# Water cooling guide for noobs (Always updated)



## Juggalo23451

*Water Cooling Guide
By Juggalo23451*
Video explanation link as well as where to get wc parts below the tutorial


Well I have been water cooling for a lil over 2 yrs now so I would figure I would help and make a guide. So let's get started

*What is water cooling*. More or less it is the same way how your car's radiator works to cool your engine except on a smaller scale .

*Do not mix metals*
You can have
copper, nickel, brass, stainless steel in the same loop
If you have any metal like this do not use something that is *aluminum*. Doing so will cause *Galvanic corrosion* which is very bad

*How much is it going to cost me*- Depends on what you want to cool. The average cost for a cpu only loop is generally around 200-$$$. It will cost more if you want to add graphics cards, mosfets and etc. there is no real reason to water cool your ram,hdd. I don't see the point of water cooling your north bridge/south bridge either all it does is add restriction to your loop.If you want better temps on your chipset remove the old thermal paste with 90% Isopropyl alcohol or higher. Use a q-tip for this or a micro fiber cloth. Then put on new thermal paste like the ones listed below. but if you are going for insane overclocks go for it

What parts are needed? I will tell you the parts and suggest some parts as well.

*Tubing* and lingo you may see(get 10ft for cpu only,15ft or more if adding more rads blocks and etc

*The most common sizes for tubing for water cooling are*
3/8 inch
7/16 inch-people use this size tubing on 1/2 barbs for a tighter fit/seal
1/2 inch
*Lingo*
ID= Inner diameter
OD= Outer diameter
Primochill,tygon, masterkleer (budget)
Use tube cutters, razor or scissors to cut the tubing.

*
Dyes* Do not use any dyes or additives. If you want color get colored tubing

*Reservoir* ( always higher then the pump)- holds water

For reses it is all about preference really, You have the Swiftech Micro revision res for like 20 bucks or you could spend up to 200 bucks on a res to.

*Pump*(always below the res)

check instructions to make sure you know where the inlet is and outlet- This is the whole heart of you water cooling loop. Pushes the water in you loop around. Getting the right pump is critical don't get the right pump may get poor flow in your loop/poor temps to. They are usually measured by gph(gallons per hour) PSI and GPH are important when choosing a pump.
MCP355,MCP655, OCZ hydro flow(budget),jingway,
Note: The mcp355(has 3/8 barbs) is slightly better than the mcp655(1/2 barbs)
*
Pump top*-

Dont want to use 3/8 barbs on a mcp355 get a top and choose what ever barb or compression fitting you like. Getting a op will help maximize the efficiency of the pump.
(XSPC,EK)

*Water Blocks*(center is always the inlet)

There are great water blocks out there for the CPU and Gpus. If you are going for the absolute best one out there. *Then the Koolance 380 is the king right now.
XSPC Raystorm water block(budget) . XSPC for gpus as well. HK,aquagrafx,EK, These blocks will probably(+or- a degree) perform about the same(matter of looks really)
*
*Thermal Paste*-

MX3, MX4, OCZ Freeze, Shin Etsu, Indigo Extreme(the best but really expensive)

*Barbs*-

*you will see g1/4 and g3/8.* That is simply the thread size. What size barbs you get will depict on what size tubing you would want.
*bitspower, enzotech,koolance*
*
Compression fittings- Makes your loop look cleaner.*

Has two parts the barb and a collar. The collar goes on the tubing first. Then mount the tubing on the barb. Screw down collar all the way.(video below) make sure to get the same id and od fittings as your tubing

*Radiators*(removes heat from you loop)-

inlet/outlet does not mater
Depending on what you want to cool will depend on the size of rad you want
Example a 240 radiators can cool most cpus., 360 rad for cpu and a gpu
*Best rad right now is the Swiftech MCR(loud setup)
Best rad(low noise) Alphacool Nexxos UT60
Budget rad Xspc EX performs like the rx but cheaper and thinner*
P.s You can use a 77 Bonneville rad I believe if you wanted to.

*Fans(removes heat from the rad) and static pressure*

What is static pressure. It is the measurement of air to be push through a restrictive object. So the better the static pressure the better the fan for your radiator.

*Panaflo,delata, Kazes 120x120x38 are great for rads like the GTX*
*Gentle typhoons (AP-15) are great for rad like the Sr-1 and RX series rads*. Why you ask the noise to cfm is great and it has good static pressure as well.
*Yate Loons are a great budget fan The xspc 1650rpm fan will perform better than yates and they are cheap*

*Fan Controller*
(controls the rpms of a fan)

Want to quiet down your set up getting a fan controller can help with that

*Clamps* (secure them in the center of the barb)-

use clamps, zips, or worm clamps to secure your tubing

*Coolant*- Distilled water is all you need.
Pt nuke as well to prevent growth in your loop

/ or just get a
silver coil.


*I have all the parts now what?*

*1. Loop order, I usually do res-pump-rad-cpu-res for example, but you do not have to do that order just make sure you have the res before the pump

2. Bust out a scratch piece of paper and pen. Draw a rectangle representing you case then. Draw another rectangle representing your mb. Location is key for a water cooling loop.
Draw some sketches on how you want your loop to go.

3. Mount everything up.

4. Start from one point in your wc loop.with the tubing attached to a barb,
take the excess and move it to the next point to your loop then cut.(Attach tubing)Repeat the process until you are done.

5. Take out loop of you case(up to you)

6. Hook the pump to your power supply(make sure nothing else is
hooked up to the psu)

7. Take a paper clip and put it in the green wire and connect any black wire. this will create a load to turn on your psu. Make sure the psu unplugged before doing this.
I used a wire in this pic but a paper clip is way easier

8. Fill up the res with distilled water all the way to the top with a funnel

9. Turn on the psu let the water go to about have way then refill the res.

10. repeat the process again until you do not need to fill the res up any more

Bubbles- To get rid of bubbles tilt your case side to side, back and forward
Leak testing- I say a good 8-12hrs should be enough. You can do more if you would like.

Hook up everything/install wc loop if outside of case and enjoy your temps.
*
*Maintenance
It is recommended that you do this 6 months - 1 year.(some people do it longer)
I would personally replace the tubing at this time.
Check your blocks, they might have some oxidation on them.
To remedy this issue if it is a cpu block or other blocks, I just soak it in some lemon juice for a couple of hours. I use a old toothbrush to clean the items.
For the rad I use 1 part white vinegar and 6 (or more) parts water and let it soak for a couple of hours.

If you are cleaning you rad for the first time before being put in a loop use isopropyl alcohol 91% or higher and let it soak for a couple of hours.

If you do anything above make sure you rinse out your items several times with distilled water.*

*Vids*
*Water cooling basics*



*How to set up and install a water cooling loop 4 parts*



*Compression fitting*



*Water Cooling Cases*



*Optional
*
Terminal Block - You can us this for a 12v or 5v depending on what you need. Can help in cable management as well












Items needed
Wire Stripper
spare wire- two different colors preferred
Spade connectors
Terminal block

*Where to get wc parts*
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/7848-stores-buy-watercooling-gear.html
*Dont feel like going custom get a XSPC Rasa Kit*
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/882408-official-xspc-rasa-750-rs-rx120.html
Here is some info that you guys/gals may find help full on your water cooling adventure. Credit goes to skinnieelabs,Martin120, and bundymania
*rad comparison*
*The Higher the Better the rad is.*

*Pump comparison
The higher the better*

*Mcp355 top comparison*


*Cpu blocks, The lower the better*









If any additional help is need please feel free to ask a question here


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## Xraven771

Nice guide , needed something like this a wile back xD


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## AMOCO

you forgot Koolance:http://www.koolance.com/default.php

nice guide


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xraven771;11984936*
> Nice guide , needed something like this a wile back xD


Thanks if you needed help you could of contacted me. I am on aim,yahoo,msn and etc like 24/7 practically


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMOCO;11984956*
> you forgot Koolance:http://www.koolance.com/default.php
> 
> nice guide


I know there is koolance but to me there just to expensive. I am going for the best out there and the best budget.


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## AMOCO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451;11985059*
> I know there is koolance but to me there just to expensive. I am going for the best out there and the best budget.


i was just pointing them out because of there motherboard waterblocks.


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMOCO;11985077*
> i was just pointing them out because of there motherboard waterblocks.


Yeah but I point out there is not need to cool your mb chipset. In the beginning of the thread. I am editing this thread to at the moment as well


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## Juggalo23451

I think I am done editing for the most part.


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## Juggalo23451

If any one has any question pls let me know


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## ranerX3

really nice guide









could really helped me when I started reading about water cooling a month ago xD


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranerX3;12030263*
> really nice guide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> could really helped me when I started reading about water cooling a month ago xD


Like I said before you could of contacted me if you needed help


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## ttaylor0024

Shouldnt it go pump - water blocks - rad - res?


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttaylor0024;12032170*
> Shouldnt it go pump - water blocks - rad - res?


pls read in bold I have all the parts now what. Note number one.


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## ttaylor0024

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451;12032300*
> pls read in bold I have all the parts now what. Note number one.


Gotcha. I just thought it would be more efficient...


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ttaylor0024;12032331*
> Gotcha. I just thought it would be more efficient...


yep, loop order doesn't not matter that much. the loop will reach an equilibrium


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## Juggalo23451

added pics to the tutorial


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## Lune

Your guide helped a lot







Too bad I can't rep you!

Subscribed tho


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lune;12040486*
> Your guide helped a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad I can't rep you!
> 
> Subscribed tho


I am glad the guide helped you out


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## Juggalo23451

bump Just making sure every body gets a chance to read this


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## liljoejoe54

Awesome writeup! I have the H70 now but am looking to do a custom setup in the near future and this helps out a lot. Thanks!


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## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liljoejoe54;12271241*
> Awesome writeup! I have the H70 now but am looking to do a custom setup in the near future and this helps out a lot. Thanks!


Glad to be of help.


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## trinstac

change "guide" in title to "is" temporarily, watch people come in the thread ready to RAGE!


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## sabawballs

very very informative! thanks TS!..

im planning to go to WC now and i need all the infos that i can get. i just have a question though, why dont use dye? since i see alot of people (well here in my country) that uses dye on their rigs and it actually looks cool. what is the performance degradation of this? or even the danger of this?

TIA!


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## ajmidd12

I "think" dye ends up discolouring your components. Not 100% sure on this just going by what I have read on the internet. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Great writeup it will definitely help me attempt my first watercooled build


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## Arksniper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sabawballs;12552708*
> very very informative! thanks TS!..
> 
> im planning to go to WC now and i need all the infos that i can get. i just have a question though, why dont use dye? since i see alot of people (well here in my country) that uses dye on their rigs and it actually looks cool. what is the performance degradation of this? or even the danger of this?
> 
> TIA!


Many say that after time the dye separates from the water and builds up in components such as your gpu/rad/cpu block and damages them or as stated they can stain components as well. Some people have good luck and have none of these issues others have these issues that take an extended time and a lot of effort to clean or are even forced to buy parts.

In the end it is your choice but most people opt for uv tubing and distilled water so they need not worry about these issues.


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## grazz1984

Hiya mate, is there anychance you or someone here could do me a diagram of how my loop needs to go.. I have one 240mm rad in the top of my case one 240mm in bottom, then ek multioption res, Swiftech MCP655 12V Multi-speed Water Pump, cpu, gpu, i just need to kno what order the tubing need to go please.

Thanks you


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## Arksniper

You want pump/res > rad > cpu > rad > gpu > pump/res
or pump/res > cpu > rad > gpu > rad > pump/res really they are the same set up although the first might give you better temps. I set up mine like the first one.


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## grazz1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arksniper;12634097*
> You want pump/res > rad > cpu > rad > gpu > pump/res
> or pump/res > cpu > rad > gpu > rad > pump/res really they are the same set up although the first might give you better temps. I set up mine like the first one.


You dont have a pic do you? just so ive got a map of it please. first time watercooling


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## grazz1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grazz1984;12634128*
> You dont have a pic do you? just so ive got a map of it please. first time watercooling


I have two 240mm rads aswell uve only done the guide for one rad lol


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## Arksniper

Just a quick paint sketch for set up 1










Pump/res to rad top
rad top to cpu block
cpu block to rad bottom
rad bottom to gpu
gpu to pump res

edit: For a much cleaner loop you can go pump/res > rad top > cpu > gpu >rad bottom > pump/res should give about the same temp readings with less tubing dont know why I didnt think of it in the first place.


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## grazz1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arksniper;12634190*
> Just a quick paint sketch for set up 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pump/res to rad top
> rad top to cpu block
> cpu block to rad bottom
> rad bottom to gpu
> gpu to pump res
> 
> edit: For a much cleaner loop you can go pump/res > rad top > cpu > gpu >rad bottom > pump/res should give about the same temp readings with less tubing dont know why I didnt think of it in the first place.


Exellent thanks for all the help just two questions, which is inlet and wich is outlet, and my pump isnt built into my res its seperate. Sorry to be such a pain but i want to get it rite lol


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## grazz1984

How does this look, isit rite?


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## Arksniper

Looks good to me. For rads in and out doesn't matter which is in and out for cpu block usually the in is in the center of the block and out is closer to an edge i know this is true for EK blocks. The instructions come with the cpu block to tell you which is in and out same for the gpu block.


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## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arksniper;12635480*
> Looks good to me. For rads in and out doesn't matter which is in and out for cpu block usually the in is in the center of the block and out is closer to an edge i know this is true for EK blocks. The instructions come with the cpu block to tell you which is in and out same for the gpu block.


Actually, on the Black Ice GTX rads it does matter. General rule of thumb is that while holding the rad up with the barbs facing you, the right barb would be your inlet. You can see inside and notice that it is a bit more shallow than the left. (I noticed a 3 degree drop when changing to this after reading around, and had it backwards!)









Edit: Not to take anything away from Juggalo, when I was catching up on watercooling after a long hiatus, I did find his posts and videos quite informative.


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## Arksniper

Ah I have not used anything outside of RASA so i suppose there is always the exception. I just follow the directions that come with its the easiest i find lol.


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## supremo0824

Nice guide btw
Ill use some of your tips when i attempt my first custom WC build
I also use this nice flow generator as a diagram for my flow sequence
http://extreme.outervision.com/flowdesigner.jsp
hope this helps
Oh and after building your first custom water cooling build, please post some photos of your build here so the thread master can further assist you should you had done something wrong or maybe help other people as well for some ideas.
=)


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## Juggalo23451

Bump I am seeing alot of questions that can be answered in this guide


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## PoopaScoopa

excellent guide bro


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## Juggalo23451

Bump again I am seeing questions that can be easily answered with this guide.


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## MoCo Man

Very helpful for the Newbie (ME) to WC, thanks!!!


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## Ironwolf1974

Ok Im on the EK site, and Im just plain confused.

I guess I need to read more.

Ive got in my cart blocks for both of my video cards, block for CPU and 6 fittings, along with backplates for both vid cards.

Now I need - Pump, Reservoir, two radiators, tubing and such?

Im so lost! lol


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## Ironwolf1974

EK-PSC Fitting 12mm - G1/4 Black
Laing DDC-Pump 12V DDC-1Plus (MCP 355)
EK-Supreme HF - Acetal
EK-FC580 GTX+ - Acetal
EK-CoolStream RAD XT (240)

Ive got these in my cart now at EK waterblock store. I need tubing, fittings are up there, still a little confused. Radiator is NOT a reservoir right? So now I need one of those?


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## superhead91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironwolf1974;13490560*
> EK-PSC Fitting 12mm - G1/4 Black
> Laing DDC-Pump 12V DDC-1Plus (MCP 355)
> EK-Supreme HF - Acetal
> EK-FC580 GTX+ - Acetal
> EK-CoolStream RAD XT (240)
> 
> Ive got these in my cart now at EK waterblock store. I need tubing, fittings are up there, still a little confused. Radiator is NOT a reservoir right? So now I need one of those?


No a radiator is not a reservoir. No offense, but if you don't know that, maybe you should do a little more research before you build a custom loop. Also, you don't have to get everything from EK. There are lots of sites that sell watercooling supplies and you can probably find better prices on different brands.


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## Ironwolf1974

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superhead91;13490587*
> No a radiator is not a reservoir. No offense, but if you don't know that, maybe you should do a little more research before you build a custom loop. Also, you don't have to get everything from EK. There are lots of sites that sell watercooling supplies and you can probably find better prices on different brands.


I KINDA knew it, but again alot of the videos can be confusing with so many different options out there. I mean how do I learn if I dont set one up? There are kits on the EK site, and of course IVe found many others from the sites listed in the forum posting.

But the only thing Im sure of is the blocks for the 580s, since they say it specifically. Is a block for a 1156 working fine for my 1155 sandybridge? And so on.


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## superhead91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironwolf1974;13490632*
> I KINDA knew it, but again alot of the videos can be confusing with so many different options out there. I mean how do I learn if I dont set one up? There are kits on the EK site, and of course IVe found many others from the sites listed in the forum posting.
> 
> But the only thing Im sure of is the blocks for the 580s, since they say it specifically. Is a block for a 1156 working fine for my 1155 sandybridge? And so on.


I'm not trying to discourage you at all from getting a loop, in fact I'm in the process of putting one together now, I just advise you to be patient, do your research, and plan ahead. Cruise the OCN for sale section. I've gotten my pump and my Crosshair IV mobo block from there for much cheaper than I would've elsewhere. I'm also getting my fans cheaper through an OCN group buy that's in progress right now. I'm just trying to help you out here. If you haven't already, sub the OCN watercooling club thread and just see what setups people have and ask questions if you have them. Good luck!


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## Ironwolf1974

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superhead91;13490676*
> I'm not trying to discourage you at all from getting a loop, in fact I'm in the process of putting one together now, I just advise you to be patient, do your research, and plan ahead. Cruise the OCN for sale section. I've gotten my pump and my Crosshair IV mobo block from there for much cheaper than I would've elsewhere. I'm also getting my fans cheaper through an OCN group buy that's in progress right now. I'm just trying to help you out here. If you haven't already, sub the OCN watercooling club thread and just see what setups people have and ask questions if you have them. Good luck!


You cant discourage me more then I am right now! Its all very confusing. Ive watched all the videos here, watched all of Dazmodes videos. Read the entire thing twice now.

Just making sure the parts I like/want are what works with my components is wahts confusing me. I understand setting up the loop, the ID/OD of the tubing etc etc.

Ill check out that thread also.


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## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironwolf1974;13490632*
> I KINDA knew it, but again alot of the videos can be confusing with so many different options out there. I mean how do I learn if I dont set one up? There are kits on the EK site, and of course IVe found many others from the sites listed in the forum posting.
> 
> But the only thing Im sure of is the blocks for the 580s, since they say it specifically. Is a block for a 1156 working fine for my 1155 sandybridge? And so on.


Don't let the choices intimidate you. You're bound to make a few mistakes early on, but that can be said with any new hobby.







The 1156 water blocks do indeed fit all of the 1155 boards with regards to CPU blocks. Chipset blocks are a different story as they are made to meet the exact model and manufacturer. (The general consensus is that chipset blocks are a waste anyway.)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironwolf1974;13490719*
> You cant discourage me more then I am right now! Its all very confusing. Ive watched all the videos here, watched all of Dazmodes videos. Read the entire thing twice now.
> 
> Just making sure the parts I like/want are what works with my components is wahts confusing me. I understand setting up the loop, the ID/OD of the tubing etc etc.
> 
> Ill check out that thread also.


You basically want these components and can go more extravagant from there:

- Pump. For less restrictive setups, a high gpm/lpm model is perfect, where if you're running several 90 degree fittings/several blocks (gpu/cpu/chipset) you will want to choose a higher head pressure pump. Swiftech MCP 655 is a great example of a high flow, and the 355 would be an example of high head pressure.

- Radiator. (Sometimes more than one if you're watercooling many parts.) Each radiator has different ratings on the heat/power it can dissipate as well as a FPI (Fins per square inch) rating. FPI is important as it will decide what kind of fans you will be using to move air through the radiator. High FPI rads require higher static pressures to move the air through as they are more restrictive. If your goal is silent operation, lower FPI radiators are typically better, higher performance uses high FPI rads at the cost of noise from higher RPM fans. Many newcomers to w/c start off with XSPC kits which include a low FPI radiator and decent fans.

- Fans. Based on the FPI and desired operation of your loop, your choice of fans is pretty simple. Gentle Typhoons are a very common fan used in watercooling as they offer both silent operation with the AP-14/AP-15 models while offering great static pressure. For the budget minded, Yate Loon fans offer good performance while being extremely easy on the pocketbook. If your goal is extreme performance, there are higher RPM/Static pressure fans available such as the Gentle Typhoon AP-29/30 models and Delta/Noiseblocker fans.

- Tubing/Fittings. The size is really up to you. 1/2" ID 3/4" OD is a very common size as it allows for some flexibility while maintaining enough rigidity to prevent kinks. Juggalo does a pretty good job explaining this in his videos as well as other tutorials found on this site. The one important thing to remember is that when choosing fittings, you want to match the ID for barbs, and BOTH ID/OD when using compression fittings. Another popular alternative is to use 7/16" ID tubing with 1/2" OD barbs as it provides for a really tight fit and can allow you to connect your loop without collars. If you're using 1/2" ID tubing, you should use collars/zipties to prevent them from slipping off over time. There are several different types of fittings for several different applications. I personally love using 45 degree rotaries as they help to keep my tubing straight and prevent kinks. Extenders can make the job much easier as well.

Keep in mind that while most fittings for blocks are G4, some are G3/8 and you will need an adapter. This is where planning out your loop before you start throwing it in your PC comes in handy.

- Reservoir/Fill line/Drain line. Reservoirs aren't really needed as they provide a method to keep water in your system and to give a visual on how full your loop is. I do recommend them as it makes your life much easier when gauging your loop's health. Reservoirs also (in my humble experience) make bleeding easier if they're placed above the pump/at the highest point in your loop. A fill line is just an extra tube that you connect to your pump's inlet and have exit at the highest point in your loop. This is more commonly used in minimalist setups where either a reservoir isn't able to fit, or the person is going for the least amount of components possible. Another tip I have is to put a drop of dishsoap in your reservoir/fill line when you're bleeding. Don't panic when you see a zillion bubbles popping everywhere. That's completely normal, and they will dissipate over time.









Something a lot of folks neglect to mention is putting in a drain line. I strongly recommend putting in a drain line (at the lowest point in your loop) by using a Y connector and having the output go to a quick disconnect/stop fitting. This will make changing your coolant *much* easier and faster. This is something you can also see from the builds section, just look at the bottom of the case and look for where a line is seemingly going nowhere at the bottom. That's likely the drain line.

- Biocide/Anti-microbial. PT-Nuke is probably the best additive to kill off any nasties that want to thrive in your loop due to the nice dark, warm environment. If you don't want to put a chemical in your loop, a great alternative is a silver kill-coil. I just popped one in my reservoir, and it has been doing it's job quite well. You do not need both.

- Liquid. Distilled water is best. It's cheap and doesn't contain any chemicals that can degrade your parts. This is important as warranties are voided by some additives. Try to avoid any colored pre-mixed solutions as well. Dyes will separate over time, and build up in your loop's high-restriction points. (CPU block commonly)

- Blocks. Probably the most obvious part of watercooling, so the only advice I have is to not cheap out on this part of your loop. Avoid any aluminum based blocks like the plague, and read up on some of the comparisons. Again, the XSPC kit offers a really well performing block at a really affordable price. As I said above, any of the 1156 blocks will fit your board. GPU blocks come in two flavors, one that covers the entire card, and one that covers only the GPU. If you have non-reference design cards, you'll need to use GPU-only blocks, and find a means of cooling your VRMs.

Geez, I didn't realize I wrote so much here. >< A lot of what I wrote can be found all over this forum, so I definitely recommend reading up and asking more questions when you're uncertain. Also, please be sure to leak test your system for several hours with _only_ the loop running. You can find more information on this in here as well if you're unsure on how to do this. Keep lots of paper towels handy!

Hope this helps clear up some of the questions you might have, and good luck!


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## PoopaScoopa

I noticed you mentioned the XSPC kits were pretty good.

What do you think about Koolance quick disconnect adapters? Purely for convenience of course.
http://www.koolance.com/technical/quick_disconnect_shutoff_couplings/qdc_fittings.html


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoopaScoopa;13503083*
> I noticed you mentioned the XSPC kits were pretty good.
> 
> What do you think about Koolance quick disconnect adapters? Purely for convenience of course.
> http://www.koolance.com/technical/quick_disconnect_shutoff_couplings/qdc_fittings.html


I honestly want to try them as they look like they would make life so easy when it comes to replacing parts. The only thing I would worry about is how restrictive the disconnects are. Please let us know how they work for you if you do end up going with them!


----------



## ajmidd12

After a month of research (I'm very thorough) I ordered the XSPC Rasa RS240 kit, should be here this week









For $120 CAD + $20 shipping, you can't go wrong for a full all parts included kit. Plus the kit is expandable, the 240mm (based on what I have read) can handle both a CPU & GPU loop, or CPU & Mobo loop. But if you want to go full water you will have to add another kit or upgrade the pump/res + another rad.


----------



## Daris1015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajmidd12;13536663*
> After a month of research (I'm very thorough) I ordered the XSPC Rasa RS240 kit, should be here this week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For $120 CAD + $20 shipping, you can't go wrong for a full all parts included kit. Plus the kit is expandable, the 240mm (based on what I have read) can handle both a CPU & GPU loop, or CPU & Mobo loop. But if you want to go full water you will have to add another kit or upgrade the pump/res + another rad.


I'm also looking at a 240. Where did you order from?


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajmidd12;13536663*
> After a month of research (I'm very thorough) I ordered the XSPC Rasa RS240 kit, should be here this week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For $120 CAD + $20 shipping, you can't go wrong for a full all parts included kit. Plus the kit is expandable, the 240mm (based on what I have read) can handle both a CPU & GPU loop, or CPU & Mobo loop. But if you want to go full water you will have to add another kit or upgrade the pump/res + another rad.


You sure it can do a CPU and GPU? I think you'd need something like the RX360 or hopefully a 480 for that.


----------



## ajmidd12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daris1015;13540785*
> I'm also looking at a 240. Where did you order from?


I ordered from frozencpu.com very easy to deal with and great customer service.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoopaScoopa;13542566*
> You sure it can do a CPU and GPU? I think you'd need something like the RX360 or hopefully a 480 for that.
> 
> For the Pros:
> I'm thinking of doing two separate loops for CPU/GPU.
> 
> Radiators: 2x EK XT360 or 2x RASA RX360? (I heard XSPC has low fin density which is good for AP-15s)
> Pump: 2x EK DCP4 or MCP655?
> Reservoir: EK-BAY SPIN or something better for 2 loops?
> CPU Block: EK-Supreme HF or Full Copper?
> Fittings: EK PSC 10mm or 12mm?


I'm 99% sure the RS240mm can with a single GPU loop, you will get warmer temps in the GPU than you would with a standalone loop but will still get lower temps in the CPU.

Just make sure the CPU is before the GPU in the loop. From the reviews I have read you may notice 2-4C higher on the GPU than if it was standalone. It all depends on your ambient really.


----------



## whiteslashasian

Those 6970's get pretty hot... I think that the RS240 is going to have a hard time keeping the temps down on that loop if the CPU and GPU are included.

The RX240 would better be able to handle the addition of the GPU.


----------



## ajmidd12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteslashasian;13550108*
> Those 6970's get pretty hot... I think that the RS240 is going to have a hard time keeping the temps down on that loop if the CPU and GPU are included.
> 
> The RX240 would better be able to handle the addition of the GPU.


I beg to differ, with an ambient where I live of 25C my GPU has never broken 60C, currently with the fan set at 30% it runs at 48C.

I know I will be adding a second entire system to run my GPU's and Mobo leaving the CPU as standalone but that is just me. Based on what I have read the RS240 kit can handle a CPU and 1 GPU loop. But expect slightly higher temps than just the CPU loop.


----------



## whiteslashasian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajmidd12;13551352*
> I beg to differ, with an ambient where I live of 25C my GPU has never broken 60C, currently with the fan set at 30% it runs at 48C.
> 
> I know I will be adding a second entire system to run my GPU's and Mobo leaving the CPU as standalone but that is just me. Based on what I have read the RS240 kit can handle a CPU and 1 GPU loop. But expect slightly higher temps than just the CPU loop.


48c at idle? How about at load? Reference cooler?

I don't doubt that the RS240 can _adequately_ cool a CPU+GPU loop, but I personally wouldn't be too happy with the temperatures. I think of water cooling as a way to keep the temperatures as far down as possible in order to achieve better overclocks and stability vs air. Running a CPU + something like a 6970 on an RS240 would be far from ideal and likely only a small improvement over a high end air cooling set up.

If running a standalone HD 6970 on the RS240, then that's no problem.


----------



## ajmidd12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteslashasian;13551966*
> 48c at idle? How about at load? Reference cooler?
> 
> I don't doubt that the RS240 can _adequately_ cool a CPU+GPU loop, but I personally wouldn't be too happy with the temperatures. I think of water cooling as a way to keep the temperatures as far down as possible in order to achieve better overclocks and stability vs air. Running a CPU + something like a 6970 on an RS240 would be far from ideal and likely only a small improvement over a high end air cooling set up.
> 
> If running a standalone HD 6970 on the RS240, then that's no problem.


Reference cooler on top card, Sapphire cooler on bottom card both exhaust out the back, both cards don't break 65C under full load, and 48C idle.

Currently both are overclocked to 940/1440 with fan speed set at 40% (almost silent)







They run significantly cooler than the 5870's


----------



## [email protected]

This thread still helps and reminds me what to prepare if i ever DECIDE to go CUSTOM. But i would LOVE a thread on maintenance cleaning!! PLEASE!


----------



## Rompf

Just what i needed!!! Just starting out my first project for water cooling system and You cannot find this information and this well detailed any where else! thank you!


----------



## DEEBS808

I am starting my first build and first time water cooling.I just want the challenge of it being my first build and first attempt at water cooling.Thanks for the information OP.Hope all goes well.


----------



## Crunkles

Ordering a HAF 932 today to start my endeavor of a water cooled PC. This thread and the others you have done have and will come in handy during equipment purchase and setup. Thanks for the thread! I may be posting with questions in the future haha. Cheers


----------



## superhead91

I finally got my loop set up, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. It's running, but I can hear water running pretty loudly, and it doesnt seem like the water is moving very much. I have an MCP350 in a koolance rp401x2 bay res. My pump is also pretty loud, like a high pitched whine. Any suggestions?


----------



## p4p3r

much useful, indeed.


----------



## Juggalo23451

I added more info I should of added when I first made this thread. Better late than never


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Cool, thanks.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoopaScoopa;14567182*
> Cool, thanks.


Np


----------



## Alan1187

Very nice guide, will for sure have to come back to this when I start to get into it.


----------



## Lutfij

hey there;

really nice read;

though i think i didn't find the answer that i was looking for.

I am currently looking at the Swiftech H20-220 EDGE kit and would like to get some fans to replace the fans that come with the kit. I will install the kit in my Tt Spedo and would like your opinions on the fans i should get.

I'm looking at the TFC Triebwerk fans and i dunno which speed i should get for the loop.

Thanks ~!


----------



## Greenback

just for info the xspc rasa rs360 kit will out perform that and for the price you could get the rx kit


----------



## Lutfij

RX you say...hmmm but i like the look of the compactness of the swiftech H20 edge kits - can i achieve the same without running too much tubing around the case?

like *this*?


----------



## Greenback

you have 3 tubes res/pump > cpu > rad > res/pump


----------



## Lutfij

4 because of that loop to the second swiftech 120 rad/res


----------



## Greenback

the xspc kit has 3 tubes res/pump > cpu > rad > res/pump


----------



## GusManB

Do you know if any of the Waterblacks on Newegg are any good like the

Swiftech APOGEE-XT
or
Enzotech

I like the Enzotech that has the blue LED

What do you think is best for an i7-980X?
I only want to cool my CPU for the time being?
And want to add my Radeon 5870 and 5970 GPUs later.

My case is A Thermaltake Armor+ Full Tower

Any ideals on A good Blue Coolant or Blue tubing to go with my blue theme interior?

Thanks So much


----------



## FrostyGPU

I have heard nothing but good things about Swiftech APOGEE-XT.

CHeck out these threads:

NEW swiftech Apogee XT !!
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620867

Swiftech APOGEE-XT Extreme vs. Rev2
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676963


----------



## Shiftstealth

EDIT Sent pm.


----------



## Cavi Mike

Nice write-up but could you recheck your grammar, spelling and punctuation? It took me a google search before I realized "reses" was you abbreviating "reservoirs."

Also, the pump doesn't need to be below the "reses" it just needs to be below the fill level. If you mount the pump and reservoir on the same plane and fill to higher than the impeller, you'll never lose your prime.


----------



## Rognin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cavi Mike;15180101*
> Nice write-up but could you recheck your grammar, spelling and punctuation? It took me a google search before I realized "reses" was you abbreviating "reservoirs."
> 
> Also, the pump doesn't need to be below the "reses" it just needs to be below the fill level. If you mount the pump and reservoir on the same plane and fill to higher than the impeller, you'll never lose your prime.


No offence meant by the next comment, but; maybe get use to the lingo?

Eg: "I have 4 QDC's that lead to two HXP's in a window box on a 360."

Res short for reservoir, or it's plurial reses for reservoirs should be easy to catch.

Kthxbye.


----------



## Lutfij

i've decided to go for the XSPC RX 240 kit - but i'd also like to know what the pump on that kit is capable of doing...can i add another 240/360 to the RX240 loop? I've read alot about the swiftech |EDGE kits with the MCP pumps but the price is just killing any hopes of getting one such kit.

as mentioned in the previous pagem, the loop i run only has the cpu and NB. don't want to get the GPU involoved


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cavi Mike;15180101*
> Nice write-up but could you recheck your grammar, spelling and punctuation? It took me a google search before I realized "reses" was you abbreviating "reservoirs."
> 
> Also, the pump doesn't need to be below the "reses" it just needs to be below the fill level. If you mount the pump and reservoir on the same plane and fill to higher than the impeller, you'll never lose your prime.


How can't you figure the reses issue. If you read my guide thoroughly I have reservoirs in bold then a pic of a res. Cant you put two and two together.
Res has to be higher than a pump which is below the fill level....


----------



## Juggalo23451

minor changes in parts suggestions


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Hey I'm not getting very many posts helping me on a build I'm thinking about do you think you could check it out? http://www.overclock.net/t/1190403/build-im-thinking-about


----------



## Hogwasher

Great thread


----------



## TwiggLe

So to get a basic setup cooling just a CPU what would you estimate the cost being low/high?


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwiggLe*
> 
> So to get a basic setup cooling just a CPU what would you estimate the cost being low/high?


The rasa 240 kit is most likely what you would get, its like $150 shipped, so depends what you consider low/high.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwiggLe*
> 
> So to get a basic setup cooling just a CPU what would you estimate the cost being low/high?


~ 300 for a moderate one. Maybe less if you're good.


----------



## TwiggLe

Thanks for the input I'm grabbing the Bitfinex Colussus case then I'll look into getting some watercooling at least for my CPU.


----------



## nzitser

do i need 2 seperate loops for gpu and cpu or can i put them on the same loop?


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nzitser*
> 
> do i need 2 seperate loops for gpu and cpu or can i put them on the same loop?


same loop


----------



## adridu59

I think that the Bitfenix Spectre's should be added to this guide..


----------



## GAMERIG

Your thread is great example, simply & easy to understanding..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> Water Cooling Guide
> By Juggalo23451
> 
> Depending on what you want to cool will depend on the size of rad you want
> Example a 240 radiators can cool most cpus., 360 rad for cpu and a gpu
> Best rad right now is the GTX series radiators by Hw labs(loud setup)
> Best rad(low noise) RX series rads by XSPC or SR-1 rad by HW labs
> Budget rad Xspc EX performs like the rx but cheaper and thinner
> P.s You can use a 77 Bonneville rad I believe if you wanted to.


I fully understanding your points of example as above. I have to read hundreds of threads from noobs've asked about 120 Radiators for cpu, no overclocking/ no gpu. but others kept to tell & pressure OP to get 240 or 360 rad for cpu.. OP don't asking for 240 or 360 rad..

So whats wrong with the custom 120/ 140 Single radiators and loop? they aren't cooling enough for CPU?

You know the 120mm Single rad closed CPU loop (Corsair Hydro , KÜHLER H2O) are very popular than ever!


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GAMERIG*
> 
> Your thread is great example, simply & easy to understanding..
> I fully understanding your points of example as above. I have to read hundreds of threads from noobs've asked about 120 Radiators for cpu, no overclocking/ no gpu. but others kept to tell & pressure OP to get 240 or 360 rad for cpu.. OP don't asking for 240 or 360 rad..
> So whats wrong with the custom 120/ 140 Single radiators and loop? they aren't cooling enough for CPU?
> You know the 120mm Single rad closed CPU loop (Corsair Hydro , KÜHLER H2O) are very popular than ever!


Might want to take a look at this before buying the Corsair or Kuhler kits:


----------



## GAMERIG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoopaScoopa*
> 
> Might want to take a look at this before buying the Corsair or Kuhler kits:


I aint plan to going to buy the closed loop kits & don't care about the 120mm RAD closed loop or Hi-ended air cooler.

I was asking - whats wrong with the regular 120mm or 140mm radiator, pump, and custom water-block as XSPC Rasa RX120 kits, [not the closed loop kit].. they aren't cooling enough for CPU only?


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Not for any serious water cooling.


----------



## Lutfij

with a TDp calculation you'll understand how much raddage you'll nee and the sort of fans to use for ridding yourself of the heat.


----------



## Jobotoo

Subbed


----------



## raxf

Thank you very much for this guide.This helped me a ton when installing my loop.
Just wanted to ask that I have nickel plated GPU blocks, but the raystorm is copper, will there be any corrosion?

And how often do I need to drain and refill my loop?
Thanks!


----------



## Lutfij

^careful!!! if they be EK blocks matey, then yey be walking the plank!

okay, okay, the EK's are dodgy pieces of hardware - better stay clear of them.


----------



## bakageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GAMERIG*
> 
> So whats wrong with the custom 120/ 140 Single radiators and loop? they aren't cooling enough for CPU?
> You know the 120mm Single rad closed CPU loop (Corsair Hydro , KÜHLER H2O) are very popular than ever!


Depending on the heat load and the fan speed, a 120mm can be inadequate. The Corsair Hydro coolers run relatively loud fans, and you'll notice even then that they only perform on par with air coolers. While a custom loop with a single 120mm and the same fan will perform better, many people water cool for less noise, and slowing the fans down will definitely raise the temperatures. Moving from a 120mm radiator to a 240mm radiator is trivially more expensive, but provides significantly more cooling capability, allowing reasonable speed fans while providing more cooling than any air cooler. Obviously, if you're short on space and don't mind more noise, a single 120mm radiator will be fine, but if you're looking for a quiet solution or have a CPU with a high thermal output (like a highly overclocked 2011), you may find that a 120mm radiator just doesn't provide enough cooling to justify the cost.


----------



## ShadowDragoon

No offense, but can you try to clean up the spelling and grammar mistakes a bit? It's making it hard to understand a few parts of the guide. :/


----------



## lol12ek

For the record, aluminum can be used in the same loop as nickel and stainless steel, just not copper and brass.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowDragoon*
> 
> No offense, but can you try to clean up the spelling and grammar mistakes a bit? It's making it hard to understand a few parts of the guide. :/


I cant fix what you don't point out.


----------



## ShadowDragoon

Would re-writing the first post to the best of my ability work? Because, I'm _just that compulsive_...

I say "to the best of my ability", because, again, a few parts are hard to understand.


----------



## Cancer

After reading all of that..............custom would be too complicated.
I have a bad habit of handpicking every component.

A kit like XSPC Rasa 750 RS360 Kit might be good though.....reasonably priced too.
(Compare to H100 at 115$)


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> After reading all of that..............custom would be too complicated.
> I have a bad habit of handpicking every component.
> A kit like XSPC Rasa 750 RS360 Kit might be good though.....reasonably priced too.
> (Compare to H100 at 115$)


You cant say that my first wc set up was custom. So I dont see how its complicated.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowDragoon*
> 
> Would re-writing the first post to the best of my ability work? Because, I'm _just that compulsive_...
> I say "to the best of my ability", because, again, a few parts are hard to understand.


I read them and it seems fine to me


----------



## Cancer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> You cant say that my first wc set up was custom. So I dont see how its complicated.


How would hand picking every component with no prior knowledge not be "complicated?"


----------



## ShadowDragoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> I read them and it seems fine to me


That could be because you're the one that wrote them...

Y'know what? Whatever. I was just offering a simple suggestion, but I rescind my offer of help. I'll just save my own local copy with proper grammar and spelling for myself...


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> How would hand picking every component with no prior knowledge not be "complicated?"


All I did is read on wc parts. Used google to find info about water cooling. This is how I found ocn


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowDragoon*
> 
> That could be because you're the one that wrote them...
> Y'know what? Whatever. I was just offering a simple suggestion, but I rescind my offer of help. I'll just save my own local copy with proper grammar and spelling for myself...


No reason to get upset. You really didn't offer any help at all.
You should of sent me a pm as well concerning this issue.


----------



## MKBOT

great guide !! has really helped me out .. the only thing i have some questions on now is about blocks.. i was looking at the xspc raystorm but i was also looking at the d5noz, aquacomputer and also the heatkiller and wanted some opinions on them. this is for AM3 BTW. cheers !!


----------



## Newbie2009

I recently had a pump fail on me. Was Xspc X20 750 or something, xspc Rez bay/Pump combo.

I had it running 2 7970s and a 2500k. After 3 months it died. Was I just unlucky or did I totally overload it?
My temps up to the moment of death were great, I was very happy with it.
Heavily overclocked cards would hit mid to high 40s depending on game.
Cpu would be around the 60c mark under heavy load.

I have recently replaced it with an xspc Bay/ pump combo but the pump is a 12V Laing DDC-1T+ Ultra 18W.

How is this pump rated?


----------



## Jayjr1105

Starting to get a bug about doing a custom loop for my system. Hate all the clutter from large heatsink's. I thought I might try an H100 but now I was thinking about doing a basic loop for my CPU and single GPU. Are there kits I should be looking at, or similar to PC building should I be buying the parts all separate to get the best of all the different parts?

What would I be looking at total cost for this kind of setup? (hoses, blocks, pump, reservoir, and radiator, did I miss anything else?)

I'm assuming I have a good case for water cooling although I'm sure there are better. I'd love to hide the rad in the upper part where the H100 fits.


----------



## sydneyignacio

Hey man I have a question? how much u spend for ur cooling?


----------



## PatrickCrowely

Great Thread & lots of help in here. Everyday I am so thankful that I am a part of this community!


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PatrickCrowely*
> 
> Great Thread & lots of help in here. Everyday I am so thankful that I am a part of this community!


Glad it helped you out







sorry for the reply


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sydneyignacio*
> 
> Hey man I have a question? how much u spend for ur cooling?


That depends on what water cooling loop you are talking about


----------



## PCCstudent

I started on the Koolance Forum, then one of our retired resivoir makers got tired of me asking him questions and sent me here.I got into folding (folding and watercooling go together very well) and after that it was just trying to justify spending so much money doing things with the computers others do not quite see the need for.A good starters guide.There can be a good amount of case modding with watercooling, so if you are the mechanical type you will have an edge.Me being an auto mechanic (and auto mechanics have so many different types of problems presented to them),I took to watercooling well.


----------



## ZombieEinstein

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> *Do not mix metals*
> You can have
> copper, nickel, brass, stainless steel in the same loop
> If you have any metal like this do not use something that is *aluminum*. Doing so will cause *Galvanic corrosion* which is very bad


But aren't most Rads made from aluminum?
Even then, Aluminum, while chemically unstable, is physically stable. It's true that Aluminum is one of the most reactive metals known - they make thermite out of Aluminum - but for the most part, only the surface corrodes. As it corrodes, it leaves behind a very stable "shell" that protects the metal beneath. If it gets scratched, they newly exposed metal is corroded instantly to form a new shell.

Stainless steel works the same way, because of the nickel in it. Unless I am ignorant of something, you should be able to use Aluminum in a loop with Stainless Steel, Brass and Nickel. It's just unplatted or uncoated Copper would would have to watch out for.


----------



## hamster3null

Most W/C rads are made of copper, I think. Koolance makes a couple of aluminum models but it's unusual.

On the other hand, almost all automotive radiators have been aluminum for the last 20 years or so. Galvanic corrosion problems do crop up occasionally but there's a number of ways to mitigate the problem. It helps if you use distilled water or dedicated coolant with a small quantity of corrosion inhibitor in it, or drop a sacrificial zinc anode somewhere in the loop.

W/C blocks are often nickel plated, because that substantially reduces the rate aluminum will corrode in a aluminum/copper mixed loop.


----------



## ZombieEinstein

A magnesium block would work like a Zinc block too - you can find them in any camping/outdoors store, in the fire starting section. But that might be over kill.


