# [WCCFtech] AMD Launches a Mysterious Countdown Timer for a Possible New Architecture, GPU or Product



## Shiftstealth

If its a 16 core steamroller i might have to buy it.


----------



## EniGma1987

K12 announcement?


----------



## flyin15sec

Maybe it's finally the A8-7600 ?!!

kidding aside, nice teaser.


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> If its a 16 core steamroller i might have to buy it.


couldn't quite count but are you referring to the orb? That would be nice , but I don't know what i would do with it


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ladcrooks*
> 
> couldn't quite count but are you referring to the orb? That would be nice , but I don't know what i would do with it


I dont understand.

If it were 16 cores i could use it for VM's


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> I dont understand.
> 
> If it were 16 cores i could use it for VM's


He meant the picture of the sphere and the number of surfaces it has to be a teaser of core count.
I myself doubt it as it would mean far more than 16 cores.


----------



## Newbie2009

I think they said you wouldn't see the FX branding for a few years.


----------



## BradleyW

Clearly this is a new CPU on a high end socket!


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> Clearly this is a new CPU on a high end socket!


I hope so, i was looking at a 5820K. I hope this gives me a reason to go AMD.


----------



## cam51037

I found this in the source code:

$(this).parent().html('
*AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
Welcome to Earth*
');

So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting. I got the FX part from the picture of the balloon, with the FX logo on it.


----------



## szeged

Probably something stupid that amd thinks will be amazing unfortunately they will be the only ones.

Wheres that option?


----------



## mk16

if the pics are to be believed then yes, its something to do with cpus. they better have something real to show and not just a paper with what they think it can do. I WANT BACK ON TEAM RED!


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cam51037*
> 
> I found this in the source code:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
> ');
> 
> So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting.


Nice find....Sigh. 5820K it is.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cam51037*
> 
> I found this in the source code:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
> ');
> 
> So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting. I got the FX part from the picture of the balloon, with the FX logo on it.


Ha, way to give away the game in the source code.

AMD needs to take lessons from Blizzard on teasing.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Ha, way to give away the game in the source code.
> 
> AMD needs to take lessons from Blizzard on teasing.


Right?

This is probably the 4 Core 2 module excavator architecture apu.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I think they said you wouldn't see the FX branding for a few years.


Yeah, it wont be coming down to earth for a couple years


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Ha, way to give away the game in the source code.
> 
> AMD needs to take lessons from Blizzard on teasing.


what if that was their plan all along, let us find something like this only to go and release something else


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> what if that was their plan all along, let us find something like this only to go and release something else


AMD isn't that slick.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> what if that was their plan all along, let us find something like this only to go and release something else


You really think AMD is that slick?

I'd believe it if it were Blizzard, but not many other companies.

Edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> AMD isn't that slick.


CURSE YOU NINJA


----------



## t00sl0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Probably something stupid that amd thinks will be amazing unfortunately they will be the only ones.
> 
> Wheres that option?


trueaudio is that option, haha.


----------



## Alatar

http://www.tweakpc.de/forum/news/96552-countdown-laeuft-amd-will-hoch-hinaus.html


----------



## dkizzy

Prob a new APU but I had to vote for FX on a new socket!


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tweakpc.de/forum/news/96552-countdown-laeuft-amd-will-hoch-hinaus.html


Yeah it is already in the first post









Still FX can mean a variety of things however that scrounging of the site's code yielded some insight on it being an APU. I hope it will live up to the hype.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Probably just the top kaveri mobile APU that supports up to 2133Mhz DDR3 which is expected to carry the FX moniker.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Probably just the top kaveri mobile APU that supports up to 2133Mhz DDR3 which is expected to carry the FX moniker.


Would be really stupid to create an event like this for a product like that.

Then again you never know... It probably is an APU but man I hope they're actually doing something interesting with it due to the marketing campaign.


----------



## NuclearPeace

6 core steamroller, 512 ALU GPU or bigger please.


----------



## Waltibaba

One guy on that tweakpc thread is speculating it might be a graphene part.

They have a relevant patent (for 3d electronics) here: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/

Also the truncated icosahedron (soccer ball shape) in the picture is called a Buckminsterfullerene if made entirely from carbon atoms into a molecule, and is one basic stable 3D shape that it can take (beside various tubes and icosahedral structures).
Of course graphene is theoretically a flat carbon structure of single atom thickness, so this isn't technically graphene...

Seems pretty far out but not impossible, it might be a first prototype or tech demo. Also this definitely would satisfy the "so far ahead of its time" claim IMHO.


----------



## Alatar

If it's anything different from current APUs my money would be on HBM.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Would be really stupid to create an event like this for a product like that.
> 
> Then again you never know... It probably is an APU but man I hope they're actually doing something interesting with it due to the marketing campaign.


AMD needs to market however they can to sell their current CPU's and APU's that aren't up to snuff. Why is their "APU" different from intels built in 4600 HD. Can't that be accessed through HSA too?

My thoughts for an APU to be useful now it would have to be Quad channel DDR4 Memory. That would help out the major downfall of APU's imo.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dkizzy*
> 
> Prob a new APU but I had to vote for FX on a new socket!


Not going to happen, but I voted that way as well. It's an APU, but I 'wish voted.'


----------



## LordOfTots

If it's indeed an APU like evidence suggests, I hope it's at least a 3 module part, or has some insane amount of GCN cores.


----------



## Offler

Golden age of balooning !

Sorry... Well. I would like to remain bit more conservative. Grafen chip? Ok... maybe... What about chips with similar memory controller as in PS4? But its not as much ahead of time...


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waltibaba*
> 
> One guy on that tweakpc thread is speculating it might be a graphene part.


lol. Ya because AMD's engineering and R&D team will definitely put one out before Intel is able to...


----------



## dkizzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> AMD needs to market however they can to sell their current CPU's and APU's that aren't up to snuff. Why is their "APU" different from intels built in 4600 HD. Can't that be accessed through HSA too?
> 
> My thoughts for an APU to be useful now it would have to be Quad channel DDR4 Memory. That would help out the major downfall of APU's imo.


I don't think a 4600 can use HSA. Would anyone like to verify?


----------



## BinaryDemon

It would be cool if AMD released an APU that was nearly identical spec'd to the part currently available in consoles for either FM2+ or AM1.


----------



## sugarhell

Excavator APU with HBM? I hope so


----------



## Nutty Pumpkin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> It would be cool if AMD released an APU that was nearly identical spec'd to the part currently available in consoles for either FM2+ or AM1.


Homemade consoles?


----------



## Seronx

It is probably the FX-7600P SV and FX-7500 ULV APUs. They aren't beefed up either so it is just poor marketing. You can't overclock them so what is the point of calling them FX.


----------



## Artikbot

Unless it's Steamroller on a new socket, not interested.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Unless it's Steamroller on a new socket, not interested.


This


----------



## Stormscion

FX APU

CPU
8 core steamroller arch

GPU
16 compute units hawai arch based

MC
quad channel memory u tp 2133 mhz

TDP
150w


----------



## Evil Penguin

Fingers crossed for a 20nm fabbed APU.


----------



## Darkstalker420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stormscion*
> 
> FX APU
> 
> CPU
> 8 core steamroller arch
> 
> GPU
> 16 compute units hawai arch based
> 
> MC
> quad channel memory u tp 2133 mhz
> 
> TDP
> 150w


I so want it to be ^ But i think i will be disappointedd

A 6 core would be good even. with a decent chunk 'o compute units.

Thanx.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> It would be cool if AMD released an APU that was nearly identical spec'd to the part currently available in consoles for either FM2+ or AM1.


Would have to be FM2+ in that case as there are no boards AM1 with strong enough power phases to provide power to such a chip.
150W territory you know
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> It is probably the FX-7600P SV and FX-7500 ULV APUs. They aren't beefed up either so it is just poor marketing. You can't overclock them so what is the point of calling them FX.


I don't see how it could be called ahead if it is a part that was on the desktop for half a year and I don't think it would qualify as ground breaking either.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stormscion*
> 
> FX APU
> 
> CPU
> 8 core steamroller arch
> 
> GPU
> 16 compute units hawai arch based
> 
> MC
> quad channel memory u tp 2133 mhz
> 
> TDP
> 150w


Would be a very big die 200 mm^2 for the gpu potion then 120 for the cores and 100 for the uncore a 420mm^2 die is certainly doable but it would be a 400 dollar product.


----------



## maarten12100

dp


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cam51037*
> 
> I found this in the source code:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
> ');
> 
> So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting. I got the FX part from the picture of the balloon, with the FX logo on it.


Nice find !

Lokks like Carrizo stuff to me.


----------



## Vaub

Some laptop APU now have the FX branding, so my guess is on this


----------



## nitrubbb

subbing


----------



## PiOfPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waltibaba*
> 
> One guy on that tweakpc thread is speculating it might be a graphene part.
> 
> They have a relevant patent (for 3d electronics) here: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/
> 
> Also the truncated icosahedron (soccer ball shape) in the picture is called a Buckminsterfullerene if made entirely from carbon atoms into a molecule, and is one basic stable 3D shape that it can take (beside various tubes and icosahedral structures).
> Of course graphene is theoretically a flat carbon structure of single atom thickness, so this isn't technically graphene...
> 
> Seems pretty far out but not impossible, it might be a first prototype or tech demo. Also this definitely would satisfy the "so far ahead of its time" claim IMHO.


Good find. If this were true, it would actually be worth the hype.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Ha, way to give away the game in the source code.
> 
> *AMD needs to take lessons from Blizzard on teasing*.


Let's see which studio AMD is taking example from:
A- Tease "fullerene at the edge of space",
B- Tease "so far ahead of its time",
C- Compare event impact with the Earth timeline.
It is Westwood's Tiberian Sun. They are doing a pretty damn good remake of it.
I wonder, if "The technology of peace" will be the next marketting slogan.
Enough kidding: they are going to display Kaveri v2 with 1024 shaders & 8 cores.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> If its a 16 core steamroller i might have to buy it.


Doubtful. The 16-core Bulldozer and Piledriver chips for G34 servers are actually a pair of four module dies on the same chip. G34 is a pretty big socket. That said, I think Kaveri has the die space to accept a six or at least five module CPU, but AMD is pushing for HSA, and a performance chip without HSA support isn't likely for now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cam51037*
> 
> I found this in the source code:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
> ');
> 
> So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting. I got the FX part from the picture of the balloon, with the FX logo on it.










NO! THAT SHOULD BE SERVER-SIDE! Okay, that's six days of speculation simplified. We know there's the FX logo and we know it's an APU. Some of the OEM APUs labeled FX aren't actually that good. I don't know why they put their performance label on crappy SKUs, but whatever. There was a listing of OEM Kaveri chips. If anybody can find it, that would be excellent.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> This is probably the 4 Core 2 module excavator architecture apu.


Excavator announcement would be nice, but it's a little early I think. Kaveri hit the shelves just four and a half months ago after all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> It would be cool if AMD released an APU that was nearly identical spec'd to the part currently available in consoles for either FM2+ or AM1.


Hmm... I'm not sure how feasible that is. The PS4 is running an 18 compute unit GPU, the Xbone is running a 12 compute unit GPU, and both have octacore Jaguar chips. I don't think they can do that without a new socket. FM2+ support chips that, as of now, have 12 CUs total, with Kaveri having 4 CPU and 8 GPU. Maybe they could squeeze a quad-core version of the Xbone's APU, but I doubt it. No way they'll cram the PS4's GPU at all. Jaguar cores are extremely small, so there might be some hope. Just remember that, unless it supports dual (or quad







) channel DDR3, the GPU performance will suffer.


----------



## tafkar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*


This image makes me wonder if it has something to do with using some sort of fullerene-enhanced SOI process or something.


----------



## Phaethon666

My vote would be that its a hybrid APU with both ARM and x86s. The only reason why I say this is simply, because "It's so far ahead of its time..." that no software on the consumer level can use it.


----------



## andyboy

If AMD disappoint this round, I think it will just show how far behind they are.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> AMD needs to market however they can to sell their current CPU's and APU's that aren't up to snuff. *Why is their "APU" different from intels built in 4600 HD. Can't that be accessed through HSA too?*
> 
> My thoughts for an APU to be useful now it would have to be Quad channel DDR4 Memory. That would help out the major downfall of APU's imo.


AMD is the only company pursuing true cpu-gpu integration, the next step down their pathway is "context switching" between the two for the very first time. They could launch a surprise campaign in their technology future and announce their chips will exclusively utilise 3D stacked DDR4 from now on, but highly unlikely.


----------



## PiOfPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaethon666*
> 
> My vote would be that its a hybrid APU with both ARM and x86s. The only reason why I say this is simply, because "It's so far ahead of its time..." that no software on the consumer level can use it.


Skybridge (the hybrid x86/ARM chip) is due out next year. Early tech demo?

EDIT: As I recall, Lisa Su demoed Kaveri at Computex before it came out last year, so there's precedent, at least.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Ninja'd! That might be it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaethon666*
> 
> My vote would be that its a hybrid APU with both ARM and x86s. The only reason why I say this is simply, because "It's so far ahead of its time..." that no software on the consumer level can use it.


They have announced desktop ARM chips. I forgot the story's details, but they would be SoCs that fit in the same socket as a new low-power x86 chips (e.g. Beema or Mullins). Whether or not it's possible to switch between ARM and x86 on the same motherboard remains to be seen, but it's likely that some manufacturer will allow it if it is possible to do so.


----------



## bojinglebells

really don't know why people _want_ this to be a new AMD CPU, they're just too far behind for this to actually live up to any hype if its just CPU.

Now an APU with something like HBM would be a major game changer (literally and figuratively) as it would mean AMD could produce an APU that could compete with midrange GPUs, so why spend money on an i5 plus a mirange dGPU when you can just grab an AMD APU for half the price of the Intel+dGPU combo.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> they are going to display Kaveri v2 with 1024 shaders & 8 cores.


The Kaveri Refresh is most likely only going to be two CPU CUs with sixteen GPU CUs. While there is a chance to get one with three CPU CUs with twenty-four GPU CUs.

49125_15h_Models_30h-3Fh_BKDG.pdf 3313k .pdf file


Under: *1.5 Changes Between Revisions and Product Variations*
Quote:


> 2 or 3 core-pairs Add 3 CU support.


----------



## Olivon

I just hope the balloon won't be shoot down before the start of the event


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> really don't know why people _want_ this to be a new AMD CPU, they're just too far behind for this to actually live up to any hype if its just CPU.


That's exactly it, they want them to not be that far behind.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andyboy*
> 
> If AMD disappoint this round, I think it will just show how far behind they are.


They are only far behind in single core performance and they have Jimm on it to fix that. Far behind is not the right word for something that may very well be fixed in 1,5 year from now. But as always we have to see.


----------



## Valor958

And here I was hoping for a reason to go back to AMD, silly me, I should know better


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> *really don't know why people want this to be a new AMD CPU, they're just too far behind for this to actually live up to any hype if its just CPU.*
> 
> Now an APU with something like HBM would be a major game changer (literally and figuratively) as it would mean AMD could produce an APU that could compete with midrange GPUs, so why spend money on an i5 plus a mirange dGPU when you can just grab an AMD APU for half the price of the Intel+dGPU combo.


Because competition is win win, and some of us love to OC on the FX platform







but obviously, it's an APU. Hopefully not something boring.


----------



## erocker

Well.. from the picture, it's obviously something to do with AMD's FX line.


----------



## mtcn77

It would be hilarious if they remade the Nod ending sequence where Kane launches world altering tiberium missile and just as the bomb emits that green radiance the screen zooms in on the fullerene and pop comes out AMD within.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> They are only far behind in single core performance and they have Jimm on it to fix that. Far behind is not the right word for something that may very well be fixed in 1,5 year from now. But as always we have to see.


I'd say the bigger problem is that Bulldozer is still being refined, now as Excavator. Look at a Bulldozer module and then at Steamroller. So many things that were one-per-module in Bulldozer are now one-per-core in Steamroller. Excavator is going to be very similar to a traditional core design, but with a shared FPU.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LordOfTots*
> 
> Because competition is win win, and some of us love to OC on the FX platform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but obviously, it's an APU. Hopefully not something boring.


Yes, yes, and I don't know, respectively. On one hand, they're hyping this, so it sounds like it'll be good. On the other hand, it's AMD marketing, and we all know how good that is.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'd say the bigger problem is that Bulldozer is still being refined, now as Excavator. Look at a Bulldozer module and then at Steamroller. So many things that were one-per-module in Bulldozer are now one-per-core in Steamroller. Excavator is going to be very similar to a traditional core design, but with a shared FPU.
> Yes, yes, and I don't know, respectively. On one hand, they're hyping this, so it sounds like it'll be good. On the other hand, it's AMD marketing, and we all know how good that is.


I think Excavator has already been finished probably for over half a year already it may or may not have actually influence from Keller we don't really know however Keller's task now it to work on the arch after Excavator.


----------



## F3ERS 2 ASH3S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> Let's see which studio AMD is taking example from:
> A- Tease "fullerene at the edge of space",
> B- Tease "so far ahead of its time",
> C- Compare event impact with the Earth timeline.
> It is Westwood's Tiberian Sun. They are doing a pretty damn good remake of it.
> I wonder, if "The technology of peace" will be the next marketting slogan.
> Enough kidding: they are going to display Kaveri v2 with 1024 shaders & 8 cores.


^ that made me giggle I thought I was the only one that loved that game
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiOfPie*
> 
> Skybridge (the hybrid x86/ARM chip) is due out next year. Early tech demo?
> 
> EDIT: As I recall, Lisa Su demoed Kaveri at Computex before it came out last year, so there's precedent, at least.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> really don't know why people _want_ this to be a new AMD CPU, they're just too far behind for this to actually live up to any hype if its just CPU.
> 
> Now an APU with something like HBM would be a major game changer (literally and figuratively) as it would mean AMD could produce an APU that could compete with midrange GPUs, so why spend money on an i5 plus a mirange dGPU when you can just grab an AMD APU for half the price of the Intel+dGPU combo.


AMD is focusing on APUs and that will be what the standard is, technically half the skus for intel are apus just not branded that way.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I think Excavator has already been finished probably for over half a year already it may or may not have actually influence from Keller we don't really know however Keller's task now it to work on the arch after Excavator.


I am not sure on finished or if they are they are prepping the engineering samples. That would be a great thing.. but I don't think that it is going to be. Now if that was Keller, may have had some tweaks in it but I don't think that is what his target will be.....


----------



## Hms1193

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiOfPie*
> 
> Skybridge (the hybrid x86/ARM chip) is due out next year. Early tech demo?
> 
> EDIT: As I recall, Lisa Su demoed Kaveri at Computex before it came out last year, so there's precedent, at least.


Skybridge is not a chip (x86/ARM), its a name of a platform which makes both ARM and x86 SOCs pin-to-pin compatible. Its a unified northbridge/southbridge = Skybridge which accepts both AMD x86 and AMD ARM class processors on server platforms.

The teaser is for AMD's Mobility Kaveri APUs, they had slides for 'The Most Advanced APU Ever" as seen in the chrome "Inspect Element" page displayed during Kaveri and the recent APU '14 event in China.



and before anyone else says that FX =/= APU. Then take a second look at the leaked Mobile Kaveri specifications that were seen on AMD's webpage.

The top most high-performance notebook SOCs are called FX-7600 and FX-7500.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hms1193*
> 
> The teaser is for AMD's Mobility Kaveri APUs, they had slides for 'The Most Advanced APU Ever" as seen in the chrome "Inspect Element" page displayed during Kaveri and the recent APU '14 event in China.
> 
> 
> 
> and before anyone else says that FX =/= APU. Then take a second look at the leaked Mobile Kaveri specifications that were seen on AMD's webpage.
> 
> The top most high-performance notebook SOCs are called FX-7600 and FX-7500.


Well I guess you don't know that but if it is it is a super fail by AMD's marketing as that info has been out for months. Also what is advanced about a part that is the same as a 6 month old part.

If is the case the laptop kaveri's should at least have the GDDR5 controller working and in use otherwise failure is all there is to it.
On a side note HP will be launching an ultra portable 12,5 inch notebook featuring a Kaveri proc, SSD and a FHD screen(optional) along with a 6 cell battery. With a mass of around 1,5 kg


----------



## rycust

I saw this on WCCFtech:


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

They're revealing laptop Kaveri. Anybody want to make a bet?


----------



## Rickles

if the universe is expanding could we argue that the edge of space hasn't even reached the edge of space?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> if the universe is expanding could we argue that the edge of space hasn't even reached the edge of space?


No because space is defined as a place where there are very little atoms/molecules an almost vacuum situation. But the way of wording it better would be beyond the edge of the atmosphere I agree on that.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Marketing like this would only be fitting if they were releasing a graphene processor...


----------



## Rickles

would we say that outside of the edge of space is more space or empty space?


----------



## om3nz

This is what will show up in the end of the countdown here.


----------



## kzone75

Old but relevant, I think: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/
And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Old but relevant, I think: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/
> And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene


Nice. That would be really good if its true


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Old but relevant, I think: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/
> And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene


So it is for sure fullerene in the picture, but is it in the APU?

If it is this might be a day one purchase.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Old but relevant, I think: http://www.graphenetracker.com/amd-patents-graphene-for-3d-electronics/
> And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene
> 
> 
> 
> So it is for sure fullerene in the picture, but is it in the APU?
> 
> If it is this might be a day one purchase.
Click to expand...

If we go by the source code posted earlier, then I believe it's in the APU. However, this is only what I think.


----------



## fateswarm

We can't just affect elections like that by telling voters what will happen







Anyway, you're probably right. Until I see independent benchmarks showing them beating Intel, they are dead.

Unless it's a 16nm CPU or GPU very soon.

Unlikely.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> If we go by the source code posted earlier, then I believe it's in the APU. However, this is only what I think.


Sounds too good to be true is all.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> If we go by the source code posted earlier, then I believe it's in the APU. However, this is only what I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds too good to be true is all.
Click to expand...

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## Alatar

AMD isn't going to suddenly pull some graphene APUs out of nowhere with a $300M R&D budget and with no fabs at all...


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> AMD isn't going to suddenly pull some graphene APUs out of nowhere with a $300M R&D budget and with no fabs at all...


Right? Thats what i'm thinking.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> AMD isn't going to suddenly pull some graphene APUs out of nowhere with a $300M R&D budget and with no fabs at all...


AMD is certainly worth more than its r&d budget. IBM has already demonstrated a working prototype and key partners such as Samsung and Global Foundries are in cooperation with AMD to deliver on going progress towards 14nm Finfet wafers. AMD just needs to be granted a cross licence agreement, maybe in exchange for Cyclos IT patents they had acquired.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> AMD is certainly worth more than its r&d budget. IBM has already demonstrated a working prototype and key partners such as Samsung and Global Foundries are in cooperation with AMD to deliver on going progress towards 14nm Finfet wafers. AMD just needs to be granted a cross licence agreement, maybe in exchange for Cyclos IT patents they had acquired.


But you'd think if they went from a working "prototype" to something that powers on and displays windows you'd think we'd have at least heard rumors about it.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> But you'd think if they went from a working "prototype" to something that powers on and displays windows you'd think we'd have at least heard rumors about it.


How much more specific does it get than an active wireless transmitter coupling graphene and silicon onto the same die? There is no more need for public discussion than engineering & individual development, imho.
Take a look: ibm-graphene-breakthrough-leads-to-chip-thats-10000-times-better/


----------



## maarten12100

ExTremely doubtfull that we would see graphene stuff the APU is however possible and if it is mobile kaveri I hope they at the very least give it enough bandwidth.


----------



## Mand12

They're not going to go from laboratory-level proof-of-concept prototyping to "Here's a new FX chip!" without publicizing intervening steps. Things like "and we contracted with a fab to make them!" come to mind.


----------



## Artikbot

Well, I'll take a 3 module 16 GCN core APU too. My AIO could use a refresh.


----------



## Seronx

Graphene isn't expected till sub 10-nm with BEUV lithography.


----------



## fateswarm

They don't even have an operational chip (graphene) that can compete with anything with heavy computational needs on any chip technology out there from any manufacturer out there. Graphene is still about 5 to 10 years away, if it will happen at all. AMD is nowhere near it.

'If it will happen at all' because at the end of the day it's still restricted by quantum mechanics silicon is restricted too, so at best it can get us closer to 10 to 5nm, rather than reinvent the wheel.

That's why technologies like chemical computers or quantum computers might be more exciting for the very long term, even if very novel and with questionable benefits.


----------



## Deadboy90

Its probably going to be something dumb. It won't be a new CPU architecture because they said not until 2015 and from what I understand both AMD and Nvidia are having problems with 20nm so likely no new GPU. And they already already announced freesync so unless its a new flying unicorn the craps thermal paste I'm not interested.


----------



## hollowtek

Probably going to be an APU with the FX moniker.


----------



## Death Saved

Guys the source has been updated its an FX APU.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> Guys the source has been updated its an FX APU.


Lol, fail.

The code on the countdown webpage:

Code:



Code:


$(this).parent().html('
[B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
');

"Oh, let's make a mystery countdown of great glorious importance ...and have the countdown code on the page blatantly reveal the message".

Where do they give those web design degrees, the internet?

PS. Still a small probability it's from an old web template and it's something different.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Would be really stupid to create an event like this for a product like that.
> 
> Then again you never know... It probably is an APU but man I hope they're actually doing something interesting with it due to the marketing campaign.


Just silly and counterintuitive marketing is my guess. They tell us it will be FX. We know that FX brand is about to move to laptops too (from that kaveri spec table that AMD published and quickly pulled down).

It could be:
a)a steamroller FX vishera successor,
b) that mysterious monolithic 16core opteron in FX form
c) Top of the line mobile kaveri
d) Excavator debuting.

I personally wouldn't even bet a single euro coin on a,b and d. It is gonna be just fully enabled kaveri for mobile. It will be nicely done with fast RAM for good iGPU gaming perfomance, probably used in decent models with 1080p screens and whatnot. I am even interested in such a product. But from a marketing perspective ,this whole campaign is pretty much only stupid hype.


----------



## 161029

Curious what's the big deal behind this APU (going by the code dug up by a few people).


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> c) Top of the line mobile kaveri
> this whole campaign is pretty much only stupid hype.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> Guys the source has been updated its an FX APU.


Yeah by a mod...
I don't really see why the source was valid and infact is AMD. I posted a Rumour yet somehow the consensus exists that I should post a Unconfirmed Article from a site that speculates away.

And the poll is gone well either way guys with this probably being Kaveri mobile with fast ram we will finaly see AMD laptops with high specs like a FHD screen big accus small form factors little weight and a good trackpad.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> That's exactly it, they want them to not be that far behind.


yeah I suppose, but its just as likely to wish for AMD to give us a Neural Net Processor from Terminator 2 as it would be for them to announce they have CPU logic that can compete with Intel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LordOfTots*
> 
> Because competition is win win, and some of us love to OC on the FX platform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but obviously, it's an APU. Hopefully not something boring.


I want competition too. I also want a hoverboard like from Back to the Future.

But we're not going to get that hoverboard, and we're not going to get CPU competition from AMD, the best competition we can get is if they give us a killer iGPU along with their mediocre CPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3ERS 2 ASH3S*
> 
> AMD is focusing on APUs and that will be what the standard is, technically half the skus for intel are apus just not branded that way.


yeah, well aware of that, as AMD needs to emphasize their product as something that isn't just CPU, because that portion of the product isn't very good. Might as well stick to your strengths and run with it, ie the GPU... although they definitely shouldn't ignore the CPU side of things, but for all this hope and long for them to make that dramatic leap essentially over night...yeah, not going to happen (prove me wrong AMD, pls, but in the mean time, give us something awesome that you are already capable of giving us...ie, a legitimately awesome APU)


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> I want competition too. I also want a hoverboard like from Back to the Future.
> 
> But we're not going to get that hoverboard, and we're not going to get CPU competition from AMD, the best competition we can get is if they give us a killer iGPU along with their mediocre CPU.


I'm more than well aware that they aren't bringing anything more than APU's(which are still fun), it's 2015 when we should supposedly see some fun stuff on the CPU side of things







that's what I'm most excited for


----------



## Clocknut

225w TDP APU with Pitcrain level performance build-in + HBM + quad channel DDR3/DDR4?


----------



## PsikyoJebus

They're gonna dump a bucket full of APUs from a ballon in space right above Intel's fabs and poke a lot of holes into their clean rooms. All this will be filmed on June 4th for the masses to witness.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus*
> 
> They're gonna dump a bucket full of APUs from a ballon in space right above Intel's fabs and poke a lot of holes into their clean rooms. All this will be filmed on June 4th for the masses to witness.


AMD further in debt.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> AMD further in debt.


By the time they reach the Intel fabs they will be moving very fast high mass and low surface area means it would smash the plant with plenty of velocity to completely destroy itself in the process(pun). Part of AMD's try a different chip campaign maybe?

Without kidding they won't be doing something like that. (I hope







)


----------



## aweir

It's a chapter 11 countdown timer.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> 225w TDP APU with Pitcrain level performance build-in + HBM + quad channel DDR3/DDR4?


Nope just the desktop Kaveri SKUs with a lower TDP and a different socket.


----------



## ozlay

32 core opteron ? 16 amd and 16 arm


----------



## Aonex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> 225w TDP APU with Pitcrain level performance build-in + HBM + quad channel DDR3/DDR4?


I wish, that'd be a day one purchase for me.


----------



## Rickyyy369

The hopeless dreamer in me is hoping for a 8-core monster APU, but given AMD's past history of mediocre releases, im forced to lower my expectations dramatically. Probably going to be mobile Kaveri. _How revolutionary._


----------



## yawa

Oh man, please be K12 details.

Please be ahead of schedule.

Please let this architecture have been one of Keller's pet projects he never actually stopped working on even when he left AMD so it turns out it's sooner rather than later in coming.

Please....I want new Red stuff oh so very badly...

In all honesty, it's probably a just as exciting (for some people) GPU based announcement about the cards and lineup they'll be using to counter Maxwell. Considering they were pretty open about a timeline on the K12 stuff, I don't see this being APU based unless they've decided to reduce the CU count in Excavator at the end of this year, and bring us a 6-8 core FX version of the chip.

Which I guess could happen if it's still on track to boost performance another 15-20% over Steamroller, but still unlikely. I will point out that they did say FX would return in 1 to 2 years, and they never really associated it specifically with Keller's K12 project.

So maybe they were hinting at going all in with their final, and (mostly) fixed Bulldozer chip, with the intention of giving us something to buy in place of Haswell-E. According to their own roadmaps, Excavator should have about a 30-40% IPC increase in performance over Vishera, so maybe they think that's a big enough leap to justify using the FX brand and tapping out some 6-8 core chips.

