
> Others type of game: tps/adventure/survival horor such as Tomb Raider, Resident Evil
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Dunno what is it?
> *Other relevant information:*
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> I don't mind about ambidextrous/ right handed, ambidextrous mice do not even bother me, i am even able to use both side button on ambidextrous mouse (Avior 7000) without any problem at att
> I have Razer Destructor 2 which is an hard mat pad and all my ex mice didnt have any issue on it, just one cheap chinese ebay mouse failed working on it
> I very like wireless gaming mice (i had G700) but i know its expensive and rather have awful battery life
> Well on more thing, i very like Logitech multi-directional and free spin scrollwheel
> No glossy finish please, mat and smooth texture/surface
> I had these following mice
> - intellimouse 3.0, found on my local supermarket without doing it on purpose LOL, i didn't know it was a legendary mouse
> - Razer Copperheard, stop working after couple months, most likely usb plug issue
> - G7, i have been using it for years without any problem
> - G700, i very like it but its heavy and on the end, sensor having random malfunction at certain specific moment (dunno why)
> - Avior 7000 (sensor is really good, i very liked it overall but one thing i highly disliked it: those ******* cheap side buttons that feel like 2$ mouse)


----------



## sdfj7243

I was going to buy this mouse http://www.gamdias.com/en/p/erebos_gms7510/ with this pad http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g440-hard-gaming-mouse-pad, but I read somewhere that optical sensors are maybe better as laser, because of coherent accelerating disposition (not incrementing or decrementing) for FPS games for example.
I'm lucky that same mouse is in optical version http://www.gamdias.com/en/p/erebos_gms7500/

Should I buy optical with posted pad ?

Yes/No - why ?

Thank you


----------



## xIC3x

I'm looking for a new lightweight mouse mainly for FPS and Desktop use. My IE3.0 died and since I have transformed over to Win10 I can't have 500hz anyways. so time to move on...









What's your grip style?
A mixture of palm and claw

What's your sensitivity?
400-800, So CS:GO 1.7 and 400dpi MarkC Mousefix

What's your maximum budget?
"Sky's the limit..." no but seriously: $78

Do you want additional buttons?
Only side buttons mainly for web browsing usage.

What games do you play?
Mainly FPS, CS:GO over 1k hours Supreme rank.









Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, but if the mouse has a good sensor than no.

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Low LOD, close to ambidextrous shape, light weight.

So far I've been looking at Razer Deathadder, but not sure if in the long run those end bits will not be annoying. Which DA's have the S3988?


----------



## PeakCS

What's your grip style?
Palm/claw hybrid
What's your sensitivity?
400dpi 2.25 in CS:GO
What's your maximum budget?
Negotiable.
Do you want additional buttons?
Basic ones are enough
What games do you play?
CS:GO mostly, other games occasionally.
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction.
Other relevant information:
Low LOD is a good things for me, G502 is way too heavy to be comfortable for me, no wireless mice and I like the Zowie cord. Hand is about 18cm in length, fingers quite short.

I'm currently using the Zowie FK2 and am quite happy with it in every other sense than that I'm not sure if the shape is a good fit for my hand. Before the FK2 I was using the G502 but thought it was too big for my hands (currently think it's just too heavy) so I went for the FK2, which was both lighter and smaller. After a couple of months with the FK2 I've been switching between claw and palm gripping but don't consider the claw gripping to be too pleasant and it eventually hurts my hand a bit. I have also been trying to palm the mouse, but can't seem to find a good grip. So now I'm stuck with two mice that are supposed to be claw gripped at least on low sensitivities and am pondering if I should try the Zowie EC2-A? Would you suggest that or something else for me considering that I would like to have a palm gripable mouse that is not too heavy to lift?


----------



## WangYum

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to these forums but I hope to help others with the little knowledge I know about mice. So hello everybody! My naga broke a couple months ago and I finally got a refund today. I quit WoW so I no longer need an MMO mouse, here is the templ8 m8.

What's your grip style? Palm or Claw palm hybrid
What's your sensitivity? 400dpi
What's your maximum budget? $70
Do you want additional buttons? Two buttons would be nice, pretty standard really.
What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4, Miscellaneous FPS games and of course ArmA3 / DayZ a hell of a lot
Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction. I like my mouse movements to be as accurate as possible.
Other relevant information: I'm quite intrigued by Zowie mice especially the FK1 and the ZA series. Wondering if the ZA series is any good? Can it be played professionally. What are the issues with the FK series?
Input anything else you want. Simple design, can't stand flashy futuristic designs. Dont mind most Razer or Roccat mice but the SS or Zowie simplicity is appealing to me.

I don't want to rush, but the rather terrible temp mouse I was using while waiting for a refund just broke. I'm now literally left with a $1 mouse that is about 10cm long so I would like to get buying soon









- Wng


----------



## PeakCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WangYum*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to these forums but I hope to help others with the little knowledge I know about mice. So hello everybody! My naga broke a couple months ago and I finally got a refund today. I quit WoW so I no longer need an MMO mouse, here is the templ8 m8.
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm or Claw palm hybrid
> What's your sensitivity? 400dpi
> What's your maximum budget? $70
> Do you want additional buttons? Two buttons would be nice, pretty standard really.
> What games do you play? CS:GO, BF4, Miscellaneous FPS games and of course ArmA3 / DayZ a hell of a lot
> Do you mind about prediction? I hate prediction. I like my mouse movements to be as accurate as possible.
> Other relevant information: I'm quite intrigued by Zowie mice especially the FK1 and the ZA series. Wondering if the ZA series is any good? Can it be played professionally. What are the issues with the FK series?
> Input anything else you want. Simple design, can't stand flashy futuristic designs. Dont mind most Razer or Roccat mice but the SS or Zowie simplicity is appealing to me.
> 
> I don't want to rush, but the rather terrible temp mouse I was using while waiting for a refund just broke. I'm now literally left with a $1 mouse that is about 10cm long so I would like to get buying soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Wng


There are no major issues with the FK series. If I had to say something I'd go with the scroll as it is not the best I've used. Check this review by Ino. on FK1 (http://www.overclock.net/t/1500615/zowie-fk1-competitive-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino). ZA and FK are otherwise the same but the ZA has a higher back, so it's mostly preference and what fits your hand better. Haven't used the ZA but some people in the thread are saying they never got used to the shape. Might be just a minority though.

Have you looked at the EC1/2-A? FK and ZA are both claw grip mice (unless you have small hands) whereas the EC is a palm grip mouse and you mentioned that you are mostly a palm gripper.


----------



## WangYum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeakCS*
> 
> Have you looked at the EC1/2-A? FK and ZA are both claw grip mice (unless you have small hands) whereas the EC is a palm grip mouse and you mentioned that you are mostly a palm gripper.


Thanks a lot for the help. I have not actually considered the EC1 but I have heard that the mouse has many issues and it's specifications are different to the fk and za series. Any info on that?


----------



## PeakCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WangYum*
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help. I have not actually considered the EC1 but I have heard that the mouse has many issues and it's specifications are different to the fk and za series. Any info on that?


The sensor and the switches should be the same as they are in FK and ZA so on that front there should not be problems. I have heard about double click problems but I am not an expert on the mouse so check the thread (http://www.overclock.net/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a) even though it's quite long. I know that the older EC models had problems with coating and side buttons etc. but the newest version should be better.


----------



## WangYum

Thanks for the feedback. Is the EC1 used professionally like the fk1 and fk2? I haven't heard of this particular Zowie model nearly as much as the fk series. Is it still used by CS:GO professionals and such? Also, what other palm-grip mice could I consider? I was contemplating over purchasing a deathadder but the razer build quality is nowhere near as sturdy or high quality as many zowie and SS mice. Any ideas?


----------



## PeakCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WangYum*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Is the EC1 used professionally like the fk1 and fk2? I haven't heard of this particular Zowie model nearly as much as the fk series. Is it still used by CS:GO professionals and such? Also, what other palm-grip mice could I consider? I was contemplating over purchasing a deathadder but the razer build quality is nowhere near as sturdy or high quality as many zowie and SS mice. Any ideas?


EC and all of its versions are actually used more than FK by the CS:GO Pros (at least according to the following link there are 31 EC users and 23 FK users: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit#gid=1762004852). Regarding the other mice you mentioned, Rival and Deathadder are widely used as well (and are both palm mice if I'm not mistaken) but there is always the issue with Razer quality and the problems with the software that comes with both mice. If you want to take a look at the Rival check this review by takasta http://www.overclock.net/t/1453053/steelseries-rival-review-by-takasta.

I'm not familiar with the software that comes with either mouse, but it's still something I'd consider to be in Zowie's favor.

In your shoes I'd probably go with the EC, but I'm fairly certain you'll be happy with any of them. Remember to also make sure that you pick the right size EC if you choose to do so. EC1-A from what I've heard is quite large so if your hands are not big you might want to take a look at EC2-A. Preference once again, but just wanted to give a heads up.

Edit. And if you get interested in the Rival, notice that there is a new version of it coming out very soon http://www.overclock.net/t/1566139/the-new-mouse-from-steelseries-rival-100


----------



## Fidex

*What's your grip style?* Palm grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 400Dpi
*What's your maximum budget?* 60€ +-
*Do you want additional buttons?* Only 2 aditional buttons in the left it's necessary
*What games do you play?* Only CSGO
*Do you mind about prediction?* NO
*Other relevant information:*

I have the Zowie Fk1 , but i think it's a little bit small than my hand , and sometimes , and , because of this ,when I play a long time , it isn't confortable and just getting tired


----------



## marcovh

Ive tested all, if not alot!

only (optical) way to go would be:

g400s
razer DA
Rival
Zowie

and in this order! Maybe look for another zowie that fits your needs, else get a g400s from ebay. im sold!


----------



## xIC3x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marcovh*
> 
> Ive tested all, if not alot!
> 
> only (optical) way to go would be:
> 
> g400s
> razer DA
> Rival
> Zowie
> 
> and in this order! Maybe look for another zowie that fits your needs, else get a g400s from ebay. im sold!


G400s still in sale? Don't like the shape though, which DA are you talking about specifically? S3988?

Rival and Zowie have 3310 which has smoothing...

IMO

IE3.0
G400 or Razer DA


----------



## abso

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a replacement for my g100s (weight removed) which I'm using now for almost 2 years. Sadly l got some issues with left mouseclick since few days and i decided to replace it. My fav mouse is the wmo (cant use it cuz win 8/10 doesnt support 500hz fix) and my g100s. I didnt follow the development since i bought my g100s so I was hoping for some advice which mice I should consider. I prefer light weight mice which I can claw/semi palm grip. Something similar to g100s/wmo with better sensor + build quality and mb 1-2 side buttons would be great. If there is no such thing I will just get another g100s i guess. Mouse is used for FPS Arena Shooters.


----------



## pnoozi

Hi guys. Grateful for any and all replies.


What's your grip style? *palm*
What's your sensitivity? *rather low (CSGO player...), 800dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *Don't worry about it!*
Do you want additional buttons? *Need side buttons for voice.*
What games do you play? *CSGO mainly, first-person shooters in general.*
Do you mind about prediction? *If it affects my aim in CSGO...*
Other relevant information: *Need it to be wired, light, and small.* Prefer it to have driver software, glossy finish, ambidextrous, but these are bonuses.
My G400s is a bit larger and heavier than I prefer (hard for me to palm). I also have a Kinzu v2, which I _really_ like in terms of shape and size, but the lack of side buttons is a real problem. I'm using a Zowie FK2 right now, which is pretty nice, but it forces a fingertip grip due to the way the front edge of the mouse curves upward. I'm considering the Sensei or Sensei Raw, but I'm very concerned about the laser sensor. I have a cloth QcK+ mouse pad, and the last laser mouse I tried on it (G700) was horrible on it.


----------



## pnoozi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> 1. Hybrid Claw/Palm
> 
> 2. 400 dpi (2 sens @ 400 dpi in CSGO)
> 
> 3. $60 USD
> 
> 4. Left/Right Click, Scroll Wheel w/ Click, and two side buttons is all I use.
> 
> 5. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, and that's the only game I care about tailoring my choice towards.
> 
> 6. Looking for a mouse with a sensor that is as 1:1 movement wise as possible.
> 
> 7. I have used the Death adder series for a long time and I just don't feel comfortable with the shape anymore. I have a SS Sensei but I just can't use it I feel the accell every time I try and make a shot that I do all the time (flicks for example), and right now I'm using the Zowie FK1 and it's almost perfect except the scroll wheel is a POS (randomly stays between one notch and the next and will make me jump out of nowhere when I'm trying to frag in CS, also the mouse clicks are too stiff and delayed for me. So that said my perfect mouse would be something like the FK1 just with that problems fixed (also open to try the G303 if you think it would work well for me.)


How the hell are you palming an FK1? I have the FK2 and maybe my hands are just too big... but I can only slide my hand so far forward before my fingertips encounter the raised front edge of the mouse.


----------



## fenr1rr

Hi everyone,

I'm a new guy here, I hope you'll not be too rude with me







.

What's your grip style? *Clawgrips/Fingertips*
What's your sensitivity? Hard to answer, low on CS / medium-high on Quake
What's your maximum budget? Don't need a golden mouse but willing to pay as much as needed
Do you want additional buttons? If possible, yes. Additional in my mind doesn't mean this http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/additional/large/eb59_razer_naga_new_numbers.jpg
What games do you play? Essentially Slow-paced and fast-paced FPS + in a non competitive way at the moment RTS/MOBA
Do you mind about prediction? *no prediction*
Other relevant information:
*Very good optical sensor, great precision, light weight*, as simple as possible, Driverless, braided cord, my current mouse is 6 years old (no I don't talk about http://dreamatico.com/data_images/mouse/mouse-1.jpg) so I dare about some quality.
Suggestions : an enhanced version of the IMO 1.1/3.0 ?
Thanks in advance


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fenr1rr*
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm a new guy here, I hope you'll not be too rude with me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> What's your grip style? *Clawgrips/Fingertips*
> What's your sensitivity? Hard to answer, low on CS / medium-high on Quake
> What's your maximum budget? Don't need a golden mouse but willing to pay as much as needed
> Do you want additional buttons? If possible, yes. Additional in my mind doesn't mean this http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/additional/large/eb59_razer_naga_new_numbers.jpg
> What games do you play? Essentially Slow-paced and fast-paced FPS + in a non competitive way at the moment RTS/MOBA
> Do you mind about prediction? *no prediction*
> Other relevant information:
> *Very good optical sensor, great precision, light weight*, as simple as possible, Driverless, braided cord, my current mouse is 6 years old (no I don't talk about http://dreamatico.com/data_images/mouse/mouse-1.jpg) so I dare about some quality.
> Suggestions : an enhanced version of the IMO 1.1/3.0 ?
> Thanks in advance


How do you rocket jump? Mwheel + m2? Certain mice wont allow both mbuttons to register at the same time which ruins the mouse for many quake players. I love my FK1 for CS (I fingertip / Claw hybrid @ 400dpi 1.5 sens) however it's not perfect. I really want to try the G100s but I've heard that my sens wont work with that sensor. I'm interested to see what other suggestions you get.


----------



## fenr1rr

Mwheel + m2 exactly.

I'm very interested in the Zowie FK2 but my choice is not made at the moment.


----------



## fenr1rr

My thoughts at the moment :

_ Ambidextrous driverless => Zowie FK2
_ Ambidextrous with driver => Mionix Avior 7000

_ Ergonomic driverless => Zowie EC2-A & FinalMouse
_ Ergonomic with driver => Mionix Naos 7000 & Roccat Pure Military

As far as I've read, Mionix and Zowie are more or less equal, Mionix seems to have better switches (so better click delay).

Concerning the Roccat, it's heavier + the design is not appealing for me.
Concerning the FinalMouse, it seems to be not as great as announced.

Don't hesitate to correct me and/or suggest me other solutions and/or share more in-depth reviews.

I apologize if my english typing is not as good as intended. I'm not a native speaker







.


----------



## ianzeiraa

*What's your grip style?* Claw grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 900 dpi - 1.3 in CS GO
*What's your maximum budget?* 70$
*Do you want additional buttons?* only 2 thumb buttons
*What games do you play?* FPS's
*Do you mind about prediction?* no prediction
*Other relevant information:* optical sensor, braided cable, lightweight, low LOD, small and ambidextrous shape


----------



## MeHigh

@ianzeirra Logitech G303 or EVGA Torq X5, I really liked those mice, and my preferences are very similar to yours.


----------



## ianzeiraa

i would go with the logitech g303, this mouse looks very good and I'm just waiting for my to reach.


----------



## EnigmaBlackhawk

What's your grip style?
Grip to me doesn't really matter to me as long as I can pick the mouse up without issue (aka no slippery material) and the shape isn't an hourglass figure. Those give me hand cramps.

What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI Medium sensitivity. Going to switch to 400 soon.

What's your maximum budget?
Price won't matter if the features are worth it.

Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons are a must. Avoid buttons near the left and right click because they get in the way. Also I prefer just 1 set on the right, not 2, like common ambi mice have.

What games do you play?
Lots of FPS (CSGO and 1.6 mainly)

Do you mind about prediction?
Any flaw with the sensor is an instant nope. Raw 1to1 only.

Other relevant information:
Some mice I've used are the Deathadder Chroma, Zowie EC2-A, Roccat Kone, and the Steelseries Rival

The Deathadder was great in terms of sensor performance, but the slippery grips (forcing me to fingertip it) and fear of durability issues (the infamous double click) make me reluctant to use it.
I only picked Zowie because of the weight, shape, and the oversized teflon feet. At the same time though, the side button and scroll wheel feel cheap and the sensor implementation bothers me. Currently my main mouse.
Roccat Kone had pretty much the perfect shape and sensor implementation, but the scroll wheel had few notches (making bhopping difficult) and the drivers bricked mine.
The Rival was the worst. The rubber sides would melt/ rip off and become slippery and the buttons were placed to far back. Weighed too much as well.

Currently looking at the Kone Pure Military (for the durability), the Logitech G303/G402 (for the sensor), or the Finalmouse 2015 ( for the implementation and weight). I can also tolerate buying the Deathadder or EC2-A again if nothing exceeds them in terms of overall performance. Anything suggestions? Should I stick with what I got or try something new, different, and possibly better?

Preferences: Near MLT04 sensor, large teflon feet, low click latency, Low LOD, low weight, braided wired, uniform finish (preferably matte), low actuation force and travel, driverless is a bonus, smooth scroll wheel (like a deathadder or FM), high durability/build quality, close and flat /smooth side buttons (as opposed to pointy on the Logitech G series or FM), customizable LED (preferably purple).


----------



## Scrimstar

How does one measure their hand? Zowie offers mice in many different sizes and I am trying to see which one fits me or if I should check other mice out


----------



## Oneyed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnigmaBlackhawk*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Grip to me doesn't really matter to me as long as I can pick the mouse up without issue (aka no slippery material) and the shape isn't an hourglass figure. Those give me hand cramps.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800 DPI Medium sensitivity. Going to switch to 400 soon.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> Price won't matter if the features are worth it.
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons are a must. Avoid buttons near the left and right click because they get in the way. Also I prefer just 1 set on the right, not 2, like common ambi mice have.
> 
> What games do you play?
> Lots of FPS (CSGO and 1.6 mainly)
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Any flaw with the sensor is an instant nope. Raw 1to1 only.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Some mice I've used are the Deathadder Chroma, Zowie EC2-A, Roccat Kone, and the Steelseries Rival
> 
> The Deathadder was great in terms of sensor performance, but the slippery grips (forcing me to fingertip it) and fear of durability issues (the infamous double click) make me reluctant to use it.
> I only picked Zowie because of the weight, shape, and the oversized teflon feet. At the same time though, the side button and scroll wheel feel cheap and the sensor implementation bothers me. Currently my main mouse.
> Roccat Kone had pretty much the perfect shape and sensor implementation, but the scroll wheel had few notches (making bhopping difficult) and the drivers bricked mine.
> The Rival was the worst. The rubber sides would melt/ rip off and become slippery and the buttons were placed to far back. Weighed too much as well.
> 
> Currently looking at the Kone Pure Military (for the durability), the Logitech G303/G402 (for the sensor), or the Finalmouse 2015 ( for the implementation and weight). I can also tolerate buying the Deathadder or EC2-A again if nothing exceeds them in terms of overall performance. Anything suggestions? Should I stick with what I got or try something new, different, and possibly better?
> 
> Preferences: Near MLT04 sensor, large teflon feet, low click latency, Low LOD, low weight, braided wired, uniform finish (preferably matte), low actuation force and travel, driverless is a bonus, smooth scroll wheel (like a deathadder or FM), high durability/build quality, close and flat /smooth side buttons (as opposed to pointy on the Logitech G series or FM), customizable LED (preferably purple).


Maybe you should try new mionix castor , mate finish , not hourglass , low weight , one time software use after that you can uninstall software , customizable rgb leds , nice sensor , one side buttons (not ambi) maybe you like wheel maybe not , smooth side buttons...


----------



## Mejk

Mionix Castor:
If you got a mousepad with a print on it, you'll need to get a full black one aswell.
Cause when I put mine on a yellow letter, the cursor won't move until its on something black.


----------



## EnigmaBlackhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oneyed*
> 
> Maybe you should try new mionix castor , mate finish , not hourglass , low weight , one time software use after that you can uninstall software , customizable rgb leds , nice sensor , one side buttons (not ambi) maybe you like wheel maybe not , smooth side buttons...


After looking at Mionix, which I have noted as a very underrated company, the exterior features look perfect. However, no extensive reviews on the sensor performance are available, and the sensor implementation is pretty important to me. Does anyone know any other mice with extensive testing on the sensor (like Finalmouse/Deathadder) that fit my criteria? I'm definitely adding the castor to my list though.


----------



## Nerdface Killah

I have a G700s that I love but the battery life when wired sucks big time. I bought the 502 and the 602 and they are both too big for my hands. My hand is 18cm from middle finger to wrist. I have to reach too far forward to hit the two upper side buttons that are to the left of the left click button. The g700s fits in my hand perfectly and I believe I use a claw grip. Any recommendations?

I would require the same amount of buttons on the g700s as I use each and every one of the buttons for various things such as refresh, home, end, next article in RSS reader, prev article in RSS reader, etc.


----------



## etre

Hi.

I just bought a cheap A4tech mouse, Bloody A9, as a temporary replacement for my Mionix Avior 7000 which was in service.
It turns out the Avior is dead for good (left button problem) and no replacement is possible. Funny, before I had a SS XAI which developed a double click problem also on the left button.

At this point I wonder if I should stick with the Bloody A9 as I only play WoT at the moment. It has an Avago 3050 sensor, 4000CPI but is interpolated. This sensor is only able to go up to 2000.

http://www.bloody.com/en/Products.php?pid=29&id=34

Here are some tests:


What do you guys think, worth keeping or is too bad ?

Also, I'm pondering if I should by this:
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=902-X2-1052-KR


----------



## Smoop

Hi, I'm looking to buy a new mouse and here's what I'm looking for









What's your grip style? Claw/fingertip

What's your sensitivity? 800dpi

What's your maximum budget? 60 euros

Do you want additional buttons? Nope

What games do you play? Starcraft II Hots, sometimes MOBA

Do you mind about prediction? I don't want it

Other relevant information: I tried a corsair sabre. The sensor and the clicks were beautiful but the shape was horrible for me. The weight was ok but I would like a lighter mice.

I'm just looking for a light amidextrous mice with a good optical sensor. I don't want any unusual shape. I'm undecided between ROG Sica and Torq X5 but if you have any other good mice it would be super nice. If someone tried the X5 I would like to know if the clicks are too stiff (compared to a Corsair Sabre or a Zowie Mico).

Thank you very much.


----------



## 7Teku

Anyone have any thoughts on large ambi mice? I've tried FK1, Kinzu V3, Abyssus 2014, Krait 4G, G100s, Aurora.... So far I've hated all of the shapes except for G100s/Aurora (granted none of which are particularly large). With the other mice, it seems that the sides all have the same kind of a (top to bottom of mouse) \_/ kind of shape. That shape and the general size of those mice just make them unusable for me. And while the G100s/Aurora have MUCH better shapes, they're both a little small for my palm/claw grip.

Zowie ZA mice probably aren't an option since one of the major complaints that I had with the FK1 were the buttons on the right side of the mouse.

I'm currently using a Rival, which is almost the perfect shape/size for me, I just wish it was shorter from the front of the mouse by a few mm because I'm click really far back on the shell (that and it's far too heavy). TBH the G100s/Aurora would be close be perfect for me if they were more like a shorter Rival size.

I do have a WMO (from takasta) coming in the mail, so maybe that's going to be the mouse to alleviate my problems. If not then I'll probably have to stick with the Rival even though it has a less than ideal sensor feel or order a 3.0.


----------



## n2k3

Hey guys, lurker here. I just registered to find some help finalizing a mouse upgrade from the MX518, something other than Logitech.

Why no Logitech:
I tried the G400s and their Logitech Gaming Software which I find pretty limited. This is compared to their previous mouse driver SetPoint, the G400s mouse itself was pretty good, but I didn't like the software and went back to using the MX518 + SetPoint + UberOptions. For more specific information regarding my issues with LGS refer to my logitech forum post.

Current I play on a Sony GDM-FW900 CRT 1920x1200 at 96hz using the Logitec MX518 @ 800 CPI with a 125Hz polling rate. I've been using this for about 8 years now and I'm looking for something similar when I upgrade. I will be playing on the Asus PG279Q which is a 27" IPS screen with a 2560x1440 resolution at 165hz with GSYNC. I'll probably be above 100 fps most of the time as I will be running two MSI GTX 980 TI Lightning's in SLI. I play mostly Dota 2, but I also like to play twitch/arena shooters like UT.

After my mouse research I'm looking for a mouse with that meet the following mouse requirements:

Wired (duh)
LED optical mouse sensor
Adjustable CPI between 800-3200 at least
No angle snapping (or at least an option to disable it)
No positive/negative acceleration (or at least an option to disable it)
Minimal jitter
At least 4 extra buttons, two near the thumb and two near the scroll wheel
USB polling rate @ 1000 hz (pretty much every gaming mouse can do this today)
I claw my mouse during gaming and have big hands.
My budget is not higher than €100
Mouse pad requirements:

A large black soft cloth mouse pad (similar to Corepad Eyepad XL)
My mouse of choice would be: *Asus Strix Claw*
My mousepad of choice would be: *SteelSeries QcK+*

These others have caught my eye: Roccat Kone Pure Military, Razer Deathadder Chroma, Epicgear Cyclops X, Steelseries Rival

My question to you is do you have a better mouse or mousepad recommendation. Also if you can share some pros or cons of the driver/software, please do!

Thanks!


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on large ambi mice? I've tried FK1, Kinzu V3, Abyssus 2014, Krait 4G, G100s, Aurora.... So far I've hated all of the shapes except for G100s/Aurora (granted none of which are particularly large). With the other mice, it seems that the sides all have the same kind of a (top to bottom of mouse) \_/ kind of shape. That shape and the general size of those mice just make them unusable for me. And while the G100s/Aurora have MUCH better shapes, they're both a little small for my palm/claw grip.
> 
> Zowie ZA mice probably aren't an option since one of the major complaints that I had with the FK1 were the buttons on the right side of the mouse.
> 
> I'm currently using a Rival, which is almost the perfect shape/size for me, I just wish it was shorter from the front of the mouse by a few mm because I'm click really far back on the shell (that and it's far too heavy). TBH the G100s/Aurora would be close be perfect for me if they were more like a shorter Rival size.
> 
> I do have a WMO (from takasta) coming in the mail, so maybe that's going to be the mouse to alleviate my problems. If not then I'll probably have to stick with the Rival even though it has a less than ideal sensor feel or order a 3.0.


Both the WMO and 3.0 will be unusable at your sens Teku. I use 70cm/360 and both are a no go.

Did you have the Final mouse? if so what were your thoughts?


----------



## EnigmaBlackhawk

Are there any other suggestions for me because I'll have to choose between 10 mice:
Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury
Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex
Roccat Kone Pure Military
Razer Deathadder (Chroma/2013)
Zowie EC2-A
Zowie FK1
Asus ROG Gladius (has Deathadder sensor)
Finalmouse 2015 SE/Ambidextrous
Mionix Castor

Any winners?
Keep in mind my previous specifications (pg 470)


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Both the WMO and 3.0 will be unusable at your sens Teku. I use 70cm/360 and both are a no go.
> 
> Did you have the Final mouse? if so what were your thoughts?


I'm actually at 400 CPI and 4.0 in source engine games. ^^

And yeah I have a FM. The sensor feel is awesome and raw and stuff and the clicks feel great, but I just can't get with the shape. It's too MX518 esque for me, and I wasn't a super huge fan of that shape.


----------



## dedd

What's your grip style?
- fingertip grip
What's your sensitivity?
- 1600dpi
What's your maximum budget?
- 50€
Do you want additional buttons?
- don't care
What games do you play?
- mostly fps
Do you mind about prediction?
- don't know
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
- i'm looking for a VERY lightweight mouse (<55g without the cord),
- average/high LOD, so i can put better mouse feet underneath to make it glide better(if the default feet are too small)


----------



## Helkeno

*Mouse*
*1. What's your grip style?*
Claw Grip
*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Low
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Don't have one
*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
I don't mind if they have them or they don't
*5. What games do you play?*
CSGO
*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't want prediction
*7. Other relevant information:*
Input anything else you want.
some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*- The mouse must have no acceleration/any input lag problems
-I'm open to try any shape really as long as I can claw grip it.
-The weight doesn't bother me either
-Braided cable is a must








- My hands sweat a lot so the coating must not wear over a long time
- I don't mind about software*
*Mouse Pad*
*7. Hard or cloth?*
Cloth
*8. Rough or smooth?*
Smooth
*9. Which size approximately?*
Something very large as I play on a low sensitivity sorry I cant give an approximate
*10. What's your maximum budget?*
Don't have one

Thanks in advance!


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dedd*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - fingertip grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> - 1600dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> - 50€
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - don't care
> What games do you play?
> - mostly fps
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - don't know
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> - i'm looking for a VERY lightweight mouse (<55g without the cord),
> - average/high LOD, so i can put better mouse feet underneath to make it glide better(if the default feet are too small)


Don't think they are any mice on the market that under 55 g. The old Abyssus was supposed to weigh like 50 but in reality it weighed over 70 g.


----------



## Maximillion

A 55g mouse would have to be both very small and have questionable build quality. I mean, I'm sure they exist but none with a sensor that's usable for FPS gaming.


----------



## Vortex Shade

What's your grip style?
*Not really sure to be honest. If i had to guess I'd say fingertip / claw hybrid (wrist sits on gel wrist rest, so palm never really touches the mouse)*
What's your sensitivity?
*Usually run at 3200 DPI*
What's your maximum budget?
*$95 AU (RMA credit at PC Case Gear, Australia)*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Besides the usual two side buttons not phased, i guess another one or two can't hurt)*
What games do you play?
*A bit of everything really, but mainly MMO's, Diablo 3, Heroes of the storm.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't want prediction.*
Other relevant information:
*Prefer non-ambidextrous, no wireless (unless wired/wireless hybrid).*

*Previous mice used:
Logitech G9 just got old and replaced with
Saitek Cyborg RAT 7 - started getting left click problems, replaced with
Roccat Kone Pure Military Naval Storm - loved this mouse, left and right click started failing after 6 months, just got RMA credit for it and need something new to replace it with as they only have the green one in stock which i don't want.
After using the KPM i find the old RAT 7 too heavy. So something light-ish would be nice.
Prefer Optical over Laser.
Prefer PC Case Gear (Australia) for store/mouse choices as i have credit with them.

Current mice i have in my "to be decided list are:
Courgar 300M
Asus ROG Gladius
Logitech G502
Cougar 500M

Possibly others...open to suggestions which is why I'm here and can't decide. haha

Hands are about 18cm from middle finger tip to wrist, about 8.5cm wide across widest part of palm.*


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> I'm actually at 400 CPI and 4.0 in source engine games. ^^
> 
> And yeah I have a FM. The sensor feel is awesome and raw and stuff and the clicks feel great, but I just can't get with the shape. It's too MX518 esque for me, and I wasn't a super huge fan of that shape.


Oh wow! From one extreme to the other


----------



## Shere Khan

What's your grip style? *Mostly Palm, maybe a little bit of claw hybrid.*
What's your sensitivity? *400 DPI*
What's your maximum budget? *100$*
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2 additional buttons is enough for me*
What games do you play? *Only CS: GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *I don't know what this means*
Other relevant information: *At the moment I am using a Deathadder 3.5G, and I am looking to upgrade. My hands are pretty small (18.5 cm). I would prefer a wired mouse.
*


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Oh wow! From one extreme to the other


Yeahh. I do that haha.

Also apparently I derped an ordered the Kana V1 instead of the V2.. ugh ***


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shere Khan*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Mostly Palm, maybe a little bit of claw hybrid.*
> What's your sensitivity? *400 DPI*
> What's your maximum budget? *100$*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2 additional buttons is enough for me*
> What games do you play? *Only CS: GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I don't know what this means*
> Other relevant information: *At the moment I am using a Deathadder 3.5G, and I am looking to upgrade. My hands are pretty small (18.5 cm). I would prefer a wired mouse.
> *


Zowie EC2-A looks like a pretty good fit for you. Its smaller then the DA 3.5G so if you don't want to go any smaller you could also look at the EC1-A.


----------



## Shere Khan

Thanks man, I was actually just looking into that mouse, and it seems perfect for me! I think I will order it, thank you!


----------



## b3rt

What's your grip style?
Palmgrip
What's your sensitivity?
400dpi 2.5 sensitivity (CS:GO) 2000-3000 dpi in MOBAS
What's your maximum budget?
100euros
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons
What games do you play?
Mainly CS:GO but also LoL and Dota2
Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction please
Other relevant information:
Palm length around 17-19 cm. I want optical sensor and the mouse should be wired. So, when my Zowie EC1-eVo broke in May after 3 years of use, I first bought an Zowie FK which was not comfortable to use, I didn't like the clawgrip style. Next I bought Razer Deathadder Chroma which was quite nice to grip (maybe a bit large), but the mouse buttons and the scrollwheel were horrible, and the sensor started to lag after under 2 months of use so that was not good either. Then I bought Zowie ZA12 which was not good either, because of the bump that was too far back so it was not comfortable to grip. The last one I bought was SteelSeries Rival, which I have in use now. Even this mouse feels bad to grip, because it's too high and it's a bit too large. So, I have already tried 4 different mice and none of them have felt that good to use, in one way or another. Also I grip the mouse in a way that my thumb has to touch the mousepad, so the mouse cant have an edge on the left side (like G402 and G502 do). *So, I would like an ergonomical wired optical mouse that is not too high or large and has good buttons, that are not too light to press.* I am considering Zowie EC-1 or EC-2. So what mouse should I get in your opinion?







Sorry about the bad grammar.


----------



## Jalkion

I am looking for a mouse with the a raw sensor/3310 implementation.

I am kinda stuck as I have a pretty big hand (20cm), so going for a KPM is not really an option.

What I have on my list so far is the:

Deathadder Chroma (does this still have smoothing issues that the 2013 had?)
Finalmouse 2015 (probably gonna go with this)
Logitech G402 (how raw is this sensor really?)
and
Zowie EC1-A (I have no clue good their 3310 implementation is, I hear the FK1 had a pretty bad implementation?)

are there other bigger mice that have a good raw sensor?


----------



## aerowalk30

@b3rt

The EC2 sounds like a good option for you. Its smaller then the DeathAdder but still allows for a really good ergonomic grip for someone around your hand size. Heres a picture of the left side of the mouse where your thumb would be, as you can see it would allow very easily for your thumb to rest on the mousepad as you described.










@Jalkion

What mice have you owned previously so its easier to make a judgment on what "raw" sensors you've used.

- FM 2015 has well done sensor implementation but the grip can get a little weird for some people, there's a lip on the side so it depends how you grip your mouse.

- The G402 can be slightly alien to hand with all the extra buttons, especially the "sniper" button that your thumb will undoubtedly rest on and can make for an odd sensation.

- EC1-A is decent in every way and the ergonomics in my opinion are arguable the best from any recent gaming company. Reminds me of the IE3.0.

- I haven't followed any information on the Chroma so I can't say anything on that.


----------



## Jalkion

I am using a Deathadder 3.5G right now and have been for a few years, before that a Steelseries Sensei and a Xai but my memory is not the greatest so I don't remember/even noticed what those mice felt like.

I am pretty ok with trying out new shapes that's not really an issue.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vortex Shade*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Not really sure to be honest. If i had to guess I'd say fingertip / claw hybrid (wrist sits on gel wrist rest, so palm never really touches the mouse)*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Usually run at 3200 DPI*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$95 AU (RMA credit at PC Case Gear, Australia)*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Besides the usual two side buttons not phased, i guess another one or two can't hurt)*
> What games do you play?
> *A bit of everything really, but mainly MMO's, Diablo 3, Heroes of the storm.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Don't want prediction.*
> Other relevant information:
> *Prefer non-ambidextrous, no wireless (unless wired/wireless hybrid).*
> 
> *Previous mice used:
> Logitech G9 just got old and replaced with
> Saitek Cyborg RAT 7 - started getting left click problems, replaced with
> Roccat Kone Pure Military Naval Storm - loved this mouse, left and right click started failing after 6 months, just got RMA credit for it and need something new to replace it with as they only have the green one in stock which i don't want.
> After using the KPM i find the old RAT 7 too heavy. So something light-ish would be nice.
> Prefer Optical over Laser.
> Prefer PC Case Gear (Australia) for store/mouse choices as i have credit with them.
> 
> Current mice i have in my "to be decided list are:
> Courgar 300M
> Asus ROG Gladius
> Logitech G502
> Cougar 500M
> 
> Possibly others...open to suggestions which is why I'm here and can't decide. haha
> 
> Hands are about 18cm from middle finger tip to wrist, about 8.5cm wide across widest part of palm.*


Seems that you don't have problem adjusting with different mouse shapes, so I would like to add Logitech G302/303 into your list. It's quite lightweight, good for fingertip & clawing.

And if you have G502 in your list, it won't hurt to also try the G402.


----------



## Vortex Shade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignsvn*
> 
> Seems that you don't have problem adjusting with different mouse shapes, so I would like to add Logitech G302/303 into your list. It's quite lightweight, good for fingertip & clawing.
> 
> And if you have G502 in your list, it won't hurt to also try the G402.


Yeah I'm pretty adaptable when it comes to mice and like logitech gear. (my old g9 and g15 are still kicking to this day, g9 was handed to my old man haha)
303 isn't available here yet sadly








I was thinking of just grabbing a G502 locally and if i don't like it, take it back and get something else. ~30g extra weight isn't a huge deal breaker to be honest, i did quite like the KPM though


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vortex Shade*
> 
> Yeah I'm pretty adaptable when it comes to mice and like logitech gear. (my old g9 and g15 are still kicking to this day, g9 was handed to my old man haha)
> 303 isn't available here yet sadly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking of just grabbing a G502 locally and if i don't like it, take it back and get something else. ~30g extra weight isn't a huge deal breaker to be honest, i did quite like the KPM though


Wait, you live in Australia, and G303 is not available yet?? If you don't need the sensor, what about G302?

Yeah was suggesting the G402 because it's the lightweight version of G502. A lot of people don't like G502 weight & scrollwheel, but it has one of the best sensors though.

Other contenders would be Zowie, Steelseries and Mionix, but I don't have much info on those.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalkion*
> 
> I am using a Deathadder 3.5G right now and have been for a few years, before that a Steelseries Sensei and a Xai but my memory is not the greatest so I don't remember/even noticed what those mice felt like.
> 
> I am pretty ok with trying out new shapes that's not really an issue.


Is there a reason you want to stop using the DA 3.5G? It was by far one of my favorite mice I ever used with a pretty sublime sensor.


----------



## Vortex Shade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignsvn*
> 
> Wait, you live in Australia, and G303 is not available yet?? If you don't need the sensor, what about G302?
> 
> Yeah was suggesting the G402 because it's the lightweight version of G502. A lot of people don't like G502 weight & scrollwheel, but it has one of the best sensors though.
> 
> Other contenders would be Zowie, Steelseries and Mionix, but I don't have much info on those.


Nah not yet, end of the month/early october i think it comes in.
Seeing what all the hype about the 502 sensor is about would be cool haha but yeah wouldn't say i "need" the sensor (who does really?) is the scroll wheel really that bad?. Can't be any worse than the cheapo mouse I'm using right now...

But yeah it's a toss up between the 402 (lighter) and 502(heavier but super sensor), really hard to judge without having them in your hand and pretty much shops have em out on display to pick up.








I'll pop down to harvey norman later and see if they have either out or in stock for that matter.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vortex Shade*
> 
> Nah not yet, end of the month/early october i think it comes in.
> Seeing what all the hype about the 502 sensor is about would be cool haha but yeah wouldn't say i "need" the sensor (who does really?) is the scroll wheel really that bad?. Can't be any worse than the cheapo mouse I'm using right now...
> 
> But yeah it's a toss up between the 402 (lighter) and 502(heavier but super sensor), really hard to judge without having them in your hand and pretty much shops have em out on display to pick up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll pop down to harvey norman later and see if they have either out or in stock for that matter.


Yeah.. I remember my gamer friend could easily pown us in CS1.6 using ball mouse so it's not really everything.

G502 scroll wheel is woobly (due to the free scroll / hyperscoll thingy). Some people don't like this








Some also mentioned that metal scroll wheel is slippery. Other than that, it's simply a superior G402.


----------



## Vortex Shade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignsvn*
> 
> Yeah.. I remember my gamer friend could easily pown us in CS1.6 using ball mouse so it's not really everything.
> 
> G502 scroll wheel is woobly (due to the free scroll / hyperscoll thingy). Some people don't like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some also mentioned that metal scroll wheel is slippery. Other than that, it's simply a superior G402.


Yeah true, this mouse sucks balls though (freebie that came with a game my brother bought, witcher 2 i think?), terribly uncomfortable, i really don't like ambidextrous mice.

Ah yep, same as the G9 had with the free scroll (i think it had a little wobble in it), doesn't bother me that much and i actually don't mind metal scroll wheels.

So i guess I'll find out later, hopefully i like at least one of them cause I've just about had enough of this thing I'm using now as a fill in...


----------



## daunow

Good lightweight mouses? Zowie and Steelseries mouse shapes.


----------



## EnigmaBlackhawk

After some thought and research I've narrowed my list down to 7 mice:

Logitech G303
Finalmouse 2015
Roccat Kone Pure Military
Zowie FK-2/EC2-A
Mionix Castor
Razer Deathadder Chroma
ASUS ROG Gladius

Can anyone who has had these mice give a recommendation on what would suit me best? I have fingertip grip, prefer <100g, prefer lighting effects, low LOD, matte finish, braided, and most important of all a second-to-none sensor performance.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnigmaBlackhawk*
> 
> After some thought and research I've narrowed my list down to 7 mice:
> 
> Logitech G303
> Finalmouse 2015
> Roccat Kone Pure Military
> Zowie FK-2/EC2-A
> Mionix Castor
> Razer Deathadder Chroma
> ASUS ROG Gladius
> 
> Can anyone who has had these mice give a recommendation on what would suit me best? I have fingertip grip, prefer <100g, prefer lighting effects, low LOD, matte finish, braided, and most important of all a second-to-none sensor performance.


Logitech G303 or Mionix Castor checks all those marks. Logitech has better sensor performance so it really comes down to shape preference.


----------



## zekron

Havent tried many different mice before so I cant decide of what suits me.

Used the DA 4G but it felt too big because i kept moving my hand upward on the mice which made my fingers over-extend the buttons.The surface also made me sweat like hell. Tracking experience was great though!

What's your grip style? Full palm
What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI / ~20-21cm/360
What's your maximum budget? 100$
Do you want additional buttons? Dont use them, dont mind them
What games do you play? CSGO
Do you mind about prediction? Dont know how this feels in use.
Other relevant information:
Surface thats has decent grip and doesnt provoke sweating


----------



## rioreiser

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
Medium
What's your maximum budget?
none
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons at least
What games do you play?
CSGO
Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction please
Other relevant information:
currently i got the mionix naos 7k, but the scrollwheelbutton is stopping to work. also i never really got used to the shape. i think the new mionix castor could fit my hand/grip better. overall i want to buy a mouse with the best sensor available. is there such a thing as the 'best' sensor currently available, and what mice feature this sensor? thanks


----------



## Zednix

What's your grip style?
Palm-claw hybrid


http://imgur.com/a


What's your sensitivity?
2000 DPI (is that high? not sure where to set it)
What's your maximum budget?
$150
Do you want additional buttons?
2 on the thumb side
What games do you play?
Battlefield 4, Europa Universalis IV, Skyrim, Fallout, CSGO.
Do you mind about prediction?
No idea if I've ever experienced this.
Other relevant information:
I have a Razer Naga, my last 2 mice before that were the Razer Imperator and the Diamondback. I want to move away from Razer. I have big hands as well, I was looking at the Zowie EC1-A if that gives an idea of sizing.


----------



## psych7

What's your grip style? Palm and claw hybrid

What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI 2,8 ingame

What's your maximum budget? 80€

Do you want additional buttons? 2 additional buttons on the left side! Right handed mouse!

What games do you play? Only CS: GO

Do you mind about prediction? No angle snapping or other things.

Other relevant information: I had played a lot of years with the mx518/g400 but I want to try something new. Since ~April I am looking for a new mouse. I ve tried the rival, ec1-a, ec2-a (actually mouse) and za12.
I have a special grip :/ thumb on the left, pinky on the right and the other three fingers on top (middle finger over the scrollwheel, ring finger mouse). That's because my eight years experiences with the MX







i cant hold a mouse in an other way.
I tried an ergonomical mice but I thing an ambidextrous mouse is better for me. But there is a big problem







I clicked a lot of time the right "thumb" buttons with my pinky. Very uncomfortable :/

So I am looking for an ambidextrous mouse with only left side buttons.
The ec1 is a little too small for me, but the ec1 was too wide







can't lift the ec1 easily. My fingers are long but thin :/

Any suggestions for me? :/


----------



## LeetGrandpa

What's your grip style?
Claw / finger
What's your sensitivity?
prolly around 35cm/360
What's your maximum budget?
The cheaper the better, 65€ tops
Do you want additional buttons?
Not really
What games do you play?
Quake is prolly the only really competitive fps I play, but I like good mouse performance in all fps games.
Do you mind about prediction?
doesn't matter, but without would be better
Other relevant information:
Small size, low LOD, lightweight, driverless (or at least with functional, non cloud drivers) would be preffered. Low button lag would also be nice.


----------



## psych7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LeetGrandpa*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw / finger
> What's your sensitivity?
> prolly around 35cm/360
> What's your maximum budget?
> The cheaper the better, 65€ tops
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Not really
> What games do you play?
> Quake is prolly the only really competitive fps I play, but I like good mouse performance in all fps games.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> doesn't matter, but without would be better
> Other relevant information:
> Small size, low LOD, lightweight, driverless (or at least with functional, non cloud drivers) would be preffered. Low button lag would also be nice.


Maybe Zowie FK2,ZA13, (EC2-A) or Logitech G100s


----------



## LeetGrandpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psych7*
> 
> Maybe Zowie FK2,ZA13, (EC2-A) or Logitech G100s


I was thinking of FK2, it has all nice features except a bit of button lag (maybe that is not a big deal).
Had G100s, it was almost perfect, but the buttons were horrible and it started registring doubleclicks this week, after 6 months. So I hope I will get something in exchange for that, g302 maybe.


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find a relatively up-to-date source (chart or listing) on mice weight?


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzbKDmFOqsP_ut2RdctD01OEbZzbXol6HLwqVkSmZcg/edit#gid=0

Thats the first one that springs to mind.


----------



## miklkit

What's your grip style? palm I guess
What's your sensitivity? 2000dpi
What's your maximum budget? $100 usd
Do you want additional buttons? not really needed
What games do you play? various rpg and fps
Do you mind about prediction? dunno what that is
Other relevant information: I am currently using a Logitech G500. It has given good service and works fine except that it is too small. The heel of my hand and the two small fingertips drag on the mousepad. Is there a longer wider mouse in my price range?


----------



## eth444n

What's your grip style? palm with big hands
What's your sensitivity? 400dpi low sens (cs player)
What's your maximum budget? nothing stupid
Do you want additional buttons? more than 2 side buttons annoys me
What games do you play? csgo
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, cant have that
Other relevant information: I am using a Rival and there are many problems with it, a good accurate sensor is the top priority for me


----------



## Wolfwere

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
High (something between 5 - 8 cm/360º)

3. What's your maximum budget?
Flexible, would prefer cheap (~$40) but willing to go as high as $150 or so, if it means a dependable mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Don't need more than a single side button, tough I really liked the easy to reach buttons near the wheel my old MX1000 had a long time ago.

5. What games do you play?
Used to play a lot of FPS and still need a mouse that can perform, but lately it's been mostly RTS style controls like Dota 2 and some Nuclear Throne and such.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Hate it, even mild acceleration.

7. Other relevant information:
Precision is the top priority (the ability to reliably aim blindly). I should mention that I game mainly on Linux or FreeBSD (via wine,linuxulator or applicable). Other miscellaneous info below.

I have big hands; I don't mind small mice too much, but gaming on the portable Microsoft Wireless 4000, for example, can be a little tiring. Also prefer lighter mice, but don't mind a little bulk, the same thing with fatigue. On the fly CPI adjustments (or any adjustments to CPI really) are unnecessary, I use the same sensitivity across the board. Corded mice are preferred for gaming and I would rather not have to deal with drivers at all. I also tend prefer the ambidextrous designs because of my tendency to twist the mouse between my fingertips.

I heavily distrust Razer, being one of the suckers who bought the first Lachesis with it's crappy skipping sensor. Weirdly, it seems even top tier mice have trouble comparing to the reliability of this a4tech 2 wheel monstrosity I used in my teens, though.

I'm a little lost on the whole mice situation today; many people recommend the Razer DeathAddder, but that snake already bit me, and otherwise everyone seems to just have personal favorites. I don't know if it's even advisable to buy an old PS/2 800CPI optical mouse (like the Microsoft Intelimouse quake players loved) and an USB adapter and be done with it, given how modern games and OSs deal with input.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Just realized I quoted and "helped" a post from months ago lol. Feel free to delete this post. Thx.


----------



## Cool Blue

1. Grip style: Palm, or a very palmish claw.
2. Sensitivity: 400 dpi, low sensitivity in game (1.68 in csgo)
3. Budget: I can pay as long as the mouse is worth it.
4. Do I want additional buttons?: Yes, but I can sacrifice them, they're neat.
5. Games: FPS.
6. About prediction: A no no, I want it to be an exact replica of my hand movement.
7. I want a mouse that glides well, is about the size of the g400s, is very lightweight, can last at least a year, and possibly full black. I'm heavily considering the finalmouse and the zowie ec1 a.


----------



## Christo4

1. Grip style: claw, fingertip usually
2. Sensitivity: not important, maybe at least 1000, good sensor
3. Budget: 40 euros at most
4. Yes, they are quite useful.
5. Fps, Tps, Rts. Everything really
6. Not really
7. Sensor is pretty important since i play fast games like Osu!. Precision is important. Also, good switches for clicks are also important.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cool Blue*
> 
> 1. Grip style: Palm, or a very palmish claw.
> 2. Sensitivity: 400 dpi, low sensitivity in game (1.68 in csgo)
> 3. Budget: I can pay as long as the mouse is worth it.
> 4. Do I want additional buttons?: Yes, but I can sacrifice them, they're neat.
> 5. Games: FPS.
> 6. About prediction: A no no, I want it to be an exact replica of my hand movement.
> 7. I want a mouse that glides well, is about the size of the g400s, is very lightweight, can last at least a year, and possibly full black. I'm heavily considering the finalmouse and the zowie ec1 a.


Really depends what you like from how the mouse feels. I find the EC1 to have softer curves while the FM2015 has a more aggressive curvature, not quite unlike the G400. But either one is a good choice. The FM2015 is significantly lighter then the EC1, 74g to the EC1's 97g.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Christo4*
> 
> 1. Grip style: claw, fingertip usually
> 2. Sensitivity: not important, maybe at least 1000, good sensor
> 3. Budget: 40 euros at most
> 4. Yes, they are quite useful.
> 5. Fps, Tps, Rts. Everything really
> 6. Not really
> 7. Sensor is pretty important since i play fast games like Osu!. Precision is important. Also, good switches for clicks are also important.


I would take a look at the Logitech G303, very precise sensor and solid clicks. Catering more towards the claw/fingertip gamers.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Using the G303 for osu is just asking for RSI


----------



## Christo4

The g303 is almost 50% over my budget though...


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Christo4*
> 
> The g303 is almost 50% over my budget though...


Oh sorry I had mis-read a listing I saw on Ebay. Although I do see Amazon has it for €55. Maybe take a look at the Abyssus 2014, although no side buttons. There aren't to many mice in that price range I can think of to be honest.


----------



## Christo4

Yeah i thought as much, it's no prob though.
Lately not many producers want to make cheap mice with good sensors apparently...
The only reason i used side buttons were for fps's for melee kills, so it's not THAT necessary.


----------



## Cool Blue

(I would quote aerowalk if I knew how to) Turns out the FinalMouse is out of stock in amazon worldwide. It's the one I'm leaning towards. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cool Blue*
> 
> (I would quote aerowalk if I knew how to) Turns out the FinalMouse is out of stock in amazon worldwide. It's the one I'm leaning towards. Thanks for the reply!


Theres a quote option bottom right of every post.

FinalMouse tweeted this on the 9th.

"We have word more Finalmouse's should be in stock any day now... in both North America and Europe! Some are also coming to Germany!"

So just keep an eye out.


----------



## 7Teku

So yeah, to those who read my previous post in this thread, my WMO from takasta finally came in. Shape is amazing. Sensor is, well, you know <3. Though the right edge of the RMB hangs over the ledge and really bothers my ring finger. Thinking of sanding it down or trying to bend it (didn't some people do this with the aurora for better click feel?). Any other suggestions?


----------



## Eleore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> So yeah, to those who read my previous post in this thread, my WMO from takasta finally came in. Shape is amazing. Sensor is, well, you know <3. Though the right edge of the RMB hangs over the ledge and really bothers my ring finger. Thinking of sanding it down or trying to bend it (didn't some people do this with the aurora for better click feel?). Any other suggestions?


We're pretty much in the same boat; do keep me informed!


----------



## zekron

Hello,

I would like help on what mice should I look upon.I read many threads about different mice but the sheer number and inability to try multiple mice gets me nowhere.

What's your grip style? Claw grip ( It's kinda more low profile.My button fingers arent positioned steep Example )
What's your sensitivity? Mid~Low (Takes more than 1 sweep to 360)
What's your maximum budget? ~70eur
Do you want additional buttons? No difference.I dont use them with my current setup
What games do you play? CSGO
Do you mind about prediction? No opinion on this.
Other relevant information:
I would like it to be on the smaller side couse I dont have big hands (~17cm). Also I do lift my mouse ALOT so I would like that the mouse would have a decent grip.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? palm I guess
> What's your sensitivity? 2000dpi
> What's your maximum budget? $100 usd
> Do you want additional buttons? not really needed
> What games do you play? various rpg and fps
> Do you mind about prediction? dunno what that is
> Other relevant information: I am currently using a Logitech G500. It has given good service and works fine except that it is too small. The heel of my hand and the two small fingertips drag on the mousepad. Is there a longer wider mouse in my price range?


My solution for a larger mouse that keeps my hand off the mouse pad is the Evoluent VM4. My first impression is that this thing is waaaaay better then the G500. It is light and comfortable. The only thing I want so far is a rougher surface that grips my hand better as it can get a little slippery when lifting.


----------



## El Scotch

Can anyone recommend a mouse that feels like the FK1 in hand?

I've tried the ZA series but I don't like the raised rear.


----------



## refirendum

Can someone help me devide between a Nyth, a Kone Pure, and a Tyon? i've narrowed it down to these three base on my preferences, but now i'm stuck


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *refirendum*
> 
> Can someone help me devide between a Nyth, a Kone Pure, and a Tyon? i've narrowed it down to these three base on my preferences, but now i'm stuck


What preferences did you use apart from they're all roccat?

All of them are designed for completely different reasons.


----------



## refirendum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *refirendum*
> 
> Can someone help me devide between a Nyth, a Kone Pure, and a Tyon? i've narrowed it down to these three base on my preferences, but now i'm stuck
> 
> 
> 
> What preferences did you use apart from they're all roccat?
> 
> All of them are designed for completely different reasons.
Click to expand...

I like the shape of all of them, i'm used to the shape of the kone, but i like the features on the tyon, but the same featureset found on the tyon isn't found on the nyth and vice versa. I want to try something other than the kone line, but i know already that I will very much like the kone if i do get it. I'm just wondering if I would come to enjoy these other offerings more than the more plain and simple kone pure. i do mmo, rts, games that are first-person (not fps though)


----------



## Twiffle

1. *What's your grip style?* _A: Palm/Claw hybrid (mostly I just palm my mouse though)_
2. *What's your sensitivity?* _A: 800 DPI_
3. *What's your maximum budget?* _A: Don't have really a budget, but if I'd have to say a budget.. perhaps around 80-100 euros?_
4. *Do you want additional buttons?* _A: Additional buttons aren't really necessary other than DPI switch button._
5. *What games do you play?* _A: CS:GO,BF4 and occasionally TERA ._
6. *Do you mind about prediction?* _A: Don't want any kind of prediction or acceleration_
7. *Other relevant information:* _I have quite small hands . Around 16.5 - 18cm . I have had: DeathAdder, Mionix Naos 8200, Zowie FK1, Zowie EC1-A, Roccat Kone XTD, Logitech G502/G303 and SteelSeries Rival mouses. Basically I have been buying wrong mouses all this time, instead of smaller I went for bigger ones... until I realized that they're way too big for me. I hope that at Overclockers I could get some help finding a perfect gaming mouse for me so my "hunt for perfect gaming mouse " would come to an end._


----------



## MaximilianKohler

There's no such thing as a perfect gaming mouse. A decent small one is the Aurora or WMO maybe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zekron*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Havent tried many different mice before so I cant decide of what suits me.
> 
> Used the DA 4G but it felt too big because i kept moving my hand upward on the mice which made my fingers over-extend the buttons.The surface also made me sweat like hell. Tracking experience was great though!
> 
> What's your grip style? Full palm
> What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI / ~20-21cm/360
> What's your maximum budget? 100$
> Do you want additional buttons? Dont use them, dont mind them
> What games do you play? CSGO
> Do you mind about prediction? Dont know how this feels in use.
> Other relevant information:
> Surface thats has decent grip and doesnt provoke sweating


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eth444n*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? palm with big hands
> What's your sensitivity? 400dpi low sens (cs player)
> What's your maximum budget? nothing stupid
> Do you want additional buttons? more than 2 side buttons annoys me
> What games do you play? csgo
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, cant have that
> Other relevant information: I am using a Rival and there are many problems with it, a good accurate sensor is the top priority for me


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rioreiser*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> Medium
> What's your maximum budget?
> none
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons at least
> What games do you play?
> CSGO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no prediction please
> Other relevant information:
> currently i got the mionix naos 7k, but the scrollwheelbutton is stopping to work. also i never really got used to the shape. i think the new mionix castor could fit my hand/grip better. overall i want to buy a mouse with the best sensor available. is there such a thing as the 'best' sensor currently available, and what mice feature this sensor? thanks


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There's no such thing as a perfect gaming mouse. A decent small one is the Aurora or WMO maybe.


I'm not interested in WMO. As for Aurora.. it looks like one of those cheap chinese "gaming" mouses(and seeing people mention that you might have to buy couple of them to get at least one that works as intended). I appreciate your opinion and your love for those two mouses(perhaps three if we count in The Final Mouse). I'm looking for something that's from this century, equipped with a good sensor.

Ideal and "Perfect" gaming mouse for me would be around 118-122mm length.

Mouses that I've been considering: Mionix Castor and Roccat Kone Pure Military. Apart from those two I'm not sure if there's any other decent small gaming mouses that are suited for competitive fps gaming.

Of course there isn't a perfect gaming mouse that would have been announced world wide, but everyone has one that is perfect for them. For you it would be WMO.

Perfect gaming mouse in my mind would be : Fits your hand size, it feels comfortable, doesn't have built in acceleration/prediction, has DPI switch and a good optical sensor

This is just my opinion regarding this.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I'm not interested in WMO. As for Aurora.. it looks like one of those cheap chinese "gaming" mouses(and seeing people mention that you might have to buy couple of them to get at least one that works as intended). I appreciate your opinion and your love for those two mouses(perhaps three if we count in The Final Mouse). I'm looking for something that's from this century, equipped with a good sensor.
> 
> Ideal and "Perfect" gaming mouse for me would be around 118-122mm length.
> 
> Mouses that I've been considering: Mionix Castor and Roccat Kone Pure Military. Apart from those two I'm not sure if there's any other decent small gaming mouses that are suited for competitive fps gaming.
> 
> Of course there isn't a perfect gaming mouse that would have been announced world wide, but everyone has one that is perfect for them. For you it would be WMO.
> 
> Perfect gaming mouse in my mind would be : Fits your hand size, it feels comfortable, doesn't have built in acceleration/prediction, has DPI switch and a good optical sensor
> 
> This is just my opinion regarding this.


The Ninox Aurora is probably the best mouse right now if u want a small, super light mouse. It's only downside to me right now is how thick the cable is. I've been a fan of Kinzu for 5 years but the shape of the Aurora and sensor is better. And isn't Castor a pretty big mouse? Think it's about the same size as Sensei which feels gigantic compared to Aurora and Kinzu.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> The Ninox Aurora is probably the best mouse right now if u want a small, super light mouse. It's only downside to me right now is how thick the cable is. I've been a fan of Kinzu for 5 years but the shape of the Aurora and sensor is better. And isn't Castor a pretty big mouse? Think it's about the same size as Sensei which feels gigantic compared to Aurora and Kinzu.


Mionix Castor is around 122-123m if I remember right. Not sure about Kinzu's size, since I never had one. I just got my hands on Zowie EC2-A it feels so much better than my EC1-A . Tomorrow getting Roccat Kone Pure Military. My only worry now is, what if I dislike ergonomic shape? I see that I'm trying to grip my EC2-A same way I grip ambidextrous. If it will come to that I actually prefer ambidextrous better, I think I will just try to find someone to trade the mouse for ZA 13, unless Roccat has similar size ambidextrous mouse.

As for Aurora and it's thick cable, that might pose a problem. I use Razer mouse bungee and I actually had to fight a bit with my EC2-A's cable to make it fit there.

Could you describe The Ninox Aurora a bit? you said "it is probably the best mouse right now if you want a small super light mouse" like what makes it be best? It uses the older 3090 sensor, if I remember right? Also I'm kind of afraid of ordering one of those if there's many defective mouses among them. And non of the retailers sell those here.. so I'd have to order one from Amazon. And to get one it probably would take about a week to receive it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

No, the WMO or any MLT04 mouse is not my perfect mouse. Which is why I'm on these forums looking for a replacement. No one can have a perfect mouse atm because every mouse has significant flaws/shortcomings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> " like what makes it be best? It uses the older 3090 sensor, if I remember right?


That's only important if you really want to use a 50 DPI incremental step. What makes it one of the best is the implementation.

Quote:


> Also I'm kind of afraid of ordering one of those if there's many defective mouses among them. And non of the retailers sell those here.. so I'd have to order one from Amazon. And to get one it probably would take about a week to receive it.


Well Amazon does have free return shipping if the product is defective, but yeah if you don't want to risk the time without a mouse then just go with the KPM which is more or less on par.


----------



## Tapsa

I am looking for the most durable mouse that exists.
1. Fingertip grip / don't care.
2. High sensitivity (5 cm / 360 degrees)
3. Budget depends on mouse durability. Mouse lasting 5 years can be 100 €.
4. Yes, programmable buttons for macros. Maybe extra scroll wheel for horizontal scrolling.
5. Shooters, RTS.
6. Zero acceleration, but I like straight lines.
7. Wired, preferably driverless (except for macros), can be used on any surface, silent buttons.

Is Razer Mamba good, durable?


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Mionix Castor is around 122-123m if I remember right. Not sure about Kinzu's size, since I never had one. I just got my hands on Zowie EC2-A it feels so much better than my EC1-A . Tomorrow getting Roccat Kone Pure Military. My only worry now is, what if I dislike ergonomic shape? I see that I'm trying to grip my EC2-A same way I grip ambidextrous. If it will come to that I actually prefer ambidextrous better, I think I will just try to find someone to trade the mouse for ZA 13, unless Roccat has similar size ambidextrous mouse.
> 
> As for Aurora and it's thick cable, that might pose a problem. I use Razer mouse bungee and I actually had to fight a bit with my EC2-A's cable to make it fit there.
> 
> Could you describe The Ninox Aurora a bit? you said "it is probably the best mouse right now if you want a small super light mouse" like what makes it be best? It uses the older 3090 sensor, if I remember right? Also I'm kind of afraid of ordering one of those if there's many defective mouses among them. And non of the retailers sell those here.. so I'd have to order one from Amazon. And to get one it probably would take about a week to receive it.


After using the Aurora in CSGO for about 2-4h i dont really recommend it anymore. The sensor failed a few times in a weird way my other mice never do, except my Sensei Raw. The shape is a also a bit narrow, Kinzu seems to be wider and fits my hand better. FM15 and Kinzu also feels lighter than the Aurora, probably because of the cord but i gonna weigh it and see. I would try Kinzu V3 if i were u, best mouse for small hands imo.


----------



## DanelM

Fingertip
1600-2000 DPI range
€100
2 additional thumb buttons are a must (back and forward), the rest I don't much care about.
RPG, shooters, some Starcraft
If I can turn it off, I don't mind.
Other relevant information: I'd prefer a braided cable, the rest I don't much care about. I'm currently using a Roccat Kone XTD, but the left click switch is double-clicking, so I'm thinking of replacing it. I've been watching the Mionix Castor and Razer Deathadder 2013 lately, but if there are better options then I'm up for them.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> After using the Aurora in CSGO for about 2-4h i dont really recommend it anymore. The sensor failed a few times in a weird way my other mice never do, except my Sensei Raw. The shape is a also a bit narrow, Kinzu seems to be wider and fits my hand better. FM15 and Kinzu also feels lighter than the Aurora, probably because of the cord but i gonna weigh it and see. I would try Kinzu V3 if i were u, best mouse for small hands imo.


Can I guess the sensor issue you had with the Aurora was it spinning out and looking up at the sky/ground on certain swipes? And that you're using a QCK of some form? Just curious.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> After using the Aurora in CSGO for about 2-4h i dont really recommend it anymore. The sensor failed a few times in a weird way my other mice never do, except my Sensei Raw. The shape is a also a bit narrow, Kinzu seems to be wider and fits my hand better. FM15 and Kinzu also feels lighter than the Aurora, probably because of the cord but i gonna weigh it and see. I would try Kinzu V3 if i were u, best mouse for small hands imo.


Yeah I really don't want my mouse to fail on me on CSGO (especially on SMFC level) . Getting tomorrow Roccat Kone Pure Military. If I come to a conclusion that ergonomic shaped mouses aren't my thing I will consider Zowie ZA11 or Kinzu V3


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Can I guess the sensor issue you had with the Aurora was it spinning out and looking up at the sky/ground on certain swipes? And that you're using a QCK of some form? Just curious.


When I had SteelSeries Rival, it used to do that stuff, but I think it was cause it wasn't stable on 1000hz . Did even some research on it, and most people use Rival on 500hz. Would like to hear more opinions regarding Aurora though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

That malfunction thing on the Aurora is fixed by adding the extra set of mousefeet.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> When I had SteelSeries Rival, it used to do that stuff, but I think it was cause it wasn't stable on 1000hz . Did even some research on it, and most people use Rival on 500hz. Would like to hear more opinions regarding Aurora though.


\

I really like the feel of the Aurora's sensor, its definitely up there as a favorite.






I did also test it on 500hz and it does the same thing. Something about 3090/3010 sensors for me this problem always crops up. Primarily on a QCK+ but also on a couple other mouse-pads mostly tighter weave fabric.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That malfunction thing on the Aurora is fixed by adding the extra set of mousefeet.


This. The problem disappeared once you stack the mouse feet. I had the same problem when I put an Aurora PCB into a WMO shell and it took some tweaking it get it acting right.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Can I guess the sensor issue you had with the Aurora was it spinning out and looking up at the sky/ground on certain swipes? And that you're using a QCK of some form? Just curious.


Yes, doing long wide swipes caused the cursor to spin and look at the ground a few times. Never had this problem with kinzu v3. Using a qpad ct mousepad


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Yes, doing long wide swipes caused the cursor to spin and look at the ground a few times. Never had this problem with kinzu v3. Using a qpad ct mousepad


I would try stacking the mouse-feet, a solution that has worked for most. If that doesn't work theres not much else you can do unless you were to take it apart and raise the sensor internally.


----------



## Cipri

I want a mouse medium as size for palm grip . Not that Deathadder or Rival !
Especially :
- height : ~ 35 mm or less
- lenght : ~ 110 mm or less

Help !









What about Logitech G300s ???


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *refirendum*
> 
> I like the shape of all of them, i'm used to the shape of the kone, but i like the features on the tyon, but the same featureset found on the tyon isn't found on the nyth and vice versa. I want to try something other than the kone line, but i know already that I will very much like the kone if i do get it. I'm just wondering if I would come to enjoy these other offerings more than the more plain and simple kone pure. i do mmo, rts, games that are first-person (not fps though)


Kone XTD Optical by default.

If you think that the thumb paddle on the Tyon would be useful, go for that.

If you like the idea of changing button setup on Nyth, get that, but it doesn't seem so practical.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> \
> 
> I really like the feel of the Aurora's sensor, its definitely up there as a favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did also test it on 500hz and it does the same thing. Something about 3090/3010 sensors for me this problem always crops up. Primarily on a QCK+ but also on a couple other mouse-pads mostly tighter weave fabric.
> This. The problem disappeared once you stack the mouse feet. I had the same problem when I put an Aurora PCB into a WMO shell and it took some tweaking it get it acting right.


Just received Roccat Kone Pure Military (Desert Strike) it feels soooo much more comfortable than Zowie EC2-A, even can get a better grip with it. Unfortunately I can't make the cable fit in Razer Mouse bungee *sigh* . And it seems from the local gaming stores they're all out of Zowie mouse bungees. I heard Zowie's mouse bungee is the best. I guess I'll just have to figure out something for the cable for now.

Does The Ninox Aurora come with extra mouse feet , or do you have to order them separately?


----------



## refirendum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *refirendum*
> 
> I like the shape of all of them, i'm used to the shape of the kone, but i like the features on the tyon, but the same featureset found on the tyon isn't found on the nyth and vice versa. I want to try something other than the kone line, but i know already that I will very much like the kone if i do get it. I'm just wondering if I would come to enjoy these other offerings more than the more plain and simple kone pure. i do mmo, rts, games that are first-person (not fps though)
> 
> 
> 
> Kone XTD Optical by default.
> 
> If you think that the thumb paddle on the Tyon would be useful, go for that.
> 
> If you like the idea of changing button setup on Nyth, get that, but it doesn't seem so practical.
Click to expand...

i guess since i like limited run stuff, i'll get a kone pure in white.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Just received Roccat Kone Pure Military (Desert Strike) it feels soooo much more comfortable than Zowie EC2-A, even can get a better grip with it. Unfortunately I can't make the cable fit in Razer Mouse bungee *sigh* . And it seems from the local gaming stores they're all out of Zowie mouse bungees. I heard Zowie's mouse bungee is the best. I guess I'll just have to figure out something for the cable for now.
> 
> Does The Ninox Aurora come with extra mouse feet , or do you have to order them separately?


Comes with the extra mousefeet.


----------



## MLJS54

I'm debating trying the MX 518 - one of the few shapes I've yet to ever try. I tend to claw grip and my hands are ~18cm from my wrist to the top of my middle finger. Is the MX shape going to be too large to claw? Right now I can claw my DA pretty well.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I'm debating trying the MX 518 - one of the few shapes I've yet to ever try. I tend to claw grip and my hands are ~18cm from my wrist to the top of my middle finger. Is the MX shape going to be too large to claw? Right now I can claw my DA pretty well.


No one on this forum can tell you if an MX518 or any other mouse will fit you.

Can you imagine going into a clothes store and asking some stranger will these jeans fit me or not? Never will happen because you need to try them on and see, just like buying mice to see which one will fit your right hand.

People in general should stop asking such inane questions of fit because not everyone here comes with the exact shaped hands, unless they're actual clones.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I'm debating trying the MX 518 - one of the few shapes I've yet to ever try. I tend to claw grip and my hands are ~18cm from my wrist to the top of my middle finger. Is the MX shape going to be too large to claw? Right now I can claw my DA pretty well.


To help you out, you could look at the dimensions of other mice and see what's closer to the DA or MX518's shape or measurement. This gives you a rough idea if a mouse will be comfortable for you. For example this picture:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*


The EC series is identical to the DA's shape. EC1-A is palm grip and is EC2-A is a claw or claw+palm grip. But just don't look at Zowie mice, there are other mice that are great for claw grip.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I'm debating trying the MX 518 - one of the few shapes I've yet to ever try. I tend to claw grip and my hands are ~18cm from my wrist to the top of my middle finger. Is the MX shape going to be too large to claw? Right now I can claw my DA pretty well.


Don't forget mx 518 have that right side lip... Don't know if it's any good/comfortable for claw grip...


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> To help you out, you could look at the dimensions of other mice and see what's closer to the DA or MX518's shape or measurement. This gives you a rough idea if a mouse will be comfortable for you. For example this picture:
> The EC series is identical to the DA's shape. EC1-A is palm grip and is EC2-A is a claw or claw+palm grip. But just don't look at Zowie mice, there are other mice that are great for claw grip.


give me suggestion for good claw grip mouse


----------



## Twiffle

I got to get my hands on my old Sidewinder X8 mouse which I had given to my cousin (ofc the mouse is dead sadly...) the shape of it, especially from the back side. The whole mouse fit my hand perfectly. Sadly it is a discontinued product. Does anyone know any alternatives to it? similar shape? The size can be around same 125mm or a bit less. I especially fell in love with the "depth" ? mean the height of it cause it made my whole palm go on the back nicely.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I got to get my hands on my old Sidewinder X8 mouse which I had given to my cousin (ofc the mouse is dead sadly...) the shape of it, especially from the back side. The whole mouse fit my hand perfectly. Sadly it is a discontinued product. Does anyone know any alternatives to it? similar shape? The size can be around same 125mm or a bit less. I especially fell in love with the "depth" ? mean the height of it cause it made my whole palm go on the back nicely.


I dunno, that mouse is pretty big right? I think u will like Finalmouse if u want something that fills your palm. It's not a small mouse but the grip and light weight makes it work with smaller hands.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> I dunno, that mouse is pretty big right? I think u will like Finalmouse if u want something that fills your palm. It's not a small mouse but the grip and light weight makes it work with smaller hands.


Hmmh okay. I will check some reviews on it and I will most likely buy it next week to see how it fits . Just found couple more mouse candidates for myself. FinalMouse 2015, Roccat Savu and Zowie ZA12 . I like how the arch thing is more to the back of mouse rather than to the middle. With Zowie ZA aand Roccat Savu seems to have arch more to the back, so should be nice. I'm not sure about FinalMouse though.. as I haven't seen it properly from sides.


----------



## Cipri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cipri*
> 
> I want a mouse medium as size for palm grip . Not that Deathadder or Rival !
> Especially :
> - height : ~ 35 mm or less
> - lenght : ~ 110 mm or less
> 
> Help !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Logitech G300s ???


aNYONE CAN HELP ME ?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cipri*
> 
> aNYONE CAN HELP ME ?


you're looking for a pretty small mouse for palm grip. Only options I know of would be: Zowie EC2-A, The Ninox Aurora, Logitech G300s and Zowie ZA13 . Zowie ZA and EC2-A are around 120mm length and Ninox Aurora and G300s are around 117-118mm if I remember correctly. It would also help if you could tell about your hand size. Forgot to mention that then there's also Roccat Kone Pure (Military) which is pretty small mouse.


----------



## JulioCesarSF

What is a good substitute for SS Rival?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulioCesarSF*
> 
> What is a good substitute for SS Rival?


Kone Pure Military


----------



## JulioCesarSF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Kone Pure Military


Polar Blue is the same but with different color, right?

edit: they are different.


----------



## rannox

Looking for a large mouse for Claw, or hybrid grip.

What's your grip style? *Hybrid Claw/Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *1600dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *$75*
Do you want additional buttons? *Tilt is nice, but not a necessity*
What games do you play? *FPS, MMO, ARTS*
Do you mind about prediction? *Prefer as little as possible, but comfort comes first*
Other relevant information: *I have large hands (10.5in pinky to thumb)*
If there is something out there similar to a Rival, but like .5in-1in wider, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat.

Mice that were close:
Kone [+]
Saitek gm3200
G5

Some typical suggestions that I've already tried and ruled out:
RAT 7: It just feels wonky when its maxed out,
Naos: Its actually a lot smaller than people think
DA: Not tall enough or wide enough
g502: Too thin.
Naga: Just no...


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Kone Pure Military is a lot smaller than SS Rival though. Especially from height. You have to have really thin and small hands to use it. Had it for couple days but sadly had to return it to the store. I loved how the sensor performed and how the mouse was working REALLY REALLY well. Sadly just a bit too small for me (17-18cm hands) . If Roccat would make something that's between Roccat Kone Pure and Roccat Kone XTD size, I think that'd be perfect. Roccat Savu might be something between I suppose but it doesn't have adjustable lift-off distance as far as I know.
> 
> substitute for SS Rival would probably be : Roccat Kone XTD, FinalMouse 2015(maybe?) and then there's Zowie ZA series. Depending if you like full palm grip style or so that part of your palm is dragging on the mousepad.


----------



## Twiffle

-Remove this post if you can please-


----------



## denart5

I really like a stable polling rate, very low input lag and stuff like that for any game but even more important are the ergonomics.

*1. What's your grip style?*

Palm, currently using claw (deathadder) but I want to switch for reasons explained farther below.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

1800 DPI, sometimes slightly lower in FPS

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

300 euro

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

I like the 2 buttons for my thumb

*5. What games do you play?
*
MOBA, FPS, RPG, ... pretty much anything

*6. Do you mind about prediction?
*
I don't care I think.

*7. Other relevant information:
*
I am looking for a more comfortable mouse to prevent RSI and my fingers aching (especially ring finger and pinky). I spend a lot of time gaming so...

I really don't give a **** about fancy lighting, more than 2 extra buttons, having a 9001 DPI range and all of that stuff that doesn't really matter.

Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *denart5*
> 
> I really like a stable polling rate, very low input lag and stuff like that for any game but even more important are the ergonomics.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> Palm, currently using claw (deathadder) but I want to switch for reasons explained farther below.
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1800 DPI, sometimes slightly lower in FPS
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> 300 euro
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> I like the 2 buttons for my thumb
> 
> *5. What games do you play?
> *
> MOBA, FPS, RPG, ... pretty much anything
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *
> I don't care I think.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:
> *
> I am looking for a more comfortable mouse to prevent RSI and my fingers aching (especially ring finger and pinky). I spend a lot of time gaming so...
> 
> I really don't give a **** about fancy lighting, more than 2 extra buttons, having a 9001 DPI range and all of that stuff that doesn't really matter.
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks!


If you like palming your mouse, then most likely I could suggest ZA11/ZA12 or Mionix Naos, Roccat Kone Pure Military or Kone Pure XTD . However if you have small hands or you just like claw gripping a mouse, then most likely CM Storm Spawn / Zowie FK1/FK2 maybe even Zowie EC2-A .


----------



## denart5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> If you like palming your mouse, then most likely I could suggest ZA11/ZA12 or Mionix Naos, Roccat Kone Pure Military or Kone Pure XTD . However if you have small hands or you just like claw gripping a mouse, then most likely CM Storm Spawn / Zowie FK1/FK2 maybe even Zowie EC2-A .


Hmm the Mionix Naos looks really good with the 5 finger support, thanks


----------



## Giovanni

been a while since i looked for mice, do we have 0 hardware/software acceleration mouse yet? 0 prediction angle snapping? i know that the g400/400s had prediction off but it still has acceleration but it has a big lod.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Giovanni*
> 
> been a while since i looked for mice, do we have 0 hardware/software acceleration mouse yet? 0 prediction angle snapping? i know that the g400/400s had prediction off but it still has acceleration but it has a big lod.


They dont have acceleration. The G400S has smoothing tho.


----------



## spodz

What's your grip style?
Comfortable with any grip prefer fingertip or palm
What's your sensitivity?
400DPI 2.2 in game
What's your maximum budget?
$100
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons
What games do you play?
CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction?
Would rather have no prediction
Other relevant information:
I would like the mouse to be either driverless or have onboard memory so I can configure it and uninstall the drivers. The mouse should also be non glossy and have adjustable lod or low lod as well as having no accel, angle snapping, prediction etc


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Comfortable with any grip prefer fingertip or palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI 2.2 in game
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Would rather have no prediction
> Other relevant information:
> I would like the mouse to be either driverless or have onboard memory so I can configure it and uninstall the drivers. The mouse should also be non glossy and have adjustable lod or low lod as well as having no accel, angle snapping, prediction etc


FK/ZA/EC would be a good fit, just decide between ambi vs. ergo, and size.


----------



## M3nta1

Hello everyone. Slowly getting tired of the lightness of my CM Storm Xornet, looking to go for another claw grip mouse but heavier and a touch more solid. Had a Corsair M65 for a while and always had it sideways, but aside from that it was a lovely mouse. Still tempted to get another one to match my keyboard but I'm interested in other mice first

What's your grip style? Claw (i think, fingertips on buttons and sides then palm barely touches the rear of the mouse)

What's your sensitivity? ~2000, but open to changing up or down.

What's your maximum budget? $250 (just to include wireless mice, preferably less)

Do you want additional buttons? back and forward buttons are a MUST

What games do you play? CS:GO, GTA V, GMOD, etc

Do you mind about prediction? Minor is fine, as long as i still feel in control of the mouse

Other relevant information: Solid feel and roughly the same weight as the Corsair M65, don't mind heavier. Braided cord would be nice to have, if wireless must be really worth it and easy to charge
I am interested to see what mice you guys recommend, thanks for lookin


----------



## Alex of the West

I am looking for a comfortable, accurate, *small hand mouse* for gaming and everything else. I just received a zowie fk 1 to replace my dead logitech g600, the zowie fk1 is too big and I cannot reach the further side button on the zowie fk 1 because it is too far. My hand is roughly 17.5 cm from the end of my middle finger to beginning of hand. (on a side note I enjoyed the g600 while it lasted although I could never reach the top row of side buttons on it either).

*What's your grip style?* palm / claw depending on the mouse. I will adapt to whatever is most comfortable on that mouse. I favor a mostly palm grip though.
*What's your sensitivity?* 2800
*What's your maximum budget?* 85
*Do you want additional buttons?* Absolutely must have minimum of 2 *reachable* side buttons.
*What games do you play?* mount and blade warband ( its a pretty twitchy fps type game, and a bunch of others.
*Do you mind about prediction?* unfamiliar with this term
*Other relevant information:* I would like to avoid omron switches if at all possible as they were the cause of death of my logitech g500 and g600, and repairing the springs in them is a nightmare I am not willing to delve into again. however, if they are easy to unsolder on a mouse I will consider that). I really dislike braided cords because after long term use they start to strongly prefer a certain direction but its not a deal breaker. I *never* pick up the mouse to move it.

I wanted to try zowie fk2 but I couldn't find it in stock. I wonder which I would like better between the ec2a and the fk2


----------



## Alex of the West

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Comfortable with any grip prefer fingertip or palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI 2.2 in game
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Would rather have no prediction
> Other relevant information:
> I would like the mouse to be either driverless or have onboard memory so I can configure it and uninstall the drivers. The mouse should also be non glossy and have adjustable lod or low lod as well as having no accel, angle snapping, prediction etc


I'd say depending on your hand size probably fk1 as that fits a lot of people. If your hands are big, a lot of people love the deathadder.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Comfortable with any grip prefer fingertip or palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI 2.2 in game
> What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side buttons
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Would rather have no prediction
> Other relevant information:
> I would like the mouse to be either driverless or have onboard memory so I can configure it and uninstall the drivers. The mouse should also be non glossy and have adjustable lod or low lod as well as having no accel, angle snapping, prediction etc


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## spodz

So it would be best to go for a IE 3.0 seeing as I use 400dpi, however finding a source to buy one of these in Australia is hard. Any suggestions?


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> So it would be best to go for a IE 3.0 seeing as I use 400dpi, however finding a source to buy one of these in Australia is hard. Any suggestions?


It is not worth the hassle. You will be paying a lot of money for either ~6+ year old (possibly refurbished) mouse that was originally released ~2001. Then you will probably be stuck on 125hz unless you're willing to revert to windows 7 or lower. And being stuck on 400 dpi is going to be a pain in the ass for desktop use, unless you are using a second mouse or something. But hey, maybe you're running 4:3 on a CRT (which is basically what using an IE 3.0 is like).

There are plenty of mice with "flawless" sensors that provide excellent performance without making you jump through all these hoops, and frankly out-weigh any kind of negligible benefit you might get from the MLT (like usable side-buttons!).


----------



## el-jorge

What's your grip style? Hybrid Claw/ Palm
What's your sensitivity? 1200 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $ 150
Do you want additional buttons? yes, around 8 is fine
What games do you play? RTS/ RPG
Do you mind about prediction? not really
Other relevant information: I've got a MadCatz MMO 7 love the shape especially how wide it is, I hate the sensor. I've tried:

Logitech G700 to high (big)
Logitecg G502 to narrow
Steelseries Rival to high (big)
Corsair Sabre to small (length)
Roccat Kone XTD Optical, slippery didn't feel right in my hand, to narrow
Razer Deathadder to high (big)

I also own a Logitech G500, which is great, but I use that for another Rig.

I think I've got only one option left, the Madcatz RAT TE (they say it has a better sensor than previous models)? Or maybe you guys have some good options?


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> It is not worth the hassle. You will be paying a lot of money for either ~6+ year old (possibly refurbished) mouse that was originally released ~2001. Then you will probably be stuck on 125hz unless you're willing to revert to windows 7 or lower. And being stuck on 400 dpi is going to be a pain in the ass for desktop use, unless you are using a second mouse or something. But hey, maybe you're running 4:3 on a CRT (which is basically what using an IE 3.0 is like).
> 
> There are plenty of mice with "flawless" sensors that provide excellent performance without making you jump through all these hoops, and frankly out-weigh any kind of negligible benefit you might get from the MLT (like usable side-buttons!).


Already using 400DPI in game and on desktop as well as using win7 so I wont need to change much not to mention the Sony F520 I'm using (4:3 CRT), as for mice with flawless sensors which do you recommend? Ive already got a G402 and a DA Chroma but looking for something else


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> Already using 400DPI in game and on desktop as well as using win7 so I wont need to change much not to mention the Sony F520 I'm using (4:3 CRT), as for mice with flawless sensors which do you recommend? Ive already got a G402 and a DA Chroma but looking for something else


If you like fingertip then you should try Logitech G303 it has same sensor as G502 which is really great. The only question is .. do you like the shape of it.

If you like palming a mouse depending on your palm grip... Zowie EC1/EC2-A if you hold a mouse so part of your palm is dragging on mouse pad. EC series has similar shape to DeathAdder. Then if you like fully palming a mouse I'd recommend Zowie ZA series. Both products are driverless, has adjustable LoD and Sensor is 3310 .


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> If you like fingertip then you should try Logitech G303 it has same sensor as G502 which is really great. The only question is .. do you like the shape of it.
> 
> If you like palming a mouse depending on your palm grip... Zowie EC1/EC2-A if you hold a mouse so part of your palm is dragging on mouse pad. EC series has similar shape to DeathAdder. Then if you like fully palming a mouse I'd recommend Zowie ZA series. Both products are driverless, has adjustable LoD and Sensor is 3310 .


Might go for the EC1-A seeing as I drag my palm on the mouse pad, are there any other mice in that region? I've heard good things about the finalmouse


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> Might go for the EC1-A seeing as I drag my palm on the mouse pad, are there any other mice in that region? I've heard good things about the finalmouse


Never had the FinalMouse, will test it out next month. I've heard good things about it as well. Most likely it is worth a try, unless you want to wait until next year for a new FinalMouse which is supposed to be ambidextrous, if I remember right.

EC1-A is fine as well, was just a bit too big for myself. Currently using EC2-A while waiting for Mionix Castor to arrive. EC1-A comes with extra mouse feet, which is pretty nice. I wish all companies would give you extra pair, like zowie does.


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Never had the FinalMouse, will test it out next month. I've heard good things about it as well. Most likely it is worth a try, unless you want to wait until next year for a new FinalMouse which is supposed to be ambidextrous, if I remember right.
> 
> EC1-A is fine as well, was just a bit too big for myself. Currently using EC2-A while waiting for Mionix Castor to arrive. EC1-A comes with extra mouse feet, which is pretty nice. I wish all companies would give you extra pair, like zowie does.


Looking at other threads the EC1-A is similar in size to the deathadder which makes me lean towards it more than the EC2, have you ever used custom mouse feet? Is the castor another mouse with a flawless sensor?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> Looking at other threads the EC1-A is similar in size to the deathadder which makes me lean towards it more than the EC2, have you ever used custom mouse feet? Is the castor another mouse with a flawless sensor?


Yeah Castor is also one of those with flawless sensor.

And yeah EC1-A is similar size to the deathadder, so if you liked Deathadder you'll most likely like EC1-A as well. EC2-A is a bit smaller.

As for custom mouse feet.. I have not used any. If I'd have to say best mouse feet that I have had on a mouse would be back when I had Mionix Naos. Mouse feet in that mouse was so good. Would love to try out hyperglide feet as I have heard that those are one of the best feet.

You have couple options to choose from then! Finalmouse, Mionix Castor and EC1-A all 3 of these should be great products. Castor is a bit smaller than Deathadder though. If I recall I think on Mionix Castor thread on this forum there's a comparison picture if I remember right that is.


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Yeah Castor is also one of those with flawless sensor.
> 
> And yeah EC1-A is similar size to the deathadder, so if you liked Deathadder you'll most likely like EC1-A as well. EC2-A is a bit smaller.
> 
> As for custom mouse feet.. I have not used any. If I'd have to say best mouse feet that I have had on a mouse would be back when I had Mionix Naos. Mouse feet in that mouse was so good. Would love to try out hyperglide feet as I have heard that those are one of the best feet.
> 
> You have couple options to choose from then! Finalmouse, Mionix Castor and EC1-A all 3 of these should be great products. Castor is a bit smaller than Deathadder though. If I recall I think on Mionix Castor thread on this forum there's a comparison picture if I remember right that is.


Deciding to go with the EC1-A, should be ordering it soon. I'm researching custom feet and taking them into consideration. Thanks


----------



## Alex of the West

el-jorge:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el-jorge*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid Claw/ Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 1200 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $ 150
> Do you want additional buttons? yes, around 8 is fine
> What games do you play? RTS/ RPG
> Do you mind about prediction? not really
> Other relevant information: I've got a MadCatz MMO 7 love the shape especially how wide it is, I hate the sensor. I've tried:
> 
> Logitech G700 to high (big)
> Logitecg G502 to narrow
> Steelseries Rival to high (big)
> Corsair Sabre to small (length)
> Roccat Kone XTD Optical, slippery didn't feel right in my hand, to narrow
> Razer Deathadder to high (big)
> 
> I also own a Logitech G500, which is great, but I use that for another Rig.
> 
> I think I've got only one option left, the Madcatz RAT TE (they say it has a better sensor than previous models)? Or maybe you guys have some good options?






G600 - only about 40$ on amazon right now. I noticed you mentioned the madcatz mmo7. I used the logitech g600 for a long time until the omron switches in it hit their limit. The sensor itself was pretty decent the whole time I used it. I am pretty certain its censor is superior to the madcatz. Though I cannot attest to what madcatz FEELS like in comparison, and of course feel is super important. I would suggest measuring your hand from end of middle finger to start of palm to give yourself a frame of refrence in terms of what size mouse you want. The g600 isnt super long but it is pretty damn wide. If you have really small hands you may have trouble reaching the top row of G side buttons as I did, but if you have really big hands you may struggle to reach its bottom row.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I agree it can be a hassle to deal with the MLT04 mice. If you read the pros and cons and don't feel like the cons are a big deal, then try aliexpress.com. They have new ones modded with special coatings for better grip.

The "flawless" sensor talk is total BS though. There's not a single mouse on the market with a flawless sensor. I would immediately completely discount anything someone says if they suggest flawless sensors are common/exist.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I agree it can be a hassle to deal with the MLT04 mice. If you read the pros and cons and don't feel like the cons are a big deal, then try aliexpress.com. They have new ones modded with special coatings for better grip.
> 
> The "flawless" sensor talk is total BS though. There's not a single mouse on the market with a flawless sensor. I would immediately completely discount anything someone says if they suggest flawless sensors are common/exist.


Which is why I used scare quotes because there is no such thing as a flawless sensor, it's just a catch-all phrase for what people generally think of (i.e. no accel/prediction/tracking issues etc.). I also agree with you that this whole business is a matter of weighing pros and cons and deciding what you're willing to sacrifice, and what you're willing to live with.


----------



## CairnisReed

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 1200-1800 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $200
Do you want additional buttons? I'd prefer two buttons near where my thumb sits (Similar to the deathadder or many zowie mice)
What games do you play? FPS (New mouse is primarily intended for use in countertstrike)
Do you mind about prediction? I'd like the rawest input available so I don't think I want prediction (I digress I know nothing about mice specs or features beyond the basics so this is an alien concept to me)
Other relevant information: The Razer mamba 2012 edition fits my hand nicely though I wouldn't complain if it was less wide. Its the only mouse I've ever used for gaming outside of a very old nameless logitech mouse so I've little experience with different mice. I suppose I'd like something light and wired, with little gloss and a nice high quality finish to it. The Zowie ZA series look nice to me, steelseries rival, as does the razer mamba tournament edition (However I think I read is has sensor issues or something?) To be honest I'm not quite sure what I'd like in a mouse, I'm happy with this mamba but would like something with more accurate sensors/better raw input/better build quality.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CairnisReed*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? 1200-1800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? $200
> Do you want additional buttons? I'd prefer two buttons near where my thumb sits (Similar to the deathadder or many zowie mice)
> What games do you play? FPS (New mouse is primarily intended for use in countertstrike)
> Do you mind about prediction? I'd like the rawest input available so I don't think I want prediction (I digress I know nothing about mice specs or features beyond the basics so this is an alien concept to me)
> Other relevant information: The Razer mamba 2012 edition fits my hand nicely though I wouldn't complain if it was less wide. Its the only mouse I've ever used for gaming outside of a very old nameless logitech mouse so I've little experience with different mice. I suppose I'd like something light and wired, with little gloss and a nice high quality finish to it. The Zowie ZA series look nice to me, steelseries rival, as does the razer mamba tournament edition (However I think I read is has sensor issues or something?) To be honest I'm not quite sure what I'd like in a mouse, I'm happy with this mamba but would like something with more accurate sensors/better raw input/better build quality.


Finalmouse 2015


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I agree it can be a hassle to deal with the MLT04 mice. If you read the pros and cons and don't feel like the cons are a big deal, then try aliexpress.com. They have new ones modded with special coatings for better grip.
> 
> The "flawless" sensor talk is total BS though. There's not a single mouse on the market with a flawless sensor. I would immediately completely discount anything someone says if they suggest flawless sensors are common/exist.


Are all MLT04 set to 400DPI factory? Some of the ones on Aliexpress are quoting 800DPI


----------



## CairnisReed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Finalmouse 2015


The finalmouse always looked so shady to me, and the pictures on their site make it look so tacky. Is it really the bee's knees?


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CairnisReed*
> 
> The finalmouse always looked so shady to me, and the pictures on their site make it look so tacky. Is it really the bee's knees?


Not to mention the so called pros pulling **** out their arse about it


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Atleast they listen to the community a little. Meanwhile Razer just does their own thing and make products for little 12 year olds playing CoD
✓decent enough 3310 implementation with no accel and high PCS
✓74g
✓decent cable from what I have heard
✓DA-like shape even if its OEM (People like the G100S and its the same shape as OEM office mice so thinking its bad just because its OEm is ridiculous)
✓3 year warranty
Avoid.


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Atleast they listen to the community a little. Meanwhile Razer just does their own thing and make products for little 12 year olds playing CoD
> ✓decent enough 3310 implementation with no accel and high PCS
> ✓74g
> ✓decent cable from what I have heard
> ✓DA-like shape even if its OEM (People like the G100S and its the same shape as OEM office mice so thinking its bad just because its OEm is ridiculous)
> ✓3 year warranty


The mouse is great! Just saying the website is a little sketchy


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spodz*
> 
> The mouse is great! Just saying the website is a little sketchy


yep
Quote:


> From the PCB & wiring to the moulding, every aspect of the FinalMouse is engineered with masterful precision to achieve Esports grade quality and reliability standards. Because of this the FinalMouse confidently comes with an industry leading 3 year limited warranty. FinalMouse is stress tested to over 10 million clicks and 600 nonstop hours of highspeed sensor tracking to ensure a mouse that is built to withstand any competitive environment. The meticulous craftsmanship and engineering is concluded with a 100% QC factory inspection on every unit.


lol


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, they say "less than" 800. Maybe that's just the only option on the site or something. They're all 400dpi only.

I'd get one of the rubber modded 1.1's if I had to: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/29-kinds-Rubber-Paint-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-MOD-IO1-1-optical-computer-Intellimouse-usb/32325903889.html

Regarding the FM, I did an in depth review here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

The FM would be my 2nd choice after the MLT04. The summer edition has some improvements. And if you get a bad one they have free returns for 3 years.


----------



## Dare92

Mouse #1

What's your grip style? Half way between Palm & Claw
What's your sensitivity? 3200 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $250
Do you want additional buttons? Sniper + 2 thumb buttons
What games do you play? BF & CoD
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction please
Other relevant information: Moving on from the G9x but I'm in need of a low & wide shape to fill my hand as I'm a lifter and like control with thumb, ring & pinkie.
Mouse #2

What's your grip style? Half way between Palm & Claw
What's your sensitivity? 1600 - 2400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $250
Do you want additional buttons? 14+ buttons
What games do you play? MMORPGs & MOBAs
Do you mind about prediction? Not fussed
Other relevant information: A wide relaxed palm grip like my current Naga is comfy.

Let me know what ideas you can come up with.

My favourite mouse is the G9/x shape wise both the aggressive and smooth grips. Before I had two mice I'd just switch between the grips depending on genre of the game I was playing.


----------



## spodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, they say "less than" 800. Maybe that's just the only option on the site or something. They're all 400dpi only.
> 
> I'd get one of the rubber modded 1.1's if I had to: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/29-kinds-Rubber-Paint-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-MOD-IO1-1-optical-computer-Intellimouse-usb/32325903889.html
> 
> Regarding the FM, I did an in depth review here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> 
> The FM would be my 2nd choice after the MLT04. The summer edition has some improvements. And if you get a bad one they have free returns for 3 years.


Thanks, nice youtube playlist good reviews. Is CS 1.6 still active in the competitive scene(pugs,scrims etc)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Na, it's been dead for years.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Hey guys, so I own the Anker 8200 DPI mouse (no don't flame about the DPI, it's just the name!)

it has the Avago ADNS-9800 sensor, which is similar to what you'll find in the SteelSeries Sensei.

I play CSGO competitively almost on a daily basis. I was therefore wondering if there' s a better sensor out there for my needs of FPS gaming (if so why), but one that also has 3 buttons on the left-hand side (I not only use this for media on my PC, but also for gaming shortcuts on CSGO).

Help/suggestions are appreciated


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Hey guys, so I own the Anker 8200 DPI mouse (no don't flame about the DPI, it's just the name!)
> 
> it has the Avago ADNS-9800 sensor, which is similar to what you'll find in the SteelSeries Sensei.
> 
> I play CSGO competitively almost on a daily basis. I was therefore wondering if there' s a better sensor out there for my needs of FPS gaming (if so why), but one that also has 3 buttons on the left-hand side (I not only use this for media on my PC, but also for gaming shortcuts on CSGO).
> 
> Help/suggestions are appreciated


Since you are playing competitively, you should know the that laser sensors are inconsistent, so you will most likely improve your aim by switching to a "flawless" sensor like 3988, 3310 or 3366, giving the muscle memory something to work with.
You should pick a mouse from this list
Also, the 3rd button on the left hand side is very uncommon, so you might need to settle with 2 buttons and map the 3rd one to the keyboard..


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Since you are playing competitively, you should know the that laser sensors are inconsistent, so you will most likely improve your aim by switching to a "flawless" sensor like 3988, 3310 or 3366, giving the muscle memory something to work with.
> You should pick a mouse from this list
> Also, the 3rd button on the left hand side is very uncommon, so you might need to settle with 2 buttons and map the 3rd one to the keyboard..


That's a great list of players, but I don't really agree with just taking the setup of a pro - for example their resolution and aspect ratio is something I've yet to understand.
I know it creates a smaller distance to view from left to right, but I think it's just odd. I personally play at 1440p - on a 27" screen and it's fantastic, better than I've ever played before - ie vs 1080p and/or lower aspect ratio/scale.

If I could have a list of mice that would be more useful to me.
Also these pros often use a setup that's sponsored - ie would use BenQ or SteelSeries, because they're paid to do so.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> That's a great list of players, but I don't really agree with just taking the setup of a pro - for example their resolution and aspect ratio is something I've yet to understand.
> I know it creates a smaller distance to view from left to right, but I think it's just odd. I personally play at 1440p - on a 27" screen and it's fantastic, better than I've ever played before - ie vs 1080p and/or lower aspect ratio/scale.
> 
> If I could have a list of mice that would be more useful to me.
> Also these pros often use a setup that's sponsored - ie would use BenQ or SteelSeries, because they're paid to do so.


I agree with you there. Well there is many choices, prolly not that many with 3 side buttons. The only fps gaming mouse I know with 3 side buttons would be G502, Asus Strix Claw. Although on G502 the 3rd button would be a sniper button. If you don't like G502 due to it's heaviness there's an alternative G402 for it. Would have to know what kind of grip you prefer, and your hand size would help a lot as well when choosing a mouse.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I agree with you there. Well there is many choices, prolly not that many with 3 side buttons. The only fps gaming mouse I know with 3 side buttons would be G502, Asus Strix Claw. Although on G502 the 3rd button would be a sniper button. If you don't like G502 due to it's heaviness there's an alternative G402 for it. Would have to know what kind of grip you prefer, and your hand size would help a lot as well when choosing a mouse.


From the top of my middle finger to the palm it's around 18-21cm.
I do prefer one that has a slightly larger profile, than those that are completely flat (ie I dislike the ergonomics of the sensei, but love the one from the razer deathadder) - hopefully that gives a better indication?

Thanks!


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> From the top of my middle finger to the palm it's around 18-21cm.
> I do prefer one that has a slightly larger profile, than those that are completely flat (ie I dislike the ergonomics of the sensei, but love the one from the razer deathadder) - hopefully that gives a better indication?
> 
> Thanks!


Razer Deathadder, Zowie EC1-A, Asus Strix Claw, Zowie ZA series, SteelSeries Rival and Roccat Kone XTD those are ones with pretty large profile. Then there's of course Func Ms3 .


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> That's a great list of players, but I don't really agree with just taking the setup of a pro - for example their resolution and aspect ratio is something I've yet to understand.
> I know it creates a smaller distance to view from left to right, but I think it's just odd. I personally play at 1440p - on a 27" screen and it's fantastic, better than I've ever played before - ie vs 1080p and/or lower aspect ratio/scale.
> 
> If I could have a list of mice that would be more useful to me.
> Also these pros often use a setup that's sponsored - ie would use BenQ or SteelSeries, because they're paid to do so.


There is a list of mice, but you should scroll right a bit..
My personal preference will be Razer Deathadder Chroma/2013 or Logitech g303/g502.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Razer Deathadder, Zowie EC1-A, Asus Strix Claw, Zowie ZA series, SteelSeries Rival and Roccat Kone XTD those are ones with pretty large profile. Then there's of course Func Ms3 .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> There is a list of mice, but you should scroll right a bit..
> My personal preference will be Razer Deathadder Chroma/2013 or Logitech g303/g502.


thank you both, I'll look into them. And those mice are better, simply due to their sensors I presume?
If so, in what way will I feel the difference? So is it better tracking, better response etc







!
I know you mentioned inconsistency, but in what way? As I've but noticed anything so far with my mouse, maybe I'm not looking in the right places when testing? Let me know so I can analyse my mouse too


----------



## darkfirebg

Well, there is quite a lot of information regarding optical vs laser mice in this forum and throughout the internet. Basically when you play competitive shooter like CS, sometimes you act before you think, for instance you are watching certain angle and an opponent shows from another, you need to react fast in order to put the crosshair on his head/body. That's when the muscle memory kicks in and if you are used to your sensitivity, mouse, resolution and you have the necessary dexterity you will be able to do this instantly and without thinking about it. Now newest optical sensors have very little deviation from the presumed best 1:1 tracking, where the laser sensors always have a little acceleration amount which makes your pointer move faster the faster you move your mouse. In the best case scenario you will use a sensor which tracks exactly your movements. There are currently few sensors offering near perfect tracking - 3366, 3988 and 3310(3090 also). I cannot say any of these is perfect(as offering exact precision) but they are close enough.
Angle snapping is another thing you should be aware of, it simply makes you draw straight lines even though it's humanly impossible to make a straight line with a mouse.. therefore "fixing" your movements, which is really bad when you are trying to hit someone in the head.. So you need this to be off.


----------



## Natskyge

1. What's your grip style? palm and my hand is 10 Cm wide and 18,5 long.

2. What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? unlimited but i wont throw money away

4. Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons

5. What games do you play? BF4, Insurgency, CSGO and various other games but primarly FPS

6. Do you mind about prediction? No prediction

7. Other relevant information: low LOD, light weight, 1:1 tracking and a more "active grip".


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? palm and my hand is 10 Cm wide and 18,5 long.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget? unlimited but i wont throw money away
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons
> 
> 5. What games do you play? BF4, Insurgency, CSGO and various other games but primarly FPS
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information: low LOD, light weight and 1:1 tracking


FinalMouse 2015, Zowie ZA series and Zowie EC1-A . Those are pretty much light weight palm mice with 3310 sensor and low lift-off.


----------



## Dare92

LoL I guess nobody took me seriously. Oh well. I'll figure it out. Apparently I'm a n00b doing it all wrong without an optical sensor.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dare92*
> 
> LoL I guess nobody took me seriously. Oh well. I'll figure it out. Apparently I'm a n00b doing it all wrong without an optical sensor.


I loved the G9X. Maybe look out for the Xornet 2, I felt that the shape of the Spawn/Xornet was pretty similar to the wide grip G9X. Otherwise you might try ambi mice like the Sensei/FK, they lend themselves well to thumb/ring/pinky pinching (clawish grip). Sensei uses the same sensor so you'd feel at home.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Well, there is quite a lot of information regarding optical vs laser mice in this forum and throughout the internet. Basically when you play competitive shooter like CS, sometimes you act before you think, for instance you are watching certain angle and an opponent shows from another, you need to react fast in order to put the crosshair on his head/body. That's when the muscle memory kicks in and if you are used to your sensitivity, mouse, resolution and you have the necessary dexterity you will be able to do this instantly and without thinking about it. Now newest optical sensors have very little deviation from the presumed best 1:1 tracking, where the laser sensors always have a little acceleration amount which makes your pointer move faster the faster you move your mouse. In the best case scenario you will use a sensor which tracks exactly your movements. There are currently few sensors offering near perfect tracking - 3366, 3988 and 3310(3090 also). I cannot say any of these is perfect(as offering exact precision) but they are close enough.
> Angle snapping is another thing you should be aware of, it simply makes you draw straight lines even though it's humanly impossible to make a straight line with a mouse.. therefore "fixing" your movements, which is really bad when you are trying to hit someone in the head.. So you need this to be off.


thanks for the info again! +repperino to all that helped!

BTW - out of all the mice shared - the G502 looks absolutely perfect for me.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

1. What's your grip style? Claw grip 18.5cm long 8cm wide (I have narrow hands







)

2. What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget? Unlimited Budget Works

4. Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons would be nice but I dont use them for games so I dont care too much

5. What games do you play? CS:GO, osu

6. Do you mind about prediction? No prediction

7. Other relevant information: Low LOD but not too low like G303, needs to be 80g preferably less (if a mouse can be modded to weigh less please recommend it), sensor must have minimal if not no smoothing, sensor must be centred, main buttons must be durable to endure my osu mouse only playstyle, and it needs to have minimal click latency (within 3-4ms of Logitech's latency), do not reccommend G100S, G302, or G303 as I already own them and don't really like them... also must have PCS>4m/s because I play at a relatively low sensitivity.)


----------



## Dare92

I picked up a g502 today and happened to try one in store after I bought it. It's still in its box unopened so I can return it. Anyways I tried it out and its a very narrow mouse which I can deal with but the thing that got me was the fact that there was nowhere for my pinky. I cannot stand dragging my pinky along my mouse pad or mat, I need a rest or clench grip like an ambi mouse. It really sucks cause it's a kick ass mouse when all said and done.

I've had a look at the new mad catz pro x that just released and comes fully modular with the ability to get one of the 1:1 led sensors. It has everything I need in a mouse with all the parts being replaceable on the mad catz web store. $300 aud / €200 euro so it's quite expensive.

Back to the drawing board I guess. I think I'm going to have to try before I buy my naga replacement as the new naga doesn't have a pinkie rest like the old epic and the scimitar has a flat side. Dag nam it mice are as bad as buying a pair of shoes.

I'm not a huge fan of the CM mice sadly, I wish the razer ouroboros or taipan had an led sensor.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dare92*
> 
> I picked up a g502 today and happened to try one in store after I bought it. It's still in its box unopened so I can return it. Anyways I tried it out and its a very narrow mouse which I can deal with but the thing that got me was the fact that there was nowhere for my pinky. I cannot stand dragging my pinky along my mouse pad or mat, I need a rest or clench grip like an ambi mouse. It really sucks cause it's a kick ass mouse when all said and done.
> 
> I've had a look at the new mad catz pro x that just released and comes fully modular with the ability to get one of the 1:1 led sensors. It has everything I need in a mouse with all the parts being replaceable on the mad catz web store. $300 aud / €200 euro so it's quite expensive.
> 
> Back to the drawing board I guess. I think I'm going to have to try before I buy my naga replacement as the new naga doesn't have a pinkie rest like the old epic and the scimitar has a flat side. Dag nam it mice are as bad as buying a pair of shoes.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of the CM mice sadly, I wish the razer ouroboros or taipan had an led sensor.


If you want a mouse with pinky support then you should look at Func MS3 and Mionix Naos 7000


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> I loved the G9X. Maybe look out for the Xornet 2, I felt that the shape of the Spawn/Xornet was pretty similar to the wide grip G9X.


I had them both BUT the G9x was slightly larger in size, compared to the humble Xornet.


----------



## tatmMRKIV

What's your grip style?fingertip/palm small hands
What's your sensitivity?5600-8200+?
What's your maximum budget?60-100
Do you want additional buttons?sensitivity and < >
What games do you play? FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

wired
must be compatible with artisan shiden kai mousepad

I like my rival but I want something newer had a logitech g9 before and I loved the scroll wheel..
rival is from launch and the grip is pretty worn


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tatmMRKIV*
> 
> What's your grip style?fingertip/palm small hands
> What's your sensitivity?5600-8200+?
> What's your maximum budget?60-100
> Do you want additional buttons?sensitivity and < >
> What games do you play? FPS
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> wired
> must be compatible with artisan shiden kai mousepad
> 
> I like my rival but I want something newer had a logitech g9 before and I loved the scroll wheel..
> rival is from launch and the grip is pretty worn


Steelseries Sensei Wireless.


----------



## Dare92

So I returned the g503 I never opened and ended up having a look at some of the mice in the store.

Logitech g503 - No ring/pinkie support and very narrow (great button layout besides L/R click width)
SteelSeries Kana - Slim and what you come to expect from steelseries.
Corsair M65 - Great height and reasonable button placement but ultimately lacking width.
Asus Gladius - Not a bad fit but felt cheap.
CoolerMaster Reaper - Wow! What a mouse. Perfect button layout, shape that fills your hand & the buttons are lovely and beefy. The only thing this mouse doesn't have is adjustable weights & LED sensor.

I ended up taking the gamble and swapped it for the Razer Naga which I had tried at a friends house but it really fills your hand and has a better layout than the older epic. Side by side you can really tell how much different the epic from new naga is and wider the new version is.

I'm still going to take the biggest gamble of the lot and get a Corsair Scimitar but the adjustable thumb buttons & how close the M65 is to fitting my hand perfectly, I think it's worth it. I just have to wait for them to come in stock.

So pretty much now I just need to get the corsair scimitar, mad catz pro x & that unicorn fps mouse.

Why do you need 4 mice I'm sure you're womdering? I have 2 alternate computer setups and I always have a seperate mmo/moba & fps mouse.

At least im getting closer with the CM Reaper, I'm sure there is something similar that optical :S


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G503


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G503


http://g503.com/
its a jeep, tho you could tape a bad laser sensor, rgb lights 16.8 million ( and by that we mean 50 ) color backlight and write EXTREME GAMING on it and use it as a l33t h4x0r mouse by PR departments, for uneducated gamers.

atleast it wont go rogue on you like razor


----------



## Dare92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> http://g503.com/
> its a jeep, tho you could tape a bad laser sensor, rgb lights 16.8 million ( and by that we mean 50 ) color backlight and write EXTREME GAMING on it and use it as a l33t h4x0r mouse by PR departments, for uneducated gamers.
> 
> atleast it wont go rogue on you like razor


g502* LoL *face-pam*


----------



## dismas

Hi, I'm looking for a new mouse. I really like the size of the Razer Salmosa, so next mouse should be pretty small + light.

Must have:
Flawless sensor (like the ones in this list) e.g., no acceleration/prediction
2 side buttons

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 1800 DPI
What's your maximum budget? ~$70
Do you want additional buttons? Must have 2 side buttons
What games do you play? SC2
Do you mind about prediction? Must have no acceleration/prediction


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dismas*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking for a new mouse. I really like the size of the Razer Salmosa, so next mouse should be pretty small + light.
> 
> Must have:
> Flawless sensor (like the ones in this list) e.g., no acceleration/prediction
> 2 side buttons
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 1800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? ~$70
> Do you want additional buttons? Must have 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? SC2
> Do you mind about prediction? Must have no acceleration/prediction


Logitech G302/G303, Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Military, Zowie FK1/2, Zowie ZA11/12/13, SS Rival 100, Ninox Aurora


----------



## Natskyge

What mouse would have the best sensor? ( perfect 1:1 tracking )


----------



## BeeQAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Logitech G302/G303, Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Military, Zowie FK1/2, Zowie ZA11/12/13, SS Rival 100, Ninox Aurora


Of those I have the G303, Roccat KPM, Zowie FK2 and ZA13. For you, I would recommend the Zowie ZA series. I'd recommend the G303 but it seems that the consensus is the shape is terrible which I have to agree with even though I have gotten used to it for the sake of the amazing 3366

Good luck bro:thumb:


----------



## BeeQAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> What mouse would have the best sensor? ( perfect 1:1 tracking )


Right now, I would say the G303 and G502 (3366 is objectively the best sensor released yet and actual usage and testing seems to back this up). If you don't mind older mice then any of the Microsoft with the MLT04 sensor, the Deathadder 3G (which you can't find anywhere), Deathadder 3.5G standard and Black edition (although some people have some minor issues with it's tracking characteristics - it artificially feels too responsive) and many of the 3310 mice e.g. Zowie FK1/2 and ZA11/12/13.

Most of the mice I mentioned have as close to perfect 1:1 tracking as you'll hope to get so it boils down to other factors which are often overlooked in favor of the sensor and it's performance.


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Logitech G302/G303, Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Military, Zowie FK1/2, Zowie ZA11/12/13, SS Rival 100, Ninox Aurora


Would only recommend G303 and G302 of those options.. Zowie FK's and ZA's clicks are way too stiff to be spammed constantly in games like sc2.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeeQAL*
> 
> Right now, I would say the G303 and G502 (3366 is objectively the best sensor released yet and actual usage and testing seems to back this up). If you don't mind older mice then any of the Microsoft with the MLT04 sensor, the Deathadder 3G (which you can't find anywhere), Deathadder 3.5G standard and Black edition (although some people have some minor issues with it's tracking characteristics - it artificially feels too responsive) and many of the 3310 mice e.g. Zowie FK1/2 and ZA11/12/13.
> 
> Most of the mice I mentioned have as close to perfect 1:1 tracking as you'll hope to get so it boils down to other factors which are often overlooked in favor of the sensor and it's performance.


Thanks.

Does anyone know if or when the PMW3366 will be avaliable like 3310 is today?

I would love me some 3366 EC1-A...


----------



## Matroid

I love gaming mice with light Middle-click(need same pressure to R/L click) likes Roccat Savu. I tried a lot of brand and found Rival's neary similiar but side grip problem = meh

don't know why gaming mice need too much pressure for scroll-click. it made my index hurt









can anyone suggest?









ps. sorry for my bad English


----------



## semencmoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Matroid*
> 
> I love gaming mice with light Middle-click(need same pressure to R/L click) likes Roccat Savu. I tried a lot of brand and found Rival's neary similiar but side grip problem = meh
> 
> don't know why gaming mice need too much pressure for scroll-click. it made my index hurt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can anyone suggest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps. sorry for my bad English


only the earliest series of rival have sidegrip problem. i've bought mine at february and my side grips aren't even scratched.


----------



## Wooph

I've been using the Steelseries Ikari Optical for the last 5 years and recently it stopped working. I've been trying out other mice in search of a replacement but haven't had much success. If the Ikari Optical was still available for purchase I would have just bought another one.

I'll list out the mice I've tried so far and give my thoughts on them. Hopefully it will give you an idea of my preferences and make it easier to provide suggestions.

MX518: Felt rather heavy coming back from the Ikari Optical when I first switched. Side Buttons require too much grip shift to access.

Steelseries Ikari Optical: Pretty close to perfect for me. Very comfortable to grip. Light weight. Light clicks on all 5 buttons. Side button position is close to ideal but could be placed just a bit more forward.

Razer Naga Hex: Was curious about this 6 side button mouse. Trash sensor. Too Heavy. Middle Click is too stiff.

Razer Deathadder 2013: Uncomfortable. Side buttons felt a bit mushy. Middle Click too stiff.

Steelseries Rival: Closest to being the replacement so far. Fairly comfortable to grip. Feels a bit too tall and "fills" my hand a bit too much. A bit heavy for my tastes. Clicks are also a bit stiff on all buttons. Horrible Cable. Side Buttons are in an ideal position, with the tip of my thumb resting right between the two buttons.

Zowie ZA12: Uncomfortable. Back of the mouse pushes right up against the base of my middle finger. Clicks feel a bit stiff. Side buttons are just a little too far back.

To sum it up:

- No laser
- Side Buttons are required
- Light Clicks and Light Weight are good
- Right Handed/Ergonomic Shape Mice probably required
- No "Thumb Indentations". They require too much of a grip shift to access the side buttons. (Example: MX518, FinalMouse)

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wooph*
> 
> I've been using the Steelseries Ikari Optical for the last 5 years and recently it stopped working. I've been trying out other mice in search of a replacement but haven't had much success. If the Ikari Optical was still available for purchase I would have just bought another one.
> 
> I'll list out the mice I've tried so far and give my thoughts on them. Hopefully it will give you an idea of my preferences and make it easier to provide suggestions.
> 
> MX518: Felt rather heavy coming back from the Ikari Optical when I first switched. Side Buttons require too much grip shift to access.
> 
> Steelseries Ikari Optical: Pretty close to perfect for me. Very comfortable to grip. Light weight. Light clicks on all 5 buttons. Side button position is close to ideal but could be placed just a bit more forward.
> 
> Razer Naga Hex: Was curious about this 6 side button mouse. Trash sensor. Too Heavy. Middle Click is too stiff.
> 
> Razer Deathadder 2013: Uncomfortable. Side buttons felt a bit mushy. Middle Click too stiff.
> 
> Steelseries Rival: Closest to being the replacement so far. Fairly comfortable to grip. Feels a bit too tall and "fills" my hand a bit too much. A bit heavy for my tastes. Clicks are also a bit stiff on all buttons. Horrible Cable. Side Buttons are in an ideal position, with the tip of my thumb resting right between the two buttons.
> 
> Zowie ZA12: Uncomfortable. Back of the mouse pushes right up against the base of my middle finger. Clicks feel a bit stiff. Side buttons are just a little too far back.
> 
> To sum it up:
> 
> - No laser
> - Side Buttons are required
> - Light Clicks and Light Weight are good
> - Right Handed/Ergonomic Shape Mice probably required
> - No "Thumb Indentations". They require too much of a grip shift to access the side buttons. (Example: MX518, FinalMouse)
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


mionix naos 7000 ?


----------



## hza

You also may look into Roccat KPM. Even though it has a "Thumb Indentation" (as you call it) it might suit you well otherwise. Go to a local store and try out more mice, if you have the possibility.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You also may look into Roccat KPM. Even though it has a "Thumb Indentation" (as you call it) it might suit you well otherwise. Go to a local store and try out more mice, if you have the possibility.


You could probably fill up the thumb groove with Sugru


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Was looking to get a G502 - thought to ping Logitech an email - as I'm a reviewer - very honoured and lucky to have received the G303.
Been playing with it for the last hour with its settings and in CSGO - really impressed so far. Not quite ergonomically my size (where the G502 might fit better), but I'm testing its sensor









For the fist time ever I can safely remove "enhance pointer precision" in Windows


----------



## Melan

You can safely disable EPP with any other mouse. It doesn't "enhance" anything what so ever.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You can safely disable EPP with any other mouse. It doesn't "enhance" anything what so ever.


well I've found previously it really helping the mice I used


----------



## b3gGladius

How is Mionix Naos 7000 for fps ? and i have 21cm hand, is Logitech g303 good for me ? Big and which is good Naos 7000 or g303 ? I'm using mouse with palm grip.


----------



## Wooph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kicksome*
> 
> mionix naos 7000 ?


This looks promising. I'll get back with impressions when I have it.


----------



## b3gGladius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wooph*
> 
> This looks promising. I'll get back with impressions when I have it.


i'm waiting for your impressions.


----------



## dgmul

Longtime DeathAdder 3.5G user here, and recently spent some time with the Logitech G303. I'm in love with the DeathAdder's ergonomic, palmable shape, but I want the sexy, low-latency clicks of the 303. Also the skates on my DeathAdder have way too much friction, but I'm assuming that's just wear and tear over the years.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a DeathAdder Chroma. Will I be happy with it? Are the clicks any better than on the 3.5G? Are the skates fine? Is there another mouse I should consider?

Here's my comparison of the G303 to the DA 3.5G, if you want to know what I'm looking for in a mouse.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Longtime DeathAdder 3.5G user here, and recently spent some time with the Logitech G303. I'm in love with the DeathAdder's ergonomic, palmable shape, but I want the sexy, low-latency clicks of the 303. Also the skates on my DeathAdder have way too much friction, but I'm assuming that's just wear and tear over the years.
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on a DeathAdder Chroma. Will I be happy with it? Are the clicks any better than on the 3.5G? Are the skates fine? Is there another mouse I should consider?
> 
> Here's my comparison of the G303 to the DA 3.5G, if you want to know what I'm looking for in a mouse.


Well technically a Deathadder 3G with 1.28NDC would equal the G303's delay, but only that firmware though


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Longtime DeathAdder 3.5G user here, and recently spent some time with the Logitech G303. I'm in love with the DeathAdder's ergonomic, palmable shape, but I want the sexy, low-latency clicks of the 303. Also the skates on my DeathAdder have way too much friction, but I'm assuming that's just wear and tear over the years.
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on a DeathAdder Chroma. Will I be happy with it? Are the clicks any better than on the 3.5G? Are the skates fine? Is there another mouse I should consider?
> 
> Here's my comparison of the G303 to the DA 3.5G, if you want to know what I'm looking for in a mouse.


not sure how much of a help this is - but if the shape isn't right and I can see where you're coming from, as the deathadder has a nice form - why not the G502?


----------



## Aph-

I would like a mouse that has the best sensor and click latency, doesnt have too many buttons and is small and light if possible


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aph-*
> 
> I would like a mouse that has the best sensor and click latency, doesnt have too many buttons and is small and light if possible


Logitech G303?
I don't have much experience in Mice though, but just throwing it in there


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well technically a Deathadder 3G with 1.28NDC would equal the G303's delay, but only that firmware though


I think the click latency on the DA is mostly due to pre-travel on the physical buttons themselves, not anything to do with firmware.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> not sure how much of a help this is - but if the shape isn't right and I can see where you're coming from, as the deathadder has a nice form - why not the G502?


Thanks for the suggestion. I looked into the G502, but I'm turned off because A) it's heavy as a brick and one of my complaints about the DA is its weight, and B) Logitech left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I just ordered a Mionix NAOS 7000 and a SteelSeries Rival. I'll check them both out, keep one, and RMA the other.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> I think the click latency on the DA is mostly due to pre-travel on the physical buttons themselves, not anything to do with firmware.
> Thanks for the suggestion. I looked into the G502, but I'm turned off because A) it's heavy as a brick and one of my complaints about the DA is its weight, and B) Logitech left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
> 
> I just ordered a Mionix NAOS 7000 and a SteelSeries Rival. I'll check them both out, keep one, and RMA the other.


cool beans!


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> I think the click latency on the DA is mostly due to pre-travel on the physical buttons themselves, not anything to do with firmware.


when we talk about click latency, we mean the time between electrical actuation and mouse response. this depends only on how the firmware (and rarely hardware) implement deboucing, and how often the state is sampled.

but of course with stiffer buttons or shells with more pre-travel, the time between application of physical force and electrical actuation increases


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> when we talk about click latency, we mean the time between electrical actuation and mouse response. this depends only on how the firmware (and rarely hardware) implement deboucing, and how often the state is sampled.
> 
> but of course with stiffer buttons or shells with more pre-travel, the time between application of physical force and electrical actuation increases


Thanks for the clarification, I'm still a newbie when it comes to gaming hardware.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Rival is a brick mouse


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aph-*
> 
> I would like a mouse that has the best sensor and click latency, doesnt have too many buttons and is small and light if possible


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## qsxcv

fyi mlt04 mice have 10ms click latency


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aph-*
> 
> I would like a mouse that has the best sensor and click latency, doesnt have too many buttons and is small and light if possible


G302, G303, G402, G502. Pick your poison.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> fyi mlt04 mice have 10ms click latency


You're talking about this right http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/0_50


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Rival vs G502 ?

(Just want opinions please)


----------



## wareya

if you're getting a big heavy mouse just get a g502


----------



## MaximilianKohler

>Rival vs G502 ?

Depends what you value in a mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Rival vs G502 ?
> 
> (Just want opinions please)


G502. G502 is better in all regards except for design (spaceship much?) and weight


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You're talking about this right http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/0_50


well i measured with bump test vs g100s. but bump test is reasonably accurate

personally 10ms is right on the verge of being unacceptably high


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G502. G502 is better in all regards except for design (spaceship much?) and weight


But if the PMW 3310 is good enough for most situations, (with the 3366 being a bonus bit better) it's really down to mouse shape / feel etc?


----------



## wareya

3366 is effectively flawless. 3310 has one or two minor flaws. it's not just down to shape/feel; if the g502 or g303 are neither perfect for you, you must make a tradeoff between sensor and shape


----------



## marcovh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> G400s still in sale? Don't like the shape though, which DA are you talking about specifically? S3988?
> 
> Rival and Zowie have 3310 which has smoothing...
> 
> IMO
> 
> IE3.0
> G400 or Razer DA


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

And yes the g400s can still be ordered online!







really happy with it.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> 3366 is effectively flawless. 3310 has one or two minor flaws. it's not just down to shape/feel; if the g502 or g303 are neither perfect for you, you must make a tradeoff between sensor and shape


Minor flaws being, sorry?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> 3366 is effectively flawless. 3310 has one or two minor flaws. it's not just down to shape/feel; if the g502 or g303 are neither perfect for you, you must make a tradeoff between sensor and shape


Minor yet noticeable.


----------



## Natskyge

While not a mouse pad thread i thourght i would ask any way so here goes

I am looking for a new mouse pad to replace my QCK it must have:

Moderate speed
Low starting force
Quick stoping speed
Large
Comfy
I have been looking around alot but there isnt a lot of info on mousepads... so thats why i am asking.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> While not a mouse pad thread i thourght i would ask any way so here goes
> 
> I am looking for a new mouse pad to replace my QCK it must have:
> 
> Moderate speed
> Low starting force
> Quick stoping speed
> Large
> Comfy
> I have been looking around alot but there isnt a lot of info on mousepads... so thats why i am asking.


Sorry to seem unhelpful but AFAIK if you want a low starting force, but a quick stopping speed (speed I presume means time to stop) then the mousemat would have to change it's friction levels on-the-go.

I'd settle for something that you think would most allow you to accomplish your wishes without breaking the laws of physics (IE the middle ground of what you ask, or focus on what you think is most important). So, my reccomendation would be the new Zowie Pad, because I herad it's comfy, it's bigger than the QCK, and while still a cloth pad (so compared to the hard-mat counterparts) it is relatively high int terms of friction, but certainly less than QCK.

I believe that fits your middle path best.

If you really want low friction,l the HeatoN QPAD XL (Which I own, but don't use because a higher friction is better for gaming) is large and has really low friction levels, but it is discontinued.

GL on your search!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Artisan Hien


----------



## Natskyge

With the new zowie pad i asume you mean G-SR? Thanks to both of you!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> With the new zowie pad i asume you mean G-SR? Thanks to both of you!


might be G-TF X


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> might be G-TF X


Yup sorry!

GL HF


----------



## Natskyge

I have heard that th G-TFX is realy fast? Also a better describsion of what i am looking for is a fifty fifty pad, 50% control 50% speed. Thanks for the help so far!


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I have heard that th G-TFX is realy fast? Also a better describsion of what i am looking for is a fifty fifty pad, 50% control 50% speed. Thanks for the help so far!


Believe me from having used a hard mouse pad, that cloth pads simply can't be fast.

It's the same coating as the previous speed versions of Zowie's mousemats, and even then, it's not a huge amount faster.

The G-SR would be more 'control' but to be frank, you would not be getting much of an improvment from your QCK.

All I say is aviod hard-pads. I could not at all adapt to the low-friction and I spent the best part of 100 hours trying to do so.


----------



## iota-09

so, i think to update my gaming setup, and if i can find the money, the mouse should the first thing to update(next up the monitor)

what i'm using at the moment is a perixx mx3000, it's comfortable, all the buttons are good enough and in perfect places for me, even the ergonomy, while it might feel a tad too big sometimes, with the grip i use (like this one, but tilted to the right and th epalm barely touch the mouse http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/8hjcw/product_images/uploaded_images/castor-5-fingers-one-home.jpg?t=1436366312 ) it is pretty damn good.

the only problems i have aside obviously from the fact that i feel the sensor is extremely inaccurate for minimal movements(e.g. sniping at extreme range) , is that the scroll wheel is way too soft, given my grip, many times i unintentionally scroll, and changing grip is not an option as this is the most ocmfortable one for me and i stay at the pc for an extremely long time each day.

as for the buttons, i need all of them, maybe i can say goodbye to the dpi ones, but i say, better more than less, that because i don't use a keyboard, but the left side of a splitfish controller(i can't find a good positionfor the keyboard and i get cramps, using half a controller was the best solution)

as for the weight, i don't really mind, i've been using the mouse at both its maximum weight(all 6 lead inserts) and minimmum weight(not even the foam "bed" for the lead in the mouse)

most importantly, the dpi at which i'm using it is the factory standard 1500dpi, naturally with no accelleration and windows settings at 6.

people have told me undirectly to get castor, but i don't really have an opinion on that one at the moment.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

We're here to help!!!

But seriously, it's time you catch up and read what makes a mouse good or not.

"1500 DPI max" is the first bad sign, but then 'no inherent acceleration'. Not sure I can believe that either; AT BEST, they'll be a tonne of jitter and smoothing and all things bad. Getting a good sensor instead of some cheapo is imperative if you want to improve.

So, NEVER have a DPI above 2000 (I'll leave you to find out why). DPI is misnomer used to trick unsuspecting customers. Every pro CS:GO player has a DPI less than 1600 (some have a very good sensor which is why they use that, but normally 1000 is the limit for decent tracking).

The G502 Logitech would suit you - brillitant tracking with the best sensor, the PMW3366 and it does have lots of buttons, but it is very weighty - a possible hinderance, trust me.

The only two sensors to trust are the PMW3310 and PMW3366 (better) and don't opt for anything worse.

I play CS:GO at 800 DPI (Rival Native DPI) and 0.8 in-game sensitivity - I understand you'll be used to your sensitivity but it's easy to find out what you need to change in order to have the same 'overall' sensitivity after you lower your DPI.

DPI*IngameSens=Sens Index. Simple maths is needed to rearrange to your heart's content.

Just incase, there is basically Zero need to change DPI on the fly. You'll ruin muscle memory if you change the sensitivity of something; also, a lower sensitivity helps people to aim better - modern day sensors can track at faster speeds, which you'll be doing if you had a low sensitivity. I began FPS gaming sitting on a living-room chair, with my 15 FPS Laptop running TF2 on the TV at 30 Hz; following what I learnt here and around the internet, I am actually above-average in my skills for FPS. (Not bragging, but I put it down to lots of time and good equipment)

Now, I play with a proper monitor, mousemat, gaming mouse, gaming keyboard, gaming headset and gaming chair (it's soooo comfy!







) and I really really have noticed the difference, and while each part helps in it's own way, having good gear has overall given me the best possible advantage in progressing in video-games. I now know if I miss or do something wrong, it's not the equipment - it's me. And I find that reassuring because it means I can improve.

Getting good gear will really help you, 100% promise.

To sum up: G502 or anything really with a PMW3310 (becuase you need something better!) and I reccomend a mouse with an ergonomic design because from experience they are always more comfortable for long gaming sessions. G502 also has a very good scrol-wheel, so I think you'll like that. Many modern gaming mice have decent scroll wheels, so I wouldn't worry.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> so, i think to update my gaming setup, and if i can find the money, the mouse should the first thing to update(next up the monitor)
> 
> what i'm using at the moment is a perixx mx3000, it's comfortable, all the buttons are good enough and in perfect places for me, even the ergonomy, while it might feel a tad too big sometimes, with the grip i use (like this one, but tilted to the right and th epalm barely touch the mouse http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/8hjcw/product_images/uploaded_images/castor-5-fingers-one-home.jpg?t=1436366312 ) it is pretty damn good.
> 
> the only problems i have aside obviously from the fact that i feel the sensor is extremely inaccurate for minimal movements(e.g. sniping at extreme range) , is that the scroll wheel is way too soft, given my grip, many times i unintentionally scroll, and changing grip is not an option as this is the most ocmfortable one for me and i stay at the pc for an extremely long time each day.
> 
> as for the buttons, i need all of them, maybe i can say goodbye to the dpi ones, but i say, better more than less, that because i don't use a keyboard, but the left side of a splitfish controller(i can't find a good positionfor the keyboard and i get cramps, using half a controller was the best solution)
> 
> as for the weight, i don't really mind, i've been using the mouse at both its maximum weight(all 6 lead inserts) and minimmum weight(not even the foam "bed" for the lead in the mouse)
> 
> most importantly, the dpi at which i'm using it is the factory standard 1500dpi, naturally with no accelleration and windows settings at 6.
> 
> people have told me undirectly to get castor, but i don't really have an opinion on that one at the moment.


