# [VC] AMD Radeon R9 290X final specifications, BF4 bundle available for preorder



## Regent Square

Quote:


> AMD Radeon R9 290X Specifications
> One of the stores even posted the final specifications (source):
> 
> GPU Codename - Hawaii
> GPU Process - 28nmlarge
> Stream Processors - 2816
> TMUs - 176
> ROPs - 44
> Base Clock - 800 MHz
> Turbo Clock - 1000 MHz
> VRAM - 4GB GDDR5
> Memory Bus - 512-Bit
> Memory Clock - 1250 MHz (5GHz Effective)
> Memory Bandwidth - 320 GBps
> Power Configuration - 8+6 Pin
> PCB VRM - 5+1+1
> Die Size - 424mm2
> Transistors - 6 billion
> 3D Technology - DirectX 11.2, OpenGL 4.3 and Mantle
> Audio Technology - AMD TrueAudio


http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder

Prepare for $$ lashing out like the water in the waterfall.

No merging this time, this thread is the 1st to be posted on this forum


----------



## ihatelolcats

is that price 1100 USD?


----------



## Jacoblab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> is that price 1100 USD?


I sure hope not...


----------



## Clocknut

Well hello there, this will be as OCable as TITAN


----------



## wstanci3

The specs are certainly satisfactory. But will the price be?


----------



## DADDYDC650

PRIIIIIIIIICE PLLLLEEEEEEAAASSSSE!!!


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> is that price 1100 USD?


More likely 769 $ BF4 included.


----------



## anticommon

Oh hell naw. HELL *NAW*. $1144?

AMD Will be so stupid to launch this for nearly $850 more than the R280X.

*edit* Honestly anything more than $600 is a no-no.


----------



## Roaches

I hope its not $1000....if so, they completely contradict their statement on not tapping into the Ultra Enthusiast market








Now this gives me a better reason to wait for 20nm...ridiculous...


----------



## Stay Puft

I'm calling 649.99 on newegg tomorrow


----------



## Master__Shake

549 ok then


----------



## Regent Square

If it is indeed 600 for BF4 plus Premium, I might pull the trigger.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> If it is indeed 600 for BF4 plus Premium, I might pull the trigger.


And what about 769 $?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> And what about 769 $?


Way too freaking high. I'd rather a 780 at that price


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> And what about 769 $?


The most I can see this skimming by with is $649 with BF4 + Premium.

$600 is a lot more appealing though.

$549 is the goal.

Anything over $650 though, and might as well go with a 780 Classified and OC that thing to bits.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Way too freaking high. I'd rather a 780 at that price


Lol, if you wait until tomorrow( assuming a day time) all the cards will be sold out.

I am a newegg, amazon hunter tonight


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Lol, if you wait until tomorrow( assuming a day time) all the cards will be sold out.
> 
> I am a newegg, amazon hunter tonight


I'm not dumb enough to preorder a card without proper benchmarks and reviews. If i miss out on the 290X's i'll just buy 4 780 Lightnings







An Nvidia price drop is coming so its smart for me to wait


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## zealord

have I missed something or why are people expecting this card to be for preorder tomorrow?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm not dumb enough to preorder a card without proper benchmarks and reviews. If i miss out on the 290X's i'll just buy 4 780 Lightnings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Nvidia price drop is coming so its smart for me to wait


Money wasted by x4


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> is that price 1100 USD?


7299 Swedish Krona equals 1144.10 US Dollar

Not getting my hopes up but that seems high. A proper analysis is under way:

Their GTX 760 is 2349 kr http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/178838-msi_geforce_gtx_760_gaming_oc_2gb__batman_arkham_origins/

ASUS GTX 760 = 2290 kr http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/178024-asus_geforce_gtx_760_2gb_directcu_ii_oc__batman_arkham_origins

MSI GTX 770 = 3349 kr http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/177599-msi_geforce_gtx_770_gaming_2gb__batman_arkham_origins/

EVGA GTX 770 ACX = 3990 kr http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/179953-evga_geforce_gtx_770_acx_2gb/

and their Sapphire HD7950 is 2595 kr http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/161354-sapphire_radeon_hd_7950_3gb/

Price comparison for GTX 770 suggests it runs about 3000-4000 SEK http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=1952159

GTX 780 Classified runs about 6000SEK http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=2071919

as does the GTX 780 Lightning http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=2157476

It's definitely less than the GTX TITAN, which averages about 8500 SEK http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=1683724



so I think that instead of converting to USD we should just call it ~$800 (tops , *for the bundle*) by *interpolation* , taking into account the markup for Sweden & bundle is included in that.

*Sweden has 25% VAT

Hope that helps









- αC


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Money wasted by x4


You cant take it with you when you're dead so my only option is to spend it now


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm not dumb enough to preorder a card without proper benchmarks and reviews. If i miss out on the 290X's i'll just buy *4 780 Lightnings*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Nvidia price drop is coming so its smart for me to wait


4-way 780 hack uses an older driver. Won't work with newer drivers for new games so basically its relegated as a benchmark setup only. Only other way would be for Nvidia to officially allow 4-way 780 but with the Titan Ultra coming out, I'm sure they won't allow this. Lame







. I'm getting tired of Nvidia's constraints and high prices. One of the reasons why I wouldn't mind switching to Hawaii if does better then a 780, Eyefinity is fixed, and drivers have matured a bit. Like you, I'm waiting on the reviews. Amd, make me proud w/ this card!!!!!


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 4-way 780 hack uses an older driver. Won't work with newer drivers for new games so basically its relegated as a benchmark setup only. Only other way would be for Nvidia to officially allow 4-way 780 but with the Titan Ultra coming out, I'm sure they won't allow this.


Huh? Was the "Titan Ultra" confirmed?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 4-way 780 hack uses an older driver. Won't work with newer drivers for new games so basically its relegated as a benchmark setup only. Only other way would be for Nvidia to officially allow 4-way 780 but with the Titan Ultra coming out, I'm sure they won't allow this. Lame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm getting tired of Nvidia's constraints and high prices. One of the reasons why I wouldn't mind switching to Hawaii if does better then a 780, Eyefinity is fixed, and drivers have matured a bit. Like you, I'm waiting on the reviews. Amd, make me proud w/ this card!!!!!


780's can't 4 way?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> Huh? Was the "Titan Ultra" confirmed?


Not by "reliable" sauces.


----------



## PureBlackFire

This store probably just listed the same rumored specs and clock speeds that have been floating around the web for a week now. Does the listed specs math out to 320 GB/s? Nothing is confirmed until AMD confirms it. I saw stores like this list incorrect specs for the gtx680, gtx titan and gtx780 even up until the very day the cards went on sale in the case of the 680 and titan. I will add more speculation to web:

R9 290 specs:

2560 SP (10 CU)
40 ROP
160 TMU
512 bit bus
800mhz core clock
1200 mhz memory clock
$549.99 USD

woosh.


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## MattGordon

I could see the thing selling like hot cakes if the titan did not exist, but if it ends up anywhere near titan territory than this thing is doa.


----------



## MunneY

Man.......... I really wanted to grab a BF4 bundle, but I wont have my money by then!

I'm betting the price is going to make ALOT of people mad


----------



## thestache

That's a huge turbo/boost.

Excited about these things, just release them already AMD.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Man.......... I really wanted to grab a BF4 bundle, but I wont have my money by then!
> 
> I'm betting the price is going to make ALOT of people mad


Santa will disappoint you A LOT


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> This store probably just listed the same rumored specs and clock speeds that have been floating around the web for a week now. Does the listed specs math out to 320 GB/s? Nothing is confirmed until AMD confirms it. I saw stores like this list incorrect specs for the gtx680, gtx titan and gtx780 even up until the very day the cards went on sale in the case of the 680 and titan. I will add more speculation to web:
> 
> R9 290 specs:
> 
> 2560 SP (10 CU)
> 40 ROP
> 160 TMU
> 512 bit bus
> 800mhz core clock
> 1200 mhz memory clock
> $549.99 USD
> 
> woosh.


If the 290 is 549 then the 290X is 649


----------



## Roaches

The feel when moar price speculation incomming...


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## sugarhell

44 rops doesnt make a sense


----------



## sdlvx

Sweden parts seem to be more expensive. 7950 going for about USD$400 if you convert.

There are GTX 780s hitting 7k+ kr on webhallen.
http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/179965-evga_geforce_gtx_780_hydro_copper_3gb/

http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/sok/?Change=1&Text=gtx+780&SectionId=

Most of them hover around 6000kr which is about $900 USD. Newegg has them for about USD$650. So Sweden gets almost a 33% markup from the looks of it.

So divide 1140 by 3 and subtract that number from 1140 and that's probably about what the price will be. So yeah, most of you are right, $760. Maybe it'll come in around $749. That's kind of disappointing as AMD was looking like they weren't going to hit that kind of price point, but it does seem like when AMD Is going to release something good there's leaks of it being super expensive.

I guess time will tell, either AMD is getting greedy again like they did with FX 9000 series or they are going to deliver this thing for $599 or so. They might be thinking they can move some R9 290x with FX CPUs as part of a gaming platform.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> Huh? Was the "Titan Ultra" confirmed?


Its been speculated for a while now. I'm sure this was on Nvidia's back burner in case if Hawaii did better then Titan. Helps them "recapture" the single gpu crown again. Remember that Titan and Titan LE (aka 780) are crippled gpus, so it would be easy to make an Ultra. I'm sure this will be msrp'd ~$1299-1599









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 780's can't 4 way?


With hacked driver 314.xx, you can enable 4-way sli w/ the 780s since this was a pre 780 driver. Though, updates and fixes for 780 to work properly are through the newer drivers which are locked and cannot be hacked to do 4-way. So far, only a few folks have done the hack but merely to run benchmarks.


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## szeged

amd needs to stop teasing and lift that nda already, the waiting is destroying me inside.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If the 290 is 549 then the 290X is 649


we can hope..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> 44 rops doesnt make a sense


don't know how it works either, but 44 ROPs is 4 rops per CU (4 ROPS/256SP or 1 ROP/64SP). it doesn't make any sense if you take the supposed 512 bit bus into account though.


----------



## SikSol

Have to remember though that it is also coming with BF4 + Premium, what premium is like $120 + game is $60. I would imagine the stand alone cards to sale in the $600-$650 range.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SikSol*
> 
> Have to remember though that it is also coming with BF4 + Premium, what premium is like $120 + game is $60. I would imagine the stand alone cards to sale in the $600-$650 range.


At 649 i'm pretty much out. I'll wait to see if Nvidia driops prices and the 770 Ti


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> At 649 i'm pretty much out. I'll wait to see if Nvidia driops prices and the 770 Ti


I'm hopping $599 and I'll make the switch. $649 would be tough to swallow since I know my 780s are gonna depreciate soon. Good thing i got em SC versions


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## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SikSol*
> 
> Have to remember though that it is also coming with BF4 + Premium, what premium is like $120 + game is $60. I would imagine the stand alone cards to sale in the $600-$650 range.


A single game should not justify increasing the price.

I'd rather have the gpu minus the game if it meant it was cheaper overall.


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## TheLAWNOOB

Dude it's not confirmed. Their source is a pre-order site, and right on that it says:
Quote:


> Price, images, product description and release date are preliminary and subject to change.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm hopping $599 and I'll make the switch. $649 would be tough to swallow since I know my 780s are gonna depreciate soon. Good thing i got em SC versions


Why would you switch from a 780? Major sidegrade


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> A single game should not justify increasing the price.
> 
> I'd rather have the gpu minus the game if it meant it was cheaper overall.


Then you should wait for the card only.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Why would you switch from a 780? Major sidegrade


Quad fire and 5x1 Eyefinity with two more Dell 24" 1920x1200s


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## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quad fire and 5x1 Eyefinity with two more Dell 24" 1920x1200s


You probably need a new power supply.

Btw, why didn't you get an i7?


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Then you should wait for the card only.


I wont have the cash for either one anyways. I was just saying that if they try to increase the prices significantly because it's bundled with bf4 than I'll be upset.

I doubt amd would do that though. They don't increase current prices because of the never settle bundle.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quad fire and 5x1 Eyefinity with two more Dell 24" 1920x1200s


You'll definitely need a 4930k to push them properly


----------



## SoloCamo

I just need to know the prices already... want to sell the 7970GE before this hits and they depreciate a lot more


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> You'll definitely need a 4930k to push them properly


No, you don't need a hexacore, what a misconception. Higher resolutions will put more strain on the gpu, not the cpu. Few games take advantage of the extra cores. There's members running quad cores with triple 2560x1440 monitors all the time. I know one member running three Korean 1440s with a couple of 670 4gb and a SB *2600k*. 5x1 1200 pushes slightly less pixels then triple 1440 monitors. Also, check out King4x4's build. He's been running a 3770K on his Korean 1440s ~96hz for a while now (he's on x79 now though).

A quad core (even a lowly i5) will do fine as long it doesn't bottle neck the gpu(s). With an oc of 4.5+ and higher, this should not be an issue.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> I just need to know the prices already... want to sell the 7970GE before this hits and they depreciate a lot more


Better hurry. The 280X's come out next week and they're 299


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Sweden parts seem to be more expensive. 7950 going for about USD$400 if you convert.
> 
> There are GTX 780s hitting 7k+ kr on webhallen.
> http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/179965-evga_geforce_gtx_780_hydro_copper_3gb/


This model is $800 in the states.
Quote:


> http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/sok/?Change=1&Text=gtx+780&SectionId=
> 
> Most of them hover around 6000kr which is about $900 USD. Newegg has them for about USD$650. So Sweden gets almost a 33% markup from the looks of it.


Only 4 of their models (that don't have some extra like headphones with them) are over 6000 SEK and some of them are as low as 4890 SEK so I have no idea how you think they're mostly hovering around 6000.

And the markup is because of the VAT n european countries. I'm not quite sure what it's in Sweden atm but usually they're within a percent of ours and atm VAT here is 24%.


----------



## Forceman

I'm skeptical that it'll have an 800 base clock and then turbo all the way to 1050. That's a very large gap, and the TPU (was it TPU?) leaked benches said that the ES sample used had a BIOS with an 800 clock and a BIOS with a 1050 clock. Sounds like this site just mixed those up, which implies they are just posting the same rumors that everyone else has already seen. Doesn't the 7970 boost like 50 MHz or something? And now this thing is going to go 250 MHz?


----------



## icanhasburgers

512-bit Bus? You're talking major price already.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> You probably need a new power supply.
> 
> Btw, why didn't you get an i7?


I typically run stock clocks so w/ tdp of 250w x4, ~1000w for the gpu and that leaves 350w for the cpu (which Haswell sips power btw), so I'm good. I don't have plans to oc the gpu. Heck, I've only slightly oc'd my 780s once. I know a heavily overclocked x79 setup w/ maxed out 7970s will need something like a 1500w unit. I've ran high end systems. Right now my whole system is pulling about ~900w so I'll be fine w/ quad fire as long as i don't crank the clocks to max on the Hawaiians









btw, I didn't get an i7, this cpu came up first and it overclocks very nice. Plus, I don't miss out not having the extra threads. Few games take advantage of it. I would rather have a cpu that can do 5.0+ and it was cheap, compared to a i7 that may not break 4.5 just to get four more threads.


----------



## Sir Beregond

Sigh. I die a little each time I read a thread about GPU prices. It really is getting out of hand if these speculations end up being correct.


----------



## fineyoung

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I'm skeptical that it'll have an 800 base clock and then turbo all the way to 1050. That's a very large gap, and the TPU (was it TPU?) leaked benches said that the ES sample used had a BIOS with an 800 clock and a BIOS with a 1050 clock. Sounds like this site just mixed those up, which implies they are just posting the same rumors that everyone else has already seen. Doesn't the 7970 boost like 50 MHz or something? And now this thing is going to go 250 MHz?


Why not, the base clock is much lower than any 7970s (100 mhz) the resulting clock is same as for our old 7970.


----------



## fleetfeather

It's priced the same as the EVGA 780 HC
http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/179965-evga_geforce_gtx_780_hydro_copper_3gb/

I'm calling it early, this bundle will hit NA @ US$800


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## coldturkey25466

I am pretty much into this. If newegg does have the preorders tonight at midnight, I will order one. If the card is not as fast as expected, Ill just cancel and order something else.

win win


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fineyoung*
> 
> Why not, the base clock is much lower than any 7970s (100 mhz) the resulting clock is same as for our old 7970.


...the 800 / 1050 GPU speeds may also allow them to show a lower Tdp

...not sure if this had been posted yet:


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...the 800 / 1050 GPU speeds may also allow them to show a lower Tdp
> 
> ...not sure if this had been posted yet:


Darn..... it actually whips titan's butt


----------



## fleetfeather

It's down on valley, so that should keep Alatar + Fateswarm happy at least...


----------



## Jacoblab

Trying to decide if I should get two of these or two hydrocopper classified 780's. Can't wait to see benchmarks.


----------



## Testier

The R9 290X is slower than titan by around 10% in valley........... I do not know....... Thats quite a bit.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> The R9 290X is slower than titan by around 10% in valley........... I do not know....... Thats quite a bit.


Source?


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Source?


Read the chart on top of the page.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Read the chart on top of the page.


Thanks.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

I'm willing to bet this bundle is going to be ~$800-850, and the card itself will be at about $750-800. Going around that website, and comparing their GPU prices on many of them, they seem to generally have around a $200-300 markup on cards if you convert the Krone to dollars, and subtract US prices from theirs. And you generally have to consider that they are high-balling the price a bit.

Like the Gigabyte WF3 GTX 780 = 5190 Kr = $945

US prices are $649 for the same card.

About a $300 difference.

Seems like Nvidia wants a taste of Titan pricing imo.


----------



## Sunreeper

Wait I don't get what the complaining is about isn't this thing rumored to beat a titan? If so 700$ with a game is a good deal and 650$ is just a steal when you compare it to the 1000$ titan.


----------



## provost

because no one is willing to pay $800 for an amd card, at $650, may be, but it would have to crap gold in terms of drivers


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> because no one is willing to pay $800 for an amd card, at $650, may be, but it would have to crap gold in terms of drivers


Some folks paid $999.99 + for the 7970x2 and 7990


----------



## Sunreeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> because no one is willing to pay $800 for an amd card, at $650, may be, but it would have to crap gold in terms of drivers


People aren't willing to spend that much on amd cards yet they are willing to spend thousands on amd multi GPU setups just huuuuhhhh. Amds drivers aren't even bad anymore at least for gaming


----------



## Joa3d43

...Asus Ares 2 (7970 X2 ver) at $1400 ++


----------



## Ghoxt

The ironic part is even if that is $750+ US, these 8000 premium bundles will likely still sell out. It's just the times we live in.


----------



## Dart06

Is it confirmed that Newegg is going to have some pre-orders for the BF4 edition?

If not what sites and around what time? I want one now.


----------



## mcg75

AMD would be doing a huge injustice to the hype they've created by releasing this at anything less than $699.


----------



## 6steven9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Is it confirmed that Newegg is going to have some pre-orders for the BF4 edition?
> 
> If not what sites and around what time? I want one now.


I feel like if you don't know buy now you're already too late


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> I feel like if you don't know buy now you're already too late


Or the lovely users here at OCN can help me out. The preorders in the U.S. haven't started yet.


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> btw, I didn't get an i7, this cpu came up first and it overclocks very nice. *Plus, I don't miss out not having the extra threads. Few games take advantage of it.* I would rather have a cpu that can do 5.0+ and it was cheap, compared to a i7 that may not break 4.5 just to get four more threads.


With 8 core next gen consoles only a month away and 64 bit games starting to become the norm, I think that logic will be false very very soon.


----------



## kot0005

You can pre order it at ncix, newegg, overclockersuk


----------



## davio

I don't understand why people think NVIDIA will drop their prices considering maxwell is around the corner (from all evidence thus far).


----------



## Dart06

Well, I have my laptop open with 3 windows of chrome auto refreshing every 5 seconds for newegg, ncix, and amazon searching for the 290x so let's hope I can see it first and pre-order it.


----------



## anticommon

My refund for my lightning is coming in in a few hours.. hopefully there is still a BF4 version available by then.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> With 8 core next gen consoles only a month away and 64 bit games starting to become the norm, I think that logic will be false very very soon.


We still have yet to see that and most likely it will be a few more years. Pc games sometimes are developed for pc and sometimes dumbed down to pc from a console port. When it does become the norm, most likely your Hexacore will be outgunned by newer tech. Why invest now when your tech may not hold a candle down the road







. For gaming, as it stands now and for the next year or two, a quad core is still a pretty solid choice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davio*
> 
> I don't understand why people think NVIDIA will drop their prices considering maxwell is around the corner (from all evidence thus far).


Its been announced they may drop the price on:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1430755/tpu-nvidia-prepares-two-new-sub-250-skus-price-cuts


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davio*
> 
> I don't understand why people think NVIDIA will drop their prices considering maxwell is around the corner (from all evidence thus far).


If by around the corner you mean in 7+ months, then sure.


----------



## anticommon

2 minutes? please?


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> 2 minutes? please?


Nope. Maybe another hour.


----------



## NJsFinest24

The suspense lol.


----------



## kot0005

It prolly wont be up till business hours .


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Nope. Maybe another hour.


Eh the longer it takes the better off for me anyways, Chase has credited my CC but the funds aren't available yet from my lightning return. Kinda weird but should take no more than 2-3 hours to clear up like it always does.

But as a side note, we shouldn't have to pay for these cards until they actually start shipping them to us... right?


----------



## Slaughterem

I think New egg is a west coast company so it is 9:05 PM there


----------



## Dart06

Anyone else having their browser auto refresh with different windows for the different sites? Seems only fitting.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> It prolly wont be up till business hours .


Yeah let everyone else go to sleep so we can snag them all tonight









This is, of course, given the price isn't crazy high.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Anyone else having their browser auto refresh with different windows for the different sites? Seems only fitting.


No, because if anything I think newegg will offer the best price out of the three. Or they should at least.


----------



## xnorex

I'm using the page monitor chrome plug-in


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> I'm using the page monitor chrome plug-in


Just got it myself lol. Gonna try it out.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> I'm using the page monitor chrome plug-in


What does that do and how are you using it?


----------



## xnorex

It's a plug-in for chrome with which you can assign websites for it to track at it will notify you of any changes to any given page. You can also force it to check all pages at once. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fchrome.google.com%2Fwebstore%2Fdetail%2Fpage-monitor%2Fpemhgklkefakciniebenbfclihhmmfcd%3Fhl%3Den&ei=JO9MUobMLoP-9gSZtYGACg&usg=AFQjCNHCj6SJbqC09olDbnH-AnVbV9gDLA&sig2=lnzCr7LdDrzcPDCfIu0Axw


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I'd honestly be pretty surprised if these showed up for preorder tonight. We shall see though...


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> What does that do and how are you using it?


Its a plug in for Chrome, it will monitor any sites you want for changes. I just added it, pretty cool.


----------



## Pnanasnoic

Type "R9" into Amazon's search box and look what their auto complete shows you. I want to know more about the 280. I'm getting slightly excited I think, maybe, potentially... I'm sure of it.


----------



## yawa

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-battlefield-4-bundle-preorder-specifications-confirmed-benched-3dmark/

Didn't see this here but wccftech is posting a 3d Mark Firestrike benchmark claiming it's the R290X . It's at the end of the article.





Considering the drivers probably aren't even remotely mature, color me impressed.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> What does that do and how are you using it?


Step 1 - Add this Chrome
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/page-monitor/pemhgklkefakciniebenbfclihhmmfcd

Step 2 - Go to a page you want to Monitor.

Step 3 - Click the Page Monitor icon, and then click Monitor this page



Step 4 - Right click the Page Monitor icon, and update the settings, have it check every minute.



This plugin will check several pages for you, without you having to refresh the pages manually.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Maybe I stand corrected. Amazon does appear to be getting the site ready to list the R9 290X.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-battlefield-4-bundle-preorder-specifications-confirmed-benched-3dmark/
> 
> Didn't see this here but wccftech is posting a 3d Mark Firestrike benchmark claiming it's the R290X . It's at the end of the article.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Interesting on the 3gb of vram. But it does show the right clocks. Maybe its 290 and not 290*x*.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Step 1 - Add this Chrome
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/page-monitor/pemhgklkefakciniebenbfclihhmmfcd
> 
> Step 2 - Go to a page you want to Monitor.
> 
> Step 3 - Click the Page Monitor icon, and then click Monitor this page
> 
> 
> 
> Step 4 - Right click the Page Monitor icon, and update the settings, have it check every minute.
> 
> 
> 
> This plugin will check several pages for you, without you having to refresh the pages manually.


Nice. Thanks for the quick tutorial.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Maybe I stand corrected. Amazon does appear to be getting the site ready to list the R9 290X.


How can you tell?


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Nice. Thanks for the quick tutorial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you tell?


Type in r9 in the search on Amazon and see what comes up in the auto finish lol.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Maybe I stand corrected. Amazon does appear to be getting the site ready to list the R9 290X.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Maybe I stand corrected. Amazon does appear to be getting the site ready to list the R9 290X.


Their search filters are up. Hmm... Are you in for one?


----------



## yawa

I'm torn. If it's between $499-$599 I'm going to make this my first high end gfx purchase. If it's higher, I'll passe and save the money for the first high end Steamroller chip and FM2+ mobo if need be.

Still crazy the hype this thing is building.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Type in r9 in the search on Amazon and see what comes up in the auto finish lol.


I just assumed that was my different 290x searches. Guess not. Nice find.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Their search filters are up. Hmm... Are you in for one?


I'm sure you're down for four 290x


----------



## MooseHead

they're listed on newegg. TEHEHEHEHEH


----------



## Dart06

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Their search filters are up. Hmm... Are you in for one?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you're down for four 290x
Click to expand...

I guess it's to be expected huh? I'll have to sell my flock of gold cards too. Though a part of me is of the mindset that if the bf4 beta runs as well as its currently running with trip 1080s and trifire at meager clocks, one might not need to jump with the incoming mantle adoption.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooseHead*
> 
> they're listed on newegg. TEHEHEHEHEH


Oh man they are lol


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooseHead*
> 
> they're listed on newegg. TEHEHEHEHEH


This:


----------



## xnorex

OH **** IT SAYS COMING SOON ON NEWEGG!


----------



## Dart06

I wonder how long until it's up. Now my auto refresh doesn't sound too bad huh? I'm so ready.


----------



## NJsFinest24

I need them to show up on Amazon now!! I have my cc waiting lol.


----------



## szeged

now do i want a sapphire or a msi card...


----------



## tsm106

LOL. You left out the XFX card. If you ever want to buy an XFX card for the warranty, buy the early release cards since they are all reference. Then you get the lifetime dealio.


----------



## Dart06

Does anyone have brand preference on MSI or Sapphire? I might spring for MSI.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757


It's not coming up when I search on Newegg for 290X. What did you search for?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> now do i want a sapphire or a msi card...


Please just keep you Titan.

Thanks


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's not coming up when I search on Newegg for 290X. What did you search for?


Radeon R9 290x


----------



## MooseHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> I need them to show up on Amazon now!! I have my cc waiting lol.


x2


----------



## Dart06

I'm betting it goes up at midnight central time. 23 minutes. I'm ready.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Radeon R9 290x


Weird. Still nothing. Your link works though.

Maybe it's because I'm West Coast.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Please just keep you Titan.
> 
> Thanks


im going to keep my titans, and im keeping my 780s aswell, and im gonna grab some 290x's also

problem?


----------



## NJsFinest24

The question is, do I wait for reviews n benchmarks before purchasing or jump on it immediately?? What if it doesn't match all the hype its getting?? If not, then do I go for 2 780s?? Ughh decisions decisions lol.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Radeon R9 290x
> 
> 
> 
> Weird. Still nothing. Your link works though.
> 
> Maybe it's because I'm West Coast.
Click to expand...

Search shows up for me.


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im going to keep my titans, and im keeping my 780s aswell, and im gonna grab some 290x's also
> 
> problem?


Christ, kids are starving in Africa you know.


----------



## rationalthinking

Really didn't believe these cards would list tonight....

Awesome can't wait to these things out!!!


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> The question is, do I wait for reviews n benchmarks before purchasing or jump on it immediately?? What if it doesn't match all the hype its getting?? If not, then do I go for 2 780s?/? Ughh decisions decisions lol.


You can always cancel your order later/return the item if reviews don't hold up. That's why I see no reason not to spring for it.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im going to keep my titans, and im keeping my 780s aswell, and im gonna grab some 290x's also
> 
> problem?


wow thats a nice high end GPU collection you are going to have. will you be watercooling the R9 290X ? when you get the card you can start off a benchmark faceoff thread between the 3 cards









http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=R9+290X&N=-1&isNodeId=1

k. so MSI, Sapphire and XFX are listed. so does that mean pre-orders today. its ridiculous if they open pre-orders without the embargo lifting up.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You can always cancel your order later/return the item if reviews don't hold up. That's why I see no reason not to spring for it.


THIS!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im going to keep my titans, and im keeping my 780s aswell, and im gonna grab some 290x's also
> 
> problem?


Oh we can count on you for some benchmarks then?


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You can always cancel your order later/return the item if reviews don't hold up. That's why I see no reason not to spring for it.


Really?? I wasn't sure if I would be able to do that esp if we have to put a deposit down. So say we get the card, reviews n benchmarks dont hold up, we can return it?? Like a 30 day money back kind of thing?? If so, I am getting two.


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You can always cancel your order later/return the item if reviews don't hold up. That's why I see no reason not to spring for it.


Return for refund within: non-refundable, good luck with your return


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Really?? I wasn't sure if I would be able to do that esp if we have to put a deposit down. So say we get the card, reviews n benchmarks dont hold up, we can return it?? Like a 30 day money back kind of thing?? If so, I am getting two.


If reviews don't hold up, you can return it like any other item you buy. I'm 99% sure you can even get your deposit back. It's like preordering games you know? It helps instill that you intend to buy it but can cancel anytime.

That's why if benchmarks aren't where I want them I can just return/cancel it. I'm also sure like many other cards that benchmarks are going to get leaked before the cards ship anyway.


----------



## Slaughterem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> now do i want a sapphire or a msi card...


What from your experience do you suggest?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> wow thats a nice high end GPU collection you are going to have. will you be watercooling the R9 290X ? when you get the card you can start off a benchmark faceoff thread between the 3 cards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=R9+290X&N=-1&isNodeId=1
> 
> k. so MSI, Sapphire and XFX are listed. so does that mean pre-orders today. its ridiculous if they open pre-orders without the embargo lifting up.


will definitely do a head off of the titans 780s and 290x for ya







and i absolutely plan to waterblock them as soon as i can.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Oh we can count on you for some benchmarks then?


yep


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Return for refund within: non-refundable, good luck with your return


Where does it say that?


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Return for refund within: non-refundable, good luck with your return


Yea I just saw that at the bottom of the page on newegg. Damn lol.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You can always cancel your order later/return the item if reviews don't hold up. That's why I see no reason not to spring for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Return for refund within: non-refundable, good luck with your return
Click to expand...

Newegg dont play that game. And my guess is Amazon will have some return stipulations as well on this hot ticket item like thhey have done previously.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Yea I just saw that at the bottom of the page on newegg. Damn lol.


Yep nevermind I saw it. It could just be placeholder.


----------



## xnorex

Lol, imagine all of this hype, and then there are only like 100-200 people up waiting to buy. -_-


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> *Newegg dont play that game.* And my guess is Amazon will have some return stipulations as well on this hot ticket item like thhey have done previously.


Are you talking that they will let you return it or they won't?

I never have had problems with that with Newegg.


----------



## rationalthinking

We Pre-Order tonight for a release on October 15th?


----------



## szeged

so sapphire or msi, not doing xfx because their customer service rma team will look for any reason to deny the rma.


----------



## Dart06

Ten minutes. Let's hope.


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Newegg dont play that game. And my guess is Amazon will have some return stipulations as well on this hot ticket item like thhey have done previously.


R*eturn Policies
This item is covered by Newegg.com's VGA Replacement Only Return Policy.
Return for refund within: non-refundable
Return for replacement within: 30 days.*

They are applying this policy to this card. Newegg always had this policy, they just don't apply it to every vga ....


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Does anyone have brand preference on MSI or Sapphire? I might spring for MSI.


