# Coffee Lake Binning



## Masterongear

Now that laptops have come a long way I have reconsidered building an i9-7940x for a socketable laptop with the 8700k processor and hopefully soon with an MXM 3.0 GTX1080ti. This laptop is going to be amazing and will be able to handle anything thrown at it, with one of SL top speed i7-8700k. I hate waiting but I know that this combo will be well worth the wait, unless of course the Volta video cards are released by nvidia around the same time. Fun times.


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## isamu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Stay tuned for information on Coffee Lake binning here.
> 
> Are you guys ready for Intel's enhanced 14nm++ process and the first 6 core mainstream Intel processors?


Hello. Yes I am interested in this chip, delidded. Will they available from you on the 5th? In your opinion will it be easily OC'ed to 5.0Ghz with Watercooling and delidded?

Also, do you guys sell motherboards? If so will you have the Z370 available on the same day as the 8700K?


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## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Hello. Yes I am interested in this chip, delidded. Will they available from you on the 5th? In your opinion will it be easily OC'ed to 5.0Ghz with Watercooling and delidded?
> 
> Also, do you guys sell motherboards? If so will you have the Z370 available on the same day as the 8700K?


They should be available within a week or so of consumer availability. I think 5.0 will be fairly common on a delidded chip, but I haven't tested any of them yet myself.

We don't sell motherboards, only processors at this time.


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## jprovido

5.2GHz delidded


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## isamu

OK sounds good. Thank you sir.


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## VeritronX

hoping you get some i5's, I already have one of your 4ghz R7 1700's so I don't need an i7, just a cheap gaming cpu. Should be easier to cool too hopefully.


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## Kashtan

Anything, i3, i5, or i7 - only highest frequency interested for me. So... Waiting binning.


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## AlphaC

Interested in what motherboards you will be using ? Looks like the Z370 Maximus X Hero & Z370 Taichi will be strong contenders but given that the socket will not last I would hope Asus Z370-A will also be used , or something such as a Z70 Fatal1ty K6 (presumably cheaper than Taichi / Extreme4 ) if not a MSI Z370 SLI PLUS.


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## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Interested in what motherboards you will be using ? Looks like the Z370 Maximus X Hero & Z370 Taichi will be strong contenders but given that the socket will not last I would hope Asus Z370-A will also be used , or something such as a Z70 Fatal1ty K6 (presumably cheaper than Taichi / Extreme4 ) if not a MSI Z370 SLI PLUS.


We'll be testing a few different board brands, will probably be using the Asus hero board as a baseline as usual. Hopefully we'll be able to expand our QVL a bit.


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## stangflyer

I signed up on your website to be emailed when you have the 8700k ready. I used a razor blade on my Ivy Bridge build in 2012 but I am letting you do this one. I usually upgrade every 3 years but as we all know cpu performance has stagnated somewhat.

When the 8700k is ready so am I. I hear the Silicon Lottery team does great work! Looking forward to a new build!









Now if ram prices would come down!


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## sonano

Will stock be limited at the initial release and will there be pre-orders? Just wondering if it'll be hard to get my hands on a 8700K close to the release date, it'll be my first time ordering off Silicon Lottery.


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## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonano*
> 
> Will stock be limited at the initial release and will there be pre-orders? Just wondering if it'll be hard to get my hands on a 8700K close to the release date, it'll be my first time ordering off Silicon Lottery.


We're going to get as many tested as we possibly can before they go up. Launches can get a little crazy though. We don't do pre-orders, but even if we sell out of a certain bin we'll constantly be restocking them as we get more processors in and tested.


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## unityole

waited forever, time to get it


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## Nickedit

Yes, I'm soooo ready for 6 cores!

My 4-core i7-2700K turned out to be the best money I ever spent on a PC part. It's been running at 4.8GHz (1.43 vCore) for 6 years of gaming. I haven't even reapplied thermal paste, lol! I hope to get similar longevity out of a delidded 6-core 8700K.

Each new generation of Intel's mainstream 4-core CPU has been incremental and disappointing. The 8700K with 6 cores and overclock potential is finally worth the cost to me. More and more games are finally taking advantage of more than 4 cores. Also, having modern features like an NVMe boot drive and PCIe 3.0 support will be nice.

I've been watching and reading about Silicon Lottery for a few years now and I'm really looking forward to my first purchase from you.


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## SsXxX

sign me up


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## bl4ckdot

I'm in.


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## krayiss

I saw no pre-orders but I would like to pre-order 1 8700k 5.5ghz!


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## Neapolitan6th

It's a shame the 4 core models are less popular. I kind of loved the thought of buying the highest bin (5.3ghz+) part. Because it would be cheaper of course. Since I already have a 6800k haha... I just wish that thing overclocked well... Buyers remorse. I suppose a unbinned 8350k wouldn't be bad since you could just nuke it with voltage and not feel too bad if it died.


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## isamu

Sounds good but does this concern you?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=250774631&postcount=236

If this proves to be true, what will you do about keeping the chip in stock?


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## dayveegravy

Put me down for a delidded 8700k @ 5ghz. My faithful 2700k is starting to show its age, as is the mobo. Gonna get an asus hero although the 12 phase asrocks are tempting. But the aesthetics and onboard audio of the asus and msi mobos are very nice. Wait for the roundups. First order of business is to get a cpu from SL.


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## unityole

ugh...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Stay tuned for information on Coffee Lake binning here.
> 
> Are you guys ready for Intel's enhanced 14nm++ process and the first 6 core mainstream Intel processors?


someone else asked but i'd also like to know. will the CFL 8700k shortage cause issue at launch?


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## DrRepiv

A question about the delidded but non-graded chips you're offering - are they units that failed binning, or just random units that haven't gone through bin testing at all?

I ask because the prices seem remarkably low ($360 for a delidded 8700K versus $380 for a regular one from Newegg) so I'm wondering how you're making a profit on these if they're not failed bins.


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## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unityole*
> 
> ugh...
> someone else asked but i'd also like to know. will the CFL 8700k shortage cause issue at launch?


Unfortunately it looks like it might. We might not get to launch as early as I'd like depending on how long it takes for us to get a suitable launch inventory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrRepiv*
> 
> A question about the delidded but non-graded chips you're offering - are they units that failed binning, or just random units that haven't gone through bin testing at all?
> 
> I ask because the prices seem remarkably low ($360 for a delidded 8700K versus $380 for a regular one from Newegg) so I'm wondering how you're making a profit on these if they're not failed bins.


We don't offer non-tested chips. Those product pages are just placeholders.


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## Silicon Lottery

I should have an ETA by the end of the week.


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## VRoman

Sign me up for two 8600k @ 5500MHz and one 8350k. Or whatever the highest frequencies will be


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## foxlite

Cant wait, hoping for an 8700k at or above 5300MHz running below 1.4v, my name's on your mailing list for chip availability. More than likely snapping up an ASUS board ASAP tommorrow upon commercial release, if I can get my hands on one...Actually waiting this release out, thank you for removing the hunger games aspect of cpu purchasing!

Would love to see some binned gpu's from you guys, even just raw unshrouded reference boards flashed with oc drivers would be choice!









Looking forward too the release!


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## HamburgerPls

Hi, It may be a bit early but how much do you think your highest binned delidded 8700k will cost? Thanks


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## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HamburgerPls*
> 
> Hi, It may be a bit early but how much do you think your highest binned delidded 8700k will cost? Thanks


That would depend on how rare the highest bin is.

Pricing will be determined when we launch.


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## TGHaworth

Ordered my motherboard today, can't wait to get my loop set up and get a SL chip!


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## isamu

Where are you guys ordering motherboards? I'm checking Amazon and Newegg but doesn't look like they're up yet?

Also can anyone recommend the best Ram for these new chips? Right now I'm still on DDR3


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## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Where are you guys ordering motherboards? I'm checking Amazon and Newegg but doesn't look like they're up yet?
> 
> Also can anyone recommend the best Ram for these new chips? Right now I'm still on DDR3


Samsung B-die 8GB sticks seem to be some of the best you can get, looking for a 2x8GB kit rated at 3200C14 1.35v will get you those.

Plus those are also the best for AMD Ryzen so you can use them with any ddr4 system in the future with good results.


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## UtopiA

8700K Newegg is on backorder for 15-20 days. Amazon US hasn't listed any at all, and it looks like their UK store took all the US stock.

This is a pretty weak launch. Going to be several weeks before we see mainstream availability.


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## isamu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> Samsung B-die 8GB sticks seem to be some of the best you can get, looking for a 2x8GB kit rated at 3200C14 1.35v will get you those.
> 
> Plus those are also the best for AMD Ryzen so you can use them with any ddr4 system in the future with good results.


Thank you sir!

What about motherboards? Which one of these three would you guys go with?

A)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144104&cm_re=MSI_Z370-_-13-144-104-_-Product

B)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119033&cm_re=ASUS_RoG_STRIX_Z370-_-13-119-033-_-Product

C)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145036&cm_re=AORUS_Z370-_-13-145-036-_-Product

.....?


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## isamu

Veritron what about a pair of these? Will they work?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232606&cm_re=G.SKILL_TridentZ-_-20-232-606-_-Product


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## Enad1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Veritron what about a pair of these? Will they work?
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232606&cm_re=G.SKILL_TridentZ-_-20-232-606-_-Product


3866 is pretty high but it's likely to work on some of the higher end boards. The thing you have to be aware is that even though basically all the Z370 boards say they support up to 4133...or 4333Mhz, that varies based on the type of RAM. For example, the GSKILL RGB ram seems to favor ASUS. I could get 3800Mhz on my 4133Mhz kit on a Z270 Formula, but only 3600Mhz on an AsRock Z270 Supercarrier and Aorus Z270X Gaming 9.

Things may be different this generation but my point is that it's hard to say any specific kit of ram will work at that rated speed without testing it specifically.


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## oldowl2

Put me down for an 8700k at a high clock speed, coming from Sandy Bridge this seems like this generation is finally worth the upgrade. Ice Lake is still too far away and I cant wait 1-2 years! Eyeing down that Asus X Hero to pair up to this, should have everything I need.

-Marc


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## Roguecloud

Interested in your 8700k delid; any ETA for restock?


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## Thrakazog

I just learned about you guys from the Gamers Nexus Coffee Lake review.

Looks like it's time to finally upgrade from an i7-2600k machine.

I look forward to purchasing a binned+delidded 8700k from you.

I plan on using the ASUS APEX z370 board. Hopefully it's acceptable.


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## hapkiman

Any idea how the temps might be improved after delidding on the 8700k. I have read that it is right in line with the i7 7700k temp wise.

So possibly the idle temps would be in the 20s (C) after delidding? And around ~50C under load with a moderate OC of say 4.7GHz on all 6 cores? Or is that too optimistic?

Just wondering because I am considering ordering one from Silicon Lottery as soon as they are available. But after reading a few of the reviews, I am worried it might still run warm, even after delidding.

I like to OC but I'm not worried about hitting 5GHz or pushing it to the max. I would take a medium OC and cool temps vs. high OC and running hot.


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## outofmyheadyo

Why do you care if your cpu is at 50 or 70c ? Why does it matter ? Just push it as far as it will go, while adding adequate cooling, the end.


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## WexleySnoops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Why do you care if your cpu is at 50 or 70c ? Why does it matter ? Just push it as far as it will go, while adding adequate cooling, the end.


A cool component is a happy component







.


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## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WexleySnoops*
> 
> A cool component is a happy component
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yes but what does it matter if it`s 50 or 70 ? Do you care if it works for 10 or 12 years ?


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## UtopiA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Yes but what does it matter if it`s 50 or 70 ? Do you care if it works for 10 or 12 years ?


Because a 50C CPU has 20C more OC headroom than 70C...


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## outofmyheadyo

Headroom to what ? if ur capped oc at 70 it does not matter if its 50 or 70...


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## UtopiA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Headroom to what ? if ur capped oc at 70 it does not matter if its 50 or 70...


Who is hitting a voltage ceiling @ 70C without a delid? Custom loop, perhaps (a lot lower than 70C)? Most people still run air / aio. They need a delid to do what you're describing.


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## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Headroom to what ? if ur capped oc at 70 it does not matter if its 50 or 70...


I dont recall the exact numbers that silicon lottery gave me about his rig...its in PMs...too lazy to look but it was something like for every 10C you get an extra 50mhz or something for skylake/kaby. Thats how his kaby was about to get 5.5-5.7GHz on phase so lower temps do result in better clocks.

70C vs 50C core temps would result in a noticable difference in stability...possibly better clocks.

It has been discussed on these forums in the past.

I doubt this is what he was referring to but i am being highly technical here


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## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Stay tuned for information on Coffee Lake binning here.
> 
> Are you guys ready for Intel's enhanced 14nm++ process and the first 6 core mainstream Intel processors?


I would love to know what kind of clocks you get on the 8350K Techpowerup got a complete dud of one. If this thing clocks a lot higher than the 8700K I could be interested but i doubt anyone would be intrested if it didnt clock at least 300mhz higher since it lacks HT and that hurts SL performance.

Any news on what clocks you are finding on the 8350K? Any 5.5GHz or higher? What are you seeing with the 8700K? 5-5.2GHz?


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## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> I should have an ETA by the end of the week.


Supply is bleak, aye?


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## thebski

Hoping for a 5.3 bin. If we see that I'll forego the 7820X for one.


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## mouacyk

GamerNexus topped out at 4.9GHz and 1.4v delidded with CONDUCTONAUT. :|


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## UtopiA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> GamerNexus topped out at 4.9GHz and 1.4v delidded with CONDUCTONAUT. :|


Some retailers are selling 5.2 bins. GN got a dud, perhaps.


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## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> GamerNexus topped out at 4.9GHz and 1.4v delidded with CONDUCTONAUT. :|


I only watched/read a hand full of reviews, but I think all of their chips were capable of 5.1 to 5.2 without delid. I hadn't seen GN, but if it topped out at 4.9 I would say they definitely had a dud.


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## UtopiA

Store page says ETA October 20th, by the way.
It was updated at some point.

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-1151

It also seems Kaby Lake was pulled.


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## Thrakazog

Reviewers are typically sent top level binned chips. I think GN just received a more typical consumer model, instead of the binned reviewer chip.

The same thing happened with skylake-x. OC3D TV was having no problems overclocking the skylake-x chips he got from Intel.

Then he went out and bought one from a local retailer, and it was a HOT mess of overheating and OC problems.

That is the reason my new systems cpu will be coming from here.


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## foxlite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> Reviewers are typically sent top level binned chips. I think GN just received a more typical consumer model, instead of the binned reviewer chip.
> 
> Great points, I had a similar experience with my 6700k, just a dud overclocker, I'm being patient for this release. Coupled with what you mentioned it's important to watch some more testing of the mobos that the chips are being tested on. I have seen some pretty negative revoews on the new z370 gigabyte and msi boards, asus seems to have it more dialed in. Waiting to see the best board to pair with a binned chip from silicon lottery.
> 
> The same thing happened with skylake-x. OC3D TV was having no problems overclocking the skylake-x chips he got from Intel.
> 
> Then he went out and bought one from a local retailer, and it was a HOT mess of overheating and OC problems.
> 
> That is the reason my new systems cpu will be coming from here.


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## Gobstoppable

Can you give us a ballpark idea of what the 8700ks will run? I know you said the 359.99 price is just their as a place holder, so what kind of ballpark can we expect? Like starting at 380+ depending on how high they bin? Interested in attempting to delid on my own, but if I can get an 8700k already delidded for what I would spend to do it my self, then I would definitely want to purchase one from SL instead. The fact that you offer a year warranty speak volumes, we definitely make me feel more comfortable then doing it myself knowing it will void my intel warranty


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## Snaporz

Probably at least a $200 premium for the highest binned chip.


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## UtopiA

$600: Non-delidded 7820X vs delidded 8700K?


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## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Why do you care if your cpu is at 50 or 70c ? Why does it matter ? Just push it as far as it will go, while adding adequate cooling, the end.


I just wanted to second your sentiment here. All things being the same except a core frequency and voltage...whatever brings 70c will out preform 50. No phase change etc. More power to those looking for less performance and cooler temps, but like you, I can't fathom why this is desirable.


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## Telstar

I'm really interested to know the % of oc that the 8700k will reach. ES chips went anywhere from 4,8 to 5,2.
I expect 50% of the chips to do 4,9 @1,30 maybe better or worse...


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## hapkiman

If it matters to me then it matters to me. If if doesn't matter to you then - awesome for you. But you don't speak for me, or everyone for that matter.

I don't want high temps. And if I consider 70C hot, then to me- it is hot, and I don't want *my* rig running at 70C. Stable or not.

That matters to me.


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## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hapkiman*
> 
> If it matters to me then it matters to me. If if doesn't matter to you then - awesome for you. But you don't speak for me, or everyone for that matter.
> 
> I don't want high temps. And if I consider 70C hot, then to me- it is hot, and I don't want *my* rig running at 70C. Stable or not.
> 
> That matters to me.


Like I said, more power [and less performance/overclock(DOT NET)] to you bud. I'm from North Dakota and anything above 20C is too hot for my tastes, but Intel's chips don't give a damn. SL can help with lessening temps *and/or* getting more performance


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## unityole

ducegt is that you?

trolling aside, 70c is still good, 50c is way too low, someone paranoid much.


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## LukeT32

I am also ready to upgrade from my 4790k to an 8700k.... I've been saving my bitcoin up to purchase the upgrade!


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## dayveegravy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Where are you guys ordering motherboards? I'm checking Amazon and Newegg but doesn't look like they're up yet?
> 
> Also can anyone recommend the best Ram for these new chips? Right now I'm still on DDR3


Because there is a ram shortage at the moment with no signs of it ending soon. Id buy some cheap 2133 cl14 kingtston hyperx right now. It can overclock past 3ghz. Then in the future when ram is cheap you can upgrade later to 32gb. More Gb is better than high mhz for gaming as a general rule.


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## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dayveegravy*
> 
> More Gb is better than high mhz for gaming as a general rule.


Not sure where you're coming up with that. If you aren't running out of memory, then more capacity isn't going to do anything for you. That memory speed isn't that important is such a common misconception, especially when concerning minimum frame rates.

I'll admit I'm not real up to date on the latest and greatest titles of 2017, but I'm unaware of any games that really benefit from having more than 16 GB of memory.


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## dayveegravy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Not sure where you're coming up with that. If you aren't running out of memory, then more capacity isn't going to do anything for you. That memory speed isn't that important is such a common misconception, especially when concerning minimum frame rates.
> 
> I'll admit I'm not real up to date on the latest and greatest titles of 2017, but I'm unaware of any games that really benefit from having more than 16 GB of memory.


Never said titles benefit from more than 16gb. What I said was in the future when they do you can upgrade to 32gb cheaply by waiting out the ram shortage. The ram I suggested also clocks past 3ghz. So he can save around 30% by doing it himself.

Its kind of common knowledge that if you have less ram than the recommended setting then the speed of your expensive high mhz ram is not going to make up for that shortfall. When I said Gbs are better than mhz thats what was meant.

For ram speed tests on intel see: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gaming-benchmarks-ddr4-2133-mhz-vs-ddr4-3000-mhz-core-i7-6700k.231776/

Before you point out that there are exceptions like Arma 3, you mite notice I qualified my statement as a general rule, that meaning it has a small n.o of exceptions.

So to answer your first question thats where I got this from.


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## isamu

ETA pushed back again til the 27th









https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/8700k


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## HamburgerPls

Nooooo... Already sold my 7700k now I won't have a Pc for 3 weeks.


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## isamu

Yeah it blows. I ordered a PS4 Pro and will play GT Sport to tide me over til then.


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## HamburgerPls

Hopefully it will go bye quick, because I am missing Project Cars 2 and Titanfall.


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## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dayveegravy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Never said titles benefit from more than 16gb. What I said was in the future when they do you can upgrade to 32gb cheaply by waiting out the ram shortage. The ram I suggested also clocks past 3ghz. So he can save around 30% by doing it himself.
> 
> Its kind of common knowledge that if you have less ram than the recommended setting then the speed of your expensive high mhz ram is not going to make up for that shortfall. When I said Gbs are better than mhz thats what was meant.
> 
> For ram speed tests on intel see: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gaming-benchmarks-ddr4-2133-mhz-vs-ddr4-3000-mhz-core-i7-6700k.231776/
> 
> Before you point out that there are exceptions like Arma 3, you mite notice I qualified my statement as a general rule, that meaning it has a small n.o of exceptions.
> 
> So to answer your first question thats where I got this from.


I gotcha. I guess I read your original post as saying that performance will increase as you keep increasing capacity, which isn't what you meant.

Anything that uses heavy CPU is more likely to benefit from faster memory. For example, I notice in the benches you posted, they had BF1 in there. I also noticed it was the single player version, which is mostly dependent on the GPU. I'd be curious to see how that changes for multiplayer, which is much more popular and much more dependent on the CPU. I did some tests when BF4 first came out and memory speed definitely made a difference when playing multiplayer.


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## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> ETA pushed back again til the 27th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/8700k


Seems like a pretty bad launch by Intel. Almost a paper one. Newegg sold out how quick?


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## UtopiA

Newegg sold out at 5 AM a day BEFORE launch. They've been backordered since then and their next shipment will be sometime between the end of October and the first week of December according to their CS (mixed responses).


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Newegg sold out at 5 AM a day BEFORE launch. They've been backordered since then and their next shipment will be sometime between the end of October and the first week of December according to their CS (mixed responses).


Oh ya definitely a paper launch. Decided I'm going to skip this series.

My Silicon Lottery 6950X is still working flawlessly.


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## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dayveegravy*
> 
> Never said titles benefit from more than 16gb. What I said was in the future when they do you can upgrade to 32gb cheaply by waiting out the ram shortage. The ram I suggested also clocks past 3ghz. So he can save around 30% by doing it himself.
> 
> Its kind of common knowledge that if you have less ram than the recommended setting then the speed of your expensive high mhz ram is not going to make up for that shortfall. When I said Gbs are better than mhz thats what was meant.
> 
> For ram speed tests on intel see: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gaming-benchmarks-ddr4-2133-mhz-vs-ddr4-3000-mhz-core-i7-6700k.231776/
> 
> Before you point out that there are exceptions like Arma 3, you mite notice I qualified my statement as a general rule, that meaning it has a small n.o of exceptions.
> 
> So to answer your first question thats where I got this from.


yea i didnt get your original post either...whether your back tracking or didnt convey it right....it doesnt really matter..i read it like ***?!?!? lol hahha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HamburgerPls*
> 
> Nooooo... Already sold my 7700k now I won't have a Pc for 3 weeks.


complusive mistake....it happens...always have a spare rig man!!!!!!!!

my 4.8 GHz SL SKL rig is SOL ATM so using my 1650v3 server as back up lol


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## Silicon Lottery

Little bit of information here for those that don't know. "ETA" is an estimate, my best guess off the current information I have available. "Available on" means they will be launching on that date.

I have plenty of 8350Ks to go ahead and launch on Monday, but not nearly enough 8600Ks or 8700Ks. I'm drilling suppliers as best as I can, but there just doesn't seem to be much stock anywhere.

The 8350Ks unfortunately aren't clocking as high as the 8600K/8700K. In fact, they're clocking a little bit lower than Kaby Lake 7600Ks.

Also to note, frequency statistics are coming back and will be available for all Coffee Lake CPUs when we launch.


----------



## Setfree

Do we know the estimate for clocks? 5.2 max?


----------



## Hydroplane

I'd be interested in a delidded 8700K. But I'm concerned about availability.


----------



## Setfree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> I'd be interested in a delidded 8700K. But I'm concerned about availability.


yea I have a feeling most of us won't see them for another month. MOST


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Also to note, frequency statistics are coming back and will be available for all Coffee Lake CPUs when we launch.


Can you give us a little sneak peak into the overclocking statistics? Maybe give us a rough estimate of how likely it is to get 5Ghz out of a retail processor?


----------



## Setfree

From what I understand getting 4.9-5 Ghz is a good chance without delidding or bin. Like I said GOOD chance. Not 100%. And even then temps are high without delidding. But I don't know first hand. Just what I've seen heard.


----------



## Setfree

I'm just hoping silicon lottery is cheaper than case king. If it is I might try to slide a 5.2ghz or higher into my build.


----------



## Kanashimu

I would think 4.9 Ghz should be a given for most people on high end air or a typical AIO. If we subtract 100 Mhz from the general consensus of reviewer OCs, we can probably get what real life overclocks are like. This isn't something unique to Intel; if you believed the Ryzen 1700 reviews, it seemed like everyone could get 4 Ghz easily, but only about 30% of production 1700s could get there.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Little bit of information here for those that don't know. "ETA" is an estimate, my best guess off the current information I have available. "Available on" means they will be launching on that date.
> 
> I have plenty of 8350Ks to go ahead and launch on Monday, but not nearly enough 8600Ks or 8700Ks. I'm drilling suppliers as best as I can, but there just doesn't seem to be much stock anywhere.
> 
> _*The 8350Ks unfortunately aren't clocking as high as the 8600K/8700K. In fact, they're clocking a little bit lower than Kaby Lake 7600Ks.*_
> 
> Also to note, frequency statistics are coming back and will be available for all Coffee Lake CPUs when we launch.


that is surprising and highly disappointing. I was looking forward to a really fast single thread quad core :/


----------



## VRoman

I got one 8350k for work to be my office pc. I didn't want to wait... The result is that I might just send it back to newegg and get something from SL. :-( 4.5GHz, 1.3v, 100'C under prime.

Asrock z370m pro4 is not compatible with ddr4 3000 from g.skill. The only working speed is 2133 with timings as low as 11-11-11-26. Nothing else including XMP profile won't boot. Even 2200 - no start! 2800 starts, but it's unstable. Asrock messed up with this bios big time.


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VRoman*
> 
> I got one 8350k for work to be my office pc. I didn't want to wait... The result is that I might just send it back to newegg and get something from SL. :-( 4.5GHz, 1.3v, 100'C under prime.
> 
> Asrock z370m pro4 is not compatible with ddr4 3000 from g.skill. The only working speed is 2133 with timings as low as 11-11-11-26. Nothing else including XMP profile won't boot. Even 2200 - no start! 2800 starts, but it's unstable. Asrock messed up with this bios big time.


What kind of cooling?


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Setfree*
> 
> yea I have a feeling most of us won't see them for another month. MOST


If I could buy one today for under $400 (preferably delidded) I would. I saw a few on ebay but at ripoff prices.

The high end Core i9 chips (7940X, 7980XE) are also missing in action. I may wind up going AMD instead, I'm not very patient


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> If I could buy one today for under $400 (preferably delidded) I would. I saw a few on ebay but at ripoff prices.
> 
> The high end Core i9 chips (7940X, 7980XE) are also missing in action. I may wind up going AMD instead, I'm not very patient


only AMD worth while is thread ripper if you actually have highly threaded work load needs and assuming your budget conscious.


----------



## VRoman

I got Thermalright Silver Arrow on my 8350k. The temperature difference between the CPU core and the coolers base is up to 69'C !! That tells me that this chip needs deliding very-very bad.


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Thank you sir!
> 
> What about motherboards? Which one of these three would you guys go with?
> 
> A)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144104&cm_re=MSI_Z370-_-13-144-104-_-Product
> 
> B)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119033&cm_re=ASUS_RoG_STRIX_Z370-_-13-119-033-_-Product
> 
> C)https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145036&cm_re=AORUS_Z370-_-13-145-036-_-Product
> 
> .....?


I would go for the Strix or Aorus personally.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Veritron what about a pair of these? Will they work?
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232606&cm_re=G.SKILL_TridentZ-_-20-232-606-_-Product


Possibly, but you have to watch out if going higher than 3200 / 3466 with these platforms, the motherboards crank up some of the secondary voltages to do higher than 3466mhz ram and that leads to higher cpu temps and possible degradation of the memory controller in the chip over time. I'd highly recommend getting a 3200C14 kit.. they can also do 3466C15 almost guaranteed.


----------



## Hydroplane

I'm surprised there is way more demand for the 8700K than the 8600K. Some of the reviews I read suggest there is no real difference between the two for gaming. Are the extra 6 threads worth it nowadays?


----------



## jellybeans69

4.8/4.9 IBT linpack max stress test seems to be very easy and temps don't go over 80 during it (Noctua DH-15s)

Too bad 5 ghz requires like 1.45v+ for it to be Maximum memory IBT stress test stable , it's benchable at way less than that though. 1.424v load was not enough to pass IBT @ 5ghz.
4.9 might be doable for 24/7 stability though both prim95/ibt etc...

Batch L728B630 if anybody's interested


----------



## Thrakazog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> I would go for the Strix or Aorus personally.
> Possibly, but you have to watch out if going higher than 3200 / 3466 with these platforms, the motherboards crank up some of the secondary voltages to do higher than 3466mhz ram and that leads to higher cpu temps and possible degradation of the memory controller in the chip over time. I'd highly recommend getting a 3200C14 kit.. they can also do 3466C15 almost guaranteed.


ASUS Strix 370 boards all have a voltage droop problem atm. It was apparently reported to ASUS by some large PC and PC part retailers, and youtube tech reviewers, but they still haven't fixed it.

One of the youtube tech reviewers went ahead and made the problem public, since it still wasn't fixed.

It "should" be fixable with a bios update in the future, but as of now, all the STRIX z370 boards are not suitable for OC because of the voltage issue.


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> ASUS Strix 370 boards all have a voltage droop problem atm. It was apparently reported to ASUS by some large PC and PC part retailers, and youtube tech reviewers, but they still haven't fixed it.
> 
> One of the youtube tech reviewers went ahead and made the problem public, since it still wasn't fixed.
> 
> It "should" be fixable with a bios update in the future, but as of now, all the STRIX z370 boards are not suitable for OC because of the voltage issue.


That's disappointing, I loved my z87 and z97 asus boards because they would hold the voltage steady within a couple of mv regardless what type of load I ran.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

8350Ks will be going up tonight at 7PM CST.


----------



## optional

New layout looks good. I'm hoping to snag a chip.


----------



## TGHaworth

Hmm, how well did they end up overclocking/performing I wonder.


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> 8350Ks will be going up tonight at 7PM CST.


4.8 through 5.2, nice









59% of 8350K were able to hit 5 GHz!!!! Sure, the 6 cores are a little nicer than 4... but they practically don't exist right now.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> 4.8 through 5.2, nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 59% of 8350K were able to hit 5 GHz!!!! Sure, the 6 cores are a little nicer than 4... but they practically don't exist right now.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> The 8350Ks unfortunately aren't clocking as high as the 8600K/8700K. In fact, they're clocking a little bit lower than Kaby Lake 7600Ks.


This gives me high hopes for the 8700K's.


----------



## krayiss

Voltages high on 8350k?

8350k;
4.8 - 96%, $185 (10%), 1.4v
4.9 - 82%, $195 (16%), 1.412
5.0 - 59%, $215 (28%), 1.425
5.1 - 27%, $255 (52%), 1.437
5.2 - 14%, $315 (86%), 1.45

ocUK doesnt have voltages for 8350k, but their 8700k 5.0-5.2 show 1.35-1.425.
(Also SL has great prices comparing ocUK's 8350k's no/delid, 8700k delid)

Is this because Siliconlottery said they do not clock as high as 8600/8700ks?


----------



## sdch

Since LLC isn't working yet, what were those voltages actually drooping to?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdch*
> 
> Since LLC isn't working yet, what were those voltages actually drooping to?


These are the actual voltages being applied. The Asus Hero boards are working correctly.


----------



## Champo

I havent delided my 8600k and it reached stable 5.2Ghs, at sub 70. Should i really delid? How long does this take from canada?


----------



## acewinters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> These are the actual voltages being applied. The Asus Hero boards are working correctly.


So I'm looking into buying a chip from you, what board should I get so I have it ready when the chip arrives.

Edit: Fixed wording


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acewinters*
> 
> So I'm looking into buying a chip from you, what board should I get so I have it ready when the chip arrives.
> 
> Edit: Fixed wording


Asrock is releasing BIOS updates now to address the droop issue. Any of the boards here and you should be set: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Champo*
> 
> I havent delided my 8600k and it reached stable 5.2Ghs, at sub 70. Should i really delid? How long does this take from canada?


Expect around 1.5-2 weeks of downtime assuming standard post/priority mail both ways. Delid if you want more thermal headroom to allow you to push voltages further.


----------



## sdch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> These are the actual voltages being applied. The Asus Hero boards are working correctly.


Got it, thank you.


----------



## acewinters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Asrock is releasing BIOS updates now to address the droop issue. Any of the boards here and you should be set: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


Awesome a wide selection too. Also super quick reply, you guys are awesome. Looking forward to getting a chip soon, but I have a quick question you might not be able to answer at the moment, but can we hope to see a 5.2ghz 8700k cpu under $450?


----------



## Champo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Expect around 1.5-2 weeks of downtime assuming standard post/priority mail both ways. Delid if you want more thermal headroom to allow you to push voltages further.


Thanks for the reply, i think i will do it around the winter holidays then, the results should be the same as new right?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acewinters*
> 
> Awesome a wide selection too. Also super quick reply, you guys are awesome. Looking forward to getting a chip soon, but I have a quick question you might not be able to answer at the moment, but can we hope to see a 5.2ghz 8700k cpu under $450?


Sorry, we'll have pricing available at launch. We need more data internally to set prices.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Champo*
> 
> Thanks for the reply, i think i will do it around the winter holidays then, the results should be the same as new right?


I'm not sure I understand your question here exactly.


----------



## unityole

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Sorry, we'll have pricing available at launch. We need more data internally to set prices.
> I'm not sure I understand your question here exactly.


the voltage for 8350k you listed for different frequency is quite high. do you think its just the worst case scenario usage? ie avx workload, p95 full stress test at voltage higher than needed just in case is that how SL rates the voltage for chips or the bare minimum.

also another question, 14% of 8350k can hit 5.2ghz or greater, are there any chips can do 5.3ghz maybe 1-2% could but not listed as an option.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unityole*
> 
> the voltage for 8350k you listed for different frequency is quite high. do you think its just the worst case scenario usage? ie avx workload, p95 full stress test at voltage higher than needed just in case is that how SL rates the voltage for chips or the bare minimum.
> 
> also another question, 14% of 8350k can hit 5.2ghz or greater, are there any chips can do 5.3ghz maybe 1-2% could but not listed as an option.


I mean you're right, only under the most stressful scenarios is the voltage we list required. As we're aiming for complete stability, we have to leave some headroom in.

We didn't have any hit 5.3.


----------



## unityole

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> I mean you're right, only under the most stressful scenarios is the voltage we list required. As we're aiming for complete stability, we have to leave some headroom in.
> 
> We didn't have any hit 5.3.


so what would you consider as heaviest workload? also if the voltage you listed includes heaviest load, why would avx be an additional -2?


----------



## kingduqc

How is the degradation at 1.45v? Seems high


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unityole*
> 
> so what would you consider as heaviest workload? also if the voltage you listed includes heaviest load, why would avx be an additional -2?


Heaviest SSE load for the frequency listed, such as P95 26.6. And also a heavy AVX load like linpack for an AVX load.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> How is the degradation at 1.45v? Seems high


Shouldn't be a problem over a typical life of the chip. We also offer our warranty so you could swap it out if you notice degradation. The only degradation I've witnessed over the years is from too much current being pulled, and at 1.45V these quads aren't pulling dangerous levels of current.


----------



## Mysticial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> The only degradation I've witnessed over the years is from too much current being pulled, and at 1.45V these quads aren't pulling dangerous levels of current.


That might be useful to tell the 7980XE people. Since I imagine all of them with custom water to be pulling 500W+. This shouldn't be a problem for the casual gamers who leave the chip idle most of the time. But definitely those on folding projects.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acewinters*
> 
> Awesome a wide selection too. Also super quick reply, you guys are awesome. Looking forward to getting a chip soon, but I have a quick question you might not be able to answer at the moment, but can we hope to see a 5.2ghz 8700k cpu under $450?


Only $60 more for 5.2 GHz? I hope you aren't serious. SL wouldn't be in business with that business case.


----------



## UtopiA

Look at other binned stores for an idea.
5.2 will be $600 but that's my educated guess. Anything less will be a pleasant surprise for me...


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Asrock is releasing BIOS updates now to address the droop issue. Any of the boards here and you should be set: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


Hey I'm just curious why the Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 isn't listed , OCUK lists it as a good board


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Asrock is releasing BIOS updates now to address the droop issue. Any of the boards here and you should be set: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


would you be willing to sell top tear motherboard with top tier binned chips as a set? You test a MB and CPU and sell them as a set as working under X Specs lol?

We have PMed extensively and you know how cursed i am lol. And i am far more cursed than our PMs allude to lol...you have no idea hahah.

A fair price with a none glitched MB with a binned CPU would mean a lot to me since everything i buy is broken as frack lol. Biggest geek in the world never can buy a none glitched product TT

In the last 5 years i buy i highest rated and quality stuff and the crap still glitches or has weird ass issues TT

Networking is the worst thing ever for me roflopter


----------



## acewinters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Only $60 more for 5.2 GHz? I hope you aren't serious. SL wouldn't be in business with that business case.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Look at other binned stores for an idea.
> 5.2 will be $600 but that's my educated guess. Anything less will be a pleasant surprise for me...


Crap my bad I mean $550 not $450. But still hoping for about the 550-600 price range


----------



## unityole

give me one at 5.3ghz under 1.4v pls thanks lottery!


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysticial*
> 
> That might be useful to tell the 7980XE people. Since I imagine all of them with custom water to be pulling 500W+. This shouldn't be a problem for the casual gamers who leave the chip idle most of the time. But definitely those on folding projects.


Yeah, we're binning 7980XEs in the realm of 1.10V-1.162V because of this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Hey I'm just curious why the Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 isn't listed , OCUK lists it as a good board


We just haven't validated it ourselves at this point, doesn't mean it isn't a good board.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> would you be willing to sell top tear motherboard with top tier binned chips as a set? You test a MB and CPU and sell them as a set as working under X Specs lol?
> 
> We have PMed extensively and you know how cursed i am lol. And i am far more cursed than our PMs allude to lol...you have no idea hahah.
> 
> A fair price with a none glitched MB with a binned CPU would mean a lot to me since everything i buy is broken as frack lol. Biggest geek in the world never can buy a none glitched product TT
> 
> In the last 5 years i buy i highest rated and quality stuff and the crap still glitches or has weird ass issues TT
> 
> Networking is the worst thing ever for me roflopter


Unfortunately this is outside the realm of what we offer. Who's to say a board we pick out couldn't also start having issues down the line? It'd probably be best to just purchase a board from an authorized seller and take advantage of the manufacturers warranty if needed.


----------



## digix

I heard the DHL courier knowing the additional shipping costs, VAT and customs duties should know about the size of the package and the weight for an i8700k (the weight I think is similar to the already available 8350k processor)
Obviously, to decide on the purchase, I must first have this information


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digix*
> 
> I heard the DHL courier knowing the additional shipping costs, VAT and customs duties should know about the size of the package and the weight for an i8700k (the weight I think is similar to the already available 8350k processor)
> Obviously, to decide on the purchase, I must first have this information


Replied to your PM.


----------



## chibi

Looks like 8600K ETA pushed forward to 10/31. Hopefully the opposite for 8700K


----------



## radar54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> I would go for the Strix or Aorus personally.
> Possibly, but you have to watch out if going higher than 3200 / 3466 with these platforms, the motherboards crank up some of the secondary voltages to do higher than 3466mhz ram and that leads to higher cpu temps and possible degradation of the memory controller in the chip over time. I'd highly recommend getting a 3200C14 kit.. they can also do 3466C15 almost guaranteed.


How much does CAS impact performance? ie, how much faster is CAS14 than CAS16 on 3200GHz RAM?


----------



## Telstar

Quite much.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radar54*
> 
> How much does CAS impact performance? ie, how much faster is CAS14 than CAS16 on 3200GHz RAM?


depends the task. AI it makes a huge difference browser it can matter to an extent. Every type of program is different. Anantech, techpowerup, and others have some benchmarks posted


----------



## radar54

hopelesslyfaith, thanks for your informative reply . with your information, I found a very useful link to a white paper on Speed vs Latency. Can I post the link, in this forum (it's from a memory manufacturer)?


----------



## t cell

Greetings.

Do you all at Silicon Lottery intend to announce pricing before the estimated availability dates?

I'm interested in a delidded 8700k; I don't require one of the highest binned models, I just want it to do 4.7/4.8 on all 6 cores at less than 1.35v.

This will be my first purchase from y'all, so I apologize if I've missed this information on your website/forum.

Thank you


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t cell*
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> Do you all at Silicon Lottery intend to announce pricing before the estimated availability dates?
> 
> I'm interested in a delidded 8700k; I don't require one of the highest binned models, I just want it to do 4.7/4.8 on all 6 cores at less than 1.35v.
> 
> This will be my first purchase from y'all, so I apologize if I've missed this information on your website/forum.
> 
> Thank you


We determine pricing hours before launch, based on all the data we collected up until that point.


----------



## mistaneat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We determine pricing hours before launch, based on all the data we collected up until that point.


Do you have a rough idea of how many 8700ks will have been tested and be available on launch?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistaneat*
> 
> Do you have a rough idea of how many 8700ks will have been tested and be available on launch?


I have hundreds on order, just waiting for someone to ship.


----------



## Merliria

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> I have hundreds on order, just waiting for someone to ship.


I cannot wait to get my hand on the i7 8700k. you guys gotta hurry


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Merliria*
> 
> I cannot wait to get my hand on the i7 8700k. you guys gotta hurry


Better start doing dry runs with one of their other cpu's to get an idea of the checkout process. I can only assume these will sell out quickly, if not instantly!









@Silicon Lottery - are you going to implement any qty restrictions per order?


----------



## Merliria

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Better start doing dry runs with one of their other cpu's to get an idea of the checkout process. I can only assume these will sell out quickly, if not instantly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Silicon Lottery - are you going to implement any qty restrictions per order?


I have read their Billing policy, so basically, there no billing restriction if you check out using Paypal or bitcoin, and that what i ll do


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Better start doing dry runs with one of their other cpu's to get an idea of the checkout process. I can only assume these will sell out quickly, if not instantly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Silicon Lottery - are you going to implement any qty restrictions per order?


Paypal express checkout is typically the quickest way to get your order placed, or make an account on the site and get your address information already saved in there.

We typically limit 1 per customer near launch times, at least on the higher bins.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radar54*
> 
> hopelesslyfaith, thanks for your informative reply . with your information, I found a very useful link to a white paper on Speed vs Latency. Can I post the link, in this forum (it's from a memory manufacturer)?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/7un7fpwg5y30wuj/DDR%20RAM%20True%20Latency%20Calculator.xlsx?dl=0

this is an excel file i made so you can do the math to tell 1 vs 4 vs 8 word latencies. This gives you an idea of how fast memory is per size of request. Whats the difference between 1 and 8 word requests and what is a typical size of a request by a program??? No clue but this helps you to quickly compare RAM speeds.

Sub timings pay an important role too. Those you cant tell via my excel sheet but they affect results. Look at techpowerups review of G.Skill 3200 14-14-14-34 RAM Its what i have and a great RAM but in some tests "slower" RAM beat it and thats probably do to sub timings but thats getting incredibility detailed and kinda moot in regards to real world/daily tasks results

decided not to be lazy and find link
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/GSkill/F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW/6.html
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t cell*
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> Do you all at Silicon Lottery intend to announce pricing before the estimated availability dates?
> 
> I'm interested in a delidded 8700k; I don't require one of the highest binned models, I just want it to do 4.7/4.8 on all 6 cores at less than 1.35v.
> 
> This will be my first purchase from y'all, so I apologize if I've missed this information on your website/forum.
> 
> Thank you


honestly, when your looking for that low of freqs your better off just buying one and taking a chance. All of them if not nearly all should reach those speeds.

Personal opinion and what i would do.

SL in my opinion is good for 2 reasons. Saving time, and getting top tier silicon (quality up sizing lol)


----------



## Silicon Lottery

ETAs have been pushed back on me again.

I'm looking at some alternative sources that I had to resort to during the Skylake launch at this point. If I have to go that route, it unfortunately would mean higher prices.


----------



## t cell

Ouch,

bad news for us all.


----------



## t cell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> honestly, when your looking for that low of freqs your better off just buying one and taking a chance. All of them if not nearly all should reach those speeds.
> 
> Personal opinion and what i would do.
> 
> SL in my opinion is good for 2 reasons. Saving time, and getting top tier silicon (quality up sizing lol)


I agree about the achievable speeds, but at low volts/low temps? I had a bad experience with an AIO so I only stick with air cooled now.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t cell*
> 
> I agree about the achievable speeds, but at low volts/low temps? I had a bad experience with an AIO so I only stick with air cooled now.


IIRC werent some reviewers getting 5GHz max at 1.35v? They also only got 5-5.2GHz so those were medium quality silicon probably.

Googling.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7_8700K/17.html

5GHz 1.376v??? So 4.8GHz should be simple. I bet all can do 4.8GHz without any voltage boost. Intel has a habbit on desktops particularly with giving far more voltage than needed on stock. FYI stock is 4.7GHz so getting 4.8GHz is nothing. Most if not all should reach 5GHz with minimal issues. Thats only 300 more MHz.

Thats why i think your better off just buying one straight from the wild or go for a higher bin and enjoy a higher quality silicon.