Since you have a finger type grip i would suggest Zowie FK series and ZA series, Mionix Avoir 7000 and Logitech G502 and G303.

The Zowie's and avoir is prety much the same and are up to personal preferance, however their sensors ( 3310 ) are worse than the Logitech's with the 3366. If you can give up comfort the G303 is the best, it isnt for everyone however.

Off topic: Are you the same guy that posts on Marbleducks videos and symthic?


----------



## iota-09

no well, the dpi max i think was 8200 or 4200, can't remember well, i never use such high dpi. when i talk about no accelleration i mean the software one, afaik, th sensor still has it, at least to some degree.

well, if you read that again, i don't use a keyboard bcause it hurts pretty badly my hands, and playing games like battlefield where you end up using basically every button and more with the configuration i have i actually really need at least 3 extra buttons on my mouse.

also yeah, i know not much, but at least some things about dpi, i'll try for now to lower the sensitivity to 500 dpi and changing in-game sensitivity accordingly to see if it works better.

i'll also give a check to the 502, but from what i can see by images it is... a really weird looking mouse, on r.a.t. levels, is it really good for the grip i use?

@natskyge
yep, you can say i'm the most stupid of the most active symthic guys that's why i'm asking here as a newcomer.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> no well, the dpi max i think was 8200 or 4200, can't remember well, i never use such high dpi. when i talk about no accelleration i mean the software one, afaik, th sensor still has it, at least to some degree.
> 
> well, if you read that again, i don't use a keyboard bcause it hurts pretty badly my hands, and playing games like battlefield where you end up using basically every button and more with the configuration i have i actually really need at least 3 extra buttons on my mouse.
> 
> also yeah, i know not much, but at least some things about dpi, i'll try for now to lower the sensitivity to 500 dpi and changing in-game sensitivity accordingly to see if it works better.
> 
> i'll also give a check to the 502, but from what i can see by images it is... a really weird looking mouse, on r.a.t. levels, is it really good for the grip i use?
> 
> @natskyge
> yep, you can say i'm the most stupid of the most active symthic guys that's why i'm asking here as a newcomer.


Edited sorry.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> no well, the dpi max i think was 8200 or 4200, can't remember well, i never use such high dpi. when i talk about no accelleration i mean the software one, afaik, th sensor still has it, at least to some degree.
> 
> well, if you read that again, i don't use a keyboard bcause it hurts pretty badly my hands, and playing games like battlefield where you end up using basically every button and more with the configuration i have i actually really need at least 3 extra buttons on my mouse.
> 
> also yeah, i know not much, but at least some things about dpi, i'll try for now to lower the sensitivity to 500 dpi and changing in-game sensitivity accordingly to see if it works better.
> 
> i'll also give a check to the 502, but from what i can see by images it is... a really weird looking mouse, on r.a.t. levels, is it really good for the grip i use?
> 
> @natskyge
> yep, you can say i'm the most stupid of the most active symthic guys that's why i'm asking here as a newcomer.


I have heard about people using a G502 with a finger grip, it is very heavy tho. The comfort as far as i know is alot like the usual logitech style, look up reviews here.


----------



## iota-09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I have heard about people using a G502 with a finger grip, it is very heavy tho. The comfort as far as i know is alot like the usual logitech style, look up reviews here.


on the logitech site it says it weighs around 121 grams, is that with or without the lead weights? at the moment, i'm using the mx3000 at 95 grams, and have seen i'm able to use it efficiently up to around 115 grams.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

If you have not-small hands you can claw / finger the G502 fine.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> on the logitech site it says it weighs around 121 grams, is that with or without the lead weights? at the moment, i'm using the mx3000 at 95 grams, and have seen i'm able to use it efficiently up to around 115 grams.


That's without weights and without cable. I would always consider worst case scenario., EG, here with cable weight(~150g)

That's heavy enough, though, believe me. Adding extra weights will only make it more sluggish!


----------



## iota-09

i guess you could say i have mid-sized hands: bigger than most women, smaller than most men, using m-l sized para-military gloves

anyway, i think the problem i have with using too much weighs on the mx3000 isn't the weight itself, but where lies the balance, on the mx3000 it is in the base, where SUPPOSEDLY the palm would rest, i've seen that on the g502 it is more on the center, and the 303 simply is just light, so i'll see, i think i have much less choices now, either g303 or the g502, if i choose the 502 i'll try and adapt my hand to a heavier weight(the weirder balance will make it even better when i get the mouse anyway) while if i choose the 303 i'll try and use less buttons(or at least delete the dpi buttons)

in any case i think i'll get the chosen one just after the start of november,


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> i guess you could say i have mid-sized hands: bigger than most women, smaller than most men, using m-l sized para-military gloves
> 
> anyway, i think the problem i have with using too much weighs on the mx3000 isn't the weight itself, but where lies the balance, on the mx3000 it is in the base, where SUPPOSEDLY the palm would rest, i've seen that on the g502 it is more on the center, and the 303 simply is just light, so i'll see, i think i have much less choices now, either g303 or the g502, if i choose the 502 i'll try and adapt my hand to a heavier weight(the weirder balance will make it even better when i get the mouse anyway) while if i choose the 303 i'll try and use less buttons(or at least delete the dpi buttons)
> 
> in any case i think i'll get the chosen one just after the start of november,


Here in the UK you can return an item (if in reasonable condition) within 14 days; perhaps where you are it's the same, and you can 'try' the G303 (don't get confused and buy the G302!)


----------



## iota-09

yes you can, but if i'm not wrong you pay the shipping costs.

on another topic, i found something weird, supposedly, if i had lower dpi but higher in-game sensitivity, i should be more accurate, right? well, that's not what i'm seeing, not in bf4 at least, with always the same 360 distance/speed, at 500 dpi i covered a 20 cm area at 80 meters in 1-2 "clicks", at 1500 it took me approximately 3-5, while at 2000 it took me 6-7, which honestly seems reeeeally weird, what could be the cause? i shouldn't be more accurate with higher dpi, and i'm pretty sure i have no acceleration and am using raw mouse input in the game... or maybe i'm idiot and it's the other way around?

would that be the same with a mouse using a better sensor?


----------



## 123qwerty

Hello guys. I have steelseries kinzu v2. But clickers are dying slowly. I need new stuff. I have small hands - 17.5 cm, grip is a mix of palm/claw. DPI 1600, in game sens - 0.75. Most of the time I play cs go. Sometimes dota 2. My pad is SS QCK+. What I need from mouse:
- Good sensor
- Low or medium LOD
- Small
- Lightweight
- Plug'n'play (I don't want to use any manufacturer ****)

I don't care about DPI. Can play on native and adjust my game sens if it needs

I now stuck between
- Razer abyssus - simple, cheap and suitable shape, at least on foto. Won't use synapse ever. native dpi and polling rate seems ok.
- Zowie fk2 - pure plug n play, but, as I have read, big button lag
- Roccat Pure Military - I didn't find information about its plug n play settings. But as I understood I can install software, setup mouse, store settings in mouse, then delete soft. And have concerns about button lag. but last firmware reported 4ms?

Any advice on these? Or may be another mice?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *123qwerty*
> 
> Hello guys. I have steelseries kinzu v2. But clickers are dying slowly. I need new stuff. I have small hands - 17.5 cm, grip is a mix of palm/claw. DPI 1600, in game sens - 0.75. Most of the time I play cs go. Sometimes dota 2. My pad is SS QCK+. What I need from mouse:
> - Good sensor
> - Low or medium LOD
> - Small
> - Lightweight
> - Plug'n'play (I don't want to use any manufacturer ****)
> 
> I don't care about DPI. Can play on native and adjust my game sens if it needs
> 
> I now stuck between
> - Razer abyssus - simple, cheap and suitable shape, at least on foto. Won't use synapse ever. native dpi and polling rate seems ok.
> - Zowie fk2 - pure plug n play, but, as I have read, big button lag
> - Roccat Pure Military - I didn't find information about its plug n play settings. But as I understood I can install software, setup mouse, store settings in mouse, then delete soft. And have concerns about button lag. but last firmware reported 4ms?
> 
> Any advice on these? Or may be another mice?


I would personally reccomend the EC2-A from Zowie as that is a vrey good mouse (sensor wise at least) and from experience ergonomic mice are always more comfortable for playing long gaming sessions. The lag has been decreased too btw.

The G303 has the best sensor on the market with high preferable clicks, and is lightweight, but you would need software, but you can always uninstall it after as it has on-board memory profiles.


----------



## rannox

*Q:What's your grip style?*
A: Fingertip/Claw (originally thought I was a palm/claw hybrid, but my palm rarely, if ever, touches the mouse when I'm gaming)

*Q: What's your sensitivity?*
A: 1600

*Q: What's your maximum budget?*
A: $75

*Q: Do you want additional buttons?*
A: 2 side buttons

*Q: What games do you play?*
A: H1Z1, Dota2, Wildstar, CS:GO, Cod2 on a rare occasion

*Q: Do you mind about prediction?*
A: Preferably Little to none

*Q: Other relevant information:*
A1: XL Hands (11cm palm width, 22cm length, 26cm hand span) Width is the most important to me, a good length is nice too, as I occasionally palm for web browsing and stuff, but not imperative
A2: Optical preferred.

** Mice I've used and don't find comfortable for more than 30 mins of gaming: Naos, RAT, Logitech G502/G402/G303, KPM

** Mice I'm debating on: Corsair M45, Roccat Kone XTD Optical

Currently using a Kone[+], but its old, already repaired it twice, has acceleration, and I've always wished it was a touch wider.

_Edited for clarification_


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rannox*
> 
> *Q:What's your grip style?*
> A: Fingertip/Claw (originally thought I was a palm/claw hybrid, but my palm rarely, if ever, touches the mouse when I'm gaming)
> 
> *Q: What's your sensitivity?*
> A: 1600
> 
> *Q: What's your maximum budget?*
> A: $75
> 
> *Q: Do you want additional buttons?*
> A: 2 side buttons
> 
> *Q: What games do you play?*
> A: H1Z1, Dota2, Wildstar, CS:GO, Cod2 on a rare occasion
> 
> *Q: Do you mind about prediction?*
> A: Preferably Little to none
> 
> *Q: Other relevant information:*
> A1: XL Hands (11cm palm width, 22cm length, 26cm hand span) Width is the most important to me, a good length is nice too, as I occasionally palm for web browsing and stuff, but not imperative
> A2: Optical preferred.
> 
> ** Mice I've used and don't find comfortable for more than 30 mins of gaming: Naos, RAT, 502/402/303, KPM
> 
> ** Mice I'm debating on: Corsair M45, Roccat Kone XTD Optical
> 
> Currently using a Kone[+], but its old, already repaired it twice, has acceleration, and I've always wished it was a touch wider.


If you can live with out palm ability then G303, other wise its G502 ( heavy ), ZA ( no softwar +bad buttons for most ), FK (from zowie like the ZA, same but diffrent ), Avoir 7000, Castor. ( both Mionix, no major flaws )

G303 and G502 use the best sensor currently avaliable, the 3366.


----------



## Dreyark

*1.What's your grip style?*
Claw
*2.What's your sensitivity?*
400 DPI
*3. What's your maximum budget?*
no maximum price
*4.Do you want additional buttons?*
YES minimum 2
*5.What games do you play?*
CS:GO
*6.Other relevant information:*
I search mouse with one of the best sensors, non-braided cord


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyark*
> 
> *1.What's your grip style?*
> Claw
> *2.What's your sensitivity?*
> 400 DPI
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> no maximum price
> *4.Do you want additional buttons?*
> YES minimum 2
> *5.What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> *6.Other relevant information:*
> I search mouse with one of the best sensors, non-braided cord


FK Series would be best for you (from Zowie). The FK1 has an excellent sensor and has 2 extra buttons. GL


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> If you can live with out palm ability then G303, other wise its G502 ( heavy ), ZA ( no softwar +bad buttons for most ), FK (from zowie like the ZA, same but diffrent ), Avoir 7000, Castor. ( both Mionix, no major flaws )
> 
> G303 and G502 use the best sensor currently avaliable, the 3366.


Pretty sure G303 would be super super uncomfortable for 22 cm hands. Same with G502.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> So, NEVER have a DPI above 2000 (I'll leave you to find out why). DPI is misnomer used to trick unsuspecting customers. Every pro CS:GO player has a DPI less than 1600 (some have a very good sensor which is why they use that, but normally 1000 is the limit for decent tracking).


Well pros got used to their 400/800 DPI and that's why they use it. I've played on both DPI's with same in-game sensitivity and a month ago I changed to 1600 DPI and I haven't noticed any pixel skipping or jitter at all. I was using Zowie EC2-A and now I got my Mionix Castor and I love both of these mice. Especially fell in love with Castor, although it will take me sometime to get used to how to grip it, since I have never before used all 5 fingers to hold a mouse (I'm palm/claw hybrid gripper).


----------



## rannox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Pretty sure G303 would be super super uncomfortable for 22 cm hands. Same with G502.


I actually mentioned how all the new Logitech mice are uncomfortable to me after about 30 mins of gaming in my original post, but figured he would eventually notice.

_*Just edited the original post to make it more clear._


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Well pros got used to their 400/800 DPI and that's why they use it. I've played on both DPI's with same in-game sensitivity and a month ago I changed to 1600 DPI and I haven't noticed any pixel skipping or jitter at all. I was using Zowie EC2-A and now I got my Mionix Castor and I love both of these mice. Especially fell in love with Castor, although it will take me sometime to get used to how to grip it, since I have never before used all 5 fingers to hold a mouse (I'm palm/claw hybrid gripper).


Gotta disagree with you partly there buddy:

they choose those numbers because they are best for tracking. It's not about being used to a sensitivity because they could play on 8000 DPI and 1/10 of the normal sensitivity and still get the same 'mathematical' sensitivity [index] but in reality, that would not benefit them.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rannox*
> 
> I actually mentioned how all the new Logitech mice are uncomfortable to me after about 30 mins of gaming in my original post, but figured he would eventually notice.
> 
> _*Just edited the original post to make it more clear._


You might want to try out the SS Rival? It's a larger mouse. Maybe not the biggest width wise, but it has good length. Has all the features you're interested in. I imagine it would be good for someone with larger hands.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Gotta disagree with you partly there buddy:
> 
> they choose those numbers because they are best for tracking.


Not sure where you got this kind of info. Take a note also that most of them play on 4:3 low resolutions such as 1024x768 . I don't notice any difference in performance between 400-1600 DPI (same sensitivity in-game) . Then again I game at 1920x1080 .


----------



## iota-09

yeah, i don't know about cs:go, but trying the other day on bf4 at 16:9 1080p higher dpi seemed to be more accurate, but(as it has been said before) past 2000 dpi it didn't really matter.

as far as i have understood dpi precision is relative to resolution, the higher the in-game resolution, the higher dpi you can use effectively.

which is also why counter strike players use low dpi, because there wil be in no way possible jitter and they also won't need higher precision as simply there aren't that many pixels on their screen.


----------



## hza

@rannox I'd go with Kone XTD Optical. You didn't mention to have any 'comfort issues' on Kone[+], so...


----------



## Chuck89

I have had an Avior SK for nearly 1,5 years now and in the last few months it developed some issues - namely with the mouse wheel. Right now, the middle click stopped working entirely. I already asked Mionix for a replacement under warranty, which shouldnt be a problem. However, i need to send the mouse back to sweden first and wait a few weeks as they dont have any Avior SK in store.

This means, that i will need a new mouse as soon as possible.

My hands are about 20cm in length, my preferred grip is a claw/palm hybrid (sometimes its a relaxed palm, and sometimes more like a claw grip) and im a high sensitivity user.

Last year i already tried the Logitech G502, Steelseries Rival, Mionix Naos 7000 and the Razer Deathadder until i finally settled on the Avior SK/7000. The sensor of the G502 was awesome, but the scroll wheel was horrible and unreliable (skipping) and i had the double-click problem. I hated the wheel of the Rival and didnt like the overall feel and building quality of this mouse. The Deathadders quality was a joke as well.

What would be a good alternative?

A few months ago i considered the Zowie ZA11 or ZA12 as a worthy successor to my problematic Avior. Apparently, the mouse wheels of Zowie mice arent that great as well.

So, what would you do/buy?

Thank you!


----------



## hza

Maybe new Roccat Kova? It's ambidextrous. No clue, if you like that design, but the wheel on Roccat mice shouldn't give you headache. They use a very nice encoder.


----------



## semencmoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iota-09*
> 
> yeah, i don't know about cs:go, but trying the other day on bf4 at 16:9 1080p higher dpi seemed to be more accurate, but(as it has been said before) past 2000 dpi it didn't really matter.
> 
> as far as i have understood dpi precision is relative to resolution, the higher the in-game resolution, the higher dpi you can use effectively.
> 
> which is also why counter strike players use low dpi, because there wil be in no way possible jitter and they also won't need higher precision as simply there aren't that many pixels on their screen.






csgo pros use very different settings of dpi and in-game sensitivity, but most of them use low sensitivity settings to have bigger numbers of cm/360°, because... whell there starts magic, because most of cs pros explains this as "it just feels more accurate" or "you need to try, and you will understend". however it's true for CS.

for battlefield yes, you want abit higher sensitivity settings, but you don't need change dpi settings for that either, just turn ingame sens slider, and use the same 400 dpi, which you want to use in cs.

P.S. in CS your resolution doesn't affect your sensitivity. no matter if you fullhd or 800/600, you will get same cm/360° numbers.


----------



## aerowalk30

I had assumed that pros have been playing CS for close to 10+ years now and if you look back at 2005-2011 you'll see nearly every single pro was using an IE3.0 or IE1.1 (2009-2011 transitioning to SS mice) which are locked at 400-450dpi. Thus you use a specific setting for that long it becomes hard to justify a swap over to higher DPI even when swapping over newer sponsor mice. This is pretty obvious when you look at the DPIs used by a number of "new-school" gamers in the pro scene, a couple of them use / have used higher DPIs then you're used to seeing from the older generation of gamers.

BUT thats just what I've noticed from my own personal experience and assume its the same for most at the top as well.


----------



## qsxcv

you lose precision if you measure by pixels, which is relevant in 2d environments, but in 3d games you lower sensitivity to compensate and the net effect is that... well it doesn't really matter until you decrease the dpi enough that you have to set an in-game sens high enough to give pixel skipping.

that said, high dpi introduces a slew of other potential problems
-mice with older sensors (or newer sensors + garbage firmware) have lower malfunction speeds at higher dpis due to using 8bit integers for the motion counts.
-using m_rawinput 0 without rinput in csgo (or any other 3d game using cursor grabbing) can potentially result in neg accel due to the cursor hitting the side of the screen. this happens more easily with lower framerates and higher dpis
-9800 and 3988 increase smoothing for higher dpis. not sure about the thresholds for 9800, but for 3988, anything at or above 1600dpi has more smoothing than anything at or below 1550dpi. similarly the am010 in the g402 and g302 has no smoothing at or below 2000dpi but a small amount (4frames, ~0.8ms) at or above 2080dpi.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> I had assumed that pros have been playing CS for close to 10+ years now and if you look back at 2005-2011 you'll see nearly every single pro was using an IE3.0 or IE1.1 (2009-2011 transitioning to SS mice) which are locked at 400-450dpi. Thus you use a specific setting for that long it becomes hard to justify a swap over to higher DPI even when swapping over newer sponsor mice. This is pretty obvious when you look at the DPIs used by a number of "new-school" gamers in the pro scene, a couple of them use / have used higher DPIs then you're used to seeing from the older generation of gamers.
> 
> BUT thats just what I've noticed from my own personal experience and assume its the same for most at the top as well.


i think it's simply that 400dpi has just become sort of a default setting for people to use. i doubt that anyone would find it difficult to go from 400 to 800dpi and halve in-game sens.


----------



## Zyther

*[*] What's your grip style?* Palm
*[*] What's your sensitivity?* Low, about 1 in CSGO
*[*] What's your maximum budget?* No budget
*[*] Do you want additional buttons?* Dont Mind
*[*] What games do you play?* CS:GO, Starwars Battlefront, Unreal Tornament
*[*] Do you mind about prediction?* Turn that ***** off
[*] Other relevant information:
*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Right hand shape like the deathadder, rival etc.


----------



## aerowalk30

I think that's what I meant
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zyther*
> 
> *[*] What's your grip style?* Palm
> *[*] What's your sensitivity?* Low, about 1 in CSGO
> *[*] What's your maximum budget?* No budget
> *[*] Do you want additional buttons?* Dont Mind
> *[*] What games do you play?* CS:GO, Starwars Battlefront, Unreal Tornament
> *[*] Do you mind about prediction?* Turn that ***** off
> [*] Other relevant information:
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Right hand shape like the deathadder, rival etc.


You could get another DeathAdder if thats the shape you want? Or look into the Zowie EC1/EC2 series. The EC1 is slightly and imo more shaped like the DA but with softer edges, EC2 is smaller and skinnier.


----------



## Zyther

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> I think that's what I meant
> You could get another DeathAdder if thats the shape you want? Or look into the Zowie EC1/EC2 series. The EC1 is slightly and imo more shaped like the DA but with softer edges, EC2 is smaller and skinnier.


I thought about it, but alot of people are saying the build quality has droped and other mice have better sensors now, my current death adder is the black edition but its started to play up.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zyther*
> 
> I thought about it, but alot of people are saying the build quality has droped and other mice have better sensors now, my current death adder is the black edition but its started to play up.


If it's the switches, easy enough to replace them. Better do that rather than spend more money buying another Razer product.


----------



## Noob1080

1. What's your grip style? Claw mostly

2. What's your sensitivity? I haven't really played with high end mice, but I do like the dpi switch on the cheapie I'm using now .

3. What's your maximum budget? 35-$40

4. Do you want additional buttons? I want a dpi switch(maybe programmable)

5. What games do you play? Not much really. Every now and then, I'll play something I saw on Youtube or on Steam. However, I did just start playing Planetside 2(an mmo futuristic first person shooter).

6. Do you mind about prediction? I don't know.

7. Other relevant information: I am looking for a mouse to play Planetside 2 with, no other reason. My current mouse, an "ACCESSORY POWER ENHANCE TechnaMOUSE" feels too small and the right click button is a little too short, though this isn't really noticeable in any of my other games. I am looking at a Madcatz R.A.T. 3 (titanfall edition because it's cheaper) because of the partially adjustable shape and programmable dpi switch. Is this a good choice?


----------



## bobsacamano86

[*] What's your grip style? Palm
[*] What's your sensitivity? I've been using 1150 on zowie but before that 800
[*] What's your maximum budget? $80 from Amazon
[*] Do you want additional buttons? Changing dpi would be nice but not necessary
[*] What games do you play? FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Don't want it
[*] Other relevant information: My hand length from tip of finger to palm is 7inches. I'm currently using the zowie ec1 evo white but I find it to be slippery. I have to grip the mouse too tight and actually have thumb pain from it.

I've tried the White Rival and liked the glossy feel and rubber grips but the hump on the back was too big. Didn't like the Sensei, too narrow I think. I was thinking of getting a ec2-a but I don't know if the grip would be good or not. Ideally I'd like some rubber or something on the sides for better grip. I was looking at the Cougar 450m but it seems like the same size as the Rival.

I was even looking at the g303 since it's got the best sensor and maybe the diamond shape wouldn't hurt my thumb but it seems too small to palm.

I was also looking at the Rival 100 but the sensor doesn't seem the best and I'm not sure of the shape. I'd prefer a 3310 as I really liked the Rival except for the shape. I can live with an inferior sensor though as long as the shape is comfortable so I can game without any pain.


----------



## overclockerjames

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsacamano86*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? Palm
> [*] What's your sensitivity? I've been using 1150 on zowie but before that 800
> [*] What's your maximum budget? $80 from Amazon
> [*] Do you want additional buttons? Changing dpi would be nice but not necessary
> [*] What games do you play? FPS
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? Don't want it
> [*] Other relevant information: My hand length from tip of finger to palm is 7inches. I'm currently using the zowie ec1 evo white but I find it to be slippery. I have to grip the mouse too tight and actually have thumb pain from it.
> 
> I've tried the White Rival and liked the glossy feel and rubber grips but the hump on the back was too big. Didn't like the Sensei, too narrow I think. I was thinking of getting a ec2-a but I don't know if the grip would be good or not. Ideally I'd like some rubber or something on the sides for better grip. I was looking at the Cougar 450m but it seems like the same size as the Rival.
> 
> I was even looking at the g303 since it's got the best sensor and maybe the diamond shape wouldn't hurt my thumb but it seems too small to palm.
> 
> I was also looking at the Rival 100 but the sensor doesn't seem the best and I'm not sure of the shape. I'd prefer a 3310 as I really liked the Rival except for the shape. I can live with an inferior sensor though as long as the shape is comfortable so I can game without any pain.


Have you tried the g700s? I have one and it sounds like what you're looking for, with the changing DPI buttons on the mouse. Sensor is one of the fastest you can get, 8200 dpi, and USB report rate is 1000 reports/second. It even has a detachable micro USB cord so it can be corded or cordless if you like. Price is about the same as a g303


----------



## bobsacamano86

I've never tried the g700s, I actually have a g500s that I use for everything but gaming. I guess that's two things I should have mentioned in my post, I'd prefer an optical sensor and I'd rather have a lighter mouse. I found the g500s too heavy for gaming and I had some thumb pain from it too from fps games. I guess I can try raising my sensitivity again because I used to be a wrist player with a higher sens and never had thumb pain but I lowered my sens and started using my arm to aim and I have better aim that way but thumb pain as well.


----------



## JerDerv

Hia guys, i have been gaming casually for the past 4 years. For the last 2 years i have been using a Logitech G400. I like the mouse and im looking for something similar but better. My girlfriend is getting into gaming and id like to give the g400 to her and buy something new for myself.









What's your grip style? *The Clawwww*
What's your sensitivity? *Low-Medium, 3.5" for 360, I think im using 800dpi on the g400.*
What's your maximum budget? *Id like to stay around/under $50. However if theres a must have mouse for more...*
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, at least two on the left side and i like the idea of Roocats shift+ thingy so you can have multiple uses for each button.*
What games do you play? *BF4, Battlefront, CSGO, dayz, borderlands, grandtheft auto, tomb raider, etc.*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes, i believe the g400 im using now does not have prediction and id like to avoid it.*
Other relevant information: *Onboard memory, clean looks. Not wanting anything super flashy.*
Mice im already interested in:

Roocat KPM
Corsair Raptor M45
Zowie Gear EC2-A


----------



## Broseph

What's your grip style? *Slightly relaxed claw*
What's your sensitivity? *49.4805cm/360. Currently using 400dpi and 2.1 in CSGO*
What's your maximum budget? *-nil-*
Do you want additional buttons? *2 side buttons*
What games do you play? *FPS games, mainly CSGO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes. No acceleration as well*
Other relevant information: *Preferably low LOD, non-braided cable, not heavy weight*


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Broseph*
> 
> What's your grip style? *Slightly relaxed claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *49.4805cm/360. Currently using 400dpi and 2.1 in CSGO*
> What's your maximum budget? *-nil-*
> Do you want additional buttons? *2 side buttons*
> What games do you play? *FPS games, mainly CSGO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Yes. No acceleration as well*
> Other relevant information: *Preferably low LOD, non-braided cable, not heavy weight*


Logitech G303
Zowie FK1/FK2, Zowie ZA11/12/13 depending on the size of your hand


----------



## Nitrogannex

What's your grip style?
Modified Fingertip. The ball of my hand rests on the arch of the mouse.

What's your sensitivity?
400-800 dpi

What's your maximum budget?
100 but less is better

Do you want additional buttons?
A few Side buttons

What games do you play?
TF2 and RO2 mainly.

Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably none, but if a mouse fits my needs perfectly in other areas, I'll deal with it.

Other relevant information:
I have very large hands

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Plug and Play is Nice, as is a Finish that resists dirt. Metal would be superb, I just don't want something that feels cheap


----------



## cyfer

I am looking for a new mouse. My G400 has issues switching DPS and I simply want something new :Ü

What's your grip style? *Palm, although I am open to claw*
What's your sensitivity? *Used to be high, but I am trying to get used to mid-sense (800-1600)*
What's your maximum budget? *50€*
Do you want additional buttons? *Thumb buttons are a must*
What games do you play? *A bit of CS:GO, LoL and Starcraft II*
Do you mind about prediction? *I want a "perfect" sensor*
Other relevant information: *I have really large hands. I live in Germany. I prefer to use the mouse WITHOUT drivers.*

Mice I am considering:

Sharkoon Fireglider Optical
A4Tech Bloody V7 (what's the difference between V7 and V7m?)
A4Tech Bloody V3 (what's the difference between V3 and V3m?)
CM Storm Alcor
Steelseries Rival Optical

There are also various Logitech mice, but I loathe their childish design. Do Razer mice require a 3rd party program to function? I heard something.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyfer*
> 
> I am looking for a new mouse. My G400 has issues switching DPS and I simply want something new :Ü
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm, although I am open to claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *Used to be high, but I am trying to get used to mid-sense (800-1600)*
> What's your maximum budget? *50€*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Thumb buttons are a must*
> What games do you play? *A bit of CS:GO, LoL and Starcraft II*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I want a "perfect" sensor*
> Other relevant information: *I have really large hands. I live in Germany. I prefer to use the mouse WITHOUT drivers.*
> 
> Mice I am considering:
> 
> Sharkoon Fireglider Optical
> A4Tech Bloody V7 (what's the difference between V7 and V7m?)
> A4Tech Bloody V3 (what's the difference between V3 and V3m?)
> CM Storm Alcor
> Steelseries Rival Optical
> 
> There are also various Logitech mice, but I loathe their childish design. Do Razer mice require a 3rd party program to function? I heard something.


If you could stretch it i think the Zowie EC1-A would fit you well, no software, great sensor and a good shape for palm grip. Razer micerequire software installed on your computer to have access to all functions, hell my ol' naga epic forced my pc to install it in the back ground, so even when deleted it installed again...


----------



## glue33

What's your grip style? *Claw*
What's your sensitivity? *400dpi and 2.2 in CSGO*
Do you want additional buttons? *At least 2 side buttons*
What games do you play? *FPS games, mainly CSGO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes, want a pretty much perfect sensor*
Other relevant information: *Weight similiar to Microsoft WMO would be perfect, wouldn't mind it heavier*
Budget: *Around 60-70€*


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glue33*
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *400dpi and 2.2 in CSGO*
> Do you want additional buttons? *At least 2 side buttons*
> What games do you play? *FPS games, mainly CSGO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Yes, want a pretty much perfect sensor*
> Other relevant information: *Weight similiar to Microsoft WMO would be perfect, wouldn't mind it heavier*
> Budget: *Around 60-70€*


http://www.overclock.net/t/1540167/evga-x5-optical-wow/500#post_24548398


----------



## DNMock

Hunting for a new mouse, realized I don't know a single thing about build quality etc. etc. Help a moron out please.

*What's your grip style?* Lazy fingertip, devolving to palm when angry to teach whomever annoyed me by making the loudest mouse slapping noises. That always shows them.

*What's your sensitivity?* No clue, current mouse is 6400 and it seems fine to me. but a little faster or slower won't kill me.

*What's your maximum budget?* I dunno, maybe $200? Can go higher if needed, but what mouse is over 200 anyway?

*Do you want additional buttons?* Total of 5 + wheel is fine, but would probably prefer 6 or 7 + wheel.

*What games do you play?* Predominantly, Witcher 3, Skyrim, Fallout, MGS, GTA, Shadows of Mordor, AC games when steam sales purge them, and with some little bits of SC2 and Bioshock.
Basically mostly RPG's of all types, with a little RTS and FPS tossed in on occasion.

*Do you mind about prediction?* Should i?

*Other relevant information:* Tiny hands. 5.5" or 14cm with natural curl, 7" or 17.75cm fully extended, measuring from base of palm or wrist joint.

Preference on ergonomics as I have a tendency to drag my wrist at times, and light weight. 100g or so and under would be lovely but i can make due. nice braided cable is a plus but not required. If it lights up, prefer the light-up to be blue if color changing isn't available.

Dimension ballpark:
The 127mm length 44mm height and 70mm width I have seems fine, can't go much bigger though on account of tiny hands.

Eyeballing the Castor, this new Kova Performance that comes out next week I believe, Zowie EC Eco CL, Corsair m65 and both Rival 100 and 300 and Sensei Raw. Wanna stay away from Razer if possible because I hate Synapse, but if they got something that smashes everyone else, I'll deal with synapse.

Thanks in advance


----------



## nightmaster47

Hey, guys!
Help me please, I don't know what to choose for fingertip grip.
Abyssus 2014 or Logitech G100s (or both are bad and I must buy something else?), now I have A4Tech X-748BK (A3080) and it's perfect but it has a prediction and high LOD.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nightmaster47*
> 
> Hey, guys!
> Help me please, I don't know what to choose for fingertip grip.
> Abyssus 2014 or Logitech G100s (or both are bad and I must buy something else?), now I have A4Tech X-748BK (A3080) and it's perfect but it has a prediction and high LOD.


Abyssus only works well without Synapse, thus it's basically a 1800CPI-only mouse. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

G100s is also fantastic, but only has multiples-of-250 steps. Tracking is impeccable.

While the two appear to be of roughly the same size, the Abyssus 2014 feels a little smaller and more nimble to handle than the G100s.

Though I personally love my G100s, I'd recommend the Abyssus 2014 for you.

EDIT: Shape-wise the EVGA X5 is also very close to these


----------



## cyfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyfer*
> 
> I am looking for a new mouse. My G400 has issues switching DPS and I simply want something new :Ü
> 
> What's your grip style? *Palm, although I am open to claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *Used to be high, but I am trying to get used to mid-sense (800-1600)*
> What's your maximum budget? *50€*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Thumb buttons are a must*
> What games do you play? *A bit of CS:GO, LoL and Starcraft II*
> Do you mind about prediction? *I want a "perfect" sensor*
> Other relevant information: *I have really large hands. I live in Germany. I prefer to use the mouse WITHOUT drivers.*
> 
> Mice I am considering:
> 
> Sharkoon Fireglider Optical
> A4Tech Bloody V7 (what's the difference between V7 and V7m?)
> A4Tech Bloody V3 (what's the difference between V3 and V3m?)
> CM Storm Alcor
> Steelseries Rival Optical
> 
> There are also various Logitech mice, but I loathe their childish design. Do Razer mice require a 3rd party program to function? I heard something.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> If you could stretch it i think the Zowie EC1-A would fit you well, no software, great sensor and a good shape for palm grip. Razer micerequire software installed on your computer to have access to all functions, hell my ol' naga epic forced my pc to install it in the back ground, so even when deleted it installed again...


I got myself a Mionix Naos 7000 now, for around 50€.
I tested various mice at a local shop and none convinced me except for some Razer MMO mouse with a ring-finger rest. I fell in love with this rest.

The shape of the Naos looks perfectly suited for me. It's a big mouse for my big hands, it has a nice rest and a good sensor. I also got myself a Steelseries QCK Blue Frost Edition to boot.


----------



## Izidekas

*What's your grip style?* Palm
*What's your sensitivity?* Not sure, 600 i think. 1.2 on csgo
*What's your maximum budget?* 30-50euro could be great
*Do you want additional buttons?* Thumb buttons would be great. Ant the ones that regulate DPI, apart from that i'm okey
*What games do you play?* Csgo moustly. 3-4h daily
*Do you mind about prediction?* mm what?
*Other relevant information:* Had been using M6900 for around 4-5 years and that mouse was great. The size, the grip, the from of it, but now the left button starting to fail. By the way, i think my arms are medium size


----------



## Zyther

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> If it's the switches, easy enough to replace them. Better do that rather than spend more money buying another Razer product.


Its the scrool wheel is super sensitive









Whats the g502 like? alot of people seem to like it, is it much heavier then a DA?


----------



## psyside

Ok guys need help...

Razer Abys Mirror - 16$

Logitech G100s - 19$

SS Kinzu V3 - 30$

I don't game, but i really like precise mouse, with decent scroll speed/feel.....which one would have no dealy when i move left/right? i notice this things quite easy....thanks.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Ok guys need help...
> 
> Razer Abys Mirror - 16$
> 
> Logitech G100s - 19$
> 
> SS Kinzu V3 - 30$
> 
> I don't game, but i really like precise mouse, with decent scroll speed/feel.....which one would have no dealy when i move left/right? i notice this things quite easy....thanks.


Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical


----------



## psyside

Thanks, but there are far too many versions of that mouse, can you give me some more info?


----------



## wareya

WMO, IME1.1, IME3.0

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Explorer-Legends-Edition-3-0-Mouse-/311305057865

They're expensive online but if you live in a western country you can find them used IRL very easily, just talk around


----------



## Izidekas

Quote:


> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity? Not sure, 600 i think. 1.2 on csgo
> What's your maximum budget? 30-50euro could be great
> Do you want additional buttons? Thumb buttons would be great. Ant the ones that regulate DPI, apart from that i'm okey
> What games do you play? Csgo moustly. 3-4h daily
> Do you mind about prediction? mm what?
> Other relevant information: Had been using M6900 for around 4-5 years and that mouse was great. The size, the grip, the from of it, but now the left button starting to fail. By the way, i think my arms are medium size, so


Bump


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> WMO, IME1.1, IME3.0
> 
> example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Explorer-Legends-Edition-3-0-Mouse-/311305057865
> 
> They're expensive online but if you live in a western country you can find them used IRL very easily, just talk around


Hmm price is like 30$ premium compared to the others, does is it really worth it? i wanted a entry level 15-30$ (max) mouse, i'm from EU,thanks.


----------



## wareya

They're expensive online because they're cult items, I said try to find one IRL if you live in the west because they used to be the bog standard office mouse so people IRL sell them cheap at tag sales / yard sales and such


----------



## tatmMRKIV

I want this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sanwa-USB-connector-Opt-Trackball-PRO-5-button-black-MA-TB38R-JAPAN/181900908217?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dabc9dd1e151e438eae8f6bef629f2946%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D361258307373

how good or bad is it?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> WMO, IME1.1, IME3.0
> 
> example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Explorer-Legends-Edition-3-0-Mouse-/311305057865
> 
> They're expensive online but if you live in a western country you can find them used IRL very easily, just talk around
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm price is like 30$ premium compared to the others, does is it really worth it? i wanted a entry level 15-30$ (max) mouse, i'm from EU,thanks.
Click to expand...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-WMO-Steelseries-MOD-100-NEW-5-Colors/121179666270?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dfb30afd9c77a4499beb7d0354d81526f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111432799561


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Wheel-Mouse-Optical-WMO-Steelseries-MOD-100-NEW-5-Colors/121179666270?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dfb30afd9c77a4499beb7d0354d81526f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111432799561


Thanks alot, So you guys are positive this unit is better then all the others i mentioned? thanks.


----------



## wareya

It has a lowish max tracking speed but it's still the king of latency for some reason when you overclock your OS's USB polling rate.


----------



## psyside

Thanks dude. Unfortunately i cant order it, long story....









So im down to this ones, please advise.

Strom-Spawn-Gaming-Mouse-3500dpi

CoolerMaster Gaming Alcor Alcor Optical Mouse

Genius-gaming-mouse-Death-taker

Genius-gaming-mouse-Maurus-X

SteelSeries Kinzu V3

Logitech Optical G100s

Thanks.

My priority....

Precision, wheel quality, comfort, build quality,


----------



## Izidekas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Izidekas*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Palm
> *What's your sensitivity?* Not sure, 600 i think. 1.2 on csgo
> *What's your maximum budget?* 30-50euro could be great
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Thumb buttons would be great. Ant the ones that regulate DPI, apart from that i'm okey
> *What games do you play?* Csgo moustly. 3-4h daily
> *Do you mind about prediction?* mm what?
> *Other relevant information:* Had been using M6900 for around 4-5 years and that mouse was great. The size, the grip, the from of it, but now the left button starting to fail. By the way, i think my arms are medium size


Bumpity ;/


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Izidekas*
> 
> Bumpity ;/


Razer death adder, zowie ec1/2a and mionix castor.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Xornet 2


----------



## Nitrogannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nitrogannex*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Modified Fingertip. The ball of my hand rests on the arch of the mouse.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400-800 dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100 but less is better
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> A few Side buttons
> 
> What games do you play?
> TF2 and RO2 mainly.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably none, but if a mouse fits my needs perfectly in other areas, I'll deal with it.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I have very large hands
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Plug and Play is Nice, as is a Finish that resists dirt. Metal would be superb, I just don't want something that feels cheap


Bumping


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nitrogannex*
> 
> Bumping


Zowie FK1 definitely.


----------



## Zyther

What's your grip style?
Claw

What's your sensitivity?
Low

What's your maximum budget?
No budget









Do you want additional buttons?
at least the side back and forth

What games do you play?
CS:GO, Battlefront, Overwatch.

Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably none

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Prefer a non gloss finish


----------



## redliner

hey guys, ive been making do with a logitech g700 wired/wireless mouse for a number of years now and im not sure if its starting to wear out or im just starting to notice the acceleration or how bad it is at tracking, but i feel like it is causing my aim to suffer in game. ive been reading up alot and watching reviews of mice and i feel like the mionix naos 7000 may be my choice for a replacement, but since no stores here in canada sell it i cant get a hands on or return it if i dont like it so i thought i would ask for your opinions on what i should get before i buy. i can also buy it right now on massdrop.com for 70$ shipped, instead of 100$ shipped from amazon so it does have that going for it right now for me as well.

What's your grip style?
palm

What's your sensitivity?
6/11 in windows with 1600DPI on mouse

What's your maximum budget?
100$ (can go a little over if its worth it)

Do you want additional buttons?
scroll wheel click and 2 thumb buttons (dont need/want too many extra buttons i wont use getting in my way)

What games do you play?
FPS primarily, 3rd person shooters/adventure, simulation, a little league of legends

Do you mind about prediction?
i dont want any prediction/acceleration, i want the mouse to be as accurate to my exact hand movement as possible

Other relevant information:
im a righty with large (long and wide) hands, so looking for a larger, very ergonomic right handed mouse. im used to using this g700 which is pretty heavy, im fine with going to a much lighter mouse, but it would be nice to have some adjustable weights to fine tune things, this is the one thing the naos 7000 doesnt have. i like the idea of a braided cord as long as its not a cheap one so it doesnt fray or isnt too stiff. looking for the finish to be matte/grippy for the most part, not glossy, but also not gritty like holding sandpaper. also ideally the right and left mouse buttons should be concave at least to some degree to hold my fingers, on my g700 they are completely flat and it drives me nuts, my fingers always feel like they are sliding off. oh and no laser mice!

thanks for the advice in advance


----------



## grahu

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
Low (400dpi, 2.25 sensitivity in cs go)
What's your maximum budget?
About 60$
Do you want additional buttons?
Nope, but I don't mind 2 side buttons.
What games do you play?
Counter Strike Global Offensive
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want any prediction.
Other relevant information:
I used Razer Deathadder, Steelseries Rival and Zowie FK. I liked the shape of Deathadder, but it wasn't perfect. It had very bad coating and it was good size for my hand. Rival had good but not perfect coating and it was too big. Zowie FK was too flat. Maybe those experiences with different mice will help you finding perfect mouse for me. I don't mind if mouse is ambidextrous or ergonomic, but I don't want flat ambi mouse like Zowie FK. Can't remember other impressions about FK. I want good coating, can't tell which I like the most, because I didn't test enough mice but Deathadder coating was worst mouse coating I ever touched. I was considering to buy:

FinalMouse
SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Zowie EC2-A
Logitech G402
Zowie ZA12

I will appreciate if you recommend other mice. Sorry for bad English.


----------



## luckyduck

I am looking for a mouse that has a place to rest my pinky instead of letting it drag on my mouse pad. Lately this has been super uncomfortable for me. Currently Im using a logitech g500s and i love it, but it is either 2 small, or doesn't fit my hand right. I've thought about an upright mouse, but I don't know if i want to go that direction yet.


----------



## Nitrogannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Zowie FK1 definitely.


What about a R.A.T. Te?


----------



## redliner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luckyduck*
> 
> I am looking for a mouse that has a place to rest my pinky instead of letting it drag on my mouse pad. Lately this has been super uncomfortable for me. Currently Im using a logitech g500s and i love it, but it is either 2 small, or doesn't fit my hand right. I've thought about an upright mouse, but I don't know if i want to go that direction yet.


check out the mionix naos series, first mouse ive seen with a rest for your pinky and ring finger and you can get them as laser or optical (the optical sensor in the naos 7000 is supposed to be really good). i dont have one yet but am planning to buy soon, sorry if that doesnt help you, but at least it gives you something to look at if you havent seen them already.


----------



## psyside

Guys, SGM-2005-KLOW1 Gaming Alcor vs Storm Spawn?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Guys, SGM-2005-KLOW1 Gaming Alcor vs Storm Spawn?


Neither. Get Xornet 2 instead








Or wait for their Spawn refresh if it ever happens.


----------



## psyside

Thanks rep +

Problem being, Xornet 2 is not available where i live, and wasn't it more expensive or i'm wrong?


----------



## Cipri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> you're looking for a pretty small mouse for palm grip. Only options I know of would be: Zowie EC2-A, The Ninox Aurora, Logitech G300s and Zowie ZA13 . Zowie ZA and EC2-A are around 120mm length and Ninox Aurora and G300s are around 117-118mm if I remember correctly. It would also help if you could tell about your hand size. Forgot to mention that then there's also Roccat Kone Pure (Military) which is pretty small mouse.


I pick the G300S







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 is not a palm grip mouse unless you're a tiny person with ~13cm hands


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 is not a palm grip mouse unless you're a tiny person with ~13cm hands


My hands are 1 mm in length; can I palm this mouse?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

With tape you probably could


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Guys, SGM-2005-KLOW1 Gaming Alcor vs Storm Spawn?


Alcor can be good with 2.2.1 fw, depends on your grip tho.

Also 500th page hello.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 is not a palm grip mouse unless you're a tiny person with ~13cm hands


Then again maybe Logitech thought that designing such a small mouse, would suit Girl-Gamers instead?

Most logical move by them is to capture part of the female brigade to help boost their future product lines (please I'm not having a joke here or being sarcastic).

Something to think about







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Cute gamer girls with assets+Logitech mice=Profit


----------



## Zyther

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zyther*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> Low
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> No budget
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> at least the side back and forth
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO, Battlefront, Overwatch.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably none
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Prefer a non gloss finish


bump, could go a goss finish, as long as it doesnt get grimmy easy, the death adder 3.5 that had the gloss sides used to get grimmy?


----------



## Turbine

Hello, can I get some mouse buying advice as well please?

*1. What's your grip style?*
I'm using a Rapoo N3600. Grip style is between fingertip and claw grip. My hands are little too.



*2. What's your sensitivity?*
Up to 2000 dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Don't have a maximum budget

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
5 buttons are enough

*5. What games do you play?*
FPS and simulators

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Don't even know what this is

*7. Other relevant information:*
It needs to be a smaller than average USB mouse. My current one is 108 x 64 x 36 mm big, which seems perfect.
I just like to have a mouse in a better material quality.

Thanks


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turbine*
> 
> Hello, can I get some mouse buying advice as well please?
> 
> It needs to be a smaller than average USB mouse. My current one is 108 x 64 x 36 mm big, which seems perfect.
> I just like to have a mouse in a better material quality.
> 
> Thanks


I'd take a look at the Ninox Aurora, its DPI steps are 400-800-1600-3200-4000. The way the back of the mouse is shaped makes it sit very tightly into the palm for most grip types as well as weighing only 72grams and still having side buttons.


----------



## Turbine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> I'd take a look at the Ninox Aurora ..


This mouse looks awesome, thank you very much!


----------



## Cipri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 is not a palm grip mouse unless you're a tiny person with ~13cm hands


~ 17 - 18 cm


----------



## Vlada011

CORSAIR use Japan OMRON keys for M65 or China?
Only that I want to know nothing else. Because that's two different world.

This is and China OMRON...










Original Japan OMRON










As you see and on first look Japan look better compare to China crap.
This is inside difference...

Bottom is ORIGINAL JAPAN OMRON









I would not be surprised to CORSAIR use China keys who stole glory of original switches and maybe are better than cheap junk but are completely something different than Omron used before. Because of that when someone say OMRON you should pay attention. I didn't know that CHINA Omron exist at all.
And when I decide to take a look some mouse guy told me to pay attention and show me pictures and topic where someone explain differences and that after long use China Omron look bad compare to origina Japan Omron.

Probably some of brands advertised their mouse made by best hardware with famous Omron keys and use China made Omron. Imagine you buy mouse with China Omron and few additional real Japan Omron's and if you replace them you lose warranty.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Dexin Corsair Vengeance M65?



Typical d2fc-7n fare.


----------



## awote

Why are those Japan OMRON keys better?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awote*
> 
> Why are those Japan OMRON keys better?


They are the same but the Japanese ones go through a more rigorous sorting process so they are generally of a high quality.


----------



## awote

That sounds nice, is there a mouse to try them or do we have to solder them?


----------



## grahu

Hello, can someone suggest me a mouse? My post is on the end of page 498 and no one answered it. Sorry for bothering.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahu*
> 
> Hello, can someone suggest me a mouse? My post is on the end of page 498 and no one answered it. Sorry for bothering.


From the ones you listed, I'd go with the G402. Had it for some time, didn't like the mwhee. It's not bad, I just don't prefer that kind of wheels. Otherwise it was nice. Palming it might work for you. Other than that you may consider Roccat KPM. Had a KPO in the past. Only downside it was a bit too small for me. May or may not work for you. I'm no fortunte teller as these things are very personal.


----------



## awote

Grahu it seems you allready know what to look for, you only listed good mice.
I would take the g402 because it has great ergonomic a good sensor and the best price-performance.
The wheel will get better after some time of use.


----------



## TburdzZ

Hello My Name is Thomas I am new to overclock.net but am loving all the great info on here already. Now on to the point

What's your grip style?


http://imgur.com/t4PYZ

What's your sensitivity?400 dpi 2.1 in csgo so its low
What's your maximum budget? idc ill pay whatever it takes but try to keep it cheap but its no big deal.
Do you want additional buttons? I need 2 thumb buttons
What games do you play? I play hardcore casual h1z1 cities skylines but I want an fps mouse.
Do you mind about prediction?Want as little as possible.
Other relevant information:

- want it to be light as possible but dont limit suggestions based on this alone.

-500hz or more

-please dont say anything by razer after my 3rd deathadder in 1/2 years i decided i was done with them

Mice I have already had and dont like so please dont suggest these.

Logitech g502 g400s

Finalmouse 2015

Steelseries rival 300 and sensi

Corsair m45

deathadder chroma

Thanks SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much For your time- Thomas


----------



## Melan

Take a look at Roccat KPM.


----------



## tatmMRKIV

What good cmice have those omcron switches in them? does the sensei wireless have them?


----------



## Melan

A lot of mice have omron switches. Easier to list what doesn't. As far as I know Steelseries use either omrons or their own switches (which could be rebranded omrons).


----------



## tatmMRKIV

then what has japan omrons?(is what I meant)


----------



## Melan

Well, my decade old microsoft ball mouse has japanese D2F-01F switches by default. But today, I guess pretty much everyone is using chinese since they are cheaper and not exactly any worse.


----------



## tatmMRKIV

My rival has steelseries logos from internet pics.
I need a new mouse. switches are fine.

Any comparisons for omron switches vs steel series?
can't find anything...


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tatmMRKIV*
> 
> My rival has steelseries logos from internet pics.
> I need a new mouse. switches are fine.
> 
> Any comparisons for omron switches vs steel series?
> can't find anything...


SS switches are like mushy TTC switches and feel very hollow. Omrons are significantly more clicky with more defined feel and sound.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Should I buy an eVGA x5 if it's on sale for $30? Or have there been lower prices?


----------



## nircc

What's your grip style?
Palm and a claw/palm hybrid
What's your sensitivity?
Usually around 1-1.5
What's your maximum budget?
70usd
Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons is a must for games/browsing
What games do you play?
Thw witcher 3/wildstar/fallout 4/old fps games
Do you mind about prediction?
I dont want any
Other -
My g303 died and the things i hated about it were-too small , main buttons too stiff made me miss click
Im looking for a nice mouse that for right hand/good coat/not too stiff buttons/good shape maybe like the da?but not too heavy/very good sensor/software and im using a roccat hiro pad if it matters.i can buy new pad if it really worth
Mice i was thinking of-roccat kone xtd/mionix castor/ss rival or sensei/da chroma or nagga chroma for mmos also the naga being wireless sound cool !
Its must be a mouse tgat amazon sells


----------



## grahu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> From the ones you listed, I'd go with the G402. Had it for some time, didn't like the mwhee. It's not bad, I just don't prefer that kind of wheels. Otherwise it was nice. Palming it might work for you. Other than that you may consider Roccat KPM. Had a KPO in the past. Only downside it was a bit too small for me. May or may not work for you. I'm no fortunte teller as these things are very personal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awote*
> 
> Grahu it seems you allready know what to look for, you only listed good mice.
> I would take the g402 because it has great ergonomic a good sensor and the best price-performance.
> The wheel will get better after some time of use.


Thanks for help. Is Logitech G402 bigger than Deathadder? Is it any simillar to MX518 in terms of shape? I wanted something little bit smaller. Deathadder fits my hand, but it feels kinda massive. Tomorrow I'll probably test my friend's Zowie FK1 once again so I will figure out if ambidextrous shape is for me. Roccat mice which hza mentioned have interesting size, but really weird shape - I'm not interested with them.


----------



## Aph-

what would be the best fps mouse at the moment with the best sensor, click latency and shape?
2 sidebuttos would be optimal but I dont need them that much also a small size would be nice because of my small hands but big mice like g400 are still fine


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aph-*
> 
> what would be the best fps mouse at the moment with the best sensor, click latency and shape?
> 2 sidebuttos would be optimal but I dont need them that much also a small size would be nice because of my small hands but big mice like g400 are still fine


G303 tho if you get a rattling mouse you should RMA the mouse immediately. Also if the shape isn't comfortable for you, you should just return it and get a different mouse before you get "G303 bricks my hand but I still use cause 3366" syndrome.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 tho if you get a rattling mouse you should RMA the mouse immediately. Also if the shape isn't comfortable for you, you should just return it and get a different mouse before you get *"G303 bricks my hand but I still use cause 3366" syndrome*.


You shouldn't be talking about this. Pretty much any sane person will do this by default.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

But the sensor feels so good when its not on a silicone pad


----------



## Melan

And that's why you're no different from "overninethousand DPI" crowd.


----------



## Vlada011

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> They are the same but the Japanese ones go through a more rigorous sorting process so they are generally of a high quality.


Normal man even without any sign on them will recognize different quality keys.
Maybe and plastic is different, maybe even metal. But I hear that Japan last much longer and China fall apart after few years.
But all of them are advertised as Omron and steal glory from switches used 80th or 90th...they work and today, absolutely same. I think no more single good and quality thing without China's lower quality replica... Jesus.
Looks like ASUS give some original switches with Gladius, they are not so expensive, maybe 1-2-3 euro per switche... but people should get real thing. That's nice move example.


----------



## Aelius

I'm having trouble finding much in the way of _lightweight_ mouses with 8 or more buttons (but not so many buttons that your thumb rests on a grid of buttons like with the Razer Naga or Logitech G600.) Moreover, I'm having difficulty finding a good resource for which mouses have excellent sensors and build quality. I'm afraid to look at mouses from Razer, Roccat, Saitek (R.A.T. series), etc. because I'm not familiar with those brands' reputation for quality. The R.A.T.'s could be of Transformer-quality build or could fall apart in a week, for all I know. These days too many consumer products are constructed out of cheap crap just to lower the price slightly and reap more sales from the ignorant masses who don't know any better. That's what I'm trying to avoid here.

Suggestions?

What's your grip style?
*Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity?
*~1200 DPI*
What's your maximum budget?
*No maximum limit; I want the best of the best*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Yes, there must be at least 9 buttons*
What games do you play?
*All*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes, f*** prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, and all that nonsense*
Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*It shouldn't be heavier than about 110g, must be excellent build quality and excellent sensors, must have good grip and not slick plastic.*


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aelius*
> 
> I'm having trouble finding much in the way of mouses with >8 buttons, but not so much that your thumb rests on a grid of buttons like with the Razer Naga or Logitech G600. Moreover, I'm having difficulty finding a good resource for which mouses have excellent sensors and build quality. I'm afraid to look at mouses from Razer, Roccat, Saitek (R.A.T. series), etc. because I'm not familiar with those brands' reputation for quality. The R.A.T.'s could be of Transformer-quality build or could fall apart in a week, for all I know. These days too many consumer products are constructed out of cheap crap just to lower the price slightly and reap more sales from the ignorant masses who don't know any better. That's what I'm trying to avoid here.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *~1200 DPI*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *No maximum limit; I want the best of the best*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Yes, there must be at least 9 buttons*
> What games do you play?
> *All*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Yes, f*** prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, and all that nonsense*
> Other relevant information: Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> *It shouldn't be heavier than about 120g, must be excellent build quality and excellent sensors*


G402


----------



## Aelius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G402


It seems pretty similar to the G400s I already use, although the buttons are placed differently. I think the weight is the same too. Any other differences? The G*5*02 has more buttons, but it's 12% heavier. I don't know if that's too heavy for a fingertip grip.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aelius*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G402
> 
> 
> 
> It seems pretty similar to the G400s I already use, although the buttons are placed differently. I think the weight is the same too. Any other differences? The G*5*02 has more buttons, but it's 12% heavier. I don't know if that's too heavy for a fingertip grip.
Click to expand...

The G402 is lighter than the G400S. The only issue is the thick cable which you coild easily replace with a more flexible one. The G502 is 12% heavier but also a bit smaller than the G402. It is denser so it will "feel" heavier than the numbers suggest. I honestly don't think a fingertip grip with a G502 is a good idea unless you want to do a weight reduction mod or something


----------



## HungryPillow

What's your grip style?
*Mainly claw sometimes claw/palm hybrid*
What's your sensitivity?
*1500-2000dpi*
What's your maximum budget?
*No budget*
Do you want additional buttons?
*As long as it has a mouse wheel click and a forward/back button I'm good*
What games do you play?
*Diablo 3, Hearthstone, various games on Steam*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Yes, I don't want prediction*
Other relevant information:
*I have largish hands that measure about length 21cm and width 10cm and I'm having trouble finding a mouse that really just fits. There's always something that doesn't quite fit with every mouse I try so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on something I have to try or I'm missing out on. I don't want wireless.

I own the following mice and I'm wondering if there is something I haven't tried that I really should. I think I prefer optical sensors but I'm open to suggestions, thanks!*

Mionix NAOS 5000
Mionix Avior 7000
Zowie FK1
Roccat Kone XTD
Roccat Kone Pure Military
Logitech G502
Logitech G9x (Died)
Razer DeathAdder (Died)


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The G402 is lighter than the G400S. The only issue is the thick cable which you coild easily replace with a more flexible one. The G502 is 12% heavier but also a bit smaller than the G402. It is denser so it will "feel" heavier than the numbers suggest. I honestly don't think a fingertip grip with a G502 is a good idea unless you want to do a weight reduction mod or something


To be honest, G502 fingertip grip feels pretty good. I always thought I have to palm it, but claw or fingertip grips are way more comfortable on G502 (even though I don't use it on hard surface). Might be 'only' me though.


----------



## darisito

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip Grip

*What's your sensitivity?*
Currently 1750 DPI (can adjust a bit little bit +/- 100 DPI) - everything else on standard, no acc. etc.

*What's your maximum budget?*
80€

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Doesn't matter

*What games do you play?*
RTS, MMORPG, no FPS

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes, no prediction please

*Other relevant information:*

Currently using Roccat Lua, which is pretty small compared to anything else, and I find it stil too "long", since my clicking fingers rest 3-4cm before the end of the buttons. Also, the grip is really not good for fingertipgrip, since I have to pressure it quite a bit with my thumb button and it feels constantly slippery. Still, it's the best mouse I've encountered so far.

*Input anything else you want*
Don't recommend me anything from Steelseries, Razer or Roccat since I've had them all and nothing ever fitted perfectly and almost all of them are way too big (esp. the often recommended Abyssus).
I've come to the conclusion that probably some secret tipp from a "normal" Logitech mouse might be what I'm looking for, but they feature only the most recent stuff on their website and I have no real insight in older items.

Would appreciate it very much!


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darisito*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip Grip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Currently 1750 DPI (can adjust a bit little bit +/- 100 DPI) - everything else on standard, no acc. etc.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 80€
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Doesn't matter
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> RTS, MMORPG, no FPS
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes, no prediction please
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Currently using Roccat Lua, which is pretty small compared to anything else, and I find it stil too "long", since my clicking fingers rest 3-4cm before the end of the buttons. Also, the grip is really not good for fingertipgrip, since I have to pressure it quite a bit with my thumb button and it feels constantly slippery. Still, it's the best mouse I've encountered so far.
> 
> *Input anything else you want*
> Don't recommend me anything from Steelseries, Razer or Roccat since I've had them all and nothing ever fitted perfectly and almost all of them are way too big (esp. the often recommended Abyssus).
> I've come to the conclusion that probably some secret tipp from a "normal" Logitech mouse might be what I'm looking for, but they feature only the most recent stuff on their website and I have no real insight in older items.
> 
> Would appreciate it very much!


G100s hands down.

You could also consider the Abyssus 2014 (vastly different from the old Abyssus) or eVGA X5 optical.


----------



## darisito

Quote:


> G100s hands down.
> 
> You could also consider the Abyssus 2014 (vastly different from the old Abyssus) or eVGA X5 optical.


Thanks for your answer, appreciate it. Unfortunately the g100s and abyssus (got it laying herey it's way too huge and ungrippy) don't fit at all. Both too big. Do is the x5 optical, although this one comes closer to what I'm looking for. Still too big though


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darisito*
> 
> Thanks for your answer, appreciate it. Unfortunately the g100s and abyssus (got it laying herey it's way too huge and ungrippy) don't fit at all. Both too big. Do is the x5 optical, although this one comes closer to what I'm looking for. Still too big though


I suppose you could give the Zealot Jr. a shot.


----------



## darisito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I suppose you could give the Zealot Jr. a shot.


Wow, I have to do some research, but this looks really good. Do you know any place in Europe where one might buy this? Thanks!

Edit: Can't even order it to my country (Germany) from Amazon.com


----------



## TburdzZ

My grip style is Palm with my wrist resting on mouse pad

Sense is 400 dpi

Budget is unlimited

One button needed

I play hardcore Csgo and casual h1z1

No prediction if possible

I have used
Razer da and I don't want anything from razer after I went through 3 da 2013 in 1/12 years
Steelseries rival 300 and sensi
Logitech g502
Logitech g400s
Finalmouse 2015

I want a mouse around 100g so pretty light give or take 10.

Want it to be as precise as possible.
I am looking at the rival 100 and thinking of purchasing what are you guys thoughts on the sensor in that bad boi
Thanks


----------



## Brightmist

Get EC1-A or EC2-A.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TburdzZ*
> 
> My grip style is Palm with my wrist resting on mouse pad
> 
> Sense is 400 dpi
> 
> Budget is unlimited
> 
> One button needed
> 
> I play hardcore Csgo and casual h1z1
> 
> No prediction if possible
> 
> I have used
> Razer da and I don't want anything from razer after I went through 3 da 2013 in 1/12 years
> Steelseries rival 300 and sensi
> Logitech g502
> Logitech g400s
> Finalmouse 2015
> 
> I want a mouse around 100g so pretty light give or take 10.
> 
> Want it to be as precise as possible.
> I am looking at the rival 100 and thinking of purchasing what are you guys thoughts on the sensor in that bad boi
> Thanks


Dont buy Rival 100


----------



## asp93

my grip is palm/hybrid palm claw

sens 800dpi

budget ~$50

don't need side buttons

i play dota2 and csgo

currently using g402, want to try other shape
used in past: cm storm recon, g100s, g502, g400, kinzu v1, diamondback 3g

looking for ss rival, evga torq x5, cm storm alcor, da13 and corsair m45, wich will be better in terms of smoothing and button latency? g303 and mionix avior are not available in my country


----------



## pnoozi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Dont buy Rival 100


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TburdzZ*
> 
> My grip style is Palm with my wrist resting on mouse pad
> 
> Sense is 400 dpi
> 
> Budget is unlimited
> 
> One button needed
> 
> I play hardcore Csgo and casual h1z1
> 
> No prediction if possible
> 
> I have used
> Razer da and I don't want anything from razer after I went through 3 da 2013 in 1/12 years
> Steelseries rival 300 and sensi
> Logitech g502
> Logitech g400s
> Finalmouse 2015
> 
> I want a mouse around 100g so pretty light give or take 10.
> 
> Want it to be as precise as possible.
> I am looking at the rival 100 and thinking of purchasing what are you guys thoughts on the sensor in that bad boi
> Thanks


I have the Rival 100 and absolutely love it for CSGO. Everyone's different. Personally I think it's the best mouse I've ever owned, considering my needs (CSGO, smaller hands, low sens).


----------



## fmlp

What's your grip style?
Fingertip Grip

What's your sensitivity?
400dpi

What's your maximum budget?
50€

Do you want additional buttons?
Doesn't matter

What games do you play?
CS GO, DOTA 2, Heroes of the storm

Do you mind about prediction?
YES, please just take all of that stuff in front of me!

Other relevant information:
ATM i use a4tech x7 in comfort terms it's alright but sometimes the laser fails.

Input anything else you want
I don't care about brands, i just want a mouse wich I can use for more than 2 years and is still working, i though about CM alcor but 400dpi just made me look to something else


----------



## HungryPillow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HungryPillow*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Mainly claw sometimes claw/palm hybrid*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *1500-2000dpi*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *No budget*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *As long as it has a mouse wheel click and a forward/back button I'm good*
> What games do you play?
> *Diablo 3, Hearthstone, various games on Steam*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Yes, I don't want prediction*
> Other relevant information:
> *I have largish hands that measure about length 21cm and width 10cm and I'm having trouble finding a mouse that really just fits. There's always something that doesn't quite fit with every mouse I try so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on something I have to try or I'm missing out on. I don't want wireless.
> 
> I own the following mice and I'm wondering if there is something I haven't tried that I really should. I think I prefer optical sensors but I'm open to suggestions, thanks!*
> 
> Mionix NAOS 5000
> Mionix Avior 7000
> Zowie FK1
> Roccat Kone XTD
> Roccat Kone Pure Military
> Logitech G502
> Logitech G9x (Died)
> Razer DeathAdder (Died)


Quoting for a new page and hopefully some help







Is there something like the Roccat Kone Pure Military but for bigger hands? I think that one was my favorite so far but my hands hurt after using it for a while...


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HungryPillow*
> 
> Quoting for a new page and hopefully some help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there something like the Roccat Kone Pure Military but for bigger hands? I think that one was my favorite so far but my hands hurt after using it for a while...


Fellow 21cm guy here. I see you have the XTD, what's your issue with it? I ask because I have one as well and the shape/weight just didn't work for me in-game (and you want something larger like the KPM, which the XTD essentially is). Overall, I found that I prefer ambi mice...the problem is there aren't many for large hands. I currently use a Hori Edge 101 which I'm digging so far. I feel your pain tho, I've been thru most of the mice you own and it took awhile to find something suitable.


----------



## HungryPillow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Fellow 21cm guy here. I see you have the XTD, what's your issue with it? I ask because I have one as well and the shape/weight just didn't work for me in-game (and you want something larger like the KPM, which the XTD essentially is). Overall, I found that I prefer ambi mice...the problem is there aren't many for large hands. I currently use a Hori Edge 101 which I'm digging so far. I feel your pain tho, I've been thru most of the mice you own and it took awhile to find something suitable.


The Kone XTD shape was good but my right click button had some issues where it felt like it was "stuck" and I hated how the scroll wheel click felt. The scroll wheel click of the KPM in comparison was amazing. I guess I could try the XTD Optical but I'm a little worried about running into the same issues (unless they changed the button switches?) The other mouse I was considering would be the Zowie ZA11.

I read your Hori Edge review and it's good to hear the shape fits well. I didn't even know they made mice... I do have their Fighting Edge joystick for my fighting games and love it so maybe it's worth considering as well.


----------



## grahu

Hello again, I removed some mice from my list and here is what i'm considering:

*FinalMouse
SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Zowie ZA12
FinalMouse Ambidextrous* (coming in near future)

Also, is Sensei's sensor any good? Is it big difference between Sensei's and Avago 3310 sensor? As I said before, my deathadder feels huge, although it is good size for my hand. I don't like this curve to the right which you can see on the bottom of the mouse.
So, which one should I pick? If you didn't see my first post - http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4970#post_24579223


----------



## xIC3x

I'm looking for a new mouse, I need a spare just in case if my old G400 dies again. Last time I had to use a Tesco brand mouse, it was horrible...

So, I'm a big fan of the MLT04, but on some CS:GO leagues I play we're not allowed to run Windows in Test Mode







Now, I know there're motherboards which have inbuilt BIOS USB Overclocking features where you can set your desired refresh rate for a specific port. But I don't want to do that, I want to try something newer/fresh'er.

What's your grip style?
Hybrid-Mixture: Claw & Palm
What's your sensitivity?
CS:GO 1920x1080 1.7 in-game (m_rawinput 1), 400dpi 500hz. I use 800dpi on desktop.
What's your maximum budget?
around £50?
Do you want additional buttons?
2 on the left would be nice, but they're not mandatory
What games do you play?
CS:GO mainly, I don't even have time to play anything else.








Do you mind about prediction?
I don't remember any of my mice having prediction/angle snapping, so I would rather not have it unless its nothing extreme.
Other relevant information:
*Mandatory:* Low Weight, PixArt 3988 sensor (Unless something *RAW* better is out there), ambidextrous shape, matt finish.
*Nice-to-have:* Fairly low button activation force, onboard memory,

My hands are fairly big, 19.5cm from my wrist to middle finger.


----------



## Brightmist

Go for Zowie ZA11 I guess.


----------



## xIC3x

I absolutely hate the 3310 sensor







I'm mainly interested and want to try out a mouse with 3988 sensor...


----------



## Brightmist

DeathAdder I guess, it's not ambi tho.

You can also try Cougar 550m but it's said that it has a ton of click delay.

Edit. There's also Gladius but it's not ambi either and also has a bit of click delay I think.


----------



## xIC3x

It doesn't have to be a proper 'ambi' mouse, as long as its not as ergo as Naos 7000 or the Ikari (Strangely I actually liked that shape, but not the Naos'es).

I need a good lightweight mouse mainly for FPS games such as CS:GO, the mouse plays a big part in this game so it needs to be as accurate as possible without any click delays...


----------



## Brightmist

3988/3310/3090/3366 are all accurate enough for CS:GO.

When you make 3988 mandatory, you pretty much limit your options to a handful of mice, feel free to check this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list/0_30


----------



## xIC3x

The feel of 3310 is weird, I can feel like something was smoothing out my moves and that annoys me. I'm a fairly low sens player so I'm more sensitive to how the sensor feels... I was thinking of trying 3366 but some people wrote that the feel is similiar to the 3310, but even if I did go for it there's not much choice mouse wise. I'm only limited to Logitech and their quality of mouses has dropped looking back at the g402...









Edit

The main things the mouse has to have are: 3988 sensor, Low Click delay and fairly ambi shape. But something along the lines of DA or Gladius is ok, just nothing crazy like Mionix Naos etc.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> The feel of 3310 is weird, I can feel like something was smoothing out my moves and that annoys me. I'm a fairly low sens player so I'm more sensitive to how the sensor feels... I was thinking of trying 3366 but some people wrote that the feel is similiar to the 3310, but even if I did go for it there's not much choice mouse wise. I'm only limited to Logitech and their quality of mouses has dropped looking back at the g402...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit
> 
> The main things the mouse has to have are: 3988 sensor, Low Click delay and fairly ambi shape. But something along the lines of DA or Gladius is ok, just nothing crazy like Mionix Naos etc.


Why not the 3090? I myself find it hard to use the 3010 as something feels very filtered about it, but a fair amount of the 3090 mice I've used feel better in that regard. I do wanna say though that the Naos 7000 I used had a 3010 and was very well implemented imo (vs Zowie EC-A, Rival) it didn't at all feel like a 3010.


----------



## xIC3x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Why not the 3090? I myself find it hard to use the 3010 as something feels very filtered about it, but a fair amount of the 3090 mice I've used feel better in that regard. I do wanna say though that the Naos 7000 I used had a 3010 and was very well implemented imo (vs Zowie EC-A, Rival) it didn't at all feel like a 3010.


I had a similiar feeling about the Naos compared to FK1, it felt different even though it was exactly the same 3310 sensor. But I would like to try 3988, now the question is what mouse, I'm not sure if EVGA X5 wouldn't be too small.

I would like the mouse to have pixart 3988, be lightweight and reasonably shaped as close to ambi as possible..


----------



## aerowalk30

If you liked the Naos sensor you should maybe try one of their ambi line Avior or Castor, even if it is a 3310. 3988 sensor-ed mice are kinda few and far between and it would just come down to you knowing what shape/size you're comfortable using.

In general though its more about the implementation of the sensor itself that makes or breaks it and think its silly to limit yourself to only one sensor when theres so many more factors coming into play when picking a mouse.


----------



## xIC3x

I didn't say I liked it, it was ok'ish... nothing special. It still had some kind of smoothing. But than again all mouses I tested with 3310 had the same kind of feeling in a way.

My hand is fairly big, well my fingers are long, from wrist to the tip of my middle finger its 19.5cm



Even though I really like the G400 and for 19 quid I paid, it was a steal IMHO. I dislike the shape, even when used daily I always hold it differently and change throughout the gameplay as it forces a certain grip on you...

I tried Steelseries Xai when I played some CS over at my friends, although I loved the shape its hard to have an opinion on a mouse which you used for 20-30 minutes. Its just like with cars, you need to own it for at least 7 days to see if you like it or not...


----------



## aerowalk30

You could try the Sensei Raw (Xai shape = Sensei), feels very snappy/precise and the whole laser accel thing is way over-blown. I use one as a just an every day mouse until I get in-game then its back to the MLT04 but prior to that I used it for about 6 months for competitive play and its a solid mouse.


----------



## grahu

I think you should give FinalMouse a try. They are working on new ambidextrous mouse and I'm also intrested in buying. It has Pixart 3310, but people say it's really "raw" and precise. Also, it's only 74 grams.


----------



## xIC3x

My IE3.0 died







... I changed the cable but nothing, still this mouse survived for so long that I can't even remember when I bought it. It was suppose to be a backup, but it replaced my main.
















No more 3310, I'm sick of that sensor, no laser mouses either and NO SteelSeries products... nope









I've just missed a deal on the Gladius for £38.99


----------



## j6k4

Hi guys,








I'm looking for some suggestions on which mouse to buy. I have been using a DA:BE for a long time now, but I just feel like I it's time for a smaller, lighter mouse which also has a good sensor, but lower lod, better switches and better scrollwheel. See list for more details.

*What's your grip style?* Claw/Palm hybrid
*What's your sensitivity?* ~30cm/12inches for a 360turn ingame playing on a 1080 res, using ~400DPI in desktop
*What's your maximum budget?* £100
*Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, 2 additional side buttons.
*What games do you play?* Mostly FPS titles & League, precisely COD4, COD2, CSGO, LoL, Rust..
*Do you mind about prediction?* Don't want prediction!
*LOD:* Low please, Used DA:BA which has a high LOD something I didn't really like
*Weight* On the lighter side <100g
*Size* Medium - small
*What mousepad you use?* black QCK Heavy
*Glossy parts* No glossy sides or tops, only on side buttons if necessary
*Material* something that doesn't collect sweat, DA:BE has a nice coating on top and sides so similar coating I guess
*Shape* not too crazy
*Button activation force* Something that doesn't require too much force to press and register, so that it's easy to fast click, especially when using semi-automatic weapons ingame
*Scrollwheel* 24notch please, basically I want a mouse with good scroll wheel that doesn't skip since I switch weapons with scrollwheel
*What I'm thinking of to buy?* Something like ZOWIE EC2-A ? What do you guys recommend will suit my needs based on what I've listed??


Thanks in advance!


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking for some suggestions on which mouse to buy. I have been using a DA:BE for a long time now, but I just feel like I it's time for a smaller, lighter mouse which also has a good sensor, but lower lod, better switches and better scrollwheel. See list for more details.
> 
> .....................


EC2-A should be a good choice, buttons people complain they are harder and they'll definitely be harder then a DA but imo if you have problems spamming then you should be more worried about the RSI you've apprently got. So I'd recomend the EC2-A ya


----------



## j6k4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> EC2-A should be a good choice, buttons people complain they are harder and they'll definitely be harder then a DA but imo if you have problems spamming then you should be more worried about the RSI you've apprently got. So I'd recomend the EC2-A ya


i dont have problems spamming i just think that some mouse are easier to spam with than others, no?? + I don't think I have RSI either lol
any other suggestions?


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> i dont have problems spamming i just think that some mouse are easier to spam with than others, no?? + I don't think I have RSI either lol
> any other suggestions?


Was making a crack at the people complaining about hard switches in the EC series


----------



## exitc0de

*What's your grip style?* A mix between finger tip and palm grip. Depending on the size of the mouse I either rest my whole palm on the back of the mouse or behind it, my fingers are also slightly raised and not completely resting on the mouse.

*What's your sensitivity?* 450dpi 2 in CS:GO (18inch/360 degrees)

*What's your maximum budget?* £50 (ideally 30-40, I don't mind whether it is used/refurbished if there are no cracks)

*Do you want additional buttons?* Preferably at least 2 side buttons, I never change dpi though.

*What games do you play?* Counter Strike: Global Offensive Competitive (GE) and bhopping/KZ (will use higher sensitivity for these gamemodes), TF2/Overwatch (will use a higher sens for both)

*Do you mind about prediction?* Would prefer no prediction/acceleration of any kind. I'd like the most accurate sensor possible. NOT laser.

*Other relevant information:*

Not glossy finish ideally. I don't want something that gets really sweaty and has to be wiped all the time.
Preferably quite low actuation force but not too low - need to be able to click reasonably fast but not accidentally knife people or shoot.
I don't like the Razer death-adder because I have quite small hands and the bump in the middle of the mouse is uncomfortable.
I currently use the Steelseries Sensei RAW heat orange edition which is a laser mouse but it has acceleration and I would prefer if the sides were rubberised and the actuation force was a little lower, would be nice if there were more pronounced grooves for the clickers on each side for your finger as well. The size however is about right for my hands, I can palm it reasonably well. (I don't like the glossy finish of the mouse. )
I don't mind too much about weight but I would probably prefer a lower weight.
My hands are reasonably small and I'm looking for a medium sized mouse.
I am using the Steelseries QCK+ which I think is 45x40cm. I pick up my mouse quite a lot as well so Ideally not too big a lift off distance and not too heavy.
Want to play CS:GO amateur leagues semi seriously, so the sensor is important.

*Mice I am currently considering:*
Corsair Sabre
Finalmouse 2015 ~ (this is quite expensive for me)
Fnatic Gear Flick G1 (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fnatic-gear-esports-equipment-by-fnatic/#/) - if the sensor in this mouse is good enough this is probably my favourite so far

Thanks in advance,


----------



## xIC3x

Would you guys say that the 3366 is superior to PixArt 3988?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> Would you guys say that the 3366 is superior to PixArt 3988?


Its superior in every possible way. From latency, PCS, precision, jitter, and even dpi e-peen


----------



## xIC3x

What about S3988 vs 3310? I think the 3988 is superior, but that's just from the feel not looking at technical data.









Edit I'm might wait till new FM Ambi comes out or go for the ZA11, I'll just have to get use to 3310 I guess...


----------



## Izidekas

Opinions on zowie fk1?


----------



## yaet

1. What's your grip style?
Typically palm or finger tip

2. What's your sensitivity?

I use 1800 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I like having an extra side button or two, but it's not necessary.

5. What games do you play?

csgo & starcraft 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?

prefer no prediction

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Currently using a deathadder. This is my second one. I do not want a razer product. Both I have used have eventually gone on to have a double click bug.

Honestly, I would prefer something that just straight up works or if it malfunctions, it's obvious immediately so I can RMA it.


----------



## xIC3x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Izidekas*
> 
> Opinions on zowie fk1?


Go with ZA series, less click delay and has a higher hump which most people seem to favour (inc. me).









There're different sizes too, ZA11 is the biggest, ZA12 in-between and ZA13 is tiny.


----------



## g.androider

Hi,

I need a "red-themed" mouse
- no Corsair
- no wireless (means with USB cables attached)
- good for claw and palm grip

I like the G502, very comfortable but I don't like the blue-themed of it.

Thank you


----------



## xIC3x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I need a "red-themed" mouse
> - no Corsair
> - no wireless (means with USB cables attached)
> - good for claw and palm grip
> 
> I like the G502, very comfortable but I don't like the blue-themed of it.
> 
> Thank you


Asus ROG Gladius


----------



## hza

Gladius = attached usb cord


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yaet*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Typically palm or finger tip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> I use 1800 dpi
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I like having an extra side button or two, but it's not necessary.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> csgo & starcraft 2
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> prefer no prediction
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Currently using a deathadder. This is my second one. I do not want a razer product. Both I have used have eventually gone on to have a double click bug.
> 
> Honestly, I would prefer something that just straight up works or if it malfunctions, it's obvious immediately so I can RMA it.


Shape-wise you could like Logitech G402/G502, Roccat Kone Pure Military/Kone XTD Optical or Asus ROG Gladius. Performance-wise all 4 mice should please your needs. Also Kone XTD Optical and Gladius use the same sensor as your DeathAdder does (in case you have a DA 2013/Chroma model).


----------



## mountains

Quote:


> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc



Palm
Mostly use 1600-4000 DPI.
Not important
My old mouse (Logitech G700) had them, but I rarely used them.
League of Legends, MMOs, Diablo 3.
Nope


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mountains*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palm
> Mostly use 1600-4000 DPI.
> Not important
> My old mouse (Logitech G700) had them, but I rarely used them.
> League of Legends, MMOs, Diablo 3.
> Nope
Click to expand...

G402. Hurry m8 its on sale atm. Grab it quick before price increase


----------



## KaneZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mountains*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc



Fingertip-Grip
Around 1200 DPI
100€
Not that important. Forward and back in browser is nice, but far from essential
Starcraft II
I'm not sure, but from what I read I think it kinda sucks for SC2?!
I need a perfectly precise mice which is great for fingertip-grip. Important to note is that I have rather small hands, with 17cm from wrist to the end of my middlefinger.
From what I read so far, Razer Abyssus and Deathadder sound nice, but I heard they break alot. Zowie ECA-2, FK1 and FK2 may be good, but I can't find them anywhere near to test them. Steelseries Kinzu V2 Pro is also on my list. Been using Logitech Mices for about 15 years now, acutally playing with a G500, but it seems to be too large and heavy for fingertip-grip to work good.


----------



## netpsychosis

things i care most: fingertip grip, small, light, wired
things i care less: light cord, low button activation force, cpi>3k, no mouse preditction, would be happy if it would fit my razer device setup in terms of color (black and/or green)

basically im tired of claw grip and razer deathadder since i cant just easily move mouse up and down when im playing rts/moba, and since its heavy i get fatigue when imma show dat apm
mouse primarily for sc2 (and sometimes for dota)
suggest as many as you can since ill probably fail at getting like many of them
*since im from russia, i cant buy zowie mico and cm spawn/xornet*


Spoiler: offtop



pls dont judge for razer


----------



## grahu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaneZ*
> 
> 
> Fingertip-Grip
> Around 1200 DPI
> 100€
> Not that important. Forward and back in browser is nice, but far from essential
> Starcraft II
> I'm not sure, but from what I read I think it kinda sucks for SC2?!
> I need a perfectly precise mice which is great for fingertip-grip. Important to note is that I have rather small hands, with 17cm from wrist to the end of my middlefinger.
> From what I read so far, Razer Abyssus and Deathadder sound nice, but I heard they break alot. Zowie ECA-2, FK1 and FK2 may be good, but I can't find them anywhere near to test them. Steelseries Kinzu V2 Pro is also on my list. Been using Logitech Mices for about 15 years now, acutally playing with a G500, but it seems to be too large and heavy for fingertip-grip to work good.


If you want mouse that last, has good quality and will be your "best friend" for gaming then I do not recommend Razer Deathadder. Also, Deathadder is more palm-claw mouse.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *netpsychosis*
> 
> things i care most: fingertip grip, small, light, wired
> things i care less: light cord, low button activation force, cpi>3k, no mouse preditction, would be happy if it would fit my razer device setup in terms of color (black and/or green)
> 
> basically im tired of claw grip and razer deathadder since i cant just easily move mouse up and down when im playing rts/moba, and since its heavy i get fatigue when imma show dat apm
> mouse primarily for sc2 (and sometimes for dota)
> suggest as many as you can since ill probably fail at getting like many of them
> *since im from russia, i cant buy zowie mico and cm spawn/xornet*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: offtop
> 
> 
> 
> pls dont judge for razer


Maybe Logitech G100s or G302/303? They're rather small mice. 302/303 are known for having a weird shape. Personally I have absolutely no trouble using my 303. To be honest I bought it for the RGB lightning (and to try out myself, if it's really as weird as people say). You can set it to just 1 colour of course. I know the rgb is childish bla bla talk. I just don't care because it's preference, nothing else.


----------



## Fixxxer86

What's your grip style?
Claw, and I have very tiny hands (17cm)
What's your sensitivity?
6/11,800dpi fps / 1200dpi moba
What's your maximum budget?
Don't care
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, it would be nice to have 2 side buttons, and second (but no that important) dpi switches.
What games do you play?
Bf4,lol,sc2,cs
Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably not
Other relevant information:
Low LOD would be nice, cause i lift the mouse a lot while gaming. Matte finish. Nice optical sensor, I'm not a pro gamer, but I do care about quality tracking. I tried lot of mouses, but the abyssus 2013 was very confortable for me, light, nice size, but no side buttons and a so so sensor. My biggest problem is my tinny hands, wich usually doesn't go well with side buttons, my thumb usually can't get to thw second side button in most mouses, I think that the Spawb or Xornet may be a good choice, but it's too wide for my taste I think.

Thank you!


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fixxxer86*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw, and I have very tiny hands (17cm)
> What's your sensitivity?
> 6/11,800dpi fps / 1200dpi moba
> What's your maximum budget?
> Don't care
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, it would be nice to have 2 side buttons, and second (but no that important) dpi switches.
> What games do you play?
> Bf4,lol,sc2,cs
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Preferably not
> Other relevant information:
> Low LOD would be nice, cause i lift the mouse a lot while gaming. Matte finish. Nice optical sensor, I'm not a pro gamer, but I do care about quality tracking. I tried lot of mouses, but the abyssus 2013 was very confortable for me, light, nice size, but no side buttons and a so so sensor. My biggest problem is my tinny hands, wich usually doesn't go well with side buttons, my thumb usually can't get to thw second side button in most mouses, I think that the Spawb or Xornet may be a good choice, but it's too wide for my taste I think.
> 
> Thank you!


I really think the G303 is for you. That suits smaller hands, and has the best sensor on the market, plus those two buttons you ask for.


----------



## Fixxxer86

Yeah, I though that the g303 would be a nice choice, I made some research about g303, roccat kpm, zowie za13, etc. and I think that I can reach the second side button on the g303 while in the other maybe not (I made some distance calculations to compare this, but I'm not totally sure). The only problem is related to shape, because lot of ppl complains about pointy edges. I can't test any mouse because I live in Argentina where all this models are not available (a friend will bring it from amazon.com)

Thanks!









PD: sry for my bad english...


----------



## Bashslash

What's your grip style?
Hybird Claw grip, palm resting on mouse. I use the wrist to aim
What's your sensitivity?
I tend to use the same setting. I play primiraly CS;GO 400 dpi with 2.83 sens (meduim i guess)
What's your maximum budget?
Dont care
Do you want additional buttons?
If my tiny hands can fit it(14-17 cm llong, just a generalization)
What games do you play?
CS:GO primarily
Do you mind about prediction?
I no not want it
Other relevant information:
Used kinzu v2, right click got all mushy and some lag problems. want new mouse


----------



## pilgor

What's your grip style?
Finger tip

What's your sensitivity?
[email protected] 6/11 Windows.(currently using Abyssus Mirror)

What's your maximum budget?
$60-ish CDN

Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary.

What games do you play?
CS:GO primarily

Do you mind about prediction?
I HATE IT

Other relevant information:
Mice I'm considering are; Razer Abyssus 2014, Rival 100 and the Xornet 2. Mice I currently use and switch bewtween often are the Kinzu v2 Pro and a Razer Abyssus Mirror. Don't like the accel on the Kinzu v2 and my Abyssus is getting beat up.


----------



## catalin1122

1. What's your grip style?
Palm
2. What's your sensitivity?
400-600 DPI
3. What's your maximum budget?
100 EUROS
4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes
5. What games do you play?
CS:GO (mainly), Company Of Heroes 2, DayZ, War Thunder.
6. Do you mind about prediction?
I do not want prediction.

Other relevant information:
- My palm is 18 - 19 cm long and 8.5 - 9 cm wide.
- My current mouse is A4Tech Bloody V5 which is ok but I want something better. I like it's weight but I don't mind the new mouse to be less heavy.


----------



## DamyLv

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Hi all







I need your help to figure out what to buy this christmas









1- Fingertip Grip Highsenser
2- No idea :/ always used only poor and cheap oem's
3- Around 50/75 max euros
4- I would like to have a couple of side buttons for my thumb
5- Any kind of game








6- Never tried so I don't know exactly how it feels... However a mouse not following accurately my hand I'm pretty sure it would annoy me

7-Other relevant informations:
No Wireless
Dont' know if it's just Highsenser or something relevant for dpi, but i do very short movements with my current mouse.. i mean in fps and tps i usually set mouse sensibility to around 10-12max cm to do a 180°. I'm also not used to lift from my mousepad


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DamyLv*
> 
> 1- Fingertip Grip Highsenser
> 2- No idea :/ always used only poor and cheap oem's
> 3- Around 50/75 max euros
> 4- I would like to have a couple of side buttons for my thumb
> 5- Any kind of game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6- Never tried so I don't know exactly how it feels... However a mouse not following accurately my hand I'm pretty sure it would annoy me
> 
> 7-Other relevant informations:
> No Wireless
> Dont' know if it's just Highsenser or something relevant for dpi, but i do very short movements with my current mouse.. i mean in fps and tps i usually set mouse sensibility to around 10-12max cm to do a 180°. I'm also not used to lift from my mousepad


Check out the Ninox Aurora, Logitech G100s, Razer Abyssus 2014, or SteelSeries Kinzu V3. Most of these mice are atleast to a degree similar to an office mouse with a higher grader sensor so you should probably look through them and see what you think would suit you the best.


----------



## raucous

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
1) Palm/claw hybrid
2) 800 DPI and 20.5 inches per 360 turn in game
3) Unlimited
4) Two additional side buttons (forward and back)
5) At the moment just Quake Live and Half Life 2 DM
6) Don't really know what this is
7) I have used Deathadders for years (original, black edition and now 2013 model). Other mice I've tried include: CM Storm (disliked), Kana 1 (disliked), Rival (too long) and most recently ECA-2. ECA-2 is close but I still play better with Deathadder.

Other notes: Hand size 17.5 to 18 centimetres, I seem to prefer right-handed ergonomic shape however would be open to trying another ambidextrous mouse, prefer tight side buttons (ECA-2's side buttons are aweful), prefer mouse with sniper button or mouse with configurable software (e.g Synapse software can turn the Deathadder's side button into a sniper button to decrease DPI).


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raucous*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 1) Palm/claw hybrid
> 2) 800 DPI and 20.5 inches per 360 turn in game
> 3) Unlimited
> 4) Two additional side buttons (forward and back)
> 5) At the moment just Quake Live and Half Life 2 DM
> 6) Don't really know what this is
> 7) I have used Deathadders for years (original, black edition and now 2013 model). Other mice I've tried include: CM Storm (disliked), Kana 1 (disliked), Rival (too long) and most recently ECA-2. ECA-2 is close but I still play better with Deathadder.
> 
> Other notes: Hand size 17.5 to 18 centimetres, I seem to prefer right-handed ergonomic shape however would be open to trying another ambidextrous mouse, prefer tight side buttons (ECA-2's side buttons are aweful), prefer mouse with sniper button or mouse with configurable software (e.g Synapse software can turn the Deathadder's side button into a sniper button to decrease DPI).


You may look into Logitech G402. I don't know, if you like that kind of shape, but it's got a "sniper button" on the left side and isn't too heavy. Or maybe Roccat Kone Pure Military/Kone XTD Optical? They got dedicated dpi buttons. Asus ROG Gladius has a very similar shape to DeathAdder and offers an extra button on top. I guess you can re-map that one. Furthermore Kone XTD Optical and Gladius share the same sensor with DeathAdder 2013/Chroma. Kone Pure Military is a bit smaller, but your EC2-A was also smaller than DeathAdder, so.... Idk... You might like one of these mice. For ambidextrous.... I know a lot of people find Logitech G302/G303's shape weird and whatnot. I would recommend to try out, if you can. For me it's quite comfortable (18 cm hands tip to the base). I was kind of surprised.


----------



## bruzanHD

1. I hold my mouse with my thumb on the left, pinky and ring on the right, and I don't really touch the mouse I drag my wrist on the mouse pad. therefore small and lightwieght are preferred.
2. 800DPI 52cm/360.
3. I will spend as much as I need to on the right mouse, seeing as how anything is going to cost ******ed amounts due to the current state of the Canadian Pesso.
4. Not really, but mouse 4 & 5 are nice to have.
5. CS (all of them), Quake Live, WAW Zombies, and Heroes and Generals. I play only FPS games.
6. No prediction.
7. I need driverless because I switch machines quite often. Low LOD is useful. I use a cloth pad (again I swap machines often so like a tek syndicate one and a QcK+ and many no names). Shape is a non concern although, it must be light weight however, small is nice due to the frequent transportation. I was thinking Zowie FK1/2, ZA11/2/3 or Finalmouse, however both have getting flamed alot lately so I hesitated. Also ambi is preferred.

I'd love to help in return but I am not yet knowledgable enough to be confident in doing so. Cheers!


----------



## lainx

I'm looking at getting something similar to the Logitech G700. Right now i have the Mionix Avior 7000 and have had it for a year but always felt something was off in shape. I used my G700 prior to that for a long time before it started double clicking.
*[*] What's your grip style?*
I'm fingertip now but i think i find palm better honestly (see above)
*[*] What's your sensitivity?*
400-800
*[*] What's your maximum budget?*
Budget's no issue
*[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
Preferably for MMO's but not important. Shape, Weight and Optical Sensor are more important.
*[*] What games do you play?*
Mainly FPS but pretty much everything
*[*] Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes very much so.
*[*] Other relevant information:*
Low LOD preferable. Using a plastic hardmat (Qpad Heaton). Will be switching to aluminium pad (alugraphics gamerpro) in the coming months. Optical sensor.
My grip is that it's always resting on three buttons on top. Left/Middle/Right with pinkie on the side.
Not fond of Razer or Logitech (unless QC on Logitech has gotten better). I actually prefered Logitech a lot before but all my mice from them started double clicking after 6 months of use.
Lightweight is also very important! I've gotten used to the Avior 7000 weight (146g with cable) and i'd like to stay around there or less.
Thanks!

I also measured my hand and from wrist to tip of middle finger is about 16cm. I have small hands.


----------



## raucous

Hi hza

Thank you for your recommendations in the response to my post.

Do you know which mice that you have recommended are mice that encourage the user to aim with their wrist?

Last night I played a game using the ECA-2 and Deathadder. The ECA-2 is smaller and seems to require me to use hand / fingers to aim whereas the Deathadder requires my wrist for aiming. I prefer using my wrist for aiming. I have very unsteady hands and need to play with low mouse sensitivity to hit my targets.

I have also been following the new Ducky mouse on this forum - looked great until hearing about the weight and button lag


----------



## hza

Hi @raucous,

That's a tough question. I don't know. I use my wrist with every mouse I have (had), no matter the size, weight or shape in general.

If you say EC2-A more than DA, I could imagine smaller mice encourage that, but from my experience low sensitivity doesn't go too well with wrist aiming compared to using whole hand. I did that when I used to have a very low sensitivity (CS 1.5/1.6 with 6/11 mostly less than 1.5 in-game sensitivity @400 dpi - later 800 dpi and over 2 sensitivity - now 1200 dpi with roughly the same in-game senitivity). I increased my sensitivity so much till I found one I am very comfortable with. And the higher sesnitivity became, the more I used just wrist instead of whole arm. I never was a pro player, I did OK'ish and bla. However, I just share my experience especially when coming from a very very low sensitivity as you can tell. I mean comfort comes first in and outside of the game, then everything else. To be fair, I stopped playing fps on a regular base about 3 years ago. I might "come back" when new Doom comes out


----------



## Homeyjojo

Hey guys, currently own the sensei, and enjoy how the mouse feels, but it is starting to go and i'm looking to switch it up.

What's your grip style?
Mainly Claw, I switch to palm sometimes.
What's your sensitivity?
1600dpi as a baseline
What's your maximum budget?
No budget
Do you want additional buttons?
I'm used to having 2 thumb buttons
What games do you play?
Dota mainly, Guild wars often, Somethimes CS:GO, and other games aren't worth mentioning
Do you mind about prediction?
Close to Raw input please
Other relevant information:
Wired. Doesn't have to me matte, but I don't want the metallic surface of the sensei.


----------



## Homeyjojo

Anyone got a suggestion?


----------



## daniel0731ex

ZA


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> ZA


+1 for that


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> While not a mouse pad thread i thourght i would ask any way so here goes
> 
> I am looking for a new mouse pad to replace my QCK it must have:
> 
> Moderate speed
> Low starting force
> Quick stoping speed
> Large
> Comfy
> I have been looking around alot but there isnt a lot of info on mousepads... so thats why i am asking.


Supermat. Ignore the ludicrous suggestions to buy $50 mousepads.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> The feel of 3310 is weird, I can feel like something was smoothing out my moves and that annoys me. I'm a fairly low sens player so I'm more sensitive to how the sensor feels... I was thinking of trying 3366 but some people wrote that the feel is similiar to the 3310, but even if I did go for it there's not much choice mouse wise. I'm only limited to Logitech and their quality of mouses has dropped looking back at the g402...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit
> 
> The main things the mouse has to have are: 3988 sensor, Low Click delay and fairly ambi shape. But something along the lines of DA or Gladius is ok, just nothing crazy like Mionix Naos etc.


You can't compare sensors like that. Every mouse with the 3310 sensor feels and performs completely different.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xIC3x*
> 
> Would you guys say that the 3366 is superior to PixArt 3988?


Same for this.

But one of the mice I tested (DA 4g) that uses the 3988 had superior ingame performance vs the mouse I tested (g502) that had the 3366. Another mouse with the (evga x5) 3988 performs completely different to the DA 4g.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catalin1122*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400-600 DPI
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100 EUROS
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> 5. What games do you play?
> CS:GO (mainly), Company Of Heroes 2, DayZ, War Thunder.
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I do not want prediction.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> - My palm is 18 - 19 cm long and 8.5 - 9 cm wide.
> - My current mouse is A4Tech Bloody V5 which is ok but I want something better. I like it's weight but I don't mind the new mouse to be less heavy.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I hold my mouse with my thumb on the left, pinky and ring on the right, and I don't really touch the mouse I drag my wrist on the mouse pad. therefore small and lightwieght are preferred.
> 2. 800DPI 52cm/360.
> 3. I will spend as much as I need to on the right mouse, seeing as how anything is going to cost ******ed amounts due to the current state of the Canadian Pesso.
> 4. Not really, but mouse 4 & 5 are nice to have.
> 5. CS (all of them), Quake Live, WAW Zombies, and Heroes and Generals. I play only FPS games.
> 6. No prediction.
> 7. I need driverless because I switch machines quite often. Low LOD is useful. I use a cloth pad (again I swap machines often so like a tek syndicate one and a QcK+ and many no names). Shape is a non concern although, it must be light weight however, small is nice due to the frequent transportation. I was thinking Zowie FK1/2, ZA11/2/3 or Finalmouse, however both have getting flamed alot lately so I hesitated. Also ambi is preferred.
> 
> I'd love to help in return but I am not yet knowledgable enough to be confident in doing so. Cheers!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking at getting something similar to the Logitech G700. Right now i have the Mionix Avior 7000 and have had it for a year but always felt something was off in shape. I used my G700 prior to that for a long time before it started double clicking.
> *[*] What's your grip style?*
> I'm fingertip now but i think i find palm better honestly (see above)
> *[*] What's your sensitivity?*
> 400-800
> *[*] What's your maximum budget?*
> Budget's no issue
> *[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
> Preferably for MMO's but not important. Shape, Weight and Optical Sensor are more important.
> *[*] What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS but pretty much everything
> *[*] Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes very much so.
> *[*] Other relevant information:*
> Low LOD preferable. Using a plastic hardmat (Qpad Heaton). Will be switching to aluminium pad (alugraphics gamerpro) in the coming months. Optical sensor.
> My grip is that it's always resting on three buttons on top. Left/Middle/Right with pinkie on the side.
> Not fond of Razer or Logitech (unless QC on Logitech has gotten better). I actually prefered Logitech a lot before but all my mice from them started double clicking after 6 months of use.
> Lightweight is also very important! I've gotten used to the Avior 7000 weight (146g with cable) and i'd like to stay around there or less.
> Thanks!
> 
> I also measured my hand and from wrist to tip of middle finger is about 16cm. I have small hands.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/4350_50#post_23725979


----------



## lb_felipe

Hyperlink to Supermat?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Supermat versions (foam vs rubber backing): http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/450_50#post_23795000 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/500_50#post_23901805 - Comparison to Allsop Raindrop: http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/550_50#post_23974311

http://www.randombuy.com/p-3-handstands-super-size-mouse-mat-blue.aspx - https://www.bing.com/search?q=SuperMat+Mousepad&FORM=R5FD6


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Hyperlink to Supermat?


http://m.ebay.com/itm/New-Handstands-SuperMat-Mouse-Pad-17-25-X-13-75-Green-Teal-/191683974052?nav=SEARCH

This is the original thicker version of the Handstands Supermat. The ones available on Amazon right now are significantly thinner. You can confirm this by recent reviews


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Hyperlink to Supermat?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Supermat versions (foam vs rubber backing): http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/450_50#post_23795000 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/500_50#post_23901805 - Comparison to Allsop Raindrop: http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/550_50#post_23974311
> 
> http://www.randombuy.com/p-3-handstands-super-size-mouse-mat-blue.aspx - https://www.bing.com/search?q=SuperMat+Mousepad&FORM=R5FD6


Thanks for the links.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/New-Handstands-SuperMat-Mouse-Pad-17-25-X-13-75-Green-Teal-/191683974052?nav=SEARCH
> 
> This is the original thicker version of the Handstands Supermat. The ones available on Amazon right now are significantly thinner. You can confirm this by recent reviews


Thanks.

What are the downsides from the thin Super Mat against the thick one?


----------



## wareya

According to reviews it smells bad and is a completely different construction


----------



## lb_felipe

What would be a safe choice anyway (without considering that specific for sale on ebay linked by crow)?

SteelSeries Qck+ /Qck Heavy? Allsop Mouse Pad XL Raindrop? Other (what)?


----------



## TburdzZ

Well I love Fm and all but I think they have bit off a little more then they can chew with all these "variants". Just make a high performace mouse with 1000hz accurate sensor good side buttons good switches on clicks minimal click delay good scrollwheel and half decent side coating. Then once thats done make your "variants" .


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/New-Handstands-SuperMat-Mouse-Pad-17-25-X-13-75-Green-Teal-/191683974052?nav=SEARCH
> 
> This is the original thicker version of the Handstands Supermat. The ones available on Amazon right now are significantly thinner. You can confirm this by recent reviews


This sample is very expensive. Still, in that price, it is worth it rather than BS gimmik mousepad like SteelSeries, Mionix, Zowie etc?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> This sample is very expensive. Still, in that price, it is worth it rather than BS gimmik mousepad like SteelSeries, Mionix, Zowie etc?


That depends on your personal preferences, and in order to figure it out you'd have to test all of those pads, which is implausible. So I'd just try to find a cheaper supermat.


----------



## wareya

if you don't want to drop 50+ on the supreme flatness of the P-SR/G-SR, it's the best mid-sized mousepad you'll find for its price.


----------



## qsxcv

allsop raindrop tho


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> if you don't want to drop 50+ on the supreme flatness of the P-SR/G-SR, it's the best mid-sized mousepad you'll find for its price.


M8 I believe Artisans are flatter and probably better (runs)


----------



## axmadka

anyone heard of "fnatic gear" already? Their commercial looks like one from mionix)


----------



## monny

Hi! Just wondering if someone might be able to give me some advice rearding Zowie shapes. I've just received an EC2-A after researching all my options, and it's really not working for me - I have big hands (22cm) and use a fingertip grip, and the ergo shape is leading me to angle my fingers to the right, which would be fine if my pointer finger wasn't hitting the scroll wheel all the time







the rear left join between the two panels is also catching my palm every so often, and I can tell it's going to get annoying fast.

Apart from those two issues, I really like the mouse, so I'm wondering which model would be the best to exchange it for - FK 1/2, ZA 11/12/13, or EC1-A (if the left mouse button is noticeably bigger, rubbing against the scroll wheel might not be a problem). I'm leaning towards the FK1 at the moment









If it helps, I'm coming from a G9 with the stubby grip on it.


----------



## badben25

I'd guess ZA11 or EC1


----------



## monny

Out of interest, is the scroll wheel lower profile on the ZA series than the ECs? It looks like it in pictures, but it's hard to tell.


----------



## badben25

Yeah it is, EC scroll has a higher profile than AM/FK/ZA mice.


----------



## Nestala

What's your grip style? A bit of everything honestly.
What's your sensitivity? 1600 on the Zowie FK1 felt nice.
What's your maximum budget? Don't care.
Do you want additional buttons? No, the standard 5 buttons are enough for me.
What games do you play? A bit of everything, MMOs, FPSs, RPGs etc
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction please.
Other relevant information: Should be in ambidextrous shape, finish similar to that of the Zowie FK1, since I get very sweaty hands. Mouse wheel should be good since I use it a lot in MMOs. The buttons of the FK1 were ok, but maybe something a tad bit light than the Huanos. I like a flat form, like the FK1 or the Steelseries Sensei.

Does something like this even exist?


----------



## Bizong

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
1. Claw/Fingertip
2. 4000 dpi 1000 polling rate
3. 70$
4. Yes, specifically with one or two behind the scroll wheel and at least 2 left buttons
5. World of Warcraft, and MOBA's
6. What is this????????
7. medium weight, medium button activation (i need to know i pressed a button), Simple black finish with a LED light somewhere on it is fine, pref red lights


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> allsop raindrop tho


You prefer that over the supermat?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> allsop raindrop tho
> 
> 
> 
> You prefer that over the supermat?
Click to expand...

Does supermat have a spongy rubber base or a densely packed one?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Does supermat have a spongy rubber base or a densely packed one?


Both: http://www.overclock.net/t/1139543/official-the-mouse-suggestion-thread/5090#post_24686273


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> allsop raindrop tho
> 
> 
> 
> You prefer that over the supermat?
Click to expand...

yea but its just my preference though. actually right now i'm using an allsop on a black supermat

i hate the foam supermat though.


----------



## Amaterasu

What's your grip style?
Claw grip

What's your sensitivity?
While I played with 1.1 / 1.1A - I was using:

400 DPI (or 450 depends on which version)
5/11 Windows sensitivity
2.35 in-game with m_rawinput 1 (CS:GO)

What's your maximum budget?
~60 euros

Do you want additional buttons?
I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.

What games do you play?
CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?
No acceleration of course and no prediction...

Other relevant information:
I currently have 1.1A and the reason why I want to upgrade is because I'm bored with my current mouse.

I was thinking about ZOWIE mices. What about ZA/FK/EC series? I have tried FK1 but the sensor was ****ed up. What is the difference between EC evo and EC-Xa series


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> I'm looking at getting something similar to the Logitech G700. Right now i have the Mionix Avior 7000 and have had it for a year but always felt something was off in shape. I used my G700 prior to that for a long time before it started double clicking.
> *[*] What's your grip style?*
> I'm fingertip now but i think i find palm better honestly (see above)
> *[*] What's your sensitivity?*
> 400-800
> *[*] What's your maximum budget?*
> Budget's no issue
> *[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
> Preferably for MMO's but not important. Shape, Weight and Optical Sensor are more important.
> *[*] What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS but pretty much everything
> *[*] Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes very much so.
> *[*] Other relevant information:*
> Low LOD preferable. Using a plastic hardmat (Qpad Heaton). Will be switching to aluminium pad (alugraphics gamerpro) in the coming months. Optical sensor.
> My grip is that it's always resting on three buttons on top. Left/Middle/Right with pinkie on the side.
> Not fond of Razer or Logitech (unless QC on Logitech has gotten better). I actually prefered Logitech a lot before but all my mice from them started double clicking after 6 months of use.
> Lightweight is also very important! I've gotten used to the Avior 7000 weight (146g with cable) and i'd like to stay around there or less.
> Thanks!
> 
> I also measured my hand and from wrist to tip of middle finger is about 16cm. I have small hands.


Quoting again. Anyone that could help?

What i like about the G700 is that the back is large (i guess it's called a stubby back?) and the thumb rest. Something similar that lets me almost rest the wrist on my mouse pad.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> Not fond of Razer or Logitech (unless QC on Logitech has gotten better). I actually prefered Logitech a lot before but all my mice from them started double clicking after 6 months of use.


In my case none, not a single Logitech mouse did that in the last 12 years.

I could suggest you a G303, I find that mouse comfortable for small(er) hands (18 cm tip to the base). I was surprised because some people said it's got a too weird shape. Went back to G502 because I prefer the mousewheel on G502. A lot of people dislike it because it's heavy and slippery and whatnot. For me it becamse a must-have when I buy a mouse. Another thing about G303... When you shake it or move it left-right you'll hear some kind of rattle. Don't know what it's caused from, but it seems to be normal. The one in the computer store had it too, so, I assume it as being "normal".

Other lighter mice you could like.... Check out Roccat Kone Pure Military. Had the Kone Pure Optical in the past. Only downside for me was it' size, slightly too small. As you have smaller hands than me, you might like it though. For my taste Roccat has "better" mwheels than most Logitechs, Razers and other brands, I just prefer G502/G500 style wheels.

I can't suggest other brands because I didn't use other brands in the last 5 years or so. I don't like to talk about things I didn't try out myself.


----------



## wes1099

What's your grip style? - Palm
What's your sensitivity? - 400dpi
What's your maximum budget? - $70
Do you want additional buttons? - 2 Side buttons (like on IMO and Deathadder)
What games do you play? - FPS in general
Do you mind about prediction? - Please no (some say deathadder has prediction but I don't notice it)
Other relevant information: I prefer ergonomic right handed mice. Driverless is good, but if it needs drivers I prefer onboard memory so that I don't have to have drivers running in the background. I have been using the deathadder 2013, IMO 3.0 Legends Edition, and Roccat Kone XTD Optical and I love them all. What do you guys think I should try next?


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - Palm
> What's your sensitivity? - 400dpi
> What's your maximum budget? - $70
> Do you want additional buttons? - 2 Side buttons (like on IMO and Deathadder)
> What games do you play? - FPS in general
> Do you mind about prediction? - Please no (some say deathadder has prediction but I don't notice it)
> Other relevant information: I prefer ergonomic right handed mice. Driverless is good, but if it needs drivers I prefer onboard memory so that I don't have to have drivers running in the background. I have been using the deathadder 2013, IMO 3.0 Legends Edition, and Roccat Kone XTD Optical and I love them all. What do you guys think I should try next?


I would say go with a G303, If you can get use to the shape then the sensor and clicks make it worth it.


----------



## JackCY

*What's your grip style?*
Palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
Desired native 800 - 1600 (Current 400-450 is too low.)
*What's your maximum budget?*
I guess a $100, or just make one if there is some info about making oneself a custom mouse.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 for right hand thumb
*What games do you play?*
FPS, Sim, RTS
*Do you mind about prediction?*
NO prediction, NO smoothing, NO acceleration in any way, I want the raw stuff and fast without any post processing nonsense.
*Other relevant information:*
LOD lower or similar to IE3.0
Shape *as large as possible*, larger than IE3.0 if possible, must have properly placed mouse wheel at the front not far back, side buttons at the front not far back and an ability to hold the mouse with ring finger on the side at front just like IE3.0. Who suggests Zowie EC1 will be killed. Wide and fat at the rear, high enough at front for finger if mouse too short they won't rub the mat but stay in air, round top/round from side view = not straight line from the hump to the front where the fingers are but curve down under the fingers.
Weight lower or similar to IE3.0
Wired
Cord similar to IE3.0 that doesn't get in the way or block the movement of the front of the mouse like some other cords tend to
Finish: durable coating or none
Omron buttons with low height to press, nice and crisp, no worse than IE3.0
Driverless if possible
Onboard memory... if I set the mouse to 800cpi it should remember that setting with PC/mouse being turned off/on from power, so when mouse loses power it should still remember the last setting.
Doesn't need to be super high speed as I don't have a problem with IE3.0 in terms of movement speed I think.
A working wheel without any bugs (Zowie) or random scrolling (IE3.0), that has nice crisp steps and if possible has more steps than the standard 16-18.
USB 500Hz or more
I prefer Optical, and I guess it shouldn't even be needed to say but maybe it is. Unless the laser sensors have gotten magically better in recent year or two than the optical ones, I doubt it.
If possible without any blinking shining lights and other crap.
Mice you don't need to bother with that I have already tried and returned:
Zowie EC1 Evo CL, 24 step wheel is nice except that Zowie has bad mold and the wheels have a bug and do not work. Too small, side buttons and wheel too far back, not close to IE3.0 shape at all like some like to think. Buttons with different height, not crisp but muddy and high. Probably doesn't even remember last setting after losing power, strange CPI settings on this older version.
Mionix Naos 7000, too narrow, hump in the back and then flat on the fingers instead of being round, coating didn't even last the test, bad edges around buttons, buttons sucked, period, it either fits your tiny hand or not and there is no way to hold it differently. Sensor would work better on clothes, skin, table than on a mouse mat, the sensor was garbage.

Didn't try and don't want to:
DA, too many versions, too many issues, wrong shape.


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> In my case none, not a single Logitech mouse did that in the last 12 years.
> 
> I could suggest you a G303, I find that mouse comfortable for small(er) hands (18 cm tip to the base). I was surprised because some people said it's got a too weird shape. Went back to G502 because I prefer the mousewheel on G502. A lot of people dislike it because it's heavy and slippery and whatnot. For me it becamse a must-have when I buy a mouse. Another thing about G303... When you shake it or move it left-right you'll hear some kind of rattle. Don't know what it's caused from, but it seems to be normal. The one in the computer store had it too, so, I assume it as being "normal".
> 
> Other lighter mice you could like.... Check out Roccat Kone Pure Military. Had the Kone Pure Optical in the past. Only downside for me was it' size, slightly too small. As you have smaller hands than me, you might like it though. For my taste Roccat has "better" mwheels than most Logitechs, Razers and other brands, I just prefer G502/G500 style wheels.
> 
> I can't suggest other brands because I didn't use other brands in the last 5 years or so. I don't like to talk about things I didn't try out myself.


Thanks! I've decided that i'm gonna check them out and see if i can try before i buy somewhere. I started thinking about which mice i've used over the years going way way back to the first Razer ever released, and i think one of my favourite was the Razer ProSolutions 1.6. I also realized that my grip is all wrong after extensive testing and reviewing pictures. I'm definitely a Claw Grip. I think the reason i don't actually like the mionix that much is because it's too big, not that i figured i had a palm grip because i enjoyed the G700. The only reason i like it is because it feels great doing mundane stuff like surfing.. Palm grip actually feels the best there but as soon as i'm gaming it's somewhat of a hybrid between claw and fingertip. Maybe i should make a new post with pictures... Oh well, Thanks again!

EDIT:
The Diamondback was the same shape as the Razer Prosolutions, right? Is there anything similar in terms of shape/size? As in, similar to the Prosolutions 1.6? Preferably not ambi, even though i believe the ProSolutions 1.6 was. Some curve would be nice and i hate having buttons on the right side.


----------



## hza

Yes, ProSolutions 1.6=white Diamondback basically. And yes, Diamonback=ambidextrous. Just go to a bigger computer store and try out different shapes.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? - Palm
> What's your sensitivity? - 400dpi
> What's your maximum budget? - $70
> Do you want additional buttons? - 2 Side buttons (like on IMO and Deathadder)
> What games do you play? - FPS in general
> Do you mind about prediction? - Please no (some say deathadder has prediction but I don't notice it)
> Other relevant information: I prefer ergonomic right handed mice. Driverless is good, but if it needs drivers I prefer onboard memory so that I don't have to have drivers running in the background. I have been using the deathadder 2013, IMO 3.0 Legends Edition, and Roccat Kone XTD Optical and I love them all. What do you guys think I should try next?


Nothing. You already have and like more than one of the top mice available. There's no reason to buy more mice. There is nothing better at the moment.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Nothing. You already have and like more than one of the top mice available. There's no reason to buy more mice. There is nothing better at the moment.


For some reason I felt that one coming... One day someone will release an exceptionally amazing mouse for me to add to my collection.


----------



## Karmafunkz313

1-What's your grip style?
Either palm or fingertip grip, i think leaning toward fingertip but it varies as the game gets more intensive
2-What's you sensitivity?
With basic mouse like "Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0", I usually try to set everything on max/high both in Windows and ingame. For more modern mouses, for example Logitech g600 for MMOs, Wow specifically, i would usually go around 1800 to 2400, depending on surface (with windows/ingame options set on max). I would usually need to set it on lower in Fps games.
3-What's you maximum budget?
I'm aiming for 40,60 eu, but willing to go for 100eu if needed or more, I just really need to be sure I won't need to change that mouse in a year or two. I'm usually carefull when using them, though i use them extensively, since i game a lot, and mostly multiplayer/competitive.
4-Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, the only problem is, I don't want them to hinder, slow my gaming down, even though I'm willing to spend months of practice getting used to them if needed, like I did with g600 MMO, but i had a very bitter experience with it. For one, I have big hands, but I don't feel any benefit from a big mouse, or a heavy one (i wouldn't mind heavy, but big deffinitely bothers me) and from my experience even though g600 had like 12 buttons on the side, I only felt i could use 6 of them with my thumb at any given time, but then again, they required too much force to effectively use them for anything except some things that werent important to be used the exact moment I needed them to be used. I didn't mind the amount of pressure needed to activate the side buttons was high, but they made my cursor move to the side when i press them. I would rather have 4-6 buttons on the side,or 2 on both sides, or even 2, but if i was 100% sure they were easy to use quick and without making my mouse loose precision by requiring too much force to press, therefore moving my cursor to the side every time i pressed them.
5-What games do you play?
Moba's, used to play a lot of fps competitively and was good at it, like CS series but before CS:GO went out, now I'm getting used to CS:GO too after a long break, and RTS, and MMOs. I'm looking for something that is deffinitely gonna be capable for competitive multiplayer games, and if possible also viable for MMO pvp (therefore the possible need for maybe additional mouse buttons aside the 2 on the side, I'm contemplating maybe getting the ambidextrious editions even though I'm right handed, just for the 2 extra buttons on the right side, though I'm afraid if they will be too weirdly shaped, but old Microsoft mouse seems pretty even on both sides, even though it doesn't have ambidextrious in it's name, so i figure it wouldn't be a problem if I need it)
6-Do you mind prediction?
Tbh completely, i am everyday, at least few hours gamer looking to go back to competitive, and had some good experience in the past, but completely noob about technology. I would like to avoid acceleration of any kind, and idk what prediction is (I'm assuming something that forces your mouse to follow a straight line when you move it, to help you draw or smth) so idk if it hinders you in competitive games, then yes I would avoid it. If it's any kind of a: good for you if not experienced, bad if you are experienced; i would rather avoid prediction and just put in the work to get used to playing without it, if it gives you any sort of edge.
7-
Don't care about colors or any additional features, popularity or novelty, just need precision and ergonomics and as much as necessary extra buttons for serious gaming (if that means a good mouse for moba/fps/rts would be bad for MMO pvp, I'm willing to sacrifice extra buttons if they'll hinderance in moba/fps/rts; if there's a universal mouse for competitive gaming in all, then great). I'm willing to change my grip and stuff about the way i play, if the best possible mouse requires it, just need to know I'm making a good purchase. I'm not a cheap(too much), I just don't live in a country where I can resend something or exchange it if I don't like it easily, so I would like to get it right on 2nd time(since i wasn't really happy with g600, that was my first time purchase of modern mouses) that's all. If i could get something that has the shape of Microsoft basic optical mouse v2.0, but additional buttons for sniping, and higher sensitivity, and (only if possible) few more buttons for MMO pvp, that would be perfect, but the MMO part I'm willing to sacrifice and just play without more extra buttons if they're like g600, which I felt was a great idea, but messing up your precision and overall just badly done in practice.
Again, sorry for my complete ignorance about technology, and thx for any advice you can give in advance. Again, I would have been perfectly happy with g600, if pressing the side buttons didnt move the cursor, even after a year of getting used to, since those side buttons required too much force. 2nd, I'm not sure about it's precision when it comes to FPS/MOBA games.
8
Ah right. I'm looking for mousepad too


----------



## Trel

I'm looking for the following

- WIRED ONLY
- Scroll wheel with discrete clicks (no smooth, or optional smooth)
- Has the general shape (wide) of a Redragon Mammoth ( http://www.amazon.com/Redragon-Mammoth-Programmable-PC-Profiles-Switches/dp/B00GU4F4OM )
- Has a similarly positioned button to the left of the main left click button
- Not Logitech (I've systematically hated every Logitech mouse I've ever touched)

(The MadCatz mice like the MMO7, while having a button placed to the left of the main left click, hardcoded it's use, so that unfortunately doesn't fit the bill here. I've contacted their support before about maybe having that changed, but I'm not holding my breath)


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Nothing. You already have and like more than one of the top mice available. There's no reason to buy more mice. There is nothing better at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason I felt that one coming... One day someone will release an exceptionally amazing mouse for me to add to my collection.
Click to expand...

No such thing as too WAIT. Sure if you are a vampire, with an unlimited life span for centuries but the rest of us mortals need to play with any and all input devices available







.

Better to have a whole room full of mice to play with, than be stuck with only one and curse yourself everyday for that tragic mistake.......


----------



## Twiffle

-removed-


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> No such thing as too WAIT. Sure if you are a vampire, with an unlimited life span for centuries but the rest of us mortals need to play with any and all input devices available
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Better to have a whole room full of mice to play with, than be stuck with only one and curse yourself everyday for that tragic mistake.......


lol that was great. I actually like to think about lots of things that way. The reason I don't actually have a room full of computer hardware is because I am an unemployed junior in high school, thus I have very little currency.


----------



## ElXm

*What's your grip style?*
Claw/palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
800DPI 1.3 in game CS:GO
*What's your maximum budget?*
150$
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes 2 classic like MX518
*What games do you play?*
Only CS:GO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
0 Acc
*Other relevant information:*
I used mx518 for 5 years and cheap are good but it give me cramp after hours of game on my grip half palm half claw
-my hand 20cm


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElXm*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw/palm
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 800DPI 1.3 in game CS:GO
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 150$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes 2 classic like MX518
> *What games do you play?*
> Only CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 0 Acc
> *Other relevant information:*
> I used mx518 for 5 years and cheap are good but it give me cramp after hours of game on my grip half palm half claw
> -my hand 20cm


G402


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Nothing. You already have and like more than one of the top mice available. There's no reason to buy more mice. There is nothing better at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason I felt that one coming... One day someone will release an exceptionally amazing mouse for me to add to my collection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No such thing as too WAIT. Sure if you are a vampire, with an unlimited life span for centuries but the rest of us mortals need to play with any and all input devices available
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Better to have a whole room full of mice to play with, than be stuck with only one and curse yourself everyday for that tragic mistake.......
Click to expand...

There's a G303 in my room begging me to use it but I must resist for the well being of my hand


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElXm*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw/palm
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 800DPI 1.3 in game CS:GO
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 150$
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes 2 classic like MX518
> *What games do you play?*
> Only CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 0 Acc
> *Other relevant information:*
> I used mx518 for 5 years and cheap are good but it give me cramp after hours of game on my grip half palm half claw
> -my hand 20cm


Try a Zowie EC-1A, I use claw/palm and the EC-1 fit me perfectly for most uses, I use it for general browsing but come game-time its the IE3.0 but the EC-1 is definitely something you should consider.


----------



## fxniqab

What's your grip style?
- palm
What's your sensitivity?
- 30cm / 360°
What's your maximum budget?
- 150$
Do you want additional buttons?
- would be nice but not a must have
What games do you play?
- cs go
Do you mind about prediction?
- no prediction, no acelleration
Other relevant information:
- since i use the mouse with my left hand it has to be ambidextrous
- i have very tiny hands. i used the g100s but it is a little bit to big for my hands and i dont want to have to use software to change dpi. g303 would be perfect if it wouldnt have such a ****ty shape. is there any other mouse to be released anytime soon that is tiny with a flawless sensor and onboard memory and possible to set 750 dpi ?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> - 30cm / 360°
> What's your maximum budget?
> - 150$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - would be nice but not a must have
> What games do you play?
> - cs go
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - no prediction, no acelleration
> Other relevant information:
> - since i use the mouse with my left hand it has to be ambidextrous
> - i have very tiny hands. i used the g100s but it is a little bit to big for my hands and i dont want to have to use software to change dpi. g303 would be perfect if it wouldnt have such a ****ty shape. is there any other mouse to be released anytime soon that is tiny with a flawless sensor and onboard memory and possible to set 750 dpi ?


Sawed-off G100s http://www.overclock.net/t/1444732/sawed-off-g100s/0_100


----------



## fxniqab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Sawed-off G100s http://www.overclock.net/t/1444732/sawed-off-g100s/0_100


unfortanetly i can not palm this


----------



## falcon26

Going from a Logitech G9 to either a Zowie ZA12 or a Deathadder Chroma which would be more like the G9?


----------



## Andy91

What's your grip style?

Fingertip

What's your sensitivity?

800dpi

What's your maximum budget?

I'll spend whatever as long as it's justifiable - within reason. I guess like £70

Do you want additional buttons?

Not bothered

What games do you play?

League of Legends

Do you mind about prediction?

Yes

Other relevant information:

Currently using a NAOS7000. Have been happy with it but the middle click has died, which is irritating as I use(d) it to open new tabs when web browsing.

I'm not massively fussy and I don't have any flashy requirements, just something simple with a very good sensor.

I've tried looking through the forum for suggestions, but I feel so out of the loop as it's been a while since I last looked at mice. Just a few suggestions of the 'best' mice about at the moment would be great.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andy91*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> I'll spend whatever as long as it's justifiable - within reason. I guess like £70
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Not bothered
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> League of Legends
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Currently using a NAOS7000. Have been happy with it but the middle click has died, which is irritating as I use(d) it to open new tabs when web browsing.
> 
> I'm not massively fussy and I don't have any flashy requirements, just something simple with a very good sensor.
> 
> I've tried looking through the forum for suggestions, but I feel so out of the loop as it's been a while since I last looked at mice. Just a few suggestions of the 'best' mice about at the moment would be great.


G303, Xornet 2


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Sawed-off G100s http://www.overclock.net/t/1444732/sawed-off-g100s/0_100
> 
> 
> 
> unfortanetly i can not palm this
Click to expand...

Sugru palm rest


----------



## fxniqab

that is actually a good idea but like i said i want a mouse that i can have 750 dpi without any software running


----------



## gene-z

What's the closest thing to the G303 that has good comfort? I want a lighter/smaller mouse than the FK1, but the G303 hurts my wrist. Something like the G9X?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andy91*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800dpi
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> I'll spend whatever as long as it's justifiable - within reason. I guess like £70
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Not bothered
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> League of Legends
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> Yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Currently using a NAOS7000. Have been happy with it but the middle click has died, which is irritating as I use(d) it to open new tabs when web browsing.
> 
> I'm not massively fussy and I don't have any flashy requirements, just something simple with a very good sensor.
> 
> I've tried looking through the forum for suggestions, but I feel so out of the loop as it's been a while since I last looked at mice. Just a few suggestions of the 'best' mice about at the moment would be great.


Technically/sensor-wise (3366) best mice G502/303.


----------



## Bisnaga

What's your grip style?

Claw/Palm Mix

What's your sensitivity?

800 dpi

What's your maximum budget?

30 to 40€

Do you want additional buttons?

i only require the 2 side buttons

What games do you play?

Fps's Mostly and some Moba's from time to time

Do you mind about prediction?

Yes

Other relevant information:

I looked at Xornet II, and Cougar 500m , but i dunno for instance about Cougar's build quality and durability and if someone would give me some other options i would apreciate


----------



## Andy91

Going to go for a G303, thanks guys.


----------



## Fixxxer86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karmafunkz313*
> 
> 1-What's your grip style?
> Either palm or fingertip grip, i think leaning toward fingertip but it varies as the game gets more intensive
> 2-What's you sensitivity?
> With basic mouse like "Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0", I usually try to set everything on max/high both in Windows and ingame. For more modern mouses, for example Logitech g600 for MMOs, Wow specifically, i would usually go around 1800 to 2400, depending on surface (with windows/ingame options set on max). I would usually need to set it on lower in Fps games.
> 3-What's you maximum budget?
> I'm aiming for 40,60 eu, but willing to go for 100eu if needed or more, I just really need to be sure I won't need to change that mouse in a year or two. I'm usually carefull when using them, though i use them extensively, since i game a lot, and mostly multiplayer/competitive.
> 4-Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, the only problem is, I don't want them to hinder, slow my gaming down, even though I'm willing to spend months of practice getting used to them if needed, like I did with g600 MMO, but i had a very bitter experience with it. For one, I have big hands, but I don't feel any benefit from a big mouse, or a heavy one (i wouldn't mind heavy, but big deffinitely bothers me) and from my experience even though g600 had like 12 buttons on the side, I only felt i could use 6 of them with my thumb at any given time, but then again, they required too much force to effectively use them for anything except some things that werent important to be used the exact moment I needed them to be used. I didn't mind the amount of pressure needed to activate the side buttons was high, but they made my cursor move to the side when i press them. I would rather have 4-6 buttons on the side,or 2 on both sides, or even 2, but if i was 100% sure they were easy to use quick and without making my mouse loose precision by requiring too much force to press, therefore moving my cursor to the side every time i pressed them.
> 5-What games do you play?
> Moba's, used to play a lot of fps competitively and was good at it, like CS series but before CS:GO went out, now I'm getting used to CS:GO too after a long break, and RTS, and MMOs. I'm looking for something that is deffinitely gonna be capable for competitive multiplayer games, and if possible also viable for MMO pvp (therefore the possible need for maybe additional mouse buttons aside the 2 on the side, I'm contemplating maybe getting the ambidextrious editions even though I'm right handed, just for the 2 extra buttons on the right side, though I'm afraid if they will be too weirdly shaped, but old Microsoft mouse seems pretty even on both sides, even though it doesn't have ambidextrious in it's name, so i figure it wouldn't be a problem if I need it)
> 6-Do you mind prediction?
> Tbh completely, i am everyday, at least few hours gamer looking to go back to competitive, and had some good experience in the past, but completely noob about technology. I would like to avoid acceleration of any kind, and idk what prediction is (I'm assuming something that forces your mouse to follow a straight line when you move it, to help you draw or smth) so idk if it hinders you in competitive games, then yes I would avoid it. If it's any kind of a: good for you if not experienced, bad if you are experienced; i would rather avoid prediction and just put in the work to get used to playing without it, if it gives you any sort of edge.
> 7-
> Don't care about colors or any additional features, popularity or novelty, just need precision and ergonomics and as much as necessary extra buttons for serious gaming (if that means a good mouse for moba/fps/rts would be bad for MMO pvp, I'm willing to sacrifice extra buttons if they'll hinderance in moba/fps/rts; if there's a universal mouse for competitive gaming in all, then great). I'm willing to change my grip and stuff about the way i play, if the best possible mouse requires it, just need to know I'm making a good purchase. I'm not a cheap(too much), I just don't live in a country where I can resend something or exchange it if I don't like it easily, so I would like to get it right on 2nd time(since i wasn't really happy with g600, that was my first time purchase of modern mouses) that's all. If i could get something that has the shape of Microsoft basic optical mouse v2.0, but additional buttons for sniping, and higher sensitivity, and (only if possible) few more buttons for MMO pvp, that would be perfect, but the MMO part I'm willing to sacrifice and just play without more extra buttons if they're like g600, which I felt was a great idea, but messing up your precision and overall just badly done in practice.
> Again, sorry for my complete ignorance about technology, and thx for any advice you can give in advance. Again, I would have been perfectly happy with g600, if pressing the side buttons didnt move the cursor, even after a year of getting used to, since those side buttons required too much force. 2nd, I'm not sure about it's precision when it comes to FPS/MOBA games.
> 8
> Ah right. I'm looking for mousepad too


I think that the logitech g502 will be a great choice. It has plenty of buttons, one of the best sensors in the market and it is comfortable to use. I've used it for a while and I liked it a lot, the only problem for me was the weight and size (it is a little bit long and I have small hands),I couldn't reach all buttons properly. Anyways, you said that you have big hands, so I think it will a good choice for you.


----------



## daniel0731ex

I can't settle between my X5 and my G100s. G100s has the perfect weight, but has buttons that are too slanted and no 800CPI step. X5 has 800CPI step and nice, flat buttons, but is soooo heavy.


----------



## Altheroth

What's your grip style?
Claw/palm mix would be the most accurate

What's your sensitivity?
Depends on the game, between 2000 and 4200

What's your maximum budget?
No limit at the moment.

Do you want additional buttons?
yes but not too much, currently using a Naga and almost 6-8 buttons are still new.

What games do you play?
MOBA first of all then a bit of FPS and RTS-

Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure about my experience with it.


----------



## CookeiCutter

Hi, I'm looking for a new mouse, would appriciate any help:

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
umm depends on the game, around 800

What's your maximum budget?
pretty low, 55$ was thinking about getting a cheap microsoft optical mouse, but there are so many different ones, i dont know which one would be the best

Do you want additional buttons?
no - i don't mind side buttons if they are not in the way -

What games do you play?
mobas, rts games, CS:go

Do you mind about prediction?
dont really like it

Thanks for the help!


----------



## hza

@CookieCutter have a look into G402, it should offer all you need and be in your price range.


----------



## JackCY

Alright I will make my suggestion request a little bit easier:
What is the largest decent mouse you can recommend? That has no acceleration nor prediction and doesn't rely on any proprietary software running.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Alright I will make my suggestion request a little bit easier:
> What is the largest decent mouse you can recommend? That has no acceleration nor prediction and doesn't rely on any proprietary software running.


I'd go with the IE 3.0, ZA11 or G502 for a large good mouse.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> I'd go with the IE 3.0, ZA11 or G502 for a large good mouse.


I have a very old IE3.0 but the CPI/DPI of 400-450 is simply not enough for me anymore after going up from 1280x800 to 1920x1200px, something with 800 or 1600 would be nice.

Does the ZA series still suffer from scroll wheel issues like EC series? Does it remember the settings I set it to when plugged off? Or do I have to set the DPI every time the mouse is connected/powered on? I'm afraid the EC1 didn't and it was annoying to have to set the DPI every god damn time/day the PC/mouse turns on. So if I set it to 1000Hz 1600 DPI does it remember that when plugged in/out of devices? Are the side buttons and wheel far enough in front or still like EC way too much in the back? The EC1 for me was for claw grip, so bad, everything too far in the back and too short mouse as well. Gotta compare side view with EC1 and IE3.0 then I guess.

Not a fan of the button madness on Logitech but the old MX5xx used to be ok.