----------



## hamster3null

Or you could file down a penny (assuming that you're in the U.S.) and toss it into the reservoir. Once you get through the copper plating, pennies are 99% zinc.


----------



## DeadLink

Ever give any thought on adding TIM application to your thread? Its well wrote out I think IMO, but just an idea. I refer a couple friends to here to get help and seem that is what they ask the most from the guide you have provided.

-Matt


----------



## Nitrogannex

Hey, I have the parts I was thinking about in my space invader build for my WC loop, the Case is a Shinobi XL window and i would prefer 140mm rads over 120s. I'd really like some input about parts and what order my loop should go in


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> Ever give any thought on adding TIM application to your thread? Its well wrote out I think IMO, but just an idea. I refer a couple friends to here to get help and seem that is what they ask the most from the guide you have provided.
> -Matt


I show Iapply tim on my xspc raystorm and gpu gtx670 xspc water block install.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Bump on this I am seeing alot of what do I need, how should my loop be set up and etc. Most answers can be found in this guide.
Other info that can be helpful is the wc sticky thread
http://www.overclock.net/t/226970/updated-water-cooling-essential-threads


----------



## ChristianUshuaia

Hi there I found all this very interesting. Can you help me with my loop, I must admit that I purchased a WC kit without knowing. I bought the Swiftech H2O-220 Edge Kit for CPU, and the Apogee XT Rev. 2 for CPU block. The kit comes with everything needed for the installation with 1 CPU only. Now I found all this thing about WC very "tasty", so I'm thinking on ordering more stuff for my WC loop, I want to add 2 7970s to the CPU loop. Now can you check my thread please if you don't mind?.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1311333/help-with-wc-kit-noob


----------



## lukeman3000

Hey guys, first time water cooler here. Just got done pricing my build. Do I have the right number of everything?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*CPU Block*
1x XSPC RayStorm - $49.95

*VGA Block*
2x Danger Den Maze5 - $48.95 ($97.90)

*Reservoir*
1x XPSC 5.25" Bay Reservoir - $29.95

*Pump*
1x Swiftech MCP350 - $74.95

*Pump Top*
1x XSPC Acetal Laing DDC Top - $20.95

*Radiator*
1x Black Ice GTX Xtreme 240 - $95.95

*Fans*
2x Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 - $15.95 ($31.90)

*Tubing*
1x PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT 10 ft. - $22.95

*Fittings*
12x XSPC Low Profile Compression Fittings - $3.89 ($46.68)

*Total* = $471.18



Here's a picture of the case I have:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!













It's a Fractal Arc Midi and that pic came from their website. They market their case as being water cooling ready, so I guess that's what they are trying to show here. Does it look like the components I selected will fit?



And here's a picture of my case in its current configuration:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!













Bear in mind that there will be a second 670 coming along soon.



Also, here are a couple alternate choices of a radiator and a reservoir that I was considering:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*Alternate Reservoir*
Swiftech MCRES Micro Rev. 2 - $25.95

I had a hard time deciding between this reservoir and a bay reservoir. But I have an empty bay slot, and if I bought this one, I'd have to figure out how to mount it inside my case. The goal is to not have to mod my case at all.

That said, a bay reservoir prevents me from installing a fan controller, so that makes this reservoir a little more attractive in that aspect. This is assuming that I'd even want a controller. I will only have two addition fans (the two on the radiator), so maybe I should simply plug them into a molex and have them on full blast since I've read they are very quiet.

*Alternate Radiator*
Black Ice Xtreme II - $59.99

The Xtreme II is a little thinner than the GTX Xtreme 240, but I'm not sure if that would matter or not.


----------



## superericla

^ I don't think a 240mm radiator will keep 2 GPUs and a CPU cool effectively.


----------



## lukeman3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> ^ I don't think a 240mm radiator will keep 2 GPUs and a CPU cool effectively.


Do you have any numbers to show that? I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just genuinely interested to see some hard data regarding this.

I would think that a single, relatively thick 240 would keep everything at reasonable temps. I'm not looking for insanely cold temperatures, but if both of my GPUs stay below 70C during load (and my CPU around the same area), I'd be happy.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeman3000*
> 
> Do you have any numbers to show that? I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just genuinely interested to see some hard data regarding this.
> I would think that a single, relatively thick 240 would keep everything at reasonable temps. I'm not looking for insanely cold temperatures, but if both of my GPUs stay below 70C during load (and my CPU around the same area), I'd be happy.


It wouldn't be enough for 2 GPUs and a CPU.

3570k no OC: 77W
GTX 670 - 170W

If you're just going to cool one card and GPU with no OC you're stylin. Add a second GPU and you've got over 400 watts. The general rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space will cool around 100-120ish watts of heat.


----------



## lukeman3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> It wouldn't be enough for 2 GPUs and a CPU.
> 3570k no OC: 77W
> GTX 670 - 170W
> If you're just going to cool one card and GPU with no OC you're stylin. Add a second GPU and you've got over 400 watts. The general rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space will cool around 100-120ish watts of heat.


So, perhaps if I add another 120mm rad on the floor of the case, I'd be good to go?


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeman3000*
> 
> So, perhaps if I add another 120mm rad on the floor of the case, I'd be good to go?


It would be enough to keep them under 70 I'd imagine if all fans are in push pull and high CFM, but you'd have almost no overclocking headroom.


----------



## superericla

For decent overclocking headroom, I usually suggest having 120mm of radiator space per component cooled, plus an additional 120mm.


----------



## lukeman3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> For decent overclocking headroom, I usually suggest having 120mm of radiator space per component cooled, plus an additional 120mm.


But if I'm not necessarily looking for the lowest temps or the highest overclocks, is it reasonable to assume that I could keep my two 670s under 70C and my CPU at a decent temp as well when they are under load with one 240mm and one 120mm rad?

Right now, my GTX 670 gets up to about 80C under load. I want to add a second 670, but I would like to keep them below 70C under load because that's when they start getting throttled. I also may want to do a light overclock on my CPU, bringing it up to 4.0GHz from 3.4GHz or something of that nature.

So I would have a 120mm rad for each component. Plus, the 6xx series Nvidia cards draw less power and don't get nearly as hot as their predecessors.

Well, a 240mm and a 120mm is about the most I'll be able to fit in my case without modding. I guess I can try it, and worst case scenario I can mod the case or go with an external solution. I'd like to keep it all internal, though.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeman3000*
> 
> But if I'm not necessarily looking for the lowest temps or the highest overclocks, is it reasonable to assume that I could keep my two 670s under 70C and my CPU at a decent temp as well when they are under load with one 240mm and one 120mm rad?
> Right now, my GTX 670 gets up to about 80C under load. I want to add a second 670, but I would like to keep them below 70C under load because that's when they start getting throttled. I also may want to do a light overclock on my CPU, bringing it up to 4.0GHz from 3.4GHz or something of that nature.
> So I would have a 120mm rad for each component. Plus, the 6xx series Nvidia cards draw less power and don't get nearly as hot as their predecessors.
> Well, a 240mm and a 120mm is about the most I'll be able to fit in my case without modding. I guess I can try it, and worst case scenario I can mod the case or go with an external solution. I'd like to keep it all internal, though.


A 240 and 120 radiator should do fine as long as you aren't looking for high overclocks.


----------



## hamster3null

Why settle for 70 C under load if, with adequate amount of radiator space, you can easily get GPUs down to 45 C?

You have lots of other components besides GPUs. There are secondary chips on graphics cards, memory, hard drives, etc. If GPUs are hot, everything else will be hot.


----------



## DeadLink

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeman3000*
> 
> Do you have any numbers to show that? I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just genuinely interested to see some hard data regarding this.
> I would think that a single, relatively thick 240 would keep everything at reasonable temps. I'm not looking for insanely cold temperatures, but if both of my GPUs stay below 70C during load (and my CPU around the same area), I'd be happy.


Have you looked at some of the people putting 360mm rads in your case?


----------



## Kwilson408

Nice guide. I've researched my butt off and found more info here in 20 minutes than I've found in months. Thx.


----------



## T S D

Great guide. Enjoyed the read.

I have a question about using two pumps. I read somewhere that they would be better in series than in parallel. But if one failed wouldn't it restrict the flow of the other or are the pumps desigend to freeflow? I don't now how the internals are designed.

This is going to be my first water build and I wanted to have redundancy. I wasn't too concerened with getting more flow or pressure even though that would be a bonus.

I would also image check valves would be needed so you don't get backflow on the parallel option!?



I did find the "Swiftech Extreme Flow MCP35X2 Dual 12v DC Pump " but I'm not sure if I like the layout of it. It would simplfy things but I'm going for a certain look.


----------



## Roder J

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kwilson408*
> 
> Nice guide. I've researched my butt off and found more info here in 20 minutes than I've found in months. Thx.


I agree! this has been very helpfull.


----------



## Juggalo23451

added cpu block compariosn


----------



## GaFooB

what is the best budget GPU block and what is the best GPU block for the PNY GTX 670? Would you perhaps know?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaFooB*
> 
> what is the best budget GPU block and what is the best GPU block for the PNY GTX 670? Would you perhaps know?


I state this under the water block section.


----------



## Juggalo23451

updated
Added Maintenance


----------



## iwalkwithedead

Great!








A lot of helpful information. Bookmarked.


----------



## goldry

Nice guide.


----------



## bmacks1

Nice guide. I found it very helpful with my first water cooling build.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmacks1*
> 
> Nice guide. I found it very helpful with my first water cooling build.


I know this is late but, I appreciate all the comments that my guide was useful to help others


----------



## flaneur

It would appear that I have arrived late to the party, yet I am hopeful I can breath some life into this thread.Thank you Juggalo, for your valiant efforts in compiling this guide. It has been very insightful. Now I have never built a P.C before let alone a water cooling loop so any help and guidance is much appreciated. Below is a list of components for the build.

Rampage 4 Extreme
i73930k
g skill ripjaw 64 gb (2400mhz)
Evga GTX Titan
Silverstone PSU 1500W
Magicool 180 Triple Rad 540mm
AP182 Fans 180mm x3
AP182 Fan 120mm x1
Hyper X SSD 240gb x2
Koolance CPU-380i
Aquacomputer Titan Waterblock Glass/Acrylic
Aquacomputer Titan Backplate with heat dissipation terminal
Kingwin Hotrack x2
Koolance Reservoir RP-452X2
PMP-450
Koolance No Spill Disconnects

What would be the best order for running the loop, bearing in mind I only have one huge rad which will be at the base of the case. I will mount all 3 fans on top of the rad.

Res>pump>gpu>cpu>rad>res
Res>pump>cpu>gpu>rad>res

Or should I go straight to the rad first then other components.

Also what configuration would be best for fans? Bottom 3 pushing with upper fan pulling or vice versa.

Cheers in advance


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> I know this is late but, I appreciate all the comments that my guide was useful to help others


im sorry i sent you a pm back when i got finished setting up and leak testing. thank you for this great guide. as someone else stated, there is more info in 1 post from you than you can find and read in a week of googling.

flaneur, loop order doesnt matter, temps will equalize and the temps will differ about 1*C throughout the entire loop. just remember to put the res right before the pump and dont let the pump dry dry.
fan wise, if you plan to run the ap181s at slow to mid speed only, use pull. if you plan to go high rpm, use push. thats according to a test review by martin for push vs pull. personally, i would just use push, those are killer spec'ed fans. remember to use a VERY good fan controller. silverstone rates them at 15.6watts at full speed


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> im sorry i sent you a pm back when i got finished setting up and leak testing. thank you for this great guide. as someone else stated, there is more info in 1 post from you than you can find and read in a week of googling.


That is great to hear I tried to make this an all in one water cooling guide that has info on what is what cooling, as well as having videos to go along with it, suggesting parts, and showing comparisons between rads,cpu blocks, and etc









If there is any new info that you think I missed let me know.

Also sorry for the late reply I've been busy and now I am in the process of moving.


----------



## PCBuilder94

So I need to fill my rad with Alcohol before putting it in my loop? Or can I boil distilled water and put it in my rad and shake it?


----------



## pc-illiterate

you can boil tapwater if you rinse it out after that with distilled. thats what i do. actually i just use hot tap water. out water heater is set to max high.


----------



## PCBuilder94

Okay any reason why it has to be hot? Also will I need to let it dry?


----------



## pc-illiterate

hot water will soften and loosen the flux and any other crap that may be in the rad. you dont 'have' to let it dry. its going to be wet when its filled isnt it?

oh and juggalo, good luck with the move. i hope you enjoy your new home. pics or it didnt happen, lol


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> hot water will soften and loosen the flux and any other crap that may be in the rad. you dont 'have' to let it dry. its going to be wet when its filled isnt it?


Yeah,
You don't have to let it dry after you got out all the flux and rinse it with distilled if using hot tap water. I just use distilled water for the whole process.


----------



## ChristianUshuaia

Hi there wonderful OCN community, I need some guidance about my WC loop.

Im new in the WC area. I built my WC rig 9 months ago and It has been pretty solid. I used NANOXIA HyperZero RED UV Coolant. Look this is read from the bottle:

"HyperZero Unique composition of a very efficient, long-term corrosion protection and a special UV-active fluorescent dye is the perfect choice for all PC WC systems. HZero was designed for closed cooling circuits to prevent corrosion of all cooling materials (eg. copper, aluminium, brass etc.) HZero is almost scentless and does not harm tubes ir synthetic materials. Contains no glysantine/glycol and has no negative impact on cooling performance. For optimum corrosion protection, add HZero undilated to the WC circuit."

Well I hope all the stated above is true. Whats your opinion?. I Have all copper-brass: XSPC Razor Full HD7970 blocks, Swiftech Apogee XT block, copper radiators, fittings.

How often should I flush my WC loop?. I haven't done it yet, and Im pretty scared about corrosion. I have read a review about corrosion here: http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

Thank you all.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChristianUshuaia*
> 
> How often should I flush my WC loop?. I haven't done it yet, and Im pretty scared about corrosion. I have read a review about corrosion here: http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/
> 
> Thank you all.


I state this Under Maintenance.
I don't use coolants., most of them/ not all will stain your blocks,tubing and etc.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> hot water will soften and loosen the flux and any other crap that may be in the rad. you dont 'have' to let it dry. its going to be wet when its filled isnt it?
> 
> oh and juggalo, good luck with the move. i hope you enjoy your new home. pics or it didnt happen, lol


Well for the most part I am done moving. Not saying where.
I will be going through this guide to see if anything I can add. I think for the most part it is a pretty solid guide( I know it is not perfect)

*If anyone has any suggestions let me know and I will take it into consideration.*

Just realized that this guide has *66,518 views














*


----------



## tom_gr7

nice guide mate, really useful thanks.









I do have one question though. I have a CM storm trooper, now I can either fit a 280mm 30mm thick rad in the roof with push pull if i remove the case handle. OR I can do TTL's 360m rad mod and install 360mm 30mm thick rad. - But i would lose the top two drive bays then. So is there likely to be much performance difference between a 280mm rad and a 360mm rad?

thanks.


----------



## pc-illiterate

43200^2^mm for a 3x 120 aka 360
39200^2^mm for a 2x 140 aka 280
i would say it depends on which fans you use for either system. area wise, the 120mm 360 should cool better. it has more surface area. but again, it depends on your fans.


----------



## Sarf

Does the copper block on the gpu's corrode? I have a msi gtx lightning gpu and was thinking of a water block for it i'm torn between the ek lightning and aquacomputer kryos gpu dunno which is better too. Saw your gpu and wanted to ask you of that


----------



## DarkStarX

Am I right in assuming that if you use the pump top, like you show, that the top most part of the pump is removed (which in your pump picture is the part that says swiftech and has the inlet/outlet) and replaced with the new top?

Also is there any benefits of switching the tops besides changing the sizes of the intake and outlet fittings?


----------



## theseekeroffun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkStarX*
> 
> Am I right in assuming that if you use the pump top, like you show, that the top most part of the pump is removed (which in your pump picture is the part that says swiftech and has the inlet/outlet) and replaced with the new top?
> 
> Also is there any benefits of switching the tops besides changing the sizes of the intake and outlet fittings?


It will look something like this....



Yes, switching the top will give you better performance.


----------



## DarkStarX

Wow, that was fast. Thanks!


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Quick question for you guys! I have all the pieces to my loop. The waterblocks are attached, the fittings are on, and the radiators with fans are in place. I'm just waiting for my shipment of more copper tubes and a bender which won't be for another week or two.

I was wondering, if I were to keep the side panel off and point a standalone fan I use to keep my room cool and aim it towards my PC and have my A/C on, will I be able to use my PC for gaming? The fan moves a lot of air. It tends to turn my room into a wind tunnel at the highest setting. Would it be safe to use my PC with that fan pointed at from 3 feet away?


----------



## pc-illiterate

you mean with no cooling on the cpu and gpu 'except that floor fan'? no way. overheat before you boot into windows.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theseekeroffun*
> 
> It will look something like this....
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, switching the top will give you better performance.


You will see more of an improvement if using the mcp350 or mcp355 for example.
The Mcp655/ D5 not so much


----------



## nleksan

I agree. For the cost, especially once you get the mod kit/new top/etc for a D5, I think they're just over-rated....

The MCP35X and MCP35X2 have served me incredibly well, and I have never once been able to actually hear the pumps (except when I pull the PWM plug to run them @ 100%). That, and the only thing you should buy for them are the heatsinks and maybe an 80x15mm fan, as they have THE best performing top(s) pre-installed.


----------



## Adrenalined

Not really sure if this is the right place, but I need a little help. Long story short, I can't seem to figure this out. Either I'm blind and it's right in front of my face or I just haven't had enough coffee. I'm trying to hook up this male 3/8 threaded Koolance QD coupling to this Bitspower mini valve. Well the parts came in today and I bought the wrong thread adapter. I read 3/8 to 1/4 and ran with it. I can't seem to find the correct one anywhere though. Can someone help me out with hooking up these two pieces?


----------



## theseekeroffun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adrenalined*
> 
> Not really sure if this is the right place, but I need a little help. Long story short, I can't seem to figure this out. Either I'm blind and it's right in front of my face or I just haven't had enough coffee. I'm trying to hook up this male 3/8 threaded Koolance QD coupling to this Bitspower mini valve. Well the parts came in today and I bought the wrong thread adapter. I read 3/8 to 1/4 and ran with it. I can't seem to find the correct one anywhere though. Can someone help me out with hooking up these two pieces?


It would have been easier to get a Koolance 1/4 male. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18229/koo-329/Koolance_QD3_Quick_Disconnect_No-Spill_Coupling_Male_Threaded_G_14_BSPP_QD3-MG4.html?tl=c405s1867b4


----------



## Adrenalined

Hmm, I have the QD4 Female, can I use that with the QD3? I thought I had to match them.


----------



## pc-illiterate

you do have to match them. return them both and get a g1/4 version. is this only for a drain? you dont need the qdc if you already have a shut off valve. screw in a g1/4 barb with a piece of tubing on the end. to drain: open the valve...


----------



## Adrenalined

You're absolutely right. Had I planned this whole thing properly in the first place like I should have I probably wouldn't be in this situation







. However, this was my first build and I got anxious like I do with new parts and now I'm here. The setup I have now is ... ok ... It doesn't function the way I had hoped and now I want to change it because I'm tired of looking at it. Basically I wanted to do a QD setup. The setup that isn't working is Res > T Connector. From here one direction goes to the pump and the other to a tube on a rotary compression with the QD on it. In my head when I was buying stuff this sounded great. Yeah...it's not. When filling the res some coolant goes down the drain tube. No big deal. Once the system is filled and running the coolant in the drain tube isn't being circulated. "I'll just leave it" I said to myself. Well, it looks really bad, like a 5 year old put the loop together and to top it off the Mayhem dye is starting to separate there. It's probably not "THAT" big of a deal but it's bothering me. All of that being said, I do like your suggestion, but I can't seem to stomach the thought of not using the QDCs. To make matters worse, I've done exactly all of this again. I need to learn to be patient with this WC Loop thing, plan, and buy accordingly. What I've spent in shipping and now possibly more shipping to get the right part I could have another block and radiator. This is no one's fault but mine









TLDR: I rushed when I ordered parts because I wasn't patient. I don't like the design of a poorly thought out loop. I want to change it now and I'm trying to use most of the parts so I don't feel bad about having them laying around.


----------



## tom_gr7

Just a quick question guys,

Planning my wc build. Looking to add a Alphacool NexXxos XT45 360mm Rad, Clicky

My Question is, will a 45mm thick rad be ok with one set of fans in pull? OR Would performance be greater if i went for a 30mm thick rad with push pull? or is a 60mm thick rad ok with a single set of fans in pull?


----------



## GaMbi2004

Help plz!

My setup has goo in it ( will post pics tomorrow) I can see it in the highest ends of the tube and sides of the reservoir.
Like a brownish film, following the flow (not water surface)

My components are:
Copper CPU(Apogee HD),
Copper GPU(XSPC),
Copper 120 rad(Black Ice GTS lite)
Brass 240 rad(Black Ice GTS)
Brass fittings (Monsoon push on)
XSPC tubing(Blue UV)
and Adjective danish side.. sorry.. I dont know who makes it or much of anything else.. 10ml to 1liter
I might have added 12.5 ml to 1 liter cause.. why waist the last 5ml vs 2 liter distilled? bad idea?

Question is:
Is some of these components causing this?
How do I go about cleaning the system?
Should I just forget about the adjective and try get hold of a silver coil?
Should I replace the tubing? or can it be cleaned the same way as components?


----------



## pc-illiterate

did you flush out all of your parts before you built your loop?


----------



## GaMbi2004

I did.. but I guess I could have done a better job of it..
could that be the problem? my GPU block was added recently, and I did not flush that at all (full cover)

Im willing to clean out the system and keep using that adjective if it might just be a problem of flushing before using..
I had my CPU block opened a few weeks ago, no corrosion to see, but some goo in the small fins in the block, not much after 6 months use.

I guess I will open the blocks and clean them + flushing the radiators
How would I go about doing that? can I use normal water for that? and if so, will I have to flush a last time with distilled water to get the normal water out?


----------



## DarkStarX

Okay, let's assume I put together a custom loop with distilled water and a kill coil, would having the system sit unused for a couple weeks while on vacation be a problem?


----------



## GaMbi2004

good question..
I dont know the answer, but if there should be complications involved:
you COULD short your ATX as you would when bleeding.. then put the power to the PSU on one of those timer things, making the pump run for an hour a day.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkStarX*
> 
> Okay, let's assume I put together a custom loop with distilled water and a kill coil, would having the system sit unused for a couple weeks while on vacation be a problem?


you shouldn't have a problem


----------



## adi518

Got a Magicool radiator here... how should I flush it? hot (boiled) distilled water? hot tap water? and by "hot tap water", does it mean boiling hot or 'regular' hot water from the "hot water" barb?

I keep reading all kinds of ways, but it got me all confused and without a clue which is the best for this specific radiator. It's copper inside ofc.

THE RADIATOR IS NEW and I plan to fill my loop with Ice Dragon without any additive. Btw, this rad comes with 4 plastic covers. I reckon the two ports I won't use, I still need to remove those plastic ones and use proper fittings, right?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adi518*
> 
> Got a Magicool radiator here... how should I flush it? hot (boiled) distilled water? hot tap water? and by "hot tap water", does it mean boiling hot or 'regular' hot water from the "hot water" barb?
> 
> I keep reading all kinds of ways, but it got me all confused and without a clue which is the best for this specific radiator. It's copper inside ofc.
> 
> THE RADIATOR IS NEW and I plan to fill my loop with Ice Dragon without any additive. Btw, this rad comes with 4 plastic covers. I reckon that the two ports I won't use, I still need to remove those plastic ones and use proper fittings, right?


Use what I suggest in the Maintenance portion of this guide and you will be fine


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adi518*
> 
> Got a Magicool radiator here... how should I flush it? hot (boiled) distilled water? hot tap water? and by "hot tap water", does it mean boiling hot or 'regular' hot water from the "hot water" barb?
> 
> I keep reading all kinds of ways, but it got me all confused and without a clue which is the best for this specific radiator. It's copper inside ofc.
> 
> THE RADIATOR IS NEW and I plan to fill my loop with Ice Dragon without any additive. Btw, this rad comes with 4 plastic covers. I reckon that the two ports I won't use, I still need to remove those plastic ones and use proper fittings, right?


those plastic plugs.. are they just pushed into the ports or screwed like you would a normal fitting?
Most radiators comes with plugs for but two of the holes. I guess, no rule without exception








If they are the kind that is just push in, you need to replace them. They are only for protection and would be blown out with the smallest amount of pressure








If they are the threaded kind, look for any rubber gasket.. if it got this, they should work out fine!

as for the flushing, there are many ways, but the simplest is to just use hot tap water, shake the radiator good.. repeat this till only clear water comes out the other end. then rinse a few times with distilled water to rinse out the remaining tap water.

This is not gonna be relevant for you, but if you get sh** in your system, you might need to use a harder solution.. adding 10-20% vinegar to the hot water..

Hope this helps!


----------



## adi518

hmm.... they screw in but I don't know... it's looking flimsy and there's no rubber o-ring like on a proper stop fitting. I'll just use regular stop fittings and be done with it..

about the flushing... I better not get $hit in my system because if the IDC liquid gets contaminated, I'm doomed and will have to order new bottle from overseas.









Hmm btw, this radiator + cpu block + gpu block (ek 680 old design block) + koolance 452 res (using both containers) > 1 liter of liquid? :\

wouldn't tap water contain kettle?


----------



## GaMbi2004

good choice









1 liter is plenty.. I got CPU, GPU 120+240 and it takes a little over 1/2 liter.. then I added a 1080 rad ^^ it takes another half a liter.. and I doubt your ress holds that much water over my Ø50x150mm ress









Can I have a link for that coolant? how come your not just using normal distilled water? is yours colored or something?
All those fanzy / hard to get your hand on, liquids may even be worse for your system than normal distilled water + adjective or just a silver coil.

Yes.. tap water contains all sorts of impurities.. that is why I said to rinse with distilled afterwards








If you wanna be mr. perfect, I guess you could heat up some distilled water and use instead.. a bit over kill for my taste.


----------



## adi518

http://www.icedragoncooling.com/

That's what I'm using. I selected it because it's a ready-to-go solution in solid white.









I was going around this for quite awhile. One of the problems in water cooling is that there isn't a definite answer for most aspects. You can read hundreds of threads and google pages and still not be able to get a clear answer on things. I figured then, getting all liquid components would end up costing more than 30$ and the more components you use, the more complex it becomes to execute correctly, so I just fit my rig colorway design to the white liquid and went for it. I've seen many people use this liquid with success so I sort of count on their experience.

Here's a rig of a user called 'lowfat':



He's now doing a third or forth build with this liquid, so it seems to work nicely for him.

I believe in KISS (keep it simple stupid) so in complex aspects like what liquids to use, I just prefer to go with something that is inclusive and has a good reputation (I've seen this liquid being used in murder-mod rigs). Btw, you can also dye this liquid and achieve some astonishing colors!


----------



## ProfeZZor X

Hah, where was this thread when I first started... I've already started to revamp/rethink my build to change out my entire case for more cooling.


----------



## GaMbi2004

adi518
Nice! looks awesome
and I can see you have investigated the subject!

I disagree on the easy / not as many components..
what I suggested was, a silver coil (can be used for years) and then just adding distilled water (dosnt get cheaper /simpler) and would cost 15 dollars ~ with coil and after that.. 2-3 dollar pr liter of distilled?
it is advised to replace your liquid every 1/2 - 1 year, but then again, I dont know your coolant. It might be some awesome stuff that dosnt need changing?









It seams like a high quality liquid you have found and I would definitely stick with it! looks great!


----------



## adi518

Thanks Gambi! of course, if any issues arise, the forum will know first.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Im sure its gonna turn out great!
Best of luck! ^^


----------



## DarkStarX

Would have different types of reservoirs in a system cause any problems?

Basically I like the idea of a bay res with a spinner but for interior appearances I like the tube reservoirs.

Also would having the bay res at the top of the case and the tube res near the bottom cause any problems?

Finally I would like to apologize in advance, I'm currently planning a new build for the spring and I want to try my first custom loop but I like to read and think through everything beforehand so I'm sure I'll be asking a million and one question before I actually order my parts (the only thing I know about this build is that it will be water-cooled and it will be in a Caselabs double wide case.)

Thanks in advance for your patience.


----------



## GaMbi2004

ask away







and im sure you are also looking in the other w/c threads to gather knowledge.

two reservoirs shouldn't cause a problem. they have next to no flow restriction, so you can put two in a loop without any problems.
It might actually make it easier to get all bubbles out of the system


----------



## rickyman0319

where do I buy UV tube for it?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> ask away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and im sure you are also looking in the other w/c threads to gather knowledge.
> 
> two reservoirs shouldn't cause a problem. they have next to no flow restriction, so you can put two in a loop without any problems.
> It might actually make it easier to get all bubbles out of the system


if he has two reservoirs he will need two pumps


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> if he has two reservoirs he will need two pumps


Water Cooling stores
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/7848-stores-buy-watercooling-gear.html


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> if he has two reservoirs he will need two pumps


Im no expert, I wouldn't think that would be necessary? care to elaborate?


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> if he has two reservoirs he will need two pumps


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Im no expert, I wouldn't think that would be necessary? care to elaborate?


Why 2 would be needed?


----------



## GaMbi2004

yea








I cant see why a pump for each res would be necessary.. I would guess water would just flow through it? ress/pump -> rad (or what ever) -> res2 -> rest and back to res/pump

I guess the res2 would have to have as little air in it as possible. but even with some air, I cant see why it shouldnt work with only 1 pump.


----------



## nleksan

Can ABSOLUTELY do two reservoirs with a single pump...

I run an EK 150 Multioption X2, as well as an XSPC Single Bay res. I didn't intend to, but when the EK clamps turned out to be the most useless pieces of junk (seriously, ridiculously horrific fecal matter) that weren't even within +/-10% of the right diameter, I got impatient and just got the cheap XSPC res instead.
Well, then I got some Bitspower Res Clamps and because Bitspower knows how to make them properly, they hold the EK res like superglue.

So, I decided to take advantage of having an extra 150mL or so of liquid in my loop, as well as making it more aesthetically "water cooled" lol, and have both a "window res" and a "front of case res".

Here it is, and no, it didn't hurt or change my flow rate in any way. The trick is that you have to fill and fill and fill until the tube res CANNOT under any circumstances suck up air.
















And in my Z77 rig, I have a similar thing: Koolance dual-DDC (2x MCP35X) single slot bay res + BP Z-Tank Multi 250mL. Works awesome-ly.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> yea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cant see why a pump for each res would be necessary.. I would guess water would just flow through it? ress/pump -> rad (or what ever) -> res2 -> rest and back to res/pump
> 
> I guess the res2 would have to have as little air in it as possible. but even with some air, I cant see why it shouldnt work with only 1 pump.


You can run more than one res in a loop,the first res in line would need to be capped at the fluid level you need,otherwise it just fills up.

Why you would ever need 2 res is beyond me,its just inefficiency being built in.

Hokies(the so-called Watercooling Guru......







) has a 3 res loop......looks ridiculous.


----------



## freeleacher

Added h100 to cpu then used my old intell water cooler to the gpu,had to make bracket and open up 2 holes because I didn't have thin enough bolts.
Had to cut top of case for the rad and the side for the new fan,
Then had to remove the cd drive to add a 140 mm fan and make a fan surround from a old game board then colour it in with a black marker pen,Looks ok,
I can hardly here this machine now and my temps have droped to 30 to 40 c max load on the gpu.
Zero maintenance required other than fan and rad cleaning , much less messing around for the sake of a few degrees.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkStarX*
> 
> Would have different types of reservoirs in a system cause any problems?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Basically I like the idea of a bay res with a spinner but for interior appearances I like the tube reservoirs.
> 
> Also would having the bay res at the top of the case and the tube res near the bottom cause any problems?
> 
> Finally I would like to apologize in advance, I'm currently planning a new build for the spring and I want to try my first custom loop but I like to read and think through everything beforehand so I'm sure I'll be asking a million and one question before I actually order my parts (the only thing I know about this build is that it will be water-cooled and it will be in a Caselabs double wide case.)
> 
> Thanks in advance for your patience.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> ask away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> and im sure you are also looking in the other w/c threads to gather knowledge.
> 
> two reservoirs shouldn't cause a problem. they have next to no flow restriction, so you can put two in a loop without any problems.
> It might actually make it easier to get all bubbles out of the system


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> if he has two reservoirs he will need two pumps


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Im no expert, I wouldn't think that would be necessary? care to elaborate?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BadDad62*
> 
> Why 2 would be needed?


DarkStarX wanted to know.. I said it wouldn't be a problem, Juggalo than saidtwo resses would need two pumps and I asked why.

but I think the whole thing is answered by now:
As I said and nleksan confirmed, that two reservoirs and one pump is no problem.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Thanks for the thread.


----------



## dh19881

Cooling loop design. I'm looking for input about a design that I have been working on.
I have not worked out any specific thermal loads, I'm just looking for comments about if (in theory) this kind of configuration could work.
I'm not trying to get super cold temps, just a bit cooler than ambient.

I thought up this design to provide a redundant water-cooling design with a cooling booster. If the peltier fails, the system works as a standard water-cooling loop.

I realize that I would need an extremely large radiator to dissipate the additional heat. In addition, I decided to provide more flow to the hot side of the Peltier to promote cooler temps for the CPU liquid temp.



When looking at the chart, a wider connecting line indicates greater water flow.


----------



## SkipP

I am flushing my new Swiftech 360mm radiator, and nothing is coming out. I have even kept 100 degree F. water in there for 15 minutes, then flushed, and NOTHING. Am I doing this wrong? I thought you were supposed to fill with hot water then shake and empty, then repeat. This has yielded zero results. This rad is empty. Is that okay? Did I get a good one, or does this mean that something is wrong?


----------



## GaMbi2004

we only flush to get out whatever the manufacturer "forgot".. it sounds like they did a decent job on your rad.. if nothing comes out (clean water) than you are good to go..

Did you empty the rad in a clear glass or something like that? that way, what ever might be in the rad, will sink to the bottom and be easy to spot.


----------



## SkipP

I used a coffee filter in my sink.

Also, I bought a pump I thought looked good, but I cannot find it anywhere online. It is a Danger Den 600P. It s 600L per hour with 2.6m "Head." What is "hed" pressure? For example, this expensive Swiftech MCP355: Head 15 ft (4.5 m) and 454 L per hour.

Why would mine have a higher rate with a lower "Head." Or frankly, what is "Head?" Also, does anyone know anything about my pump?

Also, where do you buy long screws for going through a whole 25mm fan into a rad? My Corsair SP120's have little worthless screws and my Swiftech rad did not come with hardware.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I used a coffee filter in my sink.
> 
> Also, I bought a pump I thought looked good, but I cannot find it anywhere online. It is a Danger Den 600P. It s 600L per hour with 2.6m "Head." What is "hed" pressure? For example, this expensive Swiftech MCP355: Head 15 ft (4.5 m) and 454 L per hour.
> 
> Why would mine have a higher rate with a lower "Head." Or frankly, what is "Head?" Also, does anyone know anything about my pump?
> 
> Also, where do you buy long screws for going through a whole 25mm fan into a rad? My Corsair SP120's have little worthless screws and my Swiftech rad did not come with hardware.


the "head" is how high the pump can push the water. Im fairly sure it is NOT measured from the lowest point to the highest, but rather all the up going streams in the system. like:
If you have a 360mm radiator mounted vertically, the water would have to travel up the radiator 2 or 3 times (depending on the radiator design) so one 360mm radiator means 3x360mm of traveling / head, also the tubes going upwards should be added to this.

2.6m of head should be fine for most cases, but I can highly recommend the MCP355, I have it running at setting 4 (out of 5) and it is dead silent and pushes water true my 120mm 240mm and 3x360mm(1080) radiators, GPU and CPU with no problems what so ever ^^

the 600Lph/2.6m head vs 454Lph/4,5m head, can be understood the same way we think of fans with high pressure or high flow. For radiators, you need fans with high pressure rather than high flow (how much air is moved) witch might not be strong enough to blow through the radiator
This is determined by the shape and the speed of the blades. and the same thing is true for pumps, It can be optimized for high pressure or high flow. (and both I guess)

The 600L on the DD600P might be massively reduced if the pump has to move too much water, where as MCP355's 454L might increase since it rarely has to push 4.5m of head.

As for the screws, they can be bought virtually everywhere.. but since mine came with the radiators, I haven't bought any. I guess you will have to just look around.. maybe in your local tool supply store?

I hope this was understandable and helped you out









*Edit*
Sorry.. I have the MCP655, not 355


----------



## YounGMessiah

I dont see the video ??? Am I missing something?


----------



## CaptainZombie

I was wondering if this is possible with reservoirs when case orientation is horizontal? I have my 350D sitting on its side, now if I were to place a single or dual bay 5.25" bay res would it still function properly with the way I have setup the case?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie*
> 
> I was wondering if this is possible with reservoirs when case orientation is horizontal? I have my 350D sitting on its side, now if I were to place a single or dual bay 5.25" bay res would it still function properly with the way I have setup the case?


I don't see a problem as long as water from the res get to the pump you are fine.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YounGMessiah*
> 
> I dont see the video ??? Am I missing something?


What video are you referring to


----------



## Juggalo23451

delete


----------



## B NEGATIVE

An editor that can't use an edit button......priceless.


----------



## CaptainZombie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> I don't see a problem as long as water from the res get to the pump you are fine.


Ok, so recommendation is to keep the res filled all the way at all times so the pump doesn't burn out? Would the res get any leaks sitting vertically?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> An editor that can't use an edit button......priceless.


Can not do much if I am not able to access a computer and Just on my phone. I was able to fix it when I got access to a computer. Plus I am at work.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainZombie*
> 
> Ok, so recommendation is to keep the res filled all the way at all times so the pump doesn't burn out? Would the res get any leaks sitting vertically?


As long as it sealed properly and you do a leak test.


----------



## YounGMessiah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> What video are you referring to


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> For some reason my guide is not posted in its entirety. I will see if I can get this fixed thank you for your patience.
> If any one wants to still see this guide you can find it here
> http://pcwatercooler.blogspot.com/


Seems you saw what I saw which wasnt much  thank you sir


----------



## frozenfrag

.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frozenfrag*
> 
> I am completely new to watercooling. I am still confused with how to go about ordering all the items I need for a custom water loop. Is there any tutorial on how to completely plan the build? When I go to the different watercooling websites it is confusing because I don't know if the waterkits include everything I need. I also heard that the best performance is achieved with picking your own parts and not a kit. Can someone help me out or tell me everything I need for a haswell and gtx 780 waterblock?


That is why there is a description on the the kit includes. I also have videos about planning a loop to.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Sorry if this has been asked before.

Lets say I want to watercool a 7970.

I have one of the two options:

1. A reference PCB with the reference cooler that clocks at 900 Core and 1300 Memory for $300
2. A reference PCB with a non-reference cooler (like an MSI twinfrozr card) that is factory OCed to 1000/1400 for $350

My question is, between the two, which one should you get if you want to get the most performance while saving the most money? Essentially my question comes down to whether or not the completely reference card will be able to achieve overclocks that are as good as the non-reference cooler card that is factory OCed if they're put in the same exact systems in the same exact scenario?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before.
> 
> Lets say I want to watercool a 7970.
> 
> I have one of the two options:
> 
> 1. A reference PCB with the reference cooler that clocks at 900 Core and 1300 Memory for $300
> 2. A reference PCB with a non-reference cooler (like an MSI twinfrozr card) that is factory OCed to 1000/1400 for $350
> 
> My question is, between the two, which one should you get if you want to get the most performance while saving the most money? Essentially my question comes down to whether or not the completely reference card will be able to achieve overclocks that are as good as the non-reference cooler card that is factory OCed if they're put in the same exact systems in the same exact scenario?


Go ref,stock cooler,cheaper and you have a larger range of blocks,having a lightning is no guarantee of OC capability


----------



## GaMbi2004

I would go with option 1 as well. cheaper and you should be able to clock it higher than option 2 "stock OC" but no guarantee witch one will clock better


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Okay cool! So more or less OC ability largely depends on the cooling, right? I have a 360mm rad (XT45) and a 240mm rad (UT60) in my setup that first go to the GPU and then to the CPU.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Okay cool! So more or less OC ability largely depends on the cooling, right? I have a 360mm rad (XT45) and a 240mm rad (UT60) in my setup that first go to the GPU and then to the CPU.


185 posts and you still haven't put your rig in your signature? it makes it easier for everyone if we know what parts you have and only takes a few minutes to set up









How to put your Rig in your Sig

I have a 120mm and a 240mm cooling my system running 4.2ghz with temps around 50-60 load.
When I connect my external radiator, Phobya 1080 (3x360mm) I can go 4.6ghz with same temps~

So yea.. you will be able to OC further with more radiator space, but other things counts too,
would be easier to tell you more about if you had a sig rig to look at


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Oh, sorry! my rig isn't finalized yet as I'm still switching out some parts. I sold off my 7970 and waiting for the new 9th gen right now. But I'll put in whatever I have so far.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Thanks









For example, your ivy chip can be delidded to gain 15-25C degrees
Ivy and haswell uses TIM between the core and the IHS (the visible metal plate on the CPU) instead of solder,
To hold the IHS and the chip together, Intel uses glue. This glue makes a small gap between the IHS and the core itself, making temperatures higher than need be.
This "only" comes into play if you wanna OC your CPU over 4ghz or so.
My chip did 4.4ghz at 90degrees using IBT. I got it down to 70~ after I delidded it.
I got 4.6ghz at 70~ after adding external 3x360 radiator

about all the info I can give you unless you ask a specific question, hehe ^^


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Thanks a lot, man! You're very helpful! I'm not to concerned about CPU performance and if I need to OC it, 4.0 its the most I'll ever need to go to. Its the GPU that I need to squeeze the most performance out of. Once I get the 9000 series, do to school and work, I won't be able to upgrade it for another 4-5 years, so I just need to make this count the most.


----------



## jleslie246

If anyone is interested and wants to throw some system recommendations at me please continue reading.

I have the following parts that I want to build a water cooling system for (or see my profile)

CPU: AMD FX8350
GPU: (2) EVGA GTX 780 in SLI

What I know I want in the system:

Compression fittings
Clear tubes
bright red fluid (think PowerAde)

I will also need a new case. Unless it will fit in a Fractal R4? I prefer smaller than larger.

Thanks guys


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> If anyone is interested and wants to throw some system recommendations at me please continue reading.
> 
> I have the following parts that I want to build a water cooling system for (or see my profile)
> 
> CPU: AMD FX8350
> GPU: (2) EVGA GTX 780 in SLI
> 
> What I know I want in the system:
> 
> Compression fittings
> Clear tubes
> bright red fluid (think PowerAde)
> 
> I will also need a new case. Unless it will fit in a Fractal R4? I prefer smaller than larger.
> 
> Thanks guys


I have recommendations in my guide.


----------



## jleslie246

Hey Juggalo, is this a typo, fact, or opinion?? "Note: The mcp355(has 3/8 barbs) is slightly better than the mcp655(1/2 barbs)"

I thought the mcp655 was/is a better pump.

Anyway, this is what I have come up with. I still need to add in compression fittings and tubing. Thinking of going with 3/8ID:1/2OD Please let me know what you think. I am planning on ordering first week of October.

ex-blc-1375 Koolance CPU-380A AMD Liquid Cooling CPU Block - (No Fittings) $76.99 $76.99
ex-rad-146 XSPC RX360 Triple 120mm Radiator Rev 2. $91.99 $91.99
ex-pmp-220 Alphacool HF D5 Top - Black Acetal w/ Swiftech MCP655-PWM Pump Installed

Pump Top Style: Alphacool HF D5 Top - Acetal
Pump Style: Swiftech MCP655-PWM

$147.99 $147.99
ex-rad-145 XSPC RX240 Dual 120mm Radiator $72.99 $72.99
fan-674 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 1850 RPM (D1225C12B5AP-15) Hot Item !! $17.95 $89.75
ex-res-431 EK-MultiOption RES X3 150 - Liquid Cooling Reservoir (6 Total Ports) $49.99 $49.99
ex-liq-220 XSPC EC6 High Performance Liquid Cooling Premix Coolant - 1L - Blood Red $15.99 $15.99
Subtotal: $545.69


----------



## jleslie246

Oh, and for the case, NZXT Switch 810 matte black.

CPU: AMD FX8350
GPU: (2) EVGA GTX 780 in SLI

**EVGA Hydro water blocks


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> Hey Juggalo, is this a typo, fact, or opinion?? "Note: The mcp355(has 3/8 barbs) is slightly better than the mcp655(1/2 barbs)"
> 
> I thought the mcp655 was/is a better pump.


It is a fact the mcp3355 is better because of the head pressure. The Mcp655 comes close to it because of the gph


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> It is a fact the mcp3355 is better because of the head pressure. The Mcp655 comes close to it because of the gph


And the D5 is more reliable.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> It is a fact the mcp3355 is better because of the head pressure. The Mcp655 comes close to it because of the gph
> 
> 
> 
> And the D5 is more reliable.
Click to expand...

