# Finalmouse Scream One



## tunelover

http://www.twitch.tv/scream/v/44606771

time: 56:50 in vod


----------



## Dreyka

So does the signature devalue it or not. It's the Tournament Uber Elite Pro shape.

All black, no LEDs and a white signature would have been better. Zowie has the right idea.

Tournament Pro shape. 20M Omrons (stiffer). PMW-3360 with their "own implementation". 1000Hz polling rate, redesigned side switches, lighter weight and different manufacturing.

Now how many of you suckers paying beta testers are going to buy it again.


----------



## reddy89

They should just update the Tournament Pro to be a S1 but just all black.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does the signature devalue it or not. It's the Tournament Uber Elite Pro shape.
> 
> All black, no LEDs and a white signature would have been better. Zowie has the right idea.
> 
> It has 20M Omrons and PMW-3360 implementation "designed from the ground up".


Not gonna lie, I actually liked that color scheme. But that signature... meh
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> They should just update the Tournament Pro to be a S1 but just all black.


Yep, they should've released an updated Ergo with the 3360, and the TP with the 3360 already.
FM is becoming Zowie, releasing a different rev of their mice in every now and then.


----------



## Derp

$67 is already quite high for their 500Hz 3310 mouse. Is this thing going to be like $80?


----------



## Aymanb

Whats the point of releasing another tournament pro shaped mouse? why make the tournament pro then??


----------



## discoprince

just in blue?
not crazy about the sig on the lmb.


----------



## daunow

Do the company owner really thinks people would enjoy a signature like that on their mouse? lol


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Whats the point of releasing another tournament pro shaped mouse? why make the tournament pro then??


This is FinalMouse we are talking about.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Whats the point of releasing another tournament pro shaped mouse? why make the tournament pro then??


Different price points based on internals


----------



## CookieBook

Really excited to see a proper implementation of a 3366 in a ambi shape


----------



## qsxcv

lol
i bet what scream has right now is just a tp with a different shell, and same 3310 stuff


----------



## wmoftw

I hope it comes in a regular colour like black, or keep the same colours but without the signature. Also will it be lighter?

I like the tourny pro shape a lot, I will try this one out for the new sensor. See what it's like to compare filtering on vs off (apparently the scream one has no mcu filtering? I guess it adds a delay, but I am not sure)


----------



## ronal

The color scheme looks great.


----------



## a_ak57

Hopefully they reconsider the literal signature since it's super tacky. If they're insistent on having that somewhere, just put it on the bottom of the mouse.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Hopefully they reconsider the literal signature since it's super tacky. If they're insistent on having that somewhere, just put it on the bottom of the mouse.


They are aiming to blind you with the white leds AND the signature.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does the signature devalue it or not. It's the Tournament Uber Elite Pro shape.
> 
> All black, no LEDs and a white signature would have been better. Zowie has the right idea.
> 
> Tournament Pro shape. 20M Omrons (stiffer). PMW-3360 with their "own implementation". 1000Hz polling rate, redesigned side switches, lighter weight and different manufacturing.
> 
> Now how many of you suckers paying beta testers are going to buy it again.


For a guy that seems to despise the brand, you sure are quick to provide coverage!


----------



## john88

I would buy it for the sensor, but not with that signature lol.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Deadeye

If they are selling with that signature i'm not buying no mater how good the mouse is.

This is just to tacky FM....

You created a good mouse that people would buy but you had to be this stupid to add silly signature....


----------



## Vyrth

Oh man...I wouldn't mind the signature if it was on the side of the mouse (black part), but on the left mouse button? Really? But I know myself, I'll probably buy it for the sake of trying, I didn't purchase any of the other new FM's just because I'm waiting for the Scream One. Let's hope this time the production will go smoothly.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vyrth*
> 
> Oh man...I wouldn't mind the signature if it was on the side of the mouse (black part), but on the left mouse button? Really? But I know myself, I'll probably buy it for the sake of trying, I didn't purchase any of the other new FM's just because I'm waiting for the Scream One. Let's hope this time the production will go smoothly.


I agree.
They should've put the signature here or here

Well, I mean, I think it would've been better if it was under the mouse. But you know, it's Finalmouse, and I'm being realistic...


----------



## wmoftw

maybe the tourny pros left and right click will fit into the scream one


----------



## Stats

Some of the people on this forum are just straight up hilarious, "no matter how good it is I won't buy it because i don't like the signature!" Surely most people care more about how the mouse feels and performs? If it's bright pink and lime I wouldn't care at all, I don't look at my mouse when i'm gaming, surely no one does, so why all this "boycotting" purely because you don't like how it looks visually?
And the guy that you can find in every single FM thread hating over and over, why doesn't he just move on if he hates the mice and the company that makes them so much? I don't get it...


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> Some of the people on this forum are just straight up hilarious, "no matter how good it is I won't buy it because i don't like the signature!" Surely most people care more about how the mouse feels and performs? If it's bright pink and lime I wouldn't care at all, I don't look at my mouse when i'm gaming, surely no one does, so why all this "boycotting" purely because you don't like how it looks visually?
> And the guy that you can find in every single FM thread hating over and over, why doesn't he just move on if he hates the mice and the company that makes them so much? I don't get it...


@Dreyka Seriously. I bought and returned the 2015 because it wasn't my cup of tea. Stated what I didn't like about it and moved on. This guy dives deep into business ethics and marketing policies like they're the only brand in the market that hypes their product up with cliche claims.


----------



## povohat

Signature is pretty gross but if the mouse is good, i'll tolerate it. It's less embarassing than the COD MW3 branded G9x that I have used.


----------



## al0ne

Does it really matter where the signature is when your clicking the button? Are you really staring at the mouse button the whole time?


----------



## killuchen

I think the mouse looks freaking awesome. Since it has the tourney pro shape. Is it more of a claw/hybrid? I'm currently using a ZA11. I will get this depending on the price.


----------



## equlix

Don't worry brothers, I shall bear the burden of buying this mouse on release day for you. ?


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Disa freaking pointing

Was hoping this would be an intellimouse looking shape.


----------



## Ihateallmice

mmm I'm hyped... to see if the QC could possibly end worse than the current tournament pro version. must suck to beta test their current version tho. rip


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> Some of the people on this forum are just straight up hilarious, "no matter how good it is I won't buy it because i don't like the signature!" Surely most people care more about how the mouse feels and performs? If it's bright pink and lime I wouldn't care at all, I don't look at my mouse when i'm gaming, surely no one does, so why all this "boycotting" purely because you don't like how it looks visually?
> And the guy that you can find in every single FM thread hating over and over, why doesn't he just move on if he hates the mice and the company that makes them so much? I don't get it...


Me neither. We get it, you don't like their products, their marketing philosophies, whatever. Just move on.

I for one am looking forward to trying a 3360 equipped mouse with a decent shape.

Give them feedback, tell them what you like, what you don't, then decide for yourself if they will earn future business from you based on how they react to that feedback. As a company, they don't owe us a damn thing. It's really their prerogative to design mice exactly as they see fit.


----------



## Maximillion

I'm pretty sure one of these will fit over Scream's signature.


----------



## fnade

Anyone knows how similar is 3360 to 3366 are they perfectly the same ? Did they just renamed to 3360 as a publicly available version ?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Different price points based on internals


Lol, I can't tell if you are trolling or not. What are they going to charge 100$ for it or something. The others are already the most over priced mice I can think of.


----------



## DadeBound

I hope they come out with a Red version. I love me a red version. I personally don't mind the signature but I could go for one without it.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fnade*
> 
> Anyone knows how similar is 3360 to 3366 are they perfectly the same ? Did they just renamed to 3360 as a publicly available version ?


afaik, pretty much.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Hopefully they reconsider the literal signature since it's super tacky. If they're insistent on having that somewhere, just put it on the bottom of the mouse.


They can change the bottom mold to put Scream's signature instead of spraying it on the mouse.

If some people buy this mouse because it has "Scream" on it they will want it to stay there. Spraying the signature onto a heavy wear area isn't smart. If the coating starts to wear...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> All black, no LEDs and a white signature would have been better. Zowie has the right idea.
> 
> Tournament Pro shape. 20M Omrons (stiffer). PMW-3360 with their "own implementation". 1000Hz polling rate, redesigned side switches, lighter weight and different manufacturing.
> 
> Now how many of you suckers paying beta testers are going to buy it again.


So no D2F-01F switches?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Now how many of you suckers paying beta testers are going to buy it again.


didn't pay a thing but iirc i signed up for their beta something for testing the new sensor when jude mentioned it last september/october.

haven't heard a thing from him other than "soon"/"few more weeks"/etc...
hence i'm fairly sure whatever scream unveiled on stream is just another 3310 mouse with a colored shell.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Lol, I can't tell if you are trolling or not. What are they going to charge 100$ for it or something. The others are already the most over priced mice I can think of.


Well the tp is like 70 or something. Scream will retail for 90 in my opinion.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Jude already said somewhere that the S1 will be $76.99.


----------



## Dylan Nails

just lol.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Jude already said somewhere that the S1 will be $76.99.


Unless they lower the price on the tournament pro they might as well just discontinue it once the scream comes out. The only possible reason I can see to get it is if you really hate the scream signature and color that much. The tournament pro is a 50$ mouse tops anyway and really I would consider 40$ a reasonable price.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Well the tp is like 70 or something. Scream will retail for 90 in my opinion.


wait, you ain't serious a mouse without software or lights for 90? what world i am living right now


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> wait, you ain't serious a mouse without software or lights for 90? what world i am living right now


It does have lights. In fact people have said the lights on the tournament pro which is the same shell are blindingly bright. Software isn't a huge deal for most people and somehow final mouse seems to have marketed it as an upside and duped people in to thinking it is worth paying more for a mouse that doesn't have optional software. Don't ask me how, but I've had people literally tell me my g303 wasn't as good as their final mouse because it wasn't driverless and I just sat there laughing. They went on to tell me how I was an idiot for saying CS:GO doesn't need the MarkC mouse fix and that all games need it to have true 1:1 input. It was quite a display of idiocy. A fair price for the scream one would actually be like 50$ IMO. It is going to be similar to g303 and probably actually inferior if you consider that it doesn't have software and won't have RGB lighting probably (not that those actually matter that much to me). More or less it has a different shape, probably not quite as nice buttons, and absolutely nothing that justifies it costing more than the g303 as far as cost of production or features. Hell I got my g303 for 25$ on sale. I don't think anyone actually expects FM to have reasonably priced product though. FM and Zowie definitely stick out to me as the most over prices manufacturers.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> It does have lights. In fact people have said the lights on the tournament pro which is the same shell are blindingly bright. Software isn't a huge deal for most people and somehow final mouse seems to have marketed it as an upside and duped people in to thinking it is worth paying more for a mouse that doesn't have optional software. Don't ask me how, but I've had people literally tell me my g303 wasn't as good as their final mouse because it wasn't driverless and I just sat there laughing. They went on to tell me how I was an idiot for saying CS:GO doesn't need the MarkC mouse fix and that all games need it to have true 1:1 input. It was quite a display of idiocy. A fair price for the scream one would actually be like 50$ IMO. It is going to be similar to g303 and probably actually inferior if you consider that it doesn't have software and won't have RGB lighting probably (not that those actually matter that much to me). More or less it has a different shape, probably not quite as nice buttons, and absolutely nothing that justifies it costing more than the g303 as far as cost of production or features. Hell I got my g303 for 25$ on sale. I don't think anyone actually expects FM to have reasonably priced product though. FM and Zowie definitely stick out to me as the most over prices manufacturers.


I don't mind the software either problem is that with that comes default dpi's, and I don't like that.
I care about the lights but at the same time don't, as long as i am happy with it i am fine.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> Disa freaking pointing
> 
> Was hoping this would be an intellimouse looking shape.


That is the scream 2 apparently


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They can change the bottom mold to put Scream's signature instead of spraying it on the mouse.
> 
> If some people buy this mouse because it has "Scream" on it they will want it to stay there. Spraying the signature onto a heavy wear area isn't smart. If the coating starts to wear...
> So no D2F-01F switches?


https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/698578016608370688


----------



## Aventadoor

And when they say "will be equipped with a new 3360 sensor implementation we designed from the ground up", they actually mean just a regular 3360 with stock lens etc .D


----------



## Bucake

i just have no faith in this company at all..
i'll just wait for reviews from respectable people. only they can change my mind about FM and their mice!


----------



## popups

So Chinese switches and encoder instead of ALPS and D2F-01F?


----------



## QLsya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> It does have lights. In fact people have said the lights on the tournament pro which is the same shell are blindingly bright. Software isn't a huge deal for most people and somehow final mouse seems to have marketed it as an upside and duped people in to thinking it is worth paying more for a mouse that doesn't have optional software. Don't ask me how, but I've had people literally tell me my g303 wasn't as good as their final mouse because it wasn't driverless and I just sat there laughing. They went on to tell me how I was an idiot for saying CS:GO doesn't need the MarkC mouse fix and that all games need it to have true 1:1 input. It was quite a display of idiocy.


lol


----------



## pixie99

@finalmouse tweeted that it will have lighter weight mmm. Not sure lighter compared to what.


----------



## kashim

screamone have better build quality and better switch?is overall better


----------



## Ihateallmice

what they're saying is that the weight will now be what the site says instead of 10 grams heavier.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> screamone have better build quality and better switch?is overall better


Based off their recent tweet, it appears they are not going to use "better" switches [D2F-01F] and the ALPS encoder. Just 20m variant switches, the 3360 and Scream's name on the mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> what they're saying is that the weight will now be what the site says instead of 10 grams heavier.


Maybe 2-5g lighter due to the 3360 foot print. If they really cared it would be much lighter, but I doubt they would design the mouse that way seeing how they still have the very distracting LED on it.


----------



## vanir1337

If I wouldn't live in such a 3rdie middle European country I'd MIGHT consider buying it, for the sake of reviewing or something but cba with this pricing.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Based off their recent tweet, it appears they are not going to use "better" switches [D2F-01F] and the ALPS encoder.


no d2f-01f... understandable because of potential durability concerns
no alps encoder... ?????????why not? aren't they supposedly more durable than other mechanical encoders?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no d2f-01f... understandable because of potential durability concerns
> no alps encoder... ?????????why not? aren't they supposedly more durable than other mechanical encoders?


How are your d2f-3-7's holding up? Same durability as the d2f-01f's?


----------



## qsxcv

haven't soldered them into any mice yet









my g100s with 01f's has been fine so far. but i haven't really used them heavily and i'm using a wmo half the time
the issue with 01f's is that you get used to them too quickly, and then when you try to use a mouse with 7n's you feel like you're pressing springs.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> haven't soldered them into any mice yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my g100s with 01f's has been fine so far. but i haven't really used them heavily and i'm using a wmo half the time
> the issue with 01f's is that you get used to them too quickly, and then when you try to use a mouse with 7n's you feel like you're pressing springs.


Is it possible to put 01Fs in a WMO?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no d2f-01f... understandable because of potential durability concerns
> no alps encoder... ?????????why not? aren't they supposedly more durable than other mechanical encoders?


I am guessing they are not going to use the Japanese components because of price/sourcing. They just went with 20m variants instead.

Do people want more actuations instead of improved feedback on the Scream mice? I already seen like 3-5 people complaining about the buttons on the TP.

I am really not excited about this Scream version, It's nothing like I imagined. I'm not into the less desirable components, braided cable, LEDs, sprayed on coatings, translucent ABS, horrible shaped mouse feet, etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Is it possible to put 01Fs in a WMO?


I have seen D2F-01F switches solder into a WMO for the main buttons. I don't think I have seen a non tact switch used for mouse 3.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I have seen D2F-01F switches solder into a WMO for the main buttons. I don't think I have seen a non tact switch used for mouse 3.


Thanks. Any idea where I can buy those little black square ones? If you're wondering why, my WMO is in need of refurbishment.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Thanks. Any idea where I can buy those little black square ones? If you're wondering why, my WMO is in need of refurbishment.


It's some Panasonic switch. I don't remember exactly. Something like this.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EVQ-P0E07K/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsgGjVA3toVBD7mf%2f2GzdOf8FK2GvxtiIA%3d
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-electronic-components/evqp0e07k/switch-6-2x6-2mm-0-74n/dp/2079570


----------



## m0uz

I wish I had the dough to get the regular ambi. That thing's crazy overpriced, nevermind the extra 20 quid for some colour and a sig


----------



## favoxhille

is the size closer to a kinzu v3 or fk2?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> is the size closer to a kinzu v3 or fk2?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/3570_30#post_24774347


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I wish I had the dough to get the regular ambi. That thing's crazy overpriced, nevermind the extra 20 quid for some colour and a sig


As far as I can see, there is no "regular ambI" ?
The mouse 4-5 buttons are on one side only.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/3570_30#post_24774347


I wish it was a little bit taller. 39mm is too flat for me.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I wish it was a little bit taller. 39mm is too flat for me.


39mm is very tall for my ~19cm hand. It can hurt my wrist to have a mouse that's close to 40mm. If the arch of the shape is good, a 36-38mm mouse will be great.


----------



## kashim

guys general quality and mouse clicl input lag are good?need to change my g502...to heavy for my low sense


----------



## bruzanHD

Just like with all the other FMs DON'T BUY THE FIRST RELEASE. There will be bugs and most likely bad QC.


----------



## Dreyka

Why can't Finalmouse just do the obvious thing.

White bottom shell. Black top shell. No LED. White logo on top shell. Black Scream signature underneath side buttons on bottom shell.

Distinctive design that doesn't look tacky and matches their colors.

The white bottom shell makes it very distinctive from Tournament Pro as well.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viowastaken*
> 
> As far as I can see, there is no "regular ambI" ?
> The mouse 4-5 buttons are on one side only.


I know there are only 2 side buttons on the left side. I meant "regular ambi" as in the Tournament Pro. Did you not know that it used to be called the "Tournament Ambi" for a short while after release? Sorry for any confusion.

Edit: https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/644005528448958464?lang=en


----------



## Ickz

I would never use a piece of hardware branded with a "pro gamer" signature, team logo, etc. It's just too cringy for me.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I would never use a piece of hardware branded with a "pro gamer" signature, team logo, etc. It's just too cringy for me.


Some of those team variants are "stylish" compared to the standard model.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I would never use a piece of hardware branded with a "pro gamer" signature, team logo, etc. It's just too cringy for me.


At this point, I would even use a pink fluorescent mouse as long as the shape is right and the sensor is 3366 (3360) or similar material.

Look at it like this, for the "casual" player who idolizes Scream, there's the ZOMG SIGNATURE = Sell point.

For the better player or those simply interested in a better sensor in a decent shape, there's ... well the reality, a 3360 in this particular shape.

Though it wouldn't surprise me, that after enough sales have been reached and the 3310 reaches EOL, this will become the "main" Tournament Pro, it seems the most logical path.

Then again, they need to release this fast, because else they'll simply loose sales in a niche market where Zowie and some other brands could easily steal the spotlight as soon as they jump the 3360 bandwagon.

And then there's also Logitech's G900, which seems to aim at filling every possible market "hole" there is (wireless, a weight that seems ok'ish, good sensor, potentially better shape then a G303 for alot of people, most likely higher build quality, ...).


----------



## Maximillion

^Agreed.

Between the Scream One and G900 I think a good chunk of people will be "satisfied" going forward (probably moreso w/ the G900 since FM as a company rubs some the wrong way, but whatevs). At that point, the wait will simply be for the 3360 to be introduced to a greater variety of shapes within the market for certain niches. In other words, these mice will become the new G303, something we "deal with" until a more ideal product eventually surfaces. Shape shouldn't be as _much_ an issue for the majority, but *insert technical/design flaw here* for the S1 and weight for the G900 are potential shortcomings.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> ^Agreed.
> 
> Between the Scream One and G900 I think a good chunk of people will be "satisfied" going forward (probably moreso w/ the G900 since FM as a company rubs some the wrong way, but whatevs). At that point, the wait will simply be for the 3360 to be introduced to a greater variety of shapes within the market for certain niches. In other words, these mice will become the new G303, something we "deal with" until a more ideal product eventually surfaces. Shape shouldn't be as _much_ an issue for the majority, but *insert technical/design flaw here* for the S1 and weight for the G900 are potential shortcomings.


I heared something around ~107g for the new G900 ( include or exclude Accu, but if I saw it right u can swap it out )


----------



## CorruptBE

I recon if we strip all the "useless" stuff out (not just the accu, but also the "click" or whatever mechanicsm for it), we most likely could get the G900 nearer to 90 to 95g if what they state is true.


----------



## qsxcv

what's the "accu"?


----------



## Melan

Accumulator. Fancy name for rechargeable batteries.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> At this point, I would even use a pink fluorescent mouse as long as the shape is right and the sensor is 3366 (3360) or similar material.
> 
> Look at it like this, for the "casual" player who idolizes Scream, there's the ZOMG SIGNATURE = Sell point.
> 
> For the better player or those simply interested in a better sensor in a decent shape, there's ... well the reality, a 3360 in this particular shape.
> 
> Though it wouldn't surprise me, that after enough sales have been reached and the 3310 reaches EOL, this will become the "main" Tournament Pro, it seems the most logical path.
> 
> Then again, they need to release this fast, because else they'll simply loose sales in a niche market where Zowie and some other brands could easily steal the spotlight as soon as they jump the 3360 bandwagon.
> 
> And then there's also Logitech's G900, which seems to aim at filling every possible market "hole" there is (wireless, a weight that seems ok'ish, good sensor, potentially better shape then a G303 for alot of people, most likely higher build quality, ...).


is there anything leaked about g900? i highly doubt they'd make a good shape, most likely more junk like g602


----------



## Melan

There already been 2 threads about G900 with pictures. They got deleted because NDA. Check back in march.


----------



## qsxcv

yea


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what's the "accu"?


accumulator .....
sorry ...
in german rechargeable batteries are called "Accu" , it's just the , I think wrong term , of Accumulator









btw ... batteries are nearly never rechargeable for us germans







, only Accus ( Akku ) are it ...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what's the "accu"?


I was also left staring at that word trying to figure out what the hell it meant.


----------



## qsxcv

given how bad logitech's cables tend to be, i think i would rather use the g900 in wireless mode


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> is there anything leaked about g900? i highly doubt they'd make a good shape, most likely more junk like g602


http://www.shooter-szene.de/hardware/bilder-der-logitech-g900-geleaked.html


----------



## Melan

You could also stick to this thread too since this one is like 8 pages about finalmouse and what not.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You could also stick to this thread too since this one is like 8 pages about finalmouse and what not.


yea, u're right , but there are all Information shorted ...
but u're right , extern linked isnt nice ...


----------



## kashim

when scream mouse will be released?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> given how bad logitech's cables tend to be, i think i would rather use the g900 in wireless mode


Has anyone dissected their dead Logitech cable to see how they are assembled and why it failed? Do they twist the pairs? Do they use foil shielding? Do they use a tinned braided or twisted shielding? How thick is the jacket? What kind of jacket material are they using?

Zowie's cable (from what I can tell) uses a small amount of twisted copper for shielding, no twisted pairs and a medium size thickness for the jacket. I don't know what they use for the jacket -- it's tacky, flexible and not very resilient to cutting. The cable is ~3mm in thickness. The earlier cable didn't have any ferrite, on the later cable they added a ferrite to the USB end.



The WMO's cable (from what I can tell) has foil and twisted copper shielding, no twisted pairs and a thick jacket. The cable is ~3.5mm in thickness. The IMO and WMO only have a ferrite at the USB end of the cable, whereas the IE3 has a ferrite at both ends.



As you can see, if you want a thinner and lighter cable than Zowie's cable, they would have to get rid of the shielding and make the jacket extremely thin. Making the jacket extremely thin will lead to early splitting (like you can get with the old Razer Diamondback cable). I don't know if people would accept a cable without any shielding whatsoever. Zowie's cable could have some foil shielding without adding very noticeable thickness or weight.

Does nylon braid, on the outside of the cable, create some extra static electricity when it rubs against some mouse pads? Wouldn't it be a very bad idea to use paracord DIY cables that doesn't twist the pairs and doesn't have shielding?


----------



## RDno1

The 3360 is happening! Not sure if I wanna wait for Zowie to jump on the bandwagon... Hmmm...


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Not gonna lie, I actually liked that color scheme. But that signature... meh


yeah, i just want a good mouse, i don't give a damn about some cs:go kid.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> The 3360 is happening! Not sure if I wanna wait for Zowie to jump on the bandwagon... Hmmm...


Everyone is going to want the PMW-3360 for that high CPI marketing. Demand likely well outstrips supply with the PMW-3360. Only Final Mouse and Steelseries have announced mice that will use this sensor but that doesn't necessarily mean they've secured a quantity of them.


----------



## Atavax

i'll probably get one just because i want a light weight mouse with a decent sensor. I was debating whether to get the 3310 or wait for this version. I thought the scream was actually going to be heavier, so now that i know its going to be lighter, definitely going to wait for the scream one.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i'll probably get one just because i want a light weight mouse with a decent sensor. I was debating whether to get the 3310 or wait for this version. I thought the scream was actually going to be heavier, so now that i know its going to be lighter, definitely going to wait for the scream one.


If it's actually lighter, it might be ~3g lighter (based off what I have seen so far).


----------



## Atavax

yeah, i shouldn't of said definitely get it. I will definitely wait for it to come out. Will have to wait and see how much more it costs...


----------



## Vantavia

This will be a welcome break from logitech's spergonomics. Please don't eff it up.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Everyone is going to want the PMW-3360 for that high CPI marketing. Demand likely well outstrips supply with the PMW-3360. Only Final Mouse and Steelseries have announced mice that will use this sensor but that doesn't necessarily mean they've secured a quantity of them.


or everyone will use the phillips twin eye bs that can go even higher. I also think a lot of consumers are recognizing they already have more than enough dpi...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/3570_30#post_24774347


I knew something was up with these specs listed: _5.4" x 2.2" x 2.1" inches_


----------



## popups

Has Scream played with the Scream1 yet or is that simply a "concept" mouse?

I spent the money I was going to use on the Sceam1 after I read it wasn't going to have the encoder and switches as claimed. I bought a G100S and a ZA13 (one of them won't survive).


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Has Scream played with the Scream1 yet or is that simply a "concept" mouse?
> 
> I spent the money I was going to use on the Sceam1 after I read it wasn't going to have the encoder and switches as claimed. I bought a G100S and a ZA13 (one of them won't survive).


Was watching ESL Expo Barcelona this past weekend, and everytime the camera panned to ScreaM, they would stop right before they showed his mouse/mousepad


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Has Scream played with the Scream1 yet or is that simply a "concept" mouse?
> 
> I spent the money I was going to use on the Sceam1 after I read it wasn't going to have the encoder and switches as claimed. I bought a G100S and a ZA13 (one of them won't survive).


what switches and encoder did they claim it had? what does it have? same as the tp?


----------



## qsxcv

until they post a picture of their pcb, i will assume it is a "concept" mouse


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> what switches and encoder did they claim it had? what does it have? same as the tp?


They said it will have 20m Chinese Omron switches. They didn't mention the encoder, therefore I assume it will be the same one being used in their other products seeing they didn't go with D2F-01F switches.

The only reason I was going to try out the Scream1 was the switches and the encoder. Now there is zero reason for me to try it. It would be a better idea to wait for other companies to release a 3360 with more functionality and build quality.

FinalMouse could have done something unpredictable/crazy if they went with Bloody's optical switches and an optical encoder. That would have kept me interested in the Scream1.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> until they post a picture of their pcb, i will assume it is a "concept" mouse


I didn't want to call them out, especially now that it seems they went cold/missing.


----------



## crovean

scream was using the tournament pro because he didn't have enough time to adjust to a new sensor so close to an event. should be playing with the scream one now.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> scream was using the tournament pro because he didn't have enough time to adjust to a new sensor so close to an event. should be playing with the scream one now.


We are talking about the Scream1 mouse. What's the point of him using the 3310 variant over the 3360? It's suspect that the Scream1 he unveiled on stream actually has a 3360 inside.


----------



## qsxcv

as i said before, what scream showed on stream is most likely just the scream1 shell with the same 3310/holtek internals as the tp

i doubt they have the 3360 pcb and firmware ready. it's not impossible to make a new pcb and firmware so quickly, but given how jude tends to showcase things prematurely, it's most likely theyre still working on it


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Scream doesn't seem to be the type of guy to just open up random stuff to see whats inside it. So most likely is just the new shell and same tp internals.


----------



## qsxcv

maybe someone donate and ask "can we get a closeup of the lens of the scream1 you showed us?"


----------



## crovean

he would have used the scream one in barcelona if it had the same internals. why wouldn't he? he mentioned on stream he wouldn't start using it as his main mouse until after this event because of the sensor difference. although you're right he won't open the mouse anyway because he has no idea what he's looking at.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> he would have used the scream one in barcelona if it had the same internals. why wouldn't he? he mentioned on stream he wouldn't start using it as his main mouse until after this event because of the sensor difference. although you're right he won't open the mouse anyway because he has no idea what he's looking at.


I thought he was using an ergonomic Finalmouse, so the shape would be different.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I thought he was using an ergonomic Finalmouse, so the shape would be different.


he is using the ergonomic one, he should be onto the new shape now after the tourney. He showed on stream he was still using the Ergo until after.


----------



## DadeBound

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> he is using the ergonomic one, he should be onto the new shape now after the tourney. He showed on stream he was still using the Ergo until after.


I actually doubt he will be using it until after the major. With the new pot of 1mill on the line and it being a major. Not need to risk changing anything so soon when such a big event is near.


----------



## Vantavia

Message @ [email protected] with requests for optical mouse buttons/scroll wheel, maybe it'll happen







They /claim/ that feedback is forwarded.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> given how bad logitech's cables tend to be, i think i would rather use the g900 in wireless mode
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone dissected their dead Logitech cable to see how they are assembled and why it failed? Do they twist the pairs? Do they use foil shielding? Do they use a tinned braided or twisted shielding? How thick is the jacket? What kind of jacket material are they using?
Click to expand...

g100s cable is foil
no idea what the newer logitech's ones are.
well, i know for sure that my g502 cable is shielded by lead pipes








Quote:


> Zowie's cable (from what I can tell) uses a small amount of twisted copper for shielding, no twisted pairs and a medium size thickness for the jacket. I don't know what they use for the jacket -- it's tacky, flexible and not very resilient to cutting. The cable is ~3mm in thickness. The earlier cable didn't have any ferrite, on the later cable they added a ferrite to the USB end.
> 
> 
> 
> The WMO's cable (from what I can tell) has foil and twisted copper shielding, no twisted pairs and a thick jacket. The cable is ~3.5mm in thickness. The IMO and WMO only have a ferrite at the USB end of the cable, whereas the IE3 has a ferrite at both ends.
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, if you want a thinner and lighter cable than Zowie's cable, they would have to get rid of the shielding and make the jacket extremely thin. Making the jacket extremely thin will lead to early splitting (like you can get with the old Razer Diamondback cable). I don't know if people would accept a cable without any shielding whatsoever. Zowie's cable could have some foil shielding without adding very noticeable thickness or weight.


would be pretty surprising if the pairs aren't twisted.

fyi my stripped da cable is ~2.7mm and has braided aluminum shielding
Quote:


> Does nylon braid, on the outside of the cable, create some extra static electricity when it rubs against some mouse pads?


doesn't matter
Quote:


> Wouldn't it be a very bad idea to use paracord DIY cables that doesn't twist the pairs and doesn't have shielding?


apparently not since it works for people.
but like many other things in life, it's "not recommended"


----------



## Poodle

So when can I buy this Scream One? (I actually like the signature and Scream fans even more so)


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> So when can I buy this Scream One? (I actually like the signature and Scream fans even more so)


don t know.actually not released...someone have any info about release date?


----------



## Vyrth

They tweeted last week that they would reveal some more stuff about the Scream one this week, but nothing so far.

https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/702577275670237184


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vyrth*
> 
> They tweeted last week that they would reveal some more stuff about the Scream one this week, but nothing so far.
> 
> https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/702577275670237184


Today and tomorrow left.. hopefully they don't skip the announcement lol..


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Today and tomorrow left.. hopefully they don't skip the announcement lol..


really hope that because wanna give my g502 to my friend and buy screamone as soon as possible


----------



## aayman_farzand

They announce an announcement and then fail to deliver....

What can this team do right?


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> They announce an announcement and then fail to deliver....
> 
> What can this team do right?


They know how to put flashlights on mice.


----------



## qsxcv

lol... so anyway, what happened to the ces video?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol... so anyway, what happened to the ces video?


Since the DreamMachines mouse was seen using the FinalMouse PCB it appears FinalMouse dropped off the map for the most part.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol... so anyway, what happened to the ces video?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Since the DreamMachines mouse was seen using the FinalMouse PCB it appears FinalMouse dropped off the map for the most part.


All part of Ashkon's master plan.


----------



## RDno1

Maybe they will release the news tonight around the time of the IEM Katowice grand final when all of CS is online.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Is this the first 3366/3360 mouse that doesn't weigh 8kg or look like a spaceship? I'd be very willing to try my luck with their QC if so.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Looking forward to the early adopter reviews on this one. No wobbly loose feeling M1 and M2 and I'll be sold for sure, I'll just airbrush over the signature.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Is this the first 3366/3360 mouse that doesn't weigh 8kg or look like a spaceship? I'd be very willing to try my luck with their QC if so.


Probably the only reason why we're interested, but yes I'd try my luck too at this point


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol... so anyway, what happened to the ces video?
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Since the DreamMachines mouse was seen using the FinalMouse PCB it appears FinalMouse dropped off the map for the most part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All part of Ashkon's master plan.
Click to expand...

oh
i just realized that dreammachines is yet another random new company
surely it can't be another one of ashkon's right...


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Is this the first 3366/3360 mouse that doesn't weigh 8kg or look like a spaceship? I'd be very willing to try my luck with their QC if so.


yeah but you get a tacky looking mouse in place of the space ship and forced to have a bright LED 24/7 and only have a few dpi steps on a mouse with a 3360 sensor lol


----------



## CorruptBE

*Solution:*



VS



Or even better:

Spare skates + Screwdriver = Profit??


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> yeah but you get a tacky looking mouse in place of the space ship and forced to have a bright LED 24/7 and only have a few dpi steps on a mouse with a 3360 sensor lol


I can't wait for the dpi steps to be limited to 400/800/1600. Cue Jude saying that by limiting the dpi steps they can increase computation power to bleed more horsepower and performance for pro esports players, to bleed even more performance the 1000hz feature will be removed. Then he will elaborate on wanting to change their factory to LaView, while stating that LaView is in the same league as Foxconn.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I can't wait for the dpi steps to be limited to 400/800/1600. Cue Jude saying that by limiting the dpi steps they can increase computation power to bleed more horsepower and performance for pro esports players, to bleed even more performance the 1000hz feature will be removed. Then he will elaborate on wanting to change their factory to LaView, while stating that LaView is in the same league as Foxconn.


You just don't understand, we have OPTIMIZED the experience of the ScreamOne by limiting the DPI selection to 400 and 450, this was a design choice made by our veteran engineers and programmers to further lower the angular granularity because a higher sensitivity in Source means that you will get a more accurate movement between two angles. /sarcasm


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> You just don't understand, we have OPTIMIZED the experience of the ScreamOne by limiting the DPI selection to 400 and 450, this was a design choice made by our veteran engineers and programmers to further lower the angular granularity because a higher sensitivity in Source means that you will get a more accurate movement between two angles. /sarcasm


Lmaoo +1


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> *Solution:*
> 
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> 
> 
> Or even better:
> 
> Spare skates + Screwdriver = Profit??


Voids warranty.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/706678113934118912


Good. Aboot time.


----------



## JustinSane

The new info: http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences


----------



## Poodle

So early April to mid.. so its about 1 month and then we can buy it. Yay. Prolly 79,99 € in Europe. Specs look fine.


----------



## RDno1

Sensor a little higher too, so more like WMO I suppose. I want one


----------



## CorruptBE

So much mumbojumbo in that link, while simply:


Has a 3360
Shape won't kill your hand
Doesn't weigh a metric ton
Oh and we put teh name scream on it
Would've sufficed for me.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## t00t

The shape and features are pretty much perfect in terms of what I'm looking for - I just wish there was an all-black option a la the Tournament Pro.


----------



## aLv1080

Better than expected, honestly



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



"The Scream One of course utilizes the 3360 sensor implementation we developed from the ground up right here at the finalmouse"

EleGiggle


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Better than expected, honestly
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> "The Scream One of course utilizes the 3360 sensor implementation we developed from the ground up right here at the finalmouse"
> 
> EleGiggle


aha







... I dont believe they developed the 3360 Sensor from the ground up ...


----------



## Bucake

pretty sure he's saying they did the sensor _implementation_ from the ground up.
i'm skeptical about their capabilities of implementing sensors well, however. but we'll see


----------



## Dylan Nails

$77 for a mouse with no software and no all black version, ite finalmouse


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> $77 for a mouse with no software and no all black version, ite finalmouse


I spent that much on a ZA13 and G100S.

FinalMouse wants $77 for oddly shaped feet, a biaided cable, Chinese Omrons and a TTC encoder? I thought they were going with D2F-01F switches, an ALPS encoder and IntelliMouse shaped feet.

I rather use my WMO, IMO, FK, AM or G100S.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

I am bit concerned that there still isn't a FinalMouse that will let me turn off the LED or the option of polling rate adjustments. But they still ask for $77? I get scream is a pro, but I think having the option of a black version or anything like that would be nice, or not have screams name on mouse 1. maybe replace the FM logo with screams name to glow instead? This still feels pretty gimmicky to me. Guess I can't knock it till I try it, right? I never understood the pricing, what exactly are you paying for? Is it the sensor? Not to knock anyone that has it or wants it, I am just interested

I might be the only one but I really like the color!


----------



## Klopfer

I'm excited about the sensor ( Public 3366 Version ) , but in the near future there will be many more mices with that sensor ... Steelseries announced the Rival 700 with 3360 Sensor too ...
btw and yes , why always choose mousefeets which are not easy to get from 3rd partty ? , whats wrong with "classic" 1.1/3.0 skatez ? why dont choose that shape of skatez ?


----------



## qsxcv

lOl

is it just me, or is does sensor hole looks like it was designed for 3310...
3366/3360's lens' only needs a tiny cutout
e.g.

vs


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> The new info: http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences


Interesting that they mention 3360 being fixed framerate in the next post on that tumblr page.
"Classic variable framerate (3310) or higher-horsepower, fixed framerate (3360)"


----------



## qsxcv

that's wrong and jude even admitted so here. not sure why it hasnt been corrected


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> that's wrong and jude even admitted so here. not sure why it hasnt been corrected


Why be honest when you can mislead and sell a little bit more units.









Did they ever fix the weight on the site?


----------



## Aventadoor

People talk negativ about their marketing etc etc, but you still buy their mice?

But I completly agree, they emerge kinda sloppy. Always going for the cheapest solutions etc.
Considering their QC history, it shouldent cost more then 50 bucks.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> People talk negativ about their marketing etc etc, but you still buy their mice?
> 
> But I completly agree, they emerge kinda sloppy. Always going for the cheapest solutions etc.
> Considering their QC history, it shouldent cost more then 50 bucks.


I'm honestly speechless as to them wanting $80 for this when the G303 can be found for $40 and is better in every way except for the shape.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> What about mass?
> 
> Finalmouse 70-80 grams
> 
> G303, 87 grams.


If I remember correctly the 76g they claimed was actually a "mistake" (see: marketing lies) made by an engineer who forgot some "mouse parts" and it's actually 80g+ with cable.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> What is the true mass then?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/4270#post_24858014

Judging by this post (I can't be hecked to find the image.) it's about 86g.


----------



## Poodle

Is Scream one better than DM1 Pro? Reddit says Scream One has bad firmware and some bad internal components? So if 3360 implementation is bad then DM1 Pro 3310 is better mouse in general?


----------



## frewp

scream one isn't even out yet, i doubt people on reddit know what they're talking about


----------



## Soo8

Can you guys at FM start putting non-braided cables on your mice? Braided cables have no redeeming features going for them. They are overly heavy, stiff as in inflexible, and most have kinks in them from the way they are stuffed inside the box. Just as the "driverless" thing became a fad because esports, advertise rubber cables as a feature. Something like "Rubber cable for optimum LOW-friction performance on cloth pads. Only for pros". You guys have the "esports" crowd to start a movement against braided cables. And it's a win-win. We get no braided cables again, and you guys can use cheaper rubber cables.

God I hate braided cables.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Is Scream one better than DM1 Pro? Reddit says Scream One has bad firmware and some bad internal components? So if 3360 implementation is bad then DM1 Pro 3310 is better mouse in general?


Can you link this reddit discussion?


----------



## Poodle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Can you link this reddit discussion?


Just google it. They pretty much state that Scream One is " glorified chinese stock oem" and "no driver support".


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Just google it. They pretty much state that Scream One is " glorified chinese stock oem" and "no driver support".


Are you talking about this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/49bekj/finalmouse_scream_one/

Because if you are, this is not what they are saying at all:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Reddit says Scream One has bad firmware and some bad internal components?


Not defending FM or anything but i can't really see how you jumped to that conclusion.


----------



## Dreyka

Is the Scream One going to have LEDs? Will it be possibly to turn them off?

What cable material will be used?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Just google it. They pretty much state that Scream One is " glorified chinese stock oem" and "no driver support".


Well that is what the Ergo is.

Finalmouse is massively overpriced and offering even less functionality than Zowie. They still haven't fixed the weights on amazon.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Is the Scream One going to have LEDs? Will it be possibly to turn them off?
> 
> What cable material will be used?
> 
> Well that is what the Ergo is.
> 
> Finalmouse is massively overpriced and offering even less functionality than Zowie. They still haven't fixed the weights on amazon.


From the website with all the info on the Scream 1, it didn't sound like they have the ability to turn it off but rather, "changed the LED to something thats a little dimmer"
http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences

edit: thought it was on there, I must have read it somewhere else


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> From the website with all the info on the Scream 1, it didn't sound like they have the ability to turn it off but rather, "changed the LED to something thats a little dimmer"
> http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences
> 
> edit: thought it was on there, I must have read it somewhere else


Quote:


> Companies would throw on tacky LED lighting...
> 
> ...Designed to be the industry standard. No gimmicks, no frills, just pure performance for esports athletes.


Hilariously, that is from their own blog. If you can't turn off the LED don't include it at all. Dimming the intensity doesn't solve the fundamental problem.


----------



## povohat

It's on there.
Quote:


> Changes that are also going into the new Tournament Pro batch:
> ...
> -Reduction of logo/mousewheel light intensity


----------



## aLv1080

I'm honestly happy to see them getting bigger and improving their mice, but there are a few small things they could've done to improve their product even more.

A combination of buttons to turn the LED on/off, change the LOD, the polling rate. A better cable would help, maybe improve their QC even more, put the DPI button under the mouse, etc. Maybe allowing us to enable smoothing and angle snapping would be super interesting.
Or another option too: A basic software to change these things, and an option to make different profiles with DPI steps and saving it in the mouse, so you wont need to have the software installed when you go to lans or whatever.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I'm honestly happy to see them getting bigger and improving their mice, but there are a few small things they could've done to improve their product even more.
> 
> A combination of buttons to turn the LED on/off, change the LOD, the polling rate. A better cable would help, maybe improve their QC even more, put the DPI button under the mouse, etc. Maybe allowing us to enable smoothing and angle snapping would be super interesting.
> Or another option too: A basic software to change these things, and an option to make different profiles with DPI steps and saving it in the mouse, so you wont need to have the software installed when you go to lans or whatever.


You don't understand. This is an ESPORTS gaming mouse so it needs to have gimmicks like LEDs and braided cables. We don't have the technology at this time to change polling rate without software or adjust the LOD to high for people using surfaces like a Steelseries I-2. If you have a computer that isn't stable at 1000Hz then you need to pay $70 for the inferior Tournament Pro. Finalmouse is on the cutting edge of esports technology for esports gamers wanting esports products and if I say esports enough all the problems go away. People are too dumb to be able to change polling rate with a button combination or to turn the LED off. Let Finalmouse do the thinking for you.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I'm honestly happy to see them getting bigger and improving their mice, but there are a few small things they could've done to improve their product even more.
> 
> A combination of buttons to turn the LED on/off, change the LOD, the polling rate. A better cable would help, maybe improve their QC even more, put the DPI button under the mouse, etc. Maybe allowing us to enable smoothing and angle snapping would be super interesting.
> Or another option too: A basic software to change these things, and an option to make different profiles with DPI steps and saving it in the mouse, so you wont need to have the software installed when you go to lans or whatever.


Sounds like a Ducky Secret! Except the software part and saving DPI profiles. At any rate I'm surprised they haven't at least took into account what people are saying about the mice and fixed some of the issues. I guess fixing the LED is a step forward?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> You don't understand. This is an ESPORTS gaming mouse so it needs to have gimmicks like LEDs and braided cables. We don't have the technology at this time to change polling rate without software or adjust the LOD to high for people using surfaces like a Steelseries I-2. If you have a computer that isn't stable at 1000Hz then you need to pay $70 for the inferior Tournament Pro. Finalmouse is on the cutting edge of esports technology for esports gamers wanting esports products and if I say esports enough all the problems go away. People are too dumb to be able to change polling rate with a button combination or to turn the LED off. Let Finalmouse do the thinking for you.


lol


----------



## DadeBound

I really hope they end up making different variations. Not sure if by then other 3360 mice will be out there but I simply want a ScreamOne with out the rear led or the option to turn it off along with no signature and a choice of top color. Wonder what the next mouse will look like.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> From the website with all the info on the Scream 1, it didn't sound like they have the ability to turn it off but rather, "changed the LED to something thats a little dimmer"


Cripplemouse.

On the subject of firmware. Friends don't let friends use E-Signal firmware in their mice.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> offering even less functionality than Zowie.


But but...

It offers 3360!

(pretty sad that I'm not even joking tbh :x)


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> But but...
> 
> It offers 3360!
> 
> (pretty sad that I'm not even joking tbh :x)


Zowie will for sure put that sensor in all their current products.. we all know that


----------



## qsxcv

if zowie never even bothered with 3988, why would they bother with 3360?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if zowie never even bothered with 3988, why would they bother with 3360?


I've always wondered why they didn't use the 3988..has there been any comment from Zowie, or any logical explanation?


----------



## qsxcv

iirc woll3 mentioned part of it is because 3090 and 3310 share the same form factor, so less effort to redesign shells/pcbs to accomodate the 3310 than for the 3988
3360 is a completely different package as well... so it will be interesting to see what happens


----------



## kingfoxii

I think zowie is all about making mice for gaming without lights, drivers and other stuff you dont need. When it comes to sensors its maybe the same. Why do you need a 3360 sensor? It is not more accurate than the 3310. Its a better sensor but its not more accurate. As a gamer you want a sensor that tracks perfect. the rest doesnt interest you if you hit your shots.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> Why do you need a 3360 sensor? It is not more accurate than the 3310.


well if you trust things insiders say... actually it is lol


----------



## Bucake

maybe you have a point, because it's not like you can't win pro tournaments with a 3310.
i can imagine they would only bother to update because it would give them a strong marketing point. i wouldn't be surprised if they did release a 3360 mouse, but i also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't..
i'm certainly curious as to how the newer 3360 mice will match up against logitech theirs. differences are probably tiny?


----------



## kingfoxii

you have a sensor with 0 acceleration, that tracks perfect on your mousepad.. what can a sensor do better to make it more accurate?`Its not about this one is 90% accurate and this one is 91% accurate. its more this sensor is doing 1:1 my movements. The only things that can be done better is better tracking on complicated surface, high framerate for smother curser, better LOD, but if you ask me there is no way to make it more accurate that 1:1 pefekt tracking.


----------



## qsxcv

no mouse has 0 variance (what people complain about when they say "laser has accel")
supposedly 3310 (and its cousins 9500,9800,3988,3989) has higher variance than previous generations of sensors (e.g. 3090).


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> you have a sensor with 0 acceleration, that tracks perfect on your mousepad.. what can a sensor do better to make it more accurate?`Its not about this one is 90% accurate and this one is 91% accurate. its more this sensor is doing 1:1 my movements. The only things that can be done better is better tracking on complicated surface, high framerate for smother curser, better LOD, but if you ask me there is no way to make it more accurate that 1:1 pefekt tracking.


but a lot of that stuff isn't true, though. the 3310 has variance just like any other sensor, more so than most other sensors i've tried even.
it does not track well at all on some surfaces. so the 90% vs 91% thing is basically true. but 1:1 movement is a silly statement.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> maybe you have a point, because it's not like you can't win pro tournaments with a 3310.
> i can imagine they would only bother to update because it would give them a strong marketing point. i wouldn't be surprised if they did release a 3360 mouse, but i also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't..
> i'm certainly curious as to how the newer 3360 mice will match up against logitech theirs. differences are probably tiny?


i think most people that play with logitech mice think oh "damn this mouse feels so good"

hmm i have most of the 3310 mice on the market, the G303 / G502 and the Deathadder and i never had any problems with the tracking..

The best feeling of a sensor i have is probably the razer deathadder.. this is the only one that feels so responisv that i think it feels a little better to me. (But this is because the 3989 has a much higher framerate). I think its still not more accurate than the other one's.

I use this mousepads:

- Razer Goliathus Speed
- Razer Goliathus Control
- SteelSeries QCK
- SteelSeries QCK +
- SteelSeries QCK Heavy
- Logitech G240
- Logitech G440
- Logitech G640
- Roccat Hiro


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> i think most people that play with logitech mice think oh "damn this mouse feels so good"
> 
> hmm i have most of the 3310 mice on the market and i never had any problems with the tracking..
> 
> I use this mousepads:
> 
> - Razer Goliathus Speed
> - Razer Goliathus Control
> - SteelSeries QCK
> - SteelSeries QCK +
> - SteelSeries QCK Heavy
> - Logitech G240
> - Logitech G440
> - Logitech G640
> - Roccat Hiro


I have had plenty of weird skipping issues with the EC1-A on my Goliathus Control, haven't had any on my DM1 Pro but I generally don't like the feeling of the 3310 for some reason, feels like it's in mud to me while my Zowie AM on 2300 DPI doesn't feel like it's in mud, on 450 DPI it does feel like it's stuttering between moving and not moving though which is known as "pixel walk" apparently.


----------



## kingfoxii

I think the problem you have with the Goli Control is that zowie mice have no calibration because of no software. I have the same problem with the G303 but after the calibration it tracks perfect on the Goli Control. I dont think this is a problem of the sensor. Its more a problem of the right settings for the mouse.


----------



## ramraze

' - The Scream One of course utilizes the 3360 sensor implementation we developed from the ground up right here at finalmouse. The PCB circuity and design was re-engineered by us to utilize the new sensor as well as our new NXP processor. '

I find that somewhat hard to believe..


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> i think most people that play with logitech mice think oh "damn this mouse feels so good"
> 
> hmm i have most of the 3310 mice on the market, the G303 / G502 and the Deathadder and i never had any problems with the tracking..
> 
> The best feeling of a sensor i have is probably the razer deathadder.. this is the only one that feels so responisv that i think it feels a little better to me. (But this is because the 3989 has a much higher framerate). I think its still not more accurate than the other one's.
> 
> I use this mousepads:
> 
> - Razer Goliathus Speed
> - Razer Goliathus Control
> - SteelSeries QCK
> - SteelSeries QCK +
> - SteelSeries QCK Heavy
> - Logitech G240
> - Logitech G440
> - Logitech G640
> - Roccat Hiro


This is why cursor feeling is subjective, but hardware details/facts are not.

The sensor performance itself depends largely on the sensor implementation, and that's where Logitech shines. They have managed to squeeze a lot out of the sensors.
I have not tested a public 3360, but I can say that I can feel a pretty big difference in a 3310 and a 3366.
3310 is weak compared to it, technically speaking.
Just because you don't understand the need for anything better than a 3310, doesn't mean that it wouldn't be legit.

Let me ask you this - why do you need more fps than 60? Cause 60 is smooth enough? No, because it lowers frame render time + increases control responsiveness and many other things.

Or why do you need a quad core K unlocked edition OC'd - an i5-2400 is enough.. Same idea.

Just because you don't notice the benefits in 1 game doesn't mean they're not there.
So, when it comes to cursor feel, it is subjective. But when it comes to excellence and providing better hardware/firmware/implementation + constantly improving on the good to make it even better, then it's definitely needed.

Logitech is one of the only companies who really strive for excellence and aim to improve. Many companies just stay at mediocrity, do lazy updates and increase cpi. That's what we don't need.
Complacency will kill the market, as it will kill everything else.


----------



## hailey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> ' - The Scream One of course utilizes the 3360 sensor implementation we developed from the ground up right here at finalmouse. The PCB circuity and design was re-engineered by us to utilize the new sensor as well as our new NXP processor. '
> 
> I find that somewhat hard to believe..


FM take marketing speech to the next level by just lying about things, which is to say their engineers re-designed marketing speech from the ground up


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I'm honestly speechless as to them wanting $80 for this when the G303 can be found for $40 and is better in every way except for the shape.


I don't know man.. having software is a downside now a days, and I am pretty sure the materials use are better.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> I don't know man.. having software is a downside now a days, and I am pretty sure the materials use are better.


this must be sarcasm for both points right


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this must be sarcasm for both points right


Why would I be? driverless > software

There is no need to go into the settings and customize them to your own choice.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



yes


----------



## qsxcv

driverless and software are not mutually exclusive


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> driverless and software are not mutually exclusive


Exactly, I don't know why people always act like that's the case. There's absolutely nothing stopping a company from having Ducky Secret levels of customization built into the mouse as well as a Castor-like install-free software program. I mean I do know why people act like that, they've fallen for marketing. Especially since people always talk about "driverless" when that's really not even the proper term since those mice still use drivers, they just don't use software to modify settings.

Unless you're talking about Razer mice and Synapse, "driverless" is simply worse because you lose specific customization for no inherent gain. People always talk about "plug and play" but most mice have preset DPI settings you can cycle through out of the box just like the driverless mice. And if you want to customize further you just install, customize settings and save them to the mouse and then uninstall and your mouse will have those settings for any computer (skipping the install/uninstall for Castor-like software), i.e. plug and play. The whole driverless thing is just marketing designed to cover up companies not wanting to spend the time/money to develop software.

/rant


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Exactly, I don't know why people always act like that's the case. There's absolutely nothing stopping a company from having Ducky Secret levels of customization built into the mouse as well as a Castor-like install-free software program. I mean I do know why people act like that, they've fallen for marketing. Especially since people always talk about "driverless" when that's really not even the proper term since those mice still use drivers, they just don't use software to modify settings.
> 
> Unless you're talking about Razer mice and Synapse, "driverless" is simply worse because you lose specific customization for no inherent gain. People always talk about "plug and play" but most mice have preset DPI settings you can cycle through out of the box just like the driverless mice. And if you want to customize further you just install, customize settings and save them to the mouse and then uninstall and your mouse will have those settings for any computer (skipping the install/uninstall for Castor-like software), i.e. plug and play. The whole driverless thing is just marketing designed to cover up companies not wanting to spend the time/money to develop software.
> 
> /rant


Yup, literally every device is plug and play nowadays.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> (skipping the install/uninstall for Castor-like software), i.e. plug and play.


Well technically Areson had software like this for their mice as far back as 2007. However, that was just for certain models(Nova Slider X600). Then Dexin did it for CM Storm in 2009 for the Sentinel Advance I.

On the topic of this mouse somehow not being in production sample form yet, let me remind everybody that *TWO* mice are out in China with the PMW3330(labeled as 3336)sensor.

Think about that.

Basically the same casing as the PMW3360. Hell even use E-Signal firmware for at least one of them, and have Holtek MCU's.

Yet here we are still waiting for Feenix/Finalmouse to show something outside of renderings, and a scream model with regular tournament pro internals inside of it.

They are just so incompetent it's entertaining at this point.


----------



## ralloff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well technically Areson had software like this for their mice as far back as 2007. However, that was just for certain models(Nova Slider X600). Then Dexin did it for CM Storm in 2009 for the Sentinel Advance I.
> 
> On the topic of this mouse somehow not being in production sample form yet, let me remind everybody that *TWO* mice are out in China with the PMW3330(labeled as 3336)sensor.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Basically the same casing as the PMW3360. Hell even use E-Signal firmware for at least one of them, and have Holtek MCU's.
> 
> Yet here we are still waiting for Feenix/Finalmouse to show something outside of renderings, and a scream model with regular tournament pro internals inside of it.
> 
> They are just so incompetent it's entertaining at this point.


What mice are you referring too?


----------



## qsxcv

google reachace 3336


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk




----------



## Vantavia

I really wanna see benq buy-out a4tech and upgrade zowie mice with optical mouse buttons, thus fixing their above average latency, they could also make optical switch keyboards that don't look like cancer too.

In the meantime finalmouse are filling the niche of a non autistic mouse shape with a 3360 sensor, shame they almost as are as unreliable as steelseries.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I have had plenty of weird skipping issues with the EC1-A on my Goliathus Control, haven't had any on my DM1 Pro but I generally don't like the feeling of the 3310 for some reason, feels like it's in mud to me while my Zowie AM on 2300 DPI doesn't feel like it's in mud, on 450 DPI it does feel like it's stuttering between moving and not moving though which is known as "pixel walk" apparently.


My Ec1-a tracks well enough on my goliathus control and it's the mouse pad that I'm using. But it tracks horribly on a cougar control mouse pad and I noticed some lag with the mouse.

I guess this all comes down to the quality control of Zowie. Buyers have experienced different problems with their mice.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> In the meantime finalmouse are filling the niche of a non autistic mouse shape with a 3360 sensor, shame they almost as are as unreliable as steelseries.


dont forget logitech g900. ugly af but probably decent ergonomically.


----------



## john88

Why finalmouse 2016 and TP models no longer available on amazon?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Why finalmouse 2016 and TP models no longer available on amazon?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Fixing issues with led light bleed and intensity and rattling clickers on the TP and the 2016 ergo is just sold out of right now


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Fixing issues with led light bleed and intensity and rattling clickers on the TP and the 2016 ergo is just sold out of right now


They're not fixing LED bleed on the ergo? The LED shines through the very bottom part on the Ergo too, pretty bright I guess.


----------



## john88

Wth, i was told my replacement was new version, the buttons still rattle, and they told me its normal "hair trigger" intended feature...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> They're not fixing LED bleed on the ergo? The LED shines through the very bottom part on the Ergo too, pretty bright I guess.


Pretty sure they said they were making improvements to the ergo too. They always say they make improvements but no one reports much of noticeable improvement so hopefully this time they're making some noticeable changes in qc


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Wth, i was told my replacement was new version, the buttons still rattle, and they told me its normal "hair trigger" intended feature...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No that's not right at all I'd send it back


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> They're not fixing LED bleed on the ergo? The LED shines through the very bottom part on the Ergo too, pretty bright I guess.


not on mine, 2015 summer edition ergo.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> not on mine, 2015 summer edition ergo.


I think this is considered LED bleed, not 100% sure though:


----------



## qsxcv

wait is it really as bad as in the photo or is it just glow from your camera or a reflection of room lighting


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wait is it really as bad as in the photo or is it just glow from your camera or a reflection of room lighting


It literally comes out the bottom part of the logo, nothing like the Deathadder's LED where it's equal brightness throughout the logo.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

We'll see how the scream 1 holds up. They seem to be feeling some type of way about this mouse. So they better be in the Lab perfecting it's soon to be existence.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> It literally comes out the bottom part of the logo, nothing like the Deathadder's LED where it's equal brightness throughout the logo.


Just the way the LED is placed. It's by design.


----------



## john88

This is the LED light bleed mine had:
https://youtu.be/K0bgVHBG9oI

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Just the way the LED is placed. It's by design.


That's not considered LED bleeding then, right? Wasn't exactly sure.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> That's not considered LED bleeding then, right? Wasn't exactly sure.


Light bleed is when the light (unintentionally) shines through the crevices or through the coated areas.


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah I thought the light bleed people were referring to was mostly at the thumb buttons with some cases of light bleed straight through the black parts of the shell due to the plastic not being entirely uniform. The light being like a flash light is just over-illumination and poor deffusion of the light.


----------



## cnnd

Good job on limiting the customers to 12 y/o kids with that signature


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Good job on limiting the customers to 12 y/o kids with that signature


How far on the spectrum do you have to be to write off a peripheral because it has a signature on it? I don't agree with it either personally, but I hate the shape of the g303 more.


----------



## Robobot

On which spectrum?


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robobot*
> 
> On which spectrum?


I believe he's referring to the Artism Spectrum Disorder. One of the symptoms of artistic people the aversion to buying things with ugly, unartistic symbols on them.


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> How far on the spectrum do you have to be to write off a peripheral because it has a signature on it? I don't agree with it either personally, but I hate the shape of the g303 more.


Haha dude the logo of the mouse looks like Mickey's head and that funky font signature looks like the font on Mickey films so people will literally think it's a Mickey 'mouse' lol.


----------



## CorruptBE

See cnnd, on this forum, when people buy this mouse we think about 2 things:

"That shape"
"That 3360"

And since it might just be the first of its kind, I doubt we'd care even if this thing was in pink with fluffy unicorns on it.

Though if I get it, I'm unsure if I would buy it a second time, that'll depend on what the competition brings with the 3360 by the end of 2016/start of 2017.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Wth, i was told my replacement was new version, the buttons still rattle, and they told me its normal "hair trigger" intended feature...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No way. Seriously? That's pretty disrespectful.


----------



## tunelover

i don't get why it has to cost 76.99 though. I bought logitech g303s for 25$ each during black friday week with the 3366 sensor. so I'm assuming it can't be that incredibly costly for them just to add this new sensor. They haven't done anything revolutionary so...why the super high price tag?


----------



## Melan

Because "Scream". Fans will eat this and ask for more.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> i don't get why it has to cost 76.99 though. I bought logitech g303s for 25$ each during black friday week with the 3366 sensor. so I'm assuming it can't be that incredibly costly for them just to add this new sensor. They haven't done anything revolutionary so...why the super high price tag?


They had to do all that work not writing software and having a cheap ODM make their mouse.

On a serious note though I also got a g303 for 25$ on black friday, but that is an extremely low price for a high quality mouse. The g303 is pretty reasonable at its normal 40-50$ price and I would consider 30-40$ cheap and 20-30$ a steal. Factoring in that FM isn't making software to configure on board memory and that the build quality even if improved will almost certainly be substantially worse than logitech's overall and I would say 50$ at most would be a reasonable price. The g303 is currently 45$ on amazon so really it should probably be 35-45$. I actually wonder what FM's profit margin is. Logitech probably already has a fairly large one and I wouldn't be surprised if 25$ was close to the break even price though it is probably still above it. I would expect the FM Scream costs less to produce though and since it will be sold through amazon they don't have a retailer taking as much of the profits. I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to bank 50$ a mouse off these.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> why the super high price tag?


because capitalism?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I actually wonder what FM's profit margin is.


over9000

http://www.esreality.com/post/2720072/re-new-new-mouse-development-part-1/#pid2719110
consider the fact that this guy, with his (probably intentionally) botched kickstarter, called up the same factory/odm as finalmouse to make a 3310 mouse, and was planning to sell for $40-45.
http://www.esreality.com/post/2728717/re-new-new-mouse-kickstarter/#pid2728149
Quote:


> 30k would substantiate 1k units ( the minimum order quantity), shipping the sold units, kickstarter fees, and decent pay for myself + 2 others taking off a week of work to ship all this out by hand


so it's something like 20-25 per mouse from the factory.

edit2:
apparently i forgot to scroll down.
http://www.esreality.com/post/2728717/re-new-new-mouse-kickstarter/#pid2726811
Quote:


> i know its unlikely, but the minimum order quantity is 1k and *we're being quoted at 14$ a unit*


lel





































i have a suspicion that jude is once again lying/half-lying about the "we're making our own pcb and firmware blahblahblah" thing again. we shall see soon enough.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> i don't get why it has to cost 76.99 though. I bought logitech g303s for 25$ each during black friday week with the 3366 sensor. so I'm assuming it can't be that incredibly costly for them just to add this new sensor. They haven't done anything revolutionary so...why the super high price tag?


Prices are subjective. If there's people willing to pay $77 for that mouse, they'll sell it for that price.
That's how things work, welcome to the real world.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Prices are subjective. If there's people willing to pay $77 for that mouse, they'll sell it for that price.
> That's how things work, welcome to the real world.


I want to buy this mouse but the price isn't justified for what is being offered. At this price, it is a total rip off and I would not support a company that is so money hungry.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> I want to buy this mouse but the price isn't justified for what is being offered. At this price, it is a total rip off and I would not support a company that is so money hungry.


if only there were more people like you, they wouldn't get away with these ridiculous prices









i guess their thinking is:
this will be the first (well as far as you guys know







) product with the new sensor that has a reasonable weight and shape, so why not charge a premium...

edit:
oh lol amazon says rival700 in 1-2 months
http://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-Rival-Gaming-Mouse-62331/dp/B01AZC3I6U
so "early-mid april' might actually even beat steelseries. of course being finalmouse, they'll delay it to june









edit2;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SteelSeries-Rival-700-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B01BH9E4SG/
amazon uk says release on march28


----------



## Klopfer

Im more excited on/to ( ? ) the new G900 ... shape looks nice , "accumulator" / rechargeable Batterie can swap out ... seems nice ... and it's Logitech , we all know they're not bad


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> i don't get why it has to cost 76.99 though. I bought logitech g303s for 25$ each during black friday week with the 3366 sensor. so I'm assuming it can't be that incredibly costly for them just to add this new sensor. They haven't done anything revolutionary so...why the super high price tag?


>During black friday
It's currently $45.00 and RRP $69.99

I imagine it was quite easy to discount once word got out that a diamond shape is simply ******ed.


----------



## Oeshon

When is this mouse supposed to come out?

I see on Amazon there are no finalmouse mice selling at the moment, I guess new batches coming all across the board, including Tournament Pro.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> i don't get why it has to cost 76.99 though. I bought logitech g303s for 25$ each during black friday week with the 3366 sensor. so I'm assuming it can't be that incredibly costly for them just to add this new sensor. They haven't done anything revolutionary so...why the super high price tag?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >During black friday
> It's currently $45.00 and RRP $69.99
> 
> I imagine it was quite easy to discount once word got out that a diamond shape is simply ******ed.
Click to expand...

well g402 has also dipped to $30
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Logitech-Hyperion-Gaming-Fusion-910-004069/product/B00LZVNWIA?context=browse


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well g402 has also dipped to $30
> http://camelcamelcamel.com/Logitech-Hyperion-Gaming-Fusion-910-004069/product/B00LZVNWIA?context=browse


Are you on commision or what?
Mass production + supply and demand, obviously it didn't sell as well as they hoped and they have a surplus.
I don't agree with most decent mice being £50-70 atmo either, the average price was like £40-50 a few years ago. I'm sure you can't wait to fly the g100s flag to try to disprove that but nethertheless the point still stands.


----------



## chr1spe

Most decent mice are 50-70 pounds? News to me though I am in the US. Plenty of great mice under 50$ that are as good or better than anything over that price. The evga x5 is going to be my next mouse probably. I guess it must have an even worse shape than the g303 though since it was 20$ on black friday and is normally 35-45$.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Are you on commision or what?


???
i'm just pointing out that your argument that g303's price dropped due to its shape doesn't apply to the g402.
or the torq x5
http://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-Customizable-Profiles-Ambidextrous-902-X2-1052-KR/product/B00SV735GU?context=browse


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ???
> i'm just pointing out that your argument that g303's price dropped due to its shape doesn't apply to the g402.
> or the torq x5
> http://camelcamelcamel.com/EVGA-Customizable-Profiles-Ambidextrous-902-X2-1052-KR/product/B00SV735GU?context=browse


oh look at him now! he's also on commission for evga too!


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> obviously it didn't sell as well as they hoped and they have a surplus.


Just by checking publicly available sources you can see that this isnt the case.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Are you on commision or what?
> Mass production + supply and demand, obviously it didn't sell as well as they hoped and they have a surplus.
> I don't agree with most decent mice being £50-70 atmo either, the average price was like £40-50 a few years ago. I'm sure you can't wait to fly the g100s flag to try to disprove that but nethertheless the point still stands.


The G402 is to similar though compared to the G502. Most casuals would get the G502 and then if you consider the 3366, so would the non casuals.

For once they should've followed the Steelseries logic and just have made the G402 a stripped down raw version of the G502. I also bet alot of ex MX518 users would dig that.

*_P.S. with casuals I actually mean uninformed buyers._


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> .....


Well, the price isnt.


----------



## chr1spe

Actually I think most competitive FPS players would choose the 402 over the 502 due to weight. I'm fairly sure at least a handful of CS pros and semi-pros use or have used the 402. I haven't heard of a single CS pro or semi-pro using the 502.


----------



## Ukkooh

'
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Actually I think most competitive FPS players would choose the 402 over the 502 due to weight. I'm fairly sure at least a handful of CS pros and semi-pros use or have used the 402. I haven't heard of a single CS pro or semi-pro using the 502.


IIRC atleast one astralis member used a g502 for a while back when they were playing for TSM.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> >During black friday
> It's currently $45.00 and RRP $69.99
> 
> I imagine it was quite easy to discount once word got out that a diamond shape is simply ******ed.


Logitech mice usually sell under MSRP. Its been that way for a decade or so.

We get you hate the shape but you're borderline ridiculous here.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Actually I think most competitive FPS players would choose the 402 over the 502 due to weight. I'm fairly sure at least a handful of CS pros and semi-pros use or have used the 402. I haven't heard of a single CS pro or semi-pro using the 502.


Which is why I don't get why they didn't make it a raw version.

If a company does it right, can't they cut corners on production like this to cut costs?


----------



## chr1spe

I don't exactly know what a "raw" version entails. I've never been interested in the sensei and just from glancing at them the only difference I knew about was the coating. Is the raw lighter? It still has the same number of buttons right? The sensei is only like 6 or 7 buttons anyway though I guess.

Anyway out of curiosity I looked at the liquidpedia page history for the Astralis players and according to that prior to switching from all using Logitech Device and Cajunb were using the G402 while Xyp9x, Dupreeh, and Karrigan were using the G303. Now only Xyp9x is using a Logitech though. I didn't search through the whole history, but at least most recently none of them were using the 502. Get_Right has also used the G402 at points. I'm pretty sure Skadoodle has used the G402 even though he mostly uses the G100s afaik. Anyway the 402 definitely seems more popular the 502 in the pro scene.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I don't exactly know what a "raw" version entails.


What they could've done with the G502 as a raw version would be adding a rubber wheel without the hyper scrolling, remove the extra buttons next to m1, remove the sniper button, remove the weight system and probably some other minor stuff.

This would cut off quite some weight, I'm sure. Basically a G402 with 3366.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> '
> IIRC atleast one astralis member used a g502 for a while back when they were playing for TSM.


That would be dev1ce. Pretty short-lived though.


----------



## PhaaTe

Was watching today's stream of ScreaM. He is not even using his mouse or it's just a plastic model w/o anything inside, i bet for 2nd option).

Im pretty sure he won't use it anyway, He used to play with ergo. Sad ^^


----------



## trhead

Typical. Also no Fnatic players use their Flick mouse. Oh well.


----------



## TriviumKM

I doubt he'd change mice right before the major for obvious reasons (he's been using the fm ergo for some time now). I'm sure he'll make the switch right after.

The scream one probably isn't even ready yet honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if the one he has now is using the tp guts like others have pointed out already.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Typical. Also no Fnatic players use their Flick mouse. Oh well.


IIRC their sponsors are Benq (which now acquired Zowie) and steelseries. So those two are their choices for mice.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> IIRC their sponsors are Benq (which now acquired Zowie) and steelseries. So those two are their choices for mice.


Ok that makes sense then.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Ok that makes sense then.


Also the flick g1 has a lift off distance issue atm and I don't think we heard confirmation yet that a firmware update will address the problem.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> I doubt he'd change mice right before the major for obvious reasons (he's been using the fm ergo for some time now). I'm sure he'll make the switch right after.
> 
> The scream one probably isn't even ready yet honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if the one he has now is using the tp guts like others have pointed out already.


I have seen many players switch mice before a tournament, that includes before big tournaments. Some of those players did better after the switch. A lot of the time they switch because they are free from obligation, therefore can use something that is better for them, hence the improved performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> IIRC their sponsors are Benq (which now acquired Zowie) and steelseries. So those two are their choices for mice.


They left SteelSeries to create their own brand instead.

I don't know about their BenQ sponsorship. Their deal could be for monitors only, not monitors and mice.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I have seen many player switch mice before a tournament, that includes before big tournaments. Some of those player did better after the switch. A lot of the time they switch because they are free from obligation, therefore can use something that is better for them, hence the improved performance.


I've seen the same as well, but that's usually when the player doesn't like the mouse they're forced to use, so i was going under the assumption scream actually liked the FM ergo.

It could also be because he just doesn't like the feel of the 3360 sensor or the 1K polling it's locked to if he isn't using it due to any of the reasons already mentioned.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> or because his scream1 is just a paperweight


Or that lol


----------



## qsxcv

or because his scream1 is just a paperweight


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> IIRC their sponsors are Benq (which now acquired Zowie) and steelseries. So those two are their choices for mice.


Yah, no more SteelSeries. Probably Monitors only but none are using Fnatic Gear, besides Krimz using the mousepad. Cloud9 would probably love to use BenQ peripherals, rather than be stuck with Logitech mice


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhaaTe*
> 
> Was watching today's stream of ScreaM. He is not even using his mouse (so the product is ****yt or it's just a plastic model w/o anything inside, i bet for 2nd option).
> 
> Im pretty sure he won't use it anyway, He used to play with ergo. Sad ^^


How do you know he is not using his mouse? I had a quick look and I could not see his hands in the VOD


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yah, no more SteelSeries. Probably Monitors only but none are using Fnatic Gear, besides Krimz using the mousepad. Cloud9 would probably love to use BenQ peripherals, rather than be stuck with Logitech mice


Must be a relief for c9 hahahaha. I was thinking about that since the zowie acquirement


----------



## agsz

Don't think Logitech would allow that though.


----------



## wmoftw

was this linked here at all?

http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences


----------



## PhaaTe

look 4:00 + on the vod. He is showing the mouse which was not connected to any PC, after that he threw mice back into the desk.


----------



## kashim

guys how much scream1 is better then g502 for low sense gamers?


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhaaTe*
> 
> look 4:00 + on the vod. He is showing the mouse which was not connected to any PC, after that he threw mice back into the desk.


I'm not certain on this but it doesn't necessarily mean he only has one version of his own mouse they made.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys how much scream1 is better then g502 for low sense gamers?


Not at all, G502 is still the king as far as I can tell, for performance.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys how much scream1 is better then g502 for low sense gamers?[/quote
> How much better is a breezeblock vs a mouse? They will have the same sensor except the scream one will be 45g lighter iirc


----------



## agsz

How are you guys comparing two mice, when one isn't even out yet?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Cloud9 would probably love to use BenQ peripherals, rather than be stuck with Logitech mice


What is the point of saying bull**** like this? Do you know the players and that they are complaining about logitech mice? I know Astralis players were actually complaining about logitech even when they were sponsored by them on TSM, but I haven't heard a C9 player complain other than Nothing saying he wishes they would make a G100s with the 3366. It isn't a general consensus that Logitech is bad or Zowie is good and I'm sure some players would use different mice if allowed though I don't know that they would be Zowie. From a technical standpoint Zowie is actually quite bad and far inferior to Logitech and IMO they don't make a single remotely decent shape for fingertip users.

Edit: I should have said some Astralis players actually. Some of them were fine with Logitech some weren't because guess what? Some of it is preference and some people won't like a single mouse from a given brand no matter what brand it is.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> Not at all, G502 is still the king as far as I can tell, for performance.


Yea and it kills your wrists at low sensitivity.


----------



## PhaaTe

He said something like "im gonna use this on major". I bet everything on this - they don't have working Scream1 yet. And I think he won't use the scream1 anyway cuz' ergo uses "different muscles". After I switched from FK to Deathadder my arm was destroyed and now I just can't get used to FK.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What is the point of saying bull**** like this? Do you know the players and that they are complaining about logitech mice? I know Astralis players were actually complaining about logitech even when they were sponsored by them on TSM, but I haven't heard a C9 player complain other than Nothing saying he wishes they would make a G100s with the 3366. It isn't a general consensus that Logitech is bad or Zowie is good and I'm sure some players would use different mice if allowed though I don't know that they would be Zowie. From a technical standpoint Zowie is actually quite bad and far inferior to Logitech and IMO they don't make a single remotely decent shape for fingertip users.
> 
> Edit: I should have said some Astralis players actually. Some of them were fine with Logitech some weren't because guess what? Some of it is preference and some people won't like a single mouse from a given brand no matter what brand it is.


Due to the lack of choices they have? None of them used Logitech mice prior to being on Cloud9, and all past Cloud9 members switch mice after leaving the team, just like Astralias did after leaving TSM. It's obviously pure speculation, I'm not claiming to read their minds or anything. Why are you so offended?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhaaTe*
> 
> He said something like "im gonna use this on major". I bet everything on this - they don't have working Scream1 yet. And I think he won't use the scream1 anyway cuz' ergo uses "different muscles". After I switched from FK to Deathadder my arm was destroyed and now I just can't get used to FK.


Never had a problem switching from ambi to ergo then back to ambi or vice versa, no idea man.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Due to the lack of choices they have? None of them used Logitech mice prior to being on Cloud9, and all past Cloud9 members switch mice after leaving the team, just like Astralias did after leaving TSM. It's obviously pure speculation, I'm not claiming to read their minds or anything. Why are you so offended?


I'm not "offended" it is just a really stupid comment imo and purely pro zowie/anti logitech bias. Also the best info I can find says sgares is still using the g303, Shazam is using a g303, and Semphis is using a g100s, but I don't know for sure those are accurate. If you know what they are using and it isn't that you should go make an edit of liquipedia. I guess no one would ever willingly use Logitech over Zowie though so they must be wrong.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Yea and it kills your wrists at low sensitivity.


Fair point








I tend to like lighter mice but I have no issues with my modified G502 at 105g, though, but I don't use a terribly low sensitivity (40cm/360) and I don't have particularly unbuilt wrist muscles.

Should be some other more suitable options for lighter low sens mice than this one, going by the issues people have with FinalMouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What is the point of saying bull**** like this? Do you know the players and that they are complaining about logitech mice? I know Astralis players were actually complaining about logitech even when they were sponsored by them on TSM, but I haven't heard a C9 player complain other than Nothing saying he wishes they would make a G100s with the 3366. It isn't a general consensus that Logitech is bad or Zowie is good and I'm sure some players would use different mice if allowed though I don't know that they would be Zowie. From a technical standpoint Zowie is actually quite bad and far inferior to Logitech and IMO they don't make a single remotely decent shape for fingertip users.
> 
> Edit: I should have said some Astralis players actually. Some of them were fine with Logitech some weren't because guess what? Some of it is preference and some people won't like a single mouse from a given brand no matter what brand it is.


I know Semphis, Freakazoid and Nothing had complaints about the G302/3. I think I saw that Shahzam didn't like the G303. Sean switched between the G402 and G303 and Skadoodle switched between the G402 and G100s. I thought I saw Sean (openly) switch his mouse right after his contract lapsed.


----------



## chr1spe

I'm not saying that they would all be using logitech if they had complete freedom of their mouse choice. I'm just saying it is stupid and bias to shove words in their mouths by saying they would rather be using Zowie.

Edit: Also disliking one mouse doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't use a different one from that brand. I'm pretty sure Nothing doesn't like the g302/303, but likes the g100s shape. I know for a fact he was asking for a g100s with G303 internals.


----------



## bruzanHD

Both Astralis and Fnatic have full freedom of mouse choice. They are using a mix of Zowie and Steelseries mice. Raw performance isn't the deciding factor in a mouse for the pro players, feel and comfort is.


----------



## qsxcv

iirc n0thing said on stream that he didn't like the g302/3 because the rear was too thin or something


----------



## chr1spe

Actually Karrigan is using a WOT DeathAdder. Device was also switching mice and I don't know for sure what he ended up using. There are pros that do choose to use Logitech. I know Get_Right was switching mice during the summer and used an EC for like one tournament, then switched to the G402, and is now using a G303.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I'm not "offended" it is just a really stupid comment imo and purely pro zowie/anti logitech bias. Also the best info I can find says sgares is still using the g303, Shazam is using a g303, and Semphis is using a g100s, but I don't know for sure those are accurate. If you know what they are using and it isn't that you should go make an edit of liquipedia. I guess no one would ever willingly use Logitech over Zowie though so they must be wrong.


I don't care for any brand in particular, honestly. I stated anyone who had to use Logitech in the past, immediately ditched it after their contract was over, and that's a fact. Not sure what you're talking about in regards to Liquipedia though.


----------



## chr1spe

Liquipedia shows player gear on the pages about players. I usually go by that instead of the google doc that floats around because the google doc has inaccuracies and since it isn't a wiki or openly editable IDK who is in charge of updating it. Both aren't entirely accurate, but at least if I see something wrong on liquipedia I can edit it and correct it. For example the google doc says Get_Right is using the Zowie EC1 when afaik he only used the EC1 for one tournament in June 2015, then used a G402 for several months, and has been using the G303 for several months since then. sgares is using a Deathadder currently and I updated his page on liquipedia, but it said he was using the g303 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/counterstrike/Sgares . Shazam's page says he is using a g303, and Semphis' says he is using a g100s.

I'm not sure where you get the info for your "facts" but maybe you should share your extremely knowledgeable and reliable sources.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Liquipedia shows player gear on the pages about players. I usually go by that instead of the google doc that floats around because the google doc has inaccuracies and since it isn't a wiki or openly editable IDK who is in charge of updating it. Both aren't entirely accurate, but at least if I see something wrong on liquipedia I can edit it and correct it. For example the google doc says Get_Right is using the Zowie EC1 when afaik he only used the EC1 for one tournament in June 2015, then used a G402 for several months, and has been using the G303 for several months since then. sgares is using a Deathadder currently and I updated his page on liquipedia, but it said he was using the g303 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/counterstrike/Sgares . Shazam's page says he is using a g303, and Semphis' says he is using a g100s.
> 
> I'm not sure where you get the info for your "facts" but maybe you should share your extremely knowledgeable and reliable sources.


Oh, now I understand you. From HLTV.org Galleries of tournaments and Streams of said tournaments, you can usually see the players peripherals. Semphis was last using SteelSeries Sensei @ eSportsArena or w.e that place is in California, but being back on a Logitech sponsored team, he probably went back to a Logitech mouse. I think TSM is going to be in E-League, so that would make sense. No clue about ShahZaM, but I'm pretty sure GeT_RiGhT is using the G303 still, rest of NiP uses the EC2-A I think.

Liquipedia shows device using the Zowie EC1-A, but he's been using the Deathadder Chroma for a few months now. (HLTV #1)(HLTV #2)


----------



## CorruptBE

Wonder if someone could ask GeT_RiGht as to why he's using it.

He's the only one that sticks out making very specific choices. SS Xai for instance, when everyone was ranting about the accel and people were using kana's and what not, he went for the Sensei/Xai.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Liquipedia shows player gear on the pages about players. I usually go by that instead of the google doc that floats around because the google doc has inaccuracies and since it isn't a wiki or openly editable IDK who is in charge of updating it. Both aren't entirely accurate, but at least if I see something wrong on liquipedia I can edit it and correct it. For example the google doc says Get_Right is using the Zowie EC1 when afaik he only used the EC1 for one tournament in June 2015, then used a G402 for several months, and has been using the G303 for several months since then. sgares is using a Deathadder currently and I updated his page on liquipedia, but it said he was using the g303 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/counterstrike/Sgares . Shazam's page says he is using a g303, and Semphis' says he is using a g100s.
> 
> I'm not sure where you get the info for your "facts" but maybe you should share your extremely knowledgeable and reliable sources.


Not sure how this Liquipedia works exactly..Could you see changelogs for players peripherals since their page was created?

I normally look at On-Winning.com, rather than the spreadsheet. Although, that page might just be based off the spreadsheet, not sure.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Wonder if someone could ask GeT_RiGht as to why he's using it.
> 
> He's the only one that sticks out making very specific choices. SS Xai for instance, when everyone was ranting about the accel and people were using kana's and what not, he went for the Sensei/Xai.


Probably only way is by donating to him while he streams


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, like a normal wiki you can view the page history and look for changes to the gear section. I'm pretty sure device himself said he was using both the DA and a Zowie for whatever reason and he switched between the two some since the team parting with tsm.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Yea and it kills your wrists at low sensitivity.


Not everyone has wrists made of wafers.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Yeah, like a normal wiki you can view the page history and look for changes to the gear section. I'm pretty sure device himself said he was using both the DA and a Zowie for whatever reason and he switched between the two some since the team parting with tsm.


I've been checking pretty frequently to see if he stuck with the DeathAdder Chroma, since I was convinced the EC1-A sensor performs worse than the Deathadder's after I got my Zowie EC1-A, and he's been using the DeathAdder Chroma since January consistently.

Switching between the Deathadder Chroma & Zowie EC1-A would probably impact his performance slightly, since DA Chroma sensor feels much more responsive compared to the EC1-A. I'm assuming due to the DA Chroma's Avago-3989 running at twice the framerate of the EC1-A's Avago-3310, not sure though.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I've been checking pretty frequently to see if he stuck with the DeathAdder Chroma, since I was convinced the EC1-A sensor performs worse than the Deathadder's after I got my Zowie EC1-A, and he's been using the DeathAdder Chroma since January consistently.
> 
> Switching between the Deathadder Chroma & Zowie EC1-A would probably impact his performance slightly, since DA Chroma sensor feels much more responsive compared to the EC1-A. I'm assuming due to the DA Chroma's Avago-3989 running at twice the framerate of the EC1-A's Avago-3310, not sure though.


Indeed it does. Also a bit more artificial. It's been established many times and somehow some people refuse to accept it.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Indeed it does. Also a bit more artificial. It's been established many times and somehow some people refuse to accept it.


What do you mean by "it's a bit more artificial"?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What do you mean by "it's a bit more artificial"?


Compared to 3989/8, 3090, 3050, 3320, am010, 3366, 3688/3888 - the 3310 feels less natural, smoothed out (i dont necessarily refer to smoothing as such), more processed. Heck, even the 9800 feels better. That's why people like woll3, skylit and others criticize it heavily and stay away from it, since it's rather cheap-end technically, when compared to modern counterparts, or even less modern.

Most people confirmed this was the case when compared to 3988 for example.


----------



## Bucake

i really doubt that the differences between the 3989 and 3310 would be an issue for any pro gamer.
they're not obsessed with 'feel' the way a lot of people on these forums are. for them it's almost exclusively about shape.
many of them would probably not even notice a difference between the performance of modern gaming sensors..

if a non-sponsored player chooses one mouse over the other, it's probably the shape, maybe the placing of the buttons, possibly the coating, etc. just practical stuff.


----------



## Soo8

Many people still think the 3310 is a very good sensor. They are not wrong, but the sensor can be better. If people just sat silently there wouldn't be any need for companies to innovate and create something new and exciting. It's perfection we are trying to find here on OCN, not "good enough".
Professional players are lazy in that regard. They don't really have the practice time to master a whole new sensor+mouse combo. It's just too time consuming at this point when sensors have still so much variance. It's just better for them to master lets say a 3310 sensor and maybe only change the shape as the 3310 is everywhere. A better sensor in a weird-ass shape won't bring you super skills. And if you can't play properly because the shape is just plain wrong for you it will just hinder your own performance even after you put time in to practice with the mouse.


----------



## Melan

Professional players aren't lazy. They just pay attention to stuff that matters instead of "what some internet forum thinks about X mouse with Y sensor".


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Many people still think the 3310 is a very good sensor. They are not wrong, but the sensor can be better.


the only plus in my opinion of the 3310 is the fact that it's flexible with its cpi-steps. funnily enough, no company seems to use that fact..
if every step of 50 is native, you'd figure that companies would ship it with software to change the cpi in steps of 50.
i mean, its variance is higher than many other optical sensors. its fps is nothing special. perfect tracking speed is nice, but older sensors had high enough for most people already.

when the hype over the 3310 exploded, i figured it was basically an upgraded MLT04. very little processing, 12k fps, flexible cpi, configurable LOD, no silly issues like jitter, etc etc. but in the end, it's just another sensor. a sidegrade, not an upgrade.
which is fine.. but the hype was just so misplaced. (it still is.) and what's worse is that most companies seem to fail at implementing the sensor well.

these companies are laughing their asses off. they sell their mice like crazy because it was "us" who hyped the sensor.. and now everyone gets every 3310 mouse because they are convinced that it's the perfect sensor and an awesome piece of technology.
all these companies do is make a mouse with a 3310 sensor. we've already seen that most 3310 mice have issues, or bad firmware, or lacking customization.

yeah, hype is a powerful thing


----------



## Aventadoor

12k fps on a 3310? Isent it more like... half?








You have to remember CSGO is more about angles then pure aim. Pro's always have their crosshair placed in a spot where there might pop up an enemy.
This is best for consistency etc, and pretty much do-able with all mice


----------



## Bucake

i meant, the hype made me believe it would be an awesome piece of technology with specs like that.
but yes, i think its fps is around 6k.


----------



## chr1spe

TBH I've never understood why anyone would need or want super flexible cpi steps or why people complain about a slightly different cpi. If a mouse has 400,800,1200,1600,3200 I would think that should have a step for just about anyone. Hell some people get all up in arms because a mouse doesn't have the exact step they want. I use 800 cpi mostly, but I wouldn't particularly care if I had to use anywhere from 600-1200. Hell even if it didn't have a step in that range that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me though I might be slightly annoyed. I can understand why people get annoyed when there is no setting near 400dpi or something, but why would I need to set my mouse to 550dpi or 1050dpi or whatever. No point in not including it if it is already there sure, but i don't really even see it as a positive. It is just a thing that is there. Some people seem to think there is something special about a certain dpi step or something though I guess. I don't really get it. Honestly the only place it makes sense to me is 2d applications so I guess RTS and moba games it might be nice.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> 12k fps on a 3310? Isent it more like... half?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to remember CSGO is more about angles then pure aim. Pro's always have their crosshair placed in a spot where there might pop up an enemy.
> This is best for consistency etc, and pretty much do-able with all mice


Yeah, it's the opposite. Framerates for 3310 & 3988/3989 courtesy of @qsxcv

3988/3989 has 3 framerate steps (roughly): 3000, 7000,12500

3310 has 3 framerate steps (roughly): 2000, 4000, 6500


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> TBH I've never understood why anyone would need or want super flexible cpi steps or why people complain about a slightly different cpi. If a mouse has 400,800,1200,1600,3200 I would think that should have a step for just about anyone. Hell some people get all up in arms because a mouse doesn't have the exact step they want. I use 800 cpi mostly, but I wouldn't particularly care if I had to use anywhere from 600-1200. Hell even if it didn't have a step in that range that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me though I might be slightly annoyed. I can understand why people get annoyed when there is no setting near 400dpi or something, but why would I need to set my mouse to 550dpi or 1050dpi or whatever. No point in not including it if it is already there sure, but i don't really even see it as a positive. It is just a thing that is there. Some people seem to think there is something special about a certain dpi step or something though I guess. I don't really get it. Honestly the only place it makes sense to me is 2d applications so I guess RTS and moba games it might be nice.


Imagine intel releasing their I7-K series as not overclockable anymore. Would this sentence make sense " We disabled overclocking because pros don't want it. , what's so special about it "? One of the biggest selling point is 50 native cpi and lod customization. Seems different when you change the perspective, doesn't it?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> TBH I've never understood why anyone would need or want super flexible cpi steps or why people complain about a slightly different cpi.


if this was a reply to my post, you missed the point i was trying to make. personally i don't care for cpi flexibility, but the 3310 just doesn't really offer a lot other than flexible cpi steps.
meaning, the 3310 is probably just used because it's either easy to implement, it's cheap, or maybe because it's a guaranteed sell.
but if you don't use the fact that the 3310 has flexible cpi steps, then what makes it better than other sensors?
i'm not saying it's not better than a lot of older sensors, my point is that there's no reason to hype a mouse with the 3310 sensor if the mouse doesn't actually use the strengths of the sensor.

and to be honest i think "different games" is a valid reason to ship mice that are capable of it, with flexible cpi steps. a lot of games do not have an in-game sensitivity scaler, or they're just flat multipliers (1px -> 2px -> 3px -> etc) or otherwise badly implemented scalers. RTS, MOBA, MMORPG, etc are played a lot. true, precision matters less.. but if the sensor you put in your mouse can do it, it's a good upgrade to the mouse if you add flexibility when it comes to cpi.
(i bet FM would say that it's a mouse specifically made for FPS games by their technicians and geniuses and it does not need cpi-flexibility because the modern FPS games offer it!!!3211)


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Imagine intel releasing their I7-K series as not overclockable anymore. Would this sentence make sense " We disabled overclocking because pros don't want it. , what's so special about it "? One of the biggest selling point is 50 native cpi and lod customization. Seems different when you change the perspective, doesn't it?


First, that's a VERY bad comparison because Intel already has non-overclockable series. (Hint: non-K SKUs).

Second, aforementioned steps were a standard for a very long time. A lot of people use those since most of them, especially 800 cpi, are native across all higher end sensors (especially older ones) so people stick to them. Also, since most people just tend to plain copy their favourite pro players right down to peripherals, CPI, display resolution and CFGs, they end up with same standard CPI steps.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> First, that's a VERY bad comparison because Intel already has non-overclockable series. (Hint: non-K SKUs).
> 
> Second, aforementioned steps were a standard for a very long time. A lot of people use those since most of them, especially 800 cpi, are native across all higher end sensors so people stick to them. Also, since most people just tend to plain copy their favourite pro players right down to peripherals, CPI, display resolution and CFGs, they end up with same standard CPI steps.


Maybe, but that's why I said if they made their K series dumbed down - as the rest of the models. I think it's a great example, because 3310 was at some point a very high end sensor, until companies came and dumbed it down.

Having standard cpi steps is pretty important, yup, but it has nothing to do with sensor or mcu capabilities, as we have seen before.


----------



## Melan

That is still a bad comparison because it doesn't make any sense. Why the hell would Intel dumb down K SKUs?

3310 is not a very high end sensor and never was. Only decent improvement it has over 3090 is more native steps and lod control (which is also buggy and still some mice with 3090 can do this too). At this point 9500 is more high end than 3310.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> because 3310 was at some point a very high end sensor, until companies came and dumbed it down.


That is like, just your opinion, dude.

MLT04 > 3310 in every way but PCS


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Second, aforementioned steps were a standard for a very long time. A lot of people use those since most of them, especially 800 cpi, are native across all higher end sensors so people stick to them. Also, since most people just tend to plain copy their favourite pro players right down to peripherals, CPI, display resolution and CFGs, they end up with same standard CPI steps.


i'm sure everyone here knows why they went with the steps they went with, and not with 150 - 1200 - 3450 - 3850 or whatever.
but the question is why hype a mouse with the 3310?
and what makes the 3310 good?

you'll see 3310 mice with insanely high LOD, don't track at hard pad at all, silly or few cpi-steps (dat new Tek mouse), even issues like jitter, ripple..
this just shows that a sensor is nothing without proper implementation. people jumping on all these 3310 mice should know better by now.
besides, even if implemented well enough, what makes it better than a 3090 for example? or am010? or [insert random gaming sensor]?

the 3310 can give you high perfect tracking speed, cpi-flexibility, adjustable LOD, but also increased variance (and possibly increased delay, according to a bunch of people).
but if you ship a mouse with the 3310, without adjustable LOD and without flexible cpi.. you just have the variance and the high tracking speed, right?

personally i'm quite curious to where the whole 3360 sensor thing is going. will all 3360 mice perform as awesomely as the logitech ones? same specs? same results in tests?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That is still bad comparison because it doesn't make any sense. Why the hell would Intel dumb down K SKUs?
> 
> 3310 is not a very high end sensor and never was. Only decent improvement it has over 3090 is more native steps and lod control (which is also buggy and still some mice with 3090 can do this too). At this point 9500 is more high end than 3310.


To each their own. 3310 was released in 2013 mate, and back then until other companies caught up with the Rival (or Da 2013 - 3988 ), it was higher than most optical sensors. I didn't say highest end, but higher end. If you think a little bit you'll understand what I mean, and you'll see I'm right.

As you took my post out of context, fine. I was referring to chr1spe's post where he stated that he doesn't see the necessity of smaller native increments than 400. I said it's not because we desperately need them, but it's one of the main selling features of the 3310 or the 9500/9800 family altogether. We are bringing it to attention because companies took it away from us to save money and do lazy implementations and go the "pros don't want it" route.

Call it what you want. Nuff said. It is quite irrelevant if you point out my intel comparison, the point is still the same.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> That is like, just your opinion, dude.
> 
> MLT04 > 3310 in every way but PCS


If you didn't notice, I was talking technically, in terms of hardware capabilities etc.


----------



## Melan

I didn't call 3310 a highest end sensor either.

"Pros don't want it" is an excuse to cut corners, yes. And a valid one, because those "pros" usually shove peripherals to rabid fans.
Having step granularity is hardly a feature if most people stick to standard steps anyways.


----------



## Maximillion

I can't wait til the 3310 is officially EOL, then we will start seeing posts about all the 3360's flaws in its various implementations. #JustWait


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Well there's already been sketchy 3310 implementations. The Strix Claw would be an example.


----------



## kashim

sry guys then wait scream1 is worth?is 3360 good sensor like my g502?better?worst?


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well there's already been sketchy 3310 implementations. The Strix Claw would be an example.


whats wrong with strix claw, and is it the same implementation as sica?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sry guys then wait scream1 is worth?is 3360 good sensor like my g502?better?worst?


Short and simple: we don't know. It hasn't been released yet. We haven't heard if the 3360 isn't a gimped version of the 3366.


----------



## Maximillion

Let's be honest here, we all know the "it doesn't feel as raw/snappy/responsive/aimbot.exe as Logi's implementation" comments are coming.

...not saying it won't be a noteworthy upgrade to what a lot of ppl are currently using, but still. prepare for the wave of users who "went back to the G303" after trying out 3360's.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> whats wrong with strix claw, and is it the same implementation as sica?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1507414/asus-strix-claw-gaming-mouse/0_50#post_24937740

Starts at post #25.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1507414/asus-strix-claw-gaming-mouse/0_50#post_24937740
> 
> Starts at post #25.


I see, does sica have the same exact problems though? i read that on strix claw you can only have the LED as a breathing effect but on sica u can have it breathing or steady, so im not sure if they would have the same problem or not


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Imagine intel releasing their I7-K series as not overclockable anymore. Would this sentence make sense " We disabled overclocking because pros don't want it. , what's so special about it "? One of the biggest selling point is 50 native cpi and lod customization. Seems different when you change the perspective, doesn't it?


That is a really strange analogy. Even if you want to go with something like that it would be more like if intel released new k cpus where you could change the multiplier by increments of 0.25 instead of 1, then some mother boards still only allowed for increments of 1. Then I said I don't see why you need to change you multiplier by increments of 0.25 anyway.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> We haven't heard if the 3360 isn't a gimped version of the 3366.


it is not. i can say for sure that its framerate and max dpi are not.
3330/3336 is the gimped version.

but it's possible that logitech's 3366 is gimped to begin with.

but when a company restricts the dpi steps just cuz, you could say that their mouse is effectively gimped.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> If you didn't notice, I was talking technically, in terms of hardware capabilities etc.


It's just a very old laser sensor that was rehoused to replace the 3090.


----------



## qsxcv

with smoothing and nerfed framerate/dpi

i mean... 3310 isnt that bad but it isnt popular because of how good it is


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I know Semphis, Freakazoid and Nothing had complaints about the G302/3. I think I saw that Shahzam didn't like the G303. Sean switched between the G402 and G303 and Skadoodle switched between the G402 and G100s. I thought I saw Sean (openly) switch his mouse right after his contract lapsed.


What's their complaint about the mouse?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> What's their complaint about the mouse?


Their main complaint is the shape.


----------



## Dylan Nails

*** does frame rate even do in mice


----------



## qsxcv

it's mostly just a spec. all else being equal, higher framerate = smoother tracking


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> it's mostly just a spec. all else being equal, higher framerate = smoother tracking


While technically true, I tend to think its primary significance is in tracking speed.


----------



## jsx3

Well.. sure. But does it really matter?

I believe theoretical data allocation is generally bottlenecked regardless.


----------



## qsxcv

you and skylit always throw around that term... i assume you're referring to the 8bit motion counts from the 3090 and that generation of sensors.

but it's really never a factor nowadays except when you use high dpi steps with potato firmware like in the rival100 or xornet ii.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> While technically true, I tend to think its primary significance is in tracking speed.


yes but even with the 3310, max tracking speed is high enough that it's never really something that needs improving.

but i am still perplexed by how the 3310 can track to 6-7m/s when that is essentially the theoretical maximum (e.g. consecutive frames have only one column of overlap)


----------



## loki993

That was about the weakest product announcement Ive ever seen. Here is the mouse, no info at all and Im not even using it...


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I can't wait til the 3310 is officially EOL, then we will start seeing posts about all the 3360's flaws in its various implementations. #JustWait


Maybe the 3988/9 will get some more credit then ?


----------



## wareya

teensy 3310 when

(I would do it if I knew more about interacting with the sensor. All my low level programming so far has been relegated inside emulators.)


----------



## espgodson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> teensy 3310 when
> 
> (I would do it if I knew more about interacting with the sensor. All my low level programming so far has been relegated inside emulators.)


if only a teensy mlt04 would work *___*


----------



## qsxcv

???mlt04 is already fine

there's nothing really special about a teensy that any other mcu can't do


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ???mlt04 is already fine
> 
> there's nothing really special about a teensy that any other mcu can't do


Low PCS?!?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Low PCS?!?










It's from 1999, what the hell were you expecting? Agilent sensors were even worse at the time.


----------



## Aventadoor

Turn up your sens!


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's from 1999, what the hell were you expecting? Agilent sensors were even worse at the time.


Agilent A2020 was pretty damn good (Still is).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ???mlt04 is already fine
> 
> there's nothing really special about a teensy that any other mcu can't do
> 
> 
> 
> Low PCS?!?
Click to expand...

i mean it's fine in the sense that there's nothing about it that can be improved by modding the way i did to g100s.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Any way to add a gyro to it?


----------



## espgodson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i mean it's fine in the sense that there's nothing about it that can be improved by modding the way i did to g100s.


ahh i thought you might be able to mod it to have 500hz using a teensy (i have no idea what im talking about) xD


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Agilent A2020 was pretty damn good (Still is).


That came 3 years later. If you want to know what Agilent was offering at the time, track down the wmo 1.0.


----------



## LDV617

Is there any hint/rumor of when this thing is gonna hit Amazon?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Is there any hint/rumor of when this thing is gonna hit Amazon?


Supposedly sometime in [mid-late?] April, but I wouldn't hold your breath as Finalmouse has never came through with their projected release dates. Lucky to see it by May.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Supposedly sometime in [mid-late?] April, but I wouldn't hold your breath as Finalmouse has never came through with their projected release dates. Lucky to see it by May.


That is kinda what I assumed :/

They have been out of stock for weeks on Amazon, so they are either in trouble or they are preparing for a big change in manufacturing? I'm hoping it comes out in April, but I'm pretty satisfied with my G303 for now...


----------



## aayman_farzand

So can we get an update on how things are looking?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> So can we get an update on how things are looking?


No


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> So can we get an update on how things are looking?


They are busy marketing at MLG.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Marketing for sure, anyone catch the Scream/FM commercial pushing the mouse? Wasn't bad but it showed nothing outside of a shot of the scream.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Yea I saw that minutes after turning on the stream. It wasn't bad at all, usually these gaming gear ads are extremely cheesy.

I wonder if they will put the mouse on sale/preorder right after the event ends.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Yea I saw that minutes after turning on the stream. It wasn't bad at all, usually these gaming gear ads are extremely cheesy.
> 
> I wonder if they will put the mouse on sale/preorder right after the event ends.


Yea i thought it was pretty good. Pre-sale would be nice but i doubt it.


----------



## chr1spe

Idk, all peripheral adds are pretty bad imo, but I thought that one was ridiculous. It was more about scream than the mouse and then just showed a 2 second picture of the mouse at the end. I guess they are learning from companies that sell shoes for physical sports and things like that though.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Yea, I would prefer focusing on personalities to Logitech's Interstellar parodies any day.


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, trying to sell things just based on one extremely over hyped and overrated player's name and completely ignoring the product itself is a pretty tried and true marketing tactic I guess.


----------



## popups

That FinalMouse made Scream the best player ever. His performance is godly.


----------



## Vikhr

You too can spend $80 to go 7-14 on lan and get steamrolled by VP.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That FinalMouse made Scream the best player ever. His performance is godly.


But but...what you don't see is the precision in the 7 frags that he had...


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> But but...what you don't see is the precision in the 7 frags that he had...


Wait someone on G2 got 7 frags? God dang, we back boys.


----------



## Ihateallmice

I can't stop laughing. jesus christ that g2 train_wreck was beautiful. I'm going to pre-order 10 scream mice right away.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> I can't stop laughing. jesus christ that g2 train_wreck was beautiful. I'm going to pre-order 10 scream mice right away.


lol!!


----------



## Bucake

damn, apparently i missed some good stuff.


----------



## agsz

Is the commercial on YouTube or anything yet? Also, is he using the ScreamOne @ MLG? HLTV.org Galleries seem to never take a picture of ScreaM's peripherals, but takes pictures of everyone else's just fine.


----------



## chr1spe

It should be renamed the scream 1-16


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Is the commercial on YouTube or anything yet? Also, is he using the ScreamOne @ MLG? HLTV.org Galleries seem to never take a picture of ScreaM's peripherals, but takes pictures of everyone else's just fine.


They said after MLG, but we'll see.


----------



## Bucake

will implementation be as good as logitech's? place your bets!


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> will implementation be as good as logitech's? place your bets!


Definitely not, they couldn't even implement the tried and true 3310 correctly.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Definitely not, they couldn't even implement the tried and true 3310 correctly.


I wish Zowie would hurry the living hell up with their 3360 line up. The changes to the Ec line ups side buttons & the rest of the shell.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> will implementation be as good as logitech's? place your bets!
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not, they couldn't even implement the tried and true 3310 correctly.
Click to expand...

well if you believe jude, they're developing the scream1's pcb and firmware in-house rather than using the odm/factory's stuff.

i don't mean to be haughty, but it's likely their engineers are not very experienced with the specifics of mouse performance and i can share some of my experience if they ask.
or jude is half-lying again and they didn't hire any engineers... and are just working with their odm/factory's engineers. we'll see.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well if you believe jude, they're developing the scream1's pcb and firmware in-house rather than using the odm/factory's stuff.
> 
> i don't mean to be haughty, but it's likely their engineers are not very experienced with the specifics of mouse performance and i can share some of my experience if they ask.
> or jude is half-lying again and they didn't hire any engineers... and are just working with their odm/factory's engineers. we'll see.


It's pretty hard to believe Jude and the other FM reps nowadays, with how much BS they spewed about "custom firmware" and "custom lens" then saying they would "release a firmware update to remove the 2ms of MCU smoothing", all of their word was false and the fix never provided.


----------



## Maximillion

Well, the FM "in-house crew" definitely has to come correct because if it turns out to be a nerfed 3366 I really don't know if _anyone_ (at least who frequent this forum) could take them seriously anymore.


----------



## qsxcv

3360 is not nerfed. well you have 100dpi steps instead of 50... but framerate and max dpi are not reduced.

3330 is the nerfed version, based on the specs of the reachace 3336 mice


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well you have 100dpi steps instead of 50...


Noooooooooooooo, don't take 450 and 1250 DPI steps away from me. I don't wanna use 4/11 on 900 DPI to get 450 DPI.


----------



## qsxcv

don't worry mate, the scream1's pro-certified firmware is specially tuned to not just 4, but *5* esportz dpi levels: 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400
/s


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> don't worry mate, the scream1's pro-certified firmware is specially tuned to not just 4, but *5* esportz dpi levels: 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400
> /s


Lmao i hate you so much.


----------



## RDno1

Guys, calm down. As far as we know, he is not using the Scream One yet. So it is not the mouse


----------



## qsxcv

of course i'm not
as far as we know, the scream1 is still a concept mouse at this point


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> of course i'm not
> as far as we know, the scream1 is still a concept mouse at this point


what is the 3359 that steelseries is using?


----------



## qsxcv

it's a 3059.
supposedly a custom 3050, but no one knows what's different


----------



## Alya

Pretty much how all of us feel right now, I guess.


----------



## ncck

Screams problem is that he goes for headshots, csgo favors spraying heavily. If you don't spray you will be handicapped

There's enough randomness in the games gunplay that RNG will win a minimum of 5 frags per match you play.. From either side fragging or being fragged


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> There's enough randomness in the games gunplay that RNG will win a minimum of 5 frags per match you play.. From either side fragging or being fragged


I blame myself for not putting in the time and getting better, but sometimes it's really unnerving when some absurd moments occur that it might've been cuz of something outside my control. Not to mention how the game feels different at varying FPS levels, 64 tick,..


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Screams problem is that he goes for headshots, csgo favors spraying heavily. If you don't spray you will be handicapped
> 
> There's enough randomness in the games gunplay that RNG will win a minimum of 5 frags per match you play.. From either side fragging or being fragged


Yep.

I realized this 2 years ago at a belgian LAN. So many people I could outaim, but all they did was come around the corner holding mouse1.

imo CSGO is tactically more difficult then its predecessors, focuses more on teamplay, but at the cost of sort of "nerfing" the potential of an individual with exceptional aim. Though nevertheless, practicing HS only on a TDM (non HS TDM!) has always felt viable imo as it does tighten your headshot aim, even if you spray (spray with first burst aimed at head).

I also think certain mechanics such as aimpunch are responsible for this indirectly (wasn't 1.6 HS-only aimpunch?).

But this focus of "nerfing the individual" isn't just a CSGO thing tbh, it's showing in alot of games these days. Probably because developers are trying to push more "social" related gameplay, ...

"PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS"

Etc,

But sometimes when I get home from work, I just want a moment of solitude and just kick ass and chew bubblegum. BF4 Lockers, while the game is heavily flawed, is highly enjoyable for this


----------



## chr1spe

I wouldn't say it is that individual skill/aim doesn't matter. It is just that spraying is better than tapping in GO and scream can't spray nearly as well as many top riflers.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I wish Zowie would hurry the living hell up with their 3360 line up. The changes to the Ec line ups side buttons & the rest of the shell.


2017 ...

... maybe

i mean first they have to ship the new benq version ... then they have to change the mousewheel from 16 notches to 24 again or maybe they try to put in omrons again ... and maybe then they put in a new sensor ... (/s ... maybe







)


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scardd*
> 
> 2017 ...
> 
> ... maybe
> 
> i mean first they have to ship the new benq version ... then they have to change the mousewheel from 16 notches to 24 again and maybe then they put in a new sensor (/s ... maybe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I hope they already have this ish in development by now. The wolves are hungry for it. lol

Should be no reason why by the holidays this isn't out. However that is some hopeful wishing. I will laugh and buy someone here a beer if a small company like DreamMachines reiterates the DM1 Pro with some fixes, maybe a smidgen more room on the left side for bigger thumbs(juuuuust a lil bit) & the 3360 in there before Zowie does.

Maybe they do not wanna spend the $ pushing fixes and new mice(new in a way). They may feel the 3310 is solid enough in which I am sure most would agree it is. They'll come around when they choose to.

Edit: DreamMachines have the 3360 version in development along with some other tweaks & fixes & should have it out within the next 1-3 months apparently. Funny to say the least. They are rolling which is good to see.


----------



## Maximillion

Zowie knows they can take their sweet time and people will (re)buy their mice like hotcakes when they finally do come out.


----------



## Soo8

So when is the #adreNone comming out?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Edit: DreamMachines have the 3360 version in development


you mean they called dexin? i'mokaywiththis


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Edit: DreamMachines have the 3360 version in development along with some other tweaks & fixes & should have it out within the next 1-3 months apparently. Funny to say the least. They are rolling which is good to see.


That's interesting. It would be also nice if they released some firmwares for the DM1 Pro, so we could change the polling rate and/or something else (like smoothing or lod). I know they already have a 500hz firmware, but it's not possible to downgrade to the 1000hz firmware after you flash it.

Anyways, I bet they'll be faster than Finalmouse to deliver a 3360 mouse


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> you mean they called dexin? i'mokaywiththis


More likely they are using final mouse's custom from the ground up implementation via motospeed


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> So when is the #adreNone comming out?


I've never seen him play like that before, not even in ESEA pugs lol


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> That's interesting. It would be also nice if they released some firmwares for the DM1 Pro, so we could change the polling rate and/or something else (like smoothing or lod). I know they already have a 500hz firmware, but it's not possible to downgrade to the 1000hz firmware after you flash it.
> 
> Anyways, I bet they'll be faster than Finalmouse to deliver a 3360 mouse


fm said april


----------



## popups

April 1st announcement.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

For those that did not catch the scream ad

https://youtu.be/ul19QV_uff4


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

God that was a terrible ad.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> For those that did not catch the scream ad
> 
> https://youtu.be/ul19QV_uff4


Fun fact: I think in 2 out of the 3 in-game clips, he was not using a FinalMouse


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Fun fact: I think in 2 out of the 3 in-game clips, he was not using a FinalMouse


Interesting indeed. Lol


----------



## Bucake

does he even have above-average stats compared to all other pro csgo players?


----------



## m1hka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> does he even have above-average stats compared to all other pro csgo players?


Actually his stats is pretty high. He is in top30 in the statistic on HLTV.org. And there is no one near to him by headshot percentage. Most non-awpers have 35-55% hs and he has 70%.


----------



## Bucake

fair enough.
too bad.


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, I guess his all time stats aren't bad, but he hasn't been a top 20 player any time in the past year and his recent performance is worse. Literally the only stat really impressive about him is hs percentage. Watching him play actually frustrates me though. He will go for 1 taps at way to close of a range for that to be a good idea and get sprayed down if he doesn't get the one tap. Also when he does try to spray he messes it up more than any top rifler and actually more than a lot of mediocre riflers.


----------



## m1hka

Actually he has unbelievably huge potential but his skill hasn't been used properly in VG/Titan/G2. AFAIR he was performing much better in old G2/Kinguin.


----------



## PhaaTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Actually he has unbelievably huge potential but his skill hasn't been used properly in VG/Titan/G2. AFAIR he was performing much better in old G2/Kinguin.


He was above average (tier1 player) for like 3-4 months. Now EVERY1 will tell you that ScreaM is nothing more than AVERAGE pro. His aiming style is just bad.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhaaTe*
> 
> He was above average (tier1 player) for like 3-4 months. Now EVERY1 will tell you that ScreaM is nothing more than AVERAGE pro. His aiming style is just bad.


Well it's the game who has changed, not him. His strafe shooting / 1 tap style was SO much more powerful before the movement update in mid 2015. The m4a4 /m4a1 revisions seem to have worked out for him, he uses the m4a4 a lot now.

His HS% is still godly, but his play style doesn't really fit the current 'meta' of rifles and sprays in CS. I think his aim is still insane, but you are correct that his style is not very fitting for the game. It would be very hard to copy his movement / shooting and perform as well as him.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Actually he has unbelievably huge potential but his skill hasn't been used properly in VG/Titan/G2. AFAIR he was performing much better in old G2/Kinguin.


Idk, he was alright on g2/kinguin, but he wasn't great and the best that team has done was after he left. Stats wise 2013 with Very Games was by far the best he has ever done. I didn't really follow pro CS back then though.


----------



## PhaaTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Idk, he was alright on g2/kinguin, but he wasn't great and the best that team has done was after he left. Stats wise 2013 with Very Games was by far the best he has ever done. I didn't really follow pro CS back then though.


so, OK guy is promoting his mice. He can only shoot the HS but his gamestyle (movement, aiming style, positioning) is just bad. A players like SnaX, Guardian, NiKo, Shroud even or flamie are much more skilled than him.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhaaTe*
> 
> so, OK guy is promoting his mice. He can only shoot the HS but his gamestyle (movement, aiming style, positioning) is just bad. A players like SnaX, Guardian, NiKo, Shroud even or flamie are much more skilled than him.


There is more to a pro match than individual play, team work is a HUGE factor which is why some of the players you mentioned are able to put up heavy frags. ScreaM is one of the best aimers in the world (speaking in terms of putting crosshair on heads). His style got nerfed ever since the recoil update in 2013, movement update in 2014, and the general unreliable netcode of the source engine (some will argue first bullet inaccuracy when it's really the poor netcode). He's also lackluster in a team setting but he is amazing in pugs and deathmatch.


----------



## Robobot

I think regardless of what you think of how effective ScreaM is, keep in mind the guy has incredible aim - no-one can deny that. He's often got a headshot percentage that's almost DOUBLE the next highest person. I agree with many here in that, as a whole player, he's not great. He's no Olofmeister, Niko, etc. That said, he IS good at, as said above, 'putting crosshairs onto heads'. Now obviously a mouse won't make you 'better', we all know that, but while a good mouse can help (not hinder) your aim, it's immaterial for team play, positioning, etc.

So based on the merits of 'the guy can hit a pixel in an eighth of a second' it's not insane he has his own mouse.


----------



## Scrimstar

he was better w fm15se than his new mouse lol

its the 1.1 shape right, and he will be releasing 3.0 shape later in the year


----------



## Bucake

high hs percentage seems like a very logical result when headshots is all you go for..
any player would have a higher hs percentage if they all went for them sweet 1 tap headshots, rather than spray.
but yeah, stats are stats, so his name is an easy pick to use for selling a mouse, i guess.
he doesn't impress me though, as a player. (neither as a mouse-advertiser mehehe)


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> high hs percentage seems like a very logical result when headshots is all you go for..
> any player would have a higher hs percentage if they all went for them sweet 1 tap headshots, rather than spray.
> but yeah, stats are stats, so his name is an easy pick to use for selling a mouse, i guess.
> he doesn't impress me though, as a player. (and neither as a mouse-advertiser either mehehe)


True. Certain quake players consider him as mediocre/average. I guess because he mostly shines in only one area. His HS are amazing but he doesn't impress me overall as a player, either.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> high hs percentage seems like a very logical result when headshots is all you go for..
> any player would have a higher hs percentage if they all went for them sweet 1 tap headshots, rather than spray.
> but yeah, stats are stats, so his name is an easy pick to use for selling a mouse, i guess.
> he doesn't impress me though, as a player. (and neither as a mouse-advertiser either mehehe)


Yup, I wouldn't really even say he has great aim. He just has pretty boy aim. Back when I played soccer we would call it pretty boy shots when someone would take a ton of stupid shots so they would get that one shot that looked really insane even though they could have had more goals if they passed or tried to dribble in closer in a lot of the situations. We called it that because it was normally overly confident pretty boys that did it. It definitely fits in this case too though







.

Edit: Well maybe that is an over statement. Mostly I just think his aim is overrated. His aim is definitely good, but I just think there are plenty of players that are better even just aim wise.


----------



## PhaaTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> There is more to a pro match than individual play, team work is a HUGE factor which is why some of the players you mentioned are able to put up heavy frags. ScreaM is one of the best aimers in the world (speaking in terms of putting crosshair on heads). His style got nerfed ever since the recoil update in 2013, movement update in 2014, and the general unreliable netcode of the source engine (some will argue first bullet inaccuracy when it's really the poor netcode). He's also lackluster in a team setting but he is amazing in pugs and deathmatch.


No, no and NO. He can get frags on DMs, HS DMs, Aim_Botz custom map but in the real match he is below average/average. Shox is waaaaaaaay better "AIMER" than him. Cuz' to aim properly you have to know how to move, where to position yourself or how to catch your opponent off guard. Look how NiKo is just raping NiP players.

If you would have "cards" like those in the Fifa game, he would be like:

Movement = 2
Positioning = 2
Brain = 1
Putting crosshair on the head = 9

that's all. Quake players tend to play with even higher sensitivity than him and could aim better than him. eot/


----------



## Maximillion

Scream has amazing aim in a "10 paces and draw" kind of sense. Yet I can see why he's not regarded as one of the truly elite overall CS players because the game is multi-dimensional and has aspects that are beyond his "range" or preferred play style. He's probably somewhat overrated as a "CS player" not so much as an "aimer". It's easy to pick out players who are more "balanced" or who you'd rather have on your team if you were in a million-dollar tourney. But it's a bit more difficult to tally a substantial list of players that legitimately "aim" better than him.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Scream has amazing aim in a "10 paces and draw" kind of sense. Yet I can see why he's not regarded as one of the truly elite overall CS players because the game is multi-dimensional and has aspects that are beyond his "range" or preferred play style. He's probably somewhat overrated as a "CS player" not so much as an "aimer". It's easy to pick out players who are more "balanced" or who you'd rather have on your team if you were in a million-dollar tourney. But it's a bit more difficult to tally a substantial list of players that legitimately "aim" better than him.


I mean I would consider recoil control a large portion of aim and scream definitely isn't one of the best as far as that from what I've seen. There are plenty of different aspects of aim. There is flicking, tracking, recoil control, and I would even consider crosshair placement a part of aim. You aren't going to see scream get many quick 3 man spray downs or good spray transfers or things like that for example which I would consider more difficult and impressive than one taps. Even just considering different aspects of aim he isn't really a balanced aimer that can do the different things that I would consider for making someone a great aimer in the game.


----------



## rugi

So do we think Jude is going to lay down a release date by the end of this major? They said release was due for mid-late April yes? At this rate I'd be more willing to go in the G900 direction as far as 3366 mice go unless I hear something soon..


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robobot*
> 
> I think regardless of what you think of how effective ScreaM is, keep in mind the guy has incredible aim - no-one can deny that. He's often got a headshot percentage that's almost DOUBLE the next highest person. I agree with many here in that, as a whole player, he's not great. He's no Olofmeister, Niko, etc. That said, he IS good at, as said above, 'putting crosshairs onto heads'. Now obviously a mouse won't make you 'better', we all know that, but while a good mouse can help (not hinder) your aim, it's immaterial for team play, positioning, etc.
> 
> So based on the merits of 'the guy can hit a pixel in an eighth of a second' it's not insane he has his own mouse.


You will get more head shots when you seek them out. Most players do not care about getting the head shot like Scream does. Players think, "Spray first. If I get a head shot, great! If I don't, oh well -- still got the kill anyway."

I haven't analyzed Scream's aim recently. The last time I checked, he was very slow to land his shot. I don't know if it's his mouse that makes him slow or it's just him trying to land the head shot in 1 click.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Players think, "Spray first. If I get a head shot, great! If I don't, oh well -- still got the kill anyway."


unless you're shroud and you can spin around 180 in the middle of a spray and aim it perfectly onto an enemy's head


----------



## nyshak

So this will be the first mouse with the 3360. Interesting to see how this will turn out in reviews. On FB Finalmouse said this will start to sell early april. So...um....next week maybe.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> So this will be the first mouse with the 3360.


Oh, did they post an actual product picture with internals shot instead of concept drawings? Mice with the 3360 and 3330 are already released.


----------



## nyshak

http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences#_=_
Quote:


> With the upcoming arrival of the much anticipated Scream One, we thought it would be cool to list the engineering & product differences that help the Scream One stand in a league of its own!
> 
> Differences:
> 
> - Re-engineered Tooling for the entire bottom shell
> 
> - Bottom shell now accommodates the 3360 sensor and lens at a position that is 2mm higher. We found that this 2mm higher position gives hybrid and fingertip gamers like Scream faster and more versatile movements through the motion of their fingers, thus increasing their accuracy.
> 
> - New shell/tooling changes now also accommodates a newly engineered side switch. By getting rid of the metal side mounted tactile switches we were instead able to modify the tooling to hold a miniPCB that allows us to use Huanos switches.
> 
> - Use of huanos switches instead of metal side mounted tactile switches reduces the weight of the Scream One substantially
> 
> - The Scream One of course utilizes the 3360 sensor implementation we developed from the ground up right here at finalmouse. The PCB circuity and design was re-engineered by us to utilize the new sensor as well as our new NXP processor.
> 
> - The firmware for the ScreamOne 3360 was designed and developed by us for no reason other than pure performance. Everything was designed down to spec to ensure we were matching every reference and recommendation given by Pixart. Everything down to the sensors microsecond timing parameters were coded to meet Pixart Spec.
> 
> - The 3360 implementation will include 1000hz (1ms) polling, optimized LOD, zero smoothing or filtering, and no variance/acceleration.
> 
> - The Scream One's left and right click Omron's have been upgraded to a longer life variant
> 
> Changes that are also going into the new Tournament Pro batch:
> 
> -Fixed tooling to alleviate loose/rattling clickers
> 
> -Lightbleed fix
> 
> -Reduction of logo/mousewheel light intensity
> 
> Availability, Price:
> 
> The Scream One will MSRP at $76.99 and will be the first Finalmouse to go into retail and distribution expansion worldwide. This retail availability means better accessibility for customers as well as lower prices in the future! We expect the Scream One to be available for purchase sometime early-mid april depending on region!


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

So, nothing. Thought so.


----------



## nyshak

What nothing? Pics with internals aren't really common. Also, what other mouse has the 3360 atm?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> What nothing? Pics with internals aren't really common. Also, what other mouse has the 3360 atm?


Corsair M65 Pro
Rival 700 may come out before the Final Mouse
G303
G502
G900

Who knows how many more will come out soon. The M65 Pro wasn't even mentioned until it was available pretty much because not every company focuses on hype and advertising. Final mouse doesn't seem to want to show anything about the mouse. They just want to write things which may be more of their half lies and show frag videos of scream.


----------



## qsxcv

LOL
so finalmouse has turned into bst#2


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> On FB Finalmouse said this will start to sell early april. So...um....next week maybe.


Lol yeah right, if it were to be out next week they would've been screaming it from the rooftops with all these ads theyre playing at MLG. I think they're further behind schedule than they're letting on


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Lol yeah right, if it were to be out next week they would've been screaming it from the rooftops with all these ads theyre playing at MLG. I think they're further behind schedule than they're letting on


An actual ad @ MLG =/= shouting from rooftops? Seems to me it is. Of course the thing can get delayed still. I won't get a mouse with such a ridiculous signiture on it, but I want to see how it performs. Just looking forward for a good review I guess.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> An actual ad @ MLG =/= shouting from rooftops? Seems to me it is. Of course the thing can get delayed still. I won't get a mouse with such a ridiculous signiture on it, but I want to see how it performs. Just looking forward for a good review I guess.


Why is there no release date in the advertisement? If it was coming out so soon why are they still hiding the date? That's what I mean.


----------



## aayman_farzand

FM just got back to me, they expect release of the S1 to be on the 25th. No pre-sale.


----------



## qsxcv

first it was "soon", then it was march, then it was early-mid april, now april 25, ... i'll predict this summer


----------



## Atavax

How are the mouse feet of previous finalmouse mice? The light weight with high end sensor is appealing, but if the mouse feet aren't good, light weight is negated.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> first it was "soon", then it was march, then it was early-mid april, now april 25, ... i'll predict this summer


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> He said the Scream1 is still in development. 1-2 months is idealistic. *Don't be surprised when if it turns out to be 6 months or longer*.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Since the DreamMachines mouse was seen using the FinalMouse PCB *it appears FinalMouse dropped off the map for the most part*.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> What nothing? Pics with internals aren't really common. Also, what other mouse has the 3360 atm?


By the way, the Rival 700 is already in the hands a many people.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> That being said, we are very close to sending out beta samples
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We are moving as fast as possible to have samples of multiple variants ready not just for the community/pros to beta test but to also put into production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I've said before we have already been playing and testing with it for a while. You will see a firmware without it on a different mcu with the beta samples of the new sensor before the variants even are available. Hopefully we have beta samples sent out by next week. We are waiting on ATC reps to get more chips to us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Be patient and you will have beta samples as promised, we are going to value the input you give on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> since you first mentioned it, it's been 6 months
> 
> http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> We expect the Scream One to be available for purchase sometime early-mid april depending on region!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh okay. so it's march. what's your plan, to give us "beta" samples 1month before the actual product's release?
> so what's the point of this "testing"? to give you guys feedback or to promote an already completed product?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We had to change mcus and change the circuit design recently which was a setback but we finally settled on a new design with an STM controller so once we have these new pcbs fabricated hopefully we can start beta testing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> The PCB circuity and design was re-engineered by us to utilize the new sensor as well as our new NXP processor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh yea "settled" on a STmicro controller less than 2 months ago and then suddenly it's NXP? what the hell are you guys doing? not that there's anything wrong with either brand of mcus, but still, you're going to have to do a lot more than posting 10lines of standard code to convince me that your pcb design and firmware was not simply done by some other odm/oem
Click to expand...

finalmouse will surely deliver.
let's just wait


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> finalmouse will surely deliver.
> let's just wait


i mean, its in its name... it will be the final mouse ever to launch.... going to be awhile...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> How are the mouse feet of previous finalmouse mice? The light weight with high end sensor is appealing, but if the mouse feet aren't good, light weight is negated.


They're actually pretty good. I'm not an expert by any means, but the quality seemed superior to most other mouse feet I've seen.


----------



## qsxcv

well if they changwd factories for thia one... who knows


----------



## rugi

doesn't exactly inspire confidence, lol. I hope it turns out well though, don't want to shell out another 70-80 bucks for a g900.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well if they changwd factories for thia one... who knows


They look like the TigerGaming mousefeet actually, didn't notice that at first.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> They look like the TigerGaming mousefeet actually, didn't notice that at first.


I doubt it those feet suck, feel like sandpaper

Wonder if this mouse will be any good too bad they opted for that braided cable

Anyway Amazon returns make things easy


----------



## coldc0ffee

April 25. Let's see of that's really the case. In before :"Sorry! There's some issues at Amazon's sorting facility."


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> April 25. Let's see of that's really the case. In before :"Sorry! There's some issues at Amazon's sorting facility."


If they can stick to that date, wouldn't they of had a booth @ MLG's CS:GO Major, which they sponsored I believe, with at least a few ScreaM One's for people to try?


----------



## Sencha

I think
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I doubt it those feet suck, feel like sandpaper
> 
> Wonder if this mouse will be any good too bad they opted for that braided cable
> 
> Anyway Amazon returns make things easy


Did you remove the coating? They have a peel away film on top of them.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I think
> Did you remove the coating? They have a peel away film on top of them.


They have 3-4 different textures I think. And one of them looks extremely gritty, and is labeled 'tournament edition' or 'professional edition'. Sounds like he got that one possibly.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Enjoy.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy.


Cold world lol


----------



## popups

That advert could have been good if they had added in shots of him using the mouse. You know plugging it in, hand cam of him getting kills, etc. On his stream he shows his hand movements.. Anyway, this could be an intro to his documentary rather than a mouse advert.


----------



## Poodle

Id rather buy S1mple One mouse than Scream one.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That advert could have been good if they had added in shots of him using the mouse. You know plugging it in, hand cam of him getting kills, etc. On his stream he shows his hand movements.. Anyway, this could be an intro to his documentary rather than a mouse advert.


The ad didn't do anything for me personally, but I think it was more just to let people know 'hey this product exists' also I'm pretty sure 100% of those frags in the video were from him using his deathadder, the mouse he'd probably default to anytime he isn't forced to use one - all those titan guys love the razer goliathus as well. We'll see if he uses his 'branded' mouse in the future


----------



## Nixtix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> finalmouse will surely deliver.
> let's just wait


Surprised they haven't sent out samples yet considering several members of the community already have the Rival 700.....


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> Surprised they haven't sent out samples yet considering several members of the community already have the Rival 700.....


I'm pretty sure they're behind schedule. Still no word of release date or if 4/25 is the confirmed.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> I'm pretty sure they're behind schedule. Still no word of release date or if 4/25 is the confirmed.


Didn't they claim they would be sending out beta mice a long time ago? That is a different thing than a finished product.

The G900 and Rival 700 were in people's hands way before release.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Didn't they claim they would be sending out beta mice a long time ago? That is a different thing than a finished product.
> 
> The G900 and Rival 700 were in people's hands way before release.


Well obviously with their great track record of everything being perfect on the first run they will not have to do as many revisions and as much testing as logitech and steelseries


----------



## popups

They should have done something like this for their marketing/unveiling.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They should have done something like this for their marketing/unveiling.


I have the same Yoshi figurine that's on the table.


----------



## espgodson

And he's not using the scream one in that 1v1 video I'm seriously wondering if it even exists


----------



## SmashTV

Doesn't mean much if he's not using it. Maybe his contract wasn't strict within using the mouse only allowing his name on it and likeness for ads.


----------



## cnnd

They know me as the headshot machine. They know me from the highlights they see. They know me from the matches they watch. They talk about my one taps and they think for me aiming is so easy. I just go into a match and that's it. But my aim, it's comes from more than just a game. For me - aim - it is about precision... This part people don't see. This part, it does not show up in highlights. When I sit down to play everything already is a part of me...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> They know me as the headshot machine. They know me from the highlights they see. They know me from the matches they watch. They talk about my one taps and they think for me aiming is so easy. I just go into a match and that's it. But my aim, it's comes from more than just a game. For me - aim - it is about precision... This part people don't see. This part, it does not show up in highlights. When I sit down to play everything already is a part of me...


Have you masturbated to the video?