----------



## bruzanHD

The newer Zowies do remember all the settings. By scroll wheel issues what do you mean? I have a new FK1 and I've used a newer EC1-A at my friends place, if you mean the way the wheels are stiff then yeah they are still like that but in all other regards the current Zowie build quality is superb. Maybe give the G303 a shot, my hands are 19cm and it is fine for me. I'd try the deathadder but they have never lasted long enough for me to justify buying them.


----------



## antisphere

What's your grip style?
Palm/claw (I tend to swap it up for certain movements so I need a mouse that can fit both of these)
What's your sensitivity?
400/800 windows 6/11, in game 2.5
What's your maximum budget?
At this point I would be willing to spend $100 for something that can fit my needs.
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side buttons is all.
What games do you play?
CS:GO and Quake.
Do you mind about prediction?
I want a flawless Extremely precise sensor.
Other relevant information:
I currently have a Mionix Naos 7000 and this mouse turned out to be one of the worst experiences I have had with a mouse. it feels floaty, the grip on it is bad and it doesn't fit the way I do my mouse movements at all. By that I mean I move my entire arm to aim and it feels like I may just flick hard and it will fly out of my hands.
another thing I noticed about it is the front seems to lift off easy like its not properly balanced for its ergonomic design.
The mouse I have had the most success with was the deathadder 3.5g optical but the scroll wheels not last that long at all on them and would like an alternative.
If there really isn't anything out there that is better than the deathadder 3.5g for me then I will just go back to it, but im not caught up on the market these days and that lead to me making some really bad mouse purchases.
No zowie mice either, the switches just aren't cut out for me.


----------



## hza

New Zowies aka BenQs (with the RED logo on them) have Omron switches (again, Zowie used Omrons before they cut corners for Huanos). I would say try G502, but that mouse is probably way too heavy for you as you move your whole arm to aim. The mwheel is out of metal. Some people say it's heavy and slippery. For me it's neither nor. I wouldn't buy a mouse without that kind of mwheel anymore (not talking about material or free spin mode). Other than that coming from a DeathAdder... Idk, if you'd like the shape. You might try a Roccat Kone XTD Optical or Kone Pure Military. Kone XTD might suit you better in size and KPM offers less weight, but smaller. You'd have to go to a computer store and try out some mice/shapes.


----------



## antisphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> New Zowies aka BenQs (with the RED logo on them) have Omron switches (again, Zowie used Omrons before they cut corners for Huanos). I would say try G502, but that mouse is probably way too heavy for you as you move your whole arm to aim. The mwheel is out of metal. Some people say it's heavy and slippery. For me it's neither nor. I wouldn't buy a mouse without that kind of mwheel anymore (not talking about material or free spin mode). Other than that coming from a DeathAdder... Idk, if you'd like the shape. You might try a Roccat Kone XTD Optical or Kone Pure Military. Kone XTD might suit you better in size and KPM offers less weight, but smaller. You'd have to go to a computer store and try out some mice/shapes.


Yeah I was checking out the g502 the weight doesn't concern me too much it just needs to be balanced, I don't want the front of the mouse lifting up just from a simple weight change. The Naos does this just from me trying to get the correct amount of resistance in my movements.
the g502 will be a instant buy if someone can confirm that it doesn't do this and that it will work with a ever moving grip like mine.
Also I need a new mousepad, my puretrak talent is coming apart and I kinda want a even bigger mousepad than it with a different feel.
It's just a little bit rough and I get spots or patches on it where it worn down and makes really inconsistent shots. By bigger I mean in height I guess?


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> The newer Zowies do remember all the settings. By scroll wheel issues what do you mean? I have a new FK1 and I've used a newer EC1-A at my friends place, if you mean the way the wheels are stiff then yeah they are still like that but in all other regards the current Zowie build quality is superb. Maybe give the G303 a shot, my hands are 19cm and it is fine for me. I'd try the deathadder but they have never lasted long enough for me to justify buying them.


I had EC1 EVO CL, so I suppose a previous generation and it suffered from the infamous Zowie scroll wheel bug due their bad mold or something even though it was a 24 step wheel. There was a bug if I remember right that if you scroll or press and scroll with your index finger on the left side of the wheel, not on top of it but left side, then the wheel was getting stuck etc. I would have to look up my old review on geekhack or where I posted it.

My hands are 20-21cm, so all these new mouse seem made for baby Asians to me








All the Koreans playing SC must be happy but for Europeans most of these newer mice are tiny.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> New Zowies aka BenQs (with the RED logo on them) have Omron switches (again, Zowie used Omrons before they cut corners for Huanos). I would say try G502, but that mouse is probably way too heavy for you as you move your whole arm to aim. The mwheel is out of metal. Some people say it's heavy and slippery. For me it's neither nor. I wouldn't buy a mouse without that kind of mwheel anymore (not talking about material or free spin mode). Other than that coming from a DeathAdder... Idk, if you'd like the shape. You might try a Roccat Kone XTD Optical or Kone Pure Military. Kone XTD might suit you better in size and KPM offers less weight, but smaller. You'd have to go to a computer store and try out some mice/shapes.


Thx, I see the Zowie gets yet another update? Omrons I definitely favor and are so common you can replace them if you want to but I already know how to keep them last almost forever, clean the internal contacts, that's it. I like that the glowing wheel is gone from ZA and FK. Huanos I guess are OK but I like Omrons more.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *antisphere*
> 
> Yeah I was checking out the g502 the weight doesn't concern me too much it just needs to be balanced, I don't want the front of the mouse lifting up just from a simple weight change. The Naos does this just from me trying to get the correct amount of resistance in my movements.
> the g502 will be a instant buy if someone can confirm that it doesn't do this and that it will work with a ever moving grip like mine.
> Also I need a new mousepad, my puretrak talent is coming apart and I kinda want a even bigger mousepad than it with a different feel.
> It's just a little bit rough and I get spots or patches on it where it worn down and makes really inconsistent shots. By bigger I mean in height I guess?


Naos 7000 has such a messed up shape that it was either made for your hand and it fits or it doesn't at all because of how much ergonomic it is. The most simple designs without insane ergonomic features fit best most people and with different grips. Personally, avoid Naos 7000, bad shape, soft coating doesn't last a day, button heights are terrible, sensor sucked, ... that was my experience with it.

QCK was fine but it used to wear out on the edges.
Roccat Taito is shiny and more fine surface but not all sensors can deal with the shine :/ It's more smooth but after use it's no faster than QCK.

Most pads are made in various sizes and thickness.


----------



## Telanor

Looking to replace my G5 which is getting pretty worn out

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
1250 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
Would prefer $50 but will probably have to stretch to $60
Do you want additional buttons?
Must have forward/back buttons on the left side. A mouse with a sensitivity toggle/"sniper" button would be preferred.
What games do you play?
Everything but FPS
Do you mind about prediction?
No clue
Needs to be wired
I'd like a mouse with a scrollwheel that can toggle between the normal scroll mode and the "infiscroll" or whatever they call that new scroll mode where you can spin the scrollwheel and it will continue rotating after you let go. I'd also prefer a flat scrollwheel, the rounded one the G5 has can be a bit uncomfortable to press. Also the quieter the mouse, the better.

Example of what I don't want: I have a CM Storm devastator at work and its awful. The shell and buttons are square with sharp edges, making it unpleasant to use/hold. The "coating" feels cheap and accumulates gunk, requiring scraping every few days. I want a coating that doesn't get sticky and require frequent cleaning.


----------



## Bashslash

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

My Grip style is calm/palm hybrid, although more of a palm style grip

Most common sens would be about 400 DPI 2.83 sens

40 ish(maybe a little bump?)

I can live with or without them

CS:GO(mainly), TF2(for funsies0 and other games like Gmod etc

Dont give me any of that crap, prediction accel etc

Pretty small hands: 16 cm range, but for an example i am able to reach past the scroll wheel of a kinzu v2 pro, im a right handler so ambidextrous or mice suited for right handlers. I really like lightweight mice and onboard memory could be a msut to me


----------



## hza

@Telanor I'd say try G502, but I don't know exactly what you mean by flat mwheel. Its wheel offers freespin mode, however. The kind of coating you describe... That mostly depends on you, if you have fast sweaty hands and whatnot, so to speak. If you have the possibility, go to a computer store and try out some mice.


----------



## Telanor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @Telanor I'd say try G502, but I don't know exactly what you mean by flat mwheel. Its wheel offers freespin mode, however. The kind of coating you describe... That mostly depends on you, if you have fast sweaty hands and whatnot, so to speak. If you have the possibility, go to a computer store and try out some mice.


I went to fry's electronics and bestbuy. Neither had any mice on display, just in packages. The g502 has the kind of flat mousewheel I'm looking for. I don't know about its shape though, it doesn't look like it'd be comfortable to hold. Also the g502 is $80. I can't really justify that kind of money for a mouse...


----------



## Karmafunkz313

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karmafunkz313*
> 
> 1-What's your grip style?
> Either palm or fingertip grip, i think leaning toward fingertip but it varies as the game gets more intensive
> 2-What's you sensitivity?
> With basic mouse like "Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse v2.0", I usually try to set everything on max/high both in Windows and ingame. For more modern mouses, for example Logitech g600 for MMOs, Wow specifically, i would usually go around 1800 to 2400, depending on surface (with windows/ingame options set on max). I would usually need to set it on lower in Fps games.
> 3-What's you maximum budget?
> I'm aiming for 40,60 eu, but willing to go for 100eu if needed or more, I just really need to be sure I won't need to change that mouse in a year or two. I'm usually carefull when using them, though i use them extensively, since i game a lot, and mostly multiplayer/competitive.
> 4-Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes, the only problem is, I don't want them to hinder, slow my gaming down, even though I'm willing to spend months of practice getting used to them if needed, like I did with g600 MMO, but i had a very bitter experience with it. For one, I have big hands, but I don't feel any benefit from a big mouse, or a heavy one (i wouldn't mind heavy, but big deffinitely bothers me) and from my experience even though g600 had like 12 buttons on the side, I only felt i could use 6 of them with my thumb at any given time, but then again, they required too much force to effectively use them for anything except some things that werent important to be used the exact moment I needed them to be used. I didn't mind the amount of pressure needed to activate the side buttons was high, but they made my cursor move to the side when i press them. I would rather have 4-6 buttons on the side,or 2 on both sides, or even 2, but if i was 100% sure they were easy to use quick and without making my mouse loose precision by requiring too much force to press, therefore moving my cursor to the side every time i pressed them.
> 5-What games do you play?
> Moba's, used to play a lot of fps competitively and was good at it, like CS series but before CS:GO went out, now I'm getting used to CS:GO too after a long break, and RTS, and MMOs. I'm looking for something that is deffinitely gonna be capable for competitive multiplayer games, and if possible also viable for MMO pvp (therefore the possible need for maybe additional mouse buttons aside the 2 on the side, I'm contemplating maybe getting the ambidextrious editions even though I'm right handed, just for the 2 extra buttons on the right side, though I'm afraid if they will be too weirdly shaped, but old Microsoft mouse seems pretty even on both sides, even though it doesn't have ambidextrious in it's name, so i figure it wouldn't be a problem if I need it)
> 6-Do you mind prediction?
> Tbh completely, i am everyday, at least few hours gamer looking to go back to competitive, and had some good experience in the past, but completely noob about technology. I would like to avoid acceleration of any kind, and idk what prediction is (I'm assuming something that forces your mouse to follow a straight line when you move it, to help you draw or smth) so idk if it hinders you in competitive games, then yes I would avoid it. If it's any kind of a: good for you if not experienced, bad if you are experienced; i would rather avoid prediction and just put in the work to get used to playing without it, if it gives you any sort of edge.
> 7-
> Don't care about colors or any additional features, popularity or novelty, just need precision and ergonomics and as much as necessary extra buttons for serious gaming (if that means a good mouse for moba/fps/rts would be bad for MMO pvp, I'm willing to sacrifice extra buttons if they'll hinderance in moba/fps/rts; if there's a universal mouse for competitive gaming in all, then great). I'm willing to change my grip and stuff about the way i play, if the best possible mouse requires it, just need to know I'm making a good purchase. I'm not a cheap(too much), I just don't live in a country where I can resend something or exchange it if I don't like it easily, so I would like to get it right on 2nd time(since i wasn't really happy with g600, that was my first time purchase of modern mouses) that's all. If i could get something that has the shape of Microsoft basic optical mouse v2.0, but additional buttons for sniping, and higher sensitivity, and (only if possible) few more buttons for MMO pvp, that would be perfect, but the MMO part I'm willing to sacrifice and just play without more extra buttons if they're like g600, which I felt was a great idea, but messing up your precision and overall just badly done in practice.
> Again, sorry for my complete ignorance about technology, and thx for any advice you can give in advance. Again, I would have been perfectly happy with g600, if pressing the side buttons didnt move the cursor, even after a year of getting used to, since those side buttons required too much force. 2nd, I'm not sure about it's precision when it comes to FPS/MOBA games.
> 8
> Ah right. I'm looking for mousepad too


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fixxxer86*
> 
> I think that the logitech g502 will be a great choice. It has plenty of buttons, one of the best sensors in the market and it is comfortable to use. I've used it for a while and I liked it a lot, the only problem for me was the weight and size (it is a little bit long and I have small hands),I couldn't reach all buttons properly. Anyways, you said that you have big hands, so I think it will a good choice for you.


Decided to update, next time I'll make it more concise if I post again before buying. Thx for the suggestion about logitech g502, I had already thought about it and it looks like one of the 5-6 mouses I would most likely choose to buy. I checked it out again, and ergonomically it looks very weird, which was the problem I had with g500 MMO edition, but if it's possible to get used to it, and if it won't gimp me in games like FPS type or MOBA's/RTS, that's great. I need literally every milisec of advantage I can get tbh, so bad choice would make me have to wait at least a few months, up to a year.
I was also thinking about getting some kind of a successor to famous MX518, or MX518 itself if i can find one that's new. I think this website made a list somewhere, or some maybe I found it somewhere else not sure, of mouses precision sorted from best to last in top 20 or something like that. MX518 rated as 2nd as far as i remember. They were taking some technical stuff into account like, it was very important that it doesn't have acceleration, that it's not wireless or laser, they had to be optical and wired, which from my exp too is best for a mouse, and I'm definitely not gonna buy anything that's laser or wireless or has any sort of acceleration (unless I can turn it off via software). But w/e is good for aiming and has all necessary buttons like sniping one if needed, or to change between dpi 1 setting and dpi 2 settings on the fly, and at the same time doesn't lack buttons for competitive play in other genres, and is ergonomically usable, is good for me. Good thing about g502 you suggested is that it's available in the stores here, since I live in a country where they don't have all the mouses on the market, usually only a part of them, is that I will be able to go and try it out first before I buy, even if I order directly online from Amazon, since prices here are jacked up. A 60 eu or idk how many dollars mouse, costs about twice as much here, even though the stores buy on wholesale discount and the importing is like +20% to the original price of what you're buying, they still make the prices unrealistically high, so it pays off more to just order it online from another country, even if you have to pay for shipping and whatnot.
As for the big hands, yep i do have them, but nothing beats the classical design of old mouses to me, like the microsoft optical one. And i never felt that big hands benefit from larger mouses at all, you still want your mouse to be regular size and as light as possible (weight i don't mind if it weights a little, just enough so that you can feel it like an extension of your hand, but not heavy def). Anyway I'm gonna go to the store today and try a couple of new mouses today, and then order 1 from home, since here they charge 2-3x more than they actually cost via amazon or in stores in the West. Idk if anyone knows, if I order something to Serbia via Amazon, and they ship to here, what extra costs will Amazon charge me aside from the mouse price?
Most important, if anyone got any other suggestions, like I said, need a really good mouse for competitive gameplay in both fps/moba/rts and mmo genre(the reason i may need more than just 2 buttons on the side, but I'm willing to sacrifice the MMO additional buttons if it messes up with ergonomics or precision of the mouse), I also need a new monitor, since i just recently learned that 120/144hz really becomes important and fares lot better than 60hz monitors. I have a really good monitor, just bought it recently, but then i figured out after searching online, that 60fps is pretty much only good for single player and casual gameplay. Also, been meaning to buy a mechanical keyboard for years, though this part i figure is the least important, but it still helps since it reacts faster, so any suggestions for more mouses/monitor 144hz/and mechanical keyboard are welcome. I've seen they've been adding configurable 5-button row on the left end in the latest corsair/razer/logitech generation, next to the caps lock/shift/tab row, are they reachable fast or just get in the way?. I also read that corsair was the brand that came up first with the mechanical buttons all companies use today, so they all order cherry mx thing from corsair even for their own keyboards that they sell, does that automatically mean i should only check out corsair mechanical keyboards, or are other's worth checking out too? Thx a lot anyway for info, I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## Twiffle

I can't really decide on a mouse for myself. I love the shape of SteelSeries Sensei. My hand is 17,5 cm length and 8-8,5cm width . Currently trying to decide between Kana V2, Zowie FK2 , Razer Abyssus and even Kinzu V3


----------



## Nerish

What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
2500-3000 at this moment because of fingertip grip
What's your maximum budget?
~$100 - of course it will be cheaper
Do you want additional buttons?
Not really, maybe side buttons but i can live without them. It is pretty hard to use side buttons with fingertip grip. With or without - doesn't matter.
What games do you play?
Mostly RTS(Age of Empires, Company of Heroes), MOBA and sometimes H&S(Diablo, PoE etc.)
Do you mind about prediction?
Huh? I am not native speaker so don't know. Precision? Yes.
Other relevant information:
Currently I am using Logitech G303 but ergonomics of this mouse isn't great. Why is it so hard to make good mouse with good ergonomics and good sensor? For real. Corsair Katar looks interesting but... sensor sucks.

I bet that they are doing it on purpose







.


----------



## vanSCHYNEYDER

which is the name of this mice ?


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanSCHYNEYDER*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which is the name of this mice ?


Sensei


----------



## vanSCHYNEYDER

Nah, after more search there is the official page :
http://www.multilaser.com.br/produtos/detalhe/MO228/.html


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanSCHYNEYDER*
> 
> Nah, after more search there is the official page :
> http://www.multilaser.com.br/produtos/detalhe/MO228/.html


It looks like a Newmen GX1 Glare, but with a different color. Probably the exact same OEM.
I can guess that the sensor is an A3050 or smth low-end like that.

http://www.kabum.com.br/produto/66491/mouse-multilaser-com-led-usbprateado-mo228
Pretty cheap, 90brl = $22 or so. I think I'll buy it later, just to see if it sucks as much as I think it does


----------



## Seveneyes

What's your grip style?
Palm
What's your sensitivity?
Don't mind - I generally am happy playing with the "best DPI for the mouse". I currently run 800/1,000 sensitivity.
What's your maximum budget?
£100
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes - specifically I really love the "numpad on the side" style - although I'd welcome looking at alternatives.
What games do you play?
I actually play a good number of games - some of the key 'current' ones: csgo/world of tanks/h1z1/gta5
Do you mind about prediction?
No - as I'm a csgo player I want absolute precision and I believe prediction removes that? (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
Other relevant information:
I have quite small hands - I recently tried the Corsair Scimitar and it was much too big for my hand (or at least what I'm used to) and gave me hand-ache.
It's worth mentioning that my current mouse is a first gen Razer Naga (the one with the 2 useless buttons to left of the left mouse button. I am extremely happy with it (besides those 2 buttons..) but the right click is starting to act up. When I hold it down it will sometimes release - which is why I'm looking for a replacement.

I'm sorely tempted by just upgrading to the Naga 2014 - but interested to hear other opinions.


----------



## asp93

still worth to get a DA 3.5g? wich is better DA 3.5g, cm alcor or evga torq x3 in terms of sensor implementation?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asp93*
> 
> still worth to get a DA 3.5g? wich is better DA 3.5g, cm alcor or evga torq x3 in terms of sensor implementation?


If you're concerned about sensor get a DA '13/Chroma.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If you're worried about sensor get G502 or G303


----------



## Avant Garde

What is the best choice of these?

-Mionix Castor

-Logitech G400S

-Zowie ZA11

-Steelseries Sensei


----------



## falcon26

I have the Castor and the Zowie. I am a fingertip/claw grip user. The castor by far is one of the most comfortable mouses I have ever used. I also love how the software for it doesn't actually get installed on your system, its just an exe file that you click and when done close it out. The only grip I have about it is, you can't choose a white led. No matter what settings you use in the RGB box you can never really get white. I also have big hands.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avant Garde*
> 
> What is the best choice of these?
> 
> -Mionix Castor
> 
> -Logitech G400S
> 
> -Zowie ZA11
> 
> -Steelseries Sensei


ZA mice feel the best for me (18.5cm) hands, but I can't live with the clicks. Hard to spam & wrist pain galore.


----------



## Avant Garde

Mine are 20cm and my grip is mostly claw type.


----------



## pgmichael

1. What's your grip style?

Claw/Palm hybrid. Relaxed fingers, but only the bottom of my palm is touching the butt of the mouse (the bottom of my wrist touches the mouse pad for added control).

2. What's your sensitivity?

The higher the DPI, the better. I use external mouse accel drivers and the bigger the DPI, the more accurate the movement. Currently using 3200dpi on my cougar 300m.

3. What's your maximum budget?

70$ including shipping; must be available in Canada.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

2 side buttons, no less.

5. What games do you play?

CS:GO and other casual games.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Yes, I don't want any.

7. Other relevant information:

Mat finish. 1:1 tracking. Previous mouse I had: Roccat Savu (too small, side button and hole for the thumb awkward, scroll wheel and shift+ button on mouse excellent), SS rival (a bit too big, front side button out of reach, bump on the right side of the mouse hurts, heavy), intelli mouse 3.0 (too big, cable too rigid, side button are trash, right side of the buttom of the mouse stabs on the bottom of my hand when retracting the mouse causing it to lift and discomfort), cougar 300m (same issue with the bottom of the mouse on the right side, a bit heavy, cable too rigid)


----------



## rpalmer92

To anyone that has used both the Alcor and the Rival 100, which would you suggest I get? 19cm hands, claw grip and 34cm/360 (400dpi, 3 ingame). On paper the Alcor appears to be better spec wise but I'm starting to go away from specs and focus more on shape and comfort as long as it has a usable sensor and the Rival 100 looks to have the better shape.


----------



## Gamefreak565

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avant Garde*
> 
> What is the best choice of these?
> 
> -Mionix Castor
> 
> -Logitech G400S
> 
> -Zowie ZA11
> 
> -Steelseries Sensei


I've tried three of these mice already, I can tell you that the build quality for the Sensei is complete garbage. The ZZA11 is a bit better, but not a standard that I can recommend.

Personally I'd say it's between the Castor and the G400S, bother are good mice in their own right.

If I had to choose, I'd pick the Mionix Castor because it has a 3310 sensor, which will probably perform better in most cases when compared to the G400S, also, the ergos appear to be better. I haven't used this particular mouse, but I have used the G400S and can vouch for it's build quality. It's not my daily driver because I couldn't get a comfortable grip on it (I have a weird hybrid grip), but I'll still recognize it as a good mouse.


----------



## Gamefreak565

deleted (double post)


----------



## kackbratze

How bad is the sensei RAW rubberless for FPS? Is the acceleration because of the laser sensor really that bad?


----------



## Gamefreak565

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> How bad is the sensei RAW rubberless for FPS? Is the acceleration because of the laser sensor really that bad?


To be honest with you I didn't notice acceleration on the Sensei raw, if it's there, there isn't much of it.

Where the Sensei suffers the most is it's build quality and design. The buttons are placed so that you'll constantly press them due to the ambidextrous design. Also, the side buttons feel cheap.

I didn't experience this issue, but a few of my friends found that the scroll wheel of the mouse rattles after a bit of use. Steelseries can be notorious for it's QA, and I don't think I can really recommend any of their lineup (at least for mice).


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> How bad is the sensei RAW rubberless for FPS? Is the acceleration because of the laser sensor really that bad?


Well, it's pretty noticeable for me. Maybe you won't notice it until you try it out on a private server, but the acceleration is still there.
Even if you don't notice it, why would you buy a mouse with that problem? Also, the build quality is pretty bad and the scrollwheel sucks, both of my Sensei RAWs had a problem that the scrollwheel would jump to the opposite side that I'm scrolling, and it's a known problem apparently...

If you really like the Sensei shape, I'd recommend you the Newmen GX1 Pro, Xtrfy M2 or even a Kana v2. There's also a few other alternatives like the Mionix Avior 7000 or the Zowie FK1, but they're not that similar to the Sensei RAW.


----------



## paradoxals

Which mouse is the lightest in weight of the new Benq Zowie lineup? Grip doesn't doesn't matter to me, I can use both palm and claw.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxals*
> 
> Which mouse is the lightest in weight of the new Benq Zowie lineup? Grip doesn't doesn't matter to me, I can use both palm and claw.


FK1 = 90g
FK2 = 85g

ZA11 = 90g
ZA12 = 85g
ZA13 = 80g

EC1-A = 97g
EC2-A = 93g

they are all freaking lightweight..


----------



## Scarlet Evans

I am looking for a mouse to play *osu!* with. It should require very, very low click activation force and be suited for very rapid and precise movements with fingertips grip.


*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip grip. I hold my mouse mainly with 3 fingers: Thumb, small one (pinky) and ring finger. The index and middle finger are usually placed at the very steep angle on the mouse, sometimes reaching even 75-90 degrees, and they are supporting my grip for now on. But, the main burden is placed on the formentioned 3 fingers.

I would like to use my index and middle fingers for clicking, but my current cheap-mouse requires putting too much force into clicking the buttons, making it useless for clicking. So, I use it mostly for pointing and click with keyboard.

*What's your sensitivity?*

I currently have 1000 DPI mouse, 1366x768 screen resolution and I am using: 8/11 (which is x2) sensitivity in Windows with "Enhance Pointer Precision" turned off; Raw Input with x2.00 sensitivity in game, no mouse acceleration desired. (I never know what future will bring, so I don't mind if mouse had software allowing for some adjustments, but as I am not going to risk my muscle memory any soon --> I don't really need this.)

*What's your maximum budget?*

I don't know. I don't reall care, as I still have an abundance of place for improvement without a need to rely on mouse clicks and use it only as a pointer. I will be worring about the price and gathering money, when I will find a mouse that will be worth it. Maybe I will forfeit the most expensive options, but I can put some money into it.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Nope, only 2 buttons + scroll is enough, the rest can be omitted. I want the mouse with shape that will allow for firm fingertip grip and very rapid movements.

*What games do you play?*

"Osu!" Aside osu!, I also play.. nahh, just joking, I only play osu! =)

If you don't know what that game it is, then in short: "osu!" is a rhythmic game, which main gameplay mode requires clicking appearing circles at right time, in rhythm of the music. There are also sliders = dragging the cursor between two circles in fixed path, and spinners = spinning cursor rapidly in circles. Check the video below for an example of osu! gameplay:






In osu!, you need exetremely rapid and precise cursor movements. More rapid and precise that in any other game I played (people are making beatmaps for it, so by increasing difficulty you always could push anyone to the limits of physical limitations for a human being). Because of that, almost everyone uses keyboard for clicking. Althought majority of top players use drawing tablet for pointing, instead of mouse, both mouse and tablet players use their pointing devices almost only for pointing. But, I believe that with proper mouse and perfect synchronisation of both hands, it would be possible to reach the highest possible performance tier, as you could greatly increase clicking speed (but at the same time, you must to maintain cursor movement precision at it's max!!)

The main problem with mouse is that if you keep clicking on your mouse, then your grip gets less stable. Your precision and accuracy drops down. Even the smallest recoil can be deadly for flawless gameplay, especially that you usually need like 5-10 or more clicks in single second, sometimes even much more. The button you click with doesn't matter, but you can use only 2 keyboard keys (let's call them K1 & K2) and 2 mouse keys (M1 & M2). K1 is euqivalent to M1 and K2 is equivalent to M2, so you can't click K1, if you are already holding down M1, etc. Nevertheless, with good synchronisation, you could alternate them. You most likely need to alternate them, at least M1 & M2, to reach desired clicking speed, but with proper mouse you could alternate with 3-4 fingers, instead of only 2.

Players usually just use both keyboard keys, but my goal is to learn playing both with mouse and keyboard, alternating them properly. So, I need the mouse that needs minimal amount of force needed to click the main mouse buttons (don't need any other keys aside 2 main + scroll). *I need the mouse that will allow me to click with barely touching the buttons, allowing for many rapid clicks in the single second, but also still giving a possibility to gently put a fingers on it, without resulting in a click.* Following the third Newton's law of motion, the more force I need to click the mouse button, the more negatively it will affect my precise cursor movement.

Mouse latency is important too. The faster reaction time, the better it would be, but I believe it's secondary. You can reach heavens with normal mouse, so I believe that any good gaming mouse will be better than my cheap-mouse. Also, if you know the beatmap in the game, you can get used to the lag and work it out, adjusting your own reaction. The main objective I want to fulfill is what I mentioned above - to minimize force needed for mouse clicks, so you can just gently tap the button and get a click.









*Do you mind about prediction?*

I don't understant what does it mean. You are going to predict what mouse will be the best for me? Or it's some kind of movement/tremor correction that some mouses offer? If the latter, then I don't need that. Precision of my movement is priceless, it could be bad for improving and perfecting my perception and muscle memory, if something would keep adjusting/correcting/changing/accelerating cursor movement in some unnatural or incomprehensible for me manner.
I must to feel it, I must to move instinctively, there's no time for thinking.

*Other relevant information:*

I think that I kind of explained my needs, no idea for further informations right now. :] I think that mouse for that kind of gameplay should be relatively light, right? And medium size, I don't need a tank in my hand, while too small mouse could be too uncomfortable and not really suited for my big palm. Also, I heard that some people play osu! with Razer DeathAdder, as it requires low activation force, but I never had it in my hands yet. I also heard that it's not really that good for that and I believe that it will require too much force in comparison to what I need. How low this force is? *I need a really minimal force, while clicking with my steep angled fingers, but not so infinitesimal like some touchpads - I still should be physically able to put my fingers on the mouse without resulting in the click.*


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scarlet Evans*
> 
> I am looking for a mouse to play *osu!* with. It should require very, very low click activation force and be suited for very rapid and precise movements with fingertips grip.
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip grip. I hold my mouse mainly with 3 fingers: Thumb, small one (pinky) and ring finger. The index and middle finger are usually placed at the very steep angle on the mouse, sometimes reaching even 75-90 degrees, and they are supporting my grip for now on. But, the main burden is placed on the formentioned 3 fingers.
> 
> I would like to use my index and middle fingers for clicking, but my current cheap-mouse requires putting too much force into clicking the buttons, making it useless for clicking. So, I use it mostly for pointing and click with keyboard.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> I currently have 1000 DPI mouse, 1366x768 screen resolution and I am using: 8/11 (which is x2) sensitivity in Windows with "Enhance Pointer Precision" turned off; Raw Input with x2.00 sensitivity in game, no mouse acceleration desired. (I never know what future will bring, so I don't mind if mouse had software allowing for some adjustments, but as I am not going to risk my muscle memory any soon --> I don't really need this.)[/B]


Logitech G303


----------



## loki993

What's your grip style?

Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?

800
What's your maximum budget?

doesn't really matter..under 100 probably

Do you want additional buttons?

Yes need at least 2 on the left, but I would like more. Something like the MIONIX where I can program all six buttons would be nice
What games do you play?

FPS, BF4 WOW
Do you mind about prediction?

Yes..none
Other relevant information:
I use Ambi mice, I hate the way ergo mice feel, they dont work with my grip at all.

I currently use a Zowie FK2 and it's great...for FPS. Since I started playing WOW I need more buttons and the stiff buttons are bothering my fingers a bit. Again never a problem in FPS games for me. Also id like to be able to use the new mouse for FPS too though not totally necessary I suppose.

Right now Im looking at the MIONIX Avior and Roccat Kone Pure Military Not sure what other ambis are out there with a fairly normal shape and fully programmable buttons.

EDIT: just figured out the KPM doesn't have right side buttons, for some reason I thought it did. Heavily leaning towards the Avior now.

Anything with 4 left side buttons that isn't an ergo mouse?

I don't think something like a naga is necessary but may by worth a try...also the Roccat Nyth are interesting but the also both have laser sensors and Im not really interested in that. Also I probably wouldn't like the shape either.


----------



## Scarlet Evans

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Logitech G303


Thank you for advice, this mouse really looks awesome and surely is heaps better than my current mouse. I probably could make a good use of it, but I can't confirm in the internet if it's what I am really looking for. Could you, or anyone, tell me something more about how much force you need to put into clicking?

I heard that, in general, the low force necessary to click is often cited as a negative point in reviews, but after watching few reviews of this mouse, no one even mentioned how much pressure you need to click the button. Maybe I am watching the wrong reviews?
Also, I tried to search for technical informations about it, but it's nowhere to find how much of force you need to activate the buttons. Even on the logitech page, there's completely nothing about that:

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303

Even though I was trying to google it, I couldn't even find any mouses comparison that included the force needed for click. Doesn't people care much about this? Or they just don't really play games in which this matters that much? It's very important for me, so I would really appreciate the help in this matter^^. Don't take my words as an exaggeration, I really need something very sensitive, to the extend that some people could probably accidentally click the mouse, if they were not get used to it.

Why I am asking for reconfirmation?

I tried to look for informations about Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex in many places, but no one mentions anything about this mouse being extremely sensitive for clicking. What's more, after watching on youtube some people playing with this mouse, it kind of looks like within boundary of "normal clicks" for me, but it's impossible to just tell it by watching videos, so they really tells me nothing. Does it really requires as low activation force as I mentioned in my previous post? I wish I could try this mouse myself, but it looks like none of my friends have it








Maybe I should try visiting some computer shops? But most of them will probably have only unpacked mouses, I wonder if I will try some place where I will be able to hold this mouse.

I heard about touch mouses like Apple Mighty Mouse or Microsoft Touch Mouse, but it looks like they are not only completely not suited for extreme gaming, but they even have a problem with clicking 2 buttons at the same time. Or maybe there are some touch mouses dedicated for gamers? I couldn't find them, but to be honest I don't know nothing about what really happens on mouses market and what different brands have to offer, so this is why I am asking here .


----------



## Nerish

What is better - Logitech G303 or Steelseries Rival?


----------



## wes1099

I am looking to get a new mouse. Not because I need a new one, but because I like adding mice to my collection. So far I have a WMO, an intellimouse 3.0 legends, a deathadder 2013, a rocccat kone xtd optical. I have liked them all but each one has its own issues. The intellimouse scroll wheel becomes super smooth over time and gets super sensitive, occasionally registering unwanted scrolling. The side buttons are also super loose and smushy to go along with the rather lame feeling build quality. I do however love the shape and weight of the intellimouse, it feels good to hold it. The deathadder coating wears off rather quickly, its cable turns to crap after a while when it frays and catches on things, its side buttons are not great (slightly mushy, occasionally get stuck. Basically a slight upgrade to the IMO), and the deathadder scroll wheel gets loose over time and ends up with a slot of wiggle room in between scroll steps. The deathadder shape and feel is great for me too but something rattles in it. The WMO is just not for me (too small, no side buttons, strange switches). The roccat kone xtd optical is nice but the shape is not my favorite (I am not a fan of the little groove on the left for your thumb), however the kone xtd side buttons are great and the scroll wheel is the best I have ever felt.

Recently I have been looking at the deathadder chroma, EC1-A, mionix naos 7000,and the finalmouse. Which one do you guys think I should go for.

I use 400dpi 2.5 sens in csgo 6/11 windows sens, I prefer palm grip, my hand is 17.5cm, acceleration is a no, prediction is bad, and I like to have 2 side buttons to use for push to talk (1 for TeamSpeak and one for in game). I play lots more than csgo but csgo is the only game I play that gives a relatable number. Which mouse do you guys think I should go for?


----------



## icemonkey

I've had a Steelseries Kana V2 for about a year now, and it's starting to die a little. Anybody know something that's roughly the same shape, for around £50? Actual specs don't really matter too much, I'd prefer optical, and I want to pay around £40-50, Any suggestions? Thanks


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scarlet Evans*
> 
> Thank you for advice, this mouse really looks awesome and surely is heaps better than my current mouse. I probably could make a good use of it, but I can't confirm in the internet if it's what I am really looking for. Could you, or anyone, tell me something more about how much force you need to put into clicking?
> 
> I heard that, in general, the low force necessary to click is often cited as a negative point in reviews, but after watching few reviews of this mouse, no one even mentioned how much pressure you need to click the button. Maybe I am watching the wrong reviews?
> Also, I tried to search for technical informations about it, but it's nowhere to find how much of force you need to activate the buttons. Even on the logitech page, there's completely nothing about that:
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303
> 
> Even though I was trying to google it, I couldn't even find any mouses comparison that included the force needed for click. Doesn't people care much about this? Or they just don't really play games in which this matters that much? It's very important for me, so I would really appreciate the help in this matter^^. Don't take my words as an exaggeration, I really need something very sensitive, to the extend that some people could probably accidentally click the mouse, if they were not get used to it.


I don't think you can find it because I dont think its something people actually notice unless its very out of the ordinary. Plus people usually prefer lighter clicks to heavier ones. Take Zowie mice for example...people always complain that the buttons are too stiff with the Huanos they used to use. Was the main complaint of their mice....it was different so worth mentioning.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scarlet Evans*
> 
> Thank you for advice, this mouse really looks awesome and surely is heaps better than my current mouse. I probably could make a good use of it, but I can't confirm in the internet if it's what I am really looking for. Could you, or anyone, tell me something more about how much force you need to put into clicking? [/URL]


They are light, very light. Clicking is no issue and you can still put your fingers on it gently without it pressing down. However you can tap it easily. It has huge buttons and can be clicked anywhere, there is no shell that gives resistance, just enough for the mouse to not constantly click by itself.


----------



## Scarlet Evans

I am glad to hear it







I will try to look for Logitech G303 then, as I find more and more good words about it. Maybe it will be satisfying for me









But from curiosity, does anyone know what exactly its actuation force is? I found some mouses with 45g, which is too high for me, but I suppose G303's actuation force is much lower?

Also, in case of Logitech G303 being too hard for me to click (I hope it will be good though, especially after what I read about this mouse^^), do you know some mouses with adjustable click force? I found only Razer Mamba, which can be adjusted between 45g - 95g, but 45g is definitely a no-no for me. It's just too high for my needs


----------



## hza

@Scarlet Evans From the known "gaming brands" it's the only mouse that can do that afaik.

@loki993 If the buttons are your only concern with FK2 buy a new FK2 (new RED Zowie logo) since BenQ exchanged the Huano switches with Omron switches, you know. Other than that have a look into new Roccat Kiro. You can have side buttons on both sides, if you want.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The Razer Spectre had adjustable click force on the m1 button. It was useless and the mouse was terrible.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @loki993 If the buttons are your only concern with FK2 buy a new FK2 (new RED Zowie logo) since BenQ exchanged the Huano switches with Omron switches, you know. Other than that have a look into new Roccat Kiro. You can have side buttons on both sides, if you want.


Well part of it is I want more buttons too..other ambi mice let you program both sides. Also a lot of other nice have 1 or 2 buttons on top as well.

Second I thought the same thing about the omron's but saw the review here where the guy tested it and they're not really any lighter. The shape of the mouse is what makes the buttons stiff not the actual buttons.

Kiro looks interesting but it seems to have an inferior sensor...I thought I mentioned it..but id only be interested in mice with the 3310 sensor..or the new 3360 bot who know even when a mouse will be out with that....There is the rival 700 but I think I want to see what else comes. Plus its right handed.


----------



## Ban13

Hello mouse people. I'm in the market for a new mouse, if I can find one.

*Palm size:* 18.5cm long, 8.5cm wide.
*Grip:* Palm/ claw hybrid, more palm like than claw like.

*Past mice:*
Zowie FK1:
I loved the coating, low weight and responsiveness. The shape was too narrow, too low and the clicks were to hard for me.

Zowie EC1-A
Shape seems perfect for my hands, perhaps 2mm wider or 1mm higher would be even better. I hated the coating (made my hands sweat) and it was too heavy.

After switching from EC1-A back to FK1 mid game I noticed the EC1-A has some input lag. Not enough that I'd ever notice it otherwise, but when I made the switch my brain had to adjust to it (felt like I was seeing double for a few minutes). Within 5min my flicks and taps in CSGO became a lot more effortless (but tracking aim became harder). This has made it hard for me to settle for the EC1-A again and so I'm looking for something else.

I've already ordered the ZA11, but I'm guessing it's going to be too narrow for me. Probably still a better compromise for the time being.

Please let me know if there are mice with the shape similar to EC1-A but lower weight and no input lag.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ban13*
> 
> Hello mouse people. I'm in the market for a new mouse, if I can find one.
> 
> *Palm size:* 18.5cm long, 8.5cm wide.
> *Grip:* Palm/ claw hybrid, more palm like than claw like.
> 
> *Past mice:*
> Zowie FK1:
> I loved the coating, low weight and responsiveness. The shape was too narrow, too low and the clicks were to hard for me.
> 
> Zowie EC1-A
> Shape seems perfect for my hands, perhaps 2mm wider or 1mm higher would be even better. I hated the coating (made my hands sweat) and it was too heavy.
> 
> After switching from EC1-A back to FK1 mid game I noticed the EC1-A has some input lag. Not enough that I'd ever notice it otherwise, but when I made the switch my brain had to adjust to it (felt like I was seeing double for a few minutes). Within 5min my flicks and taps in CSGO became a lot more effortless (but tracking aim became harder). This has made it hard for me to settle for the EC1-A again and so I'm looking for something else.
> 
> I've already ordered the ZA11, but I'm guessing it's going to be too narrow for me. Probably still a better compromise for the time being.
> 
> Please let me know if there are mice with the shape similar to EC1-A but lower weight and no input lag.


That sounds like a very, very weird issue.. input lag??? Sensor in EC1-A and FK1 is completely the same, they shouldn't be that much different in performance, only in shape. Also the EC1-A is 97g, while the FK1 is 90g... and the EC2-A is 93g, so not that far from the FK1... not sure if you meant the input lag is from the FK1? because they kinda have hard buttons.

As to answer your question directly, after having bought a tons of mice myself, I definitely feel like the Razer Deathadder Chroma is going to suit you best, if not, and you want a slightly smaller, then I'd say go for the EC2-A as it weights less than the EC1. Few more good candidates are the Finalmouse, and the Steelseries Rival 300.

Few complains about the build quality of the finalmouse, I haven't tried it personally, so I can't say... and I know a lot of people, including pro csgo players that love the Rival 300, so I think you should look into that aswell, if you prefer big mice. My top list for you atm:

1. Deathadder Chroma
2. SteelSeries Rival 300
3. FinalMouse (2016 is on the way, might wait for it before you buy the older version)
4. Zowie EC2-A (Just for the sake of less weight, but it's smaller than the EC1.. so yeah.. not sure.

-

As for the ZA11.. It surely is a good mouse, but imo I wouldn't say it's better than the FK or the EC1-A... the buttons on the ZA is almost completely the same as the FK1, but it sits better in the hand for palm grip than the FK does, thats for sure, however the EC series is more comfortable for palm.

-


----------



## Ban13

Nope, not click latency but straight up input lag. I just checked Zowie EC thread on here and several other people also mentioned this input lag.

DA and Rival are both too heavy while FinalMouse is too small for me. Maybe my wishes are too optimistic - bigger mouse, but weighing less... Probably not going to find a perfect one







ZA11 seems like a good compromise since it's as light as the FK1 but bigger, I should get it tomorrow.


----------



## mitavreb

Hmm, I use the EC1-A, I don't notice any input lag. What I could feel is that there's some smoothing because sometimes the sensor is floaty.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> That sounds like a very, very weird issue.. input lag??? Sensor in EC1-A and FK1 is completely the same, they shouldn't be that much different in performance, only in shape. Also the EC1-A is 97g, while the FK1 is 90g... and the EC2-A is 93g, so not that far from the FK1.


The sensor is supposed to be same on EC and FK series... but EC really feels like it has some sort of input lag... on the other hand FK series seem to be much better. I have myself had 2 different EC1-A's and 1 EC2-A and the sensor in it is a total mess.. it really feels weird compared to other 3310's like Mionix castor as an example which feels totally different and more raw. With EC series the mouse is light alright, but when you play games and move your cursor/crosshair it feels like the cursor is in a mud and you have to drag it.. which makes you to give more effort to aiming than with Mionix Castor as an example.

And it's weird if FK and EC uses exact same sensor/lens . The feel between FK and EC is totally different. Not sure if it has something to do with the positioning. on EC1/2-A thread there's few people also mentioning about this issue... myself included.


----------



## Ban13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> The sensor is supposed to be same on EC and FK series... but EC really feels like it has some sort of input lag... on the other hand FK series seem to be much better. I have myself had 2 different EC1-A's and 1 EC2-A and the sensor in it is a total mess.. it really feels weird compared to other 3310's like Mionix castor as an example which feels totally different and more raw. With EC series the mouse is light alright, but when you play games and move your cursor/crosshair it feels like the cursor is in a mud and you have to drag it.. which makes you to give more effort to aiming than with Mionix Castor as an example.
> 
> And it's weird if FK and EC uses exact same sensor/lens . The feel between FK and EC is totally different. Not sure if it has something to do with the positioning. on EC1/2-A thread there's few people also mentioning about this issue... myself included.


How do the EC1-A or FK1 stack up against the Castor? Does it feel lighter than the EC1-A and is the shape/ grip similar? Thanks!


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ban13*
> 
> How do the EC1-A or FK1 stack up against the Castor? Does it feel lighter than the EC1-A and is the shape/ grip similar? Thanks!


Castor is lighter than EC1-A for sure. As for Castor's shape you can get a nice fingertip or claw grip with it and also Castor is a bit shorter than EC1-A and FK1 . I think FK1 is a bit lighter than Castor, but not by much.

If I'd have to describe the grip castor vs EC1-A... then I'd say Castor feels more natural for me. My hand size is 17.5cm length and 8cm width. I would say it really comes to if you curl your pinky and ring finger while holding a mouse or not. I myself tend to curl my pinky but not my ring finger almost at all. The shape on Castor is a bit similar to EC1-A except Castor has these curves to support your pinky and ring finger which feel very nice.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> The sensor is supposed to be same on EC and FK series... but EC really feels like it has some sort of input lag... on the other hand FK series seem to be much better. I have myself had 2 different EC1-A's and 1 EC2-A and the sensor in it is a total mess.. it really feels weird compared to other 3310's like Mionix castor as an example which feels totally different and more raw. With EC series the mouse is light alright, but when you play games and move your cursor/crosshair it feels like the cursor is in a mud and you have to drag it.. which makes you to give more effort to aiming than with Mionix Castor as an example.
> 
> And it's weird if FK and EC uses exact same sensor/lens . The feel between FK and EC is totally different. Not sure if it has something to do with the positioning. on EC1/2-A thread there's few people also mentioning about this issue... myself included.


Not sure if I agree with all of this. I recently bought a tons of mice, the Castor included and EC2-A by far, is better than all of them combined. The castor was the one feeling weird for me, specielly the weird LOD options, never felt a natural 1:1 ratio that made me play good ingame, it was shaky for me and never got used to it.

EC2-A is the most popular CSGO mouse competitively, and I can totally understand why, so I'm really not sure what kind of input lag you guys are talking about. It's the only mouse I've been able to play incredibly well with, after my G400 died.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Not sure if I agree with all of this. I recently bought a tons of mice, the Castor included and EC2-A by far, is better than all of them combined. The castor was the one feeling weird for me, specielly the weird LOD options, never felt a natural 1:1 ratio that made me play good ingame, it was shaky for me and never got used to it.
> 
> EC2-A is the most popular CSGO mouse competitively, and I can totally understand why, so I'm really not sure what kind of input lag you guys are talking about. It's the only mouse I've been able to play incredibly well with, after my G400 died.


Well for me it feels that you need a lot more effort to aim in CSGO with EC series than with example FK or Mionix Castor. The shakiness you felt could have been due to it being a bit lower profile than other mice you've played with. Could be that there's faulty EC mice out there, but I already had 3 of them, and none of them felt as good as Mionix castor or FK1.

Since I was disappointed of how EC felt to me.. I went and bought Deathadder, and it feels as good as Castor. Don't get that muddy feeling while playing and my crosshair moves where I want it to move... without having to forcibly drag it. I don't know what is it with EC series... it just doesn't feel good. It might be popular and perhaps it feels great to some, but to me and few others it really felt not so good :/

Of course I play with no acceleration and raw input on. Tested on 3 different mouse pads as well. If you like it then, yeah good for you


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Well for me it feels that you need a lot more effort to aim in CSGO with EC series than with example FK or Mionix Castor. The shakiness you felt could have been due to it being a bit lower profile than other mice you've played with. Could be that there's faulty EC mice out there, but I already had 3 of them, and none of them felt as good as Mionix castor or FK1.
> 
> Since I was disappointed of how EC felt to me.. I went and bought Deathadder, and it feels as good as Castor. Don't get that muddy feeling while playing and my crosshair moves where I want it to move... without having to forcibly drag it. I don't know what is it with EC series... it just doesn't feel good. It might be popular and perhaps it feels great to some, but to me and few others it really felt not so good :/
> 
> Of course I play with no acceleration and raw input on. Tested on 3 different mouse pads as well. If you like it then, yeah good for you


Yeah I don't know man, I guess we are all just different.. for me the castor was inconsistent as hell in regards to aiming, while the EC2-A has turned me into a god, currently speed ranking the faceit ladder. As I mentioned, there are about 70 pro csgo players that play with Zowie mice, and about 70-80% of them is the EC2. I've never seen or heard anybody in pro play, having a mionix castor. I could on the other hand get behind that the Deathadder is good, but I didn't like the castor's accuracy.

And I know that pro players aren't necessarily the prophets of mice, but the point here that I'm trying to make is, if there was anything wrong or bad about the EC2, like inputlag or other issues, these players would not play with it, at all. CSGO is one of the few games where aiming is incredibly important, and consistency even more so.

But yeah, I mean if you don't feel good with it, that's up to you, we are all different in the end.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Yeah I don't know man, I guess we are all just different.. for me the castor was inconsistent as hell in regards to aiming, while the EC2-A has turned me into a god, currently speed ranking the faceit ladder. As I mentioned, there are about 70 pro csgo players that play with Zowie mice, and about 70-80% of them is the EC2. I've never seen or heard anybody in pro play, having a mionix castor. I could on the other hand get behind that the Deathadder is good, but I didn't like the castor's accuracy.
> 
> And I know that pro players aren't necessarily the prophets of mice, but the point here that I'm trying to make is, if there was anything wrong or bad about the EC2, like inputlag or other issues, these players would not play with it, at all. CSGO is one of the few games where aiming is incredibly important, and consistency even more so.
> 
> But yeah, I mean if you don't feel good with it, that's up to you, we are all different in the end.


Aiming isn't as important as you think, more so is straight consistency and decision making. Holding angles, so the shape is most important for most pros.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im pretty sure most pros have good aim. Just some are monsters and others are not but they're all in the top 0.1% of aim.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im pretty sure most pros have good aim. Just some are monsters and others are not but they're all in the top 0.1% of aim.


That is what I was getting at. CS is is more of a mind game and Quake is the "aim game".


----------



## delledonne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> That is what I was getting at. CS is is more of a mind game and Quake is the "aim game".


lol no it isn't


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Words.


In the past there was a debate between whether or not the ECx-eVo series (A3090) had input lag on the 450 DPI setting that most of the pros were using, it also notably lowered the max tracking speed iirc (Don't take what I say for fact though, do some of your own research.) yet pros still used it so I don't think that argument is exactly a good one, to each their own though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Words.


I had an EC1-A and I had the same feeling of the cursor dragging, it was almost like something was wrong, there was some huge smoothing on it or something...I don't know but my cursor just felt wrong, it felt so floaty and wavy, it didn't go where I wanted it to, it sort of just went off and did its own thing in the general direction of where I moved it and I also noticed that the tracking on a red pad was very skippy and jittery randomly. I had to replace my mouse pad with a piece of paper to get proper movement, my unit was probably defective though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> That is what I was getting at. CS is is more of a mind game and Quake is the "aim game".


Quake is about map control and reading enemies, if you can read them then you can beat them without even being one of the "best aimers" take a look at Rapha for example, sure his aim is great but that's not what most of his play is based on. CS on the other hand is quite the same, it's about reading your opponent and making the right calls, you don't need good aim in CS:GO to screw with your opponent, if you have good movement you can make screw their aim all up.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im pretty sure most pros have good aim. Just some are monsters and others are not but they're all in the top 0.1% of aim.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I was getting at. CS is is more of a mind game and Quake is the "aim game".
Click to expand...

I feel like CS requires a bit of both but yes quake probably takes more "raw aim" Game sense makes you good but strong mechanical skill separate good from amazing. What use is a well thought out plan if you cant execute it well?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I feel like CS requires a bit of both but yes quake probably takes more "raw aim" Game sense makes you good but strong mechanical skill separate good from amazing. What use is a well thought out plan if you cant execute it well?


Player models are much bigger in Quake and you don't have to go for head shots like in CS. CS is much slower though, but that kind of evens out because you don't have to stop to shoot in Quake.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> CS:GO to screw with your opponent, if you have good movement you can make screw their aim all up.


you mean hold w and shoot tec9 right?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> you mean hold w and shoot tec9 right?


No, it's 2016, we use the P90 as our primary and the R8 as our secondary. Tec9 is SO 2015.








Also I just noticed, I typed "make screw their aim all up" silver grammar skills confirmed.


----------



## bruzanHD

bind w "+forward; +attack; buy weapon_tec9"

That's how everyone plays right?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Yeah I don't know man, I guess we are all just different.. for me the castor was inconsistent as hell in regards to aiming, while the EC2-A has turned me into a god, currently speed ranking the faceit ladder. As I mentioned, there are about 70 pro csgo players that play with Zowie mice, and about 70-80% of them is the EC2. I've never seen or heard anybody in pro play, having a mionix castor. I could on the other hand get behind that the Deathadder is good, but I didn't like the castor's accuracy.
> 
> And I know that pro players aren't necessarily the prophets of mice, but the point here that I'm trying to make is, if there was anything wrong or bad about the EC2, like inputlag or other issues, these players would not play with it, at all. CSGO is one of the few games where aiming is incredibly important, and consistency even more so.
> 
> But yeah, I mean if you don't feel good with it, that's up to you, we are all different in the end.


And people have been saying bad things about SteelSeries Sensei, and yet pros used it for a long time. If I recall Zeus from Na'Vi is still using one.

Aiming and being consistent is probably one of the most important factors, but what I think matters most is the teamwork and like somebody already mentioned game sense. So many people judge people by the kills they have. Randoms at LEM-Supreme level expect you to get 20+ frags or else you're considered "noob" . I find this kind of judgement just ridiculous.

What matters most to me about a gaming mouse is the shape and how it feels in my hand. Deathadder's shape feels very comfortable to me, but so does SS Sensei. Because of this I think I will give Zowie FK2 a go or then try to find a seller in EU who sells EVGA TorQ X5 or SS Kana v2 .

About pros not using Mionix Castor... yeah haven't seen any of them use it, but could this be due to sponsorship to another company? I do know that rain from G2(Kinguin) used to have Mionix Naos.

if it wasn't that drag feeling and somewhat sluggish movement I would have continued using my EC1/2-A.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I had an EC1-A and I had the same feeling of the cursor dragging, it was almost like something was wrong, there was some huge smoothing on it or something...I don't know but my cursor just felt wrong, it felt so floaty and wavy, it didn't go where I wanted it to.


Exactly this. I tried on different mouse pads as well. I also noticed at times when I pulled my mouse downwards it would stop tracking


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Deathadder's shape feels very comfortable to me, but so does SS Sensei..


I've found that the Hori Edge has a pretty comfortable ambidextrous DA-esque shape but be aware that the software is trash and it's usually pretty expensive in Europe (it was 68EUR last time I talked to someone from Europe) while it's about 68USD here.


----------



## genericcc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I've found that the Hori Edge has a pretty comfortable ambidextrous DA-esque shape but be aware that the software is trash and it's usually pretty expensive in Europe (it was 68EUR last time I talked to someone from Europe) while it's about 68USD here.


Actually it's in stock right now on amazon uk at around 50€ which is a really reasonable price.
Mine is on the way.


----------



## iandroo888

What's your grip style? I guess either finger or palm style.
What's your sensitivity? my current mouse is a logitech mx510... so 800dpi? i could probably do a little higher ?
What's your maximum budget? < 100 XD
Do you want additional buttons? aside from the usual left and right.. being able to go back and forth pages and scroll...
What games do you play? ranges from mmorpg to fps like cs:go and battlefield 4 and star wars
Do you mind about prediction? prediction? it predicts where i wanna go? how about play for me? XD and do better ! LOL
Other relevant information: ehm.... nope? Lol.. wired preferably? maybe something a little "heavier" than my mx510?
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
iunoe @[email protected] ive had my mx510 since 2005 @[email protected] !


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I've found that the Hori Edge has a pretty comfortable ambidextrous DA-esque shape but be aware that the software is trash and it's usually pretty expensive in Europe (it was 68EUR last time I talked to someone from Europe) while it's about 68USD here.


68 euros is cheap considering the fact that where I live the Deathadder Chroma was 80 euros. I will just return this one then and order Hori Edge and hope that it feels as comfortable. Although not sure if it's too big for me since my hand is from the tip of my middle finger to my wrist 17,5 cm length and 8-8.5cm width. And it appears that the Zowie BenQ FK models are going to be available here in 5 days so leaning a bit more towards FK2.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> 68 euros is cheap considering the fact that where I live the Deathadder Chroma was 80 euros. I will just return this one then and order Hori Edge and hope that it feels as comfortable. Although not sure if it's too big for me since my hand is from the tip of my middle finger to my wrist 17,5 cm length and 8-8.5cm width. And it appears that the Zowie BenQ FK models are going to be available here in 5 days so leaning a bit more towards FK2.


It's about the same size as a Deathadder so if you feel that may be too big for you then yeah I would hold off and maybe get another mouse.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> It's about the same size as a Deathadder so if you feel that may be too big for you then yeah I would hold off and maybe get another mouse.


Ahh I thought it'd be a bit too large, but if it's the size of a deathadder then it's fine.


----------



## toyz72

What's your grip style?....claw/palm with thumb and pinky drag
What's your sensitivity?....low/medium
What's your maximum budget?...N/A
Do you want additional buttons?..wouldnt hurt
What games do you play?...fps gamer
Do you mind about prediction?...N/A

Other relevant information:...

i need a mouse gear toward large hands. right now im using a DA,but would like to have something larger or at least close to the DA. if im going to purchase a new mouse,i would like it to be better/faster than my DA.

mice i have been looking at...

G502/402....not really a fan of the sniper button or position. my thumb sits about where its located.

naos 7000....looks great,but not sure about shape for fps gaming.

caster 7000.....may be slightly smaller than my DA.

im looking some other suggestions.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> What's your grip style?....claw/palm with thumb and pinky drag
> What's your sensitivity?....low/medium
> What's your maximum budget?...N/A
> Do you want additional buttons?..wouldnt hurt
> What games do you play?...fps gamer
> Do you mind about prediction?...N/A
> 
> Other relevant information:...
> 
> i need a mouse gear toward large hands. right now im using a DA,but would like to have something larger or at least close to the DA. if im going to purchase a new mouse,i would like it to be better/faster than my DA.
> 
> mice i have been looking at...
> 
> G502/402....not really a fan of the sniper button or position. my thumb sits about where its located.
> 
> naos 7000....looks great,but not sure about shape for fps gaming.
> 
> caster 7000.....may be slightly smaller than my DA.
> 
> im looking some other suggestions.


SS Rival or EC1-A.


----------



## toyz72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> SS Rival or EC1-A.


checking out the ss rival now.

edit.....im really liking the rival 300. it looks to have about everything i want. any thoughts on the 700?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> checking out the ss rival now.
> 
> edit.....im really liking the rival 300. it looks to have about everything i want. any thoughts on the 700?


The 700 is the size of Sensei, which means smaller than Deathadder. Rival 300 is what you should be looking at.


----------



## toyz72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> The 700 is the size of Sensei, which means smaller than Deathadder. Rival 300 is what you should be looking at.


good to know. i dont really pay lot of attention to user reviews,but i like how some reviewers are saying how large of a mouse this is.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> good to know. i dont really pay lot of attention to user reviews,but i like how some reviewers are saying how large of a mouse this is.


Yeah it's basically as big as IE 3.0, bit larger than deathadder, but not by TOO MUCH.. just enough to be a noticeable change. It's a great mouse for FPS gaming, lots of csgo pros play with it, Olofmeister, friberg to name a few. Same thing with the EC1-A, both great mice.


----------



## Gamefreak565

What's your grip style?
- Palm

What's your sensitivity?
- Medium (800-1600)

What's your maximum budget?
- I honestly don't care, if it's worth the money, I'll fork it out. For the sake of argument, lets say 100 USD.

Do you want additional buttons? Maybe two side buttons?
- I don't really care too much about them.

What games do you play?
- ARPG, RPG, and sometimes FPS.

Do you mind about prediction?
- I'd rather not have it, I can tolerate a laser mouse but it needs to have good tracking.

Other relevant information:
- Zowie mice are out of the question right now, I just ended up returning three mice in the span of two weeks for manufacturing defects. I've lost faith in their quality control and honestly can't be bothered with it any more. Also, while I don't game on Linux, I do a lot of my work on it, so it would be nice if the mouse didn't bug out when I switch to Linux for work. I've considered going back to the Deathadder but I'm not sure about the quality control on them. I guess for people who have them, if I dual boot will my polling and sensitivity settings carry over, or do I have to have the Synapse drivers installed constantly?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> I guess for people who have them, if I dual boot will my polling and sensitivity settings carry over, or do I have to have the Synapse drivers installed constantly?


Sorry Sunshine but if you are unfortunate enough to spend money on a DA to use on your computer then you'll need to ALWAYS install the Synapse Cancer into your system







.

Better yet don't install that atrocious app and use the max standard "1800dpi" setting which comes with all of their current mice.


----------



## Gamefreak565

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Sorry Sunshine but if you are unfortunate enough to spend money on a DA to use on your computer then you'll need to ALWAYS install the Synapse Cancer into your system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Better yet don't install that atrocious app and use the max standard "1800dpi" setting which comes with all of their current mice.


Well that sucks.

I'm pretty much running out of good options here.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> Well that sucks.
> 
> I'm pretty much running out of good options here.


SS rival, Finalmouse, ducky secret, G502. There is quite a few options.


----------



## Gamefreak565

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> SS rival, Finalmouse, ducky secret, G502. There is quite a few options.


Tried the G502 in a store and did not like the feel of it, but I was looking at the other three you mentioned. I can't seem to find any of them in Canada though.


----------



## ozzy1925

What's your grip style?
Finger tip and i keep my arm stationary all or most of the time and move the mouse primarily with my fingers alone
What's your sensitivity?
It must be high because i dont like to move my hand very often
What's your maximum budget?
no limit
Do you want additional buttons?
not really
What games do you play?
gta v ,assasins creed quake 3
Do you mind about prediction?
well i really dont know what it means but i think no
Other relevant information:
I think my hands are very small from wrist to end of middle finger is 17cm..Currently using g402 which is uncomfortable for me after 20-30 mins .I dont like to move my hand very often so i use high dpi setting.I had razer control mouse pad xxl and switched to perixx dx-1000XXL because of childish look so i look for a simple design mouse with sleeved cable


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> Tried the G502 in a store and did not like the feel of it, but I was looking at the other three you mentioned. I can't seem to find any of them in Canada though.


SS Rival is at best buy. The other two you will have to buy online.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> Well that sucks.
> 
> I'm pretty much running out of good options here.
> 
> 
> 
> SS rival, Finalmouse, ducky secret, G502. There is quite a few options.
Click to expand...

Have Ducky Secret and it's a perfect Office use mouse (I don't game, too old for that)







.


----------



## Gamefreak565

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Have Ducky Secret and it's a perfect Office use mouse (I don't game, too old for that)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Where did you manage to find it online?


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamefreak565*
> 
> Where did you manage to find it online?


Ducky's own website I believe.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Have Ducky Secret and it's a perfect Office use mouse (I don't game, too old for that)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Can concur, makes work more enjoyable for sure


----------



## munchzilla

sort of thought I had looked at every mouse out there but... hand is crying for new mouse and I'm picky.

shape-wise, lots of issues here:
I use a fingertip claw type grip? I don't use the back of my hand but the top of my palm touches the mouse.
however, I have my hand rotated almost 45 degrees vertically (I hope this makes sense...







)
kind of like a vertical mouse but not as extreme obviously - http://image.dhgate.com/albu_311285596_00/1.0x0.jpg
but I grip with my fingertips and lift with them too.

my hands are 21-22cm (forgot, haven't measured in a while) and quite skinny.

so I currently use G303, but it's too symmetrical and square - I think I'd like something rounded on the top right side at least.

good light click buttons (crisp, light click, but with some travel) is a must too. low click delay!! I had a roccat with 40ms more click delay than the G303 and it was super sad.

cable can be ehh kinda whatever but prefer non braided thinner ones.

scroll wheel - anything but Zowie I think... I really like the one in the Roccat mice but not super picky as long as it's not completely awful like Zowie (squeak squeak after a few months, and skips scrolls... IME of course, but I've tried 5 of them now long term).

weight - sub 100g and I'm good. lighter is better but ... I can sacrifice some weight for ergonomics

and then sensor: I don't really like the 3090 or 3310 that I've tried after using the G303/G502 for a bit... but would consider, as long as it feels smooth in 165Hz, and not laggy or jittery. high frame rate seems to matter for my preferences? min 2.5m/s max speed. I use 36cm/360 sens.
no SRAV problems of course (accel).

side buttons preferred too.









feet shape would prefer 4 smaller ones but... can always modify.

feels like I'm forgetting something. no budget... in Canada...

thanks! and sorry for the long list of preferences.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> sort of thought I had looked at every mouse out there but... hand is crying for new mouse and I'm picky.
> 
> shape-wise, lots of issues here:
> I use a fingertip claw type grip? I don't use the back of my hand but the top of my palm touches the mouse.
> however, I have my hand rotated almost 45 degrees vertically (I hope this makes sense...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> kind of like a vertical mouse but not as extreme obviously - http://image.dhgate.com/albu_311285596_00/1.0x0.jpg
> but I grip with my fingertips and lift with them too.
> 
> my hands are 21-22cm (forgot, haven't measured in a while) and quite skinny.
> 
> so I currently use G303, but it's too symmetrical and square - I think I'd like something rounded on the top right side at least.
> 
> good light click buttons (crisp, light click, but with some travel) is a must too. low click delay!! I had a roccat with 40ms more click delay than the G303 and it was super sad.
> 
> cable can be ehh kinda whatever but prefer non braided thinner ones.
> 
> scroll wheel - anything but Zowie I think... I really like the one in the Roccat mice but not super picky as long as it's not completely awful like Zowie (squeak squeak after a few months, and skips scrolls... IME of course, but I've tried 5 of them now long term).
> 
> weight - sub 100g and I'm good. lighter is better but ... I can sacrifice some weight for ergonomics
> 
> and then sensor: I don't really like the 3090 or 3310 that I've tried after using the G303/G502 for a bit... but would consider, as long as it feels smooth in 165Hz, and not laggy or jittery. high frame rate seems to matter for my preferences? min 2.5m/s max speed. I use 36cm/360 sens.
> no SRAV problems of course (accel).
> 
> side buttons preferred too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feet shape would prefer 4 smaller ones but... can always modify.
> 
> feels like I'm forgetting something. no budget... in Canada...
> 
> thanks! and sorry for the long list of preferences.


If you dont like the 3090 or the 3310 and you tried the logis, I dont know what else is out there. dont think there are any other 3366/3360 mice out there aside from the rival 700 and thats going to be heavy.

Screamone is coming but depending on where you read who the heck knows when that will actually be released. Seems like days, weeks or months depending on which tweet you read.


----------



## loki993

Lets try this again...

What's your grip style? Im a fingetip grips
What's your sensitivity? 800
What's your maximum budget? doesnt really matter
Do you want additional buttons? yes thats my promary reason for looking for another mouse
What games do you play? GF4, WOW, HOTS
Do you mind about prediction? yes, dont want prediction
Other relevant information:

Ok so I went ahead and tried the Mionix Avior and did not like it. It was basically everything I was afraid it would be....too big, too heavy and I clicked the right side buttons all the time. Lesson learned but at least now I know what I like.

What Im looking for is a smallish, light mouse that I can use primarily for MOBAS and MMO games. Right now I use a Zowie FK2 for FPS games and its basically perfect for me...and Ill probably continue to use it for FPS games.

Basically my perfect mouse would be an FK2 with 2 more programmable buttons either on the top or on the left side.

Is there anything like that out there with a 3310 sensor?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> Lets try this again...
> 
> What's your grip style? Im a fingetip grips
> What's your sensitivity? 800
> What's your maximum budget? doesnt really matter
> Do you want additional buttons? yes thats my promary reason for looking for another mouse
> What games do you play? GF4, WOW, HOTS
> Do you mind about prediction? yes, dont want prediction
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Ok so I went ahead and tried the Mionix Avior and did not like it. It was basically everything I was afraid it would be....too big, too heavy and I clicked the right side buttons all the time. Lesson learned but at least now I know what I like.
> 
> What Im looking for is a smallish, light mouse that I can use primarily for MOBAS and MMO games. Right now I use a Zowie FK2 for FPS games and its basically perfect for me...and Ill probably continue to use it for FPS games.
> 
> Basically my perfect mouse would be an FK2 with 2 more programmable buttons either on the top or on the left side.
> 
> Is there anything like that out there with a 3310 sensor?


For MMO's such as WoW.. I think you're better off getting MMO mouse from either Roccat/Corsair/Razer . At least I don't know any small mouse with extra buttons for MMO/MOBA's . Only MMO mice that come to my mind are Razer Naga, Logitech G600 and Corsair Scimitar and of course Roccat Nyth. Then again they don't seem to be as small as FK2 though... but have plenty of buttons. I have had myself bad experience with Cyborg R.A.T mice so I won't be recommending them


----------



## loki993

Ive looked at those and my primary struggle with them is 1 they're usually heavy and 2 they all use laser sensors. Though in something like wow or heroes the sensor probably doesn't make a ton of difference, but id still like to keep the optical for consistencies sake. Though that may not be possible.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> If you dont like the 3090 or the 3310 and you tried the logis, I dont know what else is out there. dont think there are any other 3366/3360 mice out there aside from the rival 700 and thats going to be heavy.
> 
> Screamone is coming but depending on where you read who the heck knows when that will actually be released. Seems like days, weeks or months depending on which tweet you read.


3310 has been OK-good, but there's something about the Logitech 3366 that just feels smoother. like it responds perfectly to moving arm








I could just be placeboing, but I'd feel bad downgrading.

I've decided to take on a G502 modding project! going to swap the wheel and the cable, and maybe remove the side buttons. will see what happens


----------



## lainx

I had to return my KPM after several issues outlined in the KPM thread.
Shape wasn't for me either.

I've tried out the Roccat Lua in store and i felt that it was what i was looking for. However, i need 2 side buttons for windows environment. I'm SOL finding one in that size and weight, right?
The only thing i've been able to find is Zowie ZA13, but the shape might not work for me. That and a FM.. Which may or may not be shoddy built. I'm holding out for FM's scream1 in that case.
How's the other Zowie mice? Which grip is recommended for what? EC2-A might be too wide for me and FK2 perhaps too heavy. I found that even though the KPM is only 90g i'd rather have something even lighter. According to Roccats site the Lua is only 70g, which again i found great in store.
Tried out the G303 too but it felt really stupid in store. Maybe it works at home..

EDIT:
Oh and the problem with buying a FM would be that i'd have to get it overseas, meaning RMAing would be a PITA.


----------



## hza

@lainx http://www.roccat.org/en-AT/Products/Gaming-Mice/Kiro


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> 3310 has been OK-good, but there's something about the Logitech 3366 that just feels smoother. like it responds perfectly to moving arm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could just be placeboing, but I'd feel bad downgrading.
> 
> I've decided to take on a G502 modding project! going to swap the wheel and the cable, and maybe remove the side buttons. will see what happens


Yeah I understand that for sure. There just arent a lot of mice out with that sensor right now. Me personally Ives never tried it because when I was looking at mice there was only the logitech and the shape wasnt for me and it was heavy. So ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Ill probably get a ScreamOne to try out some of the 3366 goodness.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> I had to return my KPM after several issues outlined in the KPM thread.
> Shape wasn't for me either.
> 
> I've tried out the Roccat Lua in store and i felt that it was what i was looking for. However, i need 2 side buttons for windows environment. I'm SOL finding one in that size and weight, right?
> The only thing i've been able to find is Zowie ZA13, but the shape might not work for me. That and a FM.. Which may or may not be shoddy built. I'm holding out for FM's scream1 in that case.
> How's the other Zowie mice? Which grip is recommended for what? EC2-A might be too wide for me and FK2 perhaps too heavy. I found that even though the KPM is only 90g i'd rather have something even lighter. According to Roccats site the Lua is only 70g, which again i found great in store.
> Tried out the G303 too but it felt really stupid in store. Maybe it works at home..
> 
> EDIT:
> Oh and the problem with buying a FM would be that i'd have to get it overseas, meaning RMAing would be a PITA.


That sucks the KPM was going to be the next mouse I try.
I use the FK2 and I love it. Its pretty light too I don't know if you going to find many mice lighter aside from the FM and even then the FK2 is 85g and they're saying trhe ScreamOne will be 80.


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @lainx http://www.roccat.org/en-AT/Products/Gaming-Mice/Kiro


Yea i've been eyeing that one. The weight turns me off though. I'll see if i can find it in store and compare with others. I wonder what it weighs with both side button attachment removed. Don't need them for gaming, just in windows.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> That sucks the KPM was going to be the next mouse I try.
> I use the FK2 and I love it. Its pretty light too I don't know if you going to find many mice lighter aside from the FM and even then the FK2 is 85g and they're saying trhe ScreamOne will be 80.


Don't get me wrong, It's a great mouse, but between the laser rattle and squeaky buttons i just couldn't keep it. I enjoyed the small size but something about the middle part made my hand cramp. Or maybe it was the hefty back part that did it. I lift my mouse with thumb and pinkie and i started to feel fatigue just after 30 minutes. I'm also slowly getting used to low sens (atm just 20cm/360) so that might've had something to do with it. I dunno, not for me as i said.
Yea it's between the FK2 and ZA13 right now. I'll see if i can find them in store before committing. Otherwise i'll just have to wait for ScreamOne and hopefully the QC is better.

EDIT:
Oh i forgot to mention that i have small hands, around 16-17cm.


----------



## v0ld3

What's your grip style?

> Palm Grip
What's your sensitivity?

> 600
What's your maximum budget?

> 90$
Do you want additional buttons?

> 2 Buttons on left side
What games do you play?

> CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction?

> Yes
Other relevant information:

I really like Rival 300 Shape. And i want soft click buttons. I'm waiting Scream1 atm. But there is so many mouse manufacturer. I'm open for suggestions.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0ld3*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> > Palm Grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> > 600
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> > 90$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> > 2 Button on left side
> What games do you play?
> 
> > CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> > Yes
> Other relevant information:
> 
> I really like Rival 300 Shape. And i want soft click buttons. I'm waiting Scream1 atm. But there is so many mouse manufacturer. I'm open to suggestions.


Since you're a palm grip I would go with an ergo form factor. Rival is good also look into maybe the Zowie EC1-A (19cm hands or larger) or EC2-A. Both are great form factors. The ScreamOne is a symmetrical form factor which I personally dislike being more of a palm gripper myself, but I find myself using a claw-palm hybrid. I enjoy my EC1-A. My hands are 20cm. Very comfortable and I can still hybrid grip it and have control. If you want you can wait until the ScreamTwo comes out in about 6 months and check out what that is like. 3360 sensor and ergo shape.


----------



## madmeatballs

What's your grip style?
- Palm Grip (prefer resting my pink and not dragging it along my mouse pad)
What's your sensitivity?
- 2400-2800 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
- 100$
Do you want additional buttons?
- Yes, I usually use a thumb button for PTT, additional buttons could be very useful for some games I play like Arma 3
What games do you play?
- Arma 3(~DayZ), DA:I, Squad, Fallout 4,
Do you mind about prediction?
Not really, but would like something without it.
Other relevant information:
- I prefer weighted mice
- Wired
- durable side buttons, (I had an MMO7 and a RAT5 since it had the buttons I needed but I am really getting annoyed that the buttons snap off from use and is really hard to fix, I think the only remedy is to 3d print a new button. I dont want to waste anymore money for mad catz until they fix their build quality. This was specifically the back button which I use for PTT.)
- On board memory would be a plus
- Pinky rest would be veryyyy nice
Past Mice:

CM Storm Inferno
Mad Catz RAT 5
Mad Catz MMO7

Current Mice:
- G.Skill MX780 (I feel like its a bit small for my hand)

Hand Measurement is 195mm L x 95mm W


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmeatballs*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - Palm Grip (prefer resting my pink and not dragging it along my mouse pad)
> What's your sensitivity?
> - 2400-2800 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> - 100$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - Yes, I usually use a thumb button for PTT, additional buttons could be very useful for some games I play like Arma 3
> What games do you play?
> - Arma 3(~DayZ), DA:I, Squad, Fallout 4,
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Not really, but would like something without it.
> Other relevant information:
> - I prefer weighted mice
> - Wired
> - durable side buttons, (I had an MMO7 and a RAT5 since it had the buttons I needed but I am really getting annoyed that the buttons snap off from use and is really hard to fix, I think the only remedy is to 3d print a new button. I dont want to waste anymore money for mad catz until they fix their build quality. This was specifically the back button which I use for PTT.)
> - On board memory would be a plus
> - Pinky rest would be veryyyy nice
> Past Mice:
> 
> CM Storm Inferno
> Mad Catz RAT 5
> Mad Catz MMO7
> 
> Current Mice:
> - G.Skill MX780 (I feel like its a bit small for my hand)
> 
> Hand Measurement is 195mm L x 95mm W


Considering your cpi preference and based on your other preferences I'd look into the mionix naos 7000. I think it's a mouse you'll enjoy very much. It is a larger mouse as well as a wider form factor so you aren't dragging your fingers on the mat. Great build quality and feel. Also has 2 side buttons.


----------



## Edge0fsanity

*[*] What's your grip style?*
Claw
*[*] What's your sensitivity?*
Not sure, would prefer adjustability here
*[*] What's your maximum budget?*
No budget
*[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, 2-4 on the thumb side while still leaving space for my thumb to rest. No extra buttons on the top.
*[*] What games do you play?*
RPG's are my favorite ie fo4, tw3, etc. However i do play a bit of everything including fps, rts, and mmo.
[**] Do you mind about prediction?*
Not interested.
*[*] Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
I have been using a logitech performance mx forever now. I've had a very tough time letting go. The shape and weight of it are perfect but it lacks some features i would like. Namely sensitivity adjustment, better battery life, and the option to go wired. Any mouse i buy absolutely has to have the option to go wireless or wired. Extra buttons would be nice but they cannot be on top of the mouse near the normal left and right buttons. I have a logitech g700s that i absolutely hated because the buttons on top and i hated the thumb buttons because they were too small and placed closely together. It also felt very cheap.

couple pics of my grip, my palm does not actually touch the mouse but its close. Wrist is elevated slightly off the mouse pad most of the time.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Finger tip and i keep my arm stationary all or most of the time and move the mouse primarily with my fingers alone
> What's your sensitivity?
> It must be high because i dont like to move my hand very often
> What's your maximum budget?
> no limit
> Do you want additional buttons?
> not really
> What games do you play?
> gta v ,assasins creed quake 3
> Do you mind about prediction?
> well i really dont know what it means but i think no
> Other relevant information:
> I think my hands are very small from wrist to end of middle finger is 17cm..Currently using g402 which is uncomfortable for me after 20-30 mins .I dont like to move my hand very often so i use high dpi setting.I had razer control mouse pad xxl and switched to perixx dx-1000XXL because of childish look so i look for a simple design mouse with sleeved cable


well no suggestion for me







?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> well no suggestion for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Roccat Kone Pure Military? It's quite a small mouse and you can fingertip it. Other mouse that I could recommend is Mionix Castor. Castor feels quite comfy with fingertip grip.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> well no suggestion for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Check out the G303 or Xornet. Those two are good smaller form factors for the grip that you use


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Edge0fsanity*
> 
> *[*] What's your grip style?*
> Claw
> *[*] What's your sensitivity?*
> Not sure, would prefer adjustability here
> *[*] What's your maximum budget?*
> No budget
> *[*] Do you want additional buttons?*
> Yes, 2-4 on the thumb side while still leaving space for my thumb to rest. No extra buttons on the top.
> *[*] What games do you play?*
> RPG's are my favorite ie fo4, tw3, etc. However i do play a bit of everything including fps, rts, and mmo.
> [**] Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not interested.
> *[*] Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> I have been using a logitech performance mx forever now. I've had a very tough time letting go. The shape and weight of it are perfect but it lacks some features i would like. Namely sensitivity adjustment, better battery life, and the option to go wired. Any mouse i buy absolutely has to have the option to go wireless or wired. Extra buttons would be nice but they cannot be on top of the mouse near the normal left and right buttons. I have a logitech g700s that i absolutely hated because the buttons on top and i hated the thumb buttons because they were too small and placed closely together. It also felt very cheap.
> 
> couple pics of my grip, my palm does not actually touch the mouse but its close. Wrist is elevated slightly off the mouse pad most of the time.


Hmm. Possibly the new Razer Mamba. That's the only other wireless mouse that can be wired as well that I know of. Other than that I know of the G700s that I read you already have had. The G602 is an amazing mouse for wireless performance, but it requires batteries and doesn't have a wired option. Out of the Razer Mamba and the G602 my personal recommendation would be the G602


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Military? It's quite a small mouse and you can fingertip it. Other mouse that I could recommend is Mionix Castor. Castor feels quite comfy with fingertip grip.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Check out the G303 or Xornet. Those two are good smaller form factors for the grip that you use


thank you guys i am between g303 and the mionix castor .


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> thank you guys i am between g303 and the mionix castor .


G303 has an amazing sensor and clicks but the shape is pretty bad honestly. It's most optimal for claw grip use. The Castor is extremely comfortable, but the only caveat about its shape for some people is the area where the thumb rests seems like its a bit too slanted inward. The clicks are nice and crisp on mine but I've heard of others getting some mushy clicks on their Castor. I would probably go with the Castor personally. The sensor isn't as good as the G303 but honestly it's not a big deal. The 3310 in the Castor is right up there in performance and more importantly the comfort factor is what you're looking for.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> G303 has an amazing sensor and clicks but the shape is pretty bad honestly. It's most optimal for claw grip use. The Castor is extremely comfortable, but the only caveat about its shape for some people is the area where the thumb rests seems like its a bit too slanted inward. The clicks are nice and crisp on mine but I've heard of others getting some mushy clicks on their Castor. I would probably go with the Castor personally. The sensor isn't as good as the G303 but honestly it's not a big deal. The 3310 in the Castor is right up there in performance and more importantly the comfort factor is what you're looking for.


yea castor seems like a better option but what about the size?I also see roccat kpm uses the same sensor with castor and its smaller but as i read many owners having issue with the moving lens


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> yea castor seems like a better option but what about the size?I also see roccat kpm uses the same sensor with castor and its smaller but as i read many owners having issue with the moving lens


The Castor is a bit larger than the G303. If your hands are on the smaller side of things then I may revoke my recommendation for the Castor and therefore suggest the G303. Whichever one you go with I'm sure you'll be happy. I have both and I liked them a lot but the shape of the G303 was way too small for my 20cm hands. The Castor was also a bit small for me. For me personally I need mice in the 125-128mm range


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> The Castor is a bit larger than the G303. If your hands are on the smaller side of things then I may revoke my recommendation for the Castor and therefore suggest the G303. Whichever one you go with I'm sure you'll be happy. I have both and I liked them a lot but the shape of the G303 was way too small for my 20cm hands. The Castor was also a bit small for me. For me personally I need mice in the 125-128mm range


yes my hands are small so g303 seems better option for fingertip but as i read its hard to get a flawless g303 and it looks awful pff its hard to decide


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> yes my hands are small so g303 seems better option for fingertip but as i read its hard to get a flawless g303 and it looks awful pff its hard to decide


Zowie ZA13 is small, but it is a more natural shape.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Zowie ZA13 is small, but it is a more natural shape.


i read za 13 is not really good for fingertip grip but as i said my style :Finger tip and i keep my arm stationary all or most of the time and move the mouse primarily with my fingers alone
but i took pictures to show if it really is fingertip grip?


----------



## coldc0ffee

What about a roccat savu?


----------



## bruzanHD

Anything small is usually fine for fingertip, you are clawing though. If your palm touches the mouse at all it is claw, in which case zowies have friendly shapes. Try the G303. Just curious what your CM/360 is?


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Anything small is usually fine for fingertip, you are clawing though. If your palm touches the mouse at all it is claw, in which case zowies have friendly shapes. Try the G303. Just curious what your CM/360 is?


i will measure and let you know.In the end i think i wil %90 buy the zowie fk2 (not sure if the upcoming red logo benq one or the current white one ) .Thanks @coldc0ffee he helped me a lot.I hope fk2 meets my expectations


----------



## Izidekas

*What's your grip style?* Palm, so i would like "bigger" mouse. My palm is around 20cm
*What's your sensitivity?* CS:GO. 800dpi 1,1 sens
*What's your maximum budget?* 60e~
*Do you want additional buttons?* Why not
*What games do you play?* CS:GO, civ
*Do you mind about prediction?* mm?
*Other relevant information:*
I was looking at deathadder, rival, finalmouse. But i'm not sure about all of them. I've heard good words about Zowie mouses. So yeah, any recommendations, comments would be great


----------



## Likun

*What's your grip style?* I think it's Palm Grip, maybe a little Claw influence, I'm enclosing some pics for better view.
*What's your sensitivity?* High, around 1.600 DPI currently with Zowie ZA11
*What's your maximum budget?* ~60 €/$
*Do you want additional buttons?* not needed but is ok if they aren't directly placed where my thumb rests
*What games do you play?* CS:GO, 1.600 DPI, 5~7 sens ingame - I'm usually not moving my arm, only my hand
*Do you mind about prediction?* no idea what that means
*Other relevant information:*
Mice I've already tried and which didn't fit my liking: G502, G303, EpicGear Cyclops, Mionix Avior & Naos, EC1-A, Asus ROG Gladius, Corsair M45 & M65.
I've been playing with Logitech G5 for around 8-9 years and love that shape. Currently I'm using Zowie ZA11, which is good, but doesn't fit perfectly. I'd prefer the hump more in the middle of the mouse instead in the back, and a little bit higher in the front also.
The mice I found now are the Steelseries Rival, but I'm not sure about the rubber on the sides as I want to use my mouse for the next few years and already read about complaints about that rubber. The second ones are Cougar 530M or 550M, they look nice, but can't find too much information or reviews about them, they don't seem to be very popular.
My hands are about 19 cm.
Do you have any recommendations for me?



(How would you call this kind of grip?)


----------



## Thanorak

1. Palm Grip
2. Low-Medium
3. $30 (possibly up to $40 but only if ABSOLUTELY necessary
4. I would like at least 4 buttons
5. This will be used mainly for CS:GO
6. I would prefer no prediction, but this is lower priority
7. I would like my mouse to be larger than normal, and wired with an optical sensor


----------



## Arkl1te

_Note: I didn't realize there's already another post like this, so I just copypasted from the other sticky post, in case people wouldn't look into the other anymore._

1. What's your grip style?
Hybrid claw/fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low. 400dpi.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100 USD

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No.

5. What games do you play?
League of Legends mainly, but I love playing fast-paced FPS games (such as Quake Live, Unreal Tournament) if friends qualify.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prediction is cool as I read about it just now. Although since I don't know how impacts my performance, I'd like a switch to turn that off just in case.

7. Other relevant information:
I'm right handed, always wired, I don't mind if glossy or rubber finish.

Mouse brands available in my country:

Mainly:
Steelseries
Logitech
Razer
Genius
A4Tech

Rarely:
Corsair
Cooler Master
Thermaltake

Mouse, if possible, must endure at least a year and a half.
I currently own Logitech G400s but lately it's failing to work at all. It randomly disconnects for 2 to 4 seconds. I can't even figure if it's the cable or hardware failure after 3-4 years of use.


----------



## bruzanHD

If you can stand the shape G303, if not then FK1.


----------



## MotO

tl;dr Get me off of this g400!!!

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip grip
*What's your sensitivity?*
I honestly don't know. The highest number of clicks on the DPI changer on my logitech g400.
*What's your maximum budget?*
None
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Just the usual forward/back buttons
*What games do you play?*
Only GTA 5 at the time but I'll probably eventually get into some BF
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Almost the whole reason for upgrading my g400 is to finally get a mouse with no angle snapping.
*Other relevant information:*
I love rounded buttons like the scroll wheel and the forward and backward buttons. I've tried mouses with sharp buttons and didn't like it at all. I also like smooth scroll wheels without the treads but it's not a deal breaker. I also love matte finishes.

I've had my g400 for literally *EVER*. Before that I had mx518's(virtually the same) since I started gaming around Call of Duty 1 in *2003!*. I love the shape but it's all I've really known. I'm down to try something similar. I just gotta get rid of this angle snapping and after actually paying attention to my aim after all these years I noticed that it's really notchy when panning in the XY and when trying to be precise for headshots.

I was looking at a Zowie EC1-A. I started researching mice for awhile but then started getting information overload. It's so hard without actually being able to hold the mouse in person. I've been putting this off for too long because I'm afraid to order something and then not like the shape and then being stuck with it.

I also noticed that when I play I anchor the bottom of my wrist to the pad and move the mouse with my fingers to aim. Does anybody else do this? I never actually looked at my aiming technique until I started researching everything. Seems weird.


----------



## hza

Direct successor of G400 is G402...


----------



## Watsyurdeal

*What's your grip style?*

Palm Grip, I do not claw at all. My hands are 18 cm long and 10.5 cm wide

*What's your sensitivity?*

38.5 cm per 360

*What's your maximum budget?*

No limit really, but I am only looking to buy one more mouse

*Do you want additional buttons?*

All I need is the left and right buttons, middle click, and thumb buttons

*
What games do you play?*

Dirty Bomb, Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress 2

*Do you mind about prediction?*

I would like my mouse to feel as raw as possible, so no or very little prediction or smooth, no angle snapping or accel. I don't want any of that bull**** messing me up.

*Other relevant information:* I would like my mouse to be driver less if possible, unless the software offers enough to justify it's existence. Low weight, soft finish that doesn't become slippery or weird feeling while I play. Low LOD and would prefer the switches to be somewhat stiff. Low as possible for input latency. Red LED option to match my setup.

I've used the Deathadder, Castor, and Naos 7000 and while I like the Naos, I feel like it's a bit too slippery at times, and tricky to lift off my mouse pad. I have an EC1 A on the way and I am hoping this is the last mouse I'll ever need to buy. But if not, help me out here.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Palm Grip, I do not claw at all. My hands are 18 cm long and 10.5 cm wide
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 38.5 cm per 360
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> No limit really, but I am only looking to buy one more mouse
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> All I need is the left and right buttons, middle click, and thumb buttons
> 
> *
> What games do you play?*
> 
> Dirty Bomb, Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress 2
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I would like my mouse to feel as raw as possible, so no or very little prediction or smooth, no angle snapping or accel. I don't want any of that bull**** messing me up.
> 
> *Other relevant information:* I would like my mouse to be driver less if possible, unless the software offers enough to justify it's existence. Low weight, soft finish that doesn't become slippery or weird feeling while I play. Low LOD and would prefer the switches to be somewhat stiff. Low as possible for input latency. Red LED option to match my setup.
> 
> I've used the Deathadder, Castor, and Naos 7000 and while I like the Naos, I feel like it's a bit too slippery at times, and tricky to lift off my mouse pad. I have an EC1 A on the way and I am hoping this is the last mouse I'll ever need to buy. But if not, help me out here.


I'd say give the Rival 300 a shot. It comes in 3 colors, all w/ different coatings (soft touch, matte, glossy).


----------



## MotO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Direct successor of G400 is G402...


I don't think I could stand how sharp the sides buttons are.


----------



## hza

@MotO I don't know, but you should try in a store, if you can.


----------



## xpsycho87x

What's your grip style? Maybe it's a palm/claw hrybrid... I honestly don't know so here's some img of my grip:


http://imgur.com/Clqmb

 (I also raise mouse often)
What's your sensitivity? I play with 3500 DPI Deathadder at low sens, in CS:GO I use 0.8
What's your maximum budget? 70 EUR
Do you want additional buttons? Not much needed
What games do you play? CS:GO - RS: Siege at the moment
Do you mind about prediction? Idk what it is
Other relevant information: I'd like a mouse with a shape, weight and dimensions similiar to the deathadder 3.5G


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xpsycho87x*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Maybe it's a palm/claw hrybrid... I honestly don't know so here's some img of my grip:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Clqmb
> 
> (I also raise mouse often)
> What's your sensitivity? I play with 3500 DPI Deathadder at low sens, in CS:GO I use 0.8
> What's your maximum budget? 70 EUR
> Do you want additional buttons? Not much needed
> What games do you play? CS:GO - RS: Siege at the moment
> Do you mind about prediction? Idk what it is
> Other relevant information: I'd like a mouse with a shape, weight and dimensions similiar to the deathadder 3.5G


Just buy a new DA then. Unless you have given up on razer in which case I would go with the Zowie EC1-A or the SteelSeries Rival 300.


----------



## glue33

-


----------



## Trax416

What's your grip style?

> Clawgrip/palm grip hybrid

What's your sensitivity?

> 800 - 1600

What's your maximum budget?

> 90$

Do you want additional buttons?

> 2 Buttons on left side at least

What games do you play?

> Battlefield 4, MOBA's, MMO's, a variety.

Do you mind about prediction?

> Yes

Other relevant information:

The Roccat Savu is the best shaped mouse I have ever used, and I have used many. My hands are wide, but not long (17.5 cm long). I am looking for something as accurate as possible. I don't want prediction. An MMO style mouse is fine if you would like to recommend one. I had my eye on the Mionix Castor but wanted some other recommendations.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trax416*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> > Clawgrip/palm grip hybrid
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> > 800 - 1600
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> > 90$
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> > 2 Buttons on left side at least
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> > Battlefield 4, MOBA's, MMO's, a variety.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> > Yes
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> The Roccat Savu is the best shaped mouse I have ever used, and I have used many. My hands are wide, but not long (17.5 cm long). I am looking for something as accurate as possible. I don't want prediction. An MMO style mouse is fine if you would like to recommend one. I had my eye on the Mionix Castor but wanted some other recommendations.


G303


----------



## wareya

"palm hybrid"

"g303"

what


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> "palm hybrid"
> 
> "g303"
> 
> what


17.5 cm hands


----------



## steny007

What's your grip style?

Pure Palm grip. Like to rest whole hand on the mouse.

.
What's your sensitivity?

1600-3200

What's your maximum budget?

No limit / as cheap as it gets without much compromises.

Do you want additional buttons?

Two side buttons are enough. Does not need fancy sniper, mmorpg or other buttons.

What games do you play?

Starcraft

Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction + no angle snapping required.

Other relevant information:

I got small hand. 17.5 cm from finger tip to the wrist.

Mouses i tried: I used CM storm spawn. I like that mouse but after it broke i tried Gigabyte Raptor and didn't like that mouse - long, but flat and narrow really don't like that shape + plus mushy buttons - so I returned it. Then I had found my very old Counter strike mouse Logitech MX500 and found i really like that shape, palm grip style much more that the claw grip i used on my spawn. But since the left switch of that mouse was already worn I had to borrow Logitech MX1100R from a friend of mine - and also like that shape, though could be less heavy and a tad smaller.

Based on this i probably like - high, wide but not excessive long (for my small hand) mouse with really curvy design so my hand can comfortably sit on that plus good tactile buttons. Thinking about G502 (since I already liked that two logitech's desing) or 402 (if the sensor is also good there, though from pictures seems a bit flat in the button area) though not as flat as on Raptor which design I hated). Don't know about other brands mouses though.

My hand on MX1100R - perfect shape for my hand (could be a tad smaller though).


----------



## nVoid

Hey guys, hope you can help me out!

*What's your grip style?*
Something between palm and claw, mostly palm though.

*What's your sensitivity?*
High on desktop, currently around 400 -1800 ingame, depending on the game.

*What's your maximum budget?*
Up to 100€

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes please! Thumb buttons and DPI switch would be nice.

*What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS (BF, Rainbow: Siege)

*Do you mind about prediction?*
A bit.

*Other relevant information:*
I would like to go for an optical sensor if possible. I am currently using the Imperator 2012, before the Roccat Kone. Both Roccat and Razer broke quite quick for me, therefore I am trying to avoid it. Although, I quite liked the shape of the Razer Mamba/Deathadder and the Roccat XTD. I generally prefer bigger mice.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## ThornTwist

Hi,

I currently have a G13. I was wondering if there is anything else like it on the market besides what Razor has, thanks.


----------



## cainy1991

Dropped my sensei on the concrete flaw this morning and its not in about 3 pieces...
So I need a super cheap mouse to tide me over for a while, as I'm currently broke.

Keep in mind I'm in Australia so what is cheap elsewhere is likely expensive here.

What's your grip style?
Claw.

What's your sensitivity?
1500-2000

What's your maximum budget?
Cheap as physically possible.

Do you want additional buttons?
Nope.

What games do you play?
BF (bc,3,4), TF2, QL, CS1.6, Warface, Ballistic.
And tons of SP games.

Do you mind about prediction?
Preferably not but not a huge downfall.

Other relevant information:
Hand 20x12- wide.
So the wider the mouse the better, in fact this probably means more to me than anything I'm not looking to layer foam and tape on this like I did for my sensei.

Current front running is probably the kinzu v3 for $19 its a tiny mouse... but if I can't find anything better I guess its time for tape and foam again.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G100S


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G100S


Both pretty damn small, is it worth it over the kinzu being more than twice the price?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Yes. The Kinzu has bad click latency and a worse sensor.


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Yes. The Kinzu has bad click latency and a worse sensor.


Hmmm okay thanks.

But is there anything that makes it stand out? as I am very bias against logitech after a slew of items breaking within weeks and needing to be returned...
Mainly their mice... 4 g502s in recent memory all died within a month of purchase/RMA.

And also at that price range its directly competing with the:

Tesoro Shrike H2L V2
Cougar 250M
Cougar 300M
Razer Abyssus 2014
Gamdias OUREA
Gamdias DEMETER
Thermaltake Talon

And less than $10 off of the:
Cougar 500M
Mionix Naos
Corsair M45
Corsair sabre
Corsair Katar
Steelseries Rival 100....

And countless other logitech mice I would rather avoid if possible...


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The talon is an interesting choice imo. It's using a 3050 so 500dpi(A different lens is used, so my unit had 420dpi instead of 500dpi lol) is about where it's best. Even has g300 level click latency.

Things going against it are, build quality, shape and longevity. To give maybe a better idea of it's sketchiness, the listed dpis are wrong, and it also doesn't state that you can change the polling rate(i got bored and trolled their tech support with that. They had no idea it was changeable unsurprisingly).

I didn't use the talon as much I would have liked. I can't remember if there were any clown cursor type effects.

Cougar 250m even has the "i didnt hate it" seal of approval from the woll3'ster so that could work too.

By the way how did you kill 4 G502's.


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> The talon is an interesting choice imo. It's using a 3050 so 500dpi(A different lens is used, so my unit had 420dpi instead of 500dpi lol) is about where it's best. Even has g300 level click latency.
> 
> Things going against it are, build quality, shape and longevity. To give maybe a better idea of it's sketchiness, the listed dpis are wrong, and it also doesn't state that you can change the polling rate(i got bored and trolled their tech support with that. They had no idea it was changeable unsurprisingly).
> 
> I didn't use the talon as much I would have liked. I can't remember if there were any clown cursor type effects.
> 
> Cougar 250m even has the "i didnt hate it" seal of approval from the woll3'ster so that could work too.
> 
> By the way how did you kill 4 G502's.


Normal use, left click every time.
I even made a little scuff on the bottom of the third one before I sent it back just to make sure they weren't sending me back the same one every time just with a quick fix lol.

I honestly haven't brought a single logi product that has lasted since my g27 years ago.


----------



## qsxcv

i've used my g402 or g502 for a significant amount if time, but i thought they had fixed the switch issues with the g100s...

do you click the g502 in some unusual way?


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i've used my g402 or g502 for a significant amount if time, but i thought they had fixed the switch issues with the g100s...
> 
> do you click the g502 in some unusual way?


I got it within days of release if that makes a difference...

And unusual way of clicking? I don't think so? lol


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cainy1991*
> 
> I got it within days of release if that makes a difference...
> 
> And unusual way of clicking? I don't think so? lol


I assume you were getting "double clicks."


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I assume you were getting "double clicks."


Yes, yes I was.
And random "no click" where I would click and nothing would happen.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cainy1991*
> 
> Yes, yes I was.
> And random "no click" where I would click and nothing would happen.


Did the double clicks happen when you let go of the button or when you were holding the button down?

I don't know about clicks not registering. Never happened to me on any mouse. Not something I hear about either.


----------



## hza

Got my G502 for Idk.... 1 1/2 years or so and still works as it did from the start. You said you got it on release. Maybe there some more flawed units within the first batch. Or you just love to destroy Logitech stuff and say it wasn't you haha, I'm kidding


----------



## glue33

*What's your grip style?*
Claw/Fingertip Hybrid. Claw mostly.
*What's your sensitivity?*
400DPI | 6/11 Windows | 2.4 in CSGO
*What's your maximum budget?*
70€
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Two side buttons. Only on the left.
*What games do you play?*
FPSs mostly. CSGO and TF2 are the main ones.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes, i want no prediction and no kind of acceleration.
*Other relevant information:*
I've been using a WMO for a long time and while it's good enough for me it just can't track fast enough when i swipe it quickly. A mouse as light as this one would be perfect.


----------



## MiauFrito

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?*
43.5 cm/360 (2.387 @ 400 DPI in CSGO)
*What's your maximum budget?*
No budget
*Do you want additional buttons?*
At least 2 side buttons
*What games do you play?*
CS:GO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction/smoothing/acceleration/etc. please
*Other relevant information:*
AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE; no glossy sides
*Other preferences:*
Optical sensor; 400 DPI capable; decent and quiet scroll wheel; no ambidextrous buttons; small size
I play mostly CS:GO and am looking for the *lightest* mouse available which has at least 2 side buttons and no glossy sides since I suffer from Hyperhidrosis (sweat a lot from the palms) and glossy sides make the mouse ungrippable for me. Other than that, I would highly prefer an optical sensor that's capable of 400 DPI. I would also prefer (albeit not a deal-breaker): a decent and quiet scroll wheel, no ambidextrous buttons and a small size

I appreciate all suggestions, thanks

*EDIT:* I figured this was a no-brainer, but the mouse must be wired


----------



## sdfj7243

Please help me pick the most quality hard mouse pad to this mouse Gamdias Erebos optical

Corsair Gaming MM600 Double-Sided Mouse Mat (http://www.corsair.com/en/corsair-gaming-mm600-double-sided-mouse-mat-ch-9000104-ww)
Speedlink Cript (http://www.speedlink.com/?p=2&cat=416&pid=40717&paus=1)
Corepad Keira Large Black (http://www.coregamingshop.com/corepad-keira-large-black.html)

I excluded logitech's, steelserie's, razer's because of not good reviews I have googled on web. It was few.

And right after unboxing, I will put teflon skatez(aka mouse feet) to mouse because it has plastic default ones. Can you recommend me seller of those ? I was googling some, but nothing for middle europe. Just those I found:
http://www.eplastics.com/slick_strips
http://www.mousetape.com/
http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=europe
http://c4mousepads.com/Accessories.htm

Thank you


----------



## kackbratze

Decided to go for a Zowie mouse cuz I'm frustrated with logitech/razer/steelseries products.

I like the *Ninox Aurora* and *G100S* shape wise.

Would you recommend the *ZA13* or *FK2* to me?


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

G100s


----------



## Poodle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiauFrito*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 43.5 cm/360 (2.387 @ 400 DPI in CSGO)
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> No budget
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> At least 2 side buttons
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> No prediction/smoothing/acceleration/etc. please
> *Other relevant information:*
> AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE; no glossy sides
> *Other preferences:*
> Optical sensor; 400 DPI capable; decent and quiet scroll wheel; no ambidextrous buttons; small size
> I play mostly CS:GO and am looking for the *lightest* mouse available which has at least 2 side buttons and no glossy sides since I suffer from Hyperhidrosis (sweat a lot from the palms) and glossy sides make the mouse ungrippable for me. Other than that, I would highly prefer an optical sensor that's capable of 400 DPI. I would also prefer (albeit not a deal-breaker): a decent and quiet scroll wheel, no ambidextrous buttons and a small size
> 
> I appreciate all suggestions, thanks
> 
> *EDIT:* I figured this was a no-brainer, but the mouse must be wired


Roccat Kone Pure Military


----------



## inaureoled

*What's your grip style?* Palm.

*What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi.

*What's your maximum budget?* £40 (okay with eBay)

*Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, 2 left side buttons.

*What games do you play?* Skyrim, minecraft, CS:GO and WoW.

*Do you mind about prediction?* Eh.

*Other relevant information:* Needs (NON-NEGOTIABLE) light switches and it needs to be durable.


----------



## Moreg

*What's your grip style?*
Palm-claw hybrid, something inbetween
*What's your sensitivity?*
I use very low sensitivity ingame, around 75 cm/360°
*What's your maximum budget?*
~$80
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons on the left side, preferably no more extra buttons
*What games do you play?*
CS:GO mostly, fast paced FPS games
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction, acceleration etc please
*Other relevant information:*
Needs to be ergonomic


----------



## sdfj7243

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdfj7243*
> 
> Please help me pick the most quality hard mouse pad to this mouse Gamdias Erebos optical
> 
> Corsair Gaming MM600 Double-Sided Mouse Mat (http://www.corsair.com/en/corsair-gaming-mm600-double-sided-mouse-mat-ch-9000104-ww)
> Speedlink Cript (http://www.speedlink.com/?p=2&cat=416&pid=40717&paus=1)
> Corepad Keira Large Black (http://www.coregamingshop.com/corepad-keira-large-black.html)
> 
> I excluded logitech's, steelserie's, razer's because of not good reviews I have googled on web. It was few.
> 
> And right after unboxing, I will put teflon skatez(aka mouse feet) to mouse because it has plastic default ones. Can you recommend me seller of those ? I was googling some, but nothing for middle europe. Just those I found:
> http://www.eplastics.com/slick_strips
> http://www.mousetape.com/
> http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=europe
> http://c4mousepads.com/Accessories.htm
> 
> Thank you


please anyone


----------



## MasterBash

Is the Logitech G240/G640 more durable than the QcK heavy?


----------



## MiauFrito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Military


That's not exactly a light mouse... I'm looking for something under 80g. I loved my finalmouse but because of the glossy plastic sides I simply could not use it


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiauFrito*
> 
> That's not exactly a light mouse... I'm looking for something under 80g. I loved my finalmouse but because of the glossy plastic sides I simply could not use it


The FinalMouse is over 80g.


----------



## MiauFrito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Military


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The FinalMouse is over 80g.


74g according to their website. Also, I had no idea that there was a new one (76g) and I will probably buy it


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiauFrito*
> 
> 74g according to their website. Also, I had no idea that there was a new one (76g) and I will probably buy it


The numbers they advertise are misleading, taken preassembly with some components not installed. Jude said that the ergo model is actually 84-86g and the tourney pro is 86-87g.


----------



## KanoSet

What's your grip style?
not sure.. palm/fingertip i guess

What's your sensitivity?
800DPI

What's your maximum budget?
around 70$

Do you want additional buttons?
2 would be nice but not needed

What games do you play?
osu mainly.. rpg/fps from time to time

Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction pls

Other relevant information:
my hand is 20 cm
grip is a bit like: my pinky and ring finger are like in palm grip, my index on left click and middle on right click as in fingertip grip, my thumb is somewhat between claw and finger tip
i'm using a deathadder chroma and it feels a bit big and heavy.. it doesn't touch the palm of my hand
i'm thinking KPM, G402, G303 but not sure about the shape tho


----------



## maibuN

What's your grip style? Palm.

What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi with 1.5 ingame

What's your maximum budget? No Limit

Do you want additional buttons? 2 leftside

What games do you play? CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction? -> Should I?







I heard mice with no prediction would be the best

Other relevant information: I used IME 3.0 for many years but I really want to find e modern successor which seems to be nearly impossible.
Already tried Steelseries Rival. It was quite good but it was shaking/wiggling because the mousefeet were uneven or something like that. I returned it but the new one had the same problem). Then I tried Deathadder Chroma. Very nice glides, very good in all aspects except form factor and LOD. I had to return it because I couldn't grip it correctly and it caused pain after long sessions. Then I tried Zowie EC1-A. It is a bit small and the aim feels a bit strange but I don't know why or whats wrong with it. If I had to rate them than Zowie > SS Rival > Deathadder but no one was a clear successor to the IME 3.0. I used every mouse 3-4 weeks but sometimes switches back to IME 3.0 when I was to annoyed by the new mouse. So I think I tried everything I can and have to stick to IME 3.0? Or maybe go on trying to get used to EC1-A. Do you have any suggestions wich mouse would be good for me? Maybe I overlooked some good mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KanoSet*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> not sure.. palm/fingertip i guess
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> around 70$
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 would be nice but not needed
> 
> What games do you play?
> osu mainly.. rpg/fps from time to time
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> no prediction pls
> 
> Other relevant information:
> my hand is 20 cm
> grip is a bit like: my pinky and ring finger are like in palm grip, my index on left click and middle on right click as in fingertip grip, my thumb is somewhat between claw and finger tip
> i'm using a deathadder chroma and it feels a bit big and heavy.. it doesn't touch the palm of my hand
> i'm thinking KPM, G402, G303 but not sure about the shape tho


G402 if you can cable mod it, G303 if you can handle the shape, otherwise KPM


----------



## He1p1ess n00b

Advise me please what mouse to replace my Performance MX with? Log Performance MX irritates me with clicks missing, or random double-clicks, that sorts of things. Probably its button failed or became old. Well, I want cordless and preferably sensor, buttonless mouse, some kind of Zone Touch Mouse T400, Touch Mouse M600, MS Ark mouse or sort of these. But I see that some of them are obsolete, some are too flaky and with high fail-rate and RMAed. And I heard that these have only middlebuttons made of sensors, and left and right buttons are simply plain old clicks. Is it so? Then what is your advice

Oh, and I have Master MX, but seek Performance replacement not for myself. And Master is too expensive for this case


----------



## MaTpr0F

Hi Everyone!

I'm looking for a new mouse and need some help.

What's your grip style?
_Claw grip_

What's your sensitivity?
_Low sens_

What's your maximum budget?
_I don't want to specify it, I want a good mouse and I know it won't be cheap.
_
Do you want additional buttons?
_2 side buttons and a dedicated DPI button is nescesarry for me (but not the Zowie style dpi switch on the bottom)._

What games do you play?
_Mostly online fps, single player fps/adventure/rpg._

Do you mind about prediction?
_Yes._

Other relevant information:
_I'm right handed (18,5 cm palm size)._

Many thanks for your help!


----------



## Creo

What's your grip style? - Claw
What's your sensitivity? - 1200 to 1600
What's your maximum budget? - No budget
Do you want additional buttons? - Side thumb button would be great, scroll wheel (clickable)
What games do you play? - FPS and Strategy
Do you mind about prediction? - Yes, I don't want predicution, I'm after accuracy for FPS games
Other relevant information:

I've noticed my G9X has started doing some weird jittering, for instance in windows the mouse cursor will vibrate until I pick up the mouse and put it down again (sometimes I have to drop it from a couple of centimeters).
When playing FPS games I have noticed that the cursor won't always track and will get "stuck" or won't travel in an upwards direction which can be very frustrating when playing at a face pace.
Sensor is clean, I'm using a boogie XL gaming surface mat.

I use the g9x with one of the covers, not sure which one it is since I've lost any accessories since long ago. I don't use any kind of weight with the mouse.

I've tried the G502, didn't like the weight, couldn't get used to the grip, felt way too different.

My primary concerns are sensor quality and grip style, corded braid would be nice.

I'm right handed.

Thinking about it, has anyone tried sticking a better sensor/board in a g9x?


----------



## al0ne

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 2.2 in CS and 6 notch on windows
What's your maximum budget? $65
Do you want additional buttons? Just Left side
What games do you play? CS:GO and single players
Do you mind about prediction? none
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Smaller than 120mm length
Dislike new logitech design
driverless
no wireless
under 110g weight


----------



## MiauFrito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> The numbers they advertise are misleading, taken preassembly with some components not installed. Jude said that the ergo model is actually 84-86g and the tourney pro is 86-87g.


Hmmm, in that case I might go for an EC2-A


----------



## hermosatony

Hello everyone. My grandmother enjoys playing a simple game but there's a point that she struggles with because she can't click fast enough.

I'm looking for an inexpensive solution for her. Some way for her to hold down the left mouse button or press another button that can "rapid-fire" and simulate her clicking the left mouse button repeatedly. It doesn't' have to be extremely fast, about 3 times per second or more is enough.

Thank you!

What's your grip style? Any
What's your sensitivity? Any
What's your maximum budget? Hopefully under $30.
Do you want additional buttons? Only if necessary for "rapid-fire".
What games do you play? Simple games.
Do you mind about prediction? No.
Other relevant information: None.


----------



## SmOgER

I just bought *M6980X* and I just can't believe how ridiculously comfortable it is to use it.

Previously had M6900, then LMB started acting out so I replaced it with CM Recon about a year ago.
I never really got used to it... Recon just feels bulky and weird (especially coming from M6900). It feels unstable and forces you to hold your wrist at a weird angle.

I'am picky about the buttons on mouse, so what I did even before plugging the mouse in, is what I've done to almost every other mouse I've owned previously. Made the LMB/RMB click soft, silent and sturdy by sticking tiny amount of rubber between click mechanism and top plastic that comes into touch with it. Then completely eliminated the looseness and rattling (I just hate this) of the scrolling wheel by putting 2 spacers in different places and some plastic between 2 different mounts (that scrollwheel was loose in 3 places!). This also fixed middleclick which originally was too easy to click (unintentional clicking while scrolling), but had no negative effects on horizontal scrolling. Hard to explain why they didn't come from the factory this way.

Now it's perfect. And I can't stop touching/holding it, however inapropriate this may sound.


----------



## jla1

Games: All the Quakes
Right handed
Around 60€, Finland
Hand length: 19cm
fingertip grip
My Intelli 1.1 is light and low DPI, I've had this forever so I'm not sure if I would prefer something else
GNU/Linux compatibility
Things I don't like about my Intelli 1.1: the scroll wheel sucks, smooth scrolling instead of clicks and it has the jump bug. I wasn't able to set it to 500hz mouse poll rate in Linux Mint 17.3. I don't know how much of a difference that makes. This one is ambidextrous, but I don't think I would mind an ergonomic shape either.
I was recommended Zowie ZA and Logitech G303 on r/mousereview.


----------



## hza

@jla1 G303 is a great mouse, but you should try it out first. Some people tend to trash talk its shape. I personally love it (18.5 cm hands). Should you opt for the Zowie, make sure you get one with red Zowie logo on it (new Omron switches instead of old Huano switches) instead of old model with white Zowie logo. Just search for some Zowie reviews by Ino on overclock.net


----------



## Vimto

hi , i like the idea like its global orientation









1. What's your grip style?

i'am using Zowei FK1 Claw-Grip Style

2. What's your sensitivity?

2.0 in game 6 windows 400 DPi 1000 HZ

3. What's your maximum budget?

Don't have a maximum budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?

i just need the 6 buttons of my zowei fk1

5. What games do you play?

Actually Counter strike global offensive









6. Other relevant information:

i hate wireless mice







, i want you to tell me what is your opinion about Final Mouse ?


----------



## DreamMachines

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vimto*
> 
> hi , i like the idea like its global orientation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> i'am using Zowei FK1 Claw-Grip Style
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 2.0 in game 6 windows 400 DPi 1000 HZ
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Don't have a maximum budget
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> i just need the 6 buttons of my zowei fk1
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> Actually Counter strike global offensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Other relevant information:
> 
> i hate wireless mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , i want you to tell me what is your opinion about Final Mouse ?


What other mouse do you own now or have liked in the past? I see you just joined this forum so very glad. It is possible our mice might fit what you are asking for. If you have any questions feel free to write.


----------



## Wooph

What are my options for the lightest 5 button mice? I'm only concerned about weight at the moment.


----------



## qsxcv

ninox aurora (how the hell is this still on amazon?)
g100s with weight removed (no side buttons though


----------



## Tmfs

What's your grip style?

Palm

What's your sensitivity?

1 @ 800DPI - 6 windows

What's your maximum budget?

$35

Do you want additional buttons?

I have all the buttons on my G400 programmed to different nades so yes they would be nice

What games do you play?

CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?

I don't mind a little bit like that of the MX518

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Would like something with 1000 polling rate but 500 will do. I'm open to ambidextrous or ergo suggestions along with weight.


----------



## SevenFreak

*1. What's your grip style?*

"Relaxed" Claw grip - kinda mix of palm and claw. right hand, hand measurement is about 18,5cm

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Windows 6 / 800DPI - 34cm 360°

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

Don't have a maximum budget

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

I would love to have additional buttons like a 3way mousewheel for example but this is not absolutely necessary.

Absolutely necessary are the "default" 2 side buttons on the left side

*5. What games do you play?*

Fast FPS

*
6. Other relevant information:*

Should be an ambidextrous mouse, not heavy (something similiar to the ZA11 which is about 90g).

*Ownd/tested mice so far*: Zowie FK1, Zowie FK2, Zowie ZA11, ZA12, ZA13, Logitech G502, G100, G400, IME, Roccat Kone XTD, Corsair RAPTOR M45, Avior 7000 Mouse, CM Storm Spawn, Roccat Kone Pure Optical, Roccat Kova[+], Zowie EC eVo - EC2, Roccat Savu

*Current mouse:* Zowie ZA11

My mouse history: started with a Logitech M-BD58 http://zigsow.jp/img_page.php?a=a&filename=mi_104710_1399199937_713440857.jpg - switched go a Logitech G9 for a long time and then got a Zowie some years ago. I prefer an ambidextrous design, mouse shouldnt be too flat.

Basically I like/love the Zowie mice with the low LOD, besides two things, Huano Switches and this ****in annoying mouse wheel. I´m just trying to figure out if there are better alternatives, choices besides the Zowie ZA11, maybe you have some ideas to help me.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SevenFreak*
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> 
> "Relaxed" Claw grip - kinda mix of palm and claw. right hand, hand measurement is about 18,5cm
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> Windows 6 / 800DPI - 34cm 360°
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Don't have a maximum budget
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> I would love to have additional buttons like a 3way mousewheel for example but this is not absolutely necessary.
> 
> Absolutely necessary are the "default" 2 side buttons on the left side
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> 
> Fast FPS
> 
> *
> 6. Other relevant information:*
> 
> Should be an ambidextrous mouse, not heavy (something similiar to the ZA11 which is about 90g).
> 
> *Ownd/tested mice so far*: Zowie FK1, Zowie FK2, Zowie ZA11, ZA12, ZA13, Logitech G502, G100, Roccat Kone XTD, Corsair RAPTOR M45, Avior 7000 Mouse, CM Storm Spawn, Roccat Kone Pure Optical, Roccat Kova[+], Zowie EC eVo - EC2, Roccat Savu
> 
> *Current mouse:* Zowie ZA11
> 
> My mouse history: started with a Logitech M-BD58 http://zigsow.jp/img_page.php?a=a&filename=mi_104710_1399199937_713440857.jpg - switched go a Logitech G9 for a long time and then got a Zowie some years ago. I prefer an ambidextrous design, mouse shouldnt be too flat.
> 
> Basically I like/love the Zowie mice with the low LOD, besides two things, Huano Switches and this ****in annoying mouse wheel. I´m just trying to figure out if there are better alternatives, choices besides the Zowie ZA11, maybe you have some ideas to help me.


W M O
M
O


----------



## SevenFreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> W M O
> M
> O


No side-buttons...So far possible test candidates would be:

Mionix Castor
G303
G402
Rival 300


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SevenFreak*
> 
> No side-buttons...So far possible test candidates would be:
> 
> Mionix Castor
> G303
> G402
> Rival 300


You can't palm-claw the G303, I know buy experience. The 402 is rather heavy. The Rival is not ambi and the rival 100 has a crap sensor. The Castor really only works for smaller hands.


----------



## SevenFreak

Ye, I touched the G303 one time and it felt so weird, just wanted to give it another try. G402 would be nice but ye I know its heavy but ordered now G303, G402 and the Castor for testing. I didnt compare the measurements but since I also like the G100, the Castor might be not too bad. Its pretty frustrating..

Could you suggest any good mousepad too? Currently I´m using an older (old Logo) Razer Goliathus Speed - thought about the control edition but have read some threads that a few mice have issues with tracking due to the logo/painting of the mousepad itself. I rather prefer not such a smooth mousepad anymore like the speed but still a cloth one.. I´ve read pretty much about Artisan, QCK+ and stuff but still don´t have any idea (but I ordered now for testing the Control edition though).


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SevenFreak*
> 
> Ye, I touched the G303 one time and it felt so weird, just wanted to give it another try. G402 would be nice but ye I know its heavy but ordered now G303, G402 and the Castor for testing. I didnt compare the measurements but since I also like the G100, the Castor might be not too bad. Its pretty frustrating..
> 
> Could you suggest any good mousepad too? Currently I´m using an older (old Logo) Razer Goliathus Speed - thought about the control edition but have read some threads that a few mice have issues with tracking due to the logo/painting of the mousepad itself. I rather prefer not such a smooth mousepad anymore like the speed but still a cloth one.. I´ve read pretty much about Artisan, QCK+ and stuff but still don´t have any idea (but I ordered now for testing the Control edition though).


QcK Heavy is nice but I would reccomend the Glorious PC Gaming mouse pads. They are 5mm thick and have stitched edges, they also come in a multitude of sizes including 18x16.


----------



## TrantaLocked

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip/claw. Finger tips are used to move the mouse with wrist usually grounded. Hand moves, but rarely do I lift my wrist unless I need to for a quick turn or for following a target.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Windows 6/11. I use 1000 dpi with my SteelSeries Kinzu V3 and default dpi with my DeathAdder 2013.

3. What's your maximum budget?
$60

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not necessary, but it would be a plus

5. What games do you play?
Halo Online (eldewrito) and Fallout 4 at the moment. Occasionally League of Legends.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Must have no prediction or acceleration.

7.Other relevant information:
I'm looking for a super low profile mouse like the Kinzu V3 or Zowie FK, but with an ergonomic right side for my ring and pinky fingers to rest on. The Deathadder provides the finger rest, but it is too large and tall and causes cramps. The Kinzu V3 conversely causes cramps because of the lack of the finger rest slope. The SteelSeries Rival 300 and Zowie EC2 have a good shape but are also too large and tall like the DeathAdder (though I've never tried them, so maybe I'm wrong.).


----------



## SevenFreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> QcK Heavy is nice but I would reccomend the Glorious PC Gaming mouse pads. They are 5mm thick and have stitched edges, they also come in a multitude of sizes including 18x16.


I appreciate your help - just ordered the XL version of the Glorious pad, they look great, black and simple as you might expect it from a good mousepad. I know its most likely a personal preference if the mousepad is 2mm or 5mm - are there any other pros and cons of the too heights?


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SevenFreak*
> 
> I appreciate your help - just ordered the XL version of the Glorious pad, they look great, black and simple as you might expect it from a good mousepad. I know its most likely a personal preference if the mousepad is 2mm or 5mm - are there any other pros and cons of the too heights?


The 2mm feels harder where the 5mm feels alot softer. I prefer 5mm because it helps combat inconsistencies in your desk.


----------



## Robobot

I have the Glorious XL 5mm, and it is amazingly nice on my wrists/hands. I'm not sure I could deal with another thin one as I find (as bruzanHD said) inconsistencies in your desk come through, as well as it being less 'comfortable.'


----------



## SevenFreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Fingertip/claw. Finger tips are used to move the mouse with wrist usually grounded. Hand moves, but rarely do I lift my wrist unless I need to for a quick turn or for following a target.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Windows 6/11. I use 1000 dpi with my SteelSeries Kinzu V3 and default dpi with my DeathAdder 2013.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $60
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not necessary, but it would be a plus
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Halo Online (eldewrito) and Fallout 4 at the moment. Occasionally League of Legends.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Must have no prediction or acceleration.
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I'm looking for a super low profile mouse like the Kinzu V3 or Zowie FK, but with an ergonomic right side for my ring and pinky fingers to rest on. The Deathadder provides the finger rest, but it is too large and tall and causes cramps. The Kinzu V3 conversely causes cramps because of the lack of the finger rest slope. The SteelSeries Rival 300 and Zowie EC2 have a good shape but are also too large and tall like the DeathAdder (though I've never tried them, so maybe I'm wrong.).


Mionix Castor


----------



## sanitarium

What's your grip style?
I'm a palmer, who likes to drag my pinky along the mousepad, current mouse logitech g500

What's your sensitivity?
medium-high, 1.5 inches of movement brings my pointer across 3840 of desktop realestate.

What's your maximum budget?
$100, but i'd be more attracted to the $60 range.

Do you want additional buttons?
just need one additional button, to use as a modifier for keybindings in games, i currently use the extra button on my g500 as "alt", can give this up and happily use the "forward" button as the modifier if remapping supported.

What games do you play?
various MMO's, elite: dangerous (not relevant as i have a hotas..)

Do you mind about prediction?
whatever the g500 has is what i'm comfortable with

Other relevant information:
I like a heavy mouse. currently have my G500 loaded up with the heaviest weights.
Also, i have relatively small hands.. the tip of my thumb barely touches the "forward" button on my current mouse, have to shift my hand slightly to use it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sanitarium*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I'm a palmer, who likes to drag my pinky along the mousepad, current mouse logitech g500
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I like a heavy mouse. currently have my G500 loaded up with the heaviest weights.


Then your ONLY choice should be the CoolerMaster Sentinel 3........ enough said







.


----------



## sanitarium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Then your ONLY choice should be the CoolerMaster Sentinel 3........ enough said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Looking at it now. seems to fit the bill. can't find any for sale though, only tons of (good) reviews.

Edit: scratch that. found it on amazon. thank you!


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sanitarium*
> 
> Looking at it now. seems to fit the bill. can't find any for sale though, only tons of (good) reviews.
> 
> Edit: scratch that. found it on amazon. thank you!


I got mine through here as usual;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262279942769?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Just surprised how quickly it got delivered considering where I live.


----------



## SmOgER

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> ....


Do you live in Kamchatka?


----------



## bLarsson

*What's your grip style?
*Palm grip (20.5 cm long hand).

*What's your sensitivity?
*6/11 Windows, 800 dpi, 1 sensitivity in-game (CS:GO).

*What's your maximum budget?
*Don't really have a max budget.

*Do you want additional buttons?
*Two buttons on the side should suffice, although a tilting scroll-wheel would be nice (but not needed).

*What games do you play?
*Mainly CS:GO, but also some other games from time to time.

*Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't want it, nor do i want acceleration.

*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

I have a Zowie EC1 atm, but i would like something more ''premium'' (RGB-lighting, rubber side-grips etc..)
Ergonomic shape, relatively low weight, low LOD.
''Flawless'' optical sensor.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bLarsson*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?
> *Palm grip (20.5 cm long hand).
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?
> *6/11 Windows, 800 dpi, 1 sensitivity in-game (CS:GO).
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?
> *Don't really have a max budget.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?
> *Two buttons on the side should suffice, although a tilting scroll-wheel would be nice (but not needed).
> 
> *What games do you play?
> *Mainly CS:GO, but also some other games from time to time.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?
> *Don't want it, nor do i want acceleration.
> 
> *Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> I have a Zowie EC1 atm, but i would like something more ''premium'' (RGB-lighting, rubber side-grips etc..)
> Ergonomic shape, relatively low weight, low LOD.
> ''Flawless'' optical sensor.


uhh...lol. Other than the obvious choices of Deathadder, Rival and G502 Spectrum (all of which are heavier than EC1) there really isn't much out there. There are also mice like the Kone XTD Optical and Sentinel III but they are also heavy and lack true "rubber side grips".


----------



## TheBlackPearl

Hello,

*What's your grip style?*

Palm grip (21cm/8.3in long hand and right-handed) that's why I would like to change my Logitech G500 because palm grip is impossible with this mouse and my morphology.

*What's your sensitivity?*

5 700 dpi at 500Mhz.

*What's your maximum budget?*

Don't really have a max budget.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Yes, at least 5. The advantage of the Logitech G500 is additional button are numerous (but not too much) and not all under the thumb. 3 buttons under the thumb, 2 near left click and 3 on the scroll wheel (scroll left/right/middle click) for the G500.

*What games do you play?*

Actually Company of Heroes 2 (RTS). Mostly RTS and FPS games. I like have shortcuts and macro on the mouse and keyboard for playing and working.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction.

*Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

Wired mouse.

Thanks for your advices.


----------



## sanitarium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I got mine through here as usual;
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262279942769?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Just surprised how quickly it got delivered considering where I live.


Got mine through amazon, came in 2 days.
I have to say, perfect, great suggestion. wish the back and forward keys were a hair further down the body, but honestly i think that impression is due to the extremly long time i used my last mouse, and my hand has to get used to the slight change. otherwise love this thing, as much as my cherry mx blues keyboards


----------



## sanitarium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlackPearl*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Palm grip (21cm/8.3in long hand and right-handed) that's why I would like to change my Logitech G500 because palm grip is impossible with this mouse and my morphology.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 5 700 dpi at 500Mhz.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> Don't really have a max budget.
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> Yes, at least 5. The advantage of the Logitech G500 is additional button are numerous (but not too much) and not all under the thumb. 3 buttons under the thumb, 2 near left click and 3 on the scroll wheel (scroll left/right/middle click) for the G500.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Actually Company of Heroes 2 (RTS). Mostly RTS and FPS games. I like have shortcuts and macro on the mouse and keyboard for playing and working.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> No prediction.
> 
> *Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> Wired mouse.
> 
> Thanks for your advices.


your requirements almost match mine. take a look at the coolermaster sentinel 3. prediction and angle snapping are settings in the software that aren't on by default. actually felt weird to me so i gave it a mild bit of angle snapping, otherwise i couldn't move in a straight line to save my life lol


----------



## dmbjohn

hello there

1. What's your grip style?
palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

Windows 7 1500-4000 dpi

3. What's your maximum budget?

none

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I'd like side buttons and a tilt wheel if possible

5. What games do you play?

SWTOR, FFXIV

6. Other relevant information:

currently trying out a razer naga chroma, I find the side buttons a bit far to the back of the mouse as my thumb comes to rest in front of the buttons

wired is preferred.

also in the market to replace an aging razer pro solutions (exactmat) mouse mat (speed side user)

Current mouse: Razer Deathadder 2009


----------



## hokk

*1. What's your grip style?*

G500 Whatever Style that is

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

1600/2400 DPI

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

£100

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

Would like more buttons maybe 6 or 9

*5. What games do you play?*

Mostly MMOs


----------



## tjangel07

What's your grip style?
Claw or Palm

What's your sensitivity?
800

What's your maximum budget?
80$. Cheaper is better though.

Do you want additional buttons?
Just 2 side buttons

What games do you play?
CSGO, GTAV, Dota 2

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. Don't want it.

Other relevant information:
Replacing my Roccat Savu. I don't want Razer products. I'm from the Philippines so some products might not be available here.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I currently have a G13. I was wondering if there is anything else like it on the market besides what Razor has, thanks.


The G13 is a gamepad and it has been the best one I have been able to find. I was wondering if there are any other options besides what Razer has to offer. I would not necessarily be opposed to a game controller, but I would want a good one with lots of buttons that will work with most games.

Thanks.


----------



## azn6138

*What's your grip style?*
Claw, though I don't mind if my palm touches the thing.

*What's your sensitivity?*
As high as possible

*What's your maximum budget?*
$50?

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Not if they require drivers. I'm looking for something that will run on the Windows generic HID compliant mouse driver. No side buttons preferred, but indifferent if Windows supports natively.

*What games do you play?*
Some MMOs, some Starcraft, some DotA2. Not competitive in any of them.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
No.

*Other relevant information:*
Indifferent to shape; right-handed or ambidextrous is fine. Again, must be driverless, and onboard memory preferred.

I'm coming from a Steelseries Kinzu v2, which is great, but it's getting a tad worse for the wear.


----------



## marto7

Hi.Now i am with a Logitech G5 from arround 6 years.I am very pleased with this mouse, but its time for change.The scroll is very scratchy and noisy, no more lube can help and i want to try something new.

1. What's your grip style?

Maybe palm

2. What's your sensitivity?

I use my Logitech G5 on middle speed.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Not very expensive.Something arround 40-50$ maximum

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I dont think so.

5. What games do you play?

I play with the mouse rarely.I play generaly Sport games, but rarely i play FPS like Battlefield, COD

6. Do you mind about prediction?

Dont know what is this.I think not.

7. Other relevant information:

Maybe preffer the wired mouse.For now i am selected few mouses because i sawed it in a good price arround me.Roccat Lua, Razer deathadder 3.5 and Razer abyssus 2014 but i want to hear your opinions.Thanks.

Sorry for the bad english


----------



## esp42089

Little intro: My death adder, after 7 years, has kicked the can. The shape has proven very comfortable for me and I would buy another if I didn't come across such universally damning feedback about Razer's current quality.

*What's your grip style?* palm.

*What's your sensitivity?* Ummmm, low? I use multiple monitors and have thousands of pixels to cross that I'd like to do without moving the mouse more than ~6".
*What's your maximum budget?* No budget. If it is over $100 there should be a compelling reason.
*Do you want additional buttons?* A pair of thumb buttons for back and forward are nice. Otherwise not really.
*What games do you play?* RTS mostly. But this mouse will see limited gaming. It will spend most of it's time in Solidworks.
*Do you mind about prediction?* I have no experience with it. I don't know if it would help or hinder me.
*Other relevant information:* I want a wired mouse. I won't install any software and would prefer driver-less or at least plug and play. I dual boot Linux Mint and Win7. Linux for ordinary use, Win7 for Solidworks and the occasional game. If there is something largely comparable to the deathadder, but built well. I'd jump on that.


----------



## Melan

Just get your self a DA chroma and don't bother. Ymmv with razer quality anyways just like any other brand.
In any case warranty will cover you.

You can try ducky secret though.


----------



## auzcar

I've been out of the game for a while and haven't really kept up with the release of newer models. What are the viable choices now if you want a *big* mouse with a good optical sensor (at least 3310 class)? Are Rival/EC1/DA still king of the hill or are there other choices that are the same size or bigger? Preferably the same size (or bigger) as an IE3.0.


----------



## DanCousins

Hi guys,

Looking for a new mouse. Hopefully you can help me out.

*What's your grip style?*
Palm.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Currently @ 1188 on my Sensei. Happy to use anything from 800-1200.
*What's your maximum budget?*
Don't really have one unless it's an obscene amount of money.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Ideally, two side mouse buttons on each side.
*What games do you play?*
Competitive FPS. CS:GO, TF2, etc.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
You'd have to define prediction for me, I'm not too sure. Whatever makes clicking heads in CS:GO easier.
*Other relevant information:*
Currently using a SS Sensei. Need something without acceleration. The Zowie FK1 is pretty much perfect, except for the button lag issue. G400s is pretty much perfect except the shape is a bit different and I lose two side mouse buttons on the right side.