And the D5 strong at 24v has more head than any of the DDC's......

Whats with the constant reference to the swiftech nomenclature?

Its the D5 and the DDC,not the MCP whatever.....


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> And the D5 strong at 24v has more head than any of the DDC's......
> 
> Whats with the constant reference to the swiftech nomenclature?
> 
> Its the D5 and the DDC,not the MCP whatever.....


MCP655 is the same as the D5 and DDC. you can put the d5 or dcc in the first part of my first sentence


----------



## nleksan

I think you mean....
MCP655 is the same as D5
MCP350/355 is the same as DDC
MCP35X is the same as DDC PWM


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> And the D5 strong at 24v has more head than any of the DDC's......
> 
> Whats with the constant reference to the swiftech nomenclature?
> 
> Its the D5 and the DDC,not the MCP whatever.....
> 
> 
> 
> MCP655 is the same as the D5 and DDC. you can put the d5 or dcc in the first part of my first sentence
Click to expand...

Not this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I think you mean....
> MCP655 is the same as D5
> MCP350/355 is the same as DDC
> MCP35X is the same as DDC PWM


This.


----------



## rickyman0319

radiator outlet -> waterblock inlet then -> x750 outlet

radiator inlet -> x750 outlet

is this correct?


----------



## Lionheart1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rickyman0319*
> 
> radiator outlet -> waterblock inlet then -> x750 outlet
> 
> radiator inlet -> x750 outlet
> 
> is this correct?


Start from x750 then to waterblock then to radiator to cool off.. then back to x750..

Im assuming x750 is your bayres/pump combo?


----------



## jleslie246

I'm about to pull the trigger on some parts. Question:

Triple 140mm or Triple 120mm?

Case will be NZXT 810

Ill put triple in the top and a double on the front or bottom.


----------



## Dan706

Thanks for the vids, very helpful


----------



## Lionheart1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on some parts. Question:
> 
> Triple 140mm or Triple 120mm?
> 
> Case will be NZXT 810
> 
> Ill put triple in the top and a double on the front or bottom.


Triple 120mm


----------



## nleksan

Triple 140!!!

You get significantly more surface area than a 360, in fact it's more than a 480!

Fitment, even in Push-Pull, isn't an issue at all with anything about 50mm-thick or less, and even 60mm-thick can work in P-P with a very small amount of work.

There are a LOT more 140mm fans to choose from than there were 1-2yr ago.

You have the space, why wouldn't you want to maximize its use?

FWIW, I have an EX420 in the top of mine, P-P w Bgears Blasters 140mm fans, and combined with a UT60 240 in the bottom (P-P Koolance 120x25 2600rpm 106cfm/5.4mmH2O + Phobya 120x20mm Shrouds on Push), my Delta-T is around 3.9-4.2C running a 3930K @ 5Ghz and a single 670FTW @ 1300+/7200+ w 1.212v. CPU has never exceeded 52C in any game, and GPU has never gone above 37C period!


----------



## tmontney

You got the same case as I do


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lionheart1980*
> 
> Start from x750 then to waterblock then to radiator to cool off.. then back to x750..
> 
> Im assuming x750 is your bayres/pump combo?


loop order does not really matter as long as the res is before the pump


----------



## Panther Al

Looking at doing a loop with EK blocks, but outside of rad sizes, the only question I have when it comes to putting together my loop, is res size. Is there a rule of thumb for how large a res you need?


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panther Al*
> 
> Looking at doing a loop with EK blocks, but outside of rad sizes, the only question I have when it comes to putting together my loop, is res size. Is there a rule of thumb for how large a res you need?


I dont think theres a rule for a res, just get a res that fit perfectly in your case.


----------



## jleslie246

I am about to order my last few parts. This is my first build and I am really hoping that I dont forget something. Is there something that is commonly overlooked?


----------



## longroadtrip

deleted


----------



## jleslie246

Making progress. Still have one more gpu water block to do as you can see. I could use pointers with the loop flow. There is a 3x140 rad in the top. I may add more fans later. I made sure I had room. What do you think?


----------



## jleslie246

Sorry. Here is one not sideways. But without video cards. I'm doing acrylic btw.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Is Nickel+silver kill coil okay?


----------



## Rognin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Is Nickel+silver kill coil okay?


It's not bad short term, but you're better off with copper only blocks with a silver kill coil.

If you want nickel, maybe go with a corrosion inhibitor by one of the many respected fluid vendors.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Thank you!

So I have some copper blocks and 1 nickel-plated copper. Its okay to use distilled water and a silverkill coil with an anti-corrosive?


----------



## jleslie246

So I have my system running on water now (see my profile for pics).

My pump is variable. So at what speed should I run it? I dont see much temp difference between 3500 and 5000rpm. Maybe I will when I start overclocking gpu's?


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> So I have my system running on water now (see my profile for pics).
> 
> My pump is variable. So at what speed should I run it? I dont see much temp difference between 3500 and 5000rpm. Maybe I will when I start overclocking gpu's?


First off.. Great job! That looks awesome dude!
Why not post pics here? its not really fair to "force" ppl all the way to your profile







Some might not even do it :O

Anyways.. you have the mcp655, right?
Im using that one as well, really an awesome pump! I have mine running on setting 4, running CPU,1xGPU, 120mm rad, 240 rad, 3x360 rad

The pump runs it with no problems








I would say setting 3-4 would be optimal and not overkill in your setup.


----------



## jleslie246

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> First off.. Great job! That looks awesome dude!
> Why not post pics here? its not really fair to "force" ppl all the way to your profile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some might not even do it :O
> 
> Anyways.. you have the mcp655, right?
> Im using that one as well, really an awesome pump! I have mine running on setting 4, running CPU,1xGPU, 120mm rad, 240 rad, 3x360 rad
> 
> The pump runs it with no problems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say setting 3-4 would be optimal and not overkill in your setup.


Cool setup you have there too. What fans are those?

I was going to wait untill I finished cable sleeving and lights before posting pics here. I need my PC daily for work so I had to get it "running". I can do lights and cables later (sooner I hope).

I have it set just over 4 right now (spinning @ 4272 rpm).

The pump is a Laing D5 Vario water pump. It came with the EK - res/pump combo.

Idle temps: CPU 30deg C, GPU's 23degC
Load (gaming): CPU 42-47degC, GPU's 41-43degC


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> Cool setup you have there too. What fans are those?
> 
> I was going to wait untill I finished cable sleeving and lights before posting pics here. I need my PC daily for work so I had to get it "running". I can do lights and cables later (sooner I hope).
> 
> I have it set just over 4 right now (spinning @ 4272 rpm).
> 
> The pump is a Laing D5 Vario water pump. It came with the EK - res/pump combo.
> 
> Idle temps: CPU 30deg C, GPU's 23degC
> Load (gaming): CPU 42-47degC, GPU's 41-43degC


Thanks








those are good temps! what is the OC's?
You mentioned "should I OC cards?" so im guessing you got some kind of OC on the CPU ?

Regarding the pump: You cant have too much pressure! Well.. you can, but you would need a crazy ass pump to damage anything.. 4 would work for you, and if (like me) the pump hits a resonance area that would make noise (pump at 5 wouldn't make much noise, but the vibrations might.. mine dose, and haven't bothered to fix it since setting 4 works fine for me)
So just put it as high as you want and still be satisfied with the noise level.
If you still got some bubbles in the system, they will be a great indicator on the flow! if they move fast, you got plenty of pressure








Hope my info was helpful







"rep cough cough*

*Edit* The fans are "Phobya 180mm" 850rpm. have them running at 700 for dead silence
You can see more detailed info on them in my build log.
Might be obvious, but the radiator is external, connected with QDC's (quick disconnect fittings) so I dont have to move the entire setup for LAN etc.. running 4.2ghz without the big radiator at 60 degrees (max) and 4.5ghz at 50 degrees(max) with the radiator connected







Quite an improvement!
Also, I can lower ALL fans to silence mode and still get 50-55 max at 4.5ghz (23 degrees idle, 20degrees ambient)


----------



## jleslie246

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those are good temps! what is the OC's?
> You mentioned "should I OC cards?" so im guessing you got some kind of OC on the CPU ?
> 
> Regarding the pump: You cant have too much pressure! Well.. you can, but you would need a crazy ass pump to damage anything.. 4 would work for you, and if (like me) the pump hits a resonance area that would make noise (pump at 5 wouldn't make much noise, but the vibrations might.. mine dose, and haven't bothered to fix it since setting 4 works fine for me)
> So just put it as high as you want and still be satisfied with the noise level.
> If you still got some bubbles in the system, they will be a great indicator on the flow! if they move fast, you got plenty of pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope my info was helpful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "rep cough cough*
> 
> *Edit* The fans are "Phobya 180mm" 850rpm. have them running at 700 for dead silence
> You can see more detailed info on them in my build log.
> Might be obvious, but the radiator is external, connected with QDC's (quick disconnect fittings) so I dont have to move the entire setup for LAN etc.. running 4.2ghz without the big radiator at 60 degrees (max) and 4.5ghz at 50 degrees(max) with the radiator connected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite an improvement!
> Also, I can lower ALL fans to silence mode and still get 50-55 max at 4.5ghz (23 degrees idle, 20degrees ambient)


Yes my CPU is oc'ed to 4.4. It's a fx8350. I plan on going up to 4.6 now that I am on a better water loop. It was on h100i.

And I get a loud vibration noise at max (5) pump setting. Backing off a hair makes that go away. It isn't air though.

Working on lights now. I added two led fans under the top rad last night and just picked up an led strip to stick behind the res. pics coming soon


----------



## three6

Just a few questions. I have a H220 right now. I am getting a r9 290 and want to add it to my loop. I will be adding another rad(dual 140mm). I was wondering does it matter much where in the loop. ie h220rad/pump/gpu/rad /h220 rad. Or would a setup be better to go h220rad/pump/cpu/rad/gpu/h220 rad? would the be any gain in temps? anything significant?(3-5+/-).

Thanks


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *three6*
> 
> Just a few questions. I have a H220 right now. I am getting a r9 290 and want to add it to my loop. I will be adding another rad(dual 140mm). I was wondering does it matter much where in the loop. ie h220rad/pump/gpu/rad /h220 rad. Or would a setup be better to go h220rad/pump/cpu/rad/gpu/h220 rad? would the be any gain in temps? anything significant?(3-5+/-).
> 
> Thanks


Order of the loop does not matter. You won't see more than a 1-2 degree difference. Just go for whichever setup is the easiest for you and will look the cleanest.

Also, how thick is the 140mm rad? Idk if a 240mm and a 140mm rad will be enough for a cpu+290 block. Those things draw massive power, I'd go with at least another 240.


----------



## three6

I was looking at the swiftech MCR240-QP looks like it is about 31mm thick rad. what would you suggest?


----------



## grifftech

What size tubing do you recommend? Is there a benefit in the different sizes?


----------



## grifftech

How much radiator do you think I will need? I am going to be running a i5-4670K and a GTX 780Ti. Is a XPSC AX360 enough radiator? Or should I use the 360 for the CPU and get a 240 for the GPU?


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> What size tubing do you recommend? Is there a benefit in the different sizes?


Depending on what you are doing, the tube does not matter that much. Smaller 3/8" inside diameter (ID) tube is easier to route but can kink easier if you have tight bends. 1/2" ID allows more water to flow with less restriction but the slight extra performance is a trade off with thick tubes that are harder to route in your case. If you are concerned about it either way you can always go 7/16" ID and split the difference. The one advantage of 7/16" is that is the same ID as most G1/4" fittings. In the end, pick what you think looks best, it is highly unlikely you will notice any real cooling difference.


----------



## aiqingzhan

great info,i like that,I know there is koolance but to me there just to expensive. I am going for the best out there and the best budget. too


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> How much radiator do you think I will need? I am going to be running a i5-4670K and a GTX 780Ti. Is a XPSC AX360 enough radiator? Or should I use the 360 for the CPU and get a 240 for the GPU?


i5-4670K has TDP of 45W
780Ti has a TDP of 250W

295W of heat to dissipate. Based on the review I saw at http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/xspc-ax360-radiator/4/, it looks like that rad can handle 315W of heat with 600 RPM fans and still maintain 10C delta (very good performance). It should be plenty of rad for your setup even if you OC both. GPU's generate much more heat than CPU's, so if you did go 360 + 240, put the 240 on your CPU and 360 on your GPU. You cannot cool below ambient so extra radiator does nothing for you other than drive up costs and take up more space. Don't get sucked in by the peeps here on OCN with eight 480 rads, they are just having fun but it does nothing for performance. Save your money and just get that single rad for both.


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *three6*
> 
> Just a few questions. I have a H220 right now. I am getting a r9 290 and want to add it to my loop. I will be adding another rad(dual 140mm). I was wondering does it matter much where in the loop. ie h220rad/pump/gpu/rad /h220 rad. Or would a setup be better to go h220rad/pump/cpu/rad/gpu/h220 rad? would the be any gain in temps? anything significant?(3-5+/-).
> 
> Thanks


Your intel i5 3570k has a TDP of 77W but you OC'ed so maybe 130W give or take plus that 290 that has an estimated TDP of 250 gives you 380W you need to cool. That swiftech H220 rad dissipates about 140W w 1400 RPM fans (estimated based on martins review (http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/14/360-radiator-shootout-summary/). Adding a 280 rad should add around another 200W of cooling with 1400 RPM fans. Assuming you don't run both at 100% all the time you are probably fine. You could always bump the fan speeds under high load to 2200 RPM+ and it would jump that 240 rad to about 180W and the 280 to around 250W, more than enough.


----------



## rickyman0319

I have I7 4770k @ 4.6ghz ( 1.40v) . I have UT60 (240mm) . both fans run full speed right now. I am wondering if I should turn down the rpm like half the speed or just keep it that way @ full. right now I am only use push with UT60 rad. later I will do p/p on rad. will it make any difrerence at all or not?


----------



## Anoxy

I'm considering a bay reservoir, specifically the Monsoon Premium D5.

Will this be a pain to fill once it's installed?


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rickyman0319*
> 
> I have I7 4770k @ 4.6ghz ( 1.40v) . I have UT60 (240mm) . both fans run full speed right now. I am wondering if I should turn down the rpm like half the speed or just keep it that way @ full. right now I am only use push with UT60 rad. later I will do p/p on rad. will it make any difrerence at all or not?


Stock 4770K has a TDP of 84W, with your OC you are probably around 130W - 150W (at 100% load). I don't know what "full speed" is but based on Martin's tests that 240 should give you between 100W and 180W of cooling with fans running 1000RPM - 1800 RPM. (http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/14/360-radiator-shootout-summary/). P/P won't add that much extra performance but not a bad idea. You should run Prime 95 and monitor your CPU temps, then turn down your fans until it gets ~95C (max temp on that chip is 105C). This will let you know what speed they need to run under load and then you can go down from there.


----------



## rickyman0319

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatDog*
> 
> Stock 4770K has a TDP of 84W, with your OC you are probably around 130W - 150W (at 100% load). I don't know what "full speed" is but based on Martin's tests that 240 should give you between 100W and 180W of cooling with fans running 1000RPM - 1800 RPM. (http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/14/360-radiator-shootout-summary/). P/P won't add that much extra performance but not a bad idea. You should run Prime 95 and monitor your CPU temps, then turn down your fans until it gets ~95C (max temp on that chip is 105C). This will let you know what speed they need to run under load and then you can go down from there.


full speed of rpm is 1500-1600 rpm


----------



## grifftech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatDog*
> 
> i5-4670K has TDP of 45W
> 780Ti has a TDP of 250W
> 
> 295W of heat to dissipate. Based on the review I saw at http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/xspc-ax360-radiator/4/, it looks like that rad can handle 315W of heat with 600 RPM fans and still maintain 10C delta (very good performance). It should be plenty of rad for your setup even if you OC both. GPU's generate much more heat than CPU's, so if you did go 360 + 240, put the 240 on your CPU and 360 on your GPU. You cannot cool below ambient so extra radiator does nothing for you other than drive up costs and take up more space. Don't get sucked in by the peeps here on OCN with eight 480 rads, they are just having fun but it does nothing for performance. Save your money and just get that single rad for both.


How about the Black Ice GTX Xtreme 480? I will be using 8 GELID FN-FW12BPL-18 fans in push/pull


----------



## grifftech

Also will a single D5 Vario on a XSPC Photon 270 res be enough pump for a 480 rad?


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> How about the Black Ice GTX Xtreme 480? I will be using 8 GELID FN-FW12BPL-18 fans in push/pull


Should be more than enough

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> Also will a single D5 Vario on a XSPC Photon 270 res be enough pump for a 480 rad?


Will work fine as long as you don't turn it down to 1.


----------



## RatDog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anoxy*
> 
> I'm considering a bay reservoir, specifically the Monsoon Premium D5.
> 
> Will this be a pain to fill once it's installed?


Yes, all bay res's are a pain to fill unless you make a fill port and run tube down from the top of your case.


----------



## Anoxy

Ok another question for the seasoned veterans

Is there a specific order you prefer to put everything together when you get all your parts? I'm guessing get the CPU and GPU blocks installed, mount the radiators/fans, and screw on your fittings? Then what?


----------



## Panther Al

I think by and large the order isn't a huge issue: but then I am a newb too at WCing. System I am getting ready to put under water only has room for a pair of 240's and thats really pushing it for a pair of Titans and 3820 - which I am gonna go pump - Rad - CPU - Rad - GPU's - Res, so I figure I'll work the bocks on the cards out of case, block on the mobo out of case, and then slip the rads into the case followed by the pump-res, then Mobo and GPU's, since in a 350 they will pretty much take up the most room area wise.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anoxy*
> 
> Ok another question for the seasoned veterans
> 
> Is there a specific order you prefer to put everything together when you get all your parts? I'm guessing get the CPU and GPU blocks installed, mount the radiators/fans, and screw on your fittings? Then what?


Screw on the fittings first, make sure they are tightened. then install it all in the case and start routing tubes.
Make sure all the bends are good and not kinking in any way. If they kink, than you will have to put angle fittings to ease up the bends.
When everything is put together, you can:
A: Unscrew everything and take it all out of the system for filling / leak test.
B: Keep everything in the case, put paper towels under every fitting / connection and do the filling / leak test inside the case.
I used plan B since that is by fare the easiest method. Just let the pump run for a few hours before powering on your system to eliminate any chance of leaks.

Im guessing you already know how to power on the pump WITHOUT having any power to the mobo / CPU / GPUs? If not, do ask







Ill be happy to explain.

*Edit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panther Al*
> 
> I think by and large the order isn't a huge issue: but then I am a newb too at WCing. System I am getting ready to put under water only has room for a pair of 240's and thats really pushing it for a pair of Titans and 3820 - which I am gonna go pump - Rad - CPU - Rad - GPU's - Res, so I figure I'll work the bocks on the cards out of case, block on the mobo out of case, and then slip the rads into the case followed by the pump-res, then Mobo and GPU's, since in a 350 they will pretty much take up the most room area wise.


Yes, The order is of little importance, only thing is to have reservoir (Edit*)directly in front of pump so the pump NEVER runs dry.
In your case, with 2xtitan, ppl tend to have; GPU-GPU->Rad-Res/pump so the water going to the res gets cooled a bit before entering the pump / res.
I would only do this if it is possible without destroying the clean look though.

Edit*
Before the pump (aka, feeding the pump)


----------



## Anoxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Screw on the fittings first, make sure they are tightened. then install it all in the case and start routing tubes.
> Make sure all the bends are good and not kinking in any way. If they kink, than you will have to put angle fittings to ease up the bends.
> When everything is put together, you can:
> A: Unscrew everything and take it all out of the system for filling / leak test.
> B: Keep everything in the case, put paper towels under every fitting / connection and do the filling / leak test inside the case.
> I used plan B since that is by fare the easiest method. Just let the pump run for a few hours before powering on your system to eliminate any chance of leaks.
> 
> Im guessing you already know how to power on the pump WITHOUT having any power to the mobo / CPU / GPUs? If not, do ask
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ill be happy to explain.


Thanks, I'll take any and all tips you can spare









Powering the pump is just the paper clip trick right? Everything unplugged except for the 24-pin?


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anoxy*
> 
> Thanks, I'll take any and all tips you can spare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powering the pump is just the paper clip trick right? Everything unplugged except for the 24-pin?


Yes, everything unplugged, ALSO the 24-pin








How would you even paper clip it if it wasnt unplugged?








Meaning, unplugged from the mobo, plugged in the PSU.

Good luck!


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anoxy*
> 
> Thanks, I'll take any and all tips you can spare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powering the pump is just the paper clip trick right? Everything unplugged except for the 24-pin?


The paper clip trick


----------



## Anoxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Yes, everything unplugged, ALSO the 24-pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you even paper clip it if it wasnt unplugged?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning, unplugged from the mobo, plugged in the PSU.
> 
> Good luck!


hahaha it was late, my brain farted out. My 24-pin is sleeved though, but I'm sure there are diagrams out in the googleverse somewhere.


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anoxy*
> 
> hahaha it was late, my brain farted out. My 24-pin is sleeved though, but I'm sure there are diagrams out in the googleverse somewhere.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BadDad62*


The green(PS_ON) and any black(COM) will do. I usually use the COM right next to the PS_ON as hes own pic shows.


----------



## Brian18741

Hey guys. So I'm in the planning stages of a watercooling loop for CPU and GPU. Have a rough idea on the components I want but what do you connect the fans to? There will be 6 fans in total on rads, my mobo (Asrock z77 Extreme 4) has 2 CPU fan headers. Do I just connect them all to the PSU and have em run full whack all the time, even through an silent low voltage adapter thing? Or is there a way set them up to run according to the temps? What about cooling the GPU, it will be a different temp that the CPU or will the cooling be sufficient regardless? There's a built in fan controller on my case, NZXT Phantom 410, could that be utilised or is it safer without, dunno how low the low settings is on the controller. Thanks!


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brian18741*
> 
> Hey guys. So I'm in the planning stages of a watercooling loop for CPU and GPU. Have a rough idea on the components I want but what do you connect the fans to? There will be 6 fans in total on rads, my mobo (Asrock z77 Extreme 4) has 2 CPU fan headers. Do I just connect them all to the PSU and have em run full whack all the time, even through an silent low voltage adapter thing? Or is there a way set them up to run according to the temps? What about cooling the GPU, it will be a different temp that the CPU or will the cooling be sufficient regardless? There's a built in fan controller on my case, NZXT Phantom 410, could that be utilised or is it safer without, dunno how low the low settings is on the controller. Thanks!


I dont know about the ASROCK, but the ASUS Sabertooth has a software to run the fans according to the temps. Personally i use a fan controller for my fans, except for the cpu fan because for some reason the motherboard needs a fan connected to that fan header.


----------



## NukingNerdz

Hello everybody, I'm pretty noob with water cooling stuff but I would like to know that how can I know which way the water is going? like when i connect the tubing to cpu-res-pump etc.
let's say my basic loop would be res-cpu-radiator-gpu-pump-res, how can I know which way the water is going?
thanks!


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NukingNerdz*
> 
> Hello everybody, I'm pretty noob with water cooling stuff but I would like to know that how can I know which way the water is going? like when i connect the tubing to cpu-res-pump etc.
> let's say my basic loop would be res-cpu-radiator-gpu-pump-res, how can I know which way the water is going?
> thanks!


you should place the pump after the res, res-pump-cpu-radiator-gpu-res, for example. The pump pushes the water one way only, look the pump and identify the inlet and outlet of your pump.


----------



## NukingNerdz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> you should place the pump after the res, res-pump-cpu-radiator-gpu-res, for example. The pump pushes the water one way only, look the pump and identify the inlet and outlet of your pump.


Thank you alot! Now i got it


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NukingNerdz*
> 
> Thank you alot! Now i got it


No problem, enjoy!


----------



## Adrian-E

Hello everybody,

I am thinking about building a water loop that will look like this.

*Reservoir* (Koolance single bay) > *Pump* (Swiftech MCP35x with Koolance top) > *Radiator* (black ice dual 80mm ) > *CPU block* (koolance) >*quick disconnect* (Koolance) > *Radiator* (Phobya QUAD 480) > *Reservoir* ( EK-RES X3 150 ) >*quick disconnect* (Koolance) > two XSPC *GPU blocks* GTX670 >

My question is, will the one little Swiftech MCP35x pump be able to handle all of this?


----------



## morencyam

Yes, that single pump will handle that loop easily. You're going to lose a lot of flow and pressure having a second reservoir right in the middle of the loop without a pump after it. I'd advise just getting rid of that bay res and putting the pump after the EK res.
Or run the loop as such:
Bay res > tube res > pump > 80mm rad > cpu > 480 rad > gpu > bay res


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

got this built up in my fittings anyone know how to remove it?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2pacalypsenow*
> 
> got this built up in my fittings anyone know how to remove it?


A qtip with some vinegar may help get rid of that build up


----------



## Juggalo23451

Added a video how to make a terminal block.


----------



## Rhage

Are the current "best's" in the article up to date?


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rhage*
> 
> Are the current "best's" in the article up to date?


As far as I know yes


----------



## Brian18741

What is best rad/fan combo for a quiet WC set up?

I'm looking for a 240mm rad no more that 35mm thick and a 360mm rad no more than 50mm thick.

Ideally some kind of black and white colour scheme fans to cut down on modding required, something like the SP120 Quiet Edition or Alpenföhn 120mm Wing Boost if poss.


----------



## DMT94

Planning on watercooling this year and pretty confident on the parts and layout now but there's one thing bugging me, if I want to ever expand the loop or have to ever take it apart, how do you go about emptying the loop?


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMT94*
> 
> Planning on watercooling this year and pretty confident on the parts and layout now but there's one thing bugging me, if I want to ever expand the loop or have to ever take it apart, how do you go about emptying the loop?


when you are planning your loop, you have to make sure to include a drain valve at the lowest part possible, so you can empty your loop for maintenance.


----------



## diggiddi

Ok I'm trying to piece together a system and want to dabble a bit in the "black art" of closed loop water cooling








Anyway this what I'm thinking of putting together is it feasible?

Case: NZXT Source 530
Cpu: FX 83X0
GPU: Trifire R9 290
Northbridge cooler?? forget that

XSPC Raystorm D5 EX360 kit ----at Top of Case
+A 40mm or thicker 240 rad:- at Bottom of Case


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *diggiddi*
> 
> Ok I'm trying to piece together a system and want to dabble a bit in the "black art" of closed loop water cooling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway this what I'm thinking of putting together is it feasible?
> 
> Case: NZXT Source 530
> Cpu: FX 83X0
> GPU: Trifire R9 290
> Northbridge cooler??
> 
> XSPC Raystorm D5 EX360 kit ----at Top of Case
> +A 40mm or thicker 240 rad
> 
> at Bottom of Case


well, i'm not expert about watercooling components, but looks good. are you planning to include the gpu in your loop?


----------



## GaMbi2004

Should work fine.. the 360 kit alone should be able to run CPU/GPU/Mobo.
The added 240 gives headroom for OC and piece of mind.
The NZXT Source 530 should be able to house it all without problems. (I dont have the case, but some quick googeling confirms this)
What fan setup are you planing for the rads? push/pull or just push? low speed (low noice) or high speed?

*Edit
I found a few mobo blocks from EK that will fit your board: Link
Scroll down to MB NB and MB SB


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> well, i'm not expert about watercooling components, but looks good. are you planning to include the gpu in your loop?


Yessir and the Northbridge too


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Should work fine.. the 360 kit alone should be able to run CPU/GPU/Mobo.
> The added 240 gives headroom for OC and piece of mind.
> The NZXT Source 530 should be able to house it all without problems. (I dont have the case, but some quick googeling confirms this)
> What fan setup are you planing for the rads? push/pull or just push? low speed (low noice) or high speed?


Definitely Push for the 360, but not too sure about the 240, I need to figure what thickness is necessary, then that will inform me whether I can do push/pull or not, If someone can help me out with that I'd be most grateful, As far as Low speed or high, whatever I need to make it work is what I'll get, I'm not too picky


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *diggiddi*
> 
> Definitely Push for the 360, but not too sure about the 240, I need to figure what thickness is necessary, then that will inform me whether I can do push/pull or not, If someone can help me out with that I'd be most grateful, As far as Low speed or high, whatever I need to make it work is what I'll get, I'm not too picky[/q
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *diggiddi*
> 
> Definitely Push for the 360, but not too sure about the 240, I need to figure what thickness is necessary, then that will inform me whether I can do push/pull or not, If someone can help me out with that I'd be most grateful, As far as Low speed or high, whatever I need to make it work is what I'll get, I'm not too picky
> 
> 
> 
> I have read with thicker rads like UT60 or monstas, you dont need to run push-pull config because the cooling surface is bigger compare to a thinner rad. I'm have two swiftech 360 rads in push-pull and is overkill just to cool a CPU-RAM-GPU, I can run them just push or just pull and I'll be fine.
Click to expand...


----------



## diggiddi

How thick are your 360's?


----------



## Ixander

I run my fans at 50% and I don't need them to run faster than that, that's because I have more than enough cooling surface.


----------



## Ixander

I think they are like 34mm.


----------



## Ixander

and I'm using High Static fans, they are good for rads.


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Should work fine.. the 360 kit alone should be able to run CPU/GPU/Mobo.
> The added 240 gives headroom for OC and piece of mind.
> The NZXT Source 530 should be able to house it all without problems. (I dont have the case, but some quick googeling confirms this)
> What fan setup are you planing for the rads? push/pull or just push? low speed (low noice) or high speed?
> 
> *Edit
> I found a few mobo blocks from EK that will fit your board: Link
> Scroll down to MB NB and MB SB


I will be changing boards too, I'm looking at these three, Asrock Extreme9 990FX, Asus saber and Crosshair Formula Z
+rep though for pulling that up


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> I have read with thicker rads like UT60 or monstas, you dont need to run push-pull config because the cooling surface is bigger compare to a thinner rad. I'm have two swiftech 360 rads in push-pull and is overkill just to cool a CPU-RAM-GPU, I can run them just push or just pull and I'll be fine.


its the opposite. you need push/pull with thick rads. you can use just push or pull with thin rads. 45mm is thickest i would go with only push or pull.


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> its the opposite. you need push/pull with thick rads. you can use just push or pull with thin rads. *45mm is thickest i would go with only push or pull*.


+rep


----------



## diggiddi

This looks like it'll fit the bill Alphacool NexXos Xt45 full Copper 45mm $54
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_1075&products_id=32764


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> its the opposite. you need push/pull with thick rads. you can use just push or pull with thin rads. 45mm is thickest i would go with only push or pull.


The topic about push-pull vs push vs pull is always controversial. I think all depends on the components and the fans. In my personal opinion, I don't see the need for a push-pull config with high static fans, unless you want them to run at low speed, but that's my personal opinion.


----------



## diggiddi

This is a sketch of the setup


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> The topic about push-pull vs push vs pull is always controversial. I think all depends on the components and the fans. In my personal opinion, I don't see the need for a push-pull config with high static fans, unless you want them to run at low speed, but that's my personal opinion.


actually, it makes a huge difference on thick rads no matter the rpm. even thin rads benefit. high fpi rads benefit no matter the thickness. youre correct in stating it depends on the rads and fans. i personally use push/pull to run my fans slower. i love quiet.
martin did a big ol' test a while ago.
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/15/radiator-shroud-testing-v2/4/


----------



## Ixander

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> actually, it makes a huge difference on thick rads no matter the rpm. even thin rads benefit. high fpi rads benefit no matter the thickness. youre correct in stating it depends on the rads and fans. i personally use push/pull to run my fans slower. i love quiet.
> martin did a big ol' test a while ago.
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/15/radiator-shroud-testing-v2/4/


I agree with you, push-pull is the best option if you want the best performance, but is not always necessary, all depends on the amount of heat that you need to dissipate, and the size of your rads. In my case, I can run my 2 360's push only and I wont see a big difference, because 2 360's in my configuration is a lot of cooling surface to dissipate all the heat just with one set of fans. I know, its better to get the best of your cooling system.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

I would rather take a thicker rad over push/pull all day long.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> I would rather take a thicker rad over push/pull all day long.


Is it not only thick rads that benefit from Push/Pull anyway? Assuming their FPI count is 12 or higher with medium speed static pressure fans?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> I would rather take a thicker rad over push/pull all day long.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it not only thick rads that benefit from Push/Pull anyway? Assuming their FPI count is 12 or higher with medium speed static pressure fans?
Click to expand...

From what I have seen over the years,yes.


----------



## bobchen3298

Does anyone know how to bring the ph value of the water in my loop up? I just measured it with the litmus paper testing strips and i got values of like 3 or 4 which is quite unsettling. I've heard that a couple drops of regular Clorox beach can bring it up but bleach has a reputation for being ridiculously damaging to anything it touches so if anyone could offer any help it'd be appreciated.


----------



## GaMbi2004

What coolant are you using? if it is inexpensive, just replace it.. (how long since you did a full flush anyways?







)


----------



## pdasterly

first cooling system. I have koolance pmp-400 with t-virus reservoir. Would you mount pump directly under reservoir? or should I seperate the two


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> first cooling system. I have koolance pmp-400 with t-virus reservoir. Would you mount pump directly under reservoir? or should I seperate the two


Mounting is great if you can if not a short distance is ok. I've done it in my server and my current CM690 II









I love mounting direct to the res


----------



## pdasterly

ok, now can someone point me to a noob water cooling guide


----------



## bobchen3298

I just fillled it up like earlier this week. I would rather just try to bring it down instead of doing a full flush


----------



## pdasterly

noob back for some education. Is this a good spot for my pump, case is corsair 540? I read that you want to mount pump in the lowest position in the system?


----------



## Ixander

I dont think the position of the reservoir matters, as long as the pump is below the reservoir.


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> noob back for some education. Is this a good spot for my pump, case is corsair 540? I read that you want to mount pump in the lowest position in the system?


Looks like a good position









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> I dont think the position of the reservoir matters, as long as the pump is below the reservoir.


Agreed









As long as the res feeds it


----------



## pdasterly

ok, mounting cpu block, can I use thermal pad instead of paste on cpu?


----------



## Ixander

I've never heard anyone who has used thermal pad for the cpu, i wouldn't try it.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> I've never heard anyone who has used thermal pad for the cpu, i wouldn't try it.


This. Definitely use paste. Not worth the risk of killing the CPU by using a pad. The only pad style TIM that should even be considered is the Indigo Extreme stuff. It looks like a thermal pad, but there is a burn in process that melts it into more of a paste


----------



## pdasterly

i used the paste(mx-4), thanks for quick reply


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> This. Definitely use paste. Not worth the risk of killing the CPU by using a pad. The only pad style TIM that should even be considered is the Indigo Extreme stuff. It looks like a thermal pad, but there is a burn in process that melts it into more of a paste


x2! Go with MX4. I use the Indigo Extreme, and that install process took years off my life!

EDIT: and now I realize dude already went with MX4. One of these days, I WILL learn to read!


----------



## morencyam

i use IC Diamond or Shin-Etsu. Still haven't decided which i like better. i just need to do some performance tests comparing the two


----------



## Ramzinho

been using X-4 for a lot of time now..it's very good performance for the money.. i'm buying a new tube when i'm going to w.c later this year.


----------



## pdasterly

bending rigid petg, should i bend as a loop or 2 90 degree angles?


----------



## Ixander

IMO straight lines look better.


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ixander*
> 
> IMO straight lines look better.


Same here, round loops look out of place on a pc, needs to look mechanical. Any performance difference?


----------



## Ixander

no performance difference, just looks cleaner.


----------



## Ixander

are you gonna use rigid tubing?


----------



## pdasterly

Bought primochill petg tubing. I have some rigid tubing to practice my bends on also. Having problem with fittings from frozencpu. I have 10 ghost compression fittings and ordered the revolver cap switch over kit and only half of them fit cut my hands up trying to screw caps on.
Im gonna give primochill a call in the am otherwise I have to deal with frozencpu with their high shipping prices and long delivery times(usually around a week).
I will mount gpu waterblocks tomorrow and take some pics.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> bending rigid petg, should i bend as a loop or 2 90 degree angles?


everybody is doing "straight" lines nowadays... by different. Use helical spirals!


http://www.coppertubecoils.com/ctcg/tube-coils/copper-helical-coils.html


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> everybody is doing "straight" lines nowadays... by different. Use helical spirals!
> 
> 
> http://www.coppertubecoils.com/ctcg/tube-coils/copper-helical-coils.html


Those are nice, too bad i already bought clear petg tubing


----------



## afokke

Are two 480mm radiators plus a third 240mm OR 360mm rad too much for a CPU + 2 GPU loop?

I will begin shopping for the water cooling components soon. Performance-PCs and FrozenCPU seem popular. Can you basically order all of your desired parts at once and have them shove it all into a box to ship to you?

One more question, I am looking at the XSPC Raystorm CPU block, the pictures on XSPC's site show it with blue-white LEDs, can you get different colors for them though?


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Are two 480mm radiators plus a third 240mm OR 360mm rad too much for a CPU + 2 GPU loop?


This is OCN. There is no "too much".







It is overkill? Hell yes, but that's part of the fun of a water build. I have 4 360mm rads cooling 3 components, including 2 GPUs which aren't even overclocked. More rads does mean more hassle, fittings, and tube though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> I will begin shopping for the water cooling components soon. Performance-PCs and FrozenCPU seem popular. Can you basically order all of your desired parts at once and have them shove it all into a box to ship to you?


If you're lucky enough to find every part you need in one place then yes, it's that easy. But that requires either patience, good planning, luck, or some variation of all 3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> One more question, I am looking at the XSPC Raystorm CPU block, the pictures on XSPC's site show it with blue-white LEDs, can you get different colors for them though?


Sure can. XSPC sells loads of replacement LEDs in a decent range of colors.


----------



## Q5Grafx

I was wondering about running pyrex tubes in a loop, anyone done this? if so please post me some pics.

Thanks,
Q5Grafx


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> bending rigid petg, should i bend as a loop or 2 90 degree angles?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Might be difficult to get two 90 degree bends uber clean. One side is always perfect when using a mandrel. Usually the other side has to be eye balled and ends up loopy. You can use 2 90 degree fittings..


----------



## pdasterly

too bad they dont make 90 degree fittings for primochill petg tubing


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> too bad they dont make 90 degree fittings for primochill petg tubing


Why not a 90 degree single rotary?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=27723


----------



## pdasterly

never built watercooled system, so being my first system i want to keep the fittings and tubing the same brand to avoid compatibility issues


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> never built watercooled system, so being my first system i want to keep the fittings and tubing the same brand to avoid compatibility issues


No worries. As long as the primochill fittings have 1/4" ends, shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## ibnul7

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to watercooling. Just wondering what do you guys think about these no-name brands of waterblocks, pumps, etc

http://club.dx.com/reviews/287081/551146
http://www.dx.com/p/wt-020-43-53mm-hole-distance-transparent-graphics-card-cooling-head-transparent-silver-copper-286962#.U-J8fvldWiw
..etc etc


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to watercooling. Just wondering what do you guys think about these no-name brands of waterblocks, pumps, etc
> 
> http://club.dx.com/reviews/287081/551146
> http://www.dx.com/p/wt-020-43-53mm-hole-distance-transparent-graphics-card-cooling-head-transparent-silver-copper-286962#.U-J8fvldWiw
> ..etc etc


one word: RUN


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> one word: RUN


LOL, care to elaborate?

Anyone else like to comment on this matter? Looks pretty legit, just scared of quality...


----------



## pdasterly

im in the process of building my first water cooled system, why would you take the risk of using generic parts. I rather see you use used good working name brand parts


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> one word: RUN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, care to elaborate?
> 
> Anyone else like to comment on this matter? Looks pretty legit, just scared of quality...
Click to expand...

yes.. RUN as fast as you can, as far away from it

Put those side a side with established brands, look at a Watercool HK , an Aquacomputer cuplex... , EK... even the Phobya are miles better in finish/quality.

These aren't something like MIPS used to do.... maybe in time these might become something, but as it stands now... RUN


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> one word: RUN


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> yes.. RUN as fast as you can, as far away from it
> 
> Put those side a side with established brands, look at a Watercool HK , an Aquacomputer cuplex... , EK... even the Phobya are miles better in finish/quality.
> 
> These aren't something like MIPS used to do.... maybe in time these might become something, but as it stands now... RUN


what do you think about modding a Corsair H50 closed loop kit?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to watercooling. Just wondering what do you guys think about these no-name brands of waterblocks, pumps, etc
> 
> http://club.dx.com/reviews/287081/551146
> http://www.dx.com/p/wt-020-43-53mm-hole-distance-transparent-graphics-card-cooling-head-transparent-silver-copper-286962#.U-J8fvldWiw
> ..etc etc


If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, trying to go as cheap as possible when water cooling almost always ends badly. Sometimes it ends with ruined hardware, sometimes it just ends with having to spend more than you would have it you had just bought quality parts to begin with. Cheaping out on components that have water running through them to cool electrical hardware is not a good idea. You already spent a bunch of money on the rig itself, why would you want to cheap out and risk destroying all your hard work.


----------



## tmontney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, trying to go as cheap as possible when water cooling almost always ends badly. Sometimes it ends with ruined hardware, sometimes it just ends with having to spend more than you would have it you had just bought quality parts to begin with. Cheaping out on components that have water running through them to cool electrical hardware is not a good idea. You already spent a bunch of money on the rig itself, why would you want to cheap out and risk destroying all your hard work.


Cheaping out on *most* hardware is a bad idea, such as a power supply.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> Cheaping out on *most* hardware is a bad idea, such as a power supply.


touche


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> what do you think about modding a Corsair H50 closed loop kit?


If the goal is to modify it so you can use it to cool a DDC pump on a real WC/ kit, yes nice tinkering project.

If, however it is more like thinking that hanging a foxtail on a mopet and making vroem vroem sounds will qualify you for aTop Fuel drag race... weeeellll.

All Asetek derived AIO's are... well.. underwhelming ... puny pump, alu rad, cheap parts and most can t even beat top Aircoolers. ACtually, i wouldn't even call AIO's "watercooling"

Note: Swiftech H220 / H320 / H220-X and CoolerMaster Glacier are not Asetek derived AIO, so those AIO-alike kits are not bad


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to watercooling. Just wondering what do you guys think about these no-name brands of waterblocks, pumps, etc
> 
> http://club.dx.com/reviews/287081/551146
> http://www.dx.com/p/wt-020-43-53mm-hole-distance-transparent-graphics-card-cooling-head-transparent-silver-copper-286962#.U-J8fvldWiw
> ..etc etc
> 
> 
> 
> If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, trying to go as cheap as possible when water cooling almost always ends badly. Sometimes it ends with ruined hardware, sometimes it just ends with having to spend more than you would have it you had just bought quality parts to begin with. Cheaping out on components that have water running through them to cool electrical hardware is not a good idea. You already spent a bunch of money on the rig itself, why would you want to cheap out and risk destroying all your hard work.
Click to expand...

That being said, although these Chinese, Malaysian, Nigerian, Smurfs, .... noname blocks have visual 'imperfections"... they *could* be pearls.. so they should be given to somebody like Martin, Skinee, Stren, Bundy, ... for testing... i mean, you never know


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> That being said, although these Chinese, Malaysian, Nigerian, Smurfs, .... noname blocks have visual 'imperfections"... they *could* be pearls.. so they should be given to somebody like Martin, Skinee, Stren, Bundy, ... for testing... i mean, you never know


Yeah, it would be interesting because those blocks actually look really nice.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> That being said, although these Chinese, Malaysian, Nigerian, Smurfs, .... noname blocks have visual 'imperfections"... they *could* be pearls.. so they should be given to somebody like Martin, Skinee, Stren, Bundy, ... for testing... i mean, you never know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it would be interesting because those blocks actually look really nice.
Click to expand...

No they don't really... they seem that way because they are $10 cheaper as an established block. And you get what you pay for.

And any beginner should stay far away from them.

But an experienced tester should have a look at them, they *might* have soem performance dispite being hideous


----------



## tmontney

Why would anyone even have a discussion about cheaping out on watercooling?

*Choice A*

Be willing to spend top dollar for good, quality parts. Buy said parts.

*Choice B*

Only willing to cheap out on parts. Don't buy anything, stop what you're doing and stick with air.

I would never want to run the risk of my kit leaking on the rest of my build. Buying quality parts for watercooling is like insurance. You absolutely need it.


----------



## morencyam

Very well said tmontney


----------



## pdasterly

cant get tube perfect ruined a whole stick, anyway here's what i got so far. Used old tool case with rounded edges to make bends. I spent about a hour bending tube from mobo to rez and its still crooked, i guess ill deal with it for now


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmontney*
> 
> Why would anyone even have a discussion about cheaping out on watercooling?
> 
> *Choice A*
> 
> Be willing to spend top dollar for good, quality parts. Buy said parts.
> 
> *Choice B*
> 
> Only willing to cheap out on parts. Don't buy anything, stop what you're doing and stick with air.
> 
> I would never want to run the risk of my kit leaking on the rest of my build. Buying quality parts for watercooling is like insurance. You absolutely need it.