Sapphire by far.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> *Newegg dont play that game.* And my guess is Amazon will have some return stipulations as well on this hot ticket item like thhey have done previously.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking that they will let you return it or they won't?
> 
> I never have had problems with that with Newegg.
Click to expand...

They will allow it, just don't be surprised about restocking fees.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> R*eturn Policies
> This item is covered by Newegg.com's VGA Replacement Only Return Policy.
> Return for refund within: non-refundable
> Return for replacement within: 30 days.*
> 
> They are applying this policy to this card. Newegg always had this policy, they just don't apply it to every vga ....


There it is.


----------



## raptor15sc

That's some bad Photoshopping right there.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Does anyone have brand preference on MSI or Sapphire? I might spring for MSI.
> 
> 
> 
> Sapphire by far.
Click to expand...

Reference card = reference card. At this stage, you're picking cards based on rma quality and warranty length. All three are pretty solid rma wise.


----------



## Dart06

Do we think it's going to have the actual price when we preorder it? I don't think they will charge until the item ships but I don't think they can charge whatever they want without the purchaser agreeing to the actual amount before it's shipped.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Do we think it's going to have the actual price when we preorder it? I don't think they will charge until the item ships but I don't think they can charge whatever they want without the purchaser agreeing to the actual amount before it's shipped.


I don't think they can charge us without us agreeing to it, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Don't get paid til Friday... I can't do this even if I wanted to... Maybe it's a good thing, this hype train really has my juices flowin. I need to calm down and get a bit more level headed before I trust myself with money. lmao


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Do we think it's going to have the actual price when we preorder it? I don't think they will charge until the item ships but I don't think they can charge whatever they want without the purchaser agreeing to the actual amount before it's shipped.


The price for the bundle is about $725 on Newegg (BF4 is $59 and Premium for BF4 is $49, so that makes the card about $615). They aren't showing the price right now, but if you arrange all their cards by highest price, it looks like this:


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> The price for the bundle is about $725 on Newegg. They aren't showing the price right now, but if you arrange all their cards by highest price, it looks like this:


Smart move!


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> The price for the bundle is about $725 on Newegg. They aren't showing the price right now, but if you arrange all their cards by highest price, it looks like this:


Oh. Well... If it is that price, I might not spring after all.


----------



## PureBlackFire

ASUS DC2T up: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121806


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Oh. Well... If it is that price, I might not spring after all.


Yea if that's the price, I don't think I'll be going for one either.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> now do i want a sapphire or a msi card...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> so sapphire or msi, not doing xfx because their customer service rma team will look for any reason to deny the rma.
Click to expand...

Sapphire has always been problem free for me. I have used MSI rma and it was pretty painless and quick. I would go Sapphire though


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> The price for the bundle is about $725 on Newegg (BF4 is $59 and Premium for BF4 is $49, so that makes the card about $615). They aren't showing the price right now, but if you arrange all their cards by highest price, it looks like this:


too rich for my blood!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Reference card = reference card. At this stage, you're picking cards based on rma quality and warranty length. All three are pretty solid rma wise.


im currently fighting msi to give me a working 7950 they randomly died on stock clocks stock voltages. Sent it in to them, they sent back the same dead card except horribly scratched up now. Sent it back again, now waiting on them to send me a working one.

xfx straight up denied a warranty for a 6970 i sent them and they never even sent the card back and wouldnt reply to me after saying they are denying it.

havent dealt with sapphire yet.


----------



## Ultracarpet

yea it's lookin like 750 on newegg.ca... just did the price organize thang


----------



## rationalthinking

There is an ASUS 290X which doesnt show when searched because THE LIST TITLE IS WRONG. lol


----------



## Arm3nian

what is this ASUS X9290X-DC2T-4GD5 Video Card


----------



## NJsFinest24

Yea if that's gonna be the price, I might as well get the 780 classified.


----------



## Forceman

If the BF4 card is 700+, where does that leave the normal card? $650? Or are those normal cards they have listed? I didn't see anything about BF4 on the.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> There is an ASUS 290X which doesnt show when searched because THE LIST TITLE IS WRONG. lol


*X*9 290X instead of R9 XD


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Reference card = reference card. At this stage, you're picking cards based on rma quality and warranty length. All three are pretty solid rma wise.
> 
> 
> 
> im currently fighting msi to give me a working 7950 they randomly died on stock clocks stock voltages. Sent it in to them, they sent back the same dead card except horribly scratched up now. Sent it back again, now waiting on them to send me a working one.
> 
> xfx straight up denied a warranty for a 6970 i sent them and they never even sent the card back and wouldnt reply to me after saying they are denying it.
> 
> havent dealt with sapphire yet.
Click to expand...

Sapphire uses a 3rd party rma service, althon micro. In all cases there will be good and bad outcomes. No rma is free of this, so its much like going to the dentist. I've personally had zero problems with Althon Micro and XFX.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If the BF4 card is 700+, where does that leave the normal card? $650? Or are those normal cards they have listed? I didn't see anything about BF4 on the.


You would think the preorder BF4 edition would give the game with it for free and not upcharge...


----------



## Arm3nian

How much did MSI,XFX,Sapphire pay Newegg to screw over asus


----------



## szeged

nice job asus messing up already


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You would think the preorder BF4 edition would give the game with it for free and not upcharge...


Maybe, but that's even worse. 700+ sucks.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You would think the preorder BF4 edition would give the game with it for free and not upcharge...


That's what we had hoped for but I guess not. Not really a deal if you ask me.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> How much did MSI,XFX,Sapphire pay Newegg to screw over asus


Asus and AMD gpu = fail. It's not a great start lol.


----------



## Dart06

Well worst comes to worst if the card by itself is 650 or 600$ I'll probably get a second one on top of the BF4 edition.


----------



## rationalthinking

The 290X's price point looks awesome compared to the Lightning's list price.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Dude it's not confirmed. Their source is a pre-order site...


Thank you... at least one person with a head on their shoulders. +1 for you sir.

What almost everyone overlooks is that European Union member countries have VAT, a tax on most purchases of any kind and it's usually 20-25%... Take away VAT and the price premiums for overseas shipping... It's much more likely that the bundle will run about $650, and stand-alone cards will probably run about $550-$600. Either way, people should stop hitting the panic button because the darn things aren't available yet... there is no set price and ignore pre-orders... look how often pre-orders are inflated to stick it to the schmucks that can't wait an extra week or two.

AMD knows they can only push the price so high, unless the real-world benchmarks show that it OCs better than the Titan and largely outperforms the Titan... and even at that they wouldn't even be able to push it past the price of the 780 and realistically expect to do well on sales. They need to move volume in order to gain market share... the best way to do that is to reduce the profit margin to a feasible point where customers will gladly pay for the product.

Everyone just pack one up, or twist one up if that's your style, burn down, chill, listen to some Bob, and wait a few more bloody days. We've all waited about a year for the day these cards launch to see what they can do... they're launching about a week earlier than had been anticipated and everyone has their panties in knots like the world will end before that... Patience, fellow nerds... patience.


----------



## anticommon

Considering 7990 with 8 free games is $580 on the egg, I don't know what AMD is thinking pricing this between $725-750.


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> nice job asus messing up already


...I'm sure they'll get over it...at rog.asus.com, they refer to the R9 290X reference, then give a big hint about their 'non-reference' following shortly..which is good news as it means AMD did not restrict OEMs...MSI R9 290X Lightning anyone ?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Considering 7990 with 8 free games is $580 on the egg, I don't know what AMD is thinking pricing this between $725-750.


i can tell you what theyre thinking

$$$


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Considering 7990 with 8 free games is $580 on the egg, I don't know what AMD is thinking pricing this between $725-750.


This... I asked advice about this a couple weeks ago, whether I should just buy a 7990 or spring for a 290x... It's looking like 7990 is a very decent option.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...I'm sure they'll get over it...at rog.asus.com, they refer to the R9 290X reference, then give a big hint about their 'non-reference' following shortly..which is good news as it means AMD did not restrict OEMs...MSI R9 290X Lightning anyone ?


LOL 290X lightnings after the whole 780 lightning BS... no thank you.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...I'm sure they'll get over it...at rog.asus.com, they refer to the R9 290X reference, then give a big hint about their 'non-reference' following shortly..which is good news as it means AMD did not restrict OEMs...*MSI R9 290X Lightning anyone ?*


No kidding. That might be the Lightning I actually end up buying tbh...


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Considering 7990 with 8 free games is $580 on the egg, I don't know what AMD is thinking pricing this between $725-750.


It's more like $720 to $730 if you see the HIS 7990 in the pic I posted. Which puts the card about at $615 without all the BF4 junk.


----------



## szeged

yeah i wont be counting on msi for lightning cards anymore lol, too bad evga doesnt do amd cards, classified r9 290x i would be all over.


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> The 290X's price point looks awesome compared to the Lightning's list price.


That's what I don't get ,people are whining about 700$ ish for a card apparently as fast or faster than a 780 with battlefield 4(unconfirmed). Meanwhile they go buy a 780 ligthing for almost 800$ xD. Others are still daydreaming this card will be around 400$ or 500$ ish range xD


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I still guess that AMD is thinking $649 for the 290X, right in line with the 780. Wish it was going to be $499 though...


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> This... I asked advice about this a couple weeks ago, whether I should just buy a 7990 or spring for a 290x... It's looking like 7990 is a very decent option.


I'm always advocating for single-card solutions, but honestly if you are looking to play some of the newer games at 1080-1440p then 7990 will probably work just as well if not better for you than a 290x. On top of that though, two 280x's might do a better job if you've got the room for xfire, and price would be about the same.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's more like $720 to $730 if you see the HIS 7990 in the pic I posted. Which puts the card about at $615 without all the BF4 junk.


I can't believe the BF4 card is going to be $100 more than the regular one. Does it even include Premium?


----------



## bencher

Where are you guys seeing prices?


----------



## PhutileEfforts

7990 is still a bad deal imo, i play at 1440p 120hz, and i need dx9 games to support dual gpu at that kinda rez/refresh rate. making nvidia my only option still due to frame pacing issues with amd and directx 9.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I can't believe the BF4 card is going to be $100 more than the regular one. Does it even include Premium?


My guess is no, but there is a possibility.

Honestly, I'd rather pick up BF4 seperately and get a good deal. Usually within a week before release of most major titles for pretty good prices. BF4 for PC is $48 at gamefly right now, so...

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/103500/gamefly---battlefield-4-pre-order-pc-digital-download


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I can't believe the BF4 card is going to be $100 more than the regular one. Does it even include Premium?


Yes it does.


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> The ironic part is even if that is $750+ US, these 8000 premium bundles will likely still sell out. It's just the times we live in.


So your saying like that is very bad price? the game alone is like 100$ and its preorder, im sure the prices will go down a bit after the very early period. After all Titan is 1000$ +


----------



## raptor15sc

Yes is does include Premium.


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I'm always advocating for single-card solutions, but honestly if you are looking to play some of the newer games at 1080-1440p then 7990 will probably work just as well if not better for you than a 290x. On top of that though, two 280x's might do a better job if you've got the room for xfire, and price would be about the same.


Problem with 7990 is they are nasty hot, temps get off the roof in that reference cooler. And for some reason most of them have a nasty coil whine







those are some things to take into consideration.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Problem with 7990 is they are nasty hot, temps get off the roof in that reference cooler. And for some reason most of them have a nasty coil whine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are some things to take into consideration.


Plus you can't brag because the moment you buy it it's outdated.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhutileEfforts*
> 
> 7990 is still a bad deal imo, i play at 1440p 120hz, and i need dx9 games to support dual gpu at that kinda rez/refresh rate. making nvidia my only option still due to frame pacing issues with amd and directx 9.


Good job at making stuff up


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Problem with 7990 is they are nasty hot, temps get off the roof in that reference cooler. And for some reason most of them have a nasty coil whine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are some things to take into consideration.


I actually really considered getting the 7990 until I heard about the coil whine and DX9 performance and such. I just decided to get a fast single GPU that wasn't the Titan and then settled on the 290x due to hype, Mantle, and Battlefield 4.


----------



## tsm106

Did no one read the OP??


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Yes it does.


No it doesn't. Webhallen is the only place listing premium with the bundle, they're using an unofficial product pic where they've added the premium with their logo on top of it.

None of the other listings have any signs of including it and AMD has not mentioned it either. And assuming you trust wccf they say that AMD is bundling the limited edition BF4 only.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Did no one read the OP??


This is OCN, 90% of members don't read posts.


----------



## AMC

GUY's the price is $729.99.

I looked around in the page source. There are hidden fields.

Code:



Code:


[*]

Edit: I did this for the Sapphire card.


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Problem with 7990 is they are nasty hot, temps get off the roof in that reference cooler. And for some reason most of them have a nasty coil whine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are some things to take into consideration.


...not to go off topic re R9 290X, I run two 7990s with absolutely zero coil whine and EK blocks...but there is still room for another mobo (RIVE BE) with a few 290Xs next to it...


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Plus you can't brag because the moment you buy it it's outdated.


It's still an awesome card, but if it was me I would slap a swiftech komodo on that bad boy and call it a day. But considering the card is 600$ + 200$ the block. and if you don't have a rig watercooled already....... we are talking over 1k on a vga solution and that's the tricky part for some people.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> No it doesn't. Webhallen is the only place listing premium with the bundle, they're using an unofficial product pic where they've added the premium with their logo on top of it.
> 
> None of the other listings have any signs of including it and AMD has not mentioned it either. And assuming you trust wccf they say that AMD is bundling the limited edition BF4 only.


Yeah I saw that. I messed up. Maybe they will end up including it. You never know.


----------



## PhutileEfforts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...not to go off topic re R9 290X, I run two 7990s with absolutely zero coil whine and EK blocks...but there is still room for another mobo (RIVE BE) with a few 290Xs next to it...


i bet you don't play directx 9 games at 120hz 1440p


----------



## anticommon

I feel like I want to just wait for an aftermarket version of the card. I'm going to hate myself for jumping on this if the cooler kills off any sign of OC potential.


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...not to go off topic re R9 290X, I run two 7990s with absolutely zero coil whine and EK blocks...but there is still room for another mobo (RIVE BE) with a few 290Xs next to it...


That's a very smart solution, that's the only way a 7990 is happy (underwater)







coil whine seems luck of the draw, sadly I am cursed with it since the radeon 6990 lol


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I feel like I want to just wait for an aftermarket version of the card. I'm going to hate myself for jumping on this if the cooler kills off any sign of OC potential.


EK said they are going to try to release waterblocks for it the day of launch. count me in.


----------



## AMC

Post got overrun with new ones. Price is $729.99 USD


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> EK said they are going to try to release waterblocks for it the day of launch. count me in.


But the kicker is $730 for the card + another ~$150 for the block and you have a $880 GPU. My budget is really aching for a sub-$700 solution.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> Post got overrun with new ones. Price is $729.99 USD


If that holds true, I think I'm out.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> But the kicker is $730 for the card + another ~$150 for the block and you have a $880 GPU. My budget is really aching for a sub-$700 solution.


i plan on selling the bf4 bundle anyways because i see myself playing that game for rougly 0 seconds before getting bored.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> <..li class="price-current " id="singleFinalPrice" itemprop="price" content="749.99"..>


This is on newegg.ca


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i plan on selling the bf4 bundle anyways because i see myself playing that game for rougly 0 seconds before getting bored.


Well... if you need to get rid of the copy of BF4 and I don't pick one of these bundles up, you could always PM me


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> If that holds true, I think I'm out.


I post the source code section previously.

Code:



Code:


[*]

The card is 729.99$


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> I post the source code section previously.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*]
> 
> The card is 729.99$


Yea I saw your post. Damn well that stinks.


----------



## anticommon

Anyways boys and girls. I need to shower and get some shut-eye. I guess we'll see what's really going on tomorrow morning in terms of pricing/bundles.


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Yea I saw your post. Damn well that stinks.


Which puts the card in line with 649.99$ Non-BF4 Edition.

Give it 1 month, it will get to $599.99


----------



## PhutileEfforts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Anyways boys and girls. I need to shower and get some shut-eye. I guess we'll see what's really going on tomorrow morning in terms of pricing/bundles.


they will be sold out by the time you wake up. even if its 800 price tag, newegg is makin some money tonight.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> If that holds true, I think I'm out.


I still think that it's a placeholder.


----------



## raptor15sc

I haven't gotten a game bundle in a long time. Do they still just include CD Keys (Product Keys) inside the box?

I was planning on getting two cards and selling the BF4 bundle part for the second card on eBay. Just want to check.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> I haven't gotten a game bundle in a long time. Do they still just include CD Keys (Product Keys) inside the box?
> 
> I was planning on getting two cards and selling the BF4 bundle part for the second card on eBay. Just want to check.


It's very much likely just the Origin code.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhutileEfforts*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...not to go off topic re R9 290X, I run two 7990s with absolutely zero coil whine and EK blocks...but there is still room for another mobo (RIVE BE) with a few 290Xs next to it...
> 
> 
> 
> i bet you don't play directx 9 games at 120hz 1440p
Click to expand...

Maybe he doesn't, but I play Planetside 2 (DX9) at 3524x1920 (1080 portrait eyefinity) with a 7990 and a 7970 and... no problems. He won't have any problems either.

Not that it matters, your post was off his topic which itself was off topic, and yours was a trolling effort on top of it. Kindly go away and let those of us waiting for the shiny thing drool in peace.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> EK said they are going to try to release waterblocks for it the day of launch. count me in.
> 
> 
> 
> But the kicker is $730 for the card + another ~$150 for the block and you have a $880 GPU. My budget is really aching for a sub-$700 solution.
Click to expand...

So... Wait a few more weeks and get a non-preorder one?


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhutileEfforts*
> 
> they will be sold out by the time you wake up. even if its 800 price tag, newegg is makin some money tonight.


I'm really not too worried about it. At $730+ it falls out of my budget plain and simple. (honestly wasn't even looking to really spend more than $650 for the preorder bundle)

I can wait.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I'm really not too worried about it. At $730+ it falls out of my budget plain and simple. (honestly wasn't even looking to really spend more than $650 for the preorder bundle)
> 
> I can wait.


I feel the same but the hype. :/

I don't really have a budget but I know when I don't want to pay a certain price.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Yeah, the regular 290X will not be $729, just the preordered BF4 version. You should be able to get a regular one around Oct 15th for $649...


----------



## PhutileEfforts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I'm really not too worried about it. At $730+ it falls out of my budget plain and simple. (honestly wasn't even looking to really spend more than $650 for the preorder bundle)
> 
> I can wait.


this will have trueaudio on it right? or does that have to be added by the game devlopers like physx with nvidia?

>.> please be the former... those 2 physx games are really lonely.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Yeah, the regular 290X will not be $729, just the preordered BF4 version. You should be able to get a regular one around Oct 15th for $649...


I just don't get how people (me included) would think pre ordering the BF4 edition is smart at all. Like, it should be free with the preorder (making the pre order more special) instead of charging just the increased (if not more than that) price.


----------



## Roaches

Mind as well wait for what the non bundle and R9-290 offers....$729.99 is too steep, you can get a GTX 780 with Batman Arkham Origins right now for less...or a 7990 alone...


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I just don't get how people (me included) would think pre ordering the BF4 edition is smart at all. Like, it should be free with the preorder (making the pre order more special) instead of charging just the increased (if not more than that) price.


I feel the same way.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> Which puts the card in line with 649.99$ Non-BF4 Edition.
> 
> Give it 1 month, it will get to $599.99


So you are paying $80 for non-premium BF4? Great deal, that is.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Keep in mind guys this isn't the market place. Asking people to pm you for selling their keys should be kept to the market place.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> So you are paying $80 for non-premium BF4? Great deal, that is.


Which is why I think the price isn't set yet. It's still placeholder.


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> I'm sure the 780s will be price accordingly too by then considering all the talk that's been going around.
> 
> Just pointing that out since I've seen a decent amount of comments saying they would rather just buy a 780 for the price. Seems like this might not be AMDs time to shine after all.
> Ditto. I would gladly take a copy of somebody's hands.


I applaud AMD for the recent efforts and this card has soo much potential.

They failed with the price. Heck who knows, maybe newegg inflated it this much because they knew it was popular.

The card should start with a retail of $599.99 and BF4 package at $649.99. They need that edge at the beginning. Mantle has potential but they need a track record to ask for a high price.

Just my 2 centsv


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Certainly doesn't seem like a great deal economically. Especially considering we don't have any solid info on how its going to perform. Now if the NDA was lifted and all the reviews had the 290X solidly faster than the Titan, this price would be fine. As it is, I think you'd be touched in the head to spend $730 for a card you don't know anything about with a game you will probably be able to get two weeks later for less...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Certainly doesn't seem like a great deal economically. Especially considering we don't have any solid info on how its going to perform. Now if the NDA was lifted and all the reviews had the 290X solidly faster than the Titan, this price would be fine. As it is, I think you'd be touched in the head to spend $730 for a card you don't know anything about with a game you will probably be able to get two weeks later for less...


Agreed, the price might be terrible, but it also might be great. There aren't any proper reviews of the features or benchmarks. Mostly speculation.


----------



## youra6

Where do you guys see the price?

*edit:* Nevermind, just saw AMC's post.


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Where do you guys see the price?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1430935/vc-amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-for-preorder/210_30#post_20912798


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Certainly doesn't seem like a great deal economically. Especially considering we don't have any solid info on how its going to perform. Now if the NDA was lifted and all the reviews had the 290X solidly faster than the Titan, this price would be fine. As it is, I think you'd be touched in the head to spend $730 for a card you don't know anything about with a game you will probably be able to get two weeks later for less...


So this price is fine only if it performs better than a $1000 card?

Makes sense.


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1430935/vc-amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-for-preorder/210_30#post_20912798


You were supposed to wait for my edit!


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Where do you guys see the price?


By viewing the page source at Newegg's GPU page... I saw the price as well to confirm it.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Where do you guys see the price?
> 
> *edit:* Nevermind, just saw AMC's post.


Source code says 729. If you sort graphic cards on newegg by price they are between 729 - 769.


----------



## youra6

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric* 


> As it is, I think you'd be touched in the head to spend $730 for a card you don't know anything about with a game you will probably be able to get two weeks later for less...


That's only if you are lucky to find one in stock after two weeks. These things will sell very quickly.


----------



## PhutileEfforts

im just gonna wait til late november, hopefully price will be down and some aftermarket dual fan sapphires will be out by then, and hopefully amd rewards updated with rome 2 xD


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> Which puts the card in line with 649.99$ Non-BF4 Edition.
> 
> Give it 1 month, it will get to $599.99


Fortunately for me, I'll have to wait until November when I get 3 paychecks... Black Friday sales... hmm... it might be as low as $500-$550 for Black Friday


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Where do you guys see the price?
> 
> *edit:* Nevermind, just saw AMC's post.


AMC's post is cool and all, but mine was first...


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> Fortunately for me, I'll have to wait until November when I get 3 paychecks... Black Friday sales... hmm... it might be as low as $500-$550 for Black Friday


For under $600, I will get 2. Its been a while since I bought new cards. My GTX480's need to go.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> AMC's post is cool and all, but mine was first...


hahhaa, In a sense. It was speculation, I got the actual price


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> AMC's post is cool and all, but mine was first...


I mean you were a penny off... that is a pretty huge deal breaker for some.


----------



## Havolice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> so sapphire or msi, not doing xfx because their customer service rma team will look for any reason to deny the rma.


im gonna be a bit sarcastic now.

but if they showed 729 at the amd gpu14 showcase lol we whould prolly have said SAY WHATTTT your audio isnt getting trough clearly . * damned 1-2 hours audio talking pun*

but ya 280x 299 to 290x straight to 729 :O ooook i hope the normal 290 has good results vs my current 780
otherwise i see myself just buying another 780


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhutileEfforts*
> 
> im just gonna wait til late november, hopefully price will be down and some aftermarket dual fan sapphires will be out by then, and hopefully amd rewards updated with rome 2 xD


If you wait until November, might as well wait until December and see how Mantle pans out.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If you wait until November, might as well wait until December and see how Mantle pans out.


Then you might as well wait until the Nvidia 800 series.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If you wait until November, might as well wait until December and see how Mantle pans out.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you might as well wait until the Nvidia 800 series.
Click to expand...

MAXWELL


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> GUY's the price is $729.99.
> 
> I looked around in the page source. There are hidden fields.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [*]
> 
> Edit: I did this for the Sapphire card.


I didn't know we could look at the source code and find the price, good to know for next time.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I just don't get how people (me included) would think pre ordering the BF4 edition is smart at all. Like, it should be free with the preorder (making the pre order more special) instead of charging just the increased (if not more than that) price.


What I don't get is how people would be willing to buy the card, without knowing the performance either.

If that price of $729 turns out to be true, I would like to remind you all what I've been saying here for a LONG time.









This kinda sums it up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> You so silly. AMD never overprices anything, nor do they ever charge a premium for their products, they love giving their customers the lowest possible prices.
> 
> The 290X will be $499, 290 $399. 280X $299, that would be a very logical lineup.
> 
> Since the 7970 is currently going for $299 in a lot of places, why would its replacement cost twice as much at $599+?
> 
> /sarcasm
> 
> Dear AMD fans, I'm sure you will get offended by what I wrote, it was just a joke.


For those unable to read between the lines. AMD will charge you as much as they can, when ever they can, and if they are charging less is because they HAVE to, due to the performance of their products.

This card at this price will do nothing to bring those highend GPU's back to the sub $500 price point.


----------



## jojoenglish85

i aint paying 729, nope not happening buddy! Sticking with NV.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

AMD just put themselves in a tough situation by being so late with this card. Had this been May or June then I could totally see a $650 290X that beats a 780 putting a hurting on Nvidia but as its now going to be nearly November by the time the 290X hits, the impact is greatly reduced and their leverage for charging a higher price is greatly diminished I think...


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I didn't know we could look at the source code and find the price, good to know for next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't get is how people would be willing to buy the card, without knowing the performance either.
> 
> If that price of $729 turns out to be true, I would like to remind you all what I've been saying here for a LONG time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kinda sums it up.
> For those unable to read between the lines. AMD will charge you as much as they can, when ever they can, and if they are charging less is because they HAVE to, due to the performance of their products.


hope you put your flame suit on, amd can do no wrong, dont you know that?


----------



## Havolice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> hope you put your flame suit on, amd can do no wrong, dont you know that?


amd fx 9590 800 euro :O and now r9 290x 729 zomg :< i see a pathern

wel to be honest if i didnt buy a 780 and a creative zxr i whould have bought it


----------



## Arizonian

Prepare - Newegg has them up but not for order just yet.

*R9 290X - ASUS*

*R9 290X - MSI*

*R9 290X - XFX*

*R9 290X - Sapphire*


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I didn't know we could look at the source code and find the price, good to know for next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't get is how people would be willing to buy the card, without knowing the performance either.
> 
> If that price of $729 turns out to be true, I would like to remind you all what I've been saying here for a LONG time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kinda sums it up.
> For those unable to read between the lines. AMD will charge you as much as they can, when ever they can, and if they are charging less is because they HAVE to, due to the performance of their products.


Genius... I am sure everyone knows this.

Btw you happen to notice this is the bf4 edition? Prices are possibly inflated by $50.

Also benches posted earlier today shows 290x beating titan across the boards. Except for unigine. While being 1ghz core clock.

If those benches are true the price is awesome.


----------



## fleetfeather

wow. AMD is just following suit with NV's BS pricing scheme...

Also good to see some members of the OCN community measuring up the R2D2 price as fine when compared to the Titan... cos like, the Titan is the flipping YARDSTICK for price/perf hey...

The reason cards like 780 and Titan got away with higher prices is because there was no competition. Now the competition comes in to simply SET a new price bracket for high-performance cards.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I really see it as a missed opportunity for them to counter the Titan/780. If they were to ditch the bean counters and, say, offer the 290X for $499 I bet they couldn't make them fast enough to meet demand. Of course, economically it may be impossible to price it like that but they would certainly pick up some lost market share if they did. I suspect even 2010rig would have to grudgingly say something positive about them!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I really see it as a missed opportunity for them to counter the Titan/780. If they were to ditch the bean counters and, say, offer the 290X for $499 I bet they couldn't make them fast enough to meet demand. Of course, economically it may be impossible to price it like that but they would certainly pick up some lost market share if they did. I suspect even 2010rig would have to grudgingly say something positive about them!


for 499 it would be hard to say something bad about its price/perf


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> hope you put your flame suit on, amd can do no wrong, dont you know that?


I'm well aware, and I'm used to it.









I was really hoping this card would force NVIDIA to drop the price of the 780 to $499, where it should be.


----------



## Dart06

I still think it would be great if it does beat the Titan pretty much across the board and the price is a placeholder that we find out tomorrow is actually 550-600$. Heads would roll.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I'm well aware, and I'm used to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was really hoping this card would force NVIDIA to drop the price of the 780 to $499, where it should be.


you need to look at places besides newegg and amazon







i got a 780 classified hydro copper for $600 usd today


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> wow. AMD is just following suit with NV's BS pricing scheme...
> 
> Also good to see some members of the OCN community measuring up the R2D2 price as fine when compared to the Titan... cos like, the Titan is the flipping YARDSTICK for price/perf hey...
> 
> The reason cards like 780 and Titan got away with higher prices is because there was no competition. Now the competition comes in to simply SET a new price bracket for high-performance cards.


No... People voted with their wallets that's why titan is priced so high.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Then you might as well wait until the Nvidia 800 series.


If you are going to wait for the 800, you may as well wait for Pirate Islands. Aagh, when does it end?


----------



## Dart06

I'm seriously surprised the preorders aren't actually up yet.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I'm seriously surprised the preorders aren't actually up yet.


not 12:00am pacific time yet.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> No... People voted with their wallets that's why titan is priced so high.


People paid for Titans cos it was the best performance you could get, regardless of the price. The price stuck because no competition. These <$600 prices will now continue to stick because the competition wants "some of that" too.


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If you are going to wait for the 800, you may as well wait for Pirate Islands. Aagh, when does it end?


...when does it end ?









...back in my teens, as I splurge on 8 MB (that's MB not GB), the sales person goes on about that 'Future Proof' Vesa 2.0 I just bought...

...it never ends...


----------



## Hollowcrown

Of the three brands for the 290x which will be best?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hollowcrown*
> 
> Of the three brands for the 290x which will be best?


all three will be the same exact card but the box comes with a different brand name.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> People paid for Titans cos it was the best performance you could get, regardless of the price. The price stuck because no competition. These <$600 prices will now continue to stick because the competition wants "some of that" too.


Hence they voted with their wallet. I have money to buy a $1000 graphics card but I don't think any graphics card is work $1000.

So that's me voting with my wallet.

The most I will spend on a graphics card is $450.

The prices won't stick if they don't sell.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> you need to look at places besides newegg and amazon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got a 780 classified hydro copper for $600 usd today


That's pretty sweet.

PM me when you're ready to sell 1 of your 9 Titans for $599.









1 week before Maxwell releases doesn't count.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> not 12:00am pacific time yet.


You think that's when it is up?

I'll be watching it like a hawk regardless like the past 3 hours.


----------



## wermad

MSI 1 year warranty
Sapphire, 2 year warranty


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> That's pretty sweet.
> 
> PM me when you're ready to sell 1 of your 9 Titans for $599.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 week before Maxwell releases doesn't count.


will do, what about a week after maxwell releases?


----------



## psyside

ASUS X9290X-DC2T??

How is this even possible? doesn't AMD said only reference design? o


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> MSI 1 year warranty
> Sapphire, 2 year warranty


Don't forget - ASUS 3yr warranty


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> You think that's when it is up?
> 
> I'll be watching it like a hawk regardless like the past 3 hours.


Ya 11:59 to be exact. I have experience >.>


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Don't forget - ASUS 3yr warranty


Thanks, I didn't see the Asus listed on the egg.

Btw, XFX and their lifetime warranty. I just can't do XFX with all the crap that goes on with them and their warranty.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Ya 11:59 to be exact. I have experience >.>


If you are right you win the internets.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Hence they voted with their wallet. I have money to buy a $1000 graphics card but I don't think any graphics card is work $1000.
> 
> So that's me voting with my wallet.
> 
> The most I will spend on a graphics card is $450.
> 
> The prices won't stick if they don't sell.