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> They know me as the headshot machine. They know me from the highlights they see. They know me from the matches they watch. They talk about my one taps and they think for me aiming is so easy. I just go into a match and that's it. But my aim, it's comes from more than just a game. For me - aim - it is about precision... This part people don't see. This part, it does not show up in highlights. When I sit down to play everything already is a part of me...


Pepul, zey no mi ass ze hetshot mashin. zey no mi from ze hilaitz dey zi. zey no mee from ze matchz zey wutch. dei tok abot mai wundabz end zey zink fu mi ayyming iz soh ez. i juz go into a metch end detsit. butt my ayym itz cum furmor den juz a gaem. foh mi... aym... it iz abot pwezishun... dis pot pepul dun si. dis port it dus not show up in hilaitz. wen i seet doun to plei evryting arreddii iz apot uv mi.﻿


----------



## TriviumKM

Please, for the love of god don't turn overclock into twitch chat, reddit, or hltv.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Pepul, zey no mi ass ze hetshot mashin. zey no mi from ze hilaitz dey zi. zey no mee from ze matchz zey wutch. dei tok abot mai wundabz end zey zink fu mi ayyming iz soh ez. i juz go into a metch end detsit. butt my ayym itz cum furmor den juz a gaem. foh mi... aym... it iz abot pwezishun... dis pot pepul dun si. dis port it dus not show up in hilaitz. wen i seet doun to plei evryting arreddii iz apot uv mi.﻿


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> They know me as the headshot machine. They know me from the highlights they see. They know me from the matches they watch. They talk about my one taps and they think for me aiming is so easy. I just go into a match and that's it. But my aim, it's comes from more than just a game. For me - aim - it is about precision... This part people don't see. This part, it does not show up in highlights. When I sit down to play everything already is a part of me...


this is so meaningless and incoherent.... blshsyahkekzjjd i cringe even reading it


----------



## coldc0ffee

Yeah this ad makes the cringe tingles climb up my spine


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Please, for the love of god don't turn overclock into twitch chat, reddit, or hltv.


Twitch chat still exists!? I guess it's only me that considers it dead.

Reddit is...









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is so meaningless and incoherent.... blshsyahkekzjjd i cringe even reading it


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Yeah this ad makes the cringe tingles climb up my spine


They could have combined that advert and a 1 vs 1 video (like the one I linked). Could have had him setting up his mouse, sitting down and playing against another top/respected player.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They could have combined that advert and a 1 vs 1 video (like the one I linked). Could have had him setting up his mouse, sitting down and playing against another top/respected player.


I dont think there is anyone who would deliberately lose, regardless of the money.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espgodson*
> 
> And he's not using the scream one in that 1v1 video I'm seriously wondering if it even exists


When he showed the mouse on stream, he said hes not gonna use it for a while because he had important events coming up, and he is already used to the normal finalmouse that changing with short notice would hinder his performance at those events.

Pros just doesn't care about sensors, its all about shape, i dont think he likes it himself, specielly that he has always been a fan of ergonomical mice, IE 3.0 etc. and suddenly, FM is using the tournament pro ambi shape. But don't worry, he'll be forced to use it sooner or later.


----------



## qsxcv

what he showed on stream is probably just a shell with 3310 internals.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> I dont think there is anyone who would deliberately lose, regardless of the money.


You can have him play a NA player.









Seriously... You don't have to show him lose a 1 vs 1. Just take shots of him using the mouse and show some highlights frags. It's just a short advert.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> When he showed the mouse on stream, he said hes not gonna use it for a while because he had important events coming up, and he is already used to the normal finalmouse that changing with short notice would hinder his performance at those events.
> 
> Pros just doesn't care about sensors, its all about shape, i dont think he likes it himself, specielly that he has always been a fan of ergonomical mice, IE 3.0 etc. and suddenly, FM is using the tournament pro ambi shape. But don't worry, he'll be forced to use it sooner or later.


The TP has been out for a long time. He had enough time to switch mice. Other pros switched mice near events and after events.

I switch mice regularly without requiring more than a few days to get used to it. I have to make sure to verify the CPI and adjust my sensitivity before I use it.

Why do the pros that own ADNS-3090 Zowie mice buy/use PMW-3310 Zowie mice? If you already have an EC2 why get a EC2-A?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can have him play a NA player.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously... You don't have to show him lose a 1 vs 1. Just take shots of him using the mouse and show some highlights frags. It's just a short advert.
> The TP has been out for a long time. He had enough time to switch mice. Other pros switched mice near events and after events.
> 
> I switch mice regularly without requiring more than a few days to get used to it. I have to make sure to verify the CPI and adjust my sensitivity before I use it.
> 
> Why do the pros that own ADNS-3090 Zowie mice buy/use PMW-3310 Zowie mice? If you already have an EC2 why get a EC2-A?


Didn't Zowie's implementation of the 3090 and their custom lens have some issues? They changed the coating and scroll wheel, other than that, probably because they get it for free.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Didn't Zowie's implementation of the 3090 and their custom lens have some issues? They changed the coating and scroll wheel, other than that, probably because they get it for free.


The lens was problematic on some mouse pads and could easily get dirty.

The worst part of the 3090 Zowies is the MCU created CPI steps. Hence my question about why a pro would not take out his trusty EC2 he used before contracts.

They probably use the 3310 Zowies because they think the sensor is better.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The lens was problematic on some mouse pads and could easily get dirty.
> 
> The worst part of the 3090 Zowies is the MCU created CPI steps. Hence my question about why a pro would not take out his trusty EC2 he used before contracts.
> 
> They probably use the 3310 Zowies because they think the sensor is better.


Still don't get why the 3310 is used more often than the 3988. Is it cheaper/easier to implement?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Still don't get why the 3310 is used more often than the 3988. Is it cheaper/easier to implement?


The 3988 was Razer exclusive for a while wasn't it? Or were they just the only one to use it for a while. I think the 3988 is a couple $ more a sensor so it may just be because of money. A couple $ might not seem like much, but that is also about the difference between a 3050 and a 3310.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The 3988 was Razer exclusive for a while wasn't it? Or were they just the only one to use it for a while. I think the 3988 is a couple $ more a sensor so it may just be because of money. A couple $ might not seem like much, but that is also about the difference between a 3050 and a 3310.


Not really sure to be honest. Only other mice I've seen with that sensor besides Razer, is Evga Torq X5 & Roccat Kone XTD.


----------



## Melan

Asus gladius also has it.


----------



## qsxcv

i think 3988 kind of forces you to use 2 pcbs, or at the very least, redesign the shell to accommodate a raised pcb.
whereas 3310 has the same package as the 3090


----------



## ncck

I'm looking into this mouse but I'm so scared that the coating will be bad

Looking at this and a za12/11 since the rival broke and dm1 coating is gone.. Ugh ;(


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm looking into this mouse but I'm so scared that the coating will be bad
> 
> Looking at this and a za12/11 since the rival broke and dm1 coating is gone.. Ugh ;(


The DM1 is a FinalMouse/MotoSpeed product.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm looking into this mouse but I'm so scared that the coating will be bad
> 
> Looking at this and a za12/11 since the rival broke and dm1 coating is gone.. Ugh ;(


Pics of the coating gone?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Pics of the coating gone?


It's not burned through like the original rival if that's what you're asking, but it's a visible wear marking and my finger slides when I apply pressure. I'll upload a pic when it's not a cloudy day so you can see it better









edit: I'm full claw (so my fingers apply pressure to both the right/left sides inward)


----------



## Scrimstar

worst ad campaign ever. dont sell ANY products during their MLG ads, and not only does everyone see scream play bad, they forget about the product itself.

really hope it does come out soon, i dont see many other good 3360s coming out.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> worst ad campaign ever. dont sell ANY products during their MLG ads, and not only does everyone see scream play bad, they forget about the product itself.
> 
> really hope it does come out soon, i dont see many other good 3360s coming out.


Yea cause Zowie is slower than a snail in a 100 yard dash.

Editional Edit: Maybe they are comfy is all.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> worst ad campaign ever. dont sell ANY products during their MLG ads, and not only does everyone see scream play bad, they forget about the product itself.
> 
> really hope it does come out soon, i dont see many other good 3360s coming out.


The text of the ad is basically a meme now, so I would say it is a success


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea cause Zowie is slower than a snail in a 100 yard dash.
> 
> Editional Edit: Maybe they are comfy is all.


BenQ is spending the money on marketing rather than improvements.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> BenQ is spending the money on marketing rather than improvements.


I have noticed, didn't they just announce another sponsorship or something on twitter?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have noticed, didn't they just announce another sponsorship or something on twitter?


I thought I saw a Zowie logo on Cloud9 jerseys! C9 uses Logitech gear. I think I saw the same with other teams. Zowie logos everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Or25FZnJw&t=4m32s


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I thought I saw a Zowie logo on Cloud9 jerseys! C9 uses Logitech gear. I think I saw the same with other teams. Zowie logos everywhere.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Or25FZnJw&t=4m32s


It's a contract with the organization, basically Logitech has a deal with c9 so the players are marketing their gear in exchange for funds traveling, fees, etc

They constantly have nothing visit their office to test gear and go to events yearly to advertise with them

It's an image at this point because so many gamers respect nothing for the godlike cs player he was

So zowie gets on the Jersey but no way can they outdo Logitech in terms of funding. It's marketing from both sides but Logitech wants to uphold an image as well I guess? Sort of like how nothing is the "face" of c9

Anyway I'm curious if the wireless g900 is faster than a wired scream one.. Now that's something I'm interested to see haha


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's a contract with the organization, basically Logitech has a deal with c9 so the players are marketing their gear in exchange for funds traveling, fees, etc
> 
> They constantly have nothing visit their office to test gear and go to events yearly to advertise with them
> 
> It's an image at this point because so many gamers respect nothing for the godlike cs player he was
> 
> So zowie gets on the Jersey but no way can they outdo Logitech in terms of funding. It's marketing from both sides but Logitech wants to uphold an image as well I guess? Sort of like how nothing is the "face" of c9
> 
> Anyway I'm curious if the wireless g900 is faster than a wired scream one.. Now that's something I'm interested to see haha


Prior to being bought out by BenQ, Zowie was not on jerseys along side other peripheral companies. They didn't have the funds to sponsor teams like Razer, SteelSeries and Logitech do.

For Logitech G to be fine with Zowie being marketed along side their logo is weird. You would assume they wouldn't want other peripheral companies being pushed by teams they pay to use their products.

By the way, I know how esports revenue is generated. That wasn't the point of my statement.


----------



## chr1spe

I'm guessing benq basically gets a spot on their jersy and decided to put the zowie logo there. Benq sponsors a huge amount of teams including c9 so if they decided to use what is basically their advertisement spot for zowie it would make sense to see it every where now. Zowie has always been slow to update their products though afaik so that hasn't really changed. I wonder if they will go more main stream and offer optional software eventually. Doesn't readily matter to me though unless they lower the price and make some decent smaller finger tip/claw shapes.


----------



## ncck

Yeah it's most likely the benQ association.. or maybe logitech doesn't even consider them competition


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yeah it's most likely the benQ association.. or maybe logitech doesn't even consider them competition


Maybe they should since they are everywhere on the scene. Lol


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Maybe they should since they are everywhere on the scene. Lol


Eh it's bigger than the 'pro scene' they're gaming mice, there's millions of gamers who have no interest in being competitive. I'm sure global sales would show a different picture


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Eh it's bigger than the 'pro scene' they're gaming mice, there's millions of gamers who have no interest in being competitive. I'm sure global sales would show a different picture


That i can agree with.


----------



## Scrimstar

i dont think scream1 will be faster than g900, bc of click latency, and no software to adjust lod

they said g900 is ~1.3ms slower wireless than the wired 3366 counterparts


----------



## loki993

Wait 2 month saying will be announced soon..finally get a crappy reveal on a twitch video....2 months later still "coming soon" yeah over this mouse. No info, no release date.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> Wait 2 month saying will be announced soon..finally get a crappy reveal on a twitch video....2 months later still "coming soon" yeah over this mouse. No info, no release date.


Their PR is pretty atrocious. I'm slowly succumbing to the temptation of the G900 boys..


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Their PR is pretty atrocious. I'm slowly succumbing to the temptation of the G900 boys..


G900(which is amazing) & the Zowie Ec is all I give a lick about right now. I wanna try out the darn ec2-a but it's sold out everywhere, I want a hands on just to see how it feels in the palm and if it is too small. They get restocked then are gone within the blink of a darn eye.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> G900(which is amazing) & the Zowie Ec is all I give a lick about right now. I wanna try out the darn ec2-a but it's sold out everywhere, I want a hands on just to see how it feels in the palm and if it is too small. They get restocked then are gone within the blink of a darn eye.


I hear you sir. I got a EC1-A which has served me very well but I do miss the fast click response feel of the G303. I was going to hold out for the ScreamOne but if it doesn't land this month I'll probably say screw it and get the G900 instead.


----------



## ncck

I'm pretty sure you can buy the ec on the benQ website.. ah but only the ec1-a the ec2-a is out of stock. Anyway I went with the g900


----------



## crovean

benq europe has everything in stock


----------



## P54J

Waiting..


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can buy the ec on the benQ website.. ah but only the ec1-a the ec2-a is out of stock. Anyway I went with the g900


Yep ec1-a only, sadly. I know zowie said that the ec1-a is one of if not the highest selling mouse they have, so i see why it's stock the most.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> I hear you sir. I got a EC1-A which has served me very well but I do miss the fast click response feel of the G303. I was going to hold out for the ScreamOne but if it doesn't land this month I'll probably say screw it and get the G900 instead.


Yea you'll love the g900. Lol idk about the scream yet, i did care but not so much anymore. If Drake can announce his album date then FM can announce a release too hell.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> benq europe has everything in stock


I'm in Cali, rexflo sold out in like 12 minutes. Those Hoes. Lol


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> G900(which is amazing) & the Zowie Ec is all I give a lick about right now. I wanna try out the darn ec2-a but it's sold out everywhere, I want a hands on just to see how it feels in the palm and if it is too small. They get restocked then are gone within the blink of a darn eye.


Compared to ec1, it is absolutely tiny.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Compared to ec1, it is absolutely tiny.


I do like smaller mice, such as the FM2015 which is quite short. The DA is short as well though it is not considered 'small'.


----------



## drewno

Quote:


> I do like smaller mice, such as the FM2015 which is quite short. The DA is short as well though it is not considered 'small'.


Then why would u want to get ec2-a instead of ec1-a? ec2-a feels smaller than DA.
In my opinion ec series is too heavy, but the shape is definitly one of the most comfortable.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drewno*
> 
> Then why would u want to get ec2-a instead of ec1-a? ec2-a feels smaller than DA.
> In my opinion ec series is too heavy, but the shape is definitly one of the most comfortable.


The EC2 is okay weight wise (it's ~92g) for a right hand mouse.


----------



## aayman_farzand

"The release date has been pushed back but progress is surely being made. The Scream1 will be available late May (tentatively)."

The G900 is looking so much more tempting now...


----------



## Nilizum

I wonder if they are going to keep the same sensor position as the tournament pro with the scream1. Especially with a wider butt than the ergo, I do not understand why they decided to raise the sensor position of the tournament pro. If the guy they are sponsoring, Scream is used to the Ergo which has the position at 61mm, there is no way he is going to have the same amount of precision with the sensor position on the ambi being 5+ that. They should have kept the same at 61mm figure. The 61mm is actually optimal for that kind of shape, is familiar to the ergo, and keeps the precision of the ergo PLUS extra mobility of an ambidextrous shape. But noooo, the geniuses at FM with their tens of thousands of dollars R&D decided to over emphasize mobility, randomly putting the sensor position at a dumb point resulting in an imbalanced mouse. Really don't know what they are thinking. It's no wonder their sponsored player isn't even using the ambidextrous line ironically tailed to him.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I wonder if they are going to keep the same sensor position as the tournament pro with the scream1. Especially with a wider butt than the ergo, I do not understand why they decided to raise the sensor position of the tournament pro. If the guy they are sponsoring, Scream is used to the Ergo which has the position at 61mm, there is no way he is going to have the same amount of precision with the sensor position on the ambi being 5+ that. They should have kept the same at 61mm figure. The 61mm is actually optimal for that kind of shape, is familiar to the ergo, and keeps the precision of the ergo PLUS extra mobility of an ambidextrous shape. But noooo, the geniuses at FM with their tens of thousands of dollars R&D decided to over emphasize mobility, randomly putting the sensor position at a dumb point resulting in an imbalanced mouse. Really don't know what they are thinking. It's no wonder their sponsored player isn't even using the ambidextrous line ironically tailed to him.


guys scream one or ec1-a? i m low senser


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The release date has been pushed back but progress is surely being made. The Scream1 will be available late May (tentatively)."
> 
> The G900 is looking so much more tempting now...


wOW!!!!!
is anyone surprised?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I wonder if they are going to keep the same sensor position as the tournament pro with the scream1. Especially with a wider butt than the ergo, I do not understand why they decided to raise the sensor position of the tournament pro. If the guy they are sponsoring, Scream is used to the Ergo which has the position at 61mm, there is no way he is going to have the same amount of precision with the sensor position on the ambi being 5+ that. They should have kept the same at 61mm figure. The 61mm is actually optimal for that kind of shape, is familiar to the ergo, and keeps the precision of the ergo PLUS extra mobility of an ambidextrous shape. But noooo, the geniuses at FM with their tens of thousands of dollars R&D decided to over emphasize mobility, randomly putting the sensor position at a dumb point resulting in an imbalanced mouse. Really don't know what they are thinking. It's no wonder their sponsored player isn't even using the ambidextrous line ironically tailed to him.


How far forward is the sensor on the IntelliMouse Explorer 3 when it's in your hand? The IE3 is what Scream preferred.

Scream likes to use his wrist for most of his movement. When I play the same way, I like the sensor to be more towards the front like the WMO.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The release date has been pushed back but progress is surely being made. The Scream1 will be available late May (tentatively)."
> 
> The G900 is looking so much more tempting now...


Early April. Then late April. Now late May.

Finalmouse "Marketing"

I'll prob have a G900 by then.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Early April. Then late April. Now late May.
> 
> Finalmouse "Marketing"
> 
> I'll prob have a G900 by then.


By the time it's released, and the 2nd batch comes out to fix the issues, you can probably buy a G900 used for an okay price.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The release date has been pushed back but progress is surely being made. The Scream1 will be available late May (tentatively)."
> 
> The G900 is looking so much more tempting now...


source for this?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> source for this?


It's from an email response.


----------



## qsxcv

lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream one will still be announced but there is still no date on availability. I think alot of people have been confusing the scream one unveiling with its actual release for purchase.
> 
> We still intend on doing some brief beta testing here within the community before mass production. So the scream 1 availability may not be until *late february-early march.*
> 
> Thanks,
> Jude


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Hello
> 
> For the scream one availability I know for a fact mlg major weekend is a big target that is trying to be hit. So I would imagine it would be be before then. *Early March is optimistic , late March conservative , and mid April being worst case scenario.*
> 
> We had to change mcus and change the circuit design recently which was a setback but we finally settled on a new design with an STM controller so once we have these new pcbs fabricated hopefully we can start beta testing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jude


http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences
Quote:


> We expect the Scream One to be available for purchase sometime *early-mid april* depending on region!


literally bst


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol
> 
> http://finalmouse.tumblr.com/post/140650752681/scream-one-improvements-differences
> 
> literally bst


I wouldn't want to be Scream when people start bothering him about when his signature mouse is going to be released.


----------



## chr1spe

Guys they're just waiting until G2 gets out of groups in a tournament to release the mouse. It could be a while.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Guys they're just waiting until G2 gets out of groups in a tournament to release the mouse. It could be a while.


Savagee lol


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Guys they're just waiting until G2 gets out of groups in a tournament to release the mouse. It could be a while.


The Titan curse followed them to G2


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> early-mid april


Tomorrow then?


----------



## k4rstar

The email response I got a few days ago had a tentative schedule of late April for the Classic Ergo and late May for the Tournament Pro and Scream1.

I wouldn't hold my breath for this mouse right now.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Finalmouse hq


----------



## ncck

Well I guess this is what I learned in marketing about PR backfire


----------



## rugi

Jude when he opens his overclock inbox


----------



## ncck

what episode is that, is that the rainbow krabby patties?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Finalmouse production facility


----------



## coldc0ffee

This is too fun


----------



## woll3

Apparently working hard on a new Firmware:


----------



## chr1spe

I prefer


----------



## aLv1080

This video is even better


----------



## Alya

That gif explains this thread pretty well.


----------



## a_ak57

The animal stuff implies that finalmouse themselves are actually doing something real and not just calling the factory once in a while to be like "heeeey, sorry to bother you again but i was kinda maybe hoping if you're not too busy you could finish up that firmware and make our mice, not a big deal though, don't mean to bother you if you're busy" to which the factory says "no frig off" and fm says "oh that's cool, just let us know when you get a chance to work on it because we were kinda hoping to have them out soon and--- oh i guess they hung up, that's fine they'll get around to it soon i'm sure, i guess in the meantime we could probably stop falsely advertising the weights but eh that'd be like a whole thing so nvm"


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> How far forward is the sensor on the IntelliMouse Explorer 3 when it's in your hand? The IE3 is what Scream preferred.
> 
> Scream likes to use his wrist for most of his movement. When I play the same way, I like the sensor to be more towards the front like the WMO.


A lot of my peers liked the IE3.0 as well. Great shape. I don't remember what I measured on it (don't have an IE3.0 anymore so cannot re-measure) but i think it was 69+ or 70+. It was pretty high since it was a big mouse. The thing is, after I explained the sensor position importance to them and made them properly match their cm/360 with the parallel lines test, they all switched to something lower and preferred more balanced sensor positions within the 60-63mm* range. They still tell me they love the shape though, but that's it. Performance-wise, they liked other solutions. Keep in mind one big thing affecting the discrepancies of a cm/360 with the IE3.0 is the fact that there's negative acceleration past 1.6 m/s (this is a pretty big deal).

I personally use a lot of wrist movement, and that's where sensor position impacts most players. If you really PREFER a higher sensor position, it's not wrong to. It is what you like, however I cannot agree that without overcompensating one's sensitivity can one realize the significance of precision loss/gain vs mobility loss/gain, which is one of the reasons why I still push this idea. Over on the thread I wrote, some people just disregarded it as preference only. And like I said, I don't shun those that regard it as preference, but preference ONLY? NO.

Some things to note:
-Think about how mice side button placement is designed.
-Think about curvature and grooves in mice.
-Think about m1/m2 placement, scroll wheel placement.

These things cannot be placed just anywhere, or else people cannot reach or press them properly. Mice have intended grips, and there should be an intended sensor position. But for some reason it is ignored. Apparently the idea is too abstract for some people.

Some correlations to note:
-Rapha uses an unorthodox grip on his WMO and holds the mouse higher so the sensor position is technically lower for his grip. This is to compensate for his high sensitivity and accel so he has more precision. ~25cm/360
-Toxjq who has an othodox grip plays at 36cm/360 to counter the precision loss from the high sensor position.
-Hiko's cm/360 changed when he switched from the Logitech G100s(low sensor position) to Zowie ambi line (high sensor position). His cm/360 became lower to counter the higher sensor position.

But the discrepancies are still there. Adjusting sensitivity accordingly or adjusting grip style accordingly is adding one more thing to worry about. The main idea of designing a mouse with a balanced sensor position is to just let the players aim properly and not having to get used to discrepancies. A more efficient pursuit to attaining muscle memory.

---

Scream got used to the FM Ergo. FM Ergo being FM's first mouse, no idea why they would change the base precision level with their second mouse to something worse, especially when the main target are CS players that seek precision. If they had used the same 61mm, Scream's transition if cm/360 synchronized would've been a very easy transition.

I had some beef with FM Ergo's sensor position at first when my ideas about optimal sensor positions were still new. I did some more research and found the 61mm figure on the FM Ergo is actually a pretty optimal figure. Wrist movement vs "straight"(elbow based) movement were mostly balanced.

I am honestly very impressed in Finalmouse's build choice with the FM-ergo. Very low latency clicks, 3310 implementation with very little variation, light weight, and a rounded butt. The sensor position is great. However the shape is something to consider. I feel that ergo shapes always force a certain kind of hand movement, and ambidextrous mice are more free. I really wish they did a better job researching proper sensor position for their ambi line.

Steelseries designed their mice with lower sensor positions. They realized that they detracted from their original formula with the original Rival, which is why the Rival700 has a lower sensor position. While I believe that most of their mice have sensor positions that are just too low (this actually is in favor of CS players), they do have a concept in the right direction. The lower sensor position is +precision on pivots, which is ideal for CS players who do not care too much about tracing over a wide distance which is something more prevalent in faster paced games. The greater the angle the pivot, the more precision is attained. However if the player tried the same thing in a faster paced games the fault is going to be shown.

In the pursuit of muscle memory, that mouse-sensitivity.com website was created and the people there try to help users sync their cm/360. Same aim, different game right? It is generally not wise to use 36cm/360 for one game, and then 18cm/360 for another. The user's idea of movement per angle gets distorted, grip techniques change, and aiming starts to be more visually reflex based than muscle memory based. Low sensitivities do not work so well in faster paced games. There IS such a thing an efficient sensitivity that is not too low or too high. Quake cpma and Quake Live play on this notion, and so does TF2. What I'm trying to say is, a good sensitivity works in fast paced games such as Tf2(aiming a scout properly without losing him or wasting too much time repositioning mouse) or Quake, but precise enough to properly click heads in CS.

Anyway, that's all I am going to write for now (post getting too long). I would like the people that read all of this to PM me what they think about the following (please):
-Reaction time vs. sensitivity.
-Micro-movements not registering as muscle memory (hand movements too small to learn).
-Reaction time vs. Micro-movement threshold.
Thanks.

P.S. There is something about the 36cm/360 figure. Something about 1 degree per 1mm moved.


----------



## ncck

I use two sensitivities for fast paced and slower paced

For cs I always had a 190~ degree across my whole pad

For natural selection and quake I double it to 370~ degrees across my whole pad

There's zero transition for me between the two everything I do becomes double or half the other. Arena shooters need me to just hit big targets, cs needs me to control every part of my aim with no room for errors. In quake you can move around enough to fix aiming errors

Also spraying would you rather have less or more mouse pad to control a spray with? I prefer the middle sensor position? Whatever is on the Logitech g900 is optimal for my claw grip, if it's too forward I'll overshoot because I'm controlling the mouse from the rear and middle, my fingers arch and don't go to close to the front of a mouse plus wrist aiming is the least thing I do almost every shot is aimed with my whole arm


----------



## aLv1080

Best song of 2016


----------



## Maximillion

For me, a song is about precision...


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> For me, a song is about precision...


"...and that's why I use a Razer Kraken"


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> "...and that's why I use a Razer Kraken"


when the release date?


----------



## Maximillion

For me, a release date is about precision. This part, people don't see.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> For me, a release date is about precision. This part, people don't see.


LMAO! I am dying


----------



## qsxcv

>Bare with us
did they outsource the twitter pr to asians too?


----------



## trhead

Lets bare with Scream Kreygasm


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> For me, a release date is about precision. This part, people don't see.


ahaha


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy.


this is hella cringey.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> For me, a release date is about precision. This part, people don't see.


This part, it does not show up on Twitter. When I sit down to play, I am still waiting for my mouse to be available.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/722967541849583616


If anyone thinks they're really gonna be ready by the end of May then please pass the weed


----------



## Bucake

are you guys actually waiting?
well, i would too, if i thought they would nail the implementation. but ye...


----------



## dutC4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> are you guys actually waiting?
> well, i would too, if i thought they would nail the implementation. but ye...


I'm waiting for the first wave of buyers to talk about how ****ed up their mice are, but if they actually do a good job I'll be there. And by be there, I mean I'll be messaging finalmouse to see if I can pay a bit more to get one without scream's name on it.


----------



## Brigand253

I am waiting for this mouse but only because it's a 3360 equipped mouse that's basic and in a shape that actually looks usable to me. It could be ****-brown for all I care, shape and performance FAR outweigh aesthetics in my opinion.


----------



## Bucake

the 3360 is no guarantee of good sensor performance, check out the corsair m65 pro rgb thread..
besides, we already knew this was true based on plenty of failures. the 3310 and 3090 have seen enough bad implementations.
and why bring up aesthetics? the logitech mice are way ugly..

i'd be fairly surprised to see any 3360-wielding mouse perform just as good as logitech their 3366 mice tbh, but hopefully i'll get proven wrong
can't argue about the shape though. i think the g900 looks okay but the g502 and g303 are quite distinct. the shape of the scream mouse looks pretty nice


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> the 3360 is no guarantee of good sensor performance, check out the corsair m65 pro rgb thread..
> besides, we already knew this was true based on plenty of failures. the 3310 and 3090 have seen enough bad implementations.
> and why bring up aesthetics? the logitech mice are way ugly..
> 
> i'd be fairly surprised to see any 3360-wielding mouse perform just as good as logitech their 3366 mice tbh, but hopefully i'll get proven wrong
> can't argue about the shape though. i think the g900 looks okay but the g502 and g303 are quite distinct. the shape of the scream mouse looks pretty nice


I agree with you on all points. I only brought up aesthetics because of the response to color and the fact that there's a signature on the LMB. I barely notice my mice in terms of appearance, but to each their own I suppose.

I guess I'm just hopeful, the G303 is such a frustrating mouse to me. The sensor performance is the best I ever felt but the shape almost makes it seem like we're getting trolled by Logitech. ?


----------



## Bucake

i just hope the signature won't actually be felt?


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> the 3360 is no guarantee of good sensor performance, check out the corsair m65 pro rgb thread..
> besides, we already knew this was true based on plenty of failures. the 3310 and 3090 have seen enough bad implementations.
> and why bring up aesthetics? the logitech mice are way ugly..
> 
> i'd be fairly surprised to see any 3360-wielding mouse perform just as good as logitech their 3366 mice tbh, but hopefully i'll get proven wrong
> can't argue about the shape though. i think the g900 looks okay but the g502 and g303 are quite distinct. the shape of the scream mouse looks pretty nice


I looked at the m65 pro thread but some of the problems include http://www.overclock.net/t/1595799/corsair-m65-pro-rgb-heard-of-it/130#post_25085093 and doesn't corsair mice have high click latency?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> I looked at the m65 pro thread but some of the problems include http://www.overclock.net/t/1595799/corsair-m65-pro-rgb-heard-of-it/130#post_25085093 and doesn't corsair mice have high click latency?


Seems that there's an issue with clicks and polling so it fluctuates between 15ms and 40ms.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Seems that there's an issue with clicks and polling so it fluctuates between 15ms and 40ms.


Such a shame. I'm actually OK with the m65 shape and might be willing to deal with it weighing higher than 100 grams. Maybe if Corsair irons out the issues on a new revision...


----------



## kashim

there is some release date?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> there is some release date?


No there isn't, also it was silly for them to advertise a product that wasn't close to being released.. We're not a movie trailer community


----------



## rugi

Fun fact: Although Scream said he would switch to the S1 after the MLG Major, on stream for the PGL 1v1s he's still using the 2015 ergo


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Fun fact: Although Scream said he would switch to the S1 after the MLG Major, on stream for the PGL 1v1s he's still using the 2015 ergo


And he went out in groups of an aim map tournament. What a legendary aimer


----------



## espgodson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Fun fact: Although Scream said he would switch to the S1 after the MLG Major, on stream for the PGL 1v1s he's still using the 2015 ergo


and he just got knocked out by desi who was nearly knocked out by a girl . . . 1 taps


----------



## ncck

Give scream his death adder and goliathus and have him replay the tournament you'll see different results


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espgodson*
> 
> and he just got knocked out by desi who was nearly knocked out by a girl . . . 1 taps


What if the S1 that Scream was showing off on stream is just a dud physical replica of the mouse? Maybe Finalmouse doesn't even have actual operating ScreamOne's out of production?


----------



## qsxcv

i'm 98% sure that's right
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what he showed on stream is probably just a shell with 3310 internals.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espgodson*
> 
> and he just got knocked out by desi who was nearly knocked out by a girl . . . 1 taps


No surprise considering scream has said on stream that he sucks on 1v1.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> No surprise considering scream has said on stream that he sucks on 1v1.


He isn't that good 1 vs _. His style should be better for 1 vs 1 duels.


----------



## Maximillion

Didn't he lose to shox 1v1 lol


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Didn't he lose to shox 1v1 lol


Yeah if you are talking about the video posted earlier in this thread he lost, but it was close and shox is a pretty good player and aimer. I would actually say almost beating shox is pretty good for scream since shox is a better player both all around and as far as aim imo.


----------



## crovean

is anyone actually taking this serious? 1v1 is as close to cs as tetris is.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> shox is a pretty good player and aimer


You are underestimating him quite a bit.


----------



## PhaaTe

Zhey don't talk about my one taps from the highlights they don't see cuz' I'm out of the 1v1 tournament.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOLEEEEEEEEEEEEEED so hard.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> What if the S1 that Scream was showing off on stream is just a dud physical replica of the mouse? Maybe Finalmouse doesn't even have actual operating ScreamOne's out of production?


I feel the other way - ScreaM won't use ScreamOne (and they most likely do not have one full operating also, cuz they will throw them asap to get money asap)


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> You are underestimating him quite a bit.


Yeah, pretty good might be an understatement. I don't actually think he is top 10 anymore though, but he was at one point imo. He would still almost certainly make a list of top 20 if I made one and scream wouldn't though.


----------



## RDno1

Well, if there was ever a time for ScreaM to switch mice, it is now









To be fair, Scream won more rounds and maps vs desi in the 2 bo3s.

shox is actually my favorite to win the whole thing.


----------



## kashim

guys how are finalmouse left and right click vs g502?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Yeah if you are talking about the video posted earlier in this thread he lost, but it was close and shox is a pretty good player and aimer. I would actually say almost beating shox is pretty good for scream since shox is a better player both all around and as far as aim imo.


100% Agreed. Also this 1v1 tournament is being played on awful maps, and the ones that grab an m4a1-s when available and just crab-walk spray it, tend to win every time. They should just use normal aim_map. The m4a1-s has barely any recoil compared to other rifles.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> 100% Agreed. Also this 1v1 tournament is being played on awful maps, and the ones that grab an m4a1-s when available and just crab-walk spray it, tend to win every time. They should just use normal aim_map. The m4a1-s has barely any recoil compared to other rifles.


The awp map is definitely a weird one and the pistol one is a bit weird too, but the rifle map is pretty standard I thought. The ones I've seen/played the most for rifles are that and aim_redline.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The awp map is definitely a weird one and the pistol one is a bit weird too, but the rifle map is pretty standard I thought. The ones I've seen/played the most for rifles are that and aim_redline.


It was a different version of aim_map, I just think using the M4A1-s in a 1v1 at that distance, is kind of advantageous versus an AK-47. Regular aim_map with AK-47's & M4A4's would have been better in my opinion. They should have used awp_india, and aim_p2000.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Well, if there was ever a time for ScreaM to switch mice, it is now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, Scream won more rounds and maps vs desi in the 2 bo3s.
> 
> shox is actually my favorite to win the whole thing.


http://www.hltv.org/news/17638-shox-wins-htc-1v1-invitational


----------



## chr1spe

The format for that was so weird gsr for group of 8 then single elim? They should have just done double elim. Tbh shox did well, but idk that I think he should have won. michu actually lost the least games and he went 1-1 in bo3s with shox. Flamie also went 1-1 with him.

Edit: nvm, I thought shox went out of the initial group second or something. I can' find the brackets for the 2ndary groups. Still I think straight double elim or double elim after groups would have been better.


----------



## Scrimstar

ffs why did they even do mlg ads, when the release is closer to the next major


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> ffs why did they even do mlg ads, when the release is closer to the next major


Maybe because the people running FinalMouse are located in the US and Scream happened to be going to the US for the MLG event.


----------



## Dergless

Can we get an update on the Scream One Jude?


----------



## Poodle

Is there some bigger problem behind these delays that has something to do with switches? Rival 700, EC-series and Final mice all are delayed.


----------



## kashim

zowie make a 3360 mouse?or just a rebrand benq?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> zowie make a 3360 mouse?or just a rebrand benq?


Rebrand, mostly.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Is there some bigger problem behind these delays that has something to do with switches? Rival 700, EC-series and Final mice all are delayed.


EC series isn't using the same sensor or switches as the other 2 and did SS ever actually announce a release for the Rival 700? Anyway apparently you can order or preorder the Rival 700 currently. Someone posted a link in that thread recently.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> EC series isn't using the same sensor or switches as the other 2 and did SS ever actually announce a release for the Rival 700? Anyway apparently you can order or preorder the Rival 700 currently. Someone posted a link in that thread recently.


It was to be last week for the dropping which was a push back from march 29th. Now it's apparently the first week of may-2nd week max it seems.

Fry's in the Us gets it around may 7th or 8th as well. No clue with Amazon.


----------



## Dergless

I wonder if the reason why the Rival 700 and Scream One are being delayed is because of problems getting enough sensors from Pixart?


----------



## qsxcv

no otherwise corsair wouldn't have had their m65pro on amazon for like a month now


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no otherwise corsair wouldn't have had their m65pro on amazon for like a month now


Was there actually a problem with the firmware/srom on that mouse other than click delay though or were all the problems you were having just caused by improper grounding?


----------



## qsxcv

the srom is exactly what pixart gives them
firmware-wise, didn't really look into it much. i suppose it's decent... there's no mcu smoothing and no dropped reports at 1000hz, when the mouse is working that is.
kind of hard to test out a mouse when using it causes all your usb devices to lock up for ~5 seconds every half minute. and i'm fairly sure that's related to the metal shell passing static.


----------



## chr1spe

So was it still the same motion response time as logitech or was it ~1ms faster since it seems like the logitech stuff delays things 1 report or at least has delay proportional to the report time?


----------



## qsxcv

see the last line


----------



## Dergless

Just saw on twitter someone emailed customer support about the release date, they said it's "tentative" time frame is late June...


----------



## Maximillion

I'm dying


----------



## qsxcv

wow!
no one must have saw that coming!!!


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> ffs why did they even do mlg ads, when the release is closer to the next major


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe because the people running FinalMouse are located in the US and Scream happened to be going to the US for the MLG event.


dont defend that stupid marketing move. waste of money, to bring a bad image

at least this mouse will be easy to buy


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> dont defend that stupid marketing move. waste of money, to bring a bad image
> 
> at least this mouse will be easy to buy


What are you talking about? Defending!?

They probably filmed the advert in the US because Scream was there and they released it at MLG because it was convenient for them. Plus, it was likely cheaper to advertise with MLG than another company. You forget that that event had a ridiculous amount of viewers -- any company would love to have such a reach.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> dont defend that stupid marketing move. waste of money, to bring a bad image
> 
> at least this mouse will be easy to buy


"Easy to buy"

Yeah, let me just spend $80 on another mediocre FinalStraw product.


----------



## kashim

guys fm click latency is good as g502 or worst?have better feeling?i m cs go player and wanna trade my heavy g502 for a light killer machine mouse







...the weight is a problem for me because when i need to turn fast i can t stop it accurated,and i don t like mouse skate...left is bigget then right and don t have the same stopping accuracy imho


----------



## Bucake

gonna have to wait until at least june, kashim:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dergless*
> 
> Just saw on twitter someone emailed customer support about the release date, they said it's "tentative" time frame is late June...


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys fm click latency is good as g502 or worst?have better feeling?i m cs go player and wanna trade my heavy g502 for a light killer machine mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the weight is a problem for me because when i need to turn fast i can t stop it accurated,and i don t like mouse skate...left is bigget then right and don t have the same stopping accuracy imho


Nobody yet knows if its going to be good or bad.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Nobody yet knows if its going to be good or bad.


2016 ergo click are better?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> 2016 ergo click are better?


We can't know as it is not released.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys fm click latency is good as g502 or worst?have better feeling?i m cs go player and wanna trade my heavy g502 for a light killer machine mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the weight is a problem for me because when i need to turn fast i can t stop it accurated,and i don t like mouse skate...left is bigget then right and don t have the same stopping accuracy imho


your best bet is the g900 or g303

nothing comes close to logitechs' speed


----------



## qsxcv

actually new logitech (402/502/302/303/900) is 3-4ms slower than old logitech.

still better than most mice though


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually new logitech (402/502/302/303/900) is 3-4ms slower than old logitech.
> 
> still better than most mice though


hi man ty for the reply,my problem is the mouse skate,and weight of g502....need lightest mouse for low sense....g303 have a worst shell of history...i m looking for screamone,because same sensor but with light weight and better mouse skate


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> hi man ty for the reply,my problem is the mouse skate,and weight of g502....need lightest mouse for low sense....g303 have a worst shell of history...i m looking for screamone,because same sensor but with light weight and better mouse skate


Get a G100S to tie you over if you need a mouse that badly. It has a removable weight if you open it up but it's pretty light even with it. It can malfunction every so often but not enough to overly concern me.

I used a G303 for a few monthes and I can't say the sensor is so amazing I can't live without it, I still flickshot more than adequately. Nevertheless, I still /want/ a 3366 since it IS objectively better than anything else. Personally, button latency is much more of a concern to me.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Get a G100S to tie you over if you need a mouse that badly. It has a removable weight if you open it up but it's pretty light even with it. It can malfunction every so often but not enough to overly concern me.
> 
> I used a G303 for a few monthes and I can't say the sensor is so amazing I can't live without it, I still flickshot more than adequately. Nevertheless, I still /want/ a 3366 since it IS objectively better than anything else. Personally, button latency is much more of a concern to me.


i need light mouse with "perfect sensor",nice click and good speed tracking


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i need light mouse with "perfect sensor",nice click and good speed tracking


G303


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually new logitech (402/502/302/303/900) is 3-4ms slower than old logitech.


your earlier test results showed that 3366 is very close to mlt04, does that mean older logitech (do you mean 2020 mice?) have lower latency than mlt04?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> your earlier test results showed that 3366 is very close to mlt04, does that mean older logitech (do you mean 2020 mice?) have lower latency than mlt04?


I believe he is referring to click latency/debounce time.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> your earlier test results showed that 3366 is very close to mlt04, does that mean older logitech (do you mean 2020 mice?) have lower latency than mlt04?


I think they were talking about click latency not motion latency.


----------



## Bucake

derp :-/
thanks for clearing it up


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> G303


don t like diamond shape :S...this is the reason because i ll wait screamone


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I believe he is referring to click latency/debounce time.


yes click latency


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> yes click latency


The click latency thing is so tired at this point. If people investigated the backwards interpolation and otherwise latency issues associated with game netcode, they would realize this is not even an issue. You are talking about thousandths of seconds imperceptible to the human eye, let alone the game engine, let alone the game engines netcode.

Click latency....

Zowie cut theirs within a margin of Logitech's top end contender, right? It's the closest thing on the market that is equivocable to the ONE mouse logitech makes that has almost no latency? And they are still getting bugged about it?

If you think you know the difference between 3ms or 7ms response...you are a freaking savant. Neither the game engine or the netcode is equipped to know the difference, so how YOU do is somehow a miracle.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> The click latency thing is so tired at this point. If people investigated the backwards interpolation and otherwise latency issues associated with game netcode, they would realize this is not even an issue. You are talking about thousandths of seconds imperceptible to the human eye, let alone the game engine, let alone the game engines netcode.
> 
> Click latency....
> 
> Zowie cut theirs within a margin of Logitech's top end contender, right? It's the closest thing on the market that is equivocable to the ONE mouse logitech makes that has almost no latency? And they are still getting bugged about it?
> 
> If you think you know the difference between 3ms or 7ms response...you are a freaking savant. Neither the game engine or the netcode is equipped to know the difference, so how YOU do is somehow a miracle.


You You you.... I like you.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> The click latency thing is so tired at this point. If people investigated the backwards interpolation and otherwise latency issues associated with game netcode, they would realize this is not even an issue. You are talking about thousandths of seconds imperceptible to the human eye, let alone the game engine, let alone the game engines netcode.
> 
> Click latency....
> 
> Zowie cut theirs within a margin of Logitech's top end contender, right? It's the closest thing on the market that is equivocable to the ONE mouse logitech makes that has almost no latency? And they are still getting bugged about it?
> 
> If you think you know the difference between 3ms or 7ms response...you are a freaking savant. Neither the game engine or the netcode is equipped to know the difference, so how YOU do is somehow a miracle.


Nobody claimed it was a big deal. Someone just asked a question and someone answered it.

Still, you don't get the big picture. You don't understand the point of the whole discussion here, I'm sorry to say, when you write stuff like that... While Zowie 3310 mice are in the okay to good range with click latency, you generally should have as low cumulative latency as possible. Some types of latencies are way more perceivable than others.

It's about excellence. Also it's not so much about click delay as it is about motion delay.


----------



## qsxcv

...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)

it's not a big deal but it's something that can easily be perfected


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)
> 
> it's not a big deal but it's something that can easily be perfected


That's not a mouse issue at that point...

Edit: I understand you are making fun....but...3ms and 7ms...you argued this earlier. I dunno why this exists...but it's pretty freakin' stupid to argue about, right?


----------



## qsxcv

what's not a what issue?


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)
> 
> it's not a big deal but it's something that can easily be perfected


This is the stupidest thing you have ever said, I feel like this a trap of some sort. qsxvc explain yourself...

I feel like you are agree that 3-7ms not mattering in a netcode that has 33 or 66 or otherwise backwards-forwards negotation, but you don't speak netcode?


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually new logitech (402/502/302/303/900) is 3-4ms slower than old logitech.
> 
> still better than most mice though


400s/500s or g9x is really faster? never heard of that.

either way those arent that much lighter


----------



## Vantavia

1 frame at 144hz/fps is 6.9ms. I wouldn't say that 5ms is anything to snub off without good reason. I can detect 5ms additional input lag, so 5ms is still easily quantifiable by some at least some people.

The closer to 1ms click latency is, the higher the chance of the input being registered in the same/following frame. This won't effect most shots but it will surely help with shots that are near the edge of player models. I'm not mentioning or factoring games/game engines as hit boxes can trail in some games and this would mitigate some of the latency.

It should be common knowledge at this point that overall input lag wants to be around 1ms for movement and clicks and display output /ideally/.

https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=74

even at 10ms you can clearly see a delay and most "good" setups hover around 15-30ms, mostly depending on the game engine/frametimes.

http://esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-tests-ql-csgo/


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> This is the stupidest thing you have ever said, I feel like this a trap of some sort. qsxvc explain yourself...
> 
> I feel like you are agree that 3-7ms not mattering in a netcode that has 33 or 66 or otherwise backwards-forwards negotation, but you don't speak netcode?


???i'm confused.
you argue that people should stop discussing click latency because netcode effects are more significant. i'm pointing out that
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)


hence your argument doesn't really make sense.

then i say
Quote:


> it's not a big deal but it's something that can easily be perfected


by "it", i'm referring to click latencies not the netcode


----------



## czerro

qsxcv, you are really brilliant. You bring alot of technical data and intelligent conversation to the table.

I never said people should stop discussing it, or caring about it. Largely, people don't understand what you are saying. They just see numbers and aren't capable of correctly parsing them.

3ms vs 7ms.

I'm just putting your numbers in perspective.

Edit: and no, that's not how netcode works. That's simply the speed of processed updates being sent to the server to be reprocessed. You are well behind that, even in the way the physics engine is interpolating your actions locally. Let alone, in a best case scenario, with zero latency, how the server interprets and verifies your information on the other end. Yet, I don't understand your argument, even if we accept that your tick-rate argument has merit...there is still no difference between latencies below 7.8ms. Again, your conception is not accurate to how engines and netcode works, but if I meet you half-way and accept your argument...you are arguing it doesn't matter...


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> Yet, I don't understand your argument, even if we accept that your tick-rate argument has merit...there is still no difference between latencies below 7.8ms. Again, your conception is not accurate to how engines and netcode works, but if I meet you half-way and accept your argument...you are arguing it doesn't matter...


That isn't how latency works. It stacks and then anything that has an update rate causes variance in total latency and even if something is only being updated every 7.8ms you still want the rest of the chain to be as low latency as possible. Things will average out, but 1ms difference can cause a difference of a tick and then add 7.8ms in that case. Adding 4ms of latency would mean on average your input is being processed 1 tick later 1/2 the time.


----------



## qsxcv

sorry too lazy to quote properly

>I never said people should stop discussing it, or caring about it.
well i must have understood you wrongly then, because that's how i interpreted this:
>The click latency thing is so tired at this point. If people investigated the backwards interpolation and otherwise latency issues associated with game netcode, they would realize this is not even an issue.

>Again, your conception is not accurate to how engines and netcode works
all i said is that the order of magnitude of click latencies is the same as that of timing imperfections related to netcode, which are necessarily governed by the tickrate. therefore, if one of them is sufficiently significant to warrant our concern, it makes no sense to suppose that the other is not.

>there is still no difference between latencies below 7.8ms
that's like saying getting fps greater than 144 doesn't matter on a 144hz monitor. latency is always cumulative


----------



## Vantavia

Could we get back to the topic of screaming in Jude's ear until they release the scream one? Frankly their release date seems a bit "Scream two" to say the least.


----------



## Dergless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Could we get back to the topic of screaming in Jude's ear until they release the scream one? Frankly their release date seems a bit "Scream two" to say the least.


I couldn't agree more, at least give us an update Jude so we know whats going on instead of keeping us in the dark like this.


----------



## a_ak57

To be fair, any update he'd give you wouldn't actually be a real update unless the mice are presently being shipped to amazon/wherever. Inaccurate predictions are why people are antsy right now to begin with, after all. Until things are legitimately happening, all he can do is say Soon™.


----------



## Oeshon

When is this mouse supposed to come out?

Did Finalmouse hire bst, what's going on?


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I can detect 5ms additional input lag,


I'm curious about the people that make these claims. What is your average reaction time on human benchmark?


----------



## chr1spe

I'm not sure about click latency, but there is a program for blind testing motion input. I didn't really push it to see how low I could tell the difference, but the first time i I tried I got 24/25 at 15ms so I could probably still tell the difference lower than that. My reaction time is around 170ms but detecting lag is much different from reaction time.


----------



## ralloff

I'm just praying that the delays are a result of them switching manufacturing process for the sake of quality control. If the delay means we actually get a more reliable product, that would be great. FM has to on some level be concerned with their current image of sketchy quality; especially after Tournament Pro release. Maybe this is a sign of action.

That's pretty hopeful though, since FM clearly has no real intention of creating the best product. Evidence for that being braided cable, always on LED, no software/ additional DPI steps, miss marketing.

I can dream at least.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ralloff*
> 
> I'm just praying that the delays are a result of them switching manufacturing process for the sake of quality control. If the delay means we actually get a more reliable product, that would be great. FM has to on some level be concerned with their current image of sketchy quality; especially after Tournament Pro release. Maybe this is a sign of action.
> 
> That's pretty hopeful though, since FM clearly has no real intention of creating the best product. Evidence for that being braided cable, always on LED, no software/ additional DPI steps, miss marketing.
> 
> I can dream at least.


I always figured a delay was in the consumer's best interest since, unlike software or games which can at the very least be patched, hardware is very costly to return or fix.


----------



## woll3

I rather think that the delay has something to do with Feenix.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually new logitech (402/502/302/303/900) is 3-4ms slower than old logitech.
> 
> still better than most mice though


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)
> 
> it's not a big deal but it's something that can easily be perfected


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> This is the stupidest thing you have ever said, I feel like this a trap of some sort. qsxvc explain yourself...
> 
> I feel like you are agree that 3-7ms not mattering in a netcode that has 33 or 66 or otherwise backwards-forwards negotation, but you don't speak netcode?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9botHdyAB8&t=4m12s


----------



## plath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> When is this mouse supposed to come out?
> 
> Did Finalmouse hire bst, what's going on?


Logitech released the G900 and Jude had a heart attack.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> I rather think that the delay has something to do with Feenix.


Where's the money there though? When did that branding ever make more money?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Where's the money there though? When did that branding ever make more money?


That is irrelevant without common sense, those guys would pee twice on the same electric fence.

Also you have to support the proud sponsors of OCN, lol.:


----------



## b0z0

I cant even get a replacement for my finalmouse due to them being out of stock on everything lol...


----------



## rugi

From February to late June. Yikes


----------



## speedyeggtart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> From February to late June. Yikes


Maybe never now unless Scream is no longer in G2 eSports - they just announced a partnership with Razer so it would be a conflict of interest (or conflict of sponsors) unless the agreement allows for individual sponsorships:

http://www.g2esports.com/g2-esports-announces-razer-partnership/


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Finalmouse One*


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> ...actually click latencies are comparable to the temporal granularity of csgo's netcode (128tick=7.8ms)


The 2 latencies are additive, they don't cut into each other


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedyeggtart*
> 
> Maybe never now unless Scream is no longer in G2 eSports - they just announced a partnership with Razer so it would be a conflict of interest (or conflict of sponsors) unless the agreement allows for individual sponsorships:
> 
> http://www.g2esports.com/g2-esports-announces-razer-partnership/


Razer seems to be far more lenient with teams they sponsor unlike Logitech, at least judging by CS:GO teams such as CLG & Team Liquid, who use other brands for mice & mousepads even. I'm still surprised that people who used a DeathAdder for years, can transition to the FinalMouse 2015/2016 Ergonomic without any issues, it's far too small for my liking coming from a DeathAdder.


----------



## Bucake

that would be hilarious. scream not being able to use the mouse himself because he's gotta stick with razer. i kinda hope that's gonna be the case.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I'm curious about the people that make these claims. What is your average reaction time on human benchmark?


Human benchmark != the ability to notice input lag, sorry man. Human benchmark is how quickly you can react to something, it's not like feeling where you can feel something is off with your mouse. I can detect as low as 15ms of latency (added onto the existing input latency, of course.) with InputLag_AB. 25/25. That was with a 5ms GTG 120Hz 2233RZ even, so I'd probably detect even lower now.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Razer seems to be far more lenient with teams they sponsor unlike Logitech, at least judging by CS:GO teams such as CLG & Team Liquid, who use other brands for mice & mousepads even. I'm still surprised that people who used a DeathAdder for years, can transition to the FinalMouse 2015/2016 Ergonomic without any issues, it's far too small for my liking coming from a DeathAdder.


From what I've seen they aren't that lenient though for some reason recently Hiko switched to a Zowie ZA. I know s1mple was using something else before team liquid and was having a hard time adjusting to the DA so I think they at least pressured him to use a razer. Other than Hiko who afaik recently switched I'm pretty sure all of CLG and the rest of TL use razer.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Human benchmark != the ability to notice input lag, sorry man. Human benchmark is how quickly you can react to something, it's not like feeling where you can feel something is off with your mouse. I can detect as low as 15ms of latency (added onto the existing input latency, of course.) with InputLag_AB. 25/25. That was with a 5ms GTG 120Hz 2233RZ even, so I'd probably detect even lower now.


K, so ummmmm and what do YOU score on human benchmark? I see numbers, not feelings, sorry man. No seriously, I'm curious what you "sensitive" people score. No pissing contest intended, but genuinely curious in correlations.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> From what I've seen they aren't that lenient though for some reason recently Hiko switched to a Zowie ZA. I know s1mple was using something else before team liquid and was having a hard time adjusting to the DA so I think they at least pressured him to use a razer. Other than Hiko who afaik recently switched I'm pretty sure all of CLG and the rest of TL use razer.


*Liquid*: nitr0 & Elige use a Deathadder; koosta used a G400(s), than the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo, adreN uses EC1-A/EC2-A, and Hiko uses a ZA11 I think.

*CLG*: tarik uses a G100 & hazed uses a Sensei I think.

I don't understand the situation with s1mple when he arrived in the U.S & they forced him to use a DeathAdder and some tiny Team Liquid Razer mousepad. Hiko, adreN, tarik, & hazed (not sure about koosta), all list their current mouse as Razer DeathAdder on their Twitch page, & HLTV.org page (if their gear is listed).

I thought s1mple played better with a DeathAdder anyway, he has pretty long fingers and they hung over the front of his SteelSeries Sensei. (pic of s1mple using DeathAdder Chroma)

I find it odd that on the HLTV.org Event Galleries, you never see a photo of ScreaM's mouse









CS:GO Pro Players Setup Spreadsheet, this is usually accurate and up to date.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> K, so ummmmm and what do YOU score on human benchmark? I see numbers, not feelings, sorry man. No seriously, I'm curious what you "sensitive" people score. No pissing contest intended, but genuinely curious in correlations.


How far can you hop on one leg? I'm curious how far you unsensitive people can get, genuinely curious of the correlations









Seriously though, the ability to detect differences in smoothness and latency is probably not strongly related to the reaction time to a stimuli - these are quite different things.

For actual numbers my auditory reaction time is ~130-140ms, visual about 170-190 depending on alertness and fatigue. I take a while to accurately judge +5ms but find +10ms quite easy.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Seriously though, the ability to detect differences in smoothness and latency is probably not strongly related to the reaction time to a stimuli - these are quite different things.


Not only that but Human Benchmark is far from what is going on ingame, i shoot human(like) targets, not green boxes.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Stop caring about HMB. The only thing that makes you be able to detect microscopic difference is a paranoia.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> *Liquid*: nitr0 & Elige use a Deathadder; koosta used a G400(s), than the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo, adreN uses EC1-A/EC2-A, and Hiko uses a ZA11 I think.
> 
> *CLG*: tarik uses a G100 & hazed uses a Sensei I think.
> 
> I don't understand the situation with s1mple when he arrived in the U.S & they forced him to use a DeathAdder and some tiny Team Liquid Razer mousepad. Hiko, adreN, tarik, & hazed (not sure about koosta), all list their current mouse as Razer DeathAdder on their Twitch page, & HLTV.org page (if their gear is listed).
> 
> I thought s1mple played better with a DeathAdder anyway, he has pretty long fingers and they hung over the front of his SteelSeries Sensei. (pic of s1mple using DeathAdder Chroma)
> 
> I find it odd that on the HLTV.org Event Galleries, you never see a photo of ScreaM's mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CS:GO Pro Players Setup Spreadsheet, this is usually accurate and up to date.


i think youre very wrong:bike:

tarik uses g400s (always at the major idk WHY he streams with DA) and hiko cant use za11, its too big, he was using za13

koosta has been terrible with the DA.

s1mple was using some weird asus mouse, he was sick with it, liquid kinda does force you to use the DA, s1mple was terrible for first couple months. idr if he used anything between then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyMo1tXPIw


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> i think youre very wrong:bike:
> 
> tarik uses g400s (always at the major idk WHY he streams with DA) and hiko cant use za11, its too big, he was using za13
> 
> koosta has been terrible with the DA.
> 
> s1mple was using some weird asus mouse, he was sick with it, liquid kinda does force you to use the DA, s1mple was terrible for first couple months. idr if he used anything between then
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyMo1tXPIw


s1mple is using the zowie za11 now


----------



## Poodle

In my opinion Stewie2K had better aim than S1mple when thay did 1v1 aim map. Even tho Stewie lost. S1mple had better positioning but Stewie made sick shots with G303.


----------



## speedyeggtart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Razer seems to be far more lenient with teams they sponsor unlike Logitech, at least judging by CS:GO teams such as CLG & Team Liquid, who use other brands for mice & mousepads even. I'm still surprised that people who used a DeathAdder for years, can transition to the FinalMouse 2015/2016 Ergonomic without any issues, it's far too small for my liking coming from a DeathAdder.


They may allow you to use other gear (not sure) - but for sure they won't let you represent or endorse a competing brand/gear.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Their classic ergo stock is stuck in customs and they hope to have it in less than two weeks.

Not sure what that means for the S1.


----------



## Bucake

67 pages, no release
WR?


----------



## Nilizum

K so you guys are saying that someone that has really fast reaction times, able to detect a change in stimuli so fast, has nothing to do with how fast they can detect (as Zenith says) paranoiac microscopic differences?

lmao.

So far 3 people dismissed the idea of reaction time vs "latency sensibility", but never alluded to or answered why.

Sure, I can detect a difference from an already LOW latency latency source, AT 5ms vs something AT 10-15 ms or of course the ~30ms range becomes obvious, but some people here are just saying they can detect that 5 ms OF latency regardless of listing the source they're comparing it to, claiming that they have some weird natural paranoia, *ahem* ability to detect that. So to save the special superhuman guys from looking like egotistical ****as, I thought I'd try to find a correlation, but for some reason turns into a joke.

I mean, something like, "Because mouse movement is continuous with dynamically varying directional changes, input latency in that can be ascertained." That's probably as good as it gets, but I didn't even hear one squabble of that. And it seems some people, again, are just blindly throwing out that a person's innate fast response time CAN allow them to detect small changes better, the same types of people have a faster sense of perception.

I like things like qsxcv advocates, like the bump test which actually shows numbers that can back up whatever minuscule feeling of input latency some time lord feels.

There are factors like click latency that can distort one's feel of sensor latency, for example a very fast flick shot on:
a. high click latency and higher sensor latency
b. low click latency and higher sensor latency

Where the sensor latency from A and B are the same, but A might seem faster because the click delay allows the delay to be compensated for. So with factors like these, wot the hell really is your ability m8?

idkman, i guess what i'm trying to say is, let's not turn into that r0ach guy.

---

To the guy that scored 170 ms on peak average (i hope that's your peak average and not your one time fastest score), that's actually pretty fast.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> *Liquid*: nitr0 & Elige use a Deathadder; koosta used a G400(s), than the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo, adreN uses EC1-A/EC2-A, and Hiko uses a ZA11 I think.
> 
> *CLG*: tarik uses a G100 & hazed uses a Sensei I think.
> 
> I don't understand the situation with s1mple when he arrived in the U.S & they forced him to use a DeathAdder and some tiny Team Liquid Razer mousepad. Hiko, adreN, tarik, & hazed (not sure about koosta), all list their current mouse as Razer DeathAdder on their Twitch page, & HLTV.org page (if their gear is listed).
> 
> I thought s1mple played better with a DeathAdder anyway, he has pretty long fingers and they hung over the front of his SteelSeries Sensei. (pic of s1mple using DeathAdder Chroma)
> 
> I find it odd that on the HLTV.org Event Galleries, you never see a photo of ScreaM's mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CS:GO Pro Players Setup Spreadsheet, this is usually accurate and up to date.


That spread sheet has a lot of inaccuracies and has been incorrect for extremely big name players for up to 6 months at a time. For example it always said get_right was using an ec1 afaik and while that is correct now it said that all the way from summer 2015 until now I'm fairly certain and he only used a zowie for one tournament in summer 2015 and then use a g402 and g303 for well over 6 months with that spread sheet being wrong. I've found liquipedia to be more accurate generally. I've never seen tarik use anything other than a DA for the past 9 months at least. When did he switch? Also that spreadsheet and twitch says g400s, you say g100, and liquipedia, tarik.gg, and what I've seen say DA so I really don't know what he is using. Do you have a recent picture or something? Maybe they just loosened up their policies. I wouldn't really use what koosta and adren use as an example since they just joined/rejoined the team. Adren is/was sponsored by FM I'm pretty sure.

Edit: Also I like liquipedia more because if I see something that is wrong I can correct it and I can also check the history.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> K so you guys are saying that someone that has really fast reaction times, able to detect a change in stimuli so fast, has nothing to do with how fast they can detect (as Zenith says) paranoiac microscopic differences?
> 
> lmao.
> 
> So far 3 people dismissed the idea of reaction time vs "latency sensibility", but never alluded to or answered why.
> 
> Sure, I can detect a difference from an already LOW latency latency source, AT 5ms vs something AT 10-15 ms or of course the ~30ms range becomes obvious, but some people here are just saying they can detect that 5 ms OF latency regardless of listing the source they're comparing it to, claiming that they have some weird natural paranoia, *ahem* ability to detect that. So to save the special superhuman guys from looking like egotistical ****as, I thought I'd try to find a correlation, but for some reason turns into a joke.
> 
> I mean, something like, "Because mouse movement is continuous with dynamically varying directional changes, input latency in that can be ascertained." That's probably as good as it gets, but I didn't even hear one squabble of that. And it seems some people, again, are just blindly throwing out that a person's innate fast response time CAN allow them to detect small changes better, the same types of people have a faster sense of perception.
> 
> I like things like qsxcv advocates, like the bump test which actually shows numbers that can back up whatever minuscule feeling of input latency some time lord feels.
> 
> There are factors like click latency that can distort one's feel of sensor latency, for example a very fast flick shot on:
> a. high click latency and higher sensor latency
> b. low click latency and higher sensor latency
> 
> Where the sensor latency from A and B are the same, but A might seem faster because the click delay allows the delay to be compensated for. So with factors like these, wot the hell really is your ability m8?
> 
> idkman, i guess what i'm trying to say is, let's not turn into that r0ach guy.
> 
> ---
> 
> To the guy that scored 170 ms on peak average (i hope that's your peak average and not your one time fastest score), that's actually pretty fast.


I kind of space out sometimes and get bad scores in the 190s, but normally yes that is the peak average. Most of my scores are 165-175ms and then 1 in 10 or so is significantly higher around 190-210ms. There is a program to blind test your sensitivity to motion latency though so that is where I get that I can detect 15ms of motion latency quite easily. Click latency would probably be harder to detect. I just did the reaction test and thought you could get a direct link some how, but 6 trials gave me 175.0ms, but there was one trial that was 188ms because I spaced a bit and the others averaged 172.4ms min was 164ms I think.


----------



## qsxcv

i get <160ms on humanbenchmark but i cannot easily distinguish 15ms motion latency in my ab test. so there's that








though i think i can still feel the effects of 8ms or so, but fatigue sets in too quickly for me in blind testing.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Stop caring about HMB. The only thing that makes you be able to detect microscopic difference is a paranoia.


Humans are extremely sensitive to small changes, especially in patterns

if you have a program to play a sound 10x per second and you have it set up like this:

one button plays sound exactly every 100ms, 10 times

second button plays sound every 95-105ms, averaging 10x per second

you can solidly tell the difference between those if you have a good sense of rhythm.

It's the same for visual, if you're achieving 100fps via perfectly even (every 10ms) vs uneven (~8-12ms) frames with a random distribution to get the same 100 frames per second, it's very visible that the solid-10ms FPS is smoother.

Detecting a 15ms vs 20ms or even 25ms input lag isn't that easy, but it's most obvious when you're exposed to the constant change in input lag, rather than just the input lag amount.

Fortunately paranoia has no effect on blind tests


----------



## wareya

the real problem with human benchmark is it runs in a browser


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> the real problem with human benchmark is it runs in a browser


I agree, that test in particular is quite bad. You'll probably get more consistent and a bit lower results with a better test.


----------



## RDno1

Sooo did anybody see Scream's mouse during the ESL Pro League Finals?


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Disappointmentmouse.


----------



## Maximillion

So, they make an announcement...for an upcoming announcement. Textbook stalling.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We will be making an announcement on new product releases tomorrow. Everyones been waiting for a while but we promise u wont be disappointed
> 
> - Finalmouse (@finalmouse)
> 
> 
> 
> May 12, 2016
Click to expand...

Announcing the Scream Two. Calling it now


----------



## stussy6678

Probably just a mousepad.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We will be making an announcement on new product releases tomorrow. Everyones been waiting for a while but we promise u wont be disappointed
> 
> - Finalmouse (@finalmouse)
> 
> 
> 
> May 12, 2016
Click to expand...

lol, just look at that sentence.


----------



## daunow

u wont be disappointed


----------



## coldc0ffee

Oh boy. Probably just announcing the release of a future announcement about how they are experiencing delays.


----------



## rugi

Keep in mind when they were initially supposed to announce the features and release date of the S1, their twitter announcement itself was 3-4 days late. There might not even be an announcement at all tomorrow.


----------



## Bucake

were glad to anounce that next weak we anounce the next annonce ment that everyons been waiting for
u wont be dispoint

plz stay tune
-announcementmouse


----------



## Dergless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stussy6678*
> 
> Probably just a mousepad.


^^This


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> were glad to anounce that next weak we anounce the next annonce ment that everyons been waiting for
> u wont be dispoint
> 
> plz stay tune
> -announcementmouse


isowwy. i type out annonment on my tap phone you dont needd to be mean aboot it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SAM-8888 using Tapatalk 6.16H


----------



## coldc0ffee

we r pleezed 2 annunce that we r expeerencing deelays of the annuncemint of screemz 1 offishal micepod. stay tooned 2 the tweeter 4 further annuncemint of mice stuff frum le Finalmice! thanx 4 beeing so pashent cuz we wanna maek shure that mice r bestest with deezine n perfurmince.

Trooly urs
-deelaymices


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> So, they make an announcement...for an upcoming announcement. Textbook stalling.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Bonus review by dude that needs to stop smoking meth immediately.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Bonus review by dude that needs to stop smoking meth immediately.


But...

those eyelashes


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## tunelover

at the end: "*final* note"














gj finalmouse


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Scream One Engineering:
> 
> While many know the scream one will come standard with 1ms polling, we also took a long time perfecting the button polling. Specifically the debounce code.
> 
> We are happy to have achieved 1ms button polling with no debounce count on press with our debounce logic. Initially we ran into some issues with simultaneous button logic, buggy delays, etc&#8230; but our engineers didn't stop until the click logic was optimized.
> 
> In lab tests we were able to consistently outperform the classic ergo (already an extremely low click latency mouse). What this means for the end user is that the Scream One is going to register clicks faster than any esports mouse you put it up against.
> 
> Another aspect of polling that took up some unforeseen time was the mousewheel polling. We came to realize that wheel polling in conjunction with the encoder used had a huge impact on a gamers ability to bunny hop in CS:GO. It's no surprise then that this took a lot of ingame testing with our pros to get the encoder logic just right.
> 
> The largest chunk of engineering time with respect to the Scream One was due to us wanting to perfect the all new 3360 sensor. The final results have been remarkable. There is a readable register for surface quality on the 3360 so our engineers were able to test exactly how well our implementation was performing. Initially we were only getting average results&#8230;. but with a change to the sensor current resistor we got the results to near perfect!!
> 
> Lastly there were some minor features we implemented:
> 
> There is a new glitch detection on the DPI button. So what this means is that when the sensor is tracking (the mouse is being moved) the dpi can not be changed&#8230;. It can only be changed when the mouse is still&#8230;.
> 
> Also we added the ability to do complete firmware overhauls on the field with a handy little switch on the pcb.
> 
> Keep in mind the scream one will share the same improvements from the tournament pro as well, including click rattle reduction and light improvements. In fact the scream one utilizes SMT led's to further reduce weight and led intensity.
> 
> All previous design and tooling improvements we mentioned in the last post still are happening as well: lighter weight, daughter pcb for side switches, etc&#8230;


hahahaha


----------



## Cloudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is! Release dates, information, Scream One technology/engineering, and more ! https://t.co/LPO66YF0j4
> 
> - Finalmouse (@finalmouse)
> 
> 
> 
> 13 May 2016
> 
> TL;DR
> 2016 Classic Ergo date: 20 May.
> 2016 Tournament Pro date: 15 June.
> Scream One: 15 June early press release. 10 July for public release.
> 
> They talked about 3360 in Scream One. No mention of what will be in 2016 Classic Ergo and Tournament Pro.
Click to expand...

Can't say for the ergo, but this is what they told me in an email a few weeks ago.
Quote:


> We are in the process of changing the manufacturing process behind our products to improve quality control. Therefore we do not expect availability for the Classic Ergo for roughly 2 weeks. As for the Tournament Pro, we will be upgrading this model directly to the Scream1. The shell remains the same however there will be updated clicker molding, improved click latency, and utilization of the 3360 sensor up from the 3310. We now have a tentative time frame of late June however this is solely tentative at this time. We greatly appreciate your patience in the matter as we work to perfect the new updated Finalmice!


----------



## muso

Can't wait for the reviews, especially on click latency. Going to help decide on this or a g900


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Initially we were only getting average results&#8230;. but with a change to the sensor current resistor we got the results to near perfect!!


wth is a sensor current resistor?

i'm fairly convinced he's just talking out of his ass








Quote:


> There is a new glitch detection on the DPI button. So what this means is that when the sensor is tracking (the mouse is being moved) the dpi can not be changed&#8230;. It can only be changed when the mouse is still&#8230;.


meh.. maybe decent idea but i don't think anyone would accidentally press the dpi button anyway
Quote:


> Also we added the ability to do complete firmware overhauls on the field with a handy little switch on the pcb.


..... so we'd need to open the mouse to upgrade firmware?
...
...
...
Quote:


> Another aspect of polling that took up some unforeseen time was the mousewheel polling. We came to realize that wheel polling in conjunction with the encoder used had a huge impact on a gamers ability to bunny hop in CS:GO. It's no surprise then that this took a lot of ingame testing with our pros to get the encoder logic just right.


ahujlgkihasjfdg
mechanical quadrature encoders are so fuhdsalkghsjdghling simple. you don't even need to debounce it......

honestly based on how clueless that posts sounds, apart from click latency i'm expecting even the corsiar m65pro's firmware to be better
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> first it was "soon", then it was march, then it was early-mid april, now april 25, ... i'll predict this summer


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wth is a sensor current resistor?
> 
> i'm fairly convinced he's just talking out of his ass


He most likely just googled "sensor and resistor". After not finding what he wanted, he then thought "hey if i am busy spinning crap i'll spin that sensor being affected by a resistor too!"

The cringe man.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wth is a sensor current resistor?


It's like on a whatever mouse, when the whole batch was defective when the manufacturer occasionally installed a 150 Ohm resistor instead of a 15K one into the sensor circuit.


----------



## qsxcv

"sensor current resistor" makes about as much sense as "usb debounce connector" or any other 3 random words thrown together


----------



## granitov

Sounds ok to me. Like, a current resistor opposed to voltage divider (in an amplifier). Maybe because the rep. isn't a native English speaker either.


----------



## popups

It took so long I decided to use the money on a vacuum. That's how much I care at this point -- I rather have a vacuum.


----------



## qsxcv

"voltage divider" is a single entity

"current" and "resistor" don't add up...

it's like saying "fluoride toothbrush" or something.


----------



## granitov

Like in an "operating current limiting resistor", not a shunt resistor, a debounce filter resistor, or else.
Quote:


> There is a new glitch detection on the DPI button. So what this means is that when the sensor is tracking (the mouse is being moved) the dpi can not be changed&#8230;. It can only be changed when the mouse is still&#8230;.
> 
> Also we added the ability to do complete firmware overhauls on the field with a handy little switch on the pcb.


Moar like garage engineering. Wonder what the switch does. Still could play well among enthusiasts, as I would like the ability to tweak my custom mouse.


----------



## trism

Well it is most likely the current limiting resistor for the LED anode pin. Still oddly chosen words though and why would they differentiate from Pixart's recommendations on such a thing, especially since the LED is integrated? Unless they are using 3v3 for the LED instead of the suggested 5V.

At least that's the only thing what makes any kind of sense and LED brightness (most likely) has an effect on the SQUAL value.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> TL;DR
> Scream One: 15 June early press release.


Yay, another announcement first!


----------



## popups

The switch/button on the PCB is likely to reset the MCU so you can flash another firmware on it. You see it on custom keyboards.


----------



## qsxcv

except this is supposed to be a finished product not a diy thingy.

and it's not even hard to make it so that e.g. if you press the dpi button while plugging in, go to firmware flashing/bootloader mode. that's what i do on my modded g100s and zalman mice


----------



## trism

Well all of the mice with firmware updates go to bootloader/dfu -mode when you flash in a new firmware. Doesn't need a button to be pressed. I'm guessing that by doing it this way they are effectively removing their part of the RMA issues if someone decides to upgrade the firmware and bricks the device.

...or the button is for something else completely


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The switch/button on the PCB is likely to reset the MCU so you can flash another firmware on it. You see it on custom keyboards.


I wish I could edit firmware on my QFRi so much, omitting those useless "interactive lighting" presets and reducing the PWM-strobing effect.

Assume that tweaking something like sensor operation would be much more difficult for an uneducated user, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I'm guessing that by doing it this way they are effectively removing their part of the RMA issues


They want to either make the function more easily accessible, or to advertise this as a feature.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> They want to either make the function more easily accessible, or to advertise this as a feature.


How is it more accessible if it's a button inside the mouse? Wouldn't it be more accessible if, say, a software did that for you? I would assume the MCU they are using is capable of jumping to different addresses via code...







Or alternatively, use the way qsxcv does it?


----------



## qsxcv

actually, thinking about it, i'm kind of surprised they offer the possibility of firmware flashing at all.


----------



## granitov

"Accessible" is that they have that function at all. Why the button instead of a software - well, seems they prefer going the keyboards route in that regard.


----------



## Bucake

i wonder if they just encountered bugs if the dpi was changed while movement was still being detected. (or maybe the feature *is* the bug!)
i mean, how would that "feature" ever be useful as long as the dpi button isn't placed ******edly?


----------



## SmashTV

I see Jude is still on spins at FinalStall. He should get a position at a lobbying firm.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Yay, another announcement first!


That date is irrelevant. It releases to the public on 10th July.


----------



## a_ak57

Supposedly releases on June 10th, anyway. Like how the mouse was definitely going to release in March.


----------



## Dreyka

At this point the mouse will probably be released mid August/early September.

I don't know what the hell the firmware button is. You still need to connect it to a computer to install the firmware.

No mention of turning the LEDs off. Beyond the limits of the Finalmouse "engineering department".


----------



## Vantavia

If zowie got the 3360 and optical mouse buttons to fix their latency/double click bs they would literally be the "final...mice?". Lighter mouse buttons would be nice too I guess.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> At this point the mouse will probably be released mid August/early September.
> 
> I don't know what the hell the firmware button is. You still need to connect it to a computer to install the firmware.
> 
> No mention of turning the LEDs off. Beyond the limits of the Finalmouse "engineering department".


Using the MCU reset switch/button and a different firmware will change that. Oh wait, they "hard wire" the LED still!?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> If zowie got the 3360 and optical mouse buttons to fix their latency/double click bs they would literally be the "final...mice?". Lighter mouse buttons would be nice too I guess.


So if they were almost entirely different mice they would be the final mouse


----------



## trhead

Scream just beat Fnatic with his Finalmouse. Best mouse confirmed? Discuss







/s


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Scream just beat Fnatic with his Finalmouse. Best mouse confirmed? Discuss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /s


ScreaM is still using the 2016 ergo lmao


----------



## zealord

Looks like a cool mouse. Never heard of Finalmouse and I am not playing competitively anymore.

77$ seems pretty expensive too.

Are there any other good mice. Right handed. I don't like the ambidex. design of my current ZA11 Zowie.

I'd say I have rather big hands. Already tested the SS Rival, didn't like it because clicks are weird and the rubber at thumb wore off fast.

Anyone have some good recommendations?


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So if they were almost entirely different mice they would be the final mouse


The switches and sensor are the only part that arn't technically designed by (almost) any mouse company, so by all means it would still be a zowie because of it's non OEM shell and cable.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Looks like a cool mouse. Never heard of Finalmouse and I am not playing competitively anymore.
> 
> 77$ seems pretty expensive too.
> 
> Are there any other good mice. Right handed. I don't like the ambidex. design of my current ZA11 Zowie.
> 
> I'd say I have rather big hands. Already tested the SS Rival, didn't like it because clicks are weird and the rubber at thumb wore off fast.
> 
> Anyone have some good recommendations?


well ec1-a is an ergo big mouse, and then there's the DA. Those are definitely the most viable replacements if u want a mouse thats the size of za11/ss rival


----------



## v0rtex-SI

I feel like XM300 needs to be mentioned as better DA.. if you get one with ok scroll wheel.. unlike mine


----------



## Ameko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> I feel like XM300 needs to be mentioned as better DA.. if you get one with ok scroll wheel.. unlike mine


But every deathadder 2013/chroma has a problem with scroll wheel
That weird rattle when you scroll it up
I HATE THIS
but overall it's not that bad


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ameko*
> 
> But every deathadder 2013/chroma has a problem with scroll wheel
> That weird rattle when you scroll it up
> I HATE THIS
> but overall it's not that bad


I dont really have issues with loud wheels or easy/hard to scroll preferences.. but this scrool wheel is moving both vertically and horizontaly when im browsing the friggin web.. It just tilts me becasue otherwise this mouse is top notch!


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> The switches and sensor are the only part that arn't technically designed by (almost) any mouse company, so by all means it would still be a zowie because of it's non OEM shell and cable.


They would need to change the shells to fix the stiff clicks not just the switches and the shell may even be enough without switching the switches, they would need to change the firmware to get good click delays, they need to change the scroll wheels in general, and imo they don't make a single good shape though I would like to try the ZA13 and haven't, but that one is subjective. Still even if you like the shapes more of the mouse needs to be changed than stays the same. I can't really justify spending 60-70$ on the ZA13 though and no where near me sells them so I could possible hold a floor model or whatever afaik. I know there are things I just don't like about zowie mice and while the shape looks better than their others I doubt I would really like it. It just might be the only one I don't strongly dislike.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> They would need to change the shells to fix the stiff clicks not just the switches and the shell may even be enough without switching the switches, they would need to change the firmware to get good click delays, they need to change the scroll wheels in general, and imo they don't make a single good shape though I would like to try the ZA13 and haven't, but that one is subjective. Still even if you like the shapes more of the mouse needs to be changed than stays the same. I can't really justify spending 60-70$ on the ZA13 though and no where near me sells them so I could possible hold a floor model or whatever afaik. I know there are things I just don't like about zowie mice and while the shape looks better than their others I doubt I would really like it. It just might be the only one I don't strongly dislike.


The EC is one of the better shaped mice.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Retailer near me carries them. They just kinda sit there and sell one every now and then.

All the pre Benq FK's they sold were visilby opened returns. The FK1 I bought was returned, I bought it then returned it the same day, then some poor bastard bought that one and didn't return it.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The EC is one of the better shaped mice.


I can't stand that shape ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ameko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> I dont really have issues with loud wheels or easy/hard to scroll preferences.. but this scrool wheel is moving both vertically and horizontaly when im browsing the friggin web.. It just tilts me becasue otherwise this mouse is top notch!


Hmmm
If you are speaking about xm300 - then I hope they'll fix it, because this mouse is promising
Especially for it's price


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> well ec1-a is an ergo big mouse, and then there's the DA. Those are definitely the most viable replacements if u want a mouse thats the size of za11/ss rival


How big is the Finalmouse (the newest one from the thread here) ?


----------



## Ameko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> How big is the Finalmouse (the newest one from the thread here) ?


Mentioning size is not popular nowadays
As well as any useful info
Maybe this clue can help tho

If they haven't mentioned size change - probably it's the same?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ameko*
> 
> Mentioning size is not popular nowadays
> As well as any useful info
> Maybe this clue can help tho
> 
> If they haven't mentioned size change - probably it's the same?


doesn't really help since today is the first day I've ever heard of Finalmouse, but still thanks. I think I will look again once the mouse comes out

have a +REP from me since you are at 0 currently


----------



## Ameko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> doesn't really help since today is the first day I've ever heard of Finalmouse, but still thanks. I think I will look again once the mouse comes out
> 
> have a +REP from me since you are at 0 currently


Well, considering that finalmouse classic ergo has the same shape as imperator - then it must be approx 123 mm / 4.85" (Length) x 70 mm / 2.76" (Width) x 43 mm / 1.69" (Height)
For tournament pro it's 26mm L - 68mm W - and 39mm H(according to FM guy here)
tytyty <3


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I have some solid hopes for the 3360 rehash of the Zowie mice, i really think they'll segment the 1 & 2's & fix scroll issues like the Ec Series LED that so many don't give a nipple for. The segmented buttons are what i care most for to be real. Glad to see that SS did it with the Rival 700, though that is a terribly failed release. Side button fix for the ec series would be nice as well, the way the Za & Fk mice are side button wise would be a nice change. Lightwr switches on the fk & za for those who care.

Overall i feel like they are on the right path, the software subject is up for objections though, some like no software some like it, some just want the ability to do simple stuff like set dpi to their desire instead of being stuck with pre set values.

As for FM, a failed release indeed, i would like to see the side buttons certainly changed on the ergo. We'll see how the Scream 1 actually is when it drops. They said no mouse will have faster buttons, so we gon'see.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have some solid hopes for the 3360 rehash of the Zowie mice, i really think they'll segment the 1 & 2's & fix scroll issues like the Ec Series LED that so many don't give a nipple for. The segmented buttons are what i care most for to be real. Glad to see that SS did it with the Rival 700, though that is a terribly failed release. Side button fix for the ec series would be nice as well, the way the Za & Fk mice are side button wise would be a nice change. Lightwr switches on the fk & za for those who care.
> 
> Overall i feel like they are on the right path, the software subject is up for objections though, some like no software some like it, some just want the ability to do simple stuff like set dpi to their desire instead of being stuck with pre set values.
> 
> As for FM, a failed release indeed, i would like to see the side buttons certainly changed on the ergo. We'll see how the Scream 1 actually is when it drops. They said no mouse will have faster buttons, so we gon'see.


And then logitech releases a lightweight wired G900 and you're right back where you started >: D


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> And then logitech releases a lightweight wired G900 and you're right back where you started >: D


I am not using the g900 someone who couldn't get a hold of one purchased it from me. However it's lightweight enough to me. Lol

Logitech did a great job on that one, i think it will sell like Hotcakes when sales pop up for it & if the price drops sooner or later. Speaking of hotcakes how good are those?? Mmm.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Speaking of hotcakes how good are those??


They're tasteless.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> They're tasteless.


Just add a lil syrup & heaven they are.


----------



## RDno1

Scream is at 80 kills in 3 maps vs Luminosity right now. Back at Finalmouse HQ they are popping the champagne








(Still not using the Scream One though)


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Scream is at 80 kills in 3 maps vs Luminosity right now. Back at Finalmouse HQ they are popping the champagne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Still not using the Scream One though)


We shall see how the scream lives up to the FM created hype. However the Ergo is still one of my Fav mice. Has been for a good while.


----------



## trhead

If they lose 3:2, no purchase from me. Just kidding


----------



## gujukal

I'm deciding between this and Dreammachine DM1, which would you pick? I really like the shape of Sensei, is this similar in shape and size? Looks like it to me except the buttons.


----------



## Bucake

to be a real winner, you gotta get both


----------



## gujukal

My wallet would not be a winner


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> I'm deciding between this and Dreammachine DM1, which would you pick? I really like the shape of Sensei, is this similar in shape and size? Looks like it to me except the buttons.


Yes it is. You won't miss a beat.


----------



## chr1spe

Scream and Shox played like it was 2013 again. I was more impressed by Shox, but that was still the best I've seen Scream play in forever. Scream is still using the Ergo though


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Scream and Shox played like it was 2013 again. I was more impressed by Shox, but that was still the best I've seen Scream play in forever. Scream is still using the Ergo though


Very games 2009.. Not that good but decent


----------



## Oeshon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Scream and Shox played like it was 2013 again. I was more impressed by Shox, but that was still the best I've seen Scream play in forever. Scream is still using the Ergo though


Scream is using the ambi. Check out the last tournament.


----------



## Oeshon

This mouse has to come out soon. Shape wise the ambi finalmouse was a beast to play with, very comfortable for finger tip. It's the only mouse I can play very fast with other than the Kana White.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czerro*
> 
> The click latency thing is so tired at this point. If people investigated the backwards interpolation and otherwise latency issues associated with game netcode, they would realize this is not even an issue. You are talking about thousandths of seconds imperceptible to the human eye, let alone the game engine, let alone the game engines netcode.
> 
> Click latency....
> 
> Zowie cut theirs within a margin of Logitech's top end contender, right? It's the closest thing on the market that is equivocable to the ONE mouse logitech makes that has almost no latency? And they are still getting bugged about it?
> 
> If you think you know the difference between 3ms or 7ms response...you are a freaking savant. Neither the game engine or the netcode is equipped to know the difference, so how YOU do is somehow a miracle.


you are fine but i need lightest mouse,with good click and better
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> This mouse has to come out soon. Shape wise the ambi finalmouse was a beast to play with, very comfortable for finger tip. It's the only mouse I can play very fast with other than the Kana White.


is good for palm too?


----------



## denman

I prefer the shape of something like the G402/502 than my 2016 FM Tournament Pro. I'm actually putting the FM Pro up for sale as I don't ever use it anymore :/


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

It will be funny to see if FM can stick to May 20th as the date for the Ergo to be back in stock on Amazon. Amazon says in stock on May 22nd currently, can they not keep a date at all? lol


----------



## DreamMachines

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> can they not keep a date at all? lol


we are ok with that


----------



## kashim

guys is screamone/fm tournament pro 2016 shape good for palm?is bigger then g502?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys is screamone/fm tournament pro 2016 shape good for palm?is bigger then g502?


Neither are bigger than g502 and tournament is probably not for palm, the classic ergo is for palm


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Not bigger than the 502 but it can be palmed. I palmed the tournament pro with no issue or discomfort at all.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Not bigger than the 502 but it can be palmed. I palmed the tournament pro with no issue or discomfort at all.


my problem with g502 shape is the angled mouse...i play with my right side of palm near the mousepad like this \


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DreamMachines*
> 
> we are ok with that


Competition is alwayssss good


----------



## wareya

What if the competition isn't playing by the same rules?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> What if the competition isn't playing by the same rules?


Then we have some discrepancies lol


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> How is it more accessible if it's a button inside the mouse? Wouldn't it be more accessible if, say, a software did that for you? I would assume the MCU they are using is capable of jumping to different addresses via code...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or alternatively, use the way qsxcv does it?


We haven't officially announced this yet... but the pcb switch will have a couple different functions.

Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse. We heard this idea here on OCN and we thought it would be a really cool thing that hasn't been done before.

When the switch is in a certain position you will be able to plug it in and simply see your mouse as a "drive" , where you can drop in a firmware.bin file. As simple as changing files on a USB flash drive.

Second it allows those who want custom firmwares to have a way to fully flash the firmware with (non-official) firmwares we release. Let's say we make a mouse for a certain pro that likes a certain amount of prediction... You could use that in the scream one.

Third the chances of bricking your mouse is greatly reduced.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse. We heard this idea here on OCN and we thought it would be a really cool thing that hasn't been done before.


k, give us a pcb schematic then

of course i could get the same information just by following pcb traces as i did with my other mice, but if you guys are serious about this then you should be the ones providing that info


----------



## daunow

Gotta be honest, the company is brave as hell to even talk in here lmao


----------



## CorruptBE

In before qsxcv's uber low latency firmware.

Oh wait they still need to release the mouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Gotta be honest, the company is brave as hell to even talk in here lmao


Gotta have some balls to succeed.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Gotta have some balls to succeed.


Is that the part they don't see?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse.


actually
this may be one of the easiest mice out there to add lan hacks to
lol


----------



## trism

Consider adding a flash chip onto the PCB? E.g. http://www.macronix.com/en-us/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNo=MX25L4006E ? So we can write inbuilt hac... I mean, we can add settings and presets functionality.

Although the way you described it kinda sounds like it already has one


----------



## Furiosus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse. We heard this idea here on OCN and we thought it would be a really cool thing that hasn't been done before.


This sounds like a great option. Firmware is relatively simple, and open sourcing it would allow for much faster fixes and general improvements. I mean, qsxcv has a point about "LAN hacks" but there's no good reason someone with the determination and resources available couldn't do that already with most ARM or AVR mice. Yeah, the potential for nefarious exploitation is there, but it's always been there, especially since mice had rewritable firmware and processing units.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually
> this may be one of the easiest mice out there to add lan hacks to
> lol


Flusha One?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually
> this may be one of the easiest mice out there to add lan hacks to
> lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Consider adding a flash chip onto the PCB? E.g. http://www.macronix.com/en-us/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNo=MX25L4006E ? So we can write inbuilt hac... I mean, we can add settings and presets functionality.
> 
> Although the way you described it kinda sounds like it already has one


Yeah, true. However, that's only if events choose not to have anti cheat or analyze the gear. It's not like it didn't happen in the past or is happening now. Keyboards seem like the better choice for this.

The obvious thing is to provide new gear for the teams like they provide monitors, PCs and earmuffs.

By the way, it's funny how HLTV deleted the thread that shows how hardware cheats are possible and actually could have been used with "Baking Bread" or other "Workshop" cheats.

Companies can just offer open source firmwares as an alternative rather than allowing easier flashing from the user. Still doesn't fix LAN cheats, but at least it makes it a little harder for a 12 year old.


----------



## qsxcv

maybe one solution would be to make something like the gameref thing but much simpler: just ensure that the only usb communication that is passed through is mouse/keyboard data.

so the mouse has no way to upload cheats onto the pc, and the pc has no way of sending player positions or whatever to the mouse.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We haven't officially announced this yet... but the pcb switch will have a couple different functions.
> 
> Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse. We heard this idea here on OCN and we thought it would be a really cool thing that hasn't been done before.
> 
> When the switch is in a certain position you will be able to plug it in and simply see your mouse as a "drive" , where you can drop in a firmware.bin file. As simple as changing files on a USB flash drive.
> 
> Second it allows those who want custom firmwares to have a way to fully flash the firmware with (non-official) firmwares we release. Let's say we make a mouse for a certain pro that likes a certain amount of prediction... You could use that in the scream one.
> 
> Third the chances of bricking your mouse is greatly reduced.


Is anything being done to increase stocks on launch day? Or am I going to have to camp the Amazon page for hours to get one of these in the same month of release like the last two times.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually
> this may be one of the easiest mice out there to add lan hacks to
> lol


In the csgo scene running lan hacks has been easy enough already. Considering they run the windows version of csgo on lan instead of the linux client. Its so much easier to exploit the zeroday exploits in windows than it is in properly configured linux.


----------



## P54J

Lol, having ScreamOne is like hacking already...

@FM pay me for advertising


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> In the csgo scene running lan hacks has been easy enough already. Considering they run the windows version of csgo on lan instead of the linux client. Its so much easier to exploit the zeroday exploits in windows than it is in properly configured linux.


_If I remember correctly._

The "Baking Bread" LAN cheat used a small injector (I think it was 36k), it logged into the coder's private account system and the cheat was inside a certain exploited map that you subscribed to in the Workshop/Valve's servers. The only people who got caught using it were still subscribed to the map/cheat...

After the VAC update, certain players didn't perform the same way for an extended period of time. It seems like the things you seen in 2014 didn't really happen to the same degree in 2015. However, 2016 might be different than 2015.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I have a list of players that might be cheating. So far, 50% of them were caught cheating; hopefully, that number will increase.


----------



## qsxcv

curious, how many in your list are in a top20 team (using, for instance, hltv rankings)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> curious, how many in your list are in a top20 team (using, for instance, hltv rankings)


It varied from non competitive teams to event winners.

At times there was 2 "suspicious" players on one team. Sometimes there was 1 "suspicious" player on a team, then coincidentally another player on that team became "suspicious" when the 1st "suspicious" player was on the roster, but when the 1st "suspicious" player left the 2nd "suspicious" player was no longer "suspicious."

Early motives ranged from wanting to be a pro to wanting to win some money. Later motives are to retain their position and/or win a lot of money. That's a big difference, though it doesn't seem like it.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I suspect a recent roster change could be very enlightening. This is currently speculation on my part. However...


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _If I remember correctly._
> 
> The "Baking Bread" LAN cheat used a small injector (I think it was 36k), it logged into the coder's private account system and the cheat was inside a certain exploited map that you subscribed to in the Workshop/Valve's servers. The only people who got caught using it were still subscribed to the map/cheat...
> 
> After the VAC update, certain players didn't perform the same way for an extended period of time. It seems like the things you seen in 2014 didn't really happen to the same degree in 2015. However, 2016 might be different than 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I have a list of players that might be cheating. So far, 50% of them were caught cheating; hopefully, that number will increase.


Exploiting steam workshop vulnerabilities has nothing to do with zeroday exploits. I know exactly how baking bread works as i have the source of it on my pc.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Exploiting steam workshop vulnerabilities has nothing to do with zeroday exploits. I know exactly how baking bread works as i have the source of it on my pc.


The actual source of the cheat or just the injector? I know injectors were leaked, but I don't remember seeing the source code for the actual cheat. I had the config and help files. I forgot what map it was.

The Workshop exploits were known for years and people told Valve about them, but Valve didn't do anything until ESEA came to them.

By the way, I think there was/is possibly 3 different cheats being used.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The actual source of the cheat or just the injector? I know injectors were leaked, but I don't remember seeing the source code for the actual cheat. I had the config and help files. I forgot what map it was...


Just look for the black hats.








All I know is that even now it is ridiculously easy to cheat on lan unless valve:
1) Forces players to play on new hardware every time (mice and keyboards)
2) Starts using linux client for lans


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Just look for the black hats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I know is that even now it is ridiculously easy to cheat on lan unless valve:
> 1) Forces players to play on new hardware every time (mice and keyboards)
> 2) Starts using linux client for lans


Using Linux would require companies to code drivers and programs for it

At least the Linux version is said to give you higher FPS with the same hardware.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Using Linux would require companies to code drivers and programs for it
> 
> At least the Linux version is said to give you higher FPS with the same hardware.


Most decent mice and kb can function withour drivers. Valve just wants to give the hackers a chance i guess.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Most decent mice and kb can function withour drivers. Valve just wants to give the hackers a chance i guess.


Even pro players want to be able to configure their gear with drivers. That is definitely going to be the case if they are supplied fresh gear.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Even pro players want to be able to configure their gear with drivers. That is definitely going to be the case if they are supplied fresh gear.


How about booting to windows to store the config and then using linux to play?


----------



## qsxcv

one of the qualms i have with linux csgo is that there's no fullscreen exclusive mode and changing res/refresh rate requires changing the desktop resolution too
and it's not like it's impossible to hack on linux...


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> one of the qualms i have with linux csgo is that there's no fullscreen exclusive mode and changing res/refresh rate requires changing the desktop resolution too
> and it's not like it's impossible to hack on linux...


It is not impossible but near 100% of the lan hacks are currently made for windows simply because linux is not used at lans.


----------



## qsxcv

with so much money in cs now i'd say that it's unlikely that lan hacks would not be ported to linux if tournaments started using linux


----------



## trism

tinfoilhat theories going strong in this thread


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> tinfoilhat theories going strong in this thread


Apparently you don't know much about these topics. You might be able to still find the Baking Bread stuff that will show you it isn't a theory. There were statements from the players that used that cheat or similar ones.

People already got caught for using cheats in the pro GO scene. There was SF, KQLY, SMN, CLY, Emillio, AREA, etc. Although, AREA wasn't a pro because he was cheating the entire time to get noticed, but when he got offers from teams he refused. By the way, I heard AREA was/is good buddies with Scream.

Before people knew Scream as the head shot machine, before they talked about his 1 taps, there was AREA.






Injecting cheats through USB devices is a common thing.






Some mice come with 128kb of additional memory, which is enough to store an injector. The FinalMouse will be able to store a firmware (that makes me think about getting one).


----------



## trism

Only "pro" out of those is KQLY, others are pretty nonames and definitely played without salaries. But even KQLY, you don't know whether the story he gave is true or not. Area was known to be a cheater way before, nothing new in that. Also it was back then, not now. I guess there could be random cheaters in tier 3 teams but you have to really have a tinfoil hat going on if you believe that tier 1 teams have cheaters.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Only "pro" out of those is KQLY, others are pretty nonames and definitely played without salaries. But even KQLY, you don't know whether the story he gave is true or not. Area was known to be a cheater way before, nothing new in that. Also it was back then, not now. I guess there could be random cheaters in tier 3 teams but you have to really have a tinfoil hat going on if you believe that tier 1 teams have cheaters.


Umm... SF played with Scream in Epsilon. I guess Scream isn't a pro either.

KQLY was on a tier 1 team. He was going to the $250,000 Valve tournament. He did attend other tournaments, of which they won. I guess the store ran out of tinfoil.

Anyway, the entire conversation is about injecting cheats through USB devices, which includes mice and keyboards. This is obviously possible, as there were Workshop and other cheats designed for it.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Umm... SF played with Scream in Epsilon. I guess Scream isn't a pro either.
> 
> KQLY was on a tier 1 team. He was going to the $250,000 Valve tournament. He did attend other tournaments, of which they won. I guess the store ran out of tinfoil.


Read again my post: "that was back then". They didn't test the equipment on any level and there was much less on stake for the players. Players thought scoring one or two big wins in a tournament was all the eSports for CS:GO was going to be, easy money, get in get out. Now tier 1 players are paid salary multiple times higher than what the normal salary in many countries is. Earning millions is entirely possible. You think they would risk it now? You think their teammates would allow them to risk it for everyone? Nah bro. Also KQLY could have easily been trying the cheat in a pug match to see how it works, you don't know whether he used in the matches or not.

All the witchhunt is so rofl. Like all the stuff on flusha... People being jealous of other people's success.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Read again my post: "that was back then". They didn't test the equipment on any level and there was much less on stake for the players. Players thought scoring one or two big wins in a tournament was all the eSports for CS:GO was going to be, easy money, get in get out. Now tier 1 players are paid salary multiple times higher than what the normal salary in many countries is. Earning millions is entirely possible. You think they would risk it now? You think their teammates would allow them to risk it for everyone? Nah bro. Also KQLY could have easily been trying the cheat in a pug match to see how it works, you don't know whether he used in the matches or not.
> 
> All the witchhunt is so rofl. Like all the stuff on flusha... People being jealous of other people's success.







Again, this conversation isn't supposed to be about players, it's about the USB devices and the things you can do with them.


----------



## ncck

Lol ten gauge I was in that vent either before or after that video, all of esea late nighters were in there it was hysterical

Damn I miss when ips got leaked and we'd raid mumbles


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Again, this conversation isn't supposed to be about players, it's about the USB devices and the things you can do with them.


You can deny the use of USB storage devices by restricting the user policy, like what the tournament organizers do. That's out of the question obviously. So you can't just identify the micro-controller as USB storage device and drag'n'drop the file with the tournament computers.

Technically I might know one way how to do it but it would be very susceptible for someone noticing it. Also dunno how long it would take to transfer the program data from the micro-controller by using the HID class only.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Also KQLY could have easily been trying the cheat in a pug match to see how it works, you don't know whether he used in the matches or not.


I remember that he said in his statement that he had cheated months before he joined Titan.
He either was still using the hacks and he wrote a completely fake history, or the cheat kept a few files on his PC and ESEA/Valve detected those and decided to ban him anyways.
The problem is that VAC doesn't work that way, they don't scan your whole PC looking for files or evidences. I wouldn't doubt if ESEA actually did this, but in this case he would've been banned on ESEA only.
I can't really see Valve doing those kind of investigations with specific players and manually VAC ban them, especially months after the "incident"







(Or maybe years?)
But they've turned FODDER's OW ban into a VAC ban almost a year later, so go figure...

I don't think we'll ever know what exactly happened in that case.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I remember that he said in his statement that he had cheated months before he joined Titan.
> He either was still using the hacks and he wrote a completely fake history, or the cheat kept a few files on his PC and ESEA/Valve detected those and decided to ban him anyways.
> The problem is that VAC doesn't work that way, they don't scan your whole PC looking for files or evidences. I wouldn't doubt if ESEA actually did this, but in this case he would've been banned on ESEA only.
> I can't really see Valve doing those kind of investigations with specific players and manually VAC ban them, especially months after the "incident"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Or maybe years?)
> But they've turned FODDER's OW ban into a VAC ban almost a year later, so go figure...
> 
> I don't think we'll ever know what exactly happened in that case.


pretty sure he never issued any statement about his ban saying that, also he got banned while he was at the titan house, not at home, so if he wasnt cheating at that time there wouldn't be any cheat related files on that pc, i guess. Ofcourse it could be they detected it some time ago and waited to ban him or something


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> pretty sure he never issued any statement about his ban saying that, also he got banned while he was at the titan house, not at home, so if he wasnt cheating at that time there wouldn't be any cheat related files on that pc, i guess. Ofcourse it could be they detected it some time ago and waited to ban him or something


http://www.hltv.org/news/13651-kqly-ban-was-justified

"At the end of August, I was contacted by a supex0 progammer, who built a strong case and told me that a lot of pros were using the program. "

Here's his statement: https://www.facebook.com/KQLYY/posts/663241367127259
And he got banned on November: http://www.hltv.org/news/13636-kqly-handed-vac-ban

It took 3 months to ban him. He's either lying or Valve decided to manually ban him because ESEA showed them a few evidences.
ESEA detected his cheats 3 days before his VAC ban (I know that because smn got ESEA banned, and they were supposedly using the same cheat http://www.hltv.org/news/13624-smn-banned-on-esea-for-cheating )

I know that Valve could've waited a few days before banning him, but I doubt they would've waited 3 months.
He said that he cheated for 1 week at the end of August. IMO he was probably lying on his post.

So I guess the workshop cheat was a real thing. He only needed to log in with his steam account and download the workshop map, then it would automatically inject the cheat into his game.


----------



## Zhuni

"They talk about my massively delayed release date"


----------



## frunction

Can you start another thread on HLTV or something to talk about CSGO cheating...


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Technically I might know one way how to do it but it would be very susceptible for someone noticing it. Also dunno how long it would take to transfer the program data from the micro-controller by using the HID class only.


64 bytes every poll so 64kB/s?

but you'd need some way of loading the data into a file.

or the usb device can just emulate a keyboard and doenload whatever it wants using cmd or windows run.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 64 bytes every poll so 64kB/s?
> 
> but you'd need some way of loading the data into a file.
> 
> or the usb device can just emulate a keyboard and doenload whatever it wants using cmd or windows run.


Probably around that.

What do you mean? Download? Yeah, that was what I had in mind. Emulate a keyboard and send the program data to notepad via key presses.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Can you start another thread on HLTV or something to talk about CSGO cheating...


There was already a hardware cheat thread started this week, however, HLTV admins decided to delete it after I posted some stuff showing the possibilities. I don't understand why they would delete something that is trying to show that current security at LAN events may not be enough to stop people cheating. There wasn't any cheats posted within that thread, just video and pictures.

The reason this conversation started was because of teensy projects on this forum and,,,,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We haven't officially announced this yet... but the pcb switch will have a couple different functions.
> 
> Firstly it will allow enthusiasts to swap their own firmwares into the mouse. We heard this idea here on OCN and we thought it would be a really cool thing that hasn't been done before.
> 
> When the switch is in a certain position you will be able to plug it in and simply see your mouse as a "drive" , where you can drop in a firmware.bin file. As simple as changing files on a USB flash drive.
> 
> Second it allows those who want custom firmwares to have a way to fully flash the firmware with (non-official) firmwares we release. Let's say we make a mouse for a certain pro that likes a certain amount of prediction... You could use that in the scream one.
> 
> Third the chances of bricking your mouse is greatly reduced.


I'm not against FinalMouse offering this feature. This feature could really make the FinalMouse a good alternative to other products when you use a custom firmware -- that is if the LED isn't "hardwired" still and the QC isn't an issue anymore.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There was already a hardware cheat thread started this week, however, HLTV admins decided to delete it after I posted some stuff showing the possibilities. I don't understand why they would delete something that is trying to show that current security at LAN events may not be enough to stop people cheating. There wasn't any cheats posted within that thread, just video and pictures.


probably because they subscribe to the notion that security through obscurity still works.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There was already a hardware cheat thread started this week, however, HLTV admins decided to delete it after I posted some stuff showing the possibilities. I don't understand why they would delete something that is trying to show that current security at LAN events may not be enough to stop people cheating. There wasn't any cheats posted within that thread, just video and pictures.


Dude, it's hltv. What would you expect?
It's the place where if you post something helpful, you get an IP ban for a week. Meanwhile other people are saying that they hate certain races and they should all die and the admins just ignore it.


----------



## daunow

pc gamers hacking
whats new


----------



## speedyeggtart

Do what pro sports do - test the peripherals, or have sponsors provide "unopened" peripherals that the attending pro players use to provide to them. I see that happening one day when the money gets bigger and the "health of eSports" is on the line. Look what cheating and 322 has done to StarCraft and the eSports nature of it = dead game.


----------



## Furiosus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There was already a hardware cheat thread started this week, however, HLTV admins decided to delete it after I posted some stuff showing the possibilities. I don't understand why they would delete something that is trying to show that current security at LAN events may not be enough to stop people cheating. There wasn't any cheats posted within that thread, just video and pictures.


That video was really interesting. Makes sense though, I guess traffic is always going to be a vulnerability in games. It looked in those videos like the hacks computation was ran on a separate device (mobile phone, avr/arduino) that sniffed the traffic and made calculations based off that. If you know your own characters rotational vector and the vector of your opponents (which, from that video I gather is exposed in the games traffic) I guess you can then emulate a mouse with something like a Teensy and hey presto you have a hardware aim bot.

Perhaps the solution to hardware cheats is hardware anti-cheats.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> That video was really interesting. Makes sense though, I guess traffic is always going to be a vulnerability in games. It looked in those videos like the hacks computation was ran on a separate device (mobile phone, avr/arduino) that sniffed the traffic and made calculations based off that. If you know your own characters rotational vector and the vector of your opponents (which, from that video I gather is exposed in the games traffic) I guess you can then emulate a mouse with something like a Teensy and hey presto you have a hardware aim bot.
> 
> Perhaps the solution to hardware cheats is hardware anti-cheats.


As qsxcv has mentioned, something like the Game:Ref might be necessary equipment for FPS tournaments. Although, I have been more focused on using USB devices to inject/login and using the Workshop exploits to run the code.


----------



## speedyeggtart

LOL - why we talking about cheating in eSports on Finalmouse Scream thread? Should make a separate thread on this.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedyeggtart*
> 
> LOL - why we talking about cheating in eSports on Finalmouse Scream thread? Should make a separate thread on this.


Perhaps this is all some sort of metaphorical subliminal messaging from people who feel "cheated" by FM for constantly stalling the release.

2deep4me


----------



## mantorker

i dont think the game io things could actully beat this firmware type cheating.For example , the firmware has a function in main(), which is triggered when you hold down left button for 1.5s, than automaticlly send out something that is NOT from the optical chip;

Code:



Code:


pseudo:
void BurstFire2SingleClick()
{
if LeftButtonPress>1500ms
                {
                     while(LeftButtonStillPress()){
                          UsbSent(LeftButtounPress(1click));
                             delay(10ms);
                       } 
                 }
}

that is very easy to do such things when you have totally control to the firmware,not need to install driver or malware in the host computer, and Game io cant dectet any difference between mouse output and in-game output data, cuz the cheat comes from firmware itself.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I didn't even know the S1 did custom firmware, that gets my interest back up again. qsxcv, when can we expect the FinalFirmware from you?







We want to be able to flick onto heads like flusha.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> qsxcv, when can we expect the FinalFirmware from you?


well i don't know much about arm programming and i don't feel particularly motivated to learn at the moment

so don't expect anything from me. if there's some issue with their firmware, it is not my responsibility to fix it









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mantorker*
> 
> i dont think the game io things could actully beat this firmware type cheating.


you don't need anything as sophisticated as gameref whatever
just
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe one solution would be to make something like the gameref thing but much simpler: just ensure that the only usb communication that is passed through is mouse/keyboard data.


this way the mouse/keyboard cannot possibly receive any information about the state of the game

antirecoil, bhop scripts, etc... though, those are impossible to block


----------



## mantorker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well i don't know much about arm programming and i don't feel particularly motivated to learn at the moment
> 
> so don't expect anything from me. if there's some issue with their firmware, it is not my responsibility to fix it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you don't need anything as sophisticated as gameref whatever
> just
> this way the mouse/keyboard cannot possibly receive any information about the state of the game
> 
> antirecoil, bhop scripts, etc... though, those are impossible to block


the esport alliance should set something like "no-cheat certified" as a firmware standard,.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedyeggtart*
> 
> Do what pro sports do - test the peripherals, or have sponsors provide "unopened" peripherals that the attending pro players use to provide to them. I see that happening one day when the money gets bigger and the "health of eSports" is on the line. Look what cheating and 322 has done to StarCraft and the eSports nature of it = dead game.


But what if they use custom mouse feet.. going to have to replace those every time lol


----------



## Furiosus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mantorker*
> 
> that is very easy to do such things when you have totally control to the firmware,not need to install driver or malware in the host computer, and Game io cant dectet any difference between mouse output and in-game output data, cuz the cheat comes from firmware itself.


If the device is plugged into the anti-cheat hardware it'll pick that up. It's just sniffing USB comms and looking for data that really doesn't conform to what you'd expect from a USB mouse. On the other hand, what was shown in that cocaine hack video would probably not be detected; a USB mouse could have a Bluetooth receiver embedded and relay aim bot rotations as mouse movements. It adds a level of complexity, for sure, but it is still possible.

Furthermore, I think a competent embedded programmer would not have a hard time writing code for most ARM mice. Any mouse that will receive firmware updates (and perhaps others that don't) would be vulnerable. It'd take some reverse engineering of firmware, or of the hardware, which takes time, but its still doable. Alternatively most companies outsource their firmware development, so it can't be too hard to get a copy of the source from someone in a company like LaView.


----------



## mantorker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> If the device is plugged into the anti-cheat hardware it'll pick that up. It's just sniffing USB comms and looking for data that really doesn't conform to what you'd expect from a USB mouse. On the other hand, what was shown in that cocaine hack video would probably not be detected; a USB mouse could have a Bluetooth receiver embedded and relay aim bot rotations as mouse movements. It adds a level of complexity, for sure, but it is still possible.
> 
> Furthermore, I think a competent embedded programmer would not have a hard time writing code for most ARM mice. Any mouse that will receive firmware updates (and perhaps others that don't) would be vulnerable. It'd take some reverse engineering of firmware, or of the hardware, which takes time, but its still doable. Alternatively most companies outsource their firmware development, so it can't be too hard to get a copy of the source from someone in a company like LaView.


what about this: a zowie shell with fully custom mcu board attach to the optical chip in it .Just like what qsxcv did to his G100s, no need to hack the factory firmware.


----------



## Gylfen

What are the measurements on the Tournament pro?


----------



## Oeshon

The mandatory question.

Is it coming out this month?


----------



## a_ak57

It's supposed to come out next month.


----------



## CorruptBE

Lies, it's coming out after the next delay.


----------



## Zhuni

It's being released as a bundle with Half Life 3. With BST handling the launch


----------



## CorruptBE

Oh

I heard BST was handling the RMA's instead?


----------



## ncck

So since the Ergo re-release has anyone got their hands on it and can say QC wise it's ok? I personally have zero interested in the ergo but will look at the S1. Unfortunately it releases when I'll be gone.. but actually that's good cause then all the feedback/reviews will be out when I'm back









I'm also still on a internal debate if 500hz is really better than 1000hz.... I do feel that slightly higher dpi on higher resolution (like 800 on 1920x1080 instead of 400) feels a bit more 'smooth' while 400 would feel better on 1024x768 for example.... but that's off-topic


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So since the Ergo re-release has anyone got their hands on it and can say QC wise it's ok? I personally have zero interested in the ergo but will look at the S1. Unfortunately it releases when I'll be gone.. but actually that's good cause then all the feedback/reviews will be out when I'm back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also still on a internal debate if 500hz is really better than 1000hz.... I do feel that slightly higher dpi on higher resolution (like 800 on 1920x1080 instead of 400) feels a bit more 'smooth' while 400 would feel better on 1024x768 for example.... but that's off-topic


I'm not sure how much you've been following the goings-on of the mouse but you likely don't need to worry about the mouse actually coming out when you're away. >_>


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I'm not sure how much you've been following the goings-on of the mouse but you likely don't need to worry about the mouse actually coming out when you're away. >_>


Haha. I'm not worried, but I think they'll make this releasse date

I just want to see if it's all its hyped up to be


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So since the Ergo re-release has anyone got their hands on it and can say QC wise it's ok?


My friend received his via RMA and he says he doesn't use it at all. The side buttons are terrible and the QC does not seem to have gotten any better.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> My friend received his via RMA and he says he doesn't use it at all. The side buttons are terrible and the QC does not seem to have gotten any better.


Did he do this after the re-release date, and has he made sure it's a new one? Jude will have to comment on that or he'd have to contact support again to make sure; I find even for this company unlikely that they would change production facilities and have the same problems


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Did he do this after the re-release date, and has he made sure it's a new one? Jude will have to comment on that or he'd have to contact support again to make sure; I find even for this company unlikely that they would change production facilities and have the same problems


Yes it is confirmed to be new. It was out of stock on Amazon and he was given the option to wait or get one of the old ones. He waited and received the RMA after they had their stock.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Yes it is confirmed to be new. It was out of stock on Amazon and he was given the option to wait or get one of the old ones. He waited and received the RMA after they had their stock.


Well that's crazy, what issue is he having with it? I personally used one of the old ergos when it first came out and forgot how much I dislike ergo shapes. In terms of the actual mouse performance everything was fine, my only complaint that I recall was the LED being way too bright and annoyed that I couldn't disable it (as I do with all my mice) but in terms of 'quality' didn't see any outstanding issues. I heard the TP version is the one which had more 'issues'


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well that's crazy, what issue is he having with it? I personally used one of the old ergos when it first came out and forgot how much I dislike ergo shapes. In terms of the actual mouse performance everything was fine, my only complaint that I recall was the LED being way too bright and annoyed that I couldn't disable it (as I do with all my mice) but in terms of 'quality' didn't see any outstanding issues. I heard the TP version is the one which had more 'issues'


HE was fine with the old version too but it eventually died and had to get it replaced.

He said that the new ones have even worse side buttons and they were quite terrible to begin with. He doesn't use it anymore and thinking of selling it off, I don't recall any other complaints.


----------



## Deadeye

The way i see it, this brand so called "Finalmouse" is a complete flop.


----------



## nyshak

They still havent released the Scream







?


----------



## kingfoxii

Its called notsofinalmouse


----------



## Oeshon

"Rome wasn't build in a day".

Compared to this mouse it was build in half a day.

Cmon bros, you are modifying a OEM mouse, not building a nuclear powered stealth submarine.

Edit: Not an OEM, still not excused.


----------



## Nivity

I kinda want this mouse ;/


----------



## sk0g

I know it's cool to hate on them at all, but come on. Maybe they're tightening up on variances and all, actually making sure everything will work well when it comes release time? They got a lot of flak for throwing out their previous mice early, they might just be wanting to make sure they have a smooth launch this time.

Or maybe they're twiddling their thumbs, dunno.


----------



## Oeshon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sk0g*
> 
> I know it's cool to hate on them at all, but come on. Maybe they're tightening up on variances and all, actually making sure everything will work well when it comes release time? They got a lot of flak for throwing out their previous mice early, they might just be wanting to make sure they have a smooth launch this time.
> 
> Or maybe they're twiddling their thumbs, dunno.


haha I don't mind the wait that much tbh if they are making sure everything will be good, it would just be nice to keep us updated that's all


----------



## Oeshon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I kinda want this mouse ;/


I think Scream has been using the Tournament Pro recently instead of the ergo, and his aim has been beastly.

Can attest, since when I used the Tournament Pro my aim was near its best. For fingertip the mouse has great shape, supper light and good lod. Shouldn't have returned it for the clicks since the wait has been so long.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> I think Scream has been using the Tournament Pro recently instead of the ergo, and his aim has been beastly.
> 
> Can attest, since when I used the Tournament Pro my aim was near its best. For fingertip the mouse has great shape, supper light and good lod. Shouldn't have returned it for the clicks since the wait has been so long.


Do you have any pics? Someone in this thread claimed I was wrong that he was using the ergo at the ESEA pro league finals which his when G2 started doing well, but I'm 99% sure he was using the ergo as I saw his mouse on stream and it definitely looked like the ergo. I'm too lazy to rewatch the stream though.


----------



## sk0g

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> haha I don't mind the wait that much tbh if they are making sure everything will be good, it would just be nice to keep us updated that's all


Yeah... I just remember a very odd post from Jude, rambled on about things that just seemed like a Chinese ARM programmer guessing what optimisations you could do to a mouse in Chinese-English.

Definitely thought, could use a bit more communication. Would've thought being a company that exists mostly to cater to a specific niche they'd properly target it, but who knows.


----------



## Oeshon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Do you have any pics? Someone in this thread claimed I was wrong that he was using the ergo at the ESEA pro league finals which his when G2 started doing well, but I'm 99% sure he was using the ergo as I saw his mouse on stream and it definitely looked like the ergo. I'm too lazy to rewatch the stream though.






Very hard to find a clear camera view on the vods.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I kinda want this mouse ;/


Same, although it's mainly because it'll be the first 3360 in a decent shape.


----------



## dwnfall

Is this or the FM Ergo more narrow than the Death Adder? I loved the DA but it was too wide and caused thumb-web pain. Thanks.


----------



## Arttur101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> Is this or the FM Ergo more narrow than the Death Adder? I loved the DA but it was too wide and caused thumb-web pain. Thanks.


FM Ergo is definitely more narrow. I've owned both.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

How hard is it, really. 3360, raw, WMO-style shape, good build quality. £40-$60 at most, that's it. At this rate, might as well build my own.


----------



## Klopfer

FM Ergo is a Razer Imperator shape , maybe u can get ur Hand on this before


----------



## coldc0ffee

Just fyi, looked at most recent reviews of the ergo after the "tooling improvements and quality fixes" and there are still reports of bad quality. So for the TP and S1 probably gonna be a similar story


----------



## realistic01

Quick question - does the 2016 ergo still have that purported ~ 4 ms sensor delay that qsxvc measured?


----------



## dwnfall

FM Ergo shape will be nice for me then.. but with these issues you guys are listing I might just wait


----------



## PU skunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> How hard is it, really. 3360, raw, WMO-style shape, good build quality. £40-$60 at most, that's it. At this rate, might as well build my own.


There's not enough profit margin in that to feed bloated big time game companies. They need to add 12000 dpi, flashy leds, enhanced angle snapping ect. Marketing calls it "added value" which is usually just another term for added weight, added lag, added complexity, added bullshi*, but the important thing is added profit. To me there's no reason a general purpose gaming mouse should cost $80 or whatever but to each his own.


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> How hard is it, really. 3360, raw, WMO-style shape, good build quality. £40-$60 at most, that's it. At this rate, might as well build my own.


You build it and I'll be sure to pay a premium price to buy it.


----------



## ticoversion1

I got the 2016 ergo and the quality is better than the 2015 I had, mainly the left and right click feel better. But I'm just using this temporarily till scream one. If only there was a non-**** 3360 shape out ATM....


----------



## speedyeggtart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> How hard is it, really. 3360, raw, WMO-style shape, good build quality. £40-$60 at most, that's it. At this rate, might as well build my own.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pragmatist*
> 
> You build it and I'll be sure to pay a premium price to buy it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ticoversion1*
> 
> I got the 2016 ergo and the quality is better than the 2015 I had, mainly the left and right click feel better. But I'm just using this temporarily till scream one. If only there was a non-**** 3360 shape out ATM....


Not counting the Final Mouse Screem One - there are about 6 other mice with Pixart 3360 Sensors coming out in the next few months:
Most were announced or shown at Computex

http://www.overclock.net/t/1602282/lets-compile-all-3360-3366-and-their-release-dates-for-everyone/0_100#post_25234812


----------



## dwnfall

I got the FM Ergo 2016.. I like the shape and weight.. but that dpi button which (as far as I understand) you cannot turn off is in a horrible position. That is really turning me off this mouse. Also the stock mouse feet scratch on my Logitech pad (cloth) other than that it is a very good mouse. I like it better than the deathadder shape and weight wise.


----------



## rugi

So the private release deadline is this Wednesday. Will Scream switch then? Do they really have the mouse out in production now? If not its likely the July date is also nonsense if they can't make this date.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> So the private release deadline is this Wednesday. Will Scream switch then? Do they really have the mouse out in production now? If not its likely the July date is also nonsense if they can't make this date.


Here's the twist. The ScreamOne doesn't actually exist. Neither does FinalMouse. It's all a construct of our imaginations in the quest to find the perfect mouse.


----------



## Maximillion

Anyone remember when Scream originally revealed that fake Scream One on stream? Good times. In all honesty I'd be surprised if he's even touched a finalized (no pun intended) unit of the product at the time of this post.


----------



## Venrar

You guys are so hard on this company, for taking their time. It's weird to me. At least. At the very least, their clicks don't feel like garbage. And if the sensor is even a fraction as good as the logitech ones. It's gona be my mouse of choice. Simply because shape and clicks are one of the most important parts of implementation. I guess as long as I don't get glaucoma from the LED.


----------



## a_ak57

Are you actually familiar with their history? They've been deceptive and have outright lied a number of times and that's not even just in reference to the scream one release date. They _still_ knowingly falsely advertise the weight of their mice, months and months after it was pointed out several times and they even acknowledged it and said they'd correct it. if anything we treat them too well by still discussing their sorry butts and letting people know about them.


----------



## Venrar

Listen, I'm on my third RMA for my G303. I've had to submit 2+ RMA requests each time because the agent I've talked too has mishandled the support request. I have a g502 where the mouse wheel moves so much it sounds like a baby rattle when I move it. I've got a mionix castor with click latency almost as bad as a rocket launch to the moon. The KPM had a DPI shift bug forever. Most of the razor mice are unusable, the software they force you to use makes the mouse inaccurate. And this company lies about the weight, and that's the hill you pick to die on?

Even if you get a faulty model. Even if it's defective, you don't like it, whatever. The return process from amazon is going to be leagues ahead of whatever you get from buying direct from any other mouse manufacturer. And If you're going to tell me the build quality is any worse. Well, I'm not really convinced that it is. I have a classic ergo. It's not that bad.


----------



## Bucake

people are hard on FM because of their consistent non-professional attitude, not just because they lied or because they're late.


----------



## Venrar

I couldn't care. Do they make mice that work? Are the clicks OK? Is the shape OK? So they need a PR firm, agent, whatever, what's it to me? All I wanna do is play games.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> people are hard on FM because of their consistent non-professional attitude, not just because they lied or because they're late.


i'd say that the latter two directly contribute to the former


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> [ And If you're going to tell me the build quality is any worse. Well, I'm not really convinced that it is. I have a classic ergo. It's not that bad.


Is there any other mouse that went through 3 revisions for the same product? Same sensor, shape, firmware?

How does that not convince you that the build quality is bad? It convinced FM to change it so many times, we don't need to go any further than that. Don't be surprised if yoru FM starts bugging out couple of months later.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> I couldn't Care. Do they make mice that work? Are the clicks OK? Is the shape OK? So they need a PR firm, agent, whatever, what's it to me? All I wanna do is play games.


I mean, it's not just a matter of PR because their products aren't perfect either. Build quality so bad they released several iterations trying to address it (failing each time) and extra MCU smoothing (that they completely denied existed, then later said was intentional because pros like it, then later said was a problem they'd fix







).


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Is there any other mouse that went through 3 revisions for the same product? Same sensor, shape, firmware?
> 
> How does that not convince you that the build quality is bad? It convinced FM to change it so many times, we don't need to go any further than that. Don't be surprised if yoru FM starts bugging out couple of months later.


Zowie. Omrons back to huanos. Quality control issues. The stiffest, most god, awful clicks on the MAJORITY of their mice. G302, to g303. You change the sensor, now the thing rattles, before what were people saying, it tilted because of a bad design, I don't remember. A firmware update on my g502 made it so the sensor calibration caused my mouse to skip. I thought it broke for a while until I looked it up. A little bit of mcu smoothing -- what about a year where you have your mouse changing dpi with liftoff like roccat. Months with garbage click latency. There's a thread on the front page of reddit where Roccat RMA up and took a guys hardware and refuse to answer his emails. I mean, what, you had to hobble out into the daylight and UPS the thing back to amazon. What a horrible inconvenience. I'm sitting here, it's been weeks, WEEKS. The g303 RMA just shipped yesterday. I think it's telling that this small companies pushing improved iterations of their mice, or trying to, while everyone else is going, yeah we could fix the stiff clicks or the sensor rattle, but nahhhh, here's the same mouse but with a different logo, or a new color. And I don't even use the thing. You guys just have me on tilt.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> Zowie. Omrons back to huanos. Quality control issues. The stiffest, most god, awful clicks on the MAJORITY of their mice. G302, to g303. You change the sensor, now the thing rattles, before what were people saying, it tilted because of a bad design, I don't remember. A firmware update on my g502 made it so the sensor calibration caused my mouse to skip. I thought it broke for a while until I looked it up. A little bit of mcu smoothing -- what about a year where you have your mouse changing dpi with liftoff like roccat. Months with garbage click latency. There's a thread on the front page of reddit where Roccat RMA up and took a guys hardware and refuse to answer his emails. I mean, what, you had to hobble out into the daylight and UPS the thing back to amazon. What a horrible inconvenience. I'm sitting here, it's been weeks, WEEKS. The g303 RMA just shipped yesterday. I think it's telling that this small companies pushing improved iterations of their mice, or trying to, while everyone else is going, yeah we could fix the stiff clicks or the sensor rattle, but nahhhh, here's the same mouse but with a different logo, or a new color. And I don't even use the thing. You guys just have me on tilt.


Congratulations, you listed all the same reasons that the OCN community criticizes in their respective threads. FM shouldn't get special treatment either.

Btw, the MCU smoothing issue was more about their lie and not the actual smoothing. There's many mice available that has some smoothing or even acceleration, but people still love it and no one comes up and say no they are wrong.

Edit: Actually I feel bad for labeling that as a lie, they weren't aware of it themselves because they ODM told them there wasn't any smoothing and FM was being a parrot.


----------



## Maximillion

_ODM: This is the part they don't see._


----------



## Nivity

I still await this mouse ;/
There just is no another mouse out there.
All I want is a 3360, low weight, normal ambidextrous and omron.

Hell there are not even many options for that with 3310 sensor.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Congratulations, you listed all the same reasons that the OCN community criticizes in their respective threads. FM shouldn't get special treatment either.
> 
> Btw, the MCU smoothing issue was more about their lie and not the actual smoothing. There's many mice available that has some smoothing or even acceleration, but people still love it and no one comes up and say no they are wrong.
> 
> Edit: Actually I feel bad for labeling that as a lie, they weren't aware of it themselves because they ODM told them there wasn't any smoothing and FM was being a parrot.


Don't feel bad, Jude spent some time damage controlling the smoothing saying it was there because that's how their pros like it.


----------



## frunction

So we should start seeing reviews this Wednesday 6/15?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> So we should start seeing reviews this Wednesday 6/15?


Hopefully not, you wouldn't want a review from one day usage, would be unreliable... I think 2-3 weeks of heavy usage is a good indicator


----------



## qsxcv

doubt it


----------



## Dergless

I'd like to at least see some solid day 1 reviews that assess click latency, perfect control speed, weight etc...


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Hopefully not, you wouldn't want a review from one day usage, would be unreliable... I think 2-3 weeks of heavy usage is a good indicator


AFAIK reviewers usually receive the products before they are released so they can write reviews and release them on the release day.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> All I want is a 3360, low weight, normal ambidextrous and omron.


Too bad they were going to use the Japanese Omrons and decided to use the Chinese Omrons instead. They probably aren't using an ALPS encoder either! Yet the price is still very high.


----------



## zeflow

Along with all the other bs they've fed us the past 6 months..


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> So we should start seeing reviews this Wednesday 6/15?


Finalmouse's Twitter on the 15th



They probably hope everyone forgot


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

No, but cancer reviewers are starting to receive Feenix Vitesse review samples.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> All I want is a 3360, low weight, normal ambidextrous and omron.
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they were going to use the Japanese Omrons and decided to use the Chinese Omrons instead. They probably aren't using an ALPS encoder either! Yet the price is still very high.
Click to expand...

PROFIT is what matters here. Sell it HIGH and provide the Lowest Quality, Secret to making a fortune in the Mouse Market these days.

Some dodgy manufacturers follow this incentive because it's allowed and cherished by everyone out there.

They are almost never punished for doing this type of despicable behaviour due to nearly every company doing the same thing of selling garbage at high cost but offering little worth to the end user.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Too bad they were going to use the Japanese Omrons and decided to use the Chinese Omrons instead. They probably aren't using an ALPS encoder either! Yet the price is still very high.


Every cent saved on a mouse in a 100,000 mouse batch puts 1000$ in your pocket. Money, nonetheless. Plus nothing guarantees Japanese switches aren't gonna break or last longer - German Cherries (DG series) break fast AF (due to low rating, I assume).

And those ALPS are more trouble than outcome, as they require a robust sub-micrometer precise housing. Have been endlessly trying to fit one with small plastic arches of various designs. As I lack factory equipment, to no avail - it's either too much friction or too much rattle. No wonder only one company managed to implement it properly and make a distinguished feature out of it (although I hear CM managed to fix the rattle on their Recons after all).


----------



## qsxcv

>sub-micrometer
i'm not sure you're aware of what you're talking about


----------



## granitov

'Cuz just sub-millimeter doesn't do the trick.


----------



## frunction

millimeter peter eater?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> Every cent saved on a mouse in a 100,000 mouse batch puts 1000$ in your pocket. Money, nonetheless. Plus nothing guarantees Japanese switches aren't gonna break or last longer - German Cherries (DG series) break fast AF (due to low rating, I assume).
> 
> And those ALPS are more trouble than outcome, as they require a robust sub-micrometer precise housing. Have been endlessly trying to fit one with small plastic arches of various designs. As I lack factory equipment, to no avail - it's either too much friction or too much rattle. No wonder only one company managed to implement it properly and make a distinguished feature out of it (although I hear CM managed to fix the rattle on their Recons after all).


Japanese Omrons switches have better feedback than the Chinese versions due to the design. The metals are of higher quality as well. I'm not sure the sorting/tolerance is better with the Japanese Omrons.

Doesn't the Roccat mice and the Secret use the ALPS encoder? Do a bunch of people complain about it? The design of the encoder is the same as the cheaper Chinese encoders that are used in majority of mice.