Ah rampant speculation. The endless siren song of the internet.

But I can still dream of K12. In fact I think I will.

Tonight...


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> By the time they reach the Intel fabs they will be moving very fast high mass and low surface area means it would smash the plant with plenty of velocity to completely destroy itself in the process(pun). Part of AMD's try a different chip campaign maybe?
> 
> Without kidding they won't be doing something like that. (I hope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


By the time they'll have reached Intel's fabs, they'll have disintegrated in re-entry into the atmosphere. So in reality, nothing would reach the Intel fab. And it would then be another dumb thing AMD's marketing has thought of.


----------



## Lostcause

As for the product launch I am nearly 100% sure it is a mobile Kaveri FX-7600P, 12 cores. GCN. Supports HSA, 2.7 GHz, boost of 3.6 GHz, 4 MB L2 cache. Graphics has 512 processors at 686 MHz. Supports DDR3 2133 memory.

None of this is new information.

This thing is going to be pretty impressive for notebooks. The reason I think it is this and not some new breakthrough product is because the media knows what the June 4 release is but NDAs are keeping them from releasing the info.

However, nothing is keeping them from buying stock and the stock price has not moved much since the marketing campaign started, this indicates it is already leaked info and the 7600P was leaked a few weeks ago.


----------



## ozlay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> 225w TDP APU with Pitcrain level performance build-in + HBM + quad channel DDR3/DDR4?


that would explain why they need to launch it from space its the only way too cool the chip properly


----------



## Ultracarpet

Watch it be the a8-7600 finally hitting shelves lolololol


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> that would explain why they need to launch it from space its the only way too cool the chip properly


nah... we could cool a 300w tdp GPU on a packed 2 explansion slot fan. A noctua size cooler should have no problem cool 300w tdp chip.


----------



## andrewx12

As said earlier in the thread. It could be arm/CPU hybrid. Doesn't the ps4 already utilize something like this for background downloads? Afaik it does. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Otherwise I think the source code that was pulled could have been a trick. Wouldn't surprise me. It should be a CPU for the Am3+ socket. They haven't released anything for that lately


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> that would explain why they need to launch it from space its the only way too cool the chip properly


If the chip was capable of running in space, that'd mean it'd have to put out very little heat at all given that you can't really dump set heat far in a vacuum.


----------



## Artikbot

Being fair though, a 16 GCN CU derp, I meant a 896/1024 shader with 3 SR modules part would be fairly attainable within a 140W TDP package given the clockspeeds Kaveri ships with.

One thing is for sure, it would make for one hell of a kickass APU.


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

GPU anouncement please! I want to upgrade!


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> By the time they'll have reached Intel's fabs, they'll have disintegrated in re-entry into the atmosphere. So in reality, nothing would reach the Intel fab. And it would then be another dumb thing AMD's marketing has thought of.


They are at the edge of the atmosphere so the re-entry speed would be extremely low I actually doubt they put this thing in orbit guess not because it never cam high enough or had enough tangential speed.
Low surface area and high mass means they wouldn't get too hot it is very possible they'll still crash into the fab the chances of missing however are much bigger.

They are not going to do it what are we speculating about


----------



## t00sl0w

too bad their marketing team has nothing worthwhile to market, i mean they do an astounding job of making people talk.


----------



## nitrubbb

please dont be notebook kaveri


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*


Holy crap!









If that balloon is what I think it is, and it sure as hell looks like it, AMD will soon be showing off a carbon nanotube processor!


----------



## Stay Puft

I would buy a 16 core steamroller in a heartbeat. It would beat up on the 5930K in everything multithreaded


----------



## Seronx

This is just for the FX APUs guys that aren't really FX processors.

A10 => FX
A8 => A10
A6 => A8
etc.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Holy crap!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that balloon is what I think it is, and it sure as hell looks like it, AMD will soon be showing off a carbon nanotube processor!


Don't get your hopes up well maybe they will give a date somewhere in the near future where they will be showing of small prototypes I mean IBM build a silicon chip with a nanotube layer underneath and it had clear advantages according to that 10000 times better article.

Kaveri mobile with fast ram is what is the most likely. (I criiii)


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Don't get your hopes up well maybe they will give a date somewhere in the near future where they will be showing of small prototypes I mean IBM build a silicon chip with a nanotube layer underneath and it had clear advantages according to that 10000 times better article.
> 
> Kaveri mobile with fast ram is what is the most likely. (I criiii)


Maybe they aren't revealing a product for sale at all. Maybe it is just a demonstration of the prototype.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

I'm excited for what amd might bring. They need to bring some innovative products o to just survive in this market dominated by Intel...


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Don't get your hopes up


Hey, it's not like I seriously expect a carbon nanotube unit ready for retail anytime soon. I always hope for insane things, that way I don't consider myself serious, thus never getting disappointed.









But seriously, AMD does hold a patent on graphene 3D electronics and a plane is kinda hard to make into a balloon. They might've made a working prototype of a graphene APU that likely won't see production till 2020 since the price would be too damn high (500GHz FX?) and made the thing spherical so they can use it on a balloon. Or maybe they do have a working carbon nanotube unit that also won't see production anytime soon since it's too expensive.

But if I were to bet, I'd say this whole thing is just AMD's PR department being high on that helium they used to fill up their balloon. Could be the very same helium tank they got high on before Bulldozer came out.


----------



## Maximization

Hopefully it is kick ass like socket 939 in its hayday


----------



## davcc22

this is amd we are talking about now Keller is back they might be able to pull an apu out of there buts that plays momma and daddy with the intell CPU and the APU the dad with the big well ill leave that up to you


----------



## damric

My sources tell me this is cut down versions of FX-9590

4.4GHz (4.6GHz Turbo) x6 at 140W TDP @ $189.99.

and

4.6GHz (4.7GHz Turbo) x4 at 140W TDP @ $159.99

My sources is my dog and my 3 year old son.









Or could it be the new FX chip?

http://www.techpowerup.com/199179/amd-fx-670k-cpu-shows-up-in-the-wild.html


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Holy crap!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that balloon is what I think it is, and it sure as hell looks like it, AMD will soon be showing off a carbon nanotube processor!


What are you talking about? Not even the giants have presented a processor that can compete on heavy loads with contemporary processors on such technologies. AMD is nothing.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What are you talking about? Not even the giants have presented a processor that can compete on heavy loads with contemporary processors on such technologies. AMD is nothing.


Does a radio receiver count as a contemporary processor. While not using graphene it has a graphene layer underneat the silicon layer. I'm sure that AMD will launch a graphene chip in the future say 2018 or beyond.


----------



## fateswarm

No, it's not a processor AMD needs, a GPU or a CPU. Those are prototypes for presentation to lure investments. AMD is nowhere near there and will not be the first to go there, at this status.


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> No, it's not a *processor* AMD needs, a *GPU* or a *CPU*. Those are prototypes for presentation to lure investments. AMD is nowhere near there and will not be the first to go there, at this status.


ummm both of those things are processors.......


----------



## Shiftstealth

On WCCF they say it is an FX APU with 2.6-3.7 Turbo with 4 Cores and 512 GCN cores at 35W. Now i'm no scientist, but at 35W thats a HUUUUGEEE change. Maybe it is graphene put out that little heat. Or its 20NM.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

AMD is know for over hyping and under delivering. Not trying to bash just saying if their history is any indicator, this wont mean much. Strictly speaking of CPU side of course.

EDIT: That looks like the structure of graphene BTW. Not sure if im stretching or what.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> On WCCF they say it is an FX APU with 2.6-3.7 Turbo with 4 Cores and 512 GCN cores at 35W. Now i'm no scientist, but at 35W thats a HUUUUGEEE change. Maybe it is graphene put out that little heat. Or its 20NM.


16nm is more likely than graphene.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> On WCCF *they say it is an FX APU with 2.6-3.7 Turbo with 4 Cores and 512 GCN cores at 35W*. Now i'm no scientist, but at 35W thats a HUUUUGEEE change. Maybe it is graphene put out that little heat. Or its 20NM.


I wouldn't believe that, too big to score.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Now my wheels have been turning, could this really be a graphene CPU we are going to see? This would undoubtedly bring AMD back, but as I said above not counting on it.


----------



## Phantom123

Its not graphene. AMD has their products made by either Globalfoundries or TSMC. None of them have graphene fabs and they only have testing equipment for their FINFET nodes.


----------



## mk16

last time graphene cpu news was posted here wasnt like on par with the computer they used in ww2 to decipher nazi messages? i doubt amd or intel for that matter are anywhere near the level to sell it to consumers.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What are you talking about? Not even the giants have presented a processor that can compete on heavy loads with contemporary processors on such technologies. *AMD is nothing.*


AMD is one of the leading semiconductor designers in both CPU and GPU markets, AMD is as nothing as Intel and nVidia. And I was referring to the balloon's shape, which is fullerene:


A pure carbon molecule, and one of the slides on carbon nanotube processors from IBM was showing this exact molecule. Now look at the balloon:


Does it, or does it not look like a fullerene molecule? And AMD is hyping something that's "way ahead of it's time". You connect the dots.


----------



## Pawelr98

If it's Kaveri mobile then I'm taking it. I need a personal laptop already. I7/I5 based laptops with Igpu/low-end nvidia gpu's are overpriced and cannot even play any games. I need a good laptop for light gaming and work.Top kaveri mobile APU with 2133mhz memory shoud be able to handle many games without problems. I just hope the price will be under 1000$ (3000PLN).


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> On WCCF they say it is an FX APU with 2.6-3.7 Turbo with 4 Cores and 512 GCN cores at 35W. Now i'm no scientist, but at 35W thats a HUUUUGEEE change. Maybe it is graphene put out that little heat. Or its 20NM.


GF28SHP is just extremely efficient at low clocks look at 7600 vs 7850k it scales to half the power by losong only 1/4 of the performance.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> I was referring to the balloon's shape


I know what it looks like. I said AMD is nothing in the business of graphene/carbon to be making such statements. They are mere clients of foundries that would be the first making such announcements, unless they would talk on behalf of GlobalFoundries again for some reason, but those mainly bowed to Samsung lately.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I know what it looks like. I said AMD is nothing in the business of graphene/carbon to be making such statements. They are mere clients of foundries that would be the first making such announcements, unless they would talk on behalf of GlobalFoundries again for some reason, but those mainly bowed to Samsung lately.


AMD registered some graphene patens and they are in a long term agreement with GF which works with IBM and Samsung.

I however agree that this is almost impossible to be an actual graphene product even if it was just the substrate that has been treated with a layer of it.


----------



## damric

It's FX Radeon branded water for your custom loop.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> AMD registered some graphene patens and they are in a long term agreement with GF which works with IBM and Samsung.
> 
> I however agree that this is almost impossible to be an actual graphene product even if it was just the substrate that has been treated with a layer of it.


BTW you should see what Samsung has filed. Billions of patents, so to speak. Though I think a lot of it is fishing, their business is 100% non-graphene now so it's like future proofing, and a potential patent-trolling area in the future.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> BTW you should see what Samsung has filed. Billions of patents, so to speak. Though I think a lot of it is fishing, their business is 100% non-graphene now so it's like future proofing, and a potential patent-trolling area in the future.


Samsung owns one of the biggest semiconductor fabs in the world. Saying that they're just future proofing to patent troll is ridiculous.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Samsung owns one of the biggest semiconductor fabs in the world. Saying that they're just future proofing to patent troll is ridiculous.


I said, future proofing *and* a potential future patent trolling area. They are a foundry. They will use graphene and they will patent troll graphene at the same time.

The world is not simple.

They do both.


----------



## DoctorNick

Please AMD make an awesome APU that will compete with intels i5 so that I can justify selling these instead


----------



## TopicClocker

I was planning to go Intel this year and get a Devils Canyon or Broadwell....
But If AMD can provide me a new processor with core performance on par with a sandy-Ivy I'm sold.

I highly doubt that but they seriously need to pull through on the CPU side.

i just want to see an awesome CPU from them, there's also a chance of a capable APU with a capable GPU.


----------



## DoctorNick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> I was planning to go Intel this year and get a Devils Canyon or Broadwell....
> But If AMD can provide me a new processor with core performance on par with a sandy-Ivy I'm sold.
> 
> I highly doubt that but they seriously need to pull through on the CPU side.
> 
> i just want to see an awesome CPU from them, there's also a chance of a capable APU with a capable GPU.


They need to cool down on the gpu side or just make an option with a stronger cpu and smaller gpu. People don't want a halv decent gpu if they can afford to buy a mid range/high end card.


----------



## F3ERS 2 ASH3S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoctorNick*
> 
> They need to cool down on the gpu side or just make an option with a stronger cpu and smaller gpu. People don't want a halv decent gpu if they can afford to buy a mid range/high end card.


mantle + HSA + hUMA =

It is better that way,

StrOng GPU in the APU fed by a CPU plus Dedicared GPUs = bigger power performance..

^that is what they are trying to do,, unify the entire system to work as one instead of individual parts


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoctorNick*
> 
> They need to cool down on the gpu side or just make an option with a stronger cpu and smaller gpu. People don't want a halv decent gpu if they can afford to buy a mid range/high end card.


Their little cores are strong but not strong enough their big cores are underpowered and unable to satisfy the poorly threaded games. Mantle and DX12 should help there but it is not the solution AMD is putting an enormous amount of effort into getting up to speed by making use of their IP for the new design.

Jimm has been there since 2012 so I think we will see the new core sooner rather than later mid 2015 is my guess however there will still be another bulldozer family part which would be Excavator which we know little about it might be on 28 or 20nm depending on them shooting for budget with HDL or them shooting for high end gaming in low power form factors.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> AMD is one of the leading semiconductor designers in both CPU and GPU markets, AMD is as nothing as Intel and nVidia. And I was referring to the balloon's shape, which is fullerene:
> 
> 
> A pure carbon molecule, and one of the slides on carbon nanotube processors from IBM was showing this exact molecule. Now look at the balloon:
> 
> 
> Does it, or does it not look like a fullerene molecule? And AMD is hyping something that's "way ahead of it's time". You connect the dots.


Oh I hope this is true, It's most likely something to do what that or hUMA if it's. "So far ahead of its time".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Their little cores are strong but not strong enough their big cores are underpowered and unable to satisfy the poorly threaded games. Mantle and DX12 should help there but it is not the solution AMD is putting an enormous amount of effort into getting up to speed by making use of their IP for the new design.
> 
> Jimm has been there since 2012 so I think we will see the new core sooner rather than later mid 2015 is my guess however there will still be another bulldozer family part which would be Excavator which we know little about it might be on 28 or 20nm depending on them shooting for budget with HDL or them shooting for high end gaming in low power form factors.


I hope AMD do something really impressive.
Wasn't Excavator supposed to be for the FX series?









Also, i thought they didn't have the R&D to compete with Intel? Not until the consoles, so maybe I'm getting too carried away thinking they'll create a core to surpass Ivy clock for clock, even though Intel's on Haswell and moving onto Broadwell. I suppose it's likely as Ivy is almost 2 years old now... So Sandy at-least hopefully.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Oh I hope this is true, It's most likely something to do what that or hUMA if it's. "So far ahead of its time".
> I hope AMD do something really impressive.
> Wasn't Excavator supposed to be for the FX series?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, i thought they didn't have the R&D to compete with Intel? Not until the consoles, so maybe I'm getting too carried away thinking they'll create a core to surpass Ivy clock for clock, even though Intel's on Haswell and moving onto Broadwell. I suppose it's likely as Ivy is almost 2 years old now... So Sandy at-least hopefully.


They showed Kaveri last year at computex so there is a chance they'll show Excavator though people shouldn't get carried away even if Excavator turns out to be beefed up on the core side it couldn't make up for some of the problems still present the new design Keller is putting together should address that.


----------



## andyboy

10W 8 core 3ghz plz


----------



## Maximization

10 core with 50MB of cache


----------



## fateswarm

Man, that cache would fit windows xp lite.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cam51037*
> 
> I found this in the source code:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth[/SIZE][/B]
> ');
> 
> So it looks like they're going to release a new APU under the FX name, interesting. I got the FX part from the picture of the balloon, with the FX logo on it.


cam wins this thread.

To the "I won't ever buy an APU" people , if it had 12 or 16 cores with high IPC (i.e. higher than Ivy Bridge) and high clocks (4Ghz+ unlike Kaveri) you'd be a fool not to. An i7-4770k is an APU also, it just doesn't have HSA / HUMA and such.


----------



## kzone75

Did they change the source code? $(this).parent().html('

*Don't be so impatient*

'); Maybe they change it daily?

Edit: Why do I get the huge letters?


----------



## Cyrious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximization*
> 
> 10 core with 50MB of cache


That'd be one really big chip. The LGA 2011 Xeons all have huge dies, and on the latest ones i think close to 40% of the die space is L3 cache, with another 5-10% for the higher level caches (L2 and both L1s).

After a certain point having an xbawks hueg last level cache is simply a waste of space, space that'd be better spent on other more useful things, doubly so since AMD's construction core L3 has a minimal effect on performance due to the way its set up.

Now if they reverted to how its set up in Phenom II where a faster larger L3 actually made a significant difference in performance, I'd say 4MB per core pair and go for it.


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Did they change the source code? $(this).parent().html('
> 
> *Don't be so impatient*
> 
> '); Maybe they change it daily?
> 
> Edit: Why do I get the huge letters?


hmm, yeah they did. this maybe something we should watch because like i said before.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> what if that was their plan all along, let us find something like this only to go and release something else


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> hmm, yeah they did. this maybe something we should watch because like i said before.


If that was their plan they wouldn't have covered it back up.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> If that was their plan they wouldn't have covered it back up.


reversed psychology perhaps


----------



## Seronx

The only thing carbon in 28nm-SHP is embedded Silicon Carbide in the pMOSFET. 20nm LPM improves upon that by adding it to the nMOSFET. 10nm FDSOI adds it to the channel and insulator.


----------



## hyp36rmax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Did they change the source code? $(this).parent().html('
> 
> *Don't be so impatient*
> 
> '); Maybe they change it daily?
> 
> Edit: Why do I get the huge letters?


Well played AMD, well played... I'm really excited about AMD recently, let's hope they don't let us down


----------



## Cyberion

When will AMD stop calling their defeat and back in the fray? The focus on APUs was one of the largest stretches of any company. For AMD, it solidfied the Intel lead in every important CPU market segment (desktop and server). If they focused on surpassing Intel, they'd make great strides in resolving their slowly imploding company. Luckily they are leading in the GPU market. Titan Z is Nvidia's AMD-play.


----------



## sasuke256

a core i5 killer ?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyberion*
> 
> When will AMD stop calling their defeat and back in the fray? The focus on APUs was one of the largest stretches of any company. For AMD, it solidfied the Intel lead in every important CPU market segment (desktop and server). If they focused on surpassing Intel, they'd make great strides in resolving their slowly imploding company. Luckily they are leading in the GPU market. Titan Z is Nvidia's AMD-play.


Be happy about that at least now we are getting innovations on the hybrid compute part of things. If Intel hadn't bribed all the OEM's AMD would have gained over 20% market share beating Intel products for generations if AMD had that money Intel would be kinda finished. But Intel did in fact bribe which cut AMD short of the resources needed for the fastest cpu however it also pushed AMD towards buying ATI going forward.

If Intel hadn't bribed OEMs back then made some unfair compilers etc HSA could've been postponed until much later in the end we benefit from Intel's misdeeds, don't you think?.

Now the best scenario would've been if AMD had at least 50% of the market and could pursuit HSA with guaranteed software adoption. As far as this APU goes I hope for mobile Kaveri to have the GDDR5 or HBM and I also they will show Excavator APUs and preferably in something other than PCMARK 8.


----------



## ronal

Hope its a strong APU so I can't finally upgrade from the aging 775 platform.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> If that was their plan they wouldn't have covered it back up.


A more likely answer is that AMD folk have been perusing the internet and saw they messed it up.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Hope its a strong APU so I can't finally upgrade from the aging 775 platform.


You probably would be best thinking about that next year with Carrizo.


----------



## spice003

no wonder Intel is releasing 6 and 8 core desktop CPUs they probably know something.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spice003*
> 
> no wonder Intel is releasing 6 and 8 core desktop CPUs they probably know something.


The mainstream is 4 core since the dawn of the universe. I recently fiddled with an office pc from 5 years ago that nobody cared to rice. It was 4 core Intel.

It will be 4 core until at least the end of Skylake.


----------



## Crnogorac

Since it will most likely be an APU,if I had to guess what they are going to present us with,I'd say it is going to be a beefed up Kaveri with 6 cores and stronger GPU paired with HBM.Either that or mobile kaveri with HBM...

Those are the only *realistic* things that could live up to the hype.Don't expect graphene for another 5 years,probably more(10+ in my opinion)

Anyway,can't wait until Computex - Hopefully AMD won't dissapoint *fingers crossed*


----------



## Seronx

If you do not want to get disappointed expect;

2.7 GHz / 3.6 GHz - Quad Core Steamroller
600 MHz / 686 MHz - 512 Sea Islands GCN ALUs
Socket FP3 - Dual Channel DDR3


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> Since it will most likely be an APU,if I had to guess what they are going to present us with,I'd say it is going to be a beefed up Kaveri with 6 cores and stronger GPU paired with HBM.Or mobile kaveri with HBM...
> 
> That's the only *realistic* thing that could live up to the hype.Don't expect graphene for another 5 years,probably more(10+ in my opinion)
> 
> Anyway,can't wait until Computex - Hopefully AMD won't dissapoint *fingers crossed*


It's going to be good if the cores surpass Piledriver cores, but what about those with already capable GPUs? The GPU could be close to useless for them but for APU builds it would be nice.
But with their HSA/hUMA stuff they're pursuing it may not be, hmm.


----------



## damric

Tress FX 2.0.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> If you do not want to get disappointed expect;
> 
> 2.7 GHz / 3.6 GHz - Quad Core Steamroller
> 600 MHz / 686 MHz - 512 Sea Islands GCN ALUs
> Socket FP3 - Dual Channel DDR3


I know,but I'm a glass half full kind of guy.

I just wish they would release a *decent* APU.
Try to imagine a 6 core Steamroller,clocked at around 3.5GHz and 4GHz turbo,along with 1024 gcn alus and HBM.

Now,that's an APU i'd buy in a heartbeat - That's practically fx 6350 performance,along with a ~ hd 7850 gpu.

Anyway,I wonder when HSA will get context switching & graphics preemption.Can't wait for that,as well

P.S. - know my expectations are unrealistic,and I'll be dissapointed,but oh well,it's fun to speculate!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> Anyway,I wonder when HSA will get context switching & graphics preemption.Can't wait for that,as well ^^


1H 2015, APUs and GPUs will support context switching and graphics pre-emption. The discrete GPUs are included because HSA extends to dGPUs with the 2015 "System Integration."


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> It's going to be good if the cores surpass Piledriver cores, but what about those with already capable GPUs? The GPU could be close to useless for them but for APU builds it would be nice.
> But with their HSA/hUMA stuff they're pursuing it may not be, hmm.


It is most likely mobile Kaveri with fast high latency memory so there is no such thing as people that already have capable GPUs since it is laptops were are talking about.


----------



## poizone

If this is a very large demo of something, it better be AMD announcing graphene fabs. That's something they could capitalize on.

One can dream.


----------



## f0rteOC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> I know,but I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
> 
> I just wish they would release a *decent* APU.
> Try to imagine a 6 core Steamroller,clocked at around 3.5GHz and 4GHz turbo,along with 1024 gcn alus and HBM.
> 
> Now,that's an APU i'd buy in a heartbeat - That's practically fx 6350 performance,along with a ~ hd 7850 gpu.
> 
> Anyway,I wonder when HSA will get context switching & graphics preemption.Can't wait for that,as well
> 
> P.S. - know my expectations are unrealistic,and I'll be dissapointed,but oh well,it's fun to speculate!


I don't think AMD wants another 225W processor.


----------



## fateswarm

We don't need APUs man. We need a GPU socket on mother boards. And VRAM slots.

Oh yiss.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rteOC*
> 
> I don't think AMD wants another 225W processor.


Good point,but i'd still buy it.

I don't really care about power consumption.What I do care about is performance,and such a part would have sufficient CPU and GPU grunt.

Also,it would consume a lot less power than 225w.If I had to guess,I'd say it's doable within 140w,probably even lower,depending on the gpu and cpu clocks


----------



## Rickyyy369

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rteOC*
> 
> I don't think AMD wants another 225W processor.


Even if it was 225W I could still see it being a moderately successful product. It would pretty much be the go-to chip for every mid-range gaming build if they priced it around $200-$230. Plus you could add another mid-range GPU to it later on and run them in hybrid crossfire and have a very powerful gaming PC.

But I honestly don't see it happening. AMD would never think to give us something thats actually impressive -_-


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rteOC*
> 
> I don't think AMD wants another 225W processor.


on GF28SHP this could all fit in a 100W power envelope as long as the gpu cores run at about 600/700MHz and the cpu cores don't exceed 3,5GHz.
I mean we have a 35W part featuring 512SPs at 680MHz and 2 steamroller modules at 2,7GHz. So 512SPs extra and a extra module and a tad higher cpu clocks can be done within a 100W tdp.

Now the problems here are that the large gpu portion needs high latency fast memory while the cpu portion would be slowed down a tad futher if it had that high latency ram thus it would need low latency slow memory. Another problem would be the die space as the desing mentiond would take up quite a bit.

180mm^2 for the steamroller cores and the uncore
240mm^2 for the GCN cores

You'd end up with a 420mm^2 die and that would cost at least 200 dollar.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> We don't need APUs man. We need a GPU socket on mother boards. And VRAM slots.
> 
> Oh yiss.


That wouldn't really work with HSA as it stand for know however in 2015 thing like this will happen. As for the gddr5 slots nobody knows whether that will see the light of day.
In laptops you want the cpu and gpu on the same die as it saves tremendous amounts of power.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Even if it was 225W I could still see it being a moderately successful product. It would pretty much be the go-to chip for every mid-range gaming build if they priced it around $200-$230. Plus you could add another mid-range GPU to it later on and run them in hybrid crossfire and have a very powerful gaming PC.
> 
> But I honestly don't see it happening. AMD would never think to give us something thats actually impressive -_-


It would be great and the 200 to 250 dollar price point is certainly possible judging by the cost of the APU in the PS4 and his respective die size versus cost. One would need to factor in that this is a non high quantity compared to the console APUs to begin with selling 100k at best. However it would sell very well if the could get it in the 350 and bellow price point for board, vram, APU.


----------



## Clocknut

Whats wrong with paying $200 on a APU? What wrong with 225w APU?

We have 300w GPU already. $1000 300w super APU are fine, enthusiast would probably end up spending >$1000 on Intel + discrete GPU anyway.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Merger with IBM?


----------



## Kalistoval

O shaped Cpu anyone?


----------



## yawa

With the finding of that source code, I'm pretty sure this announcement has something to do with Excavator.

I'm going to go out on a limb (like most people here) and make a guess.

That guess is that we are about to find out that Excavator has also been one of Jim Keller's side projects (perhaps the "only" side project, other than his new "from scratch" architecture) and I will say next week we will find out he has tweaked the architecture or redrawn the chip to allow for more cores on die and/or a much higher IPC jump than originally Roadmapped.

That's my final prediction on this. Unless the new Architecture he's been working on is "miraculously" miles ahead of where we think it is, this is the only FX/APU announcement that makes sense when fit into the criteria of the website's source code.

I'm steadily getting more and more confident my "guess" is at least close to the truth because the facts more than line up.

Let's take a look at what we know...

- No matter how impressive the 7600 is per watt, they couldn't call the 7600 the most advanced APU ever made, considering they themselves have two chips more advanced than it. So that squashes this being about mobile Kaveri.-

- They just gave a very candid interview about Keller's Skybridge and new Architecture progress, and they openly stated when they expect that progress to pay off wouldn't be till middle or end of 2015 at the earliest. So I very much doubt it's that.-

- The source code specifically states "Most advanced APU ever." And liberally uses the FX logo. That's a pretty clear statement of intent in my book.-

So yeah. I'm going to say it again, Keller tweaked Excavator. He came back right when Steamroller was being tapped out into engineering samples, so that would mean a lot of architectural changes could still be made and tested in regards to Excavator.
So he figured something out, and his tweaks were impressive enough, or the IPC jump was a lot bigger than it had any right to be, or both, and AMD felt comfortable enough to hype it and slap the FX branding on it.

So that is my prediction when limiting myself to what we know about this announcement.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> With the finding of that source code, I'm pretty sure this announcement has something to do with Excavator.
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb (like most people here) and guess that Excavator has also been one of Jim Keller's side projects, and I will say next week we will find out he has tweaked the architecture or redrawn the chip to allow for most cores and higher IPC than originally Roadmapped.
> 
> That's my final prediction on this. Unless the new Architecture he's been working on is "miraculously" miles ahead of where we think it is, this is the only FX/APU announcement that makes sense when fit into the criteria of the website's source code.
> 
> No matter how impressive it isper watt, they couldn't call the 7600 the most advanced APU ever made, considering they have two chips more advanced than it.
> 
> So yeah. Keller tweaked Excavator and made it a far bigger IPC jump than it has any right to be, is my final prediction for this.


All I want is an 8 core with sandy level IPC and i'd happily get rid of this fx-9590.. please don't make me go intel next round!


----------



## sugarhell

8 sides on each octagon. 8 core apu confirmed


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> 8 sides on each octagon. 8 core apu confirmed


8? or 6?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> So yeah. Keller tweaked Excavator and made it a far bigger IPC jump than it has any right to be, is my final prediction for this.


Nope, the guys at Bangalore and Hyderabad are the ones who worked on Steamroller and Excavator. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Alinkedin.com+%22AMD%22+Fellow+India

Jim Keller is after that with him leading the teams which will be making the side-by-side designing of the ARM 64-bit and x86 64-bit µarchs.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> All I want is an 8 core with sandy level IPC and i'd happily get rid of this fx-9590.. please don't make me go intel next round!


I can't definitively say anything about core count, but even without Keller making some drastic changes Excavator was shaping up to be at least another 15-20% IPC gain in the previous Roadmaps. That would certainly get a four core chip well into i5 level Sandy performance considering my steamroller chip performs right in between an i3 and an i5.

I'm just saying that for them to whip out the FX branding and call this "The most advanced APU ever made" knowing full well the recent public thought process has been conditioned to regard FX chips as six to eight core multi-taskers, well, I have a feeling that is exactly what you are going to get next week.