Yes, okay, you voted with your wallet. As in, the price you're willing to pay is a factor in buying a GPU. If it costs too much, you wont buy. Simple.

The people who bought Titans did the exact opposite of you. They bought regardless of their Wallet. They bought based on performance, they bought based on the best available product.

That's the exact opposite of voting with your wallet. That's NOT voting with your wallet, it's voting with the market.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Heh, I didn't think Titan was worth $1k but I bought two anyway because I was bored with my 7970's and wanted to build a new machine that would get top 10 bench scores. Hobbies can be expensive but its all about having fun and if you can afford to do it, why not?


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I didn't know we could look at the source code and find the price, good to know for next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't get is how people would be willing to buy the card, without knowing the performance either.
> 
> If that price of $729 turns out to be true, I would like to remind you all what I've been saying here for a LONG time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kinda sums it up.
> For those unable to read between the lines. AMD will charge you as much as they can, when ever they can, and if they are charging less is because they HAVE to, due to the performance of their products.
> 
> 
> 
> Genius... I am sure everyone knows this.
> 
> Btw you happen to notice this is the bf4 edition? Prices are possibly inflated by $50.
> 
> *Also benches posted earlier today shows 290x beating titan across the boards. Except for unigine. While being 1ghz core clock.*
> 
> If those benches are true the price is awesome.
Click to expand...

across the board did you say?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*


hhmm a few notables like tomb raider, CoH2 and Avp3 but then the titan takes bioshock and metroLL @ 1920. (no, i don't think valley, even based on a game engine, ought to be considered)

point being the comparison is NOT definitive enough for either. what it ought to be compared to is the 780 where it spanks it to no end.. what is severely disappointing is if amd is charging a premium for BF4 where games where _FREE_ before.(guess they need to make back some of that money they spent) if the price settles down to ~$650 then it is defiantly making the 780 lose any wind in its sails.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> If you are right you win the internets.


Ivy bridge came out 11:59 my time, snatched one. 690s came out 11:59 also, that's all I've really stayed up for, might as well stay for this one also.


----------



## raghu78

if the normal R9 290X is USD 650 then its a bad trend as both these GPU companies are not going to return to the days of USD 500 - 550 flagship cards. a stock R9 290X at USD 650 and BF4 edition at USD 730 does nothing to push price performance forward when factory OC'd 780 cards like EVGA GTX 780 classified and Galaxy HOF 780 are selling for USD 700 how can R9 290X bring better value unless its priced at USD 550 - 600.

but I am just thinking why would AMD price the R9 280X at USD 300 (which is quite aggressive) and then price Hawaii so badly. also SKYMTL says the Rx series will bring better value

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286994-Amd-Volcanic-Islands-details&p=5209244&viewfull=1#post5209244

right now its confusing and this will continue till oct 15th.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> will do, what about a week after maxwell releases?


Perfect, that'll be the best time to get a Titan.


----------



## bencher

It spanked both of them lol.


----------



## Clockster

Man...What a way to wake up...
I am more than willing to pay $650 per card but there is no way I am forking out $1000 for a GPU again.
That said I am pretty sure these guys are just price gouging.

Will have to wait and see. I'll try get a price out of the local suppliers today


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> if the normal R9 290X is USD 650 then its a bad trend as both these GPU companies are not going to return to the days of USD 500 - 550 flagship cards. a stock R9 290X at USD 650 and BF4 edition at USD 730 does nothing to push price performance forward when factory OC'd 780 cards like EVGA GTX 780 classified and Galaxy HOF 780 are selling for USD 700 how can R9 290X bring better value unless its priced at USD 550 - 600.
> 
> but I am just thinking why would AMD price the R9 280X at USD 300 (which is quite aggressive) and then price Hawaii so badly. also SKYMTL says the Rx series will bring better value
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286994-Amd-Volcanic-Islands-details&p=5209244&viewfull=1#post5209244
> 
> right now its confusing and this will continue till oct 15th.


i guess it can be said that its better value because from the benches we have so far (if they are real) where it competes with the titan, it is cheaper. But if those benches turn out false but the price remains 650 to 700, then blah i feel sorry for those who wanted it for 599


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> if the normal R9 290X is USD 650 then its a bad trend as both these GPU companies are not going to return to the days of USD 500 - 550 flagship cards. a stock R9 290X at USD 650 and BF4 edition at USD 730 does nothing to push price performance forward when factory OC'd 780 cards like EVGA GTX 780 classified and Galaxy HOF 780 are selling for USD 700 how can R9 290X bring better value unless its priced at USD 550 - 600.
> 
> but I am just thinking why would AMD price the R9 280X at USD 300 (which is quite aggressive) and then price Hawaii so badly. also SKYMTL says the Rx series will bring better value
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286994-Amd-Volcanic-Islands-details&p=5209244&viewfull=1#post5209244
> 
> right now its confusing and this will continue till oct 15th.


If you want change then don't support these prices.

If the cards don't sell the prices will go lower.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> It spanked both of them lol.


nope. spanking infers a 10%+ difference, a few FPS isn't sorry.


----------



## szeged

or just wait a few weeks and hope nvidia steps it up and starts a price war.

evga is doing 15% off on cards if you signed up for the dual bios card give away a few months back. Gonna grab a 780 classified with it since thats already $100 off.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> nope. spanking infers a 10%+ difference, a few FPS isn't sorry.


In your opinion...

In my opinion spank is faster by >1%.


----------



## psyside

ASUS X9290X-DC2T? How come? non - reference cards? AMD said they wont allow at the launch..


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> nope. spanking infers a 10%+ difference, a few FPS isn't sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion...
> 
> In my opinion spank is faster by >1%.
Click to expand...

no, that's desperation


----------



## Hattifnatten

Guys?...
Quote:


> Observera att priset på produkten och nedan specifikationer är preliminära och kan komma att ändras (framförallt klockfrekvenserna är inte 100% bekräftade ännu)


Note that the price on the product and specifications are estimates, and may be changed (especially the clocks are uncertain).


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> hope you put your flame suit on, amd can do no wrong, dont you know that?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm well aware, and I'm used to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was really hoping this card would force NVIDIA to drop the price of the 780 to $499, where it should be.
Click to expand...

The 7970/280X is at $300 and the 7990 is at $600.

By this standard, the 780 should be at $400, the Titan at $500, the 690 at $600, and the 290x at $450.

But you know, $730 is totally unfair for a GPU that in theory stands between the $650 and $1000 ones. Especially when it is a limited-edition pre-order version that comes with a game and will of course be tagged with Never Settle Gold...

Absolutely amazing how some people will justify nVidia's prices but not this one. And they call it comparing to Titan! Ha! They're basing the price off the $650 780, obviously, and frankly that too is overpriced as you yourself noted. If they wanted price/performance, they should look at the 7970/280x for $300 that plays tag with the $400 770. Those price cuts from nvidia can't come fast enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> No... People voted with their wallets that's why titan is priced so high.
> 
> 
> 
> People paid for Titans cos it was the best performance you could get, regardless of the price. *The price stuck because no competition.* These <$600 prices will now continue to stick because the competition wants "some of that" too.
Click to expand...

I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> not 12:00am pacific time yet.
> 
> 
> 
> You think that's when it is up?
> 
> I'll be watching it like a hawk regardless like the past 3 hours.
Click to expand...

AMD's US Headquarters is in the PST time zone, so ya, pretty much.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> no, that's desperation


In your opinion again.

A win is a win.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> no, that's desperation


even if it beat it by .000001% a certain fan following would call it obliterating a titan.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

If the 290X indeed drops at $649 and beats a Titan, expect 780 prices to be $500-$550 very soon which would put AMD in yet another awkward position (similar to the 7990). This could be avoided with a reasonable launch price...


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> or just wait a few weeks and hope nvidia steps it up and starts a price war.
> 
> evga is doing 15% off on cards if you signed up for the dual bios card give away a few months back. Gonna grab a 780 classified with it since thats already $100 off.


that might be wishful thinking now. the price of the 290X was hoped to be ~$559 causing nvivida to drop the 780 and maybe the titan. @ $650+ that won't happen now. just like last year when they dropped the 660 and 650ti boost on the market, nvidia is coming out with a ~760 (some TI or SE brand) at a sub $250 price and adjust some mid range prices. i expect the 770 and above to hold.

thanks AMD!


----------



## jojoenglish85

If it aint $560 shipped or less i aint touching it.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


>


Why don't any benchmark comparisons show results Clock vs Clock?

It is very misleading to the enthusiast market. *937Mhz vs 1020Mhz is a huge difference on core.*


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> no, that's desperation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion again.
> 
> A win is a win.
Click to expand...

ok fine. then taking 66% of benchmarks is far from _across the board_ wins


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> Why don't any benchmark comparisons show results Clock vs Clock?
> 
> It is very misleading to the enthusiast market. *937Mhz vs 1020Mhz is a huge difference on core.*


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> even if it beat it by .000001% a certain fan following would call it obliterating a titan.


Funny thing is that "beating the Titan" is almost a marketing slogan at this point after reviewers like TTL etc. have used it so often with factory OC and custom 780s.

There are a bunch of those 780s that already beat a stock Titan. It's a silly thing to get excited on OCN. Great for mainstream marketing purposes for AMD or for MS, EVGA, gigabyte etc. But on OCN it's just silly.


----------



## Dart06

Less than ten minutes once again. Let's see if this is the hour.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*


LOL!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Funny thing is that "beating the Titan" is almost a marketing slogan at this point after reviewers like TTL etc. have used it so often with factory OC and custom 780s.
> 
> There are a bunch of those 780s that already beat a stock Titan. It's a silly thing to get excited on OCN. Great for mainstream marketing purposes for AMD or for MS, EVGA, gigabyte etc. But on OCN it's just silly.


yeah i know, i hate when reviewers overclock a card, or take a pre overclocked card thats 1100+ or 1200+(talking about 780s here) and go on and on and on about how it decimated the titan etc etc.


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> The 7970/280X is at $300 and the 7990 is at $600.
> 
> By this standard, the 780 should be at $400, the Titan at $500, the 690 at $600, and the 290x at $450.
> 
> *But you know, $730 is totally unfair for a GPU that in theory stands between the $650 and $1000 ones. Especially when it is a limited-edition pre-order version that comes with a game and will of course be tagged with Never Settle Gold...
> *
> Absolutely amazing how some people will justify nVidia's prices but not this one. And they call it comparing to Titan! Ha! They're basing the price off the $650 780, obviously, and frankly that too is overpriced as you yourself noted. If they wanted price/performance, they should look at the 7970/280x for $300 that plays tag with the $400 770. Those price cuts from nvidia can't come fast enough.
> I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.
> AMD's US Headquarters is in the PST time zone, so ya, pretty much.


Quoted for the truth. I think too many people will see $730 and be put off because it didnt land at an amazingly cheap price. But on the other hand, the card appears to be better then expected, and at $730 you get BF4 (possibly premium) and most likely will get added to a Never settle bundle. So if you strip away the extras it becomes a really reasonable price. Especially compared to the titan.


----------



## jojoenglish85

I just want a card or cards that will decimate my 3x 1440p monitors with ease for a good price...That is all.


----------



## Dart06

Still not up.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Funny thing is that "beating the Titan" is almost a marketing slogan at this point after reviewers like TTL etc. have used it so often with factory OC and custom 780s.
> 
> There are a bunch of those 780s that already beat a stock Titan. It's a silly thing to get excited on OCN. Great for mainstream marketing purposes for AMD or for MS, EVGA, gigabyte etc. But on OCN it's just silly.


It's silly for you. Speak for yourself.

Others will happily pay less for the same performance. Gtx780 did make a titan useless.


----------



## wermad

12:00 AM PST.....nothing has changed


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> If the 290X indeed drops at $649 and beats a Titan, expect 780 prices to be $500-$550 very soon which would put AMD in yet another awkward position (similar to the 7990). This could be avoided with a reasonable launch price...


Except Nvidia never dropped the price of the GTX 680, even as 7970 prices kept dropping. I doubt Nvidia will drop the price of the GTX 780 unless the 290X is under $550.


----------



## szeged

i didnt realize 780s gave the same performance as a titan? must be nice living in fantasy land.

by your logic where the 290x destroys the titan because it showed to be 2 to 3 fps ahead in some games, the titan decimates the 780 because its 5 or so fps ahead.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Ya 11:59 to be exact. I have experience >.>


Lies.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.


I have no idea what you're trying to imply here. Elaborate?


----------



## ConservingClips

5 more minutes of waiting for me then my value proposition with sleep changes.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Lies.


Hey man... its worked in the past


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i didnt realize 780s gave the same performance as a titan? must be nice living in fantasy land.
> 
> by your logic where the 290x destroys the titan because it showed to be 2 to 3 fps ahead in some games, the titan decimates the 780 because its 5 or so fps ahead.


An overclocked 780 does beat a titan a stock titan for $300 less.

Yes 290x destroys titan at lower price.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> An overclocked 780 does beat a titan a stock titan for $300 less.
> 
> Yes 290x destroys titan at lower price.


You know a titan overclocks as well? And it overclocks quite well.

780 was a good value when it came out compared to the performance it gave, but it still doesn't and never will beat a titan.


----------



## Dart06

Why can't this card be available yet...


----------



## ConservingClips

Well as much as I enjoyed the excitement of staying up late to place my order, a very small emotional let down is hitting me and I've decided sleeping is more important at this point versus ordering this card. Fickle? Yep. We'll see what's left in the morning but I hope everyone else has a good night/day!


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Hey man... its worked in the past


My hopes = DASHED


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> An overclocked 780 does beat a titan a stock titan for $300 less.
> 
> Yes 290x destroys titan at lower price.


fantasyland

where titans cant be overclocked.


----------



## TamaDrumz76

Looking forward to this card... I just _may_ pull the trigger on one.

However, for the card only, I cannot see it being more than the 7990. That card is at 699 USD, and I would think it's still going to be more powerful than the single chip 290X. BF4 bundle, I can see being $649 though... That would make a lot of sense.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's 12:10am... Everyone says nothing has changed since the Newegg _coming soons_... But I just know that as soon as fall asleep -- ALL the listings will be released and I'll have to wait for the next 8,000 cards to be made.


Next guess is 9am (either Eastern or Pacific). That seems to be a common time.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Next guess is 9am (either Eastern or Pacific). That seems to be a common time.


Or right after you fall asleep.


----------



## TamaDrumz76

I'm usually up till 6AM EST, so... if I see anything... I'll throw a post (unless someone beats me to it).


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> It's silly for you. Speak for yourself.
> 
> Others will happily pay less for the same performance. Gtx780 did make a titan useless.


In the same way as

650Ti boost is faster than a 7850 or
660Ti is faster than a 7870 or
760 is faster than a 7950 or
680 is faster than a 7970 or
770 is as fast as a 7970GHz.

Yet we all know that for us on OCN those AMD cards are faster alternatives. Why? Because they can be OC'd further than the NV cards.

But no, that can't possibly be true for the Titan. ~10%+ faster than a 780 clock for clock means nothing. Stock is all that matters.

Meanwhile pretty much all Titan and 780 users on OCN are running custom bioses and modding their afterburner for more volts.

Just like with the 600 series vs. 7000 series the true comparison is max OC vs. max OC. Like it or not but the people here couldn't care less about stock Titan benches just like they don't care about stock 7970 benches either. As I said, if you want a card that'll beat a stock Titan at stock then buy this (link). Of course once you OC it wont hold a candle to the Titan.

We do not even know the stock clocks for the 290X, let alone the OCing potential, all leaks so far have indicated that the 1050MHz setting always used in these benches comes in the form of a secondary bios on the card. Similar to the 6990 that had an OC'd bios that allowed AMD to claim it was faster than a 590 at stock while they did not have to certify the cards for those clock speeds.

So wait for reviews and especially user reports about OCing before making statements about actual performance?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> The 7970/280X is at $300 and the 7990 is at $600.
> 
> By this standard, the 780 should be at $400, the Titan at $500, the 690 at $600, and the 290x at $450.
> 
> But you know, $730 is totally unfair for a GPU that in theory stands between the $650 and $1000 ones. Especially when it is a limited-edition pre-order version that comes with a game and will of course be tagged with Never Settle Gold...
> 
> Absolutely amazing how some people will justify nVidia's prices but not this one. And they call it comparing to Titan! Ha! They're basing the price off the $650 780, obviously, and frankly that too is overpriced as you yourself noted. If they wanted price/performance, they should look at the 7970/280x for $300 that plays tag with the $400 770. Those price cuts from nvidia can't come fast enough.
> I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.
> AMD's US Headquarters is in the PST time zone, so ya, pretty much.


Do you remember when the 280 released for $650, and it was $499 within a week, what caused it to drop in price?

What kept the 480, 580, 680 at $499?

I really wish people stopped price comparisons with Titan in mind, here's why:

1. When Titan released it was ~35% - 40% faster than the 7970.

2. It has 1/3 DP, which puts it up there as an "Entry Level" compute card, an alternative to K20X.

3. Because it was a Premium Product. ( 3930K --> 3970X ) Hint: Titan is like the 3970X.

Let's look at the 780, it's about 30% faster than 7970, and therefore NVIDIA got away with pricing it at $650. It carried a premium for being so much faster than the competition.

Now, AMD is offering ( I'm assuming the same performance ) 5 months later, and it's pricing it on par with 780.

What's the point in that? Same price, same performance, there are no official benches yet, so it remains to be seen how it does @1440p.

Competition is supposed to drive prices down, not just match them at the apparently new $650 price segment for "high end" cards.

Hey, it's fine if AMD wants to do this, and match the prices and all, since the performance is there. I would like to stop hearing how AMD is the Price / Performance King over and over again around here that's all.

Look at their own lineup.

280X = $299
290X = $729

Makes sense.


----------



## Newbie2009

Oh wow we still talking about titan are we.


----------



## tpi2007

XFX R9 290X card page has just been added to Newegg. Coming soon, as the MSI and Sapphire.

Has new box art though.





http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150675


----------



## jomama22

Just so everyone is aware, the "BF4 edition" is what is posted over at newegg thanks to box art pics up on the product pages. So whether or not this falls in at $729 for the normal edition or not has yet to be seen...


----------



## Dart06

What's really funny about that XFX package is you can see where the same information is on both packages. Those photoshop skills...


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Price is 750 $


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> Price is 750 $


On newegg.ca, was listed in source code as $729.99 on plain (us) .com


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> What's really funny about that XFX package is you can see where the same information is on both packages. Those photoshop skills...


? I didn't understand what you meant to say.

The XFX box art looks like the real deal while the MSI and Sapphire are just general unbranded placeholders.


----------



## wermad

@ $729 sans bundle, I'm not interested anymore.....so much for $599







Lame....


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> @ $729 sans bundle, I'm not interested anymore.....so much for $599
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lame....


...thats with the bundle...


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> ...thats with the bundle...


Still quite high.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

750$. Yep, prices are going up for every new generation. Titan is to be blamed here most of all. 980 will cost 1k$ probably

And why would AMD price 290x below 780 if it performs similar to it? Some ppl make no sense in defending a brand.


----------



## Dart06

Funny. My laptop has windows refreshing newegg every 5-10 seconds and the Asus 290x page says "Battlefield 4 game included, limited offer" but my desktop on the same page doesn't say that.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> 750$. Yep, prices are going up for every new generation. Titan is to be blamed here most of all. 980 will cost 1k$ probably
> 
> And why would AMD price 290x below 780 if it performs similar to it? Some ppl makes no sense in defending a brand.


so you have proof of this 780 performance? and as said, its not $750, only for canadians, where titans are actually real.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Funny. My laptop has windows refreshing newegg every 5-10 seconds and the Asus 290x page says "Battlefield 4 game included, limited offer" but my desktop on the same page doesn't say that.


cache


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> 750$. Yep, prices are going up for every new generation. Titan is to be blamed here most of all. 980 will cost 1k$ probably
> 
> And why would AMD price 290x below 780 if it performs similar to it? Some ppl makes no sense in defending a brand.


This ^

Blame Nvidia folks... not AMD


----------



## youra6

My credit limit is right around 750. I'm guessing it's a sign for me to keep my 670s until Maxwell.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> cache


It fixed itself.

I'm just getting less and less anxious. I want one of these...


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> so you have proof of this 780 performance? and as said, its not $750, only for canadians, where titans are actually real.


725$ or whatever. If it's more expensive it will perform better.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> Price is 750 $


There is always price gouging with a new card, and a game bundle so still hard to say, still need to wait to 15th imo. I would guess 649$ when things settle down.


----------



## tpi2007

Can somebody tell me if third parties will be allowed to release reviews today ? Or will AMD at least release any kind of benchmarks ? Is AMD really expecting people to shell out $750 for a card with unknown performance ? I don't think that has ever happened before.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Can somebody tell me if third parties will be allowed to release reviews today ? Or will AMD at least release any kind of benchmarks ? Is AMD really expecting people to shell out $750 for a card with unknown performance ? I don't think that has ever happened before.


I think it happened with bulldozer no?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Can somebody tell me if third parties will be allowed to release reviews today ? Or will AMD at least release any kind of benchmarks ? Is AMD really expecting people to shell out $750 for a card with unknown performance ? I don't think that has ever happened before.


NDA lifts on the 15th.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you're trying to imply here. Elaborate?
Click to expand...

Sure. These two cards offer more or less the same performance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130781
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TamaDrumz76*
> 
> Looking forward to this card... I just _may_ pull the trigger on one.
> 
> However, for the card only, I cannot see it being more than the 7990. *That card is at 699 USD*, and I would think it's still going to be more powerful than the single chip 290X. BF4 bundle, I can see being $649 though... That would make a lot of sense.


$580, actually. See above link.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> The 7970/280X is at $300 and the 7990 is at $600.
> 
> By this standard, the 780 should be at $400, the Titan at $500, the 690 at $600, and the 290x at $450.
> 
> But you know, $730 is totally unfair for a GPU that in theory stands between the $650 and $1000 ones. Especially when it is a limited-edition pre-order version that comes with a game and will of course be tagged with Never Settle Gold...
> 
> Absolutely amazing how some people will justify nVidia's prices but not this one. And they call it comparing to Titan! Ha! They're basing the price off the $650 780, obviously, and frankly that too is overpriced as you yourself noted. If they wanted price/performance, they should look at the 7970/280x for $300 that plays tag with the $400 770. Those price cuts from nvidia can't come fast enough.
> I can see how you would think that... But the GTX 690 is standing over there in the corner laughing at you.
> AMD's US Headquarters is in the PST time zone, so ya, pretty much.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you remember when the 280 released for $650, and it was $499 within a week, what caused it to drop in price?
> 
> What kept the 480, 580, 680 at $499?
> 
> I really wish people stopped price comparisons with Titan in mind, here's why:
> 
> 1. When Titan released it was ~35% - 40% faster than the 7970.
> 
> 2. It has 1/3 DP, which puts it up there as an "Entry Level" compute card, an alternative to K20X.
> 
> 3. Because it was a Premium Product. ( 3930K --> 3970X ) Hint: Titan is like the 3970X.
> 
> Let's look at the 780, it's about 30% faster than 7970, and therefore NVIDIA got away with pricing it at $650. It carried a premium for being so much faster than the competition.
> 
> Now, AMD is offering ( I'm assuming the same performance ) 5 months later, and it's pricing it on par with 780.
> 
> What's the point in that? Same price, same performance, there are no official benches yet, so it remains to be seen how it does @1440p.
> 
> Competition is supposed to drive prices down, not just match them at the apparently new $650 price segment for "high end" cards.
> 
> Hey, it's fine if AMD wants to do this, and match the prices and all, since the performance is there. I would like to stop hearing how AMD is the Price / Performance King over and over again around here that's all.
> 
> Look at their own lineup.
> 
> 280X = $299
> 290X = $729
> 
> Makes sense.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall the 7970's launch price being based on it's performance against the 580. When you can charge more, you will. Frankly with the 280x at $300 the ball in is nVidia's court now to cut prices. I don't see why AMD should bother charging less when nVidia can't get with the program... (See: 690, 680, 670, 770, 780)


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> I don't see why AMD should bother charging less when nVidia can't get with the program... (See: 690, 680, 670, 770, 780)


Same reason they've always charged less - because they can't command as high a price as Nvidia.


----------



## Dart06

I see no reason why you guys are arguing.

I'm too busy fighting the zzzzz monster.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Can somebody tell me if third parties will be allowed to release reviews today ? Or will AMD at least release any kind of benchmarks ? Is AMD really expecting people to shell out $750 for a card with unknown performance ? I don't think that has ever happened before.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it happened with bulldozer no?
Click to expand...

I was talking about GPUs (and in this case much more expensive than AMD's CPUs). I'm not sure about Bulldozer though. Did they put them up for pre-order before people knew the performance ? I think it was just the boards that could be bought many weeks or months before, but at least those worked with the Phenom II line, even though lots of people bought them in anticipation for Bulldozer.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Can somebody tell me if third parties will be allowed to release reviews today ? Or will AMD at least release any kind of benchmarks ? Is AMD really expecting people to shell out $750 for a card with unknown performance ? I don't think that has ever happened before.
> 
> 
> 
> NDA lifts on the 15th.
Click to expand...

Thanks! So... pre-ordering right now is for those that have some kind of faith ? Like that Indiana Jones movie where he trusts and walks across an abyss because there is a path of invisible rocks hidden by an optical illusion ?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> AMD Radeon R9 290X BF4 Edition PLACEHOLDER - **DEPOSIT** (You will need to pay more mid-end October!)


Source: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-015-AM

This looks a bit different but the plus side is:

Quote:


> Instructions:-
> 1. If you want AMD's new flagship single GPU card the R9 290X place a DEPOSIT NOW by ordering!
> 2. Middle too end October we shall contact you via email, at which point you can call us to select the brand you want and pay the additional money required.
> *3. If you are unhappy with the launch pricing or have changed your mind, your full £99 DEPOSIT shall be refunded at your request.*
> 4. Final price to be confirmed!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Sure. These two cards offer more or less the same performance:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130781
> $580, actually. See above link.
> I seem to recall the 7970's launch price being based on it's performance against the 580. When you can charge more, you will. Frankly with the 280x at $300 the ball in is nVidia's court now to cut prices. I don't see why AMD should bother charging less when nVidia can't get with the program... (See: 690, 680, 670, 770, 780)


Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, or can't seem or want to understand it. It's all good.









Remember, when the 7990 card dropped, it didn't have the frame pacing drivers it has today, AMD was forced to price drop because they were likely not selling at the asking price.









Anyway, I'm not sure what this debate is about, you've solidified my point that AMD ALWAYS prices their products based on their performance, when they are cheaper, there's a reason why.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Source: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-015-AM
> 
> This looks a bit different but the plus side is:


That UK awesomeness.


----------



## jojoenglish85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> That UK awesomeness.


Ya UK is awesome until you get there and realize the U.S Dollar is like toilet paper lol.


----------



## jojoenglish85

Oh well im going to bed, im not waiting any longer for it to show up.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jojoenglish85*
> 
> Oh well im going to bed, im not waiting any longer for it to show up.


Godspeed.

With my luck it won't even pop up tonight.

And by tonight I mean this morning.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Godspeed.
> 
> With my luck it won't even pop up tonight.
> 
> And by tonight I mean this morning.


Do you plan on pre-ordering for $729?


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Do you plan on pre-ordering for $729?


Eh. Probably?

I get tons of "free" money so it is basically a free card. I'm not totally worried about the price and if the performance and OC ability doesn't pan out, I can cancel/return it.

I also want to try a Radeon card for once (been only Nvidia thus far) and I don't want to get a 7000 series card.


----------



## Clocknut

lol is more like $800 with BF4 version/bundle.
700+ with retail mark up on those without BF4.
600+ official AMD MSRP price?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, or can't seem or want to understand it. It's all good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, when the 7990 card dropped, it didn't have the frame pacing drivers it has today, AMD was forced to price drop because they were likely not selling at the asking price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure what this debate is about, you've solidified my point that *AMD ALWAYS prices their products based on their performance,* when they are cheaper, there's a reason why.


What?


----------



## Dart06

So maybe I'll just play some windowed BF4 while I wait for it to come out...

I don't feel like missing out.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> With 8 core next gen consoles only a month away and 64 bit games starting to become the norm, I think that logic will be false very very soon.


Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Plus, you lose more $$$ by buying the lower part and reselling that at a loss to get the higher part than if you just gotten the higher part to begin with.


----------



## Moustache

290x+bf4 = $729.99 (cad)
290x+bf4 = $699.99 (us)
290x (sa) = $599.99???


----------



## Newbie2009

If it is the same price as a 780 it needs to be faster. If I wanted 780 performance @ 780 price I would have bought a 780 months ago.

I would guess it will match titan in some apps and loose to the 780 in others. I personally have lost interest in purchasing one, such a long drag.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> What?


What's so hard to understand?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> What's so hard to understand?


So for example the 7970 is cheaper than the 680 because it's slower? 7990 cheaper than the 690 because it's slower?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Yep. I feel like a lot of us are going to be pleasantly surprised about it.
> 
> It will be faster in AMD optimised games for sure.


I'm not so optimistic.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> If it is the same price as a 780 it needs to be faster. If I wanted 780 performance @ 780 price I would have bought a 780 months ago.
> 
> I would guess it will match titan in some apps and loose to the 780 in others. I personally have lost interest in purchasing one, such a long drag.


Yep. I feel like a lot of us are going to be pleasantly surprised about it.

It will be faster in AMD optimised games for sure.


----------



## kot0005

Woah new rumour that it has 64 Rop's lol

Quote:


> This is pretty much what we've expected. The R9 290X will feature Hawaii XT GPU with 2816 Stream Processors. In addition to that we have 176 TMUs and 44 ROPs *(I have at least two different sources claiming it has 64 ROPs)*.


http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> So for example the 7970 is cheaper than the 680 because it's slower? 7990 cheaper than the 690 because it's slower?


7970 faster than 580 at launch, and was $550, did you forget that part? The 680 was faster at launch, and cheaper.

The $1000 7990 did not have frame pacing drivers when it came out, and it wasn't selling, again, AMD was forced to price drop.

Please don't ignore launch prices, over time, AMD was forced to price drop.


----------



## Dart06

Man, I haven't stayed up for this long since the 24 hour shifts I used to pull in the military...

Gah.

Can someone briefly explain why the number of RoPs is important for the 290x?


----------



## wermad

The way I see it, Nvidia is like Porsche. It may not be the most spec'd out sports car out there (fastest, most outlandish, etc.), but its well rounded and sorted. That's the premium you pay for something 100% sorted. Amd gpu(s) are more finicky to work with. They can bring gpus that are faster (ie Corvette) but fall short in many places. Nvidia is not perfect, but overall they do more things right. Amd will do a few things very right but have a few others go bad. That's why Nvidia has a higher resale value. Yes, you can find a faster 7970 for about the same as a 670 but there are ppl willing to pay the premium for a more sorted product (ie Porsche).

Mind you Hawaii can change this. We'll just have to wait for the reviews.

My


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Man, I haven't stayed up for this long since the 24 hour shifts I used to pull in the military...
> 
> Gah.
> 
> Can someone briefly explain why the number of RoPs is important for the 290x?


Sure.

7970 = 2048 Shaders, 32 ROPS.

R9-290x = 2816 Shaders, 44(?) ROPS.

2816/2048 = 1.375
44/32 = 1.375

7970 was, in theory, ROP bottlenecked. With 44, the problem is not solved. With 64, it might be.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> 7970 faster than 580 at launch, and was $550, did you forget that part? The 680 was faster at launch, and cheaper.
> 
> The $1000 7990 did not have frame pacing drivers when it came out, and it wasn't selling, again, AMD was forced to price drop.
> 
> Please don't ignore launch prices, over time, AMD was forced to price drop.


Oh you are specifically talking about launch prices? I took it as AMD cards are cheaper because they they are not as fast from your statement.

One thing for sure, AMD are just as bad as Nvidia with new products. Last reasonably priced card for the performance I had was probably the gtx 570.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 7970 = 2048 Shaders, 32 ROPS.
> 
> R9-290x = 2816 Shaders, 44(?) ROPS.
> 
> 2816/2048 = 1.375
> 44/32 = 1.375
> 
> 7970 was, in theory, ROP bottlenecked. With 44, the problem is not solved. With 64, it might be.