If you are going to charge ~$80 for a non wireless mouse it better have something of quality or superior performing components. Other companies are going to offer the same, if not better, products at $60 or less.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Doesn't the Roccat mice and the Secret use the ALPS encoder? Do a bunch of people complain about it? The design of the encoder is the same as the cheaper Chinese encoders that are used in majority of mice.


While I haven't info on Ducky, Roccat's implementation is indeed decent. It's the higher resistance of the encoder that requires a precise housing, otherwise it would cause rattle. Haven't seen much praise on CM Recon and SS Sensei wheels, although they, too, use ALPS.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> While I haven't info on Ducky, Roccat's implementation is indeed decent. It's the higher resistance of the encoder that requires a precise housing, otherwise it would cause rattle. Haven't seen much praise on CM Recon and SS Sensei wheels, although they, too, use ALPS.


I thought the Sensei had the typical Chinese encoder.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I thought the Sensei had the typical Chinese encoder.


New RAW (2nd gen) has a TTC black encoder. All the rest (original, 1st gen RAW, wireless) have ALPS.


----------



## rugi

Today's the big day boys. Will Jude and FM pull through with the pre-release production?


----------



## buckwheat

When do you think the FM Tourney Pro will be available to order from Amazon? Early Noon Late Day? Haha. I am just excited. Today is the big day. LOL


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Hello,

Samples of the Scream One will begin to trickle in this week and next. When I have spares I will be arranging for them to be sent to select community members who contacted me some time ago. My goal is to make sure atleast a few experienced ocn'ers have samples before release. I will do my best to get these as soon as I can.

Kind Regards,
Jude


----------



## Jaju123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Samples of the Scream One will begin to trickle in this week and next. When I have spares I will be arranging for them to be sent to select community members who contacted me some time ago. My goal is to make sure atleast a few experienced ocn'ers have samples before release. I will do my best to get these as soon as I can.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Jude


So purchasing availability is still a ways off if sampling is only occurring now?


----------



## coolwert

can I have a spare sample too ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## RealSteelH6

So where is the Tournament Pro?


----------



## Dergless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaju123*
> 
> So purchasing availability is still a ways off if sampling is only occurring now?


July 10th is the public release date.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Samples of the Scream One will begin to trickle in this week and next. When I have spares I will be arranging for them to be sent to select community members who contacted me some time ago. My goal is to make sure atleast a few experienced ocn'ers have samples before release. I will do my best to get these as soon as I can.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Jude


m8 uve been sayin this for like 6months


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> m8 uve been sayin this for like 6months


Well, this time around they aren't kicking the can further down the road. From the sounds of it they're committing to this July 10 deadline; if they needed to delay it they would have announced it today I think


----------



## FinalmouseJude

It is no secret that the scream one development has taken longer than we expected. Keeping pace with our own schedule has been tricky. However the end goals remain the same and we look forward to receiving community feedback on the mouse.


----------



## reddy89

Weren't the Tournament Pros supposed to be released today?


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> Weren't the Tournament Pros supposed to be released today?


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*


Yes I have been waiting to purchase from Amazon since early this morning. Starting to think that date was just an empty promise.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Yes I have been waiting to purchase from Amazon since early this morning. Starting to think that date was just an empty promise.


Still got a lot of hours left in the golden state


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Still got a lot of hours left in the golden state


I hope so! I really want this mouse. I have had the Ergo since the first release and I actually really like the mouse. I'm really excited to try the tournament Pro


----------



## frunction

Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?


I suppose for some the 3310 is good enough for them and they also don't want a blue mouse with scream written on it but that's just a guess


----------



## espgodson

can finalmouse just give me a scream one i've converted so many people to use them and bought a lot of them and todays my birthday i think i deserve it xd


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?


A 3310 with 500hz is completely fine, they'd do it for the shape and I assume slightly lower price.. it's basically an improved zowie which is fine in tournament play


----------



## john88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose for some the 3310 is good enough for them and they also don't want a blue mouse with scream written on it but that's just a guess
Click to expand...

I am one of those. I can deal with the blue color, but the scream signature i cannot haha.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ncck

When godson makes it to OCN you know we've been stream lined

On topic note, the tp should be appearing on websites soon/tomorrow per region according to their Twitter

Edit: bummer appears the s1 will use a braided cable, any way to get one with a rubber cable.. say special order in the future?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Ayyyy another flubbed release by finaldelaymouse


----------



## rugi

I am a little worried.. they didn't say anything yet about sticking to the 7/10 date.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> I am a little worried.. they didn't say anything yet about sticking to the 7/10 date.


I wouldn't count on it, given their history.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It is no secret that the scream one development has taken longer than we expected. Keeping pace with our own schedule has been tricky. However the end goals remain the same and we look forward to receiving community feedback on the mouse.


which is why companies don't announce things or give dates prematurely...


----------



## invena

I contacted FM back in may to inquire about the polling rate of the mouse & press samples/release info:

They responded with this:
"The Scream1 will be locked at 1000Hz however there may be a 500Hz option however this is not certain at this time."

I'm guessing they will probably offer variants later down the line with rubber cables/ diff hz.

As for the release, we can only wait.


----------



## Poodle

What mouse scream is using now? ergo or tournament pro?


----------



## invena

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> What mouse scream is using now? ergo or tournament pro?


He is using an Ergo @ 500hz on a QCK Heavy mousepad.

Personally, I feel like like when there is more detail in the mousepad or a tighter weave,1000hz feels better. 1000hz on an artisan mousepad is awesome. I feel like the QCK is doen't have too much detail in the pad and thus 500hz feels better to me on that pad. Additionally, some sensors malfunction at 1000hz when swiping fast.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?


Like others have said, personally I am fine with the sensor as is. I own the first iteration of the ergo and actually love it. I am just tired of waiting and wanna buy the TP now. I don't mind the blue on the S1 but not a fan of the Scream signature. But knowing the S1 is 1000hz instead of 500hz like the TP, I have waited this long and will probably have to wait longer, maybe I will wait for the S1. If it really is THAT much better.

As far as the cable goes. I have changed my cable on the Ergo by removing the shell and using a nice flimsy cable I bought off a user here who makes his own cables. So there is that easy cheap option if you do not like the stock cable.

But why release a bunch of release dates that are totally bogus. You have people like me who wait all day refreshing just to be disappointing. I swear if this mouse wasn't 74 or 76 whatever grams I would buy another mouse.


----------



## invena

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just asking, why buy this when improved version comes out less than a month later?
> 
> 
> 
> Like others have said, personally I am fine with the sensor as is. I own the first iteration of the ergo and actually love it. I am just tired of waiting and wanna buy the TP now. I don't mind the blue on the S1 but not a fan of the Scream signature. But knowing the S1 is 1000hz instead of 500hz like the TP, I have waited this long and will probably have to wait longer, maybe I will wait for the S1. If it really is THAT much better.
> 
> As far as the cable goes. I have changed my cable on the Ergo by removing the shell and using a nice flimsy cable I bought off a user here who makes his own cables. So there is that easy cheap option if you do not like the stock cable.
> 
> But why release a bunch of release dates that are totally bogus. You have people like me who wait all day refreshing just to be disappointing. I swear if this mouse wasn't 74 or 76 whatever grams I would buy another mouse.
Click to expand...





I've been using a g303 and the shape is god awful. I bought the first iteration of the ergo when I heard about the s1. I decided to sell my ergo, and wait for the S1... I've been waiting for like 6 months! We've all been waiting forever haha.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invena*
> 
> 
> I've been using a g303 and the shape is god awful. I bought the first iteration of the ergo when I heard about the s1. I decided to sell my ergo, and wait for the S1... I've been waiting for like 6 months! We've all been waiting forever haha.


Dude, you are so right the shape of the 303 is so so bad lol. I don't even care about the S1 I just want the new design. So I will take the Tournament Pro.


----------



## muso

Lets just wait till we get the first couple reviews in from some trusted members in before we go nuts. Yes the delays are awful but if they've just handed us a near perfect mouse it may all be worth it.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Samples of the Scream One will begin to trickle in this week and next. When I have spares I will be arranging for them to be sent to select community members who contacted me some time ago. My goal is to make sure atleast a few experienced ocn'ers have samples before release. I will do my best to get these as soon as I can.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Jude


Well hopefully you have bought an advertising package or those members will have to pay to post about it here.


----------



## Luxer

Still no Tournament Pro on Amazon.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Npe not even something like "in stock but requires 1-2 days to process" or whatever. I don't even think amazon has any right now lol


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invena*
> 
> He is using an Ergo @ 500hz on a QCK Heavy mousepad.
> 
> Personally, I feel like like when there is more detail in the mousepad or a tighter weave,1000hz feels better. 1000hz on an artisan mousepad is awesome. I feel like the QCK is doen't have too much detail in the pad and thus 500hz feels better to me on that pad. Additionally, some sensors malfunction at 1000hz when swiping fast.


Could that be possible? I've only used 500hz once and I do recall it feeling absolutely fine but always stuck to 1000hz cause I figured more responsive is better. I mean QCK heavy is so consistent in terms of a mouse pad probably moreso than any other cloth.. I'll have to give that a shot next mouse I get


----------



## coldc0ffee

I prefer 500Hz myself as I feel like 1000Hz is a little more inaccurate. And when I use mouse tester it usually is besides on the 3366 sensor. Making small adjustments is more comfortable on 500Hz for me because small adjustments on 1000 feels "slippery".


----------



## PU skunk

Please Finalmouse include that 500hz option.


----------



## qsxcv

please include 667hz. best of both worlds


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> please include 667hz. best of both worlds


666Hz would be more fitting.


----------



## Bucake

maybe asus could help them out on the polling department


----------



## frunction

https://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=785099


----------



## RealSteelH6

This is the new Duke Nukem Forever


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> This is the new Duke Nukem Forever


So who is going to take over Finalmouse and release an unfinished and outdated mouse in 10 years from now?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Lol they still haven't released the TP se... Nor have they updated as to why they missed the release date. I feel bad for those who were looking to purchase one


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> and we look forward to receiving community feedback on the mouse.


hope you like it rough.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Lol they still haven't released the TP se... Nor have they updated as to why they missed the release date. I feel bad for those who were looking to purchase one


They shipped it to their web shops, when they arrive they will be listed


----------



## RealSteelH6




----------



## Bucake

ah, it hovers? i guess that's what they're working on


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They shipped it to their web shops, when they arrive they will be listed


----------



## Maximillion

Don't worry guys, this is all the more reason to wait for the July 10th release of the Scream One


----------



## Zhuni

They're trolling they only made "one" and it's for "Scream"


----------



## Vantavia

Bonus nachos:
Hey Jude, don't make it bad
Take a scream one and make it better

(I should totally get a free scream one for this







)


----------



## Oeshon

Scream is taking his frustration to the gym. He is getting bigger and bigger.

Don't delay it much longer FM, or Scream is gonna get so buff it might effect his aim and ruin your shtick.


----------



## Nilizum

Well that Nixeus mouse is coming out anyways. GG Finalmouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Well that Nixeus mouse is coming out anyways. GG Finalmouse.


Lol if it drops before fm that would be an absolute tragedy for them. We'll see how long it takes Nixeus to drop. Looks line it will be quite soon though.


----------



## aayman_farzand

We have very little details about the Nixeus IMO. FM has shown consideration for click feel, button latency etc whereas all we know about the Nixeus is the shape and sensor.

We should know soon enough though.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Well that Nixeus mouse is coming out anyways. GG Finalmouse.


Well we don't know sensor position on the Revel just yet. Here's hoping it's not terrible.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> We have very little details about the Nixeus IMO. FM has shown consideration for click feel, button latency etc whereas all we know about the Nixeus is the shape and sensor.
> 
> We should know soon enough though.


They have 'talked' about stuff, we have no clue at all how the click feel is, we have no idea how the mouse will truly truly be. They have had TONS of QC issues. What has FM really showed us of the mouse? Screams fake? Lol the same images over & over? I mean it is just the TP shell. So we know what the mouse will look like & plenty know how the mouse feels since we have had reviews.

The Scream is supposed to have some 'special sauce' they worked on from 'the ground up'. Dates have been missed, lies have been told & hopes have been up. Yet we have NOTHING from them. The TP was to be dropped again on 6/15. Yet people who have been waiting are yet again stood up. It's ridiculous.

Nixeus has showed us pics of the Revel mouse, & are doing a giveaway as well as took info & concerns from here & talked with the community. FM beats around the same bush more than George W.

Nixeus is coming with a Light weight mouse, rubber cord, the sensor everyone wants in every shell, & a shape sooooooo got dang many have asked steelseries to update Yet they flip us the bird more than Eminem. Give Nixeus a little credit, or the benefit of the doubt until they blow it. Nixeus may still fail in the mouse game, but they are trying from what i see. I use to really like FM, had high hopes. I still may try the Scream(not sure). However they talk & talk & talk with what proof? If you talk the talk, walk the walk.


----------



## ncck

S1 needs to ditch the braided cable before I'm willing to try it.. the drag is so obnoxious

Waiting for both, I think revel will release first


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Give Nixeus a little credit, or the benefit of the doubt until they blow it.


Never said I wouldn't. FM has taught me how to be patient about releases.

Nixeus is doing this right, no solid dates and they are managing expectations well.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Nixeus is coming with a Light weight mouse, rubber cord, the sensor everyone wants in every shell, & a shape sooooooo got dang many have asked steelseries to update Yet they flip us the bird more than Eminem. Give Nixeus a little credit, or the benefit of the doubt until they blow it. Nixeus may still fail in the mouse game, but they are trying from what i see. I use to really like FM, had high hopes. I still may try the Scream(not sure). However they talk & talk & talk with what proof? If you talk the talk, walk the walk.


85g for only 2 side buttons makes the Revel a little heavier than it should be for a 3360 mouse.


----------



## CorruptBE

Yeah but it looks like the Revel is going to be RELEASED.

Cough*


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Never said I wouldn't. FM has taught me how to be patient about releases.
> 
> Nixeus is doing this right, no solid dates and they are managing expectations well.


Learning patience is one thing. Being led on & lied to more than the goverment does it's citizens & having no choice but to wait is a different thing.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 85g for only 2 side buttons makes the Revel a little heavier than it should be for a 3360 mouse.


It's still light. Which was the point i made, simple. Could it be lighter? Of course. Still at a solid spot where it is.

It was said that you can add weight when you order correct? Doesn't that mean brackets or internals rather than can hold more weight, can be removed to drop extra slack?


----------



## chr1spe

Isn't that the same weight as the TP? I would assume the Scream1 is going to be the same weight until I see it on a scale in a review. That is unless the Nixeus actually weighs more than its stated weight as well.


----------



## speedyeggtart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Isn't that the same weight as the TP? I would assume the Scream1 is going to be the same weight until I see it on a scale in a review. That is unless the Nixeus actually weighs more than its stated weight as well.


They actually showed the mouse on a food scale showing the weight in one of the mouse threads.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedyeggtart*
> 
> They actually showed the mouse on a food scale showing the weight in one of the mouse threads.


The Nixeus or the FM TP? I've seen the TP and its actual weight is 88g IIRC.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The Nixeus or the FM TP? I've seen the TP and its actual weight is 88g IIRC.


Nixeus showed it, you can check both picks here, just hit the arrow to look at the previous pic.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1600694/lightbox/post/25257711/id/2807531


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> Well we don't know sensor position on the Revel just yet. Here's hoping it's not terrible.


The Coolermaster MasterMouse will probably pioneer the best mice to date since they actually have a sensor position slider where users can adjust to their liking. The Nixeus mouse in the 125mm length range should be pretty good if they they put the sensor position in the middle.


----------



## ramraze

I can't believe this brand is still talked about. I can't believe people still write to this thread







it's only an entertainment thread now.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Nixeus showed it, you can check both picks here, just hit the arrow to look at the previous pic.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1600694/lightbox/post/25257711/id/2807531


So it is very slightly lighter than the TP and probably the S1. I guess the lightest 3360 mouse is still too heavy though. For me at least <100g is fine and I like smaller mice than both the S1 and the Nixeus so they should be able to be lighter and also feel a bit heavier even at the same weight probably.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> The Coolermaster MasterMouse will probably pioneer the best mice to date since they actually have a sensor position slider where users can adjust to their liking. The Nixeus mouse in the 125mm length range should be pretty good if they they put the sensor position in the middle.


The Mastermouse will Shaq at the freethrow.

Sensor position changing is a nice feature though.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @logicsgo @finalmouse they told me at the *end of July* in the Customer support emails
> 
> - Alex Kam (@astra_g_cs)
> 
> 
> 
> June 20, 2016
Click to expand...

unexpected


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For ppl waiting on the TP we apologize for delay in retailer availability. We are working to make sure they are up for purchase within June
> 
> - Finalmouse (@finalmouse)
> 
> 
> 
> June 20, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @finalmouse news on the scream one? is it still coming 10th of july?
> 
> - Logic =D (@logicsgo)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> June 20, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @logicsgo @finalmouse they told me at the *end of July* in the Customer support emails
> 
> - Alex Kam (@astra_g_cs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> June 20, 2016
Click to expand...

Unreal. I'm done with these clowns man


----------



## Maximillion




----------



## ralloff

The only explanation for these delays is that they are working on a mouse that also provides fellatio. "Scream one" taking on a new meaning.

Godspeed, Jude! "Fine tuning" the things that matter.


----------



## ncck

They should just say it's delayed and not offer any type of date, just leave it as coming soon and when it's actually ready make an announcement cause it's damaging at this point


----------



## Bucake

with some luck they'll actually learn from this


----------



## a_ak57

Fool me 48 times shame on me?


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> with some luck they'll actually learn from this


Just like the last 5-6 times theyve announced a false date? I can't deal with it man. Thank god for the Nixeus mouse and the DM1 Pro 3366 in the works.


----------



## P54J

I just hope whenever it becomes available, it will be available for NA & EU at the same time, without NA exclusiveness shenanigans (no offence). EU is as big if not bigger market than NA. To top all of that, it would be great if they would make it without stock shortages etc. Delay with stock after release, imagine that.


----------



## muso




----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It is no secret that the scream one development has taken longer than we expected.


here's a tip: don't tell us how long you expect something to take if you're not completely sure. you're not doing anyone a favor by popping in here/twitter every single month and promising things will be ready the next month.


----------



## rugi




----------



## coldc0ffee

Ok, I can understand some short-comings and modification work within the logistics of a smaller firm. Generally newer companies go through a phase of ironing out faults in their logistical processes; which is why larger companies seem more "streamlined" when it comes to production and distribution. That said, hot dang finalmouse really isn't doing well especially with their PR. Tsk tsk


----------



## Aventadoor

Guys...
Its actually BST who's behind Finalmouse!


----------



## qsxcv

how the hell is the aurora still available on amazon?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> how the hell is the aurora still available on amazon?


Why not, if FinalMouse can be listed there BST's should as well.


----------



## dutC4

It blows my mind that Finalmouse thinks it's okay to announce half a dozen release dates and miss them all, and with mostly nothing on their Twitter and website as to why it happened or what to expect each time. They are getting farther and farther away from their promo with Scream that was incredibly popular (even if it was mostly made fun of) and as a result I think they have lost a lot of their potential sales because all the hype has died and there should be other decent 3360 mice on the market or on the horizon if the end of July is to be believed. And with their release date nonsense, knowledgeable people aren't going to want to buy their mice because if they can't fix this incredibly basic marketing problem, how could you trust them to have fixed all their QA problems? They would have better sales and rep if they made the damn mouse and *really* finalized it before announcing a release date and putting out what I expect is their only real advertising material. On one hand I hope they learned a lot and it defies all odds and is a great mouse, but on the other, I hope it's complete garbage that gets little attention from its target audience because that's what FM deserves for this nonsense.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutC4*
> 
> It blows my mind that Finalmouse thinks it's okay to announce half a dozen release dates and miss them all, and with mostly nothing on their Twitter and website as to why it happened or what to expect each time. They are getting farther and farther away from their promo with Scream that was incredibly popular (even if it was mostly made fun of) and as a result I think they have lost a lot of their potential sales because all the hype has died and there should be other decent 3360 mice on the market or on the horizon if the end of July is to be believed. And with their release date nonsense, knowledgeable people aren't going to want to buy their mice because if they can't fix this incredibly basic marketing problem, how could you trust them to have fixed all their QA problems? They would have better sales and rep if they made the damn mouse and *really* finalized it before announcing a release date and putting out what I expect is their only real advertising material. On one hand I hope they learned a lot and it defies all odds and is a great mouse, but on the other, I hope it's complete garbage that gets little attention from its target audience because that's what FM deserves for this nonsense.


Unfortunately no matter how bad the mouse is and how many better mice there are it will probably be hailed on reddit as a great mouse because it doesn't have software. I can't even begin to tell you how many people have told me that the only way to get a "raw" feeling mouse is to get one that doesn't have any (optional) software. Hype sells more than actual good products. Also their advertising was brilliant whether or not it was intended. By making their add in to a meme the mouse got so much advertising it is unreal.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I can't even begin to tell you how many people have told me that the only way to get a "raw" feeling mouse is to get one that doesn't have any (optional) software. Hype sells more than actual good products. Also their advertising was brilliant whether or not it was intended. By making their add in to a meme the mouse got so much advertising it is unreal.


Of course you've still got Zowie that sell nothing but "Software Free" mice, so FM is wasting everyone's time on this aspect







.


----------



## trhead

How bout a shox mouse?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> How bout a shox mouse?


Don't give them excuses to delay release for a rebrand.


----------



## P54J

People, S1 is releasing in 12 days! I wonder if Amazon will let me pre-order before release date. To Europe.


----------



## a_ak57

FM already said that the S1 has been delayed until the end of July now. But given that the TP still isn't available yet even though that was supposed to be on the 15th, I imagine we're looking at August at best for the S1. It's really just best to pretend the thing doesn't even exist until amazon is actually shipping the things out to people.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P54J*
> 
> People, S1 is releasing in 12 days!


my lungs


----------



## coldc0ffee

Hopefully this releases at the same time as Logi's new mouse. Just to kick FM in the face a little more.


----------



## daunow

You mean to tell me this mouse has still not come out...


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Hopefully this releases at the same time as Logi's new mouse. Just to kick FM in the face a little more.


pretty much this. i cant see how they will be able to compete if the new logi mouse is everything everyone thinks it will be.

not to mention the quality per price i paid when i received my tournament pro left a really bad taste in my mouth. my classic ergo was fine though.


----------



## frunction

So uh, where's the tournament edition even?


----------



## coldc0ffee




----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> So uh, where's the tournament edition even?


Replaced by Scream One probably.


----------



## Ihateallmice

TP was never anything other than a S1 beta test. There's no reason to release it now that they're making the same mouse but better in every way given the horrible reception TP got... well except for their ridiculous release dates. but given that probably half of their TP got sent back including mine, there really just is no good reason to ''fix it'' when they can just skip TP and release a single mouse properly for once.


----------



## Evovil

Is this confirmed or just a theory you have?


----------



## Ihateallmice

I mean it's obvious ain't it? They're releasing 2 mice with identical shells, and the only reason they're releasing 1 first is because they took what they had in their first garbo mouse and transplanted it into the new shell to beta test the shell. If you followed the development, you'd know their first mouse had a million problems with shell and button design (not that they had much to do with that, but they claim to be tweaking it every new release like summer release, 2016 release, etc). So after having all these returns and complaints about thier first mouse, they threw out TP with so many quality control problems that it shows they knew full well it wasn't fit for a proper release, but why should they QA test it when they can get their fans to? So after they got all the feedback and complaints, they unlisted the mouse on amazon and haven't said a true word since. So tell me, what purpose does this mouse serve other than testing the shell? The internals are the same **** as their other, there's no need for them to test their 3310 with 500hz, it's been done. All they did with TP was get feedback, unlist it and then transfer that feedback into S1.

The only way TP will see the light of day is if it comes with 3360. If not then it will have no reason to exist. S1 is coming shortly after its supposed release (I mean according to them, but all that's lies going by the dates they set), so why would anyone in their right mind not wait a couple of weeks for a proper 3360 1000hz in the same shell instead of going for the 3310 500hz? With TP they learned the LED was bonkers, the buttons were broken, the quality wasn't up to par in general, but the shell itself was praised. Plus they lied about the weight, which they then claim will be reduced in Scream 1, so again, why would anyone bother with TP? It's inferior in every way and no longer has the ''but it's released early'' angle going for it.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Someone on reddit once confirmed that the TP was being replaced with the S1 but then they announced the TP release date after that happened.

He heard about it while doing a TP RMA. Some actual facts would be great at this point...


----------



## jung1e

Didn't Scream talk about using this mouse after the last major or something after he revealed it on stream but he's still been using the FM Ergo. Funny how he's not using his own mouse, it makes me wonder if he prefers the Ergo shape over the TP/S1 Shape.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Didn't Scream talk about using this mouse after the last major or something after he revealed it on stream but he's still been using the FM Ergo. Funny how he's not using his own mouse, it makes me wonder if he prefers the Ergo shape over the TP/S1 Shape.


It's difficult to use a mouse that doesn't actually exist in production. They gave him an empty shell to show off on stream with no internals done


----------



## ncck

Judging by how well he's performing he's probably not going to swap anytime soon or at all


----------



## Luxer

I think it's just because of how finicky Counter-Strike has always been with how you aim; you're always on the razor's edge of hitting or missing with the recoil system. If you change your mouse it takes a lot of practice to get back to where you were.

I can't really use the Ergo for cs because of how big the thumb imprint is, it changes the way I aim with my wrist. I really want to try the TE because it looks really similar to the sensei but with the finger indentations of the deathadder.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Didn't Scream talk about using this mouse after the last major or something after he revealed it on stream but he's still been using the FM Ergo. Funny how he's not using his own mouse, it makes me wonder if he prefers the Ergo shape over the TP/S1 Shape.


Afaik scream has normally used ergo mice.

The real reason he isn't using it if probably this though
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> It's difficult to use a mouse that doesn't actually exist in production. They gave him an empty shell to show off on stream with no internals done


----------



## Maximillion

So wait...multiple pro players are using a new, unannounced Logitech mouse (in competition) that has us giddy with anticipation while Scream STILL isn't using the mouse with his namesake slapped over it?









Here's a nice little brain teaser. What will happen first, we see Scream using a S1 in competition or the S1 becomes available for consumer purchase?


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> So wait...multiple pro players are using a new, unannounced Logitech mouse (in competition) that has us giddy with anticipation while Scream STILL isn't using the mouse with his namesake slapped over it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a nice little brain teaser. What will happen first, we see Scream using a S1 in competition or the S1 becomes available for consumer purchase?


The major is right around the corner. He won't switch mice until after that assuming he switches at all. Although I do think that this notion that because his name is on it he absolutely must use it is a bit silly.


----------



## a_ak57

I mean, it's also a bit silly to plaster your giant signature on a mouse named after you when you don't think it's worth using.


----------



## Bucake

money and fame boi


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Judging by how well he's performing he's probably not going to swap anytime soon or at all


From the stream, he made it sound like he had a working one or at least started prototyping but that would make sense if it was just an empty shell.


----------



## aayman_farzand

"The Scream1 is undergoing production and we have ran into a few delays. These delays have been caused by a meticulous production process that we underestimated. We are striving for nothing short of perfection with these units. As a result, we apologize for the delays -- we expect the Scream1 to be available *mid-late August* at this time however this is solely tentative."

This thread needs to be locked.


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The Scream1 is undergoing production and we have ran into a few delays. These delays have been caused by a meticulous production process that we underestimated. We are striving for nothing short of perfection with these units. As a result, we apologize for the delays -- we expect the Scream1 to be available *mid-late August* at this time however this is solely tentative."
> 
> This thread needs to be locked.


Lol, just shameful. Thank god for the Nixeus


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> This thread needs to be locked.


If it does happen, there will always be the Nixeus Revel. That'll be the next car crash to laugh about.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> If it does happen, there will always be the Nixeus Revel. That'll be the next car crash to laugh about.


If the mouse is bad yea. I doubt it. It's close to being released already.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The Scream1 is undergoing production and we have ran into a few delays. These delays have been caused by a meticulous production process that we underestimated. We are striving for nothing short of perfection with these units. As a result, we apologize for the delays -- we expect the Scream1 to be available *mid-late August* at this time however this is solely tentative."
> 
> This thread needs to be locked.


BST 2.0!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> If the mouse is bad yea. I doubt it. It's close to being released already.


BST 3.0?


----------



## Maximillion

I see they gave up on the whole exact date thing. Smart move. They still messed up by providing a month, but I guess that's a feeble attempt to make people believe this mouse isn't actually vaporware. I expect the next delay announcement to be something along the lines of "4th Qtr" or "Winter '16".


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The Scream1 is undergoing production and we have ran into a few delays. These delays have been caused by a meticulous production process that we underestimated. We are striving for nothing short of perfection with these units. As a result, we apologize for the delays -- we expect the Scream1 to be available *mid-late August* at this time however this is solely tentative."
> 
> This thread needs to be locked.


haha, so sad


----------



## qsxcv

http://www.strawpoll.me/10634543


----------



## muso

/lock thread.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> lock thread


should've been an option in the poll


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## ncck

It lives.. and it has a braided cable ?

Hopefully they follow through on those custom orders and allow people to buy rubber!

Damn it I'm addicted I'm going to buy everything


----------



## Alya

FinalStraw with another delay and some braided cables. Wew lad.


----------



## Evovil

Have a Paracord cable ready to go. Hopefully it uses the connector I have lol.


----------



## a_ak57

That signature is still so tacky. The least they could have done was make it the primary logo on the palm area rather than slap it perpendicular on a mouse button. Or you know, just not put it at all.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> That signature is still so tacky. The least they could have done was make it the primary logo on the palm area rather than slap it perpendicular on a mouse button. Or you know, just not put it at all.


The signature could have went underneath the mouse, or better yet not have it at all (like you said) I wouldn't be surprised if scream stuck with the ergo too.. I mean it looks fine with the color scheme.... it's similar to how some products just slam tons of LEDs over them when it's not even necessary


----------



## muso

Is there side buttons on the right aswell?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> Is there side buttons on the right aswell?


negative ghost rider, left side only


----------



## Oeshon

The shape of the mouse is good, lets just hope after all the delays it won't have major issues.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> The shape of the mouse is good, lets just hope after all the delays it won't have major issues.


Let's hold our breath for world peace also.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Let's hold our breath for world peace also.


Honestly, based on the chain of recent events around the world...I'd say that would happen before this mouse is released.


----------



## kashim

finalmouse relase date is delayed to th august?


----------



## kashim

finalmouse relase date is delayed to august?


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> finalmouse relase date is delayed to august?


Yes, but with three other Sensei shaped 3360 mice coming out in July/Aug, I doubt many people really care about this mouse anymore.


----------



## Luxer

Tournament Pro is finally listed on Amazon. You can buy it now, but will ship on the 25th.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A8MAPY0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Yes, but with three other Sensei shaped 3360 mice coming out in July/Aug, I doubt many people really care about this mouse anymore.


This is the only sensei shaped mouse with fingertip indents like the DA, which can be a huge difference depending on your grip style.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

[email protected]$70


----------



## Maximillion

It's to the point where I can't even laugh about this stuff anymore.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Yes, but with three other Sensei shaped 3360 mice coming out in July/Aug, I doubt many people really care about this mouse anymore.


Looks at his massdrop account*

Nope, the amount of craps me and my future Revel could give is 0.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Looks at his massdrop account*
> 
> Nope, the amount of craps me and my future Revel could give is 0.


Truth.

It's just sad at this point. Revel, Pro S, Logi's mouse...the S1's "relevance" is so lacking. And that's NOT considering the price.

I have to ask, what demographic out there is still "anticipating" this mouse? Is there anyone out there with a mentality of "screw Nixeus, screw DM...and there's _no way_ Logi won't screw up their mouse. I'm gonna play it smart and hold out for the S1, it'll be worth it in the end".

Like, how is anyone with even a surface-level knowledge of these other products still holding on to this train wreck?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Truth.
> 
> It's just sad at this point. Revel, Pro S, Logi's mouse...the S1's "relevance" is so lacking. And that's NOT considering the price.
> 
> I have to ask, what demographic out there is still "anticipating" this mouse? Is there anyone out there with a mentality of "screw Nixeus, screw DM...and there's _no way_ Logi won't screw up their mouse. I'm gonna play it smart and hold out for the S1, it'll be worth it in the end".
> 
> Like, how is anyone with even a surface-level knowledge of these other products still holding on to this train wreck?


People who can analyze a product independent of the circumstances behind its release, who believe the side buttons on the DM1 and revel are subpar and take up too much space, dislike the sensei shape, or believe that logitech's shape is too small (assuming it's an mx300 shape).


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> People who can analyze a product independent of the circumstances behind its release, who believe the side buttons on the DM1 and revel are subpar and take up too much space, dislike the sensei shape, or believe that logitech's shape is too small (assuming it's an mx300 shape).


The side buttons on the DM1 /did/ take up a lot of space, I didn't have anywhere near enough room for my thumb and my thumb is tiny, as for the Revel I plead the 5th until I try it out for myself, but we should make no assumptions of Logitech's shape when we have barely even gotten glimpses of the mouse.


----------



## Maximillion

So what the S1 has going for it is...it's larger than an unannounced Logitech mouse (but doesn't have a "Sensei shape") and has, uh...better than mediocre (small) side buttons. That's what it's come to









In all seriousness tho, I'm not saying the S1 doesn't have potential buyers. I mean, plenty of people buy laughably bad "gaming mice" that aren't even worth mentioning (even I have #Authority in my collection). I'm just saying that as _months_ have passed, the overall draw/appeal for it has consistently dwindled (I mean those people who _don't_ fall into the somewhat specific category outlined above). It's not so much about the circumstances surrounding it's release ("release"), it's the changing circumstances of the market as a whole.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> So what the S1 has going for it is...it's larger than an unannounced Logitech mouse (but doesn't have a "Sensei shape") and has, uh...better than mediocre (small) side buttons. That's what it's come to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness tho, I'm not saying the S1 doesn't have potential buyers. I mean, plenty of people buy laughably bad "gaming mice" that aren't even worth mentioning (even I have #Authority in my collection). I'm just saying that as _months_ have passed, the overall draw/appeal for it has consistently dwindled (I mean those people who _don't_ fall into the somewhat specific category outlined above). It's not so much about the circumstances surrounding it's release ("release"), it's the changing circumstances of the market as a whole.


So you think an ODM with no access to the backend srom can deliver acceptable performance? And it's not about categorizing people's taste into what the S1 is. It's a continuum that isn't exhaustive. I gave my reasons why I would want it. ODM mice typically have crap sidebuttons, scroll wheels and button feel. They sell what they're given/have access to. That's not a bad thing, but they don't have as much capital to reinvest into that line or potentially change. The market hasn't changed. There are no benchmarks of the 3360. To be pedantic: The only benchmark of it pits it in a negative light. What does that say about baseline 3360 performance without optimzations and ODM quality?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> So you think an ODM with no access to the backend srom can deliver acceptable performance?


That's a legitimate question, no appeal to that. It'll be answered soon enough. *mouth waters*

GGWP if all this time has actually been the FM team "tweaking every performance detail" and it's noticeably better performance-wise to every 3360 on the market. I'll definitely eat crow.


----------



## qsxcv

afaik
everyone has access to the same 3360 srom

optimizing firmware is more about not screwing things up than tweaking for performance


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> GGWP if all this time has actually been the FM team "tweaking every performance detail" and it's noticeably better performance-wise to every 3360 on the market. I'll definitely eat crow.


lol
no
the only way it would stand out (in performance) is if the others would mess up firmware while FM does not, or if they get a different/exclusive SROM (which they will very likely not)


----------



## qsxcv

it's very likely that they'll all mess up, by my standards


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> So you think an ODM with no access to the backend srom can deliver acceptable performance? And it's not about categorizing people's taste into what the S1 is. It's a continuum that isn't exhaustive. I gave my reasons why I would want it. ODM mice typically have crap sidebuttons, scroll wheels and button feel. They sell what they're given/have access to. That's not a bad thing, but they don't have as much capital to reinvest into that line or potentially change. The market hasn't changed. There are no benchmarks of the 3360. To be pedantic: The only benchmark of it pits it in a negative light. What does that say about baseline 3360 performance without optimzations and ODM quality?


So do you think the s1 will actually have substantailly better firmware than a random odm? I personally doubt it. I guess they have said there will be a way to write your own firmware so maybe someone will make a good firmware for it. Writing my own firmware for it would probably be the only reason I would think about getting it, but knowing me I would get lazy and never finish it.

Edit: also what benchmark are you refering to? If you are talking about the smoothing at high dpi I would bet just about anything the S1 will have that too unless they take so long to release it that pixart makes new sroms without it. Even that is not probable though.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So do you think the s1 will actually have substantailly better firmware than a random odm? I personally doubt it. I guess they have said there will be a way to write your own firmware so maybe someone will make a good firmware for it. Writing my own firmware for it would probably be the only reason I would think about getting it, but knowing me I would get lazy and never finish it.


There's still a slight chance that they actually hired a programmer who knows what to do. I mean, if you look at the implementations done by some ODMs, you really don't need much







Also the possibility of being able to write own firmware would be cool but it has its issues.


----------



## coldc0ffee

We already know logi does their 3366 like a boss. And pending this unannounced but certainly confirmed new mouse (thru pics on stream), it's mostly gg in every way. Unless people prefer fm shape over logi's. That's the only thing that makes sense to choose s1 above it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> We already know logi does their 3366 like a boss. And pending this unannounced but certainly confirmed new mouse (thru pics on stream), it's mostly gg in every way. Unless people prefer fm shape over logi's. That's the only thing that makes sense to choose s1 above it.


I doubt I would like the shape of the Scream One. I probably will use the new Logitech mouse instead.


----------



## wareya

You mean the new logitech battleship?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> You mean the new logitech battleship?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddada*
> 
> 
> Hey you can see it clearly at about 1 min into this vid https://youtu.be/Z-0m37rDNJE?t=1m1s
> 
> The lights look nice i guess.


----------



## wareya

Yep looks like a battleship to me


----------



## a_ak57

I mean it's basically a G100/Diamondback type shape, if that's a battleship then everything is including the S1.


----------



## wareya

It's slightly bigger than it looks but it's just a bulky unergonomic shape overall


----------



## qsxcv

nah


----------



## CorruptBE

Looks like they're finally trying to combine "BLING BLING" with simplicity is a bliss over there at Logitech.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Looks like they're finally trying to combine "BLING BLING" with simplicity is a bliss over there at Logitech.


Bout time. At least logi's bling bling can be turned off and saved to stay off with onboard memory whereas finalmouse is still having trouble having the led turn off when putting computer to sleep. Let alone the delays.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> It's slightly bigger than it looks but it's just a bulky unergonomic shape overall


Have you used it or do you have the dimensions? Also many of the most popular shapes are ambi. I personally hate 90% of ergo shapes so I'm glad this doesn't have an ungrippable slope for a side like most ergo mice.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Have you used it or do you have the dimensions? Also many of the most popular shapes are ambi. I personally hate 90% of ergo shapes so I'm glad this doesn't have an ungrippable slope for a side like most ergo mice.


i'm basing my expectations off the image like other people are

the lighting strip is the most concerning element to me


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> i'm basing my expectations off the image like other people are
> 
> the lighting strip is the most concerning element to me


Why? It can obviously be turned off so what is the harm in it? An extra 2 grams or something.


----------



## wareya

i'm not concerned about the light itself or the weight it might add to the construction


----------



## Crack

Until it can be turned off and does not weight 1/4 of mouse I'm fine with it







Anyway didn't read all 100+ pages but is this mouse gona be available anytime soon or what's going on here ?


----------



## Bucake

my personal concern about the led strip is the material it's made of and the probable creases between it and the shell. it certainly wouldn't be the first mouse where the led window is "in the way" of a comfortable grip for me.
my bet is my ring finger would totally be annoyed by it


----------



## ncck

Meh my biggest complaint for Logitech is there mouse feet and cables. Just wish they'd go with different mouse feet, a rubber cable, and having the screws be out in the open so people don't have to destroy their mice feet to open it up

They do everything else very exceptionally though. Thing is most of us agree on certain things yet getting them all into one product never seems to happen. (Shapes are subjective, so is button amount/placement but yeah.. guess it's marketing or idk :/

Anyone going to order the tp refresh and see if qc improved?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crack*
> 
> Until it can be turned off and does not weight 1/4 of mouse I'm fine with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway didn't read all 100+ pages but is this mouse gona be available anytime soon or what's going on here ?


The S1 is supposedly releasing in August, but it's had I think 6+ tentative release dates going back to like February/March, so...


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> i'm basing my expectations off the image like other people are
> 
> the lighting strip is the most concerning element to me


you mean the led strip that can be turned off?
unlike any leds on the finalmouse that cant?

for someone so concerned about that on the logitech mouse have you voiced any concerns about the super bright driverless finalmice that cant be adjusted at all?

please.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> i'm basing my expectations off the image like other people are
> 
> the lighting strip is the most concerning element to me
> 
> i'm not concerned about the light itself or the weight it might add to the construction


What _are_ you concerned about with the light, then?


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> for someone so concerned about that on the logitech mouse have you voiced any concerns about the super bright driverless finalmice that cant be adjusted at all?


Did you see me say anything positive about the S1 in the last several pages?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> What _are_ you concerned about with the light, then?


This:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> my personal concern about the led strip is the material it's made of and the probable creases between it and the shell. it certainly wouldn't be the first mouse where the led window is "in the way" of a comfortable grip for me.
> my bet is my ring finger would totally be annoyed by it


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Did you see me say anything positive about the S1 in the last several pages?
> This:


no, i wasn't going through pages of this thread digging for all your comments, thats why i was asking you.

you just seemed like a butt hurt typical whiner like everyone else on this forum thats too "hardcore" for LED's on their peripherals.


----------



## wareya

Well it was an awfully presumptuous post if you were just asking


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> my personal concern about the led strip is the material it's made of and the probable creases between it and the shell. it certainly wouldn't be the first mouse where the led window is "in the way" of a comfortable grip for me.
> my bet is my ring finger would totally be annoyed by it


think about the led window on the g502 or g402


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> think about the led window on the g502 or g402


I try not to think about any Logitech mouse other than the G100s.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> think about the led window on the g502 or g402
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I try not to think about any Logitech mouse other than the G100s.
Click to expand...

Would be nice to ONLY be attracted to one mouse model, for the rest of us ho's we need more excitement in our lives hence one model is never enough.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Would be nice to ONLY be attracted to one mouse model, for the rest of us ho's we need more excitement in our lives hence one model is never enough.


sometimes I switch my mouse 3x a day ...
and somedays when I can't hit a **** , I switch mice from map to map or during a Timeout


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> sometimes I switch my mouse 3x a day ...
> and somedays when I can't hit a **** , I switch mice from map to map or during a Timeout


And i thought i had a problem... Lol


----------



## Crack

Actually, don't think you improve your performance by switching mouse few times a day ^^ It's more about muscle memory and getting used to one model.


----------



## Ino.

So, I got a pre-production version of the Scream One. It's not the final (lol) version, but I'll quote Jude here
Quote:


> But other than that the model is final production scream one minus a couple small details. The lights are different. Blue mousewheel and Rgb logo for indicating dpi change. And also it's not using 20m omrons.


_that_ above refers to it being sent in a Tournament Pro box. As I'm going on holiday tomorrow I don't have time to do a full review now. But I'll try to give my impressions here quickly.

First off: performance seems fine, I did the speed related accuracy variance test and it was very accurate, so on similar levels to other 3366 mice. Speed is also well above 5 m/s as was to be expected.

http://imgur.com/rFewja7

Now the sad part: Build quality on this unit is really sub par. Apparently it was used by someone before, so I got it second hand. That might have influenced it, but I think it's more of a tolerances issue. The left side where I place my thumb creaks with every move that I make because there is a gap somewhere between top and lower shell. That is really annoying, not only because I hear it but because I feel the shell give in. I could probably fix this with super glue, but that should really not be necessary.
Buttons overall are fine, no complaints here, response time is faster than current Logitech mice (~2-3ms).

Weight is 80g on my scale.

http://imgur.com/TPlWqqm

http://imgur.com/ADQWJ5O

http://imgur.com/liizhyz

http://imgur.com/S1PtmD0

http://imgur.com/IwoLRDC

http://imgur.com/PnZdAYQ

http://imgur.com/ylbx4qT

http://imgur.com/SHFhfq7

http://imgur.com/fAWQdy3


----------



## costilletas

Wasn't the sub par build quality expected though? I mean.. We all know what's up with them.


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## e4stw00t

Ridiculous - this thread managed to hit 1k replies before the product made it to the market - and still they somehow they did manage not to improve the build quality.

Gamers are like dogs - no matter how often companies screw them over they come back right in time for the next screw up.

Honestly if you want stuff like this to stop vote with your wallet or stop complaining about companies being out of touch with consumers.


----------



## Aventadoor

... And if you want better build quality, better everything, just wait for the new Logitech?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Gamers are like dogs - no matter how often companies screw them over they come back right in time for the next screw up.


lol
you're kinda right, though this isn't quite gamer-specific or mice-specific (or company specific)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> Is the signature part of the shell, or can you feel the inconsistent texture on your finger?


i'm curious to this as well


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> ... And if you want better build quality, better everything, just wait for the new Logitech?


And it might even be released before the Finalmouse


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> You mentioned the 80g weight but nothing about how much the braided cable can nullify, affect and compromise the light feel of it.
> 
> Is the signature part of the shell, or can you feel the inconsistent texture on your finger?


Signature part is just print, you don't feel it.

Regarding cable/feel/drag: I can't properly judge that with this unit because apparently the previous user opened it up too but ****ed up the mouse feet slightly in the process, at least one edge is sticking up which scratches on my pad. So it always felt awkward no matter what.

Cable is a typical braided one, not as stiff as the Flick G1 at least.


----------



## Crack

Well then,I would wait with quality judging till proper one is released. What's the size ?


----------



## buckwheat

You and me both dude.

I just ordered the tournament pro. Excited bc I really do like the classic ergo. I could care less about the Scream One. I will have it Tuesday and do a follow up here. So far from others' video reviews it looks good


----------



## buckwheat

Was quoting Klopfer, my post didn't quote.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*


Just watched this vid and I have always wondered something, maybe you guys know. Are the monitors at most of the majors and events like E-League 24 or 27 inch in size? I can never tell.


----------



## trism

I wouldn't really judge the build quality etc yet since it is apparently just a review version. At least hopefully since the board also has jumpers on it, unless of course they are used for the manual flashing feature - which, then again, I doubt since they are located in an odd place and position-wise look more like copied from the datasheet power block chart.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Just watched this vid and I have always wondered something, maybe you guys know. Are the monitors at most of the majors and events like E-League 24 or 27 inch in size? I can never tell.


Most BenQ monitors used in competition are 24 inches. Players don't like a 27 inch monitor.


----------



## qsxcv

5M omrons








check report intervals in mousetester


----------



## costilletas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Most BenQ monitors used in competition are 24 inches. Players don't like a 27 inch monitor.


That's because they don't have -9 diopters of myopia. They were blessed with durable eyesight lol...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 5M omrons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> check report intervals in mousetester


Ah yes, there's the thing that polling rate drops to 500hz every 200ms or so for 2-4 polls. I'll post that later if possible. Do you want a log of something specific?


----------



## qsxcv

polling rate doesnt drop, the mouse just skips a report

most likely due to a lack of synchronization to the usb frames

and pcb held by clips?
ehhhhhhhhhh


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Most BenQ monitors used in competition are 24 inches. Players don't like a 27 inch monitor.


Ah thanks, I thought so. I saw in that vid called Hiko's player profile, he has that Dell 27" 144hz 1ms on his personal rig that looks pretty snazzy. I am a 24" myself but had a 27" once 120hz. There is nothing too different really. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1205711-REG/dell_s2716dg_27_widescreen_led.html


----------



## Ihateallmice

lol @ people defending their horrible build quality by saying it's not the final version. They have delayed the release of this mouse like 30 times and then finally sent him one. so either they're extremely stupid knowing full well he will disclose that his copy is terribly built, or they don't think there is anything wrong with the quality. no matter how you look at it, finalmouse looks bad. but like someone else said, bad build quality is to be expected - it's the only thing that's remained consistent throughout all their different releases. be it the original, original summer, original winter, original insert random weather condition version, tournament pro, tournament pro fixed but not actually fixed edition, etc.

Good to know TP was used as a beta test for this and the outcome is still garbage.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

dawww~ they even put "copyright finalmouse" on it. that's so adorable.


----------



## a_ak57

So since the mouse weighs 80g, I'm guessing that means they'll probably list it as 70g or even less. Also Ino, can you do a smoothing test?


----------



## Ihateallmice

Industry Leading Super-Lightweight: At Only 76 Grams

ah yes good times


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *costilletas*
> 
> That's because they don't have -9 diopters of myopia. They were blessed with durable eyesight lol...


lol

As I got older I bought a 27 inch 1080 120 Hz monitor. Easier on the eyes, less migraines, etc.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> Industry Leading Super-Lightweight: At Only 76 Grams
> 
> ah yes good times


Well the amusing thing is they've backed themselves into being misleading with this mouse too unless they finally list the actual weights for the others. Not gonna list this as heavier at 80g when you still have the others as 74/76g, after all.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and pcb held by clips?


Screws added too much cost apparently?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Just watched this vid and I have always wondered something, maybe you guys know. Are the monitors at most of the majors and events like E-League 24 or 27 inch in size? I can never tell.


24 they don't like 27
I'm sure many would opt for a 19-17" if available


----------



## jsx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Screws added too much cost apparently?


tis a legitimate reason


----------



## whiteweazel21

What I don't get is, if they redid the "tooling" multiple times, and I'm guessing avoided use of the screws for the added weight, why didn't they remove the screw holes to remove more excess weight? They could have also included clips on that side as well to prevent potential movement of the PCB.

TBH, I bought the 2016 Spring Ergo edition and it seems solidly built aside from the side buttons which are rather lousy. I don't see why people complain so much about the quality (overall, maybe prior versions were worse). But for this new "custom" mouse with so much time in development, looking at the internals, it does look underwhelming.

Are they buying these in China, and then modding them by hand or something? Maybe they can only make like 10 a day.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> What I don't get is, if they redid the "tooling" multiple times, and I'm guessing avoiding use of the screws for added weight, why didn't they remove the screw holes to remove more excess weight? They could have also included clips on that side as well to prevent potential movement of the PCB.
> 
> TBH, I bought the 2016 Spring Ergo edition and it seems solidly built aside from the side buttons. I don't see why people complain so much about it or their quality. But for a "custom" mouse with so much time in development, looking at the internals, it does look underwhelming.
> 
> Are they buying these in China, and then modding them by hand or something?


Buying them on the black market and then Writing on them in Permanent marker.

Gonna have to buy 2 on launch just to cover your buns incase the first one you open up has issues you aren't able to deal with.....here is to hoping the second isn't screwed just the same. lol


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> polling rate doesnt drop, the mouse just skips a report
> 
> most likely due to a lack of synchronization to the usb frames
> 
> and pcb held by clips?
> ehhhhhhhhhh


I meant that as in mousetester shows drops. I'll post screens when home.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> So since the mouse weighs 80g, I'm guessing that means they'll probably list it as 70g or even less. Also Ino, can you do a smoothing test?


I don't know how, but I think qsxcv can read smoothing values out of the mousetester csv files?


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Screws added too much cost apparently?


They don't want to screw you


----------



## Evovil

Sounds like the sensor is as accurate as 3366 (g303) and click latency is better than Logitech. Weight is lower than most mice as well. So quality could be an issue. I'll make sure to order 3 on amazon and pick the best of the bunch. It looks ugly in the color and signature looks me. But as long as it works and tracks well I could care less.

How are the side buttons on it? What about the coating on the top and sides?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I don't know how, but I think qsxcv can read smoothing values out of the mousetester csv files?


from that mousetester screenshot, there's appears to be no mcu smoothing. but
http://www.overclock.net/t/1602282/lets-compile-all-3360-3366-and-their-release-dates-for-everyone/300_100#post_25350288


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We will be sending more handmade samples to individuals over the course of the next couple weeks before launch. I'm hoping more OCN members as well. Unfortunately we can't afford to be sending new production units out due to the demand we are expecting at launch.

S1 is indeed significantly lighter than TP. For a mouse of its size a lot of weird changes had to be made to get those extra 5-6 grams off. Nothing that should effect performance or click travel/feel however.

We are finally very close to release. I don't want to give any dates.... But our programming house in the states is finished programming the MCU's and has shipped them over to factory for assembly... I expect production is finished today or tomorrow.


----------



## Evovil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> from that mousetester screenshot, there's appears to be no mcu smoothing. but
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1602282/lets-compile-all-3360-3366-and-their-release-dates-for-everyone/300_100#post_25350288


So it still has some smoothing just like Logitech does? As long as the sensor is implemented on par or equal to Logitech I'll be happy. Love my g303 but my hand cramps and hurts because of how I hold it. Also waiting on my Revel! Can't wait to try both mice.


----------



## Evovil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We will be sending more handmade samples to individuals over the course of the next couple weeks before launch. I'm hoping more OCN members as well. Unfortunately we can't afford to be sending new production units out due to the demand we are expecting at launch.
> 
> S1 is indeed significantly lighter than TP. For a mouse of its size a lot of weird changes had to be made to get those extra 5-6 grams off. Nothing that should effect performance or click travel/feel however.
> 
> We are finally very close to release. I don't want to give any dates.... But our programming house in the states is finished programming the MCU's and has shipped them over to factory for assembly... I expect production is finished today or tomorrow.


So the testing units are hand made and production units will be higher quality? Can you provide a rough estimate for when the mouse will be available? Like 1 month or 3 months?


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We will be sending more handmade samples to individuals over the course of the next couple weeks before launch. I'm hoping more OCN members as well. Unfortunately we can't afford to be sending new production units out due to the demand we are expecting at launch.
> 
> S1 is indeed significantly lighter than TP. For a mouse of its size a lot of weird changes had to be made to get those extra 5-6 grams off. Nothing that should effect performance or click travel/feel however.
> 
> We are finally very close to release. I don't want to give any dates.... But our programming house in the states is finished programming the MCU's and has shipped them over to factory for assembly... I expect production is finished today or tomorrow.


Wait, how much lighter? Just 5-6 grams? I wonder why it is lighter in the first place... Is S1 Larger or smaller than TP??

I assumed identical just the color and signature.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Wait, how much lighter? Just 5-6 grams? I wonder why it is lighter in the first place... Is S1 Larger or smaller than TP??
> 
> I assumed identical just the color and signature.


They are the exact same chasis wise. The only difference is weight.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> They are the exact same chasis wise. The only difference is weight.


oh ok thank you. The S1 cant be less than 70 grams. The TP is 76g and the ergo is 74g. Ergo weight is great, and I have heard the new FM feels more sturdy or more solid, someone said in a video.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> oh ok thank you. The S1 cant be less than 70 grams. The TP is 76g and the ergo is 74g. Ergo weight is great, and I have heard the new FM feels more sturdy or more solid, someone said in a video.


Ergo is 84-86g and TP is 86-88g, actually. They just list misleading weights and refuse to change it.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Industry Leading Super-Lightweight: At Only 76 Grams

misleading? u cray


----------



## Evovil

My classic ergo is 86 grams with a small amount of ceesa cable.


----------



## Evovil

From what was already posted looks like the scream one (pre production) is 80 grams with an unknown amount of cable. Who knows if the production model is the same weight or lighter.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I wouldn't really judge the build quality etc yet since it is apparently just a review version.


then what is the point of a review sample? to test only the shape?








review samples of an upcoming mouse should be excellent units so that, in this case, Ino could hit us with the "awesome build quality, awesome buttons, great performance, everything is awesome. buy this."
Ino receives a _used_ review sample that's also been opened already. ridiculous. and it squeeks.

right now, this looks like a total joke. after such lengthy and so many delays, they say "our programming house (







) *is* finished programming the mcu's." - they're talking about building firmware like it's _magic_ and you need a 32-man team of rocket scientists to do it. i guess they need a few more scientists to get the mouse to stop skipping reports

anyway, even the pictures show that build quality is at most mediocre. i think this review sample shows exactly what you can expect from finalmouse and i would consider it a warning. but whatever, it's your money


----------



## qsxcv

one would think that review samples are cherry picked...


----------



## ncck

After launch is it possible to custom order one with a rubber cable?


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> one would think that review samples are cherry picked...


Lol, bad quality on samples so expectations are low. Can only go up from here!

They should apply this philosophy to weight specs; list a higher mass so you receive a lighter mouse in reality. They do the opposite though


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> one would think that review samples are cherry picked...


Just clicked into this thread to say those exact words.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> So it still has some smoothing just like Logitech does?


----------



## costilletas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Just clicked into this thread to say those exact words.


They don't cherry pick because they are a honest company


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Ergo is 84-86g and TP is 86-88g, actually. They just list misleading weights and refuse to change it.


ah thanks for that, lol. I feel dumb cuz i just grabbed those numbers real quick off the internet. hey i guess not everything you read is true







hahaha


----------



## buckwheat

Ergo is 84-86g and TP is 86-88g, actually. They just list misleading weights and refuse to change it.







[/quote]
hey, i have Ceesa cable on my ergo too! hell yea!


----------



## buckwheat

Ergo is 84-86g and TP is 86-88g, actually. They just list misleading weights and refuse to change it.







[/quote]
hey, i have Ceesa cable on my ergo too!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> My classic ergo is 86 grams with a small amount of ceesa cable.


hey I have Ceesa cable on my ergo too! oh yeaa


----------



## P54J

Tournament Pro from amazon.com is not available for Europe upon release (and who knows how fast will it be). Will Scream One share the same fate? If so that would suck majorly and I'd not buy their products anymore.


----------



## Ihateallmice

really? having to wait another week after US release is the deal breaker for you? not the build quality, constant lies, failure to meet deadlines, bad sensor implementation, over priced, braided cable despite told nobody wants it, horrible aesthetic due to dumb signature, shady relationship with feenix and about 50 other good reasons not to buy their stuff... but nah, you're gonna make a big deal out of that? after 100 delays? you're going to buy it no matter what, that's as clear as it gets.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> really?... bad sensor implementation, ...


The rest I'm fine with, but is there evidence for this claim yet? There is evidence for poor firmware I guess with the dropping counts thing, but that isn't exactly sensor implementation is it. I'm still confused what exactly people mean when they use that term though and I guess a fair amount of it has to do with firmware. I would consider sensor/tracking concerns and polling rate as separate issues though.


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> not the build quality,


Oof, I forgot about that... I think I remember pashaBiceps being excited about his Ergo 2015 arriving on stream. IIRC he was opening the box and the mouse fell out on to the floor... only for the side-button area to have completely detached. He was pissed off for the rest of the stream and talking about how hard it was going to be to return it. I know it's technically off-topic, but I'll see if I can find the VOD.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> really? having to wait another week after US release is the deal breaker for you? not the build quality, constant lies, failure to meet deadlines, bad sensor implementation, over priced, braided cable despite told nobody wants it, horrible aesthetic due to dumb signature, shady relationship with feenix and about 50 other good reasons not to buy their stuff... but nah, you're gonna make a big deal out of that? after 100 delays? you're going to buy it no matter what, that's as clear as it gets.


Some still haven't found the perfect mouse for them, so yes people will buy despite all of the things you pointed out. Some just have the funds and want a new toy. lol? no? yes? maybe?


----------



## muso

Faster than logitech clicks??? that's great but that could be different on release because you said you're not using 20m omrons??
Do we know if there's the problem with the 3360 over 2k dpi (not that anyone would use it)


----------



## wareya

Yes the 3360 has a problem above 2000 dpi


----------



## Shwiqo6434

..


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Some still haven't found the perfect mouse for them, so yes people will buy despite all of the things you pointed out. Some just have the funds and want a new toy. lol? no? yes? maybe?


I want them to talk about my one taps.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The rest I'm fine with, but is there evidence for this claim yet? There is evidence for poor firmware I guess with the dropping counts thing, but that isn't exactly sensor implementation is it. I'm still confused what exactly people mean when they use that term though and I guess a fair amount of it has to do with firmware. I would consider sensor/tracking concerns and polling rate as separate issues though.


he probably just meant finalmouse their résumé, not specifically the scream one.
for example their 3310 mice had mcu smoothing on top of the dsp smoothing. iirc it couldn't do 1khz. a lack of software / customization.

the way i see "implementation" is just taking the sensor, putting it on a pcb and making it work as well as you can.
mainly firmware i guess, but also including sensor position, software / customization, etc.
so no i wouldn't consider sensor/tracking concerns or polling rate separate issues, as firmware is what "decides" their outcome.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> really? having to wait another week after US release is the deal breaker for you? not the build quality, constant lies, failure to meet deadlines, bad sensor implementation, over priced, braided cable despite told nobody wants it, horrible aesthetic due to dumb signature, shady relationship with feenix and about 50 other good reasons not to buy their stuff... but nah, you're gonna make a big deal out of that? after 100 delays? you're going to buy it no matter what, that's as clear as it gets.


I am guesing I've missed quite a lot of news about this mouse, holy **** lmao.


----------



## P54J

Where do u get your info from? Who said one week. From what i see, TP Pro is still not available for Europe (other continents as well?) but for NA. Will it be available at all? And most importantly, will Scream One be handled the same way.


----------



## thatgold

what are the dimensions?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> what are the dimensions?


126mm Length x 68mm Width x 39mm Height


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Yes the 3360 has a problem above 2000 dpi


Does the 3310 have a similar problem above 2000 dpi?


----------



## chr1spe

People have claimed the 3310 has about 2ms of smoothing at all dpi. I'm not sure if that is at the highest framerate or it doesn't depend on framerates in the case of the 3310 though I would assume it does.

Anyway at high frame rates the 3360 has ~2.67ms of smoothing. So basically about as much as the 3310 does at all dpi when it is abpve 2000 dpi and less when it is below.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> People have claimed the 3310 has about 2ms of smoothing at all dpi. I'm not sure if that is at the highest framerate or it doesn't depend on framerates in the case of the 3310 though I would assume it does.
> 
> Anyway at high frame rates the 3360 has ~2.67ms of smoothing. So basically about as much as the 3310 does at all dpi when it is abpve 2000 dpi and less when it is below.


I don't know if it's the implementation or the SROM of the 3310 that makes my ZA13 feel horrible. I have been trying to play with the 3310 in my FK and ZA13 -- it's a struggle compared to my G100s, MLT04 or 3090 mice.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't know if it's the implementation or the SROM of the 3310 that makes my ZA13 feel horrible. I have been trying to play with the 3310 in my FK and ZA13 -- it's a struggle compared to my G100s, MLT04 or 3090 mice.


For me the clicks made the ZA not feel good, wasn't the sensor. Felt like my shots were always 5ms behind where i had aimed. It was the stiffness of the button

But that's just me, maybe this is your issue too?


----------



## P54J

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't know if it's the implementation or the SROM of the 3310 that makes my ZA13 feel horrible. I have been trying to play with the 3310 in my FK and ZA13 -- it's a struggle compared to my G100s, MLT04 or 3090 mice.


I can totally agree with that. Zowie 3090 was 'better' sensor wise than their implementation of 3310. The tracking was bad in some certain situations, not all over the place. I would call it "spray (full auto) transfer inaccuracy" which made your recoil go all over the place when X axis was used in some certain amount of time. Zowie 3090 > 3310.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Buttons overall are fine, no complaints here, response time is faster than current Logitech mice (~2-3ms).


I think even the Ergo is a hair faster than the g303 on the button response. Is the response time on the Scream better than the Ergo? Maybe further optimizations and the 1K polling rate helps. I'd be curious...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> For me the clicks made the ZA not feel good, wasn't the sensor. Felt like my shots were always 5ms behind where i had aimed. It was the stiffness of the button
> 
> But that's just me, maybe this is your issue too?


The buttons feel fine. They are better than my original FK.

The sensor feels weird. I struggle the most while using the AWP in GO. I get the sensation that it's moving slow and smooth while the cursor speed is the same as my other mice. I put the PCB in my original FK to see how it was to play with a shell I am used to, yet I still get the same sensation. I feel more comfortable using a 3090, AM010 or MLT04.

I am already hearing horrible news regarding the 3360; if it's like the 3310 I won't use it. I rather stick to the 3090, AM010, MLT04 or possibly a 3366. In that case, I am glad I spent all that money on 3090 and MLT04 mice.


----------



## qsxcv

what's horrble about 3360?


----------



## geForZ

IIRC the 3360 is EXACTLY the same as the 3366, except the 3366 is easier to implement in wireless mice. I could be wrong, but I've heard that from multiple people.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> I think even the Ergo is a hair faster than the g303 on the button response. Is the response time on the Scream better than the Ergo? Maybe further optimizations and the 1K polling rate helps. I'd be curious...


I don't know, like I said, I only had a few moments with it before packing for holidays, otherwise I would have made a full review and run it against the original FM and many other mice. Might still do that after holidays depending on how fast other new mice pop up.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what's horrble about 3360?


I don't think it has as good of a SROM. You would know more.


----------



## Bucake

the bump in smoothing above 2k cpi is unacceptable imo. not that i'd care, since i wouldn't use cpi that high..
but look at the 3366, the jitter is low up to a few thousand cpi. averaging over 32 frames is nowhere near necessary at 2100. in fact i don't think 2100 needs any smoothing at all

surely these companies could come up with software and a UI that's understandable for the average user..?
it would be nice to see software with the option to increase/decrease smoothing. all it needs is a little note that explains that you gain accuracy at the cost of responsiveness, and optionally that only high cpi steps really benefit from it.
then add a small "test screen" a la paint where you can see jitter decrease after raising the level of smoothing


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't think it has as good of a SROM. You would know more.


regarding this, i honestly know nothing except that 3360 and 3366 have different and incompatible SROMs. and if i ever learn something under NDA confirming your suspicion, i'll cross out the previous sentence.

and personally, i do not have the expectation that 3366's SROM(s) are better or worse than 3360's, below 2100dpi. from what i've seen in mousetester and mspaint at least, 3360 and 3366 are not distinguishable. same framerates, same framerate transition speeds, etc...

at this point it's probably best for people to just try and see for themselves. i've yet to use a 3360 mice with a comfortable shape, so i don't have any subjective imprrssions either. this is why i didn't want to discuss the >2000 dpi smoothing thing before people actually even used 3360 mice... but that didn't work too well


----------



## Luxer

received the Tournament Pro yesterday, played cs for a few hours so far. There is no rattle like my Ergo 2016 has, the shape feels similar to the Sensei/DM1 Pro but with some slight differences. The buttons being flat with slight indents makes it feel smaller even though it has the same dimensions. The M1/M2 feel very similar to the Deathadder Chroma except the buttons are wider and the same height for both, the base of the mouse is also a little less fat than the Sensei/DM1 Pro which gives it a more uniform feel. The thumb indent is also more towards the middle than the back which makes it better for palm/fingertip grip style.

Good:

- better build quality than Ergo 2016 (no rattle, rubberized sides, longer cord)
- unique shape rather than a copy of the Razer Imperator
- only Sensei/DM1 Pro shaped mouse that has Deathadder-like buttons
- just as light as the DM1 Pro
- might just be me but I can bunnyhop easier with this scroll wheel

Bad:

- braided cord I could of done without
- still overpriced for the bare bones approach


----------



## buckwheat

thank you for the review! mine is coming in a few hours, pretty excited. I will put a write up of my thoughts here as well.


----------



## ncck

I'm also curious if the S1 isn't even worth getting over the tp

But the braided cable prevents me from trying. Just an annoyance that I've come to hate

Interested to see the revel vs s1 when both are out

And then logitechs new one vs both.. wooo! Lol


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm also curious if the S1 isn't even worth getting over the tp
> 
> But the braided cable prevents me from trying. Just an annoyance that I've come to hate
> 
> Interested to see the revel vs s1 when both are out
> 
> And then logitechs new one vs both.. wooo! Lol


And the Pro S


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> And the Pro S


I feel pro s and revel will be 1:1 but just different cables and coatings. We'll see


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I feel pro s and revel will be 1:1 but just different cables and coatings. We'll see


You're probably right, actually


----------



## buckwheat

the Revel looks exactly like the whole Sensei/Kinzu design take that everyone is doing now .

edit: what is the PRO S? I can't find anything about it or who makes it.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> the Revel looks exactly like the whole Sensei/Kinzu design take that everyone is doing now .
> 
> edit: what is the PRO S? I can't find anything about it or who makes it.


The FM TP/Scream1 are in that realm as well with the WMO(dimensions) and sensei/Kinzu. To me it feels better cause the front has a bit more height which gives more room for the ring/pinky if you palm(Although I love the Sensei shape).

as for the DM1 PRO s, a thread is open, here is a link to the sites product page.

https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-s-optical-gaming-mouse-3360-sensor


----------



## Crack

What happened with this ridiculous overwatch page ? This one looks much more normal.
Nvm it is still there under different address


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and if i ever learn something under NDA confirming your suspicion, i'll cross out the previous sentence.


I think this is what they call a "Warrant Canary", or in this case, NDA canary.

On a different note:


----------



## Pragmatist

Had the worst experience with the FinalMouse 2015, because it basically broke in less than two days. I sure hope QC is better with the release of Scream One and that it has a premium feel to it, which the FM 2015 lacks.

The FMSO has an amazing shape that'd suit my hybrid claw grip like a glove, that alone makes me want to order it in an instant when it gets released. There's too many interesting mice being released neck and neck it seems.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pragmatist*
> 
> *FinalMouse
> premium feel*


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*


One can always *hope* they've picked up a thing or two since the first model.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The FM TP/Scream1 are in that realm as well with the WMO(dimensions) and sensei/Kinzu. To me it feels better cause the front has a bit more height which gives more room for the ring/pinky if you palm(Although I love the Sensei shape).
> 
> as for the DM1 PRO s, a thread is open, here is a link to the sites product page.
> 
> https://www.dreammachines.io/products/dm1-pro-s-optical-gaming-mouse-3360-sensor


Yea I agree with you. I too love the Sensei shape and love how the front end next to MB2 has greater height. Easier to rest fingers on the side.

Which is a lot like how the Tournament Pro is. I got mine today and spent the majority of the night playing CSGO with it. I have to say I am blown away. I was a big fan of the ergo and now the TP is my fav mouse I think I have tried yet. Well it is definitely tied for first. I know the ambidextrous design is simple and looks like copies of others, but for me it is very unique. Something I am so glad I found bc I was having trouble finding a good mouse to suit my grip style.

Firstly, I am a palm grip and I owned a Logitech 400s for a long time and it made me get used to having my ring finger on top of that one and all of my mouse, meaning my grip was mainly the thumb and pinky, sometimes the ring finger on the top right corner if I wasn't putting pressure on MB2. Now this is why I liked the ergo so much. It had that small ledge next to MB1 and 2 and I could rest my ring finger and grip from there nicely. Not many mice have that, and very few have capabilities of a MB2 that is strong enough for a ring finger on its top right corner gripping it without de-pressing the button.

Anyways flash forward to today, upon unboxing I gripped the mouse and immediately knew this was a perfect grip for me. The TP doesnt have that ledge I spoke of. The Right mouse button has the indent and kind of curls over the side like deathadder. Unlike the deathadder, I can rest my ring finger right there no problem and not mis click. But the best part about this mouse and which makes it so unique to me, is that like PhiZaRoah said, up at the front on the mouses side, there is more height for the ring and pinky. So for the first time in a long time, I can use that standard palm grip that everyone uses (ring over pinky on side of the mouse) and it is so comfortable. The mouse is tall enough that no part of my hand is rubbing against the mouse pad.

The buttons are very nice. MB 1 and 2 are stiffer than the Ergo but fast as hell to click. They feel very solid to. In CS when I want to one tap I can with ease. No accidental double firing. Only single shots when I want to. The new side buttons are much better than the ergo and are solid as well. The shape ion the sides go inward like this \M/ (or however that is done). And it makes for much better grip. There is a thumb area that is much less indented like the ergo, but you can tell it's there and it is on both sides. Mouse wheel is super smooth and tactile. I guess my only con would be that I wished the LED inside would turn off with the system. But other than that I really cannot find any cons. Oh yea the lift off distance was over 1 dvd (placing 2 down next to each other), which I had noticed on the ergo but never did anything to it, I believe it is the same LOD. So I did the tape trick and now it doesn't track when placed on one DVD and feels much better while playing. Also the sensor feels phenomenal.

So yea that is my review/opinion. Sorry if it seemed like a ramble or I did not include any mathematical stuff about the sensor or what not. I don't really know much about that area I just own A LOT of mice, love testing new ones, and I am always looking for the perfect gaming mouse. I feel with the TP I will be using this for a very long time.

Thanks for reading. I will be happy to answer questions or look up something for you on the mouse if you need.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Yea I agree with you. I too love the Sensei shape and love how the front end next to MB2 has greater height. Easier to rest fingers on the side.
> 
> Which is a lot like how the Tournament Pro is. I got mine today and spent the majority of the night playing CSGO with it. I have to say I am blown away. I was a big fan of the ergo and now the TP is my fav mouse I think I have tried yet. Well it is definitely tied for first. I know the ambidextrous design is simple and looks like copies of others, but for me it is very unique. Something I am so glad I found bc I was having trouble finding a good mouse to suit my grip style.
> 
> Firstly, I am a palm grip and I owned a Logitech 400s for a long time and it made me get used to having my ring finger on top of that one and all of my mouse, meaning my grip was mainly the thumb and pinky, sometimes the ring finger on the top right corner if I wasn't putting pressure on MB2. Now this is why I liked the ergo so much. It had that small ledge next to MB1 and 2 and I could rest my ring finger and grip from there nicely. Not many mice have that, and very few have capabilities of a MB2 that is strong enough for a ring finger on its top right corner gripping it without de-pressing the button.
> 
> Anyways flash forward to today, upon unboxing I gripped the mouse and immediately knew this was a perfect grip for me. The TP doesnt have that ledge I spoke of. The Right mouse button has the indent and kind of curls over the side like deathadder. Unlike the deathadder, I can rest my ring finger right there no problem and not mis click. But the best part about this mouse and which makes it so unique to me, is that like PhiZaRoah said, up at the front on the mouses side, there is more height for the ring and pinky. So for the first time in a long time, I can use that standard palm grip that everyone uses (ring over pinky on side of the mouse) and it is so comfortable. The mouse is tall enough that no part of my hand is rubbing against the mouse pad.
> 
> The buttons are very nice. MB 1 and 2 are stiffer than the Ergo but fast as hell to click. They feel very solid to. In CS when I want to one tap I can with ease. No accidental double firing. Only single shots when I want to. The new side buttons are much better than the ergo and are solid as well. The shape ion the sides go inward like this \M/ (or however that is done). And it makes for much better grip. There is a thumb area that is much less indented like the ergo, but you can tell it's there and it is on both sides. Mouse wheel is super smooth and tactile. I guess my only con would be that I wished the LED inside would turn off with the system. But other than that I really cannot find any cons. Oh yea the lift off distance was over 1 dvd (placing 2 down next to each other), which I had noticed on the ergo but never did anything to it, I believe it is the same LOD. So I did the tape trick and now it doesn't track when placed on one DVD and feels much better while playing. Also the sensor feels phenomenal.
> 
> So yea that is my review/opinion. Sorry if it seemed like a ramble or I did not include any mathematical stuff about the sensor or what not. I don't really know much about that area I just own A LOT of mice, love testing new ones, and I am always looking for the perfect gaming mouse. I feel with the TP I will be using this for a very long time.
> 
> Thanks for reading. I will be happy to answer questions or look up something for you on the mouse if you need.


Only thing you did not do was include a buttload of pictures for those who may have not tried the shape but are interested in the future dropping scream one edition. Gives em a better look at the full shape, especially the right side where you spoke highly of the shape that allows your grip.

I personally am planning to run the TP until the Scream one drops.


----------



## badben25

Photos please!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Yea I agree with you. I too love the Sensei shape and love how the front end next to MB2 has greater height. Easier to rest fingers on the side.
> 
> Which is a lot like how the Tournament Pro is. I got mine today and spent the majority of the night playing CSGO with it. I have to say I am blown away. I was a big fan of the ergo and now the TP is my fav mouse I think I have tried yet. Well it is definitely tied for first. I know the ambidextrous design is simple and looks like copies of others, but for me it is very unique. Something I am so glad I found bc I was having trouble finding a good mouse to suit my grip style.
> 
> Firstly, I am a palm grip and I owned a Logitech 400s for a long time and it made me get used to having my ring finger on top of that one and all of my mouse, meaning my grip was mainly the thumb and pinky, sometimes the ring finger on the top right corner if I wasn't putting pressure on MB2. Now this is why I liked the ergo so much. It had that small ledge next to MB1 and 2 and I could rest my ring finger and grip from there nicely. Not many mice have that, and very few have capabilities of a MB2 that is strong enough for a ring finger on its top right corner gripping it without de-pressing the button.
> 
> Anyways flash forward to today, upon unboxing I gripped the mouse and immediately knew this was a perfect grip for me. The TP doesnt have that ledge I spoke of. The Right mouse button has the indent and kind of curls over the side like deathadder. Unlike the deathadder, I can rest my ring finger right there no problem and not mis click. But the best part about this mouse and which makes it so unique to me, is that like PhiZaRoah said, up at the front on the mouses side, there is more height for the ring and pinky. So for the first time in a long time, I can use that standard palm grip that everyone uses (ring over pinky on side of the mouse) and it is so comfortable. The mouse is tall enough that no part of my hand is rubbing against the mouse pad.
> 
> The buttons are very nice. MB 1 and 2 are stiffer than the Ergo but fast as hell to click. They feel very solid to. In CS when I want to one tap I can with ease. No accidental double firing. Only single shots when I want to. The new side buttons are much better than the ergo and are solid as well. The shape ion the sides go inward like this \M/ (or however that is done). And it makes for much better grip. There is a thumb area that is much less indented like the ergo, but you can tell it's there and it is on both sides. Mouse wheel is super smooth and tactile. I guess my only con would be that I wished the LED inside would turn off with the system. But other than that I really cannot find any cons. Oh yea the lift off distance was over 1 dvd (placing 2 down next to each other), which I had noticed on the ergo but never did anything to it, I believe it is the same LOD. So I did the tape trick and now it doesn't track when placed on one DVD and feels much better while playing. Also the sensor feels phenomenal.
> 
> So yea that is my review/opinion. Sorry if it seemed like a ramble or I did not include any mathematical stuff about the sensor or what not. I don't really know much about that area I just own A LOT of mice, love testing new ones, and I am always looking for the perfect gaming mouse. I feel with the TP I will be using this for a very long time.
> 
> Thanks for reading. I will be happy to answer questions or look up something for you on the mouse if you need.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> Photos please!


I'll drop some for everyone when my arrives. I'll post pics next to the Ec2-A, DA & the Fk1+ which is the closest to the TP & Scream one shape & dimensions.

Edit: here you all are.


----------



## buckwheat

sorry about the photos. I was in bed when i wrote that and totally forgot. but the photos phiz posted look good comparing the mouse to others


----------



## Evovil

Dang it looks really close to the DA. Which would you say is bigger in hand the DA or TP?


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> Dang it looks really close to the DA. Which would you say is bigger in hand the DA or TP?


TP overall bigger IMO. Larger palm area.


----------



## Evovil

Hmm... I plan on finger tipping the mouse. I can do it on the DA but due to the weight I get discomfort. Which shape do you prefer overall?


----------



## buckwheat

i prefer palm grip. the TP has the shape like \M/ where the DA has a shape like \M\. the right slope of the da similar to the original rival is the reason i cannot comfortably use those mice


----------



## buckwheat

i guess my only other con with the TP would be the braded cable. It is stiff and feels much stiffer than the braided cable of the ergo. it wouldnt be an issue if they packaged it in a circle around the box like razer does but they pinch it every few inches and lay it over itself and tie it in the middle when its all wrapped up. that sucks to game with. it takes forever for the cable to straighten out again.

maybe if i have the guts ill open it up and throw a Ceesa cable in there. oh man how amazing that would be.


----------



## Evovil

I have a ceesa cable on my ergo because my cable was crazy stiff. I plan on swapping the cable to my scream1. I'm tempted to buy a TP to try out the shape but I don't want to swap back to the old sensor. I'm sure my hand would be happy since I'm using the g303 atm.


----------



## buckwheat

yea i have a Ceesa cable on my ergo too. I should order another from him for the TP bc it really has a cable that is too stiff. Plus I use the 2 mice that have his cables on them. But I should take the one from the ergo and put it on my TP bc I think I will be using this mouse for a long long time. I will also try and get some photos up tonight.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I have 1 photo left for everyone, even though FM may be working on things, QC remains the biggest issue for them.

Behold



That is a shot of my right mouse button. That little imperfection does not stop the button from being a nice solid click. Does not hinder the mouse in any way. However imperfections like this are things so many feel should not exist on a $67 mouse. It's a scratch on my plastic, it was like this out of the box, the first thing i noticed. This is an extremely mild case of QC. It is though, things like this that keep some away from this company. The same scratch is on my left mouse button as well.

On another note the Cable is butt cheeks just as Buckwheat said. I highly dislike it. That is one thing they did not take from Zowie. This cable they use makes the mouse fight your movement at times. Idk why they continue with them. Light weight mouse, with this cable that is counterproductive. Why in the sam hell do they keep on with it?

Here is the other pic.


----------



## KSIMP88

It's called the scream and the logo is similar to steam's


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> That is a shot of my right mouse button. That little imperfection does not stop the button from being a nice solid click. Does not hinder the mouse in any way. However imperfections like this are things so many feel should not exist on a $67 mouse. It's a scratch on my plastic, it was like this out of the box, the first thing i noticed. This is an extremely mild case of QC. It is though, things like this that keep some away from this company.


Christ guys... if you're going to muck up the paint before it even goes out to the customer, just don't paint it.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have 1 photo left for everyone, even though FM may be working on things, QC remains the biggest issue for them.
> 
> Behold
> 
> 
> 
> That is a shot of my right mouse button. That little imperfection does not stop the button from being a nice solid click. Does not hinder the mouse in any way. However imperfections like this are things so many feel should not exist on a $67 mouse. It's a scratch on my plastic, it was like this out of the box, the first thing i noticed. This is an extremely mild case of QC. It is though, things like this that keep some away from this company. The same scratch is on my left mouse button as well.
> 
> On another note the Cable is butt cheeks just as Buckwheat said. I highly dislike it. That is one thing they did not take from Zowie. This cable they use makes the mouse fight your movement at times. Idk why they continue with them. Light weight mouse, with this cable that is counterproductive. Why in the sam hell do they keep on with it?
> 
> Here is the other pic.


DUDE i did not notice this at first but I have THE SAME scratches. I don't see how they got there, maybe but that would have made the M1 and M2 buttons depressed and moved a substantial amount to be scratched like that. I dont know. But as you said, it does not hinder in ANY way from having a solid click. Honestly the clicks are some of the more solid I have seen on mice.

Also the cable like I said many times really is ass. Like its so thick that moving from one side of your pad to the other makes you thing the cable is getting hung up on something but it is not. It is just the thick cable twisting and turning due to the movement and you can totally feel it in your hand. Like I said you will thing the cable is getting hung up on something.

Also, do you know what mouse foot the screw is under? I think I may switch my Ceesa cable out tonight. I want the best possible experience.

EDIT: Going back and looking at the photos of the S1 taken apart I believe the screws are under the bottom 2 feet. Ugh, I hate taking off feet and putting the same ones back on. Wish me luck.


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> Wish me luck.


You'll need it. Whenever I take off mouse feet they look about as mutilated as they would had I taken them off a real mouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> Christ guys... if you're going to muck up the paint before it even goes out to the customer, just don't paint it.


Exactly
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> DUDE i did not notice this at first but I have THE SAME scratches. I don't see how they got there, maybe but that would have made the M1 and M2 buttons depressed and moved a substantial amount to be scratched like that. I dont know.


Yea me neither. ridiculous to have stuff like this at this point. lol


----------



## ncck

So from the posts sounds like the FM may eventually be a good purchase decision (but still expensive) if the QC is adjusted.. I hope they opt for a rubber cord or allow a custom order on it in the future; haven't heard from them on that matter.. I just hate braids!









But glad to hear you guys are liking the shape


----------



## wareya

That was their business model. Put out an acceptable entry-level mouse with lots of marketing in order to get capital to make more mice at different quality points. Thing is, they're almost incompetent, and kept making ridiculously silly mistakes.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> they're almost incompetent, and kept making ridiculously silly mistakes.


That's not just FM. Steelseries, logitech and zowie all seem to be reading from the same playbook. Although the new Logitech mouse makes me think they are changing creative direction for the better.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> FinalMouse
> $67 mouse.


I forget how badly they're scamming the community.


----------



## buckwheat

So i come back with good news and some bad. Mostly good tho. I switched out my Ceesa cable from the ergo to the TP. the mouse is now SO MUCH NICER. However I could not get the TP cable into the ergo. So I will get another Ceesa cable for that mouse. Good thing I have a second ergo that was sent to me free of charge.

If you guys don't know about Ceesa and his mouse cables hit him up, I know he is in the Unspecific mouse thread on here a lot. And I believe he has a dedicated thread to his cables. They are so nice. Super flimsy, almost like the mouse is wireless. Price is great, just shipping takes a few days coming from Germany. When you buy one just tell him the mouse it is for and he will switch around the colored wires that go into the PCB for the mouse. I had to do that on my own once and its not a fun task. He is really good at it and makes it looks perfect. Also add that to your ship time as he does that by himself. Also the cables come in many different colors, mostly bright neon and some mixed colors.

Anyways, the TP is amazing now. Upon expecting the insides, this was weird. There are no screws holding the PCB to the bottom of the shell. There was a black piece of textured tape that covered the sensor and I lifted that and still no screws. Also the first time I put it back together that black tape completely covered the bright LED that comes out of the logo at the palm, so if that is too bright for you, open the mouse up and just use the tape to cover the LED. I thought about leaving it but instead fixed it. Here are a few pics of the inside and the final outcome.

I really hope you guys that are interested in this mouse try it out. If you don't like it Amazon has an excellent return system so no harm done. As someone who has struggled to find that perfect mouse for a long time, the TP works great for me. I can count on one hand the number of mice that are this good for me.

Good luck!

EDIT: Taking off the mouse feet was much easier with the small FM feet. For the ergo I have taken them off multiple times and they always work fantastic. Big mouse feet are the ones you screw up. So props to FM in that regard.

EDIT 2: By the way for the Ceesa cable after the photo was taken I pushed it up into the mouse as much as I could since I couldnt lift the PCB.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*


Good to know you can still use it as a torch/flashlight


----------



## ncck

Nice work with the cable swap, also why do they have that LED.. that thing is unreal lol


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Nice work with the cable swap, also why do they have that LED.. that thing is unreal lol


It's the future of gaming. When a flashbang goes off, you're mouse kicks up the brightness of the LEDs to 1000%, regardless if you've turned them off.


----------



## buckwheat

haha it is not that bright in person. I guess my phone was right over it in the perfect position to catch the LED beam when I took the pic. It is pretty bright from the right position. Also thank you for the kudos. The Ceesa cable is a blessing bc now the mouse is so much nicer to use. It feels wireless.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> It's the future of gaming. When a flashbang goes off, you're mouse kicks up the brightness of the LEDs to 1000%, regardless if you've turned them off.


https://gfycat.com/DelightfulUnitedKitfox

http://9gag.com/gag/am0PpOj/cs-go-player-s-flashbang-reaction


----------



## buckwheat

Also I know this is not the place to ask, but I am looking to trade my Zowie EC2-A BenQ edition for the EC2-A regular white logo Zowie version. Would anyone on here be willing to do that? Also can anyone link me to a trade thread if one exists? I searched but did not see one..


----------



## Bucake

nice posts per minute there buckwheat


----------



## ralloff

Does anyone have a guide for taking apart the Ergo? I honestly could not for the life of me take that shell apart without severely damaging it. Couldn't find screws, and the only video I could find of it being apart the guy said he broke it. I wanted to give the ergo a good shot, but the cable was just horrendous. Tips?


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> nice posts per minute there buckwheat


I am bored mate.


----------



## Crack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> I am bored mate.


Make us a favor and use edit


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> https://gfycat.com/DelightfulUnitedKitfox
> 
> http://9gag.com/gag/am0PpOj/cs-go-player-s-flashbang-reaction


See, we're already ready for it


----------



## Evovil

I'm so damn tempted to buy the TP now. But have the nexus coming shortly and I think amazon must hate me with how many mice I've returned in the past. If I wasn't going to order 3 scream ones to cherry pick the best I would be all over this. Can you weigh the new TP and see how much it weighs? Even better if you could weigh it with the ceesa cable.


----------



## KSIMP88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crack*
> 
> Make us a favor and use edit


How does that do us a favor, exactly? It's only a very minor waste of OCN resources. And if it bothers you that much, you have worse problems, haha


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> I'm so damn tempted to buy the TP now. But have the nexus coming shortly and I think amazon must hate me with how many mice I've returned in the past. If I wasn't going to order 3 scream ones to cherry pick the best I would be all over this. Can you weigh the new TP and see how much it weighs? Even better if you could weigh it with the ceesa cable.


dude i would but i dont have a small kitchen scale. sorry man. the ceesa cable practically weigs nothing if that helps.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KSIMP88*
> 
> How does that do us a favor, exactly? It's only a very minor waste of OCN resources. And if it bothers you that much, you have worse problems, haha


it's also a minor investment to edit, rather than post multiple times. and where did you get the idea it bothers him "that much"?
look at your own post..


----------



## NovaGOD

My experience with ergo 2015 was not the best, bad build quality, bad mouse feet, I couldn't spray effectively in csgo(maybe because of extra smoothing idk). Now I'm temped to give finalmouse a "final" chance but I'm from EU so we might never get this judging from TP..


----------



## ayktekc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> My experience with ergo 2015 was not the best, bad build quality, bad mouse feet, I couldn't spray effectively in csgo(maybe because of extra smoothing idk). Now I'm temped to give finalmouse a "final" chance but I'm from EU so we might never get this judging from TP..


+1, a decent player here with 3 global account and some local lan achivements and I agree with you, I can't spray with it same as like you. Also when i use fm 2015 ergo i dont have the full control of the mouse I can't do flicks and i cant turn 180 without rattling. I will give a shot to FM S1, I also from EU.


----------



## whiteweazel21

FWIW, aside from the junky side buttons, the Ergo 2016 summer edition is solid IMO. The cable is stiffer than any other mouse cable I've ever used in the last 20 years.


----------



## Evovil

What mouse are you currently using? You plan on trying the Revel? Think the spray control has to do with the shape and muscle memory? I do find the fm ergo jittery at times which hinders my spray. Not sure if it's a sensor thing or me not being smooth with movements


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> FWIW, aside from the junky side buttons, the Ergo 2016 summer edition is solid IMO. The cable is stiffer than any other mouse cable I've ever used in the last 20 years.


You haven't tried the Fnatic Flick or DM1 pro then. Lol


----------



## P54J

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You haven't tried the Fnatic Flick or DM1 pro then. Lol


Not sure what game you are playing, but honestly what's wrong with DM1 Pro side buttons again?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P54J*
> 
> Not sure what game you are playing, but honestly what's wrong with DM1 Pro side buttons again?


The side buttons are great.

I was referring to the Cables.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Their cables are even stiffer?

The strange thing is the wire itself is so thin already. If you debraided it, and removed the plastic protection, you'd probably have the thinnest and lightest cables possible, even compared to other mice with similar treatments. It must be the ground wire or something is super stiff.

I'm thinking of a DIY route like Ceesa has done with paracord. Tons of stuff to buy if you really want to DIY, but it would be easy to do any mouse and more mice whenever needed.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> What mouse are you currently using? You plan on trying the Revel? Think the spray control has to do with the shape and muscle memory? I do find the fm ergo jittery at times which hinders my spray. Not sure if it's a sensor thing or me not being smooth with movements


It's you not having muscle memory with the mouse yet, simply changing mice will throw you off especially if the shape or sensor position is different. If a mouse is larger for example you could be lowering your mouse the same you did with a smaller one and it would move sightly more/less throwing your entire spray off

Muscle memory training maps for a month multiple times a week will help tremendously. Personally to really become one with a mouse you have to use it for like a year and never doubt yourself. Unless the mouse actually has a defect it's just memory


----------



## whiteweazel21

I'd agree with ncck, especially with the ergo and the thumb indentation.


----------



## CorruptBE

Could be it, I can swap between FK1/2, Sensei, Kana v2 & Rival 100 easily, but those shapes are almost exactly the same.

If I switch to a different shape, I can sometimes do better, but consistency seems way better with the aforementioned mice/shapes.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Could be it, I can swap between FK1/2, Sensei, Kana v2 & Rival 100 easily, but those shapes are almost exactly the same.
> 
> If I switch to a different shape, I can sometimes do better, but consistency seems way better with the aforementioned mice/shapes.


You are an ambi guy then. Why not choose one of those mice & just stick with it?


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You are an ambi guy then. Why not choose one of those mice & just stick with it?


Stick with one mouse??? That's like the antithesis of this forum.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Stick with one mouse??? That's like the antithesis of this forum.


Meh, I've pretty much exclusively used the g303 for the past 8 months and I'm still on here a bunch







. I'm probably one of the few people that think the g303 is a good shape while tons of other mice are awful as far as shape though. The G100s and related shapes are the only shapes that I've used that were as good or better. Every other mouse with a nice shape seems to be junk though.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Stick with one mouse??? That's like the antithesis of this forum.


The Goal is to be faithful to one. Lol

Everyone wants THAT one mouse or continuously searches for it. Some just admittedly want em all.


----------



## kashim

i had tried deathadder 2013 and g502 and i like g502 sensor more.my problem with g502 is the shape,i play with palm grip but can t handle it on g502,is too thin and if i put all my palm on it can t grip the mouse fine...then now i have a hybrid finger/palm grip on it and play with last 2 finger on the mousepad...need a larger mouse or better suited for my grip,g502 is large but a lot of space if for finger rest on the left and i don t like the shape so much...i m a low senser cs go player and i m looking for something really light with best sensor and more suited for my grip.

i m looking between:

- DM1 PRO S

- EC1-A

- FINALMOUSE SCREAM ONE

both have great sensor,fm and dm have a better sensor then ec1,but what is the best mouse for me?any tips?sorry for my eng


----------



## ayktekc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i had tried deathadder 2013 and g502 and i like g502 sensor more.my problem with g502 is the shape,i play with palm grip but can t handle it on g502,is too thin and if i put all my palm on it can t grip the mouse fine...then now i have a hybrid finger/palm grip on it and play with last 2 finger on the mousepad...need a larger mouse or better suited for my grip,g502 is large but a lot of space if for finger rest on the left and i don t like the shape so much...i m a low senser cs go player and i m looking for something really light with best sensor and more suited for my grip.
> 
> i m looking between:
> 
> - DM1 PRO S
> 
> - EC1-A
> 
> - FINALMOUSE SCREAM ONE
> 
> both have great sensor,fm and dm have a better sensor then ec1,but what is the best mouse for me?any tips?sorry for my eng


G502 have a ******ed shape tho go with FinalMouse Scream One


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayktekc*
> 
> G502 have a ******ed shape tho go with FinalMouse Scream One


+1 for the shape,but why screamone?is the best of the 3?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> +1 for the shape,but why screamone?is the best of the 3?


Between the 2 i prefer the Tournament Pro/Scream1 shape much more. At the 126 length & higher front it is much more comfortable to palm the mouse for extended periods of time. On top of that the weight is great compared to the 502(ESPECIALLY for low sense). Once the scream drops it will sell well even with all the set backs they have had. If the Qc is fine(dice roll from hell) then FinalMouse will be good. Button latency is solid, Ino reported it in the short time he had with it, that it was lower than logitech so that is great. The buttons in general on the mouse feel great as well. The 3 year warranty helps too.


----------



## ncck

I'm curious if the S1 will even be 'worth' upgrading from the TP for those who own it. Cause lets be honest 3310 @ 500hz is extremely consistent, and S1 seems to offer nothing more than the 3360; unless someone can post otherwise? I don't remember reading anything more (plus the TP looks better imo, the 'scream' signature on the mouse looks silly)

I do hope they eventually produce it with a rubber cable if it ends up being a good product...they've been silent on that.. well better off they stay silent cause it's not been too good with all the release dates


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm curious if the S1 will even be 'worth' upgrading from the TP for those who own it. Cause lets be honest 3310 @ 500hz is extremely consistent, and S1 seems to offer nothing more than the 3360; unless someone can post otherwise? I don't remember reading anything more (plus the TP looks better imo, the 'scream' signature on the mouse looks silly)
> 
> I do hope they eventually produce it with a rubber cable if it ends up being a good product...they've been silent on that.. well better off they stay silent cause it's not been too good with all the release dates


With the price jump to $76 for te scream 1 i can easily see why you feel like so. The 3360 isn't just gonna make players improve drastically.

Me personally, i have supported FM from the jump through each and every hiccup they have had. I had 5 ergos, YES 5! Fiiiiive before i got one with 0 damn issues, believe me, bae was pissed about it too. Lol

I want to see the S1 QC be how it should be. With the issues the TP had that got it pulled from Amazon, these things should be ironed out. Yet i am testing a TP currently that has scuffs on the paint. Stuff like this brings the hilarious jokes on OCN. I feel that's a big issue they are trying to address with the S1. They have failed the release date multiple times, so it better be hella ready on release.

3310 at 500Hz i agree feels great. The S1 locked at 1000 with no option to drop to 500 may turn some away but we'll see. With my G303 i run that at 500Hz as well & love it. Just preference i guess.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> With the price jump to $76 for te scream 1 i can easily see why you feel like so. The 3360 isn't just gonna make players improve drastically.
> 
> Me personally, i have supported FM from the jump through each and every hiccup they have had. I had 5 ergos, YES 5! Fiiiiive before i got one with 0 damn issues, believe me, bae was pissed about it too. Lol
> 
> I want to see the S1 QC be how it should be. With the issues the TP had that got it pulled from Amazon, these things should be ironed out. Yet i am testing a TP currently that has scuffs on the paint. Stuff like this brings the hilarious jokes on OCN. I feel that's a big issue they are trying to address with the S1. They have failed the release date multiple times, so it better be hella ready on release.
> 
> 3310 at 500Hz i agree feels great. The S1 locked at 1000 with no option to drop to 500 may turn some away but we'll see. With my G303 i run that at 500Hz as well & love it. Just preference i guess.


only 1 question bro,for you in game like cs go with 502 is better 500hz or 1000hz?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only 1 question bro,for you in game like cs go with 502 is better 500hz or 1000hz?


It's preference, some people like the 'feeling' that 500hz gives which is to me a more 'smoothed' motion. Also 500hz appears to be 100% stable while 1000hz can move around; I guess if you wanted the most consistency you could get you'd probably want to use 500hz

edit @ phiz - I doubt they would leave you only being able to use 1000hz on the S1.. there will probably be someway to drop it down to 500hz

edit2: Well the post below me confirms that you can use it at 500hz !


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I use the s1 with our internal timer requesting motion data at 1ms but with USB polling at 500hz. Feels nicest for me







and is what scream uses.

I'm excited to release the directions for uploading your own firmware to the s1. Interested to see how that goes.


----------



## qsxcv

your internal timer isn't sync'd to usb frames

thats why ino's plots show skipped reports


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Yea i think his may show a skipped report every 50ms. We actually fixed that since.

We also tried experimenting with just sending mousedata whenever it was available (basically we eliminated the 1ms int and we just go around the loop and if send a report if one is available) .... so there was no more check.... but we got a bunch of noise .... or atleast we think it was noise.. still unsure on that behavior


----------



## Bucake

will you release the PCB schematic to support the firmware feature you talked about earlier?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I use the s1 with our internal timer requesting motion data at 1ms but with USB polling at 500hz. Feels nicest for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and is what scream uses.
> 
> I'm excited to release the directions for uploading your own firmware to the s1. Interested to see how that goes.


what?500hz is possible







?any release date?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> what?500hz is possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?any release date?


Leeeet's just hope this month.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Leeeet's just hope this month.


me tooo wanna sell this **** XD


----------



## Evovil

Uhmm... When when when? Tired of waiting for this mouse to finally hit stores. Also the firmware tweaking sounds awesome. If your going to pop in to tease us give us a little info.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You are an ambi guy then. Why not choose one of those mice & just stick with it?


Because they all suck at some aspect









Fingers crossed for that 3360 Revel from Mass Drop.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Because they all suck at some aspect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fingers crossed for that 3360 Revel from Mass Drop.


haha so true, I also have my fingers crossed for that.. and I have my fingers crossed for the S1 (and if it can get a rubber cable in the future) then maybe just maybe us ambi users can get a 'final mouse' ...... or at least I hope so lol funny thing is several years ago my simple logitech optical with like 250 dpi should of been my final mouse.. should of kept that thing lol


----------



## ncck

*TL;DR AT BOTTOM*

Received the FM TP today and here's the overview

Minor scuff on the right mouse button on the left side underside, doesn't affect click ; also on the far left side of the mouse in front of the M4/M5 buttons another scuff - doesn't affect anything just cosmetic look

My top left mouse foot was damaged a small amount; but I think if I use it for an extended period of time it will smooth out; rest of the feet seemed ok. The shape is pretty good not sure if I personally need more length but the right side has enough room for both my pinky/index which is a great thing and normally troublesome with ambi mice.

Buttons and clicks feel solid to me, led seems less intense than before but I'd still opt for no LED and the stress reliever is raised quite high plus the braided cable is very maliable (meaning if you pull it it will stay in the position you make it) so I'm able to elevate it entirely with a mouse bungee - I do prefer rubber cables but this one is actually decent mainly because I can have it not touch the mousepad - if it were to drag then I'd be annoyed by it

And tracking as usual 3310 @ 500hz we all know feels very consistent. Also I'm not sure how the sensor is positioned but making movements with the wrist feels easier (micro movements).

I'd say I prefer this one heavily over the ergo I tried almost a year ago and think it's a pretty decent mouse - I'm only unhappy that the mouse skate was damaged a little and the scuffs I could care less about but to some people that may bother them. So overall decent mouse, definitely prefer it over zowie and the price tag is fairly high for what it is but whatever. As for the scream1 if it's literally the same exact mouse just with a 3366 (and if you can run it at 500hz) then I guess it would be better than this? But holding the TP right now even if the S1 did come out I personally wouldn't see myself buy it unless this one broke - but the warranty period is so long I'd just get another one. Despite all the flak and missed release dates the mouse is not bad by any means - if you don't own the mouse then I'd say wait for the S1 and see what it's all about - cause if you have the TP then I really can't see an upgrade being necessary (my opinion)

TL;DR
Pros: good shape, good buttons, accurate sensor, decent cable(better than expected)
Cons: LED, one mouse skate was damaged
Debatable: price, I personally feel it's higher than other mice but with no real reason


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> *TL;DR AT BOTTOM*
> 
> Received the FM TP today and here's the overview
> 
> Minor scuff on the right mouse button on the left side underside, doesn't affect click ; also on the far left side of the mouse in front of the M4/M5 buttons another scuff - doesn't affect anything just cosmetic look
> 
> My top left mouse foot was damaged a small amount; but I think if I use it for an extended period of time it will smooth out; rest of the feet seemed ok. The shape is pretty good not sure if I personally need more length but the right side has enough room for both my pinky/index which is a great thing and normally troublesome with ambi mice.
> 
> Buttons and clicks feel solid to me, led seems less intense than before but I'd still opt for no LED and the stress reliever is raised quite high plus the braided cable is very maliable (meaning if you pull it it will stay in the position you make it) so I'm able to elevate it entirely with a mouse bungee - I do prefer rubber cables but this one is actually decent mainly because I can have it not touch the mousepad - if it were to drag then I'd be annoyed by it
> 
> And tracking as usual 3310 @ 500hz we all know feels very consistent. Also I'm not sure how the sensor is positioned but making movements with the wrist feels easier (micro movements).
> 
> I'd say I prefer this one heavily over the ergo I tried almost a year ago and think it's a pretty decent mouse - I'm only unhappy that the mouse skate was damaged a little and the scuffs I could care less about but to some people that may bother them. So overall decent mouse, definitely prefer it over zowie and the price tag is fairly high for what it is but whatever. As for the scream1 if it's literally the same exact mouse just with a 3366 (and if you can run it at 500hz) then I guess it would be better than this? But holding the TP right now even if the S1 did come out I personally wouldn't see myself buy it unless this one broke - but the warranty period is so long I'd just get another one. Despite all the flak and missed release dates the mouse is not bad by any means - if you don't own the mouse then I'd say wait for the S1 and see what it's all about - cause if you have the TP then I really can't see an upgrade being necessary (my opinion)
> 
> TL;DR
> Pros: good shape, good buttons, accurate sensor, decent cable(better than expected)
> Cons: LED, one mouse skate was damaged
> Debatable: price, I personally feel it's higher than other mice but with no real reason


sorry but is better 500hz then 1000?is more consistent?because i use 1000hz on my g502....nee to change?i'll play csgo


----------



## ayktekc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sorry but is better 500hz then 1000?is more consistent?because i use 1000hz on my g502....nee to change?i'll play csgo


Stay with 1000Hz, theres problem with 500hz when you try to do spray


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sorry but is better 500hz then 1000?is more consistent?because i use 1000hz on my g502....nee to change?i'll play csgo


no keep it at 1000Hz

Some old mice and or mobos had issues with 1000Hz


----------



## ncck

I just want to add that my review that I wrote before still stands - but wanted to add that I also find the side of the mouse to not be too grippy (coating) It's not super slippery but I can't have a firm grip on it like you can with the ZA zowie coating for example. I think they chose the material for the sides to make it lighter though (just guessing) I just can't seem to get my fingers to 'grip' tightly

Regardless still going to use it because it is for sure better than the zowie was for me personally: As for the one damaged mouse skate which I'm just dealing with at the moment - for people who own this mouse do you just contact their support for replacement feet or did any of you opt for 3rd parties like hypers and just find them way superior? I feel hypers would be no issue because the LOD feels quite high(like 3 CDS) but just wondering if anyone used them and which ones did you use (im guessing the IME ones?)

edit: I also e-mailed hyperglides on if they're planning to make skates for this mouse


----------



## NovaGOD

I hope the LOD on S1 is lower, 3CD is way too high, <2-1.8mm is ideal for me.

I used IME 3.0 hyperglides on ergo 2015 without any issue, I'm planning to do the same if I ever get my hands on a S1.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

My to Lod is very low. 3cd is dumb high. Mine is under 2.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> My to Lod is very low. 3cd is dumb high. Mine is under 2.


I'm sure it varies per mouse pad, can't think of any other reason?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm sure it varies per mouse pad, can't think of any other reason?


The mouse could just be being an a$$?? Lol

On both Qck Heavy & Qck+ my LOD is low.


----------



## ncck

Well there's a few things
1) I'm using a USB 3.0 port
2) I'm using the glorious xl heavy mouse pad

So I'm assuming the material and color of the mouse pad is causing it to track way higher or I just got a rare one with the LOD accidentally set higher?

I don't think the 3.0 port has any effect. Also I'm curious how these skates glide if they were all in perfect condition. They seem to be cut very very sharp so I guess it'd take a month of gaming to even smooth them out. I'm not noticing it in game though I'm aiming extremely accurately.

Also looked up the s1 and here are the differences I read

Sensor is 2mm higher, no idea if that's good or bad
Side buttons will use huano (no idea if that's better)
Mouse will weigh slightly less
And the firmware can be rewritten by users

Other than that seems the same. Hopefully the 2mm up sensor position doesn't ruin it. I have no idea how that would feel especially for arm aimers

PS whoever put hyper ime on these can you please take a picture whenever you have time to show your placement also is it 100% stable (no tilt if you lean on it left/right) seriously considering that


----------



## popups

https://twitter.com/G2ScreaM/status/760981599169212416


----------



## ncck

I'm nervous that the 2mm raised sensor position will be worse than the TP.. hopefully one of you will have both and can compare


----------



## 3Shells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> https://twitter.com/G2ScreaM/status/760981599169212416


wow, it looks terrible, like a 15 dollar mouse from aliexpress. The coating looked better earlier.


----------



## Dylan Nails

its cringe that this has 127 pages and so many people on here are buying it when finalmouse are literally the most overpriced mice manufacturer, no software for 3360, on top of how ugly and tacky it looks. why would you buy this over g200 lmao


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> its cringe that this has 127 pages and so many people on here are buying it when finalmouse are literally the most overpriced mice manufacturer, no software for 3360, on top of how ugly and tacky it looks. why would you buy this over g200 lmao


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> its cringe that this has 127 pages and so many people on here are buying it when finalmouse are literally the most overpriced mice manufacturer, no software for 3360, on top of how ugly and tacky it looks. why would you buy this over g200 lmao


TP is expensive but it craps all over my zowie fk/ZA in every category - also g200 isn't out yet


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> PS whoever put hyper ime on these can you please take a picture whenever you have time to show your placement also is it 100% stable (no tilt if you lean on it left/right) seriously considering that


I haven't use my fm ergo 2015 for a long time and I'm on vacation now but I found a pic with IME 3.0 hypers on my phone. No tilt or anything they worked perfectly, it might be different on TP/S1 though..


----------



## john88

I have three areas on the mouse shell where the coating feels nasty. Like crud got in there when they were spraying the shells... Anybody else have it too? On the NEW FM TP mouse.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> its cringe that this has 127 pages and so many people on here are buying it when finalmouse are literally the most overpriced mice manufacturer, no software for 3360, on top of how ugly and tacky it looks. why would you buy this over g200 lmao


IMO no software is a good thing. it makes the ceiling for quality slightly lower but it makes the floor WAY higher. Look at the ASUS Sica, great little mouse but it has a lot of delay and it had WAY more at launched, like 30ms. this is because the software was programmed poorly. If it had no software, the floor quality of this mouse could have been way higher.


----------



## Melan

No, it's just sica has garbage firmware. Software is easy to write and won't affect the quality.


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, it's just sica has garbage firmware. Software is easy to write and won't affect the quality.


Is it? Somebody told me a dun goofed.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> its cringe that this has 127 pages and so many people on here are buying it when finalmouse are literally the most overpriced mice manufacturer, no software for 3360, on top of how ugly and tacky it looks. why would you buy this over g200 lmao


The best part is every person that just picked up the ''new'' TP version is complaining about the quality control. Like what'd you expect? Much keks.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> IMO no software is a good thing. it makes the ceiling for quality slightly lower but it makes the floor WAY higher. Look at the ASUS Sica, great little mouse but it has a lot of delay and it had WAY more at launched, like 30ms. this is because the software was programmed poorly. If it had no software, the floor quality of this mouse could have been way higher.


what you just said made no sense. having optional software doesnt make a mouse perform worse


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> IMO no software is a good thing. it makes the ceiling for quality slightly lower but it makes the floor WAY higher. Look at the ASUS Sica, great little mouse but it has a lot of delay and it had WAY more at launched, like 30ms. this is because the software was programmed poorly. If it had no software, the floor quality of this mouse could have been way higher.


wat


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> what you just said made no sense. having optional software doesnt make a mouse perform worse


I posted just after that saying that I was given false information and trusted what a friend of mine said. Although, I still prefer no software. I'll take button combos any day since they're so much easier for LANs.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> I posted just after that saying that I was given false information and trusted what a friend of mine said. Although, I still prefer no software. I'll take button combos any day since they're so much easier for LANs.


You can do this with software and on board memory and not have to deal with any button combinations at all.

There's no positive gain to not having software support. Unless you don't want fixes, enhancements, and enjoy buying the next model for simple updates that could be done through software.

Or if you own a Ninox Aurora. But that was the fault of bst and whomever made the shoddy software to begin with one of an outlier than a reason to not have e software.


----------



## geForZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> You can do this with software and on board memory and not have to deal with any button combinations at all.
> 
> There's no positive gain to not having software support. Unless you don't want fixes, enhancements, and enjoy buying the next model for simple updates that could be done through software.
> 
> Or if you own a Ninox Aurora. But that was the fault of bst and whomever made the shoddy software to begin with one of an outlier than a reason to not have e software.


I'm just a combo of lazy and old-fashioned. What I meant by it being easier on LAN is that at the CS:GO majors for example, they have pre-built computers (only Steam and CS:GO installed) with very limited internet access. Going to download that stuff like Razer Synapse and Logitech G or whatever is a pain. That probably won't ever be a problem for me, but since I use a lot of different computers I still hate that ****. As for the on board memory, that's fantastic but a lot of the time settings don't stick on mice, idk why.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> I'm just a combo of lazy and old-fashioned. What I meant by it being easier on LAN is that at the CS:GO majors for example, they have pre-built computers (only Steam and CS:GO installed) with very limited internet access. Going to download that stuff like Razer Synapse and Logitech G or whatever is a pain. That probably won't ever be a problem for me, but since I use a lot of different computers I still hate that ****. As for the on board memory, that's fantastic but a lot of the time settings don't stick on mice, idk why.


You have to supply your drivers to the organizer and then download them from the FTP. Some organizers don't care about you using the internet (you still have enough internet access at stricter tournaments).


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3Shells*
> 
> wow, it looks terrible, like a 15 dollar mouse from aliexpress. The coating looked better earlier.


That's just a picture with poor lightning and no white balance, if he took a picture of anything at that same angle/lightning it wouldn't look good


----------



## Dreyka

By the time this mouse is released there is going to be so many other 3360 mice on the market that Finalmouse is going to be irrelevant. Logitech hurry up with the G200 already.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geForZ*
> 
> I'm just a combo of lazy and old-fashioned. What I meant by it being easier on LAN is that at the CS:GO majors for example, they have pre-built computers (only Steam and CS:GO installed) with very limited internet access. Going to download that stuff like Razer Synapse and Logitech G or whatever is a pain. That probably won't ever be a problem for me, but since I use a lot of different computers I still hate that ****. As for the on board memory, that's fantastic but a lot of the time settings don't stick on mice, idk why.


Most mice have onboard memory that allows you to set them up once with software and then use that configuration on whichever computer you use the mouse on.
Best way imo is what Mionix did with the Castor, having an exe that allows for changes to the mouse without any need to install it.

No software at all these says is just lazy.


----------



## a_ak57

I don't get why people act like Zowie-style button combos to change stuff and software are mutually exclusive. There's no reason you can't have both; only reason we don't see it is because people let companies get away with only putting in the effort for one. And worse we have people spreading misinformation and acting like software is some evil thing which allows companies to market "software-free!!" like it's actually a good thing.


----------



## ncck

Well I'm assuming there S1 will have some type of software or a way for people to change the mouse settings around (aka firmware changing) so I'm guessing qxs is going to make some super elite firmware for it that everyone will use









But yeah tiny software for changing settings is a good thing for sure


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> "Thanks for writing in. I do know about the FM and scream version and we do get some requests for it though its a pretty niche mouse. There needs to be sufficient demand to justify the production costs.
> 
> Emails like yours do help us determine what mice to consider.
> 
> Best Regards and Happy Gaming,"


Anyone who is interested in trying to get 'hyperglide' mouse skates for this mouse send a request to

[email protected]

Maybe if they get enough e-mails they will consider starting production. Jude if you're reading this maybe throwing out a tweet about it would really help, and scream himself use to use hyperglides and loved them: http://www.hyperglide.net/comments/scream.html

So if you could get him to tweet out about it too I think that would really help (and it'd help users like me who love hyperglides) - since your TP/S1 have the same feet dimensions and no crazy shapes it should be very possible for them to do this


----------



## Bucake

such genuine comments
this, they don't see

one taps baby


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> such genuine comments
> this, they don't see
> 
> one taps baby


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Anyone who is interested in trying to get 'hyperglide' mouse skates for this mouse send a request to
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Maybe if they get enough e-mails they will consider starting production. Jude if you're reading this maybe throwing out a tweet about it would really help, and scream himself use to use hyperglides and loved them: http://www.hyperglide.net/comments/scream.html
> 
> So if you could get him to tweet out about it too I think that would really help (and it'd help users like me who love hyperglides) - since your TP/S1 have the same feet dimensions and no crazy shapes it should be very possible for them to do this


then finalmouse screamone can use Hyperglide MS Optical 1.1/Explorer 3.0 skates?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Slowly but surely moving through August now. A voting poll should be started for who thinks FM will finally drop the Scream One this month or delay it longer. Who's got their $ on which scenario?

Will it Deliver?

Or

Will the hype be too much & it will fall flat?

Vegas is takin' bets now. Lol


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Slowly but surely moving through August now. A voting poll should be started for who thinks FM will finally drop the Scream One this month or delay it longer. Who's got their $ on which scenario?
> 
> Will it Deliver?
> 
> Or
> 
> Will the hype be too much & it will fall flat?
> 
> Vegas is takin' bets now. Lol


Surely the answer is obvious. August has already hit and there's been no word from them, only from ScreaM himself using what could potentially be a shell with a lightbulb in it.

Crazy to think I saw a USED Ergo 2015 edition sell on Ebay for £120


----------



## Shwiqo6434

..


----------



## aayman_farzand

Should've posted this sooner, but they already confirmed to me via email that they might not meet the mid-late August release date. It will have the biggest launch across the countries, but the date is still uncertain.


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm guessing qxs is going to make some super elite firmware for it that everyone will use


Is it bad that I hope he doesn't?

Sure, it's a nice feature to have, but considering how much flak FM has taken the cynic in me thinks they are incapable of producing good firmware themselves. Making it customisable so end users can fix their problems for them (perhaps even copied for future products) makes it seem like a cop out to me.


----------



## whiteweazel21

No way it could be worse than the Nixeus Revel. Waiting on this baby and the Logitech. Better to wait then get a rushed product, too bad it's not faster but that's a double-edged sword.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm guessing qxs is going to make some super elite firmware for it that everyone will use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it bad that I hope he doesn't?
> 
> Sure, it's a nice feature to have, but considering how much flak FM has taken the cynic in me thinks they are incapable of producing good firmware themselves. Making it customisable so end users can fix their problems for them (perhaps even copied for future products) makes it seem like a cop out to me.
Click to expand...

not happening
got better things to do

and i'm not familiar with arm/nxp platform
but if anyone else wants to have a go at it, i'm always willing to share knowledge/experience.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Should've posted this sooner, but they already confirmed to me via email that they might not meet the mid-late August release date. It will have the biggest launch across the countries, but the date is still uncertain.


Bad news if they do miss this month but it's not unexpected. We've been led on so much it may be an actual surprise when it is finally released.

Some even say 'if' it is ever released. Lol


----------



## Alya

Boy, FinalStraw delaying yet again? Who would've guessed?


----------



## Ihateallmice

no way, again? hahahahahahahaahaha jesus are they trying to release a mouse or make a comedy movie at this point?


----------



## wareya

Final-Mouse 3


----------



## Bucake

FinalDelay? will it be worth the FinalWait?


----------



## wareya

I guess the finalmouse really was their final mouse


----------



## Bucake

haha am i the only one who thinks "finalmouse" is a seriously stupid name. it's so stupid it almost makes me mad


----------



## wareya

I thought it was funny for a few weeks then I realized they were serious


----------



## a_ak57

Finalmouse was a cheesy but understandable marketing gimmick when they first came out with a mouse ("the final mouse you'll ever need to buy" or whatever it was), but once they decided to make another it became pretty dumb. And became hilariously dumb when jude was talking about their plans to release a bunch of variants.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> then finalmouse screamone can use Hyperglide MS Optical 1.1/Explorer 3.0 skates?


no, they can actually make feet with the same dimensions as FM - but they'll only do it if it's profitable aka if a lot of users want it. Jude would probably have to push for it to make it happen (which he should) and scream would be behind it because he used to use those skates, honestly they're the best and don't really have any competition - but they do take a long time to make new ones

Also for future products they make I hope they change the side coating, feels like ABS on a keyboard where it gets shiny/slippery.. that's my one 'big' con of the mouse is I can't get a solid grip on it, even then still poops on my ZA as much as I hate to say it just being honest.. but ZA's coating was the grippiest rubber coating I've ever touched.. was super nice, sweat or dry hands I had a grip - they did a sick job with that


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I plan to rock the TP until the scream drops then compare how the two compare sensor wise & other aspects such as how the mouse feels with the S1's sensor position being different, buttons & weight. Alllllso obviously with them taking so long the QC better be better than the ergo & TP issues they had right?? Well as i reported mine had scuffs on the mouse 1 & 2's. I sent it back to Amazon. Well bae said hey i'll get you a TP to use for 30 days until the S1 comes so you can compare them how you wanna..nice of her i know. Well it came today.

This copy has scuff marks on mouse 1 & 2 as well......


----------



## ncck

They all have the same scuffs afaik, not sure but I think they do their own qc before shipping with a machine and it probably got scratched in the process

So for me basically I need to see the same thing, which is will the 3360 really beat the 3310 @ 500 and how will the raised sensor feel.

Like I said before I'm not sure it will and the only thing I really need to change is the mouse skates. Forv whatever reason the glide is fairly slow and it makes lifting feel a little weird (I think the sharp feet grab the threads of the cloth a little). Also the side grip needs to change but I can deal with it everything else feels like it's pretty good. Scrolling, the hair trigger clicks are very good, and yeah it's not bad like people were saying I prefer it over many mice just minor things which will probably pan out over time. I'm curious also if the 3360 performs better at 1000 or 500 cause 3310 is def better at 500 for me, slow movements seem to pick up better


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They all have the same scuffs afaik, not sure but I think they do their own qc before shipping with a machine and it probably got scratched in the process
> 
> So for me basically I need to see the same thing, which is will the 3360 really beat the 3310 @ 500 and how will the raised sensor feel.
> 
> Like I said before I'm not sure it will and the only thing I really need to change is the mouse skates. Forv whatever reason the glide is fairly slow and it makes lifting feel a little weird (I think the sharp feet grab the threads of the cloth a little). Also the side grip needs to change but I can deal with it everything else feels like it's pretty good. Scrolling, the hair trigger clicks are very good, and yeah it's not bad like people were saying I prefer it over many mice just minor things which will probably pan out over time. I'm curious also if the 3360 performs better at 1000 or 500 cause 3310 is def better at 500 for me, slow movements seem to pick up better


I have noticed with the mouse that it seems slower with my usual sens. I noticed it right off the bat when hopping in the game. I'll adjust as i use it more.

As for the scuffs. Just shouldn't happen. Idk what it is but as said it doesn't effect the buttons.

The performance & shape are fine by me. I like both. We'll see how the S1 is, & if it steps up Fm's game or not. They have been cooking this one up a long while.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They all have the same scuffs afaik, not sure but I think they do their own qc before shipping with a machine and it probably got scratched in the process
> 
> So for me basically I need to see the same thing, which is will the 3360 really beat the 3310 @ 500 and how will the raised sensor feel.
> 
> Like I said before I'm not sure it will and the only thing I really need to change is the mouse skates. Forv whatever reason the glide is fairly slow and it makes lifting feel a little weird (I think the sharp feet grab the threads of the cloth a little). Also the side grip needs to change but I can deal with it everything else feels like it's pretty good. Scrolling, the hair trigger clicks are very good, and yeah it's not bad like people were saying I prefer it over many mice just minor things which will probably pan out over time. I'm curious also if the 3360 performs better at 1000 or 500 cause 3310 is def better at 500 for me, slow movements seem to pick up better


Are you guys sure those "scuffs" aren't the injection points from the molding process?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> Are you guys sure those "scuffs" aren't the injection points from the molding process?


Exactly what I figured they were from when I heard the description.


----------



## ncck

No I'm not sure that was my guess, sorry didn't intend for it to sound like a fact

Yeah phiz I think it's the sharp mouse feet helping it be slower. I'm used to it already but I'll probably slap some hypers on it


----------



## ayktekc

FİnalMouse 2015 Ergo can easily malfunction above Puretrak Talent also its not stable. So what is your mousepad recommandation for FinalMouse Scream One? Puretrak Talent is not good idea i think because its not fully black


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ayktekc*
> 
> FİnalMouse 2015 Ergo can easily malfunction above Puretrak Talent also its not stable. So what is your mousepad recommandation for FinalMouse Scream One? Puretrak Talent is not good idea i think because its not fully black


https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Heavy-Gaming-Mouse-Mat/dp/B00NOD0GX6/


----------



## ayktekc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Heavy-Gaming-Mouse-Mat/dp/B00NOD0GX6/


I have QCK+ as well and FinalMouse Ergo 2015 is not stable on QCK+ too. So I think I have bad sensor
Also this mousepad is looking like zowie gt-f i wasn't happy with gt-f by the way is it hybrid pad or just a rubber pad with stitching in the corners


----------



## ncck

Anyone have a screenshot of the weight of this thing on a scale? (tournament pro) I don't have my own scale


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Anyone have a screenshot of the weight of this thing on a scale? (tournament pro) I don't have my own scale


Here you go sir, bottom right.


----------



## whiteweazel21

I think I'm gonna have to go with the new Logitech mouse. This one looks nice, but it appears the 3360 is not as good as the 3366. Would be interesting if they were able to fix anything via firmware. The g303 is really nice, but the shape is absolutely killing me.


----------



## whiteweazel21

I'm kind of curious though, does anyone know the reason Finalmouse puts black tape over the sensor? Does that give any performance benefits to mouses in general?


----------



## chr1spe

Probably to prevent light from the decorative leds leaking in.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

In theory it could help cheap illumination. Usually see tape in cheap mice. Too cheap to pay for an actual lens cover.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> I'm kind of curious though, does anyone know the reason Finalmouse puts black tape over the sensor? Does that give any performance benefits to mouses in general?


. anti dust


----------



## Evovil

I thought people were joking when they said the new Logitech mouse would be out before the scream 1. As each day passes it looks more and more like a reality.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> I thought people were joking when they said the new Logitech mouse would be out before the scream 1. As each day passes it looks more and more like a reality.


The G200 is already finished afaik(it's been used in 1-2 tournaments now), they're probably just in the process of producing and distribution - I literally expect it to be available to order during gamescom or 1-2 weeks after from logitech's website (guess)

The S1 seems like it's done as well but I don't think it's as far along as logitech


----------



## a_ak57

It's likely Logitech will have released two 3366 mice since the original release date of the S1.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's likely Logitech will have released two 3366 mice since the original release date of the S1.


It was supposed to be March/April originally right? Now we are inching towards September & it's still not out.


----------



## SpiLLi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> It was supposed to be March/April originally right? Now we are inching towards September & it's still not out.


yeah last year it was made to seem almost ready for a Feb/March release. And has been constantly pushed back since. Honestly dont even know if ill buy it at this point. I know it wont be great for me because i have smaller hands (around 17.5cm) but im sure ill want to review it _sigh_ the burden


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpiLLi*
> 
> yeah last year it was made to seem almost ready for a Feb/March release. And has been constantly pushed back since. Honestly dont even know if ill buy it at this point. I know it wont be great for me because i have smaller hands (around 17.5cm) but im sure ill want to review it _sigh_ the burden


You have to test it.....You have to.

side note, I do not really watch a gang of CS:GO streams personally. I am trying not to get pulled in by the game but I have friends yelling at me to buy it....any-damn-way, anyone who watches Screams streams. Has he been using the S1 since posting about how it feels "really crazy good" or is he still using his Ergo FM?


----------



## SpiLLi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You have to test it.....You have to.
> 
> side note, I do not really watch a gang of CS:GO streams personally. I am trying not to get pulled in by the game but I have friends yelling at me to buy it....any-damn-way, anyone who watches Screams streams. Has he been using the S1 since posting about how it feels "really crazy good" or is he still using his Ergo FM?


idk its hard to say, he said hes using it but that could be just marketing as he doesn't really use a mouse cam or anything so its hard to tell what hes actually using. Im not sure if the shape suits scream honestly, hes always used ergo mice. He first used an IME, then a DA, then a FM ergo. I have a hard time believing he all of a sudden wants to use an ambi mouse. but i could be wrong.

plus isnt there a ton of speculation that there will be a "ScreaM 2" that is an IME clone.


----------



## plath

Oh dear, Logitech release yet another Finalmouse killer. R.I.P.


----------



## NovaGOD

Not necessarily, the Logitech one looks really small and uncomfortable for palm grip, s1 has a better shape imo. Ofc I expect better sensor implementation better buttons and build quality from Logitech.


----------



## woll3




----------



## Maximillion

Soon tho™


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> I emailed them a few days ago. They said it's now being released late September but they said it's "solely tentative" which means there's still a (high) chance it's getting released after September.


anyway, will be funny when it finally gets released. too late, too expensive and probably too bad


----------



## SpiLLi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> anyway, will be funny when it finally gets released. too late, too expensive and probably too bad


feel like this is a case of too little too late for them.

It was super hyped at first because 1) ScreaM 2) it was going to be one of the first mice with a 3360 sensor with a decent shape

now it really has nothing. Tons of mice out now with the 3360 and im still very skeptical about build quality. Im not the type of person that thinks just because it isn't heavy its cheap, because i love lightweight mice. But every FM I've used has felt hollow and cheaply made. For Mice that all cost 70+ $ id really expect more. FM really only lives off the hype at this point because there's companies offering way more for way less.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Yea idk, logitech mouse is cheaper, lighter, and better sensor. gg


----------



## frunction

I'm still interested in this mouse since it appears to have a good shape. What is the actual grip width on it? I'm hoping over 55mm up front. The Logitech G Pro I feel will be too small for me.

Maybe I missed it, but does Finalmouse provide good explanations for delays?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but does Finalmouse provide good explanations for delays?


lol


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> lol


aaaaaahahahahahahaa


----------



## Bucake

finalwho


----------



## john88

I listed my week old new version tournament pro on ebay as soon as I'd heard about the new logitech mouse release haha.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Did you list it with your SM-N910V using Tapatalk?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## john88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Did you list it with your SM-N910V using Tapatalk?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

You should it's very convenient.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Bucake

why are you dissing the SM-N910V? or is it Tapatalk you are dissing?
kind of rude, and unnecessary

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

No, I find sending stuff via my SM-N910V using tapatalk to be great actually. I am in no way shaming anyone that sends things via their SM-N910V using tapatalk.

I would rather you not project your issues with those that send things with SM-910V using tapatalk on to me Bucake. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ralloff

"All these replies in the thread suddenly; maybe the mouse if finally dropping or something. Oh. Nevermind. It's just a whole bunch of SM-N910V using Tapatalk comments. Sweet." ~Me

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## john88

Wohoo the mouse already sold!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Congratulations.

Tapatalk from my SM-N910V using Sent


----------



## Melan

Should've been "Congratulations from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk".


----------



## equlix

Are we going to have a party for john88 since he sold his mouse?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Maximillion

Sure, why not? It's not like we're having a Scream One release party.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> It's not like we're having a Scream One release party.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Savage AF

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ralloff*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john88*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Melan

I never said "Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk", because I hate shovelphones regardless of brand.


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I never said "Sent from my SM-910V using Tapatalk", because I hate shovelphones regardless of brand.


You sure did...









I know you actually didn't


----------



## Ino.

Because of you guys I had to look up what the SM-910V actually is...

Bit I like that we have one page of just tapatalk trash talking in this thread.


----------



## Zhuni

This mouse people don't see. This mouse, it does not show up in highlights.

Probably a repost

http://1080.plus/They_Talk_About_My_One_Taps_-Scream-_[SFM]_-CS_GO_by_LICHTENSTEIN/_RAkDWpYByA.video


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Generic esports player #3893208 one taps.


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> This mouse people don't see. This mouse, it does not show up in highlights.
> 
> Probably a repost
> 
> http://1080.plus/They_Talk_About_My_One_Taps_-Scream-_[SFM]_-CS_GO_by_LICHTENSTEIN/_RAkDWpYByA.video


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Generic esports player #3893208 one taps.


I think its hilarious u kids talking **** about ScreaM. U wouldn't say this **** to him at LAN, hes jacked, not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants, and hangs with the hottest guys. Yall are pathetic lol.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *itsn0mad*
> 
> and hangs with the hottest guys.


.......


----------



## Bucake

@woll3 it's a copy pasta meme


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> .......


Don't blame me, blame the guy who made that copypasta.


----------



## woll3

RIP CS.

Edit:

Its also 2016 and i still havent bothered to look up what tapatalk is.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> RIP CS.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Its also 2016 and i still havent bothered to look up what tapatalk is.


It's some type of forum plugin for phones


----------



## Demi9OD

I hear the young whippersnappers are calling those phone plugins apps nowadays.


----------



## geForZ

On my iPhone 4S it would just pop that at the end of any sentence that I texted up on the internet. I'm not sure it would qualify as an app.


----------



## Melan

Go away with your iPhone you apple sheep.

I'm a happy iPhone 5S user my self.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but does Finalmouse provide good explanations for delays?


Hello,

We have been making quite a few changes/improvements to the firmware last second. Week before MCU's were going in we got a chance to test on a motion stage and some additional new hardware.. protocol analyzer, etc....

Turns out there were tiny things we could further optimize even though no one would have ever known. We changed how the burst motion reads work completely, so instead of having main loop timer request motion burst reads every 1ms and then attempting to sync with usb, we modified the motion reads to integrate completely with the USB SOF interrupt.

This was the biggest change, got way smoother data (without actually smoothing) more consistent, etc....

There were other tiny changes we made for optimal performance as well.

And then we went back and had to debug everything, test everything again, send new firmware to Scream and other pros we will be working with to test.... Every engineering change needs to be backed by a pro playing and validating the performance in game.