So cross your fingers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Nope, the guys at Bangalore and Hyderabad are the ones who worked on Steamroller and Excavator. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Alinkedin.com+%22AMD%22+Fellow+India
> 
> Jim Keller is after that with him leading the teams which will be making the side-by-side designing of the ARM 64-bit and x86 64-bit µarchs.


I get that Seronx. Especially since even if they worked hand in hand his plate would be more than full as it is.

I'm just pointing out how odd this announcement's timing is in regards to any of the speculation, and since the website's source code all but confirms it's about the most advanced APU they've ever constructed while reupping the FX branding, an out of the blue tweaked Excavator chip is all that makes sense at this point. If they were following their own roadmaps, we already know that exactly none of those chips were going to get (true, not A10 FXesque branding, but true) FX branding, and I would have to hope AMD wouldn't be stupid enough (well at this point anyways) to over hype an APU we already know is coming unless some kind of drastic change was to take place.

Either way we don't have long to wait.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I get that Seronx. Especially since even if they worked hand in hand his plate would be more than full as it is.
> 
> I'm just pointing out how odd this announcement's timing is in regards to any of the speculation, and since the website's source code all but confirms it's about the most advanced APU they've ever constructed while reupping the FX branding, an out of the blue tweaked Excavator chip is all that makes sense at this point.
> 
> Either way we don't have long to wait.


The announcement is for the Kaveri mobile platform.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> 8? or 6?


I can dream...(i tho that was an octagon but its a hexagon so 6 core?







)


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Nope, the guys at Bangalore and Hyderabad are the ones who worked on Steamroller and Excavator. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Alinkedin.com+%22AMD%22+Fellow+India
> 
> Jim Keller is after that with him leading the teams which will be making the side-by-side designing of the ARM 64-bit and x86 64-bit µarchs.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> The announcement is for the Kaveri mobile platform.


OK sure.

Except you need to explain how they could get away calling it the most advanced APU they've ever made when both the 7700k and 7850k exist?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Except you need to explain how they could get away calling it the most advanced APU they've ever made when both the 7700k and 7850k exist?


As simple as possible; Marketing.


----------



## azanimefan

I remember seeing some supposed slide that showed the core design of the a10-7850k, and apparently (if true) it had half the chip disabled... half the graphics half the cores... meaning it was really an 8 core cpu not a 4 core, the theory was the yeilds were so poor on the new process, they had to disable half the chip in order to release a functioning product.

IF that slide is true, and the theory behind the reason for it are true... then i could envision an scenario where they were releasing a "kaveri" refresh like the richland refresh of trinity... only with a "MOAR CORZ!" APU that overclocked better (like richland overclocked better then trinity)... with graphic performance dancing closer to a r7-260x would, be somewhat of an enticing performance part. That said till they add a functioning l3 cache and DDR4 support to the APU lineup, i'm just not gonna get excited


----------



## yawa

Seronx, if they are dumb enough to do that and the announcement of the 7600 is what this is about, and no mention of Excavator or a newer architecture comes out of this, I'll go out over the summer and build an i7 rig just to spite them.

That's all I'm going to say about it. The new AMD is not that stupid. This is not about mobile Kaveri. They would absolutely not risk misleading the enthusiasts again with such hype.

The 7600 is good stuff. But even they know it is not this level of hype worthy.

That being said, till I saw "the most advanced APU we've ever made" quote, I would have agreed with you 100%.


----------



## 12Cores

I would love to see them give the am3+ platform one last high end cpu, but I think we will just end up with another low powered apu that is useless for gaming.


----------



## hathornd

Please... No APU. There are enough. Kaveri is still pretty new. Just be a new FX non-APU...

But it will be an APU.


----------



## boot318

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hathornd*
> 
> Please... No APU. There are enough. Kaveri is still pretty new. Just be a new FX non-APU...
> 
> But it will be an APU.


8-core iGPU-less APU (16-core is just too huge for 28nm)..... I'm back with the Red Team. I just expect them to talk about mobile though.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> I remember seeing some supposed slide that showed the core design of the a10-7850k, and apparently (if true) it had half the chip disabled... half the graphics half the cores... meaning it was really an 8 core cpu not a 4 core, the theory was the yeilds were so poor on the new process, they had to disable half the chip in order to release a functioning product.
> 
> IF that slide is true, and the theory behind the reason for it are true... then i could envision an scenario where they were releasing a "kaveri" refresh like the richland refresh of trinity... only with a "MOAR CORZ!" APU that overclocked better (like richland overclocked better then trinity)... with graphic performance dancing closer to a r7-260x would, be somewhat of an enticing performance part. That said till they add a functioning l3 cache and DDR4 support to the APU lineup, i'm just not gonna get excited


Most of that stuff is my stuff, lol.

The half disabled things;
Module
GPU
IMC

The disabled things;
Integrated Voltage Regulator
Integrated Southbridge

The module has more ALUs, AGLUs, FMACs/MMX units with more registers than released with Kaveri. It is still a 4 core design it is just that there should have been a massive single-threaded improvement. AMD Bulldozer/Piledriver mostly always runs at peak IPC already. AMD Steamroller needed more units and wider acceleration.

(There are two types of decoders in 15h, the prefix decoder and the instruction decoder. This allows the instruction decoder to hit peak IPC easier by shrinking the code footprint in the pick phase. Add that Steamroller added the loop decoder which holds on to decoded loops.) <-- in relation to my peak IPC comment.

The GPU has some CUs and ROPs disabled and some other misc things are disabled. The ACE units might be dumber than what was originally intended but I wouldn't be able to tell.

The IMC has one 128-bit DDR3/GDDR5 interface not GDDR5M disabled.

Firmware wise there should be an integrated fusion controller hub. The IVR requires a new socket and a new package substrate.

None of these will be on Kaveri mobile apparently even though this roadmap kind of shows something late 2014.


----------



## NKrader

its an amd part that is actually faster than nvidia/Intel??


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> lol. Ya because AMD's engineering and R&D team will definitely put one out before Intel is able to...


You do realize that without AMd we wouldn't have

X86-x64
DDR(It would be rambus instead)
Ondie memory controllers
Power gating
Multi core processors.
APU'S real apu's not that GPu + Cpu on the same pcb like the GMA series was.

Just because you can throw a ton of money at something doesn't make you brilliant, AMD has alot of brilliant minds just like intel does, It doesn't mean AMD can't beat intel to the punch because they have done so in the past.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> You do realize that without AMd we wouldn't have
> 
> X86-x64
> DDR(It would be rambus instead)
> Ondie memory controllers
> Power gating
> Multi core processors.
> APU'S real apu's not that GPu + Cpu on the same pcb like the GMA series was.
> 
> Just because you can throw a ton of money at something doesn't make you brilliant, AMD has alot of brilliant minds just like intel does, It doesn't mean AMD can't beat intel to the punch because they have done so in the past.


Yep, but this is not the same AMD as 7-8 years ago. Till they actually prove they can beat Intel on something important with CPUs this generation they don't get the benefit of the doubt based on those past accomplishments.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> APU'S real apu's not that GPu + Cpu on the same pcb like the GMA series was.


Fun fact: AMD and Intel released their first actual "APUs" (cpu and gpu on the same die) within a few days of each other.

AMD's launch was also for a much lower end, lower performance and smaller design.


----------



## darkcloud89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> OK sure.
> 
> Except you need to explain how they could get away calling it the most advanced APU they've ever made when both the 7700k and 7850k exist?


Because it still is there most advanced APU, just now being released for mobile. It has already been stated by people that were briefed on the event that it's nothing for enthusiasts to be excited about.


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkcloud89*
> 
> Because it still is there most advanced APU, just now being released for mobile. It has already been stated by people that were briefed on the event that it's nothing for enthusiasts to be excited about.


"gaming enthusiasts", not "enthusiasts". he probably means the same thing though


----------



## Lostcause

It is an APU, and like I said earlier in the thread my bet is that it is the mobile Kaveri FX-7600P, 12 cores. GCN. Supports HSA, 2.7 GHz, boost of 3.6 GHz, 4 MB L2 cache. Graphics has 512 processors at 686 MHz. Supports DDR3 2133 memory.


----------



## geoxile

I doubt anyone would get excited over a lower-end version of something that was already launched.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Jason Evangelho said: "Probably not as exciting for gaming enthusiasts".
> I have to disagree with him. I think that enthusiast gamers will be very satisfied.


Not sure how AMD NDA-ed this Fottemberg character is but I guess it is as good a bet as any.
My expectations are that they will launch a mobile "Kaveri Pro" line-up for mobile with some SKU's featuring faster memory. I also think they will showcase Carrizo like they did with Kaveri last year just a few more days guys.


----------



## fateswarm

APUs aren't for your desktops people. Their intend is to be used on tablets, phablets and small laptops. You know, where the money is.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> APUs aren't for your desktops people. Their intend is to be used on tablets, phablets and small laptops. You know, where the money is.


For most desktop tasks and light gaming APUs can be a decent choice. Kabini chips can do multimedia and regular desktop tasks along with very light gaming and fit in a bellow 200 euro price point. The A8-7600 should bring Kaveri to the mainstream for cheap gaming of todays games.


----------



## F3ERS 2 ASH3S

All I have to say is atleast they are keeping an eye on the forums and seeing who is all paying attention,

Code:



Code:


        $(this).on('finish.countdown', function(event) {
            $(this).addClass('hidden');
            $(this).parent().html('
[B][SIZE=15]Donâ€™t be so impatient[/SIZE][/B]
');


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lostcause*
> 
> It is an APU, and like I said earlier in the thread my bet is that it is the mobile Kaveri FX-7600P, 12 cores. GCN. Supports HSA, 2.7 GHz, boost of 3.6 GHz, 4 MB L2 cache. Graphics has 512 processors at 686 MHz. Supports DDR3 2133 memory.


This.

Don't expect desktop excavator, that would be nonsensical, Kaveri came out just 4 months ago. And skipping mobile Steamroller (kaveri) in order to go straight to mobile Excavator? Won't happen. I really do hope I am wrong and that we will get something that even remotely justifies this campaign but as it stands right now, it smells hyperbole.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> APUs aren't for your desktops people. Their intend is to be used on tablets, phablets and small laptops. You know, where the money is.


You made my APU sad..


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3ERS 2 ASH3S*
> 
> All I have to say is atleast they are keeping an eye on the forums and seeing who is all paying attention,
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> $(this).on('finish.countdown', function(event) {
> $(this).addClass('hidden');
> $(this).parent().html('
> [B][SIZE=15]Donâ€™t be so impatient[/SIZE][/B]
> ');


My intel confirms this finding!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## nitrubbb

If this is a mobile APU released under FX name then this is a new low in marketing


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> If this is a mobile APU released under FX name then this is a new low in marketing


Unless it is really good like with GDDR5 then we can let it slide, don't you agree?
We already know there will be an APU FX branded part coming to mobile and that will start happening more and more often as long as AMD pursuits HSA.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Well, if they showcase desktop Carizzo or something with specific release dates then the whole thing *could* be salvaged.


----------



## Alatar

I don't understand how any of their marketing here would make sense for a low power full kaveri die...

So much ahead of its time that we've seen it 6 months ago?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I don't understand how any of their marketing here would make sense for a low power full kaveri die...
> 
> So much ahead of its time that we've seen it 6 months ago?


If it is mobile Kaveri with GDDR5 we will see it stomping most mainstream dedicated gpus offered by Nvidia and obliterate Intel's Iris pro (which it already does with DDR3 at higher resolutions)
I would say it is infact ahead far ahead of the competition but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it will be ahead of mainstream Maxwell chips in terms of performance


----------



## raghu78

If its just a Kaveri FX-7600P with CPU clocks 2.7 Ghz base / 3. 6 Ghz turbo and GPU clocks 600 Mhz base / 686 Mhz turbo and DDR3 2166 Mhz support with 35w TDP its a disappointment. Those specs have been well known for a long time. In fact the Embedded R series Kaveri APUs have already been officially launched

http://www.amd.com/Documents/2nd_Gen_Rseries_Product_Brief.pdf

But if its a peek at Carrizo with the Excavator core and with High Bandwidth Mememory then it might be fair to say its the most advanced APU ever. AMD's APUs are in desperate need of bandwidth. There are rumours that AMD has doubled the execution units (EX units) per integer cluster. So if that turns out true Excavator might be a good CPU core. A 256 bit FPU with High density libraries is already expected in Excavator.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its-3rd-gen-steamroller-architecture/2


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> If this is a mobile APU released under FX name then this is a new low in marketing


well it used to be that fx meant the top in said product stack so if there is an FX laptop apu and there is nothing better that amd can shove in a mobile chip than and only than the product is worthy of the right of passage that is the fx branding


----------



## Alatar

FX used to mean best of the best.

It was basically AMD's version of "Extreme edition" (intel). That changed with Bulldozer though, the FX name has been quite badly tarnished to be honest. These days it means value and compromise to people.


----------



## Olivon

Right.

Before, FX was a top notch expensive line product.
Hopefully, Opteron was a good alternative and it was possible to have great performance while non have to pay too much for it.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> FX used to mean best of the best.
> 
> It was basically AMD's version of "Extreme edition" (intel). That changed with Bulldozer though, the FX name has been quite badly tarnished to be honest. These days it means value and compromise to people.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FX-62 the last _highly-competitive_ single-CPU chip (excluding the dual-CPU "Quad FX" platform) put out under the FX brand? As I recall, it was only a couple of months after that (July 2006) when Intel put out its Conroe-based "Core 2 Duo" CPUs and started its current 8-year reign of unchallenged supremacy...


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FX-62 the last _highly-competitive_ single-CPU chip (excluding the dual-CPU "Quad FX" platform) put out under the FX brand? As I recall, it was only a couple of months after that (July 2006) when Intel put out its Conroe-based "Core 2 Duo" CPUs and started its current 8-year reign of unchallenged supremacy...


Yea, the FX-62 was the best for them, though it was the age of transferring into dual cores (which the fx-62 was of course), then came out c2d and changed the game. I still have my fx-53 sitting here.. ah the glory days


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> FX used to mean best of the best.
> 
> It was basically AMD's version of "Extreme edition" (intel). That changed with Bulldozer though, the FX name has been quite badly tarnished to be honest. These days it means value and compromise to people.


AMD's Orochi is AMD's best die for consumers who wanted a workstation. It wasn't badly tarnished as that was the same thing for the old FX processors.

Athlon 64 FX-62
Opteron 1220 SE

Based on the pricing it seems the FX series was more expensive for the same thing from the Opterons. While it even had the same launch pattern as the FX-8350 and the equivalent Opteron's with Orochi.

Consumers that bought AMD are very lucky they decided not to keep the prices of the FX higher than the Opterons.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113323

Just check out that price difference. Can you imagine paying $399-499+ for the FX (Orochi) series....??


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FX-62 the last _highly-competitive_ single-CPU chip (excluding the dual-CPU "Quad FX" platform) put out under the FX brand? As I recall, it was only a couple of months after that (July 2006) when Intel put out its Conroe-based "Core 2 Duo" CPUs and started its current 8-year reign of unchallenged supremacy...




Then C2D happened

Far Cry


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Then C2D happened


Then Phenom came out and just rekt Intel's price/performance. The post-2007 AMD was definitely smarter and much more consumer friendly.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

I'm surprised. Usually AMD threads go down the toilet pretty quickly, but this one seems to be better than normal.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> 8 sides on each octagon. 8 core apu confirmed


They already have 12 core APUs, and they've had 10 since Trinity (not sure about Llano). Oh, you mean CPU core?







That's different and unlikely.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> The announcement is for the Kaveri mobile platform.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: AMD announcement propaganda!


I would not be surprised at all, and even though I hope this is something like an Excavator/Carrizo teaser, or essentially a socketed version of the Xbone's APU, it's probably going to be something boring like this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> OK sure.
> 
> Except you need to explain how they could get away calling it the most advanced APU they've ever made when both the 7700k and 7850k exist?


Flagship desktop chip = flagship laptop chip + 60W TDP. I'm almost certain that laptop and desktop chips use the exact same silicon, just on a smaller socket (though I wouldn't mind an FM2+ laptop







)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Fun fact: AMD and Intel released their first actual "APUs" (cpu and gpu on the same die) within a few days of each other.
> 
> AMD's launch was also for a much lower end, lower performance and smaller design.


Oh, really? What were they? I'm going to assume Intel's was their first consumer chip with an iGPU (Core2, right?) while AMD's was a low-power predecessor to the cat cores. It couldn't have been Llano.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> APUs aren't for your desktops people. Their intend is to be used on tablets, phablets and small laptops. You know, where the money is.


True, depending how you interpret "your." If by "your," you mean "OCN readers'," then yeah, I agree. We aren't really in the target audience. If by "your" you mean "people's in general," then you couldn't be more wrong. Most prebuilt desktops are running Intel chips or AMD APUs with no separate GPU. Any low-power system, like an HTPC (SLI 780s != HTPC, crazy people who do this







) or an office PC, is arguably better off without an iGPU, since it's consuming less power to do the exact same tasks. AMD already has a tablet/phone architecture, called Jaguar and the cat cores in general.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> FX used to mean best of the best.
> 
> It was basically AMD's version of "Extreme edition" (intel). That changed with Bulldozer though, the FX name has been quite badly tarnished to be honest. These days it means value and compromise to people.


WOAH! Are you trying to tell me that the 9590 _wasn't_ high-end and high-performance?! Man, you sound biased!









But yes, Bulldozer sucked, and it does feel weird seeing AMD's flagship server-derived chip being sold for ~$300 (9590) while Intel's is around ~$1050 (#960X). Excavator is supposed to undo most of the bad parts of Bulldozer, so there's some hope. Of course, undoing the bad parts means that the only thing shared in a module is the FPU (I think), which kind of eliminates a lot of the benefits CMT promised.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> The post-2007 AMD was definitely smarter and much more consumer friendly.


No, just slower. FX 8150 cost $245 back when it came out despite the fact that it fell short of even Nehalem i5, not to mention Sandy Bridge i5. Piledriver costs as much as it costs not because AMD is consumer friendly, but because they wouldn't sell anything by pricing their units more than Ivy Bridge i5. Phenom II cost as much as it did because it couldn't beat Nehalem but it cost as much as C2D/C2Q back when it came out cause it was as fast and Nehalem still wasn't released. Think for a moment, if FX 8150 was a real enthusiast unit worthy of the FX branding and was able to outperform Sandy Bridge i7 per core, do you think it would've cost $245 or $900?

AMD isn't Mother Teresa, AMD is a company that cares about profit just as much as any other company does, and is willing to charge a premium for the best product.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'm going to assume Intel's was their first consumer chip with an iGPU (Core2, right?) while AMD's was a low-power predecessor to the cat cores. It couldn't have been Llano.


Intel's first CPU with an integrated GPU was Westmere, AMD's first APU was Llano, Core 2 had a GPU integrated into the Northbridge (on-board graphics, not on-chip graphics). They both sucked equally on the iGPU side of things, Llano a little less than Westmere but it was still bad.

The difference right now is that Intel iGPU still sucks (except Iris Pro which is close to AMD's Radeon but it's still nowhere to be seen on desktop) while AMD pulled ahead and sucks less.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> The difference right now is that Intel iGPU still sucks (except Iris Pro which is close to AMD's Radeon but it's still nowhere to be seen on desktop) while AMD pulled ahead and sucks less.


It's not that their GPU's suck per se, but they don't have decent drivers at all. In the GPU industry, where drivers have cause cards to melt the PCIe socket and ruin the motherboard, this is not asking for much at all. I think the hardware itself is decent. Not nearly as good as AMD, but usable. Of course, having several megabytes of L4 dedicated to the GPU helps a lot.


----------



## PcGamer1977

I wish it was a Phenom III that was coming out!


----------



## NuclearPeace

I'm going to assume that every single CPU AMD will release going forward will have graphics cores built into them. WIth HSA, theres little reason to not do that.

Anyway, I support going back to the old naming convention.

A10s and what we would call FX chips should be under Phenom III
Mid spec and high to mid spec laptop chips should be under Athlon III
Tablet, smartphone, netbook, ULV, and low end desktop chips would be under Sempron III


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Can you imagine paying $399-499+ for the FX (Orochi) series....??


No and for good reason.

And that's the entire point.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Then Phenom came out and just rekt Intel's price/performance. The post-2007 AMD was definitely smarter and much more consumer friendly.


Phenom I was terrible, late, didn't reach high enough clocks and in general was a bad competitor for the core 2s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Oh, really? What were they? I'm going to assume Intel's was their first consumer chip with an iGPU (Core2, right?) while AMD's was a low-power predecessor to the cat cores. It couldn't have been Llano.


Sandy bridge and Brazos.

Brazos (E-350 etc.) was launched 6 days before SB was.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> The post-2007 AMD was definitely smarter and much more consumer friendly.


Since 2007, AMD have loosen market share at the speed of light.
Less than 3% on the x86 server side is really scary and if AMD could they will approach Intel's prices but they simply can't because they're no competitive at all.
Xeons rapes Opteron something indecent right now.
Since Core 2, AMD is struggling and lagging hard, it's a fact..


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> It's not that their GPU's suck per se, but they don't have decent drivers at all. In the GPU industry, where drivers have cause cards to melt the PCIe socket and ruin the motherboard, this is not asking for much at all. I think the hardware itself is decent. Not nearly as good as AMD, but usable. Of course, having several megabytes of L4 dedicated to the GPU helps a lot.


Nah, Intel's drivers are actually decent, at least their Linux drivers (some Atoms still suck on Linux though), but their GPU itself has to be augmented with L4 cache just to be able to reach AMD's APUs that run on DDR3 in terms of graphical power. Making a driver is in long term better and cheaper than implementing expensive L4 on a chip just to boost it's graphical capabilities, they wouldn't be making their production process more expensive if they could just tweak the drivers and get the same thing.

Besides, remember Larrabee? I still chuckle when I remember that thing, it was supposed to compete with nVidia and ATI and instead flopped cause of embarrassingly bad performance and insane price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Sandy bridge and Brazos.


Wait, wasn't Westmere the first to bring on-chip GPU (as in Intel HD)? I'm pretty sure Clarkdale Pentiums had it.


----------



## ebduncan

Not sure what they have planned, but its going to be an APU.

Question is what sort of APU will it be.

as for the modern FX processors

The biggest disadvantage AMD has is unequal optimization compared to Intel in their products. Things are designed to run on Intel powered machines right now. Being compatible with AMD products is easy because they can support them with the older instruction set use. Most of the exclusive AMD instruction sets are simply not used by most programs. This is largely due to market share domination by Intel.

The FX cpus are actually pretty fast when they are properly optimized, as some of the linux guru's have found. There is some information floating about on this subject if you want to dive deeper.


----------



## NuclearPeace

I have a first generation Phenom and trust me the performance is nothing to write home about.

They arrived broken and when they were fixed they were still outclassed by the earlier Core 2 Quads.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Nah, Intel's drivers are actually decent, at least their Linux drivers (some Atoms still suck on Linux though), but their GPU itself has to be augmented with L4 cache just to be able to reach AMD's APUs that run on DDR3 in terms of graphical power. Making a driver is in long term better and cheaper than implementing expensive L4 on a chip just to boost it's graphical capabilities, they wouldn't be making their production process more expensive if they could just tweak the drivers and get the same thing.
> 
> ...
> 
> Wait, wasn't Westmere the first to bring on-chip GPU (as in Intel HD)? I'm pretty sure Clarkdale Pentiums had it.


Well, Atoms kinda suck in general.







Doesn't mean I don't want an octacore server system, ya know, for the lulz. It might be interesting to see how AMD iGPUs would perform with L4. I guess that's similar to what the Xbone is doing with the ESRAM, but that's a pain to code for according to every dev.

I don't think the original i7s, Extreme series or otherwise, had them, but i5s and below did.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Wait, wasn't Westmere the first to bring on-chip GPU (as in Intel HD)? I'm pretty sure Clarkdale Pentiums had it.


It was on package but not on die.


----------



## Cyrious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Wait, wasn't Westmere the first to bring on-chip GPU (as in Intel HD)? I'm pretty sure Clarkdale Pentiums had it.


Same physical package, but different die. The memory controller and the iGPU were on a different older process node die (45nm) than the CPU bit (32nm). IIRC it increased ram latency to somewhere between what 1366 Nehalem was doing and what P45 was doing.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> The FX cpus are actually pretty fast when they are properly optimized, as some of the linux guru's have found. There is some information floating about on this subject if you want to dive deeper.


Linux scheduler is much different compared to Windows scheduler, it was optimized for Bulldozer before that thing even came out (it took Microsoft nearly two years to do a half-arsed job patching their scheduler) ensuring much better resource utilization and saturation. Aside from that, modern instructions are ran on both Intel and AMD CPUs cause a vast majority of Linux software isn't compiled using Intel's compilers (remember the fuss about Intel crippling AMD and VIA CPUs?).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> It was on package but not on die.


Damn, I forgot that, been a while since I last read anything about Westmere.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Well, Atoms kinda suck in general.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean I don't want an octacore server system, ya know, for the lulz. It might be interesting to see how AMD iGPUs would perform with L4. I guess that's similar to what the Xbone is doing with the ESRAM, but that's a pain to code for according to every dev.


Oh yes they do. And AMD iGPUs would benefit from L3/L4 if AMD were to do it right, but they have a knack for doing it wrong.









As for XBone's eSRAM, it's a pain to code for cause it's tiny, only 32MB, would be a lot better and easier to code for if it were 64-128MB but then it would've been too expensive. This way it does speed up the bandwidth but devs need to watch it so they don't overflow it with data and fill it up too quickly, if I recall correctly what that one dev said.

Microsoft should've just went with GDDR5 instead and dropped that stupid Kinect, most people don't enjoy acting like escaped mental patients that talk with their TVs and jump around the room like chimpanzees.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Linux scheduler is much different compared to Windows scheduler


Linux has tons of schedulers. When you compile a kernel you have choices, and there are third party patches unofficially as well. You can make one too.


----------



## AngeloG.

Am I the only one who hates the idea of APU's? I want maximum performance from each component, an APU can't handle that. I want new CPUs not these annoying hybrids which are jack of all trades master of none.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> Am I the only one who hates the idea of APU's? I want maximum performance from each component, an APU can't handle that. I want new CPUs not these annoying hybrids which are jack of all trades master of none.


APUs are the future. When the software catch up we will gonna see huge improvement.


----------



## AngeloG.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> APUs are the future. When the software catch up we will gonna see huge improvement.


That's not true...


----------



## fateswarm

Meh. They're just a need for the mobile. The stationed computer will never die, it's just the most efficient solution when mobility is not required.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> The difference right now is that Intel iGPU still sucks (except *Iris Pro which is close to AMD's Radeon* but it's still nowhere to be seen on desktop) while AMD pulled ahead and sucks less.


define close because it only came close to 384SP Kaveri at low res with Kaveri running on slow DDR3. Only the EDRAM models managed to touch Kaveri in low res as long as Kaveri was on slow DDR3.

At high resolutions or if Iris Pro without EDRAM is used this changes entirely it is not at all unlikely that Kaveri with fast high latency memory will be 60% faster for a 512SP part. A good example is Bay trail even with the dual channel memory it has the graphics can't even put out half the frames the HD8330(128SP parts) put out.

Iris Pro is also incredibly inefficient for what it offers it pushes a mobile chip into 60W territory which albeit as much as a dGPU gives worse performance and only really usable at low resolutions. Then we get to our final problem which is that some games don't even run and bugs are very common. (Wolfenstein (NO) for example wouldn't even run on Intel HD3000 so I had to run it on 555m which is a no go on the go.
I didn't actually like the game because it discriminates against smart albeit a "wrong" group of people and gives a really twisted image)

Let's however not turn this into a Wolfenstein new order hate thread


Spoiler: What I thought about Wolfenstein the new order



let's just say the dialog is probably made by really stupid pro America anti European people with little knowledge about history. I mean even the winning part in the story 1935-1942 is completely wrong.
Guess this is what a genre turned into what first was about shooting nazi's in their evil lair and fighting 4 armed hitler turned into a game that stated that "all nazis are dumb", "The Jewishs people invented all the technology in the world, to get closer to god.", "Rationalism and god go together", "distance should be measured in miles".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> Not sure what they have planned, but its going to be an APU.
> 
> Question is what sort of APU will it be.
> 
> as for the modern FX processors
> 
> The biggest disadvantage AMD has is unequal optimization compared to Intel in their products. Things are designed to run on Intel powered machines right now. Being compatible with AMD products is easy because they can support them with the older instruction set use. Most of the exclusive AMD instruction sets are simply not used by most programs. This is largely due to market share domination by Intel.
> 
> The FX cpus are actually pretty fast when they are properly optimized, as some of the linux guru's have found. There is some information floating about on this subject if you want to dive deeper.


This goes so far that AMD's server process optimization guides state to not use Intel compiler because they will look for the genuine Intel string and cripple the gives instruction set if it isn't found.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> Am I the only one who hates the idea of APU's? I want maximum performance from each component, an APU can't handle that. I want new CPUs not these annoying hybrids which are jack of all trades master of none.


You're certainly not the only one but it is most likely lack of knowledge about the subject that driver most people in that way of thinking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> APUs are the future. When the software catch up we will gonna see huge improvement.


Exactly
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> That's not true...


APU13 event showcased various speedups trough HSA by mediatek(an ARM licensee), ARM and AMD those speedups were in excess of 5x actually if you go down to assembly the speedup was over 60x down to binary 130x. (those are the numbers I recall from the presenation don't take me up on it but I can assure you they were very high)

Clearly if the software support is here we will be in a entirely different playing field and it is infact the solution for when the single core perf comes to a complete standstill.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> Am I the only one who hates the idea of APU's? I want maximum performance from each component, an APU can't handle that. I want new CPUs not these annoying hybrids which are jack of all trades master of none.


Depends on the APU and how balanced it is. A10-7850K is crap, an overpriced hybrid with a slow CPU and a GPU that gets smacked around by a 7770 which can be paired with a 760K for nearly the same price. Athlon 5350 is decently balanced on the other hand, a 2GHz quad-core with 8400 graphics, and so is A8-7600 but it's nowhere to be found.

Anyway, for small form factor systems an APU with an actually decent iGPU would be a godsend, but current APUs are still crap in terms of graphical capability for something like that and the ones that are actually half-decent draw too much power to be put on a mITX motherboard. A8-7600 would rectify that with close to 7850K performance at a much lower TDP, I'm hoping Excavator brings much better iGPU to the table at the same TDP but I have a feeling that won't be the case.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> define close because it only came close to 384SP Kaveri at low res with Kaveri running on slow DDR3. Only the EDRAM models managed to touch Kaveri in low res as long as Kaveri was on slow DDR3.