So are ROPs directly related to the potential performance of the card? If it was 64 by some grace, how much more of an impact would it have?


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> The way I see it, Nvidia is like Porsche. It may not be the most spec'd out sports car out there (fastest, most outlandish, etc.), but its well rounded and sorted. That's the premium you pay for something 100% sorted. Amd gpu(s) are more finicky to work with. They can bring gpus that are faster (ie Corvette) but fall short in many places. Nvidia is not perfect, but overall they do more things right. Amd will do a few things very right but have a few others go bad. That's why Nvidia has a higher resale value. Yes, you can find a faster 7970 for about the same as a 670 but there are ppl willing to pay the premium for a more sorted product (ie Porsche).
> 
> Mind you Hawaii can change this. We'll just have to wait for the reviews.
> 
> My


The funny thing is that AMD's GCN cards are far better rounded than their similarly priced Nvidia counterparts. Compute, memory bandwidth, amount of VRAM and overclocking headroom just to name a few things.

Comparable Keplers have a lot of shading power/watt, but fall short in a lot of other areas.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Oh you are specifically talking about launch prices? I took it as AMD cards are cheaper because they they are not as fast from your statement.
> 
> One thing for sure, AMD are just as bad as Nvidia with new products. Last reasonably priced card for the performance I had was probably the gtx 570.


Yeah, and I should've said almost always.









Last reasonably priced card is my 470, which I still have.

I'm not a fan of this new $650 price paradigm for high end cards, which apparently both companies are participating in.

I used to think $500 was high for the 580, lol. Now it seems like a bargain to have an x80 card at $500 again.

This price gouging started when GK104 was used for the 680.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 7970 = 2048 Shaders, 32 ROPS.
> 
> R9-290x = 2816 Shaders, 44(?) ROPS.
> 
> 2816/2048 = 1.375
> 44/32 = 1.375
> 
> 7970 was, in theory, ROP bottlenecked. With 44, the problem is not solved. With 64, it might be.
> 
> 
> 
> So are ROPs directly related to the potential performance of the card? If it was 64 by some grace, how much more of an impact would it have?
Click to expand...

In Theory.

These are the key words. It may be, it may not be. If I had to make a guess (yes a guess)...

The 7950 is ~5% slower clock for clock than the 7970, even though it has a full 1/8th fewer shaders. The 7950 retains the full 32 ROPS of the 7970.

Assuming the above facts are true (regarding performance, I never did test it myself), the ROPs _could_ be holding back at least 7% more performance.

Once again though, this is all theory. Nothing more. We have no proof, because there is no 36 ROP 7970 for us to test with.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yeah, and I should've said almost always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last reasonably priced card is my 470, which I still have.
> 
> I'm not a fan of this new $650 price paradigm for high end cards, which apparently both companies are participating in.
> 
> I used to think $500 was high for the 580, lol. Now it seems like a bargain to have an x80 card at $500 again.
> 
> This price gouging started when GK104 was used for the 680.


Yeah $650, 2 cards, throw in some blocks. They loose out in the long run.
I would normally have upgraded annually, but seriously think I will hold onto my cards for another year, which will make it 3 years with 7970s. Their greed has lost them 1 gen from me minimum.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> The funny thing is that AMD's GCN cards are far better rounded than their similarly priced Nvidia counterparts. Compute, memory bandwidth, amount of VRAM and overclocking headroom just to name a few things.
> 
> Comparable Keplers have a lot of shading power/watt, but fall short in a lot of other areas.


Primary emphasis is gaming for a gpu right? Amd has fallen short many times. They're resale value says it all. I've given them many opportunities but it hasn't worked out with me in the end. Even at ~6 months old, I bought two 7970s for $300 each and saw a few non-reference go for less then $300. I didn't bother with the 680 4gb as those were commanding $450+. 680 2gb were going for ~$350-400. Though the first 7970 had massive coil whine and the second one i got tired of the screen tearing issue I just returned the coil whine and sold the second one. Drivers were all over the place as usual. But a well priced 4-way was very tempting until the frustrations were too great. I actually went w/ quad 580 3gbs







.

As I've said, they have several great things about them and the specs are great too but there's lots of bad things. Overall, Nvidia has provided a more sorted product and their resale value says it all.

edit: again, waiting on Hawaii to pass judgment on that one


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> In Theory.
> 
> These are the key words. It may be, it may not be. If I had to make a guess (yes a guess)...
> 
> The 7950 is ~5% slower clock for clock than the 7970, even though it has a full 1/8th fewer shaders. The 7950 retains the full 32 ROPS of the 7970.
> 
> Assuming the above facts are true (regarding performance, I never did test it myself), the ROPs _could_ be holding back at least 7% more performance.
> 
> Once again though, this is all theory. Nothing more. We have no proof, because there is no 36 ROP 7970 for us to test with.


Sounds complex. So would performance gains decrease the more ROPs a card had?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Sounds complex. So would performance gains decrease the more ROPs a card had?


Yes, at some point ROPs are no longer the limiting factor, and then adding more doesn't help.


----------



## Aventadoor

http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/184361-asus_radeon_r9-290x_4gb_battlefield_4_bundle_limited_edition

It costs 7299SEK in Sweden, which is 1145USD.
Obviously its gonne be cheaper in the US, but with that price it looks like it will cost as much as GTX780, probably more.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Primary emphasis is gaming for a gpu right? Amd has fallen short many times. They're resale value says it all. I've given them many opportunities but it hasn't worked out with me in the end. Even at ~6 months old, I bought two 7970s for $300 each and saw a few non-reference go for less then $300. I didn't bother with the 680 4gb as those were commanding $450+. 680 2gb were going for ~$350-400. Though the first 7970 had massive coil whine and the second one i got tired of the screen tearing issue I just returned the coil whine and sold the second one. Drivers were all over the place as usual. But a well priced 4-way was very tempting until the frustrations were too great. I actually went w/ quad 580 3gbs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> As I've said, they have several great things about them and the specs are great too but there's lots of bad things. Overall, Nvidia has provided a more sorted product and their resale value says it all.
> 
> edit: again, waiting on Hawaii to pass judgment on that one


It seems like Hawaii will be a more polished GPU. Frame Pacing shouldn't be an issue, and it will have mature drivers, since it's a tweaked GCN core afterall.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/hardvara/184361-asus_radeon_r9-290x_4gb_battlefield_4_bundle_limited_edition
> 
> It costs 7299SEK in Sweden, which is 1145USD.
> Obviously its gonne be cheaper in the US, but with that price it looks like it will cost as much as GTX780, probably more.


Wow you really dont read anything other than the 1st page do oyu?


----------



## Dart06

Anyone else still waiting for the preorders to start or am I alone?


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Wow you really dont read anything other than the 1st page do oyu?


No haha

But now webhallen.com have changed their prices on it to 9999SEK


----------



## kot0005

Pre orders in Australia arent open yet even tho we are a day ahead. On second thoughts I am thinking of going with the 780 classified. $750 for a reference card is a bit too much, In Australia they will just price it at $1000...


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> It seems like Hawaii will be a more polished GPU. Frame Pacing shouldn't be an issue, and it will have mature drivers, since it's a tweaked GCN core afterall.


It's pretty much a GCN Kepler, like Kepler was a refinement of Fermi pretty much.


----------



## FlyingSolo

I'll get one if its around £500 since am spending another £550 or more for the PS4


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Pre orders in Australia arent open yet even tho we are a day ahead. On second thoughts I am thinking of going with the 780 classified. $750 for a reference card is a bit too much, In Australia they will just price it at $1000...


PCCG/Umart don't have access to the BF4 Bundles, so you wont see anything go up yet here. PCCG dropped a hint the other day that the standard reference R9 290X be up for order on the 15th October. I'd expect it to be priced @ $780-$820


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> PCCG/Umart don't have access to the BF4 Bundles, so you wont see anything go up yet here. PCCG dropped a hint the other day that the standard reference R9 290X be up for order on the 15th October. I'd expect it to be priced @ $780-$820


$820 ref is still expensive for a reference card and no BF4..., So if BF4 with premium of $150 is added, its guna be close it $1k.

Rather buy a 780 classi + the new waterblock and overclock it .

I was expecting it to be $150 lower than the classi with BF4, so it would be around $900 with a waterblock.

Actually I might order it from NCIX, screw local suppliers. While I was trying to buy the 780 classi hydro I got a $57 shipping quote.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Sure. These two cards offer more or less the same performance:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130781


Ahh okay, I see what your implying now;

You're saying the competition provided by AMD had no effect on the price of 690. That's fair enough, because for the most part it didn't. I suspect that's because NV aren't exactly trying to keep them competitive though, and as a result, no one is actually buying a 690 these days, unless they're being bought @ $649 as was posted in the Online Deals section 2-3 weeks ago.

Cheers

Edit: I guess what I'm saying here is, competition ideally will drive the price down so long as the 'other company' wants to compete. If they feel no need to compete (such as NV and their 690's), they wont adjust the price. I feel competition is much more likely when the current-gen flagship single GPU's are on the table
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> $820 ref is still expensive for a reference card and no BF4..., So if BF4 with premium of $150 is added, its guna be close it $1k.
> 
> Rather buy a 780 classi + the new waterblock and overclock it .
> 
> I was expecting it to be $150 lower than the classi with BF4, so it would be around $900 with a waterblock.
> 
> Actually I might order it from NCIX, screw local suppliers. While I was trying to buy the 780 classi hydro I got a $57 shipping quote.


Oh I deffs agree; I believe the ref R2D2 is too expensive as well.

Yeah I'll be ordering from either Amazon or NCIX.ca as well; PCCG do their best, but it's still a joke.


----------



## Clockster

Mmmm Listings vanished off of Newegg now...
Wonder if they are busy updating...lol

Such an idiot, I live on the other side of the earth lol but I am checking new egg xD


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Mmmm Listings vanished off of Newegg now...
> Wonder if they are busy updating...lol
> 
> Such an idiot, I live on the other side of the earth lol but I am checking new egg xD


They are still up for me.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Yeah I'll be ordering from either Amazon or NCIX.ca as well; PCCG do their best, but it's still a joke.


I just had a dream that 1 AUD will be worth 2 USD, because of the govt. shut down


----------



## hatlesschimp

Are the new AMD gpus running HDMI 2.0?

Please say yes lol


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> I just had a dream that 1 AUD will be worth 2 USD, because of the govt. shut down


Nah, AUD is still mostly tied to the USD, so we'll drop too.

Buying from NCIX.ca (and price matching with Newegg.ca beforehand) works out a little nicer for us than buying from Amazon/TD


----------



## hatlesschimp

Watch out for the inport tax. I copped it with my titans.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> I just had a dream that 1 AUD will be worth 2 USD, because of the govt. shut down


Federal Reserve =/= Federal Government. Just sayin'.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Are the new AMD gpus running HDMI 2.0?
> 
> Please say yes lol


Well it is still 3 lanes so the old cards might even do it.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Well it is still 3 lanes so the old cards might even do it.


Huh?


----------



## Dart06

Still waiting out for the prerelease. Seems like it might not happen anytime soon.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Federal Reserve =/= Federal Government. Just sayin'.


He's talking about a drop in USD value due to lack of confidence in the US market, which can be directly affected by the US govt


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Watch out for the inport tax. I copped it with my titans.


Isnt import tax only on goods worth $1000 and above?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Still waiting out for the prerelease. Seems like it might not happen anytime soon.


Common dude, its 6am wait till its 10am or something.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Isnt import tax only on goods worth $1000 and above?


I've ordered like 300$ worth of contacts from Canada before (they don't require a doctor's prescription to order) and I didn't pay any tax. This makes sense.

I wish I knew what time they were putting the 290x up to purchase on Newegg...


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I've ordered like 300$ worth of contacts from Canada before (they don't require a doctor's prescription to order) and I didn't pay any tax. This makes sense.
> 
> I wish I knew what time they were putting the 290x up to purchase on Newegg...


yeh, hatlesschimp said "Titans" so def over $1k


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> yeh, hatlesschimp said "Titans" so def over $1k


Sorry. I'm super tired.


----------



## hatlesschimp

they were $1029 each at the time. Lol

Got slugged 240 extra to release them lol


----------



## hatlesschimp

Sorry this may be stupid question but is the r9 290 the New 7970.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Sorry this may be stupid question but is the r9 290 the New 7970.


Yes, their new single gpu card, flagship. - R9 290X
Actual rebranded 7970 = R9 280X


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Huh?


PMd you about the titans


----------



## Offler

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series

Wikipedia used to add such info only in case if products were already released, but this... WOW. But only if its true and not hoax


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Sorry this may be stupid question but is the r9 290 the New 7970.


R9 290X aka Hawaii XT is the new flagship GPU from AMD. R9 290 aka Hawaii Pro is the other GPU. the relation between R9 290X and R9 290 is similar to HD 7970 and HD 7950.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Huh?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series
> 
> Wikipedia used to add such info only in case if products were already released, but this... WOW. But only if its true and not hoax


Should probably take that with a massive grain of salt.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Should probably take that with a massive grain of salt.


Several tons of salt


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Should probably take that with a massive grain of salt.


yeah


----------



## Dart06

Newegg PLS.

I'll pay whatever price you put up there. Well, think about it. I'll at least start the process but I needs sleep. I'm close to that 24 hour mark.

If the 290x is close to or beats a Titan I'd be soooo happy.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Yes, their new single gpu card, flagship. - R9 290X
> Actual rebranded 7970 = R9 280X


And to actually answer his question, No the R290 is not.

also

Newegg has them in the 500-750 price bracket


----------



## davio

If the 280X is identical to the 7970 but more expensive in Australia I'm going to get pissed. Technology prices in Australia (and other countries) is daylight robbery!


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Newegg PLS.
> 
> I'll pay whatever price you put up there. Well, think about it. I'll at least start the process but I needs sleep. I'm close to that 24 hour mark.
> 
> If the 290x is close to or beats a Titan I'd be soooo happy.


I seen an ETA for these cards @ 31/10/13, so don't hold your breath.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I seen an ETA for these cards @ 31/10/13, so don't hold your breath.


I'm talking about just preordering. That's all I care about.

I've seen "coming soon" for too long on their page.


----------



## Maximization

anyone get one yet?


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximization*
> 
> anyone get one yet?


Can't order them on newegg, amazon, or ncix yet.


----------



## anticommon

Glad I didn't stay up for the release... I'd still be up.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Glad I didn't stay up for the release... I'd still be up.


Like me?









I don't know how much longer I've got in me.


----------



## Rtrbtn

I don't understand why people are saying they won't get it or get a 780 instead if it's over 600/650. It could be faster than the 780, competing with the Titan, with an extra 1GB Vram, a 512 bit bus, much better compute and plus the Mantle API.

So in disagreement with Amd prices, you would go and pay the same for an Nvidia card with lesser specs? How does that make sense?


----------



## Durquavian

Now maybe I am wrong but wasn't it released that the preorder was moved back or canceled? It was then that the NDA was set at oct 15.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Now maybe I am wrong but wasn't it released that the preorder was moved back or canceled? It was then that the NDA was set at oct 15.


Nope, that was misinformation. Some UK retailers already started taking preorders hours ago.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> they were $1029 each at the time. Lol
> 
> Got slugged 240 extra to release them lol


Im not sure if that was because I bought them at the same time and the equalled 2,000 aud or that they were individually over 1k.

In the end I could have got them from my local store for maybe $100 and I wouldnt have had to wait 4 weeks for them to arrive LOL


----------



## KaiserFrederick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> I don't understand why people are saying they won't get it or get a 780 instead if it's over 600/650. It could be faster than the 780, competing with the Titan, with an extra 1GB Vram, a 512 bit bus, much better compute and plus the Mantle API.
> 
> So in disagreement with Amd prices, you would go and pay the same for an Nvidia card with lesser specs? How does that make sense?


This is what I'm thinking. Even though a 290X will be very close to the price of a 780 here in Australia, I think I'll go with AMD's offering simply because of the promise of Mantle. I know it's a risk, but if it takes off it will be awesome. Plus I'd rather buy into the possibility of new/innovative technology than an already ageing comparable NVidia offering.


----------



## hatlesschimp

why did they have to change the model numbers now a simple pleb like *"Hatlesschimp"* cant figure out what is a good graphics card. - Its just the way harvey norman wants it!!









Question time!

Q1: SOOOO is the 290x a single gpu or a dual like the GTX 690 / 7990???

Q2: is the 280x a re housed and rebadged HD7970???


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> why did they have to change the model numbers now a simple pleb like *"Hatlesschimp"* cant figure out what is a good graphics card. - Its just the way harvey norman wants it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question time!
> 
> Q1: SOOOO is the 290x a single gpu or a dual like the GTX 690 / 7990???
> 
> Q2: is the 280x a re housed and rebadged HD7970???


Yes it's single GPU and yes.


----------



## Dispersion

I haven't read all of the comments yet, but I live in Sweden and that price is WITH taxes.

To put things in perspective, GTX Titan costs anywhere from 8500-10000 SEK (1300 - 1550 USD) and a GTX 780 costs ~5500 SEK (850 USD), all of them are WITH taxes included.


----------



## hatlesschimp

*Thanks Dart06*

People from Australia will appreciate the quirky Harvey Norman sarcasm in that last post of mine - just in case you are wondering who Harvey Norman is, they are franchise store that deal in electrical , bedding, living room, whitegoods and they over charge and prey on easy targets.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaiserFrederick*
> 
> This is what I'm thinking. Even though a 290X will be very close to the price of a 780 here in Australia, I think I'll go with AMD's offering simply because of the promise of Mantle. I know it's a risk, but if it takes off it will be awesome. Plus I'd rather buy into the possibility of new/innovative technology than an already ageing comparable NVidia offering.


It wont be close to reference 780, cheapest 780 is $699 at scorptech for the palit jetstream. If this card without BF4 will be $850 then It wont be worth buying it in Australia.

I was comparing it to 780 classi


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> I don't understand why people are saying they won't get it or get a 780 instead if it's over 600/650. It could be faster than the 780, competing with the Titan, with an extra 1GB Vram, a 512 bit bus, much better compute and plus the Mantle API.
> 
> So in disagreement with Amd prices, you would go and pay the same for an Nvidia card with lesser specs? How does that make sense?


Well, for $30 less than the 290x you can buy a classified 780. If you plan on overclocking, most classifieds will yield around 1200+mhz on the core and now that they are shipping with samsung memory about +500 on the memory. This should bring the performance of the card above that of the titan and depending what games you are planning on playing, well above the 290x. If the 290x can't OC or if it doesn't scale well to OC'ing for some reason, then it will (most likely) end up performing worse than a 780 overclocked.

I'm buying my cards based on a performance basis (not picking a side, AMD or nVidia) with a little bit of lean depending on price. If the cards operate just the same and one is cheaper, the decision is clear


----------



## keikei

Well, newegg has the cards posted, but theres only an *auto-notify* when its available. No price as well. Good luck for those members hunting for these.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Well, newegg has the cards posted, but theres only an *auto-notify* when its available. No price as well. Good luck for those members hunting for these.


I've been on the hunt since like 11pm central time last night... I know when I go to sleep they'll pop up.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Well, for $30 less than the 290x you can buy a classified 780. If you plan on overclocking, most classifieds will yield around 1200+mhz on the core and now that they are shipping with samsung memory about +500 on the memory. This should bring the performance of the card above that of the titan and depending what games you are planning on playing, well above the 290x. If the 290x can't OC or if it doesn't scale well to OC'ing for some reason, then it will (most likely) end up performing worse than a 780 overclocked.
> 
> I'm buying my cards based on a performance basis (not picking a side, AMD or nVidia) with a little bit of lean depending on price. If the cards operate just the same and one is cheaper, the decision is clear


You also have to consider Mantle now as well. I'm hearing december release however.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Well, for $30 less than the 290x you can buy a classified 780. If you plan on overclocking, most classifieds will yield around 1200+mhz on the core and now that they are shipping with samsung memory about +500 on the memory. This should bring the performance of the card above that of the titan and depending what games you are planning on playing, well above the 290x. If the 290x can't OC or if it doesn't scale well to OC'ing for some reason, then it will (most likely) end up performing worse than a 780 overclocked.
> 
> I'm buying my cards based on a performance basis (not picking a side, AMD or nVidia) with a little bit of lean depending on price. If the cards operate just the same and one is cheaper, the decision is clear


+ 780 Has waterblock ready now.

And thanks to AMD for pricing it so high, Nvidia wont be dropping the price of GTX 780.


----------



## t00sl0w

these things havent launched yet?


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t00sl0w*
> 
> these things havent launched yet?


Nope. The sooner the better.


----------



## hatlesschimp

what do you think is a realistic launch date?

LOL just found this

http://www.overclock.net/t/1430868/techpowerup-amd-r-series-launch-dates

14th/15th of October maybe?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> You also have to consider Mantle now as well. I'm hearing december release however.


For $599 sure, but for $750? I will believe it when I see it.


----------



## solt

Apologies for my ignorance, but do we have a price yet?


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solt*
> 
> Apologies for my ignorance, but do we have a price yet?


Tom's is reporting *$599*.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Tom's is *reposting $599*.


Fixed for you. They are consistently late to news, and repeat the rumors that have been going around for the past week. They are about the worst place to get tech news, unless you like to be far behind the times.

As of right now, no one currently knows the release price.


----------



## hatlesschimp

so how may 290x's to run a 4k monitor/tv?


----------



## Renairy

I don't mean to be a killjoy...... But why is everyone waiting for the 290X ?

If i remember correctly, there already is a "290x" out and its been out for almost 6 months now from a different company.

Someone is a little late to the party don't you think ? I mean, if this thing doesn't stomp a GTX 780 *AND* the Titan, than I'm really sorry to say that a pointless release is pointless.
AMD are pricing this equal to or slightly below the 780. Given the margin of performance difference versus the time this thing took to launch after the competition is way within the confines of impressive.
Not to mention the quality of software related issues we have been seeing.

Yes i know we need the competition to keep prices in check, but as witnessed by the TITAN's shocking pricetag, right now AMD are doing horribly and that has given the ruthless Nvidia advantage to our pocket. If anybody wants to see a monster emerge out of AMD, it is me.
Cudos for trying AMD, but we need more and we need it right now !


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Huh?


The HDMi specifications is the same no such thing as MST is introduced so just pushing may do it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> they were $1029 each at the time. Lol
> 
> Got slugged 240 extra to release them lol


guess they'll drop after pre order by a lot
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> so how may 290x's to run a 4k monitor/tv?


Just 1 if you don't go full ****** maxing AA.
I run a 40fps refresh 4K UHD panel with a 570 just keep the AA down.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> I don't mean to be a killjoy...... But why is everyone waiting for the 290X ?
> 
> If i remember correctly, there already is a "290x" out and its been out for almost 6 months now from a different company.
> 
> Someone is a little late to the party don't you think ? I mean, if this thing doesn't stomp a GTX 780 *AND* the Titan, than I'm really sorry to say that a pointless release is pointless.
> AMD are pricing this equal to or slightly below the 780. Given the margin of performance difference versus the time this thing took to launch after the competition is way within the confines of impressive.
> Not to mention the quality of software related issues we have been seeing.
> 
> Yes i know we need the competition to keep prices in check, but as witnessed by the TITAN's shocking pricetag, right now AMD are doing horribly and that has given the ruthless Nvidia advantage to our pocket. If anybody wants to see a monster emerge out of AMD, it is me.
> Cudos for trying AMD, but we need more and we need it right now !


It will stomp the the 780 clock for clock with a smaller die.
It has superior memory bandwidth while not really that big a deal will will help with resolution scaling.
The 290x is a better chip considering Nvidia has a ~530 equal die (yes gk110 is bigger but only counting active space) against it.

And Nvidia's drivers have been sucking for me since 320 there really is no better in the drivers both are equal both have problems.


----------



## Shadeh

Yeah, thank you nvidia for setting a new price benchmark with your stupid Titan. I'm not giong to buy anything that exceeds 650 euros. NOTHING. I much prefer 500~600.. but anything above is just over doing it. Really..

Can't believe graphic cards are getting so expensive, maybe i should blame those who are willing to mindlessly lash out so much money for it.


----------



## hatlesschimp

I respect you Maarten a lot but at the moment I'm lost and I know you are saying something important and it may work.

So i have 3 gtx titans and I have Sony 65" x900 series 4K tv on the way. It only has HDMI 1.4 at the moment but should have hdmi 2.0 via an firmware update by Sony soon. Once they do the TV is enabled to 4k @ 60hz via HDMI 2.0 input.
My titan is only hdmi1.4 - can i over clock this to 60p 4k? or are you saying use an adapter from the titan DP1.2 port to HDMI and give that a whirl in the HDMI of tv.

Thanks Maarten!


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> I don't mean to be a killjoy...... But why is everyone waiting for the 290X ?
> 
> If i remember correctly, there already is a "290x" out and its been out for almost 6 months now from a different company.
> 
> Someone is a little late to the party don't you think ? I mean, if this thing doesn't stomp a GTX 780 *AND* the Titan, than I'm really sorry to say that a pointless release is pointless.
> AMD are pricing this equal to or *above* the 780. Given the margin of performance difference versus the time this thing took to launch after the competition is way within the confines of impressive.
> Not to mention the quality of software related issues we have been seeing.
> 
> Yes i know we need the competition to keep prices in check, but as witnessed by the TITAN's shocking pricetag, right now AMD are doing horribly and that has given the ruthless Nvidia advantage to our pocket. If anybody wants to see a monster emerge out of AMD, it is me.
> Cudos for trying AMD, but we need more and we need it right now !


Fixed for you.


----------



## fateswarm

But seriiously, people with a pile of money should think of their responsiblity to society. I know it's easy to them to say "I'll preorder it, who cares, if it's bad, I still have my pile of money". But at the same time you have to think of your responsiblity to society and the advancement of technology, you can't just buy randomly, buy the best, the proven best, wait for benchmarks.


----------



## hession

you talk like the titan and 780 are miles apart. they are very close in performance. there are 780s taking titans out. peep reviews. also take into account the extra $350 for 6gb vram/compute/internet-status. amd having titan performance or better for $600/$650 is complete win. I don't support either side on the gpu front - I have multiple cards from both parties from the past 3 generations. I saw the titan reviews back in march vs what was currently available and immediately said to myself - that is not worth the $ tag, only a fool would pay that much for a card with 6gb vram + compute + internet-status + cool name + 5% gain in performance

pricing this card near the 780 is completely fine. people hail the titan with its laughable price tag - yet - you don't mind at all. i smell fanboi

titan drops for 1,ggg. 780 drops for 650. amd competes with 780/titan for 600/650 and that's a bad thing in your eyes

what I'M thinking about is if the 780/780+ (the titan) will get a price drop and how big. titan = 800? 780 = 500? fail if not and i will l m a o


----------



## provost

290x is AMD's "halo" card just as Titan was for Nvidia. Although 290x sounds more hollow than halo at the moment, since we don't have any reviews. The real price/performance enthusiast card winner from AMD might just be the 290 pro with Mantle, whenever Mantle is released. AMD is just using 290x to create hype in order to sell the other cards coming out.
The strategy seems very familiar to what Nvidia did with the Titan. It is clear that AMD wants to follow rather than lead, and there is nothing wrong with it. But, people have to understand that AMD exists to make money for its shareholders just as Nvidia, so they should not be disappointed if AMD sets prices based on what is good for its bottom line rather than for the fans.
At the end of the day, there are no Nvidia fans or AMD fans, its just consumers vs companies. The desktop discreet gpu market is a duopoly, after all.


----------



## noiiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...I'm sure they'll get over it...at rog.asus.com, they refer to the R9 290X reference, then give a big hint about their 'non-reference' following shortly..which is good news as it means AMD did not restrict OEMs...MSI R9 290X Lightning anyone ?


PLEASE LET THE THUNDER STRUCK!


----------



## $ilent

Where are people reading the 290X preorder is BF4 premium? Ive preordered a 290x and it just says comes with normal BF4?


----------



## jvolkman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Where are people reading the 290X preorder is BF4 premium? Ive preordered a 290x and it just says comes with normal BF4?


From Webhallen.com. It's possible that Premium is special to the bundle offered that.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Where are people reading the 290X preorder is BF4 premium? Ive preordered a 290x and it just says comes with normal BF4?


Where did you pre order and what was the price?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Yep, that is b/c we have duopoly and prices will continue to rise generation after generation. Whoever comes up first with 20nm generation will price it higher than current GPU's. Then the 2nd company will price their lineup according to competition and we will soon have 1k$ for top of the line.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yep, that is b/c we have duopoly and prices will continue to rise generation after generation. Whoever comes up first with 20nm generation will price it higher than current GPU's. Then the 2nd company will price their lineup according to competition and we will soon have 1k$ for top of the line.


Then after a year or two of shenanigans the feds step in and everyone gets a slap on the wrist.


----------



## Baghi

The source has updated ROP information, it's *64* guys!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baghi*
> 
> The source has updated ROP information, it's *64* guys!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series

Who knows. Maybe all rumors we saw before aren't true. We'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yep, that is b/c we have duopoly and prices will continue to rise generation after generation. Whoever comes up first with 20nm generation will price it higher than current GPU's. Then the 2nd company will price their lineup according to competition and we will soon have 1k$ for top of the line.


Yeah, as much as i love computers i'm finally starting to see a reason to switch to consoles if that's the case. 1000 Euro graphic card? That's the amount of money i can spend on a weeks worth summer vacation, food/drinks all inclusive, too!

Heck, i used to enjoy spending 500~600 euros on a graphic card, cause i felt like i'm getting something nice. Now it feels like i'm getting ripped off just because i'd like top notch hardware.

I've never minded paying 1000~1200 for a GOOD pc. But near 1000 for a graphic card itself. No thanks!


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Yeah, as much as i love computers i'm finally starting to see a reason to switch to consoles if that's the case. 1000 Euro graphic card? That would give me a summer vacation in a 4~5 star hotel with all inclusive.
> 
> I've never minded paying 1000~1200 for a GOOD pc. But near 1000 for a graphic card itself. No thanks!


nobody said you have to get $1000 gpu. There' perfectly fine $250 GPUs that's 25-30% slower than those, for 1/4 the price.

Then again, there's the GTX 780 for $650, which is 20% better than 7970 Ghz edition, but with Mantle, the gap is closed up very soon.

not worth switching to consoles... never was for me.

And there's always Ebay deals to get similar GPUs for $250 lower price than retail prices, if you know what you're doing.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> It will stomp the the 780 clock for clock with a smaller die.
> It has superior memory bandwidth while not really that big a deal will will help with resolution scaling.


I believe if you lock a GK110-300 / 400 / 290X @ 1150 core then run benches, it would turn out like the following.

GK110-400
290X
GK110-300

Excited about getting my hands on a card to test against nVidias. Do a clock for clock then a shoot out with max clocks for each card.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, or can't seem or want to understand it. It's all good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, when the 7990 card dropped, it didn't have the frame pacing drivers it has today, AMD was forced to price drop because they were likely not selling at the asking price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure what this debate is about, you've solidified my point that AMD ALWAYS prices their products based on their performance, when they are cheaper, there's a reason why.


That's not an entirely valid point about the 7990 to be honest... it's performance improved with the frame pacing drivers and will improve more with the next patch to be released shortly, particularly in higher resolutions and multiple screen displays. Yet it's price really didn't begin to drop until the last 90 or so days as they began hyping up the launch for the 290x. See the price graph at the bottom of the linked paged below.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Zbc9


----------



## pcoutu17

Hmmm should I stick with my 7990 (no coil whine!), trade it out for a 780 sc acx to sli later, or sell it to pick up a 290x and xfire later...decisions, decisions


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcoutu17*
> 
> Hmmm should I stick with my 7990 (no coil whine!), trade it out for a 780 sc acx to sli later, or sell it to pick up a 290x and xfire later...decisions, decisions


neither, 780 is a downgrade, 290x is a gamble, stick with that 7990 bad boy, after detailed reviews of the 290 then review again


----------



## Renairy

So they just confirmed the pricing and it is at ~$730 USD.
Everyone loses.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> So they just confirmed the pricing and it is at ~$730 USD.
> Everyone loses.


739 is hilarious.


----------



## Dart06

Where was this pricing confirmed?


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Where was this pricing confirmed?


You've been up for far too long









It was found in the source code of the Newegg website


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> So they just confirmed the pricing and it is at ~$730 USD.
> Everyone loses.