I understand people are frustrated with the delays and how long this is taking, as are we... but our goal for this mouse is to serve as the base for many models that will be going into the hands of many top players and teams in the coming months. So the name of the game for us is purely optimal performance for CS:GO and esports. It had to be good enough for Scream to switch from the classic ergo while he was at the top of his game (and some other players i cant mention yet).... and we believe it should feel that good for anyone else. If anyone uses it and doesnt feel like its helping their game, email support and return it. Even if its 3 months after the fact. Just mention my name and say you want a refund.

But if the delays have been too long then trust me I understand. That is our fault for not delivering when we promised.

Kind Regards,
Jude


----------



## Melan

Well, most online reviews are rubbish anyways when it comes to mice. Especially when they get around to "sensor feels [enter_feels_here]".


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, most online reviews are rubbish anyways when it comes to mice. Especially when they get around to "sensor feels [enter_feels_here]".


but dude, the finalmouse is so snappy. it's like, the most responsive mouse i've ever experienced. it's just so raw.


----------



## equlix

We summond Jude with our sacred tapatalk chants.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

meme thread for the mototech mememouse


----------



## chr1spe

I think final is supposed to mean last one to come out. We all just got confused.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> but dude, the finalmouse is so snappy. it's like, the most responsive mouse i've ever experienced. it's just so raw.


Hey, at least responsive actually had a meaning. You can measure the response time of something. Snappy and raw are just fluff though.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Hey, at least responsive actually had a meaning. You can measure the response time of something. Snappy and raw are just fluff though.


which makes it even funnier, because "responsive" has been misused many a times as well. (3988 and 3310 most responsive sensors! especially this one with the good implementation!)
edit: haha, mcu smoothing

but raw and snappy should more or less mean the same thing in this context anyway, so imo they're all on the same street when it comes to misused.. terms
for some, i guess raw could mean 1:1 movement (low jitter), rather than responsive?
pretty sure most guys using these terms are talking out of their something anyway. in 99% of the cases it's probably just the shape, weight and feet that makes them control the mouse well. yes yes, very responsive sensor dude..

snappy is maybe a word better used for buttons or switches or something, or for snapping turtles.
raw should probably not be used at all

good talk dude


----------



## Dylan Nails

thought this forum liked good mice so not sure why this has 138 pages. enjoy paying $80-100 for a mouse with a nerdy signature and bright LED's u cant turn off and have 5 dpi steps with a sensor that can have 100's of dpi steps, not to mention dat finalmouse build quality. whos actually buying this over the new logitech mouse lol?


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> thought this forum liked good mice so not sure why this has 138 pages. enjoy paying $80-100 for a mouse with a nerdy signature and bright LED's u cant turn off and have 5 dpi steps with a sensor that can have 100's of dpi steps, not to mention dat finalmouse build quality. whos actually buying this over the new logitech mouse lol?


----------



## a_ak57

Jude, I'm confused why you guys are doing so much work to make the mouse as raw as possible (which btw you shouldn't have to do anything with a 3360) when you used to talk about how your pros prefer smoothing and that's why you guys totally intentionally had it on the previous mice.

Also when are you going to stop listing the misleading weights of your other mice? You said well over half a year ago that you'd fix that.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Not sure what you mean by making it more raw. That's not what we are optimizing. Motion data has never been affected in the s1 from the beginning of development. We are just trying to fine tune how this happens and make sure it's optimal code. SOF is an interrupt timer from what I've been told. We are using that because it is very tight/accurate. So reports are very consistent/clean as opposed to other methods. And button polling gets to stay at 1ms with these modifications .


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We have been making quite a few changes/improvements to the firmware last second. Week before MCU's were going in we got a chance to test on a motion stage and some additional new hardware.. protocol analyzer, etc....


pics or didn't happen
Quote:


> Turns out [there were tiny things we could further optimize even though *no one would have ever known.* We changed how the burst motion reads work completely, so instead of having main loop timer request motion burst reads every 1ms and then attempting to sync with usb, we modified the motion reads to integrate completely with the USB SOF interrupt.


i knew and i told you lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> your internal timer isn't sync'd to usb frames


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> SOF is an interrupt timer from what I've been told. We are using that because it is very tight/accurate. So reports are very consistent/clean as opposed to other methods.


SOF stands for "start of frame"
and yes it's what you want your main loop to be synchronized to. not sure about nxp's stuff, but for avr you can get the timing via an interrupt or via polling the corresponding flag (SOFI in UDINT).


----------



## ncck

Well hopefully their plan is to release multiple shapes after they finish this whole PCB thing

Then maybe they can make a lightweight high height similar to the ec. That'd be dope and would mess up zowie cause FM clicks are much better

Need to get on that rubber cable train tho


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well hopefully their plan is to release multiple shapes after they finish this whole PCB thing
> 
> Then maybe they can make a lightweight high height similar to the ec. That'd be dope and would mess up zowie cause FM clicks are much better
> 
> Need to get on that rubber cable train tho


I wish all the companys would make clones of the popular shapes.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Well we found its better to get rid of our main loops request. So instead of reading motion bursts all the time and then grabbing during whatever timer or interrupt (SOF included) we instead just do a burst motion read once per SOF. And a burst motion read will always be ready in time for that frame.


----------



## qsxcv

yup that's how logitech does it too and it's how it should be done









now see if you can get 8khz working


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We would need another MCU I think


----------



## qsxcv

i could do it on an 8MHz avr


----------



## jsx3

It doesn't really matter as long as their poster boy can frag.


----------



## e4stw00t

I just hope you put as much effort in improving the built quality - in contrast to the aspects you worked on lately those are noticeable flaws in your product range to date!


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> I just hope you put as much effort in improving the built quality - in contrast to the aspects you worked on lately those are noticeable flaws in your product range to date!


This!

It seems like FM is trying hard to create a decent and competitive product but that wont be enough if they don't fix their previous problems with some components and build quality, nobody wants another Razer, I want a better Logitech.. Let me dream lol

Shape ✔
Enginnering ✔
Build quality (?)


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> FM
> trying hard


Pick one.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> This!
> 
> It seems like FM is trying hard to create a decent and competitive product but that wont be enough if they don't fix their previous problems with some components and build quality, nobody wants another Razer, I want a better Logitech.. Let me dream lol
> 
> Shape ✔
> Enginnering ✔
> Build quality (?)


I think Logitech has Build Quality and Engineering down but their designers for the shape can be questionable at times. Some people just want a vanilla looking mouse that does the job, not an alien spaceship from Star Trek with Omrons.

As for FM, they remind me of a poor man's Razer company. All the hype, okay products, but boy do their mice feel cheap. Nothing wrong with a mouse feeling cheap as long as the buttons and sensor are off the chart, but my ergo FM lasted me 6 days before it conked out (thankfully Amazon's return policy is effortless and amazing). And what a surprise, FM acknowledged that most of their customers wanted a mouse with a 1000hz polling rate. They actually listened!


----------



## Maximillion

Cool thread. Can't wait for the September update. Should be the most enthralling yet.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I think Logitech has Build Quality and Engineering down but their designers for the shape can be questionable at times.


Seriously the past years I frequently checked Logitech's background to be sure they are not (in the meantime) a German company - the amount of over-engineering in some of the mice they launched the past years was ridiculous.


----------



## plath

They are Swiss so there's prolly some Germans working there.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Seriously the past years I frequently checked Logitech's background to be sure they are not (in the meantime) a German company - the amount of over-engineering in some of the mice they launched the past years was ridiculous.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Cool thread. Can't wait for the September update. Should be the most enthralling yet.


really hope comes out in sept...can t wait more with g502...so heavy and don t like the shape


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Seriously the past years I frequently checked Logitech's background to be sure they are not (in the meantime) a German company - the amount of over-engineering in some of the mice they launched the past years was ridiculous.


Nah, its just irish whiskey.

I wouldnt say that they are "overengineered", it is more like that some mistakes in the detail have been made that probably arent going to be repeated, imo it also comes into play that G402 and G302 should have been a few years earlier. I personally dont have anything against "spaceships" as long as they are functional, bringing both together, design and functionality should be what its all about.


----------



## plath

They make their mice look like stupid spaceships because they're trying market the products as aspirational in the eyes of kids. Rather than products for people who already know what they want and have money.

Compare a Zowie product launch with a Logitech one. The difference is that Logitech's ad agency tells them to design the mouse gaudy and have as many USPs as possible: sniper buttons, gyroscopes, Mad Catz styling.


----------



## SpiLLi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> They make their mice look like stupid spaceships because they're trying market the products as aspirational in the eyes of kids. Rather than products for people who already know what they want and have money.
> 
> Compare a Zowie product launch with a Logitech one. The difference is that Logitech's ad agency tells them to design the mouse gaudy and have as many USPs as possible: sniper buttons, gyroscopes, Mad Catz styling.


Have you not seen the new Logitech G pro? They basically gave everyone exactly what they want. And people need to get off the Zowie high horse. I was a zowie user until very recently, yes they probably make the best shapes. But other than that their implementations are mediocre, almost every one of their mice has terrible scroll wheels and side buttons along with (preference) terribly stiff m1/m2. I love Zowie's shapes, but people need to stop acting like they're the end all be all in mice.


----------



## plath

Yeah maybe it's in the past now, but it was the case for the last few mice e.g. g402, g303 and g502.

They may have finally changed their ways with the Logitech Gaming Mouse and/or G900.

I don't prefer Zowie to Logitech, I just dislike Logitech's last few mice.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> They make their mice look like stupid spaceships because they're trying market the products as aspirational in the eyes of kids. Rather than products for people who already know what they want and have money.
> 
> Compare a Zowie product launch with a Logitech one. The difference is that Logitech's ad agency tells them to design the mouse gaudy and have as many USPs as possible: sniper buttons, gyroscopes, Mad Catz styling.


Yea they do, in the end it's business. They will do what sales the most, they may look like space ships, but they sale like hotcakes.

I said this before, older Logitech had safer shapes. However they are so far ahead of the game that they took chances this time around and it stilllllll worked out for them. The 502 is a constant best seller, the 302/303 did not do horribly by any means. The G900 keeps getting great reviews and lots of positivity surrounding it(except that price). Now they have the G pro to go along with the rest of the line up. Showing 'hey we can give people something safer that they want. All while taking these chances(or innovating) at the same time".

As for Zowie, I love them too. They just have to address the scroll & EC side buttons. Maybe they have some stuff up those sleeves for the next releases of their mice.


----------



## ncck

If zowie can get good clicks, side buttons. Scroll, they will literally own even more of the fps market

Their new coating on the mice is insane and so grippy.. but their buttons suck so much

I give it up to FM though their m1/m2 is one of the most responsive I've tried


----------



## plath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea they do, in the end it's business. They will do what sales the most, they may look like space ships, but they sale like hotcakes.
> 
> I said this before, older Logitech had safer shapes. However they are so far ahead of the game that they took chances this time around and it stilllllll worked out for them. The 502 is a constant best seller, the 302/303 did not do horribly by any means. The G900 keeps getting great reviews and lots of positivity surrounding it(except that price). Now they have the G pro to go along with the rest of the line up. Showing 'hey we can give people something safer that they want. All while taking these chances(or innovating) at the same time".
> 
> As for Zowie, I love them too. They just have to address the scroll & EC side buttons. Maybe they have some stuff up those sleeves for the next releases of their mice.


Logitech have been rubbish for enthusiast customers. They could've launched this mouse earlier. The g502 came out with the 3366 sensor in early 2014 and after that the proteus core and g303 & g900.

It took them two years to produce this mouse even though it's what people like those on OCN have been asking for since the g502 came out, whilst they sold their gimmick mice marketed for teens instead.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> They could've launched this mouse earlier. The g502 came out with the 3366 sensor in early 2014 and after that the proteus core and g303 & g900.
> 
> It took them two years to produce this mouse even though it's what people like those on OCN have been asking for since the g502 came out, whilst they sold their mice marketed for teens instead.


What do you mean 'after that'? The 502 is the proteus core.

Logi said they coulda dropped the g pro earlier but some things pro's brought up made them go back and change some things. Whether you believe that is entirely up to you. As said before, it is still about business. We are the minority here on OCN as it is, so we get brushed over quite often Nothing new. It's expected. The 502 did what they intended for it to do, so they certainly made the right choice for them. I don't care for the mouse a whole lot, but it's made them $.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> Logitech have been rubbish for enthusiast customers. They could've launched this mouse earlier. The g502 came out with the 3366 sensor in early 2014 and after that the proteus core and g303 & g900.
> 
> It took them two years to produce this mouse even though it's what people like those on OCN have been asking for since the g502 came out, whilst they sold their gimmick mice marketed for teens instead.


The g303 is great for enthusiast if you like the shape and while the shape is polarizing it is extremely good for some people like me. I will definitely be getting the G Pro at some point, most likely black friday sales assuming there is a decent one, but at this point I think the odds are fairly high I will stick with the G303. Its been a bit since I've played with a lighter mouse so maybe the 6g difference or whatever will win me over, but I find the g303 shape at least as good as the g100s shape. Also I've heard the back of the G Pro is slightly wider which if anything will cause annoyance for me. Hopefully it isn't enough of a change to cause that, but I strongly prefer mice with narrow butts.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> Logitech have been rubbish for enthusiast customers. They could've launched this mouse earlier. The g502 came out with the 3366 sensor in early 2014 and after that the proteus core and g303 & g900.
> 
> It took them two years to produce this mouse even though it's what people like those on OCN have been asking for since the g502 came out, whilst they sold their gimmick mice marketed for teens instead.


This niche market you're promoting doesn't move units like that. The G502 is their best seller and probably by a clean wide margin too. Don't get ahead of yourself.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> This niche market you're promoting doesn't move units like that. The G502 is their best seller and probably by a clean wide margin too. Don't get ahead of yourself.


exactly


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> This niche market you're promoting doesn't move units like that. The G502 is their best seller and probably by a clean wide margin too. Don't get ahead of yourself.


Yeah. Even with the G Pro, they've went after the *E S P O R T Z Z Z Z* fairly aggressively ("Pro Gaming" in the name, Semphis endorsement, etc) to compensate for the lack of gimmicks on the mouse itself.
It's the same deal as Zowie. Target the audience of people who will buy anything their favorite pro player uses.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Guys we already have 3 threads for the G Pro, let's not make this another one.

Edit: @FinalmouseJude, is Scream using the mouse full time or only beta testing? He has two matches against Navi tomorrow. Lets see if the old monster is back.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Guys we already have 3 threads for the G Pro, let's not make this another one.
> 
> Edit: @FinalmouseJude, is Scream using the mouse full time or only beta testing? He has two matches against Navi tomorrow. Lets see if the old monster is back.


With this tapping update I'm sure well see him tapping a lot more, but don't expect him to suddenly be the god he was at one point because of a mouse, it's all about game mechanics and them tweaking ScreaM to death.


----------



## aayman_farzand

https://twitter.com/SkyFly_sk/status/766032467841130497

Aiming for Mid-October now. Wonderful.


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> https://twitter.com/SkyFly_sk/status/766032467841130497
> 
> Aiming for Mid-October now. Wonderful.


I don't even know why to bother with it at this point. Just buy a G Pro or FK or something, this is ridiculous.


----------



## wareya

duke nukem effect


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

This forum is just hilarious. Lol


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## Dylan Nails

over half way there


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> https://twitter.com/SkyFly_sk/status/766032467841130497
> 
> Aiming for Mid-October now. Wonderful.


Ah yes, they won't release it until it's perfect. Perfect. I think perfect is a word Finalmouse should avoid just like they avoid honesty and quality control.


----------



## e4stw00t

Yeah with their pedigree I would have framed the message differently - that one will bite them in case the built quality of the S1 is somewhere reminiscent of their products so far or the S1 samples some of the forum users got their hands on.


----------



## mitavreb

This has 142 pages of discussion about a mouse that doesn't exist. I don't know why the mods haven't closed this thread yet.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> This has 142 pages of discussion about a mouse that doesn't exist.


OCN in a nutshell







at least we have to make it to 150 ahead of launch/cancellation.


----------



## Alya

Not saying I called another delay, but I called it.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

+1 deserved.


----------



## Gerald Amy

Do the company owner really thinks people would enjoy a signature like that on their mouse? lol


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> This has 142 pages of discussion about a mouse that doesn't exist. I don't know why the mods haven't closed this thread yet.


Reminds me of all the pre-hype that No Man's Sky got. Lmao


----------



## popups

FinalMouse got nothing on Mionix: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/206180815/quantified-gaming-know-more-game-better


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

last I checked craftsmanship meme mouse actually released the quantified or whatever the hell it's called mouse.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> FinalMouse got nothing on Mionix: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/206180815/quantified-gaming-know-more-game-better


i think i need me some jesus after watching that campaign


----------



## frunction

Too bad there's no left handed version so I can check my baitin' stats.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i think i need me some jesus after watching that campaign


The recently released Taidu mice seem to be much better. Which isn't saying much because "lol biometric mice lol".


----------



## MerkageTurk

Right when I purchased an m65 pro this thread pops up, is this better than corsair?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Right when I purchased an m65 pro this thread pops up, is this better than corsair?


This thread didn't pop up it's been here for a long time, and this mouse is not released yet


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> This thread didn't pop up it's been here for a long time, and this mouse is not *released* yet


Haha, *released*... as if xD


----------



## dutC4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Right when I purchased an m65 pro this thread pops up, is this better than corsair?


performance wise, basically any other 3360/66 mouse is better than the Corsair


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dutC4*
> 
> performance wise, basically any other 3360/66 mouse is better than the Corsair


Also currently from my testing 3366 feels a little more fluid than 3360 but I think that's on implementation and not the sensor itself


----------



## Trysaeder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Right when I purchased an m65 pro this thread pops up, is this better than corsair?


I wouldn't get the m65 at all because it is extremely heavy at 115g. I'm using the m45 which is 95g and it is already cumbersome for its size and shape.


----------



## MerkageTurk

I like heavy sturdy aluminium mouse

Plus the m65 pro has the 3360 sensor


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> I like heavy sturdy aluminium mouse
> 
> Plus the m65 pro has the 3360 sensor


Ok well then it's settled - you like the mouse so there's no reason to change it


----------



## MerkageTurk

Thanks, was thinking of getting the g502 too along with it, is it worth it?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Thanks, was thinking of getting the g502 too along with it, is it worth it?


I don't think it's worth buying multiple mice if you feel you have no reason to change. Generally when I change mice it's because the last one broke or has an inherent flaw. However recently I've done a full circle and ended back on the g303 - which will then be transitioned to the g pro and I will try to stop there if I'm comfortable and use it for a year or longer

If you're going to get ANOTHER mouse then make sure you return that one for a refund and do not waste your money. I always get full refunds via amazon before buying a new mouse when sending in one I just tested/tried


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Anyone recall this? Lol


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I doubt anyone could legitimately recall where this was from without searching.
Quote:


> The A3090 is an extremely robust sensor when it comes to it's options of configurations. The slightest tweak in the SROM can send the sensor in to, for lack of a better term, "a gamer's wet dream" or spiral it out of control with massive amounts of +/- acceleration and/or incorrect tracking paths.
> 
> With a bit of time and diligence, we were able to achieve some pretty impressive numbers as stated above across all DPI settings including the 500 step. As I said before, we really wanted to unleash the true potential of this sensor-


Enviado do meu A0001 através de Tapatalk


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I doubt anyone could legitimately recall where this was from without searching.
> Enviado do meu A0001 através de Tapatalk


http://www.overclock.net/t/930742/puretrak-valor-information-thread/470 ez

私のSM- N910V使用してTapatalkから送られてきました


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

You searched. You lose, you get nothing.









Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> You searched. You lose, you get nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


I may have cheated a tiny bit









Sent from my NCC-74656 using Tapatalk


----------



## Melan

That joke is so last week it's already covered in mold. Shame on you Seamus.

Sent from my T-1000 using Tapatalk


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "The Scream1 is undergoing production and we have ran into a few delays. These delays have been caused by a meticulous production process that we underestimated. We are striving for nothing short of perfection with these units. As a result, we apologize for the delays -- we expect the Scream1 to be available *mid-late August* at this time however this is solely tentative."
> 
> This thread needs to be locked.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evovil*
> 
> Uhmm... When when when? Tired of waiting for this mouse to finally hit stores. Also the firmware tweaking sounds awesome. If your going to pop in to tease us give us a little info.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone recall this? Lol


Shocker, FM misses ANOTHER release date timing lmao. Can we close this joke thread already?


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Shocker, FM misses ANOTHER release date timing lmao. Can we close this joke thread already?


You mean people are actually still waiting for this mouse???


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> You mean people are actually still waiting for this mouse???


Not me. Got a Revel already and a Logitech G Pro on pre-order lol. These goobers missed their chance with me.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Not me. Got a Revel already and a Logitech G Pro on pre-order lol. These goobers missed their chance with me.


Yeah funny how this was supposed to be the first 3360 mouse and not its probably going to be the last. they had a chance here and they blew it.

I was going to get a Revel until I read the reviews, the a DM 1 Pro s..then the G pro was announced and nothing else mattered after that. I'm pretty sure they only thing that may eventually kick the G Pro out would be an FK2 with the 3360 and we all know how long that's probably going to take.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loki993*
> 
> Yeah funny how this was supposed to be the first 3360 mouse and not its probably going to be the last. they had a chance here and they blew it.
> 
> I was going to get a Revel until I read the reviews, the a DM 1 Pro s..then the G pro was announced and nothing else mattered after that. I'm pretty sure they only thing that may eventually kick the G Pro out would be an FK2 with the 3360 and we all know how long that's probably going to take.


Even that wouldn't beat it unless zowie got better internals - the g pro and fk2 shouldn't be too far off in size - I mean yeah they're different but I can see one adjust between the two shapes easily - doubt zowie will ever beat logitech internals.. so you may just be a g pro for life boi


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Even that wouldn't beat it unless zowie got better internals - the g pro and fk2 shouldn't be too far off in size - I mean yeah they're different but I can see one adjust between the two shapes easily - doubt zowie will ever beat logitech internals.. so you may just be a g pro for life boi


Right and even if they somehow did it probably wouldn't be enough to justify another 70 dollar mouse.


----------



## Atavax

it would take another company actually like improving their product and not just copying a previous outside and sticking a new sensor in it. You know, how like the g502, g402, g302, g303, g900, and gPro have all been Logitech doing more than simply new sensor in the same mouse? Like the g100s/gPro's shape is ok for me, but i'm not in love with it, and the 3360 sensor is good enough, and heck, the scream will probably be a decent amount lighter than the gPro, the main thing that makes me doubt another company getting me to buy their new mouse are the left and right button clicks on Logitech's newest mice. Whenever i try another mouse now a days, thats the first thing i notice, these clicks aren't as good as Logitech's.


----------



## MaximusFleximus

I'm still waiting, but am not in a hurrry,.

As for as lightweigt feeling (extremely evenly distributed weight), lightness of button clicks and button lag (the absense of lag), and the direct feeling of the crosshairs moving when i move my hand, i have still not tried a better mouse than the old 2015 ergo i'm using at this moment still.

And i've tried a bunch, including the zowies and the logitechs.

So i'll wait patiently


----------



## daniel0731ex

Seems like FinalMouse should change its name to MessiahMouse -- if you are Jewish.


----------



## Atavax

Have they given a reason for the delay?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

The reason is their incompetence..


----------



## daniel0731ex

We cannot fathom the will of God. The MessiahMouse shall come when it is time.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> The reason is their incompetence..


why so salty?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Im not salty love.. Theres now been what more then half a year delay and you are calling me salty because im calling them incompetent? Ok


----------



## Dylan Nails

iirc their rep said the release date was march or something? and now its going to be released in 2017. i'd call that incompetence


----------



## ncck

The thread should honestly be temporarily locked until The rep has news to announce. Normally I'd never say this but it's pointless to keep all the joke posting going on even if funny


----------



## Bucake

it would only make the situation sadder and funnier if the thread would get locked. it would also just be a stupid decision from ocn's perspective

SENT WITH TAPATALK


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Nah. Since advertising is being paid, it won't be locked.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> iirc their rep said the release date was march or something? and now its going to be released in 2017. i'd call that incompetence


Tf2 was delayed like 7 years? Team was anything but incompetent.


----------



## a_ak57

did you really just compare putting a 3360 into a pre-existing mouse to creating and recreating an entire video game


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Tf2 was delayed like 7 years? Team was anything but incompetent.


1. Wasn't the same team during those 7 years
2. Wasn't constantly being worked on by a large team, was in concept work for a long time
3. Judging by the post-release support, they're pretty incompetent
4. Video game != Mouse
5. How much does Finalmouse pay you, I want some of that sweet money


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Well of course! Videogame development is similar!

While we are on the subject of vidya, i'll bring up this oldie:
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/looking-for-developer-to-make-simple-2d-mobile-game-ios-android.213626/


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *itsn0mad*
> 
> 1. Wasn't the same team during those 7 years
> 2. Wasn't constantly being worked on by a large team, was in concept work for a long time
> 3. Judging by the post-release support, they're pretty incompetent
> 4. Video game != Mouse
> 5. How much does Finalmouse pay you, I want some of that sweet money


Yeah, but we're talking 7 years vs less than 1. And originally it was going to be heavier than their previous mouse, now it's going to be lighter, so they definitely had a change of concept.

We know how large the team is working on it?

Do any of us know what it's like to develop a mouse or a video game? How many months did Ino beta test the gPro?

They don't pay me anything, but Final mouse, if you need a QA tester, hit me up


----------



## wareya

i mean if they actually have their own firmware programmer then the wait isn't hot air, the wait is the programmer learning how to write mouse firmware


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> i mean if they actually have their own firmware programmer then the wait isn't hot air, the wait is the programmer learning how to write mouse firmware


They had that guy from cooler master I believe.. or at least I think that's where he came from


----------



## Bucake

CM, yeah they always had the best firmware

i still think it's hilarious that we have mere hobbyists on these forums who can do a better/faster job than most of these companies


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They had that guy from cooler master I believe.. or at least I think that's where he came from


It was a marketing guy.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> It was a marketing guy.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Tf2 was delayed like 7 years? Team was anything but incompetent.


Tf2 is a bad game, and if it took them 7 years to remake TF then yes they are


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Tf2 is a bad game, and if it took them 7 years to remake TF then yes they are


TF2 is a better game than any other out there.

Also please hype i58 right now.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is a better game than any other out there.


Well thats a pretty bold statement :>


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Tf2 is a bad game











no


----------



## Atavax

there is obviously a certain amount of subjectivity to how good a game is. The art of TF2 is pretty great imo. The lines and humor of the game are pretty spot on. It has a great amount of variety in map and weapons.You can certainly make arguments in favor of other genre's or types of FPS, but i can't think of a class based FPS that comes close to doing as good a job.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is a better game than any other out there.
> 
> Also please hype i58 right now.


Mfw.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> there is obviously a certain amount of subjectivity to how good a game is. The art of TF2 is pretty great imo. The lines and humor of the game are pretty spot on. It has a great amount of variety in map and weapons.You can certainly make arguments in favor of other genre's or types of FPS, but i can't think of a class based FPS that comes close to doing as good a job.


Overwatch derp


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Overwatch derp


Never, OW is far too much based on Ultis.

OW is just prettier and new, but I'd take TF2 6v6 over OW any day. Don't compare OW to TF2 casual, or if you want imagine OW 24 player matches. That would be ultimate cancer.


----------



## ncck

OW and TF2 at high level are both very difficult - you can say overwatch is easy until you scrim against a top level team that rips you a new one - however the same can be said about TF2

Overall TF2 requires more coordination and higher individual skill - but the game isn't as 'fast' so to say, in OW a team wipe can happen in 5 seconds and there's so much screen clutter you won't know what hit you.. in TF2 you have an ubercharged soldier coming at you and then a scout on your flank and so fourth.. two very different games

Overall competitive matchmaking in OW is about 50x better than TF2, however in a proper competitive environment TF2 is 5x more balanced, requires higher skill, and has way less visual clutter.. OW is more accessible because you can climb the matchmaking ranks and face against pros - tf2 you need to manually look for matches and make a name for yourself before you can even 12man with good players - not as difficult as CSGO - CSGO I like to call closed competitive where the scene is basically invite only - if the pros don't like you you're not getting anywhere.. heck they can even vote you out of their pug league even if you play well lol

edit: This does not apply to TF2 with all the new guns and crap - I uninstalled way before it went overboard with hats/new weapons.. as soon as the liberty launcher came out I knew the game was over for me


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Overwatch derp


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Overwatch derp


Overwatch has the progression of abilities in a class based shooter that was needed. With class design, I feel like it's a wash between the two. Overwatch's emphasis on creating easy kills for beginners at the cost of fun, it's uninspired game modes, and lack of map variety; puts it well behind TF2 at the moment.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Never, OW is far too much based on Ultis.
> 
> OW is just prettier and new, but I'd take TF2 6v6 over OW any day. Don't compare OW to TF2 casual, or if you want imagine OW 24 player matches. That would be ultimate cancer.


Lol tf2 is the definition of casual dude. overwatch and cs are MUCH better than tf2 ever will be


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Lol tf2 is the definition of casual dude. overwatch and cs are MUCH better than tf2 ever will be


nope, TF2 competitive is definitely not casual.








lots of skill-based mechanics in that game.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Never, OW is far too much based on Ultis.
> 
> OW is just prettier and new, but I'd take TF2 6v6 over OW any day. Don't compare OW to TF2 casual, or if you want imagine OW 24 player matches. That would be ultimate cancer.


OW is still pretty new though, give it some time to mature.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Lol tf2 is the definition of casual dude. overwatch and cs are MUCH better than tf2 ever will be


Like I said, look at 6s not public. Also CS is a very different and very boring game.

A lot of the best OW players come from TF2 btw, I don't follow OW too closely but from memory seagull, tviq, taimou, clockwork, dummy,... Many more, but I cba to look them up


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quake anyone?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> OW is still pretty new though, give it some time to mature.


Yep, in time it might become better than tf2. Not there yet though.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Quake anyone?


quake champions is quake's last leg, we'll see if it's any good.. quake live was a bummer for me personally - the browser aspect really hurt them too.. we're with a different generation now though don't forget


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Like I said, look at 6s not public. Also CS is a very different and very boring game.
> 
> A lot of the best OW players come from TF2 btw, I don't follow OW too closely but from memory seagull, tviq, taimou, clockwork, dummy,... Many more, but I cba to look them up


not sure how good the teams they're in are performing in OW atm, but:
knoxxx, zappis, milo, enigma, hymzi, numlocked, zebbosai, dikker, kensi, cypher, degun, nico, baud, flippy, hidan, exon, harbleu, shadowburn, forsak3n, powah, dahang, mangachu, pyyyour, cozen, shrugger, flame, papasmurf..
still missing a bunch

anyway, @dylan the only reason any of them are good overwatch players is because they played tf2 for years and years (ask them why).
most of them would still be playing tf2 if it wasn't for valve's misjudgment (they don't seem to understand anymore what the game is, what it could be, or what it needs).
and the only reason overwatch is big is because blizzard is backing it and pushing it,
there was just too little incentive for hardcore / pro players to play tf2 - in the end it was simply about money


----------



## itsn0mad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Lol tf2 is the definition of casual dude. overwatch and cs are MUCH better than tf2 ever will be


As an unabashed Overwatch fanboy and player, you're delusional. Overwatch is far more casual than TF2.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> quake champions is quake's last leg, we'll see if it's any good.. quake live was a bummer for me personally - the browser aspect really hurt them too.. we're with a different generation now though don't forget


Don't forget about Diabotical!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> not sure how good the teams they're in are performing in OW atm, but:
> knoxxx, zappis, milo, enigma, hymzi, numlocked, zebbosai, dikker, kensi, cypher, degun, nico, baud, flippy, hidan, exon, harbleu, shadowburn, forsak3n, powah, dahang, mangachu, pyyyour, cozen, shrugger, flame, papasmurf..
> still missing a bunch


Flame is not on a team, iirc, but does pretty good VOD reviews. Pyyyour is on Splice (lol). Milo and Enigma are on NRG with Seagull, which is in a slump rn. Mangachu just lost his team because Northern Gaming dropped their team (unless I misread). Shadowburn is the best Genji player in the entire game.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Lol tf2 is the definition of casual dude. overwatch and cs are MUCH better than tf2 ever will be


In what ways is Overwatch better or less casual than TF2? I'd generally like to know. I know a fair number of people think this, but I usually assume it is just because of hype and the money being dumped in to the competitive scene in OW currently. I personally think it has a much more casual feeling due to ultimates among other things.

Edit: I will say the experience for the general player is closer to the competitive experience in OW though which may be why some people think this. I could never really get in to TF2 6v6s because the skill ceiling was absurd in that game and I just got my ass kicked whenever I tried. I forget what site I used, but I used to play quite a lot of highlander and occasionally some 6v6s on some popular site for setting up pugs in tf2.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Like I said, look at 6s not public. Also CS is a very different and very boring game.
> 
> A lot of the best OW players come from TF2 btw, I don't follow OW too closely but from memory seagull, tviq, taimou, clockwork, dummy,... Many more, but I cba to look them up


....i would expect the best players to be tf2 players since its a copy of tf2 gameplay except much better


----------



## whiteweazel21

I haven't played TF2 in a long time but...OW balancing is catering towards spam, nerfing any hero that gives an advantage to players with good aim, and if all else fails, press "Q" to win. Like...I've played Dota for years, and the ultimate skills in OW are stronger than any ultimate in Dota. But Dota isn't an FPS, and saving up multiple Q's is basically how you win in OW. It may be somewhat competitive, but I'm not sure the direction they are heading in will result in the game becoming "e-sport".

Last patch they increased projectile hitbox, and then removed all remaining advance techniques of "animation cancel". They are ruining there own game by make it more shallow and balancing towards players who never played an FPS before -- IMO.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> In what ways is Overwatch better or less casual than TF2? I'd generally like to know. I know a fair number of people think this, but I usually assume it is just because of hype and the money being dumped in to the competitive scene in OW currently. I personally think it has a much more casual feeling due to ultimates among other things.
> 
> Edit: I will say the experience for the general player is closer to the competitive experience in OW though which may be why some people think this. I could never really get in to TF2 6v6s because the skill ceiling was absurd in that game and I just got my ass kicked whenever I tried. I forget what site I used, but I used to play quite a lot of highlander and occasionally some 6v6s on some popular site for setting up pugs in tf2.


I wasn't saying tf2 is more casual than overwatch, they're both casual games compared to cs. I said overwatch is a much better version of tf2


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> I wasn't saying tf2 is more casual than overwatch, they're both casual games compared to cs. I said overwatch is a much better version of tf2


Obviously your idea of a good game is very different from mine because to me OW is just new but vastly inferior in so many ways.


----------



## Vantavia

http://prntscr.com/cbgdru


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> I wasn't saying tf2 is more casual than overwatch, they're both casual games compared to cs. I said overwatch is a much better version of tf2


Meh, I'd say the gameplay is worse. The netcode is much worse. Input lag is worse. Basically most of the core game is worse. Its newer and prettier, but that is about it imo.


----------



## Nilizum

lol did I just read Overwatch better than TF2?


----------



## VESPA5

OW and TF2 are similar but also very different. I gave up on OW because it can be 'competitive' but oh it is so casual at the same time. The leaderboard at the end of each match makes it seem like everyone was doing well. There's no K/D or real gauge to tell if you were productive or a liability to your team. I'll give Blizzard this, they don't mess around when someone is caught cheating or hacking. I wish more companies (cough cough, EA/DICE, cough) would do this.


----------



## coolwert

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Like I said, look at 6s not public. Also *CS is a very different and very boring game.*
> 
> A lot of the best OW players come from TF2 btw, I don't follow OW too closely but from memory seagull, tviq, taimou, clockwork, dummy,... Many more, but I cba to look them up


triggered


----------



## dlano

The whole "casual" argument is stupid, tastes and trends will change over time and the success of mobas has led to OWs similar gameplay themes. People old enough to remember back when it was released, TF2 was considered casual by the hardcore TFC crowd, with its cartoonish graphics and simplified gameplay (no grenades, spy played much differently) but time marched on and TF2 carried on getting bigger as nostalgia faded.

The same will happen here, OW isn't as good as TF2 used to be, but it's better than it has been for the past few years and will only improve over time. Ardent TF2 fans sticking to their guns are just salty the new upstart is getting more attention than they ever did because Valve had no real interest in supporting a competitive scene. I loved TF2, I have many fond memories but it's had its time, Overwatch can at least bring a similar class based format to the limelight thanks to Blizz being desperate for a top tier "ESPORTS" title, and we can have an fps other than preaim-one-shot game.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> and we can have an fps other than preaim-one-shot game.


The FPS part is the problem, OW is centered around Ult management and " 6v6 brawling", a lot of the Heroes also arent requiring a lot of(or any) aim, and the mid/long range shooting chars in general are getting disadvantaged. Also for me personally its the first game where pubbing is more fun than comp, simply due to less cheese and more shooting, most fun i had was during the short time where McCree´s left click was buffed, because it was regarding, you go and headshot people a few times and they die, now its back to flash + FTH because the revolver becomes a peashooter at range.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> http://prntscr.com/cbgdru


Well, not much to discuss from FM. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolwert*
> 
> triggered


One shot spray game made for consoles.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> The FPS part is the problem, OW is centered around Ult management and " 6v6 brawling", a lot of the Heroes also arent requiring a lot of(or any) aim, and the mid/long range shooting chars in general are getting disadvantaged. Also for me personally its the first game where pubbing is more fun than comp, simply due to less cheese and more shooting, most fun i had was during the short time where McCree´s left click was buffed, because it was regarding, you go and headshot people a few times and they die, now its back to flash + FTH because the revolver becomes a peashooter at range.


We're supposed to use Soldier at range if I remember correctly, but considering how absolutely G A R B A G E tier he is in both live and PTR, it makes McCree and Reaper the only two useful DPS heroes, and there's some weird delay with McCree's revolver where I click and it takes like 50-100ms for the shot to actually fire, during that time my cursor has probably moved off of the enemy so headshots are a pain, I just play someone who has shots that actually register instantly e.g. Reaper, Tracer, Zarya...anyone but McCree and Widow basically.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Also CS is a very different and very boring game.


One of the reasons I quit. After several years most of my teammates left and I realized "My God this is boring without the LAN's and the competitions".

And I don't even blame the mechanics, which I liked. Have you ever played SoF2 CTF? I blame the lack of a more offensive and fast paced gametype.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Guys...is the ScreamOne supposed to tell us once and for all which game is more casual?


----------



## ncck

Tf2 is harder, more balanced, and well polished

Ow has better match making by a long shot and a better developer backing it (it's not new news that valve **** about half their titles) ..

Cs is really hard but revolves around learning many broken mechanics, the consistency is learning the broken parts

Overall I'd say tf2 is most consistent followed by ow, cs is the most RNG. I'm also referring to tf2 when I played it aka before the garbage weapon updates. The no RNG spread, consistent nade damage, no crits, and the only new weapons were the kritzkrieg and pyros axe which felt balanced.. anyway this is with years of playing both (besides ow) so I'm just basing this on fact/experience/opinion


----------



## daniel0731ex

Starcraft is wayy harder than all these scrub toy games.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Starcraft is wayy harder than all these scrub toy games.


Now you're just trolling


----------



## speedyeggtart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Starcraft is wayy harder than all these scrub toy games.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Now you're just trolling


To be fair - I gave up on SC2 after seeing those 300+ APM Korean videos.... no way I can compete against those guys!


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> The whole "casual" argument is stupid, tastes and trends will change over time and the success of mobas has led to OWs similar gameplay themes. People old enough to remember back when it was released, TF2 was considered casual by the hardcore TFC crowd, with its cartoonish graphics and simplified gameplay (no grenades, spy played much differently) but time marched on and TF2 carried on getting bigger as nostalgia faded.
> 
> The same will happen here, OW isn't as good as TF2 used to be, but it's better than it has been for the past few years and will only improve over time. Ardent TF2 fans sticking to their guns are just salty the new upstart is getting more attention than they ever did because Valve had no real interest in supporting a competitive scene. I loved TF2, I have many fond memories but it's had its time, Overwatch can at least bring a similar class based format to the limelight thanks to Blizz being desperate for a top tier "ESPORTS" title, and we can have an fps other than preaim-one-shot game.


If anything I'm salty that OW isn't better. I really want to like OW, but I just don't. I honestly consider it a waste purchase currently. I hope it will improve in to a game I can actually like and they certainly have improved some things, but I still don't like it.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Starcraft is wayy harder than all these scrub toy games.


too bad its dead


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *itsn0mad*
> 
> As an unabashed Overwatch fanboy and player, you're delusional. Overwatch is far more casual than TF2.
> Don't forget about Diabotical!
> Flame is not on a team, iirc, but does pretty good VOD reviews. Pyyyour is on Splice (lol). Milo and Enigma are on NRG with Seagull, which is in a slump rn. Mangachu just lost his team because Northern Gaming dropped their team (unless I misread). Shadowburn is the best Genji player in the entire game.


Thank you for telling me about Diabotical. I'm going to put some money into backing it. After seeing the kickstart I generally ignore stuff like this but the game seems well into development - I really like the ideas - and the developer actually knows how to play FPS and knows how the game should feel 'consistent/fluid'. Again thanks - would be funny if it ends up being more fun than quake champions. I'd love to see a popular arena shooter return - especially one with funny characters/cosmetics.. I love the bobble head idea too

As for those pros - seagull and enigma were gods at natural selection, and seagull was one of the worlds best hl2dm players.. also mangachu is a sick torb.. played with him a few times in MM - literally his torb is like facing a godlike mccree lol


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> The FPS part is the problem, OW is centered around Ult management and " 6v6 brawling", a lot of the Heroes also arent requiring a lot of(or any) aim, and the mid/long range shooting chars in general are getting disadvantaged. Also for me personally its the first game where pubbing is more fun than comp, simply due to less cheese and more shooting, most fun i had was during the short time where McCree´s left click was buffed, because it was regarding, you go and headshot people a few times and they die, now its back to flash + FTH because the revolver becomes a peashooter at range.


McRee is probably my most played and yes that patch was extremely fun but also kinda broken. He could sit back and still be effective at any range which wasn't the intention, he still does plenty now with headshots especially on discord targets, that's why I find comp more fun myself, yes metas do get cookie-cutter, but people at least try to use proper setups compared to QP where everyone is like "lol who cares" (unless you mean public comp vs arranged comp of which I've no experience).

As for the lack of shooter mechanics, I'd disagree somewhat, most dps heros and some tanks/supports need at least decent aim or prediction skills and at least it's a good variety of styles too; tracking, "flick" one hits and all sorts of different projectiles. I like the nature of more brawl types too though, Reinhardt is amazingly fun if you can play him well, but I agree with others that ult management is too important, I'd prefer longer set cooldowns than the current charge system letting some heros build ult way too fast.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> One shot spray game made for consoles.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Cs is really hard but revolves around learning many broken mechanics, the consistency is learning the broken parts


Sounds like silver talk


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> One of the reasons I quit. After several years most of my teammates left and I realized "My God this is boring without the LAN's and the competitions".
> 
> And I don't even blame the mechanics, which I liked. Have you ever played SoF2 CTF? I blame the lack of a more offensive and fast paced gametype.


sof2 ctf osp ND. Good old times. . . . .


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Sounds like silver talk


Sounds like gold nova master talk :>


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> Sounds like silver talk


I've played cs for 11 years and have been global elite since 2012 when mm was introduced and competed straight in esea IM before the team disbanded (unstable roster) and consider myself to be 3x better than that time

Don't make assumptions on anyone's skill level, even in overwatch i made rank 78 playing solo towards end season which wasn't very easy for me. Just talking about each game here I wasn't bashing anyone or insulting so why start


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> McRee is probably my most played and yes that patch was extremely fun but also kinda broken. He could sit back and still be effective at any range which wasn't the intention,


Which should be entirely reasonable for a 200hp character with close to 0 movement, the damage might seem fine for 200hp Heroes or against Roadhog, but as soon as Tanks with shields and Genji come into play it just becomes unfunny for the aforementioned reason, because in actual competitive(MM should be just called MM) people time their abilities really well, meaning that more often than not you have nothing that you can damage with left click and it again comes down to Flash + FTH, which has nothing to do with aiming. And the ult as well, i get 5 Frags, now what, i feel nothing because i did nothing.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> As for the lack of shooter mechanics, I'd disagree somewhat, most dps heros and some tanks/supports need at least decent aim or prediction skills and at least it's a good variety of styles too; tracking, "flick" one hits and all sorts of different projectiles


Yeah, but the decent aim in this game is set rather low, regardless one of the main problems is that in the current payload meta you only have one to two Heroes who are truly shooting, and the rest is filled by the two supports, probably Genji and brawlers, to which DVa, Reaper, and Roadhog imo belong as well given their range. Then take Reinhardts shield into account and you have one disgusting mess. Not to mention that its hard to motivate FPS players if only one guy is shooting.


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Which should be entirely reasonable for a 200hp character with close to 0 movement, the damage might seem fine for 200hp Heroes or against Roadhog, but as soon as Tanks with shields and Genji come into play it just becomes unfunny for the aforementioned reason, because in actual competitive(MM should be just called MM) people time their abilities really well, meaning that more often than not you have nothing that you can damage with left click and it again comes down to Flash + FTH,


Disagree personally, I think his relative lack of mobility is intentional, all heros need to have some weaknesses afterall. I'm only a mid 60s player at best though, 50-60% accuracy with a meh crit rate so I'll defer to the expertise of others, this was just my experience from my gameplay and watching recent tournaments.

Genjis shouldn't be jumping in till they know FB has been used anyway, tanks can be distracted by others and I rarely fth unless I need to because I'd rather flash, hs once or twice and save the ammo and my roll for when I need it.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Overall competitive matchmaking in OW is about 50x better than TF2,


If you really mean that than the TF2 MM much be the worst in all the land...becasue the competitive mode MM is OW was so broken they threw it away and redid it. sorry pulling a 6 team that's 20 levels above you when you're on a 3 is not good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Last patch they increased projectile hitbox, and then removed all remaining advance techniques of "animation cancel". They are ruining there own game by make it more shallow and balancing towards players who never played an FPS before -- IMO.


Not really....the made the hit boxes smaller in a previous patch, it didn't work, so they're changing them back. They didn't remove all animation cancels I don't think.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> most fun i had was during the short time where McCree´s left click was buffed, because it was regarding, you go and headshot people a few times and they die, now its back to flash + FTH because the revolver becomes a peashooter at range.


I loved mcreesniping but it seems that whenever Mccree is good people complaining about it and he gets nerfed to the ground again.


----------



## ncck

They didn't throw it away, all they did was hide the SR and mask it with a 'tier' so now certain SR ranges keep you in a tier so you don't immediately feel downranks each game - so you won't feel as bad for losing - but the system itself is very much the same and it was very good in giving competitive matches near your skill level

What was broken was the underdog system - Queuing with people way below your level (aka people who intentionally lost placements was a problem). The game not having a solo only que and a team only que, dynamic ques are bad in matchmaking if they really want a dynamic que then it should be que as 2, 3, 4, or 6 - you can't que as 1 or 5. So that way it always gets a matching pair of 2, 3, or 4 - then having a solo only que and only the solo que can have a top 500.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> sof2 ctf osp ND. Good old times. . . . .


Which is exactly what I miss in CSGO.

CSGO could pull of a similar feel or pacing, by simply adding a 2nd team based gametype that has respawns and is more fast paced. I got sick and tired of playing chess with 5 pawns a team, it's a shooter, I want to bloody shoot people and hone my skills in that.

There's a sense of purity imo that only instagib UT/Quake or SoF2 had: balls to the walls no nonsense fragging, less tactical focus, more focus on ability.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Which is exactly what I miss in CSGO.
> 
> CSGO could pull of a similar feel or pacing, by simply adding a 2nd team based gametype that has respawns and is more fast paced. I got sick and tired of playing chess with 5 pawns a team, it's a shooter, I want to bloody shoot people and hone my skills in that.
> 
> There's a sense of purity imo that only instagib UT/Quake or SoF2 had: balls to the walls no nonsense fragging, less tactical focus, more focus on ability.


I like it more when it's a tactical shooter. Also makes pro games fun to watch, who has better strats etc.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> I like it more when it's a tactical shooter. Also makes pro games fun to watch, who has better strats etc.


Yes to an extent, there's still some room for tactics in CTF, albeit it's more dynamic and the whole gametype relies more on team synergy/player ability rather then well thought out tactics.

I'm not proposing it as a replacement for the defuse gametype btw, just something that can live its own competitive life... alongside it.

Which worked fine in the SoF2 days. We had the sneaky/tactical people playing Infiltration and Defuse and the more fast paced fragging people enjoying CTF.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Disagree personally, I think his relative lack of mobility is intentional, all heros need to have some weaknesses afterall.


Well, thats what i am saying, but his advantages arent playing into that which is why he should have some "plan b".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Genjis shouldn't be jumping in till they know FB has been used anyway, tanks can be distracted by others and I rarely fth unless I need to because I'd rather flash, hs once or twice and save the ammo and my roll for when I need it.


Well, it depends on individual strats, but "saving my ammo and my Roll" isnt really happening in reality, there is a focus target and it needs to die, fth + roll is the fastest and most reliable way, not to mention that most of the times Reinhardt needs to be flashed, and yeah thats what genjis do, but in defense you dont have much choice in many cases as for when and against whom you use the FB. Distracting tanks also isnt a thing, unless they are bad.


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Well, it depends on individual strats, but "saving my ammo and my Roll" isnt really happening in reality, there is a focus target and it needs to die, fth + roll is the fastest and most reliable way, not to mention that most of the times Reinhardt needs to be flashed, and yeah thats what genjis do, but in defense you dont have much choice in many cases as for when and against whom you use the FB. Distracting tanks also isnt a thing, unless they are bad.


Yeah a good Reinhardt shouldn't drop shield for anything, but they can still be caught out of position, or other mitigating circumstances like reaper dropping to ult, tracer bombs, opposing rein charge etc but I see your point.

It's not something I encounter so much because I haven't invested the time to reach high level yet sadly and I don't fth just out of good practice in my mind rather than having to depend on it. I've seen it have some wonky spread/hit reg in the past like in a scene out of Pulp Fiction.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> Yeah a good Reinhardt shouldn't drop shield for anything, but they can still be caught out of position, or other mitigating circumstances like reaper dropping to ult, tracer bombs, opposing rein charge etc but I see your point.
> 
> It's not something I encounter so much because I haven't invested the time to reach high level yet sadly and I don't fth just out of good practice in my mind rather than having to depend on it. I've seen it have some wonky spread/hit reg in the past like in a scene out of Pulp Fiction.


Mccree can flashbang reinhardt behind his shield - I'm not even sure if he can block an overhead flash - guess it's up to zayra to bubble him when he gets stunned or the team to counter


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Mccree can flashbang reinhardt behind his shield - I'm not even sure if he can block an overhead flash - guess it's up to zayra to bubble him when he gets stunned or the team to counter


Most good Reinhardts have learned he can flash above and will move the shield up to block it, the fun begins when you find a one that knows this, so you fake high then flash the ground where he's made a gap at his feet.

That's when the mind games start


----------



## ralloff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Tf2 is harder, more balanced, and well polished
> 
> Ow has better match making by a long shot and a better developer backing it (it's not new news that valve **** about half their titles) ..
> 
> Cs is really hard but revolves around learning many broken mechanics, the consistency is learning the broken parts
> 
> Overall I'd say tf2 is most consistent followed by ow, cs is the most RNG. I'm also referring to tf2 when I played it aka before the garbage weapon updates. The no RNG spread, consistent nade damage, no crits, and the only new weapons were the kritzkrieg and pyros axe which felt balanced.. anyway this is with years of playing both (besides ow) so I'm just basing this on fact/experience/opinion


I definitely agree with that. CS is almost entirely about picking high success rate plays at the high level. So much RNG though; it's nuts. Dunno if you saw the last significant patch, but they legit lowered the skill ceiling and nobody batted an eye - except for SeanGares as far as I've seen. If it didn't have RNG it would be perfect, but valve has no intention of making it a good game. Pretty sure they are subtly dumbing it down for the asian market since they just sold the rights to Perfect World. Makes me really sad.

If TF2 had a more sizable competitive population I might have switched to that because it's pretty fun and very consistent. But as of now I think CS has the biggest pool of ultra competitive players among shooters which is pretty important when I pick a game to play a lot.


----------



## kevinnz

There no updates with the finalmouse so you guys are talking about video games lol


----------



## kashim

@FinalmouseJude any updates?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> @FinalmouseJude any updates?


Is this a joke?


----------



## ralloff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Is this a joke?


This whole thread is a joke.


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ralloff*
> 
> This whole thread is a joke.


The mouse/company that this thread is based on is a joke. It's only natural that the thread would turn into a joke.

So who here is buying a logitech g pro or g403? I'm getting a g pro after getting tired of waiting for the scream1.


----------



## Bucake

most likely i'm getting a g403, just can't make up my mind about wired or wireless. but i'm not in a hurry anyway
if i don't like it, i guess i'll just try out the G Pro (horrible name)


----------



## kevinnz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> most likely i'm getting a g403, just can't make up my mind about wired or wireless. but i'm not in a hurry anyway
> if i don't like it, i guess i'll just try out the G Pro (horrible name)


I read someone say that the g403 wired feels front heavy so putting the weight in the back helps balance it out... but that makes it 100grams. The battery in the wireless version probably evens out the weight distribution which is 107grams. Stewie2k likes playing wireless on his g900. I'm probably gonna go wireless


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> I read someone say that the g403 wired feels front heavy so putting the weight in the back helps balance it out... but that makes it 100grams. The battery in the wireless version probably evens out the weight distribution which is 107grams. Stewie2k likes playing wireless on his g900. I'm probably gonna go wireless


Initially, I too thought 107 grams is a little on the heavy side for quick FPS games. Going from an EC2-A to the G900 took a little adjusting (that and switching from stiff Zowie switches to Logitech's immaculate switches took readjusting as well). After using it for a while, I kinda wonder if it was worth me preordering the G Pro since it's going to be about 20+ grams lighter. We shall see!

By the way, the G900 is back heavy as opposed to the G403 (wired) being front heavy. I'd wait for reviews to come out. Logitech designed the G900 to be as good (or even better than competitors' wired mice). Not so sure if they're implementing that kind of performance with one of their 'mid-range' mice lineup (pfffft, mid-range, $69.99? ugh).


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Initially, I too thought 107 grams is a little on the heavy side for quick FPS games. Going from an EC2-A to the G900 took a little adjusting (that and switching from stiff Zowie switches to Logitech's immaculate switches took readjusting as well). After using it for a while, I kinda wonder if it was worth me preordering the G Pro since it's going to be about 20+ grams lighter. We shall see!
> 
> By the way, the G900 is back heavy as opposed to the G403 (wired) being front heavy. I'd wait for reviews to come out. Logitech designed the G900 to be as good (or even better than competitors' wired mice). Not so sure if they're implementing that kind of performance with one of their 'mid-range' mice lineup (pfffft, mid-range, $69.99? ugh).


No, the weight is certainly not too much. At all.


----------



## Shogoki

If they wait a little bit more, i swear the Risitas videos will start popping.


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So who here is buying a logitech g pro or g403? I'm getting a g pro after getting tired of waiting for the scream1.


I dont think its a matter of getting tired of waiting..what everyone wanted was one of the big companies to make a mouse like this. These second tier companies using OEM shells and things like that only exist becasue the big companies either refuse to make things like this or take far too long. Seriously once Logi announced the G Pro, crap name or not, what other mouse was relevant anymore? I was waiting on the Revel and then the DM Pro S, I was interested in the scream for a little bit until I realized it seemed like it was never coming out...but honestly who would buy one if those if the logitech exists?


----------



## SEJB

This thread is hilarious, I like to check it every now and then to see if there are any updates but I am starting to believe this mouse will never be released.


----------



## trism

I understand that people dislike the false news and scheduled release dates which are not kept, however I think commenting on this thread has gone a bit too far and people seem to be too harsh on Finalmouse compared to the other brands re-branding ODM mice (S1 isn't even an ODM mouse). Also obviously some of the previous information given has been "off" but I don't see people attacking e.g. the DM rep over similar "false" bits of information.

Whether they will deliver a quality product or not is yet to be seen, however I am still interested in this mouse particularly due to the firmware feature and the shape. The DIY firmware feature is very intriguing even though I don't have that much experience with NXP processors or ARMs in general. Transitioning from AVRs isn't probably that big of a deal, however, and it would be a pretty interesting project.

I hope they are really using this time to make it a quality product and I don't see anything wrong if they are doing just that. It's not like the G Pro or G403 killed all the competition by being the best two mice for _every_one.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Refreshed WMO shape and kept the main button overhang on the sides tells me all I need to know.


----------



## Demi9OD

From what I gather, the complaints are justified based on previous FM releases, not just the S1. Logitech's only gap right now is in a larger ambi model. Their only option in that space is the G900 which is overpriced for many and too heavy for some. Logi probably has the smaller ambi (G Pro) and ergo (G403) market cornered for the foreseeable future.

The S1 will have to compete with the DM1 Pro S, Revel, and MasterMouse Pro L in that space right now. Not to mention those that will want to stick with their FK1/FK2 and ZA11/ZA12.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I understand that people dislike the false news and scheduled release dates which are not kept, however I think commenting on this thread has gone a bit too far and people seem to be too harsh on Finalmouse compared to the other brands re-branding ODM mice (S1 isn't even an ODM mouse). Also obviously some of the previous information given has been "off" but I don't see people attacking e.g. the DM rep over similar "false" bits of information.
> 
> Whether they will deliver a quality product or not is yet to be seen, however I am still interested in this mouse particularly due to the firmware feature and the shape. The DIY firmware feature is very intriguing even though I don't have that much experience with NXP processors or ARMs in general. Transitioning from AVRs isn't probably that big of a deal, however, and it would be a pretty interesting project.
> 
> I hope they are really using this time to make it a quality product and I don't see anything wrong if they are doing just that. It's not like the G Pro or G403 killed all the competition by being the best two mice for _every_one.


As long as they continue to falsely advertise they deserve every bit of **** that gets dumped on them.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> As long as they continue to falsely advertise they deserve every bit of **** that gets dumped on them.


Have they advertised falsely lately? I don't follow them or their progress elsewhere. I don't think they've mentioned anything here in ages at least.


----------



## a_ak57

They continue to list false weights for their mice and even acknowledged that almost a year ago yet don't do anything about it because it suckers people into thinking their products are in a special tier.


----------



## Shogoki

http://captiongenerator.com/104092/Risitas-FinalMouse-CEO-talk-about-the-Scream-One

Just made it.


----------



## Demi9OD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> http://captiongenerator.com/104092/Risitas-FinalMouse-CEO-talk-about-the-Scream-One
> 
> Just made it.


LOL, well done


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Biblical.

Out of all the useless crap on reddit csgo front page, why isnt this there,lol


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> http://captiongenerator.com/104092/Risitas-FinalMouse-CEO-talk-about-the-Scream-One
> 
> Just made it.


Nice but you should have put something in about the scream reveal, which was already like a couple months after they said it was coming in "a matter of days". You know the one in his bedroom....he pulls it out of a drawer and then proceeds to say hes not even going to use it....Im fact, Im not positive on this, but I think that even turned out to not even be a "real" scream one.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I understand that people dislike the false news and scheduled release dates which are not kept, however I think commenting on this thread has gone a bit too far and people seem to be too harsh on Finalmouse compared to the other brands re-branding ODM mice (S1 isn't even an ODM mouse). Also obviously some of the previous information given has been "off" but I don't see people attacking e.g. the DM rep over similar "false" bits of information.
> 
> Whether they will deliver a quality product or not is yet to be seen, however I am still interested in this mouse particularly due to the firmware feature and the shape. The DIY firmware feature is very intriguing even though I don't have that much experience with NXP processors or ARMs in general. Transitioning from AVRs isn't probably that big of a deal, however, and it would be a pretty interesting project.
> 
> I hope they are really using this time to make it a quality product and I don't see anything wrong if they are doing just that. It's not like the G Pro or G403 killed all the competition by being the best two mice for _every_one.


as usual you have a point, however it sounds like you might've missed the posts from finalmousejude?
in them, he showed to completely lack a professional attitude, which gave FM a certain image as a company.

i suppose the reason why the harsh posting continues is because they never really bothered to attempt to fix that image by stepping up their honesty-levels and bumping up their professionality.
maybe it sounds harsh, but they just seems like a company without dignity, based on how they dealt with the public from start to where we are now.

personally i don't think that much more of DM, but at least they seem to have their stuff together for the bigger part, and their representative steps up when complaints are given (here on OCN at least) and then tries to act and solve things in a professional way. it's the little things!

of course you're right about the rest, but it all depends on whether they do it all right or not


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> http://captiongenerator.com/104092/Risitas-FinalMouse-CEO-talk-about-the-Scream-One
> 
> Just made it.


Wow that's really good. I bet you'd get paid a lot making these things for a living as promos.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Wow that's really good. I bet you'd get paid a lot making these things for a living as promos.


P.S. getting my logi pro later today, and buying a wireless 403 after for testing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> P.S. getting my logi pro later today, and buying a wireless 403 after for testing.


Are they going to be at retail stores (e.g, BestBuy, Gamestop) on September 10th? Can't find anything via Google regarding retail stores


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Wow that's really good. I bet you'd get paid a lot making these things for a living as promos.


Chris Pate can use it if he wants to.


----------



## agsz

A wild ScreaM One appears...


----------



## Bucake

i bet he is using his own custom firmware 211!! with one tap scripts....


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i bet he is using his own custom firmware 211!! with one tap scripts....


What are the odds that mouse in the picture has the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo/Tournament Pro internals?


----------



## Bucake

93%


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Are they going to be at retail stores (e.g, BestBuy, Gamestop) on September 10th? Can't find anything via Google regarding retail stores


No they will be in stores like best buy later down the road. Sadly.


----------



## Newwt

.....


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> No they will be in stores like best buy later down the road. Sadly.


I'm kind of late to the Logitech G403 hype train...









It seems like Europe is getting the Logitech G403 & G Pro much earlier than the U.S & Canada. NewEgg says the release date is October 1st, 2016. If I pre-order through Logitech's website, what's the estimated shipping/arrival date ?


----------



## loki993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What are the odds that mouse in the picture has the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo/Tournament Pro internals?


Better than average....


----------



## ncck

Nah it's the real one, ino has it too


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> ino has it


cool  i am certainly curious


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> cool  i am certainly curious


He got a pre-used one so he wasn't super happy with it (aka someone else used/tested/reviewed it) before he did


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> cool  i am certainly curious


I gave my impressions somewhere here in this thread. I didn't do a full review because it was a not final version and there were quite some issues with it in terms of build quality, but that might have been due to previous owner opening it, for example the feet were misaligned and sticking out (looked like someone took them off and reapplied), the shell made a creaking noise when pressing it and the LED was weird.
Performance was not a problem, but I guess that's easy with a 3360. I'd do a full review with a final product, but not yet with that sample.


----------



## BlazeGaming

Hey Ino, I was wondering if you could stream a bit using the G403 tonight ?!


----------



## trhead

Scream is using what looks like Scream One. You can see it on twitch now playing vs Envy.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Scream is using what looks like Scream One. You can see it on twitch now playing vs Envy.


Yea a pic was posted of him using it a few days ago. It was asked what if it's an actual copy, or the Scream 1 shell with the tournament pro internals....which is a good question. Lol


----------



## Maximillion

It's probably the same mouse from the OP


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea a pic was posted of him using it a few days ago. It was asked what if it's an actual copy, or the Scream 1 shell with the tournament pro internals....which is a good question. Lol


Scream One internals with Tournament Pro shell would be so much better.


----------



## chr1spe

It would be absurdly expensive for the mouse, but you could probably replace the top shell with one from a tp and vice versa. You would end up spending like 150$ for what should be a 40-50$ mouse though.


----------



## m0uz

That reminds me. It's been delayed countless times, they're rep has lied on occasion and they're probably still putting this thing up for 80 bucks. Surely they're not stupid enough to expect it to sell for that amount just because it has some CSGO pleb's name attached to it? I mean they have direct 'ambi 336x' competition with DM, Nixeus, CM and now Logi with the G Pro, all of which are less expensive. Sure, DM and Nixeus have some QC issues but you can't tell me FM doesn't.

In all honesty, though, the shape looks spectacular and it's a shame its being destroyed by a company like FM.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Probly more than 80usd


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> That reminds me. It's been delayed countless times, they're rep has lied on occasion and they're probably still putting this thing up for 80 bucks. Surely they're not stupid enough to expect it to sell for that amount just because it has some CSGO pleb's name attached to it? I mean they have direct 'ambi 336x' competition with DM, Nixeus, CM and now Logi with the G Pro, all of which are less expensive. Sure, DM and Nixeus have some QC issues but you can't tell me FM doesn't.
> 
> In all honesty, though, the shape looks spectacular and it's a shame its being destroyed by a company like FM.


FM has the worst QC. Which is very very sad cause i agree the shape is solid as hell.


----------



## Bucake

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if it will cost quite something.
you'd think they'll have to make up for losses (more time/money into development, and no release = no cash flow.)

we'll see. if their firmware (feature) ends up being fantastic, maybe that will be their savior.
then again, the firmware feature will be almost useless for sales i suspect. how many gamers can write firmware?
besides, even mice with very bad (or mediocre) firmware have gotten a lot of good reviews. putting a lot of time into it like they're doing is maybe only hurting them in the end.


----------



## PU skunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> we'll see. if their firmware (feature) ends up being fantastic.


What is done in firmware for what is supposed to be a RAW mouse?


----------



## wareya

old FM had extra input lag from smoothing


----------



## PU skunk

It sound like it's harder to take smoothing out of a mouse than it is to put it in then.


----------



## kashim

any news?


----------



## c0dy

That's the last I've seen


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> 
> 
> That's the last I've seen


ty for the reply,when?


----------



## kashim

11sept :S,really hope fm release it for late sept


----------



## c0dy

No idea. The whole delay after delay thing made me lose interest. So I haven't been following any release dates.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> 
> 
> That's the last I've seen


Logitech is putting heat on these companies. Fm pretty much had no choice. People have already stopped caring & they have lost a lot of $.


----------



## Poodle

Pretty funny when Logitech support thread gets moved but same stuff has been posted in this thread for months. Well it's not so unexpected because this is kind of Logitech sponsored site. I really dont expect anymore objective thoughts from "reviewers".


----------



## trism

That thread was a rant which is why it was moved. Those are the rules of the forum. This thread is not a rant even though some people are technically acting as such. Moderators could just remove the posts that go over the line.

Also cool to see them (hopefully) getting the product out soon. I wish they would release the same internals with the normal coating as well. The ScreaM text and blue color are a bit too "flashy" in my opinion.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Pretty funny when Logitech support thread gets moved but same stuff has been posted in this thread for months. Well it's not so unexpected because this is kind of Logitech sponsored site. I really dont expect anymore objective thoughts from "reviewers".


It was a rant thread. There is a sub forum for those types of threads.

It also had wild quotes like Zowie being a tier 1 manufacturer. In essence a bait and troll thread mostly.


----------



## Poodle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> It was a rant thread. There is a sub forum for those types of threads.
> 
> It also had wild quotes like Zowie being a tier 1 manufacturer. In essence a bait and troll thread mostly.


Nice try coming from guy with G logo avatar. I mentioned both Zowie and Roccat. It's not trolling when a fan boy gets triggered you know.


----------



## Stormfirebird

Doesn't Roccat have a track record for ****ty coating and double clicking mouse buttons?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Nice try coming from guy with G logo avatar. I mentioned both Zowie and Roccat. It's not trolling when a fan boy gets triggered you know.


My avatar has nothing to do with my posts or my opinions. You're drawing poor and biased conclusions.

I'm well aware it was you who mentioned Zowie.

The ridiculousness peaks when the company that released 5 versions of the same mouse still doesn't produce a working scroll wheel that survives consecutive releases is "tier 1".

I'd consider that trolling.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> 
> 
> That's the last I've seen


Weird they say that considering the last update that was posted in this thread was FM talking about how they were hoping for mid-October but didn't even seem confident of that.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Weird they say that considering the last update that was posted in this thread was FM talking about how they were hoping for mid-October but didn't even seem confident of that.


mid oct?really hope this mouse is perfect or i never buy fm again


----------



## Melan

Assuming if you can ever buy one.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Assuming if you can ever buy one.


ahahahah


----------



## Maximillion

https://youtu.be/4q5aprqreSk

Can someone with video editing skills superimpose an image of the Scream One over Santa (make sure not to cover the shoes though) and photoshop Jude's likeness over the elf?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bucake

santa with nikes? fake


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> santa with nikes? fake


right! santa use adidas


----------



## Sencha




----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*


No


----------



## duhizy

This is a travesty, there's no way in hell scream is comfortable with the grip style of this mouse judging from the pictures, he has exactly the type of tilted right hand claw/fingertip hybrid grip as me and nothing feels proper unless the ring finger has room to curve around and rest like it does on the deathadder. I'm willing to bet Finalmouse strongly "suggested" that they make this mouse ambi so that more people could buy their new flagship model and then forced scream to live with it.


----------



## VESPA5

I'm sure the Scream One will sell like hot cakes like Logitech's G Pro and Prodigy lineup. I can't help but think that most of the manufacturers are sorta copying shapes that worked in the past. This latest round of 336x mice have either been influenced by the Sensei or DeathAdder (at least to me it seems that way).


----------



## qsxcv

implying it will be released any time soon


----------



## kashim

OMG nothing?any news?


----------



## a_ak57

I think the last release window given was for October, so that means in the next couple weeks we'll find out when the next release date is.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I think the last release window was given it was for October, so that means in the next couple weeks we'll find out when the next release date is.


hahah :')

well they sure are late to the 3360 party.. besides the shape, they have nothing to sell anymore. the firmware feature isn't interesting to their (main) audience anyway.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> hahah :')
> 
> well they sure are late to the 3360 party.. besides the shape, they have nothing to sell anymore. the firmware feature isn't interesting to their (main) audience anyway.


they have lost a great chance...some month ago screamone was a special mouse,3360+ambi+light+shell now is simply a overrated mouse with so much competitors...if they do something wrong(shell,quality,sensor,firmware)they are out of marketing


----------



## ncck

I'll tell you one thing as soon as his contract is up he'll be back on the death adder


----------



## m0uz

Have FinalMouse declared bankruptcy yet? Or are they late doing that as well?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Have FinalMouse declared bankruptcy yet? Or are they late doing that as well?


"We have an announcement to make your honor."
"Okay, go ahead then."
"Actually there has been a delay, we cannot give an ETA on when the next sentence will be said."


----------



## CorruptBE

Well they wanted to announce something but there was a delay so there will be a delay until the next announcement that there's another delay.

Wait what? Delay-ception.


----------



## Fluxify

https://twitter.com/m0E_tv/status/784847591016046592

https://twitter.com/m0E_tv/status/784927053988581376


----------



## Sencha

Finallymouse


----------



## kashim

Mmm guys forma claw/palm hybrid grip,zone light mouse with ambi dhape andò 3360/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> https://twitter.com/m0E_tv/status/784847591016046592
> 
> https://twitter.com/m0E_tv/status/784927053988581376


then release is near?


----------



## wareya

finally a mouse


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

^Jinxed it.

New release date: 2019.


----------



## wareya

glad to be of service


----------



## popups

This company must be defunct. They didn't have to do much to bring out a 3360 mouse (I don't even remember the name of it, it's been that long). Remember when they said they were going to design everything themselves in order to make things better?


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Remember when they said they were working on an explorer shaped mouse.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> Remember when they said they were working on an explorer shaped mouse.


upon further reflection on that statement it occurred to me that a IE 3.0 shaped mouse from finalmouse would essentially be a deathadder.


----------



## trism

Interesting. I wonder if the firmware feature made it to the end product. Hopefully they will also sell this as the regular Tournament Pro because that coating + text looks just so tacky in my opinion. Shape definitely looks interesting.


----------



## Bucake

i fear it's just gonna be bad in terms of build quality / QC. i hope i'm wrong though - can't have enough competition in the peripheral industry imo


----------



## ncck

The FM TP I used had great sensor tracking - the coating felt very bad though and was very slippery - scroll wheel and clicks were very good, mouse skates I don't remember and I think I didn't care for the braided cable but it wasn't too bad

My main gripe was the shape just wasn't for me -- but it was def up there in terms of click/sensor perf


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> the coating felt very bad though and was very slippery


i feel like this has been one of the primary things most companies seemed to have neglected for a long while, good finishes and coatings. but i suppose most customers don't care that much anyway :-/
personally i really dig texture that feels good on my palm, fingers, fingertips. though i guess i'm more focused on comfort than performance because pretty much every mouse with an IC sensor from ~2005 and up is OK with me


----------



## Zakman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i feel like this has been one of the primary things most companies seemed to have neglected for a long while, good finishes and coatings. but i suppose most customers don't care that much anyway :-/


I guess it's a bit difficult to have coating which is ideal for casual use and gaming use. For example I can't use my EC2-A for casual browsing. It's just way too slippery but it's pretty decent while gaming.

Of the mice I've had so far the G403's had the best coating, made even better by its rubber side grips.


----------



## Fluxify

https://twitter.com/G2ScreaM/status/785433424668553216


----------



## m0uz

"They used to talk about my one taps"


----------



## Sencha

"Please talk about my one taps again"


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> https://twitter.com/G2ScreaM/status/785433424668553216


Interesting. I thought he was using the ScreamOne all this time???? Does this confirm that he was using an old sensor in the shell for all this time?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> Interesting. I thought he was using the ScreamOne all this time???? Does this confirm that he was using an old sensor in the shell for all this time?


No he was using the new one, they just sent him another - possibly a final 'build' of it while he may have been using an RC version


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

It'll still look as amateur hour'ish as Ino's test sample.


----------



## gunit2004

Some new tweets from Finalmouse:

1/2 Due to the improvements made with the s1, we have decided to discontinue the ergo and tp. Current batch will be the last.

2/2 The s1 (finally launching this month) simply outperforms in every performance benchmark... And to us best represents a "Finalmouse"

for those wondering there will be different editions and colorways of the s1. More info to come!

Finally launch this month? Maybe they should change their name to Finallymouse


----------



## wareya

If they made a first run edition of the S1 that had scream write "finally" on the bottom in sharpie it would probably work


----------



## ncck

Glad they're introducing new color schemes - now get a decent coating and a rubber cable and they're in business at least for that style of shape


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> 2/2 The s1 simply outperforms in every performance benchmark...


i wonder what exactly they mean, or if it's even true.
tested against which mice? their own? or 336x competition? and compared what, latency?
well, i guess we'll see soonish


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i wonder what exactly they mean, or if it's even true.
> tested against which mice? their own? or 336x competition? and compared what, latency?
> well, i guess we'll see soonish


Pretty sure it was a 2-part tweet so they are only referring to the TP and ergo, thus their reason for discontinuing those two mice.


----------



## Bucake

lol. yeah, i misunderstood
cheers


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

When it drops i'll snatch it & see how it is.


----------



## Hunched

I'm interested.
The only off-putting part of the mouse so far is that braided cable... Stop it with the braided cables everyone please!
Also obviously having "scream" on my mouse is off-putting, but at least it's just aesthetic and it sounds like they'll have versions without it.

Stop crippling good designs with stupid decisions.
"Braided or rubber cable?" RUBBER. Rubber is the answer. Flexible rubber. Not a god damn rope.
Or at least give a choice between the two, are variants so hard?

I guess it sells better because it looks higher quality or whatever.
Zowie is the most used by CSGO pros and all their mice use rubber cables, at least someone gets it.


----------



## Sencha

I foresee a lot of frustration on those ordering this right off release. At least wait for some feedback from Ino. I will pick one up if it's good but no way I can be anything but dubious over the launch.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I foresee a lot of frustration on those ordering this right off release. At least wait for some feedback from Ino. I will pick one up if it's good but no way I can be anything but dubious over the launch.


The FM team has been working relentlessly for months making sure every performance detail is perfect. Why would you think there would be any type of launch issue(s) despite their perpetual efforts?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> The FM team has been working relentlessly for months making sure every performance detail is perfect. Why would you think there would be any type of launch issue(s) despite their perpetual efforts?


I think he means stock issues


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> The FM team has been working relentlessly for months making sure every performance detail is perfect. Why would you think there would be any type of launch issue(s) despite their perpetual efforts?


----------



## ramoramo

Oh yeah!!! Great news guys, the mouse is FINALLY not released yet


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

https://www.amazon.com/Finalmouse-Scream-One-First-Edition/dp/B01LZBCEIR/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1476225732&sr=8-2&keywords=FinalMouse+scream+one

amazonscreamone.png 420k .png file
\

Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.
Developed in tandem with Adil "Scream" Benrlitom, the S1 was built to surpass every esports performance benchmark
The S1 boasts the all new pmw3360 esports sensor. With a higher framerate, integrated illumination, and enhanced tracking ability
Firmware for the S1's NXP chipset was developed in-house to ensure every line of code pushed the mouse to its performance limits
The S1 is the lightest Finalmouse built to date; with improved internal components, side buttons, and 20m switches
1ms click latency, 1ms fully consistent report rate, exact 1:1 burst motion reads, zero sensor delay, zero prediction, zero acceleration


----------



## Fluxify

I don't know why the DPI button is not on the bottom, even though they have a glitch detection on it. They are using Huanos right? Doesn't that mean it will be stiffer to click then previous FinalMouses?


----------



## Hunched

I guess it's time to learn how to debraid cables so I can open up my mouse options by 95%


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I guess it's time to learn how to debraid cables so I can open up my mouse options by 95%


Step 1. Cut braid
Step 2. Pull braid
EZ


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> Step 1. Cut braid
> Step 2. Pull braid
> EZ


I've heard it can be a bit time consuming, depending on the braid and length of the cable and how careful you want to be.
It doesn't just fall off after a single cut.

I assume you're being sarcastic by the "EZ"


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I've heard it can be a bit time consuming, depending on the braid and length of the cable and how careful you want to be.
> It doesn't just fall off after a single cut.
> 
> I assume you're being sarcastic by the "EZ"


it is fairly easy. I just use a very thin scissor and slide it along the braid, then pull it off. takes a while but it's not difficult at all.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I've heard it can be a bit time consuming, depending on the braid and length of the cable and how careful you want to be.
> It doesn't just fall off after a single cut.
> 
> I assume you're being sarcastic by the "EZ"


Yes and no. Invest in a pair of medical scissors if you are the type of person that wants to mod every cable to be a zowie cable. It makes the process much faster and easier.


----------



## chr1spe

You could also just replace the cable. Its probably actually quicker and easier. I don't get all the fuss over cables though. Every cable is bad if I don't mount it well and no cable that I've used is noticeably that bad when mounted right. I'm using a g303 with stock cable just fine right now and don't even notice the cable. I do think it may have gotten more flexable over time though.


----------



## Nivity

Will probably have to wait forever to order one to Sweden.
Since I cannot even order a stupid Revel to Sweden from amazon UK lul, hope they make it more available then Nixeus are making their mouse.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Will probably have to wait forever to order one to Sweden.
> Since I cannot even order a stupid Revel to Sweden from amazon UK lul, hope they make it more available then Nixeus are making their mouse.


Asked them something similar just today.
Quote:


> When the Scream1 is released it will see the greatest availability of all our mice thus far. We plan to expand reach globally.
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support


So yea hopefully it will have a much greater reach than the older versions.


----------



## m0uz

I'm not even kidding when I say this. Someone must have gotten it stuck in my head but whenever I read FinalMouse I always think it says FinallyMouse. Not even kidding.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I'm not even kidding when I say this. Someone must have gotten it stuck in my head but whenever I read FinalMouse I always think it says FinallyMouse. Not even kidding.


finalmouse tilted everybody with their delay and fake promises, some ppl have called them worse names in this thread


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> finalmouse tilted everybody with their delay and fake promises, some ppl have called them worse names in this thread


Who cares. Zowie said the 3360 would be in their mice soon like a year ago too.
As long as they've taken the time to make their product not ****, literally who cares.

Delays don't ruin a product, rushing unfinished products to market does.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Who cares. Zowie said the 3360 would be in their mice soon like a year ago too.
> As long as they've taken the time to make their product not ****, literally who cares.
> 
> Delays don't ruin a product, rushing unfinished products to market does.


I don't remember Zowie saying they were updating their mice with the 3360.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't remember Zowie saying they were updating their mice with the 3360.


https://twitter.com/ZOWIEbyBenQ/status/678903161185259526

#Soon


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't remember Zowie saying they were updating their mice with the 3360.


never heard that too


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I'm not even kidding when I say this. Someone must have gotten it stuck in my head but whenever I read FinalMouse I always think it says FinallyMouse. Not even kidding.


Sry


----------



## gunnu

will it be a ergo or ambidextrous ?


----------



## Sencha

Ambi


----------



## SynergyCB

Hopefully the different versions of the Scream One won't have the Scream signature on it. Would prefer just a clean look and a red/black color scheme.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hopefully the different versions of the Scream One won't have the Scream signature on it. Would prefer just a clean look and a red/black color scheme.


Yeah, I would love to see a version without all the Scream crap all over it.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hopefully the different versions of the Scream One won't have the Scream signature on it. Would prefer just a clean look and a red/black color scheme.


Looks like we'll have to settle for the color we choose but be stuck with the sig.

Wonder how long it will take for all of the colors they showed off, to actually be up for sale.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hopefully the different versions of the Scream One won't have the Scream signature on it. Would prefer just a clean look and a red/black color scheme.


Honestly, I wouldn't mind a signature if it at least looked good. The scream signature as it is looks almost as bad as comic sans.


----------



## popups

The signature could be on the bottom of the mouse. They could have put it on the sticker in made it apart of the mold.

Does this mouse and company even exist at this point or is it just a troll?


----------



## xmr1

I couldn't care less how a mouse looks like as long as it feels right and performs well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## kashim

guys any news about release date?simpy come in october?(really hope is true)


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys any news about release date?simpy come in october?(really hope is true)


I think deep down inside, you already know the answer to your question.


----------



## turbocrea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I'm interested.
> The only off-putting part of the mouse so far is that braided cable... Stop it with the braided cables everyone please!
> Also obviously having "scream" on my mouse is off-putting, but at least it's just aesthetic and it sounds like they'll have versions without it.
> 
> Stop crippling good designs with stupid decisions.
> "Braided or rubber cable?" RUBBER. Rubber is the answer. Flexible rubber. Not a god damn rope.
> Or at least give a choice between the two, are variants so hard?


Braided cables as they are used today just add _another_ layer. This is completely wrong, it does not make the cables more flexible, it makes them less flexible without any benefit.

The way braided cables are meant to be is _replacing_ the rubber with braid.
But that would mean additional development effort, because braided cables too need shielding as long as they use high-speed or full-speed USB. If they used normal 1.1 USB, no shielding would be necessary, but with 1000ms polling I think shielding is needed.

You can debraid your cable by cutting the braid off with small scissors. not too hard to do.


----------



## Demi9OD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> I think deep down inside, you already know the answer to your question.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys any news about release date?simpy come in october?(really hope is true)


Octnovedecembernever I think they said.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demi9OD*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *rugi*
> 
> I think deep down inside, you already know the answer to your question.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys any news about release date?simpy come in october?(really hope is true)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Octnovedecembernever I think they said.
Click to expand...

2017?


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Honestly, I wouldn't mind a signature if it at least looked good. The scream signature as it is looks almost as bad as comic sans.


I agree with this. If I had scream sign my tits, that's how he would really write it???


----------



## Sencha

"For me a signature is about precision"


----------



## Hunched

Have you seen the guys hair? He doesn't exactly understand what looks good.


----------



## Maximillion

Scream's hair, face and physique are all beautiful. He's 2nd only to sgares on the dreamboat scale.

no **** tho


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Have you seen the guys hair? He doesn't exactly understand what looks good.


It's you that doesn't understand clearly lol

That style is certainly 'in'.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Scream's hair, face and physique are all beautiful. He's 2nd only to sgares on the dreamboat scale.
> 
> no **** tho


Nahhh no pause needed. I getchu. I agree, surely ladies are all on him at events. Lol


----------



## ncck

He uses the spare gel from his hair as grip for the slippery coating of FM


----------



## Bucake

i think he looks like a clown


----------



## trism

maturity is strong in this thread


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> maturity is strong in this thread


One of these threads had to be a general discussion thread, seems fitting that it's this one, it's not like we have anything to miss.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> maturity is strong in this thread


Sorry, I know we're supposed to talk about his one taps, not his hair.


----------



## end0rphine

This still coming out? There's one week left of this month. You can only screw up release dates so many times...


----------



## SynergyCB

It should be out soon lol. Few people in the CSGO community already have the final product. I believe Moe, Ryu, and maybe a few others already have the final product. Maybe getting supplies ready for the full release?


----------



## Fluxify

Nice pictures we got here.

https://twitter.com/SelflessRyu/status/784890712437293057

https://twitter.com/SelflessRyu/status/785659251062476800

UNOFFICIAL: https://embed.gyazo.com/8954e78bd5254cdf42cf185980782dc7.gif


----------



## equlix

Has the amazon site always said available on sept 29?


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> Has the amazon site always said available on sept 29?


Nope has been "Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."

but still says the same for me :S


----------



## neotarkilmar

Anyone knows the hand size of Scream?

He plays with a fingertip grip but with the fingers more like a claw but the palm of the hand never touch the mouse, exactly how I hold my mouse.

Im playing with a logitech g9x "naked" for the last 5 years because its small, but this guy played with a Deathadder and this Finalmouse Scream One looks big (a lot more than a g9x naked anyways), so maybe I should try a bigger mouse and see how it works with my grip. My hands size is medium 18cm x 9cm aprox.

Ive only played with a Zowie EC (original version) for 1 year, and it was a bit too big, excellent quiality material and loved the cable and rubber, hated the glossy sides (g9x cable is horrible, braided, stiff), so I changed to a smaller mouse recomended for fingertip a Zowie Mico but it didnt work, horrible cable, too light, bad feel. Then a bought a g9x and it was ok.

Mouse grip of Scream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEeXSQ5fvKQ


----------



## SynergyCB

https://www.twitch.tv/adren_tv/v/96177377

Starting at 20:20, Adren talks about the Final Mouse. So far, he likes the coating, sensor is good, and clicks are similar to Zowie stiffness(hopefully not FK stifness). His main problem with it was the loud mousewheel rattle.

you can hear the mousewheel rattle starting at around 07:55


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> https://www.twitch.tv/adren_tv/v/96177377
> 
> Starting at 20:20, Adren talks about the Final Mouse. So far, he likes the coating, sensor is good, and clicks are similar to Zowie stiffness(hopefully not FK stifness). His main problem with it was the loud mousewheel rattle.
> 
> you can hear the mousewheel rattle starting at around 07:55


wheel rattle is serious problem.
T.T test mouse is even that quality.
Official selling will be not possible in December.


----------



## SynergyCB

Hopefully the mouse wheel rattle was only a problem with the test mouse Adren received. If all the Scream One's have a loud mouse wheel rattle, I'll be really disappointed.


----------



## Hunched

Oh my god, can anybody install a scroll wheel in a mouse properly?

Why is this so complicated? It's not a brand new technology, scroll wheels have been around for a while now, it's not rocket science they should be understood and perfected.

It never ceases to amaze me how everyone continues to screw up the simplest of tasks, it's just blowing my mind more every time it happens.
How few components do you need your product to have to not screw something up?
This goes for everyone.

But it's amazing if they've taken all this time, all these delays, and still couldn't wrap their tiny minds around how to implement a scroll wheel.


----------



## RealSteelH6

^ this so much. A damn $2 mice has less build quality issues (and a proper mouse wheel) than the $80 gaming mice nowadays.


----------



## Poodle

Adren said in his stream about his Scream One unit:

- scroll wheel rattle
- hard clicks
- broken dpi button
- bad qc
- nice soft coating
- feels lighter than G Pro

Sounds like my old Ergo 2015 with harder clicks. Thx but no thx.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Sounds like perfection to me. It's good that they delayed it 800 times so they could finally get it right.


----------



## Bucake

^









and yeah, mouse wheels.. sigh!


----------



## NovaGOD

Not another rattling scroll wheel please..














I had enough with 3x g403 already.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Adren said in his stream about his Scream One unit:
> 
> - scroll wheel rattle
> - hard clicks
> - broken dpi button
> - bad qc
> - nice soft coating
> - feels lighter than G Pro
> 
> Sounds like my old Ergo 2015 with harder clicks. Thx but no thx.


*Exclusive Mototech Technology™*


----------



## FinalmouseJude

"Broken dpi button" was our glitch detection technology. Trying to change dpi while moving may make some users think it's not working.

Buttons are omrons but the chassis was designed so you can rest your hand on the mouse without accidentally actuating a button. So they aren't ultra sensitive feeling like the ergo. End feeling is still omron but without sensitive trigger

We plan on launching this week. There will be more info on the mouse coming soon as well. Many are testing the mouse within the competitive community right now so some info may not be accurate.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> "Broken dpi button" was our glitch detection technology. Trying to change dpi while moving may make some users think it's not working.
> 
> We plan on launching this week. There will be more info on the mouse coming soon as well. Many are testing the mouse within the competitive community right now so some info may not be accurate.


Welcome back Jude. I, for one, have been waiting for a long time for this.

Quick question - The amazon page says "1ms click latency, 1ms fully consistent report rate". I didn't notice the 1ms click latency part initially and thought it was just the standard 1ms/1000hz thing that is a part of pretty much all gaming mice ads. Is the scream 1 actually gonna have literally 0 click latency?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Is the scream 1 actually gonna have literally 0 click latency?


lol no, but he'll say yes though.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The scream one could be defined as 0ms click latency or <1ms click latency or 1ms click latency depending on your definition of click latency.

The button is polled as fast or if not faster than the sensor though. You could technically say sensor takes 180us to send motion data. Clicks take no time. So it's simply when the next USB frame is on its way to deliver the click info


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream one could be defined as 0ms click latency or <1ms click latency or 1ms click latency depending on your definition of click latency.


@uaokkkkkkkk is gonna cream his pants if this turns out true and works as intended.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream one could be defined as 0ms click latency or <1ms click latency or 1ms click latency depending on your definition of click latency.
> 
> The button is polled as fast or if not faster than the sensor though. You could technically say sensor takes 180us to send motion data. Clicks take no time. So it's simply when the next USB frame is on its way to deliver the click info


Yep, that's what I intended to ask. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Aventadoor

Whats ur comment regarding the scroll wheel rattle, Jude?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The scroll wheel hasn't been a problem. There is actually no rattle unless it's a defective unit maybe 3-4% . And it's hard to eliminate that 3-4% with our shell design.

I've also seen a rare whobble occur sometimes as well. But we don't have any metrics on how often this happens. It is uncommon.

Sometimes the wheel injection and the encoder just don't match well. And if you shake the mouse hard enough sometimes you can exacerbate the issue.

I have a bigger issue with the wheel that has nothing to do with any rattle. At the moment the wheel is 9% of the mouses weight. Because the wheel is in a good position this doesn't create a weight balance problem but if we were to be able to reduce wheel weight it would make a very significant impact. (Bringing mouse down to 60g range)

So currently working on lighter mousewheel that doesn't break or feel too cheap.


----------



## wareya

Does your button debounce algorithm add zero latency to button releases?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> @uaokkkkkkkk is gonna cream his pants if this turns out true and works as intended.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Does your button debounce algorithm add zero latency to button releases?


There is a debounce count but not on press only after. I can't remember off the top of my head if it's 10, 15, or 20


----------



## NovaGOD

Any news on EU amazon pre-orders/availability?

Also 60g is way too light imo, 75-85g is perfect no need to lower the weight even more, just improve the overall build quality. I assume the switches are standard D2FC-F-7N 20m omrons?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We thought so too but it actually feels pretty good without the mousewheel. I think it can go lighter.

EU will be getting s1 via region exclusive retailers. Shortly after US launch


----------



## roz133

Any idea about south east Asia?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Any idea about south east Asia?


I don't know personally but if you have any preferred retailer I would mention here so I can forward it over. This goes for anyone outside US or EU, just let us know because with s1 pricing and availability is based on our retail partners


----------



## roz133

There's no retailer that covers the entire region afaik. I'm in India and the biggest online retailers here are amazon.in and flipkart.com

If amazon.com has shipping outside US for the scream 1 (like you had for the ergo but not for the TP) that would be a start.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I don't know personally but if you have any preferred retailer I would mention here so I can forward it over. This goes for anyone outside US or EU, just let us know because with s1 pricing and availability is based on our retail partners


for Germany?
Caseking
Mindfactory
Alternate


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scroll wheel hasn't been a problem. There is actually no rattle unless it's a defective unit maybe 3-4% . And it's hard to eliminate that 3-4% with our shell design.
> 
> I've also seen a rare whobble occur sometimes as well. But we don't have any metrics on how often this happens. It is uncommon.
> 
> Sometimes the wheel injection and the encoder just don't match well. And if you shake the mouse hard enough sometimes you can exacerbate the issue.
> 
> I have a bigger issue with the wheel that has nothing to do with any rattle. At the moment the wheel is 9% of the mouses weight. Because the wheel is in a good position this doesn't create a weight balance problem but if we were to be able to reduce wheel weight it would make a very significant impact. (Bringing mouse down to 60g range)
> 
> So currently working on lighter mousewheel that doesn't break or feel too cheap.


Do you have an approximation of the release date if that would happen or how it would work? I feel like it wouldn't make sense to buy a ScreaM One then have you guys come out with a lighter version and have to buy that too, lol.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

It won't be for a while. There will be other editions before we would do something like that


----------



## wareya

You guys should make a mouse with a mini trackpad instead of a scrollwheel to eliminate rattle :^)


----------



## ncck

Glad to see that this thing is seeing the light of day. Good luck on the launch.


----------



## m0uz

I opened up this thread and saw this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> feels pretty good without the mousewheel


Then I thought, "What wacky ideas are they going to be implementing now?"

Then I thought something like this,



Edit: I'll correct my mistake, this


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I don't know personally but if you have any preferred retailer I would mention here so I can forward it over. This goes for anyone outside US or EU, just let us know because with s1 pricing and availability is based on our retail partners


www.gamegear.be for Belgium.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We thought so too but it actually feels pretty good without the mousewheel. I think it can go lighter.


Why are you adding weight to the cable by adding a braid when lightness is priority?
It doesn't help with cord flexibility either, and increases drag.


----------



## wareya

reduce cable related RMAs


----------



## 3Shells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Any news on EU amazon pre-orders/availability?
> 
> Also 60g is way too light imo, 75-85g is perfect no need to lower the weight even more, just improve the overall build quality. I assume the switches are standard D2FC-F-7N 20m omrons?


Yeah, I find a g100s without the weight (69g) too light for my preference and its a fair amount smaller than the scream. Some people really do like light mice though.


----------



## gene-z

When is this mouse releasing? Any places to preorder in USA?


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> reduce cable related RMAs


How?
What are people doing with their cables that a braid prevents it from being destroyed?

If they're ripping them open somehow, that shouldn't be covered by an RMA, that doesn't happen if you are a normal human that takes care of things.


----------



## wareya

uhhh using their mouse?


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> uhhh using their mouse?


???
I use my mouse, don't have problems.
Would take years or maybe even decades of sliding across a table and mousepad to be destroyed, RMA window would be far gone.
It's not like FM has a 5 year warranty, and other things such as clicks and other moving parts will probably become faulty far sooner.


----------



## wareya

https://www.google.com/search?q=mouse+cable+dead&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


----------



## wareya

yeah peoples' cables die from using their mice all the time. the more cheaply made the mouse the faster

braiding makes that take a lot longer to happen


----------



## Hunched

I'd rather have a flexible lightweight fragile cable that dies after 3 years than a stiff heavy durable cable that dies after 6 years.
Who cares how long it lasts if it's not worth using.


----------



## wareya

who said anything about preference, I just said why they did it


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> who said anything about preference, I just said why they did it


In all likeliness, almost all rubber cables will last far longer than the warranty period anyway, so to avoid RMA's doesn't really convince me.

I think the reason is truly because it looks fancier, higher quality, and appeals to people who prefer looks over functionality.
"Oh it doesn't have a fancy braided cable, how cheap, I'm not buying it"

If you're trying to make the "Final Mouse" that is the best performer it can be, you don't go with a braided cable.
People go out of their ways to debraid or replace with fragile CeeSA cables, I don't see anyone going to find the most industrial thick 20 year lasting cables they can find.

My whole point is Final Mouse is making a design choice that will market better, not perform better, and that sucks.
I really hate this braided trend.


----------



## Klopfer

braided cables sux ....
but good mousebungee constrruction can help


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> braided cables sux ....


That's pretty much the consensus on OCN.
I also find it impossible to believe Final Mouse asked the pro CSGO players what type of cable they preferred, and got "braided" as the majority response.


----------



## wareya

of course they're making a bad design choice, it's finalmouse


----------



## Klopfer

I would like to see "Oxygene Free Copper" non braided cables , like for example AKG uses/used , that are great "nonbraided" cables !
Zowie Cables aren't in the same league, they felt like 1-3 steps lower compared to AKG etc ...
Edit:
and the braided ones of nearly every HiFi Company are also much better ...


----------



## FinalmouseJude

There will be options for everyone. All i can really say for now in terms of cable.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> You guys should make a mouse with a mini trackpad instead of a scrollwheel to eliminate rattle :^)


How about we go back to these?



That is actually what my first mouse was, but I had the white version.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scroll wheel hasn't been a problem. There is actually no rattle unless it's a defective unit maybe 3-4% . And it's hard to eliminate that 3-4% with our shell design.


Please do a good job on quality assurance and dont sell those 3-4%. People are gonna rage (bad publicity) and RMA it anyway.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There will be options for everyone. All i can really say for now in terms of cable.


If we get the choice between a braided or unbraided (rubber) cable, that's great.
More companies should have variants for their users preferences.


----------



## Zhuni

Companies need to start marketing rubber cables over braid. It needs to filter down that braid is for nubcakes


----------



## ncck

Also you shouldn't have you mouse cable not taped down or in a bungee, it shouldn't be scraping against any sharp edges

Braided is just awful, options however are great.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There will be options for everyone. All i can really say for now in terms of cable.


can adjust polling rate without reboot?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

No the polling rate is fixed at 1000hz. We do have a firmware utility planned for people that like to fiddle with things, but I dont have a date (this will let people customize polling, dpi, etc..). Before that we still need to finish up our firmware flasher ahead of this first batch. This is currently top priority since first batch is firmware 1.1 and we actually have 1.2 update (adjustments to side button and mousewheel button registration)

But the firmware is 100% built around 1000hz, would not recommend any other usb report rate.


----------



## JsBee

What are the dimensions/grip width of the Scream One? Anyone know?


----------



## Fluxify

They should sponsor with CeeSA so we can get dope cables.. lol.


----------



## Yihaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> No the polling rate is fixed at 1000hz. We do have a firmware utility planned for people that like to fiddle with things, but I dont have a date (this will let people customize polling, dpi, etc..). Before that we still need to finish up our firmware flasher ahead of this first batch. This is currently top priority since first batch is firmware 1.1 and we actually have 1.2 update (adjustments to side button and mousewheel button registration)
> 
> But the firmware is 100% built around 1000hz, would not recommend any other usb report rate.


>Don't have a date.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yihaw*
> 
> >Don't have a date.


Who cares?
They can take as long as they like if they're making improvements.


----------



## wareya

some people actually want to use the mouse though


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JsBee*
> 
> What are the dimensions/grip width of the Scream One? Anyone know?


Same as the tournament pro.

126x68x39


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Same as the tournament pro.
> 
> 126x68x39


Would a Deathadder Chroma user like this mouse?


----------



## Ino.

I don't think that only 1000 Hz being available will be a make it or break it for the Scream one, considering that technically there is no real benefit to lowering polling rate. If the mouse is built well and delivers in performance then offering 500 Hz as an afterthought is alright imo.

I'll be getting one of them and see how it is. The beta model I have had bad build quality, but it was also just a hand built version to test sensor performance etc with and in that regard it did well.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I don't think that only 1000 Hz being available will be a make it or break it for the Scream one, considering that technically there is no real benefit to lowering polling rate. If the mouse is built well and delivers in performance then offering 500 Hz as an afterthought is alright imo.
> 
> I'll be getting one of them and see how it is. The beta model I have had bad build quality, but it was also just a hand built version to test sensor performance etc with and in that regard it did well.


Actually tp's weight was 88~90g different from specification.
S one will ???.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Actually tp's weight was 88~90g different from specification.
> S one will ???.


The one I had was 80g on my scale, but like I said, it was a pre-production model, so I'll see again with the release version.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The one I had was 80g on my scale, but like I said, it was a pre-production model, so I'll see again with the release version.


Thx. I ought to buy only at Amazon?
If amazon does not support directly dilivery and must use shipping agency,
i will receive a defective product it's hard to exchange, refund.
So i think qc is very important.
I'm very disappointed g403 because of poor qc.
I'm korean.
Fm will accommodate Korea this time?
T.T


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Thx. I ought to buy only at Amazon?
> If amazon does not support directly dilivery and must use shipping agency,
> i will receive a defective product it's hard to exchange, refund.
> So i think qc is very important.
> I'm very disappointed g403 because of poor qc.
> I'm korean.
> Fm will accommodate Korea this time?
> T.T


I don't know about Korea and how it will be available, but in general I'd wait until the item in question (whatever it is) is out and more people had their hands on it and could give feedback. But a defective (really not working) unit should always be replaced, doesn't it?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I don't know about Korea and how it will be available, but in general I'd wait until the item in question (whatever it is) is out and more people had their hands on it and could give feedback. But a defective (really not working) unit should always be replaced, doesn't it?


I hope so. People in Asia country are hard to purchase gaming gear.
Thanks for your answer sincerely.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Would a Deathadder Chroma user like this mouse?


Very different shape, fm is smaller a fair amount. It's up to you personally though. The FM is basically less height and less width and the da is just more.. "big"


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Very different shape, fm is smaller a fair amount. It's up to you personally though. The FM is basically less height and less width and the da is just more.. "big"


i have g502,don t like angled shape of ergo because i have long and large hands,like 19cmx9cm...but i use a hybrid palm/claw grip...this mouse can fit for my grip style?


----------



## SEJB

Wait this mouse is actually launching? That's pretty cool and it will be fun to read, reviews.


----------



## hammelgammler

I've not yet had the chance to test the Finalmouse Tournament Pro (seems to be the exact same form), but the shape looks awesome to me!

Hopefully it will launch soon in Germany so I can get my hands on one. No chance to get a Tournament Pro here. :/


----------



## RealSteelH6




----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## wareya

it's an electrical defect :^)


----------



## m4gg0t

Lol, that doesn't look good at all.


----------



## MFlow

G900 vs finalmouse SO ?

I will wait your choice.


----------



## SEJB

Looks like perfection.


----------



## MFlow

Let's look at the sky sometimes...
We have to wait until when?


----------



## costilletas

Who cares about crapmouse anyway lol---


----------



## ncck

That's probably the early firmware they were talking about


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> That's probably the early firmware they were talking about


You mean the super duper optimized, we went through every line of code firmware?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ImportantStarlingDatSheffy


hahah, oh boy


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> No the polling rate is fixed at 1000hz. We do have a firmware utility planned for people that like to fiddle with things, but I dont have a date (this will let people customize polling, dpi, etc..). Before that we still need to finish up our firmware flasher ahead of this first batch. This is currently top priority since first batch is firmware 1.1 and we actually have 1.2 update (adjustments to side button and mousewheel button registration)
> 
> But the firmware is 100% built around 1000hz, would not recommend any other usb report rate.


zone questione forma you,steel a CS pro player had a sky spin with the scream zone,was a beta mouse or final product?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> zone questione forma you,steel a CS pro player had a sky spin with the scream zone,was a beta mouse or final product?


He said they all have an early beta on them and a new firmware is going to be released most likely to fix those issues


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We have found a side button bug on 1.1 firmware but that's it so far.

If a player has one snap to sky in about 8-9 hours of gameplay and it's never seen in over 400 total hours of gameplay then its most likely some dust or debris that got on lens. Would not be firmware issue or any other implementation issue.

Chance of defective lens but it would happen more frequently if that were the case.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We have found a side button bug on 1.1 firmware but that's it so far.
> 
> If a player has one snap to sky in about 8-9 hours of gameplay and it's never seen in over 400 total hours of gameplay then its most likely some dust or debris that got on lens. Would not be firmware issue or any other implementation issue.
> 
> Chance of defective lens but it would happen more frequently if that were the case.


ty for the reply,fm s1 is released soon for sure or we need to wait november/december?


----------



## SEJB

I've never seen that happen with an optical mouse because of debris.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

It's being released this weekend/Monday. Possibly Tuesday.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> I've never seen that happen with an optical mouse because of debris.


Happens to 3310 quite often due to external illumination. 3360 it's much more rare. Can be debris, illumination artifact, or any other thing that can affect the image.


----------



## jsx3

Seems kinda bull to blame on lens rather than just a simple tracking anomaly caused by the users surface. (obv illumination plays a part, but it's not like issues like this weren't noted on G502 3366, but later fixed).

Regardless of external LED/lens, that kinda stuff doesn't just happen. 3310 has various issues, but it's not like the sensor isn't consistent enough on it's optimal surfaces.

I'm not even trying to crap on your every line of perfect code, but it just seems like you're making excuses for a maybe isolated issue with the Zowie Pad he uses.

I own various silicone pads and they all have similar tracking issues with the 336X design. But it's more a case of IR LED's (in general) not functioning properly on the material used.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It's being released this weekend/Monday. Possibly Tuesday.


How much? Where and when can we preorder? Can we get it without that ugly "Scream" logo?


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It's being released this weekend/Monday. Possibly Tuesday.


Lol. Sounds like my developer.


----------



## raiikd

How come summit1g still hasn't gotten one even though he's sponsored?


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raiikd*
> 
> How come summit1g still hasn't gotten one even though he's sponsored?


He doesn't even play anything competitively anymore, he's like full time H1Z1 which is a broken game.
So neither he or FM probably care.


----------



## ralloff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Happens to 3310 quite often due to external illumination. 3360 it's much more rare. Can be debris, illumination artifact, or any other thing that can affect the image.


I can anecdotally back this up; all my 3310 mice had spinout issues on multiple pads related to dust. I think it was more noticeable for me because at the time I was playing ultra low sense, with these spinouts not occurring on other mice.


----------



## ncck

Don't forget steel is using a colored mousepad - so there's always a chance a fast swipe can bugout on it


----------



## wareya

mouse sensors don't see in color and the 336X isn't picky about tracking surface (unless they messed with some kind of calibration for some reason)


----------



## m0uz

Yeah, it's being released this weekend... or Monday... or Tuesday... or Wednesday/Thursday at worst... or next week, actually... or around Christmas/New Year... or Easter 2017... or Autumn 2017... or Christmas 2017...


----------



## RyuLAN

https://twitter.com/SelflessRyu/status/784890712437293057

<3

-Ryu


----------



## coldc0ffee

Lol that light bleed above the sig on m1


----------



## Zhuni

Will there be an EU/Uk launch at same time out do we have to wait?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> do we have to wait?


I thought this was established by now. Of course we'll have to wait... and wait... and wait some more.


----------



## RyuLAN

Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can

-Ryu


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can
> 
> -Ryu


Scroll wheel rattle? How are the mouse feet? Stiff buttons? Hows the braided cable, is it heavy and thick like the Logitech mice cable?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can
> 
> -Ryu


How does the scroll wheel feel compared to lets say the G Pro? How is the mouse3 button? Show the underside maybe, interested to see the mouse feet shape. Sensor performance vs G Pro, 3310 Zowie maybe if you have one? Any problems on different mouse pads? Shell sturdiness?


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can
> 
> -Ryu


Plus include your hand size so we can judge the grip.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can
> 
> -Ryu


Are the steps of the wheel well defined or is it loose like it was before? How much does it weigh for REAL (no marketing specs, just put it on a scale)? How's the click delay compared to say a G303?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Going to record a review of it shortly, let me know the questions so I can be as thorough as I can
> 
> -Ryu


At any point of testing do you actually feel the essence of scream rushing within you?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Lol that light bleed above the sig on m1


I was wondering what the hell that was.


----------



## RyuLAN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Lol that light bleed above the sig on m1


Don't actually see it when looking at it, so think the picture captured something else. Check out the other pics I posted on Twitter--

Recorded and uploading shortly. My washer machine sprayed water all over the downstairs of my house while recording, so that took priority.

After watching it back, it's more me answering questions than it is a normal "review', but overall it's a solid mouse. Might do a "part 2" if needed. Will link it up once the upload finishes.

-Ryu


----------



## RyuLAN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8

-Ryu


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coldc0ffee*
> 
> Lol that light bleed above the sig on m1


Also on the thumb buttons


----------



## raiikd

Looks like summit1g is streaming cs go right now.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8
> 
> -Ryu


You should do a mini TLW for poeple who don't have time to watch the whole video.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8
> 
> -Ryu


Would've been nice if you measured exact dimensions on camera


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xlltt*
> 
> Would've been nice if you measured exact dimensions on camera


The dimensions have already been given.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> After watching it back, it's more me answering questions than it is a normal "review'


Was actually quite nice and refreshing, compared to usual reviews.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The dimensions have already been given.


Where do you see the dimensions for the sensor position given ? Or the exact grip width ?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8
> 
> -Ryu


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Yeah, it's being released this weekend... or Monday... or Tuesday... or Wednesday/Thursday at worst... or next week, actually... or around Christmas/New Year... or Easter 2017... or Autumn 2017... or Christmas 2017...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> mouse sensors don't see in color and the 336X isn't picky about tracking surface (unless they messed with some kind of calibration for some reason)


T.T
My hand is too small. 9.5cm, 17cm
So is too big for my hand?
My grip is claw+palm.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8
> 
> -Ryu


My hand is small size. 9.5cm 17cm
So is too big for my hand?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Do the company owner really thinks people would enjoy a signature like that on their mouse? lol


From what I understand this mouse is crazy popular with CS:GO players and when I tried it there were mostly kids playing so yeah, I think lots of those people will buy this lol.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> From what I understand this mouse is crazy popular with CS:GO players and when I tried it there were mostly kids playing so yeah, I think lots of those people will buy this lol.


I think the main problem with this mouse if anything will be the side grips being slippery - other than that and the price it should be a pretty decent 'performer' from what the TP felt like - it looks like the same exact side - so the TP got realll slippery unfortunately (for me - may vary for you!)

As always I'll give it a run - I've been returning stuff on amazon like a bad boy :>


----------



## Zhuni

What is the side? Textured plastic or rubber coating? They should of put some of Screams side burns on the mouse.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> What is the side? Textured plastic or rubber coating? They should of put some of Screams side burns on the mouse.


On the TP I recall the sides being plastic - but that's just memory I don't have the mouse with me anymore


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xlltt*
> 
> Where do you see the dimensions for the sensor position given ? Or the exact grip width ?


Mouse dimensions are 126x68x39

Sensor position is unknown thus for sure since they moved it up a smidgen from the TP's position.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I think the main problem with this mouse if anything will be the side grips being slippery - other than that and the price it should be a pretty decent 'performer' from what the TP felt like - it looks like the same exact side - so the TP got realll slippery unfortunately (for me - may vary for you!)
> 
> As always I'll give it a run - I've been returning stuff on amazon like a bad boy :>


What!???? For what? You said you found your 'FinalMouse' already.....you are becoming as bad as Vespa lol


----------



## ncck

I'm still using the ec2, I'm just trying things and returning them. I tried the DA and returned it already too lol.. I'll try this also


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm still using the ec2, I'm just trying things and returning them. I tried the DA and returned it already too lol.. I'll try this also


So the G403 is NOT your FM afterall. Lol idk who you are.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Mouse dimensions are 126x68x39
> 
> Sensor position is unknown thus for sure since they moved it up a smidgen from the TP's position.


Exactly my point ! Thats why i said it would be nice if he measured the exact dimensions!


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So, preference, preference, and mostly preference.
> 
> Edit: Also it isn't exactly a Kana. Its a bit smaller length wise with about the same width and height.


Preference? Sure, but its not the safest shape.
If the front was taller and the mouse was taller overall + 2 sidebuttons but sleeker and maybe some more width, it would have been a much safer shape.

Besides that, im kinda anti preference, I think its overrated unless theres any extremes, like G303. Humans arent that complicated.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well let's see
> 
> Materials purchased
> Labor
> Advertising expenses
> Wages payable
> Shipping/logistics
> 
> Add all that up then make a selling price which would cause a break even or return with the expected amount to sell
> 
> At least that's what business classes taught me lol. I still think it's a lot, but i assume price would eventually drop when they could buy materials in larger quantities


For what it's worth and what I learned in business school to get my useless business admin b.s. degree, almost 90% of the expenses usually go to advertising alone (just ask Apple and Beats by Dre). lol


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

btw guys this means jude lived up to one of those promises!


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah gotta pay scream for his Wun Daps


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> btw guys this means jude lived up to one of those promises!


A singular promise was made, but it only came 5 months late.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

no not that one, the one where he said itll release this weekened or monday or tuesday XDDDD


----------



## samxkim

$80 for a mouse? I was actually thinking about buying it but when I saw the price-tag, I'd rather get a G403 lol.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> no not that one, the one where he said itll release this weekened or monday or tuesday XDDDD


Yeah, as I said, it only took them 5 months to finally come through with one that wasn't coming from somewhere else on them that wasn't their mouth...


----------



## VESPA5

If you absolutely must have a mouse with a 336x sensor, there are definitely cheaper alternatives out there. Hey, it's your money. If you wanna try it, buy it. And let us know if it's worth a buy. I'm still hooked on my G403 as my main (it's a miracle that I got a copy with no rattle though)


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yeah I don't know, its more expensive then like any other mouse.
> I am very curious how that price was decided.


It was decided based on how much they think they can gouge people for as most other prices.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Preference? Sure, but its not the safest shape.
> If the front was taller and the mouse was taller overall + 2 sidebuttons but sleeker and maybe some more width, it would have been a much safer shape.
> 
> Besides that, im kinda anti preference, I think its overrated unless theres any extremes, like G303. Humans arent that complicated.


Its pretty safe IMO. Wider, taller front, and taller would actually all make it worse IMO. Also I actually like the 1 button on each side design. Very few people that I know anyway actually use multiple side buttons because it requires too much movement of your grip in most cases. I will admit if I designed it myself the buttons would be a bit smaller, but other than that I think it is nearly perfect. Well I would also prefer separate buttons from the rest of the shell, but that probably is a bad idea with cheap ODM mice for the most part. The main idea is a smaller symmetric mouse that isn't egg shaped. The larger symmetric mouse category already has the Pro S, Revel, and Scream One. The larger ergo has the G403 and DA elite. There aren't really any smaller symmetric or ergo mice right now though aside from the G pro.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> It was decided based on how much they think they can gouge people for as most other prices.
> Its pretty safe IMO. Wider, taller front, and taller would actually all make it worse IMO. Also I actually like the 1 button on each side design. Very few people that I know anyway actually use multiple side buttons because it requires too much movement of your grip in most cases. I will admit if I designed it myself the buttons would be a bit smaller, but other than that I think it is nearly perfect. Well I would also prefer separate buttons from the rest of the shell, but that probably is a bad idea with cheap ODM mice for the most part. The main idea is a smaller symmetric mouse that isn't egg shaped. The larger symmetric mouse category already has the Pro S, Revel, and Scream One. The larger ergo has the G403 and DA elite. There aren't really any smaller symmetric or ergo mice right now though aside from the G pro.


There is, its called FK2. FK2 and Kana are very similar, however, the Kana V2 is slightly wider actually, if I dont remember wrong.

Why would a taller front make it worse? Then you would get more space for your finger on the side.
Just look at the Scream one for example, it looks taller then most ambidextrous mice, so for me its very tempting


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> There is, its called FK2. FK2 and Kana are very similar, however, the Kana V2 is slightly wider actually, if I dont remember wrong.
> 
> Why would a taller front make it worse? Then you would get more space for your finger on the side.
> Just look at the Scream one for example, it looks taller then most ambidextrous mice, so for me its very tempting


I was talking about 3360 mice. Also who is going to palm a mouse that small anyway? If you didn't see that mouse is 120mm long. I guess it might work for people with very small hands, but I wouldn't consider that the main audience of a mouse that size. For claw and fingertip I actually find taller front a bad thing, but maybe others don't. Every shape that isn't catering directly to palm grippers seems to be frowned upon recently though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> safest shape.


Muh safe shape.


----------



## Bucake

damn, $50 too much


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> I'll take one for the team; Ordered


You are a brave soul. Good luck.


----------



## RyuLAN

Isn't the G Pro $70?

I guess with what I spend in mice each year, a price tag <$100 doesn't surprise me. $150 for my G900 was definitely too much.

-Ryu


----------



## b33f

Sigh.. doesn't ship to Canada.
Just my luck, after waiting 8 months for a replacement for my ergo.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Isn't the G Pro $70?
> I guess with what I spend in mice each year, a price tag <$100 doesn't surprise me. $150 for my G900 was definitely too much.
> 
> -Ryu


I had bought g502 for 85 euro shipped when released,then +1with ryu!we spend a lot of money for monitor(250-1000 euro),gpu(300-800 euro), CPU(250-350) for some FPS more or better colors and won t spend 80 dollar for a good mouse?


----------



## RyuLAN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samxkim*
> 
> $80 for a mouse? I was actually thinking about buying it but when I saw the price-tag, I'd rather get a G403 lol.


Played some OW last night testing with the G403... I can't aim with it. I think it's the large bump in the back-- prevents me from getting a good claw grip, and most of my "fine-tuned" aiming comes from my fingertips.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> I had bought g502 for 85 euro shipped when released,then +1with ryu!we spend a lot of money for monitor(250-1000 euro),gpu(300-800 euro), CPU(250-350) for some FPS more or better colors and won t spend 80 dollar for a good mouse?


lol That's true. A 144hz monitor is a massive upgrade in the gaming experience-- and the types that tend to do "mouse research" are often more competitive in nature it seems.

To each his own.

-Ryu


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> I had bought g502 for 85 euro shipped when released,then +1with ryu!we spend a lot of money for monitor(250-1000 euro),gpu(300-800 euro), CPU(250-350) for some FPS more or better colors and won t spend 80 dollar for a good mouse?


Paying $80 for something you MIGHT like is a lot, especially considering the quality control on their previous releases.

On another note, I am buying one because I'm insane.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> I had bought g502 for 85 euro shipped when released,then +1with ryu!we spend a lot of money for monitor(250-1000 euro),gpu(300-800 euro), CPU(250-350) for some FPS more or better colors and won t spend 80 dollar for a good mouse?


Most people here own 10+ mice so it makes a difference.


----------



## kashim

Simeone know when is released in italy/europe and where to buy?beacuse only amazon.com seems to have in stock...nothing on amazon.it or amazon.de


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Isn't the G Pro $70?
> 
> I guess with what I spend in mice each year, a price tag <$100 doesn't surprise me. $150 for my G900 was definitely too much.
> 
> -Ryu


Unfortunately, I spend more on FANS (yes... fans all be it Corsair, ThermalTake, Fractal, etc. etc.). I've finally stuck with one (G403) and I already have a backup case that one wigs out on me (DA:Elite).


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There will be options for everyone. All i can really say for now in terms of cable.


So.... when?
I see 1 option right now, braided.

Also, this is less important since it's just cosmetic but there should really be a variant without the Scream signature, or one with it on the bottom of the mouse or somewhere out of site.

Also, ship to Canada. Or do you not like money? I don't understand.
So many companies refusing the Canadian money lately.
People want to give you money and you're saying no, I'm not allowed to buy this.


----------



## equlix

Ordered, because saving money is no fun.


----------



## SynergyCB

Was going to try this mouse out, but damn that price. Will wait for reviews. If reviews are amazing, then I'll consider buying it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> Ordered, because saving money is no fun.


Then you can buy me 2?


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Then you can buy me 2?


Get me one too.
FinalMouse decided my filthy Canadian peso is worse than no money at all so they don't ship to Canada.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> Isn't the G Pro $70?
> 
> I guess with what I spend in mice each year, a price tag <$100 doesn't surprise me. $150 for my G900 was definitely too much.
> 
> -Ryu


I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Logitech actually designs, develops, and tests their mice from scratch. Finalmouse afaik is just an ODM mouse/MCU with a generic 3360 in it and a scream logo. Similar mice sell for $30-$50 right now.


----------



## shaiaz

Does the shell exist in another mouse ? I know the classic ergo is basically the imperator and have seen the shell for $12 or somethnig on aliexpress. Anyone know if the scream one has a similar story ?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Does the shell exist in another mouse ? I know the classic ergo is basically the imperator and have seen the shell for $12 or somethnig on aliexpress. Anyone know if the scream one has a similar story ?


I think they had the factory make a new shape. I have yet to see someone link a mouse with the same shape, but i have seen FinalMouse PCBs used in other shells.

I didn't try the Tournament Pro because of the price, lack of quality and features. I am not willing to overspend for that mouse just to try the shape.

I am not sure if FinalMouse sent anyone on this forum the Scream1. They did send out marketing copies to streamers.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Does the shell exist in another mouse ? I know the classic ergo is basically the imperator and have seen the shell for $12 or somethnig on aliexpress. Anyone know if the scream one has a similar story ?


Haven't seen a 1:1 match for the tp shell, similar yes but not like the ergo which had an 1:1 counter part

I don't think it's a stock 3360 like someone said above.. I'm sure it's been actually tweaked and probably better than razers implementation


----------



## Aventadoor

Finalmouse is a rather small company (id asume) with kinda bad rep?
Ofcourse they are gonne milk as much as possible with this mouse, and if its failure with many RMA's, then goodbye?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I don't think it's a stock 3360 like someone said above.. I'm sure it's been actually tweaked and probably better than razers implementation


I assume Razer's version is directly from PixArt and FinalMouse's version is from an ODM factory.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Haven't seen a 1:1 match for the tp shell, similar yes but not like the ergo which had an 1:1 counter part
> 
> I don't think it's a stock 3360 like someone said above.. I'm sure it's been actually tweaked and probably better than razers implementation


I'm willing to bet with like 20 to 1 odds that nothing on the sensor or srom side is tweaked. All of their "hard work" was just on MCU firmware I'm pretty sure.

Also I'm pretty sure Ino and maybe qsxcv have already had a prototype version.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I'm willing to bet with like 20 to 1 odds that nothing on the sensor or srom side is tweaked. All of their "hard work" was just on MCU firmware I'm pretty sure.
> 
> Also I'm pretty sure Ino and maybe qsxcv have already had a prototype version.


imo the shape alone is worth it even if it's a "stock" 3360. Ino stated he already had an engineering sample but it was for testing sensor performance only, the build quality was lackluster. I thought qsxcv had little interest in this one because he wasn't familiar with nxp?


----------



## m0uz

You win this time, FinalMouse, with your pesky accurate-ish release dates! *shakes fist*

I'll get my revenge one day, FinalMouse. One daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! *falls into a deep, black abyss*


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Finalmouse is a rather small company (id asume) with kinda bad rep?
> Ofcourse they are gonne milk as much as possible with this mouse, and if its failure with many RMA's, then goodbye?


But, I want a new Ninox Aurora.
Also, ye maybe lul.


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> For what it's worth and what I learned in business school to get my useless business admin b.s. degree, almost 90% of the expenses usually go to advertising alone (just ask Apple and Beats by Dre). lol


It's actually R&D unless your teacher was on crack.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> I don't think it's a fair comparison.
> 
> Logitech actually designs, develops, and tests their mice from scratch. Finalmouse afaik is just an ODM mouse/MCU with a generic 3360 in it and a scream logo. Similar mice sell for $30-$50 right now.


We design our own firmware , pcbs, tooling, hardware/shell, and even program the mcus all in house. Everything was done from "scratch". The s1 uses our NXP MCU we laser engrave and program here in the US, it is the first mouse to be developed for esports in this way . There is actually no mouse that is less "ODM" as you would put it









As for pricing... with retailers and distributors getting this mouse at volume overtime the price should change over time depending on region, and retailer.


----------



## wareya

can you make your own sensor next


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We design our own firmware , pcbs, tooling, hardware/shell, and even program the mcus all in house. Everything was done from "scratch". The s1 uses our NXP MCU we laser engrave and program here in the US, it is the first mouse to be developed for esports in this way . There is actually no mouse that is less "ODM" as you would put it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for pricing... with retailers and distributors getting this mouse at volume overtime the price should change over time depending on region, and retailer.


Was wondering if the S1 would be selling in Australia since Amazon has been set to US only?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I'm willing to bet with like 20 to 1 odds that nothing on the sensor or srom side is tweaked. All of their "hard work" was just on MCU firmware I'm pretty sure.
> 
> Also I'm pretty sure Ino and maybe qsxcv have already had a prototype version.


The "MCU firmware" as you describe it is the main thing governing the implementation of a mouse sensor. SROM is just a single file supplied by pixart for the low level dsp of the sensor. Firmware is what makes the difference between one sensor implementation and another. It can alter motion data, latency, smoothing, anything and everything...


----------



## TestTest11

Can we use this mouse at 500hz? I searched the thread and I can see where it was possible at one point. Just curious if this is still the case.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> it is the first mouse to be developed for esports in this way .


?


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The "MCU firmware" as you describe it is the main thing governing the implementation of a mouse sensor. SROM is just a single file supplied by pixart for the low level dsp of the sensor. Firmware is what makes the difference between one sensor implementation and another. It can alter motion data, latency, smoothing, anything and everything...


Even though you have a "glitch detection" on the DPI button, why did you guys choose to put it on the top but not the bottom of the mouse like Zowie? It's a very rare occasion to see a professional player or even a semi-competitive player change their DPI mid game or on the fly.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

There will be a full product guide on the new website with all the detailed info on the s1 and its features. Will update accordingly.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TestTest11*
> 
> Can we use this mouse at 500hz? I searched the thread and I can see where it was possible at one point. Just curious if this is still the case.


Right now it's 1000hz - but from all the reading we'll be able to do our own tweaks with some type of tool/dev kit - so I'm sure you'll eventually be able to run at 500hz - although the 3360/3366 is actually really good at staying near 1000hz (so good that you wouldn't really need to use 500hz)

I'm just not sure what I'm going to do about the braid - I may actually return the first one I get the last day and just wait patiently for the rubber version if I do like the mouse - or see if it's possible to send in and have them change the cable for me (no I'm not doing it myself, I set a g303 on fire doing it myself..







)

edit: @Jude - users left some fake reviews on your amazon page already, you'll want to clear those

edit2:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> ?


people like to use 500hz cause it has less 'variance' but all the 3360/logitech ones I have here are pretty stable near 1000hz - so it's fine to use 1000hz


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> although the 3360/3366 is actually really good at staying near 1000hz (so good that you wouldn't really need to use 500hz)


?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> people like to use 500hz cause it has less 'variance' but all the 3360/logitech ones I have here are pretty stable near 1000hz - so it's fine to use 1000hz


What does 500hz have anything to do with the 3360?


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> What does 500hz have anything to do with the 3360?


500hz is more cinematic ?%?


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> What does 500hz have anything to do with the 3360?


most people pick 500hz for consistency i guess

edit : nvm u already got that, you're just asking whats specific about the 3360, I read the post before and got confused


----------



## Melan

Assuming they can't run 1000hz consistently, 500hz won't save them.


----------



## gunit2004

Can the LED light be turned off?


----------



## P54J

Release date for europe?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> What does 500hz have anything to do with the 3360?


?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> ?


How consistant a mouse is at 1000hz has basically nothing to do with the sensor even if the inconsistency is due to the mouse.


----------



## ncck

OK well on my machine my Logitech mice hold 1000hz with less variance than my 3310 mice - both hold 500hz without any movement.. that's what I was saying


----------



## Bucake

if you mean "missed polls", then that's the firmware. if you mean worse looking polling plots in mousetester, then that's caused by a change in circumstances (on your system).
for example if you hook up a 3310 mouse that reports stably at 1khz, and very few processes are running on your system, the plot is gonna look much better than plots of a 3366 mouse while having 10 twitch streams running in chrome


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Can the LED light be turned off?


electrical tape if it cant







(or snipping the LED inside)


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> 500hz is more cinematic ?%?


HAHAHAHA


----------



## MFlow

I have tiny hand. 9cm 16cm
Is it hard to use SO for me?


----------



## aayman_farzand

So much talk about latencies and not a single measurement has been provided. Ryu please do the bump test at least.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Is Ryu a gamer? Cause his review is like "clicks feel good". Would be more interesting, since he mentioned how he liked Finalmouse's mission statement, that he would evaluate it. If in fact any of what they tried to accomplish is better or the same, or worse than Logitech's offering. It's basically a physical review, which is fine, but really lacking any depth.

No offense Ryu, you seem like a pretty chill dude and the video was nice, just thought there would be a review of the mouse in action.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Is Ryu a gamer? Cause his review is like "clicks feel good". Would be more interesting, since he mentioned how he liked Finalmouse's mission statement, that he would evaluate it. If in fact any of what they tried to accomplish is better or the same, or worse than Logitech's offering. It's basically a physical review, which is fine, but really lacking any depth.
> 
> No offense Ryu, you seem like a pretty chill dude and the video was nice, just thought there would be a review of the mouse in action.


I think he owns a GO team [Selfless].

The video was more of a QA video because people wanted that.


----------



## RyuLAN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Is Ryu a gamer? Cause his review is like "clicks feel good". Would be more interesting, since he mentioned how he liked Finalmouse's mission statement, that he would evaluate it. If in fact any of what they tried to accomplish is better or the same, or worse than Logitech's offering. It's basically a physical review, which is fine, but really lacking any depth.
> 
> No offense Ryu, you seem like a pretty chill dude and the video was nice, just thought there would be a review of the mouse in action.


Former Pro CS:GO player, owner of Selfless, and yes, I still game.

I also took questions from this forum to answer in the video--

-Ryu


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> As for pricing... with retailers and distributors getting this mouse at volume overtime the price should change over time depending on region, and retailer.


Don't care about the pricing at all JUST WANT to buy this from one of our retailers here in Australia.

At least start selling this model on Ebay so us isolated cretins here in Convict Town, can bring them in quickly once paid for.


----------



## trhead

There are already 4 joke reviews on Amazon. Why is Amazon allowing this? If there is no proof you purchased it, you shouldn't be able to write a "review".


----------



## trism

I wonder what the EU price will be if it will ever be sold in EU. Ordering it from US Amazon would probably bump the price to ~$100-150 (import tax+VAT+shipping costs).


----------



## RealSteelH6

I hope the EU gets the second edition with everything fixed


----------



## -IIToRII-

*@Jude= Is there any info on the EU release ?*
I own both the g-pro and the g403 and ec-2a so would be nice to test this as well.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> There are already 4 joke reviews on Amazon. Why is Amazon allowing this? If there is no proof you purchased it, you shouldn't be able to write a "review".


Afaik if you bought it your review at least gets a "verified purchase" flag.


----------



## hammelgammler

I would like to know the EU (Germany) release date too. Very interested in the shape!


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Afaik if you bought it your review at least gets a "verified purchase" flag.


None of the people bought it, I already reported those but Amazon never takes them down.. I think the seller needs to report the posts


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> None of the people bought it, I already reported those but Amazon never takes them down.. I think the seller needs to report the posts


Yeah I know. They obviously just follow the "wun taps" meme.


----------



## RyuLAN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yeah I know. They obviously just follow the "wun taps" meme.


https://streamable.com/dczx - Posted on the CSGO Subreddit today

-Ryu


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://streamable.com/dczx - Posted on the CSGO Subreddit today
> 
> -Ryu


I'll be honest, elige is way faster and better with the usp - I don't think I've ever played against a better pistol round player than elige - which is funny cause like 2-3 years ago he was just a dookie matchmaking player

screams aim is sick - but I don't think he works on other areas where he's weaker enough - during matches you just see him getting caught out all the time.. it's like he just wants headshots and nothing else lol


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'll be honest, elige is way faster and better with the usp - I don't think I've ever played against a better pistol round player than elige - which is funny cause like 2-3 years ago he was just a dookie matchmaking player
> 
> screams aim is sick - but I don't think he works on other areas where he's weaker enough - during matches you just see him getting caught out all the time.. it's like he just wants headshots and nothing else lol


hands down the dumbest thing ive read today as far as cs is concerned and im not even in the csgo sub. impressive


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> hands down the dumbest thing ive read today as far as cs is concerned and im not even in the csgo sub. impressive


http://www.hltv.org/match/2305193-g2-liquid-esl-one-new-york-2016&half=0&gamestatid=36060#stats

Edit: btw try playing with elige before calling my post stupid, he's top tier pistol round player and performing very consistently at offline events


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> http://www.hltv.org/match/2305193-g2-liquid-esl-one-new-york-2016&half=0&gamestatid=36060#stats
> 
> Edit: btw try playing with elige before calling my post stupid, he's top tier pistol round player and performing very consistently at offline events


Then why doesn't he have his own mouse?


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> https://streamable.com/dczx - Posted on the CSGO Subreddit today
> 
> -Ryu


Have you used the Deathadder Chroma before? Would a user coming from that mouse like this?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Have you used the Deathadder Chroma before? Would a user coming from that mouse like this?