If SL states the stats that'll tell you what to expect. If 50% or more hit 5GHz or higher and you don't care about 5GHz+ your better off just buying a random one. Buying binned is really only worth it if you go for top 25% dies in my book or better the top 10%.

I always go for top tier otherwise i personal would just buy in the wild.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> ETAs have been pushed back on me again.
> 
> I'm looking at some alternative sources that I had to resort to during the Skylake launch at this point. If I have to go that route, it unfortunately would mean higher prices.


you accept ebay checkout right? I got ebay gift cards i got to use.

Also i for one will just wait until you have stable prices...i can wait to save the money so i won't buy if you have to resort to other sources personally. I know others are willing to take the extra price hit to get it sooner than later.


----------



## mistaneat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> ETAs have been pushed back on me again.
> 
> I'm looking at some alternative sources that I had to resort to during the Skylake launch at this point. If I have to go that route, it unfortunately would mean higher prices.


Oh no.


----------



## chaosblade02

I got a question about the 'boxed' I7 8700k that comes with a 'delid'. Are these the leftovers that didn't make the cut? As in, these are below average OCing chips?

Pardon me for being skeptical here, but if it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is. $359.99 is MSRP for these chips, and you're delidding these for free? The price is $399.99 on Newegg for a chip that's got no delid. It's a little hard to believe you're buying these chips, delidding them out of the kindness of your heart, just to sell them for MSRP.

Because I'd take a non-K model that might hit a decent OC via BCLK over a pre-binned failure K model that won't hit 5ghz stable.


----------



## T i Joe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistaneat*
> 
> Oh no.


Believe it


----------



## CallsignVega

OH wow, didn't know Intel was into hardcore paper launch crap now. What garbage.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> OH wow, didn't know Intel was into hardcore paper launch crap now. What garbage.


skylake was the exact same but IIRC kaby lake was a smooth launch right? I didnt buy kaby so wasn't paying attention. The HEDTs were pretty smooth IIRC


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> skylake was the exact same but IIRC kaby lake was a smooth launch right? I didnt buy kaby so wasn't paying attention. The HEDTs were pretty smooth IIRC


The 14-18 core Skylake X are also MIA right now too. I may wind up buying Ryzen simply because Intel has no product to sell me right now.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> The 14-18 core Skylake X are also MIA right now too. I may wind up buying Ryzen simply because Intel has no product to sell me right now.


i was referring to the standard HEDT initial launch line.


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> i was referring to the standard HEDT initial launch line.


The 7900X and 7920X seemed to have good launch availability. I don't know if the HCC chips are in short supply or just not officially released yet. They went out to reviewers on 9/25.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> The 7900X and 7920X seemed to have good launch availability. I don't know if the HCC chips are in short supply or just not officially released yet. They went out to reviewers on 9/25.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Server market is partially to blame. They pay more and get first dibs.


----------



## Token1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosblade02*
> 
> I got a question about the 'boxed' I7 8700k that comes with a 'delid'. Are these the leftovers that didn't make the cut? As in, these are below average OCing chips?
> 
> Pardon me for being skeptical here, but if it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is. $359.99 is MSRP for these chips, and you're delidding these for free? The price is $399.99 on Newegg for a chip that's got no delid. It's a little hard to believe you're buying these chips, delidding them out of the kindness of your heart, just to sell them for MSRP.
> 
> Because I'd take a non-K model that might hit a decent OC via BCLK over a pre-binned failure K model that won't hit 5ghz stable.


iirc, that $359.99 price is just placeholder until they've decided on what they'll charge for each 'rarity' of overclock.


----------



## chaosblade02

If they're gonna start binning chips and selling them, then they're gonna have to do something with the below-average chips. It's honest as long as the below average chips are being sold as such.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosblade02*
> 
> If they're gonna start binning chips and selling them, then they're gonna have to do something with the below-average chips. It's honest as long as the below average chips are being sold as such.


he has a contract IIRC where he returns the ones he doesn't want for a cost. Hence why the real duds are nevrer sold on his site.


----------



## festivepopcorn

How does this work? I want to buy 8600k but does the processor come already delidded and have thermal paste on it?


----------



## redcloud0

If I plan to get a 5ghz 8700k, what level of cooling would be needed? I only have experience with air coolers so was considering the NH-D15, but it sounds like air cooling probably won't cut it. I've been reading up a bit on AIOs but I've never used one so I don't know how well they work. Would I need a 280mm AIO or would a 240mm cut it?

Noise is probably my biggest concern, since the more cooling needed the noisier it'll get. There's obviously going to be noise sacrifices just by virtue of running at 5ghz, but I'd still like it to be as quiet as possible while still staying within stable/safe temps


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redcloud0*
> 
> If I plan to get a 5ghz 8700k, what level of cooling would be needed? I only have experience with air coolers so was considering the NH-D15, but it sounds like air cooling probably won't cut it. I've been reading up a bit on AIOs but I've never used one so I don't know how well they work. Would I need a 280mm AIO or would a 240mm cut it?
> 
> Noise is probably my biggest concern, since the more cooling needed the noisier it'll get. There's obviously going to be noise sacrifices just by virtue of running at 5ghz, but I'd still like it to be as quiet as possible while still staying within stable/safe temps


NH-D15 is comparable to an average AIO. See anandtech and tecchpower up reviews. Delidding is more important than an AIO.

I own the NH-D15, H100i GTX, and the EK Predator 360. They are all fairly comparable in their ability to cool assuming you are under 200 W TDP. Once you break 200W TDP you need a EK Predator 360 or custom loop. Anything sub 200W TDP they are all the same within 5ish C IIRC

most AIOs pumps are too low of volume to support more than 200W TDP. I ran tests on my H100i GTX and the water is 100% saturated at 200W TDP. It isn't the radiator, which is why AIOs that are 240/280/360 all do the same if they use those cheap low GPM pumps. You need the EK Predator 360 AIO or custom loop to pump water fast enough for 200+ W TDP

https://hardforum.com/threads/review-corsair-100i-gtx-with-1650v3-220w-tdp-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/

this user tested different fans and found out that its the pump that is the limiting factor not the rad or fans.

AIO would just allow you a more quiet set up but nothing major in terms of temps difference. The H100i GTX vs EK Predator 360 are within a few C difference on a 1650v3 guzzling 170+W TDP. You only need a fancy water ccooler if your using like threadripper or those huge HEDTs.


----------



## bcmmbc122333

Hello, I have a couple questions. With a good 8700k that's delided would it be easy to hit 5ghz using a dark rock 3? Also I know it's not really decided yet but whats a rough estimate for the markup of the 8700k?


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> https://hardforum.com/threads/review-corsair-100i-gtx-with-1650v3-220w-tdp-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/
> 
> this user tested different fans and found out that its the pump that is the limiting factor not the rad or fans.
> 
> AIO would just allow you a more quiet set up but nothing major in terms of temps difference. The H100i GTX vs EK Predator 360 are within a few C difference on a 1650v3 guzzling 170+W TDP. You only need a fancy water ccooler if your using like threadripper or those huge HEDTs.


The predator are discontinued for a few months. EK will release new versions soon called MLC.
5TH gen Asetek pumps seems better albeit not quiet:
https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8301/thermaltake-floe-riing-360-tt-premium-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html


----------



## czin125

Looks nice. 8600K at 5.4ghz after a delid ( with the glue removed too ).


----------



## krayiss

Do you still have old 7700k results?
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-skylake-kaby-lake

4.8, 4.9, 5.0 voltages? -avx?

Thank you.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krayiss*
> 
> Do you still have old 7700k results?
> https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-skylake-kaby-lake
> 
> 4.8, 4.9, 5.0 voltages? -avx?
> 
> Thank you.


it would be nice to see the historical settings of products sold. I remember forgetting my 6700K and having to check the site but wasnt there anymore and having to hunt down the email order for details.


----------



## firekil

Hey I'm planning to get a ~5ghz 8700k. Will I be able to push it that far with an Asus Z370 Prime A, or do I really need one of the MBs from siliconlottery's QVL?


----------



## lukeg310

I was thinking of getting the same Asus motherboard as well.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *firekil*
> 
> Hey I'm planning to get a ~5ghz 8700k. Will I be able to push it that far with an Asus Z370 Prime A, or do I really need one of the MBs from siliconlottery's QVL?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> I was thinking of getting the same Asus motherboard as well.


YMMV. There have been some VDroop issues with these lower end boards and BIOS updates have been issued, but I haven't had a chance to test them again since. I'd imagine they'd work okay @ 5GHz.


----------



## eyeball

Will delidding provide temperature benefits when NOT overcloking? I'm planning a build in an NCASE M1 using the 8700k with an air cooler (nh-u9s) and worried about temps.

I have all the parts except waiting on a processor now. damn you intel and your low stocks.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyeball*
> 
> Will delidding provide temperature benefits when NOT overcloking? I'm planning a build in an NCASE M1 using the 8700k with an air cooler (nh-u9s) and worried about temps.
> 
> I have all the parts except waiting on a processor now. damn you intel and your low stocks.


it should lower all temps. idle and load.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyeball*
> 
> Will delidding provide temperature benefits when NOT overcloking? I'm planning a build in an NCASE M1 using the 8700k with an air cooler (nh-u9s) and worried about temps.
> 
> I have all the parts except waiting on a processor now. damn you intel and your low stocks.


It certainly should. Delid affects the overall thermal performance, oc'd or not.

I do have a question for Silicon Lottery. If I send my chip in, will you provide a screenshot or something that shows the temps before and after or do you just preform the delid and send it back? I don't want my chip "binned".


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> If I send my chip in, will you provide a screenshot or something that shows the temps before and after or do you just preform the delid and send it back? I don't want my chip "binned".


Surely you would test the chip before sending it to make sure it works properly, and you will have load temps from before you sent it to compare to when you get it back?


----------



## eyeball

Thanks ... I'm assuming the lower the starting temp, the less increment due to the delid. So wondering if not overclocking if it would gain enough to be worth it.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyeball*
> 
> Thanks ... I'm assuming the lower the starting temp, the less increment due to the delid. So wondering if not overclocking if it would gain enough to be worth it.


i dont understand...If you are not overclocking The only thing that delidding will help with is:

Keeping temps lower, which results in:

less thermal throttling, which only happens if your over 100C(?)
requiring lower fan RPMs for X temp. (quieter system)
Allowing/better undervolting (which you have to manually do)

Am I missing anything?

FYI all of those are reasons why people do delid but if your just running stock and are not having thermal issues and are not undervolting or trying to make a silent system...it is my honest opinion your wasting your time and money.


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> i dont understand...If you are not overclocking The only thing that delidding will help with is:
> 
> Keeping temps lower, which results in:
> 
> less thermal throttling, which only happens if your over 100C(?)
> requiring lower fan RPMs for X temp. (quieter system)
> Allowing/better undervolting (which you have to manually do)
> 
> Am I missing anything?
> 
> FYI all of those are reasons why people do delid but if your just running stock and are not having thermal issues and are not undervolting or trying to make a silent system...it is my honest opinion your wasting your time and money.


Lower temps means lower power consumption and less beefy cooler requirements, which is needed when running low profile coolers in an ITX case. I had a i7 4790K at stock in an ncase M1, the cryorig M9I cooler I got for it kept it cool nicely and I was very impressed with it for something that costs half what the noctua coolers do.


----------



## eyeball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> i dont understand...If you are not overclocking The only thing that delidding will help with is:
> 
> Keeping temps lower, which results in:
> 
> less thermal throttling, which only happens if your over 100C(?)
> requiring lower fan RPMs for X temp. (quieter system)
> Allowing/better undervolting (which you have to manually do)
> 
> Am I missing anything?
> 
> FYI all of those are reasons why people do delid but if your just running stock and are not having thermal issues and are not undervolting or trying to make a silent system...it is my honest opinion your wasting your time and money.


I'm building in an NCASE M1 and using an air cooler, so worried about temps given some of the reports on how how the 8700k is. That and keeping the system quieter are my motivation for looking into this.

Trying to decide as the processor becomes in stock whether to just order one and try it stock or to order a delidded one from SL right from the start.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyeball*
> 
> I'm building in an NCASE M1 and using an air cooler, so worried about temps given some of the reports on how how the 8700k is. That and keeping the system quieter are my motivation for looking into this.
> 
> Trying to decide as the processor becomes in stock whether to just order one and try it stock or to order a delidded one from SL right from the start.


what you said sounds like you need/want delidded


----------



## TheBraok

What's the estimated date of availability for 5ghz 8700k? ETA seems to have been removed from the website.
Also, which mini ITX board would be best for hitting 5ghz (delidded)? There aren't many options and I'm pretty clueless, lol.


----------



## HamburgerPls

strix z370i will probable be best.


----------



## HamburgerPls

I too would like to know the ETA, I hope it's still the 31st


----------



## fx3861

guess i be waiting till the stocks stabilize ???


----------



## thebski

The removal of the ETA on the website most likely means just that, there isn't one yet. This launch is a complete joke on Intels part.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> The removal of the ETA on the website most likely means just that, there isn't one yet. This launch is a complete joke on Intels part.


this was how skylake was as well.


----------



## unityole

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> ETAs have been pushed back on me again.
> 
> I'm looking at some alternative sources that I had to resort to during the Skylake launch at this point. If I have to go that route, it unfortunately would mean higher prices.


i checked SL website and it was originally eta oct 31st for 8700k now the date just removed all together. if you're using this alternative source, how long can we expect to see binned 8700k?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> this was how skylake was as well.


Then it was a joke as well.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

I've taken the ETA down, because the ETAs I've been given seem to have no accuracy. I'll put ETAs back up once I have actual product being shipped.


----------



## fg2chase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> I've taken the ETA down, because the ETAs I've been given seem to have no accuracy. I'll put ETAs back up once I have actual product being shipped.


PM'd


----------



## JD Webb

It's worth the wait. I'm not a gambling man, I'd rather wait and know exactly what I'm getting.


----------



## HamburgerPls

Preach my dude, preach.


----------



## cerealkeller

If I can get one at 5.2 GHz or higher I would definitely buy one. I saw one at 5.4 GHz on water delidded. Now that would be sexy.


----------



## VeritronX

what do people think the asking price for the two lowest bins of the i5 will likely be? I'm thinking 4.7ghz or 4.8ghz range i5 should be enough to power my 1080ti nicely in a secondary itx gaming pc, and I'll definitely need a delidded chip to keep thermals under control.


----------



## jellybeans69

tbh pretty sure any 8600 and 8700k will do 4.8/4.9. 8700k might be bit hotter but 8600k is fine for me personally non-delided. 70c max @ 1.35v / 4.9 ghz / offset 0 for daily use. IBT/Linpack - 90c max on Noctua DH15s


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> 70c max @ 1.35v / 4.9 ghz / offset 0 for daily use. IBT/Linpack - 90c max on Noctua DH15s


I'd be using a 92mm tower cooler which can only handle up to 120w, preferably less.. and trying to keep max temps in the 80's. So I'm probably going to need an i5 at under 1.3v with a delid.


----------



## IMI4tth3w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> I'd be using a 92mm tower cooler which can only handle up to 120w, preferably less.. and trying to keep max temps in the 80's. So I'm probably going to need an i5 at under 1.3v with a delid.


in that case you might want a higher bin so you can downclock it and run it at even lower voltages.


----------



## isamu

New ETA up. Now at Nov 11th. Lets see if this one sticks


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> New ETA up. Now at Nov 11th. Lets see if this one sticks


This one should stick.


----------



## unityole

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> This one should stick.


what is the heaviest test you guys do to stress the cpu? (with avx)

also since CB15 doesnt use avx, im assuming it isnt heavy load at all.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unityole*
> 
> what is the heaviest test you guys do to stress the cpu? (with avx)
> 
> also since CB15 doesnt use avx, im assuming it isnt heavy load at all.


Linpack.


----------



## Timuka3T

Kind of new here to the Overclocking world and wanted to get the run down on how these chips will be sold and marked? For the ETA, Do we have an certain time they will be listed yet?

Are these going to be sold per each tested like Der8auer has done in the UK? are the settings provided?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> Kind of new here to the Overclocking world and wanted to get the run down on how these chips will be sold and marked? For the ETA, Do we have an certain time they will be listed yet?
> 
> Are these going to be sold per each tested like Der8auer has done in the UK? are the settings provided?


Look at the rest of our site for an example of how we do things. No set time yet.


----------



## UtopiA

Stock issues are definitely resolving. Newegg has the 8700K right now, been up for about 20 minutes. Everyday they stay up longer and longer.


----------



## unityole

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Linpack.


how much power does it use underload, for 8700k roughly.

possible to get frequency and power chart?


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unityole*
> 
> how much power does it use underload, for 8700k roughly.
> 
> possible to get frequency and power chart?


check reviews and 8700K owner threads. Thats the best place to get this kind of info from actual users with the rigs running who got the time to give you specifics.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Look at the rest of our site for an example of how we do things. No set time yet.


you might want to post this at top of thread and direct some people here. These threads are great tools for people needing details on specifics

http://www.overclock.net/t/1639998/i7-8700k-overclock-results-and-settings


----------



## 3psilon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> This one should stick.


Hey there, is there any way to be sure to get my sample on November 11th other than staying connected to the website all day long waiting for the processor to finally come out of the woods ? (preorder or i dont know ^^")
I'm actually waiting for it for 2 months now and I keep staring at my other components every day, they re waiting to get assembled for so long now :/

Thank you


----------



## HamburgerPls

Sign up for email updates, if the date changes at all at this point, it will be moving forward. When the CPU goes on sale it doesn't just go up at any random time, it will say on the website on launch day exactly what time the CPU is launching, I'm just going to set a timer for 5 minutes before launch time and constantly refresh the page.


----------



## lukeg310

Signed up for the updates. The launch date is very close to my birthday so I hope to get myself an 8700k as a gift to myself.


----------



## thebski

I hope there is decent supply. I have a feeling these won't last long.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I hope there is decent supply. I have a feeling these won't last long.


We should have a decent supply, but they still aren't going to last long given the shortages everywhere.


----------



## Sevin

Does the November 11th date include lead time from your actual arrival date so you are able to bin the batch you get in?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevin*
> 
> Does the November 11th date include lead time from your actual arrival date so you are able to bin the batch you get in?


Yes


----------



## IMI4tth3w

were getting closer!! although i'll probably end up waiting another round of binning or two in fear for my life from my wife if i buy one next month







But it'll be fine. She'll get my shiney 5775c and i'll have a 4790k to sell to make up some $


----------



## radar54

with the *Swiftech H220 x2* going end of life, can anyone recommend a 240 mm or 280 mm CLC for an i7-8700K (w/ Max X Hero)? I've recently started looking at the *Cryorig A40* and *Alphacool Eisbaer 240* as alternatives to the H220 x2. thanks.

Oh, I'm also probably going to replace whichever fans come with the unit with EK-Furious Vardar EVO 140 or 120. Any comments on these fans?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radar54*
> 
> with the *Swiftech H220 x2* going end of life, can anyone recommend a 240 mm or 280 mm CLC for an i7-8700K (w/ Max X Hero)? I've recently started looking at the *Cryorig A40* and *Alphacool Eisbaer 240* as alternatives to the H220 x2. thanks.
> 
> Oh, I'm also probably going to replace whichever fans come with the unit with EK-Furious Vardar EVO 140 or 120. Any comments on these fans?


EK MLC (AKA new predator 360) should be on sale mid november. Might be worth to wait


----------



## Telstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> EK MLC (AKA new predator 360) should be on sale mid november. Might be worth to wait


I think just before Christmas but worth the wait, or u can get their cheapest 360 kit for 220$/ €.


----------



## lukeg310

Newegg is selling 8700ks right now


----------



## TheBraok




----------



## TheBraok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> Newegg is selling 8700ks right now



where


----------



## lukeg310

newegg.com but I think its sold out. These random sales popup. I use nowinstock.net to send me text alerts of when stuff goes on sale.

Patiently waiting for SL release their 8700k cpu's


----------



## Sevin

newegg.com has been getting stock on and off every day it seems but if I am going to be paying more then MSRP like $419.99 which is what its at now I would rather buy it from SL and get a guaranteed bin then roll the dice.


----------



## radar54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> EK MLC (AKA new predator 360) should be on sale mid november. Might be worth to wait


Thanks for the intel, bl4ckdot


----------



## Pudfark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMI4tth3w*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> were getting closer!! although i'll probably end up waiting another round of binning or two in fear for my life from my wife if i buy one next month
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it'll be fine. She'll get my shiney 5775c and i'll have a 4790k to sell to make up some $


Howdy, As a fellow Texan, I do admire your current rig, arguably a little better than mine. Can't resist saying this...but, you might wanna remove the girl friends rig...unless of course, she made an honest man outta you.
















:


----------



## HamburgerPls

What is your projected price for the highest binned 8700k, which I assume will be 5.4-5.4 ghz?


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HamburgerPls*
> 
> What is your projected price for the highest binned 8700k, which I assume will be 5.4-5.4 ghz?


Nobody knows untill after they have been tested what speeds there will be, and the price will depend on how rare a clock is compared to the other chips tested.. so no way to know untill the last minute (which seems to be the 11th at this point).

They kinda need the chips to arrive first


----------



## czin125

The only way to get those bins is if they test after delidding ( I think they bin before delidding 1151 but they delid before binning 7980XE? )

And they appear to be using a 240mm AIO for the binning process on a midrange board, so 5.2 before delidding might be the limit on an AIO? 5.4 after delidding is possible with a 480mm +D5 though.


----------



## lukeg310

What motherboards are you guys using? I wanted to get ASUS Strix Z370-E but hearing their problems with LLC has me looking into getting MSI M5.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> What motherboards are you guys using? I wanted to get ASUS Strix Z370-E but hearing their problems with LLC has me looking into getting MSI M5.


If you want something good at a reasonable price buy the Asrock Z370 Taichi, if you want something better at a higher price look at the ROG Maximus range


----------



## radar54

Asus Maximus X Hero


----------



## UtopiA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radar54*
> 
> Asus Maximus X Hero


The Aorous Gaming 7 has a better VRM setup and is a bit cheaper, still though I always prefer Heros.
I believe SL is using the X Hero for their binning, so that's a good sign. I just wonder if the Gaming 7 might have better OCability.


----------



## jabroni80

yep using maximus hero too


----------



## Yetyhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> What motherboards are you guys using? I wanted to get ASUS Strix Z370-E but hearing their problems with LLC has me looking into getting MSI M5.


They fixed that with new BIOS releases.


----------



## radar54

one of the reasons I selected the Max X Hero is Asus's 5-Way Optimization for overclocking (I hope it's not heresy to mention this method of overclocking







)


----------



## digix

If you buy z370 gigabyte gaming 5 or ganing 7 (since Intel Coffee Lake Qualified Vendor list only Asus and Asrock), however, is recognized the year of warranty on the 8700k processor?


----------



## lukeg310

Thank you for the input!!


----------



## cx-ray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radar54*
> 
> one of the reasons I selected the Max X Hero is Asus's 5-Way Optimization for overclocking (I hope it's not heresy to mention this method of overclocking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Be very careful what voltages the motherboard automatically applies. Always double check in Windows with HWInfo or something similar. I have a Maximus IX Apex (latest BIOS) that puts 1.38V VCCIO on a 7700K when left on auto and only loading a 3200 XMP profile. This will probably damage the IMC over time.


----------



## radar54

cx-ray, thanks for the warning...


----------



## VeritronX

yeah, change voltage modes from auto to offset with asus or normal with gigabyte to stop them getting creative with voltages in the background.


----------



## Neville0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBraok*
> 
> What's the estimated date of availability for 5ghz 8700k? ETA seems to have been removed from the website.
> Also, which mini ITX board would be best for hitting 5ghz (delidded)? There aren't many options and I'm pretty clueless, lol.


Asrock Fatility ITX/ac from the vrm discussion


----------



## LukeT32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> The Aorous Gaming 7 has a better VRM setup and is a bit cheaper, still though I always prefer Heros.
> I believe SL is using the X Hero for their binning, so that's a good sign. I just wonder if the Gaming 7 might have better OCability.


Isn't that the board the Gamers Nexus hated?


----------



## UtopiA

Can someone who has more experience with SL bins answer a question.

I was looking at the 7700K bins (which are back on the site) and the vcores seem really high. For example the 5 GHz bin says 1.425V. Is that just an over-estimation/max vcore? Because I feel like I could buy a random 7700K off the shelf and hit 5 GHz WAY below 1.425V. Even having a delid on that chip defeats the purpose since any regular 7700K on ~1.35V or less will reach the same temps as a delidded 1.425V chip. Even the 5.2 bin says 1.45V and that's $480. If SL only keeps and sells the good chips, then I can't even imagine what the BAD chips looked like.

I believe the old stats said something like 60% of all 7700K's are capable of 5 GHz. Surely 1.425V wasn't necessary for all of them.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone who has more experience with SL bins answer a question.
> 
> I was looking at the 7700K bins (which are back on the site) and the vcores seem really high. For example the 5 GHz bin says 1.425V. Is that just an over-estimation/max vcore? Because I feel like I could buy a random 7700K off the shelf and hit 5 GHz WAY below 1.425V. Even having a delid on that chip defeats the purpose since any regular 7700K on ~1.35V or less will reach the same temps as a delidded 1.425V chip. Even the 5.2 bin says 1.45V and that's $480. If SL only keeps and sells the good chips, then I can't even imagine what the BAD chips looked like.
> 
> I believe the old stats said something like 60% of all 7700K's are capable of 5 GHz. Surely 1.425V wasn't necessary for all of them.


They bin at voltages. I don't know exactly how they do it, but i would believe they'd set it to like 1.45v, and try 5.0, then 5.1, no 5.1 isn't stable? So its a 5.0 Chip at 1.45v. They don't test to see if its stable at lower voltages. They only bin for the maximum speed.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone who has more experience with SL bins answer a question.
> 
> I was looking at the 7700K bins (which are back on the site) and the vcores seem really high. For example the 5 GHz bin says 1.425V. Is that just an over-estimation/max vcore? Because I feel like I could buy a random 7700K off the shelf and hit 5 GHz WAY below 1.425V. Even having a delid on that chip defeats the purpose since any regular 7700K on ~1.35V or less will reach the same temps as a delidded 1.425V chip. Even the 5.2 bin says 1.45V and that's $480. If SL only keeps and sells the good chips, then I can't even imagine what the BAD chips looked like.
> 
> I believe the old stats said something like 60% of all 7700K's are capable of 5 GHz. Surely 1.425V wasn't necessary for all of them.


@Shiftstealth is correct, we test at the voltage listed and that's it. So voltages listed are a worse case scenario for that particular bin, but you should expect to need up to that much. This is just a limited run of 7700Ks we're doing again thanks to all the Coffee Lake delays, previously we used 1.375-1.387V for the 5GHz bin.

Take into account our previous statistics were just an hour of Realbench, now we're doing much more rigorous testing aiming for complete stability. An average 7700K would not be able to pass our 5GHz testing at 1.35V.


----------



## mavericksv

Curious - Do you have an estimate on what the lowest priced delid will be priced at?

I have a pre-order that will likely be shipping from Bandhphoto on 11/10, but if I can get a delidded from you, I will cancel that pre-order.

I am just looking for a delidded processor and I don't care what the max speeds are, I just want the better cooling.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

For anyone that is on the fence but interested in the overall performance of the SL delidded chips... I'll say that while waiting for the 8700K processors, I recently purchased a SL 8350k for my wife's work computer, and it is nothing short of fantastic!

I grabbed a SL 5.0Ghz 8350K delidded cpu, and although I'm sure many of you will want more detailed info (numbers & benches) and I'm just too busy working to get deep into posting all the specs, my official testimony is that the cooling and the performance for the past 2 weeks has been just completely excellent.

She makes good money and her work is mission critical, so I over-killed it a bit with a Noctua D-15 and an Asrock Pro i7 + Sammy 960 Evo NVMe...

Again, just completely outstanding!

Really looking forward to the SL 8700K's!

My two cents


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mavericksv*
> 
> Curious - Do you have an estimate on what the lowest priced delid will be priced at?
> 
> I have a pre-order that will likely be shipping from Bandhphoto on 11/10, but if I can get a delidded from you, I will cancel that pre-order.
> 
> I am just looking for a delidded processor and I don't care what the max speeds are, I just want the better cooling.


I can't really go into detailed pricing at this time, but you can expect the lower $400s. A lot of math has to be done on our end.


----------



## mavericksv

Thanks for the reply so quickly!

I guess I'll stick w/ the pre-order for now (I also realized you are in TX so you charge tax for us in Austin, which makes it a much worse deal).

Keep doing the great work!


----------



## xSneak

Will the 8700ks really be available on the 11th, or will they sell out in a matter of minutes while I'm sleeping?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSneak*
> 
> Will the 8700ks really be available on the 11th, or will they sell out in a matter of minutes while I'm sleeping?


We'll have over 100 ready to go, with more on the way. Demand is extremely high on Coffee Lake, so if you're wanting to get one you'll probably want to be ready when we launch. We'll post the time they'll be going up in this thread Friday Evening or Saturday morning.


----------



## UtopiA

Will pricing and bin info be available prior to launch?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Will pricing and bin info be available prior to launch?


It will be available at launch.


----------



## PiMaster9001

What's the highest clock you've seen thus far?


----------



## walmartshopper

Interested in the 8600K, what's the highest bin you would recommend for air cooling? I have a cooler master 212 evo with dual fans and was hoping for at least 4.8ghz.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walmartshopper*
> 
> Interested in the 8600K, what's the highest bin you would recommend for air cooling? I have a cooler master 212 evo with dual fans and was hoping for at least 4.8ghz.


I have the same cooler for i5 8600k what does SL recommend.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walmartshopper*
> 
> Interested in the 8600K, what's the highest bin you would recommend for air cooling? I have a cooler master 212 evo with dual fans and was hoping for at least 4.8ghz.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I have the same cooler for i5 8600k what does SL recommend.


I would recommend getting the highest bin within your budget. You'll have to run a little bit lower on the voltage/frequency than what we do, but you'll always do better with higher quality silicon.


----------



## Net1Raven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> @Shiftstealth is correct, we test at the voltage listed and that's it. So voltages listed are a worse case scenario for that particular bin, but you should expect to need up to that much. This is just a limited run of 7700Ks we're doing again thanks to all the Coffee Lake delays, previously we used 1.375-1.387V for the 5GHz bin.
> 
> Take into account our previous statistics were just an hour of Realbench, *now we're doing much more rigorous testing aiming for complete stability*. An average 7700K would not be able to pass our 5GHz testing at 1.35V.


Care to share what test you perform for complete stability? thanks.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElBerryKM13*
> 
> Care to share what test you perform for complete stability? thanks.


A mix of everything (non-avx prime, linpack) along with some custom software. Exact details are a bit of a trade secret.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone who has more experience with SL bins answer a question.
> 
> I was looking at the 7700K bins (which are back on the site) and the vcores seem really high. For example the 5 GHz bin says 1.425V. Is that just an over-estimation/max vcore? Because I feel like I could buy a random 7700K off the shelf and hit 5 GHz WAY below 1.425V. Even having a delid on that chip defeats the purpose since any regular 7700K on ~1.35V or less will reach the same temps as a delidded 1.425V chip. Even the 5.2 bin says 1.45V and that's $480. If SL only keeps and sells the good chips, then I can't even imagine what the BAD chips looked like.
> 
> I believe the old stats said something like 60% of all 7700K's are capable of 5 GHz. Surely 1.425V wasn't necessary for all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> @Shiftstealth is correct, we test at the voltage listed and that's it. So voltages listed are a worse case scenario for that particular bin, but you should expect to need up to that much. This is just a limited run of 7700Ks we're doing again thanks to all the Coffee Lake delays, previously we used 1.375-1.387V for the 5GHz bin.
> 
> Take into account our previous statistics were just an hour of Realbench, now we're doing much more rigorous testing aiming for complete stability. An average 7700K would not be able to pass our 5GHz testing at 1.35V.
Click to expand...

Why did you change your testing methodology?


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Why did you change your testing methodology?


The people wanted processors that were tested harder

HE DID IT FOR THE PEOPLE


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Why did you change your testing methodology?
> 
> 
> 
> The people wanted processors that were tested harder
> 
> HE DID IT FOR THE PEOPLE
Click to expand...

Were people complaining that there PC was crashing?


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Were people complaining that there PC was crashing?


Plenty of people complained that 1 hour of stability testing on an easier test was not enough.


----------



## newls1

waiting for stock of the 8700k!! looks like ill be buying yet another cpu from you again.. hopefully ill catch it in stock on the 11th


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Why did you change your testing methodology?


First time I've seen someone complain about a better quality product...

More testing results in a better CPU than 1 hour realbench


----------



## mistaneat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> First time I've seen someone complain about a better quality product...
> 
> More testing results in a better CPU than 1 hour realbench


Yeah, more testing is definitely better.


----------



## Seyumi

Any preview for cooling required on your higher binned 8700k's? The Skylake X series pretty much pushed into the 360mm minimum required category. Curious if I could get away with a THICK 120mm radiator or a 240mm~360mm would be bare minimum.


----------



## Scotty99

Curious about that as well, i am still on the fence between itx and atx.


----------



## tashcz

Could you please tell me what are the only delidded 8700K's? Are they the ones that didn't perform well, or just a stock that isn't binned?


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> Any preview for cooling required on your higher binned 8700k's? The Skylake X series pretty much pushed into the 360mm minimum required category. Curious if I could get away with a THICK 120mm radiator or a 240mm~360mm would be bare minimum.


240mm rads can easily cool 220w plus TDP the problem is weak pumps in AIOs and heat density on the die...meaning water chiller/phase is needed.

https://hardforum.com/threads/review-corsair-100i-gtx-with-1650v3-220w-tdp-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/

note the heat in and heat out on radiator.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Why did you change your testing methodology?
> 
> 
> 
> First time I've seen someone complain about a better quality product...
> 
> More testing results in a better CPU than 1 hour realbench
Click to expand...

I just read in the past that 1 hour of Realbench is good enough for stability testings.


----------



## isp1985

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Could you please tell me what are the only delidded 8700K's? Are they the ones that didn't perform well, or just a stock that isn't binned?


I would imagine that every cpu is binned accordingly


----------



## c0nsistent

You cannot expect a company to test every single CPU for 24 hours and still have any sort of R.O.I.


----------



## jabroni80

so newegg have had stock for over 1.5 hours, i hope you got some for SL binning


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jabroni80*
> 
> so newegg have had stock for over 1.5 hours, i hope you got some for SL binning


SL purchase direct from Intel.


----------



## jabroni80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> SL purchase direct from Intel.


wow nice!


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> SL purchase direct from Intel.


pretty sure he does not buy from intel and buys from wholesellers and has contracts with them for sending back ones that dont test well.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> SL purchase direct from Intel.
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure he does not buy from intel and buys from wholesellers and has contracts with them for sending back ones that dont test well.
Click to expand...

How does a company send back used processors that have been delidded and get the money back that makes no sense.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> How does a company send back used processors that have been delidded and get the money back that makes no sense.


What makes you think SL delids all the mainstream CPU's before binning them?


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> How does a company send back used processors that have been delidded and get the money back that makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think SL delids all the mainstream CPU's before binning them?
Click to expand...

Because they would throttle and crash do to heat when they don't delid while stress testing for a hour+.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Because they would throttle and crash do to heat when they don't delid while stress testing for a hour+.


According to another thread SL did delid the Skylake X CPU's before binning but never have on mainstream CPU's until maybe this generation, only SL would know this for sure so you are only speculating at best. As for where they source their CPU's from only SL would know and I can guarantee SL are not about to reveal where from to any of us, neither are they likely to reveal what happens to the bad CPU's, you are completely speculating








If SL did delid before binning then how can they offer me a 3x customer before delid and after delid temps if you ask them?


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Because they would throttle and crash do to heat when they don't delid while stress testing for a hour+.
> 
> 
> 
> According to another thread SL did delid the Skylake X CPU's before binning but never have on mainstream CPU's until maybe this generation, only SL would know this for sure so you are only speculating at best. As for where they source their CPU's from only SL would know and I can guarantee SL are not about to reveal where from to any of us, neither are they likely to reveal what happens to the bad CPU's, you are completely speculating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If SL did delid before binning then how can they offer me a 3x customer before delid and after delid temps if you ask them?
Click to expand...

I don't see where they offer non delidded i7 7700K's


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I don't see where they offer non delidded i7 7700K's


HW and SKL were never automatically delidded and i recall hearing him saying somewhere he contracts with a company and pays a small fee for unused chips. No clue where i heard that but i read it somewhere around here.

Could have changed since HW/SKL.

Also doesnt mean he doesnt test a chip finds a good one. Delidds and retests it one last time.

Its pretty easy to weed out the really bad chips under a simple test.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I don't see where they offer non delidded i7 7700K's


SL changed the way they bin 7700K's from when I bought mine back in January, they also use a different stability testing method compared to what they did when I bought mine (mine had AVX offset of 0). They might delid coffee lake prior to binning then again they may not, only they know at this stage so to say otherwise is speculating. There are things about SL that we the end user will never know for business reasons. Back when I bought all my CPU's from them delid was optional and they were binned prior to delid.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I don't see where they offer non delidded i7 7700K's
> 
> 
> 
> HW and SKL were never automatically delidded and i recall hearing him saying somewhere he contracts with a company and pays a small fee for unused chips. No clue where i heard that but i read it somewhere around here.
> 
> Could have changed since HW/SKL.
> 
> Also doesnt mean he doesnt test a chip finds a good one. Delidds and retests it one last time.
> 
> Its pretty easy to weed out the really bad chips under a simple test.
Click to expand...

That is when they use to do shoddy work, now they have better procedures and quality for everyone.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> That is when they use to do shoddy work, now they have better procedures and quality for everyone.


Wow...shoddy thats a big call, do you know from experience? I have purchased 3 CPU's from Silicon lottery only had an issue with one CPU which was my 7700K in that it didn't clock as well as binned, I returned it and they supplied me with an even better CPU that has had no stability issues [email protected] instead of 1.44V since day one and stilling running as advertised. The first 7700K they supplied did clock as advertised after I returned it, turned out the dodgy Beta UEFI for my board was the problem. The 4790K I purchased from them was binned at [email protected] but did a stable [email protected] after delid on my board. Hardly shoddy







FYI when Silicon lottery first started their business they consulted all OCN members as to which stress test the community wanted him to use, how is that shoddy by consulting your potential customers?


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> That is when they use to do shoddy work, now they have better procedures and quality for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...shoddy thats a big call, do you know from experience? I have purchased 3 CPU's from Silicon lottery only had an issue with one CPU which was my 7700K in that it didn't clock as well as binned, I returned it and they supplied me with an even better CPU that has had no stability issues [email protected] instead of 1.44V since day one and stilling running as advertised. The first 7700K they supplied did clock as advertised after I returned it, turned out the dodgy Beta UEFI for my board was the problem. The 4790K I purchased from them was binned at [email protected] but did a stable [email protected] after delid on my board. Hardly shoddy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI when Silicon lottery first started their business they consulted all OCN members as to which stress test the community wanted him to use, how is that shoddy by consulting your potential customers?
Click to expand...

I just dislike see folks like you have to return CPUs when they should clock to speed the first time and I see it a lot. That is just shoddy work.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I just dislike see folks like you have to return CPUs when they should clock to speed the first time and I see it a lot. That is just shoddy work.


As stated the issue I had was not Silicon lottery's fault, it was an issue with my Beta UEFI on my Z170 board, hardly surprising given all mother board manufacturers were putting their resources into the Ryzen launch at the time. I had no issues with Silicon lottery and they supplied me an even better CPU at no extra charge. From my own personal experience I cant fault Silicon lottery for their service. How many of those returned shoddy CPU's were end user faults as opposed to silicon lottery's fault? Not everyone on these forums is an experienced overclocker, silicon lottery has no way of knowing how good you are at overclocking nor do they have any control over what components you have in your system. They have a reason for the +/-100Mhz frequency, sometimes it results in a 100Mhz lower clock than you payed for but sometimes works in your favour as well as it did with my 4790K. After reading many threads and forum posts there are some dodgy and dishonest members here too doing some pretty dodgy stuff, point being dont believe everything you read.


----------



## royalkilla408

Might be buying from SL for the first time. Can't wait to finally finish my build.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I just dislike see folks like you have to return CPUs when they should clock to speed the first time and I see it a lot. That is just shoddy work.


I would use a classic word to describe what your doing but we are in a safe space forum so i can't even use common English term for your actions. But I am sure most people know what i am referring to.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> I would use a classic word to describe what your doing but we are in a safe space forum so i can't even use common English term for your actions. But I am sure most people know what i am referring to.


"Safe space" lol


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Past SL customer here and owner/operator of b2b web dev company... running 5 different "self-built" systems currently - there's nothing "shoddy" about running 13c lower on air!

SL listens/replys to customers, has excellent customer service, and assists you in ending up with a great chip that's pretty darn close to where you want to be for your own setup goals... NOTHING shoddy about that.


----------



## Sevin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Might be buying from SL for the first time. Can't wait to finally finish my build.


I am definitely planning on ordering from SL for the first time also. I have everything built and ready just waiting on an 8700k migrating from a 3930k.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

I have a new build laying here "waiting" also...going into a Corsair 900D with the Blueray/DVD (needed for business) case mod internally mounted inside the case plus a nice big NVMe raid...

If you wait and get the SL chip you'll be happy you did.. I wouldn't build mine without it... plus my last SL was delivered on a Tuesday after ordering it on a Thursday









Not a fanboy here, but with all the jockeying we have to do in the world to get "the right thing" these days, we have to shout out the things that actually make our lives easier and just plain work!


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaplesWebTech*
> 
> Past SL customer here and owner/operator of b2b web dev company... running 5 different "self-built" systems currently - there's nothing "shoddy" about running 13c lower on air!
> 
> SL listens/replys to customers, has excellent customer service, and assists you in ending up with a great chip that's pretty darn close to where you want to be for your own setup goals... NOTHING shoddy about that.


thats about my feelings too. Wanting to get top 8700K


----------



## VRoman

I always found it better to test at certain voltage and call it stable at a step higher voltage. For example test for an hour at 1.440v and for daily use set voltage to 1.450v. This would also compensate for differences in motherboards and eliminate the need of overnight testing.


----------



## VRoman

Is there going to be a 5.4GHz version of 8600k? 1.5v is fine with me. My skykake was on for about 300 24hr-days since purchace at 1.5v with no problems  Got to love Silicon Lottery for awesome service!


----------



## czin125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VRoman*
> 
> Is there going to be a 5.4GHz version of 8600k? 1.5v is fine with me. My skykake was on for about 300 24hr-days since purchace at 1.5v with no problems  Got to love Silicon Lottery for awesome service!


Unlikely. He's using 240mm AIO for Z370 chips and there are other people who have gotten an extra 250mhz
( since it's binned before delidding? ).

http://www.overclock.net/t/1619559/kaby-lake-binning/140#post_26106559

His cooling solution http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a4/500x1000px-LL-a43aa89e_2017-01-1911.18.51.jpeg

http://cdn.overclock.net/3/39/39be11af_snaphsot0011.png 5400mhz @ 1.360v

http://cdn.overclock.net/1/1c/1cc1a4ea_snaphsot0013.png 5455mhz @1.440v


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Set your alarms for 7:00 PM CST tomorrow, both the 8600K and 8700Ks will be going up at that time.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I just dislike see folks like you have to return CPUs when they should clock to speed the first time and I see it a lot. That is just shoddy work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As stated the issue I had was not Silicon lottery's fault, it was an issue with my Beta UEFI on my Z170 board, hardly surprising given all mother board manufacturers were putting their resources into the Ryzen launch at the time. I had no issues with Silicon lottery and they supplied me an even better CPU at no extra charge. From my own personal experience I cant fault Silicon lottery for their service. How many of those returned shoddy CPU's were end user faults as opposed to silicon lottery's fault? Not everyone on these forums is an experienced overclocker, silicon lottery has no way of knowing how good you are at overclocking nor do they have any control over what components you have in your system. They have a reason for the +/-100Mhz frequency, sometimes it results in a 100Mhz lower clock than you payed for but sometimes works in your favour as well as it did with my 4790K. After reading many threads and forum posts there are some dodgy and dishonest members here too doing some pretty dodgy stuff, point being dont believe everything you read.
Click to expand...

How do you know it was your BIOS SL sent you a new processor? I don't believe that a bios update allowed increased overclocking on manual voltage, that sounds dodgy.


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Set your alarms for 7:00 PM CST tomorrow, both the 8600K and 8700Ks will be going up at that time.

























Not sure if my wallet will wake up on time, though.


----------



## Sevin

Can't wait! Are you done binning this batch? Can you share the bin groups, pricing or actual CPU counts / % distribution per bin at all?


----------



## lukeg310

We will have to wait and see 5:00pm tomorrow PST / 7:00pm Central or 8:00pm EST


----------



## NaplesWebTech

WOW... going up in the PM was unexpected... so then its grab a SL cpu and then go out with my lady and grab a beer on Saturday night


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> How do you know it was your BIOS SL sent you a new processor? I don't believe that a bios update allowed increased overclocking on manual voltage, that sounds dodgy.