Yeah, but older Intel HD couldn't even touch Kaveri in any graphical tasks. Hell, it was smacked around by budget APUs in graphically intensive tasks. Iris Pro managed to get close enough at lower resolutions but it's yet to catch up with it at 1080p. Still, something is better than nothing, maybe it pushes AMD to release an APU with an iGPU on-par with PS4's.


----------



## AngeloG.

@maarten12100 How will you cool a Titan inside a 4960?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> @maarten12100 How will you cool a Titan inside a 4960?


I meant a gpu doing the cpu tasks partially will greatly speedup the process. The apu analogy is no replacement for the dGPU just a way to speed up the cpu.


----------



## ebduncan

People are complaining that they don't want an APU? because it could be more powerful if separate components.

I guess you would also want a separate memory controller, south bridge, northbridge, cache, FPU, x86 as well then. Heck you might as well make everything on its own and have it take up an entire room.

Integration or SOC is the future. You certainly don't see people complaining about how the memory controller moved on die.


----------



## Alatar

There are some key differences between doing IMCs, IVRs, and doing iGPUs.

The thing is that a memory controller for example doesn't really benefit from the additional power budget gained by moving it off die. But a GPU does, and it benefits from it massively.

Sure you can do some neat tricks with memory access and iGPUs but the fact of the matter is that with iGPUs you're always going to have to do with a fraction of the power budget and transistor budget of a dedicated card. It doesn't matter if the memory and data transfer tricks massively boost some code, the pure grunt just isn't there for different applications.

So until GPUs stop needing more transistors, die space and power budget, iGPUs aren't the future when it comes to the high end. Maybe you can use them for other things while also using a dedicated GPU but igpu is not replacing discrete gpu for a long time.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

I don't think iGPUs can ever be the future of high-end. As power efficiency goes up, you can fit a better GPU in the same thermal envelope. This applies to 100W APUs as much as it does to 300W GPUs. However, they can become enough for a typical user, and they already are at this point.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Yeah, but older Intel HD couldn't even touch Kaveri in any graphical tasks. Hell, it was smacked around by budget APUs in graphically intensive tasks. Iris Pro managed to get close enough at lower resolutions but it's yet to catch up with it at 1080p. Still, something is better than nothing, maybe it pushes AMD to release an APU with an iGPU on-par with PS4's.


Well...

Quote:


> While based entirely on the aforementioned GCN architecture, the two Pitcairns aren't silicon-disabled GPUs from the Tahiti line. *Rather, Pitcairn has its own 212mm² die* that fits midway between the HD 79x0's 355mm² and HD 77x0's 123mm². Pitcairn, then, has been specifically designed for the upper-mid-range segment.


SOURCE

Too big. They can maybe fit Bonaire + two modules if they can shrink it down to a 20nm node, but I find it unlikely that they can do this cheaply and efficiently. Plus, don't forget the RAM bottleneck. Quad-channel DDR4 might handle it (effective clockspeed of 4266MHz and 256-bit bus I believe with 2133MHz DIMMs), but it would be expensive, possibly more than a flagship consumer i7. Doesn't mean I don't want it, and the PS4's launch price is being sold at a small profit despite the Pitcairn GPU + octacore Jaguar CPU + 8GB GDDR5, so it might be feasible on a new socket.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> There are some key differences between doing IMCs, IVRs, and doing iGPUs.
> 
> The thing is that a memory controller for example doesn't really benefit from the additional power budget gained by moving it off die. But a GPU does, and it benefits from it massively.
> 
> Sure you can do some neat tricks with memory access and iGPUs but the fact of the matter is that with iGPUs you're always going to have to do with a fraction of the power budget and transistor budget of a dedicated card. It doesn't matter if the memory and data transfer tricks massively boost some code, the pure grunt just isn't there for different applications.
> 
> So until GPUs stop needing more transistors, die space and power budget, iGPUs aren't the future when it comes to the high end. Maybe you can use them for other things while also using a dedicated GPU but igpu is not replacing discrete gpu for a long time.


the solution is quite obvious move the gpu out again but keep it on the same package have the 2 pieces of silicon run into a bulge of HBM between it.
You could put 2 gigantic dies on a package with a HBM stack in the middle. The ultimate all in one.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Phenom I was terrible, late, didn't reach high enough clocks and in general was a bad competitor for the core 2s.


Phenom I was late because of AMD's Foundry not getting enough money. Do to the Pentium 4 rebates AMD lost significant ground in foundry pay. 65nm SOI if you go by before Pentium 4 was going to be FUSI (Gate-Last) FDSOI but they couldn't fund that research after Pentium 4. To save costs they daisy chained off IBM instead of bringing something new to semiconductors.

0277.PDF 206k .PDF file


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> There are some key differences between doing IMCs, IVRs, and doing iGPUs.
> 
> The thing is that a memory controller for example doesn't really benefit from the additional power budget gained by moving it off die. But a GPU does, and it benefits from it massively.
> 
> Sure you can do some neat tricks with memory access and iGPUs but the fact of the matter is that with iGPUs you're always going to have to do with a fraction of the power budget and transistor budget of a dedicated card. It doesn't matter if the memory and data transfer tricks massively boost some code, the pure grunt just isn't there for different applications.
> 
> So until GPUs stop needing more transistors, die space and power budget, iGPUs aren't the future when it comes to the high end. Maybe you can use them for other things while also using a dedicated GPU but igpu is not replacing discrete gpu for a long time.


There will always be a market for discrete GPUs but that is going to shrink rapidly going forward. With High Bandwidth Memory the iGPU starts to eat away at the traditional low end GPUs upto USD 100. Imagine a AMD 2016 APU manufactured at 14 FINFET with 4 next gen x86-64 cores, 1024 GCN 2.0 cores and connected to a HBM stack with 100+ Gb/s . Such a product kills the 100 - 120 sq mm dGPU which sells for USD 100. That means a major chunk of sales in dGPU market is gone.

In the desktop market you have atleast 3 tiers above USD 100 - GK106, GK104, GK110. In the mobile market you have only two of them due to TDP constraints.So this means in the notebook market the cannibilization would be even worse. In both cases this is a problem for Nvidia as they are the market leader with 65% in desktop and notebook dGPUs. By late 2016 the dGPU market could be a fraction of what it is now.


----------



## AngeloG.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I meant a gpu doing the cpu tasks partially will greatly speedup the process. The apu analogy is no replacement for the dGPU just a way to speed up the cpu.


That was my only point, that APU cannot replace discrete GPU-CPU at present.


----------



## ebduncan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> There are some key differences between doing IMCs, IVRs, and doing iGPUs.
> 
> The thing is that a memory controller for example doesn't really benefit from the additional power budget gained by moving it off die. But a GPU does, and it benefits from it massively.
> 
> Sure you can do some neat tricks with memory access and iGPUs but the fact of the matter is that with iGPUs you're always going to have to do with a fraction of the power budget and transistor budget of a dedicated card. It doesn't matter if the memory and data transfer tricks massively boost some code, the pure grunt just isn't there for different applications.
> 
> So until GPUs stop needing more transistors, die space and power budget, iGPUs aren't the future when it comes to the high end. Maybe you can use them for other things while also using a dedicated GPU but igpu is not replacing discrete gpu for a long time.


Just because it is integrated doesn't mean it cannot have a higher power budget or die space. Look at the ps4 or xbox one for example. They could make a 300 watt socket-able part that includes a discrete gpu power and a traditional cpu. The power delivery and memory can be housed on the motherboard.

I am not saying the market will trend this way, but its entirely possible. We could see a push in that direction if steam machines do well. Simply stating that current IGPU's are slow compared to their discrete counter parts is misleading. That's comparing apples to oranges, as they are not designed currently to replace the high end discrete cards.


----------



## amd-dude

It's a new rugged cpu, made to withstand falls from space.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

One of the user comments on the wccftech article is this:
Quote:


> It's an APU announcement. if you use chrome's element viewer and look at the javascript files, you see this:
> 
> $(this).on('finish.countdown', function(event) {
> $(this).addClass('hidden');
> $(this).parent().html('
> 
> *AMD\'s most advanced APU ever.
> Welcome to Earth*
> 
> ');


Then, a later user reply states this:
Quote:


> They changed it to:
> 
> $(this).on('finish.countdown', function(event) {
> $(this).addClass('hidden');
> $(this).parent().html('
> 
> *Don't be so impatient*
> 
> ');


I took a screenshot. Confirm the js change.


----------



## Lostcause

I posted this image earlier.

I agree it is an APU.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> Just because it is integrated doesn't mean it cannot have a higher power budget or die space. Look at the ps4 or xbox one for example. They could make a 300 watt socket-able part that includes a discrete gpu power and a traditional cpu. The power delivery and memory can be housed on the motherboard.


Questions:


How are you going to power it? You'd need an 8-pin socket minimum stock, to say nothing of overclocking.
How are you going to cool it? Even with something beefy, like a dual-tower air cooler, you're going to have temperature issues under loads.
How good or bad will yields be? Look at GK110 early on. It had tons of issues because it had such a big die. The Xbone and PS4 aren't using full Bonaire or Pitcairn, respectively; two GCN cores are disabled on each. That may or may not be due to yields though.
Who is the target audience? Most people who see APU think low-end crap, and in general, this is true: systems that have APUs tend to be bad. AMD can't suddenly drop the APU label and sell a hexacore or octacore chip at i7 prices on a huge socket and with a huge TDP without some sort of explanation.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> That was my only point, that APU cannot replace discrete GPU-CPU at present.


Sure without the software it can't but that would be like saying the V2 wasn't build to eventually go to the moon while that was actually the intention of the designers.

APUs will be this way until interconnects get better because the unified memory access is needed for the programming to even be possible. No use in being stuck on today.


----------



## omari79

a new FX


----------



## yawa

It's a surprise high end Excavator variant.

Because if it isn't, I'm taking the $1000 I just won on a scratch ticket and buying an Intel MOBO and processor, instead of the 4K monitor I was going to grab next week with the winnings.

Fate wouldn't be that cruel to Me.

Now off to finish my walk and then binge on Dark Souls 2.


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> It's a surprise high end Excavator variant.
> 
> Because if it isn't, I'm taking the $1000 I just won on a scratch ticket and buying an Intel MOBO and processor, instead of the 4K monitor I was going to grab next week with the winnings.
> 
> Fate wouldn't be that cruel to Me.
> 
> Now off to finish my walk and then binge on Dark Souls 2.


You win $1000 on a scratch ticket and think fate is being cruel to you?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> It's a surprise high end Excavator variant.
> 
> Because if it isn't, I'm taking the $1000 I just won on a scratch ticket and buying an Intel MOBO and processor, instead of the 4K monitor I was going to grab next week with the winnings.
> 
> Fate wouldn't be that cruel to Me.
> 
> Now off to finish my walk and then binge on Dark Souls 2.


Do save the $1000 for the 6c/12t 5820K + mobo + DDR4


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> You win $1000 on a scratch ticket and think fate is being cruel to you?


Lawls true. Actually I've done really well the last two years on these things. Since the $30 tickets have come to our state I've spent about $600 but won about $4500.

I've literally been keeping poverty at bay with the power of the Massachusetts State Lottery commission.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Do save the $1000 for the 6c/12t 5820K + mobo + DDR4


I am the closest thing this board has to an Anti-You as far as hardware goes. I am the Anti-Alatar.

I am running a 7850k with a 290X for goodness sake. Suffice to say, the above will never happen, largely because who are you kidding? We both know that $1000 will not be enough for the i7 5820 by itself, much less with a motherboard and ram.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> We both know that $1000 will not be enough for the i7 5820 by itself, much less with a motherboard and ram.


$1000.00 is about right for the xx20k with a mobo, the RAM might be squeezing it.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> You win $1000 on a scratch ticket and think fate is being cruel to you?


#FirstWorldProblems









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I am the closest thing this board has to an Anti-You as far as hardware goes. I am the Anti-Alatar.
> 
> I am running a 7850k with a 290X for goodness sake. Suffice to say, the above will never happen, largely because who are you kidding? We both know that $1000 will not be enough for the i7 5820 by itself, much less with a motherboard and ram.


That sounds so much more dramatic than it actually is.









The 5820k should be ~$400, the 5930k ~$600, and the 5960X ~$1000 assuming Intel doesn't change the pricing on those tiers. $350 gets you a decent-at-worst motherboard, and the rest can be dumped into 16GB or 32GB of DDR4. I'm not sure how expensive DDR4 will be at launch, but "gold-plated limo" is a good start.


----------



## AngeloG.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Sure without the software it can't but that would be like saying the V2 wasn't build to eventually go to the moon while that was actually the intention of the designers.
> 
> APUs will be this way until interconnects get better because the unified memory access is needed for the programming to even be possible. No use in being stuck on today.


What software? There will be a magic software program that will make discrete GPU's obsolete with lower power APU's?


----------



## Alatar

The 5820K is supposed to be hitting the $350 price point







It's the lowest end HW-E part.


----------



## ebduncan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 
> How are you going to power it? You'd need an 8-pin socket minimum stock, to say nothing of overclocking.
> How are you going to cool it? Even with something beefy, like a dual-tower air cooler, you're going to have temperature issues under loads.
> How good or bad will yields be? Look at GK110 early on. It had tons of issues because it had such a big die. The Xbone and PS4 aren't using full Bonaire or Pitcairn, respectively; two GCN cores are disabled on each. That may or may not be due to yields though.
> Who is the target audience? Most people who see APU think low-end crap, and in general, this is true: systems that have APUs tend to be bad. AMD can't suddenly drop the APU label and sell a hexacore or octacore chip at i7 prices on a huge socket and with a huge TDP without some sort of explanation.


1. the motherboard... just like a the PCB of a graphics card..., they can add power connectors...
2. Same way you cool a gpu, with a heat sink, how is cooling a 300 watt APU any different than cooling a 300 watt gpu? they are the same
3. There are ways to ensure good yields. I won't go into that here.
4. Like I said before they could do it, doesn't mean the market will want it. Then I referenced if steam machines do well, you could see a push for something like this. APU's are not low end, it just defined by Amd differently. Intel chips are the same thing, as they have a integrated video built in as well, but I guess the 4770k is low end because it has a on die graphics solution.


----------



## Seronx

@yawa ; The ifitcanreachspace is the mobile "Kaveri" APU launch but it doesn't mean that it is the only thing launching.

General availability product launches by the end of Computex:
Kaveri
Beema
Mullins

We might get news about;
The two other semi-customs that AMD is currently working on.
The 16-core/8-module CPU with 2 HT Links / 2 HT/PCIe Links / 1 PCIe Link.
Carrizo APU
etc


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> It's a surprise high end Excavator variant.
> 
> Because if it isn't, I'm taking the $1000 I just won on a scratch ticket and buying an Intel MOBO and processor, instead of the 4K monitor I was going to grab next week with the winnings.
> 
> Fate wouldn't be that cruel to Me.
> 
> Now off to finish my walk and then binge on Dark Souls 2.


They will probably showcase it but launch is unlikely, very unlikely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngeloG.*
> 
> What software? There will be a magic software program that will make discrete GPU's obsolete with lower power APU's?


HSA doesn't exist for dGPUs simply because there is no unified memory space all a dGPU can run is OpenCL workloads because those are just outsourcing rather than close co-operation.
Don't be blinded by flops numbers dGPUs have over iGPUs because it is all about how efficiently they can be used in this case at cpu tasks. HSA will give better cpu performance and save power and it is the next step. (Single core -> Multi core -> HSA)


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Snip. Excuse my stupidness


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> HSA doesn't exist for dGPUs simply because there is no unified memory space all a dGPU can run is OpenCL workloads because those are just outsourcing rather than close co-operation.


HSA and hQ exists for dGPUs but hUMA does not exist *yet*.

AMD has several proprietary PCIe 3.0 extensions coming up that might pop up as ECN(Engineering Change Notice)s for future PCIe versions. These extensions increase the depth and ability of the dGPU to do HSA, hQ, and hUMA with minimal latency.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> HSA and hQ exists for dGPUs but hUMA *will* not exist *ever*.


Fix'd. I find it highly unlikely that the benefits of having a PCIe card share system memory with the CPU will outweigh the drawbacks, namely huge amounts of latency.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The 5820K is supposed to be hitting the $350 price point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the lowest end HW-E part.


it won't

intel isn't going to undercut their quad core sales. the 5820k is a hexcore; guarenteed it will clock in at $600 like their other baseline hexcores. they're pushing the whole princing up a step. it will be 600-1000-1200

they won't compete against their existing products... and their existing products set the min for this lineup.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> it won't
> 
> intel isn't going to undercut their quad core sales. the 5820k is a hexcore; guarenteed it will clock in at $600 like their other baseline hexcores. they're pushing the whole princing up a step. it will be 600-1000-1200
> 
> they won't compete against their existing products... and their existing products set the min for this lineup.


No, it will. There is absolutely no reason for them to bump up the 5930k's price, as that is still just six cores. Plus, the 5820k has a gimped PCIe bus, so there actually is a reason to go for the higher-end model. Don't forget that X99 motherboards will be much more expensive than even Z97 and that DDR4 prices will be outrageous, to say the least, at launch. Yes, they will cut into their flagship i7 + Z#7 sales, but now their enthusiast platform is actually reasonably cheap for real gains over their consumer platform and they're still making a sale in the end.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> No, it will. There is absolutely no reason for them to bump up the 5930k's price, as that is still just six cores. Plus, the 5820k has a gimped PCIe bus, so there actually is a reason to go for the higher-end model. Don't forget that X99 motherboards will be much more expensive than even Z97 and that DDR4 prices will be outrageous, to say the least, at launch. Yes, they will cut into their flagship i7 + Z#7 sales, but now their enthusiast platform is actually reasonably cheap for real gains over their consumer platform and they're still making a sale in the end.


you need to get more cynical.

seriously.

i won't believe it till i see it. they won't undercut their existing products. they haven't done it yet with ANY release in the last... hell... 7 or 8 years now... they won't start now. you can bank on the 8 core being more expensive then the existing hex cores... which means it will be like $1200 or so.


----------



## Seronx

DDR4 is currently about ~2x to ~4x the price of DDR3.

Samsung 16GB DDR3 1600 MHz 11CAS ECC Registered: $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147257

Kingston 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz 13CAS ECC Registered: $196.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239756

Samsung 16GB DDR4 2133 MHz 15CAS ECC Registered: $374.08(Retail) - $776.88(Preorder Price Hike)
http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?rid=55&itemid=1475757787&partno=M393A2G40DB0-CPB0
http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/NEG69298515S778836N1398

Once DDR4 systems hit the market the price will drop like a man who messed with a mobster boss. (Like a rock in a lake, kapeesh!)

I'm expecting a memory cartel so I don't know if it will drop as fast as I am hoping.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Fix'd. I find it highly unlikely that the benefits of having a PCIe card share system memory with the CPU will outweigh the drawbacks, namely huge amounts of latency.


Having a unified address space allows for programmer simplicity and some code footprint shrinking which reduces cycle contention.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Plus, the 5820k has a gimped PCIe bus, so there actually is a reason to go for the higher-end model.


That is the exact reason that I will be going 5830k instead of 5820k (If I do in fact jump in at x99)


----------



## Seronx

I would wait a couple months just to see if there would be a fixable errata. Never purchase first day.. never!


----------



## ozlay

a 5 ghz athlon cpu for FM2+


----------



## aweir

My best guess is either a Steamroller-based FX is to be announced, or a slower FX cpu possibly with a GPU thrown in. Or in other words, an 8 core APU, but of course probably not based on steamroller or anything remotely fast enough to be good for either computing, or gaming. :-/


----------



## ronal

I think AMD decided to speed things up and will be releasing the Carizzo APU.


----------



## Seronx

Just food for thought:

Bulldozer;
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Piledriver;
1(x)h -> APU
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Piledriver+;
1(x)h -> APU
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Steamroller;
3(x)h-> APU

Excavator;
6(x)h -> APU
5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Excavator+;
6(x)h -> APU
5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I think AMD decided to speed things up and will be releasing the Carizzo APU.


Carrizo's early appearance will be Q4 2014, if not it will be on time with Q1 2015 or late with a Q2 2015 GA launch.

GA = general availability


----------



## PiOfPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Just food for thought:
> 
> Bulldozer;
> 0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
> 
> Piledriver;
> 1(x)h -> APU
> 0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
> 
> Piledriver+;
> 1(x)h -> APU
> 0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
> 
> Steamroller;
> 3(x)h-> APU
> 
> Excavator;
> 6(x)h -> APU
> 5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
> 
> Excavator+;
> 6(x)h -> APU
> 5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
> Carrizo's early appearance will be Q4 2014, if not it will be on time with Q1 2015 or late with a Q2 2015 GA launch.
> 
> GA = general availability


If XV APUs and CPUs are going to be released at approximately the same time, why are they different families of cores? Or, same question with a slightly different twist, why did Piledriver APUs get 1(x)h while Vishera was still 0?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiOfPie*
> 
> If XV APUs and CPUs are going to be released at approximately the same time, why are they different families of cores?


All the high-performance cores are part of the 15h family but every major SKU is a different model.

If you include the cancelled products you get this:

Bulldozer;
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Piledriver;
1(x)h -> APU
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU
2(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU (No Piledriver+ version / Cancelled)

Piledriver+;
1(x)h -> APU
0(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU (Piledriver+ version replaces Steamroller version)

Steamroller;
3(x)h-> APU (28-nm SHP had enough performance to stop gap for 6(x)h and uses the same tools with 20-nm LPM)*
4(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU (Cancelled)

Excavator;
6(x)h -> APU
5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

Excavator+;
6(x)h -> APU
5(x)h -> FX / Opteron CPU

*Build up the FEOL macros for both 28-nm SHP and 20-nm LPM then connect to relevant BEOL macros. Instant performance boost and just requires a change in the BEOL and a direct shrink of the FEOL. This requires less research and development man hours as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiOfPie*
> 
> Or, same question with a slightly different twist, why did Piledriver APUs get 1(x)h while Vishera was still 0?


Different BIOS and Kernel optimizations means that they are different models in turn making them different products. It is a little more in depth than that also same die means same model family.


----------



## SandGlass

Edit: If they launch an overpriced laptop with a 17" screen and a uber thick profile, they can officially quit, now.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> 
> Edit: If they launch an overpriced laptop with a 17" screen and a uber thick profile, they can officially quit, now.


So they can do a product so advanced that the only way to do it justice is to launch it from space...yet they cant do DX9 frame pacing.


----------



## Dyaems

R9 295x4 for only 3000usd


----------



## ozlay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> R9 295x4 for only 3000usd


yay more then 110% faster then the titanZ for the same price


----------



## Milestailsprowe

FX Apu on a itx board and I'm there


----------



## Alvarado

Probably posted, but still!


----------



## Sgt Bilko

I'm just going to take a wild guess here and say Steamroller FX 8 core APU.

Because why the hell not?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> So they can do a product so advanced that the only way to do it justice is to launch it from space...yet they cant do DX9 frame pacing.


You have a DX9 game that a single card can't run?


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> I dont understand.
> 
> If it were 16 cores i could use it for VM's


I was gonna say it sure sounds like you have an awfully specific use there.


----------



## revro

just another apu that nobody needs

and now stone me









do real CPUs


----------



## Bloodbath

I hope it's something good that can finally put the screws to Intel.


----------



## imran27

For most of us who care about performance, APU is not for us as if now, until HSA is adopted by some big software cos...

The chip probably might be a 6M/8M APU with quad-DDR3 support or probably quad-DDR4 (very unlikely) or a some product with unified GDDR5 memory for CPU & GPU for laptop & related markets...my guess


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> just another apu that nobody needs
> 
> and now stone me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do real CPUs


Ironic how those 'APUs no one needs' are faster than your processor


----------



## imran27

With HSA an APU will bring every Intel processor to shame...

See what happened in Open Office Calc HSA benchmarks, Intel and AMD both used processors that had iGPU but still AMD APU won by a huge margin due to HSA.

If HSA gets adopted by Microsoft and Apple then that will be the push AMD needs for their HSA and APU...

Till then pure CPU cores are more than enough...even if the new launch is an APU it should be a 6C or 8C APU so that if someone decides to use dGPU they still have the capability to drive those dGPU's...


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Ironic how those 'APUs no one needs' are faster than your processor


as long as it gets me 50avg/35min fps in bf3 mp @1440p it doesnt matter, besides ever heard of haswell e

anyway, if amd cant get customers to see what they want them to see, it will always be nah
so if amd focused on cpus instead of chasing chimeras nobody wants, i would welcome it. but hey they are probably trying to educate customers as microsoft tried and failed with its win8 aka "what supposed to be win7 sp2"

PS: full disclosure, i had 12 years ati cards and only went with nvidia cause of AC3 code.

best
revro


----------



## fateswarm

I wouldn't laugh at his processor. It's still pretty good.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I wouldn't laugh at his processor. It's still pretty good.


If it does what you need it to then there is nothing wrong with it.

Will be waiting to see what AMD bring forth from this though, if it's Carrizo then i might build another HTPC


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> as long as it gets me 50avg/35min fps in bf3 mp @1440p it doesnt matter, besides ever heard of haswell e
> 
> anyway, if amd cant get customers to see what they want them to see, it will always be nah
> so if amd focused on cpus instead of chasing chimeras nobody wants, i would welcome it. but hey they are probably trying to educate customers as microsoft tried and failed with its win8 aka "what supposed to be win7 sp2"
> 
> PS: full disclosure, i had 12 years ati cards and only went with nvidia cause of AC3 code.
> 
> best
> revro


50 average and 35 minimum in an FPS? Gross. Still, that's pretty impressive for a CPU that old running 1440p.

Can you tell me why you are so resistant to the idea of an APU? Will you buy AMD FX or Intel X79/X99 only from now on? Intel's consumer chips are ALL APUs, but they aren't marketed as such. You are, from what I can discern from this post, irrationally opposed to AMD's APUs because they aren't referred to as something like "HSA CPUs."

Not really sure how that's relevant, but it's okay; I don't think you're a fanboy.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imran27*
> 
> With HSA an APU will bring every Intel processor to shame...
> 
> See what happened in Open Office Calc HSA benchmarks, Intel and AMD both used processors that had iGPU but still AMD APU won by a huge margin due to HSA.
> 
> If HSA gets adopted by Microsoft and Apple then that will be the push AMD needs for their HSA and APU...
> 
> Till then pure CPU cores are more than enough...even if the new launch is an APU it should be a 6C or 8C APU so that if someone decides to use dGPU they still have the capability to drive those dGPU's...


Don't forget things like singlethreaded performance, multithreaded performance, cache latency... AMD FX is excellent in heavily multithreaded integer tasks. Everything else? Tied by an i5 and smashed by an i7. All HSA will do is allow GPGPU computing with no specialized hardware.

Intel could back HSA if they wanted. It would not be difficult at all.

IF. Given Intel's shady business practices in the past, and that 75+% of PCs are Wintel, I doubt it. Given Apple's exclusive use of Intel since they dropped PowerPC, I doubt that too. Linux? Yeah, that's more likely.

Problem: if the only HSA chips available are underpowered, then why would devs develop for them? Even worse, if AMD goes back to traditional CPUs, then suddenly the only thing to develop for is Kaveri. What's the point? We need both hardware and software to push this, otherwise it won't happen. Also, more cores != better GPU driving capability. If the CPU is a bottleneck because more cores are needed, sure. But in general, the GPU will be a bottleneck if you have a reasonably fast quad-core. Things like the PCIe bus and latency can also be problematic, totally independent of the CPU.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stormscion*
> 
> FX APU
> 
> CPU
> 8 core steamroller arch
> 
> GPU
> 16 compute units hawai arch based
> 
> MC
> quad channel memory u tp 2133 mhz
> 
> TDP
> 150w


Dreams can come true...you know you've got to have them, you know you've got to be strong.


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 50 average and 35 minimum in an FPS? Gross. Still, that's pretty impressive for a CPU that old running 1440p.
> 
> Can you tell me why you are so resistant to the idea of an APU? Will you buy AMD FX or Intel X79/X99 only from now on? Intel's consumer chips are ALL APUs, but they aren't marketed as such. You are, from what I can discern from this post, irrationally opposed to AMD's APUs because they aren't referred to as something like "HSA CPUs."
> 
> Not really sure how that's relevant, but it's okay; I don't think you're a fanboy.


hmm I could also oc the q9550 to 3.8-4ghz if only i had 1066 ddr2 and not the 800mhz ones ...
anyway I want to have the choice for my gpu, as with apu i would be locked down. i have no problem with amd, i find 8350 intriguing, but as i said there is not much freedom there and for 80-100eur more i have 4820k

I do plan to go with 5820k, I did waited now a year as 4930k was not an 8core, but now with SC DFM, I will need new cpu anyway, so why not go with x99 as its a new socket and has ddr4. altogether i will wait another 6 months after release on one side to make sure i dont get some dud motherboard ... nor that i might miss on a cheaper 8core that might be released 6 months later


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> anyway I want to have the choice for my gpu, as with apu i would be locked down.










Why would you be locked down? You do realize that you can run four-way crossfire (assuming any FM2+ motherboards support it) 290Xs, right? By that logic, people with consumer i7s or i5s are locked down because they must use Intel's iGPU. If you want Steamroller, you get an APU, just like if you want Haswell, you get an APU, albeit one not labeled as such.


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you be locked down? You do realize that you can run four-way crossfire (assuming any FM2+ motherboards support it) 290Xs, right? By that logic, people with consumer i7s or i5s are locked down because they must use Intel's iGPU. If you want Steamroller, you get an APU, just like if you want Haswell, you get an APU, albeit one not labeled as such.


here lies the problem amd is experiencing. they are pushing something new, but its something most people dont need. people even me have been indoctrinated, and we wont see reason to change something that works. i always had cpu+gpu, why think out of the box









the apus are not future, because you cant get your customers to see them as such


----------



## CBZ323

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> PS: full disclosure, i had 12 years ati cards and only went with nvidia cause of AC3 code.


Wow AC3 code? that must have been a disappointment.


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CBZ323*
> 
> Wow AC3 code? that must have been a disappointment.


havent got to it







been playing the repetitive AC1 for 3 years now, am somewhere around 80-85% of game ... please tell me the next games are not so repetitive?







please please

on topic, i am sad to say, but amd is really hyping what cant be hyped. honestly i dont think there are enough people to care for their apus, to make them even profitable, yeah i know consoles, but i mean the general population


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> the apus are not future, because you cant get your customers to see them as such


Steam, as in the gaming platform, as in the people who care about performance more (in general), would like to disagree. When a gaming service of all possible services shows one out of six people using Intel iGPUs and that number increasing, then yes, APUs seem to be the future. That's ignoring the fact that Intel ships twice as many GPUs as AMD and Nvidia _combined._ The only reason I'm not taking AMD APUs into account is because those numbers aren't distinguishing between discrete and integrated graphics. Two-thirds of AMD CPUs shipped do have integrated graphics, so in total, I estimate that approximately 25% of Steam users are running integrated graphics. In general? Easily two-thirds or higher.