They're pretty different, deathadder is bigger.. and has more of a 'forced' groove feeling around the m1/m2 buttons

I think the TP shape allows a little bit more freedom in how you hold it - despite DA claiming to work for 'all' grips it really doesn't feel like that because of how big the thing is. But just know the TP shape is smaller feeling in hand - if you hate your DA then try this I guess? If you don't then it may not be what you expect in shape but hey it's up to you and amazon is really easy to do returns with

edit1: My S1 says it's arriving this friday


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> edit1: My S1 says it's arriving this friday


ditto
*edit* not ditto anymore, thursday
*edit2* shipping today


----------



## Hunched

So when is the mouse going to be available outside of the US?
I have a tip for you about making money FM, allow your product to be sold to millions of more people, it's a pretty genius business strategy if I do say so myself.


----------



## roz133

Same question. Y not at least have shipping outside US from amazon like the ergo had. Region specific retailers are nice but we're an impatient lot and I'd happily buy from amazon n pay for shipping n customs.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Same question. Y not at least have shipping outside US from amazon like the ergo had. Region specific retailers are nice but we're an impatient lot and I'd happily buy from amazon n pay for shipping n customs.


We're throwing money at our screens and they're tossing it back.
Maybe it's some new type of psychological marketing strategy, we want it more because we can't have it.









I'm not familiar with FinalMouse and how they work with retailers, they're a smaller company compared to Logitech and Razer so I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't available at any local retailers and just stick with big things like Amazon.

This means I'll probably not be able to even buy this mouse unless they change it to allow shipping from Amazon.com to Canada.
Amazon.ca is a deserted wasteland, nothing goes on there.


----------



## gunit2004

When will there be a black version (preferably without the Signature) be available? I don't really want a smurf looking mouse on my desktop if I don't have to.


----------



## Maximillion

Ordered.

I have no expectations.

#Tweaking #Optimization #Tooling #Improvements #Details #PerformanceBenchmarks #InHouseEverything #IndustryPinnacle #ExtensionOfBodyNoYogaClass #BiblicalVirtueOfPatience


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Ordered.
> 
> I have no expectations.


That's the best kind of ordered


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They're pretty different, deathadder is bigger.. and has more of a 'forced' groove feeling around the m1/m2 buttons
> 
> I think the TP shape allows a little bit more freedom in how you hold it - despite DA claiming to work for 'all' grips it really doesn't feel like that because of how big the thing is. But just know the TP shape is smaller feeling in hand - if you hate your DA then try this I guess? If you don't then it may not be what you expect in shape but hey it's up to you and amazon is really easy to do returns with
> 
> edit1: My S1 says it's arriving this friday


The Deathadder is the only "gaming" mouse I've used. How would an Amazon return work exactly?

I have pretty large hands and want to try out a lighter mouse just for this reason..


----------



## Hunched

I'd like to know...
1. When/if there will be a version with a rubber cable
2. When/if there will be a version without the Scream signature
3. When/if this will be able to be purchased by Canadians

A lot of people want to know about availability in other regions like EU and Australia.
Jude already said we would have options when it comes to the cable, but we don't...
Would be cool if any of these questions were answered in the next day or so.

Suppose I'll stop posting if I'm not even going to be able to buy one, not interested in something I can't own.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> The Deathadder is the only "gaming" mouse I've used. How would an Amazon return work exactly?
> 
> I have pretty large hands and want to try out a lighter mouse just for this reason..


It's pretty simple - on the amazon page you click 'return this item' then under reasons put 'I didn't authorize this purchase' then they send you a shipping label immediately - you pack the original item into any box you have, tape it up, apply the shipping label and drop it off at a UPS store

edit: you can select UPS dropoff or USPS I believe - then you get a full refund to your original payment method (make sure you check that box cause it defaults to 'amazon cash balance' and after like 3 business days it will be back in your checking account

@kommando - I'm assuming you used 1 day shipping? I may get it on Thursday too because sometimes I get lucky with 2 day shipping - mine says shipping today as well.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

YUP


----------



## NovaGOD

We got the g403 earlier and beta test it for you guys in the US, now return the favor and test the crap out of S1 please.
















I really want this mouse despite my bad experience with fm 2015 and all those delays and inflated claims, da elite is a no go due to synapse crap and g403 is more like a jack of all trades mouse for me.


----------



## ncck

Mine is arriving tomorrow and I used two day shipping. So 1 day faster than expected


----------



## VESPA5

For $80 USD, I can probably throw in a couple of more bucks to get a brand new mechanical keyboard. I was tempted in dropping cash for this but after I finally got a clean copy of the G403, I haven't really
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> We got the g403 earlier and beta test it for you guys in the US, now return the favor and test the crap out of S1 please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want this mouse despite my bad experience with fm 2015 and all those delays and inflated claims, da elite is a no go due to synapse crap and g403 is more like a jack of all trades mouse for me.


Lol. Unfortunately, sad, but true. Logitech realized all the EU customers having scroll wheel rattle issues that only THEN did they decide to do something about it.

I'm really skeptical about the Scream One. Project Management 101 - delays mean possible operations at a loss where ROI is in the negative, which is most likely why the price point is so high (close to $80 USD?!). I've only owned one FinalMouse product: their 2016 Tournament Pro and it FELT CHEAP and one of the most important buttons on a mouse (M1) stopped actuating for me, resulting in a return (thanks Amazon). If the Scream One is a subtle cookie cutter clone of their TP 2016 with blue paint and an annoying logo, then l'll pass. For those who buy into this new mouse, I look forward to their hands-on review before I throw any more money at this company.


----------



## SmashTV

For $20 more you can get a Revel PLUS the Moda tenkeyless from Nixeus.


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> We're throwing money at our screens and they're tossing it back.
> Maybe it's some new type of psychological marketing strategy, we want it more because we can't have it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with FinalMouse and how they work with retailers, they're a smaller company compared to Logitech and Razer so I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't available at any local retailers and just stick with big things like Amazon.
> 
> This means I'll probably not be able to even buy this mouse unless they change it to allow shipping from Amazon.com to Canada.
> Amazon.ca is a deserted wasteland, nothing goes on there.


I'm sure we'll see it on Amazon.ca soon from a third party seller. It'll be like that two hundred dollar Za13 that's up there right now.


----------



## b33f

For everyone not in the US:
https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalMouse/comments/5ad15k/finalmouse_scream_one_available_for_purchase_on/d9il599


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b33f*
> 
> For everyone not in the US:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalMouse/comments/5ad15k/finalmouse_scream_one_available_for_purchase_on/d9il599


Haha this just gets better and better.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> Haha this just gets better and better.


ok now s released and need to wait for europe shipping


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b33f*
> 
> For everyone not in the US:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalMouse/comments/5ad15k/finalmouse_scream_one_available_for_purchase_on/d9il599


For a convenient fee of $100 plus items original cost and shipping to your region this mouse can be all yours! Contact NotScammingYouThatBadly on the forum today!


----------



## aayman_farzand

Damn and they promised simultaneous global launch lol.

At least it's in the market, I'm trying to get one shipped through a friend's visiting parent. ncck, your review will determine whether I ask him to return it or not


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Damn and they promised simultaneous global launch lol.
> 
> At least it's in the market, I'm trying to get one shipped through a friend's visiting parent. ncck, your review will determine whether I ask him to return it or not


I might just do a short video this time it's easier than typing 9000 paragraphs.. then again I don't have a tripod ... lol

anyway I'll have it tomorrow and prob write about it during the weekend after I have like 10 hours on it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Just rate the rawness for us.


I'll plug in my CRT to measure the accurate rawness in the most raw way possible


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I might just do a short video this time it's easier than typing 9000 paragraphs.. then again I don't have a tripod ... lol
> 
> anyway I'll have it tomorrow and prob write about it during the weekend after I have like 10 hours on it


Just rate the rawness for us.


----------



## Zhuni

My rawness is high cause of no EU availability


----------



## Vyrth

If someone from EU really can't wait, you can order it with borderlinx.com, I calculated the shipping and it would cost 30$ (without taxes), which is the usual price for almost anything to ship from the US to EU. But I personally would never give 110$ for a Finalmouse


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vyrth*
> 
> If someone from EU really can't wait, you can order it with borderlinx.com, I calculated the shipping and it would cost 30$ (without taxes), which is the usual price for almost anything to ship from the US to EU. But I personally would never give 110$ for a Finalmouse


110$ without taxes is like 140/150$ ehm.....no XD


----------



## Vyrth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> 110$ without taxes is like 140/150$ ehm.....no XD


Yeah I know, but I thought maybe we have some people on here that don't care about money


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> For a convenient fee of $100 plus items original cost and shipping to your region this mouse can be all yours! Contact NotScammingYouThatBadly on the forum today!


Wow bro, that is such a rip-off...

I happen to be offering the Scream One with a convenience fee of only $59.99, plus original cost and shipping!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Finally is gonna be in multiple hands. Mine will be here tomorrow afternoon. Let's see if it comes close to the hype they have gotten around the mouse.


----------



## popups

I guess people will stick by you and give you money regardless of what you do to them.


----------



## Bucake

very melodramatic









you're obviously right though. but i haven't seen a certain bunch of people around here for a while. did they get one via the labs program maybe? it would be at least interesting to see how superbly awesome the firmware is, and if that 'firmware feature' works well.


----------



## Alya

As much as I hate FM if reviews roll in and it's good, I'll probably try it out, can't be worse than the Abby v2 and I'm interested in that...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> very melodramatic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're obviously right though. but i haven't seen a certain bunch of people around here for a while. did they get one via the labs program maybe? it would be at least interesting to see how superbly awesome the firmware is, and if that 'firmware feature' works well.


It's funny how people spent months complaining about FM, then when the mouse comes out they act like they never said one negative thing and are willing to overspend even though they complained about the prices since the original FinalMouse Ergo.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Like Razer threads, the vast majority of people who wont go near these companies just don't bother posting, I'd speculate.

Save for maybe Elrick the Crusader.


----------



## Hunched

Now that the mouse is out it's super cool that Jude has disappeared and is no longer answering anyone's questions...
Anyways, it was already posted here linking to reddit and I got the same reply yesterday about availability from emailing FinalMouse support.

"The Scream1 is now available in the United States and we will begin expansion to accommodate greater global reach in the upcoming months. There is no exact ETA for availability in Europe, the UK, Canada and Asia. Please follow our Twitter @Finalmouse for direct updates coming soon regarding these questions. We appreciate your patience!

Thanks,
Finalmouse Support"

I suppose Jude just has no idea what's going on and that's why he didn't answer anyone.
He reads this topic and says nothing lol.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Our web guys are putting up the new site as I write this. If you visit it you may be able to view the full product guide if its been put up, not sure if it has yet.

Retailers will also be put up there as they get a hold of s1's. Right now its just amazon US. Next week amazon may be able to ship to canada and international. Not sure on this. Other retailers will probably be in the coming weeks (each retailer will vary). I urge anyone in a certain region to contact their preferable boutique esports/hardware retailer and inquire about s1's.... Since at this point its a footrace on which retailer handles logistics faster to get stock.

When I learn more on availability I will let you guys know.

Our actual official launch announcement may not be until later tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## TestTest11

http://www.finalmouse.com/screamonewhitepaper.pdf


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TestTest11*
> 
> http://www.finalmouse.com/screamonewhitepaper.pdf


Good find.


----------



## m0uz

"Damn, guys, we need an excuse for our delays."

"Umm... we make up random dates for our 'firmware history' that we 'made ourselves'."

"GENIUS!"

"But, yeah, we should shove it into an official looking document so that people actually believe us."

"EVEN MORE GENIUS! *Evil laugh*"


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There will be options for everyone. All i can really say for now in terms of cable.


Do you know when you will be able to say more?
Will there be a version without the Scream signature many people have been vocal about disliking?

Will we ever have answers to these 2 questions?
I think I've asked like 3 times myself, not counting everyone else wanting a variant without the signature.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Do you know when you will be able to say more?
> Will there be a version without the Scream signature many people have been vocal about disliking?
> 
> Will we ever have answers to these 2 questions?


"We'll get back to you... in seven years... or so"


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> "We'll get back to you... in seven years... or so"


I believe it.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The scream signature is changing. The design of future scream ones will not look anything like the current first edition blue.

I cant reveal more than this. They will be announced and shown at some point.....

The new logo and sig for scream can be seen on new site once the servers update/caches update for everyone. Site is still under maintenance atm i believe.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Do you know when you will be able to say more?
> Will there be a version without the Scream signature many people have been vocal about disliking?
> 
> Will we ever have answers to these 2 questions?
> I think I've asked like 3 times myself, not counting everyone else wanting a variant without the signature.


Our actual official launch announcement may not be until later tonight or tomorrow.

After the official launch would be my first guess


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream signature is changing. The design of future scream ones will not look anything like the current first edition blue.
> 
> I cant reveal more than this. They will be announced and shown at some point.....
> 
> The new logo and sig for scream can be seen on new site once the servers update/caches update for everyone. Site is still under maintenance atm i believe.


A new edition already? Does it have the obnoxious signature on the top on the bottom now?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> very melodramatic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Our web guys are putting up the new site as I write this. If you visit it you may be able to view the full product guide if its been put up, not sure if it has yet.
> 
> Retailers will also be put up there as they get a hold of s1's. Right now its just amazon US. Next week amazon may be able to ship to canada and international. Not sure on this. Other retailers will probably be in the coming weeks (each retailer will vary). I urge anyone in a certain region to contact their preferable boutique esports/hardware retailer and inquire about s1's.... Since at this point its a footrace on which retailer handles logistics faster to get stock.
> 
> When I learn more on availability I will let you guys know.
> 
> Our actual official launch announcement may not be until later tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> you're obviously right though. but i haven't seen a certain bunch of people around here for a while. did they get one via the labs program maybe? it would be at least interesting to see how superbly awesome the firmware is, and if that 'firmware feature' works well.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Our web guys are putting up the new site as I write this. If you visit it you may be able to view the full product guide if its been put up, not sure if it has yet.
> 
> Retailers will also be put up there as they get a hold of s1's. Right now its just amazon US. Next week amazon may be able to ship to canada and international. Not sure on this. Other retailers will probably be in the coming weeks (each retailer will vary). I urge anyone in a certain region to contact their preferable boutique esports/hardware retailer and inquire about s1's.... Since at this point its a footrace on which retailer handles logistics faster to get stock.
> 
> When I learn more on availability I will let you guys know.
> 
> Our actual official launch announcement may not be until later tonight or tomorrow.


I receive goods in Korea.
I ordered from Amazon yesterday.
Please be a good quality product.
Because exchange is difficult....
I had trouble because of the quality of the g403.
I believe in Jude.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> A new edition already? Does it have the obnoxious signature on the top on the bottom now?


Cant say. Even though I am using one of the new editions


----------



## m0uz

Well, at least the PCB is done. All they need to do now is repaint the shell...

Wonder how long that will take them


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream signature is changing. The design of future scream ones will not look anything like the current first edition blue.
> 
> I cant reveal more than this. They will be announced and shown at some point.....
> 
> The new logo and sig for scream can be seen on new site once the servers update/caches update for everyone. Site is still under maintenance atm i believe.


Thank you.
I hope the logo is somewhere more discrete, such as the bottom of the mouse, or even along the side in a smaller less obnoxious sized and styled font.
This would be a tasteful place to put it in my opinion.


And rubber cable, I beg you lol.
Rubber cable, less obnoxious signature, and available in Canada so I can actually have the damn thing and this looks like perfection.

Unless something about this mouse is terrible that is yet to be seen, it looks perfect to me with just a few minor easy changes, one of which is merely a cosmetic signature, the other just a cable.
Neither of those things are bad enough to stop me from purchasing it though, if I could purchase it right now...


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Cant say. Even though I am using one of the new editions


Are you allowed to give an ETA on releases of new editions?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Are you allowed to give an ETA on releases of new editions?


No I am not.

Only way to get info before its announced on twitter (as far as im aware) is to go to eleague atlanta and find a finalmouse marketing rep and/or see what mouse screams using. New editions are pretty tightly under wraps.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> No I am not.
> 
> Only way to get info before its announced on twitter (as far as im aware) is to go to eleague atlanta and find a finalmouse marketing rep and/or see what mouse screams using. New editions are pretty tightly under wraps.


How would the releases of the new editions work? Are you guys going to release them one at a time, all at once, tell us about all the other editions once you release the second edition, or what? It would be pretty annoying to spend $80 on a mouse and then have to spend $80 again in a couple months for the new edition that is better & improved lol.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> A new edition already? Does it have the obnoxious signature on the top on the bottom now?


They probably made the shells ahead of getting the PCB and firmware done. Then they seen the complaints about the colour and the signature, so they are changing it for the next batch of shells.

You know... Zowie style?


----------



## wareya

> Led's were replaced by SMT LED's to reduce weight

so SMT really is back in the game


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> > Led's were replaced by SMT LED's to reduce weight
> 
> so SMT really is back in the game


Wouldn't removing the LEDs entirely be best? o_o
I really don't know anyone who is buying a 'hardcore performance mouse' that actually wants leds - or maybe I'm speaking for myself?

edit: Ah didn't know!


----------



## wareya

no that's the tracking illumination LED

I was trying to make fun of things that made an effort to eliminate surface-mount parts at all costs


----------



## a_ak57

I still find it kind of adorable that Jude acts like he's some lowly intern with no power amidst the thousands of employees at the FM corporation. Let's be real, if you told us about this new edition the other 3 people you work with would say "Wait I thought we were holding off on announcing that, oh well, you're the entire marketing department so it's up to you."


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The scream signature is changing. The design of future scream ones will not look anything like the current first edition blue.
> 
> I cant reveal more than this. They will be announced and shown at some point.....
> 
> The new logo and sig for scream can be seen on new site once the servers update/caches update for everyone. Site is still under maintenance atm i believe.


I bought one that is arriving tomorrow. But I probably will return it unless I am absolutely in love. Since your revisions are going to better...why would I keep the first edition? Idk...seems like such a bad business plan. Offer all the options or no options. I'll beta test this for you for 30 days. Thanks for the opportunity


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I still find it kind of adorable that Jude acts like he's some lowly intern with no power amidst the thousands of employees at the FM corporation. Let's be real, if you told us about this new edition the other 3 people you work with would say "Wait I thought we were holding off on announcing that, oh well, you're the entire marketing department so it's up to you."


Everything ever written from the FM camp (this forum, twitter, the FM website, reddit, tumblr, etc) looks like it was written by the same guy.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Everything ever written from the FM camp (this forum, twitter, the FM website, reddit, tumblr, etc) looks like it was written by the same guy.


And that same guy really needs an editor.


----------



## bgaccord

What state they ship from?


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bgaccord*
> 
> What state they ship from?


texas


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> but i haven't seen a certain bunch of people around here for a while. did they get one via the labs program maybe? it would be at least interesting to see how superbly awesome the firmware is, and if that 'firmware feature' works well.


I should be getting the release version of the Scream One, I'll share my opinion on it then. So far I got nothing new and hence nothing to speculate about. I'm curious to see the changes compared to the version I got before to test the sensor (which was completely fine). I just hope the shell quality is fixed.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I should be getting the release version of the Scream One, I'll share my opinion on it then. So far I got nothing new and hence nothing to speculate about. I'm curious to see the changes compared to the version I got before to test the sensor (which was completely fine). I just hope the shell quality is fixed.


you already have the new version or need to wait it?


----------



## ncck

Yeah Jude just an fyi, you never say a better version of something is coming out when you just launched because even if people like it they're going to return it

No silly signature? Rubber cable? New firmware? Yeah you're going to get a bunch of RMA/ Amazon returns as soon as that announcement hits. Or allow people to ship it in and somehow get the upgrade... Like no joke I'd whack mine with a hammer to get a rubber cable version (if I like it)

Kashim he needs to wait


----------



## Nivity

Well, since I guess we wont see an EU release in several months I guess we get the new version, lol.
*positive thinking*


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> you already have the new version or need to wait it?


I'm waiting.


----------



## VESPA5

My first impressions with my only FinalMouse involved me saying "this WILL be the final time I buy a mouse from this company" as I quickly returned my defective TP 2016 via Amazon. I'm gonna wait till I see a bunch of reviews on this. I already saw a few vids about the mouse and what you get doesn't seem to justify the price point. The price point hints at recovering some of the loss from the negative ROI due to all the delays.


----------



## NovaGOD

These new editions will hurt the sales of S1, imo it's a bad business decision to announce a new version so soon, it's not like it's a cheap mouse to beta test. Either offer all the options from the start or wait for S1 to end it's life cycle like every other company does. As long as it's only cosmetic differences like color/no sig etc. i dont care but if we are talking about shape/different switches/firmware/cable then everyone who bought s1 will be mad i can assure you that.


----------



## a_ak57

To be fair, Jude mentioned it to an audience who should be aware that this new version probably won't come out until 2018. If you want to buy the current one you're fine.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> To be fair, Jude mentioned it to an audience who should be aware that this new version probably won't come out until 2018. If you want to buy the current one you're fine.


ooooooo....we have an arsonist over here.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yeah Jude just an fyi, you never say a better version of something is coming out when you just launched because even if people like it they're going to return it
> 
> No silly signature? Rubber cable? New firmware? Yeah you're going to get a bunch of RMA/ Amazon returns as soon as that announcement hits. Or allow people to ship it in and somehow get the upgrade... Like no joke I'd whack mine with a hammer to get a rubber cable version (if I like it)
> 
> Kashim he needs to wait


Everyone knows a "better" DeathAdder is coming in 1-2 years yet they don't care. People will still buy it because they don't want to wait and don't mind buying every version (much like Apple consumers).

I rather know there is a new version coming out before I buy the one I don't really like anyway. That way I can wait rather than waste my money.


----------



## Demi9OD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> We're throwing money at our screens and they're tossing it back.
> Maybe it's some new type of psychological marketing strategy, we want it more because we can't have it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with FinalMouse and how they work with retailers, they're a smaller company compared to Logitech and Razer so I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't available at any local retailers and just stick with big things like Amazon.
> 
> This means I'll probably not be able to even buy this mouse unless they change it to allow shipping from Amazon.com to Canada.
> Amazon.ca is a deserted wasteland, nothing goes on there.


Move to Florida or something man. Maybe it's all that cold weather that makes you constantly angry.


----------



## ncck

just got mine.. unfortunately can't test it because the LMB is 100% broken, doesn't actuate..







or rather it's permanently 'pressed in'

what would be faster, back to amazon or fm support?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> just got mine.. unfortunately can't test it because the LMB is 100% broken, doesn't actuate..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or rather it's permanently 'pressed in'
> 
> what would be faster, back to amazon or fm support?


1000% Amazon.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 1000% Amazon.


ok I sent them a support e-mail anyway, won't be able to send it back today... unlucky and annoying


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> just got mine.. unfortunately can't test it because the LMB is 100% broken, doesn't actuate..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or rather it's permanently 'pressed in'
> 
> what would be faster, back to amazon or fm support?


You get a pre-paid shipping label with amazon right away. The only thing that takes time is them to get the mouse, and process the return.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> just got mine.. unfortunately can't test it because the LMB is 100% broken, doesn't actuate..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or rather it's permanently 'pressed in'
> 
> what would be faster, back to amazon or fm support?


Well, this is a good start for the first recipient.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> just got mine.. unfortunately can't test it because the LMB is 100% broken, doesn't actuate..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or rather it's permanently 'pressed in'
> 
> what would be faster, back to amazon or fm support?


I think you mean it is permanently wun tapped?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xlltt*
> 
> I think you mean it is permanently wun tapped?


Yep just tried it in-game, my gun wouldn't stop firing :d

Also the braided cable is as bad as expected - but the mouse is light as heck and glides well - plus the forward sensor position actually isn't bad. I think I may enjoy a proper functioning one but for sure the braided cable needs to go - I wouldn't have even bothered producing this mouse with that cable

So if/when I get one that works I may like it a lot!


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

If you look at the exploded view of the diagram of the mouse the square omron contact on the bottom of the mouse button probably got caught on something in the shell per the diagram


----------



## m0uz

I wouldn't bother returning it. I hear they take longer than Logitech... like, they keep you thinking that you'll get the return label but they make up excuses over the course of 7 months before they actually give it to you


----------



## ncck

Ok bad news, amazon doesn't allow exchanges for this product right now - only refunds

So unless FM support comes in clutch I'm going to have to return it, wait 3 business days for a refund, then buy it again and wait another 2 business days... ***

edit: or wait, I can refund it - select amazon balance - that should come immediately after dropping off the package - then re-order? I just don't know if the balance would come when they get the product or immediately when I drop it off at the UPS store


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Ok bad news, amazon doesn't allow exchanges for this product right now - only refunds
> 
> So unless FM support comes in clutch I'm going to have to return it, wait 3 business days for a refund, then buy it again and wait another 2 business days... ***


I did warn that it would take 7 months


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yep just tried it in-game, my gun wouldn't stop firing :d
> 
> Also the braided cable is as bad as expected - but the mouse is light as heck and glides well - plus the forward sensor position actually isn't bad. I think I may enjoy a proper functioning one but for sure the braided cable needs to go - I wouldn't have even bothered producing this mouse with that cable
> 
> So if/when I get one that works I may like it a lot!


I would contact our support it would be faster than amazon. Tell them I directed you and you want expedited shipping.

Just curious do you feel the button actuate at all? Is the left click stuck on it? Try lifting the left click up gently. If something is physically pressing down on the switch it should be an easy fix. Don't worry about breaking it further just tell support I directed you to them if anything breaks further.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I did warn that it would take 7 months


Login in to ask for a refund, instantly print the label, tape it to the box, drop it off same day, wait 1-3 days for it to make it to an Amazon warehouse and receive your refund.

I got a refund for the Pro after a day. Before I bought the Pro I asked for a refund for the G403, I ordered the Pro as that was being done.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I would contact our support it would be faster than amazon. Tell them I directed you and you want expedited shipping.
> 
> Just curious do you feel the button actuate at all? Is the left click stuck on it? Try lifting the left click up gently. If something is physically pressing down on the switch it should be an easy fix. Don't worry about breaking it further just tell support I directed you to them if anything breaks further.


It can actuate but it will get 'stuck' and say you're in-game it won't stop firing, also if you compare the RMB to the LMB, the LMB doesn't go 'down' aka you can see that with your eyes. I tried to 'lift' the LMB but no cigar

wrote to support with what you said and my S/N + address so hopefully it can be quick.. really want to get some playtime with this thing


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yep just tried it in-game, my gun wouldn't stop firing :d
> 
> Also the braided cable is as bad as expected - but the mouse is light as heck and glides well - plus the forward sensor position actually isn't bad. I think I may enjoy a proper functioning one but for sure the braided cable needs to go - I wouldn't have even bothered producing this mouse with that cable
> 
> So if/when I get one that works I may like it a lot!


I guess I'll just stick with Zowie then unless FinalMouse releases one with a rubber cable.
I'm not going to wait for something to happen that may never happen.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Just got mine as well, hands on for now only. Quality on my copy is solid all around . The sides of the mouse are not slippery like the TP was which is good. I really do like the aide buttons.

Package though was beat the hell up.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Ok sounds like somethings just broken. Refund via amazon or our support are good ways of going about it. Amazon would be faster if you ordered again today, otherwise we would.

So far a cpl hundred or so people have received s1's, and we are slowly getting feedback. I'll make sure to update everyone on documented issues in the first batch. So far the only reported issue we see with a few people is the one relating to firmware 1.1 affecting simul button presses in certain situations. This will affect people who use certain push to talk configs. Firmware flasher for people that encounter this will be available in the coming days.


----------



## FatalProximity

haha I'm not so upset about the lack of shipping to Canada now. 1 out of one on this forum does not seem like a promising QC%.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Ok sounds like somethings just broken. Refund via amazon or our support are good ways of going about it. Amazon would be faster if you ordered again today, otherwise we would.
> 
> So far a cpl hundred or so people have received s1's, and we are slowly getting feedback. I'll make sure to update everyone on documented issues in the first batch. So far the only reported issue we see with a few people is the one relating to firmware 1.1 affecting simul button presses in certain situations. This will affect people who use certain push to talk configs. Firmware flasher for people that encounter this will be available in the coming days.


Ok so I'm just going to wait for your support to get back to me. Thanks.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Just got mine as well, hands on for now only. Quality on my copy is solid all around . The sides of the mouse are not slippery like the TP was which is good. I really do like the aide buttons.
> 
> Package though was beat the hell up.


Your packaging being beat up is concerning. But luckily it didn't cause any damage. We had no reports of packaging damage when units arrived at warehouse on our end so I would make sure to let amazon know this happened.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I guess I'll just stick with Zowie then unless FinalMouse releases one with a rubber cable.
> I'm not going to wait for something to happen that may never happen.


Replacing/debraiding cables is really not hard if you find them bothersome. The only cable I truly hate is the one in newer Logitechs, everything else I can deal with.

And honestly some braided cables (like the Death Adder) are better than Zowie's rubber cable.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Your packaging being beat up is concerning. But luckily it didn't cause any damage. We had no reports of packaging damage when units arrived at warehouse on our end so I would make sure to let amazon know this happened.


Are you guys in Austin/San Marcos? Seems like a weird origin point for a mouse shipment.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Your packaging being beat up is concerning. But luckily it didn't cause any damage. We had no reports of packaging damage when units arrived at warehouse on our end so I would make sure to let amazon know this happened.


It's not your fault - amazon got cheap and now ship in manila folders with bubble wrap on the inside - before they use to ship in boxes always but now they want to cut shipping costs and also they want to start using their own drivers instead of usps etc

My box had a little bit of cosmetic damage on it but that's because of how it was packed


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's not your fault - amazon got cheap and now ship in manila folders with bubble wrap on the inside - before they use to ship in boxes always but now they want to cut shipping costs and also they want to start using their own drivers instead of usps etc
> 
> My box had a little bit of cosmetic damage on it but that's because of how it was packed


Your mouse was shipped in a folder?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's not your fault - amazon got cheap and now ship in manila folders with bubble wrap on the inside - before they use to ship in boxes always but now they want to cut shipping costs and also they want to start using their own drivers instead of usps etc
> 
> My box had a little bit of cosmetic damage on it but that's because of how it was packed


Never seen Amazon use a folder to ship. I have seen a simple small cardboard "wrap" as a box.


----------



## Derp

Amazon shipped my G pro in a padded envelope too.... Everything was fine but I thought that was ridiculous.


----------



## roz133

my g403 shipped all the way to india in a folder and it didnt look much like a folder by the time i got it, luckily mouse was fine


----------



## sirneb

The cheap bag might be because it shipped via 1 day shipping and that's extra expensive, saving a couple ounces makes a difference. We'll see because I ordered a second one that's coming tomorrow.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Your mouse was shipped in a folder?


Mine was as well.


----------



## whiteweazel21

They appear to ship in the manilla colored bubble wrap on inside large envelops. That's how I got mine, but mine did not have any shipping damage to contents. I had to go to work, so I only had a chance to open it and play with it for a second. I did notice a paint flaw on the rmb, the paint has what looks like a grain of sand with paint over it. Probably no sand, but I wasn't able to scratch it off. Anyway, looking forward to trying it out tonight. The RMB is much more hollow than LMB was my first impression, but switches on all mice in general seems to be a gamble depending on your copy. I didn't get a chance to put it in my desk, but just holding it it did seem like a good shape. It's a large mouse when you look at photo comparisons, but feels much smaller in the hand which is good for me.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

This seems ridiculous. I have not heard of our mouse being shipped in envelopes ever before. I am going to escalate this.


----------



## ncck

This is the envelope - all of my amazon products come in this or something cheaper now, like I said they're trying to cut back costs I think. I've had a lot of 'boxes' come very damaged because of this style of shipping - luckily the products inside are normally 'ok'

I can't say if the mouse got broken because of this - I doubt it because the box wasn't damaged enough, just looks like I got an unfortunate bad one out of the factory


----------



## whiteweazel21

I think they do this for small items now. I ordered a spare g303 last month and it came in an envelope also. But tbh for such small and light products there's probably not a big difference. Boxes can get dents, or not packaged tightly and have the contents sliding around.


----------



## reticle

Does anyone have any problems with holding left and right click at the same time? In World of Warcraft, if you hold left and right click at the same time, it moves your character forward. With this mouse, it does not work. Seems like the mouse may have been programmed that way?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> So far a cpl hundred or so people have received s1's, and we are slowly getting feedback. I'll make sure to update everyone on documented issues in the first batch. So far the only reported issue we see with a few people is the one relating to firmware 1.1 affecting simul button presses in certain situations. This will affect people who use certain push to talk configs. Firmware flasher for people that encounter this will be available in the coming days.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reticle*
> 
> Does anyone have any problems with holding left and right click at the same time? In World of Warcraft, if you hold left and right click at the same time, it moves your character forward. With this mouse, it does not work. Seems like the mouse may have been programmed that way?


He answered that above - probably the situation you're having


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reticle*
> 
> Does anyone have any problems with holding left and right click at the same time? In World of Warcraft, if you hold left and right click at the same time, it moves your character forward. With this mouse, it does not work. Seems like the mouse may have been programmed that way?


^ that would be extremely stupid


----------



## reticle

Ah okay. Thank you.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Yes thats part of the simul press bug in the current firmware. It usually effects some push to talk configurations, that situation may also be one of them. Flasher should be here very soon to upgrade you to fw 1.2


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Mine arrived in an bubble envelope too and the box is damaged on the corners however the mouse appears to be fine.

First impressions: scroll wheel rubber is slick but that could wear in (again first impression)

Mine has a sizable scratch on the bottom likely from a impact on a hard surface however its unlikely to affect glide its to the left of the "rating" stamping

there are 3 white chips in the paint but merely cosmetic

it feels very responsive in the desktop environment, cant wait to get it in game









LED thus far does not appear to be obnoxiously bright but its not dark here yet, even if it is ill just put tape over it (not a big deal)

*edit* buttons feel nice no pretravel on the side ones and the main ones are nicely light *for me*
The braiding is fantastic compared to logitechs! Much less stiff in fact mines staying airborne!


----------



## popups

Looks like they send FM products in envelopes.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It usually effects some push to talk configurations, that situation may also be one of them.


Or any situation involving m1 and m2? lol who binds comm on primary mouse buttons? Unless there are also issues with simultaneous primary and side button pressing..


----------



## RealSteelH6

There are many games where you have to hold to toogle the zoom.


----------



## popups

I don't agree with that CPI button disabling idea.


----------



## Argowashi

That blue looks way uglier in real life than I thought it would.


----------



## frunction

*Pros:*
- Nice shape, kind of Sensei/FK-like. Like the sensor position
- Flatter sides should work for any grip or hand size
- Great scroll wheel, Good side buttons
- Nice coating and grip texture

*Neutral:*
- Finalmouse logo is bright, but the scroll wheel is very dim

*Cons:*
- My LMB has the opposite problem of ncck, it's very loose and noisy. RMB is ok.
- Light leaks, can see internals through side
- Cable is stiff
- Smells weird
- May be Amazon thing, but mine also came in an envelope and was smashed.

LMB is probably a deal breaker, don't like the feel at all. Same problem I have with DM1 Pro S and was able to fix on the Revel, main button feels loose/hollow/crunchy. Speaking of which, my first impression says just save $30-$45 and just buy a Nixeus Revel, DM1 Pro S or the like. Seems to be about the same thing.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> This seems ridiculous. I have not heard of our mouse being shipped in envelopes ever before. I am going to escalate this.


Ive received a keyboard and coffee maker both shipped in their retail boxes with shipping labels on sides this year. Both Prime purchases, lol. Bubble envelope is an upgrade.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*


My scale said the Pro is 83g.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> Ive received a keyboard and coffee maker both shipped in their retail boxes with shipping labels on sides this year. Both Prime purchases, lol. Bubble envelope is an upgrade.


My Pro was in the smallest box you could possibly have. It was more like a cardboard wrap. It was the standard shipping method, not prime.


----------



## frunction

Is it weighted more towards rear?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Packages arriving in envelopes seems to be an amazon thing. I have escalated it though.

If your LMB feels different or has a bit of travel you can contact support and get a replacement. We designed the s1 to not have any, so it should feel just as good as the RMB.

It should weigh 79g on scale with wire cut near rubber housing. its 71g prewiring/assembly weight


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> - My LMB has the opposite problem of ncck, it's very loose and noisy. RMB feels ok.


Welp, I've already dealt with this too often from Motospeed and I was just about to order. FM done did it again.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The s1's injection is done in an all new factory. Most people who got the s1 as replacements to their TP's today with the issue have had perfect clicks. So if you have any pre travel on the s1 we designate it as a defective unit and replace it.

We have been seeing more reports on damaged boxes.


----------



## SEJB

So exactly the same weight as my 403 now. Expected it to be lighter honestly.

Might still get one for fun when it releases in Europe without the scream signature I guess.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

It is about 8 grams lighter. ^


----------



## SEJB

I think I trust scales over you Jude, do note that I said my 403 as well.

Does anyone have exact measurements for this since I didn't see it in the 11 page whitepaper?


----------



## Alya

So when do we get bump tests to confirm this ">1ms" of click latency?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> So when do we get bump tests to confirm this ">1ms" of click latency?


Only once Finalmouse can fabricate, err I mean test in their own facility with their own tools under 100% optimal conditions. Of course.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I just posted them in my previous post. 79g with wire cut near rubber housing.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> So exactly the same weight as my 403 now. Expected it to be lighter honestly.
> 
> Might still get one for fun when it releases in Europe without the scream signature I guess.


Hm... I wonder how they could reduce the weight more?
Oh, I know!
They could remove the braid! This would lower the overall weight of the product, reduce cord drag/friction, increase cord flexibility, and even increase profits ($$$).
What a great idea, it would sure be great if somebody implemented these changes, oh golly gee!

I mean, if you want to reduce your profit margin by paying to include a braid which worsens your product, I suppose you can do that too.
What do I know?

If only someone working at FinalMouse happened to stumble upon this post...
I mean, they might get a raise for suggesting such an awesome idea that improves their product and makes them more money.


----------



## SynergyCB

Hopefully theres a future edition with no braided cable.


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I just posted them in my previous post. 79g with wire cut near rubber housing.


Measurements, not weight. WxHxD?

Also stating something with the wire cut is kind of pointless when the actual weight is Higher.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Measurements, not weight. WxHxD?
> 
> Also stating something with the wire cut is kind of pointless when the actual weight is Higher.


Dimensions I don't remember off the top of my head









The weight was done the same as the other products you mentioned. In someones previous post they had it on a scale with a mouse that was marketed to weigh 83g, it instead shows as 86. Ours was shown as 83 on his same scale. We used the same weighing method as other manufacturers to keep it universal. So 79g is accurate.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> Only once Finalmouse can fabricate, err I mean test in their own facility with their own tools under 100% optimal conditions. Of course.


"So the bump test was actually >1ms before we added 4ms of click latency into the firmware, if you turn it down in the firmware then you will see that it is indeed >1ms."

Regardless, ordered, I'll just return it if I get a unit with something notably wrong with it and if I don't but dislike it, I'll just bite the bullet and accept the fact that I'm stupid for buying something from this company, I am super interested in that shape though.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hopefully theres a future edition with no braided cable.


Or even just different editions/variants of the same mouse, with and without braid, they can co-exist with each other.
Too bad we'll never know if this will ever happen, I guess we'll just have to give our money to Zowie or someone else confirmed to be doing this.
If only someone could help us


----------



## FinalmouseJude

There is no click latency in the firmware







There is zero debounce count on press. So that means theoretically if you press a click right after a usb frame sends a report the maximum amount of time it could take to register is .999999999999.. ms

and of course you have physical things like the switch and your finger..


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There is no click latency in the firmware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is zero debounce count on press. So that means theoretically if you press a click right after a usb frame sends a report the maximum amount of time it could take to register is .999999999999.. ms


I was just teasing you Jude, I'll bump it against my Kinzu which has 0 debounce delay and 4ms of click delay, of course the results won't be perfectly accurate because it's a bump test, but it'll give us a good idea.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> and of course you have physical things like the switch and your finger..


I was waiting for the excuses.


----------



## SEJB

Well you should probably publish them somewhere and fix your webpage. Anyone visiting via mobile is met with stacked pictures and text.

Weird that his pro is much heavier than mine tho. Ncck mind weighing your s1?


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

For reference on the same scale FK1 black and yellow original is 90g


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Measurements, not weight. WxHxD?
> 
> Also stating something with the wire cut is kind of pointless when the actual weight is Higher.


Logitech has weighted their mice with the cable cut at the stress relief.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There is no click latency in the firmware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is zero debounce count on press. So that means theoretically if you press a click right after a usb frame sends a report the maximum amount of time it could take to register is .999999999999.. ms
> 
> and of course you have physical things like the switch and your finger..


Is there any delay with simultaneous button presses? Such as clicking mouse 2 then mouse 1.


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Logitech has weighted their mice with the cable cut at the stress relief.


Well you say that but both me and inos review we have on this page has it weigh in on 84 with the cable. Is the s1 cable made out of lead and gold?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> For reference on the same scale FK1 black and yellow original is 90g


Interesting considering the fk1 weight is actually 90g. Hopefully someone else can weigh in on this matter. Pun very intended.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

whats the problem?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Well you say that but both me and inos the only review we have on this page has it weigh in on 84 with the cable. Is the s1 cable made out of lead and gold?
> 
> Interesting considering the fk1 weight is actually 90g.


It's all about how much cable you allow to weigh on the mouse/scale. The portion of cable that is inside the mouse can add 1-3g. So the cable outside could add similar weight. Sometimes when weighing a mouse I can get something like 6g difference if I let the cable pull on the mouse. The opposite applies if you lift the cable too high.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Yes thats part of the simul press bug in the current firmware. It usually effects some push to talk configurations, that situation may also be one of them. Flasher should be here very soon to upgrade you to fw 1.2


The problem seems to be resolved as soon as possible.
When is fw 1.2 available.


----------



## TestTest11

I received my mouse today and when I scroll down quickly it registers it as me scrolling up randomly - So when I am playing CS GO it begins switching to my guns when I am trying to bunny hop. This is also screwing with my web browsing experience.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TestTest11*
> 
> I received my mouse today and when I scroll down quickly it registers it as me scrolling up randomly - So when I am playing CS GO it begins switching to my guns when I am trying to bunny hop. This is also screwing with my web browsing experience.


You deserve it for still using scroll wheel to change weapons smh. For real though, that sucks.
I just opened mine. I'm a bit bummed though. My LMB is loose. I may try to fix it but is doesn't seem to affect performance in any way but It has a slight rattle when pressed.


----------



## TestTest11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> You deserve it for still using scroll wheel to change weapons smh. For real though, that sucks.
> I just opened mine. I'm a bit bummed though. My LMB is loose. I may try to fix it but is doesn't seem to affect performance in any way but It has a slight rattle when pressed.


I don't use scroll wheel to change weapons - I use 1-5, but I don't have it unbound for anything else. It's switching to weapons randomly when I am trying to bunny hop.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> You deserve it for still using scroll wheel to change weapons smh. For real though, that sucks.
> I just opened mine. I'm a bit bummed though. My LMB is loose. I may try to fix it but is doesn't seem to affect performance in any way but It has a slight rattle when pressed.


I thought about trying to fix mine, but not for $80.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If you have even minor click travel on the LMB, feel free to contact support as most units do not have any looseness. If you tap on the LMB it should not make any kind of noise or rattle.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Our support team is going to be putting aside a good chunk of stock in our own warehouse for people that have defective units, because I just learned that in the past 24 hours half the initial batch of s1's in the US were sold out. If anyone sees this that has a defective unit just make sure to contact support as Amazon stock may actually not be available later next week.


----------



## ClickTap

Do the lights turn off?
Are the dimensions the same as the final mouse tourney?


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If you have even minor click travel on the LMB, feel free to contact support as most units do not have any looseness. If you tap on the LMB it should not make any kind of noise or rattle.


I contacted support rather than returning the mouse to amazon. Are the RMAed mice tested before being shipped out as replacements?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Our support team is going to be putting aside a good chunk of stock in our own warehouse for people that have defective units, because I just learned that in the past 24 hours half the initial batch of s1's in the US were sold out. If anyone sees this that has a defective unit just make sure to contact support as Amazon stock may actually not be available later next week.


Does support need to see a video of the defect? Or do you need me to ship it back? I figured you'd need it back to see what's broken with the button


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Just mention my name and they will make sure it's minimal hassle


----------



## Maximillion

_"My name holds weight in these streets" -FinalmouseJude, 2016._


----------



## sirneb

Just a quick review after about 4 hours of gaming on the mice. G303 was my main driver and I use the fingertip grip. Notable mice that I own are G pro, G402, ec2-a, fk2, and DM1 pro s.

The top blue texture is "soft", it's one of the best mouse surface textures I've used. The mouse clicks are just fine, it's not quite as good as the G303 ever so slightly. The scroll wheel is pretty good, the click is not hard to activate like some of these newer mice. The braided cable is a problem, it's worse than the logitech mice. I can't use a mouse bungee with this thing, the cable is just too stiff. Right now, it works best just dangling about but it's annoying. The stock mouse feet glides pretty fast on my Zowie GS-R.

As far as my gaming session goes, I really like how the mouse feels. The mouse is very stable. The weight distribution is really good, the mouse stays flat the whole time. I didn't feel the mouse is going to tip. I'm still getting used to the mouse, accuracy is suffering a bit. But I like how comfortable it feels so I'm sure I'll adjust. I can't speak for the low latency clicks or sensor response, it just feels fine, no complains.

I'm not certain if S1 will become my main driver yet, but I'm pretty sure I will ditch my G pro as my secondary since so far S1 is pretty similar and it's just overall better(especially if I can replace S1's dreaded cable!). But if you are on the fence, I would definitely recommend it.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> Just a quick review after about 4 hours of gaming on the mice. G303 was my main driver and I use the fingertip grip. Notable mice that I own are G pro, G402, ec2-a, fk2, and DM1 pro s.
> 
> The top blue texture is "soft", it's one of the best mouse surface textures I've used. The mouse clicks are just fine, it's not quite as good as the G303 ever so slightly. The scroll wheel is pretty good, the click is not hard to activate like some of these newer mice. The braided cable is a problem, it's worse than the logitech mice. I can't use a mouse bungee with this thing, the cable is just too stiff. Right now, it works best just dangling about but it's annoying. The stock mouse feet glides pretty fast on my Zowie GS-R.
> 
> As far as my gaming session goes, I really like how the mouse feels. The mouse is very stable. The weight distribution is really good, the mouse stays flat the whole time. I didn't feel the mouse is going to tip. I'm still getting used to the mouse, accuracy is suffering a bit. But I like how comfortable it feels so I'm sure I'll adjust. I can't speak for the low latency clicks or sensor response, it just feels fine, no complains.
> 
> I'm not certain if S1 will become my main driver yet, but I'm pretty sure I will ditch my G pro as my secondary since so far S1 is pretty similar and it's just overall better(especially if I can replace S1's dreaded cable!). But if you are on the fence, I would definitely recommend it.


Texture is soft? I've always wondering what kind of coating this mouse is... I just assumed it was all plasticky feel all around.

Do you mean like a soft rubberized feel? Or soft plastic?


----------



## Alya

Is the braided cable thicker than the Logitech braided cables? I won't be able to use it in my bungee if it is.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Texture is soft? I've always wondering what kind of coating this mouse is... I just assumed it was all plasticky feel all around.
> 
> Do you mean like a soft rubberized feel? Or soft plastic?


I'm not sure exactly. It maybe just the texture from the paint. It does reminds me of the deathadder texture. It's definitely not plasticky like the G303 or G Pro.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Is the braided cable thicker than the Logitech braided cables? I won't be able to use it in my bungee if it is.


No, it's definitely thinner in diameter.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Is the braided cable thicker than the Logitech braided cables? I won't be able to use it in my bungee if it is.


Its like the fake deathadder cables from ebay. or like a less crap version of the cable on the original fm and the dm1 pro/s. So its not very thick at all.


----------



## ClickTap

Does the LED still stay on (like previous models) when the pc shuts down or does it finally shut off?


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

yes it stays on just found that out right now when i came back to my pc


----------



## Ihateallmice

so let's recap:

the buttons still rattle
LEDs still shine through in places it shouldn't
the cable is still absolute garbage
the weight they list is still wrong
still overpriced
LEDs can still not be turned off
oh and they're promising a new firmware like last time.

hands down my favorite thread of all time.


----------



## ClickTap

Well hey, at least we'll always have our wun taps.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> so let's recap:
> 
> the buttons still rattle
> LEDs still shine through in places it shouldn't
> the cable is still absolute garbage
> the weight they list is still wrong
> still overpriced
> LEDs can still not be turned off
> oh and they're promising a new firmware like last time.
> 
> hands down my favorite thread of all time.


Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> so let's recap:
> 
> the buttons still rattle
> LEDs still shine through in places it shouldn't
> the cable is still absolute garbage
> the weight they list is still wrong
> still overpriced
> LEDs can still not be turned off
> oh and they're promising a new firmware like last time.
> 
> hands down my favorite thread of all time.


I'll keep you updated on the status of mine - thus far mine has cosmetic defects which are miniscule and dont impact performance (the paint ones are literally pin point sized)

My buttons, wheel dont rattle but my cable does(at the protector up and down, don't feel it when mousing) holding it all down with 2 hands and shaking yields no sound and there is no lens rattle either.

Cable:
My cable stays off the mat and is far less stiff than the G pro and the FM cable isnt as thick as the gpro. This cable is better than the Gpro for me I don't get resistance from it like the G pros.
The G pro is definitely stiffer nevermind the dragging but don't misunderstand and think im saying its like a ceesa, it just doesnt get in the way of mousing it has its kinks from folding but if you give yourself proper slack it'll keep out of your way.

The light really isnt that bright but if bugs you tape it off.


----------



## chr1spe

Wait, so you can't hold m1 and m2 down at the same time from what I'm hearing? Rofl, good thing I'm not interested in this mouse since I'm mainly playing r6s recently and there is no way that would be usable.


----------



## Aventadoor

Look at that Schiit Yggdrasil tho


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> I'll keep you updated on the status of mine - thus far mine has cosmetic defects which are miniscule and dont impact performance (the paint ones are literally pin point sized)
> 
> My buttons, wheel dont rattle but my cable does(at the protector up and down, don't feel it when mousing) holding it all down with 2 hands and shaking yields no sound and there is no lens rattle either.
> 
> Cable:
> My cable stays off the mat and is far less stiff than the G pro and the FM cable isnt as thick as the gpro. This cable is better than the Gpro for me I don't get resistance from it like the G pros.
> The G pro is definitely stiffer nevermind the dragging but don't misunderstand and think im saying its like a ceesa, it just doesnt get in the way of mousing it has its kinks from folding but if you give yourself proper slack it'll keep out of your way.
> 
> The light really isnt that bright but if bugs you tape it off.


Light looks bright, maybe it's the camera.

@FinalMouseJude, if it's possible in the firmware try to decrease how bright it is, and http://www.overclock.net/t/1560198/a-small-video-about-homemade-mouse-cablesponsor with this guy.. everyone loves his cables. It would probably cost you more in labor but in return, you make the best cable on the market and people wouldn't be that mad of a small price increase for a better cable.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Light looks bright, maybe it's the camera.
> 
> @FinalMouseJude, if it's possible in the firmware try to decrease how bright it is, and http://www.overclock.net/t/1560198/a-small-video-about-homemade-mouse-cablesponsor with this guy.. everyone loves his cables. It would probably cost you more in labor but in return, you make the best cable on the market and people wouldn't be that mad of a small price increase for a better cable.


When are people going to understand that those cables almost certainly would not be allowed on an actual product. They don't have shielding which I'm fairly certain is a requirement for USB cables on actual products.


----------



## MFlow

If there is no quick firmware update for the bug this time, consumers will leave the final mouse.
The problem is that the final mouse is too slow for the firmware.
Fm does not recognize the importance of firmware. Or out of ability.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> When are people going to understand that those cables almost certainly would not be allowed on an actual product. They don't have shielding which I'm fairly certain is a requirement for USB cables on actual products.


It is, you don't get an FCC approval without shielding. So Paracord cables will always stay mods.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> I'll keep you updated on the status of mine - thus far mine has cosmetic defects which are miniscule and dont impact performance (the paint ones are literally pin point sized)
> 
> My buttons, wheel dont rattle but my cable does(at the protector up and down, don't feel it when mousing) holding it all down with 2 hands and shaking yields no sound and there is no lens rattle either.
> 
> Cable:
> My cable stays off the mat and is far less stiff than the G pro and the FM cable isnt as thick as the gpro. This cable is better than the Gpro for me I don't get resistance from it like the G pros.
> The G pro is definitely stiffer nevermind the dragging but don't misunderstand and think im saying its like a ceesa, it just doesnt get in the way of mousing it has its kinks from folding but if you give yourself proper slack it'll keep out of your way.
> 
> The light really isnt that bright but if bugs you tape it off.






So it has the same cosmetic defects like the Tournament pros as well? Excellent.

Cable rattling is new, so that's a good addition to their already feature heavy mouse.

Logitech have the worst cables I have ever used, and from my experience with finalmouse TP, theirs was very stiff (looking at your picture where the cable is straight in the air, it looks like that hasn't changed at all), but at least it wasn't logitech level bad.

Can someone explain why this mouse is being advertised for e-sport and competitive gaming when they ignore what competitive gamers actually want? I haven't come across a single e-sport CS player that prefer braided cables over something like a zowie cable or want some LED that shines through the shell in 10 different places. I mean they didn't go RGB, great, but why can't you turn off the light? The damn thing cost 80 dollars (EU prices will be fun), and you can't turn off something that shouldn't even be there in the first place. And anyone saying people should use tape to cover the logo as a solution are out of their minds.

Charging this price and still saving money on using braided cables because of a good deal is... *insert infraction worthy word here*


----------



## Aventadoor

^
Well... People buy their products either way, no matter how bad their QC is.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> 
> So it has the same cosmetic defects like the Tournament pros as well? Excellent.
> 
> Cable rattling is new, so that's a good addition to their already feature heavy mouse.
> 
> Logitech have the worst cables I have ever used, and from my experience with finalmouse TP, theirs was very stiff (looking at your picture where the cable is straight in the air, it looks like that hasn't changed at all), but at least it wasn't logitech level bad.
> 
> Can someone explain why this mouse is being advertised for e-sport and competitive gaming when they ignore what competitive gamers actually want? I haven't come across a single e-sport CS player that prefer braided cables over something like a zowie cable or want some LED that shines through the shell in 10 different places. I mean they didn't go RGB, great, but why can't you turn off the light? The damn thing cost 80 dollars (EU prices will be fun), and you can't turn off something that shouldn't even be there in the first place. And anyone saying people should use tape to cover the logo as a solution are out of their minds.
> 
> Charging this price and still saving money on using braided cables because of a good deal is... *insert infraction worthy word here*


They have no thingking but to pull it out of the customer's pocket.
Fm workers will spend the winter warm while ignoring the problems with Scream One. ?


----------



## VESPA5

Wow. It looks like a blue colored 2016 FinalMouse Tournament Pro. If it took them this long just to change the sensor and external paint and add $20 more to their price point, then I guess "they know what they're doing" -- (sarcasm). I'm sure this is going to sell like hotcakes. I already had my bad impressions of my 1 and only FM mouse (TP 2016). I don't think a blue one with a newer sensor is gonna help me shake off the horrific QC issues I've had with this company. I am looking forward to some non-biased reviews on this mouse shortly.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ClickTap*
> 
> Does the LED still stay on (like previous models) when the pc shuts down or does it finally shut off?


No that's a problem with your motherboard setting/windows setting

My PC is off and so is the mouse

Also the cable is thinner than Logitech but not as malleable as the DAE braid. To be honest the braid is the worst part it drags a lot, it can be bent to shape but the mouse resistance would be cut in half with a rubber cable


----------



## Argowashi

One person says the cable is too stiff and worse than Logitech mice. Another person says the cable is not stiff and better than Logitech mice.

lol


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> One person says the cable is too stiff and worse than Logitech mice. Another person says the cable is not stiff and better than Logitech mice.
> 
> lol


Solution to your problem: Pick the side where most people say the same thing. people here pay money for the mouse and give impressions, so I doubt most people would lie or get it wrong on pupose. I'm pretty sure 90-99% will say there's no cable on a mouse that's worse than what Logitech offers. With that said, it doesn't mean that the TP cable isn't stiff or haven't got the exact same issues every braided cable has compared to a regular rubber cable.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> Solution to your problem: Pick the side where most people say the same thing. people here pay money for the mouse and give impressions, so I doubt most people would lie or get it wrong on pupose. I'm pretty sure 90-99% will say there's no cable on a mouse that's worse than what Logitech offers. With that said, it doesn't mean that the TP cable isn't stiff or haven't got the exact same issues every braided cable has compared to a regular rubber cable.


Really? I'd say the worst cable I've ever seen were on the Kana or the Sensei. I mean braided is never good, but it didn't seem to me like Logitech were the worst, just not good.
But seeing that I found the G Pro cable an improvement over the G303 contrary to others I might be a minority.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Really? I'd say the worst cable I've ever seen were on the Kana or the Sensei. I mean braided is never good, but it didn't seem to me like Logitech were the worst, just not good.
> But seeing that I found the G Pro cable an improvement over the G303 contrary to others I might be a minority.


No you're definitely not alone, I thought the G303 braided cable was one of the worst in existence. Completely unusable. At least the G900 cable, G403 cable and G Pro cable is usable.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Measurements, not weight. WxHxD?
> 
> Also stating something with the wire cut is kind of pointless when the actual weight is Higher.


126x68x39


----------



## wareya

the actual weight is literally always higher than with the wire cut off

they measure the weight with the wire cut off because that's the right way to measure mouse weight. no other measurement is reliable or accurate. no, they're not going to stick a bungie next to the scale and hook the cord through it, that's stupid. what do you expect them to do? ask a crystal ball what to do with the part of the cable weight that's external to the mouse?

you have reasons to criticize them but don't criticize them for literally doing the right thing


----------



## SEJB

You realize FM has a history of stating incorrect weights right?
That picture also shows a fairly big discrepancy from the stated and the measured.


----------



## wareya

yes, I do

if you want to construct an argument about them making up weights, you have to construct an argument about them making up weights, not measuring it in a "weird" way


----------



## ncck

Hello *****,

We are very sorry to hear that! This is the first of this issue we have experienced. Please proceed with the return/replacement process through Amazon as this is the fastest course of action!

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Finalmouse Support

*** lol


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> ...


Did you...did you mention that Amazon will only give you a refund and you were sent by Jude? Make sure to mention you were sent by Jude. /s


----------



## TestTest11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Hello *****,
> 
> We are very sorry to hear that! This is the first of this issue we have experienced. Please proceed with the return/replacement process through Amazon as this is the fastest course of action!
> 
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support
> 
> *** lol


Here is the response I received regarding my scroll wheel issue. I guess I will return it for a full refund instead and not bother with a replacement.

*Hello ****,

This is the first issue of its kind that we have experienced with the Scream1. We recommend proceeding with a return through Amazon and moving forward with a replacement!

Thanks,
Finalmouse Support*


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Hello *****,
> 
> We are very sorry to hear that! This is the first of this issue we have experienced. Please proceed with the return/replacement process through Amazon as this is the fastest course of action!
> 
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support
> 
> *** lol


lol please follow up and let us know how that goes for you. Have you mentioned that Jude sent you?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> lol please follow up and let us know how that goes for you. Have you mentioned that Jude sent you?


Yes I did

This is how I feel rn: https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ExcitedPheasantPermaSmug


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yes I did
> 
> This is how I feel rn: https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ExcitedPheasantPermaSmug


https://oddshot.tv/shot/UzozAdkYzAdFeIiLd6tVlgiZ

Why?! How!? Support is playing against me! Support, you're plants. You're actual plants.


----------



## a_ak57

I've criticized FM a lot about their weight listings on the other mice (which they still have not corrected), but I have no issue with them saying the S1 is 79g with the cord cut off. I'm pretty sure that's how Zowie and Logitech get their listed weights and probably other companies too. All that actually matters is them measuring the weight in a way that's consistent or close to consistent with other manufacturers. They say 79g with cord cut off and that guy's scale says 83g with it attached and adding a bit of weight, which is fine because his measurement for the G Pro is 86g while Logitech lists it at 83g.


----------



## Maximillion

Some quick inital impressions:

It does indeed come in an envelope (lol) but my box was in pretty good shape.
My unit doesn't have any noticeable physical defects/blemishes.
M1/M2 feel balanced and clicks feel good overall.
Side buttons are decent, but I couldn't use them in-game the way I hold it.
Still enjoy the shape (had a TP) but for large hands it's most natural in fingertip imo.
Weight is decent, but doesn't feel any lighter than DM1 Pro S/Revel in-hand.
I like the scroll wheel steps and light M3 click.
Don't mind the blue color (looks quite good tbh).
Sig is completely flush w/ surface. Still think It'd look more sleek w/o it but w/e.
Cable is fine in my bungee (Galeru). The stiffness actually works because it hovers a bit...
...but a paracord would still be ideal.
There is a rattle when shaking it.
Feet glide well on cloth, are louder/scratchier than other mice on hard surfaces.
I'll be doing some testing etc today, but basically, there's nothing "dealbreaking" out of the box at least. Nothing to really call home about either. Other than the proclaimed "technical tweaks" I don't see much here as standout from the 336X ambi bunch, esp considering the price. I came in with no expectations and honestly its weird to even have one sitting on my desk thinking back to all the talk over...months. I'm pretty much gonna retire from the mouse game anyway. I'm no longer "looking" for something that works, I have several options that do. It's just vague curiosity at this point.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I have told support to take further action. If you received an email , email back or wait for new response .


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> One person says the cable is too stiff and worse than Logitech mice. Another person says the cable is not stiff and better than Logitech mice.
> 
> lol


well in my case you guys can see how my cable is, its off the mat doesnt affect mousing whatsoever. Its stiff in that it holds its shape and not touch the pad but not stiff to make mousing hard. Gpro is more floppy and weighs down the mouse on the pad affecting glide and also bunches up creating spring tension when i mouse towards the Yggdrasil where as the FM the cable jut deflects upward without tension because it holds its shape.
FM specifically angles its cord upwards too which further helps keep it off the pad.
GPro more malleable sure but not in a good way in this case or at least my case. Refer to my pictures.

If you want further illustration let me know


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> One person says the cable is too stiff and worse than Logitech mice. Another person says the cable is not stiff and better than Logitech mice.
> 
> lol


My Logitech Pro didn't have a horrible cable. If I debraided the cable it would have been decent. The cable had a slight resistance to bending, but it didn't push the mouse around.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> well in my case you guys can see how my cable is, its off the mat doesnt affect mousing whatsoever. Its stiff in that it holds its shape and not touch the pad but not stiff to make mousing hard. Gpro is more floppy and weighs down the mouse on the pad affecting glide and also bunches up creating spring tension when i mouse towards the Yggdrasil where as the FM the cable jut deflects upward without tension because it holds its shape.
> FM specifically angles its cord upwards too which further helps keep it off the pad.
> GPro more malleable sure but not in a good way in this case or at least my case. Refer to my pictures.
> 
> If you want further illustration let me know


I don't like very stiff cables as they tend to push the mouse. I don't use a bungee because I don't want the cable to be weighing on the mouse (as the cable is in the air). I like the cable to be mostly on the table so I don't notice the extra weight, but that can't be done with braided cables. Seems like braided cables caused mouse bungees to exist.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Some quick inital impressions:
> 
> It does indeed come in an envelope (lol) but my box was in pretty good shape.
> My unit doesn't have any noticeable physical defects/blemishes.
> M1/M2 feel balanced and clicks feel good overall.
> Side buttons are decent, but I couldn't use them in-game the way I hold it.
> Still enjoy the shape (had a TP) but for large hands it's most natural in fingertip imo.
> Weight is decent, but doesn't feel any lighter than DM1 Pro S/Revel in-hand.
> I like the scroll wheel steps and light M3 click.
> Don't mind the blue color (looks quite good tbh).
> Sig is completely flush w/ surface. Still think It'd look more sleek w/o it but w/e.
> Cable is fine in my bungee (Galeru). The stiffness actually works because it hovers a bit...
> ...but a paracord would still be ideal.
> There is a rattle when shaking it.
> Feet glide well on cloth, are louder/scratchier than other mice on hard surfaces.
> I'll be doing some testing etc today, but basically, there's nothing "dealbreaking" out of the box at least. Nothing to really call home about either. Other than the proclaimed "technical tweaks" I don't see much here as standout from the 336X ambi bunch, esp considering the price. I came in with no expectations and honestly its weird to even have one sitting on my desk thinking back to all the talk over...months. I'm pretty much gonna retire from the mouse game anyway. I'm no longer "looking" for something that works, I have several options that do. It's just vague curiosity at this point.


Does your copy have the notorious 'ghosting' issue? It won't be a dealbreaker for me since I have my RMB set to "click to ADS" in most games, but for people who like to hold down the RMB to aim while tapping LMB, this might be a huge problem.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Does your copy have the notorious 'ghosting' issue? It won't be a dealbreaker for me since I have my RMB set to "click to ADS" in most games, but for people who like to hold down the RMB to aim while tapping LMB, this might be a huge problem.


Pretty sure every current copy has that problem because it's a firmware issue, not a physical issue.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Pretty sure every current copy has that problem because it's a firmware issue, not a physical issue.


Yea I encountered this too in Overwatch playing Widowmaker. I'm guessing it might be the firmware since you press RMB and can left-click for a shot within milliseconds. But I left click after right-clicking very closely together, the LMB switch gets depressed but no shot fired. So you need to let go and press it again which by that point it's a bit too late lol.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Yea I encountered this too in Overwatch playing Widowmaker. I'm guessing it might be the firmware since you press RMB and can left-click for a shot within milliseconds. But I left click after right-clicking very closely together, the LMB switch gets depressed but no shot fired. So you need to let go and press it again which by that point it's a bit too late lol.


Little worried about that since I'm a 3300 McCree/Tracer/Widow main, so I end up right clicking and left clicking directly after a lot with Tracer to blink and fire, or to quickscope and fire with WIdow.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We are testing our flasher as we speak to make sure it functions correctly and doesn't brick your mouse







. If you want the ghosting bug fixed support should have the revision later this weekend or early next week


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Little worried about that since I'm a 3300 McCree/Tracer/Widow main, so I end up right clicking and left clicking directly after a lot with Tracer to blink and fire, or to quickscope and fire with WIdow.


It doesn't happen that often, although for some reason it happened like 3 times in 1 game, and after that I noticed what was going on. Since I'm not really going for 12dmg shots often, but I'm guessing this is a firmware thing and will be patched soon. I think you can still get those 12dmg shots off, but there needs to be a few more ms between clicks which isn't optimal. Basically, if you get perfect timing on the clicks for a 12dmg scoped shot it will glitch. Otherwise I haven't encountered any other problems, and the tracking does feel pretty smooth especially on the desktop for whatever reason, maybe it's my mind playing tricks.

But it's interesting, from the pics I thought the mouse was going to be like the ergo in terms of shape more or less just without the side-grip. But the Scream is much lower, more comfortable, and allows for more finger-play (lol). It really looks like a big mouse, but it holds like a much smaller mouse. It is a pretty nice shape I got to say, and it's nice they actually modified it from version to version.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We are testing our flasher as we speak to make sure it functions correctly and doesn't brick your mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If you want the ghosting bug fixed support should have the revision later this weekend or early next week


Awesome news Jude, my FM comes between the 9th and the 12th, so I hope it's done by then, don't make me regret this purchase Jude...I never liked FM because of their past but I'm giving you guys a chance.


----------



## kevinnz

Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


the 1st fix with firmware but for the second???


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

I just had the scrolling bug that other dude mentioned, first time too I'll see if i can repeat it

*edit* im fairly certain its because of me and the not so tactile* texture of the mouse wheel when i brought my finger backwards to push forward again it likely brushed the wheel


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


+1

Same exact situation here. Replicated it and I just no scope headshot'd Bot Perry in csgo using the new meta. Also can't shoot with MMB depressed.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

what was the second ? Can not view video at the moment


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

hes slamming the mouse down actuating the mouse buttons making his gun fire in game without clicking.
and holding down middle mouse preventing firing with m1


----------



## wareya

Why do we use such light mouse switches.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

That would probly take less force on hard pad or thinner cloth pads.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*


Thanks for sharing this. Good grief, and I thought the switches on my G403 were too light. Wow. Just wow.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Ok. Well every unit will have slightly varied switch sensitivity. Impossible for any mouse to be completely uniform. If the switches are more sensitive, and have less travel tolerance it may actuate if you place the mouse down with force. In normal usage it should not accidentally actuate.

Ive taken a hard look at this batches switches and click travel, and they are all well within a very good defect range. Majority are right where they should be. If yours is not optimal a replacement is the only course of action.

Over a thousand s1's in peoples hands and hardware issues seem to be very minimal so statistically its looking good as we figured. Ghosting issue is a bit rampant atm with so many people playing games like h1z1. But we will have the flasher for that ready very soon.

Mouse wheel actuating accidentally is purely encoder related. This encoder has had instances of this since as far back as I remember. Only way to eliminate it is to use a more tactile encoder which does not feel as good to many.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Ok thanks for the gif. Seems to be a bit sensitive on that unit but honestly not by much. If you take a perfectly optimal unit and slam it down a bit harder I'm sure it would actuate like that as well. Its the nature of the design. If it ever actuates accidentally in normal competitive gameplay thats when you know its a defective unit.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Honestly i dont think the slamming is a big issue (happens on many mice). The simultaneously pressing of M1/M2/M3 is a much bigger flaw.

Does it has something to do with the low click latency?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Ok thanks for the gif. Seems to be a bit sensitive on that unit but honestly not by much. If you take a perfectly optimal unit and slam it down a bit harder I'm sure it would actuate like that as well. Its the nature of the design. If it ever actuates accidentally in normal competitive gameplay thats when you know its a defective unit.


I dunno about that. I just tried that same test using the 3 mice I have at my desk and not even my DA:Elite (that has the lightest clicks of the ones you see here) can actuate like that even after slamming it. If I slam it any harder, I might break these beloved mice.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> Honestly i dont think the slamming a big issue (happens on many mice). The simultaneously pressing of M1 and M2 is a much bigger flaw.


I would agree with this stance whole heartedly. Every minute that goes by that our flasher is not ready for folks is not a happy minute 









There is a way to update firmware without flasher but we don't want people opening up their brand new s1's obviously.


----------



## zackowns

The one i just received has an extremely loose sensor i can hear when moving the mouse so disappointing....


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Thanks for sharing this. Good grief, and I thought the switches on my G403 were too light. Wow. Just wow.


Habu could do that. Very poor build quality + the worst qc ever seen in a Razer product.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> Honestly i dont think the slamming is a big issue (happens on many mice). The simultaneously pressing of M1/M2/M3 is a much bigger flaw.
> 
> Does it has something to do with the low click latency?


Uhhh no. If it happens on a mouse, that mouse should be returned. It is not normal.

It has nothing to do with the click latency. It's just bad qc.


----------



## trism

This is the reason why I don't understand the "zero debounce latency prior to click accept" bs. One-two ms would prevent this completely from happening and one would almost literally _never_ miss a shot because of that. Obviously this is not always required but then you have to have a stiffer shell or switches from the mid-high end of the tolerance range for the actuation force requirement. Not that it really matters since no one should slam the mouse that hard on the table anyways in a normal situation.

How on earth are you reading and processing the pin states if the mouse can't register two clicks at the same time?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We don't use a single mold on the top shell like those designs. Its a give and take. Independent piece for the clickers will naturally have more weight on the plunger because the force is not being absorbed throughout the entire body, its a more independently moving mechanism.

As long as it doesn't happen in normal gaming I would not be worried.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Looking good so far lol


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Registering simul clicks bug has nothing to do with the "pin states". Its just a small code change to how the reporting is done. We will have the firmware flasher for this, its simply a small modification to the firmware.

But it is definitely NOT intended. It is a bug, and we have been aware of it for one week or so.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Debounce count has nothing to do with slamming the mouse and getting an accidental actuation.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


I disagree with the "glitch prevention feature" for this very reason. There is no need to use code to disable the CPI button during use. The CPI button isn't even that easy to press on accident. I don't have any trouble pressing the much more high profile CPI button on the Logitech mice.

If you slam a mouse with light switches and no pre travel on the table it will actuate the switch. That's physics... Nothing wrong with this. Just don't drop/slam your mouse on the table.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Why do we use such light mouse switches.


Because Huano suck. Worst switch in the world. Chinese Omrons da best.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*


TBH, I wish my copy was more like that. Light clicks are nice, don't pick up and slam the mouse while gaming = problem solved. I wonder if I need to RMA for lighter clicks...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> TBH, I wish my copy was more like that. Light clicks are nice, don't pick up and slam the mouse while gaming = problem solved. I wonder if I need to RMA for lighter clicks...


You'll be playing the lotto when it comes to Chinese Omrons. Don't waste your time. You are better off buying a bunch of switches, sorting through the ones you want and soldering them yourself.


----------



## trhead

Don't slam your mouse, its not how you play games anyway. This is trolling Jude at this point. Nice agenda guys


----------



## wareya

are you being sarcastic


----------



## trhead

No


----------



## Aventadoor

Hard to get an idea of how hard he slams the mice down in that video, but I often "slam" my mice down when I lift it. My mousepad is very stiff aswell.
I see this as a huge con. Not to mention how it will affect the clicks over time. I've never had a mouse which shoots when u slam it down.


----------



## Maximillion

It's all fun and games until someone blows their teammates head off trying to turn around in the Grand Finals.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> It's all fun and games until someone blows their teammates head off trying to turn around in the Grand Finals.


Did Scream do that?


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zackowns*
> 
> The one i just received has an extremely loose sensor i can hear when moving the mouse so disappointing....


make sure its the sensor and not the cable proctetor because on my the cable protector rattles upward and downward but when i hold all the buttons mouse wheel and protector and shake no sound. Have you confirmed it in MS paint?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Don't slam your mouse, its not how you play games anyway. This is trolling Jude at this point. Nice agenda guys


Mine was broken but did the same thing, and no I didn't slam it - if I picked it up and placed it down fast it would fire, but I just associated it with my LMB being broken - if it happens to non-broken buttons then yeah it can be a problem


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Did Scream do that?


It was a theoretical example.

As far as ppl saying "don't slam your mouse"...no one would slam their mouse in-game on purpose (unless epic rage, lul) but I for example do 180 flicks by cocking my hand to the left then swiping til I'm slightly past my point of origin (this very technique is how I can easily tune my sens in any environment). The mentioned action does sometimes result in a "slam" in heated moments.

Also, pretty sure my rattle is the lens not the "cable protector".

Also, I just put the mouse to my ear and it's making a white noise-like sound lmao.


----------



## wareya

>Also, I just put the mouse to my ear and it's making a white noise-like sound lmao.

It's very very bad if you can hear the processing noise of a _mouse_ of all things. That's a serious concern to the quality of the mouse to me.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Also, I just put the mouse to my ear and it's making a white noise-like sound lmao.


Why would you want to do that? The old MX518 also did that.


----------



## wareya

I was quoting the user above me


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Never assume lens rattle without paint test. Heres another guys method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPg4PGP2ChI


----------



## FinalmouseJude

When I put my s1 closely enough to my ear I can make out component frequency noises. Very hard to make out. The impedance of the pcb is actually of very high quality, and the traces are all very good. We made sure it passed all the difficult electrical compliance tests. Every electrical product with high frequency components are going to make noise. Sometimes this effect is increased if something is touching something it shouldn't be.

So far in the past day I have heard how the mouse smells, and sounds. Will taste be next?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> So far in the past day I have heard how the mouse smells, and sounds. Will taste be next?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Seriously...not one bump test so far..


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Seriously...not one bump test so far..


"S1 seems to be ~2ms faster than G Pro." - Maximillion, after I asked him in steam chat to do a *bump* test, 2016.


----------



## equlix

Support seems to have gotten the memo from Jude. That or Jude broke out the thorned whip on the support team. They already responded to my request and have my replacement on the way.


----------



## b0z0

I'm scared to order a Scream One. My second Tourn Pro within a month and it has issues with the rmb


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> Video of switches being activated without clicking on the switch.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k


Beautiful.


----------



## Ickz

Just opened mine minutes ago.

- Suffers from clicking while hitting the mouse down like in that video. Not entirely sure if that will actually be an issue in real gameplay, but we'll see.
- LMB doesn't do anything while holding down M3. Something like this should never happen.
- Main buttons feel ok. Very stiff/huano-like - so personal preference there. Mine felt pretty symmetrical.
- M3 takes a decent amount of force to depress - not as bad as the first models of G Pro. Still feels useable.
- Scroll feels ok, I guess. Notches are not very pronounced. However, the big issue is the rubber material it's coated in. It's very slippery and actually makes scrolling feel more difficult then it should be.
- Side buttons are fine.
- Shape felt fine to me. Personal preference, obviously.
- Looks super cringy and I'm embarrassed to have it on my desk. Ugh @ "pro gamer" signed products.

Probably going to return due to the misclick and m3/lmb issue.

The newer batches of GPros with the lighter M3 switch are better, imo (assuming you can get one with symmetrical main buttons).


----------



## espgodson

welp i use mouse3 for voip in a lot of games so looks like i wont be getting this =o


----------



## TestTest11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I have told support to take further action. If you received an email , email back or wait for new response .


Thank you. I have a replacement on the way now.


----------



## shaiaz

I really hope mine is gonna be ok. coincidently my vacation in New York is when this mouse is getting released but I am not staying too long so I REALLY hope my envelope will be ok. Wish me luck please, will report back about the quality


----------



## Bucake

what's with all the complaints about irrelevent stuff. the only important thing is whether you get more one taps?


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> what's with all the complaints about irrelevent stuff. the only important thing is whether you get more one taps?


Agreed


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> what's with all the complaints about irrelevent stuff. the only important thing is whether you get more one taps?


Yes... Yes... Those 1 taps.


----------



## savagebunny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yes... Yes... Those 1 taps.


Yes, wun teps
https://gfycat.com/MetallicAcidicCollardlizard


----------



## Bucake

0 taps? that's some next level stuff. maybe finalmouse are on to something after all


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yes... Yes... Those 1 taps.


dem wunz, y0


----------



## Fluxify




----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yes... Yes... Those 1 taps.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbA8GeoBic


This is *the only* video review of a mouse I will *ever* not regret watching.


Spoiler: Disclosure



what this guy did is what I did for an hour with a Razer Habu that did the exact click slam thing. So I'm pretty sure that's why I liked the video so much.



also lol at the other video review from mr. goony beardman


----------



## Bucake

fastest respons super cable best mouse i have used al mice subscribe plz
and to think that people listen to this kind of people

at least he admitted he can't really test sensors or button responsiveness


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*


Best video I've ever seen.


----------



## Ickz

Lol I feel like web browsing it difficult with this mouse because of the slippery scroll wheel. The material is just so bad.


----------



## Crazy9000

I removed the braiding from the cable and it seemed to be working alright for the ~1 hour of overwatch I tried. I can get the buttons to go off if I slam the mouse on purpose, but I can't get them to accidentally go off in gameplay.


----------



## popups

At least they can flash firmware now (so they say).


----------



## aayman_farzand

Does MB1 work with either of the side buttons are pressed? One of those is my crouch button in CSGO :|


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yes... Yes... Those 1 taps.


That's actually a hilarious video!


----------



## RealSteelH6

^ new level of one taps


----------



## xlltt

Ok well i guess ill need to buy a more sturdy desk for this mouse


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Does MB1 work with either of the side buttons are pressed? One of those is my crouch button in CSGO :|


Considering from the video popup posted rmb and lmb don't even work correctly together I would assume you can't use any 2 buttons at the same time. Idk how bugs like these make it past the first day of actual testing let alone months of "fine tuning"


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Considering from the video popup posted rmb and lmb don't even work correctly together I would assume you can't use any 2 buttons at the same time. Idk how bugs like these make it past the first day of actual testing let alone months of "fine tuning"


Well I could see it getting past 'testing' if the only people using it are competitive fps players - many of whom would never be pressing two mouse buttons at the same time specifically in counter-strike

A lot of things get past 'testing' but once it gets out to public new things are found out - same with games


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well I could see it getting past 'testing' if the only people using it are competitive fps players - many of whom would never be pressing two mouse buttons at the same time specifically in counter-strike


"Specifically", more like only in CS.


----------



## Jonagold

One thing holding me back from buying this mouse that seems otherwise perfect for me is the low LOD, I have tendency to pick up mouse sometimes while aiming and if the lift-off-distance is too low it would mess up my aiming.. How it compares to DM1 Pro S for example? I had to remove mousefeet from my DM1 Pro S in order to use it properly..


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well I could see it getting past 'testing' if the only people using it are competitive fps players - many of whom would never be pressing two mouse buttons at the same time specifically in counter-strike
> 
> A lot of things get past 'testing' but once it gets out to public new things are found out - same with games


You forget that you can throw nades using both buttons for medium range throws. Anyone who plays cs at any level use both buttons at the same time sometimes


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> You forget that you can throw nades using both buttons for medium range throws. Anyone who plays cs at any level use both buttons at the same time sometimes


I don't know for sure, but I feel like it could also cause odd behavior when quick scoping with an awp. I usually fire before letting go off m2 in a quickscope. I guess it would just cause a double scope right as you shot or something in that case which wouldn't be a big problem, but I'm not really sure. Really the only time I can see this not being noticable is DMing rifles in CS. Outside of that it would become evident quite quickly I would think not to mention that it would be immediately obvious with quite a few characters in overwatch, playing H1Z1 for 30 second, playing BF1 for 30 seconds, or many other popular games. Those aren't really competitive except maybe overwatch, but I mean do you really only test a mouse in CS:GO and not even very well. Idk about the average player, but I probably try to both click throw a nade at least once a pug.


----------



## SEJB

My point exactly. That something like this got through any testing is incredibly weird. Pressing two buttons at once on a mouse is a very standard thing in most games.


----------



## popups

Imagine if you the mouse didn't allow you to flash the firmware. Probably would have sank FM if they went full Zowie style.


----------



## readeh

Received the mouse a few hours ago and I don't have the click problem you guys do.. Did I get a new firmware version? It does have some noise when shaking it, which isn't from scroll wheel and not from buttons either.
I find the clicks harder to click than my EC1 as in more stiff which surprised me a lot. Still need to test it out more and find where the rattle comes from as the smallest shake will make a tick noises.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Received the mouse a few hours ago and I don't have the click problem you guys do.. Did I get a new firmware version? It does have some noise when shaking it, which isn't from scroll wheel and not from buttons either.
> I find the clicks harder to click than my EC1 as in more stiff which surprised me a lot. Still need to test it out more and find where the rattle comes from as the smallest shake will make a tick noises.


How hard is the Mouse3 to click compared to a Deathadder?


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Received the mouse a few hours ago and I don't have the click problem you guys do.. Did I get a new firmware version? It does have some noise when shaking it, which isn't from scroll wheel and not from buttons either.
> I find the clicks harder to click than my EC1 as in more stiff which surprised me a lot. Still need to test it out more and find where the rattle comes from as the smallest shake will make a tick noises.


Does it fire if you tap it?


----------



## readeh

Don't have a DA. Mouse3 has the same resistance as my EC1, but I honestly never use mouse3 for anything and don't know why anyone would for gaming. Scroll wheel is really smooth though.

Maybe Jude can clear it up if a new firmware has been released?

RealSteelH6 - Yes it does, but I have to do it really hard. It won't be a problem for me and I doubt it will be a problem for anybody else. Mine has quite a bit of resistance on M1/M2 so perhaps other people will have to slam it down with less force to make it go off, but I find it highly unlikely than anybody will slam a mouse down so hard.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Don't have a DA. Mouse3 has the same resistance as my EC1, but I honestly never use mouse3 for anything and don't know why anyone would for gaming. Scroll wheel is really smooth though.
> 
> Maybe Jude can clear it up if a new firmware has been released?
> 
> RealSteelH6 - Yes it does, but I have to do it really hard. It won't be a problem for me and I doubt it will be a problem for anybody else. Mine has quite a bit of resistance on M1/M2 so perhaps other people will have to slam it down with less force to make it go off, but I find it highly unlikely than anybody will slam a mouse down so hard.


Mouse3/4 are very common for push to talk.

I don't have to slam my mouse really to get the button to go off, just hold the end and kind of drop it down without adding force. However, it seems to be just enough that it'll never go off in gaming normally.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Mouse3/4 are very common for push to talk.
> 
> I don't have to slam my mouse really to get the button to go off, just hold the end and kind of drop it down without adding force. However, it seems to be just enough that it'll never go off in gaming normally.


Mine went off during normal gaming and I don't slam the mouse


----------



## sarkarlos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Does MB1 work with either of the side buttons are pressed? One of those is my crouch button in CSGO :|


Tried it out for you. In short, M1 registers while holding M4/M5 (side buttons) but M4/M5 will stop registering until you let go of M1.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Mouse3/4 are very common for push to talk.
> 
> I don't have to slam my mouse really to get the button to go off, just hold the end and kind of drop it down without adding force. However, it seems to be just enough that it'll never go off in gaming normally.


I guess that is true.
I just tried and I can't make it shoot unless I hammer it down hard, so perhaps I got "lucky" with my hard switches.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sarkarlos*
> 
> Tried it out for you. In short, M1 registers while holding M4/M5 (side buttons) but M4/M5 will stop registering until you let go of M1.


Just tried and I have the same problem. It isn't too bad with the way I have my keys configured, but that really needs a fix fast.


----------



## sarkarlos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Just tried and I have the same problem. It isn't too bad with the way I have my keys configured, but that really needs a fix fast.


Hopefully the firmware update is able to sort it out. Unfortunately, it won't do anything about buttons activated from beating it black and blue (color scheme pun? maybe). The only way it really affects my config is medium nade throws.


----------



## end0rphine

These sort of problems are fairly ridiculous in the most expensive wired mouse on the market.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sarkarlos*
> 
> Hopefully the firmware update is able to sort it out. Unfortunately, it won't do anything about buttons activated from beating it black and blue (color scheme pun? maybe). The only way it really affects my config is medium nade throws.


Yeah let's hope. Went from a EC1A1 to FM S1 and it feels a lot smoother, perhaps it's the 1000hz, but will test it on a 240/270hz monitor the coming days to see if I can tell a even bigger difference.

The rattle inside the mouse is driving me nuts. Can't move the mouse without it ticking constantly.


----------



## sarkarlos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Yeah let's hope. Went from a EC1A1 to FM S1 and it feels a lot smoother, perhaps it's the 1000hz, but will test it on a 240/270hz monitor the coming days to see if I can tell a even bigger difference.
> 
> The rattle inside the mouse is driving me nuts. Can't move the mouse without it ticking constantly.


If it's the sensor then I'd personally return it for a replacement. Here's a way you can test for sensor rattle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPg4PGP2ChI


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> These sort of problems are fairly ridiculous in the most expensive wired mouse on the market.


*cough* razer *cough*


----------



## arcrox

I hope it doesn't take much longer to get the firmware patch out. It would behoove FM to rush out a hotfix ASAP, since they're at a critical juncture with their long-awaited mouse being freshly released and 100% of units affected. Button malfunctions make many games unplayable and completely ruin first impressions for everyone doing reviews.

Overall though, I'm happy with my unit. The build quality is good and I have no rattling issues; it feels very good in hand and is very responsive. Clicks are a bit stiffer than I'd like (I'm spoiled by the Logitech click tensioning system from the G Pro/G403/G303), the braided cable is _very_ stiff (much more so than Logitech cables), and I have the "left-click-firing-when-mouse-is-slammed" issue, but it's not something I'd ever run into during normal usage.

None of these issues are deal breakers for me, but the non-responsive M4/M5 when I'm pressing M1/M2 absolutely is.


----------



## SynergyCB

Anyone try their Scream One on a Zowie G-SR mousepad? Wondering how well it glides because certain mice seem to glide poorly on the G-SR.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Anyone try their Scream One on a Zowie G-SR mousepad? Wondering how well it glides because certain mice seem to glide poorly on the G-SR.


Mine is fine. I have about 9 hours on it in game and no snags or stalls.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xlltt*
> 
> *cough* razer *cough*


WRT Deathadder - most comparable
*Cheaper
*Doesn't have issues with multiple button presses
*Better cable
*Doesn't have issue with button press on mouse set down
*can turn off LED
*has software support
-Synapse
-Latency(?)
-Weight (probably due to finalmouse using clips or filaments to fixate PCB: cause of mouse set down problem?)


----------



## gunit2004

Can someone help me understand something.

How is a mouse out for so long (it has been in the hands of some players in proto form for a while now, no?)

The mouse gets delayed for an eternity, claiming that they want it to be perfect as a reason for the delays.

It comes out, and has tons of fairly simple issues that were overlooked? The whole not being able to shoot when certain buttons are pressed. How can this be overlooked when it has been tested for a while? Did these players testing it not come across these issues?

Just mind boggling.

I've never owned a Finalmouse and just reading all this stuff over the months, maybe I shouldn't even bother checking them out. This thread has just been pure comedy.


----------



## jajablacksheep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Can someone help me understand something.
> 
> How is a mouse out for so long (it has been in the hands of some players in proto form for a while now, no?)
> 
> The mouse gets delayed for an eternity, claiming that they want it to be perfect as a reason for the delays.
> 
> It comes out, and has tons of fairly simple issues that were overlooked? The whole not being able to shoot when certain buttons are pressed. How can this be overlooked when it has been tested for a while? Did these players testing it not come across these issues?
> 
> Just mind boggling.
> 
> I've never owned a Finalmouse and just reading all this stuff over the months, maybe I shouldn't even bother checking them out. This thread has just been pure comedy.


It's pretty simple actually. Jude realized how desperate people are for the perfect mouse and spent all of FMs money on marketing and shills. No R&D necessary for shilling.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Can someone help me understand something.
> 
> How is a mouse out for so long (it has been in the hands of some players in proto form for a while now, no?)
> 
> The mouse gets delayed for an eternity, claiming that they want it to be perfect as a reason for the delays.
> 
> It comes out, and has tons of fairly simple issues that were overlooked? The whole not being able to shoot when certain buttons are pressed. How can this be overlooked when it has been tested for a while? Did these players testing it not come across these issues?
> 
> Just mind boggling.
> 
> I've never owned a Finalmouse and just reading all this stuff over the months, maybe I shouldn't even bother checking them out. This thread has just been pure comedy.


For me 3 reasons. 1: their release timing is right along with other companies 3360 releases more or less so I don't mind that too much. 2: the shape is right for me. 3: meme mice are best mice.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Can someone help me understand something.
> 
> How is a mouse out for so long (it has been in the hands of some players in proto form for a while now, no?)
> 
> The mouse gets delayed for an eternity, claiming that they want it to be perfect as a reason for the delays.
> 
> It comes out, and has tons of fairly simple issues that were overlooked? The whole not being able to shoot when certain buttons are pressed. How can this be overlooked when it has been tested for a while? Did these players testing it not come across these issues?
> 
> Just mind boggling.
> 
> I've never owned a Finalmouse and just reading all this stuff over the months, maybe I shouldn't even bother checking them out. This thread has just been pure comedy.


I wouldn't doubt that they were told that certain issue would be fixed. Then it's suddenly released and lo and behold it's not fixed. Which if that were the case then it's on the testers to not white knight and publically state these issues ahead of time. But they probably feared rocking the boat and not getting another free crappy $15 mouse marked up to $80.

and yes this thread is comedy.


----------



## tunelover

I changed the thread's name to Finalmouse Scream One now that the mouse is released


----------



## Fluxify

Decent review of the mouse...


----------



## PBaF

I have been lurking here for a long time.

Got to say this is absolutely hilarious. FM, just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.


----------



## M1st

What's really hilarious is that FM gets any attention after all the issues with their mice. I mean really, when something like fnatic trash or hori edge is released people just go and forget about it next day. But FM is still discussed. Apparently marketing works. Even on those who think that they're immune to it.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> What's really hilarious is that FM gets any attention after all the issues with their mice. I mean really, when something like fnatic trash or hori edge is released people just go and forget about it next day. But FM is still discussed. Apparently marketing works. Even on those who think that they're immune to it.


But my E-Sports!? Everyone said that buying a Finalmouse will finally make me go pro and get on a team?!


----------



## trism

After this bug is fixed, I'd guess it is a pretty decent mouse.

I'd buy one just for the shape. It seems like just the shape I've been waiting for. FK2 with a wider butt. However I'm not paying ~$130.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> What's really hilarious is that FM gets any attention after all the issues with their mice. I mean really, when something like fnatic trash or hori edge is released people just go and forget about it next day. But FM is still discussed. Apparently marketing works. Even on those who think that they're immune to it.


I love my hori edge


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I love my hori edge


I wasn't implying that it's a bad mouse. I meant that whatever mouse is released, unless it's from already well-known brand (at least in mousing department), it gets no attention (DM might be an exception and example how to make a mouse startup properly). However FM just created a following by means of marketing.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I wasn't implying that it's a bad mouse. I meant that whatever mouse is released, unless it's from already well-known brand (at least in mousing department), it gets no attention (DM might be an exception and example how to make a mouse startup properly). However FM just created a following by means of marketing.


Nixeus also has had quite a few people talking about their mouse. If I were to buy a mouse from one of these companies that are newer to making mice that would probably be the one, but all these mice are too big for me. Nixeus actually offers their mouse at a somewhat reasonable price and has already shown they are actively fixing issues with their mice by offering replacement feet and updated firmware with no mcu smoothing reasonably quickly.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I wasn't implying that it's a bad mouse. I meant that whatever mouse is released, unless it's from already well-known brand (at least in mousing department), it gets no attention (DM might be an exception and example how to make a mouse startup properly). However FM just created a following by means of marketing.


How exactly is DM _better_? They are as ODM as this business could ever go. Scream One is an in-house product (at least seems to be), based on the PCB design, MCU, shape and the whitepaper. You people are trashing a company that is _actually trying_ while praising the n+1 100% ODM companies. I don't like a lot of what Jude says because a lot of it is quite ignorant, I think S1 is overpriced and yes, the bug should've been noticed before the release but saying that a 100% ODM-using company is better is just...

Also:

> We fine-tuned the PCB so there will be the least delay possible. In addition, we completely reorganized it to better optimize the transistors and circuits.

wat









DM1 PRO S seems to have a flaw in the cable design and the shell is just outright horrible (squeaky and the M1 seems to get stuck to the other lower shell). So in my humble opinion they aren't any better.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

_at least seems to be_


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> How exactly is DM _better_? They are as ODM as this business could ever go. Scream One is an in-house product (at least seems to be), based on the PCB design, MCU, shape and the whitepaper. You people are trashing a company that is _actually trying_ while praising the n+1 100% ODM companies. I don't like a lot of what Jude says because a lot of it is quite ignorant, I think S1 is overpriced and yes, the bug should've been noticed before the release but saying that a 100% ODM-using company is better is just...
> 
> Also:
> 
> > We fine-tuned the PCB so there will be the least delay possible. In addition, we completely reorganized it to better optimize the transistors and circuits.
> 
> wat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DM1 PRO S seems to have a flaw in the cable design and the shell is just outright horrible (squeaky and the M1 seems to get stuck to the other lower shell). So in my humble opinion they aren't any better.


Not too sure about the in-house thing


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Not too sure about the in-house thing


What company is that?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> What company is that?


Meetion.net

Chinese odm


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Meetion.net
> 
> Chinese odm


Odd. Can't find it from their site? Doesn't even look like their mouse when comparing it to the other ones. TBH the S1 (/TP) looks like the Motospeed mouse, just a tiny bit edited and changed from ergo to ambi. Also one or two of Meetion's shapes seem to not even be their own, so an ODM using other ODM's shapes?

I stand corrected though if it is not their shape. Then the price can't really be justified and a question rises if they really even coded the firmware themselves either. However, obviously they are going to use a factory specialized to mouse manufacturing to manufacture the mouse, that shouldn't be news to anyone.


----------



## samxkim

Been using the scream one for a day or so, and I don't think it's worth the price honestly.... When you tap it, the mouse registers clicks for some reason?!?!? The LOD is literally the highest I've seen from a 3360 mouse and it feels really cheap. The clicks are stiffer than the Logitech mice that I have and feel a bit wobbly. The LED lights are on even though the computer is off (I have never seen this issue on any other mice, only FInalmouse) There is no way of changing LOD and polling rate (Even zowie has this feature, cmon) I actually like the braided cable in this compared to the G403 and G Pro, as it's not as thick. The mouse wheel feels really great to actuate and actually like that aspect. Overall, I think people should pass on this mouse unless you have money to shell.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samxkim*
> 
> Been using the scream one for a day or so, and I don't think it's worth the price honestly....


You don't say, what did you expect from this company. I don't feel bad for the people that are having issues with the mouse, you knew better.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Odd. Can't find it from their site? Doesn't even look like their mouse when comparing it to the other ones. TBH the S1 (/TP) looks like the Motospeed mouse, just a tiny bit edited and changed from ergo to ambi. Also one or two of Meetion's shapes seem to not even be their own, so an ODM using other ODM's shapes?
> 
> I stand corrected though if it is not their shape. Then the price can't really be justified and a question rises if they really even coded the firmware themselves either. However, obviously they are going to use a factory specialized to mouse manufacturing to manufacture the mouse, that shouldn't be news to anyone.


Well their site is useless. For example the red square mice are made by them, but their shells aren't on the site. Also, the wheel on the final mouse does look like regular motospeed mice. Maybe it's a case if 1 Chinese of copying another. It's China after all.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I like how that site used our product photography and photoshopped their logo on the mouse


----------



## SmashTV

I suppose it would have more acceptable if they slapped a sticker over the logo.


----------



## Alya

Got my S1, first thing I noticed when I opened the box...tape was missing on the bottom, indicating it was either taped incorrectly or entered before it arrived to my house, everything came intact though and it feels like there's no problematic defects as far as I've seen, the cable is stiff ilk, but the actual clicks are pretty even, the scroll wheel feels pretty good and it's not louder when going in one direction and not the other, shape reminds me of an enlarged Kinzu. I don't mind it so far to be fair. There's a ledge on the right side that dips over the top part of the shell though, and when I'm resting my ring finger on the right side it sort of rubs against it, sort of an annoyance. LoD is pretty high at about 2CDs.

Here's an xCount plot of me hitting about 3.5m/s at 400 CPI, since I haven't seen one of these yet.



And another, about 3.5m/s once again.


----------



## Argowashi

Since more and more people are getting theirs can we get some click tests going and verify Finalmouse's/Jude's claim of it being the fastest ever?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I like how that site used our product photography and photoshopped their logo on the mouse


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I suppose it would have more acceptable if they slapped a sticker over the logo.


LOL REKT


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Never forget


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> saying that a 100% ODM-using company is better is just...


Tbh i don't really care at all whether they're ODM or not.

As for things that matter - let's assume quality is the same, DM released their S faster, their mice are cheaper. Touche, imho.

I'd have no problems with FM if their mice were either higher quality or cheaper.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Tbh i don't really care at all whether they're ODM or not.
> 
> As for things that matter - let's assume quality is the same, DM released their S faster, their mice are cheaper. Touche, imho.
> 
> I'd have no problems with FM if their mice were either higher quality or cheaper.


Why does it matter when the product goes to the market? I'd rather have 10000 decent quality ODM mice than just a few "premium" manufacturers. Shape is still different which is the most important factor.

Agree on the price though, can't say anything about quality because I don't own the S1.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Why does it matter when the product goes to the market? I'd rather have 10000 decent quality ODM mice than just a few "premium" manufacturers. Shape is still different which is the most important factor.
> 
> Agree on the price though, can't say anything about quality because I don't own the S1.


Well... it doesnt matter now that it's out. But before it was out it did matter.

I actually like the shape of S1 aside from indents on m1 and m2, and that's the reason why quality issues are even more annoying.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samxkim*
> 
> Been using the scream one for a day or so, and I don't think it's worth the price honestly.... When you tap it, the mouse registers clicks for some reason?!?!? The LOD is literally the highest I've seen from a 3360 mouse and it feels really cheap. The clicks are stiffer than the Logitech mice that I have and feel a bit wobbly. The LED lights are on even though the computer is off (I have never seen this issue on any other mice, only FInalmouse) There is no way of changing LOD and polling rate (Even zowie has this feature, cmon) I actually like the braided cable in this compared to the G403 and G Pro, as it's not as thick. The mouse wheel feels really great to actuate and actually like that aspect. Overall, I think people should pass on this mouse unless you have money to shell.


It shouldn't do that with normal game play and I haven't experienced it doing it while playing a few hours. The LOD is the same as my Zowie EC1A1 so had no problem with the transition and within 2 hours I could frag as much as normally, but was actually more confident in my aim with the S1. Now that doesn't have to be because of the Finalmouse S1, perhaps it's just the 3360 sensor, but the shape really works for me. I don't think it feels cheaper than other mice and I must admit I like the material on top (no idea what it's made of). My clicks are pretty stiff as well, but nothing I'm not use to with the EC1. The LED light thing is probably about your bios settings and not the mouse it self. My old MSIE 3.0 did the same thing, but could change it in bios.
I agree that changing the polling rate and LOD should be possible with a mouse that cost 80 bucks and hopefully Finalmouse is coming out with some software/firmware that makes it possible? I have no idea, but I hope so.
I can't really compare this to the G403 as I don't have it yet (Ordered it for my home in Europe, but in the states right now) $80 is a lot of money and the G403 will eventually drop in price while I guess the FM S1 will pretty much stay at the same price so it would be hard to recommend with the price difference. I like the FM S1 besides the few flaws the mouse has which probably will make me send it back(the rattle is making me go nuts when using it during normal use). I still need to test if it's sensor rattle and will do that later today.


----------



## Fluxify

Anyone know a lightweight mouse with a good sensor, fast clicks, and a easy to press middle mouse button? Coming from a Deathadder which is my first mouse.


----------



## shaiaz

Initial impressions from me, it's pretty good. can't properly test since I am on vacation but so far it feels 'cheap' but not as if it's gonna break. Clicks are fine, cable isn't too stiff but maybe the bundled part is bad, like Alvy said. Will report back again when I have actually tried it







!


----------



## gene-z

Never laughed so hard at a mouse review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbA8GeoBic


----------



## Hunched

They talk about my zero taps


----------



## john88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Never laughed so hard at a mouse review:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbA8GeoBic


Thanks for sharing, made my day LOL.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## john88

ONE SLAMS!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Never laughed so hard at a mouse review:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtW0cEMj7k
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTbA8GeoBic


I'd be very pissed if I were killed by slam mouse.

We need a new competition genre, CS:GO slam mouse.


----------



## kashim

for you guys the "slam" bug it is solvable with firmware or we need to wait a fixed version of the mouse?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> for you guys the "slam" bug it is solvable with firmware or we need to wait a fixed version of the mouse?


Depends on whether you think some code is going to prevent the switch from being physically pressed.


----------



## arcrox

mfw they spend a year making a mouse with my name on it that can't press multiple buttons simultaneously and clicks when it's slammed


----------



## jsx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> How exactly is DM _better_? They are as ODM as this business could ever go. Scream One is an in-house product (at least seems to be), based on the PCB design, MCU, shape and the whitepaper. You people are trashing a company that is _actually trying_ while praising the n+1 100% ODM companies.


Maybe they should actually source a proper ID firm instead of relying on a low quality manufacture? You say they're trying, but theres legit no effort to compete with the bigger companies lol.

I mean they certainly charge enough and seem to do fine milking multiple communities. Hype is real.


----------



## suneatshours86

this is embarassing.
what a **** device, really.


----------



## penskuzzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> mfw they spend a year making a mouse with my name on it that can't press multiple buttons simultaneously and clicks when it's slammed


That is why this mouse is called ONE, wun tapz at de time!


----------



## Shogoki

The worst thing is they delayed the release so much, you'd be righteously expecting a finely tuned mouse, but no.
The mouse slamming was fun. The inability to press M3 and M1 at the same time, a bit less; You don't even find those kind of flaws in a ten years old Logitech office mouse.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Maybe they should actually source a proper ID firm instead of relying on a low quality manufacture? You say they're trying, but theres legit no effort to compete with the bigger companies lol.
> 
> I mean they certainly charge enough and seem to do fine milking multiple communities. Hype is real.


I would like to think that as an iterative process. This market is so saturated that you have to start somewhere. I know *you* have issues with companies using ODMs completely, but I don't. I don't have any problems with these companies (except for the usual bull**** their reps are touting). My point was to argue that a company which *supposedly* did at least *some* work on the mouse (than to just give the specs and logo they want) is not worse than a company which doesn't really do anything but use a 100% Sensei copy shell. Now if that was all bull****, then my point is not valid. I'd like to give a benefit of a doubt though even though I disagree on a lot of things the rep says. I agree on the price though, it is too much. Also your point is quite odd; I would argue a 'high quality manufacturer' would cost a lot more for a company that doesn't have a solid ground to stand on yet and have a lot higher risk. This isn't only for FM.

I am not hyped if you meant that. The only thing I was stupidly hyped for was the G Pro which was an utter disappointment for me if one can feel that way about physical products.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> for you guys the "slam" bug it is solvable with firmware or we need to wait a fixed version of the mouse?


Lol, that is hardware problem. If they were ever release 'firmware' to fix that, most probably you wouldn't even able to use left click anymore.

Except the mouse has gyro or whatever sensor to detect z-axis motion. Now that is high level mouse stuff.


----------



## Jonagold

Who the heck slams mice while playing, doesn't seem like a habit of a good aimer.. That multiple-button-press problem will be solved with firmware update. Sensitive mouse requires sensitive user, not a jump around slam everywhere user.. There are some Zowie mice that will keep you one step behind and you can slam them as much as you want..

If they fix that multiple-button-press problem I will be buying this when they are shipping to EU..

Waiting for click latency and sensor latency tests to be done..


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Who the heck slams mice while playing, doesn't seem like a habit of a good aimer.. That multiple-button-press problem will be solved with firmware update. Sensitive mouse requires sensitive user, not a jump around slam everywhere user.. There are some Zowie mice that will keep you one step behind and you can slam them as much as you want..
> 
> If they fix that multiple-button-press problem I will be buying this when they are shipping to EU..
> 
> Waiting for click latency and sensor latency tests to be done..


Like I said it doesn't need to be 'slammed' for it to actuate - on my broken LMB version if I just picked up the mouse and put it back on the pad after a fast swipe it would fire - anyway after support ignoring me I just returned it - I'll try FM again in the distant future


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I would like to think that as an iterative process. This market is so saturated that you have to start somewhere. I know *you* have issues with companies using ODMs completely, but I don't. I don't have any problems with these companies (except for the usual bull**** their reps are touting). My point was to argue that a company which *supposedly* did at least *some* work on the mouse (than to just give the specs and logo they want) is not worse than a company which doesn't really do anything but use a 100% Sensei copy shell.


I think DM and Nixeus used the Sensei shape simply because they could and because there was a long time demand for "a Sensei with a good sensor". FM started with a copy of the Imperator and now have changed to a new design after initial success. Who says that DM or Nixeus won't do the same in the near future?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> mfw they spend a year making a mouse with my name on it that can't press multiple buttons simultaneously and clicks when it's slammed


This is pretty sad considering that the company delayed this mouse for so long. The more than 1 button being pressed issue should've been a GLARING concern but it wasn't so they released the mouse anyway? Who tested this final design for "FinalMouse"? smh


----------



## Nivity

How can this multiple button pressing thing even go through QC from the start?
Do they have zero beta testers inhouse even.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I think DM and Nixeus used the Sensei shape simply because they could and because there was a long time demand for "a Sensei with a good sensor". FM started with a copy of the Imperator and now have changed to a new design after initial success. Who says that DM or Nixeus won't do the same in the near future?


I worded it a bit wrong; I don't have problems with them doing the Sensei clone. And I think a step like this is quite necessary if not mandatory nowadays if you want to/have to start from scratch. My point originally was to argue against a point of how one company _currently_ doing less is somehow better than the one that (supposedly!) did more. Price obviously is way too high but then again, there's a proverb in my language which goes something like "stupid is the one who pays, not the one who asks".


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I worded it a bit wrong; I don't have problems with them doing the Sensei clone. And I think a step like this is quite necessary if not mandatory nowadays if you want to/have to start from scratch. My point originally was to argue against a point of how one company _currently_ doing less is somehow better than the one that (supposedly!) did more. Price obviously is way too high but then again, there's a proverb in my language which goes something like "stupid is the one who pays, not the one who asks".


Well IMO better price, less hype, and seemingly trying to help people and improve issues on the forum makes them at least more relatable if not better. When someone tries to over hype something and then overcharge for it, it feels cheap and scuzzy. When someone offers a decent, but not amazing product at a fairly reasonable price it feels like they are being honest about the fact that it isn't some top tier groundbreaking product.


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well IMO better price, less hype, and seemingly trying to help people and improve issues on the forum makes them at least more relatable if not better. When someone tries to over hype something and then overcharge for it, it feels cheap and scuzzy. When someone offers a decent, but not amazing product at a fairly reasonable price it feels like they are being honest about the fact that it isn't some top tier groundbreaking product.


scuzzy? it's scummy brah


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> scuzzy? it's scummy brah


They are almost synonyms http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scuzzy it is a word.


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> They are almost synonyms http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scuzzy it is a word.


Sorry what I meant to say was: cheap and scuzzy? it's downright scummy
Excuse the brevity.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> "stupid is the one who pays, not the one who asks".


That proverb is very true imo, it's also why I don't criticize a lot of mice for their price, I just don't buy them.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> My point originally was to argue against a point of how one company _currently_ doing less is somehow better than the one that (supposedly!) did more.


Excuse me, but i can only talk about the end result of what they have or haven't done. Praising someone just for the effort is not a good practice imho.


----------



## Bucake

effort is okay to be praised, but of course you shouldn't praise the product based on the effort put into it alone. and regarding what FM do themselves, well i can't take jude his word for it, i just don't trust him. not that i really care to what extend he's truthful, because that mouse just doesn't seem worthy of its pricetag


----------



## ronal

I think its time the community file a class action lawsuit against this company, this is rediciolous.


----------



## xmr1

Honestly the decision and ability to partner with ScreaM was genius. They can basically do whatever they want and charge whatever they want and as long as ScreaM uses it there will be plenty of buyers.

I don't mean to grab my pitchfork and join the mob since I appreciate Finalmouse at least putting some effort into tuning performance, but all that time spent and the $80 release product has button ghosting issues and the build quality of a Happy Meal toy?


----------



## hammelgammler

I really need that mouse, it seems like the perfect shape for me what I was waiting for!

If there's someone in Europe who doesn't like his, I would happily throw my money at you.


----------



## Crazy9000

Kind of sad that the main thing people are focusing on is the buttons going off when you slam the mouse, which is a non-issue in most cases. If it doesn't fire accidentally during gameplay, then it doesn't matter if a button goes off when you slam the mouse on purpose.

There's plenty of other stuff to focus on







.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Kind of sad


Don't worry, I'll cheer you up then. It's already been stated that it doesn't require slamming the mouse down.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> If there's someone in Europe who doesn't like his, I would happily throw my money at you.


How's 150€ + 50€ in shipping sound? Obviously this mouse is a work of art and I don't want to let it go for a cheap price.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Don't worry, I'll cheer you up then. It's already been stated that it doesn't require slamming the mouse down.


I have one, and it's not possible to accidentally click during gameplay. You don't have to "slam" super hard, but you do have to do it heavier than is reasonable to expect while playing. It's possible some people got lighter buttons, but it's not sounding like that is normal at all.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Honestly the decision and ability to partner with ScreaM was genius.


well i don't mean to belittle their decision, but it seems kind of obvious to use a pro who has a particular legend ("one taps") and a lot of fanboys. but on the sellout-scale it's 10000% from FM, so rip company's integrity. they already had very little of it, though..


----------



## FinalmouseJude

People should be getting emails to fix ghosting very soon.

As for the slamming. I have checked this first hand. No s1 ever accidentally actuated during normal gameplay unless LMB was defective or broken. HOwever, If you purposely pick up the mouse and slam it on the surface it will actuate. I can reproduce this with any tournament pro or s1. The lightweight design of the top shell + independent clicker housing will do this, just the physics of the buttons.

This slam thing seems to be a complete non-issue. And support will not be accommodating complaints for it. If you do not like that it actuates when slammed you can return the mouse.

Support will however immediately assist anyone that has a broken or defective switch.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I think its time the community file a class action lawsuit against this company, this is rediciolous.


Hahaha and sue them for what ?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> People should be getting emails to fix ghosting very soon.
> 
> As for the slamming. I have checked this first hand. No s1 ever accidentally actuated during normal gameplay unless LMB was defective or broken. HOwever, If you purposely pick up the mouse and slam it on the surface it will actuate. I can reproduce this with any tournament pro or s1. The lightweight design of the top shell + independent clicker housing will do this, just the physics of the buttons.
> 
> This slam thing seems to be a complete non-issue. And support will not be accommodating complaints for it. If you do not like that it actuates when slammed you can return the mouse.
> 
> Support will however immediately assist anyone that has a broken or defective switch.


How common is lens rattle? My unit's is pretty bad, I hear it every single time I move the mouse at any speed (and others I've spoken to have confirmed they have it as well, albeit possibly not as severe). This doesn't seem to affect performance, just wondering if I got "unlucky" or if it's a design flaw by you guys.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> People should be getting emails to fix ghosting very soon.


Is that just going out to all the Amazon e-mail addresses?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> How common is lens rattle? My unit's is pretty bad, I hear it every single time I move the mouse at any speed (and others I've spoken to have confirmed they have it as well, albeit possibly not as severe). This doesn't seem to affect performance, just wondering if I got "unlucky" or if it's a design flaw by you guys.


Wouldn't it affect performance if it really was lens rattle? It's probably something else rattling.


----------



## miranavoo

can someone test the LoD on zowie GSR please?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miranavoo*
> 
> can someone test the LoD on zowie GSR please?


Pretty sure that some people confirmed it to be very high, around 2 CDs in height.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Wouldn't it affect performance if it really was lens rattle? It's probably something else rattling.


It doesn't appear to be any of the buttons. Initially I thought it was perpahs the DPI switch. But I checked that and all other buttons (and cord). The sound is coming from the lower part of the mouse. I can only assume lens.

...then again, the mouse literally emits processing noise so who knows what could be going on in there.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Ok so for rattle and LOD :

1. We have LOD at the default 2mm low. It's a tad higher than other mice due to the lens being closer to surface. We followed the specs to keep the squal optimal. That being said it should not be over 2cds, and LOD is lower than TP and classic ergo. There have been 1-2 reports of unusually high LOD , we still aren't sure if this is mousepad related or defective lens.

2. I have seen a few users report a "rattle" that is coming from inside the mouse. I have found one unit in the batch here with me that has this also. It seems to be uncommon. To be honest I'm not sure exactly what this is yet , we are looking into it. There are no signs it is lens rattle, and it doesn't seem to effect anything. But we are trying to isolate it at the moment.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> To be honest I'm not sure exactly what this is yet , we are looking into it. There are no signs it is sensor rattle, and it doesn't seem to effect anything. But we are trying to isolate it at the moment.


Well, at least that makes sense. I really want to open this thing up to replace the atrocious cable anyway, but I'm unsure if I'll be able to isolate/fix whatever's causing the rattle. Dunno if a return is worth the hassle since I usually have headphones on anyway (not to mention I'm otherwise satisfied w/ my unit).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Ok so for rattle and LOD :
> 
> 1. We have LOD at the default 2mm low. It's a tad higher than other mice due to the lens being closer to surface. We followed the specs to keep the squal optimal. That being said it should not be over 2cds, and LOD is lower than TP and classic ergo. There have been 1-2 reports of unusually high LOD , we still aren't sure if this is mousepad related or defective lens.
> 
> 2. I have seen a few users report a "rattle" that is coming from inside the mouse. I have found one unit in the batch here with me that has this also. It seems to be uncommon. To be honest I'm not sure exactly what this is yet , we are looking into it. There are no signs it is lens rattle, and it doesn't seem to effect anything. But we are trying to isolate it at the moment.


My mouse has a rattle as well if I shake it.

It's possible something is coming lose during shipping, especially with the minimal packaging from Amazon. That would give you guys less mice showing it in house, while more showing it to the end user.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

My QC batch is from Amazon as well. Almost all the units were perfect but then again we did not get them in envelopes. It may just be some injection tolerance somewhere. A hair of a millimeter can make a difference with certain things. We are looking into it.

Honestly I've been very pleased with the hardware quality of the s1 so far just looking at the statistics compared to TP.

We have seen little click travel, no light bleed through shell coating, no side button issues, little to no wheel issues.

Once people begin testing performance of s1 and seeing how well it performs in benchmarks the TP will be retired quite frankly. And with retailers getting their hands on the new s1 editions the price will become very competitive very fast.


----------



## Alya

I do have shell bleed but it's not through the coating, just through the side of the mouse and up near the wheel, I don't have any really notable QC issues but my LMB rattles a bit when pressed on by my finger and there's some type of rattle inside of the mouse even when holding every button down. I played some BF4 last night though, and I couldn't ADS and fire at the same time, it'd just randomly scope in and scope out, I had to enable toggle ADS, hope the new firmware that is supposed to come out to fix it comes soon.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Kind of sad that the main thing people are focusing on is the buttons going off when you slam the mouse, which is a non-issue in most cases. If it doesn't fire accidentally during gameplay, then it doesn't matter if a button goes off when you slam the mouse on purpose.
> 
> There's plenty of other stuff to focus on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Doesn't require slamming. Same thing happened on the G402 which is why the times were increased slightly to compensate.

Stuff like that will happen.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> People should be getting emails to fix ghosting very soon.
> 
> As for the slamming. I have checked this first hand. No s1 ever accidentally actuated during normal gameplay unless LMB was defective or broken. HOwever, If you purposelyup the mouse and slam it on the surface it will actuate. I can reproduce this with any tournament pro or s1. The lightweight design of the top shell + independent clicker housing will do this, just the physics of the buttons.
> 
> This slam thing seems to be a complete non-issue. And support will not be accommodating complaints for it. If you do not like that it actuates when slammed you can return the mouse.
> 
> Support will however immediately assist anyone that has a broken or defective switch.


That's one way to discourage would-be buyers. Claim there isn't an issue cause you can't reproduce it, and then publicly state the customers that are having this issue without slamming, won't be granted a warranty claim. Ouch! Damage control lies that overrun customer claims. So glad I didn't fall for the hype and buy this clunker. Steering clear of your products.


----------



## Hunched

Zowie has it right.
Imagine how hard you would have to slam an EC2-A for it to click, you'd probably break your hand.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Zowie has it right.
> Imagine how hard you would have to slam an EC2-A for it to click, you'd probably break your hand.


The funny part is, he is claiming like smacking a mouse on your pad is some abnormal thing to do. I don't even play at a low DPI and constantly smack my mouse against the pad in fast action that requires quick pickup and resets. It's impossible for me not to do unless I focus on not going as fast as possible and instead focusing on being careful. And I pay at 1000DPI. People at lowers DPIs require even more movement that would make this problem even worse.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> The funny part is, he is claiming like smacking a mouse on your pad is some abnormal thing to do. I don't even play at a low DPI and constantly smack my mouse against the pad in fast action that requires quick pickup and resets. It's impossible for me not to do unless I focus on not going as fast as possible and instead focusing on being careful. And I pay at 1000DPI. People at lowers DPIs require even more movement that would make this problem even worse.


That kind of action doesn't cause it to click though. I tried putting the mouse down heavily while playing, and the click does not go off.

Mine actuates similar to the one in the youtube video posted earlier, where you have to hold the end for leverage, or slam it on purpose. Even heavy handed gaming doesn't seem to be enough to get it to go off. So far the only account I've heard of one going of with a lighter touch was someone who had a broken button anyways.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If someone has their button actuate during normal gameplay, support will accommodate this as it is a defect. We have in the ball park of 20 pro cs players on either a new TP batch or S1 that all play on low sens and have never reported this issue. We have also double checked recently ourselves.

You are right it does not take a "Hard" Slam to actuate. But it requires a purposeful slamming motion onto a hard surface. We did not find it to actuate in any normal gaming environment. Regardless of sensitivity.

If you are someone that does forcefully place the mouse down onto a surface to the point of actuating the S1 or TP, then these mice are not meant for you!


----------



## gene-z

Should worry more about replying to your customers than addressing criticism from me:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Like I said it doesn't need to be 'slammed' for it to actuate - on my broken LMB version if I just picked up the mouse and put it back on the pad after a fast swipe it would fire - anyway after support ignoring me I just returned it - I'll try FM again in the distant future


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Doesn't require slamming. Same thing happened on the G402 which is why the times were increased slightly to compensate.
> 
> Stuff like that will happen.


Didn't a few people here say it was a non issue with their mice? I don't have one to verify and I won't buy one. I assume it is simply down to having a ~45g switch and no pre travel or shell resistance.

I think I had a few mice that did the same thing. Not sure it it was one of my modified mice or a Logitech mouse.

If you have a 85g mouse, that has switches that actuate with 45g of force, a button piece that applies tension to the switch or doesn't have any resistance and pre travel, how hard do you have to slam it for the button to actuate?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Didn't a few people here say it was a non issue with their mice? I don't have one to verify and I won't buy one.


Non-issue on my copy, 400 CPI 57.1cm/360 on CS:GO, no problems here, also tried at 43.4cm/360 on OW and BF4.


----------



## Fluxify

How is the Middle Mouse Button compared to the Razer Deathadder Chroma? Is it easier or harder to press?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Didn't a few people here say it was a non issue with their mice?


The slam click is definitely blown out of proportion, it's a bit nitpicky. I have never experienced an issue after over 20 hours of gaming with it, I play pretty low sensitivity that requires lifting the mouse and putting it back down quite a bit.

While the ghosting issue hasn't affected my play style, I definitely liked it fixed sooner than later. Jude had already acknowledged that it is in the works, so I'm not concerned. Honestly S1 is a great mouse and I grew to love it as it's becoming my main driver. People who are distracted by these issues are missing out on a great mouse.
Quote:


> How is the Middle Mouse Button compared to the Razer Deathadder Chroma? Is it easier or harder to press?


I would say it's harder but not by much.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> The slam click is definitely blown out of proportion, it's a bit nitpicky.


You are aware that this is one of the most expensive wired mice on the market, right?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Well the Mad Catz RAT 8(3360) is $99 and that's wired. So I guess there's that. Steelseries Rival 500/700 too. Sadly, those don't have esports firmware for esport athletics tournament pro's since you are able to press certain buttons at the same time.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> That's one way to discourage would-be buyers. Claim there isn't an issue cause you can't reproduce it, and then publicly state the customers that are having this issue without slamming, won't be granted a warranty claim.


He never said that customers having auto actuation without slamming wont be helped out by support, that was just about customers whose mice clicks actuate on slamming. That was pretty clear in the comment. If this doesn't affect most people in actual gaming scenarios then the one or two people that it does affect should probably buy some other mouse. No sense in altering the 0 pre travel or the light clicks or any of the other design elements to accommodate a few slammers ..

While it's true that there are a few things you'd want to bash FM about, this thread is now full of unnecessary bashing.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> He never said that customers having auto actuation without slamming wont be helped out by support, that was just about customers whose mice clicks actuate on slamming. That was pretty clear in the comment. If this doesn't affect most people in actual gaming scenarios then the one or two people that it does affect should probably buy some other mouse. No sense in altering the 0 pre travel or the light clicks or any of the other design elements to accommodate a few slammers ..
> 
> While it's true that there are a few things you'd want to bash FM about, this thread is now full of unnecessary bashing.


Well it could also be that some people are getting mice with lighter buttons than others as that is pretty common with mice that don't have high button resistance apparently. It could be that some mice are way more prone to the problem during normal use than others, but without testing a ton of them its hard to know.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well it could also be that some people are getting mice with lighter buttons than others as that is pretty common with mice that don't have high button resistance apparently. It could be that some mice are way more prone to the problem during normal use than others, but without testing a ton of them its hard to know.


Most probably yes, some mice could have the same problem even in normal use without any other signs of defect coz of the minimal shell resistance and whatever variance there might be in the switches. With the earlier post I just wanted to point out that auto actuation without the slamming would actually not be ignored by support as gene-z said.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Should worry more about replying to your customers than addressing criticism from me:


So in your opinion it is good to use a *broken* mouse as an example? They (ncck) stated several times the lmb is broken and pressed down by default, something which isn't normal and can be dealt via support.

So far I haven't seen anyone else claiming it doesn't require slamming.


----------



## ncck

I've seen my name tossed around - just want to clarify

My LMB was 100% broken, in a perma-pressed down state basically. So if I lifted my mouse and put it back down during normal gaming it would fire off - or the button would fire non-stop because it got stuck. I contacted support and got told to return to amazon - then jude followed up and said to re-contact support but I went and refunded it instead so I no longer own the mouse

I can't say that with a non-broken mouse that it would fire off as easily during normal usage.. ok so hope that clears up anything


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> While the ghosting issue hasn't affected my play style, I *definitely liked it fixed sooner than later. Jude had already acknowledged that it is in the works, so I'm not concerned*. Honestly S1 is a great mouse and I grew to love it as it's becoming my main driver. People who are distracted by these issues are missing out on a great mouse.
> I would say it's harder but not by much.


I think you've clearly misunderstood how FM works if you think saying something is in the works means it is coming.


----------



## Alya

If the firmware fix doesn't come this week then I'm throwing the ScreamOne into a box until it does, don't really want to do that because I like the shape but I will if I have to, can't play BF4 w/o being able to click both mouse buttons at the same time, unless you use "click button" for ADS, you must be a commie if you do.


----------



## badben25

At 4:55 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8

he mentions something has been done to prevent accidental clicks. Maybe this and/or how it's done is the cause of the button pressing issues?

Also, click latency please.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> At 4:55 in this video:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMNykVSORq8
> 
> he mentions something has been done to prevent accidental clicks. Maybe this and/or how it's done is the cause of the button pressing issues?
> 
> Also, click latency please.


He's referring to the DPI button though. Think the DPI click code is affecting the M3 switch press?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Didn't a few people here say it was a non issue with their mice?


To some it's a non issue. Same around G402 times. I'd still want it fixed if I were product lead though. Which is what Logitech ended up doing through firmware.

Looks like FM won't do the same. Sucks for the lifters as you definitely don't need a slam to trigger it.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> To some it's a non issue. Same around G402 times. I'd still want it fixed if I were product lead though. Which is what Logitech ended up doing through firmware.
> 
> Looks like FM won't do the same. Sucks for the lifters as you definitely don't need a slam to trigger it.


I'm very big on mouse lifting when I play CS:GO and it hasn't happened to me, but that can be a mixture of switch variance, shell stiffness and what not.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> To some it's a non issue. Same around G402 times. I'd still want it fixed if I were product lead though. Which is what Logitech ended up doing through firmware.
> 
> Looks like FM won't do the same. Sucks for the lifters as you definitely don't need a slam to trigger it.


I wouldn't want it to be "fixed" through firmware.

I honestly don't think it's an issue, but I don't have a Scream One.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I'm very big on mouse lifting when I play CS:GO and it hasn't happened to me, but that can be a mixture of switch variance, shell stiffness and what not.


Likewise, I too never had a problem on my G402 before the firmware fixes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I wouldn't want it to be "fixed" through firmware.
> 
> I honestly don't think it's an issue, but I don't have a Scream One.


As an enthusiast of course not. As someone involved in creating the device I wouldn't want a product I made rolling dice to activate switches every time someone puts it down.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> To some it's a non issue. Same around G402 times. I'd still want it fixed if I were product lead though. Which is what Logitech ended up doing through firmware.
> 
> Looks like FM won't do the same. Sucks for the lifters as you definitely don't need a slam to trigger it.


You need to hit a lot harder then you would while gaming, even if you lift a lot and put the mouse down fairly heavy.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> As an enthusiast of course not. As someone involved in creating the device I wouldn't want a product I made rolling dice to activate switches every time someone puts it down.


*Slams it down.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Did anyone test the slam on a hard pad yet? Or maybe just on the table when doing swipes in CSGO?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Likewise, I too never had a problem on my G402 before the firmware fixes.
> As an enthusiast of course not. As someone involved in creating the device I wouldn't want a product I made rolling dice to activate switches every time someone puts it down.


you are lucky,with my g502 i had a lot of problem for "randomspin" on surface....new firmware fixed it,then logitech is ****?no!simply human error...then if FM fix both click problem i bought it for sure!


----------



## a_ak57

I'm not sure why people are going on about a problem that seems like it'd never come up for most when typically we'd be railing on them for delaying a mouse for over half a year to supposedly fine tune it to perfection then ship it out with something as utterly pathetic as the multi-press problem. And I know Jude says they'll have a fix out soon, but Jude also said the mouse would be out in February or March so you know. Not to mention how do you even ship a mouse out in that state anyway, especially after half a year of fine tuning to perfection?


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Did anyone test the slam on a hard pad yet? Or maybe just on the table when doing swipes in CSGO?


I tested it on a Zowie G-TF (semi hard pad) and couldn't make it activate without purposely slamming it really hard. Will test it on a XTRFY GP3 soon enough.


----------



## kashim

then in normal play without "slam down" the mouse u can t activate click....need only firmware for fix the click problem and EU shipping,jude how much we need to wait?


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> then in normal play without "slam down" the mouse u can t activate click....need only firmware for fix the click problem and EU shipping,jude how much we need to wait?


Jude is busy not giving a s*it


----------



## Deadeye

The way i see it the hole "FinalMouse" slogan is a complete cluster f**k. Their mice are not reliable, they talk big game getting pro csgo player involved, they do alot of adverts but when it comes to quality it's just pure rubbish. I would recommend everyone to stay away from them and don't waist your time. There are plenty of good mice far better then this crap company.


----------



## penskuzzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> The way i see it the hole "FinalMouse" slogan is a complete cluster f**k. Their mice are not reliable, they talk big game getting pro csgo player involved, they do alot of adverts but when it comes to quality it's just pure rubbish. I would recommend everyone to stay away from them and don't waist your time. There are plenty of good mice far better then this crap company.


I wouldn't go that far even though they had a lot of mistakes and quality issues. But i like company's idea and what they are targeting for. I think they could had done this better with drivers etc and still maintaining the important feature like lightweight, responsive sensor, low latency click etc. Driver less is kinda silly since asking price is far beyond their real value but there is no other company that has same mentality or same product and they can ask what ever they want to.


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penskuzzi*
> 
> I wouldn't go that far even though they had a lot of mistakes and quality issues. But i like company's idea and what they are targeting for. I think they could had done this better with drivers etc and still maintaining the important feature like lightweight, responsive sensor, low latency click etc. Driver less is kinda silly since asking price is far beyond their real value but there is no other company that has same mentality or same product and they can ask what ever they want to.


To be honest i think there are better companies then finalmouse, for example i hav G Pro great mouse great sensor, maybe shape not for me still trying to get used to. Shape i like is EC1/2 FK1/2 when these mice will have the same sensor and better click's like Logitech i'm all over it. There are so many Pro players that uses for example Zowie and they are great. I feel this finalmouse is big talk and no game.


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> He's referring to the DPI button though. Think the DPI click code is affecting the M3 switch press?


Maybe there's some ****ery with other buttons as well? Who knows at this point. I wouldn't even bother with any mouse that's so expensive for what it is.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penskuzzi*
> 
> I wouldn't go that far even though they had a lot of mistakes and quality issues. *But i like company's idea and what they are targeting for*. I think they could had done this better with drivers etc and still maintaining the important feature like lightweight, responsive sensor, low latency click etc. Driver less is kinda silly since asking price is far beyond their real value but there is no other company that has same mentality or same product and they can ask what ever they want to.


Wouldent go that far? He dident even go very far.
Your just an example of a guy who has fallen for their marketing, or just have too high tolerance.

Everyone in this forum knows what Finalmouse does, yet they keep buying their products.
Finalmouse is just riding the storm of e-sports increasing popularity.
I guess they just release products with a goal to sell tons and hope for the best.
If not? Well they make so much profit that they can afford to have customers having to RMA multiple times.

Its a really sad world we live in, they are just like those guys who sells a car "100% working" and then when u get it, it breaks after 1 week.


----------



## popups

If they fix the firmware and change the price to $50, the Scream One would be a decent buy.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Its a really sad world we live in


Really sad is when there is no alternative.


----------



## penskuzzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Really sad is when there is no alternative.


That is what i really meant when i said, "I wouldn't go that far" There is simple no other companies to offer product like this. Zowie is the closest competition and there are some new ones too like Dream machine, and Nixeus. I wish these companies would try same direction as Finalmouse BUT make it better than finalmouse like making better quality, drivers etc.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penskuzzi*
> 
> That is what i really meant when i said, "I wouldn't go that far" There is simple no other companies to offer product like this. Zowie is the closest competition and there are some new ones too like Dream machine, and Nixeus. I wish these companies would try same direction as Finalmouse BUT make it better than finalmouse like making better quality, drivers etc.


DM, Nixeus, and FM all had QC issues in the past, both DM mice I owned had QC issues, the Nixeus Revel I have has super stiff clicks for some reason and they feel plasticy, but the FM I own is pretty decent in terms of QC with the only notable issues being that I have some type of rattle on the inside and a slight rattle on the LMB.
I wish there was a company who had this shape besides FM because it's a larger Kinzu which is what I've been looking for since April, and FM well...has had some firmware issues in the past, including here, and the price is way too high for what this mouse is.