Adaptive voltage was not working correctly when I tested the first CPU didn't try manual voltage, used manual on the second CPU until UEFI was fixed, nothing dodgy on SL behalf it was my mistake assuming that adaptive voltage was working correctly when in fact it was not.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> How do you know it was your BIOS SL sent you a new processor? I don't believe that a bios update allowed increased overclocking on manual voltage, that sounds dodgy.
> 
> 
> 
> Adaptive voltage was not working correctly when I tested the first CPU didn't try manual voltage, used manual on the second CPU until UEFI was fixed, nothing dodgy on SL behalf it was my mistake assuming that adaptive voltage was working correctly when in fact it was not.
Click to expand...

Well then it is good that you admitted your mistake.







Sounds like SL does a good job helping out and there work.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Well then it is good that you admitted your mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like SL does a good job helping out and there work.


Im the first person to admit when Im wrong, unlike some


----------



## fixall

Man, I can't wait to find out the numbers on the 8700k tomorrow!

I have to wait until the 15th to pick up an 8700k so depending on availability through SL, I may have to look into picking up a retail CPU and sending it in for delidding. If 5Ghz isn't achieved on at least 70% of CPUs, that may not be an option though. I'm pretty curious to see the pricing on a 5.1Ghz (so I can run it at 5Ghz with lower voltage) considering the price gouging that has been going on with retail chips.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Im the first person to admit when Im wrong, _*unlike some
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_


you made my day sir...you made my day.


----------



## mistaneat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaplesWebTech*
> 
> WOW... going up in the PM was unexpected... so then its grab a SL cpu and then go out with my lady and grab a beer on Saturday night


Wish it was like half hour earlier as I have an even starting at that time. Gonna have to stealthily check SL on my phone haha.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

@Silicon Lottery 1) Are release prices going to be the same price for several months or are we going to see a drop in price after a month or two? IIRC SKL had pretty high initial release price but it came down as demand softened.

I don't judge price gauging assuming supply is truly limited of course









2) You wouldn't be offering a veterans day discount for little ole retirees like me would you?


----------



## Psychocipher

I look forward to seeing what binned clock speeds for 8700k are. SL will be doing delidding and frequency testing of my 7820x this coming week, hopefully its a 4.8ghz one.lol Im coming from a 5ghz 7700k that I also bought from SL.


----------



## Bothand Nether

I hope everyone gets the chip they want later today.
May the silicon pancake gods smile upon us all.

My 2600k/sabertooth just started acting twitchy at the beginning of this month,
after 5 years of 4.55ghz solid.

I suspect it knows it's time is near.
The clear braided USB cable is golden brown where it connects to the motherboard, lol.

Anyone remember the scene in Wizards where he coaxes his dying mount for one last ride?


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Set your alarms for 7:00 PM CST tomorrow, both the 8600K and 8700Ks will be going up at that time.


Thats 5:00PM Pacific and 8:00PM Eastern time so nobody misses out lol Don't be that guy that does cause they set 7:00PM Pacific or Eastern time







I wouldnt doubt they all sell out in an hour.


----------



## Timuka3T

What Case is everyone going to use with their SL CPU?


----------



## Sevin

I have everything built in a Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX TG. Just waiting for a CPU.


----------



## Scotty99

Actually cant decide lol. I have a full size atx board ready to go into my H440, but i think a ncase m1 sitting on my desk would be awesome as well.


----------



## Timuka3T

I hear of issues with that case and overheating.


----------



## afewyards

Going for a caseloads S5. you'll see the build probably in a couple of months..


----------



## lukeg310

I got myself a Corsair Crystal 570X but having second thoughts since it can only hold 240 radiator. I originally wanted to get 360 radiator but well see.


----------



## Nickedit

Below is my tale of frustration with the PC hardware market. I'm sure some of you can empathize.









For over a year now, I have been thinking about upgrading my aging GTX 970 and my ancient 2700K (4.8GHz). My plan has been to get a CPU from Silicon Lottery and an AMD GPU to go with my Asus 27" 144Hz Free-sync monitor.

My first-world problems began last November...

Nov 2016: Battlefield 1 is out and I'm not getting the FPS I'd like to have. I should upgrade. The 7700K is a great overclocker, but not going to improve FPS much for me, a GPU would do more. Besides, AMD Zen CPUs are coming in January, so I'll wait. GTX 1080 is great too, but I bought a Freesync monitor earlier this year, so I'm going to wait for AMDs next GPU; it should be out soon and be better than the 1080, right?

Feb 2017: Ryzen is out! Hmm, it's disappointing for Battlefield, which I all I really care about at the top end. Intel i9 is coming soon with more than 4 cores. I'll wait for that and see if it's reasonably priced and outperforms the 7700K. AMD GPU will be announced any day now. AMD will announce and then Nvidia will drop prices too, it'll be a great time to buy a GPU!

Jun 2017: i9 is out&#8230;lol, *** is this? Oh well, DDR4 is overpriced right now anyway. GPUs are even more overpriced now? AMD's next GPU is coming out any day now though, I guess I'll wait.

Jul 2017: Bought a new desk. Can't wait to build a new PC to put under it.

Aug 2017: AMD released Vega finally! Hmm, it's not better than Nvidia's year old GPUs in Battlefield. It's price is inflated, supply is limited, and it also runs too hot? Very disappointing. I wish I had spent $200 more on a G-Sync monitor last year, then I could buy a GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti with no regrets. 1080 is over a year old though, Nvidia should be releasing something new, maybe for Christmas? I've waited this long...I guess a few more months won't kill me.

Sep 2017: Intel releases _announces_ the 8700K. 6-cores at 5.0GHz+ sounds great! I'll get one from Silicon Lottery and finally upgrade my PC so my son can have my 2700K as his first gaming PC. Next gen Nvidia GPU, maybe in January? I can wait for that.

Oct 5, 2017: 8700K looks great...on paper. Supply is almost nonexistent. Oh well, I can wait a few weeks.

Nov 10, 2017: Finally, SL will have 8700K for sale and I have the whole day tomorrow to watch and wait. Plus, I get to play hockey with my friends tomorrow night at 7pm CDT. Should be a good day.

Nov 11, 2017: Today's the day! I hope SL didn't release the 8700K early this morning while I was still sleeping. 7pm, are you serious? The one time I can't be at my PC today? *sigh* I guess I'm not getting one from this first batch. Oh well, they will be over-priced anyway; I should wait until the price comes down in a few weeks. Maybe I'll go over to Newegg and look at that GTX 1080 again. Nice, Newegg is offering a Military Discount today. But is it worth it to buy the 1080 at this point? I mean, it's 18 months old now and the next Nvidia GPU should be out in March/April. DDR4 prices might come down by then too.

Maybe I should wait....


----------



## Sevin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> I hear of issues with that case and overheating.


I have read some issues with blow back on the top radiator mount if not properly blocked and I plan on getting the top and front panel water cut if I have airflow issues. I have seen some pretty good looking mods for those panels. I picked the case for looks knowing I might have to mod it to fit my needs. Probably my favorite part of building a computer.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

I just finished a Phantek's 400s with the side glass using a SL 8350K... and its running great! My current system is moving from its home in the Corsair 750D up to the 900D, getting the 6700k up to a SL 8700k, the mobo up to the Asrock Z370 i7 Pro, and the OS drive to a new Sammy 960 NVMe... oh and the ram up to Trident 32GB. I'm super pumped


----------



## Scotty99

Im curious what would be an average expectation for the standard delidded 8700k's, 4.8-4.9?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Im curious what would be an average expectation for the standard delidded 8700k's, 4.8-4.9?


You're going to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Im curious what would be an average expectation for the standard delidded 8700k's, 4.8-4.9?


4.9 sounds right


----------



## Timuka3T

between 4.8 and 5.4 but we find out later


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> You're going to be pleasantly surprised.


Thats good to hear!

I have never bought a chip from you guys but i think i may have to this time round, can you give an estimated shipping rate to minnesota? Either way it should be cheaper than if i bought one from newegg and a delid kit+liquid metal.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Im curious what would be an average expectation for the standard delidded 8700k's, 4.8-4.9?
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

Oh sure just tease us why don't you.


----------



## lukeg310

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> Below is my tale of frustration with the PC hardware market. I'm sure some of you can empathize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For over a year now, I have been thinking about upgrading my aging GTX 970 and my ancient 2700K (4.8GHz). My plan has been to get a CPU from Silicon Lottery and an AMD GPU to go with my Asus 27" 144Hz Free-sync monitor.
> 
> My first-world problems began last November...
> 
> Nov 2016: Battlefield 1 is out and I'm not getting the FPS I'd like to have. I should upgrade. The 7700K is a great overclocker, but not going to improve FPS much for me, a GPU would do more. Besides, AMD Zen CPUs are coming in January, so I'll wait. GTX 1080 is great too, but I bought a Freesync monitor earlier this year, so I'm going to wait for AMDs next GPU; it should be out soon and be better than the 1080, right?
> 
> Feb 2017: Ryzen is out! Hmm, it's disappointing for Battlefield, which I all I really care about at the top end. Intel i9 is coming soon with more than 4 cores. I'll wait for that and see if it's reasonably priced and outperforms the 7700K. AMD GPU will be announced any day now. AMD will announce and then Nvidia will drop prices too, it'll be a great time to buy a GPU!
> 
> Jun 2017: i9 is out&#8230;lol, *** is this? Oh well, DDR4 is overpriced right now anyway. GPUs are even more overpriced now? AMD's next GPU is coming out any day now though, I guess I'll wait.
> 
> Jul 2017: Bought a new desk. Can't wait to build a new PC to put under it.
> 
> Aug 2017: AMD released Vega finally! Hmm, it's not better than Nvidia's year old GPUs in Battlefield. It's price is inflated, supply is limited, and it also runs too hot? Very disappointing. I wish I had spent $200 more on a G-Sync monitor last year, then I could buy a GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti with no regrets. 1080 is over a year old though, Nvidia should be releasing something new, maybe for Christmas? I've waited this long...I guess a few more months won't kill me.
> 
> Sep 2017: Intel releases _announces_ the 8700K. 6-cores at 5.0GHz+ sounds great! I'll get one from Silicon Lottery and finally upgrade my PC so my son can have my 2700K as his first gaming PC. Next gen Nvidia GPU, maybe in January? I can wait for that.
> 
> Oct 5, 2017: 8700K looks great...on paper. Supply is almost nonexistent. Oh well, I can wait a few weeks.
> 
> Nov 10, 2017: Finally, SL will have 8700K for sale and I have the whole day tomorrow to watch and wait. Plus, I get to play hockey with my friends tomorrow night at 7pm CDT. Should be a good day.
> 
> Nov 11, 2017: Today's the day! I hope SL didn't release the 8700K early this morning while I was still sleeping. 7pm, are you serious? The one time I can't be at my PC today? *sigh* I guess I'm not getting one from this first batch. Oh well, they will be over-priced anyway; I should wait until the price comes down in a few weeks. Maybe I'll go over to Newegg and look at that GTX 1080 again. Nice, Newegg is offering a Military Discount today. But is it worth it to buy the 1080 at this point? I mean, it's 18 months old now and the next Nvidia GPU should be out in March/April. DDR4 prices might come down by then too.
> 
> Maybe I should wait....


Have you read about Nvidia's Volta cards that will be coming next year?


----------



## MrSmoogle

Probably not the best case but im going with the Fractal Meshify-C. Ill be cooling the cpu for now with x52, the x62 doesn't fit in this case. Be it that it is delidded I should be fine for now.


----------



## Timuka3T

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSmoogle*
> 
> Probably not the best case but im going with the Fractal Meshify-C. Ill be cooling the cpu for now with x52, the x62 doesn't fit in this case. Be it that it is delidded I should be fine for now.


Their are multiple people with this case and the X62 on pcpartpicker. it fits just in the front


----------



## fixall

Damnit... I was going to wait until the 15th to pick up an 8700k, but I just saw that a delidded 8700k is going to be going for $420 from SL. Considering the price gouging from retailers and the fact that it costs $60 to have SL delid and bin... I think I'm gonna just go ahead and pick up a CPU tonight if I can get a 5Ghz - 5.1Ghz for around $450.


----------



## MrSmoogle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> Their are multiple people with this case and the X62 on pcpartpicker. it fits just in the front


I wasn't sure if i should do a front radiator setup or not, I plan on getting a 1080ti as well to place in
and i'm not sure if i get a longer card if it will fit properly. However thank you for your input. This is my
first PC build in about 15 years and im going balls out, ive done hours of research and SL seems to
be the best source to goto!


----------



## Scotty99

Be careful, a radiator and fans in a meshify c will not allow room for a long GPU like a strix.

Dual fan cards would fit fine tho.


----------



## MrSmoogle

Just curious while I have some of you guys here, this is my first experience
with SL. How exactly will the checkout options look like for example? Will
it be a choice of 5 CPU options or will they all be 419$ with a true lottery of what you'll
end up with speed wise hence 4.8-5.2


----------



## Scotty99

I have no idea, also never bought from them. Im hoping binned chips start at 5.1 and you can get a 5.0 with the 420 dollar option.


----------



## fixall

There will be options for just a delidded 8600k/8700k with no guaranteed overclocks for $420 and options to choose a CPU with the bin speed you would like (for a price). Shipping should be around $15 for standard.

*Edit

Looks like I was incorrect and SL only sells binned CPUs.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> There will be options for just a delidded 8600k/8700k with no guaranteed overclocks for $420 and options to choose a CPU with the bin speed you would like (for a price). Shipping should be around $15 for standard.


We only sell binned processors. What's on the site now are just placeholders.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We only sell binned processors. What's on the site now are just placeholders.


Gotcha. I could have sworn you had some 7700k's last year that were just delidded. My mistake, thanks for the clarification!


----------



## fixall

.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSmoogle*
> 
> Just curious while I have some of you guys here, this is my first experience
> with SL. How exactly will the checkout options look like for example? Will
> it be a choice of 5 CPU options or will they all be 419$ with a true lottery of what you'll
> end up with speed wise hence 4.8-5.2


I have purchased from SL before and its easy... except YOU have to make a decision on what overclock speed to buy, and the prices go up accordingly.

There will be a placeholder for each clockspeed with the price for that particular clock... whatever those prices may be?

Its gonna be fun!!!


----------



## MrSmoogle

When buying from a regular retailer or from intel you're guaranteed to get 4.7+ when oc'ed right? What SL is basically doing is decyphering the natural lottery and selling these cpu's delidded and price accordingly. So the lowest binned processors im sure they would even bother selling will be 4.8 and delidded. Which at 419$ is fair to me, these processors originally started at 359$ msrp. So basically for 60$ youre getting a binned and delidded piece of equipment. Sounds worth it to me, if I am wrong about anything here will you guys fill me in please.


----------



## Asus11

what happened to 7700k stock?


----------



## Cryolence

Anyone have any mobo/memory recommendations to go with my 8700k? Time to move on from my 4790k?


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSmoogle*
> 
> When buying from a regular retailer or from intel you're guaranteed to get 4.7+ when oc'ed right? What SL is basically doing is decyphering the natural lottery and selling these cpu's delidded and price accordingly. So the lowest binned processors im sure they would even bother selling will be 4.8 and delidded. Which at 419$ is fair to me, these processors originally started at 359$ msrp. So basically for 60$ youre getting a binned and delidded piece of equipment. Sounds worth it to me, if I am wrong about anything here will you guys fill me in please.


I think you're correct.

My latest purchase was a SL 8350k that's binned at 5.0Ghz and I paid $209 + $10 Shipping - so $219.00 for a 5.0Ghz cpu. (direct from SL)

At that time that exact same processor, unbinned and non-delidded, was being gouged a bit on Amazon for $249.99!

I just checked it again on Amazon and here it is at.... you guessed it... $209.99 unbinned and non-delidded.

8350k on AMZ

IMHO and as a business owner SL is a great business concept and offers a great service for an outstanding price. So much is wrong with the world today its really nice when somethings' just right!


----------



## MrSmoogle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cryolence*
> 
> Anyone have any mobo/memory recommendations to go with my 8700k? Time to move on from my 4790k?


I am going with Aorus Gaming 7 (new version)

Ram i am going with G.skill TridentZ 16gb cas 14

mobo link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145036&cm_re=aorus_gaming_7-_-13-145-036-_-Product

Ram link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232407

I'm well aware as anyone should be that the 8700k does not favor or have a thirst for fast ram as the ryzen processors do, however lower latency will benefit any processor and will maybe squeeze if you're gonna be anal about it which i am maybe 3-5 more frames going from cas 16 to a cas 14 samsung bDie chipset.
As far as my mobo choice its one of the top ones out there with Asrock for ocing efficiently, and mostly my reasoning is for the aesthetics of the board and rgb programming, i plan on running times square out of my rig


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSmoogle*
> 
> I am going with Aorus Gaming 7 (new version)
> 
> Ram i am going with G.skill TridentZ 16gb cas 14
> 
> mobo link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145036&cm_re=aorus_gaming_7-_-13-145-036-_-Product
> 
> Ram link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232407
> 
> I'm well aware as anyone should be that the 8700k does not favor or have a thirst for fast ram as the ryzen processors do, however lower latency will benefit any processor and will maybe squeeze if you're gonna be anal about it which i am maybe 3-5 more frames going from cas 16 to a cas 14 samsung bDie chipset.
> As far as my mobo choice its one of the top ones out there with Asrock for ocing efficiently, and mostly my reasoning is for the aesthetics of the board and rgb programming, i plan on running times square out of my rig


Sweet! I have Asrock z170 and now z370...

and I have and LOVE Trident (@ case 14)


----------



## Cryolence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrSmoogle*
> 
> I am going with Aorus Gaming 7 (new version)
> 
> Ram i am going with G.skill TridentZ 16gb cas 14
> 
> mobo link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145036&cm_re=aorus_gaming_7-_-13-145-036-_-Product
> 
> Ram link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232407
> 
> I'm well aware as anyone should be that the 8700k does not favor or have a thirst for fast ram as the ryzen processors do, however lower latency will benefit any processor and will maybe squeeze if you're gonna be anal about it which i am maybe 3-5 more frames going from cas 16 to a cas 14 samsung bDie chipset.
> As far as my mobo choice its one of the top ones out there with Asrock for ocing efficiently, and mostly my reasoning is for the aesthetics of the board and rgb programming, i plan on running times square out of my rig


Ha that is exactly what I had sitting in my newegg cart...


----------



## MrfingerIII

What about Asrock Boards I live and Die by Asrock lol


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrfingerIII*
> 
> What about Asrock Boards I live and Die by Asrock lol


Me three!

I have the i7 Professional running 3 Sammy 950 NVMe's with a 6700k, and now I have the z370 i7 Pro for the 8700k. The z370 has the Aquantia 10Gb/s Ethernet... and I just got 1GB service at home... cant wait to build it and run it!

I love Asrock


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> Have you read about Nvidia's Volta cards that will be coming next year?


Yes, that's what I was referring to in maybe March/April. I've waited this long, may as well wait for Volta. What could go wrong? lol!


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> You're going to be pleasantly surprised.


Patiently waiting for your binning results. Out of curiosity.

If your 5Ghz bin i7-8700k stays at $420 it's actually cheaper than Newegg/Amazon/B&H/Microcenter (as well as other non mainstream places such as ShopBLT) once delidding/binning is accounted for...









I'm thinking it's 5GHz since that's what ASUS wrote in a i7-8700k article for 50th percentile.

edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrfingerIII*
> 
> What about Asrock Boards I live and Die by Asrock lol


*Motherboard:*
ASRock Z370 Extreme 4
ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Gaming K6
ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Professional Gaming i7
ASRock Z370 Taichi
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


----------



## MrfingerIII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaplesWebTech*
> 
> Me three!
> 
> I have the i7 Professional running 3 Sammy 950 NVMe's with a 6700k, and now I have the z370 i7 Pro for the 8700k. The z370 has the Aquantia 10Gb/s Ethernet... and I just got 1GB service at home... cant wait to build it and run it!
> 
> I love Asrock


I need to update my specs

Currently I am running a 6950x on a Asrock Professional X99

Second Rig Intel 6700k Asrock Fatality K6 will replace it with 8700k Delided









3rd Rig Ryzen 1600x Asrock Pro 5 B350

Asrock is that sticky Bomb Bomb lol


----------



## Asus11

these live in 5?


----------



## fixall

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5


----------



## fixall

Eek, wasn't expecting $540 for 5.1Ghz... Guess the overclocking wasn't quite what I was hoping for. 5Ghz for $480 it is.


----------



## Scotty99

479.00 for 5ghz, ya dont think i can do that.


----------



## redcloud0

holy ****, 4.9 and 5.0 sold out in less than two minutes....

edit: 5.3 gone less than a minute after

edit 2: full out of stock in 4 minutes


----------



## UtopiA

It's pretty reasonable since they're retailing $420.


----------



## royalkilla408

What the heck. I had the 5.1 ghz checking out.


----------



## lukeg310

I was at check out for i7 8700k and it went to sold out. Frustrating!!!


----------



## Sevin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> What the heck. I had the 5.1 ghz checking out.


Same and just took it out of the cart.


----------



## Asus11

a bit too rich for my blood considering id have to pay import duty on top!


----------



## fixall

I can't believe the 5.3Ghz 8700k sold out at $1000 that quickly.


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> It's pretty reasonable since they're retailing $420.


I mean sure if you look at it that way, but msrp is 359.00. Guess ill be waiting a while


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> It's pretty reasonable since they're retailing $420.


And they're delidded and tested.

Time is money, you know.









---
As of 11/11/17, 100% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 4.9GHz or greater. ( 1.387V Vcore -2 AVX Offset)
As of 11/11/17, the top 81% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.0GHz or greater. (1.40V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
As of 11/11/17, the top 58% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.1GHz or greater. (1.412V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
As of 11/11/17, the top 30% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.2GHz or greater. (1.425V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
As of 11/11/17, the top 6% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.( 1.437V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)


----------



## royalkilla408

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevin*
> 
> Same and just took it out of the cart.


Same.


----------



## Scotty99

Oh dont get me wrong its fair given current pricing, but current pricing at newegg for example isnt going to last.


----------



## Chuuko

was spamming refresh to grab one and it sold out while i was in checkout....


----------



## HamburgerPls

Welp, they sold out in under a minute. Any idea when you will have them back in stock?


----------



## Thrakazog

Wow........$1000 for 5.3

I think I will wait for stock to normalize a bit, and for prices to come down some.

Still looking forward to getting an SL cpu.....juuuuuust not today


----------



## NaplesWebTech

5.0Ghz for $491.39 with Priority Shipping and Insurance works for me!


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> Wow........$1000 for 5.3
> 
> I think I will wait for stock to normalize a bit, and for prices to come down some.
> 
> Still looking forward to getting an SL cpu.....juuuuuust not today


x 2 this


----------



## Bothand Nether

Like lightning.
I clicked on the one I wanted, hit paypal, got transferred to paypal, submitted payment,
then was transferred BACK to SL site again to re-verify.
Unusual process, never had that many steps to a paypal payment before....too bad it took too long for me.

Looking forward to the next batch!


----------



## redcloud0

so the numbers we have from the website:

4.9 GHz: 100%
5.0 GHz: 81%
5.1 GHz: 58%
5.2 GHz: 30%
5.3 GHz: 6%

really wanted a 5.2 but $660 was too rich for my blood, guess I'll be satisfied with a 5.1


----------



## Shalamay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Like lightning.
> I clicked on the one I wanted, hit paypal, got transferred to paypal, submitted payment,
> then was transferred BACK to SL site again to re-verify.
> Unusual process, never had that many steps to a paypal payment before....too bad it took too long for me.
> 
> Looking forward to the next batch!


That's the same thing that got me. I was logged into Paypal too. Just one too many clicks I guess.


----------



## Sevin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shalamay*
> 
> That's the same thing that got me. I was logged into Paypal too. Just one too many clicks I guess.


Same I used paypal too and it removed it from my cart when selecting shipping.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shalamay*
> 
> That's the same thing that got me. I was logged into Paypal too. Just one too many clicks I guess.


I had to fill out my phone # when I was re-directed back to the SL site the final time, although that info is already in my Paypal information, fwiw.
I sincerely hope that phone # information will be retained & present if I am fortunate enough to get a shot at the next batch.
Gratz to the quick-fingered!


----------



## Nalph

So I know it's a bit early to ask obviously, But any Idea when the next batch would be available?, I heard there was roughly 100 available. And I'm guessing they are being sold in small batches, Like that one. 1 - 5 of each at a time?.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> I had to fill out my phone # when I was re-directed back to the SL site the final time, although that info is already in my Paypal information, fwiw.
> I sincerely hope that phone # information will be retained & present if I am fortunate enough to get a shot at the next batch.
> Gratz to the quick-fingered!


I was able to grab a 5.0Ghz + Priority Shipping anyway... BUT it made me do the phone number thing also... which was weird??!?

I have never been asked to do that...?

Sorry it shut you down man


----------



## Bothand Nether

Kafka-Close, I tell you, Kafka close.








prettysure that # is the final step in teh process,
I'd already done the shipping & everything.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Well, I managed to snag one of the 5.2ghz 8700Ks.

I was not prepared for the level of price hike that I saw upon seeing the page refresh.

I had originally planned on buying the top binned chip... *nope*.

I thought in my head: "my girlfriend is getting my hand-me-downs so this is ok" and slew the beast with my credit card.

Time to get ready to build a new system!









Also I have no idea how I never made an account on this forum until now as I've been reading it for years.


----------



## Scotty99

Who is buying 8600k's? Losing that hyperthreading is gonna show up in games sooner than you may think, already some titles that play better on 8700k's.


----------



## bcmmbc122333

Got my hands on a 5.1ghz 8700k! Cost more than I was expecting but it is what it is. What is the lowest voltage you guys think I could run a stable 5ghz oc with knowing I got a 5.1ghz bin?


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Who is buying 8600k's? Losing that hyperthreading is gonna show up in games sooner than you may think, already some titles that play better on 8700k's.


I remember everyone calling me an idiot when I decided to go with a 2600k instead of a 2500k. Who's laughing now... That sucker is still running STRONG @4.9Ghz in my secondary system and performs almost exactly the same as the 4770k @4.4Ghz in my main system.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> Well, I managed to snag one of the 5.2ghz 8700Ks.
> 
> I was not prepared for the level of price hike that I saw upon seeing the page refresh.
> 
> I had originally planned on buying the top binned chip... *nope*.
> 
> I thought in my head: "my girlfriend is getting my hand-me-downs so this is ok" and slew the beast with my credit card.
> 
> Time to get ready to build a new system!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I have no idea how I never made an account on this forum until now as I've been reading it for years.


Well welcome!

I was here up until a year ago but recently started a new account.

BTW for any guys that didn't get a chip tonight from SL but are in need... B&H is taking orders right now and projecting stock again in 3-7 days.

At $415 bucks you can send it to SL, get it delidded, and be in business in probably 2 weeks.

Check it out here men: B&H 8700k

Again, welcome to the new guys, it was a lot of fun tonight... enjoy!


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> I remember everyone calling me an idiot when I decided to go with a 2600k instead of a 2500k. Who's laughing now... That sucker is still running STRONG @4.9Ghz in my secondary system and performs almost exactly the same as the 4770k @4.4Ghz in my main system.


You were definitely smarter than me, a went with 2500k and learned my lesson lol. At the time tho, literally no games used hyperthreading, that is becoming a commonality now.


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaplesWebTech*
> 
> Well welcome!
> 
> I was here up until a year ago but recently started a new account.
> 
> BTW for any guys that didn't get a chip tonight from SL but are in need... B&H is taking orders right now and projecting stock again in 3-7 days.
> 
> At $415 bucks you can send it to SL, get it delidded, and be in business a probably 2 weeks.
> 
> Check it out here men: B&H 8700k
> 
> Again, welcome to the new guys, it was a lot of fun tonight... enjoy!


I plan on doing that but how am i guaranteed they wont steal my 5.3ghz 8700k and just swap lids lol? Im not saying this is something they do whatsoever, but how would i be able to check if it is the exact same chip i send them that i get back lol.


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> I plan on doing that but how am i guaranteed they wont steal my 5.3ghz 8700k and just swap lids lol? Im not saying this is something they do whatsoever, but how would i be able to check if it is the exact same chip i send them that i get back lol.


My wife's Maltipoo would just pee on his, thus marking his territory adequately and insuring that NO ONE takes his CPU!









J/K ... maybe tell SL you are putting an identifying mark on it somehow?


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> I plan on doing that but how am i guaranteed they wont steal my 5.3ghz 8700k and just swap lids lol? Im not saying this is something they do whatsoever, but how would i be able to check if it is the exact same chip i send them that i get back lol.


The serial number is in a QR code on the processor substrate. Just make sure you get the same serial number back.


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> The serial number is in a QR code on the processor substrate. Just make sure you get the same serial number back.


I see did not know that (thought it was all on the lid). Preciate it.


----------



## IMI4tth3w

wow. impressive how quickly that sold out. Wonder how big the initial batch size was.

Pricing is definitely reflective of lack of inventory. Will be nice once these things aren't so rare and prices come down a bit. I'd love to get a 5.2 chip in the near future.

Some people in here getting way too caught up with being unable to purchase this go around. Over 50% of the 8700k's are hitting 5.1GHz... Unless you are wanting a 5.2 or 5.3 chip, odds are pretty good for a decent chip if you pick one up from normal means. Although that of course means no/limited warranty if you go the delid route as Intel may or may not accept the delidded CPU for RMA.


----------



## eyeball

What is most frustrating about missing out on this is that I had a damn processor from new egg ordered and fedex had it out for delivery then marked it "delivered" despite never even coming to my house. They didn't even try to look for it. After calling they said "give us two days to research". I called back after their 48 hours were up and they said "we couldn't get a hold of the courier, go ahead and file a claim'. ***

I could have shipped that one to SL and had them do the delid and had it back already for less in total than the price I tried to pay for the 4.9 tonight. I'm cursed.


----------



## IMI4tth3w

For those of you who picked up a shiney new 8700k and are interested in the asus maximus x hero, i got a code in an email a couple days ago that's good til the 14th for $20 off on newegg


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMI4tth3w*
> 
> For those of you who picked up a shiney new 8700k and are interested in the asus maximus x hero, i got a code in an email a couple days ago that's good til the 14th for $20 off on newegg


That's the exact board I'm picking up. Unfortunately, it looks like my e-mail address isn't valid to redeem the promo code.


----------



## VRoman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyeball*
> 
> What is most frustrating about missing out on this is that I had a damn processor from new egg ordered and fedex had it out for delivery then marked it "delivered" despite never even coming to my house. They didn't even try to look for it. After calling they said "give us two days to research". I called back after their 48 hours were up and they said "we couldn't get a hold of the courier, go ahead and file a claim'.


FedEx subcontracts USPS and USPS does this kind of sh all the time. For me it usually shows up a day or two later after its marked delivered. They never hit the delivery date when USPS is helping.


----------



## evensen007

That pricing is pretty terrible. I know we've all got stokholm syndrome from the low inventory and rapey newegg pricing, but cmon. 450 for a bottom binned chip? That puts it almost 100 dollars over MSRP for basically a delid on a **** chip.

Captalism is great and all. Im just shocked people lined up to get bent over like this.


----------



## CodeMonkey11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> That pricing is pretty terrible. I know we've all got stokholm syndrome from the low inventory and rapey newegg pricing, but cmon. 450 for a bottom binned chip? That puts it almost 100 dollars over MSRP for basically a delid on a **** chip.
> 
> Captalism is great and all. Im just shocked people lined up to get bent over like this.


While MSRP is $359 (in theory), I haven't seen them listed anywhere below $400-420. Consider that they list 8700k delidding at $40, bottom bin of $450 and 5.0 at $480 isn't absurd.

This is unfortunately the side effect of there not being any stock anywhere, MSRP doesn't mean anything if you want to get this CPU anytime soon.


----------



## Scotty99

The thing is they will get there eventually, they released at 379.99. 359.00 is only a month out, if that.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

I'm sorry that not all of you that were able to grab a processor that wanted to. We went through over 100 8700Ks tonight, and we still have a few hundred more on order. As to when they'll come in, I'd assume by the end of this month. All orders placed today will ship on Monday.

We have a good chunk of 8600Ks we still need to test (that's the reason the 8600K statistics aren't up yet, our sample size is still a bit small), and a handful of 8700Ks. These will be going up periodically throughout the day starting Monday.

Pricing will come down over time, but as it stands right now we ourselves are having to pay more than MSRP for these chips as they come in.

We also have a ton of emails and messages to sort through, I'm sorry for the slow response time. Any future information on availability will be posted in this thread.


----------



## thebski

I wanted to pick up a 5.3 chip, but $1000 is too much for an 8700K. Hopefully prices will come back to earth as supply increases.


----------



## Scotty99

Ya there is a limit to the amount of people that will pay 60 over MSRP for a product. I do feel bad for the people on sandy and older wanting to upgrade, luckily ryzen is good enough to hold me over lol.


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> And they're delidded and tested.
> 
> Time is money, you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> As of 11/11/17, 100% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 4.9GHz or greater. ( 1.387V Vcore -2 AVX Offset)
> As of 11/11/17, the top 81% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.0GHz or greater. (1.40V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
> As of 11/11/17, the top 58% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.1GHz or greater. (1.412V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
> As of 11/11/17, the top 30% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.2GHz or greater. (1.425V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)
> As of 11/11/17, the top 6% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.( 1.437V Vcore , -2 AVX Offset)


That means for every 100 sold...
6 were binned at 5.3 GHz and sold for $1000 each, or $6000 total.
24 were binned at 5.2 GHz and sold for $660 each, or $15,840 total.
28 were binned at 5.1 GHz and sold for $540 each, or $15,120 total.
23 were binned at 5.0 GHz and sold for $480 each, or $11,040 total.
19 were binned at 4.9 GHz and sold for $450 each, or $8,550 total.

Each set of 100 8700K CPUs sold for a grand total of $56,550.

If they were purchased for $420 each (market value), that's a total of $42,000, and a gross profit of $14,550 or 35%.
If they were purchased for $360 each (MSRP), that's a total of $36,000, and a gross profit of $20,550 or 57%.
The actual gross profit is likely some where in between these two numbers.

That seems very reasonable considering operating costs like hardware, salaries, security, and interest on the loans needed to stock hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of CPUs.

Can't wait for the 5.0 GHz to be back in-stock. I hope I get one of the next batch.


----------



## dante`afk

Lmao their batches must be really really bad if they need 1.40 for 5ghz. I suspect L730C3xx - everything below went pretty good with sub 1.3, even sub 1.25 and some with just a 1.168


----------



## Bothand Nether

FWIW, the Maximus X Apex popped up onto the nowinstock.net radar a day or two ago,
-It's on pre-order at Amazon for 349.99 USD.

I'm waiting for the Formula, I hope my 2600k will hold out that long.

I also noticed a promo ROG is running that gives you a free mouse if you buy a GFX & mobo from them.

The reason I mention this is that the promo runs through November,
-& the Formula as well as the Code & Apex are listed as qualifying boards for the offer.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dante`afk*
> 
> Lmao their batches must be really really bad if they need 1.40 for 5ghz. I suspect L730C3xx - everything below went pretty good with sub 1.3, even sub 1.25 and some with just a 1.168


Their stability tests are probably pretty tough. Much tougher than the average user I would wager a guess.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dante`afk*
> 
> Lmao their batches must be really really bad if they need 1.40 for 5ghz. I suspect L730C3xx - everything below went pretty good with sub 1.3, even sub 1.25 and some with just a 1.168


They test by voltage not frequency, meaning just because it took 1.4V to get 5Ghz stable using their testing method doesn't mean that you couldn't get [email protected] or lower using your own or even theirs if you knew what that was. As you know some stress tests require more Vcore than others for the same frequency. Batch number at best is a rough guide only and no guarantee


----------



## VRoman

Nickedit, thanks for showing the numbers. As a consumer I say prices were very high, as a businessmen I say that prices were just right. Everything was sold out in minutes. The profit percentage may be a little high, but I perfectly understand that this is a way to make up for the lack of volume in sales. These people still need to eat even if there is no CPUs to test. They even had to bring back Kaby Lake yet again. Once Intel is able to supply CPUs the pricing will settle down to where it needs to be. I'm surprised that they only order 100 at a time...


----------



## Seyumi

I've been around since Silicon Lottery started and this was by far the most expensive premium I've ever seen on any launch. $999 for a top binned $370 MSRP processor is almost 3x the price. That's a bit absurd as I can almost buy a dozen of these myself and keep the top binned chip and sell the rest for a loss. I've never seen a SL top bin chip go for more than 50%~100% over MSRP and now we're at 300%?

Although I can see the reasoning (high demand, having to pay over MSRP, doing a more thorough stability test, ect.) it brings it to the point where maybe I should just be looking into a 7900X since it's now in that price bracket. It's almost like buying a top 3% binned GTX 1080 for $750 when I can just get a stock 1080TI for the same price.

I've bought many processors from Silicon Lottery and I hope the prices come down and not trend up more and more after each and every new series launch. Obvious the pricing was perfect (actually probably too low) considering how fast they sold out. Congratulations to everyone and thank you Silicon Lottery for providing this service but for me I'm either going to wait for the prices to come down or I may venture into the Skylake X territory if I'm going to drop 1k+ on a processor.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> I've been around since Silicon Lottery started and this was by far the most expensive premium I've ever seen on any launch. $999 for a top binned $370 MSRP processor is almost 3x the price. That's a bit absurd as I can almost buy a dozen of these myself and keep the top binned chip and sell the rest for a loss.
> 
> Although I can see the reasoning (high demand, having to pay over MSRP, doing a more thorough stability test, ect.) it brings it to the point where maybe I should just be looking into a 7900X since it's now in that price bracket. It's almost like buying a top 3% binned GTX 1080 for $750 when I can just get a stock 1080TI for the same price.
> 
> I've bought many processors from Silicon Lottery and I hope the prices come down and not trend up more and more after each and every new series launch. Obvious the pricing was perfect (actually probably too low) considering how fast they sold out. Congratulations to everyone and thank you Silicon Lottery for providing this service but for me I'm either going to wait for the prices to come down or I may venture into the Skylake X territory if I'm going to drop 1k+ on a processor.


Silicon lotteries price is reasonable considering supply and demand, cant blame them for wanting to make a profit. I have purchased from silicon lottery several times in the past, the only thing that disappoints me is the -2AVX offset, to me that makes a 5.2Ghz binned CPU really only a 5Ghz CPU,early days of Kaby lake Silicon lottery never used to do this.


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Silicon lotteries price is reasonable considering supply and demand, cant blame them for wanting to make a profit. I have purchased from silicon lottery several times in the past, the only thing that disappoints me is the -2AVX offset, to me that makes a 5.2Ghz binned CPU really only a 5Ghz CPU,early days of Kaby lake Silicon lottery never used to do this.


But they also didn't use prime 95 and linpack back then. It's not like you are forced to use the negative offset if you don't want to (as it seems you aren't now).


----------



## Seyumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Silicon lotteries price is reasonable considering supply and demand, cant blame them for wanting to make a profit. I have purchased from silicon lottery several times in the past, the only thing that disappoints me is the -2AVX offset, to me that makes a 5.2Ghz binned CPU really only a 5Ghz CPU,early days of Kaby lake Silicon lottery never used to do this.


I'm sorry but what's the whole AVX offset again in lamest terms? Doing a bit of Googling isn't helping. For example, the SL 7900X 4.8GHZ has a -3AVX offset and -5AVX512 offset to guarantee stability. I'm purely a gamer only so that does mean it's really only running at 4.5Ghz or 4.3Ghz and not 4.8Ghz?


----------



## DarthFK

Seyumi I think you have the answer on the previous page on the price vs expenses of SL.
Yet, scracy, but supply is where Intel showed problems. 7700k sold at or below msrp, 8700k due to supply, sells as is. To cut the long story short (rushed response to Ryzen, engineering, manufacturing) the supply didn't work for now and by the time it works Ryzen+ will be close enough. Good profit & fast & now, for Intel, it seems. Just don't know.


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> I'm sorry but what's the whole AVX offset again in lamest terms? Doing a bit of Googling isn't helping. For example, the SL 7900X 4.8GHZ has a -3AVX offset and -5AVX512 offset to guarantee stability. I'm purely a gamer only so that does mean it's really only running at 4.5Ghz or 4.3Ghz and not 4.8Ghz?


I'm not aware of a single game that uses AVX, so you'd be running at 4.8.


----------



## Dylanlip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> I'm not aware of a single game that uses AVX, so you'd be running at 4.8.


CPU-intensive emulators like Dolphin seem to use AVX, soooooo yeah. That might be an issue.


----------



## Seyumi

One of my problems is that I upgrade my hardware yearly or after the next gen of anything comes out. I'm pretty much on my 5th SL processor at this point. As you know there's always a new top end GPU every 1-2 years and a new CPU every 1 year. GPU's are a bit more unpredictable as launch times aren't as consistent and now we have Nvidia dropping Titan's into the mix so you don't know if the next GPU will be a $500~$700 x80 series or a $1200+ Titan series.

If I buy a 1k 8700k, it WILL be replaced within 12 months by a $370 9700K. For me, that's a pretty big loss when I upgrade to the next processor, even if it's nothing more than a slightly overclocked 8700k. The 1K 8700k will probably sell for <$250 and I know this from experience selling my last 4 SL CPU's. My SL CPU's are now the worse resale value item in my system, even more than a freaking Titan that would get spanked by the next $500'ish x80 iteration. These things do not hold their value well unfortunately.

Sorry I'm not trying to be so negative. I fully support this company and I'm going to buy a top-binned 8700k or 7900X in the near future, it's just the premiums are getting higher every launch and I'm not too sure my wallet can keep up with it anymore so it's a bit disheartening.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> But they also didn't use prime 95 and linpack back then. It's not like you are forced to use the negative offset if you don't want to (as it seems you aren't now).


My 7700K runs OCCT/Realbench stable for an hour each [email protected] with an AVX offset of 0 which to me makes it a true 5.2Ghz CPU, to pass Realbench took only 1.375V but OCCT took 1.39V, this is what I was getting at. Every set up is different,given how many CPU's Silicon lottery test can you imagine how long it would take to dial in the overclock for every single CPU that they bin? It simply wouldn't make good business sense and ultimately its up to the end user to do so. My understanding is that they would test a few CPU's (of a new generation) and see what sort of voltages are required for a given frequency and test accordingly, meaning a 5Ghz CPU passes at 1.4V using their tests. I doubt they would test that same CPU at 1.3V or lower for simple business reasons ie: the time it would take to do it. Out of say 80 CPU's they passed at 5Ghz/1.4V some of them would pass the same test at 1.3V or lower but hit a wall at 5.1Ghz at the voltage they test 5.1Ghz bin at, so they become a 5Ghz bin. You could argue at Silicon lottery CPU's are better because they offer a 5.3Ghz bin as opposed to Caseking only offering a max bin of 5.2Ghz but Caseking stress test with prime 95, we dont know what Silicon lottery uses.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

what tests does he run now? I dont see it listed on site. I know he changed it but i dont recall what the testing procedure was.


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> My 7700K runs OCCT/Realbench stable for an hour each [email protected] with an AVX offset of 0 which to me makes it a true 5.2Ghz CPU, to pass Realbench took only 1.375V but OCCT took 1.39V, this is what I was getting at. Every set up is different,given how many CPU's Silicon lottery test can you imagine how long it would take to dial in the overclock for every single CPU that they bin? It simply wouldn't make good business sense and ultimately its up to the end user to do so. My understanding is that they would test a few CPU's (of a new generation) and see what sort of voltages are required for a given frequency and test accordingly, meaning a 5Ghz CPU passes at 1.4V using their tests. I doubt they would test that same CPU at 1.3V or lower for simple business reasons ie: the time it would take to do it. Out of say 80 CPU's they passed at 5Ghz/1.4V some of them would pass the same test at 1.3V or lower but hit a wall at 5.1Ghz at the voltage they test 5.1Ghz bin at, so they become a 5Ghz bin. You could argue at Silicon lottery CPU's are better because they offer a 5.3Ghz bin as opposed to Caseking only offering a max bin of 5.2Ghz but Caseking stress test with prime 95, we dont know what Silicon lottery uses.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> A mix of everything (non-avx prime, linpack) along with some custom software. Exact details are a bit of a trade secret.


My point is, the AVX offset allows all potential software to run on an overclocked system, without sacrificing SSE performance. I doubt you could run AVX prime or linpack at 5.2GHz, so in my opinion you don't have a "true 5.2GHz CPU" anymore so than the current 5.2GHz SL offerings. There's nothing wrong with not using an AVX offset if you don't use programs that intensive, but as I mentioned nothing about Sl's current listings would force you to use an AVX offset. You could do the same as you do now, simply not apply an offset and tweak the voltage a bit up or down for just Realbench.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We are using a wide variety of stress tests (including P95, LinX, and the likes) along with leaving in some headroom. Processors should successfully run any software used. A 5.2GHz chip now is somewhat comparable to a 5.15-5.225GHz chip of the past. It's not exactly a 1:1 comparison scenario, since across many stress tests processors bin differently than just an hour of Realbench. (One processor might be really good at Realbench, but bad at P95 for example.)


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> My point is, the AVX offset allows all potential software to run on an overclocked system, without sacrificing SSE performance. *I doubt you could run AVX prime or linpack at 5.2GHz*, so in my opinion you don't have a "true 5.2GHz CPU" anymore so than the current 5.2GHz SL offerings. There's nothing wrong with not using an AVX offset if you don't use programs that intensive, but as I mentioned nothing about Sl's current listings would force you to use an AVX offset. You could do the same as you do now, simply not apply an offset and tweak the voltage a bit up or down for just Realbench.