Honestly, if the G400s and the FK1 could get together and make a little mouse baby with an insane sensor and immediate button response, that'd be just perfect. Sadly, it doesn't look like it's going to happen, so I might just end up buying a G400s.

Most important things are a flawless sensor, fast button response and good build quality. If I have to sacrifice a few mouse buttons for that then so be it.

Cheers.


----------



## iNewbcake

*What's your grip style?*
Mostly Palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
High
*What's your maximum budget?*
Don't care
*Do you want additional buttons?*
The only additional buttons I need are the 2 on the left side.
*What games do you play?*
Most of my time is spend not playing games, but when I do its generally fps, rts, mmo.
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes, prefer not to have it.
*Other relevant information:*
I've been using a g9x for the majority of my life, until that broke down. I loved the shape of that mouse and it was in my opinion the one that suited my hand most.
After it broke down I bought a Feenix Nascita (2012/). And It has been a horrible experience, its the worst mouse I've ever used, apparently the 2014/2015 model is better. But I don't really want to risk it again. The only thing I do like about this mouse is the shape. its sort of similar to the g9x and it suits me well.

It has to work on Linux, if some features are missing that's ok. but it has to fulfill it's main function. I tend to like heavier mice as well.

*Edit:* Had a hard time deciding between the Zowie EC1-A and the Mionix Castor. Went ahead and bought the Castor on a whim, hope I'll like it if not then it's time to try the EC1-A.


----------



## pysn

What's your grip style?
I don't mind but I didnt like my Razer DA 2013's shape at all. I liked Steelseries Kana v2's more so maybe symetrical one would be better.
What's your sensitivity?
63cm/360 to 20cm/360
What's your maximum budget?
$70
Do you want additional buttons?
No.
What games do you play?
CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction?
I want 1:1 movement so i do not want prediction.
Other relevant information:
I tried Steelseries Rİval 100 and it was the worst mouse ive ever used.Crap sensor performance and build quality, I want something durable. I right now look forward to buy a WMO or Kana v2 or maybe Sensei Raw
edit: spaces


----------



## j6k4

*What's your grip style?* Claw/Fingertip hybrid
*What's your sensitivity?* ~30cm/12inches for a 360turn ingame playing on a 1080 res, using ~400DPI in desktop
*What's your maximum budget?* £100
*Do you want additional buttons?* Yes, 2 additional side buttons.
*What games do you play?* Mostly FPS titles & League, precisely COD4, COD2, CSGO, LoL, Rust..
*Do you mind about prediction?* Don't want prediction!
*LOD:* Low LOD please, Used DA:BA which has a high LOD something I didn't really like
*Weight* On the lighter side <100g
*Size* Medium - small
*What mousepad you use?* Black cloth QCK +
*Glossy parts* No glossy sides or tops, only on side buttons if necessary..
*Material* something that doesn't collect sweat, DA:BE has a nice coating on top and sides so similar coating I guess
*Shape* not too crazy
*Button activation force* Something that's easy for fast clicking/spamming. Something that doesn't require too much force to press and register, so that it's easy to fast click, especially when using semi-automatic weapons ingame
*Scrollwheel* Basically I want a mouse with good scroll wheel that doesn't skip nor its easy to do 2 scrolls accidentally since I switch weapons with scrollwheel
*What I'm thinking of to buy?* Something like ZOWIE EC2-A or Kana V2 ? What do you guys recommend will suit my needs based on what I've listed??


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j6k4*
> 
> What do you guys recommend will suit my needs based on what I've listed??


Closest to what you described would be Roccat Kone Pure Military/Optical and Roccat Savu.
Zowies' buttons are considered rather stiff and not advised for games like LoL.
Kana V2 is a solid choice if you can find it. Though white version's top is gloss.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DanCousins*
> 
> Currently using a SS Sensei. Need something without acceleration. The Zowie FK1 is pretty much perfect, except for the button lag issue. G400s is pretty much perfect except the shape is a bit different and I lose two side mouse buttons on the right side.
> 
> Honestly, if the G400s and the FK1 could get together and make a little mouse baby with an insane sensor and immediate button response, that'd be just perfect. Sadly, it doesn't look like it's going to happen, so I might just end up buying a G400s.
> 
> Most important things are a flawless sensor, fast button response and good build quality. If I have to sacrifice a few mouse buttons for that then so be it.
> 
> Cheers.


If you're fine with Sensei shape, you should probably consider Dream Machines DM1 which is basically copy of sensei with optical sensor.
As for side buttons, afaik you can only use one side at a time on Zowies. The only mice that have 2 side buttons on each side that come to mind are EVGA X5 Optical and Mionix Avior. Not sure if they would work with palm grip though.


----------



## j6k4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Closest to what you described would be Roccat Kone Pure Military/Optical and Roccat Savu.
> Zowies' buttons are considered rather stiff and not advised for games like LoL.
> Kana V2 is a solid choice if you can find it. Though white version's top is gloss.


Well I just ordered EC2-A, so hopefully I won't regret. I hope I'll like its shape and the buttons aren't as bad!!







if so I will be selling it and getting the Kana V2 and just tape-trick it to lower the high LOD
I wasn't too keen on the Roccat mice since they are on the heavier side and I wanted to get a lightweight mice. Wish me luck


----------



## kiler4fun

For someone that likes a shape like the Roccat Savu and wants high malfunction speed what can I pick that is decently affordable? I don't even mind if it only has the basic 3 buttons


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiler4fun*
> 
> For someone that likes a shape like the Roccat Savu and wants high malfunction speed what can I pick that is decently affordable? I don't even mind if it only has the basic 3 buttons


Finalmouse


----------



## Shiki666

What's your grip style? Claw and fingertip.
What's your sensitivity? Mainly 1600dpi
What's your maximum budget? 200€
Do you want additional buttons? I dont need them but also dont mind them.
What games do you play? Mainly OSU! and CSGO.
Do you mind about prediction? I want the most raw input i can get. No prediction!
Other relevant information:
It needs to track very fast movements as precisely and fast (reaction time) as possible. I am basically searching for the fastest most precise sensor without any prediction.
As mouspad im using a Roccat Hiro. (3D silicone surface)
I have really no clue what to look for when i search for sensors.

edit: Currently i am using a 2 year old r.a.t 7 which i actually really like. But i dont know what i should think about the dynamic polling rate it uses and there is no way to disable it. And i always hear bad things about its sensor. I have very very rarley issues with it but sometimes i can see why people are complaining about it. In these 2 years i only experienced these x/y issues on my desktop. It never made any problems while gaming.


----------



## kiler4fun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Finalmouse


Which one? They have multiple models, and how is the brand reliability?


----------



## bruzanHD

Finalmouse[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiler4fun*
> 
> Which one? They have multiple models, and how is the brand reliability?


Standard. Brand reliability is subjective.


----------



## obikenobi27

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiki666*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw and fingertip.
> What's your sensitivity? Mainly 1600dpi
> What's your maximum budget? 200€
> Do you want additional buttons? I dont need them but also dont mind them.
> What games do you play? Mainly OSU! and CSGO.
> Do you mind about prediction? I want the most raw input i can get. No prediction!
> Other relevant information:
> It needs to track very fast movements as precisely and fast (reaction time) as possible. I am basically searching for the fastest most precise sensor without any prediction.
> As mouspad im using a Roccat Hiro. (3D silicone surface)
> I have really no clue what to look for when i search for sensors.
> 
> edit: Currently i am using a 2 year old r.a.t 7 which i actually really like. But i dont know what i should think about the dynamic polling rate it uses and there is no way to disable it. And i always hear bad things about its sensor. I have very very rarley issues with it but sometimes i can see why people are complaining about it. In these 2 years i only experienced these x/y issues on my desktop. It never made any problems while gaming.


Daedalus Apex from Logitech. Not comfortable but great for fingertip/claw.


----------



## kevin-L

What's your grip style?
Somewhere between claw and palm, I have kind of fat hands, and not very long fingers
What's your sensitivity?
I usually play on 400 dpi, 1000hz in the 1.9-2.1 in-game range, somewhere around 52cm/360
What's your maximum budget?
Willing to spend up to 100 usd if it's a mouse I can be satisfied with for years
Do you want additional buttons?
I use mouse4/5 often
What games do you play?
I play CS:GO competitively, nothing else really these days
Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction please
Other relevant information:
I prefer lightweight, ergonomic mice that aren't too big. I used the mx518 for a few years, then the g400s after that for another couple years. Since then I've tried the g502 for a few months, which I found to be way too heavy, the mionix naos, which I quit using after 3 days because I couldn't grip it properly at all, and for the past 6 months or so, I've been using the g303. I like the sensor, weight, and click switches of the g303, but the shape has been causing worse and worse pain in my pinky and ring fingers no matter how I try to adjust my grip, so I'm forced to try and find something more comfortable. I've been interested in the ec2-a, but I've heard horror stories about Zowie quality control and click latency/feel, so I haven't been willing to spend the $60 on one with the risk of it not working out. I don't want a mouse with click latency much higher than the Logitech mice I'm used to.


----------



## CStrokesSpecial

What's your grip style?

*Not sure. Hybrid*

What's your sensitivity?

*5.0 in CS GO engine. Middle DPI setting on MX518.*

What's your maximum budget?

*~$75. Cheaper is better.*

Do you want additional buttons?

*Y, if available.*

What games do you play?

*Realism FPS*

Do you mind about prediction?

*?*

Other relevant information:

Used Logitech MX518 for 10 years. Need a replacement. Want:

1. Big mouse. I think I have large hands.
2. Comfort. My index finger and arm hurt after moderate mouse usage. Index finger hurts when clicking.
3. Durability.
4. Performance.
5. If possible, aestethics. No lights, no "gamer" ****. I am not 12 years old.

Mouse must have on-board memory. I will not install any drivers or install drivers only once in virtual machine, program the mouse, uninstall. I never installed any drivers for my MX518 in 10 years of use, so this isn't very important.

Snper button would be nice.

Durable mouse skates. I do not replace mouse skates.

Photos:


http://imgur.com/uHyfj




Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Strong grip.


















I have a big hand (?)


















GIFs. I don't even know why


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CStrokesSpecial*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> *Not sure. Hybrid*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> *5.0 in CS GO engine. Middle DPI setting on MX518.*
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> *~$75. Cheaper is better.*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> *Y, if available.*
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> *Realism FPS*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> *?*
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Used Logitech MX518 for 10 years. Need a replacement. Want:
> 
> 1. Big mouse. I think I have large hands.
> 2. Comfort. My index finger and arm hurt after moderate mouse usage. Index finger hurts when clicking.
> 3. Durability.
> 4. Performance.
> 5. If possible, aestethics. No lights, no "gamer" ****. I am not 12 years old.
> 
> Mouse must have on-board memory. I will not install any drivers or install drivers only once in virtual machine, program the mouse, uninstall. I never installed any drivers for my MX518 in 10 years of use, so this isn't very important.
> 
> Snper button would be nice.
> 
> Durable mouse skates. I do not replace mouse skates.
> 
> Photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/uHyfj
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Strong grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a big hand (?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GIFs. I don't even know why


G502 would probably be good. Failing that a zowie EC1-A would be good aswell.


----------



## kevin-L

I've given up on using the g303 after couple hour gaming session caused finger pain, cramping, and numbness that lasted into the next day. Currently using the g400s, and I'm remembering how comfortable a mouse can actually be. Does anyone know how the ec1-a or ec2-a compares to a g400s in terms of shape and size? How bad is the click latency of the new benq zowies compared to a g303 or g400s?


----------



## Shiki666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obikenobi27*
> 
> Daedalus Apex from Logitech. Not comfortable but great for fingertip/claw.


Thx for the recommendation. Bought it today. Its super light and amazing for fingertip/claw use @1600dpi. It also looks great. I love this mouse!


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Mix between finger tip and palm.
> What's your sensitivity? medium, about 2" per 90 degrees of rotation.
> What's your maximum budget? N/A
> Do you want additional buttons? I need at least 2 side buttons for my thumb.
> What games do you play? Mostly FPS.
> Do you mind about prediction? I do not like prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> I cannot find a mouse big enough for me. Currently I'm using a G400, but I need something about 30-50% larger. I can't properly track while clicking because I can't hold it right, my hand starts to cramp up. I don't necessarily have huge hands, I just prefer having a larger grip.
> 
> So far this is the only mouse that fits the size, but it lacks side buttons and DPI adjustment: https://usb.brando.com/usb-giant-mouse_p03429c037d015.html
> 
> No I'm not joking, I'm seriously looking for a mouse that is about that size. I was thinking about buying that mouse and swapping the internals.


Still have not found a mouse. Still using the G400. At work I have this crappy dell thing that I need to replace. I was looking at the Hippus Handshoe. It looks like it would fit my hand, but they're low quality according to some of the reviews, and the buttons are too close together for the size of it.

I want a more ergonomic design, but most I've seen are too small, lack hand support, and are wireless, which is a no.


----------



## maikklein

What's your grip style?
A hybrid of a finger / claw grip.

What's your sensitivity?
800dpi and in csgo 1.0 sens.

What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter

Do you want additional buttons?
No

What games do you play?
Csgo

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

Other relevant information:
LOD as low as possible,
weight as LOW as possible
wired,
optical,
build quality

I currently have the Zowie Ec1-A and I quite like it. The shape is almost perfect but the mousewheel is just horrible. It often randomly detects scrolls at fast movements.

I would like a mouse that is close to the Ec1-A with roughly the same weight. Honestly I even think the Ec1-A could be lighter but its probably one of the the lightest mice.

I had an G5 in the past and I actually like the form a bit more than the Ec1-A, even though the shape is extremely similar.

Update: I have to take everything I said above back, I bought the Ec1-A when I played LoL and the mouse didn't really matter that much.

The Ec1A really feels very very good in my hand but it is much harder for me to hit shots in csgo than the sensei currently and I am playing with the Ec1A for around 5 months now.

It seems that I am really looking for something similar to the sensei.


----------



## Nomad692000

NM


----------



## mtaki14

I'm looking to replace a dying Roccat Kone Pure Optical, which I absolutely loved. Had it for a bit more than two years now but playing too much league has taken its toll on the right mouse button. It now randomly "sticks" and barely clicks so I guess it's near the end of its lifecycle.

*What's your grip style?*

Alternate between fingertip and claw grip depending on situation. I have small hands.

*What's your sensitivity?*

On the very lower end, 800dpi

*What's your maximum budget?*

Around the price of the Roccat Kone PO but I'm willing to go more if it's worth it.

*Do you want additional buttons?*

Hm, not necessarily. I barely used the sidebuttons but sure, I wouldn't mind the same or similar setup. But something like the Razer Naga would be totally useless for me.

*What games do you play?*

Mostly League of legends and the odd action rpg, currently playing Grim Dawn. So basically games that require a LOT of clicking.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

Would rather get something with a similar sensor to the Kone PO, so yeah no prediction for me.

I am really interested in the Zowie range of mice but not sure which one would be good for me. I am open to every option though but would rather have something on the sturdier side, which is going to last a while. I absolutely adored the Kone PO's mousewheel.


----------



## Rex800

Hey overclock community! I know here are a lot of people with very good knowledge, so I need your opinions on a new mouse.
Quote:


> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> *Palm*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> *Mid (around 35cm*)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> *Doesn't matter.*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> *Yes, thumb buttons are a must.*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> *Shooters on esport level.*


I currently own and play the Steelseries Sensei. I can't really cope with the DeathAdder shape, I prefer a flat one.

What mouse would you recommend me and why? Further explanation is highly appreciated!


----------



## Protek

What's your grip style?
Fingertip Grip
What's your sensitivity?
800DPI
What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter.
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes
What games do you play?
Shooters

I was thinking about getting a FK2 or Zowie ZA13 zowie the palm of my hand and a little big about 19 to 21cm would like to know if they are a good option and which, more suitable for my grip


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Protek*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip Grip
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> Doesn't matter.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes
> What games do you play?
> Shooters
> 
> I was thinking about getting a FK2 or Zowie ZA13 zowie the palm of my hand and a little big about 19 to 21cm would like to know if they are a good option and which, more suitable for my grip


ZA13, by far. FK2 is terrible for my fingertip grip from experience, the butt is too wide and hits the inside of my thumb.


----------



## Protek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> ZA13, by far. FK2 is terrible for my fingertip grip from experience, the butt is too wide and hits the inside of my thumb.


I understand friend thank you for your help, I really had thought it would happen with FK2 because my hand and big and my fingers too! thank you once again for your help, but ZA13 zowie really would be good for fingertip grip!


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Protek*
> 
> I understand friend thank you for your help, I really had thought it would happen with FK2 because my hand and big and my fingers too! thank you once again for your help, but ZA13 zowie really would be good for fingertip grip!


Though keep in mind that my style of fingertip grip predominantly uses my digits for horizontal movement as well, like the person in this video:






So I personally require a rear that is slimmer than those who hold with fingertip but primarily use their wrist for horizontal movement.


----------



## Protek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Though keep in mind that my style of fingertip grip predominantly uses my digits for horizontal movement as well, like the person in this video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I personally require a rear that is slimmer than those who hold with fingertip but primarily use their wrist for horizontal movement.


I understand I will search a little more about this mouse and I'll also take a look at other zowie mice with the same size, Thanks for the help! you think EC2-A will be a good choice?


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

I'm posting this here because it seems like a decent place for it, but as a left handed user, why the hell are there ambidextrous mice with side buttons only on one side, like the Logitech G303, Tt mice and some others? I'd love to use another Logitech mouse, but the fact they only have it on one side for ambidextrous (I really don't like what they did with the G300S) really hampers me and limits my choices. Currently using an EVGA Torq X5 and I love it, but just thought of getting this off my chest.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> I'm posting this here because it seems like a decent place for it, but as a left handed user, why the hell are there ambidextrous mice with side buttons only on one side, like the Logitech G303, Tt mice and some others? I'd love to use another Logitech mouse, but the fact they only have it on one side for ambidextrous (I really don't like what they did with the G300S) really hampers me and limits my choices. Currently using an EVGA Torq X5 and I love it, but just thought of getting this off my chest.


I was left handed for a long, long time but switched from left handed to right handed full-time in December, I had used right handed ergo mice before then but it was never really comfortable for me. I was pretty annoyed at how much left handed users get shafted by the market as well (as can be seen in the FM thread.) but hey...at least I'm ambidextrous now.


----------



## the9quad

What's your grip style? Clawing
What's your sensitivity? 6 800-1600 dpi (500hz)
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? yes
What games do you play? Rainbow Six: Siege, BF4, CoD etc..
Do you mind about prediction? not sure, but if it is bad then yes i mind
Other relevant information: Coming from a CM Storm Spawn, would like a replacement that is an upgrade in sensor, features, quality etc.. (love the spawn though)
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
The spawn still works great btw, just looking for something new/better to replace it. Was originally looking for another spawn, but since they no longer make them the cheapest I could find was $140.....

How is the Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum?


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Tried out the G500s. It fit my hand good enough, but that's the only positive thing I have to say about it.

There's an extreme amount of acceleration that can't be disabled, or the sensor malfunctions at low speeds. Enhanced pointer precision is unchecked in the logitech gaming software.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the9quad*
> 
> 
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


If it wasn't for this requirement I would recommend the G303. However the G303 has a braided cable, is very light weight, and has very low activation force. Everyone I know with the G502 loves it, but it is not ambi.


----------



## the9quad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> If it wasn't for this requirement I would recommend the G303. However the G303 has a braided cable, is very light weight, and has very low activation force. Everyone I know with the G502 loves it, but it is not ambi.


Woops I just copied that part, I dont mind a braided cord at all. Is the 303 better than the 502?


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the9quad*
> 
> Woops I just copied that part, I dont mind a braided cord at all. Is the 303 better than the 502?


Do you want it to be ambi or ergo?

From my understanding the internals are identical, but the G303 is smaller, lighter, and ambi (PERFECT for Claw / Palm hybrid players, like myself). I hate ergo mice because it makes me hold the mouse at an angle which ruins my spray in CS, so I NEED ambi.

EDIT: Just realized what you meant by 'woops I just copied that'
















I went from FK1 to ZA12 to G303. I used my ZA12 for about a week before taking the risk on the G303 and I'm glad I did. G303 is the perfect mouse for me at the moment. If you can get used the awkward shape (wide at the palms, but not tall like the ZA) then it's an amazing mouse.


----------



## the9quad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Do you want it to be ambi or ergo?
> 
> From my understanding the internals are identical, but the G303 is smaller, lighter, and ambi (PERFECT for Claw / Palm hybrid players, like myself). I hate ergo mice because it makes me hold the mouse at an angle which ruins my spray in CS, so I NEED ambi.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized what you meant by 'woops I just copied that'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went from FK1 to ZA12 to G303. I used my ZA12 for about a week before taking the risk on the G303 and I'm glad I did. G303 is the perfect mouse for me at the moment. If you can get used the awkward shape (wide at the palms, but not tall like the ZA) then it's an amazing mouse.


Thanks a ton man. +rep


----------



## LDV617

My pleasure, if you have any questions about the FK1 vs ZA12 vs G303 let me know.

EDIT: Also, if you want Logitech internals, but don't like the shapes available, you can wait for the Finalmouse ScreamOne, which will feature the Logitech sensor and buttons / scrollwheel (from what is rumored). But it's looking like a long wait before they hit amazon. I was waiting for this mouse before I bought my g303


----------



## Lsoqp8844

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? Not particularly fussy about this. I just don't want something that shoots the pointer across the screen from a nudge of the mouse
What's your maximum budget? Don't really have a set budget. Would be interested to see what mid and high end models are out there though
Do you want additional buttons? Excluding left, right and middle/scroll buttons, and those DPI and mode buttons, I'm looking for an additional 3 or 4 buttons.
What games do you play? FPS and RTS
Do you mind about prediction? Preferable, with option to disable, but not a requirement.
Other relevant information: Unless a mouse works with a 10m extension cable (which I highly doubt), I'm saddened to have to settle for wireless. So my main concern is getting a wireless mouse that minimises input lag.
Also, is there another way to power a wireless mouse, other than through batteries? Wireless charging through mousepad, or a wired mouse with dedicated power, but wireless data transmission?


----------



## Alya

I mean the G900 got officially announced recently and seems to fit the bill there, if you don't mind stupidly shaped brick mice that are overpriced.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I mean the G900 got officially announced recently and seems to fit the bill there, if you don't mind stupidly shaped brick mice that are overpriced.


Everyone loves spaceship mice and absurdly high price tags!









Also, would anyone recommend that I test the GX1-Pro. How similar is it, both build and performance-wise, to the KanaV2?


----------



## gregor197

What's your grip style?
Palm.
What's your sensitivity?
Currently using the RAT 9 at max(6400dpi).
What's your maximum budget?
None.
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. I'd prefer to have more than 3.
What games do you play?
Mostly MMOs and RPGs.
Do you mind about prediction?
No.
Other relevant information:
Past mice: Logitech G500, Logitech G700S(broke after a few months), Mad Catz RAT 9(current)
Currently looking at Mad Catz MMO 7, Corsair Scimitar, Roccat Nyth.


----------



## the9quad

Got my wife a new E-reader tonight, and in return she let me grab the G303 (yeah it works like that sometimes around here), can't wait to try it out, and appreciate the advice in this thread.

Edit- finally got to try it out, and so I set it up. Adjusted the settings, and set my surface for some kind of cloth pad, it was terrible, I was like this thing is crap.

Then I switched it back to default, and this is my favorite mouse ever already! Love the way the scroll wheel feels, the mouse buttons feel, and the tracking. So much better than that CM spawn I had. I heard alot of complaints about the shape, but it really doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## Smackymander

What's your grip style? Palm? It's hard to explain; it's sort of palm, but my entire hand dosen't always rest entirely on the mouse, often it's just the base to midle of my palm on the mouse, and I hold the rest of my mouse with my fingertips, but when not playing a game, it's palm, or a palm grip that extends over the edge of the mouse, I've tried to add some pictures in order to help explain myself.

Mousegrip 62k .jpg file


Mousegrip 64k .jpg file


Mousegrip 45k .jpg file

What's your sensitivity? ~800 dpi - I go from around 650 to 1000 depending on what I'm doing, and how I'm feeling - some days I'll be tired and use a higher dpi in games because I don't want to change my settings for when I'm not tired.
What's your maximum budget? I don't really have one, right now I have ~£35 (enough to buy the "Logitech G302 Daedalus Prime MOBA Gaming Mouse Black" on amazon.co.uk). I don't have a budget, since I can spend however much I want on a mouse, once I get my hands on some more money (which should be fairly soon), but I don't particularly have a priority on buying a mouse, since my current mouse is OK for me.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, ideally at least 2 but no more than 10 or so, I don't want too many buttons put in strange places, since I wouldn't use them, and if it's an mmo mouse, I'd probably press the wrong one. Still, if it doesn't have extra buttons, or has a lot in (semi) reasonable places, then I'm willing to look.
What games do you play? Mostly FPS games, especially Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, metro some RPGs; fallout, Elder Scrolls, hand of fate, shadow run , and a few top down games, hotline Miami, nuclear throne, sometimes star craft 2, and hearthstone, though these are less important . Steam profile to see what I play, if I've not made myself clear; http://steamcommunity.com/id/Smackymander/
Do you mind about prediction? I'd like a mouse to be more accurate, so no, if possible, and if a mouse has it, then I'd like it to be enabled/disabled in drivers or on the mouse. I can see why someone would want it, but I wouldn't like it for most of my use.
Other relevant information:
¦¦¦ I usually play at a fairly low sensitivity and don't lift my current mouse too high up - I don't have a preference for this, so long as it's not ridiculously high.
¦¦¦ Shape isn't really a necessity to me, I've been using a steel series sensei raw for about a year and a half, but before that I'd been using a cheap £10 wireless, which was a generic "ergonomic" mouse, which seems to be a common mouse shell.
¦¦¦ I'd prefer a lighter mouse, but weight doesn't really matter too much I use my entire arm to move my mouse, and I usually dig my hand into my mouse, so it doesn't matter for me. I'd prefer something lighter, but it's not a large issue.
¦¦¦ Wireless doesn't matter for me; if it preforms and is wireless, sure, if it's wireless, but not always excellent, then no.
¦¦¦ I don't mind what the cord is like, just so long as it's made to last, the cord on my steel series sensei raw, which usually drags on the edge of my desk/wall is fine, and has been doing so for about 8-9 months. Equaly, I've had bad braided cables, and good none braided cables in my headphones, so it's not overall an issue, so long as it's tough.
¦¦¦ Finish isn't a huge issue for me, rubberized is nice, but it's not a necessity.
¦¦¦ WIth regards to button activation force, I'm not really sure, I've used (what seems to be) fairly light mice, with the sensei raw. All I want is for it to be easy enough to spam, but not so light that it doesn't feel mushy.
¦¦¦ Driverless and onboard memory doesn't matter to me, I prefer mice with drivers just for the ability to tweak settings a bit more, but it dosn't matter, so long as the dpi goes up in sensible increments, not like the tek syndicate mouse going up in 1000s. With regards to onboard memory, it dosen't particularly matter to me, since if the mouse does have drivers, I just have to quickly go onto the drivers, and adjust the dpi, and make a quick bind on one of the mouse buttons.
¦¦¦ Previous mice: Steelseries sensei raw, wireless anker mouse (the mouse says 2.4g wireless mouse is the model, but a google search comes up with many different mice. The same body is used loads, however, since my brother's mouse and my cousin's mouse, both of which have different brands, all look the same, with maybe a rubber grip on the side or not), and a dell mouse that came with a laptop.
¦¦¦ I live in the UK so some mice brands are a little hard to get a hold of, overall it's not awful. Prices are also a lot more expensive, for example, if I try to import a logitech g502 from ebay.com it'll save me £10-£20, since the prices for tech in the UK are awful, when compared to the US (example; a gtx 970 costs £286~ on amazon.co.uk, but the same card costs $324~, or about £227, so yeah).
¦¦¦ I use a QcK+ mouse pad, which is a black mouse pad, but I'm somewhat interested in getting a white mouse pad. It's not major, but I've heard that it can affect tracking.
¦¦¦ If a mouse has feet that wear away easily, it's fine, so long as they can be replaced, and more so if they can be replaced with better feet.
¦¦¦ I'd probably use the mouse mostly for csgo, and I have the QcK+, so even if the mouse dosn't have a full dpi control, it dosn't matter too much, provided it has an option between 400 and 1000 dpi.


----------



## ptosis

What's your grip style?
Fingertip.

What's your sensitivity?
Currently using an EVGA Torq X10 with a Avago ADNS 9800 at 6400 dpi. I tend to switch based on applications. Probably won't ever need more than 6400dpi until i get a 4k monitor (thats how it works, right?)

What's your maximum budget?
No max budget, but I'd rather buy a well priced product that is well built.

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes. I absolutely need mouse back and mouse forward buttons. I also find 'on the fly dpi switching' handy, although I'm ready to let that go.

What games do you play?
Starcraft 2. I play Starcraft 2. Lots of it. Lil bit of cs go on the side.

Do you mind about prediction?
No opinions yet. Never had an opportunity to a/b test them, not gonna pretend i know what i'm talking about here.

Other relevant information:
Past mice: Bundled, lowest tier stuff -> Evga Torq X10.
Currently looking at G303.

Edit: also, this is the mouse mat i own: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826991001


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregor197*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm.
> What's your sensitivity?
> Currently using the RAT 9 at max(6400dpi).
> What's your maximum budget?
> None.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes. I'd prefer to have more than 3.
> What games do you play?
> Mostly MMOs and RPGs.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No.
> Other relevant information:
> Past mice: Logitech G500, Logitech G700S(broke after a few months), Mad Catz RAT 9(current)
> Currently looking at Mad Catz MMO 7, Corsair Scimitar, Roccat Nyth.


The corsair scimitar seems to be the best options, solid build and few gimmicks.


----------



## Trax416

What's your grip style? - Relaxed Palm Grip, so a claw/palm grip hybrid. - I have 17.5 cm hands, so on the small side in length, but wide

What's your sensitivity? - 1600

What's your maximum budget? - $100 CAD

Do you want additional buttons? - Two on the side is fine

What games do you play? - CS:GO, Battlefield, Overwatch, lots of shooters.

Do you mind about prediction? - Do not want predication or acceleration or anything. As raw as possible.

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I am looking for as accurate as possible. I am currently using the Mionix Castor and find it a bit floaty compared to my old Savu. I am looking for something raw, with great accuracy and the best sensor possible. Accuracy is extremely important to me.


----------



## kevin-L

I'm having a real hard time finding a new mouse I can use as well as my g400s, which is starting to die, and becoming more and more impossible to buy at a reasonable price.

I'm a competitive CS:GO player currently using 400dpi 1.85 sens, raw input, no maccel, I want a lightweight mouse with low click latency and a top of the line modern sensor

Mice I've tried replacing my g400s with:
g502 - too heavy, shape wasn't quite as natural as the g400s, I would try some weight reduction mods but I lost the damn thing...

Mionix Naos 7000 - I tried for 3 days to find a good way to grip this mouse but I couldn't. I need to be able to securely lift the mouse while playing, I couldn't with this one

g303 - I loved the sensor, weight, and click feel, but the shape started causing pain and numbness in my little finger no matter how I attempted to adjust my grip

Zowie EC1-A - I liked the shape, it wasn't as natural as the g400s, particularly the right side of the mouse was a bit hard to grip, I think I would like the ec2-a but the buttons and scroll wheel of the ec1-a were so bad that I'm not interested in zowie anymore. The mousefeet were pretty slow but I believe hyperglides are available so I guess I could solve that...

After using all of these I still can't find anything that I can aim better with than the g400s, despite the 3366 and even the 3310 feeling like much more accurate sensors. The ec1-a came close, I would probably be pretty happy with an ec2-a with hyperglides if Zowie's clicks and scrollwheels weren't so horrible to use.


----------



## santahashi

Hi guys, i'm currently using DA 2013, its great mice (my opinion) but it seem to be not so fit for me as i have sweaty and oily hands, after 1 year of using, the side grip became really annoying since i have to use tissue to make it dry every single time.So as the title say, im looking foward to change my mouse, any suggestions? I just yet have eyes on some of the mouse like Roccat Kova 2016, KPM, Zowie ZA 12, ASUS ROG Gladius, ASUS Claw.... Wonder which one will be best suitable for me ? Thanks thumb.gif


----------



## v0rtex-SI

If you liked DA shape you should try zowie EC series!


----------



## santahashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> If you liked DA shape you should try zowie EC series!


In my country, its only Zowie Gear EC2 eVo CL Gaming Mouse available, will it be a little bit old? I'm more thiking about the cougar 300M


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Looking for a LIGHTWEIGHT mouse (almost #1 priority) with decent sensor that isn't Logitech, Razer or FM

The SteelSeries Kana v2 looks like an okay option (can't get it fairly cheap on eBay brand new) but 10ms click delay

Zowie (refresh) more costly but less click delay (like 1-3 ms faster)

Any other ideas?

(Less money the better, I suppose)


----------



## mrmo1st

I use my mouse regularly for net browsing but I play a fair share of games (sc2, osu, csgo and dota). Don't really have a budget. The length from the bottom of my hand to my middle finger is 17 cm. I use a claw grip, but when I'm not gaming it's a hybrid. I play 1k to 1.5k dpi. It needs to have at least one mouse button. No acceleration as well.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Looking for a LIGHTWEIGHT mouse (almost #1 priority) with decent sensor that isn't Logitech, Razer or FM
> 
> The SteelSeries Kana v2 looks like an okay option (can't get it fairly cheap on eBay brand new) but 10ms click delay
> 
> Zowie (refresh) more costly but less click delay (like 1-3 ms faster)
> 
> Any other ideas?
> 
> (Less money the better, I suppose)


Mionix Castor or Avoir 7000.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrmo1st*
> 
> I use my mouse regularly for net browsing but I play a fair share of games (sc2, osu, csgo and dota). Don't really have a budget. The length from the bottom of my hand to my middle finger is 17 cm. I use a claw grip, but when I'm not gaming it's a hybrid. I play 1k to 1.5k dpi. It needs to have at least one mouse button. No acceleration as well.


Logitech G303 or G502, and if you have the money G900. Mionix Avoir 7000, castor or a Zowie mouse is also good options, but their sensors are slightly worse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *santahashi*
> 
> In my country, its only Zowie Gear EC2 eVo CL Gaming Mouse available, will it be a little bit old? I'm more thiking about the cougar 300M


Stay away from cougar. Roccat Kone Pure Miltary is probaly the best option.


----------



## munchzilla

copypasting this from my thread to try here:

it's a little more involved than following the template, as I have a lot of gripes with most mice









---

hello!

I'm looking for the holy grail I think, maybe not as picky as title says to be fair... but here goes:

right handed ergo, good sensor that does not jitter at 800-1200 dpi, snappy feel (smoothing? I still don't know if this is measurable), low click latency, nice supple cable (braided is fine, I can debraid)
low weight, lighter buttons, GOOD scroll wheel (I can't stand the Zowie crap for example...), extra buttons are whatever, but 3-button or 5-button is preferred.

and a quite tricky part:
I want to be able to fit MX-1 (Logitech MX500, 510, 518v1) or MS-3 (MS 3.0, 1.1, WMO) mouse feet on it. no other feet are as good in shape as these, and feel as good on my pad. dumb logitech feet please no frown.gif

I don't like a flat shape, I want to be able to rest my hand almost vertically, meaning it has to have a taller butt, and not too steep angle? not even sure how to explain my grip. tongue.gif
I have my hand rotated quite a bit, so that it's almost vertical in angle, in a fingertip grip, but I kind of squeeze my hand and put palm (making it claw like) on it when I need to do fast swipes, and then adjust afterwards.
it needs to be comfortable enough to rest hand on when not gaming, this was my main gripe with G303. frown.gif

no prediction/accel/SRAV/etc but I don't think I need to mention that. tongue.gif
so, no avago 9500/9800, and maybe no 3090 due to jitter issues from experience.
cloth pad is a Fnatic Focus G1 Deskpad, super smooth all-black cloth pad.
1.5 sensitivity in TF2, 800dpi. not sure what that translates into in cm/360, but I swipe pretty fast. >2.5m/sec

LOD should be adjustable preferrably, due to swapping feet, but if it's OK stock... then no worries.

weight <120g is fine tbh, I guess not that low after all, but lower is of course better. thumb.gif

Thank you!


----------



## k4rstar

1. What's your grip style?
Hybrid fingertip grip, the majority of the time when precision is required only my fingertips make contact with the mouse, otherwise I will use a more relaxed grip so as to reduce strain.

2. What's your sensitivity?
I am usually on 400DPI.

3. What's your maximum budget?
Money isn't an object as long as it's obtainable in Canada.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Don't need any.

5. What games do you play?
Mostly CS:GO now.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I assume this means accel? No, I don't want any sort of accel.

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Light weight, preferably no braided cable. I'm in a difficult position because both Finalmouse and Zowie mice are currently out of stock everywhere and these seem to be the best options for me. I am currently stuck using a glossy Sensei as the switches on my Finalmouse 2016 have broken. I would prefer a mouse that doesn't get grimey/dirty or can be cleaned easily as I have sweaty palms. e.g. Rival 300 coating is awful and gets unbelievably disgusting.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> copypasting this from my thread to try here:
> 
> it's a little more involved than following the template, as I have a lot of gripes with most mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> hello!
> 
> I'm looking for the holy grail I think, maybe not as picky as title says to be fair... but here goes:
> 
> right handed ergo, good sensor that does not jitter at 800-1200 dpi, snappy feel (smoothing? I still don't know if this is measurable), low click latency, nice supple cable (braided is fine, I can debraid)
> low weight, lighter buttons, GOOD scroll wheel (I can't stand the Zowie crap for example...), extra buttons are whatever, but 3-button or 5-button is preferred.
> 
> and a quite tricky part:
> I want to be able to fit MX-1 (Logitech MX500, 510, 518v1) or MS-3 (MS 3.0, 1.1, WMO) mouse feet on it. no other feet are as good in shape as these, and feel as good on my pad. dumb logitech feet please no frown.gif
> 
> I don't like a flat shape, I want to be able to rest my hand almost vertically, meaning it has to have a taller butt, and not too steep angle? not even sure how to explain my grip. tongue.gif
> I have my hand rotated quite a bit, so that it's almost vertical in angle, in a fingertip grip, but I kind of squeeze my hand and put palm (making it claw like) on it when I need to do fast swipes, and then adjust afterwards.
> it needs to be comfortable enough to rest hand on when not gaming, this was my main gripe with G303. frown.gif
> 
> no prediction/accel/SRAV/etc but I don't think I need to mention that. tongue.gif
> so, no avago 9500/9800, and maybe no 3090 due to jitter issues from experience.
> cloth pad is a Fnatic Focus G1 Deskpad, super smooth all-black cloth pad.
> 1.5 sensitivity in TF2, 800dpi. not sure what that translates into in cm/360, but I swipe pretty fast. >2.5m/sec
> 
> LOD should be adjustable preferrably, due to swapping feet, but if it's OK stock... then no worries.
> 
> weight <120g is fine tbh, I guess not that low after all, but lower is of course better. thumb.gif
> 
> Thank you!


Look up the Zowie ZA11/12/13 series.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *k4rstar*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Hybrid fingertip grip, the majority of the time when precision is required only my fingertips make contact with the mouse, otherwise I will use a more relaxed grip so as to reduce strain.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> I am usually on 400DPI.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Money isn't an object as long as it's obtainable in Canada.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Don't need any.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mostly CS:GO now.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I assume this means accel? No, I don't want any sort of accel.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Light weight, preferably no braided cable. I'm in a difficult position because both Finalmouse and Zowie mice are currently out of stock everywhere and these seem to be the best options for me. I am currently stuck using a glossy Sensei as the switches on my Finalmouse 2016 have broken. I would prefer a mouse that doesn't get grimey/dirty or can be cleaned easily as I have sweaty palms. e.g. Rival 300 coating is awful and gets unbelievably disgusting.


Logitech G303 maybe? CM storm xornet ii might be good but has a slightly Worse sensor than the 303'.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Look up the Zowie ZA11/12/13 series.


hi!
actually already tried these, the grip is too much like an 8 shape, I can't find a comfortable place to put my ring/pinky fingers. bending my ring finger too much.









also, the scroll wheel is typical Zowie... very very bad.

thank you!


----------



## Takonic

[*] What's your grip style?
Hybrid palm/fingertip, which leans more on fingertip

[*] What's your sensitivity?
1200 usually

[*] What's your maximum budget?
100~130 Canadian dollars

[*] Do you want additional buttons?
just 2 buttons on the left, anymore im okay with

[*] What games do you play?
everything, Dota 2(2k+hours),CS:GO(275 hours) and WoW(on and off, but do serious raiding when I do play)

[*] Do you mind about prediction?
not sure?

[*] Other relevant information:
prefer something with non soft-touch/rubber coating and no Hump(have a naga 2012, and tried a Deathadder.absolutely cant stand the hump.) I have spent a weeks time with each and cant get used to it.

I also tend to lift my mouse quite often when using it. Ergo would be a plus too

thanks and any recommendations?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Takonic*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style?
> Hybrid palm/fingertip, which leans more on fingertip
> 
> [*] What's your sensitivity?
> 1200 usually
> 
> [*] What's your maximum budget?
> 100~130 Canadian dollars
> 
> [*] Do you want additional buttons?
> just 2 buttons on the left, anymore im okay with
> 
> [*] What games do you play?
> everything, Dota 2(2k+hours),CS:GO(275 hours) and WoW(on and off, but do serious raiding when I do play)
> 
> [*] Do you mind about prediction?
> not sure?
> 
> [*] Other relevant information:
> prefer something with non soft-touch/rubber coating and no Hump(have a naga 2012, and tried a Deathadder.absolutely cant stand the hump.) I have spent a weeks time with each and cant get used to it.
> 
> I also tend to lift my mouse quite often when using it. Ergo would be a plus too
> 
> thanks and any recommendations?


CM Storm Xornet II.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> hi!
> actually already tried these, the grip is too much like an 8 shape, I can't find a comfortable place to put my ring/pinky fingers. bending my ring finger too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, the scroll wheel is typical Zowie... very very bad.
> 
> thank you!


Maybe CM Storm Xornet II?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> CM Storm Xornet II.
> Maybe CM Storm Xornet II?


I was eyeing this one, but I heard not so great things about the 1000 CPI setting (malfunction speed at ~2m/sec? I hit malfunction speeds with the G100s at 2.5 all the time when I had it







)

it does have the best shape I have ever used on a mouse assuming it is the same as the CM Storm Spawn.
Click latency seems acceptable... but I have only seen one test so far. though likely good enough







I have found I am OK with anything that scores <10ms higher than the G300 in the japanese guy's tests.

will have to research a bit more, so far it seems OK... I am very afraid scroll wheel will be terrible, or at least not durable enough, seeing as it also uses TTC switches for the wheel.
I am a scroll wheel abuser as I use it to jump (bunny hopping) in games, and I've managed to destroy pretty much all microsoft mice, zowie mice, some logitechs, one Mionix, and also all the Steelseries mice except the Rivals and Ikaris cause I didn't keep those long enough.
any skipping in scrolling or weird sticky feel (stuck between steps) is a no-go for me.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I was eyeing this one, but I heard not so great things about the 1000 CPI setting (malfunction speed at ~2m/sec? I hit malfunction speeds with the G100s at 2.5 all the time when I had it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> it does have the best shape I have ever used on a mouse assuming it is the same as the CM Storm Spawn.
> Click latency seems acceptable... but I have only seen one test so far. though likely good enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have found I am OK with anything that scores <10ms higher than the G300 in the japanese guy's tests.
> 
> will have to research a bit more, so far it seems OK... I am very afraid scroll wheel will be terrible, or at least not durable enough, seeing as it also uses TTC switches for the wheel.
> I am a scroll wheel abuser as I use it to jump (bunny hopping) in games, and I've managed to destroy pretty much all microsoft mice, zowie mice, some logitechs, one Mionix, and also all the Steelseries mice except the Rivals and Ikaris cause I didn't keep those long enough.
> any skipping in scrolling or weird sticky feel (stuck between steps) is a no-go for me.


Glad i can help, rember to rep if you found somone helpfull! You could try to to mod your prefered mice internals in to the Xornet IIs Shell? Seems to be your only option besides settling for something not optimal.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Help me decide which mouse to settle (read: compromise) on:

G100s: better sensor, gives me total reliability for 180-deg glances, lighter weight, but slightly too large and weight shifted too much towards the front to be comfortable. However, rounded butt allows for the rolling leftward extension movement which I frequently use.

G9: sensor is acceptable, maybe a little less reliable for 180-glances but I can live with slowing down a little, and slightly heavier, but perfect center of gravity. Offset sensor position plus LMB shape makes for a unique pinching grip (a subclassification of fingertip grip) that I kind of like, but the sharp bottom-left butt impedes the rolling-leftward extension that I frequently use. I can compensate by using my wrist for extreme-left motion, but often displaces the vertical alignment as I am not accustomed to wrist-turning.

For tuning the weight of the G100s, I've tried putting a 7g weight right behind the screw post at the extreme rear of the mouse, which balances the mouse perfectly but the radius of gyration is way too long for nimble movements. Putting the 13g weight at the original location has the perfect polar moment of inertia but overall too heavy. Having no weight at all forces me to hold the mouse too much towards the front.


----------



## Klinkenator

Hi im new to the forum and need help find the right mouse to settle on.

*1. What's your grip style?*
Mostly palm, i do use clawgrip for more accurate accuracy

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
1080DPI

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
between £35 and 40£

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Two on the left side

*5. What games do you play?*
CS:GO, Grim Dawn, Battlefield, XCOM 2 and Guild wars 2 off and on.

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
Not at all, any assistance is welcome.

*7. Other relevant information:*

*Mice atm:* Mionix NAOS 5000
*LOD:* min-mid range.
*Weight:* as heavy as possible, atm i have 20g in my mouse, and quite like the weight but it may be heavier.
*Shape:* would like something similar to the Mionix 5000, where i can have my ring and little finger on the side.
*Braided:* had most succes with it so far its what i prefer.
*Finish:* rubberized would be nice but its not necessary.
*With driver:* or as long as i can tweak the DPI setting im happy.

looking forward to your response, thanks in advance.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klinkenator*
> 
> Hi im new to the forum and need help find the right mouse to settle on.
> 
> *1. What's your grip style?*
> Mostly palm, i do use clawgrip for more accurate accuracy
> 
> *2. What's your sensitivity?*
> 1080DPI
> 
> *3. What's your maximum budget?*
> between £35 and 40£
> 
> *4. Do you want additional buttons?*
> Two on the left side
> 
> *5. What games do you play?*
> CS:GO, Grim Dawn, Battlefield, XCOM 2 and Guild wars 2 off and on.
> 
> *6. Do you mind about prediction?*
> Not at all, any assistance is welcome.
> 
> *7. Other relevant information:*
> 
> *Mice atm:* Mionix NAOS 5000
> *LOD:* min-mid range.
> *Weight:* as heavy as possible, atm i have 20g in my mouse, and quite like the weight but it may be heavier.
> *Shape:* would like something similar to the Mionix 5000, where i can have my ring and little finger on the side.
> *Braided:* had most succes with it so far its what i prefer.
> *Finish:* rubberized would be nice but its not necessary.
> *With driver:* or as long as i can tweak the DPI setting im happy.
> 
> looking forward to your response, thanks in advance.


Corsair Sabre Optical, the Mionix Naos 7000 would be better but costs more.


----------



## Klinkenator

Thanks for the quick reply, have thought about the Mionix naos 7000, but i'll take a look at the Corsair Sabre









Thanks for the help and have a nice day


----------



## ANXHaruhi

Finally my G300 is dying, so I'm searching a new mouse that will last and be comfortable. The G300 was a tad bit too small for my hand. If you can give me some pointers on what mices I do have around that have what I am looking for would be appreciated.

What's your grip style?
Palm grip, with a slightly bigger than average hand
What's your sensitivity?
Currently on 2000 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
Would want to spend at most 80 euros, but I can stretch it 20 euros more if it is really worth the extra cash
Do you want additional buttons?
If it has extra buttons great, I'll find an use for those, but I can live without them if needed. The only important ones that would need a good tradeoff for me to give them away would be the Forward/Back for web browsing
What games do you play?
A bit of everything, some FPS both PvP (CS:GO, sometimes Planetside 2) and PvE (Payday 2, Killing Floor), roguelites (Binding of Isaac, recently Enter the Gungeon). And whatever game ticles me in any particular moment of time. More PvE than PvP.
Do you mind about prediction?
I'd rather not have it, but if I do have to live with it I can tolerate it unless it is something extreme.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

I use the PC for studying too, so it has to be comfortable due to the amount of time I use it (no long texts to go through with the scrollwheel). It is my number 1 concern, to be ergonomic and comfortable. If possible I would like it to be wireless, but not 100% required (I will lean towards the wireless though). No problem with either using removable or non-removable batteries. If it does have onboard memory nice, if not, not a problem. Weight is not an issue for me either.

Have been checking mices and what I've seen that could be it for me would be the MX Master, the G602 and the G700 around 70 euros, but not sure which one to pick or if there is another good option from another manufacturer that I missed. The original plan was the Master, then I saw people saying that it was a bit bad for gaming. The G602 and G700 while looking quite comfortable, they don't seem to be as much as the Master would be, so I'm a bit torn between them. I did own a Sharkoon Drakonia at one point, and I liked the size of that mouse, and how I was able to leave my palm rest on it quite comfortably.
I don't think I'm leaving anything important out. Thanks for the help!


----------



## TburdzZ

Does anyone know a ebay seller or a place i can buy mass amounts of high quality intelimouse feet. Thanks


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TburdzZ*
> 
> Does anyone know a ebay seller or a place i can buy mass amounts of high quality intelimouse feet. Thanks


There's Hyperglides for the IME which are good, I'm using some Puretrak feet though.


----------



## munchzilla

http://www.esportstore.com/for-microsoft/hyperglide/ms-optical-11-explorer-30-3-pack

Best there is, but not sure if best store or best price.

Hyperglide themselves sell on hyperglide.net
and if you're in the US, TitanGear on Amazon has them (although a bit more expensive) too.


----------



## Takonic

thanks, but I did not end up with one. Just jumped the gun on a Logitech g303 few hours ago without demo'ing the unit..couldnt be more happier now that I've gotten to play with it for a few.


----------



## TurboJelly

I would appreciate any suggestions.

What's your grip style?
I guess finger, maybe something like mixture of palm and finger grip.
What's your sensitivity?
1000 DPI
What's your maximum budget?
80 EUR
Do you want additional buttons?
Nope, clickable mouse wheel, left, right and back, forward are all what I need.
What games do you play?
Not playing that much those days, but if I do I tend to waste my time on FPS and RTS.
Do you mind about prediction?
I prefer to not have prediction.
Other relevant information:
Just killed my DeathAdder and I am looking for new mouse. I prefer bigger mice like DA, MS IE 3.0. I want mouse which does not need any software or which has onboard memory (setup profiles, never use software from manufacturer again).


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ANXHaruhi*
> 
> I don't think I'm leaving anything important out. Thanks for the help!


G602 is the better gaming mouse if you are keen on wireless.

G900 is the best wireless one right now (better than many wired) but... price tag


----------



## ANXHaruhi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> G602 is the better gaming mouse if you are keen on wireless.
> 
> G900 is the best wireless one right now (better than many wired) but... price tag


Yeah no way in earth I'm throwing that amount cash on it. I know it does seem to be the best mice that money can buy today, but it is still not worth the double price point. Thing with wireless is the way I do have my desktop now, where I do move the mouse around depending on what I'm currently doing. Sometimes on the keyboard tray, sometimes on top of the desk. Until this morning that I've realized that I can just use a small USB hub with 2 extension usb cords, tape them to convenient locations and plug/unplug whenever I want to change the position. Sometimes I wonder how I still carry my head over my shoulders







. For wired I guess the G502 would be the one to pick in case of wired mouse (unless I am missing something from other manufacturers), so what would be the tradeoffs, asides the wireless?


----------



## TurboJelly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TurboJelly*
> 
> I would appreciate any suggestions.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I guess finger, maybe something like mixture of palm and finger grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1000 DPI
> What's your maximum budget?
> 80 EUR
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Nope, clickable mouse wheel, left, right and back, forward are all what I need.
> What games do you play?
> Not playing that much those days, but if I do I tend to waste my time on FPS and RTS.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I prefer to not have prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> Just killed my DeathAdder and I am looking for new mouse. I prefer bigger mice like DA, MS IE 3.0. I want mouse which does not need any software or which has onboard memory (setup profiles, never use software from manufacturer again).


Already bought G502 . Luckily one thing "electro markets" in my town are stocked on are mice, so I had chance to comapre G303, Rival, DA Chroma, G502, G602 and few other decent mice. G502 seemed like best fit (DA being very close 2nd, but I am changing from DA, so I didn't want to buy another one, 3rd probably Rival 300). G303 seemed super weird.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ANXHaruhi*
> 
> Yeah no way in earth I'm throwing that amount cash on it. I know it does seem to be the best mice that money can buy today, but it is still not worth the double price point. Thing with wireless is the way I do have my desktop now, where I do move the mouse around depending on what I'm currently doing. Sometimes on the keyboard tray, sometimes on top of the desk. Until this morning that I've realized that I can just use a small USB hub with 2 extension usb cords, tape them to convenient locations and plug/unplug whenever I want to change the position. Sometimes I wonder how I still carry my head over my shoulders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . For wired I guess the G502 would be the one to pick in case of wired mouse (unless I am missing something from other manufacturers), so what would be the tradeoffs, asides the wireless?


added latency is the biggest issue really. you will get noticeably lesser performance, but it's not *bad* if you aren't super picky.







works fine for non competitive FPS games I'd say.

second thing would be horizontal scrolling, G602 does not have this. G502 does.
and I'm not sure but buttons and scroll wheel quality might be a little bit better on G502, but I can't confirm since I haven't used G602 in quite a while now, whereas I have the G502 right here.

the rest is probably just preference, like sensor position and grip etc. assuming the sensor position isn't awfully off-centered which it doesn't appear to be.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

_Just posting this again since it's not letting me edit the comments I've been linking to._

****Recommendation summary****

There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary from other's. Here's my experience (full reviews here):

For competitive FPS gaming, currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all gaming mice released in the past decade have some kind of smoothing delay inaccurate, floaty, smoothed out feeling of cursor movement most noticeable in competitive FPS games like CS. The MLT04 sensor (Intellimouse 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is one of the only ones I've used that does not have this issue (

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/3h9joe/mice_keyboards_gaming/cu5gjfw
). So MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. See below for pros & cons.

KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor can perform on the same level if you get a good one, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.

The FinalMouse might be the best for FPS games if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. The firmware update improves the tracking inconsistency & fixes the CPI issue. They're releasing a Summer Edition (2015) which is supposed to have fixed the inconsistency/quality control issues. The SE further improved the tracking, but it's still not flawless. I think it's due to shoddy manufacturing quality.

The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best (close to on-par with the FM SE now) sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of "smoothing" on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no "smoothing" on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.

****MLT04 Pros & Cons****

New/recent mice pros & cons:
1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
2. Higher and adjustable DPI
3. Native 500-1000hz
4. They almost all have some kind of inaccurate, floaty, smoothed out feeling of cursor movement that makes the mouse feel imprecise.

MLT04 pros & cons:
1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS (and other) games.
2. Only 400 DPI
3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is high enough for most people but lower than newer mice.
4. The weight is higher than many of us would like.
5. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 & 10 currently, unless it comes with your motherboard (fatality z87 killer). ESEA _(& H1Z1's anticheat, & maybe others)_ blocks test mode but hidusbf was just (2016) updated (signed) to work on win8 & 10 without test mode: Link 1, Link 2 Link 3.

If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as which mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. See above.


----------



## qsxcv

for me, the biggest con of mlt04 is the limited selection of shapes.
though for most people, those few shapes are better than 90% of shapes out there


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for me, the biggest con of mlt04 is the limited selection of shapes.
> though for most people, those few shapes are better than 90% of shapes out there


They were made at a time when Microsoft Corp actually listened and developed REAL input devices for normal people to use.

That has long ago, disappeared into the myth of history as now all manufacturers are making Star Wars based mice for tweenies to enjoy.


----------



## jetplane48

What's your grip style?
*I love to claw my mouses*
What's your sensitivity?
*Currently using a Logitech g500 on ~2000 dpi*
What's your maximum budget?
*$70*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Only necessary additional buttons I would require are forward/backward buttons for web browsing*
What games do you play?
*literally the full spectrum of games*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Never tried it, it sounds buggy*
Other relevant information:
*I am currently looking to the new G500S that logitech came out with but if there is a cheaper and cooler alternative, please send that my way







*
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## ANXHaruhi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> added latency is the biggest issue really. you will get noticeably lesser performance, but it's not *bad* if you aren't super picky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> works fine for non competitive FPS games I'd say.
> 
> second thing would be horizontal scrolling, G602 does not have this. G502 does.
> and I'm not sure but buttons and scroll wheel quality might be a little bit better on G502, but I can't confirm since I haven't used G602 in quite a while now, whereas I have the G502 right here.
> 
> the rest is probably just preference, like sensor position and grip etc. assuming the sensor position isn't awfully off-centered which it doesn't appear to be.


Not super picky, but knowing my luck I will probably notice it on something really minor and will drive me nuts in the same way a dead pixel drives anyone when discovered. G502 for me then







. And fortunately Logitech made it RGB for the same price, so no blue nonsense. I guess the upgrade to wireless will be when the G900 tech goes down in price to the non-stupid-expensive bracket. Now to keep saving cash for a proper NAS (that is going to hurt). Thanks for the help!


----------



## kackbratze

I am looking for a mouse like the G100S but with sidebuttons & 1000hz.

Which of the following comes closest to the shape of the G100S:
- Rival 100
- ZA13
- FK2

Open to other suggestions as well.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> I am looking for a mouse like the G100S but with sidebuttons & 1000hz.
> 
> Which of the following comes closest to the shape of the G100S:
> - Rival 100
> - ZA13
> - FK2
> 
> Open to other suggestions as well.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


EVGA X5? I'm not sure if it has any issues but shape is nice and sensor choice is good.
there's a few threads on here for it if you'd like to read more about it.

ASUS ROG Sica is another one with similar shape...

do these have sidebuttons? I forgot. sorry








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ANXHaruhi*
> 
> Not super picky, but knowing my luck I will probably notice it on something really minor and will drive me nuts in the same way a dead pixel drives anyone when discovered. G502 for me then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And fortunately Logitech made it RGB for the same price, so no blue nonsense. I guess the upgrade to wireless will be when the G900 tech goes down in price to the non-stupid-expensive bracket. Now to keep saving cash for a proper NAS (that is going to hurt). Thanks for the help!










I think you will be happy, but the scroll wheel could use a mod if you feel brave... it's very heavy and hard, since it's all metal.
only real issue with the G502 for me personally, aside from not being a huge fan of the shape on the top right side.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetplane48*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *I love to claw my mouses*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *Currently using a Logitech g500 on ~2000 dpi*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$70*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Only necessary additional buttons I would require are forward/backward buttons for web browsing*
> What games do you play?
> *literally the full spectrum of games*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Never tried it, it sounds buggy*
> Other relevant information:
> *I am currently looking to the new G500S that logitech came out with but if there is a cheaper and cooler alternative, please send that my way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


G402? It's not as wide as G500 but... it's available.
G502 also but that might be the one you meant? it's better than G500/G500S. just be aware of the metal scroll wheel.
Logitechs mice are really good performers nowadays, the optical series.


----------



## ANXHaruhi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> EVGA X5? I'm not sure if it has any issues but shape is nice and sensor choice is good.
> there's a few threads on here for it if you'd like to read more about it.
> 
> ASUS ROG Sica is another one with similar shape...
> 
> do these have sidebuttons? I forgot. sorry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you will be happy, but the scroll wheel could use a mod if you feel brave... it's very heavy and hard, since it's all metal.
> only real issue with the G502 for me personally, aside from not being a huge fan of the shape on the top right side.
> G402? It's not as wide as G500 but... it's available.
> G502 also but that might be the one you meant? it's better than G500/G500S. just be aware of the metal scroll wheel.
> Logitechs mice are really good performers nowadays, the optical series.


Received it today (yay for same day shipping!) Actually fits like a glove. I knew the upgrade was going to be good, but holy bananas this is beyond expectations. And believe it or not, I actually really like the wheel, don't feel it neither heavy nor hard. I'd even say that it is slightly light. But again, I've always been used to the extra force required, so I'm comfortable. I use MX clears because brows are too light, and all the weights included with the mouse for some perspective. And the free scroll wheel is more useful than I though. My only small "complaint" would be that I would like it to be more simple in design, I'm tired of all this "gamer" theme. At least it is not the worst, and something I can live with.


----------



## Transmaniacon

_What's your grip style?_

I use a claw grip

_What's your sensitivity?_

Not sure to be honest, currently have a Razor Deathadder, so whatever the stock sensitivity is.

_What's your maximum budget?_

$50-100

_Do you want additional buttons?_

Maybe a couple side buttons, but I don't really use them.

_What games do you play?_

All sorts, FPS, RPG, Action & Adventure.

_Do you mind about prediction?_

Not sure what this is.

_Other relevant information:_

I am currently looking for something white, that is similar to my Deathadder. I don't play competitive FPS and need the absolute best, but just something comparable in feel and quality would be nice. My cord is frayed and I am getting tired of the black plastic look. Any recommendations would be appreciated!


----------



## Amaterasu

What's your grip style?
Claw grip

What's your sensitivity?
While I played with Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A - I was using:

400 DPI (or 450 depends on which version)
5/11 Windows sensitivity
2.75 in-game with m_rawinput 1 (CS:GO)

What's your maximum budget?
~60 euros

Do you want additional buttons?
I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.

What games do you play?
CS:GO

Do you mind about prediction?
No acceleration of course and no prediction...

Other relevant information:
I want to upgrade from Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A because I can't start some programs and play some games due to Test mode and DSeO.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amaterasu*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw grip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> While I played with Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A - I was using:
> 
> 400 DPI (or 450 depends on which version)
> 5/11 Windows sensitivity
> 2.75 in-game with m_rawinput 1 (CS:GO)
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~60 euros
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I would like to have 2 buttons on the left side of the mouse.
> 
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No acceleration of course and no prediction...
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I want to upgrade from Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A because I can't start some programs and play some games due to Test mode and DSeO.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1597441/digitally-signed-sweetlow-1000hz-mouse-driver
?


----------



## memske

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI @ Default windows (6)
What's your maximum budget? Don't have one.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, M4/M5. Other than that don't care.
What games do you play? MMO/MOBA/FPS All sorts, but those 3 mainly. ;p
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, but not overly. Doesn't need to be 0.
Current mouse is a Mionix Avior 7000. Was decently happily with it but middle mouse button is failing.


----------



## ljubinko

What's your grip style? something between palm and claw i thing is called Claw Paw, i hold my mouse like this

What's your sensitivity? 400dpi sensitivity 2
What's your maximum budget? 80 euro
What games do you play? csgo and other fps
Do you mind about prediction? i prefer no prediction
Other relevant information: for present mouse i own mx518, ime 3.0, deathadder 1800dpi 3g i need to know for what mouse my grip style is best, i posted picture how i hold mouse above. My hands is lenght 19cm if that helps.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> _Just posting this again since it's not letting me edit the comments I've been linking to._
> 
> ****Recommendation summary****
> 
> There seems to be some variance in sensor performance among the same brand and model of mice. So one person's experience can vary from other's. Here's my experience (full reviews here):
> 
> For competitive FPS gaming, currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all gaming mice released in the past decade have some kind of smoothing delay inaccurate, floaty, smoothed out feeling of cursor movement most noticeable in competitive FPS games like CS. The MLT04 sensor (Intellimouse 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is one of the only ones I've used that does not have this issue (
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/3h9joe/mice_keyboards_gaming/cu5gjfw
> ). So MLT04 (I.E. 3.0, 1.1, WMO) is #1 for FPS. See below for pros & cons.
> 
> KPM is good if you don't mind the shape or size. The aurora's sensor can perform on the same level if you get a good one, but the build quality is lower, the weight is lower, weight balance is better, the shape is arguably significantly better, but it lacks the native 50cpi increments the KPM has.
> 
> The FinalMouse might be the best for FPS games if you get a good one (fairly inconsistent performance from mouse to mouse, & many reports of tracking issues). But the price is higher and it doesn't have the features that other mice have because it has no drivers. The firmware update improves the tracking inconsistency & fixes the CPI issue. They're releasing a Summer Edition (2015) which is supposed to have fixed the inconsistency/quality control issues. The SE further improved the tracking, but it's still not flawless. I think it's due to shoddy manufacturing quality.
> 
> The Deathadder 2013 has the 2nd best (close to on-par with the FM SE now) sensor I've used (behind the MLT04), but the weight & shape isn't good for fingertip grip for non-FPS games. The protrusion of the front right lip out to the side makes the mouse unusable for me in palm grip. The mouse is tailored to a specific hand size only, so if you fall out of that range it becomes unusable. Some people report large amounts of "smoothing" on this mouse that may or may not be caused by the drivers. But I didn't install the drivers and have no "smoothing" on it. It could have also been a firmware update that fixed the issues.
> 
> ****MLT04 Pros & Cons****
> 
> New/recent mice pros & cons:
> 1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
> 2. Higher and adjustable DPI
> 3. Native 500-1000hz
> 4. They almost all have some kind of inaccurate, floaty, smoothed out feeling of cursor movement that makes the mouse feel imprecise.
> 
> MLT04 pros & cons:
> 1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS (and other) games.
> 2. Only 400 DPI
> 3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is high enough for most people but lower than newer mice.
> 4. The weight is higher than many of us would like.
> 5. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 & 10 currently, unless it comes with your motherboard (fatality z87 killer). ESEA blocks test mode but hidusbf was just (2016) updated (signed) to work on win8 & 10 without test mode: Link 1, Link 2 Link 3.
> 
> If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as which mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. See above.


ESEA is not the only application that doesn't allow test mode. H1Z1's anticheat won't let you even launch the game with test mode enabled. That is the only reason I stopped using my IME 3.0 Legends edition. I had it overclocked to 8000hz and it was amazing. I swear I could tell the difference between 1000 and 8000 but it might have just been some brain trickery.


----------



## TrueForm

I've been using the Logitech G9/G9X for 8 years now. Such a good mouse. It's a shame they don't make them anymore.

Anyone here use the G502?


----------



## 298703

What's your grip style?
Claw
What's your sensitivity?
1200DPI,
What's your maximum budget?
£150
Do you want additional buttons?
2 side minimum
What games do you play?
Pretty much everything, LoL, CS etc.
Do you mind about prediction? Absolutely no acceleration/prediction etc.
Other relevant information:
Wireless mouse. Been using a Razer Imperator for years, I love the shape of the mouse so much, but ofc the reliability is crap. 3rd Imperator now and it's time to move on. Been looking at wireless mice and the G900 seems to be the best on the market atm. Thinking of this, but any other suggestions are welcome. Must be comfortable with a claw grip.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrueForm*
> 
> I've been using the Logitech G9/G9X for 8 years now. Such a good mouse. It's a shame they don't make them anymore.
> 
> Anyone here use the G502?


plenty of users here - got any more specific questions?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WuMyster*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1200DPI,
> What's your maximum budget?
> £150
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 2 side minimum
> What games do you play?
> Pretty much everything, LoL, CS etc.
> Do you mind about prediction? Absolutely no acceleration/prediction etc.
> Other relevant information:
> Wireless mouse. Been using a Razer Imperator for years, I love the shape of the mouse so much, but ofc the reliability is crap. 3rd Imperator now and it's time to move on. Been looking at wireless mice and the G900 seems to be the best on the market atm. Thinking of this, but any other suggestions are welcome. Must be comfortable with a claw grip.


pretty much G900 is your best bet. amazing mouse.


----------



## 298703

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> plenty of users here - got any more specific questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pretty much G900 is your best bet. amazing mouse.


Ok thanks, was pretty set but just a bit worried that the mouse my be too long for me. 20cm hands and from their spec sheet, seems like my claw grip won't be anywhere near the end of the mouse.


----------



## Gyrael

What's your grip style?
Palm with a little bit of claw

What's your sensitivity?
1600 DPI @ 7/11 Windows

What's your maximum budget?
70$

Do you want additional buttons?
Just the back/forward side buttons. Maybe DPI switches.

What games do you play?
I use my mouse for FPS/MOBA/MMOs.

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes.

Other information: I have a Mionix NAOS 8200 and I have been really happy with it until the middle click stopped working properly for no reason. I'm looking for a relatively simple, practical, perfect sensor, preferably driverless mouse that is as durable as possible. I'm really sick of spending big bucks on fancy electronics only to have them malfunction arbitrarily (something I also suffered with my Dualshock 4 controller). I initially thought I ought to get a NAOS 7000 but I heard it still tends to have middle click issues. Previously I had a MX518 which still worked perfectly (and still does, gave it to a friend), although through the years I've heard complaints about Logitech mice having double click issues, so maybe they don't make them like they used to? I was looking at the G502 although it has way more buttons and features than I need. I was looking at the Zowie EC2-A although I don't know anything about their durability.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WuMyster*
> 
> Ok thanks, was pretty set but just a bit worried that the mouse my be too long for me. 20cm hands and from their spec sheet, seems like my claw grip won't be anywhere near the end of the mouse.


well, you can press buttons pretty far back and still work well, due to having separate button design. so I think it will work well with claw (it did for me, and I have 21.5cm hands)


----------



## mwan

1. I use a palm grip
2. my sensitivity is 500 dpi
3. I don't really have a max budget, I buy my mice used on ebay for <1/2 the price
4. two side buttons but its not important
5. I play CS almost exclusively, with some other fps games mixed in
6. No acceleration or prediction
7. No laser sensors, no wireless, quality construction, and nice looking (not a priority). I've been looking at the G402 and steelseries rival but am open to any brand/model


----------



## ruival

Can somebody tell me why optical sensor even matters if you only care about 800/1000 DPI? Because I noticed low end sensors like A3050 in some cases get about the same or higher malfunction speeds than A3090/3310, but in terms of responsiveness and jitter at low DPI, is there even a noticeable difference between low end and high end if you dont reach more than 3 m/s during game? (excluding crappy Pixart 3305 that sensor has serious bugs and only 2 m/s)

I am looking for a comfortable palm grip (slightly clawed fingers) mice for small hands (17 cm), either ambidex or right handed for low sensitivity 60 cm / 360º
I found that for palm, having the height apex as close to the middle as possible, and the hump as flat as possible (making the front as high as possible too) is the ideal for me. Also seems like most mice are too thin and that makes my thumb stressed (manufacturers insist on exaggerated concave left side thumbgrips for some reason)

Also having crisp easy to spam buttons is a must, I liked the shape of Zowie FK2 and EC2-A but the buttons were 100% unacceptable for such an overpriced mouse

These are the mice available to me under 45€, I would like some opinions on them:

15€ Cougar 200M
16€ CM Xornet (seems like shape is terrible for any grip?)
20€ A4tech V3/V4/V5 (what about that Infra red switches version?)
20€ Speedlink Ledos
20€ Cougar 230M
20€ Newmen GX1 Plus
20€ Corsair Raptor M30
28€ Zalmann ZM-600R
28€ Logitech G100s
30€ SS Rival 100 (Glossy version)
30€ Roccat Lua
30€ CM Alcor
38€ Razer Abyssus 2014
40€ SS Kana v2 White
42€ Logitech G302
43€ ASUS ROG Sica
43€ Roccat Kone Pure Military (Desert Strike)

I already tested some of these and already made a choice, but would still like to test something different since I cant test them all


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ruival*
> 
> Can somebody tell me why optical sensor even matters if you only care about 800/1000 DPI? Because I noticed low end sensors like A3050 in some cases get about the same or higher malfunction speeds than A3090/3310, but in terms of responsiveness and jitter at low DPI, is there even a noticeable difference between low end and high end if you dont reach more than 3 m/s during game? (excluding crappy Pixart 3305 that sensor has serious bugs and only 2 m/s)
> 
> I am looking for a comfortable palm grip (slightly clawed fingers) mice for small hands (17 cm), either ambidex or right handed for low sensitivity 60 cm / 360º
> I found that for palm, having the height apex as close to the middle as possible, and the hump as flat as possible (making the front as high as possible too) is the ideal for me. Also seems like most mice are too thin and that makes my thumb stressed (manufacturers insist on exaggerated concave left side thumbgrips for some reason)
> 
> Also having crisp easy to spam buttons is a must, I liked the shape of Zowie FK2 and EC2-A but the buttons were 100% unacceptable for such an overpriced mouse
> 
> These are the mice available to me under 45€, I would like some opinions on them:
> 
> 15€ Cougar 200M
> 16€ CM Xornet (seems like shape is terrible for any grip?)
> 20€ A4tech V3/V4/V5 (what about that Infra red switches version?)
> 20€ Speedlink Ledos
> 20€ Cougar 230M
> 20€ Newmen GX1 Plus
> 20€ Corsair Raptor M30
> 28€ Zalmann ZM-600R
> 28€ Logitech G100s
> 30€ SS Rival 100 (Glossy version)
> 30€ Roccat Lua
> 30€ CM Alcor
> 38€ Razer Abyssus 2014
> 40€ SS Kana v2 White
> 42€ Logitech G302
> 43€ ASUS ROG Sica
> 43€ Roccat Kone Pure Military (Desert Strike)
> 
> I already tested some of these and already made a choice, but would still like to test something different since I cant test them all


low sensitivity, or rather fast physical movement is where having a good optical sensor is the most important.
most common laser sensor, A9500 and A9800, get acceleration-like cursor movement on high speed flicks.

you'd be doing well with Roccat KPM out of those, since it can do really fast speeds very well.
unfortunately more expensive than your other options, but for sensor and spammability, it'll be good.









G302 has the best buttons but I could easily hit max malfunction speed with it, and it's also pretty weird shaped.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

If you like the shape roccat kpm is a steal for the price.


----------



## zwacki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 5. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 & 10 currently, unless it comes with your motherboard (fatality z87 killer). ESEA _(& H1Z1's anticheat, & maybe others)_ blocks test mode but hidusbf was just (2016) updated (signed) to work on win8 & 10 without test mode: Link 1, Link 2 Link 3.


any problems on ESEA with these drivers, the installation seems quite simple, one click on a button and your mouse runs on 500hz, at least mine did









EDIT
No Problems on ESEA, EZ PZ


----------



## turbotortoise

Hi guys,

I was hoping someone could help me choose a hard mousepad. I'm looking for something smooth, I suppose a fast glide, but also something with that will provide "stability" or control when making smaller movements. Something like the Razer Destructor or the Steelseries S&S. I've looked at the offerings from Corsair and Logitech, but I'm unsure how they would perform, or if any other brands offered similar products. At this moment the Destructor 2 seems appealing, or perhaps even the Manticor, but I really don't wish to spend more than 40$ before tax.

Thank you!


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turbotortoise*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I was hoping someone could help me choose a hard mousepad. I'm looking for something smooth, I suppose a fast glide, but also something with that will provide "stability" or control when making smaller movements. Something like the Razer Destructor or the Steelseries S&S. I've looked at the offerings from Corsair and Logitech, but I'm unsure how they would perform, or if any other brands offered similar products. At this moment the Destructor 2 seems appealing, or perhaps even the Manticor, but I really don't wish to spend more than 40$ before tax.
> 
> Thank you!


http://shop.fnatic.com/products/fnatic-gear-boost-speed-mousepad

rebranded fUnc surface, super good for making precise small adjustments. more similar to a brand new S&S than any other pad I've tried. similar rough texture.

good durability for hard pads as well.


----------



## Bucake

durability was very underwhelming. who knows, maybe i got a "bad one".
they claim it's high quality poly carbonate (wow!1), but the coating (on mine) is terrible and went bad within just a few months. i really can't say the durability is any better than the average hard pad out there.

in terms of durability, the Alugraphics pad is the best i've seen, but it's very expensive and only ships from germany afaik.
some sensors have trouble tracking on it, but of course the same is true for plastic hard pads.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> durability was very underwhelming. who knows, maybe i got a "bad one".
> they claim it's high quality poly carbonate (wow!1), but the coating (on mine) is terrible and went bad within just a few months. i really can't say the durability is any better than the average hard pad out there.
> 
> in terms of durability, the Alugraphics pad is the best i've seen, but it's very expensive and only ships from germany afaik.
> some sensors have trouble tracking on it, but of course the same is true for plastic hard pads.


did you have the rough or smooth one?
my rough fUnc f30r is still like-new, 2 years of use. still great static friction. no coating on it...? not sure if same pad?
the smooth one lasted me a month, so that one I can't recommend at all


----------



## Bucake

yeah, i have the smooth F-series 10, the thin pad with a surface similar to the smooth side of the 1030. if you'd put some alcohol on the surface, you can smell the coating







polycarbonate doesn't have a reaction with alcohol so i presume it could only be some kind of coating.
i figured the Boost would be similar to the 10, but maybe it's similar to the 30 then..


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yeah, i have the smooth F-series 10, the thin pad with a surface similar to the smooth side of the 1030. if you'd put some alcohol on the surface, you can smell the coating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> polycarbonate doesn't have a reaction with alcohol so i presume it could only be some kind of coating.
> i figured the Boost would be similar to the 10, but maybe it's similar to the 30 then..


ahh nono, the Boost comes in SPEED and CONTROL. Speed is the rough one.

rough is so much better in every way.


----------



## Bucake

thanks for rubbing it in









but thanks for clearing that up. i just might get one since i liked the Steelseries 4HD and the Qpad HeatoN, which are both way rougher than the F-series 10.


----------



## turbotortoise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> http://shop.fnatic.com/products/fnatic-gear-boost-speed-mousepad
> 
> rebranded fUnc surface, super good for making precise small adjustments. more similar to a brand new S&S than any other pad I've tried. similar rough texture.
> 
> good durability for hard pads as well.


And of course it seems as though they have JUST discontinued it... For me the link 404s today, yesterday it was out of stock. Can't seem to find a QPAD Heaton anywhere either... I hate how it seems hard pads are going the way of the dinosaurs.

Has anyone else any suggestions for a rough hard pad? I'm currently using the Shiden-Kai. The glide is immaculate, but mice just don't stop well enough and small movements are muddled. The pad also has issues with tracking fast movements which is more than frustrating .


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turbotortoise*
> 
> And of course it seems as though they have JUST discontinued it... For me the link 404s today, yesterday it was out of stock. Can't seem to find a QPAD Heaton anywhere either... I hate how it seems hard pads are going the way of the dinosaurs.
> 
> Has anyone else any suggestions for a rough hard pad? I'm currently using the Shiden-Kai. The glide is immaculate, but mice just don't stop well enough and small movements are muddled. The pad also has issues with tracking fast movements which is more than frustrating .


Maybe been replaced with the new JW hard pad?


----------



## Bucake

qpad heaton has been discontinued for years.
i'm hoping that that JW pad is the same, it does look similar in shape and texture as the qpad heaton. but i e-mailed them about it and got no reply, so i dunno.


----------



## turbotortoise

Is it being developed at the moment? I can't find anything regarding the pad.

Regardless, I think I'm going to settle on the Corsair Vengeance MM400. From the one or two films people have posted, the glide _seems_ to be similar to a new destructor, which would be ideal for me I think.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> thanks for rubbing it in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but thanks for clearing that up. i just might get one since i liked the Steelseries 4HD and the Qpad HeatoN, which are both way rougher than the F-series 10.


aye, definitely good.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> qpad heaton has been discontinued for years.
> i'm hoping that that JW pad is the same, it does look similar in shape and texture as the qpad heaton. but i e-mailed them about it and got no reply, so i dunno.


yea I can't really find anything about the JW hard pad... got any links?

ty!


----------



## RentoN

Just wanted to ask if there is maybe a mouse that I don't know about that is really light (70g or less) and has a top notch sensor.
I'm currently switching back and forth between a FK2 and a G100s and the lower weight of the G100s (13g weight removed) really makes a difference to me, but at the same time the sensor performance of the FK2 feels noticeably better.
So I was wondering if there's maybe a mouse that combines both of those aspects?


----------



## ball2hi

*What's your grip style?*
_Hybrid - Fingertip + Claw + Palm_
Every mouse I've gotten my hands on, I try to palm grip but my hand always instinctively shapes into this claw-like grip that uses my thumb/pinky to move the mouse, with occasional palm resting on the mouse.

*What's your sensitivity?*
_13.6364in/360 - Source Engine (800 DPI + 1.5sens)_
I very actively change my DPI/sensitivity around. The highest I've used was 22in/360, and the lowest 8in/360.

*What's your maximum budget?*
_$150 - BestBuy Giftcard_

*Do you want additional buttons?*
_Yes_
I enjoy having the multitude of buttons, at least M4/M5 (browser back/forward, ect.)

*What games do you play?*
_Left4Dead 2, Natural Selection 2, Heroes of The Storm_
I play very active tracking games, rather than flickshot games.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
_Yes_
I want the perfect sensor. No prediction, jitter, ect.

*Other relevant information:*
I've used "palmy" mice forever. Deathadder 2013, G400, G402, G502. I would like to get something that might fit my weird grip, as well as being more lightweight than the G502. My hands have trouble holding certain mice if they don't have good friction on the top. I can already 



, but find my wrists getting "stiff" when I move too far from the center of my mousepad.

Was contemplating buying a 144hz monitor, but unfortunately BestBuy doesn't stock the monitor from Nixeus that I read about.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ball2hi*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> _Hybrid - Fingertip + Claw + Palm_
> Every mouse I've gotten my hands on, I try to palm grip but my hand always instinctively shapes into this claw-like grip that uses my thumb/pinky to move the mouse, with occasional palm resting on the mouse.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> _13.6364in/360 - Source Engine (800 DPI + 1.5sens)_
> I very actively change my DPI/sensitivity around. The highest I've used was 22in/360, and the lowest 8in/360.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> _$150 - BestBuy Giftcard_
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> _Yes_
> I enjoy having the multitude of buttons, at least M4/M5 (browser back/forward, ect.)
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> _Left4Dead 2, Natural Selection 2, Heroes of The Storm_
> I play very active tracking games, rather than flickshot games.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> _Yes_
> I want the perfect sensor. No prediction, jitter, ect.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> I've used "palmy" mice forever. Deathadder 2013, G400, G402, G502. I would like to get something that might fit my weird grip, as well as being more lightweight than the G502. My hands have trouble holding certain mice if they don't have good friction on the top. I can already
> 
> 
> 
> , but find my wrists getting "stiff" when I move too far from the center of my mousepad.
> 
> Was contemplating buying a 144hz monitor, but unfortunately BestBuy doesn't stock the monitor from Nixeus that I read about.


Let's see...hm, yes. Medium-ish sens. Desire a good sensor, undoubtedly understandable. Mhmm..lets see....lighter than G502, indeed. A gift card from Best Buy...in the of amount $150, intriguing. Um, I'll go ahead and...

*G900
9
0
0*


----------



## genchou

Hi !

I'm looking for a secondary mouse that I would use mainly with my laptop, for working. My criterias aren't very easy because I am looking for a blend between an "office" mouse (like the MX series from Logitech) and a gaming mouse.

Basically, I want the wireless, ergonomic form, sobriety and buttons from the typical MX mouse, with the dpi, lightness and precision from a gaming mouse. Something like you would have if the Steelseries Sensei had an illegitimate child with an MX Revolution.

I don't think such a mouse exists, but what are your ideas for a close contender ? I have been thinking about both the MX Master and the G700S, but the former looks too heavy/bulky and has an insufficient dpi while the later is just way too ugly with its "gamer" look. I'm also considering a trackball (like the Logitech M570), it doesn't exactly answer my needs but could offer a good alternative.


What's your grip style? *palm*
What's your sensitivity? *~3000 dpi usually*
What's your maximum budget? *I'd say 100€ max*
Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2 thumb buttons is the bare minimum*
What games do you play? *Any, not a lot of FPS though. This mouse wouldn't be much used for gaming anyway*
Do you mind about prediction? *I don't know, I'm not aware of having this with my previous mice (sensei raw, g500, mx revo) so I can't say*
Other relevant information:
*I look for a wireless mouse with a clean look (no gamer visual features), that has at least 3000 dpi and that is light. Also, one of my major dislike in mice is rubber coating. Keep in mind that the mouse will be used with Linux so I won't profit from any software features a driver package would bring on windows or macos.*
Thanks a lot !


----------



## munchzilla

if you didn't need 3000DPI (which is very high for most mice... tends to cause a bit of jittering) the Logitech G602 isn't half-bad. not the prettiest but good performance (kind of).

G900 is a bit out of budget but it's more like a Sensei in shape although bigger, and outperforms even the Sensei in Wireless mode.
ugly as sin however...


----------



## memske

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 800 DPI @ Default windows (6)
What's your maximum budget? Don't have one.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, M4/M5. Other than that don't care.
What games do you play? MMO/MOBA/FPS All sorts, but those 3 mainly. ;p
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, but not overly. Doesn't need to be 0.
Current mouse is a Mionix Avior 7000. Was decently happily with it but middle mouse button is failing.


----------



## genchou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> if you didn't need 3000DPI (which is very high for most mice... tends to cause a bit of jittering) the Logitech G602 isn't half-bad. not the prettiest but good performance (kind of).
> 
> G900 is a bit out of budget but it's more like a Sensei in shape although bigger, and outperforms even the Sensei in Wireless mode.
> ugly as sin however...


Yeah about the DPI, actually I don't really know what I need. I know that my sensei is set up on roughly 3000 on my desktop and that my mx revo feels waaay too slow on any computer. My g500 has its config saved in the internal memory and I don't remember the settings.

So usually, I like a speedy yet precise pointer and from my experience with the mx revo, I know that it's too slow for my taste, meaning the mx master wouldn't be ideal, imo.

The look is also a big factor for me. I'm not into the gamer visual design and anything going into those waters will be a no for me.


----------



## Agata

-


----------



## Curleyyy

*1.) Grip Style:*
Palm grip.

*2.) Sensitivity:*
1.3 // 450 DPI // 6-11 Windows // Mouse Fix // No Acceleration

71.04 cm = 360 ( http://i.imgur.com/Qsf8T0z.png )

*3.) Budget:*
Less than $100

*4.) Buttons:*
Mouse 1
Mouse 2
Scroll / Click
Mouse 3
Mouse 4

*5.) Games:*
CSGO / CSS / Warframe / Rust / Etc,.

*6.) Prediction / Snapping / Etc,.*
I don't want any of this.

*7.) Other information:*
I've used the Deathadder since 2011 and while I have no issues, I'm wondering if there's something that:
- Tracks better
- More accurately
- With lower LOD
- A higher negative acceleration swiping speed.
- Better more evenly distributed weight (Deathedder feels back heavy, I want it center weighted.
- Wired
- Cable kinks don't bother me
- Would prefer matte finish or finish with rubber, like Deathadder Black Edition
- I don't like using drivers to use mice
- Onboard memory is a plus so I can save my profiles of 1000hz 450dpi on every profile.
- Center weighted when you pick up in a relaxed palm grip.

*The mice on my mind are:*
-Deathadder
-MS 1.1a / 3.0
-Zowie EC2-A (I don't know anything about this mouse but people say the sensor is really good and the shape looks similar to a DA)


----------



## realistic01

Which ver deathadder are you using right now? there aren't too many sensors better than the deathadder 2013/chroma sensor. The weight distribution isn't great. You will have to install synapse to set DPI, but then you can uninstall it.

The EC2-a IMO has a less responsive sensor than the deathadder but the shape is better and weight is better distributed. No drivers/software etc required. Low weight. Worse clicks, particularly side buttons, but M2 feels off as well.

The MLT04 mice are possibly the only ones that feel more raw and responsive than the deathadder. You can increase the polling rate but the PCS remains quite low. Depends who you ask, but I still think the MLT04 is the king of sensors. WMO 1.1 has a great shape, and is incredibly light, but no side buttons. IE 3.0 is heavier, but also has a great ergonomic shape. Greater mouse click delay. Issues with accidental clicks, and scroll wheel.

If you like the size/shape of the deathadder, stick with it and get a 2013 or chroma.

Alternatively, consider forking out a little for a WMO or IE 3.0 (or find a used one to try for cheap), and if you don't like it go for the ec2-a.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> *1.) Grip Style:*
> Palm grip.
> 
> *2.) Sensitivity:*
> 1.3 // 450 DPI // 6-11 Windows // Mouse Fix // No Acceleration
> 
> 71.04 cm = 360 ( http://i.imgur.com/Qsf8T0z.png )
> 
> *3.) Budget:*
> Less than $100
> 
> *4.) Buttons:*
> Mouse 1
> Mouse 2
> Scroll / Click
> Mouse 3
> Mouse 4
> 
> *5.) Games:*
> CSGO / CSS / Warframe / Rust / Etc,.
> 
> *6.) Prediction / Snapping / Etc,.*
> I don't want any of this.
> 
> *7.) Other information:*
> I've used the Deathadder since 2011 and while I have no issues, I'm wondering if there's something that:
> - Tracks better
> - More accurately
> - With lower LOD
> - A higher negative acceleration swiping speed.
> - Better more evenly distributed weight (Deathedder feels back heavy, I want it center weighted.
> - Wired
> - Cable kinks don't bother me
> - Would prefer matte finish or finish with rubber, like Deathadder Black Edition
> - I don't like using drivers to use mice
> - Onboard memory is a plus so I can save my profiles of 1000hz 450dpi on every profile.
> - Center weighted when you pick up in a relaxed palm grip.
> 
> *The mice on my mind are:*
> -Deathadder
> -MS 1.1a / 3.0
> -Zowie EC2-A (I don't know anything about this mouse but people say the sensor is really good and the shape looks similar to a DA)


Damn, that sens is even lower than mine ^^
Zowie EC2-a should be a good purchase, its smaller than DA though. EC1-a should be more similar to DA if you like that size.


----------



## Gyrael

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gyrael*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm with a little bit of claw
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1600 DPI @ 7/11 Windows
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 70$
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Just the back/forward side buttons. Maybe DPI switches.
> 
> What games do you play?
> I use my mouse for FPS/MOBA/MMOs.
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes.
> 
> Other information: I have a Mionix NAOS 8200 and I have been really happy with it until the middle click stopped working properly for no reason. I'm looking for a relatively simple, practical, perfect sensor, preferably driverless mouse that is as durable as possible. I'm really sick of spending big bucks on fancy electronics only to have them malfunction arbitrarily (something I also suffered with my Dualshock 4 controller). I initially thought I ought to get a NAOS 7000 but I heard it still tends to have middle click issues. Previously I had a MX518 which still worked perfectly (and still does, gave it to a friend), although through the years I've heard complaints about Logitech mice having double click issues, so maybe they don't make them like they used to? I was looking at the G502 although it has way more buttons and features than I need. I was looking at the Zowie EC2-A although I don't know anything about their durability.


Anyone? : (


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gyrael*
> 
> Anyone? : (


Have you looked at the G303? Palm/Claw is right up the correct path for that mouse. You are getting great buttons all around, solid scroll(to me). The sensor speaks for itself as well, mouse 1 & 2 are just on point. If your hand has no issues, or you can adjust, then you will be settled on a mouse that will be solid for a while.

Edit: To top it off it is sitting at a price that is hard to beat for what you get.


----------



## Gyrael

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Have you looked at the G303? Palm/Claw is right up the correct path for that mouse. You are getting great buttons all around, solid scroll(to me). The sensor speaks for itself as well, mouse 1 & 2 are just on point. If your hand has no issues, or you can adjust, then you will be settled on a mouse that will be solid for a while.
> 
> Edit: To top it off it is sitting at a price that is hard to beat for what you get.


Thanks for the reply.

I hadn't considered it. It does look like a solid option, if it's truly durable. The only thing that makes me unsure is that it doesn't look like it offers any support for the ring and pinky fingers.


----------



## Travieso

Hi everyone,

Recently i just bought CM Spawn from pc accessories shop near my house and it's the last one in stock.

when i got home, i found its rubber coating already deteriorates and starts to peel off. this maybe because they kept it in stock for too long.

What mouse that has the same feeling as CM Spawn do you guys recommend, since i have to RMA it ?

thank you


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gyrael*
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I hadn't considered it. It does look like a solid option, if it's truly durable. The only thing that makes me unsure is that it doesn't look like it offers any support for the ring and pinky fingers.


Definitely take a look.

If you are in the US, best buy had them on display. If you claw or palm claw pinky & ring support should be absolutely fine, i found it to be no problem whatsoever.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Travieso*
> 
> What mouse that has the same feeling as CM Spawn do you guys recommend, since i have to RMA it ?
> 
> thank you


Have you heard of CoolerMaster's latest model the Xornet 2?

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Optical-Lighting-SGM-2002-KLON1/dp/B017M4FT34

and here;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826570026

Very cheap price and you could easily RMA it if it breaks hence give it a go







.


----------



## m0uz

I can vouch for the Xornet II. Great wee mouse for a great price. I had problems with the middle click working intermittently but it can be swapped for a more durable Huano, Omron or whatever 3-pin switch without a huge amount of bother. However, R.I.P warranty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Just swapped the middle switch out for a Huano Red and it works perfectly. There's some very minor modding you need to do to close the shell but that's it. Here's some pics.
> 
> Edit: You need to break off the 3rd pin on the switch, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Before
> 
> Yes, I used nail clippers to do it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Any reason for a "veteren" CM Storm Spawn user to pick up the Xornet II? Love the Spawn, still works and looks great, just thinking maybe the Xornet II might be worth a shot as well.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> Any reason for a "veteren" CM Storm Spawn user to pick up the Xornet II? Love the Spawn, still works and looks great, just thinking maybe the Xornet II might be worth a shot as well.


Don't see why not. Very cheap. Same shape as the Spawn. About 10 grams lighter. Malfunction speed is lower but that "problem" is heavily dependant on your sensitivity and what games you play. I'd say pick one up. No harm in having a backup.

Really would like to see a Spawn II, though


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Don't see why not. Very cheap. Same shape as the Spawn. About 10 grams lighter. Malfunction speed is lower but that "problem" is heavily dependant on your sensitivity and what games you play. I'd say pick one up. No harm in having a backup.
> 
> Really would like to see a Spawn II, though


Yeah, I keep forgetting that the Xornet II was even released...I'd probably have one already if this Spawn didn't still look new. And I don't believe I would be affected by the lower malfunction speed, I think the lowest dpi setting on the Spawn, with the firmware I use at least, is 800 dpi. Which is double compared to what I was used to before this mouse, I just liked the shape so much and I eventually adapted to where I am now used to 800 dpi and going back to 400 would be bothersome. So I always use 800 dpi currently, but I also usually have the sense really low with the in game settings, sometimes as low as it can go, depending on the game...I never hit malfunction speed with my Storm at these settings...figure I'll still be OK on with the Xornet? I don't know much about malfunction speed or what I would need, I've always just bought the mouse that felt best with a decent sensor and learned to adapt by staying on the same mouse for as many years as possible. I used a Logitech G5 for about 7-8 years or so, then I think I have been on this Spawn now for 3+. If I don't like a mouse, I will usually just ditch it right away and keep buying mice until I find one I like and would't mind using for next few years.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> Yeah, I keep forgetting that the Xornet II was even released...I'd probably have one already if this Spawn didn't still look new. And I don't believe I would be affected by the lower malfunction speed, I think the lowest dpi setting on the Spawn, with the firmware I use at least, is 800 dpi. Which is double compared to what I was used to before this mouse, I just liked the shape so much and I eventually adapted to where I am now used to 800 dpi and going back to 400 would be bothersome. So I always use 800 dpi currently, but I also usually have the sense really low with the in game settings, sometimes as low as it can go, depending on the game...I never hit malfunction speed with my Storm at these settings...figure I'll still be OK on with the Xornet? I don't know much about malfunction speed or what I would need, I've always just bought the mouse that felt best with a decent sensor and learned to adapt by staying on the same mouse for as many years as possible. I used a Logitech G5 for about 7-8 years or so, then I think I have been on this Spawn now for 3+. If I don't like a mouse, I will usually just ditch it right away and keep buying mice until I find one I like and would't mind using for next few years.


I can't imagine you'll hit the Xornet II's malfunction speed in any games other than FPS's. Do you play FPS's? If so, do you know how many cm it takes you to do a full 360 turn? I understand you prefer 800 DPI and that might not be too much of a problem on the Xornet II because the 1000 step is about 830 due to the magnification of the lens. Here's a mousetester plot I made a while ago in the Xornet II thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> 1000CPI, 830 after ~10cm. Malfunctions at 4m/s and does some weird backtracking after it (which is the negative velocity readings) but I never reach 4m/s in-game so it's all good for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, yes, the scroll wheel is not only a better material but also sturdier with very nice scroll steps. In fact, the whole mouse is sturdier and mine has almost zero rattle when shaking it (had literally no rattle until I swapped out the middle switch). My Xornet I is like a maraca. Almost every button on it rattles.
> 
> Edit: That result was also WITH tape over the sensor with LOD set to High. Tracking at ~1 CD with no jitter.


I basically got the mouse to malfunction at 4m/s. Another thing to note is that the lift-off distance is really high. I use tape over the sensor to lower it.


----------



## Fidex

*What's your grip style?* Palm Grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 400 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* 100$ maximum
*Do you want additional buttons?* Lateral buttons at least
*What games do you play?* CS.Go
*Other relevant information:*
Actually i have the Zowie Fk1 but maybe i will change it because i have some problems with the scroll wheel and I'm looking for a new mouse.

I'd like a palm grip mouse , if it's possible , similar to my old Logitech G500 what was the most comfortable mouse I ever had


----------



## JackCY

Zowie...
Logitech...
I would not touch Mionix again.

All mice suffer from double clicks it's because the switch contacts corrode and the spring gets weak, they are only rated for so many clicks without maintenance, be it Omrons or other. I can use Omrons with maintenance forever but the spring gets weak so click is softer and less loud than new Omrons.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fidex*
> 
> I'd like a palm grip mouse , if it's possible , similar to my old Logitech G500 what was the most comfortable mouse I ever had


check out the IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 and Logitech G502.
also, is your G500 broken or do you just want something new? if you really liked the shape that much, you can probably still find used ones on the internet


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fidex*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Palm Grip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 400 DPI
> *What's your maximum budget?* 100$ maximum
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Lateral buttons at least
> *What games do you play?* CS.Go
> *Other relevant information:*
> Actually i have the Zowie Fk1 but maybe i will change it because i have some problems with the scroll wheel and I'm looking for a new mouse.
> 
> I'd like a palm grip mouse , if it's possible , similar to my old Logitech G500 what was the most comfortable mouse I ever had


I literally know someone giving away a G500 for free, they will pay shipping too. If you want it lemme know i will hit em up about the Mouse asap.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Really would like to see a Spawn II, though


You're not the only one here.

A Spawn 2 with a 3366 sensor inside, would really be something for the youngster's out there







.


----------



## jesh462

This post is for my buddy, I have Roccat KPM that I'm still in love with. I'd love to hear your guy's suggestions! Thanks!









*What's your grip style?* Palm Grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 1200-1800 DPI
*What's your maximum budget?* 100$ maximum
*Do you want additional buttons?* standard thumb buttons ok, more is better
*What games do you play?* MMOs and MOBAs, some shooters rarely
*Other relevant information:*
My hand is 19cm in length. Although shooters are not my primary jam, I'd like to stay with an optical sensor with no acceleration and little smoothing, no big polling issues or bad click latency.

Already aware of:
G502
Naos 7000
Cougar 550m
Gigabyte XM300
Rival 300
DM2

Any others? Which would you pick and why?


----------



## Travieso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Have you heard of CoolerMaster's latest model the Xornet 2?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Optical-Lighting-SGM-2002-KLON1/dp/B017M4FT34
> 
> and here;
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826570026
> 
> Very cheap price and you could easily RMA it if it breaks hence give it a go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thx man.


----------



## kuoniradha

Guys, I'm totally lost. I've been using for the past 3 to 4 years a Logitech G500 and had a good time with it. But it's time to move on for several reasons:

The G500 is not suited for my fingertip grip, the tips of my index and middle finger sit HALFWAY on the main buttons;
The G500 has a weird sharp angle and my pinky sits on it getting very sore;
The G500's sensor jitters like crazy when lifted;


What's your grip style? *Fingertips*.
What's your sensitivity? *1800 dpi*.
What's your maximum budget? *Up to 100 Euros*.
Do you want additional buttons? *Back/Forward will suffice, DPI switch is not a deal breaker but other than that I don't need many other buttons*.
What games do you play? *MOBAs, FPSs*.
Do you mind about prediction? *I'd like a sensor as RAW as possible*.
Other relevant information:
*I'd like the absence of jitter when I lift the mouse, I'd like it to weigh around 100 grams or less with low to medium actuation force on M1 and M2. I want something comfy but I don't want sharp angles to hit my pinky finger (as I tend to feel soreness with my current G500). I'd like to have some sort of software*.
I've been 'researching' mice infos for the past week now. From what I gather, the G303 would be a nice choice for me but two factors hold be back from it:

Sensor rattle;
Braided cable too thick to be used with a mouse bungee;
Lack of some sort of thumbrest.
As I said, I'm pretty lost guys.

Any help appreciated, thanks a lot!


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuoniradha*
> 
> Guys, I'm totally lost. I've been using for the past 3 to 4 years a Logitech G500 and had a good time with it. But it's time to move on for several reasons:


Roccat Kone Pure Military


----------



## m0uz

$40 for a new KPM. That's just unfair. Goes for £50 here and never comes down.

I cri


----------



## kuoniradha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> Roccat Kone Pure Military


The Roccat KPM has been under my radar for a while but there's something that worries me: the strange shape on its left side... Seems like there's a 'ridge', just like in my G500, that could make contact with the joint between the distal and middle phalanx on my littlefinger. Right now I know for sure that such a contact would make my finger sore like hell, just like my G500 currently does.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuoniradha*
> 
> The Roccat KPM has been under my radar for a while but there's something that worries me: the strange shape on its left side... Seems like there's a 'ridge', just like in my G500, that could make contact with the joint between the distal and middle phalanx on my littlefinger. Right now I know for sure that such a contact would make my finger sore like hell, just like my G500 currently does.


yeah I had a bit of problems with that using my fingertip grip with the KPM... when stretching the thumb from bent to straight, it would touch the ridge. took a while to get used to... not using it anymore though.


----------



## dwnfall

What's your grip style? Not sure tbh. I try not to let my wrist rest on table or it will hurt.
What's your sensitivity? 1200 DPI atm can change
What's your maximum budget? Nothing too crazy
Do you want additional buttons? Does not matter this is for LoL
What games do you play? LoL mostly
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure
Other relevant information:
I am looking for the most comfortable gaming mouse for my hand. I have gone thru the Rival (decent), G500S (decent), Deathadder (decent shape), and G403 or w.e that triangle one was (horrible) and I can only play like 1 game of LoL before my hand goes numb. I have my chair and desk level and my arm seems to be at a 90 degree angle so I need a good mouse for my hand. My hands are small/medium size with longer fingers. Any tips appreciated.


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> $40 for a new KPM. That's just unfair. Goes for £50 here and never comes down.
> 
> I cri


Yeah I bought mine for $99. It's a steal, for sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuoniradha*
> 
> The Roccat KPM has been under my radar for a while but there's something that worries me: the strange shape on its left side... Seems like there's a 'ridge', just like in my G500, that could make contact with the joint between the distal and middle phalanx on my littlefinger. Right now I know for sure that such a contact would make my finger sore like hell, just like my G500 currently does.


My little finger goes along the side of the mouse where it is pretty flat. There is no rubbing. It is quite comfortable. To me, it is pretty much the perfect shape for fingertip grip.
Unless by little finger you mean thumb? The ridge is rounded and does not rub. It cradles the shape of my thumb perfectly and enables me to easily lift up the mouse when playing at low sensitivity. I have 18.5cm hands. I guess if your thumb was a good amount larger, comfort could be an issue.


----------



## kuoniradha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> My little finger goes along the side of the mouse where it is pretty flat. There is no rubbing. It is quite comfortable. To me, it is pretty much the perfect shape for fingertip grip.


By little finger I mean my 5th digit, not my thumb.
Thank you for your feedback btw! I'm going to try to show you the thing that worries me about the KPM, even though you told me it's not an issue:

What worries me it's that kind of ridge/edge between the red curves... Is it sharp? Does it 'stick' or is it just a normal angle?
From this picture it looks like it sticks out, like on my G500 and I wouldn't want that at all XD:


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuoniradha*
> 
> By little finger I mean my 5th digit, not my thumb.


Ooh I gotcha.


http://imgur.com/Bat46

, since I doubt you are the only one with this worry. The ridge is very smooth and very slight. It's only there to aid in pickup for low sensitivity players. It's placed right at the joint to give a little bit of grip to an otherwise smooth shape. It feels very natural.

Basically, your last finger sits mostly above the ridge unless you lift up the mouse. Once you lift your mouse, your hand pulls your farthest digit inwards, putting the ridge between your phalanges. This gives a little bit of grip and something for your hand to hold onto. It's not an unpleasant feeling at all.

If you play at higher sensitivity and do not lift up the mouse, you will never feel it.


----------



## kuoniradha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> Ooh I gotcha.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Bat46
> 
> , since I doubt you are the only one with this worry.


Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for







.

Ok then, given your answers I'll give the KPM a try and it looks like I won't have to return it.
Thanks again for the aid!


----------



## jesh462

No problem! Like I said, I really love mine and it has already given me a trouble free year of service with no wear.
I hope you enjoy yours too.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jesh462*
> 
> Yeah I bought mine for $99. It's a steal, for sure.


Umm... wut? AUD? CAD?

Edit: Ok, I just understood what you meant. I'm dumb. Still, $99! Damn


----------



## kignt

I have the same mouse(avior 7000) since Jun 2014. My wheel button also failed for almost a year. One solution was to bind the wheel click to a side button, not ideal but I barely use the right side buttons anyway. I'm looking for a new mouse now.


----------



## Steelheart

Hi!
I'd like to get a Zowie FK or ZA. Which one would be the best for 21/10cm hand, fingertip grip?

Thanks!


----------



## t3nchi

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity?400 dpi 1.8 sens in CS
What's your maximum budget?None
Do you want additional buttons? Side Buttons
What games do you play? CS,LoL
Do you mind about prediction? None
Other relevant information:
hand size 18 cm
8 cm across


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3nchi*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm
> What's your sensitivity?400 dpi 1.8 sens in CS
> What's your maximum budget?None
> Do you want additional buttons? Side Buttons
> What games do you play? CS,LoL
> Do you mind about prediction? None
> Other relevant information:
> hand size 18 cm
> 8 cm across


Deathadder, going for a great price right now under $50.


----------



## jesh462

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Umm... wut? AUD? CAD?
> 
> Edit: Ok, I just understood what you meant. I'm dumb. Still, $99! Damn


I meant USD. xD
It's ok, though. I am fine with paying more since I got more time to actually use the mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steelheart*
> 
> Hi!
> I'd like to get a Zowie FK or ZA. Which one would be the best for 21/10cm hand, fingertip grip?
> 
> Thanks!


ZA is meant for larger hands to palm grip. The FK would be much better for fingertip but not ideal. It is meant for palm/claw. But I think most people would go with the EC-2a for fingertip.









Can anyone reply to my post here?
I am thinking XM300>Cougar 550m/Mionix Naos 7000.
The XM300 has some issues but they aren't huge and it has a shot at being the most responsive mouse out. The 550m is a little heavier and doesn't have forward positioning of the sensor like the XM300, so that makes it second choice for me to recommend, even though it doesn't have any issues. The Naos 7000 just fits me like a glove and would be my top pick for comfort. I've never tried a 3988/3989 so I don't know if my friend would even feel a difference in sensor responsiveness, and the comfort of the Naos might just put it in 1st place. My hand is nearly the same size as his, so chances are good he'll like it too.
I am kinda shying away from the g502 since they don't use omrons, their plastic feels a little cheap, and the overall gamer aesthetic is not my friend's jam.
The DM2 looks great, but it has no software to map buttons, switch profiles, or change lighting. It also doesn't use the 3988 sensor. I really want to try that sensor out.


----------



## CuriousNapper

I have an old razer abyssus mouse. It is worn out now.

I use claw style grip.


----------



## prznar1

Originally Posted by F u r u y a

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Quite low, dunno how check it, but im always setting sens to low in either windows and games.
What's your maximum budget? 30-40$
Do you want additional buttons? not realy
What games do you play? wot swtor
Do you mind about prediction? no
Other relevant information: SCROLL NEEDS TO BE BULLETPROOF
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Good handling and lightweight mouse with seriously low friction. Buttons and specially scroll needs to be damn indestructible so the mouse will work for me for more then 6 months.

Thx in advance OCN!


----------



## prznar1

None will help me? im not following latest tech for mice and keyboards.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prznar1*
> 
> Originally Posted by F u r u y a
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Quite low, dunno how check it, but im always setting sens to low in either windows and games.
> What's your maximum budget? 30-40$
> Do you want additional buttons? not realy
> What games do you play? wot swtor
> Do you mind about prediction? no
> Other relevant information: SCROLL NEEDS TO BE BULLETPROOF
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Good handling and lightweight mouse with seriously low friction. Buttons and specially scroll needs to be damn indestructible so the mouse will work for me for more then 6 months.
> 
> Thx in advance OCN!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prznar1*
> 
> None will help me? im not following latest tech for mice and keyboards.


If you take a gander and believe you can get use to the shape of the G303, then I say grab it as soon as possible. I have posted this before, it is overall the Best bang for your buck. Arguably the best mouse 1 & 2's, the Best sensor, solid side buttons, good scroll(to me it is great). The only issue is the possible sensor rattle which seems to have gotten better, however if you get one that rattles Logitech will help with that, they area very understanding about that stupid issue that should not exist.

Overall it's a steal for the current price it is at and gets my recommendation. If you claw or fingertip then this is the route for you. Get use to it and you are golden.


----------



## prznar1

I like mice that have a support for little finger, but i might try it. Thx for tip!

Just inspected the specs of it. 200 dpi in lowest setting







this might work for me pretty well







Thx again


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prznar1*
> 
> I like mice that have a support for little finger, but i might try it. Thx for tip!
> 
> Just inspected the specs of it. 200 dpi in lowest setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this might work for me pretty well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thx again


No problem at all, glad to help.


----------



## jesh462

You can also buy an open box one for a steal since the person who returned it probably rattled the sensor and sent it back. Fix it with tape and spend the cash on sushi.


----------



## Bdonedge

What is the closest thing to a Razer Deathadder? I love that mouse but can not stand the terrible drivers and QC from Razer.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdonedge*
> 
> What is the closest thing to a Razer Deathadder? I love that mouse but can not stand the terrible drivers and QC from Razer.


The most widely available mouse is another Deathadder. Otherwise the Zowie EC1 mouse is the ideal change but they're hard to get.


----------



## Curleyyy

Razer drivers are fine.

1.) get razer mouse, ie deathadder
2.) install latest firmware / driver (not synapse)
3.) configure mouse (polling rate, buttons, dpi) and save
4.) uninstall drivers / reboot

ez boyz

One of my friends was talking about a wireless mouse "more responsive" than a wired mouse.
He can't find the video though. Can someone help us out?


----------



## Bucake

i think the DA2013 and DAChroma only work with synapse, though? (as in there's no other software supporting them)
this probably goes for most, if not all newer Razer mice.

that fast wireless mouse btw is the Logitech G900.
( but qsxcv (on these forums) made an even faster one: http://www.overclock.net/t/1598978/a-wireless-mouse-faster-than-logitechs-wired-ones-oh-yes )


----------



## Bdonedge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i think the DA2013 and DAChroma only work with synapse, though? (as in there's no other software supporting them)
> 
> this probably goes for most, if not all newer Razer mice.
> 
> that fast wireless mouse btw is the Logitech G900.
> ( but qsxcv (on these forums) made an even faster one: http://www.overclock.net/t/1598978/a-wireless-mouse-faster-than-logitechs-wired-ones-oh-yes )


This is my experience. I shouldn't have to install a cloud based driver and then uninstall it for it to work. I don't want to deal with a company that thinks invasive drivers like that are acceptable


----------



## snoogins

What's your grip style?
Palm.
What's your sensitivity?
Not really sure how to answer this, I don't install any Razer software, and use 3.4 in CS:GO
What's your maximum budget?
None really, how expensive can this get?
Do you want additional buttons?
I prefer two thumb buttons. (Right Handed)
What games do you play?
WoW, CS:GO, Smite - but mostly FPS.
Do you mind about prediction?
I am not really sure if my current DE has it.
I dislike having software installed for my mouse or peripherals. I enjoy the rubber grip on the DE, however the left click is starting to not always work. I am not too fond of flashy lights and all either. My mouse progression has gone Intellimouse Optical -> Logitech MX 510 -> Deathadder BE. I would still use the MX510, but the DPI was way too low once I moved onto higher resolution monitors. I believe I like the ergonomics of a RH mouse over the other choices. Was checking out a Zowie EC2, and the Steelseries Sensei Raw. Logitech has pushed me away from their current offerings with their more 'gamey' design.


----------



## JackCY

What's your grip style?
*21cm hand
Palm / hybrid (knuckles + fingers)*
What's your sensitivity?
*800 CPI minimum, 1600 CPI preferred*
What's your maximum budget?
*Zowie by BenQ level*
Do you want additional buttons?
*5 total is fine of which 2 are on left side*
What games do you play?
*All, so lets make it FPS.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Don't want any prediction, smoothing, angle snapping, ...*
Other relevant information:
*Preferred:*

LOD 1.5mm 1CD
right handed or ambidextrous
around 100g max
wired
not braided
durable finish, matte plastic is fine, no need for expensive rubber coating that will peel off in a year or two, neither do I desire a rubber that falls apart after 2 years
Omron switches preferred but Huano is fine, any switch of similar quality and durability
has to work on it's own without crazy software, as in no software needed for mouse to operate optimally, thus has on board memory for any settings selected
minimum click latency, debouncing of switches is preffered but kept to minimum no worse than IE3.0
minimum latency in movement
500-1000Hz USB


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *21cm hand
> Palm / hybrid (knuckles + fingers)*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *800 CPI minimum, 1600 CPI preferred*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *Zowie by BenQ level*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *5 total is fine of which 2 are on left side*
> What games do you play?
> *All, so lets make it FPS.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Don't want any prediction, smoothing, angle snapping, ...*
> Other relevant information:
> *Preferred:*
> 
> LOD 1.5mm 1CD
> right handed or ambidextrous
> around 100g max
> wired
> not braided
> durable finish, matte plastic is fine, no need for expensive rubber coating that will peel off in a year or two, neither do I desire a rubber that falls apart after 2 years
> Omron switches preferred but Huano is fine, any switch of similar quality and durability
> has to work on it's own without crazy software, as in no software needed for mouse to operate optimally, thus has on board memory for any settings selected
> minimum click latency, debouncing of switches is preffered but kept to minimum no worse than IE3.0
> minimum latency in movement
> 500-1000Hz USB


Zowie EC1-a seems like the obvious choice. FK1 or FK1+ would also be a good choice if you want ambi.


----------



## JackCY

EC1 is too small, it's a 20cm or lower size hand, I've tried.
FK1+ and ZA11 are on the list to try but they are likely not long enough either, hard to tell since they are ambi.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> EC1 is too small, it's a 20cm or lower size hand, I've tried.
> FK1+ and ZA11 are on the list to try but they are likely not long enough either, hard to tell since they are ambi.


Ec1-a too small??

The za11 is the same length.

Try the Rival or the XTD optical if those are too small.


----------



## dwnfall

Good mouse for me? I play LoL mostly.

Tried the following:
G403 (shape was terrible)
Deathadder (good except thumb area not the best)
G500s (not too bad using now)

I love the clicks on the g403 or 303 whatever it was.. it clicked super easy the shape was just atrocious. Any ideas? Ergonomics in mind.

1200-1600 DPI


----------



## Rachetmouse

Steelseries Rival 100
Logitech 100s
Razer Abyssus


----------



## dwnfall

What about G502? Is there any diffrerence in shape or clicks from the G500?


----------



## ModusPwnens

I was looking into the SteelSeries Sensei Wireless and I saw a lot of complaints here. I'm particularly worried about the complaints about the extreme-even-for-a-wireless-optical-mouse acceleration that can't be disabled and the general build quality.

I mouse left-handed and am looking to get rid of wires from my desk. Given that a wireless, ambidextrous mouse is always going to come with some severe drawbacks, are there any better alternatives within those confines? I'm guessing more details won't be too helpful since I doubt there are many other mice that fit that bill.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Rachetmouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> What about G502? Is there any diffrerence in shape or clicks from the G500?


Stiffer clicks, somewhat similar shape, better tracking, but has a loose scroll wheel. Not really an ideal LoL mouse. I would go with the Abyssus or g100s if you feel the need to try something else. g100s is 20$ on newegg.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Ec1-a too small??
> 
> The za11 is the same length.
> 
> Try the Rival or the XTD optical if those are too small.


*EC1 EVO CL*, no go, I tried.
*XTD Optical* is nearly impossible to find in a shop, impossible to find stock for me, the regular XTD is more common and cheaper but then I do prefer optical sensor. And the optical if found is overpriced, way overpriced over the regular XTD and any other Zowie, LG, RZR mouse.
*Rival 300*, I am unsure off, is there a review thread of it on the forum? There only seem to be a million of Rival issue threads :/ I'm not confident about the quality of this one and side buttons seem high out of reach. But it's one I might try. Which one of them is the most durable? Gray? Is the side rubber still falling apart or digging too much into hands? Maybe can try in a shop if they keep it on display. White is gloss? Gray matte plastic or matte paint? Black rubber coated? Does the coating last more than 2 years?
*ZA11* I may be able to try in a shop. The rest I have to buy to try and return if I don't like them.
*GB XM300* is one possible too but can't try it in shop anywhere and has many QC and FW issues :/


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rachetmouse*
> 
> Stiffer clicks, somewhat similar shape, better tracking, but has a loose scroll wheel. Not really an ideal LoL mouse. I would go with the Abyssus or g100s if you feel the need to try something else. g100s is 20$ on newegg.


loose scroll wheel? never heard that before. it has a very heavy metal wheel, but if you're crafty and can change that, it's great - assuming you don't mind heavier mice.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> *Rival 300*, I am unsure off, is there a review thread of it on the forum? There only seem to be a million of Rival issue threads :/ I'm not confident about the quality of this one and side buttons seem high out of reach. But it's one I might try. Which one of them is the most durable? Gray? Is the side rubber still falling apart or digging too much into hands? Maybe can try in a shop if they keep it on display. White is gloss? Gray matte plastic or matte paint? Black rubber coated? Does the coating last more than 2 years?


I have fairly small hands (18cm and 9cm measurements) and been using Rival for a good while and no issues with the sidegrips and haven't had any spinning issues with it. Guess I should mention that I'm using the old Rival and not the 300. Black Rubberized. It does leave fingerprints, but I think that could be due to my hands getting kinda oily/sweaty. As for the side buttons being too "far" ? Sure they are a bit high but they're easily reachable.. if you wanted you could just hold your thumb right below them and you can't accidentally even press them unless you tend to squeeze mice like a mad man. You can activate the side buttons just by tilting your thumb.

Although people would consider Rival a bit too big mouse for me.. it's length has never bothered me as it works quite well with my finger/palm hybrid grip. I can aim with it much better than with my Zowie EC2-A, KanaV2, DA or Abyssus.(Then again this is my personal opinion based on my experience with these mice) Going to keep using this until I find something that takes my interest(would use my Ducky Secret instead if I'd have a bit wider hand). Been watching Gigabyte XM300 and CoolerMaster Alcor as they seem to be very interesting. Gigabyte XM300 not being as wide from grip width as DA that's a plus and the right curve seems much more natural than on DA.

As for CoolerMaster Alcor... it seems very comfortable but not sure if I should take it or then get the Cougar's 300M.


----------



## JackCY

I will try getting my hands on the Rival and ZA11, if I don't like either I will try XM300...
The rest with 125mm length is too small.

But the size and ergonomics go together there are some mice that can be usable yet they are medium sized. It's just very hard to find them and possibly may not be usable long term, I've tried that once with a small mouse the small width is a no go long term.

I don't care about finger prints etc. as long as the coating, surface is durable. Raw plastic preferred as any paint is likely to die in 2years+ from the sweaty hands. I have my IE3.0 polished black plastic as both the rubber coating and paint didn't last but a couple years so I sanded and polished the whole thing except places where I don't touch the mouse and the rubber coating didn't peel off








I prefer no rubber wheels as those will die too, rubber and fancy coatings dry out, get destroyed by sweat etc. Almost nothing really survives human sweat when it comes to paint and rubber.

I hold my IE3.0 in such a way where thumb is just below the side buttons and I can easily click them, no tilting even needed, they are simply on the upper edge of my thumb, I've tried the same with EC1 and that was a no go since the buttons were too high.
DA front would annoy me I think, I've never liked it from pictures.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Hi!

I hope I'm at the right place.
I'm looking for a decent mouse, with a software that has decent macroing (multiple key combinations - inculding mouse buttons -, delay setting for rapid fire).
Currently I'm using a G303, but the logitech software is a little weak when it comes to macros.

I'm not really familiar with other sofwares (Roccat, SS, Mionix, etc.)
Oh, and I don't want any third party software.

Many thanks for your help!


----------



## JackCY

AutoHotkey is what you want to be using for key combinations and many other things, it can do a lot and works with everything everywhere. I have never found any mouse/keyboard maker/proprietary software useful, always very limited in what it can do or very specific extensions, advantage is it's for dumb people where as AHK you can do anything but you have to write it or download it yourself what you want to do it does not come preprogrammed.
Rapid fire is known to work on A4tech Bloody software but I think it's also banned from competitions and such because of it, you know, no recoil rapid fire etc. isn't exactly something for pros.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I will try getting my hands on the Rival and ZA11, if I don't like either I will try XM300...
> The rest with 125mm length is too small.
> 
> But the size and ergonomics go together there are some mice that can be usable yet they are medium sized. It's just very hard to find them and possibly may not be usable long term, I've tried that once with a small mouse the small width is a no go long term.


Hmmh.. well the only 125mm mouse with kinda wide width would be Ducky Secret but many people say a no to it due to it's weight being around 119g without the extra weights added in. For me the weight wasn't a problem at all.. only downside was that it was too wide for me to use.. sadly. Then people are fine with Rival being 130g or at least that's what SteelSeries claims on their website.. but between DA, Ducky Secret and Rival didn't feel that much of a difference.. or then perhaps I'm not just sensitive enough about things like that.

And if you're looking for big mice... there's also the Cyclops and Cyclops X but people been saying bad things about those... just thought of mentioning those.


----------



## Bucake

macros? multiple buttons? rapid fire? Klaymen would not approve


----------



## snoogins

Any chance someone has a suggestion for me? Or where to find an EC1, which is what I guess I am suggesting to myself.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> AutoHotkey is what you want to be using for key combinations and many other things, it can do a lot and works with everything everywhere. I have never found any mouse/keyboard maker/proprietary software useful, always very limited in what it can do or very specific extensions, advantage is it's for dumb people where as AHK you can do anything but you have to write it or download it yourself what you want to do it does not come preprogrammed.
> Rapid fire is known to work on A4tech Bloody software but I think it's also banned from competitions and such because of it, you know, no recoil rapid fire etc. isn't exactly something for pros.


I'm not planning to go competitive, just casually playing to let some steam out after work.

I don't want autohotkey, because it's a running program, it could be detected. The basic funcions that almost any mouse software can offer is more than enough for me. Plus it stores the stuff on the mouse so i don't have to install it on every machine I use.

A4tech is a bit unfair for me. It can move the cursor on the x and y axis, etc. Plus I have to buy the stupid software for the mouse I just purchased?


----------



## Roybr

What's your grip style? *Fingertip mostly. Hand size is 19cm.*
What's your sensitivity? *3000*
What's your maximum budget? *No limit*
Do you want additional buttons? *At least two on Left Side*
What games do you play? *Mostly Moba and FPS.*
Do you mind about prediction? *No.*
Other relevant information:
*- Right handed or Ambidextrous;
- Durable finish;
- A already have a G502 and want something with less weight and i don´t find it comfortable for long gaming sessions.*

I would like three options.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roybr*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip mostly. Hand size is 19cm.*
> What's your sensitivity? *3000*
> What's your maximum budget? *No limit*
> Do you want additional buttons? *At least two on Left Side*
> What games do you play? *Mostly Moba and FPS.*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No.*
> Other relevant information:
> *- Right handed or Ambidextrous;
> - Durable finish;
> - A already have a G502 and want something with less weight and i don´t find it comfortable for long gaming sessions.*
> 
> I would like three options.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


G303, Xornet II.


----------



## m0uz

Xornet II almost definitely doesn't perform well PCS-wise on the 3000 step


----------



## Kmango23

What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
1. Fingertip grip
2. 1600dpi
3. 100$, though cheaper would be nice
4. 2 side buttons would be enough, 3 button mice would be fine but not exactly preferred
5. FPS (CSGO, Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege) and MOBA (LoL)
6. Would like to have a mouse with little to no prediction.

Have relatively small hands (around 17.5-18cm hands last time I checked), looking to upgrade from a CM Storm Recon as I'm getting some double click issues after about 3 yrs with it. Don't mind ambi mice but can work with ergos as well.


----------



## Zakman

What's your grip style? Palm grip.
What's your sensitivity? I adjust it according to the weight of the mouse. Currently using a DM1 Pro so I'm running at 1.4 @ 400DPI.
What's your maximum budget? No budget.
Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 side buttons on the left.
What games do you play? FPS, mainly CS:GO.
Do you mind about prediction? If the mouse is extremely comfortable then i don't mind but if possible, i could do without prediction.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.
In the past I've used the EC2-A, FK1 and ZA12. I had minor gripes with all of the mice; EC2-A was very comfortable I just found that the ridge on the right was too pronounced, it digged into my ring finger a lot. The ZA12 was also comfortable but the groove on the right side of my mouse made my ring finger dig into it at times and cause discomfort. The FK1 was too low-profile.

Currently using the DM1 Pro and it's a good mouse, just not enough space on the right side to accomodate my ring and pinky fingers.

As you can see i have a large problem with my ring and pinky fingers when it comes to gaming mice so I've been looking at the DM2 Comfy, the Naos and the QPAD 8K (mainly the QPAD), however I've been told that they're mainly for large hands. I have average-sized hands - 18.5cm length, 8.5-9cm width.

Would the 8K, Naos or DM2 be comfortable for me? Or can anyone recommend a mouse that has good support for my ring and pinky fingers? I'm not bothered about the weight of a mouse, just want something that's comfortable.

Sorry for the long post haha but I'm really trying to find a comfortable mouse at this point. Hope I've provided enough details.

Edit: Also looking at the SS Ikari.


----------



## dwnfall

What's your grip style? Palm but I want to switch to fingertip or claw (I don't want my palm to touch my mouse at all.. I have scar tissue from a surgery and need only fingers touching.
What's your sensitivity? 1200 can go up if needed
What's your maximum budget? Nothing crazy
Do you want additional buttons? Not needed
What games do you play? Mostly LoL
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure tbh.
Other relevant information: Need a mouse that is easy to click if possible.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zakman*
> 
> What's your grip style? Palm grip.
> What's your sensitivity? I adjust it according to the weight of the mouse. Currently using a DM1 Pro so I'm running at 1.4 @ 400DPI.
> What's your maximum budget? No budget.
> Do you want additional buttons? Just 2 side buttons on the left.
> What games do you play? FPS, mainly CS:GO.
> Do you mind about prediction? If the mouse is extremely comfortable then i don't mind but if possible, i could do without prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.
> In the past I've used the EC2-A, FK1 and ZA12. I had minor gripes with all of the mice; EC2-A was very comfortable I just found that the ridge on the right was too pronounced, it digged into my ring finger a lot. The ZA12 was also comfortable but the groove on the right side of my mouse made my ring finger dig into it at times and cause discomfort. The FK1 was too low-profile.
> 
> Currently using the DM1 Pro and it's a good mouse, just not enough space on the right side to accomodate my ring and pinky fingers.
> 
> As you can see i have a large problem with my ring and pinky fingers when it comes to gaming mice so I've been looking at the DM2 Comfy, the Naos and the QPAD 8K (mainly the QPAD), however I've been told that they're mainly for large hands. I have average-sized hands - 18.5cm length, 8.5-9cm width.
> 
> Would the 8K, Naos or DM2 be comfortable for me? Or can anyone recommend a mouse that has good support for my ring and pinky fingers? I'm not bothered about the weight of a mouse, just want something that's comfortable.
> 
> Sorry for the long post haha but I'm really trying to find a comfortable mouse at this point. Hope I've provided enough details.
> 
> Edit: Also looking at the SS Ikari.


Well if I remember correctly DM2 is identical to Qpad 8k shape/size wise? My own experience with the Qpad 8k was that it would kinda squeeze my pinky and feel a bit uncomfortable.

Naos is comfortable and can work with 18-18,5 cm hands. It is just a bit low profile, but by all means doesn't feel uncomfortable. If you sweat easily.. your hands are like clued to the mouse itself.

And well EC2-A in my opinion is more of a hybrid grip mouse than it is a full palm. If you liked the shape then you could try EC1-A as it is a bit bigger and feels comfortable with full palm.

My hand measurements are 18cm and 9cm just for reference.

I guess your best bet would be to try them and then just send them back if you don't like them? If that is a possibility.


----------



## Venser

Hi, I'm looking for a new mouse. Used Abyssus for a long time (original and 1800 version) and was satisfied with it except right mouse button starts acting up, being hard to press after some time (this happened to both of them). So I'm not sure I want to buy 3rd Abyssus and wait for it to go to **** again. Tried Zowie EC2 evo CL for a while but didn't like the shape, weight or the plastic. Felt sluggish as hell and the clicks felt slow compared to Abyssus. I want something light. Thought about giving another Zowie a try, specifically FK2 but then I read this and got worried:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1601643/whats-the-deal-with-zowie-mice
G100s crossed my mind too but remember reading something bad about it.

So I'm looking for something that feels a lot like Abyssus in terms of size and weight. I'm fingertip gripper, no prediction or accel, medium sens. Would prefer no side buttons but it's not a deal breaker. Play Quake and Starcraft.


----------



## SmashTV

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venser*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking for a new mouse. Used Abyssus for a long time (original and 1800 version) and was satisfied with it except right mouse button starts acting up, being hard to press after some time (this happened to both of them). So I'm not sure I want to buy 3rd Abyssus and wait for it to go to **** again. Tried Zowie EC2 evo CL for a while but didn't like the shape, weight or the plastic. Felt sluggish as hell and the clicks felt slow compared to Abyssus. I want something light. Thought about giving another Zowie a try, specifically FK2 but then I read this and got worried:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1601643/whats-the-deal-with-zowie-mice
> G100s crossed my mind too but remember reading something bad about it.
> 
> So I'm looking for something that feels a lot like Abyssus in terms of size and weight. I'm fingertip gripper, no prediction or accel, medium sens. Would prefer no side buttons but it's not a deal breaker. Play Quake and Starcraft.






Abyssus is pretty small but you're in the right territory. G100S, Torq X5, the small ZA mice. Because of the shape of the rear don't think on FK would work. Only picking things I think would be close in grip.

Otherwise just change the switches in your current mouse. Costs less than buying a new one on average.


----------



## ryder

looking for a small, wireless reliable/excellent mouse for a work laptop. will never be used for gaming, only work.

any recommendations?


----------



## Black Magix

What's your grip style?
Claw/fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
3600 dpi (I think)
What's your maximum budget?
200
Do you want additional buttons?
yes, thumb buttons are a must
What games do you play?
FPS, RTS, a little bit of everything
Do you mind about prediction?
Not sure what that is.
Other relevant information
I'm currently using a g502 but I find it may be more suited to a palm grip as I find the buttons a little too deep for me. I find I use my mx518 at work and curl my index and middle fingers on the left and right buttons. on the g502 I find the sensitivity buttons awkward to press and the middle mouse button hard to push as well with my grip.


----------



## dstrk

What's your grip style?
I thinkk claw

What's your sensitivity?
400dpi - 500dpi - 800

What's your maximum budget?

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes but dont mind if not..

What games do you play?
Clash royale
Jk
All FPS

Do you mind about prediction?
Nope

Other relevant information:
Used kinzu but about to die in any day later.. I think i prefered small & lightweight mice and i have sweaty palm

Thx b4


----------



## psylence1

1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip

2. What's your sensitivity? Medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
No

5. What games do you play?
Dota 2

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No don't need it

7. Other relevant information:
Please recommend mouse pad too


----------



## BifePlays

What's your grip style? Fingertip/Claw Hybrid
What's your sensitivity? 700/800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? 100 USD
Do you want additional buttons? 2 (That can be mapped for keyboard shorcuts)
What games do you play? CS:GO, Minecraft PvP (may include jitter clicking), CoD, looking foward to play Rainbox Six Siege and Overwatch
Do you mind about prediction? I don't like it xD
Other relevant information:
I would like something with a Onboard memory and RGB, but going driverless can be considered too, as soon as it won't conflict with a RGB color theme.
Something that weights less than 100g.
A good precise optical sensor for my cloth mouse mat
Sturdy (at least more than my DeathAdder chroma)
Something with an activation force such as a DeathAdder Chroma (which I had and I loved it)

I've already used the DeathAdder Chroma, Mionix Castor (which switches seemed like they got a weaker activation force due time?) and Avior 7000 (had almost the same issue that the Castor, but not as much)

I have in mind: Roccat Kone Pure Optical/Military edition, Logitech G502 and G303/G302...


----------



## dasp0

Hello, I've had hard times finding a mouse that I feel comfortable using and now I am giving this a shot.

1. What's your grip style?
Palm / soft palm / palm with slight claw. I have girly hands that is 17.5cm in length, and about 10 width.
I could take pictures of how I hold any mouse if it helps even more.

2. What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no maccel. Ingame I use 2.0 ( IN CS:GO ).

3. What's your maximum budget?
Since a mouse can't get that expensive I am going to say that my budget is good enough for any mouse.

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I prefer 2 as any normal mouse has. But if I can get a mouse that's probably gonna fit me, I can ofc add some useless buttons.

5. What games do you play?
Counter-strike for like 10 years. Currently playing CS:GO Full 100% competetive and trying to become the best. Im soon going to be pro. I also play overwatch for fun and some other FPS games sometimes.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want prediction or built in maccel or something like that. I prefer a 3310 sensor or better.

7. Other relevant information:
I don't want a bad sensor. I would never play with a laser for example.
Drivers doesn't matter.
I hate braided cables.
The mouse should be able to handle really fast flicks and swipes since I am getting almost every mouse to spin out ;(

Every mouse I have used:
Zowie Fk2: Would probably love this mouse if it was wider.
Logitech G303: Awesome sensor, cool shape but the braided cable just turns me off, I hate the friction and I even have a mouse bungee.
Steelseries sensei: The best shaped mouse i've ever played with. But also one of the worst / laggiest sensors I've ever played with. Also the braided cable is really bad.
Zowie EC2-A: The shape is just not shaped for my hand. It literarly just feels weird.
Razer Deathadder Chroma: I didn't like the shape either. It felt weird, but the sensor was really good and snappy.

Thanks in advance guys!