I went cheap the first time with barbs. Luckily I never had a leak.


----------



## morencyam

It might be worth it to pick up a monsoon bending kit. It has some different bending templates to help keep the bends looking clean and a silicone insert tube to keep the acrylic tube from collapsing in on itself


----------



## pdasterly

yes i need a professional tube bender and i don't mean a lady friend


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> I went cheap the first time with barbs. Luckily I never had a leak.


care to share your story?

i'm using barbs, just wondering what do I use to fasten them. Zip ties or clamps? And what kind of clamps? Worm, clip, etc....


----------



## pdasterly

use the same clamps from the company that make your barbs


----------



## 06yfz450ridr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> care to share your story?
> 
> i'm using barbs, just wondering what do I use to fasten them. Zip ties or clamps? And what kind of clamps? Worm, clip, etc....


Ive always used plain old hose clamps they dont always look pretty but you wont have any leaks, the spring clamps i've never liked, plus hose clamps and barbs are dirt cheap .

havent had any leaks

plus even if you did and you are running fresh distilled water your ok, if its been running in your loop for a while thats when you have to be worried


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> care to share your story?
> 
> i'm using barbs, just wondering what do I use to fasten them. Zip ties or clamps? And what kind of clamps? Worm, clip, etc....


I've been using 1/2" barbs with 7/17" tubing and NO clamps for over 10 years and NEVER had any leak









That's the only cheap way


----------



## morencyam

Or just eliminate the need for clamps completely by using 7/16" tube on 1/2" barbs. The extra tightness creates a hold strong enough not need clamps. I use 7/16" tube with a 1/2" plug on my drain line without any clamps and never had a problem.

EDIT: BadDog ninja'd me


----------



## RnRollie

for those that feel more secure if they have some way to clamp the hose on the barbs : jubilee clips (patented 1921)


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> for those that feel more secure if they have some way to clamp the hose on the barbs : jubilee clips (patented 1921)


I know it's nit picking I'd call them Hose Clamps


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> care to share your story?
> 
> i'm using barbs, just wondering what do I use to fasten them. Zip ties or clamps? And what kind of clamps? Worm, clip, etc....


The story is, I never had a leak.


----------



## pdasterly

Those hose clamps I dont trust, if you go that route at least use fuel injection hose clamps.


----------



## mend0k

Is there anyway to add a new block to an existing loop? I ask this because I am about to finish my new build and it will only have my 760 in it at the moment, but when the 880 comes out in october or so I would like to add that in as well and set my 760 as a dedicated physx card, but I kinda don't want to have to drain my loop out entirely and such if there is a way around it.


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mend0k*
> 
> Is there anyway to add a new block to an existing loop? I ask this because I am about to finish my new build and it will only have my 760 in it at the moment, but when the 880 comes out in october or so I would like to add that in as well and set my 760 as a dedicated physx card, but I kinda don't want to have to drain my loop out entirely and such if there is a way around it.


quick disconnect fittings?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mend0k*
> 
> Is there anyway to add a new block to an existing loop? I ask this because I am about to finish my new build and it will only have my 760 in it at the moment, but when the 880 comes out in october or so I would like to add that in as well and set my 760 as a dedicated physx card, but I kinda don't want to have to drain my loop out entirely and such if there is a way around it.


Yeah QDCs are an option but they are bulky and restrictive...
You can have the fittings already in place and use a mini-res or a male-to-male or female-to-female fitting at the location where you would "cut" the hose. But you would still have to partially drain the loop.

Oh, and you have to put the 760 in the 2nd PCI-E slot already, so you dont have to move it when you plug in the 880

However, when 880 is released, it may take a few days/weeks before full cover blocks are available; also waiting till a "black friday" or similar will save you some bucks. By then we're probably well into November (if not later)
Assuming you finished your loop in July... , then 4-5 months is not too bad to do an "evaluation" & some maintenance of the loop.. drain it completely, add a fitting/elbow/drain port, maybe even change the routing or loop order a bit.. things like that.

If your build isn't finished yet... rethink your loop.. build it with drain/fill maintenance in mind... if this is your first loop... then you'll be lucky if you don't need to some intervention in the first 3 months anyways.

Water cooling isn't maintenance free : checkup/clean/drain every 6 months is common. If everything done right, then drain/clean/fill once a year... If done everything right AND extremely lucky you can go 2 years with only topping up... but that only happens to "old timers"


----------



## mend0k

Ah ok but yeah this isnt my first loop, and my last loop lasted about 5 months until I sold it and when I took that apart it was pretty clean still









But I don't think I can wait until November for a sale il prolly just pick up another ssd or something by then. Also how do QDCs work? I've never used one before.. Lol

And I was going to end up putting the 760 on the first pcie slot so thanks for reminding me to not do that heh, that woulda been a huge headache.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mend0k*
> 
> Ah ok but yeah this isnt my first loop, and my last loop lasted about 5 months until I sold it and when I took that apart it was pretty clean still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't think I can wait until November for a sale il prolly just pick up another ssd or something by then. Also how do QDCs work? I've never used one before.. Lol
> 
> And I was going to end up putting the 760 on the first pcie slot so thanks for reminding me to not do that heh, that woulda been a huge headache.


checky here http://koolance.com/products?path=62_60

their QDC's are among the best.. and they should even have some documentation on how & what on them

but they will remain too bulky to fit between two cards
but you could bolt on an sli connector already, with all other holes plugged.. only to find out that the position of the fittings on the new 880 fullblock doesn't match that of the 760 block, rendering your sli connector useless

INFO in QDCs
see also: http://www.overclock.net/t/782498/qdcs-how-do-they-work-and-howto-choose-a-set/0_100

In short, QDCs are male/female pairs.. at one end they are either barb or compression fitting, so that's "normal"; on their "smart" end its a bit more complex.. but it comes down to push & click









A lot of garden hoses use a similar system.


.


----------



## ibnul7

So basically I want to put the Zalman LQ310 and Corsair h55 waterblock/pumps in series. The pump speed for the Corsair h55 is 1520RPM and the Zalman is 1480RPM.
For series operation, the flow rate needs to be the same. If the flow rate is the same (and pump speed almost the same), should I put them in series?

Thanks


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> So basically I want to put the Zalman LQ310 and Corsair h55 waterblock/pumps in series. The pump speed for the Corsair h55 is 1520RPM and the Zalman is 1480RPM.
> *For series operation, the flow rate needs to be the same.* If the flow rate is the same (and pump speed almost the same), should I put them in series?
> 
> Thanks


where did you get that idea?

Series is cumulative, any difference in rpm & flow rate hardly matters... as long as it remains sensible of course... teaming up a puny Asetek (eg Corsair) pump with an Iwaki RD30 is probably not a good idea

http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/26/pump-setup-series-vs-parallel/

.


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> where did you get that idea?
> 
> Series is cumulative, any difference in rpm & flow rate hardly matters... as long as it remains sensible of course... teaming up a puny Asetek (eg Corsair) pump with an Iwaki RD30 is probably not a good idea
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/26/pump-setup-series-vs-parallel/
> 
> .


Ya I was reading Martin's stuff along with some other flowrate/pressure curves, etc...
But ya, as long as they are sensible pumps (close to the same size )with close flow rates, it will work fine. However why did you recommend me to use larger diameter tubing. Is it to alleviate some of the pressure since the net pressure will be all the pump's pressures summed?

Thanks


----------



## RnRollie

did i recommend larger bore tubing?


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> did i recommend larger bore tubing?


No you didn't sorry







Was thinking of something else
Can the higher pressure build up blow the tubing off the barbs (if the clamps aren't tightened very well), or even cause leaking. That was why I was thinking maybe use larger diameter since Pressure=force/area. Larger tubing should cause pressure drop. However I'm going to need a bunch of 1/4'' to larger size barbs....

Any suggestions?


----------



## Ixander

deleted


----------



## scorpscarx

Should I be buying a reservoir pump combo instead of them individually right now, this is my first time water cooling. I have a ton of research to do about brands and stuff, but just felt like talking about it.

I also need to research more into tube sizes and compression fittings. Also how exactly do fans attach to radiators to attach to cases?

Right now it's just going to be a simple loop. I only want to cool my cpu and then later get a gpu block.

Am I even close with these being the latest and good brands?

Primochill advanced lrt tubing
switftech mcp 355 pump
I don't know what reservoir.
Black ice gtx extreme 360 rad, swiftech
ek cpu block
need to research fittings brands

Are the current bests on the first page, what you would recommend buying right now?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> did i recommend larger bore tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't sorry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was thinking of something else
> Can the higher pressure build up blow the tubing off the barbs (if the clamps aren't tightened very well), or even cause leaking. That was why I was thinking maybe use larger diameter since Pressure=force/area. Larger tubing should cause pressure drop. However I'm going to need a bunch of 1/4'' to larger size barbs....
> 
> Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Those AIO pumps are puny, one by itself doesn't even manage 1GPM, you'ld be lucky if they produce any significant pressure

Just a handfull of jubilee clips will do.. dont overtighten! If you collaps one of the barbs, you're even deeper in trouble

All in all, why dont you just junk everything and switch to a real W/C kit? Like the Swiftech H220-X


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Those AIO pumps are puny, one by itself doesn't even manage 1GPM, you'ld be lucky if they produce any significant pressure
> 
> Just a handfull of jubilee clips will do.. dont overtighten! If you collaps one of the barbs, you're even deeper in trouble
> 
> All in all, why dont you just junk everything and switch to a real W/C kit? Like the Swiftech H220-X


Ya that's true they probably won't even create too much pressure.
Lol I don't want to switch since I bought these two corsair+zalman kits for only $70 total. And it's for my cpu+2 gpus







A custom loop for all 3 would cost around $300


----------



## pdasterly

whats needed for uv tubing, I have clear tubing and going to buy some uv red from koolance.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Should I be buying a reservoir pump combo instead of them individually right now, this is my first time water cooling. I have a ton of research to do about brands and stuff, but just felt like talking about it.
> 
> I also need to research more into tube sizes and compression fittings. Also how exactly do fans attach to radiators to attach to cases?
> 
> Right now it's just going to be a simple loop. I only want to cool my cpu and then later get a gpu block.
> 
> Am I even close with these being the latest and good brands?
> 
> Primochill advanced lrt tubing
> switftech mcp 355 pump
> I don't know what reservoir.
> Black ice gtx extreme 360 rad, swiftech
> ek cpu block
> need to research fittings brands
> 
> Are the current bests on the first page, what you would recommend buying right now?


If i were you, i'ld be looking at Swiftech H220 / H320 / H220-X
http://www.swiftech.com/LC_kits.aspx
the ease of an AIO, the potential to expand like a real custom W/C.
OR
look at the XSPC H²O D5 kits
http://www.xs-pc.com/watercooling-kits/

They come with everything you need "in the box" , it's difficult to go wrong with these and a great hands-on learning experience.
You only need to replace the tubing that comes with them by Adv LRT, as the quality of those included varies.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Those AIO pumps are puny, one by itself doesn't even manage 1GPM, you'ld be lucky if they produce any significant pressure
> 
> Just a handfull of jubilee clips will do.. dont overtighten! If you collaps one of the barbs, you're even deeper in trouble
> 
> All in all, why dont you just junk everything and switch to a real W/C kit? Like the Swiftech H220-X
> 
> 
> 
> Ya that's true they probably won't even create too much pressure.
> Lol I don't want to switch since I bought these two corsair+zalman kits for only $70 total. And it's for my cpu+2 gpus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A custom loop for all 3 would cost around $300
Click to expand...

Fair enough.. just remember: you get what you pay for


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> whats needed for uv tubing, I have clear tubing and going to buy some uv red from koolance.


You want to add dye to the loop? blasphemy! Dye colour additives are the root of all evil.

There's a reason why the "old timers" are against them, i wont go into detail, but a few searches on the boards will tell you all you need to know... they are the source of all kinds of problems: from cosmetic (clouding, everything turning pink, ..) to serious (clogging up the loop)


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> If i were you, i'ld be looking at Swiftech H220 / H320 / H220-X
> http://www.swiftech.com/LC_kits.aspx
> the ease of an AIO, the potential to expand like a real custom W/C.
> OR
> look at the XSPC H²O D5 kits
> http://www.xs-pc.com/watercooling-kits/
> 
> They come with everything you need "in the box" , it's difficult to go wrong with these and a great hands-on learning experience.
> You only need to replace the tubing that comes with them by Adv LRT, as the quality of those included varies.


Thanks a lot for the input, I can't wait to get something rolling whatever way I go.

I'm not intimidated by going completely custom at all, if I went with a kit it would definitely be the XSPC or an EK kit like you suggested rather than the lower end stuff.

Basically though, I already have a ton of noctuas, and wouldn't just piecing it together be the same as buying the XSPC kit but maybe saving some cash in the process?


----------



## scorpscarx

Thoughts? All the same type of metal, copper?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> You want to add dye to the loop? blasphemy! Dye colour additives are the root of all evil.
> 
> There's a reason why the "old timers" are against them, i wont go into detail, but a few searches on the boards will tell you all you need to know... they are the source of all kinds of problems: from cosmetic (clouding, everything turning pink, ..) to serious (clogging up the loop)


Not entirely true. Most of the reason blocks were gunking up was because of plasticizer leaching from the tubing. The plasticizer gunk is normally a whiteish color, but when dye is present, it takes the color of the dye, which is why dyes caught a lot of the blame.

Don't get me wrong though, the old colored premixes and dye bombs were really bad and would separate. I remember seeing a bottle of Primochill Ice at Microcenter and the top of the bottle was clear and there was all kinds of gunk and crap sitting in the bottom.

The new stuff that's out now though, like Mayhems and the EK premixes, are all fine. I've had about 12oz of distilled with about half a bottle of orange Mayhem dye sitting on my desk for over a year, and it still looks exactly the same as the day I added the dye. No separation or anything like that. The only newer colored coolant that could cause issues with separating is the Mayhems Aurora. If it sits too loong the little nano particle start to settle, but as long as there is constant movement, all is good.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibnul7*
> 
> Ya that's true they probably won't even create too much pressure.
> Lol I don't want to switch since I bought these two corsair+zalman kits for only $70 total. And it's for my cpu+2 gpus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A custom loop for all 3 would cost around $300


why even combine them at all? Why not just get a couple Kraken G10 brackets for the GPUs and mount them all independently.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> You want to add dye to the loop? blasphemy! Dye colour additives are the root of all evil.
> 
> There's a reason why the "old timers" are against them, i wont go into detail, but a few searches on the boards will tell you all you need to know... they are the source of all kinds of problems: from cosmetic (clouding, everything turning pink, ..) to serious (clogging up the loop)
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely true. Most of the reason blocks were gunking up was because of plasticizer leaching from the tubing. The plasticizer gunk is normally a whiteish color, but when dye is present, it takes the color of the dye, which is why dyes caught a lot of the blame.
> 
> Don't get me wrong though, the old colored premixes and dye bombs were really bad and would separate. I remember seeing a bottle of Primochill Ice at Microcenter and the top of the bottle was clear and there was all kinds of gunk and crap sitting in the bottom.
> 
> The new stuff that's out now though, like Mayhems and the EK premixes, are all fine. I've had about 12oz of distilled with about half a bottle of orange Mayhem dye sitting on my desk for over a year, and it still looks exactly the same as the day I added the dye. No separation or anything like that. The only newer colored coolant that could cause issues with separating is the Mayhems Aurora. If it sits too loong the little nano particle start to settle, but as long as there is constant movement, all is good.
Click to expand...

Yes, but to rake up and old question: "what affects (PVC) tubing?" Water should should not be so agressive. But what of the additives? The stuff people put in their loops in the past







Automotive antifreezes, windshield wiper fluids, bleech, azane, ... And the dye wasn't always "harmless food dye" either.. from plain (ballpoint) inks, over (laserprinter) toner powder and god knows what crap to make it "glow in the dark"







A lot of this stuff was probably responsible for the faster deterioration of hoses.

But on the subject of plasticizer.... soon we'll be able to forfeit the (overly) expensive "high-grade" W/C hoses; and be able to go back to garden hose, like over a decade ago








Because "_garden hoses kill your children_" is ongoing for a few years now.. thus -wether it holds any water or not- because of media pressure and Health & Safety- garden hoses will soon be plasticizer free









http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/06/24/garden-hose-chemicals.aspx
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/watering-gardens-with-lead-bpa-and-phthalates-1.2659884
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/study-finds-garden-hose-water-dangerous_n_1615774.html
http://saferchemicals.org/2013/05/10/new-study-finds-hazardous-chemicals-in-garden-hoses/


----------



## pdasterly

so what do you recommend, I like that uv glow in the dark look. Im all in on this build, why hold back


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Thoughts? All the same type of metal, copper?


you can probably save 6.99 by raiding moms kitchen for a funnel


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> so what do you recommend, I like that uv glow in the dark look. Im all in on this build, why hold back


then buy UV reactive tubing, its the more sensible solution


----------



## pdasterly

Just looking for light, going to get some uv coolant I already have clear tubing.
cant decide on uv led or cold cathode. I want led but unsure of which lights to buy, I cant solder so it needs to be plug n play, white led's?


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> Just looking for light, going to get some uv coolant I already have clear tubing.
> cant decide on uv led or cold cathode. I want led but unsure of which lights to buy, I cant solder so it needs to be plug n play, white led's?


I'm looking for some UV lights too. conveniently the fans I'm planning on getting have UV reactive blades. so maybe I'll get some UV tubing, I just want to use distilled water as coolant. are there any recommendations?

also I have just found out about "X-flow" radiators, these have ports on opposite corners instead of both on the same side, are there any good models of these and what are some of its disadvantages? seems like it would make tubing routing a lot easier and cleaner.


----------



## pest1lence

This is what I have so far for my build

Swiftech MCP655 Pump
Xspc AX360 Rad
Frozen Q Liquid Fusion V Series 250 Res
EK Cpu Block
Primo Chill Tubing

I would like to also cool my GPU that I just picked up. A Evga GTX 780 TI Reference card. What do you recommend as far as a GPU block for this card. Also will my rad be enough to support the CPU and GPU?


----------



## ibnul7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Fair enough.. just remember: you get what you pay for


So I was really considering what you've said about getting the Swiftech all in one. So basically I will be saving on a total of $200 doing this ghetto loop. So this is the setup I'm going to go with:



So you think I should combine the loop by putting all 3 pumps/waterblocks in series? I'll save a good $20 by dong that


----------



## afokke

which of these black ice x-flow radiators is the best, and are there any other "x-flow" type rads out there?

http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-gt-stealth/gts-360-xflow
http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-alpha/pro-iii-xflow
http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-alpha/xtreme-iii-xflow


----------



## RetiredAssassin

Hello there









I'm completely new to watercooling and I've done a little research to find out the basics at least, some after reading some info here and there I came to a few conclusions and questions about water cooling that I'd like if somebody could tell me their truthfulness .

1. you'd want to use thinner radiator if you are using low RPM fans(and I'd like if you could approximately tell me what you consider to be high or low rpm fans for radiators) as opposed to if you want to use thicker rad(60mm, 80mm) you'd need to have high RPM fans?

2. how do I find out how many FPI a radiator has?

3. looking solely performance-wise which setup would give better performance/temps; low RPM fans with thin rad vs high RPM fans with thick rad? - NEITHER in push/pull configuration.

4. imagine the same situation mentioned above BUT in both cases (thick high rpm fans and thin low rpm fans) in push/pull configuration.

thanks guys


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RetiredAssassin*
> 
> Hello there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm completely new to watercooling and I've done a little research to find out the basics at least, some after reading some info here and there I came to a few conclusions and questions about water cooling that I'd like if somebody could tell me their truthfulness .
> 
> 1. you'd want to use thinner radiator if you are using low RPM fans(and I'd like if you could approximately tell me what you consider to be high or low rpm fans for radiators) as opposed to if you want to use thicker rad(60mm, 80mm) you'd need to have high RPM fans?
> 
> 2. how do I find out how many FPI a radiator has?
> 
> 3. looking solely performance-wise which setup would give better performance/temps; low RPM fans with thin rad vs high RPM fans with thick rad? - NEITHER in push/pull configuration.
> 
> 4. imagine the same situation mentioned above BUT in both cases (thick high rpm fans and thin low rpm fans) in push/pull configuration.
> 
> thanks guys


Too many generalizations being made. Thicker rads and rads with a higher fins per inch will benefit from more airflow, whether they get it from faster speeds or just a better fan or push-pull as opposed to only push or pull, etc, but when they do get sufficient airflow for their design they also tend to cool better, and 'high speed' isn't really necessary on any of them imho, but I guess there's lots of differences of opinions as to what 'high speed' is. I probably wouldn't really consider anything under ~1400-1500 rpms to be 'high speed' but that's just me. Also, a rad's performance mostly depends on it's design moreso than its thickness.

For example, Bundy's testing shows that a 56mm thick XSPC RX V3 is the top performing rad at 'low speeds' of 600rpms and 800rpms, and then an 85mm thick Alphacool Monsta outperforms all other rads at single-side fan speeds of 1200rpm or more, and even then the RX V3 is right behind it making it the top all-around performing rad these days for use at any fan speed.

That said, 1200rpms is not exactly 'high speed' imho and also it's worth noting that the Monsta moved into the top spot in that test somewhere between 800rpms and 1200rpms. There aren't any results shown for speeds in between. How did the Monsta compare at 1000rpms? One can only speculate. Also, Bundy uses NB PL2 fans that are OK, but not the best performing fans for radiators. Are the test results skewed a bit in favor of one rad or another by not using a fan that performs better? I would presume that using a better performing fan would yield slightly better performance results for thicker more restrictive rads at lower fan speeds than with the fans he used, but I'm just speculating.

On top of all that Martin's testing finds that push-pull tends to net performance increases from 15% to 30% over just push or pull on all rads, but with the highest gains to be had on thicker / more restrictive rads and less-so with thinner / less restrictive ones. Push-pull doesn't just offer better performance at the same fan speeds, it likewise offers similar performance at lower fan speeds, again, with the greater benefits of push-pull seen on thicker or more restrictive rads. It's also worth noting that Martin never tested a Monsta or any rads over 60mm thick. Would his range of performance gains by push-pull over just push or pull go even higher than 30% if he had? I would suspect so, at least by a little, but if that's indeed the case and if so by how much would all just be a guess.

What that means is that an 85mm thick Monsta in push-pull will outperform all other rads at even lower than 1200rpms, but AFAIK there's not been any specific comparative testing between various rads in push-pull to know for sure by how much and at what specific comparative speeds. All we can do is extrapolate from what testing has been done and to some extent tie that in with our own personal experiences. From what I've seen an 85mm thick Monsta will probably best most every other rad with fans in push pull at around 1000rpms if not a little lower than that, but I'm just spitballin', and I've not yet gotten my hands on that new XSPC RX V3 to see for myself what all it can do.

What can be gained from any of this?

You are better off to use comparative testing reviews of specific rads rather than just going by a rad's thickness in how well it will perform. If you have room for a thicker rad you might as well go for a thicker rad if it's a better performing one, and even better still if you have room & funds for fans in push pull.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> Just looking for light, going to get some uv coolant I already have clear tubing.
> cant decide on uv led or cold cathode. I want led but unsure of which lights to buy, I cant solder so it needs to be plug n play, white led's?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking for some UV lights too. conveniently the fans I'm planning on getting have UV reactive blades. so maybe I'll get some UV tubing, I just want to use distilled water as coolant. are there any recommendations?
> 
> also I have just found out about "X-flow" radiators, these have ports on opposite corners instead of both on the same side, are there any good models of these and what are some of its disadvantages? seems like it would make tubing routing a lot easier and cleaner.
Click to expand...

You have to look for REAL "blacklight" UV-A emitting tubes/bulbs (running from mains power). Most of the puny CCFLs you can get in "computer shops" emit something which is rather close to purple. So, you should be looking at stuff which is intended for the club/disco scene.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_light
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/everyday-innovations/black-light1.htm
http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/black-light.aspx

Most X-flow rads have the same performance as traditional U-flow rads. They are useful to simplify your loop. Say that you have a top, front and bottom rad, by using x-flow rads you can drastically simplify and cut back on tube routing.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RetiredAssassin*
> 
> Hello there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm completely new to watercooling and I've done a little research to find out the basics at least, some after reading some info here and there I came to a few conclusions and questions about water cooling that I'd like if somebody could tell me their truthfulness .
> 
> 1. you'd want to use thinner radiator if you are using low RPM fans(and I'd like if you could approximately tell me what you consider to be high or low rpm fans for radiators) as opposed to if you want to use thicker rad(60mm, 80mm) you'd need to have high RPM fans?
> 
> 2. how do I find out how many FPI a radiator has?
> 
> 3. looking solely performance-wise which setup would give better performance/temps; low RPM fans with thin rad vs high RPM fans with thick rad? - NEITHER in push/pull configuration.
> 
> 4. imagine the same situation mentioned above BUT in both cases (thick high rpm fans and thin low rpm fans) in push/pull configuration.
> 
> thanks guys


*See Unicr0nhunters response... its complete.*

TL;DNR

1. No, FPI is the deciding factor. "thickness" comes second.
For example: Koolance & HwLabs have "thin" radiators which are 30 FPI.. these would chew up most of the popular "bling" fans without blinking.
For Hi-FPI rads, you need High Static Pressure fans like a Delta AFB 120x38mm. And NO the Corsair SP120S is NOT a Hi-SP in this context:
Delta AFB1212M: 2500 RPM, 92 CFM, 6.5mmH²O , 38dBa
Corsair SP120HP: 2350 RPM, 63 CFM, 3.1mmH²O , 35dBa

The "best" fans for Hi-FPI rads are Delta AFB1212VHE & HHE ... in PWM mode they can run virtually silent while still delivering performance.. when they ramp up when needed, there is no competition. See their PQ-curves
http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

2. with a ruler










3/4. Martin & Skinnee : http://martinsliquidlab.org/ http://skinneelabs.com/

.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> which of these black ice x-flow radiators is the best, and are there any other "x-flow" type rads out there?
> 
> http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-gt-stealth/gts-360-xflow
> http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-alpha/pro-iii-xflow
> http://hardwarelabs.com/products/black-ice-alpha/xtreme-iii-xflow


Performance:
1. Xtreme III
2. Pro III
3. GTS 360 (warning: 30 FPI - needs some fanage)

XSPC does X-flow rads , not sure about the others like EK, Alphacool, Magicool, Phobya, ...


----------



## LOKI23NY

I have quick question about adding a drain port to the loop I will be installing.

I have the Swiftech h220-x and I am going to expand it to include my gpu. I will also be adding a front 200mm rad.

The rad has a port at the bottom of it so I was thinking this would be a great spot to add a drain port. I'm thinking I can cut a hole in the bottom of the case and just have a small piece of tubing with a fitting that has a cap on the end.

Just wanted to see if the idea I have is the correct way to go.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LOKI23NY*
> 
> I have quick question about adding a drain port to the loop I will be installing.
> 
> I have the Swiftech h220-x and I am going to expand it to include my gpu. I will also be adding a front 200mm rad.
> 
> The rad has a port at the bottom of it so I was thinking this would be a great spot to add a drain port. I'm thinking I can cut a hole in the bottom of the case and just have a small piece of tubing with a fitting that has a cap on the end.
> 
> Just wanted to see if the idea I have is the correct way to go.












yup tubing with cap..

or a "hard" extended ball-valve fitting with screw-on cap


----------



## RetiredAssassin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yup tubing with cap..
> 
> or a "hard" extended ball-valve fitting with screw-on cap


congrats on your water cooling gear _this is how you should do it._


----------



## RetiredAssassin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> *See Unicr0nhunters response... its complete.*
> 
> TL;DNR
> 
> 1. No, FPI is the deciding factor. "thickness" comes second.
> For example: Koolance & HwLabs have "thin" radiators which are 30 FPI.. these would chew up most of the popular "bling" fans without blinking.
> For Hi-FPI rads, you need High Static Pressure fans like a Delta AFB 120x38mm. And NO the Corsair SP120S is NOT a Hi-SP in this context:
> Delta AFB1212M: 2500 RPM, 92 CFM, 6.5mmH²O , 38dBa
> Corsair SP120HP: 2350 RPM, 63 CFM, 3.1mmH²O , 35dBa
> 
> The "best" fans for Hi-FPI rads are Delta AFB1212VHE & HHE ... in PWM mode they can run virtually silent while still delivering performance.. when they ramp up when needed, there is no competition. See their PQ-curves
> http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf
> 
> 2. with a ruler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3/4. Martin & Skinnee : http://martinsliquidlab.org/ http://skinneelabs.com/
> 
> .


thanks a lot for easy to understand explanation on this matter sometimes I think this is really hard to figure out what you actually want lol

I was surfing on frozencpu and noticed that they don't advertises how many FPI that does rad have, is it something that I should figure out myself or they are supposed to let us know in specs as well?

BTW: these Delta fans come with PWM connector or you mean I'd need to plug them to my own fan controller?

thanks again for detailed nice answer


----------



## RetiredAssassin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Too many generalizations being made. Thicker rads and rads with a higher fins per inch will benefit from more airflow, whether they get it from faster speeds or just a better fan or push-pull as opposed to only push or pull, etc, but when they do get sufficient airflow for their design they also tend to cool better, and 'high speed' isn't really necessary on any of them imho, but I guess there's lots of differences of opinions as to what 'high speed' is. I probably wouldn't really consider anything under ~1400-1500 rpms to be 'high speed' but that's just me. Also, a rad's performance mostly depends on it's design moreso than its thickness.
> 
> For example, Bundy's testing shows that a 56mm thick XSPC RX V3 is the top performing rad at 'low speeds' of 600rpms and 800rpms, and then an 85mm thick Alphacool Monsta outperforms all other rads at single-side fan speeds of 1200rpm or more, and even then the RX V3 is right behind it making it the top all-around performing rad these days for use at any fan speed.
> 
> That said, 1200rpms is not exactly 'high speed' imho and also it's worth noting that the Monsta moved into the top spot in that test somewhere between 800rpms and 1200rpms. There aren't any results shown for speeds in between. How did the Monsta compare at 1000rpms? One can only speculate. Also, Bundy uses NB PL2 fans that are OK, but not the best performing fans for radiators. Are the test results skewed a bit in favor of one rad or another by not using a fan that performs better? I would presume that using a better performing fan would yield slightly better performance results for thicker more restrictive rads at lower fan speeds than with the fans he used, but I'm just speculating.
> 
> On top of all that Martin's testing finds that push-pull tends to net performance increases from 15% to 30% over just push or pull on all rads, but with the highest gains to be had on thicker / more restrictive rads and less-so with thinner / less restrictive ones. Push-pull doesn't just offer better performance at the same fan speeds, it likewise offers similar performance at lower fan speeds, again, with the greater benefits of push-pull seen on thicker or more restrictive rads. It's also worth noting that Martin never tested a Monsta or any rads over 60mm thick. Would his range of performance gains by push-pull over just push or pull go even higher than 30% if he had? I would suspect so, at least by a little, but if that's indeed the case and if so by how much would all just be a guess.
> 
> What that means is that an 85mm thick Monsta in push-pull will outperform all other rads at even lower than 1200rpms, but AFAIK there's not been any specific comparative testing between various rads in push-pull to know for sure by how much and at what specific comparative speeds. All we can do is extrapolate from what testing has been done and to some extent tie that in with our own personal experiences. From what I've seen an 85mm thick Monsta will probably best most every other rad with fans in push pull at around 1000rpms if not a little lower than that, but I'm just spitballin', and I've not yet gotten my hands on that new XSPC RX V3 to see for myself what all it can do.
> 
> What can be gained from any of this?
> 
> You are better off to use comparative testing reviews of specific rads rather than just going by a rad's thickness in how well it will perform. If you have room for a thicker rad you might as well go for a thicker rad if it's a better performing one, and even better still if you have room & funds for fans in push pull.


thanks again for detailed answer sir







now I'm banging my head to understand more about this topic, hope soon I'll be able to figure out water-cooling related things on my own, gotta learn a bit towards it, thanks again man


----------



## pdasterly

Making progress, ordered wrong amount of bolts and unable to source locally so waiting again


----------



## pdasterly

can i use the ek terminal block like this? ek's website has the top fitting switched around. If the config in the pic would work then I would have one less bend to make with the tubing


----------



## Ixander

For Dual parallel use the configuration listed on step 3, otherwise the water will bypass the cards and will go directly to the outlet. Just change the top fitting to the left side and the stop fitting to the right side


----------



## gagarin77

Hi guys, I'm building my first LC. I already did some research on this topic, but there is simply too many different products to chose from. It would be great if someone could help me choose good parts.
The main reason I'm building this is OC CPU (I have Xeon X5470 LGA771->775 mod) planing to run it at about 4,7GHz 24/7 and over 5GHz for benching. But the looks is also an important factor. So far I decided on EK Supremacy Clean CSQ - Nickel which looks great with UV coolant. My PC case is old (2004), anyway it wasn't build with LC in mind, but I don't plan on replacing it as it is an ALU case. I will have to remodel some things to fit the parts or even add the whole "basement". My budget is about 300$. For now it will have to be a simple loop, with one water block and one rad, expansion will have to wait. I think I can fit 360mm or 280mm rad somehow. Any suggestions would be helpful.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> can i use the ek terminal block like this? ek's website has the top fitting switched around. If the config in the pic would work then I would have one less bend to make with the tubing


only if you have TWO GPU's
(and it would have to be a serial connection)


----------



## LOKI23NY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yup tubing with cap..
> 
> or a "hard" extended ball-valve fitting with screw-on cap


Thanks for the reply, would happen to have a pic of what you are describing?

I'm assuming something like this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14595/ex-tub-1034/Bitspower_G14_Mini_Valve_-_Black_Sparkle_BP-MVV-BKBK.html


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LOKI23NY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yup tubing with cap..
> 
> or a "hard" extended ball-valve fitting with screw-on cap
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply, would happen to have a pic of what you are describing?
> 
> I'm assuming something like this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14595/ex-tub-1034/Bitspower_G14_Mini_Valve_-_Black_Sparkle_BP-MVV-BKBK.html
Click to expand...

yup
something like that
Personally, i think the bitspower is a bit on the expensive side, but it IS a nice product that does what it says on the box


----------



## LOKI23NY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> yup
> something like that
> Personally, i think the bitspower is a bit on the expensive side, but it IS a nice product that does what it says on the box


Any other brands I can look into? That just happened to be one of the first I found. I agree it seems a little expensive for what I'm doing. If I was putting together a fancy full custom loop I could see spending more on fittings.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LOKI23NY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> yup
> something like that
> Personally, i think the bitspower is a bit on the expensive side, but it IS a nice product that does what it says on the box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other brands I can look into? That just happened to be one of the first I found. I agree it seems a little expensive for what I'm doing. If I was putting together a fancy full custom loop I could see spending more on fittings.
Click to expand...

they all have some... there should be more on frozencpu

of course, there is always : http://www.plumbingsupply.com/


----------



## Ramzinho

i was trying to find any tubing size comparisons for looks. i'm working in tight case if any one has a links for such a topic if it does exist. link it please. i'm looking at the difference between 3/8 5/8 and 3/8 1/2 i know the performance difference is minimal. but i just want to see how different they look. thanks guys.


----------



## pdasterly

My pump had mobo 3-pin fan header on it, should i plug pump into mobo or get molex adapter?


----------



## morencyam

Won't make any difference. Both are 12V so the pump will operate the same on either. The only difference is that if the pump has a tach wire then it will report RPM when connected to the mobo, but not with an adapter


----------



## pdasterly

pump mounting location, which is better?


----------



## morencyam

i would say in frontn of the psu. above the psu always makes me a little uneasy. neither one is really "better" than the other though


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> i would say in frontn of the psu. above the psu always makes me a little uneasy. neither one is really "better" than the other though


I see we think similar, the pro of mounting above the psu is that i would have less bends. Mounted upfront is going to have some extreme bends


----------



## morencyam

that's what angled adapters are for


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> that's what angled adapters are for


using primochill petg, primochill only sells straight compression fittings for that style tube.


----------



## morencyam

right, but angled adapters would work with the compression fittings


----------



## pdasterly

this my first water cooled system, so basically im afraid to mix and match. I'm sticking with one manufacturer(tubing and fitting) to avoid and compatibility issues


----------



## morencyam

No compatibility issues here. G1/4 threads are universal across all WC manufacturers


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> pump mounting location, which is better?


it doesn't matter...

if you've got a slow trickle leak when mounted ON the PSU it will eventually shorten out the PSU
BUT
if you've got a high pressure/spray leak when mounted NEXT TO the PSU it will shorten out the PSU

Thus it comes down to anticipating what kind of leak you'll get









You could mount a drip tray or a splash wall ... or both (pump in a box)









What is MORE important thou... this is a DDC , you should not mount it ON anything... the hot underside of the pump should be at least 1" above any surface.

.


----------



## afokke

Could someone kindly critique my planned loop and offer component suggestions? Here is one of those crude MS Paint drawings, I think it's clear what I'd like to do:



And here is what I have so far in my planned component list:

*case*: CaseLabs Merlin SM8 in white. Plenty flexible and roomy.

*motherboard*: ASUS Z97 Sabertooth Mark 1. I'd like to paint the thermal armor white.

*processor block*: EK Supremacy Nickel

*video block*: EK-FC R9 290 Nickel (x2 for 2 R9 290 cards)

I think I will also get 2 backplates, and the EK-FC Terminal Dual Serial to connect the two GPU blocks. Is there a semi-translucent plexi version of this? I believe the above EK CPU/GPU blocks I listed are translucent so if/when I decide to go with colored coolant it will show nicely









*tubes*: Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT

*coolant*: just distilled water to start. Though, I just adore the look of Mayhems Pastel (future maybe). What would happen if you used orange juice as coolant.

The following are undecided:

*pump*: some MCP655 of course. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around exactly how this gets linked up to the rest of the loop. Some things I know are that it has 1/2" barbs so I will need to find a way to make it compatible with the 3/8" ID tubing I want to get. Sometimes this is sold as a combo with a res, in which case it's directly attached to the res? I don't get exactly how it's otherwise attached to the res, or where/how to mount it in a case. There never seem to be any clear pictures of it in build logs. I just see a pretty tube res and the tubing is routed somewhere and magically returns and connects to a block or rad, no pump to be seen. How is it powered? Molex?

*rads*: I will get 2 360mm rads, but haven't decided what models. I will go for low/mid FPI because I don't want high RPM fans.

*fittings*: some stuff from Bitspower or Monsoon. I haven't looked at these in details yet. There are overwhelming number of options. I think I have seen some that are UV reactive, which is cool, I would like some such elements in my loop so I can shove a black light in the case some accent lighting.

*res*: some tube res. I'm looking at a Bitspower Water Tank, possibly.

...

Sometimes I see a piece of tubing leading from the top of the res to the top of the case, I'm guessing this is a fill port.

What would be the best place to put a drain port? I think somewhere at the bottom of the loop because gravity. Does it require a special type of fitting?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Won't make any difference. Both are 12V so the pump will operate the same on either. The only difference is that if the pump has a tach wire then it will report RPM when connected to the mobo, but not with an adapter


Do you really think that hooking an 18W (not to mention startup draw) motor to a MB header is a good idea?

Unless the MB manufacturer is willing to draw up a document signed in blood that says the MB header is rated 2Amps, i wouldn't do it.


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Do you really think that hooking an 18W (not to mention startup draw) motor to a MB header is a good idea?
> 
> Unless the MB manufacturer is willing to draw up a document signed in blood that says the MB header is rated 2Amps, i wouldn't do it.


Not to say the other guy was wrong but I use the forum as a tool and come to my own conclusions. I already figured that one out, Going to run pump to a molex connector
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Could someone kindly critique my planned loop and offer component suggestions? Here is one of those crude MS Paint drawings, I think it's clear what I'd like to do:
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what I have so far in my planned component list:
> 
> *case*: CaseLabs Merlin SM8 in white. Plenty flexible and roomy.
> 
> *motherboard*: ASUS Z97 Sabertooth Mark 1. I'd like to paint the thermal armor white.
> 
> *processor block*: EK Supremacy Nickel
> 
> *video block*: EK-FC R9 290 Nickel (x2 for 2 R9 290 cards)
> 
> I think I will also get 2 backplates, and the EK-FC Terminal Dual Serial to connect the two GPU blocks. Is there a semi-translucent plexi version of this? I believe the above EK CPU/GPU blocks I listed are translucent so if/when I decide to go with colored coolant it will show nicely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tubes*: Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT
> 
> *coolant*: just distilled water to start. Though, I just adore the look of Mayhems Pastel (future maybe). What would happen if you used orange juice as coolant.
> 
> The following are undecided:
> 
> *pump*: some MCP655 of course. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around exactly how this gets linked up to the rest of the loop. Some things I know are that it has 1/2" barbs so I will need to find a way to make it compatible with the 3/8" ID tubing I want to get. Sometimes this is sold as a combo with a res, in which case it's directly attached to the res? I don't get exactly how it's otherwise attached to the res, or where/how to mount it in a case. There never seem to be any clear pictures of it in build logs. I just see a pretty tube res and the tubing is routed somewhere and magically returns and connects to a block or rad, no pump to be seen. How is it powered? Molex?
> 
> *rads*: I will get 2 360mm rads, but haven't decided what models. I will go for low/mid FPI because I don't want high RPM fans.
> 
> *fittings*: some stuff from Bitspower or Monsoon. I haven't looked at these in details yet. There are overwhelming number of options. I think I have seen some that are UV reactive, which is cool, I would like some such elements in my loop so I can shove a black light in the case some accent lighting.
> 
> *res*: some tube res. I'm looking at a Bitspower Water Tank, possibly.
> 
> ...
> 
> Sometimes I see a piece of tubing leading from the top of the res to the top of the case, I'm guessing this is a fill port.
> 
> What would be the best place to put a drain port? I think somewhere at the bottom of the loop because gravity. Does it require a special type of fitting?


ek only sells black fc terminals, the others(bridge) wont work on the 290x waterblocks, I was up late looking up parts. OJ has a ton of acid in it, but I don't know


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Could someone kindly critique my planned loop and offer component suggestions? Here is one of those crude MS Paint drawings, I think it's clear what I'd like to do:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: --snip--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what I have so far in my planned component list:
> 
> *case*: CaseLabs Merlin SM8 in white. Plenty flexible and roomy.
> 
> *motherboard*: ASUS Z97 Sabertooth Mark 1. I'd like to paint the thermal armor white.
> 
> *processor block*: EK Supremacy Nickel
> 
> *video block*: EK-FC R9 290 Nickel (x2 for 2 R9 290 cards)
> 
> I think I will also get 2 backplates, and the EK-FC Terminal Dual Serial to connect the two GPU blocks. Is there a semi-translucent plexi version of this? I believe the above EK CPU/GPU blocks I listed are translucent so if/when I decide to go with colored coolant it will show nicely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tubes*: Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> *coolant*: just distilled water to start. Though, I just adore the look of Mayhems Pastel (future maybe). What would happen if you used orange juice as coolant.


Really, i'ld stick to distilled & silver coil if were you... if you REALLY want to put something extra in the loop then pour this into it http://www.fishpond.com/Beauty/250ml-Organic-Colloidal-Silver-45ppm-MSM-FREE-DELIVERY/0700621495000



Spoiler: --snip--



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> The following are undecided:
> 
> *pump*: some MCP655 of course. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around exactly how this gets linked up to the rest of the loop. Some things I know are that it has 1/2" barbs so I will need to find a way to make it compatible with the 3/8" ID tubing I want to get. Sometimes this is sold as a combo with a res, in which case it's directly attached to the res? I don't get exactly how it's otherwise attached to the res, or where/how to mount it in a case. There never seem to be any clear pictures of it in build logs. I just see a pretty tube res and the tubing is routed somewhere and magically returns and connects to a block or rad, no pump to be seen. How is it powered? Molex?
> 
> *rads*: I will get 2 360mm rads, but haven't decided what models. I will go for low/mid FPI because I don't want high RPM fans.
> 
> *fittings*: some stuff from Bitspower or Monsoon. I haven't looked at these in details yet. There are overwhelming number of options. I think I have seen some that are UV reactive, which is cool, I would like some such elements in my loop so I can shove a black light in the case some accent lighting.
> 
> *res*: some tube res. I'm looking at a Bitspower Water Tank, possibly.
> 
> ...





Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Sometimes I see a piece of tubing leading from the top of the res to the top of the case, I'm guessing this is a fill port.
> 
> What would be the best place to put a drain port? I think somewhere at the bottom of the loop because gravity. Does it require a special type of fitting?


One tip, for whatever radiator you put in the roof of the case..; use a multiport one... it will make life much easier for filling & bleeding

Drain port at the lowest point in the bottom... a simple plugged T will do, but you could use a real ball valve if you want to (not cheap thou)


----------



## mend0k

My drain valve = cutting my outside tubing xD

But what do you mean by multiport as I do have a radiator mounted up top and now I do wonder how to bleed it?