AVX linpack @5.2Ghz for 10 minutes







only 10 minutes but less stressful than OCCT large.

Silicon lottery mentioned in the past that they use AVX offset to get more CPU's to pass their top bin of 5.2Ghz at the time. I purchased mine prior to them changing their testing proceedures


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> AVX linpack @5.2Ghz for 10 minutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only 10 minutes but less stressful than OCCT large.
> Silicon lottery mentioned in the past that they use AVX offset to get more CPU's to pass their top bin of 5.2Ghz at the time. I purchased mine prior to them changing their testing proceedures


You have a nice CPU! I was referring to modern linkpack binaries though which uses AVX2 or the latest P95 small FFTs, unfortunately what's in OCCT is pretty easy in comparison.

They went with the AVX offset so they could pass all stress tests, not to have higher bins which you can read in the quote/thread above. Considering before and after 5.2GHz was the top bin, not much seemed to change in that regard.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> You have a nice CPU! I was referring to modern linkpack binaries though which uses AVX2 or the latest P95 small FFTs, unfortunately what's in OCCT is pretty easy in comparison.
> 
> They went with the AVX offset so they could pass all stress tests, not to have higher bins which you can read in the quote/thread above. Considering before and after 5.2GHz was the top bin, not much seemed to change in that regard.


OCCT large at [email protected] (UEFI)

Im not suggesting that the testing method SL use now is any worse or better than before, all Im saying is that -2AVX offset disclaimer potentially (but not necessarily) means it is not a true 5.2Ghz CPU since to me it should be able to utilise all instruction sets at that binned frequency. You might find a 5.3Ghz 8700K may well run at 5.3Ghz without any AVX offset. When I purchased mine SL didnt use an AVX offset but they did have a +/- 100Mhz core speed disclaimer instead. It is understandable considering SL have no control over what the end users components are or the end users knowledge of overclocking.


----------



## AsusFan30

Scored Mine Today! These sold out in about 4 Minutes!


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AsusFan30*
> 
> 
> 
> Scored Mine Today! These sold out in about 4 Minutes!


Four minutes?
I watched everything sell out in less than one.
Interesting.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AsusFan30*
> 
> 
> 
> Scored Mine Today! These sold out in about 4 Minutes!


Congrats







One thing I will say I have sold all my SL delided CPU's from previous generations (except my 7700K) and in my experience I haven't taken a huge loss in terms of resale value and have sold them well above retail price for a new one in my country, SL excellent reputation is becoming well known and as such has actually increased resale value despite being delided.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> You have a nice CPU! I was referring to modern linkpack binaries though which uses AVX2 or the latest P95 small FFTs, unfortunately what's in OCCT is pretty easy in comparison.
> 
> They went with the AVX offset so they could pass all stress tests, not to have higher bins which you can read in the quote/thread above. Considering before and after 5.2GHz was the top bin, not much seemed to change in that regard.
> 
> 
> 
> OCCT large at [email protected] (UEFI)
> 
> Im not suggesting that the testing method SL use now is any worse or better than before, all Im saying is that -2AVX offset disclaimer potentially (but not necessarily) means it is not a true 5.2Ghz CPU since to me it should be able to utilise all instruction sets at that binned frequency. You might find a 5.3Ghz 8700K may well run at 5.3Ghz without any AVX offset. When I purchased mine SL didnt use an AVX offset but they did have a +/- 100Mhz core speed disclaimer instead. It is understandable considering SL have no control over what the end users components are or the end users knowledge of overclocking.
Click to expand...

SL does not guarantee you can run there coffee lake processors with AVX 0 end of story.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> SL does not guarantee you can run there coffee lake processors with AVX 0 end of story.


I dont think you could expect them too, AVX is the instruction set that generates most of the heat, heat=instability, SL have no control over the end users cooling setup, doesn't mean necessarily that you cant run SL CPU without an AVX offset at binned speed.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> A mix of everything (non-avx prime, linpack) along with some custom software. Exact details are a bit of a trade secret.


this is not reassuring as a customer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> ........We are using a wide variety of stress tests (including P95, LinX, and the likes) along with leaving in some headroom. Processors should successfully run any software used. A 5.2GHz chip now is somewhat comparable to a 5.15-5.225GHz chip of the past. It's not exactly a 1:1 comparison scenario, since across many stress tests processors bin differently than just an hour of Realbench. (One processor might be really good at Realbench, but bad at P95 for example.)


So how long is the testing? Before it was 1 hour. I always added an extra .02v and ran fine with 24 hours of real bench and other tests but not stating how you test always comes off as shady to me. I always assume and expect the worse...I see no reason for not telling your customers how you test them. Not saying is shady and doesnt show very much confidence in your testing procedure and seems like your trying to hide weak testing. If it was solid testing why would you not trumpet it around....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> I dont think you could expect them too, AVX is the instruction set that generates most of the heat, heat=instability, SL have no control over the end users cooling setup, doesn't mean necessarily that you cant run SL CPU without an AVX offset at binned speed.


AVX also only matters for a small subset of people. It isnt really something most people use so most people can get a lot more performance out of a CPU. If it never crashes on your work load it is stable for your needs.

If you need to use AVX down clock...plain and simple


----------



## fixall

I don't know about other people, but I want my CPU tested for stability... Not stressed to the point of degradation.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> I don't know about other people, but I want my CPU tested for stability... Not stressed to the point of degradation.


Stability is purely subjective







everyone has their own thoughts on stability, personally 1 hour of Realbench followed by an hour of OCCT large with AVX=0 is not going to degrade a CPU provided you keep temperatures in check. Using this method I have never had a BSOD as a result of CPU instability, I have had BSOD for other reasons eg: not disabling fast boot in Windows and in the UEFI


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> A mix of everything (non-avx prime, linpack) along with some custom software. Exact details are a bit of a trade secret.
> 
> 
> 
> this is not reassuring as a customer.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> ........We are using a wide variety of stress tests (including P95, LinX, and the likes) along with leaving in some headroom. Processors should successfully run any software used. A 5.2GHz chip now is somewhat comparable to a 5.15-5.225GHz chip of the past. It's not exactly a 1:1 comparison scenario, since across many stress tests processors bin differently than just an hour of Realbench. (One processor might be really good at Realbench, but bad at P95 for example.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how long is the testing? Before it was 1 hour. I always added an extra .02v and ran fine with 24 hours of real bench and other tests but not stating how you test always comes off as shady to me. I always assume and expect the worse...I see no reason for not telling your customers how you test them. Not saying is shady and doesnt show very much confidence in your testing procedure and seems like your trying to hide weak testing. If it was solid testing why would you not trumpet it around....
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> I dont think you could expect them too, AVX is the instruction set that generates most of the heat, heat=instability, SL have no control over the end users cooling setup, doesn't mean necessarily that you cant run SL CPU without an AVX offset at binned speed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AVX also only matters for a small subset of people. It isnt really something most people use so most people can get a lot more performance out of a CPU. If it never crashes on your work load it is stable for your needs.
> 
> If you need to use AVX down clock...plain and simple
Click to expand...

Chrome and some games use AVX so why don't you down clock.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Stability is purely subjective...


Fair enough.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> I don't know about other people, but I want my CPU tested for stability... Not stressed to the point of degradation.
> 
> 
> 
> Stability is purely subjective
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> everyone has their own thoughts on stability, personally 1 hour of Realbench followed by an hour of OCCT large with AVX=0 is not going to degrade a CPU provided you keep temperatures in check. Using this method I have never had a BSOD as a result of CPU instability, I have had BSOD for other reasons eg: not disabling fast boot in Windows and in the UEFI
Click to expand...

My fast boot works fine your CHIP is not stable. I never have BSOD.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> My fast boot works fine your CHIP is not stable.


Really







so drivers not loading properly because of fast boot being enabled means my CPU is unstable.....yeah right!


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> SL does not guarantee you can run there coffee lake processors with AVX 0 end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think you could expect them too, AVX is the instruction set that generates most of the heat, heat=instability, SL have no control over the end users cooling setup, doesn't mean necessarily that you cant run SL CPU without an AVX offset at binned speed.
Click to expand...

If you complain that it does not run stable with AVX off they will say that is your problem.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> My fast boot works fine your CHIP is not stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so drivers not loading properly because of fast boot being enabled means my CPU is unstable.....yeah right!
Click to expand...

CPU loads the drivers.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> CPU loads the drivers.


Look up what fast boot with Windows 10 does in regards to drivers, it does not reload the drivers from scratch! BSOD as a result of a graphics driver not loading properly for example, disabled fast boot 6 months ago haven't had a BSOD since,yet still same workloads.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> CPU loads the drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look up what fast boot with Windows 10 does in regards to drivers, it does not reload the drivers from scratch! BSOD as a result of a graphics driver not loading properly for example, disabled fast boot 6 months ago haven't had a BSOD since,yet still same workloads.
Click to expand...

I know what windows drivers are and the Bios ladder loads the OS then the drivers using the CPU, the drivers are loaded into memory with the use of the CPU. Your CPU is unstable, run stock with fast boot and you will see.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I know what windows drivers are and the Bios ladder loads the OS then the drivers using the CPU, the drivers are loaded into memory with the use of the CPU. Your CPU is unstable, run stock with fast boot and you will see.


Whatever dude, some people cannot admit when they are wrong, I will leave it at that.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Whatever dude, some people cannot admit when they are wrong, I will leave it at that.


he is just blank (safe spaces) posting and trolling. just ignore him.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> I know what windows drivers are and the Bios ladder loads the OS then the drivers using the CPU, the drivers are loaded into memory with the use of the CPU. Your CPU is unstable, run stock with fast boot and you will see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever dude, some people cannot admit when they are wrong, I will leave it at that.
Click to expand...

Fast boot in windows works fine for all stock PCs in the world. Your the one with the problem having to disable a feature in windows do to stability trouble.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Whatever dude, some people cannot admit when they are wrong, I will leave it at that.
> 
> 
> 
> he is just blank (safe spaces) posting and trolling. just ignore him.
Click to expand...

He has a problem with stability and that is the kind of help you can give, go back to your safe space.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> he is just blank (safe spaces) posting and trolling. just ignore him.


Yeah i should have known better...


----------



## encrypted11

Some are missing the point.

The previous test methodology (vcore specified with an hour of realbench stress test) applied on early Kaby Lake older releases were a reasonable "proof of capability" test on the chip without weaseling out on subtests requring more CPU rigour *at its weakest link*.

It doesn't mean you had to run a early KBL 5.2GHz SL bin at 0AVX offsets for the daily driver if you bought processor, it's left as a user decision.

But with a -offset kept within the test methodology its a low bar to set (business reasons) on each bin category


----------



## AsusFan30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Four minutes?
> I watched everything sell out in less than one.
> Interesting.


I was watching my clock. I put it in my cart at 10:01, by the time I checked out, and refreshed at 10:05, everything was gone.


----------



## cx-ray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> I'm sorry but what's the whole AVX offset again in lamest terms? Doing a bit of Googling isn't helping. For example, the SL 7900X 4.8GHZ has a -3AVX offset and -5AVX512 offset to guarantee stability. I'm purely a gamer only so that does mean it's really only running at 4.5Ghz or 4.3Ghz and not 4.8Ghz?


Handbrake a video transcode/compression application uses AVX for instance. With an offset, individual CPU core clocks will go up and down as they work on AVX related tasks. By no means does the whole CPU down clock. Just the cores that are performing AVX tasks at a given time. Compared to a stock CPU the offsets given by SL are pretty mild. Depending on the circumstances (heat, current draw, etc) a stock CPU may clock all the way down to its base frequency.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> this is not reassuring as a customer.
> So how long is the testing? Before it was 1 hour. I always added an extra .02v and ran fine with 24 hours of real bench and other tests but not stating how you test always comes off as shady to me. I always assume and expect the worse...I see no reason for not telling your customers how you test them. Not saying is shady and doesnt show very much confidence in your testing procedure and seems like your trying to hide weak testing. If it was solid testing why would you not trumpet it around....


He may have found "tricks" to trip up certain errors that save hours of stress testing. All businesses work with time constraints. This would qualify as propriety information that gives SL a competitive advantage. Not something that one would give away for free or advertise.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cx-ray*
> 
> Handbrake a video transcode/compression application uses AVX for instance. With an offset, individual CPU core clocks will go up and down as they work on AVX related tasks. By no means does the whole CPU down clock. Just the cores that are performing AVX tasks at a given time. Compared to a stock CPU the offsets given by SL are pretty mild. Depending on the circumstances (heat, current draw, etc) a stock CPU may clock all the way down to its base frequency.
> He may have found "tricks" to trip up certain errors that save hours of stress testing. All businesses work with time constraints. This would qualify as propriety information that gives SL a competitive advantage. Not something that one would give away for free or advertise.


what you said is 100% speculation and is of 0 reassurance to stability.


----------



## mouacyk

Everything is sold out. Amazing.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> Everything is sold out. Amazing.


It really is. And they sold out in probably less than 5 minutes. I hate to say it, because the prices were pretty nuts, but they probably didn't price high enough for business sake.

I'm ready for a steady supply of CPUs and the big spenders to get saturated so prices come back to earth a little bit. Hopefully that doesn't take 6 months.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Look up what fast boot with Windows 10 does in regards to drivers, it does not reload the drivers from scratch! BSOD as a result of a graphics driver not loading properly for example, disabled fast boot 6 months ago haven't had a BSOD since,yet still same workloads.


Have you tried to change voltage and frequency of your graphic card, shut down PC, fast boot, and then look at voltage and frequency? It's interesting. (or at least it was on my GPU when I forced it to P2 mode before I played with voltages and frequencies.)

One of reasons why I have semi opened case is to see what boot code is on my RANGER VII.
30 - woke from sleep mode, probably unstable.
40 - fast boot, might be unstable.
A0 (or is it AA) - hard boot with proper initialization, safe to do whatever crazy stuff I want.

(BTW large W10 update can reset your boot settings.)


----------



## NaplesWebTech

Someone said something about putting one in their cart at 7:01 and then attempting to check out at 7:05 ???



I was checked out and gone at 7:01


----------



## Psychocipher

Well they certainly dont delid and frequency test for free lol the delids are $40 plus frequency testing is an extra 20. Also add in shipping cause they are not newegg who gets huge discounts on shipping and cant give free shipping. That $450 is pretty reasonable, as liquid metal isnt exactly cheap $15 for a gram syringe.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Have you tried to change voltage and frequency of your graphic card, shut down PC, fast boot, and then look at voltage and frequency? It's interesting. (or at least it was on my GPU when I forced it to P2 mode before I played with voltages and frequencies.)
> 
> One of reasons why I have semi opened case is to see what boot code is on my RANGER VII.
> 30 - woke from sleep mode, probably unstable.
> 40 - fast boot, might be unstable.
> A0 (or is it AA) - hard boot with proper initialization, safe to do whatever crazy stuff I want.
> 
> (BTW large W10 update can reset your boot settings.)


Did not change anything graphics card related,left all CPU overclocking settings in UEFI exactly where they were, all I did is disable fast boot in the UEFI and within Windows and haven't had a BSOD ever since, that was six months ago


----------



## AlphaC

Spoiler: semi-offtopic



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> That means for every 100 sold...
> 6 were binned at 5.3 GHz and sold for $1000 each, or $6000 total.
> 24 were binned at 5.2 GHz and sold for $660 each, or $15,840 total.
> 28 were binned at 5.1 GHz and sold for $540 each, or $15,120 total.
> 23 were binned at 5.0 GHz and sold for $480 each, or $11,040 total.
> 19 were binned at 4.9 GHz and sold for $450 each, or $8,550 total.
> 
> Each set of 100 8700K CPUs sold for a grand total of $56,550.
> 
> If they were purchased for $420 each (market value), that's a total of $42,000, and a gross profit of $14,550 or 35%.
> If they were purchased for $360 each (MSRP), that's a total of $36,000, and a gross profit of $20,550 or 57%.
> The actual gross profit is likely some where in between these two numbers.
> 
> That seems very reasonable considering operating costs like hardware, salaries, security, and interest on the loans needed to stock hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of CPUs.
> 
> Can't wait for the 5.0 GHz to be back in-stock. I hope I get one of the next batch.


It's a good thing you specified that it is gross profits.

They pay (or should pay) corporate or personal income tax and/or personal capital gains tax. If it's the only source of income, social security tax + medicare. They likely need to pay paypal and payment processors. All the returns/lost in mail/faulty or damaged chips that can't be RMA-ed due to delid/customers doing monkey business with credit cards also eat into that , on top of electricity + equipment + manhours used to stress test all those CPUs.

As much as people would have you believe that Silicon Lottery is out to get all your money, they are really not... there's a price premium that is high for the top bins (At $1000 I'd rather buy an 8 or 10 core), but for a mid-bin such as 5.1 Ghz or 5.0Ghz it is reasonable given the state of the market.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: semi-offtopic
> 
> 
> 
> It's a good thing you specified that it is gross profits.
> 
> They pay (or should pay) corporate or personal income tax and/or personal capital gains tax. If it's the only source of income, social security tax + medicare. They likely need to pay paypal and payment processors. All the returns/lost in mail/faulty or damaged chips that can't be RMA-ed due to delid/customers doing monkey business with credit cards also eat into that , on top of electricity + equipment + manhours used to stress test all those CPUs.
> 
> As much as people would have you believe that Silicon Lottery is out to get all your money, they are really not... there's a price premium that is high for the top bins (At $1000 I'd rather buy an 8 or 10 core), but for a mid-bin such as 5.1 Ghz or 5.0Ghz it is reasonable given the state of the market.


Medicare? You sir sound like an Aussie.


----------



## AsusFan30

I was wrong?I was gone at 7:02?


----------



## VRoman

AlphaC, without knowing all the details, I can guess that after you pay all taxes, labor and other expenses you probably were left with about $4000 from the 8700s, that is $40 per each CPU, Which is reasonable considering the demand. 10% profit on 400-dollar CPU. The lowest bin is practically done for free and the highest bin pays for all the unlucky delids to find the good chip.


----------



## DarthFK

You know guys what is "reasonable" - let me put the light on that spot : I can walk right now(!!!) to a store 30min from me, pay $419.99+tax for 8700k, buy a delid tool for $44, plus pay $13-14 for whatever liquid metal and some $5-7 for the right silicon glue and do it myself. I'm just not gonna do that, though I can. And that'll maybe change when Black Friday comes. Maybe. Dunno. Does that sound reasonable?


----------



## DarthFK

P.P.S Oh, and since today I am in my best sith mood - I can also buy a tray 8700k for less and without tax and do the delid etc. Since the initial price on SL was under $360 (where the price should be, under MSRP, taking into account batch/bulk purchases from Intel are even cheaper - market rules) and now the price is $4xx-$999 - yeah, this is "demand driven" (aka greed). Whatever. If ppl just must have it now - knock yourselves out


----------



## thebski

I don't fault SL in any way for the prices. These are still CPUs that can't be reliably purchased from a standard retailer at any given time. Also, SL is in the business of selling CPU's, and that's it. That means that they have once or twice a year when new product lines are launched to really capitalize on hype and really strong demand. They kind of have to get it when they can, so to speak.


----------



## redcloud0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthFK*
> 
> You know guys what is "reasonable" - let me put the light on that spot : I can walk right now(!!!) to a store 30min from me, pay $419.99+tax for 8700k, buy a delid tool for $44, plus pay $13-14 for whatever liquid metal and some $5-7 for the right silicon glue and do it myself. I'm just not gonna do that, though I can. And that'll maybe change when Black Friday comes. Maybe. Dunno. Does that sound reasonable?


so you're paying $419.99 + tax + $44 + $13 + $7...let's call it $520 total for roll at the silicon lottery - of which you only have a 58% chance of matching 5.1ghz, which costs $540 from SL...in order to beat their prices, you would have to win a 30% chance to get a 5.2ghz+ which SL sells for $659.99.

which means you have a 70% chance of having just wasted a ton of money and effort, and a 30% chance of having saved a whopping $150 on a build that probably runs you $2k+ since you're using a delidded overclocked 8700k - and that's assuming you can even find a 8700k just lying around in stock like you claim you can, because I can assure you no stores near me have any left in stock right now

I think I'll go ahead and buy one from SL instead, thank you very much


----------



## DarthFK

Fair enough Let them have it. And let those willing pay
Intel (rushing their "anti-Ryzen" and AMD themselves with their Vega) still manages to raise some question marks in a way. Not that low supply would be unusual in business, and that others wouldn't capitalize on it, but it is interesting how they manage to... mismanage it in a known business environment and known expectations. Well, with all the technicalities of 14nm production, expected demand, etc. With all their newer and newer launches they seem to rush and the whole lack of stock is... conducive to conspiracy theories on corporate approaches. God forbid, I am a pro business guy, but the feeling (feel the dark side Luke


----------



## DarthFK

redcloud0, check the current OC results from others not only calculations of SL. And, in the first place, with these prices, as I said, I wouldn't do it anyway, but I think it is doable, risks included! If you don't want to risk it and wait, that's ok, it's up to you. And one wouldn't want to beat SL, just match it and have the CPU now, while everyone waits - isn't that enough, if one's lucky. It's a draw, a silicon lottery







Or wait and overpay, maybe, maybe not overpay, but wait.
As for stock - yes, I just allowed myself to continue upholding my inexcusable claim in front of the heaven, earth, word judges and internet that there are FOUR 8700k in stock near me And? Are you curious where, but too shy?







And if I want to wait for an online retailer, I can have it in about a two weeks for under 390 without stock. And?
I am pretty sure that even with such a serious investment as you calculated, or even with a lower one in about two weeks ($390+44+13+7=$454) luck has it one could invest in a 4.9-5.2Ghz low temperature(!) oc'd CPU, which, again, I am not going to do until prices are down, at SL too That's kind of reasonable, I think, for me and I think... I am entitled to that opinion


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> AVX linpack @5.2Ghz for 10 minutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only 10 minutes but less stressful than OCCT large.
> 
> Silicon lottery mentioned in the past that they use AVX offset to get more CPU's to pass their top bin of 5.2Ghz at the time. I purchased mine prior to them changing their testing proceedures


Linpacks released since ~2013 use AVX2 to run far faster & hotter, your program may be using an old version with only avx1


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Linpacks released since ~2013 use AVX2 to run far faster & hotter, your program may be using an old version with only avx1


Yeah you might be right, to be honest I dont know much about Linpack, just used screen shot to show that I can run AVX when someone doubted that I could







. That version of OCCT in screen shot is the latest version as far as I know and was released earlier this year, so it may be AVX2?


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Yeah you might be right, to be honest I dont know much about Linpack, just used screen shot to show that I can run AVX when someone doubted that I could
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That version of OCCT in screen shot is the latest version as far as I know and was released earlier this year, so it may be AVX2?


For linpack, LinX is the most popular program. Just run the maximum problem size, you can find it here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?201670-LinX-A-simple-Linpack-interface/page37&s=8fc3acdff68ce4a611979ecf8de64f54

Also Prime 95's small FFT runs, and you can find that program here: https://www.mersenne.org/download/

Firestarter is also a good program to stress AVX, information on it is here: https://tu-dresden.de/zih/forschung/projekte/firestarter

Those are some programs that complete utilize the 256 bit AVX in modern Intel processors.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> For linpack, LinX is the most popular program. Just run the maximum problem size, you can find it here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?201670-LinX-A-simple-Linpack-interface/page37&s=8fc3acdff68ce4a611979ecf8de64f54
> 
> Also Prime 95's small FFT runs, and you can find that program here: https://www.mersenne.org/download/
> 
> Firestarter is also a good program to stress AVX, information on it is here: https://tu-dresden.de/zih/forschung/projekte/firestarter
> 
> Those are some programs that complete utilize the 256 bit AVX in modern Intel processors.


Ok good to know







since you seem to know a bit about this would I be correct in saying that OCCT stress test is Prime95 with a different interface?


----------



## Seijitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Ok good to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since you seem to know a bit about this would I be correct in saying that OCCT stress test is Prime95 with a different interface?


No, it's not comparable to the latest version of prime95. Everything OCCT offers is not utilizing modern processors to their fullest extent. Some might say that would be a good thing though, because it could be considered a more "realistic" stress testing program.

As programs are better tuned for AVX support (seeing how Intel is throwing AVX512 in cannonlake, AVX support is probably going to be pushed hard for the foreseeable future), it may get the the point where common encoding software is more stressful than anything OCCT has to offer. In fact, the X265 encoders might already be more stressful.

If you want to get as close to "stable" as you can, you should find the most stressful software that exists and tune your system around that. If a system is just for gaming, I don't see anything wrong with ignoring these programs either as long as it's not affecting what you do. If you're never going to run stressful programs on the system, tuning your system around them could cause a little performance to be lost compared to the easier stress tests out there.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seijitsu*
> 
> No, it's not comparable to the latest version of prime95. Everything OCCT offers is not utilizing modern processors to their fullest extent. Some might say that would be a good thing though, because it could be considered a more "realistic" stress testing program.
> 
> As programs are better tuned for AVX support (seeing how Intel is throwing AVX512 in cannonlake, AVX support is probably going to be pushed hard for the foreseeable future), it may get the the point where common encoding software is more stressful than anything OCCT has to offer. In fact, the X265 encoders might already be more stressful.
> 
> If you want to get as close to "stable" as you can, you should find the most stressful software that exists and tune your system around that. If a system is just for gaming, I don't see anything wrong with ignoring these programs either as long as it's not affecting what you do. If you're never going to run stressful programs on the system, tuning your system around them could cause a little performance to be lost compared to the easier stress tests out there.


As has been mentioned many times in the past stability is a subjective thing, personally Im not interested in running Prime95 for 24 hours at time to prove its fully stable, to me doing that sort of thing constantly is going to degrade your CPU to a greater extent than really necessary. For most people 1 hour of OCCT stress test or 8 hours of Realbench is sufficient to prove stability but I think we can all agree that XTU and AIDA64 just are not stressful enough







Having said that OCCT with each version seems to be getting more and more stressful so it would be interesting to know how exactly that is achieved







Anyway thanks for your input,greatly appreciated


----------



## Silicon Lottery

We will have another small round up, probably around tomorrow evening. Once we determine it, we'll post the time they'll be going up here.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Actually. Silicon Lottery offers a warranty of a year through their own pockets on a delid. Just in-case anything happens. They also bin the chips. Honestly at $34.99 for a delid it costs less than buying a Rockit88. After the delid the price scales according to the frequency that the chip can hit. Essentially adding newer SKUs to Intel's market. If you're old enough you'll recall when different models were just at different frequencies instead of having different core counts. Silicon Lottery is buying in bulk and running tests, essentially bringing back the higher frequency SKU's for intel. I see no problem with the pricing. Some enthusiasts would have to go through 30 8700k's to get a 5.3Ghz one, and would do just that. Or instead of that hassle they can buy it from SL.


----------



## Psychocipher

Oh please I can deff do a delid so crawl off your high horse. Id rather not spend all the time to buy the $40 delid kit, $15 liquid metal, $8 liquid tape, the sealant and pay the shipping and tax for all those. Then wait for everything to get here and do the delid, when I could just spend the $60 plus shipping to have silicon lottery delid my $600 7820x which they are as we speak and while thats being done focuse on completing my custom loop and have everything done before it gets back to me. Im sure they will do a better job than me as they have been doing delids for years and done thousands of them.They also guarantee a successful delid and will replace it if its damaged. If i were to do that myself and it gets damaged theres $600 down the drain. Your probably a noob whos only delidded an old sandy bridge cpu thats not worth much.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psychocipher*
> 
> Oh please I can deff do a delid so crawl off your high horse. Id rather not spend all the time to buy the $40 delid kit, $15 liquid metal, $8 liquid tape, the sealant and pay the shipping and tax for all those. Then wait for everything to get here and do the delid, when I could just spend the $60 plus shipping to have silicon lottery delid my $600 7820x which they are as we speak and while thats being done focuse on completing my custom loop and have everything done before it gets back to me. Im sure they will do a better job than me as they have been doing delids for years and done thousands of them.They also guarantee a successful delid and will replace it if its damaged. If i were to do that myself and it gets damaged theres $600 down the drain. Your probably a noob whos only delidded an old sandy bridge cpu thats not worth much.


You can't delid Sandy Bridge. Its soldered...........


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> You can't delid Sandy Bridge. Its soldered...........


I know it's soldered lol I was seeing if hed catch that


----------



## DarthFK

Ah, no, I am in between buying from them or dyi totally myself, for fun too. All depending on price. Lazy vs fun. A dillema


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psychocipher*
> 
> I know it's soldered lol I was seeing if hed catch that


Sure.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Sure.


Ok i really dont care if you believe me or not


----------



## Silicon Lottery

The next round will be going up at 5PM CST today. It is going to be a much smaller batch than the previous.

The current ETA we have been given for the next large shipment coming in is on the 19th.


----------



## markm75

Side question.. for the 8700k at say 5.0-5.2 ghz.. i'm assuming my water cooler the Thermaltake ring 360mm should still suffice.. i use it now and my max temp with a SL 6700k at 4.7 is around 68C.

The other question is regarding overclocking 3200 mhz ram.. is it still best to use 2 sticks instead of 4 (on my 6700 i have 4, was going to re-use them), however i'd like to try for higher clocks, is 4000 even attainable at a 5+ ghz clock speed, or does it need one of the "better" asus or other brand boards, or does the board model even matter?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Side question.. for the 8700k at say 5.0-5.2 ghz.. i'm assuming my water cooler the Thermaltake ring 360mm should still suffice.. i use it now and my max temp with a SL 6700k at 4.7 is around 68C.
> 
> The other question is regarding overclocking 3200 mhz ram.. is it still best to use 2 sticks instead of 4 (on my 6700 i have 4, was going to re-use them), however i'd like to try for higher clocks, is 4000 even attainable at a 5+ ghz clock speed, or does it need one of the "better" asus or other brand boards, or does the board model even matter?


Yes, 360mm of rad space is more than enough.

2 sticks are always easier to overclock rather than 4. 4000MHz is pretty easy to attain on Coffee Lake if your memory sticks are up to the task. Motherboard choice does matter when shooting for high memory frequencies. Make sure the motherboard you choose is rated for at least whatever memory frequency you're aiming for.


----------



## markm75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Yes, 360mm of rad space is more than enough.
> 
> 2 sticks are always easier to overclock rather than 4. 4000MHz is pretty easy to attain on Coffee Lake if your memory sticks are up to the task. Motherboard choice does matter when shooting for high memory frequencies. Make sure the motherboard you choose is rated for at least whatever memory frequency you're aiming for.


Ok, thats what i thought in general at least.. not sure if my gskill 3200's (4 of them) will work out but i guess i can try









I was leaning towards the Asrock Fatal1ty k6 due to having a lot of sata (8) and lots of USB..
but i think somewhere else it was mentioned that maybe the asus maximus x apex or asrock oc formula would be better suited for 4000, not sure why though, since the Asrock K6 is rated at 4000.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Side question.. for the 8700k at say 5.0-5.2 ghz.. i'm assuming my water cooler the Thermaltake ring 360mm should still suffice.. i use it now and my max temp with a SL 6700k at 4.7 is around 68C.
> 
> The other question is regarding overclocking 3200 mhz ram.. is it still best to use 2 sticks instead of 4 (on my 6700 i have 4, was going to re-use them), however i'd like to try for higher clocks, is 4000 even attainable at a 5+ ghz clock speed, or does it need one of the "better" asus or other brand boards, or does the board model even matter?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> 240mm rads can easily cool 220w plus TDP the problem is weak pumps in AIOs and heat density on the die...meaning water chiller/phase is needed.
> 
> https://hardforum.com/threads/review-corsair-100i-gtx-with-1650v3-220w-tdp-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/
> 
> note the heat in and heat out on radiator.


see that review for some good details on what a stock AIO water can do and its limitations.


----------



## lukeg310

I almost had one but my credit card was off by 1 digit. There is another bath coming soon right?


----------



## FlamingKomodo

To think I would be doing practice runs to buy a CPU... Got what I wanted so my coffee lake build can finally commence though.


----------



## frieD195

Thank goodness for Google Chrome Autofill! Aside from my card number and all that info, I was able to checkout in a little less than 30 seconds. I didn't care about how quick or slow the default shipping options were. The most important part of my build has been achieved! The other stuff like RAM (G.Skill TridentZ RGB ram 2x16Gb 3200MHz CL14), the primary hard drive (Samsung 960 Evo 1TB), AIO Cooler (Arctic Liquid Freezer 360) can wait until my wallet recovers.


----------



## wingman99

As of 11/14/17, the top 97% of tested 8600Ks were able to hit 4.9GHz or greater.

See the 8600k does not bin as well at 4.9GHz as the i7 8700k.


----------



## frieD195

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lukeg310*
> 
> I almost had one but my credit card was off by 1 digit. There is another bath coming soon right?


I think one of the customer service reps I was communicating with said they have several hundred more on order and that the next batch should be ready toward the end of the month.


----------



## Hero101

Yeah pretty frustrating to miss out again and having to wait hoping you can get in on the next batch but never knowing if you can get one or not.


----------



## Timuka3T

Need to pick out an case now.


----------



## fixall

I’ve owned dozens of cases and the Phantek Evolv is BY FAR my favorite....


----------



## Timuka3T

how is cooling for this case?


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> I've owned dozens of cases and the Phantek Evolv is BY FAR my favorite....


+1 to that Evolve is an excellent case, lack of airflow is really overstated, with a water cooled setup makes about 2 degrees C difference to CPU temps under load.


----------



## Timuka3T

Not doing an fully custom loop just an 280 AIO


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> how is cooling for this case?


It probably wouldn't have been my first choice if I was running a fully air cooled setup as most of the dust filters are covered which does restrict airflow somewhat. I'm running my CPU and GPU under water though, and my temps are the same as when I was running a Corsair 650d. It's much quieter than the 650d however, and MUCH easier to work with.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> Not doing an fully custom loop just an 280 AIO


Honestly it wont be an issue.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> Need to pick out an case now.


thermaltake core x5







...assuming you got the space lol


----------



## DarthFK

There is a good article on cases on Gamer Nexus, which is one of the few websites that does case temperature tests. I would look at one of the latest reviews for cases tocompare thermals vs noise vs price, I guess. Meshify is cool, but noisy, if I remember right, etc. NZT is expensive. They had abuild for a community member in a big, but well ventilated Silverstone. I was considering Phanteks Enthoo Pro M (SE), but had an eye at Aerocool Project 7 (00). Have a look here at GN overview, if you have time:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2922-best-pc-cases-under-100-dollars-2017-edition


----------



## Bothand Nether

Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Silent ATX Mid Tower Computer Case is a fantastic case for about 100.00.

Building the Missus a new Protools rig with one of those cases, great design imo.

It scored several awards and more than a few youtube tech reviewers gave it praise, super quiet with sound insulation & high airflow.

Not sure where they are made exactly, but "Scandinavian design and quality. Designed and engineered in Sweden." is in their tagline.

The great thing about Youtube is you can watch reviews that give you an idea how cable management/build quality/etc will play out.

I use a Mountain Mods UFO U2 horizon case because it's a fully modular 18" x 18" cube that fits in my ISO box (& is made here in California).


----------



## Timuka3T

Ya i have been watching his videos and about 5 others and he just did an reward show for 2017. Thought about getting the M with https://www.demcifilter.com/phanteks-ethnoo-pro-m-filter-kit-2

Light Blue Cable Mode AIO Sleeve with Light Blue and White Custom Cables?


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Silent ATX Mid Tower Computer Case is a fantastic case for about 100.00.


Fractal Design is my "go to" case when building computers with a case budget of $100 or less. They really do make a great product for the price. They remind me of Antec in their heyday, when they were leaps and bounds ahead of their competitors in the sub $100 case market.

Now to get back on topic....

SiliconLottery, have you found the overclocking statistics from your new batches of 8700Ks to be roughly the same as the previous shipments??


----------



## VeritronX

Should I be worried about missing out on a delidded i5 if I have to wait another 2-3 weeks to buy one?


----------



## TGHaworth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> Should I be worried about missing out on a delidded i5 if I have to wait another 2-3 weeks to buy one?


There are a few sitting in stock right now, I'd wager in 2-3 weeks the supply will be reliable for 8600k's.


----------



## FlamingKomodo

When does yesterday's batch ship out?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlamingKomodo*
> 
> When does yesterday's batch ship out?


Today


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TGHaworth*
> 
> There are a few sitting in stock right now, I'd wager in 2-3 weeks the supply will be reliable for 8600k's.


Was thinking more along the lines of "are there plans to keep buying i5's" because the ryzen 1700's etc and older i5's were not restocked after a bit.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> Should I be worried about missing out on a delidded i5 if I have to wait another 2-3 weeks to buy one?


We'll be carrying them for at least the next several months, no need to worry.


----------



## frieD195

Is there anything aside from the processor itself that is shipped with the purchase of a processor from SL? Like testing documentation and recommended OC settings (even though they're already listed on the website).

And on a side note, how likely will it be to OC a '5.2 GHz guaranteed 8700k' to 5.3 or even 5.4GHz? I'll be using a 360mm AIO from Arctic with 6 high-static-pressure fans at 74CFM in a push-pull config with some Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut on the outside of the IHS.


----------



## sifuzz

I'm here because I think i got the worst 8700k in existence.
cooling is EK Predator 360 looped with my 1080.

delidded, i believe i did a perfect job, took great care and precision

1.0v = 3.7g = 41c max
1.35v = 4.2g = 75c-80c
1.39v = 4.9g = 95-100c, throttles for a cinebench of 788

i'll do more testing before a pull the plug on getting a nice binned 8700k


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sifuzz*
> 
> I'm here because I think i got the worst 8700k in existence.
> cooling is EK Predator 360 looped with my 1080.
> 
> delidded, i believe i did a perfect job, took great care and precision
> 
> 1.0v = 3.7g = 41c max
> 1.35v = 4.2g = 75c-80c
> 1.39v = 4.9g = 95-100c, throttles for a cinebench of 788
> 
> i'll do more testing before a pull the plug on getting a nice binned 8700k


75c - 80c at 4.2Ghz leads me to believe that either your de-lid or your lid to water block thermal paste application went awry.


----------



## Barefooter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sifuzz*
> 
> I'm here because I think i got the worst 8700k in existence.
> cooling is EK Predator 360 looped with my 1080.
> 
> delidded, i believe i did a perfect job, took great care and precision
> 
> 1.0v = 3.7g = 41c max
> 1.35v = 4.2g = 75c-80c
> 1.39v = 4.9g = 95-100c, throttles for a cinebench of 788
> 
> i'll do more testing before a pull the plug on getting a nice binned 8700k


You joined OCN over four years ago... and just now made your first post?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> 75c - 80c at 4.2Ghz leads me to believe that either your de-lid or your lid to water block thermal paste application went awry.


I'd have to agree with this. Did you paint the underside of the lid with TIM before you put it back on? If not do that and reapply your TIM.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sifuzz*
> 
> I'm here because I think i got the worst 8700k in existence.
> cooling is EK Predator 360 looped with my 1080.
> 
> delidded, i believe i did a perfect job, took great care and precision
> 
> 1.0v = 3.7g = 41c max
> 1.35v = 4.2g = 75c-80c
> 1.39v = 4.9g = 95-100c, throttles for a cinebench of 788
> 
> i'll do more testing before a pull the plug on getting a nice binned 8700k
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> 75c - 80c at 4.2Ghz leads me to believe that either your de-lid or your lid to water block thermal paste application went awry.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I am inclined to agree with fixall here. 1.35v at 4.2ghz yielding temperatures of 75-80c is really out of whack compared to every single CPU I've used.

I don't know how valuable the comparison is, but I'll share my data.

I'm currently running a 6700k with 1.35v @ 4.5ghz -- definitely not anything impressive -- but I'm running the H110i "V2" AIO (140mm x2) and most activity on the CPU doesn't generate temperatures that reach 60c. Rarely, a single core might spike to about 61-65c, but those are uncommon and almost always isolated. *Here's the kicker -- my 6700k isn't delidded.*

My LLC is somewhat aggressively set at 7 instead of 5 so under some degree of load the CPU will jump to 1.36v.

Just to further test for the purposes of this post, I went ahead and ran the AIDA64 stress test for about 1 minute just to glance at some semi-unrealistic temperatures -- highest spike was 68c. I had the boxes for CPU/Cache/Memory checked (no FPU)

Anyway, those temps are just really high for an AIO. Hope you get your temps normalized soon!


----------



## hozer

Whens the next batch come available?


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> The current ETA we have been given for the next large shipment coming in is on the 19th.


SL said they expect a shipment on the 19th, but that's a Sunday, so it might actually arrive on the 20th. Then they have to delid and test.

The website also says, "*We will be out of office November 23rd-26th. Orders placed during this time will ship on the 27th.*"

So, will they get the shipment from the 19th posted before the 23rd? Maybe, but then you still have to wait until the 27th for it to ship.


----------



## UtopiA

Picked up a vanilla 8700K from Newegg for $345 as part of a mobo combo, so I'm out of the running. :/

I'll be back for the 8C next year.


----------



## DarthFK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Picked up a vanilla 8700K from Newegg for $345 as part of a mobo combo, so I'm out of the running. :/
> 
> I'll be back for the 8C next year.


You can always use SL service of delid - 40$ (plus postage ~$20?). To be honest, I think the prices for their delid on your own CPU plus your shipping are okish, compated to their current CPU+Delid+Binning prices (market...) in my opinion. Or dyi


----------



## scott31337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barefooter*
> 
> You joined OCN over four years ago... and just now made your first post?
> I'd have to agree with this. Did you paint the underside of the lid with TIM before you put it back on? If not do that and reapply your TIM.


I joined around seven years ago and this will be my third post, so what?









I figured out my issues with my MB/power supply/proc - after swapping parts multiple times, I'm up and running! Thanks again SL!









Still trying to master the settings on this ASRock Board - 4.9ghz turbo works great - but manually setting 5.1Ghz, -2 offset and voltage, Windows will not boot. Maybe I'll make a thread.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scott31337*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Barefooter*
> 
> You joined OCN over four years ago... and just now made your first post?
> I'd have to agree with this. Did you paint the underside of the lid with TIM before you put it back on? If not do that and reapply your TIM.
> 
> 
> 
> I joined around seven years ago and this will be my third post, so what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figured out my issues with my MB/power supply/proc - after swapping parts multiple times, I'm up and running! Thanks again SL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still trying to master the settings on this ASRock Board - 4.9ghz turbo works great - but manually setting 5.1Ghz, -2 offset and voltage, Windows will not boot. Maybe I'll make a thread.
Click to expand...

I hope your 5th post is enjoyable.


----------



## fixall

5Ghz 8700K purchased! I am insanely excited to get started on this new build ($4000 later... My fiance may kill me). I'll post my voltage and temps in the post sales sub-forum as soon as I receive and test the CPU.







I don't care to go over 5Ghz, but I sure hope the voltage is able to be set at a reasonable level.

I would suggest keeping and eye on the SiliconLottery page as the 8700K I purchased just popped up out of the blue when I was on my lunch break. I see they have 5.1Ghz and faster 8600Ks in stock at the moment.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sifuzz*
> 
> I'm here because I think i got the worst 8700k in existence.
> cooling is EK Predator 360 looped with my 1080.
> 
> delidded, i believe i did a perfect job, took great care and precision
> 
> 1.0v = 3.7g = 41c max
> 1.35v = 4.2g = 75c-80c
> 1.39v = 4.9g = 95-100c, throttles for a cinebench of 788
> 
> i'll do more testing before a pull the plug on getting a nice binned 8700k


You should post it in this
http://www.overclock.net/t/1639998/i7-8700k-overclock-results-and-settings
or this
http://www.overclock.net/t/1634577/various-6-core-coffee-lake-lineup-i7-8700k-i5-8600k-official-reviews-benchmarks-update-19/5890
thread.

Well, it's 6-core so you shouldn't expect low temperatures. But I think, you probably have wrong delid, are you sure what you put between die and CPU has proper contact? And more importantly why do you have such high voltage on 4.2 Ghz?


----------



## foxlite

Couldn't wait so grabbed one on Newegg and delidded myself. Stable at 5.2 max temps on my first 7 hour stress were great


----------



## DarthFK

Which delid tool did you use?
Care to share the settings to know how you binned it?


----------



## foxlite

I didn’t bin the chip, that involves purchasing multiple chips and testing speeds for the best overclock before the delid I believe, but I can share the tool info and pics of the process and my settings on the Asus Maximus Hero X. On my cell will upload when I’m home


----------



## DarthFK

Yeah, I should've placed binning between quotes as "binning" for one CPU


----------



## foxlite

So these pics are from my current configuration in my bios as well as some pics form my delid process. I still have the board on a test bench so keep in mind these settings are going to be tweaked more once its in the rig. Rebuild is happening this evening. I also recorded the delid process but haven't had the time to edit any of the vid yet. Also included test pics that just recently finished, 5 hour pass on AIDA64 at current settings.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


















-Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (liquid metal)
-Permatex 82180 Ultra Black, used for reseal of IHS
-ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC)
-Rockit 88 Delid & Relid for LGA 1150 & 1151 (Delid tool used)
-Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut for top of IHS, (current tests performed with stock thermal paste that came on the Corsair H115i, might have some more temp drops with kryo)

Updated some settings and tested stable at 5.2ghz a 1 AVX modifier at 1.425volts
will add more comprehensive bios pics when it installed int he rig today.