I just noticed that I typed like a mad man. I hope someone will bother to read this :/


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dasp0*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, I've had hard times finding a mouse that I feel comfortable using and now I am giving this a shot.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm / soft palm / palm with slight claw. I have girly hands that is 17.5cm in length, and about 10 width.
> I could take pictures of how I hold any mouse if it helps even more.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400 dpi, 6/11 windows, no maccel. Ingame I use 2.0 ( IN CS:GO ).
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Since a mouse can't get that expensive I am going to say that my budget is good enough for any mouse.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I prefer 2 as any normal mouse has. But if I can get a mouse that's probably gonna fit me, I can ofc add some useless buttons.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Counter-strike for like 10 years. Currently playing CS:GO Full 100% competetive and trying to become the best. Im soon going to be pro. I also play overwatch for fun and some other FPS games sometimes.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't want prediction or built in maccel or something like that. I prefer a 3310 sensor or better.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I don't want a bad sensor. I would never play with a laser for example.
> Drivers doesn't matter.
> I hate braided cables.
> The mouse should be able to handle really fast flicks and swipes since I am getting almost every mouse to spin out ;(
> 
> Every mouse I have used:
> Zowie Fk2: Would probably love this mouse if it was wider.
> Logitech G303: Awesome sensor, cool shape but the braided cable just turns me off, I hate the friction and I even have a mouse bungee.
> Steelseries sensei: The best shaped mouse i've ever played with. But also one of the worst / laggiest sensors I've ever played with. Also the braided cable is really bad.
> Zowie EC2-A: The shape is just not shaped for my hand. It literarly just feels weird.
> Razer Deathadder Chroma: I didn't like the shape either. It felt weird, but the sensor was really good and snappy.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just noticed that I typed like a mad man. I hope someone will bother to read this :/


Why not just replace the cable on your G303? (example). If that's literally all that's bothering you then you have a great mouse already at your disposal.


----------



## dasp0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Why not just replace the cable on your G303? (example). If that's literally all that's bothering you then you have a great mouse already at your disposal.


Hmmm, I have never thought about that you could do that... but is it hard? What do I need? Do you have any guide or something ?
Does it have to be a specific cable or?

Sounds really interesting.


----------



## Maximillion

Pic was taken from this thread. Replacing mice cables is quite easy. You could literally swap out the G303's cable w/ the cable from another mouse you already own, for example. The main thing is making sure you match up the colored wires correctly. The cable used in that thread is an _extremely_ lightweight/flexible "paracord" provided/sold by @CeeSA (he ships from Germany), but anyone could make their own.


----------



## dasp0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Pic was taken from this thread. Replacing mice cables is quite easy. You could literally swap out the G303's cable w/ the cable from another mouse you already own, for example. The main thing is making sure you match up the colored wires correctly. The cable used in that thread is an _extremely_ lightweight/flexible "paracord" provided/sold by @CeeSA (he ships from Germany), but anyone could make their own.


So, do you think that I could use the zowie ec2 or zowie fk2 mouse cable? Would it support it?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dasp0*
> 
> So, do you think that I could use the zowie ec2 or zowie fk2 mouse cable? Would it support it?


Yes. But you would need to rearrange the internal wires.


----------



## CeeSA

exactly, with a video that shows what you want. Zowie goes Logitech


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> Zowie goes Logitech


Regardless, if they are going Logitech style, hoping QUALITY is what's copied and not their awful shapes (except the G900, it's god-like).


----------



## djdelarosa25

What's your grip style? *Hybrid palm/claw*
What's your sensitivity? *800 dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *30 USD*
Do you want additional buttons? *Not really, it's a bonus*
What games do you play? *CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*
Other relevant information: *Should be ambidextrous and have the best sensor in it's price range (basically an uber cheap Zowie, lighting is a bonus)*


----------



## wasbo

Hey guys, I'm looking for a WIRELESS gaming mouse for my laptop. I would like to spend max 50 USD. I also prefer not to use a mousepad (I play on a hardwood surface). What do you guys recommend?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Hybrid palm/claw*
> What's your sensitivity? *800 dpi*
> What's your maximum budget? *30 USD*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Not really, it's a bonus*
> What games do you play? *CS:GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*
> Other relevant information: *Should be ambidextrous and have the best sensor in it's price range (basically an uber cheap Zowie, lighting is a bonus)*


For that price range a ambidextrous mouse I'd have to say Rival 100. Lift off distance is around 2 CD's if I recall.. and it can handle some good speed. Most stable at 500 DPI if my memory serves me right.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> For that price range a ambidextrous mouse I'd have to say Rival 100. Lift off distance is around 2 CD's if I recall.. and it can handle some good speed. Most stable at 500 DPI if my memory serves me right.


Is the Rival 100's sensor better than the one on the G100s?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> Is the Rival 100's sensor better than the one on the G100s?


I'd say they are pretty similar, I wouldn't want to compare the sensors in that match up, but rather shape and features.

For me the rival 500 did feel a little bit more consistent because the LOD doesn't seem to be as affected as the g100s, atleast for me.

However the buttons on the rival 100 were horrible as I remember them, so many missed shots because I switch weapons faster than the click registers, I also had this exact problem with the kinzu v3, but not the kinzu v1 so I don't really know how steelseries designs these low budget mice buttons but I'm not a fan, maybe it's because of the coating since I've only owned the rubberized ones, but I don't have this problem with the rival 300.

For the g100s, buttons are complete opposite, they feel way too easy to click that I have done some accidental clicks when I'm just resting my fingers.


----------



## btgbullseye

What's your grip style? Hybrid, mostly claw. (my grip changes based on what I'm doing, have palmed and tipped it, but I average a claw)
What's your sensitivity? Usually 2700, varies based on the game and the situation. (this is solely based on the limitations of my current mouse's sensor)
What's your maximum budget? $60 (not a strict limit, can go over $100 if needed to meet my requirements)
Do you want additional buttons? At least 10 total, side scroll and Logitech style 'free scrolling' preferable.
What games do you play? Too many to list, assume all genres covered.
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction allowed.
Other relevant information: Looking for a replacement for my G700. I frequently use the macro capability, and even use the older SetPoint software so I can get the "repeat macro until button is released" option. (I probably overuse that option, but it eliminates a LOT of clicks that I would otherwise have to manually do) A really good sensor is my primary concern, followed by the customizability options. Must have macro, and repeat macro options. A lower price is better, but I have no strict limit. Main problem with my current mouse is the left click occasionally double-clicking when it should be single-clicking.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> I'd say they are pretty similar, I wouldn't want to compare the sensors in that match up, but rather shape and features.
> 
> For me the rival 500 did feel a little bit more consistent because the LOD doesn't seem to be as affected as the g100s, atleast for me.
> 
> However the buttons on the rival 100 were horrible as I remember them, so many missed shots because I switch weapons faster than the click registers, I also had this exact problem with the kinzu v3, but not the kinzu v1 so I don't really know how steelseries designs these low budget mice buttons but I'm not a fan, maybe it's because of the coating since I've only owned the rubberized ones, but I don't have this problem with the rival 300.
> 
> For the g100s, buttons are complete opposite, they feel way too easy to click that I have done some accidental clicks when I'm just resting my fingers.


So, what mouse would you recommend?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> So, what mouse would you recommend?


I am not an expert of what other budget mice there is out there, I just happened to own both the g100s and the rival 100 and imo they at quite identical and each with their flaws.

Either way I'd say go with the rival 100 simply because the build feels higher quality and newer. However remember that you can't have 800 dpi with it, it's either 500 or 1000.

You can have 800 dpi with the g100s but I'm also hearing that it performs better at 500/1000 aswell.

Either way, both mice are pretty similar. You won't really be missing out on anything if you buy the one or the other, but if I absolutely have to make a choice I'd take the Rival 100.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> I am not an expert of what other budget mice there is out there, I just happened to own both the g100s and the rival 100 and imo they at quite identical and each with their flaws.
> 
> Either way I'd say go with the rival 100 simply because the build feels higher quality and newer. However remember that you can't have 800 dpi with it, it's either 500 or 1000.
> 
> You can have 800 dpi with the g100s but I'm also hearing that it performs better at 500/1000 aswell.
> 
> Either way, both mice are pretty similar. You won't really be missing out on anything if you buy the one or the other, but if I absolutely have to make a choice I'd take the Rival 100.


Thanks for the answer! I'll go for the Rival 100 now. But I have a question. The normal Rival costs about $40 in our country. There's this Rival 100 PC Bang Edition for $25 here. Are you aware of the differences between the two?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> Thanks for the answer! I'll go for the Rival 100 now. But I have a question. The normal Rival costs about $40 in our country. There's this Rival 100 PC Bang Edition for $25 here. Are you aware of the differences between the two?


I don't really know, it just sounds like the bang is a much more stripped down version of the 100. Maybe no lights and things like that, but they could also have changed the sensor, I have no idea.


----------



## spaghettiman

Hey I'm kinda interested in the rival 300, and coming from a claw/palm with a deathadder I'm wondering how it'll fit in my hand. I'm a little worried about the long term effects this grip I use will have on my hand, so I hope someone will have an answer for how it would work with the rival 300.

mygrip 1966k .jpg file


mygrip2 2292k .jpg file


mygrip3 2531k .jpg file

Thanks for supporting my addiction


----------



## yan2xik

What's your grip style? palm hybrid want to go full palm because i have to take my hands of my mouse when i have nothing to do
What's your sensitivity? 400 cpi 1.8 ig (270° on qck+)
current mouse? Intellimouse 1.1 (doesnt say exuactly it's white-yellow)
hand size? it's about 19 cm http://i.imgur.com/1aN1E0M.jpg
was thinking about the Zowie ZA mice and was wondering which one is the right one for my hand (left handed)


----------



## Protek

1-What's your grip style?
Hybrid Fingertip/Claw, touch the mouse only with the fingertips hands claw position!

2-What's your sensitivity?
1600

3-What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter

4-Do you want additional buttons?
Two one side or two on each side

5-What games do you play?
Rainbow Six Siege, Battlefield 4

6-Do you mind about prediction?
Do not want predication or acceleration or anything!

7-What's your hand size?
Top to bottom 20,5cm
Side to side 11 cm

Other relevant information:
I was thinking about getting a FK1 or FK2 Zowie but my hand and a little big and even using fingertip can be uncomfortable or I'll end up getting a EC1 -A Zowie


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Since the G900 is really hurting my hand I will try it here:

What's your grip style?
Fingertip

What's your sensitivity?
~1200-1800 depending on game

What's your maximum budget?
-150 EUR

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes, two side buttons minimum (use one for jump)

What games do you play?
FPS (Doom, Overwatch), AoE2 (lots of RIGHT-Clickspamming)

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes

Other relevant information:
- lightweigt
- preferably wirelesss
- I like smaller. flat mice
- really like the buttons on the Diamondback, but the mouse is too flimsy and the sensor sucks
- Steelseries or Razer would be optimal since I already have Synapse and Steelseries Gamesense installed for other devices
- will be using a Razer Firefly as pad


----------



## qsxcv

well torq x5 is the first thing that comes to my mind when you mention flat.

i'm curious, what makes the g900 uncomfortable for you?


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Until now I was using a Razer Diamondback Chroma. I love the shape and the buttons, it's great for flick shots, instagib or RTS games, but I tend to overshoot a lot if I am to follow someone with my crosshair when using an SMG, lightning or similar. Also, the sensor sucks.

My aiming noticaeable improved with the G900 over the Diamondback.

However, my hand really starts to hurt when using the G900. The main buttons are too high. Playing a RTS where I click a lot tires me out within minutes. Also due to the back-heavy weight distribution and the wide back but narrow front my fingters tend to cramp up around the mouse since there is no place to firmly grip it. Futhermore I am missing rubber coating like its found on Razer mice.

I can somewhat lessen the fatigue to my hand when switching from fingertip to claw grip and/or using a wrist rest, especially when click-spamming. Still this is not optimal. How does the sensor compare to the Avago 3989 in the Deathadder Chroma or the widely used 3310?


----------



## spaghettiman

I'd recommend the deathadder, though I'm not entirely sure how comfy it'd be for you. The chroma has a rougher plastic for its body, a 2013 is what you'd probably want, unless it costs a lot more at this point. In my opinion, and from what I've seen a lot of others say, the s3989 is the snappiest sensor I've ever used and with around 19cm hands it feels great. As far as how it compares to the g900 I can't say sensor wise, but the shape of the deathadder is a lot more accommodating to my hand size with a palm/claw hybrid grip. As far as 3310 mice go, a zowie ec series might be for you since its buttons are higher up, but the shape highly suggests palm grip. I'd say go for the deathadder, but that might just be 6 years of using it brainwashing me. Hope this helps.

edit: here's a comparison vid b/t the sensors: 



although this isn't a g900, it uses the same sensor


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Tried a couple of mice today at alocal electronics store. The shape I liekd the most was a Steelseries Rival 100. It uses a very utdated sensor, though. Took a Deathadder Chroma home to give it a try. It is abit on the large side, but after gripping it like in this video it feels comfortable enough. Not perfect, but good enough. It is also better balanced as the G900 as far as weight is concerned.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ColinMacLaren*
> 
> Until now I was using a Razer Diamondback Chroma. I love the shape and the buttons, it's great for flick shots, instagib or RTS games, but I tend to overshoot a lot if I am to follow someone with my crosshair when using an SMG, lightning or similar. Also, the sensor sucks.
> 
> My aiming noticaeable improved with the G900 over the Diamondback.
> 
> However, my hand really starts to hurt when using the G900. The main buttons are too high. Playing a RTS where I click a lot tires me out within minutes. Also due to the back-heavy weight distribution and the wide back but narrow front my fingters tend to cramp up around the mouse since there is no place to firmly grip it. Futhermore I am missing rubber coating like its found on Razer mice.
> 
> I can somewhat lessen the fatigue to my hand when switching from fingertip to claw grip and/or using a wrist rest, especially when click-spamming. Still this is not optimal. How does the sensor compare to the Avago 3989 in the Deathadder Chroma or the widely used 3310?


By looking at that picture I feel like the ZA11 or FK1+ is going to suit you, just not sure If you'll like the Zowie buttons.

A deathadder could also be an option, imo the deathadder sensor is still the best sensor I've ever tried on a mouse, I don't know why but I just feel like it's great compared to other mice.

Rival 300 is also one of the best shapes I've had my hand on, alongside the ec2-a, but they are both strong ergonomic, not sure how they will be for a strong claw grip (I use a relaxed/adaptive claw grip)


----------



## ColinMacLaren

No this is not my normal grip, this is the one the G900 is forcing me to. Normally I fingertip. The Rival 300 does not really fit that grip style either. If t was only about shape the Rival 100 would suit me perfectly, but it has an outdated sensor. I am now trying the Death Adder, gripping it like this


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ColinMacLaren*
> 
> No this is not my normal grip, this is the one the G900 is forcing me to. Normally I fingertip. The Rival 300 does not really fit that grip style either. If t was only about shape the Rival 100 would suit me perfectly, but it has an outdated sensor. I am now trying the Death Adder, gripping it like this


The sensor on Rival 100 works just fine and it can handle pretty good speed. Lift off distance is around 2 CD's which ain't that bad actually and you can get used to it pretty quickly. Most stable on 500 DPI though... but if you're a low sens gamer then that probably won't be a problem. Although my hands are small/average 18cm/9cm I can fingertip EC2-A and Rival 100 just fine. Fingertipping EC2-A feels a bit more comfortable.. since I can keep my fingers pretty straight where as with Rival 100 I gotta curl my pinky a bit.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

I play high sense 1200-1800 dpi. Best shape so far is the Diamondback. Maybe I am just keeping this one, despite the Phillips sensor.


----------



## Bucake

i'm looking for non-MMO wireless mice with high cpi (5000+).
doesn't matter if there's smoothing, and it also doesn't matter if it's laser..
so far i have:

Logitech G700(s)
Logitech G900
Steelseries Sensei
Razer Ouroboros
Razer Mamba
Mad Catz R.A.T. 9


----------



## ColinMacLaren

If the shape suits you and you hae the money, go with the G900. It is technically the best mouse on the market today.


----------



## Trippy

Looking for a replacement for my broken Deathadder since out of all the mice I have it's my favourite (2x G303, FK1, Abyssus, Sensei, Deathadder 2013 & 3.5g). I'm not really sure I want to buy another Deathadder because my last one got the double click issue. I would replace it with a EC1-A but I can't find any still being sold at a reasonable price in my area. I just want something with a similar size,shape, and a good sensor.


----------



## Bucake

in stead of buying a new mouse, fix or replace the switch. much cheaper. and it's a waste to move away from your favorite mouse


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> in stead of buying a new mouse, fix or replace the switch. much cheaper. and it's a waste to move away from your favorite mouse


Wise words there Bukkie







.

If you love the shape and are use to your current mouse then why not replace the broken switches and have your input device working again as expected.

The down side of buying a NEW mouse is that there is a huge getting to know you time, in which you will either flee or stay with that new purchase and you will always make comparisons with your previous mouse that you have grown to love







.


----------



## munchzilla

if I like the shape/size of the Zowie ZA13 a lot...
is there any mouse that is as good sensor-wise but with less stiff clicks, and at least as good scroll wheel, with similar shape/size?

I feel like I am SOL here. G900 is too tall in the front, and a little long and narrow.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> if I like the shape/size of the Zowie ZA13 a lot...
> is there any mouse that is as good sensor-wise but with less stiff clicks, and at least as good scroll wheel, with similar shape/size?
> 
> I feel like I am SOL here. G900 is too tall in the front, and a little long and narrow.


G303 is quite close imo, except for the bottom where they screwed up but if you can look past that you might find it comfortable.

Might look at the Roccat KPM, haven't tried it myself personally though.

There just isn't that many smaller mice with good sensors which is a shame.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> G303 is quite close imo, except for the bottom where they screwed up but if you can look past that you might find it comfortable.
> 
> Might look at the Roccat KPM, haven't tried it myself personally though.
> 
> There just isn't that many smaller mice with good sensors which is a shame.


yeah tried both, KPM is not at all like it unfortunately.
G303 is too flat on the top, no curves at all so the right side just digs right into my palm








I have both...


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> yeah tried both, KPM is not at all like it unfortunately.
> G303 is too flat on the top, no curves at all so the right side just digs right into my palm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have both...


After having played a tons with the ZA13 I definitely feel the buttons are way easier to click than the first day I got it, I think the shell loose up with use, if you like the shape a lot you should just look past the buttons and try to get used to it, eventually you won't notice it anymore.


----------



## pyurple

I've been using an EC1 eVo for a few years and the crappy rubber coating is peeling everywhere and looks like a complete mess. What is out there on the market right now that is similar and doesn't have this nasty coating?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyurple*
> 
> I've been using an EC1 eVo for a few years and the crappy rubber coating is peeling everywhere and looks like a complete mess. What is out there on the market right now that is similar and doesn't have this nasty coating?


The new EC1-A have different coating. And 3310 sensor.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> in stead of buying a new mouse, fix or replace the switch. much cheaper. and it's a waste to move away from your favorite mouse


Is there a guide anywhere for replacing switches? Would I have to desolder and solder new switches on because I suck at soldering.


----------



## Bucake

for replacing yes, you would need to (de)solder.
for fixing a switch that looks like *this*, you can try to fit something thin, like a toothpick, under the switch. if it fits, you can push one of the tabs outward to pop it open.
alternatively, you can put something vertically in-between the two parts and pop it open by rotating the tool a bit.

i've never soldered in my life, so i can't help you there.
*this* is probably a good place to start.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> Is there a guide anywhere for replacing switches? Would I have to desolder and solder new switches on because I suck at soldering.


A good method, shown in thunda's guide, is to put on a lot of solder to the point where it's covering all 3 pins (thunda's pics, not mine


http://imgur.com/Suq9L

). All you need to do then is to touch the tip of the iron to the big blob of solder and the heat will be transferred through to all 3 pins, making it super easy to remove the switch with a pair of pliers.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> After having played a tons with the ZA13 I definitely feel the buttons are way easier to click than the first day I got it, I think the shell loose up with use, if you like the shape a lot you should just look past the buttons and try to get used to it, eventually you won't notice it anymore.


yeah I was considering that... but not sure.
does yours have any wiggle room in the buttons? like can you move them a little vertically? I am asking because if that's the case, I can try and find a used ZA13 and put JP omrons in it. they actuate earlier so it'll be less pre-travel from the shell.


----------



## samxkim

What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip Hybrid
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? Not a priority
What games do you play? CS:GO, Overwatch, sometimes League of Legends
Do you mind about prediction? Would not like prediction
Other relevant information:
Currently using a G303
Hand Size: 17.78cm base to tip, 6.985 cm wide
Input anything else you want. Omron Switches, Low LOD


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> yeah I was considering that... but not sure.
> does yours have any wiggle room in the buttons? like can you move them a little vertically? I am asking because if that's the case, I can try and find a used ZA13 and put JP omrons in it. they actuate earlier so it'll be less pre-travel from the shell.


Not sure if I understood correctly, buttons seems quite intact. Although I just tried to spam click them alongside a g303 and it's definitely feeling much more easy to click than I remember it.

I think you should just click abuse it for a while until the shell loosen up.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Not sure if I understood correctly, buttons seems quite intact. Although I just tried to spam click them alongside a g303 and it's definitely feeling much more easy to click than I remember it.
> 
> I think you should just click abuse it for a while until the shell loosen up.


hmm, so there's no room to wiggle it upwards a little bit? shell tension is too high?









spam click or not, I mean... it's stiffer than G303 right... which is kind of upper limit of how stiff I like it.


----------



## cyfer

Hello,

I'm looking for a nice mouse. The middle click of my 8 months old Mionix Naos 7000 only works sporadically and I'm looking to get a refund.
Quote:


> What's your grip style?


Palm/claw hyrid
Quote:


> What's your sensitivity?


3200 DPI
Quote:


> What's your maximum budget?


60€
Quote:


> Do you want additional buttons?


Thumb buttons are a must!
Quote:


> What games do you play?


Overwatch, LoL, SC2, GW2 -> Very mixed
Absolutely not competitive
Quote:


> Do you mind about prediction?


Kinda, I want a "pure" sensor
Quote:


> Other relevant information:


I'm in Germany. Zowie mice are hardly available currently.
I use cloth pads (currently QCK)
My hands are big
Quote:


> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


I strongly prefer a mouse which works well out of the box and doesn't need driver tweaks.

Also, the design shouldn't be too childish. Plus, I hate glossy plastic. So that means the current Logitech lineup is out of the question.

Currently considering:

Xornet 2: Looks good from the technical side, but I'm afraid it might just be too small for my big hands. I am used to bigger mice.

Sharkoon Fire Glider Optical: supposed to be a decent cheap mouse, but maybe too cheap?

Kone Pure Military: heard bad things about Roccat QC


----------



## killeraxemannic

G602 ---> G900 worth it for overwatch?

I followed 



 guide yesterday for setting up your mouse and I found I was still having a hard time keeping on aim even after I went through the process. Seems like the G602 is a bit choppy for some reason. It's much improved when you flip it to 500hz but its still there. Seems like the 602 was not made for shooters and was more intended for the moba RPG crowd with all it's buttons. Makes sense because I was religiously playing SWTOR when I bought it







. Not replacing it per say just thinking about Getting a good FPS mouse and keeping my already good RPG mouse.

What's your grip style? Light palm. I don't smash the mouse to my palm like some people but I tend to keep my palm lightly touching and squeeze the mouse with my thumb, ring, and pinky
What's your sensitivity? 800-1000
What's your maximum budget? NA
Do you want additional buttons? Would like at least 2
What games do you play? Overwatch, CS:GO Have the 602 for RPG's
Do you mind about prediction? Prediction is the devil
Other relevant information: Wait I take that back. Wires are the devil. Prediction is just one of the devil's demons.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> G602 ---> G900 worth it for overwatch?
> 
> I followed
> 
> 
> 
> guide yesterday for setting up your mouse and I found I was still having a hard time keeping on aim even after I went through the process. Seems like the G602 is a bit choppy for some reason. It's much improved when you flip it to 500hz but its still there. Seems like the 602 was not made for shooters and was more intended for the moba RPG crowd with all it's buttons. Makes sense because I was religiously playing SWTOR when I bought it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Not replacing it per say just thinking about Getting a good FPS mouse and keeping my already good RPG mouse.
> 
> What's your grip style? Light palm. I don't smash the mouse to my palm like some people but I tend to keep my palm lightly touching and squeeze the mouse with my thumb, ring, and pinky
> What's your sensitivity? 800-1000
> What's your maximum budget? NA
> Do you want additional buttons? Would like at least 2
> What games do you play? Overwatch, CS:GO Have the 602 for RPG's
> Do you mind about prediction? Prediction is the devil
> Other relevant information: Wait I take that back. Wires are the devil. Prediction is just one of the devil's demons.


Short answer: yes

Long answer: yes if you like the shape


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> hmm, so there's no room to wiggle it upwards a little bit? shell tension is too high?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spam click or not, I mean... it's stiffer than G303 right... which is kind of upper limit of how stiff I like it.


I mean if I put my finger inbetween I can move it up, but at this point I almost feel like I'm breaking them, so didn't really test too much, wouldn't want to put some permanent gap in there or something.

As for the buttons, again, they are quite soft to click and I can spam click them fast, I can almost not tell any difference between it and other mice.. except for the fact that a G303 you do feel that you're pressing buttons, where the ZA buttons are a one piece with the shell... but as I remember it before I used to hate it on a lot... first time I got it I thought it was unplayable, I hated the buttons, but right now they don't bother me at all, so I'm assuming they got loose with time/use.

My main mouse right now is the deathadder too, which has soft buttons, so when I try to click the ZA13 and if the buttons were too stiff I would have noticed immediately coming from a deathadder, but right now I can't really tell that much of a difference other than the obvious shell when I rest my finger, but in terms of clicking, it doesn't require any efforts..

Of course it's always going to feel different when clicking because of the huano feedback/sound they make, but I don't feel any resistance when I click, I don't get tired spam clicking them as I used to do in the past. I'm pretty sure this has gotten loose with time/use, it definitely wasn't like this in the past.. but then again I've had this for MONTHS, so I don't really know how long it's going to take to loose the shell up... It's all the shell tbh, not the switches.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> I mean if I put my finger inbetween I can move it up, but at this point I almost feel like I'm breaking them, so didn't really test too much, wouldn't want to put some permanent gap in there or something.
> 
> As for the buttons, again, they are quite soft to click and I can spam click them fast, I can almost not tell any difference between it and other mice.. except for the fact that a G303 you do feel that you're pressing buttons, where the ZA buttons are a one piece with the shell... but as I remember it before I used to hate it on a lot... first time I got it I thought it was unplayable, I hated the buttons, but right now they don't bother me at all, so I'm assuming they got loose with time/use.
> 
> My main mouse right now is the deathadder too, which has soft buttons, so when I try to click the ZA13 and if the buttons were too stiff I would have noticed immediately coming from a deathadder, but right now I can't really tell that much of a difference other than the obvious shell when I rest my finger, but in terms of clicking, it doesn't require any efforts..
> 
> Of course it's always going to feel different when clicking because of the huano feedback/sound they make, but I don't feel any resistance when I click, I don't get tired spam clicking them as I used to do in the past. I'm pretty sure this has gotten loose with time/use, it definitely wasn't like this in the past.. but then again I've had this for MONTHS, so I don't really know how long it's going to take to loose the shell up... It's all the shell tbh, not the switches.


yeah I understand, this is such a tough decision - mouse costs $95 here in Canada - before taxes... kinda sucks.

I would jump on it to try for myself if I could find a used one but I don't even know where to look


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> yeah I understand, this is such a tough decision - mouse costs $95 here in Canada - before taxes... kinda sucks.
> 
> I would jump on it to try for myself if I could find a used one but I don't even know where to look


Jesus, that's like the price of a rival 700 here.. Why is it that expensive?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Jesus, that's like the price of a rival 700 here.. Why is it that expensive?


I think it's because Canadian shops import from the US, and the CAD is really weak right now relative to the USD









but yeah, it's just a bit much for me, considering the price of the G900 that I don't even really like the shape of :|


----------



## ColinMacLaren

What do you guys think about the Roccat Kova 2016? I like the shape, overall build quality is a bit plasticky though and I cannot find any decent info on the sensor.


----------



## Bucake

edit: looks like the 3320 indeed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuhla*
> 
> I sent an email to support asking what sensor is in the Kova (with a link to the product page for the new one hopefully to avoid confusion) and got a reply that it is the 3320.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

According to this thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1576310/new-roccat-mice-kova-kiro-2015 it's a Pixart 3320. It did have some issues, but they are supposedly fixed in newer firmwares.


----------



## ddd4175

1. What's you grip style? - Fingertip grip
2. What's your sensitivity? - 800 dpi
3. Budget - $40-$60
4. 1-2 additional buttons
5. Games I play - Overwatch, Dota 2, Guild Wars 2
6. Prediction - I do
7. Other - I have pretty big hands 19.5cm/10cm, and going to transition from G502
- Very very hard to find retailers of the lesser known mice (Zowie, Mionix, FM, DM)


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ddd4175*
> 
> 1. What's you grip style? - Fingertip grip
> 2. What's your sensitivity? - 800 dpi
> 3. Budget - $40-$60
> 4. 1-2 additional buttons
> 5. Games I play - Overwatch, Dota 2, Guild Wars 2
> 6. Prediction - I do
> 7. Other - I have pretty big hands 19.5cm/10cm, and going to transition from G502
> - Very very hard to find retailers of the lesser known mice (Zowie, Mionix, FM, DM)


Deathadder Chroma gets my vote.


----------



## Rynji

What's your grip style? - Fingertap/Claw
What's your sensitivity? - 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? - 80 euro's
Do you want additional buttons? - MB4-5 required and possibly a DPI switch for certain games (Battlefield flying).
What games do you play? - CSGO, Overwatch, Battlefield, Dota 2
Do you mind about prediction? - I do mind
Other relevant information - I would like a RGB mouse, ambidextrous. Right now I have the Kana V2 and it is perfect. I'm just sad there is no equivalent with RGB options. I know about the Logitech G303 but I think it looks hideous! Also have the Rival 100, but it's unusable at 1000DPI and above and that is already too high for me, 500 is too low (used to 800).
If there are no mice out there, then I'll happily stick to my Kana V2.
If only Razer had put a decent sensor inside the new Diamondback...


----------



## prophetd7

What's your grip style? claw grip
What's your sensitivity? 1000 - 1600 dpi
What's your maximum budget? 40 - 60$
Do you want additional buttons? no, but i would not mind if there are few of them
What games do you play? rts games
Do you mind about prediction? no
Other relevant information: wireless


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prophetd7*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? claw grip
> What's your sensitivity? 1000 - 1600 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? 40 - 60$
> Do you want additional buttons? no, but i would not mind if there are few of them
> What games do you play? rts games
> Do you mind about prediction? no
> Other relevant information: wireless


Check out the G602 I used one for quite a while. Great wireless mouse due to the extra long battery life and still does pretty good tracking. It also has quite a few buttons to play with


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Check out the G602 I used one for quite a while. Great wireless mouse due to the extra long battery life and still does pretty good tracking. It also has quite a few buttons to play with


I think G602 too, if you can find one in your budget.
it's one of the least crappy wireless mice- G900 being just silly good


----------



## JustMagic

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 1000dpi (if the mouse has presets and no software lower sens fits me as it can be adjusted in game)
What's your maximum budget? 100$.
Do you want additional buttons? Not really but a few would be nice.
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? I don't want any prediction
Other relevant information: I have so far been using corsair vengeance M65 and it fits in my hand pretty much perfectly although I don't want corsair products that much anymore because the mouse started having problems only after a year.


----------



## causese1990

What's your grip style? *palm grip*
What's your sensitivity? *my dpi is set to 1800 (razer synapse) and in overwatch my sensitivity is set to 9*
What's your maximum budget? *80€, more if it's worth*
Do you want additional buttons? *2 buttons on the left, similar/equal to razer deathadder 2013*. buttons should be about the same size, i like the feel of it.
What games do you play? *mainly world of warcraft and overwatch*
Do you mind about prediction? *no prediction!*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*It should have 1k hz polling rate*

i just want something similar to deathadder 2013 but in better quality. I've had many deathadders and all suffered from a broken middle mouse button. Mouse feet was also detaching but I think that's on me


----------



## JazzDeath

What's your grip style? Fingertip Grip
What's your sensitivity? Between 3000 and 5000 dpi (depending on resolution)
What's your maximum budget? Preferably around 100 canadian, max up to 150 CAD
Do you want additional buttons? Optimally I would want at least 6 customisable buttons reachable from the left hand side of the mouse, a plus if they're mechanical
What games do you play? Dota 2, FFXIV, Grim Dawn, Diablo, Starcraft 2, Unreal Tournament
Do you mind about prediction? Would prefer without
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

My hand size is 20.5 by 11.5 cms, so rather large.
A good weight system would be wonderful.
I tend to prefer a heavy mouse because it allows me better precision for high DPI settings and allows me to use my wrist and fingertips exclusively.
I would prefer a high quality precise optical sensor that performs equally across all DPI levels.
1000 hz polling rate would be great, 500 minimum.
Not wireless unless it's the g900 which I can't afford.
Cord braiding is irrelevant; if at all possible, removable cable from mouse would be a great feature.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *causese1990*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *palm grip*
> What's your sensitivity? *my dpi is set to 1800 (razer synapse) and in overwatch my sensitivity is set to 9*
> What's your maximum budget? *80€, more if it's worth*
> Do you want additional buttons? *2 buttons on the left, similar/equal to razer deathadder 2013*. buttons should be about the same size, i like the feel of it.
> What games do you play? *mainly world of warcraft and overwatch*
> Do you mind about prediction? *no prediction!*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> *It should have 1k hz polling rate*
> 
> i just want something similar to deathadder 2013 but in better quality. I've had many deathadders and all suffered from a broken middle mouse button. Mouse feet was also detaching but I think that's on me


Zowie EC1-A, FinalMouse Ergo 2016, Fnatic Flick G1.


----------



## TheBoonie

What's your grip style? *3 finger claw*
What's your sensitivity? *2500-3000dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *$60+-*
Do you want additional buttons? *None*
What games do you play? *Competitive FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? *No Prediction*
Other relevant information: *Must have mechanical scroll wheel decoder, really low (next to none would be amazing) lift off distance, no rubber coating. I am fine with modifying a WMO and swapping different internals into it (soldering and cutting are ok too). I would actually prefer to modify a WMO and swap internals. Currently I have a Ninox aurora, it has pretty high lift off distance (even with the tape mod), sometimes it has some pretty bad malfunction (if it didn't, i would have swapped it into the WMO body).*


----------



## Bucake

that tape "fix" is probably what causes the low malfunction speed


----------



## TheBoonie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> that tape "fix" is probably what causes the low malfunction speed


With or without the tape it has malfunction.


----------



## Bucake

change surface? 3090 has a high malfunction speed that you are not likely to ever hit, i reached ~4.5m/s without it malfunctioning


----------



## killeraxemannic

I have a question.... I have a problem I think! Hahaha I have now bought a G900, A KPM, A DA Chroma and am waiting on the Nixeus Revel... Just want to test lots of mice and different sensors to see what I end up linking the best, and some of them are so cheap I can't pass them up!

Anyways.... Seems like the Death Adder Chroma has an issue with my work desk. Sometimes the mouse cursor will get stuck in place if I have my DPI set around 1600... Higher or lower it's fine. I tried surface calibration but that isn't helping. Seems like it's fine on a mousepad but it seems like it's strange it has trouble tracking on a surface every other mouse has worked fine on. Is this normal with the DA or should I go exchange it? I bought it at BestBuy so exchanging it wouldn't be a big deal. Thinking about returning it all together just because it seems like it's not better than the KPM or the G900 in any way.


----------



## RealityBoost

So I'm having quite the headache about my mouse, which I hope you guys can help me with.









I've been for the past 3 months using the Rival 300 which I really like. However, sometimes I notice that the sensor spazzes out (though not often and not by much so not the "biggest" deal). I'm considering going to the store tomorrow and turn it in for my warranty so I get a new mouse. Easiest solution would be just to take a new Rival 300, but I'm also considering the option to switch for something new. So here's the deal: what should I get? To make it easier for you guys to help me, here's what I've used as far as I remember and in that order:


Roccat Kone (Laser, was long ago but I "think" I liked it, scroll wheel broke)
Mionix Naos (Laser, also liked it, used it for a long time)
Razer Deathadder 2013 (Liked it as well, felt good to use, etc. Gave it to my brother who needed a new mouse)
Zowie FK1 (Old, yellow FK1 with Huano switches, kinda liked it but I got cramp from it because of the shape. Gave it to a friend)
Steelseries Rival 300 (Love the shape albeit a tad bit too long, also SSE3 is my favourite software for a mouse as of yet)

So as you can see, I usually prefer larger, ergonomic mice over ambidextrous, smaller mices. I've been checking the forums and while Nixeus Revel looks nice I'm unsure about the shape since it kinda reminds me of the FK1 (almost the same measurements which rings a few warning bells in my head, atleast for me). At the moment I'm eyeing the Rival 700 (Yes, I know) the most because of the 3360 sensor and the shorter Rival 300 shape. I've also heard about the Zowie EC1-A (the new BenQ edition) which I used at a friend's apartment but I disliked the scroll wheel. Logitech seem to have some solid options but I kinda dislike the spaceship design that they usually have. So, are there any other mouses that I could consider that would fit my requirements, which is a right-handed ergonomic mouse?

Appreciate any help that I can get with this!


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealityBoost*
> 
> So I'm having quite the headache about my mouse, which I hope you guys can help me with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been for the past 3 months using the Rival 300 which I really like. However, sometimes I notice that the sensor spazzes out (not often and not by much tho' so not the "biggest" deal). I'm considering going to the store tomorrow and turn it in for my warranty so I get a new mouse. Easiest solution would be just to take a new Rival 300, but I'm also considering the option to switch for something new. So here's the deal: what should I get? To make it easier for you guys to help me, here's what I've used as far as I remember and in that order:
> 
> 
> Roccat Kone (Was long ago but I "think" I liked it, scroll wheel broke)
> Mionix Naos (Also liked it, used it for a long time)
> Razer Deathadder 2013 (Liked it as well, felt good to use, etc. Gave it to my brother who needed a new mouse)
> Zowie FK1 (Old, yellow FK1 with Huano switches, kinda liked it but I got cramp from it because of the shape. Gave it to a friend)
> Rival 300 (Love the shape albeit a tad bit too long, also SSE3 is my favourite software for a mouse as of yet)
> 
> So as you can see, I usually prefer larger, ergonomic mice over ambidextrous, smaller mices. But now, I'm clueless what to get. I've been checking the forums and while Nixeus Revel looks nice I'm unsure about the shape since it kinda reminds me of the FK1 (almost the same measurements which rings a few warning bells in my head, atleast for me). At the moment I'm eyeing the Rival 700 (Yes, I know) the most because of the 3360 sensor and the shorter Rival 300 shape. I've also heard about the Zowie EC1-A (the new BenQ edition) which I used at a friend's apartment but I disliked the scroll wheel. So, are there any other mouses that I could consider that would fit my requirements, which is a right-handed ergonomic mouse?
> 
> Appreciate any help that I can get with this!


CM Storm Alcor? ~85g, I think. Older 3090 sensor. High lift-off distance. Apparently best with firmware 1.2.0 which has steps of 800, 1600, 3200 and 4000. No software. Only 1000Hz or 125Hz, depending on the firmware.

If you're fine with the weight, the 700 might be your best fit seeing as you'd prefer the 300 to be slightly shorter.

Mr. Phiz might be able to give you some info on the 700


----------



## RealityBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> CM Storm Alcor? ~85g, I think. Older 3090 sensor. High lift-off distance. Apparently best with firmware 1.2.0 which has steps of 800, 1600, 3200 and 4000. No software. Only 1000Hz or 125Hz, depending on the firmware.
> 
> If you're fine with the weight, the 700 might be your best fit seeing as you'd prefer the 300 to be slightly shorter.
> 
> Mr. Phiz might be able to give you some info on the 700


Thanks for the tip! CM Storm Alcor looks neat, but there's no swedish store that currently has it in stock. It kinda leans against the Rival 700 at the moment, but I just noticed that the Mionix Naos 7000 (with the 3310 sensor) is currently at sale for approximately 35€. I will try the Rival 700 out tomorrow since they have it on display at the store I'm going to so I can get a feel for it then.

EDIT: Noticed that Naos 7000 has a bit of negative acceleration so I will probably skip it.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealityBoost*
> 
> Thanks for the tip! CM Storm Alcor looks neat, but there's no swedish store that currently has it in stock. It kinda leans against the Rival 700 at the moment, but I just noticed that the Mionix Naos 7000 (with the 3310 sensor) is currently at sale for approximately 35€. I will try the Rival 700 out tomorrow since they have it on display at the store I'm going to so I can get a feel for it then.
> 
> EDIT: Noticed that Naos 7000 has a bit of negative acceleration so I will probably skip it.


technically most 3310 mice (if not all?) have a bit of invariance (neg/pos accel), but not much at all. so it really depends, if the Rival was fine, Naos will probably be better.


----------



## RealityBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> technically most 3310 mice (if not all?) have a bit of invariance (neg/pos accel), but not much at all. so it really depends, if the Rival was fine, Naos will probably be better.


Huh! Did not know that! Might as well try the Naos since it's so cheap at the moment. I shall consider both the Naos 7000 and the Rival 700 then! Any other options I should look into?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealityBoost*
> 
> Huh! Did not know that! Might as well try the Naos since it's so cheap at the moment. I shall consider both the Naos 7000 and the Rival 700 then! Any other options I should look into?


Gigabyte XM300 and CM Sentinel 3 are great options too, though I haven't used either long term and I heard the firmware can be a little tricky with the XM300- perhaps read up about it in the thread here on OCN.
the scroll wheel on EC1-A is indeed not the best, but it seems to vary from unit to unit or perhaps how worn out it is. my EC2-A had a decent wheel, but not great - Logitech and Roccat wheels are a million times better IME









Rival 700 has this weird square'y design, very uncomfortable for palming for me - but if you can try it out, please do. it just seems incredibly expensive and not really all that good


----------



## RevanCorana

If you dont want to waste your money, focus on shape rather than sensor... you know, some people win tournaments with 10 years old potatoes because they feel nice, not because they have 300 m/s top speed nonsense.

Also, the Rival 700 is too feature heavy I think (vibration, oled screen all useless ingame) this is all pretty much uselesss and makes it too heavy to move around and lift.

Consider the G402, it's the best ergo shape ever made at least for my hand.

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g402-hyperion-fury-fps-gaming-mouse


----------



## djdelarosa25

G100s vs Rival 100 sensor?


----------



## djdelarosa25

What's your grip style? Hybrid palm/claw
What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? $20-$25
Do you want additional buttons? Not really
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Yes
Other relevant information: Ambidextrous


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid palm/claw
> What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? $20-$25
> Do you want additional buttons? Not really
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> Other relevant information: Ambidextrous


Logitech G100s - though 1000dpi without drivers IIRC.


----------



## djdelarosa25

I found a Steelseries Rival 100 PC Bang Edition for the same price as the G100s. Should I go for it?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> I found a Steelseries Rival 100 PC Bang Edition for the same price as the G100s. Should I go for it?


Why not? Go for it and see what it's all about.

No point in reading up about it because nothing is as real as having it in your hands to use as you see fit.


----------



## kevin-L

So, I'm looking for a replacement for the g400s with a modern sensor. I'm not sure that one exists right now, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. I've used the mx518 or the g400s for most of my gaming career. I've tried a bunch of mice that I was hoping could serve me as well or better than the g400s, but all of them fall short in one way or another. I've used:

g502 - way too heavy for my aim style
g303 - awkward shape causes numbness and pain in my fingers
mionix naos 7000 - click latency was high and I couldn't grip it well, just not a good shape for me
Zowie ec1-a - a bit too big, I couldn't grip it well due to the rounded edge on the right side, and the mouse feet got super slow after only a week of use
Roccat Kone Pure Military - something just felt off with my aim, and it was ever so slightly too narrow for me. I think the sensor position was messing me up or I just didn't like that 3310 implementation. Even though it was the closest in shape to a g400s, my ability to aim and track targets was worse than the other 3310 mice i tried

I really like the sensor feel of the 3366, and using a g303 until the point where I had to stop or risk injuring my hand spoiled me to the point where I'm getting annoyed at how imprecise the g400s feels, and the high LOD. Does something with the shape and feel of a g400s and a 3360 exist?


----------



## TheBoonie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> change surface? 3090 has a high malfunction speed that you are not likely to ever hit, i reached ~4.5m/s without it malfunctioning


I'll try changing the surface, see if that changes anything. I'm also experiencing a weird jitter sometimes. When the mouse is not moving the cursor moves around a bit, could this be a surface problem also (I'm currently using a Razer Sphex pad).


----------



## geForZ

Hey guys, I used to be here ages ago but that account is long gone. I'm looking for a new mouse, which is why I'm here, obviously. I'm not too up on my computer accessories so when my Intellimouse got run over by a car (long story) I bought a G402 just because that's what some of my friends were using. I didn't like it that much, so I boxed it and bought an Asus Sica... BIG mistake, the click lag was like 30ms and that was way too much. I dug out my old G402 and I've been using it until it broke, which happened today. New mouse time!

My gripstyle is pure fingertip unless I'm AWPing, then it's fingertip with me resting my hand on my G440 hard pad and about 15% of the bottom of my thumb on the mouse.
I use 400dpi with 2.3 sensitivity.
Max budget is about $120 Canadian.
I'd like 2 extra buttons and a clickable scrollwheel for smokes, flashes and my knife respectively.
I only play CS:GO and Hearthstone at the moment, but I play other games on occasion such as WoW.
Prediction is a no-go.
I'd like for it to be ambidextrous, that's what bothers me most about the G402. I hate ergo mice. The G402 was a bit heavy, but the Asus Sica was just the right weight. Lighter clicks are a plus, and wired is a must.
Thanks for the help in advance guys, I'm really ignorant about peripherals ATM.


----------



## RealityBoost

Thanks for the advice guys! They didn't have any of the mouses that you guys suggested in stock at the store so I jumped the shark and got the Rival 700. It's heavy, that's for sure, but I play really well with it (probably better than I did with the RIval 300). Will try it out more tomorrow to see if I will keep it or not.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Hey guys, I used to be here ages ago but that account is long gone. I'm looking for a new mouse, which is why I'm here, obviously. I'm not too up on my computer accessories so when my Intellimouse got run over by a car (long story) I bought a G402 just because that's what some of my friends were using. I didn't like it that much, so I boxed it and bought an Asus Sica... BIG mistake, the click lag was like 30ms and that was way too much. I dug out my old G402 and I've been using it until it broke, which happened today. New mouse time!
> 
> My gripstyle is pure fingertip unless I'm AWPing, then it's fingertip with me resting my hand on my G440 hard pad and about 15% of the bottom of my thumb on the mouse.
> I use 400dpi with 2.3 sensitivity.
> Max budget is about $120 Canadian.
> I'd like 2 extra buttons and a clickable scrollwheel for smokes, flashes and my knife respectively.
> I only play CS:GO and Hearthstone at the moment, but I play other games on occasion such as WoW.
> Prediction is a no-go.
> I'd like for it to be ambidextrous, that's what bothers me most about the G402. I hate ergo mice. The G402 was a bit heavy, but the Asus Sica was just the right weight. Lighter clicks are a plus, and wired is a must.
> Thanks for the help in advance guys, I'm really ignorant about peripherals ATM.


might want to hold out and see if Logitech is releasing anything this weekend! they are in the process of making a lightweight ambidextrous mouse with The Best Internals (TM).


----------



## geForZ

Ah, thanks a lot! I like the sound of that, so I'll hold out until they announce what it is.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevin-L*
> 
> So, I'm looking for a replacement for the g400s with a modern sensor. I'm not sure that one exists right now, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. I've used the mx518 or the g400s for most of my gaming career. I've tried a bunch of mice that I was hoping could serve me as well or better than the g400s, but all of them fall short in one way or another. I've used:
> 
> g502 - way too heavy for my aim style
> g303 - awkward shape causes numbness and pain in my fingers
> mionix naos 7000 - click latency was high and I couldn't grip it well, just not a good shape for me
> Zowie ec1-a - a bit too big, I couldn't grip it well due to the rounded edge on the right side, and the mouse feet got super slow after only a week of use
> Roccat Kone Pure Military - something just felt off with my aim, and it was ever so slightly too narrow for me. I think the sensor position was messing me up or I just didn't like that 3310 implementation. Even though it was the closest in shape to a g400s, my ability to aim and track targets was worse than the other 3310 mice i tried
> 
> I really like the sensor feel of the 3366, and using a g303 until the point where I had to stop or risk injuring my hand spoiled me to the point where I'm getting annoyed at how imprecise the g400s feels, and the high LOD. Does something with the shape and feel of a g400s and a 3360 exist?


The G402 is the only vaguely similar shape, I think. If you're fine with ambidextrous shapes then I'd recommend waiting to see what the mystery mouse from Logitech is.


----------



## Priest

What's your grip style? - Finger Tip/Palm Depending on if I am playing something competitive or something turn-based.

What's your sensitivity? 800-1600

What's your maximum budget? $100

Do you want additional buttons? Yes, I want at least two buttons next to the left click, and 2 or preferably 3 on the thumb.

What games do you play? CS:GO, Overwatch, LoL, and various other slower strategy games

Do you mind about prediction? I don't want any acceleration/prediction, etc.


----------



## kris12997

What's your grip style? Hybrid Palm/Claw 18cm by 9cm Hand size
What's your sensitivity? ~1000 edpi
What's your maximum budget? I'll play whatever for something that is comfortable
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons is a must
What games do you play? CS:GO, Overwatch
Do you mind about prediction? Yes
Other relevant information:
Previous mice were a Roccat Lua (a bit too small for my liking, also no side buttons, otherwise a decent mouse for me, the last one that didn't give he pains in my hand anyway), a Razer Deathadder Chroma (excellent sensor but the thumb inlet/ergo was too aggressive for me and forced my hand to go a bit sideways onto the mouse) and a Steelseries Rival 300 (A bit too long for me).


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Hey guys, I used to be here ages ago but that account is long gone. I'm looking for a new mouse, which is why I'm here, obviously. I'm not too up on my computer accessories so when my Intellimouse got run over by a car (long story) I bought a G402 just because that's what some of my friends were using. I didn't like it that much, so I boxed it and bought an Asus Sica... BIG mistake, the click lag was like 30ms and that was way too much. I dug out my old G402 and I've been using it until it broke, which happened today. New mouse time!
> 
> My gripstyle is pure fingertip unless I'm AWPing, then it's fingertip with me resting my hand on my G440 hard pad and about 15% of the bottom of my thumb on the mouse.
> I use 400dpi with 2.3 sensitivity.
> Max budget is about $120 Canadian.
> I'd like 2 extra buttons and a clickable scrollwheel for smokes, flashes and my knife respectively.
> I only play CS:GO and Hearthstone at the moment, but I play other games on occasion such as WoW.
> Prediction is a no-go.
> I'd like for it to be ambidextrous, that's what bothers me most about the G402. I hate ergo mice. The G402 was a bit heavy, but the Asus Sica was just the right weight. Lighter clicks are a plus, and wired is a must.
> Thanks for the help in advance guys, I'm really ignorant about peripherals ATM.


Okay, so I've looked into this. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 choices, 3 if the new Logitech suits my needs but we'll see. I think my options are either a Razer Diamondback 3G or the new Razer Diamondback. The 3G always tantalized me but I never got one. I figure I could pick one up pretty cheaply considering the age, but I'm having trouble finding any for prices that aren't a joke. The new Razer Diamondback seems to have issues, but I could care less about getting cramps. The performance is all that matters to me. I have heard that it has some sensor inconsistency issues though, anyone care to comment?

I heard a local shop has the new Diamondback on demo mode with Battlefield 1. I might go check out both this weekend.


----------



## djdelarosa25

What's your grip style? Hybrid claw/palm
What's your sensitivity? 400 or 800 cpi
What's your maximum budget? 30 USD
Do you want additional buttons? Not really
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Of course
Other relevant information: I game at 800 cpi 2.2 in-game sens. Hand is 17 cm from wrist to tip of middle finger so I have small hands. Should be ambidextrous


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Okay, so I've looked into this. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 choices, 3 if the new Logitech suits my needs but we'll see. I think my options are either a Razer Diamondback 3G or the new Razer Diamondback. The 3G always tantalized me but I never got one. I figure I could pick one up pretty cheaply considering the age, but I'm having trouble finding any for prices that aren't a joke. The new Razer Diamondback seems to have issues, but I could care less about getting cramps. The performance is all that matters to me. I have heard that it has some sensor inconsistency issues though, anyone care to comment?
> 
> I heard a local shop has the new Diamondback on demo mode with Battlefield 1. I might go check out both this weekend.


the DA 3G had pretty bad scroll wheel IME/IMO. new Razer DA has that lift-off Z-axis issue I think- as with all their 4G? or whichever sensor it was.
kind of a bother for low sensitivity users who lift their mouse a lot.

Logitech one doesn't seem to be released yet








but I would avoid Razer for now unfortunately.


----------



## pstN

1. What's your grip style?

fingertip

2. What's your sensitivity?

about 28cm for 360

3. What's your maximum budget?

doesn't really matter, however not the G900 (I've tried it, I like it but not really better than the g400, so at that price I returned it)

4. Do you want additional buttons?

doesn't matter

5. What games do you play?

MoH:AA (fps game, it's all about aiming), and some cs

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I guess so

7. Other relevant information:

Right handed, and preferably not a mouse that's too small. currently use a G400 (without angle snapping) which still works perfectly, on a QCK heavy so I'm wondering if there are any worthwhile upgrades.

If you're looking for a mousepd too, please try to answer the following questions:

7. Hard or cloth? preferably cloth

8. Rough or smooth? preferably smooth


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pstN*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> fingertip
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> about 28cm for 360
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> doesn't really matter, however not the G900 (I've tried it, I like it but not really better than the g400, so at that price I returned it)
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> doesn't matter
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> MoH:AA (fps game, it's all about aiming), and some cs
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I guess so
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> Right handed, and preferably not a mouse that's too small. currently use a G400 (without angle snapping) which still works perfectly, on a QCK heavy so I'm wondering if there are any worthwhile upgrades.
> 
> If you're looking for a mousepd too, please try to answer the following questions:
> 
> 7. Hard or cloth? preferably cloth
> 
> 8. Rough or smooth? preferably smooth


Many EX-G400 users seem to enjoy the FinalMouse Classic Ergo. Give that one a go


----------



## djdelarosa25

What's your grip style? Hybrid claw/palm
What's your sensitivity? 400 or 800 cpi
What's your maximum budget? 30 USD
Do you want additional buttons? Not really
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? Of course
Other relevant information: I game at 800 cpi 2.2 in-game sens. Hand is 17 cm from wrist to tip of middle finger so I have small hands. Should be ambidextrous


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djdelarosa25*
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid claw/palm
> What's your sensitivity? 400 or 800 cpi
> What's your maximum budget? 30 USD
> Do you want additional buttons? Not really
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? Of course
> Other relevant information: I game at 800 cpi 2.2 in-game sens. Hand is 17 cm from wrist to tip of middle finger so I have small hands. Should be ambidextrous


G100s/G303.


----------



## geForZ

In the end of my mouse journey, I stayed with my ROG Sica. Turns out they fixed a lot of the click lag and it really is almost perfect, apart from 5ms of click lag and being a bit too heavy. The new diamondback just doesn't do it... I also picked up a QcK Mini since I was low on cash and I heard it doesn't track well on a G440 hard pad. Should have used a QcK from the beginning, absolutely fantastic.


----------



## athenatheta

What's your grip style? *Fingertip/Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *I've never used a mouse with DPI settings before, a reasonable DPI range is fine.*
What's your maximum budget? *$40*
Do you want additional buttons? *Needs to have side buttons.*
What games do you play? *A mix of noncompetitive FPS and strategy games: Fallout, Far Cry 4, STALKER, Minecraft, Civ V, Total War, XCOM[B/]
*
Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*
Other relevant information: *I'd prefer a mouse that looks relatively normal (not like a transformer), although looks aren't deal breakers. It shouldn't be too heavy. The sensor should be a decent optical sensor. Driverless and rubberized sides are both nice to have but not required. Build quality should be decent. The g100s would be pretty much perfect for me if only it had two buttons on the side.*


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *athenatheta*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip/Palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *I've never used a mouse with DPI settings before, a reasonable DPI range is fine.*
> What's your maximum budget? *$40*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Needs to have side buttons.*
> What games do you play? *A mix of noncompetitive FPS and strategy games: Fallout, Far Cry 4, STALKER, Minecraft, Civ V, Total War, XCOM[B/]
> *
> Do you mind about prediction? *Yes*
> Other relevant information: *I'd prefer a mouse that looks relatively normal (not like a transformer), although looks aren't deal breakers. It shouldn't be too heavy. The sensor should be a decent optical sensor. Driverless and rubberized sides are both nice to have but not required. Build quality should be decent. The g100s would be pretty much perfect for me if only it had two buttons on the side.*


Rival 100 gets my vote.


----------



## Lass3

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium - 1000-1200 DPI (2560x1440)

3. What's your maximum budget?
100€

4. Do you want additional buttons?
1 or 2 side buttons on left side, *none on right side.*

5. What games do you play?
FPS, RPG

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want prediction.

7. Other relevant information:
Simple dark look. *No flashy lights - unless it can be turned off*.
Good scroll wheel (with precise steps, no loud noises)

*Already tried, and did not like:*
G402 (thumb button ruins it for me)
G502 (slightly too heavy with all weight stripped. Too many buttons. Scrollwheel is shaking and making loud noises when moved fast, tried 3 different ones, all same problem)
Rival 100 (a little too light, only good at 500 dpi which is too low for me - size is good tho)
Mionix Castor (scrollwheel placement feels unnatural and is noisy)
G303 (shape is off, very good scrollwheel tho)


----------



## geForZ

I found this really cool website: http://www.rocketjumpninja.com/

Might help, considering I don't know a whole lot about mice.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lass3*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium - 1000-1200 DPI (2560x1440)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100€
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 1 or 2 side buttons on left side, *none on right side.*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, RPG
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't want prediction.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Simple dark look. *No flashy lights - unless it can be turned off*.
> Good scroll wheel (with precise steps, no loud noises)
> 
> *Already tried, and did not like:*
> G402 (thumb button ruins it for me)
> G502 (slightly too heavy with all weight stripped. Too many buttons. Scrollwheel is shaking and making loud noises when moved fast, tried 3 different ones, all same problem)
> Rival 100 (a little too light, only good at 500 dpi which is too low for me - size is good tho)
> Mionix Castor (scrollwheel placement feels unnatural and is noisy)
> G303 (shape is off, very good scrollwheel tho)


Zowie ZA or FK series.


----------



## Lass3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Zowie ZA or FK series.


Sadly they have buttons on right side. EC2 is good, but the LED kills it for me.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lass3*
> 
> Sadly they have buttons on right side. EC2 is good, but the LED kills it for me.


I've been using the ZA for a year now, I have never noticed the side buttons on the right, they are not in the way at all, specially for a claw gripper. Plus it doesn't have any LED since it's under the mouse, not on the scrollwheel like the EC2.


----------



## KaramU

*What's your grip style?*
Claw grip with my palm resting on the back of the mouse, like this
*What's your sensitivity?*
400 DPI, 2.5 in-game, so medium
*What's your maximum budget?*
100€
*Do you want additional buttons?*
No
*What games do you play?*
CS:GO is my main game
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes
*Other relevant information:*
I use a Steelseries Rival and as you can see from the pic the side rubber is almost gone. I'm looking for a replacement mouse that is a bit smaller. I have 17cm hands and using the Rival with claw grip I still have at least 2cm of empty space on the buttons. I'm also an arm player, so my wrist doesn't even touch the mousepad, I rest the palm of my hand on the mouse itself. I was thinking about Zowie EC2-A. I also used the Deathadder before but the curvy shape on the buttons makes my ring finger stretch in a way that it actually hurts after playing for 5 minutes.

The mouse I get will be paired with a QcK+ or a Benq G-SR, not sure yet.

Thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaramU*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Claw grip with my palm resting on the back of the mouse, like this
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 400 DPI, 2.5 in-game, so medium
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 100€
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> No
> *What games do you play?*
> CS:GO is my main game
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yes
> *Other relevant information:*
> I use a Steelseries Rival and as you can see from the pic the side rubber is almost gone. I'm looking for a replacement mouse that is a bit smaller. I have 17cm hands and using the Rival with claw grip I still have at least 2cm of empty space on the buttons. I'm also an arm player, so my wrist doesn't even touch the mousepad, I rest the palm of my hand on the mouse itself. I was thinking about Zowie EC2-A. I also used the Deathadder before but the curvy shape on the buttons makes my ring finger stretch in a way that it actually hurts after playing for 5 minutes.
> 
> The mouse I get will be paired with a QcK+ or a Benq G-SR, not sure yet.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions!


I think we have the same grip, or almost (


http://imgur.com/5uelfcm

 ) and I also have the rival with 17-18cm hands.

Zowie mice I find to be extremely comfortable is the EC2-A and the ZA series (Id say ZA12). I hated the FK.

I also didn't mind the g303, if you don't mind it either then it's the one with the best sensor, but the EC2-A or ZA is definitely the safest bet for you.


----------



## KaramU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> I think we have the same grip, or almost (
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5uelfcm
> 
> ) and I also have the rival with 17-18cm hands.
> 
> Zowie mice I find to be extremely comfortable is the EC2-A and the ZA series (Id say ZA12). I hated the FK.
> 
> I also didn't mind the g303, if you don't mind it either then it's the one with the best sensor, but the EC2-A or ZA is definitely the safest bet for you.


Thank you for the reply.

I feel like the ZA series would make me want to put my fingers straight instead of curved the way I like, that's why I didn't consider it.
The G303 is the best "mechanical" wise (best sensor, fastest clicks) but it's too much of a risk because of it's shape and I don't think the store I'm buying these allow costumers to return the items after using them, but I'll ask anyway.


----------



## Kirin96

What's your grip style? *80%fingertip 20%palm*
What's your sensitivity? *from 1000 to 1800*
What's your maximum budget? *80 euro*
Do you want additional buttons? *It will be better, at least 1 more*
What games do you play? *All kind but the main use is for fps and moba*
Do you mind about prediction? *I don't want it*
Other relevant information: *I don't want a wireless mouse. I'm using g9 (not the x version) logitech and I love it because it's short 109,8 mm (a rarity), it's quite flat and enought width. On the new one I prefer an optical sensor*


----------



## nicolovbg

*What's your grip style?* Fingertip grip
*What's your sensitivity?* 42 cm/360
*What's your maximum budget?* It is unlimited
*Do you want additional buttons?* It would be great, but I can play without them
*What games do you play?* FPS games
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, I do
*Other relevant information:* I felt in love with the shape of the Razer Mamba TE. But the sensor on it is bad. What I want is the Mamba's shape and an acceptable sensor. Do not recommend DA, please, it is a completely different shape


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Fingertip grip
> *What's your sensitivity?* 42 cm/360
> *What's your maximum budget?* It is unlimited
> *Do you want additional buttons?* It would be great, but I can play without them
> *What games do you play?* FPS games
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Yes, I do
> *Other relevant information:* I felt in love with the shape of the Razer Mamba TE. But the sensor on it is bad. What I want is the Mamba's shape and an acceptable sensor. Do not recommend DA, please, it is a completely different shape


With the Abyssus V2, it's more than possible that the Mamba will get a V2 with less sensor issues soon.


----------



## bruzanHD

Pad recomendation please!

I use a Kinzu V1 at 400CPI and 1.3 sens. I usually use a QcK but I have been looking at artisan stuff and don't have any idea where to begin. I also usually play sniper type weapons so more flicks than anything else.


----------



## Kalithres

Hi guys, the wire of my Roccat Kone XTD Laser is broken and i need to replace with a new gaming mice like that =(

*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip

*What's your sensitivity?
*
Medium-Low. I dont need more than 4000DPI i think.

*What's your maximum budget?*

80€

*Do you want additional buttons?*

I think yes

*What games do you play?*

Right now im semi-professional Overwatch Player, so is my core game, i play WoW, CS, some rpg´s, and MOBAS a little too.
*
Do you mind about prediction?
*
Im not sure.

*Other relevant information:*

Wired mice, braided cord, onboard memory, OMROM switches, nice software to customization... I was searching some similar mice like my Kone XTD, maybe i should buy again? xD Other mice that i like, are Corsair M65 PRO RGB, Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum,SteelSeries Rival 700, Roccat Tyon and the Optical version of the Kone XTD.


----------



## Kalithres

I forgot to ask if the 3366 is the best sensor(i was reading that), or could be another like that







and optical vs laser to play Overwatch


----------



## AndrewM

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
Not entirely sure. Mid I guess? I used to use a Logitech m510, but it was never really all that comfortable, and it died a few months ago. Right now I'm using an el-Cheapo kensington optical mouse I had lying around as a spare, with windows mouse sensitivity set to 6/11.

What's your maximum budget?
$200, but I'd rather spend not a ton

Do you want additional buttons?
I need a way to scroll left/right, not just up/down. Either a four way scroll wheel or additional buttons. A couple of thumb buttons are a bonus, but not necessary. I don't want something with 50 buttons.

What games do you play?
Not really a gamer. I'm an engineer and I want something more comfortable for doing CAD work (I mainly use Altium and SolidWorks).

Do you mind about prediction?
I really have no idea. I don't think I've tried a mouse good enough to not have prediction to feel the difference. If I had to guess, I'd rather not use prediction and rely on the snap-to-object options in my CAD software which I can turn on/off as I wish. Everything else I'm doing on a computer doesn't care about mouse precision - its day to day internet and text editing (or physics/math processing) stuff. Anything that's precise will have me typing in exact numbers instead of dragging with the mouse anyways.

Other relevant information:
I primarily care about ergonomic right-handed shape and hand comfort here. I want something to force me to not drag the bottom of my hand on the desk. I've had problems in the past with it irritating the skin on the bottom-outside of my hand from dragging along the desk all day. I do care a fair bit about how the surface of the mouse feels and its grip and durability against hand sweat.

I'm not exactly sure how you guys measure hands, so here is a picture of my hand with a ruler on it:

http://i.imgur.com/IyZJkwW.jpg

17cm? 17.5? Not exactly sure.

Wireless would be nice but isn't required, just to reduce desk clutter and make it easy to take with my laptop when I'm out. My laptop trackpad is complete garbage.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndrewM*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> Not entirely sure. Mid I guess? I used to use a Logitech m510, but it was never really all that comfortable, and it died a few months ago. Right now I'm using an el-Cheapo kensington optical mouse I had lying around as a spare, with windows mouse sensitivity set to 6/11.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $200, but I'd rather spend not a ton
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I need a way to scroll left/right, not just up/down. Either a four way scroll wheel or additional buttons. A couple of thumb buttons are a bonus, but not necessary. I don't want something with 50 buttons.
> 
> What games do you play?
> Not really a gamer. I'm an engineer and I want something more comfortable for doing CAD work (I mainly use Altium and SolidWorks).
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I really have no idea. I don't think I've tried a mouse good enough to not have prediction to feel the difference. If I had to guess, I'd rather not use prediction and rely on the snap-to-object options in my CAD software which I can turn on/off as I wish. Everything else I'm doing on a computer doesn't care about mouse precision - its day to day internet and text editing (or physics/math processing) stuff. Anything that's precise will have me typing in exact numbers instead of dragging with the mouse anyways.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I primarily care about ergonomic right-handed shape and hand comfort here. I want something to force me to not drag the bottom of my hand on the desk. I've had problems in the past with it irritating the skin on the bottom-outside of my hand from dragging along the desk all day. I do care a fair bit about how the surface of the mouse feels and its grip and durability against hand sweat.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure how you guys measure hands, so here is a picture of my hand with a ruler on it:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/IyZJkwW.jpg
> 
> 17cm? 17.5? Not exactly sure.
> 
> Wireless would be nice but isn't required, just to reduce desk clutter and make it easy to take with my laptop when I'm out. My laptop trackpad is complete garbage.


Logitech MX Master.


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndrewM*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> Not entirely sure. Mid I guess? I used to use a Logitech m510, but it was never really all that comfortable, and it died a few months ago. Right now I'm using an el-Cheapo kensington optical mouse I had lying around as a spare, with windows mouse sensitivity set to 6/11.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> $200, but I'd rather spend not a ton
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I need a way to scroll left/right, not just up/down. Either a four way scroll wheel or additional buttons. A couple of thumb buttons are a bonus, but not necessary. I don't want something with 50 buttons.
> 
> What games do you play?
> Not really a gamer. I'm an engineer and I want something more comfortable for doing CAD work (I mainly use Altium and SolidWorks).
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I really have no idea. I don't think I've tried a mouse good enough to not have prediction to feel the difference. If I had to guess, I'd rather not use prediction and rely on the snap-to-object options in my CAD software which I can turn on/off as I wish. Everything else I'm doing on a computer doesn't care about mouse precision - its day to day internet and text editing (or physics/math processing) stuff. Anything that's precise will have me typing in exact numbers instead of dragging with the mouse anyways.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I primarily care about ergonomic right-handed shape and hand comfort here. I want something to force me to not drag the bottom of my hand on the desk. I've had problems in the past with it irritating the skin on the bottom-outside of my hand from dragging along the desk all day. I do care a fair bit about how the surface of the mouse feels and its grip and durability against hand sweat.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure how you guys measure hands, so here is a picture of my hand with a ruler on it:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/IyZJkwW.jpg
> 
> 17cm? 17.5? Not exactly sure.
> 
> Wireless would be nice but isn't required, just to reduce desk clutter and make it easy to take with my laptop when I'm out. My laptop trackpad is complete garbage.


The Logitech G900 is fairly expensive, but it's supposed to be pretty good. I got the chance to hold it. It's ambidextrous though.

The MX Master is a good cheaper alternative if you're not playing games.

Both are wireless, neither have sidescroll (you can sidescroll with shift+scroll anyway)


----------



## AndrewM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Logitech MX Master.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> The Logitech G900 is fairly expensive, but it's supposed to be pretty good. I got the chance to hold it. It's ambidextrous though.
> 
> The MX Master is a good cheaper alternative if you're not playing games.
> 
> Both are wireless, neither have sidescroll (you can sidescroll with shift+scroll anyway)


Yeah, shift-scroll is what I've been doing for now. I kinda liked the side-scroll scrollwheel when I've used it. MX Master looks actually pretty good, I think I'll probably go with that. Thanks guys.


----------



## Natskyge

What's your grip style? Hybrid palm and claw grip, my middel and index finger ( the fingers on the Main mouse buttons ) are in a claw grip, rest of the fingers i palm with. Futher more i need ~12 ish centimeters of space for my pinky and ring finger depending on the mouse shape.
What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
What's your maximum budget? If it is worth it, 150$.
Do you want additional buttons? Two buttons for my thumb is a must.
What games do you play? Battlefield 4, Overwatch.
Do you mind about prediction? Yes.
Other relevant information:
Shape is kind of an issue for me. Let me explain: my ol' EC1 eVo the shape was to "relaxed" causing me to not be able to make minute adjustments, with my G303 it was, besides causing hand cancer, "active" causing me to make unintional adjustments. So a middel ground between G303 ans EC1 eVo is needed.

Buttons are also important, they need to feel crisp and responsive. Cable needs to be good, preferably rubber, but G303's is good aswell. Also needs to have low input lag, because on my G303 the diffrence between 500 Hz and 1000 Hz is very noticable. I also apreciate a lack of gimmicks and simplicity.

As a last point: Build quality is very importants as intend to keep for a long time, as such durability is a must.


----------



## ZipoT

What's your grip style?
Claw grip

What's your sensitivity?
No idea

What's your maximum budget?
75€

Do you want additional buttons?
Not really necessary, I think

What games do you play?
The Elder Scrolls series and GTA series mostly. Besides that, I usually like RPGs. I'm not a hardcore gamer.

Do you mind about prediction?
Best without prediction if possible

Other relevant information:
Mi current mouse is the Logitech G9 Laser, which I bought some years ago.


----------



## Gah Duma

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 3200-4000 dpi
What's your maximum budget? $200 USD
Do you want additional buttons? don't care
What games do you play? fps
Do you mind about prediction? yes, I don't want any
Other relevant information: I just want a god-tier mouse that doesn't have a rubberized coating. Why is it so hard to find such a mouse?


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> I found this really cool website: http://www.rocketjumpninja.com/
> 
> Might help, considering I don't know a whole lot about mice.


He has a YouTube which I find to be the best for reviews on Mice and pads.


----------



## TrancePlant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Hybrid palm and claw grip, my middel and index finger ( the fingers on the Main mouse buttons ) are in a claw grip, rest of the fingers i palm with. Futher more i need ~12 ish centimeters of space for my pinky and ring finger depending on the mouse shape.
> What's your sensitivity? 400 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? If it is worth it, 150$.
> Do you want additional buttons? Two buttons for my thumb is a must.
> What games do you play? Battlefield 4, Overwatch.
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes.
> Other relevant information:
> Shape is kind of an issue for me. Let me explain: my ol' EC1 eVo the shape was to "relaxed" causing me to not be able to make minute adjustments, with my G303 it was, besides causing hand cancer, "active" causing me to make unintional adjustments. So a middel ground between G303 ans EC1 eVo is needed.
> 
> Buttons are also important, they need to feel crisp and responsive. Cable needs to be good, preferably rubber, but G303's is good aswell. Also needs to have low input lag, because on my G303 the diffrence between 500 Hz and 1000 Hz is very noticable. I also apreciate a lack of gimmicks and simplicity.
> 
> As a last point: Build quality is very importants as intend to keep for a long time, as such durability is a must.


I think an EC2-A might be a good shout for you. The slimmer and lower grip will allow you to make those smaller adjustments that you like from the G303 without the unintentional adjustments you get from pressing the side buttons and whatnot.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrancePlant*
> 
> I think an EC2-A might be a good shout for you. The slimmer and lower grip will allow you to make those smaller adjustments that you like from the G303 without the unintentional adjustments you get from pressing the side buttons and whatnot.


I think i will abuse the 14 day return we have in Denmark to try it, that is after i try a used FK1 i found.


----------



## TrancePlant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I think i will abuse the 14 day return we have in Denmark to try it, that is after i try a used FK1 i found.


Yep, this is what I'm currently doing right now with my EC2-A - I found that it's not quite big enough for my hands so I'm going waiting for the EC1-A to arrive before I make a comparison and send back the one I don't like







.

Personally I didn't like the FK1 because I like having my little finger somewhere to sit or at least aid in the gripping process on the right hand side of the mouse. For my hand this is definitely a fingertip or claw kind of mouse although this will likely depend on your hand size (mine is 19cm long & 10cm wide).

With the FK1 it felt like I was only holding the mouse by the fleshy part of my thumb and my ring finger and nothing else.

I, like you are in the middle of finding the right mouse that fits my hand but in the end you can't really ever know until you try the mouse in your hand for a while...my mouse journey continues...


----------



## DAPPER

[*] What's your grip style? Claw Palm hybrid can use either though.
[*] What's your sensitivity? Generally around 1000 effective dpi in game.
[*] What's your maximum budget? Around $80.
[*] Do you want additional buttons?Just like 2-3 extra but I don't mind more.
[*] What games do you play? Generally FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes I don't want any prediction
[*] Other relevant information: I would like a medium-large size mouse


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DAPPER*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? Claw Palm hybrid can use either though.
> [*] What's your sensitivity? Generally around 1000 effective dpi in game.
> [*] What's your maximum budget? Around $80.
> [*] Do you want additional buttons?Just like 2-3 extra but I don't mind more.
> [*] What games do you play? Generally FPS
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes I don't want any prediction
> [*] Other relevant information: I would like a medium-large size mouse


The only way I can hold my Logitech G402 comfortably for long periods of time is with a claw/palm hybrid, and it has 4 programmable buttons (2 without software). It's got an extremely over the top max tracking speed and no prediction/angle snapping etc. It's a large mouse, so it's not to my liking (I like small mice but I have very large hands, 23.5cm from tip to base), but I can see the appeal of it. Try it out at a local store if you can, because it's a love it/hate it shape. Should be around the right price too.


----------



## DAPPER

Thank you will try it out.


----------



## raad11

Hi guys. I have a Thermaltake Saphira. I heard it doesn't have the greatest firmware, plus middle mouse button has failed on me again, so I was wondering if there's a mouse that has a similar shape, size, and weight to the Saphira but a newer generation sensor that is stable, not jittery, and runs fine at 1000Hz (or 500Hz polling I suppose, but I figure hypothetically 1000 should be better if the mouse does it right) and has a good company and firmware.

I could go for an older optical sensor too if the native DPI is clearly known. Someone recommended the Rantopad FF in another thread. I haven't been able to find a consensus on what the native DPI for the Saphira is. Even though it's an A3090 sensor too and the official PDF says 1800/3500, I've read 800/1600 online elsewhere. I used to have it at 3500dpi and lowered sense in-game, so I shifted it to 1600dpi instead and upped the in-game sens.

I don't care about prediction as long as it's not crazy. The Saphira is supposed to have it and it's probably only helped me. I don't need it or anything though.

I use a Puretrak Stealth pad.


----------



## geForZ

Anybody know whether I should pick up an EVGA Torq X5 or wait for the Nixeus Revel? Both of them have exactly what I'm looking for (sans the white on the X5) and It seems like the X5 is getting harder and harder to find. I'd really like to try it out before it disappears completely, but I don't have that much money to play around with right now and I can't justify the purchase of 2 mice.

Thoughts?


----------



## paers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Anybody know whether I should pick up an EVGA Torq X5 or wait for the Nixeus Revel? Both of them have exactly what I'm looking for (sans the white on the X5) and It seems like the X5 is getting harder and harder to find. I'd really like to try it out before it disappears completely, but I don't have that much money to play around with right now and I can't justify the purchase of 2 mice.
> 
> Thoughts?


If you're sure both shapes will be fine, wait for Revel.


----------



## RevanCorana

The X5 looks cooler but the Nixeus looks more comfortable


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paers*
> 
> If you're sure both shapes will be fine, wait for Revel.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> The X5 looks cooler but the Nixeus looks more comfortable


Yeah, I think I'll wait. Thanks guys.


----------



## xSociety

New Logitech mouse incoming:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1604070/skadoodle-and-semphis-new-mouse/0_40


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> New Logitech mouse incoming:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1604070/skadoodle-and-semphis-new-mouse/0_40


Looks to me pretty much like a Diamondback 3G without bumpers or funky colors (both of which made the mouse for me







), so I'm out.


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Looks to me pretty much like a Diamondback 3G without bumpers or funky colors (both of which made the mouse for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), so I'm out.


Really can't tell how it will feel until we actually try it. So many mice I've tried looked terrible or really comfortable and ended up being the opposite.


----------



## doguozkan

After a long time lurking, my time has finally come and I don't know what to buy.

What's your grip style?
Fingertip. I can adjust for a great mouse, though.
What's your sensitivity?
Anywhere between 800 and 3000, I can drop 'till 1600 for a good mouse.
What's your maximum budget?
100$. The lower, the better, though.
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes if they can be programmed as with LGS.
What games do you play?
Some FPS, some MOBA, some MMORPG. Though, in my experience, if it works for FPS games, it'll do fine for most other genres, minus the extra buttons.
Do you mind about prediction?
I die a little every time I have to use a mouse with prediction.
Other relevant information:
- I can't overstate how much I appreciate being able to program the buttons using Logitech's gaming software. The Lua support is especially amazing. This is a feature I'd rather not give up, but I still might for a reasonably priced good mouse.
- I don't prefer very small mouses. The size of my G300 is ok, my old G400 was good, that standard-issue 5$ A4Tech mouse is also sized well.
- Although I've used and enjoyed wired mouses so far, I'm open to changes, as long as I don't have to change batteries every 2 days (I imagine that also gets expensive).
- No ambidexterity required.
tl;dr fingertip, 800-1600 dpi, below 100 bucks, extra buttons if programmable, all genres of games, no prediction, no teeny tiny mouses.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DAPPER*
> 
> [*] What's your grip style? Claw Palm hybrid can use either though.
> [*] What's your sensitivity? Generally around 1000 effective dpi in game.
> [*] What's your maximum budget? Around $80.
> [*] Do you want additional buttons?Just like 2-3 extra but I don't mind more.
> [*] What games do you play? Generally FPS
> [*] Do you mind about prediction? Yes I don't want any prediction
> [*] Other relevant information: I would like a medium-large size mouse


Zowie ZA11 or ZA12
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doguozkan*
> 
> After a long time lurking, my time has finally come and I don't know what to buy.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Fingertip. I can adjust for a great mouse, though.
> What's your sensitivity?
> Anywhere between 800 and 3000, I can drop 'till 1600 for a good mouse.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 100$. The lower, the better, though.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Yes if they can be programmed as with LGS.
> What games do you play?
> Some FPS, some MOBA, some MMORPG. Though, in my experience, if it works for FPS games, it'll do fine for most other genres, minus the extra buttons.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I die a little every time I have to use a mouse with prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> - I can't overstate how much I appreciate being able to program the buttons using Logitech's gaming software. The Lua support is especially amazing. This is a feature I'd rather not give up, but I still might for a reasonably priced good mouse.
> - I don't prefer very small mouses. The size of my G300 is ok, my old G400 was good, that standard-issue 5$ A4Tech mouse is also sized well.
> - Although I've used and enjoyed wired mouses so far, I'm open to changes, as long as I don't have to change batteries every 2 days (I imagine that also gets expensive).
> - No ambidexterity required.
> tl;dr fingertip, 800-1600 dpi, below 100 bucks, extra buttons if programmable, all genres of games, no prediction, no teeny tiny mouses.


Zowie FK series, G303, G900( if you can stretch it ), logitech mouse thats coming out, Mionix Avoir 7000.


----------



## doguozkan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Zowie ZA11 or ZA12
> Zowie FK series, G303, G900( if you can stretch it ), logitech mouse thats coming out, Mionix Avoir 7000.


The Zowie and Mionix mouses don't even seem to be for sale in Turkey and I'd rather not take my chances with international mail and customs. The G900 wouldn't be just a stretch - it's 3 to 4 times as expensive as G303 if bought locally. Though, I didn't even know the G303 existed, thanks! It seems like a really good candidate right now.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doguozkan*
> 
> The Zowie and Mionix mouses don't even seem to be for sale in Turkey and I'd rather not take my chances with international mail and customs. The G900 wouldn't be just a stretch - it's 3 to 4 times as expensive as G303 if bought locally. Though, I didn't even know the G303 existed, thanks! It seems like a really good candidate right now.


I would wait for the new logitech mouse that has been leaked, looks like a better G303. Don't forget to rep people who were helpfull.


----------



## itsn0mad

*What's your grip style?* Claw, 19cm hand
*What's your sensitivity?* 800DPI, 30cm/360 in Overwatch, 40-50cm/360 in CSGO
*What's your maximum budget?* Would like around $60, but could go higher. As long as it's not over $100, we good.
*Do you want additional buttons?* Side buttons would be nice
*What games do you play?* Overwatch, CSGO
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
*Other relevant information:* Was going to buy a EC2-A, but the Zowie thread got me thinking. Previously used a Deathadder, liked it, currently using a G502, it's a little uncomfortable.
*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Ergonomic and light-ish. Non-braided cord would be gr8


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I would wait for the new logitech mouse that has been leaked, looks like a better G303. Don't forget to rep people who were helpfull.


When is that coming out, though? Hasn't even been announced. D:


----------



## gunshyb

What's your grip style? *hybrid claw/fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *Not too sure but in windows its all the way up with a run of the mill microsoft mouse.*
What's your maximum budget? *100*
Do you want additional buttons? *yes - on both sides would like 1 or 2 (dont need an MMO style though)*
What games do you play? *MOBA, FPS*
Do you mind about prediction? *not completely sure. I pretty much use a run of the mill microsoft laser mouse circa 2012. I also actually like the size/feel (is that odd? lol). similar form factor would be nice - a little bigger would be good too.*

Other relevant information:


----------



## Arizonian

Long time coming. I've merged the OP on two threads that were overlapping. This being the official mouse suggestion thread now has the info from both and will make it less confusing for members asking for suggestions. Stickies updated.


----------



## spicedguava

What's your grip style? *Claw / Fingertip hybrid*
What's your sensitivity? *800-1000 dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *$100*
Do you want additional buttons? *no*
What games do you play? *LoL / Dota*
Do you mind about prediction? *No*
Other relevant information:
*I have really small hands (roughly 15.5-16.5cm). Have tried the g303, sensor and clicker was nice but the shape was extremely bothersome. I have used the g100s + abyssus and they are solid but I am looking for something better (preferably smaller and better clicking). Considering the Roccat Kone Pure Military atm and I am wondering how the shape and size compares with the g100s / abyssus.*


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spicedguava*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw / Fingertip hybrid*
> What's your sensitivity? *800-1000 dpi*
> What's your maximum budget? *$100*
> Do you want additional buttons? *no*
> What games do you play? *LoL / Dota*
> Do you mind about prediction? *No*
> Other relevant information:
> *I have really small hands (roughly 15.5-16.5cm). Have tried the g303, sensor and clicker was nice but the shape was extremely bothersome. I have used the g100s + abyssus and they are solid but I am looking for something better (preferably smaller and better clicking). Considering the Roccat Kone Pure Military atm and I am wondering how the shape and size compares with the g100s / abyssus.*


I don't really know about the Kone Pure, but what you describe wanting is basically my favorite mouse ever, the Asus Sica. No side buttons, very small, crisp clicks (with the added benefit of being able to change the switches easily) and it comes in 2 colors. IIRC it's a little bit smaller than the G100S. Rught now it's about $40-$60, but you might be able to find it cheaper. Be forewarned that you'll have to download firmware for another mouse, the Asus Gladius, to get the most out of it, because it has immense (30ms) click delay without software.


----------



## Zazarith

1. What's your grip style? _I use a claw grip due to the shortness of my mouse_
2. What's your sensitivity? _The mouse I currently use is locked at 1000 DPI_
3. What's your maximum budget? _$80 would be the highest I'd go if I were really convinced_
4. Do you want additional buttons? _I would prefer to not have buttons close to the thumb grip_
5. What games do you play? _I play osu!, League, SC II_
6. Do you mind about prediction? _Yes I do, precision is very important for me so I'd rather have none_
7. Other relevant information: _I would prefer a lightweight mouse with a low LOD and for as far as looks and textures go: I'm not picky at all. I would prefer if the button activation force wasn't too resistant. I would Also, if it makes any difference my hands are 17 cm from middle finger tip to wrist_


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zazarith*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style? _I use a claw grip due to the shortness of my mouse_
> 2. What's your sensitivity? _The mouse I currently use is locked at 1000 DPI_
> 3. What's your maximum budget? _$80 would be the highest I'd go if I were really convinced_
> 4. Do you want additional buttons? _I would prefer to not have buttons close to the thumb grip_
> 5. What games do you play? _I play osu!, League, SC II_
> 6. Do you mind about prediction? _Yes I do, precision is very important for me so I'd rather have none_
> 7. Other relevant information: _I would prefer a lightweight mouse with a low LOD and for as far as looks and textures go: I'm not picky at all. I would prefer if the button activation force wasn't too resistant. I would Also, if it makes any difference my hands are 17 cm from middle finger tip to wrist_


I will refer you to the post above you. The only thing I have to add is that there is no prediction


----------



## nutellarain

What's your grip style?

claw/palm hybrid, mostly claw.

What's your sensitivity?

800 dpi

What's your budget?

$60-70 bucks

Do you want additional buttons?

just the normal back and forwards buttons. wouldn't have a problem with extra buttons, though.

What games do you play?

csgo

Do you mind about prediction?

I don't want prediction.

Other relevant information:

19cm/7.5" hands

currently have a za11, want something similar to that without a ****ty scroll wheel.

no preference for mice with or without software.

as long as weight isn't heavy then i'm fine.


----------



## Gladi

What's your grip style? somewhere between Palm and Claw
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget? 150 Euro
Do you want additional buttons? Yes
What games do you play? WoT, RTS, RPGs,
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Something close to the old logitech G500 in terms of shape, button layout and features, but with durable LMB/RMB buttons
my mice often die because the buttons malfunction








braided cable would be nice - wireless is not needed but if then please with swapable battery packs like the old logitech G700
OH and sweat resistant - I get sweaty hands








should stay within typical mouse design and not to techy if possible

thanks for your time and suggestions!


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gladi*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? somewhere between Palm and Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget? 150 Euro
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes
> What games do you play? WoT, RTS, RPGs,
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Something close to the old logitech G500 in terms of shape, button layout and features, but with durable LMB/RMB buttons
> my mice often die because the buttons malfunction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braided cable would be nice - wireless is not needed but if then please with swapable battery packs like the old logitech G700
> OH and sweat resistant - I get sweaty hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should stay within typical mouse design and not to techy if possible
> 
> thanks for your time and suggestions!


Logitech G502, G402 and Roccat Kone Pure Millitary.


----------



## Gladi

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Logitech G502, G402 and Roccat Kone Pure Millitary.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gladi*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? somewhere between Palm and Claw
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget? 150 Euro
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes
> What games do you play? WoT, RTS, RPGs,
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Something close to the old logitech G500 in terms of shape, button layout and features, but with durable LMB/RMB buttons
> my mice often die because the buttons malfunction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braided cable would be nice - wireless is not needed but if then please with swapable battery packs like the old logitech G700
> OH and sweat resistant - I get sweaty hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should stay within typical mouse design and not to techy if possible
> 
> thanks for your time and suggestions!






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Logitech G502, G402 and Roccat Kone Pure Millitary.


Thanks, would the Steel Series Rival 700 be a good fit?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gladi*
> 
> Thanks, would the Steel Series Rival 700 be a good fit?


I would not recomend it, it has tons of useless gimmicks, like an OLED display and vibration and it is way to heavy and expensive.


----------



## Gladi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I would not recomend it, it has tons of useless gimmicks, like an OLED display and vibration and it is way to heavy and expensive.


Hm, Ok.
I agree with that, if we just look at the form and size?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gladi*
> 
> Hm, Ok.
> I agree with that, if we just look at the form and size?


The shape is not like G500, it is more like Deathadder/IME 3.0/EC-1A


----------



## Fateful_Ikkou

I've never "really" used M&K, I've been primarily a controller guy but I'm looking to branch out so I'm really unsure what the best mouse would be for me.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
800~3000DPI (Changes according to game)

3. What's your budget?
No budget

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not a fan, buttons often times throw off my focus when I use them but I like options so I'm neutral here

5. What games do you play?
Mainly shooters like COD, Battlefield, and Far Cry.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
The ability to turn it off sounds cool and I would prefer it but not 100% necessary

7. Other relevant information:
Medium to Large size hands, open to pretty much any brand, I really enjoyed the RAT.5 and the Razer Naga MMO when I had them.


----------



## totalstu

Hi,

Looking for suggestions/recommendations. I've been using a sidewinder X3 for many years. Rubber on the scroll wheel is starting to come off (little black pieces of rubber on fingers is annoying) so I figure it's time to replace. I'm looking for something ambidextrous with the same size, feel, features, etc. as the x3. I'm more fingertip grip than palm grip and definitely not claw grip.

Thanks


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *totalstu*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hoping you can help. I've been using a sidewinder X3 for many years. Rubber on the scroll wheel is starting to come off (little black pieces of rubber on fingers is annoying) so I figure it's time to replace. I'm looking for something ambidextrous with the same size, feel, etc. as the x3. I'm more fingertip grip than palm grip and definitely not claw grip. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks


Hard to say. No mouse comes very close to the profile. The Sensei shape is an option but it's a bit lower and the side buttons may be in the way.

Frankly, if you felt good with it then just get another one. It doesn't seem widely available but I found it here for 25$

http://www.performance-pcs.com/microsoft-sidewinder-x3-gaming-mouse.html


----------



## totalstu

Nice find. Now what with me being in Canada and factoring in Exchange rate , shipping, brokerage, etc. I need to figure if it's worth the cost or find something else that's comparable that I can get up here. Hmm............

Thanks


----------



## KevinV

Is there a mouse out there similar to the Zowie MiCo?

It was the perfect mouse for me in weight/size. I was hoping Zowie would recreate it by now but they failed to do so.


----------



## JackCY

*What's your grip style?*
Palm, knuckle, hybrid because most mice are too short and small.
*
What's your sensitivity?*
800-1600CPI, say 450, 800, 1200, 1600, 2400 CPI are steps I tend to use
*
What's your maximum budget?*
Cheaper than DA
*
Do you want additional buttons?*
5 is fine

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Don't want any prediction, acceleration, angle snapping, straight line nonsense features.

*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

I prefer 1CD or lower LOD
Lightweight
Fast connection to the PC, don't care if wired or wireless but I don't think there is a decent enough wireless mouse yet on the market
non-braided cord
Omron light buttons, the stiffer Huanos are acceptable but not preferred
Driverless preferred
As long as mouse remembers my settings between power offs I'm happy, don't need 10 profiles just 1.
Split main buttons are very welcome, just like old MS and G302/3 etc has
Scroll wheel that works
No bugs in FW or massive QC issues
3310 or newer preferred
Don't need on the fly CPI changing, Zowie style is fine
As large, long and wide as possible, wheel as much to the front, 128mm advertised length minimum, wide ass very welcome such as XM300 has and newest Roccat Kova, main buttons rounded down from the hump and the end edge also rounded like on IE3.0 and not sharp like XM300
Decent space for ring finger to be placed on side of the mouse at front next to RMB

I've already tried and didn't like due to shape or build quality:

EC1, too small, bad side buttons and location, bugged wheel, ...
Naos 7000, worst shape ever made, worst coating ever made
FK1+, not the best tolerances in build quality, stiff Huanos, not big enough ass more of a finger tip mouse IMHO, bad side buttons size and location, couldn't get a good grip on it for fast reactions as it has no ass at all to grip, overall was too narrow especially at rear
XM300, default firmware doesn't work as it should and it "bricked" the mouse, worst firmware ever made
All of the above mice while being one of the largest available are IMHO medium sized hand mice for up to 19/10cm hands.

My hands size 21/10cm or 21.5/10cm. Large, long.
So far I've used IE3.0 for a decade but that's about as long as it may serve.

If someone knows the differences between various Rival 300 versions and their durability please let me know, I might try it but don't know if the black coated version is durable or not, if the glossy one was black I might get it but they only make it white. The silver seems like silver spray painted black plastic? That's gonna end up like IE3.0 and go off as sweat eats the paint away.
Zowie coating is fine but the XM300 coating is not good for grip much, Mionix coating was terrible and scratched off very very easily it was too soft.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KevinV*
> 
> Is there a mouse out there similar to the Zowie MiCo?
> 
> It was the perfect mouse for me in weight/size. I was hoping Zowie would recreate it by now but they failed to do so.


About every other laptop/portable oriented mouse from Logitech and others.
Right now G pro will launch 10th Sep.


----------



## Frosted racquet

---What's your grip style?
Fingertip grip, ~19 cm base to tip (...ladies







)

---What's your sensitivity?
800-1600

---What's your maximum budget?
Theoretically unlimited, looking for a whole range of prices that suit my needs if possible

---Do you want additional buttons?
Back/Forward in addition to the standard M1/2/3/CPI

---Do you mind about prediction?
Don't want any, as close to "perfect" as possible

---Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
LOD below 1CD
Weight ~100g

I'm currently using a Logitech G402 and have a couple of complaints:

1) Sometimes I accidentally actuate mouse 1 and mouse 2 buttons when resting my hand on the mouse or moving it around. It generally isn't an issue while playing, and I certainly appreciate the responsiveness but it can be very annoying. I would prefer a mouse that requires a bit more force to actuate M1 and M2.

2) The middle mouse is too loud and hard to press. I prefer something quieter when scrolling and clicking.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> ---What's your grip style?
> Fingertip grip, ~19 cm base to tip (...ladies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> ---What's your sensitivity?
> 800-1600
> 
> ---What's your maximum budget?
> Theoretically unlimited, looking for a whole range of prices that suit my needs if possible
> 
> ---Do you want additional buttons?
> Back/Forward in addition to the standard M1/2/3/CPI
> 
> ---Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't want any, as close to "perfect" as possible
> 
> ---Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> LOD below 1CD
> Weight ~100g
> 
> I'm currently using a Logitech G402 and have a couple of complaints:
> 
> 1) Sometimes I accidentally actuate mouse 1 and mouse 2 buttons when resting my hand on the mouse or moving it around. It generally isn't an issue while playing, and I certainly appreciate the responsiveness but it can be very annoying. I would prefer a mouse that requires a bit more force to actuate M1 and M2.
> 
> 2) The middle mouse is too loud and hard to press. I prefer something quieter when scrolling and clicking.


EC2- Awould probably remedy your clicking issue. Also has better tracking IMO.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> EC2- Awould probably remedy your clicking issue. Also has better tracking IMO.


Thanks for the reply. Zowie is definitely on my watch list. Unfortunately the scroll wheel on the EC2-A is loud when scrolling from what I can hear from people that have the mouse.
Since I'm in no hurry, I'll be on the lookout for more suggestions. Logitech G Pro looks interesting, I look forward to people buying it and posting their experience. But, ultimately I'd probably need to try out a specific mouse by myself and see.


----------



## JackCY

19cm fingertip? With stiffer clicks? FK2. I would avoid EC series since the side buttons and wheel are a mess on it.
Or ZA12,13, we don't know how short mouse you need for fingertip grip.

Pretty much any small to medium mouse should work for fingertip for a medium sized hand.


----------



## s0rry

I have 19 by 9.5 cm hands. I'm looking for a mouse with a decent optical sensor (doesn't have to be as good as 3310) and a small grip width so I can get a good claw grip on it. I currently use a G303 and the size is great for me, I just want more mice to try out. Give me some suggestions!


----------



## s0rry

Try the Rival 300. If it feels too small, honestly just try switching your grip to claw. It makes it so much easier to aim.


----------



## nokill

*What's your grip style?*
I use a weird combination of claw and palmgrip, where my index and middle finger are straight on the mouse buttons, but the other 3 are angled like im claw gripping the mouse
My handsize is 19/10cm.

*What's your sensitivity?*
41cm/360 - 400DPI

*What's your maximum budget?*
65€

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Not really, but if there is 1 or 2 buttons on the side, I won't mind

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yeah, I don't want any of this stuff.

*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*

Non-braided cable
Non-glossy finish (what's the WMO finish? that one was nice...)
<90g
Shape similar to the WMO or smaller (the WMO feels a bit bulky now tbh)
max. 1-2CD LOD
Driverless would be preferred, but isn't a huge dealbreaker
Well accentuated buttons
No flashy LEDs, something like the DM1 is okayish
Good durability would be nice
I've only ever used my trusty WMO for gaming and have little to no experience with other mice, so I might not know what I actually want apart from external factors which I've outlined. So don't be shy to recommend mice that might not fit every single criteria, as I might be just plain ignorant or wrong about stuff.

I can "try out" the big brands in one of my local electronic store but I don't think that will help alot as I probably need a few hours to really see if I like the shape or not.
The definite thing I can say about the shape is, that I don't like the ergonomic shaped ones.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fateful_Ikkou*
> 
> I've never "really" used M&K, I've been primarily a controller guy but I'm looking to branch out so I'm really unsure what the best mouse would be for me.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800~3000DPI (Changes according to game)
> 
> 3. What's your budget?
> No budget
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not a fan, buttons often times throw off my focus when I use them but I like options so I'm neutral here
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mainly shooters like COD, Battlefield, and Far Cry.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> The ability to turn it off sounds cool and I would prefer it but not 100% necessary
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Medium to Large size hands, open to pretty much any brand, I really enjoyed the RAT.5 and the Razer Naga MMO when I had them.


Steelseries rival 300.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nokill*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> I use a weird combination of claw and palmgrip, where my index and middle finger are straight on the mouse buttons, but the other 3 are angled like im claw gripping the mouse
> My handsize is 19/10cm.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 41cm/360 - 400DPI
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 65€
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Not really, but if there is 1 or 2 buttons on the side, I won't mind
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Yeah, I don't want any of this stuff.
> 
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> 
> Non-braided cable
> Non-glossy finish (what's the WMO finish? that one was nice...)
> <90g
> Shape similar to the WMO or smaller (the WMO feels a bit bulky now tbh)
> max. 1-2CD LOD
> Driverless would be preferred, but isn't a huge dealbreaker
> Well accentuated buttons
> No flashy LEDs, something like the DM1 is okayish
> Good durability would be nice
> I've only ever used my trusty WMO for gaming and have little to no experience with other mice, so I might not know what I actually want apart from external factors which I've outlined. So don't be shy to recommend mice that might not fit every single criteria, as I might be just plain ignorant or wrong about stuff.
> 
> I can "try out" the big brands in one of my local electronic store but I don't think that will help alot as I probably need a few hours to really see if I like the shape or not.
> The definite thing I can say about the shape is, that I don't like the ergonomic shaped ones.


The Roccat Kone Pure Military sounds like a good fit but it has a braided cable. But i heard it isn't half bad..
The zowie fk2, za12 or za13 also sound like a good fit. I have a zowie fk1 right now which is a bigger version of the fk2 and i have 19/9.5cm hands and it feels a bit big for me, so thats why i suggest the fk2, za12 or za13.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nutellarain*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> claw/palm hybrid, mostly claw.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800 dpi
> 
> What's your budget?
> 
> $60-70 bucks
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> just the normal back and forwards buttons. wouldn't have a problem with extra buttons, though.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> csgo
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> I don't want prediction.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> 19cm/7.5" hands
> 
> currently have a za11, want something similar to that without a ****ty scroll wheel.
> 
> no preference for mice with or without software.
> 
> as long as weight isn't heavy then i'm fine.


The new Logitech G Pro sounds like a good fit but it comes out on the 10th of september I think. Or you could try the g303, the shape might seem weird at first but I love it personally and I have 19/9.5 cm hands.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *itsn0mad*
> 
> 
> *What's your grip style?* Claw, 19cm hand
> *What's your sensitivity?* 800DPI, 30cm/360 in Overwatch, 40-50cm/360 in CSGO
> *What's your maximum budget?* Would like around $60, but could go higher. As long as it's not over $100, we good.
> *Do you want additional buttons?* Side buttons would be nice
> *What games do you play?* Overwatch, CSGO
> *Do you mind about prediction?* Yes
> *Other relevant information:* Was going to buy a EC2-A, but the Zowie thread got me thinking. Previously used a Deathadder, liked it, currently using a G502, it's a little uncomfortable.
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc* Ergonomic and light-ish. Non-braided cord would be gr8


If you can wait, try the Logitech G Pro which comes out on september 10th i think. I use the Logitech g303 personally and i have the same size hands (19cm by 9.5cm) and its amazing for claw grip.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunshyb*
> 
> What's your grip style? *hybrid claw/fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *Not too sure but in windows its all the way up with a run of the mill microsoft mouse.*
> What's your maximum budget? *100*
> Do you want additional buttons? *yes - on both sides would like 1 or 2 (dont need an MMO style though)*
> What games do you play? *MOBA, FPS*
> Do you mind about prediction? *not completely sure. I pretty much use a run of the mill microsoft laser mouse circa 2012. I also actually like the size/feel (is that odd? lol). similar form factor would be nice - a little bigger would be good too.*
> 
> Other relevant information:


Zowie Za11, za12, za13, fk1 or fk2. depends on what size you want.


----------



## JackCY

There are all the classic small/medium SS XAI shaped DM1, Nixeus Revel, and many other copies of that shape with good sensors.
SS Rival 100.
Zowies for those that like them.
Logitech 302/3, 402 or wait for G Pro a better shaped G303.

The options for small and medium sized hands are endless, simply look at what is sold at shops where you like to shop.


----------



## Bakuryu42

What's your grip style?
Palm, hand size is roughly 20.8-21cm length wise, and 14.3-14.5cm width.
What's your sensitivity?
I have a Logitech G5 Laser Mouse an its software settings is at the middle mark between fast and slow I haven't touched the windows settings. I play CS:GO mostly and my sensitivity is 6.5. I use 800 DPI. My mouse pad is small so I use higher sens to make up for it I am looking to get a bigger mouse pad, suggestion for that would be appreciated as well.
What's your maximum budget?
$80
Do you want additional buttons?
Mine currently has two buttons on the side, I only use one for a mic button, I could live without them if it meant a better overall mouse though.
What games do you play?
CS:GO, Overwatch, Rise of Nations, Guild Wars 2, Killing Floor 1/2.
Do you mind about prediction?
I sounds like it could be a nice option to have, but only as an option.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I'm right handed and have very large hands as I mentioned before 20.8-21cm length wise and 14.3-14.5cm width so I would like something that will fit my hand comfortably . I currently have Logitech G5 Laser Mouse, its got a decent weight to it without the added weights, which I don't use. My cord is pretty frayed at this point and would hope to find a mouse that doesn't have this issue or otherwise find a way to not let it rub on the corner of the desk as much. I'd prefer something that isn't going to wear down texture wise to much from use, I know some have rubber grips that can do this.

Lastly I need a new mouse pad as well I don't have a ton of extra space on my desk, but I can move my keyboard slightly and a mouse pad that is a couple inches. I don't want to limit my mousepad choice though based on this desk because I hope to replace it sometime in the near future though so and suggestion in that area would be appreciated. Also as a FYI I'm using a cloth/soft mouse pad so I should probably just stick with that type.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bakuryu42*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm, hand size is roughly 20.8-21cm length wise, and 14.3-14.5cm width.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I have a Logitech G5 Laser Mouse an its software settings is at the middle mark between fast and slow I haven't touched the windows settings. I play CS:GO mostly and my sensitivity is 6.5. I use 800 DPI. My mouse pad is small so I use higher sens to make up for it I am looking to get a bigger mouse pad, suggestion for that would be appreciated as well.
> What's your maximum budget?
> $80
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mine currently has two buttons on the side, I only use one for a mic button, I could live without them if it meant a better overall mouse though.
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO, Overwatch, Rise of Nations, Guild Wars 2, Killing Floor 1/2.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I sounds like it could be a nice option to have, but only as an option.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I'm right handed and have very large hands as I mentioned before 20.8-21cm length wise and 14.3-14.5cm width so I would like something that will fit my hand comfortably . I currently have Logitech G5 Laser Mouse, its got a decent weight to it without the added weights, which I don't use. My cord is pretty frayed at this point and would hope to find a mouse that doesn't have this issue or otherwise find a way to not let it rub on the corner of the desk as much. I'd prefer something that isn't going to wear down texture wise to much from use, I know some have rubber grips that can do this.
> 
> Lastly I need a new mouse pad as well I don't have a ton of extra space on my desk, but I can move my keyboard slightly and a mouse pad that is a couple inches. I don't want to limit my mousepad choice though based on this desk because I hope to replace it sometime in the near future though so and suggestion in that area would be appreciated. Also as a FYI I'm using a cloth/soft mouse pad so I should probably just stick with that type.


Zowie EC2-A, Razer Deathadder, Steelseries Rival.


----------



## JackCY

EC2A is a small hand mouse, 21/14cm is going to cramp on that and only finger tip it.

You're really stuck even with bigger mice than my 21/10cm hand especially if you want a true palm grip there is no such mouse really.
The biggest decent mice over the years are MS IE3.0 which is old and no longer sold and SS Rival 300, it has those rubber grips that can wear out but supposedly they fixed it and replace affected mice. Rival 300 is narrow at front part though and has had some issues over the years which is I might try it now but it was a mess when it launched.

FK1+ is too short and too narrow. I've tried. EC1A is too short and quality is poor.
G402 and 502 but I didn't like them and the MX500 shape never fit me. But if you like the G5 maybe they have similar shape and size for you.

Anything 128mm long or less is way too short for 21cm hands especially wide ones where you will cramp your hand to even hold these medium sized mice. It is almost mission impossible to find a proper large hand mouse if you want a comfortable palm grip or at least a hybrid palm like I have to use.

Nonergonomic shapes are the easiest to adapt to.

DA is short but wide, tons of issues with HW and SW though out the years so a tough choice at least for me to pick that overpriced mouse to even test it.


----------



## Bakuryu42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0rry*
> 
> Zowie EC2-A, Razer Deathadder, Steelseries Rival.


Isn't the EC2-A small? The Rival and Deathadder seem alright although they are slightly smaller then my Logitech which length wise fits well, width could be better as my ring and pinky finger rest/hover on/over the mouse pad most of the time.


----------



## mitavreb

@Bakuryu42


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bakuryu42*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm, hand size is roughly 20.8-21cm length wise, and 14.3-14.5cm width.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I have a Logitech G5 Laser Mouse an its software settings is at the middle mark between fast and slow I haven't touched the windows settings. I play CS:GO mostly and my sensitivity is 6.5. I use 800 DPI. My mouse pad is small so I use higher sens to make up for it I am looking to get a bigger mouse pad, suggestion for that would be appreciated as well.
> What's your maximum budget?
> $80
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Mine currently has two buttons on the side, I only use one for a mic button, I could live without them if it meant a better overall mouse though.
> What games do you play?
> CS:GO, Overwatch, Rise of Nations, Guild Wars 2, Killing Floor 1/2.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I sounds like it could be a nice option to have, but only as an option.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> I'm right handed and have very large hands as I mentioned before 20.8-21cm length wise and 14.3-14.5cm width so I would like something that will fit my hand comfortably . I currently have Logitech G5 Laser Mouse, its got a decent weight to it without the added weights, which I don't use. My cord is pretty frayed at this point and would hope to find a mouse that doesn't have this issue or otherwise find a way to not let it rub on the corner of the desk as much. I'd prefer something that isn't going to wear down texture wise to much from use, I know some have rubber grips that can do this.
> 
> Lastly I need a new mouse pad as well I don't have a ton of extra space on my desk, but I can move my keyboard slightly and a mouse pad that is a couple inches. I don't want to limit my mousepad choice though based on this desk because I hope to replace it sometime in the near future though so and suggestion in that area would be appreciated. Also as a FYI I'm using a cloth/soft mouse pad so I should probably just stick with that type.






There's the new Cougar Revenger wih the 3360 sensor but no availability yet. You might wanna wait for this.

This is one of the biggest mice available and quite heavy though based on the spec sheets but if the weight is more or less like the G5 you might like it. I remember my g5 was also heavy even without the weights.


----------



## s0rry

my bad i meant the ec1-a dang people chill it was a simple typo


----------



## Trysaeder

What's your grip style? *Claw or palm, can adapt to either depending on the mouse shape*

What's your sensitivity? *800. Would like to keep 1600 open as an option. I use 35-45cm/360.*

What's your maximum budget? *Flexible, but the price has to be justified.*

Do you want additional buttons? *At least 1 thumb button, 2 is preferable.*

What games do you play? *Dota/OW/CS*

Do you mind about prediction? *0 prediction/smoothing/acceleration
*
Other relevant information:

Hand size is 17x8cm

My current gear: Artisan Hayate

Steelseries Sensei - I like how the mass of the mouse is spread and the short travel of the switches. The feet glide smoothly on my mousepad. I think the sensor could be a lot better however the acceleration is tolerable on this pad. I dislike the shape because it forces me to hold it at a slight angle. Both the centre of mass and the sensor are roughly beneath my knuckles which is good. Scroll wheel and finish are terrible.

Corsair M45 - I like the sensor but basically everything else sucks. The travel is too long on the clicks which makes it difficult to shoot only 1 bullet. The feet drag on my mousepad. The centre of mass is much too far forward (1cm in front of the sensor), making it feel like I'm using a fingertip grip even while my palm is in contact with the mouse. In comparison it's below my 1st finger joint. It's also pretty heavy at 95g which makes the problem of its feet and centre of mass even worse. Scroll wheel and finish are great.

Both of these mice have a protrusion to the right and below the RMB next to where I place my 4th finger, which I dislike.

http://i.imgur.com/14vEQ35.png

http://i.imgur.com/29vPIcr.png

The mice I'm looking at right now are the Zowie EC2-A (bad switches?), Logitech G Pro (not out yet, not ergonomic), Roccat Kone pure military (idk?), and Steelseries Rival 300 (steelseries build quality :S). I would like no candidate to have any of the problems I am currently facing with either mouse.


----------



## Bakuryu42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> @Bakuryu42
> 
> There's the new Cougar Revenger wih the 3360 sensor but no availability yet. You might wanna wait for this.
> 
> This is one of the biggest mice available and quite heavy though based on the spec sheets but if the weight is more or less like the G5 you might like it. I remember my g5 was also heavy even without the weights.


The length is a bit longer than my Logitech would could be a good or bad thing, I think it would mean less of my palm actually resting on the mouse pad which could be good (less resistance). The height is also a bit higher than my Logitech which I actually am a little worried about because I worry about the angle my hand will be at from my wrist, but since it is longer it might actually end up being roughly the same since my wrist might not be resting on the pad anymore in which case it won't be an issue. Lastly my last concern is the grip pads on the side, while a nice idea in theory I can see those wearing off really easily from use and I think the Rival has this same problem. I much prefer the idea of a grove for the thumb rather than a grip pad as there isn't anything to wear down, that said I am open to trying it if the mouse feels right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0rry*
> 
> my bad i meant the ec1-a dang people chill it was a simple typo


Wasn't attacking you I kinda figured it was a typo, your actually the second person to recommend the mouse and mess up the number so don't feel bad LOL.

I've been using this as a reference for my sizes and I ended up looking into the Mionix Naos 7000 and the way the mouse looks it looks like it could handle my whole hand comfortably which is really appealing. No rubber grips which is a plus the only downside so far is that so far no one has recommended it and it has a PWM 3310 sensor instead of a 3360. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## soulj4h

What's your grip style? *palm*

What's your sensitivity? *800 primarily but can adapt*

What's your maximum budget? *unlimited*

Do you want additional buttons? *At least 1 thumb button, 2 is preferable.*

What games do you play? *Overwatch*

Do you mind about prediction? *Not sure*

My current gear: *Logitech G9*

Looking for some advice.. I tried upgrading to a Corsair M65 and boy do I regret it. After trying this mouse out for 6 months, the laser went out. I ended up resorting back to my 8 year old g9 and my in game accuracy went up 10%. I'm hoping to find something similar to my old G9 in terms of performance and feel.


----------



## Alya

If you have hands that can fit and want to go wireless, G900.
If you have small-ish hands and want to stay wired, Logitech G Pro.


----------



## soulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you have hands that can fit and want to go wireless, G900.
> If you have small-ish hands and want to stay wired, Logitech G Pro.


handsize is 18x9.5cm (hope I measured it right) prefer wired..


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulj4h*
> 
> handsize is 18x9.5cm (hope I measured it right) prefer wired..


I just noticed you said palm, woops.
Maybe a DM1 Pro S or Nixeus Revel if you prefer wired, do you like the Sensei shape?


----------



## soulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I just noticed you said palm, woops.
> Maybe a DM1 Pro S or Nixeus Revel if you prefer wired, do you like the Sensei shape?


I have a sensei on my other computer and yes it feels alright.. I really just need the back of my hand to lay firm on the pad for control. I had a hard time with the M65 because of this and the length of the buttons. Just never really felt right to me for some reason. Thats primarily why I liked the G9 so much. I could control it alot better since the back of my hand would lay firmly on the pad.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulj4h*
> 
> I have a sensei on my other computer and yes it feels alright.. I really just need the back of my hand to lay firm on the pad for control. I had a hard time with the M65 because of this and the length of the buttons. Just never really felt right to me for some reason. Thats primarily why I liked the G9 so much. I could control it alot better since the back of my hand would lay firmly on the pad.


I have 17.8x8.8cm hands and I can palm the G100s well enough that my hand sits on the pad without being uncomfortable, the Logitech G Pro is coming soon and it has the same dimensions and a slightly wider butt, I think it'll suit you pretty well with how your grip is (palm w/ back of your hand on the pad.)


----------



## soulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I have 17.8x8.8cm hands and I can palm the G100s well enough that my hand sits on the pad without being uncomfortable, the Logitech G Pro is coming soon and it has the same dimensions and a slightly wider butt, I think it'll suit you pretty well with how your grip is (palm w/ back of your hand on the pad.)


Awesome. Thanks for the help!


----------



## s0rry

i heard that mouse isnt that big unless you are clawing it. 3310 sensor is basically as good as the 3360 dont worry. even a 3090 is fine.


----------



## Bakuryu42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0rry*
> 
> i heard that mouse isnt that big unless you are clawing it. 3310 sensor is basically as good as the 3360 dont worry. even a 3090 is fine.


I'm assuming this was directed at me?







. Really because the measurements according to this post its pretty big length and width wise roughly 5mm longer than my Logitech and width is between 8mm smaller and 15mm larger depending on where you measure. My only concern there is my fat fingers being smushed together. Other than that I think it might be the one I try first. I hate not knowing if I will like the feeling before I buy it though.


----------



## WhipeeDip

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 1600-1800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? No budget, but obviously cheaper would be better
Do you want additional buttons? Standard 2 side buttons
What games do you play? CS:GO, Battlefield, other FPSs; RTS, RPGs,
Do you mind about prediction? None please
Other relevant information: Used a CM Storm Spawn until it finally gave up (middle mouse button stopped working, double click on left). I love the shape, but I very much dislike CM software which is why I want to avoid the Xornet II if possible. Is there perhaps any other fingertip mice that previous Spawn/Xornet users have used with 3360/3366? Or any other fingertip recommendations?


----------



## sjzorilla

g302?


----------



## rezot

TL;DR at bottom of post.

Hey, so I'll start off by saying I use the mouse in my left hand. Always have(15+years of pc gaming), and probably always will. [insert 'Too late to change' here etc.]
Now obviously, being left handed i'm essentially excluded to using ambidextrous mice only. Ergonomic right handed mice are too awkward to use effectively, and outside of the RazerDeathAdder3g/Naga, no left handed ergonomic mice with good sensors exist to my knowledge.
I play mainly CS:GO at a high level and accuracy obviously is vitally important. Having to use this mouse with acceleration right now is tilting me beyond belief.

I've been through about 10-15 different mice over the years, and always find myself coming back to smaller shaped mice(~115-120/55-60/35-40).
For those interested(in order):
Razer Zowie Roccat CoolerMaster Mionix
Copperback can't recall
Abyssus good size, awkward shape(front lifted up a lot when clawing it causing LoD issues)
Lachesis can't recall
Deathadder Too big, great ergonomic shape, average sensor
Taipan good size(maybe a bit too big?), perfect shape, awful sensor.
Storm Recon I remember hating this mouse, but I can't recall why.
Kova+ - whoever thought of making their logo literally be engraved into the mouse2 needs to be fired.
Avior8200 - good/too big size, way too flat shape. good sensor (perfect cable also)
Abyssus2014 perfect size, adequate shape, poor sensor.
FK2 good size, great sensor, thumb groove not recessed enough, has side buttons
ZA13 great size, good sensor, bad scroll wheel, has side buttons and the 'hump' is too prominent for my liking.
Krait2013(current daily driver,) perfect size/shape, but the sensor has too much acceleration, and build quality is abysmal.

As said above, my current daily driver is the Razer Krait 4g, however I am not satisfied with the sensor. There is too much acceleration(both negative AND positive), and there's the whole **** build quality of razer, but I won't get into that, as I assume everyone has experienced it in the past).
Just for reference, here it is next to a Zowie ZA13 and Zowie FK2.
12345

Here's my grip:
Top
Ring/Pinky
Front
Thumb
Bottom
Bonus angle(palm kind of touching rear)
Personally i'd say i'm somewhere between fingertip and claw (Hands are 18cm by 9cm)

TL;DR:
Vital
Left handed ergonomic*or* ambidextrous mouse with a recessed groove on the right hand side.
Dimensions should be around 115-120 * 55-60 * 35-40 and 70-90grams
It's vital it has a good sensor. No acceleration/smoothing/prediction/angle snapping/high LoD issues
Bonus
Grooves in m1/m2 would be pretty cool.
Preferred no thumb buttons, but they can always be removed.
Preferred non-glossy finish, can always be sanded and repainted though
Braided cable would be nice, but not a necessity, I can always make my own.
Huano switches, but again, I can always swap them in, if needed.
Irrelevant
Don't care about DPI buttons/switches etc.
Not worried about software.
Price is not an issue.

My initial thoughts are Abyssus2014v2, however I've heard that the sensor is pretty bad.... so I don't know whether to even bother.
so that leads me to think about the logitech G Pro. It seems to have the most of my unrealistic demands, I could always whip out the dremel and zombify what's missing.

Anyone got any better suggestions, or should I just try it?

Thanks - Andy


----------



## DogeJay

Please help me guys. I've already tried a lot of of mouses and still didn't find the right one

What's your grip style? *Palm*
What's your sensitivity? *400-800 dpi*
What's your maximum budget? *Doesn't matter*
Do you want additional buttons? *Only 2 on the side*
What games do you play? *CS GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Don't want it*
Other relevant information:

Hand length: *21 cm*

Mice I had and my impressions on it:
*SS Rival 300* - nice button feeling, but not comfortable (too narrow front).
*Razer DA Chroma* - didn't like the shape.
*Zowie ZA11* - Great shape, fits perfectly. But on the other hand too stiff buttons and bad scroll.
*DM1 Pro S* - no no no no...
*Rival 100* - nice buttons, but too small (too flat).
*Zowie EC1-A* - shape was ok, but the buttons were too soft and that awful scroll...
*Mionix Avior 7000* - great buttons and scroll, but the shape weren't comfortable.
*Logitech G303* - great buttons, but too small.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rezot*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> TL;DR at bottom of post.
> 
> Hey, so I'll start off by saying I use the mouse in my left hand. Always have(15+years of pc gaming), and probably always will. [insert 'Too late to change' here etc.]
> Now obviously, being left handed i'm essentially excluded to using ambidextrous mice only. Ergonomic right handed mice are too awkward to use effectively, and outside of the RazerDeathAdder3g/Naga, no left handed ergonomic mice with good sensors exist to my knowledge.
> I play mainly CS:GO at a high level and accuracy obviously is vitally important. Having to use this mouse with acceleration right now is tilting me beyond belief.
> 
> I've been through about 10-15 different mice over the years, and always find myself coming back to smaller shaped mice(~115-120/55-60/35-40).
> For those interested(in order):
> Razer Zowie Roccat CoolerMaster Mionix
> Copperback can't recall
> Abyssus good size, awkward shape(front lifted up a lot when clawing it causing LoD issues)
> Lachesis can't recall
> Deathadder Too big, great ergonomic shape, average sensor
> Taipan good size(maybe a bit too big?), perfect shape, awful sensor.
> Storm Recon I remember hating this mouse, but I can't recall why.
> Kova+ - whoever thought of making their logo literally be engraved into the mouse2 needs to be fired.
> Avior8200 - good/too big size, way too flat shape. good sensor (perfect cable also)
> Abyssus2014 perfect size, adequate shape, poor sensor.
> FK2 good size, great sensor, thumb groove not recessed enough, has side buttons
> ZA13 great size, good sensor, bad scroll wheel, has side buttons and the 'hump' is too prominent for my liking.
> Krait2013(current daily driver,) perfect size/shape, but the sensor has too much acceleration, and build quality is abysmal.
> 
> As said above, my current daily driver is the Razer Krait 4g, however I am not satisfied with the sensor. There is too much acceleration(both negative AND positive), and there's the whole **** build quality of razer, but I won't get into that, as I assume everyone has experienced it in the past).
> Just for reference, here it is next to a Zowie ZA13 and Zowie FK2.
> 12345
> 
> Here's my grip:
> Top
> Ring/Pinky
> Front
> Thumb
> Bottom
> Bonus angle(palm kind of touching rear)
> Personally i'd say i'm somewhere between fingertip and claw (Hands are 18cm by 9cm)
> 
> TL;DR:
> Vital
> Left handed ergonomic*or* ambidextrous mouse with a recessed groove on the right hand side.
> Dimensions should be around 115-120 * 55-60 * 35-40 and 70-90grams
> It's vital it has a good sensor. No acceleration/smoothing/prediction/angle snapping/high LoD issues
> Bonus
> Grooves in m1/m2 would be pretty cool.
> Preferred no thumb buttons, but they can always be removed.
> Preferred non-glossy finish, can always be sanded and repainted though
> Braided cable would be nice, but not a necessity, I can always make my own.
> Huano switches, but again, I can always swap them in, if needed.
> Irrelevant
> Don't care about DPI buttons/switches etc.
> Not worried about software.
> Price is not an issue.
> 
> My initial thoughts are Abyssus2014v2, however I've heard that the sensor is pretty bad.... so I don't know whether to even bother.
> so that leads me to think about the logitech G Pro. It seems to have the most of my unrealistic demands, I could always whip out the dremel and zombify what's missing.
> 
> Anyone got any better suggestions, or should I just try it?
> 
> Thanks - Andy


Yeah, I'd say go G Pro. At this point, there's no reason to bother with other mice until you've at least tried it.


----------



## Pulkovnick

Hello,

Firstly i have to say that i need your help because i have tested a bit of mouses and i can't get "the right one".

*What's your grip style?*

claw but i'm *1+3+1* type and that makes small mouses to hurt my little finger.

*What's your sensitivity?*

about 1000-1200 dpi

*What's your maximum budget?*

150$

*Do you want additional buttons?*

2 on left side (others can be but i won't use them anyways)

*What games do you play?
*
mainly fps, sometimes Moba and others

*Do you mind about prediction?*

No prediction is better right?

*Other relevant information:*

Here comes the mouses i tested:

Roccat Kone XTD Optical - a bit too heavy, also bulky
Roccat Kone Military - can't grip it comfortably
Zowie FK2 - way too narrow
Mionix Avior - Remember it as kinda OK size but clicks are awful
Logitech g100s - too narrow
Logitech g303 - awkward shape
Logitech g502 - Too heavy, shape and scroll wheel is not for me
Logitech g900 - Bit too bulky and heavy
Steelseries Rival - Could play with it quite comfortably but those rubber sides are bad imo
Steelseries Sensei - too heavy, shape bit worse than avior but still ok
Razer Mamba Tournament Edition - Remember it as good shape but sensor was really bad

*Summary*:
Shape - probably Avior was the best so far
Buttons - Logitech G303 and Roccat Kone
Weight - Less than 100g

Also i would like the lowest possible click latency.

Thanks for help


----------



## nidzakv

Is there a mouse, with Finalmouse egro shape, and 3360 sensor?

Lightweight ofc...


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nidzakv*
> 
> Is there a mouse, with Finalmouse egro shape, and 3360 sensor?
> 
> Lightweight ofc...


http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one-unveiled-by-scream


----------



## nidzakv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one-unveiled-by-scream


Yes, but this tournament pro shape, not ergo


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nidzakv*
> 
> Yes, but this tournament pro shape, not ergo


It was also a joke.

*EDIT: in one way or the other.*


----------



## nidzakv

Ok, thanks for sugestion.


----------



## tygz

hey guys I wanted to buy a new mouse and I've been reading the threads here for like 2-3 days (Jalal is a god?). Problem is theres massive amounts of content scattered around the board so for a quick recap I wanted to see what do you suggest me to buy.
I've had intelli3 for 5 years and then g400 (the old version with the cord problem and prediction) for another 5 years.
so medium,large size and usually fingertip grip.
sens varies according to my mood (ikr?)
like 100$ tops i think. though I can't buy any brand I desire because of my country's problems and stuff. I can only buy: logitech,razer,tTesports,a4tech,microsoft,steelseries,genius,corsair,asus,marvo,coolermaster. so no zowie or finalmouse for me. i could order them but it will be the last resort (if zowie has the ultimate godlike mouse)
and i'd rather play without predicion or at least be able to turn it off.
don't mind anything else, just as long as I can play csgo and quake with it.


----------



## Lightwolf219

What's your grip style?
Fingertip and a little claw
What's your sensitivity?
DPI of 1600 is ideal, but 800 should be fine too
What's your maximum budget?
~$60. I can go higher, but I assume anything above this price point will have crap I don't want.
Do you want additional buttons?
No.
What games do you play?
FPS is probably the only one that matters. No MOBA or anything.
Do you mind about prediction?
I want the data as raw as it gets. No smoothing or prediction crap.
Other relevant information:
Ambidextrous and light.
I really just want a light, plain mouse that has no extra crap on the sensor.


----------



## daniel0731ex

G Pro.


----------



## Fckbutton

EC1-A maybe? Similar type of shape as Rival, only a bit smaller and no rubber


----------



## Newwt

[*] What's your grip style? palm/fingertip
[*] What's your sensitivity?medium
[*] What's your maximum budget? $80 can go higher but don't want too spend more
[*] Do you want additional buttons? 2-4
[*] What games do you play? PoE, Dota,FPS
[*] Do you mind about prediction? unk
[*] Other relevant information:
right handed,currently using a Logitech G500 it feels nice, but is now disgusting and starting to fail. I was looking at the Rival 300, but also just noticed the zowie EC series.


----------



## DmxDex

Hand size medium to large, about 19 to 20 cm from index to wrist. Combo of claw and palm. Just not sure which mouse would suit my hand and grip, Any suggestions.


----------



## Trilandian

*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip.

*What's your sensitivity?*

1,500 CPI.

*What's your maximum budget?*

~$150

*Do you want additional buttons?*

One on each side, near the top.

*What games do you play?*

Nowadays, mostly CCG's. I also play the occasional FPS and RTS.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

Don't know. Haven't had any experience with it.

*Other relevant information:*

Last three mice were SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] Rubberized. It feels and handles great, but the pervasive scroll wheel issues made me give up on it. I'm looking for something that feels similar but while being much more reliable.

P.S. No wireless.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trilandian*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip.
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1,500 CPI.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> ~$150
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> One on each side, near the top.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Nowadays, mostly CCG's. I also play the occasional FPS and RTS.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> Don't know. Haven't had any experience with it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Last three mice were SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] Rubberized. It feels and handles great, but the pervasive scroll wheel issues made me give up on it. I'm looking for something that feels similar but while being much more reliable.
> 
> P.S. No wireless.


The only mouse that has 1 button on both sides that comes to mind is Kana/Kana v2, but they dont make them anymore.
However DM1 Pro is a decent clone of sensei shape, just has buttons on only one side. Also check EVGA X5, Mionix Avior.


----------



## Trilandian

Thanks a lot. Ended up buying the Avior 7000. Amazon happened to have a 15% discount too.


----------



## Anormal

Hey, I hope you can help me with some recommendations









*What's your grip style?
*Palm Grip

*What's your sensitivity?
*Around 25-30cm for 360*

*What's your maximum budget?
*~50€ (but less wouldnt be bad)

*Do you want additional buttons?
*2 (or more) would be nice but not necessary

*What games do you play?
*Mainly Overwatch

*Do you mind about prediction?
*Since I want to mainly play Overwatch (FPS) with this mouse it would be bad, right? So no?

*Other relevant information:
*The mouse shouldnt be too little and not too lightweight.
At the moment i use a "Tecknet Raptor" which feels fairly well in my hand but since its only 8$ i guess the sensor is somewhat bad.
I also tried the "Roccat Pyra" but its way too little for my preferredgrip style.

Im looking forward to your suggestions!


----------



## twerk

I would like a suggestion for a wireless mouse to use at work please. It won't be used for games so the usual questions don't really apply.

Something plain and non "gamery" that is comfortable for long periods of time. Precise movement on the desktop would be good but again, I'm not playing games so a 3366 or other precision sensor is not essential!


----------



## sjzorilla

Something plain and non "gamery" that is comfortable for long periods of time. Precise movement on the desktop would be good but again, I'm not playing games so a 3366 or other precision sensor is not essential!
[/quote]

logitech g602?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I would like a suggestion for a wireless mouse to use at work please. It won't be used for games so the usual questions don't really apply.
> 
> Something plain and non "gamery" that is comfortable for long periods of time. Precise movement on the desktop would be good but again, I'm not playing games so a 3366 or other precision sensor is not essential!


M705 or G602 like above

Edit: M720, too


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> Something plain and non "gamery" that is comfortable for long periods of time. Precise movement on the desktop would be good but again, I'm not playing games so a 3366 or other precision sensor is not essential!


logitech g602?[/QUOTE]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> M705 or G602 like above
> 
> Edit: M720, too


Of course it's a very subjective requirement but I think the G602 does have a gaming sort of look.

I've been looking at the MX Master but there seem to a be a lot of concerns around scroll wheel reliability.

The M705 looks interesting, seems quite small though.


----------



## m0uz

The MX Master appears to have a motorised method of switching between free spin and notched mode. Other Logi mice that have the 2 mode scroll wheel use a sort of lever mechanism to pull it out and push it back in. The motor is what seems to be causing the problems.


----------



## t1mch3

I'm looking for a new mouse, but it's very difficult to find the right one, so that's why I reach out to you









*What's your grip style?*
I'm switching between claw and fingertip on vertical movements during gaming.

*What's your sensitivity?*
I'd say medium (2.4/400 dpi/500 hz in CS:GO)

*What's your maximum budget?*
80/90 Euros

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Only side-buttons, but not required.

*What games do you play?*
CS:GO

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't want prediction at all for exact tracking (I'm a semi-pro player).

*Other relevant information:*
I'm currently using a Kana v2 (glossy-white) since 2013 and I'm really satisfied with it, but I feel like I could replace it with something better, since the sensor isn't the best and it was more or less a low-/mid-budget mouse by SteelSeries since then. So new mouse should have a similar shape and size and a light clicking for spamming like the Kana v2. Also a glossy surface is really good for me, because my hands are most of the time dry and the glossy surface gives me a good grip.

I've already tried out these mouses:

2016 September: SteelSeries Rival 300 (glossy-white)
2016 April: Zowie FK2 (2016 version)
2016 January: Zowie FK2 (old version)
2015 December: Zowie ZA12 (old version)
2015 December: Zowie ZA13 (old version)
2015 December: Zowie EC2-A
2015 May: Zowie FK1
2015 May: Zowie FK2
2014 December: Zowie EC2 eVo
2014 August: SteelSeries Rival
2014 May: Zowie FK
2013 August: SteelSeries Sensei (raw)
2012 July: Zowie AM
The SteelSeries mouses didn't had the right shape and the Zowie mouses either had a bad shape or/and the clicking was too hard. Only the Zowie FK2 has a very similar shape like the Kana v2, but the clicking was too hard for me as well. I couldn't get used to it.

I've been using these mouses before the Kana v2:

Kana v1 (glossy-white)
Kinzu v1
MS Intelli 1.1
I feel like there is no other mouse that can replace the Kana v2, so any suggestions are really helpful!

Edit: I just read about the Rival 100, but the sensor seems to be really awful.


----------



## JsBee

*What's your grip style?* I've been forced to use a fingertip grip with just about every mouse i've used but I can adjust to a palm or claw if necessary.

*What's your sensitivity?* 800 dpi

*What's your maximum budget?* Willing to spend anything

*Do you want additional buttons?* Anything with 2 side buttons is good enough for me

*What games do you play?* I play LoL and CS:GO every day

*Do you mind about prediction?* No prediction at all.

*Other relevant information:* Anything optical will do. Ive used about every top optical sensor there is and the 3366/3989 in the DA Chroma felt the best to me.

Ive used the DA Chroma, Rival 300, EC1-A and FK1+, G303, Abyssus v2 and Sabre Optical. Also used the G402, G900 and Finalmouse Ergo 2016 very briefly. Currently trying out the G Pro but it feels too small. Hand size is 21.5cm by 11cm wide.

I've been on the journey to find the right mouse for me and have always been making compromises with the ones i've used. Out of all the mice i've tried above the DA and EC1-A were the most comfortable to use along with the Rival 300. The 300 was too narrow where my thumb and ring/pinky rested so my hand would cramp up and thats why I stopped using it. The EC1-A was great in pretty much every aspect but the clicks were too stiff to spam click and use in LoL which is why I put it away. The only negative I had with the DA was the side grips becoming way too slippery for me and I had gone through one before(right click got really loose and started double clicking). It was a little too short too but was wide enough.

I would LOVE to hear what people with larger hands are using because i'm starting to think that i'm getting too picky or my hands are just too huge lol.


----------



## sakis_the_fraud

Hello!

I am finally looking for a new mouse, since my old and trusty "Microsoft Sidewinder X5" is dying slowly in my hand.

Here are the answers to the basic questions:

*What's your grip style?*
Palm Grip

*What's your sensitivity?*
maxed out at 2000dpi

*What's your maximum budget?*
max 65 euros

*Do you want additional buttons?*
apart from the standard left-middle-right i also want back-front on the thumb and a way to change dpi without entering the software.
I don't care if it is with dedicated buttons for profiles, or you go up down or you cycle through them.

*What games do you play?*
Mainly FPS like CoD.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
I don't want any.