----------



## penskuzzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Wouldent go that far? He dident even go very far.
> Your just an example of a guy who has fallen for their marketing, or just have too high tolerance.
> 
> Everyone in this forum knows what Finalmouse does, yet they keep buying their products.
> Finalmouse is just riding the storm of e-sports increasing popularity.
> I guess they just release products with a goal to sell tons and hope for the best.
> If not? Well they make so much profit that they can afford to have customers having to RMA multiple times.
> 
> Its a really sad world we live in, they are just like those guys who sells a car "100% working" and then when u get it, it breaks after 1 week.


I fully understand you and you are right by your opinion indeed. Do you remember how finalmouse started? They were small company and using "less" famous people to advertise their product. Company started getting fame by the product itself because it has different direction than other company and one of them is the "lightweight" feature and "greatly" optimised sensor. I mean if this concept sucks overall, i don't think finalmouse would had gone this far. Many people liked FM2015 like big streamers even though it has ton of quality issues. By that it slowly gain its popularity through them. I don't think they got paid for using their product as far as i concern. *I may be wrong*.


----------



## penskuzzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> DM, Nixeus, and FM all had QC issues in the past, both DM mice I owned had QC issues, the Nixeus Revel I have has super stiff clicks for some reason and they feel plasticy, but the FM I own is pretty decent in terms of QC with the only notable issues being that I have some type of rattle on the inside and a slight rattle on the LMB.
> I wish there was a company who had this shape besides FM because it's a larger Kinzu which is what I've been looking for since April, and FM well...has had some firmware issues in the past, including here, and the price is way too high for what this mouse is.


Starting something new is always a challenge, it's not a surprise for me really. It would be always risky to buy some stuff from new company (relatively). But i don't think either of those (DM and nixeus) did that bad. Both started with OEM design and from there they redesign for their taste. More options is always better for consumer anyway.


----------



## CorruptBE

Still using my Revel here. Sure the build quality pales in comparison to Logitech, but coming from an FK2 it's a direct upgrade imo. Both the clicks and sensor and on top of that Nixeus doesn't charge you an arm and a leg for its mouse.

On top of that Peter is pretty active on the forums and is not afraid to take advice from some knowledgeable people around here to improve firmware.

So for the time being, Nixeus is going in a positive direction. My only (and possible other people) complaint is availability outside of US/Germany/UK.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If the firmware fix doesn't come this week then I'm throwing the ScreamOne into a box until it does, don't really want to do that because I like the shape but I will if I have to, can't play BF4 w/o being able to click both mouse buttons at the same time, unless you use "click button" for ADS, you must be a commie if you do.


Wait you play bf!? Awwwww hell. We gotta squad up.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penskuzzi*
> 
> Starting something new is always a challenge


Just look at where Mionix started:


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Wait you play bf!? Awwwww hell. We gotta squad up.


I do too (well, before BF1 came out). Played with you a few times but never revealed my identity


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I do too (well, before BF1 came out). Played with you a few times but never revealed my identity


Well reveal & let's spit rounds and people. Trying to get Alya to get bf 1. Vespa has it already.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Well reveal & let's spit rounds and people. Trying to get Alya to get bf 1. Vespa has it already.


Who knew that trying nowadays went like this
"Do you have BF1?"
"No"
"Get it"
"Okay"


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Who knew that trying nowadays went like this
> "Do you have BF1?"
> "No"
> "Get it"
> "Okay"


Hell yea, worked hard. Lol


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *penskuzzi*
> 
> That is what i really meant when i said, "I wouldn't go that far" There is simple no other companies to offer product like this. Zowie is the closest competition and there are some new ones too like Dream machine, and Nixeus. I wish these companies would try same direction as Finalmouse BUT make it better than finalmouse like making better quality, drivers etc.


I'm sorry but i don't get it. What is that they're trying to accomplish? And i don't mean philosophy, i mean what kind of mouse with what features are they trying to make in reality?


----------



## aayman_farzand

So I asked a friend to bring one for me and he tested out the S1. He says the clicks are not overly sensitive and is substantially harder than his Rival 700. It sounds loud too.

Is this normal or a defect? I never had a Rival 700 so don't know how that compares.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> So I asked a friend to bring one for me and he tested out the S1. He says the clicks are not overly sensitive and is substantially harder than his Rival 700. It sounds loud too.
> 
> Is this normal or a defect? I never had a Rival 700 so don't know how that compares.


I haven't used a Rival 700 either but if u wanna make sure there isn't anything wrong with this particular mouse, I'd suggest asking him to check out these:

- *Button consistency*. They should feel and sound pretty similar to each other
- *Rattling*. Shaking the mouse shouldn't produce any inside noise. If it does, make sure it's not the sensor's (check this with the paint-tape test or w/e it's called)
- *Sensor*. It shouldn't have any jitter or turn all the way up or down by its own. Ask ur friend to test it ingame
- *Scrollwheel*. All the notches should be felt clear without any obstruction or extra force required. Also the scrollwheel button shouldn't be really hard to press
- *Creaking*. Holding the mouse firmly shouldn't cause a creaking sound from the shell
- *Shell*. It shouldn't have any spot where it's thin enough to let through the inner led light
- *Mouse feet*. They shouldn't be harsh to the touch and should be installed properly
- *Cable*. There shouldn't be any wobbling in the area where it comes out from the mouse

Hope it helps!


----------



## arcrox

Any news on the firmware update to address the ghosting issue? I haven't received an email yet. Is this going to be exclusively at the mercy of Amazon's support and not uploaded publicly by Finalmouse for customers to access?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> Any news on the firmware update to address the ghosting issue? I haven't received an email yet. Is this going to be exclusively at the mercy of Amazon's support and not uploaded publicly by Finalmouse for customers to access?


I haven't received an email yet either, patiently waiting...


----------



## MFlow

Fm must hire competent fw/software developer.
Otherwise there is no future for them.
T.T


----------



## Aventadoor

Ofcourse theres a future for them!
Just look how many who buys their mice without any hesitation


----------



## CorruptBE

They can always get into marketing if they fail as a mouse company.

Oh wait...


----------



## Ihateallmice

delayed 6 months to make sure it's perfect. everything is crap. we did it guys.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Well reveal & let's spit rounds and people. Trying to get Alya to get bf 1. Vespa has it already.


Yep! I tried joining your game PhiZaRoaH a few times, but thanks to this game's janky system, I end up waiting forever. It'd be nice to join forces with friends who are bold enough to risk death and capture points rather than sitting back at base sniping from a hill (*sigh*)


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

We shall hand that soon. Lol


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Oh wait...


And wait... and wait...


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I've heard it can be a bit time consuming, depending on the braid and length of the cable and how careful you want to be.
> It doesn't just fall off after a single cut.
> 
> I assume you're being sarcastic by the "EZ"


i realize this was an old post but thought this might help if u were still on the fence, this is how I do it and it takes under a minute to get the whole thing done.

i just cut the braid near the point where it enters the mouse, clean circular cut and pull the entire braid as one piece down to the usb connector area ... it does look ugly but once its there it doesnt affect your mouse movements in any way since that area doesnt move and u save yourself a good 15 mins of work


----------



## frunction

I found the easiest way is to catch loops of the braid all the way around with an xacto knife until the braid is split. Then cut down the braid with small scissors that come with a grooming kit. Takes ten minutes.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> I found the easiest way is to catch loops of the braid all the way around with an xacto knife until the braid is split. Then cut down the braid with small scissors that come with a grooming kit. Takes ten minutes.


Any chance you can record that method? Going to use it on a dummy mouse then try on my g pro


----------



## Alya

Today's Friday and I still have not received the fix for the firmware, it's starting to get really frustrating in H1Z1, BF4, and now it has gotten me killed several times in CWs on SF2, if this firmware update doesn't come very soon (like...this Sunday soon) then I will probably end up returning this mouse and going back to the Kinzu...again...I usually wouldn't return a mouse, but the $80 price point and the lack of support for something that frankly shouldn't have existed in the first place is really getting to me.

I didn't even return my G Pro and that mouse is pretty much unusable for me due to the shape, but there's a difference between a shape making the mouse unusable, and the mouse actually being unusable because of a firmware issue.


----------



## sirneb

I hear ya. They really should publicly acknowledge this ghosting issue through a blog or twitter. This is not something that a company should keep quiet since it's a serious issue that affects all customers sooner or later. Also it's their best interest to minimize returns with the promise of a fix and also keep themselves accountable for their mistakes.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> it's their best interest to minimize returns with the promise of a fix.


Agree 100%, they said that they were working on a firmware fix and they said it should probably be available early next week, here we are now a week later and 2 weeks since the release of the mouse, the problem is still there and Jude hasn't said anything recently besides that "emails went out" and nothing else beyond that, we haven't heard anything since, I guess FinallyMouse is living up to its name of not delivering on time...guess we'll see the firmware 6 months late like we did with the actual mouse.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Agree 100%, they said that they were working on a firmware fix and they said it should probably be available early next week, here we are now a week later and 2 weeks since the release of the mouse, the problem is still there and Jude hasn't said anything recently besides that "emails went out" and nothing else beyond that, we haven't heard anything since, I guess FinallyMouse is living up to its name of not delivering on time...guess we'll see the firmware 6 months late like we did with the actual mouse.


As disappointing as Logitech saying they've fixed the G403 scroll rattle, and to this day still happens in new models.
Everyone is garbage, they really are.

Nobody makes good mice, the market is terrible.


----------



## Dreyka

Finalfail never ceases to entertain. Overpriced, glaring design issues and fixes always coming "soon".


----------



## end0rphine

This was posted in an inline comment on a review on Amazon; someone emailed Finalmouse about the firmware update and this was their response (1 day ago):
Quote:


> Hello,
> 
> We are working diligently to deliver the flasher. We expect an update to come later this week! We greatly appreciate your patience. Please rest assured we will take care of you as we greatly value you as a Finalmouse customer! This will most likely come in the form of a Dropbox download link. All that you will need to do would be to download the file and install it with your Scream1 plugged in. We appreciate your patience and apologize for the inconvenience.
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> I hear ya. They really should publicly acknowledge this ghosting issue through a blog or twitter. This is not something that a company should keep quiet since it's a serious issue that affects all customers sooner or later. Also it's their best interest to minimize returns with the promise of a fix and also keep themselves accountable for their mistakes.


They won't do that because they want the misguided scream fanboys who don't do any research to buy the mouse.


----------



## SEJB

Dropbox download link? Are they serious? Just host it on your own page and make it seem more professional instead of a dropbox link which makes it seem like a third party ghettohack.

This launch is actually hilarious and I am seriously doubting my willingness to test it when it releases in Europe.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Dropbox download link? Are they serious? Just host it on your own page and make it seem more professional instead of a dropbox link which makes it seem like a third party ghettohack.
> 
> This launch is actually hilarious and I am seriously doubting my willingness to test it when it releases in Europe.


You get a lot for $80.


----------



## JsBee

As someone who has been a DeathAdder fan and had good experiences with Razer the past few years I find it hilarious that there are so many problems with Logitechs' new mice and the Scream One. Yeah Synapse can be annoying for a lot of people(it isn't for me) but at least their products work when you buy them.

I had to return my S1 the other day because the mouse buttons would make noises when I put my fingers on them without even clicking and the cable was so stiff to the point that I couldn't comfortably use it in CS:GO and LoL.

I just don't understand how they can mess up this badly with this mouse. I honestly would have wished they delayed the release even MORE to make sure none of these problems happened.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Dropbox download link? Are they serious? Just host it on your own page and make it seem more professional instead of a dropbox link which makes it seem like a third party ghettohack.
> 
> This launch is actually hilarious and I am seriously doubting my willingness to test it when it releases in Europe.


Didn't Mionix do the same thing?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> Dropbox download link? Are they serious?


Still better than Zippyshare


----------



## Crazy9000

I really like the mouse after removing the cable braiding. I'll be happy with mine if they ever get around to releasing the firmware update.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JsBee*
> 
> As someone who has been a DeathAdder fan and had good experiences with Razer the past few years I find it hilarious that there are so many problems with Logitechs' new mice and the Scream One. Yeah Synapse can be annoying for a lot of people(it isn't for me) but at least their products work when you buy them.
> 
> I had to return my S1 the other day because the mouse buttons would make noises when I put my fingers on them without even clicking and the cable was so stiff to the point that I couldn't comfortably use it in CS:GO and LoL.
> 
> I just don't understand how they can mess up this badly with this mouse. I honestly would have wished they delayed the release even MORE to make sure none of these problems happened.


my deathadder LMB broke in half...i play with sponsored razer team...(we have mouse and keyboard only),and trust me razer products have a lot of problems,FM isn t the only one with taht kind of problems,if they fix mouse is good imho


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Didn't Mionix do the same thing?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Still better than Zippyshare


Still awful way of handling it when you have a real webpage.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Still better than Zippyshare




True dat


----------



## chr1spe

So how is scream playing with this mouse currently? Does his have a different firmware version or is he purposely handicapping his ability to throw nades in certain ways by using this mouse? I wouldn't think a professional player would even consider using the mouse in its current state.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So how is scream playing with this mouse currently? Does his have a different firmware version or is he purposely handicapping his ability to throw nades in certain ways by using this mouse? I wouldn't think a professional player would even consider using the mouse in its current state.


Thought he used one of the newer Finalmouse models that won't be out until 2017.


----------



## arcrox

My unit doesn't have an issue with M1 + M2, just M1/M2 + M3/M4/M5. Besides, 1 button is all you need to get ze sick wun teps, my friend ?

Seriously though, the firmware fix is taking a very long time to release for something that would be a red alert, 24-48 hour turn-around time hot-fix for any other company. This, compounded by the fact that the only source of up-to-date, reliable information is a community forum amounts to a lot of egg on the face of Finalmouse. It's disappointing, because the mouse is honestly quite good despite the issues (I'm using it over a G403, G Pro, G303, or G402).

Finalmouse really needs to step up their game beyond their bare bones placeholder of a website and sparse tweets.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> Seriously though, the firmware fix is taking a very long time to release for something that would be a red alert, 24-48 hour turn-around time hot-fix for any other company. .


You are wrong







No other company at that price point will release a mouse with a button ghosting issue in first place to begin with


----------



## ncck

I hope in a year we have a really solid version with a rubber cable and all the kinks worked out - mainly because the sensor performance on this thing was pretty damn beast. I won't leave a 'review' though cause I never had a proper working unit. Yes I know I complain about braids a lot haha


----------



## Nivity

To be honest..
The only mousecable that is acceptable after using a paracord is Zowies and Deathadder 3g imo.
The rest are just to stiff, thick etc.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> To be honest..
> The only mousecable that is acceptable after using a paracord is Zowies and Deathadder 3g imo.
> The rest are just to stiff, thick etc.


You are correct, even my $10 mouse at work which is not for gaming has a small elevated stress reliever and a rubber cable, similar to zowie.. work mice get it right and gaming mice get it wrong









Braiding is worse on certain pads though, on a qck heavy it's 'ok' but go to a coated pad which already has friction then add in the cable drag friction and that's where it gets obnoxious


----------



## fakeusername

What is the mouse DPI by default?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> What is the mouse DPI by default?


400/800/1600/3200 steps are supported, when I plugged my mouse in it was on 3200 CPI.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> 400/800/1600/3200 steps are supported, when I plugged my mouse in it was on 3200 CPI.


for you man if they six click issues s1 is a good mouse?because i really need light mouse,ambi shape,medium size wih 3360 sensor ^^


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> for you man if they six click issues s1 is a good mouse?because i really need light mouse,ambi shape,medium size wih 3360 sensor ^^


If the mouse comes to you fully functional (nothing broken) and they fix that issue then it's not a bad mouse at all. The only downside at that point from my view is the braided cable - the shape, sensor performance, and sensor position felt really good in-game. Oh and I guess the price might be a con but I don't see that changing anytime soon and the warranty is pretty long afaik.

The mouse works for larger hands so I guess medium sized hands should be ok - so if that's what you're looking for then this may be the solution... otherwise you'd probably have to wait for zowie to move over to the 3360 lineup


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> If the mouse comes to you fully functional (nothing broken) and they fix that issue then it's not a bad mouse at all. The only downside at that point from my view is the braided cable - the shape, sensor performance, and sensor position felt really good in-game. Oh and I guess the price might be a con but I don't see that changing anytime soon and the warranty is pretty long afaik.
> 
> The mouse works for larger hands so I guess medium sized hands should be ok - so if that's what you're looking for then this may be the solution... otherwise you'd probably have to wait for zowie to move over to the 3360 lineup


Difficult to sift through these posts to find actual reviews lol

Do you have any other mice to compare the size too?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrunkOnLiquor*
> 
> Difficult to sift through these posts to find actual reviews lol
> 
> Do you have any other mice to compare the size too?


Hmm... well the shape is made in a way that your index finger can lay 'long' on the right side which in turn gives you more control over movements because most mice require that finger to be bent and not comfortably extended.. The size is kind of similar to the DM1/Revel but the shell is a little different.. I like to think of it as a bigger zowie FK1 with different sides - bigger and lighter. It's a pretty 'safe' shape to be honest but hard to compare to other mice because most are bigger or smaller - it's not as big as a steelseries rival, deathadder, or g403 - but it's bigger than a zowie fk, logitech g pro, and zowie za12.. if that helps narrow it down.. sort of.

In other news FM support contacted me and said they are shipping a replacement







so if I get a working unit I can actually write out a review. Hope that helps.. sort of


----------



## sarkarlos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrunkOnLiquor*
> 
> Difficult to sift through these posts to find actual reviews lol
> 
> Do you have any other mice to compare the size too?


I usually compare the size to the SS Sensei. I'll post few mice side-by-side that might give you an idea of the size comparatively. About the pictures; I'm not a photographer and I had to use my "workbench" to get somewhat decent lighting so excuse the mess  I have a few other mice laying around so if you'd rather see it compared to something else just let me know.

The mice are in order as follow: Zowie ZA12, Finalmouse TP16, Steelseries Sensei RAW, Finalmouse S1, Razer DA13, Steelseries Rival 300

Edit: The TP16 may appear taller than it actually is due to the fact that I replaced the skates with IE3.0 replacements that happen to be slightly thicker at 0.80mm


----------



## Alya

I have initiated a return to Amazon and have gone back to my Kinzu. Shame too because I liked the shape, guess I'll look at the G102.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Hmm... well the shape is made in a way that your index finger can lay 'long' on the right side which in turn gives you more control over movements because most mice require that finger to be bent and not comfortably extended.. The size is kind of similar to the DM1/Revel but the shell is a little different.. *I like to think of it as a bigger zowie FK1 with different sides - bigger and lighter.* It's a pretty 'safe' shape to be honest but hard to compare to other mice because most are bigger or smaller - it's not as big as a steelseries rival, deathadder, or g403 - but it's bigger than a zowie fk, logitech g pro, and zowie za12.. if that helps narrow it down.. sort of.
> 
> In other news FM support contacted me and said they are shipping a replacement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so if I get a working unit I can actually write out a review. Hope that helps.. sort of


Screw you now you made me want this mouse a little bit.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> To be honest..
> The only mousecable that is acceptable after using a paracord is Zowies and Deathadder 3g imo.
> The rest are just to stiff, thick etc.


Revel is OK too. It's more the weight of the cable that's the issue imo and not the materials. But then again, I've yet to see a braided cable that didn't annoy me from time to time.


----------



## trism

Agree that it's more of the weight than the cable itself. I hate Zowie's cable. It's... flabby. Quick motion towards either side and the cord flabs after that creating a distracting feeling of a "pull". I want the cable to just follow the mouse itself while being straight like a stick. Never had issues with _good_ braided cables, like the KPMs one. DA3G and Rival 100 do have very good rubber cables though.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If someone has their button actuate during normal gameplay, support will accommodate this as it is a defect. We have in the ball park of 20 pro cs players on either a new TP batch or S1 that all play on low sens and have never reported this issue. We have also double checked recently ourselves.
> 
> You are right it does not take a "Hard" Slam to actuate. But it requires a purposeful slamming motion onto a hard surface. We did not find it to actuate in any normal gaming environment. Regardless of sensitivity.
> 
> If you are someone that does forcefully place the mouse down onto a surface to the point of actuating the S1 or TP, then these mice are not meant for you!


I received s1 on November 12th in Korea.

It has 3 scratches, and when the mouse is impacted, the left button works by itself.
I want to exchange s1 but the shipping cost is about 35dollars.
Is it my charge?
Then i have to give up the exchange.
Is there a way to save me?
I already attached pictures and sent an inquiry mail to the support team.


----------



## Ihateallmice

we already tried to save you, but you went and bought this piece of crap anyway. enjoy.


----------



## Bucake

if you wanted to save him you should've said it has angle snapping


----------



## Jonagold

Where is proof about angle snapping on Scream One?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Where is proof about angle snapping on Scream One?


Inside joke.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> if you wanted to save him you should've said it has angle snapping


There was no saving me, I would've bought it anyway. This guy on the other hand...


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I received s1 on November 12th in Korea.
> 
> It has 3 scratches, and when the mouse is impacted, the left button works by itself.
> I want to exchange s1 but the shipping cost is about 35dollars.
> Is it my charge?
> Then i have to give up the exchange.
> Is there a way to save me?
> I already attached pictures and sent an inquiry mail to the support team.


Mouse is not supposed to be impacted while playing, smooth movements is the key, are those scratches gonna have impact on performance?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Mouse is not supposed to be impacted while playing, smooth movements is the key, are those scratches gonna have impact on performance?


It was original scratches.
The shock i said is due to slamming


----------



## MFlow

I see a boy playing like a nickname.
Is that what you said g102?
Try it and say it.


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I see a boy playing like a nickname.
> Is that what you said g102?
> Try it and say it.


sorry, what?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> sorry, what?


Seems like he's thinks that Bucake is giving him a lowkey diss and he told Bucake to use the G102 then talk, that's just my interpretation of it though.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> sorry, what?


It refers to the person who brought the story on another subject to this point and sarcastic.
You dont have to care.


----------



## SEJB

What are you even on about? You bought a mouse knowing returns would be rough for you even after reading this thread. That is just stupid so deal with it now instead of being angry at people saying we warned you.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I received s1 on November 12th in Korea.
> 
> It has 3 scratches, and when the mouse is impacted, the left button works by itself.
> I want to exchange s1 but the shipping cost is about 35dollars.
> Is it my charge?
> Then i have to give up the exchange.
> Is there a way to save me?
> I already attached pictures and sent an inquiry mail to the support team.


I'm not sure but aren't they supposed to reimburse the money for shipping back? Jude has confirmed previously that the 3 year warranty holds irrespective of your location. So I guess you'll be fine, try messaging him directly?


----------



## ncck

They have a replacement coming to me and all I provided was my serial number, I didn't have to pay for any return


----------



## shaiaz

After a day or so of use the switches seem to have gotten mushy, left click much more than right


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> It refers to the person who brought the story on another subject to this point and sarcastic.
> You dont have to care.


LOL


----------



## sirneb

The "slam" bug is becoming an issue for me. I said this wasn't an issue for me before, but it is. Even though this bug actually only happens about once or twice per game. I can pretty much predict when it *may* happen. It usually happens when I have to turn 180 quickly to respond to a surprise flank. Unintentional actuation is unacceptable when playing at a competitive level.

As a test, I had another unopened S1 lying around that I was going to return, I used that to see if the actuation force is the same and it was. I only need to quick swipes, lift then land quickly to actuate unintentionally. The force in this exercise is pretty reasonable for any gamer. The only way I see this mouse not affecting a player is if they play high sensitivity that requires very little lift and land actions.

I also notice that the actuation actually happens on both the LMB and RMB simultaneously, but depending on the game, the game will activate one over another as if you click both at the same time. For example, In Overwatch, depending on what heroes you are playing, it would activate LMB on some and RMB on others deterministically.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> The "slam" bug is becoming an issue for me. I said this wasn't an issue for me before, but it is. Even though this bug actually only happens about once or twice per game. I can pretty much predict when it *may* happen. It usually happens when I have to turn 180 quickly to respond to a surprise flank. Unintentional actuation is unacceptable when playing at a competitive level.
> 
> As a test, I had another unopened S1 lying around that I was going to return, I used that to see if the actuation force is the same and it was. I only need to quick swipes, lift then land quickly to actuate unintentionally. The force in this exercise is pretty reasonable for any gamer. The only way I see this mouse not affecting a player is if they play high sensitivity that requires very little lift and land actions.
> 
> I also notice that the actuation actually happens on both the LMB and RMB simultaneously, but depending on the game, the game will activate one over another as if you click both at the same time. For example, In Overwatch, depending on what heroes you are playing, it would activate LMB on some and RMB on others deterministically.


It is not a bug, sensitive buttons are one of Scream One qualities.. Even if you turn around quickly you should have enough control of the mouse, that you can smoothly pick it up and down without causing impact. If you let go off the mouse while turning letting it to drop on the mouse mat or don't use your hand muscles to have control when moving the mouse up and down at lifting movement it is called miss-use of a sensitive product.

You don't tell Ferrari to fix sensitive clutch pedal just because you have clumsy feet..


----------



## wareya

Would it be a feature if the mouse had blade edges on it that cause your hands to bleed and get infected?


----------



## Jonagold

Wondering when is this gonna be available at Europe?


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Would it be a feature if the mouse had blade edges on it that cause your hands to bleed and get infected?


No, that would be bad shape design, assuming there is no benefits of those sharp edges..


----------



## wareya

There's no benefit to buttons so light they actuate themselves either.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> There's no benefit to buttons so light they actuate themselves either.


I argue there is. Less force you need to apply for clicking, more relaxed your hand stays while aiming..


----------



## wareya

You don't need your buttons to actuate themselves to require less force to actuate the buttons.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> You don't need your buttons to actuate themselves to require less force to actuate the buttons.


As it has been stated many times, buttons doesn't actuate themselves, they actuate because of clumsy use.. Only other factor is the weight on the switch caused by the plastic button.. That could have been made lighter but then it would become less durable and maybe less consistent..


----------



## wareya

When putting the mouse down (at *normal* forces, mind you) without having your fingers on the buttons causes the buttons to actuate, the buttons are in fact actuating themselves.


----------



## trism

That's just physics. You can't have both, light separate buttons and low button accept time. You need either a bit stiffer shell/have some force tension to have zero accept delay or you have to raise the delay for the accept.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> When putting the mouse down (at *normal* forces, mind you) without having your fingers on the buttons causes the buttons to actuate, the buttons are in fact actuating themselves.


Mouse is not supposed to be put down with any force, you don't throw your mouse sideways while aiming, you move it with control. Use that same control when picking and you will do fine..


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Mouse is not supposed to be put down with any force


Oh, so this mouse is meant for a world where never people pick up their mice?


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> That's just physics. You can't have both, light separate buttons and low button accept time. You need either a bit stiffer shell/have some force tension to have zero accept delay or you have to raise the delay for the accept.


Exactly.


----------



## wareya

Or you could just like not design a shell where the mouse buttons alone place so much pressure on the switches when putting the mouse down during normal gameplay.


----------



## trism

I haven't tried the S1 personally but I think I would have problems if the buttons are light/have pre-tension with low actuation force OMRONs. That's the exact problem I have with G Pro... now it doesn't actuate if I slam it without fingers on top but raising my fingers up from the buttons when placing it back down isn't exactly optimal either.

Now I am a bit different anyways: I can spam click Zowies, Rival 100 etc. better than the G303/G Pro/light buttoned mice. With those, I just get stuck on actuate state because they don't have force to return it.


----------



## wareya

The S1's issue is that it will literally click even with your fingers off the buttons if you put it down the wrong way. And I don't mean slamming it, based on early videos of it, you can get the clicking very consistent just by tapping the front end of it down, and _multiple_ people are complaining about it actuating itself during normal low-sens gameplay with their fingers off the buttons. At least, that behavior is within the tolerances they're making it with.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Oh, so this mouse is meant for a world where never people pick up their mice?


It is meant for people who have continuous control of their mouse, you don't need the gravitational force to put your mouse down for you, you can actually use your hand muscles to decrease the impact speed..


----------



## wareya

So what you're saying is you can't return to tracking as quickly as you want? Isn't that an impediment?


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> The S1's issue is that it will literally click even with your fingers off the buttons if you put it down the wrong way. And I don't mean slamming it, based on early videos of it, you can get the clicking very consistent just by tapping the front end of it down, and _multiple_ people are complaining about it actuating itself during normal low-sens gameplay with their fingers off the buttons. At least, that behavior is within the tolerances they're making it with.


I haven't seen a single video where it is put back down similarly how I would use it, but slammed so hard that I would wake my wife and daughter up if I played midnight.


----------



## wareya

Are you basing that off the microphone bass problem the first review had?


----------



## Jonagold

In the context of things I would assume the problem being those users with poor control over their mouse. That would also explain why none of the pro players have experienced these issues with button actuating unintentionally.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Are you basing that off the microphone bass problem the first review had?


Yeah but you can see that he's pushing it down very quickly. I don't get similar bass with mine until I slam the mouse down like a ******. It is bad design though and they should give a software with a possibility to add delay for those who are having the issue. Afaik Logitech added delay for the G402 as the buttons self-actuated on a similar scenario.


----------



## trism

_double post, remove, *** forum_


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Yeah but you can see that he's pushing it down very quickly. I don't get similar bass with mine until I slam the mouse down like a ******. It is bad design though and they should give a software with a possibility to add delay for those who are having the issue. Afaik Logitech added delay for the G402 as the buttons self-actuated on a similar scenario.


And that is when Logitech went full casual and I can't use their products anymore..


----------



## wareya

lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Or you could just like not design a shell where the mouse buttons alone place so much pressure on the switches when putting the mouse down during normal gameplay.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> And that is when Logitech went full casual and I can't use their products anymore..


... the delay is literally 4-5 ms. A total non-issue.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> lol


Yeah, like a lot of mice currently have? I don't understand the low actuation force crap either. Do u even lift bro


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> ... the delay is literally 4-5 ms. A total non-issue.


When you have your muscle memory fine-tuned up to certain aim-click rhythm, even such a small difference will make a difference of flick hitting or missing..


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> When you have your muscle memory fine-tuned up to certain aim-click rhythm, even such a small difference will make a difference of flick hitting or missing..


Then there is only a few mice you can play with. The DM1 PRO S which I've seen you using (before the inevitable cable failure) has more delay.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> ... the delay is literally 4-5 ms. A total non-issue.


When you have your muscle memory fine-tuned up to certain aim-click rhythm, even such a small difference will make a difference of flick hitting or missing..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Then there is only a few mice you can play with. The DM1 PRO S which I've seen you using (before the inevitable cable failure) has more delay.


Yes I know, that is why I am waiting to get this Scream One asap. I know I could get used to the delay but that would mean that the next mouse I use should have that same exact delay and I don't want to waste my practice on that. I will have my aim tuned to 0ms delay and hope that some company in the future can deliver on that note..


----------



## Jonagold

Of course I can play with mice that has some delay but I just won't be able to flick-onetap at all. It will be mostly aiming on stationary targets and spraying.. At top 1% level that would still be..


----------



## wareya

coulda bought a ZM-M600R


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Of course I can play with mice that has some delay but I just won't be able to flick-onetap at all. It will be mostly aiming on stationary targets and spraying.. At top 1% level that would still be..


Sorry to burst your bubble but S1 does not have 0 ms delay (not including USB poll delay), unless they designed the mouse entirely wrong.

Edited out due to a brainfart. I'm in a serious need of morning coffee


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble but S1 does not have 0 ms delay, unless they designed the mouse entirely wrong.


I would call close enough to be around 0-2ms. If you refer to click debounce issue, there is a method to do it without adding much delay. That would be registering the click with the first impact and release after the set debounce time..


----------



## chr1spe

Lol, who are all these pros using the mouse? What's his name said pros were using this mouse, but afaik the only one that might be using it is Scream. Also how do they play at such a high competitive level without being able to properly throw nades for certain situations. As this mouse currently stands it is probably one of the last mice I would ever consider getting to play competitive games. Also I like how you don't even have the mouse and are telling people who do that they are using their mouse wrong. Even if you had the mouse it is very possible that some units have the issue worse than other to the point where it is very easily an issue. I'm not sure about you, but I don't put my mouse back down like it is an egg shell. Sometimes I do put the mouse back down with a bit of force in the heat of the moment. If that caused firing I wouldn't be too happy about it.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Lol, who are all these pros using the mouse? What's his name said pros were using this mouse, but afaik the only one that might be using it is Scream. Also how do they play at such a high competitive level without being able to properly throw nades for certain situations. As this mouse currently stands it is probably one of the last mice I would ever consider getting to play competitive games. Also I like how you don't even have the mouse and are telling people who do that they are using their mouse wrong. Even if you had the mouse it is very possible that some units have the issue worse than other to the point where it is very easily an issue. I'm not sure about you, but I don't put my mouse back down like it is an egg shell. Sometimes I do put the mouse back down with a bit of force in the heat of the moment. If that caused firing I wouldn't be too happy about it.


That issue with clicks not registering while pressing multiple buttons at once was a real issue, they promised to fix that with a firmware update, can't believe that went unnoticed through their testing.

I have seen the video of this "issue" Dude smashing his mouse and sometimes it doesn't even actuate even when he smashes it like a madman..


----------



## wareya

If you think he's smashing it like a madman I think you have problems judging force


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> I would call close enough to be around 0-2ms. If you refer to click debounce issue, there is a method to do it without adding much delay. That would be registering the click with the first impact and release after the set debounce time..


Actually I'll take my words back, it doesn't have any delay if their talk about the firmware stuff is correct. With this design however they should probably add the few ms before accept.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> I have seen the video of this "issue" Dude smashing his mouse and sometimes it doesn't even actuate even when he smashes it like a madman..


It does not take a "slam" to actuate the button. Concretely, it's about 5-8mm drop from my cloth mouse pad to cause the actuation. It will likely be rare to apply that much force but it will happen and it will cause you to make a mistake.


----------



## Jonagold

Well, if they apply the firmware fix for that multiple button registering problem, I will buy this mouse. If those sensitive buttons will actually cause problems I would cut useless part of the mouse button off to make it lighter..

I just never drop mice even when lifting, I honestly don't think it would became an issue for me..


----------



## SEJB

If you never put your mouse down with some force you either never ever get caught by a flank or you have the highest sensitivity in the world. If you play with a low sensitivity and you are clearing corners or have to do a 180 you will probably slam it with some force once in a while when you reset.


----------



## trism

Tolerances obviously have an effect and it's really hard to say without owning the mouse. I just know I would most likely have an issue because this design means the shell is not having any counter-force... When I play with the G Pro, I actuate the RMB randomly even when not moving the mouse and just resting my hand on it normally.


----------



## Jonagold

I play with 1.5 and 800 dpi, I can turn around without lifting the mouse. Most pro players play around similar sensitivity levels. I can do fast swipes without mouse making any slamming on the mousemat.

Not every mouse is for everybody, find one that can take the slamming if you are a low-sens player and slam your mouse sometimes..


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> I play with 1.5 and 800 dpi, I can turn around without lifting the mouse. *Most pro players play around similar sensitivity levels*. I can do fast swipes without mouse making any slamming on the mousemat.


What game are you talking about? Because if it's CS you are 50% higher than the average pro sensitivity.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> What game are you talking about? Because if it's CS you are 50% higher than the average pro sensitivity.


CSGO indeed, so I need 34,6cm for 360 and the average is around 50cm for 360.. I guess I have slightly higher sens than an average then..


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> That's just physics. You can't have both, light separate buttons and low button accept time. You need either a bit stiffer shell/have some force tension to have zero accept delay or you have to raise the delay for the accept.


G pro has lighter buttons than s1 and it didn't happen there

I'll have a working s1 today hopefully and see if the force thing is different aka if I can make it happen during crazy quake play not intentionally then it can be a problem


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> G pro has lighter buttons than s1 and it didn't happen there
> 
> I'll have a working s1 today hopefully and see if the force thing is different aka if I can make it happen during crazy quake play not intentionally then it can be a problem


G Pro has a debounce delay prior to click accept.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> G Pro has a debounce delay prior to click accept.


What does that have to do with the button being easy to press


----------



## wareya

high debounce periods prevent extremely short clicks from registering


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> G Pro has a debounce delay prior to click accept.


And despite the debounce, there are owners like myself who had copies of the G Pro where the M1/M2 buttons were borderline hair-triggerlike. It got to the point where just resting my fingers on the M1/M2 buttons could accidentally trigger off the switch. This year, my copy of the G Pro had the most ridiculously lightest switches I've ever used on a mouse (even lighter than my DA:Chroma). Now, you could get lucky and get one that has really tactile M1/M2 switches, but this is mainly a characteristic of Logitech's QC (or lack of it).


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> high debounce periods prevent extremely short clicks from registering


Thank you good sir! You are informative and educated man.

So yeah the g pro manages to have the most ridiculous light buttons I've seen and not accidentally register. I'll have my second S1 later today... just praying it has no QC issues!


----------



## -IIToRII-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Thank you good sir! You are informative and educated man.
> 
> So yeah the g pro manages to have the most ridiculous light buttons I've seen and not accidentally register. I'll have my second S1 later today... just praying it has no QC issues!


I hope u got a good one and that the quality of the mouse improves.. So far it seems that finale mouse have a bad name for them self regarding quality-
If i'm not wrong, it seems like the majority of u guys have issues with the copy u got AND that's somewhat worrying...

10 guys buy the product and 7 of them got problems..
That's fairly high.

I love their ides and would love to try the product . G403 seems to wide to me, g pro gives me cramp (to flat? ) Ec-2a feels like there is some delay on the M1/M2
Scroll-wheel don't feel nice and mouse 4 and 5 is mushy BAD..
Shape on ec-2a is awsm ..


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> And despite the debounce, there are owners like myself who had copies of the G Pro where the M1/M2 buttons were borderline hair-triggerlike. It got to the point where just resting my fingers on the M1/M2 buttons could accidentally trigger off the switch. This year, my copy of the G Pro had the most ridiculously lightest switches I've ever used on a mouse (even lighter than my DA:Chroma). Now, you could get lucky and get one that has really tactile M1/M2 switches, but this is mainly a characteristic of Logitech's QC (or lack of it).


I have a G Pro. The switches are extremely light on mine too but I found the light clicks as a feature. I did accidentally click at times but I know that a click was registered and I get a click feedback. In the instance of the S1, there is no click made therefore no click feedback, so it's somewhat random.


----------



## arcrox

It seems to me that to make both sides of the argument happy, FM should allow end-users to set a debounce delay via a toggle in the firmware. Default vs. a slight delay to address the slam-click issue. I personally don't have an issue with accidental click actuation, but it would be a reasonable compromise to address the concerns of the increasing number of vocal, unhappy customers that are raining on FM's parade.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> G Pro has a debounce delay prior to click accept.
> 
> 
> 
> And despite the debounce, there are owners like myself who had copies of the G Pro where the M1/M2 buttons were borderline hair-triggerlike. It got to the point where just resting my fingers on the M1/M2 buttons could accidentally trigger off the switch. This year, my copy of the G Pro had the most ridiculously lightest switches I've ever used on a mouse (even lighter than my DA:Chroma). Now, you could get lucky and get one that has really tactile M1/M2 switches, but this is mainly a characteristic of Logitech's QC (or lack of it).
Click to expand...

Yepp G pro and G403 buttons are swing or miss.
Second G pro have good buttons, still fairly light but I think that is just how the mouse is, but not super light like people said, I would say around the same or slightly harder then a Deathadder which is known for super light clicks.

G403 have much harder clicks compared to the G pro, all 3 of mine have been like that.
However I have not gotten a G403 where BOTH LMB RMB feel really good, its either 1 of the buttons that feel good, the other one does not.
So ye, logitech lul.


----------



## unplayed namer

am I the only one that only gets great products from logitech? Had 6 Logitech mice so far and only 1 had a build quality issue which was a g303 with lens rattle... which is an easy fix although it sucks to have it ....


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unplayed namer*
> 
> am I the only one that only gets great products from logitech? Had 6 Logitech mice so far and only 1 had a build quality issue which was a g303 with lens rattle... which is an easy fix although it sucks to have it ....


This. My G403 has a terrible scroll wheel rattle and that's it, I've never had any issues before this one.


----------



## unplayed namer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> This. My G403 has a terrible scroll wheel rattle and that's it, I've never had any issues before this one.


After disassembling my G403 I am really curious what causes this rattle on other units. Couldn't make that possible issue out on my unit.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unplayed namer*
> 
> am I the only one that only gets great products from logitech? Had 6 Logitech mice so far and only 1 had a build quality issue which was a g303 with lens rattle... which is an easy fix although it sucks to have it ....


You shill!!

On a real note the G403 is the only mouse I got from them that had issue. And even then it was known by Logitech and they stopped a replacement which was perfect. Every single mouse I have from them that I've kept has been solid.

But apparently I'm biased so don't take my word on it.


----------



## shaiaz

Does anyone else have mushy clicks or is it just me







I am hoping they're not getting worse and worse. They're the same, left and right.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> I play with 1.5 and 800 dpi, I can turn around without lifting the mouse. Most pro players play around similar sensitivity levels. I can do fast swipes without mouse making any slamming on the mousemat.
> 
> Not every mouse is for everybody, find one that can take the slamming if you are a low-sens player and slam your mouse sometimes..


Your in denial, thats your problem.
Ofcourse its a design fault. How can you not accept that? Ive never experienced or even seen such before and I have owned over 15 mice.
And the average sens for pro's in CSGO is 46,2cm.
Its also pretty logical that a guy who uses 45cm or more for a 360 will most likly have to lift the mice rather frequently. With your sens you probably dont use your arm alot either.
You also have to take into consideration how hard their pad is.

Oh well... I guess the S1 is "not for people with low sens"


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Your in denial, thats your problem.
> Ofcourse its a design fault. How can you not accept that? Ive never experienced or even seen such before and I have owned over 15 mice.
> And the average sens for pro's in CSGO is 46,2cm.
> Its also pretty logical that a guy who uses 45cm or more for a 360 will most likly have to lift the mice rather frequently. With your sens you probably dont use your arm alot either.
> You also have to take into consideration how hard their pad is.
> 
> Oh well... I guess the S1 is "not for people with low sens"


wait a mouse build for esport and signed by scream(low senser fps player) ISN T GOOD FOR LOW SENSER?gj FM


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Your in denial, thats your problem.
> Ofcourse its a design fault. How can you not accept that? Ive never experienced or even seen such before and I have owned over 15 mice.
> And the average sens for pro's in CSGO is 46,2cm.
> Its also pretty logical that a guy who uses 45cm or more for a 360 will most likly have to lift the mice rather frequently. With your sens you probably dont use your arm alot either.
> You also have to take into consideration how hard their pad is.
> 
> Oh well... I guess the S1 is "not for people with low sens"


It doesn't click when lifting off on my aluminum mouse pad. I even tried intentionally putting the mouse down hard, and it still doesn't accidentally go off.


----------



## ncck

Just got my replacement haven't plugged it in but thank goodness the clicks both feel functional.

Now I can use it and see if accident clicks actually happen cause I'm low sensitivity and review it!


----------



## MFlow

Here is the answer.

Hello,

The clicker main switches on the Scream1 are designed to be highly delicate and will actuate upon minimal force. That being said, if you drop your S1 from abnormal heights there is a good chance that the switch will actuate. This is not a defect. After reading this and you still feel like something is wrong with your Scream1 please rest assured we will happily take care of you as our valued customer.

Thanks,
Finalmouse Support

You'd better get a mouse replacement. According to fm, your mouse is bad.

Fm is an artist who sublimates defects into intentional merits.
So far, there has been no such manufacturer of mice.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Here is the answer.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The clicker main switches on the Scream1 are designed to be highly delicate and will actuate upon minimal force. That being said, if you drop your S1 from abnormal heights there is a good chance that the switch will actuate. This is not a defect. After reading this and you still feel like something is wrong with your Scream1 please rest assured we will happily take care of you as our valued customer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support
> 
> You'd better get a mouse replacement. According to fm, your mouse is bad.
> 
> Fm is an artist who sublimates defects into intentional merits.
> So far, there has been no such manufacturer of mice.


I guess the question is what is considered "abnormal"?

Jude at one point mentioned that he tried the slam on the tournament pro and it had the same behavior, does anyone have one that can compare it with the S1? If it exists in the same state as S1, I'm curious how nobody complained yet.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The TP which has the same clicker design as the s1 is used by some of the lowest sens Pro players in the esports world. Brehze who is currently one of the best up and coming NA cs players is at 1.9 sens at 400 dpi.

We have never heard a peep out of anyone with the TP about accidental clicks. And we have looked into this issue. If you are accidentally actuating the clicks on the TP or s1 while playing normally with a non-defective mouse.... then you are definitely picking up and placing your mouse in an abnormal way. We actually tried to reproduce accidental clicks with the s1, and it took a very aggressive re-placement motion.

Like I stated before. We have officially deemed this a non-issue.

If you are someone that places your mouse down in an erratic fashion then I can only suggest not purchasing this mouse. It is not for you.

But even for very low sens players the motion for your mouse should be looking not too different than this: S1 In-Action

Now regarding the ghosting issue: We have the new firmware, we made some improvements to release debounce as well to make tapping a bit easier. People will be getting emails from support on either replacements or flashers sometime this week. I believe we are nearly done ensuring our FLASH based firmware updater is stable.

This new FW is revision 1.2

1.2 will also be going into the next batch of units, as well as the future edition units. I can confirm that the future edition units will be coming out shortly after the 1.2 batch of the classic s1.


----------



## Klopfer

sense 1.9 @ 400 CPI .... is for me Mid Sense , not Low Sense ....


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Even if you are lower sens than that it should be a non issue for the majority of people









This is one of those things where we have looked at it and can clearly state the mouse is working 100% as intended, and we could not be any happier with the clicks design. Both mechanically and programming wise (ie. latency)

When designing the TP we played with making the clickers integrated more into the upper shell, and utilizing different industrial design elements that would naturally absorb the click more. We decided a while ago that the individually designed free-feeling clickers were the best.


----------



## fakeusername

Is the firmware update going to be made public, or do people have to email support?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Is the firmware update going to be made public, or do people have to email support?


It's a Dropbox link.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> People will be getting emails from support on either replacements or flashers sometime this week.


Jude...this again...? Again?! Guess I'll wait another week, but this is the last time, if the firmware isn't fixed by the end of this week it's being returned, I cancelled my return for now because I really, really want to like this mouse but I can't use it in this state, it's currently sitting in the packaging which I have never done to any other mouse except one that I sold on eBay...once...


----------



## fakeusername

I bought mine through Amazon to a US proxy and it's in transit to NZ right now. Kind of like the guy from Korea, how do we go about updating?


----------



## ncck

Just some updates on my replacement

Main clicks - good
Side buttons - good
Scroll wheel - mine is damaged/loose, rattle during flicks and if you scroll up/down fast on a webpage it will scroll in the direction you're spinning it then opposite - do it too fast and it will just keep going up/down.. while some would exchange again I won't simply because I don't use the scroll wheel often - I did have it change my gun in CS but that was because I positioned the wheel in a 'meh' position. If I set it straight it shouldn't happen but my wheel is def damaged. No biggie better than a main click not working.

Also here's a video so you know I'm not bsing anything: since I've had two with issues now I think you guys at FM really need to check the facility where it's being made, my first mouse in like 15 years of gaming that had an actual issue was the g403, but now two of these and both have QC issues (and stickers that say QC passed when that can't be the case or else they're being damaged in transit somehow)




You can see when I try to scroll down fast it gets stuck in position or goes back upward


----------



## Alya

Your wheel definitely sounds weird, I wouldn't have any problems with my wheel when doing fast or slow scrolls, and it didn't rattle when I flung the mouse around, the only problem I had with the wheel was sometimes it was so soft and smooth that it'd get stuck between two positions which lead to the next time I touch it causing it to scroll, or when I flicked too hard in a direction the wheel would scroll a step so it ended up back in place.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The TP which has the same clicker design as the s1 is used by some of the lowest sens Pro players in the esports world. Brehze who is currently one of the best up and coming NA cs players is at 1.9 sens at 400 dpi.
> 
> We have never heard a peep out of anyone with the TP about accidental clicks. And we have looked into this issue. If you are accidentally actuating the clicks on the TP or s1 while playing normally with a non-defective mouse.... then you are definitely picking up and placing your mouse in an abnormal way. We actually tried to reproduce accidental clicks with the s1, and it took a very aggressive re-placement motion.
> 
> Like I stated before. We have officially deemed this a non-issue.
> 
> If you are someone that places your mouse down in an erratic fashion then I can only suggest not purchasing this mouse. It is not for you.
> 
> But even for very low sens players the motion for your mouse should be looking not too different than this: S1 In-Action
> 
> Now regarding the ghosting issue: We have the new firmware, we made some improvements to release debounce as well to make tapping a bit easier. People will be getting emails from support on either replacements or flashers sometime this week. I believe we are nearly done ensuring our FLASH based firmware updater is stable.
> 
> This new FW is revision 1.2
> 
> 1.2 will also be going into the next batch of units, as well as the future edition units. I can confirm that the future edition units will be coming out shortly after the 1.2 batch of the classic s1.


well done!!!any news about europe release?do you know if s1 come with firmware update in europe at release?


----------



## Maximillion

_*sigh*_ I'm really on the brink of returning this mouse. In fact, considering what's being told here, it'd seem illogical no to. Once again, I'm left with the feeling of having the beta model of a product.

@FinalmouseJude have you been able to isolate the cause of the "internal rattle" yet? Was this resolved in the "1.2 batch" and "future models"? smh...


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

hate the scroll wheel, and you guys all whine about scroll wheels usually for no reason QQ too many notches etc. S1 is for real bad trhe lack of tactile texture and the rubber being too slipper making it feel like youre scrolling when youre not. But the most annoying thing is the DPI antiglitch coupled with no dpi indicator makes it such a hassle dialing in a sens
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Just some updates on my replacement
> 
> Main clicks - good
> Side buttons - good
> Scroll wheel - mine is damaged/loose, rattle during flicks and if you scroll up/down fast on a webpage it will scroll in the direction you're spinning it then opposite - do it too fast and it will just keep going up/down.. while some would exchange again I won't simply because I don't use the scroll wheel often - I did have it change my gun in CS but that was because I positioned the wheel in a 'meh' position. If I set it straight it shouldn't happen but my wheel is def damaged. No biggie better than a main click not working.
> 
> Also here's a video so you know I'm not bsing anything: since I've had two with issues now I think you guys at FM really need to check the facility where it's being made, my first mouse in like 15 years of gaming that had an actual issue was the g403, but now two of these and both have QC issues (and stickers that say QC passed when that can't be the case or else they're being damaged in transit somehow)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see when I try to scroll down fast it gets stuck in position or goes back upward


holy $h¡t


----------



## SEJB

Every time I'm starting to feel interested Jude speaks out and just blows my mind.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> _*sigh*_ I'm really on the brink of returning this mouse. In fact, considering what's being told here, it'd seem illogical no to. Once again, I'm left with the feeling of having the beta model of a product.
> 
> @FinalmouseJude have you been able to isolate the cause of the "internal rattle" yet? Was this resolved in the "1.2 batch" and "future models"? smh...


Yes we have. It was an injection tolerance issue. Two actually. One was with scroll wheel. (Hard to make sure every wheel fits the same way into every encoder , every once in a while you get an ugly duckling)

Other was a tolerance issue on daughter pcb.

Support will be more than happy to help you with this. And I appreciate everyone's patience with the ghosting bug. We are making sure everyone who was in on this first batch of s1's ends up having a perfect mouse with firmware 1.2. (At no additional expense )

Our support team is making sure they go above and beyond to make sure everyone gets the perfect s1, because that is what the mouse is all about. So if anything is wrong don't hesitate to reach out to support.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> wait a mouse build for esport and signed by scream(low senser fps player) ISN T GOOD FOR LOW SENSER?gj FM


I play low sens and I haven't had a single miss click from lifting the mouse and "slamming" it. While I say slamming I mean lifting the mouse to put it back on the mouse pad in a normal manner, hovering just above the mouse pad when lifting.

Got my replacement mouse and there is no rattle. Buttons seem to be about the same as the previous, which is okay. Still need to test the mouse in game, but so far so good.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> wait a mouse build for esport and signed by scream(low senser fps player) ISN T GOOD FOR LOW SENSER?gj FM


400 CPI @ 2.5 in-game is not low sens at all lmao, I play a lower sensitivity than him even in games that are more fast paced.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Yes we have. It was an injection tolerance issue. Two actually. One was with scroll wheel. (Hard to make sure every wheel fits the same way into every encoder , every once in a while you get an ugly duckling)
> 
> Other was a tolerance issue on daughter pcb.
> 
> Support will be more than happy to help you with this. And I appreciate everyone's patience with the ghosting bug. We are making sure everyone who was in on this first batch of s1's ends up having a perfect mouse with firmware 1.2. (At no additional expense )
> 
> Our support team is making sure they go above and beyond to make sure everyone gets the perfect s1, because that is what the mouse is all about. So if anything is wrong don't hesitate to reach out to support.


So you're saying I should contact support again? I'm not even trolling hence why I made the video but I'm not trying to spread bad word of it. I'm Just actually concerned because the mouse itself is pretty good and a perfect functioning model along with a newer cable in the future and you've actually got a competitor against say zowie fk and do forth. It's obvious this mouse has better tracking and way faster click response just by using it.

Also I did get the mouse to accident fire on rare occasion when lifting, I play about 400 @ 1.7 and when awping very fast (I'm pretty nuts not going to lie) I did place it down and it fired but there was force and I don't consider it abnormal.

I do want this mouse to succeed because at the time despite issues seems to be the only company caring about making a mouse that hits all the marks (everyone else reading even those who complain about this/That even if justified) cannot deny we're pretty much under the bus elsewhere. We've yet to have like a safe ambidex mouse that does everything well and this one is closest IMO (minus cable). Well in reality Logitech got very close and was it for some (with some mods) but yeah.. just rambling

OK so I'll contact support again and see if they can send me something not from Amazon and from a newer batch

edit1: I also ran into my first instance of where pressing both buttons at the same time and one doesn't register, it was on overwatch I'm an avid roadhog user and I hooked someone - held down fire (which makes it so you fire immediately after the hook) and then melee'd, turns out the melee didn't register because I was holding too many buttons down at once. I never thought I'd run into the issue but I guess I did and it's real glad that's being fixed haha

edit2: Contacted support again! :l


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> ...Well in reality Logitech got very close and was it for some (with some mods) but yeah.. just rambling...


Sure did, too bad they screwed up the sides on the Pro for me, FeelsBadMan. I also encountered the firmware bug, but way more often because I hold to zoom and that screwed me up a lot in games like Soldier Front 2 and BF4, I also encountered it quite often when playing Widow (Don't worry though, I'm top 1% in a lot of categories as her! Accept me, love me!)

Yeah, I really hope I don't have to return this mouse because the shape is so so so good and I don't mind the minor QC issues but the firmware bug makes it unusable for me and it breaks my heart because I love the shape, the tracking feels good (enough...) too and it's the only 3360 I can comfortably use. Please FM, PLEASE.


----------



## MFlow

It's been less than 50 hours.
What would Jude say
this weekend? No they have not worked in weekend.
next week?
I would consider a refund if Amazon paid 35$ in shipping


----------



## wareya

Refund and don't order a new one until they fix it.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Refund and don't order a new one until they fix it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Refund and don't order a new one until they fix it.


If so,maybe in the second half of next year? ?


----------



## banZi

Ugh, I just bought (30 min ago) a new S1 through eBay since Amazon won't ship it internationally... Then coming here and reading this thread, this isn't reassuring.

I mostly play H1Z1 and the ghosting issue would be a deal breaker. Is this a problem with all S1's out right now?

Is this new firmware out yet? Anyone flashed it and can confirm its fixed the issue?


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Ugh, I just bought (30 min ago) a new S1 through eBay since Amazon won't ship it internationally... Then coming here and reading this thread, this isn't reassuring.
> 
> I mostly play H1Z1 and the ghosting issue would be a deal breaker. Is this a problem with all S1's out right now?
> 
> Is this new firmware out yet? Anyone flashed it and can confirm its fixed the issue?


Yes all s1s
No new firmware , they said last week , nothing , maybe there will be one thi s week
Maybe you should read before you buy


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xlltt*
> 
> Maybe you should read before you buy


Yeah, good point.


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Ugh, I just bought (30 min ago) a new S1 through eBay since Amazon won't ship it internationally... Then coming here and reading this thread, this isn't reassuring.
> 
> I mostly play H1Z1 and the ghosting issue would be a deal breaker. Is this a problem with all S1's out right now?
> 
> Is this new firmware out yet? Anyone flashed it and can confirm its fixed the issue?


The firmware isn't out yet and no one knows when it's coming. last week finalmouse said it would be this week and now they are saying next week. You never know with finally mouse, good luck!


----------



## m0uz

I know the exact date of the firmware release









ETA: Never


----------



## sirneb

I'm going to return mine. The more I think about it, the more I feel like the S1 is just a defective mouse even though FinalMouse doesn't think so. The issue that affects me the most is the "slamming" defect, yes a defect. I never return any functional mice but this warrens it since I know I won't use the S1 due to the unintentional actuating. Though the actuating issue only happens once in a great while, it tends to always happens when during critical moments where I need a quick 180 degree turn which require a quick swipe and reset. I've tried consciously reset softly but it's kind of ridiculous to have to do that and I can't control this when I need it at the heat of the moment. Personally I don't buy into the whole "it's part of the design process" and FinalMouse accepting that it's "intentional". I don't believe I fall into what they consider as "abnormal" usage either. Anyhow, that's their decision as a company and I can only accept it. As a consumer, I will put in my disagreeing vote by not using their product.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I know the exact date of the firmware release
> 
> ETA: Never


the firmware is done afaik but they are having troubles making a file everyone can download and apply the update - but on their end they can update the mice just fine I guess they have some tool which allows them to update easily

worst case scenario would be they'd have to send everyone a unit they updated / have all future ones sold with the firmware already applied that is if they cannot figure out how to get it to us via a download

So sometime in the future when thats sorted and I have a rubber cable version with every button functioning this mouse will be pretty dope


----------



## popups

So is this firmware issue related to the code that disables the CPI button during motion?

A lot of people are not a fan of a top mounted CPI button that can't be used while the mouse is moving, they rather have that CPI button on the bottom. If there is a top mounted CPI button, I would like to be able to set it to switch between two CPI values.

Why can't they code the MCU to allow a configuration tool?


----------



## ncck

I don't know what other changes are in the firmware, I just know it's to address allowing multiple buttons to be pressed at the same time - if there's anything extra then fm support/jude knows


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I don't know what other changes are in the firmware, I just know it's to address allowing multiple buttons to be pressed at the same time - if there's anything extra then fm support/jude knows


I assume the MCU they use allows for drivers to be used. Maybe they don't want to spend the money on coding.


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why can't they code the MCU to allow a configuration tool?


Because as a small company, this is their first rodeo developing a firmware flasher for end-users, and they're learning as they go. Their inexperience is also evidenced by the standoffish and dismissive stance towards Slamgate. While, as a whole, it's a fairly trivial issue for most end-users (me included), people with business backgrounds know the importance of placating the vocal minority.

This is compounded by the fact that their marketing and sales is driven almost entirely by word of mouth, so not taking an accommodating and diplomatic approach to addressing the defect is customer service suicide. A firmware debounce latency option to stop the slamming might work, but FM hasn't given an indication they're willing to entertain it.

Meanwhile, everywhere you go on social media and community forums, there's overwhelming negativity, spread by only a few very unhappy customers who are going out of their way to make their voices heard.

The Pareto rule strikes again.


----------



## RyuLAN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The TP which has the same clicker design as the s1 is used by some of the lowest sens Pro players in the esports world. Brehze who is currently one of the best up and coming NA cs players is at 1.9 sens at 400 dpi.
> 
> But even for very low sens players the motion for your mouse should be looking not too different than this: S1 In-Action[/URL.


For accuracy, Brehze does not use a FinalMouse and his sensitivity is 2.3 @ 400 DPI in game.

And the video showing the Scream One in use is actually Scream himself using it this weekend at Northern Arena LAN in Montreal.

https://twitter.com/SelflessRyu/status/796731751196459008

-Ryu


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> Because as a small company, this is their first rodeo developing a firmware flasher for end-users, and they're learning as they go. Their inexperience is also evidenced by the standoffish and dismissive stance towards Slamgate. While, as a whole, it's a fairly trivial issue for most end-users (me included), people with business backgrounds know the importance of placating the vocal minority.
> 
> This is compounded by the fact that their marketing and sales is driven almost entirely by word of mouth, so not taking an accommodating and diplomatic approach to addressing the defect is customer service suicide. A firmware debounce latency option to stop the slamming might work, but FM hasn't given an indication they're willing to entertain it.
> 
> Meanwhile, everywhere you go on social media and community forums, there's overwhelming negativity, spread by only a few very unhappy customers who are going out of their way to make their voices heard.
> 
> The Pareto rule strikes again.


wow. just wow.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I assume the MCU they use allows for drivers to be used. Maybe they don't want to spend the money on coding.


From the same line as the one used in the tt volos and theron smart.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

You can actually glitch the Volos to show up as a device that you can you extract or swap the firmware.bin file out.

So yeah I guess they are waiting for mototech to do everything for them while putting on the "we do it all ourselves" front.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

there are two ways to update the firmware. Via flash and via Isp mode. We are working on getting an external isp bootloader as it is a 100% safe way of updating firmware as opposed to flashing.

That is why it is taking longer than expected. Right now to go into isp mode you have to open the mouse. So for those that have waited a long time we are sending our own ISP updated mice our guys did.

And there was an issue with the reinvoke ISP code we used... Which also added a delay. So now we are coding basically a USB shell hack to hack the ram of our own mouse so we can enduce ISP by crashing the mouse in a specific way









Edit: and also the new firmware has 3 total changes. The ghosting fix . An improvement to release debounce logic to make one tapping easier (less occurance of multi bullet firing when tapping)
And the dpi glitch prevention was removed as most people did not like this feature and we agreed it was a bit confusing if someone didn't know about it beforehand.


----------



## Ihateallmice

http://i.imgur.com/qjSIHjA.gifv

It's good that you sold them before fixing these things. You almost got careless and released a finish product for once. Phew, way to sidestep that landmine.


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> ....to make one tapping easier


----------



## reticle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> there are two ways to update the firmware. Via flash and via Isp mode. We are working on getting an external isp bootloader as it is a 100% safe way of updating firmware as opposed to flashing.
> 
> That is why it is taking longer than expected. Right now to go into isp mode you have to open the mouse. So for those that have waited a long time we are sending our own ISP updated mice our guys did.
> 
> And there was an issue with the reinvoke ISP code we used... Which also added a delay. So now we are coding basically a USB shell hack to hack the ram of our own mouse so we can enduce ISP by crashing the mouse in a specific way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: and also the new firmware has 3 total changes. The ghosting fix . An improvement to release debounce logic to make one tapping easier (less occurance of multi bullet firing when tapping)
> And the dpi glitch prevention was removed as most people did not like this feature and we agreed it was a bit confusing if someone didn't know about it beforehand.


So to those of use who bought the mouse we should be expecting a updated mouse from you? We will not be able to update the mouse ourselves?

The current mouse selling on Amazon right now is not updated, correct?

I guess I am kind of stuck on what do here. Do I get an updated mouse? Would be able to update my mouse and if so, when? Do I return the mouse to Amazon?


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> there are two ways to update the firmware. Via flash and via Isp mode. We are working on getting an external isp bootloader as it is a 100% safe way of updating firmware as opposed to flashing.
> 
> That is why it is taking longer than expected. Right now to go into isp mode you have to open the mouse. So for those that have waited a long time we are sending our own ISP updated mice our guys did.
> 
> And there was an issue with the reinvoke ISP code we used... Which also added a delay. So now we are coding basically a USB shell hack to hack the ram of our own mouse so we can enduce ISP by crashing the mouse in a specific way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: and also the new firmware has 3 total changes. The ghosting fix . An improvement to release debounce logic to make one tapping easier (less occurance of multi bullet firing when tapping)
> And the dpi glitch prevention was removed as most people did not like this feature and we agreed it was a bit confusing if someone didn't know about it beforehand.


Should of added it in the manual. I liked the idea of DPI glitch prevention.


----------



## m0uz

"We are taking our time to make sure it's perfect... 3 years after it's released... when the warranty runs out"


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Should of added it in the manual. I liked the idea of DPI glitch prevention.


Most people don't want to stop moving the mouse to change CPI.


----------



## MFlow

That's not a proud thing to say.
S1 is not college graduation project.
Hire a talented person, do not spare the money.
Customers are experiencing inconvenience.
It's not time to laugh.

SkyDigital in Korea is also a medium-sized company and is notorious for its bad qc, but its post-processing is very fast.
They support exchange, refund firmware and even software that was not in the plan.
It took three days to fix the problem that their product had with firmware.


----------



## Rooslin

Very excited for the mouse, cant wait to get one for my self. (who is selling in Canada?)


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Your in denial, thats your problem.
> Ofcourse its a design fault. How can you not accept that? Ive never experienced or even seen such before and I have owned over 15 mice.
> And the average sens for pro's in CSGO is 46,2cm.
> Its also pretty logical that a guy who uses 45cm or more for a 360 will most likly have to lift the mice rather frequently. With your sens you probably dont use your arm alot either.
> You also have to take into consideration how hard their pad is.
> 
> Oh well... I guess the S1 is "not for people with low sens"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/q
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The TP which has the same clicker design as the s1 is used by some of the lowest sens Pro players in the esports world. Brehze who is currently one of the best up and coming NA cs players is at 1.9 sens at 400 dpi.
> 
> We have never heard a peep out of anyone with the TP about accidental clicks. And we have looked into this issue. If you are accidentally actuating the clicks on the TP or s1 while playing normally with a non-defective mouse.... then you are definitely picking up and placing your mouse in an abnormal way. We actually tried to reproduce accidental clicks with the s1, and it took a very aggressive re-placement motion.
> 
> Like I stated before. We have officially deemed this a non-issue.
> 
> If you are someone that places your mouse down in an erratic fashion then I can only suggest not purchasing this mouse. It is not for you.
> 
> But even for very low sens players the motion for your mouse should be looking not too different than this: S1 In-Action
> 
> Now regarding the ghosting issue: We have the new firmware, we made some improvements to release debounce as well to make tapping a bit easier. People will be getting emails from support on either replacements or flashers sometime this week. I believe we are nearly done ensuring our FLASH based firmware updater is stable.
> 
> This new FW is revision 1.2
> 
> 1.2 will also be going into the next batch of units, as well as the future edition units. I can confirm that the future edition units will be coming out shortly after the 1.2 batch of the classic s1.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean more delay in buttons?
Click to expand...


----------



## Jonagold

People complaining non-existing problems and ruining the mouse. Button delay incoming..

Now I understand why all the mice has tons of smoothing and horrible click latency, welcome to fat finger mouse throwing casual gamer level..


----------



## chr1spe

Lol, maybe try to figure out what is actually being said before you have a hissy fit. It really sounds like what they are doing is lowering the release delay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> An improvement to release debounce logic to make one tapping easier (less occurance of multi bullet firing when tapping)


Only make sense if that is what they are doing. You can accidentally fire a second shot even on a fairly short tap if there is enough release delay. AFAIK no one has tested either the click or release delay on this mouse yet though.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Lol, maybe try to figure out what is actually being said before you have a hissy fit. It really sounds like what they are doing is lowering the release delay.
> Only make sense if that is what they are doing. You can accidentally fire a second shot even on a fairly short tap if there is enough release delay. AFAIK no one has tested either the click or release delay on this mouse yet though.


Lets hope they just shorten the debounce release delay without adding any initial delay.. The problem is that certain amount of total delay is needed in order to eliminate all the bouncing, if there is less release delay, they might need to add some initial delay or the bouncing might happen after delay and cause a double-click..

We have too many bad examples, basically every other mice.. Even Logitech







If this mouse will get initial button delay I will go for Logitech no hesitation because there would be no advantage over G Pro anymore..


----------



## zackowns

Some guys selling one on ebay if yall are interested i just seen the posting.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zackowns*
> 
> Some guys selling one on ebay if yall are interested i just seen the posting.


Definitely wouldn't buy finalmouse second hand. You want to maintain warranty with them.


----------



## zackowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Definitely wouldn't buy finalmouse second hand. You want to maintain warranty with them.


Your wrong I wrote support at final mouse they didnt even ask for an amazon order # just sent me a new one


----------



## SEJB

Hmm maybe I should try that.


----------



## ncck

My third FM is arriving today. Unfortunately from Amazon batch again so let the dice roll! Really hope I get a working one. Not going to bother with support if this one is no good and just wait for a new revision or whatever


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rooslin*
> 
> Very excited for the mouse, cant wait to get one for my self. (who is selling in Canada?)


Posts like this are mind boggling to me.

I'm convinced Finalmouse can literally fill a box with cow manure and people will happily buy it, lol.


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Posts like this are mind boggling to me.
> 
> I'm convinced Finalmouse can literally fill a box with cow manure and people will happily buy it, lol.


Why is it mind boggling?

The shape and size looks to be my style, and uses a very good sensor.

The problems:
1. registering clicks when raising the mouse on and off the mouse pad
- so far I have seen conflicting reports on this and will see for myself

2. cannot press multiple buttons at once
-This is a firmware issue and will be fixed

3. braided calbe/non-braided cable
-this is preference and I don't care how the cable is done

the only thing I dont really like is the dpi button on the top of the mouse, though I never had an issue with a top dpi button on other mice so it's not a deal breaker.


----------



## ncck

Haven't used it but third times the charm - looks like my 3rd model has no glaring issues (without plugging it in) main difference I notice is that the side buttons when I press the m5, the m4 doesn't move (both are separate) meanwhile on my broken scroll wheel model if I press M5, the M4 moves a little (no actuation) shook it a little and heard no rattle plus all clicks felt normal and no skate damage

So not going to use it yet but I believe I finally got a 'perfect' model.. wooho!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rooslin*
> 
> The problems:
> 1. registering clicks when raising the mouse on and off the mouse pad
> - so far I have seen conflicting reports on this and will see for myself
> 
> .


A vast majority of the people complaining about the mouse clicks when slamming never plan to buy the mouse, and have never used it.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> A vast majority of the people complaining about the mouse clicks when slamming never plan to buy the mouse, and have never used it.


That seems like quite an exaggeration. There have been several people with the mouse complaining about it.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That seems like quite an exaggeration. There have been several people with the mouse complaining about it.


I've been following the thread from the beginning. Aside from myself, I don't know how many that actually used the S1. He might have a point.

But that said, I can't imagine that this problem only affects me during actual gameplay. And no, I don't think I have a "defective" mouse by FinalMouse's standard since I had tried a second S1. The actuation force required to trigger the issue is the same, the second one actually had a mousewheel rattle but whatever.


----------



## Fluxify

Is this an ergonomic or ambidextrous mouse?


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Is this an ergonomic or ambidextrous mouse?


Ambidextrous but the side buttons are only on the left side.


----------



## t3ram

You have to smash the mouse realy hard (atleast mine) that this issue appears
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> A vast majority of the people complaining about the mouse clicks when slamming never plan to buy the mouse, and have never used it.


----------



## equlix

Any replacement feet recommendations for this mouse? I'm going to replace the cable but idk if ie3.0 feet are the best option.


----------



## a_ak57

Honestly, I have the feeling the discrepancies with the slam-click problem comes down to shoddy QA. I mean, their other mice weren't exactly known for consistent quality, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if a number of people have mice that are fine and need a legitimate slam to actuate while others have poorly made mice that can actuate from a low-senser putting it down after a swipe in the air. That'd also fall in line with Jude's comments about it not happening on the mice they have around, because presumably they aren't keeping/using their own rejects. It reminds me of the mouse wheel rattle with the G403, where some people had wheels that would rattle with normal side-to-side movement while others had to shake the mouse really hard to get the wheel shaking.


----------



## ncck

So my third replacement is finally a model without any apparent issue which is good cause I can review it. I did however notice another 'bug' or glitch whatever. If you use the scroll wheel and scroll downward fast it will activate a scroll up during the rotation - I doubt anyone would be scrolling that fast in a game but in web browsing I guess it could annoy some. Regardless just a little bug I noticed


----------



## fakeusername

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So my third replacement is finally a model without any apparent issue which is good cause I can review it. I did however notice another 'bug' or glitch whatever. If you use the scroll wheel and scroll downward fast it will activate a scroll up during the rotation - I doubt anyone would be scrolling that fast in a game but in web browsing I guess it could annoy some. Regardless just a little bug I noticed


Mine also does this. I can provide a video if you like.

Except I had to pay closer to $135 USD including fastest shipping to a US address, then to me.

I don't think that there's anything Finalmouse can do about this though. I really like the mouse, I usually use a G303 and this is the only other mouse I've found which I'd consider replacing it with (tried DM1 Pro S, Revel, ZA13, ZA12, EC2A, Rival 300, Deathadder Chroma, G900, G502). I mean, I don't need to tell this forum why the G303 reigns. It's too early for me to make any calls though.

Jude, can we get some confirmation on whether the new firmware flash will fix anything other than the ghosting issue, or is it specifically just for the ghosting issue?


----------



## t3ram

They say that the new firmware should fix this


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> They say that the new firmware should fix this... if they ever release it


FTFY


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> You have to smash the mouse realy hard (atleast mine) that this issue appears


interesting, does it actuate if you drop it down flat ~ 1 inch? Both of mine did.


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> interesting, does it actuate if you drop it down flat ~ 1 inch? Both of mine did.


That is pretty high drop, I recommend you to watch how pro players use their mice and learn. You are not supposed to let off the mouse while lifting.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> That is pretty high drop, I recommend you to watch how pro players use their mice and learn. You are not supposed to let off the mouse while lifting.


Not sure what you're defending even my perfect model actuated on a lift that wasn't even crazy, just picked it up and swung to opposite side of my pad. Of course it's a rare event but it can happen. Even if only once in six hours


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Not sure what you're defending even my perfect model actuated on a lift that wasn't even crazy, just picked it up and swung to opposite side of my pad. Of course it's a rare event but it can happen. Even if only once in six hours


That's exactly my experience. Though it can happen more often if that exact situation keeps happening, I'm sure it matters greatly what type of games and sensitivity you are playing on.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> That is pretty high drop, I recommend you to watch how pro players use their mice and learn. You are not supposed to let off the mouse while lifting.


I'm pretty sure he was asking that to see if it took approximately the same amount of force to cause the problem to occur. Obviously people aren't dropping their mouse while playing. I think you need to stop getting so hyper defensive of a mouse you have said you don't even own.


----------



## dakuzo

lol. just can't get it right.


----------



## Bucake

typical FM message
from the lab
from our scientists!!1
we contacted our engineer xXFinnalMuzeXx from NASA and he personally dedicated his expensive time to fix your maus


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> lol. just can't get it right.


Oh, ffs FM


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Wheres the new firmware DL I dont want to hunt back 50 pages for a link and I didnt see any big note on their website for it either.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommando Kodiak*
> 
> Wheres the new firmware DL I dont want to hunt back 50 pages for a link and I didnt see any big note on their website for it either.


external flasher isn't out yet.


----------



## popups

So you can only tap 1 button at a time? No wonder Scream doesn't have an issue with it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

lol "our lab"


----------



## kashim

they have released firmware fix?any update for europe shipping?or i gonna buy dm pro 1s/nixeus revel?


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> lol. just can't get it right.


I love this thread so much. Hands down the best overclock thread 2016. I award it Thread of the Year.


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> they have released firmware fix?any update for europe shipping?or i gonna buy dm pro 1s/nixeus revel?


Don't bother with FM dude, go with the DM1 Pro S or the Revel, you will be glad you did.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Don't say that, I'm sure the next batch of scream 1 will be perfect.


----------



## shaiaz

I can hold mouse2 and still click mouse1, couldn't do that a week ago so maybe they flashed it for me


----------



## Alya

Gave them the extra week they asked for, no firmware update, that's a surprise. Returning to Amazon and then I'll just buy another Kinzu v1 (or 2 Kinzu v1s







)


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Gave them the extra week they asked for, no firmware update, that's a surprise. Returning to Amazon and then I'll just buy another Kinzu v1 (or 2 Kinzu v1s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


u suggest me to wait?omg updated video is so ridiculus man :S,,,They have solved a problem but have come out another thousand no words....I'm really shocked


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> interesting, does it actuate if you drop it down flat ~ 1 inch? Both of mine did.


i can test it on friday
if all the problems weren't there this would be a perfect mouse for me, light, a good size and nice buttons.
i really don't know what they did the half year after they anounced it....


----------



## banZi

Havent received mine yet, Its currently on its way over the pond to EU land.

Regret this purchase so much now. I expected this firmware update to fix all issues and take 72 hours max, with a working link for all Scream owners. Its honestly such a game breaking function they cant take their sweet ass time on that.
They want to make sure its working correctly? Yeah, thats fine, but you should've done that before you shipped a broken mouse. Whoever is creating this firmware update needs to work overtime. It needs to be perfect. Introducing the same flaw with different buttons is unforgivable.

I still cant belive a mouse company never caught this issue before they started shipping. Did no one actually play with this mouse before they gave the go ahead?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> i can test it on friday
> if all the problems weren't there this would be a perfect mouse for me, light, a good size and nice buttons.
> i really don't know what they did the half year after they anounced it....


Ya.. apart from all the problems, S1 is the best mouse I've used in terms of comfort, shape and performance. At one point, I thought I found the perfect mouse. It's just so depressing.


----------



## Maximillion

I returned mine as well. this company is a joke, I can't "support" them. I just can't.

heck, I'd buy two more Revel's out of shear principal before trying another FM.

anyway, money should be back in my acct just in time for black friday


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Regret this purchase so much now. *I expected this firmware update to fix all issues and take 72 hours max*, with a working link for all Scream owners. Its honestly such a game breaking function they cant take their sweet ass time on that.
> They want to make sure its working correctly? Yeah, thats fine, but you should've done that before you shipped a broken mouse. Whoever is creating this firmware update needs to work overtime. It needs to be perfect. Introducing the same flaw with different buttons is unforgivable.
> 
> I still cant belive a mouse company never caught this issue before they started shipping. Did no one actually play with this mouse before they gave the go ahead?


The mouse was delayed for 8/9 months or something like that and you expect them to fix a flaw in 72 hours?









This was kind of enjoyable though. https://twitter.com/JoshNissan/status/801114683356782592


----------



## Dasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> lol. just can't get it right.


lol pure comedy.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> lol "our lab"


----------



## Hunched

Zowie where are you at. Where's my EC2-A with a 3360, improved thumb buttons and click latency.
When does that BenQ money start showing?

Still a better mouse than everything else released in 2016.


----------



## subsoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Zowie where are you at. Where's my EC2-A with a 3360, improved thumb buttons and click latency.
> When does that BenQ money start showing?
> 
> Still a better mouse than everything else released in 2016.


I really pray they come out with the same shapes just with an updated sensor and some decent click latency for a high end gaming mouse not 7-9ms


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Still a better mouse than everything else released in 2016.


How is EC2-A better than g403 which afaik you dont even own? Bashing the g403 just because the vocal minority does, is silly. EC2-A has some of the worst side buttons and wheel put on a premium priced "gaming" mouse, that combined with main button overtravel and too thin mouse feet is better than everything else released in 2016? Give me a break


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subsoul*
> 
> I really pray they come out with the same shapes just with an updated sensor and some decent click latency for a high end gaming mouse not 7-9ms


Same. Better thumb buttons too.
Also reduced weight of course which is always welcome.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> How is EC2-A better than g403 which afaik you dont even own? Bashing the g403 just because the vocal minority does, is silly. EC2-A has some of the worst side buttons and wheel put on a premium priced "gaming" mouse, that combined with main button overtravel and too thin mouse feet is better than everything else released in 2016? Give me a break


The cable is better.
The scroll wheel is better (which shows you just how bad the G403 wheel is)
The feet are better.
The shape is better (to me).
The build quality is better, way less reports and chance of rattling scroll wheels, sensors, and vastly uneven M1 & M2 clicks.

If you're saying G403 feet are better than Zowie feet, that's hilarious just how deep the Logitech blindness can go.
It's not even close to being subjective with that, unless you like trash.
The G403 feet are objectively terrible, but you could be into that.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Same. Better thumb buttons too.
> Also reduced weight of course which is always welcome.
> The cable is better.
> The scroll wheel is better (which shows you just how bad the G403 wheel is)
> The feet are better.
> The shape is better (to me).
> The build quality is better, way less reports and chance of rattling scroll wheels, sensors, and vastly uneven M1 & M2 clicks.
> 
> If you're saying G403 feet are better than Zowie feet, that's hilarious just how deep the Logitech blindness can go.
> It's not even close to being subjective with that, unless you like trash.
> The G403 feet are objectively terrible, but you could be into that.


+1!!!logitech feet sucks


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Same. Better thumb buttons too.
> Also reduced weight of course which is always welcome.
> The cable is better.
> The scroll wheel is better (which shows you just how bad the G403 wheel is)
> The feet are better.
> The shape is better (to me).
> The build quality is better, way less reports and chance of rattling scroll wheels, sensors, and vastly uneven M1 & M2 clicks.
> 
> If you're saying G403 feet are better than Zowie feet, that's hilarious just how deep the Logitech blindness can go.
> It's not even close to being subjective with that, unless you like trash.
> The G403 feet are objectively terrible, but you could be into that.


OMG FEET. You can replace them for 5$. Also nothing is worse than zowies scroll wheels in my experience. I haven't even had a 5$ office mouse with a worse scroll wheel.


----------



## arcrox

I'll just leave these two links here.
https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ThoughtfulTurtleBrainSlug
https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/SmoggyMosquitoWutFace


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I'll just leave these two links here.
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ThoughtfulTurtleBrainSlug
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/SmoggyMosquitoWutFace


Not the mouse's fault, there's so many clips on /r/GlobalOffensive of him literally throwing his mouse around and slamming it against his desk, so it's no surprise the mouse broke, he should stop throwing his peripherals around like a manchild.


----------



## hammelgammler

Could someone tell me the weight without cable of it?








Oh, and please release it in Europe finally (with fixed firmware of course). It just seems so perfect in terms of shape for me.

PS: If there's anyone in Europe who wants to sell his normal Tournament Pro, please write me a PM!


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> OMG FEET. You can replace them for 5$. Also nothing is worse than zowies scroll wheels in my experience. I haven't even had a 5$ office mouse with a worse scroll wheel.


So the G403 was unusable until mouse feet for it came out months later?
Then if you want a cable that isn't garbage you have to order one and open it up and replace it?
Then if you want to fix your rattling scroll wheel you have to open it and fix that too.

Fun. Logitech DIY mouse kit = G403.

Zowie's scroll wheel is superior solely on the basis it doesn't smash around the mouse shell/chassis like a loose rock when I move it.
My Zowie is silent when I shake it, this is like a miracle with mice so far this year.
Nobody knows how to not have loose scroll wheels or sensors anymore suddenly, it's weird.

I don't want my mouse to simulate a pocket full of coins when I move it, loose crap smashing everyone, it's damn annoying and Logitech seem to be masters of it.

There is nothing good about the G403 except of its sensor, which is available to everyone now as the 3360 so who cares about them.
Nixeus and Dream Machines mice rival or exceed Logitech quality and they're brand new to the game and barely have a clue.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I'll just leave these two links here.
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ThoughtfulTurtleBrainSlug
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/SmoggyMosquitoWutFace


i think that could happen to any mouse if it's treated by some generic angry gamer


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> So the G403 was unusable until mouse feet for it came out months later?
> Then if you want a cable that isn't garbage you have to order one and open it up and replace it?
> Then if you want to fix your rattling scroll wheel you have to open it and fix that too.
> 
> Fun. Logitech DIY mouse kit = G403.
> 
> Zowie's scroll wheel is superior solely on the basis it doesn't smash around the mouse shell/chassis like a loose rock when I move it.
> My Zowie is silent when I shake it, this is like a miracle with mice so far this year.
> Nobody knows how to not have loose scroll wheels or sensors anymore suddenly, it's weird.
> 
> I don't want my mouse to simulate a pocket full of coins when I move it, loose crap smashing everyone, it's damn annoying and Logitech seem to be masters of it.
> 
> There is nothing good about the G403 except of its sensor, which is available to everyone now as the 3360 so who cares about them.
> Nixeus and Dream Machines mice rival or exceed Logitech quality and they're brand new to the game and barely have a clue.


So the revel which also had feet issues, has click issues, had smoothing, and some other problems is better than the g403 that had a couple issues? Also you don't have to use feet for the model of mouse you have. You can just put on some old logitech or microsoft hyperglides. Also cables are fussed about far too much. Just mount the cable well and its fine. A bad cable mounted well feels better than a good cable mounted poorly and most people mount their cables pretty poorly. I haven't owned a g403, but I'd be extremely surprised if the mouse wheel issue is even half as common as people make it out to be. Everyone acts like every g303, g pro, and g403 has issues, but I've had 2 g303s with zero issues and the only g pro I've tried didn't have any issues. I'd take a stock g303 or g pro over any zowie any day. Also they cost 1/2 to 1/3 the price if you wait for a decent deal. Both my g303s have been 25$ and I'll be picking up a g pro for 35$ this week.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> +1!!!logitech feet sucks


Zowie fee suck too. They do feel better that Logitech, but they wear out really fast. Probably why they give you an extra set. I was scraping my FK1 after the first two weeks, lol. Hyperflide on my FK1 are so nice though. Had them on for over a year and they still feel great.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> Zowie where are you at. Where's my EC2-A with a 3360, improved thumb buttons and click latency.
> *When does that BenQ money start showing?*
> 
> Still a better mouse than everything else released in 2016.


THIS needs its own thread.. u know, just to make a little of a pressing/noise or whatever, like a summary of what they need to change/improve in their mouse models. Seems like Zowie only engage through Facebook tho


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> So the G403 was unusable until mouse feet for it came out months later?
> Then if you want a cable that isn't garbage you have to order one and open it up and replace it?
> Then if you want to fix your rattling scroll wheel you have to open it and fix that too.
> 
> Fun. Logitech DIY mouse kit = G403.
> 
> Zowie's scroll wheel is superior solely on the basis it doesn't smash around the mouse shell/chassis like a loose rock when I move it.
> My Zowie is silent when I shake it, this is like a miracle with mice so far this year.


my second hand ZA12 begs to differ, scrolling feels terrible compared to the g403 wheel ( 1631 batch - zero rattling )
it is not "silent" when shaking it around either.

I wouldn't call the G403 a " logitech DIY kit " stock cable is very good ( more flexible than the ones found in the latest benq-zowie iteration ) if you take the time and debraid it yourself
feet are OK, not hyperglide level but they do the job if you're not very picky about stiction ( sadly, I am







) my only real gripe with this is mouse is the off center and angled position on the sensor port, takes a lot of getting used to before feeling confident with your flicking again !

that being said i have shelved my g403 until hyperglides come out, zowie mice are pretty reliable "plan B" mice since you can get hyperglides for almost every model out there.


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I'll just leave these two links here.
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/ThoughtfulTurtleBrainSlug
> https://clips.twitch.tv/steel_tv/SmoggyMosquitoWutFace


I'll just leave this link here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6xdky6z2jg


----------



## ncck

I had mine malfunction twice today, not sure what caused it but appeared to be on a very fast swipe - I did just open a new qck heavy so it's not 100% flat on the right side maybe the random elevation threw it off. Anyway doesn't appear to be consistent or anything


----------



## t3ram

i think i will use a g303 until the problems get fixed ;P


----------



## end0rphine

Anyone have some extra information about the updated firmware, or acknowledgement of the new issues? Kinda thought an update was supposed to be released this week. I get the feeling these problems can't be fixed due to their current implementation of polling.


----------



## banZi

Received mine today, has all pretty much all the issues thats been brought up, except the M4\5 stops the rest of the mouse.
This is from the second batch from Amazon. It has a QC pass sticker underneath, lol.
I can get LButton to activate by slamming it down. It has to be hard though, so not going to be an issue for me ever.

Playing H1Z1 and RButton then LButton works, but it spazzes out after a few fast clicks and stops working so Its pretty much useless in that game. Scroll wheel has a slight rattle if I shake it, but It feels great in use and I dont think I would've noticed it If It wasnt something I was looking for after reading through this thread
.
The shape of the mouse is fantastic, sensor should be good.

Now its just that firmware update that was supposed to be out... 2 weeks ago? I cant return the mouse, imported it and live across the pond.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Anyone have some extra information about the updated firmware, or acknowledgement of the new issues? Kinda thought an update was supposed to be released this week. I get the feeling these problems can't be fixed due to their current implementation of polling.


need more infooo tooo


----------



## ncck

Welp bad news. My perfect model now has a double-click which occurs every so often on the LMB. Just noticed it when trying to check FB notifications they kept opening and closing - I thought it was a problem with flash player or the browser but just kept single-clicking steam and eventually it opened cause it registered a double click. Checked in paint to confirm making dots and it made double dots every few clicks.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Welp bad news. My perfect model now has a double-click which occurs every so often on the LMB. Just noticed it when trying to check FB notifications they kept opening and closing - I thought it was a problem with flash player or the browser but just kept single-clicking steam and eventually it opened cause it registered a double click. Checked in paint to confirm making dots and it made double dots every few clicks.


Clearly you are just using the mouse incorrectly as the debouncing has been fine tuned to perfection for esports athletes









Honestly though can you figure out what type of clicks cause it? With logitech's debouncing I can actually make my g303 double click around 50% of the time with a certain short click. This is because the click is very short and I think the switch may still be bouncing from the initial press when the click is registered which causes it to start checking for a release. Then when I actually release it makes it so the release is confirmed from the initial bouncing even though I only released it very recently. Then because of the short debouncing for clicks it registers another press due to the bouncing that happens on release. It would be very hard to 100% prevent that from happening if the click is a very specific timing and it has caused a couple miss-buys in cs, but once I got used to it I realized I can control it and prevent it from happening just by not clicking the button quite as lightly.

That may completely not be the case for your mouse, but it would be good to test if it is.


----------



## ncck

Mine wasn't any type of click, I tried moving my finger to different parts of the button to try and use less or more force and it just appeared to be happening consistently - at one point I had it double click like 6 times in a row. Unlucky


----------



## t3ram

"The flasher is currently being finalized " and i got an offer for a black edition scream1?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> "The flasher is currently being finalized " and i got an offer for a black edition scream1?


You have a S1 in Germany?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> You have a S1 in Germany?


Yeah but it was realy expensive ^^


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Yeah but it was realy expensive ^^


So they're willing to ship the mouse internationally even though its not available internationally? Kinda curious since my S1 is starting to double click sometimes, or even lose click after holding it down.


----------



## t3ram

No i dont think so.
I`ve bought it via eb.y


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> No i dont think so.
> I`ve bought it via eb.y


Ah well. A black S1 sounds interesting though. Would be very interested if they released an all matte plastic version like the deathadder or Ducky secret. Loved those surfaces.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> "The flasher is currently being finalized " and i got an offer for a black edition scream1?


You mean a tournament pro? Be careful


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> You mean a tournament pro? Be careful


Nah i dont mean the pro i mean the s1


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Nah i dont mean the pro i mean the s1


Ah well. I haven't heard of it. But I've gotten 3 defective S1s now so that's basically end of the line for me. Best of luck!


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Mine wasn't any type of click, I tried moving my finger to different parts of the button to try and use less or more force and it just appeared to be happening consistently - at one point I had it double click like 6 times in a row. Unlucky


You could give it a try
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> For a software solution or rather workaround, I think X-Mouse Button Control might work.
> 
> It has this in the advanced options
> 
> 
> The better way obviously would be to fix the problem.


Also you could try this http://www.yorku.ca/nmw/datt1939f15/javascript_all/js_timebetweenclicks.html

Would be a good opportunity to get more feedback if this even handles these kinds of issues.

It's probably your best bet for the time being anyway, until you get a replacement


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Nah i dont mean the pro i mean the s1


can u send me a pm for buy it?i live in italy and wan to buy it


----------



## fakeusername

Why does my DM 1 Pro S feel so different to this mouse? They are using the same sensor, right? DM made me think I was using a higher DPI.


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Why does my DM 1 Pro S feel so different to this mouse? They are using the same sensor, right? DM made me think I was using a higher DPI.


The difference could be due to a number of things. Difference in weight, shape, Glide on the mousepad, Difference in cables making one easier to move than the other. Possibly the difference in the sensor distance to the mousepad. I don't know much about the specifications of the DM mouse so some of these may or may not apply.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Why does my DM 1 Pro S feel so different to this mouse? They are using the same sensor, right? DM made me think I was using a higher DPI.


Did you actually meadure the DPI. These mice usually aren't very accurate about their dpi steps so it could actually be a higher dpi. Unless the sensor is exactly the same height from the pad you will get different dpi.


----------



## miranavoo

anyone has any news regarding the updated firmware?


----------



## kashim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2fwyhfKfOQ


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miranavoo*
> 
> anyone has any news regarding the updated firmware?


no news. The firmware is done but finalmouse is having problems figuring our how they're going to flash the already purchased mice.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We have figured out how to flash current mice and firmware is done. And we have a newer 1.3 update as well to fix any remaining side button issues.

Updates will come this week.


----------



## SynergyCB

If I decide to buy this mouse in a month or two, will the future models have these updates installed?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> no news. The firmware is done but finalmouse is having problems figuring our how they're going to flash the already purchased mice.


I think they sent out a few flashed mice as RMA and a few more issues popped up.


----------



## Dreyka

Remember when Finalmouse was talking about not having firmware updates for the Scream One. How it was meant to be this "perfect" mouse out of the box. Turns out that having mice that can't be firmware updated (like Zowie can't) is a really bad idea. Good luck to the next wave of $70 beta testers.


----------



## m0uz

inb4 the S1's are one-time flashable

Edit: Should've been called the ScreamOnce


----------



## kashim

when they annunced this mouse i war really happy to buy it when released...now don t know if is worth or is better buy dm1 pro s/nixeus revel or some mouse like that


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Why does my DM 1 Pro S feel so different to this mouse? They are using the same sensor, right? DM made me think I was using a higher DPI.


Because DM 1 Pro S has stuctural problems causing lense to drop lower off its position, increasing effective dpi.. You can try to press the bottom of the mouse upwards (pressing the mouse on the middle) causing lense to get on its correct position and making dpi steps accurate..


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Did you actually meadure the DPI. These mice usually aren't very accurate about their dpi steps so it could actually be a higher dpi. Unless the sensor is exactly the same height from the pad you will get different dpi.


The bottom of DM1 pro S -shell has a crack in the middle causing lense to lay too low.. If you manage to make the lense to stay on its place up next to the sensor either by pressing the middle to move the lense or open the mouse and fix it with glue or something, you will get actually very accurate dpi steps..

I have 2 DM1 Pro S and I will get corrected dpi steps when I pull the mouse in the middle but over time the lense drops down again causing dpi steps to go higher than normal.. Tested against other mice (Zowie ZA12, DA Chroma and G303) with the Mouse Comparator -software.. Unfortunately I have disconnection problems with both of DM1 Pro S so I have to send them back to get (hopefully) a working one..


----------



## Jonagold

Could someone do button latency comparison for M1 and M2 buttons against some popular mice, please?


----------



## kevinnz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lq8BLZ1BnM

firmware flash doesn't fix mouse properly


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> ...And we have a newer 1.3 update as well to fix any remaining side button issues.
> 
> Updates will come this week.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lq8BLZ1BnM
> 
> firmware flash doesn't fix mouse properly


Sounds like there is newer firmware version than the one demonstrated in that video.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We have figured out how to flash current mice and firmware is done. And we have a newer 1.3 update as well to fix any remaining side button issues.
> 
> Updates will come this week.


Where can i download it?
Does fm not make the firmware executable?
What should overseas customers do?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Where can i download it?
> Does fm not make the firmware executable?
> What should overseas customers do?


It's not available yet.


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinnz*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lq8BLZ1BnM
> 
> firmware flash doesn't fix mouse properly


So it's almost been a month and no fix yet?


----------



## e4stw00t

At least they are consistent on their post launch support with how they handled the launch in the first place


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> So it's almost been a month and no fix yet?


The mouse wasn't ready to be released. Just think of those who got it as testers who paid to test. They needed a larger sample size before release and as a result they ended up where they ended up


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> The mouse wasn't ready to be released. Just think of those who got it as testers who paid to test. They needed a larger sample size before release and as a result they ended up where they ended up


Probably more so their sample was biased.


----------



## banZi

this is getting ridiculous, where's the flasher FM? Im sitting here with a brand new $80 plastic shell


----------



## v0rtex-SI

MFW when people expect FM to do whatever they promised they will


----------



## badben25

Boys, can I have some actual click latency figures? Pretty please.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> Boys, can I have some actual click latency figures? Pretty please.


They're somewhere in this thread, aprox 1ms faster than logitechs new lineup?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> this is getting ridiculous, where's the flasher FM? Im sitting here with a brand new $80 plastic shell


They said the update will come this week and the week is not over yet


----------



## fakeusername

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> The bottom of DM1 pro S -shell has a crack in the middle causing lense to lay too low.. If you manage to make the lense to stay on its place up next to the sensor either by pressing the middle to move the lense or open the mouse and fix it with glue or something, you will get actually very accurate dpi steps..
> 
> I have 2 DM1 Pro S and I will get corrected dpi steps when I pull the mouse in the middle but over time the lense drops down again causing dpi steps to go higher than normal.. Tested against other mice (Zowie ZA12, DA Chroma and G303) with the Mouse Comparator -software.. Unfortunately I have disconnection problems with both of DM1 Pro S so I have to send them back to get (hopefully) a working one..


never heard of this, doesn't it use the same shell as the steelseries sensei? so wouldn't this mean that the nixeus revel has this issue too?


----------



## kashim

then revel and dm1 pro s have both a lot of problems and is better wait for scream one fix?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> They said the update will come this week and the week is not over yet


I wouldn't hold my breath on that. This was like the fourth estimate given.


----------



## kashim

jude any news about europe release?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> then revel and dm1 pro s have both a lot of problems and is better wait for scream one fix?


if you can wait you should wait imo the finalmouse is way better than the dm1 pro s


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> jude any news about europe release?


Honestly I'd rather wait until the mouse has reached a usable state and isn't an 80 usd paperweight.


----------



## popups

Right now you would only buy the FinalMouse Scream One to keep if you are a total fanboy.

I was thinking of buying one right now because I know I can return it because it will be bugged on delivery. So I can try it out without losing anything. That would be better than trying to get FinalMouse to give me a mouse.


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> They said the update will come this week and the week is not over yet


Friday, guess we can exepect a working mouse later today...?


----------



## end0rphine

Welp I guess next week it is then


----------



## m0uz

inb4 they say "Sorry, we were updating it to make it perfect"


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Welp I guess next week it is then


The Week ends on Sunday, atleast for me ^^
But i realy dont mind if it takes one week longer or not if they fix the problems the Scream One will still be my favorite mouse ^^

The Hope dies last


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Yeah, well not everybody has done business with Finalmouse before. This was my first, and most likely last encounter with this company.
> Friday, guess we can exepect a working mouse later today...?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> The Week ends on Sunday, atleast for me ^^
> But i realy dont mind if it takes one week longer or not if they fix the problems the Scream One will still be my favorite mouse ^^


... yeah, but In the grown ups world the week ends on Friday at 5pm

Im glad you dont mind having a malfunctional $80 mouse though, I sure as hell do and their efforts to resolve the issue is a solid 1/10 right now.

I dont care about how well their lab units are performing with a new firmware, I want mine to perform


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Just return it already and save yourself all this trouble


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Just return it already and save yourself all this trouble


Cant, imported it over to EU land. It'll be more of a hassle than wait for an eventual fix.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Cant, imported it over to EU land. It'll be more of a hassle than wait for an eventual fix.


Well in that case I wish you all the best with the FailMouse


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> The Week ends on Sunday, atleast for me ^^
> But i realy dont mind if it takes one week longer or not if they fix the problems the Scream One will still be my favorite mouse ^^
> 
> The Hope dies last


Please update us with how you're feeling in a month when it's still not fixed. Jude has said "next week" for a few weeks now, I'm not sure why some people hear are expecting anything anytime soon. I luckily didn't buy one and will wait until I can get one that works and doesn't have that hideous signature on it.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> Please update us with how you're feeling in a month when it's still not fixed. Jude has said "next week" for a few weeks now, I'm not sure why some people hear are expecting anything anytime soon. I luckily didn't buy one and will wait until I can get one that works and doesn't have that hideous signature on it.


Sure i am sad/angry that i bought a 80$ mouse which doesnt work 100% perfect but the problem is that its not quite easy for me to return it because i imported it .
But i still have hope that they fix the problem as soon as possible


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Sure i am sad/angry that i bought a 80$ mouse which doesnt work 100% perfect but the problem is that its not quite easy for me to return it because i imported it .
> But i still have hope that they fix the problem as soon as possible


If you had any knowledge of the history of the company, you wouldn't have imported it and waited for a more local release. The shape looks killer to me but I would never have ordered from overseas because I knew I would probably end up returning it... because, well, it's FinalMouse.

The temptation must be resisted sometimes, young one.


----------



## c0dy

Maybe it'll be the same as with the experimental firmwares for the original FM?


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> If you had any knowledge of the history of the company, you wouldn't have imported it and waited for a more local release. The shape looks killer to me but I would never have ordered from overseas because I knew I would probably end up returning it... because, well, it's FinalMouse.
> 
> The temptation must be resisted sometimes, young one.


Yeah, never had a Finalmouse before. Friend from work bought the original one and he's very happy with his. So I plunged, bad choice. Ive learned.


----------



## Klopfer

and the "original" one is using the Razer Imperator Shape ...


----------



## bank1997

I believe the mouse just release, the company let people wait for a years and keep delay releasing date and now why people are asking about the firmware update, what's wrong with this mouse and the company. If you are not ready why selling a trash to market


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Yeah, never had a Finalmouse before. Friend from work bought the original one and he's very happy with his. So I plunged, bad choice. Ive learned.


Well I doubt anyone expected a mouse to be released that wouldn't register more than one button depressed into the market, so your plunge isn't that bad. The company is really only notorious for physical defects. Buttons working are kinda the minimum to be expected. Kinda funny they tried to pass it off as "it's just a minor issue".


----------



## aayman_farzand

Got the mouse and it feels great in had. Mouse slam is an issue if I do it really hard, and I'm using a hard pad. Now if only the firmware magically showed up...


----------



## aayman_farzand

I thought one of the bugs was we couldn't press M1 and M2 together? I'm able to click them both but not with a side button.

The grip is great, I really like how my index finger gets positioned naturally.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I thought one of the bugs was we couldn't press M1 and M2 together? I'm able to click them both but not with a side button.


It's weird, it works fine for me in Overwatch (sniping), but when I tried to play Boarderlands pre-sequel I couldn't use the weapon sights since it would bring them down whenever I left clicked.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The flasher is ready. Please email support and they will get it to you as soon as they can. It may take a bit for them since there will be alot of emails.

The reason we are having support go through this flasher is because there are a couple steps involved, since this flasher actually hacks into the mouse via cmd line to make the first batch update friendly.

This will update you to the latest 1.2.1 , which fixes all issues.


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The flasher is ready. Please email support and they will get it to you as soon as they can.


Awesome, emailed.


----------



## Rooslin

When will the next batch be available for purchase?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rooslin*
> 
> When will the next batch be available for purchase?


and when the release in europe?


----------



## end0rphine

Can someone just upload the flasher and instructions (or just the email contents) on this thread? Seems like a waste of time to email support.


----------



## Alya

Meh, too bad, I actually really liked this mouse but already returned it and got a G403. Plenty happy with the G403.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Jude please just post the download link here. Why make a simple process more complicated then it needs to be.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The reason we are having support go through this flasher is because there are a couple steps involved


lol


----------



## aayman_farzand

Support responded pretty quick
Quote:


> Hello,
> 
> The below instructions are a bit more complicated than what future Scream one batches will require... But rest assured it will update your scream one to the most up to date firmware, and all future firmware updates will be much simpler!
> 
> Firstly, here is the link to download the firmware update tool for the first batch of scream ones. Please note this is to be used only on the first batch of scream ones, and never for any future updates.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tgciqu93quxfpua/Final%20Mouse%20Firmware%20Upgrade_v1.zip?dl=0
> 
> Once downloaded follow the steps below:
> 
> 1.Run application as administrator and allow the app to make any changes to the device if prompted.
> 
> 2.In the Upgrade Tool you should see the last line of text say "listening for FinalMouse devices in ISP Mode." If this is the last line of text you see, click on "Upgrade Finalmouse Scream Firmware" button.
> 
> 3.After clicking the button you will be prompted to install a driver. Continue this through the Wizard that pops up. (Note: The Scream One will no longer be working during this step, to make the remaining steps easier we recommend using another (non-scream one) mouse to continue the update process.)
> 
> 4.Once you hit Finish in the driver wizard you will see a command line tool prepare the mouse to be updated via some automatic commands. Once this has happened, you will see a warning prompt that says "Additional Action Required..." This notifies you to unplug and reconnect the mouse. At this point the last line of text should say "Found Finalmouse device in bootloader mode." Go ahead and Unplug and Replug the Scream One to continue the update process.
> 
> 5.Once replugged you should see a prompt that says "Successfully updated Scream One Firmware, eject USB drive to finalize.".
> 
> 6.To finalized the the update you must unplug the scream one again but DO NOT replug yet.
> 
> 7.Once the mouse is unplugged you will see a prompt that says "all devices using this driver will be removed." Hit Yes to continue, this will uninstall the driver that you had previously installed in an earlier step.
> 
> 8.The last line of the upgrade tool should say "Firmware driver uninstalled" at this point it is safe to plug the mouse back in and the scream one should be updated successfully.


Pretty easy.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

There may be some bugs for certain windows environments with this updater. How has it worked for people thus far?


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There may be some bugs for certain windows environments with this updater. How has it worked for people thus far?


Mine failed after driver installation. ISP Mode failed (error 1)
I contacted support again, which escalated it ferther.

Hopefully I didnt brick my mouse, but other than the LED light nothing was working with the mouse when I had to leave for work.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> There may be some bugs for certain windows environments with this updater. How has it worked for people thus far?


Works on Windows 10.


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> Works on Windows 10.


Im also running W10, Pro, 64 bit.

Failed for me.


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Mine failed after driver installation. ISP Mode failed (error 1)


I had the same error (Win 10 x64). I plugged the mouse into another USB 2.0 port and it worked.


----------



## banZi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I had the same error (Win 10 x64). I plugged the mouse into another USB 2.0 port and it worked.


Thanks for the tip, will try that as soon as I get home.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banZi*
> 
> Im also running W10, Pro, 64 bit.
> 
> Failed for me.


Strange, same exact setup. I did fail the first time, update hung. I think it's because I didn't run as adminstrator.


----------



## end0rphine

Thanks finalmouse you bricked my mouse. Update gets to command prompt, nothing happens for 5 minutes (no cmd prompts or window). Mouse doesn't respond now even after unplugging and replugging.

EDIT: had to go to laptop and repeat process to update properly (original computer would loop the fail state). No idea what went wrong. Both running W10x64. Run as admin was selected on all trials.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If it fails you can also uninstall the driver via device manager as well . And try again that way.

The cmd line is hacking into the mouse via USB shell so it could very well be that it doesn't always work the first time. The ISP fail step just means the hack didn't crash the mouse properly

EDIT: ok so sometimes Windows drivers are slow and it could very well be the exploit is utilizing the Windows HID drivers instead of the exploit specific one. So if you get hung up on the ISP fail error just try it again. You may even be able to just ckose the updater and open it again. I don't think you have to uninstall the driver


----------



## fakeusername

I imported mine from Amazon through a proxy, how do we know if we have the "first batch"? Serial?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> I imported mine from Amazon through a proxy, how do we know if we have the "first batch"? Serial?


You have the first batch, also you could test by trying to use multiple buttons at once and seeing they don't register

But you have the first one if you got it from Amazon a week or longer ago.

This patch reminds me of adb side loading lol


----------



## fakeusername

Alright done, all good. Should look like this in case anyone was wondering...





What else does this fix apart from not being able to press side buttons simultaneously with mouse 1/2? It doesn't actually say what it does...


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Ok so just to clarify if you get the ISP fail error all you have to do is restart the tool and it will pick back up where it left off.

This update fixes all ghosting issues and also improved tapping by changing the release debounce logic.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> This update fixes all ghosting issues and also improved tapping by changing the release debounce logic.


Did they change to the zero release latency debounce algorithm?


----------



## readeh

Can't update the firmware at all. Tried on two different PC's now.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I had the same ISP fail error and managed to update the mouse after changing from the rear USB 3.0 port to front USB 3.0 port.

However, my rear USB 3.0 ports don't seem to be working anymore :/ wth FM.

Edit: Reinstalling USB3.0 from MB site fixed it. For a second I thought I killed my G403.


----------



## banZi

I can get as far as

"6.To finalized the the update you must unplug the scream one again but DO NOT replug yet."

When I unplug, nothing more happens. The Upgrade Tool just says "Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive F.

Soooo.. something is wrong, as the Scream is pretty much dead except for LED.

EDIT: Went into device mangement and uninstalled Finalmouse from there. Working again.
Now its time to test.


----------



## m0uz

A dodgy mouse gets a dodgy firmware updater... go figure!


----------



## MFlow

Does it work correctly in Win 7?


----------



## Crazy9000

Firmware update worked for me in windows 10. Confirmed holding right mouse + shooting with left didn't drop iron sights anymore.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Firmware update worked for me in windows 10. Confirmed holding right mouse + shooting with left didn't drop iron sights anymore.


Is all the defects of s1 modified?


----------



## cloudshine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Is all the defects of s1 modified?


Interested in knowing if the slam mouse thing is still a _thing_

Not sure if I'd ever trigger it while swiping the mouse, but who knows


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudshine*
> 
> Interested in knowing if the slam mouse thing is still a _thing_
> 
> Not sure if I'd ever trigger it while swiping the mouse, but who knows


It still seems to be a thing, but the way I had to do it, I'm afraid I'll damage my mouse. I'm on a hard pad and don't foresee this being a problem at all.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudshine*
> 
> Interested in knowing if the slam mouse thing is still a _thing_
> 
> Not sure if I'd ever trigger it while swiping the mouse, but who knows


It's definitely still a thing. Though rarely, I still trigger it. The best trick I've come up with is putting a towel under my mousepad to alleviate the effects.

I've actually opened the mouse and investigated into the issue, the cause is literally the design of the mouse triggers. When an impact(the "slam") happens, the plastic button flies downward toward the switch. It's kind of like what happens to people not wearing seat belts during a car collision. But I do wonder whether swapping the omron would help. Other than this one issue, I really like this mouse..


----------



## Crazy9000

All the multiple button holding seems fixed. The "slam" is a byproduct of having "hair trigger" mouse buttons.


----------



## readeh

Started experiencing double click issues last night. The firmware update failed on the mouse, so no idea what is going on.. Could be the switch that went bad suddenly or something happened doing my try to update the firmware.

Will contact FM for help.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> Started experiencing double click issues last night. The firmware update failed on the mouse, so no idea what is going on.. Could be the switch that went bad suddenly or something happened doing my try to update the firmware.
> 
> Will contact FM for help.


You need a replacement, the actual button went bad. Had the same thing happen to me


----------



## Dragonvs

6.To finalized the the update you must unplug the scream one again but DO NOT replug yet.

unplug and nothing happen no any prompt, just show "Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive H:.".

7.Once the mouse is unplugged you will see a prompt that says "all devices using this driver will be removed." Hit Yes to continue, this will uninstall the driver that you had previously installed in an earlier step.

8.The last line of the upgrade tool should say "Firmware driver uninstalled" at this point it is safe to plug the mouse back in and the scream one should be updated successfully.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonvs*
> 
> 6.To finalized the the update you must unplug the scream one again but DO NOT replug yet.
> 
> unplug and nothing happen no any prompt, just show "Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive H:.".


Click "ok" with another mouse.


----------



## Dragonvs

i click it and nothing happen


----------



## Dragonvs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Click "ok" with another mouse.


Caching firmware file...
Checksum valid
Listening for Final Mouse devices in ISP mode...
Launching Driver Installation
Driver installation successful
Launching ISP mode tool.
ISP mode successful
UsbStateChangedEvent! H: CRP1 ENABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
UsbStateChangedEvent! H: () 0 Bytes free of 0 Bytes
UsbStateChangedEvent! H: CRP DISABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
Updating firmware (H:\firmware.bin)
Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive H:.

then nothing happen, no prompt that says "all devices using this driver will be removed."


----------



## Dragonvs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonvs*
> 
> Caching firmware file...
> Checksum valid
> Listening for Final Mouse devices in ISP mode...
> Launching Driver Installation
> Driver installation successful
> Launching ISP mode tool.
> ISP mode successful
> UsbStateChangedEvent! H: CRP1 ENABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
> Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
> UsbStateChangedEvent! H: () 0 Bytes free of 0 Bytes
> UsbStateChangedEvent! H: CRP DISABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
> Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
> Updating firmware (H:\firmware.bin)
> Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive H:.
> 
> then nothing happen, no prompt that says "all devices using this driver will be removed."


fix it, delete the driver in device manager, even the driver was hidden


----------



## Rooslin

Hopefully the second batch of scream one's will be coming soon, now that the firmware is fixed


----------



## PBaF

This wreck of a mouse and thread just keeps getting better and better.

A broken firmware updater for our broken mouse that we delayed like 3 times so it would be "perfect".


----------



## aayman_farzand

Once it's working it's a great mouse though. I would say I like the grip as much as like Zowie's.

I just hope it doesn't crap out in a couple of months.


----------



## shaiaz

Do you guys think I can swap feet on it ? Currently have a few extra pairs of zowie skatez that I would like to use but unsure how well they would fit, haven't seen any hyperglidez / tiger skatez.


----------



## sirneb

I changed my M1/M2 Omrons D2FC-F-7N(20M) to D2F-01F, it didn't do anything for the slam issue. I kind of suspected that result. I'll try switching to 150g activation force variant of the switch to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## MFlow

Is the modified firmware still unavailable?
It's possible this year?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Is the modified firmware still unavailable?
> It's possible this year?


what modified firmware? 1.2.1 is posted earlier if that's what you mean.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> what modified firmware? 1.2.1 is posted earlier if that's what you mean.


Most people have experienced errors in the firmware steps 6 and 7, causing the mouse to become bricked.
Is this really the right firmware?


----------



## MFlow

Do you mean people have to run the firmware at the risk of the mouse being bricked?
Depending on the Windows environment, there may be bugs. What happened to that?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Most people have experienced errors in the firmware steps 6 and 7, causing the mouse to become bricked.
> Is this really the right firmware?


I don't think anyone has gotten a bricked mouse, I'm not even sure if it's possible to brick the mouse with this firmware.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I don't think anyone has gotten a bricked mouse, I'm not even sure if it's possible to brick the mouse with this firmware.


You should read the comments above.
There are various symptoms. From people whose applications do not work at all ...
My friend's scream one is already broken.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> You should read the comments above.
> There are various symptoms. From people whose applications do not work at all ...
> My friend's scream one is already broken.


You should read them again, nobody had a bricked mouse.

Uninstalling the driver makes it work again if it fails for some reason.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> You should read them again, nobody had a bricked mouse.
> 
> Uninstalling the driver makes it work again if it fails for some reason.


My friend's mouse was bricked.
So if people run it again, is this firmware working properly?


----------



## MFlow

Who is successful on Windows 10 and why someone fails on Windows 10.
what is the reason.


----------



## aayman_farzand

We don't know the exact reasons but anyone who has failed the process did not end up with a brick. It's because the application does not fail during the flashing process, it if starts then you're good, if it doesn't then restart again.

Also, the mouse is great. Some of my friends tried it out, all of them loved it.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Some of my friends tried it out, all of them loved it.


and that's proof?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> the mouse is great


it's not that good a product, certainly not $80+ good.
even if the firmware was any better, it still would just be a basic 3360 mouse.
something like the g403 totally kicks its ass, it's not even a contest.

no offense. if you like the shape, texture, then that's fine, but a great mouse it isn't


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Who is successful on Windows 10 and why someone fails on Windows 10.
> what is the reason.


There are definitely at least a couple successes in this thread alone, including myself. Mine failed the first time and it was "bricked" but I was able to try again and it succeeded.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> and that's proof?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not that good a product, certainly not $80+ good.
> even if the firmware was any better, it still would just be a basic 3360 mouse.
> something like the g403 totally kicks its ass, it's not even a contest.
> 
> no offense. if you like the shape, texture, then that's fine, but a great mouse it isn't


So what do you expect from a good mouse? Wireless would've been great but it's not something that's needed for a mouse to be good. The price point is not an issue for me.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> if you like the shape, texture, then that's fine, but a great mouse it isn't


I'd tend to agree. I really love the shape and texture, there is no replacement in the market for me atm. I've perform best with it, probably mostly because of the shape but I have to work around the slam issue which kind of sucks.


----------



## Melan

If you sell an $80 mouse it better have way more features than an ok shape and 3360. At this point it's just a ripoff.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you sell an $80 mouse it better have way more features than an ok shape and 3360. At this point it's just a ripoff.


Yeah but it also has the no software feature! A-And the "my mouse clicks if I place it down too hard" feature.

Seriously though, I really liked this shape, sad that FM butchered it. I gave them a chance, even gave them 3 weeks, and then just returned it.


----------



## Melan

Well, Logitech also has no software feature... it also has software on demand.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, Logitech also has no software feature... it also has software on demand.


I always had LGS installed because I don't really care much for it, it's not like it's intrusive or breaks my mice.

Aka it's not Synapse.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you sell an $80 mouse it better have way more features than an ok shape and 3360. At this point it's just a ripoff.


G900 has an ok shape and was sold for $150. I had that too but wireless alone didn't justify it's price point. Right now I have the G303, 403 and Pro, if the build quality of the S1 holds up, then it's not really a ripoff considering it's $10 more than a G Pro,


----------



## Melan

Wireless, free-scroll wheel, pivot system, fully ambidextrous without sidebuttons that annoy you.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Free-scroll was useless for me and probably most gamers.
Side buttons on any mice hasn't bothered me at all.
The clicks were great but the sway was a mild annoyance.

Like I said, wireless alone isn't worth $150.


----------



## Melan

For "you", not for other people. Stuff that I've listed are features which justify $150 price tag. You don't have to use them. Finalmouse can't justify it's $80 price tag because there's literally nothing.

If you pick a mouse at the same price point as FM, which is G403, QC aside, it offers way more for the same price.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> For "you", not for other people. Stuff that I've listed are features which justify $150 price tag. You don't have to use them. Finalmouse can't justify it's $80 price tag because there's literally nothing.
> 
> If you pick a mouse at the same price point as FM, which is G403, QC aside, it offers way more for the same price.


FM is more similar to Zowie, their pricing is quite high compared to what they offer i.e. a plain functioning gaming mouse. The G900 should be ~$100 like the G403 wireless, you can't possibly say free scroll and mechanical clicks are worth the additional $50.

I switched to this from a G403, both of them are great. I prefer the lighter weight of the FM and the height makes it easier to grip and move the mouse across pad. My only complaint is the DPI button, I'd much rather assign something else to it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> For "you", not for other people. Stuff that I've listed are features which justify $150 price tag. You don't have to use them. Finalmouse can't justify it's $80 price tag because there's literally nothing.
> 
> If you pick a mouse at the same price point as FM, which is G403, QC aside, it offers way more for the same price.


Same argument applies. It justifies that price tag "for you", not for other people.

Some people think the S1 shape and performance is worth $80, some don't. The people that do buy it.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> FM is more similar to Zowie,


More like being another Zowie.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> their pricing is quite high compared to what they offer i.e. a plain functioning gaming mouse.


None of which justifies the price and plays on people's "Look! Esports mouse yall!".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> The G900 should be ~$100 like the G403 wireless, you can't possibly say free scroll and mechanical clicks are worth the additional $50.


Designing and implementing this correctly AND maintaining a decent weight takes it's toll on the price tag.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Same argument applies. It justifies that price tag "for you", not for other people.


Most of "Other people" usually buy into esports garbage on the first go. Marketing 101. Getting the most out of your buck shouldn't be so hard, but it seems I'm wrong.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Designing and implementing this correctly AND maintaining a decent weight takes it's toll on the price tag.
> Most of "Other people" usually buy into esports garbage on the first go. Marketing 101. Getting the most out of your buck shouldn't be so hard, but it seems I'm wrong.


FM is a much smaller company than Logitech, if you can justify ridiculous $150 with R&D then FM can tack on $20 to the usual $60.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I've seen people here spend money on much worse objects. $30+ for 6 months use of mouse pads, the mouse rock...$20 is nothing compared to that.

(I get the constant feeling that I'm jinxing myself and the mouse will die on me in two months...)

I keep forgetting to mention, the braided cable does not fit my generic bungee. It's quite thin (at least compared to Logitech) and light weight so I haven't had issues without one.


----------



## Melan

Problem is, it's not worth even $60. I would understand $40 for the hardware + 10-20 for "R&D" but not 80. Hell no.


----------



## shaiaz

A good mouse is subjective isn't it ? I think it's a great mouse and would use it over g403 anyday

edit: mine failed during the flashing but I uninstalled the driver, replugged and it worked as normal then I reflashed and it worked as it should.


----------



## Melan

I'm talking about what is there in $80 mouse. Whether you like it/buy it/marry it or not, I don't give a hoot.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> R&D


If only that research wasn't market research and development wasn't development of relationships with cerain progamer.


----------



## kashim

Guys any update for europe shopping?they fixed alla with new firmware?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> If only that research wasn't market research and development wasn't development of relationships with cerain progamer.


Hence the quotation marks.


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Problem is, it's not worth even $60. I would understand $40 for the hardware + 10-20 for "R&D" but not 80. Hell no.


What do you expect in a $80 mouse?


----------



## wareya

acceptable firmware and shell design for two


----------



## Melan

Software support already covers extra 4 points (Ability to set the mouse to custom CPI step and polling, program buttons, disable leds, patch firmware). So, that's six now.


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Software support already covers extra 4 points (Ability to set the mouse to custom CPI step and polling, program buttons, disable leds, patch firmware). So, that's six now.


So you're saying the mouse should have some software to go alongside it to allow you to customize it?


----------



## Melan

As long as that software isn't synapse which requires it to be installed for customization to work, yes. You won't lose anything by not installing it if mouse is already set up by default and people with "exotic tastes" will get a chance to set it up how they want.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> if you can justify ridiculous $150 with R&D


Considering what you get with the mouse (as explained) you can. Whether or not you use it (or deem it usable) is totally different.

Wireless, customizable magnetic buttons, pivot switches, alternative manufacturing process for low weight, tilt and free scroll, the list did go on. I's say it's worth that considering it was a first release of most of those features. Now I wouldn't buy it personally at that price but I also understand why it is priced as such.

I don't think anyone is trying to steer away from whether or not you find the FM fine for the price (because well, that's your opinion







), but that there's far better buys out there given the price range.


----------



## aayman_farzand

We're arguing value perception at this point, to me the G900 is not worth $150 for wireless and mechanical switches only. Free scroll, tilt and alternative manufacturing cant say any of that is relevant to me. I gave the mouse a fair chance before I sold it off.


----------



## kashim

jude any news about europe?the europe batch come with all fix in the firmware?


----------



## hammelgammler

Please let the Finalmouse be ready to Europe, I'm waiting for it so badly.


----------



## readeh

Tried contacting them because of firmware update issues and double click issues, but they are not responding to my emails anymore... Don't rush out to buy it.


----------



## NovaGOD

I'm still interested for this despite all the fw/qa problems, looks perfect for my grip and it has a top sensor but honestly i've lost all hope for EU release.









I remember they were talking about a "wordwide launch" at first then turned into "EU and other countries shorty after" or something like that and now we are in the dark, no ETA, no mention for wordwide availability. Someone on reddit said he received an email and they were saying "they're hoping to release it Q1 or Q2 2017", this in finalmouse terms means at least another year..







There is absolutely no reason to wait for this mouse imo, If you want this so badly i suggest to try and import it or just buy a g403 and forget about it.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> I'm still interested for this despite all the fw/qa problems, looks perfect for my grip and it has a top sensor but honestly i've lost all hope for EU release.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember they were talking about a "wordwide launch" at first then turned into "EU and other countries shorty after" or something like that and now we are in the dark, no ETA, no mention for wordwide availability. Someone on reddit said he received an email and they were saying "they're hoping to release it Q1 or Q2 2017", this in finalmouse terms means at least another year..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no reason to wait for this mouse imo, If you want this so badly i suggest to try and import it or just buy a g403 and forget about it.


By all means, go for it. It does look like a nice grip but all the known issues (ghosting) and firmware updates via Dropbox (***? really?) makes you wonder about this company's decision to just release a project that should've been scrapped. I'm used to seeing broken games at launch, but defective/broken mice at launch? Is this a new trend? smh.


----------



## kashim

mmm don t like g403 ergo...wanna try ambi shaoe with that sensor and performance...revel and dm1 pro s have a lot of problems too,need to wait zowue upgrade or new sensei


----------



## benllok

Afaik the release of a new batch with "fixed" fw is gonna be ready around christmas time, followed by EU launch after two weeks. What's coming for Q2 is the S1 black version.

Source: CS


----------



## -IIToRII-

This thread is the beast of all !


----------



## PBaF

MFW I read this thread


----------



## Watery Chemical

Is Scream still using the Scream one? Might just be the poor quality image and lighting but the shape and colour (I know there is a black in the works) looks different to me.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watery Chemical*
> 
> Is Scream still using the Scream one? Might just be the poor quality image and lighting but the shape and colour (I know there is a black in the works) looks different to me.


Lol. Looks like he's using a deathadder.


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watery Chemical*
> 
> 
> 
> Is Scream still using the Scream one? Might just be the poor quality image and lighting but the shape and colour (I know there is a black in the works) looks different to me.


https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/785620506250612736

They tweeted that there will be different editions/colors of the Scream One. No release date though. Probably in 2018 Kappa


----------



## shaiaz

He is definitely not using it


----------



## gene-z

He's probably waiting on the revision shipment guys.









Seriously though, hope they didn't forget that in the contract! Should have made him use it in tournaments for at least a few months. Looks bad on the product when the guy it's named after doesn't even use it.


----------



## Argowashi

lol

Sell a mouse for $80 instead of $40 only because it's got Scream on it and was made in collaboration with a famous CSGO player. And then said player don't even use the mouse.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


----------



## Watery Chemical

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


Maybe get the Scream One working first?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


So why haven't us dirty, common peasants gotten the prototype?


----------



## Zhuni

Scream 2 (Don't Answer The Door, Don't Leave The House, Don't Answer The Phone, But Most Of All, Don't SCREAM.)


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


Scream2 - Electric Boogaloo or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Ergo


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Right now our focus is getting new batches of the s1 out along with new s1 editions . Europe and retailers will get these at the end of the month and this will bring price down from original Msrp.

The firmware bugs were a setback for the s1 and we understand the frustration with that. So we want to thank everyone that helped sort out those issues.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Right now our focus is getting new batches of the s1 out along with new s1 editions . Europe and retailers will get these at the end of the month and this will bring price down from original Msrp.
> 
> The firmware bugs were a setback for the s1 and we understand the frustration with that. So we want to thank everyone that helped sort out those issues.


then for jenuary have europe release wiwthout any problem and with fixed firmware 100%?


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watery Chemical*
> 
> 
> 
> Is Scream still using the Scream one? Might just be the poor quality image and lighting but the shape and colour (I know there is a black in the works) looks different to me.


Can't tell from the pic quality but it looks like a da elite to me.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Right now our focus is getting new batches of the s1 out along with new s1 editions . Europe and retailers will get these at the end of the month and this will bring price down from original Msrp.
> 
> The firmware bugs were a setback for the s1 and we understand the frustration with that. So we want to thank everyone that helped sort out those issues.


Next time let more of us test the product


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


what kind of prototype?is released soon or not?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


what kind of prototype?is released soon or not?


----------



## jsx3

but but.... the scream one is best esports mouse in the world!!!!. D:


----------



## realistic01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> what kind of prototype?is released soon or not?


RazerTM Deathadder Scream EditionTM


----------



## equlix

08:13:48 https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/ClumsyChinchillaDuDudu
08:31:58 https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/GloriousVultureSoonerLater
08:55:40 https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/FairDinosaurVoHiYo
09:22:15 https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/DistinctGorillaKappaWealth
09:25:03 https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/ExpensiveToadPuppeyFace
Time stamps are not exact. The clips are all the relevant stuff.


----------



## Alya

That's definitely a FinalMouse wheel and logo when they're standing up after they've won.


----------



## roz133

From FM twitter
Quote:


> For those asking scream is using a special classic ergo last day of qualis. It's not s1 black edition.


----------



## ncck

Hmmm... must be the finalmouse screamone working edition

I think I see a rubber cable


----------



## readeh

Still havent had any answer back from the two emails that I send to FM support two weeks ago. Firmware update still fails every time and I've had some double click issues which is probably the switch it self, even though it started within 1 hour after trying to flash the firmware.

Wat to do pls


----------



## e4stw00t

In short: Don't support that company going forward - lesson a lot of users have learned in the past.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> In short: Don't support that company going forward - lesson a lot of users have learned in the past.


Maybe it's a good thing that their product isn't available everywhere on the planet, saved us all a lot of money which shall be better spent elsewhere







.


----------



## rove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now. It's not the black edition s1, something a little different


Is it a new MSI 3.0 PLEASE!?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> He is using a prototype finalmouse right now.


I know the feeling.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I know the feeling.


LOL


----------



## -IIToRII-

It's kind of sad because i was somewhat hyped for this S1.. Looked like a good shape, a known sensor, a mouse used by the pro ect ect..
Then there was some mention of bad qc... but hey.. every company gets that from time to time I said to myself..

So I kept fallowing this thread , waiting for the people how got a chance to buy it could come back and prove the "qc" is non exciting problem
So i notated the names from the guys in this thread AND *** do u know.. Every one of them experience issues !

I was like wait, what ..... ????? Rattles, and U can't hold down two button's at ONCE?! how in HOLY zombie Jesus can something like that run passed a QC
I .. I the hell ? Well that's something they will adress qui.... NOOP !!

AND the best thing is... People still bought IT and kept complaining when their mouse too got faulty M1/M2, or the two button press didn't work, or the scroll wheel was lose.
And again I was *** whats wrong with people.. LOL !!! THIS IS INSANELY AWSM !!! I cant believe it, but it happens

And to put the icing on the cake: Scream is NOT using this mouse now , but another prototype








Man, I just.. man..

This , this is pure awesomness


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-IIToRII-*
> 
> It's kind of sad because i was somewhat hyped for this S1.. Looked like a good shape, a known sensor, a mouse used by the pro ect ect..
> Then there was some mention of bad qc... but hey.. every company gets that from time to time I said to myself..
> 
> So I kept fallowing this thread , waiting for the people how got a chance to buy it could come back and prove the "qc" is non exciting problem
> So i notated the names from the guys in this thread AND *** do u know.. Every one of them experience issues !
> 
> I was like wait, what ..... ????? Rattles, and U can't hold down two button's at ONCE?! how in HOLY zombie Jesus can something like that run passed a QC
> I .. I the hell ? Well that's something they will adress qui.... NOOP !!
> 
> AND the best thing is... People still bought IT and kept complaining when there mouse too got faulty M1/M2, or the two button press didn't work, or the scroll wheel was lose.
> And again I was *** whats wrong with people.. LOL !!! THIS IS INSANELY AWSM !!! I cant believe it, but it happens
> 
> And to put the icing on the cake: Scream is NOT using this mouse now , but another prototype
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I just.. man..
> 
> This , this is pure awesomness


Like Max implied, everything FailMouse has released has been a prototype. Wouldn't surprise me if Jude lied and it was just a regular ergo.


----------



## a_ak57

So if it took basically a year just to swap the sensor in an existing mouse and still release it unfinished, should we expect a proper version of this mouse with a new shape to arrive sometime in 2019?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I know the feeling.


We all know that feeling too well...


----------



## ncck

My major concern is you fixed the firmware problems, but what about the mouse button double clicking, scroll wheel shaking inside the casing violently, or the button activiating when picked up? No I'm not referring to in being slammed I made the button fire up to 3 times in one day just by normal lifting - or rather was playing a very competitive match and had to turn around as fast as possible

And what's the plan
S1 'second edition'
A new Ergo
Another S1?

I'm just confused by the route, I really wanted to use the S1 but all 3 of mine are broken - it was just easy to aim with


----------



## wareya

Final finalmouse?


----------



## ronal

Hopefully this company goes under in 2017, fingers crossed.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I know the feeling.


LOL'd


----------



## sirneb

They never really acknowledged the slamming issue as an actual issue which doesn't make me want to give them any more business.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> They never really acknowledged the slamming issue as an actual issue which doesn't make me want to give them any more business.


They actually did. Kind of placed blame on the user instead of the mouse, but it's here:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If someone has their button actuate during normal gameplay, support will accommodate this as it is a defect. We have in the ball park of 20 pro cs players on either a new TP batch or S1 that all play on low sens and have never reported this issue. We have also double checked recently ourselves.
> 
> You are right it does not take a "Hard" Slam to actuate. But it requires a purposeful slamming motion onto a hard surface. We did not find it to actuate in any normal gaming environment. Regardless of sensitivity.
> 
> If you are someone that does forcefully place the mouse down onto a surface to the point of actuating the S1 or TP, then these mice are not meant for you!


----------



## aayman_farzand

I play on a hard pad and haven't had the button actuate even once. So the slamming is not an issue.