----------



## knotsonice

I've been on the forums for a while but have never posted. I just sent my 8700k to Silicon Lottery to be delid and tested. I have a Asus hero X (non-wifi) on the way 32gb 3200mhz ram and some other goodies. Going to water cool the cpu. Looking forward to getting this up and running.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knotsonice*
> 
> I've been on the forums for a while but have never posted. I just sent my 8700k to Silicon Lottery to be delid and tested. I have a Asus hero X (non-wifi) on the way 32gb 3200mhz ram and some other goodies. Going to water cool the cpu. Looking forward to getting this up and running.


What does Silicon Lottery do when they test your Processor?


----------



## Timuka3T

Anyone get this CPU besides me today?


----------



## Karpenfritz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> Anyone get this CPU besides me today?


I dont think they will go up for sale today. SL said earlier that the next big shipment will get in today. Then they need to bin and delid them. Me myself hope they will come up on the website fast. I still need the 8700k to finish up my build


----------



## Timuka3T

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karpenfritz*
> 
> I dont think they will go up for sale today. SL said earlier that the next big shipment will get in today. Then they need to bin and delid them. Me myself hope they will come up on the website fast. I still need the 8700k to finish up my build


I mean received their CPU from their orders


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timuka3T*
> 
> I mean received their CPU from their orders


Ordered mine Friday, so I'm hoping it gets shipped out Monday. Let us know your results!


----------



## DarthFK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> What does Silicon Lottery do when they test your Processor?


Delid or/and test for frequencies (up to how much you pay), really. And not my place to reply, but here is what details they provide:
https://siliconlottery.com/products/delid


----------



## royalkilla408

Any word when SL will have the next batch? I’m guessing they probably got their order in, but next would be waiting for their testing.


----------



## apw63

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Any word when SL will have the next batch? I'm guessing they probably got their order in, but next would be waiting for their testing.


I sent SL a email asking just this. Here is their response

We are currently unable to predict when we will have additional stock. Stay tuned here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1638821/coffee-lake-binning


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apw63*
> 
> I sent SL a email asking just this. Here is their response
> 
> We are currently unable to predict when we will have additional stock. Stay tuned here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1638821/coffee-lake-binning


Thanks, I went to that thread and found this guy that says they probably got their order in, but next would be waiting for their testing.


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> Thanks, I went to that thread and found this guy that says they probably got their order in, but next would be waiting for their testing.


That is this thread. That post is on the previous page. I think everyone was assuming they got the order in. I know I was. Based on the report from Silicon Lottery, I assume they didn't get it.

This is interesting
Quote:


> *Description of Change to the Customer:*
> 
> In order to ensure a continuous supply of the Intel® Core™ i5-8400 Processor, Intel® Core™ i5-8600K
> Processor, Intel® Core™ i7-8700 Processor, and Intel® Core™ i7-8700K Processor listed in the "Products
> Affected" Table below, Intel will be adding an additional manufacturing site for Assembly/Test. The new
> site is located in Chengdu, China. The new manufacturing site has been certified equivalent (form, fit,
> function, and reliability) for the affected products and technologies of this change.
> Due to this change, the "ASSEMBLED IN Country" on the Box Label will now include China.
> See label example below - This label is a representation for example purposes only. The actual label will
> reflect correct product data.


http://qdms.intel.com/dm/i.aspx/F61D1FF9-F66F-4BB0-B01E-914998EAFCDA/PCN115909-00.pdf

That sounds like we shouldn't be expecting large supplies anytime real soon.


----------



## royalkilla408

There is stock of the 8700k everywhere and the price is dropping a bit. Now it’s going for $414 in most places. I hope this means that SL might get a small drop in price and be available soon. I still think it’s worth paying a bit more for their work on the chips they sell.


----------



## AlphaC

@Silicon Lottery
A user on the z370 VRM thread noted you removed the Asrock Fatal1ty K6 and Extreme4 from your QVL.

Any explanation for that?


----------



## jabroni80

i hope intel put the savings from low wages in china to use better goddamn TIM!!


----------



## royalkilla408

Their back on sale. Just got one finally! Thanks SL!


----------



## fixall

CPU was supposed to be delivered today (paid for expedited shipping so I would receive it before I left to see family for Thanksgiving), but USPS missed their delivery date because they suck hairy, sweaty balls.

Disappointing, but oh well... I should have some temp/voltage results for ya guys sometime next week.


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Their back on sale. Just got one finally! Thanks SL!


I got one too. Thanks SL.


----------



## VeritronX

If anyone here has an i5 6 core from SL, could you share the reported power draw of it under load?


----------



## isamu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Their back on sale. Just got one finally! Thanks SL!


Back on sale where? The website still lists all 8700Ks as sold out.


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isamu*
> 
> Back on sale where? The website still lists all 8700Ks as sold out.


They had some for sale last night. They sold out fairly quickly. I was fortunate I just happened to check them around midnight.


----------



## isamu

Damn


----------



## isamu

Broke down and grabbed an 8600K @ 5.3Ghz instead. Need a CPU as soon as possible because my current one got fried today


----------



## Scotty99

550 for a i5, ouch.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> @Silicon Lottery
> A user on the z370 VRM thread noted you removed the Asrock Fatal1ty K6 and Extreme4 from your QVL.
> 
> Any explanation for that?


We have had reports of stability problems with these boards (Z370 Fatal1ty K6 and Z370 Extreme4) that we have not yet been able to replicate in house, so we took them off the list for now. I would love to hear feedback for all of you using these boards with one of our processors. It has been mentioned to me that there may be two variants of each board with different components, which might be related.

For everyone else on availability, we'll keep having some trickle down on the site over the next week or so. I expect this shortage will be over in about two weeks,, and then we'll be able to have consistent supply on the site.


----------



## whiteyfu

Dang, missed them again? I've been checkin the site pretty regularly too.


----------



## Karpenfritz

Where did he write that they would get up for sale last night?


----------



## UtopiA

edit: Nevermind, found it in another thread.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We have had reports of stability problems with these boards (Z370 Fatal1ty K6 and Z370 Extreme4) that we have not yet been able to replicate in house, so we took them off the list for now. I would love to hear feedback for all of you using these boards with one of our processors. It has been mentioned to me that there may be two variants of each board with different components, which might be related.


https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/lga-1151-mainboard-vrm-liste-1175784.html#z370
This says K6 has the same VRM as Taichi. And Extreme4 the same VRM as i7. Are there no problems with Taichi, or gaming i7?


----------



## VeritronX

I got my mate to order a 5.2Ghz i5 for me while they were $60 USD off, excited for it to arrive.


----------



## DarthFK

Hmmm. Whoever noticed that QVL issue - good job. Wasn't there any notification on SL site about it?
Anyway, here is the OC thread on Z370/z390 vrm where Br0da posted an initial report of two different VRMs for K6 and Extreme4:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1638955/z370-z390-vrm-discussion-thread

And here is the pic with vrm components, where one can see the brands used for VRMs, including k6 and x4 (and I was considering the k6...):
http://cdn.overclock.net/d/df/df50d7d4_z370lineup-WIP.png


----------



## Shalamay

Got my I7-8700K from SL installed and running. I bought a 5.0 chip, but set it at the 4.9 @ 1.387v specs they have on their web site. It is with a corsair h115i on an Asus ROG Apex board. Seems to be running stable, played a few games and no issues.

But, I have a few questions:

What monitoring software do you guys use to see voltage, temps, what ever else is needed to be watched?

Also, what is the safe voltage/temp for this CPU? What program should I use to test stability? It is a gmaing/web surffing rig.

Is the Asus Intel Extreme Tuning stress test any good? How about to Monitor?

Thank you SL.


----------



## AlphaC

Siliconlottery, I noticed you are out of stock on i7-8700k.

I noticed that Microcenter has restocked and is selling them for $380 so you might want to get a hold of whoever is supplying them

http://www.microcenter.com/product/486088/Core_i7-8700K_Coffee_Lake_37_GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor


----------



## Kunzopolis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shalamay*
> 
> But, I have a few questions:
> 
> What monitoring software do you guys use to see voltage, temps, what ever else is needed to be watched?


I like to use AIDA64 for voltage/temps, I click on "System Stability Test" which opens a nice pair of graphs that model temperature and usage of the CPU as a function of time.

Don't run the stability test while anything else is running, obviously, but the monitoring is really good.

Also there is a tab called "Sensor" and "Overclock" that both show relevant information, and quite a bit of it.

That said, I would be curious to see what others like to use for monitoring, maybe I could add another monitoring tool to my kit!


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Siliconlottery, I noticed you are out of stock on i7-8700k.
> 
> I noticed that Microcenter has restocked and is selling them for $380 so you might want to get a hold of whoever is supplying them
> 
> http://www.microcenter.com/product/486088/Core_i7-8700K_Coffee_Lake_37_GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor


This is par for the course for Microcenter. They are regularly $50 - $80 cheaper than every other retailer when it comes to CPUs. The stipulation is that you have to go to an actual brick and mortar store to get it (no online purchases). It's part of their strategy to get you in the door to buy other things (like a motherboard, RAM, and a PSU to go with that shiny new CPU). They don't typically make a profit on those CPU sales, so don't expect a small company like SiliconLottery to be able to do something similar.


----------



## DarthFK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shalamay*
> 
> Got my I7-8700K from SL installed and running. I bought a 5.0 chip, but set it at the 4.9 @ 1.387v specs they have on their web site. It is with a corsair h115i on an Asus ROG Apex board. Seems to be running stable, played a few games and no issues.
> 
> But, I have a few questions:
> 
> What monitoring software do you guys use to see voltage, temps, what ever else is needed to be watched?
> 
> Also, what is the safe voltage/temp for this CPU? What program should I use to test stability? It is a gmaing/web surffing rig.
> 
> Is the Asus Intel Extreme Tuning stress test any good? How about to Monitor?
> 
> Thank you SL.


Before you do anything read how overclocking works, sorry, but judging by your questions you need to do what we all did in our time - read first! And it's a MUST or you may burn or damage your CPU, for which we cannot and will not be held accountable. The point is - even if you have the SL settings, doing adjustments in OC-ing needs the understanding of what you're actually doing. It takes time, but it's like learning to drive a bike You'll get there.

1. CPU Monitoring software (voltage and/or temps)
Normally the OC forums have tons of overclocking guides, which also recommend all the necessary software. I use ones recommended in one of the forums and these seem to be more or less accepted elsewhere:
- CPU-Z (voltage)
- HWmonitor (voltages and temps)
(some people use RealTemp for temps)

2. CPU stress software:
- Prime95
(- some people use AIDA)
(some time ago I used OCCT)

3. GPU monitoring (if you want, but the stress tests ran here are CPU bound, though I have a slightly different approach, as it turns out GN too, but it's an overkill - see my PS below) - just use the HWmonitor it'll do both voltages and temps for CPU and GPU (and frequencies, and fan speeds for latter) or add GPU-Z for GPU exclusively.

4. OCing - remember the term Silicon Lottery? Not the name of the company you bought the CPU from? Well, first of all, you should have received your voltages from SL, as I suggested above. If, as you suggested, you want the GHz down, start with Rule 1: due to silicon lottery concept temps/cooling determine voltages first of all (but not only
Your CPU is delided, so your voltages should be different than undelided, in general. Only you know what you got from SL. Simply put, presumably(!) you can both lower the speed and try a small one step decrease of vcore (you really don't want to mess with one step being a misunderstood notion - read what one step means). Then run Prime95 with HWmonitor and CPU-Z monitoring and "recording" (saving logs) - stress and see what happens. If all is fine, lower vcore one more step, stress and see. Hopefully without a BSOD, after 1-2 hours of each stress test (on a non-C partition maybe?) you'll see if it's stable at your settings and temperatures are also ok! If temps exceed recommended, stop the test. Go to OC forum and ask - which should have been the short response to your Q anyway - consult the OC guides (see Tomshardware, Bity-tech and OC3D for orientation and learning only!!!).

P.S. no game will EVER stress your CPU that much as Prime95 does. So, the stress test is an overkill, but you have your peace of mind about your CPU after... Search the threads, maybe you can find a custom Prime95 with less stress.
P.P.S. I don't know if it makes sense, but you may talk to SL about it? Don't know for sure, just a thought.


----------



## DarthFK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> This is par for the course for Microcenter. They are regularly $50 - $80 cheaper than every other retailer when it comes to CPUs. The stipulation is that you have to go to an actual brick and mortar store to get it (no online purchases). It's part of their strategy to get you in the door to buy other things (like a motherboard, RAM, and a PSU to go with that shiny new CPU). They don't typically make a profit on those CPU sales, so don't expect a small company like SiliconLottery to be able to do something similar.


Fixall - there was a whole revolt here when I suggested people to check what a RCP is vs $600-900 8700k. Words flew, posts got deleted, not delided Silicon Lottery is doing a buck on that, if people want what SL offers, which is fine, but that's not and cannot be close to RCP, while MC actually also sold/sells those 8700k above RCP as well, even with $30 mobo rebate. Plus, there are other business considerations beyond entering the store to buy more. Just imo - off topic, sorry.


----------



## Shalamay

Thanks Kunzopolis and DarthFK, I appreciate it. So, I'm not completely new to OCing, just been out of the game for awhile and trying to relearn (so many options now) and teach my kids (they need to work up to the chiller or phase stuff I have in the garage and I need to figure out what I'm doing too).

I'll try the Asus board section, as I don't want to derail SL's thread and I think most of my questions are about how to set the board. I might call SL tomorrow too and see if they can give me some advice.

Thanks.


----------



## DarthFK

Shalamay, I understand now and actually relate to that, though garage is a luxury here My younger kid said he wants a house when he grows up to have all the freedoms his grand parents have. I hope he does. Go ahead with your boys, the'll enjoy the experiment - and speaking about more serious collong for a nicely delided and bined CPU and before "closing" this off-topic, do have a look at Toms at least:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-coffee-lake-i7-8700k-cpu,5252-12.html
And good luck!


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Some 8700Ks will be going up throughout the day tomorrow (Monday) as we get them tested.


----------



## acewinters

Well, I guess it's time to be an F5 warrior again waiting for some to show up.


----------



## acewinters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Some 8700Ks will be going up throughout the day tomorrow (Monday) as we get them tested.


I know you can't give us exacts, but do you have a ball park number of how many 8700k's we should expect to hit the store throughout the day? I missed the initial launch of them here because I fell asleep and this is really the last piece I need to finish my build.

In any case you guys are awesome and you have a definite customer eagerly awaiting a nice chip from you guys.


----------



## acewinters

Was able to snag one of the few that got listed around 11:30AM EST. Sooo excited to get my cpu, I'll definitely have to update you guys when I get it. Absolutely so excited


----------



## hozer

Woo finally got mine


----------



## whiteyfu

That's what I get for getting up and not checking SL site again.







Any chance any more will be listed today?


----------



## DarthFK

One is on sale right now. 3.26pm ET


----------



## Silicon Lottery

That's going to be all the 8700Ks for today, but we will have more going up starting around tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Did anyone in this thread happen to buy the ASUS Z370 ROG Maximus X Apex motherboard?

*I'm trying to figure out if this particular mobo has 12 power phases.*

I noticed that this motherboard was on the SL QVL but I struggled to find specifications for it anywhere. Seems relatively new..?

Should I just assume that all the motherboards on the *SL QVL* are *12-phase*? (maybe that's the point of the QVL, to encourage 12-phase for the best OC results?)


----------



## DarthFK

I don't have it, but as I already posted in this thread Br0da reported on most boards vrms, including the one you ask about, and PRESUMABLY this board is reported to have: 8x50A infeneon optimus interleaved
Search z370/z390 vrm thread or my post with links above.
Or see this pic from that thread
http://cdn.overclock.net/d/df/df50d7d4_z370lineup-WIP.png


----------



## Kunzopolis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthFK*
> 
> I don't have it, but as I already posted in this thread Br0da reported on most boards vrms, including the one you ask about, and PRESUMABLY this board is reported to have: 8x50A infeneon optimus interleaved
> Search z370/z390 vrm thread or my post with links above.
> Or see this pic from that thread
> http://cdn.overclock.net/d/df/df50d7d4_z370lineup-WIP.png


I just took a look at that image you linked -- Extremely helpful thank you.

The only slightly worrisome thing to me is that -- and maybe i am misinterpreting this -- *the APEX board spot on that image says "use with LN2"*.

uh, am I not supposed to just use a 240mm CPU cooler? did that just get omitted? *is there something about the VRM that needs special cooling treatment?
*
I'm definitely enjoying liquid coolers for my CPU but I'm not about to go maximum bonkers and mess with LN2 for a cooling solution.

either way thank you for the thread and image links









In case there is uncertainty about my question, here's a *clarifying image:* https://i.imgur.com/KHKS0va.png


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I just took a look at that image you linked -- Extremely helpful thank you.
> 
> The only slightly worrisome thing to me is that -- and maybe i am misinterpreting this -- *the APEX board spot on that image says "use with LN2"*.
> 
> uh, am I not supposed to just use a 240mm CPU cooler? did that just get omitted? *is there something about the VRM that needs special cooling treatment?
> *
> I'm definitely enjoying liquid coolers for my CPU but I'm not about to go maximum bonkers and mess with LN2 for a cooling solution.
> 
> either way thank you for the thread and image links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In case there is uncertainty about my question, here's a *clarifying image:* https://i.imgur.com/KHKS0va.png


Hey there! I have this board, it's perfectly acceptable to use with an aio/custom water loop. Even air cooler if you need a quick and dirty test. LN2 is if you're trying to set some record, this board is highly optimized to overclock your ram and cpu.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chibi*
> 
> Hey there! I have this board, it's perfectly acceptable to use with an aio/custom water loop. Even air cooler if you need a quick and dirty test. LN2 is if you're trying to set some record, this board is highly optimized to overclock your ram and cpu.


Yay! thank you
















I think this is the board I'm going to go with. I know the ASUS UEFI pretty well and hopefully I can put my knowledge to good use.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> Yay! thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is the board I'm going to go with. I know the ASUS UEFI pretty well and hopefully I can put my knowledge to good use.


Np, head over to the ASUS Z370 Support thread if you need help with anything. A lot of knowledgeable folk there to help









http://www.overclock.net/t/1640168/asus-z370-motherboard-series-official-support-thread/0_30


----------



## DarthFK

You can definitely use any of the boards from the QVL list on SL website. Apex, in my opinion is an... overkill. It is meant for extreme overclokers using LN2 and whatnot. It can take everything that is less, of course, so if you're using a 240mm and want a great quality board, Asrock Taichi or Asus Hero is by far(!!!) more than enough, but it's up to you Taichi is out of stock on Newegg for a reason... I'd rather buy a Taichi and put the difference into a 1080Ti or 1080ti-SLI (not sure), but again, it depends what you want to do with your PC. Otherwise - just plus 1 to chibi. And let's see what tomorrow brings, perhaps better prices?








EDIT: Oh, the Taichi is back in stock. Well, anyway...


----------



## whiteyfu

Good advice darth, as I've also been struggling to decide on a motherboard, at first I was looking at the taichi, but there have been issues with the vrms on them? Then the hero, and have been on the verge of buying an apex, but that's a big pill to swallow, as it's crazy expensive imho for a motherboard.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Yeah i was totally eyeballing the Taichi, it looks like pretty good bang for the buck but I strongly suspect that since I have never used the UEFI provided by ASRock, it will only slow me down quite a bit.


----------



## DarthFK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteyfu*
> 
> Good advice darth, as I've also been struggling to decide on a motherboard, at first I was looking at the taichi, but there have been issues with the vrms on them? Then the hero, and have been on the verge of buying an apex, but that's a big pill to swallow, as it's crazy expensive imho for a motherboard.


Thnx!
K6 and Extreme4 seemed to have had some (VRM?) issues - notice there are two versions of each with different vrms... So scroll somewhere above, a user asked and was confirmed that Silicon Lottery took those two off its QVL list. Taichi is still on the SL QVL list, it seems. Don't know about vrm issues with it. This would need to be reported with links (at least) if this is the case.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Building a protools rig for our studio using the Hero, I'll usually pay more for the best quality primary components.
I am planning on using the Formula for my home rig, I'll cool the VRM on it's own little monitored loop to see if it makes any difference.









I love my old Sabertooth P-67, i have a horizontal rig - so the Formula seemed closest to that in build & quality.
The new TUF boards are more for budget-minded builders, imo.

UEFI and lots of monitoring ability made alot of difference in our choice.
The ROG UEFI seems solid and easy for a twit like myself to understand.

Apex is for RAM overclocking freaks imo, hence only the 2 16gb (32gb max) slots.
When the Extreme comes out next year, it will be the final in the X series, I imagine.

Hopefully, 5 years from now, my formula will still be chugging along at 5 Ghz,
with 128 gb of holo-ram projecting rgb holograms at the ceiling


----------



## whiteyfu

Nice, My last system was a 2500k on an asrock extreme4 that has been going strong for 6 years overclocked 4.0-4.5 the entire time and I let the system run 24/7. I built a ryzen based system a few months back, but got a 1080ti and decided to just go all out on the cpu/motherboard as well instead of sticking with the "best bang for your buck" stuff I got at first.

I definitely want to buy very good/best components again to ensure this system lasts me 5-6 years like my last build.


----------



## DarthFK

Yeah Hey, I am still on my [email protected] right now (@4.2Ghz before). And that's since 2012. My mobo z77extreme4 (nice UEFI) seems to attempt degrading, but I found her lack of faith disturbing and she stopped. And since good cpu&mobo counts indeed that's why I am here!







Bum!


----------



## thebski

It's not going to get much better than the Apex as far as overclocking goes. The Apex doesn't have some features such as wifi or support for 4 dimms, but I doubt there will be any boards that clock much better. It just depends on what is important to you.

I ordered the Apex to play around with a 4400 MHz G Skill kit. I didn't know the Apex was for sale when I originally ordered a Strix board but am quite unimpressed with it and will be sending it back. I would definitely stick to the true ROG boards (I.e. Maximus line) when choosing a board.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> It's not going to get much better than the Apex as far as overclocking goes. The Apex doesn't have some features such as wifi or support for 4 dimms, but I doubt there will be any boards that clock much better. It just depends on what is important to you.
> 
> I ordered the Apex to play around with a 4400 MHz G Skill kit. I didn't know the Apex was for sale when I originally ordered a Strix board but am quite unimpressed with it and will be sending it back. I would definitely stick to the true ROG boards (I.e. Maximus line) when choosing a board.


I would have to agree with that true ROG boards are a pretty hard all round package to beat.


----------



## apw63

I’m waiting for the X formula to drop. Should be couple more weeks. B&H has them up as backordered. You can buy them in Denmark and Australia now.


----------



## TheWizardMan

I'm also waiting for the formula. I'll buy an 8700k once the formula releases.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apw63*
> 
> I'm waiting for the X formula to drop. Should be couple more weeks. B&H has them up as backordered. You can buy them in Denmark and Australia now.


Waiting for Formula as well, where in Australia is it available?
Edit: Found it but ouch the price https://www.mwave.com.au/product/asus-rog-maximus-x-forumla-z370-lga-11512-atx-motherboard-ac10486


----------



## apw63

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Waiting for Formula as well, where in Australia is it available?
> Edit: Found it but ouch the price https://www.mwave.com.au/product/asus-rog-maximus-x-forumla-z370-lga-11512-atx-motherboard-ac10486


You aussies have to pay tip of the top dollar for stuff.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apw63*
> 
> You aussies have to pay tip of the top dollar for stuff.


Sadly yes, we call the Australia tax but really it is due to location and a small population.


----------



## TheWizardMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> Sadly yes, we call the Australia tax but really it is due to location and a small population.


Give me a break--"location and a small population." It's due to regulation, taxation and price gouging. 50% of the Australian population lives in 2 metropolitan areas, making the bulk of the population very easy to service. Shipping costs from Taiwan to Australia are no greater than shipping costs from Taiwan to Australia.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheWizardMan*
> 
> Give me a break--"location and a small population." It's due to regulation, taxation and price gouging. 50% of the Australian population lives in 2 metropolitan areas, making the bulk of the population very easy to service. Shipping costs from Taiwan to Australia are no greater than shipping costs from Taiwan to Australia.


So you are suggesting that a small population has nothing to do with Asus Australia not having the bulk buying power of Asus in the U.S? Nevermind our dollar is not as strong as it used to be. Taxes do play a part in this as well and a lack of competition.


----------



## TheWizardMan

No, what I'm suggesting is that the bulk of the problem is not due to a small population or location, but rather myriad other factors that contribute to one of the worst consumer markets on the planet. These include:

High corporate and individual tax rates;
Astronomically high labor costs in comparison to the US;
Protectionist regulation that makes importing goods a costly endeavor;
High consumption taxes on gasoline;
Stringent consumer protection laws, such as extended warranty coverage, that are costly for sellers of consumer goods; and
Companies willing to take advantage of a market that has all of these conditions and hide it under the guise of population and geological isolation.
Also, I'm not sure what you think "Asus Australia not having the bulk buying power of Asus in the U.S." has to do with this conversation. We are talking about a MNC here, there is no Asus Australia and Asus US (I mean, those entities likely exist, yes), there is only Asus. Purchasing power doesn't matter at all. What matters is transfer pricing


----------



## Griefs

It is amazing how often this thread turns into off-topic arguments; there is a lot of **** to sort through to find information regarding upcoming 8700k's for sale.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

8700Ks will start going up in an hour or so. I plan on working through the night so they'll keep popping up through the evening.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

That's going to be all for tonight, we'll have more going up starting tomorrow morning.


----------



## LukeT32

I am still waiting for the Maximus X Code to arrive.... I currently have a Z97 Maximus 7 Formula, but don't use the VRM water block so thought I would go with the Code this go around. It appears to be the same board minus the vrm water block.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Also waiting (for the Formula to hit the streets) -can hardly wait now that I finished building a Hero.

My Wife's Hero X protools rig build went amazingly fast & easy, about 3 1/2 hours total.
I love the ROG setup and the little things like the CPU installer helper thingy.

Newegg shipped everything ahead of schedule, which was awesome.
The UEFI seems very solid and intuitive, took me a few seconds to assign fan speeds for silent running.

Never built a box completely from the ground up before, the Fractal Design R5 case made it really easy to wire up, -actually kinda fun.
Scanned the RAM CVL list unti my eyes bled, & jumped on some newegg G-skill trident with a low latency - no ram issues at normal clocks.

Used n EVGA cooler & Supernova titanium power supply, and their tiny little GTX1060 SC.
- it only fans up under load & it was 167 bucks for 6 GB. (2 more Gb than my old 980,lol)

Upgraded the CLC 120 aio fan to some noctua radiator fans in push-pull.
Got an Intel 900p (& sold the raven code) for the c drive....windows installs quite fast on an optane drive, fwiw.

I would definitely recommend the Maximus X lineup to a novice builder, based on the UEFI & the overall ease & quality.
The codes flash through on the motherboard as it boots, it's kindof reassuring to see the info there.

The little thing to hold & install the processor was a very useful product for someone like me.
I don't know if other manufacturers make them, but hats off to ROG for including this in their Maximus Hero box candy.


----------



## Legendari

Managed to snag one of the CPUs listed today, looking forward to finally completing my build. What is the recommended thermal paste to put between the CPU and heatsink? (using a Noctua D15)


----------



## Thrakazog

Still looking forward to grabbing an 8700k when supply evens out a little.

I do have a question for *Silicon Lottery*, and I apologize if this information is available. I couldn't find it.

What speed ram do you test the cpu's with ? I know the higher clocked ram puts more stress on the cpu.

So much so, that some of the latest high speed sticks come with the warning to only use with binned chips.

So I'm wondering what ram you achieve stable clocks at.

Thank you for any information you can provide.

PS: I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving (those that celebrated it), and a fruitful Black Friday.

I know I did, using the sales to get the cooling loop for my upcoming 8700k build









PSS: On the "I'm getting this mobo" topic, I'm personally going with the APEX.


----------



## Essenbe

I have a question as well,unless someone else knows the answer. What is SL cut off temp, ie how high do they let it go and still call it stable? Just curious. I bought an 8700K from them. Received it yesterday. Am just waiting on my Apex to arrive. Hopefully tomorrow. Then I can "check them out"


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> Still looking forward to grabbing an 8700k when supply evens out a little.
> 
> I do have a question for *Silicon Lottery*, and I apologize if this information is available. I couldn't find it.
> 
> What speed ram do you test the cpu's with ? I know the higher clocked ram puts more stress on the cpu.
> 
> So much so, that some of the latest high speed sticks come with the warning to only use with binned chips.
> 
> So I'm wondering what ram you achieve stable clocks at.
> 
> Thank you for any information you can provide.
> 
> PS: I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving (those that celebrated it), and a fruitful Black Friday.
> 
> I know I did, using the sales to get the cooling loop for my upcoming 8700k build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PSS: On the "I'm getting this mobo" topic, I'm personally going with the APEX.


Here is a link for the ram tested with coffee lake. https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


----------



## thebski

Either demand is really high or stock quite low. I haven't seen them in stock for more than a few minutes here and there. I'd like to snag a 5.2 chip but can't seem to catch one in stock. I was hoping to grab 5.3 originally, but $1000 for an 8700K that Intel will replace next year is not something for me. Doesn't look like supply will be up or prices down any time in the near future, so 5.2 it is.


----------



## Scotty99

I wouldnt worry about 8c chips surpassing 6c in games for quite some time, difference between 4 and 6 core is the one that matters.


----------



## Legendari

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Either demand is really high or stock quite low. I haven't seen them in stock for more than a few minutes here and there. I'd like to snag a 5.2 chip but can't seem to catch one in stock. I was hoping to grab 5.3 originally, but $1000 for an 8700K that Intel will replace next year is not something for me. Doesn't look like supply will be up or prices down any time in the near future, so 5.2 it is.


Watched the site for a good portion of the day and saw 5.0 GHz 8700Ks in stock for quite a while. Didn't see any 5.2 or 5.3. I opted for a 5.1GHz. Would have gone 5.2GHz, but the price jump just seemed kinda high for something 30%+ of the chips are capable of doing. Figured the 5.1GHz was a decent compromise as it was a bit higher than the total cost of buying a retail 8700K and having it delidded and binned, without the chance of getting a dud that can't break 4.9.


----------



## Thrakazog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Here is a link for the ram tested with coffee lake. https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


Thank you for the link to the information I was looking for.

It is appreciated.


----------



## LukeT32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Here is a link for the ram tested with coffee lake. https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


Anyone running quad channel ram on there builds? I know adding more RAM increases your chances of instability with overclocking. Just curious if anyone has seen any noticeable performance issues with 32gb. Planning a 5.0 8700k, with 32gb of G.SKill RGB ram with a NZXT X52 in push/pull.


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LukeT32*
> 
> Anyone running quad channel ram on there builds? I know adding more RAM increases your chances of instability with overclocking. Just curious if anyone has seen any noticeable performance issues with 32gb. Planning a 5.0 8700k, with 32gb of G.SKill RGB ram with a NZXT X52 in push/pull.


You mean 4 modules? Coffee Lake currently only supports up to Dual channels, which is also possible with 4 modules.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Essenbe*
> 
> I have a question as well,unless someone else knows the answer. What is SL cut off temp, ie how high do they let it go and still call it stable? Just curious. I bought an 8700K from them. Received it yesterday. Am just waiting on my Apex to arrive. Hopefully tomorrow. Then I can "check them out"


We don't have a cut off temperature, besides staying below TJmax of course. You should be well below that though.


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We don't have a cut off temperature, besides staying below TJmax of course. You should be well below that though.


OK, thanks.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

We haven't found an 8700K at 5.3 through the last 100 we tested, so we've taken it off the site for now. These later batches seem to be performing worse.

Also to note, statistics have been updated on the website for all products.


----------



## sammysea

Not trying to be rude, just curious. Why are you continuing to raise your prices on the 8700K? You seem to be getting more in stock now, and everyone else has been lowering their prices (Amazon had them for $370 twice in the past few days.)

Your prices on other CPUs have always seemed very fair to me, and I was excited to buy one, but now it seems like I'm better off taking my chances elsewhere or waiting some unknown amount of time for you to bring your prices back in line.

Again, I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm just wondering what changed. Thank you for reading.


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sammysea*
> 
> Not trying to be rude, just curious. Why are you continuing to raise your prices on the 8700K? You seem to be getting more in stock now, and everyone else has been lowering their prices (Amazon had them for $370 twice in the past few days.)
> 
> Your prices on other CPUs have always seemed very fair to me, and I was excited to buy one, but now it seems like I'm better off taking my chances elsewhere or waiting some unknown amount of time for you to bring your prices back in line.
> 
> Again, I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm just wondering what changed. Thank you for reading.


Their prices have always been relative to rarity, if you read the post above yours you'll see that higher bins are becoming harder to find.


----------



## sammysea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> Their prices have always been relative to rarity, if you read the post above yours you'll see that higher bins are becoming harder to find.


I think you're confused. They raised prices across the board, including the lower bins. They *removed* the higher bins (5.3GHz) due to a lack of them.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sammysea*
> 
> Not trying to be rude, just curious. Why are you continuing to raise your prices on the 8700K? You seem to be getting more in stock now, and everyone else has been lowering their prices (Amazon had them for $370 twice in the past few days.)
> 
> Your prices on other CPUs have always seemed very fair to me, and I was excited to buy one, but now it seems like I'm better off taking my chances elsewhere or waiting some unknown amount of time for you to bring your prices back in line.
> 
> Again, I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm just wondering what changed. Thank you for reading.


They are still selling for $414, those lower prices were black friday and cyber monday deals, those deals are now gone. 8700ks from amazon also dont come delidded and tested. Silicon lottery cant just do all that for free and sell at $414 theyd go out of business.liquid metal isnt cheap you know and they do have bills to pay. Prices havent been raised those deals are just gone.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psychocipher*
> 
> They are still selling for $414, those lower prices were black friday and cyber monday deals, those deals are now gone. 8700ks from amazon also dont come delidded and tested. Silicon lottery cant just do all that for free and sell at $414 theyd go out of business.liquid metal isnt cheap you know and they do have bills to pay. Prices havent been raised those deals are just gone.


I bought my 5Ghz 8700k from SiliconLottery for $479. It's now $499 for a 5Ghz 8700k. Prices have gone up. This is likely because the newer batches of CPUs SiliconLottery has been receiving haven't been clocking as high as the early batches. Prices are set by how rare clocks are. If higher clocks start becoming harder to achieve on a new batch of CPUs... Then yes, the price will go up.


----------



## sammysea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psychocipher*
> 
> They are still selling for $414, those lower prices were black friday and cyber monday deals, those deals are now gone. 8700ks from amazon also dont come delidded and tested. Silicon lottery cant just do all that for free and sell at $414 theyd go out of business.liquid metal isnt cheap you know and they do have bills to pay. Prices havent been raised those deals are just gone.


So you're saying all the prices before now were just promotional deals, and these will be the new standard prices?

Maybe you're right, but I'd appreciate hearing that from an official source.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sammysea*
> 
> So you're saying all the prices before now were just promotional deals, and these will be the new standard prices?
> 
> Maybe you're right, but I'd appreciate hearing that from an official source.


Yes mostly, black friday is the best time to buy cpus. Hell i see 7820x's as low as $500 with amazon selling for $455 for a hot second. Also being coffee lake is so new you are paying the early adopter tax unfortunetly Im sure silicon lottery will be on shortly to help with your questions but you never know prices may go down for cyber monday deals again. Either way i hope you find what your looking for


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sammysea*
> 
> So you're saying all the prices before now were just promotional deals, and these will be the new standard prices?
> 
> Maybe you're right, but I'd appreciate hearing that from an official source.


If you looked on the site while the deal was running you'd see that some things had a red rounded rectangle and text saying how much it was discounted.. I rushed and got a 5.2Ghz i5 8600K while that was $60 USD off ($329 instead of it's normal $389).


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> If you looked on the site while the deal was running you'd see that some things had a red rounded rectangle and text saying how much it was discounted.. I rushed and got a 5.2Ghz i5 8600K while that was $60 USD off ($329 instead of it's normal $389).


Which is actually kind of sad being thats what quad cores were selling for not even a year ago lol 5ghz 7700ks were actually selling for that same $389 6 months ago.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> If you looked on the site while the deal was running you'd see that some things had a red rounded rectangle and text saying how much it was discounted.. I rushed and got a 5.2Ghz i5 8600K while that was $60 USD off ($329 instead of it's normal $389).


The 8600Ks have had a discount at one point (the little red rectangle you're talking about). The 8700K has not. The standard pricing on a 5Ghz 8700K was $479 at SiliconLottery. It is now $499. The price has definitely gone up on the 8700Ks. See my above comment for the most likely explanation, but you'll have to wait for confirmation from SL.


----------



## VeritronX

8700K's are too expensive anyways in general, an 8700K's list price here is over $100 AUD more than what the total posted cost of that 5.2Ghz Delidded i5 8600K was.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> 8700K's are too expensive anyways in general, an 8700K's list price here is over $100 AUD more than what the total posted cost of that 5.2Ghz Delidded i5 8600K was.


Exactly, its almost worth just going past it and buying a 7820x with more cores,not far off single thread performance and no waiting for availability. Time is money and 8700k needs be widely available, selling at msrp for new oem ones. We should be seeing 5ghz 8700ks selling for that $390.


----------



## fixall

I have a feeling that soon we're going to find out that only about 50% (or less) of 8700Ks are able to overclock to 5Ghz or higher (instead of 70%+ that we saw at the start). I wouldn't put it past Intel to release a limited quantity of binned 8700Ks at release so as to build up hype and make people think twice about picking up Ryzen this holiday season. Having the vast majority of 8700Ks overclock to 5Ghz or higher builds a lot more hype than if the majority of 8700Ks overclocked to 4.9Ghz or higher.

This along with the rush to get the CPU to the market to compete with Ryzen would help explain the limited availability we've seen with Coffe Lake.

Ok, I'll take off the tinfoil now.


----------



## Hero101

They're still cheaper than 8pack or Caseking's delidded CPU's those are insane prices. At least in AUD.


----------



## FarisLeonhart

This is taking so long, ready to buy 8700K

might buy from Amazon if price drops down to $370


----------



## Silicon Lottery

We'll have some more going up this afternoon through the evening.


----------



## FarisLeonhart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We'll have some more going up this afternoon through the evening.


/cheer

glad to hear! thanks


----------



## Stronkman

What time?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We'll have some more going up this afternoon through the evening.


----------



## TGHaworth

Tried to buy and out of stock before I could complete checkout, RIP.


----------



## FarisLeonhart

Bought ONE!

Intel 8700K @ 5.1GHz Boxed Processor Delidded

I was so torn between 5 or 5.1 but I had to decide fast or it's all gone lol, so I picked 5.1 since the difference is about $60 from 5ghz, unlike 5.2 which is too much ($679) :\

Will try 5.2ghz with 360+240 rads *hope*


----------



## Silicon Lottery

More will be going up in about 3 hours.


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FarisLeonhart*
> 
> This is taking so long, ready to buy 8700K
> 
> might buy from Amazon if price drops down to $370


Newegg price dropped to $405: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117827

Supply is finally keeping up with demand. Once the China production line comes online in a week, I expect prices will fall back closer to MSRP ($360).

Hopefully, that drop will be reflected in the SL pricing too, else i'll just buy a stock chip, delid it, and take my chances. I guess I'm more interested in the cooling advantages of delidding than I am in 2% or 4% more speed.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> More will be going up in about 3 hours.


Started the F5 stabbing around 3:30, stopping now.
I never saw any show up....
Did they go that fast?


----------



## Nickedit

5.0 and 5.1 GHz up now.


----------



## Avraham

Grabbed the last 5.1 it seems. Phew.









5.0 still there as of now.


----------



## FarisLeonhart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> Newegg price dropped to $405: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117827
> 
> Supply is finally keeping up with demand. Once the China production line comes online in a week, I expect prices will fall back closer to MSRP ($360).
> 
> Hopefully, that drop will be reflected in the SL pricing too, else i'll just buy a stock chip, delid it, and take my chances. I guess I'm more interested in the cooling advantages of delidding than I am in 2% or 4% more speed.


I got mine today (5.1Ghz), so paying $160 more for a 43% rare chip guaranteed & delidded feels barely acceptable to me since I don't want to endanger a stock 8700K if i try to delid plus better than buying a delid tool with a random chip.


----------



## Mej7im

How long should i wait for next patch ??
And what is the motherbord in the qvl for the 8700k??


----------



## Bothand Nether

Formula X is now up on Newegg fwiw.
-gonna be needing a CPU real soon now


----------



## LukeT32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mej7im*
> 
> How long should i wait for next patch ??
> And what is the motherbord in the qvl for the 8700k??


https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-coffee-lake


----------



## Silicon Lottery

More will be going up basically every evening this week. I expect we will be starting to catch up to demand shortly.


----------



## Seyumi

Too bad about the 5.3ghz 8700k. Glad I opted for the 5.3ghz 8600k instead. Fairly confident you'll get better performance (video games strictly) from a 5.3Ghz 6C/6T versus a 5.2Ghz 6C/12T and save $210 in the process (at current price). Don't think the extra 3MB of cache will beat an extra 100hz in performance and remember that hyper threading is more of a miss than a hit for gaming (been proven with multiple tests/benchmarks). It was mostly useful back in the earlier days when games starting to utilize 4+ cores/threads but not so much now. I'm glad I went with the 8600k (I paid like $80 more than it is now though, doh!)


----------



## thebski

They are up. All speeds from 4.9 to 5.3.


----------



## Stronkman

got a 5.2
2ez


----------



## apw63

I got a 5.0


----------



## TGHaworth

I keep missing them, reeee


----------



## t3ch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TGHaworth*
> 
> I keep missing them, reeee


instant-notify subscribe to the thread until you get one.









picked up a 4.9 last night. more or less the same price as buying from elsewhere+shipping back/forth, without the hassle. nice to have this part of the build finally taken care of. first time delidding, looking forward to seeing how things compare to people's stock averages.


----------



## Essenbe

I picked up a 5.2 a couple weeks ago and a Asus Apex board. This was my first delidded chip too. I am shocked at the low temps I am getting. I ran AIDA Non AVX for an hour and had 1 core spike to 63°C briefly. For the most part I was running in the mid to high 50's. It was the same when I ran Real Bench for an hour with an AVX offset of 2. All with a Corsair H105. Same temps. I am very happy and glad I paid the extra for my CPU. Hats off to SL for a professional job. I was planning on doing a custom loop. But with the temps I am getting with an AIO, I don't see the advantage.

Now, to convince myself to quit playing with it and get it off the bench and into the case.


----------



## whiteyfu

Finally pulled the trigger on a 5.2 8600k and a apex mother board to throw it on last night, pretty stoked to recieve them. Wish I had decided on the 8600k while they were on sale though, lul.


----------



## Conditions

Eta on 5.1 stock?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditions*
> 
> Eta on 5.1 stock?


There are some up now.


----------



## TGHaworth

Finally got one =D


----------



## Thrakazog

@ Silicon Lottery

I have (maybe a stupid) question.

I just ordered the 8700k 5.2 this morning. I'm wondering if freezing weather during shipping will affect the materials used for the delid.

Even though I'm right next door, the Southern US has freezing weather at the moment.

I can't help but wonder if the liquid metal will be affected while sitting around in a shipping truck.

I won't be able to build my PC until around Feb / Mar of next year, so I won't be able to test it immediately.

As to why I ordered one when I can't build for a couple months.....

Probably silly again, but I can't help but wonder if the Chinese built chips might be a little less in quality when it comes to OCing.

We already saw the 5.3 disappear, so.......

Anyways, any info on if I should worry about the weather affecting things is appreciated.

Thank you very much.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> @ Silicon Lottery
> 
> I have (maybe a stupid) question.
> 
> I just ordered the 8700k 5.2 this morning. I'm wondering if freezing weather during shipping will affect the materials used for the delid.
> 
> Even though I'm right next door, the Southern US has freezing weather at the moment.
> 
> I can't help but wonder if the liquid metal will be affected while sitting around in a shipping truck.
> 
> I won't be able to build my PC until around Feb / Mar of next year, so I won't be able to test it immediately.
> 
> As to why I ordered one when I can't build for a couple months.....
> 
> Probably silly again, but I can't help but wonder if the Chinese built chips might be a little less in quality when it comes to OCing.
> 
> We already saw the 5.3 disappear, so.......
> 
> Anyways, any info on if I should worry about the weather affecting things is appreciated.
> 
> Thank you very much.


We've shipped a lot of delidded processors through many winters at this point, and there have never been any problems in that regard.


----------



## Thrakazog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We've shipped a lot of delidded processors through many winters at this point, and there have never been any problems in that regard.


Thank you for your response. I feel much better now.









Looking forward to building my PC with the SL cpu.


----------



## moon162612

I also looked at this 5.2 bought by Thrakazog ;-) Finally bought the last 5.1 you had.

Wanted to say thank you for the opportunity to buy a tested CPU. That's nice that finally performance became less lottery and more a money thing ;-)

I have a few questions:
1) QVL supposes using AIO, but have you tested CPUs with some premium air cooling? I have Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT with huge heat sink, which I am planning to switch to the liquid cooler, though I am just wondering if there is a chance it can work out for lower voltage/frequency, e.g. 4.9/1.35.