Other relevant information:
-right hand only
-with cable
-optical only
-weights
if possible, RGB lightning, it isn't a deal-breaker for me, but it is a welcome extra








Here are the dimensions of my current mouse:
Quote:


> Product Dimensions
> Mouse Length 5.07 inches (129 millimeters)
> Mouse Width 3.06 inches (77.7 millimeters)
> Mouse Depth/Height 1.61 inches (40.9 millimeters)
> Mouse Weight 5.70 ounces (162 grams)


I would like it to be a little lighter and a little shorter, shorter is easy, but since I don't know how much lighter, weights is the only option.

The first thing that failed on my current mouse, was the rubber around the scroll wheel, the last year i am scrolling by touching the plastic core of the wheel...
So on my new one, I would like the wheel to have something durable.

After a small research the Logitech G502 Proteus seems ideal, but its over my budget.









any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## st0necold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sakis_the_fraud*
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I am finally looking for a new mouse, since my old and trusty "Microsoft Sidewinder X5" is dying slowly in my hand.
> 
> Here are the answers to the basic questions:
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm Grip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> maxed out at 2000dpi
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> max 65 euros
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> apart from the standard left-middle-right i also want back-front on the thumb and a way to change dpi without entering the software.
> I don't care if it is with dedicated buttons for profiles, or you go up down or you cycle through them.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS like CoD.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> I don't want any.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> -right hand only
> -with cable
> -optical only
> -weights
> if possible, RGB lightning, it isn't a deal-breaker for me, but it is a welcome extra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the dimensions of my current mouse:
> I would like it to be a little lighter and a little shorter, shorter is easy, but since I don't know how much lighter, weights is the only option.
> 
> The first thing that failed on my current mouse, was the rubber around the scroll wheel, the last year i am scrolling by touching the plastic core of the wheel...
> So on my new one, I would like the wheel to have something durable.
> 
> *After a small research the Logitech G502 Proteus seems ideal, but its over my budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> any other suggestions?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!


Bro I just got one at BestBuy for $53.00 check your local BestBuy


----------



## sakis_the_fraud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *st0necold*
> 
> Bro I just got one at BestBuy for $53.00 check your local BestBuy


I wish i had a shop like this around me!

Here in Europe (In Greece especially) the prices are a bit bumped up!

the cheaper i can buy is at 69 euros from amazon.de, add to this 8-10 euros shipping and you get the EU price


----------



## spaghettiman

I saw some people say the deathadder was too short/didn't have enough room to grip and were looking for a good replacement.

Now, I have some pretty odd hands with a fat thumb (19.7cm x 11.4cm), but I like a mouse that I have a ton of room to grip on with my long skinny fingers. The main issue with the deathadder for me was thumb space: the grip only got half my thumb, while the other half rested on the side buttons. The main reason why this is an issue for me is because I don't want any of my fingers touching the mousepad, just my wrist (with a relaxed fingertip grip). The best mouse I've found thus far is the SS Rival oddly enough. I had heard the the grip width was smaller than the deathadder, but since the majority of my grip is at the back of the mouse, the rival has fit me the best so far. There is sooo much room for my thumb so I can easily have it raised above the mousepad without any worries of accidental side button clicks.

Even though the rival is good for general windows use, I think it's a bit hard for me to get accurate flicks due to its length and my odd grip, but compared to the deathadder it's way more comfy for me. I'd recommend trying one out in your local electronics store.

On another note I've been looking into getting a naga/naos but I don't know how I'd feel about the forced grip areas on those mice, has anyone compared them to a deathadder/rival?


----------



## ithehappy

Guys please help me to find a good mouse for my friend, who has been asking me for a suggestion, but I don't know much! Filling up the details below.

What's your grip style?
- Fingertip mainly.

What's your sensitivity?
- He is a CS player and I think he plays at 800 PPI @1080p, if that matters.

What's your maximum budget?
- 2000-2500 INR (~35 Euro)

Do you want additional buttons?
- Yes, he uses the side buttons, both two of them, at left side (which are generally set as Back and Forward on most mice)

What games do you play?
- CS (Don't know what kind)

Do you mind about prediction?
- He would like the have the best possible sensor at that price because he is kind of semi-pro gamer.

Other relevant information:
- Something which will be really lightweight and comes in small size. Something exactly opposite of the shape and size of the sorts like G400s, G5s etc. And he has changed four mice in less than two years I think, so something which will have decent enough build quality. And the skates have to glide smoothly too, he plays on a cloth like mat I think, some hybrid sort.


----------



## dropadred

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ithehappy*
> 
> Guys please help me to find a good mouse for my friend, who has been asking me for a suggestion, but I don't know much! Filling up the details below.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - Fingertip mainly.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> - He is a CS player and I think he plays at 800 PPI @1080p, if that matters.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> - 2000-2500 INR (~35 Euro)
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - Yes, he uses the side buttons, both two of them, at left side (which are generally set as Back and Forward on most mice)
> 
> What games do you play?
> - CS (Don't know what kind)
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - He would like the have the best possible sensor at that price because he is kind of semi-pro gamer.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> - Something which will be really lightweight and comes in small size. Something exactly opposite of the shape and size of the sorts like G400s, G5s etc. And he has changed four mice in less than two years I think, so something which will have decent enough build quality. And the skates have to glide smoothly too, he plays on a cloth like mat I think, some hybrid sort.


https://www.massdrop.com/buy/nixeus-revel-optical-gaming-mouse-pmw3360
33$ - the only question then is, what the shipping to the India will cost like.


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

d


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Are there any mice that are known to be more resistant to doubleclicking issues than others?
> I don't know if it's because I press the buttons too hard or not, but my Zowie FK 2013, and two separate G303's both developed doubleclick issues after 6-12 months.
> 
> I just want a mouse with buttons that will last as long as possible.
> As an aside I prefer smaller/light mice. I'm eyeing the ECA-2 right now.


That would be Bloody's optical switches. Too bad their choice of sensors isn't the best.


----------



## ithehappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Are there any mice that are known to be more resistant to doubleclicking issues than others?
> I don't know if it's because I press the buttons too hard or not, but my Zowie FK 2013, and two separate G303's both developed doubleclick issues after 6-12 months.
> 
> I just want a mouse with buttons that will last as long as possible.
> As an aside I prefer smaller/light mice. I'm eyeing the ECA-2 right now.


Nope, I don't believe so. I was looking for exact same thing, it made sense to me investing much more behind a mouse which will last more than standard ones, I was suggested the Mionix Avior 7000, paid over 100 Euros for that, and in the end it started to have the double click issue much faster than other mice I have used before, and it also brought along a new problem, the scroll wheel was also f***ed up. Now I simply don't believe any brand any more at all. Will pay the cheapest possible amount to invest behind a brand with maximum warranty.


----------



## MViper

Hey lads.

I've been reading this forums for a while. Now it's time to register and ask I question if you don't mind.









I'm not pro gamer. Sometimes I'm playing 3-4 hours per day, sometimes 6-8, sometimes nothing (office works).

My gamers mouse history:
- Taipan (happy with shape, buttons, materials, not happy with switches. I got used to sensor, it's decent for my use),
- G300 (backup mouse),
- Kova+ (I liked the sensor, but switches went double clicking, rubbery coating was going off on both sides and then some day it just died after 2 yrs)
- old Imperator (****e, poor shape and I hate that sensor)
- DA 3G Lefty (love it, shape and sensor, except for switches and rubbery coating is peeling off)
- Lachesis (****e, same things as imperator)
- DA (original, right handed, great, except shape ofc),
- Diamondback (only razer that still runs),
- G5 (hated shape, materials and side buttons
- MX500 (same as G5)
- MS Intelli Explorer (great mouse)

*What's your grip style?*
Something between fingertip (70%) and claw (30%)

*What's your sensitivity?*
3000 dpi, 1000hz

*What's your maximum budget?*
150 eur

*Do you want additional buttons?*
It would be helpful to have 2 buttons on each side. But it's not deal breaker

*What games do you play?*
All around performance is something I'm looking for. I play warthunder, left 4 dead, football managers, latest FPS..

*Do you mind about prediction?*
No, as little as possible please.

*Other relevant information:*
- I'm lefty. I'm looking for ambidex. mouse.
- So far I come up with Avior (I think it's closest to my needs, but not sure), X5, new Kova (I'm afraid of build quality. First one sucked), G pro (not sure I like that shape)
- I hate smooth and hard to press scroll wheels.
- I don't like smooth, polished surfaces. But if a mouse is really great, I can get used to it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## crowstar

*[*] What's your grip style?
*sort of fingertip/claw, palm rarely touches rear of mouse at all. 18cm long, 9cm wide hand
*[*] What's your sensitivity?
*about 31cm/360, 800dpi, cs 1.7
*[*] What's your maximum budget?
*~£60, could go higher for eg logitech pro
*[*] Do you want additional buttons?
*not too bothered, wouldn't want to impede on weight by having loads of buttons
*[*] What games do you play?
*quake, cs
*[*] Do you mind about prediction?
*no prediction
*[*] Other relevant information:
*loved my wmo, using a g400 atm but the little ridge on the right is annoying. a wmo-like shape would be good but I'm open to say g100s shape.
*[*] Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*perfect sensor + good fingertip shape is all I need.


----------



## Jestercore

1.What's your grip style?
*Fingertip grip*

2. What's your sensitivity?
*Low, mid*

3. What's your maximum budget?
*Lower - better, very limited*

4. Do you want additional buttons?
*Not critical*

5. What games do you play?
*CS:GO*

6. Do you mind about prediction?
*No prediction please*

7. Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.
*1000HZ polling rate*
Current mouse: XL-755K with dying wheel. Using it with 800 dpi (relatively accurate at this resolution and have some like max 2.27 m\s)

_G303?_


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jestercore*
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> *Fingertip grip*
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> *Low, mid*
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> *Lower - better, very limited*
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> *Not critical*
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> *CS:GO*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> *No prediction please*
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.
> *1000HZ polling rate*
> Current mouse: XL-755K with dying wheel. Using it with 800 dpi (relatively accurate at this resolution and have some like max 2.27 m\s)
> 
> _G303?_


Best budget mice with good sensors are Nixeus Revel and EVGA X5 Optical right now.


----------



## MrCuriosity1992

1.What's your grip style?
*I`m playing with Palm Grip*

2.What's your sensitivity?
*900-1200 dpi, 5/10 at windows*

3.What's your maximum budget?
*90€ (100$)*

4.Do you want additional buttons?
*i wouldnt mind. doesnt matter*

5.What games do you play?
*im playing mostly League of Legends*

6.Do you mind about prediction?
*no*

7.Other relevant information:
*its a replacement fpr my old naga 2012, i used the biggest of the 3 side panels. i tried a g502 from logitech, but its not as wide as the naga with the big side panel.*


----------



## yasmas1

oof


----------



## ElevenEleven

I don't know if I'm just not trying good laser sensor mice, but I have a limited budget and keep my mice for a long time once purchased, so I haven't tried that many. I used and absolutely loved the tracking of my old Logitech MX518 mouse. But absolutely hated its shape--the sharp edges were cutting into my right ring finger badly, and overall it was uncomfortable. But the tracking was so so accurate and just comfortable.

I "upgraded" to some laser mice, the latest (albeit a while ago now) a Logitech G600--that one because I wanted to try out the many-button layout in an MMO setting. Not only can I not use most of the side buttons on the G600 due to the weirdly uncomfortable grip on the mouse as it is--I can only reliably click on "G9" and "G12" buttons without concentrating--but the tracking is just bleh! I've tried fine-tuning windows and mouse software settings to improve tracking, and also different DPI settings. I've used the latest firmware, just not getting the reliably smooth and accurate results of my old MX518.

Is that the difference between good "optical" and [optical] laser sensors of previous generations? Will the latest generation laser sensors be much better or should I just get another optical mouse?

What I'm looking for is a mouse that has more than the standard 7 buttons, but not necessarily many more than that. Like 9 buttons would be plenty. It must have a tilt wheel. Also it needs to cost $60 or less on the used market, or thereabouts new. Logitech G502 has been a contender, but I'm reading that some think of it as being too heavy.

My mouse pad is a Monoprice aluminum dual-sided coated pad, with one side being less dimply but slightly rougher, and the other side being more "dimply" but the dimples are smoother. Different mice I've used like different sides more.

. . .

_What's your grip style?_ - *currently palm with G600 because it's so large, but I'm open to other shapes*

_What's your sensitivity?_ - *medium/low* - needs to track accurately and smoothly, but I do use a 2560x1440 monitor for gaming and photo editing

_What's your maximum budget?_ - *$65* (includes refurbs / gently used on eBay)

_Do you want additional buttons?_ - *yes, minimum of 8-9*

_What games do you play?_ - *Mostly MMOs but also I do a lot of photo editing*

_Do you mind about prediction?_ - *would prefer to just have accurate tracking, MX518-style*

_Other relevant information_: *Loved MX518 tracking, hated some of its shape aspects and inadequate number of buttons. Right-handed, no preference on wired/wireless, prefer non-black options. Not too tough side buttons. Need tilt wheel!!!*


----------



## Menthalion

I'd suggest looking into a gaming key pad like the G13, Razer Tartarus or Razer Orbweaver Stealth to use instead of extra mouse buttons.

Put WASD on the thumbstick, bind the leftmost column of keys to ctrl/alt/shift, and a 3x4 block of keys next to it from '1' to '=' and you have 4 WoW hotbars with only needing to displace any finger at most one key, and keys to spare (except for the Tartarus, in which case you have just enough).

When I still had time to avidly play MMO's, I found it improved my play greatly after only a few hours . Multi-thumb-button mice are no match for the coordination of WASD on a thumb button and 4 fingers per hotbar. Throw in a GUI mod for a 3x4 hotbar instead of 1x12 and it's perfection.

You can then just buy a conventional 6 button 'flawless' mouse to accompany it. There's a bigger choice with superior price, performance and grip. The life expectancy of the keypads is a lot better than a mouse, so it will save you in the long run. You won't have to get used to new mouse button layouts in future either.

With the extra cost on a 12 button MMO mouse, you've saved the cost of a game key pad within 2 mice. In the 8 years I owned the Logitech G13, I went through at least 4-5 mice due to cord, wheel and click failures. Chances of that happening on more complicated mice would be higher. Keyboard tech changes at a glacial pace compared to mice as well.

I have owned the G13 for 8 years, used it for 6 and it is built like a brick, only showing some wear on the thumbstick and the silver plaque flaking after a conservatively estimated 4000 hours play. You do need large hands to operate it comfortably, and even then it's key placement could be a lot better (which made me switch to Razer).

The Razers are adaptable to different hand sizes and have superior ergonomics. My Orbweaver is still working and looking as good as it did 3 years ago, it just doesn't feel as solid. I have played less the last 3 years though. Software is more or less equal, though I miss the Lua scriptability of the G13 occasionally.

As a former graphic designer and 3d modeller, I can guarantee it would be a far better fit for these kinds of programs too. You can use the thumbstick for panning / zooming. Setting things up for a completely new type of program might take 15 mins, but for most shooters and MMO's I have one layout and change the ingame settings in 2. For others you can copy one of your templates and tweak it somewhere in between.

My perfect setup now is the Orbweaver Stealth (MX Brown switches instead of the louder MX Blues) and a Logitech G403. This would set you back for €200 new / $100 used on Ebay, but a budget version could be the Tartarus (Fixed lights, membrane, 5 keys less than Orbweaver) and Logitech G303 for €120 new / $80 on Ebay.


----------



## ElevenEleven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> I'd suggest looking into a gaming key pad like the G13, Razer Tartarus or Razer Orbweaver Stealth to use instead of extra mouse buttons. [snip]


Thank you for the detailed recommendations--that's certainly food for thought! I'm rather attached to my customized mechanical keyboard, so I would like to stick with it, but I'll think about a gaming pad.


----------



## Menthalion

Yeah, I might sound a bit zealous, but it's been the gaming peripheral with the most impact I ever bought. Mice have been more of an evolution









Still wonderin if a brain and hand could handle a mouse with a thumb stick (only ever saw one but could never get hold of it), so my mechanical keyboard could also get more time during play.


----------



## jvanalst

What's your grip style?
*Palm Grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*Whatever's the default. On rare twitch based occassions more sensitive.*
What's your maximum budget?
*Undefined. Integer expected, but you sent string 'null'.*
Do you want additional buttons?
*Maybe? I won't mind having extra buttons if they were actually usable for any length of time. My experience with extra buttons is that thumb and middle finger buttons aren't remotely ergonomic and so painful to use.*
What games do you play?
*Diablo, MMOs, RPGs, Casual Stuff (Sims, Binding of Isaac, Telltale stuff), RTS's, FPSs. (In Order of Importance/Frequency)*
Do you mind about prediction?
*No idea.*
Other relevant information:
*I'm finally ready to replace my 10 year old Logitech G9X. It had a good run, but the drivers just aren't there for it anymore now that I'm using Windows 10. It's also kind of gross after 10 years of continual use.*


----------



## SamMeeDee

What's your grip style?
*Palm Grip/Claw Grip*
What's your sensitivity?
*I run a 3500 dpi at 1800 right now (Razer Abyssus from 2012), so I'm not looking for off the scale stuff. 10k or less*
What's your maximum budget?
*75 or less*
Do you want additional buttons?
*I run a three button, but I've been curious about 5 button. So 3-5.*
What games do you play?
*FPS (not competitively), RPGs (usually open world, Witcher, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc), Third Person Shooters, various other genres. But again, nothing competitively.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*No idea.*
Other relevant information:
*I'm finally ready to replace my 4 year old Razer Abyssus, because the scroll wheel crapped out on me. As such, I'm leaning toward them. I like the length of Razer's stuff, so keep that in mind, though I'm open to change if the other features are there. Also, I have no real preference for wired vs wireless, as long as the wireless functionality can cut the mustard. *


----------



## Vario

edit: never mind content with Zowie ZA13, it is nearly the same size and shape as Microsoft Basic Optical (mini cheapo version of Wheel Mouse Optical) but with incredible sensor, good clicky buttons, and average wheel.


----------



## Butthurt Beluga

Hey guys, I'm on the hunt for the right mouse for me.

The "must have" attributes the mouse *MUST* have are:

Programmable buttons
At least two thumb-buttons (right-handed mouse)
Optical
*What's your grip style?*
Claw grip.
*What's your sensitivity?*
Not too important.
*What's your maximum budget?*
Preferably around $50, but if it's the right mouse for me then I will spend up to $150.
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes. At least two buttons on the thumb-side of the mouse (right handed)
*What games do you play?*
Overwatch, Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance, Cataclysm: DDA, World of Warcraft: Legion, Warcraft III, Battlerite, God Eater 2, (soon: Shadow Warrior 2, Space Hulk Deathwing)
FPS, RTS, TPS, MOBA, etc..
*Do you mind about prediction?*
I prefer no prediction but I'm not too anal about it.
*Other relevant information:*
Prefer right-handed shape; Claw grip orientation; prefer non-glossy but am willing to make exceptions; anything else I am not too picky about.

Feedback is appreciated, thanks!


----------



## Just1s

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?*
Not really important
*What's your maximum budget?*
100€
*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 side buttons, don't care about any others.
*What games do you play?*
FPS games
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Rather no prediction.
*Other relevant information:*
Was mostly looking at Zowie FK2/1 or Logitech G403(Maybe G Pro), but can't decide between those.


----------



## Edyet

What's your grip style?
FingerTip
What's your sensitivity?
Around Low to Med
What's your maximum budget?
no budget willing to pay well for great mouse
Do you want additional buttons?
i don't care for additional buttons, but i dont mind them either
What games do you play?
Battlefield 1
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't like prediction
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I'd prefer driverless. Lightweight. Wired. I have larger hands so I prefer larger mice if possible.
Thx for any reply.


----------



## Zanuan

*What's your grip style?*
Palm Grip
*What's your sensitivity?*
Lower end of the scale. Keep my DPI at 1000 but often have pretty low sens in game.
*What's your maximum budget?*
~$150
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I always bind melee to a thumb button. I'd want 2-4 buttons.
*What games do you play?*
Mostly FPS
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes I mind it, mouse must be as accurate as possible to raw input.
*Other relevant information:*
Ready to upgrade my ANKER 8200 DPI mouse. Never needed any more than 1000 tbh. I game very competitively so every bit of quality counts.


----------



## turnschuh

Hey, i am looking for a mouse for my father.

I think a comfortable ergo on the bigger size is want he wants.

Not sure what shape exactly but i ll lend him my IE 3.0 or even WMO and revel (even tho its ambi) to see what shape suits him.

everything else but shape the mouse should have imo:

good clicks should be priority after shape
sensor should be optical, no budget optical like the cheap steelseries uses...
so preferably 3310, am010-ish, /3360/6, even 3090 with no high LoD is okay.
Software to choose DPI (for 3310 atleast) would be great.

I didn't really follow the mionix threads but the castor.
But what about the naos 7000?
Any issues with those? Clicks are good right? Any bugs?

Thanks


----------



## sjzorilla

*What's your grip style?*
Palm/Claw Hybrid (19.5 cm hands)

*What's your sensitivity?*
Medium (1000 dpi, 1 ingame)

*What's your maximum budget?*
Doesn't matter
*
Do you want additional buttons?*
Side Buttons only on the left

*What games do you play?*
counter strike

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Eh dont really notice it

*Other relevant information*
Mice I've tried:
Razer Deathadder- Hump in the middle of the body is way too prominent and has ****ty clicks, also feels a bit fat. Regardless, I aim the best with this mouse
Logitech G402- Right side of the mouse messes with my grip and forces me to claw
Logitech G302- *** is this shape...
Logitech G502- Way too heavy and not enough room for my thumb
Logitech G500- Not for gaming imo
Cooler Master Xornet- Shape doesn't suit me, completely crap sensor
Steelseries Ikari- Awkward shape, bad buttons
Mionix Naos 7000- Love the shape, feels so good, just cant aim that well with it probably due to right side grooves
Steelseries Rival 100- Body was too low profile, bit small
A4tech bloody V7- dunno why i bought this ...
Logitech G9X- Never liked short but fat mice, never fit my grip
Zowie EC2 Evo CL- Hate Stiff buttons, sensor lens messed up the tracking on my taito, small, bad side buttons
Qpad 8K Optical- Front of the mouse is too high, not as comfortable as naos, weird right side grooves, hair trigger buttons
Roccat Kone Pure White- Tad small, otherwise great shape and the laser sensor is not bad

*Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
- I can usually fix high LOD problems with the tape fix, but hate the low LOD on zowie mice because of tracking problems
- Haven't reeally had a go with ambi mice ...
- I like the weight below 105g, heavy mice are too fatiguing
- Wireless is something i wouldnt mind
- Glossy finishes are a no no
- I hate stiff buttons
- Ive never had a problem with razer synapse, sooo....
- on board memory is a welcome bonus
- My only needs for the sensor is high pcs so i dont really mind laser sensors


----------



## Trysaeder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm/Claw Hybrid (19.5 cm hands)
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> Medium (1000 dpi, 1 ingame)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> Doesn't matter
> *
> Do you want additional buttons?*
> Side Buttons only on the left
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> counter strike
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Eh dont really notice it
> 
> *Other relevant information*
> Mice I've tried:
> Razer Deathadder- Hump in the middle of the body is way too prominent and has ****ty clicks, also feels a bit fat. Regardless, I aim the best with this mouse
> Logitech G402- Right side of the mouse messes with my grip and forces me to claw
> Logitech G302- *** is this shape...
> Logitech G502- Way too heavy and not enough room for my thumb
> Logitech G500- Not for gaming imo
> Cooler Master Xornet- Shape doesn't suit me, completely crap sensor
> Steelseries Ikari- Awkward shape, bad buttons
> Mionix Naos 7000- Love the shape, feels so good, just cant aim that well with it probably due to right side grooves
> Steelseries Rival 100- Body was too low profile, bit small
> A4tech bloody V7- dunno why i bought this ...
> Logitech G9X- Never liked short but fat mice, never fit my grip
> Zowie EC2 Evo CL- Hate Stiff buttons, sensor lens messed up the tracking on my taito, small, bad side buttons
> Qpad 8K Optical- Front of the mouse is too high, not as comfortable as naos, weird right side grooves, hair trigger buttons
> Roccat Kone Pure White- Tad small, otherwise great shape and the laser sensor is not bad
> 
> *Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc*
> - I can usually fix high LOD problems with the tape fix, but hate the low LOD on zowie mice because of tracking problems
> - Haven't reeally had a go with ambi mice ...
> - I like the weight below 105g, heavy mice are too fatiguing
> - Wireless is something i wouldnt mind
> - Glossy finishes are a no no
> - I hate stiff buttons
> - Ive never had a problem with razer synapse, sooo....
> - on board memory is a welcome bonus
> - My only needs for the sensor is high pcs so i dont really mind laser sensors


G403 is a bit smaller than the DA and larger than the EC2-a. 107g wireless or 90g wired.


----------



## spaghettiman

Anyone know of a mouse with a smaller grip width, but similar height, to a g302?

I have fairly long hands (19 cm or so) but my palm is suupper tiny.

The rapoo v300 looked good but they've been out of stock and don't seem to be getting restocked ever.

thanks


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spaghettiman*
> 
> Anyone know of a mouse with a smaller grip width, but similar height, to a g302?
> 
> I have fairly long hands (19 cm or so) but my palm is suupper tiny.
> 
> The rapoo v300 looked good but they've been out of stock and don't seem to be getting restocked ever.
> 
> thanks


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rapoo-RAPOO-V300-professional-gaming-mouse-CF-LOL-built-in-breathing-light-athletic-necessary/32611384688.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.Rzveg5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10069_10084_10083_10086_10017_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10052_422_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_7&btsid=0f25449b-4b03-4590-898e-660787d2581f


----------



## asp93

asus rog sica vs evga torq x5 optical, wich performs better? i don't care about side buttons


----------



## ramenchef

What's your grip style?
I use a palm grip where my fingers, between the first and third knuckle, are slightly raised off of the mouse between 3 and 9mm depending on the mouse shape.
My hand is roughly 18cm long, so small hands.
What's your sensitivity?
I currently play on 800dpi
What's your maximum budget?
no real limit at the moment
Do you want additional buttons?
At minimum, I need the 2 thumb buttons on the left side. I am not a fan of MMO-style mice with 9+ keys for the thumb, though.
What games do you play?
I play mostly league and a little csgo. The rest of the games are where mouse accuracy isn't paramount.
Do you mind about prediction?
As long as I can toggle it on and off, it should be fine, otherwise no prediction.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Low LOD, low weight, clicky buttons (i tried out the razer chroma at the store and the buttons felt really mushy), on board memory would be great. Previous mice I have used are the mx518, g400, and deathadder 2013. Since my DA2013 broke, I have been using my old G400, but I noticed that my ring finger doesn't have a really comfortable place to sit due to the lip on the right side of the mouse. I don't think I would mind ambidextrous mice, but I never really tried them out. My biggest issue is that I have noticed that I hold the mouse kind of low and wide. This causes the tip of my pinky and sometimes my ring finger to touch the mousepad, causing unnecessary drag. I have been looking at the g403, G Pro mouse, and Deathadder Elite. I'm not sure if the elite has buttons more clicky like the DA2013 or mushy like the DA Chroma since they didn't have the elite on display. The g403 wasn't as ergonomically shaped as I thought it would be, but it wasn't bad. They didn't have a G Pro mouse for me to hold at the store, either.


----------



## 86MhzPentium

What's your grip style?
I think it's palm

What's your sensitivity?
I usually use 400dpi, or 800.

What's your maximum budget?
50€

Do you want additional buttons?
Only side buttons

What games do you play?
League of Legends and some CSGO

Do you mind about prediction?
I want a perfect sensor per say, no acell, no prediction, nothing.

Other relevant information:
I've used a DA 3.5G for 3-4 years and a Alcor for 1 year, im now stuck between a Rival 300, a G302 or a G402, which one of these would fit me better? Also, i really value build quality and i rate Logitech a lot unlike Razer or Steelseries, also heard great things about the G302 buttons in general, and i hate the extra buttons in the g402.

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Nothing to add, just that i hate extra buttons, only enjoy mice that 5-6 buttons (not counting dpi buttons)


----------



## munchzilla

G302 isn't very good for palm. G402 is a good mouse though. only downside is a quite stiff cable, but I personally don't find it to be a huge dealbreaker.


----------



## 86MhzPentium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> G302 isn't very good for palm. G402 is a good mouse though. only downside is a quite stiff cable, but I personally don't find it to be a huge dealbreaker.


The extra buttons on the left button put me off tho


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *86MhzPentium*
> 
> The extra buttons on the left button put me off tho


any chance you could save up a little more for a G403?








it's really really nice, much better than G402 IMO. great for palm if your hands aren't Hugh Mungus


----------



## D4rknVidia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramenchef*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I use a palm grip where my fingers, between the first and third knuckle, are slightly raised off of the mouse between 3 and 9mm depending on the mouse shape.
> My hand is roughly 18cm long, so small hands.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I currently play on 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> no real limit at the moment
> Do you want additional buttons?
> At minimum, I need the 2 thumb buttons on the left side. I am not a fan of MMO-style mice with 9+ keys for the thumb, though.
> What games do you play?
> I play mostly league and a little csgo. The rest of the games are where mouse accuracy isn't paramount.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> As long as I can toggle it on and off, it should be fine, otherwise no prediction.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> Low LOD, low weight, clicky buttons (i tried out the razer chroma at the store and the buttons felt really mushy), on board memory would be great. Previous mice I have used are the mx518, g400, and deathadder 2013. Since my DA2013 broke, I have been using my old G400, but I noticed that my ring finger doesn't have a really comfortable place to sit due to the lip on the right side of the mouse. I don't think I would mind ambidextrous mice, but I never really tried them out. My biggest issue is that I have noticed that I hold the mouse kind of low and wide. This causes the tip of my pinky and sometimes my ring finger to touch the mousepad, causing unnecessary drag. I have been looking at the g403, G Pro mouse, and Deathadder Elite. I'm not sure if the elite has buttons more clicky like the DA2013 or mushy like the DA Chroma since they didn't have the elite on display. The g403 wasn't as ergonomically shaped as I thought it would be, but it wasn't bad. They didn't have a G Pro mouse for me to hold at the store, either.


Logitech G900?
Very clicky and crispy buttons!


----------



## 86MhzPentium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> any chance you could save up a little more for a G403?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's really really nice, much better than G402 IMO. great for palm if your hands aren't Hugh Mungus


Not even selling on my country :\


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *86MhzPentium*
> 
> Not even selling on my country :\


can you buy from outside of your country? I think eBay and such work well usually.


----------



## DaFirnz

What's your grip style?
Mostly palm with a bit of fingertip. Index finger is lifted, but everything else touches.
What's your sensitivity?
No clue, probably medium.
What's your maximum budget?
~$100 Canadian which is roughly $70-80 US
Do you want additional buttons?
One or 2 would be nice, but not necessary.
What games do you play?
Mostly stuff live Civilzation, a little bit of GTA5. Nothing intense where a mouse would be the difference between life or death.
Do you mind about prediction?
I'm indifferent.
Other relevant information:
Doesn't have to be anything special, just has to work well and last more than 6 months. I'm currently using a Logitech M500, I like the shape but everything else about it is garbage.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaFirnz*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Mostly palm with a bit of fingertip. Index finger is lifted, but everything else touches.
> What's your sensitivity?
> No clue, probably medium.
> What's your maximum budget?
> ~$100 Canadian which is roughly $70-80 US
> Do you want additional buttons?
> One or 2 would be nice, but not necessary.
> What games do you play?
> Mostly stuff live Civilzation, a little bit of GTA5. Nothing intense where a mouse would be the difference between life or death.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I'm indifferent.
> Other relevant information:
> Doesn't have to be anything special, just has to work well and last more than 6 months. I'm currently using a Logitech M500, I like the shape but everything else about it is garbage.


sounds like a G403 recommendation is in order here too.


----------



## 86MhzPentium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> can you buy from outside of your country? I think eBay and such work well usually.


Already bought a g302, great mouse, only the shape is not that good, trying to get used to it.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *86MhzPentium*
> 
> Already bought a g302, great mouse, only the shape is not that good, trying to get used to it.


shape is the most important though


----------



## 86MhzPentium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> shape is the most important though


I usually value sensor and build quality over shape, but im adapting to it, great mouse apart from the really not common shape.


----------



## LastRages

*What's your grip style?*
Palm / Fingterip

*What's your sensitivity?*
20.5"/360 (800 DPI / 1 ingame)

*What's your maximum budget?*
< $100 CAD

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Doesn't matter; Not a deal breaker.

*What games do you play?*
Mainly FPS games (CS:GO, Quake, etc.)

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Perfer none.

*Other relevant information*

I want something that is going to last a while. I've been using a Deathadder 3.5G since 2010 and its just now starting to give me issues with tracking and what not.
I absolutely HATE Razer Synapse so I'd prefer to not get another Razer Mouse. I do however really like the shape of my current mouse because it fits my hand well.


----------



## domon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LastRages*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Palm / Fingterip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 20.5"/360 (800 DPI / 1 ingame)
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> < $100 CAD
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> Doesn't matter; Not a deal breaker.
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Mainly FPS games (CS:GO, Quake, etc.)
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Perfer none.
> 
> *Other relevant information*
> 
> I want something that is going to last a while. I've been using a Deathadder 3.5G since 2010 and its just now starting to give me issues with tracking and what not.
> I absolutely HATE Razer Synapse so I'd prefer to not get another Razer Mouse. I do however really like the shape of my current mouse because it fits my hand well.


Since you play on 800 I believe you can set that as your one dpi step and uninstall synapse completely and just get another deathadder. That's what I did with my 2013. Otherwise, Zowie EC1/2, Logitech G403, Gigabyte XM300, Cougar 300m are all shapes similar(ish) to the DA.

I would like some additional input on a mouse for a friend:

What's your grip style?
-He can adjust, nothing too big

What's your sensitivity?
-~1000 dpi, medium in game sens

What's your maximum budget?
-$50, 30 ideally

Do you want additional buttons?
-Thumb buttons preferably

What games do you play?
-Rainbow 6 Siege mainly

Do you mind about prediction?
-I'm looking to get him a mouse with a decent sensor

Other relevant information
-He's coming from a Xornet 2 (broken scroll wheel) and a rebranded Sensei Raw before that

I was looking at the G303, Revel, Zalman m600r and the torq x5 but I wanted some other opinions on what else is out there.


----------



## fuzun

#Reflected from G Pro topic. http://www.overclock.net/t/1608862/sponsored-logitech-g-pro-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino/2790#post_25656298


What's your grip style?
Palm and fingertip. Differs most of time. Which is more healthier, I will get used to that grip style.
What's your sensitivity?
Low.
What's your maximum budget?
$80
Do you want additional buttons?
2 should be enough.
What games do you play?
%95 FPS, But gaming generally took %50~ of my usage. Generally coding and browsing around files ...
Do you mind about prediction?
I do not want any kind of prediction or interpretation.
Other relevant information:
Unfortunately I do not have a decent mouse that I can say I like or dislike that shape. ( I have Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 2.0 aka The way to Carpal Tunnel. It is odd shaped mouse and it needs >5 fingers arched for click but I can not say that I don't like it because of its shape)

I never used symmetrical shaped mouse before :/

I just want a good mouse with a perfect sensor and very good shape because I don't want to watch my hand getting screwed up with BOM 2.0. I want ergonomic mouse which has good feedback.

I use computer 8 hours each day, and I do different things not just fps gaming. It should be comfortable mouse which is perfectly suitable for gaming.

I have to buy *Logitech* because of warranty, and I want a mouse with a *very good sensor*, I wanted to buy *g pro* at first but it is more likely a gaming mouse, some reported that you can not even arch your fingers because it gets clicked. Also it does not have rubber sides.

What should I buy?

G Pro
G502 - Is this a healthy choice as it is very heavy?
G403
G303 - A lot of rattle issues.

I want all-round mouse. I have *18.5 cm hands.*

Thank you.


----------



## Genos

Looking for a replacement for my logitech G9X: http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/g9x-laser-mouse#warranty

Tried looking at all the logitech mice, but it's hard for me to tell them apart. I'm willing to try a different brand too.

What's your grip style?
fingertip

What's your sensitivity?
24.7cm/360, but I'm thinking of going down to 34.6cm/360

What's your maximum budget?
No budget, I'll pay for a quality mouse

Do you want additional buttons?
Maybe? I only have 2 side buttons on my current mouse, but it might be nice to have more. Then again, I''m not sure if I'd think they could get in the way though - I've never tried a mouse with several buttons before.

What games do you play?
Overwatch

Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction please!

Other relevant information:
Current mouse specs

Height:38.9 mm or 1.53 inches
Width:80.2 mm or 3.12 inches
Depth:109.8 mm or 4.32 inches
Weight:156.0 g or 5.5 ounce

Something like that would be nice. I could go for a mouse with different dimensions too so long as it's comfortable.


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genos*
> 
> Looking for a replacement for my logitech G9X: http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/g9x-laser-mouse#warranty
> 
> Tried looking at all the logitech mice, but it's hard for me to tell them apart. I'm willing to try a different brand too.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 24.7cm/360, but I'm thinking of going down to 34.6cm/360
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> No budget, I'll pay for a quality mouse
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Maybe? I only have 2 side buttons on my current mouse, but it might be nice to have more. Then again, I''m not sure if I'd think they could get in the way though - I've never tried a mouse with several buttons before.
> 
> What games do you play?
> Overwatch
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction please!
> 
> Other relevant information:
> Current mouse specs
> 
> Height:38.9 mm or 1.53 inches
> Width:80.2 mm or 3.12 inches
> Depth:109.8 mm or 4.32 inches
> Weight:156.0 g or 5.5 ounce
> 
> Something like that would be nice. I could go for a mouse with different dimensions too so long as it's comfortable.


iirc, some g9x users really liked the corsair m65, but it is larger than the g9x and also heavier.

You mentioned that you fingertip, so you might want to try a g pro or g303


----------



## eugene2n

Other relevant information:
*I am left handed so only ambidextrous mice please I'm putting this in first because it's by far the most important piece of info*

What's your grip style
I am currently using a CM devastator in claw grip and I find it quite comfortable, definitely think I will keep using claw over palm or fingertip. My hand size is 18cm long and 8.5cm wide.

What's your sensitivity?
very low sens about 1000dpi and 0.8 sens in-game(csgo) slightly higher for overwatch

What's your maximum budget?
About 50gbp on amazon UK

Do you want additional buttons?
Additional buttons would be nice on either side but not more then 2 on each side

What games do you play?
csgo, overwatch

Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction or accel or anything of the likes please

_I am currently using a cm devastator gen1 which has an unbelievably horrible sensor with some crazy spin out issues so obviously I would like a mouse that can't be spun out. low lod.
_

Currently looking at zowie fk2,mionix avior,g303,g pro(although way above budget)


----------



## rezot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eugene2n*
> 
> 
> Other relevant information:
> *I am left handed so only ambidextrous mice please I'm putting this in first because it's by far the most important piece of info*
> 
> What's your grip style
> I am currently using a CM devastator in claw grip and I find it quite comfortable, definitely think I will keep using claw over palm or fingertip. My hand size is 18cm long and 8.5cm wide.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> very low sens about 1000dpi and 0.8 sens in-game(csgo) slightly higher for overwatch
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> About 50gbp on amazon UK
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Additional buttons would be nice on either side but not more then 2 on each side
> 
> What games do you play?
> csgo, overwatch
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> No prediction or accel or anything of the likes please
> 
> _I am currently using a cm devastator gen1 which has an unbelievably horrible sensor with some crazy spin out issues so obviously I would like a mouse that can't be spun out. low lod.
> _
> 
> Currently looking at zowie fk2,mionix avior,g303,g pro(although way above budget)


Definitely try out the FK2, Great quality mouse with a perfect sensor. My hands are nearly indentical(19x9) and I use a claw/slight fingertip grip and it just sits right for me.
GPro is honestly pretty bad in my personal opinion from what I tested of it.
AVior 8200 was way too flat for me personally, ended up with an aching hand after about an hour of playing. If you don't palm it it's going to hurt. They do undoubtedly have the best cables I have ever come across though.
Im in the same situation and i used to swap between my modded fk2 and a razer krait. Eventually I just melded them together and its working great.


http://imgur.com/2YwH5


Only downside I would say is the material on the top shell of the FK2 isn't as nice as other mice(ZA13, a few razer mice etc.) it's a bit too slippy/smooth for my liking.
If you're into mech keyboards it's like the different between PBT and ABS keycaps.


----------



## eugene2n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rezot*
> 
> Definitely try out the FK2, Great quality mouse with a perfect sensor. My hands are nearly indentical(19x9) and I use a claw/slight fingertip grip and it just sits right for me.
> GPro is honestly pretty bad in my personal opinion from what I tested of it.
> AVior 8200 was way too flat for me personally, ended up with an aching hand after about an hour of playing. If you don't palm it it's going to hurt. They do undoubtedly have the best cables I have ever come across though.
> Im in the same situation and i used to swap between my modded fk2 and a razer krait. Eventually I just melded them together and its working great.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/2YwH5
> 
> 
> Only downside I would say is the material on the top shell of the FK2 isn't as nice as other mice(ZA13, a few razer mice etc.) it's a bit too slippy/smooth for my liking.
> If you're into mech keyboards it's like the different between PBT and ABS keycaps.


Yeap looks like I'm definitely going to try the fk2, thanks


----------



## DarkSable

Hey guys!

I need some advice - I'm hunting for a new mouse, as my old deathadder black has finally given up the ghost, and I don't feel like taking it apart and fixing the scroll wheel yet again. I would just buy a 2016 deathadder, but... I figured before I do that, I should research what my other options are.

Just to provide a bit of context, my old (As in, original run, long before the 'new' black ones.) Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 that I had when growing up as a kid was... pretty much the perfect fit to my hand. I've tried a _lot_ of different mice during my time, including five or six Logitechs. The majority of them are awful feeling, to me.

Here's a lit of what I like most about the two:

+ I love the side button size and placement on the Deathadder. Its scroll wheel also feels amazing... when it works.
+ The tactile clicks of the Deathadder feel much nicer than the loose buttons on Microsoft's venerable ancient.
+ The longer build of the Intellimouse Explorer is much more comfortable to me, and prevents the heel of my palm from sliding along the mousepad the way it does with the Deathadder.

= The weight of both is perfectly comfortable to me, though the Deathadder is probably as heavy as I'd like.

- The aforementioned short rear end of the Deathadder drives me crazy. Not only do I have calluses on the bottom of my mousing hand, but it also tends to make my wrist sore after extended gaming sessions. (*Though by extended, I basically mean overnight, so I'm not terribly worried about actual damage occurring to my wrist.)
- They both have fairly stiff cables, and I would love to see something more flexible.\

So, on to the suggestion thread questions.

1) I believe that my grip style is palm; at least, that's what I default to. However, I just tried raising my chair up slightly, and naturally fell into a claw grip. It was also much more comfortable on my wrist... but made typing less comfortable. Am I perhaps messing something up ergonomically that I could fix these issues with? (It wouldn't surprise me. I've had to change the way that I sit because I've given myself upper cross syndrome.)

EDIT: After watching a few videos on mouse grip, it seems like I might have a fingertip grip, but a lowish sensitivity for that style of grip? At least, with the Deathadder. I'm definitely more comfortable with the palm grip on the Intellimouse, even after years of not using it.

2) I'm a mid-high sensitivity gamer; a 360 degree turn normally takes me... about sixteen inches? I do a 180 in about eight, from the center of my mousepad to the very edge (with half the mouse hanging off), so...

3) Budget isn't much of an issue. I mean, I'd rather not pay $150 for a mouse, but I'd rather that than be slowly screwing up my wrist.

4) I want at least two thumb buttons - see the notes above for the style I like. Large is good. I feel like I would love a layout like the Naga Hex, but my friend has a regular Naga and I can't stand it; I mis-click constantly.

5) I play a wide range of games, from MMOs to FPSs to Turn-Based Strategies. I am particularly worried about performance in FPS games and comfort for MMOs.

6) Prediction... I'm not certain. I can't say that I have enough experience (nor have done enough research) to know... but I do know that mouse acceleration drives me up the wall.

7) See above. I prefer a matte finish, I'd rather not have RGB (or any) lighting, but can live with it... the only other thing I'd say is that durability is a huge plus, because this mouse will be packed up and taken to a friends' for gaming nights twice a week.

Thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## KJZ87

What's your grip style?

Currently fingertip but I am not sure if that is my ideal grip. I am thinking maybe palm would feel more comfortable.

What's your sensitivity?

I use the default settings for my current mouse, which is set at 1600 DPI. Pointer speed at 6 out of 10.

What's your maximum budget?

Preferably under $50 but maximum of $100.

Do you want additional buttons?

No.

What games do you play?

RPG, non PVP FPS and Action.

Do you mind about prediction?

Never heard it until now. No idea to be honest.

Other relevant information:

*Left-handed

Ambidextrous mice only*

Currently using Mionix Avior 7000. Solid mouse and good software but I do not feel very comfortable using it for the past few years. My hands are not that big but the mouse seems too low to the surface. My fingers get a bit crowded on the left side of the mouse, and the mouse seems a bit too narrow width wise. The weight of the mouse is fine for me. I do not want a heavy mouse.

Prefer black coated mice. RGB LEDs not necessary but welcomed.


----------



## Cyber_Bruno

What's your grip style?
Fingertip while gaming. When not gaming I'm still used to letting part of my palm rest against the mouse (specifically the front of the palm, just behind the fingers proper). My previous mice were a G500s and G500. Old habits that perhaps should be broken?
What's your sensitivity?
Roughly middle, sometimes lower but generally nothing crazy.
What's your maximum budget?
$100.
Do you want additional buttons?
Standard two on the side would be nice. None extra needed.
What games do you play?
Generally FPS with Overwatch as the hot title of late, but my roots are in Quake/UT. Occasional RTS or Diablo.
Do you mind about prediction?
Absolutely unwanted.
Other relevant information:
Hand is 19cm x 10cm (more accurately 19.05 x 10.16). So a couple of days back I got a Zowie FK2 online. Great mouse, and it has helped my aim some. It's been about 4 days with roughly 3 hours of use per day and I'm definitely feeling wrist and shoulder pain. I can tell it's at least partly due to needing to maintain too narrow a grip for the mouse. Currently, I'm not too sure about holding onto the FK2 (pun intended). I'm partly convinced that pain this quickly and textbook Flexor Carpi Radialis and Pectoralis Minimus should be sign enough it's not going to work out. (http://www.triggerpoints.net/symptom/volar-wrist-palmar-pain) Another part of me wonders if I'm just not consciously adjusting enough and need to unlearn some bad habits.

As a replacement, I'm curious if getting the slightly larger FK1 may be enough of an increase to save the day, or if I should just dive into the Logitech G403. The G403 is certainly a more familiar shape and dimensions, but the hump being further back than my old Logis and the non-centered sensor have me a little apprehensive.

Anyone with similar dimensions/grip use an FK1, or perhaps other info that can help inform the decision? Perhaps somebody with non-small hands and an FK1 rests their palm on it when not gaming without issue (as compared to a 24/7 fingertip commitment)? I'm not a fan of the "try it, return it" mantra. Also open to other options, of course, but these seemed like sound choices on paper.
Thanks!


----------



## Floxelelele

What's your grip style? Palm/claw mix

What's your sensitivity? Low sens

What's your maximum budget? 90€

Do you want additional buttons? 2 buttons on the side.

What games do you play? FPS games and Witcher 3

Do you mind about prediction?
Absolutely unwanted.

Other relevant information:
no rubber on the sides, something like the zowie ec2-a , software for 450 DPI but its not important.

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## xxsashixx

What's your grip style? Palm, Claw
What's your sensitivity? Mid-High
What's your maximum budget? $100 CAD
Do you want additional buttons? Yes - would like 4 more buttons.. (Back, Forward, Volume Up + Down)
What games do you play? Variety, MMOs, MOBAs, RTS, FPS
Do you mind about prediction? N/A
Other relevant information: N/A


----------



## Jonele

*i need ergonomic mouse for lefthanded.*
What's your grip style? something between palm and claw
What's your sensitivity? 70cm/360, low sens
What's your maximum budget? no budget
What games do you play? csgo, overwatch and lol
Do you mind about prediction? no
Other relevant information: ergonomic
currently looking at: razer deathadder lefthanded edition and other options with better sensor or different shape. can be ambi mouse with no side buttons on left.
im currently using fk1+ and previous mouses are fk1, fk2, avior 7000, sensei and za12

Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonele*
> 
> *i need ergonomic mouse for lefthanded.*
> What's your grip style? something between palm and claw
> What's your sensitivity? 70cm/360, low sens
> What's your maximum budget? no budget
> What games do you play? csgo, overwatch and lol
> Do you mind about prediction? no
> Other relevant information: ergonomic
> currently looking at: razer deathadder lefthanded edition and other options with better sensor or different shape. can be ambi mouse with no side buttons on left.
> im currently using fk1+ and previous mouses are fk1, fk2, avior 7000, sensei and za12
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.


Ergo + Left Handed = good luck with that. Your best bet is left handed DA.
Logitech G900 is another option, not ergo, but it is possible to plug the left side buttons.


----------



## Zanna

What's your grip style? I think it's a hybrid between palm and fingertip. (This is an image of how I tend to hold it http://i.imgur.com/BhTkgdF.png)
What's your maximum budget? £50-£60
What's your sensitivity? Depends on the game but I tend to stick around 1600dpi
Do you want additional buttons? I'm happy with just 2 extra side buttons
What games do you play? Mixture of FPS. RPG and strategy
Other relevant information:

I've just come from my old Xornet, which while I loved the shape and the clicks on it, the sensor wasn't the best. I've gone to my old backup KPM now and it's hurting my hand using it. I think it's where the little hump on it is, it's right under my knuckles. I've been tempted by the Revel or some of the Zowies but I'm completely stumped with all the mouse choices out there right now. Hand size is 19.5x10cm if that helps. Thanks in advance


----------



## t0xx1k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkSable*
> 
> deathadder
> 
> Just to provide a bit of context, my old (As in, original run, long before the 'new' black ones.) Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
> 
> 4) I want at least two thumb buttons - see the notes above for the style I like. Large is good.
> 
> 7) See above. I prefer a matte finish, I'd rather not have RGB (or any) lighting, but can live with it... !


Rival or EC are close

DA IME and Rival:


EC1 vs IME


(imgs stolen from other threads)

Pushing your wrist down hard enough for pain/calluses definitely sounds like a posture issue... I wonder if you could actually benefit from using a much SMALLER/lower mouse so your wrist is relaxed on the pad instead of sliding off between the butt/pad.

That's what worked for me. I have long skinny hands. If I try to get palm/wrist support from the mouse it just slides on and off of the back and i feel like i have carpal tunnel after an hour. Using smaller mice and wresting the proximal area of my palm on the mouse instead of themiddlepalm is much better,


----------



## wes1099

I have used an IME 3.0 legends edition for the past year and I am looking to get a new mouse. I am looking at either the zowie ec1-a or the Logitech g403. Which one do you guys think I should go for? By the way I palm grip.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I have used an IME 3.0 legends edition for the past year and I am looking to get a new mouse. I am looking at either the zowie ec1-a or the Logitech g403. Which one do you guys think I should go for? By the way I palm grip.


Could also do Death Adder Chroma or EC2A, which is smaller than EC1, or new old stock MX518s still available on eBay for cheap. I got a new old stock Monoprice branded Zowie EC1 eVo for $18 on eBay new, pretty good deal if you don't mind the older 3090 sensor.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> Could also do Death Adder Chroma or EC2A, which is smaller than EC1, or new old stock MX518s still available on eBay for cheap. I got a new old stock Monoprice branded Zowie EC1 eVo for $18 on eBay new, pretty good deal if you don't mind the older 3090 sensor.


I considered the deathadder but for some reason I just donnt like it. I had an older deathadder and I liked it but I like the intellimouse shape a little better. My brother has an ec2 evo and I found it a little too small. I'm not really a fan of the mx518.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I considered the deathadder but for some reason I just donnt like it. I had an older deathadder and I liked it but I like the intellimouse shape a little better. My brother has an ec2 evo and I found it a little too small. I'm not really a fan of the mx518.


You may still like the G403 shape but to me it feels nothing like the IME 3.0. I don't have an EC1 here to compare though.


----------



## michaeldrk

nvm


----------



## theroarer

*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip/clawgrip

*What's your sensitivity?*

1800 dpi/ higher sensitivity, but I'm willing to adjust.

*What's your maximum budget?*

$100 usd

*Do you want additional buttons?*

no

*What games do you play?*

Mix of fps, rpgs, and rts/mobas.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

I would prefer not to have it.

*Other relevant information:*

Low LOD is my only concern, but I don't mind using the tape mod to make it acceptable.

I'm coming from a CM storm spawn, which I absolutely LOVE. Unfortunately it is death rattling. The middle mouse button is broken. Scroll wheel is wonky. And finally the right mouse button today has started to stick.

I'm ready for a new mouse, but I have small hands with very longer fingers. I don't rest my palm on my mouse at all, and I curl my fingers like a crawl grip. So I would prefer a very small mouse

I was looking at the Logitech g pro and the g203/g102, because I had good luck with them in the past.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theroarer*
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> 
> Fingertip/clawgrip
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 
> 1800 dpi/ higher sensitivity, but I'm willing to adjust.
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> 
> $100 usd
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> 
> no
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> 
> Mix of fps, rpgs, and rts/mobas.
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> 
> I would prefer not to have it.
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> 
> Low LOD is my only concern, but I don't mind using the tape mod to make it acceptable.
> 
> I'm coming from a CM storm spawn, which I absolutely LOVE. Unfortunately it is death rattling. The middle mouse button is broken. Scroll wheel is wonky. And finally the right mouse button today has started to stick.
> 
> I'm ready for a new mouse, but I have small hands with very longer fingers. I don't rest my palm on my mouse at all, and I curl my fingers like a crawl grip. So I would prefer a very small mouse
> 
> I was looking at the Logitech g pro and the g203/g102, because I had good luck with them in the past.


I'm thinking G403 or the new Roccat Kone Pure Military 2017 (? is that what it's called?) might fit the bill better. G403 is a tad larger but a bit claw friendly.
Roccat KPM 2017 is quite a bit smaller and pretty much made for claw grip.


----------



## Klopfer

why not the Xornet II ( stay below / max 1000CPI ) ?


----------



## imdavidboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I'm thinking G403 or the new Roccat Kone Pure Military 2017 (? is that what it's called?) might fit the bill better. G403 is a tad larger but a bit claw friendly.
> Roccat KPM 2017 is quite a bit smaller and pretty much made for claw grip.


Definitely don't think the G403 would be good. It's super palm oriented from my experience. I hate the hump on the back and the way it touches my palm. The G Pro on the other hand sounds more in order like how he said. It's small and really easy to claw, although I use a hybrid grip where I claw mouse 1 and mouse 2 and palm it in the area right below my knuckles basically. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## theroarer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> why not the Xornet II ( stay below / max 1000CPI ) ?


That's a good question. I was thinking for the nearly the same price that there would be better offerings than the Xornet II. Plus I'm also interested in trying something else.

If it comes down to it, I wouldn't mind getting a Xornet II as a backup, just because I know it'll fit my hand well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imdavidboss*
> 
> Definitely don't think the G403 would be good. It's super palm oriented from my experience. I hate the hump on the back and the way it touches my palm. The G Pro on the other hand sounds more in order like how he said. It's small and really easy to claw, although I use a hybrid grip where I claw mouse 1 and mouse 2 and palm it in the area right below my knuckles basically. Just my 2 cents.


I was thinking the same thing about the g403. It looks great, but the comparison picks make it look like I would have to lay my hand flatter than I would like.

Any other suggestions on small mice?


----------



## Klopfer

EVGA X5 Optical
like it for Claw and Fingertip very much


----------



## theroarer

Ohhh the Torq! I read a little blip about it, and people were saying the same thing. It looks very sexy, and it's in budget too. Does the asymmetrical cable placement make a difference at all in your experience Klopfer?


----------



## Klopfer

no, I was thinking about that too , but ingame I didnt realize it that it isnt in the middle ... so No ...
Edit: btw Im using a Mousebungee


----------



## Chirsu

0. Sorry if my English is poor

1. What's your grip style?
Palm grip. My hand is rougly 18.6x9.3cm

2. What's your sensitivity?
1260 eDPI, roughly 34cm/360

3. What's your maximum budget?
100$

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Side buttons are nice to have, but not required

5. What games do you play?
FPS, mainly cs go. I'm GE, so quite competetive.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
No-no-no, I'd like to have a nice sensor.

7. Other relevant information:
Mice I've used: steelseries sensei > razer abyssus 2014 > logitech g pro
So I currently have abyssus 2014 and g pro. My main problem with these mice is that they are too small. I prefer palm grip, however because these mice are so small - I sort of fingertip them, so the back of my hand rests on the pad. It wasn't a problem until I noticed that when I my hand gets sweaty - it's hard to move, because it feels glued to the pad. It interrupts my aim pretty badly.
Also I've tried my friend's razer deathadder, it feels nice for the back of the hand, but it's very wide, so it feels really bulky, which I don't like. Also it's super-wide at the front, so it hurts my ring finger even after 1 minute of holding it.
So I'm thinking about g403, because it has all the nice features, same as g pro. But it's almost as wide as deathadder, so I'm afraid that it will feel bulky too. Also these braided cables are terrible.
Other candidates are zowie EC2-A, EC1-A, ZA11 and ZA12. But I have no idea which one to chose and I've got no chance to try them out without buying them.
I'm also glad to hear any other suggestions


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> 0. Sorry if my English is poor
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm grip. My hand is rougly 18.6x9.3cm
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 1260 eDPI, roughly 34cm/360
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 100$
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Side buttons are nice to have, but not required
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> FPS, mainly cs go. I'm GE, so quite competetive.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> No-no-no, I'd like to have a nice sensor.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Mice I've used: steelseries sensei > razer abyssus 2014 > logitech g pro
> So I currently have abyssus 2014 and g pro. My main problem with these mice is that they are too small. I prefer palm grip, however because these mice are so small - I sort of fingertip them, so the back of my hand rests on the pad. It wasn't a problem until I noticed that when I my hand gets sweaty - it's hard to move, because it feels glued to the pad. It interrupts my aim pretty badly.
> Also I've tried my friend's razer deathadder, it feels nice for the back of the hand, but it's very wide, so it feels really bulky, which I don't like. Also it's super-wide at the front, so it hurts my ring finger even after 1 minute of holding it.
> So I'm thinking about g403, because it has all the nice features, same as g pro. But it's almost as wide as deathadder, so I'm afraid that it will feel bulky too. Also these braided cables are terrible.
> Other candidates are zowie EC2-A, EC1-A, ZA11 and ZA12. But I have no idea which one to chose and I've got no chance to try them out without buying them.
> I'm also glad to hear any other suggestions


ec2-a is kinda like a smaller deathadder with a less prominent hump, but i think the za12 may keep your palm off the pad


----------



## Chirsu

Yes, I've heard that comparison quite often. Also I've ordered EC2-A today. It'll come in a month. So if it won't fit me - I'll try ZA11 or ZA12.
Is there any specific reason why you suggest ZA12, not ZA11? Is ZA11 too big for my hand size?


----------



## Loosenut

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
currently set at 2800dpi 1000Hz polling

What's your maximum budget?
~$100
Do you want additional buttons?
Two thumbs buttons are a must + scroll wheel
What games do you play?
MMOS, RTS, used for work
Do you mind about prediction?
yes
Other relevant information:
love having adjustable dpi, this helps is some games. no wireless. breathability on my palm
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
coming from my TT Theron with full weights, would love to go back to my aluminum Roccat pad - Theron sensors causes jumping on the very minor design, had to move to Steel Series cloth pad - sensor picks up minute(not visible) amounts of dust when getting close to edge using jumping - never had this issue with my original DA(not of fan of their drivers, tried the 2013 model and returned it)


----------



## spectral312

What's your grip style? : *Claw / Fingertip but mostly claw*

What's your sensitivity? *CS:GO 0.56 @ 1600DPI (2.25 @ 400DPI) But i can easily adjust.*

What's your maximum budget? *50-60$*

Do you want additional buttons? *I dont mind dpi switch but i want to have mouse4 and mouse5 on the side.*

What games do you play? *FPS (Mainly CS:GO but i play other FPS games too)*

Do you mind about prediction? *i would prefer not to have it*

Other relevant information: *My handsize is 19cm/10cm. My previous mouse was Zowie FK1 and it was great but i wasn't sure about my grip so i switched to DA Chroma and after some time i regret because i cant aim and hold DA like i did with FK. I dont mind buying FK1 again but i would like to try something different but similar to FK*

Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc : *I want mouse to be lightweight and for sure have a good sensor.*


----------



## michaeldrk

*What's your grip style?*
Palm, but I can palm any size/weight
*What's your sensitivity?*
Anywhere between 400-800 dpi
*What's your maximum budget?*
Anything below $100
*Do you want additional buttons?*
I need 2 side buttons on the left. I'm fine with or without a dpi button up top
*What games do you play?*
FPS. The main game I play only supports 125hz, so I wouldn't be able to use a mouse such as the finalmouse
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No
*Other relevant information:*
Low LOD, Ergonomic, Any size/weight, Preferably non-braided and matte (but fine with braided and glossy), Wired or Wireless, Onboard memory, and the 3360 is nice but I'm fine with the 3310 as well (and any successors)
*Main thing I want*: Side buttons without pretravel, and extremely firm main clicks. G403 clicks for example were way too light, EC2A clicks were good but the side buttons sucked


----------



## vikiryu1

Hi guys, sorry for my bad English. English is my third language.

1.What's your grip style?
85% Claw grip,15% finger tip grip (uses if my right hand feels tired). *I use MIddle mouse camera grip* so i would like to have soft, small middle mouse button.

2.What's your sensitivity?
1000-1200 dpi

3.What's your maximum budget?
under 150$

4.Do you want additional buttons?
No. One or two side buttons but rarely uses. Don't care that much.

5.What games do you play?
Mainly Dota 2, Fps.

6.Do you mind about prediction?
No

7.Other relevant information:
I have pretty small hands and I'm looking for less than 105 mm in length (maximum <110mm length), <36 mm in height and Light or medium weight. I'm currently using Cm storm xornet 1 and it is the best mouse that i ever used however it is not available anymore. I bought the Xornet 2 last three weeks ago and i don't really like that much because of the hard,large middle mouse button and middle mouse button stopped working so i have to refund.
I have tried and really love those mouses:
1. Zowie Mico (I really like the *size* and shape of that mouse)
2. CM Storm Xornet 1
3. Cooler master Spawn
4. Razer salmosa
I've tried almost every razer, steel series and zowie mouses but those are too big for me expect those mouses that i mentioned above. Is there any mouses that you guys recommend to me? Thanks!


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikiryu1*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys, sorry for my bad English. English is my third language.
> 
> 1.What's your grip style?
> 85% Claw grip,15% finger tip grip (uses if my right hand feels tired). *I use MIddle mouse camera grip* so i would like to have soft, small middle mouse button.
> 
> 2.What's your sensitivity?
> 1000-1200 dpi
> 
> 3.What's your maximum budget?
> under 150$
> 
> 4.Do you want additional buttons?
> No. One or two side buttons but rarely uses. Don't care that much.
> 
> 5.What games do you play?
> Mainly Dota 2, Fps.
> 
> 6.Do you mind about prediction?
> No
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I have pretty small hands and I'm looking for less than 105 mm in length (maximum <110mm length), <36 mm in height and Light or medium weight. I'm currently using Cm storm xornet 1 and it is the best mouse that i ever used however it is not available anymore. I bought the Xornet 2 last three weeks ago and i don't really like that much because of the hard,large middle mouse button and middle mouse button stopped working so i have to refund.
> I have tried and really love those mouses:
> 1. Zowie Mico (I really like the *size* and shape of that mouse)
> 2. CM Storm Xornet 1
> 3. Cooler master Spawn
> 4. Razer salmosa
> I've tried almost every razer, steel series and zowie mouses but those are too big for me expect those mouses that i mentioned above. Is there any mouses that you guys recommend to me? Thanks!


Zealot Jr.

There's really not much in the sub-110mm realm worth nothing.


----------



## Snaky115

A simple question:

How many decent gaming mice are there with a tilting scroll wheel, like the Roccat Kone XTD, but noticeably cheaper than it? Other than the Gigabyte ones, just for variety.


----------



## Hackshot

The G403, ZA11/12, Nixeus Revel and DM1 Pro S seem like they have what I look for in a mouse, sadly I'd have to import them and I'm a little concerned about quality issues since I won't be able to get replacements easily. How widespread are lens, feet or mwheel problems with each of those mice?

The DM1 Pro S was looking like a perfect bet for me till I read Ino's review and he spoke of some pretty serious lens rattle; the Revel seems to suffer from bad feet and also turning off/feeling unresponsive in some circumstances(?); the g403 apparently got it all, possible button, wheel and feet problems...

Zowies apparently track differently in the x and y axis? 




Besides that, my hands can get pretty sweaty in the summer; which of these mice would offer a better grip in this condition?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Zeix

Dropped my kinzu v3 accidentally and m1 died and started to not respond. Currently choosing between the g100s and g102 and i would have to import the g102 if i want it. Pretty afraid of the QC issues with the g100s but im not sure if the g102 has the same issue. Any opinions on which one i should pick? Thanks in advance!


----------



## madmeatballs

*What's your grip style?*
- Palm Grip / PalmClaw hybrid

*What's your sensitivity?*
- 1500-2800 DPI

*What's your maximum budget?*
- 100$

*Do you want additional buttons?*
- Yes, I usually use a thumb button for Push to Talk, additional buttons could be very useful for some games I play like Arma 3

*What games do you play?*
- Arma 3(~DayZ), DA:I, The Witcher 3, Squad, Fallout 4,

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Not really, but would like something without it. Don't really know what that is.

*Other relevant information:*
- I prefer a heavy mice
- Wired (a wireless function would a plus)
- durable middle and side buttons, I had an MMO7 and a RAT5 since it had the buttons I needed but I am really getting annoyed that the buttons snap off from use and is really hard to fix, I think the only remedy is to 3d print a new button. I dont want to waste anymore money for mad catz until they fix their build quality. This was specifically the back button which I use for PTT. My latest mouse a Mionix Naos 7000, it was really good until the middle button decided to stop functioning.
- On board memory would be a plus
- Pinky rest or ring finger rest would be veryyyy nice

*Past Mice:*

CM Storm Inferno
Mad Catz RAT 5
Mad Catz MMO7
G.Skill MX780
*
Current Mice:*
Mionix Naos 7000

*Hand Measurement:*195mm L x 95mm W (19.5cm x 9.5cm)


----------



## Derpduck

1. What's your grip style?
Claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI, low in games
3. What's your maximum budget?
~$50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
No, but 1 on the right side would be a bonus
5. What games do you play?
FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't want prediction
7. Other relevant information:
Needs to be ambidextrous, light/medium weight, good software would be a bonus.
Good mousewheel is a must.

Previous mice:
Nixeus Revel (Current, broken)
Logitech G100s

Looking for something similar to those, maybe something with a sensei-style shell like the Nixeus.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derpduck*


ZM-M600R
G102/203
Zowie ZA[xx]
ROG Sica
Cougar 400/450M
Tesoro Sharur (think there's one with a 3090)
Kova 2016
Qpad DX-20
Mastermouse Pro L/S (both have issues)
Rival 100
Ventus R (slightly ergo)


----------



## REX026888

1. What's your grip style?
fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI, 50 in game (LOL)
3. What's your maximum budget?
$150usd
4. Do you want additional buttons?
not a must but prefer 2 button on the left side
5. What games do you play?
MOBA>FPS
6. Do you mind about prediction?
Don't want prediction
7. Other relevant information:
Ambidextrous and <100g weight will be best but not a must, prefer smaller mice.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *REX026888*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> fingertip
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 800 DPI, 50 in game (LOL)
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150usd
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> not a must but prefer 2 button on the left side
> 5. What games do you play?
> MOBA>FPS
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Don't want prediction
> 7. Other relevant information:
> Ambidextrous and <100g weight will be best but not a must, prefer smaller mice.


Logitech G102/203, G302, G303
SS Rival 100 (can't do 800 DPI though, DPI is in 250 steps IIRC)
Asus Sica
Roccat Lua (last 2 have no side buttons)


----------



## caenlen

Is there anyway to turn my matte mouse into a little glossy? Not fully glossy just a few sections maybe? Any 3m sticky stuff I can buy?


----------



## Stakxyn

1 What's your grip style?
Fingertip

2 What's your sensitivity?
400-700 DPI, lower in FPS games, higher when doing work

3 What's your maximum budget?
I just want the best features for the price.

4 Do you want additional buttons?
Back, forward, DPI switcher

5 What games do you play?
Mainly, Overwatch, CS:GO, Diablo 3

6 Do you mind about prediction?
I do mind. I would like the option to turn it off or not have it at all

7 Other relevant information:
Prior mouse: G502 (dead)

I don't want the mouse cord to be too stiff (if it's not wireless), and I'm really spoiled by Logitech's Hyperscrolling feature, but I know there isn't another mouse that has a similar feature. I'm hesitant on getting another G502 since it has died (hasn't even been two years yet, already contacted Logitech Support and waiting on a response). I basically want a mouse that is appropriate for work and play. Any suggestions would be helpful!


----------



## MaTpr0F

Hi Everyone!

1. What's your grip style?
Palm/Claw, depending on the shape

2. What's your sensitivity?
Low sens

3. What's your maximum budget?
Price is not relevant in this case

4. Do you want additional buttons?
If the side buttons and dpi button considered additional, then yes.

5. What games do you play?
Mixed, but mainly FPS like CS and BF.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I don't want.

7.Other relevant information:
What I'm looking for is a "heavy" mouse with a top optical sensor (or A9500 or 9800 but the prior is optical). Something around 120-150g or close to this. It can be lighter if it has a weight system.
Yes, I know, heavy mice are not that good but recently I had a chance to play with a heavier mice for a longer period. What realized, that for me the weight helps me ancor the mouse and make more precise moves with it.

Many thanks for the help.


----------



## spaghettiman

Do they make any mice that accommodate a big thumb but normal sized hand?

I'm currently using a rival, but it still feels too small with the way I have to grip it.



Is there a higher profile deathadder anywhere or am I gonna have to make modifications to one.


----------



## Japi95

What's your grip style?
Palm/Claw
What's your sensitivity?
400 Dpi Overwatch sens 7.53/Csgo sens 3
What's your maximum budget?
100€ or what is worth
Do you want additional buttons?
Just on the left side like on g403
What games do you play?
Overwatch/Csgo
Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want any prediction or angle snapping etc
Other relevant information:
Low lod, idk of the shape i like g403 shape but i hate rattling scroll wheel,weight max 100gram+/- i like g403 weight,idk of the wired or wireless,braided cord/non-braided,when i use g403 i get sweaty hand idk of the finish of the mouse.

I have used, i tried my friend razer deathadder chroma it felt strange
Zowie ec1-a/benq
Mionix naos 7000
Steelseries rival 300
Logitech g403
Logitech g400


----------



## lukas001

Claw grip for short periods, palm grip most of the time - high hump towards the back of the mouse will help
1000-1300 DPI
no prediction
any budget
right-handed ergonomic shape
two side buttons on the left
rubber grips on the side
no sweat marks visible on the mouse
wired mouse

MOST IMPORTANT FEATURES:

stiff left and right buttons to avoid accidental clicks
left and right main buttons separated from the mouse body
mouse weight focused in the central part, around the sensor

I will use it on my workstation, not for gaming. So far I've tried:
Zowie EC-1A
Mionix Castor
Asus Gladius
Ducky Secret M
Ducky Secret - current preferred mouse (main drawback: heavy, weight not balanced well, gravitating towards the back of the mouse)


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukas001*
> 
> Claw grip for short periods, palm grip most of the time - high hump towards the back of the mouse will help
> 1000-1300 DPI
> no prediction
> any budget
> right-handed ergonomic shape
> two side buttons on the left
> rubber grips on the side
> no sweat marks visible on the mouse
> wired mouse
> 
> MOST IMPORTANT FEATURES:
> 
> stiff left and right buttons to avoid accidental clicks
> left and right main buttons separated from the mouse body
> mouse weight focused in the central part, around the sensor
> 
> I will use it on my workstation, not for gaming. So far I've tried:
> Zowie EC-1A
> Mionix Castor
> Asus Gladius
> Ducky Secret M
> Ducky Secret - current preferred mouse (main drawback: heavy, weight not balanced well, gravitating towards the back of the mouse)


Well, deathadder and g403? But those buttons are not stiff at all. Unlike Zowie - both of those are pretty ok with sweat. Both have rubber grips, ergo shape. G403 has separated buttons.
But why would you want stiff and separated buttons? Separated buttons usually mean that they are easy to click


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaTpr0F*
> 
> Hi Everyone!
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm/Claw, depending on the shape
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Low sens
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Price is not relevant in this case
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> If the side buttons and dpi button considered additional, then yes.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Mixed, but mainly FPS like CS and BF.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes, I don't want.
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> What I'm looking for is a "heavy" mouse with a top optical sensor (or A9500 or 9800 but the prior is optical). Something around 120-150g or close to this. It can be lighter if it has a weight system.
> Yes, I know, heavy mice are not that good but recently I had a chance to play with a heavier mice for a longer period. What realized, that for me the weight helps me ancor the mouse and make more precise moves with it.
> 
> Many thanks for the help.


Roccat Kone EMP
Logitech G502
You could even look for a Mad Catz Rat Pro X but that one has quite an extreme design and a hefty price tag.
Asus Gladius 2.


----------



## lukas001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Well, deathadder and g403? But those buttons are not stiff at all. Unlike Zowie - both of those are pretty ok with sweat. Both have rubber grips, ergo shape. G403 has separated buttons.
> But why would you want stiff and separated buttons? Separated buttons usually mean that they are easy to click


Stiff buttons mean I am able to rest my fingers on them without stressing out I might accidentally click them. Separate buttons help ensure that because the fingers can rest mostly on the mouse shell without the risk of pressing the buttons.


----------



## Susiria

What's your grip style?
Fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
Low-med sens
What's your maximum budget?
max 80 usd
Do you want additional buttons?
side buttons for browsing
What games do you play?
light FPS gaming, heavy MOBA gaming (Dota)
Do you mind about prediction?
I would prefer no prediction
Other relevant information:
Rubber thumb grips on the side so the surface on the sides don't deteriorate. This is a problem for every mouse I have used in the past.
Lightweight preferred
Flawless sensor

Have tried:
Sensei [RAW]
Avior 7000
Logitech G9X, MX518


----------



## AdamKelly

I'm looking for mice that have at least 3 buttons on the side and no more then 5.
I've been using the g500s for years, before that g500 and before that the g5.
I'd like to get something lighter but there seems to be so few mice with three side buttons.
I've tried the naga hex v2 and the thumb rest just felt awkward. I've tried the steelseries rival 500 and it was too heavy and the buttons far too spread out.


----------



## Klopfer

maybe an Asus ROG Gladius II ( but I think the 3rd Button is just a sniper button, dunno if u can program it )
or maybe an Asus Strix Claw ...
SS Rival 700
...


----------



## AdamKelly

The ss 700 is heavier then the 500 so I don't think thatd be a good fit. I also tried the g502 but its sniper mode is not what I'm looking for so probably works the same for the gladius II . Asus Strix Claw looks interesting, but I thought the PMW3310DH-AWQT was looked down at?


----------



## killeraxemannic

Just got the Kone EMP yesterday.... Really liking it so far. Wanted to put some things I have thought about it out there.... First off I would say my hands are the absolute smallest that are acceptable for it at 18CM. Any shorter and you wouldn't be hitting the groves and buttons in the right places. The weight seems good but it definitely feels heavier to move around than my G403 or DA Elite. I haven't really seen any improvement or decline in aiming from the G403 so I would say it is pretty close in that regard. Interesting thing is my aim didn't seem to change where as with a lot of other mice it took some getting used to.... So this tells me it might improve over the 403 after a few weeks of use. Overall I got it for the comfort and premium feel and it definitely has both of those. It's definitely a palm grip mouse and seems to be best suited for arm aiming where the weight doesn't really make any difference..... So here is the

TLDR:

Roccat Kone EMP - Best mouse on the market for palm grippers with 18+CM hands... Everyone else should probably look elsewhere.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Roccat Kone EMP - Everyone else should probably look elsewhere.


Don't worry we are. Although it's got nothing to do with hand size here........


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Don't worry we are. Although it's got nothing to do with hand size here........


Why? Seems like everyone here is anti Roccat and I don't really understand it. Even when their rep posted about their new mice he got flamed.


----------



## Klopfer

I think a lot people here really likes the Kone Pure ( Military ) shape ...


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> . Even when their rep posted about their new mice he got flamed.


You do know this is OCN ? Coming here and expecting all out Fanboy adoration shall never occur.

Everyone has certain expectations here so when they aren't being met, then the negativity will come rolling in like a tsunami







.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> You do know this is OCN ? Coming here and expecting all out Fanboy adoration shall never occur.
> 
> Everyone has certain expectations here so when they aren't being met, then the negativity will come rolling in like a tsunami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Not expecting that at all.... Just wondering why you are immediately discrediting the Kone EMP and not saying why.... Just seems like brand hate to me and there is nothing wrong with the mouse, in fact it is quite good.... I could be wrong about the brand hate so I want to know why you are saying yourself and others are avoiding the EMP.... You can't just say you are avoiding it with no explanation.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I could be wrong about the brand hate so I want to know why you are saying yourself and others are avoiding the EMP.... You can't just say you are avoiding it with no explanation.


Not telling anyone to avoid it here so get that right at least.

Just never liked any Mouse that doesn't have an ALPs encoder which for YEARS Roccat had supplied to everyone here on OCN but suddenly on this model it Vanishes......

The ONLY thing that placed Roccat above most other manufacturers was their use of ALPs scrollers and if they have now decided to drop it, then this places them into the same bin as most other Yum-Cha organisations trying to cut costs and quality.

You have to ask them why they did that instead of thinking that ignoring that question gets you instant fan adoration







.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Not telling anyone to avoid it here so get that right at least.
> 
> Just never liked any Mouse that doesn't have an ALPs encoder which for YEARS Roccat had supplied to everyone here on OCN but suddenly on this model it Vanishes......
> 
> The ONLY thing that placed Roccat above most other manufacturers was their use of ALPs scrollers and if they have now decided to drop it, then this places them into the same bin as most other Yum-Cha organisations trying to cut costs and quality.
> 
> You have to ask them why they did that instead of thinking that ignoring that question gets you instant fan adoration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ah ok. TRoccat stated in the EMP thread that the reason the EMP doesn't have an alps decoder is because it's not compatible with tilt scrolling and that's a new feature they introduced on the EMP. They did say the Kone Pure 2017 will have an alps decoder. I can also say that the scroll wheel on the EMP feels just as good as the scroll wheel on my KPM so I wouldn't worry about it because it seems like they went with something just as high of quality as the alps.


----------



## AdamKelly

Does anyone have any other suggestions for mice with three side buttons? Ideally it'd have a tilt scrollwheel as well.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Just got the Kone EMP yesterday.... Really liking it so far. Wanted to put some things I have thought about it out there.... First off I would say my hands are the absolute smallest that are acceptable for it at 18CM. Any shorter and you wouldn't be hitting the groves and buttons in the right places. The weight seems good but it definitely feels heavier to move around than my G403 or DA Elite. I haven't really seen any improvement or decline in aiming from the G403 so I would say it is pretty close in that regard. Interesting thing is my aim didn't seem to change where as with a lot of other mice it took some getting used to.... So this tells me it might improve over the 403 after a few weeks of use. Overall I got it for the comfort and premium feel and it definitely has both of those. It's definitely a palm grip mouse and seems to be best suited for arm aiming where the weight doesn't really make any difference..... So here is the
> 
> TLDR:
> 
> Roccat Kone EMP - Best mouse on the market for palm grippers with 18+CM hands... Everyone else should probably look elsewhere.


Coming from a G403 (which I love except for the slightly too hard to press M1+2 and mushy sidebuttons), I was looking at it but I'm so very afraid the extra weight will be a huge issue (due to that I was leaning more towards Zowie like the ZA or EC). How did that compare to you, judging from your post it is really noticable? Wondering if I should wait till april and order the new model but an extra 35g is ALOT.

Btw: I don't give a rats ass about ALPS or w/e I only use the scrollwheel for scrolling during browsing and have other mice for that, prefer a good shape + button feel even if it had no scrollwheel at all


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Coming from a G403 (which I love except for the slightly too hard to press M1+2 and mushy sidebuttons), I was looking at it but I'm so very afraid the extra weight will be a huge issue (due to that I was leaning more towards Zowie like the ZA or EC). How did that compare to you, judging from your post it is really noticable? Wondering if I should wait till april and order the new model but an extra 35g is ALOT.
> 
> Btw: I don't give a rats ass about ALPS or w/e I only use the scrollwheel for scrolling during browsing and have other mice for that, prefer a good shape + button feel even if it had no scrollwheel at all


The EMP and the G403 feel very similar weight wise if you put the included 10G weight in the G403.... The EMP is a tad heavier but they are close. Only difference is with the weight in the 403 seems back heavy where as the EMP is perfectly balanced over the sensor. I was really afraid of the heavier weight too but then I realized that sometimes things like that are just personal and you read so much around here and online that will tell you lighter is always better, etc until you actually try it for yourself. I stand behind the statement that coming from a weightless G403 to the EMP has not had any negative impact on my aiming. Looking at my profile on master Overwatch my accuracy percentages haven't changed over the time I have switched. The M1 and M2 buttons on the EMP are definitely lighter. I actually noticed myself clicking them down too hard for the first day I had the mouse... Enough so that if you bottom them out and keep pushing they will flex a bit which I never would have noticed if I hadn't come from the 403. The buttons on the EMP sort of feel like they float. You can push it down enough to get a click but it goes down further after that if you press hard enough. I like the way they feel and it is absolutely great for rapid double clicking. You can double click it faster than any other mouse I have tried. The side buttons are decent. The actual click of them feels very similar to the 403. I would even guess they might use the same switch. They have less of a mushy feeling than the 403 because they are smaller and have a distinct stop point where as the 403 ones don't and will flex the case which is probably the mushy feeling you are experiencing. As far as the scroll wheel goes I think it's great and just as good as the ALPS one on my Roccat KPM mouse. They wanted to add side scroll on the wheel and that wasn't supported by alps so they changed.... They actually had a mouse called the Tyon that had an alps encoder and a dorsal fin on top for side scrolling but most didn't like the design. I think that's what made them ditch it in favor of something that could do side scroll.


----------



## kennyj

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/fingertip hybrid, closer to fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-high; I'm usually set to around 3000DPI on my G500s

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I like a forward/back and middle side button. The easier to find with my thumb, the better.

5. What games do you play?
When I do, it's usually either a FPS or RPG. TF2 probably more than anything.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
As long as I can turn it off.

7.Other relevant information:
I use a G500s at work and a G502 at home. I've always found the G500s to be much more comfortable and have just been putting up with the G502. In both cases I use an XTracpads Ripper. I frequently work from home so this will be a dual-use mouse.
I never saw the point of those weight modules, and I always leave them out. I like a lighter-weight mouse.
I've consistently gone wired for years, but I'm willing to entertain wireless if it has zero lag and recharges easily. Last I looked, that was wishful thinking.

8. Anything else you want.
I really like the Logitech infinite scroll, but I have no loyalty to the brand and I'm willing to consider alternatives. I use the wheel a lot for work, so I like it to glide very easily.
Programmability is a plus. I usually set the middle side button to Win+Down because I constantly have too many windows open. Naturally, I can do this in software if needed.
I prefer right-handed mice. Braided cords are cool but as long as it glides easily on a Ripper, I don't care.
If there are lights, I prefer red. If I can control the color, that's good. If I can turn them off, that's fine.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> The EMP and the G403 feel very similar weight wise if you put the included 10G weight in the G403.... The EMP is a tad heavier but they are close. Only difference is with the weight in the 403 seems back heavy where as the EMP is perfectly balanced over the sensor. I was really afraid of the heavier weight too but then I realized that sometimes things like that are just personal and you read so much around here and online that will tell you lighter is always better, etc until you actually try it for yourself. I stand behind the statement that coming from a weightless G403 to the EMP has not had any negative impact on my aiming. Looking at my profile on master Overwatch my accuracy percentages haven't changed over the time I have switched. The M1 and M2 buttons on the EMP are definitely lighter. I actually noticed myself clicking them down too hard for the first day I had the mouse... Enough so that if you bottom them out and keep pushing they will flex a bit which I never would have noticed if I hadn't come from the 403. The buttons on the EMP sort of feel like they float. You can push it down enough to get a click but it goes down further after that if you press hard enough. I like the way they feel and it is absolutely great for rapid double clicking. You can double click it faster than any other mouse I have tried. The side buttons are decent. The actual click of them feels very similar to the 403. I would even guess they might use the same switch. They have less of a mushy feeling than the 403 because they are smaller and have a distinct stop point where as the 403 ones don't and will flex the case which is probably the mushy feeling you are experiencing. As far as the scroll wheel goes I think it's great and just as good as the ALPS one on my Roccat KPM mouse. They wanted to add side scroll on the wheel and that wasn't supported by alps so they changed.... They actually had a mouse called the Tyon that had an alps encoder and a dorsal fin on top for side scrolling but most didn't like the design. I think that's what made them ditch it in favor of something that could do side scroll.


Well I'm comparing without, so that would be 87g vs 116g, that's still almost 30g more! On the other hand my Rival was also 105g and didn't really feel like that much guess I'll just have to try. Good what you mention about the M1+2, sounds like what I'm looking for. Shame about the side buttons though, they kinda suck on the G403 as compared to my DA (on the Rival they are better but not great either, quite mushy, but less travel distance as compared to G403). Ah well M1+2 are more important









One more question: I noticed the mouse is 13,5cm, close to my Rival. The reason I'm not using that for FPS anymore is shown here (don't mind the text, it's just about the photo, post isn't mine). The Rival gets a little wider to the farthest bottom of it, as indicated with red in that image. The same problem is visible on the other side. Due to me palming the mouse, regularly I would get my skin of my palm "stuck" a little between the mouse, lifting it a little, messing with my motion and aim ofcourse. The G403 is perfect in this respect cause its butt slants inwards a little towards the bottom of the mouse, making it perfect for palm grip. Do you feel the EMP has a similar "big butt footprint" like the Rival?


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Well I'm comparing without, so that would be 87g vs 116g, that's still almost 30g more! On the other hand my Rival was also 105g and didn't really feel like that much guess I'll just have to try. Good what you mention about the M1+2, sounds like what I'm looking for. Shame about the side buttons though, they kinda suck on the G403 as compared to my DA (on the Rival they are better but not great either, quite mushy, but less travel distance as compared to G403). Ah well M1+2 are more important
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more question: I noticed the mouse is 13,5cm, close to my Rival. The reason I'm not using that for FPS anymore is shown here (don't mind the text, it's just about the photo, post isn't mine). The Rival gets a little wider to the farthest bottom of it, as indicated with red in that image. The same problem is visible on the other side. Due to me palming the mouse, regularly I would get my skin of my palm "stuck" a little between the mouse, lifting it a little, messing with my motion and aim ofcourse. The G403 is perfect in this respect cause its butt slants inwards a little towards the bottom of the mouse, making it perfect for palm grip. Do you feel the EMP has a similar "big butt footprint" like the Rival?


The back of the mouse fills my palm but doesn't feel too big. I full on palm grip and I feel like that's what the EMP is intended for. The way the thumb and pinky&ring finger groves are designed you don't have to grip it very hard to pick it up if you are palm gripping it. That pic you linked seems like the back is too wide on that mouse. The EMP seems like the back is just wide enough to fill your palm. Similar to the Death Adder in that respect. I felt like the 403 was narrow at the back. The 403 is sort of a jack of all trades when it comes to grip... Its made to be gripped in all ways where as the EMP seems like its more intended for palm grip or claw. I would say fingertip grip is nearly impossible. It sort of forces you to claw grip even if you try fingertip. I do like the side buttons on the EMP. Maybe I mislead you. They are easy to click and light.... They have a fairly long travel distance but they click early on and have a distinct stop point at the end. The only part that is the same as the 403 is the click actuation itself.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> The back of the mouse fills my palm but doesn't feel too big. I full on palm grip and I feel like that's what the EMP is intended for. The way the thumb and pinky&ring finger groves are designed you don't have to grip it very hard to pick it up if you are palm gripping it. That pic you linked seems like the back is too wide on that mouse. The EMP seems like the back is just wide enough to fill your palm. Similar to the Death Adder in that respect. I felt like the 403 was narrow at the back. The 403 is sort of a jack of all trades when it comes to grip... Its made to be gripped in all ways where as the EMP seems like its more intended for palm grip or claw. I would say fingertip grip is nearly impossible. It sort of forces you to claw grip even if you try fingertip. I do like the side buttons on the EMP. Maybe I mislead you. They are easy to click and light.... They have a fairly long travel distance but they click early on and have a distinct stop point at the end. The only part that is the same as the 403 is the click actuation itself.


Good to hear, also about the sidebuttons! I agree the G403 could use a bit more body in the back, but that would probably make it unusable for smaller hands. On the other hand I currently grip it fine, wonder if I could grip it better with some more width to it.
Do you also have or used the XTD/Pure? How do they relate to the EMP? I'm guessing the Pure is prob too small to palm right but I liked the dimensions listed for the XTD.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Good to hear, also about the sidebuttons! I agree the G403 could use a bit more body in the back, but that would probably make it unusable for smaller hands. On the other hand I currently grip it fine, wonder if I could grip it better with some more width to it.
> Do you also have or used the XTD/Pure? How do they relate to the EMP? I'm guessing the Pure is prob too small to palm right but I liked the dimensions listed for the XTD.


XTD is exactly the same size and shape as the EMP. I have the KPM and it is also the same shape except 9% smaller than the XTD and EMP. It is too small for my 18/11 CM hands although it is very light and easy to manipulate. My fingers hang an good 1/4 inch off of the end of the buttons when I palm grip it.


----------



## killeraxemannic




----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> XTD is exactly the same size and shape as the EMP. I have the KPM and it is also the same shape except 9% smaller than the XTD and EMP. It is too small for my 18/11 CM hands although it is very light and easy to manipulate. My fingers hang an good 1/4 inch off of the end of the buttons when I palm grip it.


Thanks for the pics bro +repped!!! Looks good for palming indeed, my hands are slightly bigger but looks like it should easily work.

Are you sure about the sizes though? From Roccat's site:
EMP:
Width 7.5 cm , Height 4.2 cm , Length 13.5 cm , Weight 116 g

XTD:
Width 7.5 cm , Height 4.0 cm , Length 13.0 cm , Weight 120 g

0.5cm length and 2mm height difference is pretty significant!


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Thanks for the pics bro +repped!!! Looks good for palming indeed, my hands are slightly bigger but looks like it should easily work.
> 
> Are you sure about the sizes though? From Roccat's site:
> EMP:
> Width 7.5 cm , Height 4.2 cm , Length 13.5 cm , Weight 116 g
> 
> XTD:
> Width 7.5 cm , Height 4.0 cm , Length 13.0 cm , Weight 120 g
> 
> 0.5cm length and 2mm height difference is pretty significant!


I have always read the EMP was the same size and shape as the XTD but it looks like they might have tweaked it a bit. I have no experience with the XTD.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Pindle you are definitely right about shape. I found a side by side picture of the 2. Not very good quality though


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Pindle you are definitely right about shape. I found a side by side picture of the 2. Not very good quality though


Lol is it just me or does the XTD look bigger than the EMP? Despite the site saying the EMP is 0,5cm longer? It looks exactly the other way around but could be an optical illusion.



@ROCCATstudios could you enlighten us?


----------



## ROCCATstudios

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Lol is it just me or does the XTD look bigger than the EMP? Despite the site saying the EMP is 0,5cm longer? It looks exactly the other way around but could be an optical illusion.
> 
> 
> 
> @ROCCATstudios could you enlighten us?


It's the same size. Maybe the changed button layout on top is creating the illusion.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ROCCATstudios*
> 
> It's the same size. Maybe the changed button layout on top is creating the illusion.


Thanks alot - may be whise to update the site then









So which is it: 13cm or 13,5?


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ROCCATstudios*
> 
> It's the same size. Maybe the changed button layout on top is creating the illusion.


Are the EMP and the XTD the exact same dimensions in every way?


----------



## killeraxemannic

Based on this as I don't think I got the ruler quite far forward enough I would say 13.5CM


----------



## pindle

Depends on how you measure it I guess but seems indeed more like 13 to me, thanks!


----------



## MADworld

What's your grip style?
Palm

What's your sensitivity?
800 DPI

What's your maximum budget?
150€

Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons, back/forwards

What games do you play?
All

Do you mind about prediction?
I want to be able to turn it off

Other relevant information:
I got long hands, about 19,5 cm (7.67 in), so I've been using the original SS Rival with the 3310 sensor.

I'm aware of the Roccat Kone EMP but it seems to weigh more than the Rival, however it's difficult to find out for sure because you don't know if the cord is included in the weight or not.

Should I go for the EMP or are there better suggestions for people with big hands?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800 DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 150€
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> Two side buttons, back/forwards
> 
> What games do you play?
> All
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I want to be able to turn it off
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I got long hands, about 19,5 cm (7.67 in), so I've been using the original SS Rival with the 3310 sensor.
> 
> I'm aware of the Roccat Kone EMP but it seems to weigh more than the Rival, however it's difficult to find out for sure because you don't know if the cord is included in the weight or not.
> 
> Should I go for the EMP or are there better suggestions for people with big hands?


If you like the Rival just go with the Rival 300.


----------



## MADworld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> If you like the Rival just go with the Rival 300.


I looked at it and it seems to be a renamed Rival, true?

I've had my original Rival for about ~2 years. The rubber on the side has worn quite badly and now the scroll wheel randomly scrolls the cursor in the opposite direction.
The build quality just seems bad overall.

So I'm hoping there are some alternatives out there.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MADworld*
> 
> I looked at it and it seems to be a renamed Rival, true?
> 
> I've had my original Rival for about ~2 years. The rubber on the side has worn quite badly and now the scroll wheel randomly scrolls the cursor in the opposite direction.
> The build quality just seems bad overall.
> 
> So I'm hoping there are some alternatives out there.


They fixed the rubber, idk about the scrollwheel. No proper durable mice out there in 2017 to tell ya frankly.


----------



## gene-z

Anyone have any ideas for a replacement for my FK1? I kind of got tired of the largeish shape, but all the smaller mice I've tried just don't feel right. I've tried the FK2, but it's just too thin in width. The G102/PRO have terrible sides, IMO. Any similar shapes to the FK1 that are shorter and wider than the FK1? I really like the G100s shape, but not a fan of the LOD and sensor performance.


----------



## Japi95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for a replacement for my FK1? I kind of got tired of the largeish shape, but all the smaller mice I've tried just don't feel right. I've tried the FK2, but it's just too thin in width. The G102/PRO have terrible sides, IMO. Any similar shapes to the FK1 that are shorter and wider than the FK1? I really like the G100s shape, but not a fan of the LOD and sensor performance.


Maybe Dm1 Pro or Dm1 pro s

https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-gaming-mouse

https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-s-optical-gaming-mouse-3360-sensor

There is video what shows difference those two mice


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Japi95*
> 
> Maybe Dm1 Pro or Dm1 pro s
> 
> https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-gaming-mouse
> 
> https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-s-optical-gaming-mouse-3360-sensor
> 
> There is video what shows difference those two mice


Thanks, but it looks like the DM1 pro is about the same length as the FK1. Looking for something shorter. Really wish they made an FK2+.


----------



## t3ram

I search a mouse were the sidebuttons have very short, or no travel.
The g403 had very good sidebuttons but i didn't like the shape/balance of it and i don't like the other logitechs.
I don't really care if the sensor is a 3310/ 3360 or something else, unless it has some major flaws.

I am completely open for any suggestions


----------



## pstN

.


----------



## kennyj

I'm looking for something in the neighborhood of a G500s for both work and gaming. I have one at work and I particularly like the ergonomics, the three thumb buttons and infinite scroll, but I'm wondering what else I can find that might suit my needs. I currently have a G502 at home that I just never fell in love with the way I did the G500s.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw/fingertip hybrid, closer to fingertip.

2. What's your sensitivity?
Medium-high; I'm usually set to around 3000DPI on my G500s

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I like a forward/back and middle side button. The easier to find with my thumb, the better.

5. What games do you play?
When I do, it's usually either a FPS or RPG. TF2 probably more than anything.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
As long as I can turn it off.

7.Other relevant information:
I use an XTracpads Ripper.
I never saw the point of those weight modules, and I always leave them out. I like a lighter-weight mouse.
I've consistently gone wired for years, but I'm willing to entertain wireless if it has zero lag and recharges easily. Last I looked, that was wishful thinking. I'm open to giving it another shot.

8. Anything else you want.
I really like the Logitech infinite scroll, but I have no loyalty to the brand and I'm willing to consider alternatives. I use the wheel a lot for work, so I like it to glide very easily.
Programmability is a plus. I usually set the middle side button to Win+Down because I constantly have too many windows open. Naturally, I can do this in software if needed.
I prefer right-handed mice. Braided cords are cool but as long as it glides easily on a Ripper, I don't care.
If there are lights, I prefer red. If I can control the color, that's good. If I can turn them off, that's fine.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyj*
> 
> I'm looking for something in the neighborhood of a G500s for both work and gaming. I have one at work and I particularly like the ergonomics, the three thumb buttons and infinite scroll, but I'm wondering what else I can find that might suit my needs. I currently have a G502 at home that I just never fell in love with the way I did the G500s.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw/fingertip hybrid, closer to fingertip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> Medium-high; I'm usually set to around 3000DPI on my G500s
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I like a forward/back and middle side button. The easier to find with my thumb, the better.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> When I do, it's usually either a FPS or RPG. TF2 probably more than anything.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> As long as I can turn it off.
> 
> 7.Other relevant information:
> I use an XTracpads Ripper.
> I never saw the point of those weight modules, and I always leave them out. I like a lighter-weight mouse.
> I've consistently gone wired for years, but I'm willing to entertain wireless if it has zero lag and recharges easily. Last I looked, that was wishful thinking. I'm open to giving it another shot.
> 
> 8. Anything else you want.
> I really like the Logitech infinite scroll, but I have no loyalty to the brand and I'm willing to consider alternatives. I use the wheel a lot for work, so I like it to glide very easily.
> Programmability is a plus. I usually set the middle side button to Win+Down because I constantly have too many windows open. Naturally, I can do this in software if needed.
> I prefer right-handed mice. Braided cords are cool but as long as it glides easily on a Ripper, I don't care.
> If there are lights, I prefer red. If I can control the color, that's good. If I can turn them off, that's fine.


Check out the ASUS Strix Claw.


----------



## ROCCATstudios

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Thanks alot - may be whise to update the site then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So which is it: 13cm or 13,5?


We updated the page now with the same measurement method as with the XTD.


----------



## F3yer

[*] What's your grip style?

Fingertip/Claw Hybrid
[*] What's your sensitivity?

Low/med. usually around 400-800 DPI and usually have sens in CSGO around 1.8-2.5

[*] What's your maximum budget?

No max

[*] Do you want additional buttons?

Not necessary. Maybe 2 side buttons for Push-To-Talk, but that's it.

[*] What games do you play?

FPS

[*] Do you mind about prediction?

I usually don't enjoy it. But if I can turn it off, that's fine.

[*] Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Wired, matte finish or some material that is more difficult to leave sweat marks or dirt on the mouse, I want extremely sensitive actuation, like the ScreamOne, but I don't want it to actuate when adjusting or lifting the mouse like the ScreamOne xD. Light weight if possible. Low LOD. I would prefer on-bord memory and, if possible, no software but that is not a necessity.

I almost want to find someone to make me a custom mouse at this point but I don't know ANYONE or ANY Company willing to do it lol.


----------



## Avantu

*What's your grip style? :* Claw/Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity? :* ~900eDPI
*What's your maximum budget? :* <50$
*Do you want additional buttons?* : depends
*What games do you play? :* cs go
*Do you mind about prediction? :* not rly
*Other relevant information:*
I'm using Abyssus 2014 right now. Feels good but scroll broke. I'm lefthanded so it is hard for me to find mouse. EVGA Torq X5 seems good but it isn't available here in Poland. I was reading a lot about 3310 and i'm not sure if i want mouse with it. Can anybody name any good ambi shape mouse without buttons or on both sides, and with good implementation of 3090? I was thinking about Kana v2 or Zalman ZM-M600R. I would go with Abyssus v2 if sensor weren't worse than 2014 edition...


----------



## Meowcenaries

MY grip is palm/claw hybrid
My dpi is 800
Budget: Nothing
Additional buttons? only forward and back
I play mainly Battlefield 1, Overwatch, LOL, And a bunch of fantasy/rpg games
I Don't like it
Other info My hand size is 19cm, I don't like overly heavy mice being light is a plus, I am currently looking to replace my G502/303 (yes I use 2). Is zowie still using Huano switches or have they switched ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) to omron?


----------



## YYYellow

*Hand dimensions:
Length = 18.5cm
Width = 8.7cm*

1. What's your grip style?

Palm.

2. What's your sensitivity?

400DPI or bust. Beyond that feels oversensitive to me.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Irrelevant.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

It's optional, although I'd highly prefer a mouse with just two side buttons since that's what I've been accustomed to lately.

5. What games do you play?

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Battlefield 4 *(And lots of it.)*

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I don't want none of that acceleration/prediction life.

*Et-cetera;*

Lift-off distance doesn't matter much to me. Dedicated to right hand users. Lighter mouse or nah, my current mouse (Corsair M65) is too heavy to make fast flicks in games. Braided/Non-braided doesn't matter to me at all, same goes for mouse body. I go *crazy* for *RGB* lighting, thus it does need both on-board memory and drivers.

I am considering between the *Deathadder Elite* or *Rival 300*. I appreciate more choices on mice though, just has to fit the conditions which I've mentioned above.

Thank you very much, been looking forward to find a thread like this in ages.


----------



## spaghettiman

I would recommend the rival if you don't like your ring and pinky fingers touching the mousepad. I used to aim really well with the deathadder until my hands grew and now it feels too low of profile. I'd say go to your local bestbuy and see how it feels in your hands.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YYYellow*
> 
> *Hand dimensions:
> 
> Length = 18.5cm
> 
> Width = 8.7cm*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Palm.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 400DPI or bust. Beyond that feels oversensitive to me.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Irrelevant.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> It's optional, although I'd highly prefer a mouse with just two side buttons since that's what I've been accustomed to lately.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Battlefield 4 *(And lots of it.)*
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> I don't want none of that acceleration/prediction life.
> 
> *Et-cetera;*
> 
> Lift-off distance doesn't matter much to me. Dedicated to right hand users. Lighter mouse or nah, my current mouse (Corsair M65) is too heavy to make fast flicks in games. Braided/Non-braided doesn't matter to me at all, same goes for mouse body. I go *crazy* for *RGB* lighting, thus it does need both on-board memory and drivers.
> 
> I am considering between the *Deathadder Elite* or *Rival 300*. I appreciate more choices on mice though, just has to fit the conditions which I've mentioned above.
> 
> Thank you very much, been looking forward to find a thread like this in ages.


tt eSports Ventus X RGB Optical (not laser) is very popular for that style of mice, and has really good sensor + scroll wheel + buttons. I'd say better scroll wheel and buttons than the DA Elite and the Rival 300, but sensor might be on par with the DA elite... better than Rival though.
lighter than both those too.


----------



## YYYellow

Ah, just what I wanted!!! I would love to see an indepth review regarding that mouse though. Hopefully Rocket Jump Ninja makes one of it. It seems perfect, thank you!


----------



## pindle

If onboard mem is a must like YYYellow says the DA:E may be out of the equasion; it does have it but doesn't save DPI step settings without the software (ffing Synapse crap, only polling and RGB stuff). Imo shape > sensor, 3310 of the Rival is fine. I personally even feel the 3310 from the Rival SEEMS snappier than my 336x mice (or Razer's relabled 3389) but that's probably just some weird quirk I have


----------



## YYYellow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> If onboard mem is a must like YYYellow says the DA:E may be out of the equasion; it does have it but doesn't save DPI step settings without the software (ffing Synapse crap, only polling and RGB stuff). Imo shape > sensor, 3310 of the Rival is fine. I personally even feel the 3310 from the Rival SEEMS snappier than my 336x mice (or Razer's relabled 3389) but that's probably just some weird quirk I have


Doesn't on-board memory let your mouse's settings (Lighting, DPI Values) stick after a reboot? Correct me if I'm wrong because if I am, please forgive me plus then I wouldn't consider "on-board memory" on a mouse as a must.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YYYellow*
> 
> Doesn't on-board memory let your mouse's settings (Lighting, DPI Values) stick after a reboot? Correct me if I'm wrong because if I am, please forgive me plus then I wouldn't consider "on-board memory" on a mouse as a must.


yes, but the DA:E onboard memory doesn't store anything if you don't have Razer Synapse installed. and it's terrible software... really bloaty.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1601975/tt-esports-ventus-x-optical-3360-announced/0_20

check this thread out for the Ventus X Optical BTW, really praised mouse.


----------



## hza

I don't know about remapping mouse buttons and/or macros, however, DA Chroma kept stored dpi and Hz after uninstalling Synapse. I assume DA Elite does the same.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> yes, but the DA:E onboard memory doesn't store anything if you don't have Razer Synapse installed. and it's terrible software... really bloaty.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1601975/tt-esports-ventus-x-optical-3360-announced/0_20
> 
> check this thread out for the Ventus X Optical BTW, really praised mouse.


Can attest to that (Synapse sucks AND Ventus being a nice mouse)!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I don't know about remapping mouse buttons and/or macros, however, DA Chroma kept stored dpi and Hz after uninstalling Synapse. I assume DA Elite does the same.


No the DA:E only saves Hz and RGB stuff, dpi settings are never saved to memory, you need Synapse running (or the tournament driver) for that. And yes, that's ridiculous.


----------



## RAFFY

Ladies and Gentleman I need some help selecting a new mouse. I must admit that I have been a huge Logitech fan boy for 15+ years now. My favorite mouses I have used are the G9x, G500s and G700s. I my favorite grip style is palm and I tend to like large mice as I have big hands. I'm in the market for a new mouse right now and really cant find anything I like. I haven't paid much attention to the computer gaming scene lately so I'm probably out of the loop. What would you guys suggest?

*What's your grip style?*
Palm is preferred
*What's your sensitivity?*
I use anywhere from 1500-Max (depending on mouse and game)
*What's your maximum budget?*
$200
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, I tend to like mouses with 10+ buttons total. However I don't want an MMO style mouse.
*What games do you play?*
Shooters
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Not sure if I've had a mouse that feature prediction.
*Other relevant information:*
I don't care how the mouse looks as long as its a performer. Also, I mentioned I've looked at mouses and I can't find anything I like. I purposely did not list the mouses that I've looked for the simple fact I dont want to deter anyone from posting a suggestion.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Flynes

Hi, everyone. I'm currently looking to buy a new mouse and therefore am hoping to get some suggestions.

What's your grip style?
Palm.
What's your sensitivity?
I use 400 DPI and 8 sensitivity in Overwatch which translates to approximately 43.295cm/360.
What's your maximum budget?
I don't have a budget.
Do you want additional buttons?
No, only two side buttons on the left side.
What games do you play?
Overwatch, occasionally Rainbow Six Siege and H1Z1: King of the Kill.
Do you mind about prediction?
It must be able to be turned off.
Other relevant information:
I have approximately 18x10cm hands (including thumb). I don't mind if the mouse if ergonomic or ambidextrous as long as it would suit my mouse grip and hand size.
I'm pretty sure that's everything that I have to say, thanks for reading.


----------



## Notwist

Really loving the G900 from Logitech. That unique clicking mechanism for the main mouse buttons feels so great.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flynes*
> 
> Hi, everyone. I'm currently looking to buy a new mouse and therefore am hoping to get some suggestions.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I use 400 DPI and 8 sensitivity in Overwatch which translates to approximately 43.295cm/360.
> What's your maximum budget?
> I don't have a budget.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No, only two side buttons on the left side.
> What games do you play?
> Overwatch, occasionally Rainbow Six Siege and H1Z1: King of the Kill.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> It must be able to be turned off.
> Other relevant information:
> I have approximately 18x10cm hands (including thumb). I don't mind if the mouse if ergonomic or ambidextrous as long as it would suit my mouse grip and hand size.
> I'm pretty sure that's everything that I have to say, thanks for reading.


I think I am in a fairly unique position to answer this because we both have the same grip, play the same games and have basically the same size hands. Mine are 18x11CM. I have tried a few mice and not a whole lot seem to fit my hand all that well. There are 3 though that I really like but they all have their pro's and cons.

First one would be the Razer Death Adder Elite. Great shape and fits a large hand really well. It has a great sensor, and seems to be built better than all previous Razer mice I have tried. The Razer software sucks though and connects online and is fairly necessary. For some reason even though I like the shape I aim poorly with the DAE. Don't think it's the mouse's fault though it's me.

Next up would be the Roccat EMP. It has fantastic build quality, a great sensor, Decent configuration software, and is very comfortable for large hands. It definitely is falling pretty far towards the big category so keep that in mind. Cons on that one are that it is a tad heavier than most want mice to be at 116G where as most people want them to be 100G or under. This however does not effect me and I can aim better with the EMP than just about any other mouse.

Next recommendation would be the Finalmouse Scream One. This is what I currently use. It's light weight and the shape is perfect... Its sort of an ambidextrous death adder style shape and is great for larger hands. It's my best aiming mouse but it has some issues that I am well aware of mainly that if you tap the mouse on the desk it will activate the M1 button. I had to get used to this and tune my technique because I was activating it while playing mcree in Overwatch. It is also just basic bread and butter no RGB, No config utility, no drivers just one solid color light and a DPI button on the top to switch DPI.


----------



## Phos

My CM spawn's wheel has finally worn out and I never got around to working out the problems with my little attempt to re-body a G502 with 3D printing, and now without a working mouse wheel my hand has been forced. I suppose it's a bit ironic, that the scroll wheel proved to be what caused me to lose interest in the project.

I guess what I'm asking is essentially: Has a better "mouse with a ring finger rest" been released since the spawn? I imagine my ideal mouse would be a sort of FPS version of a Razer Naga or Roccat Nyth. Way back in the day, the Razer Diamondback worked ok for me by managing to kinda hide a right finger rest in plain sight, but then the Sensei style didn't work for me in the slightest, and now I'm hesitant to try beetle style mice. I might have given the Logitech G pro a try, but it doesn't look like it has anywhere for my ring finger.

The Naos would actually work well for me if the pinky area was undercut instead.

- What's your grip style?

All mice that aren't clownshoes big are fingertip mice for me. Yes, even the Naos and Deathadder. No, my hands aren't giant, it's just that most of my hands are finger. This sort of thing is why I have such a hard time finding mice.

- What's your sensitivity?

I'm looking for circa 1800 CPI.

- What's your maximum budget?

I don't have one in mind.

- Do you want additional buttons?

I like two thumb buttons, though I seem to be rather uncommon in that the thumb tip button doesn't bother me.

- What games do you play?

Most relevant at the moment would be Overwatch.

- Do you mind about prediction?

Do mice still have this? Ergonomics tend to outweigh tracking for me.

Other relevant information:
I like onboard memory but I tends to prefer configuring it through a program, and rubberization tends to be hit or miss for me. The spawn is fine, the sort that Mionix uses doesn't work at all for me.

Is a Xornet II worth tracking down? I can't tell if it's been discontinued, it seems a few are available in the channels but it looks like they're shipping from Asia and I can't help but think that their removal of the thumb button fence might lead to a bunch of accidental presses.


----------



## beute

What's your grip style?
Claw/palm

What's your sensitivity?

Mid to high
What's your maximum budget?

60€
Do you want additional buttons?
At least 3 better 4side "thumb"buttons(all on one side)
This is the priority.

What games do you play?
Shooter/lol
Do you mind about prediction?
Not for me, so I guess not, don't think he will notice.
But prefer not to have it.

I just bought the g402, shall I keep it?


----------



## MarkoNis

1. Grip style doesn't matter I'm switching between grips as I play.
2. 400-800 cpi depends on the match, 400 if it's 1v1. 800 if it's 5v5.
3. Money is not an issue I just want to buy 1 mouse not 20.
4. No.
5. CS:GO Quake Osu Starcraft Warcraft III.
6. Yes I mind about anything that the mouse does but my hand doesn't.
7. I'm looking for the best mouse for setting Guinness records in aiming.


----------



## philhalo66

Does anyone have any experience with the ASUS ROG Gladius? it looks perfect for me, my deathadder is badly warn out one of the rubber grips fell off today and I've had to replace the left switch 4 times and im sick of dealing with it. The Gladius has no solder replaceable switches that sounds amazing on paper but i cant find anything for reviews that even mention that.


----------



## RAFFY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philhalo66*
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with the ASUS ROG Gladius? it looks perfect for me, my deathadder is badly warn out one of the rubber grips fell off today and I've had to replace the left switch 4 times and im sick of dealing with it. The Gladius has no solder replaceable switches that sounds amazing on paper but i cant find anything for reviews that even mention that.


Just to let you know there is a ASUS ROG Gladius II which as twice the DPI and some other upgrades over the first generation.


----------



## philhalo66

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAFFY*
> 
> Just to let you know there is a ASUS ROG Gladius II which as twice the DPI and some other upgrades over the first generation.


It looks awesome but its almost double the price so i'll probably get the original one.

On a side note are all steelseries mice crap or did i get a bad one? I bought a rival 300 brand new from newegg and it is the biggest piece of crap i ever saw. My pointer jumps all over the place. and every couple of minutes i can literally see the pointer jittering like its having a seizure or something. As for the scroll wheel, it feels like its scraping on something and it simply doesn't work at all and the clicks are super mushy. Overall it feels like a cheap dollar store mouse my deathadder even though its a razer is vastly superior and it actually feels like a 60 dollar mouse.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philhalo66*
> 
> It looks awesome but its almost double the price so i'll probably get the original one.
> 
> On a side note are all steelseries mice crap or did i get a bad one? I bought a rival 300 brand new from newegg and it is the biggest piece of crap i ever saw. My pointer jumps all over the place. and every couple of minutes i can literally see the pointer jittering like its having a seizure or something. As for the scroll wheel, it feels like its scraping on something and it simply doesn't work at all and the clicks are super mushy. Overall it feels like a cheap dollar store mouse my deathadder even though its a razer is vastly superior and it actually feels like a 60 dollar mouse.


I have had similar experiences with SS mice. Haven't tried one recently though. The ones I had felt ok but broke after a couple months and didn't track very well. I have been tempted to try the Rival 300 but I have been reading that the quality is poor so I have skipped it. As far as Razer goes I think they have greatly improved their quality in the last 3 years or so. I have some 2011-2013 era razer mice and keybords and had quite a few issues but I recently tried a few new razer products including the DA elite and they seemed much better quality wise.


----------



## philhalo66

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I have had similar experiences with SS mice. Haven't tried one recently though. The ones I had felt ok but broke after a couple months and didn't track very well. I have been tempted to try the Rival 300 but I have been reading that the quality is poor so I have skipped it. As far as Razer goes I think they have greatly improved their quality in the last 3 years or so. I have some 2011-2013 era razer mice and keybords and had quite a few issues but I recently tried a few new razer products including the DA elite and they seemed much better quality wise.


Really? most people on here crap on razer every chance they get. I have a deathadder 2013 i have had left click issues for the past year or 2 but i swapped out the switch with an older omron switch (the one that came in the copperhead from 2006) and its been solid for the past 8 months till yesterday when the left side grip finally fell off, If what you say is true i may just get a deathadder elite instead of the Asus mouse.

*Edit* i guess its a MULTICOMP DM1-00P-110-3 switch i replaced the omron one with.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philhalo66*
> 
> Really? most people on here crap on razer every chance they get. I have a deathadder 2013 i have had left click issues for the past year or 2 but i swapped out the switch with an older omron switch (the one that came in the copperhead from 2006) and its been solid for the past 8 months till yesterday when the left side grip finally fell off, If what you say is true i may just get a deathadder elite instead of the Asus mouse.
> 
> *Edit* i guess its a MULTICOMP DM1-00P-110-3 switch i replaced the omron one with.


I have seen people saying the side grip comes off on the DA Elite but other than that there aren't a whole lot of complaints. I think most people have just re glued it with good success if it happens. There is a DA Elite thread here on the forums that has lots of good information. I personally think that the DA Elite is built better than the Logitech G403 and would probably be using it as my main except that for some reason I have never been able to aim all that well with the DA shape even going back to the original DA back in the day.


----------



## pindle

Got a DA Elite and it's well built, the reason I hate Razer is crap software and a tad overpriced. But the mouse is good. Granted, only used it for a couple of weeks so don't know how well it lasts









As for the Rival, maybe I got lucky, but I got a near perfect example. Left/right click are almost the same and feel well without pretravel, no scrollwheel or sensor rattle, sidebuttons feel great actually with also very little pretravel, and their software is much better (imo) than Razer's. It just works without hassle.

For both mice I find the stock feet and cable to be pretty good. I would go as far as to day, compared between these 2, I think the BQ is very similar, but again I could've just been lucky.


----------



## RAFFY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philhalo66*
> 
> It looks awesome but its almost double the price so i'll probably get the original one.


Oh wow I didn't look up any pricing at all. I think I'm going to try this ASUS ROG Spatha mouse. I like that I can try different switches and that its big and heavy. I've always preferred large mouse and the heavier was always better to me.


----------



## ManInTheSuit

1. What's your grip style?

*A while ago, I would have immediately answered palm, but I've recently tried claw-grip, and now I'd say I use a hybrid grip between palm and claw.*

2. What's your sensitivity?

*Medium, if I understood the ESR link right.*

3. What's your maximum budget?

*$100CAD. However, I'm open to options outside of my budget if only to get a look at additional options.*

4. Do you want additional buttons?

*Yes. The two thumb buttons on the side of a mouse are critical for me. All other extra buttons are just luxuries I don't need.*

5. What games do you play?

*A wide range, but my main focus here is a mouse for FPS games like Quake and Overwatch*

6. Do you mind about prediction?

*Yes, I mind. I am not a fan.*

7. Other relevant information:

*My hand size is ~18x9.5cm (thumb included). In addition, I have really sweaty hands, which get worse when things get tense, so a mouse that won't feel like I'm struggling to grab a bar of soap during those intense moments is paramount. Sub-100g weight is preferred as well.*

Appreciate any feedback I get on this, thanks.


----------



## duppex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAFFY*
> 
> Just to let you know there is a ASUS ROG Gladius II which as twice the DPI and some other upgrades over the first generation.


Thanks for the heads up. I am looking for a mouse right now. My current Roccat Kone XTD has the repeat clicking issues on the right button. I do like palm size mouses so was looking into getting a Roccat EMP, or Razer Dathadder Elite. But now seeing this mouse I think it may be the one but need to do some research on it first.

How good was the ASUS ROG Gladius 1?.

What is the price also release date of the ASUS ROG Gladius 2.

I need to see if I can find a review/previews of this mouse.

Ta:thumb:


----------



## Unsaid90

Hello to everyone and thx in advance for even trying to help out








To cut a long story short : in less than 2 years I had two abyssus 2014 mice and BROKE the plastic buttons on both of them. just cracked them in half and I've read other people reporting the same problem so there is no point trying abyssus v2 i guess...
other mouse i used to have and loved : Krait 2013.
need a more durable replacement.

What's your grip style?
My grip style is fingertip I guess, definitely not resting the whole palm on the mouse, slightly touching the back mb.
What's your sensitivity?
800 dpi 500 or 1000hz strictly, dont like 500/1000 dpi
What's your maximum budget?
not really limited , but it has to ship to Russia, Moscow... TorQ x5 damn you.... I just cant order it for a reasonable price
Do you want additional buttons?
NO. absolutely hate additional buttons.
What games do you play?
CSGO would be the most demanding game as far as mouse is concerned. maybe some RTS like Wc3/SC2 at some point.
Do you mind about prediction?
If Krait 2013 and Abyssus 2014 had it to some point, then I dont. otherwise I do.
Other relevant information:
The click delay must be low
not bothered by drivers, i actually kinda like synapse...
low LOD
medium button activation force, but i'd like something easier to press than abyssus.
weight and size - small weight, really small. size and shape - krait 2013/abyssus


P.S.
I want to ask a really weird thing :
In 2007 or 2008 I bought myself a Razer Copperhead... a button switch broke in 2-3 years and I forgot about it, switching to Salmosa. Is it worth trying to revive the mouse with new gliders and switches and just using it at 800 dpi / 1000hz ? will it perform well compared to modern mice ?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unsaid90*
> 
> Hello to everyone and thx in advance for even trying to help out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To cut a long story short : in less than 2 years I had two abyssus 2014 mice and BROKE the plastic buttons on both of them. just cracked them in half and I've read other people reporting the same problem so there is no point trying abyssus v2 i guess...
> other mouse i used to have and loved : Krait 2013.
> need a more durable replacement.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> My grip style is fingertip I guess, definitely not resting the whole palm on the mouse, slightly touching the back mb.
> What's your sensitivity?
> 800 dpi 500 or 1000hz strictly, dont like 500/1000 dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> not really limited , but it has to ship to Russia, Moscow... TorQ x5 damn you.... I just cant order it for a reasonable price
> Do you want additional buttons?
> NO. absolutely hate additional buttons.
> What games do you play?
> CSGO would be the most demanding game as far as mouse is concerned. maybe some RTS like Wc3/SC2 at some point.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> If Krait 2013 and Abyssus 2014 had it to some point, then I dont. otherwise I do.
> Other relevant information:
> The click delay must be low
> not bothered by drivers, i actually kinda like synapse...
> low LOD
> medium button activation force, but i'd like something easier to press than abyssus.
> weight and size - small weight, really small. size and shape - krait 2013/abyssus
> 
> 
> P.S.
> I want to ask a really weird thing :
> In 2007 or 2008 I bought myself a Razer Copperhead... a button switch broke in 2-3 years and I forgot about it, switching to Salmosa. Is it worth trying to revive the mouse with new gliders and switches and just using it at 800 dpi / 1000hz ? will it perform well compared to modern mice ?


maybe Zalman ZM-M600R?
http://zalman.com/contents/products/view.html?no=23

it's small. has the lowest click delay ever pretty much (if you update firmware)
sensor is OK, but not great.

Logitech G102 is small too, or G203, but not super cheap.
great click delay, great sensor, great smaller size/shape too. I fingertip mine no problem.
not as small as the Zalman though.


----------



## Unsaid90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> maybe Zalman ZM-M600R?
> http://zalman.com/contents/products/view.html?no=23
> 
> it's small. has the lowest click delay ever pretty much (if you update firmware)
> sensor is OK, but not great.
> 
> Logitech G102 is small too, or G203, but not super cheap.
> great click delay, great sensor, great smaller size/shape too. I fingertip mine no problem.
> not as small as the Zalman though.


Zalman looks so good on paper it's almost unreal.
I like both of your suggestions and I'll google for some more feedback on those before making a final decision, thx a lot.

Any further suggestions are still welcome though, because , as it appears, both of these mice aren't that good , according to their respective forum threads.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unsaid90*
> 
> Zalman looks so good on paper it's almost unreal.
> I like both of your suggestions and I'll google for some more feedback on those before making a final decision, thx a lot.
> 
> Any further suggestions are still welcome though, because , as it appears, both of these mice aren't that good , according to their respective forum threads.


what is not good about the Logitech one? I have not noticed any issues.
Zalman one is good IME on all-black surfaces. 3090 sensor isn't bad... just not as good as some newer ones.


----------



## Unsaid90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> what is not good about the Logitech one? I have not noticed any issues.
> Zalman one is good IME on all-black surfaces. 3090 sensor isn't bad... just not as good as some newer ones.


well i've read here in a diff thread that for zalman to work better you have to flash some new firmware and even though
it wasn't the biggest turn off , g102 looks better and seems to be built really well. wish i could try both, but I'll go ahead and buy g102







thx for the advise.

P.S. After 3-4 days of using g102 I can confirm that it's not a bad abyssus 2014 replacement. My performances didn't considerably drop in csgo and as I gradually adapt to the new device I'll get even or better.
comparatively to abyssus 2014 this is what i felt.

Pros :
- it looks and feels more durable, better-built.
- the weight is amazing, the mouse is very light.
- it doesn't seem to collect dirt easily
- the buttons are kind of easy to press, but no issues whatsoever.

Cons :
- the mouse at 800 dpi seems (for whatever reason : shape, weight, cord ??? ) to move faster and less controllably. hopefully will adjust.
- the skates (aka gliders) don't glide at all, scratching the cloth pad sometimes







. ordered a replacement. they are trash.
- the cord is very rigid, takes some fiddling to put on the table comfortably.
- the mouse could be a tiny bit bigger imo, my fingers dont quite fit on the buttons and stick out. somehow inexplicably it takes me 10-20 ms longer to click (tested @ humanbenchmark dozens of times compared to my abyssus times )... however my gf who has smaller hands rests her fingers on the buttons completely and gets a weirdly low reaction time







like 150-160 all the time (pretty good for a casual gamer). so the mouse itself is wonderful, but the shape is something to be reviewed on personal basis i guess.

overall thx for the help.


----------



## RAFFY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duppex*
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I am looking for a mouse right now. My current Roccat Kone XTD has the repeat clicking issues on the right button. I do like palm size mouses so was looking into getting a Roccat EMP, or Razer Dathadder Elite. But now seeing this mouse I think it may be the one but need to do some research on it first.
> 
> How good was the ASUS ROG Gladius 1?.
> 
> What is the price also release date of the ASUS ROG Gladius 2.
> 
> I need to see if I can find a review/previews of this mouse.
> 
> Ta:thumb:


You're welcome! I don't know much about ASUS mice at all except from what I've read in a couple reviews. I actually just purchased a brand new ASUS Spatha for $120 off eBay this past weekend. I should have it in the next couple days. Its supposed to be extremely heavily but I liked that I could take the mouse apart by removing 4 screws and then I am able to install other switches. It is also supposed to feel extremely well made and premium which is both important to me. I cant stand cheap feeling mice.


----------



## Pinball

Hey Guys,
after my g500 had an issue with the right mouse button i got the g500s from logitech support because i luckily was still in warrranty. But now my g500s has the double clicking issue with the left mouse button. Im looking for a new mouse and i could use some suggestions.










What's your grip style?
I use palm grip.
What's your sensitivity?
I guess medium sensitivity. I dont know if it helps but currently my mouse is set at 800 dpi with minimum ingame sensitivity.
What's your maximum budget?
80 €.
Do you want additional buttons?
I want 2 thumb buttons and prefereably no more extra buttons than these 2.
What games do you play?
Mostly RTS like LoL and Starcraft and less frequently FPS like Battlefield.
Do you mind about prediction?
I guess no prediction is always better but i doubt i would notice it. I wouldnt mind a mouse with prediction if it fits my other criteria.
Other relevant information:
My top priority is a durable mouse that is not prone to button issues since im probably very hard on my mice.
I also want the thumb buttons to be of good quality so they have a "responsive" feeling.
If possible i would like the mouse to be a bit smaller and lighter than the g500. I specifically dont like its height.
About the shape: If it helps I like the shape of the deathadder but i heard that its prone to the double clicking syndrome








All help is appreciated


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pinball*
> 
> Hey Guys,
> after my g500 had an issue with the right mouse button i got the g500s from logitech support because i luckily was still in warrranty. But now my g500s has the double clicking issue with the left mouse button. Im looking for a new mouse and i could use some suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> I use palm grip.
> What's your sensitivity?
> I guess medium sensitivity. I dont know if it helps but currently my mouse is set at 800 dpi with minimum ingame sensitivity.
> What's your maximum budget?
> 80 €.
> Do you want additional buttons?
> I want 2 thumb buttons and prefereably no more extra buttons than these 2.
> What games do you play?
> Mostly RTS like LoL and Starcraft and less frequently FPS like Battlefield.
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I guess no prediction is always better but i doubt i would notice it. I wouldnt mind a mouse with prediction if it fits my other criteria.
> Other relevant information:
> My top priority is a durable mouse that is not prone to button issues since im probably very hard on my mice.
> I also want the thumb buttons to be of good quality so they have a "responsive" feeling.
> If possible i would like the mouse to be a bit smaller and lighter than the g500. I specifically dont like its height.
> About the shape: If it helps I like the shape of the deathadder but i heard that its prone to the double clicking syndrome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All help is appreciated


Check out the Roccat EMP. Its a fairly large mouse but a hair smaller than the G500, great ergo shape and built really really well. It's also got really nice side buttons and a really well made and nice feeling tilt scroll wheel. Search on the forums, we have a really nice thread going on it. It's also lighter than the G500 by a bit so that sounds like what you are looking for in that aspect as well.


----------



## Chalupa

[*] What's your grip style?
Palm grip
[*] What's your sensitivity?
I don't know the exact dpi but I like higher sensitivity than most people.
[*] What's your maximum budget?
Any
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
I don't normally use side buttons, prefer simple.
[*] What games do you play?
Overwatch, League of Legends, Minecraft, various single player games.
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
No. I don't think so at least.
[*] Other relevant information:
I currently have been using Minonix Naos' for the past four years. I've tried a
Logitech g502 but it was too small for my hand and caused cramping. I love my Naos but I wouldn't mind something new. I also don't like the Naos' scroll wheel. I really like the g403 but I'm afraid I will end up going back to my Naos if it's too small like the 502.


----------



## Chirsu

Anyone can suggest something similar to EC2-A for palm grip, but with any of those changes?
1) Hump more towards the back
2) better plastic
3) don't mind it being ambi


----------



## munchzilla

sounds like G403 to me... plastic being better I dunno, it's rubber coated.
it's not ambi but hump is more back and taller.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> sounds like G403 to me... plastic being better I dunno, it's rubber coated.
> it's not ambi but hump is more back and taller.


Yeah, I've been thinking about G403 and ZA12. But ZA12 has the same plastic cause zowies and I'm afraid that g403 is bigger than EC2-a


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Yeah, I've been thinking about G403 and ZA12. But ZA12 has the same plastic cause zowies and I'm afraid that g403 is bigger than EC2-a


G403 is bigger, za hump is kind of at the back. The za11 is massive so avoid that. The za12 is ok and the 13 I'd say is for like holding forward with your fingers? It's the same plastic. It's not terrible but you don't have many options


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Anyone can suggest something similar to EC2-A for palm grip, but with any of those changes?
> 1) Hump more towards the back
> 2) better plastic
> 3) don't mind it being ambi


i have a cheap plastic spray bottle and a small towel by my side and I wipe my hands free of sweat every 3-5 mins, this way the EC2-A is usable for me...otherwise it gets slippery


----------



## brinzerdecalli

Hey everyone!

Any suggestions for a disabled 3D animator?

I've been looking around, watching videos, but normal reviews look for different things than what I need, so I thought it worth an ask.

I have severely limited range and strength in my arms/hands and use two hands on one mouse. I'm looking to get a mouse with many buttons to reduce the use of my onscreen keyboard. I need something small, light, quiet, and smooth. I also need the buttons to be very easy to press/click. My ideal would be a thin mouse with multiple wheels, and many buttons [not possible to have too many, even if I'm pressing them with a fingernail cause my fingers are too big, but I have really fine fingers to start] on a sort of thumb-rest pad [not on the side of the mouse like the corsair scimitar, but more parallel to the table] or at the back of the mouse. Sadly I've not found such a mouse type.

Any Ideas?

Maybe even a small button pad that I can just glue on the side of a mouse?

No clue...

Thanks!﻿


----------



## oskid

Hello

I'm looking for my WMO replacement because it seems after moving to Windows 10 I can't overclock it anymore.

What's your grip style?
palm
What's your sensitivity?
400 dpi, rather low/medium
What's your maximum budget?
70$
Do you want additional buttons?
not necessarily
What games do you play?
mostly FPS: Quake Live (waiting for Quake Champions), DOOM, CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction?
I guess for FPS gaming I don't want prediction?

I would prefer the shape and size of WMO, so I was thinking about some ZOWIE mouse (they look similar) but I'm not sure which model is worth picking (sensor wise).

edit: hand size: medium/large. It's ~19,5cm/7,5"


----------



## Ryusaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oskid*
> 
> Hello
> 
> I'm looking for my WMO replacement because it seems after moving to Windows 10 I can't overclock it anymore.
> 
> What's your grip style?
> palm
> What's your sensitivity?
> 400 dpi, rather low/medium
> What's your maximum budget?
> 70$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> not necessarily
> What games do you play?
> mostly FPS: Quake Live (waiting for Quake Champions), DOOM, CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction?
> I guess for FPS gaming I don't want prediction?
> 
> I would prefer the shape and size of WMO, so I was thinking about some ZOWIE mouse (they look similar) but I'm not sure which model is worth picking (sensor wise).


What is your hand size?

U might want to look into the Logitech G Pro/G102, Zowie FK(1,2,+) or Nixeus Revel. All of those mentioned are ambi mices like the WMO and light weight.


----------



## oskid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryusaki*
> 
> What is your hand size?
> 
> U might want to look into the Logitech G Pro/G102, Zowie FK(1,2,+) or Nixeus Revel. All of those mentioned are ambi mices like the WMO and light weight.


My hand size is medium/large. It's ~19,5cm/7,5". Thanks for suggestions.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> G403 is bigger, za hump is kind of at the back. The za11 is massive so avoid that. The za12 is ok and the 13 I'd say is for like holding forward with your fingers? It's the same plastic. It's not terrible but you don't have many options


Thanks. I guess I'll try ZA12 when possible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> i have a cheap plastic spray bottle and a small towel by my side and I wipe my hands free of sweat every 3-5 mins, this way the EC2-A is usable for me...otherwise it gets slippery


That's kind of stupid that you have to do it on a 60$ mouse, I hope they make a plastic similar to logitech or razer.
I'm also thinking about giving a try to white EC2-A. Maybe, just maybe, my hands will be less sweaty with the white one


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oskid*
> 
> My hand size is medium/large. It's ~19,5cm/7,5". Thanks for suggestions.


I think with hand this size and palm grip - you should try zowie EC1-A, Razer Deathadder or Logitech G403. I have g pro and I can't palm it. My hands are 18.5, but it's too small to palm even for me.


----------



## jla1

Is there something like ambidextrous like a DM1 Pro but with a better mouse wheel? Because my DM1 Pro's mouse wheel just broke for the second time.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jla1*
> 
> Is there something like ambidextrous like a DM1 Pro but with a better mouse wheel? Because my DM1 Pro's mouse wheel just broke for the second time.


Nixeus revel? Also maybe zowies, ZA or FK, idk what's closer to the sensei shape


----------



## jla1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Nixeus revel? Also maybe zowies, ZA or FK, idk what's closer to the sensei shape


OK thanks, I ordered a FK1+. I didn't know they made a wider FK1.


----------



## pcgamebeer

*1. What's your grip style?*

Mixed of Claw/fingertip.

*2. What's your sensitivity?*

Ranging from 1200 to 2000

*3. What's your maximum budget?*

About 100 dollars

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*

It would be nice, sniping button on left side of mice

*5. What games do you play?*

Only FPS games. Especially World of Tanks

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*

What does it mean?

*7. Whats your hand size?*

S/M, right handed

*8. Other relevant information:*

I'm looking for the mouse that immune to/durable for double clicking issue. Preferring wired or wired/wireless

Please, can you give some advice?


----------



## mosin40

*1. What's your grip style?*
Palm grip

*2. What's your sensitivity?*
900dpi

*3. What's your maximum budget?*
Don't have a maximum budget.