----------



## Offler

In general APUs are great solutions for laptops and HTPCs. When I found out that even first generation APU has processing power as Core 2 Quad combined with lets say HD 67x0 then It was the cost/effective solution i have seen in last few years.


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Steam, as in the gaming platform, as in the people who care about performance more (in general), would like to disagree. When a gaming service of all possible services shows one out of six people using Intel iGPUs and that number increasing, then yes, APUs seem to be the future. That's ignoring the fact that Intel ships twice as many GPUs as AMD and Nvidia _combined._ The only reason I'm not taking AMD APUs into account is because those numbers aren't distinguishing between discrete and integrated graphics. Two-thirds of AMD CPUs shipped do have integrated graphics, so in total, I estimate that approximately 25% of Steam users are running integrated graphics. In general? Easily two-thirds or higher.


and how exactly does the igpu in steam survey work? does steam count igpu even when a separate gpu is used?


----------



## CBZ323

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> havent got to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> been playing the repetitive AC1 for 3 years now, am somewhere around 80-85% of game ... please tell me the next games are not so repetitive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please please
> 
> on topic, i am sad to say, but amd is really hyping what cant be hyped. honestly i dont think there are enough people to care for their apus, to make them even profitable, yeah i know consoles, but i mean the general population


In my opinion AC2 and Brotherhood are the best (judging them at the time of their release standards) , with Black flag coming close too.

APUs have a bright future but it's not the enthusiast that they cater. For us (at least for me) they have nothing to offer, but for many they offer all they need. Decent graphics with decent CPU performance for an All in one or even a laptop is what the majority of people need. Think of the B2B, where all those corporate laptops are running old CPUs.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> and how exactly does the igpu in steam survey work? does steam count igpu even when a separate gpu is used?


It's counting the GPUs in use (although not too well, since my "primary" GPU has 1024MB of VRAM). If it weren't, then Intel would almost certainly be dominating, since the alternative to them is their enthusiast platform (expensive) or AMD (who sells far fewer CPUs).


----------



## PirateZ

If it's an APU then that would be of no use to me.


----------



## Rickyyy369

Another AMD countdown has been posted for 4 hours after the original one.

https://ad.moontoast.com/552fa6aa-e1bd-11e3-bc12-123139027524

This one seems definitely to be for mobile Kaveri since its showing pictures of the Kaveri river on a laptop screen. Perhaps the first countdown is for something else?


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> here lies the problem amd is experiencing. *they are pushing something new, but its something most people dont need*. people even me have been indoctrinated, and we wont see reason to change something that works. i always had cpu+gpu, why think out of the box


Maybe you should get out of that box of yours.







I upgraded about 200 computers in the past year, do you want to know who "most people" are? Those who use their PC for browsing, listening to music, checking Facebook, playing flash games, watching videos, looking for recipes, reading news, etc.

Out of those ~200 computers, ~80 were oldtimers running Socket A/754/478/495 processors that barely even run Firefox nowadays, using GPUs that were HTPC cards 12 years ago and struggle with 720p video playback. Grandma PCs basically, but by the time that thing turns on grandma will die of old age so I get it to "make it faster". Those people don't need a dedicated graphics card, they need something that produces image on the screen and generally use old CRT monitors, and since a $80 APU is cheaper than a $80 CPU + $40 graphics people decide for an APU-based system or one with Intel HD. I built 15 Kabini systems since AM1 came out for general use, not for use as HTPCs like what I use mine for, only because they are cheaper.

Out of the other ~120 systems about ~50 of them are using newer processors, Core 2/Athlon II generation with on-board graphics, another ~20 are using dedicated HTPC cards cause there are no on-board graphics. Those also choose on-chip graphics upon full system upgrade, generally opting for high-end Pentiums/A8 or low-end i3s/A10, younger people want a lot more speed than grandmas, mothers generally get Celerons or A4 APUs. About ~50 are using dedicated graphics cards for gaming, opting for dGPUs and performance processors. Finally, only about ~10 people will actually opt for an APU for gaming due to form factor so I get to play with high-end APUs then, those guys are rare though. The last ~50 guys actually DO need dGPUs, the rest will have to upgrade the entire system anyway since it gets old in every way by the time it ends up on my worktable.

Basically, about 70-75% of people are those who don't give a damn about CPUs/APUs/GPUs or differences between them, they just want to have an image on their monitor for as little money as possible. iGPUs delivers images to their monitors and come bundled with CPUs (free), so I build systems with iGPUs for them. The other 25-30% of the market can have dGPUs, and I install them on demand.

You need a dGPU instead of an all-in-one package, I get that and I respect that, I also need a dGPU in my desktop. But don't go telling me that "most people don't need an APU" cause assembling systems on demand without dedicated graphics are 3/4 of my work, even I use an APU for a HTPC/web browsing machine since I don't need a gaming card to play a movie or read my emails.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Another AMD countdown has been posted for 4 hours after the original one.
> 
> https://ad.moontoast.com/552fa6aa-e1bd-11e3-bc12-123139027524


I think this one guy is onto something...
Quote:


> "Uh... oreo-flavoured CPUs?"


Put the CPU into the board, bake it on 1.5V for 2 years and when it's done, get some Oreo-flavored goodness to chew on while upgrading.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

^^ Agreed. Most users have no need for a dGPU, but can certainly take advantage of a APU.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Another AMD countdown has been posted for 4 hours after the original one.
> 
> https://ad.moontoast.com/552fa6aa-e1bd-11e3-bc12-123139027524
> 
> This one seems definitely to be for mobile Kaveri since its showing pictures of the Kaveri river on a laptop screen. Perhaps the first countdown is for something else?


I hope so that would mean they are infact gonna show Carrizo like they did with Kaveri last year. Plz Plz


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> This one seems definitely to be for mobile Kaveri since its showing pictures of the Kaveri river on a laptop screen. Perhaps the first countdown is for something else?


Subtle. Very subtle. Anyway, I called it, so all you guys need to pay up!







So what does that mean for the original countdown? Carrizo or Puma (and Mullins, I think?)?


----------



## Rickyyy369

This was the official tweet posted by AMD 2 hours ago with the new countdown:

https://twitter.com/AMD/status/473487234532773891
Quote:


> Something SMALL is coming again and it's BIG news! Can you guess what's next? Click for a hint! #AMDReveal http://t.co/5LqXjGEWHT
> 
> - AMD (@AMD)
> 
> 
> 
> June 2, 2014
Click to expand...


----------



## DapperDan795

Although I recently switched to Intel all this news is still super exciting. I would love to see AMD come out with something just amazing for enthusiasts.


----------



## maarten12100

So now Mullins/Beema is already launched, Kaveri mobile is now announced so I'm quite sure Excavator in Carrizo will indeed make an appearance let's hope they play something more intense than Devil may cry.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD*
> Something SMALL is coming again and it's BIG news! Can you guess what's next?


AMD's market share? Their CPUs' IPC? There's too many possibilities to guess at...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> AMD's market share? Their CPUs' IPC? There's too many possibilities to guess at...


20% of the gpu and 25% of the cpu market is low?
Instructions per cycle only tell half the story if it could clock high and I agree it has neither but that should be fixed once Keller's designs start rolling. I mean we are talking about the lead engineer on cyclone.

They mean as in core size/die size Beema/Mullins were small dies and so will Kaveri be.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> 20% of the gpu and 25% of the cpu market is low?


When it's a two-horse race in each of the respective markets (Intel vs. AMD in CPUs, NVIDIA vs. AMD in discrete GPUs), one would have to say yes.

That said, AMD's market share is actually 17% for x86 CPUs and 35% for discrete GPUs as of Q1 2014.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

AMD is going to announce a tiny new console that can play both XB1 and PS4 games as well as Steam.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> When it's a two-horse race in each of the respective markets (Intel vs. AMD in CPUs, NVIDIA vs. AMD in discrete GPUs), one would have to say yes.


First of all, there's VIA.







Second, 20% total GPUs != 20% dGPUs. Intel is the largest GPU maker in the world, something we seem to keep forgetting. 35% discrete GPUs sounds better.


----------



## fateswarm

After I saw an i5 lowbie haswell properly doing on the fly madVR and SVP conversion to 60FPS I realized Intel has become a GPU dealer for the low/mid end.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Another AMD countdown has been posted for 4 hours after the original one.
> 
> https://ad.moontoast.com/552fa6aa-e1bd-11e3-bc12-123139027524
> 
> This one seems definitely to be for mobile Kaveri since its showing pictures of the Kaveri river on a laptop screen. Perhaps the first countdown is for something else?


Hmm. It shows a lot of pics from India. Codename I presume.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Hmm. It shows a lot of pics from India. Codename I presume.


I wonder why?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wikipedia*
> 
> The Kaveri, also spelled Cauvery in English, is a large Indian river.


Oh, that might explain things.


----------



## Titanox

http://wccftech.com/amd-mobile-kaveri-crystal-series-leaked/

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Allegedly-Preparing-New-Mobile-Kaveri-APUs-Including-Flagship-FX-7600P

What's with the absurd expectations?


----------



## andyboy

if only we can combine AMD iGPU with intel CPU to make the ultimate APU.

I can't stand AMD processors using 30% cpu just to watch a youtube video.


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andyboy*
> 
> if only we can combine AMD iGPU with intel CPU to make the ultimate APU.
> 
> I can't stand AMD processors using 30% cpu just to watch a youtube video.


Maybe a 4 year old athlon. I'm using 9% watching a youtube video while also in a video chat and a virus scan


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andyboy*
> 
> if only we can combine AMD iGPU with intel CPU to make the ultimate APU.
> 
> I can't stand AMD processors using 30% cpu just to watch a youtube video.


My Phenom II 955 in my parents pc is quite old yet it only uses like 5-10% browsing/youtubing


----------



## Seronx

https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/amd_kaveri_share.jpg
https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/amd_kaveri_share2.jpg
https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/screensaver/kv2-0.jpg

Nice job, AMD. It is like they didn't even try this time.

https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/screensaver/kv2-3.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Hogenakkal_Tamil_Nadu.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaveri

For me the ifitcanreachspace and moontoast are sync'ed. It's the Kaveri mobile platform.


----------



## S1L3Nt

Looks like it. If they can't announce anything that has already been leak a month ago, then at least they can wow us over with a series of design wins.


----------



## PiOfPie

Colette LaForce really needs to go. I like the parallelogram motif in AMD's IP that she introduced, but other than that, she really hasn't done anything for AMD's marketing. Kaveri mobile's nice, but it doesn't deserve nearly this level of hype.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andyboy*
> 
> if only we can combine AMD iGPU with intel CPU to make the ultimate APU.
> 
> I can't stand AMD processors using 30% cpu just to watch a youtube video.


If it doesn't have a hardware decoder, sure! Otherwise, no, and this would apply to Intel chips of the same era too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/amd_kaveri_share.jpg
> https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/amd_kaveri_share2.jpg
> https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/screensaver/kv2-0.jpg
> 
> Nice job, AMD. It is like they didn't even try this time.
> 
> https://ad.moontoast.com/amd/GULFSHORES-104/screensaver/kv2-3.jpg
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Hogenakkal_Tamil_Nadu.JPG
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaveri
> 
> For me the ifitcanreachspace and moontoast are sync'ed. It's the Kaveri mobile platform.










Sigh... It's right there in the URL bar! People look at those, right?

...

This just in, the entirety of AMD's marketing team has been fired! I wonder why.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> This just in, the entirety of AMD's marketing team has been fired! I wonder why.


That 295 launch video. It's the most atrocious thing I've ever seen. I was literally sure it was a parody.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> This just in, the entirety of AMD's marketing team has been fired! I wonder why.


Again?!

That is like the fourth time now.

Thuban - Marketing laid off.
Bulldozer/G2012/C2012 (2011) - Marketing laid off.
Bobcat 2.0/T - Marketing laid off.


----------



## SandGlass

They will be launching the mobile kaveri, with a iGPU that is around the speed of a geforce 765m.
AMD's marketing director registered the domain, his email:
[email protected]


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Thuban - Marketing laid off.
> Bulldozer/G2012/C2012 (2011) - Marketing laid off.
> Bobcat 2.0/T - Marketing laid off.


Wait, really? I was joking; are you not? Somehow this does not surprise me, Bulldozer especially.


----------



## NuclearPeace

I still find it hard to get exited over APUs to the degree AMD wants us to.

The GPUs in the APUs are too slow to be considered for gaming but are too fast to really matter for the average computer user. These users can get by on the Intel HD 4 series already. The faster GPU only really matters for HSA GPGPU but that has yet to become available to the general pubic on such a scale where its worth getting.

The Steamroller cores in Kaveri APUs are still too slow. With the 28nm SHP fiasco, Steamroller only effectively ends up marginally faster than Piledriver, which is marginally faster than K10. Power consumption is a huge part of AMD's campaign, but even as it stands today an i3-4130T (35w) would still be faster than the A8-7600 (45/65w) in CPU performance while being more efficient.

The only thing left AMD has for leverage is HSA. WIth Qualcomm in the fray, HSA has high chances of succeeding on Android especially seeing how each of their SoC starting with the S4 supports it. However, the desktop is a different arena and AMD has to face Intel, which is planning their own HSA-like things with bringing Iris Pro with 128MB of L4 cache on package to the desktop.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Wait, really? I was joking; are you not? Somehow this does not surprise me, Bulldozer especially.


Nope there has been streaks of layoffs pertaining to Marketing, Research & Development, and General. From AMD particularly when they cancelled products;
2009 - Sandtiger / Falcon -> Lay Off
2011 - Terramar / Sepang / Komodo -> Lay Off
2012 - Krishna / Wichita -> Lay Off

If you go farther back there are more lay offs it seems natural actually. If there is an another lay off it will be blamed on Kaveri. Not on the unseen cancelled product.


----------



## fateswarm

Wait, do we just witness two unicorns debating each other?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuclearPeace*
> 
> The Steamroller cores in Kaveri APUs are still too slow. With the 28nm SHP fiasco, Steamroller only effectively ends up marginally faster than Piledriver, which is marginally faster than K10. Power consumption is a huge part of AMD's campaign, but even as it stands today an i3-4130T (35w) would still be faster than the A8-7600 (45/65w) in CPU performance while being more efficient.


One of the hidden improvements is doubled L1D and L2; Read, Write, Copy. This improvement can't be seen at higher TDPs but it can at lower TDPs. Steamroller will steamroll Piledriver in cache performance at the 15 watt to 35 watt range.

32nm-SHP = 1.303 billion transistors
28nm-SHP = 2.41 billion transistors

Even if 28nm-SHP is slow it is much more dense.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuclearPeace*
> 
> I still find it hard to get exited over APUs to the degree AMD wants us to.
> 
> The GPUs in the APUs are too slow to be considered for gaming but are too fast to really matter for the average computer user. These users can get by on the Intel HD 4 series already. The faster GPU only really matters for HSA GPGPU but that has yet to become available to the general pubic on such a scale where its worth getting.
> 
> The Steamroller cores in Kaveri APUs are still too slow. With the 28nm SHP fiasco, Steamroller only effectively ends up marginally faster than Piledriver, which is marginally faster than K10. Power consumption is a huge part of AMD's campaign, but even as it stands today an i3-4130T (35w) would still be faster than the A8-7600 (45/65w) in CPU performance while being more efficient.
> 
> The only thing left AMD has for leverage is HSA. WIth Qualcomm in the fray, HSA has high chances of succeeding on Android especially seeing how each of their SoC starting with the S4 supports it. However, the desktop is a different arena and AMD has to face Intel, which is planning their own HSA-like things with bringing Iris Pro with 128MB of L4 cache on package to the desktop.


The 19W parts destroy any Iris Pro on the market one could only imagine what would happen with GDDR5 or other fast high latency memory. At 19W Kaveri's Steamroller cores shouldn't trail much behind the i3 Haswell cores in perf/watt mostly because GF28SHP is not a fiasco at all at low clocks it is actually an unprecedented node much better than Intel's 22 it seems. However the SHP node lacks at high clocks hence the failure that is A10-7850k compared to A8-7600 twice the TDP yet the A10 has little more performance.

Intel could join the HSA foundation or try to do it themselves I think neither will happen any time soon.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Wait, do we just witness two unicorns debating each other?


Hey! We're not debating!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> One of the hidden improvements is doubled L1D and L2; Read, Write, Copy.


Hasn't AMD always had issues with cache?


----------



## TopicClocker

I hope this is something good.....
Dont let me down AMD....
I'm dreaming aren't I....


----------



## Krusher33

Meh... Indian river on a laptop. So disappointing. Here I was hoping for something exciting for our niche but I guess not.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Wait, really? I was joking; are you not? Somehow this does not surprise me, Bulldozer especially.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> Nope there has been streaks of layoffs pertaining to Marketing, Research & Development, and General. From AMD particularly when they cancelled products;
> 2009 - Sandtiger / Falcon -> Lay Off
> 2011 - Terramar / Sepang / Komodo -> Lay Off
> 2012 - Krishna / Wichita -> Lay Off
> 
> If you go farther back there are more lay offs it seems natural actually. If there is an another lay off it will be blamed on Kaveri. Not on the unseen cancelled product.












If this is mobile kaveri.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Hasn't AMD always had issues with cache?


AMD obliterated most of the issues by going with a wider interface. Instead of going for higher clocks they went for the best clock per watt.

Piledriver Load/Store Unit + L1D: ~4.39 mm²
Imgur Steamroller Load/Store Unit + L1D: ~3.43 mm²
Actual Steamroller Load/Store Unit + L1D: ~4.2812 mm²

They took what they learned with HBM and Wide I/O and placed it in the cache array.

---
To addition of the above; Piledriver vs Steamroller(actual).

Front-end: ~3.8808 mm² vs ~4.6494 mm²
FPU: ~3.136 mm² vs ~2.7489 mm²
Cores : ~3.0456 mm² vs ~2.106 mm²

Food for thought:
Semiconductor full-node shrinks can have twice as much transistors in the same area or the same amount of transistors in half the area.


----------



## Ultracarpet

well... I'm actually pretty pumped for some mobile kaveri. I do not think, though, that this deserved a massive countdown and marketing campaign lol. Why do a space themed build up and then do another one focusing on the literal meaning of kaveri lol....

AMD, Please let someone else do your marketing. Please.


----------



## Stormscion

Get real PLEASE.

APUs (Intel and AMD) and their graphic performance ARE needed for gaming and much more relevant then titan z and 295 and such...
Performance in Hearthstone, DOTA, LOL, World Of Tanks and such games encompasses much higher demand and user base. Better iGPUs are needed.
And again sorry to break it up to you, we who use dGPUs are already niche market.

In both media AND gaming. AMD top of the line APUs are probably only ones that can play dota2 @ decent framerates in 1080p for example and for competitive game that is quite important.


----------



## Crnogorac

While some mobile kaveri chips are interesting(especially fx 7500 & fx 7600p),they are hardly worth getting pumped for.

Also,in my opinion,hyping them as "so far ahead of their time,that they are launching them in space" is completely wrong,as they don't deserve such praise and hype.

All I can do is *hope*(daydream actually)that mobile kaveri won't be the only thing they'll show us,but I'll surely get dissapointed by doing so.

P.S. - I just reminded myself of a song I haven't listened to in ages(I could have been a dreamer,performed by Dio).****,that man(Ronnie James Dio) sure was a legend,may he rest in peace!


----------



## Stormscion

"so far ahead of their time,that they are launching them in space"
is idiotic I agree


----------



## ozlay

the AM1 socket is practically mobile cpus perhaps they will be coming out with some chips for AM1 along with mobile kaveri but i would really like to see some new FM2+ cpus so i can upgrade my sig


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> But you'd think if they went from a working "prototype" to something that powers on and displays windows you'd think we'd have at least heard rumors about it.


This "tech" is for interconnects, many engineers have decried that copper interconnects have given up way too long ago.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> the AM1 socket is practically mobile cpus perhaps they will be coming out with some chips for AM1 along with mobile kaveri but i would really like to see some new FM2+ cpus so i can upgrade my sig


Not mobile, but low-power. It's analogous to Intel Atoms, not to laptop chips. However, a laptop supporting a fully upgradeable AM1 system is very feasible using stock APUs and custom motherboards and cooling solutions. We still don't know about Carrizo, but given AMD's track record, I bet it will be FM2+, possibly FM3 compatible if it supports DDR4 (though it will likely be backwards-compatible if it does). I don't see AMD dropping FM2+ after just one architecture, but it has happened with them before.


----------



## cdoublejj

have they announced it yet?


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> While some mobile kaveri chips are interesting(especially fx 7500 & fx 7600p),they are hardly worth getting pumped for.
> 
> Also,in my opinion,hyping them as "so far ahead of their time,that they are launching them in space" is completely wrong,as they don't deserve such praise and hype.


this

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stormscion*
> 
> "so far ahead of their time,that they are launching them in space"
> is idiotic I agree


yes, cause the only thing you launch into space is usually something you dont need







like alien, a russian dog laika, general zodd and his fellow warriors locked in a crystal mirror, and so on
yes, another marketing team is gonna be a goner xD

best
revro


----------



## Crnogorac

True,they should fire their marketing team,they are doing an awful job..Anybody remember those *disturbing* videos regarding r9 295x2,in which an idiot in a suit was carrying it inside a briefcase?God,those were the 2 dullest minutes of my life


----------



## atomicmew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> have they announced it yet?


Leaks confirmed Kaveri APU.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> True,they should fire their marketing team,they are doing an awful job..Anybody remember those *disturbing* videos regarding r9 295x2,in which an idiot in a suit was carrying it inside a briefcase?God,those were the 2 dullest minutes of my life


Best part of the video was when he broke the fins on the radiator while putting the card into the briefcase.









And by the way, that's not the dumbest video they made, there have been much worse videos from AMD over the years.


----------



## Crnogorac

Good point,they have made much,much worse videos over the years.
Still,I mentioned this one,as it is recent,and because it was made by their current/soon to be former(hopefully) marketing team.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Leaks confirmed


oxymoron lol

Knowing AMD, it's probably just that


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> Good point,they have made much,much worse videos over the years.
> Still,I mentioned this one,as it is recent,and because it was made by their current/soon to be former(hopefully) marketing team.


Yeah, like the one where they smash an nVidia card with a sledgehammer. Or the one with ninjas fighting that represented Fusion APUs. And the "world can't handle the power" video for Bulldozer FX. There's lots of those, I always browse AMD's videos when I need a chuckle.









And I do hope they fire their marketing department. "So far ahead of it's time we're launching it at the edge of space"... aside from the fact that it sounds stupid when I repeat it in my head, it doesn't make any sense at all. To make things even worse, that's a mobile APU, not something actually worth all the hype.


----------



## boot318

^ I actually like the "So far ahead of it's time we're launching it at the edge of space" slogan. They should've kept it for an 8-core apu (20nm?). I liked the ninja one.... love "The Fixer"!!!!!

Fix me!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Nisrock7863

If they're really just hyping an FX-branded mobile APU I think I'm gonna switch teams.







Waving the FX badge around to get people's attention just so they can make people aware that they're releasing some weaksauce piece of junk no one cares about is the ultimate sign that they're abandoning the enthusiast market.

I'm still holding out hope, but not much. Maybe they'll give me something to get excited about and stop all this prattle about APUs for a few minutes. Taping a weak CPU to a weak GPU does not a powerhouse make.

As far as the tag line is concerned, maybe they're just subtly warning us how long it'll take this miracle product to reach us. If it's launching at the edge of space it's gonna take forever to get here even if it's moving at the speed of light.

/bitter


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stormscion*
> 
> "so far ahead of their time,that they are launching them in space"
> is idiotic I agree


Just had this crazy thought about it being 8 Puma cores with a lot of SPs and fast memory like the consoles now that would be rather cool.

Clearly the on the edge of the atmosphere announcement is not mobile Kaveri and is not Beema and Mullins so it is something else we'll know tommorow.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Just had this crazy thought about it being 8 Puma cores with a lot of SPs and fast memory like the consoles now that would be rather cool.
> 
> Clearly the on the edge of the atmosphere announcement is not mobile Kaveri and is not Beema and Mullins so it is something else we'll know tommorow.


As silly as AMD's marketing is sometimes i seriously doubt this is just about mobile Kaveri, there has to be something else.

At least....for the marketing team's sake i hope there is


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boot318*
> 
> ^ I actually like the "So far ahead of it's time we're launching it at the edge of space" slogan. They should've kept it for an 8-core apu (20nm?). I liked the ninja one.... love "The Fixer"!!!!!
> 
> Fix me!!!!!!!!!!!!


Being ahead of it's time doesn't have any connection with the edge of space, just doesn't make any sense is all. The ninja one was more like a low-budget Bollywood movie than a Fusion presentation. And the R9 295X2 video is a pearl, that guy with the briefcase first breaks the fins on the 120 rad then proceeds to poke his eye out with sunglasses.









As for the fixer, that one is just crap. Back then I was looking to get the cheapest card there is cause I couldn't afford anything else and then there was AMD, smashing a GeForce card with a sledgehammer, pathetic. I have no problems with guys volt-modding their cards and destroying them by overclocking to hell and back, I do the same with low-end cards I get for free when people upgrade, but I do have a problem with the lack of respect AMD showed with that video. I wouldn't do that to any piece of hardware, no matter the company.


----------



## Seronx

In celebration of the upcoming Kaveri Mobile launch; http://www.overclock.net/t/1493507/amd-trinity-and-kaveri-die-comparisons-56k-warning

I'm going through all the almost clear as day changes between Trinity and Kaveri.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Just had this crazy thought about it being 8 Puma cores with a lot of SPs and *fast memory like the consoles* now that would be rather cool.










Like the Xbone's 1333MHz 128-bit VRAM? It has about a quarter the bandwidth of a typical Bonaire card. I'd love to have a socketed version of that APU, but it would not be particularly fast if the Xbone's issues in, in some cases, reaching just 1080p OR 60FPS are indicative of anything. They'd need to make a new socket for that too, and I find that unlikely.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

I for one would love to see AMD's "small core" CPUs (Bobcat/Jaguar/Puma) be spun into a higher end part. The AM1 chips look like they make alright performance/watt, and they could make a 16 core one with like a 90W TDP. And that's real cores, not SMT.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

90W is actually a bit high. The quad-core AM1 chips are pulling ~20W under load, though I'm not sure if this includes the GPU as well. As a pure CPU, a 16-core Jaguar/Puma chip would pull ~80W at the max. With a competent GPU, things change a bit, but sub-100W is probably doable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> And that's real cores, not SMT.


CMT, not SMT. Hyperthreading is SMT; it magically turns one core into two threads. Bulldozer and its successors are CMT; they take a single module that has two incomplete cores and uses them together to achieve two threads.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 90W is actually a bit high. The quad-core AM1 chips are pulling ~20W under load, though I'm not sure if this includes the GPU as well. As a pure CPU, a 16-core Jaguar/Puma chip would pull ~80W at the max. With a competent GPU, things change a bit, but sub-100W is probably doable.
> CMT, not SMT. Hyperthreading is SMT; it magically turns one core into two threads. Bulldozer and its successors are CMT; they take a single module that has two incomplete cores and uses them together to achieve two threads.


Would be a medium sized chip unless the uncore doesn't scale linear at all and actually is a small ratio. I would say we'd be looking at a 250mm^2 chip.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Would be a medium sized chip unless the uncore doesn't scale linear at all and actually is a small ratio. I would say we'd be looking at a 250mm^2 chip.


So the same size as Kaveri (to two significant figures) and measurably smaller than Vishera (315mm^2). That's feasible, but 250mm^2 sounds a bit small. It wouldn't be nearly as big as Zambezi/Vishera, but the same size as Kaveri sounds small. Then again, I have no idea how big a Kaveri GPU compute unit compares to a CPU compute unit. Four Jaguar cores = one Steamroller module, so if one GPU core is half the size or bigger, then 16 cores with no L3 is feasible. If they're about the same size, then a reasonable amount of L3 can fit on the die. Again, this assumes a pure CPU and not an APU.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> So the same size as Kaveri (to two significant figures) and measurably smaller than Vishera (315mm^2). That's feasible, but 250mm^2 sounds a bit small. It wouldn't be nearly as big as Zambezi/Vishera, but the same size as Kaveri sounds small. Then again, I have no idea how big a Kaveri GPU compute unit compares to a CPU compute unit. Four Jaguar cores = one Steamroller module, so if one GPU core is half the size or bigger, then 16 cores with no L3 is feasible. If they're about the same size, then a reasonable amount of L3 can fit on the die. Again, this assumes a pure CPU and not an APU.


I was going by 4 puma cores with uncore and no gpu or gpu perphs being ~60mm^2 a fair guesstimate I suppose.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I was going by 4 puma cores with uncore and no gpu or gpu perphs being ~60mm^2 a fair guesstimate I suppose.


Yeah, but extrapolation is more fun!







Also, I overthink things.


----------



## Olivon

I can find an i3-4130+ HD7700 combo at the same price than an A10-7850K..
Why I would take an APU ?
APU seems a great idea for the mobiie world but, on Destop, performance deficit is too important.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Olivon*
> 
> I can find an i3-4130+ HD7700 combo at the same price than an A10-7850K..
> Why I would take an APU ?
> APU seems a great idea for the mobiie world but, on Destop, performance deficit is too important.


Because A10-7850K is an enthusiast part which costs an awful lot and the comparison part should be the A8-7600 but it isn't released yet for whatever reason that is.
I doubt 150 dollar will buy you the board the i3 and the HD7750 GDDR5.

Also you'd be buying more cpu grunt with the Kaveri chip just very little single threaded grunt. OC headroom is what gives you more grunt over the i3.
Clearly Kaveri A8-7600 is a better deal for gaming than separate parts can buy in that price range(with new stuff).


----------



## Olivon

A8-7600 is impossible to find in my country.
All I see is that top notch APU from AMD is not really competitive on the desktop side.
Maybe that's why sales numbers are weak for Desktop.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I doubt 150 dollar will buy you the board the i3 and the HD7750 GDDR5.
> 
> Also you'd be buying more cpu grunt with the Kaveri chip just very little single threaded grunt. OC headroom is what gives you more grunt over the i3.
> Clearly Kaveri A8-7600 is a better deal for gaming than separate parts can buy in that price range(with new stuff).