2) What working temperatures are considered normal for let's say 100% utilization of all cores for a couple of hours for my 5.1?

3) I noticed you specified 1.412V Vcore voltage, which is per what I read is considered higher than 1.3-1.4 bracket considered normal. Is it safe to run 1.412V for 24hours for several years?

4) I have no deep experience with overclocking, so for me it is a new endeavor. Do you have any guide your can recommend as a starting point?
I've found this video so far 



 which matches my motherboard (Asus Maximus X Hero). Also, Asus comes with AI Suite software for automatic performance tuning, but it's not suitable to achieve the target results, right?

Look forward to your replies! Thank you!


----------



## cerealkeller

I bought a binned 7700K from SL. I am able to run it at lower voltage than they suggested and also a higher clock speed too. I think the voltage they give you is an average max voltage for CPUs they've binned at that speed to improve the likelihood of stability for everyone who buys one. However, I have a high end custom cooling loop. Which could make a difference.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cerealkeller*
> 
> I bought a binned 7700K from SL. I am able to run it at lower voltage than they suggested and also a higher clock speed too. I think the voltage they give you is an average max voltage for CPUs they've binned at that speed to improve the likelihood of stability for everyone who buys one. However, I have a high end custom cooling loop. Which could make a difference.


Silicon lottery tests all the CPUs at the same voltage levels for a bin, some pass and some don't that is all they test.


----------



## newls1

any idea when more 8700's will be in? and maybe a price drop...... since all will basically do 4.9 out of box, 470$ is getting to that price point where i can go to microcenter and pick 1 up for 399 and save... I have everything here to delid and what not..


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> Too bad about the 5.3ghz 8700k. Glad I opted for the 5.3ghz 8600k instead. Fairly confident you'll get better performance (video games strictly) from a 5.3Ghz 6C/6T versus a 5.2Ghz 6C/12T and save $210 in the process (at current price). Don't think the extra 3MB of cache will beat an extra 100hz in performance and remember that hyper threading is more of a miss than a hit for gaming (been proven with multiple tests/benchmarks). It was mostly useful back in the earlier days when games starting to utilize 4+ cores/threads but not so much now. I'm glad I went with the 8600k (I paid like $80 more than it is now though, doh!)


DX12 CPU Benchmark at 57 sec mark.

Doesn't look like no difference to me.






And:

http://thepcenthusiast.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-and-core-i5-8600k-benchmarks/

There's a difference.

(Ashes of Singularity i5 8600k 104 FPS, i7 8700k 120 FPS)


----------



## Griefs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> DX12 CPU Benchmark at 57 sec mark.
> 
> Doesn't look like no difference to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And:
> 
> http://thepcenthusiast.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-and-core-i5-8600k-benchmarks/
> 
> There's a difference.
> 
> (Ashes of Singularity i5 8600k 104 FPS, i7 8700k 120 FPS)


So the 8600k and 8700k in the references you cited are both OC'd to the same freq?


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Griefs*
> 
> So the 8600k and 8700k in the references you cited are both OC'd to the same freq?


Ah, I see your point, i5 8600k only does 4.3 GHz out-of-the-box.

Here's a good comparison with them both at the same freq., the only real difference I saw here was with Watch Dogs 2 where the 8700k did 107 FPS at 1920x1080, 7 FPS higher than the 8600K. Otherwise they are the same:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3157-intel-i5-8600k-review-overclocking-vs-8700k-8400/page-2


----------



## Mooncheese

GN did conclude that although the i5 8600k is adequate for gaming, about on par with the i7 8700k, that it's $300+ pricetag is too much and I agree. If youre going to put down over $300 for this I would just pay up for the 8700k because there are games (like Watch Dogs 2, to say nothing of Firestrike CPU and other titles that may appreciate HT) that would benefit from the HT.

I would like to see the 8600k outperforming the 8700k, the physical core vs. HT argument, laid out by the OP.

"Conclusion: i5-8600K, 8700K, or AMD Ryzen?

The Intel i5-8600K is a return to an old argument. Before Ryzen's launch, and before the i5-7600K, the fact was that most i5 CPUs were perfectly adequate for gaming, if not more than adequate. As the i5 lineup aged, though, a game would occasionally fall through the cracks for more frametime variance, and then the R5 lineup shipped. The AMD R5 CPUs were far more competitive with Intel than the R7 CPUs were, when considering same-cost gaming-targeted chips. For R5s, they kept up well enough with Intel in gaming and offered greater room for hobbyist production that, overall, the CPUs just made more sense than an i5.

Now, though, the i5s are giving AMD a fight. The i5-8400 would make more sense with a B360 or H-series motherboard, and so it sits this round out until more appropriate motherboard options ship. The i5-8600K, however, is fully overclockable and belongs on a Z370 board, even if one of the cheaper ones. The 8600K and 8400 alike reintroduce the "an i5 is fine for gaming" argument, but it is primarily in the context versus an i7 - just like it used to be, back when AMD couldn't dream of competing (see: FX series).

And that has shaped up like this: An i5-8600K, for a person who is primarily playing games, is more than adequate when compared to an i7-8700K. In most instances, ignoring special use cases like livestreaming via H264, production tasks, or 144Hz framerates, an i7 would be excess spending. The i5-8600K's high frequency and core count make it fully capable of gaming at its own similarly high framerates, and significantly more mobile and future-looking than the 7600K was.

That said, it's also $300 today, at time of writing, and that means it's not really competing with the R5 1600 - as names would suggest - but the R7 1700 (+ OC) CPUs. For gaming, sure, an 8600K is a great buy. The extra two cores help, but not enough to make up for deficit in things like Blender. A lot of people don't use things like Blender, don't do 3D modeling, don't do rendering - those people can still look toward Intel, just note that we believe the 8600K should be closer to $200-$250, not $300. For folks who do intend to spend a reasonable amount of time doing workstation tasks, Ryzen still looks like the best value for that.

The 8600K is a superb overclocker, though, making it fun to play around with as an enthusiast. It's also among the highest two performers on our gaming benchmarks, for which it deserves great credit. The i5-8400 or R5 1600(X) CPUs both offer potentially better value, diminishing returns considered versus spend, but it just depends on the price category of the build."


----------



## Mooncheese

Hi, I sent out my 8700k for binnig and delid last week and tracking is showing that it has arrived at your facility Saturday. Are there updates on the order on the website, i.e. "CPU received, order in progress, order finished, shipped" etc.?

Thanks.


----------



## fixall

So, I've been using the 5Ghz 8700K I ordered from SL for about a week now. Holy crap is it nice! I had an initial issue with stability, but after a super fast response from SL suggesting I update my bios I have had zero issues (if you have an ASRock z370 Taichi, be sure to update the bios from 1.1 to 1.2). In fact, the the CPU is already performing better than advertised. I haven't had a chance to really dial in the overclock as I wanted to really test the system for stability at close to the guaranteed clocks, but that will be coming soon (I have the next two days off work). Right now I have it running at 5Ghz with 1.34v (just the first voltage I tried after testing it at the guaranteed settings) and it is ROCK SOLID. I know I'll be able to get that voltage down a bit after doing some tuning (keep in mind it's only guaranteed to run at 5Ghz with 1.4v).

I have a Predator 360 cooling a Titan X and the 8700K. They both sit around 35c during idle and the absolute peak temperature I've been able to hit is 75c on the CPU (using Aida64, Handbrake and marathon gaming session of Rise of the Tomb Raider, BF1, ARK, The Witcher 3, GTA V, Far Cry 4... Haven't tested Prime 95).

So far I am extremely pleased with my purchase. I'm going to do some testing this weekend and see how far I can get the voltage down and adjust my fans a bit for a near silent idle. I'll put up a more in depth review in the "Post-Sales" forum after that.

P.S.

Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is definitely not my favorite thermal paste to apply.

*update
5Ghz @1.312v and holding strong so far.


----------



## markm75

Any word on when stock will be there for the 5.1 8700k again?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> Hi, I sent out my 8700k for binnig and delid last week and tracking is showing that it has arrived at your facility Saturday. Are there updates on the order on the website, i.e. "CPU received, order in progress, order finished, shipped" etc.?
> Thanks.


We only pick up mail on weekdays, so you should have gotten an email this morning.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Any word on when stock will be there for the 5.1 8700k again?


Should be tonight or tomorrow. Shipments are getting delayed left and right coming in to us at the moment.


----------



## markm75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> Should be tonight or tomorrow. Shipments are getting delayed left and right coming in to us at the moment.


Awesome thanks..

Curious...is the 5.1 harder/impossible to hit if using 4 memory chips (32GB) as opposed to just two (in the asrock fatality gamer board)?


----------



## d3n4l1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Curious...is the 5.1 harder/impossible to hit if using 4 memory chips (32GB) as opposed to just two (in the asrock fatality gamer board)?


I have the same question. I'm looking to get a 5.2ghz and use it in a Maximus X Formula, maybe using water on the VRM, with 64GB of RAM (RAM caching with Primocache). I had good results with 32GB RAM on a 3077k and V Formula, but I wonder if I could have done better, if ram limited things. My ram was 2400.

Also, is it possible that with further tweaking, maybe custom sub-ambient phase cooling, your chips will go higher than what you test them for?

I live in Katy! Can I come over and play? Or at least save on shipping? Do you have a teacher discount?


----------



## markm75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d3n4l1*
> 
> I have the same question. I'm looking to get a 5.2ghz and use it in a Maximus X Formula, maybe using water on the VRM, with 64GB of RAM (RAM caching with Primocache). I had good results with 32GB RAM on a 3077k and V Formula, but I wonder if I could have done better, if ram limited things. My ram was 2400.


Also, i should have asked, 3200 being the target speed with 4 chips whether that is more of an issue than 2 vs 4 chips.. hate to shell out $400 on new ram only to find out the old 4 sticks would have hit the speed and cpu 5.1..

My other question is regarding the qvl for motherboard..

*They list ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Professional Gaming i7 as one board .. however, i was going to go with the regular ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Gaming i7 (non professional).. does pro vs regular really matter here? (not even sure what the difference in the boards is here, maybe one less pciex1 slot and an additional m.2 slot)


----------



## cx-ray

Generally speaking, more memory, higher density sticks, or greater number of sticks all put a higher strain on your CPU and Memory Controller. Can't tell whether higher clocking memory will limit your OC target, unless you test it with your specific setup.


----------



## MattSG

Anyone bought a 8700k who's from the UK? Wondering what sort of import/duty tax I'll be hit with


----------



## LukeT32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Also, i should have asked, 3200 being the target speed with 4 chips whether that is more of an issue than 2 vs 4 chips.. hate to shell out $400 on new ram only to find out the old 4 sticks would have hit the speed and cpu 5.1..
> 
> My other question is regarding the qvl for motherboard..
> 
> *They list ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Professional Gaming i7 as one board .. however, i was going to go with the regular ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Gaming i7 (non professional).. does pro vs regular really matter here? (not even sure what the difference in the boards is here, maybe one less pciex1 slot and an additional m.2 slot)


Looks back in the thread. I know they removed an ASRock board or two due to varying VRM configurations on the exact same model board causing stability issues. Personally I would go with an ASUS board.


----------



## DarthFK

So, the @5.3GHz 8700k that was over 1k $ about 30min ago is down to $ 999.99 now and no one is buying it. Saturation, possibly. Same for $679 5.2Ghz? I don't know, but I am aware of some markets around the world where ppl would drive the prices up, to later sell items "on sale" above regular price anyway, but the deliding and binning is not your regular thing, kind of custom.


----------



## DarthFK

Ah, aparently no saturation. The 5.3Ghz just sold for $999.99...


----------



## ducegt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthFK*
> 
> So, the @5.3GHz 8700k that was over 1k $ about 30min ago is down to $ 999.99 now and no one is buying it. Saturation, possibly. Same for $679 5.2Ghz? I don't know, but I am aware of some markets around the world where ppl would drive the prices up, to later sell items "on sale" above regular price anyway, but the deliding and binning is not your regular thing, kind of custom.


Almost everyone on the planet is subject to free enterprise. Keen insight.


----------



## Kunzopolis

I still haven't picked up a motherboard for my 8700k just yet, can some people who have fully set up their systems share their memory/motherboard setups and what speeds they are getting on their RAM and CPU?

The reason that I ask is that I generally prefer to go 2x16gb for my RAM configuration, however I've noticed the following things:


The highest speed 2x16GB from G-Skill or Corsair that I've found seems to top out at 4,000Mhz
Quite a few of the z370 mobo seem to cap out around 4133mhz, but not all (the Asus APEX has 4500mhz kits on the QVL) -> ASUS Maximus X APEX QVL
Corsair ram with equal configuration and timings seem to be the same price or higher(usually higher..) at virtually every single bracket... so I guess I'll just keep pretending that G-Skill is the only ram on the planet. It has never done me wrong and I'm like 4 builds deep of using only G-Skill, please let me know if I should consider another brand.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.

Anyway, that's what I've been thinking about as I shop around for motherboards and ram. Please share your thoughts and/or experiences with me.

If anyone believes that I've said something that is way off the mark please give me your feedback.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I still haven't picked up a motherboard for my 8700k just yet, can some people who have fully set up their systems share their memory/motherboard setups and what speeds they are getting on their RAM and CPU?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that I generally prefer to go 2x16gb for my RAM configuration, however I've noticed the following things:
> 
> 
> The highest speed 2x16GB from G-Skill or Corsair that I've found seems to top out at 4,000Mhz
> Quite a few of the z370 mobo seem to cap out around 4133mhz, but not all (the Asus APEX has 4500mhz kits on the QVL) -> ASUS Maximus X APEX QVL
> Corsair ram with equal configuration and timings seem to be the same price or higher(usually higher..) at virtually every single bracket... so I guess I'll just keep pretending that G-Skill is the only ram on the planet. It has never done me wrong and I'm like 4 builds deep of using only G-Skill, please let me know if I should consider another brand.
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I've been thinking about as I shop around for motherboards and ram. Please share your thoughts and/or experiences with me.
> 
> If anyone believes that I've said something that is way off the mark please give me your feedback.


Maximus X Formula with an [email protected]/4.8Ghz [email protected], memory 4x4GB Corsair Dominator platinum @3200Mhz







Honestly you cant go wrong with Corsair or GSkill memory however buying memory above 3200Mhz to 3600Mhz is really a waste of money, the real world gains are very small for a large increase in cost, mostly e-peen to be honest. The memory I already had from my previous build is on the QVL list for my board.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.


High MHz is not the only defining criterion for the memory performance. The memory performance is defined by 2 parameters: frequency and CAS latency.
Frequency defines how many times per second the memory is "requested", and CAS latency defines how many cycles are needed to fulfill the request.

The math is very simple: you need to divide MHz by latency number, and thus, you will get the performance rating.

Per what I see at NewEgg, the best frequency for CAS=18 is 4000Mhz, which means 4000/18=222.222
For CAS=19 the best you can have is 4600 MHz, which is crazy expensive (~$550 for 16Gb) and gives 242.10526316, and I am not sure about the motherboard's support for such a high frequency.
More or less adequate price and performance is for CAS=19 and 4133MHz, which gives 217.52 for (~$300+ for 16Gb).

However, I personally went with CAS=14 and 3200MHz, which gives you perfect 3200/14=228.57 for just $230 per 16Gb, and with a set maximum of 64Gb. Stable, adequate cost, in QVL for the most of motherboards, and the top notch performance.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I still haven't picked up a motherboard for my 8700k just yet, can some people who have fully set up their systems share their memory/motherboard setups and what speeds they are getting on their RAM and CPU?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that I generally prefer to go 2x16gb for my RAM configuration, however I've noticed the following things:
> 
> 
> The highest speed 2x16GB from G-Skill or Corsair that I've found seems to top out at 4,000Mhz
> Quite a few of the z370 mobo seem to cap out around 4133mhz, but not all (the Asus APEX has 4500mhz kits on the QVL) -> ASUS Maximus X APEX QVL
> Corsair ram with equal configuration and timings seem to be the same price or higher(usually higher..) at virtually every single bracket... so I guess I'll just keep pretending that G-Skill is the only ram on the planet. It has never done me wrong and I'm like 4 builds deep of using only G-Skill, please let me know if I should consider another brand.
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I've been thinking about as I shop around for motherboards and ram. Please share your thoughts and/or experiences with me.
> 
> If anyone believes that I've said something that is way off the mark please give me your feedback.


I bought a 5.2 8700K from Silicon Lottery, have an Apex, and have tested a couple different memory kits now.

Right now I'm running 5.2 core/5.0 cache at 1.376v with the memory at 4133 Cas 17 with tight seconds and thirds. I'm not willing to go high enough on the VCCSA or VCCIO to make 4266 work at these timings, and I don't think I want to loosen them.

First off, you're not going run 4400 MHz daily with decently low timings. You are unlikely to be able to run XMP on the G.Skill kit without a lot of VCCSA and IO, unless your particular chip has an exceptional IMC. I've tried an 8600K and this 8700K now, and it's a no go up to 1.25v on both SA and IO. Also, many lower rated kits can reach higher speeds. I purchased the 4400 MHz G.Skill kit you are talking about, but my 3200 MHz Dominator Platinum SE memory will achieve the same clocks at the same voltages, and in fact that's the memory I'm going to leave in the rig because I think it looks better.









I don't know that the really highly rated kits are worth the money. The memory doesn't seem to be any better than other high quality kits that are rated much lower. That, or I'm just not going far enough with voltages to separate them. I think 4000 to 4133 is achievable for most CPUs with relatively good timings, so if I were to give you a suggestion as a speed to shoot for, I would aim in that range. Whether or not you buy a kit rated for it I guess depends on whether you want to manually tune a kit or just set the XMP profile.

Edit: If you do just set the XMP profile and go, set the voltages manually. I think a lot of people set XMP and go, and the boards usually drastically over compensate on voltage as clock speeds are increased, both on memory and CPU core.


----------



## ried16

i have a 8350k im thinking about having delidded and binned. do you use a mix of fsb and multi or multi only? also do you stress test all cpus the same or can you use different methods depending on what the cpu will be used for?


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> went with CAS=14 and 3200MHz, which gives you perfect 3200/14=228.57 for just $230 per 16Gb, and with a set maximum of 64Gb. Stable, adequate cost, in QVL for the most of motherboards, and the top notch performance.


*+1*
Painstakingly went through the ROG QVL & Used G-Skill Trident 16GBx2 3200 14-14-14-34 1.35v ( *F4-3200C14D-32GTZSW* ) for the Missus's Hero X Protools rig.

We fall into the group that values stability over the relatively small performance gain that cooking one's RAM provides.

Also confirmed that 3200 16gb x 2 16-18-18-38 1.35v (*F4-3200C16D-32GTZKB*) works flawlessly in a Friend's Hero X wi-fi Gaming/Streaming Rig
(also listed on the ROG mobo QVL)

I'll add the RAM I end up using on my upcoming Formula x build after I get this awesome CPU I am saving up for


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I still haven't picked up a motherboard for my 8700k just yet, can some people who have fully set up their systems share their memory/motherboard setups and what speeds they are getting on their RAM and CPU?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that I generally prefer to go 2x16gb for my RAM configuration, however I've noticed the following things:
> 
> 
> The highest speed 2x16GB from G-Skill or Corsair that I've found seems to top out at 4,000Mhz
> Quite a few of the z370 mobo seem to cap out around 4133mhz, but not all (the Asus APEX has 4500mhz kits on the QVL) -> ASUS Maximus X APEX QVL
> Corsair ram with equal configuration and timings seem to be the same price or higher(usually higher..) at virtually every single bracket... so I guess I'll just keep pretending that G-Skill is the only ram on the planet. It has never done me wrong and I'm like 4 builds deep of using only G-Skill, please let me know if I should consider another brand.
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I've been thinking about as I shop around for motherboards and ram. Please share your thoughts and/or experiences with me.
> 
> If anyone believes that I've said something that is way off the mark please give me your feedback.


I have an 8700K and a Apex and I love the Apex. So far it has done everything I have asked of it. I can run 5.2 stable and my G Skill 3200C14 overclocked to 4000.I haven't tried anything over 4000 because from what I saw, there was little advantage in running ram that fast. I may be very wrong though. I've hit 5.3 at just under 1.4V and believe I could get it stable if I wanted to run more voltage through it. It would probably be OK if I did, but not right now.


----------



## jabroni80

so is anyone else not as hyped with the voltages for the speeds? is it because the cache is also set to the same speed?

i bought 2 retail 8700ks [same batch number] and sent them off for delidding with a mate whos done it for years as a hobby and both came back able to real bench 5ghz @ 1.35/1.34v with no avx offset.

He even mentioned he had done a few others that benched at lower volts and some that needed more so mine was "middle of the range" which left me a bit underwhelmed at the time

i installed the slightly lower voltage one permanently, benched in xtu, 3dmark, realbench, prime95 etc all passed at 1.34v with cache at default. It can even do 5.1 @ 1.4v and thats as high as ive pushed it but never did any avx offset

Its now almost a month now doing everything i need especially gaming plus occasionally recoding files and photo work and hasn't crashed once so i can say its 100% stable

so when i see the volts listed for the SL binned ones im not really impressed as i feel taking your chances with buying retail and getting them to delid would be about the same result if not better

anyone else a bit underwhelmed at the volts required?


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jabroni80*
> 
> so is anyone else not as hyped with the voltages for the speeds? is it because the cache is also set to the same speed?
> 
> i bought 2 retail 8700ks [same batch number] and sent them off for delidding with a mate whos done it for years as a hobby and both came back able to real bench 5ghz @ 1.35/1.34v with no avx offset.
> 
> He even mentioned he had done a few others that benched at lower volts and some that needed more so mine was "middle of the range" which left me a bit underwhelmed at the time
> 
> i installed the slightly lower voltage one permanently, benched in xtu, 3dmark, realbench, prime95 etc all passed at 1.34v with cache at default. It can even do 5.1 @ 1.4v and thats as high as ive pushed it but never did any avx offset
> 
> Its now almost a month now doing everything i need especially gaming plus occasionally recoding files and photo work and hasn't crashed once so i can say its 100% stable
> 
> so when i see the volts listed for the SL binned ones im not really impressed as i feel taking your chances with buying retail and getting them to delid would be about the same result if not better
> 
> anyone else a bit underwhelmed at the volts required?


Keep in mind different stress tests require different vcore, also SL allow a margin of error with the volts they claim. SL test at voltage points so you might be able to get them slightly lower than advertised with some CPU's.


----------



## moon162612

Guys, I'd appreciate it if anyone could give a hint on the following questions:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> 1) QVL supposes using AIO, but have you tested CPUs with some premium air cooling? I have Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT with huge heat sink, which I am planning to switch to the liquid cooler, though I am just wondering if there is a chance it can work out for lower voltage/frequency, e.g. 4.9/1.35.
> 2) What working temperatures are considered normal for let's say 100% utilization of all cores for a couple of hours for my 5.1?
> 4) I have no deep experience with overclocking, so for me it is a new endeavor. Do you have any guide your can recommend as a starting point?
> I've found this video so far
> 
> 
> 
> which matches my motherboard (Asus Maximus X Hero). Also, Asus comes with AI Suite software for automatic performance tuning, but it's not suitable to achieve the target results, right?


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Guys, I'd appreciate it if anyone could give a hint on the following questions:


1. That Thermalright performs as well as a lot of aio water coolers. It would do just fine. Voltage is all luck of the draw. For instance, I purchased an 8700k which is guaranteed to run at 5Ghz @1.4v. It can actually run at 5Ghz with 1.33v and is rock solid stable. If I back it down to 4.9Ghz I can get close to 1.3v.

2. Do you render? What could you possible do besides artificially stress test your CPU that would utilize all the cores 100% for hours on end? I try to keep my temps in the mid 60s or below if I am heavily utilizing the CPU with spikes no higher than the mid 70s. Others will have different ideas of what is considered normal though. It all depends on your cooling solution and fan and/or pump speed.

4. (Where did 3 go?) Der8auer is a fantastic overclocker and knows his stuff. You can follow his guide if you want to, but really if you don't have a lot of experience, I would just set the multiplier to 51, the voltage to what the CPU is rated for (through SL) set the AVX offset to -2 and then back off the voltage by .01 each time... Testing for stability until you crash and then add .01 (or .02 if you want to be safe). From there you can start reading and watching videos to start understanding overclocking on a deeper level before you hit the more advanced options. I recommend reading up on voltage offsets.


----------



## moon162612

Thanks a lot for your replies!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> 1. That Thermalright performs as well as a lot of aio water coolers. It would do just fine. Voltage is all luck of the draw. For instance, I purchased an 8700k which is guaranteed to run at 5Ghz @1.4v. It can actually run at 5Ghz with 1.33v and is rock solid stable. If I back it down to 4.9Ghz I can get close to 1.3v.


Got it. The reason I am asking is that I actually had a weird thing with this cooler and a stock 8700k. With even a relatively modest OC till 4.7 GHz for all cores it hit 95-100 degrees on CineBench. I even thought there is something wrong with the installation. I returned the CPU and ordered 5.1GHz delidded one from SL. Will try it early next week and really hope it will help. Maybe that was just a crappy CPU.

Quote:


> 2. Do you render? What could you possible do besides artificially stress test your CPU that would utilize all the cores 100% for hours on end? I try to keep my temps in the mid 60s or below if I am heavily utilizing the CPU with spikes no higher than the mid 70s. Others will have different ideas of what is considered normal though. It all depends on your cooling solution and fan and/or pump speed.


I am actually planning to use it for working with DAW, which requires low latency and has constant load on all cores, though not 100%. I'd prefer never shut it down, so it's fair to expect 30-40% load all the time. Another thing is experimenting with trading and optimizing strategies parameters, which is all-core load for a week or so 24h/day. Probably for the first thing higher frequency is preferred, for the second one it can be decreased to avoid hitting 100 degrees with thermal throttling.

Overall, as I wrote above, I was confused by the temperature with stock CPU and that Thermalright air cooler, that's why wanted to figure out if it is normal, or not, and what I should expect. I even started to think about some AIO, like Fractal Design Celisus S36. Anyway, will see first if it's better now with the delidded CPU.
Quote:


> 4. (Where did 3 go?) Der8auer is a fantastic overclocker and knows his stuff. You can follow his guide if you want to, but really if you don't have a lot of experience, I would just set the multiplier to 51, the voltage to what the CPU is rated for (through SL) set the AVX offset to -2 and then back off the voltage by .01 each time... Testing for stability until you crash and then add .01 (or .02 if you want to be safe). From there you can start reading and watching videos to start understanding overclocking on a deeper level before you hit the more advanced options. I recommend reading up on voltage offsets.


#3 has already been answered - the question was around SL's specified voltage for 5.1 Ghz, which is quite high. Now I see that it's just how it was tested, and, by the matter of fact, probably can work with lower voltage.

Your suggestion is very useful, thanks for that. What about Asus's OC autotuning software? Is it crap?


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Thanks a lot for your replies!
> Got it. The reason I am asking is that I actually had a weird thing with this cooler and a stock 8700k. With even a relatively modest OC till 4.7 GHz for all cores it hit 95-100 degrees on CineBench. I even thought there is something wrong with the installation. I returned the CPU and ordered 5.1GHz delidded one from SL. Will try it early next week and really hope it will help. Maybe that was just a crappy CPU.
> I am actually planning to use it for working with DAW, which requires low latency and has constant load on all cores, though not 100%. I'd prefer never shut it down, so it's fair to expect 30-40% load all the time. Another thing is experimenting with trading and optimizing strategies parameters, which is all-core load for a week or so 24h/day. Probably for the first thing higher frequency is preferred, for the second one it can be decreased to avoid hitting 100 degrees with thermal throttling.
> 
> Overall, as I wrote above, I was confused by the temperature with stock CPU and that Thermalright air cooler, that's why wanted to figure out if it is normal, or not, and what I should expect. I even started to think about some AIO, like Fractal Design Celisus S36. Anyway, will see first if it's better now with the delidded CPU.
> #3 has already been answered - the question was around SL's specified voltage for 5.1 Ghz, which is quite high. Now I see that it's just how it was tested, and, by the matter of fact, probably can work with lower voltage.
> 
> Your suggestion is very useful, thanks for that. What about Asus's OC autotuning software? Is it crap?


As for the auto tuning, I never use it. It has to be made for the worse overclocking CPU there is, therefore it will pretty much overvolt everything. Der8auer's video is verry good. If your BIOS s set up right you can run at a lot lower voltage than SL shows. I bought a 5.2 8700K from SL. They rate it at 5.2 @ 1.425. I have it stable at 5.2 with 1.328V, and possibly could go lower. I can run AIDA with a high temp at about 63° on an AIO. You can maybe judge from those numbers what your cooler would do. I am not familiar with your cooler at all, so can't give any help there. I can say on another CPU I had a NH-D14 and it ran a little warmer than I liked. I replaced it with an H100, but temps were within about 3° of the D14, if that helps you.

SL does an excellent job with the deliding. I was absolutely shocked at how low temps were. Of course, this is my first delidded CPU, but still. I was planning on doing a custom loop. But after seeing the temps with an AIO, I just didn't see where it was necessary, especially given the cost.


----------



## Kunzopolis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> High MHz is not the only defining criterion for the memory performance. The memory performance is defined by 2 parameters: frequency and CAS latency.
> Frequency defines how many times per second the memory is "requested", and CAS latency defines how many cycles are needed to fulfill the request.
> 
> The math is very simple: you need to divide MHz by latency number, and thus, you will get the performance rating.
> 
> Per what I see at NewEgg, the best frequency for CAS=18 is 4000Mhz, which means 4000/18=222.222
> For CAS=19 the best you can have is 4600 MHz, which is crazy expensive (~$550 for 16Gb) and gives 242.10526316, and I am not sure about the motherboard's support for such a high frequency.
> More or less adequate price and performance is for CAS=19 and 4133MHz, which gives 217.52 for (~$300+ for 16Gb).
> 
> However, I personally went with CAS=14 and 3200MHz, which gives you perfect 3200/14=228.57 for just $230 per 16Gb, and with a set maximum of 64Gb. Stable, adequate cost, in QVL for the most of motherboards, and the top notch performance.


I'm taking notes for sure, I knew that CAS latency was important but I wasn't sure how to look at it on a qualitative basis.

I'd like to also thank all of the people who replied with input on this topic and I truly appreciate the data.

I will go with my preference of 2x16gb and pick a kit that balances frequency and CAS latency, and I'll balance my choice of motherboard accordingly.

I guess I also just realized that I've never really tried to exceed the frequency on a given memory kit -- most likely because i tend to be very focused on CPU overclocking -- but I might give that a shot at some point on this new build. (thanks for the heads up Essenbe)

again, thanks


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kunzopolis*
> 
> I still haven't picked up a motherboard for my 8700k just yet, can some people who have fully set up their systems share their memory/motherboard setups and what speeds they are getting on their RAM and CPU?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that I generally prefer to go 2x16gb for my RAM configuration, however I've noticed the following things:
> 
> 
> The highest speed 2x16GB from G-Skill or Corsair that I've found seems to top out at 4,000Mhz
> From my reading, 2x16GB modules will top out a lot lower than the 2x8GB variants and not OC as much. Not sure where your priorities lie, but I would take the 2x8GB if overclocking is your thing and you do not need the extra ram.
> 
> Quite a few of the z370 mobo seem to cap out around 4133mhz, but not all (the Asus APEX has 4500mhz kits on the QVL) -> ASUS Maximus X APEX QVL
> I would not worry too much about the QVL and more on what the track record of the ram is. Regardless of whatever kit you buy, you will need to tune the memory to get any decent results. There is too much left on the table when relying solely on XMP set it and forget it - not to mention the poorly default voltages XMP can apply.
> 
> Corsair ram with equal configuration and timings seem to be the same price or higher(usually higher..) at virtually every single bracket... so I guess I'll just keep pretending that G-Skill is the only ram on the planet. It has never done me wrong and I'm like 4 builds deep of using only G-Skill, please let me know if I should consider another brand.
> Same thoughts, Corsair has a high premium, but they do look nice. I've had experience with their 3200C14 Special Edition Blackout kit and it did not clock anywhere close to my GSKILL 3200C14 modules.
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of using 2x8gb per se, but I think if I bought, e.g. Apex board + 2x8gb 4400mhz g-skill and I only ended up getting somewhere between ~4,000-4,100mhz It would feel like a waste.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I've been thinking about as I shop around for motherboards and ram. Please share your thoughts and/or experiences with me.
> 
> If anyone believes that I've said something that is way off the mark please give me your feedback.


Hi there, 8700K + Apex + 16GB 4400/C19 kit chiming in.

I'm able to tune this memory to 4200MHz and C17 speeds and stability tested with 1hr GSAT as pictured below. This was done with low 4700MHz CPU core & 4400MHz Cache speeds to isolate the ram only. I will be delidding the CPU and overclocking the Core/Cache shortly.

My reasoning for the 8700K + Apex + 4400C19 kit was solely to push the overclocking limits of the z370 platform and game at 240Hz.


----------



## DerBademeister

Hi guys, I've finally become a member here after pulling the trigger on a 5.2 GHz 8700k from Silicone Lottery.

So my new setup is most likely going to look like this:

The 8700k, cooled with a Noctua NH-D15S for the time being. As someone who knows jack squat about custom water-cooling and who's not impressed with AiO setups so far, I'm keeping an eye out on some benchmarks for EK Water Blocks new Phoenix AiOs.
GTX980ti holdover from my last system, to be replaced with a Volta next year
Asus ROG Maximus X Hero
Intel Optane 900P 480GB SSD for OS and games
Fractal Define R5 midi-tower
*So here's my question*: I have a set of unused, unopened G.Skill Trident Zs from a previous, never finished build lying around here: 4x8 GB, DDR4-3333, CL16-18-18-38. The motherboard specifications allow for DDR4-4133, though I've read from users who bought that RAM that it becomes unstable anywhere between 3500 and 4000 MHz (future BIOS updates might fix that).

When used for gaming, would there even be a tangible performance gain with the 4133s over the 3333s? They're insanely expensive at 650 bucks, have slower latency at CL19-21-21-41, and would cost me about net 300 bucks if I get a good price for the 3333s on ebay. Bottom line: *Is this even worth upgrading, or should I just keep the 3333s*?


----------



## Psychocipher

For yall wondering about ram latency. You need to calculate true latency by taking the cl number x 2000 then dividing by your speed. A cl14 3200 kit for example has a true latency of 8.75ns. You will find little difference in latency between a cl14 and cl16 kit of the same speed and some higher speed kits have about the same true latency as the 3200 cl14 kits


----------



## Sancus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> When used for gaming, would there even be a tangible performance gain with the 4133s over the 3333s? They're insanely expensive at 650 bucks, have slower latency at CL19-21-21-41, and would cost me about net 300 bucks if I get a good price for the 3333s on ebay. Bottom line: *Is this even worth upgrading, or should I just keep the 3333s*?


I'd argue RAM speeds are pretty much noise for gaming on Coffee Lake. There are some edge case games where it matters a little(like Hitman) but even there, speeds above 3200 don't show differences outside any reasonable margin of error.

Look at the numbers yourself: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7_8700K_Coffee_Lake_Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html

If you have to go down to a 720p benchmark and even then only the rare unusual game shows a meaningful difference I don't see the point in spending hundreds of dollars extra on the absolute fastest kits. RAM speed is something you worry about after every other component, and if you aren't upgrading your video card to the newest option the day it's available every year, you could have spent RAM money on that and gotten better results.


----------



## theunknownkid

Hey All,
Reporting my purchase. I took the plunge and got the 8700k 5.3ghz version that went up about 2 weeks ago.
The cpu was literally doing 5.3ghz at 1.330 volts, so now i had to go to 5.4ghz and currently stable at 1.41 volts, avx offset 2, max temp 75.
Testing:
Cinebench
P95 version 26.6
asus real bench
Setup:
asus maximus hero x (wifi)
2x 8gb trident rbg 4266mhz mem (running at 4000)
strix 1080ti
custom loop


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theunknownkid*
> 
> Hey All,
> Reporting my purchase. I took the plunge and got the 5.3ghz version that went up about 2 weeks ago.
> The cpu was literally doing 5.3ghz at 1.330 volts, so now i had to go to 5.4ghz and currently stable at 1.41 volts, avx offset 2, max temp 75.
> Testing:
> Cinebench
> P95 version 26.6
> asus real bench
> Setup:
> asus maximus hero x (wifi)
> 2x 8gb trident rbg 4266mhz mem (running at 4000)
> strix 1080ti
> custom loop


Wow. Extremely impressive.


----------



## iinversion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theunknownkid*
> 
> Hey All,
> Reporting my purchase. I took the plunge and got the 8700k 5.3ghz version that went up about 2 weeks ago.
> The cpu was literally doing 5.3ghz at 1.330 volts, so now i had to go to 5.4ghz and currently stable at 1.41 volts, avx offset 2, max temp 75.
> Testing:
> Cinebench
> P95 version 26.6
> asus real bench
> Setup:
> asus maximus hero x (wifi)
> 2x 8gb trident rbg 4266mhz mem (running at 4000)
> strix 1080ti
> custom loop


I had pretty much the same experience with a 5.2GHz bin. Does 5.3 @ 1.41 w/ -2 AVX offset. Passed 8hr prime and realbench. Amazing binning.


----------



## newls1

so im confused.. ive been waiting for the 5.0ghz bin to get back in stock but all his voltages for that bin are 1.4v.. so are you saying that the chip can do 5ghz with less then 1.4v???


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newls1*
> 
> so im confused.. ive been waiting for the 5.0ghz bin to get back in stock but all his voltages for that bin are 1.4v.. so are you saying that the chip can do 5ghz with less then 1.4v???


We have to leave in some headroom in order to guarantee stability.

We'll have more 8700Ks coming in on Tuesday so they should start popping up on the site Tuesday evening. We are no longer restricted on 8700K inventory coming in, so 8700Ks should start being in stock consistently starting next week.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> 1. That Thermalright performs as well as a lot of aio water coolers. It would do just fine. Voltage is all luck of the draw. For instance, I purchased an 8700k which is guaranteed to run at 5Ghz @1.4v. It can actually run at 5Ghz with 1.33v and is rock solid stable. If I back it down to 4.9Ghz I can get close to 1.3v.


Well... Appeared that it doesn't.
I received my 5.1GHz CPU from SL and tested it with Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT air cooler.
The picture is is the same as with the stock CPU if not worse. Even 4.9 GHz with 1.35V hit 100 degrees and is not stable in CineBench.
Looks like I'll have to invest into AIO and throw this Thermalcrap out of the window.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Well... Appeared that it doesn't.
> I received my 5.1GHz CPU from SL and tested it with Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT air cooler.
> The picture is is the same as with the stock CPU if not worse. Even 4.9 GHz with 1.35V hit 100 degrees and is not stable in CineBench.
> Looks like I'll have to invest into AIO and throw this Thermalcrap out of the window.


Mind taking a pic of your CPU with the thermal compound still on it after removing the cooler?


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> Mind taking a pic of your CPU with the thermal compound still on it after removing the cooler?


Sure!
Hm, weird picture. Doesn't look like it has full contact, not sure why, as it was properly fastened.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> Mind taking a pic of your CPU with the thermal compound still on it after removing the cooler?


You are a genius, man! Thanks for the hint!









To make sure the surfaces are in touch I applied the compound on both the cooler and the CPU. The results is astonishing: max 83 degrees on CineBench for 5Ghz, which sounds much more reasonable 
Actually, I've tried to redo this stuff a couple of times before, but the result was the same, that's why I was so harsh. Probably I've done it right this time.

Overall set up experience with this cooler is kinda weird, as the cooler platform is larger than the CPU, and it has some looseness/variability on where you position the platform comparing to the CPU. I tend to do it as aligned to center as possible, but you never know.


----------



## newls1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We have to leave in some headroom in order to guarantee stability.
> 
> We'll have more 8700Ks coming in on Tuesday so they should start popping up on the site Tuesday evening. We are no longer restricted on 8700K inventory coming in, so 8700Ks should start being in stock consistently starting next week.


awesome to hear that... thanks


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Sure!
> Hm, weird picture. Doesn't look like it has full contact, not sure why, as it was properly fastened.


Dude, that's 3x more paste than I would use. You just need a little of it to fill down the spots that aren't leveled up corretly. Use 2-3x less paste and tighten each corner by a bit till you cant tighten it more with your fingers.


----------



## Essenbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Dude, that's 3x more paste than I would use. You just need a little of it to fill down the spots that aren't leveled up corretly. Use 2-3x less paste and tighten each corner by a bit till you cant tighten it more with your fingers.


And if I understood you correctly, there should be no looseness when the cooler is installed. The cooler should be tight.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

We will actually have some more 8700Ks going up starting tonight.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Some stock is up.


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> You are a genius, man! Thanks for the hint!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To make sure the surfaces are in touch I applied the compound on both the cooler and the CPU. The results is astonishing: max 83 degrees on CineBench for 5Ghz, which sounds much more reasonable
> Actually, I've tried to redo this stuff a couple of times before, but the result was the same, that's why I was so harsh. Probably I've done it right this time.
> 
> Overall set up experience with this cooler is kinda weird, as the cooler platform is larger than the CPU, and it has some looseness/variability on where you position the platform comparing to the CPU. I tend to do it as aligned to center as possible, but you never know.


I'm glad that helped a bit.







Yea, it looks like you had an overabundance of thermal paste. Here's what I do. Clean the cpu and cooler contact areas very well. Put a dot of thermal paste centered on the CPU lid. The amount should be more than a grain of rice but slightly less than a pea. You want the cooler to be lined up correctly so you don't smear the paste all over while placing the cooler on the CPU (causes air bubbles). After placing the cooler on the CPU tighten the screws down gently in a X pattern. So left top corner, bottom right corner, bottom left corner, top right corner. After gently tightening the screws in an X pattern, go back an tighten the screws a little bit more (not too much). Enough to make the cooler feel very secure with NO play (looseness). The cooler should be very snug.

Your temps look better but I think you could drop them another few degrees.

If you are using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut... you can disregard the above directions as I have had MUCH better luck spreading Kryonaut on the CPU by hand instead of letting the CPU cooler spread it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Essenbe*
> 
> And if I understood you correctly, there should be no looseness when the cooler is installed. The cooler should be tight.


This is correct.


----------



## DiscoEST

What % of 8700Ks hit 5.3ghz


----------



## fixall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiscoEST*
> 
> What % of 8700Ks hit 5.3ghz


3% going by SL's testing.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fixall*
> 
> I'm glad that helped a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, it looks like you had an overabundance of thermal paste. Here's what I do.
> ...
> If you are using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut... you can disregard the above directions as I have had MUCH better luck spreading Kryonaut on the CPU by hand instead of letting the CPU cooler spread it.


I believe my initial photo was a little bit misleading. I actually applied rise-size amount, but spread it with the use of a credit card, as suggested in the Thermalright's manual, so it looked like it's a lot of it over there.

However, to experiment I tried to reapply it with putting in the center only:



By the way, I am using MX-4 paste.

To check how it affected the temps, I measured Max temperature during Cinebench before and after reapplication.
Before:


After:


So, didn't help, unfortunately. Maybe spreading it over the surface is not a bad idea.

Anyway, I ordered Fractal Design Celsius S36 and will test how it works in a day or two.

One small update: I tuned the voltage and frequency, and the system works stable on 5GHz all cores with 1.385V for 1 hour testing on Prime95 (AVX turned off). Temps are upper 80-s and lower 90-s.
Probably should work on 5.1Ghz with higher voltage (it was marked as 5.1Ghz by SL), but it'll be too hot. Will try it with the liquid cooler.
Quote:


> After placing the cooler on the CPU tighten the screws down gently in a X pattern.


Yeah, but unfortunately this cooler has mounting only in one axis, so you have to make sure that this mounting crosses the sink right in the center.

This is the variability you have to be cautious about:


----------



## DerBademeister

I'd suggest swapping the cheaper MX-4 for Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. I've been using it since early 2016 instead of MX-4 and its well worth the few bucks more (a miniscule portion of any PC budget and not where one should skimp). I've also used nothing but air coolers in all my systems. The QVL describes "Any AIO watercooler 240mm or greater", yet after looking at plenty of benchmarks for my new system (I was eyeing the Corsair Hydro H115i, the larger successor to the H100i SL is using for its test environment) I've found that AiO aren't better than the best air coolers - they're just louder, more expensive and don't last as long. With a top of the line air cooler (like Noctua NH-D15 or D15-S) you should be able to reach the same stable overclocking frequency as SL did during binning tests. As for correct thermal paste application, 



 offers a few common methods. I've been using the X-shaped method since swichting to Kryonaut and haven't had any issues with it yet. It's a lot less hassle than trying to evenly "paint" the heatspreader with a credit card.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> I'd suggest swapping the cheaper MX-4 for Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. I've been using it since early 2016 instead of MX-4 and its well worth the few bucks more (a miniscule portion of any PC budget and not where one should skimp). I've also used nothing but air coolers in all my systems. The QVL describes "Any AIO watercooler 240mm or greater", yet after looking at plenty of benchmarks for my new system (I was eyeing the Corsair Hydro H115i, the larger successor to the H100i SL is using for its test environment) I've found that AiO aren't better than the best air coolers - they're just louder, more expensive and don't last as long. With a top of the line air cooler (like Noctua NH-D15 or D15-S) you should be able to reach the same stable overclocking frequency as SL did during binning tests. As for correct thermal paste application,
> 
> 
> 
> offers a few common methods. I've been using the X-shaped method since swichting to Kryonaut and haven't had any issues with it yet. It's a lot less hassle than trying to evenly "paint" the heatspreader with a credit card.