Btw my CPU block comes in today but I totally forgot about buying some biocide who h I just ordered and will come maybe fri or sat, my question is will I be ok without any biocide for 2-3 days?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mend0k*
> 
> My drain valve = cutting my outside tubing xD
> 
> But what do you mean by multiport as I do have a radiator mounted up top and now I do wonder how to bleed it?
> 
> Btw my CPU block comes in today but I totally forgot about buying some biocide who h I just ordered and will come maybe fri or sat, my question is will I be ok without any biocide for 2-3 days?


As long as you aren't filling it with lake water, you'll be fine for a few days


----------



## mend0k

Dangit I knew I shouldn't of bought this gallon of arrowhead spring water... That comes from a spring so its fine right?


----------



## morencyam

I use toilet water in a pinch


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mend0k*
> 
> My drain valve = cutting my outside tubing xD
> 
> But what do you mean by *multiport* as I do have a *radiator* mounted up top and now I do wonder how to bleed it?
> 
> Btw my CPU block comes in today but I totally forgot about buying some biocide who h I just ordered and will come maybe fri or sat, my question is will I be ok without any biocide for 2-3 days?


this


----------



## fleetfeather

I've approximated that Radiator Set A below is roughly equivalent to Radiator Set B in terms of heat capacity.

Radiator Set A
1x dual 92mm radiator, 54mm thick, 16FPI (440W)
1x single 140mm radiator, 30mm thick, 16FPI (370W)

Radiator Set B
1x dual 140mm radiator, 30mm thick, 16FPI (800W)

However, how does Capacity of a radiator translate in real-world performance? Based on the rated heat capacity of both Radiator Sets above, would a user expect to see similar temps between the two setups if the same CPU/VGA blocks + similar tubing runs were used?


----------



## afokke

currently am in the process of choosing fittings, I have decided to go with Bitspower to be safe, but they must have a least a thousand different choices, how does one choose







all I want are some "fittings" and a few 45- and 90-degree fittings/adapters/extenders (is there a difference between those three?), and possibly whatever special type of fitting you need to make a drain port. are the Black Sparkle ones good?


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> currently am in the process of choosing fittings, I have decided to go with Bitspower to be safe, but they must have a least a thousand different choices, how does one choose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all I want are some "fittings" and a few 45- and 90-degree fittings/adapters/extenders (is there a difference between those three?), and possibly whatever special type of fitting you need to make a drain port. are the Black Sparkle ones good?


make a scheme of what you are planning then we might be able to help


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzinho*
> 
> make a scheme of what you are planning then we might be able to help


Sure, here is one of those crude MS Paint drawings:



not planning on rigid tubing, I just drew them straight because I couldn't draw curves with my mouse







360mm rads on the top and front and res/pump mounted somewhere in the middle there.


----------



## Domiro

Looking to start watercooling and I've a few questions.

- 360 EK Coolstream PE for a single R9 290 and 4670K. If I were to add a second R9 290, would adding a single 120 Rad suffice? (Assuming, for the moment, no OC).
- Planning on using EK-HDC Fitting 12mm G1/4 for copper tubing (Tubing is 12mm OD, 10mm ID). I haven't found much information on these, what's the general concensus on them? (Or any fittings for copper tubing for that matter)

Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domiro*
> 
> Looking to start watercooling and I've a few questions.
> 
> - 360 EK Coolstream PE for a single R9 290 and 4670K. If I were to add a second R9 290, would adding a single 120 Rad suffice? (Assuming, for the moment, no OC).
> - Planning on using EK-HDC Fitting 12mm G1/4 for copper tubing (Tubing is 12mm OD, 10mm ID). I haven't found much information on these, what's the general concensus on them? (Or any fittings for copper tubing for that matter)
> 
> Any help is much appreciated.


"rule of thumb"
CPU = min 120.1 , 120.2 for silent/mild O/C
GPU = min 120.2 , 120.3 for silent/mild O/C & R9

Thus: CPU + GPU Xfire/sli => 120.5 to 120.8
Note: An external 120.9 like the MO-RA3 makes more sense.. always


----------



## mend0k

Im not sure of the regular temps for a 4930k but mine seems to be reaching the liow ~70s during stress testing quite quickly, is it because I have too many rads? and the single mcp35x isnt strong enough so my flow suffers? Im going to be CF'ing some 290x's in a month and going to have them underwater so should I just go dual loop for my GPU and CPU? or should I just add another pump?


----------



## morencyam

that pump is plenty strong for your loop, assuming what you have in you sig rig is the loop you mean. I've seen it handle a loop with 6 radiators, CPU, dual ram, mobo, and quad GPUs without even flinching

I'm thinking maybe you got a bad mount. Have you tried reseating the block?


----------



## mend0k

Nah not yet I probably will when I get my GPU's and redo some of my loop. But I think its just cuz the 4930k has temp issues no?

Anyway I set my yates on high while I stress test and temps seem to be better







they only spike to the 70's now. Although I did use some AS5 in a line horizontally, maybe that wasn't the best option to apply the TIM?


----------



## morencyam

There are so many different "best way to apply TIM" tutorials and videos out there, the truth is, it doesn't matter how you apply it, just as long as it gets an even spread when you mount the block. For example, I make 5 small dabs in an X shape and my buddy puts 9 tiny dabs, 3x3, evenly spaced over the IHS. Neither one is more right than the other, and we get similar spreads.

Could also be, like you said, the chip is just running hot and there isn't much to be done about it. No matter how many rads you throw at it, it will never get any cooler, unless you add a chiller or something of the like


----------



## mend0k

Wierd though I just read somewhere that someone was running their 4930k for 12 hours at ~65c? And their volt was at 1.38/9 how is their temps so low?


----------



## morencyam

No two chips are the same. Maybe he just got a chip from a better batch or something.


----------



## ibnul7

Hey guys, so I just had a couple of questions...
I tore down my two r9 280x's so I could do my watercooling on them, but this is what I found. I ordered Gelid Solutions VRM Coolers from eBay two weeks back for my reference card since I thought the stock heatsinks weren't sufficient. After cracking it open, I realized they're actually pretty big.... If I still wanted to use the after market Gelid heatsinks, I would still need to buy tiny heatsinks for the little chips (as you can see multiple mini thermal pads under the stock cooler). Should I just use the Gelid anyways?

Also do I need aftermarket heatsinks for RAM, or is heatsink/rigidity plate enough?

Thanks

Gelid Solutions VRM Cooler: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GELID-Icy-Vision-AMD-HD6900-Rev-2-PCB-6950-6970-VRM-Cooling-Enhancement-Kit-/161014946488?pt=US_Video_Card_GPU_Cooling&hash=item257d3d1ab8&_uhb=1


----------



## Domiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> "rule of thumb"
> CPU = min 120.1 , 120.2 for silent/mild O/C
> GPU = min 120.2 , 120.3 for silent/mild O/C & R9
> 
> Thus: CPU + GPU Xfire/sli => 120.5 to 120.8
> Note: An external 120.9 like the MO-RA3 makes more sense.. always


Thanks for the info.

I was hoping to get everything into a Define R4 without it becoming filled to the brim. I might hold out for the Enthoo Luxe then, and go with 120.5/140.5


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> "rule of thumb"
> CPU = min 120.1 , 120.2 for silent/mild O/C
> GPU = min 120.2 , 120.3 for silent/mild O/C & R9
> 
> Thus: CPU + GPU Xfire/sli => 120.5 to 120.8
> Note: An external 120.9 like the MO-RA3 makes more sense.. always


I've never heard of such an _EXTREME_ 'rule of thumb'.









I've always seen mentioned 120 of rad for each component being cooled plus most will recommend / add to that one extra 120 of rad for some room to overclock. ex: 120*4 for a CPU + 2 GPUs. I'd venture to say that the overwhelming majority of watercooling builds posted in the OCN Watercooling Club thread do not have enough rad to meet your 'rule of thumb'. Heck, I've seen people like @WiSK with an OC'd CPU & GPU on a single 120 rad loop who didn't have bad temps at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Valgaur*
> 
> 3 280x's and 4770K on full load though?
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the discussion about rule-of-thumb. You need exactly 5x120 rad to cool that, no more and no less
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Usually the rule of thumb is 120mm of rad per component. In this case you have a cpu and 4 gpuz. Two 360s would be minimum imo. Two 480mm would be ideal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space per component plus an additional 120mm rad on top of that. [...]


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> no basic rule of thumb for min cooling is 120mm rad for every component in your loop +120


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jamaican Reaper*
> 
> That's correct,the rules are 1x120 rad per block/core plus an additional 120 rad (480mm of rad space)....So you need at least 2x240 (480mm),even better 1x360 and 1x240 (600mm of rad space) for a little headroom....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the general rule of thumb is 120 for each component and an additional 120. So in your case, one 360 rad, or a 240 and a 120


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> Still good enough. The commonly used rule is Nof 120mm radiators = Nof components + 1, so you have one 120mm radiator space more than you need. Remember that RAM or mother board blocks doesn't go to the equation.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> [...] rule of thumb 120mm of rad per component plus another 120 on top of that... [...]


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> A good rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space for each heat generating component, plus an extra 120mm for good measure.


That took me about 5 minutes to find, and there's a lot more where those came from.


----------



## WiSK

The rule of thumb doesn't address fan speed or overclock stability, it's just arbitrary.

Considering stock air cooling at load usually means temps in the 80s for cpus and gpus, you don't need much radiator to improve on that. The reason to have more radiator area is mostly to reduce fan speeds, or give yourself overhead for overclock stability. Since temps for stability vary wildly by chip and by waterblock, there's no point claiming you need X rads or Y rpm on fans. You need to test it on your own
system.


----------



## fleetfeather

Sorry WiSK, but the rule of thumb clearly states........


----------



## afokke

would y'all rather get a res/pump combo or get them seperately? I am leaning towards an XSPC D5/Photon 270 combo because I can easily use tape or velcro to stick the whole pump/res assembly to the case (I imagine). but there are countless other pump tops and mounting accessories (from Bitspower and EK and such) that confuse the **** out of me, I have no idea how they go together, if they need to be used in conjunction with other mounting components, etc. and it is hard to find videos of them. what are common mounting methods that people who forego a pump/res combo use?


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Is primochill revolver knurled compression fitting good?

How many fittings do I need in a complete loop with 2 radiators, 2 GPU and a cpu and a res with pump?

I want to buy the 10 pack of the fitting would that be enough?


----------



## scorpscarx

I still haven't bought my gear yet, from about 5 pages ago or so, and it's driving me crazy now, I have purchase-itis or something.

Just trying to slowly get my budget up still.

I was going to go for the xspc d5/photon combo anyway to be used with a different block, rad, fittings, and tubing.

How do the xspc fittings compare to expensive bitspower ones?

What about the quality of that block and rad, I would go ahead and get the better tubing, but going that route would save me $150, worth it to just get the kit and make the gear sacrifices or keep saving?

Ehh whatever, I went with that kit, with some added LRT tubing, finally, so excited man







!.


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> Is primochill revolver knurled compression fitting good?
> 
> How many fittings do I need in a complete loop with 2 radiators, 2 GPU and a cpu and a res with pump?
> 
> I want to buy the 10 pack of the fitting would that be enough?


12 min depending on setup


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> 12 min depending on setup


What do you mean depending on set-up?

So just o be sure I'll buy two 10 packs? is there a six pack?


----------



## pdasterly

each component requires 2 fittings.
10 pack plus a 4 pack


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> each component requires 2 fittings.
> 10 pack plus a 4 pack


Alright thanks!


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> *each component requires 2 fittings.*
> 10 pack plus a 4 pack


this. so as P said, 14 total fittings
Unless you use a GPU bridge or some other kind of SLI linking system, but even then, you'd still need 12
You may also want to get some angled adapters
Also keep in mind that the Primochill Revolver fittings are only for rigid acrylic tubing. So if you plan on using flexible tubing, like Primochill Advanced LRT, then you need to find different fittings


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> each component requires 2 fittings.
> 10 pack plus a 4 pack
> 
> 
> 
> this. so as P said, 14 total fittings
Click to expand...

Yeah, but keep in mind that's assuming there's room to use fittings between the GPUs, and assuming you are going to run them in serial, and aren't using a bridge.

If you will be mounting them two-slot there won't be room for regular fittings between the cards so you would have to use a bridge or a multi link set. If you are mounting them 4 slot or more you can use regular fittings and tube instead of a bridge, but if you want to go parallel you will need two more fittings.

I probably just made it sound more complicated than it is. lol

edit: I see morencyam caught that too with a ninja edit! lol


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> each component requires 2 fittings.
> 10 pack plus a 4 pack


If I use a EK FC Ternimal dual on my Xfire, it will only need two fittings? Instead of buying fittings I'll just get the FC Terminal?

Watch think?


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> If I use a EK FC Ternimal dual on my Xfire, it will only need two fittings? Instead of buying fittings I'll just get the FC Terminal?
> 
> Watch think?


There you go. In that case you just need two fittings for both GPUs + two fittings for every other component.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> If I use a EK FC Ternimal dual on my Xfire, it will only need two fittings? Instead of buying fittings I'll just get the FC Terminal?
> 
> Watch think?


You'd only need 12 then.

See my edit above. TLDR: Revolver fittings are for rigid acrylic tubing only.

PS. Unicorn


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> You'd only need 12 then.
> 
> See my edit above. TLDR: Revolver fittings are for rigid acrylic tubing only.
> 
> PS. Unicorn


They also fit petg tubing. Thats what im using


----------



## scorpscarx

Quick question, is there any need to pre-flush new gear out of the box prior to a first time install to clear out anything that might be left from manufacturing or is that basically already done when they factory test the parts?


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> They also fit petg tubing. Thats what im using


Yeah I will use petg. It's cheaper too

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> There you go. In that case you just need two fittings for both GPUs + two fittings for every other component.


Okay thank you. I'm not good in math. Imma calculate first how many fittings I need BRB lmao


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> would y'all rather get a res/pump combo or get them seperately? I am leaning towards an XSPC D5/Photon 270 combo because I can easily use tape or velcro to stick the whole pump/res assembly to the case (I imagine). but there are countless other pump tops and mounting accessories (from Bitspower and EK and such) that confuse the **** out of me, I have no idea how they go together, if they need to be used in conjunction with other mounting components, etc. and it is hard to find videos of them. what are common mounting methods that people who forego a pump/res combo use?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Quick question, is there any need to pre-flush new gear out of the box prior to a first time install to clear out anything that might be left from manufacturing or is that basically already done when they factory test the parts?


waterblocks, pumps, tubing, and reservoir, don't worry about. Radiators, most definitely. You'll be amazed how much flux and other gunk that comes put of a brand new radiator, especially Alphacool


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> this. so as P said, 14 total fittings
> Unless you use a GPU bridge or some other kind of SLI linking system, but even then, you'd still need 12
> You may also want to get some angled adapters
> Also keep in mind that the Primochill Revolver fittings are only for rigid acrylic tubing. So if you plan on using flexible tubing, like Primochill Advanced LRT, then you need to find different fittings


Okay, I'll just get a 4 pack just incase I will need it. I'll get a EK FC Terminal Dual but there is Parallel and serial?

Is it just the flow?

What angle adapter should I get? Does it come in a pack too?


----------



## pdasterly

ek recommended me parallel terminal, check your motherboard. I had to get the dual 3 slot terminal


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Quick question, is there any need to pre-flush new gear out of the box prior to a first time install to clear out anything that might be left from manufacturing or is that basically already done when they factory test the parts?
> 
> 
> 
> waterblocks, pumps, tubing, and reservoir, don't worry about. Radiators, most definitely. You'll be amazed how much flux and other gunk that comes put of a brand new radiator, especially Alphacool
Click to expand...

+1 this. You should definitely flush out rads before using. Most common method is to partially fill with hot water and shake / tilt back and forth for a few minutes, drain, and repeat several times, then a good rinse or two with distilled / deionized before adding to your loop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> would y'all rather get a res/pump combo or get them seperately? I am leaning towards an XSPC D5/Photon 270 combo because I can easily use tape or velcro to stick the whole pump/res assembly to the case (I imagine). but there are countless other pump tops and mounting accessories (from Bitspower and EK and such) that confuse the **** out of me, I have no idea how they go together, if they need to be used in conjunction with other mounting components, etc. and it is hard to find videos of them. what are common mounting methods that people who forego a pump/res combo use?


It's a personal choice really. Reservoirs like the Photon can make for a cleaner loop and save you a couple fittings than if the pump and res were separate, but due to the design its flow rate isn't quite as good as the same pump by itself with a good pump top. Not a whole lot of difference though to where it really matters. It's also a bit tricky to fill especially if it's straight up & down. You have to tilt it pretty good (put a few books under one end of the case) so the fillport doesn't get airlocked so water can go in. It helps a lot to use a squeeze-type fill/wash bottle. The Photon 270 D5 combo is also very large (350mm / 13.8" tall), so much so that many people who buy it wind up posting that only after receiving it did they figure out it won't fit where they thought it would. FWIW I have a Photon 270 and really like it.


----------



## morencyam

Again, as P said, check your mobo for PCI slot spacing. On my old board I needed dual slot, on my new board I need triple slot.

Parallel and Serial is just the flow path. Serial, Card 1 gets coolant input first followed by card 2. Parallel, Cards 1 and 2 both get input flow at the same time

Angle adapter come in either 45 or 90 degree. They are very handy in situations where the bend is so tight that the tubing would kink, or just can't make the bend at all.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> ek recommended me parallel terminal, check your motherboard. I had to get the dual 3 slot terminal


How do I check? I've checked CoolingConfigurator.com but there is no FC terminal choices there.


----------



## pdasterly

link to your mobo?


----------



## scorpscarx

Thanks Unicr0nhunter and morencyam, y'all are both extremely helpful







.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Again, as P said, check your mobo for PCI slot spacing. On my old board I needed dual slot, on my new board I need triple slot.
> 
> Parallel and Serial is just the flow path. Serial, Card 1 gets coolant input first followed by card 2. Parallel, Cards 1 and 2 both get input flow at the same time
> 
> Angle adapter come in either 45 or 90 degree. They are very handy in situations where the bend is so tight that the tubing would kink, or just can't make the bend at all.


Thanks for the info! It is all clarified now. I guess parallel would be a better choice.

As for my motherboard I guess I only need dual they are very close to each other and one small pci-e is the gap from the first card to the second card.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> link to your mobo?


http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/


----------



## morencyam

The text in the corner is kind of hard to read. Red is 2 slot, Blue is 3 slot, Green is 4 slot, and Orange is 6 slot(which EK doesn't make)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/


You'd want a 3 slot terminal.

Parallel vs flow makes very little difference in temps with only two cards.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> The text in the corner is kind of hard to read. Red is 2 slot, Blue is 3 slot, Green is 4 slot, and Orange is 6 slot(which EK doesn't make)
> 
> 
> This is my mobo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like a 3 slot to me but not sure.


----------



## morencyam

Yes, 3 slot is correct. As you can see, the gap between the right pci-e x16 slot and the x1 slot is extra wide, the same as if there were a slot. It seems most mobo manufacturers now assume that most people with a somewhat higher board will have a GPU that takes up two slot due to the large stock air cooler.


----------



## mend0k

What would be best for dual pump setup? a parallel or in series? I am about to get another pump as I don't think mine is strong enough for my rads and temps may be suffering a tad, also I think I screwed up mounting the waterblock... also the redundancy factor is a +


----------



## fleetfeather

Series for pumps, everytime

Source: martinsliquidlab


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> "rule of thumb"
> CPU = min 120.1 , 120.2 for silent/mild O/C
> GPU = min 120.2 , 120.3 for silent/mild O/C & R9
> 
> Thus: CPU + GPU Xfire/sli => 120.5 to 120.8
> Note: An external 120.9 like the MO-RA3 makes more sense.. always
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such an _EXTREME_ 'rule of thumb'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SNIP!
> 
> 
> 
> I've always seen mentioned 120 of rad for each component being cooled plus most will recommend / add to that one extra 120 of rad for some room to overclock. ex: 120*4 for a CPU + 2 GPUs. I'd venture to say that the overwhelming majority of watercooling builds posted in the OCN Watercooling Club thread do not have enough rad to meet your 'rule of thumb'. Heck, I've seen people like @WiSK with an OC'd CPU & GPU on a single 120 rad loop who didn't have bad temps at all.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Valgaur*
> 
> 3 280x's and 4770K on full load though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the discussion about rule-of-thumb. You need exactly 5x120 rad to cool that, no more and no less
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Usually the rule of thumb is 120mm of rad per component. In this case you have a cpu and 4 gpuz. Two 360s would be minimum imo. Two 480mm would be ideal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space per component plus an additional 120mm rad on top of that. [...]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> no basic rule of thumb for min cooling is 120mm rad for every component in your loop +120
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jamaican Reaper*
> 
> That's correct,the rules are 1x120 rad per block/core plus an additional 120 rad (480mm of rad space)....So you need at least 2x240 (480mm),even better 1x360 and 1x240 (600mm of rad space) for a little headroom....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the general rule of thumb is 120 for each component and an additional 120. So in your case, one 360 rad, or a 240 and a 120
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> Still good enough. The commonly used rule is Nof 120mm radiators = Nof components + 1, so you have one 120mm radiator space more than you need. Remember that RAM or mother board blocks doesn't go to the equation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> [...] rule of thumb 120mm of rad per component plus another 120 on top of that... [...]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> A good rule of thumb is 120mm of rad space for each heat generating component, plus an extra 120mm for good measure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That took me about 5 minutes to find, and there's a lot more where those came from.
Click to expand...

Yeah well, lets take it one step further

As per Martin et al, the average 360 Rad can dissipate on average 300 Watts @ 10°C Delta at a reasonable average fan speed
To broaden the margin of error, you can derive from that -in an overly simplistic way- that 120.1 can dissipate 100 Watts @ 10 Delta

Given that most CPU's are below 100 Watts, one 120.1 is ok; but given that most top end GPU's are definitely over the 250 Watts mark, you need a 120.3 for a GPU alone if you want 10°C Delta

Of course there is a margin.. you can probably get away with one 360 for CPU+GPU if you are willing to run at a (much) higher delta and/or can live with much louder fans.
Heck, you could probably dissipate close to 1000 watts with one 360... if you run Delta fans at full tilt and are willing to run a Delta-T of 20-25-30°C

The problem with a Delta-T of 20-30°C above ambient is your ambient temp.

If your ambient is 25°C , your loop would reach 45-55°C... you're getting closer to CPU Temp throttling AND some stuff in your loop (acryl res, pump o-ring, etc) don't like those temps very much.
(also, if you are dumping close to 1000 watts in your room, the ambient is not gonna stay at 25°C, unless you've got A/C







)

Now, since W/C has hit mainstream, the knowledge has been watered down... for a lot of people W/C is "magic bling" even upto the idea that it will be silent, below ambient, maintenance free and will even make a cup of coffee in the morning - all with one 120.1 and a puny "silent" fan with go-faster stripes.

Those people will be tempted to turn down the fan speed to have less racket pounding their ears if you run CPU+Sli/Xfire GPUs on one 360 ... which will result in the delta-T going over 30°C... if not a disaster waiting to happen, then at least it will be "disappointed in W/C"

For people with limited space/funds & hearing, and willing to run higher loop temps, then of course you can say 120.1 per device.
For people with enough space/funds & preferring silent operation, then the more radiator the better: 120.9 for CPU+GPU










For everybody else (new to W/C or not), i think the min 120.1 for CPU, min 120.2 for GPU is a good starting point.

From there of course starts the discussion on the needs, budget, space, etc AND on the rad variations... a 7 FPI 30mm rad will not dissipate the same as a 30 FPI 30mm rad... at least not unless you change the FAN variable


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Quick question, is there any need to pre-flush new gear out of the box prior to a first time install to clear out anything that might be left from manufacturing or is that basically already done when they factory test the parts?


Yes..

Even Aquacomputer stuff -which can be considered real hi-end- has some residue sometimes.

As other said, most important are Rads.. there tends to be lotsa gunk inthere .. so Rad-dance is a must.

But a quick rinse of blocks & res wont hurt.. you never know how long they have been collecting dust









It's good practice to inspect & individually leak test each block before putting it all together and rush nothing.

If you cant spare the 5-10-15 mins to give a once over to blocks/res there's a rather big chance your W/C adventure's going to be short-lived.


----------



## afokke

what bitspower fittings should I get


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> what bitspower fittings should I get


That's a pretty vague question. Are you using hardline or flex tubing? What size tubing? Finish color? Are you willing to pay the premium price for Bitspower or do wou want to save a little money and go with a lower cost alternative like XSPC, EK, Swiftech, etc.


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Yeah well, lets take it one step further
> 
> As per Martin et al, the average 360 Rad can dissipate on average 300 Watts @ 10°C Delta at a reasonable average fan speed
> To broaden the margin of error, you can derive from that -in an overly simplistic way- that 120.1 can dissipate 100 Watts @ 10 Delta
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Snip
> 
> 
> 
> Given that most CPU's are below 100 Watts, one 120.1 is ok; but given that most top end GPU's are definitely over the 250 Watts mark, you need a 120.3 for a GPU alone if you want 10°C Delta
> 
> Of course there is a margin.. you can probably get away with one 360 for CPU+GPU if you are willing to run at a (much) higher delta and/or can live with much louder fans.
> Heck, you could probably dissipate close to 1000 watts with one 360... if you run Delta fans at full tilt and are willing to run a Delta-T of 20-25-30°C
> 
> The problem with a Delta-T of 20-30°C above ambient is your ambient temp.
> 
> If your ambient is 25°C , your loop would reach 45-55°C... you're getting closer to CPU Temp throttling AND some stuff in your loop (acryl res, pump o-ring, etc) don't like those temps very much.
> (also, if you are dumping close to 1000 watts in your room, the ambient is not gonna stay at 25°C, unless you've got A/C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Now, since W/C has hit mainstream, the knowledge has been watered down... for a lot of people W/C is "magic bling" even upto the idea that it will be silent, below ambient, maintenance free and will even make a cup of coffee in the morning - all with one 120.1 and a puny "silent" fan with go-faster stripes.
> 
> Those people will be tempted to turn down the fan speed to have less racket pounding their ears if you run CPU+Sli/Xfire GPUs on one 360 ... which will result in the delta-T going over 30°C... if not a disaster waiting to happen, then at least it will be "disappointed in W/C"
> 
> For people with limited space/funds & hearing, and willing to run higher loop temps, then of course you can say 120.1 per device.
> For people with enough space/funds & preferring silent operation, then the more radiator the better: 120.9 for CPU+GPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For everybody else (new to W/C or not), i think the min 120.1 for CPU, min 120.2 for GPU is a good starting point.
> 
> From there of course starts the discussion on the needs, budget, space, etc AND on the rad variations... a 7 FPI 30mm rad will not dissipate the same as a 30 FPI 30mm rad... at least not unless you change the FAN variable


And that explains it. No 'Rule of thumb' for a minimum amount of rad to build a system should be shooting for an EXTREME target of a 10C delta, especially in a thread entitled 'Water cooling guide for noobs'.

A 10C delta is an arbitrary target goal of testers like Martin, not something anyone should be suggesting as a 'minimum' needed for a loop. There is certainly no _need_ whatsoever for anyone to have a system capable of staying within a 10C delta or even a 15C delta. You are the very first person I've seen try to suggest as much as a 'rule of thumb'.

Go ahead and try to suggest your make-believe 'rule of thumb' nonsense in the Watercooling Club thread and see what kind of responses you get there. Please do. I seriously doubt you will find _anyone_ else there who agrees with your recommendations as a 'rule-of-thumb' to someone thinking about getting into watercooling. More likely you'll be attacked & ridiculed like Jacknaylor was for the exact same reasons. While you are there have a glance at all the posted systems in use. >75% of them do not enough rad to meet such a ridiculous minimum.

Here's a snippet of the discussion Jack spurned after he suggested recommending a 10C delta target system as some sort of a standard goal of watercooling...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CroakV*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> My deltaT is about 15 degrees, give or take. I'd like to get to around 10C, but I don't really think it's necessary. Not for my uses at least.
> 
> 
> 
> See, even the resident industry rep doesn't use deltaT = 10C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I LOL'd......Im sorry but I did..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that target also causes some unrealistic expectations and angst.
> 
> I've seen folks scrap perfectly good cases, pumps, blocks and rads that are providing more-than-adequate cooling chasing down the 10C Delta, playing snake-oil games with coolant, getting all tied up in knots over flow rates, fighting religious wars about tubing diameter, all in the name of 10C Delta, when most times that is not necessary for their particular use-cases.
> 
> It's all well and good if that's a passion or its actually your goal for whatever reason, but I'm not keen on seeing "influential" members here and elsewhere make that target seem to be the end-all-be-all of water cooling. You end up with peer-pressure causing people to overbuild systems, or worse, be _unhappy_ with the perfectly good water cooled rig they're "stuck with" as they can't afford to chase that 10C unicorn any further.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is worth rep all day long.
> 
> A well thought out post and it explains how I feel about it perfectly.
> 
> Normally at this point some one pipes up with 'its OCN,pursuit of performance' as if thats justification....
> 
> Using mathematical abstraction makes everything seem bigger than it is,normally greatly exaggerating the perceived issue.
Click to expand...





As I showed, the most commonly suggested 'rule of thumb' is a minimum of one 120mm of rad for each component being cooled plus one 120mm. Like WiSK pointed out, it lacks specific important factors like fan speed or overclock stability (as he has shown it's possible to build a good performing overclocked system on a lot less rad than that), but it puts people in the right ballpark that will outperform cooling on air which is all anyone should be suggesting as a minimum 'rule of thumb'.


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> That's a pretty vague question. Are you using hardline or flex tubing? What size tubing? Finish color? Are you willing to pay the premium price for Bitspower or do wou want to save a little money and go with a lower cost alternative like XSPC, EK, Swiftech, etc.


I will go with the primoflex advanced lrt, 3/8" x 5/8". color, probably black or something shiny. I'd like bitspower because they're the most popular and seem like the safest, most reliable option.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> I will go with the primoflex advanced lrt, 3/8" x 5/8". color, probably black or something shiny. I'd like bitspower because they're the most popular and seem like the safest, most reliable option.


Bitspower Black Sparkle would would give you a combination of black and shinny. Or Matte Black if you don't want any shine with the black. Or Silver Shiny for exactly what it sounds like. And you'd obviously need fittings that match the tubing dimensions. FWIW, I've used both EK and XSPC fitting and haven't had problems with either.

Or you can go with Barrow fitting. Identical to Bitspower, just without the big ugly logo on the side of the angled fittings, and a fraction of the price. There are quite a few users here that use them and swear by them. You can find them all over on eBay, but Best Deal Market seems to have the best selection in one place. They have the compression fittings to match your tube, along with 45 and 90 degree adapters(which I recommend getting a few of each to help out in tight bending situations in which the tubing would kink without an adapter). They only come in Black or Silver though.

Same fittings, just different brand name, and less than half the price
Barrow Compression $3.50
Bitspower Compression $8.99


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Bitspower Black Sparkle would would give you a combination of black and shinny. Or Matte Black if you don't want any shine with the black. Or Silver Shiny for exactly what it sounds like. And you'd obviously need fittings that match the tubing dimensions. FWIW, I've used both EK and XSPC fitting and haven't had problems with either.
> 
> Or you can go with Barrow fitting. Identical to Bitspower, just without the big ugly logo on the side of the angled fittings, and a fraction of the price. There are quite a few users here that use them and swear by them. You can find them all over on eBay, but Best Deal Market seems to have the best selection in one place. They have the compression fittings to match your tube, along with 45 and 90 degree adapters(which I recommend getting a few of each to help out in tight bending situations in which the tubing would kink without an adapter). They only come in Black or Silver though.
> 
> Same fittings, just different brand name, and less than half the price
> Barrow Compression $3.50
> Bitspower Compression $8.99


thanks







I will browse their shop

does a drain port need some special kind of fitting?


----------



## morencyam

A drain port can be done a few different ways. You can use a T-block and put an extra length of tube off that with a plug on the end. If you have an extra unused port on a radiator, pump top, or reservoir, you can use a male to male fitting with a Bitspower ball valve. Then when you want to drain, attach a fitting with tube to the end and open the valve. Or you can use quick disconnect fittings to detach a tube and drain.

I've done both t-Block drain and quick disconnects and both work well


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> A drain port can be done a few different ways. You can use a T-block and put an extra length of tube off that with a plug on the end. If you have an extra unused port on a radiator, pump top, or reservoir, you can use a male to male fitting with a Bitspower ball valve. Then when you want to drain, attach a fitting with tube to the end and open the valve. Or you can use quick disconnect fittings to detach a tube and drain.
> 
> I've done both t-Block drain and quick disconnects and both work well


If I use male to male fitting with mini valve, do I need to put a stopper on the other side for safety or its okay?


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

If I don't want to bend and use 90 adapter on each end, do I need to have the adapter and the compression fitting attached together?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> If I use male to male fitting with mini valve, do I need to put a stopper on the other side for safety or its okay?


A plug isn't required, but I would anyway. I've seen a handful of people say they have had a few drops come out of the ball valve, so I would just to be safe.

And I'm not sure what you mean about the bends? The compression fitting would screw into the angled adapter then the adapter would screw into the block/rad/res/etc


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> *If I don't want to bend and use 90 adapter on each end*, do I need to have the adapter and the compression fitting attached together?


I assume you are referring to rigid tubing (acrylic, petg, etc) and wanting to use angle fittings instead of bending the tube. If that's the case you will need a different type fitting than the compressions suggested. Those are for flexible tubing only.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Yeah thats what I meant. What kind of fittings should I use for the rigid tube and 90° adapter? Could I use my compression fittings to connect the angle adapter and tubes?


----------



## CaliLife17

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST









So I have only ever done AIO type water cooling and it has woked out well. But now for my next build, I have decided to do a full custom Water loop. It wont be NEARLY as fancy as some i have seen on here, but hopefully it will get the job done. So Far this is what I have listed for components i would need. There is a good chance this list is wrong, or missing items, or I have the type of item. So please feel free to correct me or guide me, as i come to you for help.
*
-Core Components*
-5960X
-Asus Rampage V Extreme
-16GB or 32GB of DDR4 Memory (Crucial or Corsair)
-2x GTX 880/880 Ti/Titan II
-Corsair Commander Mini (already Ordered)
-Case is a 900D (already being use for current build)
-AX1200i (already in current build, hoping it has enough power to power all of this, Please let me know if this wont be enough power, as i would then have to buy an AX1500i)
*
Water Cooling Items*
-2x480 Monsta 480 Radiators (any other recommendations for a good Rads)
-8x SP120 PWM High Performance fans for Radiators (figure i will use Corsair Link and just turn down the fans, but i have the headroom to bring up there RPM during Benching)
-Standard AF fans for non Radiator slots
-flexible tubing
-compression fittings (need to figure out how many and who to use) (Also is there any other choice than Bitfenix that are actually good. I would like stay with compressions fittings as they have the look i like)
-EKWB X3 400 Reservoir (Im pretty sure this fits in my case, and figured why not)
-Silver Kill Coil
-2x GPU block (No Idea who will be making them for the next Gen Nvidia Cards. Figured it would be between XSPC or EKWB. Will also get a backplate to go with them as well)
-1x CPU block (Again depends on who comes out with blocks for Haswell-E chips. Any recommendations?)
-1x D5 Pump
-EX D5 Top to replace stock
-EK SLI Parallel bridge (from what i have been reading, Parallel is the better choice than serial)

So I have a few questions.

1.) How do i go about choosing what Tube size i should do. It seems during my looking 1/2 ID and 3/4 OD is the most common. Obviously i need to pick a tube size as that will then effect what parts i order. What would be the best option. I don't want a size that is going to be a pain to find parts for.
2.) what makes a good Radiator? How do you determine how thick of a Rad you should get, is it just by what can fit in your case?
3.) So when it comes to mixing metals, i really dont want to do that. So i will need to make sure that both my CPU and GPU blocks are made of the same Metal. Do i also need to be concerned what the Radiator is made out of? as i would think most are just Copper tanks.
4.)what type of metals do you suggest i get the GPU and CPU block's to be?
5.)is 1x D5 pump enough? I am kinda thinking 1 pump would not actually be enough, so then i would assume then get 2. So if i did do 2, Im guessing i just need to get something like this? http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-d5-dual-top-g1-4-csq-black-acetal.html

*PICTURE OF BUILD DRAWN OUT*



This is basically what i am thinking for my setup. I figured for the Pump, i just just some double sided sticky velecro and just attach it to the bottom of the case?
-Also Should i have the Rear 140mm Fan blow out or into the Case
-For the top 480 Rad, Should i have the Fans on top of the Rad, between the Rad and the top of the case, or should i place them on the bottom of the Rad and have the Rad touching the top of the case (or can i not even do that?)

Again sorry for the long post, as I do have a lot of questions. I will be doing a build log once everything does come out and is able to purchase. I would imagine mid September is when CPU/MOBO/GPU/RAM will all be out.

I am sure i will have more questions, but i really do appreciate any help and for anyone taking the time to help a WC new like myself. If there is a better thread to post this in, please let me know and i will.


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Yes..
> 
> Even Aquacomputer stuff -which can be considered real hi-end- has some residue sometimes.
> 
> As other said, most important are Rads.. there tends to be lotsa gunk inthere .. so Rad-dance is a must.
> 
> But a quick rinse of blocks & res wont hurt.. you never know how long they have been collecting dust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good practice to inspect & individually leak test each block before putting it all together and rush nothing.
> 
> If you cant spare the 5-10-15 mins to give a once over to blocks/res there's a rather big chance your W/C adventure's going to be short-lived.


Thank you, my order shipped today, pretty excited about the whole thing.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Yeah well, lets take it one step further
> 
> As per Martin et al, the average 360 Rad can dissipate on average 300 Watts @ 10°C Delta at a reasonable average fan speed
> To broaden the margin of error, you can derive from that -in an overly simplistic way- that 120.1 can dissipate 100 Watts @ 10 Delta
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Snip
> 
> 
> 
> Given that most CPU's are below 100 Watts, one 120.1 is ok; but given that most top end GPU's are definitely over the 250 Watts mark, you need a 120.3 for a GPU alone if you want 10°C Delta
> 
> Of course there is a margin.. you can probably get away with one 360 for CPU+GPU if you are willing to run at a (much) higher delta and/or can live with much louder fans.
> Heck, you could probably dissipate close to 1000 watts with one 360... if you run Delta fans at full tilt and are willing to run a Delta-T of 20-25-30°C
> 
> The problem with a Delta-T of 20-30°C above ambient is your ambient temp.
> 
> If your ambient is 25°C , your loop would reach 45-55°C... you're getting closer to CPU Temp throttling AND some stuff in your loop (acryl res, pump o-ring, etc) don't like those temps very much.
> (also, if you are dumping close to 1000 watts in your room, the ambient is not gonna stay at 25°C, unless you've got A/C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Now, since W/C has hit mainstream, the knowledge has been watered down... for a lot of people W/C is "magic bling" even upto the idea that it will be silent, below ambient, maintenance free and will even make a cup of coffee in the morning - all with one 120.1 and a puny "silent" fan with go-faster stripes.
> 
> Those people will be tempted to turn down the fan speed to have less racket pounding their ears if you run CPU+Sli/Xfire GPUs on one 360 ... which will result in the delta-T going over 30°C... if not a disaster waiting to happen, then at least it will be "disappointed in W/C"
> 
> For people with limited space/funds & hearing, and willing to run higher loop temps, then of course you can say 120.1 per device.
> For people with enough space/funds & preferring silent operation, then the more radiator the better: 120.9 for CPU+GPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For everybody else (new to W/C or not), i think the min 120.1 for CPU, min 120.2 for GPU is a good starting point.
> 
> From there of course starts the discussion on the needs, budget, space, etc AND on the rad variations... a 7 FPI 30mm rad will not dissipate the same as a 30 FPI 30mm rad... at least not unless you change the FAN variable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that explains it. No 'Rule of thumb' for a minimum amount of rad to build a system should be shooting for an EXTREME target of a 10C delta, especially in a thread entitled 'Water cooling guide for noobs'.
> 
> A 10C delta is an arbitrary target goal of testers like Martin, not something anyone should be suggesting as a 'minimum' needed for a loop. There is certainly no _need_ whatsoever for anyone to have a system capable of staying within a 10C delta or even a 15C delta. You are the very first person I've seen try to suggest as much as a 'rule of thumb'.
> 
> Go ahead and try to suggest your make-believe 'rule of thumb' nonsense in the Watercooling Club thread and see what kind of responses you get there. Please do. I seriously doubt you will find _anyone_ else there who agrees with your recommendations as a 'rule-of-thumb' to someone thinking about getting into watercooling. More likely you'll be attacked & ridiculed like Jacknaylor was for the exact same reasons. While you are there have a glance at all the posted systems in use. >75% of them do not enough rad to meet such a ridiculous minimum.
> 
> Here's a snippet of the discussion Jack spurned after he suggested recommending a 10C delta target system as some sort of a standard goal of watercooling...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CroakV*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> My deltaT is about 15 degrees, give or take. I'd like to get to around 10C, but I don't really think it's necessary. Not for my uses at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See, even the resident industry rep doesn't use deltaT = 10C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I LOL'd......Im sorry but I did..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that target also causes some unrealistic expectations and angst.
> 
> I've seen folks scrap perfectly good cases, pumps, blocks and rads that are providing more-than-adequate cooling chasing down the 10C Delta, playing snake-oil games with coolant, getting all tied up in knots over flow rates, fighting religious wars about tubing diameter, all in the name of 10C Delta, when most times that is not necessary for their particular use-cases.
> 
> It's all well and good if that's a passion or its actually your goal for whatever reason, but I'm not keen on seeing "influential" members here and elsewhere make that target seem to be the end-all-be-all of water cooling. You end up with peer-pressure causing people to overbuild systems, or worse, be _unhappy_ with the perfectly good water cooled rig they're "stuck with" as they can't afford to chase that 10C unicorn any further.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is worth rep all day long.
> 
> A well thought out post and it explains how I feel about it perfectly.
> 
> Normally at this point some one pipes up with 'its OCN,pursuit of performance' as if thats justification....
> 
> Using mathematical abstraction makes everything seem bigger than it is,normally greatly exaggerating the perceived issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I showed, the most commonly suggested 'rule of thumb' is a minimum of one 120mm of rad for each component being cooled plus one 120mm. Like WiSK pointed out, it lacks specific important factors like fan speed or overclock stability (as he has shown it's possible to build a good performing overclocked system on a lot less rad than that), but it puts people in the right ballpark that will outperform cooling on air which is all anyone should be suggesting as a minimum 'rule of thumb'.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's time to head over there and step on some toes...
unfortunately i'll be using very similar arguments as Jack....

The *120 per device* has shortcomings...
it allows for assumptions like "CPU + GPU + GPU + PCH + VRM + RAM, then 120.6 or 120.7" and "CPU + X-fire R9 290X only need a 360"

The problem with the *"120 per"* is that it has become a platitude.. something everybody repeats as _"known to be true , like Columbus proved earth is not flat, you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up, and blue led fans cool better, etc"_. Nobody seems to remember where the *"120 per"* originated or can point to supporting figures.
While the *"120 per"* is not inherently wrong, without context it has all the value of _"a guy in bar told me..."_
An argument could be made for that history "proves" that *"120 per"* is enough, but then i'ld say that history has proven that humanity did well for millennia with just horse & carriage, so we don't need automobiles at all

Like Jack, i prefer to base recommendation on _*"Wattage to dissipate at DeltaT 10°C"*_ , *knowing full well* that a DeltaT of 10°C *can not be achieved* in a normal build unless you do a very optimised setup or use external rads. It is a much better founded starting point which leaves enough room/overhead for environmental circumstances, (budgetary) limitations, modifications, "tone down" to more realistic needs and more specific choices.

It's overestimate, then reduce as needed.
It's the exceed expectations game, if you will.

Look at some of the big picture issues:

The *"120 per"* thus 360 for CPU + xFire R-290x resulting in a DeltaT of +20°C will be fine for the guy living in Iqaluit with an ambient of 10°c, it will be less than fine for the guy living in Bangalore without the benefix of A/C and having an ambient of +35°C

An argument can be made for _"GPU's have no problem with running at 80°c all day, so chipping 10°C off is enough"_; while this is true, it does not mean that having loop temps over 50°C is ok... you are reaching CPU-throttling temps, acryl & PVC starts going soft, O-rings dont like it very much either, and you're hitting the boundaries of the operating specs of your pump.

Every other thread starts with _"help me choose ... *noise & money not an issue*"_ , 'till you propose industrial (Delta) fans or any other fan (eg Noiseblockers) listed over $20,- and a decent big case. It's suddenly too loud or too expensive. A lot of these end up with your typical 240 Front, 360 Roof setup with puny "silent", blue ledded, go-faster striped case fans on their rads. These are NOT in danger of hitting a DeltaT of 10°C... it would be a miracle if they could achieve Delta-T less than 20°C.

There is no harm in being overradded, its only money; being underradded can cost you a lot more money.