How much do you want to bet that by Christmas/New Years they'll be down to $600 or below? People shouldn't be so eager to buy anything without seeing reviews first... that's called being an educated consumer. The smart people will not mind to wait a month or two, see multiple reviews, and make a more educated purchase, and most likely at a lower price. So by then you won't be able to get the BF4 edition... who fricking cares? I highly doubt the price of the stand alone cards will be ~$730, especially 30- 60 days after launch (Black Friday and all the other Christmas sales). $730 bundle pre-order price... that's just DICE and AMD taking the idiots that are too impatient to wait for some extra money.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Apparently $699 USD is the base price. They found this hidden in neweggs html code. Less than hour ago


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> You've been up for far too long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was found in the source code of the Newegg website


Ah I already knew about that. I still believe it's a placeholder and not the actual official price.

I didn't make it. Eventually I started taking naps between the 15 and 45 minute marker of the hour and then waking up and seeing if it updates on the hour. So far no. I'm almost fully awake again.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> In the same way as
> 
> 650Ti boost is faster than a 7850 or
> 660Ti is faster than a 7870 or
> 760 is faster than a 7950 or
> 680 is faster than a 7970 or
> 770 is as fast as a 7970GHz.
> 
> Yet we all know that for us on OCN those AMD cards are faster alternatives. Why? Because they can be OC'd further than the NV cards.
> 
> But no, that can't possibly be true for the Titan. ~10%+ faster than a 780 clock for clock means nothing. Stock is all that matters.
> 
> Meanwhile pretty much all Titan and 780 users on OCN are running custom bioses and modding their afterburner for more volts.
> 
> Just like with the 600 series vs. 7000 series the true comparison is max OC vs. max OC. Like it or not but the people here couldn't care less about stock Titan benches just like they don't care about stock 7970 benches either. As I said, if you want a card that'll beat a stock Titan at stock then buy this (link). Of course once you OC it wont hold a candle to the Titan.
> 
> We do not even know the stock clocks for the 290X, let alone the OCing potential, all leaks so far have indicated that the 1050MHz setting always used in these benches comes in the form of a secondary bios on the card. Similar to the 6990 that had an OC'd bios that allowed AMD to claim it was faster than a 590 at stock while they did not have to certify the cards for those clock speeds.
> 
> So wait for reviews and especially user reports about OCing before making statements about actual performance?


Twist it anyway you want yo Altar. An over locked 780 still beats a stock titan for $300 cheaper.

That's a fact.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Ah I already knew about that. I still believe it's a placeholder and not the actual official price.
> 
> I didn't make it. Eventually I started taking naps between the 15 and 45 minute marker of the hour and then waking up and seeing if it updates on the hour. So far no. I'm almost fully awake again.


30 minute naps, commitment


----------



## hatlesschimp

Its just a gpu lol. Get some sleep and try tomorrow.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 30 minute naps, commitment


I'm liking that Mega Blastoise GIF.

Also had I known that the preorder still wouldn't have been up, I definitely would have got a full nights' rest. I'm almost fully rested again right now, so it's not that big of a deal.


----------



## Stay Puft

So there's actually people in this thread that will preorder at 739?







Talk about dedication


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> So there's actually people in this thread that will preorder at 739?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about dedication


Some of us don't have budgets to stick to all of the time. I get some wiggle room and this month I'm going to pool a little bit of my extra money this way. I consider it an early birthday present to myself.

I might even pick up a second one before the year ends, we shall see.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> So there's actually people in this thread that will preorder at 739?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about dedication


I will not encourage these prices. So no 290x for me. When it reaches $499 sure.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I'm liking that Mega Blastoise GIF.
> 
> Also had I known that the preorder still wouldn't have been up, I definitely would have got a full nights' rest. I'm almost fully rested again right now, so it's not that big of a deal.


As soon as I saw the Mega Blastoise GIF on this page, I knew it was OCN avatar worthy.

You're a better man than me, I don't move a leg for less than 8hrs uninterrupted per night haha


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Some of us don't have budgets to stick to all of the time. I get some wiggle room and this month I'm going to pool a little bit of my extra money this way. I consider it an early birthday present to myself.
> 
> I might even pick up a second one before the year ends, we shall see.


I dont have a budget either







but 739 dollars is ludicrous especially without proper reviews. Its also a downgrade from 670's in SLI


----------



## Rtrbtn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Well, for $30 less than the 290x you can buy a classified 780. If you plan on overclocking, most classifieds will yield around 1200+mhz on the core and now that they are shipping with samsung memory about +500 on the memory. This should bring the performance of the card above that of the titan and depending what games you are planning on playing, well above the 290x. If the 290x can't OC or if it doesn't scale well to OC'ing for some reason, then it will (most likely) end up performing worse than a 780 overclocked.
> 
> I'm buying my cards based on a performance basis (not picking a side, AMD or nVidia) with a little bit of lean depending on price. If the cards operate just the same and one is cheaper, the decision is clear


The R290X will most likely be faster than a 780, and will boost from 800mhz to 1000mhz. Who know's how well it will manually overclock though.


----------



## jojoenglish85

Where has it been confirmed on definite pricing? I still haven't seen the official prices yet, not even on newegg


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I dont have a budget either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but 739 dollars is ludicrous especially without proper reviews. Its also a *downgrade from 670's in SLI*


Sure but my old SLI 670s were starting to not cut it for 120hz gaming (I like my eye candy) so I got rid of the first one at a decent time.

CFX 290X will for all intents and purposes laugh at SLI 670s.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jojoenglish85*
> 
> Where has it been confirmed on definite pricing? I still haven't seen the official prices yet, not even on newegg


Newegg has the price hidden but google can sniff it out


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I dont have a budget either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but 739 dollars is ludicrous especially without proper reviews. Its also a downgrade from 670's in SLI


So the released price is $739? Or is this the bundle price?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> So the released price is $739? Or is this the bundle price?


Bundle price is 729, Card alone is 699


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> So the released price is $739? Or is this the bundle price?


The bundle, but once again, the price isn't yet official.


----------



## dir_d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> So the released price is $739? Or is this the bundle price?


Preorder bundle


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Where did you pre order and what was the price?


I paid £100 to reserve a 290X from overclockers.co.uk BF4 edition.

Anyone seen this?

http://www.techpowerup.com/191909/radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com.html

Newegg forgot to hide the price in their HTML coding, its $730.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> I paid £100 to reserve a 290X from overclockers.co.uk BF4 edition.
> 
> Anyone seen this?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191909/radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com.html
> 
> Newegg forgot to hide the price in their HTML coding, its $730.


Google sniffed out the price


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Bundle price is 729, Card alone is 699


Are there any official benchmarks out yet? I'm guessing based off price it sits somewhere in between the 780 and Titan. I bet a lot of Amd fans are pissed. Hype had this thing performing on par with Titan at 599. I would expect a lower price considering their last flagship is almost 2 years old and Titan has been out for 8 month's and the 780 for awhile also. Kinda disappointing if true.


----------



## jojoenglish85

If the price is $699 then im going to stick with nvidia and grab a 780.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jojoenglish85*
> 
> If the price is $699 then im going to stick with nvidia and grab a 780.


Don't want to wait for actual reviews?


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jojoenglish85*
> 
> If the price is $699 then im going to stick with nvidia and grab a 780.


I'd wait for reviews first. If the 290x trounces the 780 we might get a price drop from Nvidia. I've been contemplating a pair of 780 Lightnings for awhile.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Primary emphasis is gaming for a gpu right? Amd has fallen short many times. They're resale value says it all. I've given them many opportunities but it hasn't worked out with me in the end. Even at ~6 months old, I bought two 7970s for $300 each and saw a few non-reference go for less then $300. I didn't bother with the 680 4gb as those were commanding $450+. 680 2gb were going for ~$350-400. Though the first 7970 had massive coil whine and the second one i got tired of the screen tearing issue I just returned the coil whine and sold the second one. Drivers were all over the place as usual. But a well priced 4-way was very tempting until the frustrations were too great. I actually went w/ quad 580 3gbs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> As I've said, they have several great things about them and the specs are great too but there's lots of bad things. Overall, Nvidia has provided a more sorted product and their resale value says it all.
> 
> edit: again, waiting on Hawaii to pass judgment on that one


No, the resale value is based on _perceived_ quality. I give props to Nvidia for their marketing, and establishing a large fanbase that AMD cannot come close to.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Don't want to wait for actual reviews?


That would be illogical.

I like the irony of some users here. They say the 290x is over priced when the official price is not known (even though we can guess at what it is pretty well) and then they say that people are dumb for preordering it without knowing specs and benches (even though we can guess at what we should expect the minimum performance to be) and then they use the 699$ price to justify it when the price isn't official. Just speculated.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Don't want to wait for actual reviews?


What reviews?
780 performance can be judged by real world performance posted in benchmark threads here, and the 290x .....if this was a real super star, AMD would not be hiding it under covers and trying to pre sell


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I'd wait for reviews first. If the 290x trounces the 780 we might get a price drop from Nvidia. I've been contemplating a pair of 780 Lightnings for awhile.


Here's the wildcard for me. The 290X's overclock ability. 780's overclock like mad with a custom bios. If the 290X's overclock ability sucks the edge goes to the 780.

While im not happy about the 290X's price i'll probably end up going through with them anyway even tho 699 is a complete freaking ripoff only because you cant quad the 780 or 770 Ti


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I'd wait for reviews first. If the 290x trounces the 780 we might get a price drop from Nvidia. I've been contemplating a pair of 780 Lightnings for awhile.


780 classys are better cards for pretty much everything. Especially since they now ship with sammy memory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> What reviews?
> 780 performance can be judged by real world performance posted in benchmark threads here, and the 290x .....if this was a real super star, AMD would not be hiding it under covers and trying to pre sell


We don't know if those benches are:

1) real
2) with secondary or primary bios
3) using some sort of new boost tech
4) in any way representative of performance after OCing.


----------



## xnorex

Still? I don't understand why they are waiting so long!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> I paid £100 to reserve a 290X from overclockers.co.uk BF4 edition.
> 
> Anyone seen this?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191909/radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com.html
> 
> Newegg forgot to hide the price in their HTML coding, its $730.


So it is only OCUK to pre order from in the UK


----------



## TrevBlu19

I still don't get the WIKIPEDIA crap 260x, 280x, 290x? hawaii?? wut?


----------



## kot0005

Also you can buy the EVGA classi for $599 with the 15% of promo code... So $730 290X is really not a bang for buck card.


----------



## Shiveron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrevBlu19*
> 
> I still don't get the WIKIPEDIA crap 260x, 280x, 290x? hawaii?? wut?


wikip.... what? That's the names of the cards bro. The numbers indicate the tier of card; 260 being the lowest, 290 the highest. They go up each generation of new cards. So next gen will be 360, 380, 390 etc. Hawaii is the codename for the series in AMD speak.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Also you can buy the EVGA classi for $599 with the 15% of promo code... So $730 290X is really not a bang for buck card.


What 15% promo code?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> What 15% promo code?


yeah.. LINK please


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> yeah.. LINK please


That link would be amazing lol.


----------



## kot0005

https://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=videocardz&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBAU485AU485&q=evga+graphics+cards+15%25+discount&gs_l=hp..6.41l1037.0.0.1.363064...........0.m6g2Wi_rrvM

I would be all over classi IF i was in the US now.


----------



## anticommon

Apparently they sent me a code to my email. Nice!

Now this decision is almost a no brainer... $599.99 shipped for a 780 Classy + batman, or $730 for a R9 290X + BF4....

Well, maybe it's not that much of a no brainer. Dang this is a hard decision.

So the code expires in a week, so I guess that gives a bit of time to wait and see if there are any more leaks of the 290X's capability and pricing.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Apparently they sent me a code to my email. Nice!
> 
> Now this decision is almost a no brainer... $599.99 shipped for a 780 Classy, or $730 for a R9 290X + BF4....
> 
> Well, maybe it's not that much of a no brainer. Dang this is a hard decision.


EK has a waterblock ready for the classi by next week too.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> EK has a waterblock ready for the classi by next week too.


But the real question is: Are most classies held back because of the chip? Or because they get too hot?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> But the real question is: Are most classies held back because of the chip? Or because they get too hot?


Both.

However the main point is that they're not held back by the VRM of the card. You can put 1.4v through them and run the thing in the 1500MHz range for better cards. However at that point it's going to also dump 500W+ to your case.

There are a bunch of people running theirs on water at 1400mhz+ for 24/7. And that's with the crappier swiftec block.

And this is exactly the problem of the 290X. It'll have to go against 780s that OC to the moon if it actually launches at $700 or so.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Apparently they sent me a code to my email. Nice!
> 
> Now this decision is almost a no brainer... $599.99 shipped for a 780 Classy + batman, or $730 for a R9 290X + BF4....
> 
> Well, maybe it's not that much of a no brainer. Dang this is a hard decision.
> 
> So the code expires in a week, so I guess that gives a bit of time to wait and see if there are any more leaks of the 290X's capability and pricing.


brother just wait until the 290x is finally released, u will regret buying a gtx780 and much more with all the stuff comming from AMD.

the leak benchmark dictated the 290x is already faster than a Titan, and u will get a bump in performance with Mantle later on... so defenely, me being u i wont buy a nvidia card from now...

and for those saying is not a good buy at that price... why people buy titans for $1050??
AMD has to play to low price plan always? guess what? things are gonna change.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> brother just wait until the 290x is finally released, u will regret buying a gtx780 and much more with all the stuff comming from AMD.
> 
> the leak benchmark dictated the 290x is already faster than a Titan, and u will get a bump in performance with Mantle later on... so defenely, me being u i wont buy a nvidia card from now...
> 
> and for those saying is not a good buy at that price... why people buy titans for $1050??
> AMD has to play to low price plan always? guess what? since are gonna change.


290X is 699+, 780 Classified is 599 with code. 290X isnt worth the extra 100 dollars


----------



## kot0005

I almost ordered a 780 classi few minutes ago when I started hearing about the discount code only to figure that they wont accept my card

the 15% code is valid till oct 10th

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 290X is 699+ *for reference pcb*, 780 Classified is 599 with code for *custom pcb*. 290X isnt worth the extra 100 dollars


fixed for you


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 290X is 699+, 780 Classified is 599 with code. 290X isnt worth the extra 100 dollars


say that to people who have bought titans already... the 290x is being faster than the 780 a lot... and it doesnt worth the extra 100 lol lol lol lol lol lol


----------



## FtW 420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Both.
> 
> However the main point is that they're not held back by the VRM of the card. You can put 1.4v through them and run the thing in the 1500MHz range for better cards. However at that point it's going to also dump 500W+ to your case.
> 
> There are a bunch of people running theirs on water at 1400mhz+ for 24/7. And that's with the crappier swiftec block.
> 
> And this is exactly the problem of the 290X. It'll have to go against 780s that OC to the moon if it actually launches at $700 or so.


Much depends on how the 290x overclocks, I'm trying to wait patiently for the things to get into more rigs & overclocked to see how they really do.

C'mon NDA, just expire already...


----------



## TrevBlu19

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiveron*
> 
> wikip.... what? That's the names of the cards bro. The numbers indicate the tier of card; 260 being the lowest, 290 the highest. They go up each generation of new cards. So next gen will be 360, 380, 390 etc. Hawaii is the codename for the series in AMD speak.


I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series

260x HAWAII LE, 280x HAWAII PRO, and 290x HAWAII XT, 290XT HAWAII XT2 ?? ***?


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FtW 420*
> 
> Much depends on how the 290x overclocks, I'm trying to wait patiently for the things to get into more rigs & overclocked to see how they really do.
> 
> C'mon NDA, just expire already...


Agreed. Lift the damn NDA already lol. It can work in their favor if they do. We want concrete numbers, reviews and benchmarks.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrevBlu19*
> 
> I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series
> 
> 260x HAWAII LE, 280x HAWAII PRO, and 290x HAWAII XT, 290XT HAWAII XT2 ?? ***?


The editor must be living in a fantasy world lol.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> say that to people who have bought titans already... the 290x is being faster than the 780 a lot... and it doesnt worth the extra 100 lol lol lol lol lol lol


Please link me to official reviews and benchmarks showing a 290x beating a 780.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Both.
> 
> However the main point is that they're not held back by the VRM of the card. You can put 1.4v through them and run the thing in the 1500MHz range for better cards. However at that point it's going to also dump 500W+ to your case.
> 
> There are a bunch of people running theirs on water at 1400mhz+ for 24/7. And that's with the crappier swiftec block.
> 
> And this is exactly the problem of the 290X. It'll have to go against 780s that OC to the moon if it actually launches at $700 or so.


don't worry alatar ocn will have users with golden R9 290X cards with watercooling for an all out max OC comparison.







btw that price is not yet officially confirmed. also even the reviewers have not yet got pricing. so looks like we will get accurate pricing only close to launch day.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FtW 420*
> 
> Much depends on how the 290x overclocks, I'm trying to wait patiently for the things to get into more rigs & overclocked to see how they really do.
> 
> C'mon NDA, just expire already...


Obviously, however the likelihood of it getting even on par with Tahiti when it comes to clocks at a certain voltage is low. And that's not enough for it to match Titans and classys/lightnings.

Assuming the leaked performance numbers are true that is.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Please link me to official reviews and benchmarks showing a 290x beating a 780.


im at work my internet is limited to what i cant do...
but i saw it in a thread here on ocn... its basically a summary of performance
and the 290x is beating the titan already...

what i read from u is this, and im not a mentalist... u want a 290x but u want it dirp cheap
just to justify not getting a gtx780 because u are desperate with your money on pockets waiting to be waste...

ive been there and later on i regret playing the desperate guy... so just sit down relax until the card release and get it.


----------



## anticommon

The thing I don't think people are realizing enough is that a highly overclocked 780 should still beat a 290x with a mild ~100mhz overclock. The problem now is whether or not 290x scales well with overclocking (it should) and what kind of thermal headroom it will have. If the 290x can overclock to 1200mhz + I really wouldn't doubt it beating the classy with a high overclock. But then you have to ask what's the difference and is it worth $130?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> The thing I don't think people are realizing enough is that a highly overclocked 780 should still beat a 290x with a mild ~100mhz overclock. The problem now is whether or not 290x scales well with overclocking (it should) and what kind of thermal headroom it will have. If the 290x can overclock to 1200mhz + I really wouldn't doubt it beating the classy with a high overclock. But then you have to ask what's the difference and is it worth $130?


Mantle?
newer technology?
more memory?

at the end of the day the card will be faster due to potencial AMD fix and drivers.

on a side note i think it will not cost more than $650


----------



## raptor15sc

It's 2pm EST... AMD at their Hawaiian event: You can pre-order the R9 290X on October 3rd from *"select retailers."*
*"select retailers..."* _Translation_: A couple of Swedish stores and overclockers.co.uk (who are probably just doing their own program)
...And that's it.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's 2pm EST... AMD at their Hawaiian event: You can pre-order the R9 290X on October 3rd from *"select retailers."*
> *"select retailers..."* _Translation_: A couple of Swedish stores and overclockers.co.uk (who are probably just doing their own program)
> ...And that's it.


I feel you might be right lol.


----------



## kzone75

The price is right..


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's 2pm EST... AMD at their Hawaiian event: You can pre-order the R9 290X on October 3rd from *"select retailers."*
> *"select retailers..."* _Translation_: A couple of Swedish stores and overclockers.co.uk (who are probably just doing their own program)
> ...And that's it.


There is only 2 authorised vendors in the UK to sell the BF4 290X, OCUK being one of them


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> The price is right..


Haha nice.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> So they just confirmed the pricing and it is at ~$730 USD.
> Everyone loses.


Nope besides Limited and Pre order say anything to you at all?


----------



## jimreaper218

BF4 Premium is $130, so the card is $600.00. Isn't that what was expected?


----------



## Forceman

So Newegg finally wised up and took the price out of the HTML. now the cards just show up at the top of the results page instead of sorted by price. Last time I checked (about an hour ago) all the cards except the Sapphire were showing up at the 769 part of the listing, instead of the 729 part though. Wonder what that was about.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> BF4 Premium is $130, so the card is $600.00. Isn't that what was expected?












BF4 is included in the never say die reloaded or some stupid bundle amd is offering so the card isnt 600


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BF4 is included in the never say die reloaded or some stupid bundle amd is offering so the card isnt 600


It has never been confirmed that AMD will include BF4 in the bundle. People think that, but AMD's never said it.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Both.
> 
> However the main point is that they're not held back by the VRM of the card. You can put 1.4v through them and run the thing in the 1500MHz range for better cards. However at that point it's going to also dump 500W+ to your case.
> 
> There are a bunch of people running theirs on water at 1400mhz+ for 24/7. And that's with the crappier swiftec block.
> 
> And this is exactly the problem of the 290X. It'll have to go against 780s that OC to the moon if it actually launches at $700 or so.


None reference against a reference card doesn't seem exactly fair.
Interesting to see this thing come together whether Alatar loses his $10 bet or wins it the 290x will most likely be an amazing card.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> The price is right..


placeholders placeholders everywhere.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> It has never been confirmed that AMD will include BF4 in the bundle. People think that, but AMD's never said it.


http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2
Quote:


> FAQ #1: But it says "Battlefield 4 included," so this must be the costlier BF4 Edition?
> Ans: No. BF4 Edition is a different SKU, which includes BF4 Premium key. BF4 (standard edition) is set to be already part of a Never Settle bundle that R9 290 series owners will be eligible for.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> It's 2pm EST... AMD at their Hawaiian event: You can pre-order the R9 290X on October 3rd from *"select retailers."*
> *"select retailers..."* _Translation_: A couple of Swedish stores and overclockers.co.uk (who are probably just doing their own program)
> ...And that's it.


I thought select retailers meant Walmart, Target, etc.?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> I thought select retailers meant Walmart, Target, etc.?


Don't forget K-Mart.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> Never a shortage of internet D-bags...
> 
> Yeah, okay... so you're still getting the game and the card for $730. If I get a GTX780 and the game, I'm still out at least $730.


2nd post and already name calling. You'll fit in well here


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


So your evidence is a forum post? Color me unconvinced.

Why would AMD sell a BF4 edition of the card if every card is going to come with BF4 for free?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> So your evidence is a forum post? Color me unconvinced.
> 
> Why would AMD sell a BF4 edition of the card if every card is going to come with BF4 for free?


It's btarunr. I'm very inclined to believe him


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 2nd post and already name calling. You'll fit in well here


Off to a good positive start lol


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> Never a shortage of internet D-bags...
> 
> Yeah, okay... so you're still getting the game and the card for $730. If I get a GTX780 and the game, I'm still out at least $730.


While getting way less performance and more power consumption due the the huge die that is partialy locked down (not that many people care for power consumption over here)

What if there will be a 290XT model and a 295 model later on featuring early 20nm and this is just for those who demand the best while TSMC struggles ramping up the 20nm production.

A man can dream.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 2nd post and already name calling. You'll fit in well here


The no avatar lurker gang strikes again,


----------



## $ilent

Guys preorder it on overclockers.co.uk


----------



## Bal3Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Oh hell naw. HELL *NAW*. $1144?
> 
> AMD Will be so stupid to launch this for nearly $850 more than the R280X.
> 
> *edit* Honestly anything more than $600 is a no-no.


really so if rummors are true and it goes toe to toe with a titan it shouldnt be priced to match it if they are true i look for models to be priced 650-800 depending if they do any aftermarket overclocking.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Oh hell naw. HELL *NAW*. $1144?
> 
> AMD Will be so stupid to launch this for nearly $850 more than the R280X.
> 
> *edit* Honestly anything more than $600 is a no-no.
> 
> 
> 
> really so if rummors are true and it goes toe to toe with a titan it shouldnt be priced to match it if they are true i look for models to be priced 650-800 depending if they do any aftermarket overclocking.
Click to expand...

And we can tell who read nothing.

Newegg's source says $730 for the pre-order bundle.


----------



## $ilent

Is the preorder bundle some sort of special edition BF4? I thought it was normal BF4 but people are saying its BF4 and premium?


----------



## xnorex

Are they just trolling us now?! AMD just put this on their AMD Gaming Facebook page...
Quote:


> In celebration of the upcoming launches of two of the most important announcements in PC gaming this year, we've worked with EA to create the AMD Radeon R9 290X Battlefield 4 Limited Edition available, online for reservation starting today with select resellers and partners. There were only 8,000 of these made so make sure to add your name to the list before they're all gone! Recommended AMD Radeon R9 290X pricing, specs and performance will be unveiled in the coming weeks. We haven't released pricing and won't comment on pricing seen on some e-tail outlets.


It's like theyre gonna just keep saying this till Jan. and the card will still not be out!


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> Are they just trolling us now?! AMD just put this on their AMD Gaming Facebook page...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> In celebration of the upcoming launches of two of the most important announcements in PC gaming this year, we've worked with EA to create the AMD Radeon R9 290X Battlefield 4 Limited Edition available, online for reservation starting today with select resellers and partners. There were only 8,000 of these made so make sure to add your name to the list before they're all gone! Recommended AMD Radeon R9 290X pricing, specs and performance will be unveiled in the coming weeks. We haven't released pricing and won't comment on pricing seen on some e-tail outlets.
> 
> 
> 
> It's like theyre gonna just keep saying this till Jan. and the card will still not be out!
Click to expand...

So exactly what OverClockersUK did. You put in a deposit to put your name on the list and guarantee that you will get one if you want it. If it turns out you don't, you get the deposit back. If you do, they pay the remainder of the cost.

Not seeing the issue, sounds like a good way to simply call dibs.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> So exactly what OverClockersUK did. You put in a deposit to put your name on the list and guarantee that you will get one if you want it. If it turns out you don't, you get the deposit back. If you do, they pay the remainder of the cost.
> 
> Not seeing the issue, sounds like a good way to simply call dibs.


I have no issue with that system. I posted that because here in the US we don't have one site taking pre-orders. Yet they are making that announcement as if it is not 5pm already in New York. The day is basically over and still nothing! They have to know that some fans have been waiting up for a long time. They could at least say something about the issue.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> So exactly what OverClockersUK did. You put in a deposit to put your name on the list and guarantee that you will get one if you want it. If it turns out you don't, you get the deposit back. If you do, they pay the remainder of the cost.
> 
> Not seeing the issue, sounds like a good way to simply call dibs.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no issue with that system. I posted that because here in the US we don't have one site taking pre-orders. Yet they are making that announcement as if it is not 5pm already in New York. The day is basically over and still nothing! They have to know that some fans have been waiting up for a long time. They could at least say something about the issue.
Click to expand...

Why is AMD being blamed instead of NCIX, Amazon, Newegg, TigerDirect, Frys, and MicroCenter again?


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Why is AMD being blamed instead of NCIX, Amazon, Newegg, TigerDirect, Frys, and MicroCenter again?


I'm pretty sure if AMD wanted a midnight release, they could have had one. At the end of the day AMD dictates when the thing can be sold.


----------



## Forceman

That OCUK page kind of looks like something they could have just done themselves. The fact that you can't specify which card you are going to get makes it seem kind of informal. At least Newegg has individual cards listed. And I think people are blaming AMD because the whole preorder thing was their idea, and seems to be being managed terribly. It isn't even clear whether the BF4 bundle is the regular edition or includes premium. Not to mention the basics like price, specs, performance, etc.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> That OCUK page kind of looks like something they could have just done themselves. The fact that you can't specify which card you are going to get makes it seem kind of informal. At least Newegg has individual cards listed. And I think people are blaming AMD because the whole preorder thing was their idea, and seems to be being managed terribly. It isn't even clear whether the BF4 bundle is the regular edition or includes premium. Not to mention the basics like price, specs, performance, etc.


Worst case scenario my OCUK preorder deposit turns out I cant chose the manufacturer I want, maybe they could know me some money off?


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> That OCUK page kind of looks like something they could have just done themselves. The fact that you can't specify which card you are going to get makes it seem kind of informal. At least Newegg has individual cards listed. And I think people are blaming AMD because the whole preorder thing was their idea, and seems to be being managed terribly. It isn't even clear whether the BF4 bundle is the regular edition or includes premium. Not to mention the basics like price, specs, performance, etc.


^This, this whole pre-order situation is their baby! It's really unfair to have your fans in the dark like this. How hard would it be for them to send a twitter update or FB update that says... *hey we know pre-orders aren't up yet in NA but don't worry, It will be today.* or better yet... *"these are the sites to watch. "*but no... TERRIBLE PR


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Damn, I remember when I had a life. I haven't been out of my mother's basement in over 3 years. Please tell me, what have I missed in the outside world?


there's a world outside the basement?

blasphemy!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Worst case scenario my OCUK preorder deposit turns out *I cant chose the manufacturer I want*, maybe they could know me some money off?


What are the most reliable manufactures on AMD`s side? EVGA like, Sapphire maybe?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> What are the most reliable manufactures on AMD`s side? EVGA like, Sapphire maybe?


Sapphire's probably the best.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> What are the most reliable manufactures on AMD`s side? EVGA like, Sapphire maybe?


Im not sure, but im guessing OCUK will have MSI, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS. Just like newegg has. The question im asking is what if It comes to 15th october and they say ok this si the price chose your card, but bear in mind we are all out of MSI ones. Well I might turn around and say I wanted a MSi card and your product page promised me a 290X (and the opportunity to chose my brand).

If they are all out where would that leave me if I want a specific brand?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Sapphire's probably the best.


Thanks. I heard Sapphire has been partnered with AMD for a decade and is chosen to be one of the first retailers to feature R9 290x.

Asus is just way too expensive and their customer support is not the best out there..


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Sapphire's probably the best.


Or used to be, before Asus showed up. As someone else pointed out:

MSI: 1-year warranty
Sapphire: 2-year warranty
ASUS: 3-year warranty

Take from that what you will.

Man, today is excruciating. It's amateur hour over there at AMD. Frickin' idiot children running the show. The last two tweets have been insulting. Here's the latest gem:

AMD Radeon Graphics ‏@AMDRadeon
You can register to be auto-notified when our Limited Edition @Battlefield 4 R9 290X 4GB is available on @Newegg http://bit.ly/17xeMCO

YAY! auto-notified! That's even better than a preorder! THANK YOU AMD!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Im not sure, but im guessing OCUK will have MSI, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS. Just like newegg has. The question im asking is what if It comes to 15th october and they say ok this si the price chose your card, but bear in mind we are all out of MSI ones. Well I might turn around and say I wanted a MSi card and your product page promised me a 290X (and the opportunity to chose my brand).
> 
> If they are all out where would that leave me if I want a specific brand?


Try calling them, customer support has it in most cases.


----------



## $ilent

In fact I just found out OCUK has the following brands of 290X: Sapphire, HIS, ASUS, GIGABYTE and MSI cards.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> In fact I just found out OCUK has the following brands of 290X: Sapphire, HIS, ASUS, GIGABYTE and MSI cards.


Which one will you hunt for?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Or used to be, before Asus showed up. As someone else pointed out:
> 
> MSI: 1-year warranty
> Sapphire: 2-year warranty
> ASUS: 3-year warranty
> 
> Take from that what you will.
> 
> Man, today is excruciating. It's amateur hour over there at AMD. Frickin' idiot children running the show. The last two tweets have been insulting. Here's the latest gem:
> 
> AMD Radeon Graphics ‏@AMDRadeon
> You can register to be auto-notified when our Limited Edition @Battlefield 4 R9 290X 4GB is available on @Newegg http://bit.ly/17xeMCO
> 
> YAY! auto-notified! That's even better than a preorder! THANK YOU AMD!


Yeah, Asus might have the "best" warranty, but I've also heard stories recently that they have been trying hard to deny RMAs.. Their customer support is also pretty lackluster, in my opinion. Then again, their customer service isn't as bad as MSI's, so that's a plus.


----------



## Forceman

Has Newegg ever listed a "Coming Soon" card like this before? Normally there is nothing until the card is available for sale, then all the listings pop up at once. I can't ever remember a teaser listing like they have now.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Which one will you hunt for?