However, actuation during lifting it is and should be addressed. Haven't had that issue either, maybe I have the only golden scream one.


----------



## xmr1

The power of ScreaM.


----------



## exeandrey

If I bouth such non working properly mouse for 80 $ I would scream quite loud


----------



## NovaGOD

I wonder how much can scream sell his "prototype" for on ebay.


----------



## hammelgammler

Does anyone know a mouse with the same or similar shape to the ScreamOne?

I found this mouse right here: https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-ms761-6-button-gaming-mouse/

Looks pretty similar to me, and I'm torn to try it out. The sensor is nothing special, but I heard it should be fine at 1000DPI (I only need precice enough tracking and low lift off distance).

Any suggestions?


----------



## ncck

Why not wait because it's coming out again in like 2-3 weeks

Also I don't think there's a same shape, pretty sure it's their own mold at least for this one


----------



## hammelgammler

Yeah hopefully it will be out in Europe in January, but I just can't wait for something in this shape anymore. I would rather use a similar/same shape for the next month and pay 20 Euro or so.









Is it confirmed that it will be available in Europe (Germany) in the next 2-3 weeks?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Yeah hopefully it will be out in Europe in January, but I just can't wait for something in this shape anymore. I would rather use a similar/same shape for the next month and pay 20 Euro or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it confirmed that it will be available in Europe (Germany) in the next 2-3 weeks?


Yes it's confirmed for EU. Obviously confirmations mean little with all the missed dead lines but that's the official reply as of now
The shape is pretty nice, wish my pinky had more space but minus that finger the shape was actually really good. I hope you get a good one you will enjoy it


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Does anyone know a mouse with the same or similar shape to the ScreamOne?
> 
> I found this mouse right here: https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-ms761-6-button-gaming-mouse/
> 
> Looks pretty similar to me, and I'm torn to try it out. The sensor is nothing special, but I heard it should be fine at 1000DPI (I only need precice enough tracking and low lift off distance).
> 
> Any suggestions?


I am actually really tempted to buy this one. Considering it's only 10 dollars


----------



## hammelgammler

$10? How can you get it that cheap? Isn't that coupon at a value of at least $50?









Well, it's 23€ on Amazon.de and I'm really tempted. Just wanted to know if someone hat experience with it.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> $10? How can you get it that cheap? Isn't that coupon at a value of at least $50?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it's 23€ on Amazon.de and I'm really tempted. Just wanted to know if someone hat experience with it.


It was 16 on amazon for me and I applied the 5dollar coupon so it's 10. I bought it


----------



## kashim

guys wait 2/3 weeks for europe release with fixed batch...don t rush this mouse....so much issues,wait is better way imho


----------



## exeandrey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys wait 2/3 weeks for europe release with fixed batch...don t rush this mouse....so much issues,wait is better way imho


wait to beta test it? ))
I think most expensive mouse should be all perfect. This one allmost all fail.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exeandrey*
> 
> wait to beta test it? ))
> I think most expensive mouse should be all perfect. This one allmost all fail.


man i have g502 with double click problem,a lot of my friends have zowie,razer mouse with problems then any mouse can have a problem!!!!but there are 2 type of problems
fixable or not!
zowie have baddest click on the market,can zowie fix it?no!need to change it!
razer have a junk build quality (coming from a DA 3.5 dead and chroma with left click half broke!!!) can razer fix?no need to change it!!!
my g502 have worst feet on the market,double click problem and for a long time spinning issues(they fixed with firmware)can logitech fix it?no!!!!need to sell another mouse!!
this new company had a lot of problems
1)too sensitive clicks(for low response and fast actions) if u smack the mouse boom...but who slap the mouse so strong?learn how to use low sens or put your sens a bit higher
2)double click this is a problem!i hate this and i hope they fix in the europe release
3)hold middle and can t shoot or do nothing,they have worked for fix it!!!and they do it!!!
then open your eyes!!!anyone can mistake!!!but imho they try to fix it!!!
this is my personal opinion,i don t work for finalmouse or nothing....but if jude wanna send me a finalmouse s1 when released on EU free it s fine for me








sorry for bad english







hope you understand what i said


----------



## Bucake

!!!







 !!!


----------



## Argowashi

My poor eyes.


----------



## Poodle

I'm confused. Finalmouse dude said Scream is using "prototype" and Scream tweeted he was using black Scream One? Different color is a prototype?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> I'm confused. Finalmouse dude said Scream is using "prototype" and Scream tweeted he was using black Scream One? Different color is a prototype?


Well what he was using was actually using the ergo shell and is most likely just an ergo 2016. Obviously they would never admit that though. Either that or they put the scream one internals in an ergo shell because the mouse he was using at the major qualifier was definitely an ergo shape.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well what he was using was actually using the ergo shell and is most likely just an ergo 2016. Obviously they would never admit that though. Either that or they put the scream one internals in an ergo shell because the mouse he was using at the major qualifier was definitely an ergo shape.


Which just goes to show FinalMouse doesn't listen to what people want, because if Scream got what he asked for he would obviously be using it.
Thought the entire point of FM was to listen to the pros unlike the rest of the competition.
Instead we keep getting things like braided cables which 0% of competitive players desire.

BUT IT LOOKS FANCY!
I only buy the fanciest looking mice, who cares how they feel and perform.


----------



## arcrox

My unit has a peculiar bug: it prevents my monitors from going to sleep. I have them set to turn off after 20 mins, but with my S1 plugged in, they turn back on immediately. Anyone else experience this behavior?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> My unit has a peculiar bug: it prevents my monitors from going to sleep. I have them set to turn off after 20 mins, but with my S1 plugged in, they turn back on immediately. Anyone else experience this behavior?


Yes, this happened after the 1.2.1 firmware update. I didn't point it out since I wasn't sure if it was the mouse but now that S1 is not plugged in, I don't have the issue.


----------



## t3ram

Got the same bug here ;/ i just unplug it if i go away ....


----------



## gunit2004

Seems like Rocket Jump Ninja finally got a copy of this mouse. Will be interested to see what he says about it.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Seems like Rocket Jump Ninja finally got a copy of this mouse. Will be interested to see what he says about it.


I hope he runs into the slam bug.. lol. I mean I appreciate the low latency clicks but I don't think that's an excuse.


----------



## SynergyCB

Hi, my name is Zy, long time Quake player, here to review the best mouse of 2016.

Kappa


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hi, my name is Zy, long time Quake player, here to review the best mouse of 2016.
> 
> Kappa


I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but every single RJN review is way too similar, it gets incredibly monotonous. This is pretty much what the review will be.

"Hey, my name is Zy, Quake player for 17 years and counting, and this is the FinalMouse ScreamOne, a mouse made for competitive gaming, I've been playing pretty well with this mouse so lets talk about it. It's a bit too large for my liking, you can see it here with its relative the FK1, you can see they have a pretty similar shape and the dimensions are pretty similar, but the ScreamOne is much lighter at about 85g with some cable. You can see it has very few angles, flat sides, and a slightly tapered upper shell, this allows for us to grip the mouse easily, we call this a safe shape but it's still just a little bit too big for me, so I think I'll stay with the FK2 as my competitive mouse of choice. I'll let you hear the clicks now, as you can tell the FK1 has much more tactile and snappy clicks than the ScreamOne, there's not much tactile feedback on the scroll so it's probably not gonna be preferred by CS players. Next lets check the click delay, this is against the G403 wired, not a scientific test, and it seems there is none. Next lets check the sensor implementation, as you can see it has no acceleration, and I can't get it to spin out. Even with the tilt slam test. It feels very snappy and responsive, no obvious delay on this one. Lets do some rocket jumps, yep, performs perfectly as expected of the 3360 sensor. I'm not quite sure why the $80 price tag on this one, what does it have that the FK1/FK2 hasn't? I think for the price it's not worth it, and if you want something like this you should get the FK1 and save the $20."


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but every single RJN review is way too similar, it gets incredibly monotonous. This is pretty much what the review will be.
> 
> "Hey, my name is Zy, Quake player for 17 years and counting, and this is the FinalMouse ScreamOne, a mouse made for competitive gaming, I've been playing pretty well with this mouse so lets talk about it. It's a bit too large for my liking, you can see it here with its relative the FK1, you can see they have a pretty similar shape and the dimensions are pretty similar, but the ScreamOne is much lighter at about 85g with some cable. You can see it has very few angles, flat sides, and a slightly tapered upper shell, this allows for us to grip the mouse easily, we call this a safe shape but it's still just a little bit too big for me, so I think I'll stay with the FK2 as my competitive mouse of choice. I'll let you hear the clicks now, as you can tell the FK1 has much more tactile and snappy clicks than the ScreamOne, there's not much tactile feedback on the scroll so it's probably not gonna be preferred by CS players. Next lets check the click delay, this is against the G403 wired, not a scientific test, and it seems there is none. Next lets check the sensor implementation, as you can see it has no acceleration, and I can't get it to spin out. Even with the tilt slam test. It feels very snappy and responsive, no obvious delay on this one. Lets do some rocket jumps, yep, performs perfectly as expected of the 3360 sensor. I'm not quite sure why the $80 price tag on this one, what does it have that the FK1/FK2 hasn't? I think for the price it's not worth it, and if you want something like this you should get the FK1 and save the $20."


hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahha spot on


----------



## Zhuni

LOL'd


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but every single RJN review is way too similar, it gets incredibly monotonous...


I agree, he's way too politically correct. He obviously don't want to piss off companies sending him free mice to review.


----------



## Zhuni

Double post...


----------



## Alya

Just to get it out there, I'm not trying to denounce the guy's reviews, or attack him or anything, I'm just saying that he's not critical enough about mice he's using, if I can state pretty much exactly what will be said in the review without even watching it, it shows that there's not much variety from review to review, not having variety means that interest gets lost, and interest and viewership are directly proportional, while I suppose there's not much you can do about reviews being repetitive because you can only review so much about a mouse, there needs to be some amount of variety besides the mouse in question to keep users attracted and your channel growing. Viewership and growth will stagnate or eventually decline if there's nothing to promote growth or interest.


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Just to get it out there, I'm not trying to denounce the guy's reviews, or attack him or anything, I'm just saying that he's not critical enough about mice he's using, if I can state pretty much exactly what will be said in the review without even watching it, it shows that there's not much variety from review to review, not having variety means that interest gets lost, and interest and viewership are directly proportional, while I suppose there's not much you can do about reviews being repetitive because you can only review so much about a mouse, there needs to be some amount of variety besides the mouse in question to keep users attracted and your channel growing. Viewership and growth will stagnate or eventually decline if there's nothing to promote growth or interest.


someone has to comment this on his next video lol


----------



## Gauanqh6764

.


----------



## kashim

i think rocket is one of the best mouse reviewer..


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i think rocket is one of the best mouse reviewer..


He's not, but let's be honest how many people want to sit and make a video then edit it and do voice overs for every single mouse they touch. Plus if you tell company X they're garbage how likely are you to get another free mouse from elsewhere? Despite people being very critical here it's literally the best place to get information


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Just to get it out there, I'm not trying to denounce the guy's reviews, or attack him or anything, I'm just saying that he's not critical enough about mice he's using, if I can state pretty much exactly what will be said in the review without even watching it, it shows that there's not much variety from review to review, not having variety means that interest gets lost, and interest and viewership are directly proportional, while I suppose there's not much you can do about reviews being repetitive because you can only review so much about a mouse, there needs to be some amount of variety besides the mouse in question to keep users attracted and your channel growing. Viewership and growth will stagnate or eventually decline if there's nothing to promote growth or interest.


I agree, i also want more variety and criticism but if you are reviewing a mouse there is not much you can dislike that isn't pure preference tbh, what do you expect him to say? "3310 in 2017 lel, this shape is godawful no one should use it, buttons are the worst i've seen" etc.. Even Ino who is highly praised on this forum (and don't get me wrong i enjoy his reviews) i think he follows a same pattern as well.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Just to get it out there, I'm not trying to denounce the guy's reviews, or attack him or anything, I'm just saying that he's not critical enough about mice he's using, if I can state pretty much exactly what will be said in the review without even watching it, it shows that there's not much variety from review to review, not having variety means that interest gets lost, and interest and viewership are directly proportional, while I suppose there's not much you can do about reviews being repetitive because you can only review so much about a mouse, there needs to be some amount of variety besides the mouse in question to keep users attracted and your channel growing. Viewership and growth will stagnate or eventually decline if there's nothing to promote growth or interest.


you judge youtube videos based on how well they keep a channel alive rather than by their actual content?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you judge youtube videos based on how well they keep a channel alive rather than by their actual content?


I'm not sure how you took that away from what I said at all, but alright.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I'm not sure how you took that away from what I said at all, but alright.


Cause...cause you're a stupid head.


----------



## Maximillion

PhiZ?! I thought you fell victim to the streets or something.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> PhiZ?! I thought you fell victim to the streets or something.


He's alive.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> PhiZ?! I thought you fell victim to the streets or something.


I have been MIA for quite a bit of time I know. I have been hitting Alya up though. I have been using one mouse and one only, DM1 Pro S....Maybe I should do a write up....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> He's alive.


Yes.......Yes him is.


----------



## FatalProximity

Anyone know where I can find the DM1 Pro S in Canada? I've been using the Logitech G pro but have been wondering if this shape would be more comfortable.


----------



## tweaker123

is there going to be any more scream ones in stock? or am i out of luck


----------



## xmr1

Finalmouse said by the end of the month. So translated that means maybe by June. Good luck!


----------



## the1onewolf

Hm when is the mouse that scream is actually using coming out?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> He's not, but let's be honest how many people want to sit and make a video then edit it and do voice overs for every single mouse they touch. Plus if you tell company X they're garbage how likely are you to get another free mouse from elsewhere? Despite people being very critical here it's literally the best place to get information


Have you seen his review of the somewhat new Roccat Kova?


----------



## MFlow

Nobody knows! even Jude.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Have you seen his review of the somewhat new Roccat Kova?


I hope whatever drawing board they used to conjure up that turd was burned and destroyed.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Have you seen his review of the somewhat new Roccat Kova?


Nope could only watch so many videos of him.
Waryuh or whatever now those are refreshing with some good comic relief


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Nope could only watch so many videos of him.
> Waryuh or whatever now those are refreshing with some good comic relief


Warhuryeah, I'm subbed to him as well.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> He's not, but let's be honest how many people want to sit and make a video then edit it and do voice overs for every single mouse they touch. Plus if you tell company X they're garbage how likely are you to get another free mouse from elsewhere? Despite people being very critical here it's literally the best place to get information


He's doing amazon plug, in other words he receives money for his activities, thus it's a job. Plus he's not gonna say that a mouse is garbage just due to the fact that he's interested in selling everything he reviews (promotes).


----------



## Alya

Called it.


----------



## aayman_farzand

He obviously has a post-fix version of the mouse and there really isn't much to complain about anymore.


----------



## nodicaL

I'm half expecting that his "tilt-slam" test will trigger the LMB.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> He obviously has a post-fix version of the mouse and there really isn't much to complain about anymore.


Not what I was talking about, I called that it would be "slightly too large for his hands" and that's what he said.

EDIT: And here it is.


----------



## Argowashi

Dunno why I even bother watching his videos anymore. His methodology of testing is completely watered down to the minimum and his button latency testing makes me laugh.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> Dunno why I even bother watching his videos anymore. His methodology of testing is completely watered down to the minimum and his button latency testing makes me laugh.


Is there another one out on YouTube that makes good mouse reviews?
Sure he has always the same style of reviews but it's still not that bad, i get the information i need


----------



## t0xx1k

His reviews are good but he's just too nice. I think to maintain good relationships with the companies sending him products (he's amassed quite a collection for such a young channel).

He could have obviously laughed at a mouse that expensive that randomly leftclicks when you set it down and a laundry list of other issues but instead "I'm sure building a mouse is very hard"...: ) a little too polite for a critical review.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t0xx1k*
> 
> His reviews are good but he's just too nice. I think to maintain good relationships with the companies sending him products (he's amassed quite a collection for such a young channel).
> 
> He could have obviously laughed at a mouse that expensive that randomly leftclicks when you set it down and a laundry list of other issues but instead "I'm sure building a mouse is very hard"...: ) a little too polite for a critical review.


How was he nice for his Roccat Kova review, even he in the comments mentioned he was too mean.


----------



## t0xx1k

I haven't seen that one, I will check it out


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nodicaL*
> 
> I'm half expecting that his "tilt-slam" test will trigger the LMB.


lol you called it.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> He obviously has a post-fix version of the mouse and there really isn't much to complain about anymore.


I noticed the finalmouse logo is no longer clear for LED lit in his review. It's now pure white just like the "Scream" signature. It's highly likely that he's reviewing the second edition.

nevermind, it is still lit but it seems deceptively white in the video.


----------



## kashim

seems fm had fixed 2 of 3 problems...but click slam is here....i really like overall mouse(weight,shape,click,sensor) but i m scared of buy it


----------



## Crack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> seems fm had fixed 2 of 3 problems...but click slam is here....i really like overall mouse(weight,shape,click,sensor) but i m scared of buy it


Don't be scared, buy it and let us know how it is


----------



## M1st

Where the hell does he get 180 ms of pedestal values for button lag? With this test any mouse vs any mouse is "not much difference".

Plus, this review reeks of something very unpleasant, especially at the end.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Where the hell does he get 180 ms of pedestal values for button lag? With this test any mouse vs any mouse is "not much difference".
> 
> Plus, this review reeks of something very unpleasant, especially at the end.


do you know a most accurate input lag of FM S1?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crack*
> 
> Don't be scared, buy it and let us know how it is


need to wait europe release


----------



## SynergyCB

Waiting until they fix the click slam. I tend to pick up my mouse a lot when I make large swipes. Would be annoying in CSGO if my gun would shoot a bullet every time I swipe my mouse.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> do you know a most accurate input lag of FM S1?


I'm talking about methodology and representation of numbers. 10 ms difference IS a big deal. However if you add 180 to it, 180 vs 190 doesn't look like a big deal. If you add 1000 to it, 1000 and 1010 is negligible.

Lag should only be measured against another mouse or smth like arduino/teensy with proper debouncing.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Waiting until they fix the click slam. I tend to pick up my mouse a lot when I make large swipes. Would be annoying in CSGO if my gun would shoot a bullet every time I swipe my mouse.


Waiting? This won't be fixed for a very very long time


----------



## Crack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Waiting until they fix the click slam. I tend to pick up my mouse a lot when I make large swipes. Would be annoying in CSGO if my gun would shoot a bullet every time I swipe my mouse.


Call it 'one taps' so everyone can one tap like scream ^^


----------



## Melan

"One slams"


----------



## kashim

sorry guys but "slam click" happens every time or only if you slam the mouse with strong?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sorry guys but "slam click" happens every time or only if you slam the mouse with strong?


Only if you slam the mouse, will not happen by accident for most people, even if you lift a lot and have low sensitivity.


----------



## b0z0

Someone you may want to check out with YouTube reviews is Reckless Yuki


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sorry guys but "slam click" happens every time or only if you slam the mouse with strong?


It definitely doesn't have to be very strong. If you play low sensitivity and have to quickly turn 180 a lot(such as playing genji in OW), you will inevitably trigger it. As I said before, I put a towel underneath my mousepad, it helps. :\


----------



## Maximillion

_Finalmouse Scream One: Don't Forget Your Towel™_


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> It definitely doesn't have to be very strong. If you play low sensitivity and have to quickly turn 180 a lot(such as playing genji in OW), you will inevitably trigger it. As I said before, I put a towel underneath my mousepad, it helps. :\


i ll play cs go with 1000 edpi...800x1,25 huge lift only if i need to do 180° turn...


----------



## shaiaz

never had it accidently trigger


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Waiting? This won't be fixed for a very very long time


RIP


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> _Finalmouse Scream One: Don't Forget Your Towel™_


......For the tears


----------



## aayman_farzand

The slam click is being blown out of proportion. I game on a hard pad, I didn't activate it once.

CSGO at 0.85 sensi and 1600DPI. Pad is 16"x10".

I do have one complaint, the scroll loosened up a bit too much and I sometimes scroll down one notch too much.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> The slam click is being blown out of proportion. I game on a hard pad, I didn't activate it once.
> 
> CSGO at 0.85 sensi and 1600DPI. Pad is 16"x10".
> 
> I do have one complaint, the scroll loosened up a bit too much and I sometimes scroll down one notch too much.


You're playing 30cm/360 which isn't a very low sensitivity, but to be fair I didn't have the problem either and I play around 60cm/360 in CS:GO and 40cm/360 in OW.


----------



## kashim

ok when released in europe i should buy it...i really hope they release soon,or i buy another mouse....jude any news?


----------



## gunit2004

Is this so-called 2nd edition going to be a different color? That smurf blue is too much.


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is this so-called 2nd edition going to be a different color? That smurf blue is too much.


Finalmouse is aware that many would prefer a different color. My guess is that they need to wait until the demand is enough to financially justify adding more color versions. Why they would start with such a strong color that won't appeal to everyone is beyond me.


----------



## nodicaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is this so-called 2nd edition going to be a different color? That smurf blue is too much.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> Finalmouse is aware that many would prefer a different color. My guess is that they need to wait until the demand is enough to financially justify adding more color versions. Why they would start with such a strong color that won't appeal to everyone is beyond me.


I guess I'm in the minority, I really like that Smurf Blue colour.


----------



## hammelgammler

I have to say, I think it looks nice. And you I believe you won't see oil on blue that much. So I'm fine with it.


----------



## NovaGOD

Personally i don't care about the color i just want to know if this will ever be released in EU with the updated firmware ofc..


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> My guess is that they need to wait until the demand is enough to financially justify adding more color versions.


I mean, they justified selling the current S1 for 80 bucks







Which is beyond me. I can see Logitech getting away with that as you'll usually get what you pay for.
But the S1 is a way to simple mouse for that kind of money.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> I mean, they justified selling the current S1 for 80 bucks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is beyond me. I can see Logitech getting away with that as you'll usually get what you pay for.
> But the S1 is a way to simple mouse for that kind of money.


It's a good performer, but I fully-agree $80 for the build quality on that thing was very unacceptable. Even the revel/dm1 have better build quality for a much much lower price.

The S1 outperforms them and is more comfortable in my opinion but having 3 of them break within 2 weeks I mean come on. Even if it wasn't broken it still feels very flimsy.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's a good performer, but I fully-agree $80 for the build quality on that thing was very unacceptable. Even the revel/dm1 have better build quality for a much much lower price.
> 
> The S1 outperforms them and is more comfortable in my opinion but having 3 of them break within 2 weeks I mean come on. Even if it wasn't broken it still feels very flimsy.


3 of same batch?because i wanna know if the new one is better


----------



## shaiaz

Mine isn't breaking or anything and functions fine, the clicks are bad but that's just the quality of the shell. It's not the clicks being broken.

I quite like the it and use it as my daily driver


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Mine isn't breaking or anything and functions fine, the clicks are bad but that's just the quality of the shell. It's not the clicks being broken.
> 
> I quite like the it and use it as my daily driver


Then you're lucky? I used it for like 5-6 hours a day and it was dead in a week (double-clicking) or a broken LMB/RMB. Idk if I can be SO unlucky that 3 of them broke


----------



## kashim

i need new mouse and i m stuck between dm 1 pro s or wait screamone


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i need new mouse and i m stuck between dm 1 pro s or wait screamone


DM1 Pro S is better out of those two.


----------



## Maximillion




----------



## arcrox

My ideal would be a mouse with the shape of the S1, support like Nixeus, and build quality/click feel/software like Logitech. That's a mouse that's truly worth $80.


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> My ideal would be a mouse with the shape of the S1, support like Nixeus, and build quality/click feel/software like Logitech. That's a mouse that's truly worth $80.


My ideal = Zowie EC-2A Shape + Sensor/Buttons/RGB from Logitech + Price of a Nixeus mouse LUL


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> My ideal = Zowie EC-2A Shape + Sensor/Buttons/RGB from Logitech + Price of a Nixeus mouse LUL


Sounds about right


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> I've had both, and they're both pieces of ****.


then for you one good mouse with 3366 sensor,light,with great click and ambi?


----------



## Nivity

Well our Swedish retailers are selling the Scream one, so good distribution.
http://www.maxgaming.se/gaming-mus/finalmouse/scream-one-first-edition

It is quite expensive though, its more expensive then any other mouse like G pro, G403, Deathadder etc.

Double the price of the Revel (Which sadly only sells on Amazon EU







)
Appears to be a new batch though according to maxgaming facebook.

""We have gotten the lastest batch that came to them just 1 week ago, Finalmouse informed us that previous problems have been solved, we tested one and we did not have any of the previous problems (regards to clicks on slam, button stuck afaik)"

Not a mouse for me because its to big anyway.


----------



## kashim

best light mouse with medium/large size out now?


----------



## hammelgammler

850 Kronen = 115€?? Holy moly, I hope it's less on local german retailer. But good to see that it slowly shows up in Europe.


----------



## k2015

its actually 89€ euros.


----------



## NovaGOD

~94e including shipping if you are not living in Sweden.


----------



## Alya

So apparently there's a mouse that is either using the same shape as the FM or a very, very similar shape. Wheel gives away that it's probably the same ODM as well.





All credit goes to OCN user Shaiaz.


----------



## shaiaz

So I got the prohavit mouse and here's a mini review

It's a TINY BUT SMALLER; clicks are much better, scroll is about the same, mousefeet are better, The cable is stiff so about the same.

I think it has a little more smoothing ? Zowie 3310 Ish levels so it's still good.

According to the website it has a A3050 sensor, not sure really, feels clean, can't make it spin out even with a good swipe so I assume max tracking is 5+ meters per second

click delay is 17, scream one is 7.

If you have more questions feel free to ask =)

(Alya posted pics already 유 ㅅ 유)


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> (Alya posted pics already 유 ㅅ 유)


Beat you to it!


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> So apparently there's a mouse that is either using the same shape as the FM or a very, very similar shape. Wheel gives away that it's probably the same ODM as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All credit goes to OCN user Shaiaz.


Mouse name?


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> So apparently there's a mouse that is either using the same shape as the FM or a very, very similar shape. Wheel gives away that it's probably the same ODM as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All credit goes to OCN user Shaiaz.


Mouse name?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DRiMR*
> 
> Mouse name?


Here is a direct link https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-ms761-6-button-gaming-mouse/


----------



## ncck

Apparently the S1 will be available again next week for those interested


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Here is a direct link https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-ms761-6-button-gaming-mouse/


Thank you! Do you know weight of this mouse?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DRiMR*
> 
> Thank you! Do you know weight of this mouse?


It's pretty heavy







I think around 105g


----------



## nodicaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Apparently the S1 will be available again next week for those interested


Thanks ncck.

I'll most likely pick one up and see how I like it.
Never tried FinalMouse so it'll be interesting, but not going into it hyped.


----------



## BRS13

How long does it typically take support to return an e-mail? Contacted them 2 days ago about a button issue and nothing so far.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Apparently the S1 will be available again next week for those interested


Still only on Amazon and for US customers only?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Still only on Amazon and for US customers only?


On amazon yes, as for EU or NA I have no idea.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> On amazon yes, as for EU or NA I have no idea.


Hopefully they'll ship outside US this time.


----------



## readeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BRS13*
> 
> How long does it typically take support to return an e-mail? Contacted them 2 days ago about a button issue and nothing so far.


wrote them 2 emails 3 weeks ago and havent received any reply. Sucks when you have a broken mouse.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BRS13*
> 
> How long does it typically take support to return an e-mail? Contacted them 2 days ago about a button issue and nothing so far.


If it's clicks registering on lifts/lands I thought it wasn't going to be under warranty?

Or maybe I've misread what issue you have.


----------



## MFlow

Bad supporting, quality, firmware
Amazon will not deal with the fm for a while.


----------



## MFlow

Ah! There's one more.
A ridiculously high price


----------



## cnnd

But..but the one taps


----------



## kashim

guys i need help...i m coming from 4 ergo mouse...deathadder 3.5 - deathadder 2013 - g500 - g502...i have medium/large hand with size 19cm x 9.5cm,i play really competitive fps games like cs go with medium/low sens (1000 edpi)...looking for:
- lightest mouse possible
- medium/large size
- fastest click latency
- 3360/3366 sensor
- wanna try ambi shape because i hate angled shapes/with my g502 and i think ambi is more balanced
- my grip is 90%claw/10%palm grip hybrid with fingers almost completely stretched..i just touch the buttons with my fingertip

i think s1 is a good mouse for me,because have all i need but build quality is a problem....the problem is:any mouse with that quality but without this build quality?


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys i need help...i m coming from 4 ergo mouse...deathadder 3.5 - deathadder 2013 - g500 - g502...i have medium/large hand with size 19cm x 9.5cm,i play really competitive fps games like cs go with medium/low sens (1000 edpi)...looking for:
> - lightest mouse possible
> - medium/large size
> - fastest click latency
> - 3360/3366 sensor
> - wanna try ambi shape because i hate angled shapes/with my g502 and i think ambi is more balanced
> - my grip is 90%claw/10%palm grip hybrid with fingers almost completely stretched..i just touch the buttons with my fingertip
> 
> i think s1 is a good mouse for me,because have all i need but build quality is a problem....the problem is:any mouse with that quality but without this build quality?


maybe the logitech g pro? will take some getting used to for sure though because it's way smaller than your previous mice.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys i need help...i m coming from 4 ergo mouse...deathadder 3.5 - deathadder 2013 - g500 - g502...i have medium/large hand with size 19cm x 9.5cm,i play really competitive fps games like cs go with medium/low sens (1000 edpi)...looking for:
> - lightest mouse possible
> - medium/large size
> - fastest click latency
> - 3360/3366 sensor
> - wanna try ambi shape because i hate angled shapes/with my g502 and i think ambi is more balanced
> - my grip is 90%claw/10%palm grip hybrid with fingers almost completely stretched..i just touch the buttons with my fingertip
> 
> i think s1 is a good mouse for me,because have all i need but build quality is a problem....the problem is:any mouse with that quality but without this build quality?


g303?


----------



## MFlow

Is there anyone using the program to change the polling rate of scream one to 500hz?
Does it work properly?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Is there anyone using the program to change the polling rate of scream one to 500hz?
> Does it work properly?


You'd have to e-mail them but honestly it's pointless to use 500hz on this mouse, 1000hz works fine


----------



## BRS13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> If it's clicks registering on lifts/lands I thought it wasn't going to be under warranty?
> 
> Or maybe I've misread what issue you have.


The button is just loose. It has play in it without clicking on it. Just barely touching it, it will move a bit before you press hard enough to click. The right mouse button is solid with no play at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> wrote them 2 emails 3 weeks ago and havent received any reply. Sucks when you have a broken mouse.


Support got back to me today after a couple of day wait. They will be sending me a Scream One 2nd Edition for free due to the button issue I have on my current S1. Other than the small delay, I'm very happy with the solution they are providing. Well done Finalmouse!


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> maybe the logitech g pro? will take some getting used to for sure though because it's way smaller than your previous mice.


is so small for me...need some bigger :S


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> g303?


hate the shell


----------



## mikeeymike

I emailed their support a week ago, and they replied today:
Quote:


> Hello,
> 
> The Scream1 recently sold out in the US. We expect availability in the US in roughly 2 months time. There is no exact ETA for availability in Europe, the UK, Canada and Asia. We do expect as early as Q2, Q3 this year. Please follow our Twitter @Finalmouse for direct updates coming soon regarding these questions. We appreciate your patience!
> 
> Please keep in mind Classic Ergo, and Tournament Pro editions have been cancelled. New Scream editions will be releasing within Q2 of next year as well!
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support


----------



## hammelgammler

Lol if that's true. To quote from their twitter:

*"We will be kicking off the new year with a bang. Updated second edition s1's will be available worldwide in the coming week! Stay tuned" - @finalmouse*

How can any company get through with something like this? Didn't they promised it's availability dozen times now? I just want it to be available in Europe, and if it's really that hard, then why always "hype" consumer with statements like this?...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Lol if that's true. To quote from their twitter:
> 
> *"We will be kicking off the new year with a bang. Updated second edition s1's will be available worldwide in the coming week! Stay tuned" - @finalmouse*
> 
> How can any company get through with something like this? Didn't they promised it's availability dozen times now? I just want it to be available in Europe, and if it's really that hard, then why always "hype" consumer with statements like this?...


Saturday, January 28


----------



## Aventadoor

I might actually get a Scream1 now that Maxgaming are going to sell them in Scandinavia!
They have excellent service, free return, money back


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> How can any company get through with something like this?
> ...
> I just want it to be available in Europe


Well you sound like you'll buy one anyway. So there's your reason why they get through with it


----------



## hammelgammler

Well, as for now I'm totally going to buy one, but I buy a lot of other mice as well. And I'm kind of happy with my EC2 EVO CL once I mod it. So the more time goes, the less likely I'm going to buy one.


----------



## shaiaz

I am still using my scream one :/


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeeymike*
> 
> I emailed their support a week ago, and they replied today:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Lol if that's true. To quote from their twitter:
> 
> *"We will be kicking off the new year with a bang. Updated second edition s1's will be available worldwide in the coming week! Stay tuned" - @finalmouse*
> 
> How can any company get through with something like this? Didn't they promised it's availability dozen times now? I just want it to be available in Europe, and if it's really that hard, then why always "hype" consumer with statements like this?...


OMG europe shopping in q2 or next week??where is jude???i m really disappoined


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> OMG europe shopping in q2 or next week??where is jude???i m really disappoined


lol dude you've been obsessed with this mouse. I suggest don't buy it, especially if you're in Europe, it's not worth it. You can consider it in the future when all the issues are fixed and maybe the mouse gets a bit cheaper, but until then don't bother. Consider these:

Logitech G403
Logitech G Pro
DreamMachines DM1 Pro S
Nixeus Revel
Roccat Kone Pure 2017 (releasing soon I think)


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> lol dude you've been obsessed with this mouse. I suggest don't buy it, especially if you're in Europe, it's not worth it. You can consider it in the future when all the issues are fixed and maybe the mouse gets a bit cheaper, but until then don't bother. Consider these:
> 
> Logitech G403
> Logitech G Pro
> DreamMachines DM1 Pro S
> Nixeus Revel
> Roccat Kone Pure 2017 (releasing soon I think)


Ty for the reply..i m bot obsessed by this mouse,simply i love aimbi shape + light Wright + 3360/3366 sensor + low latency click + omron switch...
G403 is ergo and i wanna try ambi
G pro top small because i have 19x9.5 cm hands
DM pro 1 s or revel are both interessing bit which is the best, with less problema?
Roccat kone pure 2017 sound interessing,.
Guys logitech had released g203...semms a g pro with something differenti right?what s tue differenze?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Ty for the reply..i m bot obsessed by this mouse,simply i love aimbi shape + light Wright + 3360/3366 sensor + low latency click + omron switch...
> G403 is ergo and i wanna try ambi
> G pro top small because i have 19x9.5 cm hands
> DM pro 1 s or revel are both interessing bit which is the best, with less problema?
> Roccat kone pure 2017 sound interessing


If you think so, I can not help it.
G403 is also a good mouse for ambi Grip users.
Rather, the g403 is high, so not recommended to the authentic palm grip users.
For reference, I own s1 and recognize good shape and light weight.
not have a ghosting bug.
The problem is poor firmware,support and high price...


----------



## badben25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Ty for the reply..i m bot obsessed by this mouse,simply i love aimbi shape + light Wright + 3360/3366 sensor + low latency click + omron switch...
> G403 is ergo and i wanna try ambi
> G pro top small because i have 19x9.5 cm hands
> DM pro 1 s or revel are both interessing bit which is the best, with less problema?
> Roccat kone pure 2017 sound interessing


DM1 Pro S and Revel are both equal.

Ambi - yes
Lightweight - yes (both 85g)
3360 sensor - yes
Low latency click - yes (both 6ms)
Omron switch - yes

Both also come with choice of glossy or rubberised top.
DM1 Pro S size == Xai/Sensei size
Revel = a tiny bit smaller than DM1 Pro S

Buy whichever you like, or buy whichever is cheaper for you.

What MFlow says is correct, the G403 is not a 'strict' ergo, so it is easier to adjust to.

Personally, even if the FM Scream was fixed, I would still think 10 times before I give so much money to a company with a history like FM.


----------



## hammelgammler

Is the Tournament Pro really lighter then the Scream One? I'm currently searching for some infos, and found out the following:
Quote:


> The scream one will be coming a few weeks from now and will be equipped in two models. A 3310 version and a 3360 version which uses a new controller and custom implementation without the low pass filter. This will be unveiled in a couple weeks. 3360 weight is a bit heavier at 81-82 ish grams prewiring.


Regarding reviews, the Tournament Pro was - advertised - at 76g, and RocketJumpNinja weighted the S1 at 85g. Is there really a weight difference with both?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Is the Tournament Pro really lighter then the Scream One? I'm currently searching for some infos, and found out the following:
> Regarding reviews, the Tournament Pro was - advertised - at 76g, and RocketJumpNinja weighted the S1 at 85g. Is there really a weight difference with both?


first off that quote you quoted is ancient
second the mouse was never 76g, that weight is wrong and I'm not sure how they weighed it - most of been without the cable


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> most of been without the cable


That's how every company does it.


----------



## a_ak57

It wasn't just without cable, they did it unassembled, presumably without screws and the like. The TP is 86-88g done in the traditional method.


----------



## hammelgammler

Does someone has the Finalmouse and Zowie FK1+ and could give a brief comparison regarding the shape and coating?
I do have the FK1+, and really like the shape, but the coating is slippery with sweaty hands, and the right side buttons are a bit annoying.


----------



## t00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Does someone has the Finalmouse and Zowie FK1+ and could give a brief comparison regarding the shape and coating?
> I do have the FK1+, and really like the shape, but the coating is slippery with sweaty hands, and the right side buttons are a bit annoying.


There are some photos in this post:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one/1180#post_25389457


----------



## hammelgammler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t00t*
> 
> There are some photos in this post:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one/1180#post_25389457


That's great for the first time, but I would like some hands on experience. I thought a lot of mice were awesome just comparing pictures, but the coating make it unusable for me.

Oh and when I already asked, if theres someone that has the Nixeus Revel to compare the side coatings that would be awesome. I couldn't stand the Revel sides with sweaty hands, that was really really slippery for me to use, as well as the G Pro. But I heard the Finalmouse maybe has a little bit of coating on it or something?

The "only" thing I need to really know, if it's slippery with sweaty hands, at least medium sweat.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> If you think so, I can not help it.
> G403 is also a good mouse for ambi Grip users.
> Rather, the g403 is high, so not recommended to the authentic palm grip users.
> For reference, I own s1 and recognize good shape and light weight.
> not have a ghosting bug.
> The problem is poor firmware,support and high price...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badben25*
> 
> DM1 Pro S and Revel are both equal.
> 
> Ambi - yes
> Lightweight - yes (both 85g)
> 3360 sensor - yes
> Low latency click - yes (both 6ms)
> Omron switch - yes
> 
> Both also come with choice of glossy or rubberised top.
> DM1 Pro S size == Xai/Sensei size
> Revel = a tiny bit smaller than DM1 Pro S
> 
> Buy whichever you like, or buy whichever is cheaper for you.
> 
> What MFlow says is correct, the G403 is not a 'strict' ergo, so it is easier to adjust to.
> 
> Personally, even if the FM Scream was fixed, I would still think 10 times before I give so much money to a company with a history like FM.


Mmm...my hands are 19x9.5 cm i have a relaxed claw grip(near to palm,but i touch the buttons only with my fingertips on my g502)is g403 or gpro good for my prupose?i m scared they are too small for me...
Im stuck between this mouse,i add the prices
G pro 80 euro
G 203(difference between g pro?) 42 euro
G 403 68 euro
DM 1 pro s/nixeus revel 60 euro/ 43 euro


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Mmm...my hands are 19x9.5 cm i have a relaxed claw grip(near to palm,but i touch the buttons only with my fingertips on my g502)is g403 or gpro good for my prupose?i m scared they are too small for me...
> Im stuck between this mouse,i add the prices
> G pro 80 euro
> G 203(difference between g pro?) 42 euro
> G 403 68 euro
> DM 1 pro s/nixeus revel 60 euro/ 43 euro


Well, if your hands are 19 cm long, the probability that g pro will fit you is half.
My hand size is 17.5cm 9cm Hybrid Claw-Palm Grip. It is similar to your grip.
I have not used dm1 pro s but I have used revel and it has a good shape but I did not like the feeling of clicking the button.
The primary mouse for my fps use is g pro, g403, s1.

In fact, the size of your hand is similar to the size of the RJN's hand. His grip is Finger and Claw.

He likes a ambi mouse. If You see that he played Quake with the g403 mouse You will know why he placed the g403 as the top-ranked mouse even though he was not sponsored by Logitech.Check his video. Judgment is your part.
The human hand is sensitive, so I can not guarantee which mouse will fit in your hand.

G pro - braided cable, 3366sensor, 20m omron switch

G102 - rubber cable, mercury sensor, 10m omron switch


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Well, if your hands are 19 cm long, the probability that g pro will fit you is half.
> My hand size is 17.5cm 9cm Hybrid Claw-Palm Grip. It is similar to your grip.
> I have not used dm1 pro s but I have used revel and it has a good shape but I did not like the feeling of clicking the button.
> The primary mouse for my fps use is g pro, g403, s1.
> 
> In fact, the size of your hand is similar to the size of the RJN's hand. His grip is Finger and Claw.
> 
> He likes a ambi mouse. If You see that he played Quake with the g403 mouse You will know why he placed the g403 as the top-ranked mouse even though he was not sponsored by Logitech.Check his video. Judgment is your part.
> The human hand is sensitive, so I can not guarantee which mouse will fit in your hand.
> 
> G pro - braided cable, 3366sensor, 20m omron switch
> 
> G102 - rubber cable, mercury sensor, 10m omron switch


Ty for the tips then g403/dm1 pro s/nixeus revel/s1 are my top mouse....need to look between this..any tips or help?g pro or g203 are top small then ty for the tips


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Ty for the tips then g403/dm1 pro s/nixeus revel/s1 are my top mouse....need to look between this..any tips or help?g pro or g203 are top small then ty for the tips


You can not be sure of anything until you see the mouse. If you trust zy so, will you buy the g403 dm1 revel?
My acquaintance, who has a bigger hand than you, is also using his g pro and his main mouse.
The ranking of zy is just a reference. It is up to you to make a purchase decision.
It is recommended to visit the nearest gaming gear store in your house.

it is best to borrow a mouse and play some game. If possible....i'm sorry for this solution.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> You can not be sure of anything until you see the mouse. If you trust zy so, will you buy the g403 dm1 revel?
> My acquaintance, who has a bigger hand than you, is also using his g pro and his main mouse.
> The ranking of zy is just a reference. It is up to you to make a purchase decision.
> It is recommended to visit the nearest gaming gear store in your house.
> 
> it is best to borrow a mouse and play some game. If possible....i'm sorry for this solution.


i know mflow and you are right for sure!!!but i live in small city and don t have any gaming center near me...in italy gaming center are a rarity...then i need to follow opinions like zy or you guys...zy have a hands like mine,a little smaller and seem to like g403 and g pro more then revel end dm1 pro s
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> You can not be sure of anything until you see the mouse. If you trust zy so, will you buy the g403 dm1 revel?
> My acquaintance, who has a bigger hand than you, is also using his g pro and his main mouse.
> The ranking of zy is just a reference. It is up to you to make a purchase decision.
> It is recommended to visit the nearest gaming gear store in your house.
> 
> it is best to borrow a mouse and play some game. If possible....i'm sorry for this solution.


i had appreciated all your comments,the only problem is i live in italy and in my country game center are really rarety....then i don t have any game center near to me and need any possible opinion or tips buy you guys...zy have hand really similar to mine,a little bit smaller,him seems to like more small/medium mouse,i m, more oriented on medium size...then all the mouse are good and safe but
nixeus 45 euro
g403 65 euro
g pro 82 euro
are they equal or better then s1?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i know mflow and you are right for sure!!!but i live in small city and don t have any gaming center near me...in italy gaming center are a rarity...then i need to follow opinions like zy or you guys...zy have a hands like mine,a little smaller and seem to like g403 and g pro more then revel end dm1 pro s
> i had appreciated all your comments,the only problem is i live in italy and in my country game center are really rarety....then i don t have any game center near to me and need any possible opinion or tips buy you guys...zy have hand really similar to mine,a little bit smaller,him seems to like more small/medium mouse,i m, more oriented on medium size...then all the mouse are good and safe but
> nixeus 45 euro
> g403 65 euro
> g pro 82 euro
> are they equal or better then s1?


U like zowie fk lineup?
If fk fit in your hand, revel will be better choice than g pro.
G403 is complicated.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> U like zowie fk lineup?
> If fk fit in your hand, revel will be better choice than g pro.
> G403 is complicated.


i had tried deathadder - g500 - g502 - ec1(if i m right) all ergo mouse, but i wanna try ambi,because my last 2 fingers on the right side are on the mousepad(i think because of angled shape or ergo mouse),i have read ambi are better balanced,but for answer of your ask,no i never tryed fk







...why g403 is complicated?
is revel better or equal then dm1 pro s/s1?


----------



## MFlow

G403 is good and dislikes are divided clearly.
There are quite a few people who feel like stabbing their palms.
Zy especially likes fk, and I asked if U liked the fk lineup because the mice that Zy had in the top ranked


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Hello Roshan,
> 
> Second Edition should be available on Amazon within the week in the US!
> 
> Thanks,
> Finalmouse Support


24 hours ago, IDK why customer support gives completely different replies to different people :S


----------



## readeh

IDK why customer support answer some people, but ignores others.


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> 24 hours ago, IDK why customer support gives completely different replies to different people :S


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *readeh*
> 
> IDK why customer support answer some people, but ignores others.


Because FM never wastes an opportunity to demonstrate why they are rank amateurs in the gaming hardware business.


----------



## Hunched

You guys act like Logitech, Zowie, SteelSeries, or Razer have good customer support.









Everyone in this industry is pure garbage, stick around you'll see.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> You guys act like Logitech, Zowie, SteelSeries, or Razer have good customer support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone in this industry is pure garbage, stick around you'll see.


Literally never had a problem with Logitech or SS and Ive dealt with them quite a few times.. dont know what you are on about.. smh


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> You guys act like Logitech, Zowie, SteelSeries, or Razer have good customer support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone in this industry is pure garbage, stick around you'll see.


In the USA, Logitech CS is extremely good. Probably the best customer service I've had outside Amazon.


----------



## Dasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> You guys act like Logitech, Zowie, SteelSeries, or Razer have good customer support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone in this industry is pure garbage, stick around you'll see.


In my expirience Logitech's support was always top notch. No idea about SS or Razer.
Zowie's support was however the worst that I've ever had. Often they didn't even answer when you contact them about RMA and product issues. I glad i could sent their broken stuff to my reseller and let him deal with them. Maybe its changed after Benq bought them, no idea...


----------



## Maximillion

SS will probably have superb support once they finally get moved into the new warehouse.


----------



## Aventadoor

I just recently noticed that S1 doesnt have mouefeet around the sensor like pretty much all the other 336X mice, as per recommended by Pixart.
Anyone have comments regarding this?
Is the bottom shell very stiff?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I just recently noticed that S1 doesnt have mouefeet around the sensor like pretty much all the other 336X mice, as per recommended by Pixart.
> Anyone have comments regarding this?
> Is the bottom shell very stiff?


I mean it's made out of hard plastic like all my other mice


----------



## Aventadoor

Yes thank you that was very helpful...
Not.


----------



## shaiaz

I am really unsure what you mean, I am trying to push the bottom but I can't bend it at all


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I just recently noticed that S1 doesnt have mouefeet around the sensor like pretty much all the other 336X mice, *as per recommended by Pixart*.
> Anyone have comments regarding this?
> Is the bottom shell very stiff?


Never heard of this before, i can only recall some logitech comments about "sensor stability". Revel doesn't have a center feet and i'm pretty sure DM1-S doesn't either, i wouldn't worry about it tbh.


----------



## wareya

Basically it reduces the effect that pressure on your mouse on cloth mousepads has on your DPI. At least in theory, and IIRC qsxcv said he could reproduce it in a swipe test.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Basically it reduces the effect that pressure on your mouse on cloth mousepads has on your DPI. At least in theory, and IIRC qsxcv said he could reproduce it in a swipe test.


It does feel slightly lower dpi than my other mice at same dpi level, not sure if that's the thing


----------



## Bucake

without the foot, you physically bring the sensor closer to the surface if you press the mouse down on cloth, essentially changing dpi slightly. the foot around the sensor was a logical evolvement. i think we first saw it on the G100s? unless i've missed something..
well, i guess PTE mice had it before, but not really for the same reason


----------



## wareya

the mousepad still gets closer, just theoretically less

it also depends on the mousepad, how much of the cushion is pad springiness and how much is surface material tension


----------



## Bucake

i guess. but i assume the foot does its job well enough.
never bothered to test the foot, since i don't use cloth anyway. cloth is for noobs, i think abraham told isaac this as well


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i guess. but i assume the foot does its job well enough.
> never bothered to test the foot, since i don't use cloth anyway. cloth is for noobs, i think abraham told isaac this as well


I would totally use a hard pad if I had a mouse with trashy feet (aka not a Kinzu with replaced feet) and I had a bit more room than on my Manticor, but I'm not about to buy another pad just yet.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> without the foot, you physically bring the sensor closer to the surface if you press the mouse down on cloth, essentially changing dpi slightly. the foot around the sensor was a logical evolvement. i think we first saw it on the G100s? unless i've missed something..
> well, i guess PTE mice had it before, but not really for the same reason


imo, in pln mice the sensor foot increased click jitter.

other mice have had a sensor mouse foot before. like the hades h8 phorcy.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I would totally use a hard pad if I had a mouse with trashy feet (aka not a Kinzu with replaced feet) and I had a bit more room than on my Manticor, but I'm not about to buy another pad just yet.


yeah, money is money after all. i try to respect it, but slowly but surely my pile of pads just keeps on growing.

i wonder why most prefer cloth. feeling on skin? too little friction? sound?

the other day i realized how little feedback my glass pad gives me with regards to distance moved. the pad just always feels the same, regardless of pressure or speed you move at. when i use cloth, there's a direct connection, and it seems to satisfy my brain.
i sometimes find myself pushing unnecessarily hard down on hard pad and i assume the lack of feedback is why.
or maybe i've just lost it









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> imo, in pln mice the sensor foot increased click jitter.
> 
> other mice have had a sensor mouse foot before. like the hades h8 phorcy.


i always removed it, so i wouldn't know







i think the click jitter wasn't too bad using hard pad though. but putting pressure on the mouse could still move the cursor, oh PLN..

wasn't that some VT office mouse? weird that they bothered at all


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yeah, money is money after all. i try to respect it, but slowly but surely my pile of pads just keeps on growing.
> 
> i wonder why most prefer cloth. feeling on skin? too little friction? sound?
> 
> the other day i realized how little feedback my glass pad gives me with regards to distance moved. the pad just always feels the same, regardless of pressure or speed you move at. when i use cloth, there's a direct connection, and it seems to satisfy my brain.
> i sometimes find myself pushing unnecessarily hard down on hard pad and i assume the lack of feedback is why.
> or maybe i've just lost it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i always removed it, so i wouldn't know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the click jitter wasn't too bad using hard pad anyway. but putting pressure on the couse would still move the cursor, oh PLN..
> 
> wasn't that some VT office mouse? weird that they bothered at all


For me, I'm using a cloth pad because of the lack of space on my desk allowing me to actually place the pad over the base of my monitor if required, which I can't do with a hard pad because it's...hard...the cost of them, and the amount of mouse feet replacing I'll need to do. I actually much prefer hard pads because they feel a lot more consistent in their glide and there's a lot less static friction than on a cloth pad, but the cons outweigh the pros here.


----------



## Bucake

that's why you get you that custom pad, dawg. you get that friend with that CNC machine to fabricate you that specialized pad that leaves room for your monitor.
..to the drawing board!


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> that's why you get you that custom pad, dawg. you get that friend with that CNC machine to fabricate you that specialized pad that leaves room for your monitor.
> ..to the drawing board!


Now you're thinking with CNC mills, gotta use all of the resources I have access to.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i always removed it, so i wouldn't know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think the click jitter wasn't too bad using hard pad though. but putting pressure on the mouse could still move the cursor, oh PLN..


Well best example I can give is the Razer Spectre. With the feet removed click jitter was almost non existant on cloth pads. On a hard pad it was gone completely. Then I realized at 100dpi the z axis issue almost disappeared. I could finally enjoy using it.... Well, I thought that was the case until I very quickly learned I fixed one thing and introduced a whole slew of other problems.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> SS will probably have superb support once they finally get moved into the new warehouse.


Lold


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> SS will probably have superb support once they finally get moved into the new warehouse.


Are they still using that excuse for RMA's? Wow. I assumed they would have moved by now since my last RMA through them was 3 years ago.


----------



## hammelgammler

I finally got a Scream One (First Edition, but new Firmware) in Germany which seems to be one without major issues. Let's hope I found my endgame mouse.


----------



## leapstep

Does it have the slam-issue?


----------



## hammelgammler

The seller said the following: "The left side button only fires when slamming it really hard."


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I finally got a Scream One (First Edition, but new Firmware) in Germany which seems to be one without major issues. Let's hope I found my endgame mouse.


give some info after some test about slam,double click or other common problems,if u can send me a shop website on pm(i m italian)


----------



## paradoxals

I have confirmation that the Scream One will be available 100% in 2-3 weeks. My Tournament Pro Edition is broken, but luckily they'll be upgrading me to the new version of the Scream One. Here's the email I received about confirming that will be released for sure:


Let's hope they follow through with their planned release this time.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxals*
> 
> I have confirmation that the Scream One will be available 100% in 2-3 weeks. My Tournament Pro Edition is broken, but luckily they'll be upgrading me to the new version of the Scream One. Here's the email I received about confirming that will be released for sure:
> 
> Let's hope they follow through with their planned release this time.


What about that Chinese New Year?


----------



## roz133

Well they told me it will be available this week and told someone else that it will take 2 months so I wouldn't really be 100% sure about the availability till I see it in stock.


----------



## hammelgammler

Did anyone tried to use Hyperglides on the S1/TP? I may want to buy some, but as there are no official feets maybe someone tried the other ones you can buy.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Did anyone tried to use Hyperglides on the S1/TP? I may want to buy some, but as there are no official feets maybe someone tried the other ones you can buy.


I am using G pro hyperglides on it, I like them over stock and they fit surprisingly well


----------



## hammelgammler

Would you be able to post a photo of it? That would be great. I often search for something like this and it's hard to find anything, if at all.


----------



## shaiaz

Here you go


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Steelseries


Quote:


> Thank you for your interest in SteelSeries Professional Gaming Gear. This is a known issue and SteelSeries has already taken the necessary action to correct this problem. This is not an official fix, though other customers have found it successful, however please try this: Lift the left & right click mouse button up with your finger nail after half an inch until you hear a snap, then let go. If that doesn't help you, please go back to your original point of purchase to get a replacement unit or credit. If you bought it directly from us, please provide your order # on this request and we will contact you back for the RMA replacement once we have the replacement units in our warehouse. Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for understanding. Thanks, SteelSeries Support


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Are they still using that excuse for RMA's? Wow. I assumed they would have moved by now since my last RMA through them was 3 years ago.


Yeah I contacted them last year and they used it....and the year before.....and the year before. Lol I think their warehouse must be like the one from the end of Raiders Of the Lost Arc probably with a single one armed old guy pottering about.


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I am using G pro hyperglides on it, I like them over stock and they fit surprisingly well


Did the increased height of the feet(0.85mm) affected sensor performance in any way?? Have you tested it(with mousetester preferably)? I'll probably do the same setup but with IME 3.0 skates when and if my s1 arrives.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Did the increased height of the feet(0.85mm) affected sensor performance in any way?? Have you tested it(with mousetester preferably)? I'll probably do the same setup but with IME 3.0 skates when and if my s1 arrives.


S1 LOD is very high to begin with, doubt it would cause tracking problems.


----------



## hammelgammler

I got my First Edition S1 (updated firmware) today!









- no tilt-slam issue
- no problem regarding multiple buttons in Overwatch (any specific combos that may not work?)
- buttons are all really nice, although the mousewheel is a bit hard to press
- relatively high LOD (any way to lower it?)

I think I got a pretty good one, and I couldn't get it to activate when slamming it, it got so hard that I didn't want to test any further.









Edit:

- left mouse button is harder to press then right (would be great if that could be fixed)
- cable is really stiff, I finally need a Paracord if thats my endgame mouse


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I got my First Edition S1 (updated firmware) today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - no tilt-slam issue
> - no problem regarding multiple buttons in Overwatch (any specific combos that may not work?)
> - buttons are all really nice, although the mousewheel is a bit hard to press
> - relatively high LOD (any way to lower it?)
> 
> I think I got a pretty good one, and I couldn't get it to activate when slamming it, it got so hard that I didn't want to test any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> - left mouse button is harder to press then right (would be great if that could be fixed)
> - cable is really stiff, I finally need a Paracord if thats my endgame mouse


nice to hear that,i m stuck between s1,revel,g102 now...i m claw gripperwith 19x9cm hands


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> S1 LOD is very high to begin with, doubt it would cause tracking problems.


This is a deal breaker for me, i hate high LOD, i thought the LOD in every mouse with 3360 variant was low, even DAE with default settings.. Maybe i'll stack hyperglides on top of stock feet then.


----------



## k2015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I got my First Edition S1 (updated firmware) today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - no tilt-slam issue
> - no problem regarding multiple buttons in Overwatch (any specific combos that may not work?)
> - buttons are all really nice, although the mousewheel is a bit hard to press
> - relatively high LOD (any way to lower it?)
> 
> I think I got a pretty good one, and I couldn't get it to activate when slamming it, it got so hard that I didn't want to test any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> - left mouse button is harder to press then right (would be great if that could be fixed)
> - cable is really stiff, I finally need a Paracord if thats my endgame mouse


where did you get the S1 from ? iam also from germany







?


----------



## hammelgammler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *k2015*
> 
> where did you get the S1 from ? iam also from germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


One guy sold it on eBay.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> - left mouse button is harder to press then right (would be great if that could be fixed)


The shell actually meets the switch actuation point lower on m2 compared to m1, which is why m2 is lighter (and also the reason D2F01f/D2f-f37 isn't compatible).


----------



## NovaGOD

I assume D2FC-F-K(50mill) are compatible so you can use these, imo they feel the best.


----------



## James N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *k2015*
> 
> where did you get the S1 from ? iam also from germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


If you are from Germany then you are out of luck. When it will finally become available on the EU market, it will only be put on the UK Amazon page, which you can't order from unless you have a credit card (which is still uncommon in Germany). Even the classic Ergo is still sold out on the UK amazon page, tournament pro has never been on it.

So you will have to directly order it from the US, pay taxes and if there is something wrong with it, it will take 6 months to rma it.

Kinda funny, Scream is from EU and the mouse is not available here.

If you want to make money, order a bunch of them from the US and sell them on the German ebay for double the price.


----------



## SEJB

I thought they said the price would be lower when it launched on more places. More than 85 euros in Sweden.


----------



## kashim

Guys for relaxed claw grip and 19cm x 9cm hands do you think is better g102 or nixeus revel?both cost less then 50 euro shipped


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Guys for relaxed claw grip and 19cm x 9cm hands do you think is better g102 or nixeus revel?both cost less then 50 euro shipped


Kashim would be better off choosing revel than g102.
If you ask why, g102 's price in Korea is $ 20.
When I consider your hand size, especially the length of 19cm, revel is more recommendable.
Note that I do not like the feeling of clicking on two mice.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Kashim would be better off choosing revel than g102.
> If you ask why, g102 's price in Korea is $ 20.
> When I consider your hand size, especially the length of 19cm, revel is more recommendable.
> Note that I do not like the feeling of clicking on two mice.


i can buy g102 for 35 euro and revel for 45...g pro is like 85 euro here...then double the price of both mice...is worth it?i have same hand size of Ino and same grip,for him is perfect,RJN said gpro shape for claw is good for handsize 19cm... your suggestion Mflow?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i can buy g102 for 35 euro and revel for 45...g pro is like 85 euro here...then double the price of both mice...is worth it?i have same hand size of Ino and same grip,for him is perfect,RJN said gpro shape for claw is good for handsize 19cm... your suggestion Mflow?


No one can tell you what YOU will like. Just get revel from amazon.. if you like it, keep it. If not return it and buy g102 from ebay. G pro is overpriced now that g102/g203 is out


----------



## kashim

name="v0rtex-SI" url="/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one/3010#post_25782027"]
No one can tell you what YOU will like. Just get revel from amazon.. if you like it, keep it. If not return it and buy g102 from ebay. G pro is overpriced now that g102/g203 is out







[/quote]
not bad







...but anyway revel is bette then S1?because idf they fix and relase soon i can wait if is worth it


----------



## v0rtex-SI

S1 isnt even avi in Europe (I assume you arent from NA?) so even IF S1 is a bit better than the revel its not worth double or 3x the price of the revel.. just my


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> S1 isnt even avi in Europe (I assume you arent from NA?) so even IF S1 is a bit better than the revel its not worth double or 3x the price of the revel.. just my


if nixeus is selled by nixeus and shipped by amazon i can send it and cash back?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> if nixeus is selled by nixeus and shipped by amazon i can send it and cash back?


Of course.. Its amazon after all


----------



## kashim

i hate white version







...how is the surface?


----------



## c0dy

Then choose the black version?


----------



## kashim

cant only white...ordered already i ll try it if something is broke i send it back







,1 question if i change firmaware for 500hz or color dpi steps can send back to amazon anyway?


----------



## c0dy

eh. It's a beta firmware. You can just reflash the stock firmware. So if I were you, just reflash the stock firmware









But that's something for the Revel thread









To get back to FM,

why is it, that the S1 Second Edition apparently is available in roughly 2 weeks (information as of Jan 12th) while the prior info (on Jan 10th) says 2 months?










And that's not even the "Second Edition"







Also anything but US Q2/Q3 apparently?









And people still want to throw money at them.


----------



## ncck

Lol I'm so confused why they keep making release date announcements. Seriously their social media has coming week posts in both January and December. :S


----------



## roz133

To make the people who were interested wait and not buy something else maybe? TBH I know that they are NOT gonna get it out this week (I was told by email that they would) but here I am still waiting


----------



## kashim

sorry guys logitech g203 is EU g102 version?because i found it on amazon...do you think is worth it buy it and revel and send back the baddest?i think they are both great mouse right?or something better released soon?


----------



## Aventadoor

I preordered S1 from Maxgaming, hoping it would come tomorrow. But now I see its expected 27.01 instead. How more delays are we gonne get?
I think ill just cancel the preorder... For all I know there might be months of delay, in typical Finalmouse fashioN!


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> sorry guys logitech g203 is EU g102 version?because i found it on amazon...do you think is worth it buy it and revel and send back the baddest?i think they are both great mouse right?or something better released soon?


Yes, the G203 and G102 are the same mouse. Sensor performance of both the Logitechs and the Revel will be very good in the real world with the Revel being technically better on paper.

Personally, I'm waiting on the Ninox Venator. The shape is comfortable for me being similar to a ZA. I'm also waiting for the Kone Pure Military. Shape on that one is a dice roll for me because I've never held one.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brigand253*
> 
> Yes, the G203 and G102 are the same mouse. Sensor performance of both the Logitechs and the Revel will be very good in the real world with the Revel being technically better on paper.
> 
> Personally, I'm waiting on the Ninox Venator. The shape is comfortable for me being similar to a ZA. I'm also waiting for the Kone Pure Military. Shape on that one is a dice roll for me because I've never held one.


do you think revel is better in performance?mmmm...i don t think...for what I heard:
1) mercury sensor is equal or better then 3360
2) g203 click are faster (less input lag)but have less "life" (10m i think u will change mouse before then reaching them







)
3) better build quality
can someone reply for confirm that?


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I preordered S1 from Maxgaming, hoping it would come tomorrow. But now I see its expected 27.01 instead. How more delays are we gonne get?
> I think ill just cancel the preorder... For all I know there might be months of delay, in typical Finalmouse fashioN!


Also preordered from esportstore(same site afaik), i can wait until 1/27 but if they change it again then i'll cancel mine as well.


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brigand253*
> 
> Yes, the G203 and G102 are the same mouse. Sensor performance of both the Logitechs and the Revel will be very good in the real world with the Revel being technically better on paper.
> 
> Personally, I'm waiting on the Ninox Venator. The shape is comfortable for me being similar to a ZA. I'm also waiting for the Kone Pure Military. Shape on that one is a dice roll for me because I've never held one.


I didn't know about that Ninox mouse, any idea when it's going to be released? I can't seem to find much info.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> I didn't know about that Ninox mouse, any idea when it's going to be released? I can't seem to find much info.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gaming-mouse/3200
https://www.facebook.com/ninoxtech/?fref=ts


----------



## imdavidboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> 1) mercury sensor is equal or better then 3360


From my understanding from the post dedicated to the sensor, it's not necessarily that the Mercury sensor is better than the 3360 or it's variants. While it performs well at the lower more common DPIs most people on this forum use, the hype is based that someone else is doing what Pixart or Avago are doing without it actually being them. Less monopolization and more competition could be pretty exciting. From the price of the mice including the Mercury sensor we can assume the sensor could be much cheaper as well, which means cheaper gaming mice that don't have bad sensors could be more proliferated in the future.


----------



## SmashTV

Or that Mercury is just produced in a different way to allow cost savings. Remember that the 3366 was a joint venture of sorts.

I for one look forward to a sensor with Mercury capabilities and AM010 battery life. Or just wireless fusion. I'll take either.


----------



## SynergyCB

https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/OddSalamanderBatChest

ScreaM using what looks like a Red Scream One. Liking the red color more that the blue. Also not sure because of the 720p stream, but is there a ScreaM signature on it?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/OddSalamanderBatChest
> 
> ScreaM using what looks like a Red Scream One. Liking the Red color more that the blue. Also not sure because of the 720p stream, but is there a ScreaM signature on it?


I think this solidifies my decision to wait 1-2 years before looking at FM again.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/OddSalamanderBatChest
> 
> ScreaM using what looks like a Red Scream One. Liking the red color more that the blue. Also not sure because of the 720p stream, but is there a ScreaM signature on it?


Why they don't make one workimg version instead of three different ones?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Why they don't make one workimg version instead of three different ones?


They make more money like this.

Hype up a product that should've released years ago. Release it with problems not found in any other gaming mice. Release version with fixed problems and new colors and other stuff and be hailed as the god of gaming mice. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> They make more money like this.
> 
> Hype up a product that should've released years ago. Release it with problems not found in any other gaming mice. Release version with fixed problems and new colors and other stuff and be hailed as the god of gaming mice. Rinse and repeat.


So we can expect a red, white and blue version?


----------



## MFlow

We can not even expect a good mouse, is it okay to expect color?
so optimistic...


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Why they don't make one workimg version instead of three different ones?


What's currently broken about the mouse?


----------



## the1onewolf

The red looks nice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> We can not even expect a good mouse, is it okay to expect color?
> so optimistic...


The least I could expect to get is different colors.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So we can expect a red, white and blue version?


All I know is they're not getting my money until there's a vomit green color.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> All I know is they're not getting my money until there's a vomit green color.


Zombie themed version?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Zombie themed version?


With a Rob Zombie signature instead of Scream.


----------



## MFlow

I like this...


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> What's currently broken about the mouse?


Is there a working version out?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Is there a working version out?


I can't find a problem with mine.


----------



## hammelgammler

My one is fine as well, especially regarding the slam issue.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> What's currently broken about the mouse?


Do you have the second edition or the first?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Do you have the second edition or the first?


First batch.


----------



## kashim

acutally my nixeus just arrived and is wonderfull...click latency quite same of my g502...i today test it on csgo,really hope amazon.it release g203 soon for comparision,on paper g203 is better then revel?


----------



## shaiaz

I don't really have a problem with mine but I seem to not be so good at aiming with it soo, back to g303


----------



## hammelgammler

I'm using my S1 again, and I'm wondering why they didn't use the same coating on top for the sides? That would be much nicer to grip IMHO.


----------



## kashim

guys i have one problem....after play really intnsive for 1 day with revel i found ambi shape and light mouse work great for me,but now don t know if is worth it hold the revel or send it back to amazon and try g102/203...hand size 19x9cm claw grip,some tips?


----------



## arcrox

Mine still has the issue where it prevents my monitors from going to sleep. I have to unplug it when I'm not at my computer.

Other than that, it's pretty solid. Nitpicks: mine rattles, and it didn't when I first got it, so build quality is somewhat questionable. I haven't abused mine at all.

As far as design decisions, I'd like Logitech-esque clicks, mouse4 placed a little lower to make it easier to reach with my thumb, the coating on the sides to be the same as the top (it's way too slick), a flexible rubber cable, and no ScreaM signature.

Other than that, it's a very good mouse...just not $80 good--not even in the ballpark of worth $80, when you compare it to something like a $30 Nixeus Revel, which competes with the S1 on all fronts.


----------



## SynergyCB

https://clips.twitch.tv/eleaguetv/ModernPoultrySmoocherZ

Now it looks like the red mouse ScreaM is using is the ergonomic Final Mouse. Maybe Final Mouse is bringing back the ergonomic version with a better sensor.


----------



## tramas

Red version s1? I can't see clearly but maybe it is the "new version" ergo FM shape with 3360. Scream prefers ergo mice than ambi. He was using the DA before sign in with finalmouse.

Edit: lolz synergyCB posted seconds faster hahaha


----------



## MFlow

Hello,

The Scream1 recently sold out in the US. We expect availability on Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, and Amazon.co.uk in roughly 3-4 weeks. There is no exact ETA for availability otherwise. We do expect new edition mice as early as Q3 this year. Please follow our Twitter @Finalmouse for direct updates coming soon regarding these questions. We appreciate your patience!

Please keep in mind Classic Ergo, and Tournament Pro editions have been cancelled. New Scream editions will be releasing within Q2 of next year as well!

Thanks,
Finalmouse Support

Perhaps the ergo version mouse will appear before the color version of s1.?


----------



## tramas

Now i can bet my life it's an ergo shape.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> 
> 
> Now i can bet my life it's an ergo shape.


Well, I guess you could see it differently depending on the angle of taking pictures.
Do not bet your life ?


----------



## popups

Looks very tall. Probably too tall for me.

I still haven't tried any FM yet.


----------



## aayman_farzand

That really does look like an ergo. In the first picture the RMB is clearer lower than the LMB. GJ FM, great way to tease us.


----------



## FatalProximity

That ergo mouse just looks like a red G403... FM shot themselves in the foot by not getting their 3360 mice out quicker. Now there are so many options available.


----------



## t3ram

Which are this many?
Logitech mouse, dm 1 pro s/revel, da?


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Which are this many?
> Logitech mouse, dm 1 pro s/revel, da?


I'm assuming you're replying to me. There are also the new Roccat mice coming out very soon. Basically all of the other options are either significantly cheaper than final mouse or offer much better QC/support because they are large companies.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> That ergo mouse just looks like a red G403... FM shot themselves in the foot by not getting their 3360 mice out quicker. Now there are so many options available.


Yes i was replying to you but something is bugged on phone.
If the scream1 would have been made better from the start it wouldn't be such a problem with the price kone emp and g pro are also high priced


----------



## xmr1

Even the color looks so cheap. Looks like someone scribbled it on with a crayon.


----------



## Aventadoor

Scream One finally on its way from Maxgaming!
I hope I get it on monday.
Just pray that I get a unit without any faults.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Scream One finally on its way from Maxgaming!
> I hope I get it on monday.
> Just pray that I get a unit without any faults.


Are these really the second editions that Maxgaming has in stock? Thinking of getting one myself. If you happen to get it on monday, could you give some feedback here on how it is with the possible faults?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Also in stock in Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Finalmouse-Scream-One-Classic-Second/dp/B01MXMH1SL/ref=sr_1_1?m=A3FG85N1VEKVI5&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1485601495&sr=1-1

Pictures seem to be the same, did they ever mention the differences other than the new sig?

The scroll on mine is a bit loose.


----------



## ncck

The second edition is just the normal s1 with the firmware fixes for some of the bugs. It should still have the actuate upon force and scroll wheel going opposite directions. Don't quote me on that though

But clicking multiple buttons at the same time should work

They re uploaded it to get rid of the negative reviews lol...

edit: so who's going to be the test dummy? Heh.. lets stop joking it'll be me


----------



## NovaGOD

Got my tracking info also from maxgaming, hope i don't run into any game breaking problems as well.


----------



## nodicaL

I ordered two from Amazon.
Hopefully one of them will be a "perfect" copy.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Yes i was replying to you but something is bugged on phone.
> If the scream1 would have been made better from the start it wouldn't be such a problem with the price kone emp and g pro are also high priced


Indeed if it launched without issues (issues that primarily exist because of lack of testing - not referring to the overly sensitivity LMB/RMB or scroll wheel but rather the not being able to click multiple buttons - and those other issues beforehand as well. It'd probably be one of the top 3360 on the market. I found the shape to be very ideal for myself (the right side my only issue was my pinky was a bit bent) but the weight, shape, glide, sensor position, and click-delay were all performing so sick in-game

It's just that all of them broke.. literally all 3 of the ones I had (plus the braided cable does nothing but be annoying).. and the price is insane for what it is.. like a g900 for $84 I get it.. but this? Anyway I really do hope in the future they get some better factory or whatever the heck they need cause if their actual goal is to make the best 'all rounder' for ambi/ergo then by all means I hope they do... really terrible launch and PR statements but hopefully those change as the company grows.. assuming it does


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nodicaL*
> 
> I ordered two from Amazon.
> Hopefully one of them will be a "perfect" copy.


If you wanted one out of two mice to be perfect, one shouldn't be a S1.


----------



## nodicaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> If you wanted one out of two mice to be perfect, one shouldn't be a S1.


hahah yeah, I realize that only getting two isn't very good odds with the lack of QC on these mice.


----------



## Fluxify

What's the weight on the second edition?


----------



## imdavidboss

Did they always charge $79.99 for this thing? Damn...


----------



## Ashbury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> If you wanted one out of two mice to be perfect, one shouldn't be a S1.


yeah, feels bad. the activate buttons when lifting and setting down your mouse is a nonstarter for me; otherwise, I'd try this mouse out. it doesn't sound like a firmware update can fix that issue.


----------



## ticoversion1

I have an s1 updated firmware, and buttons activating accidentally never happen. pretty sure that was an overblown non issue. the mouse is good and the shape is amazing. the only issue is the price. but you technically are paying for better specs in each category. weight, latency, etc... all better than competitor mice. I'm going to try and do a video doing some performance tests compared to my 303


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ticoversion1*
> 
> I have an s1 updated firmware, and buttons activating accidentally never happen. pretty sure that was an overblown non issue. the mouse is good and the shape is amazing. the only issue is the price. but you technically are paying for better specs in each category. weight, latency, etc... all better than competitor mice. I'm going to try and do a video doing some performance tests compared to my 303


It's not better, it's on par. I can't find a single are where FMS1 would be significantly better than Revel while being 2x more expensive.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ticoversion1*
> 
> I have an s1 updated firmware, and buttons activating accidentally never happen. pretty sure that was an overblown non issue. the mouse is good and the shape is amazing. the only issue is the price. but you technically are paying for better specs in each category. weight, latency, etc... all better than competitor mice. I'm going to try and do a video doing some performance tests compared to my 303


never happens with you*

I've had it happen 3 times in live counter-strike matches with the first edition. One time blew my position and got me killed

I'll let others know if it's any better with the second version - actually I'll just update my old review thread and bump it to be for the second edition


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'll let others know if it's any better with the second version - actually I'll just update my old review thread and bump it to be for the second edition


I'm definitely curious if they did anything with the "second edition" other than just applying their newest firmware to the first edition.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> I'm definitely curious if they did anything with the "second edition" other than just applying their newest firmware to the first edition.


I'll find out Wednesday. If not this one then hopefully their future models won't suffer the issue. I do personally want to see higher quality mice come out in the future - they got the performance down now just the build quality/quirks and we've got a contender for people who favor things like zowie niche. I was also surprised to find out I liked the forward sensor position. You'd think it doesn't really make a difference but it does.


----------



## Aventadoor

I got the S1 today.
It said First Edition New on the box, but Maxgaming says its the 2nd edition.
Theres some rattling going on inside, not sure what it is. Dont have to swipe hard to make it happen.
Its not the scroll wheel and dont think its the lens.
Other then that the clicks are nice, so is the shape & weight.
Have not played enough to comment its sensor performance.


----------



## NovaGOD

Second edition is just with the upgraded firmware AFAIK, maybe they didn't bother to change the box, proper "second edition" should be one with different colors/no scream sig etc. That's just my theory if you have one with the updated fw.

I emailed maxgaming also when i pre-ordered and they told me they only got second editions of S1.


----------



## aayman_farzand

My friend got his Second Edition delivered, the mouse slam is still present.


----------



## t3ram

Does the Monitor go in sleep mode if the mouse is plugged in?


----------



## kashim

guys i have measured my hand size with RJN method....and my hand size is 19cmx10cm...do you think i can claw properly a g203?because i love ambi/light mouse (actually have revel) but i have like 20day for send it back on amazon for refound and buy g203....what do you think?is g203 better?

- build quality
- sensor
- click latency
- cord
- feet
- shape
i have relaxed claw grip(like Ino)


----------



## trhead

For Aussies its now available at PCCG https://www.pccasegear.com/products/37896/finalmouse-scream-one-second-edition-gaming-mouse

a bit pricey


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Does the Monitor go in sleep mode if the mouse is plugged in?


Since by all accounts, the "second edition" is the same mouse with the firmware update that all us "first edition" owners have, nothing should change there. FM haven't even acknowledged this as an issue. Apparently not everyone has the bug, but it's confirmed by several users.


----------



## Aventadoor

Anyone else have something rattling inside their S1?
I'm curious to find out what it is. But I wont open it up cause im most likly sending it back.
Cant pay 95 euro for a mice with audible rattling, even when swiping at lower speeds...


----------



## kashim

guys i have measured my hand size with RJN method....and my hand size is 19cmx10cm...do you think i can claw properly a g203?because i love ambi/light mouse (actually have revel) but i have like 20day for send it back on amazon for refound and buy g203....what do you think?is g203 better?

- build quality
- sensor
- click latency
- cord
- feet
- shape
i have relaxed claw grip(like Ino)


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys i have measured my hand size with RJN method....and my hand size is 19cmx10cm...do you think i can claw properly a g203?because i love ambi/light mouse (actually have revel) but i have like 20day for send it back on amazon for refound and buy g203....what do you think?is g203 better?
> 
> - build quality
> - sensor
> - click latency
> - cord
> - feet
> - shape
> i have relaxed claw grip(like Ino)


If you really want a ambidextrous mouse with a top sensor the scream1 should be on your list even if it's very expensive for the quality.
The g203 is surely another good option but i would say it could be to small, I've had the g-pro and accidentally clicked the sidebuttons and i have the same handsize as you.


----------



## kashim

can t buy in europe...


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> If you really want a ambidextrous mouse with a top sensor the scream1 should be on your list even if it's very expensive for the quality.
> The g203 is surely another good option but i would say it could be to small, I've had the g-pro and accidentally clicked the sidebuttons and i have the same handsize as you.


yes i really like all of scream one but so much problems...is like a nixeus revel with better click(probably because lmb and rmb are separated from shell)...like g203...you claw grip the mouse too?


----------



## muso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> For Aussies its now available at PCCG https://www.pccasegear.com/products/37896/finalmouse-scream-one-second-edition-gaming-mouse
> 
> a bit pricey


Jesus Christ, i want one but i dont $120 want one.
I wonder aswell if these are really second editions or they just got rid of the first editions and shipped them off here.

Any word on the 2nd editions issues? someone said the slam thing till happens.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> can t buy in europe...


why?

https://www.esportstore.com/mice/finalmouse/scream-one-second-edition-1


----------



## mikeeymike

Available in Amazon EU !

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?merchant=A25YKCUL7ZLZ9P


----------



## VikingNipples

Only rattle in mine is the Scroll wheel. When I hold my finger on it an shake there is no rattle present.
But on mine the stress relief that hold the cable in place was loose, until I turned it 180 degrees and it was all good. 

Image to describe.


----------



## VikingNipples

Image to describe.[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Anyone else have something rattling inside their S1?
> I'm curious to find out what it is. But I wont open it up cause im most likly sending it back.
> Cant pay 95 euro for a mice with audible rattling, even when swiping at lower speeds...


----------



## ncck

I got it today, I have a rattle but I believe it's coming from the stress reliever/cord - scroll wheel has no rattle

Anyway this one appears to have no major QC problems - all buttons clicking and clacking as they should - the same press thing was fixed.

The scroll wheel going reverse when you scroll fast is still there so I assume that's a hardware problem and can't be fix with firmware. So here's to hoping this one lasts.. lol

@FM - rubber cable next time. Seriously.


----------



## Aventadoor

Yeah my scroll wheel is not the cause of the rattle. Its something inside it. Not the clicks, buttons or lens so idk. Kinda shame, as id keep it if dident rattle.
Rattling is the worst thing I know


----------



## kciN

Got the "second edition" from Amazon today.

You can still make left or right click activate by dropping the mouse. I haven't had it happen while actually playing yet, but it's still there.
If you scroll quickly it freaks out and doesn't really scroll at all.
Dumbest of all though, if you hold down left or right click and then press mouse button 4 it actually presses mouse 5.

$80 lol


----------



## James N

On the UK amazon page it is 93€ without shipping and can only be paid via credit card (which is still uncommon is most EU countries)

And on the esportstore it sums up to a total of 115€ shipping and vat included.(and i don't want to know how long it will take when you have to rma the mouse and get a replacement.)

Very few customers can actually use the UK Amazon page. This sucks for the European market, since the classic was also only available for 4 weeks and was then out of stock forever(and the tournament pro was never available at all).

If you are from Europe but not from the UK you can basically order from Finalmouse in the US directly.

And all that with a mouse that was designed for a European player.

Reading about the questionable build quality it seems like it is not worth the hassle.

Especially when there are mice like the G403/gpro/dm1pro s/ revel / g303 and such for far less than the S1.


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kciN*
> 
> Got the "second edition" from Amazon today.
> 
> You can still make left or right click activate by dropping the mouse. I haven't had it happen while actually playing yet, but it's still there.
> If you scroll quickly it freaks out and doesn't really scroll at all.
> Dumbest of all though, if you hold down left or right click and then press mouse button 4 it actually presses mouse 5.
> 
> $80 lol


It sounds like you may have not gotten a unit with the latest firmware. I'd try updating to see if it fixes your L/R + M4 = M5 issue.

The "Second Edition" is more like a "First Edition", because the "First Edition" was a beta test.

Oh, and for those of you with elusive and perplexing rattling in your units, I think I may have isolated the source: it's the sound of G2's hopes of getting out of groups at the major.


----------



## Elrick

It's finally on sale here in Convict Town (go figure)







.

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/37896/finalmouse-scream-one-second-edition-gaming-mouse

Just bought mine so really looking forward to this one because this will be my very FIRST mouse from these guys.

Unbelievable that they would finally be selling here when for a long time Amazon was the ONLY place to get them. Thanks PCCG, love you even more now.


----------



## kciN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> It sounds like you may have not gotten a unit with the latest firmware. I'd try updating to see if it fixes your L/R + M4 = M5 issue.


I assumed it came with the newest firmware. I just updated it and that seems to have fixed it.


----------



## ticoversion1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> never happens with you*
> 
> I've had it happen 3 times in live counter-strike matches with the first edition. One time blew my position and got me killed
> 
> I'll let others know if it's any better with the second version - actually I'll just update my old review thread and bump it to be for the second edition


That's weird. I tested mine and I really had to slam it on my desk to get the buttons to activate. Nothing with a natural gaming motion


----------



## ncck

I haven't had it occur normally with this one was referring to my original unit. All I have now is a minor rattle noise which can't be felt physically and the scroll wheel going backwards when scrolling fast

So for their next product, fix the scroll, fix the actuation, and get A rubber cable and it should be alright. I use it simply cause the shape works for me same with it's sensor position


----------



## kciN

After using the mouse for a few hours the scroll wheel has started making a very loud rattling noise. Every time I do a quick swipe I can feel the scroll wheel smashing side to side. Basically makes the mouse unusable.


----------



## davidtran007

Got my mouse yesterday. Here are my findings.

The clear seal on the top of my box was cut and a new second edition barcode label was placed over a first edition label on the back. This means they manually updated all the first edition firmwares and placed them back in the box. Not sure if there were any tweaks to the physical hardware.

As far as flaws go, reverse scrolling is definitely an issue when scrolling too fast. My monitor will not go into sleep mode either while this mouse is plugged in.

My mouse has no rattling, noise, or cable issue. The auto clicking when slamming the mouse is definitely something that is over exaggerated. Unless some hardware tweaks were done, one would really have to slam the mouse down (like raging hard) for the auto click to happen. I think some were complaining about the LEDs staying on while the computer was off? I don't have that issue either but my motherboard BIOS is configured to turn off power to any USB ports once the computer is off.

Worth $80? Can't say at the moment but I'm going to use it for another week or two and see if I find any other flaws. I have a Artisan Hayate Otsu pad coming to see how they will pair together


----------



## muso

What are the mouse feet like? are they as good as hyperglides or hotline skates. I wouldn't mind getting one when they drop in price and they fix the issues but i donno if the glide will be as good as the mice i've put 3rd party feet one.


----------



## Aventadoor

My unit doesnt really have that scroll issue that bad. I get it slightly every now and then, but nothing bothersome. Neither do I scroll that fast.
However, I can feel some vibration in the M2 button when scrolling forwards.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> What are the mouse feet like? are they as good as hyperglides or hotline skates. I wouldn't mind getting one when they drop in price and they fix the issues but i donno if the glide will be as good as the mice i've put 3rd party feet one.


They don't require third parties, it's a 2x2 setup. You can replace them but they're fine out of box. Hopefully they keep the skate layout and skate material for all future products cause that's one thing I don't have any complaint about


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidtran007*
> 
> Got my mouse yesterday. Here are my findings.
> 
> The clear seal on the top of my box was cut and a new second edition barcode label was placed over a first edition label on the back. This means they manually updated all the first edition firmwares and placed them back in the box. Not sure if there were any tweaks to the physical hardware.
> 
> As far as flaws go, reverse scrolling is definitely an issue when scrolling too fast. My monitor will not go into sleep mode either while this mouse is plugged in.
> 
> My mouse has no rattling, noise, or cable issue. The auto clicking when slamming the mouse is definitely something that is over exaggerated. Unless some hardware tweaks were done, one would really have to slam the mouse down (like raging hard) for the auto click to happen. I think some were complaining about the LEDs staying on while the computer was off? I don't have that issue either but my motherboard BIOS is configured to turn off power to any USB ports once the computer is off.
> 
> Worth $80? Can't say at the moment but I'm going to use it for another week or two and see if I find any other flaws. I have a Artisan Hayate Otsu pad coming to see how they will pair together


Got mine today and it's the same for me. Seal was opened, but I still had the first edition barcode label. I haven't played with it yet, but no issues so far. The buttons feel similiar to G Pro, a bit too tacticle for my liking.

I will get back and give my proper opinion after some proper use.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeeymike*
> 
> Available in Amazon EU !
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?merchant=A25YKCUL7ZLZ9P


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Got mine today and it's the same for me. Seal was opened, but I still had the first edition barcode label. I haven't played with it yet, but no issues so far. The buttons feel similiar to G Pro, a bit too tacticle for my liking.
> 
> I will get back and give my proper opinion after some proper use.


if u can say your handsize and grip style please,because i m stuck between g pro or s1,actuallt try the revel but don t like so much


----------



## Aventadoor

S1 is alot bigger then G Pro. Alot.
Its a taller sensei, kinda.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> if u can say your handsize and grip style please,because i m stuck between g pro or s1,actuallt try the revel but don t like so much


I adapt my grip style to a mouse and not the other way around, but I would say it's a hybrid of claw/palm. My hand is 19cm and the S1 definitely isn't too big, feels almost the same as Revel.

Only negatives for now on the S1 are the ugly signature and the surface, it isn't as grippy as I would like it to be.


----------



## muso

About size, i'm using a g900 which fits me really well and a gpro which is abit too small. My hands are 20cm. I was wondering if the S1 would still be too small? I think the death adder i had is like 127? maybe...

i find the zowie fk too small.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Only negatives for now on the S1 are the ugly signature and the surface, it isn't as grippy as I would like it to be.


The "Signature" is it painted on or part of the plastic housing?


----------



## trhead

I received my 2nd edition from pccasegear but on the box it says "1st edition". How can I check that its 2nd edition?

EDIT: M4/M5 work while M1 and M2 are pressed so I guess its the latest edition.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> I adapt my grip style to a mouse and not the other way around, but I would say it's a hybrid of claw/palm. My hand is 19cm and the S1 definitely isn't too big, feels almost the same as Revel.
> 
> Only negatives for now on the S1 are the ugly signature and the surface, it isn't as grippy as I would like it to be.


same hand size and grip...i have relaxed claw gripwith 19x10cm hands RJN method....i find the revel quite good for me but i think performance are lesser then s1 or g203


----------



## nodicaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> About size, i'm using a g900 which fits me really well and a gpro which is abit too small. My hands are 20cm. I was wondering if the S1 would still be too small? I think the death adder i had is like 127? maybe...
> 
> i find the zowie fk too small.


I've used my G900 for a couple of days before I received my Scream One, and I think S1's size is very similiar.
You won't have problems transitioning.
My hand size is 20.5 x 10.5 just to show that the mouse it isn't too small.

I still want to use this mouse for about another week before giving my full impressions.


----------



## Straifer

I have to say I decided to buy a S1 going into it knowing there were issues. I've been using a G403 w/ Para cable + EC2-A skates prior to testing the S1.

Results - Cons
- I do not like the S1. I've found a few weird issues with it within only a few hours.
- It does slam shoot but you do have to give it a good smack.
- Cable stiffness is on par with the cord on my G502 and being a much lighter mouse.. not good. ( I have already debraided the cable and sadly there's no big difference. )
- LED lights are shockingly bad. Way to bright and no where near enough frosted plastic to stop the glare.
-The last one and most important. There is something I cannot quite figure out with the sensor, I believe it's overadjusting after I finish a 'flick' movement. I'll attempt a small picture to explain what I mean.

|

| -> |

|<-

Basically what I'm trying to show is that if I flick right x distance it moves back left x distance. I switch to my G403 and there is no issue on the same DPI/sens

Results - Pros
- Feels amazing! I love the grip. 22/11 hand in sort of fingertip grip.
- Skates are awesome.
- Clicks are on point. It actually feels more reactive to me than the G403 ( I feel my G403 was a factory return because it has a soft left click. )

I hate to sound like I'm just being a dick about it because everything but the sensor issues I could happily work with. I believe maybe there's something to do with the DPI being out of whack. I'm going to look into how I can test that to see if that's perhaps my issue.


----------



## shaiaz

Im curious, has anyone tried to open it up and mod it? Perhaps try and swap the switches or do something so they're not so horrible


----------



## NovaGOD

I'll try to do it if i ever receive mine, local post office seems to hate me lately, so many lost packages.














I hope this in not the case with S1 and they're just late, arrived at destination country at 31/01 but no delivery or notice yet.

I'll replace the switches and possibly the cable(if g403 paracord is compatible) with d2fc-f-k or d2fc-f-7n and also use hyperglides.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> I'll try to do it if i ever receive mine, local post office seems to hate me lately, so many lost packages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this in not the case with S1 and they're just late, arrived at destination country at 31/01 but no delivery or notice yet.
> 
> I'll replace the switches and possibly the cable(if g403 paracord is compatible) with d2fc-f-k or d2fc-f-7n and also use hyperglides.


If this is possible this could be very close to a good mouse for me, currently liking the shape a lot, but the scroll and cable aren't too great, the switches are 'ok'

I'm not sure if I'm willing to open mine just yet :/


----------



## kashim

guys please help me to pick best mouse between this:

- g102/203

- s1

- revel matte

my handsize is 19x10 claw grip relaxed (not so angled finger)...need to send back my revel because i bought white glossy version and i hate it...which have better performance?(click latency,sensor,less problems,quality)


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> guys please help me to pick best mouse between this:
> 
> - g102/203
> 
> - s1
> 
> - revel matte
> 
> my handsize is 19x10 claw grip relaxed (not so angled finger)...need to send back my revel because i bought white glossy version and i hate it...which have better performance?(click latency,sensor,less problems,quality)


If you already have a revel and don't like the SHAPE, why consider it ?

g102/203 is smaller than the s1. s1 is taller and fills hand more good for claw


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> If you already have a revel and don't like the SHAPE, why consider it ?
> 
> g102/203 is smaller than the s1. s1 is taller and fills hand more good for claw


i don t like glossy but can buy matte version ^^...g103 have better click latency/quality/cord?


----------



## ncck

Logitech has better quality and probably a better cord but braided is annoying regardless

I believe s1 has lower latency. If FM quality goes up over the years they'll probably be a top contender for simplistic competitive mice. They can start with a damn rubber cable lol

Logitech has the resources but idk. I love Logitech products but always find a gripe with them. G900 was my favorite out of the latest releases but the weight and glide got to me eventually

G pro was nice but the shape was a little small and the cable negated the nice light weight a fair amount


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Logitech has better quality and probably a better cord but braided is annoying regardless
> 
> I believe s1 has lower latency. If FM quality goes up over the years they'll probably be a top contender for simplistic competitive mice. They can start with a damn rubber cable lol


then u think is better buy

- revel matte

- g203

- s1?

and why?


----------



## shaiaz

Revel is 'smaller' than S1 and the logitech ones are even smaller, so depends on what you want


----------



## menismyforte

WE BACK BOYS

enjoy


----------



## ncck

Kashim you have to find out on your own. It's preference in the end. What I like you might hate

My hands are big, I have a certain style, and I play niche hardcore shooters with like 100 players.. in the end you'll like what you'll like

I don't know your preference or hand size or your budget or what type of games you play

FM is expensive and risky. It's like using a beta product. Logitech is quality but drawbacks and small. Revel is a good safe starter that's cheap as well. It's up to you


----------



## popups

So if I buy a Scream1 I can expect it to still be broken?


----------



## gunit2004

Got the 2nd editon. It is my first mouse from Finalmouse and I approached the purchase with caution and low expectations due to all the complaints. Avoided the 1st edition completely to avoid all the problems. Most recent mouse used is the wireless G403.

Anyways, impressions so far:

- Good weight and shape. Really fills the hand nicely and wide enough to grip well. Rubberized texture on top feels nice. Plastic on the sides is decent and doesn't feel like cheap crap.

- Mouse wheel is average. Not bad, not the best either. I can work with it. I would never scroll fast enough to get that scroll down going up issue so it is a non-issue to me.

- Great skates and glides really well on a Artisan Hayate Otsu pad.

- I got a decent copy without any glaring issues that call for an immediate return. Right click has a louder noise to it when it returns to normal position after being pressed but this isn't bad enough to warrant a return. Actuation on both feels similar.

- I am not finding the cable to be as bad as people are stating here?? Especially the ones comparing it to Logitech's latest cables. I find the S1 cable to be much better than the stiff piece of crap cable found on G502, G303 G Pro. S1 cable is braided but it is much thinner than Logitech cables and manageable with a bungee.

- Really wish LED could be disabled. Not a fan of always on lighting.


----------



## Lujer

I have recieved my S1 today, it did state first editon on the box, however the seal was broken and the mouse doesn't have issues pressing buttons simultaneously, so I guess it must be second editon.

Right and left click feels and sounds just about the same, if there's any difference it's not one that i can tell of.

I can't get mine to scroll up the page while I scroll down fast, and since i normally scroll fairly slow/normal, it wouldn't have been an issue for me anyways.

The side buttons feels the same when i press them, but the backclick has a higher pitched sound if that makes any sense.

I can do the slam fire, but so far it haven't been happening while playing, although i know it will cause it did happen once in awhile on my old mouse.

The only issue on mine, is the exact same as VikingNipples where the stress relief that hold the cable in place is loose.
The cable itself is pretty stiff, but I'm using a zowie camade, so it doesn't bother me so far.

So all in all, no big problems and i'm fairly happy for my purchase, been trying out alot of mouse lately at friends and stores to try and find one that fit me, but no mouse is of course perfect.

And just in case anybody wants to know, i upgraded from a roccat kone xtd, so in terms of weight, sensor, buttons etc, it's a fairly good upgrade in my book.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Kashim you have to find out on your own. It's preference in the end. What I like you might hate
> 
> My hands are big, I have a certain style, and I play niche hardcore shooters with like 100 players.. in the end you'll like what you'll like
> 
> I don't know your preference or hand size or your budget or what type of games you play
> 
> FM is expensive and risky. It's like using a beta product. Logitech is quality but drawbacks and small. Revel is a good safe starter that's cheap as well. It's up to you


ty for the reply...my hand size are 19x10cm and i grip with claw grip style...if i can grip g203 properly this is better then revel?(PERFORMANCE)


----------



## m0uz

lol 80 quid

That's my input for today. G'night folks.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> ty for the reply...my hand size are 19x10cm and i grip with claw grip style...if i can grip g203 properly this is better then revel?(PERFORMANCE)


I mean if you're full claw you would like the g303 over the g pro/203

Revel can be held any way you want and scream works for palm or even a half claw. But if you're full claw then g303 should be a top contender. Idk you check it out and see what you think

The braided cable on the FM can feel much worse depending on your mouse pad. Some mouse pads don't like braids so when they make contact they cause heavy friction. Other pads may barely cause any cable friction. So depending on that it may or may not be an issue to you.

For example on an artisan hien or qck heavy a Logitech cable feels OK. Move to a gsr or taito and the braid contact begins to feel like a nightmare


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I mean if you're full claw you would like the g303 over the g pro/203
> 
> Revel can be held any way you want and scream works for palm or even a half claw. But if you're full claw then g303 should be a top contender. Idk you check it out and see what you think
> 
> The braided cable on the FM can feel much worse depending on your mouse pad. Some mouse pads don't like braids so when they make contact they cause heavy friction. Other pads may barely cause any cable friction. So depending on that it may or may not be an issue to you.
> 
> For example on an artisan hien or qck heavy a Logitech cable feels OK. Move to a gsr or taito and the braid contact begins to feel like a nightmare


nice info bro







...i have relaxed claw grip (half claw like you call it ^^),i pair my mouse with mouse bungee and qck heavy(think to replace it with gsr,someone said is better i wanna try)


----------



## menismyforte

i mean, mine was as you can see

and i seriously doubt i got the only unit that wasn't updated

"second edition"

what a joke


----------



## dakuzo

Didn't like the signature so replaced the m1/m2 buttons with a broken tournament pro I had laying around.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> 
> Didn't like the signature so replaced the m1/m2 buttons with a broken tournament pro I had laying around.


How did you do that ? did the buttons just come off and could be replaced as easy as I think ?
Looks funky though


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> How did you do that ? did the buttons just come off and could be replaced as easy as I think ?
> Looks funky though


I agree it does look a little odd. Disassemble the mouse. Inside the top portion of the shell there are tabs that hold in the lower portion of the shell. Just need to push back the tabs for the bottom part of the shell. The tabs are pretty stiff, but nothing really difficult about swapping the parts.


----------



## notzi

How reliable is the scroll wheel? Does it get stuck between the steps and randomly activate it when pressing m1 or moving the mouse?

I'm using EC2-a and got fed up.

Edit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3DBTYYIMZBCLN/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_btm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01MXMH1SL#wasThisHelpful

What a bummer.


----------



## Straifer

So, I've solved the cable issue by repinning a G403 Polyester Cable from Ceesa. I did manage to ruin the skates in the process of doing so though. I'm now using FK1 skates as a temp. fix.
Just a tip for others pulling apart the mouse - only the back feet need to be removed to access any screws to dismantle.

I'm still having issues with either lift off distance or something strange with the DPI.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straifer*
> 
> So, I've solved the cable issue by repinning a G403 Polyester Cable from Ceesa. I did manage to ruin the skates in the process of doing so though. I'm now using FK1 skates as a temp. fix.
> Just a tip for others pulling apart the mouse - only the back feet need to be removed to access any screws to dismantle.
> 
> I'm still having issues with either lift off distance or something strange with the DPI.


Could be because there is no feet around the sensor. Did ythe g403 cable fit in the s1 ?


----------



## kashim

guys i have read mercury sensor is better then the other because have less smooting,then i ordered g203 on amazon for compare it with my revel and hold the better







...really hope g203 have better performance and less click latency


----------



## GHADthc

So what's the general consensus on this mouse, any good? It's recently become available in Aus, and I'm curious about it.

What is top dog of all these new slew of mice that have come out so far?


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Im curious, has anyone tried to open it up and mod it? Perhaps try and swap the switches or do something so they're not so horrible


Not sure what horrible issue you are referring to but I swapped 2 types of Omrons on the first edition to try to minimize of the slam bug. The clicks feel better with Japanese Omrons but didn't help the slam clicks.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> So what's the general consensus on this mouse, any good? It's recently become available in Aus, and I'm curious about it.


I own or tried pretty much all the 366x mice. Personally, if S1 didn't have all the issues, it would be the best mouse period. There is something about the combination of its shape, weight and latency that improved my aim quite a bit. That said the issues are not something to overlook if you are thinking of purchasing one.


----------



## menismyforte

Because people like Rocket Jump Ninja are pretending that the video I posted of the 2nd Edition wasn't clear enough, the Scream One 2nd Edition I received was not a newly manufactured item. It was a refunded 1st Edition that Final Mouse was supposed to have the updated firmware on it - as if I couldn't have just done that myself. They were going to ship it out to someone and call it a "2nd Edition" because this company holds the opinion that releasing an update to its customers to *fix a broken product* constitutes the label "new edition". *The mouse has absolutely no new features*. Firmware to make a mouse function properly is not a "new feature". FinalMouse is an apathetic company whose only goal is to make a profit off of unsuspecting and ignorant buyers.

*Don't waste your money.* The 2nd Edition is literally the same thing they were selling 3 months ago. The only difference is they're installing the firmware to fix the enormous amount of issues it has BEFORE shipping it out to people instead of giving them a paperweight that doesn't funciton. Well, that is, unless you're as lucky as me. Then you just get *literally the same thing you bought in November*. This company is a joke.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> So what's the general consensus on this mouse, any good? It's recently become available in Aus, and I'm curious about it.
> 
> What is top dog of all these new slew of mice that have come out so far?


I have no problems with mine (ordered last week). The only cons for me are: surface isn't as grippy as I'd like and the wire is not as good as Zowie/Revel.

These are not complete deal breakers for me though, I can still aim well with it and the shape is comfortable. I will keep on using the S1.

I have the slam bug, but I can't reproduce it without really slamming the mouse. It's never happened to me when playing or using applications.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> Not sure what horrible issue you are referring to but I swapped 2 types of Omrons on the first edition to try to minimize of the slam bug. The clicks feel better with Japanese Omrons but didn't help the slam clicks.


I've used mine for some time now and the clicks are feeling very hollow and sort of sticky :/


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> So what's the general consensus on this mouse, any good? It's recently become available in Aus, and I'm curious about it.


It's technically worse than its main competition (Revel and DM1 Pro S) and costs ~2 times more.


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I've used mine for some time now and the clicks are feeling very hollow and sort of sticky :/


Changing switches will probably help, I had that problem with the Revel and changing switches made a huge difference there. Currently, I have Omron D2F-01 in the S1, the extra activation force feels surprisingly good. I was using the D2F-01F at one point instead, it felt great too.


----------



## Straifer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Could be because there is no feet around the sensor. Did ythe g403 cable fit in the s1 ?


The G403 cable did fit but I just had to swap the pins around in the connection. This job isn't to complicated.

P.S. Please heed Menismyforte's warning and do not buy this mouse. If you have money to burn and/or are just stupid like myself.. it has turned into a fun little project but every other mouse I have sitting around is a better option. EC2-A, FK-1, G502, G403 and the G303.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *menismyforte*
> 
> Because people like Rocket Jump Ninja are pretending that the video I posted of the 2nd Edition wasn't clear enough, the Scream One 2nd Edition I received was not a newly manufactured item. It was a refunded 1st Edition that Final Mouse was supposed to have the updated firmware on it - as if I couldn't have just done that myself. They were going to ship it out to someone and call it a "2nd Edition" because this company holds the opinion that releasing an update to its customers to *fix a broken product* constitutes the label "new edition". *The mouse has absolutely no new features*. Firmware to make a mouse function properly is not a "new feature". FinalMouse is an apathetic company whose only goal is to make a profit off of unsuspecting and ignorant buyers.
> 
> *Don't waste your money.* The 2nd Edition is literally the same thing they were selling 3 months ago. The only difference is they're installing the firmware to fix the enormous amount of issues it has BEFORE shipping it out to people instead of giving them a paperweight that doesn't funciton. Well, that is, unless you're as lucky as me. Then you just get *literally the same thing you bought in November*. This company is a joke.


The second edition s1 is either in build 1.2 or 1.2.1. If you have 1.2 you can use the new firmware updater on the site to go to 1.2.1. This updater is only for second editions and will not work on first edition mice. First edition mice required our USB shell hack. You can confirm it is a second edition mouse by opening up the mouse and seeing either 1.2 or 1.2.1 laser engraved on the MCU.

Second edition S1's are also painted a darker shade of blue with slightly modified clicker tooling, and encoder tolerance.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

As of right now it appears users on 1.2.1 firmware build are not experiencing issues. To be clear second edition s1's have slightly modified paint, clicks, scroll wheel, and come with either build 1.2 or build 1.2.1. Any build from 1.2 on can use the easy and new firmware updater on our site which safely swaps the firmware via what is called ISP mode. You can get your mouse into ISP mode yourself by holding the DPI button while plugging in the mouse. This will let you see the firmware file in an actual drive on the computer. This is also one way to differentiate the second edition from the first.


----------



## aayman_farzand

What does the firmware change? Other than the buttons ghosting. Does it fix the PC sleep issue?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

1.2.1 improves tapping via better debounce release algorithm. Fixes side button issues. Cuts off some microseconds off areas of code for performance improvements.

1.2.2 which is not released yet will address scroll wheel even further . We are planning to modify the algorithm to further avoid scroll wheel bugs. And we will also address sleep issues. 1.2.2 will be available on the site where the current update tool is. We will also make an announcement every new build version to remind people.


----------



## daniel0731ex




----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Cuts off some microseconds off areas of code for performance improvements.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*


Just go with it. It sounded okay to him when he typed it out. Just humor him.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Cuts off some microseconds off areas of code for performance improvements.


Oh wow Jude! That's Great!


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> 1.2.1 improves tapping via better debounce release algorithm. Fixes side button issues. Cuts off some microseconds off areas of code for performance improvements.
> 
> 1.2.2 which is not released yet will address scroll wheel even further . We are planning to modify the algorithm to further avoid scroll wheel bugs. And we will also address sleep issues. 1.2.2 will be available on the site where the current update tool is. We will also make an announcement every new build version to remind people.


I can't wait for the better build quality but that will probably sky rocket the cost !!


----------



## qsxcv

yea 99us latency is so much better than 100us

but seriously scroll wheel bugs? with a mechanical encoder? how is that even possible? like the design of those things means that you don't ever have to worry about debouncing... as long as you sample it frequently enough (few times every ms) there's nothing that can go wrong


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Second edition S1's are also painted a darker shade of blue with slightly modified clicker tooling, and encoder tolerance.


----------



## shaiaz

The ones that aren't resold first edition


----------



## muso

So there are real second editions and they are physically different to the first editions that have been relabled/reboxed and firmware flashed first editions... I think most people have received the later so far. How can we tell something's a true second edition and not just a rebox ?


----------



## trhead

This is a ok mouse but its way overpriced for what you get. Overall it isn't any better than Nixeus Revel or Dream Machines imo. Not bad just not worth the price.

Also please use a less stiff preferably non braided cable next. It ruins this very lightweight mouse.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> How can we tell something's a true second edition and not just a rebox ?


Don't even know since I've yet to receive mine. Shall be looking everywhere on the mouse body and packaging to guage if I received their first disaster before conducting an RMA with PCCG.

Would be foul if PCCG is selling their first edition garbage and pretending it's now the brand new second edition, illegal under current Australian Consumer Laws.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The easiest way to confirm if you have a second edition is to hold the dpi button while plugging in the mouse. Since packaging is sometimes reused from previous packaging batches.

If while holding the DPI button down and plugging in you are able to access ISP mode then you have a second edition.

If for whatever reason you do not, and you purchased a second edition, contact support and they will take care of the situation immediately.


----------



## ncck

So... will a rubber cable version be available before the end of 2017? (yes I'm aware I can do it myself, not interested in doing it or destroying the mouse skates)


----------



## Aventadoor

I've started to really like the S1. I'm getting a new unit next week. Just pray that theres no rattle, or a new problem...

Pros:
Great shape
Great performance
Great clicks
Decent scroll
Good glide

Cons:
Rattle
Possible QC problems
Scroll wheel has a issue if u scroll very fast
Sides should have been more grippy


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If while holding the DPI button down and plugging in you are able to access ISP mode then you have a second edition.
> 
> If for whatever reason you do not, and you purchased a second edition, contact support and they will take care of the situation immediately.


Thanks for letting me know, but understand this mouse was sold to an OLD git here so this holding down of the DPI button will do what with the ISP?

Will it mean I need to be connected to the internet?

_Yeah, I know the kids all know what this mouse is about but this product is also sold to everyone else, so unless FinalMouse starts banning old geezers from using their product line then they need to place it on all of their packaging and website._


----------



## muso

Bump from elricks post, I'd like to know this as well. Since we're in Australia I'm not sure if we would be sent the legit 2nd edition ones or because were so far away, still have an old batch


----------



## end0rphine

Pccasegear explicitly says second edition. And because it's the only version we received, there's no opportunity for version 1 to be swapped or mixed in from returns.


----------



## Straifer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Pccasegear explicitly says second edition. And because it's the only version we received, there's no opportunity for version 1 to be swapped or mixed in from returns.


I'm not 100% sure about this one because the box to my S1 says First Edition on the barcode label and it's not even covered by a Second Edition sticker. The seal was broken when I received it. Also it was from PCCG. Maybe it's a reused box but not going to rule it out as a option.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straifer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Pccasegear explicitly says second edition. And because it's the only version we received, there's no opportunity for version 1 to be swapped or mixed in from returns.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not 100% sure about this one because the box to my S1 says First Edition on the barcode label and it's not even covered by a Second Edition sticker. The seal was broken when I received it. Also it was from PCCG. Maybe it's a reused box but not going to rule it out as a option.
Click to expand...

*SAME HERE, cut sticker with an S1 label applied upon the box, what the hell is this????*

Either we've all been scammed by these Jackals or PCCG has bum-rushed our wallets for a false and misleading product.

No wonder the FinalMouse Rep has all but pulled stumps in regards to this latest wallet thievery courtesy of them.

WHERE the HELL does it say S2 on this product because this is going back to PCCG for a FULL Refund. Will not tolerate such blatant lies and advertising on a Product that isn't a Second Revision at all.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The easiest way to confirm if you have a second edition is to hold the dpi button while plugging in the mouse. Since packaging is sometimes reused from previous packaging batches.
> 
> If while holding the DPI button down and plugging in you are able to access ISP mode then you have a second edition.
> 
> If for whatever reason you do not, and you purchased a second edition, contact support and they will take care of the situation immediately.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> If for whatever reason you do not, and you purchased a second edition, contact support and they will take care of the situation immediately.


Don't worry it's heading back because Paypal makes sure of it, when a buyer is lied to in regards of being sold a false and misleading product.

No wonder they called it the SCREAM because you will indeed do it, when they rape your wallet for a fake product line claiming that it's something else







.

They have indeed made a mistake in trying to STEAL from the likes of me because this will get vocal and above all else nasty, especially when they lie and manipulate the gullible into believing that they are selling any Second Editions here. Trying to offload their First Edition disasters here in Convict Town.

Almost feel sorry for their inept way of trying to clear old supplies of their deranged gear through the 3rd world. They will regret even trying that method. Should of instead paid for a land-fill site and pour all of these disaster's into it then bury it permanently. Maybe in another 100 years or so some desperate might come across them to later re-sell on Flebay, but doubt it.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

@Elrick
If you have received a first edition scream one you would notice a ghosting bug where multiple buttons can not be pressed simultaneously.

To confirm its a second edition you can hold the dpi button and plug in the mouse. If you do this and a drive shows up on your computer showing a firmware.bin file then you have a second edition.

If this is not the case then you can contact our support team and they will make sure a second edition is sent your way since there should be zero first editions out in circulation right now. But I would first double check the above two points first, as the packaging is not an indication of the version of mouse. We often reuse packaging from older batches, even certain mouse parts if they are up to date as they all come from a larger supply pool.

We have checked with other Australian customers who have emailed us with this concern and they all ended up having the latest 1.2.1 build.


----------



## muso

Gotta hand it to final mouse to come on this forum, at least they respond and do actually care about customer issues. Especially Australians because we're always neglected, which i guess is fair being a smaller market.

I'd get one from PCCG but i do realize i pick the mouse up when i'm swiping so might have to wait for the future. The larger size (since my hands are big) , the low weight and the low click latency are great selling points for me.

i'd be interesting to know why the slam bug happens to some people. Tried it with the rest of my mice (even the ones with very light actuation force , which i prefer) but can't seem to replicate it. i wonder if its hardware or software. I suspect hardware.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> @Elrick
> If you have received a first edition scream one you would notice a ghosting bug where multiple buttons can not be pressed simultaneously.
> 
> To confirm its a second edition you can hold the dpi button and plug in the mouse. If you do this and a drive shows up on your computer showing a firmware.bin file then you have a second edition.
> 
> If this is not the case then you can contact our support team and they will make sure a second edition is sent your way since there should be zero first editions out in circulation right now. But I would first double check the above two points first, as the packaging is not an indication of the version of mouse. We often reuse packaging from older batches, even certain mouse parts if they are up to date as they all come from a larger supply pool.
> 
> We have checked with other Australian customers who have emailed us with this concern and they all ended up having the latest 1.2.1 build.


Does this mean the first edition buyers gets a second edition


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Don't worry it's heading back because Paypal makes sure of it, when a buyer is lied to in regards of being sold a false and misleading product.
> 
> No wonder they called it the SCREAM because you will indeed do it, when they rape your wallet for a fake product line claiming that it's something else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> They have indeed made a mistake in trying to STEAL from the likes of me because this will get vocal and above all else nasty, especially when they lie and manipulate the gullible into believing that they are selling any Second Editions here. Trying to offload their First Edition disasters here in Convict Town.
> 
> Almost feel sorry for their inept way of trying to clear old supplies of their deranged gear through the 3rd world. They will regret even trying that method. Should of instead paid for a land-fill site and pour all of these disaster's into it then bury it permanently. Maybe in another 100 years or so some desperate might come across them to later re-sell on Flebay, but doubt it.


You didn't even try to clarify anything, and instead go off on a diatribe. Can you keep off the histrionics? Did you get a first edition or not?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We have checked with other Australian customers who have emailed us with this concern and they all ended up having the latest 1.2.1 build.


Gave it over to my 7 year old niece and she says that the Scream One has the latest firmware installed already. She's good with firmware updating, she handles all my tech gear at home.

Hence it's ONLY the firmware here that is updated NOT the actual Mouse itself. They (FinalMouse) are selling off their old First Gen stock hence the packaging is right about these being all First Gen models but getting PCCG to label them as Second Edition is deceitful in some way.

Just because you've installed updated firmware doesn't make the mouse suddenly a new SECOND Edition version.

Although there is nothing wrong with the model it's the principal here that has been broken by these Razer wannabe's. Operating in the usual smoke and mirror way of keeping the actual truth from customers which would of liked to have known, what they were buying in the first place.

Nothing wrong with buying older FIRST Gen models BUT you need to let people know of this vital FACT, instead of playing this evil game of deceit.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> You didn't even try to clarify anything, and instead go off on a diatribe. Can you keep off the histrionics? Did you get a first edition or not?


*THESE are all First Version Editions with updated firmware.....*

There is no such thing as a SECOND Edition being sold at PCCG, you are all getting updated firmware versions on older First Gen Stock. Hope this answers your question in this regard.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> *THESE are all First Version Editions with updated firmware.....*


So far you have given zero evidence to suggest the mouse is in fact a version one. On the contrary, you have determined that it already has version 1.2.1 installed - stated that this is the qualifier for version two. If you want to further confirm whether or not it is a first version, you will have to see if the aforementioned switches or scroll wheel are any different, or compare colour, but so far you've spouted histrionics about absurdities instead of clarifying anything. If you have valid proof it is a version one, so be it, however you have not.


----------



## davidtran007

Here is an image of my scream one box with the 2nd edition barcode being applied over the first edition. This won't apply to international orders since its an Amazon US fulfillment label.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> . If you want to further confirm whether or not it is a first version, you will have to see if the aforementioned switches or scroll wheel are any different, or compare colour.


Sorry sunshine I don't have enormous amount of time to waste an investigation here to prove anything to the likes of you. If you believe in what they are selling at PCCG then go ahead and buy it, I have already submitted a claim to get my money back so that's it for me.

Will not be spending any money with FinalMouse again and providing so called NEW stock with opened packaging, is another bad way for ripping off customers here that PCCG should never have done in the first place.

This was the FIRST mouse ever bought from PCCG with opened packaging and that alone is suspicious because every mouse bought from elsewhere has always been sealed by the manufacturer/retailer so you get the real item which hasn't been tampered with.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidtran007*
> 
> Here is an image of my scream one box with the 2nd edition barcode being applied over the first edition. This won't apply to international orders since its an Amazon US fulfillment label.


Mine has this number

*X0017W4LZ1

FinalMouse ScreamOne - First Edition New.*


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Sorry sunshine I don't have enormous amount of time to waste an investigation here to prove anything to the likes of you. If you believe in what they are selling at PCCG then go ahead and buy it, I have already submitted a claim to get my money back so that's it for me.


Apparently enough time to write up that arduous post earlier, wasting my and everyone else's time reading through. I'm concerned about facts - facts which you have tried to undermine. I already have a finalmouse (had the very first batch ever released from Amazon), and had problems with the ghost clicking. That event had a justifiable outcry. So far, still nothing you have positively contributed to determining whether or not these are first editions. If you don't have anything constructive to add, at least limit what you post to something simple, instead of tangentially approaching an issue that could very well be on PCCG's end.


----------



## muso

so it seems to me (going off what he's saying) is that the PCCG has received firmware updated first gens. And is not the new shade of blue color. Can we get a picture from the PCCG one and an original first edition and compare or are change so slight in color that we couldn't tell. What other physical changes could we use to distinguish?

Final mouse says if you plug it in and hold down the buttons you'll get into the 'firmwater updater thing"' Does this occur on first editions *when they've updated their firmware?* Thus giving a false positive for being a second edition?

Or does it only occur on second editions period?

Also we'd need to know the distinct difference in scroll wheels aswell.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> so it seems to me (going off what he's saying) is that the PCCG has received firmware updated first gens. And is not the new shade of blue color. Can we get a picture from the PCCG one and an original first edition and compare or are change so slight in color that we couldn't tell. What other physical changes could we use to distinguish?
> 
> Final mouse says if you plug it in and hold down the buttons you'll get into the 'firmwater updater thing"' Does this occur on first editions *when they've updated their firmware?* Thus giving a false positive for being a second edition?
> 
> Or does it only occur on second editions period?
> 
> Also we'd need to know the distinct difference in scroll wheels aswell.


My manually firmware updated version 1 goes into ISP mode on DPI-button boot. This does not necessarily mean that they are merely updated version 1s though, as factory updated 1.2.1s may only be second editions. The colour would be the easiest to determine, but would have to be careful about lighting and all that.


----------



## xmr1

Despite my warnings a friend of mine bought one of these recently. I got to fiddle around with it for a couple minutes yesterday only on desktop.

Overall it feels _very_ similar to the Revel in shape/build quality/materials. Of course the Revel is like $50 cheaper because no 1 tapz.

I do like the S1 shape a litte more though, especially the top shell having contours for fingers. Personally I'd prefer a smaller version akin to the FK2. Also make the shell halves flush to get rid of that weird sharp lip at the front...

Cable is maybe the worst ever. Clicks are a bit stiff with some travel, not the easiest to spam. Only did it once since it's not my mouse but they needed a pretty hard slam to activate.


----------



## muso

Thats good news that the slam isn't happening as much now. In general use its not happening, with a swipe stop and slap back down?

As for the other thing, the finalmouse guy said the MCU has a different engraving but i dont think we can ask people to open up a $120 mouse to check that ahah.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> My manually firmware updated version 1 goes into ISP mode on DPI-button boot. This does not necessarily mean that they are merely updated version 1s though, as factory updated 1.2.1s may only be second editions. The colour would be the easiest to determine, but would have to be careful about lighting and all that.


Hmm?
I thought S1 1 edition you cant update firmware?


----------



## trhead

I bought mine from PCCG and it is 2nd edition because the mouse shows as drive with firmware.bin if you plug it in like Jude said.

Also there is no button ghosting. It is definitely 2nd edition even though it has a 1st edition sticker. So no need for drama Elrick


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Hmm?
> I thought S1 1 edition you cant update firmware?


You can, it just required following a couple more steps to use the firmware updater since I believe it didn't have easy access to ISP mode.


----------



## Aventadoor

Hmm... Maybe I dident get Second Edition after all then.
I had to:
Unplug
Reconnect + DPI button
Unplug
Reconnect + DPI button
Unplug
Reconnect + DPI button

Then it was done


----------



## ncck

Well after some more use - my main most glaring problem with this mouse is the cable. It just creates way too much friction/tug - if I fling my mouse to the left side of my pad the mouse turns 50-60 degrees with the backend fish tailing to the left.

If you can elevate the cable which you can do for a short duration by fixing the cable a certain way you can just see how much better it feels gliding - a rubber cable would still create some resistance in the direction the cable lays but it wouldn't give this 'friction' slowdown feeling. Other than that I'm pretty satisfied with just the shape and performance in general as I was the first time I used it (even though all of those mice broke) so while quality is a concern on whether or not the products will last their warranty life - it's a good product nontheless and I hope for a rubber cable version soon even if it's not been spoken about. The decision to go with braid was bad and is even causing some of the negative ratings on amazon - again. It's also why I marked off a star as well - you can call the cable lightweight whatever but the fact is if it makes contact with the mousepad it's slowing down your movements and depending on the pad it can be much much worse of a drag.


----------



## muso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> I bought mine from PCCG and it is 2nd edition because the mouse shows as drive with firmware.bin if you plug it in like Jude said.
> 
> Also there is no button ghosting. It is definitely 2nd edition even though it has a 1st edition sticker. So no need for drama Elrick


i think we went over how this happens to 1st editions when they update the firmware??? We're looking for the color and mouse wheel differences


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> i think we went over how this happens to 1st editions when they update the firmware??? We're looking for the color and mouse wheel differences


Yeah sorry, didn't read all posts


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Hmm... Maybe I dident get Second Edition after all then.
> I had to:
> Unplug
> Reconnect + DPI button
> Unplug
> Reconnect + DPI button
> Unplug
> Reconnect + DPI button
> 
> Then it was done


That is a second edition update . Updating a first edition requires installing drivers. We are not able to automatically reprogram first editions, as it can only be done via USB shell hack. That's why first edition updater launched the command line.


----------



## menismyforte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> @Elrick
> If you have received a first edition scream one you would notice a ghosting bug where multiple buttons can not be pressed simultaneously.
> 
> To confirm its a second edition you can hold the dpi button and plug in the mouse. If you do this and a drive shows up on your computer showing a firmware.bin file then you have a second edition.
> 
> If this is not the case then you can contact our support team and they will make sure a second edition is sent your way since there should be zero first editions out in circulation right now. But I would first double check the above two points first, as the packaging is not an indication of the version of mouse. We often reuse packaging from older batches, even certain mouse parts if they are up to date as they all come from a larger supply pool.
> 
> We have checked with other Australian customers who have emailed us with this concern and they all ended up having the latest 1.2.1 build.


Yeah zero in circulation except for the one I received you mean? Must have gotten that unlucky ONE 1st edition out there!

What a joke, yeah right






^Video proof that I received a 1st Edition, as the "ghosting" problem shes talking about is clearly shown.

I'm so glad I ordered that mouse with confidence that it would arrive all screwed up and I was right. I'll just keep roasting your company because no matter how many obvious BS posts you make here, its clear to see that you all don't care about your customers. I ordered 3 mice to review, all 3 were screwed? Lol. Good meme.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

@menismyforte
You did not receive a first edition. That is a second edition 1.2 build.

1.2 still had a side button issue which you can update with the second edition update tool on our website.

First editions had ghosting on all buttons.

If anyone receives a first edition we would gladly have our support team take care of it at no hassle to you. However from your video I can clearly see you have a second edition mouse. To remove that side button issue simply visit Finalmouse.com/shop.php and the update takes about 10 seconds.

If you don't wish to update yourself I'm sure you can contact support and we can help arrange something as well.


----------



## Aventadoor

@FinalmouseJude

Are you aware of units that have rattle?
Whats causing it?

I'm getting a new unit this week, hope its rattle free...


----------



## menismyforte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> @menismyforte
> You did not receive a first edition. That is a second edition 1.2 build.
> 
> 1.2 still had a side button issue which you can update with the second edition update tool on our website.
> 
> First editions had ghosting on all buttons.
> 
> If anyone receives a first edition we would gladly have our support team take care of it at no hassle to you. However from your video I can clearly see you have a second edition mouse. To remove that side button issue simply visit Finalmouse.com/shop.php and the update takes about 10 seconds.
> 
> If you don't wish to update yourself I'm sure you can contact support and we can help arrange something as well.


Just because it had an old build doesn't make it a 2nd Edition, in November when i got my first bricked mouse they sent me a "lab updated unit" that had the EXACT same issues in the video I posted 3 days ago, and that mouse was a 1st Edition. The problems with that mouse were 100% identical to the one I reviewed 3 days ago. That was 3 months ago when I got that "lab unit". You can't tell me with any certainty that my mouse was a 2nd Edition, because it came without the update and performed identically to the "fixed" one they sent me that also didn't work 3 months ago.

People should just take your word for it though? Even though all evidence points to the opposite.

Taking FinalMouse's word for something isn't a wise decision.

For example I could reference about 12 posts on your company's twitter of promised release dates and firmware fixes that didn't even come close to coming true.

The company you work for has a long and proven history of being dishonest to their customers.

But yeah, I'll just take your word that the mouse I received that had a 1st Edition label and performed EXACTLY like the 1st Edition I had 3 months ago that was supposed to be "fixed in the lab" is a "new" mouse.

Just kidding why on EARTH would anyone believe that though for sure.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Your mouse should not have had a first edition label if you purchased via Amazon.

The replacement lab units were complimentary units that still had some issues, they were not even 1.2 yet (tapping and debounce differences). One of those issues were the side buttons. We sent these out free of charge while customers waited for the manual USB hack firmware update. Once the firmware update was released you should have been able to update both mice manually to 1.2.1.

This of course was a struggle with the old firmware which is why the second edition has a different code build altogether to allow fast ISP mode updates from the beginning.

It's hard to say but it also appears in your video that the mouse is our new darker shade of blue.

Obviously all the time you have spent on getting a working s1 is frustrating and we understand and apologize for that , but I guarantee the unit in the video you just posted is in fact a second edition. And if you update it you will see your side button issue dissapear.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *menismyforte*
> 
> I'm so glad I ordered that mouse with confidence that it would arrive all screwed up and I was right. I'll just keep roasting your company because no matter how many obvious BS posts you make here, its clear to see that you all don't care about your customers. I ordered 3 mice to review, all 3 were screwed? Lol. Good meme.


----------



## Dreyka

I'm genuinely impressed to the extent that Finalmouse has failed. They were one of the first to announce a 3360 sensor yet there were numerous other cheaper 3360 alternatives before they even got the mouse to market. The build quality is poor. The mouse is horrendously overpriced. It lacks the functionality of even Zowie mice. It has an LED NOBODY WANTS and a braided cable NOBODY WANTS. The 1st edition couldn't even be firmware updated except in the hackiest way possible. The 2nd edition has the same failures as the 1st edition. The mechanical scroll wheel doesn't even function properly. The buttons don't even function properly. The firmware updates come months later than promised. "First editions" are being reboxed as "Second editions".

I mean just *wow*. Failmouse aka $80 Betamouse make Zowie look like Logitech in competence.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> @FinalmouseJude
> 
> Are you aware of units that have rattle?
> Whats causing it?
> 
> I'm getting a new unit this week, hope its rattle free...


I have A minor one but it's not the scroll. I think it's something near the stress reliever. I'm just happy af that I can't physically feel the rattle


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I mean just *wow*. Failmouse aka $80 Betamouse make Zowie look like Logitech in competence.


Have to agree although my daughter decided she would like to use the Scream One on her PC setup. The only thing going for it is the light weight of the mouse and she doesn't mind the hideous white glow of the led.

Hence this looks like staying in the house until she gets bored with it........


----------



## -IIToRII-

This thread is DA best !
I'am compliantly confident that i can *literally* sell human waste label as a "pro" product after reading through this.

8 out of 10 received a faulty mice in some way or another, but u guys still buy it!!
It's incredible! To the point that i lack words for it.. Normally u should think that this would hurt a company and that costumers turn their back to them, but noooop!
*grabs popcorn and waits for new awsm comments *


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-IIToRII-*
> 
> 8 out of 10 received a faulty mice in some way or another, but u guys still buy it!!


YES we buy it, then find out it's OLD rubbish with updated firmware, then it disappears into some ankle biters hand never to be seen again.

Suspect it'll turn up broken with bits hanging off it, which shall then be chucked into some Land-fill here in Convict Town. Welcome to my World, never ending slipstream of broken and worn out devices all of which were never used by me.


----------



## -IIToRII-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> YES we buy it, then find out it's OLD rubbish with updated firmware, then it disappears into some ankle biters hand never to be seen again.
> 
> Suspect it'll turn up broken with bits hanging off it, which shall then be chucked into some Land-fill here in Convict Town. Welcome to my World, never ending slipstream of broken and worn out devices all of which were never used by me.


He he he he he


----------



## Aventadoor

Too many wealthy people.
When you can spend $90 on a mice and just lay it away, instead of returning it and get the money back, something is wrong.
You could have used those money to buy beer, support poor people and so on.
Evil people you are.


----------



## Nivity

Our Swedish retailer have it but it's so expensive so feels not that great to try it








It's more expensive then any other wired mouse on the market at almost 100$.

Also feels like many problems are still there with the second edition.


----------



## gunit2004

Day 3 with the Scream One and this thing literally feels like it's falling apart all on it's own?

Left click has begun to have a little bit of play on it (as in I am able to feel the button shell moving up and down before the button even activates)... like it's loosening.

Yesterday while playing a game, I pressed the back side button and heard a cracking noise (I was sure something in the mouse broke or something). The button now feels like it has been pushed further into the mouse and feels off compared to the forward side button.

Scrolling the mouse wheel up suddenly is making this crackling sound that it was not making before.

***.

I will try an exchange with Amazon but this is ridiculous for a $80 mouse.


----------



## lowmhz

https://imgur.com/a/LmtjC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRu64-WDr2g&t=0s

My "Second Edition" from PCCG. Absolutely unacceptable, completely misleading, the only reason I even considered getting a 2nd edition was to avoid the so called problems which were suppose to have been fixed. No revision at all. Selling First Edition mice re branded as a second edition with a barcode being placed over the original. Ordered 2 mice from PCCG, both had issues, ones scroll wheel was incredibly loose but this one only had 2 scratches, the other mouse had 4 scrapes/gouges on it, buttons aren't fixed at all, scroll wheel is barely usable, QC is appalling for this company. First & last time I ever get a Betamouse, confirmed by a support rep from PCCG when I called them up aswell as you can imagine after being robbed of my $261. Please expose this company for what they are. Please save yourself the heartache and avoid this company at all costs. Just look online, so many people have issues, it's not just me.


----------



## muso

Oh wow so we were right. The ones from pccg arn't the new editions and are just updated first editions... why would the boxes be open if they were fresh 2nd editions? even if they were boxed in the old boxes (nothing really wrong with that I understand if not reprinting a whole bunch) they would come from the factory sealed? .... If this isn't the case and they are second editions then we're going to need a third edition because the seconds clearly have huge QC issues


----------



## indiehjaerta

I have this mouse and the only problem I have at the moment is that my computer won't go into sleep mode either shutting off the monitor or the whole computer.
Unplugging the mouse works but it's really weird having to do that in 2017.

Other than that I haven't experienced any other problem yet but I do only have 1 night of FPS gaming so far.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

So far we have been checking instances where a box is labeled first edition and it appears these mice are still second editions. If a unit has a hardware defect then it will be covered by support regardless.

There should however be no play or looseness in the buttons though, if you have any button issues I would definitely contact support as this should not be a problem in a proper unit.


----------



## popups

I thought the second edition was supposed to be all black without a signature.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

@lowmhz

I watched your video. Small paint chips can happen on a second edition as well, we use a special coating for the blue surface and the process is a second step that will not be 100% at all times. Especially in areas like the side of the clicker. This is completely normal if the missing paint is in side crevices. If they are excessive please contact support they will take care of the issue.