I'm pretty sure you won't get a free motherboard with the purchase of a qualifying APU either. For $250, you can get an A88X motherboard and a 7850k, or you can get a lower-end i3, an R7 250X, and a cheap H81 or B85 motherboard (I think, but low-end parts are boring honestly).

Not really. Look at an Ivy i7, stock, against 5GHz full four module Vishera. Now look at a Haswell i3 and Kaveri quad-core at the same respective frequencies. There shouldn't be a big gap between the tests. And yes, APUs are better for gaming with no dGPU, but that's it. If you're getting a dGPU, then springing for a locked i5 is a much better option.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'm pretty sure you won't get a free motherboard with the purchase of a qualifying APU either. For $250, you can get an A88X motherboard and a 7850k, or you can get a lower-end i3, an R7 250X, and a cheap H81 or B85 motherboard (I think, but low-end parts are boring honestly).
> 
> Not really. Look at an Ivy i7, stock, against 5GHz full four module Vishera. Now look at a Haswell i3 and Kaveri quad-core at the same respective frequencies. There shouldn't be a big gap between the tests. And yes, APUs are better for gaming with no dGPU, but that's it. If you're getting a dGPU, then springing for a locked i5 is a much better option.


Nope but a A8-7600 is like 100 + 40 total.
A i3 would be like 100 + 80 + 40 total

AMD's APU can OC you are aware of that low end Intel platforms however can not. The i3 is a 54W part while the A8-7600 also incorporates the gpu in that same consumption space.

Clearly the A8-7600 would be the better buy it it actually was available! Stupid AMD not releasing the product actually attractive for the desktop.

Either way mobile Kaveri is going to be impressive flops/W the SHP node used is better than Intel's offering and in mobile the clock tradeoff is actually worth it. Super effective at low clocks super ineffective at high clocks with GDDR5 added in the mix(hope it does) the 19W parts will blow Intel based solution away in gaming even in situations they don't win from the added dGPU it will stomp on power consumption.

With high end notebooks coming with Kaveri this generation I think there will be a shift in gaming laptops especially if those high spec notebooks come at a decent price point.

Luckily for us the announcement here is something else than Kaveri I suppose.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Clearly Kaveri A8-7600 is a better deal for gaming than separate parts can buy in that price range(with new stuff).


A10-6800K is the king of APUs, a 7750-like iGPU strapped onto an FX 4350 that does 5GHz easily with decent cooling for $120 is way better than A8-7600 in my book.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> AMD's APU can OC you are aware of that low end Intel platforms however can not.


I'm not sure about Kaveri but Kabini loses all USB 3 ports and all SATA ports (except for boot drive) once you cross 105MHz on BCLK, Linux even fails to boot off SATA if crossing 105. PCI-E bus is 100% stable even at 132MHz BCLK but the SATA/USB 3 ports are lost as soon as you go 106.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> A10-6800K is the king of APUs, a 7750-like iGPU strapped onto an FX 4350 that does 5GHz easily with decent cooling for $120 is way better than A8-7600 in my book.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about Kaveri but Kabini loses all USB 3 ports and all SATA ports (except for boot drive) once you cross 105MHz on BCLK, Linux even fails to boot off SATA if crossing 105. PCI-E bus is 100% stable even at 132MHz BCLK but the SATA/USB 3 ports are lost as soon as you go 106.


I'll take the 7750, please. GDDR5 + two more GCN cores makes for a much better GPU.

That's why we have unlocked multipliers. Those are pretty idiot-proof. Kaveri has it for sure, but Kabini does not and will not.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'll take the 7750, please. GDDR5 + two more GCN cores makes for a much better GPU.


And I'll take the smaller one.







My next upgrade will likely be a mITX build with a high-end unlocked APU just for the form-factor, moving around a 34kg case while vacuuming is becoming a pain in the arse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> That's why we have unlocked multipliers. Those are pretty idiot-proof. Kaveri has it for sure, but Kabini does not and will not.


The problem is that idiot-proof part, companies like catering to idiots so we guys who know how to OC with BCLK and know the advantage of it can go to hell and buy an expensive enthusiast platform (which in my case translates to just go to hell, I can't even afford to give $300 for a PC). I wonder who came up with the idea of locking down BCLK, I'd like to shove his head into a 6000RPM 200mm Delta.









And it sucks that AMD won't be releasing an unlocked little core part, these things don't have great OC headroom so they wouldn't eat into big core sales and overcloking them is as fun as overclocking a real CPU.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> And I'll take the smaller one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next upgrade will likely be a mITX build with a high-end unlocked APU just for the form-factor, moving around a 34kg case while vacuuming is becoming a pain in the arse.
> The problem is that idiot-proof part, companies like catering to idiots so we guys who know how to OC with BCLK and know the advantage of it can go to hell and buy an expensive enthusiast platform (which in my case translates to just go to hell, I can't even afford to give $300 for a PC). I wonder who came up with the idea of locking down BCLK, I'd like to shove his head into a 6000RPM 200mm Delta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it sucks that AMD won't be releasing an unlocked little core part, these things don't have great OC headroom so they wouldn't eat into big core sales and overcloking them is as fun as overclocking a real CPU.


With unlocked base clock Kabini would rock but to be honest I think Beema would kinda suck as the node that made it loose half it's power consumption is the same node that does very bad at high clocks.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> With unlocked base clock Kabini would rock but to be honest I think Beema would kinda suck as the node that made it loose half it's power consumption is the same node that does very bad at high clocks.


Yeah, Beema would likely have issues, the node is designed for low clocks and I'm not sure how it would behave once overclocked.

However, Kabini can be overclocked for 24/7 use with SATA set to IDE mode and gains little in terms of power consumption (for me the CPU went for 12W to 19W, iGPU went from 14W to 18W). I'd say some 2.5-2.6GHz stable should be fairly easy to reach even on stock cooling, but you need to use only one HDD (as boot drive and data) and you'd lose USB 3.0 as well as all other SATA ports. It's not PCI-E instability since PCI-E is stable even at 133MHz for me.

While I can live with no spare SATA/USB 3.0 ports, Linux can't boot that way for some reason, only Windows, and I hate Windows. It's just my luck, I guess.


----------



## Alastair

Well guys with MSI releasing a new GAMING series board on AM3+ and it seems ASUS could be winding up to do the same. Do you think it is possible we might be seeing a new AM3+ FX coming to the table?


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Well guys with MSI releasing a new GAMING series board on AM3+ and it seems ASUS could be winding up to do the same. Do you think it is possible we might be seeing a new AM3+ FX coming to the table?


I very much doubt it, but I so very much hope so


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Well guys with MSI releasing a new GAMING series board on AM3+ and it seems ASUS could be winding up to do the same. Do you think it is possible we might be seeing a new AM3+ FX coming to the table?


It will have to be amazing to make people buy it.


----------



## Roaches

Nice! I really hope its a new chipset rather than a 990FX refresh. If true I might give my FX-8350 a second life out of the box.

Was really looking forward to a new socket though







Regardless, still better than nothing.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Well guys with MSI releasing a new GAMING series board on AM3+ and it seems ASUS could be winding up to do the same. Do you think it is possible we might be seeing a new AM3+ FX coming to the table?


It's possible, but it's more likely that they're just doing a minor revamp to make their mobo offerings more attractive (compared to the other existing AM3+ boards) to the dwindling number of remaining AMD enthusiasts that don't already have an AM3+ setup. A larger share of a shrinking pie can still be profitable...


----------



## Kuivamaa

For a few seconds I wondered whether AMD is preparing an FX steamroller after all. But it probably is just MSI completing their range with an AM3+ board since their current offerings have shortcomings. Still good timing for me as I will soon be in the market for another vishera build.


----------



## Krusher33

Sapphire also came out with an AM3+ 990FX board too. Why are they coming out with new boards for that socket?


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Nice! I really hope its a new chipset rather than a 990FX refresh. If true I might give my FX-8350 a second life out of the box.
> 
> Was really looking forward to a new socket though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, still better than nothing.


1090FX got canned. AM3+ was supposed to be home to Zambezi only, while what we now know as Vishera would have been FM2 or FM2+. There'll be new motherboards, but there won't be new chipsets.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> It will have to be amazing to make people buy it.


Match the performance of my FX-9590 at a lower clock and cooler temps and I'll buy it - assuming slightly better single thread performance.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 1090FX got canned. AM3+ was supposed to be home to Zambezi only, while what we now know as Vishera would have been FM2 or FM2+. There'll be new motherboards, but there won't be new chipsets.


AM3+ is with 990FX for Zambezi and Vishera.

1090FX is the revitalization of the 990FX boards with components largely reserved to Intel motherboards. This allows the motherboard vendors to reduce the cost of cross manufacturing between the two x86 vendors.

Zambezi/Vishera/Centurian (Orochi) => AM3+ / 990FX, 1090FX.
Komodo (Viperfish) => FM2 / FX(xx) or (xx)FX

The main difference between Orochi and Viperfish is that Viperfish had the IOMMU 2.0 unit like Trinity. Which means if a consumer used Graphic Core Next with the Windows OS, (Linux(etc) support wasn't added till IOMMU 2.5). That consumer would get HSA, hQ, and hUMA which is probably one of the biggest disappointments of a cancelled product.

FX consumers could have gotten HSA, hQ, hUMA before Kaveri ever came out.


----------



## ozlay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Not mobile, but low-power. It's analogous to Intel Atoms, not to laptop chips. However, a laptop supporting a fully upgradeable AM1 system is very feasible using stock APUs and custom motherboards and cooling solutions. We still don't know about Carrizo, but given AMD's track record, I bet it will be FM2+, possibly FM3 compatible if it supports DDR4 (though it will likely be backwards-compatible if it does). I don't see AMD dropping FM2+ after just one architecture, but it has happened with them before.


need more FM2+ cpus for the ROG Crossblade Ranger when it comes out


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> Sapphire also came out with an AM3+ 990FX board too. Why are they coming out with new boards for that socket?


stalling tactics until new FX probably


----------



## maarten12100

Anyone has a link to the AMD computex webcast?
See ya tommorow it opt to be a great day


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> need more FM2+ cpus for the ROG Crossblade Ranger when it comes out


GAH! I have so many tabs open right now. I don't know which thread I'm in anymore!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Anyone has a link to the AMD computex webcast?
> See ya tommorow it opt to be a great day


Assuming they can get their live stream working, of course.







For those of you unfortunate enough to have school/work/actual obligations, I shall be a helpful deadbeat and post a one-sentence summary of the event and whether or not it's exciting. Because I am helpful.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> GAH! I have so many tabs open right now. I don't know which thread I'm in anymore!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming they can get their live stream working, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you unfortunate enough to have school/work/actual obligations, I shall be a helpful deadbeat and post a one-sentence summary of the event and whether or not it's exciting. Because I am helpful.


This man is a saint.


----------



## Deadboy90

Its going to be a new GPU architecture. The Radeon GPU twitter keeps going on about the announcement and not the FX one so its gotta be GPU related.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> Its going to be a new GPU architecture. The Radeon GPU twitter keeps going on about the announcement and not the FX one so its gotta be GPU related.


Which was initially tweeted by @AMDEmbedded. This implies developments with Beema, perhaps integrated GCN 1.1 graphics as well, based on some roadmaps that may mean absolutely nothing by now. I don't think it was tweeted from whatever the main account is, or whatever one handles APUs. HEY, this might actually be more interesting than Kaveri!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> This man is a saint.


Agreed.


----------



## davcc22

9 hours to go


----------



## yawa

Ugh, figures I got today off to cash my Scratch ticket and not tomorrow.

No matter what the consensus is at the moment, I'm still holding out hope for something totally unexpected from AMD tomorrow.

We shall know soon enough though.


----------



## Aonex

^^And no matter what happens, no need to get an i7.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I'm still holding out hope for something totally unexpected from AMD tomorrow.


Ah,a fellow optimist! We're both on the same page regarding that - we're both expecting something unexpected









The marketing campaign "so far ahead of it's time that we are launching it in space" just doesn't make any sense.Surely it cannot be directed only to mobile kaveri,as they don't deserve such hype,despite the fact that they are good products.

The only products that would be deservant of such hype are tonga and a beefed up kaveri with more cores and/or much stronger gpu,and only if they incorporate HBM into them,which is unlikely,at least at the moment.

Since it's unlikely that they have the aforementioned products,all I can say is that they should most certainly fire their marketing team!

Still,I'm hoping that they'll surprise us - The paranoiac in me has a gut feeling that AMD has something nice to show us.The recently announced fm2+ rog board lands some weight to that claim...


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> The marketing campaign "so far ahead of it's time that we are launching it in space" just doesn't make any sense.Surely it cannot be directed only to mobile kaveri,as they don't deserve such hype,despite the fact that they are good products.


It's probably an ultra low power mobile part, in a phone or something, attached to a weather balloon.

"Edge of space" almost always means weather balloon, and balloons imply wireless, and wireless implies low power.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aonex*
> 
> ^^And no matter what happens, no need to get an i7.


I was drunk on optimism when I said that.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> It's probably an ultra low power mobile part, in a phone or something, attached to a weather balloon.
> 
> "Edge of space" almost always means weather balloon, and balloons imply wireless, and wireless implies low power.


I guess you are right,but only partially,at least in my opinion.
What you said would explain the "we are launching it at the edge of space",but what about "so far ahead of it's time" part?

I know my expextations are unrealistic,but I was only going with the information that AMD's marketing provided us with(which is basically nothing).In my opinion,the only products that are deservant of such hype are the (imaginary) products I mentioned earlier.

In any case,I believe that we can both agree on one thing - AMD's marketing team is pitiful,at best!


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> 9 hours to go


9 hours?

Says ~21 for me, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlackerITGuy*
> 
> 9 hours?
> 
> Says ~21 for me, unless I'm missing something.


Time zone?


----------



## Seronx

http://anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus

http://ark.intel.com/products/75460/Intel-Core-i7-4500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_00-GHz
Majority of the comparisons are to dual-core Haswells.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> http://anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus
> 
> http://ark.intel.com/products/75460/Intel-Core-i7-4500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_00-GHz
> Majority of the comparisons are to dual-core Haswells.


The site says 20 hours left are you sure there's nothing else being released by AMD.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Talk about the biggest 'meh' of an announcement of the year. Why make such a big countdown for something we already know of?


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Time zone?


Time zone? the countdown should be exactly the same regardless of time zone(s).


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Talk about the biggest 'meh' of an announcement of the year. Why make such a big countdown for something we already know of?


I was expected something better from AMD. Another marketing flop by AMD, like always.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I was expected something better from AMD. Another marketing flop by AMD, like always.


Actually, it might be a better marketing strategy than previous disasters.

AMD Kaveri is delayed and broken and how do you make the most profit with that? By constantly talking about it and marketing it. AMD would not want to pollute all markets with Kaveri at the same time.

This only means bad things for Carrizo which will be on 20nm and its successor Basilisk on 14nm.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlackerITGuy*
> 
> Time zone? the countdown should be exactly the same regardless of time zone(s).


It should be,but it isn't - When I look it up,it says that there are 14 hours left


----------



## Rickyyy369

Mine says 21 hours. Great job AMD. Great job.


----------



## Crnogorac

Einstein wasn't kidding when he said that time is relative


----------



## maarten12100

N\o GDDR5 no HBM well I guess that that early preview by Anand showcases a good product but it could've been so much better.
I'm a bit disappointed in mobile Kaveri if this is the case.


----------



## kyrie74

20 hours here in EDT.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> It should be,but it isn't - When I look it up,it says that there are 14 hours left


Montenegro is 6 hours ahead of me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Mine says 21 hours. Great job AMD. Great job.


Illinois is 1 hour behind me.

So I think it is relative to your time zone.


----------



## Crnogorac

It is relative to the timezones,but it should not be,unless they plan to lauch at exactly 9 pm,for each and every time zone.

Since it's now past 1pm in Taiwan,and the timer ends at 9pm,expect the announcement in a little less than 8 hours.


----------



## Exilon

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> http://anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus
> 
> http://ark.intel.com/products/75460/Intel-Core-i7-4500U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_00-GHz
> Majority of the comparisons are to dual-core Haswells.


Disappointing results.

Though I guess that was to be expected.


----------



## Aonex

There better be a Steve Jobs "just one more thing..." announcement after mobile Kaveri.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aonex*
> 
> There better be a Steve Jobs "just one more thing..." announcement after mobile Kaveri.


This probably won't happen till HC26: http://www.hotchips.org/


----------



## s-x

The only issue i see is AMD isnt very good at marketing things. This isnt something out of this world, it was expected and performs decently, the big question is how partners integrate the chip into laptops, if they slap them on cheapo laptops, nobody will want them. If they do as the author said and use the cost savings to implement an SSD, or better screen then these will do fine.

AMD should stop hyping things and make announcements that show the average consumer the difference between intel and AMD parts. Because honestly, we all know these chips are just as good as intels for your average person.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aonex*
> 
> There better be a Steve Jobs "just one more thing..." announcement after mobile Kaveri.


hopefully, but I doubt it.


----------



## Seronx

Couple of the business "Kaveri" Mobile Pro SKUs are FHD(1080p). I guess that is a win but Broadwell already has contracts for 4K UHD(2160p).


----------



## PirateZ

Probably this one gives more idea:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-7600p-kaveri-apu,3842.html


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PirateZ*
> 
> Probably this one gives more idea:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-7600p-kaveri-apu,3842.html


They are really negative and stating Intel has a node advantage here while Kaveri parts rofl stomp in glops/W.


----------



## Offler

3D mark in cloudgate = over 9000
My current system (Phenom II 1090t + HD 7970) has 18000...

Thats quite impressive for a laptop chip without dedicated graphics.

Yeah right


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> 3D mark in cloudgate = over 9000
> My current system (Phenom II 1090t + HD 7970) has 18000...
> 
> Thats quite impressive for a laptop chip without discrete graphics.


You are probably read into that wrong.

CloudGate (FX-7600P):
3DMark - ~5450
Graphics - ~9200
Physics - ~2250

CloudGate (Stock 1090T + Reference Stock 7970)
3DMark - ~17000
Graphics - ~50800
Physics - ~5100


----------



## jakethesnake438

waht


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlackerITGuy*
> 
> Time zone? the countdown should be exactly the same regardless of time zone(s).


Why?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> unless they plan to lauch at exactly 9 pm,for each and every time zone..


Is this even unusual?


----------



## BW22

Sigh... 9:00 PM on the 4th of July has rolled around for those of us here in NZ and elsewhere on the front end of space time ( relative to the rest of the human race, I actually haven't a clue where the front of space-time is [ if it exists ] ). No dice. The site simply tells me to not be so impatient.

Guess I'll just have to wait along with everyone else.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> They are really negative and stating Intel has a node advantage here while Kaveri parts rofl stomp in glops/W.


Only in GPGPU workloads, CPU only workloads are not as great compared to an i7, especially when they are near equivalent in power consumption. I'm not sure if the GPU performance will play a big role with this thing, while OpenCL and GPU-accelerated programs are becoming more frequent CPU is still the most important part, and that's where AMD lacks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BW22*
> 
> Sigh... 9:00 PM on the 4th of July has rolled around for those of us here in NZ and elsewhere on the front end of space time ( relative to the rest of the human race, I actually haven't a clue where the front of space-time is [ if it exists ] ). No dice. The site simple tells me to not be so impatient.
> 
> Guess I'll just have to wait along with everyone else.


Don't be so impatient.


----------



## sepiashimmer

Has it announced? If it's the mobile Kaveri APU it was nothing too far ahead.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepiashimmer*
> 
> If it's the mobile Kaveri APU it was nothing too far ahead.


It's Kaveri mobile and it came out ~15 months after Richland mobile.

It seems AMD had a restructuring of the launches.

Desktop;
Llano: Jun 30, 2011
Trinity: Oct 1, 2012
Richland: Jun 4, 2013
Kaveri: Jan 14, 2014

Llano -> ~15 Months = Trinity
Trinity -> ~8 Months = Richland
Richland -> ~7 Months = Kaveri

Desktop Scenarios;
A - Kaveri -> ~7 Months = ???
B - Kaveri -> ~8 Months = ???
C - Kaveri -> ~15 Months = ???

Mobile;
Llano: Jun 14, 2011
Trinity: May 15, 2012
Richland: Mar 12, 2013
Kaveri: Jun 4, 2013

Llano -> ~11 months = Trinity
Trinity -> ~9 months = Richland
Richland -> ~15 months = Kaveri

Mobile Scenarios;
A - Kaveri -> ~9 Months = ???
B - Kaveri -> ~11 Months = ???
C - Kaveri -> ~15 Months = ???

If AMD is aiming for a same desktop and mobile launch with the successor of Kaveri then;
C for Desktop and A for Mobile, both target an April 2015 launch.


----------



## davcc22

here is wahts at the end we got trolled mega super big time well played amd well palyed


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Does AMD even have viable silicon for AM3+ anymore? I don't think they could adapt Kaveri to AM3+ since there's no IGP support. Vishera is old hat. There's no way AMD could have spun Excavator into a big die, we don't even have a code name for that yet.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> Does AMD even have viable silicon for AM3+ anymore?


No, Kaveri is aimed at low power only and it's not performance silicon, Excavator will just be more of the same as far as I understand. Bummer.









And even if they do have performance silicon, you won't see it on AM3+, that thing is too old to be re-used.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> No, Kaveri is aimed at low power only and it's not performance silicon, Excavator will just be more of the same as far as I understand. Bummer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And even if they do have performance silicon, you won't see it on AM3+, that thing is too old to be re-used.


AMD is doing the right thing by focusing on the low-power, low-cost segment. They need volume over high margins on enthusiast gear. Unfortunately that's going to make it a lot harder to break into the performance segment again.

I'd be willing to bet AMD's HEDT platform is going to die off, but maybe we can get some stuff from the server side. 4-way G34 is still relevant, I'd love to build one if they can get single-thread perf. up.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> here is wahts at the end we got trolled mega super big time well played amd well palyed


Srsly? Are you for srsly?! Is this via HTML manipulation, or did the countdown actually end for you? That's low-class if the latter. *Sigh* I'm done. Bye guys.


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Srsly? Are you for srsly?! Is this via HTML manipulation, or did the countdown actually end for you? That's low-class if the latter. *Sigh* I'm done. Bye guys.


it was the second potion it ended at 9:00 pm


----------



## Shiveron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Srsly? Are you for srsly?! Is this via HTML manipulation, or did the countdown actually end for you? That's low-class if the latter. *Sigh* I'm done. Bye guys.


It's clearly there on purpose to stop people from trying to cheat to see what it is. Don't be so gullible.


----------



## Rickyyy369

Well the moontoast countdown has ended, so obviously that one was for mobile Kaveri.

https://ad.moontoast.com/552fa6aa-e1bd-11e3-bc12-123139027524?cmpid=social_20140602_25139246


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiveron*
> 
> It's clearly there on purpose to stop people from trying to cheat to see what it is. Don't be so gullible.


Well, the countdown ends at different times. I'm in GMT-5, so I've got 12 hours left or so. Plus, the announcement itself didn't have to be done client-side with JS. All it takes is a little PHP, run the clock via the server, and reveal the secret exciting thing using server-side scripting, i.e. something much more difficult to cheat at finding.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> No, Kaveri is aimed at low power only and it's not performance silicon, Excavator will just be more of the same as far as I understand. Bummer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And even if they do have performance silicon, you won't see it on AM3+, that thing is too old to be re-used.


Conventional Performance segmentation;
- High Performance
- Low Power

Novel Performance segmentation;
- High Performance-Low Power
- Ultra Low Power

Intel has been ahead of the game with using "SoC"/High Performance-Low Power processes for all their needs. Intel started with the "SoC" approach at the "45nm" node while AMD, Samsung, and everyone else started at "28nm."

The thing with the "SoC" approach foundries can get away with one node for HPL and ULP. This cheapens the cost of the node while also allowing higher performance in the disguise of lower, leakage and power consumption.

---
Llano, Trinity, and Richland = High Performance.
Kaveri, Carrizo, and Basilisk = High Performance-Low Power.

Bobcat, Bobcat Gen2, Jaguar = Low Power.
Puma, Puma+, Leopard, Cheetah = Ultra Low Power.

Kabini = Low power node with low power design.
Beema = High performance-low power node with ultra low power design.


----------



## nitrubbb

http://ifitcanreachspace.com

5h left for me

Clearly this must be some other kind of other product not mobile kaveri


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

ok so, there was an anouncment? I still have a count-down. What exactly is going on lol.


----------



## Boomstick727

7 Hours left here?

So was this mobile Kaveri, or is there something else?


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Mine finished counting down and then said "Don't be so impatient"

Guess they never updated it again afterwards


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> Mine finished counting down and then said "Don't be so impatient"
> 
> Guess they never updated it again afterwards


Lol, this is a contender for most underwhelming countdown reveal of all time


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> Lol, this is a contender for most underwhelming countdown reveal of all time


Probably lol

I did hear they were supposed to be announcing something on the 6th but i'm pretty sure this was all about Mobile Kaveri.

Which is great don't get me wrong but it was overhyped massively compared to the end result


----------



## Vispor

Mine says 12 hours left. Can they not even make a count down thingy correctly?!


----------



## Seronx

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Kaveri-Mobile-Preview-AMD-FX-7600P-Performance/PCMark8-and-GPU-Performance-Co

Ouch there is a couple cases where the FX-7600P(Kaveri) is faster than a stock A10-5800K. So, if you want a mobile A10-5800K and you run highly optimal code. Then, the FX-7600P with FHD is for you which might be interesting.


----------



## mtcn77

Does HSA make
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> define close because it only came close to 384SP Kaveri at low res with Kaveri running on slow DDR3. Only the EDRAM models managed to touch Kaveri in low res as long as Kaveri was on slow DDR3.
> 
> At high resolutions or if Iris Pro without EDRAM is used this changes entirely it is not at all unlikely that Kaveri with fast high latency memory will be 60% faster for a 512SP part. A good example is Bay trail even with the dual channel memory it has the graphics can't even put out half the frames the HD8330(128SP parts) put out.
> 
> Iris Pro is also incredibly inefficient for what it offers it pushes a mobile chip into 60W territory which albeit as much as a dGPU gives worse performance and only really usable at low resolutions. Then we get to our final problem which is that some games don't even run and bugs are very common. (Wolfenstein (NO) for example wouldn't even run on Intel HD3000 so I had to run it on 555m which is a no go on the go.
> I didn't actually like the game because it discriminates against smart albeit a "wrong" group of people and gives a really twisted image)
> 
> Let's however not turn this into a Wolfenstein new order hate thread
> 
> 
> Spoiler: What I thought about Wolfenstein the new order
> 
> 
> 
> let's just say the dialog is probably made by really stupid pro America anti European people with little knowledge about history. I mean even the winning part in the story 1935-1942 is completely wrong.
> Guess this is what a genre turned into what first was about shooting nazi's in their evil lair and fighting 4 armed hitler turned into a game that stated that "all nazis are dumb", "The Jewishs people invented all the technology in the world, to get closer to god.", "Rationalism and god go together", "distance should be measured in miles".
> 
> 
> This goes so far that AMD's server process optimization guides state to not use Intel compiler because they will look for the genuine Intel string and cripple the gives instruction set if it isn't found.
> You're certainly not the only one but it is most likely lack of knowledge about the subject that driver most people in that way of thinking.
> Exactly
> *APU13 event showcased various speedups trough HSA by mediatek(an ARM licensee), ARM and AMD those speedups were in excess of 5x actually if you go down to assembly the speedup was over 60x down to binary 130x.* (those are the numbers I recall from the presenation don't take me up on it but I can assure you they were very high)
> 
> Clearly if the software support is here we will be in a entirely different playing field and it is infact the solution for when the single core perf comes to a complete standstill.


Well, I happened to quote your mention without any affirmation. Could you help with some


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Kaveri-Mobile-Preview-AMD-FX-7600P-Performance/PCMark8-and-GPU-Performance-Co
> 
> Ouch there is a couple cases where the FX-7600P(Kaveri) is faster than a stock A10-5800K. So, if you want a mobile A10-5800K and you run highly optimal code. Then, the FX-7600P with FHD is for you which might be interesting.


Wait, was this the announcement? Where and when did this happen?

This just in, AMD marketing is a mess!


----------



## NuclearPeace

Where is our A8-7600? Cant AMD just take some 7700ks and lock the multiplier?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> Does HSA make
> Well, I happened to quote your mention without any affirmation. Could you help with some


Google APU13 and register on the APU365 site with name and email and you can access the broadcasts. (for a year since they launched)
Quote:


> Is There Anything New in Heterogeneous Computing?


was one of the mentions of speedups trough HSA but there are more. I just don't recall which it were as it is some time ago.


----------



## ronal

Come on AMD, don't troll me, or I'll go with the Devil's Canyon.

10 hours left for me.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Come on AMD, don't troll me, or I'll go with the Devil's Canyon.
> 
> 10 hours left for me.


Wait for the conference today perhaps


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Why?


Because if an event is scheduled to be X hours from now, it doesn't matter where you live, we all have to wait the same.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2348053/computex-amd-launches-kaveri-apu-for-mobile-pcs-and-notebooks

That video, my brain it hurts.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2348053/computex-amd-launches-kaveri-apu-for-mobile-pcs-and-notebooks
> 
> That video, my brain it hurts.


Looking at that die it looks like if it were just a cpu they could fit 8 cores easily.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Looking at that die it looks like if it were just a cpu they could fit 8 cores easily.




AMD is going for 16 cores with the next desktop FX/Server SKU. I like how the figure has erroneous "30h-3Fh" models, when it is suppose to be 40h-4Fh. The only reason we are not seeing this processor sooner is because it is cancelled for 50h-5Fh models. Which uses the same cores from 60h-6Fh.

---
I suppose it isn't really AMD's fault for marketing the FX-7600P (35W) and FX-7500 (19W) to the i7 4600M(15W) and i7 4500U(15W). Why you do this Intel? It would have been more realistic for Intel to use the same monikers from desktop.

Pentium, Celeron, i3 = 2C/4T
i5 = 4C/4T
i7 = 4C/8T

Nope, Intel has to call an i3, an i5 or an i7. If AMD with this marketing succeeds, I worry about humanity's intelligence.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> 
> 
> AMD is going for 16 cores with the next desktop FX/Server SKU. I like how the figure has erroneous "30h-3Fh" models, when it is suppose to be 40h-4Fh. The only reason we are not seeing this processor sooner is because it is cancelled for 50h-5Fh models. Which uses the same cores from 60h-6Fh.
> 
> ---
> I suppose it isn't really AMD's fault for marketing the FX-7600P (35W) and FX-7500 (19W) to the i7 4600M(15W) and i7 4500U(15W). Why you do this Intel? It would have been more realistic for Intel to use the same monikers from desktop.
> 
> Pentium, Celeron, i3 = 2C/4T
> i5 = 4C/4T
> i7 = 4C/8T
> 
> Nope, Intel has to call an i3, an i5 or an i7. If AMD succeeds, I worry about peoples intelligence.