I'll try that, thanks!

Actually my Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT has equal (or better) performance than Noctua NH-D15 per different reviews, e.g. this one.

As for the air cooler vs AIO liquid... I anyway pulled the trigger on the Fractal Design Celsius S36, so will compare them both and will share the results here.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> I'll try that, thanks!
> 
> Actually my Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT has equal (or better) performance than Noctua NH-D15 per different reviews, e.g. this one.
> 
> As for the air cooler vs AIO liquid... I anyway pulled the trigger on the Fractal Design Celsius S36, so will compare them both and will share the results here.


I am also using the S-36 on a build, it's a really nice low-noise unit with no redundant "monitoring" software or hideous RGB.

FWIW- I removed it's stock thermal tape compound with 91% isopropyl alcohol & used kryonaut instead.
Supposedly that knocks a degree or two off the temps, but I didn't a/b it.

Also,I used unwaxed dental floss soaked in isopropyl to remove the old single 120mm corsair H cooler waterblock - as it had been practically _fused_ to the cpu.

Since that happened, I swore that I'd always over-cool my cpu's


----------



## DerBademeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> I'll try that, thanks!
> 
> Actually my Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT has equal (or better) performance than Noctua NH-D15 per different reviews, e.g. this one.
> 
> As for the air cooler vs AIO liquid... I anyway pulled the trigger on the Fractal Design Celsius S36, so will compare them both and will share the results here.


Seems like both perform roughly equally, or at least within the margin of error of each other, with yours having a slight edge. That's possibly as good an air cooler as you're going to get, so the Kryonaut might do the trick and shave off a few more degrees.

I'm looking forward to your comparison with the S36 - that's as big as AiOs get, so there should at least be a few degrees of difference to the air cooler (which you will probably pay for with a louder system). In that regard it has to be mentioned that you could also swap the air cooler fan with a higher RPM fan - more noise, but might also shave off the odd degree or two and bring it on par with the AiO at far less cost.

As someone who's a total watercooling noob I've been looking out for benchmarks and reviews of EK Waterblocks new Phoenix AiO solutions - but so far, I've found nothing on various hardware sites yet. This looks like a simplified version of their custom water cooling systems built just for noobs like me - but it's also almost as expensive as the custom loops, and thus considerable more expensive than the AiOs from Corsair and the other mainstream brands. A 360mm CPU loop costs 250 Euros, compared to about 160 Euros for Corsairs H115i (with the ****ty fans swapped for some good ones included).

One other area that affects cooling and shouldn't be discounted is the case. Since I don't need the optical bay and a ****load of HDD bays, I'll be swapping my Fractal Define R5 for their Define S model. It's basically the same case with the same dimensions, except all the bays are missing and to compensate for it, you get 3 HDD and 2 SSD slots behind the motherboard - which is more than enough for me. The main compartment of the case is thus free of any interference and can provide plenty of straight airflow, since three 140mm fans (or a 420mm radiator) can be installed in the front of the case.

If someone benches the Phoenix AiO and it offers a noticable improvement over my air cooler, I'm planning to put the 360 in front as an intake CPU cooler and will get a watercooled Volta from Caseking once it becomes available next year - their watercooled 1080ti showed an 8% performance gain over a great air cooled model like Asus Strix OC in a Hardwareluxx benchmark). That radiator should (hopefully) fit as an outtake under the top of the case. If it works out that way, it'll probably be as close to the performance of a full-fledged self-built custom loop as one can get, and I just lack the expertise and tools to built such a custom loop safely on my own.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> One other area that affects cooling and shouldn't be discounted is the case. Since I don't need the optical bay and a ****load of HDD bays, I'll be swapping my Fractal Define R5 for their Define S model.


I just saw that the Fractal design Define *R6* Review by Hardware Canucks just dropped,



I was really impressed with the R5 Silent case fit function & design in the build I just did.


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> I've also used nothing but air coolers in all my systems. The QVL describes "Any AIO watercooler 240mm or greater", yet after looking at plenty of benchmarks for my new system (I was eyeing the Corsair Hydro H115i, the larger successor to the H100i SL is using for its test environment) I've found that AiO aren't better than the best air coolers - they're just louder, more expensive and don't last as long. With a top of the line air cooler (like Noctua NH-D15 or D15-S) you should be able to reach the same stable overclocking frequency as SL did during binning tests.


My thinking exactly about air vs water!

Air is cheaper, quieter, more reliable, and usually cooler than any AIO water cooler. If you're not doing an expensive custom water loop to gain every degree possible, then I don't see the point of using water. I don't know why SL doesn't have the NH-D15 on their QVL.

I know the chance of leakage is low, but personally, I don't want water hoses and fittings in my expensive PC. Good AIOs are "warrantied" for 5 years, but MTBF usually doesn't assume 24/7 operation, so with my luck the pump would fail a year or two. I've never heard of a heat-pipe failing or leaking.


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> I just saw that the Fractal design Define *R6* Review by Hardware Canucks just dropped,
> I was really impressed with the R5 Silent case fit function & design in the build I just did.


The R6 looks great, but I think I'll still go with the R5 Blackout with no window. I want it as quiet and free of lights as possible. My PC sits under my desk as far away as possible. I can't imagine trying to game with a PC buzzing away on the desk next to me and RGB LED lights shining in my face. Who does that, honestly?


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We will actually have some more 8700Ks going up starting tonight.


Too late!

I got tired of waiting and bought a 1080Ti instead.









Hope I get some cash for Christmas. LOL!


----------



## Bothand Nether

I used the R5 on My wife's Hero/Protools rig, what a joy to build, honestly.
We put an evga GTX 1060 6gb because the fan only turns on under load, which is never.
The EVGA nova 750T2 power supply also has a switch to have the fan only active under load as well.
The R5 case Q.A.F. - almost as quiet as my rig.
I have a mountain mods UFO U2 tucked into a studio rackmount iso cube so rgb is kinda useless for us, too.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> I used the R5 on My wife's Hero/Protools rig, what a joy to build, honestly.
> We put an evga GTX 1060 6gb because the fan only turns on under load, which is never.
> The EVGA nova 750T2 power supply also has a switch to have the fan only active under load as well.
> The R5 case Q.A.F. - almost as quiet as my rig.
> I have a mountain mods UFO U2 tucked into a studio rackmount iso cube so rgb is kinda useless for us, too.


It's almost my rig as well









Silent case - Define R5, silent video card - EVGA GTX 1060 6G SSC, silent PSU - EVGA 850 T2, and no HDD (M.2 SSD instead), the loudest thing is CPU cooler, which is also silent most of the time.
With 64 Gb RAM and overclocked 8700k this is just a silent monster, which is perfect for home audio production.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> My thinking exactly about air vs water!
> 
> Air is cheaper, quieter, more reliable, and usually cooler than any AIO water cooler. If you're not doing an expensive custom water loop to gain every degree possible, then I don't see the point of using water. I don't know why SL doesn't have the NH-D15 on their QVL.
> 
> I know the chance of leakage is low, but personally, I don't want water hoses and fittings in my expensive PC. Good AIOs are "warrantied" for 5 years, but MTBF usually doesn't assume 24/7 operation, so with my luck the pump would fail a year or two. I've never heard of a heat-pipe failing or leaking.


Ive had a nh-d15 and i can tell you its not quieter and cooler than my watercooled system. A nh-d15 will have a harder time cooling a 5.2ghz 7700k than a good aio that can run the fans at slower speeds to achieve the same cooling as an air cooler. Im using the nf-f14 fans in my system, these on a radiator will mop the floor with a nh-d15 all day anyday. To fit all ram when using the nh-d15 you have to remove one of the fans, killing the performance where as a aio you can use whatever ram you want without fitment issues. Aios put less pressure on the cpu and provide great cooling in smaller form factor builds where a big air cooler wont fit. Plus who likes the color of those fans anyways. Me personally i dont see the point in spending hundreds and even thousands on a pc build just to hide everything behind a windowless panel and put it on the floor in the corner,choking air flow and making dust more of an issue. Watercooling is a risk just like overclocking is a risk.


----------



## DerBademeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psychocipher*
> 
> Ive had a nh-d15 and i can tell you its not quieter and cooler than my watercooled system. A nh-d15 will have a harder time cooling a 5.2ghz 7700k than a good aio that can run the fans at slower speeds to achieve the same cooling as an air cooler. Im using the nf-f14 fans in my system, these on a radiator will mop the floor with a nh-d15 all day anyday. To fit all ram when using the nh-d15 you have to remove one of the fans, killing the performance where as a aio you can use whatever ram you want without fitment issues. Aios put less pressure on the cpu and provide great cooling in smaller form factor builds where a big air cooler wont fit. Plus who likes the color of those fans anyways. Me personally i dont see the point in spending hundreds and even thousands on a pc build just to hide everything behind a windowless panel and put it on the floor in the corner,choking air flow and making dust more of an issue. Watercooling is a risk just like overclocking is a risk.


The NH-D15*S* doesn't get in the way of RAM sticks, costs the same as the D-15 and has virtually the same performance. It's just a bit taller due to the elevated fins, so might not fit in slim cases.

If you take a look at this extensive test, the Fractal Design S36 AiO performs just about 2-3 degrees better than the D-15S. The EKWB Predator was hands down the best AiO in that test, its two-fan model beats the three-fan S36, so I've decided to wait for some benchmarks of its successor (Phoenix) and may pull the trigger on that one. If the 280mm Predator offers about a 5 degree difference to the Noctua NH-D15S, I imagine the 360mm Phoenix may offer an even better performance - it'll just be a very tight fit in my case, but that would have been the issue with the cheaper Fractal S36 as well. Both are over 40 cm in length, which is a tight fit both for front intake and top exhaust configurations in most midi towers.

I actually briefly considered getting the S36 just now, to compare it to the NH-D15S, as it's available for just 90 bucks instead of the regular 120 bucks today. If you have to replace the fans though, say with NF-F12 frm Noctua to get a noticable improvement over the air cooler, that would add another 70 bucks for three fans and then you're almost in range of the more expensive EK Waterblocks AiOs anyway.

It's like you said: With a system that costs several grands in total, skimping on a hundred or two hundred bucks more for the best cooling doesn't make sense. I just want to make sure that I get an AiO which tangibly improves performance, and 65 degrees under load with a Fractal or Corsair AiO vs 67 degrees under load with the air cooler is just not what I'd call a significant enough improvement.


----------



## Psychocipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> The NH-D15*S* doesn't get in the way of RAM sticks, costs the same as the D-15 and has virtually the same performance. It's just a bit taller due to the elevated fins, so might not fit in slim cases.
> 
> If you take a look at this extensive test, the Fractal Design S36 AiO performs just about 2-3 degrees better than the D-15S. The EKWB Predator was hands down the best AiO in that test, its two-fan model beats the three-fan S36, so I've decided to wait for some benchmarks of its successor (Phoenix) and may pull the trigger on that one. If the 280mm Predator offers about a 5 degree difference to the Noctua NH-D15S, I imagine the 360mm Phoenix may offer an even better performance - it'll just be a very tight fit in my case, but that would have been the issue with the cheaper Fractal S36 as well. Both are over 40 cm in length, which is a tight fit both for front intake and top exhaust configurations in most midi towers.
> 
> I actually briefly considered getting the S36 just now, to compare it to the NH-D15S, as it's available for just 90 bucks instead of the regular 120 bucks today. If you have to replace the fans though, say with NF-F12 frm Noctua to get a noticable improvement over the air cooler, that would add another 70 bucks for three fans and then you're almost in range of the more expensive EK Waterblocks AiOs anyway.
> 
> It's like you said: With a system that costs several grands in total, skimping on a hundred or two hundred bucks more for the best cooling doesn't make sense. I just want to make sure that I get an AiO which tangibly improves performance, and 65 degrees under load with a Fractal or Corsair AiO vs 67 degrees under load with the air cooler is just not what I'd call a significant enough improvement.


If your looking for price/performance then aios are not for you, its deff for an enthusist id say aios are like having alot of the intel cpus, yeah performance wise they are better and overclock alot better than amd however you do pay for the priviledge. Check out the evga clc 240 and 280, very good reviews, I did see the 240 going for $90 off newegg.


----------



## markm75

Can anyone point me to the current guide or maybe quick tips on a few settings to change starting out for the i7-8700k + Maximus Hero board?


----------



## Sancus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> The QVL describes "Any AIO watercooler 240mm or greater", yet after looking at plenty of benchmarks for my new system (I was eyeing the Corsair Hydro H115i, the larger successor to the H100i SL is using for its test environment) I've found that AiO aren't better than the best air coolers - they're just louder, more expensive and don't last as long. With a top of the line air cooler (like Noctua NH-D15 or D15-S) you should be able to reach the same stable overclocking frequency as SL did during binning tests.


Heatsink testing is hard. Most review places just do a stock load and "overclocked load" without specifying how much thermal load they're actually putting on anything. Anandtech at least does a little better with specific loads ranging from 60W to 350W.

If you compare an air cooler test bank at 200W load to an AIO test bank at 200W load you can see that the NH-D15 and equivalent gigantic air coolers do perform as well or better than most 240mm AIOs. However, 280mm beats the NH-D15. Other sites do show 360mm ones like the Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate beating the Cooler Master Nepton 280L as well, which is the best performing one anandtech lists. It isn't true that the best air coolers are as good as the best AIOs -- a well-implemented 280mm or 360mm radiator is going to beat the best air cooler and by a significant margin at higher thermal loads. Not all 280mm/360mm AIOs are well-implemented though.

I suspect the reason Silicon Lottery just suggests a 240mm AIO is because you get a reliable amount of cooling from these units, since almost all are actually just manufactured by Asetek, and they are mounted to the outside of a case. Air coolers all have varying performance and are also subject to how warm it is inside your case, so you need to make sure you have adequate ventilation. QVLs on the other hand list things that "just work". Silicon Lottery lists components that they CAN GUARANTEE they are sure will allow people to achieve the frequencies they did. It's hard to guarantee the performance of an air cooler.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *markm75*
> 
> Can anyone point me to the current guide or maybe quick tips on a few settings to change starting out for the i7-8700k + Maximus Hero board?


Here is one for Kaby lake, principles are the same for Coffee http://edgeup.asus.com/2017/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide/


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sancus*
> 
> Heatsink testing is hard. Most review places just do a stock load and "overclocked load" without specifying how much thermal load they're actually putting on anything. Anandtech at least does a little better with specific loads ranging from 60W to 350W.
> 
> If you compare an air cooler test bank at 200W load to an AIO test bank at 200W load you can see that the NH-D15 and equivalent gigantic air coolers do perform as well or better than most 240mm AIOs. However, 280mm beats the NH-D15. Other sites do show 360mm ones like the Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate beating the Cooler Master Nepton 280L as well, which is the best performing one anandtech lists. It isn't true that the best air coolers are as good as the best AIOs -- a well-implemented 280mm or 360mm radiator is going to beat the best air cooler and by a significant margin at higher thermal loads. Not all 280mm/360mm AIOs are well-implemented though.
> 
> I suspect the reason Silicon Lottery just suggests a 240mm AIO is because you get a reliable amount of cooling from these units, since almost all are actually just manufactured by Asetek, and they are mounted to the outside of a case. Air coolers all have varying performance and are also subject to how warm it is inside your case, so you need to make sure you have adequate ventilation. QVLs on the other hand list things that "just work". Silicon Lottery lists components that they CAN GUARANTEE they are sure will allow people to achieve the frequencies they did. It's hard to guarantee the performance of an air cooler.


In the charts you linked, the Noctua NH-D15 air cooler beats the majority of the AIOs. In fact, with only 2 fans stock, the Noctua NH-D15 is within 3 degrees of the best performing Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate which has 3 fans. If they added a 3rd fan to the Noctua NH-D15, I'll bet the difference would drop to within 1 degree again.

I also think water cooling is no more reliable than air cooling. In fact, more things have an impact on the AIOs ability to cool. For instance, I wonder if these tests are run with a GPU under load dumping tons of hot air into the case? I wonder if the AIO is mounted in the front of the case where it takes in fresh air, or in the top of the case where it chokes on GPU exhaust?

As I said before, I just don't see a good reason for an AIO CPU cooler unless you are on the edge thermally and need that 1-3 more degrees of cooling. Most people simply are not pushing their system to the point where 3 degrees is going to make any difference in system stability, and if they are, they should install a custom loop, not an AIO.

Aesthetics is a valid reason to choose an AIO over air cooling, but I don't buy the improved cooling line, it just doesn't hold water.


----------



## Scotty99

AIO's are for looks and ease of installation. I have a be quiet dark rock pro 3 and a deepcool 240 ex and although i havent put them both on the same CPU im pretty confident the air cooler would win. Even tho the be quiet is probably the best combination of looks+cooling for a tower cooler, they just take up too much space in a PC that has so many other components designed around aesthetics.


----------



## Bothand Nether

While we are splitting degrees here, I noticed that nobody pointed out clogging & _ease of cleaning._
The Evga 280mm takes advantage of the removable dust filter on the front of our R5 case, and cools very well.

An easily accessible dust filter is a must for boxes that are hard to get to, or they don't get cleaned as often.
It takes the better part of an hour to pull our air-cooled work box out to clean the radiators & then re-attach all the cables because it's buried in a large workstation. (it has no dust/cathair filter) if a case has poor/negative airflow, the air cooler's fans will clog the radiators eventually.

That being said, our workstation's air unit has lasted longer than 2 Corsair AIO replacements on my gaming rig....I am on my 3rd AIO in 5 years, a Fractal Celsius S36.
Not going to buy a corsair unit ever again, the plastic was starting to break down after 2.5 years or so....I wouldn't trust any AIO after 2-3 years, tbh.

As far as quiet, replacing the fans is an option for both types of cooler, fractal has extra-silent fans for like 12 bucks on Newegg.

You want performance/reliability, build a custom water-cooled loop & put an eheim pump on it, they last for decades.
I have eheim pumps that are over 35 years old for my reeftanks, they are quiet & rated for many types of liquid.

Buy the fittings from a plumbing company unless you like burning cash...
Barbs & stainless steel hoseclamps>12 dollar compression fittings IMO









Also, it's kindof a waste to not use all the sensors on the Maximus X boards.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> If you take a look at this extensive test, the Fractal Design S36 AiO performs just about 2-3 degrees better than the D-15S. The EKWB Predator was hands down the best AiO in that test, its two-fan model beats the three-fan S36, so I've decided to wait for some benchmarks of its successor


For me personally the issue with Predator is that 2-3 degrees difference will never justify huge 5dB noise difference on 100% PWM compared to S36 ;-) Other than that, looks good.


----------



## Sancus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> In the charts you linked, the Noctua NH-D15 air cooler beats the majority of the AIOs. In fact, with only 2 fans stock, the Noctua NH-D15 is within 3 degrees of the best performing Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate which has 3 fans. If they added a 3rd fan to the Noctua NH-D15, I'll bet the difference would drop to within 1 degree again.


When you're talking about temps that are 20-25 degrees above ambient, 3 degrees is actually a pretty big difference. But for the mostpart, you're correct, there is not a significant performance advantage for AIOs over air coolers. However, if you're cooling an overclocked 7900X running heavy loads that is going to produce 250W+ of heat that 10-15% difference becomes pretty relevant.

In the mainstream, the main use of AIOs is definitely convenience, case compatibility, and reliable cooling. It's much easier to build a reasonably compact machine when you can put your CPU cooling somewhere other than tightly fixed just above your motherboard. The better air coolers are very space inefficient and depend on good case ventilation to perform well.


----------



## mouacyk




----------



## moon162612

I've decided to push a little bit more for performance and exchanged my SL's 8700k 5.1 to 5.2.
The new CPU is amazing, allowed me to run the system stable for 2h of Prime95 (no AVX) at 5.1GHz with 1.330V and temperatures 79-83 degrees with Le Grand Macho RT air cooling (still MX-4 paste, waiting for Kryonaut). Actually, with this awesome result I am not sure AIO S36 makes any sense now (I've just unpacked it, but thinking of returning).


----------



## Scotty99

Got my chip back today and the bios told me a "new cpu was installed, press f2 to perform setup". Should this be happening if they sent me back the cpu i sent to them?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Got my chip back today and the bios told me a "new cpu was installed, press f2 to perform setup". Should this be happening if they sent me back the cpu i sent to them?


Yes, that is normal.


----------



## Scotty99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Yes, that is normal.


Ok lol, just checkin.


----------



## Mooncheese

I just wanted to check in and thank Silicon Lottery for their service, their turn around was immediate, and my CPU is running like a charm!

Here's my recent build!


----------



## moon162612

Guys, as promised, here is my experiment around Air Cooling vs Liquid Cooling on a SL's 8700K 5.2GHz delidded CPU.
Hope this info will be useful for enthusiasts like me.

*What I tested*
*Test 1.* One of the best air coolers on the market - Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT with max TDP of 300W.
For the test I used MX4 compound.

*Test 2.* The same cooler, but with Kryonaut thermal compound.
*
Test 3.* Liquid cooler Fractal Design Celsius S36 with stock thermal compound.

*
Methodology:*
The CPU is configured with Vcore=1.33V and x51 ratio, which gives us 5.1GHz. AVX negative offset is 2.
I ran Small FFTs settings, as it generates most heat, and waited for 10 minutes with alarm clock, after that I reset "Core Temp 1.11" utility to start measuring Min and Max temperature from this point of time. Then waited for another 3 minutes, and made a screenshot.
Thus, I had Min and Max during this 3 mins period for well warmed up CPU.

I ran the test first in no AVX mode (5.1GHz) and then repeated the test in AVX mode (4.9GHz). AVX mode seems to be generating significantly more heat.

I calculated average min and max among all the CPU cores, and average between these two values as overall average CPU temperature.

Coolers tuned on on max all the time without any adaptive features.



*Test Results*

*Test 1.* 1) Air Cooler with MX4, no AVX.
Result: avr. min = 82.83, avr. max = 85.17, average temperature = *84*


2) Air Cooler with MX4, with AVX
The test crashed during measuring phase! I took a picture with my iphone because luckily the image froze on the screen.
Result (doesn't make sense, but anyway): avr. min = 94.33, avr. max = 97, average = *95.67*


*Test 2.* 1) Air Cooler with Kryonaut, no AVX
Result: avr. min = 79.17, avr. max = 82.83, average temperature = *81*


2) Air Cooler with Kryonaut, AVX load
Result: avr. min = 91.83, avr. max = 95.17, average = *93.5* (hey, what a black magic, decimal part of numbers are the same as in 1) ;-)).


*Test 3.*
1) Fractal Design S36 with stock thermal compound, no AVX.
Result: avr. min = 72.67, avr. max = 75.33, average temperature = *74*


2) Fractal Design S36 with stock thermal compound, with AVX.
Result: avr. min = 75.50, avr. max =78.50, average temperature = *77*


*Conclusions*

If you use aircooling, then Kryonaut is a way to go. Average performance is better by 3 degrees, impressive!

Liquid cooling is just a different league. The same room, the same machine, the same settings, and the same hands. The only difference is cooler, and the CPU is cooler by 10 and 7 degrees with no AVX, and by crazy 18.7 and 16.5 with AVX mode on.

Liquid cooler has LESS noise than air cooler. I tried to record it on my iphone, but due to automatic input level adaptation, on the recording they sound similar. As a matter of fact, air cooler has definitive mmmmmm sound in its noise on some mid-range frequency, which can clearly be heard, though not really loud due to very good sound isolation in my Define R5 case.
The liquid cooler is more like white noise (shhhhhh), like air conditioner, which is much better, and a little bit less loud than air cooler.
Overall even at max settings it's not that loud, so you can sleep in the same room, but I'll set up adaptive settings for sure to make it even better.
Sorry, air lovers, but I am jumping into liquid cooler's camp, though it was interesting experience ;-)


----------



## Scotty99

Im trying to figure out my temps too, and i am debating trying my air cooler lol.

I have a delidded 8700k from SL that i sent into them, after stress test (realbench) my cores vary from 81c to 85c with 1.344-1.36v with a deepcool 240ex. I have a feeling my results would be completely opposite of yours if i put my be quiet dark rock pro 3 on this chip, im also using kryonaut thermal paste.

85c as max temp with 1.344-1.36v is a bit high for a delidded chip on a 240 aio from what ive been reading.

Edit, just checked my paste application and it was perfect. Really at a loss as to why my delidded chip is getting to 85c in stress tests. Temp controlled room, one of the best ventilated cases on the market, a decent 240 aio cooler. If dark rock pro 3 wasnt such a pita to install i would swap it over from my AMD pc lol.


----------



## VeritronX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Guys, as promised, here is my experiment around Air Cooling vs Liquid Cooling on a SL's 8700K 5.2GHz delidded CPU.
> Hope this info will be useful for enthusiasts like me.
> 
> *What I tested*
> *Test 1.* One of the best air coolers on the market - Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT with max TDP of 300W.
> For the test I used MX4 compound.
> 
> *Test 2.* The same cooler, but with Kryonaut thermal compound.
> *
> Test 3.* Liquid cooler Fractal Design Celsius S36 with stock thermal compound.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Methodology:*
> The CPU is configured with Vcore=1.33V and x51 ratio, which gives us 5.1GHz. AVX negative offset is 2.
> I ran Small FFTs settings, as it generates most heat, and waited for 10 minutes with alarm clock, after that I reset "Core Temp 1.11" utility to start measuring Min and Max temperature from this point of time. Then waited for another 3 minutes, and made a screenshot.
> Thus, I had Min and Max during this 3 mins period for well warmed up CPU.
> 
> I ran the test first in no AVX mode (5.1GHz) and then repeated the test in AVX mode (4.9GHz). AVX mode seems to be generating significantly more heat.
> 
> I calculated average min and max among all the CPU cores, and average between these two values as overall average CPU temperature.
> 
> Coolers tuned on on max all the time without any adaptive features.
> 
> 
> 
> *Test Results*
> 
> *Test 1.* 1) Air Cooler with MX4, no AVX.
> Result: avr. min = 82.83, avr. max = 85.17, average temperature = *84*
> 
> 
> 2) Air Cooler with MX4, with AVX
> The test crashed during measuring phase! I took a picture with my iphone because luckily the image froze on the screen.
> Result (doesn't make sense, but anyway): avr. min = 94.33, avr. max = 97, average = *95.67*
> 
> 
> *Test 2.* 1) Air Cooler with Kryonaut, no AVX
> Result: avr. min = 79.17, avr. max = 82.83, average temperature = *81*
> 
> 
> 2) Air Cooler with Kryonaut, AVX load
> Result: avr. min = 91.83, avr. max = 95.17, average = *93.5* (hey, what a black magic, decimal part of numbers are the same as in 1) ;-)).
> 
> 
> *Test 3.*
> 1) Fractal Design S36 with stock thermal compound, no AVX.
> Result: avr. min = 72.67, avr. max = 75.33, average temperature = *74*
> 
> 
> 2) Fractal Design S36 with stock thermal compound, with AVX.
> Result: avr. min = 75.50, avr. max =78.50, average temperature = *77*
> 
> 
> *Conclusions*
> 
> If you use aircooling, then Kryonaut is a way to go. Average performance is better by 3 degrees, impressive!
> 
> Liquid cooling is just a different league. The same room, the same machine, the same settings, and the same hands. The only difference is cooler, and the CPU is cooler by 10 and 7 degrees with no AVX, and by crazy 18.7 and 16.5 with AVX mode on.
> 
> Liquid cooler has LESS noise than air cooler. I tried to record it on my iphone, but due to automatic input level adaptation, on the recording they sound similar. As a matter of fact, air cooler has definitive mmmmmm sound in its noise on some mid-range frequency, which can clearly be heard, though not really loud due to very good sound isolation in my Define R5 case.
> The liquid cooler is more like white noise (shhhhhh), like air conditioner, which is much better, and a little bit less loud than air cooler.
> Overall even at max settings it's not that loud, so you can sleep in the same room, but I'll set up adaptive settings for sure to make it even better.
> Sorry, air lovers, but I am jumping into liquid cooler's camp, though it was interesting experience ;-)


I've seen your posts in the air vs liquid thread and I think you might still be using too much thermal paste.. Ideally you want metal to metal contact, we use thermal paste to make sure there isn't any air between the two surfaces preventing the heat conducting between them, filling in the tiny scratches and imperfections on the two surfaces.

I think the reason the water cooler did so much better has more to do with the thermal paste being pre applied as a really thin layer, and if you redo it the same way / same amount you used with the air cooler the results will be much closer or the same, because getting the heat through the layer of thermal paste is the bottleneck at that point.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> I've seen your posts in the air vs liquid thread and I think you might still be using too much thermal paste.. Ideally you want metal to metal contact, we use thermal paste to make sure there isn't any air between the two surfaces preventing the heat conducting between them, filling in the tiny scratches and imperfections on the two surfaces.
> 
> I think the reason the water cooler did so much better has more to do with the thermal paste being pre applied as a really thin layer, and if you redo it the same way / same amount you used with the air cooler the results will be much closer or the same, because getting the heat through the layer of thermal paste is the bottleneck at that point.


While i personally doubt that paste application can result in _huge_ temp difference (+5°),
-maybe re-applying the paste will help.

As far as the S36 temps....I believe he used that rather thick stock compound tape stuff the S36 came with in his tests, I hate that stuff.

Not sure why he didn't remove that thick tape with alcohol on the S36.
Applying the kryonaut instead of that stock tape stuff would've probably provided less interference & lower temps.
(That was my experience with the S36, anyways)

Thanx for doing all that btw, much appreciated info.


----------



## VeritronX

Actually scratch that, I seem to be confusing people.. looked through the post history trying to find the posted pics and there's no posts in the thread I'm thinking of. must be another guy in almost the same situation who was also waiting for an s36 and going to post comparisons lol.

Edit.. i'm too tired from overworking for christmas.. it was this thread but i'm getting posts mixed up. found the pics but they actually don't look as bad as I remembered lol..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Sure!
> Hm, weird picture. Doesn't look like it has full contact, not sure why, as it was properly fastened.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeritronX*
> 
> Actually scratch that, I seem to be confusing people.. looked through the post history trying to find the posted pics and there's no posts in the thread I'm thinking of. must be another guy in almost the same situation who was also waiting for an s36 and going to post comparisons lol.
> 
> Edit.. i'm too tired from overworking for christmas.. it was this thread but i'm getting posts mixed up. found the pics but they actually don't look as bad as I remembered lol..


Ha-ha, I expected someone would write about my bad experience with thermal compound. Since that I watched several videos, practiced a little bit and measured the results. The best results I achieved with even spreading of the small amount of thermal compound is when I apply small 5 dots (one in center and 4 on the perimeter).

Since I expected this question, I made photos of the CPU after the test with MX-4 and the test with Kryonaut, please see the photos below.
If you think it's incorrect application of thermal compound, please let me know:
MX-4


Kryonaut


And for comparison, I referred to the 



 from der8auer, where he says it is the result of his preferred method:


My applications look more frugal, I would say, but keep in mind that small amount of the compound sticks to the sink when disassembled.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> While i personally doubt that paste application can result in _huge_ temp difference (+5°),
> -maybe re-applying the paste will help.
> 
> As far as the S36 temps....I believe he used that rather thick stock compound tape stuff the S36 came with in his tests, I hate that stuff.
> 
> Not sure why he didn't remove that thick tape with alcohol on the S36.
> Applying the kryonaut instead of that stock tape stuff would've probably provided less interference & lower temps.
> (That was my experience with the S36, anyways)
> 
> Thanx for doing all that btw, much appreciated info.


See, I was thinking about applying Kryonaut, but decided to do it only in case if the stock one would not show the proper results.
Ant the stock results are so amazing, that I just don't want to touch it to make it worse anyhow ;-)

E.g. with S36 I managed to push the CPU for 5.2 GHz with Vcore=1.385 (it just finished overnight testing), right now I am testing the same settings with AVX mode on. Btw, it's weirdly peaked up to 90 degrees for the first 3 minutes of test, then fell down to 79. Looks like Auto mode on S36 needs some time to figure out that something hot is coming.

Just finished one hour of testing (Core Temp reset ~20 mins ago, so no peak on the screen can be seen):


Happy holidays to every one!


----------



## festivepopcorn

I know the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 motherboard isn't on the QVL, but could it run the overclocks fine for the 8700k. I was looking on a thread here and it looks like this motherboard has a really good VRM.


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *festivepopcorn*
> 
> I know the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 motherboard isn't on the QVL, but could it run the overclocks fine for the 8700k. I was looking on a thread here and it looks like this motherboard has a really good VRM.


My motherboard, Gigabyte's Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 also isn't on their QVL and it's performing a bit better than what they binned it at.

They binned it at 5.1 GHz, -2 AVX, 1.412v and I'm doing 5.1 GHz, -1 AVX, 1.386v (as low as I can go with Dynamic Voltage, it was stable at 1.34v static but I didn't like running 1.34v 24/7)

That my temps don't exceed 60-65C while running Prime95 and 45-50C in gaming, and that I have a monoblock on the VRM/ MOSFET's probably helps:






Having a look at the previous page to see if anyone commented on my post here and seeing people flirting with 90C with air coolers, man just put that thing under a lot of water! 420 and 360 here and have a look at my temps in the second half of my video above


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Sorry, air lovers, but I am jumping into liquid cooler's camp, though it was interesting experience ;-)


Sorry, but your results contradict all professional testing which shows the best air coolers within a few degrees of the best AIO. It's possible you have a unique scenario where water performs much better, but it's more likely that you are introducing variables that you are not reporting.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> Sorry, but your results contradict all professional testing which shows the best air coolers within a few degrees of the best AIO. It's possible you have a unique scenario where water performs much better, but it's more likely that you are introducing variables that you are not reporting.


I kept fingers crossed during the air cooler test hoping that it would show good performance in order to return S36 to NewEgg without waisting ~$120 on it. That's the only variable I didn't introduce.

The only possible thing I can assume is that the sink is faulty, or there is some manufacturing defect, which could not be visually recognized. Otherwise, it is what it is. I spent half Saturday on it, and I have no interest in bull****ting neither myself nor people here.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> Sorry, but your results contradict all professional testing which shows the best air coolers within a few degrees of the best AIO. It's possible you have a unique scenario where water performs much better, but it's more likely that you are introducing variables that you are not reporting.
> 
> 
> 
> I kept fingers crossed during the air cooler test hoping that it would show good performance in order to return S36 to NewEgg without waisting ~$120 on it. That's the only variable I didn't introduce.
> 
> The only possible thing I can assume is that the sink is faulty, or there is some manufacturing defect, which could not be visually recognized. Otherwise, it is what it is. I spent half Saturday on it, and I have no interest in bull****ting neither myself nor people here.
Click to expand...

Maybe the room temperature was different when testing air then AIO?


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Maybe the room temperature was different when testing air then AIO?


Nope. The same room, even the same location of the case in the room. I specifically paid attention to not leave the case open, to guarantee the purity of the experiment (the case was closed and put in vertical position on the same place). If you take a look at the screenshots, I started around 1:30pm, and finished around 5pm. I didn't change anything between the test except for what is written.


----------



## Mooncheese

Large air coolers are nice in that the best of them (Noctua DH-15, DH-14, Phanteks PH-TC14PE) run about on par with 240mm AIO's BUT you don't have to worry about a pump failing, which will happen within say 5 years. There is a misconception that AIO's perform better. What is left out of most of the testing I've seen is heat soak, how liquid is rather resistant to heat accumulation, which can result in fantastic initial performance, but once that liquid heats up it takes just as long to cool down.

Other noteworthy distinctions, a large air cooler can impede airflow onto and over the backplate of your GPU, I noticed a 6C drop on my 780 Ti (much older build) when I jettisoned the Phanteks PH-TC14PE for an NZXT X41 AIO as the top fans were able to bring cold air directly down onto the GPU's backplate. Yes, the backplate isn't just aesthetic.

I would go with an air cooler for peace of mind and an AIO for looks (the infinity glass on the newer NZXT AIO's is really nice), as you can see more of your mobo, especially your RAM etc.. You also have to consider the pump noise from an AIO.

Having done all that, I say save and do a full loop. That was my logic this time around, in need of something for the CPU I was looking at NZXT's Kraken 62 and at $200, I mean, youre 1/3rd of the way towards a full loop, including a GPU block and a monoblock for your CPU's VRM / MOSFET.

50C under full AVX instruction set (Prime95, small FFT), 1.386v, 5.1 GHz -1 AVX offset. Youre not going to get that kind of performance (or looks, and acoustics, 40% fan RPM here) with anything else.


----------



## Scotty99

I can tune both of my systems to be pretty silent at full gaming load, but under stress test the aio needs to max fans while air cooler can sit at 1200 rpm and stay even cooler. Im actually debating swapping my intel rig into my H440 with my be quiet dark rock pro 3, coil whine from my 1080ti might be helped too.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> That's the only variable I didn't introduce.


Not to sound like a broken record, but did you use kryonaut paste on the S36, or the stock compound?
Pretty sure kryonaut on the fractal as well would give slightly better temps, that stock compound tape-stuff was quite thick on mine.

Also, the first three results on my youtube search seemed to show mixed results by model, but to paraphrase BITWIT
-the best AIO would Probably beat the best AC unit by slight to marginal temps.

Linus had AC favored in tests, but only used Corsair units, & no 360 or 420 units were tested.

HWCanucks had better AIO results with the first few units they tried, but a subsequent test showed AC winning.

Nobody mentioned what having high-velocity fans inside your case without intake or exhaust ports yields.
Personally would rather have all the dust get trapped in an easily removed external filter,rather than blowing though those huge heatsink structures.

FWIW, my cost of 3 AIO units in 5 years....is more than a decent custom loop would run.
Saltwater reef tank hardware is like that, too...best to buy quality once, than save a few bucks _initially_.

Next system will eventually get a custom water loop, as soon as the S36 starts go south.


----------



## markm75

Does anyone know why my 8700k is throttling down to 2 or ghz during any test. I've set avx to 0 and followed guides online for other settings. Nothing cures it. I'm on the maximus hero.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Not to sound like a broken record, but did you use kryonaut paste on the S36, or the stock compound?
> Pretty sure kryonaut on the fractal as well would give slightly better temps, that stock compound tape-stuff was quite thick on mine.


Not yet, and I am not sure it's worth to change the stock compound (though maybe it can help me with a couple of degrees).
Just take a look at the screenshot (did it 8 mins ago):


Test is ran in AVX mode, small FFT, frequency is 5.2GHz (-2 AVX), 1.38V, x50 cache, <80 degrees max temperature. The test has been running for 3.5 hours already with no significant thermal degradation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> What is left out of most of the testing I've seen is heat soak, how liquid is rather resistant to heat accumulation, which can result in fantastic initial performance, but once that liquid heats up it takes just as long to cool down.


My initial thoughts were the same, but I am running AIO tests for the whole day today, and do not see any thermal degradation.


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Not to sound like a broken record, but did you use kryonaut paste on the S36, or the stock compound?
> Pretty sure kryonaut on the fractal as well would give slightly better temps, that stock compound tape-stuff was quite thick on mine.
> 
> Also, the first three results on my youtube search seemed to show mixed results by model, but to paraphrase BITWIT
> -the best AIO would Probably beat the best AC unit by slight to marginal temps.
> 
> Linus had AC favored in tests, but only used Corsair units, & no 360 or 420 units were tested.
> 
> HWCanucks had better AIO results with the first few units they tried, but a subsequent test showed AC winning.
> 
> Nobody mentioned what having high-velocity fans inside your case without intake or exhaust ports yields.
> Personally would rather have all the dust get trapped in an easily removed external filter,rather than blowing though those huge heatsink structures.
> 
> FWIW, my cost of 3 AIO units in 5 years....is more than a decent custom loop would run.
> Saltwater reef tank hardware is like that, too...best to buy quality once, than save a few bucks _initially_.
> 
> Next system will eventually get a custom water loop, as soon as the S36 starts go south.


Temperature, power delivery or motherboard?


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Not yet, and I am not sure it's worth to change the stock compound (though maybe it can help me with a couple of degrees).
> Just take a look at the screenshot (did it 8 mins ago):
> 
> 
> Test is ran in AVX mode, small FFT, frequency is 5.2GHz (-2 AVX), 1.38V, x50 cache, <80 degrees max temperature. The test has been running for 3.5 hours already with no significant thermal degradation.
> My initial thoughts were the same, but I am running AIO tests for the whole day today, and do not see any thermal degradation.


How do you run Prime95 in AVX mode? I'm used to just selecting small FFT and starting the program.

Decent temps for an AIO and youre making me want to try for more uncore (currently at 45). Does more uncore help your CPU score in Firestrike?


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> How do you run Prime95 in AVX mode? I'm used to just selecting small FFT and starting the program.
> 
> Decent temps for an AIO and youre making me want to try for more uncore (currently at 45).


I am really impressed as well, and didn't expect such improving over air.
You can enable or disable AVX mode simply by editing _local.txt_ file in Prime95's directory. Put the following line in the file to disable AVX:
_CpuSupportsAVX=0_
and put =1 in order to enable.
I know some folks are messing around with older Prime95's version in order to run it with no AVX, because the older versions didn't support it, but I don't get why they do that when you simply can put a flag.

On the side note, looks like I finished with testing, which I ran for whole Sunday till today morning with different params.
It will be my final working settings, which I vigorously tested in both AVX and no AVX mode with different FFTs:
5.2GHz (AVX -2), 1.38V core, 1.38V dram, x50 cache

This probably will be the last results to be shared here.
I ran the test for almost 10 hours (01.48am-11.14am) with the following settings, and no AVX:

This is der8hours' recommended mode. Looks like it generates less heat than smaller FTTs I used to test with in my experiments, but I wanted to try everything to make sure the system is rock solid 


Temperatures stick to lower 70s after almost 10 hours, which is very nice.
Quote:


> Does more uncore help your CPU score in Firestrike?


Honestly? I didn't check every time I changed it, but decided to simply max it out to the highest stable value. I actually set up Min=42 and Max=50 to allow the system determine which one to use.
It's the latest Cinebench results (for the latest stable settings described above):

not sure for why I ran it with OpenGL as well, as it tests the graphics card, but let it be like this








But CPU = 1720 is rather nice.


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> How do you run Prime95 in AVX mode? I'm used to just selecting small FFT and starting the program.
> 
> Decent temps for an AIO and youre making me want to try for more uncore (currently at 45).
> 
> 
> 
> I am really impressed as well, and didn't expect such improving over air.
> You can enable or disable AVX mode simply by editing _local.txt_ file in Prime95's directory. Put the following line in the file to disable AVX:
> _CpuSupportsAVX=0_
> and put =1 in order to enable.
> I know some folks are messing around with older Prime95's version in order to run it with no AVX, because the older versions didn't support it, but I don't get why they do that when you simply can put a flag.
> 
> On the side note, looks like I finished with testing, which I ran for whole Sunday till today morning with different params.
> It will be my final working settings, which I vigorously tested in both AVX and no AVX mode with different FFTs:
> 5.2GHz (AVX -2), 1.38V core, 1.38V dram, x50 cache
> 
> This probably will be the last results to be shared here.
> I ran the test for almost 10 hours (01.48am-11.14am) with the following settings, and no AVX:
> 
> This is der8hours' recommended mode. Looks like it generates less heat than smaller FTTs I used to test with in my experiments, but I wanted to try everything to make sure the system is rock solid
> 
> 
> Temperatures stick to lower 70s after almost 10 hours, which is very nice.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Does more uncore help your CPU score in Firestrike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honestly? I didn't check every time I changed it, but decided to simply max it out to the highest stable value. I actually set up Min=42 and Max=50 to allow the system determine which one to use.
> It's the latest Cinebench results (for the latest stable settings described above):
> 
> not sure for why I ran it with OpenGL as well, as it tests the graphics card, but let it be like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But CPU = 1720 is rather nice.
Click to expand...

What version of prime95 are you using?


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> What version of prime95 are you using?


29.4, build 5


----------



## wingman99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> What version of prime95 are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> 29.4, build 5
Click to expand...

Is there anything new for the torture test in v29.4 build 5 coming from 28.10?


----------



## Mooncheese

Update:

I don't know what kind of cooling Silicon Lottery is using for their binning process, or maybe it's just the Texas heat (even in the dead of winter) but I'm getting away with 5.1 GHz ZERO Negative AVX offset, 1.386V DYNAMIC, and 48 Uncore whereas they binned it at 5.1 GHz -2 AVX Offset, 1.412V (presumably static). But it's good that they are somewhat conservative with their binning so as not to outrage customers, or Gigabyte's 10 Phase VRM and MOSFET temps of 40C really help with stability and may be a better board than the AS Rock Tai Chi that they are probably using.

Full specs follow:

5.1 GHz, 0 AVX Offset, 50 Uncore, Delidded by way of Silicon Lottery, Dynamic Voltage, Medium LLC, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7, EK Monoblock, EK SE 420, EK SE 360, Thermaltake View 71:

0 AVX Offset Update (I've done another 45 min of Prim95 with Uncore at 48, in this video it's only at 45).





Original post-build update, including temps, mining, acoustics, plumbing routing, and more:






It hit 170W at some point in Prime95:



http://imgur.com/b9oS2


Dynamic voltage means it doesn't do more than 1.0V while mining etc. I just run two separate power plans, with Balanced at Max Proc Power 99% to prevent it from doing 5.1 GHz at 1.39v, as I show in the video.