*4. Do you want additional buttons?*
Just a couple of thumb buttons and to change dpi

*5. What games do you play?*
I mostly play FPS like overwatch, csgo and so

*6. Do you mind about prediction?*
nope, but preferably without it

*7. Other relevant information:*
I'd like light mouse, preferably a matte surface. Hand is 17cm long (from middle finger to wrist) and 9cm wide


----------



## sberla

Hello everyone
I'm looking for a G502 replacement
Ideally, it should be a mouse with a non-changing shape, like the Revel or the Zowie's, with the 336X sensor onboard and good buttons.
For "non-changing shape" I mean, I shape that is here to stay, that would make it easy to get a new mouse if necessary.
Sadly, Logitech does not offer, at least, one safe shape that's here to stay for years, they keep changing every time.

Actually, I have a Logitech G502 and a new G203 that I bought to try the G Pro shape.
The only cons of the G502 for me is the weight.
Of the G203 I don't like the side buttons, they are hard to press and to reach (compared to G502 which are awesome), I would have liked them to be closer to the back of the mouse.
*[*] What's your grip style?
*Well I don't know if I should say its Figertips because I touch the mouse with some little parts of the hand too.
Since my English is not great, here are some pictures to help you to understand


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




The red area is where I grip the mouse.
Sometimes I touch the mouse with the orange part of my hand too.









*[*] What's your sensitivity?
* 800 dpi everywhere. 37.1 cm for 360. Medium Sens I'd say.

*[*] What's your maximum budget?
* Not really a budget, but let fix it at ~ €60 max.

*[*] Do you want additional buttons?
* I liked the extra buttons on G502 but I'd prefer not, to avoid depend too much on them.

*[*] What games do you play?
* Nothing competitive: CS:GO, Dirty Bomb (a fast paced FPS), Terraria when I need relax









*[*] Do you mind about prediction?
* Better not

*[*] Other relevant information:
*
I love the G203 / GPRO weight. Its so effortless to move and quickly aim.
I'm used to ambidextrous shape due to the mouse I've at works which have always been ambidextrous, but at the same time I have no issue at all with the G502 shape.
I tried and I did not liked at all the G403 shape, felt bulky, big, I had not a good grip on that mouse.
I prefer I non-braided cord and the buttons to not be too much stiff since I do not put much pressure on them while not clicking. I mean, I rarely misclik
Programmable buttons would be great, just for those games which do not work with the default, forward, back function of side buttons.
I'm really curious about the Revel. I'm also curious about the G900 shape. Those side buttons look perfect.

edit: returned the G203


----------



## newphonewhodis

Hi, former high level cs and quake player here. I stopped playing games professionally around 5 years ago, and I'm now looking for a mouse to replace my kinzu v1 as I build new setups for myself and my stepson.

Performance at different sensitivities and prediction are largely unimportant to me. I do value m1 switches that take a smaller amount of force, as well as a mouse with weight and width comparable to the kinzu. I'd also like a mouse with a proven track record of success at a high level of fps gaming.

As of right now, the two mice that I've found that somewhat match my parameters are:
Logitech g pro -- switches similar to kinzu seem good, but it seems to have a much more rounded shape relative to the kinzu
Zowie za13 - shape and size are similar to kinzu, but I believe the switches require a high amount of force to activate relative to the kinzu v1


----------



## theotherspartan

Hello everyone
I'm looking to replace my CM Storm Spawn with a more modern mouse and want to try something new (i.e. not a CM Storm Xornet II).
*What's your grip style?
*My hand is roughly 17cm long and 10 cm wide and using tiny laptop mice and the Spawn itself over the years has left me with a weird "mostly claw" grip style (mouse 1 and 2 button fingers always curled; sometimes my palm butts up against the back of the mouse, sometimes I look down and notice that I'm only using my fingertips)

*What's your sensitivity?
* I just got used to using the fastest dpi step on the Spawn. It's always translated motion well enough to my liking that I rarely tinker with sensitivity settings in game unless something is way off.

*What's your maximum budget?
* Let's say less than $70 USD.

*Do you want additional buttons?
* I like at least 2 buttons on the side and some kind of button or buttons up top to switch DPI are nice.

*What games do you play?
* CS:GO, Titanfall 2, Battlefield 1, StarCraft 2

*Do you mind about prediction?
* Not sure. Never payed attention to whether my Spawn had any or not.

*Other relevant information:
*
I tried a Deathadder, a G502, and a G403 in store; they seemed more like palm mice to me (again, my hand is 17cm/10cm) and I'm not sure I can go back to that at this point after using the Spawn and laptop mice for so long. The Abyssus v2 was the only mouse at the store on display that felt close to right, which leads me to believe I need a shorter mouse, but the Abyssus doesn't have any side buttons.


----------



## Hegeric

*What's your grip style?*
Hybrid claw/palm, I grip my G303 having the base of my hand touching the pad, the part right below the fingers (not sure what it is called) touching a bit above the butt of the mouse (the middle of my hand is not touching anything), while my fingers are arched towards the buttons not too aggressively. I also use my fingers to make adjustements.

*What's your sensitivity?*
I usually play with around 50cm for a 360° in games, which would translate to around 1.55 to 2.2 sensitivity on CS GO at 400 dpi.
My hand measurements are exactly 18cm in length and 9cm in width.

*What's your maximum budget?*
I don't care how much I'll spend as long as I'm comfortable.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
I never use the extra buttons, so I don't care really.

*What games do you play?*
Shooters in general, some Dota 2 here and there, but mostly CS GO.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Don't really know how it works, if it's something like acceleration then I want nothing to do with it.

*Other relevant information:*

I've used ambidextrous mice the most, I've never tried an ergo shape long enough to make a judgement. The mouse I had most accuracy with was a cheap logitech m100, but it was not particularly comfortable.

My history of mice is the next: Logitech m100 > Logitech G502 (I hated its weight, I disliked its shape, hated its mouse skates, and loved the sensor) > Logitech G303 (I'm very inconsistent with this mouse, sometimes gripping it will cramp me after a while, I also feel I am inconsistent with it due to the lack of a base, that been said when I perform, I'm very accurate.

I'm currently torn between buying a DM1 Pro S which on paper is really good but I've heard constant complaints about the QC. On the other hand there is the Zowie EC2-A which I heard many good things about, but I keep hearing complaints about the coating, but I don't think I would really mind since I care mostly about shape. My hands get sweaty after playing a bit by the way. There's also the doubt in the back of my mind that the Zowie FK1 would work for me too.

Keep in mind that I cannot try any of these mice beforehand, I need to import them since they are not even available where I live.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hegeric*
> 
> Keep in mind that I cannot try any of these mice beforehand, I need to import them since they are not even available where I live.


I know that feeling, bro








I have EC2-A benq edition and while my hand was barely having any sweat on Logitech G Pro - with EC2-A it's a rain of sweat, but the shape is quite good. Also I think there is a barely noticeable difference compared to 3360, but it might be placebo. But it's good, the difference is far from being enough to chose a less comfortable shape and 3360, better shape and 3310 is an easy choice.


----------



## Hegeric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> I know that feeling, bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have EC2-A benq edition and while my hand was barely having any sweat on Logitech G Pro - with EC2-A it's a rain of sweat, but the shape is quite good. Also I think there is a barely noticeable difference compared to 3360, but it might be placebo. But it's good, the difference is far from being enough to chose a less comfortable shape and 3360, better shape and 3310 is an easy choice.


Is it easily liftable? Every time I flick my mouse I reposition it to the center of my mousepad (sort of what pro player c9 Shroud does) so I do it quite often, but if it falls off my hands it's a no go.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hegeric*
> 
> Is it easily liftable? Every time I flick my mouse I reposition it to the center of my mousepad (sort of what pro player c9 Shroud does) so I do it quite often, but if it falls off my hands it's a no go.


No, I think it's close to impossible to drop it thanks to smart shell design. But I never had such a problem with g pro, razer abyssus or ss sensei, so I'm not sure.


----------



## Ricwin

_What's your grip style?
_Between fingertip and palm

_What's your sensitivity?
_Max DPI, low sensitivity ingame

_What's your maximum budget?_
£30

_Do you want additional buttons?_
At least 2 in addition to the usual L, R, M

_What games do you play?
_EVE online, BF1, WoT, WoWS

_Do you mind about prediction?
_Unknown

_Other relevant information:
_My favourite mouse (now relegated to basic office tasks in work) is the Logitech G9. Had it since release, still going strong.
Recently had a Razer Naga, which was RMA'd after 6 months due to a crap sensor. Its replacement, Mamba TE Chroma, is now doing the same thing with the sensor and completely freezes at random until it is unplugged form the PC...
I need a second mouse to take around with my new laptop, prefer a wireless mouse for this purpose. I'd like something similar to the G9 if at all possible.

Onto something else though, is anything considered a suitable successor to the Logitech G9? I intend to replace this Mamaba TE asap and the retailer I got it from recently started stocking the Logitech G900 Chaos which may fit both roles of wired for home use and wireless with laptop.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

What's your grip style?
palm

What's your sensitivity?
CS:GO 800 DPI @ 1.0 Sens. Other games 1600 DPI

What's your maximum budget?
Max of about 80$

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes

What games do you play?
CS:GO, Fallout 4, Bioshock, Overwatch, Skyrim, Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor. Etc anything that is in my library.

Do you mind about prediction?
no acceleration or able to turn off.

Other relevant information:

Currently running a Mionix Naos 7000 and I love how well it fits my hand. However the sensor is leaving a lot to be desired and I'm currently looking for a replacement. The sensor in this thing will randomly stop responding in multiple directions which is causing issues in competitive games.


----------



## megacharacter

*Grip: Relaxed-ish Claw Grip: Thumb on side, index finger on LMB, middle and ring finger sit together on RMB, and pinkie rests on side.

Sensitivity: Very slow right now, but I switch very frequently. Don't know my good sensitivity.

Budget: Budget's not really an issue

Buttons: Don't need extra buttons

Games: Quake and Overwatch

Sensor: Perfect sensor - at least a 3310 or equivalent.*

My hand is 20 - 21 x 10 - 11cm. I've been having a really hard time finding a mouse I can just sit down and play games with comfortably.

The four shapes I could almost get used to were the FK1, the Kone Pure Military, the ScreaM One, and the G403. FK1 felt very maneuverable but cramped the right edge of my palm. Kone Pure Military can feel pretty nice sometimes and also feels very maneuverable but the right curve tends to slip out of my hand. The ScreaM One felt right at first but it has those stupid DeathAdder finger grooves on LMB and RMB which make claw grip hell, and it also cramped the right edge of my palm. G403 felt awesome at first but it was just a bit small.

I've tried every Zowie, the DeathAdder, all of the 3366 Logitechs, Sensei, Abyssus, Rival 300, and the NAOS 7000. I just wanna play some video games comfortably, man. You average-sized palm grippers seem to have it so easy.


----------



## damnwebsite

I'm probably going to end up rma'ing my razer deathadder twice now, so im looking for a mouse with similar size/dimensions as it. (i really like the shape)

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip apparantly

*What's your sensitivity?*
800 i guess, i stick around 650 i think

*What's your maximum budget?*
I live internationally but i have my eyes set on a logitech g403/steelseries rival 300/zowie fk1 (benq)

*Do you want additional buttons?*
just front and back (the ones u use on webpages to go back and forth)

*What games do you play?*
Solidworks :^))) I play anything

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Dunno

*Other relevant information:*
Nah not much, just would like a mouse similar to the razer deathadder, the three mice i listed above
(logitech g403/steelseries rival 300/zowie fk1 (benq)) are basically what im set on buying. Just would like to know if any have really high failure rates/flimsy build quality etc/similar in size to deathadder


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

zowie ec-1


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> My hand is 20 - 21 x 10 - 11cm. I've been having a really hard time finding a mouse I can just sit down and play games with comfortably.
> 
> The four shapes I could almost get used to were the FK1, the Kone Pure Military, the ScreaM One, and the G403. FK1 felt very maneuverable but cramped the right edge of my palm. Kone Pure Military can feel pretty nice sometimes and also feels very maneuverable but the right curve tends to slip out of my hand. The ScreaM One felt right at first but it has those stupid DeathAdder finger grooves on LMB and RMB which make claw grip hell, and it also cramped the right edge of my palm. G403 felt awesome at first but it was just a bit small.
> 
> I've tried every Zowie, the DeathAdder, all of the 3366 Logitechs, Sensei, Abyssus, Rival 300, and the NAOS 7000. I just wanna play some video games comfortably, man. You average-sized palm grippers seem to have it so easy.


You should look into the Ventus X optical. My hands are 19.5x10 and I love the G403, but it's just a tad too small to be perfect. Don't know if you ever used the IME 3.0? I think that best resembles its shape, except the very slight ringfinger groove on the right is not there/way less pronounced.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damnwebsite*
> 
> I'm probably going to end up rma'ing my razer deathadder twice now, so im looking for a mouse with similar size/dimensions as it. (i really like the shape)
> 
> *What's your grip style?*
> Fingertip apparantly
> 
> *What's your sensitivity?*
> 800 i guess, i stick around 650 i think
> 
> *What's your maximum budget?*
> I live internationally but i have my eyes set on a logitech g403/steelseries rival 300/zowie fk1 (benq)
> 
> *Do you want additional buttons?*
> just front and back (the ones u use on webpages to go back and forth)
> 
> *What games do you play?*
> Solidworks :^))) I play anything
> 
> *Do you mind about prediction?*
> Dunno
> 
> *Other relevant information:*
> Nah not much, just would like a mouse similar to the razer deathadder, the three mice i listed above
> (logitech g403/steelseries rival 300/zowie fk1 (benq)) are basically what im set on buying. Just would like to know if any have really high failure rates/flimsy build quality etc/similar in size to deathadder


EC1-A has a very similar shape and size to deathadder, but sidebuttons are bad.I'd suggest buying another deathadder if you like it so much. Or just G403, which should be a bit smaller but good quality sidebuttons too. Can't comment on the rest.


----------



## damnwebsite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> EC1-A has a very similar shape and size to deathadder, but sidebuttons are bad.I'd suggest buying another deathadder if you like it so much. Or just G403, which should be a bit smaller but good quality sidebuttons too. Can't comment on the rest.


I guess the only way to see if i like the mouse is to try them, i can afford to buy the ec1-a but i just dont like spending too much lol.

I guess to reword my question would be 'for the 3 mice i listed, do any of them have bad build quality/ie dont buy it'

I'm going to RMA my deathadder, but ill probably stick with some crappy mouse for a while, i was about to buy another mouse but id rather let my warranty start when my deathadder dies again.

Thanks


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damnwebsite*
> 
> I guess the only way to see if i like the mouse is to try them, i can afford to buy the ec1-a but i just dont like spending too much lol.
> 
> I guess to reword my question would be 'for the 3 mice i listed, do any of them have bad build quality/ie dont buy it'
> 
> I'm going to RMA my deathadder, but ill probably stick with some crappy mouse for a while, i was about to buy another mouse but id rather let my warranty start when my deathadder dies again.
> 
> Thanks


Some people find g403 buttons to sensetive and fk buttons too tight, also both might have QA issues, but I don't think those are often, my EC2-A and g pro were both perfect. Also I adapted to g pro light buttons pretty fast, which has buttons very similar to g403. Can't comment on rival, but I'm not a big fan of SS switches


----------



## damnwebsite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Some people find g403 buttons to sensetive and fk buttons too tight, also both might have QA issues, but I don't think those are often, my EC2-A and g pro were both perfect. Also I adapted to g pro light buttons pretty fast, which has buttons very similar to g403. Can't comment on rival, but I'm not a big fan of SS switches


I went to the store and they had some steelseries rival 100/300 on display, sadly no zowie mice on display nor did they have the g403 on display. They had the g502 and the g900? or something, but i dont want those really edgy mice with spiky sides, id prefer something smoother.

Ill take another look at the g403 because its pretty cheap, same as the rival 100 (but its small), the zowie fk1 and rival300 are the same price... But if i want to save money iduno


----------



## Nawafwabs

What's your grip style?
Palm grip

What's your sensitivity?
1.2 @ 800dpi
What's your maximum budget?
200$
Do you want additional buttons?
No
What games do you play?
Overwatch, CSGO, BF1 ( competitive most of time )
Do you mind about prediction?
What's right for better gaming experience?

Other relevant information:
I have rival 700, I like the shape of mouse but I want mouse with good accuracy and less latency
so I plan for a good mouse for Competitive gameplay.

I'm currently using Steelseries Mousepad.
I hate mouse razer.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> What's your grip style?
> Palm grip
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 1.2 @ 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget?
> 200$
> Do you want additional buttons?
> No
> What games do you play?
> Overwatch, CSGO, BF1 ( competitive most of time )
> Do you mind about prediction?
> What's right for better gaming experience?
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I have rival 700, I like the shape of mouse but I want mouse with good accuracy and less latency
> so I plan for a good mouse for Competitive gameplay.
> 
> I'm currently using Steelseries Mousepad.
> I hate mouse razer.


G403 wireless? Or the G502, if you prefer the weight of it. ;3


----------



## SpiLLi

anything out these days similar to the FK2?

Been out of the loop for a while


----------



## madbrayniak

What's your grip style? Hybrid Palm-Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 800-1600
What's your maximum budget? $100
Do you want additional buttons? Possibly
What games do you play? TF2, Tomb Raider, Borderlands, Witcher 3, Dropzone(trying out MOBAs)
Do you mind about prediction? Not a big fan
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Currently using Steelseries Sensei that is starting to show it's age as it is about 5 years old now.

I prefer driverless but open to other option.

my thumb and back of palm rest on the mouse pad with sensei and would like to get my hand a bit more elevated for smoother flcks. Was looking at Zowie ZA series as a result but everything I have read seems to point toward them only being good for FPS.


----------



## pruik6

Hi guys i can buy a Zowie FK1+ for 30 euro, i have big hands. Shall i buy it?


----------



## dominick1233

What's your grip style?
*Palm, I currently have a palm/grip hybrid style going on because of my massive hands not fitting with most mice.*
What's your sensitivity?
*1600 - 3200 is average for me depending on game*
What's your maximum budget?
*$150*
Do you want additional buttons?
*2 buttons on side is all I really feel like I can hit accurately, so a huge number of buttons isn't a big concern.*
What games do you play?
*FFXIV, Overwatch, Ark, LoL, Occasionally good single player game.*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Would prefer to not have any acceleration/prediction, accurate mouse is always good mouse.*
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*I like heavy mice or weight customization to make it heavy, aluminum body/frame is a plus, wireless is okay too as long as its decent battery life (more than five days without charging), driver-less is a plus but not a huge concern either, onboard memory doesn't matter as I don't really move my mouse to different locations.*
Some pictures down below with my current driver the Mionix Naos 7000, so definitely something larger than this mouse would be a plus.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominick1233*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> *Palm, I currently have a palm/grip hybrid style going on because of my massive hands not fitting with most mice.*
> What's your sensitivity?
> *1600 - 3200 is average for me depending on game*
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$150*
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *2 buttons on side is all I really feel like I can hit accurately, so a huge number of buttons isn't a big concern.*
> What games do you play?
> *FFXIV, Overwatch, Ark, LoL, Occasionally good single player game.*
> Do you mind about prediction?
> *Would prefer to not have any acceleration/prediction, accurate mouse is always good mouse.*
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> *I like heavy mice or weight customization to make it heavy, aluminum body/frame is a plus, wireless is okay too as long as its decent battery life (more than five days without charging), driver-less is a plus but not a huge concern either, onboard memory doesn't matter as I don't really move my mouse to different locations.*
> Some pictures down below with my current driver the Mionix Naos 7000, so definitely something larger than this mouse would be a plus.


I'd say the Logitech G502, for the sensor, weight customization, and for being a palm grip mouse. The braided cable on the G502 isn't Logitech's worst, either, but you could always replace it with a weightless Paracord cable made by CeeSA. Imo, it's well worth it. I personally like the shape of it the most out of my other mice, and the button placement is great despite how many of them there are. But as with anyone, the shape might not suit you the same as me. I know Roccat has made some pretty big mice as well that you might wanna check out, too.


----------



## Hefner

Hey guys,

I need your expertise.

I've been using the legendary WMO for years on end, love it, still do. However, I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and 2 extra buttons on the side would be extremely useful. I tried a Zowie FK series 2 years ago, and the sensor felt good enough(still not as good), but really didn't like the heavy feel of the Huano switches. I heard that Zowie would be re-released with Omron switches and I was looking forward to getting one, but apparently that has been canceled also.

tl;dr: I need a recommendation for a 5 button mouse with a similar quality sensor and shape to the WMO, with light feeling switches.

[*] What's your grip style?
*Palm*
[*] What's your sensitivity?
*400 DPI*
[*] What's your maximum budget?
*Money is not an issue*
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
*2 Extra buttons on the side*
[*] What games do you play?
*CS:GO, Battlefield franchise, Guild Wars 2*
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
*I don't like prediction*
[*] Other relevant information:
*Read the above*

Thanks in advance


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I need your expertise.
> 
> I've been using the legendary WMO for years on end, love it, still do. However, I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and 2 extra buttons on the side would be extremely useful. I tried a Zowie FK series 2 years ago, and the sensor felt good enough(still not as good), but really didn't like the heavy feel of the Huano switches. I heard that Zowie would be re-released with Omron switches and I was looking forward to getting one, but apparently that has been canceled also.
> 
> tl;dr: I need a recommendation for a 5 button mouse with a similar quality sensor and shape to the WMO, with light feeling switches.
> 
> [*] What's your grip style?
> *Palm*
> [*] What's your sensitivity?
> *400 DPI*
> [*] What's your maximum budget?
> *Money is not an issue*
> [*] Do you want additional buttons?
> *2 Extra buttons on the side*
> [*] What games do you play?
> *CS:GO, Battlefield franchise, Guild Wars 2*
> [*] Do you mind about prediction?
> *I don't like prediction*
> [*] Other relevant information:
> *Read the above*
> 
> Thanks in advance


G403 my d00d



The shape is definitely different, though. Maybe someone else can suggest one more like the WMO.


----------



## dominick1233

lots of Logitech recommendations, looks like I'll be trying that g502 when I get my new computer parts in and see if my hand can adjust to it.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominick1233*
> 
> lots of Logitech recommendations, looks like I'll be trying that g502 when I get my new computer parts in and see if my hand can adjust to it.


g502 not good for big hand


----------



## AwesomeGamer

*What's your grip style?*
Claw-fingertip hybrid'ish
*What's your sensitivity?*
800 eDPI (800 dpi 1 in-game sens)
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Doesn't matter much
*What games do you play?*
CS:GO
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yes
Other relevant information:
Hello.
I'm thinking of purchasing the G Pro but my main concern is with the shape. I quite liked playing with the g303. I have a somewhat eccentric claw/fingertip hybrid (apologies for the pictures; I'd take better ones but I no longer have the mouse) where my thumb presses aggressively against the side and the part of my palm under my pinky and ring finger (top left of my hand essentially) pushes the hump of the mouse. Because the g303 had the diamond back I simply couldn't get used to it. I'm wondering if the g pro would be better in that department? I generally like medium-sized mice that are light. Thanks.

Ki


----------



## Trippy

I'm thinking about switching my grip to fingertip (I used it back in the early 2000's) what current mice under $60 are best to use fingertip grip with for people with 19cm tall and 10cm wide hands? I already own the g303, EC2-A, Deathadder 2013, FK1. Out of all of them I think the EC2-A works best but I think I would like something maybe small and ambidextrous, like maybe the fk2?


----------



## AyyMD

What's your grip style? I can use anthing, but I mostly use palm.
What's your sensitivity? Medium
What's your maximum budget? $70 (I can probably spend a little more, but all my choices are listed below).
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play? Geometry Dash, CSGO, DOOM, Skyrim, KSP, American Truck Simulator, The Witcher 2 and 3, GTAV, Far Cry 4, Project CARS, Battlefield 1 and 4, and that's really it.
Do you mind about prediction? I'd not really want it always on.
Other relevant information: Mice are down below.
Mice within my budget:

Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum
Logitech G Pro (like I used to have)
Logitech G403 Wired
Corsair M65 Pro (general opinion of this is not too good right?)
Corsair Scimitar Pro
Steelseries Rival 300
Razer Deathadder Elite (like what I'm having to use right now)
Mice for a little bit more money:

Logitech G403 Wireless ($10 more)
Steelseries Rival 700 (~$5 more)
Razer Mamba TE (garbage I assume, about $4 more)
Razer Naga V2 (ew laser, $10 more)


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I'm thinking about switching my grip to fingertip (I used it back in the early 2000's) what current mice under $60 are best to use fingertip grip with for people with 19cm tall and 10cm wide hands? I already own the g303, EC2-A, Deathadder 2013, FK1. Out of all of them I think the EC2-A works best but I think I would like something maybe small and ambidextrous, like maybe the fk2?


Try the G203 and see if the shape works for you. ;P


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Try the G203 and see if the shape works for you. ;P


why not the gpro? It's $48 on Amazon right now.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> why not the gpro? It's $48 on Amazon right now.


Oh yeah. Didn't realize that cuz I was looking at the price on Logitech's site. Yeah, I'd totally go with that.

Better sensor, better materials, surface tuning, etc. You'll want one of these, though.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Try the G203 and see if the shape works for you. ;P


why not the gpro
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Oh yeah. Didn't realize that cuz I was looking at the price on Logitech's site. Yeah, I'd totally go with that.
> 
> Better sensor, better materials, surface tuning, etc. You'll want one of these, though.


Yea, I hate the cords on the g303 so much that I stripped it of it's braiding. I will probably get either the GPRO if no one has a case to make for the FK2 or any other mouse.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

I was ready to purchase a Ducky Secret M, I was wondering does ANYONE have a review they could share with me? Personal experiences with it? I liked the larger one but I haven't heard much of anything about the M. Any help would be appreciated. I know it has a 3310, why are people constantly crapping all over it when most pro gamers are forced to use that in tournaments? Currently using WMO. Thanks all!


----------



## Meleadeles

Hello everyone, I'm seeking a new mouse, and, not knowing lot in this field, I'm coming towards you for help.

What's your grip style?
Depends of the size of the mouse. Actually I have a Razer Naga Hex, which is a bit short so I use a Fingertip/Claw grip. I don't think I will change that when I will be playing, but I might appreciate a longer mouse so that I can use palm grip when I'm doing non-game stuff.

What's your sensitivity?
I set my mouse at 1200Dpi on Overwatch, and 1600 on MOBA's. I'm actually training to use 400Dpi on FPS like Overwatch and Quake Live, I find this sens confortable and precise, I just don't have the habit of doing large movements yet.

What's your maximum budget?
40$. Actually, my sight is set on four mices of similar pricing:
-Logitech G203
-Corsair Katar
-Steelseries rival 100
-Roccat Lua
EDIT: There is also the Logitech g300s which is sold at 24,99$ in a store nearby. But I heard that this mouse have problem when moved at high speeds. Anyone that can confirm that?

Do you want additional buttons?
That would be a nice addition, I'm used to my Naga Hex which has 6 well-placed buttons on the left side; I don't want them to get in the way of the grip though, and it comes after precision and comfort for me.

What games do you play?
MOBA's, MMO, and trying to get more into FPS. I'vee been playing Overwatch for quite some time now, and I would like to get into Counter-Strike and Quake Live (and maybe Quake Champions in the future)

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes, I find that awful

Other relevant information:
Nothing special. I you have other suggestions apart from the list I posted, I'll welcome them with pleasure. But I think it will mainly go down between those four models. There is not much choice at my budget. I'm dreaming about a Zowie EC1A ou FK, but the price hurts my feelings.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyyMD*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? I can use anthing, but I mostly use palm.
> What's your sensitivity? Medium
> What's your maximum budget? $70 (I can probably spend a little more, but all my choices are listed below).
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play? Geometry Dash, CSGO, DOOM, Skyrim, KSP, American Truck Simulator, The Witcher 2 and 3, GTAV, Far Cry 4, Project CARS, Battlefield 1 and 4, and that's really it.
> Do you mind about prediction? I'd not really want it always on.
> Other relevant information: Mice are down below.
> Mice within my budget:
> 
> Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum
> Logitech G Pro (like I used to have)
> Logitech G403 Wired
> Corsair M65 Pro (general opinion of this is not too good right?)
> Corsair Scimitar Pro
> Steelseries Rival 300
> Razer Deathadder Elite (like what I'm having to use right now)
> Mice for a little bit more money:
> 
> Logitech G403 Wireless ($10 more)
> Steelseries Rival 700 (~$5 more)
> Razer Mamba TE (garbage I assume, about $4 more)
> Razer Naga V2 (ew laser, $10 more)


I have Rival 700 = very heavy + bad sensor + Hand Numbness + good for palm grip


----------



## AyyMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> I have Rival 700 = very heavy + bad sensor + Hand Numbness + good for palm grip


It's a brick, that's for sure.

Bad sensor? It seems fine to me.

My hand isn't numb from it yet.

I like this mouse a lot (yes, I bought it).


----------



## 176355

Looking to see if there are any mice out there that might fit these specifications, thanks in advance guys.

What's your grip style? Palm mostly, maybe a little fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Medium\High? Using a 40in 4k monitor and 47in 1080p TV so have it set around 7 ticks in Win 10 mouse settings. Logitech software set to around 16-1800.
What's your maximum budget? whatever if it's a beast
Do you want additional buttons? yes, love the 4 side buttons on the g700
What games do you play? Diablo3, phone emulation games (a lot of click then slide motion), witcher 3, lots of repetitive clicking quickly.
Do you mind about prediction? Fairly sure I don't like this.
Other relevant information: currently using the logitech g700 wireless(most of the time wired) but its too heavy, causing wrist strain and the software doesn't work well in win 10. I really like the overall style and shape of the mouse but want something much lighter if possible? No gloss, I like the textured surface of the g700. Would like to avoid Razer brand, I'd like another logitech if possible but open to other brands if you guys think they'd fit the specs better.


----------



## Evolute

1. What's your grip style? _Claw_
2. What's your sensitivity? _900-1400dpi_
3. What's your maximum budget? _$200_
4. Do you want additional buttons? _At least 2 but a third would be nice._
5. What games do you play? _Overwatch, Sins of a Solar Empire, Killing Floor, and anything Warhammer._
6. Do you mind about prediction? _Yes I would rather not have it._
7. Other relevant information: _Hands are 7 3/4" (inches) from bottom of palm to fingertip so something that would fit my hand would be nice._
8. I'm looking for something wired, that will last me up to 7 years, and be a little customizable (weight and being able to make it larger or smaller).


----------



## Evolute

*@brinzerdecalli* You may want to try the Logitech G13. Its not really a mouse but it does have a mini joystick on it that you could use to move around and 25 buttons you can customize. Its about $54 on amazon right now. Here's the link to it. https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-G13-Programmable-Gameboard-Display/dp/B001NEK2GE/ref=pd_sim_147_8?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001NEK2GE&pd_rd_r=4W2AYJG0XQ5R44GSTZ0P&pd_rd_w=KCnTQ&pd_rd_wg=EOE4z&psc=1&refRID=4W2AYJG0XQ5R44GSTZ0P


----------



## FlashFir

Spawn left click is dying, 3 years now. Warranty is two years. First mouse was a Razer Salmosa. Was great. Got a Razer Tron, horrible ergonomics but the button was great. Spawn love the grip, feels so comfortable but oh well time to ditch it for something more reliable and sturdy build quality.

What's your grip style? - Claw grip
What's your sensitivity? - ~7 inches/360. I used to do 3 inches. LOL
What's your maximum budget? - $65 flexible
Do you want additional buttons? - 2 if possible
What games do you play? Overwatch, Left 4 Dead 2, Dota 2 (not really anymore), StreetFighter (irrelevant),
Do you mind about prediction? No? I know what it is.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc

Probably low LOD. high is annoying. I run high sens


----------



## killeraxemannic

Can we get an update to the initial questions in this thread to add hand size? With lots of really good mice out right now that are 3360 based it's hard to recommend one to someone unless you know their hand size.


----------



## NightRaven13

Is there any good SS Sensei Chinese clone tho? I've seen the Motospeed V16,its kinda hard to find now.Lightweight and cheap if possible.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Can we get an update to the initial questions in this thread to add hand size? With lots of really good mice out right now that are 3360 based it's hard to recommend one to someone unless you know their hand size.


Seconded. Buuuut, who's to say that a certain hand size prefers a certain size mouse? I know for some people it isn't as simple. I imagine it wouldn't be exact; I haven't seen very many charts comparing hand size to different grips/mice shapes.

There is always that chart Zy (Rocket Jump Ninja) uses in his mouse review videos:


I actually don't get this chart, now that I think about it. I have 20cm long hands; Is the chart saying that I'd just slightly prefer a mouse suited for a claw or fingertip grip, or is it saying I'm someone who's more likely to use those grips for any mouse due to my hand size? Now I'm confused..


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightRaven13*
> 
> Is there any good SS Sensei Chinese clone tho? I've seen the Motospeed V16,its kinda hard to find now.Lightweight and cheap if possible.


Are you talking about the Nixeus Revel? Its a really good mouse if that's what you are looking for. I recommend the black one. I have the white one and it's smooth coating gets literally stuck to my hand after a few min of gaming. Not my favorite. The smooth touch black version seems like the way to go to me.


----------



## Juicin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Spawn left click is dying, 3 years now. Warranty is two years. First mouse was a Razer Salmosa. Was great. Got a Razer Tron, horrible ergonomics but the button was great. Spawn love the grip, feels so comfortable but oh well time to ditch it for something more reliable and sturdy build quality.
> 
> What's your grip style? - Claw grip
> What's your sensitivity? - ~7 inches/360. I used to do 3 inches. LOL
> What's your maximum budget? - $65 flexible
> Do you want additional buttons? - 2 if possible
> What games do you play? Overwatch, Left 4 Dead 2, Dota 2 (not really anymore), StreetFighter (irrelevant),
> Do you mind about prediction? No? I know what it is.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Probably low LOD. high is annoying. I run high sens


If you like the old razer plastic I always buy these

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE3FR6661&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Gaming+Mice-_-9SIA4RE3FR6661&gclid=Cj0KEQjwi7vIBRDpo9W8y7Ct6ZcBEiQA1CwV2Mb69U8Lv9kgZLA60HoF07WqXqXTtSfijlNRhWskO0gaAifN8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

They seem to be real, they even have the same flaw as the old ones with the scroll wheel. Seems to get off center or something, fixes itself with a bit of use IME. Only problem I've had was my fault cord got severed.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juicin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Spawn left click is dying, 3 years now. Warranty is two years. First mouse was a Razer Salmosa. Was great. Got a Razer Tron, horrible ergonomics but the button was great. Spawn love the grip, feels so comfortable but oh well time to ditch it for something more reliable and sturdy build quality.
> 
> What's your grip style? - Claw grip
> What's your sensitivity? - ~7 inches/360. I used to do 3 inches. LOL
> What's your maximum budget? - $65 flexible
> Do you want additional buttons? - 2 if possible
> What games do you play? Overwatch, Left 4 Dead 2, Dota 2 (not really anymore), StreetFighter (irrelevant),
> Do you mind about prediction? No? I know what it is.
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> Probably low LOD. high is annoying. I run high sens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you like the old razer plastic I always buy these
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE3FR6661&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Gaming+Mice-_-9SIA4RE3FR6661&gclid=Cj0KEQjwi7vIBRDpo9W8y7Ct6ZcBEiQA1CwV2Mb69U8Lv9kgZLA60HoF07WqXqXTtSfijlNRhWskO0gaAifN8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> They seem to be real, they even have the same flaw as the old ones with the scroll wheel. Seems to get off center or something, fixes itself with a bit of use IME. Only problem I've had was my fault cord got severed.
Click to expand...

$26? Not bad. And I remember hearing many good things about the death adder. Anything that would last longer than 3 years build quality wise though?


----------



## Juicin

One of mine has lasted longer, other than the scroll wheel design/QA I don't see any of the components as being low quality or the engineering


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> $26? Not bad. And I remember hearing many good things about the death adder. Anything that would last longer than 3 years build quality wise though?


I'd probably go with the Nixeus Revel above that if you are trying to stay cheap. It's close to the same price and it has the best sensor out right now. That is unless your hands are large or you are looking for an ergo shape.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> $26? Not bad. And I remember hearing many good things about the death adder. Anything that would last longer than 3 years build quality wise though?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd probably go with the Nixeus Revel above that if you are trying to stay cheap. It's close to the same price and it has the best sensor out right now. That is unless your hands are large or you are looking for an ergo shape.
Click to expand...

I don't mind spending more for quality.


----------



## Juicin

To me, mice are all about ergos and decent switches in 2017

If you want a high quality mouse I agree I would look elsewhere than the possibly fake deathadder.

But from an ergo perspective it's right up my alley, the fact you like razer mice tells me our tastes are at least similar.

Say what you want about them...They make mice with great form factor (although i hate the texture of their new plastic but that's a different discussion)


----------



## Notty

I´m here to give my feedback on the Logitech G403 (PMW3366) wich I got today. I´m doing it because I appreciated ppl opinions before I made the phurcase, so maybe someone can read this too.

This is the best mouse I ever used. Had already Zowie models with 3310, Razer Deathadder with the 3389 and some other laser mice. No mouse is snappy, smooth and precise as this one.

Mind you, the shape is VERY important. I tested G303 wich has the same sensor and I don´t like it as much as the G403, because is too small and aim tends to be shaky. You need consistency on your hand/grip to make the PMW3366 precision shine.

If anyone doubts about its potential for clawgrip and fingertip. don´t worry. My hands are small and I can fingertip this mouse without any problem! It´s very light and so confortable and the buttons are the best I seen aswell. It´s a pleasure to click on them.

I found it, the "perfect" mouse to me. If I have one complain about it, the feet causes some friction on cloth pads, but I read it goes away in 2 weeks.

All my records have been beaten both for Aimbooster . com and on MW3 "Stay sharp" mission where you shoot some targets while you run. This on the first day of usage, so things can only get better. My aim is really improved.

Kudos to Zowie mice and Deathadder, they are great products too, but this PMW3366 sensor if well used is just too good. So for someone reading this, don´t hesitate.


----------



## NoDestiny

[*] What's your grip style?
-Palm mostly (if mouse is large enough, but standard mice are most like fingergrip? almost a hybrid)
[*] What's your sensitivity?
-low-medium (but trying to learn higher, adjustability on the fly would be nice)
[*] What's your maximum budget?
-$100
[*] Do you want additional buttons?
-Not really... maybe I do? Ignorance here. Doubt I'd use em.
[*] What games do you play?
-FPS mostly
[*] Do you mind about prediction?
-Not sure, I'd assume I don't want it, but again, ignorance.
[*] Other relevant information:
-I STILL use my MouseMan dual optical today! It's old, but I love the feel AND I love the thumb button down low, not high up like mice today. The closer to the physical feel of this mouse, the better!

Just figured I'd throw out the idea of replacing my rather aged mouse and see what options come up. I've seriously considered buying another one and just trying to replace the guts, lol.


----------



## nebregg

*What's your grip style?*
Palm. Hand length = 18cm, hand width = 8cm.

*What's your sensitivity?*
Windows: 2000 DPI, In-Game: 400-800 in FPS games. Windows DPI in Command and Conquer Games and Rise of Nations.

*What's your maximum budget?
*€70,-. Already tryed (to hold for the grip, no played games or something). The Logitech G403 and G502 had a nice size for me imo. But how is the sensor in comparison with my Razer Deathadder Chroma? I saw also the Deathadder Elite, maybe thats an alternative.

*Do you want additional buttons?*
Back, Forward, DPI button. Not that much.

*What games do you play?*
CSGO, Battlefield, Call of Duty, H1Z1, PUBG, Ghost Recon Wildlands. Sometimes Rise of Nations or Command and Conquer games.

*Do you mind about prediction?*
Yeah. Like an accurate mouse in FPS games.

*Other relevant information:*
My razer deathadder chroma had no DPI button or something. It's annoying to bind it with my scrollwheel and back button, in games like Ghost Recon Wildlands i need to change my key bindings for it. So i want a mouse with button(s) to change my DPI. LOD and surface calibration would also be nice.


----------



## xImmortalShadow

*What's your grip style?* *Palm, but have small hands!*
*What's your sensitivity?* Around 4000.
*What's your maximum budget?* None, Rather not go over $100!
*Do you want additional buttons?* Yes. Two on the left click like the G602 and multiple buttons on the side, however optional.
*What games do you play?* FPS and Minecraft
*Do you mind about prediction?* Yes. I DO NOT WANT IT. I believe my deathadder has this issue, it changes sensitivity real time.
Ot*her relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc.* A nice fast clicking mouse like a deathadder 2013-4G. Also not to heavy (Can't specify, but if you have a g602, remove one battery and that's how heavy.) RGB Doesn't matter.


----------



## Juicin

Although I'm 99% sure no one puts mouse acceleration into their software, including razer

You can just uninstall synapse if you think ti's a problem

What you're feeling is probably built in mouse acceleration into the software you're using. Or there is some windows setting doing it.

Either way the problem will persist with a new mouse


----------



## Rayleyne

What's your grip style?
Mix of palm and fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
I don't know how to explain it but a mix of low and high, See below for games played.
What's your maximum budget?
dont have one
Do you want additional buttons?
Yes but they have to be Directinput style, None of this program it in a peice of software, I need it to be bindable ingame via "mouse 4, Mouse 5, Mouse 6" etc rather than a button being mapped to a key input.
What games do you play?
Overwatch, World of warcraft, Killing floor, I need something i can change on the fly for speed, When zooming in on a scope i need to be able to slow down mouse responsiveness so i don't consistantly over shoot.
Do you mind about prediction?
Prefer to be able to enable or disable it.
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
Hybrid wireless, I want to be able to charge it and use it at the same time and switch between wired and wireless on the fly if possible. I am currently using a logitech M235 and i find it to be quite nice for overall response but it is a tiny mouse in general.


----------



## Japi95

What's your grip style?
Palm/Claw

What's your sensitivity?
Csgo 1.2/overwatch 4 (800 dpi)

What's your maximum budget?
100€

Do you want additional buttons?
Yes left side 2 buttons

What games do you play?
Csgo/Overwatch (Mainly fps games)

Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want any prediction

Other relevant information:
Low lod, idk of the shape but i think i like mouses what i can palm grip,low weight like a logitech g403,wired, non-braided cord but i don't mind braided cord if i'ts flexible, glossy finish is better for sweaty hands? i get sweaty hands when i use my logitech g403







, light buttons,drivers/driverless what ever, i have owned zowie fk1,ec1 evo,ec-1a,steelseries rival 300,logitech g400, i currently have logitech g403 and g900 i like g403.


----------



## Zhuni

Was thinking the same


----------



## dwnfall

I get pain in the wrist area with certain mice. I love my G Pro put it causes me pain for some reason.

I love the FK2 size and shape but the clicks are a little stiff for me, anything similar?


----------



## Notty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> I get pain in the wrist area with certain mice. I love my G Pro put it causes me pain for some reason.
> 
> I love the FK2 size and shape but the clicks are a little stiff for me, anything similar?


The pain you mention is because you are contracting your hand/fingers to hold such thin mouse. I reccomend you to get a wider one llike the g403.


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Notty*
> 
> The pain you mention is because you are contracting your hand/fingers to hold such thin mouse. I reccomend you to get a wider one llike the g403.


I have g203, and i feel this too... do you think it's because it's too small?




It also has angle snapping, im thinking of going for fk2 even if it has worsen sensor, no intermediate dpis and buttons on the right...

Which mouse would you suggest instead guys?

Claw grip mostly
High senser (?) Im using high dpi, having a lot of wrist movement, i dont use all the pad size
I'd like to spend 60-70€ max but if there is better i don't care
They are ok unless they are on right side and they are getting in the way
FPS mostly, RTS and MMO
I do mind about prediction, i guess flawless sensor would be better for FPS?
I hate braided heavy cables, hate overweight mouse, ergo mouses seem to not fit me very well, i've used vanilla Rival and was kinda ok but with g403 couldn't even draw straight lines..., like rgb but i don't like the the heat, i dont like forced steps, i need a safe claw grip shape, excellent sensor, very good cable and lightweight.

Handsize 18,5x10


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> I have g203, and i feel this too...
> *It also has angle snapping*, im thinking of going for fk2 even if it has worsen sensor, no intermediate dpis and buttons on the right...


I have the G102/203 and it doesn't have angle snapping.


----------



## dwnfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> I have g203, and i feel this too... do you think it's because it's too small?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also has angle snapping, im thinking of going for fk2 even if it has worsen sensor, no intermediate dpis and buttons on the right...
> 
> Which mouse would you suggest instead guys?
> 
> Claw grip mostly
> High senser (?) Im using high dpi, having a lot of wrist movement, i dont use all the pad size
> I'd like to spend 60-70€ max but if there is better i don't care
> They are ok unless they are on right side and they are getting in the way
> FPS mostly, RTS and MMO
> I do mind about prediction, i guess flawless sensor would be better for FPS?
> I hate braided heavy cables, hate overweight mouse, ergo mouses seem to not fit me very well, i've used vanilla Rival and was kinda ok but with g403 couldn't even draw straight lines..., like rgb but i don't like the the heat, i dont like forced steps, i need a safe claw grip shape, excellent sensor, very good cable and lightweight.
> 
> Handsize 18,5x10


FK2 shape just fits my hand much better the clicks are pretty stiff though but its fine for FPS (annoying on LoL though)

The only pain I get with FK2 is between thumb and index finger and it is way worse on the G Pro for me!


----------



## dwnfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Notty*
> 
> The pain you mention is because you are contracting your hand/fingers to hold such thin mouse. I reccomend you to get a wider one llike the g403.


I have it and I like it except the back hump sits high off mouse pad maybe deathadder elite would be good? thank you


----------



## Notty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> I have it and I like it except the back hump sits high off mouse pad maybe deathadder elite would be good? thank you


Well, I sugested G403 as I thought you would like to keep the PMW3366 sensor. In that case if you don´t mind using anohter sensor you should try DA Elite for sure. Is funny because DA Elite is bigger than G403 on paper, but once you use it with your hand it doesn´t feel as big as the G403, due to the ergonomics.

Keep in mind DA is heavier tho, and if you like to use Left/Right click buttons in the middle/bottom of them (fingertip/claw grips) they are not as responsive on that area. They are very responsive on the edges tho. But yeah, can´t really beat Logitech buttons, but if you can´t adapt to their shapes is time to move on.

Idk if you tried G502, but that´s another one you should give a try. Yes on paper is long, big and heavy. On your hand it isn´t and is really confortable to grip. The weight can be a problem tho, depending on how you use it. If you watch some videos about G502 you will notice that the real length of the mouse is way shorter than the advertised 132mm. Is just that the Click Buttons are so long and they surprass the real mouse body. It is a 110mm real length and around 65mm wide (the thumb rest accounts for a total 75mm). So keep that in mind, people think G502 is the bigger Logitech mouse and it isn´t! It is smaller than G403 trust me. Only the weight is higher and that´s its main problem.(specially for really low sensivity players that lift the mouse a lot and need half a meter to do a 360).

EC2-A is also worth a mentioning, but the sensor is way worse (yes people here on the forums say 3310 sensor is not that different form 3366 but I warranty you it is), buttons have delay and are a bit stiff (specially the side ones). But mouse feet is Godlike and the shape is awesome for almost any hand imo.


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> I have the G102/203 and it doesn't have angle snapping.


Try to do straight lines in paint, then we talk again. There's a very little, almost unnoticeable
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> FK2 shape just fits my hand much better the clicks are pretty stiff though but its fine for FPS (annoying on LoL though)
> 
> The only pain I get with FK2 is between thumb and index finger and it is way worse on the G Pro for me!


Handsize? Do you think you get pain because of FK2?


----------



## Notty

Tbh FK2 imo is too thin (58mm) and only worth it if you like to have your fingers resting on the mousepad instead of the mouse sides. I already find the G Pro thin, FK2 is even more.. Is hard to stabilize such mice when aiming and I have small to medium hands (only 17,5cm in lenght)

Tend to overshoot a lot with such shapes.

I really advise you to try G502 if you didn´t already. People think it is too big, when in fact it is smaller than G403. G502 has a similar body to the old G9x with longer buttons that surprass the mouse feet level and thumb rest on it.

On the left is the G502, on the right is the g9x. On the second image you can see how long the buttons are, making it longer on official measurements, but on your mousepad it is roughly 105mm/111mm wich is consdiered short! Shorter than moste mice actually.


----------



## dwnfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> Try to do straight lines in paint, then we talk again. There's a very little, almost unnoticeable
> Handsize? Do you think you get pain because of FK2?


I get wrist cold hands from the G Pro and I get slight thumb web pain from the FK2. Overall FK2 is more comfortable for me.

The DA elite seems fine but Synapse is garbage


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> FK2 shape just fits my hand much better the clicks are pretty stiff though but its fine for FPS (annoying on LoL though)
> 
> The only pain I get with FK2 is between thumb and index finger and it is way worse on the G Pro for me!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Notty*
> 
> Tbh FK2 imo is too thin (58mm) and only worth it if you like to have your fingers resting on the mousepad instead of the mouse sides. I already find the G Pro thin, FK2 is even more.. Is hard to stabilize such mice when aiming and I have small to medium hands (only 17,5cm in lenght)
> 
> Tend to overshoot a lot with such shapes.
> 
> I really advise you to try G502 if you didn´t already. People think it is too big, when in fact it is smaller than G403. G502 has a similar body to the old G9x with longer buttons that surprass the mouse feet level and thumb rest on it.
> 
> On the left is the G502, on the right is the g9x. On the second image you can see how long the buttons are, making it longer on official measurements, but on your mousepad it is roughly 105mm/111mm wich is consdiered short! Shorter than moste mice actually.


121grams... no thanks. Need clawgrip lightweight mouse. FK2 or Nixeus Revel/DM1?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> Try to do straight lines in paint, then we talk again. *There's a very little, almost unnoticeable*


Then what's the problem? I'd call that being able to draw straight lines instead of the mouse having angle snapping.


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> Then what's the problem? I'd call that being able to draw straight lines instead of the mouse having angle snapping.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Mine looks similar, but I don't think that's an indication of angle snapping. Here's a more comprehensive comparison (not mine) with the G Pro:


They look the same to me.
FWIW, a Logitech rep confirmed no angle snapping: https://community.logitech.com/s/feed/0D53100006VR3MzCAL


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> Mine looks similar, but I don't think that's an indication of angle snapping. Here's a more comprehensive comparison (not mine) with the G Pro:
> 
> 
> They look the same to me.
> FWIW, a Logitech rep confirmed no angle snapping: https://community.logitech.com/s/feed/0D53100006VR3MzCAL


Doesn't matter as i tried and seemed like it actually has, ppl say its not actually angle snappin but it bothers me, 3366 curves are better

Btw 19x10 cm hands claw grip

FK2 or FK1? 3360 Mouse? Logitech need to improve their shapes, tried g403 also and didn't like it, plus it's heavy.


----------



## Notty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> 121grams... no thanks. Need clawgrip lightweight mouse. FK2 or Nixeus Revel/DM1?


If you are a low sensivity player and lift the mouse a lot, yeah the 121g will defo bother you. Some guys take the metal scroll wheel down to lose 11g, but that´s extreme. If you are high sensivity player, 121g can help you more than a light mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> Doesn't matter as i tried and seemed like it actually has, ppl say its not actually angle snappin but it bothers me, 3366 curves are better
> 
> Btw 19x10 cm hands claw grip
> 
> FK2 or FK1? 3360 Mouse? Logitech need to improve their shapes, tried g403 also and didn't like it, plus it's heavy.


With that hand size I would never get a FK2. Did you try Razer DA Elite? I guess you would find it heavy if you found the g403 heavy, wich is only 88g.... I don´t agree with G403 being heavy. I have 17,5x9 hands (small) and I have no problems with the g403 weight. What starts to bother me is the left sided hump wich is making me using the mouse in a diagonal way, wich is awful for left to right movements.

Got a G Pro today for testing, and can say this thing is really bad. My hands are small and I still have hard time to grip this mouse. So small, makes my hand hurt and my aim is all over the place as you can´t stabilize. I guess this is why Logitech got its shell and hardware and put it on the G203 using a cheap sensor (for them the Mercury is really cheap). They are trying to basically sell G Pros, because I guess it wasn´t a sucessful product (if you look on amazon EU there isn´t a single one available for you to buy right now. need to wait some days). This G Pro shape is a big fail imo.


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Notty*
> 
> If you are a low sensivity player and lift the mouse a lot, yeah the 121g will defo bother you. Some guys take the metal scroll wheel down to lose 11g, but that´s extreme. If you are high sensivity player, 121g can help you more than a light mouse.
> With that hand size I would never get a FK2. Did you try Razer DA Elite? I guess you would find it heavy if you found the g403 heavy, wich is only 88g.... I don´t agree with G403 being heavy. I have 17,5x9 hands (small) and I have no problems with the g403 weight. What starts to bother me is the left sided hump wich is making me using the mouse in a diagonal way, wich is awful for left to right movements.
> 
> Got a G Pro today for testing, and can say this thing is really bad. My hands are small and I still have hard time to grip this mouse. So small, makes my hand hurt and my aim is all over the place as you can´t stabilize. I guess this is why Logitech got its shell and hardware and put it on the G203 using a cheap sensor (for them the Mercury is really cheap). They are trying to basically sell G Pros, because I guess it wasn´t a sucessful product (if you look on amazon EU there isn´t a single one available for you to buy right now. need to wait some days). This G Pro shape is a big fail imo.


I play 1600 dpi, im high senser but i do lift the mouse a lot. G403 is 90g with the cover, its not about being heavy, its about looking for lightweightnesses. I will never go razer products, their build quality sucks and whatever razer da is too big, i've tried it 1 day and sent it back because it had tracking issues... I don't think both fit well the claw grip.


----------



## tokstollen

Hey!

Hey have been using Rival for years now.
But i feel i need a change.
I have tried many other mouses.
Ec1 White edition.
Ec-1
Ec-2
FK1+
FK1
FK2
Logitech g303
logitech g403
ZA13

But i feel the rival fits me the best. Its a little to big and in weigh abit much.
But i still like it. Other mouses make my hands cramp.
I hold the mouse like Fingertip/Claw
I always have one finger on mouse3/scrollwheel.
Because i always bind stuff to it.
So i hold wierd grip when playing.

My hands are not that big the are medium sized(18.5cm)

I also use mouse4 alot, i really like the big mouse4 on the rival.

Anyone have a suggestion for a mouse close the rival maybe a bit smaller?
Or should i try the Xtrfy one thats almost the exakt same.
Or just stick with the Rival that i have?
I heard that the new version(Rival 300) Have abit worse sensor that the old one.
Or people feel like its worse.


----------



## SunnyPRO

Hello to everyone, can't pick better mouse for replace CM Alcor:
CONS: the worst things are spin-outs on fast moves, and quality.
PROS: shape, maybe something specific to sensor/implementation, but on not very fast moves seems to be very precise, doesn't track small unneeded moves.
Have also:

Logitech g403 - shape is like a rock, in rest its is flawless
Logitech g303 - too small to grab it normally
Zowie EC2-A (new one) - worst scroll, click are heavy, weight, on moves its not the same like alcor
Hands are ~16-17cm

What's your grip style? *Claw/palm grip*
What games do you play? *DOTA 2, CSGO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Maybe to try something like Sensei*


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SunnyPRO*
> 
> Hello to everyone, can't pick better mouse for replace CM Alcor:
> CONS: the worst things are spin-outs on fast moves, and quality.
> PROS: shape, maybe something specific to sensor/implementation, but on not very fast moves seems to be very precise, doesn't track small unneeded moves.
> Have also:
> 
> Logitech g403 - shape is like a rock, in rest its is flawless
> Logitech g303 - too small to grab it normally
> Zowie EC2-A (new one) - worst scroll, click are heavy, weight, on moves its not the same like alcor
> Hands are ~16-17cm
> 
> What's your grip style? *Claw/palm grip*
> What games do you play? *DOTA 2, CSGO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Maybe to try something like Sensei*


Hey, i use your same grip and i've tried G102 which was cramping by wrist due to my hand being 19x10, if yours isn't much big and wide and you like logitech mice you could give G102 a "shot". The mouse it's amazing, you could be fine with that hand size and it has a very good price plus the best cable in logitech line. Be careful of stock feet as many ppl say they suck, i had a model which was scratching my mousepad but if the shape would have been good for me i would have kept it and replaced feets.

I've ordered FK2 atm and im going to try DM1 Pro S, i suggest you to check those mice too, zowie is famous for safe shapes,build quality, nice feets and best stock cable on the market but it has 3310 sensor and very stiff clicks, dm 1 pro s is basically sensei shape with 3360 sensor and braided cable (sigh... but this one looks flexible, watch Zy aka rocketjumpninja videos)


----------



## Notty

I have 17,5 x 9 hands (kinda on the small side) and I couldn´t grip g203/G Pro. Too small to stabilize aim imo


----------



## Nawafwabs

Guys I want mouse small

L x W x H = 3.9inch x 1.77 inch x 1.10inch

last mouse I buy g403 feel like rock in my hand


----------



## Notty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> Guys I want mouse small
> 
> L x W x H = 3.9inch x 1.77 inch x 1.10inch
> 
> last mouse I buy g403 feel like rock in my hand


G403 is that mouse that feels the biggest on your hands. If you want small mice:

- Zowie FK2
- Zowie ZA12
- Razer Lancehead (risky shape)
- Roccat Pure Owl-Eye

Roccat and Razer sensors are better, but can´t really beat the diveristy of shapes from Zowie.


----------



## sephiroth_vg

Hey Lads







Starting to have big double click problems with my Razer Ouroboros







Thinking of getting a new mouse and Ive heard really good reviews about the Logitech G502. Though I should ask here cuz you are wayyy more into mice than I am







These are my stats.

What's your grip style? Finger \ Claw Grip (for Lachesis)
What's your sensitivity? 4000 for Normal windows but I adjust it to 800 for CS: GO
What's your maximum budget? 100
Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons would be nice








What games do you play? CS:Go, Mechwarrior Online, DotA 2
Do you mind about prediction? Yes
Other relevant information: I used to use Razer Lachesis and ABSOLUTELY LOVED THAT SHAPE because it was amazing for my style of grip. I moved onto a Razer Mamba and then a Razer Ouroboros which were both disappointing in terms of build quality







So I am thinking about Logitech


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sephiroth_vg*
> 
> Hey Lads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to have big double click problems with my Razer Ouroboros
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking of getting a new mouse and Ive heard really good reviews about the Logitech G502. Though I should ask here cuz you are wayyy more into mice than I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are my stats.
> 
> What's your grip style? Finger \ Claw Grip (for Lachesis)
> What's your sensitivity? 4000 for Normal windows but I adjust it to 800 for CS: GO
> What's your maximum budget? 100
> Do you want additional buttons? Side buttons would be nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What games do you play? CS:Go, Mechwarrior Online, DotA 2
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes
> Other relevant information: I used to use Razer Lachesis and ABSOLUTELY LOVED THAT SHAPE because it was amazing for my style of grip. I moved onto a Razer Mamba and then a Razer Ouroboros which were both disappointing in terms of build quality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I am thinking about Logitech


I think you have my same grip style (but i claw grip mostly) actually i'm doing very good with FK2 which is fingertip/claw mouse, if you fingertip mostly and have small hands you probably want to give a shot to g102 which has better sensor


----------



## sonic2911

what is the best upgrade from OG rival? Rival 700?


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonic2911*
> 
> what is the best upgrade from OG rival? Rival 700?


I have rival 700

its good shape but I think I will go with g403


----------



## AyyMD

I love my Rival 700, it's a great mouse. I need to finish my review on it though.


----------



## speedyvarmint

Hello.

I need help finding a mouse I can settle down with comfortably.

*Games*: I play FPS games with precise mouse movement required.

*Hand Size*: 21cm across, 11cm wide.

*Grip*: I'm a claw gripper. Specifically, I use a 1-3-1 grip. Middle and ring finger rest on RMB.

*Weight*: I can use both light to heavy mice. Light preferred.

*Sensitivity*: Generally a very low sensitivity player.

*Shape*: I'll use an ambidextrous or ergonomic shape and much prefer flat or concave sides. I hate comfort grooves.

*Extra*: I've used every Zowie, the DeathAdder, Abyssus, Lancehead, Rival, Sensei, every new Logitech, Kone Pure, Kone EMP, NAOS, Pulsefire FPS, and every Finalmouse.

I think my perfect mouse would be a slightly bigger Kone Pure with flat sides or no thumb grooves. Chasin' the unicorn mouse.


----------



## lebel22

1. What's your grip style?

Fingergrip/claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?

800 in game. 2000 everything else.

3. What's your maximum budget?

None, unless the wife finds out.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

I quite like my G900 left/right click on the scroll wheel for quick primary/seconday weapon changes.

5. What games do you play?

CSGO with the occasional breaks.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

don't use it.

7. Other relevant information:

small, light and a scroll wheel that has a premium feel


----------



## NEXOFX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lebel22*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> Fingergrip/claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> 800 in game. 2000 everything else.
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> 
> None, unless the wife finds out.
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> I quite like my G900 left/right click on the scroll wheel for quick primary/seconday weapon changes.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> CSGO with the occasional breaks.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> don't use it.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> 
> small, light and a scroll wheel that has a premium feel


Take a look at the Roccat Kone Pure 2017 or Zowie FK2 (the scrollwheel isn't that good), both mice seem to be a good choice for you.


----------



## lebel22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NEXOFX*
> 
> Take a look at the Roccat Kone Pure 2017 or Zowie FK2 (the scrollwheel isn't that good), both mice seem to be a good choice for you.


I will never stop buying mice...

my current list;
Ninox; Venator (currently main use)
Razer; Chroma RGB & Elite
Zowie; FK2
Mionix; Castor
Corsair; Harpoon & M65 Pro
Logitech; G303, GPro, G502, G900 & MX Master
Arriving tomorrow: Cooler Master MasterMouse S


----------



## joeybuddy96

I'm looking for a mouse that doesn't have a soft rubber or silicone piece surrounding the scroll wheel. My DA 2013's scroll wheel eventually was stretched out of shape and expanded to a point that it was scraping against the casing. It seems like most of the ergonomic mice from Razer, benQ, SS, Logitech, and Tt have rubber or soft silicone scroll wheel cushions. I want a solid piece of plastic or a material that won't stretch out over time.


----------



## Melan

G502 and G900 have metal wheel.


----------



## MattVonX

Hi roccat users,

I have a question about which mouse you would recommend to me as i never used a Roccat product, I play CS:GO (supreme/global..depends on the week), PUGB, Dota 2.

Hand size is 7.1 inch (18cm)

Now for the longest time i used Intellimouse explorer which has been the best mouse i used, but the past year i not been able to find one that doesn't get the mouse wheel issue, and as there not made anymore i might as well move on.

I got Deathadder chroma (its shape seems to cause me abit of RSI in my finger) and a tad heavy but its usable.

Logitech G900 (not bad but too thin, causes abit of hand RSI)

Logitech 403G wireless (abit small, which is a shame as its abit of improvement on the G900, but slightly too small)

Logitech 502g (its a brick, no i can't be arsed to spend my time away from work to mess with it to make lighter)

so from that, which of the roccat Owl-Eye sensor based mice do you recommend, from the pictures i think the shape will suit me.

All the best


----------



## primecl

I'm a low-sensitivity player. I'm looking for a mouse that has a similar grip and weight to the G9X **with all covers removed**. The naked G9X.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattVonX*
> 
> Hi roccat users,
> 
> I have a question about which mouse you would recommend to me as i never used a Roccat product, I play CS:GO (supreme/global..depends on the week), PUGB, Dota 2.
> 
> Hand size is 7.1 inch (18cm)
> 
> Now for the longest time i used Intellimouse explorer which has been the best mouse i used, but the past year i not been able to find one that doesn't get the mouse wheel issue, and as there not made anymore i might as well move on.
> 
> I got Deathadder chroma (its shape seems to cause me abit of RSI in my finger) and a tad heavy but its usable.
> 
> Logitech G900 (not bad but too thin, causes abit of hand RSI)
> 
> Logitech 403G wireless (abit small, which is a shame as its abit of improvement on the G900, but slightly too small)
> 
> Logitech 502g (its a brick, no i can't be arsed to spend my time away from work to mess with it to make lighter)
> 
> so from that, which of the roccat Owl-Eye sensor based mice do you recommend, from the pictures i think the shape will suit me.
> 
> All the best


Kone EMP is probably the only one that makes sense... it's almost as heavy as G502 though, but better weight distribution because it's bigger (I think).


----------



## ErrorFile

My Func MS3-R2's scroll seems to create double-clicks quite often and it's making me crazy, so I ordered a Mionix NAOS 7000 for the "similar" design and quite positive reviews. If it's not any good for my hand, which mouse to order next? This Func has been easily the most comfortable (perfect shape, size, weight, not too bling-bling) mouse I've ever used and even though I have small hands, I'm not sure that a smaller mouse would be a good thing. Design and size/weight as similar as it can get to the Func, I hated my MX518's and G400s's shape as they made me drag my fingers across the mouse pad.


----------



## tribunal4555

Hi all,

I have 20cm x 10cm hands. Have always used small mice and am looking to expand to something different! Used the G100S for a very long time, finally replaced with a G Pro ~4months ago. The grip isn't uncomfortable per se and I have no issues with aches or pains, but sometimes I feel as though I am lacking control of the mouse because of how it doesn't fill my hand, especially lengthwise. Not sure if I want replacement to be ambi or ergo, would love suggestions from anyone, especially with similar experience.

Gave a friend's G403 a try, seems like a good mouse- a bit too small to palm fully, but I can hybrid grip it with no issues. I was looking at some other options, like EC-1A, ZA11, Deathadder, Nixeus Revel, but I am concerned with build quality? Not too concerned with 3310 sensor as I aimed fine with a G100S, but I have gotten used to using side buttons a lot after getting G Pro (one as push to talk, the other as in game command), and I heard the EC series side buttons especially are bad. Need the mouse to last for 18months or more at least. My hands get a bit damp when gaming, not too much sweat, but some. Any suggestions on what I should try would be much appreciated!


What's your grip style? Hybrid claw/fingertip (but that's a byproduct of mouse size)
What's your sensitivity? ~40cm/360
What's your maximum budget? ~$70, can stretch if there's a better option
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons is sufficient
What games do you play? Overwatch, CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? prefer none


----------



## Harahyuna

Hi everyone,

Looking to find a reliable mouse to replace my Kensington Pro Fit Mid-Size Mouse with middle click not registering after 2 years. I love the shape of this mouse and hope to get something similar in shape and ergonomics but more reliable. Thanks.

What's your grip style? Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 1000-1500dpi
What's your maximum budget? $60
Do you want additional buttons? 2 side buttons on the left
What games do you play? Overwatch, Arma, L4D2, Battlefield
Do you mind about prediction? No, don't really care about sensor either as long as shape is good.
Other relevant information: No glossy finish, modding required, huge hump and heavy weight. My current mice is 72g without cables but I may go up to 90g if it does not feel much heavier.

Mouse I tried and did not like:
Logitech G400 - Too large for fingertip grip with my handsize of roughly 18cm x 9cm.
Logitech G100 - Shape looks similar to Dell MS11 office mouse which I dislike.
Razer Orochi - Sharp edge at the sides of the mouse which will touch my ring finger and weird feeling hump at back.

Some Mice that I'm considering but not sure which to get first:
Roccat Kone Pure Owl Eye - This seems ergonomic like the Kensington but unsure if the shape on the left thumb and right area might force a certain grip. Height seems to be highest at 39mm which might affect fingertip grip. Weight is about 4g lighter than the other 2 at 86g.
Steelseries Rival 100 - Length is longest at 120mm and seems to be largest of the 3. No idea if it will feel much larger than the Kensington at 100mm.
CM Storm Mastermouse S - Hump is near the back which might be uncomfortable for fingertip grip like the ZA13. Height seems to be shortest of the 3 though.


----------



## ZeBodscha

Hey,

had a long long history of *MX 5XX/G400* before switching to the original Zowie *FK1*, cause I wanted to try something ambidextrous again like my very first mouse (an MS Intelli). FK1 felt a little narrow in the mid section, the mouse buttons & especially the mouse wheel weren't exactly mine and I hated the mouse button delay. But I liked the raw design and overall sensor performance. So after a while I dropped my ambidextrous plans again and switched to the *EC2-A* when it came out, cause I wanted to give Zowie another try. Ofc the EC2-A still has the poor buttons/wheel (imo), but other than that it was alright. After some time I realized that it introduced another issue though:

Due to the shape on the bottom inside of the body (thumb position), which is curved *inwards* and due to the fact that I tend to apply a lot of force (specifically the thumb) to the mouse from time to time, I ended up lifting the mouse on the inside from the mousepad unintentionally. I generally like to have my thumb sitting between the bottom of the mouse and on top of the mousepad for better control. I don't know if I only apply more force when my hands start to get sweatier or if this generally happens.

My hands are 20cm in length and generally sweaty and my grip style is something between palm and claw. I think I generally prefer something that isn't too flat and narrow with a good arch in the mid and bump in the back. Wouldn't say no to weight below 90g either. Absolutely didn't like the Zowie ZA series.

So I tried a few mice that were available at my local hardware stores (they mainly got absolute mainstream stuff), and ended up liking the *G403* shape the best. Now that I have it, the buttons, the shape, the mouse wheel, thumb button position & size, the clicks: everything feels extremely nice and the thumb-pickup issue I had with the EC2-A is gone, due to the bottom of the mouse being curved slightly *outwards* towards the bottom instead (yet still not perfect because of the little 2-3mm "pickup assistance gap" it has on the bottom). So the G403 is generally a really good improvement over the EC2-A, and even the shape fits my hands a little nicer. But I have deal-breaking tracking issues with its 3366 on my QCK heavy+:

Seems like I just can't get used to extremely low LODs cause I don't always pick up my mice exactly straight (occasionally slightly higher on the thumb side). So it's quite a similar issue to the one I had with the EC2-A. But this time it isn't the shape, but the sensor (or my way of holding and lifting the mouse).

Due to my slightly tilted pickup angle I apply to all mice on a random basis and the extremely low LOD of the G403, I often end up with the occasional missed mouse movement. I'm a low sens player, which is why I tend to pick up my mouse quite a lot. Ofc the LOD was not really adjustable after installing the Logitech Software, and trying different surface settings, would just leave me with the sensor not registering any movement at all sometimes, which is why I assumed the standard setting already was the best one available for the sensor and my pad.

Does anyone have suggestions for similar mice like the G403? Cause I feel like it's a great mouse for me, but don't feel like I could ever adjust my lifting/pick up behavior in order to make use of the G403. I'm not a robot that can lift his mouse perfectly straight 100 out of 100 times.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeBodscha*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> had a long long history of *MX 5XX/G400* before switching to the original Zowie *FK1*, cause I wanted to try something ambidextrous again like my very first mouse (an MS Intelli). FK1 felt a little narrow in the mid section, the mouse buttons & especially the mouse wheel weren't exactly mine and I hated the mouse button delay. But I liked the raw design and overall sensor performance. So after a while I dropped my ambidextrous plans again and switched to the *EC2-A* when it came out, cause I wanted to give Zowie another try. Ofc the EC2-A still has the poor buttons/wheel (imo), but other than that it was alright. After some time I realized that it introduced another issue though:
> 
> Due to the shape on the bottom inside of the body (thumb position), which is curved *inwards* and due to the fact that I tend to apply a lot of force (specifically the thumb) to the mouse from time to time, I ended up lifting the mouse on the inside from the mousepad unintentionally. I generally like to have my thumb sitting between the bottom of the mouse and on top of the mousepad for better control. I don't know if I only apply more force when my hands start to get sweatier or if this generally happens.
> 
> My hands are 20cm in length and generally sweaty and my grip style is something between palm and claw. I think I generally prefer something that isn't too flat and narrow with a good arch in the mid and bump in the back. Wouldn't say no to weight below 90g either. Absolutely didn't like the Zowie ZA series.
> 
> So I tried a few mice that were available at my local hardware stores (they mainly got absolute mainstream stuff), and ended up liking the *G403* shape the best. Now that I have it, the buttons, the shape, the mouse wheel, thumb button position & size, the clicks: everything feels extremely nice and the thumb-pickup issue I had with the EC2-A is gone, due to the bottom of the mouse being curved slightly *outwards* towards the bottom instead (yet still not perfect because of the little 2-3mm "pickup assistance gap" it has on the bottom). So the G403 is generally a really good improvement over the EC2-A, and even the shape fits my hands a little nicer. But I have deal-breaking tracking issues with its 3366 on my QCK heavy+:
> 
> Seems like I just can't get used to extremely low LODs cause I don't always pick up my mice exactly straight (occasionally slightly higher on the thumb side). So it's quite a similar issue to the one I had with the EC2-A. But this time it isn't the shape, but the sensor (or my way of holding and lifting the mouse).
> 
> Due to my slightly tilted pickup angle I apply to all mice on a random basis and the extremely low LOD of the G403, I often end up with the occasional missed mouse movement. I'm a low sens player, which is why I tend to pick up my mouse quite a lot. Ofc the LOD was not really adjustable after installing the Logitech Software, and trying different surface settings, would just leave me with the sensor not registering any movement at all sometimes, which is why I assumed the standard setting already was the best one available for the sensor and my pad.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions for similar mice like the G403? Cause I feel like it's a great mouse for me, but don't feel like I could ever adjust my lifting/pick up behavior in order to make use of the G403. I'm not a robot that can lift his mouse perfectly straight 100 out of 100 times.


I wonder if you can put a few layers of tape on the mouse feet to increase the distance from sensor to pad, and then try surface tuning to see if it can raise the LOD.

and then of course remove the tape after.


----------



## ZeBodscha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I wonder if you can put a few layers of tape on the mouse feet to increase the distance from sensor to pad, and then try surface tuning to see if it can raise the LOD.
> 
> and then of course remove the tape after.


I could try that or use DVDs in combination with tape. Might give it a try before just returning it.

After some more playtesting though (have now tested the mouse for about a week and run into tracking issues again), I just feel like going for something else. There have to be options with similar performing sensors and shapes that go all the way down onto the pad. I know these little 1-3mm angles/gaps/rounded bottoms on most mice are intended to achieve an easier pickup behavior, but my firm grip, grip style, playstyle and sensitivity (~45/360) just seem to be incompatible with it. I just have massive issues to put down the mouse exactly plane onto the mousepad when lifting and moving it around a lot, while the entire bottom of the mouse's sides isn't plane and flat like a brick.

I think I won't be able to get rid of this behavior, cause I might have gotten used to it over all the years. I mean even after using the EC2-A for about 2 years, it still feels kinda awkward somehow, when I pay attention to it.

The G403 seems to be really great in every other aspect, but the tracking/sensor and the shape on the bottom (of which I initially thought it would be an improvement because of the inwards angle at the thumb position) kinda kills the positives for me. So I guess I'm just looking for something close performance- (and ideally button-) wise. Just something with sides that don't have these pickup-assists and go all the way down onto the pad. As I mentioned, my thumb is positioned extremely low on the inside of the mouse, so my left side of my right thumb always slides across the mousepad, which causes the whole lifting drama, whenever force is applied. I think I didn't have this issue with the FK1 and I wouldn't even mind going ambidextrous again, but I think remembering my hand cramping up every once in a while, because of the narrow mid-section of the FK1. IIRC the Steelseries Sensei had a nice shape, but afaik the sensor was kinda meh regarding acceleration or malfunction speed or something?!

DPI: 400/800(/1600)
Sens: 40-45cm/360°
Price: ~70€ max.
Extras: Two thumb buttons (right handed) necessary
Genre: Mostly FPS
Prediction and Accel preferably non-existant
Hand size: ~20cm (@7,87")
Grip: Claw/Palm
Other: sweaty hands, so no glossy stuff. Don't care too much about weight, since I apply a lot of force anyways.

Any tips or solutions from people who had similar issues?

*UPDATE: The tracking issues are also happening with normal, flat swipes, which makes me believe the issue is sensor related. Cleaned the lense, pad is clean, but still get complete loss of mouse movement occasionally for a few milliseconds







*


----------



## DoomedMouseUser

_*What's your grip style?*_ I use a 1-3-1 claw grip primarily but lately I've been trying to use 1-2-2. *Hand is 21.5x11cm.
*
_*What's your sensitivity?*_ Low to very low - I use 400 DPI, in Source games my sensitivity is 0.9 or below.

_*What's your maximum budget?*_ Up to $100.

_*Do you want additional buttons?*_ For my desperate situation, I'd say it's not required, but at least 2 side buttons preferred.

_*What games do you play?*_ I play Quake and Overwatch.

_*Do you mind about prediction?*_ Yes. No snapping, acceleration, or any of that please.

Other relevant information:

My big hand has made finding a mouse I can use a hellish ordeal. Through 90% of the shapes on the market and through all the wasted cash and time, I've found that I need these requirements to be met:

_1._ *It must be ambidextrous.* I find I have *no* control with any ergo mice. They suck really, really bad. They slip out of my hand and have the weirdest most unsafe shapes around.

_2._ *It must have flat sides.* Not literally flat maybe, but subtle. I tend to like subtle ) ( shapes.

_3._ *It must have a width between 66 - 70-ish millimeters. (6.6 to ~7cm).* Anything below this cramps my hand and makes the mouse unusable. I know I've just killed most mice on the market with this demand, but I really can't go smaller.

_4._ *Must have an optical sensor.*


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomedMouseUser*
> 
> _*What's your grip style?*_ I use a 1-3-1 claw grip primarily but lately I've been trying to use 1-2-2. *Hand is 21.5x11cm.
> *
> _*What's your sensitivity?*_ Low to very low - I use 400 DPI, in Source games my sensitivity is 0.9 or below.
> 
> _*What's your maximum budget?*_ Up to $100.
> 
> _*Do you want additional buttons?*_ For my desperate situation, I'd say it's not required, but at least 2 side buttons preferred.
> 
> _*What games do you play?*_ I play Quake and Overwatch.
> 
> _*Do you mind about prediction?*_ Yes. No snapping, acceleration, or any of that please.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> My big hand has made finding a mouse I can use a hellish ordeal. Through 90% of the shapes on the market and through all the wasted cash and time, I've found that I need these requirements to be met:
> 
> _1._ *It must be ambidextrous.* I find I have *no* control with any ergo mice. They suck really, really bad. They slip out of my hand and have the weirdest most unsafe shapes around.
> 
> _2._ *It must have flat sides.* Not literally flat maybe, but subtle. I tend to like subtle ) ( shapes.
> 
> _3._ *It must have a width between 66 - 70-ish millimeters. (6.6 to ~7cm).* Anything below this cramps my hand and makes the mouse unusable. I know I've just killed most mice on the market with this demand, but I really can't go smaller.
> 
> _4._ *Must have an optical sensor.*


If you can still find the Logitech G900 on sale near you, that would fit the description. I know it's still $75 at a Best Buy near me.

There's also the Razer Lancehead Tournament Edition, but that's a bit wide at 71mm.

I don't know what you mean by ruling out most mice on the market, though. Most of the ones I looked at just now were in that range. However, the width provided by the manufacturers can be deceiving; they aren't always measuring the width of the mouse _from where you would grip it_, which can very slightly from person to person. It makes it easier to determine if you already know your grip style, though. The Logitech G502 for example has a thumbrest that makes the mouse 75mm wide, but where you actually grip the mouse is probably around 65mm.


----------



## Avalar

If you aren't particular to any sensor specifically, or weight, there's lots of options. Asus has a few ambi mice.


----------



## DoomedMouseUser

Thanks for your response. I've tried both the Lancehead and G900 but returned both because of shape issues - although no surprise the Razer was the worst offender in terms of shape.

I have some new options though, the Ninox Venator and a re-try of the ScreaM One.

The Venator has a decent width of 62mm and looks similar to the ZA which is one of the better shapes I've tried. Probably the next one I'll try. Concerned about QC though.

The ScreaM One did not work in 1-3-1 and has a insufficient width of 59mm but checks out shape-wise in almost every single way. If I have nothing left I'll try to use it this time in 1-2-2 grip. Probably not worth my time or money though.

Between all of this time, money and RSI though - presently, I still haven't found at least one mouse that I can just sit down with, forget, and game comfortably with. Anybody else still chasing the unicorn mouse?


----------



## DoomedMouseUser

< accidental post >


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoomedMouseUser*
> 
> The ScreaM One did not work in 1-3-1 and has a insufficient width of 59mm but checks out shape-wise in almost every single way. If I have nothing left I'll try to use it this time in 1-2-2 grip. Probably not worth my time or money though.


In that case, you could easily apply some of your favorite tape to the sides of the mouse and boom, done!


----------



## Moys

Hello, I've been using a Logitech G302 mouse for quite a while, being a big LoL player, it really worked well for me. Since I didn't use a mouse pad, the underpads of the mouse did get worn off at some point, also, I've damaged the mouse clicks by trying to clean it with a Qtip, so they aren't working well since then, anyway I need a new one.

1. What's your grip style?

I guess it's claw ? I hold the butt of my mouse between my fingers and palm, using the tip of my fingers to click.

2. What's your sensitivity?

The third one on the g302, there are 4 to choose from, It's a little fast but not that much. My mouse setting are all set to the middle in the mouse option panel.

3. What's your maximum budget?

Up to 50€, I live in France.

4. Do you want additional buttons?

2 extra on the left, I'm really used to them and growed to like them. Also I'd like to try that sniper button.

5. What games do you play?

As I said i'm a big League of Legends player, I also play some "tactical" ( not really fast-paced ) FPS games a lot ( Insurgency, Heroes and Generals ) and some mmos.

6. Do you mind about prediction?

I don't really understand what is it about. Never had it before, I think it's not for me.

7. Other relevant information:

No ambidextrious ( main thing that bothered me on the G302 ).

I'd like a braided cable preferably.

I don't care about colored lightening and such.

Also don't care about macros and mouse buttons configurations.

I want a stable a precise mouse.

I'm actually about to either get the Logitech G402 or the Corsair M65 ( not pro ), they both are priced 40/45€ right now, featuring everything I want pretty much ( and I really like how they look ), I kind of want you guys to help me choose between the two, or maybe suggest me something else.

I'm also about to buy an Artisan mouse pad, not sure which one to take ( maybe you guys could suggest one to me ? ) but probably the Hien VE M or Hayate Otsu Mid M, my budget is 20/30€. I also need one for my brother, a really straight and hard one ( really small too ). Same budget. He has the Rival sensei mouse.

I hope that I've done this post well enough, thanks in advance for assisting me!


----------



## munchzilla

G402 is a great option, but €40 is a little high for it... you can get the G403 for only €10 more, at amazon france.
a lot better mouse overall. the best sensor you can get currently (arguably, but it's really really good).

the clicks are great on it. the shape is very good and it does fill up palm a bit, having a big hump on the back side- works great for claw for me personally!

only slight issue with the G403 is that you would be very well off getting new mouse feet for it, the stock ones don't glide very well until you wear them in, and even then they are only OK.
these ones from Corepad are great:
https://www.maxgaming.com/for-logitech/skatez-pro-107-for-logitech-g403-prodigy-g403-prodigy-wireless
but are a little pricy as you can see...









they have free shipping on mouse feet however.

-

wouldn't recommend the M65 at all, it's very mediocre sensor-wise, and the buttons are quite stiff, not very good for spam clicking for MOBA games.

-

Hayate Otsu Mid is great, super nice glide. it's my favourite Artisan pad currently. Hien MID is second favourite, it's just a little slower than the Hayate Otsu but offers better control over small movements.
I just prefer the slightly faster Hayate Otsu.


----------



## Moys

Thanks a lot for the detailled reply!

As I expected, the M65 wouldn't be my first choice, I was set on the G402 at first anyway. You really are bugging me though, I've heard about the G403 and it seemed really nice, I thought that it was a lot more expensive and buzzed it off. So I can't really decide which one to take now, I like the G402's look a lot more though, and the G403 reminds me a lot about my old G302 that I want to forget about







. . No sniper button too.
There is only one downside ( looks and features are perfect to me ) which is that the cable isn't braided, and it really bothers me when playing because it stucks around my screen and pulls the cable. I play on a gaming laptop on a small desk. ( any solution maybe ? )

For the pad, I'm aslo confused, to be honest I wanted a slow and precise mouse pad to play my tactical shooters perfectly. But thinking twice about it, I'm firstly a LoL player ( and a big one ) so what I need is one that can be fast too. ( I'm an adc main, if maybe you know a little about it, so timing is essential ). I think the Hayate Otsu would be the best choice.

One more thing: do you have a recommendation for a mouse pad for my brother? As I said, he has a SteelSeries sensei raw ( he told me he doesn't think it's from the "Rival" serie ). And he often plays on a soft and small surface, so he needs a really stiff and hard mousepad I guess. I'd rather get him an Artisan mousepad too ( simpler for shipping, and just more practical ), but it's ok if it's from another brand.

Thanks again for helping, I hope you can ( or someone else ) help me with the few details left.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moys*
> 
> Thanks a lot for the detailled reply!
> 
> As I expected, the M65 wouldn't be my first choice, I was set on the G402 at first anyway. You really are bugging me though, I've heard about the G403 and it seemed really nice, I thought that it was a lot more expensive and buzzed it off. So I can't really decide which one to take now, I like the G402's look a lot more though, and the G403 reminds me a lot about my old G302 that I want to forget about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . No sniper button too.
> There is only one downside ( looks and features are perfect to me ) which is that the cable isn't braided, and it really bothers me when playing because it stucks around my screen and pulls the cable. I play on a gaming laptop on a small desk. ( any solution maybe ? )
> 
> For the pad, I'm aslo confused, to be honest I wanted a slow and precise mouse pad to play my tactical shooters perfectly. But thinking twice about it, I'm firstly a LoL player ( and a big one ) so what I need is one that can be fast too. ( I'm an adc main, if maybe you know a little about it, so timing is essential ). I think the Hayate Otsu would be the best choice.
> 
> One more thing: do you have a recommendation for a mouse pad for my brother? As I said, he has a SteelSeries sensei raw ( he told me he doesn't think it's from the "Rival" serie ). And he often plays on a soft and small surface, so he needs a really stiff and hard mousepad I guess. I'd rather get him an Artisan mousepad too ( simpler for shipping, and just more practical ), but it's ok if it's from another brand.
> 
> Thanks again for helping, I hope you can ( or someone else ) help me with the few details left.


post still works for me!

G402 is not at all a bad mouse, if you prefer the looks and buttons of it, the 39 euro or so it costs on amazon FR is not horrible. I just remember buying mine for 28...








it's a good deal, but not fantastic, as it is an older mouse now.

the cable CAN be replaced if you want to, but it would require you to void warranty and all that... there are other solutions too, like Mouse Bungee - https://www.amazon.fr/Flexible-Bungee-Clipper-Organizer-Holder/dp/B00IE1XJSW/
not the prettiest thing but it does the job very well. there are some cooler looking ones but they also cost many many times as much.

Artisan Hayate Otsu Mid and Hien Mid both feel quite hard, so one of those wouldn't be too bad a choice for your brother as well.
the Sensei is not from the Rival series, but it is a mouse that works with most types of surfaces, and has big feet so it will glide well even on textured pads like the Hayate Otsu / Hien.

and to be honest, the Hien isn't actually slow, but the Otsu is very fast...







especially with good quality mouse feet.


----------



## Moys

Luckily, my post went through, it's quite relieving.

I guess I'm set on the G 402, and I'll probabtly get 2 Hien MID M. I thought that the Hayate Otsu was of an higher tier actually, and since it's not much more expensive, it looked like an interesting deal.
My brother is used to play on a flat pillow ( yeah I know it's strange ) and he wanted a mousepad hard enough to be stable, the cheap ones wouldn't work well so he ended up using a hard book. I hope the Hien will fit his needs well, if not he can still put a flat object below it or something I guess.

Anyway, I think that I'm set on what to take, thank you for the Bungee clip suggestion, that will be a life-saver for me, thanks again for your help, have a nice day/evening !


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moys*
> 
> Luckily, my post went through, it's quite relieving.
> 
> I guess I'm set on the G 402, and I'll probabtly get 2 Hien MID M. I thought that the Hayate Otsu was of an higher tier actually, and since it's not much more expensive, it looked like an interesting deal.
> My brother is used to play on a flat pillow ( yeah I know it's strange ) and he wanted a mousepad hard enough to be stable, the cheap ones wouldn't work well so he ended up using a hard book. I hope the Hien will fit his needs well, if not he can still put a flat object below it or something I guess.
> 
> Anyway, I think that I'm set on what to take, thank you for the Bungee clip suggestion, that will be a life-saver for me, thanks again for your help, have a nice day/evening !


not really sure why the Hayate Otsu is more expensive... I guess because it's a newer product. Hien has been around forever!

hope you'll be happy with your purchases


----------



## Moys

Oh, I think that it's a missunderstanding. I meant the Hien VE Medium size, not the MID. I cannot find the MID in amazon.fr anyway. The VE is really cheap, 20€ for the medium size, the Hayate is at 29€. And it's the same on their website : https://www.artisan-jp.com/mousepad_all_eng.html . The price are actually the same, and it looks like the Hayate Otsu is superior from what I can read.

If Hien MID = Hayate Otsu, but Hien VE < Hayate Otsu, I'll get the Hayate then I guess.

Hayate Otsu is at 3000 Y, Hien VE at 1900, MID at 2400.


----------



## munchzilla

I haven't tried the VE, so I can't really say... but the surface should be the same, maybe cheaper rubber base.
the rubber base makes a huge difference, so maybe the Hayate Otsu is a better choice if it's cheaper


----------



## Moys

Yeah, will definitely get the Hayate and play it safe, it fits my budget perfectly anyway, so it's ok.


----------



## NightRaven13

Motospeed V30 or V40?

And why? Tnx for the answers in advance.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightRaven13*
> 
> Motospeed V30 or V40?
> 
> And why? Tnx for the answers in advance.


Both trash.


----------



## 77david7

Hey!
I would like some help choosing my next mice.

What's your grip style? fingertip
What's your sensitivity? 52cm/360
What's your maximum budget? 40euro
Do you want additional buttons? doesnt matter
What games do you play? fps games, mostly cs:go
Do you mind about prediction? yes

My preference in shape and size is something like the kinzu v1.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## munchzilla

Nixeus Revel maybe?
bit larger than Kinzu but similar in shape... nothing is really as small as the Kinzu unfortunately?

unless you can get the SkyDigital tiny mouse that I forgot the name of, but it's not the same kind of shape.


----------



## 77david7

Thanks for your answer Munchzilla!

Nixeus Revel looks great, but unfortunately its not available in my country( Hungary) I dont mind if its a little bit bigger. First i would like to know my options that are available in my country for guarantee reasons. Are there any other options in this price range? or if we go to like 50 euros.


----------



## Gen Patton

Hello, I just bought a Cosair m65 rgb. Trying to get use to it.It has weight to it it fits my hand great, still playing with the features.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *77david7*
> 
> Thanks for your answer Munchzilla!
> 
> Nixeus Revel looks great, but unfortunately its not available in my country( Hungary) I dont mind if its a little bit bigger. First i would like to know my options that are available in my country for guarantee reasons. Are there any other options in this price range? or if we go to like 50 euros.


https://www.maxgaming.com/gaming-mice/revel-gaming-mouse-black

this one should have cheap shipping to Hungary. €40


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *77david7*
> 
> Thanks for your answer Munchzilla!
> 
> Nixeus Revel looks great, but unfortunately its not available in my country( Hungary) I dont mind if its a little bit bigger. First i would like to know my options that are available in my country for guarantee reasons. Are there any other options in this price range? or if we go to like 50 euros.


Just as said above, maxgaming has it for 40 EUR + 5.49 EUR shipping.
Btw check in here sometime comrade: *LINK*


----------



## Garce-C

Hey, anyone have any reviews about Corsair Glaive?


----------



## Muskaos

I desire to replace my Cyborg R.A.T. 7; it is having tracking issues, and the rod that holds the weights in the back is busted.

1. What's your grip style?
Claw.

2. What's your sensitivity?
default (800)

3. What's your maximum budget?
$100

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Two thumb buttons would be nice.

5. What games do you play?
Diablo 3, Cities: Skylines, Eve Online, offline Doom, Prey (I'm old, online FPS is no longer my thing.







)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Never used it

7. Other relevant information:
I have giant hands, 22cm long 27cm wide. I have the RAT as wide as I can get it, with the largest pinky rest in. Prefer a wheel with tactile notches,

8. I prefer wired, and a weighty mouse. Previous mice used: Intellimouse 2.0, 3.0, Sidewinder.

I could buy another RAT 7 I guess, done that before, but it doesnt look like MadCat makes it any more.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Muskaos*
> 
> I desire to replace my Cyborg R.A.T. 7; it is having tracking issues, and the rod that holds the weights in the back is busted.
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> Claw.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> default (800)
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $100
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Two thumb buttons would be nice.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> Diablo 3, Cities: Skylines, Eve Online, offline Doom, Prey (I'm old, online FPS is no longer my thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Never used it
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I have giant hands, 22cm long 27cm wide. I have the RAT as wide as I can get it, with the largest pinky rest in. Prefer a wheel with tactile notches,
> 
> 8. I prefer wired, and a weighty mouse. Previous mice used: Intellimouse 2.0, 3.0, Sidewinder.
> 
> I could buy another RAT 7 I guess, done that before, but it doesnt look like MadCat makes it any more.


Here's some big, heavy mice:









Logitech G502

Roccat Leadr

Roccat Kone EMP

The G502 has Logitech's "hyper-fast" scrolling mechanic, which ends up making the steps much more tactile compared to their other mice. Can't speak for any of Roccat's mice because I don't own one, but people who do say they have really nice wheels.

All of these mice use the 3360 sensor as well, which will be a _big improvement_ over the laser sensor in the RAT 7.


----------



## Muskaos

G502 on the way, was on sale at Amazon $54.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Muskaos*
> 
> G502 on the way, was on sale at Amazon $54.


Nice.







The G502 has a pretty comfortable shape that suits medium-large to large hands. I think I'm somewhere in there at 19.5 x 10.5cm. Hopefully it'll still work out with your huge hands lol.


----------



## Muskaos

Story of my life; I live in a world built for short people.


----------



## Tirppa

So I want a mouse close to G Pro but with a bit more straight sides and hump in the back to support my palm.



See that gap in the back? Fill it bois!


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tirppa*
> 
> So I want a mouse close to G Pro but with a bit more straight sides and hump in the back to support my palm.
> 
> 
> 
> See that gap in the back? Fill it bois!


ZA12/13


----------



## atenleggedninja

Some may think I'm crazy, but I use the MX Master by Logitech for this very reason. I game on it, and even though it is wireless I enjoy playing CS:GO on it. I may not be perceptive enough to notice the lag that wireless mice have. Then again, logitech makes a decent product. This comment was not sponsored in any way


----------



## Melan

MX master has crazy high click latency though.


----------



## ooztuncer

Hello all,

I have been reading for some time now and also tried logitech, razer and steelseries mice in a store for a very short period of time.

Ergonomically, it felt better with deathadder elite, chroma, diamondback, taipan, rival 100 and perhaps G102. Among them, shape wise my favorite was taipan.

Currently I am using a cheap E-3lue Mazer (version 1): http://www.dx.com/p/e-3lue-ems140bkc-e-blue-mazer-2500dpi-optical-usb-wired-gaming-mouse-w-blue-led-blue-black-243259#.WXXqSISGNEY

and here: http://www.overclock.net/products/e-3lue-mazer-type-r-2500dpi-usb-wired-optical-game-gaming-mouse-black-gray-ems140

Perhaps its shape is similar to taipan and that's why I liked taipan the most; but anyways if you can recommend some options that would be great.

My hand size is 18.5 x 10.5 cm.


What's your grip style?
*I can't say for sure. I believe its in between palm/claw but my index and middle fingers are also extended little bit (not straight by any means). I hold the mouse with the help of my thumb and pinky (1-2-2). Finally, there is a gap between the hump and my palm. I definitely not hold the mouse tightly.*

What's your sensitivity?
*800 dpi*

What's your maximum budget?
*60 Euro*

Do you want additional buttons?
*not necessarily*

What games do you play?
*want it mainly for csgo.*

Do you mind about prediction?
*no*

Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
*want to try lightweight mice also if possible driverless; but most importantly good ergonomics.*
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Nawafwabs

is there small mouse than zowie ec2


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tirppa*
> 
> So I want a mouse close to G Pro but with a bit more straight sides and hump in the back to support my palm.
> 
> 
> 
> See that gap in the back? Fill it bois!


I have filled it. I used a right handed microsoft 2 button ball mouse, cut it across with a hacksaw and did the same to my brand new g102 then superglued them together.

http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


----------



## Tirppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I have filled it. I used a right handed microsoft 2 button ball mouse, cut it across with a hacksaw and did the same to my brand new g102 then superglued them together.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


Genius


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


Laughed so hard at that image.. not in a bad way.. but still hilarious.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I have filled it. I used a right handed microsoft 2 button ball mouse, cut it across with a hacksaw and did the same to my brand new g102 then superglued them together.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


This forum summed up in one picture.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


Looks like a turtle coming out of his egg but if it works there is no problem with it


----------



## Japi95

-


----------



## Trilandian

Hi again,

My Avior 7000 is starting to age, and after the wheel button stopped working for a few minutes today, I decided I need a backup in case of a more serious failure.

I saw on the Mionix website that they're no longer releasing the Avior series, so I figured I should go with a more current model.

---

*What's your grip style?*

Fingertip.

*What's your sensitivity?*

1,500 CPI.

*What's your maximum budget?*

~$150

*Do you want additional buttons?*

One on each side, near the top. I also found the topside buttons behind the wheel on the Avior useful, so that would also be good.

*What games do you play?*

Mostly turn-based squad tactics.

*Do you mind about prediction?*

Don't know. Haven't had any experience with it.

*Other relevant information:*

Like the Avior 7000 and the Sensei [RAW](s) before it, I want an ambidextrous mouse with a rubber coating.

I loved the feel and handling of the Sensei, so that, minus the Sensei's awful reliability issues, would be great.

I also like the Avior, and didn't have much trouble getting used to it. My main complaint is the very heavy wheel button and the far forward position of the wheel.


----------



## Aricil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I have filled it. I used a right handed microsoft 2 button ball mouse, cut it across with a hacksaw and did the same to my brand new g102 then superglued them together.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg


Omg it's a Frankenmouse


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aricil*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I have filled it. I used a right handed microsoft 2 button ball mouse, cut it across with a hacksaw and did the same to my brand new g102 then superglued them together.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/PsFTLse.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Omg it's a Frankenmouse
Click to expand...

NO, it's a G102 Alien gestating out of it's old victim. Just like in the Muveezzz







.


----------



## Screwball

>What's your grip style?
Palm/Fingertip hybrid
>What's your sensitivity?
14 inch 360
>What's your maximum budget?
$150
>Do you want additional buttons?
standard 5 button
>What games do you play?
TF2, Quake Champions, LawBreakers, OSU!
>Do you mind about prediction?
Yes
>Hand length
8 inches
>Hand width
4 inches
>weight
less than 115 grams (prefer as low as possible)
>other information
I found Zowie buttons to be to stiff and Razer to be to light.


----------



## Skylinestar

Hi y'all,
I'm looking for a good gaming mouse. I'm currently using a Steelseries Rival 100 mouse. Before that, a Logitech MX310 and MX518. IMO, I still love that MX310 curvature. I think it fits my hand perfectly. It's my favorite mouse. MX518 is a little big for my hand. Rival 100 (smallest in Steelseries) feels a little awkward too. I've also tested a Razer Salmosa (Asian edition), which is just too tiny. The MX310 is dead. Is there any mouse that can make me happy?

What's your grip style?
- fingertip
What's your sensitivity?
- not sure
What's your maximum budget?
- $40
Do you want additional buttons?
- It must have side fwd/back button.
What games do you play?
- Mainly fps
Do you mind about prediction?
- no prediction please.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*
> 
> Hi y'all,
> I'm looking for a good gaming mouse. I'm currently using a Steelseries Rival 100 mouse. Before that, a Logitech MX310 and MX518. IMO, I still love that MX310 curvature. I think it fits my hand perfectly. It's my favorite mouse. MX518 is a little big for my hand. Rival 100 (smallest in Steelseries) feels a little awkward too. I've also tested a Razer Salmosa (Asian edition), which is just too tiny. The MX310 is dead. Is there any mouse that can make me happy?
> 
> What's your grip style?
> - fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> - not sure
> What's your maximum budget?
> - $40
> Do you want additional buttons?
> - It must have side fwd/back button.
> What games do you play?
> - Mainly fps
> Do you mind about prediction?
> - no prediction please.


Logitech G203

Logitech: http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g203-prodigy-gaming-mouse

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-G203-Prodigy-Wired-Gaming-Black-910-004842/dp/B01M26YUKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501682577&sr=8-1&keywords=Logitech+G203


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Screwball*
> 
> >What's your grip style?
> Palm/Fingertip hybrid
> >What's your sensitivity?
> 14 inch 360
> >What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> >Do you want additional buttons?
> standard 5 button
> >What games do you play?
> TF2, Quake Champions, LawBreakers, OSU!
> >Do you mind about prediction?
> Yes
> >Hand length
> 8 inches
> >Hand width
> 4 inches
> >weight
> less than 115 grams (prefer as low as possible)
> >other information
> I found Zowie buttons to be to stiff and Razer to be to light.


Lol, so interesting story, right. I found that I do _much_ better at Osu! over time with my Logitech G Pro. Probably because it's so light, but the shape just doesn't work for me with the way I'm used to gripping my mice. I should probably learn to fingertip it..

Anyway, I think the G403 WIRED would work well. Idk what you prefer for your other games, but I feel that light weight, and a shape that fills your palm (unless you fingertip) is what's most important for Osu! feeling like such a weeb rn Besides that though, the size would work for your hand measurements even if you fully palmed it, Logitech's buttons have less travel than both Razer's and Zowie's, and are more instant. The wired G403 comes in at 87.3 grams, which is _great_ for a mouse of its size.

And because you'll still be within budget, I _highly_ recommend one of these: http://www.overclock.net/t/1621381/paracord-mice-cable-made-by-ceesa

Sooo much better than the stock braided cable. Makes any mouse feel like wireless.


----------



## Corfoi

My hand size is about 18.5cm long and 11cm wide


My grip style is a hybrid palm and claw(the back of my palm rests on the mouse, my index finger and middle finger are arched)


Mouse that I own: zowie ec1/2a, za12 ,fk1(I returned this one) ,razer deathadder 2013 ,hyperx pulsefire , Roccat Kone EMP
I am using the pulsefire as my main now, it fits my palm really well but it is kind of hard for to make micro adjustments in game with my wrist using this mouse. I used to use zowie ec2a a lot, it dosen't supports my palm that well like the pulsefire but it didn't feel uncomfortable. I can't find a way to grip the EC1A/deathadder/EMP comfortably. Suggestions for mice that I might feel comfortable?


----------



## Skylinestar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Logitech G203
> 
> Logitech: http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g203-prodigy-gaming-mouse
> 
> Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-G203-Prodigy-Wired-Gaming-Black-910-004842/dp/B01M26YUKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501682577&sr=8-1&keywords=Logitech+G203


Sigh. G203 not available in my country. Any other alternative?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*
> 
> Sigh. G203 not available in my country. Any other alternative?


Even the G102? They're the same mice under different names for different regions.


----------



## farynaa

I need
1. Microsoft 3.0 shape
2. good click latency (0-5 ms)
3. A3090 sensor or better.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farynaa*
> 
> I need
> 1. Microsoft 3.0 shape
> 2. good click latency (0-5 ms)
> 3. A3090 sensor or better.


Logitech G403 or Zowie EC2-A.


----------



## Gen Patton

Have you looked at Cosair give them a look.


----------



## phaseshift

So I recently picked up a G403 Prodigy, I'm loving it so far but my only gripe is the texture of the mouse. It's too smooth, but once my palm gets semi moist that's when I start to really like the mouse. Does anyone have the same issue? Any other suggestions?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen Patton*
> 
> Have you looked at Cosair give them a look.


They're all terrible.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farynaa*
> 
> I need
> 1. Microsoft 3.0 shape
> 2. good click latency (0-5 ms)
> 3. A3090 sensor or better.


TT eSports Ventus X Optical RGB fits that pretty nicely IMO. it's a little bit fatter than the IME 3.0 but it doesn't feel too far off.


----------



## Gen Patton

why you say there not good?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen Patton*
> 
> why you say there not good?


less than ideal optimized firmware - bit more latency than competitors. quite heavy too.
not the favourite here.

but shape should be first priority anyway!


----------



## farynaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> Logitech G403 or Zowie EC2-A.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> TT eSports Ventus X Optical RGB fits that pretty nicely IMO. it's a little bit fatter than the IME 3.0 but it doesn't feel too far off.


Thanks
AFAIK Zowie's buttons are 7-8 ms latency. And I have no information about Ventus X.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farynaa*
> 
> Thanks
> AFAIK Zowie's buttons are 7-8 ms latency. And I have no information about Ventus X.


I think they're on par with the Logitech offerings, so even lower. you can adjust it in the driver software too if it's too low.


----------



## twerk

Anyone know if there's any difference between the G403 and G703 apart from the new wireless charging capability?

I don't care about the wireless charging, I just want the best wireless mouse possible. The G403 is £25 cheaper.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Anyone know if there's any difference between the G403 and G703 apart from the new wireless charging capability?
> 
> I don't care about the wireless charging, I just want the best wireless mouse possible. The G403 is £25 cheaper.


not really. G403 newer batches should not have any issues.

colour option for white is also a thing with G703. but other than that nope!


----------



## a20eac1d

I am looking for a new mouse, mostly for gaming and programming.

So far, I've been using the Mionix Naos 8200 for about two years. Sadly, the sensor started to break down (cursor jumped around). Amazon sent me a replacement but on this one the scroll wheel has a "bump" and sometimes scroll twice when it shouldn't. In the past I tried the Logitech G502 Proteus Core and went through three mice in one month because EVERY SINGLE ONE had a technical defect. That is absolutely inacceptable and also why I would like to avoid Logitech products. I really like the size of the Naos 8200 so something similar would be awesome.

Budget range is 60-80€.

Thanks!


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a20eac1d*
> 
> I am looking for a new mouse, mostly for gaming and programming.
> 
> So far, I've been using the Mionix Naos 8200 for about two years. Sadly, the sensor started to break down (cursor jumped around). Amazon sent me a replacement but on this one the scroll wheel has a "bump" and sometimes scroll twice when it shouldn't. In the past I tried the Logitech G502 Proteus Core and went through three mice in one month because EVERY SINGLE ONE had a technical defect. That is absolutely inacceptable and also why I would like to avoid Logitech products. I really like the size of the Naos 8200 so something similar would be awesome.
> 
> Budget range is 60-80€.
> 
> Thanks!


Did the technical defect with the G502 have something to do with the scroll wheel? If so, it's probably supposed to be like that.

Anyway, take a look at this: Dream Machines DM2 Comfy

https://www.dreammachines.pl/en/dm2comfy

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machines-DM2-Comfy-Optical/dp/B01J4JV646/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1502614681&sr=8-1&keywords=Dream+Machines+dm2+comfy


----------



## Avalar

There's the Mionix Naos 7000 as well.

https://www.amazon.com/MIONIX-Multi-Color-Ergonomic-Optical-Gaming/dp/B00HGKQ6VY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1502615121&sr=1-1&keywords=Mionix+7000


----------



## jayfkay

can u guys suggest any palmgrip mice for big hands? 19x11 (if u count thumb)

g400 shape has been go-to so far. g403 is too small. deathadder is too small (would be alright if it had a bigger "butt").


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> can u guys suggest any palmgrip mice for big hands? 19x11 (if u count thumb)
> 
> g400 shape has been go-to so far. g403 is too small. deathadder is too small (would be alright if it had a bigger "butt").


The DeathAdder is pretty big; you won't find many larger than it. My hands are 19.5x10.5 and I palm grip, and the G403 is _just_ big enough for me. The G502, maybe?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> can u guys suggest any palmgrip mice for big hands? 19x11 (if u count thumb)
> 
> g400 shape has been go-to so far. g403 is too small. deathadder is too small (would be alright if it had a bigger "butt").


The roccat kone could be an option for you


----------



## jayfkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> The DeathAdder is pretty big; you won't find many larger than it. My hands are 19.5x10.5 and I palm grip, and the G403 is _just_ big enough for me. The G502, maybe?


g502? horrible shape, just like g402.







not sure what they were thinking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> The roccat kone could be an option for you


XTD seems good shape wise. I'd be interested in the owl eye, too bad its so small. a 3310 or 3360 would be really good.


----------



## t3ram

Jayfkay there is also the normal kone with owl eye not only the small pure


----------



## jayfkay

thanks for the headsup. damn, the EMP is expensive tho. anyone got experiences with that one=?


----------



## NEXOFX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> thanks for the headsup. damn, the EMP is expensive tho. anyone got experiences with that one=?


It's a pretty good mouse, imo.
The buttons are a bit louder compared to other mice (my unit at least), cable is braided and it's pretty heavy, but otherwise it's a really good mouse for large hands. (I palm gripped it with 19,5x10,5cm)
The weight was the dealbreaker for me personally, but I still recommend it.


----------



## ninogui

I have an EMP that I share time with a g403 and a g500

I love the EMP very soft plastic texture and it fits great for a big hand >19.5, also its the best scroll wheel around hands down, software´s pretty good too. It´s lighter than the g502, send back one because of weight and size too small for big palm claw hybrid (but I found to be the best main button click)

Only down is stiff/hard to click main buttons compared to logitech but mushy it is not (I find the g403 just so slightly mushy)
I hope it softens overtime, and if they had included additional switches the softer 20M ones and easy to replace like asus they would have a top 5 mouse.


----------



## FstokA

Hi fells,
Would like your help for mouse recommendation:

What's your grip style? Palm & Fingertip.
What's your sensitivity? Normal .
What's your maximum budget? ~45$, preferably ~30$.
Do you want additional buttons? Preferably.
What games do you play? Mix.
Do you mind about prediction? One with option to turn off, otherwise no.
Other relevant information: Right, Hand Size: 18-20 cm, Weight: No preference, my current mk120 cause fatigue in [here](


http://imgur.com/Fij3rve

), i would like a comfortable mouse.

Thank you.


----------



## Nawafwabs

my dream mouse

LxWxH = 4 x 2.2x 1. 6 inches


----------



## OCmember

How are the "Bloody" mouse sensors? They claim the fastest click response also. Is that true?


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OCmember*
> 
> How are the "Bloody" mouse sensors? They claim the fastest click response also. Is that true?


I think most of them were adns3050, which is ok but not top of the line. I see no reason to doubt their claims of click response.


----------



## Staticks

I've been using this small HP N910u 1000dpi 3-button for a while now: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Button-Optical-KY619AA-ABA/dp/B0029L0IM8

and occasionally I'll boot up some CS or Quake when I'm bored, and I find that I aim extremely well with it. My fingers are on the long side, and I usually fingertip my mice. Maybe some claw and palm action in there. I find this mouse is perfect for fingertipping, because of the completely flat sides (slight concave), no curvature outward towards the butt, so plenty of space for pinky, and it's super lightweight (maybe 68 grams without cable). The extremely low weight makes it really easy to lift (I lift my mouse a lot).

I'm having trouble finding something similar for serious gaming. Roccat Lua is super light, but the shape looks weird, and I've read that the sensor isn't very good. Asus ROG Sica looks promising, with nice flat sides, and good angles. Significantly heavier though at ~80 grams, so that's concerning, and the lack of side buttons is slightly disappointing (but not dealbreaking).

MasterMouse S is 78 grams without the internal metal piece. Hard to find though, and I heard there are units out there with terrible cables. Shape doesn't look perfect for fingertip.

Basically, I'm looking for a lightweight fingertip mouse that's got a good shape for maximum grip, and easy lifting and maneuverability. Flat sides, and the extremely low weight, seem to be the main reasons why I can aim so well with my HP office mouse.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Hi Everyone!

I'm looking for a new right handed mouse with a fairly good sensor and finger rests on both side (for my pinky and ring finger too).
I've tried the Naos 7000, but I would like to hear some other suggestions.
Is the Qpad 8k optical any good? Didn't find so much info about it.

Many thanks for sour help!


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Could anyone identify what sensor is being used here? http://www.performance-pcs.com/sunbeam-ms-x888-sensor-x-hi-tech-gaming-mouse.html

thanks


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> Could anyone identify what sensor is being used here? http://www.performance-pcs.com/sunbeam-ms-x888-sensor-x-hi-tech-gaming-mouse.html
> 
> thanks


Damn 650 and 1300 dpi
No-need-to-mention mouse sensor that is usually used for generic office mouse


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> Damn 650 and 1300 dpi
> No-need-to-mention mouse sensor that is usually used for generic office mouse


HAHA! I suppose so! but only one way to find out. Thanks though.

Can anyone point me to a mouse that is similar to the Razer Diamondback/Copperhead from when Razer put a good sensor in a decent mouse shape?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaTpr0F*
> 
> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I'm looking for a new right handed mouse with a fairly good sensor and finger rests on both side (for my pinky and ring finger too).
> I've tried the Naos 7000, but I would like to hear some other suggestions.
> Is the Qpad 8k optical any good? Didn't find so much info about it.
> 
> Many thanks for sour help!


Naos Qg has a 3360 but is very expensive


----------



## MaTpr0F

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Naos Qg has a 3360 but is very expensive


Yes, plus I don't need that hearthrate BS the stuffed into it. For me it doesn't worth the extra price.
Something else with 3310 or equal (maybe A9800/9500)?


----------



## Staticks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Staticks*
> 
> I've been using this small HP N910u 1000dpi 3-button for a while now: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Button-Optical-KY619AA-ABA/dp/B0029L0IM8
> 
> and occasionally I'll boot up some CS or Quake when I'm bored, and I find that I aim extremely well with it. My fingers are on the long side, and I usually fingertip my mice. Maybe some claw and palm action in there. I find this mouse is perfect for fingertipping, because of the completely flat sides (slight concave), no curvature outward towards the butt, so plenty of space for pinky, and it's super lightweight (maybe 68 grams without cable). The extremely low weight makes it really easy to lift (I lift my mouse a lot).
> 
> I'm having trouble finding something similar for serious gaming. Roccat Lua is super light, but the shape looks weird, and I've read that the sensor isn't very good. Asus ROG Sica looks promising, with nice flat sides, and good angles. Significantly heavier though at ~80 grams, so that's concerning, and the lack of side buttons is slightly disappointing (but not dealbreaking).
> 
> MasterMouse S is 78 grams without the internal metal piece. Hard to find though, and I heard there are units out there with terrible cables. Shape doesn't look perfect for fingertip.
> 
> Basically, I'm looking for a lightweight fingertip mouse that's got a good shape for maximum grip, and easy lifting and maneuverability. Flat sides, and the extremely low weight, seem to be the main reasons why I can aim so well with my HP office mouse.


Current mouse I'm considering right now based on some more research is Abyssus V2, which only weighs 71-73 grams when you take out the internal weight. Unfortunately no side buttons, which is a rather big downside when I have to unload some actions from WASD (having to reach over to press the V key in Destiny 2 to use my class ability is ridiculous).

Torq X5 looks good, with a symmetrical, simple shape, and no flare-out for the palm. Unfortunately, rather heavy at 88 grams on the scale with a little cable.


----------



## Curleyyy

Highly recommend EC2A (white edition) - been using it for 6 weeks now after having the Deathadder variants since 2008.

When I switched to the new mouse I noticed it was a little smaller and my thumb buttons were harder to press due to a smaller button width and there's a little lip before the switch which is a nice touch. The right pinky sat off a little more than the DA, HOWEVER on the DA my pinky would drag a lot on the desk, that hasn't happened at all with the EC2A.

It took almost next to no time to become adjusted to this mouse, and my aim literally LITERALLY NOT EVEN PLACEBO improved. Everything felt MUCH mUCH snappier and I wasn't over/under shooting my targets anywhere near as much.

The scroll wheel is more tactile than the DA and feels great. I'm currently using the White Gloss Edition EC2A - I made the switch from a rubber finish so it will appear to last longer and not degrade as quickly due to oils in the hands.

I thought the HUGE mouse feet would be a problem but it's balanced so well, I never feel my mouse tilting as I swipe / digging into the desk, it's always flat and smooth. I replaced the default feet with some HyperGlides, they give you 2 sets of teflon feet!!! and that improved the glide even further.

THE ONLY CAVEAT that I have with this mouse is that the mouse wheel colour is locked to different DPI's, purple, green, red etc,. However that means that you don't need software which I much prefer!

10/10 mouse
10/10 feel
10/10 grip
10/10 sensor
10/10 build quality


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Highly recommend EC2A (white edition) - been using it for 6 weeks now after having the Deathadder variants since 2008.
> 
> When I switched to the new mouse I noticed it was a little smaller and my thumb buttons were harder to press due to a smaller button width and there's a little lip before the switch which is a nice touch. The right pinky sat off a little more than the DA, HOWEVER on the DA my pinky would drag a lot on the desk, that hasn't happened at all with the EC2A.
> 
> It took almost next to no time to become adjusted to this mouse, and my aim literally LITERALLY NOT EVEN PLACEBO improved. Everything felt MUCH mUCH snappier and I wasn't over/under shooting my targets anywhere near as much.
> 
> The scroll wheel is more tactile than the DA and feels great. I'm currently using the White Gloss Edition EC2A - I made the switch from a rubber finish so it will appear to last longer and not degrade as quickly due to oils in the hands.
> 
> I thought the HUGE mouse feet would be a problem but it's balanced so well, I never feel my mouse tilting as I swipe / digging into the desk, it's always flat and smooth. I replaced the default feet with some HyperGlides, they give you 2 sets of teflon feet!!! and that improved the glide even further.
> 
> THE ONLY CAVEAT that I have with this mouse is that the mouse wheel colour is locked to different DPI's, purple, green, red etc,. However that means that you don't need software which I much prefer!
> 
> 10/10 mouse
> 10/10 feel
> 10/10 grip
> 10/10 sensor
> 10/10 build quality


the only problem with ec2a is click latency

so I would say g pro best mouse for now


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> EC2A
> 10/10 build quality


Good joke.

Let alone giving everything 10/10.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 10/10 feel
> 10/10 grip


Don't these vary from person to person?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 10/10 sensor


How could this be 10/10 if it doesn't use the best sensor?


----------



## Shogoki

A glossy EC2A would be my personal definition of hell.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> A glossy EC2A would be my personal definition of hell.


Same, can't hold glossy mice for frick all and also the EC2 shape doesn't work that great with my hand.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Don't these vary from person to person?
> How could this be 10/10 if it doesn't use the best sensor?


well I'd guess he's rating it for him...
if he can't detect any sensor issues or implementation issues then he could rate it 10/10 no problem









I find it didn't perform too well on certain settings but overall it's alright


----------



## Curleyyy

Click Latency is 16ms according to the OCN charts, the other mice are a lot lower, yeah... I think it's just due to _feeling_ better than a Deathadder in almost every aspect - "10/10" isn't really accurate, more of a subjective review, especially since I've only owned two other mice. I've used plenty but I don't consider that to count.

I'm using 800 DPI with it and it feels really, really snappy and accurate - probably not the best sensor, although I was under the impression it was pretty decent, however I'm yet to find any issues with it, like I mentioned being able to hit a target and not over/undershoot is wonderful, I couldn't imagine how a _better_ sensor compares for situations like tracking targets and accurate movement from arm to cursor.

I think I've made a great decision with going for the glossy finish, years of oils and the rubber wearing off the sides of mice were quite horrendous; having the glossy finish is so much more aesthetically pleasing, easy to clean and tbh I thought it would be slippery as hell but I'm yet to drop it or have any slips ( I think my hand fitting the mouse pretty well helps with slippery mice not slipping )

Mind you I've got the revised edition, new scroll wheel etc, and HyperGlide feet ( the stock feet were trash ). Might have less / no apparent issues compared to earlier models, hence giving the impression that it's a "perfect" mouse. I will say the build quality is great, there's no rattle, or crunching plastic sound when you squeeze it really hard, no flex etc,. oh and it's a feather compared to a DA with even weight distribution ( my deathadder would always tilt back when lifted )


----------



## Alya

Old Zowie mice are 16ms, new ones are 10ms. Click delay still sucks though, considering the oldest EC (just ECx) mouse is 11ms, but after that mouse (FK/EC eVo) it was 16ms.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Old Zowie mice are 16ms, new ones are 10ms. Click delay still though, considering the oldest EC (just ECx) mouse is 11ms, but after that mouse (FK/EC eVo) it was 16ms.


New one's are actually set to +8ms in their firmware. It was amusingly even spelled out by Kingsis in the firmware.

It was something mr. trism gleamed earlier this year when fooling around with the firmware.


----------



## PhoenixCS

Hey guys, I need some help finding the correct mouse for me.


What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip
What's your sensitivity? Low
What's your maximum budget? 70€
Do you want additional buttons? Two on the left site
What games do you play? CS:GO
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction, or ability to turn it off
Other relevant information:

Handsize: 19x9.5cm

I've been using a Rival 300 for almost 2 years now, but I feel like it doesn't suit my grip style. So far I tested the EC1-A and EC2-A. EC1-A is just a bit too big for my liking and the EC2-A felt really good while aiming but my hand hurt after a while, presumably because it's a bit too small. So I think I need a mouse with a size right inbetween

Mice that I've been considering:
Rival 100(cus of shape), Rival 310, Sensei 310, FK1(+), G403

Thanks in advance!


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhoenixCS*
> 
> Hey guys, I need some help finding the correct mouse for me.
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw/Fingertip
> What's your sensitivity? Low
> What's your maximum budget? 70€
> Do you want additional buttons? Two on the left site
> What games do you play? CS:GO
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction, or ability to turn it off
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Handsize: 19x9.5cm
> 
> I've been using a Rival 300 for almost 2 years now, but I feel like it doesn't suit my grip style. So far I tested the EC1-A and EC2-A. EC1-A is just a bit too big for my liking and the EC2-A felt really good while aiming but my hand hurt after a while, presumably because it's a bit too small. So I think I need a mouse with a size right inbetween
> 
> Mice that I've been considering:
> Rival 100(cus of shape), Rival 310, Sensei 310, FK1(+), G403
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'd go for a Sensei 310, and if it doesn't work a G403.


----------



## muso

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 1600
What's your maximum budget? $80
Do you want additional buttons? Two on the right side and left
What games do you play? CS:GO, pubg, dota 2
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
Other relevant information:

Handsize: 20.5x9.5cm

left handed so has to be ambidextrous. prefer lighter mice with very light clicks. gpro is abit small, same with fk2


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 1600
> What's your maximum budget? $80
> Do you want additional buttons? Two on the right side and left
> What games do you play? CS:GO, pubg, dota 2
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Handsize: 20.5x9.5cm
> 
> left handed so has to be ambidextrous. prefer lighter mice with very light clicks. gpro is abit small, same with fk2


SteelSeries Sensei 310

https://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-TrueMove3-Optical-Split-Trigger-Buttons/dp/B073WGB8G6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504596740&sr=8-1&keywords=sensei+310


----------



## muso

Thanks, hopefully this will be big enough and fit my palm abit.


----------



## MidNighTempest

What's your grip style? *Hybrid Palm / Relax Claw Grip*.
What's your sensitivity? *Higher than 1600[/B.]
*
What's your maximum budget? *Under $70*.
Do you want additional buttons? *Doesn't Matter*.
What games do you play? *Mainly MOBAs & some FPS*.
Do you mind about prediction? *Don't know what This Is*.
Other relevant information: *20-21cm x 10.8cm Hand. Mouse that I've tried / Own: Zowie EC1-A(2016 - Mouse creaking), GPro, G502, G403, G900, Rival 310, XTD Laser, MX318, Mionix Avior 7000, DeathAdder Black Edition*
Hello!

I'm looking for a Mouse with Wide Grip width, There are some mouse I've tried in the past like the Rival 310 / G900 which I feel isn't wide enough for my liking. I'm also looking for something with a good tactile mouse buttons in MB1/MB2. I Prefer the tactile feel of the clicking, I game with a MX Green M.KeyBoard so I'm fine with the heavy Click force. I'm currently using the EC1-A which is OK but we all know it has flaws. I don't feel like buying another EC1-A until Zowie Update / Refresh the Mouse. The G403 gave me Pain so I couldn't use it for long.

Anti-RAZER Product.

Any Mouse you guys would suggest / Recommend?


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> Thanks, hopefully this will be big enough and fit my palm abit.


Hope so. You and I are sorta opposites lol. My hands are 1cm wider and 1cm shorter than yours.


----------



## t3ram

Is there something that comes close to a scream one in terms of shape and weight?


----------



## soulseek

*Games*: CSGO and LoL
*Hand Preference*: Right, but no problems with ambidextrous
*Budget*: $75 USD
*Hand Size*: 19cm / 9,5cm wide
*Grip*: Hybrid Palm+Claw
*Weight*: Light to medium (hate Heavies)
*Sensitivity*: I've found 1100 DPI is OK for Window-ing (navigate, youtube, facebook, etc.), then I adapt it to my games
*Additional Details*: I'm using G203 since January (after a Rival 300, that gave me some hurt), recently I got a G403 and: love the improving in precision, but HATED TOO MUCH the hurt it causes in my hand at all.

I'm testing a Deathadder Chroma, if I like it, DA Elite will be an option beside Roccat Kone Pure Owl Eye.

Actually my mainly requisite is the newest sensor (3360), thought about EC2-A, but I'd like something new (if there was a Zowie with 3360, I'd give it a try).


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> *Games*: CSGO and LoL
> *Hand Preference*: Right, but no problems with ambidextrous
> *Budget*: $75 USD
> *Hand Size*: 19cm / 9,5cm wide
> *Grip*: Hybrid Palm+Claw
> *Weight*: Light to medium (hate Heavies)
> *Sensitivity*: I've found 1100 DPI is OK for Window-ing (navigate, youtube, facebook, etc.), then I adapt it to my games
> *Additional Details*: I'm using G203 since January (after a Rival 300, that gave me some hurt), recently I got a G403 and: love the improving in precision, but HATED TOO MUCH the hurt it causes in my hand at all.
> 
> I'm testing a Deathadder Chroma, if I like it, DA Elite will be an option beside Roccat Kone Pure Owl Eye.
> 
> Actually my mainly requisite is the newest sensor (3360), thought about EC2-A, but I'd like something new (if there was a Zowie with 3360, I'd give it a try).


Either of SteelSeries' new mice could work for you.


----------



## genbarrison

What's your grip style?
*Used to be fingertip, now I want a palm grip mouse*
What's your sensitivity?
*Used to be low, now should be Medium/High*
What's your maximum budget?
*200$*
Do you want additional buttons?
*mouse4/mouse5 is enough*
What games do you play?
*FPS(CS,PUBG,CoD,Quake)*
Do you mind about prediction?
*Prediction off*
Hand Size?
*18/9.5 cm*
I've been playing with a finger tip grip for a few years now and feel like the grip is the cause for my lack of precision. As an example, I'm currently using the fk2 and my CS:GO in game sensitivity has to be 1.3 @400dpi which is about 80cm/360* to give me a feel of accuracy, so that I'm able to consistently headshot on long range fights. It's extremely frustrating to move around with such a low sensitivity.
MarkC win10 mousefix is applied, acceleration in game and in Windows is off, ingame rawinput is on.

Mice I tried:
fk2: Too small, can only fingertip it
za13: Too small and faulty sensor on mine
ec2-a: Was hitting amazing shots and made me come to the conclusion that I need a palm mouse. I could turn a blind eye on the horrible side buttons and mousewheel if it wasn't for the hump in the left back which made it uncomfortable and caused pain. Also, I was automatically holding the mouse sideways, kinda like in this pic on the right side: https://i.imgur.com/rEHdLgS.jpg
DA Elite: Positive experience, can't really remember why I sent it back. It was a bit heavy I think.
g303: Too small, can only fingertip/claw it. All the weight in the back.
gpro: Great fingertip mouse, but again my aim being inconsistent because of the grip
g403: I was accurate and consistent with it, but the mouse was even more uncomfortable than the ec2-a and I was holding it sideways as well.

TLR: I want a plam mouse because I feel like I'm inconsistent with fingertip grip. I'd like to play on a relatively high sensitivity and still be accurate (30cm/360* or whatever). Personally I'd like to try the Rival 310, but the button issues scare me a little. I read that buying directly from the Steelseries page lowers the chance of getting a faulty mouse, if anyone can confirm that.


----------



## 21Dante

[*] What's your grip style? Hybrid Fingertip-Palm
[*] What's your sensitivity? 1600
[*] What's your maximum budget? 40 Euros
[*] Do you want additional buttons? +2
[*] What games do you play? FPS-Strategy
[*] Do you mind about prediction? Off
[*] Other relevant information: Bought some weeks ago G102.I am very satisfied but the shape is annoying.I had amicrosoft laser 6000 for years and my palm was full on the mouse but with G102 there is a gap between my palm and back of the mouse and annoys me as hell.I'm thinking about G402.Note that my hands get a bit sweaty so something with mat finish,would be better.G102 was good at that,as the 6000 I had ,made me put stickers on it because it was getting annoying while handling it.


----------



## DarkReign32

Hey Guys,

I'm looking for some mouse suggestions.

What's your grip style? Hybrid - Palm/Claw
What's your sensitivity? 2-3 in game, 400-800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? $70 CAD
Do you want additional buttons? Just side buttons
What games do you play? FPS - BF1, BF4. Adventure - TW3
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure.
Other relevant information: I'm not interested in anything too glossy. Wireless doesn't interest me much.
My hand size is 17.4 cm x 8.9 cm.

I have a G402 right now and the shape is okay. At work I'm using a Kone Pure Military and it hurts my wrist. The idea is that I'd like to take the G402 to work and get rid of the KPM. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## s0rry

Logitech G203/G pro? Or maybe a Zowie mouse. Any of the series can work for a claw/palm just find the one that looks nicest to you. I would suggest getting a smaller size, not EC1 or FK1 or ZA11.


----------



## DarkReign32

Thank you for the suggestions. Does it make a difference with those mice if my hand naturally "leans". I've attached pictures to show what I'm talking about.


----------



## s0rry

IDK if those sticky notes show anything important but maybe you should crop those out. Maybe your hand is doing that because the mouse is a little too wide for you to claw grip it. Maybe the FK2 or ZA13 or G203/Gpro would be a good pick. If you can somehow test them out before buying them or I suggest doing that. Or buy one and return it if you don't like it and try the next one.

EDIT: I have 18/9 CM hands, I use a claw/palm grip and I play CS on low sens. I prefer small, light ambidextrous mice. (Just a disclaimer so you know why these are my opinions)
I've tried the FK1, EC2-a and G100s (which is an old version of the G203/Gpro but without the \ / sides curved inward). FK1 was too wide but I loved the weight balance. EC2-a fit my hand like a glove but I didn't like the weight balance (the shape is much like a smaller Deathadder or IME 3.0 and is great for palm grip). G100s was perfect once I adjusted my grip a little, the GPRO/G203 look better for claw though because their sides are slanted inwards like \ /.


----------



## DarkReign32

Thanks for the suggestion. I've cropped them out.









It could be the odd shape of the KPM. I think I'll buy from Amazon and return them if I'm not satisfied. I've gone everywhere locally (Vancouver, Canada) to try out mice but the selection at brick and mortar stores are terrible. I tried out the G903 at staples. Feels great, too bat it's $199.

Saw your edit above. I've tried out the deathadder in store. Other than synapse and it being a bit too large, it's fairly comfy. I've been eyeing up the G203, mainly for the price point. I've also been put onto the nixeus revel and that looks like it could be a good fit too.


----------



## s0rry

Check out the edit to my last post, gives a little more info. Also here's the FK1, EC2-a and G100s side by side. Sorry they are sideways lol.


----------



## DarkReign32

Thanks for the pictures. I think I'll take a look at the G203, FK series and the revel. The shape of the EC may cause some excess strain on my wrist. Thanks a lot for the help.


----------



## zhook

Howdy folks, my G600 is starting its early double click of doom (DCOD) and it's time to get back on the mouse market. I love this mouse's feeling and it's possible I'll just rebuy it but I don't use the number pad at all. I mostly love the tracking, girthiness and the additional right click which I use to function as an Alt key.

That said I'd like to find something similar feeling with only a couple side buttons in place of the full number grid.
My past purchases were 2 deathadders which I loved but they always DCODs faster than any other mice I've owned, Rat7 which was too small and the PTE was garbage, TTEsports Black which was awfully non-egonomic and also had PTE, and G9x which was too small and awkward for my hands and also DCOD premature ( I think it was static at work since I didn't use it much. )

*What's your grip style?*
Palm
*What's your sensitivity?*
Medium, I use acceleration like a heathen. Because of this I don't need on-the-fly adjustment, I just find one DPI I like and sit in it.
*What's your maximum budget?*
$65
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Yes, I need middle mouse, two side buttons and a third button to function as an "ALT"
*What games do you play?*
WOW, planetside 2, overwatch, mostly MMOs and FPS
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Uncertain, probably not.
*Other relevant information:*
Ideally braided cord, cat chews wires. I prefer optical to laser. I have a naturally high LOD so I don't think that's an issue, I prefer light but I don't really care that much.

Really I want something LARGE and heavily contoured like the proteus spectrum or naos. Something I can sink my thumb into to get a good grip and has good pinky purchase.

My current sights are on:
-Sentinel III
-G502 proteus spectrum
-Naos 3200


----------



## DaoNayt

What's your grip style?

Hybrid I guess. I like to keep my palm on the mouse but my fingers are still clawed up. And I don't like mice that are too big.

What's your sensitivity?

Low speed/high sens. I keep my wrist pretty much planted and just move the hand.

What's your maximum budget?

Not very high, looking for entry level gaming mouse. Lets say $30-$40?

Do you want additional buttons?

Thumb buttons are cool.

What games do you play?

FPS is the only reason why I want a gaming mouse otherwise I'd be fine with my $10 Genius









Do you mind about prediction?

No prediction, angle snap, or anything like that please.

Other relevant information:

Been looking at Logitech G300s, also Zalman has some gaming mice that fit my budget, but apparently they use non-gaming sensors like avago 5050. Is that really such a big deal? Also, it is annoying when a mouse doesnt turn off it's LED when the computer is off/standby. I sleep in the same room and the light bothers me because I'm a sensitive snowflake.

TNX


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaoNayt*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style?
> 
> Hybrid I guess. I like to keep my palm on the mouse but my fingers are still clawed up. And I don't like mice that are too big.
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> 
> Low speed/high sens. I keep my wrist pretty much planted and just move the hand.
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> 
> Not very high, looking for entry level gaming mouse. Lets say $30-$40?
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> 
> Thumb buttons are cool.
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> FPS is the only reason why I want a gaming mouse otherwise I'd be fine with my $10 Genius
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mind about prediction?
> 
> No prediction, angle snap, or anything like that please.
> 
> Other relevant information:
> 
> Been looking at Logitech G300s, also Zalman has some gaming mice that fit my budget, but apparently they use non-gaming sensors like avago 5050. Is that really such a big deal? Also, it is annoying when a mouse doesnt turn off it's LED when the computer is off/standby. I sleep in the same room and the light bothers me because I'm a sensitive snowflake.
> 
> TNX


Look no further.

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g203-prodigy-gaming-mouse


----------



## DaoNayt

Huh, for some reason in my country the g203 is a lot more expensive than g300s, and beyond my budget. Same if I order online, due to shipping cost. Guess I should just go with the g300s?
What about the Zalmans?


----------



## kasparas

Hello guys, I have been using kana v2 mouse for 2-3years also i have bought g102 10 months ago it was definitely better sensor, but i didnt like the size of it, it was too small for me so I couldnt make small precise movement when i was playing CSGO. So i switched back to kana and I really enjoy playing with it, but sensor is kinda old. Found that DM1 Pro S/Revel is similar size&shape, but also thinking about ec2-a mostly because a lot of pro's use it, also rival 110, rival 310, sensei 310.