No idea which brand is better to be perfectly honest...probably Sapphire.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Or used to be, before Asus showed up. As someone else pointed out:
> 
> MSI: 1-year warranty
> Sapphire: 2-year warranty
> ASUS: 3-year warranty
> 
> Take from that what you will.
> 
> Man, today is excruciating. It's amateur hour over there at AMD. Frickin' idiot children running the show. The last two tweets have been insulting. Here's the latest gem:
> 
> AMD Radeon Graphics ‏@AMDRadeon
> You can register to be auto-notified when our Limited Edition @Battlefield 4 R9 290X 4GB is available on @Newegg http://bit.ly/17xeMCO
> 
> YAY! auto-notified! That's even better than a preorder! THANK YOU AMD!


It is insulting! It's 5pm(EST) on their "Celebration Day" and all they can say is... add yourself to an email list to be updated on when you can pre-order... With only like 7 hours left in the day. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if POs open up on the 4th lol.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> It is insulting! It's 5pm on their "Celebration Day" and all they can say is... add yourself to and email list to be updated on when you can pre-order... With only like 7 hours left in the day. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if POs open up on the 4th lol.


Is there going to be an 11th hour opening of the preorder on Newegg site and its going to be a mad rush of people to preorder you reckon?


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Is there going to be an 11th hour opening of the preorder on Newegg site and its going to be a mad rush of people to preorder you reckon?


I really don't see how they would benefit from that. It's not like they won't get rid of all pre-orders anyway.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Has Newegg ever listed a "Coming Soon" card like this before? Normally there is nothing until the card is available for sale, then all the listings pop up at once. I can't ever remember a teaser listing like they have now.


Not that i can recall. They had "Pre Order" for Titan


----------



## wermad

I got auto notify for some sapphires. I'm probably gonna go with TD once their price gauging goes down to msrp to avoid sales tax. Still waiting on reviews


----------



## $ilent

Well I have asked OCUK, but after searching online im getting the impression the 290X preorder includes BF4 premium. So to me thats BF4 (£45) and then premium (£40?), so in effect whatever the 290X price is I can roughly minus up to £100 for the BF4 games. So in that respect so long as it costs £500 ($800) or under, ill probably keep my preorder.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> No idea which brand is better to be perfectly honest...probably Sapphire.


Count me in for one as well.


----------



## sugarhell

It doesnt matter. Sapphire makes all the ref pcb for amd


----------



## Stay Puft

I have auto notify's on the Asus cards. I'm not happy about the price but screw it. Its only money. They better allow me to order 4 or i'm going to be peeved


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Is there going to be an 11th hour opening of the preorder on Newegg site and its going to be a mad rush of people to preorder you reckon?


Since the site was pressed pretty hard around 11:59 Pacific last night, I suspect the preorders to flush out before the email notifications even make it past Newegg's edge routers, once the cards pop. And, that's pretty much how the day is going anyway. This is an ugly, ugly launch.

Depending on the cost, that is-- I've got enough to buy based on preorder hype, but I don't have $750. My XFire 5850's will hold out just a little bit longer in that case. (Come on little guys, hang in there, just a few more weeks to retirement...)


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I have auto notify's on the Asus cards. I'm not happy about the price but screw it. Its only money. They better allow me to order 4 or i'm going to be peeved


I have in stock showing already !!!!!!!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I have in stock showing already !!!!!!!


Asus show up as auto notify for me


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Since the site was pressed pretty hard around 11:59 Pacific last night, I suspect the preorders to flush out before the email notifications even make it past Newegg's edge routers, once the cards pop. And, that's pretty much how the day is going anyway. This is an ugly, ugly launch.
> 
> Depending on the cost, that is-- I've got enough to buy based on preorder hype, but I don't have $750. My XFire 5850's will hold out just a little bit longer in that case. (Come on little guys, hang in there, just a few more weeks to retirement...)


So you think people will take all the preorders before the emails even get sent out?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I have in stock showing already !!!!!!!


None of the newegg cards say in stock for me.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Or used to be, before Asus showed up. As someone else pointed out:
> 
> MSI: 1-year warranty
> Sapphire: 2-year warranty
> ASUS: 3-year warranty
> 
> Take from that what you will.
> 
> Man, today is excruciating. It's amateur hour over there at AMD. Frickin' idiot children running the show. The last two tweets have been insulting. Here's the latest gem:
> 
> AMD Radeon Graphics ‏@AMDRadeon
> You can register to be auto-notified when our Limited Edition @Battlefield 4 R9 290X 4GB is available on @Newegg http://bit.ly/17xeMCO
> 
> YAY! auto-notified! That's even better than a preorder! THANK YOU AMD!


Err did MSI change their warranty cause... last I checked it was 3 year serial number based.

Graphics Card Product | 3 years | In accordance with original manufacturer's products serial number/barcode, graphics card products manufactured from Jan. 01 2010, are warranted for three years.


----------



## Arizonian

Wondering if the PCB's are all going to be black? I hate blue or red PCB.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> So you think people will take all the preorders before the emails even get sent out?


Just the limited edition. At the hyped $600 - $650? Yeah. At $750? No. But 8000 is a small number and Europe's had it for some 20+ hours now.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Err did MSI change their warranty cause... last I checked it was 3 year serial number based.
> 
> Graphics Card Product | 3 years | In accordance with original manufacturer's products serial number/barcode, graphics card products manufactured from Jan. 01 2010, are warranted for three years.


From Newegg's product page for the MSI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757

Warranty
Limited Warranty period (parts): 1 year
Limited Warranty period (labor): 1 year


----------



## Regent Square

It shows Asus cards in stock and when I refresh the page "coming soon" is back.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Wondering if the PCB's are all going to be black? I hate blue or red PCB.


All pictures released thus far show black PCB.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Just the limited edition. At the hyped $600 - $650? Yeah. At $750? No. But 8000 is a small number and Europe's had it for some 20+ hours now.


But europe will only have gotten so many 290X's to allocate. Last I spoke to the head at OCUK he said they had over 100 preorders and that was almost 10 hours ago.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Wondering if the PCB's are all going to be black? I hate blue or red PCB.


Order from Nvidia, they offer the best PCBs


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Last I spoke to the head at OCUK he said they had over 100 preorders and that was almost 10 hours ago.


Can you ask him again? So that we can get a current total of how many they've sold and the time at which he told you. I would appreciate it.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> Can you ask him again? So that we can get a current total of how many they've sold and the time at which he told you. I would appreciate it.


Its 11PM here now, so he wont be online in the forums. However when he said they had 100 preorders that was at 1:30PM, and the thread stated at 0745AM. Withing 30 minutes of the thread starting they had 30 preorders. So from 8AM to 1PM when I asked him they had another 70 preorders, averaging 14 an hour. So if that average continued they would have around 226 preorders by now.

But I did ask.

Also I forgot to mention but Gibbo said in his first post about the 290X that it could be priced anywhere between £400 - £650. Which is a little concerning as I would rather he said anything up to £650, as apposed to starting at £400.


----------



## bmt22033

I've gotta wonder what the point is in paying all the money to host a pre-launch marketing event in Hawaii (of all places!) to build hype around the card and then have your pre-order so disorganized? Surely this can't be how AMD was planning it?!?


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Its 11PM here now, so he wont be online in the forums. However when he said they had 100 preorders that was at 1:30PM, and the thread stated at 0745AM. Withing 30 minutes of the thread starting they had 30 preorders. So from 8AM to 1PM when I asked him they had another 70 preorders, averaging 14 an hour. So if that average continued they would have around 226 preorders by now.
> 
> But I did ask.
> 
> Also I forgot to mention but Gibbo said in his first post about the 290X that it could be priced anywhere between £400 - £650. Which is a little concerning as I would rather he said anything up to £650, as apposed to starting at £400.


Thank you.


----------



## TamaDrumz76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> I've gotta wonder what the point is in paying all the money to host a pre-launch marketing event in Hawaii (of all places!) to build hype around the card and then have your pre-order so disorganized? Surely this can't be how AMD was planning it?!?


Maybe they did it to provoke threads like this so they can see, to the very last second, what price they should offer it at. If people are guessing they'll see which price strikes best with most buyers. Just a guess, though I'm probably wrong.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> I've gotta wonder what the point is in paying all the money to host a pre-launch marketing event in Hawaii (of all places!) to build hype around the card and then have your pre-order so disorganized? Surely this can't be how AMD was planning it?!?


You obviously didnt see the actual Hawaii presentation did you? Disorganized is an understatement...they couldnt even get the damm youtube feed working and had to resort to using some other video hosting site in the end and bin youtube off completely. It was farcical.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> You obviously didnt see the actual Hawaii presentation did you? Disorganized is an understatement...they couldnt even get the damm youtube feed working and had to resort to using some other video hosting site in the end and bin youtube off completely. It was farcical.


I was watching it live. Their YouTube feed was working in the very beginning, and I heard that the reason it stopped working was because YouTube took it down because they were playing full songs of unlicensed music while they were waiting for the presentation to start.

But really they were playing the music for the people in the banquet hall, and it was just piped into the stream over their sound system which was connected to stream with like a "line-in" audio connection.


----------



## TamaDrumz76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> I was watching it live. Their YouTube feed was working in the very beginning, and I heard that the reason it stopped working was because YouTube took it down because they were playing full songs of unlicensed music while they were waiting for the presentation to start.


Yeah, I heard that as well.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> But really they were playing the music for the people in the banquet hall, and it was just piped into the stream over their sound system which was connected to stream with like a "line-in" audio connection.


Youtube is BAKA.


----------



## Arm3nian

My predictions for 11:59 still hold true, this one was AMD's fault. In other words, I win.


----------



## SpartaRoe

I'm pretty upset about this whole ordeal. It's a bit ridiculous that the Americas are being shafted.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> My predictions for 11:59 still hold true, this one was AMD's fault. In other words, I win.


I thought you were predicting 11:59pm on the 2nd


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> I thought you were predicting 11:59pm on the 2nd


I was, everything i've seen so far that is supposed to be released that day releases at 11:59, 1 min before the 3rd. AMD just screwed up.

In other words, if a product doesn't come 11:59, there is something wrong


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> My predictions for 11:59 still hold true, this one was AMD's fault. In other words, I win.












I've never died once in BF3. I just get lagged or the other dude is hacking.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> Batman has a decent story, but bf3's story wasnt horrible either, however batman has really bad controls and is just a console port, while battlefield atleast feels like a good game even though its not what bf2 was all about.


Thank you. Now watch him being quiet like a rat.


----------



## szeged

Yawn, the old go to school hehe hurhur comeback. I can counter with a comeback you probably use a lot in your 5th grade class..

Your mom. Ha got you good.

Bf3 still sucked imo, batman wasn't the best either, but out of the two if someone said I could have one for free I would take batman every time. Now go to sleep before your mom finds out and grounds you.


----------



## Pheozero

Anyways, is AMD still being tight-lipped on the R9-290? Depending on how much it it, I might get that or another 7950.


----------



## kot0005

hmmm:

https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/385925688278011904

Quote:


> Australia! My team there just called, preorders will be live in 2 hours from now for 290X


----------



## fleetfeather

S
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> hmmm:
> 
> https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/385925688278011904


Shut the front door, Who even has stock in AU??

WAT. EBGAMES?!?!?!?!?


----------



## $ilent

Get ready the newegg gates will soon be open!!!!


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Get ready the newegg gates will soon be open!!!!


Kewl.

Btw, so luv your avatar


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Get ready the newegg gates will soon be open!!!!


How do you know??


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Kewl.
> 
> Btw, so luv your avatar


Thanks heh I love simpsons its one of my fav episodes that one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> How do you know??


Im just guessing since Aus pre orders are coming online too. Surely the US preorders will be available soon...


----------



## raptor15sc

"BF4 Edition *which has a BF4 Premium key*"
Today from AnandTech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7388/r9290x-preordering-begins-today

Earlier in this thread, people were saying it didn't come with Premium. Not me.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> "BF4 Edition *which has a BF4 Premium key*"
> Today from AnandTech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7388/r9290x-preordering-begins-today
> 
> Earlier in this thread, people were saying it didn't come with Premium. Not me.


And if you look you can find three other websites that say it only has a standard edition key. Which makes it even more irresponsible of AMD to not specify exactly what you are getting with the preorder.

Edit: and I'm not saying it is or isn't Premium, just that it's crazy that on the day of the preorder (well, supposedly the day of the preorder) no one knows for sure because AMD hasn't made a statement about it.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> "BF4 Edition *which has a BF4 Premium key*"
> Today from AnandTech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7388/r9290x-preordering-begins-today
> 
> Earlier in this thread, people were saying it didn't come with Premium. Not me.


I like this because it means im willing to spend more on the 290x since it saves me buying bf4 and then premium.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> I like this because it means im willing to spend more on the 290x since it saves me buying bf4 and then *premium*.


Wow, what a waste of money. I thought British differed..


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Sarcasm- that is how u call a failed personal offence, okey..
> 
> battlefield at least involves some tactics to actually get a good in game score unlike batman.
> 
> You talking in school kid`s manner who is trying to make me look "disadvantageous" compared to u. Man, please bring more of your "thoughtful ideas", they are adorable. But hey, u are doing fine for a what, 10-11 grader?!


sorry if you mistake sarcasm for personal insults, i have no reason to personally attack you, youre just another person on the forums who thinks everyone cares so much about what you say so everything is a personal attack on you. sorry youre not that important.

i have no idea what youre tyring to say in the second sentence maybe you should re learn english and then retype that, or have you not learned proper english in 3rd grade yet.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> *sorry if you mistake sarcasm for personal insults,* i have no reason to personally attack you, youre just another person on the forums who thinks everyone cares so much about what you say so everything is a personal attack on you. sorry youre not that important.
> 
> i have no idea what youre tyring to say in the second sentence maybe you should re learn english and then retype that, or have you not learned proper english in *3rd grade yet*.


IE with bugs as usual. Re read it again(hopefully u know the basics), I corrected it.

Sarcasm is an insult up to a certain degree, but you had not been taught it yet., which is fine









Also guys, we have a "little" gentleman here







so please treat him well as he is a bit aggressive sometimes as all the teens are.

Oh no, dear, I don't think I am a center of this world- it is a response to your 1 sentence.


----------



## szeged

clearly ive struck a nerve with you and it offended you to the point of blind anger thus result in you thinking im still in school, sorry not everyone got held back in school, some of us have real big boy jobs, you might get one some day.

anyways, im bored with this petty arguing so lets both get back on topic and wait for the 290x to finally show up for pre order.

youll probably continue to post anger fueled responses but i wont be reading/responding to your posts anymore unless theyre on topic.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> clearly ive struck a nerve with you and it offended you to the point of blind anger thus result in you thinking im still in school, sorry not everyone got held back in school, some of us have real big boy jobs, you might get one some day.
> 
> anyways, im bored with this petty arguing so lets both get back on topic and wait for the 290x to finally show up for pre order.
> 
> youll probably continue to post anger fueled responses but *i wont be reading/responding to your posts anymore unless theyre on topic.*


good choice.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> clearly ive struck a nerve with you and it offended you to the point of blind anger thus result in you thinking im still in school, sorry not everyone got held back in school, some of us have real big boy jobs, you might get one some day.
> 
> anyways, im bored with this petty arguing so lets both get back on topic and wait for the 290x to finally show up for pre order.
> 
> youll probably continue to post anger fueled responses but i wont be reading/responding to your posts anymore unless theyre on topic.


Well, sorry for (maybe)misinterpreting u with a teen, but u indeed sounded like this type.

About a job, boy, could`t u thought of something else to humble me; sorry for this personal example but my monthly income allows to buy well over 10x Titans(in your language) with included living needs spending's, which u "hopefully" know is not the cheapest thing in the world.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> good choice.


Thanks for acknowledging BF3 as a winner


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Well, sorry for (maybe)misinterpreting u with a teen, but u indeed sounded like this type.
> 
> About a job, boy, could`t u thought of something else to humble me; sorry for this personal example but my monthly income allows to buy well over 10x Titans(in your language) with included living needs spending's, which u "hopefully" know is not the cheapest thing in the world.


nope, 23 with a full time job that lets me buy whatever i want when i want and have enough left over to live a good life







and by the sounds of it you are in the same boat, which is good, being poor doesnt sound fun.

anyways, lets put this silly argument behind us and get back to the star of the show, the 290x.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> nope, 23 with a full time job that lets me buy whatever i want when i want and have enough left over to live a good life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and by the sounds of it you are in the same boat, which is good, being poor doesnt sound fun.
> 
> anyways, lets put this silly argument behind us and get back to the star of the show, the 290x.


I am 22









Lets come back on topic now


----------



## Regent Square

Hopefully it will cost close to 1000$, I really need to be amongst the "best"


----------



## infranoia

This thread needs more signal to noise. Since it's dissolved into spittle and cheetos around here, let me try.

Ariel Ruff ‏@910Norex
@amd_roy @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg What about non-developers looking for the card? NA is still being shafted lol.

[email protected] ‏@amd_roy
@910Norex @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg Tiger online tomorrow. Where else?

Note that Roy tweeted that to Newegg. I wonder if there's some retailer friction going on behind the scenes.


----------



## szeged

hopefully all gpu prices drop back down to $500ish range for flagship cards, nvidia screwed the pooch with the titans price, atleast the 780 offered titan like performance for more price minded people.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> This thread needs more signal to noise. Since it's dissolved into spittle and cheetos around here, let me try.
> 
> Ariel Ruff ‏@910Norex
> @amd_roy @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg What about non-developers looking for the card? NA is still being shafted lol.
> 
> [email protected] ‏@amd_roy
> @910Norex @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg Tiger online tomorrow. Where else?
> 
> Note that Roy tweeted that to Newegg. I wonder if there's some retailer friction going on behind the scenes.


Not sure what he meant by "online tomorrow"


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> This thread needs more signal to noise. Since it's dissolved into spittle and cheetos around here, let me try.
> 
> Ariel Ruff ‏@910Norex
> @amd_roy @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg What about non-developers looking for the card? NA is still being shafted lol.
> 
> [email protected] ‏@amd_roy
> @910Norex @IncrediRoe @AMDRadeon @Newegg Tiger online tomorrow. Where else?
> 
> Note that Roy tweeted that to Newegg. I wonder if there's some retailer friction going on behind the scenes.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what he meant by "online tomorrow"
Click to expand...

STOP THAT!

kudos at the attempt of trying to find some factual information but using tweets?

what is this Yahoo! OMG! ??


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> Not sure what he meant by "online tomorrow"


Well, he sent that just tonight. Clearly he means that the preorder has been a cluster and it's pushed to tomorrow (the 4th), and only through Tigerdirect. With a veiled poke at Newegg for some reason.

I mean, how else to interpret that tweet?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> STOP THAT!
> 
> kudos at the attempt of trying to find some factual information but using tweets?
> 
> what is this Yahoo! OMG! ??


LOL! When no other information is available, we're left picking through the sewer for scraps.


----------



## szeged

i guess they had whoever organized their gpu 14 event organize the pre order also lol


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> LOL! When no other information is available, we're left picking through the sewer for scraps.


you're fine







to be honest i've used tweets here myself when discussing opinions and i really just wanted to use the line:
Quote:


> what is this Yahoo! OMG! ??


----------



## fleetfeather

For those in AU:

I hope Roy's tweet for "availalbe in Australia" doesn't end here...

http://umart.com.au/newindex2.phtml?bid=7

All we got was a link to the 404 website!? haha..


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i guess they had whoever organized their gpu 14 event organize the pre order also lol


Seems quite valid.


----------



## Testier

Now, the main part I am unhappy about is not the price, more the fact AMD lets people pre order WITHOUT releasing the benchmark. That is suspicious, they might have something to hide.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> When no other information is available,


Even the "information" of some tech "journalists" is usually completely trash. e.g. that Swedish site they are quoting has explicitly underneath it, in bold text, and in more than one lines "the price *will* change".


----------



## infranoia

http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order

It looks like the little green button labeled "pre-order" actually works on Australian websites. Fancy that.

So Europe gets it, Australia gets it, and the black hole of suck that is North America gets the shaft.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Now, the main part I am unhappy about is not the price, more the fact AMD lets people pre order WITHOUT releasing the benchmark. That is suspicious, they might have something to hide.


So you read game reviews before pre-ordering?

All those people who pre-ordered next-gen consoles have proof they work well and have no issues?

I'm beginning to think people don't understand how pre-orders work around here...


----------



## wvjeepguy81

Maybe they're waiting til 12am Pacific time instead of Eastern.

I was refreshing newegg every couple of hours at work today, not sure why really. I currently have an AMD a10-6800k in crossfire with a 7750 and not sure that either my cpu or mobo would support this beast to begin with. Well, I use the term "beast" very loosely since there are no benchmarks.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order
> 
> It looks like the little green button labeled "pre-order" actually works on Australian websites. Fancy that.
> 
> -snip-


Price still unknown though. Seems AMD did not finalize pricing with their vendors or they don't want a fiasco like last time with price gouging on release date and trying to iron out some vendor agreements. If we remember 7970 came out priced much higher than AMD had originally wanted. Guessing performance from specs is one thing but I've got to know a solid price before I commit to a purchase at the very least.

Well it's felt like a real waste of time since last night till now smashing refresh. Smartphone attached to hand when I stepped away from computer all day. Was going to order two right off the bat for crossfire. Changed mind to just one. See how it goes. Lost some faith now getting a bad mojo vibe from all this.

I've stepped down from a 120 Hz 1080p TN to a 60 Hz 1440p AH-IPS panel, so I don't mind single card performance even if I have to turn down some game settings.

Haven't had an AMD card for three years now but finding myself in a familiar place waiting for something promised but not delivered.

Trying to remain hopeful for a new GPU to play with. Well back to refreshing.


----------



## infranoia

From the horse's mouth just now:

[email protected] ‏@amd_roy
N.America! Newegg will be live tomorrow with the BF4 R9 290X preorder. You can sign up NOW for alert&#8230; @AMDRadeon

[email protected] ‏@amd_roy
@AMDRadeon apologies Newegg and Tiger are a little late&#8230;

So there you go... we're back to camping out for 11:59 again.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> So you read game reviews before pre-ordering?
> 
> All those people who pre-ordered next-gen consoles have proof they work well and have no issues?
> 
> I'm beginning to think people don't understand how pre-orders work around here...


Pre ordering a game is much different than pre ordering a gpu. In the game's case, you get much clearer informations before buying.(Gameplay trailers, or game demos)


----------



## Dart06

I've been at work, what did I miss? I see it hasn't been stocked on Newegg yet. Anyone have a timeframe that AMD maybe mentioned?


----------



## szeged

lol this pre order is getting worse and worse, first its late, now cancellation fees. amd stahp


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I've been at work, what did I miss? I see it hasn't been stocked on Newegg yet. Anyone have a timeframe that AMD maybe mentioned?


Just two posts above you.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1430935/vc-amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-for-preorder/720#post_20919619


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> So you read game reviews before pre-ordering?
> 
> All those people who pre-ordered next-gen consoles have proof they work well and have no issues?
> 
> I'm beginning to think people don't understand how pre-orders work around here...
> 
> 
> 
> Pre ordering a game is much different than pre ordering a gpu. In the game's case, you get much clearer informations before buying.(Gameplay trailers, or game demos)
Click to expand...

And with a GPU you get hardware specifications.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> And with a GPU you get hardware specifications.


We don't have those for the 290X....

Only rumored ones, no official specs at all.


----------



## raghu78

http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order

*"Note: Cancellations incur 25% processing and admin fees on deposit amount"*

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-015-AM&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1752

*" If you are unhappy with the launch pricing or have changed your mind, your full £99 DEPOSIT shall be refunded at your request."*

ocuk says no charges and full refund. centrecom says 25% processing and admin fee on $200 deposit. thats a $50 loss.

So they open pre-orders without performance and pricing details. And there is no consistency on refund if a buyer chooses to cancel the pre-order. different retailers are having different policy on cancellation. this is a basically AMD's Marketing and sales at its worst. Only AMD can come up with such genuine ways to screw up a good product launch.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> And with a GPU you get hardware specifications.


I would argue you can infer less from hardware information compare to gameplay trailer. Considering the possible changes in architecture, just the hardware specs do not really tell you much. Unless you have a same die to compare with. In this case about the R9 290X, we do not have a complete hardware spec. Is it 44 ROPs or 64 ROPs?


----------



## szeged

i bet amd spent more money on r&d on how to screw up a new product launch than they did on the actual product.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i bet amd spent more money on r&d on how to screw up a new product launch than they did on the actual product.


exactly







why go through all this pre-order crap. just have product on retail shelves at good pricing on launch day. when reviews are up and positive the market will flock to it. this looks to be a money grab exercise. can't blame them too. Nvidia has proved there are a lot of people with more money than common sense.


----------



## HolyDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> ocuk says no charges and full refund. centrecom says 25% processing and admin fee on $200 deposit. thats a $50 loss.
> 
> So they open pre-orders without performance and pricing details. And there is no consistency on refund if a buyer chooses to cancel the pre-order. different retailers are having different policy on cancellation. this is a basically AMD's Marketing and sales at its worst. Only AMD can come up with such genuine ways to screw up a good product launch.


How is it AMD's fault that a particular retailer wants to gouge their unsuspecting customers?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order
> 
> It looks like the little green button labeled "pre-order" actually works on Australian websites. Fancy that.
> 
> So Europe gets it, Australia gets it, and the black hole of suck that is North America gets the shaft.


Centercom isnt a reputable store, what they are doing is dodgy. They also have a $50 (25%) cancellation fee.

Only reputable stores in AU with good RMA and customer services are PCCG, Scorptech and Umart.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HolyDriver*
> 
> How is it AMD's fault that a particular retailer wants to gouge their unsuspecting customers?


AMD needed to have ensured that retailers don't levy charges on pre-order cancellations if AMD can't lift the embargo on performance reviews. thats what is consistent and logical.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Centercom isnt a reputable store, what they are doing is dodgy. They also have a $50 (25%) cancellation fee.
> 
> Only reputable stores in AU with good RMA and customer services are PCCG, Scorptech and Umart.


MWave supposedly has R2D2 Pre-orders too, and they're solid (albeit expensive)


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> And with a GPU you get hardware specifications.
> 
> 
> 
> I would argue you can infer less from hardware information compare to gameplay trailer. Considering the possible changes in architecture, just the hardware specs do not really tell you much. Unless you have a same die to compare with. In this case about the R9 290X, we do not have a complete hardware spec. Is it 44 ROPs or 64 ROPs?
Click to expand...

I would argue that trailers tell you nothing.

It's GCN. It's, quite literally, 37.5% more GCN. We've already had an updated GCN (7790, 7990) that just threw up the efficiency by ~40%. This GPU is about 40% bigger in the same power envelope.

Hard math to do there, eh?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HolyDriver*
> 
> How is it AMD's fault that a particular retailer wants to gouge their unsuspecting customers?
> 
> 
> 
> AMD needed to have ensured that retailers don't levy charges on pre-order cancellations if AMD can't lift the embargo on performance reviews. thats what is consistent and logical.
Click to expand...

Would you blame Sony if GameStop charged money to cancel a pre-order of a PS4?

This is in no way AMD's fault.


----------



## Alatar

AMD's issue is that they aren't used to strong arming retailers and OEMs into doing what AMD wants.

So retailers are just doing the minimum required for consumer protection laws or something.

Same reason why AMD can't get OEMs to make any decent build quality laptops with AMD chips in them. They don't have the size, experience, etc. to make those OEMs do it.

AMD needs consistency. Even if it means less retailers selling the cards or something but they really need consistency if they want a better public image. What they really needed to do was send an announcement to review, news, etc. sites where they listed:
1) All the retailers they support
2) When these retailers will put the cards up for pre-order
3) What is exactly included in the pre-order package
4) Specs for the card

Right now we just have a big mess.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> I would argue that trailers tell you nothing.
> 
> It's GCN. It's, quite literally, 37.5% more GCN. We've already had an updated GCN (7790, 7990) that just threw up the efficiency by ~40%. *This GPU is about 40% bigger* in the same power envelope.
> 
> Hard math to do there, eh?


more like 20% bigger in terms of die size but with atleast 40% more transistors. Hawaii is a much more densely packed die and thats easily possible on a well understood and very mature TSMC 28nm process. Tahiti is 365 sq mm while Hawaii is 438 sq mm.

http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4

"We had a chance to sit down with AMD Product Manager Devon Nekechuck to see how AMD's new top dog R9 290X stacks up against the green team's best single-GPU offering. *According to Nekechuck, even though the R9 290X uses a 438 square mm die, which is significantly smaller than the Titan's 550 sq. mm GK110 offering*, it "will definitely compete with the GTX 780 and Titan." "


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> I would argue that trailers tell you nothing.
> 
> It's GCN. It's, quite literally, 37.5% more GCN. We've already had an updated GCN (7790, 7990) that just threw up the efficiency by ~40%. This GPU is about 40% bigger in the same power envelope.
> 
> Hard math to do there, eh?
> Would you blame Sony if GameStop charged money to cancel a pre-order of a PS4?
> 
> This is in no way AMD's fault.


Except we have no idea how well would the ROPs or the shaders scale at this point. It is not gonna be a linear scale. And we still do not know the ROP amount as I said before. 20 ROPs difference is a lot. As for trailers, I said actual gameplay trailers.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> This is in no way AMD's fault.


I'd argue that it is AMD's fault for coming up with the idiotic pre-order idea in the first place, and making that announcement at the Hawaii event last month. If you want to do pre-orders, why not soft launch the card and then sell pre-orders between that date and the retail availability date?

How could they not even announce what version of BF4 is included (standard or premium)?


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> This is in no way AMD's fault.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd argue that it is AMD's fault for coming up with the idiotic pre-order idea in the first place, and making that announcement at the Hawaii event last month. If you want to do pre-orders, why not soft launch the card and then sell pre-orders between that date and the retail availability date?
> 
> How could they not even announce what version of BF4 is included (standard or premium)?
Click to expand...

Ya, the pre-order idea in general was their fault, but how the companies handle it (IE, cancellation fee) is not.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> AMD's issue is that they aren't used to strong arming retailers and OEMs into doing what AMD wants.
> 
> So retailers are just doing the minimum required for consumer protection laws or something.
> 
> Same reason why AMD can't get OEMs to make any decent build quality laptops with AMD chips in them. They don't have the size, experience, etc. to make those OEMs do it.
> 
> AMD needs consistency. Even if it means less retailers selling the cards or something but they really need consistency if they want a better public image. What they really needed to do was send an announcement to review, news, etc. sites where they listed:
> 1) All the retailers they support
> 2) When these retailers will put the cards up for pre-order
> 3) What is exactly included in the pre-order package
> 4) Specs for the card
> 
> Right now we just have a big mess.


I differ slightly. specs mean nothing without performance reviews and architecture details which would give clear idea of efficiency enhancements wrt perf and power. AMD could have opened pre-orders for R9 290X on 8th Oct but also allowed reviewers to release the R9 290X reviews with pricing, performance and architecture details. anyway R9 280X is going to be up on Oct 8th. so that would have been consistent. the mid range product is available immediately with the high end following soon within a week. Nvidia must be enjoying AMD shooting itself in the foot.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

It is such a shame that a potentially great and exciting new product is being so thoroughly dragged through the mud by an utterly incompetent and idiotic marketing department. No lie, I would fire everyone in that department tomorrow if I was the CEO. Everything from the joke of a product showcase to this frankly bizarre preorder disaster has been handled in the absolute worst way imaginable. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad for us consumers. Come on AMD, we need you guys to act like you have any idea what you're doing!


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> It is such a shame that a potentially great and exciting new product is being so thoroughly dragged through the mud by an utterly incompetent and idiotic marketing department. No lie, I would fire everyone in that department tomorrow if I was the CEO. Everything from the joke of a product showcase to this frankly bizarre preorder disaster has been handled in the absolute worst way imaginable. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad for us consumers. Come on AMD, we need you guys to act like you have any idea what you're doing!


It is amusing to see amd completely screw up the hype they generated through mantle. They should have followed up with some benches and launched the card quicker or delay the announcement.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

No kidding. Another sign of their incompetence: How in the hell have they been working on Mantle (a frankly revolutionary concept that could allow AMD unprecedented leverage considering their console positioning) for over two years, basically throwing all their eggs in this basket and then manage to not even have it ready for launch of their most important GPU possibly ever? It is absolutely mind blowing!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> No kidding. Another sign of their incompetence: How in the hell have they been working on Mantle (a frankly revolutionary concept that could allow AMD unprecedented leverage considering their console positioning) for over two years, basically throwing all their eggs in this basket and then manage to not even have it ready for launch of their most important GPU possibly ever? It is absolutely mind blowing!