Isn't the Pentium and Celeron only 2C/2T? Or has that changed recently.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> 
> 
> AMD is going for 16 cores with the next desktop FX/Server SKU. I like how the figure has erroneous "30h-3Fh" models, when it is suppose to be 40h-4Fh. The only reason we are not seeing this processor sooner is because it is cancelled for 50h-5Fh models. Which uses the same cores from 60h-6Fh.
> 
> ---
> I suppose it isn't really AMD's fault for marketing the FX-7600P (35W) and FX-7500 (19W) to the i7 4600M(15W) and i7 4500U(15W). Why you do this Intel? It would have been more realistic for Intel to use the same monikers from desktop.
> 
> Pentium, Celeron, i3 = 2C/4T
> i5 = 4C/4T
> i7 = 4C/8T
> 
> Nope, Intel has to call an i3, an i5 or an i7. If AMD with this marketing succeeds, I worry about humanity's intelligence.


They've got a lot of ground to make up, they should make a $999 20 Core CPU.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs*
> 
> Isn't the Pentium and Celeron only 2C/2T? Or has that changed recently.


You are absolutely correct. Pentium and Celeron are the equivalents of i5s but for dual cores.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> They've got a lot of ground to make up, they should make a $999 20 Core CPU.


AMD pretty much told the world what the 16-cores ASP will be from now on.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206370%20HE.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206338%20HE.html


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs*
> 
> Isn't the Pentium and Celeron only 2C/2T? Or has that changed recently.


You are correct. For desktops, i3s, i7s, and Xeons are the only things with hyperthreading. Or rather, Celerons, Pentiums, and i5s are the only things without hyperthreading.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> AMD is going for 16 cores with the next desktop FX/Server SKU.


Really? They're ditching CMT and I count eight CPUs in the diagram. Sounds a lot like a "true" octacore.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> You are absolutely correct. Pentium and Celeron are the equivalents of i5s but for dual cores.


Not really. The laptop Pentiums and Celerons don't have Turbo Boost either.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Not really. The laptop Pentiums and Celerons don't have Turbo Boost either.


Some laptop i5s are essentially desktop i3s with 2C/4T. I think even some i7s are 2C/4T for laptops as well. Don't worry too much about laptop naming schemes. His point is Celeron/Pentium : i3 :: i5 : i7/E3 in terms of threads and cores.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Really? They're ditching CMT and I count eight CPUs in the diagram. Sounds a lot like a "true" octacore.


those are 'compute units' not cores. there are 8 cu with 16 cores


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~kRon1k~*
> 
> those are 'compute units' not cores. there are 8 cu with 16 cores


Kaveri has four CPU CUs, or two modules with four cores. Again, since they've ditched CMT, there is no way that's 16 cores. Unless they can get Excavator working by some miracle, it won't happen, and 65W TDP doesn't sound like a performance chip.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Kaveri has four CPU CUs, or two modules with four cores.


Kaveri has four cores or two dual-core modules.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Again, since they've ditched CMT, there is no way that's 16 cores.


AMD is not ever ditching Cluster Multithreading, it is here to stay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Unless they can get Excavator working by some miracle, it won't happen, and 65W TDP doesn't sound like a performance chip.


The new game is High Performance-Low Power.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

ugg typical amd marketing... After the bulldozer messup I'v had a bad taste in my mouth. Still hasnt left i guess.


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Kaveri has four CPU CUs, or two modules with four cores.


AMD calls modules "Compute Units", my BIOS has an option called "One core per compute unit" which enables only one core per module. Kaveri has two CUs and 8-core Vishera has four CUs, eight CUs is 8M/16C and I'd sure as hell love to have it.


----------



## imran27

What is launched??? Any news...the countdown website didn't show any countdown


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> AMD calls modules "Compute Units", my BIOS has an option called "One core per compute unit" which enables only one core per module. Kaveri has two CUs and 8-core Vishera has four CUs, eight CUs is 8M/16C and I'd sure as hell love to have it.


:/

I remember seeing Kaveri advertised as having eight GPU CUs (eight GCN cores, works out fine) and four CPU CUs. Unless Kaveri is secretly hiding two modules, AMD isn't being consistent with their terminology.


----------



## mossberg385t

Maybe it's a new socket and sapphire already has a board for it... The full cover block board, which conveniently hides the socket and they're just lying saying it's am3+

Itsaconspiracy


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mossberg385t*
> 
> Maybe it's a new socket and sapphire already has a board for it... The full cover block board, which conveniently hides the socket and they're just lying saying it's am3+
> 
> Itsaconspiracy


Timers done. Its mobile Kaveri.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> Timers done. Its mobile Kaveri.


Pics?


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> Pics?


www.amd.com


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> Timers done. Its mobile Kaveri.


http://ifitcanreachspace.com

showing me 1h 30 minutes left

Also what about the "launching it in space"? So far there has been nothing about that


----------



## Roaches

Mobile Kaveri has already been revealed, if the timer ends up revealing Mobile Kaveri; its epic fail marketing.

Still 11 hours left


----------



## mk16

i've got 8 and a half.


----------



## Newbie2009

Cool it if was something genuinely new, like a triple gpu discreet card and an announcement you can now have unlimited gpus in crossfire.


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Mobile Kaveri has already been revealed, if the timer ends up revealing Mobile Kaveri; its epic fail marketing.
> 
> Still 11 hours left


Weren't the specs leaked last week?


----------



## S1L3Nt

11h left for me. Unless they were launching a product for every time zone... someone needs to get fired from the marketing team.


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *S1L3Nt*
> 
> 11h left for me. Unless they were launching a product for every time zone... someone needs to get fired from the marketing team.


if it is a mobile apu they need to can their whole marketing team. yes lets hype it up and display it like an enthusiast part then when we show it off it turns out to be a laptop part that no one cares about.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> if it is a mobile apu they need to can their whole marketing team. yes lets hype it up and display it like an enthusiast part then when we show it off it turns out to be a laptop part that no one cares about.


I will be very disappointing if its a APU/Mobile part.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *S1L3Nt*
> 
> 11h left for me. Unless they were launching a product for every time zone... someone needs to get fired from the marketing team.
> 
> 
> 
> if it is a mobile apu they need to can their whole marketing team. yes lets hype it up and display it like an enthusiast part then when we show it off it turns out to be a laptop part that no one cares about.
Click to expand...

What makes you think they displayed it like an enthusiast part?


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> if it is a mobile apu they need to can their whole marketing team. yes lets hype it up and display it like an enthusiast part then when we show it off it turns out to be a laptop part that no one cares about.


This might be a leak, not sure if it's already been posted.
"AMD Officially Launches The Mobility Kaveri APU Lineup - Flagship FX-7600P and FX-7500 Power High-Performance Notebooks"

Well, that's another marketing team gone.

If they dont surprise me in 3 hours, I'm sure as hell going DC or Broadwell sooner than ever.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> This might be a leak, not sure if it's already been posted.
> "AMD Officially Launches The Mobility Kaveri APU Lineup - Flagship FX-7600P and FX-7500 Power High-Performance Notebooks"
> 
> Well, that's another marketing team gone.
> 
> If they dont surprise me in 3 hours, I'm sure as hell going DC or Broadwell sooner than ever.


Same


----------



## Aonex

I think AMD was trying to top Nvidia's "ultimate gaming" Titan Z marketing, with their own over hyped, out of touch campaign.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aonex*
> 
> I think AMD was trying to top Nvidia's "ultimate gaming" Titan Z marketing, with their own over hyped, out of touch campaign.


If it's one of these notebook APUs.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aonex*
> 
> I think AMD was trying to top Nvidia's "ultimate gaming" Titan Z marketing, with their own over hyped, out of touch campaign.


Yeah, but at least AMD will launch theirs on time!

#rekt


----------



## S1L3Nt

Well, what I don't get is what the launching it from the edge of space means.


----------



## maarten12100

Guys guys the at the edge of space is probably something different from the Kaveri mobile release also I would like to add that we should wait for the keynote scheduled today. They showed Kaveri last year so probably carrizo this year.


----------



## damric

Mobile Kaveri is getting shot into space because AMD has no contracts to actually use these APUs


----------



## Clocksmith

Don't be so impatient?


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocksmith*
> 
> Don't be so impatient?


got the same message - unreal gigantic facepalm


----------



## MeynardMayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocksmith*
> 
> Don't be so impatient?


I'm getting the same thing too, did AMD do this whole thing just to mess with us?


----------



## om3nz

Looks like they forgot to update page sources, fail of the year.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *om3nz*
> 
> Looks like they forgot to update page sources, fail of the year.


Unless it actually will be revealed at the conference


----------



## om3nz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Unless it actually will be revealed at the conference


It is not a good way to promote something by pissing everybody off. If it was their original intention, then their PR team should be fired.


----------



## sugarhell

Yeah its ahead of its time. Because nothing use hsa atm #burn


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *om3nz*
> 
> It is not a good way to promote something by pissing everybody off. If it was their original intention, then their PR team should be fired.


were talking AMD here .. they don't have a PR team

or a driver team


----------



## Offler

I still got 30 minutes to go...


----------



## Rickyyy369

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> I still got 30 minutes to go...


If you set the clock on your computer ahead 30 minutes you'll get the "Don't be impatient" message.


----------



## mk16

i got 6 hours
and set my time ahead 7 got the dont be so impatient.


----------



## Clovertail100

I've got 9 hours and 30 minutes.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> were talking AMD here .. they don't have a PR team


Their PR team is actually quite decent considering that they can get people talking about the most insignificant small things. And they're also very good at making people believe that AMD is for the good of the consumer and everyone else kills babies


----------



## Aonex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> And they're also very good at making people believe that AMD is for the good of the consumer and everyone else kills babies


You give them too much credit... people came up with that on their own.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Their PR team is actually quite decent considering that they can get people talking about the most insignificant small things. And they're also very good at making people believe that AMD is for the good of the consumer and everyone else kills babies


Didn't you know? G-Sync is powered by the souls of dead babies!


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Didn't you know? G-Sync is powered by the souls of dead babies!


really? *go buys a g-sync monitor*


----------



## sugarhell

(selfie)#prayforthebabies


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> (selfie)#prayforthebabies


well maybe if amd used baby souls they would have a good product and a reason for me to use them again.


----------



## Norz

...9 minutes to go... I want to belive..


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I remember seeing Kaveri advertised as having eight GPU CUs (eight GCN cores, works out fine) and four CPU CUs. Unless Kaveri is secretly hiding two modules, AMD isn't being consistent with their terminology.


Actually, AMD isn't consistent with anything.

Piledriver was supposed to be what Steamroller is now, and SR was supposed to be an 8M/16C FX part. AMD first called the module "compute unit" with FX, stating how 8000 series will consist of four compute units featuring 8 cores. Now they changed the "compute unit" from the module to a 64 USPs/4 TMUs/1 ROP GCN cluster with Kaveri, and for some crazy reason, they called each core a "compute unit" as well, changing their initial naming scheme completely and not making any sense what so ever.









And I just noticed they named their mobile processor FX, and not a good mobile processor either. When a mid-range mobile CPU wears the same brand recognition as the fastest processor in the world once did, then not only is the brand dead, AMD hammered the nails in it's coffin and pissed all over it for good measure.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> And they're also very good at making people believe that AMD is for the good of the consumer and everyone else kills babies


Hey, it's common knowledge Intel and nVidia throw kittens into incinerators and keep frozen babies in their fridge for snacks, it's a necessary sacrifice needed to please the silicon gods. That's why Maxwell and Haswell use so little power, they are fueled by the blood of the innocent.


----------



## inedenimadam

So do we have anything confirmed yet? I just got home and read the last few pages, but it was mostly still speculation and clock countdown miscalculation rants.


----------



## Gomi

3 minutes!

*Opens beer*


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> well maybe if amd used baby souls they would have a good product and a reason for me to use them again.


Not for you doesn't mean it ain't a good product also what is with the anti ssd statements in your sig.


----------



## Alatar

Mine ended an hour ago and all I got was the "don't be so impatient" text


----------



## Gomi

Mobile.......


----------



## Markus

Quote:


> AMD's most advanced APU
> goes mobile.
> Please wait... uploading in process


This is the text I get now at least. Might it update more or is this it?


----------



## Redwoodz

Here in Silicon Valley it is 9 hours to go....and no amount of changing your time will get an early answer.








By the way that mobile Kaveri review on Anandtech was done months ago.


----------



## Norz

lol.... http://www.ifitcanreachspace.com/

AMD's most advanced APU
goes mobile.
Please wait... uploading in process


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Markus*
> 
> This is the text I get now at least. Might it update more or is this it?


Same, my timer ran out few minutes ago and I now get the same message.


----------



## Olivon

Lame marketing is lame.


----------



## maarten12100

That is a bit of a bummer considering that countdown on the other site was for Kaveri and this was promising.
Unless the presentation gives GDDR5 support in OEM models or Excavator details this Computex hype is a bit of a failure.


----------



## Zamoldac

The reveal works fine for me


----------



## Unknown170890

I got this after countdown


----------



## xioros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zamoldac*
> 
> The reveal works fine for me


Haha, successful troll


----------



## Aonex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zamoldac*
> 
> The reveal works fine for me


Ahaha, well done.


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Not for you doesn't mean it ain't a good product also what is with the anti ssd statements in your sig.


were already OT as it is


----------



## MoRLoK

So big disapointment. Why all that hype ? nothing new nothing special.Im selling my fx-6300. They killed rest of my hope







. So i will buy MSI Z97 GSMING 3 and wait for DC.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zamoldac*


Huh. Interesting. This is exciting if true. However:



Not too hard to manipulate.


----------



## Rickyyy369

Disappointment of the year.


----------



## mk16

amd better do something good


----------



## Offler

First I got message "dont be impatient", after the refresh I have "APU goes mobile"...

Well. I belive i am going to miss it


----------



## Rickyyy369

That video was incredibly pointless.


----------



## TopicClocker

Why can I not comment on the video, I'd ask "Marketing team fired?"


----------



## mk16

when i up my time i still get the dont be message. anyone else done for real and getting something good?


----------



## Rickyyy369

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> when i up my time i still get the dont be message. anyone else done for real and getting something good?


Its a video of a mobile Kaveri chip inside a fullerene being launched to space with a weather balloon and then falling back to earth. The end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umR_iyQ0RSE


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> when i up my time i still get the dont be message. anyone else done for real and getting something good?


Eeyup, here's the video:


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoRLoK*
> 
> So big disapointment. Why all that hype ? nothing new nothing special.Im selling my fx-6300. They killed rest of my hope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . So i will buy MSI Z97 GSMING 3 and wait for DC.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Disappointment of the year.


How the hell do you hype something up, people think it's Kaveri and then you're like "Don't be so impatient?" Are stupid AMD, or are you just trolling???


----------



## maarten12100

So in a nutshell no GDDR5 and still a hype for something already released. Something can't be called most advanced if something else is the exact same then it is equally advanced but behind on sheer clock.
I believe this kind of failure once I see the keynote and nobody mentions Carrizo or GDDR5


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

What socket is this kaveri on?


----------



## Shiftstealth

When does the keynote start?


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> What socket is this kaveri on?


Mobile socket (whatever it's called), it's a netbook CPU.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> When does the keynote start?


I don't know it should be today according to this page
http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/press_event/

But no freaking link no live stream I want to wacht stuff I cri in mi bed everytim sumtin lik this happins


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Mobile socket (whatever it's called), it's a netbook CPU.


Notebook netbooks are those tiny garbage things that can't do anything running atoms.
Could be done right with a good chip like Mullins or if you need cheap and only standard baytrail.


----------



## Pro3ootector

So kaveri FX-7500 is a quad core chip with 19W TDP, so there is a chance of a octa core 35W mobile part








Or there isn't..?


----------



## flippin_waffles

Looks like marketing has done their job very well. 600 replies and 40,000 views on just one forum for an excellent mobile Kaveri APU. GJ AMD and great part.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I don't know it should be today according to this page
> http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/press_event/
> 
> But no freaking link no live stream I want to wacht stuff I cri in mi bed everytim sumtin lik this happins


According to that it was last night our time.

Sooo all this is, is mobile kaveri?

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow


----------



## Werne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Notebook


It's all the same - flat and square with a built-in monitor and keyboard/touchpad that you can flip open and has a CPU in it.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> According to that it was last night our time.
> 
> Sooo all this is, is mobile kaveri?
> 
> Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow


Nah computex is a big event for AMD they would give about an hour of keynotes making anouncements talking about HSA gaming etc etc. And showcase the successor to Kaveri.
I want to see it now! Also I need to know whether GDDR5 has a place in OEM laptops or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> It's all the same - flat and square with a built-in monitor and keyboard/touchpad that you can flip open and has a CPU in it.


Well yeah that is the general definition of a traditional portable computer pretty much.


----------



## inedenimadam

Well that was a conveniently soft fall back from space, with a remarkably curious sheep resting just a few feet from the landing spot. What? No, how dare you suggest that this was a staged landing!?!










How about some specs?


----------



## verovdp

The (now) insatiable urge to go forward and buy Haswell-E and/or Z97/i7 4790k has never been stronger...







Seriously AMD!?

Edit: Well at least by the looks of the AnandTech benchmarks in the article mobile kaveri makes some strides forward against mobile Piledriver/Richland.. but its still not enough progress if you ask me.


----------



## alwaysAMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Its a video of a mobile Kaveri chip inside a fullerene being launched to space with a weather balloon and then falling back to earth. The end.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umR_iyQ0RSE


Wow. This makes me want to throw my laptop to the edge of space. Such high hopes to return to the desktop scene.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Luckily for them I'm looking to buy a new laptop for university. Let's hope their offerings are worth it..


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Well, thanks, AMD. Exactly what I concluded it would be, but with way too much hype.


----------



## maarten12100

Keynote has happened clearly but where is the freaking video!


----------



## hyp36rmax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Eeyup, here's the video:


I guess this is somewhat cool... I'm rather disappointed, however it's probably because I'm wishfully expecting for AMD to surprise me with an awesome release. The hype never really bode well with the release...Truth be told I disappointed myself. I feel many of us truly want AMD to succeed with a jaw dropping product.

The only AMD recent release that actually delivered was the R9 295X2, which totally caught me off guard with it's AIO. Disregarding its price point.

I do look forward to the Kaveri FX Mobile APU performance though, seems like it will be a real competitor in terms of price, now how does it perform?.


----------



## Pip Boy

Why cant AMD just stop. stop for 1 minuet, stop concentrating on the 'future' 2020 or 2040 or 2060 (when intel will still dominate) and concentrate on the here and now .. their customer base, their rapidly falling customer base.

see, we might not want to drive electric cars but they are the future and it will happen eventually, but the thing about the future is .. its not now and smart manufacturers can offer efficiency _and_ performance whilst keeping an eye on the future.

Now we know what the name stands for

*A*NOTHER *M*ASSIVE *D*ISAPPOINTMENT


----------



## Pro3ootector

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus/3

some benchmarks


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Now we know what the name stands for
> 
> *A*NOTHER *M*ASSIVE *D*ISAPPOINTMENT


----------



## Nisrock7863

I'm starting to understand why my brother switched teams now. I'll probably do the same with my next build. Them using the FX branding on a weak mobile part just screams that they've given up on enthusiasts entirely. It's just sad. It was purely to build hype and had nothing to do with performance. All it did was disappoint the audience it got interested.

Up side, my 8320 should hold me over for a few years. I always enjoyed supporting them, but they're not even competing in the midrange anymore. The only use I can think of for an APU is a machine for my girlfriend, who doesn't game, and only browses the web - and even then, an i3 would probably be better for that.

Maybe they'll come up with something to get me interested before I start really shopping again, but given their current direction, I'm not sure that's going to happen.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pro3ootector*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8119/amd-launches-mobile-kaveri-apus/3
> 
> some benchmarks


Still have to wait for real-life products and prices. Also I would like to see how this mobile APU is performing with 2133Mhz RAM.

Anyways current notebooks with dedicated Nvidia or AMD graphics consume up too much power to be considered as real notebooks. You just cant use them with battery


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Why cant AMD just stop. stop for 1 minuet, stop concentrating on the 'future' 2020 or 2040 or 2060 (when intel will still dominate) and concentrate on the here and now .. their customer base, their rapidly falling customer base.
> 
> see, we might not want to drive electric cars but they are the future and it will happen eventually, but the thing about the future is .. its not now and smart manufacturers can offer efficiency _and_ performance whilst keeping an eye on the future.
> 
> Now we know what the name stands for
> 
> *A*NOTHER *M*ASSIVE *D*ISAPPOINTMENT


You are a tad so out of touch with the world. But some of your points are valid AMD shouldn't have hyped this this much if there was no GDDR5 or Carrizo showing. Something that was known for weeks.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Still have to wait for real-life products and prices. Also I would like to see how this mobile APU is performing with 2133Mhz RAM.
> 
> Anyways current notebooks with dedicated Nvidia or AMD graphics consume up too much power to be considered as real notebooks. You just cant use them with battery


I doubt AMD sent test APU's out with 1600Mhz ram when they support 2133 Mhz.


----------



## LordOfTots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> 
> 
> Keynote has happened clearly but where is the freaking video!


Hmm...that slide mentions new "Pro" series mobile AND desktop APU's...are they talking about Carrizo?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> So kaveri FX-7500 is a quad core chip with 19W TDP, so there is a chance of a octa core 35W mobile part rolleyes.gif
> Or there isn't..?


AMD simply isn't capable of "so far advanced" performance using 19 watts or even 35 watts. Intel isn't. People in general here are probably not excited about such low power, considering how tightly related to performance it is.

If they cram half of a 260x and two modules at a low clock speed that's half as fast as an i3 into 19-35w, some people will be excited. Maybe the low-budget laptop crowd who can't afford Haswell/Maxwell. Nobody will be excited for raw performance, though.


----------



## MeanBruce

This looks like a CPU crime scene, did something happen here? Everyone is sad.









What did I miss?


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> This looks like a CPU crime scene, did something happen here? Everyone is sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I miss?


You missed the biggest hype troll of the year.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> This looks like a CPU crime scene, did something happen here? Everyone is sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I miss?


EPIC fail marketing, before the timer expired, mobile Kaveri was revealed to the press....when the timer expired (for some here) They get a video showing a Kaveri CPU die sent to space in weather balloon.
Huge letdown IMO as most of us was expecting something better.

I'll just remind myself from here on out to avoid their CPUs unless I'm on a budget lol.


----------



## MeanBruce

AMD's marketing subgroup needs to include someone with a degree in human psychology, someone young, someone current, a recent graduate maybe.










Nothing against the hardware, but their marketing is so substandard. Just the humble opinion of a simple man.









How AMDs marketing usually leaves me feeling.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Werne*
> 
> Mobile socket (whatever it's called), it's a netbook CPU.


Desktop Kaveri needed the FM2*+* socket, so it's not really a dumb question...


----------



## zooterboy

Never in my life have I seen a group of corporations more clueless to what consumers want. AMD's not the only one, Intel is just as bad. Don't even get me started on Microsoft (Really? Everybody with a computer prefers a touch-based interface?).

Sure, mobile/low power electronics are neat, but they are not the way forward. Nobody's going to be typing an academic paper on a tablet. Nobody wants to edit videos using a 7,8, or 10 inch screen. Nobody's going to be writing/editing code on a phone in the next 10 years. Office on an iPad is like giving ice-climbing gear to your grandmother for Christmas. The laptop form factor will always be easier to use and more practical than a tablet/phone for anything productive.

In other words, you moron corporations, computing is COMPUTING; not consuming. Mobile electronics are *not replacing computers*. Tablets are toys to the average consumer.

The so-called 'cloud' is just as much NOT the future of computing as mobile is. (It is, however, the future of intelligence gathering)

So, to sum up, you complete bunch of cotton-headed ninnymuggins', you have talked yourself, with your cute little catch-phrases, right into stagnating sales and profits. Congratulations!

/rant.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> Desktop Kaveri needed the FM2*+* socket, so it's not really a dumb question...


Mobile Kaveri uses FP3 which has two modes ULV and SV.

SV = 1.05v, PCIe 3.0 speeds
ULV = 0.95v, PCIe 2.0 speeds


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> Never in my life have I seen a group of corporations more clueless to what consumers want. AMD's not the only one, Intel is just as bad. Don't even get me started on Microsoft (Really? Everybody with a computer prefers a touch-based interface?).
> 
> Sure, mobile/low power electronics are neat, but they are not the way forward. Nobody's going to be typing an academic paper on a tablet. Nobody wants to edit videos using a 7,8, or 10 inch screen. Nobody's going to be writing/editing code on a phone in the next 10 years. Office on an iPad is like giving ice-climbing gear to your grandmother for Christmas. The laptop form factor will always be easier to use and more practical than a tablet/phone for anything productive.
> 
> In other words, you moron corporations, computing is COMPUTING; not consuming. Mobile electronics are *not replacing computers*. Tablets are toys to the average consumer.
> 
> The so-called 'cloud' is just as much NOT the future of computing as mobile is. (It is, however, the future of intelligence gathering)
> 
> So, to sum up, you complete bunch of cotton-headed ninnymuggins', you have talked yourself, with your cute little catch-phrases, right into stagnating sales and profits. Congratulations!
> 
> /rant.


I agree with this; especially the Elf quote.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LordOfTots*
> 
> Hmm...that slide mentions new "Pro" series mobile AND desktop APU's...are they talking about Carrizo?


They likely mean FirePro APUs.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LordOfTots*
> 
> Hmm...that slide mentions new "Pro" series mobile AND desktop APU's...are they talking about Carrizo?


Congratulations...we do have a winner! At least one person besides me noticed the words
*NEW PRO SERIES DESKTOP APU!*


----------



## Hms1193

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> They likely mean FirePro APUs.


Business class APUs, not FirePro.


----------



## Roaches

Probably APUs with ECC memory support?


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LordOfTots*
> 
> Hmm...that slide mentions new "Pro" series mobile AND desktop APU's...are they talking about Carrizo?


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> Never in my life have I seen a group of corporations more clueless to what consumers want. AMD's not the only one, Intel is just as bad. Don't even get me started on Microsoft (Really? Everybody with a computer prefers a touch-based interface?).
> 
> Sure, mobile/low power electronics are neat, but they are not the way forward. Nobody's going to be typing an academic paper on a tablet. Nobody wants to edit videos using a 7,8, or 10 inch screen. Nobody's going to be writing/editing code on a phone in the next 10 years. Office on an iPad is like giving ice-climbing gear to your grandmother for Christmas. The laptop form factor will always be easier to use and more practical than a tablet/phone for anything productive.
> 
> In other words, you moron corporations, computing is COMPUTING; not consuming. Mobile electronics are *not replacing computers*. Tablets are toys to the average consumer.
> 
> The so-called 'cloud' is just as much NOT the future of computing as mobile is. (It is, however, the future of intelligence gathering)
> 
> So, to sum up, you complete bunch of cotton-headed ninnymuggins', you have talked yourself, with your cute little catch-phrases, right into stagnating sales and profits. Congratulations!
> 
> /rant.


nice rant. sums up what i think too.

im sure there are many on here who could easily take a 6 figure salary and make better marketing decisions but hey.. they don't have the right piece of paper and connections to get them half way up the greasy pole

afaik the whole tech industry is confused and in period pre-fail they are hanging their hopes on a 'dream vision' of what tech should look and feel like (started by Apple , dental Ad's & crummy science fiction movies ) and not _Actually_ how it should *operate*

+rep btw


----------



## revro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickyyy369*
> 
> Its a video of a mobile Kaveri chip inside a fullerene being launched to space with a weather balloon and then falling back to earth. The end.


so basically to reitarate my old post. they shot something to space, that nobody needs, only to get it back from space as space doesnt need it either? hmm, their marketing proved my point. ou boy. wouldnt want to watch that mad men episode lol

why does this reminds me of an old drunken guy telling bad jokes who then comes and tries to explain, while they are notjokes at all as he is totally drunk and cant talk right.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> why does this reminds me of an old drunken guy telling bad jokes who then comes and tries to explain, while they are notjokes at all as he is totally drunk and cant talk right.


because that's what happens when you have a huge cognitive corporate dissonance

Quote:


> _In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the excessive mental stress and discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time. This stress and discomfort may also arise within an individual who holds a belief and performs a contradictory action or reaction._


^ management and shareholders vs innovators and engineers .. the whole company has been confused for many years now and its really starting to show


----------



## sugarhell

We already knew that this was an APU. We already have leaked specs for fx mobile kaveri. We just hyped it ourselves. Ocn amd pr team


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> We already knew that this was an APU. We already have leaked specs for fx mobile kaveri. We just hyped it ourselves. Ocn amd pr team


We just had hope.









The fact that when people figured this out on multiple forums they told us to not be impatient(Or was that a user edit?), doesn't make any sense.

This sums it up.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> Never in my life have I seen a group of corporations more clueless to what consumers want. AMD's not the only one, Intel is just as bad. Don't even get me started on Microsoft (Really? Everybody with a computer prefers a touch-based interface?).
> 
> Sure, mobile/low power electronics are neat, but they are not the way forward. Nobody's going to be typing an academic paper on a tablet. Nobody wants to edit videos using a 7,8, or 10 inch screen. Nobody's going to be writing/editing code on a phone in the next 10 years. Office on an iPad is like giving ice-climbing gear to your grandmother for Christmas. The laptop form factor will always be easier to use and more practical than a tablet/phone for anything productive.
> 
> In other words, you moron corporations, computing is COMPUTING; not consuming. Mobile electronics are *not replacing computers*. Tablets are toys to the average consumer.
> 
> The so-called 'cloud' is just as much NOT the future of computing as mobile is. (It is, however, the future of intelligence gathering)
> 
> So, to sum up, you complete bunch of cotton-headed ninnymuggins', you have talked yourself, with your cute little catch-phrases, right into stagnating sales and profits. Congratulations!
> 
> /rant.


Truth, and the steady decline in tablet sales supports your assertions. They're toys, not a viable replacement for real hardware. I browse the web on my phone when I have to, not because I want to.


----------



## AngeloG.

Snooze...