Bucking the conventional wisdom. You CAN have your cake and eat it too. You DON'T have to sit at 1.35+V 24/7.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/24193421?

Edit:

Oh and GTX 1080 Ti is doing 2050 MHz and +400 on the memory at 1.0v for the bench above. All of the above is stable, I've yet to experience a display driver failure or BSOD.

Keeping the GPU under 40C and the CPU under 50C (while gaming) helps tremendously in this regard.

Absolutely loving the full loop.


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wingman99*
> 
> Is there anything new for the torture test in v29.4 build 5 coming from 28.10?


I have no idea, but they have this info on their website: what's new.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mooncheese*
> 
> Update:
> 
> I don't know what kind of cooling Silicon Lottery is using for their binning process, or maybe it's just the Texas heat (even in the dead of winter) but I'm getting away with 5.1 GHz ZERO Negative AVX offset, 1.386V DYNAMIC, and 48 Uncore whereas they binned it at 5.1 GHz -2 AVX Offset, 1.412V (presumably static). But it's good that they are somewhat conservative with their binning so as not to outrage customers, or Gigabyte's 10 Phase VRM and MOSFET temps of 40C really help with stability and may be a better board than the AS Rock Tai Chi that they are probably using.
> 
> Full specs follow:
> 
> 5.1 GHz, 0 AVX Offset, 50 Uncore, Delidded by way of Silicon Lottery, Dynamic Voltage, Medium LLC, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 Gaming 7, EK Monoblock, EK SE 420, EK SE 360, Thermaltake View 71:


Amazing results! 0 AVX is very impressive. Per my understanding, these instructions are used a lot in audio software as well, so for me it is a very important factor.

By the way, how do you set up dynamics voltage? In BIOS of my motherboard (Asus X Hero) there are settings for Auto, Manual and Offset. I set up Manual for 1.38 and I see that it runs at 1.376V, which is fine for load, but I also would prefer to push it down a little bit during idle hours. When I tried to set up Auto, it shows some crazy voltages, e.g. 1.445, which is unacceptable. Not sure how it determines what to set and how to limit it by let's say 1.38V. I do not completely understand it, but maybe it's related to to the LLC settings, right? At the moment, it is set to 6 out of 7. In general, I use manual settings from 



 as a baseline.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> I have no idea, but they have this info on their website: what's new.
> Amazing results! 0 AVX is very impressive. Per my understanding, these instructions are used a lot in audio software as well, so for me it is a very important factor.
> 
> By the way, how do you set up dynamics voltage? In BIOS of my motherboard (Asus X Hero) there are settings for Auto, Manual and Offset. I set up Manual for 1.38 and I see that it runs at 1.376V, which is fine for load, but I also would prefer to push it down a little bit during idle hours. When I tried to set up Auto, it shows some crazy voltages, e.g. 1.445, which is unacceptable. Not sure how it determines what to set and how to limit it by let's say 1.38V. I do not completely understand it, but maybe it's related to to the LLC settings, right? At the moment, it is set to 6 out of 7. In general, I use manual settings from
> 
> 
> 
> as a baseline.


You wont find Dynamic voltage control in the UEFI for your Maximus X Hero, Asus call it adaptive voltage which you can enable by enabling SVID in the UEFI, then go to Vcore options to find Adaptive voltage







See below


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bothand Nether*
> 
> Not to sound like a broken record, but did you use kryonaut paste on the S36, or the stock compound?
> Pretty sure kryonaut on the fractal as well would give slightly better temps, that stock compound tape-stuff was quite thick on mine.


Did you compare stock compound and Kryonaut? What's the result?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scracy*
> 
> You wont find Dynamic voltage control in the UEFI for your Maximus X Hero, Asus call it adaptive voltage which you can enable by enabling SVID in the UEFI, then go to Vcore options to find Adaptive voltage


Thanks for the hint! It worked, but it shows weirdly high voltages whatever I set, e.g. if I set the Adaptive Voltage Turbo Total to max 1.380 and offset e.g. -0.020, I would expect it to go down, but instead it puts crazy 1.504V right after booting Windows. Looks like this thing goes crazy due to overclocked settings.


----------



## scracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Did you compare stock compound and Kryonaut? What's the result?
> Thanks for the hint! It worked, but it shows weirdly high voltages whatever I set, e.g. if I set the Adaptive Voltage Turbo Total to max 1.380 and offset e.g. -0.020, I would expect it to go down, but instead it puts crazy 1.504V right after booting Windows. Looks like this thing goes crazy due to overclocked settings.


Try not using an offset and set LLC to level 6


----------



## Mooncheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> Did you compare stock compound and Kryonaut? What's the result?
> Thanks for the hint! It worked, but it shows weirdly high voltages whatever I set, e.g. if I set the Adaptive Voltage Turbo Total to max 1.380 and offset e.g. -0.020, I would expect it to go down, but instead it puts crazy 1.504V right after booting Windows. Looks like this thing goes crazy due to overclocked settings.


You need to turn LLC way down. I kept LLC at Turbo initially and my chip too was doing 1.475V (for a moment, before I terminated Prime95). I had it on Low on my board, which would probably be 2 or 3 on yours, but got BSOD in Prime95, so I increased it to Medium, and increased negative offset from .095v to .085v. It still stays mostly under 1.4V and the BSOD went away.


----------



## DerBademeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sancus*
> 
> When you're talking about temps that are 20-25 degrees above ambient, 3 degrees is actually a pretty big difference. But for the mostpart, you're correct, there is not a significant performance advantage for AIOs over air coolers. However, if you're cooling an overclocked 7900X running heavy loads that is going to produce 250W+ of heat that 10-15% difference becomes pretty relevant.


Could I not simply improve the cooling capacity of the Noctua air cooler and close the performance gap to the AiO by swapping the included fan for a more powerful fan? In the end it comes down to performance in relation to noise, right?

- I.E. the NH-D15S has one NF-A15PWM fan included - according to the Noctua specs it spins at 1200 RPM, 19.2 db/A and 115.5 m³/h.

- There's the NF-A14PWM, a faster spinning version (1500 RPM) that is a little louder (24.6 db/A), but also more powerful at 140.2 m³/h.

- The NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 PWM hits 31.5 db/A and 182,5 m³h.

- The most powerful version, NF-A14 industrialPPC-3000 PWM hits 41.3 db/a and 269,3 m³h.

According to its own specs, the fans of the Fractal Kelvin S36 Ai0 spin at 2000 RPM and a noise level of 32.2 db/A, comparable to the NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 PWM. It would be interesting to swap the 1200 RPM fan for that 2000 RPM fan, use another one of the 2000 RPM fans as an exhaust at the back of the case and then compare the air cooler performance to the Fractal or other AiOs. Some air cooler fans also use a second exhaust fan at the top of the case (above the air cooler) for additional performance. Theoretically, this should improve cooling, due to the significantly higher volume of air (182.5 vs 115.5 m³/h) the fans push through the fins.


----------



## Sancus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> Could I not simply improve the cooling capacity of the Noctua air cooler and close the performance gap to the AiO by swapping the included fan


Sure, you can do that. You can also mount 3 additional fans on most 360mm AIOs(I dunno if the S36 supports this specifically, but it probably does). It's always going to be easier in terms of space efficiency and case organization to mount additional fans to a radiator than to a heatsink block hard mounted to the CPU.

This is kinda off-topic for this thread as an earlier post noted though so I'd rather not post any more about this in here.


----------



## Bothand Nether

Just finally got one of the 5.1 chips from SL, Woot!
-the prices have dropped a little bit & my 2700k is looking a little tired at this point.

So this is Kindof off-topic also:
-but Intel chips may have some serious performance/security issues in their chips, _for the last decade_.
The oldest chips may be impacted more.


----------



## Thrakazog

Sigh.....well, it will certainly be interesting to see what happens with this. If the 8700k performs 30% slower.......

I have a feeling this is why Intel's CEO sold every bit of stock he was legally allowed at the end of December. Market watchers thought it was a strange move......not so strange anymore........


----------



## moon162612

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> Sigh.....well, it will certainly be interesting to see what happens with this. If the 8700k performs 30% slower.......
> 
> I have a feeling this is why Intel's CEO sold every bit of stock he was legally allowed at the end of December. Market watchers thought it was a strange move......not so strange anymore........


I am sorry, but it sounds like a complete BS. Insider trading is a major felony with real prison sentence up to 20 years and multi-million fines.


----------



## Thrakazog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moon162612*
> 
> I am sorry, but it sounds like a complete BS. Insider trading is a major felony with real prison sentence up to 20 years and multi-million fines.


https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/12/19/intels-ceo-just-sold-a-lot-of-stock.aspx


----------



## DerBademeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrakazog*
> 
> Sigh.....well, it will certainly be interesting to see what happens with this. If the 8700k performs 30% slower.......
> 
> I have a feeling this is why Intel's CEO sold every bit of stock he was legally allowed at the end of December. Market watchers thought it was a strange move......not so strange anymore........


What's more, *he sold those stocks instead of waiting just two more weeks for the Trump tax cuts to kick in*. As I understand American tax law, short-term capital gains are taxed as income, so selling those stocks two weeks ago means he'll pay 39.6% instead of 37.0% in taxes on them. At $11 million for the 250k shares sold, that's $300.000 more in taxes he just handed the IRS. No one does that if they could just wait two more weeks, unless he was either desperately strapped for cash with not a day to lose - or knew that Intel stock would crash in the new year.

Intel stock is already down 2.5% today and its not even lunchtime at Wall Street yet. AMD up 5.8%.

---
So how will this affect us? I just bought a 8700k from SL and feel like a fool now. Apparently gaming on Linux isn't affected much by the software fix, but no word for Windows yet, which is what I use. I mainly bought this CPU for improved gaming performance over my 5820k.


----------



## ThrashZone

Hi,
Can't sell something without a buyer


----------



## Essenbe

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-01/intel-cpu-pti-sicherheitsluecke/#update2

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2F2018-01%2Fintel-cpu-pti-sicherheitsluecke%2F%23update2&edit-text=&act=url


----------



## Dylanlip

If someone could run the Dolphin 5.0 benchmark with the new build, that'd be great. Gotta see if emulation is impacted.


----------



## Cyph3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerBademeister*
> 
> - I.E. the NH-D15S has one NF-A15PWM fan included - according to the Noctua specs it spins at 1200 RPM, 19.2 db/A and 115.5 m³/h.


FYI - the NF-A15 included with the cooler is 1500RPM, the one you can buy separately is 1200RPM. The Chromax version of the fan is also 1500RPM.


----------



## DerBademeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyph3r*
> 
> FYI - the NF-A15 included with the cooler is 1500RPM, the one you can buy separately is 1200RPM. The Chromax version of the fan is also 1500RPM.


I bought an NF-F12 as the second fan, because only tiny RAM would fit under a second A15 fan (at least when it's aligned centrical with the other fan). Then I bought the NF-A14 iPPC 2000 PWM as a blow out at the back of the case and two regular A-14s as blow ins in the front of the case. That's probably as much air cooling power as one can get without buying their very loud 3000 RPM fans. Hopefully it will be enough to get the CPU to 5.2 GHz.


----------



## UtopiA

Can someone tell me what uncore SL is running on their 5.1 thru 5.3 bins?

I got mine stable at 5.2 GHz w 4.0 uncore and I want to know where I stand.


----------



## chibi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone tell me what uncore SL is running on their 5.1 thru 5.3 bins?
> 
> I got mine stable at 5.2 GHz w 4.0 uncore and I want to know where I stand.


I recall SL only bins the CPU Core frequency and leaves the cache at stock.


----------



## Cyph3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone tell me what uncore SL is running on their 5.1 thru 5.3 bins?
> 
> I got mine stable at 5.2 GHz w 4.0 uncore and I want to know where I stand.


I'm pretty sure stock uncore is 4.3 (4.4 on Asus boards).


----------



## Thrakazog

Initial tests of the bug patch are trickling in, and it seems the only thing taking a hit at the moment is SSD performance. Although it shows with bench marking programs, it probably won't be noticeable with every day use.

So (at least for the moment) everyone can exhale, and feel good about their awesome Silicon Lottery CPU's. Even if there had been some performance loss, I think I would have been even more happy that I had a solid OCing cpu to make up the difference.

Here are some test results with the 8700k and win 10.......


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UtopiA*
> 
> Can someone tell me what uncore SL is running on their 5.1 thru 5.3 bins?
> 
> I got mine stable at 5.2 GHz w 4.0 uncore and I want to know where I stand.


We run stock uncore (43/44x as mentioned earlier), but all CPUs I've seen so far should be capable of _at least_ 46x.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We run stock uncore (43/44x as mentioned earlier), but all CPUs I've seen so far should be capable of _at least_ 46x.


cool thanks for the info.

Also any news about the 8 core version/300 series boards?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> cool thanks for the info.
> 
> Also any news about the 8 core version/300 series boards?


I don't expect to hear anything for another month or two.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

are these 8700K prices the none inflated ones or are sources still charging more than intel MSRB? I see newegg is still above MSRB last i checked. I did notice in the last week you dropped the 5.2GHz down 10 dollars.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HOPELESSLYFAITH*
> 
> are these 8700K prices the none inflated ones or are sources still charging more than intel MSRB? I see newegg is still above MSRB last i checked. I did notice in the last week you dropped the 5.2GHz down 10 dollars.


We're paying about MSRP at this point, pricing from now on is going to simply be supply/demand.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silicon Lottery*
> 
> We're paying about MSRP at this point, pricing from now on is going to simply be supply/demand.


thanks


----------



## Dragonsyph

You guys are linking air vs water cooling graphs that have none delided cpus which are limited by the heat transfer of the cpu to the IHS meaning all results are worthless. If you have a delided cpu or one that's actually solder then you will see water coolers take a large lead.

Even my h100i with an delided 8700k at 5.3ghz only gets around 55C max in Cinebench.


----------



## Nickedit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonsyph*
> 
> You guys are linking air vs water cooling graphs that have none delided cpus which are limited by the heat transfer of the cpu to the IHS meaning all results are worthless. If you have a delided cpu or one that's actually solder then you will see water coolers take a large lead.
> 
> Even my h100i with an delided 8700k at 5.3ghz only gets around 55C max in Cinebench.


That's an interesting theory. I would love to see the overclocked temperature and noise results of the $88 Noctua NH-D15 air-cooler vs any of the popular AIO water-coolers. I have my doubts about there being any *significant* difference in temp, but it would be interesting either way.

No need to link comparisons of custom water loops or inferior air-coolers. We all know the results there, delidded or not.


----------



## Scotty99

All i know is my be quiet drp3 cools much better than my deepcool 240ex.

I think a good tower cooler will across the board best a 240 aio, its only when getting into 280 range and above will water win out.


----------



## Dragonsyph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickedit*
> 
> That's an interesting theory. I would love to see the overclocked temperature and noise results of the $88 Noctua NH-D15 air-cooler vs any of the popular AIO water-coolers. I have my doubts about there being any *significant* difference in temp, but it would be interesting either way.
> 
> No need to link comparisons of custom water loops or inferior air-coolers. We all know the results there, delidded or not.


Ya my theory is that intel cpus are limited if not delided to heat transfer to aios or air coolers, so that scenario there's only a set amount of heat that needs to be dissipated and most coolers cheap to expensive can handle this resulting in pretty close overall temps.

I would think by removing this bottleneck of heat transfer which would result in a much larger amount of heat that needs dissipating through the coolers would result in larger variations of temps. At this stage we might see the lower end coolers not be able to keep up.

Of course testing with a open bench would also need to be considered because air coolers in a case would always be sucking hot air through its fins as water coolers could be mounted to suck fresh air resulting in another variation in temps.

We could also take into account most AIO's come with junk fans and coolers like the NHd15 come with pretty baller fans resulting in another variation. One could surmise the aio would obtain better temps by replacing said fans but then would only incur additional cost.

Hard to find such benchmarks, only thing i could find was from HardOCP with a delidded 8600k. Im not sure if this is a decent air cooler or not (Thermalright Truespirit) was at 5.2ghz with 76c vs an XSPC photon kit at 5.2ghz 66c they could even get 5.3ghz on water at only 74c and couldent on air. This is just an example, im sure the NHd15 would get better temps. But for a 50 dollar air cooler it seems to be good enough even at 76c.


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonsyph*
> 
> Ya my theory is that intel cpus are limited if not delided to heat transfer to aios or air coolers, so that scenario there's only a set amount of heat that needs to be dissipated and most coolers cheap to expensive can handle this resulting in pretty close overall temps.
> I would think by removing this bottleneck of heat transfer which would result in a much larger amount of heat that needs dissipating through the coolers would result in larger variations of temps. At this stage we might see the lower end coolers not be able to keep up.
> 
> Of course testing with a open bench would also need to be considered because air coolers in a case would always be sucking hot air through its fins as water coolers could be mounted to suck fresh air resulting in another variation in temps.
> 
> We could also take into account most AIO's come with junk fans and coolers like the NHd15 come with pretty baller fans resulting in another variation. One could surmise the aio would obtain better temps by replacing said fans but then would only incur additional cost.
> 
> Hard to find such benchmarks, only thing i could find was from HardOCP with a delidded 8600k. Im not sure if this is a decent air cooler or not (Thermalright Truespirit) was at 5.2ghz with 76c vs an XSPC photon kit at 5.2ghz 66c they could even get 5.3ghz on water at only 74c and couldent on air. This is just an example, im sure the NHd15 would get better temps. But for a 50 dollar air cooler it seems to be good enough even at 76c.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonsyph*
> 
> You guys are linking air vs water cooling graphs that have none delided cpus which are limited by the heat transfer of the cpu to the IHS meaning all results are worthless. If you have a delided cpu or one that's actually solder then you will see water coolers take a large lead.
> 
> Even my h100i with an delided 8700k at 5.3ghz only gets around 55C max in Cinebench.


The D15 air cooler with good fans basically equals decent AIOs like the H100i GTX. I own a Predator 360, H100i GTX and D15. They all are about the same on a 160-220W TDP 1650v3. D15 vs AIO on a delidded 8700K are going to have about the same temps depending on fan speeds on the D15

Predator is hardly even noticeably better than the H100i GTX on my 1650v3. Now if your using 200W + TDP on a large die? H100i GTX pump maxes out at 160-200w TDP. A D15 or a Predator will beat a H100i GTX or any cheap AIO with a low flow rate on 200+ watt TDP large dies. The water in a H100i GTX is at max capacity due to the slow flow rate. better fans or bigger rad makes 0 difference.

The heat per square inch on the 1650v3 at ~200W TDP is pretty much the max amount of heat per square area that can be removed without custom water cooler with like 5GPM flow rate or really you need to go to a TEC/Phase set up.

Now if you have 300-400w TDP on 2x area the AIO will 100% fail at the task. So think of AIO on threadripper or Intel 18 core CPUs. AIOs max at 160-200W TDP due to low flow rate but a D15 with high power fans _*may or will not*_ fail at that task. The isssue for the D15 is what is the max heat the heat pipes can handle. I dont know of anyone testing this. I was going to with a TEC set up with 200CFM 120mm fans but the guy on this form never made me the custom block to try it.

The Predator will be able to handle 300-400W TDP because it was designed to do so and has the flow rate to handle that kind of capacity.

See this indepth review that goes into this issue.
https://hardforum.com/threads/review-corsair-100i-gtx-with-1650v3-220w-tdp-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/


----------



## navjack27

I meant to make my delidding article into a comparison but never did because I was too impatient to do my first delidding to collect data before. But what I did do was go from a kraken x61 to the d15 after my delid.
https://navjack27.netlify.com/refining-coffee-lake/
I'll go back and do more testing with this at some point. But least now I have some data points.


----------



## mouacyk

navjack27 said:


> I meant to make my delidding article into a comparison but never did because I was too impatient to do my first delidding to collect data before. But what I did do was go from a kraken x61 to the d15 after my delid.
> https://navjack27.netlify.com/refining-coffee-lake/
> I'll go back and do more testing with this at some point. But least now I have some data points.


This deserves more likes... ermm... Rep, I mean. Great work on the benchmarking, recording, and sharing your result!


----------



## fg2chase

just an FYI I have had an 8700k delidded and overclocked to 5Ghz since October and I could not be happier.

Thanks SL


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Any news on Coffelake refresh or 8 cores?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

HOPELESSLYFAITH said:


> Any news on Coffelake refresh or 8 cores?


I haven't heard anything concrete yet.


----------



## E-curbi

A Coffee Lake Refresh 9th gen 6-core will be fine with me, although I really hope Intel also produces an 8-core. Highly doubt the 8-core would have better single thread performance but anything is possible.

A 6-core stock 4.0GHz and single core Turbo Boost of 5.0GHz would be ideal for many of us.

Will the 6-core be an i7 and the 8-core an i9? Who knows right?

And for some crazy off the wall reason I believe Intel marketing might just drop the Z390 chipset nomenclature and go with Z470 at the last minute, to psychologically compete with AMD's X470 chipset, but again all we can do is speculate right now.

Also feel Intel is remaining so quiet about their 9th gen until AMD plays their cards with Ryzen 2. When Ryzen 2 performance numbers emerge, and sales begin, shortly after Intel will make their grand announcement. Just my 20cents. 

However it plays out, I'll pick up a new 6 or 8 core from SL binned and delidded, to drop into an Asus Maximus 11 Extreme mobo.

I always get the 2nd (one down) from the top binned tier when I buy from Siliconlottery.com. Always does me well.


----------



## E-curbi

Sorry for the dbl post. Somehow I quoted myself and then things went terribly wrong. 

Here's a nice find, although still in the rumor phase.

A possible Intel Coffee Lake Refresh 6-core stock 4.0 turbo boost 5.1. I'll take it. :thumbsups 


http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/unannounced-intel-core-i7-8086k-surfaces.html


----------



## HOPELESSLYFAITH

Silicon Lottery said:


> I haven't heard anything concrete yet.


thanks. Any news on more 8700k 5.2ghz? I see they are out of stock. Are you trying to keep low stock due to a refresh or something or just demand and JIT failure?

Thanks,
HF


----------



## Silicon Lottery

HOPELESSLYFAITH said:


> thanks. Any news on more 8700k 5.2ghz? I see they are out of stock. Are you trying to keep low stock due to a refresh or something or just demand and JIT failure?
> 
> Thanks,
> HF


Should be more today, we're having some bad luck on our current round of 8700Ks and we're a bit preoccupied with 2600X/2700X binning.


----------



## E-curbi

I'd like an 8086K 6-core binned at 5.5Ghz please. 

https://videocardz.com/76305/intel-core-i7-8086k-anniversary-edition-cpu-listed-by-retailers

https://www.techpowerup.com/244673/i...-ghz-processor

Do you think the high bins with hit 5.5Ghz? 5.6Ghz?


----------



## bl4ckdot

E-curbi said:


> I'd like an 8086K 6-core binned at 5.5Ghz please.
> 
> https://videocardz.com/76305/intel-core-i7-8086k-anniversary-edition-cpu-listed-by-retailers
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/244673/i...-ghz-processor
> 
> Do you think the high bins with hit 5.5Ghz? 5.6Ghz?



Na. They are just slightly binned 8700K.


----------



## E-curbi

bl4ckdot said:


> Na. They are just slightly binned 8700K.



I have to believe (want to believe)  it's more than just some additional binning. We've seen SL bin the 8700K, 5.3GHz was the highest, and only in very small numbers.

The 8086Ks must have a bit of tuning and tweaking going on. (crossing fingers) Only time will tell. 

If Intel has found a way to push the architecture a tiny bit more, then hoping we'll see a range of bins from SL, just like the 8700K only slightly higher...Hoping, I'm just hoping. 

Wondering if the higher msrp is due to the anniversary commemorative aspect of the CPU or did Intel add some solder?


----------



## Lass3

They will be (much) better binned or come with proper TIM, like Devil's Canyon maybe. I'll probably delid regardless tho.

I'm going to get one and see. Together with a Z390 board.

I can't wait for Cannonlake and I don't need the 8C/16T CFL. This is for a high fps gaming rig - Clocks will matter more than cores.


----------



## Silicon Lottery

The launch date for binned 8086Ks is going to be June 17th.

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/8086k


----------



## mouacyk

Silicon Lottery said:


> We'll be binning and delidding the new 8086K CPUs. For those of you hoping Intel moved away from paste under the IHS, I have confirmed this is not the case.
> 
> We are however, planning something special this time for the launch of these CPUs so you'll want to keep your eyes peeled!
> 
> I'll post here again once we have a good idea of an ETA.


I'll bet it's a lottery! Intel is simply air dropping this model in limited quantity it seems. You can't put a price tag on that.


----------



## encrypted11

But "it isn't real"!


----------



## E-curbi

encrypted11 said:


> But "it isn't real"!



NO, it's NOT REAL, it's only a fragment (figment) of our imaginations. 


I'll take my figment at 5.5Ghz please.


----------



## merlin__36

Cannot wait to see what the intel core i7 8086k can do. Just grabbed the 8700k last week lol!


----------



## scott31337

Awesome! Can't wait!


----------



## scott31337

Didn't mean to double post


----------



## white owl

The i7 8086k isn't a one off chip, it's only an 8700k that boosts to 5Ghz on single core with a 4Ghz base.
The best binned 8700k and best binned 8086k will have the same limitations as they are the same CPU, it kinda sucks because your odds of getting a golden 8700k now are pretty slim. They're taking 50k of the best 8700ks to do this, my only hope is to win an 8086k and if I don't I'll keep waiting for the 8 core chips lol.
I'd imagine any 8086 chips will be more likely to hit +5.3 than any 8700 as they did the binning already. The only thing left to do is bin the binned CPUs lol


----------



## Scotty99

Well this CPU is cool because you dont need to overclock to get the boost needed in older titles like WoW, depending on the price (has that been mentioned) this will be my go to recommendation for all the WoW players i know who cant be bothered to overclock lol.


----------



## E-curbi

Scotty99 said:


> *Well this CPU is cool because you dont need to overclock to get the boost needed* in older titles like WoW, depending on the price (has that been mentioned) this will be my go to recommendation for all the WoW players i know who cant be bothered to overclock lol.


Exactly, that Turbo Boost to 5.0Ghz is key. Many of us won't need to add an all-core overclock for some builds, like my work rig will do fine with a super low latency 8086K, Trident Z 3200 14 DDR4, and a nice Optane 280GB 905P latency<10microseconds, for getting work done. Single core boost is enough now and then for us that don't use HCC throughput or high memory bandwidth or multi-GPU compute in our work. 

Even though I already picked up 5 radiators and the res and pump for a nice loop, LOL.

Still hoping Siliconlottery Super-binning bro finds a higher range of bins, 5.0GHz to 5.5GHz would be nice, I'll grab a 5.4Ghz and be very happy. 

If they don't bin over 5.3Ghz, then yea the 8086K is just a factory reclock stock and turbo. Guess we'll find out on Friday when the NDA lifts?

Is my thinking correct here SL? Or am I missing something obvious, like voltage increases?


----------



## Seyumi

What I'm wondering is if a same Ghz 8086K and a 8700k for Silicon Lottery's price would cost the same, less, or more. The 8086K processor itself already costs a little more but if it's just a pre-binned 8700k than it should be able to reach those higher clocks more easily thus being less of a "lottery." If these 8086K's can't hit 5.4Ghz or have a steady 5.3Ghz supply like SL currently cannot maintain than it is just a fancy 8700k with a probably 5.2Ghz max consistency stock.


----------



## Scotty99

Rumor i read was 399.99 msrp which sounds about right. Also if you think about it these dont need to be binned chips whatsoever, its all core boost is 4.7 and only one core boosts to 5.0. Literally any 8700k can hit that overclocked. Unless they are claiming higher overclocks on the 8086k its just 8700k rebadges with higher stock clocks.


----------



## encrypted11

Scotty99 said:


> Rumor i read was 399.99 msrp which sounds about right. Also if you think about it these dont need to be binned chips whatsoever, its all core boost is 4.7 and only one core boosts to 5.0. Literally any 8700k can hit that overclocked. Unless they are claiming higher overclocks on the 8086k its just 8700k rebadges with higher stock clocks.


In Turboboost 2.0, it is a requirement that all cores are stable at the 1 core ratio through all core ratio though not simultaneously for TDP reasons, in other words that has to be the weakest link of the 6 cores since there is no explicit method you could run a "specific multiplier per core" style OC as with the Skylake X firmware. 









It's unlike the Zen architecture where there are "special cores" demarcated for single core turbo (and that if the "golden cores" aren't the primary ones that perform the weight lifting, it'll perform worse than the samples that do.. there's a comment by The stilt on the matter and highlighted the performance variance could be up to 10% due to OS scheduling and location of golden cores). Also on the 8086K, 95W TDP and rated stock voltages you're talking about and typically default VID under 1.3V.


----------



## Scotty99

Fair enough but my point still holds ground, i dont know a single person who's chip cant clock to 5ghz. These are rebadged 8700k's until SL gives us info to the contrary. I dont think were going to see 5.4 and 5.5ghz 8086k's, its gonna top out at 5.3 just like 8700k's did. I could be wrong of course, but i rarely am


----------



## wingman99

Scotty99 said:


> Fair enough but my point still holds ground, i dont know a single person who's chip cant clock to 5ghz. These are rebadged 8700k's until SL gives us info to the contrary. I dont think were going to see 5.4 and 5.5ghz 8086k's, its gonna top out at 5.3 just like 8700k's did. I could be wrong of course, but i rarely am


I have seen 3 just in this forum and out of 1000 processors tested as of 3/22/18, the top 88% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.0GHz or greater. https://siliconlottery.com/collections/coffeelake/products/8700k50g How would you like one that can't hit 5.0GHz.


----------



## merlin__36

I bet it is going to be just some top-bin Processors seems to make the most sense, Intel's Silicon Lottery?


----------



## E-curbi

merlin__36 said:


> I bet it is going to be just some top-bin Processors seems to make the most sense, Intel's Silicon Lottery?


Guess we'll find out tomorrow when the NDA lifts. 


Hoping for some reviews that show 8086Ks stable over 5.3Ghz on ambient cooling water and good air. :thumb:


If Siliconlottery has to sell another range of 4.9Ghz to 5.3Ghz bins, well that will be sad.


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## Silicon Lottery

We should have the first round up on the 17th.


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## fat4l

Silicon Lottery said:


> We'll be binning and delidding the new 8086K CPUs. For those of you hoping Intel moved away from paste under the IHS, I have confirmed this is not the case.
> 
> We are however, planning something special this time for the launch of these CPUs so you'll want to keep your eyes peeled!
> 
> I'll post here again once we have a good idea of an ETA.


Do you think/know/hope that these CPUs will be any better than your 5.3G bin ?
THanks


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## Silicon Lottery

fat4l said:


> Do you think/know/hope that these CPUs will be any better than your 5.3G bin ?
> THanks


As usual, all bins will be disclosed at launch.


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## E-curbi

Silicon Lottery said:


> We should have the first round up on the 17th.



At midnight? Or when you roll out of bed? Just kidding... :lachen:


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## IMI4tth3w

So the 8086k is basically an intel binned 8700k correct? Curious if there will be enough 5.3GHz chips to make the frequency worth while. Maybe even a 5.4GHz? Also curious if there are any under the hood changes or updates or if it is strictly just a binned 8700k.


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## MrFox

I cannot understand a word of what they're saying in this video, but it shows promise. Call it 8086K or a cherry-picked 8700K, either way looks decent.


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## E-curbi

MrFox said:


> I cannot understand a word of what they're saying in this video, but it shows promise. Call it 8086K or a cherry-picked 8700K, either way looks decent.
> 
> https://youtu.be/TF5ZG97rA-w


Thanks MrFox...

So with a sample size of (1), that guy got 5.4Ghz stable with ambient All In One cooling?


Maybe we'll get some 5.5ghz bins and a very small number of 5.6Ghz 8086Ks. Gotta stay positive, the silicon Gods are watching and deciding if humankind deserves a 5.6Ghz 6-core.


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## SavantStrike

E-curbi said:


> Thanks MrFox...
> 
> So with a sample size of (1), that guy got 5.4Ghz stable with ambient All In One cooling?
> 
> 
> Maybe we'll get some 5.5ghz bins and a very small number of 5.6Ghz 8086Ks. Gotta stay positive, the silicon Gods are watching and deciding if humankind deserves a 5.6Ghz 6-core.


No way it'll be truly stable at 5.6 on air. Many people have "stable" chips with occasional memory errors - those don't count!


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## E-curbi

Intel says the 8086K NDA lifts as soon as the giveaway sweepstakes ends, so in about 4hours and 41minutes.

Will we have reviews going up at that time? I'll be checking for their results on air and water.


https://game.intel.com/8086sweepstakes/


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## Scotty99

Just got an email from microcenter, 429.99:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_p...&MccGuid=3b38010c-99eb-4b84-b129-201a007e79c6


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## Fodiddle

A stable 5.4 would be pretty damned glorious.


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## E-curbi

Send me a 5.5Ghz stable Siliconlottery.com and I will invest in your company.


I emailed your bro.


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## wingman99

The 8086k does not do any better overclocking than the i7 8700k.


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## E-curbi

no.


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## wingman99

E-curbi said:


> Linus also thought Optane was a hoax. Please Linus is a zillionaire youtuber bull****ter and I no longer watch.


It was Der8auer that did the testing. Life is to short don't hate.


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## E-curbi

wingman99 said:


> It was Der8auer that did the testing. Life is to short don't hate.


I'm not hatin, click next generation no science background except your participation trophy.


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## white owl

E-curbi said:


> Linus also thought Optane was a hoax. Please Linus is a zillionaire youtuber bull****ter and I no longer watch.


 Your opinions of Linus doesn't change the fact that it's a binned 8700k. CPU binning was a thing long before this CPU so we already know the limits of the chips and have for some time. I'd imagine there is a handful that can do 5.5 without exotic cooling but you'll be over 1.4v. As expensive as the CPU already is I can't imagine what SL would charge for 4.3Ghz 8086s.


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## E-curbi

white owl said:


> Your opinions of Linus doesn't change the fact that it's a binned 8700k. CPU binning was a thing long before this CPU so we already know the limits of the chips and have for some time. I'd imagine there is a handful that can do 5.5 without exotic cooling but you'll be over 1.4v. As expensive as the CPU already is I can't imagine what SL would charge for 4.3Ghz 8086s.



Already have an 8086K ordered and arriving Sunday. Hoping for the best. Limited supply made me scared.


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## white owl

Odds are you'll get a good CPU but don't expect the moon, think of it as having a golden 8700k. If you want to push up to 5.3Ghz you will need to delid but I'm sure you know that.
I'm trying to help someone now who was going for 5Ghz on an Asus TUF z370 lol! I hope you have a good board.


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## E-curbi

Goodbye.


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## Konbo

Darn it's out of stock. I want to buy one delidded! Will you get more in the future (before the 50k run out) and if not will you be offering delidding service for these chips?


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## white owl

I think that's why they have a delidding service lol.


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## Silicon Lottery

Konbo said:


> Darn it's out of stock. I want to buy one delidded! Will you get more in the future (before the 50k run out) and if not will you be offering delidding service for these chips?


We haven't launched yet, they'll be available June 17th. We will have plenty of stock available, there isn't a shortage of availability.

Delidding will also be available on the 17th.


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## Kana Chan

Aside from the higher core clock, how high could the cache and memory be clocked ( core at stock ) vs a 8700K?


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## merlin__36

Very interested to see how SL rolls out these limited Chips.


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## Silicon Lottery

We're looking at these going up around 4PM CST on Sunday.


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## Tybio

Silicon Lottery said:


> We're looking at these going up around 4PM CST on Sunday.


Any hint to what sort of results you all are getting? I'd expect about the same as the 8700k in terms of max OC, but better percentages of higher OCs as they are pre-bined a bit.

I honestly don't expect a response, just thought I'd ask


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## Silicon Lottery

Tybio said:


> Any hint to what sort of results you all are getting? I'd expect about the same as the 8700k in terms of max OC, but better percentages of higher OCs as they are pre-bined a bit.
> 
> I honestly don't expect a response, just thought I'd ask


Your suspicions are pretty much correct.

For everyone waiting, we are going to launch at 4PM CST which is a little under 8 hours from now.


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## Seyumi

SL 8086K bins were a little underwhelming (from Intel, not Silicon Lottery), but expected. Pretty much all the 8086K bins are higher priced than their 8700k counterparts except the 5.2Ghz bin with a $100 savings and now there's 5.3Ghz options again. Pretty sure anyone who was in the market for a binned 8700k already has one.


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## Seyumi

Looks like you got some free advertising:

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/6225...binned-delidded-cpus-6c-12t-5-3ghz/index.html

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-8086k-silicon-lottery-delidded-binned-cpus-available/

congrats lol


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## Scotty99

Scotty99 said:


> Fair enough but my point still holds ground, i dont know a single person who's chip cant clock to 5ghz. These are rebadged 8700k's until SL gives us info to the contrary. I dont think were going to see 5.4 and 5.5ghz 8086k's, its gonna top out at 5.3 just like 8700k's did. I could be wrong of course, but i rarely am


Wish i was wrong more often, being right all the time is no fun!


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## Silicon Lottery

We should have some more 8700Ks up by Friday now that the dust is starting to settle.


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## E-curbi

Thank you Siliconlottery, you totally ROCK! :thumb:

Noctua Air, up all night, 7am got to 5.4Ghz, the 8086K has not even been here 24hours yet. What a chip!


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## E-curbi

Just booted into Win10 5.5Ghz same 1.450volts, as the 5.4Ghz stable Cinebench. 

What the heck do I do now? Increase voltage past the safe range and go for Cinebench?


----------



## Artah

I wanted to use a binned/delidded SL 8086K but it looks like I can't use memory faster than 2800MHz if I wanted to use a 4x4 on it? Is that even possible on this chip?


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## Silicon Lottery

Artah said:


> I wanted to use a binned/delidded SL 8086K but it looks like I can't use memory faster than 2800MHz if I wanted to use a 4x4 on it? Is that even possible on this chip?


You can definitely try running faster memory than our QVL, it's just outside of our overclock guarantee.


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## E-curbi

Getting some work done at 5.5Ghz, thank you Siliconlottery, I LOVE this chip.


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## E-curbi

Looks like a Coffee Lake Refresh Incoming. Although with a new number for the series, maybe they should call it WhiskeyLake WHL. 

Still in the rumor phase but 95% of Intel rumors seem to always come/move to fruition. 

August September along with new Z390 motherboards. YAY! I'll finally pick up that Maximus 11 Extreme. 9700K should be the new low-latency and gaming leader, I would think. 

That i9 9900K 8-core is going to sell like hotcakes with strawberry syrup. 

Intel Core i9-9900K (est: 8 Core / 16 Threads)
Intel Core i7-9700K (est: 6 Core / 12 Threads)
Intel Core i5-9600K (est: 6 Core / 6 Threads)

I'll pick up a 9700K from Siliconlottery as soon as available, bet they will bin to 5.5Ghz or 5.6Ghz, well maybe.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-coffee-lake-core-i9-9900k-product-names-leaked.html


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## Taylorious

Is stock of i5-8600k on track to still be available tomorrow as per the website? I need to grab an i5 for my third machine which is gaming only-- was quite tempted to click on the 8086k but 200$ is a large price difference for the same performance gaming.


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## Silicon Lottery

Taylorious said:


> Is stock of i5-8600k on track to still be available tomorrow as per the website? I need to grab an i5 for my third machine which is gaming only-- was quite tempted to click on the 8086k but 200$ is a large price difference for the same performance gaming.


Yes, we should start having some more up this evening actually.


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## agentghost

E-curbi said:


> Looks like a Coffee Lake Refresh Incoming. Although with a new number for the series, maybe they should call it WhiskeyLake WHL.
> 
> Still in the rumor phase but 95% of Intel rumors seem to always come/move to fruition.
> 
> August September along with new Z390 motherboards. YAY! I'll finally pick up that Maximus 11 Extreme. 9700K should be the new low-latency and gaming leader, I would think.
> 
> That i9 9900K 8-core is going to sell like hotcakes with strawberry syrup.
> 
> Intel Core i9-9900K (est: 8 Core / 16 Threads)
> Intel Core i7-9700K (est: 6 Core / 12 Threads)
> Intel Core i5-9600K (est: 6 Core / 6 Threads)
> 
> I'll pick up a 9700K from Siliconlottery as soon as available, bet they will bin to 5.5Ghz or 5.6Ghz, well maybe.
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-coffee-lake-core-i9-9900k-product-names-leaked.html


why settle with the 9700K and not picking up that Intel Core i9-9900K (est: 8 Core / 16 Threads)?


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## E-curbi

agentghost said:


> why settle with the 9700K and not picking up that Intel Core i9-9900K (est: 8 Core / 16 Threads)?



My work apps benefit more from higher frequency vs HCC (High Core Count).

Guessing the 9700K 6-core will be max clock capable higher than the 9900K 8-core.

And the 9700K should arrive with lower latency than the 9900K, if Intel is still using the Ring Bus for core to core communication, less electronic distance to travel or something like that.


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## fat4l

I see theres an 8700k for $ 799.99 and 8086k for $ 829.99. 
Is there any real difference between these in terms of "possible" OC over 5.3G? In other terms is 8086k 5.3G bin better ?


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## E-curbi

fat4l said:


> I see theres an 8700k for $ 799.99 and 8086k for $ 829.99.
> Is there any real difference between these in terms of "possible" OC over 5.3G? In other terms is 8086k 5.3G bin better ?



That's a VERY GOOD question because you wonder about the TOP bin. I mean "I wonder" if that top 3% of 8700Ks and top 14% of 8086Ks binned at 5.3Ghz would again separate into an even smaller number of 5.4Ghz bins *if tested as such*.
*
Only Siliconlottery could answer that.*

I do know there are 8700ks and 8086ks both stable at 5.4Ghz.


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## wingman99

fat4l said:


> I see theres an 8700k for $ 799.99 and 8086k for $ 829.99.
> Is there any real difference between these in terms of "possible" OC over 5.3G? In other terms is 8086k 5.3G bin better ?


As of 6/17/18, the top 14% of tested 8086Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.
As of 6/08/18, the top 3% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/coffeelake/products/8700k53g
Looks like folks have 11% better chance of greater than 5.3GHz with 8086Ks compared to 8700ks.


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## Silicon Lottery

fat4l said:


> I see theres an 8700k for $ 799.99 and 8086k for $ 829.99.
> Is there any real difference between these in terms of "possible" OC over 5.3G? In other terms is 8086k 5.3G bin better ?


They are tested the same way, so effectively there is no difference.



E-curbi said:


> That's a VERY GOOD question because you wonder about the TOP bin. I mean "I wonder" if that top 3% of 8700Ks and top 14% of 8086Ks binned at 5.3Ghz would again separate into an even smaller number of 5.4Ghz bins *if tested as such*.
> *
> Only Siliconlottery could answer that.*
> 
> I do know there are 8700ks and 8086ks both stable at 5.4Ghz.


All of these are tested for 5.4 as well, but none have passed our tests here for a 5.4GHz bin.


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## E-curbi

wingman99 said:


> As of 6/17/18, the top 14% of tested 8086Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.
> As of 6/08/18, the top 3% of tested 8700Ks were able to hit 5.3GHz or greater.
> https://siliconlottery.com/collections/coffeelake/products/8700k53g
> *Looks like folks have 11% better chance of greater than 5.3GHz with 8086Ks compared to 8700ks*.



Very true if playing the real lottery and buying unbinned from an retailer. But buying from SL, there should be no greater chance at reaching 5.4Ghz with a 8700k 5.3 bin or an 8086k 5.3 bin.



Silicon Lottery said:


> They are tested the same way, so effectively there is no difference.



Thanks Boss. 



Silicon Lottery said:


> All of these are tested for 5.4 as well, but none have passed our tests here for a 5.4GHz bin.



Interesting. :thinking:


----------



## wingman99

E-curbi said:


> Very true if playing the real lottery and buying unbinned from an retailer. But buying from SL, there should be no greater chance at reaching 5.4Ghz with a 8700k 5.3 bin or an 8086k 5.3 bin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Boss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. :thinking:


From what I remember SL test batch is a 1000 processors at a time.


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## E-curbi

wingman99 said:


> From what I remember SL test batch is a 1000 processors at a time.



REALLY? Wow, you'd think at least one 5.4Ghz chip would be able to squeeze his way through that stringent test out of 1000. LOL 

.


----------



## wingman99

E-curbi said:


> REALLY? Wow, you'd think at least one 5.4Ghz chip would be able to squeeze his way through that stringent test out of 1000. LOL
> 
> .


They said 1000 processors once in forums that I know of when they announced a new batch.


----------



## E-curbi

8086K 5.5Ghz Cinebench Single Thread stable, lol. 

I LOVE my 8086K, thank you SL dude.

5.6Ghz Win 10 boot. Had to turn off hyperthreading.


----------



## unityole

so.. when is the 8 cores binning coming? also anyone know of vapor chamber IHS?


----------



## Silicon Lottery

Coffee Lake-R binning: https://www.overclock.net/forum/18068-silicon-lottery/1705980-coffee-lake-r-binning.html


----------