That's AMD in a nutshell for ya.









I've been saying this for how long now?


----------



## Testier

At least they did not offer snowboards.


----------



## wvjeepguy81

Does it not look like the amd rep's twitter feed would leave one to believe it was Newegg's fault?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> At least they did not offer snowboards.












Nothing can top that. Well, maybe this can:


----------



## mattskiiau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Only reputable stores in AU with good RMA and customer services are PCCG, Scorptech and Umart.


We may not be "reputable", but this isn't one of our idea's. AMD wanted us to do this. No specs, no price, just pre-order.
I don't like the idea either.


----------



## raptor15sc

LOL at AMDRadeon's latest tweet (4 minutes ago):
" If you're in Australia, you can order your R9 290X 4GB @Battlefield 4 Edition here: http://on.fb.me/18Aa5HQ "

That's really a reliable place to "order" a video card if I ever saw one...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing can top that. Well, maybe this can:


Nothing beats the complimentary Fermi grill that nvidia packaged with their 480. Gives new meaning to a gamer,s breakfast.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Bwy_jNcQqdE/S7PHGKG5I9I/AAAAAAAADwg/nHu3Bz0sRYw/Nvidia_grill.jpg


----------



## wermad

Nice touch, my old Sapphire 7970 came with a mini dp to dvi adapter (~$30). Other then that, mostly badges with my other cards.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cenumis*
> 
> We may not be "reputable", but this isn't one of our idea's. AMD wanted us to do this. No specs, no price, just pre-order.
> I don't like the idea either.


Aaaand "retailer friction" confirmed?

At this point I'm just throwing up my hands at the monkey circus. It's just comical. It's gone past disbelief, through anger, and emerged into "awww, isn't that adorable-- all those cute toddlers are trying to launch a GPU." It's become just really precious, now.

It's a good thing it's a nice piece of silicon. Those little tykes will still get my money. Hopefully they don't eat it or bury it.


----------



## Vesku

AMD is trying to play the 290X launch like Apple might launch a new product line.

As has been stated AMD doesn't have the muscle or experience to control retailers and OEMs. Add in their refusal to disclose the basic specs or even the actual bundle price of the card for the pre-order and you have a giant mess, at least to many computer enthusiasts. Which is the target audience for the 290X. I can see refreshing their marketing staff hasn't yet resulted in any major improvements in execution.


----------



## mattskiiau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Aaaand "retailer friction" confirmed?.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> AMD is trying to play the 290X launch like Apple might launch a new product line.
> 
> As has been stated AMD doesn't have the muscle or experience to control retailers and OEMs. Add in their refusal to disclose the basic specs or even the actual bundle price of the card for the pre-order and you have a giant mess, at least to many computer enthusiasts. Which is the target audience for the 290X. I can see refreshing their marketing staff hasn't yet resulted in any major improvements in execution.


Yup. We were emailed by the rep an hour before all this went live in Australia. All that was supplied is the same banner that you see on all the retailers stores right now with a few options with what they wanted us to do. We know very little at the moment, just like everyone else.


----------



## Magariz

Does this feel lackluster compared to a 7970 to anyone else? Mine stock was 950/1400 and its overclocked to 1200/1650, just 800 less stream processors. For twice the price of a 7970 I expected a bit more is all I'm saying.


----------



## jimreaper218




----------



## stubass

I am thinking of getting a R9 290X as much xmas/b'day present so by then i should have a fair idea what to get... I wonder tho what prices will be like here in Thailand, could even be cheaper to give money to my friend in the US and cover shipping


----------



## raptor15sc

So it is now Oct. 4th on the West Coast, has anyone found anything new available?


----------



## SpartaRoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> So it is now Oct. 4th on the West Coast, has anyone found anything new available?


No, and I'm getting rather impatient and annoyed. My conversation with Roy Taylor went rather well, where he implied the 290X would be available today. Looks like it's not.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> So it is now Oct. 4th on the West Coast, has anyone found anything new available?


Naw. Last night everyone refreshing browsers believed it would be a tight operation. Today was such a clusterfark that I don't expect that to change until the hard launch. Maybe sometime tomorrow we can pre-order. Maybe not. Either way I think I'll sleep well tonight.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cenumis*
> 
> We may not be "reputable", but this isn't one of our idea's. AMD wanted us to do this. No specs, no price, just pre-order.
> I don't like the idea either.


Discounts for OCN members, right?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cenumis*
> 
> We may not be "reputable", but this isn't one of our idea's. AMD wanted us to do this. No specs, no price, just pre-order.
> I don't like the idea either.


Which store do you run/work for?

When it comes to "Pc parts" only the three I mentioned are the best. PCCG stocks almost every thing. they have the largest collection of watercooling components apart from gammods and Thekoolroom whcih are exclusive water cooling shops of course.

This is from my personal experience and whirlpool forums store ratings.

PCCG pre orders closed.

Quote:



> Pre-order registration limit has been reached! All those who have expressed interest will be contacted by email once the cards arrive in mid October!


----------



## mattskiiau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Discounts for OCN members, right?


I may have to look into something like this to get our rep back up there!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Which store do you run/work for?
> 
> When it comes to "Pc parts" only the three I mentioned are the best. PCCG stocks almost every thing. they have the largest collection of watercooling components apart from gammods and Thekoolroom whcih are exclusive water cooling shops of course.
> 
> This is from my personal experience and whirlpool forums store ratings.


I work at centre com. But I have to agree with you, PCCG and the rest are amazing when it comes to pc parts. We mostly focus on laptops etc.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cenumis*
> 
> I may have to look into something like this to get our rep back up there!


I'm already starting to forget PCC.......


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> I'm already starting to forget PCC.......


I'D prolly too, If they didnt have the 25% cancellation fee


----------



## famich

Come on, guys , I am from Europe and I m with you on this.

Agree with Majjin about AMD marketing department. They should have done better, no doubt about that.

But this "Apple " like preoder theater appeals to me as something entirely new and , really, fulfilling at least 1 supposed role: to
attract , puzzle and possibly catch /hook up / new customers.

I have placed my preorder at OCUK and if I am not convinced, I ll get my 100GBP back for sure.
So, yes, it s unusual , it s new, let us wait and see..









Look at Nvidia: they have milked a lot of cows with imperfect Tesla chips -- first Titan and then GTX 780 s, I had a couple of really bad GTX 780 cores.All sold...


----------



## infranoia

Duncan Dalzell ‏@Duncandalzell1
@AMDRadeon @Battlefield @Newegg still not available... AMD droppin the ball telling the world it can pre-order oct 3, here I sit on the 4th

[email protected] ‏@amd_roy
@Duncandalzell1 @AMDRadeon @Battlefield @Newegg @TigerDirect @Thracks @HeatherJLennon Duncan we are so all over this. Apologies.


----------



## Raghar

Voice Of Reason - Folks shouldn't you wait for some reviews first?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Voice Of Reason - Folks shouldn't you wait for some reviews first?


Don't fight the angry mob, just roll with it.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Voice Of Reason - Folks shouldn't you wait for some reviews first?


I'm at 40nm. I have cash. My Skyrim is a slideshow with 3.5GB of textures per scene.

I'm not religious, I seriously considered the 780, which I had in a number of shopping carts at one point. But in the end, I'd have extreme buyer's remorse if I got a 780 at this point. Why? Because the 290x is:

1. guaranteed to be faster than the 7970 GHz
2. GCN, so unified with console development with Mantle
3. 4GB of VRAM
4. Newer than the 780.
5. Includes an audio DSP and a new API, which is interesting to me

Why would I need reviews? To tell me that it's sometimes just as fast as something I don't want, so I should instead get the thing that will be out-of-step with primary game development (console to PC) for the next 5 to 10 years?

Also: I'm on Windows 7, and that's not going to change any time soon. Microsoft's artificial "DirectX 11.2 only works on Windows 8" business is completely bypassed by Mantle, which will expose more of the hardware than any version of DirectX / OpenGL could. GCN / Mantle / TrueAudio is simply more /interesting/ as an enthusiast thing than PhysX & CUDA for me, at this point. There's simply more potential there, and more of a possibility of exploiting all these new APIs, because of AMD's vertical integration for the next decade.

And even if that promise all comes to grief (like PhysX), it's still a fast part with a good amount of VRAM. What's not to like?


----------



## hatlesschimp

Does it have HDMI 2.0?


----------



## Hattifnatten

Pretty sure it has.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Don't fight the angry mob, just roll with it.


Voice Of Reason - So you are people from psychiatric ward, with machine guns and bags of cash? Don't mention to police I seen ya, go for it, and have fun boys.

Skyrim? That's that game I played on passively cooled NV 8600 GT (with 256 MB RAM). I heard it's mostly CPU dependent.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> I'm at 40nm. I have cash. My Skyrim is a slideshow with 3.5GB of textures per scene.
> 
> I'm not religious, I seriously considered the 780, which I had in a number of shopping carts at one point. But in the end, I'd have extreme buyer's remorse if I got a 780 at this point. Why? Because the 290x is:
> 
> 1. guaranteed to be faster than the 7970 GHz
> 2. GCN, so unified with console development with Mantle
> 3. 4GB of VRAM
> 4. Newer than the 780.
> 5. Includes an audio DSP and a new API, which is interesting to me
> 
> Why would I need reviews? To tell me that it's sometimes just as fast as something I don't want, so I should instead get the thing that will be out-of-step with primary game development (console to PC) for the next 5 to 10 years?
> 
> Also: I'm on Windows 7, and that's not going to change any time soon. Microsoft's artificial "DirectX 11.2 only works on Windows 8" business is completely bypassed by Mantle, which will expose more of the hardware than any version of DirectX / OpenGL could. GCN / Mantle / TrueAudio is simply more /interesting/ as an enthusiast thing than PhysX & CUDA for me, at this point. There's simply more potential there, and more of a possibility of exploiting all these new APIs, because of AMD's vertical integration for the next decade.


Wow somebody who has a very clear idea of what he wants and also who has an idea that Mantle is a game changer.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> Wow somebody who has a very clear idea of what he wants and also who has an idea that Mantle is a game changer.


So far, it's similar to OpenGL extensions. Of course when it will be selfconsistent and designed to work well with easy code typing, it can remove DX11.2 from the scene. At the very least it can force MS to backport DX11.2 to W7.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Skyrim? That's that game I played on passively cooled NV 8600 GT (with 256 MB RAM). I heard it's mostly CPU dependent.


Clearly you never modded it. I'm at 287 mods currently, most of them sporting 2k and 4k textures. Skyrim isn't a game, it's a development platform.


----------



## serothis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> Wow somebody who has a very clear idea of what he wants and also who has an idea that Mantle is a game changer.


I really don't think mantel is a game changer. I don't think consoles will use it that extensively. Consider what mantle actually is. it's a more effecient version of dx. dx is only used because there's an nearly infinite set of hardware combination out there. On consoles you have a huge group of customers all running the exact same hardware. which means you can more effieciently program at low levels to get the most out of that hardware. So for consoles mantle is kind of moot.

For desktops/laptops, well there's still that problem of infinite hardware combinations. From a developer's prospective dx works for nearly all your potential customers whereas mantle only works for your amd customers, and more specifically only your amd customes that run gcn gpus. That means no nvidia customers, no laptop customers, no apu customers, no older amd gpu customers, etc. And dx still works for your gcn gpu customers. So unless you're getting sponsorship from amd there's not much incentive to use yet another api. which is kind of why nvapi (nvidia's api) never really took off. as a developer I'm still going to be developing for dx for all my other customers so why would i want to add to the cost to develop for yet another api for gpus that will be covered by the default api (directX)?

I really hope mantle works but I'm highly skeptical. It's not going to live up to the hype and it's success largely depends on if amd can convince developers to use it. And from a developer's point of view I don't see the motivation, outside of sponsorship from amd. And amd can't pay every developer to use their api.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> So far, it's similar to OpenGL extensions. Of course when it will be selfconsistent and designed to work well with easy code typing, it can remove DX11.2 from the scene. At the very least it can force MS to backport DX11.2 to W7.


you are wrong. please read up on Mantle

http://anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63428-closer-look-amds-mantle.html


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you are wrong. please read up on Mantle
> 
> http://anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63428-closer-look-amds-mantle.html


Depending on the amount of gain we can have and performance increase at launch. We might not be able to reap its rewards for numbers of years, which at that point, it would be moot to the current arguement.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serothis*
> 
> I really don't think mantel is a game changer. I don't think consoles will use it that extensively. Consider what mantle actually is. it's a more effecient version of dx. dx is only used because there's an nearly infinite set of hardware combination out there. On consoles you have a huge group of customers all running the exact same hardware. which means you can more effieciently program at low levels to get the most out of that hardware. So for consoles mantle is kind of moot.
> 
> For desktops/laptops, well there's still that problem of infinite hardware combinations. From a developer's prospective dx works for nearly all your potential customers whereas mantle only works for your amd customers, and more specifically only your amd customes that run gcn gpus. That means no nvidia customers, no laptop customers, no apu customers, no older amd gpu customers, etc. And dx still works for your gcn gpu customers. So unless you're getting sponsorship from amd there's not much incentive to use yet another api. which is kind of why nvapi (nvidia's api) never really took off. as a developer I'm still going to be developing for dx for all my other customers so why would i want to add to the cost to develop for yet another api for gpus that will be covered by the default api (directX)?
> 
> I really hope mantle works but I'm highly skeptical. It's not going to live up to the hype and it's success largely depends on if amd can convince developers to use it. And from a developer's point of view I don't see the motivation, outside of sponsorship from amd. And amd can't pay every developer to use their api.


The good thing about game development is not everybody develops game engines which are extremely complex. there are a few very popular engines which are widely used. to name a few

DICE - Frostbite 3
EPIC - Unreal Engine 4
VALVE - Source
CRYTEK - Cryengine 3

Once a game engine developer integrates support for Mantle all games developed using that engine benefit. So all EA games benefit from Mantle as they all are using Frostbite 3. You can bet AMD has been courting the top game engine studios in the last 2 years. expect to hear more at AMD Fusion developer summit in Nov.

Also you are missing the key factor here. Starting from Temash , Kabini and the upcoming Kaveri every AMD APU is GCN based. whats more even an ARM v8 based tablet SOC with GCN graphics will benefit from Mantle because its cross platform.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20131002232004_AMD_Readies_64_Bit_ARM_Application_Processor_for_Consumer_Devices_Report.html

AMD can even pay to get these key developers to support Mantle because that benefits the entire AMD product stack starting from tablet APUs to desktop APUs to high end GPUs. an AMD Kaveri APU with Mantle in BF4 or an upcoming Unreal Engine 4 based game. now thats what we are talking.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serothis*
> 
> I really don't think mantel is a game changer. I don't think consoles will use it that extensively. Consider what mantle actually is. it's a more effecient version of dx. [...]


Mantle *is* the AMD console API. What makes Mantle a game-changer is that it's nearly *free* for developers to use when moving from console to PC.

Remember all those crappy ports from the last generation? That won't happen any more, unless you're running Nvidia hardware, and they have chosen politically to not support a low-level NV interface for Mantle (which, remember, is open). AMD's move forces Nvidia to eat crow to participate in this generation, or they will sacrifice a certain percentage of performance in their silicon by writing to higher-level DX or OGL. Remember what Nvidia did with PhysX and CUDA to lock out AMD, the shenanigans over TWIMTBP and their nasty response to AMD's console wins-- they have a fair amount of corporate hubris. I suspect based on their actions that they'll choose not to participate, but instead will give up efficiency and throw bigger and bigger metal at the problem.

Read Raghu's links. Both of them.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Clearly you never modded it. I'm at 287 mods currently, most of them sporting 2k and 4k textures. Skyrim isn't a game, it's a development platform.


Actually I play games unmoded. I think Bethesda shouldn't be saved by modders. When they have no clue about game development, game should show that. Also, I didn't find any proper mod for no level scaling like was OOO.

I actually don't understand why no Skyrim moder was able to make stuff like OOO. As long as modder skills, brain, and patience remained the same, someone should make a non level scaled mod.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you are wrong. please read up on Mantle
> 
> http://anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63428-closer-look-amds-mantle.html


I actually wanted to wait until they would officially release it, before I'd look at it. Marketing slides are not that much relevant for actual performance.

Quote:


> It's an API that focuses on "bare metal", low level programming with a thin, lightweight driver that effectively manages resource distribution, grants additional control over the graphics memory interface


This looks more like AMD isn't into driver programming and wanna developers to do work for AMD.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I actually wanted to wait until they would officially release it, before I'd look at it. Marketing slides are not that much relevant for actual performance.


If you choose to ignore AMD's strategy and stated goals, you might not want to pontificate over whether it will be successful or not.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I actually wanted to wait until they would officially release it, before I'd look at it. Marketing slides are not that much relevant for actual performance. This looks more like AMD isn't into driver programming and wanna developers to do work for AMD.


please read the interview. Mantle was an effort spearheaded by DICE's Johan Anderson. It was about listening to developers and working with them to provide what they wanted. a low level API on the PC which can extract the best performance from the PC GPU hardware.

http://www.hardware.fr/focus/89/amd-mantle-interview-raja-koduri.html

Do you plan to have Mantle as an AMD brand ?

RK - Those are questions for our marketing department. For me I want to keep my life simple. Johan [Andersson; DICE] is a great guy, he's so passionate about graphics hardware, GPUs and pushing the envelope. He wanted something and if I can make people like Johan happy it makes everybody happy.

How long have you or AMD been working on Mantle ?

RK - It's an initiative that has been going on for a long time; *the problem statement from developers like Johan has been around for more than 5 years*. They have been coming and talking to us that they are able to get much more performance from game consoles than on the PC for these exact reasons that we don't have direct access to memory, we don't have direct access to scheduling, we don't have direct access to some of the features that we know are in hardware but are not integrated in APIs.

*The idea started then but the timing in terms of when it was the right time for us to do happens to be now. With the new console generation and architecture compatibility it just came together right at the perfect moment for us.*

So the new consoles were the catalyst for Mantle to be launched on Windows ?

RK - *I wouldn't say that because this is driven more by the game developers than us, so the game developers are ready for major kind of tests, working on new engines, new stuff and they really want to take the PC as a first class citizen. They don't want to forget it as they're architecting their engines for new consoles. They really want to make sure that PC performance moves forward. It's a better timing from a game engine stand point than AMD stand point.
*
If the game engines [developers] were ready to say "hey we'll put dedicated effort", if Johan came to us and say "I have time I will do the work now" and half dozen other people like Johan also put their hands up, I'm sure other companies and AMD would have say yes years ago to do that thing but they were busy with the last generation consoles, PC and other stuff. Now they're ready.

During the presentation of Mantle you said it was developed with several AAA developers in the gaming industry. In addition to DICE, when can we expect the first announcements ? Around the developer summit (APU13) ?

RK - I think you may see more around developer summit. *Mantle for us is a very developer driven effort, when they are ready they'll say it. Johan was ready he said it. It is not like we came up with Mantle then we kind of want to push it, it is not AMD's CUDA.*


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> more like 20% bigger in terms of die size but with atleast 40% more transistors. Hawaii is a much more densely packed die and thats easily possible on a well understood and very mature TSMC 28nm process. Tahiti is 365 sq mm while Hawaii is 438 sq mm.


You give the illusion of intelligence to the readers of this forum but on what real life facts are you basing those extremely optimist views? Both AMD and NVIDIA seem to do an efficient job when a process node is first released since they have proven they are incapable of improving their existing dies even a whole year later when they update the Stepping of their chip (e.g. GK104-version:GTX770). They both seem to be incapable to do anything other than increasing the die size on the same process node, which is precisely what they both do with GK110 and this new series.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> You give the illusion of intelligence to the readers of this forum but on what real life facts are you basing those extremely optimist views? Both AMD and NVIDIA seem to do an efficient job when a process node is first released since they have proven they are incapable of improving their existing dies even a whole year later when they update the Stepping of their chip (e.g. GK104-version:GTX770). They both seem to be incapable to do anything other than increasing the die size on the same process node, which is precisely what they both do with GK110 and this new series.


They're probably used to frequent shrinks in the past but this time the shrinks are harder to get and longer to get there as well. Really, their only option is to improve the crap out of current architecture or increase die size or do both at the same time. The question is if a newer architecture can even give us a 50% boost on the same node if we're lucky, or even get back to progress like the 7900 GT vs 8800 GTX days where it's a 2x increase over previous generation.


----------



## infranoia

Right, and remember that we're up against the wall with both processor and GPU dies. Die shrinks don't provide the same performance delta they used to, and there is a hard limit where Moore's Law is becoming irrelevant. We're a decade or more away from engineering quantum logic for consumer equipment.

You can't engineer your way out of this. At some point you have to rely on new software techniques, APIs & strategies to advance. AMD just happens to have a plan right when everyone's thinking about this.

So yes, Nvidia could hypothetically rule 20nm by brute force. But then what? I guess we'll stay tuned.


----------



## Sunreeper

Graphene.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> *You give the illusion of intelligence* to the readers of this forum but on what real life facts are you basing those extremely optimist views? Both AMD and NVIDIA seem to do an efficient job when a process node is first released since they have proven they are incapable of improving their existing dies even a whole year later when they update the Stepping of their chip (e.g. GK104-version:GTX770). They both seem to be incapable to do anything other than increasing the die size on the same process node, which is precisely what they both do with GK110 and this new series.


did you even read the presentation by AMD.

http://www.techpowerup.com/191453/amd-gpu14-event-detailed-announces-radeon-r9-290x.html

slide 35 "R9 290 series More than 6 billion transistors"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review

"Cutting right to the chase, the 7970 will serve as AMD's flagship video card for the Southern Islands family. Based on a complete AMD Tahiti GPU, it has 2048 stream processors organized according to AMD's new SIMD-based GCN architecture. With so many stream processors coupled with a 384bit GDDR5 memory bus, it's no surprise that Tahiti is has the highest transistor count of any GPU yet: 4.31B transistors. Fabricated on TSMC's new 28nm High-K process, *this gives it a die size of 365mm2*"

http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4

"We had a chance to sit down with AMD Product Manager Devon Nekechuck to see how AMD's new top dog R9 290X stacks up against the green team's best single-GPU offering. According to Nekechuck, even though the *R9 290X uses a 438 square mm die*, which is significantly smaller than the Titan's 550 sq. mm GK110 offering, it "will definitely compete with the GTX 780 and Titan." "

So Tahiti - 4.3 bn transistors - 365 sq mm
Hawaii - 6+ bn transistors - 438 sq mm . (365 x 1.2 = 438) (4.31 x 1.4 = 6.034)

so even though exact number of transistors is not given for Hawaii its still atleast 40% more transistors and a 20% larger die size. obviously transistor packing density is much higher.

btw GTX 770 is a newer stepping of the same GK104 chip. so no major improvements are possible as the transistor layout is the same. Hawaii is a completely new chip. Hawaii is also the latest GPU chip built at TSMC 28nm. built a year after GK110. Hawaii's transistor packing density is the highest of any GPU by both AMD and Nvidia.

http://techreport.com/review/24381/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-reviewed
http://techreport.com/review/24539/amd-radeon-hd-7790-graphics-card-reviewed

Hawaii - 6000 / 438 = 13.69 million transistors per sq mm
Pitcairn - 2800 / 212 = 13.2 million transistors per sq mm
Bonaire - 2080 / 160 = 13 million transistors per sq mm
Cape Verde - 1500 / 123 = 12.19 million transistors per sq mm
Tahiti - 4310 / 365 = 11.80 million transistors per sq mm

GK104 - 3500 / 294 = 11.9 million transistors per sq mm
GK106 - 2540 / 214 = 11.86 million transistors per sq mm
GK110 - 7100 / 551 = 12.88 million transistors per sq mm


----------



## xnorex

So... when are we going to start a rallying call to AMD's twitter account? Because so far It looks like they're doing nothing for the US because no one is complaining. Ok maybe like 2-3 ppl tweeted at them, but that's nothing!

We need tweets at:
@amd_roy
@AMDRadeon
@AMD

c'mon ppl we can't let them get away with this! not one news outlet even mentioned this yesterday, they're all to busy focusing on Newegg's placeholder price found in the HTML.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> did you even read


I know your type now. You are one of those users that can't talk with their own mind but they have to copy paste whole pages of URLs to give the illusion to others (and it works judging by your popularity) that they know what they are talking about (smart people say if you can't say it simply, you don't get it). I have explicitly called out the releases of AMD and NVIDIA for the past 2 years and the releases they are about to make, and I see absolutely no evidence, in real releases, that AMD (or NVIDIA) can improve their old dies on the same process node without increasing the die size.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I know your type now. You are one of those users that can't talk with their own mind but they have to copy paste whole pages of URLs to give the illusion to others (and it works judging by your popularity) that they know what they are talking about (smart people say if you can't say it simply, you don't get it). I have explicitly called out the releases of AMD and NVIDIA for the past 2 years and the releases they are about to make, and *I see absolutely no evidence, in real releases, that AMD (or NVIDIA) can improve their old dies on the same process node without increasing the die size.[*


what are you crapping. I said that AMD has improved the transistor packing density on Hawaii wrt Tahiti and thats entirely true based on the numbers. In fact Hawaii is he most densely packed GPU by AMD or Nvidia. thats also true from the numbers. Generally with a mature process the transistor layout can be more dense as all the process related variables are well understood . for example cayman had higher transistor density than cypress.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/3

" Cayman has 2.64 billion transistors, 500mil more than Cypress. AMD was able to pack 29% more transistors in only 16% more space"

Hawaii's improvement in packing density wrt Tahiti is even better than from cayman wrt cypress . if you still are not convinced you can believe what you want to.


----------



## Forceman

And even more recently, and relatively (since it is GCN), the 7790 is 40% more transistors in only a 30% larger die, and with only a 5% higher TDP. So they definitely can improve the chips on the same process.


----------



## fateswarm

raghu78, I understand in theoretical theory of theorizing about design, the designs are increasing density. But look at it in practice, NVIDIA and AMD are releasing something right after a process node is released and by your own admission since the design is same, a whole year later they seem completely incapable of improving it (unless I guess they do minor fixes for stability). Plus let's be honest here, we do not know what games they play with calculating the "corners" of the die and all that to increase the numbers slightly, and apart from all that, in general I think we are being fed too much propaganda about the "control" of AMD or NVIDIA over their designs when in reality TSMC is a factor so big that in the end, and in practice, they both just go with a bigger die within the time frame available, in practice, practically.


----------



## xnorex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> So... when are we going to start a rallying call to AMD's twitter account? Because so far It looks like they're doing nothing for the US because no one is complaining. Ok maybe like 2-3 ppl tweeted at them, but that's nothing!
> 
> We need tweets at:
> @amd_roy
> @AMDRadeon
> @AMD
> 
> c'mon ppl we can't let them get away with this! not one news outlet even mentioned this yesterday, they're all to busy focusing on Newegg's placeholder price found in the HTML.


No one??? I guess everyone would rather argue about spec hypotheticals lol.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xnorex*
> 
> No one??? I guess everyone would rather argue about spec hypotheticals lol.


Edit: Roy responded to my tweet!


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> raghu78, I understand in theoretical theory of theorizing about design, the designs are increasing density. But look at it in practice, NVIDIA and AMD are releasing something right after a process node is released and by your own admission since the design is same, a whole year later they seem completely incapable of improving it (unless I guess they do minor fixes for stability). Plus let's be honest here, we do not know what games they play with calculating the "corners" of the die and all that to increase the numbers slightly, and apart from all that, in general I think we are being fed too much propaganda about the "control" of AMD or NVIDIA over their designs when in reality TSMC is a factor so big that in the end, and in practice, they both just go with a bigger die within the time frame available, in practice, practically.


I don't get your logic here. The improvements on a chip simply by a new stepping are minor. You cannot improve transistor density in those cases at all. thats what GTX 770 is. But an entirely new chip like Hawaii which means a completely new tapeout is another whole ballgame. AMD Hawaii releases 21 months after HD 7970 and 12 months after GK110. thats a lot of time for process related improvements to incorporate into the chip design.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Cleaned and reopened. Sorry folks for the delay but please behave and watch the swearing. Remember, asterisks that partially or fully coverup swear words is still considered swearing.


----------



## jimreaper218

I really can't believe how awful this pre-order is being handled. I haven't owned a Radeon card for many years, but I really only play BF4 so it seems like a logical choice. But the fact that they can't even tell us when the cards are going to be available in the US is just shaking my confidence in them. Every day it's "sorry, tomorrow is the day!!". They lie as much as DICE so it seems like a good partnership.


----------



## dir_d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> I really can't believe how awful this pre-order is being handled. I haven't owned a Radeon card for many years, but I really only play BF4 so it seems like a logical choice. But the fact that they can't even tell us when the cards are going to be available in the US is just shaking my confidence in them. Every day it's "sorry, tomorrow is the day!!". They lie as much as DICE so it seems like a good partnership.


Stuff happens man, I've been on plenty of huge projects were we've been set back. This AMDS first Apple eske pre order/release. I'm pretty sure there are very little players in this since there hasn't been very many leaks or anything. This one of the fall backs of having a small team and a new strategy.


----------



## jimreaper218

Yeah, I get that. I just can't understand why they don't know when the pre-orders will be available in the US. They must know where the cards physically are, it's not like they in the shop putting them together. This must be some type of communication issue, but why tweet stuff like "we launch on the 3rd", then "sorry US, it'll be on the 4th", then nothing. come on now. It doesn't instill much confidence is all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dir_d*
> 
> Stuff happens man, I've been on plenty of huge projects were we've been set back. This AMDS first Apple eske pre order/release. I'm pretty sure there are very little players in this since there hasn't been very many leaks or anything. This one of the fall backs of having a small team and a new strategy.


----------



## PureBlackFire

That's AMD for you, or what they've become. A miserable pile of excuses.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> I'm at 40nm. I have cash. My Skyrim is a slideshow with 3.5GB of textures per scene.
> 
> I'm not religious, I seriously considered the 780, which I had in a number of shopping carts at one point. But in the end, I'd have extreme buyer's remorse if I got a 780 at this point. Why? Because the 290x is:
> 
> 1. guaranteed to be faster than the 7970 GHz
> 2. GCN, so unified with console development with Mantle
> 3. 4GB of VRAM
> 4. Newer than the 780.
> 5. Includes an audio DSP and a new API, which is interesting to me
> 
> Why would I need reviews? To tell me that it's sometimes just as fast as something I don't want, so I should instead get the thing that will be out-of-step with primary game development (console to PC) for the next 5 to 10 years?
> 
> Also: I'm on Windows 7, and that's not going to change any time soon. Microsoft's artificial "DirectX 11.2 only works on Windows 8" business is completely bypassed by Mantle, which will expose more of the hardware than any version of DirectX / OpenGL could. GCN / Mantle / TrueAudio is simply more /interesting/ as an enthusiast thing than PhysX & CUDA for me, at this point. There's simply more potential there, and more of a possibility of exploiting all these new APIs, because of AMD's vertical integration for the next decade.
> 
> And even if that promise all comes to grief (like PhysX), it's still a fast part with a good amount of VRAM. What's not to like?


Good points but make sure you can return the thing if it doesn't turn out to be what was expected.









AMD has failed deliver with Phenom I as well as Bulldozer on the CPU side and on the GPU side R200 series, X1000 (R500) series, HD 2000 (R600) series, and Northern Islands / HD6000 series, so as a company you can't trust them _too_ much , at least not until you see some release reviews.

Who knows it could be another 9000 series ala 2002 or Athlon 64 if they pull it off right.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> I don't get your logic here. The improvements on a chip simply by a new stepping are minor. You cannot improve transistor density in those cases at all. thats what GTX 770 is. But an entirely new chip like Hawaii which means a completely new tapeout is another whole ballgame. AMD Hawaii releases 21 months after HD 7970 and 12 months after GK110. thats a lot of time for process related improvements to incorporate into the chip design.


And in practice, they increased the die size. Whatever improvements they do (on density), that is explicit proof they are negligible for their performance goals. Plus, are we certain that the transistor density reports are not disingenuous or that they all follow the same consistent methodology on measurement?