----------



## verovdp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> Congratulations...we do have a winner! At least one person besides me noticed the words
> *NEW PRO SERIES DESKTOP APU!*


Well let's see, so the FX-7500 is clocked at 2.1 / 3.3Ghz with 10 CU (4 CPU + 6 GPU) and has a 19W on R7 graphics, while the top A10 PRO-7350B has the same clocks, compute units, and TDP apart from the fact that it uses R6 graphics. So therefore I ask, what could possibly be the detail that separates the FX from the Pro series? Different socket? Enterprise support (like ECC)? We know that AM3+ cpus have ECC support by virtue of the memory controller, and that most (if not all?) of the APUs on FM2(+) do not have ECC support on the memory controller, so maybe that is the main difference between the "FX" and "PRO" APUs although this is just purely speculation on my part.

So if ECC and other enterprise specific features are the only real difference between the "FX" and "PRO" series APUs, then honestly that slide has nothing on it to get us excited other than the chance at having a half-decent platform for laptops (mobile Kaveri) if OEM manufacturers/vendors don't botch the pricing, and the desktop APUs may only be as interesting as the recent AM1 socket offerings have been.


----------



## sugarhell

Pro means that they guarantee the same hardware for the next 10 years or something


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Wait, so the mobile Kaveri only has 384 SPs instead of 512? That sucks!


----------



## S1L3Nt

There is the FX-7600p with 512 SPs


----------



## flyin15sec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Pro means that they guarantee the same hardware for the next 10 years or something


This.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

This is just..................I don't even know.

All I have been asking AMD to do for like the last.....maybe 5 years now is to just make a straight up CPU.

No stupid tricks or gimmicks.

Make a low power 4 core for laptops, and make a 6 core for desktops.

.But no. We get the (what feels like) 34th installment of APU architecture.


----------



## Crnogorac

The problem isn't that AMD is focused on APU's,the problem is that they are focused on (relatively)low end APUs.

APUs are the future,HSA proves this!HSA combines the best traits of both worlds - GPU's ability to excel in parallel workloads,with CPU's performance at serial workloads.

Still,since it will take a few years for HSA to become more widespread,and since not everything can be gpu accelerated,we will still need high x86 performance,which is where AMD is currently behind Intel.Hopefully their next uarch will be well performing,and a true successor to the venerable K7 & K8!

My point is - Be patient,sooner or later we will have some great APU's - In 2 years we will surely have 6-8 core apus with 1024+ gcn alus,paired with HBM.If AMD fixes hybrid crossfire,so you can pair it with higher end gpu's, and their next uarch has high IPS(IPC by itself means *nothing*),APU's will become ultimate budget gaming rigs on their own,with potential to extend well into mid-high end,when crossfired with a higher end gpu(but only if AMD fixes hybrid crossfire)


----------



## mk16

i could care less if its an apu or not what i care about is performance and, they arent giving me enough to want to jump back to their platform over intels.


----------



## darkcloud89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> AMD simply isn't capable of "so far advanced" performance using 19 watts or even 35 watts. Intel isn't. People in general here are probably not excited about such low power, considering how tightly related to performance it is.


The movile Kaveri APU is actually quite competitive with the i5 and ULV i7's though. Way more competitive than AMD has been with Intel in recent years, and the most competitive they have ever been in mobile.
Quote:


> If they cram half of a 260x and two modules at a low clock speed that's half as fast as an i3 into 19-35w, some people will be excited. Maybe the low-budget laptop crowd who can't afford Haswell/Maxwell. Nobody will be excited for raw performance, though.


While enthusiasts may not get excited about the raw performance, it still isn't completely meaningless. Ultimately, power is going to be a limiting factor in how far an architecture can be pushed, so seeing progress in perf/Watt should still be seen as good news if AMD can make improvements there.


----------



## damric

This story:


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> This story:


Yep,this pretty much sums up today's events.


----------



## inedenimadam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crnogorac*
> 
> The problem isn't that AMD is focused on APU's,the problem is that they are focused on (relatively)low end APUs.


I know allot of people are thinking the same way.
But there are those of us that are excited (mildly mind you) about low end APU development in general. I have a couple low end rigs that need to be built between now and the fall, and will be built around AMD APUs. I will still be happily rolling out the Benjamins when x99 drops, as this 3570k and 7970 are getting long in the tooth for 6300x1152 eyefinity. But the wife only needs a picture on a screen, and the HTTP only needs to push 720p...so yeah, lets see AMD make it cheap and work...I will buy it and build it!

Mobile though...eh whatever...I dont even own a cell phone, and I have not booted up my Series 7 Slate in 6 months.


----------



## aweir

This pretentiousness of AMD is really turning into a bit of a running gag and I'm starting to find it amusing to think they can possibly be that hyped over an APU that they drop it from space.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *S1L3Nt*
> 
> There is the FX-7600p with 512 SPs


With too little bandwidth to be any better over 384SPs I cri everytim yiu kniw I di.


----------



## Crnogorac

inedenimadam,don't get me wrong,I'm interested in APU's,regardless of the market segmet they target.What I was trying to say is that I(and pretty much everybody here)find higher end stuff more interesting


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir*
> 
> I'm starting to find it amusing to think they can possibly be that hyped over an APU that they drop it from space.











So true, ugh AMD I want you to do well, I really do.


----------



## yawa

Ifitcanreachspace.com

Turn's out it couldn't.


----------



## SoloCamo

Welp this was disappointing.


----------



## kyrie74

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Welp this was disappointing.


This I can agree with.


----------



## 12Cores

Amd is clearly done with the high end cpu market, they are just trying to stay alive with these non enthusiast grade apu's. Maybe one day the apu will be strong enough to be considered high end, but that day is not today or any day soon.


----------



## ebduncan

well few more days and we will find out. Its not going to be a steam roller core FX. We know it will be a APU of some sorts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *12Cores*
> 
> Amd is clearly done with the high end cpu market, they are just trying to stay alive with these non enthusiast grade apu's. Maybe one day the apu will be strong enough to be considered high end, but that day is not today or any day soon.


I guess your living under a rock, because amd just announced here recently they are bring a new x86 core to the market with high performance in mind.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> well few more days and we will find out. Its not going to be a steam roller core FX. We know it will be a APU of some sorts.
> I guess your living under a rock, because amd just announced here recently they are bring a new x86 core to the market with high performance in mind.


... few more days to find out what? The countdown was for mobile apus....


----------



## MadRabbit

Is AMD kidding us? They just pissed over the enthusiasts they had left, including me. Ive always supported them and been a fan but now...

Guess its DC build rather than something "out of this world" from AMD.

Mobile APU...are you friggin kidding me...

And as for the new arch for x86, thats bound to come in 2 years (hopefully), thats 3 years after Vishera came out. No refresh until that as we can see on the roadmap.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *12Cores*
> 
> Amd is clearly done with the high end cpu market, they are just trying to stay alive with these non enthusiast grade apu's. Maybe one day the apu will be strong enough to be considered high end, but that day is not today or any day soon.


Er yeah, you must have missed this, but since Jim Keller returned to AMD in 2012 he's been working on a from scratch, SMT based high powered core architecture that will come in both ARM and x86-x64 flavors.

AMD started giving details on this recently. It's called Project: Skybridge.

Also Keller is working on a high powered New Architecture for the high end enthusiast market for supposed release in 2015.

Link here...

Skybridge details
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-skybridge-new-arm-and-x86-chips-that-are-pin-compatible

New Architecture 2015 detailshttp://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-to-roll-out-all-new-high-performance-x86-micro-architecture-in-2015/


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> well few more days and we will find out. Its not going to be a steam roller core FX. We know it will be a APU of some sorts.
> I guess your living under a rock, because amd just announced here recently they are bring a new x86 core to the market with high performance in mind.


What?....

You realize the announcement happened. And it was for mobile APUs. There is no other announcement coming. The only thing that AMD has announced in regards to X86 in the past week is their embedded SOCs and networking CPUs.

There is absolutely nothing, rumor mill or news, about a higher performance x86 core. You must be living under a rock. Not us.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Er yeah, you must have missed this, but since Jim Keller returned to AMD in 2012 he's been working on a from scratch, SMT based high powered core architecture that will come in both ARM and x86-x64 flavors.
> 
> AMD started giving details on this recently. It's called Project: Skybridge.
> 
> Also Keller is working on a high powered New Architecture for the high end enthusiast market for supposed release in 2015.
> 
> Link here...
> 
> Skybridge details
> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-skybridge-new-arm-and-x86-chips-that-are-pin-compatible
> 
> New Architecture 2015 detailshttp://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-to-roll-out-all-new-high-performance-x86-micro-architecture-in-2015/


Hahahahhaha I didn't read through this source very well when this news first came through... had to laugh at this quote: "AMD was faced with a dilemma: Continue to go toe-to-toe with Intel and definitely lose, or try something new and probably lose".


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> What?....
> 
> You realize the announcement happened. And it was for mobile APUs. There is no other announcement coming. The only thing that AMD has announced in regards to X86 in the past week is their embedded SOCs and networking CPUs.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing, rumor mill or news, about a higher performance x86 core. You must be living under a rock. Not us.


Again, yes there is.

Keller's designing it, it will be SMT based, has been in development since 2012, and likely won't be revealed till 2015.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-to-roll-out-all-new-high-performance-x86-micro-architecture-in-2015/


----------



## MadRabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Hahahahhaha I didn't read through this source very well when this news first came through... had to laugh at this quote: "AMD was faced with a dilemma: Continue to go toe-to-toe with Intel and definitely lose, or try something new and probably lose".


What? Lose in what? IPC and power consumption? Sure. Multi-threaded is just fine and even better than most Intel in the same price range. TDP...well it sure matters if youre a tree hugger. Most GPUs use more power than CPUs these days, dont see anyone complaining about that.


----------



## geoxile

AMD continues to ignore to the problem with weak memory that bottlenecks their iGPUs
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> well few more days and we will find out. Its not going to be a steam roller core FX. We know it will be a APU of some sorts.
> I guess your living under a rock, because amd just announced here recently they are bring a new x86 core to the market with high performance in mind.


I suggest you look at their slides again. All of the listed applications/markets for the new chips are traditionally low-power. Dense servers, ultra-low power applications, etc. are all ruled by low-power, relatively low-performance. I have a hard time believing they're gearing up to compete with Intel's high-end chips


----------



## 12Cores

I hope their new x86 architecture is competitive but I just wish they would release something to hold us in the interim, this news just plain sucks







.


----------



## yawa

Are you like even reading the links Geo?

What exactly did you think they hired Jim Keller back to do? Bake Cookies?

They currently have two, potentially game changing architectures in the works. One will be a one socket ARM/x86 chip that is AMD rolling the dice on the future server market for (potentially) the final time with a drastic, new idea.

The 2nd is a return to a more traditional SMT design on a high end chip that Keller has been working almost exclusively on since 2012.

And yes, nearly every article that surfaced about this back in early May believes that this chip is AMD returning to the high end market. We will know more in 2015.


----------



## ebduncan

goggle caching is a punk, that first part of my reply about a few days we will find out i was going to post a few days ago lol.

its mobile apu, over hyped eh who cares.

but yes like I said after that they are bringing a new HIGH performance core out. What was posted about sky bridge is correct. They are bringing it out to compete with Intel high end. Who knows if it will be competitive, but we will find out in 2016 the rumored release.


----------



## Seronx

Things that went a miss with Computex;

Puma(28nm) adds support of RDRAND.
Puma+(20nm) adds support of AVX2, BMI2.

Nolan(Pumaplus+VI) will be on the same socket with Carrzio(Excavator+VI APU) and Styx(ARM Cortex A57+VI APU). The socket's name is FP4 which will be 128-bit DDR4.

All the improvements in Excavator and Puma+ will carry over to the next-generation High Performance cores and next-generation Ultra Low Power cores. Both being ARM 64-bit and x86 64-bit, for those improvements.


----------



## StreekG

This was not exciting at all, need some competition. My last AMD was a Sempron 3000+


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Er yeah, you must have missed this, but since Jim Keller returned to AMD in 2012 he's been working on a from scratch, SMT based high powered core architecture that will come in both ARM and x86-x64 flavors.
> 
> AMD started giving details on this recently. It's called Project: Skybridge.
> 
> Also Keller is working on a high powered New Architecture for the high end enthusiast market for supposed release in 2015.
> 
> Link here...
> 
> Skybridge details
> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-skybridge-new-arm-and-x86-chips-that-are-pin-compatible
> 
> New Architecture 2015 detailshttp://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/amd-to-roll-out-all-new-high-performance-x86-micro-architecture-in-2015/


Keller is one man out of probably thousands that will be working on AMD's future architectures.

I wish people would stop giving way too much credit to individuals with stuff like this.


----------



## yawa

Eh, the articles have have been pretty explicit it's his design.

But trust me, I get it's complicated, and anyone involved in the development of such things is a crucial piece of the puzzle that must deliver.

But let's face it, hiring him away from Apple is probably the best PR move AMD has made in the last two years, so it's worth pointing out every chance they get.

And personally I dig the guy. The Cortex chip has no business being as powerful as it is, and the experience he got working on ARM chips might pay off in spades for AMD's server ambitions and dual ARM compatible Socket.

Plus I hate Rory Read and his stupid face. I'd much rather give credit to an engineer/designer than a Corporate hack.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Keller is one man out of probably thousands that will be working on AMD's future architectures.
> 
> I wish people would stop giving way too much credit to individuals with stuff like this.


Just because Jim Keller is a single individual,doesn't mean that he won't affect the development of AMD's upcoming high performance uarch,quite the contrary,since he is in charge of it's development.An example of this is the fact that his guiding hand pointed,so to speak,the development in a different direction.Proof of this is that they are abandoning CMT for a more traditional approach,which would in this case be SMT.

Despite this,I have to [partially] agree with you on this(giving one person too much credit),as building a new uarch is a team effort.Still,what good is a team,if they don't have a true leader and visionary,to guide them?


----------



## Seronx

I have seen a couple of the patents regarding the newer processor cores. These newer cores are still using Cluster Multithreading. The more interesting part of it though is that the cores are 4-way buffered. Which may imply 4 logical threads on one "core."

1M/1C/4T, 1M/2C/8T, 1M/4C/16T, etc.


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I hate Rory Read and his stupid face. I'd much rather give credit to an engineer/designer than a Corporate hack.


I agree with you,Rory Read isn't deservant of such praise,even though he does his job well.In my eyes,he will never be anything more than a corporate hack,as you so eloquently pointed out.

Jim Keller on the other hand seems like a humble guy,a visionary and a true engineer heart,which is why he is so revered.

Anyway,here's something to cheer you up


----------



## Crnogorac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> I have seen a couple of the patents regarding the newer processor cores. These newer cores are still using Cluster Multithreading. The more interesting part of it though is that the cores are 4-way buffered. Which may imply 4 logical threads on one "core."


In that case,my bad - Thanks for correcting me,and sharing this info,I appreciate it.


----------



## andyboy

good job hyping up the ONLY community that cares about this


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Way to go AMD.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Plus I hate Rory Read and his stupid face. I'd much rather give credit to an engineer/designer than a Corporate hack.


Well both Hector Ruiz and Dirk Meyer had engineering background and their poor management has brought AMD much grief. Read is doing a fantastic job in comparison.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Well both Hector Ruiz and Dirk Meyer had engineering background and their poor management has brought AMD much grief. Read is doing a fantastic job in comparison.


I would say all the CEOs have done a good job with what they had received.

Hector Ruiz - got AMD to APUs and GPUs and lead AMD to independent of foundries.
Dirk Meyer - got AMD to new tools for designing microprocessors faster with less man hours needed.
Rory Read - got AMD to return to profits and possible brother/sister subsidiary with GlobalFoundries through Mubadala Technology.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Ruiz received a company that was overtaking intel in CPU perf and instead of capitalizing on this, he sat and milked k8 and lost the advantage. Going fabless was a good idea but Ruiz did it with nasty terms. Purchasing ATi was his only saving grace, really. Still,he is one of the main reasons of AMD misfortune. Meyer wasn't really bad, just simply too narrow minded. Not only he sold mobile graphics department to Qualcomm when smartphone era was in full throttle already, he didn't even pursue laptop market hard enough. And of course the whole Bulldozer saga took place during his reign.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Ruiz received a company that was overtaking intel in CPU perf and instead of capitalizing on this, he sat and milked k8 and lost the advantage.


He didn't milk 00h/K8, in fact through the time he was there AMD was developing Bulldozer as K9. Dirk Meyer's timeframe was building up Bobcat and Jaguar and porting K9 down from a fireball(5 GHz and higher) to something serviceable(4 GHz and lower).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Going fabless was a good idea but Ruiz did it with nasty terms. Purchasing ATi was his only saving grace, really. Still,he is one of the main reasons of AMD misfortune.


One of the main reasons is AMD's Foundries were not up to par. What killed the roadmap was AMD's foundries bleeding cash like crazy. AMD's foundries failed to adopt FDSOI and abandon dependency on IBM nodes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Meyer wasn't really bad, just simply too narrow minded. Not only he sold mobile graphics department to Qualcomm when smartphone era was in full throttle already, he didn't even pursue laptop market hard enough. And of course the whole Bulldozer saga took place during his reign.


This is all conjecture at the moment as AMD didn't have the money to enter those markets. Bulldozer's saga was meant to be on G2012, C2012, and FM2 with the G34, C32, and AM3+ being a tock phase.

Thuban, Lisbon, Magny Cours -> Zambezi, Valencia, Interlagos

AM3+, C32, G34

Komodo, Sepang, Terramar -> xxx, Macau, Dublin

FM2, C2012, G2012

This change in plans was the fault of Thomas Seifert as he went for cancelling of most of the projects. Causing the multitudes of delays for pretty much every successor. This gap in successors caused huge drops for potential income since all the successors were all massive improvements.

The critical mass failure for AMD in this decade is the cancelling of the "Deccan," "Corona," "Luxemburg," and "Porto" platforms. This lead to the delay of the 2013 and 2014 platforms to the 2014 to 2016 timeframe.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Ruiz received a company that was overtaking intel in CPU perf and instead of capitalizing on this, he sat and milked k8 and lost the advantage. Going fabless was a good idea but Ruiz did it with nasty terms. Purchasing ATi was his only saving grace, really. Still,he is one of the main reasons of AMD misfortune. Meyer wasn't really bad, just simply too narrow minded. Not only he sold mobile graphics department to Qualcomm when smartphone era was in full throttle already, he didn't even pursue laptop market hard enough. And of course the whole Bulldozer saga took place during his reign.


Didn't Intel just bribed the market kept money from AMD and AMD was left with a dated fab and no money for R&D pretty much how it has been the last 3 years


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Didn't Intel just bribed the market kept money from AMD and AMD was left with a dated fab and no money for R&D pretty much how it has been the last 3 years


Well the main issue for the past two years was AMD cancelling innovation. Everything else went according to plan or was delayed because of external issues.


----------



## aweir

Give me an FX with the single threaded performance of an i5, less heat output, and you wouldn't even have to drop it from space to get me to buy it.


----------



## PiOfPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Ruiz received a company that was overtaking intel in CPU perf and instead of capitalizing on this, he sat and milked k8 and lost the advantage. Going fabless was a good idea but Ruiz did it with nasty terms. Purchasing ATi was his only saving grace, really.


They were apparently in talks to try and buy out Nvidia before they tried ATI, and Nvidia didn't want quite as much as ATI for the buyout, either. Problem was that JHH insisted that he become CEO of the merged company, and AMD/Ruiz didn't want that.

Thing is, even if JHH was/is a blowhard, he's a good manager. Had AMD bought NV instead of ATI, they would both have saved cash in the short haul, had a better position in the corporate/workstation GPU market, *and* had a consumer base with stronger loyalty. AMD paid way too much for ATI, and that was one of the contributory hiccups to their troubles in the mid-aughts.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir*
> 
> Give me an FX with the single threaded performance of an i5, less heat output, and you wouldn't even have to drop it from space to get me to buy it.


Get out of my brain!

I've been on board with the FX-8's since day one... had a fx-8120, then fx-8350, now fx-9590 and the single threaded performance is just still shy of where I'd like, even at 5ghz.


----------



## southernyankey1970

Great post. I repair/build about 50-75 rigs every year and I completely agree with you. Most people are far from enthusiast level so it's much easier to satify their needs with an apu setup. Economically it just makes so much more sense...I have several apu laptops and they are far more economical than my I7 laptop with dedicated gpu, which is bascally useless due to the fact that the battery life is almost nothing under load...my a8 and my a10 run far longer on battery and are, for me at least, much more useful.


----------



## AlphaC

http://www.slideshare.net/pertonas/amd-2014-computex

AMD slideshare suggests it's a FX mobile APU to compete with low power Haswell i7


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Didn't Intel just bribed the market kept money from AMD and AMD was left with a dated fab and no money for R&D pretty much how it has been the last 3 years


Intel bribed OEMs and has been taking advantage of its leading position to acquire market share with legal and illegal means. All this is well known and documented.Doesn't change the fact that AMD suffered from poor management, no matter how we try to sugarcoat it. We aren't talking about 2004. You simply do not dispose of your mobile graphics department in late 2008 early 2009 when iphone has already proved to the world where the future lies. If AMD didn't have the means to pursue both their traditional market and mobile, they should have dropped some traditional stuff,simple as that. Poor management through and through. Rory Read is much more competent than his predecessors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir*
> 
> Give me an FX with the single threaded performance of an i5, less heat output, and you wouldn't even have to drop it from space to get me to buy it.


You do realize that such a chip (I assume you meant an FX octocore) would cost much more than an i5,almost double that, do you? If you just meant quad etc. just wait a couple of years, their new line will have wide cores, intel style.


----------



## sepiashimmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> You do realize that such a chip (I assume you meant an FX octocore) would cost much more than an i5,almost double that, do you? If you just meant quad etc. just wait a couple of years, their new line will have wide cores, intel style.


And Intel will have something much better at that time so it doesn't matter if they equal their processors' performance to Haswell.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Intel bribed OEMs and has been taking advantage of its leading position to acquire market share with legal and illegal means. All this is well known and documented.Doesn't change the fact that AMD suffered from poor management, no matter how we try to sugarcoat it. We aren't talking about 2004. *You simply do not dispose of your mobile graphics department in late 2008 early 2009 when iphone has already proved to the world where the future lies.* If AMD didn't have the means to pursue both their traditional market and mobile, they should have dropped some traditional stuff,simple as that. Poor management through and through. Rory Read is much more competent than his predecessors.
> You do realize that such a chip (I assume you meant an FX octocore) would cost much more than an i5,almost double that, do you? If you just meant quad etc. just wait a couple of years, their new line will have wide cores, intel style.


Apple phone 1 was... under performing to say the least. What took Apple to evolve the brand into an actual product were some very talented engineers. AMD has done an excellent judgement regarding their position. On what basis? Look at Intel: review editors allegorise the situation as the ship that cannot change its course mid cruise. I have given hope in Intel, past their understatement of netbooks. They understate what they don't know for certain a.k.a counter-innovative.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepiashimmer*
> 
> And Intel will have something much better at that time so it doesn't matter if they equal their processors' performance to Haswell.


You are assuming that ST deficit of AMD can't be reduced because intel is a moving target,evolving as well. While the evolving part is true, the rest not so much. AMD pays a ST performance penalty by choice (a choice that was made years ago)- they sacrificed some of it to deliver higher MT perf. If they are truly dropping their current design in favor of a bigger/more traditional, "wide" core, you should expect a standard quad that is pretty near the performance of an intel i5 (of a comparable process that is). Probably not matching it (I just can't see AMD pulling ahead on traditional x86 perf ever again) but pretty competitive. But in this case they will need something like Hyperthreading else intel will be walking all over them in MT performance. But again it all depends on process used. Intel prepares their own stuff in-house, hopefully AMD can tap into samsung's or whatnot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> Apple phone 1 was... under performing to say the least. What took Apple to evolve the brand into an actual product were some very talented engineers. AMD has done an excellent judgement regarding their position. On what basis? Look at Intel: review editors allegorise the situation as the ship that cannot change its course mid cruise. I have given hope in Intel, past their understatement of netbooks. They understate what they don't know for certain a.k.a counter-innovative.


Just think of Qualcomm. They had the modems,a management with vision and they needed the graphics . AMD had the graphics, could get the modems from elsewhere but lacked the vision. We aren't talking about intel frantically trying to get on the mobile train because they realized their business model is in jeopardy. AMD was in the right place at the right time.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> You are assuming that ST deficit of AMD can't be reduced because intel is a moving target,evolving as well. While the evolving part is true, the rest not so much.


AMD Bulldozer and Bobcat is the first architecture from AMD to be competitive with the successors of i686. Where i686 executed LOAD+PROD+STORE in whole, AMD K6 and beyond could only do LOAD then PROD then STORE. RISC86 kind of sucked for a large majority of AMD's architectures until Intel fudged up with the P68. Which wasn't a really big fudge up it was more of that it was ahead of its time. If Intel used Core instead then around Nehalem went Netburst then it would be a different story.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> AMD pays a ST performance penalty by choice (a choice that was made years ago)- they sacrificed some of it to deliver higher MT perf.


AMD Bulldozer is mostly a single-threaded performance increase. There is no single threaded penalty in CMT only multithreading. With Steamroller, AMD reduced the multithreading penalty by a lot. The changes were making the pipeline more parallel and increasing cache speeds. With Excavator, AMD will be increasing the amount of instructions being executed left by the foundation from Steamroller.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> If they are truly dropping their current design in favor of a bigger/more traditional, "wide" core, you should expect a standard quad that is pretty near the performance of an intel i5 (of a comparable process that is).


I doubt it will be a traditional core but more of a novel core approach that is based on CMT but is not CMT. Cluster Multithreading and Simultaneous Multithreading both replace CMP but have different approaches in doing it. These independent approaches allow CMT and SMT to be fused. There is a few variations already in whitepaper, one is planned to be used by Intel eventually. (Intel is skipping CMT and is going right to the Hybrid-CMT+SMT design)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Probably not matching it (I just can't see AMD pulling ahead on traditional x86 perf ever again) but pretty competitive. But in this case they will need something like Hyperthreading else intel will be walking all over them in MT performance. But again it all depends on process used. Intel prepares their own stuff in-house, hopefully AMD can tap into samsung's or whatnot.


Based on the speed of improvements AMD has gone through with Bulldozer. AMD will catch up to Intel with Excavator and the next gen architectures.

---
Who ever delayed Steamroller and Excavator for improvements wanted the ground work in Steamroller and the functional components in Excavator. The delay was more for Excavator than for Steamroller. Which is why Steamroller did not actually implement more units.

https://www.google.com/patents/US8407455
https://www.google.com/patents/US8127057
https://www.google.com/patents/US20120159084
https://www.google.com/patents/US20120124563
https://www.google.com/patents/US8612694
https://www.google.com/patents/US8543775
https://www.google.com/patents/US8739164

AMD 15h is going to have ASF if doesn't already have ASF. This sort of explains why AMD is skipping Steamroller (40h-4Fh) for the big MPU part and going for Excavator (50h-5Fh).

The more natural implementation of ASF will be in the next-gen architectures.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx*
> 
> AMD Bulldozer is mostly a single-threaded performance increase. There is no single threaded penalty in CMT only multithreading. With Steamroller, AMD reduced the multithreading penalty by a lot. The changes were making the pipeline more parallel and increasing cache speeds. With Excavator, AMD will be increasing the amount of instructions being executed left by the foundation from Steamroller.
> I doubt it will be a traditional core but more of a novel core approach that is based on CMT but is not CMT. Cluster Multithreading and Simultaneous Multithreading both replace CMP but have different approaches in doing it. These independent approaches allow CMT and SMT to be fused. There is a few variations already in whitepaper, one is planned to be used by Intel eventually. (Intel is skipping CMT and is going right to the Hybrid-CMT+SMT design)
> Based on the speed of improvements AMD has gone through with Bulldozer. AMD will catch up to Intel with Excavator and the next gen architectures.


In realistic terms (the way economies of scale work that is) there is a ST penalty exactly because there are die area limitations (you can only make each core that big) and CMT penalty because of design. That's why FX-8150 ,although it had newer tech than Thuban it was often just a sidegrade both for ST and MT workloads. Design has been improving and with it MT performance, but AMD won't be catching up with intel on ST performance without creating huge modules almost equal to two traditional cores in size, therefore defeating the whole CMT idea. Yes ,I too expect excavator to be a pretty big jump over steamroller even for ST workload but it is going to be big.


----------



## maarten12100

http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1353344

First Beema notebook review though I'm not sure whether it is correct or not as Giezhals lists the Lenovo flex 14 as having a M230 incorporated.
I would love an option for Beema chips to run at that 4,5W TDP max instead of 15W so I can enjoy it on the go more. The should be an option for this as it would be a major selling point along with a big battery and a low power quality screen.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> In realistic terms (the way economies of scale work that is) there is a ST penalty exactly because there are die area limitations (you can only make each core that big) and CMT penalty because of design. That's why FX-8150 ,although it had newer tech than Thuban it was often just a sidegrade both for ST and MT workloads. Design has been improving and with it MT performance, but AMD won't be catching up with intel on ST performance without creating huge modules almost equal to two traditional cores in size, therefore defeating the whole CMT idea. Yes ,I too expect excavator to be a pretty big jump over steamroller even for ST workload but it is going to be big.


1 Llano core+L2 = ~85 million transistors / ~16 mm²
1 Bulldozer core (theoretically)+L2 = 106.5 million transistors / 13.77 mm²
2 Llano cores+L2s = ~170 million / ~32 mm²
1 Bulldozer module+ L2 = ~213 million xtors / ~30.9 mm²
1 Llano core = ~35 million xtors / ~9.69 mm²
1 Bulldozer core(theoretically) = ~56.17 million xtors / ~9 mm²

AMD Bulldozer in a CMP configuration would still have more xtors than Llano.

Most of the CMT penalty comes from the size of the WCC which buffers stores that get thrown to the L2. If it was about the same size of Intel's L2 or half it wouldn't be a problem. Effectively, AMD screwed up the design by going for Small L1D, Smaller WCC(Actually L2), Big L2(Actually L3), Big L3(Actually L4). This decision to do this comes from the bad part of the DEC Alpha legacy.

00h/10h;
Arithmetic - Slow
Memory - Fast

15h;
Arithmetic - Fast
Memory - Slow

If AMD can get rid of the dual core L1D <-> L2(Actually L3) penalty. Then, AMD probably doesn't even need to increase the execution units.

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5156/43/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-amds-new-apu-steamroller-vs-piledriver
Most of the fixes in Steamroller are related to how fast instructions and data can be moved. With a potential L1D <-> L2(Actually L3) fix, we could probably see up to a 30% to 40% improvement with the existing units. In the cases where memory is not a bottleneck. Then, it is probably related to execution of specific instructions or in relation to how much varying instructions can be executed.


----------