*What's your grip style?*
Relax claw
*What's your sensitivity?*
Low, 400dpi 2sens CSGO and similar in other games
*What's your maximum budget?*
70eur
*Do you want additional buttons?*
No preference
*What games do you play?*
CSGO and Rust mostly
*Do you mind about prediction?*
No prediction


----------



## kasparas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaoNayt*
> 
> Huh, for some reason in my country the g203 is a lot more expensive than g300s, and beyond my budget. Same if I order online, due to shipping cost. Guess I should just go with the g300s?
> What about the Zalmans?


Go for g102 it is the same as g203 just for different markets and it is cheaper, you can easily buy from ebay with free shipping mostly likely.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaoNayt*
> 
> Huh, for some reason in my country the g203 is a lot more expensive than g300s, and beyond my budget. Same if I order online, due to shipping cost. Guess I should just go with the g300s?
> What about the Zalmans?


Yeah, it's region-specific. The G102 is the same thing for where you live.


----------



## DaoNayt

I live in Croatia and it is not sold here but I found it on Ebay with free shipping. I guess I can wait 3-5 weeks


----------



## Avalar

Looking for another mouse that probably doesn't exist lol. Need something that's...

*Sub-100g.*
Big enough to palm grip with my hands, which are 19.5 x 10.5cm. The G403, ZA11, and Sensei 310 are almost too small for me, so anything like size or bigger.
*Good main buttons*. Something at least _close_ to Logitech's. The buttons in the Sensei 310 are great to me, for example.
*3310 sensor or newer*.
_Not the Rival 310_. Already considering that one; maybe I'd prefer the shape over the Sensei 310, but since I already have the Sensei, and the Rival is still $60, I'd rather find out if there's another gem out there that also fits the criteria for less $$.
*Bold* = important


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Looking for another mouse that probably doesn't exist lol. Need something that's...
> 
> *Sub-100g.*
> Big enough to palm grip with my hands, which are 19.5 x 10.5cm. The G403, ZA11, and Sensei 310 are almost too small for me, so anything like size or bigger.
> *Good main buttons*. Something at least _close_ to Logitech's. The buttons in the Sensei 310 are great to me, for example.
> *3310 sensor or newer*.
> _Not the Rival 310_. Already considering that one; maybe I'd prefer the shape over the Sensei 310, but since I already have the Sensei, and the Rival is still $60, I'd rather find out if there's another gem out there that also fits the criteria for less $$.
> *Bold* = important


The DA, but you know that already.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> The DA, but you know that already.


Well I mean, I'd totally give it a chance, if I don't have to RMA 3+ of them in less than a year. T_T


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Looking for another mouse that probably doesn't exist lol. Need something that's...
> 
> *Sub-100g.*
> Big enough to palm grip with my hands, which are 19.5 x 10.5cm. The G403, ZA11, and Sensei 310 are almost too small for me, so anything like size or bigger.
> *Good main buttons*. Something at least _close_ to Logitech's. The buttons in the Sensei 310 are great to me, for example.
> *3310 sensor or newer*.
> _Not the Rival 310_. Already considering that one; maybe I'd prefer the shape over the Sensei 310, but since I already have the Sensei, and the Rival is still $60, I'd rather find out if there's another gem out there that also fits the criteria for less $$.
> *Bold* = important


Have you looked at the mionix naos 7000? Love mine. Best palm grip design literally ever.

And it has the 3310

It does weigh a bit more but not heavy


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> Have you looked at the mionix naos 7000? Love mine. Best palm grip design literally ever.
> 
> And it has the 3310
> 
> It does weigh a bit more but not heavy


I would thoroughly research that mouse. Mine may have been the exception but I can provide a little feedback on it.

first 3 months were awesome, mouse was responsive and exactly what I had hoped. Right around the 3 month mark I lost tracking while moving in a diagonal downward movement. (Noticed during CSGO and mouse started stuttering like it was dirty). I tried cleaning it and that didn't work. I managed to get another two months out of it after adjusting my play style to not need that particular movement. Sensor then stopped tracking in various other directions. It started out randomly but kept progressing until it got to the point of not being usable.

I did love the mouse while it was working. The only other one I found that was as comfortable was the SS Rival 300.

To give an idea of hand size my fingers are long enough they still overlapped the Naos 7000 while palming it.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Well I mean, I'd totally give it a chance, if I don't have to RMA 3+ of them in less than a year. T_T


Yeah that stinks, but it does tick your boxes. Unless you want true 1-to-1 lacking.


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*
> 
> I would thoroughly research that mouse. Mine may have been the exception but I can provide a little feedback on it.
> 
> first 3 months were awesome, mouse was responsive and exactly what I had hoped. Right around the 3 month mark I lost tracking while moving in a diagonal downward movement. (Noticed during CSGO and mouse started stuttering like it was dirty). I tried cleaning it and that didn't work. I managed to get another two months out of it after adjusting my play style to not need that particular movement. Sensor then stopped tracking in various other directions. It started out randomly but kept progressing until it got to the point of not being usable.
> 
> I did love the mouse while it was working. The only other one I found that was as comfortable was the SS Rival 300.
> 
> To give an idea of hand size my fingers are long enough they still overlapped the Naos 7000 while palming it.


Did you try changing the mouse feet? I did it on my after a few months and it made its movement smooth like new.

Also Mionix released updated firmware for the mouse that did help with tracking.

I tried the rival but didn't find it to be wide enough. The Mionix has the nifty finger grooves on the right side.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> Did you try changing the mouse feet? I did it on my after a few months and it made its movement smooth like new.
> 
> Also Mionix released updated firmware for the mouse that did help with tracking.
> 
> I tried the rival but didn't find it to be wide enough. The Mionix has the nifty finger grooves on the right side.


Hmm maybe I'll give it another go. As far as the sensor. I did make sure it was not just something else. It was tested across multiple surfaces and pads. All had the same exact issues. Sensor was cleaned thoroughly along with feet. I'm actually in market for new mouse because my third SS just broke on me. I seem to have luck of about six months until one of main click buttons break. This one was the left mouse stopped working (single tap would result in entire AK clip firing) during a match in CS GO. It was also randomly registering button presses that didn't actually happen lol.

As far as hold the SS I had to hold semi sideways and play that way to be comfy with it.

Sorry for mistakes on phone at work.

Now that I'm out of work.

I picked up a Cyborg R.A.T 3 and so far liking the feel of it. I've extended the palm rest out and it's pretty comfy and sits my heel up off the tabletop. Only issue atm is finding the software.


----------



## MKUL7R4

What's your grip style? Fingertip

What's your sensitivity? 2000 DPI

What's your maximum budget? $60 or less

Do you want additional buttons? Don't care about side/extra buttons

What games do you play? Dota 2, Divinity Original Sin 2, Dota 2

Do you mind about prediction? Probably don't want that

Other relevant information:
I want a comfortable, light ergonomic mouse with a good sensor and crispy clicks. I don't care about extra buttons or features. The CM Storm Xornet was my favorite shape I've ever used. Right now I'm on a Logitech G502. It's comfy too but a little too long and skinny, and way too heavy.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions! Thanks!!


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> What's your grip style? Fingertip
> 
> What's your sensitivity? 2000 DPI
> 
> What's your maximum budget? $60 or less
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? Don't care about side/extra buttons
> 
> What games do you play? Dota 2, Divinity Original Sin 2, Dota 2
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? Probably don't want that
> 
> Other relevant information:
> I want a comfortable, light ergonomic mouse with a good sensor and crispy clicks. I don't care about extra buttons or features. The CM Storm Xornet was my favorite shape I've ever used. Right now I'm on a Logitech G502. It's comfy too but a little too long and skinny, and way too heavy.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate any suggestions! Thanks!!


Gotchu, fam.

Buy a lot of 20 WMO from ebay and buy a Ninox Aurora. Put Aurora's internals inside the WMO.

Best fingertip mouse ever.

The G400 is also pretty good for fingertip.


----------



## glalaxen

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? Don't have any. Like most of you guys, I have spent way to much on mice searching for the perfect one.
Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons would be great.
What games do you play? Mostly RTS and FPS games like StarCraft, Battlefield, PUBG.
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, would rather not have any.
Other relevant information:
After tried alot of different mice i tend to lean towards the ergo mice due to comfort. Would like as light of a mice as possible, aroung 90g would be good. At the moment I'm using the G403 from Logitech which is close to perfect, but in a perfect world it would be a little smaller.
Been looking at the Zowie EC2-A, but the shape is not as good as the 403 and way to slippery in my opinion.

So therefor I come to you guys in hope that someone has any suggestions.


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glalaxen*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? Don't have any. Like most of you guys, I have spent way to much on mice searching for the perfect one.
> Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons would be great.
> What games do you play? Mostly RTS and FPS games like StarCraft, Battlefield, PUBG.
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, would rather not have any.
> Other relevant information:
> After tried alot of different mice i tend to lean towards the ergo mice due to comfort. Would like as light of a mice as possible, aroung 90g would be good. At the moment I'm using the G403 from Logitech which is close to perfect, but in a perfect world it would be a little smaller.
> Been looking at the Zowie EC2-A, but the shape is not as good as the 403 and way to slippery in my opinion.
> 
> So therefor I come to you guys in hope that someone has any suggestions.


Gotchu, fam.

Roccat Kone, or if you don't mind the weight, G400/G400s.


----------



## glalaxen

Thanks for the tips. Not too fond of the 400/400s shape, and the Roccat Kone isn't that much smaller then the 403? A little bit wider, but shorter and lower? My biggest problem with the 403 is the width. Any other tips?


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glalaxen*
> 
> Thanks for the tips. Not too fond of the 400/400s shape, and the Roccat Kone isn't that much smaller then the 403? A little bit wider, but shorter and lower? My biggest problem with the 403 is the width. Any other tips?


I don't have a G403 I could compare my KP to. But yes, it's a bit smaller, even smaller than ec2.

The thumb rest may be annoying, tho. It's like a smaller and lighter version of the G400.

There's no other mouse that comes to my mind, really. Maybe the G9x with the wide shell.

There's no many small ergonomic mice.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glalaxen*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
> What's your maximum budget? Don't have any. Like most of you guys, I have spent way to much on mice searching for the perfect one.
> Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons would be great.
> What games do you play? Mostly RTS and FPS games like StarCraft, Battlefield, PUBG.
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, would rather not have any.
> Other relevant information:
> After tried alot of different mice i tend to lean towards the ergo mice due to comfort. Would like as light of a mice as possible, aroung 90g would be good. At the moment I'm using the G403 from Logitech which is close to perfect, but in a perfect world it would be a little smaller.
> Been looking at the Zowie EC2-A, but the shape is not as good as the 403 and way to slippery in my opinion.
> 
> So therefor I come to you guys in hope that someone has any suggestions.


while the grip isn't perfect, but the new Cooler Master MM530 is actually slightly bigger than EC2-A.
you can remove the rubber sides and replace with something more grippy, which I plan to do if I can find something comfy that lasts a while.


----------



## Robilar

Use grip tape. The stuff is fantastic on mice


----------



## Wolfeshaman

Little bit of an update.

After two Steelseries Rivals having the main mouse buttons dying. I decided to move on from that company. I had bought a Cyborg R.A.T 3 but it ended up not being as comfortable as I thought.

Seeing as I didn't want to spend another 50$ and get less than a year out of a mouse I started researching. I know most people are not fans of Razer products but I ended up deciding on a Death Adder Elite. Similar dimensions to the Rival is what decided it.

I'm not going to review it on the suggestion thread but give some of my opinions.

I play CSGO on 800 dpi and 0.80 sens. This mouse has the first default step as 800. This was a bonus as it also meant I didn't need to install synapse.
So far the sensor is what they claim by what I see and feel. Build wise this mouse feels really solid. The SS didn't feel cheap but felt incredibly light.

As much as I see people ragging on these mice. I would suggest at the moment that for this particular model people give it a shot.

On a side note. The main buttons are so much mechanical clicky goodness.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Looking for another mouse that probably doesn't exist lol. Need something that's...
> 
> *Sub-100g.*
> Big enough to palm grip with my hands, which are 19.5 x 10.5cm. The G403, ZA11, and Sensei 310 are almost too small for me, so anything like size or bigger.
> *Good main buttons*. Something at least _close_ to Logitech's. The buttons in the Sensei 310 are great to me, for example.
> *3310 sensor or newer*.
> _Not the Rival 310_. Already considering that one; maybe I'd prefer the shape over the Sensei 310, but since I already have the Sensei, and the Rival is still $60, I'd rather find out if there's another gem out there that also fits the criteria for less $$.
> *Bold* = important


my hands are a bit narrower than yours but same length... so,

the TT eSports Ventus X RGB Optical with Japanese Omron D2F-01F is really not bad. clicks aren't good at all without the mod though so be warned. I think any mouse with D2F-01F gets infinitely better tbh. I wish I could put them in all my mice safely.

it's sub100g, 3360, pretty phat. though I still more or less fingertip it, but I can palm it without any real issues. I don't find palm comfortable with any mouse but it's one of the most comfortable to palm for me








cable is meh but there's always paracord.
side grips could be better. I'd swap them out if I plan to mod it anyway.


----------



## rendyG

Hey guys, I´m ex cs player (3000+ hrs), nowadays I play mostly OW. Hands 21x11cm, hybrid palm grip, cca 35cm/360.
_// had MX518 (angle snapping), WMO (perfect sensor but that malfunction speed and pixel skipping in ow :/ ), ZA11 (shape was great except that hump, sold when i found out about that y-axis latency), tried G403 (couldn´t grip it properly)_

and now i have G203 - unfortunately too small for me, sensor perfect except when microadjusting... I just can´t hit easy shots when flick is not required, but usually when I don´t flick, I miss, so I sorta have to micro-flick every time







From what i understand, I think this could be because of the variable framerate of mercury sensor, which is low for low speeds afaik...
*I´m looking for a new mouse, my main concern is the sensor performance especially in microadjustments and tracking.
I would appreciate if you could help me narrow down my choices* between 336x versions (SS 310, Gladius, Ventus, DA, cm MM530 or Pro L) or even between the old 3388 in XM300 if it works.. then there is a possibility to go back to 3310 (ec1a/fk1+) and just enjoy the shape and don´t care about less responsive sensor. I´m planning to order more mice and choose the one, but I cannot try them all, I don´t want to annoy the resellers when returning 10 mice







So ideally I would like to have like 4 mice with "perfect" sensor performance so I could just focus on choosing the shape which suits me









I read that many people find 3366 to struggle in micromovents in comparison to 3389, which is weird, coz I thougt that 336x will be the same.
So my question is which models from what I´ve mentioned above should I consider if I don´t want any more problems with microadjustments, anyone compared steelseries implementation against razer or other versions? If there are people which actually have various 336x mice and I know there are some, I would love to hear from them, thank you


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rendyG*
> 
> Hey guys, I´m ex cs player (3000+ hrs), nowadays I play mostly OW. Hands 21x11cm, hybrid palm grip, cca 35cm/360.
> _// had MX518 (angle snapping), WMO (perfect sensor but that malfunction speed and pixel skipping in ow :/ ), ZA11 (shape was great except that hump, sold when i found out about that y-axis latency), tried G403 (couldn´t grip it properly)_
> 
> and now i have G203 - unfortunately too small for me, sensor perfect except when microadjusting... I just can´t hit easy shots when flick is not required, but usually when I don´t flick, I miss, so I sorta have to micro-flick every time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what i understand, I think this could be because of the variable framerate of mercury sensor, which is low for low speeds afaik...
> *I´m looking for a new mouse, my main concern is the sensor performance especially in microadjustments and tracking.
> I would appreciate if you could help me narrow down my choices* between 336x versions (SS 310, Gladius, Ventus, DA, cm MM530 or Pro L) or even between the old 3388 in XM300 if it works.. then there is a possibility to go back to 3310 (ec1a/fk1+) and just enjoy the shape and don´t care about less responsive sensor. I´m planning to order more mice and choose the one, but I cannot try them all, I don´t want to annoy the resellers when returning 10 mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So ideally I would like to have like 4 mice with "perfect" sensor performance so I could just focus on choosing the shape which suits me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read that many people find 3366 to struggle in micromovents in comparison to 3389, which is weird, coz I thougt that 336x will be the same.
> So my question is which models from what I´ve mentioned above should I consider if I don´t want any more problems with microadjustments, anyone compared steelseries implementation against razer or other versions? If there are people which actually have various 336x mice and I know there are some, I would love to hear from them, thank you


I'm not really convinced it's the sensor itself in many of these cases... sensor position and mousepad made a lot bigger difference to me. I don't use a super high sensitivity though so it could differ I suppose.
but testing the G203 vs MM530 vs G403 vs G Pro (the 4 mice I currently have out right now







) I can do microadjustments at 800dpi really well. all are equipped with Hyperglides of varying kinds.

then again I don't know how OW mouse input is compared to CS: GO which is what I tried these with.

but basically it was able to detect any microadjustments I made, and fingertip grip tracking was not an issue at all, on either of the mice.








mousepads that feel sticky just physically make it hard to move the mouse very small positions, and crosshair movement as a result becomes super choppy.

it kinda seems obvious but some people just never provide anything but 'feel' opinions and it always is just confusing to read since it contradicts everything people test.


----------



## Avalar

Yeah, OW is way laggier than CS:GO, too. And with OW and a 3360 sensor, you wanna play on a higher DPI and lower ingame sens. It's 1:1 in the game, so you don't have to worry about any weird conversions.


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rendyG*
> 
> Hey guys, I´m ex cs player (3000+ hrs), nowadays I play mostly OW. Hands 21x11cm, hybrid palm grip, cca 35cm/360.
> _// had MX518 (angle snapping), WMO (perfect sensor but that malfunction speed and pixel skipping in ow :/ ), ZA11 (shape was great except that hump, sold when i found out about that y-axis latency), tried G403 (couldn´t grip it properly)_
> 
> and now i have G203 - unfortunately too small for me, sensor perfect except when microadjusting... I just can´t hit easy shots when flick is not required, but usually when I don´t flick, I miss, so I sorta have to micro-flick every time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what i understand, I think this could be because of the variable framerate of mercury sensor, which is low for low speeds afaik...
> *I´m looking for a new mouse, my main concern is the sensor performance especially in microadjustments and tracking.
> I would appreciate if you could help me narrow down my choices* between 336x versions (SS 310, Gladius, Ventus, DA, cm MM530 or Pro L) or even between the old 3388 in XM300 if it works.. then there is a possibility to go back to 3310 (ec1a/fk1+) and just enjoy the shape and don´t care about less responsive sensor. I´m planning to order more mice and choose the one, but I cannot try them all, I don´t want to annoy the resellers when returning 10 mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So ideally I would like to have like 4 mice with "perfect" sensor performance so I could just focus on choosing the shape which suits me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read that many people find 3366 to struggle in micromovents in comparison to 3389, which is weird, coz I thougt that 336x will be the same.
> So my question is which models from what I´ve mentioned above should I consider if I don´t want any more problems with microadjustments, anyone compared steelseries implementation against razer or other versions? If there are people which actually have various 336x mice and I know there are some, I would love to hear from them, thank you


Just get a G400s, dude. It's fine and I'm still using an old G400 I bought like 6 years ago, and I stocked up on G400's and G400s'.

And I know what you mean with microadjustments. Laser sensors are the most snappy and responsive in that regard. The G9x is one of my favorites because of that, and how easy it's to move it around, and how responsive and raw it feels, even when moving it pretty slowly.

Another one would be the Deathadder 3.5G; it has the best sensor I've ever tried. Most mice seem to have 'deadzones' when moving them slowly, but the DA3.5G doesn't.

The G400s is fine too. I'd place the DA3.5G, G9x and G400s as the best mice around. Super nice build quality; best feeling sensors, and long-lasting.

Also. Paradoks used to play with a G400 at 800 dpi, with a super crazy high sensitivity. Something like 3inch/360. You really can't go lower than that.


----------



## rendyG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I'm not really convinced it's the sensor itself in many of these cases... sensor position and mousepad made a lot bigger difference to me. I don't use a super high sensitivity though so it could differ I suppose.
> but testing the G203 vs MM530 vs G403 vs G Pro (the 4 mice I currently have out right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I can do microadjustments at 800dpi really well. all are equipped with Hyperglides of varying kinds.


glides, pad, sensor position for sure play a huge role, but many people here talking about some 336x performing better/worse than other 336x, I know most of the time it is subjective "feeling", but those differences are usually so small and difficult to measure to prove. Also I don´t consider myself being able to spot every tiny difference in sensor performance, but some behavior is just obvious, even though not at the first glance, maybe after week of playing.. There are people that have much more experience in gaming and I like to hear their impressions, many times it can save us valuable time trying to spot the differences ourselves.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Yeah, OW is way laggier than CS:GO, too. And with OW and a 3360 sensor, you wanna play on a higher DPI and lower ingame sens. It's 1:1 in the game, so you don't have to worry about any weird conversions.


You are right, OW mouse input is bad, especially if you have to cap your fps at 100 to be stable like me







OW sends mouse input only every fps I believe, which is in my case 10ms, feelsbadman...
But of course i was comparing mice in csgo or different desktop mice test with not that bad input lag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Just get a G400s, dude. It's fine and I'm still using an old G400 I bought like 6 years ago, and I stocked up on G400's and G400s'.
> 
> And I know what you mean with microadjustments. Laser sensors are the most snappy and responsive in that regard. The G9x is one of my favorites because of that, and how easy it's to move it around, and how responsive and raw it feels, even when moving it pretty slowly.
> 
> Another one would be the Deathadder 3.5G; it has the best sensor I've ever tried. Most mice seem to have 'deadzones' when moving them slowly, but the DA3.5G doesn't.
> 
> The G400s is fine too. I'd place the DA3.5G, G9x and G400s as the best mice around. Super nice build quality; best feeling sensors, and long-lasting.


mx500 shape.. not anymore please, it´s not bad but there are better options for my taste
laser, no, i tried friends g9x, just no

And here it is again, you are saying that DA 3.5G had the "best" sensor, it has 3988 right? And there were more DA models which had different implementation/firmware or whatever which made them arguably worse (maybe that deadzone thing is why I feel bad microadjustments). Isn´t it similar today when we have dozens of 336x based mice and some of them may just be superior?


----------



## Avalar

Yeah, kinda sucks for me lol. I've heard that even a steady 300fps, which is as high as the cap goes in the game, still doesn't put the milliseconds of input lag lower than most FPS games. I wouldn't know, though. What I usually get ranges from 150-200fps. I need to stop buying mice and get a new GPU lmao.


----------



## phazer11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phazer11*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> 
> A mixture between fingertip and claw most of the time with occasional palm grip.
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> 
> I usually set my Naga Epic between 1800-3000 DPI
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> Maximum budget is probably around $80 my comfort zone is $50
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> I don't use the additional buttons that often but they do sometimes come in handy.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> 
> I play MOBA's like League of Legends, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Bioshock Series on occasion, Starcraft II online, along with several other types.
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> Prediction might help some in other situations other than gaming so it might be a bonus.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> I do a lot of programming, video editing, photo editing and such apart from gaming. This is for a laptop as well. I was doing well with my Logitech V450 and never really noticed any lag on it. I have a Razer Naga Epic but the cord is a bit long for the laptop usage.


So in need of another mouse again, lost my G700s and my G402 Hyperion Fury's cable sheething got messed up. My naga epic is somehow still alive, though it's been dropped a million times and the cord is frayed as all get out so might need a new one for there too.

Loved my G402, except the cord kept getting caught on things since it was sort of long for my laptop which is normally on a slide able tray so it often got caught underneath the tray as it was slid out (despite trying Velcro, twist ties and some other things). Been using the G700s (mostly wirelessly though the battery life sucks) as a decent alternative


----------



## Gech

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? In Cs go I play 800 dpi and sensitivity 1.1 (and on Overwatch i have converted that sens)
What's your maximum budget? 40-60 Euro
Do you want additional buttons? I would prefer a mouse with 2 side buttons
What games do you play? Overwatch, Cs go, Pubg

Edit: my hand measures are 18.5-19 x 10 cm.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gech*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? In Cs go I play 800 dpi and sensitivity 1.1 (and on Overwatch i have converted that sens)
> What's your maximum budget? 40-60 Euro
> Do you want additional buttons? I would prefer a mouse with 2 side buttons
> What games do you play? Overwatch, Cs go, Pubg
> 
> Edit: my hand measures are 18.5-19 x 10 cm.


Logitech G203 or G pro. G203 seems better because of the cable.
Ninox venator, Zowie FK2, ZA12, ZA13, EC2-a, Logitech G303, Steelseries Rival 110 and Steelseries Kana (v2 best version) are some other options. Each have different types of shapes and materials. All of those have great sensors too.


----------



## bellofes

Hi guys, my name is Marco. I'm Italian and i don't speak much english. Can someone help me?

- Budget: not over 50€ if possible
- Medium sized hand
- Any grip
- Any sensitivity range
- Min. 7 buttons
- Possibility to set angle snapping, acceleration and deceleration
- Possibly 1000 polling rates


----------



## bubul72

What's your grip style? Claw.
What's your sensitivity? ~30cm / 360°
What's your maximum budget? ~£50
Do you want additional buttons? Preferably no side buttons, Or maybe only on the left side (I'm right handed).
What games do you play? Really only UT99. (Yesh, I know)
Do you mind about prediction? Yes, Must have none or at very least, very minimal prediction.

I have a used / purchased a lot of the older mice especially Logitechs but haven't bought any mice in last few years. Have used MX300, MX310, G1, G3, G9, Zowie Miico, LMO, CM Spawn (hated it), Razer Krait.
Preference for small, slimline, ambidextrous mice with weight of ~80-90grams.
Number one priority is the shape. Second, the sensor, and third, the buttons.
Top 3 shapes I have tried : 1. Logitech MX310 2. Logitech M-UAE96 / BZ96C (slimline Logi office mice) 3. Zowie Mico /LMO

I didn't really feel comfortable with the G1/G3 as I felt it was slightly too wide/bulky. MX310 feels smaller than G1/G3 due to the indented sides.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bubul72*
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw.
> What's your sensitivity? ~30cm / 360°
> What's your maximum budget? ~£50
> Do you want additional buttons? Preferably no side buttons, Or maybe only on the left side (I'm right handed).
> What games do you play? Really only UT99. (Yesh, I know)
> Do you mind about prediction? Yes, Must have none or at very least, very minimal prediction.
> 
> I have a used / purchased a lot of the older mice especially Logitechs but haven't bought any mice in last few years. Have used MX300, MX310, G1, G3, G9, Zowie Miico, LMO, CM Spawn (hated it), Razer Krait.
> Preference for small, slimline, ambidextrous mice with weight of ~80-90grams.
> Number one priority is the shape. Second, the sensor, and third, the buttons.
> Top 3 shapes I have tried : 1. Logitech MX310 2. Logitech M-UAE96 / BZ96C (slimline Logi office mice) 3. Zowie Mico /LMO
> 
> I didn't really feel comfortable with the G1/G3 as I felt it was slightly too wide/bulky. MX310 feels smaller than G1/G3 due to the indented sides.


The MX310 really has no successor tbh. I'd take a look at the SkyDigital NKEY 007 and Zalman ZM-M600R.


----------



## bubul72

Yeah, I know (unfortunately). If Logitech put their best sensor into the MX310 shell it would be the perfect mouse for me.
Is the G Pro closer in shape to the MX300/G1/G3 or to the M-UAE96/M-BZ96C office mice?


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bellofes*
> 
> Hi guys, my name is Marco. I'm Italian and i don't speak much english. Can someone help me?
> 
> - Budget: not over 50€ if possible
> - Medium sized hand
> - Any grip
> - Any sensitivity range
> - Min. 7 buttons
> - Possibility to set angle snapping, acceleration and deceleration
> - Possibly 1000 polling rates


I'd send you an Amazon link for the Logitech G502, which is $58 at the moment in the US, but I'm not sure the price would be the same for you. It meets your button requirements, size and shape requirements, 1000Hz, and still is one of the most popular gaming mice in general, albeit heavy. You can't customize the amount of acceleration, though. For that, you'll need third-party software.

https://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-spectrum-rgb-gaming-mouse


----------



## bellofes

thanks you but something a little bit less expensive? (g502 70€)


----------



## bellofes

ignoring the price, what do you think about Steelseries Rival 300 and Mionix Naos 8200?


----------



## phazer11

1. What's your grip style?

A mixture between fingertip and claw most of the time with occasional palm grip.

2. What's your sensitivity?

I usually set my Naga Epic between 1800-3000 DPI

3. What's your maximum budget?
Maximum budget is probably around $80 my comfort zone is $50

4. Do you want additional buttons?
I don't use the additional buttons that often but they do sometimes come in handy.

5. What games do you play?

I play MOBA's like League of Legends, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Bioshock Series on occasion, Starcraft II online, along with several other types.

6. Do you mind about prediction?
Prediction might help some in other situations other than gaming so it might be a bonus.

7. Other relevant information:
I do a lot of programming, video editing, photo editing and such apart from gaming. This is for a laptop as well.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *phazer11*
> 
> My Naga Epic is somehow still alive (7 years and counting), though it's been dropped a million times and the cord is frayed as all get out so might need a new one for there too.
> 
> Loved my G402, except the cord kept getting caught on things since it was sort of long for my laptop which is normally on a slide able tray so it often got caught underneath the tray as it was slid out (despite trying Velcro, twist ties and some other things). Been using the G700s (mostly wirelessly though the battery life sucks) as a decent alternative


----------



## paparatsio

Hi everyone from Ukraine. I have a little issue with choosing a mouse for cs go. At the moment I use ac2a it’s good mouse all over but she was not feet my grip for a 100%. Today in local market I was try ss rival 100 and she was just built for my grip. But lod is way to big for me. Do you know does they fix this issue in 110 model? Or if it’s possible can you recommend me a better mouse in same shape/size. Budget is 100 usd


----------



## StormFalcon32

1. What's your grip style?
Palm Grip

2. What's your sensitivity?
60 cm/360

3. What's your maximum budget?
Doesn't matter

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Yes lots of them

5. What games do you play?
Exclusively Rainbow Six Siege (tactical fps)

6. Do you mind about prediction?
I don't want any prediction, smoothing, or acceleration

7. Other relevant information:
The shape, sensor, and buttons of the G502 are perfect for me. The one issue I have is that it's too heavy. Essentially, I want a G502 under 100g. Can such a thing be bought, or would I be better off turning my beloved mouse into a frankenmouse?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paparatsio*
> 
> Hi everyone from Ukraine. I have a little issue with choosing a mouse for cs go. At the moment I use ac2a it's good mouse all over but she was not feet my grip for a 100%. Today in local market I was try ss rival 100 and she was just built for my grip. But lod is way to big for me. Do you know does they fix this issue in 110 model? Or if it's possible can you recommend me a better mouse in same shape/size. Budget is 100 usd


should be lower in 110, but apparently still on the higher side.

maybe check out TT eSports Ventus R. 3310 sensor, LOD is very rarely bad on those, and I think adjustable in software even.


----------



## dohnjenver

What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
What's your sensitivity? *~2,00, 400 DPI, Win 6/11*
What's your maximum budget? *100 €*
Do you want additional buttons? *Just 2 side buttons on the left side*
What games do you play? *Mainly CS:GO*
Do you mind about prediction? *Off, please*
Other relevant information:
*I've tested numerous mice in the last few weeks and all of them had a ****ty scroll wheel --> Deathadder Elite, Zowie EC2-A, Logitech G Pro, Logitech G403, SteelSeries Rival 310, Cooler Master MM530.
Accidental scrolling occurred when pressing MOUSE3 and also unwanted weapon switches (more than one notch). I don't have this problem with older mice like the MX518, G400s, Xai, Sensei or IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0.
Can you guys recommend me something relatively new with the following specifications? Top optical sensor, weight <105g, shape for right hands (or ambi), wired, AWESOME SCROLL WHEEL for optimal and accurate weapon switching, good quality... Thanks!*


----------



## NEXOFX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dohnjenver*
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? *Fingertip*
> What's your sensitivity? *~2,00, 400 DPI, Win 6/11*
> What's your maximum budget? *100 €*
> Do you want additional buttons? *Just 2 side buttons on the left side*
> What games do you play? *Mainly CS:GO*
> Do you mind about prediction? *Off, please*
> Other relevant information:
> *I've tested numerous mice in the last few weeks and all of them had a ****ty scroll wheel --> Deathadder Elite, Zowie EC2-A, Logitech G Pro, Logitech G403, SteelSeries Rival 310, Cooler Master MM530.
> Accidental scrolling occurred when pressing MOUSE3 and also unwanted weapon switches (more than one notch). I don't have this problem with older mice like the MX518, G400s, Xai, Sensei or IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0.
> Can you guys recommend me something relatively new with the following specifications? Top optical sensor, weight <105g, shape for right hands (or ambi), wired, AWESOME SCROLL WHEEL for optimal and accurate weapon switching, good quality... Thanks!*


Roccat kone pure owl eye.


----------



## twerk

Logitech G403 vs G603 vs G703?

I know I like the shape but I'm having a hard time picking between them. I'm not too keen on the fact that the G603 uses AA batteries, this makes it heavier but I do like the look of it (simple).

Is there any difference between the G403 and G703 apart from the wireless charging? The G403 is currently £18 cheaper but I've seen issues reported around QC.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Logitech G403 vs G603 vs G703?
> 
> I know I like the shape but I'm having a hard time picking between them. I'm not too keen on the fact that the G603 uses AA batteries, this makes it heavier but I do like the look of it (simple).
> 
> Is there any difference between the G403 and G703 apart from the wireless charging? The G403 is currently £18 cheaper but I've seen issues reported around QC.


QC issues should be sorted, I've only experienced flawless G403s after the first batch.

no other differences, other than that G703 comes in a white version.

G603 can be around 100g if you use AAA adapter and only 1x AAA battery though. it should have better battery life than the G403/G703 even so.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> QC issues should be sorted, I've only experienced flawless G403s after the first batch.
> 
> no other differences, other than that G703 comes in a white version.
> 
> G603 can be around 100g if you use AAA adapter and only 1x AAA battery though. it should have better battery life than the G403/G703 even so.


Thanks.

So it's between the G403 and G603 now... I prefer the look of the G603. Any other differences apart from battery?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> So it's between the G403 and G603 now... I prefer the look of the G603. Any other differences apart from battery?


well, the way the buttons are designed will affect button feel. the G403 should require less force due to having lower tension from shell. since the buttons are separate. or perhaps more that there is less pre-travel of the shell to activate the mouse switches.

and it will also probably have a slightly different weight balance because of the battery design.


----------



## lightsout

Never mind I made a decision.


----------



## Razhad

store around me have sale for razer deathadder chroma for just a mere $30~ish
is it good? currently using g102 and looking for palm grip mouse since this mouse is **** for my grip.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razhad*
> 
> store around me have sale for razer deathadder chroma for just a mere $30~ish
> is it good? currently using g102 and looking for palm grip mouse since this mouse is **** for my grip.


good


----------



## 0mega1Spawn

I have the G203 and G900. I don't really like the way the sides slope inwards and find it is a bit to short, and the G900 is to big and heavy for my liking but I prefer its overall shape minus the front buttons being a bit awkward.

Is there any mice with the overall shape of the G900 but smaller and lighter.


----------



## BreakDown

Im interested in a new mouse, i currently own a Logitech g700s and im looking for an alternative for it.



The number one thing im looking for in a mouse is that it has many buttons, the g700s has 8 extra buttons. Im looking for something similar but that its not one of the MMO style ones with a numpad on the side.

I would really appreciate if it was also wireless but thats not a must.

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 550 DPI
What's your maximum budget? 120€
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, as many as possible, but not all cramped up on the same place.
What games do you play? Anything really.
Do you mind about prediction? Off.
Other relevant information: A nice mouse wheel with side to side scrolling and a robust software that allows me to change every input would be excellent.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BreakDown*
> 
> Im interested in a new mouse, i currently own a Logitech g700s and im looking for an alternative for it.
> 
> 
> 
> The number one thing im looking for in a mouse is that it has many buttons, the g700s has 8 extra buttons. Im looking for something similar but that its not one of the MMO style ones with a numpad on the side.
> 
> I would really appreciate if it was also wireless but thats not a must.
> 
> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 550 DPI
> What's your maximum budget? 120€
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, as many as possible, but not all cramped up on the same place.
> What games do you play? Anything really.
> Do you mind about prediction? Off.
> Other relevant information: A nice mouse wheel with side to side scrolling and a robust software that allows me to change every input would be excellent.




https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-spectrum-rgb-gaming-mouse


----------



## showtime123

Hi all! I have been researching mice for some time and have went through quite a few in my counter-strike career over the last 13 years. Previous mice include: SS Sensei, Ikari, Rival; Logitech MX518, G9, G303; Razer Deathadder (2006), Copperhead; Zowie EC2-A, EC1-A. I am curently using the Zowie EC1-A.

I have been looking at a lot of different mice and have been doing a fair amount of research on current sensors in the market. I believe the EC1-A I'm using is utilizing the 3310 and everyone has clamored about the 3366/3360 (isn't there tweaking on the Logitech 3366 that makes it different than a generic 3360?). I am unsure about the newer sensors like the one in the Razer DA Elite (PMW3389) in terms of if they are as good or better than the 3366. The mice I had been looking at were the: Zowie FK1+ (3310 so dont want as much), Logitech G Pro (too small), and the Razer Deathadder Elite (issues?)0, but I am open to any suggestions from companies that have at least decent build quality. I am by no means an expert so I appreciate the help - multiple replies are also appreciated!

Hand size: 19cm x ~10cm

What's your grip style?
Weird palm grip. The base of my thumb is usually around the center-back of the mouse and I sort of "cup" it between by thumb and index finger, with the rest of my palm laying on the mouse and falling off the side.

What's your sensitivity?
400dpi 2.0 sens in CS:GO

What's your maximum budget?
Any

Do you want additional buttons?
No, but not a deal-breaker.

What games do you play?
CS:GO, PUBG

Do you mind about prediction?
No prediction or accel please.

Other relevant information:
I prefer ambidextrous shape due to my odd grip, but not a deal-breaker. *The sensor is my main concern.*

THANK YOU!


----------



## s0rry

What mouse should I get next? I'm looking for something small and with the sides slanted inwards like the G303 (preferably ambidextrous shape). I have 18/9.5 CM hands.
I'm not picky about sensors, I prefer optical, but anything that tracks well is good for me as long as it doesn't have angle snapping (I play CS with 2.2, 400 dpi).
I prefer rubberized or glossy coating, preferably not plastic but it's not a big deal.
Over all, I am not very picky about the buttons (I don't need extra buttons but they are preferred), scroll wheel, cable, coating, etc - I just want a decent sensor and low weight with the right shape.
Here are the current Mice that I am looking at: Zowie FK2 white, Zowie ZA13 white, EVGA torq X5, CM storm Recon, Steelseries Kana V1 or V2, Ninox aurora, Ninox venator, TT esports Ventus R, Corsair Katar.
These Mice I already own: Logitech G100s, Logitech G303 (debraided







), Logitech G502, Logitech MX518, Microsoft WMO 1.1a (black), Razer Abyssus, Razer Deathadder 3G, Razer Deathadder 3.5G, Steelseries Kinzu V1, Steelseries Rival 300, Zowie EC2-a, Zowie FK1
Mainly I just want opinions on the mice I'm looking at and suggestions for other mice that I might like.


----------



## Nawafwabs

I want small mouse with laser sensor


----------



## senileoldman

You all should try the G400s at least once in your lifetimes.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> I want small mouse with laser sensor


No, you don't.


----------



## LoadSounds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> You all should try the G400s at least once in your lifetimes.


Bought one new from Amazon. It had the most smoothing I've ever felt.

Normally I disregard sensor smoothing accusations, like with the 3310, but going from 336X to the G400S was just too much.
Hopefully it's just the SROM they used, as my G400 is in the post.


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoadSounds*
> 
> Bought one new from Amazon. It had the most smoothing I've ever felt.
> 
> Normally I disregard sensor smoothing accusations, like with the 3310, but going from 336X to the G400S was just too much.
> Hopefully it's just the SROM they used, as my G400 is in the post.


What do you mean by smoothing? Donkey cursor?

Yeah. I think I got some of that.


----------



## munchzilla

while I do really enjoy using my Ninox Venator Black, I am getting cramps from squeezing my hand a bit hard as it is a bit narrow.









are there any mouse that are similar, maybe a tad less tall, but wider - that don't have a 3310 or worse sensor (I lift my mouse a lot and the 3310 freaks out on me), or a bad scroll wheel, or stiff shell/buttons.

I really like the G403 shape but it's so damn tall, kills my wrist after gaming a while - I more or less fingertip grip it, so I have my wrist bent backwards too much.

can't stand mice that have too wide backs, as I don't like curling my thumb or pinky when gripping my mouse.

I really wish Zowie wheels/clicks didn't suck, the ZA11 is a rather nice shape for me.


----------



## abso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> while I do really enjoy using my Ninox Venator Black, I am getting cramps from squeezing my hand a bit hard as it is a bit narrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are there any mouse that are similar, maybe a tad less tall, but wider - that don't have a 3310 or worse sensor (I lift my mouse a lot and the 3310 freaks out on me), or a ad scroll wheel, or stiff shell/buttons.
> 
> I really like the G403 shape but it's so damn tall, kills my wrist after gaming a while - I more or less fingertip grip it, so I have my wrist bent backwards too much.
> 
> can't stand mice that have too wide backs, as I don't like curling my thumb or pinky when gripping my mouse.
> 
> I really wish Zowie wheels/clicks didn't suck, the ZA11 is a rather nice shape for me.


The Nixeus REVEL might work for you


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abso*
> 
> The Nixeus REVEL might work for you


sadly only 3mm difference in grip width. I have used one and it didn't work for me either, it is shaped too much ) ( rather than the ( ) that I prefer - which is super hard to find!!









thank you for the suggestion though!


----------



## pstN

What's your grip style? Fingertip, but not the classic one, I haven't seen anyone else with my exact grip.
What's your sensitivity? high
What's your maximum budget? doesn't matter
Do you want additional buttons? no
What games do you play? fps
Do you mind about prediction? not really
Other relevant information: I'd like a heavier mouse, and if possible low LOD, ambidextrous shape that's also quite wide. I currently use a Nixeus Revel and it feels kinda narrow but the issue is that it's too light. I've tried a G900, G403, sensei 301, fk1/2, ec1-2.

I think a heavier REVEL could do just fine but every ambidextrous mouse also seems light..

thanks


----------



## alkatzone

Hey guys, I am currently looking for a new mouse and I was hoping that maybe you could help me out.

Around 4 months ago my G602 broke down, and I bought a G502, and while its not horrible, I dont think its quite the one im looking for. I have rather big hands (20/10) and the G502 is simply too narrow for me. I prefer bigger mice that I can palm grip and with the G502 I have to grip it in this kinda clawy/finger tip style. I think the main issue is that I like to have some support in the back/center of my hand.

I went to a store recently and tried out a few and the ones that stood out for me were the Roccat kone emp and the corsair glaive, with the kone being slightly ahead. Unfortunatelly both these mice are around 120gr, and I would prefer something a bit lighter. I really wish the kone was 15gr lighter, it would have been the perfect mouse for me







.

Do you maybe have any suggestions? I was thinking about the zowie ec1-a (or ec1-b soon i suppose) but I dont really know how it compares to the mice that I mentioned. Maybe someone has both the kone and the ec1-a and could tell me if they are similar? If not I will probably just go with the kone emp, after the 602 and 502 it will be my lightest one in a while anyway.

Thanks

edit: Oh and since I see it recommendet a lot, I have tried the G403 in the store and I wasnt the biggest fan of its shape. It certainly didnt give me that "damn thats comfortable!" that the kone gave me.


----------



## DazzaInOz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alkatzone*
> 
> Hey guys, I am currently looking for a new mouse and I was hoping that maybe you could help me out.
> 
> Around 4 months ago my G602 broke down, and I bought a G502, and while its not horrible, I dont think its quite the one im looking for. I have rather big hands (20/10) and the G502 is simply too narrow for me. I prefer bigger mice that I can palm grip and with the G502 I have to grip it in this kinda clawy/finger tip style. I think the main issue is that I like to have some support in the back/center of my hand.
> 
> I went to a store recently and tried out a few and the ones that stood out for me were the Roccat kone emp and the corsair glaive, with the kone being slightly ahead. Unfortunatelly both these mice are around 120gr, and I would prefer something a bit lighter. I really wish the kone was 15gr lighter, it would have been the perfect mouse for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Do you maybe have any suggestions? I was thinking about the zowie ec1-a (or ec1-b soon i suppose) but I dont really know how it compares to the mice that I mentioned. Maybe someone has both the kone and the ec1-a and could tell me if they are similar? If not I will probably just go with the kone emp, after the 602 and 502 it will be my lightest one in a while anyway.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> edit: Oh and since I see it recommendet a lot, I have tried the G403 in the store and I wasnt the biggest fan of its shape. It certainly didnt give me that "damn thats comfortable!" that the kone gave me.


Deathadder? I know it's predictable but there's not a lot of large, comfortable, light weight mouse to choose from. Cougar Revenger, Razer Basilisk are a few other large but reasonable weight mouse that come to mind. The last two are about 107-110g from memory but the deathadder elite is probably the most popular large mouse and under 100g. The basilisk is a slightly larger/wider version of g502.


----------



## vonkez

//


----------



## raad11

So I've experimented with many mice. I've tried:

Logitech G502
Logitech G Pro
Logitech G403
Steelseries Rival 310
Sound Blaster Siege M04
Deathadder Elite
ROG Gladius II
Lancehead TE
Thermaltake Ventus X RGB Optical

My personal mouse history:

Pre-2005: MSIE 3.0 (Recommended by friends... loved it)
Pre-2007: MS Comfort Optical 3000 (Found it myself, it worked)
2007: Logitech G9 (Found it myself... just learned recently that this was a popular one... I used the naked mouse with no shell for gaming)
2008-2013: Logitech G9X (I purchased a new one every year because the left mouse button would start double-clicking whenever clicked once)
2013-2016: TT Saphira (At first I thought I did better with this than the G9X)
2016-2017: Nixeus Revel (Immediate improvement when using this right out of the box)

So out of the above, I went with the Rival 310 because I did the best with it using my normal grip (palm-ish, and also sometimes claw). I kept the G403 as well because if I gripped that one weird, I did well with it also. I kept the TT Ventus X just because I had fond memories of the Saphira.

Anyway, I found an old G9X that was in pretty good condition in a box from my old apartment where I lived in 2013-2014. It had just gone bad, the left button double-clicks.

So out of curiosity, now that I know a lot more about mice, I tried it out in Overwatch. My current most played FPS. Using the naked mouse with no shell as usual.

Despite it being an old laser sensor and feeling noticeably "laggier" than all the PMW3360-derived mice... I performed so much better with it. I was aiming a lot better and soon built up the same confidence I had when using the G9X back in my mostly Quake Live days. I wasn't going crazy. I do remember being able to aim easily. My tracking and headshots and aiming all around improved to a very sharp degree of precision.

That's not to say I do badly with the Rival 310, or G403, or whatever. I do better with those when doing large/long flicks, but for actual precision aim (lock onto a target with my eye and move crosshair to it), the G9X does better for me. Also for small adjustments (like moving from body to head or tracking a moving target while holding down fire).

So I've got this old G9X I can use. But new ones go for like $300.

Is there any mouse with a PMW3360 derived sensor that is basically the same size/shape of the naked G9X (no shell)?

EDIT: I don't know if the odd sensor position in the G9X contributes to my comfort level with it. I just feel way more at ease with it than normal mice.


----------



## avalonmabi

1. What's your grip style?
I think its a hybrid palm/claw

2. What's your sensitivity?
low to medium

3. What's your maximum budget?
$150

4. Do you want additional buttons?
Not really. I do like the forward and backward buttons on the side of the mouse.

5. What games do you play?
SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO

6. Do you mind about prediction?
In all honesty I'm still confused about prediction. Whatever the g303 has in terms of prediction is what I would prefer.

7. Other relevant information:
My first mouse was the roccat savu before it died. I got the G303 and initially the shape was kinda awkward to use but now that I'm used to it I love this mouse. I got a logitech PRO for work but I still like the g303 more. I am currently building a second gaming PC so I need a new mouse. If logitech did not stop production of the g303 or if there was one decently priced I would just buy another on but unfortunately I can't find a decently priced g303. So i'm looking for something similar to the g303 in terms of the sensor and size.


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avalonmabi*
> 
> 1. What's your grip style?
> I think its a hybrid palm/claw
> 
> 2. What's your sensitivity?
> low to medium
> 
> 3. What's your maximum budget?
> $150
> 
> 4. Do you want additional buttons?
> Not really. I do like the forward and backward buttons on the side of the mouse.
> 
> 5. What games do you play?
> SC2, LOL, Assasin's Creed, CS: GO
> 
> 6. Do you mind about prediction?
> In all honesty I'm still confused about prediction. Whatever the g303 has in terms of prediction is what I would prefer.
> 
> 7. Other relevant information:
> My first mouse was the roccat savu before it died. I got the G303 and initially the shape was kinda awkward to use but now that I'm used to it I love this mouse. I got a logitech PRO for work but I still like the g303 more. I am currently building a second gaming PC so I need a new mouse. If logitech did not stop production of the g303 or if there was one decently priced I would just buy another on but unfortunately I can't find a decently priced g303. So i'm looking for something similar to the g303 in terms of the sensor and size.


Ninox Aurora (3360 sensor), TT esports Ventus R (3310 sensor). Both have sides that are curved inward \ / like the G303.
Ninox Aurora is bigger than the Ventus R, I would personally go for the latter because of it. I dont know anything else about the mice because I dont own them but I do know that both sensors are almost on par, with the 3360 slightly out performing the 3310.


----------



## SgtHeisenb3rg

I'm really struggeling which mouse I should buy and hope you might help me solving my problem...
I played with a Logitech G Pro for almost one year now and was pretty happy with everything besides the fact that it was a bit short for my hands (19/10cm). I started looking for a larger mouse and ordered the G403 as well as the Zowie EC2-A.

The G403 is too big for my hands since I want my fingertips to finish with the tip of the right and left mouse button.

The EC2-A felt really fitting with my hand at first and my aim seemed to be even better than with the G Pro. But after playing quite a lot with it in multiplayer now I have to say that I miss the low weight and the small shape of the G Pro because I was kind of faster in my movements with the G Pro than with the EC2-A. Also, I felt like I didn't have enough space for my ring and small finger on the right side.

I play with some kind of hybrid between Palm and Claw grip with my palm staying on the hump of the mouse but my fingers not completely laying on the mouse, only the fingertips, even though they're not as steep and angled as with the usual Claw grip, just so that my fingers are floating a bit over the body of the mouse and my fingertips laying on the tip of the mouse buttons.

The game I usually play is Rainbow Six Siege.
The sensitivity with what I play is rather low and I don't need many extra buttons or other unnecessary stuff, just a mouse with a good shape.
I would be really thankful if you might suggest me a mouse that might fit my request!


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtHeisenb3rg*
> 
> I'm really struggeling which mouse I should buy and hope you might help me solving my problem...
> I played with a Logitech G Pro for almost one year now and was pretty happy with everything besides the fact that it was a bit short for my hands (19/10cm). I started looking for a larger mouse and ordered the G403 as well as the Zowie EC2-A.
> 
> The G403 is too big for my hands since I want my fingertips to finish with the tip of the right and left mouse button.
> 
> The EC2-A felt really fitting with my hand at first and my aim seemed to be even better than with the G Pro. But after playing quite a lot with it in multiplayer now I have to say that I miss the low weight and the small shape of the G Pro because I was kind of faster in my movements with the G Pro than with the EC2-A. Also, I felt like I didn't have enough space for my ring and small finger on the right side.
> 
> I play with some kind of hybrid between Palm and Claw grip with my palm staying on the hump of the mouse but my fingers not completely laying on the mouse, only the fingertips, even though they're not as steep and angled as with the usual Claw grip, just so that my fingers are floating a bit over the body of the mouse and my fingertips laying on the tip of the mouse buttons.
> 
> The game I usually play is Rainbow Six Siege.
> The sensitivity with what I play is rather low and I don't need many extra buttons or other unnecessary stuff, just a mouse with a good shape.
> I would be really thankful if you might suggest me a mouse that might fit my request!


maybe Ninox Venator? it has a back-side hump and is about as wide as a G Pro. bit taller up front though, so you fit your ring/pinky a bit better.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtHeisenb3rg*
> 
> I'm really struggeling which mouse I should buy and hope you might help me solving my problem...
> I played with a Logitech G Pro for almost one year now and was pretty happy with everything besides the fact that it was a bit short for my hands (19/10cm). I started looking for a larger mouse and ordered the G403 as well as the Zowie EC2-A.
> 
> The G403 is too big for my hands since I want my fingertips to finish with the tip of the right and left mouse button.
> 
> The EC2-A felt really fitting with my hand at first and my aim seemed to be even better than with the G Pro. But after playing quite a lot with it in multiplayer now I have to say that I miss the low weight and the small shape of the G Pro because I was kind of faster in my movements with the G Pro than with the EC2-A. Also, I felt like I didn't have enough space for my ring and small finger on the right side.
> 
> I play with some kind of hybrid between Palm and Claw grip with my palm staying on the hump of the mouse but my fingers not completely laying on the mouse, only the fingertips, even though they're not as steep and angled as with the usual Claw grip, just so that my fingers are floating a bit over the body of the mouse and my fingertips laying on the tip of the mouse buttons.
> 
> The game I usually play is Rainbow Six Siege.
> The sensitivity with what I play is rather low and I don't need many extra buttons or other unnecessary stuff, just a mouse with a good shape.
> I would be really thankful if you might suggest me a mouse that might fit my request!


Immediately thought the G303/302 would be perfect for you. My hands are 19.5 x 10.5 cm last I measured them, and I can still palm-grip the mouse despite its small size. The G303/302 is a bit wider than the G Pro, which, like you, was also too small for me. As a result, it feels bigger than The G Pro, but the weight is still only 87g. The G303 is also renowned for sporting some of the nicest-feeling main buttons that Logitech ever implemented. The G303 has since been discontinued, but you can still find them reasonably priced on sites like Ebay, etc. The G302 is still being produced, comes with an inferior (but probably not terrible) sensor, and you can find it on Logitech's website and other retailers for about $30.


----------



## Bashslash

What's your grip style? Hybird between Palm and Claw, more on the palm side of things

What's your sensitivity? Med-Low. I paly on 1.375 sens @ 800 dpi in the games I play

What's your maximum budget? 45-50$

Do you want additional buttons? Doesn't matter as long as its not more than 3/4 and the mouse is still great regardless

What games do you play? FPS Shooters, ie. TF2, CSGO,Quake Live, among other things

Do you mind about prediction? Depends on the mice, otherwise probably not

Other relevant information: My current mouse that im using is the kinzu v2 pro, so im mainly interested in mice with similar shape and ones that can suit small hands/grips.

Mice that've caught my attention : dm3 mini, kinzu v3, logitech gpro, logitech g203 and g102, ninox venator


----------



## Solarity

What's your grip style? I think I prefer palm.
What's your sensitivity? Low ~400DPI
What's your maximum budget? Best mouse for the price, no real budget.
Do you want additional buttons? Don't really need many more
What games do you play? Overwatch, Natural Selection, mostly FPS.
Do you mind about prediction? Don't know
Other relevant information:
Current Mouse is Corsair M60, seems a little small and the extra buttons seem not at the right area. I took out all the weights, so I guess I like a lighter mouse. I think I am forcing myself to use more of a claw grip style, though I wonder if it is from having a mouse that is to small at work and at home.
Wired
Comfortable/ergonomic.
Righty


----------



## s0rry

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarity*
> 
> What's your grip style? I think I prefer palm.
> What's your sensitivity? Low ~400DPI
> What's your maximum budget? Best mouse for the price, no real budget.
> Do you want additional buttons? Don't really need many more
> What games do you play? Overwatch, Natural Selection, mostly FPS.
> Do you mind about prediction? Don't know
> Other relevant information:
> Current Mouse is Corsair M60, seems a little small and the extra buttons seem not at the right area. I took out all the weights, so I guess I like a lighter mouse. I think I am forcing myself to use more of a claw grip style, though I wonder if it is from having a mouse that is to small at work and at home.
> Wired
> Comfortable/ergonomic.
> Righty


If you like the shape, get the G403 (or G703) wireless. Best right hand mouse because of how light it feels without the wire.
Other options are the Deathadder Elite or EC1-b (they both are almost the same shape and are very nice for palm grip).
The Deathadder can have bad build quality and the software is really annoying.
The EC1-a has harder clicks than the G403 or Deathadder and it has a 16step scroll wheel. I personally prefer the harder clicks because I play CS and it's very nice for tap firing, and the scroll wheel is also nice for bunny hopping but some people really don't like it (it's definitely worse for general use, but overall not really an issue). Oh also the EC1-b has no software so no macros (i personally never use them anyways and I main a Logitech mouse which has great software).
All 3 of these mice have amazing sensors so no need to worry about spinning out.
https://www.amazon.com/Razer-DeathAdder-Elite-Ergonomic-Comfortable/dp/B01LXC1QL0
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Gaming-Performance-Sensor/dp/B01KUAMCWI
https://www.amazon.com/LIGHTSPEED-POWERPLAY-Wireless-Charging-Compatibility/dp/B071S8M8TB
https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-ZOWIE-Ergonomic-Gaming-eSports/dp/B0771W41JT


----------



## Solarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0rry*
> 
> If you like the shape, get the G403 (or G703) wireless. Best right hand mouse because of how light it feels without the wire.
> Other options are the Deathadder Elite or EC1-b (they both are almost the same shape and are very nice for palm grip).
> The Deathadder can have bad build quality and the software is really annoying.
> The EC1-a has harder clicks than the G403 or Deathadder and it has a 16step scroll wheel. I personally prefer the harder clicks because I play CS and it's very nice for tap firing, and the scroll wheel is also nice for bunny hopping but some people really don't like it (it's definitely worse for general use, but overall not really an issue). Oh also the EC1-b has no software so no macros (i personally never use them anyways and I main a Logitech mouse which has great software).
> All 3 of these mice have amazing sensors so no need to worry about spinning out.
> https://www.amazon.com/Razer-DeathAdder-Elite-Ergonomic-Comfortable/dp/B01LXC1QL0
> https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Gaming-Performance-Sensor/dp/B01KUAMCWI
> https://www.amazon.com/LIGHTSPEED-POWERPLAY-Wireless-Charging-Compatibility/dp/B071S8M8TB
> https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-ZOWIE-Ergonomic-Gaming-eSports/dp/B0771W41JT


Thanks for responding, I ended up getting the G403 last week and love it! It was nice at best buy as you could try out the different mice. I liked the G502 for the functionality, though the G403 felt more comfortable. I am considering buying another mouse for work. I don't know if I should get the same mouse because it feels nice or just get something slightly different.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarity*
> 
> Thanks for responding, I ended up getting the G403 last week and love it! It was nice at best buy as you could try out the different mice. I liked the G502 for the functionality, though the G403 felt more comfortable. I am considering buying another mouse for work. I don't know if I should get the same mouse because it feels nice or just get something slightly different.


the G603 might be nice since it is wireless and has a month battery life, for office work it would be great if weight is not a big issue - it is quite heavy.


----------



## Solarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> the G603 might be nice since it is wireless and has a month battery life, for office work it would be great if weight is not a big issue - it is quite heavy.


I am not a fan of wireless. I do see that the Rival 500/700 have a tactile feedback. I would like to see if it can do tactile feedback when I get a meeting reminder or alert in outlook. I know it is supposed to be linked in a couple of games. Though that would actually be a handy feature. There is a Rival 700 at my local Best Buy for $50.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarity*
> 
> I am not a fan of wireless. I do see that the Rival 500/700 have a tactile feedback. I would like to see if it can do tactile feedback when I get a meeting reminder or alert in outlook. I know it is supposed to be linked in a couple of games. Though that would actually be a handy feature. There is a Rival 700 at my local Best Buy for $50.


It weighs half a ton tho, I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Solarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> It weighs half a ton tho, I wouldn't recommend it.


I heard it was on the heavy side, but BB had it in stock, I could try it out and return it, if I don't care for it.


----------



## FerK

Hello guys, I'm looking to buy a new mouse. Last one I had was Logitech G502, that I ended up refunding because it broke down a few months after I bought it. I decided not to buy one at the time and I've been using my old Zowie EC2 evo since then, it was the one I had prior to the Logitech, but it was half broken, its getting worse and now I decided to buy a new one.

I'm not interested in continuing the trend of relatively priced mouses, back in the day I enjoyed playing competitive in CSGO and so on but nowadays I barely play a little bit of PUBG and just for fun, so first off I don't need an expensive mouse and anyway I'm going to end up breaking it, somehow all my mouses end up with the buttons registering several clicks when I only click once so at this point I'm going to guess it's my usage and not the mouses fault.

So with the above in mind, my budget is 20€ at most. I have a couple in mind that people say are very good for the price, like Gigabyte M6800 (9.5€ where I live) or Tecknet M268 or something like that (a little bit cheaper). I also have in mind a CM Storm Xornet II. I don't have a particular way of holding the mouse, sometimes it's claw-like, sometimes it's not, I unconscious switch and that makes my choice harder (or easier, depending on how you look at it, because I practically adapt to whatever size it is). But I'm going to add that the mouse I liked the most was the Logitech MX310, so you can more or less know how I like them the most.

So, from those mouses, which one would be the best option? Is there any other recommendation, some other mice that I have missed and it's better or about the same as the above?

Regards.


----------



## suneatshours86

is shoxie playing with a new logitech mouse?
https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964330.6859.jpeg
https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964333.7718.jpeg

seems a G-pro shape but way bigger (?)


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suneatshours86*
> 
> is shoxie playing with a new logitech mouse?
> https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964330.6859.jpeg
> https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964333.7718.jpeg
> 
> seems a G-pro shape but way bigger (?)


idk man, looks pretty normal to me


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suneatshours86*
> 
> is shoxie playing with a new logitech mouse?
> https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964330.6859.jpeg
> https://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/11225-full/1515964333.7718.jpeg
> 
> seems a G-pro shape but way bigger (?)


Pretty sure it's a standard G Pro.


----------



## LazarusIV

Hey everyone! I'm looking for a relatively budget, ergonomic mouse with two buttons on the left side (I'm right handed and have to have my forward-back buttons). I also will not be using any software, since it's for work, and it needs to not look like a Transformer™ weapon please!

What's your grip style? *palm*
What's your sensitivity? *At home to game I use about 1400*
What's your maximum budget?*$100, it would have to be perfect for that though*
Do you want additional buttons?*As noted, left-side thumb buttons for forward / back*
What games do you play?*N/A for office use*
Do you mind about prediction?*No thank you*
Other relevant information: Professional in appearance, please! Wired, braided cord if that's doable. I love Logitech mice (G502 at home that I love) so I can configure this mouse at home with Logitech's software and then bring it to work, so on-board memory for Logitech. Driverless preferred
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Hey everyone! I'm looking for a relatively budget, ergonomic mouse with two buttons on the left side (I'm right handed and have to have my forward-back buttons). I also will not be using any software, since it's for work, and it needs to not look like a Transformer™ weapon please!
> 
> What's your grip style? *palm*
> What's your sensitivity? *At home to game I use about 1400*
> What's your maximum budget?*$100, it would have to be perfect for that though*
> Do you want additional buttons?*As noted, left-side thumb buttons for forward / back*
> What games do you play?*N/A for office use*
> Do you mind about prediction?*No thank you*
> Other relevant information: Professional in appearance, please! Wired, braided cord if that's doable. I love Logitech mice (G502 at home that I love) so I can configure this mouse at home with Logitech's software and then bring it to work, so on-board memory for Logitech. Driverless preferred
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


Logitech G403 - turn of lights and its a bland black slab of plastic.
Zowie Benq range - black minimalist look. Can either go for the ec1-a/b ot the ec2-a/b based on hand size
Razer Basilisk
Razer Deathadder
Steelseries Rival 310


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Logitech G403 - turn of lights and its a bland black slab of plastic.
> Zowie Benq range - black minimalist look. Can either go for the ec1-a/b ot the ec2-a/b based on hand size
> Razer Basilisk
> Razer Deathadder
> Steelseries Rival 310


Ah, that G403 might be perfect! Very excellent, looks low-key, good sensor, good fit and it has the buttons I want. Thank you, I'll put it on my Amazon list









Do you know if the wireless function will work without the software suite? Can I put the receiver in my laptop at work and just go?


----------



## Jonny321321

I'm looking for a good claw grip mouse. Does a better/slightly wider G100S exist?

I'm eyeing up the G203 but I'm apprehensive about the shape differences which might render it less clawable for my medium-large hands (19cm). I find mice difficult enough to claw as it is (I can't consistently claw the Ninox Venator and strangely I find the G303 quite difficult to maintain claw) so the perfect shape is a must. If it's the same braided cable as the G pro it'll be too cumbersome? I had the G Pro but returned it since I wasn't clawing then and clicks were too sensitive for burst control. Didn't really give it a proper shot though.

So yeah, slightly bigger or wider G100s or similar shaped mice to try? Alternatively suggest any mice designed for clawing? How bad is the new Coolmaster MM something?

I guess it would be something like the Zowie Mico if there were an updated version though I've never tried that mouse to comment on its shape.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Ah, that G403 might be perfect! Very excellent, looks low-key, good sensor, good fit and it has the buttons I want. Thank you, I'll put it on my Amazon list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know if the wireless function will work without the software suite? Can I put the receiver in my laptop at work and just go?


It will work without it. Plug and work I guess.


----------



## Armotekma

What's your grip style? _Fingertip, 19.7cm x 10.8cm hand._
What's your sensitivity? _67cm 360_
What's your maximum budget? _$100_
Do you want additional buttons? _Two side and one near the scroll wheel._
What games do you play? _CS, Siege_
Do you mind about prediction? _Off._
Other relevant information: _G400 was really comfortable for me. I had a Rival 300 that I replaced because it hurt my hand and wrist (it is not super heavy so maybe the shape), now I'm on a G403 which is miles more comfortable but seems like I don't aim my best. The grass is always greener._


----------



## glalaxen

What's your grip style? Claw
What's your sensitivity? 800dpi
What's your maximum budget? No budget
Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons
What games do you play? PUBG, SC2, Battlefield +++
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
Other relevant information: I'm currently using a G900 which feels good, but optimal would be something a tad smaller and a little lighter.
Do you guys have any suggestions?


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

What's your grip style? Finger grip
What's your sensitivity? 1500dpi
What's your maximum budget? No budget
Do you want additional buttons? 12+ MMO/MOBA buttons(i.e.Naga)
What games do you play? LoL, SWTOR, DivinityII
Do you mind about prediction? Lolwut?
Other relevant information: I've been using the original Razer Naga for about 7 years. I love the additional buttons and I've been looking for a new MMO/MOBA mouse. My issue is that I use finger grip. With the original Naga I can use this type of grip usually resting my thumb on the 1 button on the side without pressing it down accidentally (since they take a good bit a force to press). I like this, but with the newer Naga which I've tried, the buttons stick out far more and are tremendously easy to press. I find it impossible to use finger grip with this mouse. In addition, it's far larger than the original Naga which also makes finger grip harder. I have large hands so I would be able to use finger grip with a mouse that size after getting accustomed, it's just the button issue that is getting in the way. I've tried the new Naga and the Hex, no dice.

tldr; Any suggestions for MMO/MOBA mice good with finger grip for larger hands?


----------



## AMW1011

What's your grip style? Palm (large hands)
What's your sensitivity? 750/800
What's your maximum budget? Any price
Do you want additional buttons? Nice, but not required
What games do you play? SC2 and some FPS
Do you mind about prediction? Not sure

Other relevant information: I'm currently using G602 which has worked wonderfully for me until fairly recently since I've been trying to progress to lower sensitivity. The weight has become an issue unfortunately. I mainly got this because I was tired of mice with cords that would get caught on everything (specifically the Deathadder).


----------



## Nakauri

glalaxen said:


> What's your grip style? Claw
> What's your sensitivity? 800dpi
> What's your maximum budget? No budget
> Do you want additional buttons? Two side buttons
> What games do you play? PUBG, SC2, Battlefield +++
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
> Other relevant information: I'm currently using a G900 which feels good, but optimal would be something a tad smaller and a little lighter.
> Do you guys have any suggestions?


Smaller and lighter with a claw. By how much? Initial recommendation would be the Zowie FK2 or the Rival 310. 
The Logitech g900 is ~130x67x40 weighing ~107g. The rival 310 is ~128x62x42 weighing ~88g. FK2 is ~125x64x36 weighing ~90g. 
Alternatively for a similarish shape but shorter the Roccat Kone Pure OwlEye is 118x70x39 and 88g.


----------



## kieran1203

What's your grip style? - Claw (relaxed? basically imbetween claw and palm my fingers arent extremely arched)

What's your sensitivity? - 400 dpi 2.5 in game CS:GO

What's your maximum budget? Unlimited

Do you want additional buttons? No standard

What games do you play? FPS - CS:GO, PubG etc

Do you mind about prediction? Don't want any

Other relevant information: 18.5 cm hand, currently own EC2-A want something a little smaller/slimmer shape, 90 grams or less.


----------



## djdelarosa25

What's your grip style? *Relaxed claw grip*

What's your sensitivity? *750 CPI, 1.04 in-game CS:GO (780 effective CPI)*

What's your maximum budget? *Around $25*

Do you want additional buttons? *Not really, though a cool bonus*

What games do you play? *CS:GO*

Do you mind about prediction? *Of course, absolutely none of it*

Other relevant information: *Low LOD, High PCS, shape similar to my G100s, buttons that are fairly aren't too soft (I always accidentally click my G100s), soft and loose wire*


----------



## Leopardi

djdelarosa25 said:


> What's your grip style? *Relaxed claw grip*
> 
> What's your sensitivity? *750 CPI, 1.04 in-game CS:GO (780 effective CPI)*
> 
> What's your maximum budget? *Around $25*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons? *Not really, though a cool bonus*
> 
> What games do you play? *CS:GO*
> 
> Do you mind about prediction? *Of course, absolutely none of it*
> 
> Other relevant information: *Low LOD, High PCS, shape similar to my G100s, buttons that are fairly aren't too soft (I always accidentally click my G100s), soft and loose wire*


Ninox Astrum is the only G100s alternative, but it doesn't exist just yet.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Leopardi said:


> Ninox Astrum is the only G100s alternative, but it doesn't exist just yet.


Well, any similar alternatives? Ones that are readily available?


----------



## Leopardi

djdelarosa25 said:


> Well, any similar alternatives? Ones that are readily available?


Doesn't exist. Logitech utterly failed the G Pro and G102/G203, and hasn't bothered to even fix the buttons. But there's also the shape difference even if they did, width is only 50mm at the base as it's now a \_/ shape.


----------



## Arkengate

What's your grip style? Fingertype / Hybrid Palm? Sometimes my "knuckles" rest on the mouse.

What's your sensitivity? 1600 DPI or so

What's your maximum budget? $80? Can go higher if need be.

Do you want additional buttons? Nah, just the standard 5

What games do you play? LOL, Civ 6, Eu4, Sometimes PUBG

Do you mind about prediction? I guess i've lived with it, but the new/other mice feel better for aiming

Other relevant information: 18x11 cm hands roughly, uses Sensei Raw for a long, long time but now that I've tried a ton of mice, it doesnt feel "right" anymore, maybe my hands just sore from trying so many mice in the last month

G900/basillisk/G502 too thin, hurts center of hand
DA/mamba/Rival 600/Glaive too wide, bulky, hump so far forward
Rival 310 back feels hard to grip with my shorter thumbs, side really slippery
Rival 100/G Pro too small
Lancehead kinda slippery sides? cant remember, but i remember it being too thin/too low
Revel Everyone says this is a clone, but, it felt smaller with hump in different spot kinda, as well as side buttons further back
M65 Was too wide, couldnt really move it in my fingers.
MMO mice never seem to work for me.
FK1+ Feels heck of a lot lower, hard to palm, seems too wide (maybe i try FK1?) but the clicks seem much harder to spam than the Sensei

Havent tried DM1 Pro S as it is seemingly hard to get/super expensive, itd be hard to return of I didnt like it. Sensie Optical seems glossy, and not actually RAW... Whys it called RAW?

I'm okay trying other mice that are "similar" to the Sensei, even, as long as its on amazon for returns!

Basically looking for a Sensei Sized (maybe a bit wider) with a semi-low profile hump in the back instead of the middle. G900 but wider/lower hump.


----------



## zasjfe

1.What's your grip style? palm

2.What's your sensitivity? 3200 dpi 6/11 3.0 in overwatch

3.What's your maximum budget?~100$

4.Do you want additional buttons?no

5.What games do you play?most of the times lol,occasionally ow

6.Do you mind about prediction?i dont really know what prediction is but i dont want any crap like angle snapping/acceleration that affects the sensor..

7.Other relevant information:was thinking about zowie ec2a but dont know .. 
i am looking for something between ~80-90 grams weight with a simple shape (i dont care if it has leds,side buttons i dont use them anyway), i dont know if i like ambidextrous or right handed mices more ... i didnot had many mices previously had intelli 3.0,kinzu v2 pro,sensei ,deathadder chroma,elite .. 
chroma and kinzu i liked the most in terms of shape (plz dont recommend something from steelseries i wont buy anything from this abominal company ever again),plug and play driverless..looking for something that works well at 3200 dpi i am aware that probably none of all the sensors in the market are perfect above 2000 dpi but i want to buy the best one i can get... i considered ec2b an option too since the pmw3360 but i saw a lot of negative feedbacks /reviews so i dont know what to think about this;(also want something solid that wont break after 1 month of using it 14 hours per day...) 
i dont know all these things about smoothing /angle snapping/ acceleration but i want something that will work flawless at 3200 dpi so i can use muscle memory and not rely on vision to move the cursor.. 
as a note chroma tracks better/is more consistent than elite despite not being as responsive as elite i mean if i want to go from A to B 100 times 75% of times or more the chroma will go exactly there,if i do the same with elite it will go behind/below or further/above the point where i wanted to move the cursor/crosshair
forgot to mention that i hate dpi buttons i accidentally pressed them when i was playing with da elite and reseted my custom dpi and had to install again that bloatware to change the dpi to 3200 and made me to dissasemble it and break the dpi buttons and now i am left with a hole in the mouse xd ... so unless the dpi button is under the mouse like zowie i would prefer no dpi buttons.. with a software to change the dpi and onboard chipset that saves the settings..so i dont need to install everytime like the razer new mices.. 
if you have a mouse to suggest me plz avoid razer,steelseries. 

thanks


----------



## munchzilla

Logitech G Pro is simple, works the best on 3200dpi out of all sensors (3366). no need for software, can install, set it up and uninstall forever.


----------



## jorgex41

1.Palm
2.It is a present for a friend, plays mainly csgo so I guess low sensitivity
3.100€
4.yes, 2 on the left
5. CSGO
6.yes, I want to buy one with the best sensor possible.

Last mouse I bought was my roccat kpm, I have been out of the mouse game for a while.Should I go for mionix,steelseries,roccat,Logitech,zowie ?
What are the best options ?


----------



## Sebiale

What's your grip style? Palm
 What's your sensitivity? Medium
 What's your maximum budget? $70
 Do you want additional buttons? No
 What games do you play? MMOs, RPGs, Action
 Do you mind about prediction? I don't think so, but if it comes on the mouse I'd probably want to be able to turn it off.
 Other relevant information: I'm replacing my Razer Naga (it has intermittent, random loss of tracking that I cannot narrow down). I find I don't like the numberpad on the size of mice, it hurts my thumb to use them.

The mouse definitely has to be wired, I have no patience for wireless. Braided cord is preferred but not required. If it had ergonomic features (like a thumb rest) that would be a plus. I don't care about lighting much, a single light just to find it it in the dark is fine. Plug and play is definitely preferred.
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## Elrick

munchzilla said:


> Logitech G Pro is simple, works the best on 3200dpi out of all sensors (3366). no need for software, can install, set it up and uninstall forever.


It should apply across all mice in general.

Never leave extra junk claiming to be a software driver running on the desktop, takes valuable ram away from the system and even from the game you're running.

Any mouse that denies the removal of it's software like Razer Corp, needs to be avoided at all cost. You need to purchase something that remembers your own particular settings, without needing it's horrid software constantly running to remember it. Very idiotic for some companies to run this style of scam.


----------



## MagicOnion

Hello my sidegrips in my OG rival are worn out and my rival has 4 years so i think it's time for an upgrade


What's your grip style? Mixed palm and claw
What's your sensitivity? 1600 DPI 1000 Hz 
What's your maximum budget? 80 Euro
Do you want additional buttons? DPI switch and up down (the side ones)
What games do you play? Mostly CS:GO and League of legends
Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
Other relevant information? Soft side grips onboard memory right-handed shape
Overall I want something simillar to OG Rival and Rival 310 is too light for me (DA shape is good but build quality and Synapse enforcing is crap) i was thinking about Logitech G403 or zowie EC1-B but i'm looking for more suggestions


----------



## munchzilla

MagicOnion said:


> Hello my sidegrips in my OG rival are worn out and my rival has 4 years so i think it's time for an upgrade
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? Mixed palm and claw
> What's your sensitivity? 1600 DPI 1000 Hz
> What's your maximum budget? 80 Euro
> Do you want additional buttons? DPI switch and up down (the side ones)
> What games do you play? Mostly CS:GO and League of legends
> Do you mind about prediction? No prediction
> Other relevant information? Soft side grips onboard memory right-handed shape
> Overall I want something simillar to OG Rival and Rival 310 is too light for me (DA shape is good but build quality and Synapse enforcing is crap) i was thinking about Logitech G403 or zowie EC1-B but i'm looking for more suggestions


G403 will feel a lot wider and bigger than the Rival. EC1-B might be more similar but it's not much heavier than Rival 310.
Rival 600 is an option too but it's also quite a bit bigger than the OG Rival... not as wide/big as the G403 though.


----------



## stormchaser

Hello, guys kindly help me choose a mouse, my requirements are rather simple. I currently use a Logitech M100 mouse, i am fine with its shape and size but its extremely cheap and i keep on breaking one every few months, I do 3d work. So kindly suggest me a mouse thats almost the same as M100 but of better quality and build, my budget is around 60$, do not want extra buttons just 3 buttons are fine with me, preferable a little lighter as i tend to pick up the mouse a lot instead of just sliding.

What's your grip style? claw
What's your sensitivity? NA 
What's your maximum budget? 60$
Do you want additional buttons? NO
What games do you play? Dont game but use 3ds max and Unreal Engine a lot.
Do you mind about prediction? NA
Other relevant information? Same shape as Logitech M100 perhaps a bit lighter


----------



## THEStorm

What's your grip style? Palm
What's your sensitivity? 800 dpi
What's your maximum budget? $50
Do you want additional buttons? At least one side button
What games do you play? N/A
Do you mind about prediction? Not overly important
Other relevant information: Looking for a mouse for work. I use a zowie FK1 at home and find it very comfortable. Must be wireless and be relatively portable. Doesn't need any customization software.


----------



## p1r4nh4

https://imgur.com/a/4KWFzWr

The mouse in the pictures is a Trust GXT 105 with PERFECT shape for my grip BUT the sensor is ***** (28IPS)

Id call it a plam/fingertip hybrid maybe?! My hand sits pretty low. Humps at the side annoy me.

Right now Im using a Razer Abyssus V2. I tried:

Mx518, SS rival 300, G100s, GPRO, FK1, ABKO HAcker A660, Creative M04, EC2A, Ventus R, Scorpion M6-600, G403

I have 19x10cm hands.


----------



## 161029

Grip style?
*Fingertip*

What's your sensitivity?
*1600, 3200 on really high DPI displays, and 400-800 if I need some precision on some things like graphic design.*

What's your maximum budget?
*$60-70*

Do you want additional buttons?
*Doesn't really matter. On the fly DPI adjustment button is nice but not necessary.*

Do you mind prediction?
*Yes. As raw as possible is preferred.*

Additional information?
*If possible I'd like something akin to the Logitech Hyperscrolls on the Logitech MX Anywhere or MX Master. I find the ability to flick through pages to be quite useful as I read a lot of long form and sometimes work with large code files.*

My G303 is 3 years in and starting to have the double clicking problem. I don't have access to a soldering iron so I don't really have the ability to replace the omron switches. I don't particularly mind weight so long as the mouse isn't ridiculously heavy.

Worst case scenario I just forgo a well performing mouse and get a MX Anywhere 2.

From the looks of it my only option with a hyperscroll-esque wheel would be the Corsair M65 Pro unless I want to spend a ridiculous amount on the G903.


----------



## cainy1991

HybridCore said:


> Grip style?
> *Fingertip*
> 
> What's your sensitivity?
> *1600, 3200 on really high DPI displays, and 400-800 if I need some precision on some things like graphic design.*
> 
> What's your maximum budget?
> *$60-70*
> 
> Do you want additional buttons?
> *Doesn't really matter. On the fly DPI adjustment button is nice but not necessary.*
> 
> Do you mind prediction?
> *Yes. As raw as possible is preferred.*
> 
> Additional information?
> *If possible I'd like something akin to the Logitech Hyperscrolls on the Logitech MX Anywhere or MX Master. I find the ability to flick through pages to be quite useful as I read a lot of long form and sometimes work with large code files.*
> 
> My G303 is 3 years in and starting to have the double clicking problem. I don't have access to a soldering iron so I don't really have the ability to replace the omron switches. I don't particularly mind weight so long as the mouse isn't ridiculously heavy.
> 
> Worst case scenario I just forgo a well performing mouse and get a MX Anywhere 2.
> 
> From the looks of it my only option with a hyperscroll-esque wheel would be the Corsair M65 Pro unless I want to spend a ridiculous amount on the G903.



Hmmm there are a few options with the hyperscroll 

G502
MX Master/Anywhere
M 705 Marathon
M 500

And probably others... 

But if you want a decent performing sensor I think the 502 is the only real option.

I didn't know the M65 Pro had a free spinning scroll wheel so I googled.... and found nothing but pages and pages of posts about the scroll wheel breaking- Might be worth noting is all -


----------



## 161029

cainy1991 said:


> Hmmm there are a few options with the hyperscroll
> 
> G502
> MX Master/Anywhere
> M 705 Marathon
> M 500
> 
> And probably others...
> 
> But if you want a decent performing sensor I think the 502 is the only real option.
> 
> I didn't know the M65 Pro had a free spinning scroll wheel so I googled.... and found nothing but pages and pages of posts about the scroll wheel breaking- Might be worth noting is all -


It doesn't advertise a free spinning wheel but it is the only one I could find with a metal scroll wheel. One of the threads complaining about the mouse stated something that I extrapolated as free spinning wheel-like behavior but I wasn't sure.

502 was on my radar when I bought the 303 but from what I remember it was better suited for palm grip. I'd be quite happy if I were wrong though.


----------



## cainy1991

HybridCore said:


> It doesn't advertise a free spinning wheel but it is the only one I could find with a metal scroll wheel. One of the threads complaining about the mouse stated something that I extrapolated as free spinning wheel-like behavior but I wasn't sure.
> 
> 502 was on my radar when I bought the 303 but from what I remember it was better suited for palm grip. I'd be quite happy if I were wrong though.


I always tip/claw gripped it.. but I have rather large hands so I don't know what it would be like for a normal person. 

As far as I'm aware Logi has a patent on the free spinning wheel so I honestly don't know if anyone else can make them anymore.


----------



## 161029

cainy1991 said:


> I always tip/claw gripped it.. but I have rather large hands so I don't know what it would be like for a normal person.
> 
> As far as I'm aware Logi has a patent on the free spinning wheel so I honestly don't know if anyone else can make them anymore.


Hmm well that works since I have rather large hands as well.

Guess that will have to wait another decade or so (however long patents last nowadays).

I'll be on the lookout for a sale on the 502 then. Will probably check that and the MX Anywhere + Master in store then.

Wonder if a MX Anywhere/Master 3 with a USB-C connector instead (for convenience) will come out anytime soon.

Edit: Found some patents. Microsoft has one with similar utility.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070188453A1/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8040331


----------



## gipetto

It's possible to use small motors as encoders such as dc brushless and steppers. micro steppers like this have no cogging unless intentionally implemented and are cheap and light. I soldered a coin to one, hard to balance though.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pc...075.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.49e24c4dHXgZhn


----------



## alex667

*What's your grip style?*

Claw Grip

*What's your sensitivity?*

450 DPI 

*What's your maximum budget?*
60 Euros

*Do you want additional buttons?*
2 Sides button on the right side (I'm lefthanded) would be nice to have but it's not necessary 

*What games do you play?*

FPS Games (mostly Counter Strike Global Offensive)

*Do you mind about prediction?*

I'm not sure to be honest. 

*Other relevant information:*
- Very important : *STIFF* clicks. I had 2 Zowie Mices (FK 2014 and FK2) and the fk 2014 has very stiff clicks what I really like. But the sensor spins out when i do really fast mouse movements/flicks. And the FK2 
has somehow very light clicks (it happens so often that I double click by accident). 
- low LOD is prefered
- ambidextrous shape (cuz I'm left handed)
- light weight prefered
- My hand is 19 cm long so the mouse should be somewhat small/medium sized


----------



## xyzrave

What's your grip style? 
claw/fingertip
 What's your sensitivity?
around 50-60cm/360, 1.05 / 800 dpi in cs go
 What's your maximum budget?
price doesnt matter
 Do you want additional buttons?
i dont mind them
 What games do you play?
mostly csgo, sometimes osu and some other games where mouse doesnt matter much 
 Do you mind about prediction?
yeah, probably
 Other relevant information:
i used to play best with deathadder 2013 and chroma, now using the elite but i dont feel that good on it even though the sensor is "better", i also hate that i cant save my 400 dpi without synapse, i mostly claw-fingertip the mouse, i was thinking about Zowie EC1-A or FK1+ since my hands are 18,5x11 cm, also for the mouses i used, i tested fk2, wasnt that bad but bit too small, fk1 just didnt feel right, za12 defo not for me, rival 300 i used long time ago but didnt like it that much back then, i own a 310 now and its not bad but still doesnt feel that good, logitech g pro too small and sides too narrow, rival 100 shape feels good but cant stand the sensor


----------



## Nx87

xyzrave said:


> What's your grip style?
> claw/fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> around 50-60cm/360, 1.05 / 800 dpi in cs go
> What's your maximum budget?
> price doesnt matter
> Do you want additional buttons?
> i dont mind them
> What games do you play?
> mostly csgo, sometimes osu and some other games where mouse doesnt matter much
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yeah, probably
> Other relevant information:
> i used to play best with deathadder 2013 and chroma, now using the elite but i dont feel that good on it even though the sensor is "better", i also hate that i cant save my 400 dpi without synapse, i mostly claw-fingertip the mouse, i was thinking about Zowie EC1-A or FK1+ since my hands are 18,5x11 cm, also for the mouses i used, i tested fk2, wasnt that bad but bit too small, fk1 just didnt feel right, za12 defo not for me, rival 300 i used long time ago but didnt like it that much back then, i own a 310 now and its not bad but still doesnt feel that good, logitech g pro too small and sides too narrow, rival 100 shape feels good but cant stand the sensor


Did you test the EC2?
Think that shape and size would suit your grip and hand really good.


----------



## xyzrave

Nx87 said:


> Did you test the EC2?
> Think that shape and size would suit your grip and hand really good.


oh yeah i forgot, used ec2-b, shape was okay but only if i palmed the mouse, and as i've said im more claw-fingertip.


----------



## spaghettiman

xyzrave said:


> What's your grip style?
> claw/fingertip
> What's your sensitivity?
> around 50-60cm/360, 1.05 / 800 dpi in cs go
> What's your maximum budget?
> price doesnt matter
> Do you want additional buttons?
> i dont mind them
> What games do you play?
> mostly csgo, sometimes osu and some other games where mouse doesnt matter much
> Do you mind about prediction?
> yeah, probably
> Other relevant information:
> i used to play best with deathadder 2013 and chroma, now using the elite but i dont feel that good on it even though the sensor is "better", i also hate that i cant save my 400 dpi without synapse, i mostly claw-fingertip the mouse, i was thinking about Zowie EC1-A or FK1+ since my hands are 18,5x11 cm, also for the mouses i used, i tested fk2, wasnt that bad but bit too small, fk1 just didnt feel right, za12 defo not for me, rival 300 i used long time ago but didnt like it that much back then, i own a 310 now and its not bad but still doesnt feel that good, logitech g pro too small and sides too narrow, rival 100 shape feels good but cant stand the sensor


To be honest with you I've gone about a similar rotation of mice (with basically the same hand size) and ended up on the abyssus v2 oddly enough; I play with a bit higher of a sens than you (around 1.2 800dpi) in tf2 and have experienced no spin outs after about 3 months of usage with it.

Overall it's the best fingertip mouse I've used with the only downside being that it cramps my hands after extended periods of time. If a local shop has them on display I'd recommend seeing if it feels good in the hand.


----------



## qlum

What's your grip style?
Palm grip with 3 fingers on top
 What's your sensitivity?
2000 in windows / most 3d games and 1000 in osu!
 What's your maximum budget?
Whatever it takes within reason
 Do you want additional buttons?
Preferably yes but at least a dpi or profile switch
_(I like the way my current mouse handles it with a function key that changes the way the mouse buttons work)_
 What games do you play?
Overwatch, osu! for now
 Other relevant information: I like to use 3 fingers on top of the mouse so thumb left index on left middle on scroll wheel and ring finger on right. 
Any mouse that would be uncomfortable to have your middle finger resting on the scroll wheel is a no go. 
An example of this is the Logicool G502 (I tried my brother's one bought it in Japan)
The scroll wheel on that mouse is raised pretty high and it's just not comfortable with my style of use. 

I am currently using a cm-storm sentinel III while it works fine I think it's time to move on. 
The weight is shifted too far back it has a bit too much of a bulge on the right side and the shiny plastic on top is not that comfortable.
Other than that I already had to rma it once because the middle mouse button which I very regularly use died. 
What I do like about it is the function key allowing for more input's.

I do not want anything to do with mice that require you to constantly run their crappy software (razer / steelseries)

My hand's are pretty average in size: 19cm x 10cm

As I dedicate a finger to the scroll wheel / mmb I prefer to have a good button under there and a relatively smooth scroll wheel.

edit: I could get a g403 on the cheap and tested it at a local store beforehand so I went for that.


----------



## seyadeodin

What's your grip style?
Palm, but I believe I could adapt to fingertip.
What's your sensitivity?
34.64 cm=360
What's your maximum budget?
$50
Do you want additional buttons?
Two side buttons would be ideal
What games do you play?
Mainly FPS (Overwatch, sometimes some CS)
Do you mind about prediction?
Yes I do
Other relevant information:
Hand measurement is 18x9 cm
The 3 main mouses I'm considering are: Logitech G403, Logitech G203 and CM Storm MasterMouse S


----------



## hza

@seyadeodin get the G403. I have similar sized hands (slightly smaller) and have used this G403 for over a year now. I can tell you a few things from my experience. I like it so much I will replace it with a G703 because I want to go wireless. However, you need to figure out how to hold it "correctly" because of its hump in the back. I can tell you I didn't like the mouse right away due to that. So, I would suggest you give the mouse some time, if it feels a bit off at first. Other than that mouse wheel isn't the greatest, but that applies to over 90 % of the mice, I guess (don't take my word on that). It basically means there are some tolerences you may or may not get lucky with. It's not broken or anything, works pretty good actually. There are just 2 different sounds depending on which direction I scroll. Again, that applies to most or a lot of mice using a mechanical encoder. So, I wish you to get a perfect balanced mouse wheel, in case you decide to buy it. About G203 I can just say even after 2 weeks or so I couldn't get a comfortable grip (had the G Pro for that time, same shape though). You said you could adapt to fingertip grip, so, it might work out for you. I just don't like fingertip grip.


----------



## pepelugil

Hello,


I need your help...



*What's your grip style?* claw/fingertip (hand size: 18cm / 9cm)
 *What's your sensitivity? *1800 DPI / 1000 Hz
 *What's your maximum budget?* 80€
 *Do you want additional buttons? *Yes, 2 at each side that work at the same time
* What games do you play? *Mostly FPS, although I'll use it mainly to web browsing, MS Office and Photoshop.
 *Other relevant information:* It must be ambidextrous (I'm left handed) and wired, the mice I've found that seem to meet my criteria are SteelSeries Sensei 310, Razer Lancehead Tournament Edition, Roccat Kiro, ThunderX3 AM7 and the "old" Mionix AVIOR-7000 (also Ninox Astrum if I'm able to live with my dying Steelseries Diablo III).
Thanks


----------



## ElectroManiac

Sup guys. Any info on the roccat kone pure owl eye mouses?

I got one of the first optical kone pure mouse and I has rock it for quite some time. I love the shape, but the left click start double clicking with only doing one click, so I need a new mouse.

Any other suggestion in the same size/profile of the kone pure?


----------



## adriidz

Hi!

I've been using a 9,5 cm x 5 cm x 3 cm (length width, height) mouse for several years and I decided to change it to a gaming mouse. With this mouse, I was forced to fingertip.
My hand measures 17.5 cm x 9.5 cm. So:

My sensitivity:
As I use a generic mouse I don't know my DPI, but I use a 0.13 sensitivity in Fortnite, game that I mostly play.

My grip style:
I think somewhere in between claw and palm grip (a little bit more palm-ish). I've got another mouse (11 x 3.5 x 6) that I cannot use beacause it's too old (ball sensor) and bad, but more comfortable. The thing is that I lift my finger somewhere in between these two grips.

My budget:
No more than 50-55€. 

Do I want additional buttons?
Yes I do, 2 side ones will be perfect.

Do I mind about prediction?
Well in Fortnite I usually go for very AR longshots so I guess I DON'T want prediction. I want the mouse to go exactly where I want to.

Other information:
A mouse with 80-90 g would be perfect.
I don't care if it's wired or not but I'd like a wired mouse if possible.
Matte finish like the G403 one is the one I love.
I want a decent scroll wheel (one that doesn't require so much force to press).

I've been looking and I'm about to but the G403 because of its low price (45-48€), because it's so beautiful, beacuase I read it is very comfy (but I don't know if it might be bigger for me than I want to), its build quality and its reviews.

So, would you recommend me this mouse?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## kirill095

Hi All,
I am newbie to this forum and hoping to get your opinion on the issue of choosing a new mouse. I've used intellimouse explorer 3.0 for more that 14 years and decided to buy something more modern this year as my last device broke.
My requirements are:
1. Light weight not more than 100g
2. Right handed
3. Solid clicks
4. Proper quality of the assemble and the materials/components. 
5. Modern sensor like 3360
6. Not wireless
7. Should be at least close to the size of ie 3.0 (132mm * 69mm * 43mm)
8. I do not need additional buttons. IE3.0 had 4+the wheel. Should be enough

This year I've already tried 3 different mouses but I am still not happy with the result:
1. Zowie ec2-b. There was an issue with coil whine which I eventually solved with RMA. Although the buttons are still terrible. the mouse feels like a cheap crap.
2. Steelseries rival 310. In general the mouse is fine but the quality is an issue. The rubber sides went off in 5 months. The replacement which I received had an issue with a double click. I am still in process of the second RMA.
3. New intellimouse classic.The quality is alright. The buttons are fine. The sensor is a pile of poo


----------



## ToTheSun!

Wired G403 meets every requirement you have with the exception of height (132 vs 124).
The cable isn't the best, though.


----------



## silentLightning

finally!
Whats your grip style: fingertip, 2 fingers on top, thumb on left side, ring finger on right, pinky kinda floating lightly touching mousepad and side of mouse sometimes.

Whats your sensitivity: 2000 to 3000 currently on 2800.

whats your maxium budget: reasonable $50?

Do you want additional buttons: yes 2 at each side

What games do you play: open world- Day z, medival 2 and mods, Arma 2 and 3, modern naval/air operations, fleet command, eaw an foc. few others on the list ill stop there.

Other revelant information: PAY ATTENTION THIS IS THE MAIN ONE ( put the optical sensor towards the FRONT of the mouse NOT in the middle!) like right under the area of the mouse wheel. or at least right behind it. currently using steel series rival 310 havent found any mouse i like yet. trying the rival 110 next, its in route.


----------



## alex667

What's your grip style?
Claw / or Finger 

What's your maximum budget?
100€ / 90 USD

Do you want additional buttons?
2 Buttons on the right side please

What games do you play?
FPS Games (CSGO, Destiny2, Battlefield V and soon FF14)

Do you mind about prediction?
no prediction, flawless sensors only

Other relevant information:
- *high* button activation force (like the zowie huano switches)
- small size = better (said no women ever)
- ambidextrous only

my favorite mouse so far was the Zowie FK Pro '14 but I couldn't use it anymore when I moved it too fast, the cursor would spin out.
right now using the fk2 but somehow I dont like it. softer mouse clicks than any other zowie mouse I've had so far, shape could be even a little bit smaller i dont know.. 
I thought of getting the new zowie mice (i think they are called divina) but mouse buttons on the left side only sucks, cuz I'm lefthanded

Thanks for help


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Looking for a Razer Copperhead or Diamndback mouse with a optical sensor and a decent weight. Any one seen one? Thanks!


----------



## orangur

*What's your grip style?*
Fingertip
*What's your sensitivity?*
High 800dpi
*What's your maximum budget?*
N/A
*Do you want additional buttons?*
Thumb buttons are nice
*What games do you play?*
FPS(Overwatch, quake), osu! 
*Do you mind about prediction?*
Preferably none
*Other relevant information:*
Using a G903 right now. Would prefer something lighter and with a better shape, it feels a bit too long(?) for me. FPSs are ok but when I do quick movements (in osu for example) 
the mouse shifts a bit in my hand.


----------



## marand97

What do you think of Glorious mouse model O mouse ? Are the holes a good solution to make the mouse lighter and more efficient?Please ell me more about the topic.
From what I heard food particles might get into the holes, and epidermis might also get stuck there. Does it still disqualify the slimmest gamer mouse?


https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-model-o-black


----------



## hza

It's easier and cheaper to reduce weight of mice that way. Add some marketing and you have a market for it. Cheap and simple.


----------



## marand97

Hi,
I am searching for a new mouse since my old one is running down. I am currently using Razer Basilisk and was thinking of Steelseries Rival 300 or DM2 Comfy S from Dream Machines. My hands are 19X10 and the grip is Claw or Palm depeding. I am right handed but an ambidextrious mouse is a solutoin to. The games I play are CIV, Tropico and for a more dynamic pick I play The Witcher 3 and Watchdogs. Can anyone compare and realate to these models?


----------



## gpvecchi

I can't really find a mouse that suits my hand (20x9,5) and fingertip grip. It should be the lightest possible, I had an Air58 and it was not bad, but that damned scroll wheel broke...


----------



## marand97

gpvecchi said:


> I can't really find a mouse that suits my hand (20x9,5) and fingertip grip. It should be the lightest possible, I had an Air58 and it was not bad, but that damned scroll wheel broke...



I know you were thinking of lighter nice though for the FPS gaming I can reccomend you https://dreammachines.pl/en/dm1fps
Very good scrool. Balanced well. Neat design nd performance thnks to the Pixart 3389 Sensor. It's compared to finalmouse on the Eurogamer site.
Very descent mouse.


----------



## marand97

Sorry double upload.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Hi! 

I don't know how often this question comes up, but is there any mice out there with a sape similar to the G303 with a decent sensor?
I've tried the G Pro but its shape just feels weird. 

I found the Asus TUF M5. Haven't tried it yet, but its shape seem really close the g303. 
(Side note: I'm buyin G303's if you have any. From hungary btw.) 

Many thanks for your help!


----------



## m1hka

MaTpr0F said:


> Hi!
> 
> I don't know how often this question comes up, but is there any mice out there with a sape similar to the G303 with a decent sensor?
> I've tried the G Pro but its shape just feels weird.
> 
> I found the Asus TUF M5. Haven't tried it yet, but its shape seem really close the g303.
> (Side note: I'm buyin G303's if you have any. From hungary btw.)
> 
> Many thanks for your help!


Logitech G302 
Very cheap on aliexpress btw.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Thanks for your answer! 
Is it as good as the 303 in fps games? Would I notice the difference?


----------



## m1hka

It has the same sensor as G100s. It's okay unless you have ridiculously low sensitivity and also has much higher lift-off distance than g303.


----------



## marand97

Hi guys I am not sure how to realate to this but G303 is compared to DM1 Pro S as well as FK2- i think it might be a very good alternative.


Below I am attaching a review for you to see:



http://keyboardmouse.co/daily-driver-mouse-comparison/


What do you think?


----------



## MaTpr0F

I had all 3 mice, for me the G303 was the best. I can't explain why. I just love the shape and curse the day I sold my 303.


----------



## marand97

MaTpr0F said:


> I had all 3 mice, for me the G303 was the best. I can't explain why. I just love the shape and curse the day I sold my 303.



From your words i can only judge that by "the best" you mean a shape and design that you are hyped on. But how about the brand? how about the specs? I know Logitech uses hero sensors. THough it's just a brand and after all as I looked inside you can get same or even better specs in DM1 Pro S. You won't overpay at least and that's important. Besides If you are from Hungary you can buy Dream Machines locally from Pixel 


Here's the link to the website: http://pixel.hu/gamer-cuccok/eger.html?manufacturer=278


----------



## MaTpr0F

As I said, I had the DM one too. I'm not hyped on the brand or anything, I was very sceptic when I bought the 303. Yes, maybe it's odd shape fits me well thats why it's soo good. But it's accuracy (3360) and click feel is great. I tried quite a few mice after I sold it but even among Logitech this spring tension system on the main buttons worked best on the 303. I tried the G403, G Pro, G102 (and many other brand) and now I have a G603. Luckily I found a guy who sold me two 303s. So I'm stocked up and gonna' take care of them.


----------



## marand97

MaTpr0F said:


> As I said, I had the DM one too. I'm not hyped on the brand or anything, I was very sceptic when I bought the 303. Yes, maybe it's odd shape fits me well thats why it's soo good. But it's accuracy (3360) and click feel is great. I tried quite a few mice after I sold it but even among Logitech this spring tension system on the main buttons worked best on the 303. I tried the G403, G Pro, G102 (and many other brand) and now I have a G603. Luckily I found a guy who sold me two 303s. So I'm stocked up and gonna' take care of them.



I got your point. So in this case as it comes to wireless mouse would you reccomend me buying the G305? I am thinking of buying it for myself, though got doubts and want some feedback. I heard a lot about the Hero Sensors - not sure wheather they are just as good as wired mouse.


----------



## 508859

marand97 said:


> Hi guys I am not sure how to realate to this but G303 is compared to DM1 Pro S as well as FK2- i think it might be a very good alternative.
> 
> 
> Below I am attaching a review for you to see:
> 
> 
> 
> http://keyboardmouse.co/daily-driver-mouse-comparison/
> 
> 
> What do you think?


no mouse is an alternative to g303, there is no reason to buy dm1 Pro S when dm1 FPS exists, and there is no reason to buy FK mouse at all when so many better products exist on a market.


----------



## MaTpr0F

marand97 said:


> I got your point. So in this case as it comes to wireless mouse would you reccomend me buying the G305? I am thinking of buying it for myself, though got doubts and want some feedback. I heard a lot about the Hero Sensors - not sure wheather they are just as good as wired mouse.


My G603 is amazing when it comes to performance. It never felt less accurate compared to the wired 3360/hero. So I don't think the wireless is a downgrade compared to the wired Hero. 

I've used the G Pro for a long time, its a good shape, many people love it. For me (after the G303 of course) it felt odd but can't explain why. As I heard some of those who liked the g100s shape has the same feeling about it. 
I suggest that you should try the G305 out. If you don't like it just send it back.


----------



## marand97

numberfive said:


> no mouse is an alternative to g303, there is no reason to buy dm1 Pro S when dm1 FPS exists, and there is no reason to buy FK mouse at all when so many better products exist on a market.



I recently saw on Polish facebook that Dream Machines are into their new project of mouse. Thry have more up to date stuff going on there. Hope they only won't follow that trend with holed mouse because honestly I am already done with these. 


https://www.facebook.com/dreammachi...372949115060/2407015919517422/?type=3&theater.


As I look at this shape it resembles me the good old Rival 600. Liked this mouse a lot and if it's similar to this one then I am up for it


----------



## MaTpr0F

Seems more like a FM classic ergo shape.


----------



## marand97

MaTpr0F said:


> Seems more like a FM classic ergo shape.











You meant this one? I am not sure. Only hope it's suitable for people with wide hands , baecause I have such issue


----------



## m1hka

Looks very similar to Roccat Kain 120.


----------



## MaTpr0F

marand97 said:


> You meant this one? I am not sure. Only hope it's suitable for people with wide hands , baecause I have such issue


Yep, that one. As far as I know ( not sure ) DM use oem shells for their mice, thats why I think it's the CE shell. I've seen it on noname chinese mice.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
I love my Redragon perdition best mid 30.us range mouse I've ever used software is cool too 
https://www.newegg.com/redragon-m90...gaming-mouse-white-usb-wired/p/173-006N-00001
Black and red of course


----------



## 508859

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I love my Redragon perdition best mid 30.us range mouse I've ever used software is cool too
> https://www.newegg.com/redragon-m90...gaming-mouse-white-usb-wired/p/173-006N-00001
> Black and red of course


this mouse belongs to a trash zone


----------



## ThrashZone

numberfive said:


> this mouse belongs to a trash zone


Hi,
You obviously don't know squat about mice :doh:


----------



## 508859

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You obviously don't know squat about mice :doh:


I'm not the one that doesn't know that

- laser based sensors are trash

- redragon mice are trash

- 150gram mice are trash

you would know SOMETHING about mice if you would have a decent one once in your life.


----------



## HiCZoK

I am a LONG time logitech g400 user, so I am a 1-3-1 fingertip user.
Right click is failing on me after all those years, The weirght with 130g is probably ancient and bad nowadays and the cable is stiff.
I have aabout 20x11cm hands. There are not much 1-3-1 fingertip mice. I've tried g603 but it was heavy and it was sliding off. There was no grip for pinky.
So now, I am looking at either new mx518, razer viper or maybe divina S1 ? I always hate cables so wireless mouse would probably be sweet too


----------



## the1freeMan

numberfive said:


> ThrashZone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> You obviously don't know squat about mice :doh:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the one that doesn't know that
> 
> - laser based sensors are trash
> 
> - redragon mice are trash
> 
> - 150gram mice are trash
> 
> you would know SOMETHING about mice if you would have a decent one once in your life.
Click to expand...

What bothers me is how someone can be so unaware to enter the ocn mouse section without knowing the ins and outs of mouse sensors and design and just talk like they know stuff.
It's not the first time this happens. What's worse is that they are ocn users form other sections and think they can just talk about mice without doing the research.
It's mind boggling. Like that crazy guy who was defending and adns 9800 mouse quoting generic hardaware site reviews from 10 years ago as if they actually were a valid source of information.
In front of people who actually know how mice work. Adding insult to injury, he actually got moderation on his side because of the word "professional" gravely abused in the forum's guidelines.
Professionalism implies knowing how to learn and talking about stuff you actually research and understand.

The way this and the other guy write is indeed offensive, the moment you know the topic. So why bashing them is considered offensive and their posts are not? Whatever the answer I will never agree.
Is it more offensive for an ignorant to tell someone who knows better that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or to tell someone who is being stupid that he is being stupid?
Of course you need adequate knowledge to understand who is being stupid and who is not.
Judgement on such things should be reserved for people who actually wrote in this section for the last 5+ years not random pc "enthusiasts" who never put the adequate amount of time and research in this topic.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Have have two of these mice and one for four years and the other for two never a hitch software just works
If one wants to get into deep tech's of mice I just have to say best tech is usage and for that reason mine are best I've used out of many.

So yeah when someone comes out of nowhere and comes off like it's crap/ trash it's silly seeing I use them and obviously they haven't so who's to believe


----------



## 508859

ThrashZone said:


> So yeah when someone comes out of nowhere and comes off like it's crap/ trash it's silly seeing I use them and obviously they haven't so who's to believe


what you missed here is that he was talking about your ignorance and lack of knowledge on anything related to mice. 



ThrashZone said:


> Have have two of these mice and one for four years and the other for two never a hitch software just works
> If one wants to get into deep tech's of mice I just have to say best tech is usage and for that reason mine are best I've used out of many.


if mouse is still working after many years it is not a characteristic of how good or bad it is. in your particular case, you used very few mice and only ****ty ones. how is your opinion on mice is relevant if you cannot compare your ****ty mice to others that are actually good? you are blinded by your lack of knowledge and experience.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Believe he/ she might of referred to your childish rudeness 
Welcome to my ignore list congrats not too many people make the bar :thumb:


----------



## 508859

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Believe he/ she might of referred to your childish rudeness
> Welcome to my ignore list congrats not too many people make the bar :thumb:


as shown above, you believe in a lot of trash and I do not expect you to connect the dots by yourself


----------



## Nawafwabs

I want same shape as razer atheris

It really good for me but laggy


----------



## the1freeMan

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Believe he/ she might of referred to your childish rudeness
> Welcome to my ignore list congrats not too many people make the bar :thumb:


I was referring to both but yeah numberfive is a child troll who just picks fights with no real constructive reason behind it so yeah just ignore him/her.
When I critique it's always for a reason, not just to dis people.
You demonstrated maturity where numberfive just keeps randomly insulting people without really understanding the nature of conflicts, so yeah just ignore him.

What I'm saying is that you can know all there is in the world about gpu overclocking for example, but that doesn't mean you know anything about mice.
And durability is like the last of people's concerns when evaluating a mouse's performance. It's like saying my pc has been running for 12+years, it must be the best ever!
I like to believe you're smart enough you already realized that.


----------



## ThrashZone

the1freeMan said:


> I was referring to both but yeah numberfive is a child troll who just picks fights with no real constructive reason behind it so yeah just ignore him/her.
> When I critique it's always for a reason, not just to dis people.
> You demonstrated maturity where numberfive just keeps randomly insulting people without really understanding the nature of conflicts, so yeah just ignore him.
> 
> What I'm saying is that you can know all there is in the world about gpu overclocking for example, but that doesn't mean you know anything about mice.
> And durability is like the last of people's concerns when evaluating a mouse's performance. It's like saying my pc has been running for 12+years, it must be the best ever!
> I like to believe you're smart enough you already realized that.


Hi,
Indeed 
I never said I knew anything technical about mice just that redragon has worked very well for a 35.us mouse 
I've used many mostly junk basic mice so 

Weight is adjustable
All the side buttons albeit micros or what ever can't be used i do use quite a few of them for everyday stuff browser related


----------



## the1freeMan

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Indeed
> I never said I knew anything technical about mice just that redragon has worked very well for a 35.us mouse
> I've used many mostly junk basic mice so
> 
> Weight is adjustable
> All the side buttons albeit micros or what ever can't be used i do use quite a few of them for everyday stuff browser related


As much as an mmo mouse is not an fps mouse basic principles still apply. That mouse is uselessly heavy, even without the weights and uses and adns 9800 sensor, which has the worse input lag out of all sensors on the market.
It also doubles cpi in the microcontroller in order to double the sensors native maximum. That means that all cpi above 8200 skips pixels.
I can tell you all this just by looking at the specs. Many others here could as well.
At the price point you mention most would suggest a g203 because it's simply on another class compared to competitors.
I wouldn't know what to suggest if you need all those buttons, most users tend to value mice for precision aiming rather than 12 buttons


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Oddly "knock on wood" I have not experienced any issues 
I don't game near as much anymore as I used too nothing to do with mouse fuction more to do with priorities


----------



## Vlada011

I have amazing Logitech G900 mouse but I listen a lot about Logitech G502 mouse, first model, wired, withour Hero16k Sensor and his great build and quality.
Actually that's maybe most famouse gaming mouse. Later Logitech launch G502 Hero wired, and later G502 Hero Wireless... I would like to know is it quality, durability same or these new mouse suffer from some flaws not visible on first original version. Very often with hardware such things happen.
If not maybe G502 Wireless is best mouse of that shape and I would like to have one for backup. What you think. 
Because usually I could find them for 80-90 euro, same as G900. 
His Fast Scroll is necessary for me and because of that G Pro example is not option.
And Scroll type on G502, G900, G903 and similar models is best Scroll type on market without doubt. 
Even dirt is very hard to stay on that. Once per week with alcohol and scroll is like new, except I don't use Middle Mouse Button in games. 
Always change on side buttons.
If someone have both original G502 first model and newest G502 Lighspeed and could confirm they are same except more precise and wireless that would be very nice to hear.


----------



## jigglylizard

*Need new reliable mouse*

Hi all,

I am looking for a reliable gaming mouse. Budget is $80. I have a palm grip with small-ish hands so I like small mice. My favorite ever was an MX518. I use my computer 12-14 hours a day for work and gaming. I have a G603 but the mouse wheel is wonky and will often scroll the opposite way (even with updates).

I don't want anything from Razer: I have gone through 3 Razer deathadders in 2 years (2 from RMA). They have not been reliable in my experience.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thank you.


----------



## Klopfer

Logitech G MX518 Legendary ( HERO Sensor )
Nixeus Revel Fit ( pmw 3360 Sensor )


----------



## jigglylizard

Klopfer said:


> Logitech G MX518 Legendary ( HERO Sensor )
> Nixeus Revel Fit ( pmw 3360 Sensor )


Thanks a lot for these suggestions!

I"ll give the Nixeus Revel Fit a try since it's on sale and reviews are great. It's good to know they brought back the MX518; I'm ecstatic and might buy one later as well.


----------



## Klopfer

Software for the Nixeus Revel works for the Revel Fit too


----------



## JackCY

Does Nixeus even have a single original product design? XD Or is it all copies.


----------



## HiCZoK

How about wireless 1-3-1 mouse for 20x11cm hands? At this size there seems to be only mamba wireless?


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

How are the options for comfort focused mice these days? I haven't been in the market for a while and it seems much more raw performance focused than it used to be, having trouble finding something to my spec.
Hands are 8x4''(20.3x10.2cm.) Can't stand soft-touch materials, rubburized sides are fine, just the coating you get on mouse buttons/palm rest makes my skin crawl. Play top down games @ 4K/30-60FPS so sensor isn't important. Higher weight preferred.

Have owned a couple G500s which hurt(pressure from the hump at base of fingers,) a Theron which seems a bit narrow, owned a RAT 7(think I sold it because of a pressure point like the G500, and I got into gaming on an Abyssus which I loved but I don't play FPS games these days and want a larger mouse.
I daily a Xornet.. I've been using fingertip grip to avoid full contact with ST materials and because I've owned a number of mice that didn't quite fit right. I'd call it more a cope than a preferred style. I'll adapt my grip for better comfort. I ideally want my wrist level with my arm which means resting my palm on the back of a mouse vs the pad with my current setup.


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## 508859

RedCloudFuneral said:


> How are the options for comfort focused mice these days? I haven't been in the market for a while and it seems much more raw performance focused than it used to be, having trouble finding something to my spec.
> Hands are 8x4''(20.3x10.2cm.) Can't stand soft-touch materials, rubburized sides are fine, just the coating you get on mouse buttons/palm rest makes my skin crawl. Play top down games @ 4K/30-60FPS so sensor isn't important. Higher weight preferred.
> 
> Have owned a couple G500s which hurt(pressure from the hump at base of fingers,) a Theron which seems a bit narrow, owned a RAT 7(think I sold it because of a pressure point like the G500, and I got into gaming on an Abyssus which I loved but I don't play FPS games these days and want a larger mouse.
> I daily a Xornet.. I've been using fingertip grip to avoid full contact with ST materials and because I've owned a number of mice that didn't quite fit right. I'd call it more a cope than a preferred style. I'll adapt my grip for better comfort. I ideally want my wrist level with my arm which means resting my palm on the back of a mouse vs the pad with my current setup.


you need a palmable mouse, like deathadded elite or one of later roccat with owl eye sensor, or zowie EC-B series, or (sorry for this) g502


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## RedCloudFuneral

numberfive said:


> you need a palmable mouse, like deathadded elite or one of later roccat with owl eye sensor, or zowie EC-B series, or (sorry for this) g502


Thanks for your advice. I checked out the mice in question and decided on the CM MM830. Seems similar in size/shape to your recommendations with a thumb rest, PBT plastics, and a good price.
I was close to buying either the Zowie EC-B(glossy) or Logitech G604 but couldn't justify the prices.


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## the1freeMan

JackCY said:


> Does Nixeus even have a single original product design? XD Or is it all copies.


Why would they? Designing stuff is expensive and the shapes they chose are really good.
They'd probably make worse designs if they redid them 
Based on the revel I'd complain about the build quality, button design, timing instability and software fonts and translations.. everything but the shapes lol.


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## MaTpr0F

Hi Everyone! 

Is there any major difference between the G903 nad G903 lightspeed? In terms of Battery life for example.


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## marand97

MaTpr0F said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> Is there any major difference between the G903 nad G903 lightspeed? In terms of Battery life for example.



Hi, from what I 've read Lightspeed Hero the newest one has battery runtime up till 8 days? whatever is possible, and higher DPI (16000). not sure if I answered your question though that's all I found so far.


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## MaTpr0F

marand97 said:


> Hi, from what I 've read Lightspeed Hero the newest one has battery runtime up till 8 days? whatever is possible, and higher DPI (16000). not sure if I answered your question though that's all I found so far.


Yep, thank you. 8 days seems pretty decent for a built in battery. I'll give it a try when amazon slaps a sale on it.


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## MaTpr0F

Is Mad Catz a good mouse in terms of build quality these days? 
8+ is on sale and it seems really interesting how much you can customize the shape of the mouse itself. I don't really care about weight, since I'm not sitting behind a desk all day, so I have no trouble moving around 120+ grams.


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## 508859

MaTpr0F said:


> Yep, thank you. 8 days seems pretty decent for a built in battery. I'll give it a try when amazon slaps a sale on it.


my GPW hero had ~83h of use when fully charged. which was like 6 weeks of daily gaming sessions and basic usage


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## munchzilla

in case I've missed some in my search... 

any egg-shaped mice that are slightly larger than the zowie MiCO? G203 has those weird sides unfortunately.

I'm looking for something that isn't wider in the front or rear, but more towards the center.
light weight (sub 80g) would be fantastic but not sure if I can find anything at all.

good cable, low LOD, "flawless" sensor, nice and very light clicks with no pre-travel, would be really nice bonuses too.

really struggling to find something that is simply good enough because I seem to be in such a tiny minority for my mouse preferences... :|


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## x7007

Hi, I have the G502 Hero and I want to replace it with better mouse because this one has Left Mouse Click issue and I don't trust Logitech with their no Lift-Off settings on the Hero model..why Logitech....?


What's your grip style? I usually use Fingertip and Claw for my gaming and windows desktop
What's your sensitivity? usually around 800-1200
What's your maximum budget? can go 100$ but if there is good mouse that cost more and has everything please say so.
Do you want additional buttons? Yes, if possible Sniper button and all the usual ones. should have the option to use the Middle button to scroll left and right and fast/slow scroll the same as G502.
What games do you play? Strategy, FPS, just everything
Do you mind about prediction? I don't want Acceleration or Prediction


I need it to have Life-Off option because I am planning using these mouse feet
https://www.amazon.com/Lexip-Cerami...07MW5XJ8G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I am Righty so ambidextrous doesn't matter
Weight should be not very heavy, don't mind much
Don't really need Wireless, I have the G903 for that kind of things.
I would want a smooth cable that doesn't have friction on my SteelSeries I-2 Mouse pad. cable that is good like the paracord.
Need it to have Low Latency


Anything else should be like G502 or so, good sensor.


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## marand97

x7007 said:


> Hi, I have the G502 Hero and I want to replace it with better mouse because this one has Left Mouse Click issue and I don't trust Logitech with their no Lift-Off settings on the Hero model..why Logitech....?
> 
> 
> What's your grip style? I usually use Fingertip and Claw for my gaming and windows desktop
> What's your sensitivity? usually around 800-1200
> What's your maximum budget? can go 100$ but if there is good mouse that cost more and has everything please say so.
> Do you want additional buttons? Yes, if possible Sniper button and all the usual ones. should have the option to use the Middle button to scroll left and right and fast/slow scroll the same as G502.
> What games do you play? Strategy, FPS, just everything
> Do you mind about prediction? I don't want Acceleration or Prediction
> 
> 
> I need it to have Life-Off option because I am planning using these mouse feet
> https://www.amazon.com/Lexip-Cerami...07MW5XJ8G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> I am Righty so ambidextrous doesn't matter
> Weight should be not very heavy, don't mind much
> Don't really need Wireless, I have the G903 for that kind of things.
> I would want a smooth cable that doesn't have friction on my SteelSeries I-2 Mouse pad. cable that is good like the paracord.
> Need it to have Low Latency
> 
> 
> Anything else should be like G502 or so, good sensor.



Hi I cwould honestly reccomend you the Dream Machiens Latest Release , the DM5 Blink. It has a sniper button , It doesn't cost a lot and at the same time has very percise pixart sensor and shoelace cable wchich does not generate friction between the mouse Pad and at the same time allows you to have an ideal balance betweek speed and control without any compromise. I am saying that because I used this mouse for some time ( as I got it preordered) and I can say it feels smooth  Similar to Razer Basilisk but IMO better designed.



https://dreammachines.io/en/dm5blink


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## shocker94

Hello, i want to replace my sensei 310, because have some tracking issue with very low movement. I've tried a rival 600, but i play with low dpi(800) and the mouse is very slippery...
I'm fingertip and i prefer low DPI. What can i take? I was looking to razer viper and glorious model 0, but the price is a bit too high.


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## MaTpr0F

Hi! 

I would like to ask your help. 

I'm looking for a 3360 (or one of its variants) mouse with ring, or ring and pinky finger rest. 
Besides the Naos QG. 
My hands are around 19 cm with relaxed palm-claw hybrid grip. 

Thank you for your help!


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## Klopfer

Dreammachines DM2 Comfy S


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## MaTpr0F

Thank you, I didn't know about this mouse. Unfortunately I don't like this shape. Anything else maybe? A good laser one would do, if there is no other option and the overall quality is good.


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## jawn

the Mionix Castor?
https://www.amazon.com/Mionix-MNX-01-26004-G-Castor-Black-Ergonomic/dp/B06ZXWBN8P


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## arandomguy

Need a cheap ($40 CAD/$30 USD is already pushing it, would prefer even lower) as possible "beater" (for 6 months) that is small and completely portable (setup on my PC, nothing left behind or prompts on other PCs). It's also going to be used on hard desk surface and just thrown in a bag (so nothing with holes).

Palm grip (closest, slightly claw). Main mouse currently is a Kone Owl Eye at home, but I'm using a G300S (that's falling apart) for this purpose currently (inconsistent clocking sometimes, double clicks, shell noticeably unstable).

I'm going to be using it for remote work including playing SP games remotely (streamed from my home PC). Tracking precision itself isn't really that important, performance is more latency driven (which is why not a basic office mouse).

The current options I've looked into -

G203 - $20 CAD. This is the cheapest. The only problem is from what I remember trying it before how the shell is shaped at back is wider and taller (as opposed to sloping down) compared to the other mice I'm used to. Eg see this comparison - Shape Compare

Maybe I'm in a minority in terms of how I squeeze the palm/palm heel area and sometimes even use that palm heel as an anchor, but that shape prevents it.

G305 - $40 CAD. This is wireless which has it's draws (including being able to give it away to a family member after 6 months). Same shape problem as above.

Razer Viper Mini - $40 CAD. It's kind of "expensive" as I don't think I could repurpose it. Also some concerns regarding the software (Synapse requirements), and LoD issue.

Roccat Burst Core - ??? maybe $40 CAD??. Same price borderline as above. Also it's not yet available and price is not clear. Same LoD issue as above?


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## dlul

arandomguy said:


> G305 - $40 CAD. This is wireless which has it's draws (including being able to give it away to a family member after 6 months). Same shape problem as above.
> 
> Razer Viper Mini - $40 CAD. It's kind of "expensive" as I don't think I could repurpose it. Also some concerns regarding the software (Synapse requirements), and LoD issue.
> 
> Roccat Burst Core - ??? maybe $40 CAD??. Same price borderline as above. Also it's not yet available and price is not clear. Same LoD issue as above?


I used a Kone pure owl eye for long, i got the viper mini and the g203.
Only buy the viper mini if you are ok with a smaller shape: it fills the hand a lot less and your grip will have to move towards fingertip with some palm in contact. I find it really comfortable for everyday but the lightness and the small shape makes it too hard to control for competitive fps gaming. (for me)
The G203/old gpro inward sides forces you to grip the mouse higher up but then the sides buttons become a problem. My hand is 8cm wide at the knuckles and the shape isnt too wide for palming
You can probably make either shape work but not like the kpoe.
Roccat burst i never tried, but I have WMOs and if it is close to that shape it will fill your hand a lot more. Looking at the shape comparison on the website it is probably the closest to the kpoe but will probably feel fuller in the hard due to the lack of comfort grooves and the symetrical shape.


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## SevenFreak

Hi,

Hope you could give me some suggestions, I´m looking over and over and can´t find something.

I love the shape of the G100S and bought of course the wired Pro at it´s release but it´s just not the same and not as comfortable as the G100S. Bought afterwards the wireless Pro but I want to find something which fits better. Currently using a G502 which is fine for daily work at the PC, office stuff but the aim isn´t the same as it could be with an ambidextrous mouse shape like the G100S.

Palm Grip
600DPI
Budget: No specific limit right now
Mainly playing Tarkov and almost only FPS in general
Hand measurements: 18,5cm / 10,5cm
Did some one compare the Glorious Model O- to the G100S?

Thank you


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## SevenFreak

Any suggestions would be helpful. I´ve tested in the meanwhile the Xtrfy M42 but unfortunately its also not really comfortable...


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## Leopardi

SevenFreak said:


> Any suggestions would be helpful. I´ve tested in the meanwhile the Xtrfy M42 but unfortunately its also not really comfortable...


G90 2017 refresh from ebay? It's a newer version of G100s. Only comes with plastic feet, so you need to buy better ones.


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## nlse

SevenFreak said:


> Any suggestions would be helpful. I´ve tested in the meanwhile the Xtrfy M42 but unfortunately its also not really comfortable...





Leopardi said:


> G90 2017 refresh from ebay? It's a newer version of G100s. Only comes with plastic feet, so you need to buy better ones.


Noticed you get tendons problem with the M42 from the left click buttons , even strain as its not ergonomic enough

possible the shape and the comfortgrooves, down slope

May be the same a bit with the Zy mouse too


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## SevenFreak

Leopardi said:


> G90 2017 refresh from ebay? It's a newer version of G100s. Only comes with plastic feet, so you need to buy better ones.


Thank you, ordered the G90 from ebay, only downside is it doesnt have any Thumb-buttons. Corsair Katar Pro XT also looks similiar, maybe I can find it somewhere in a shop. In addition the Corsair Ironclaw was also quite comfortable today in a shop (was just looking and testing around but didnt have much mice there).

I´ll keep looking - I do know most of the mods for the G100S (PCB from G502 or PCB from G303) but all those are just without the Thumb-Buttons and after all the years I dont wanna play without them ;/. I´m even thinking about to work with a CAD-engineer together to construct the Sidebutton mount from the G Pro for the G100s.



nlse said:


> Noticed you get tendons problem with the M42 from the left click buttons , even strain as its not ergonomic enough
> 
> possible the shape and the comfortgrooves, down slope
> 
> May be the same a bit with the Zy mouse too


I will just resell the M42 since it feels weird, for me the angle for my middle finger doesnt feel good which the mouse forces for the right button. Also curious about Zy´s mouse.


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## plath

G Pro hero is on sale. but my experience with Logitech is that the lmb/rmb switches always double click after 2-3 years. is it going to be the same do you think? 

what's the best mouse with similar shape? Glorious PC Gaming Race Model O-?


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## the1freeMan

plath said:


> G Pro hero is on sale. but my experience with Logitech is that the lmb/rmb switches always double click after 2-3 years. is it going to be the same do you think?
> 
> what's the best mouse with similar shape? Glorious PC Gaming Race Model O-?


I've had my g pro 3366 for 3 years and a half. Still perfect. Maybe you put too much force in your clicks. I never have double click problems on any mouse in over 10 years.


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## Reytuki

F u r u y a said:


> *[Official] The Mouse Suggestion Thread*​
> 
> Congrats guys, we've now made the mouse suggestion thread a sticky.
> 
> Every day we receive multiple threads where people ask for mouse suggestions. Since these threads come up so often, this thread will act as a hub for suggestions.
> 
> This will:
> 
> Help buyers get their questions noticed. Many times these individual mouse suggestion threads are ignored because there are so many of them.
> Help knowledgeable members give advice in one consolidated location
> 
> To prospective buyers, please list the *top 1-2 attributes* you're looking for in a mouse. Additionally, answer the below questions to the best of your abilities. The more detailed you are, the better we can find a mouse that suits your needs.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:
> Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> 
> *You can copy the questions into your post from here.* (Click to show)Code:
> 
> What's your grip style?
> What's your sensitivity?
> What's your maximum budget?
> Do you want additional buttons?
> What games do you play?
> Do you mind about prediction?
> Other relevant information:Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
> 
> 
> 
> *Explanations
> 
> 
> Grip*
> Grip style or grip type is the manner with which you hold your mouse. There are three main styles:
> 
> *Claw grip*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fingertip grip*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palm grip*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The grip type allows to choose the shape and weight of the mouse.
> Example: fingertip grippers will most likely want small and lightweight mouses.
> 
> 
> *Sensitivity*
> Sensitivity represents how fast the mouse cursor moves in relation to the mouse physical movement. For FPS games, sensitivity is commonly defined by *distance/360°*. Or, more generally, it's defined by *low*, *mid* or *high* (please refer to the link below if you're not sure).
> Example: 50cm/360° (to make a full 360° turn, it's needed to move the mouse by 50cm). That's an example of a *low* sensitivity.
> 
> The sensitivity allows to choose the dpi of the mouse and, most importantly, it defines the top speed needed.
> Example: low sensitivity players very often hit high speeds; thus, they need a mouse that can support those high speeds without any kind of acceleration or malfunction.
> 
> More info: ESR.
> 
> 
> *Prediction*
> Prediction (aka Angle Snapping, Drift Control, Correction) helps you to draw straight lines: the mouse tracking corrects (removes) the minor deviations from your line, making it as straight as possible, up to certain threshold, which varies from mouse to mouse (some mouse has more prediction than others). Ideally, a mouse should have the option to turn off the prediction, but there are plenty of mice with inherent prediction that can't be turned off.
> 
> _Original thread starter hella - merged for simplicity....Arizonian._



What's your grip style?
Clawgrip

What's your sensitivity?
22.8cm/360

What's your maximum budget?
100$

Do you want additional buttons?
I need side buttons

What games do you play?
Fortnite

Do you mind about prediction?
Yes. I don't want anything that changes my mouse movement. 

Other relevant information:Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc
I really like the rival 100 shape. I was trying to decide between the steelseries rival 3 or steelseries aerox 3. If any of you know which one behaves better in terms of latency etc. Or if you have any suggestions that provide better latency/feel and are a clawgrip shape.


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## hopfenhober

Weight (the lighter, the better!) and shape are what I care about most.

 What's your grip style? --- I use all styles, switching between them on the fly.
 What's your sensitivity? --- Medium.
 What's your maximum budget? --- For the perfect mouse I'd pay up to 150 bucks. Maybe more.
 Do you want additional buttons? --- I absolutely must have an easily reachable thumb button on the left side. The original SteelSeries Kana would be an ideal example of this.
 What games do you play? --- I mainly play RTS and FPS.
 Do you mind about prediction? --- Yes, it annoys me greatly.
I really cannot stand the SteelSeries-style broadened backsides, as they make it hard for me to fingertip. I like mice with straight, vertical sides, rather than curved and/or angled inward or outward. Mice that I have used in the past include the original Razer Diamondback and the HyperX Pulsefire Surge. My favorite mouse ever, based on shape alone would be the Razer Taipan.

Any suggestions much appreciated!


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## jayfkay

hopfenhober said:


> Weight (the lighter, the better!) and shape are what I care about most.
> 
> What's your grip style? --- I use all styles, switching between them on the fly.
> What's your sensitivity? --- Medium.
> What's your maximum budget? --- For the perfect mouse I'd pay up to 150 bucks. Maybe more.
> Do you want additional buttons? --- I absolutely must have an easily reachable thumb button on the left side. The original SteelSeries Kana would be an ideal example of this.
> What games do you play? --- I mainly play RTS and FPS.
> Do you mind about prediction? --- Yes, it annoys me greatly.
> I really cannot stand the SteelSeries-style broadened backsides, as they make it hard for me to fingertip. I like mice with straight, vertical sides, rather than curved and/or angled inward or outward. Mice that I have used in the past include the original Razer Diamondback and the HyperX Pulsefire Surge. My favorite mouse ever, based on shape alone would be the Razer Taipan.
> 
> Any suggestions much appreciated!


look into razer viper mini or roccat burst pro, those shapes seem very similar to taipan


----------



## hopfenhober

jayfkay said:


> look into razer viper mini or roccat burst pro, those shapes seem very similar to taipan


Yes, thank you. They are indeed similar to the Taipan, but they are dissimilar to it in exactly the way that bothers me: the widened/broadened back.


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## Rit

What's your grip style? --- Palm
What's your sensitivity? --- Medium.
What's your maximum budget? --- Under $150 if possible
Do you want additional buttons? ---Something like Logitech G502
What games do you play? --- FPS
Do you mind about prediction? --- Yes, it annoys me greatly.
Currently have the logitech G502. Used batting tape to pad up the spots that I want for more comfort, so looking for a larger mouse with similar features.


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## TrantaLocked

delete


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## Hejj

nvm bought an x12


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## Elrick

Rit said:


> What's your grip style? --- Palm
> What's your sensitivity? --- Medium.
> What's your maximum budget? --- Under $150 if possible
> Do you want additional buttons? ---Something like Logitech G502
> What games do you play? --- FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? --- Yes, it annoys me greatly.
> Currently have the logitech G502. Used batting tape to pad up the spots that I want for more comfort, so looking for a larger mouse with similar features.
> 
> View attachment 2569526


Talk about true commitment here. You should be anointed the OCN wreath of cut price customisation, during these horrendous times.

As long as you still LOVE using your model then stick with it till the bitter end. Don't let anyone else put you down for this selection, because it's the loyalty to one's mouse model that gets noticed easily.

Very easy to be like us, the ones who drop a mouse into the bin for feeling nasty, non-compliant, or plain unworthy of our hands during that time of the month. The rest of us are the Land-fill friends that keep on delivering ever more mice into those wastelands of depravity, known as Capitalism's failure.


----------



## neyon3D

Rit said:


> What's your grip style? --- Palm
> What's your sensitivity? --- Medium.
> What's your maximum budget? --- Under $150 if possible
> Do you want additional buttons? ---Something like Logitech G502
> What games do you play? --- FPS
> Do you mind about prediction? --- Yes, it annoys me greatly.
> Currently have the logitech G502. Used batting tape to pad up the spots that I want for more comfort, so looking for a larger mouse with similar features.
> 
> View attachment 2569526


Now that's a G509 lol 
I'm doing something similar to it's older brother, the G500 now that I've discovered the cause of the issue with it's tracking issues on really slow, small and precise movements. Seems to have been a manufacturing revision somewhere along the line that messed up the sensor assembly (even comes loose like the G303) in the mouse. Many just chalked it up to another poorly tracking laser sensor but I knew better because I had a launch day one and it was perfect. So I spent some time examining one and testing alongside a G9X (which tracks well) and discovered this. Here's what it'll look like.


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## neyon3D

My grip style on this? --- Fingertip
Sensitivity? --- High
What's your maximum budget? --- $200 if it's everything that I need in a mouse.
Do you want additional buttons? --- Yes which is why I favor this mouse. I use all 8 of those extra buttons for utility in FPS games.
What games do you play? --- I mainly enjoy FPS, racing, and fighting but I want to get into others.
Do you mind about prediction? --- I'm not sure what it even feels like.


----------