----------



## maarten12100

The 290x is a few percent slower stock vs stock without boost against the Titan and will OC great on air.
And they are doing that with a smaller die this card is certainly more impressive than the Titan considering that is just Nvidia's big die strategy for you instead of an extremely refined architecture.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The 290x is a few percent slower stock vs stock without boost against the Titan and will OC great on air.
> And they are doing that with a smaller die this card is certainly more impressive than the Titan considering that is just Nvidia's big die strategy for you instead of an extremely refined architecture.


I hope so. But let's not forget reality. We don't have benchmarks yet from people that are definitely (or without a reasonable doubt) not shills.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The 290x is a few percent slower stock vs stock without


We seen stocks settings? I thought we seen only Koreans who overclocked the heck out of it, and suspiciously low firestrike score on AMD slides.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I hope so. But let's not forget reality. We don't have benchmarks yet from people that are definitely (or without a reasonable doubt) not shills.


I'm normally all about knowing the source but if [H] Kyle the Hardforum moderator and an XS moderator says so I'm gonna take their word for it as they are some of the most respected people in the enthusiast scene.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> We seen stocks settings? I thought we seen only Koreans who overclocked the heck out of it, and suspiciously low firestrike score on AMD slides.


We've seen leaked benchmarks with it running @1020MHz in which it blew Titan out of its socks (The Titan was boosting to only 960)
Stock vs stock without boost we will see the Titan being just a few percent on average ahead (though even that is likely to change since AMD will certainly win on Mantle games since they are already only a few percent from Titan)

To me it seems like the 290x is going to be amazing considering the relatively small die it supposedly has.
Still in dubio whether I should get one but I'm seriously considering it, as always it will depend on whether it is affordable here in NL.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I'm normally all about knowing the source but if [H] Kyle the Hardforum moderator and an XS moderator says so I'm gonna take their word for it as they are some of the most respected people in the enthusiast scene..


That wasn't Kyle speaking - he said "AMD sez". Not the same thing at all. The guy on XS also said the Titan was faster at stock - he quickly walked back his initial "RIP Titan" comment.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> That wasn't Kyle speaking - he said "AMD sez". Not the same thing at all. The guy on XS also said the Titan was faster at stock - he quickly walked back his initial "RIP Titan" comment.


I know it was a respectable source, And I stated Titan is a few percents ahead stock vs stock without boost.


----------



## Pheonix777z

I want to see how the 290X compares when overclocked,

290X (Stock)

Shading Units: 2816
TMUs: 176
ROPs: 44
Compute Units: 11
*Pixel Rate: 35.2 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 141 GTexel/s*

GTX 780 (Stock)

Shading Units: 2304
TMUs: 192
ROPs: 48
SMX Count: 12
*Pixel Rate: 41.4 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 166 GTexel/s*

GTX 780 (OC @ 1252mhz)

Shading Units: 2304
TMUs: 192
ROPs: 48
SMX Count: 12
*Pixel Rate: 60.1 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 240.4 GTexel/s*

Be very impressed if AMD can beat this...


----------



## Shmerrick

LOLWUT $1200?! No thanks AMD.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shmerrick*
> 
> LOLWUT $1200?! No thanks AMD.


Yet another victim of DRTT.











(Didn't Read The Thread)


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Yet another victim of DRTT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Didn't Read The Thread)


Its funny


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Yet another victim of DRTT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Didn't Read The Thread)


I'd go further than that. At this point it's reasonable to ignore benchmarks since at least a good number of them are marketing, plus even the specs are unreliable, though granted, more reliable than the benchmarks. In my opinion the best one can do is take the vague specs of the Presentation as certain (e.g. number of transistors), without discounting completely that they may have stretched it even there but I doubt they will easily fall so low, and for everything else take them as "vague trends" or even ignore them.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Yet another victim of DRTT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Didn't Read The Thread)
> 
> 
> 
> I'd go further than that. At this point it's reasonable to ignore benchmarks since at least a good number of them are marketing, plus even the specs are unreliable, though granted, more reliable than the benchmarks. In my opinion the best one can do is take the vague specs of the Presentation as certain (e.g. number of transistors), without discounting completely that they may have stretched it even there but I doubt they will easily fall so low, and for everything else take them as "vague trends" or even ignore them.
Click to expand...

And you are a victim of DRQP.

(Didn't Read Quoted Post)


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> And you are a victim of DRQP.
> 
> (Didn't Read Quoted Post)


You got AATMA.

An addiction to making acronyms


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> You got AATMA.
> 
> An addiction to making acronyms


You all are KME.

killing my eyes


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> And you are a victim of DRQP.
> 
> (Didn't Read Quoted Post)


Wow you are the most funniest mod , I have seen on these forums.

wat ?!? Mods cant be given rep ?

We goin







.

You are all DFTT

(Diverting from the topic.)


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheonix777z*
> 
> I want to see how the 290X compares when overclocked,
> 
> 290X (Stock)
> 
> Shading Units: 2816
> TMUs: 176
> ROPs: 44
> Compute Units: 11
> *Pixel Rate: 35.2 GPixel/s
> Texture Rate: 141 GTexel/s*
> 
> GTX 780 (Stock)
> 
> Shading Units: 2304
> TMUs: 192
> ROPs: 48
> SMX Count: 12
> *Pixel Rate: 41.4 GPixel/s
> Texture Rate: 166 GTexel/s*
> 
> GTX 780 (OC @ 1252mhz)
> 
> Shading Units: 2304
> TMUs: 192
> ROPs: 48
> SMX Count: 12
> *Pixel Rate: 60.1 GPixel/s
> Texture Rate: 240.4 GTexel/s*
> 
> Be very impressed if AMD can beat this...


I assure you it will.
What would be the point otherwise.


----------



## Offler

Still, information regarding Hawaii XT core are bit messy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units

http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder

How the guys at Videocardz even dare to release information in a manner "ROPs = 44 (64)". Its a huge difference in theoretical performance...


----------



## Anonymoos3r

^ Yeah have to agree, seeming by the wiki page, it seems that the 290X is higher than the 7970Ghz in many ways (as it probably should be), except for base and boost clock, which seems to be very lagging. Going by Powercolor and their stats on the R9 270X. So me, personally, will not be using the videocardz stats of the 290X.

http://www.powercolor.com/us/products_layer_2.asp?ByBus=PCI-E


----------



## Offler

Hawaii XT still seems to me as 2x Pitcairn (curacao?) on same die... Similar approach which did Nvidia in case of Titan.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Hawaii XT still seems to me as 2x Pitcairn (curacao?) on same die... Similar approach which did Nvidia in case of Titan.


Hawaii XT (2816 SP) has more than twice the shaders of Pitcairn XT (1280 SP X 2 = 2560 SP, Hawaii Pro).


----------



## supergamer

64 ROPs there you go..


----------



## szeged

if amd allows custom pcb's of this card, i might wait a bit to grab a asus matrix, since i could never get my hands on a platinum 7970


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergamer*
> 
> 64 ROPs there you go..


It's over 48!
that is truly great


----------



## TamaDrumz76

I really wish they'd just release the damned thing already...


----------



## Nonehxc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> if *amd* allows *custom pcb*'s of this card, i might wait a bit to *grab a asus matrix*, since i could never get my hands on a platinum 7970


I see you like water. You might like to reconsider that custom PCB purchase. Past generation(GCN) waterblocks were available only for reference designs, cause AiB partners went crazy with the custom SKUs. If this generation of GCN has the same behaviour, you'll be happier purchasing reference designs.

Also, the overclocking potential from a reference design to a custom pcb design was nil on air on water(before the AiB started voltage locking their cards to prevent lesser cards eating into their big brother sales...7950-->Toxic, 7970-->Matrix, etc). When they did that, reference designs pulled even more ahead, cause the VRM set used on them was pretty good by AMD specs. They overclocked enormously, so your only enemies were the temp [email protected]º on air and the voltage wall under water. The Matrix had a beefy VRM section for LN2 but wasn't known as an amazing card all around. We even have one OCN member that split it a-la-Hulk in a fit of rage after many problems, poor overclock and GPUtweak throwing tantrums cause the Matrix was locked to GPUTweak for overclock. Tsm106's avatar is the picture of that split Matrix









People with reference designs purchased on launch day got golden chips regularly


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nonehxc*
> 
> I see you like water. You might like to reconsider that custom PCB purchase. Past generation(GCN) waterblocks were available only for reference designs, cause AiB partners went crazy with the custom SKUs. If this generation of GCN has the same behaviour, you'll be happier purchasing reference designs.
> 
> Also, the overclocking potential from a reference design to a custom pcb design was nil on air on water(before the AiB started voltage locking their cards to prevent lesser cards eating into their big brother sales...7950-->Toxic, 7970-->Matrix, etc). When they did that, reference designs pulled even more ahead, cause the VRM set used on them was pretty good by AMD specs. They overclocked enormously, so your only enemies were the temp [email protected]º on air and the voltage wall under water. The Matrix had a beefy VRM section for LN2 but wasn't known as an amazing card all around. We even have one OCN member that split it a-la-Hulk in a fit of rage after many problems, poor overclock and GPUtweak throwing tantrums cause the Matrix was locked to GPUTweak for overclock. Tsm106's avatar is the picture of that split Matrix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People with reference designs purchased on launch day got golden chips regularly


all true, however EK did make a block for the 7970 matrix platinum, they would most likely do the same for the 290x









true custom pcbs can be hit or miss, luckily ive had nothing but luck with custom pcb cards, we will just have to wait and see how the reference cards turn out. One of the reasons i wanted the 7970 matrix so bad was i knew that if i replaced it, i would put it back on the stock air cooler and throw it in a side rig and then it would be beautiful again


----------



## Nonehxc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> all true, however EK did make a block for the 7970 matrix platinum, they would most likely do the same for the 290x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> true custom pcbs can be hit or miss, luckily ive had nothing but luck with custom pcb cards, we will just have to wait and see how the reference cards turn out. One of the reasons i wanted the 7970 matrix so bad was i knew that if i replaced it, i would put it back on the stock air cooler and throw it in a side rig and then it would be beautiful again


Didn't knew EK released a waterblock for the Matrix.









I really want them to pull again those amazing reference designs. Tons of different SKUs, tons of different custom PCBs, ludicrous cooling solutions yet the best of the bunch were Day One cards. Guess AMD knew what they were doing. Lol, I remember getting my VaporX non-voltage locked, moving the sliders on a modded TriXX up to 50% more core and memory+a bit of voltage and launching Heaven Benchmark. Not a sweat. Folk on water had even more fun "Screw you temp wall!Can't touch me














", and many maximized their cards up to 13xx core/19xx memory on water already (Hynix and Samsung memory chips







). A few doing benchmark rounds on [email protected] memory, and the cards didn't break a sweat. So amazing than anything less than +30% OC was considered a dud card and you sir have lost the silicon lottery.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nonehxc*
> 
> Didn't knew EK released a waterblock for the Matrix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want them to pull again those amazing reference designs. Tons of different SKUs, tons of different custom PCBs, ludicrous cooling solutions yet the best of the bunch were Day One cards. Guess AMD knew what they were doing. Lol, I remember getting my VaporX non-voltage locked, moving the sliders on a modded TriXX up to 50% more core and memory+a bit of voltage and launching Heaven Benchmark. Not a sweat. Folk on water had even more fun "Screw you temp wall!Can't touch me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ", and many maximized their cards up to 13xx core/19xx memory on water already (Hynix and Samsung memory chips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). A few doing benchmark rounds on [email protected] memory, and the cards didn't break a sweat. So amazing than anything less than +30% OC was considered a dud card and you sir have lost the silicon lottery.


one of my HIS 7970 cards could easily do 1300+ and was begging for more, too bad titans came out right after i got that card or i would have given it what it wanted


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Hawaii XT (2816 SP) has more than twice the shaders of Pitcairn XT (1280 SP X 2 = 2560 SP, Hawaii Pro).


When you do the mirroring of the Pitcairn core, you have to remove few things = such as one unnecessary PCI-E interface. Free space can be used for Shader units...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> When you do the mirroring of the Pitcairn core, you have to remove few things = such as one unnecessary PCI-E interface. Free space can be used for Shader units...


But 2 of those would give only 2x 24 rops rather than 64 of them.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> When you do the mirroring of the Pitcairn core, you have to remove few things = such as one unnecessary PCI-E interface. Free space can be used for Shader units...
> 
> 
> 
> But 2 of those would give only 2x 24 rops rather than 64 of them.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters, it isn't done that way anyway...

That's like saying "an 8350 is just two A10-6800k's minus GPUs and plus L3 Cache!". No, that's just wrong. The 8350 is just 4 modules, it isn't "made out of" anything.

The glory of scalable architectures... It's like people have never built with Lego before.


----------



## Ricey20

Leaked presentation for 290 series.

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> It features 64 Raster Operators which are twice the amount featured on the Radeon HD 7970.
> 
> Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/#ixzz2hDmX389p


----------



## Offler

Well, I havent seen 100 percent confirmed source regarding R9 290x... (official statement, no leak)

64 ROPs make sense to me because of 512bit bus. On HD 7870 32 Rops had nice fillrate with 256bit bus. Doubling ROPs and doubling memory bandwidth in same scale is quite reasonable. Also it makes sense when compared to Titan...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Leaked presentation for 290 series.
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/


What the GPU14 presentation should've been like.

Looking at those performance numbers I was correct about 4K uhd @ 120Hz being do able.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Well, I havent seen 100 percent confirmed source regarding R9 290x... (official statement, no leak)
> 
> 64 ROPs make sense to me because of 512bit bus. On HD 7870 32 Rops had nice fillrate with 256bit bus. Doubling ROPs and doubling memory bandwidth in same scale is quite reasonable. Also it makes sense when compared to Titan...


In a couple of pic marketing for 290s it says *2x the ROPs*. So it looks confirmed. This should help settle some dust.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> In a couple of pic marketing for 290s it says *2x the ROPs*. So it looks confirmed. This should help settle some dust.


Agree, all signs direct to such configuration, but still we can only speculate...


----------



## Yvese

I guess someone mixed up the the 6 with the 4 in previous leaked specs ( 44 rops when it was 64







)

It's interesting that the 290 is the same as the 290x but with 300ish less SPs. Very interested in performance of that card if specs are true.

Who knows, maybe the leaked benchmarks were for the 290


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> In a couple of pic marketing for 290s it says *2x the ROPs*. So it looks confirmed


Where do you guys see those pics?


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Where do you guys see those pics?


http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/


----------



## anticommon

$649 launch price looks nice. Now to see if it will launch with aftermarket coolers and BF4 bundled. If so then I might not even bother opening my classy coming in the mail...


----------



## Durquavian

With 64 ROPs the performance picture has become a bit more complete, Looks like the top tier now is definitely AMD 290X.


----------



## DzillaXx

I highly doubt it has 64ROPs

44 is much much much more likely


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I highly doubt it has 64ROPs
> 
> 44 is much much much more likely


those leaker, they could have mess up with GCN unit.

290x is 44 GCN CU, ROP is 64 = 512bit = make sense.

pitcrain is 210mm2, twice of pitcrain is 2560sp + 64ROP + 512bit, = 420mm2. I dont know how they manage to fit an additional 300+Sp on the same die lol


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I highly doubt it has 64ROPs
> 
> 44 is much much much more likely


Doubt all you want. 64 is in all the slides, so not speculatuion. http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> those leaker, they could have mess up with GCN unit.
> 
> 290x is 44 GCN CU, ROP is 64 = 512bit = make sense.
> 
> pitcrain is 210mm2, twice of pitcrain is 2560sp + 64ROP + 512bit, = 420mm2. I dont know how they manage to fit an additional 300+Sp on the same die lol


Mentioned that before. When you "mirror" Pitcairn have to cut down parts which are required to be present only once. Such as PCI-E interface and even Crossfire bridge interface this time. Then fill free space with SPs. Every other part of Pitcairn (Vram controllers, ROPs and TMUs) is then doubled. Then you have "new" core with specs which can compete Titan, and are similar to leaks...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I highly doubt it has 64ROPs
> 
> 44 is much much much more likely


Pretty much confirmed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> those leaker, they could have mess up with GCN unit.
> 
> 290x is 44 GCN CU, ROP is 64 = 512bit = make sense.
> 
> pitcrain is 210mm2, twice of pitcrain is 2560sp + 64ROP + 512bit, = 420mm2. I dont know how they manage to fit an additional 300+Sp on the same die lol


SHDL and better layout


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Pretty much confirmed
> SHDL and better layout


Well AMD sure can work magic
You know Alatar gonna be surprised









If true gonna make Nvidia look stupid for raving about being superior 4K cards, when they get beat out by AMD's smaller chip.

Pretty nice treat non the less

If anything about the rumored performance of the card is true it is slightly behind a titan clock for clock. GTX780 hasn't got a chance, Nvidia better at least price match AMD if they really want to make money.


----------



## szeged

its not like 64 rops happened overnight and now leaked benchs are gonna improve, that just means the leaked benches were with 64 rops instead of the original rumored amount.


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Well AMD sure can work magic
> You know Alatar gonna be surprised
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If true gonna make Nvidia look stupid for raving about being superior 4K cards, when they get beat out by AMD's smaller chip.
> 
> Pretty nice treat non the less
> 
> If anything about the rumored performance of the card is true it is slightly behind a titan clock for clock. GTX780 hasn't got a chance, Nvidia better at least price match AMD if they really want to make money.


My 780 Lighting begs to differ.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> My 780 Lighting begs to differ.


Personally it would be like the 7970 and gtx680

Your gonna need like 1400+ on the core just to match a 290x @ 1250
I bet

And when you start pushing high amounts of MSAA or other intensive AA methods and or High Resolutions The 290X will clearly be the better matched one.

Personally the only card that will out do the 290x in the OC game will probably be the Titan, and only if it can clock higher.


----------



## Clocksmith

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> My 780 Lighting begs to differ.


Oh so you got imba lighting? Does it illuminate your whole case or something?


----------



## PureBlackFire

These cards won't show their true might at paltry resolutions like 1440p and lower. These are for 4K/eyefinity resolutions.


----------



## Archngamin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> If anything about the rumored performance of the card is true it is slightly behind a titan clock for clock. GTX780 hasn't got a chance, Nvidia better at least price match AMD if they really want to make money.


Except this is AMD playing catch up to Nvidia, not the other way around. Nvidia made plenty of money in the 6 months the unchallenged 780 has been on the market, not to mention the Titan. Anyone saying Nvidia is in trouble hasn't been paying attention to the market for more than the past few weeks. AMD had plenty of time to advanced past the 7xx series but the longer they take the closer the 8xx series is and another half year + of unchecked Nvidia dominance yet again.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archngamin*
> 
> Except this is AMD playing catch up to Nvidia, not the other way around. Nvidia made plenty of money in the 6 months the unchallenged 780 has been on the market, not to mention the Titan. Anyone saying Nvidia is in trouble hasn't been paying attention to the market for more than the past few weeks. AMD had plenty of time to advanced past the 7xx series but the longer they take the closer the 8xx series is and another half year + of unchecked Nvidia dominance yet again.


780 has been out for 3-4 months not 6. Titan out in Feb.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archngamin*
> 
> Except this is AMD playing catch up to Nvidia, not the other way around. Nvidia made plenty of money in the 6 months the unchallenged 780 has been on the market, not to mention the Titan. Anyone saying Nvidia is in trouble hasn't been paying attention to the market for more than the past few weeks. AMD had plenty of time to advanced past the 7xx series but the longer they take the closer the 8xx series is and another half year + of unchecked Nvidia dominance yet again.


780 had a 4.5 month head start. Titan was 9 months...but cost $1000. Also remember the 7970 really has had the longest recent performance crown (1 year 1 month from release to titan.)

Unless nvidia has a maxwell 28nm (hint:they don't on the high end) we won't be seeing new nvidia chips until at least 2h 2014. I think next gen, releases from each company will be closely timed.


----------



## Archngamin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> 780 has been out for 3-4 months not 6. Titan out in Feb.


Well closer to 5 months once the 290x is released Titan will be out for over 8 months. The point remains the same that unless AMD stops playing catch up Nvidia will always have a huge chunk of the year to themselves leading to price markups from lack of competition. I'd rather them compete directly the entire year instead of 4-6 months.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> 780 had a 4.5 month head start. Titan was 9 months...but cost $1000. Also remember the 7970 really has had the longest recent performance crown (1 year 1 month from release to titan.)
> 
> Unless nvidia has a maxwell 28nm (hint:they don't on the high end) we won't be seeing new nvidia chips until at least 2h 2014. I think next gen, releases from each company will be closely timed.


Unless AMD gets their butts in gear Nvidia will still launch way ahead of them.


----------



## Stay Puft

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=0110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID

Sapphire 290X listed for 591


----------



## supergamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=0110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID
> 
> Sapphire 290X listed for 591


Whoa!









Manufactured In: Switzerland


----------



## Myst-san

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archngamin*
> 
> Unless AMD gets their butts in gear Nvidia will still launch way ahead of them.


What catch up? It was Nvidia play catch the past couple of generations. And Nvidia force the 700 series on AMD while they were waiting for 22/20nm. So that made them release the R9/R7.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Archngamin*
> 
> Well closer to 5 months once the 290x is released Titan will be out for over 8 months. The point remains the same that unless AMD stops playing catch up Nvidia will always have a huge chunk of the year to themselves leading to price markups from lack of competition. I'd rather them compete directly the entire year instead of 4-6 months.
> Unless AMD gets their butts in gear Nvidia will still launch way ahead of them.


Considering both amd and nvidia were planning for a late 2013/early 2014 20nm arch since atleast the 7970 release (if not before) i would imagine both have had plenty of extra time to finalize their designs before tapout. It becomes more of a marketing/product stack strategy once 20nm becomes mass producible for them.

I would imagine this is why both nvidia and amd rebraded much of their last gen this year. There is little point and little to be gained from creating new asics on the same process (talking mid-range/low high end (770/7970 and down). Especially since 20nm will allow them a much larger jump interms of power consumption and performance per mm^2. On the high end and extreme low end is where we see new chips because a new gen kind of demands it for obvious reasons.

20nm will see whole new product stacks just like 28nm did; since both companies are more or less behind the 8ball with 20nm, i think we will see a similar launch as with 28nm where both companies released new products only 3 months apart.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=0110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID
> 
> Sapphire 290X listed for 591


And shop blt usually overprices on preorders/oos items. Imagine a $550 290x and a $450 290....pretty sure the world would implode.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> And shop blt usually overprices on preorders/oos items. Imagine a $550 290x and a $450 290....pretty sure the world would implode.


my head certainly would implode, if they could pull off the leaked rumored bench scores for $550, my head would definitely need to be swept up off the floor and walls.


----------



## Archngamin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Myst-san*
> 
> What catch up? It was Nvidia play catch the past couple of generations. And Nvidia force the 700 series on AMD while they were waiting for 22/20nm. So that made them release the R9/R7.


Nvidia "forced" just as much as AMD did. Obviously the market wanted new cards, why make them wait? I'm glad we didn't have to wait for 1h 2014 to upgrade from cards made in Q4 2011.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> my head certainly would implode, if they could pull off the leaked rumored bench scores for $550, my head would definitely need to be swept up off the floor and walls.


They have the 290 listed now as well

R9 290

http://www.shopblt.com/item/sapphire-technology-21227-00-40g-sap-radeon-r9/u150_212270040g.html

[/B]


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> 780 has been out for 3-4 months not 6. Titan out in Feb.


Nvidia will be always more profitable because of its ability to make good professional grade gpus. The 780 is a very high leakage reject of the professional gpus which means the die itself does not cost them that much. The titan is a reject of the K6000. But, manufactoring costs really means nothing. Nvidia have to make a good profit on these cards to recover all the R&D prices. The manufactoring cost is only a part of the total cost. You cannnot simply uses the margin of the mere manufactoring cost to call the cards overpriced.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> They have the 290 listed now as well
> 
> R9 290
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/item/sapphire-technology-21227-00-40g-sap-radeon-r9/u150_212270040g.html
> 
> [/B]


There is something fishy about that site, why would the 290x only be an extra $55 more?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Well AMD sure can work magic
> You know Alatar gonna be surprised
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If true gonna make Nvidia look stupid for raving about being superior 4K cards, when they get beat out by AMD's smaller chip.
> 
> Pretty nice treat non the less
> 
> *If anything about the rumored performance of the card is true it is slightly behind a titan clock for clock. GTX780 hasn't got a chance, Nvidia better at least price match AMD if they really want to make money*.


Only way to compete though it would be very stupid to do such a thing since AMD can produce these on the cheap compared to the oversized core that is GK110.


----------



## KaiserFrederick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> These cards won't show their true might at paltry resolutions like 1440p and lower. These are for 4K/eyefinity resolutions.


Curse you PureBlackFire, now I want to upgrade my 1440p monitor to 4k so my 290X won't feel under appreciated...


----------



## altsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaiserFrederick*
> 
> Curse you PureBlackFire, now I want to upgrade my 1440p monitor to 4k so my 290X won't feel under appreciated...


It is a cruel cycle.... Upgrade one part, other part seems lacking. Upgrade that part, another part seems lacking. Rinse and repeat until you bank account dies


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Leaked presentation for 290 series.
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-radeon-r9-290-series-official-presentation-leaked-4k-gaming-performance-unveiled/


Notice how the 4k performance graph has two spelling errors yet the other slides with much harder words to spell have none.

It would be great if the graph were real but that would mean the 290x is much faster than the 7990 and it's already been stated by people who have the cards but are under NDA that it's not as fast as 7990.

If it does turn out real, I'll have one for myself before Xmas to keep my 780s company.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Notice how the 4k performance graph has two spelling errors yet the other slides with much harder words to spell have none.
> 
> It would be great if the graph were real but that would mean the 290x is much faster than the 7990 and it's already been stated by people who have the cards but are under NDA that it's not as fast as 7990.
> 
> If it does turn out real, I'll have one for myself before Xmas to keep my 780s company.


assuming those results are at stock, since every review site ever loves to only do stock tests, if the 290x is faster than a 7990, then there is some serious sorcery at play here.


----------



## Durquavian

Not sure here, but want to point out the real difference between the 7990 and 290X is the 384-512 bit bus. At higher resolutions that would have a fairly large impact. Not sure by how much though.


----------



## szeged

true but that 7990 is no slouch either, i own two, and they are great cards, but i still find it hard to believe that the 290x can beat it, ive tested it vs my titans 1 on 1 and 7990 spanks the titan


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> true but that 7990 is no slouch either, i own two, and they are great cards, but i still find it hard to believe that the 290x can beat it, ive tested it vs my titans 1 on 1 and 7990 spanks the titan


There are small differences between 7990 and R9-290. Even in case if you perfectly match their frequencies and total amount of SP/TMU/ROPs the crossfired card will most likely use at least 2 rendering threads from CPU, while single R9-290 will use single rendering thread.

Both configs have advantages and disadvantages of their own... Single card can be easier capped by CPU, while Crossfired cards have sync problems (known as stuttering). Crossfire can utilize more of your cpu cores, while single card is less complicated and more reliable solution.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> There are small differences between 7990 and R9-290. Even in case if you perfectly match their frequencies and total amount of SP/TMU/ROPs the crossfired card will most likely use at least 2 rendering threads from CPU, while single R9-290 will use single rendering thread.
> 
> Both configs have advantages and disadvantages of their own... Single card can be easier capped by CPU, while Crossfired cards have sync problems (known as stuttering). Crossfire can utilize more of your cpu cores, while single card is less complicated and more reliable solution.


There is the 384 bit bus compared to the 512 bit bus. At 4K that would be a deciding factor and allow for a huge diff in FPS where as at say 1080p having the same two cards position reversed in performance.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> There is the 384 bit bus compared to the 512 bit bus. At 4K that would be a deciding factor and allow for a huge diff in FPS where as at say 1080p having the same two cards position reversed in performance.


I forgot about that, you are right. Anyways i still use "only" 1920x1080 and I dont plan to upgrade for next few years.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> I forgot about that, you are right. Anyways i still use "only" 1920x1080 and I dont plan to upgrade for next few years.


me either, though it has less to do with planning and more to do with AFFORD


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> There is something fishy about that site, why would the 290x only be an extra $55 more?


I've never ordered from them but plenty have without incident


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> They have the 290 listed now as well
> 
> R9 290
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/item/sapphire-technology-21227-00-40g-sap-radeon-r9/u150_212270040g.html
> 
> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> There is something fishy about that site, why would the 290x only be an extra $55 more?
Click to expand...

Shop BLT has a good record of being 10% higher or so when early listing products, and they tend to do it with Intel, Nvidia, and AMD products.

Given Hawaii's rumored die size of low 400mm^2 range and the rumors of it competing with Titan, and GK110 being 551mm^2, it seems to me like AMD could still make a ton of money off of 290 and 290 if they are priced $449 and $559 respectively.

All the FUD that's been going around with AMD (drivers, Origin PC, etc) makes me think that it's Nvidia and such trying to cut off AMD before they get too far ahead.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Shop BLT has a good record of being 10% higher or so when early listing products, and they tend to do it with Intel, Nvidia, and AMD products.
> 
> Given Hawaii's rumored die size of low 400mm^2 range and the rumors of it competing with Titan, and GK110 being 551mm^2, it seems to me like AMD could still make a ton of money off of 290 and 290 if they are priced $449 and $559 respectively.
> 
> All the FUD that's been going around with AMD (drivers, Origin PC, etc) makes me think that it's Nvidia and such trying to cut off AMD before they get too far ahead.


If it comes out at under $600... I don't know what I'll do but I'm sure it will be embarrassing.


----------



## TormenteD

Now I'm confused.. I thought MSRP for Europe was 649 EUR. That has to be either fake or the biggest ripoff in history lol- sub $600 vs 649 EUR that's even worse than Nvidia pricing


----------



## TamaDrumz76

Posted in other thread as well...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758

Now, that's a bargain!!!1! In for quad-fire at that price.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TamaDrumz76*
> 
> Posted in other thread as well...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758
> 
> Now, that's a bargain!!!1! In for quad-fire at that price.


And 5.62 for shipping!


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TamaDrumz76*
> 
> Posted in other thread as well...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758
> 
> Now, that's a bargain!!!1! In for quad-fire at that price.


I dont see a price. or am i blind?


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taint3dBulge*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TamaDrumz76*
> 
> Posted in other thread as well...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758
> 
> Now, that's a bargain!!!1! In for quad-fire at that price.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see a price. or am i blind?
Click to expand...

It was $9,999.99 earlier, newegg was messing with us.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Oh ya, lol hit F12 in chrome and look down the code and you get.

i class="price-current " itemprop="price" content="9999.99" id="singleFinalPrice">


----------



## Anonymoos3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serothis*
> 
> I really don't think mantel is a game changer. I don't think consoles will use it that extensively. Consider what mantle actually is. it's a more effecient version of dx. dx is only used because there's an nearly infinite set of hardware combination out there. On consoles you have a huge group of customers all running the exact same hardware. which means you can more effieciently program at low levels to get the most out of that hardware. So for consoles mantle is kind of moot.
> 
> I really hope mantle works but I'm highly skeptical. It's not going to live up to the hype and it's success largely depends on if amd can convince developers to use it. And from a developer's point of view I don't see the motivation, outside of sponsorship from amd. And amd can't pay every developer to use their api.


As someone else said Mantle is free. And for GCN cards it will be used the same as in consoles, giving direct access to the GPU (which right now are powerhouses) just like in consoles. DX blocks that, so does GL. IF you want you customers happy and get them the MOST performance for their hardware and buck, use Mantle. And you don't think developers will use this? Battlefield 4 is using this (of course it was thought of by some guy in DICE, butttt why not? It's a great idea), and I BET Crytek would love to use this, so they go overboard with there graphics and have the direct access to run the graphics.


----------



## Hattifnatten

Kaveri is going to be so awsome with mantle


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hattifnatten*
> 
> Kaveri is going to be so awsome with mantle


Ah the magical Mantle. That few know what it is. They'll think it makes them coffee until it's released.


----------



## steelkevin

I just found the following dogtag while looking through them:



Do you guys think this means it'll be included for R9 owners or maybe it's only for the BF4 + 290X bundle ?


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelkevin*
> 
> I just found the following dogtag while looking through them:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you guys think this means it'll be included for R9 owners or maybe it's only for the BF4 + 290X bundle ?


i would love to use that dog tag


----------