Which brings me to ...
Nowadays people want to go into W/C for a multitude of reasons..: "magical" properties, "bling" factor , heat & noise , ....
Most of these need & can be "educated" and helped to understand and get a tailored solution for their needs. But, I feel that the _"everybody says *120 per"*_ is not the best foundation for that.... at some point you HAVE to drag science in the explanation, so why wait?

For those who want W/C for the "bling"... i have a tendency to regard those as "more money than common sense", thus the sky is the limit. I try to keep that in check and try to get an informed, sensible solution, but still.
_Call me an elitist ... but going into W/C for the "bling" is like putting an Ascari on your driveway. Yes, you'll own an exclusive automobile and you can brag about it; but it's not a soccer-mom-school-run mobile; it's a real drivers-car, a no-compromise road-legal race-car that'll kill you if you don't concentrate 110% while driving it. If you are not a true petrol-head with a death wish, you are not worthy of an Ascari... settle for something more sensible, something German like a Veyron, or Lambo (or a 911 if on a budget)_

As for ridicule... lotsa people have been ridiculed over the centuries/millenia for suggesting that _"the current way of thinking/seeing/doing things might be inadequate if not plain wrong"_ , things like _the earth might not be flat_ , _the solar system may not revolve around us_ , _thunder/lightning may not be the wrath of gods_ , _boiling water to kill all these little things swimming in it may not be a bad idea_ .... over _there are no WMD in Irak_, upto _what the US needs now to evolve is a non-white, liberal president_. I'm not in bad company, i'll survive.. besides, i survived RealRedRaider









Oh, and another thing while i'm in grumpy old man mode: when in the last decade has it become OK for the reservoir to be below the highest point in the loop?

FOOTNOTEs:
- Columbus did NOT prove the earth was round; a kneejerker can get you pregnant and blue ledded fans dont cool any better
- Bugatti, Lamborgini, Porsche is owned by Volkswagen


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

hello OCN WC Gurus,

Here are the parts for my WC build

-EK Supremacy Nickel CPU Block
-Ek FC R9 Nickel + Acetal x 2 < owned
-EK FC Backplate x2 -Ek D5 Vario Pump/Res 140
Rigid Tube ID 3/8" OD 1/2"
Primochill revolver compression fittings 10 pack Alphacool xt45 or ST30 360?
Alphacool xt45 or ST30?
Fans?

I don't have the case as of the moment, but this is the case that I want for the WC build.
System specs i7 3770k 4.4ghz on air
Sapphire R9 290 Tri x Crossfire
Asrock Extreme 4 z77
16gbram
256ssd
2tb Hdd
Seasonic x1050 PSU
Hyper 212

What thickness of rad should I get for the roof and front for NZXT h440?
Fans for WC build?

Opinions and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Yes, it's time to head over there and step on some toes...
> unfortunately i'll be using very similar arguments as Jack....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TLDR
> 
> 
> 
> The *120 per device* has shortcomings...
> it allows for assumptions like "CPU + GPU + GPU + PCH + VRM + RAM, then 120.6 or 120.7" and "CPU + X-fire R9 290X only need a 360"
> 
> The problem with the *"120 per"* is that it has become a platitude.. something everybody repeats as _"known to be true , like Columbus proved earth is not flat, you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up, and blue led fans cool better, etc"_. Nobody seems to remember where the *"120 per"* originated or can point to supporting figures.
> While the *"120 per"* is not inherently wrong, without context it has all the value of _"a guy in bar told me..."_
> An argument could be made for that history "proves" that *"120 per"* is enough, but then i'ld say that history has proven that humanity did well for millennia with just horse & carriage, so we don't need automobiles at all
> 
> Like Jack, i prefer to base recommendation on _*"Wattage to dissipate at DeltaT 10°C"*_ , *knowing full well* that a DeltaT of 10°C *can not be achieved* in a normal build unless you do a very optimised setup or use external rads. It is a much better founded starting point which leaves enough room/overhead for environmental circumstances, (budgetary) limitations, modifications, "tone down" to more realistic needs and more specific choices.
> 
> It's overestimate, then reduce as needed.
> It's the exceed expectations game, if you will.
> 
> Look at some of the big picture issues:
> 
> The *"120 per"* thus 360 for CPU + xFire R-290x resulting in a DeltaT of +20°C will be fine for the guy living in Iqaluit with an ambient of 10°c, it will be less than fine for the guy living in Bangalore without the benefix of A/C and having an ambient of +35°C
> 
> An argument can be made for _"GPU's have no problem with running at 80°c all day, so chipping 10°C off is enough"_; while this is true, it does not mean that having loop temps over 50°C is ok... you are reaching CPU-throttling temps, acryl & PVC starts going soft, O-rings dont like it very much either, and you're hitting the boundaries of the operating specs of your pump.
> 
> Every other thread starts with _"help me choose ... *noise & money not an issue*"_ , 'till you propose industrial (Delta) fans or any other fan (eg Noiseblockers) listed over $20,- and a decent big case. It's suddenly too loud or too expensive. A lot of these end up with your typical 240 Front, 360 Roof setup with puny "silent", blue ledded, go-faster striped case fans on their rads. These are NOT in danger of hitting a DeltaT of 10°C... it would be a miracle if they could achieve Delta-T less than 20°C.
> 
> There is no harm in being overradded, its only money; being underradded can cost you a lot more money.
> 
> Which brings me to ...
> Nowadays people want to go into W/C for a multitude of reasons..: "magical" properties, "bling" factor , heat & noise , ....
> Most of these need & can be "educated" and helped to understand and get a tailored solution for their needs. But, I feel that the _"everybody says *120 per"*_ is not the best foundation for that.... at some point you HAVE to drag science in the explanation, so why wait?
> 
> For those who want W/C for the "bling"... i have a tendency to regard those as "more money than common sense", thus the sky is the limit. I try to keep that in check and try to get an informed, sensible solution, but still.
> _Call me an elitist ... but going into W/C for the "bling" is like putting an Ascari on your driveway. Yes, you'll own an exclusive automobile and you can brag about it; but it's not a soccer-mom-school-run mobile; it's a real drivers-car, a no-compromise road-legal race-car that'll kill you if you don't concentrate 110% while driving it. If you are not a true petrol-head with a death wish, you are not worthy of an Ascari... settle for something more sensible, something German like a Veyron, or Lambo (or a 911 if on a budget)_
> 
> As for ridicule... lotsa people have been ridiculed over the centuries/millenia for suggesting that _"the current way of thinking/seeing/doing things might be inadequate if not plain wrong"_ , things like _the earth might not be flat_ , _the solar system may not revolve around us_ , _thunder/lightning may not be the wrath of gods_ , _boiling water to kill all these little things swimming in it may not be a bad idea_ .... over _there are no WMD in Irak_, upto _what the US needs now to evolve is a non-white, liberal president_. I'm not in bad company, i'll survive.. besides, i survived RealRedRaider
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and another thing while i'm in grumpy old man mode: when in the last decade has it become OK for the reservoir to be below the highest point in the loop?
> 
> FOOTNOTEs:
> - Columbus did NOT prove the earth was round; a kneejerker can get you pregnant and blue ledded fans dont cool any better
> - Bugatti, Lamborgini, Porsche is owned by Volkswagen


It's not so much that I disagree with what you are saying as much as that entire discussion does not belong in a 'water cooling guide for noobs' thread.

While your recommendations, like Jack's, could certainly be useful for more advanced users and/or those chasing the 10C delta holy grail, they should only be discussed in the context of overkill, not as a 'minimum' and you cannot try to hijack the term 'Rule of thumb' for your formula. The 'Rule of thumb' has long been formed by consensus, and your 'recipe for overkill' aint it. That's the point I'm trying to make here.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> hello OCN WC Gurus,
> 
> Here are the parts for my WC build
> 
> -EK Supremacy Nickel CPU Block
> -Ek FC R9 Nickel + Acetal x 2 < owned
> -EK FC Backplate x2 -Ek D5 Vario Pump/Res 140
> Rigid Tube ID 3/8" OD 1/2"
> Primochill revolver compression fittings 10 pack Alphacool xt45 or ST30 360?
> Alphacool xt45 or ST30?
> Fans?
> 
> I don't have the case as of the moment, but this is the case that I want for the WC build.
> System specs i7 3770k 4.4ghz on air
> Sapphire R9 290 Tri x Crossfire
> Asrock Extreme 4 z77
> 16gbram
> 256ssd
> 2tb Hdd
> Seasonic x1050 PSU
> Hyper 212
> 
> What thickness of rad should I get for the roof and front for NZXT h440?
> Fans for WC build?
> 
> Opinions and suggestions are highly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you


Front: Alphacool XT45 120.3 or ST30 120.3
Top: ST30 120.3 (or Alphacool XT45 120.3 if more as 70mm clearance between roof and MB/RAM)
Fans: Noiseblocker B12-P(s) or Swiftech Helix PWM if on budget
Swiftech 8-way PWM fan hub
EK Parallel or Serial SLI Bridge


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Front: Alphacool XT45 120.3 or ST30 120.3
> Top: ST30 120.3 (or Alphacool XT45 120.3 if more as 70mm clearance between roof and MB/RAM)
> Fans: Noiseblocker B12-P(s) or Swiftech Helix PWM if on budget
> Swiftech 8-way PWM fan hub
> EK Parallel or Serial SLI Bridge


Thank you!

Both rads are 360? top and front?

Price difference of both of the fans are huge.

What are the comparison of the swifttech compared to the noiseblocker? performance and noise?

I'm opting more on the swiftech because of the price.

*PS What does 120.3 mean on the rad?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Front: Alphacool XT45 120.3 or ST30 120.3
> Top: ST30 120.3 (or Alphacool XT45 120.3 if more as 70mm clearance between roof and MB/RAM)
> Fans: Noiseblocker B12-P(s) or Swiftech Helix PWM if on budget
> Swiftech 8-way PWM fan hub
> EK Parallel or Serial SLI Bridge
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Both rads are 360? top and front?
> 
> Price difference of both of the fans are huge.
> 
> What are the comparison of the swifttech compared to the noiseblocker? performance and noise?
> 
> I'm opting more on the swiftech because of the price.
Click to expand...

According to NZXT the h440 can take 360 front & top.... how much drive bays you loose or are willign to loose is up to you of course.
If you are willing to loose them all, you can opt for a UT60 120.3 (*)

The "standard" radiator fan is Gentle Typhoon AP-15.. which has become rather hard to find

Thus the options become limited; most fans are not very well suited to overcome a dust filter + the restriction of a radiator

So, there's Delta AFB1212VHE, the new noctua industrials, the NB eLOOP B12-P(s) at the high end and Swifty Helix PWM & Titan Kukri as the "poor mans" GT-AP15 at the cheap end. As far as i am considered, most other fans are garbage. Dont believe in the Corsair SP120SP hype, they are terrible... while they do have some performance they also have an unpleasant sound at certain frequencies , and a bit more important.. they somehow managed to break the PWM standard. You cant have more a 3-4 SP120's on PWM

OF course, you dont have to use PWM if you prefer fiddlign with knobs... but a GOOD fancontroller isn't cheap either.
And the NZXT GRID isn't a good hub/controller.. it has a tendency to "spark"

The easiest "set & forget" config is the Swifty 8-way PWM hub, 6 PWM fans on the rads, set a baseline in BIOS and a ramp/curve in software (eg although "old" : Speedfan) and your fans will speed up as needed while running whisperquiet at 30% when idle.

120.1 = 120
120.2 = 240
120.3 = 360

(*) Of course.. some would say that for CPU+xFire R9 GPU, only ONE 360 would be enough...


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> According to NZXT the h440 can take 360 front & top.... how much drive bays you loose or are willign to loose is up to you of course.
> If you are willing to loose them all, you can opt for a UT60 120.3 (*)
> 
> The "standard" radiator fan is Gentle Typhoon AP-15.. which has become rather hard to find
> 
> Thus the options become limited; most fans are not very well suited to overcome a dust filter + the restriction of a radiator
> 
> So, there's Delta AFB1212VHE, the new noctua industrials, the NB eLOOP B12-P(s) at the high end and Swifty Helix PWM & Titan Kukri as the "poor mans" GT-AP15 at the cheap end. As far as i am considered, most other fans are garbage. Dont believe in the Corsair SP120SP hype, they are terrible... while they do have some performance they also have an unpleasant sound at certain frequencies , and a bit more important.. they somehow managed to break the PWM standard. You cant have more a 3-4 SP120's on PWM
> 
> OF course, you dont have to use PWM if you prefer fiddlign with knobs... but a GOOD fancontroller isn't cheap either.
> And the NZXT GRID isn't a good hub/controller.. it has a tendency to "spark"
> 
> The easiest "set & forget" config is the Swifty 8-way PWM hub, 6 PWM fans on the rads, set a baseline in BIOS and a ramp/curve in software (eg although "old" : Speedfan) and your fans will speed up as needed while running whisperquiet at 30% when idle.
> 
> 120.1 = 120
> 120.2 = 240
> 120.3 = 360
> 
> (*) Of course.. some would say that for CPU+xFire R9 GPU, only ONE 360 would be enough...


Thank you very informative!

Probably I would do ST30 on top and XT45 infront both 360.

3 noiseblocker Fans on both rads if budget allows it.

What do you think of NZXT Grid+. The newer Grid version.

So everything is good to go right?

What's a good airflow fan for the exhaust at the back of the case? noiseblocker too?


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> According to NZXT the h440 can take 360 front & top.... how much drive bays you loose or are willign to loose is up to you of course.
> If you are willing to loose them all, you can opt for a UT60 120.3 (*)
> 
> The "standard" radiator fan is Gentle Typhoon AP-15.. which has become rather hard to find
> 
> Thus the options become limited; most fans are not very well suited to overcome a dust filter + the restriction of a radiator
> 
> So, there's Delta AFB1212VHE, the new noctua industrials, the NB eLOOP B12-P(s) at the high end and Swifty Helix PWM & Titan Kukri as the "poor mans" GT-AP15 at the cheap end. As far as i am considered, most other fans are garbage. Dont believe in the Corsair SP120SP hype, they are terrible... while they do have some performance they also have an unpleasant sound at certain frequencies , and a bit more important.. they somehow managed to break the PWM standard. You cant have more a 3-4 SP120's on PWM
> 
> OF course, you dont have to use PWM if you prefer fiddlign with knobs... but a GOOD fancontroller isn't cheap either.
> And the NZXT GRID isn't a good hub/controller.. it has a tendency to "spark"
> 
> The easiest "set & forget" config is the Swifty 8-way PWM hub, 6 PWM fans on the rads, set a baseline in BIOS and a ramp/curve in software (eg although "old" : Speedfan) and your fans will speed up as needed while running whisperquiet at 30% when idle.
> 
> 120.1 = 120
> 120.2 = 240
> 120.3 = 360
> 
> (*) Of course.. some would say that for CPU+xFire R9 GPU, only ONE 360 would be enough...


Is this the correct fan? http://www.ebay.com/itm/181501947463?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I bought them for $15ea

That's the Noiseblocker BP12


----------



## RnRollie

NZXT GRid is a voltage fan splitter/hub , makes cable management easier; doesn't work for PWM fans. PWM fans need something better as the GRID; hence the Swiftech 8-way PWM hub.

For exhaust fan, you can do whatever you want; the ones that come with the case are good enough for that.

Actually, if you want to save a buck, put the ST30 on top, move the FNv2 fans that come with the case from the front to the top (on the rad) and wire them together with the rear exhaust and run them at fixed speed 12v powered from a molex.

Run the eLoops on a front fan through a PWM fan splitter (eg AKASA AK-CBFA06-30) . This way the front fan/rad combo is dynamic, while top & rear is fixed. Should work fine.

However, the Swifty + 6 PWM fans is the better solution. And if you want to go overboard, get a 7th eLoop for the rear... its not needed, but hey, they are good looking









The eLOOP B12-P normally lists for $ +25,- , so if the sleezebay ones are in good order, you've made a good deal








http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_1130_49_1045&products_id=35711


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> NZXT GRid is a voltage fan splitter/hub , makes cable management easier; doesn't work for PWM fans. PWM fans need something better as the GRID; hence the Swiftech 8-way PWM hub.
> 
> For exhaust fan, you can do whatever you want; the ones that come with the case are good enough for that.
> 
> Actually, if you want to save a buck, put the ST30 on top, move the FNv2 fans that come with the case from the front to the top (on the rad) and wire them together with the rear exhaust and run them at fixed speed 12v powered from a molex.
> 
> Run the eLoops on a front fan through a PWM fan splitter (eg AKASA AK-CBFA06-30) . This way the front fan/rad combo is dynamic, while top & rear is fixed. Should work fine.
> 
> However, the Swifty + 6 PWM fans is the better solution. And if you want to go overboard, get a 7th eLoop for the rear... its not needed, but hey, they are good looking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The eLOOP B12-P normally lists for $ +25,- , so if the sleezebay ones are in good order, you've made a good deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_1130_49_1045&products_id=35711


For the Rads, I'll go with the alphacool is it the best or affordable rad choice or black ice?

Front will be 360 XT45 and top will be ST30. Both of them would have the NB eneloop fans.

I hope I could see a deal again for the NB Eneloop fans for $15ea Brand new. I was just lucky when you told me about the fans and searched it. It was newly posted.

What do you recommend for a pump res combo for my case?

I can't find a good deal with the ek combo.

Xspc raystorm good cpu block?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nzxt-grid-fan-controller,26952.html

NZXT Grid + Digital fan controller


----------



## RnRollie

Deals come and go.. just need to get lucky i guess
Alphacools have been king of the hill for while now -price/performance.. probably dethroned by the BI Nemesis now, but its the matter of finding the right deal... they dont make bad radiators anymore as long as you stay far far away from the Feser Admiral.
XSPC could be an alternative, the new V3 Rad is a good performer also.

Pump/res combo's.. the XSPC photon is a nice one, the aquacomputer Aqualis is a nice one. Phobya, Bitspower, Koolance, they al do the job.

The XSPC Raystorm is a very good block, so is the new Swiftech

Performance wise, they are all more or less on par; the deciding factor can be
A: the mounting mechanism - some require 3 hands to mount and come in a 1000 piece puzzle
B: the looks - the old Koolance 370 was a looker, the 380 not so much; the Raystorm is simple "understated" design, while the Swifty has some "transformers" look i guess.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php
http://www.frozencpu.com/
http://www.aquatuning.us/


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Deals come and go.. just need to get lucky i guess
> Alphacools have been king of the hill for while now -price/performance.. probably dethroned by the BI Nemesis now, but its the matter of finding the right deal... they dont make bad radiators anymore as long as you stay far far away from the Feser Admiral.
> XSPC could be an alternative, the new V3 Rad is a good performer also.
> 
> Pump/res combo's.. the XSPC photon is a nice one, the aquacomputer Aqualis is a nice one. Phobya, Bitspower, Koolance, they al do the job.
> 
> The XSPC Raystorm is a very good block, so is the new Swiftech
> 
> Performance wise, they are all more or less on par; the deciding factor can be
> A: the mounting mechanism - some require 3 hands to mount and come in a 1000 piece puzzle
> B: the looks - the old Koolance 370 was a looker, the 380 not so much; the Raystorm is simple "understated" design, while the Swifty has some "transformers" look i guess.
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php
> http://www.frozencpu.com/
> http://www.aquatuning.us/


FrozenCPU most of the blocks are out of stock.

Is this block any good?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17483/ex-blc-1348/EK_Supreme_LTX_Intel_CPU_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Acetal_Nickel_CSQ_EK-Supreme_LTX_-_AcetalNickel_CSQ.html?tl=g57c603s1912#blank

For the pump/res combo

Is the pump included? Why is the d5 vario cost higher than this one

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17572/ex-pmp-216/EK_D5_X-RES_Top_140_-_Acetal_-_Laing_D5_Swiftech_MCP655-B655655-PWM.html?tl=g57c595s1938


----------



## pdasterly

first time water system. going to use primochill petg for build but when i test fit everything i was thinking i should use a short piece of primochill LRT tubing from radiator to pump, its such a short piece and not going to be visible, is this ok? The bend would be a difficult one if i use the petg


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paopawdecarabao*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: --SNIP--
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Deals come and go.. just need to get lucky i guess
> Alphacools have been king of the hill for while now -price/performance.. probably dethroned by the BI Nemesis now, but its the matter of finding the right deal... they dont make bad radiators anymore as long as you stay far far away from the Feser Admiral.
> XSPC could be an alternative, the new V3 Rad is a good performer also.
> 
> Pump/res combo's.. the XSPC photon is a nice one, the aquacomputer Aqualis is a nice one. Phobya, Bitspower, Koolance, they al do the job.
> 
> The XSPC Raystorm is a very good block, so is the new Swiftech
> 
> Performance wise, they are all more or less on par; the deciding factor can be
> A: the mounting mechanism - some require 3 hands to mount and come in a 1000 piece puzzle
> B: the looks - the old Koolance 370 was a looker, the 380 not so much; the Raystorm is simple "understated" design, while the Swifty has some "transformers" look i guess.
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php
> http://www.frozencpu.com/
> http://www.aquatuning.us/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FrozenCPU most of the blocks are out of stock.
> 
> Is this block any good?
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17483/ex-blc-1348/EK_Supreme_LTX_Intel_CPU_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Acetal_Nickel_CSQ_EK-Supreme_LTX_-_AcetalNickel_CSQ.html?tl=g57c603s1912#blank
> 
> For the pump/res combo
> 
> Is the pump included? Why is the d5 vario cost higher than this one
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17572/ex-pmp-216/EK_D5_X-RES_Top_140_-_Acetal_-_Laing_D5_Swiftech_MCP655-B655655-PWM.html?tl=g57c595s1938
Click to expand...

meh, the EK LTX is the "light" version, it'll work but you get what you pay for.
The Raystorm is a better block IMHO
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/03/18/i7-3930k-cpu-ek-supreme-ltx/

The D5 vario, you can change the speed settings (1-5), the basic D5 is "fixed speed" The Vario is the better choice as you can put it on setting 2 for silent operation.

The EK D5 res you link, is the Res ONLY... still need a pump, a D5 vario
or get the combi http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21023/ex-pmp-252/EK_D5_X-RES_Top_140_w_D5_Vario_Pump_EK-D5_Vario_X-RES_140_incl_pump.html?tl=g57c595s1938

.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> first time water system. going to use primochill petg for build but when i test fit everything i was thinking i should use a short piece of primochill LRT tubing from radiator to pump, its such a short piece and not going to be visible, is this ok? The bend would be a difficult one if i use the petg


Should be ok.

As far as i am concerned, the connection to/from pump should always be hose in order to minimise/avoid vibrations propagating through the loop.


----------



## Paopawdecarabao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> meh, the EK LTX is the "light" version, it'll work but you get what you pay for.
> The Raystorm is a better block IMHO
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/03/18/i7-3930k-cpu-ek-supreme-ltx/
> 
> The D5 vario, you can change the speed settings (1-5), the basic D5 is "fixed speed" The Vario is the better choice as you can put it on setting 2 for silent operation.
> 
> The EK D5 res you link, is the Res ONLY... still need a pump, a D5 vario
> or get the combi http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21023/ex-pmp-252/EK_D5_X-RES_Top_140_w_D5_Vario_Pump_EK-D5_Vario_X-RES_140_incl_pump.html?tl=g57c595s1938
> 
> .


How about the Swiftech MCP35x DDC pump.

I could change the setting through the computer? Which one is better D5 or DDC?

Edit*

I already bought the MCP35X pump for $51 like new on ebay.

What reservoir and fitting do I need? I will buy an EK heatsink for this

Here is the pump http://www.swiftech.com/mcp35x12vdcpump.aspx

And I will just put a top block and res on it.

And also what kind of mounting kit do I need to mount it in the radiator?


----------



## pdasterly

I have extra koolance 60mm reservoir with top, can I use another top as a bottom or do i have to buy the base?
Looking to just throw in system for decoration(water flowing thru)


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> I have extra koolance 60mm reservoir with top, can I use another top as a bottom or do i have to buy the base?
> Looking to just throw in system for decoration(water flowing thru)


Not sure what you want to achieve here









Koolance has res couplers, that allow you to extend the tube res ad infinitum

http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=57_112


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Not sure what you want to achieve here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Koolance has res couplers, that allow you to extend the tube res ad infinitum
> 
> http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=57_112


I want to add 2nd rez to system but in the front of my case where it is visible. I really don't need or have the space for the normal base and would like to know if I can use a top as both the top and bottom


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> I want to add 2nd rez to system but in the front of my case where it is visible. I really don't need or have the space for the normal base and would like to know if I can use a top as both the top and bottom


Do you mean 2 tops or 2 bottoms at same time? Yes


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> Do you mean 2 tops or 2 bottoms at same time? Yes


two tops at same time, I dont need the additional ports on the bottom base


----------



## afokke

how to do a drain port when you have a bottom radiator on the bottom of the case?


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> two tops at same time, I dont need the additional ports on the bottom base


Totally possible. As you already have a res, I guess there will be no problem filling or bleeding the loop...


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> how to do a drain port when you have a bottom radiator on the bottom of the case?


This is how I did mine. I have the mini valve coming from a 90 degree rotary in one of the bottom-facing ports on an Alphacool Monsta.


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> This is how I did mine. I have the mini valve coming from a 90 degree rotary in one of the bottom-facing ports on an Alphacool Monsta.


looks very neat







but you need to have fans underneath for the rad to sit on, right?


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> looks very neat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but you need to have fans underneath for the rad to sit on, right?


Yeah, well it is an 85mm thick rad so it should only really ever be run in push-pull in any case. I suppose you could use a shroud just as well or perhaps drill a hole to extend through the bottom of the case. That might be workable in some situations.

That is one great thing imho about Alphacool rads is the extra ports which make for great fill and drain locations. I wish other rad companies would follow suit with ports on top and bottom.


----------



## rh pc

Not sure why I am confusing myself here, but...

I currently have the XSPC D5 AX 360 Kit. At the time, I went with fitting size 7/16 to 5/8 as it fit very nicely in my case. Also G1/4″ to 7/16″ Compression Fittings (Black Chrome). Wondering now if I could buy a different water block and just exchange the two or does it not fit? Speaking of water blocks, would an additional radiator benefit temps rather than a "better" water block? I also plan to increase the tubing size to 1/2 to 3/4 for my new case, what would be the right 6 new compression fittings for that...G 1/4 to 1/2 or to 3/4?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## GaMbi2004

You are kinda confusing me aswell right there









First of, the G1/4 is the threads size.. Just about EVERY water block, radiator, reservoir, pump, etc uses G1/4 threads..
Quote:


> 7/16 to 5/8


Im assuming you mean "7/16 X 5/8" that is the ID and OD.. the fitting will not take tubes tubes from 7/16'' to 5/8''.. it only takes tubes with inner diameter of 7/16'' and outer diameter of 5/8''
Quote:


> G1/4″ to 7/16″


Does not make sense to me.. sounds like G1/4 thread and push on 7/16'' (ID)
Quote:


> I also plan to increase the tubing size to 1/2 to 3/4


Again.. that would be 1/2'' X 3/4'', 1/2'' being the inner diameter 3/4'' outer diameter.
Those are some big tubes.. I used those myself before changing to acrylic. Fairly good size since they dont kink so easily and looks good in most builds
For 1/2'' X 3/4'' tube you will need: G1/4 threadded 1/2''ID X 3/4''OD fittings.

I hope this clears things out for you








If not, just ask again!
Good luck!


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rh pc*
> 
> Not sure why I am confusing myself here, but...
> 
> I currently have the XSPC D5 AX 360 Kit. At the time, I went with fitting size 7/16 to 5/8 as it fit very nicely in my case. Also G1/4″ to 7/16″ Compression Fittings (Black Chrome). Wondering now if I could buy a different water block and just exchange the two or does it not fit? Speaking of water blocks, would an additional radiator benefit temps rather than a "better" water block? I also plan to increase the tubing size to 1/2 to 3/4 for my new case, what would be the right 6 new compression fittings for that...G 1/4 to 1/2 or to 3/4?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


More rad surface will always have more impact than a "better" block. Unless you can lay your hands on some UnObtainium. Of course, nobody is stopping your from using a Stirling Silver block







Although, since the Raystorm is already one of the better blocks, i cant see where you could find a significantly better block... thus.. adding an extra radiator will yield better results.

.


----------



## afokke

I should probably add a 240mm radiator to cool three R9 290's for a total of 1080mm of rad space (480 + 360 + 240).


----------



## FreeElectron

Any info on how to calculate water pressure in the loop?
Also are the GT AP-15s still on top regarding high cfm to noise ratio?
What about the GT AP-45s? How do they compare?


----------



## morencyam

Finding GT's now is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but yes, AFAIK, they are still King.

I believe AP-45's are right at the same level at AP-15's if you tune them to the same RPM


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Finding GT's now is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but yes, AFAIK, they are still King.
> 
> I believe AP-45's are right at the same level at AP-15's if you *tune* them to the same RPM


How?
Any thing special that i should consider?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How?
> Any thing special that i should consider?


How do you tune them to the same RPM? By using a fan controller. Personally, I only like Lamptron controllers. High quality and they look really nice. The Aquaero controller are really nice too, but are a bit expensive.


----------



## rh pc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> You are kinda confusing me aswell right there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of, the G1/4 is the threads size.. Just about EVERY water block, radiator, reservoir, pump, etc uses G1/4 threads..
> 
> Im assuming you mean "7/16 X 5/8" that is the ID and OD.. the fitting will not take tubes tubes from 7/16'' to 5/8''.. it only takes tubes with inner diameter of 7/16'' and outer diameter of 5/8''
> Does not make sense to me.. sounds like G1/4 thread and push on 7/16'' (ID)
> Again.. that would be 1/2'' X 3/4'', 1/2'' being the inner diameter 3/4'' outer diameter.
> Those are some big tubes.. I used those myself before changing to acrylic. Fairly good size since they dont kink so easily and looks good in most builds
> For 1/2'' X 3/4'' tube you will need: G1/4 threadded 1/2''ID X 3/4''OD fittings.
> 
> I hope this clears things out for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not, just ask again!
> Good luck!


It does clear it up. Thanks so much. Yes, the G 1/4 is the threading size on the water block and believe it is standard anyways. I was worried for some reason that the tubing and fitting size I had originally ordered would have affected that 1/4 threading.

Basically, the compression fitting size needs to match the tubing size in ID and OD, the 1/4 threading is not relevant in that sense at all, right?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> How do you tune them to the same RPM? By using a fan controller. Personally, I only like Lamptron controllers. High quality and they look really nice. The Aquaero controller are really nice too, but are a bit expensive.


I was afraid that the word "tune" referred to something special.

Any way
What about the water pressure?
Is 1.5 bar enough , how do i calculate it?


----------



## rh pc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> More rad surface will always have more impact than a "better" block. Unless you can lay your hands on some UnObtainium. Of course, nobody is stopping your from using a Stirling Silver block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although, since the Raystorm is already one of the better blocks, i cant see where you could find a significantly better block... thus.. adding an extra radiator will yield better results.
> 
> .


Thanks, that makes sense. I thought of the "better" block because I could get my hands on a brand new Koolance CPU 380-A for $45. I know the Raystorm Copper version is quite amazing, but I wasn't sure if the Raystorm block that came with my AX 360 kit is up to par with EK-Supremacy, CPU-380, etc. I have my FX-8350 running @ 4.8 Ghz, temps at 61 would be max during gaming, but does hit 70 during prime95. That is "pretty good" I think, so I will focus my attention on the radiator to possibly squeeze a couple of degrees out of it...Either go to a 420mm or add a 240mm. I really like that the XSPC kits can be "upgraded" or rather are interchangeable with individual parts, such as a different radiator, pump and res. So, next question, other than the radiator surface area, can I get better temps when using another pump? I always thought that having every component individually yields better results than a kit even if it is a $300 one from XSPC, is the D5 res/bay pump I have good enough?


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How?
> Any thing special that i should consider?


My motherboard controls fan speed, no special controller needed


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rh pc*
> 
> It does clear it up. Thanks so much. Yes, the G 1/4 is the threading size on the water block and believe it is standard anyways. I was worried for some reason that the tubing and fitting size I had originally ordered would have affected that 1/4 threading.
> 
> Basically, the compression fitting size needs to match the tubing size in ID and OD, the 1/4 threading is not relevant in that sense at all, right?


Right


----------



## rh pc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Right


Upon further research, turns out the XSPC AX-360mm radiator would only truly be topped by a Monsta Radiator as it is already top notch, especially in the 40mm thickness category. I cannot really use a thicker radiator in my Antec Twelve Hundred unless I mount it outside or mod the front panel and I already modded this case enough. The new case I plan to get, Phanteks Enthoo Luxe, does not offer much more space in terms of thick radiators, I believe 45mm would be close to the max, though it does offer 420mm in length and I think a 480mm rad has been tested as well on youtube.

Since my current rad and water block received such encouraging reviews from other users, I was basically advised to get a thicker or longer radiator, get the best static pressure fans (replacing stock XSPC) to push and some high airflow fans to pull the air for a push/pull config. If I want to insist on getting 1/2 to 3/4" or 3/8 to 5/8" tubing, all I have to do is get the appropriate fittings size to match desired tubing. I am only wc'ing my FX-8350 and not the R9 280x as of yet. Lastly, a pump such as the Koolance 400 or Swiftech MCP655 would not yield a noticeable difference compared to the XSPC D5 bay/res unit.

I started with Corsair H-50, then H-110i and then took the step to XSPC as it is the closest to a true custom loop. And I had always planned on upgrading certain parts down the road making it a true custom build.

Here is what I had planned to do...FYI:

1. Replace Raystorm AMD CPU block from AX 360 kit with Koolance CPU-380A or EK-Supremacy water block

2. Get a stand-alone pump such as Swiftech MCP-655 or the like also means that I would need a stand-alone reservoir

3. Finally change my tubing and compression fittings to match my new case design...

Any input would be appreciated as this almost means my AX 360 kit could only be improved aesthetically. A bigger radiator, better fans is truly the only performance enhancer? Is there really no advantage to a stand-alone pump/res? Is that all for visual appearance?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rh pc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Upon further research,
> 
> 
> Spoiler: --snip--
> 
> 
> 
> turns out the XSPC AX-360mm radiator would only truly be topped by a Monsta Radiator as it is already top notch, especially in the 40mm thickness category. I cannot really use a thicker radiator in my Antec Twelve Hundred unless I mount it outside or mod the front panel and I already modded this case enough. The new case I plan to get, Phanteks Enthoo Luxe, does not offer much more space in terms of thick radiators, I believe 45mm would be close to the max, though it does offer 420mm in length and I think a 480mm rad has been tested as well on youtube.
> 
> Since my current rad and water block received such encouraging reviews from other users, I was basically advised to get a thicker or longer radiator, get the best static pressure fans (replacing stock XSPC) to push and some high airflow fans to pull the air for a push/pull config. If I want to insist on getting 1/2 to 3/4" or 3/8 to 5/8" tubing, all I have to do is get the appropriate fittings size to match desired tubing. I am only wc'ing my FX-8350 and not the R9 280x as of yet. Lastly, a pump such as the Koolance 400 or Swiftech MCP655 would not yield a noticeable difference compared to the XSPC D5 bay/res unit.
> 
> I started with Corsair H-50, then H-110i and then took the step to XSPC as it is the closest to a true custom loop. And I had always planned on upgrading certain parts down the road making it a true custom build.
> 
> Here is what I had planned to do...FYI:
> 
> 1. Replace Raystorm AMD CPU block from AX 360 kit with Koolance CPU-380A or EK-Supremacy water block
> 
> 2. Get a stand-alone pump such as Swiftech MCP-655 or the like also means that I would need a stand-alone reservoir
> 
> 3. Finally change my tubing and compression fittings to match my new case design...
> 
> 
> 
> Any input would be appreciated as this almost means my AX 360 kit could only be improved aesthetically. A bigger radiator, better fans is truly the only performance enhancer? Is there really no advantage to a stand-alone pump/res? Is that all for visual appearance?
Click to expand...

A separate pump and (tube)res is handy if you want a particular "look" OR if you really need those ODD bays or i you are ocd about noise.

As said before, a "better" block means what exactly? 1-2°C difference? The "best blocks" TOP-10 has about 2°C separation between the best and the worst block.... Its like the quest for the "better" TIM. Not worth the effort/money. And if you are in the situation that you *really* need that extra 1°C from a "better" block, you frankly have bigger problems.

More/bigger Rads with decent fans will always yield better results


----------



## afokke

Are both the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 and XSPC RX480 45m thick? Can anyone confirm that the Alphacool has 6 ports whilst the XSPC only has 4


----------



## pdasterly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Are both the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 and XSPC RX480 45m thick? Can anyone confirm that the Alphacool has 6 ports whilst the XSPC only has 4


Frozencpu is your friend, they list specs and have pics of both


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Are both the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 and XSPC RX480 45m thick? Can anyone confirm that the Alphacool has 6 ports whilst the XSPC only has 4


the XT45 is 45mm and the RX480 V3 is 56mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> Frozencpu is your friend, they list specs and have pics of both


Frozen CPU only lists the core thickness, not the thickness of the entire radiator


----------



## afokke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pdasterly*
> 
> Frozencpu is your friend, they list specs and have pics of both
> 
> 
> 
> Frozen CPU only lists the core thickness, not the thickness of the entire radiator
Click to expand...

true, FrozenCPU's specs are incomplete.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> the XT45 is 45mm and the RX480 V3 is 56mm


thanks







I don't know why I didn't just go to XSPC website


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> Are both the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 and XSPC RX480 45m thick? *Can anyone confirm that the Alphacool has 6 ports whilst the XSPC only has 4*


Alphacool ST30 has 4 ports two on one side and two on the end, same as XSPC. oops, the ST30 has only 2 ports.
Alphacool XT45 has 6 ports, two on both sides and two on the end.
Alphacool UT60 and Monsta have the same 6 ports plus an additional 7th port on the other end for a fill , drain port or de-aeration.


----------



## scorpscarx

Got my loop installed, did everything right over 3 days, not leaking anywhere after 24 hours of testing, Prime 95 still giving me 90+ temps after 10 minutes with pump and 6 fans maxed.

Either I have the hottest 4790K in the world, my block isn't mounted right (which boggles me because it's tightened perfectly, spent a long time doing it), or I was severely spoiled by delidding my 3750K.

Coming from a noctua dh-14, temps are about 10c less in Left4Dead2 now, I like that game for temp testing.

My layout isn't perfect, pump down to block, block up to rad, rad down to pump, but somethings up.

XSPC Raystorm RX360 kit with 6 fans.


----------



## pdasterly

getting close, 1st water cooled system

drain


pump, murdered the fitting with some pliers


bends not perfect but i will do over one day


----------



## pdasterly

no leaks so far


----------



## GaMbi2004

Psychedelic man! Looks really sweet!
Are those acrylic tubes? if so, I would agree "bends not perfect" but if they are soft tubes, I think it is awesome! and wanna know how you did it.

And congrats on a leak free first W/C build


----------



## pdasterly

actually looks funny in pic like everything is pink but in person you can see all the red parts. My cell phone camera is picking up more uv light than red lights. I used primochill petg. Sadly system has to come back apart, one of my 290x didnt make the train


----------



## Newbie2009

Can anyone recommend me a good cpu block. My 3770k is running hotter than I'd like, even with low volts.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Can anyone recommend me a good cpu block. My 3770k is running hotter than I'd like, even with low volts.


Delid? 15-20 degrees to gain there


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> Delid? 15-20 degrees to gain there


Nah I know my limits lol.


----------



## afokke

Think a single 480mm radiator is enough for one CPU (i5-4690K) and one high-end GPU (780 Ti or R9 290)?


----------



## morencyam

Easily. I had an i7 950 and two heat machine GTX470's in SLI on a single 480mm radiator for a while without any issues at all.


----------



## hajnalka

Need advice.

Reservoirs 5,25 EK-BAY SPIN Reservoir - Plexi CSQ
out port to
pump dual ddc in side
pump out side to
VRM water block motherboard in side
out side to
cpu block in side
out side cpu block to
northbridge waterblock in side
out side to
gpu waterblock in side
out side to
rads Alpacool XT45
Out rads to
Next rads Phobya G changer V2
out the rads to
Reservoirs in port

uff.









Is ok ?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajnalka*
> 
> Need advice.
> 
> *Reservoirs> pump dual ddc> VRM water block> northbridge waterblock> cpu waterblock> rads Alpacool XT45> Phobya G changer V2> res
> *
> uff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is ok ?


Much easier to read that way









And yes, that order looks fine. Loop order makes no difference, just as long as the res is before the pump.


----------



## hajnalka

Res is mounted to latest 5.25 bay and tube lengh cca 25cm (9.842519685 INCH) to pump.
Problem is pump need water to cooling and move rotation. Lengh tube is to problem go to water to pump, when is air in tube pump is not have pressure and burning pump.
Is right?


----------



## afokke

are fitting adapters (for 45 or 90 degree bends, etc.) better or worse than just getting a 45/90-degree fitting?


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *afokke*
> 
> are fitting adapters (for 45 or 90 degree bends, etc.) better or worse than just getting a 45/90-degree fitting?


Same


----------



## Ramzinho

guys i'm wondering what are the reservoirs compatible with mcp35X.. seems like there is not much.. the most obvious one is the swiftech one.. but it looks so ugly.. excuse my noobness


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzinho*
> 
> guys i'm wondering what are the reservoirs compatible with mcp35X.. seems like there is not much.. the most obvious one is the swiftech one.. but it looks so ugly.. excuse my noobness


You can use any DDC reservoir top on the MCP35X.

For example, the high quality Aqualis reservoir http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3088



To attach it, you replace the stock MCP35X pump top with this top http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=2927



Just be warned that Swiftech don't like you changing the top.


----------



## Ramzinho

Thanks @WiSK ... but i need something less pricey







i'm on a budget kinda


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzinho*
> 
> Thanks @WiSK ... but i need something less pricey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm on a budget kinda


Haha, yeah I picked the Rolls Royce of reservoirs.

If you don't really need it directly attached to the pump, then I recommend the EK RES-X3. Easy to use, easy to mount, looks good, reasonable prices.
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/reservoirs-and-acc/reservoirs/ek-res-x3-series.html


----------



## Ramzinho

thanks a lot wisk.. now i understand how it works


----------



## ccRicers

Just wanted to know if anyone else has used the XSPC brand angled adapters.

I've got some leaks from my 45 degree adapters. They appeared to leak from where it swivels. I never had leak problems with their 90 degree adapters, so I am just using the 90 degree ones for now.


----------



## SuDDi

I'm trying to plan my first water cooling project. Silence will be the big focus point. Most everything is up in the air at this point, and I'm a bit unsure of what to look for in regards to radiators/fans. I intend to run the fans at around 400-800 RPM but what would be optimal for a low-noise setup?

I've heard low fin density is a plus when running low speed fans, although I hardly ever find such a metric listed. But regarding radiators; what thickness would be ideal? Are X(120/140mm) radiators more or less suited for my purposes? And talking about fans... I mean regardless of quality no fan will offer any great performance or high static pressure at such low RPM, but how much does it really vary? Prices certainly do. And finally the question of a single fan layer vs a push+pull setup.

So what combination of radiator and fans would you say is ideal for low noise? Assuming we deem space largely a non-issue.


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuDDi*
> 
> I'm trying to plan my first water cooling project. Silence will be the big focus point. Most everything is up in the air at this point, and I'm a bit unsure of what to look for in regards to radiators/fans. I intend to run the fans at around 400-800 RPM but what would be optimal for a low-noise setup?
> 
> I've heard low fin density is a plus when running low speed fans, although I hardly ever find such a metric listed. But regarding radiators; what thickness would be ideal? Are X(120/140mm) radiators more or less suited for my purposes? And talking about fans... I mean regardless of quality no fan will offer any great performance or high static pressure at such low RPM, but how much does it really vary? Prices certainly do. And finally the question of a single fan layer vs a push+pull setup.
> 
> So what combination of radiator and fans would you say is ideal for low noise? Assuming we deem space largely a non-issue.


Low fin density means that you dont need as much pressure to getg good flow through the fins.. witch translate to low RPM = low noise









Im using 30mm thick low fin density with noctua 120mm F12's in push config at 900 rpm, witch is next to silent.. my pump makes more noise than my fans








If you get some good fans, 800 RPM is gonna be very quiet.. if you go high density radiators, push/pull at 800rpm should do the trick as well.

If you go push/pull config on low density, you can bring the fan speed down even further! witch again means less noise (even with double the amount of fans)

I would go with 120mm since 140 isnt as popular and therefore not as perfected as 120's
atleast this was the case when I put together my loop


----------



## Newbie2009

Can anyone recommend me some good rad 120mm fans. Quiet ones? I was going to get some more gentle typhoons seem to be eol


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Can anyone recommend me some good rad 120mm fans. Quiet ones? I was going to get some more gentle typhoons seem to be eol


If you have a look at the comparative testing reviews Martin has done at the link below you'll find more info about fans on rads than anyone would ever need to know, but if you have enough to rad for what you are trying to cool to keep your fans at low speeds it doesn't really matter all that much. It isn't until 1300 rpms or more that 'good' fans start to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/category/fans/
Quote:


> *BEST FAN 300FPM (~1000 RPM)*
> 
> At this point I would call all the fans relatively the same. The Cougars, Noiseblocker, Noctua, GTs, Piranha, are all performing in that 36-39dBA and subjectively hard to tell much difference. *This and slower speeds is where it just doesn't make sense to spend a ton of money on fans. Cheaper value fans perform just as well as the expensive ones and the Gentle Typhoons also don't really separate themselves much.* I actually prefer the sleeved and HDB bearing type fans a little better in noise quality at these slower speeds. I would probably call it a tie between the Noiseblocker B12-3, Noctua NF-F12, and Cougar HDB as they seem to have a slightly smoother sound quality at these slower speeds.


----------



## dodgethis

Is the D5 supposed to come apart like this? I had some grinding noise coming from the pump during a test run. I opened up the pump and freely spun the impeller. It was smooth for a while and started to be rough a bit. After spinning it a bit more, I realised I could pull apart the pump and it was held down via magnetic force.



Also this hole in the centre of the impeller. It looks broken to me.


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodgethis*
> 
> Is the D5 supposed to come apart like this? I had some grinding noise coming from the pump during a test run. I opened up the pump and freely spun the impeller. It was smooth for a while and started to be rough a bit. After spinning it a bit more, I realised I could pull apart the pump and it was held down via magnetic force.


Completely Fine.. it's how it's supposed to be.


----------



## kael13

Reading conflicting reports everywhere. The definitive Push vs. Pull guys, I have 3 Noctua IPPC fans I need to mount on a 45mm thick rad - exhaust - top of case. Which is best or is it marginal? (>=1 degree + is not marginal if you ask me)


----------



## Shpongle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Reading conflicting reports everywhere. The definitive Push vs. Pull guys, I have 3 Noctua IPPC fans I need to mount on a 45mm thick rad - exhaust - top of case. Which is best or is it marginal? (>=1 degree + is not marginal if you ask me)


Push results in better performance over pull. I can't say by how much but Martin did some testing regarding push vs. pull vs. push+pull and also tested those configurations with shrouds.

Link


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Reading conflicting reports everywhere. The definitive Push vs. Pull guys, I have 3 Noctua IPPC fans I need to mount on a 45mm thick rad - exhaust - top of case. Which is best or is it marginal? (>=1 degree + is not marginal if you ask me)


It can also depend on the rad, the fans, the speeds the fans are running. If you really want to know what's best for your rig, then there's nothing better than testing both ways yourself


----------



## scorpscarx

How much external heat can this lrt advanced tubing take, one of mine goes right over my classy exhaust.

edit:
I looked up PVC properties and it says break down starts to occur at 140C, so it's probably fine.


----------



## Flancen

thinking of building my first WC rig, with only one gefoce 560 as the hottest component, might upgrade in a year or so, but i want it to run as quiet as possible, even when upgraded to what ever card i hot then, and i have an entho primo so i can fit 420 in top and 480 in bottom, will that setup be to overkill to keep the noise down, considering the resistance the pumps will face when pumping water?

hugs


----------



## morencyam

A 420 and 480 would be able to handle cpu and 3 gpus quietly. That's plenty of radiator overkill for what you want to do


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flancen*
> 
> thinking of building my first WC rig, with only one gefoce 560 as the hottest component, might upgrade in a year or so, but i want it to run as quiet as possible, even when upgraded to what ever card i hot then, and i have an entho primo so i can fit 420 in top and 480 in bottom, will that setup be to overkill to keep the noise down, considering the resistance the pumps will face when pumping water?
> 
> hugs


2x420 is overkill for what ever single GPU you choose, yes..
420? 3x140mm? I would go 3x120(360) instead.. it is easier to get silent radiator fans for 120mm afaik..
Radiators arent that restrictive, and a single D5 pump will take care of your GPU, CPU and 2x420(or 360) no problem.
With this setup you can run single fan setup (no push/pull needed) at sub 1000rpm's witch will run very quiet if you choose the right fans.

hope this answers your questions, otherwise feel free to ask again








Good luck with the project!


----------



## Flancen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> A 420 and 480 would be able to handle cpu and 3 gpus quietly. That's plenty of radiator overkill for what you want to do


that means it runs silent fanwise
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> 2x420 is overkill for what ever single GPU you choose, yes..
> 420? 3x140mm? I would go 3x120(360) instead.. it is easier to get silent radiator fans for 120mm afaik..
> Radiators arent that restrictive, and a single D5 pump will take care of your GPU, CPU and 2x420(or 360) no problem.
> With this setup you can run single fan setup (no push/pull needed) at sub 1000rpm's witch will run very quiet if you choose the right fans.
> 
> hope this answers your questions, otherwise feel free to ask again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with the project!


i will, with that much radiator area, the build might be able to handle stresstesting the CPU passivly, the GPU might be another matter, i promis i post pictures of it^^
will probably happen prior to christmas


----------



## GaMbi2004

passive? I doubt it








I have 120 + 240 + 1080 (3x360) and I tried this







the amount of rad space allows you to have more water in the loop, and therefore the water temp wont raise as fast.. but with no air going through the radiators, the water will eventually raise to critical levels.
Also, with good fans running at low RPM (enough to keep the water close to ambient) you wont really be able to hear them


----------



## FreeElectron

Will M3 and M4 screws work on any fans?
I can't seem to find fan manufacturers mentioning which screws that should work with their fans.


----------



## ccRicers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Will M3 and M4 screws work on any fans?
> I can't seem to find fan manufacturers mentioning which screws that should work with their fans.


Screw holes on fans are usually not threaded and made for self-threading screws (they are the short stubby looking screws) to bite into the plastic. M3 and M4 screws would just slide through most of those fans. You need to look at the radiators you're using for thread compatibility, since their holes are meant to take a certain type of screw.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> Screw holes on fans are usually not threaded and made for self-threading screws (they are the short stubby looking screws) to bite into the plastic. M3 and M4 screws would just slide through most of those fans. You need to look at the radiators you're using for thread compatibility, since their holes are meant to take a certain type of screw.


Thanks for the answer.


----------



## DeviousAddict

Hi, noob question.
I have just finished my loop but then had a thought. Whats the best method for adding in a drainage point?
If need be i can add a picture of my loop when i get home.

Many thanks


----------



## GaMbi2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviousAddict*
> 
> Hi, noob question.
> I have just finished my loop but then had a thought. Whats the best method for adding in a drainage point?
> If need be i can add a picture of my loop when i get home.
> 
> Many thanks


I dont think there is a "Best method".. personally, my loop has QDC in res for connecting external rad when needed, this makes for a nice drain since the tube can be disconnected and let to the lowest point in the loop









Some uses a T fitting with a blocked up tube.. doesnt look that good, but if it can be hidden, will work great. just unblock the tube and open the filler port to allow air to enter the system.

Others simply flips the res out of the cabinet and let the system drain through the filler port. this may not be the best method since the inlet and outlet will drain simultaneously and not allow air to enter the system, making for a slow drain.

"best" thing is to have the drain at the lowest point of the loop and open a port (preferably the filler port) to allow air to enter.

Hope this answers your question







Post a picture when you get home and we might be able to find the "best method" in your case


----------



## DeviousAddict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GaMbi2004*
> 
> I dont think there is a "Best method".. personally, my loop has QDC in res for connecting external rad when needed, this makes for a nice drain since the tube can be disconnected and let to the lowest point in the loop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some uses a T fitting with a blocked up tube.. doesnt look that good, but if it can be hidden, will work great. just unblock the tube and open the filler port to allow air to enter the system.
> 
> Others simply flips the res out of the cabinet and let the system drain through the filler port. this may not be the best method since the inlet and outlet will drain simultaneously and not allow air to enter the system, making for a slow drain.
> 
> "best" thing is to have the drain at the lowest point of the loop and open a port (preferably the filler port) to allow air to enter.
> 
> Hope this answers your question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post a picture when you get home and we might be able to find the "best method" in your case


Cheers for the tips. I was thinking of placing a T shape connection in the middle pipe of my loop (see pic) and have a stop cap which i just remove to drain it.



Cheers









Oh and +rep for helping


----------



## CrazyElf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviousAddict*
> 
> Hi, noob question.
> I have just finished my loop but then had a thought. Whats the best method for adding in a drainage point?
> If need be i can add a picture of my loop when i get home.
> 
> Many thanks


Technically there is no "best" position for a loop. The other thing I would mention is that it really depends on the loop itself. Each loop is different.

In general though, you want the drain port to be at the lowest point of the loop. Let gravity do the draining and combine that with air pressure.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviousAddict*
> 
> Cheers for the tips. I was thinking of placing a T shape connection in the middle pipe of my loop (see pic) and have a stop cap which i just remove to drain it.


Does that radiator have a drain port at the end? The bottom of the radiator is the lowest point of the loop.



Something like the radiator above has? If so, all you have to do is to use that drain port to drain the loop. It's the lowest point. I'd also consider opening the reservoir when draining (it will let air into the loop).

Just be careful not to get any liquid onto the hard drives below (ideally remove the hard drives when draining and use one of those anti-spill mats that can store a lot of liquid if needed).


----------



## DeviousAddict

@CrazyElf no my rad doesn't have a drain point unfortunatly









I've ordered some white monsoon compression fittings and a matching T connection. So gonna drain it carefully this weekend and then mod the center tube for easy draining in the future.


----------



## CrazyElf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviousAddict*
> 
> @CrazyElf no my rad doesn't have a drain point unfortunatly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've ordered some white monsoon compression fittings and a matching T connection. So gonna drain it carefully this weekend and then mod the center tube for easy draining in the future.


Another option is to put a bucket beneath and just cut the tubing. Remove the GPUs and the hard drives before doing this. You will need to replace the tubing that you cut of course, but it's the least time consuming.

Yet another option is to put a drain on the reservoir and to tilt the case (use spill proof mats for this).

Edit:

Whatever you do, just remember to have something to catch the spill, if there is one, and as indicated, it might be easier for you if you remove the GPU, HDDs, and perhaps the RAM too when draining.


----------



## DeviousAddict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyElf*
> 
> Another option is to put a bucket beneath and just cut the tubing. Remove the GPUs and the hard drives before doing this. You will need to replace the tubing that you cut of course, but it's the least time consuming.
> 
> Yet another option is to put a drain on the reservoir and to tilt the case (use spill proof mats for this).


I was thinking of just cutting the centre pipe in the middle, that way i don't need to disconnect anything and i can attach the T piece easily

Edit: just double checked my order and i have purchased a 90' monsoon fitting not the T connection i thought







oh well i can still use it though.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviousAddict*
> 
> @CrazyElf no my rad doesn't have a drain point unfortunatly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've ordered some white monsoon compression fittings and a matching T connection. So gonna drain it carefully this weekend and then mod the center tube for easy draining in the future.


As CrazyElf said, "the bottom of the radiator is the lowest point of the loop" so if you put a t-split on the centre tube then only the block and reservoir will drain, but not the radiator.

Radiators are basically like a U-bend: water goes in one port, down through half the tubes to the bottom plenum, then up through the remaining half of the tubes and out the other port.

If it was my rig, and I wanted a low-cost easy way to drain:

lay it on it's right side, so motherboard pointing to the ceiling.
(remove all cables coming out the back)
lift the case so the spare port on the pump/res is the highest point in your loop (put a thick book underneath)
unscrew that spare port on pump/res (have paper towel handy)
screw in a compression fitting and a spare bit of tubing (might need ek-extender there too)
point spare hose into drainage bowl
now remove the thick book so the case is flat again
carefully lift case up by it's front, so that pump/res becomes the lowest point in the loop, and radiator is the highest point
all coolant should drain out; help it through the pump by squeezing tubes


----------



## DeviousAddict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> ...........
> If it was my rig, and I wanted a low-cost easy way to drain:
> 
> lay it on it's right side, so motherboard pointing to the ceiling.
> (remove all cables coming out the back)
> lift the case so the spare port on the pump/res is the highest point in your loop (put a thick book underneath)
> unscrew that spare port on pump/res (have paper towel handy)
> screw in a compression fitting and a spare bit of tubing (might need ek-extender there too)
> point spare hose into drainage bowl
> now remove the thick book so the case is flat again
> carefully lift case up by it's front, so that pump/res becomes the lowest point in the loop, and radiator is the highest point
> all coolant should drain out; help it through the pump by squeezing tubes


That sounds like a good idea and makes plenty of sense. Turning the case to make the Rez/Pump the lowest point is pretty easy, feel a little dumb for not even thinking of that to be honest









cheers for this









Edit: for some reason the Rep button isn't working at work. I'll add rep when i get home.


----------



## FreeElectron

How do i calculate my loop's headpressure / flow?
And how do i choose a pump?


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How do i calculate my loop's headpressure / flow?
> And how do i choose a pump?


You can't really calculate it beforehand, if that's what you are asking. Maybe make a guess if all the blocks in your loop have been independently tested. For a completed loop, you can add a flow meter.

In the past, pump pressure was important for introducing turbulence. Blocks were simple and needed some help. But nowadays blocks are better designed and turbulence from the pump isn't so important.

Choosing a pump: D5 is the go-to pump for most rigs. Runs cool and when decoupled is reasonably quiet even at max rpms. DDC with PWM control can be dialed down and is smaller, but runs hotter and often louder. If you have only CPU+GPU block and single rad, then you can get away with something weaker like DCP or even DC-LT.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> You can't really calculate it beforehand, if that's what you are asking. Maybe make a guess if all the blocks in your loop have been independently tested. For a completed loop, you can add a flow meter.
> 
> In the past, pump pressure was important for introducing turbulence. Blocks were simple and needed some help. But nowadays blocks are better designed and turbulence from the pump isn't so important.
> 
> Choosing a pump: D5 is the go-to pump for most rigs. Runs cool and when *decoupled* is reasonably quiet even at max rpms. DDC with PWM control can be dialed down and is smaller, but runs hotter and often louder. If you have only CPU+GPU block and single rad, then you can get away with something weaker like DCP or even DC-LT.


What does this
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> *decoupled*


mean?

I am thinking Koolance CPU-380I + motherboard VRM block (maybe?) + motherboard chipset blocks (maybe?)+ MO-RA3 9x140 for a highly overclocked 5960x (Don't want to go phase change route to avoid insulation)
I am also aiming for 5c to 2.5c water-cpu delta
As far as i know the MO-RA3 has a high restriction. And according to research the D5 is good but the DDC is better for more restrictive loops but, DDC adds heat !!
I have also read about people complaining about pumps failing (DDC iirc).
I have also read about pump tops and pump heatsink? (more details)?
Will pumps with too much pressure cause leaks (or explosions)?

I really need to know all the info to be able to decide on a pump properly.
Will this ([Bundymania User Review] Mora 2 / Mora 3 / Phobya Xtreme 1080) help to calculate (somehow) MO-RA3 pressure drop?


----------



## WiSK

Decouple = to separate.

You screw the pump to a piece of hard rubber, then screw a second piece of hard rubber to the case floor or pump mount. Then you take a piece of soft rubber and glue it in between the two pieces of hard rubber. It eliminates vibration from the pump.



DDC indeed has a higher head pressure, but when run at full speed it's going to need a heatsink. But the D5 is close in pressure, I would always prefer it in a large system. (Although I build only SFF recently, so use DDC for the size.)

Bundy's review gives exact litres per hour... for his system. It includes two GPU blocks of unknown restriction and a MB block of unknown restriction. He didn't test the radiators separately. But it's still a useful review. We can make the conclusion that you will need two D5s at least.

Regarding "5c to 2.5c water-cpu delta". Can you explain why this goal is important to you? Usually, we talk about water-_ambient_ delta, i.e. the temperature of the water compared to the fresh intake air (or room temp). I should point out that generally the largest factors determining temperature of components are frontal radiator area and fan speed.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Decouple = to separate.
> 
> You screw the pump to a piece of hard rubber, then screw a second piece of hard rubber to the case floor or pump mount. Then you take a piece of soft rubber and glue it in between the two pieces of hard rubber. It eliminates vibration from the pump.
> 
> 
> 
> DDC indeed has a higher head pressure, but when run at full speed it's going to need a heatsink. But the D5 is close in pressure, I would always prefer it in a large system. (Although I build only SFF recently, so use DDC for the size.)
> 
> Bundy's review gives exact litres per hour... for his system. It includes two GPU blocks of unknown restriction and a MB block of unknown restriction. He didn't test the radiators separately. But it's still a useful review. We can make the conclusion that you will need two D5s at least.
> 
> Regarding "5c to 2.5c water-cpu delta". Can you explain why this goal is important to you? Usually, we talk about water-_ambient_ delta, i.e. the temperature of the water compared to the fresh intake air (or room temp). I should point out that generally the largest factors determining temperature of components are frontal radiator area and fan speed.


If i'm going to need two D5s at least. Then how much would i need cover all the mentioned components with a good margin (I don't want bare minimum).
I forgot to add that i will be running external radiator (obviously) which might result in longer tubes.
So, How much would i need or how could i estimate the number that i need.

Regarding the water-cpu delta
I actually meant ambient-water delta.

As far as i know
Target component temp = ambient temp + ambient to coolant delta (Affected by radiators) + coolant to component delta (Affected by waterblocks)
Ambient temp where i live without AC can get upto 50c (rare) and it is usual to see 45c and 46c in summer.


----------



## Juggalo23451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> If i'm going to need two D5s at least. Then how much would i need cover all the mentioned components with a good margin (I don't want bare minimum).
> I forgot to add that i will be running external radiator (obviously) which might result in longer tubes.
> So, How much would i need or how could i estimate the number that i need.
> 
> Regarding the water-cpu delta
> I actually meant ambient-water delta.
> 
> As far as i know
> Target component temp = ambient temp + ambient to coolant delta (Affected by radiators) + coolant to component delta (Affected by waterblocks)
> Ambient temp where i live without AC can get upto 50c (rare) and it is usual to see 45c and 46c in summer.


how do you figure you need 2 pumps


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> If i'm going to need two D5s at least. Then how much would i need cover all the mentioned components with a good margin (I don't want bare minimum).


Start with two. Buy a flow meter, check the actual situation once you have it installed. Then decide if you need more.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> how do you figure you need 2 pumps


It's a massive radiator 140 x 9, will be placed externally, and he wants MB cooling as well. Bundy's review used 2 DDCs and got 170 l/h, that's like 0.7gpm. Hard to tell what flow would be with a single D5. What's your experience about this? Why not have two pumps?


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Start with two. Buy a flow meter, check the actual situation once you have it installed. Then decide if you need more.
> It's a massive radiator 140 x 9, will be placed externally, and he wants MB cooling as well. Bundy's review used 2 DDCs and got 170 l/h, that's like 0.7gpm. Hard to tell what flow would be with a single D5. What's your experience about this? Why not have two pumps?


I don't think he *needs* two pumps. I run a fairly complex loop, with 4 rads (3 different brands), 2 mismatched GPU blocks with some nutty connections, and 2 sets of QDCs. One D5 vario at full speed will push 1.7GPM, according to my flow meter. Two D5 varios at full speed is around 2.9GPM. One D5 is sufficient for almost any loop, unless you prefer the redundancy (like me, only reason I have 2). Is the external rad that much more restrictive than the average rad? I can't imagine ANY loop NEEDING twin D5's.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bart*
> 
> I don't think he *needs* two pumps. I run a fairly complex loop, with 4 rads (3 different brands), 2 mismatched GPU blocks with some nutty connections, and 2 sets of QDCs. One D5 vario at full speed will push 1.7GPM, according to my flow meter. Two D5 varios at full speed is around 2.9GPM. One D5 is sufficient for almost any loop, unless you prefer the redundancy (like me, only reason I have 2). Is the external rad that much more restrictive than the average rad? I can't imagine ANY loop NEEDING twin D5's.


The MORA is specifically restrictive due to it's design. Look at that multiple long runs of copper tubing it has. I don't have the numbers or tests now, but I'm pretty sure a loop that contains a MORA definitely benefits from dual D5's.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juggalo23451*
> 
> how do you figure you need 2 pumps





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Bundy's review gives exact litres per hour... for his system. It includes two GPU blocks of unknown restriction and a MB block of unknown restriction. He didn't test the radiators separately. But it's still a useful review. We can make the conclusion that you will need *two D5s at least*.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> If i'm going to need two D5s at least. Then how much would i need cover all the mentioned components with a good margin (I don't want bare minimum).
> I forgot to add that i will be running external radiator (obviously) which might result in longer tubes.
> So, How much would i need or how could i estimate the number that i need.
Click to expand...





Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Start with two. Buy a flow meter, check the actual situation once you have it installed. Then decide if you need more.
> It's a massive radiator 140 x 9, will be placed externally, and he wants MB cooling as well. Bundy's review used 2 DDCs and got 170 l/h, that's like 0.7gpm. Hard to tell what flow would be with a single D5. What's your experience about this? Why not have two pumps?


I might consider this.
But i'd rather try good estimation before i try anything.
I live on the other side of the world, and shipping is going to cost a lot of money and time.
So i prefer to over-plan to minimize trial and errors.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bart*
> 
> I don't think he *needs* two pumps. I run a fairly complex loop, with 4 rads (3 different brands), 2 mismatched GPU blocks with some nutty connections, and 2 sets of QDCs. One D5 vario at full speed will push 1.7GPM, according to my flow meter. Two D5 varios at full speed is around 2.9GPM. One D5 is sufficient for almost any loop, unless you prefer the redundancy (like me, only reason I have 2). Is the external rad that much more restrictive than the average rad? I can't imagine ANY loop NEEDING twin D5's.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> The MORA is specifically restrictive due to it's design. Look at that multiple long runs of copper tubing it has. I don't have the numbers or tests now, but I'm pretty sure a loop that contains a MORA definitely benefits from dual D5's.


Ok, i'm really confused now.


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Ok, i'm really confused now.


Apologies for that.







Then rest your mind with this: if you can afford 2 D5's, get them. You can't go wrong with dual D5's, and as Lucas said there could be some benefit. Even if there was no temperature benefit, you still gain the redundancy and extra pressure, so you can't really lose.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bart*
> 
> Apologies for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then rest your mind with this: if you can afford 2 D5's, get them. You can't go wrong with dual D5's, and as Lucas said there could be some benefit. Even if there was no temperature benefit, you still gain the redundancy and extra pressure, so you can't really lose.


Ok...
But, still i don't know how to calculate things. As much as i appreciate the advice but, i would really really like to be given numbers/equations to calculate









Also
Will the extra pressure cause leaks or water exploding?
And what is the benefit of redundancy?
Finally, will the added pump add more heat to the water?


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Ok...
> But, still i don't know how to calculate things. As much as i appreciate the advice but, i would really really like to be given numbers/equations to calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also
> Will the extra pressure cause leaks or water exploding?
> And what is the benefit of redundancy?
> Finally, will the added pump add more heat to the water?


pump action being rotary will add heat to the water.. not that huge amount though. if you wanna go with dual pump you have two choices either do two separate loops one for cpu and one for GPU or you place them in series. . adding pumps in series if i remember adds more head pressure.. which will not make anything explode. u can set speeds of the pumps to your liking. are you solid on the D5 or you can consider the Mcp50X?


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Ok...
> But, still i don't know how to calculate things. As much as i appreciate the advice but, i would really really like to be given numbers/equations to calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also
> 1) Will the extra pressure cause leaks or water exploding?
> 2) And what is the benefit of redundancy?
> 3) Finally, will the added pump add more heat to the water?


1) No, not even close.








2) If one pump dies, the flow doesn't stop.
3) Yes, but a negligible amount, as Ramzinho said above.

I can't give you any specific numbers since every loop is different.


----------



## FreeElectron

Thanks for the answers.
But, I'd rather wait for others' opinions before i make any decision.
I also want to know more about pump tops and pump + res combos?
Which will be good considering that they will be placed on a desk (Not in a case).


----------



## Bart

You have tons of selection for those. I like Bitspower stuff, but it isn't cheap. They have a nice clear acrylic dual D5 top that you can put a reservoir on. Mine looks like this:

http://s445.photobucket.com/user/Ba...e Labs M8 build/IMG_1389_zps88899bd4.jpg.html

You can't go wrong with Bitspower stuff, but you have lots of other choices (Aquacomputer, EK, etc). Here's a quick window shopping link for D5 tops: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c107/s1805/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-PC_Water_Cooling_Pumps-D5_Pump_Tops-Page1.html


----------



## norman590

Just reading your build Bart. You have 3 x 360mm rads cooling 2 x 7950s and a 3820. LOL is that slightly overkill you reckon?


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *norman590*
> 
> Just reading your build Bart. You have 3 x 360mm rads cooling 2 x 7950s and a 3820. LOL is that slightly overkill you reckon?


Overkill is underrated.







It's not my fault, it's those Case Labs guys. Once you decide a CL cube, you're obligated to stuff it with rads. The good thing is that I'll never need to buy rads ever again.


----------



## Fletcherea

Curious... why is it o.k to use 120mm all in one units on cpu, and now on gpu's with the new adapters out, but a 240 rad isn't enough for a basic cpu/gpu starter loop?
Total noob to custom water, and would like a bit more than a random linus forum link to explain


----------



## BadDad62

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fletcherea*
> 
> Curious... why is it o.k to use 120mm all in one units on cpu, and now on gpu's with the new adapters out, but a 240 rad isn't enough for a basic cpu/gpu starter loop?
> Total noob to custom water, and would like a bit more than a random linus forum link to explain


Hey "Fletcherea" As a guide for Custom loops it's mostly advised to use a 120mm for each block and + another 120mm rad for some extra.

But in real life things are never the same and I used to run my QX9650 @ 4.5 + a GTX260 on one single 120mm Thick rad, as you would imagine temp weren't great but not too hot in the end.


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BadDad62*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fletcherea*
> 
> Curious... why is it o.k to use 120mm all in one units on cpu, and now on gpu's with the new adapters out, but a 240 rad isn't enough for a basic cpu/gpu starter loop?
> Total noob to custom water, and would like a bit more than a random linus forum link to explain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey "Fletcherea" As a guide for Custom loops it's mostly advised to use a 120mm for each block and + another 120mm rad for some extra.
> 
> But in real life things are never the same and I used to run my QX9650 @ 4.5 + a GTX260 on one single 120mm Thick rad, as you would imagine temp weren't great but not too hot in the end.
Click to expand...

This.

Also keep in mind that 120mm AIOs won't outperform a good air cooler. Heck, even most 240 and 280 AIOs are comparable in performance to large top-end air coolers (and air coolers are usually quieter), and the new GPU AIO adapters only watercool the GPU's processor and still use a fan for the vrms etc.

The custom loop 'rule of thumb' of at least 120 of raddage for each block being cooled plus an extra 120 for some room to overclock is useful in that it should put you in the general ballpark that will almost always outperform air cooling. It's purposefully vague though. Things like thicker/better performing rads, faster/better performing fans, having fans on both sides in push-pull, lower ambient temps, etc, can boost cooling performance considerably.


----------



## Jakusonfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fletcherea*
> 
> Curious... why is it o.k to use 120mm all in one units on cpu, and now on gpu's with the new adapters out, but a 240 rad isn't enough for a basic cpu/gpu starter loop?
> Total noob to custom water, and would like a bit more than a random linus forum link to explain


Well its simple, a 240 rad is fine for a starter loop. Anyone says it isn't is misleading you. There is no limit that any rad can cool, they will always dissipate exactly as much energy as is put into the loop. The only thing that varies is how warm they need to be to do it. A 360 rad needs to be roughly 1/3 the temp of a 120 to dissipate the same energy, or a 120 can cool exactly the same as a 360 if 3 times as much air is forced through it.

There are just simple rules of thumb to building a system that runs cool without being very noisy ... They are not hard and fast laws. If a 360 rad would keep your water temp at 10C above ambient then a 240 would keep it about 15C above ambient ... A whole 5C difference. That 5C difference translates pretty directly to 5C warmer CPU/GPU temps.

Drop it again to 120 though and you are looking at 30C above ambient water temps unless fan speed is increased.
Conversely, it would take a whole extra 360 rad to cut another 5C off the single 360 water temp.


----------



## GraveDigger7878

And then you also have noise levels. Some people have lots of rads to make up for the slow and quiet fans that move less air to cool said radiators.


----------



## Fletcherea

preciate the replies fellas. Jakusonfire, that is the exact info my brain wanted, thank you!


----------



## scorpscarx

Is there any special technique for disassembling ek video card blocks, just evenly loosen all the hex screws starting near the center?


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Is there any special technique for disassembling ek video card blocks, just evenly loosen all the hex screws starting near the center?


I just loosen them all first, then go around again removing them fully.


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> I just loosen them all first, then go around again removing them fully.


Thanks, appreciate it







.


----------



## J.M.D

Hey Guys ...

First of all.. Great GUIDE in here... KUDOS to JUGGALO..









Its been a while since i posted something in here at OCN. And i believe this is the right place to post my new concern regarding an h2O setup..

So here I am now looking to water cool my CPU in the Sig-Rig. As of now I have Cooler Master Nepton 280L as well as NZXT Kraken x61 in mind as "AIO" Kit. But to this day i doubt how much of a performance difference it can make compared to my current lapped T.R.U.E 120 if i upgrade to one of
these "AIO" kits ? Or Any one knows even better AIO than those two ?

Or should i go completely with custom solutions like XSPC-Rasa or any alternatives for different brands for different parts like mentioned on this thread by OP ?

So...Calling HELP from the H20 Cooling experts ? Please shed some light to water cool my Sig-Rig .... wink.gif

EDIT :-

After some online research on custom loops , found Swiftech APOGEE Drive-II to be a good choice as the block is integrated with pump as well. But is it good enough if i am expanding the loop suppose if i wanted to add a loop for the GPU as well..???

And i would prefer a 240mm rad (or 280mm with 120mm mountings) with max thickness and then a reservoir which can be mounted on my 5.25 bays, then the tubing's and fittings as well.

So what are the cheap & best choices to complete the loop..? Also the best place to buy all the stuffz ??


----------



## pc-illiterate

cpu only and never plan to add a gpu or 2, keep what you have. those heatsinks are beast. if you want to consider an aio, go with a swiftech h220x, if you want to consider it an aio, so you can add your gpu later.

there is no more rasa as its been replaced by the raystorm. the raystorm d5 is a good kit. the 720/750 raystorm kit is "ok" since they killed the 720 pump and started the 750 kit. still nowhere as good as a d5 kit.

the apogee d2 is good. the pump is basically a 35x on an apogee waterblock.

you wont find a 280 rad with 240 mounts. there is a rad that is kinda that but not quite. its a 420/360 rad. i dont know where you are but its available at
http://www.performance-pcs.com/aquacomputer-airplex-revolution-420-360-g1-4.html they have 1 left
or
http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Aquacomputer-Airplex-Revolution-420360-Radiator_4167.html no idea how many in stock
mind you, these rads are limited to what is available. they are not produced anymore.

no such thing as cheap and best. do you want cheap or good or best?


----------



## J.M.D

Haha of course i want the best but cant spend more as am a little on the budget as of now.

My main intention to go liquid is to get a good difference in the load temp so that i can try OC'ing my CPU/GPU a little more to get again the best out of it.

But if i am planning to go on a custom setup, i also consider future expandability for adding another rad or possibly to add my GFX card too in the loop. Also considering to have a 280 rad at top of the chassis since i have the pre-drilled holes for the tubing on the rear.

Yeah i am over the middle east FYI, so i must consider Int Shipping Sites as prior or should go for 3rd party Int-Ship-Thru sites.

So what do you recommend ?

EDIT :-

I would like to add here that , every review sites these days shows any air/water cooler performance only on intel chips tested that too at 1.2 or a max of 1.3 V core with the results varying in between 60 ~ 70 degrees. So i wonder, how can i compare my setup with today's CPU cooling solutions, when my current cooler maxes out only at 47 ~ 49 degrees[22 Degree ambient] that too @ 1.4875 Vcore. Considering that my CPU also has 4 Cores and even its a 45nano chip. Or is it that intel chips are way hotter compared to AMD ones ?. Can any one shed some light on this ..????


----------



## Kabbi

Nice guide.

I have one question. I just got me a h220 x from swiftech, havent used it yet cause i want to change the tubes and add a gpu. Do i have to empty the rad and the rez and refill? Or is the any other way using quick disconnects? Do i have to add another rad? so many different answers about the adding extra rad.









Thanks in advance and sorry for my english, its not my mother tongue.


----------



## JourneymanMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kabbi*
> 
> Nice guide.
> 
> I have one question. I just got me a h220 x from swiftech, havent used it yet cause i want to change the tubes and add a gpu. Do i have to empty the rad and the rez and refill? Or is the any other way using quick disconnects? Do i have to add another rad? so many different answers about the adding extra rad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance and sorry for my english, its not my mother tongue.


You should try it out first to see how it works on your CPU alone, this will get you more familiar with the unit.

You need to uninstall and the drain the H220X. Reinstall it in order to measure and add tubes to connect it to the other components you are cooling...

The start filling it. Distilled Water and a couple drops of PT Nuke (or some other biocide), or you can get the Swiftech coolant and use that.

Then there's leak testing and the trick of getting the air out of your loop...

There are videos on YouTube on that and expanding Swiftech units...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpum4J6C2k

Good Luck and have fun! You know where to come and get more help when you need it....

Mike


----------



## Kabbi

Thank you so much Mike, really appreciate


----------



## JourneymanMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kabbi*
> 
> Thank you so much Mike, really appreciate


Here's a Club for the Swiftech AIO coolers http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-h320-h220x-h240x-and-cm-glacer-240l-360l-owners-club

I owned two of the H220's when they first came out, then I got the WC fever! I've gone to a full blown Custom Loop! It can be very expensive... I believe I am hooked!


----------



## Kabbi

Thank you Mike. I will probably do a full custom loop in the future. I am a beginner so have to learn and think a aio is a good start


----------



## Freely

I want to throw a XSPC loop on my A10 6800k so I can get higher clocks and, well...cause I want to play around with something. Are there any down sides to this besides the fact it might be a little overkill? Or maybe its not.. i have no idea, which is why i'm asking. Hoping to potentially learn something. Thanks guys


----------



## pc-illiterate

im no longer amd so, are the cooler mounts the same with fm1 and fm2?


----------



## JourneymanMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> im no longer amd so, are the cooler mounts the same with fm1 and fm2?


Yes they are!







In fact all AMD mounts are the same...I think...Pretty sure...But FM1 & FM 2 are the same...


----------



## Freely

Well it says that the AMD bracket is supposed to fit my fm2+ board


----------



## Freely

I was mostly just curious if I'd run into any problem and it its going to allow me to clock a decent amount. Like will it be enough by a long shot or not enough. Just looking to clarify


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freely*
> 
> I was mostly just curious if I'd run into any problem and it its going to allow me to clock a decent amount. Like will it be enough by a long shot or not enough. Just looking to clarify


what are you using to cool now? are you voltage or heat limited?


----------



## Freely

Lol in all honesty I'm rockin stock cooler right now.


----------



## Freely

And I know the easy answer is "anything better than stock is going to be a difference" but just curious how substantial


----------



## Phaster89

a question, assuming i go with acrylic tubing instead of soft tubing and from i gathered from singularity's computers videos, even a 1mm deviation can cause leaks, how do people get their tubing and fittings so amazingly straight and precisely where they need to be?


----------



## DeviousAddict

with one of these http://www.scan.co.uk/products/monsoon-hardline-all-pro-deluxe-bender-kit-13-10mm-id-3-8-od-1-2
and following this guide




That video goes into the measuring of the spaces etc. There are other vids that show the bending and cutting though.


----------



## Yuniver

This is pretty intimidating. Just the thought of going through all this makes my stomach turn.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yuniver*
> 
> This is pretty intimidating. Just the thought of going through all this makes my stomach turn.


Practise makes perfect








Be prepared to sacriy a few feet to "learn" pipe bending

You could practise a bit with cheap pvc electrical conduit pipes, so you get a "feeling" on whats going on before trying with the expensive hardtube.

For metal... same thing, get a few feet of annealed copper plumbing pipe to learn.... or hang out with a plumber a lot


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Freely*
> 
> I was mostly just curious if I'd run into any problem and it its going to allow me to clock a decent amount. Like will it be enough by a long shot or not enough. Just looking to clarify


Better cooling (assuming you dont make mounting errors) sorted below

0-stock cooler

1 to 5 °C below tdp (before thermal throttling or shutdown):
-stock cooler + liquid metal TIM
-stock cooler + lapping
-after market cooler
-after market cooler + lapping

+5°C below tdp
-basic liquid cooling CLC like Corsair, NZXT, etc
-after market cooler + lapping + de & relidding (apparently there are after market air coolers for delidded CPUs, just havent seen them)

5 to 10 °C below tdp
-good liquid cooling "kit" like Swiftech HX 2x0, XSPC, EK, etc
-good liquid cooling "kit" + lapping
-good liquid cooling "kit" + lapping + de & relidding
-good liquid cooling "kit" + de-lidding (needs a special cpu block and or shims - see EK)

+10°C below tdp
-liquid cooling "custom" build
-liquid cooling "custom" build + lapping
-liquid cooling "custom" build + lapping + de & re-lidding
-liquid cooling "custom" build + lapping + de & re-lidding + Silver Waterblock
-liquid cooling "custom" build + de-lidding (needs a special cpu block and or shims - see EK)

+100°C
-exotic : eg Phase Change, Peltiers, unobtanium waterblocks

Note:
dont take the temperatures as being carved in stone.. its just an indicator of what is (easily) achievable








TDP (before thermal throttling or shutdown): at some point the CPU throttles down or shuts down to protect itself. this is either tdp or an arbitrary number below tdp eg tdp -10°C. Use intel or amd specs to find max temp/tdp of your processer.


----------



## pc-illiterate

I dropped 4° going from an h100 to my custom loop. Temps after depend on temps before. Hell I dropped from low or mid 70s to 61° roughly going from a 212+ to the h100.


----------



## eliteage

Looking to do a custom loop..What will I need? How much will it cost? Is it safe/reliable?

-CPU - 5930k
-POSSIBLY will add GPU(s) into loop but for now, just CPU i believe


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliteage*
> 
> Looking to do a custom loop..What will I need? How much will it cost? Is it safe/reliable?
> 
> -CPU - 5930k
> -POSSIBLY will add GPU(s) into loop but for now, just CPU i believe


nothing like not reading anything, not doing any research, not even using the search feature on ocn and lets not even mention that you didnt read any of the thread you just posted in.









no one wants to build your loop for free. do some reading. do some research. then read and research some more.


----------



## eliteage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> nothing like not reading anything, not doing any research, not even using the search feature on ocn and lets not even mention that you didnt read any of the thread you just posted in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no one wants to build your loop for free. do some reading. do some research. then read and research some more.


i actually have been doing research and i did read some of this thread but im not going to tab through and read every post when half of them are people bickering back and forth.... but yeah youre right


----------



## jleslie246

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaster89*
> 
> a question, assuming i go with acrylic tubing instead of soft tubing and from i gathered from singularity's computers videos, even a 1mm deviation can cause leaks, how do people get their tubing and fittings so amazingly straight and precisely where they need to be?


I did mine free hand/eyeball. I did not take a single "measurement" or use any "bending tools". This was my first time (see my profile pics with red coolant). I did end up cracking one bend 12 months later and had to redo that tube. My point is just play around with it. It is easier than you think.


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliteage*
> 
> i actually have been doing research and i did read some of this thread but im not going to tab through and read every post when half of them are people bickering back and forth.... but yeah youre right


everything you need is right here
http://www.overclock.net/t/226970/updated-water-cooling-essential-threads


----------



## Rehmanpa

Hey I'm knew to this, but I'm wondering if an aluminum radiator will work with a copper system? I know that you shouldn't mix metals but will the aluminum radiator work? I mean I think it should because from what it sounds like people use kill coils with copper systems, and they are aluminum I believe so it should work?


----------



## dbudd424

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rehmanpa*
> 
> Hey I'm knew to this, but I'm wondering if an aluminum radiator will work with a copper system? I know that you shouldn't mix metals but will the aluminum radiator work? I mean I think it should because from what it sounds like people use kill coils with copper systems, and they are aluminum I believe so it should work?


You can also mix heavy amounts of anti corrosive liquids in the loop but you always run the risk of bad corrosive issues. Personally I would avoid that. Its a very big pain to pull it all apart and clean and you are running the risk of killing hardware in the process. Copper Radiators are not that much to pick up and worth the extra $$ to save you a possible corrosive nightmare.


----------



## Rehmanpa

Well I was going to use an aluminum radiator. would this cause a major problem?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rehmanpa*
> 
> Well I was going to use an aluminum radiator. would this cause a major problem?


Just



Sooner or later you are gonna run into problems.

An alu rad performs worse as a copper one and because you need a high dose of chemicals (like automotive coolant) which lower the cooling performance, you basically get hit twice... and why? Because an alu rad is 20% cheaper? Just get a decent (brand) copper rad.

PS: "kill coils" are NOT alu.. they are hi-grade sterling SILVER.

.


----------



## donkimizer

I plan on making watercooling loop for CPU (i7 5930k) and GPU (full waterplate on Titan X). But I also plan getting another Titan X. How much of hassle would it be to install watercooling first, then add second Titan X and add it to watercooling loop?
Will two 240mm rads suffice for all those components?


----------



## dbudd424

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donkimizer*
> 
> I plan on making watercooling loop for CPU (i7 5930k) and GPU (full waterplate on Titan X). But I also plan getting another Titan X. How much of hassle would it be to install watercooling first, then add second Titan X and add it to watercooling loop?
> Will two 240mm rads suffice for all those components?


Not to hard. you will just have to drain the system and add extra tubing for the card.

So for the rads it will depend on how fast you want to run your fans on 2x240 rads. Since that is a lot for that amount of rad space the fans will have to run at high rpm. If you wanted to run silent with low rpm fans you would need to up your rad space. Also if you are overclocking that will also increase the need for more rad space. Figure 3x240mm(480+240 If you have room for a 480 rad) rads would give you the rad space needed to run the fans at lower rpm and still keep up if the cpu+gpu are overclocked.


----------



## donkimizer

I definitely prefer silent computing. I have Nanoxia 5B computer case so i can fit 240 mm rad in front and 280mm slim rad on top of case.
I will definitely have CPU overclocked for some 24/7 stable overclock. GPUs I will overclock only if I feel I need to for some multimonitor gaming.


----------



## dbudd424

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donkimizer*
> 
> I definitely prefer silent computing. I have Nanoxia 5B computer case so i can fit 240 mm rad in front and 280mm slim rad on top of case.
> I will definitely have CPU overclocked for some 24/7 stable overclock. GPUs I will overclock only if I feel I need to for some multimonitor gaming.


Well one of your other options,. Is to mount a bigger rad on top outside of the case. I see they have holes for tubing on the top back. Its not really the prettiest thing to do but you could get a bigger rad out there. You also have the option on putting another 120mm on the back fan.

You may have to get creative with it. At my work we have a saying that a hammer fixes all problems but in your case it may be a dremel.


----------



## donkimizer

And how about an option to put fat 240 mm rad on front of the case and put 2 quiet fans on front and 2 on back of that same radiator? Would two of these be completely useless?


----------



## dbudd424

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donkimizer*
> 
> And how about an option to put fat 240 mm rad on front of the case and put 2 quiet fans on front and 2 on back of that same radiator? Would two of these be completely useless?


http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/radiator-round-2015/5/

Give it a read. You will get some more with push/pull. Also if you go the 2x240 route don't cheap out on the fans they will be your best friends in the never ending fight to remove heat out of those rads.


----------



## Rehmanpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Just
> 
> 
> 
> Sooner or later you are gonna run into problems.
> 
> An alu rad performs worse as a copper one and because you need a high dose of chemicals (like automotive coolant) which lower the cooling performance, you basically get hit twice... and why? Because an alu rad is 20% cheaper? Just get a decent (brand) copper rad.
> 
> PS: "kill coils" are NOT alu.. they are hi-grade sterling SILVER.
> 
> .


Well I'm doing something that might be a little bit crazy. I'm going to do a whole room water cooling system. If you've seen the LinusTechTips whole room water cooling series, it's going to be similar because. What I would like to do is use a car radiator I have and have the liquid run through that. It's made of aluminum, so I guess that won't work with the rest of the system?
The only reason I'm doing that is because I want all the heat of these computers outside due to the stupid amounts of heat these computers make.


----------



## -terabyte-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rehmanpa*
> 
> Well I'm doing something that might be a little bit crazy. I'm going to do a whole room water cooling system. If you've seen the LinusTechTips whole room water cooling series, it's going to be similar because. What I would like to do is use a car radiator I have and have the liquid run through that. It's made of aluminum, so I guess that won't work with the rest of the system?
> The only reason I'm doing that is because I want all the heat of these computers outside due to the stupid amounts of heat these computers make.


If you've seen the last episode of his water room cooling series then you should know that it's not worth it. Temperatures barely changed and the amount of work required is simply not worth it. Not to mention you'd have the aluminum problem too.


----------



## Rehmanpa

But remember they used copper piping. That caused most of the heat to release into the air. He said if they hadn't done that it may have been more effective.


----------



## pc-illiterate

kill coils are silver. they still arent recommended by everyone with nickle blocks.
dont use aluminum unless youre going full aluminum loop. theres no point. copper/brass rads are cheap and much safer.

*edit*
responded before i saw there were more pages. need to sleep more and surf less.
you actually watch linus? that cat aint got a clue.


----------



## Rehmanpa

Lol yes I do watch Linus. So what I'm hearing is that an aluminum rad with copper blocks will not work well?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rehmanpa*
> 
> Lol yes I do watch Linus. So what I'm hearing is that an aluminum rad with copper blocks will not work well?


not unless you get gold plated blocks...

It can be done, especially if you plan to use an automotive rad ; then you need (lotsa) automotive cooling fluid ... probably +30% to stave off reactions for as long as possible.

And you could consider adding a sacrificial node inthere, at least it will spare the blocks.
Its not install and forget thou.. you need to check on a regular basis to see if everything is still fine.

Unfortunately, the time of full copper/brass automotive radiators is long gone.

Of course, if you shop around, you might be able to find a full copper/brass/pvc truck radiator.. or a stainless steel racing one. But i suspect you want to use an automotive rad, because its available and cheap.









If cheap doesn't matter, a couple of MO-RA's or SuperNOVA's might be an option however.

MO-RA: http://www.aquatuning.de/water-cooling/radiators/radiators-active/15381/watercool-mo-ra3-360-lt-black?c=591
NOVA: http://www.aquatuning.de/water-cooling/radiators/radiators-active/15007/phobya-g-changer-xtreme-nova-1080-radiator-60mm-full-copper?c=591

The alternative which would work with the automotive rad is getting some nasty alu blocks from China..
or get the cheapest copper blocks you can find and be prepared to throw a few of them away in a year or two and use some run-off-the-mill (garden) hose and/or PEX tubing. In that case make sure you dont get waterblocks with an impingment jetplate, get them as simple as possible. Basically the old school spiral design would work well enough. You wont get the near fantastic temp drops you get from hi-end blocks; but it woudl still work.


----------



## 0493mike

I think if Linus would have insulated the pipes it would have worked better. They sell three foot sections at hardware stores made just for that to prevent freezing in winter. Then the heat would have been more directed to just the radiator. If you look around there are copper car rads, mostly old cars had them. And the heater rads for cars are sometimes copper.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0493mike*
> 
> I think if Linus would have insulated the pipes it would have worked better. They sell three foot sections at hardware stores made just for that to prevent freezing in winter. Then the heat would have been more directed to just the radiator. If you look around there are copper car rads, mostly old cars had them. And the heater rads for cars are sometimes copper.


like this copper/brass MACK Truck radiator ...









http://radiatorgroup.com/239376macktruckradiators.aspx

at 29 x 40 inches and alsmost 2 inches thick i cant even start to image the weight it would be (not to mention when filled up)


----------



## Rehmanpa

That rad is a bit to much money for me RnRollie









Also I had been planning on Distilled water with a kill coil or two, what kind of fluid would I need to use in order to prevent growth/corrosion? Because it seems like the corrosion from the radiator will be a problem or something like that? And I'm trying to basically get the biggest radiator I can because multiple computers will be hooked up to it, so I figured that a car radiator would give better performance than a single 360mm rad and a 240mm rad. What kind of anti corrosives would you suggest?

What is a sacrificial node? I'm really new to this and I am still trying to understand custom loops


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rehmanpa*
> 
> And I'm trying to basically get the biggest radiator I can because multiple computers will be hooked up to it, so I figured that a car radiator would give better performance than a single 360mm rad and a 240mm rad. What kind of anti corrosives would you suggest?


visit an old school junkyard. find a copper radiator in an old car. have it re-cored. you seriously cant do multi pc cooling cheaply and reliably. if you cant afford to do it right, dont even bother.


----------



## Rehmanpa

Good point. If I get it re-cored will that be expensive and will I be able to used distilled water after that or will I still have to use automotive coolant? If I will still have to use automotive coolant then couldn't I just use the aluminum rad I already have?


----------



## pc-illiterate

copper car radiator is built the same as pc cooling radiators. original pc cooling rads were heater cores out of mainly bonneville's because of the size of those cores.
there is a complete set-up in the alternative cooling sub-forum i believe. give me a second and i'll give a few minutes search. if i dont find it in that amount of time, i'll quit look. im too lazy to search n read.


----------



## Rehmanpa

alright thanks dude


----------



## pc-illiterate

this is the thread on the forum i saw. i think this guy ended up going outside bong but he starts off(if its him) with this set-up OUTSIDE in his shed.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?189928-Yes-Another-Car-Radiator-Thread-Major-56K-Warning!

derp sorry i forgot the link, derpin derpa derp...


----------



## Rehmanpa

Thanks for updating it


----------



## Rehmanpa

This is exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks for the link, I'm going to have a bit of reading to do later today


----------



## Rehmanpa

What kind of pump should I use for the system? I'm going to be running two computers off of it so I'm assuming it should be pretty powerful? Or should I have a pump in each system and a pump in the main part of the loop (the part which carries the water to and away from each pc loop)? How many gallons per minute should I put through each computer and what kind of PSI should I be looking for?


----------



## RnRollie

Given that most likely the most restriction in the loop will come from the length of pipe/hose from PCs to central radiator.. i'ld consider using 2 D5's, one for each PC

And if using automotive cooling fluid, you don't need a silver killcoil, the anticorrosive chemicals in the liquid are toxic enough to kill off any possible growth _(and fauna/flora! see why you need to keep the GOOD automotive cooling fluid away from kids & pets)
_

Now, you have to sketch out the situation a bit.. room, size, distances, possible PC location and what is beyond the wall/window. If you are on ground floor overlooking a garden,pond,river,.. there might be alternatives to a big ass radiator.. like geothermal









Also, two PCs , but what are we talking about?
Two superduper machines, like one Workstation with dual xeon processors and 2 quadro cards + one Gaming with 4 980TI's?

You need to work out the total wattage per PC.... Max load/tdp before thermal throttling for CPU and normally about 250 to 275 Watts per GPU.

Or if you want to be lazy, consider the total wattage per PC as the what the PSU can provide _(although in reality you'll never generate the same wattage as the PSU can provide as the PSU would go boom, so you *could* consider a 80% or 90% "load" only)_
So if you have a 1500 Watt PSU in the gaming PC, _(you *could* consider the real load 80% = 1200 Watts)_... ...... 4x or 5x a 120.3 (360) would be more as enough, since a 120.3 (360) can dissipate 300 Watts without a fuzz. _(or 3x or 4x a 360 if using 1200 Watts)_

Ok, reality is a bit more complex, cuz if the air/water delta is high enough, a 360 can dissipate a lot more as 300 watts; but for the sake of simplicity lets work with the idea that ONE 120 rad dissipates 100 Watts. Thus 1500 Watts = 15x 120 or 5x 360 or 3x 480.

Anyways, the bigger the radiator(s), the easier it gets to dissipate the load... in silence.

There are other considerations when using BIG radiators.. the amount of fannage you need. Once it gets to a certain size, "normal" PC fans no longer work.... for a MO-RA (3x 360) you would need 9 or 18 GOOD fans like eLoops or the new Vardars or even go up to industrial fans like Delta & SanAce.

See delta fans in a baffle box example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSllkFWVhJI

For an automotive radiator you MUST go up to industrial fans and/or mains powered BOX fans in push/pull.

Because a car radiator is designed with moving along at a certain minimum speed (= air pressure) in mind.
Which is why the bolted-on radiator fans which force air through the rad when the car is stationairy are so freaking loud.. because they pack a lot of punch.
And if you would want to use the automotive fans which are bolted on the rad... you need a dedicated PSU for that.. and probably not a "spare PC PSU" because these fans draw a lot of Amps. see http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/Performance_Cooling_Products_Brochure_Flyer.pdf

You *can* forfait usage of lotsa good fans.. the "bigger" the rad, the more "passive cooling" you can go; but at higher temps of course.

It can be done, its even relatively easy.. but it needs some thinking through and some tricks and bending of the rules along the way.

And a LOT of reading up









Sacrificial node : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode
Galvanic corrosion (dissimilarity Copper & Alu) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion


----------



## Rehmanpa

Thanks for another amazing response! I'd like to end up with 2 GTX 980 Ti's Classifieds, one in each computer (I'm going to overclock the **** out of it).

And Holy **** Geothermal pc Cooling??? Ok I'm crazy for whole room water cooling but that's literally insane! I'd consider it depending on the cost. It just doesn't seem cost efficient to be honest, I mean you have to dig a 300 foot hole.
Each computer setup (keep in mind these are current setups, not permanent setups and I will be overclocking so the power will increase)
First one:
i7 3820
16gb ram
2 hdd's (1 1tb 1 2tb)
gtx 670ftw sli

Second one:
i7 4790k
32gb ram
1 hdd (1 1tb)
gtx 980

And I haven't finished the second pc yet because the motherboard was DOA, so I'm waiting for a notification that ASUS got my product so they can fix it or give me a new one.
I mean a gtx 980 ti classified with a significant overclock can run 4k right? I mean I'm not currently running 4k, but I'd like to eventually or a dual 2k monitor setup for each pc.

As for fanage I was thinking just running a couple of box fans I had. Since it's outside I don't have to care about noise








I need a PSU for the fans? I can't just plug them into an electrical socket? And yeah I was thinking about bolting them to the radiator or something like that. I actually have a 750w power supply (gold or bronze I can't remember) that can give out close to 60a, I'm assuming that would be enough for that radiator mounted fan you linked me? Would I need 1 or two of those fans?

EDIT: I was planning on using this for the internal loop tubing:
http://www.primochill.com/product/primoflex-advanced-lrt-flexible-tubing/
Then I was going to connect it to PVC insulated piping and use that to carry the water to and from the pc's. so you recommend a D5 pump in each computer? Or in the PVC pipe loop? I was thinking I'd have one big pump in the PVC part of the loop with 1 little pump in each actual computer.

Also could you please explain to me exactly what a reservoir does? I don't really see the point of having one if you perfectly fill up the entire system?



This is what I've designed so far and this is for the new system. I'm trying to go all out fanless. I know if I decide to go with the 980 ti classified (Which I probably will) that I will need a new gpu block. I'm sure this design needs a lot of work, but you can see where the PVC piping to PrimoFlex is.


----------



## RnRollie

Fanless PC
you cant go fanless, there are other parts on a motherboard that heat up, like VRMs; certainly so if you go OC. Some airflow over the MB & VRMs & RAM is highly recommended. But you can use relatively silent fans for that.

Of course you *could* go with RAM & MB & VRM waterblocks... but there are 3 issues with that:
1. Those kind of blocks tend to be restrictive, so you need more pump power.
2. There aren't always blocks available for your MB, so you have to get creative.
3. Some MB come with "hybrid, W/C ready" (VRM) blocks already mounted... most of these are ALUminium, which is a big nono.
_Also, SSD & RAM does *not* need to be watercooled, the only reason to do so is bragging rights







_

Reservoir:
technically its not needed IF you use a T-line








Reservoirs serve following purposes:
-Easier to fill up the loop.
-Acts as an air trap (works best if placed at the highest point in the loop)
-Provides a "reserve" of fluid to compensate for the unavoidable evaporation of fluid, so there is little chance to introduce air (pockets) in the loop.
-Acts as an expansion vat: as the liquid warms up in the loop it expands and if there is nowhere to go, it puts unnecessary strain/pressure on the loop. Liquids can not be compressed! But air can be compressed, so having a bit of air sitting on top of the column of liquid in a tube (for a tube reservoir) it acts as a compressible buffer. And as the liquid "shrinks" when cooling down, the extra reserve avoids air being sucked into the loop.
-when using a HUGE reservoir (gallons), you have a huge thermal buffer (it takes longer for the liquid to heat up and you can do some nifty things like Ryan did with his jugs of frozen distilled)

Those are the reasons i think a reservoir is handy. But again, most of that can be done a T-line also.
There might be other people with (wildly) different reasons/ideas.. lets see if they speak up









Pumps:
Its up to you. But having one pump (unit) for the whole loop means either going Y-splitters or having the PCs "in series"
Having the PCs connected in series is not advisable, since the 2nd PC will get the warmer water from the first, which will limit what you can do with it.
Y-splitters can be cumbersome, since liquid will follow path of least resistance and thus one PC will get more "flow" as the other unless you have _identical_ loops. Now this can be solved by using a (central heating) manifold, where you can regulate the flow for each loop.. but that also requires flow meters in each loop.

If going one pump in the PVC part, and "small" pumps for each PC, that is easier to do with pump/res combo's on the PC end. And that would also counter most of the Y-splitter problems.

There are several ways to do this... You could have each loop include the big rad, thus have the big rad acting as a common reservoir, but that would need 4 PVC pipes running from/to the big rad. and thus one D5 per PC. Or you can use large bore PVC pipe from/to the big rad and (PVC) manifolds near the PCs (like Naja did) and still use a D5 per PC. Because there are no "small" pumps







 The smallest pump you could use in that setup would be an eHeim 300 or 600. Using eHeim submersible pumps would allow you to use a gravity feed variant









There are several possibilities.. all depending on room layout, and available material & skill.









Fans
Well, if you have mains powered box fans around to use on the Big rad.. yes of course DO use them, preferably in push/pull Consider making extra shrouds, so there are no air pressure losses.
In that case you dont need a dedicated PSU for those fans.
Now,.. i've seen the word outside... if placing stuff outside, using mains powered things might not be a good idea.. one stormy night with the wind sweeping the rain almost horizontally into the fans might result in some extra unwanted side-effects. Now, if by outside you mean "in a garden shed on the other side of the wall".. then of course..
















Geothermal & alternatives
Well, its not THAT difficult. It all depends on where you live, the frost line, the soil, ... etc... in most moderate climate countries you can get away with a 3x 3x 3 feet or a 3x 3x 6 feet hole if you use copper coils. And i have a vertical alternative design which can use PVC pipe.
Then again, if you live in a dry, arid climate on top of granite "soil"... i've got an evaporative alternative for you









980TI
Oh yeah, ONE 980TI can run 4k without too much fuzz.








Not with everything like SSAO & Blur and GodRays and AF and other stuff maxed out of course... but nothing can, so... 980 TI is current king of the hill








Besides i have found there is no need to, in most cases the 4k resolution eliminates the need for some of those filtering techniques.

PS: instead of PVC pipe.. you could use PEX (waterline/barrier), unless you are planning to use 1" or 1-1/2" PVC drainpipe (white)

.


----------



## Rehmanpa

Wow. Thanks again for the amazing response!

Do you know what pressure and flow rates should I be running through the system?

Also do you know if there is a waterblock for a Z87 ASUS Maximus VI Extreme? I would really like to go all out fanless here, and if water cooling a mobo does that then so be it. Only thing I wouldn't know how to water cool would be the dang power supply....

Geothermal:
Would it be more cost efficient that this whole room water cooling thing? Would it provide similar or better temps?

If I have a reservoir is it an open system (as apposed to a closed system) so PSI is a non-factor?



I know my Microsoft paint skills are amazing







Anyway I had the idea of just using a single pump like that. is that even practical, or will that just not have enough pressure by the end of the loop? Because I have no idea how much pressure you really need to push water through the radiator.

Also if you didn't mind sharing I'd like to see some of your geothermal designs







I live near Seattle by the way so we get lots of rain here.


----------



## RnRollie

Flow rate
between 0.5 GPM & 2.5 GPM.. but the "golden rule" is to keep flow at 1 to 1.5 GPM for the simple reason that anything above 2GPM doesn't add additional cooling and anything below 0.5 GPM gives you issues with bleeding/purging/filling.

Use Martins pump planning guide for the a better picture of the whole , the numbers are a bit dated, but the principle is sound.

in short: a pump eg D5 gives x feet "head" pressure (in PSI) which is linked to a max flow it can produce
each element in the loop... radiators, blocks, fittings, hoses, introduces restrictions... lowering flow or more correctly: creating a pressure drop.
In the end as long as your pump delivers more "head" as the sum of the restrictions, you've won









https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/pump-planning-guide/
i wish we could convince him to come back from retirement









Full MB block
As far as i know only EKWB has a full MB block for that MB
http://configurator.ekwb.com/

Geothermal
Weeeellll the only difference in "layout" would be using a buried copper coiled pipe in stead of a radiator.
PRO: No fans needed for the radiator, NO radiator needed
CONTRA: at least 10 feet of copper tube doesn't come for free, possibly need 2D5s in series. Using a shovel & spade to displace a few cubic feet of soil makes you aware (the day after) of muscles you didn't know you had









Soil temperatures below the frostline is pretty constant all year round .. somewhere between 12 and 15 °C
Open the coldwater kitchen tap, hold a thermometer in the flowing water.. THAT is in most cases the temp of the ground/soil below the frostline.
You need to lookup where the frostline is in you area, in most moderate climates the frostline at 2-3 feet. The water company tends to ALWAYS bury their pipes below the frostline, because they are not stupid







The data is public, i'll see if i can find a reference/url.
Google = friend







seems front line is 12" , but some say 18".. thats not too bad, thats about two spades deep








http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/cs/groups/pan/@pan/documents/web_informational/s047960.pdf

Now if you happen to have a rainwater collector/pit or a koi pond or an artesian well in the backyard... it can save you some digging









Reservoir:
Well as soon as you put a cap on a bottle its a closed system








Yes, PSI still counts for the simple reason that we are not living in a vacuum.
Since ultimately the amount of liquid doesnt make a difference, a one foot long vertical hose/pipe on a T-line at the top of the radiator can act as a reservoir/balancer.

Paint skills aside, it should work like, if you use a strong enough pump or a pair of pumps in series note: check out Iwaki RD30 specs








I would use a pump per PC.. for the simple reason that it would allow for easy removal and "plug into another radiator" if so needed.

It all depends on the distance between the PCs/Manifolds and the radiator and how you 're gonna bridge that distance....
if you're gonna end up with +50 feet of 1/2" pipe/hose, you're going to have to use something different as a simple aquarium pump, the more distance you want to cover, the bigger the bore needs to be.
see why here:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-loss-steel-pipes-d_307.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/peh-pvc-pipes-pressure-drop-d_317.html

If the radiator is going to be sitting just on the other side of the wall, then you don't need a lot of hope/pipe and you'ld be ok and might even be able to gravity feed/flow the radiator

I'll see if i can find the schematics.. or if i need to sketch them out again .. but they are based on the same principle that "real" domestic vertical pipe geothermal installations use for heating/cooling homes/campuses/... only using "cheap" materials


----------



## Rehmanpa

I'll take a look at some of this stuff later, because again you've written a very detailed and good response. So about 1.5GPM should be good, and none of the blocks will explode (I don't need a lake in my computer) How much pressure can the blocks take before well... blowing up?

Also Will an Acetal + Nickel full Motherboard waterblock work with the rest of my copper waterblocks or will the nickel + acetal be a problem?

I think that the distance between all of this stuff will be less than 20ft. I hear what your saying about a pump per computer, so just move the pump to the actual pc line from the manifold? If that's correct then it would also allow me to add more pc's in the future? and also would that cause there to be too much pressure at the second manifold where the water goes back to the radiator/reservoir, or am I just kind of freaking out a bit?
yeah I had planned on gravity feeding the rad and have some fans going on it, figured that would save me electricity and be just as effective as a pump for it.


----------



## RnRollie

PSI :
most watercooling radiators can take 2 bar (almost 30 PSI) .. i'm not sure about automotive, but since car radiators are designed to work under pressure (because of liquids in excess of 100°C, hence the expansion vat they have) I guess that you would not have to worry about that all









Not ALL watercooling rads can take 2 bar and most blocks & fitting wouldn't like that very much either.

But unless you are planning to use a couple of Iwaki RD30 in series, you'ld be hard pressed (see what I did there?) to get anything above 5 PSI, not with a normal D5. You're well within specs here.

Of course if you plan to introduce some crappy glued PVC joints that fall apart when you look at it, well yeah, THEN you should worry









mixed materials:
Acetal is not an issue.. copper + nickel + alu.. better make sure to add about 30% automotive to the distilled water








Choose an automotive additive with lotsa anti-corrosion properties, not just any "antifreeze". You don't have to worry about freezing here.

build:
just visualise as each PC has its own standalone internal loop. The only difference, the hose which goes from your "last" block back to the pump inlet actually has a QDC sitting in the middle. When connected to itself, you can move the PC freely around, or even "plug-in" a normal 240/360 rad using the QDCs.
When connected to the BIG loop, that hose gets "split" and the QDCs connected to their counterparts which are attached which a (short) length of hose to the manifolds.

manifolds
Either build something yourself , like naja did in his car rad build OR use some "professional Central/Floor heating ones












build redux:
A mere suggestion or two:









Most automotive rads come with several & different fittings/holes. At least two of them will be rather large, in most configurations the is one "big" one at the top and one "big" one at the bottom. Probably something like 1 or 1.2 or maybe even 2 inch dia. Use these








Get some (white) PVC (drainpipe) in the same diameter, it allows you to easy couple this pipe to the radiator using a few short ends of (rubber) automotive radiator hose coupling tying them in place with wormdrives.. just like you see it done under the hood of a car/truck









 

Mount the bottom of the automotive rad about 3 feet off the floor - depending if the bottom outlet is vertical or horizontal. In most cases its horizontal.

run the PVC pipe horizontal (and preferably level or with a slight 2° downward angle) through the wall to where it needs to go.. add the double, triple, quadruple manifold (if gluing, preferably 24 hrs in advance) This is now your feeder pipe FROM the rad.

Mount the second PVC pipe & manifolds about one foot higher as the top of the radiator - horizontally (and preferably level or with a slight 2° downward angle towards the RAD) This is now your return pipe TO the rad.

Before connecting up with the top of the rad (you might need an S bend for that); add in a PVC "T" pointing upwards and have one foot of the same pipe pointing upwards. This will become you fill & balancing pipe & reservoir.

*You rad is now ready for gravity feed operation.







*

Start filling up the radiator slowly as you would any. At some point most of the air will be out of the system and you might even start seeing some ware coming in through the return pipe. Time to put the radiator cap on and continue filling slowly through the vertical balancing pipe.

Continue till it (almost) overflows then its time to start the pumps (not the PCs, only the pumps, use a separate PSU to temporarily plug in the pump if needed or if more convenient)

Since there is more as enough air stil trapped in nooks & crannies, you'll get some spluttering till most of that air is replaced by water.

You may need to top up during this process.

Now let run for 24 hrs, sporadically checking for leaks or if the system needs to be topped up.

The vertical pipe now acts as a reservoir/ air trap. The liquid in this vertical pipe should NOT be overflowing, it should be no more as a few inched above the horizontal pipe. Maybe halfway up.

Now its time to convert this pipe to a balancer : just slide a rubber balloon (or even a condom) over the pipe. This is mainly to prevent dust or nasties from choosing to start a new life in the pipe. At the same time... if the liquid level rises because of thermal expansion.. there is enough room for it. And should the pressure rise a lot (which it wont, but IF), then this is where it goes without being lost (iow it keeps your loop pressurised). And when the level drops because PCs being idle on a cold night (thermal shrinking) there is enough reserve in the balancer to avoid air getting sucked into the loop.

Of course, this is only one possible setup, there ARE other ways of doing it, but this is frankly one of the easiest ways of doing.

PS: yes, Linus did it wrong









NOTE: For those that are going to argue that the D5 pump does have "no suction" and thus it wont work.. it doesn't matter.. we have + 1 gallon of liquid "pushing" at 1 G at the "suction" end. And since the D5 has ~10 feet "head", unless the car rad is 9 feet tall, there should be no issue on that "lifting" front either









Extra note: Need to do some calculations: because of the "gravity feed" nature of this setup, there might be a limit on the number of ports (PCs) on the manifold... but need more exact numbers for that ... ie total volume of water held in the Rad , but from the top of my head, the "weight" of one gallon of water above the bottom manifold should be enough for at least a 5 port manifold....
Especially when using "big-bore" pipe







Where is Archimedes when you need him?


----------



## Jimbags

My biocide is taking a while to get here. How long could I safely operate without it? Is using a Chlorine based one from an aquarium shop, safe for my blocks? Opposed to the normal Copper Sulfate (CuSO4) based ones?


----------



## 0493mike

Im cheap I just got a pond pump from harbor freight. Pretty cheap but has some good pressure. Once I had an extra car fan it was 12v. I dont know if it would run on a computer psu though. Maybe if you had an old extra psu just for the fan. You could even get the rad and fan that goes with it.I dont know just brain storming. After seeing that extreem setup makes me want to try it. Anyways real neat idea, hope it all comes together for you.

Edit Chlorine is not good for any copper, if its dilluted fairly well shouldnt destroy the system right away. I have used small amounts in my other setups for about three weeks once and it didnt ruin it, but it did start corroding the clamps in the res. The biggest problem is if theirs micro channels it might clog them up.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimbags*
> 
> My biocide is taking a while to get here. How long could I safely operate without it? Is using a Chlorine based one from an aquarium shop, safe for my blocks? Opposed to the normal Copper Sulfate (CuSO4) based ones?


How long is a piece of string? It could be days/weeks/months before life develops.
Since you're Down Under where basically everything tries to kill you, it wouldn't surprise me if you had some strain of algea or bacteria that could WALK from Perth to Darwin while strangling roo's ...









I'm not to sure about Chlorine interaction with copper and/or nickel-plated copper.. somebody will chime in about that I guess... but I think its not a good idea

Back in the old days, a few drops IODINE (the non-alcohol based) were an acceptable option.

Of course, you can always keep the drops to a minimum and flush the system again once the biocide arrives.

Alternatively.. go to the local jewellers and talk them out of a chunk of the purest stirling silver they have and rop that somewhere in the loop/res.


----------



## Jimbags

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> How long is a piece of string? It could be days/weeks/months before life develops.
> Since you're Down Under where basically everything tries to kill you, it wouldn't surprise me if you had some strain of algea or bacteria that could WALK from Perth to Darwin while strangling roo's ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not to sure about Chlorine interaction with copper and/or nickel-plated copper.. somebody will chime in about that I guess... but I think its not a good idea
> 
> Back in the old days, a few drops IODINE (the non-alcohol based) were an acceptable option.
> 
> Of course, you can always keep the drops to a minimum and flush the system again once the biocide arrives.
> 
> Alternatively.. go to the local jewellers and talk them out of a chunk of the purest stirling silver they have and rop that somewhere in the loop/res.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0493mike*
> 
> Im cheap I just got a pond pump from harbor freight. Pretty cheap but has some good pressure. Once I had an extra car fan it was 12v. I dont know if it would run on a computer psu though. Maybe if you had an old extra psu just for the fan. You could even get the rad and fan that goes with it.I dont know just brain storming. After seeing that extreem setup makes me want to try it. Anyways real neat idea, hope it all comes together for you.
> 
> Edit Chlorine is not good for any copper, if its dilluted fairly well shouldnt destroy the system right away. I have used small amounts in my other setups for about three weeks once and it didnt ruin it, but it did start corroding the clamps in the res. The biggest problem is if theirs micro channels it might clog them up.


Thanks guys. +REP! Going to avoid chlorine as im sure it will do damage. Might get some liquid iodine from local chemist. Im pretty isolated here so hard to get a hold of things like Copper Sulfate etc


----------



## donmega1

l built my first custom liquid cooling rig 7 years ago with the i7 920. At the time I used distilled water and also placed a pure silver shaving into my loop. I have never had any discoloration or algae grow inside the loop. I used clear tubing and its still clear. I only cleaned the loop once and replaced water 3 times. The point is that if you can get your hands on silver then you never have to worry about anything in your loop.


----------



## RnRollie

Copper & Silver sources near you


----------



## Jimbags

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Copper & Silver sources near you


HAHA I cant just go out and mine it myself, I really wish I could but Government says no :-/


----------



## Rehmanpa

Sorry for the long response time.
So it seems like you recommend about 5 PSI? Would you also be willing to please link me a link to a good D5 pump that you would recommend? preferably something that doesn't cost a bazillion dollars?

So with 30% automotive fluid, I can basically not worry about any corrosion? Could you please be willing to link me to a good thing of antifreeze? Also with antifreeze how often will I have to change the fluid in order to prevent corrosion?

Can I just connect the manifold into the reservoir directly/get a reservoir with prebuilt manifold Or should I get one that connects to the reservoir and branches off from there?

Is doing a gravity feed not the best way to set up the rad/is there a different and better way to do it? I like the idea of having a D5 pump per machine line off of the manifold, but should I also have a pump either between the rad and the reservoir or before the rad?

Also will insulated PVC pipe be the best option long term? I don't want to get into this a few years and find it leaking in places.


----------



## davidm71

Was wondering if its ok to split the outgoing flow from my PMP-500 Koolance pump in half? Sending one half to the gpus and the other half to my cpu block? I am planning on having three radiators one on the bottom of the case (240), one in the front of the case (280), and slim 360 rad up top which has a built in fillport built in to the rad. So would it possible to flow incoming cooled water into its filport from my front rad and at same time flow the water from the gpus into that very same top rad and then feed it to the cpu block ?

Thanks


----------



## pc-illiterate

waste of time to even think about it. 1 continuous loop will work much better.


----------



## davidm71

Yeah but the heat output from block to block would add up?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> waste of time to even think about it. 1 continuous loop will work much better.


----------



## pc-illiterate

no. after the water temperature equalizes through the loop, there will be at most 3*C difference anywhere in the loop.


----------



## davidm71

I read that there will a temp difference from block to block of a couple degrees and that the restriction of one block to the next wouldn't be desirable. Your right though the temps would average but if I'm overclocking I want the lowest possible temp at least on the cpu right?


----------



## pc-illiterate

follow his tubing. 2x mosfets, 2x cpu and 3x gpu and then to rads. it really doesnt matter. loop order does not matter except the res should be right before and above the pump.



open link in new tab will full page the picture, if you didnt already know that.


----------



## davidm71

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> follow his tubing. 2x mosfets, 2x cpu and 3x gpu and then to rads. it really doesnt matter. loop order does not matter except the res should be right before and above the pump.
> 
> 
> 
> open link in new tab will full page the picture, if you didnt already know that.


Wow thats sick. So back to the drawing board. I guess Ill have some returns to make. This is what I have right now. I have a 360 Black ice nemesis gts 30 mm optiflow, with ports to lefy and right for transverse flow up top, (going to return it in favor of a Coolgate 360HD 35mm as the restriction is bad i read), a black ice sr-2 280 in the front, and an Alphacool UT60 240mm on bottom for the gpus. Also got a Koolance pmp500 pump and read it has some pretty good flow rates.

thanks


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## pc-illiterate

the nemesis gts rads are pretty good. the restriction helps it not hurts.
what case are you planning to use?


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## davidm71

Got the Cosmos Galaxy II. Just thought the black ice nemesis gts would slow down the flow rate and hurt cooling through the Heatkiller IV?

thanks


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidm71*
> 
> Got the Cosmos Galaxy II. Just thought the black ice nemesis gts would slow down the flow rate and hurt cooling through the Heatkiller IV?
> 
> thanks


Flow rate is not _directly_ proportional to cooling performance.

It's just got to be flowing fast enough to be turbulent through the blocks. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar-turbulent_transition


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## 0xzz

im planning my first custom loop in a fractal define s and i have two rads i could install in the top: EK-CoolStream SE 360 (Slim Triple) or the Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 420mm.
which one will give me better cooling? yeah the Alphacool is bigger but the EK Coolstream has higher FPI so i dont know which one i should buy...


----------



## Methodical

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> I did mine free hand/eyeball. I did not take a single "measurement" or use any "bending tools". This was my first time (see my profile pics with red coolant). I did end up cracking one bend 12 months later and had to redo that tube. My point is just play around with it. It is easier than you think.


Nice work. Do the hard tubes use a different type of compression fitting than the soft tubes? I think I am going the hard tube route after seeing some of those builds, just looks so much cleaner. I have the cpu and gpu water block and should receive the pump and reservoir next week, then decide which way to go.

Thanks


----------



## jleslie246

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Methodical*
> 
> Nice work. Do the hard tubes use a different type of compression fitting than the soft tubes? I think I am going the hard tube route after seeing some of those builds, just looks so much cleaner. I have the cpu and gpu water block and should receive the pump and reservoir next week, then decide which way to go.
> 
> Thanks


They use an o ring compression connection. I've never had one leak.


----------



## Methodical

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> They use an o ring compression connection. I've never had one leak.


Cool thanks


----------



## donkimizer

Is there anyone or any way (like calculator) to estimate a watercooling efficiency based solely on components getting cooled + number/size of radiators?
I own i7 5930K at 4.1GHZ (H110 corsair cooled) + Titan X (stock cooling). At 28 C room temp and quiet profile CPU is at 48 C. On quiet profile Titan X would run at 66C because of multimonitor setup, but I hold it on less quiet setup (42% fan speed) and its at 56C right now.

I plan getting another Titan X, which will hopefully reduce currently horrible "idle" temp, and i plan to put waterblocks on both of those and connect them all in one loop together with CPU.

I can fit 280mm radiator on front of case and slim 280mm on top. Could anyone predict quiet and full load temps I could get with this setup?


----------



## charliehorse55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donkimizer*
> 
> Is there anyone or any way (like calculator) to estimate a watercooling efficiency based solely on components getting cooled + number/size of radiators?
> I own i7 5930K at 4.1GHZ (H110 corsair cooled) + Titan X (stock cooling). At 28 C room temp and quiet profile CPU is at 48 C. On quiet profile Titan X would run at 66C because of multimonitor setup, but I hold it on less quiet setup (42% fan speed) and its at 56C right now.
> 
> I plan getting another Titan X, which will hopefully reduce currently horrible "idle" temp, and i plan to put waterblocks on both of those and connect them all in one loop together with CPU.
> 
> I can fit 280mm radiator on front of case and slim 280mm on top. Could anyone predict quiet and full load temps I could get with this setup?


You should be able to have a silent system while getting lower idle and load temperatures with custom watercooling.

To calculate this, first estimate the total TDP of your CPU and GPU. This is the total amount of heat that your watercooling system must dissipate. Then, look at the data from this roundup by xtremerigs to find a combination of radiator/fan speed that dissipate at least that much power.

The calculations get a little tricky because the tests I linked are for a single 360mm radiator, while you will have two 280mm radiators. I would divide your total wattage by 1.5 to scale it from 2x280mm to 1x360mm, then look at the data from the review I linked.


----------



## donkimizer

Total tdp for all 3 would be 640 W, which means for 360 mm rad I am looking for 426W of dissipation. Which means I would have to run fans at 1850 RPM with push/pull. Scary.


----------



## charliehorse55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donkimizer*
> 
> Total tdp for all 3 would be 640 W, which means for 360 mm rad I am looking for 426W of dissipation. Which means I would have to run fans at 1850 RPM with push/pull. Scary.


Sorry, I messed up the mental math last night. You should divide the heat load by 1.8:

(280mm * 140mm * 2) / (360mm * 120mm) = 1.815

So that brings you down to 353W. Also, keep in mind nothing bad happens if you go above a 10C delta, it's just used as a common target to aim at for radiator space in a loop. If you have more heat and the delta goes up to say 12C, that just means your CPU/GPU temperatures will be 2C higher. Not a huge issue. Also keep in mind that the TDP heat load only occurs during a stress test, under gaming or other use your power consumption will not be nearly that high.


----------



## 0xzz

What will offer me the best cooling, preferably at lower fan speeds: using two EK-CoolStream PE 360 or using one EK-CoolStream PE 360 and one EK-CoolStream CE 280 (both times in the front with pull and in the top with push) ???

Or in general, what would be the best setup for two rads in a Define S ???


----------



## EthanKing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0xzz*
> 
> What will offer me the best cooling, preferably at lower fan speeds: using two EK-CoolStream PE 360 or using one EK-CoolStream PE 360 and one EK-CoolStream CE 280 (both times in the front with pull and in the top with push) ???
> 
> Or in general, what would be the best setup for two rads in a Define S ???


I have the define s and a coolstream 360 and 240 both 40mm and when test fitting I found that it could be tricky imo to fit two 360s.

Sent from my GT-I8200N using Tapatalk


----------



## 0xzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanKing*
> 
> I have the define s and a coolstream 360 and 240 both 40mm and when test fitting I found that it could be tricky imo to fit two 360s.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8200N using Tapatalk


Yeah, but i already know that i can fit two 360s in there, there is a build log somewhere in this forum where someone did it...


----------



## EthanKing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0xzz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EthanKing*
> 
> I have the define s and a coolstream 360 and 240 both 40mm and when test fitting I found that it could be tricky imo to fit two 360s.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8200N using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but i already know that i can fit two 360s in there, there is a build log somewhere in this forum where someone did it...
Click to expand...

Oh well thats good then









Sent from my GT-I8200N using Tapatalk


----------



## GusManB

Hi

way back in 2011 I rebuilt my old system from air to water cooling.
So I registered here on Overclock.net and came across your Guide.
your Guide was vary helpful and with knowing what to buy and how to install it.

I am at the point now where I a building a new system from my existing setup.
this time i am going to water cool the full mobo, and both of my 4 Ram Dim slots 4 and 4. on am new Mobo.

I am currently using A 4X RAD with CPU and GPU water blacks in one loop.
I have a RES/PUMP Combo using a swiftech MCP35X Pump.

If I am going add 2 more blocks for Memory and another for N/B/SB to the CPU and GPU currently in the loop, how do i know if I would need a more powerful Pump, Go Dual Pump or Dual loop? I have no space for an additional RAD or Replacing the X4RAD with two X2 RADS.

any Help would be appreciated!

you can contact my directly at [email protected]

Thanks!

Gustav


----------



## Ixander

I think you should be ok with one pump


----------



## pc-illiterate

water cooling ram is a waste of money and pump power. are you still using that old thermaltake armour? if you are, buy a better case and wait to upgrade your gpu. $200-300 for a new case is money better spent than buying a new gpu of new tech. the video cards will be much better this summer.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I was looking at cheaper cases to house a bunch of big rads, and all I really found was the thermaltake cube x9, are there any other cases for sub 200 pricetag that offer similar rad mounting options as the x9, it can fir 2x480mm out of the box.


----------



## GusManB

I went a head and ordered this Case http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16811854002

It was recommended based on my components so I will try this one.
I like this one because it hides the PSU, has plenty of RAD Room, and water cooling friendly


----------



## RnRollie

The Phanteks Primo eh... good choice.
Mind, it is a BIG case, and could do with some wheels








But if you visited the Phanteks Owners group, you know that already


----------



## gree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charliehorse55*
> 
> You should be able to have a silent system while getting lower idle and load temperatures with custom watercooling.
> 
> To calculate this, first estimate the total TDP of your CPU and GPU. This is the total amount of heat that your watercooling system must dissipate. Then, look at the data from this roundup by xtremerigs to find a combination of radiator/fan speed that dissipate at least that much power. .


What if I need to run pull only? Which chart can I use

And the faq page says my 5939k uses 140 and my 980ti uses 250 so. 390 before over clicking?

Background info I need a single 360 slim radiator
Max dimension I can fit including fans is (W)400mm (D)132mm (H)60mm

Was recommended the HWLabs Nemesis

This is the gpu block I just ordered
http://www.bitspower.com.tw/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=173_268_270_277&products_id=3998

Plan on using crystal link and probably an ek block for the cpu


----------



## 0xzz

can i re-use tubing once i pull it off of a compression fitting or do i have to cut the part that was on the fitting?


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0xzz*
> 
> can i re-use tubing once i pull it off of a compression fitting or do i have to cut the part that was on the fitting?


Yep. In fact, it will go on easier the second time, and still fits tight enough. No worries there.


----------



## 0xzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bart*
> 
> Yep. In fact, it will go on easier the second time, and still fits tight enough. No worries there.


ok i thought once it stretches onto a fitting it will never seal perfectly once removed


----------



## Bart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0xzz*
> 
> ok i thought once it stretches onto a fitting it will never seal perfectly once removed


Nah, it seals just fine. At least it does with my 3/8 5/8 Primochill tube. That stuff fits tight.


----------



## 0xzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bart*
> 
> Nah, it seals just fine. At least it does with my 3/8 5/8 Primochill tube. That stuff fits tight.


i got 7/16 5/8 primochill advanced LRT so yeah it fits so good it was a real pain getting it on there, especially on my gpu, even after putting it in warm water first...


----------



## Gr8Llama

Hi guys. A lot of great info that I still need to go through here. Heh. I have a question I hope someone here can help with. Currently I have a closed loop water cooled system. I bought the Gigabyte WaterForce Xtreme 980 Ti that comes with a 120mm radiator and fan. I have a separate 240mm radiator with two fans for the CPU. Currently the system works awesomely and keeps things nice and cool. However I bought the Thermaltake Core P5 case as I wanted to eventually move to an open loop cooling system once I had learned more about it. The issue is that my closed loop system will not fit in this case as there is simply no way to mount the CPU radiator anywhere. Tubing is too short, etc, etc. So I'm pushing ahead with the open loop system, but my question has to do with the Waterforce card.

I originally got a watercooled GPU because I figured I could use the already existing water block on the card and just connect it to the open system. I am finding indications that this is not so easy to do because there is a compressor on the card already since it's closed loop. Is this the case? Did I buy an AIO GPU only to not be able to use it in my open loop system? I can easily take off the front cover, but didn't want to do more until I have my other cooling solution in place. Should I send this card back and get an air cooled card instead to do the open loop with?

Appreciate any knowledge you guys can throw my way. I'm not a noob to PC building, but a complete noob to water cooling. Thus being at the noob thread. Hehe. Thanks in advance.

Gr8Llama


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gr8Llama*
> 
> Did I buy an AIO GPU only to not be able to use it in my open loop system?


All-in-one means just that. Very rarely are such things expandable; for reasons of cost, reliability, support and warranty.

On that card, the pump is indeed combined with the GPU cooling plate, that's normal for AIOs. You could cut the tubing to extend the loop - companies like Bitspower have a selection of fittings that could fit that narrow tubing. However, any modifications like that and you would void your warranty on the GPU. Better to choose a solution that's intended for custom loop, like the Asus Poseidon, which has proper G1/4" threads for fittings.

Or if you do return the card for an air cooled model, get an EVGA. The reason is that EVGA doesn't void the warranty if you replace the GPU heatsink with a water cooling solution.


----------



## Gr8Llama

WiSK, thanks for the reply, I appreciate the information. Apparently I should have done more research. So do you know is it possible to take off the water block that came with the card and replace it with one made for Gigabyte's other cards? I understand that it will likely void the warranty but is that a possibility? If it is I may go that route, but I'll have to check the warranty and weigh the pros and cons. I found out that I couldn't send the card back. I suppose I could sell it and get another one, but I may just stay AIO for now, wait for warranties to run out and go from there. Thanks again and in advance for any further info you can offer!

Gr8llama


----------



## pc-illiterate

ek makes a block specifically for that card. use this https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/step1_complist


----------



## orky87

Can't decide between these two layouts... so A (Top) or B (Bottom) ?


----------



## pc-illiterate

if you use that top rad as exhaust, youre going to make it nothing more than a big ol tube. heat coming from that big old rad in the front is going to go right into that top rad.


----------



## orky87

Yeah, I'm aware of the inefficiency this approach has but I'm working with what I have atm. In any case additional fans can be added to either the side panel, rear exhaust in reverse or at the bottom near PSU for additional cooler air. Running the top rad in reverse is also an option with the mentioned fan option as exhaust.

But my question was more in regards to the fluid dynamics and pump's optimal workload considering A & B layouts. We have gravity as well as flow variation between blocks and rads so I'm just curious to know yet couldn't find any info touching on this.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orky87*
> 
> But my question was more in regards to the fluid dynamics and pump's optimal workload considering A & B layouts. We have gravity as well as flow variation between blocks and rads so I'm just curious to know yet couldn't find any info touching on this.


Really no measurable difference of "optimal workload" for pump between A&B. Ignore gravity and even ignore most right-angle-turns for such a simple loop.

What is important in a more practical way: how are you going to drain it with the front radiator that way up?


----------



## Remontoire

Hi I think I hhave just about got my head around this wc stuff. Before I spend £400 can someone just confirm that this is everyting I need and all these parts will work/fit together?







Thanks.


----------



## WiSK

@Remontoire Quick glance it all looks fine. I personally prefer 10/16 tubing with monsoon fittings, for the chunkier look.

Alphacool "Pure Water" is a rip off. You can get a whole gallon of deionised water (Battery Top-Up Water) at Halfords for less. The important thing is not to use tap water for long-term use, but flushing is fine from the tap: you remove much more unwanted stuff from the flowing water than is likely to be deposited.


----------



## Bride

what do you think about a loop as this one: wtank - pump - CPU - rad1 - GPU - rad2 - wtank. Can be useful in terms of temp spikes control between a wblock and another? tks﻿


----------