The slamming down also will happen with enough force. Even in your video you had to slam a second and third time even harder to get an actuated click. We did not redesign the fundamental button design so at some point a forceful slam will actuate the click. This is intended and happens in all finalmice since we use independent housing for clickers. It will not affect gameplay.

The scroll wheel issue where you scroll very fast is also not a firmware issue it is a trait of the respective encoder. Scrolling extremely fast will cause this, however your scroll wheel does seem particularly loose. This could be a defective scroll wheel, it is hard for me to see. If you contact support they can help you further. We are working on a firmware remedy that can help the scroll wheel, however keep in mind extremely fast scrolling on this encoder has always been a problem.


----------



## indiehjaerta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> So far we have been checking instances where a box is labeled first edition and it appears these mice are still second editions. If a unit has a hardware defect then it will be covered by support regardless.
> 
> There should however be no play or looseness in the buttons though, if you have any button issues I would definitely contact support as this should not be a problem in a proper unit.


Can you check why your mouse doesn't make my mouse go into hibernation I've seen a few reports of this.

Also is the rattling supposed to be on the mouse or should I get a replacement?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The next firmware update will address the sleep issue. There should be no lens or mousewheel rattle. However if the rattle is minor it could simply be the way the wiring is positioned inside the mouse, or part of the wire stress relief that's moving slightly.

There should be no heavy rattle from lens or mousewheel. But minor rattle from wiring may sometimes occur. If it's audible and distracting I would contact support. But keep in mind subtle rattle can just be the internal wiring or stress relief.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If anyone still has a classic ergo of any edition you will notice the scroll wheel will have a similar effect on extremely fast scrolling. This has always been a con of this particular encoder however we found no one in real game situations scrolls this fast and many were fans of this encoder. It seems with the s1 people are more outspoken on it.

If we feel people no longer like this encoder we will take steps to change it in further models, but we have always found this one to be the best feeling for bunnyhopping and in game situations.


----------



## Klopfer

for me the best MWheel has the Roccat KP/M


----------



## Maximillion

I love how this thread has devolved into utter damage control. In a nutshell, every conceivable issue with this mouse is either "completely normal" (this response is so bold I'm actually impressed) or will be fixed in the _next_ finely-tuned firmware. Wasn't the whole point of the initial multi-month delay to buff these things out? It took regular consumers to report these flaws (that somehow slipped past the strenuous testing at Finalmouse Labs®) for this company to go "oh dear, we'll correct that immediately."? Am I missing something?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I think its important for individuals to know what is and is not an issue.

We have used this encoder for 2 years. It has certain traits. We do not consider it an issue, in fact we choose this encoder over many others due to its feel. That being said we are trying to see if we can do some kind of FW trick to improve its "cons"

Slamming the mouse to get it to click we also do not consider an issue. At the moment it takes alot of force to slam click it with the second edition. If you go and slam the ergo or tourney pro it is actually more sensitive.

Things we are aware of that we believe are problems are:

1. Mouse not letting certain computers go to sleep (solved in 1.2.2)

2. Any hardware defect such as broken wheel, bad teflon placement, click etc.. is covered normally by our warranty. And our support will take care of this with zero hassle.

But as for FW 1.2.1 we do not see any bugs or any issues being reported. And the current hardware iteration has great click travel and feel all around as we intended. Now personally, I think our MSRP is quite high at the moment, as many in the community have brought up. I can say that this is going to change very soon with more skus being released and production volume increasing.


----------



## Aventadoor

On my unit, the LEDs stay on when I turn off the PC.
Fix for this?


----------



## Alya

You know what's funny? I had that exact same scroll wheel issue as shown in that video where it would randomly scroll up and I thought it was because the rubberized coating on the wheel was so bad for my hand that I was accidentally scrolling up when trying to scroll down, or it wasn't latching into place properly...guess it was the scroll wheel after all, what a joke.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We have used this encoder for 2 years. It has certain traits. We do not consider it an issue, in fact we choose this encoder over many others due to its feel.


You chose the mousewheel for its feel despite the scrolling issue you clearly knew about and actually deny as an issue in fact? Really? Why not just get a regular Alps encoder with superior _"feel"_ and problem-free scrolling?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Alps encoders are not as smooth or light. This is something we actually discussed a long time ago and the consensus was to stick with the current wheel by players. Since in game or casual browsing you never often hit the scroll speeds that make the current encoder malfunction .

It is much easier to bunny hop with the current encoder , this is something we have tested a lot.


----------



## SmashTV

Can't believe they're still using the "just slap a sticker over it" tactic.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I think its important for individuals to know what is and is not an issue.


You don't get to decide that. Period. Full stop. Ever.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I think its important for individuals to know what is and is not an issue.
> 
> We have used this encoder for 2 years. It has certain traits. We do not consider it an issue, in fact we choose this encoder over many others due to its feel. That being said we are trying to see if we can do some kind of FW trick to improve its "cons"
> 
> Slamming the mouse to get it to click we also do not consider an issue. At the moment it takes alot of force to slam click it with the second edition. If you go and slam the ergo or tourney pro it is actually more sensitive.
> 
> Things we are aware of that we believe are problems are:
> 
> 1. Mouse not letting certain computers go to sleep (solved in 1.2.2)
> 
> 2. Any hardware defect such as broken wheel, bad teflon placement, click etc.. is covered normally by our warranty. And our support will take care of this with zero hassle.
> 
> But as for FW 1.2.1 we do not see any bugs or any issues being reported. And the current hardware iteration has great click travel and feel all around as we intended. Now personally, I think our MSRP is quite high at the moment, as many in the community have brought up. I can say that this is going to change very soon with more skus being released and production volume increasing.


When you say contact support, does that mean contact Finalmouse directly or contact where you bought it from? (which for me was Amazon.com). I just want to get a good copy with even clicks and no play on the buttons.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> casual browsing you never often hit the scroll speeds that make the current encoder malfunction.


Because screw people who are trying to scroll down really large pages or read forums, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I think its important for individuals to know what is and is not an issue.


Why not just put an A5050 or A7550 in your mouse then? "When I move the mouse too fast it makes me look up or down!" "That's not an issue actually, since we never have that happen during our gaming sessions."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Can't believe they're still using the "just slap a sticker over it" tactic.


Not a surprise considering this is the same company that did that with the FM Classic Ergo, they literally slapped a sticker over it rather than replacing the text that was etched to the plastic on the bottom.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I will have to disagree here. We can choose to design the mouse however we wish. We chose the scroll wheel encoder that many of our past customers, pros, and players enjoyed. It does not mean everyone likes this mousewheel encoder, and those people do not have to buy the mouse. Some players may enjoy sensors with lots of prediction, and there may be a place and time for that kind of design intent.

The irony of the situation is that there are other mice known to this community that use the same encoder. And other mice that will click if you slam them down with enough force due to the more lightweight clicker design.

Therefor in the face of bias, we are not going to bend our design intent, we will continue to make sure the mouse is ideal for those it was intended for. And many would be upset if we got rid of the encoder, and individual clicker housing that makes the Finalmouse feel how it does. If you want to scroll down large pages really fast then this is not the mouse for you. But if bunnyhopping with mousewheel is important to you, then maybe it is.


----------



## ncck

Well I'm glad you're being open with everything but do you have any info on the cable.. will you remain with braid or will we have rubber option in the future? That's my most major concern.

I do think changing to a different scroll wheel would be beneficial. It's just a nuisance rather than a major benefit. Can't say any wheel besides zowie has sucked for jumping


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Well I'm glad you're being open with everything but do you have any info on the cable.. will you remain with braid or will we have rubber option in the future? That's my most major concern


We already have a rubber cable option in the pipeline. It is not too far away.


----------



## Mr moff

Just received mine today and I have to say I really like it.
The slam click and mouse wheel problems don't happen to me in game so I'm not bothered about that.
My only gripe other than the stiff cable is the back mouse feet are really sharp and are heavily scratching my mouse pad, but I'm just going to lightly sand them tomorrow.
Overall this is one of my favourites so far.


----------



## sirneb

Finalmouse can make whatever design decision they choose. We as consumers just need to not buy its products if we don't agree. It's the same deal with the pricing, don't buy if you think it's too expensive.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We already have a rubber cable option in the pipeline. It is not too far away.


OK thanks. I'm very happy to hear that. Please let us know whenever that's available


----------



## popups

I have been waiting a long time for the FM to drop to 45$.

I thought the plan was to only sell their designs, discontinue the Razer "clone" shape and the Tournament Pro, change the Scream1 to all black, drop the price and release that 2nd edition Scream1 in a few weeks with new firmware.

So far there is only a refurbished/updated release version being sold as the 2nd edition? I thought the release version was supposed to allow for easy firmware flashing without hacking or replacement mice. Why would I buy a 80$ mouse that is supposed to be replaced already with a 2nd edition and still has firmware issues? Shouldn't they drop the price massively to get rid of the first batch and start producing the new black version?

Maybe people should wait until there is a all black version, with no logo LED, no braided cable, replacement feet, lower price, proper firmware and proper no hack firmware updates. That might take a year or two considering they appear to be making an ergo shape right now.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

"I thought the release version was supposed to allow for easy firmware flashing without hacking or replacement mice"

That is exactly what has happened. There seems to be alot of confusion still. Everything out right now should be a 1.2 updated firmware that is easily updated with the new update tool on the website.

There are no more "firmware issues", everyone should be able to update their second editions on their own in about 10 seconds.

New variations with different colors, cables, etc.. will also be some sort of 1.2+ firmware build. Maybe 1.2.2 , but regardless all of these can be updated easily now since they are all second edition programmed mcus


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> New variations with different colors, cables, etc.. will also be some sort of 1.2+ firmware build. Maybe 1.2.2 , but regardless all of these can be updated easily now since they are all second edition programmed mcus


The problem with your own viewpoint here is that anyone who buys your product will encounter the so-called quality issues themselves so may indeed never get the chance to keep the device or indeed apply any future upgrades.

Never used or purchased any of your devices before but PCCG advertised it and sure enough I was curious and got hooked with all the propaganda that falsely promoted this as a "Gaming Mouse" used by Pros.

In the end, those who want to try out a "FinalMouse" will soon decide if it will indeed be their Final product ever bought from this Company







.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> In the end, those who want to try out a "FinalMouse" will soon decide if it will indeed be their Final product ever bought from this Company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I can tell you my ScreamOne is the first and last product I will buy from them.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We already have a rubber cable option in the pipeline. It is not too far away.


Ok, so I just spent $102,23 (which is what it costs in Scandinavia) on a S1, and now your gonne release different colorways, new cable etc, within what?
2-3 months? I hope not. Then I really do have to return my S1 and get money back.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The irony of the situation is that there are other mice known to this community that use the same encoder. And other mice that will click if you slam them down with enough force due to the more lightweight clicker design.


G303/G403/G502/G900/G Pro have by far the lighter clicks and they don't actuate when you pick them up and put them down again. One of my G Pro's had buttons so light that I couldn't even rest my fingers on the buttons, which was actually quite nice.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> One of my G Pro's had buttons so light that I couldn't even rest my fingers on the buttons, which was actually quite nice.


It's nice if you enjoy maintaining your index and middle finger in the air when not clicking.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> It's nice if you enjoy maintaining your index and middle finger in the air when not clicking.


Why the air? lol All it takes is a minimal amount of restraint to keep my fingers from resting completely on the buttons.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> Why the air? lol All it takes is a minimal amount of restraint to keep my fingers from resting completely on the buttons.


My first G Pro had that problem; Super sensitive right click, couldn't rest my finger on it without actuating. At first i thought the same, that i just had to be careful. But nope. Playing FFA DM in CS:GO was bound to cause misclicks even with all the care in the world.

If you have to use constant muscle restraint in order just not to click, if you have to constantly think about being careful of not to misclick instead of concentrating on the game, there is a problem with the mouse.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> My first G Pro had that problem; Super sensitive right click, couldn't rest my finger on it without actuating. At first i thought the same, that i just had to be careful. But nope. Playing FFA DM in CS:GO was bound to cause misclicks even with all the care in the world.
> 
> If you have to use constant muscle restraint in order just not to click, if you have to constantly think about being careful of not to misclick instead of concentrating on the game, there is a problem with the mouse.


It's not a problem for me.


----------



## Dreyka

*Rules of buying Finalmouse Betamouse:*


QC is poor so you'll probably have to return it.
The firmware is broken so you'll either have to return it or wait months for a firmware update.
There will be a new version within 2 months that will have "innovations" such as the rubber cable you originally wanted. Time to pay another $80.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It is not too far away.


You guys should trademark that.


----------



## mitavreb

Damage control! Damage control!









This thread was once a PR stunt for a hyped product, but surprisingly turned into a thread full of valuable information about a product that is to be avoided. Waaaaaaay thumbs up!!!


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Damage control! Damage control!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread was once a PR stunt for a hyped product, but surprisingly turned into a thread full of valuable information about a product that is to be avoided. Waaaaaaay thumbs up!!!


Thumbs up indeed. This thread saved me from wasting money on a mouse that I was originally very hyped for.


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> "I thought the release version was supposed to allow for easy firmware flashing without hacking or replacement mice"
> 
> That is exactly what has happened. There seems to be alot of confusion still. Everything out right now should be a 1.2 updated firmware that is easily updated with the new update tool on the website.
> 
> There are no more "firmware issues", everyone should be able to update their second editions on their own in about 10 seconds.
> 
> New variations with different colors, cables, etc.. will also be some sort of 1.2+ firmware build. Maybe 1.2.2 , but regardless all of these can be updated easily now since they are all second edition programmed mcus


Just got my second edition(it came in an already opened box with a "S1 first edition new" sticker on it) that is not an issue for me but the mouse not working really is an issue.

Downloaded the firmware tool from your website and followed each step but the mouse isn't working, at all. It says "Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:." I wait a few seconds and plug it in again, absolutely nothing happens. So I'm sitting here with a broken mouse. Any help would be appreciated =)

EDIT: I've tried several usb ports and re-downloading the upgrade tool, no success as of yet.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

FM strikes again....dun dun dun.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> Just got my second edition(it came in an already opened box with a "S1 first edition new" sticker on it) that is not an issue for me but the mouse not working really is an issue.
> 
> Downloaded the firmware tool from your website and followed each step but the mouse isn't working, at all. It says "Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:." I wait a few seconds and plug it in again, absolutely nothing happens. So I'm sitting here with a broken mouse. Any help would be appreciated =)
> 
> EDIT: I've tried several usb ports and re-downloading the upgrade tool, no success as of yet.


What do you mean by the mouse is not working? The lights do not turn on and there is no tracking? Was it working before you updated ?

Sounds like you just missed the second step in the update. Plug in the mouse with dpi button pressed, then run the update tool, then it should tell you to unplug and replug back in while holding the dpi button once more. It should then be updated and you can replug without holding dpi.


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> What do you mean by the mouse is not working? The lights do not turn on and there is no tracking? Was it working before you updated ?
> 
> Sounds like you just missed the second step in the update. Plug in the mouse with dpi button pressed, then run the update tool, then it should tell you to unplug and replug back in while holding the dpi button once more. It should then be updated and you can replug without holding dpi.


Yeah I tried that, the logo lights up but there is no mouse tracking. Tried on multiple usb ports as well. Is there any way to just reset the firmware since it worked before I tried upgrading it?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> Yeah I tried that, the logo lights up but there is no mouse tracking. Tried on multiple usb ports as well. Is there any way to just reset the firmware since it worked before I tried upgrading it?


When you plug in while holding the dpi button down right now do the lights stay on or off? Also do you see any file in a drive that opens on your computer


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> When you plug in while holding the dpi button down right now do the lights stay on or off? Also do you see any file in a drive that opens on your computer


It stays off the entire time during the installation and after it says "Updating firmware (D:\firmware.bin)
Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:."

I plug it back in then it lights up but there's no tracking

Yeah when i hold the dpi button and plug it in, it a drive (D opens up with a firmware.bin" in it.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> It stays off the entire time during the installation and after it says "Updating firmware (D:\firmware.bin)
> Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:."
> 
> I plug it back in then it lights up but there's no tracking
> 
> Yeah when i hold the dpi button and plug it in, it a drive (D opens up with a firmware.bin" in it.


The updater should have also prompted you to unplug and replug with the dpi button held. Did you do that? As part of the process you have to do this once more in addition to initially plugging it in. The prompt has a red X I believe, after this prompt you want to unplug and replug while still holding dpi.

Also try plugging the mouse in without other mice already in other USB ports. It could simply be your windows not recognizing a new device for some reason.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> It stays off the entire time during the installation and after it says "Updating firmware (D:\firmware.bin)
> Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:."
> 
> I plug it back in then it lights up but there's no tracking
> 
> Yeah when i hold the dpi button and plug it in, it a drive (D opens up with a firmware.bin" in it.


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The updater should have also prompted you to unplug and replug with the dpi button held. Did you do that? As part of the process you have to do this once more in addition to initially plugging it in. The prompt has a red X I believe, after this prompt you want to unplug and replug while still holding dpi.
> 
> Also try plugging the mouse in without other mice already in other USB ports. It could simply be your windows not recognizing a new device for some reason.


Yeah that's exactly what i've been doing, here's the entire log:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Caching firmware file...
Checksum valid
Listening for Final Mouse devices in ISP mode...
Plug in your mouse while holding the button below the scroll wheel
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
UsbStateChangedEvent! D: () 0 Bytes free of 0 Bytes
UsbStateChangedEvent! D: CRP DISABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40,00 KB
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
Updating firmware (D:\firmware.bin)
Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive D:.



And I've unplugged every other usb device there is except for my keyboard which i need to start the install with^^


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*


At least I got to enjoy it for 5 min before trying to upgrading the firmware.. regret it.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

It's very strange that your drive shows a firmware.bin yet you get no tracking.

Are you able to test on another computer. Have you tried restarting your computer?


----------



## m0uz

Why does the firmware upgrade have to be difficult and sketchy? Why can't it just be a simple button click, wait, unplug, replug process? What's with all the button combo firmware upgrade shizz?

Edit: Updated after response below
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> What do you mean by the mouse is not working? The lights do not turn on and there is no tracking? Was it working before you updated ?
> 
> Sounds like you just missed the second step in the update. Plug in the mouse *with dpi button pressed*, then run the update tool, then it should *tell you to unplug and replug back in while holding the dpi button* once more. It should then be updated and you can replug without holding dpi.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Why does the firmware upgrade have to be difficult and sketchy? Why can't it just be a simple button click, wait, unplug, replug process? What's with all the button combo firmware upgrade shizz?


That is what the process is. It's unplugging once and plugging back in.


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Why does the firmware upgrade have to be difficult and sketchy? Why can't it just be a simple button click, wait, unplug, replug process? What's with all the button combo firmware upgrade shizz?


Why there even has to be a firmware update if you already have the second edition?


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> It's very strange that your drive shows a firmware.bin yet you get no tracking.
> 
> Are you able to test on another computer. Have you tried restarting your computer?


I removed the FinalMouse driver from the control panel yet again and re-did every step exactly the same way as I've done like 20-30 times and got it to work all of a sudden. No idea why but it worked and now I got tracking even after updating! Sweet. Thanks for your help!


----------



## FinalmouseJude

@stormielele

Based on the logs and the fact that you have a drive with firmware.bin the mouse should be updated.

I would try restarting your comp or trying on a different computer. There isn't really any chance the update bricked the mouse since it's happening via ISP mode not a flash update. I think your computer just isn't recognizing the mouse properly. A restart should in theory fix this. Do the buttons work or is it just the sensor?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> I removed the FinalMouse driver from the control panel yet again and re-did every step exactly the same way as I've done like 20-30 times and got it to work all of a sudden. No idea why but it worked and now I got tracking even after updating! Sweet. Thanks for your help!


Every now and then Windows can have issues reading new device drivers. That's what I figured, glad it's working!


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> That is what the process is. It's unplugging once and plugging back in.


how do you tell what firmware you have? and what are the differences between the firmware shipped with the 2nd edition and the one on the site?


----------



## Argowashi

The firmware updating process is soooooooooooo sketchy. Especially the first firmware update process where it literally was a hack. Even Mionix can properly update firmwares.


----------



## stormielele

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Every now and then Windows can have issues reading new device drivers. That's what I figured, glad it's working!


Since you get a lot of stick I'd like to give you some praise.. first of all, I love the scroll. Bunnyhopping has never been this easy! Once I got the mouse to work again I went straight into csgo and Paladins. My aim and overall precision has been way better with the S1 than with the G502, G303, DA 2013, Rival 300, and Rival 700


----------



## atarii

I have bought the mouse from esportstore.com (which isn't even listed on finalmouse site, but it's basically maxgaming with worldwide shipping) and, like many others, my box was opened and there was a first edition sticker on it. At least now i know it's already updated because i tried every combination of buttons i can think of and they all work flawlessly. The slam thing is present, but i can't replicate it while gaming. My sens is about 41 cm / 360 in every game, but i understand why people with lower sens could have a problem with this. The scroll goes up when scrolling really fast. If i didn't know about this i am pretty sure i wouldn't even notice, since i only use the scroll to bhop in cs (again, I can't replicate the problem in game, but it could be a problem while scrolling documents with a lot of pages).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stormielele*
> 
> I love the scroll. Bunnyhopping has never been this easy!


*

The mouse is "always on". I don't understand how can this be a thing, did you even bother to test it once? LOL, when you shut down your pc the lights are always on; when you start windows the lights won't even flash, it's the first time in 15 years of pc gaming that something like that happens to me. Let's hope this will be really fixed with the next firmware update.

The rest is perfect.
It's basically two years i am stuck with an ec2-a, because logitech is unable to do a proper shape. I thought the g403 and gpro were the answer but someone should explain the almighty logitech engineers that a damn mouse base shouldn't be so small, otherwise, since not every human being apply the same pression in the same spot on a mouse with a safe shape, problems will occur. I couldn't spray with the gpro, because i apply too much force in the wrong spot of the mouse and it tilts forward, resulting in a mouse which doesn't track (same with the g303 but it tilts on the sides). The g403 is too bulky and too short for my taste, a great mouse but the shape is not comparable with the zowie ec series. And i won't even mention the cable or the mousefeet, which are so bad.
The finalmouse is the first mouse after the Xai that truly feels an extension of my hand, the sensor performance is amazing and the clicks are so light and fast









TBH, considering the price and the issues i don't know if i would recommend it. But for me it's a step up and i will use it. At least until Zowie will release an ec2 with the 3360 and lighter clicks.


----------



## TriviumKM

Despite all the bs, if FinalMouse actually releases a signature free (or at least changes the size and location of it), rubber cable, reduced price version of this mouse i'd pick it up due to the shape and sensor / sensor position.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> reduced price


good luck with that


----------



## BlazeGaming

@FinalmouseJude Is there any chance that the new versions with rubber cable also have rubber on the sides? Like the top is rubberized right now, it would help people with sweaty hands if the sides were rubberized as well. Thank you!


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> good luck with that










I'm not holding my breath


----------



## Lujer

People are really toxic nowadays.

When you have a hobby, it's gonna cost you money, if you can't afford your hobby, you might wanna think about finding another.
However if you have issues with your product, it's of course okay to state them and how the company support team handled the issue.

I wonder what garrett would say if i called them and told them i think there 600 hp capable turbo that i bought should only cost 70$, because that's what i feel it's worth for me.
You see my point?

Anyways, so far my S1 SE have been solid, no missclicks ingame, no tracking problems etc, however the stress relief for my cable is pretty loose and have been since i bought it, gonna see what finalmouse have to say about that one.

By the way, i don't have problems with a monitor that won't go to sleep or lights on the mouse that won't turn off when i shut down my pc, so maybe some have set power to usb ports even when the pc is off in the bios, maybe that could be your problem, but i'm no expert by any means.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lujer*
> 
> I wonder what garrett would say if i called them and told them i think there 600 hp capable turbo that i bought should only cost 70$, because that's what i feel it's worth for me.
> You see my point?


It's actually a better comparison to say that the S1 is like buying Great Value which is off-brand and paying more for it (in this case $80) than buying the $40 on-brand. The Great Value brand can taste better than the on-brand sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't, and this is no exception.


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lujer*
> 
> People are really toxic nowadays.


So by pointing out flaws and issues in a product that makes you toxic? And then wondering what shaving off microseconds of code means is also toxic? lol wat
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lujer*
> 
> When you have a hobby, it's gonna cost you money, if you can't afford your hobby, you might wanna think about finding another.


Except, you know, I can get a Nixeus/Dream Machines for $30 with which is similar. Or a Zowie for $60 which although barebones, is tried and true with no inherent flaws like Finalmouse. Or a Logitech for $60 with all the stuff I could want. It's not about not affording the mouse. I can buy a Finalmouse if I wanted to but hell they can't even produce enough of them to meet demand from CSGO kids who love Scream. But $80 for a barebones mouse with no advantage over other similar mice and tons of weird issues that have pretty much never been relevant in a mouse before and doesn't even happen to cheap $10 mice straight from China? Yeah, you're a fool for buying that lol. Also the money argument always makes you look stupid.


----------



## t3ram

Is most expensive equivalent to most flaws? XD


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Is most expensive equivalent to most flaws? XD


Ironically when it comes to hardware that's the case


----------



## NovaGOD

I'm a little confused with the second edition, any amazon EU is confirmed to have the "true second edition" which includes the firmware update, slightly different color, second edition label on box, right? Other retailers like esportstore for example have first editions opened and flashed with new firmware?


----------



## Aventadoor

Just got my 2nd S1. Still has rattle, but not as much.
Not sure if I wanna keep it. I guess I should give up S1 for now and wait for the new colorways etc...


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> It's actually a better comparison to say that the S1 is like buying Great Value which is off-brand and paying more for it (in this case $80) than buying the $40 on-brand. The Great Value brand can taste better than the on-brand sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't, and this is no exception.


I wonder what ferrari would say if i called them and told them i think there california t that i bought should only cost 70$, because that's what i feel it's worth for me.
You see my poor comparison?


----------



## Lujer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> It's actually a better comparison to say that the S1 is like buying Great Value which is off-brand and paying more for it (in this case $80) than buying the $40 on-brand. The Great Value brand can taste better than the on-brand sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't, and this is no exception.


I think we are trying to go down the same road here, and i agree that sometimes the cheaper product can be the better option, either in personal preference or because the cheaper product might actually is in fact the better product.

But as i stated earlier, you can complain to all the people in the world, if you don't go to the company of the product and tell them there product have these flaws, how are they supposed to know and more important, fix them.
I am aware that finalmouse is active in this thread, so they see the complains and issues people are having with their problem.

A hobby is always gonna cost you money, whether it's cars, pc or even golf, and we all have personal preference about what we like in our hobby and that determine where we spend our money.
And no matter hobby there's often so many choises between products it can get confusing sometimes.
If money is an issue for people, don't complain about it, however if the product is the problem, go to the company and let them know, sooner rather than later they will realise there is a problem if enough people complain about the same problem(s).

I have invested in a few company's who had a very rough start, but came out on top of the problems because they did listen to their customers, but i've also tried the other way around.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> So by pointing out flaws and issues in a product that makes you toxic? And then wondering what shaving off microseconds of code means is also toxic? lol wat
> Except, you know, I can get a Nixeus/Dream Machines for $30 with which is similar. Or a Zowie for $60 which although barebones, is tried and true with no inherent flaws like Finalmouse. Or a Logitech for $60 with all the stuff I could want. It's not about not affording the mouse. I can buy a Finalmouse if I wanted to but hell they can't even produce enough of them to meet demand from CSGO kids who love Scream. But $80 for a barebones mouse with no advantage over other similar mice and tons of weird issues that have pretty much never been relevant in a mouse before and doesn't even happen to cheap $10 mice straight from China? Yeah, you're a fool for buying that lol. Also the money argument always makes you look stupid.


You calling me a fool is an opinion and not a fact, and neither does it make you a better person than me, however it says more about you than it does about me.
And neither did i call out your name or quote you anywhere to point out you were the only problem here, so why do you feel so offended?

I didn't get the mouse because it has a scream signature or because i'm a csgo kid as you like to call it, i don't even play that much csgo, i got it for the performance and shape.
As far as i'm aware, finalmouse isn't the only company in history to have problems, i could name a few that also had one leg in the grave in the beginning, or some that had a great start but then turning direction for the worse.

I am not denying this mouse has problems for some people, but if you don't like don't buy it, people keep praising logitech and zowie way above the skies, so there are other options which might also be a better match for you.
If you like the Dream Machines for $30 which is similar more than the finalmouse, why do even bother complaining if you have found a mouse you are satisfied with for alot less money?


----------



## Rooslin

after a few days with the second edition I'm 99% confident that this mouse will be my main mouse (I was using an FK2 for about two years).

Before getting the s1 I bought a Gpro, dm1 pro s, revel (I also previously owned a FK2, ZA 13, razer abyssus, kinzu v2 pro, SS 100, finalmouse ergo, razer taipan, madcatz rat 5, deathadder, SS sensei)

I use fingertip grip

GPRO - I thought I would really like this one since I used to mainly use the abyssus before deciding upon the FK2, but the sides were a bit to rounded and the clicks were way too light. I would accidentally fire a shot off in cs go 2-3 times a match and could never get used to the lightness of mouse 1 and 2. Mouse 1/2 did feel great even with being too light.

DM1 PRO S / Revel - Both of these mice felt the same to me but I chose the revel to use since it was a bit smaller. the mouse was good though not as good as the FK2 (mostly a shape thing). my only gripe with the revel was when pulling the mouse down on the pad the back mouse foot would catch on the mouse pad a tiny bit. The catch on the feet never really went away as I had imagined it would with wear.

Scream 1 - I have no defect with my mouse. Being a fingertip user I often lift my mouse up and have never had the mouse 1 or 2 activate upon landing (was able to reproduce it by slamming it down with the intent of getting a landing activation). No issues with pushing multiple buttons at the same time, and I have had no issues with the scroll wheel so far. The shape of the mouse feels great.

Just some thoughts so far on the mouse and a few others.

If Zowie release an updated FK2 with a 3360 I would definitely buy that to test against the S1


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rooslin*
> 
> If Zowie release an updated FK2 with a 3360 I would definitely buy that to test against the S1


A lot of people here will be buying Zowie's with 3360's in them.

Again Zowie will always be late to the sensor update party, like previous releases so just be patient and they shall arrive.


----------



## gunit2004

New Scream One (my 2nd copy, going to be returning the 1st one which had a couple of minor issues).

This new copy is pretty much perfect (for the time being







). Good clicks, no rattles or anything like that.

In fact... I didn't have any rattles on my first one either so that is interesting to hear that is such a recurring issue for people.

As long as this new one remains trouble-free (side buttons don't suddenly implode into the mouse or something along those lines) than I will definitely be keeping it and using it as my main. I very much enjoy the shape and feel of the S1 and aim well with it.


----------



## nillington

We shouldn't feel so slighted by how long it took people to get their hands on a Scream 1; looks like it takes Finalmouse themselves over a year to pick one up and put it in the mail


----------



## espn

Super expensive with a very cheap looking, I would say the cost is like $10 and they charge you...


----------



## gene-z

Did they increase the price, or has it always been $80 on Amazon? I could have sworn it was $70 before. Still an absolutely ridiculous price to essentially be a beta tester for them. Maybe by the time they release the version without branding they'll have all these issues ironed out.


----------



## mcg75

This thread has been temporarily locked to allow users to read this message because of how quickly some people jump to conclusions that aren't from the reality the rest of us live in.

We had a new user join today to share a video about his dissatisfaction with the product this thread is based upon.

His thread was removed due to strong language that is not tolerated at OCN. The author in question was sent a PM explaining that he is more than welcome to share any experience whether negative or positive with the product but it was going to conform to our terms of service that every single member here agreed to abide by when signing up. That means zero swearing.

Every single member here is also free to share their opinion about said product regardless of experience.

And as politely requested, Moses has done some editing and has a new thread.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1622987/finalmouse-sucks-updated

This thread has now been re-opened.


----------



## roz133

I ordered this from outside the US/EU through esportstore spending more than I've ever spent on a mouse (even the g900 was cheaper to get). I'm regretting that decision right now.


----------



## hasukka

Some problems with Finalmouse and S1 have been exaggerated. There are obvious problems with QC, but still most of the S1:s work just fine. I've had an Ergo and an S1 without any problems.

I find the S1 very good, it has some cons (f.e. LOD and surface) but overall it's a very good mouse. However I do not think it's worth the 84euros I paid for it.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Some problems with Finalmouse and S1 have been exaggerated. There are obvious problems with QC, but still most of the S1:s work just fine. I've had an Ergo and an S1 without any problems.
> 
> I find the S1 very good, it has some cons (f.e. LOD and surface) but overall it's a very good mouse. However I do not think it's worth the 84euros I paid for it.


A mouse that costs 84 euros should have no issues what so ever.

My latest gripe with S1 is the feet. I wish they had no sharp cornes


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> A mouse that costs 84 euros should have no issues what so ever.
> 
> My latest gripe with S1 is the feet. I wish they had no sharp cornes


It's not possible to create a product where every unit is perfect. But I agree, the price is too high.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> It's not possible to create a product where every unit is perfect. But I agree, the price is too high.


Stop defending them...

Its not possible, but FM seems to have a very high failure rate. Ive already had 2 units myself.
This mice is, as we all know, just a quantity over quality mouse, marketed very very heavly, and obviously it has worked as it sold out very quickly.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> This mice is, as we all know, just a quantity over quality mouse, marketed very very heavly, and obviously it has worked as it sold out very quickly.


They're following a tried and true method here much like Razer's early years. Spend heaps on PR and Advertising so swallow in the newbs and gullible which helps to bolster their bottom line.

All they will do is announce another ALL-Fixed model and we have that whole process repeating again with newbs and loyalists.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Our team has a clear understanding of all the problems we face. Yes a lot of s1 issues have been over exaggerated. We spend lots of time QCing our units, testing performance, etc... And frankly we are very happy with where the s1 is as a product right now. It's the best performing mouse, and with the second edition it is one of our best mice in terms of quality and lack of defects. It is the only mouse to be programmed in the US and then sent to China for final assembly. In terms of our design intent, we are closer than we ever have been before to our perfect mouse. (Aside from some cable rattle, braided cable issues, minor rattle, etc..)

This all being said we also face more criticism than ever. And we are aware that this simply boils down to price and transparency in communication. (and communication in general)

Despite having all the performance edges it has the price of the s1 is coming across as insulting to many. And we recognize this. This in turn has created a firestorm we are aggressively attempting to solve. However given the nature of the scream branding, the fact that we program and laser the MCU's here in house, and all the other product development steps we have taken (not to mention all the delays and logistical blockades with scaling) things haven't been as easy.

That being said. Here are the steps we are taking:

1. Price reduction through aggressive volume and retail expansion. I expect in the next week certain retailers will slowly start reducing the price as specific regions start receiving more volume.

2. Increased communication and transparency: We will be taking more steps to effectively communicate what is happening so there is less confusion and misinformation floating around. And also less frustration with delays, announcement misinformation, etc...

3. We will also be rolling out a new RMA system to compliment our 3 year warranty. Despite our track record of good CS, our increasing retail coverage will prove harder to manage with our old system. Before we simply shipped units out to those that needed a replacement , no questions asked. This invited many fraudulent rma attempts, as well as a new inability to cover all regions appropriately.

Tomorrow morning the team will be going over the new system. It will be automated, trackable, scalable, and most importantly transparent.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> ....
> 
> Tomorrow morning the team will be going over the new system. It will be automated, trackable, scalable, and most importantly transparent.


Is it the same system that SteelSeries use, that sends automated messages about moving warehouses?


----------



## fakeusername

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> 3. We will also be rolling out a new RMA system to compliment our 3 year warranty. Despite our track record of good CS, our increasing retail coverage will prove harder to manage with our old system. Before we simply shipped units out to those that needed a replacement , no questions asked. This invited many fraudulent rma attempts, as well as a new inability to cover all regions appropriately.


Is this why the Tournament Pro and Scream One weren't available to buy from outside of the US?


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Our team has a clear understanding of all the problems we face. Yes a lot of s1 issues have been over exaggerated. We spend lots of time QCing our units, testing performance, etc... And frankly we are very happy with where the s1 is as a product right now. It's the best performing mouse, and with the second edition it is one of our best mice in terms of quality and lack of defects. *It is the only mouse to be programmed in the US* and then sent to China for final assembly.


That explains the firmware issues.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We write our own firmware for the scream one. It was developed from the ground up over a long period of time. The pros are we get the best performance , and complete control over the implementation.

Cons are we had to deal with bugs in the first release.


----------



## Aventadoor

Would it be possible to tone down the LED brightness with firmware?
Its too bright and does not go off when computer is turned off.


----------



## Poodle

I'm gonna buy this Scream 1 mouse, but should I wait for better edition with higher quality? Thoughts? I'm from Scandinavia and Maxgamins is selling it. I dont know if their version is 1st or 2. I guess I'll have to wait. Or maybe order from UK amazon the 2nd edition. Still. I'm thinking if the QC gets better closer to summer.

Scream played 4 days ago against G2 his former team and got some cool frags with Scream one so I'm of course a little hyped about that mouse (even tho I know it probably doesnt make me a better player)


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> I'm gonna buy this Scream 1 mouse, but should I wait for better edition with higher quality? Thoughts?


Nobody will STOP you form buying anything you want. Just read what previous customers think about their mouse product and decide for yourself.

Maybe within a another Parallel World, FinalMouse might actually make quality products using best materials here but that would be a total fantasy......


----------



## a_ak57

Talk is cheap, Jude. You can pat yourself on the back as much as you want for the changes you'll supposedly make to your operation, but it doesn't actually matter until 20 years from now when you actually do it.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> I'm gonna buy this Scream 1 mouse, but should I wait for better edition with higher quality? Thoughts? I'm from Scandinavia and Maxgamins is selling it. I dont know if their version is 1st or 2. I guess I'll have to wait. Or maybe order from UK amazon the 2nd edition. Still. I'm thinking if the QC gets better closer to summer.
> 
> Scream played 4 days ago against G2 his former team and got some cool frags with Scream one so I'm of course a little hyped about that mouse (even tho I know it probably doesnt make me a better player)


As a current owner and user - I recommend waiting for at least a rubber cable version to come out. I think if you get a rubber cable version with a working unit and if you enjoy the shape you will very much like the mouse. It's for sure the biggest downside to a proper working unit for me personally and I think others. It's not that the cable functions worse or something like that but rather the resistance it creates when moving across the mousepad surface causes an unenjoyable feeling and inconsistent slow-down. Can you still play with it? Of course - but it's just like riding a bicycle with a twig caught in the spokes.. you can ride but there's an annoying resistance until you get the stick out


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Can you still play with it? Of course - but it's just like riding a bicycle with a twig caught in the spokes.. you can ride but there's an annoying resistance until you get the stick out


Not here recommending Final Mouse products here BUT with any mouse with a braided cable just buy yourself a Mouse Mic Stand with clip and low and behold that mouse cable shall never get in the way of anyone.

You can game like a Crazy, once you remove that mouse cable off that mouse pad you use







.


----------



## muso

Well looks like they aren't just ignoring the issues , that's good. I assume the office has been pretty stressful the past few months. We'll see what the outcome of all this is soon.

I was really keen for this mouse but didn't buy one for the couple reasons addressed by final mouse them selves, price, qc etc. I can't see any reason to not want them to be successful so i wish them all the best with this change.


----------



## m0uz

Damn right when they say it was developed from the ground up over *a long period of time*


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We write our own firmware for the scream one. It was developed from the ground up over a long period of time. The pros are we get the best performance , and complete control over the implementation.
> 
> Cons are we had to deal with bugs in the first release.


When are the models without scream logo coming, and how much will they cost?


----------



## GHADthc

Wellll...that just about clears that up then...guess I'll be dodging that bullet...


----------



## Crazy9000

The price seems high, but they were selling out at that price, so I guess they are priced appropriately







. Maybe if they get everything ironed out and make a larger batch they can reduce the price.


----------



## NovaGOD

Finally i got mine today, weight is great, shape is good, sensor is expected to be good, m1/m2 are just fine just a little loud, no rattle as of now, scroll wheel is awful and cable is worse.







Too early to judge but overall it has a lot of positives for me, regarding the negatives i'll probably replace the cable and maybe the switches, can't do anything about the scroll wheel but it's not a big problem.


----------



## PU skunk

Simple question Jude. I'm skipping the G Pro. What does an S1 with your firmware offer over my $5 raw intellimouse @1000hz (hey thx overclockers!).


----------



## arcrox

Hey Jude, don't make it bad
Take a sad mouse and make it better
Remember to let critics in your heart
Then you can start to make it better
Hey Jude, don't be afraid
Mice were made to have QC issues
The minute you let trolls under your skin
Then you begin to make mice better
And when the returns start to rain, hey Jude, maintain
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his forums posts shorter
Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah


----------



## GHADthc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PU skunk*
> 
> Simple question Jude. I'm skipping the G Pro. What does an S1 with your firmware offer over my $5 raw intellimouse @1000hz (hey thx overclockers!).


If you`ve got a USB 3.0 port handy, and the controller for it plays nice, you can get that polling up to 8000hz on your IME..my controller doesnt seem to play nice with sweetlows new drivers, but its still hitting 2500-3000hz and feels even bwtter than 1000hz.


----------



## PU skunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> If you`ve got a USB 3.0 port handy, and the controller for it plays nice, you can get that polling up to 8000hz on your IME..my controller doesnt seem to play nice with sweetlows new drivers, but its still hitting 2500-3000hz and feels even bwtter than 1000hz.


I got it up to 2000 hz last night on USB2 port but not 3.1 which was strange.
It was a little smoother but I'm afraid to go higher, not knowing what it does to cpu load.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> If you`ve got a USB 3.0 port handy, and the controller for it plays nice, you can get that polling up to 8000hz on your IME..my controller doesnt seem to play nice with sweetlows new drivers, but its still hitting 2500-3000hz and feels even bwtter than 1000hz.


Does it increase max tracking speed ?


----------



## m0uz

This mouse is now known to me as the blue waffle


----------



## Poodle

Is it true that if I use mouse 4 button as "push to talk" in voip, I can not simultaneously fire weapon (activate mouse 1/2) same time with this Scream edition 2 mouse? I saw a youtube video about this which was posted 2 months ago. Does this problem still exist?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Is it true that if I use mouse 4 button as "push to talk" in voip, I can not simultaneously fire weapon (activate mouse 1/2) same time with this Scream edition 2 mouse? I saw a youtube video about this which was posted 2 months ago. Does this problem still exist?


Sort of, I just received my second one, if I press and hold mouse4 or 5, and press mouse1 or 2, it activates the other side button.

Other than that the feet are horrific, they're scraping my mousepad, quite hard actually so I am debating with myself whether or not to put on some other skatez but I've sent finalmouse another email to see what they say


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Is it true that if I use mouse 4 button as "push to talk" in voip, I can not simultaneously fire weapon (activate mouse 1/2) same time with this Scream edition 2 mouse? I saw a youtube video about this which was posted 2 months ago. Does this problem still exist?


I'm pretty sure the latest firmware fixes that.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Those problems have been fixed for about two months now.


----------



## Poodle

Can anybody 100% confirm that latest firmware allows to simultaneosly activate mouse 4 and mouse 1/2. That other guy just received his second mouse recently and it still had that problem??


----------



## aayman_farzand

Yes it's fixed. The other guy needs to download the flasher from the website.


----------



## Aventadoor

Ive noticed the clicks on my S1 has slightly changed. More mushy now


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Ive noticed the clicks on my S1 has slightly changed. More mushy now


Bummer. How long have you had the mouse?


----------



## hasukka

Yeah I am having no trouble with the buttons, however the feet are pretty bad. The glide on my FM Ergo was extremely good, but the feet on S1 sometimes scratch the pad as people here say.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Bummer. How long have you had the mouse?


1 week.
I noticed a slight change in the first S1 I had aswell after approx 1 week.

Yeah, the feet arent the greatest. They really dident think them thru.
Should have been no sharp corners and rounded edges...


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Yes it's fixed. The other guy needs to download the flasher from the website.


Do I need to do that with a scond edition as well ? That seems kind of dumb..


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Do I need to do that with a scond edition as well ? That seems kind of dumb..


Yes if you want a working mouse...


----------



## NovaGOD

Played a little bit more with this mouse, not enough to judge properly due to lack of time but regardless i must say this is the best shape I've ever tried for my hands and grip style. I don't have the "one slams" edition everything works fine i guess, too bad the build quality is horrendous, i knew what to expect having owned a FM ergo 2015 before but i feel this is way worse in terms of quality. It feels like i'm going to completely break it apart every time i press a button.









Seriously FM fix your build quality, you got the shape the weight and the sensor right, just put a decent cable improve build quality and you'll have a good mouse then. Now i cannot recommend it to anyone especially at this price range.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Played a little bit more with this mouse, not enough to judge properly due to lack of time but regardless i must say this is the best shape I've ever tried for my hands and grip style. I don't have the "one slams" edition everything works fine i guess, too bad the build quality is horrendous, i knew what to expect having owned a FM ergo 2015 before but i feel this is way worse in terms of quality. It feels like i'm going to completely break it apart every time i press a button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously FM fix your build quality, you got the shape the weight and the sensor right, just put a decent cable improve build quality and you'll have a good mouse then. Now i cannot recommend it to anyone especially at this price range.


I'm in the same boat as you. I recenetly got a second edition as a replacement for my first one but the feet are not useable, they scratch and aren't smooth







I really wish it was a good mouse


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you. I recenetly got a second edition as a replacement for my first one but the feet are not useable, they scratch and aren't smooth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really wish it was a good mouse


At least you can use hyperglides if the feet is your main problem, g-pro seems to fit great judging from a picture itt. In my unit the feet are not that bad actually, they don't scratch the mousepad but they are not great in terms of glide either.


----------



## nodicaL

I wanted to do a review of this mouse since I've had it once the Second Edition released.
However, everything about this mouse has already been said so it's nothing new.

My takeaway is that:
Best shape for my hand using claw. (20.5 cm x 10.5 cm)
Best performance in my personal tests with aim map stats, HS %, etc.
I debraided it as soon as I got it and had no problem with the cable.
I do use CeeSA para cord for it, and now feels wireless.
I don't get the scroll wheel up bug no matter how fast I've tried.
I've not got the Slam Click to happen to me even once. I haven't tried to seriously break my mouse just to see if it happens though.
Friends have asked what the banging sound is since I like to try and drop it from 2 inches above my mousepad.
The default feet work "okay" but now I use the G Pro feet and it's perfect.
I do get the bug where my monitors never go into sleep mode so I'm looking forward to the up firmware.

My Second Edition box came completely sealed and in good condition. The sticker on the back wasn't put over a First Edition sticker either.

The performance is there for the mouse.
The QC for FinalMouse is lacking, and not just because of price.
You'll get the odd QC issues no matter what you buy and for whatever the amount.
I've had $7000 headphones with problems before getting it resolved.

If you can't afford to take a chance on a dud of a mouse then stay away.
If performance is the most important factor and you got the disposable income then give it a try.


----------



## kashim

in italy it cost like 95 euro...i actually using g102 after had tried revel glossy...is too small i think for my hands 19x10cm...i claw the mouse...probably s1 is better for my grip...but is worth 50 euro over revel?because isn t so bad....i sure take matte over glossy next time


----------



## espn

Best realistic review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MnDoL170z8


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> in italy it cost like 95 euro...i actually using g102 after had tried revel glossy...is too small i think for my hands 19x10cm...i claw the mouse...probably s1 is better for my grip...but is worth 50 euro over revel?because isn t so bad....i sure take matte over glossy next time


Only you can decide if a slightly better grip is worth 50 Euro.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> in italy it cost like 95 euro...i actually using g102 after had tried revel glossy...is too small i think for my hands 19x10cm...i claw the mouse...probably s1 is better for my grip...but is worth 50 euro over revel?because isn t so bad....i sure take matte over glossy next time


Stopped reading after €95


----------



## muso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nodicaL*
> 
> My Second Edition box came completely sealed and in good condition. The sticker on the back wasn't put over a First Edition sticker either.


This seems a lot more legit. i think the majority of peoples problems came from the ones that came opened and resticked. I wonder when AUS will get a batch of the new ones, and the price comes down obviously. Their margins have got to be a lot higher than 40%


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Only you can decide if a slightly better grip is worth 50 Euro.


revel performance are on pair then S1 or g102?


----------



## arcrox

1.2.2 firmware released...time to test the sleep issue. A changelog would be nice!

https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/833893193087406080


----------



## MFlow

Performance boosts, and improvements available on the Scream One Download the new 1.2.2 firmware for maximum 1 taps!...
We can trust this?
Performance boosts? Improvements. .
What does this mean?
Is it possible to set a 500hz polling rate?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

1.2.2 Did the following:

Made adjustments to mousewheel overflow algorithm and other things to address scroll wheel issues. The scroll wheel should no longer change direction anymore even at high scroll speeds. The wheel should perform better than all our past mice models now with the same encoder.

Reworked click release again just slightly. Further optimizing tapping. There is still zero delay on press.

Small performance and code enhancements. Shaving off 10 microseconds here and there. No big changes to loop.

Prepping code base for alternate firmware modes. Will explain below:

Custom firmware modes:

We will be offering firmware modes for users to choose from. The first two will be:

Performance mode (raw low latency) = This is the current firmware design, basically meant to offer the lowest latency all around

Aimassist mode = This mode will do things like add our own special filter, angle snapping, 500hz, etc.... To provide a more assisted aim feel


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> 1.2.2 Did the following:
> 
> Made adjustments to mousewheel overflow algorithm and other things to address scroll wheel issues. The scroll wheel should no longer change direction anymore even at high scroll speeds. The wheel should perform better than all our past mice models now with the same encoder.
> 
> Reworked click release again just slightly. Further optimizing tapping. There is still zero delay on press.
> 
> Small performance and code enhancements. Shaving off 10 microseconds here and there. No big changes to loop.
> 
> Prepping code base for alternate firmware modes. Will explain below:
> 
> Custom firmware modes:
> 
> We will be offering firmware modes for users to choose from. The first two will be:
> 
> Performance mode (raw low latency) = This is the current firmware design, basically meant to offer the lowest latency all around
> 
> Aimassist mode = This mode will do things like add our own special filter, angle snapping, 500hz, etc.... To provide a more assisted aim feel


Jude I have s1 first edition that did not have any firmware updates.
In this case, let me know how to update the firmware.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Jude I have s1 first edition that did not have any firmware updates.
> In this case, let me know how to update the firmware.


FM website has the tool you need to download, Google final mouse and it'll be the first website


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> FM website has the tool you need to download, Google final mouse and it'll be the first website


Thank you.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

First editions can't be updated with that tool. You will need to contact support


----------



## atarii

Open the software and connect the mouse while holding the dpi button, then disconnect the mouse and reconnect it twice (without holding the dpi button) and voilà.

Now:

Ok, the wheel bug is gone (it didn't affect me but ok)
Performance should be increased but noone will notice microseconds LUL

but why the lights of this mouse are still up when i turn off my pc? I dont get it, it's literally the only usb peripheral that does that (we paid a premium price for this, i won't change anything in my bios







).


----------



## davidtran007

Just updated the firmware and can confirm the fast scrolling bug has been fixed.

Computer not being able to idle/sleep bug is still present. Probably related to the light staying on after shut down too? Any ETA on this jude?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidtran007*
> 
> Just updated the firmware and can confirm the fast scrolling bug has been fixed.
> 
> Computer not being able to idle/sleep bug is still present. Probably related to the light staying on after shut down too? Any ETA on this jude?


what problems s1 have after the last update?


----------



## MFlow

My s1 first edition is only the problem of auto actutating of the left button by slamming. Is it better not to update the firmware in this case?


----------



## arcrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> First editions can't be updated with that tool. You will need to contact support


By 1st edition, do you mean strictly in terms of firmware? Those of us who updated our first editions via the hack to 1.1 can use the normal update tool from the website going forward now, right?

ETA on fixing the sleep issue? This is my only real grip with the mouse right now, and it's really annoying having to unplug it when I'm not using my computer.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> My s1 first edition is only the problem of auto actutating of the left button by slamming. Is it better not to update the firmware in this case?


I don't think that would change anything.

You should use the latest firmware if you aren't though, it fixed issues you might run in to eventually.


----------



## NovaGOD

Installed D2FC-F-K(50M) and paracord from CesSa, finalmeme mouse is now usable.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Installed D2FC-F-K(50M) and paracord from CesSa, finalmeme mouse is now usable.


That actually seems like a really good mouse hah


----------



## F3yer

Question:

Does the New firmware 1.2.2 fix the "slam" issue? I bought two 2nd editions and both have rattling scroll wheels, which I guess I can deal with, but whenever I lift my mouse to readjust, it always triggers my LMB.

I know they are supposed to be sensitive, and maybe the mouse just isn't for me, but I'm just wondering if anyone has these issues.

It's probably the hardware and not the firmware obviously but I was hoping by chance it was something that could be fixed.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Question:
> 
> Does the New firmware 1.2.2 fix the "slam" issue? I bought two 2nd editions and both have rattling scroll wheels, which I guess I can deal with, but whenever I lift my mouse to readjust, it always triggers my LMB.
> 
> I know they are supposed to be sensitive, and maybe the mouse just isn't for me, but I'm just wondering if anyone has these issues.
> 
> It's probably the hardware and not the firmware obviously but I was hoping by chance it was something that could be fixed.


Slam issue is hardware not firmware :/


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Slam issue is hardware not firmware :/


I figured. Kinda sucks because everything is almost perfect with the mouse for me, except the scroll wheel rattling. Guess I'll have to continue my search lol. I own like 16-17 different mice. Still can't find one that works perfect.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Question:
> 
> Does the New firmware 1.2.2 fix the "slam" issue? I bought two 2nd editions and both have rattling scroll wheels, which I guess I can deal with, but whenever I lift my mouse to readjust, it always triggers my LMB.
> 
> I know they are supposed to be sensitive, and maybe the mouse just isn't for me, but I'm just wondering if anyone has these issues.
> 
> It's probably the hardware and not the firmware obviously but I was hoping by chance it was something that could be fixed.


Unless you really slam the mouse down while playing, it shouldn't be triggering the buttons. I can't imagine anyone slamming the mouse down hard enough during normal play to trigger mine.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Unless you really slam the mouse down while playing, it shouldn't be triggering the buttons. I can't imagine anyone slamming the mouse down hard enough during normal play to trigger mine.


I don't slam my mouse hard at all. Can't say it's incredibly light or soft cuz I whip my arm fast and adjust fast like during 180 degree movements, but I hardly slam it. And both mice do it. I used my arm more than my wrist mainly cuz I have the room to with a Qck+. Still very difficult to not trigger it. In DMs or really any fast or abrupt movement. It's gotta be just me then, even though I don't slam it. Just lift it and adjust it fast. This is the only mouse I've ever had that does it.

I would say it's a defect but since it's on both mice, still gotta be just me.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> I don't slam my mouse hard at all. Can't say it's incredibly light or soft cuz I whip my arm fast and adjust fast like during 180 degree movements, but I hardly slam it. And both mice do it. I used my arm more than my wrist mainly cuz I have the room to with a Qck+. Still very difficult to not trigger it. In DMs or really any fast or abrupt movement. It's gotta be just me then, even though I don't slam it. Just lift it and adjust it fast. This is the only mouse I've ever had that does it.
> 
> I would say it's a defect but since it's on both mice, still gotta be just me.


Finalmouse knows it clicks when you "slam" the mouse, and says it's a side effect of how they wanted the buttons. It's supposed to be a fairly hard slam to trigger it though. What you described your mouse movements is pretty much the standard for people who are in to FPS games, which is the target market for this mouse.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Finalmouse knows it clicks when you "slam" the mouse, and says it's a side effect of how they wanted the buttons. It's supposed to be a fairly hard slam to trigger it though. What you described your mouse movements is pretty much the standard for people who are in to FPS games, which is the target market for this mouse.


That's what I figured too. Ive been playing CS for over a decade and couldn't imagine that my movements were that aggressive in comparison to others. And it's not really that hard to trigger the LMB on both mice. I mean I got two of these 2nd editions and both do that same thing. I wouldn't mind if t was just a result of a slam or "slap" on the mousepad, but basically unless I am literally halving my movement speed of my arm during 180s, it will trigger it. It's like I purposely have to be delicate with all my movements. If this is honestly how it was intended, I don't see how anyone who plays FPS games can be satisfied with the mouse unless they are playing on very high sensitivity.

Again, maybe it's just me, but both mice do this and it's pretty unusable.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> I figured. Kinda sucks because everything is almost perfect with the mouse for me, except the scroll wheel rattling. Guess I'll have to continue my search lol. I own like 16-17 different mice. Still can't find one that works perfect.


I'm in the same boat as you except I've hit 40 :/


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Unless you reset abnormally aggressively or grip very aggressively during the swipe the clicks shouldn't register. There are plenty of videos of pros and users swiping T ornament pro and classic ergo across large mousepads to do 180's at high speeds and both models are more sensitive than s1.

Swipes should generally look like http://youtu.be/X3sMnZL9tkA

At around 1:08 , you'll start seeing 180 degree fast swipes.

You see one 180 swipe here at slightly higher sens: https://twitter.com/selflessryu/status/796731751196459008

Can go grab more over shoulder clips later but basically every pro cs player we have tested with will swipe very fast in the same way. Fast initial motion and then dampen a bit on the end of the motion.

Unless you are one of the few that does not do this dampening at the end of the swipe (which can cause a slam or slap on the pad) it shouldn't actuate.

There are people out there who are very heavy handed and aggressive that we have seen have problems with classic ergo in the past... But it's few and far between. your grip style will also play a role, as well as the last mouse you used. We have mice we compare to that are equally sensitive, some are more sensitive, some are less. There is a wide variety of click travel and force in today's mice so what you are used to doing plays a big role


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Unless you reset abnormally aggressively or grip very aggressively during the swipe the clicks shouldn't register. There are plenty of videos of pros and users swiping T ornament pro and classic ergo across large mousepads to do 180's at high speeds and both models are more sensitive than s1.
> 
> Swipes should generally look like http://youtu.be/X3sMnZL9tkA
> 
> At around 1:08 , you'll start seeing 180 degree fast swipes.
> 
> You see one 180 swipe here at slightly higher sens: https://twitter.com/selflessryu/status/796731751196459008
> 
> Can go grab more over shoulder clips later but basically every pro cs player we have tested with will swipe very fast in the same way. Fast initial motion and then dampen a bit on the end of the motion.
> 
> Unless you are one of the few that does not do this dampening at the end of the swipe (which can cause a slam or slap on the pad) it shouldn't actuate.
> 
> There are people out there who are very heavy handed and aggressive that we have seen have problems with classic ergo in the past... But it's few and far between. your grip style will also play a role, as well as the last mouse you used


Thanks for the response. Very in-depth. I do dampen a bit when I am finishing my swipe, but typically I think my mouse is at a high LOD than as shown with AdreN, which could potentially be causing the actuation. I know I definitely do not reduce my acceleration as much as most, which could also be an issue. So it seems like it's less "slam", and more of an issue of the LOD and lack of deceleration during my reset.

I also sometime grip aggressively which could cause the actuation as well. I am a fingertip/claw hybrid. Very tense movement and rigidity during a 180 degree turn. So this could be why I am really not "slapping" or "slamming" the mouse, but the aggressive reset due to the LOD could cause the actuation.

Given this, I am assuming that the Scream One probably isn't the best mouse for me? If so, is there another you recommend? If needed since this is a Scream One thread, I can send you an email. Just let me know which email to send it to.


----------



## trhead

So basically its not gonna be fixed because "you're doing it wrong".


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> So basically its not gonna be fixed because "you're doing it wrong".


I wouldn't say he worded it that harshly, just means that my rigidity in movement and LOD isn't suitable for such a sensitive mouse. Lots of pros use the same dampening method, which HONESTLY is better and faster during adjustments, then high acceleration during a reset. He's right. Most pros do use that method. Just something I've never done because I rely on my accuracy of the readjustment in order to make fewer micro adjustments after I swipe. But yeah. For most CSGO players this isn't an issue


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Thanks for the response. Very in-depth. I do dampen a bit when I am finishing my swipe, but typically I think my mouse is at a high LOD than as shown with AdreN, which could potentially be causing the actuation. I know I definitely do not reduce my acceleration as much as most, which could also be an issue. So it seems like it's less "slam", and more of an issue of the LOD and lack of deceleration during my reset.
> 
> I also sometime grip aggressively which could cause the actuation as well. I am a fingertip/claw hybrid. Very tense movement and rigidity during a 180 degree turn. So this could be why I am really not "slapping" or "slamming" the mouse, but the aggressive reset due to the LOD could cause the actuation.
> 
> Given this, I am assuming that the Scream One probably isn't the best mouse for me? If so, is there another you recommend? If needed since this is a Scream One thread, I can send you an email. Just let me know which email to send it to.


Based on this I would suspect it's either the lack of dampening in your swipe.... Or your grip and actual fingers actuating it during aggressive situations, combined with the downward force.... Hard to say, there are so many factors...but you may be in the category of users that would have had issues with classic ergo as well. (Or maybe not due to its different shape)

There are 4 options.

1: try adapting to the mouse. As with any mouse change it takes a couple weeks for grips and subtleties to adapt to new click sensitivity or shapes. Individuals who came from huanos switches to the classic ergo in the past found that a bit of time and muscle memory changed everything

2. If you are an avid tinkerer or keen on modding you can replace the switches with higher force switches. Simply make sure you contact support and inform them you want a modded warranty exception and tell them I sent you.

3. Can similarly mod the mouse plungers and shave them off to create more artificial click travel. Be careful to only do a very tiny bit.

4. Return the mouse and stick with mice that have stiffer actuations. Or even possibly different shapes that allow you to keep more pressure off the clicks. The s1 has a lot of surface area taken by the clickers. Even though classic ergo has more sensitive clicks I've noticed that the thumb groove and ergo shape does take some of the hand pressure off the clicks.

So there may be mice with similar click travel and actuation force that may be more suitable simply due to how the shape forces a certain grip.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Based on this I would suspect it's your grip and actual fingers actuating it during aggressive situations, combined with the downward force.... Hard to say but you may be in the category of users that would have had issues with classic ergo as well.
> 
> There are 4 options.
> 
> 1: try adapting to the mouse. As with any mouse change it takes a couple weeks for grips and subtleties to adapt to new click sensitivity or shapes. Individuals who came from huanos switches to the classic ergo in the past found that a bit of time and muscle memory changed everything
> 
> 2. If you are an avid tinkerer or keen on modding you can replace the switches with higher force switches. Simply make sure you contact support and inform them you want a modded warranty exception and tell them I sent you.
> 
> 3. Can similarly mod the mouse plungers and shave them off to create more artificial click travel. Be careful to only do a very tiny bit.
> 
> 4. Return the mouse and stick with mice that have stiffer actuations. Or even possibly different shapes that allow you to keep more pressure off the clicks. The s1 has a lot of surface area taken by the clickers. Even though classic ergo has more sensitive clicks I've noticed that the thumb groove and ergo shape does take some of the hand pressure off the clicks.
> 
> So there may be mice with similar click travel and actuation force that may be more suitable simply due to how the shape forces a certain grip.


I'll consider option 1 or 2. Never modded a mouse before but I would love to do that just because the Scream One is nearly perfect for me. I figure it make take some effort to mod, but hopefully I can find someone to do it or a guide or something. Should I just contact FinalMouse support for this warranty exception?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Yea just contact support. Let them know I sent you for a modding exception on the warranty. But I'm confident you may adapt before swapping switches would be necessary. You will have the return window open regardless so it won't hurt to try.


----------



## davidtran007

Jude, can you comment on the idle/sleep bug and the light staying on after the PC is shut off?


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you except I've hit 40 :/


You still have them? I have had like 10 and sold them except of two but there is still no perfect mouse


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> You still have them? I have had like 10 and sold them except of two but there is still no perfect mouse


I like having them so I can frantically switch 20 times each week ^^


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I like having them so I can frantically switch 20 times each week ^^


Same.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> 2. If you are an avid tinkerer or keen on modding you can replace the switches with higher force switches. Simply make sure you contact support and inform them you want a modded warranty exception and tell them I sent you.


This is really cool Jude. Can I do the same? Mine should be reaching in 3 4 days max and I definitely wanna swap out the cable for a ceesa paracord and from the reviews I'll probably get a stiffer switch as well but I was on the fence about it coz of the qc issues so far and worries about voiding warranty.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> I figured. Kinda sucks because everything is almost perfect with the mouse for me, except the scroll wheel rattling. Guess I'll have to continue my search lol. I own like 16-17 different mice. Still can't find one that works perfect.


I think a little sand paper or a file would fix that real quick.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think a little sand paper or a file would fix that real quick.


I've honestly never modded a mouse before. I'd love to learn tho


----------



## popups

I want to try out the shape of the Scream1, but the price and quality is just to far from each other to be considered a good buy. It wouldn't be smart to buy the Scream1 when I can buy a Nixeus Revel for $45.

I want something better than the shape of my FK and weighs 80g. I guess it's time to try out 3D printed shells.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I want to try out the shape of the Scream1, but the price and quality is just to far from each other to be considered a good buy. It wouldn't be smart to buy the Scream1 when I can buy a Nixeus Revel for $45.
> 
> I want something better than the shape of my FK and weighs 80g. I guess it's time to try out 3D printed shells.


There is a chinese alternative for ~$25. Shape is pretty close. I posted some pictures in this thread


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Yea just contact support. Let them know I sent you for a modding exception on the warranty. But I'm confident you may adapt before swapping switches would be necessary. You will have the return window open regardless so it won't hurt to try.


Jude,I asked to supporter by email how to update the firmware for the s1 first edition, which did not update.
Perhaps the supporter did not seem to have read my email properly.
If I run the old link that Jude has uploaded to the thread, is that material that I can download?
Should the first firmware of the first edition be updated on Windows 7? Updated in Windows 10?


----------



## MFlow

Crazy9000 solved my question.
Thank you.?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> There is a chinese alternative for ~$25. Shape is pretty close. I posted some pictures in this thread


I don't want to buy a throw away mouse to get something that is sort of shaped like the FinalMouse. I don't even think the shape of the Scream1 is perfect for me.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Jude I still haven't heard back from Support with a link to the download for the First editions. Can you please post a link here?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Jude I still haven't heard back from Support with a link to the download for the First editions. Can you please post a link here?


Here is the e-mail Finalmouse sent me for firmware updating my First Edition S1. I think the link is still good, hope it helps you. I did it on windows 10.

Note- the mouse has to be plugged in to back of PC, not on front USB port or a hub.

--

Hello,

The below instructions are a bit more complicated than what future Scream one batches will require... But rest assured it will update your scream one to the most up to date firmware, and all future firmware updates will be much simpler!

Firstly, here is the link to download the firmware update tool for the first batch of scream ones. Please note this is to be used only on the first batch of scream ones, and never for any future updates.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tgciqu93quxfpua/Final%20Mouse%20Firmware%20Upgrade_v1.zip?dl=0

Once downloaded follow the steps below:

1.Run application as administrator and allow the app to make any changes to the device if prompted.

2.In the Upgrade Tool you should see the last line of text say "listening for FinalMouse devices in ISP Mode." If this is the last line of text you see, click on "Upgrade Finalmouse Scream Firmware" button.

3.After clicking the button you will be prompted to install a driver. Continue this through the Wizard that pops up. (Note: The Scream One will no longer be working during this step, to make the remaining steps easier we recommend using another (non-scream one) mouse to continue the update process.)

4.Once you hit Finish in the driver wizard you will see a command line tool prepare the mouse to be updated via some automatic commands. Once this has happened, you will see a warning prompt that says "Additional Action Required..." This notifies you to unplug and reconnect the mouse. At this point the last line of text should say "Found Finalmouse device in bootloader mode." Go ahead and Unplug and Replug the Scream One to continue the update process.

5.Once replugged you should see a prompt that says "Successfully updated Scream One Firmware, eject USB drive to finalize.".

6.To finalized the the update you must unplug the scream one again but DO NOT replug yet.

7.Once the mouse is unplugged you will see a prompt that says "all devices using this driver will be removed." Hit Yes to continue, this will uninstall the driver that you had previously installed in an earlier step.

8.The last line of the upgrade tool should say "Firmware driver uninstalled" at this point it is safe to plug the mouse back in and the scream one should be updated successfully.

Crazy9000 sent me pm.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Is that for firmware 1.2.2? I have that exact same email for the FW that fixed the button presses, I want the FW that fixes the scroll wheel.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Is that for firmware 1.2.2? I have that exact same email for the FW that fixed the button presses, I want the FW that fixes the scroll wheel.


That's...
http://www.finalmouse.com/shop.php
Keep your scroll down.
Then you can see the link.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Is that for firmware 1.2.2? I have that exact same email for the FW that fixed the button presses, I want the FW that fixes the scroll wheel.


After you do the initial update to a first edition, it's a second edition and uses the normal firmware updates.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Oh, I thought the 1st edition had to go through the same process regardless. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edit: Upgraded to the latest firmware, scroll bug is fixed.


----------



## atarii

Now we just need the led/sleep bug to be fixed.

And since they are releasing various firmware, i would like the raw one with a lift-off distance decreased by around 25%


----------



## aayman_farzand

It would be pretty neat if they could release a tool that lets you customize whatever you want, but it goes against their philosophy of no softwares. I doubt anyone even cares if the mouse comes with software as long as it functions the way it was programmed without it.


----------



## Woodee

So, after waiting three days for any sort of response from FinalMouse support, I've decided to do my best to protect any potential future buyers from this product and hopefully bury this POS back from which the depths it came.

Jude is outright, blatantly lying to everyone in this thread. The click actuation issue is EXTREME, even on the second edition. I have attached a video of me letting the mouse fall on its own weight from about 1cm or less height and it clicks almost every time.

https://vid.me/S9Qq

I am a competitive CS player. I can not play with this mouse. The narrative that "We can't get it to actuate during gameplay" is simply a lie. Forget playing, I can't go into a server and practice smokes without throwing them at the ground during swipes. This is on two mousepads. The amount of times I swiped and the left click would fire my rifle mid turn was enough to make me want to Scream.

This would be a different ballgame to me if Jude's response here had essentially been, "Hey, we messed up. Core design issues came up unforeseen and crippled the mouse. We'll hit the mark next time, apologies."

But no, the second edition just needs a better cable and lower price, yeah Jude? It's embarrassing how badly FinalMouse is handling this. Do NOT buy this mouse. If you've owned it for less than 30 days, send it back to Amazon.

Disappointed.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

@Woodee

Your video indicates a defective unit. Once support sees that they will issue you a replacement.

You have an abnormally light click. Possible switch defect or click travel variance defect. It should take a minimum of 2 inches+ to consistently have the mouse actuate from a drop.


----------



## Woodee

Well, support has had this video for 3 days. If they want to do something about it, their court. If I receive a unit somewhere down the line that doesn't do this, I'll update accordingly. But frankly, I'm not convinced mine is a snowflake.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

They will respond, I'm not sure why it's taking them so long. They have a clear guideline for defective/abnormally sensitive clicks. Dating back to classic ergo


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Does your right click feel lighter than the left click? That's the best way to tell if it's defective. Both clicks should have the same consistently crisp and slightly heavy click feel to it.


----------



## BlazeGaming

Hey Jude, did you get my PM?


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Does your right click feel lighter than the left click? That's the best way to tell if it's defective. Both clicks should have the same consistently crisp and slightly heavy click feel to it.


If I apply the same pressure, the right click does actuate significantly sooner in the press than the left click. However, the left click actuates during game play from very minor swipes. So, are you saying both buttons are defective?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

When I hear someone say that the click actuates from minor swipes in game I immediately jump to the click being defective but, I can't be sure. Dropping or slamming the mouse is also not a sure fire way of telling. If you pick up and drop in different ways the ricochet of the drop can make the click actuate from pretty low distances but the clicks could be perfectly normal. Our clicks are freely housed and independently moving, so they flex under force easily. Meaning a slam or drop without your hands or fingers on the clicks to dampen their movement can make them seem more sensitive than they are.

The only way to be sure is to see a video of you doing a "minor swipe" in game and seeing what happens. I don't know what your minor swipe looks like.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> When I hear someone say that the click actuates from minor swipes in game I immediately jump to the click being defective but, I can't be sure. Dropping or slamming the mouse is also not a sure fire way of telling. If you pick up and drop in different ways the ricochet of the drop can make the click actuate from pretty low distances but the clicks could be perfectly normal.
> 
> The only way to be sure is to see a video of you doing a "minor swipe" in game and seeing what happens. I don't know what your minor swipe looks like.


Right, but you've already stated my unit is defective from the previous video, correct?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Your right click is most definitely more sensitive than it should be. That is all I can tell from your video. I can not tell if this is affecting Your gameplay. They are two different issues. And I don't want to assume a defective right click is causing your problems.

Classic ergo, tournament pro, and s1 all have independent housed clickers. So the ricochet of a drop or slam will always actuate a click. Whether that's 1cm or 2 inch depends on each click. But in game and in practice this all goes out the window because the clicks are being dampened by your hand and fingers. 180 degree swipes are done on the classic ergo and s1 by many pros and tens of thousands of cs players. we see it in person day in and day out.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Your right click is most definitely more sensitive than it should be. That is all I can tell from your video. I can not tell if this is affecting Your gameplay. They are two different issues. And I don't want to assume a defective right click is causing your problems.
> 
> Classic ergo, tournament pro, and s1 all have independent housed clickers. So the ricochet of a drop or slam will always actuate a click. Whether that's 1cm or 2 inch depends on each click. But in game and in practice this all goes out the window because the clicks are being dampened by your hand and fingers.


Great, I'll wait to hear from support.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I'd like to see a video of you doing a minor swipe in game. Can you provide that?


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I'd like to see a video of you doing a minor swipe in game. Can you provide that?


Absolutely. I have linked two videos. One video is of the Scream swiping with actuation; one video is of the same swipes followed by much rougher slamming on the Logitech 403 with zero actuation.

Scream One 2nd Edition: https://vid.me/OmEV

403: https://vid.me/mbkA


----------



## FinalmouseJude

You swipe like that in game? With your fingers off the mouse ? And with that type of placement motion?

If you swipe like that naturally then I'm afraid every s1 will actuate for you. And you are better off on anther mouse.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> You swipe like that in game? With your fingers off the mouse ? And with that type of placement motion?
> 
> If you swipe like that naturally then I'm afraid every s1 will actuate for you. And you are better off on anther mouse.


If I swipe the Scream with my fingers actually on the buttons the actuation increases significantly. You absolutely can not apply any pressure to the buttons while swiping or the clicking is much much more frequent.

"If you swipe like that naturally" What? You JUST said my product is defective and now you're saying its due to my play, when I just demonstrated a competitor that doesn't actuate once under much rougher conditions?

I rest my case at this point. Everything in my original post here stands. This is a waste of time.

Do not buy this mouse.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

So this is actually a great example because these swipes involve a lot of hard placements. You can hear the mouse slap on the surface with each swipe.

The s1 or even classic ergo for that matter will not work on people with these types of swipes. Maybe we can in the future change the design up to allow this to happen.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I completely agree with you. Some Competitor mice will allow for these types of swipes where it's being placed down in an up and down motion more aggressively. this is a situation where the s1 can not be used.


----------



## m0uz

You heard it here first, folks. The MemeOne can't be lifted... at all. Cement that bugger onto your pad!


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Maybe we can in the future change the design up to allow this to happen.


Like the design of literally every other non-Finalmouse on the market allows? Sick.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> So this is actually a great example because these swipes involve a lot of hard placements. You can hear the mouse slap on the surface with each swipe.
> 
> The s1 or even classic ergo for that matter will not work on people with these types of swipes. Maybe we can in the future change the design up to allow this to happen.


Yeah, I mean being able to tap into the same markets as Zowie, Logitech, Steelseries, and Razer would probably be a great idea for a new mouse manufacturer.

Maybe in the future allowing people to be able to use the CSGO marketed mouse in CSGO would be a good idea.

So is my mouse defective or was it "not designed" for me? Which is it?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> Maybe in the future allowing people to be able to use the CSGO marketed mouse in CSGO would be a good idea.
> 
> So is my mouse defective or was it "not designed" for me? Which is it?


Think of it like this... they are selling a baseball glove for left handers. The glove isn't going to work well if you're right handed. That doesn't mean it's a design flaw, it's just designed for a specific playstyle, or more accurate doesn't work with a specific playstyle.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

I'm trying to make it clear that with the swipe you showed me (where on every swipe I see and hear the mouse slap ) no finalmouse will be compatible with. The design will not allow for that kind of swipe. It's a very high swipe where the replacement results in a downward slap.

Perhaps many other mice allow for this. And in this case they would be more suitable.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Think of it like this... they are selling a baseball glove for left handers. The glove isn't going to work well if you're right handed. That doesn't mean it's a design flaw, it's just designed for a specific playstyle, or more accurate doesn't work with a specific playstyle.


What I'm demonstrating isn't that it's a left handed glove for right handed players.

I'm showing you that this is a baseball glove with a massive gaping hole in the palm that no one in their right mind should ever enter a baseball field with.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> I'm trying to make it clear that with the swipe you showed me (where on every swipe I see and hear the mouse slap ) no finalmouse will be compatible with. The design will not allow for that kind of swipe. It's a very high swipe where the replacement results in a downward slap.
> 
> Perhaps many other mice allow for this. And in this case they would be more suitable.


Okay, and the original video with the drops where you said it indicated a defective unit? I mean, is this still true?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Yes I believe you mentioned even that the right click is more sensitive. I compared your video with how some s1s here behave.

But in this case a more firm click will not help your in game issue is what I'm saying.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Yes I believe you mentioned even that the right click is more sensitive. I compared your video with how some s1s here behave.
> 
> But in this case a more firm click will not help your in game issue is what I'm saying.


Okay, so we've established my particular unit has problems and that it may or may not improve my experience when resolved. Do you suggest I just send it back for a refund? I am more than willing to try a fully functioning unit.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

You are free to do either option. My personal opinion based on seeing those swipes is that you will have issues on any s1.

Obviously if you tell support your click is abnormally light you will get a free replacement and then you can also get a refund after too, so you don't have anything to lose. (FYI to everyone that the new rma and support system going into place next week will no longer allow this )


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> You are free to do either option. My personal opinion based on seeing those swipes is that you will have issues on any s1.
> 
> Obviously if you tell support your click is abnormally light you will get a free replacement and then you can also get a refund after too, so you don't have anything to lose. (FYI to everyone that the new rma and support system going into place next week will no longer allow this )


Well if support responds to me before the new RMA next week then I'll go for a new one to see if it's any different. If support is still dead by next week, I'll just take my money.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> Absolutely. I have linked two videos. One video is of the Scream swiping with actuation; one video is of the same swipes followed by much rougher slamming on the Logitech 403 with zero actuation.
> 
> Scream One 2nd Edition: https://vid.me/OmEV
> 
> 403: https://vid.me/mbkA


This is pretty much the same issue I have. I just got a 3rd Scream One Second Edition and FINALLY the scroll wheel isn't rattling. I'm returning the other 2. But this is the same issue I am experiencing. I have been able to adjust a bit to make the mouse work better. But try to lower the LOD when you are swiping. It helps. But you are right, its very difficult to use this mouse if you are aggressive swipers like us. It is a very good mouse, but it's designed for people we are not heavy handed. Basically, we cant lift our mouse at all to adjust unless you are dampening your movements at the end of the swipe. That's how I see if. No other mouse I've ever had has this issue, but thats probably because of how the mouse is made. It is designed to be this way.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.

1. Price drops:

With the arrival of a bigger volume shipment of units and also the implementation of the new rma and support system there will be a noticable price drop within the next week or two. This will continue for future s1 units.

2. TP and ergo return:
TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.

3. New rma system is being implemented. Now individuals will be issued an rma number and a return label to ship back defective units under warranty. Upon receiving and verifying the defect our support team will ship out a replacement to any part of the world.

4. All our cables are being changed. Won't be rubber, but will be even more flexible than rubber.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 
> 1. Price drops:
> 
> With the arrival of a bigger volume shipment of units and also the implementation of the new rma and support system there will be a noticable price drop within the next week or two. This will continue for future s1 units.
> 
> 2. TP and ergo return:
> TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.
> 
> 3. New rma system is being implemented. Now individuals will be issued an rma number and a return label to ship back defective units under warranty. Upon receiving and verifying the defect our support team will ship out a replacement to any part of the world.
> 
> 4. All our cables are being changed. Won't be rubber, but will be even more flexible than rubber.


Is it possible to have mouse feet replacements? The mouse feet are pretty sharp and drag on the mousepad.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 
> 2. TP and ergo return:
> TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.


Will the s1 and TP still use the same shell ?


----------



## Woodee

And for the record, I do not consider my swipes hard by any margin. I have small hands, and most of my friends/teammates swipe significantly harder than me at lans.

Upon showing these videos to my team, their response was, "I can't possibly see how you've been playing with that mouse." They are the ones who pushed me to go at FinalM with this.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> This is pretty much the same issue I have. I just got a 3rd Scream One Second Edition and FINALLY the scroll wheel isn't rattling. I'm returning the other 2. But this is the same issue I am experiencing. I have been able to adjust a bit to make the mouse work better. But try to lower the LOD when you are swiping. It helps. But you are right, its very difficult to use this mouse if you are aggressive swipers like us. It is a very good mouse, but it's designed for people we are not heavy handed. Basically, we cant lift our mouse at all to adjust unless you are dampening your movements at the end of the swipe. That's how I see if. No other mouse I've ever had has this issue, but thats probably because of how the mouse is made. It is designed to be this way.


I see where you're coming from, however I think it is a disservice to the consumer and FinalMouse as a company to play this off as a "feature" as opposed to a design flaw.

The bottom line is that this mouse does not function in an environment where literally the entire rest of the market performs flawlessly. If FinalMouse does not recognize the swipe actuation as a major design short-coming, the product will blow up in their face.

FinalMouse will not survive in their current mindset.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> I see where you're coming from, however I think it is a disservice to the consumer and FinalMouse as a company to play this off as a "feature" as opposed to a design flaw.
> 
> The bottom line is that this mouse does not function in an environment where literally the entire rest of the market performs flawlessly. If FinalMouse does not recognize the swipe actuation as a major design short-coming, the product will blow up in their face.
> 
> FinalMouse will not survive in their current mindset.


I agree with you completely. Just trying to explain that literally nothing can be done about it really unless they literally change the design of the mouse, which isn't going to happen because it's already a sunk cost for them.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> I agree with you completely. Just trying to explain that literally nothing can be done about it really unless they literally change the design of the mouse, which isn't going to happen because it's already a sunk cost for them.


I understand and agree completely.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> I understand and agree completely.


Remember, most people don't have this slam actuation issue at all. I haven't been able to do it once, and I will not be slamming the mouse to my desk any harder than I've tried. Your replacement will most likely be a lot better in this regard.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Remember, most people don't have this slam actuation issue at all. I haven't been able to do it once, and I am not slamming the mouse to my desk any harder than I've tried. Your replacement will most likely be a lot better in this regard.


Someone representing the company has been telling me the exact opposite of that, so.

Again, instead of all the risk and mystery involved in the purchase of this mouse, why bother? We don't live in a world with no alternatives. And its the most expensive in its class, the real joke here.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 
> 1. Price drops:
> 
> With the arrival of a bigger volume shipment of units and also the implementation of the new rma and support system there will be a noticable price drop within the next week or two. This will continue for future s1 units.
> 
> 2. TP and ergo return:
> TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.
> 
> 3. New rma system is being implemented. Now individuals will be issued an rma number and a return label to ship back defective units under warranty. Upon receiving and verifying the defect our support team will ship out a replacement to any part of the world.
> 
> 4. All our cables are being changed. Won't be rubber, but will be even more flexible than rubber.


Any ETA on the cables? When it happens are retailers gonna be able to tell whether it has the new cable? Will there ever be a S1 without the signature (basically a TP with S1 feature set)? Guess I will be buying a new one after the cables will be changed.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> Someone representing the company has been telling me the exact opposite of that, so.
> 
> Again, instead of all the risk and mystery involved in the purchase of this mouse, why bother? We don't live in a world with no alternatives. And its the most expensive in its class, the real joke here.


Yea I saw the discussion, it's hard to tell from a video. But trust me, there is no way you will be able to in game slam actuate an unit that's like mine if you get one as a replacement.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Remember, most people don't have this slam actuation issue at all. I haven't been able to do it once, and I will not be slamming the mouse to my desk any harder than I've tried. Your replacement will most likely be a lot better in this regard.


I have 3 of these and all 3 do it.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 
> 2. TP and ergo return:
> TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.


Jude, Tell me when it's possible for consumers to purchase the new tp and ergo version on Amazon.
You have to be as honest as you can.
It's hard to wait.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If you swipe like that naturally then I'm afraid every s1 will actuate for you. And you are better off on anther mouse.


Cool, when will this trinket of information be put on the website and Amazon product description so potential buyers will know whether this mouse is a no-go for them and avoid wasting their time?

If you guys can alert your customers about the "NXP chipset" and "SMT LED's", I'm sure you can pencil in this detail as well. I mean, it's the least that could be done since FM isn't gonna...you know, address the issue completely normal feature.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Two of my friends accidentally actuates MB1/2 with the G303 and G403, they simply don't work for them.

I've been gaming with my hard pad for the two month's I've had this mouse, didn't accidentally actuate once. If this problem was more common, we'd see way more complaints about it.

Just get your replacement and see if that helps. If it doesn't then get a refund and move on to the G403. If pricing is also an issue then why even buy this in the first place.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Two of my friends accidentally actuates MB1/2 with the G303 and G403, they simply don't work for them.
> 
> I've been gaming with my hard pad for the two month's I've had this mouse, didn't accidentally actuate once. If this problem was more common, we'd see way more complaints about it.
> 
> Just get your replacement and see if that helps. If it doesn't then get a refund and move on to the G403. If pricing is also an issue then why even buy this in the first place.


I own 3. All 3 do it. And a lot of people do actually comment on it


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Cool, when will this trinket of information be put on the website and Amazon product description so potential buyers will know whether this mouse is a no-go for them and avoid wasting their time?
> 
> If you guys can alert your customers about the "NXP chipset" and "SMT LED's", I'm sure you can pencil in this detail as well. I mean, it's the least that could be done since FM isn't gonna...you know, address the issue completely normal feature.


I kinda agree with this. I want to work to fix this mouse for me as much as possible, but they should probably alert customers about this.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Two of my friends accidentally actuates MB1/2 with the G303 and G403, they simply don't work for them.
> 
> I've been gaming with my hard pad for the two month's I've had this mouse, didn't accidentally actuate once. If this problem was more common, we'd see way more complaints about it.
> 
> Just get your replacement and see if that helps. If it doesn't then get a refund and move on to the G403. If pricing is also an issue then why even buy this in the first place.


Everything is anecdotal. The difference is I have evidence to support my claims.

Oh, their 403 has bad actuation issues? Weird, I just posted a video of me slamming the piss out of mine and not a single problem. Nor is there a problem during game play with the 403.

Wow, experiences are different. Wow, all products don't come off the line the same. These facts add literally nothing compelling to this thread.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> Oh, their 403 has bad actuation issues? Weird, I just posted a video of me slamming the piss out of mine and not a single problem. Nor is there a problem during game play with the 403.
> 
> Wow, experiences are different. Wow, all products don't come off the line the same. These facts add literally nothing compelling to this thread.


"Their" 403/303 doesn't have actuation issues, they borrowed mine for a couple of days and I can use both mice perfectly fine. Also, the actuation was from the way they grip it, not from slamming it.

I can get my S1 to actuate with a slam, no problems in game.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> "Their" 403/303 doesn't have actuation issues, they borrowed mine for a couple of days and I can use both mice perfectly fine. Also, the actuation was from the way they grip it, not from slamming it.
> 
> I can get my S1 to actuate with a slam, no problems in game.


All 3 of mine don't actuate with slams, they actuate with literal mouse lifts. I am not slamming my mouse in any fashion. I'm not a brute lol. I hate that it's called a slamming problem now because people don't realize how light of force you actually need to actuate it. I barely lift my mouse off the mousepad and can EASILY trigger it. I've gotten a bit better with it cuz I'm adjusting my playstyle now, and sure maybe it's all about adjusting to such a sensitive mouse, but it is fairly easy to actuate and I don't see how people aren't encountering this.


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> That actually seems like a really good mouse hah


Sadly it's far from good even with these mods due to poor build quality.









The entire mouse creaks, m1/m2 also and the side buttons seems like they're gonna break if i press them hard enough, i have crouch on m4 so i pressed it hard enough on a "panic crouch spray" and i almost broke it.







I'm gonna use it for a week or more and then probably switch back to g403. The performance is good however, sensor seems very responsive and buttons have no delay. S1 shape/weight with logitech build quality would be end-game mouse for me.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Sadly it's far from good even with these mods due to poor build quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The entire mouse creaks, m1/m2 also and the side buttons seems like they're gonna break if i press them hard enough, i have crouch on m4 so i pressed it hard enough on a "panic crouch spray" and i almost broke it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna use it for a week or more and then probably switch back to g403. The performance is good however, sensor seems very responsive and buttons have no delay. S1 shape/weight with logitech build quality would be end-game mouse for me.


Same tbh. I'm in the same boat as you. It's literally a perfect mouse for me if the build was better and they somehow fixed the actuation issue.


----------



## kiz3r

Just received my Scream One today as a replacement for a broken Tournament Pro. But all credit to Finalmouse customer support, I sent them an email Monday and today I received a brand new Scream One. All seems good too, it feels solid with no creeks or rattles







.

Have to say though, I've read the past couple of pages and I'm utterly puzzled by Jude's response.

The switches require pretty much the same pressure as the TP I had. I can rest fingers on the buttons when swiping too. Surely this has be possible for a mouse aimed at players that are predominately going to be using low sensitivity?

It seems pretty clear to me that Woodee has a defective unit even if there's no difference in actuation force required between M1/M2 as Jude suggested.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> Just received my Scream One today as a replacement for a broken Tournament Pro. But all credit to Finalmouse customer support, I sent them an email Monday and today I received a brand new Scream One. All seems good too, it feels solid with no creeks or rattles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Have to say though, I've read the past couple of pages and I'm utterly puzzled by Jude's response.
> 
> I can drop this S1 from half a foot (and probably much further) above the mouse pad and M1/M2 still don't actuate. The switches require pretty much the same pressure as the TP I had. I can rest fingers on the buttons when swiping too. Surely this has be possible for a mouse aimed at players that are predominately going to be using low sensitivity?
> 
> It seems pretty clear to me that Woodee has a defective unit even if there's no difference in actuation force required between M1/M2 as Jude suggested.


Half a foot? I drop it a couple centimeters and it'll actuate...did I seriously get 3 defective units in a row?


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Half a foot? I drop it a couple centimeters and it'll actuate...did I seriously get 3 defective units in a row?


It was an exaggeration. I've edited it out now as to not mislead. So I've just done some more testing and I understand more what you mean. I can drop it from a few cm's up without it actuating consistently but very strangely I just encountered the same issue you have where it would actuate the right mouse every time I dropped it. But now I just can't reproduce it...


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> It was an exaggeration. I've edited it out now as to not mislead. So I've just done some more testing and I understand more what you mean. I can drop it from a few cm's up without it actuating consistently but very strangely I just encountered the same issue you have where it would actuate the right mouse every time I dropped it. But now I just can't reproduce it...


It happens a lot for me. i need to be incredibly sensitive and delicate. I can't lift my mouse much.


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> It happens a lot for me. i need to be incredibly sensitive and delicate. I can't lift my mouse much.


Still can't reproduce it. Even when being very heavy-handed. How strange. When it did do it, it wasn't the buttons actuating the switches as I wasn't using anywhere near enough force, I was just very gently tapping it on the pad.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> Still can't reproduce it. Even when being very heavy-handed. How strange. When it did do it, it wasn't the buttons actuating the switches as I wasn't using anywhere near enough force, I was just very gently tapping it on the pad.


Exactly. That's exactly the issue. I don't even rest my fingers on the mouse and I can do it with ease. Just resetting and lifting the mouse even a little bit, it will actuate. It happens a lot and I have to change my swiping methods completely in order to use the mouse.


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 
> 2. TP and ergo return:
> TP and ergo are returning without scream branding but new design ways. Price will be less than s1, but they will not use our in house programmed MCU. They will still be outfitted with new sensors.... But will have legacy settings. 500hz, slightly slower click latency which may be a good thing for those wanting some debounce, and obviously the performance of our in house firmware won't be there. And you won't have aim assist mode or other future s1 firmware modes.


What is aim assist mode?


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> What is aim assist mode?


Does this also mean I'm going to have to buy another mouse to get one that works for me?


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Does this also mean I'm going to have to buy another mouse to get one that works for me?


RMA them. Why do you have 3?


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> RMA them. Why do you have 3?


I'm in the process of Doing the amazon return thing. And I got 2 just to ensure quality since I heard the QC is sub par on them. Still didn't work out lol. But it seems bizarre that 3 in a row would have a defect. That's not normal at all.


----------



## shaiaz

I would love this mouse so much more if it was ~10% or 20% smaller


----------



## t3ram

Got the second edition, wasnt really better than the first edition i had before, i think i am gonna mod a g403 and use that from now on, probably never gonna buy a finalmeme again


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Got the second edition, wasnt really better than the first edition i had before, i think i am gonna mod a g403 and use that from now on, probably never gonna buy a finalmeme again


What issues were you having with it?


----------



## t3ram

scrollwheel, which seems to be fixed now
no deep sleep and led always on
no painting on the edges...


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> scrollwheel, which seems to be fixed now
> no deep sleep and led always on
> no painting on the edges...


Scroll wheel rattle?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> Scroll wheel rattle?


Scroll wheel scrolling issues. Not rattle.
Scrolling fast up or down sometimes would skip a step and scroll in the opposite direction.
After updating to 1.2.2 - the fast scrolling in either direction seems to be fixed.
But, instead I get a random up and down scroll when I don't even touch the scroll wheel. Has happened 3 times in the past day.

Example:
mwheelup = incendiary/molotov grenade
mwheeldown = jump

Random bug in-game (CS:GO) the wheel activates both mwheelup and mwheel down causing me to switch to a incendiary/molotov grenade and jump simultaneously.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Scroll wheel scrolling issues. Not rattle.
> Scrolling fast up or down sometimes would skip a step and scroll in the opposite direction.
> After updating to 1.2.2 - the fast scrolling in either direction seems to be fixed.
> But, instead I get a random up and down scroll when I don't even touch the scroll wheel. Has happened 3 times in the past day.
> 
> Example:
> mwheelup = incendiary/molotov grenade
> mwheeldown = jump
> 
> Random bug in-game (CS:GO) the wheel activates both mwheelup and mwheel down causing me to switch to a incendiary/molotov grenade and jump simultaneously.


Happens to me as well. Just checked


----------



## F3yer

I'm just gonna switch back to my GPro or FK1 until FinalMouse can sort out what they are doing with the S1. Like 99% of the mouse is great but that 1% leaves it completely unusable for me.


----------



## popups

So the Scream1 will always be blue with a signature and the Tournament Pro will be the same mouse as before just with the 3360?


----------



## P54J

Is anyone else bothered by buttons? It makes me want to play on Logitech...
I would actually play on logitech if it wasn't for self-adjusteable sensor framrate that is always the same on FM. Why there isn't an option to choose?


----------



## atarii

on the s1 the framerate is fixed on 12k all the time, right?


----------



## NovaGOD

What's wrong with the variable framerate??


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> on the s1 the framerate is fixed on 12k all the time, right?


no


----------



## VESPA5

Probably the best $79.99 I've RETURNED via Amazon.com. I have yet to get a mouse to replace my wired G403 (for shooters) and DA:Elite (for work in the office). I'm thinking that at this price point, the mouse better be darn near perfect. This price point is almost the same cost for a wireless G403 at Best Buy (they've had the thing randomly for sale for as low as $71.99). It's light and accurate but something about that scrollwheel, it feels off. And what's sad is this was the SECOND edition. Good gawd. Really? So everyone who dropped cash on the FIRST edition got shafted? Wait. I believe this was the same buyer's remorse that people had who bought an iPad 3, the iPad 4 was released that basically fixed all the miffs and muffups that the 3 had. Anyways, it's a terribly good mouse with a terribly cheap feeling to it with a terrible price. At least now I can say I've tried it and now I can form an opinion based on real experience vs. what I've read or seen.


----------



## notzi

So I guess mine isn't 2nd edition... Ordered from maxgaming.



If I'm ordering something with the title Scream One *Second Edition* I'd expect to get one..

Jesus I'm annoyed.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> no


what's the fps on the s1?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for reference,
> 3360/3366 framerate modes are approximately
> 
> 4100
> 4900
> 5900
> 11600
> 
> it varies by a few percent from sensor to sensor though
> 
> when accelerating, the transition speeds are roughly at 0.4m/s, 0.8m/s, and 1.2m/s
> i.e.
> in the accelerating portion of the swipe, the sensor starts at 4100fps, increases to 4900fps after hitting 0.4m/s, increases to 5900fps after hitting 0.8m/s, increases to 11600fps after hitting 1.2m/s.
> when decelerating, the transition speeds are lower (don't remember exact values), so there's a bit of hysteresis in the mode-switching.
> 
> 3310 and 3988 are similar, but with 3 modes


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Probably the best $79.99 I've RETURNED via Amazon.com. I have yet to get a mouse to replace my wired G403 (for shooters) and DA:Elite (for work in the office). I'm thinking that at this price point, the mouse better be darn near perfect. This price point is almost the same cost for a wireless G403 at Best Buy (they've had the thing randomly for sale for as low as $71.99). It's light and accurate but something about that scrollwheel, it feels off. And what's sad is this was the SECOND edition. Good gawd. Really? So everyone who dropped cash on the FIRST edition got shafted? Wait. I believe this was the same buyer's remorse that people had who bought an iPad 3, the iPad 4 was released that basically fixed all the miffs and muffups that the 3 had. Anyways, it's a terribly good mouse with a terribly cheap feeling to it with a terrible price. At least now I can say I've tried it and now I can form an opinion based on real experience vs. what I've read or seen.


You still haven't slowed down. You need to get tested.


----------



## P54J

FM feels a bit like DM, and from what i know same factory and same pcb?
I wouild describe as you would normally decrease sensitivity because small/micro movements would go too far. is this fixed highest-sensor framrate?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> So I guess mine isn't 2nd edition... Ordered from maxgaming.
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm ordering something with the title Scream One *Second Edition* I'd expect to get one..
> 
> Jesus I'm annoyed.


Same story here...







but instead of maxgaming I got it from esports.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P54J*
> 
> FM feels a bit like DM, and from what i know same factory and same pcb?
> I wouild describe as you would normally decrease sensitivity because small/micro movements would go too far. is this fixed highest-sensor framrate?
> Same story here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but instead of maxgaming I got it from esports.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one/3470#post_25867849


----------



## Bucake

@P54J iirc Mototech.










finalmouse logo on the pcb in the dm mouse. classic.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The best part was them being delusional and having mototech add a "copyright final mouse" to the pcb.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> So I guess mine isn't 2nd edition... Ordered from maxgaming.
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm ordering something with the title Scream One *Second Edition* I'd expect to get one..
> 
> Jesus I'm annoyed.


Had the same, but mine was second edition anyway. DIdn't jave any problems either.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We fab our own pcbs and program and laser our own mcus. S1 is all proprietary and Inhouse internally...

With fastest tested click latency and sensor latency of any mouse we know of on market. So no there is no mouse like the s1 or with the s1 internals.

Edit: shape is all proprietary as well. Nothing with the same externals either


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Like I said...delusional.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> laser our own mcus

























dude just stop


----------



## popups

I thought the Scream1's click latency is 3-4ms slower than what is possible... There are other mice out there with less debounce.


----------



## Klopfer

btw what happens to that "IR" Switches from Bloody ( A4Tech ) ?


----------



## P54J

OK, if it's not sensor framerate, what makes this mouse feel and handles so differently?
Why Logitech did not put effort into making the fastest, 0 latenecy, cosmic mcu dino laser mouse in the market?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P54J*
> 
> OK, if it's not sensor framerate, what makes this mouse feel and handles so differently?
> Why Logitech did not put effort into making the fastest, 0 latenecy, cosmic mcu dino laser mouse in the market?


Logitech had lower debounce until people complained.


----------



## Klopfer

yea , and a small company maybe can try it again , but not a "global player" ... too much RMA , too much mimimi about double clicks etc ...








that's sad








btw I like the actual Logitech click feel ( G303/G403/G Pro/G102/203/G900 )


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Logitech lower debounce until people complained.


uhh...

Anyway, outside of the G3 Laser it's been about the same the entire time. The most recent change was in 2014 when they introduced the +2ms delay on liftoff feature.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> "IR" Switches from Bloody ( A4Tech ) ?


The only switch I have ever had that "pings" when you click it.


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Had the same, but mine was second edition anyway. DIdn't jave any problems either.


Yeah, got email from support saying it's 2nd edition and updating firmware was successful.
Forgot to mention that the top sticker was already cut off, so it could've been opened already.

Works well, though.


----------



## favoxhille

Is the tapping the mouse on the mousepad causing m1 to activate still there for every unit??


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Is the tapping the mouse on the mousepad causing m1 to activate still there for every unit??


Yes


----------



## notzi

I don't know how hard you tap your mouse to activate these buttons. My copy has pretty stiff M1 and M2.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Is the tapping the mouse on the mousepad causing m1 to activate still there for every unit??


I can't get mine to activate under normal circumstances. I would have to hit the desk with my mouse pretty hard to make it activate.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> I can't get mine to activate under normal circumstances. I would have to hit the desk with my mouse pretty hard to make it activate.


Doesn't always happen to me either. But an aggressive swipe would do it.


----------



## favoxhille

Indeed i don't think this would be a problem for me either https://vid.me/OmEV usually when readjust the position of my mouse i do a quite short lift without slamming the mouse.. guess ill find out when i get the mouse


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Indeed i don't think this would be a problem for me either https://vid.me/OmEV usually when readjust the position of my mouse i do a quite short lift without slamming the mouse.. guess ill find out when i get the mouse


The guy on that video had a faulty mouse for sure. I can't get it to activate while swiping like that.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> The guy on that video had a faulty mouse for sure. I can't get it to activate while swiping like that.


That has happened to me on all 3 of the mice I've had. So idk how faulty it is.


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> That has happened to me on all 3 of the mice I've had. So idk how faulty it is.


Well there's no way it's meant to happen so I guess it is fundamentally a fault. The Tournament Pro didn't have this issue as far as I know. Mine certainly didn't anyway.

That said I haven't had any issues with my S1 either (not managed to reproduce the tapping problem after it did it one time), although it hasn't seen much use as I'm using my Revel for CS at the minute.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> Well there's no way it's meant to happen so I guess it is fundamentally a fault. The Tournament Pro didn't have this issue as far as I know. Mine certainly didn't anyway.
> 
> That said I haven't had any issues with my S1 either (not managed to reproduce the tapping problem after it did it one time), although it hasn't seen much use as I'm using my Revel for CS at the minute.


True, I guess either way it can't be considered a "feature" so it is technically a "fault"


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> Well there's no way it's meant to happen so I guess it is fundamentally a fault. The Tournament Pro didn't have this issue as far as I know. Mine certainly didn't anyway.
> 
> That said I haven't had any issues with my S1 either (not managed to reproduce the tapping problem after it did it one time), although it hasn't seen much use as I'm using my Revel for CS at the minute.


To me the argument was never about whether or not it's a fault, which apparently to Jude the jury is still out on.

The issue with FinalMouse's narrative in this thread is the idea that these issues are special little snowflakes and that very few S1s have these problems.

It's just verifiable rubbish at this point. I mean my god, if I bought a Logitech mouse with these problems, they wouldn't even ask how I play. They'd just say, "Oh our mouse actuates when you don't click? You have a problem, it is defective. Closed case."

It would never cross another manufacturer's mind to start with, "Well our mouse wasn't designed for how 90% of people use it" "Well your mouse is defective." Well it wasn't designed for your type of playing." And she expected me to send a video WITH my fingers on the buttons? Hello? I guess so I couldn't prove I wasn't clicking? Also, "aim assist mode."

At this point, its not even a price issue. It's a company's complete disregard for feedback, and it will sort itself out in the marketplace.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> To me the argument was never about whether or not it's a fault, which apparently to Jude the jury is still out on.
> 
> The issue with FinalMouse's narrative in this thread is the idea that these issues are special little snowflakes and that very few S1s have these problems.
> 
> It's just verifiable rubbish at this point. I mean my god, if I bought a Logitech mouse with these problems, they wouldn't even ask how I play. They'd just say, "Oh our mouse actuates when you don't click? You have a problem, it is defective. Closed case."
> 
> It would never cross another manufacturer's mind to start with, "Well our mouse wasn't designed for how 90% of people use it" "Well your mouse is defective." Well it wasn't designed for your type of playing." And she expected me to send a video WITH my fingers on the buttons? Hello? I guess so I couldn't prove I wasn't clicking? Also, "aim assist mode."
> 
> At this point, its not even a price issue. It's a company's complete disregard for feedback, and it will sort itself out in the marketplace.


Yeah, personally I don't understand the perspective of "we designed this mouse for a different playstyle than your own". I think that's something they should have at least alerted people before they purchased it...


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> To me the argument was never about whether or not it's a fault, which apparently to Jude the jury is still out on.
> 
> The issue with FinalMouse's narrative in this thread is the idea that these issues are special little snowflakes and that very few S1s have these problems.
> 
> It's just verifiable rubbish at this point. I mean my god, if I bought a Logitech mouse with these problems, they wouldn't even ask how I play. They'd just say, "Oh our mouse actuates when you don't click? You have a problem, it is defective. Closed case."
> 
> It would never cross another manufacturer's mind to start with, "Well our mouse wasn't designed for how 90% of people use it" "Well your mouse is defective." Well it wasn't designed for your type of playing." And she expected me to send a video WITH my fingers on the buttons? Hello? I guess so I couldn't prove I wasn't clicking? Also, "aim assist mode."
> 
> At this point, its not even a price issue. It's a company's complete disregard for feedback, and it will sort itself out in the marketplace.


I really don't understand what you expect Jude to have done differently. The mouse was designed and produced with this "drawback", all of them have it. Jude told you an RMA probably wouldn't change anything after seeing how you use the mouse, and that you should return the mouse for a refund.

Finalmouse should definitely figure out a way to inform people of this BEFORE they buy the mouse however.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I really don't understand what you expect Jude to have done differently. The mouse was designed and produced with this "drawback", all of them have it. Jude told you an RMA probably wouldn't change anything after seeing how you use the mouse, and that you should return the mouse for a refund.
> 
> Finalmouse should definitely figure out a way to inform people of this BEFORE they buy the mouse however.


The first, immediate, response was that the mouse was defective and support should sort it out. Then, it changed to questions about how I play. And then, as if to prove every negative thing anyone has ever said about FM correct, proceeded the route of play style being an issue, and that the S1 wasn't designed for swipes.

What to do differently? Consistent responses. I was told no S1 would work for me, AFTER being told my mouse had problems. Which is it? If my mouse has problems, how can I know a complete one wouldn't function? However, another user in this thread went through 3 mice and one of them had no actuation issue. Some claim it's a defect, some claim they never had the issue.

But I come out, demonstrate my exact problem in the most transparent way possible, even against a direct competitor, and wind up with no real answers. Amazing.

"Aim assist mode" coming soon though, catch a VAC ban on top of your swipe shots.

Also, just because I feel like it needs to be said, if it IS true that the S1 was designed with such a ridiculously touchy click switch and FM is going to stick by that as a consciously added feature, write it on:

The box.

The manual.

The Amazon Page.

The website.

Or, just let consumers paying double your competition's price QA it all for you, and make sure the mice rolling off the same line are also temperamentally inconsistent.

If only they had a second release as an opportunity to fix issues or at least the way the consumers can learn about the "features."

Oh.


----------



## Crazy9000

Here's me swiping a bit, and I don't have any problems with it shooting in game, even when I try lifting my fingers a bit towards the end. Not sure how it helps really, other then to show some people don't have an issue.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> "Aim assist mode" coming soon though, catch a VAC ban on top of your swipe shots.


Nah that won't happen. It's just the jude account making stuff up.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Nah that won't happen. It's just the jude account making stuff up.


But Scream got all good again all of sudden.


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> "Aim assist mode" coming soon though, catch a VAC ban on top of your swipe shots.


Has there been anymore details on this? I saw Jude mention it in a post but I'm intrigued as to what it could possibly mean


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> But Scream got all good again all of sudden.


He is on the gear bois


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> But Scream got all good again all of sudden.
> 
> 
> 
> He is on the gear bois
Click to expand...

Relax he's being Sarcastic. You have to know that about him before taking everything as Gospel from him.

If you try to be sarcastic, popups will shoot down a gear to climb even higher on the Sarcasm Mountain range, where no one else can even traverse in real life







.


----------



## ncck

@crazy

My pad is larger and my sens is lower, so when I do 'furious' swipes (you do this in twitch shooters, like quake) sometimes when I run out of pad and have to lift/replace very fast I was getting it to accidentally actuate. Anyway it's different for everyone and some may never experience it. But I think the end result is the same.. this should be fixed in future products - no point in even having it happen with a small chance. That's my take


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Here's me swiping a bit, and I don't have any problems with it shooting in game, even when I try lifting my fingers a bit towards the end. Not sure how it helps really, other then to show some people don't have an issue.


The way you are swiping, it actually actuates for me. I only need to drop it about 6 centimeters for it to actuate on all 3 S1's that I have.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Relax he's being Sarcastic. You have to know that about him before taking everything as Gospel from him.
> 
> If you try to be sarcastic, popups will shoot down a gear to climb even higher on the Sarcasm Mountain range, where no one else can even traverse in real life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I am going to get a Scream1 to gear up for 2017.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

You must realize we have access to actual data from thousands of purchases. Not just a sample of the vocal minority.

If people were having their mouse actuate accidentally consistently we would be dealing with refunds and rmas since the first classic ergo. That's not too say people have not had this issue. There are individuals from 2 years ago with aggressive swiping that contacted us.

Accidental actuation accounts for less than most everything else. With the s1 it is statistically the least represented issue we deal with. The funny part is the issue we get the most of, people in these enthusiast communities don't mention as often. Trusting the data from thousands of individuals is just better than listening to the vocal minority.

And for the record the biggest issue on the s1 we get is double clicking at a 6% rate. Normally this would be a large number but we are going to live with it and the subsequent rma/warranty costs to keep our zero click delay.

And aim assist mode is simply adding filtering, together with 500hz, and angle snapping. We are going to have various firmware modes you can easily swap in for your s1. One of these will also include an added click delay mode as well. These firmware modes will essentially give you the option of transforming your mouse into something fundamentally completely different from a code/performance perspective.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

First firmware mode will be aim assist mode. Going to release it this week.


----------



## popups

Doesn't the Scream1 have a 2-3ms of debounce on single buttons presses?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

No it does not. If you test it correctly it should be zero.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woodee*
> 
> "Aim assist mode" coming soon though, catch a VAC ban on top of your swipe shots..


Oh, I didn't know that changing your polling rate and enabling angle snapping can get you a VAC ban. Good to know.


----------



## Woodee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Oh, I didn't know that changing your polling rate and enabling angle snapping can get you a VAC ban. Good to know.


Oh, so once the ridiculous jargon has finally been clarified, you swoop in for the sarcasm.

I'm not even going to touch on the hilarity of calling angle snapping and adjustable rates "aim assist mode"


----------



## shaiaz

Why would aim assist mode use 500hz instead of 1000hz ?


----------



## notzi

After quite some gaming I feel really big difference between M1 and M2.

M1 feels like it doesn't release the click fast enough, is mushy, and feels like it's glued or something.
M2 however feels much more satisfying. I can actually spam the click much faster than the "glued" M1. The M2 button has more pre-travel as well. I had exactly the same problem with Ninox Aurora, where the M1 felt like it had been used for ages.
This problem occurs in-game when I sometimes shoot 2-3 times accidentally with rifles, when I try to shoot only one bullet.

Can you guys spam M1 without the feeling of it getting stuck? If you understand what I mean.

Wrote this in a hurry so I hope you understood some of my explanations.


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> After quite some gaming I feel really big difference between M1 and M2.
> 
> M1 feels like it doesn't release the click fast enough, is mushy, and feels like it's glued or something.
> M2 however feels much more satisfying. I can actually spam the click much faster than the "glued" M1. The M2 button has more pre-travel as well. I had exactly the same problem with Ninox Aurora, where the M1 felt like it had been used for ages.
> This problem occurs in-game when I sometimes shoot 2-3 times accidentally with rifles, when I try to shoot only one bullet.
> 
> Can you guys spam M1 without the feeling of it getting stuck? If you understand what I mean.
> 
> Wrote this in a hurry so I hope you understood some of my explanations.


I haven't had this issue. But I may have used it less than you do far


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3yer*
> 
> I haven't had this issue. But I may have used it less than you do far


Okay, thanks. Maybe I'll consider getting it replaced. Otherwise, I'm surprised how good this mouse feels.
Last time I felt really satisfied with a mouse was in 07, when I bought DA 3G.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> After quite some gaming I feel really big difference between M1 and M2.
> 
> M1 feels like it doesn't release the click fast enough, is mushy, and feels like it's glued or something.
> M2 however feels much more satisfying. I can actually spam the click much faster than the "glued" M1. The M2 button has more pre-travel as well. I had exactly the same problem with Ninox Aurora, where the M1 felt like it had been used for ages.
> This problem occurs in-game when I sometimes shoot 2-3 times accidentally with rifles, when I try to shoot only one bullet.
> 
> Can you guys spam M1 without the feeling of it getting stuck? If you understand what I mean.
> 
> Wrote this in a hurry so I hope you understood some of my explanations.


Would definitely get a replacement. Paying this much, you don't want to live with a mouse with issues.

My first copy was okay but had some minor issues. 2nd copy is perfect so far.

If you can get your hands on a good copy (which sadly may take some patience and effort), the mouse indeed has a good shape and I find that I can play really well with it so I will be keeping this 2nd copy and using it as my main.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> After quite some gaming I feel really big difference between M1 and M2.
> 
> M1 feels like it doesn't release the click fast enough, is mushy, and feels like it's glued or something.
> M2 however feels much more satisfying. I can actually spam the click much faster than the "glued" M1. The M2 button has more pre-travel as well. I had exactly the same problem with Ninox Aurora, where the M1 felt like it had been used for ages.
> This problem occurs in-game when I sometimes shoot 2-3 times accidentally with rifles, when I try to shoot only one bullet.
> 
> Can you guys spam M1 without the feeling of it getting stuck? If you understand what I mean.
> 
> Wrote this in a hurry so I hope you understood some of my explanations.


I used mine for two weeks and had no problems like this. A lot of H1Z1 and some CS. Definitely would have felt the difference on the clicks.

I started to get minor wrist pain after a week of using the S1, it continued and got worse. Switched back to G Pro for a while at least. The wrist pains could also be excercise related, so gonna switch back to S1 in a week and see how my wrist reacts. I had similiar, but a lot worse pain in my wrist with Zowie ZA & FK models.


----------



## ZupaDupaMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We are going to have various firmware modes you can easily swap in for your s1. One of these will also include an added click delay mode as well.


Please let us chose debounce delay too, and the left and right button separately.

I've recently bought a used scream one where I could fix the left button's double clicking by sand papering the plastic part that actuates the switch. But couldn't make it work for the right button so it would be awesome if it will be fixable via firmware.


----------



## Nilitsu

When will this mouse be available in Canada?


----------



## F3yer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZupaDupaMan*
> 
> Please let us chose debounce delay too, and the left and right button separately.
> 
> I've recently bought a used scream one where I could fix the left button's double clicking by sand papering the plastic part that actuates the switch. But couldn't make it work for the right button so it would be awesome if it will be fixable via firmware.


Agreed. I think they are planning on doing it, which would be great. It'll obviously mess up some of the performance of the mouse though I think


----------



## killeraxemannic

Well I just ordered one of these bad boys. Hoping it goes well. I have fairly wide hands (18CM L/11CM W) and this seems like the perfect mouse for that. I like the Death Adder Elite shape but there is something about it that just doesn't work for me because my accuracy takes a noticeable turn for the worse when I use it.. Not sure why because it should be good for me on paper. I am thinking the Scream One will be perfect for me because it is lighter and is a little bit more of a basic shape. It's going to be hard for it to beat my current favorite though which is the Roccat EMP. Everyone says that the EMP is too heavy but I am not so sure about that... Maybe I just do better with heavier mice.... Either way the Scream One is going to be my way to test that.... 2 3360 based mice, both for large hands, one heavy and one light. We shall see!


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Well I just ordered one of these bad boys. Hoping it goes well. I have fairly wide hands (18CM L/11CM W) and this seems like the perfect mouse for that. I like the Death Adder Elite shape but there is something about it that just doesn't work for me because my accuracy takes a noticeable turn for the worse when I use it.. Not sure why because it should be good for me on paper. I am thinking the Scream One will be perfect for me because it is lighter and is a little bit more of a basic shape. It's going to be hard for it to beat my current favorite though which is the Roccat EMP. Everyone says that the EMP is too heavy but I am not so sure about that... Maybe I just do better with heavier mice.... Either way the Scream One is going to be my way to test that.... 2 3360 based mice, both for large hands, one heavy and one light. We shall see!


If it doesn't work out hori edge is an alternative that is close to the same size =)


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> If it doesn't work out hori edge is an alternative that is close to the same size =)


Never heard of it but it looks interesting. Looks like it has an older sensor though. I do seem to play better with 3360 mice in general so that might be one worth waiting to see if they update to a 3360.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Never heard of it but it looks interesting. Looks like it has an older sensor though. I do seem to play better with 3360 mice in general so that might be one worth waiting to see if they update to a 3360.


it has a 3989 which is also pretty goood, definitely not a bad one. Weight is kind of high which is my main issue with the mouse :/ And yes no one knows about it


----------



## roz133

Mine just arrived. Ordered second edition. First edition box. Seal was broken. Asked esportstore why and they said FM just packed them in first edition boxes and that it is indeed second edition. I don't quite buy it since if it was indeed actual 2nd editions they wudn't have to break the seal to fix the update issue. This should be returned or unsold first editions with just the firmware update made possible to end users.

So I finished with firmware updation. Left click is very 'muddy' compared to the right (kinda like there's something inside the click that sticks and pulls it back downwards slightly on button release) and the right click double clicks once in a while (close to 5% of the time). Sent support a mail and was told "you will need to go through esportstore.com for your return at this time as we are unable to fulfill to India. "

Paid more for this mouse including intl shipping and customs than I paid for even the g900. By the time I saw that video about the Canadian guy's support related issues my order had already shipped and I could see this coming. Sigh. Gonna talk to esportstore and see if they will pay for return shipping and customs on the replacement product (if any) as FM's policy is to accept returns and pay for the defective piece's shipping.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> While I'm available today I'm gonna make a few housekeeping announcements.
> 3. New rma system is being implemented. Now individuals will be issued an rma number and a return label to ship back defective units under warranty. Upon receiving and verifying the defect our support team will ship out a replacement to any part of the world.


Any updates on that Jude? Coz customer care says they cannot fulfill to India. If you cannot ship to India can you at least accept returns and ship to a US address?

Edit : Also wanted to say after playin a couple of maps and some dm, this is probably the best mouse for me personally out of maybe 40ish I've tried. Other than the left click being slightly muddy everything else about the mouse is perfect for me and I can't get it to auto activate no matter what. Right click double clicking is an issue in Dota only for me so it's not really affecting my CS. The clicks are also about 6ms faster than the revel that I've been using till now. Love the mousewheel and I don't scroll super fast so I'm yet to have the scroll wheel bug either.


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Mine just arrived. Ordered second edition. First edition box. Seal was broken. Asked esportstore why and they said FM just packed them in first edition boxes and that it is indeed second edition. I don't quite buy it since if it was indeed actual 2nd editions they wudn't have to break the seal to fix the update issue. This should be returned or unsold first editions with just the firmware update made possible to end users.
> 
> So I finished with firmware updation. Left click is very 'muddy' compared to the right (kinda like there's something inside the click that sticks and pulls it back downwards slightly on button release) and the right click double clicks once in a while (close to 5% of the time). Sent support a mail and was told "you will need to go through esportstore.com for your return at this time as we are unable to fulfill to India. "
> 
> Paid more for this mouse including intl shipping and customs than I paid for even the g900. By the time I saw that video about the Canadian guy's support related issues my order had already shipped and I could see this coming. Sigh. Gonna talk to esportstore and see if they will pay for return shipping and customs on the replacement product (if any) as FM's policy is to accept returns and pay for the defective piece's shipping.
> 
> Any updates on that Jude? Coz customer care says they cannot fulfill to India. If you cannot ship to India can you at least accept returns and ship to a US address?
> 
> Edit : Also wanted to say after playin a couple of maps and some dm, this is probably the best mouse for me personally out of maybe 40ish I've tried. Other than the left click being slightly muddy everything else about the mouse is perfect for me and I can't get it to auto activate no matter what. Right click double clicking is an issue in Dota only for me so it's not really affecting my CS. The clicks are also about 6ms faster than the revel that I've been using till now. Love the mousewheel and I don't scroll super fast so I'm yet to have the scroll wheel bug either.


Lol, my seal was broken and M1 muddy as well. Haven't done RMA yet, though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Relax he's being Sarcastic. You have to know that about him before taking everything as Gospel from him.
> 
> If you try to be sarcastic, popups will shoot down a gear to climb even higher on the Sarcasm Mountain range, where no one else can even traverse in real life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I am going to get a Scream1 to gear up for 2017.


On the gear, boys.


----------



## mikeeymike

Emailed support about price drop and others editions here's the answer:
Quote:


> Hello *******,
> 
> We do not have a price drop ETA that being said, the Scream1 models such as Black Edition will release Q2/Q3 of this year.
> 
> Thanks,
> FM Support


----------



## Bucake

still hilarious seeing a 2000(?) tech mouse in 2017


----------



## popups

I can get m1 and m2 to click if I slam the mouse or drop it high enough to overcome the switch's actuation force. It take some effort... I will see if I have any issues during play...

The scroll wheel encoder appears to activate if I flick the wheel too fast. It could be that the wheel is so light I accidentally scroll the other direction during a quick flick of the wheel. It requires a pretty quick flick to get the mouse to do it, but it is easily done with such a light encoder.

The edges of the mouse feet feel as if they were not as rounded off as they should be. So you get a quick glide that feels rough.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> still hilarious seeing a 2000(?) tech mouse in 2017


I forgot to add the IntelliMouse Optical for that picture. It's sitting on my desk, next to the G100s. Couldn't fit them on the mouse pad anyway.


----------



## muso

Yeah the broken seal stuff is super suspect.


----------



## popups

I played a bunch of DM yesterday with the Scream1. I never had an issue with accidental actuation of the buttons after lifting. However, I did accidentally actuate the scroll wheel too many times to count because the wheel is too light for me.

I find the side buttons to be too far forward considering the arch of the mouse. I can't reach the front side button easily. I have to rest my hand on the mouse, not the mouse pad, to reach them.

The wheel might be a little too high for me using my 1-3-1 grip. I have been trying to get the tip of my finger to rest in the space between the buttons to give me more control, but it has been problematic due to the arch of the mouse and my hand size.

The cable reminds me of the cable from the DeathAdder 3.5g. I didn't directly compare them to verify if they are indeed very similar.

The glide and shape makes it very hard for me to control the mouse well. I have been missing most of my flick shots. I have to put more time in to see if (for me) this mouse ends being one of the worst for landing flicks I have used.

The response of the mouse has been very good. I notice the debounce difference compared to most mice I have used. The buttons are not physically well done, but the coding has made a difference regardless. A quick run of the Human Benchmark reaction time test makes me think I could put down 130-140ms times when I am up for it. With the G303 I was getting around 145ms. It's been nice being able to land shots I wouldn't have landed when using mice with a high debounce time. I was landing a lot of Scout head shots and jumping shots.

Build quality is lacking. I get light bleed at the back of the mouse where the shell pieces meet. There isn't a lot of layers of coating, you can feel how thick it is by touching the logo. I can imagine I could easily scratch it if I am not careful or I could wear it out within a year. Also, the sides lack the grip I need.

I haven't checked to see if I got a updated Scream1 [2nd edition] or I ended up with the original release. I will do that later. Right now I switched to the white Nixeus Revel, using the updated firmware, to see how it compares to the Scream1.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I haven't checked to see if I got a updated Scream1 [2nd edition] or I ended up with the original release. I will do that later. Right now I switched to the white Nixeus Revel, using the updated firmware, to see how it compares to the Scream1.


The original release had some pretty noticeable issues, like not being able to hold two buttons at the same time (to say, scope in and shoot







). You would probably know if you had one.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> The original release had some pretty noticeable issues, like not being able to hold two buttons at the same time (to say, scope in and shoot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). You would probably know if you had one.


I do have phantom scrolls when I flick the wheel.

I seen a couple of videos showing the various firmware issues regarding the buttons. I think one of those videos is after the firmware was updated. So I have no clue what firmware the Scream1 I have is on.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> Lol, my seal was broken and M1 muddy as well. Haven't done RMA yet, though.


Looks like I'll be having some trouble with the RMA. FM support wants me to get it done through esportstore and esportstore says they only have the seal opened, first edition packages. Not sure what to do. Asked for info on ETA of proper 2nd edition packages that are sealed and also whether they will provide a prepaid shipping label to return the mouse as Jude has mentioned in a recent post. Will update with info.


----------



## fakeusername

I ctually have a video of myself scrolling down constantly and it occasionally scrolling up for whatever reason. I never made it public though, what's the point.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

The latest firmware fixes the reverse scrolling


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> The latest firmware fixes the reverse scrolling


And the aim assist firmware, any eta ?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> And the aim assist firmware, any eta ?


They said this week, so expect it sometime in May.

I don't know why they keep doing this lol.


----------



## roz133

Brief review after playing for a couple of days :

The shape is excellent for me. Top coating feels great. Sides aren't coated and get slippery after some time of use, should really be coated. Only design flaw IMO. Cable is usable, not as bad as logitech, braided but fine. Should probably come rolled up instead of bent in the box. Would have been more flexible. No scroll wheel issues. Tried flicking the wheel hard both ways.

Led doesn't sleep, very annoying as I've a fully light proof room since I wake up around 1pm and I'm forced to stick insulation tape over the logo. This needs a fix ASAP. Shouldn't be hard to fix? None of my other 40ish mice have this issue.

Left click is "muddy", for lack of a better word to describe it. Right double clicks occasionally. Not an issue in CS so I don't really care that much. Shouldn't really be happening with a 80$ mouse (115 euros for me). Waiting to see how support handles it before making any further comments on it. No auto actuation whatsoever in-game. I understand that it could be a genuine problem for certain styles/grips but for me personally there's absolutely no issues. Click latency 6ms faster than my revel. Difference is very noticeable. Love it.

Side buttons slightly too forward for my liking but still manageable.

Noticeably lighter than the revel and dm1 pro s which have the most similar shapes.

Overall perfect mouse for me personally as far as design goes. QC not quite up to the mark, even though I didn't encounter any of the issues I was expecting to encounter after reading other people's reviews.

Hopefully future iterations are better. Definitely my go to mouse for now even with the problem clicks.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> They said this week, so expect it sometime in May.
> 
> I don't know why they keep doing this lol.


I suppose they still have time :/


----------



## James N

My Scream one arrived yesterday. I ordered it from the EU Amazon page (they just came back in stock, so i assume they are the newest ones).

After testing it thoroughly.

Closed box without a broken seal (although the second edition sticker was slapped over the original one).

No double clicks , no accidental activation putting the mouse down on the pad after a big swipe (i play @ 48cm/360).

Right click was a tad bit lighter than the left click but overall they felt almost identical (they feel somewhere in between a gpro and a ec1a).

No scrollwheel issues (although my scrollwheel feels really lose.)

No problems in regards to multiple button presses (holding mouse 4+5 then using mouse 3 to zoom in and mouse 2 to fire.) .

So these issues seem to be fixed (at least for the one i received).

The sensor of course feels good and the polling rate consistency of the mouse is up par with the logitech mice that i have used prior to this mouse.

Here are some cons that i think are worth mentioning .

The mouse cable is awful and very stiff.

The mouse feet are sharp and not rounded, so when using the mouse on a softer cloth mousepad, the glide is horrible and it feels sticky.

On a hardpad , no problems at all (tested on the alugraphics gamer pro xxl). On my glorious xxl , it was noticeable but i was able to ignore it for the most part. And on the puretrack talent, qck+ it felt like moving the mouse over rubber, very sticky and annoying.

The left and right mouse buttons feel very mushy with some post travel after actuation. same goes for the sidebuttons.

The mouse quality overall is fine and the coating feels nice, except for the buttons, mouse feet and cable. (if you really like the mouse, get a paracord cable and new mouse feet.)

One last thing that is completely personal preference,

my hands are 11cm wide and 21cm long. Using the mouse in clawgrip gave me cramps after 30 minutes of using it and i was unable to comfortably aim. The mouse felt much easier to aim with, using it in palmgrip. But there is an issue where the right mouse button would pinch my ring finger while using it in palmgrip.

This is completely personal preference and will definitely differ from person to person.

I paid $98 for it and i must say that this is extremely overpriced for what the mouse offers. Even with the cons fixed , i don't feel like the price is justified, especially with other mice out there offering the same if not more for less money.

It is good to see that the major issues have been fixed and that there are only a few things left to improve upon.

I will return the mouse anyways, since i don't think that $98 is justified at all. Personally i think the price tag should be at around $65.

All in all, good job on fixing the issues and after changing the mouse feet and cable and reducing the price , i think a lot of people will be happy with it.


----------



## Aventadoor

Oh is it new firmware out?


----------



## James N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Oh is it new firmware out?


I guess?! I haven't bothered updating it, since the issues that i tested it for weren't present on my mouse. It's already on the way back to amazon.

Here is the link to their firmware updater.
http://www.finalmouse.com/FinalmouseS1updater.exe


----------



## Aventadoor

Yes I know about that.
How do I check which firmware I have currently? I guess its the 1.2.2, or version 2 firmware


----------



## killeraxemannic

Just got my Scream One today. Love the shape! Best shaped mouse I have tried so far! Strangely enough however I ordered the 2nd edition from amazon and the one I got was basically just a first edition box with a sticker over the printing on the box that says second edition. Wondering if they just had extra boxes and didn't want to make new ones or if the 2nd edition is just the first edition with updated firmware. Anyways mine definitely does the click slam M1 button thing and I really don't have to slam it at all... Really just a tap on the pad will activate it. I am actually wondering if the tap mine requires to activate is lighter than everyone else's.... Maybe I should make a video. I don't really do anything strange and I quite often activate the M1 accidentally while playing certain heros in Overwtach. I can lift the front of my mouse less than an inch and let gravity take it down to the pad and it will activate.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If you think it's overly sensitive contact support they will help you out.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If you think it's overly sensitive contact support they will help you out.


I sent an email to support about it. Thanks! Oddly enough it seems like it's much easier to do in overwatch than CS:GO. Anyone have any idea why that would be? Wonder if csgo and overwatch read mouse raw input data differently?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I sent an email to support about it. Thanks! Oddly enough it seems like it's much easier to do in overwatch than CS:GO. Anyone have any idea why that would be? Wonder if csgo and overwatch read mouse raw input data differently?


You're probably moving the mouse differently in OW, making it have more/less of the issue.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> You're probably moving the mouse differently in OW, making it have more/less of the issue.


It's not just that. There is a certain swipe movement I do all the time in game. I can replicate it in both games. If I do it in overwatch it will click every time. CS not so much


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Looks like I'll be having some trouble with the RMA. FM support wants me to get it done through esportstore and esportstore says they only have the seal opened, first edition packages. Not sure what to do. Asked for info on ETA of proper 2nd edition packages that are sealed and also whether they will provide a prepaid shipping label to return the mouse as Jude has mentioned in a recent post. Will update with info.


Weird. Guess I'll have to wait for proper 2nd edition packaging as well. Just sent email to maxgaming about the problems I'm having.
I'm hopeful that it won't take too long.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> Weird. Guess I'll have to wait for proper 2nd edition packaging as well. Just sent email to maxgaming about the problems I'm having.
> I'm hopeful that it won't take too long.


They said they don't have an ETA on that and that ALL of their boxes are first edition boxes with the seal opened. But they did offer to refund me the money I spend on shipping the defective piece back so at least that's good. I'm also waiting on them to get stock of proper 2nd editions before completing the RMA process. If it doesn't come in stock in a month or so, hopefully FM's own RMA system will be in place (Jude said that's coming soon) and they will be able to send me a shipping label and ship products internationally.


----------



## mikeeymike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *notzi*
> 
> Weird. Guess I'll have to wait for proper 2nd edition packaging as well. Just sent email to maxgaming about the problems I'm having.
> I'm hopeful that it won't take too long.


So to get that 2nd edition packaging, do you need to order from amazon ? Because it seems like everyone who got the mouse from maxgaming or pccasegaming have the 1st edition package


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't see why it matters what the packaging is.


----------



## roz133

It's not the packaging itself that matters, it's the fact that the seal is broken indicating that it could possibly be an unsold/returned first edition with just the f/w updation enabled. All pieces sold by esportstore have the seal broken. I see no reason for the seal to be broken if they just reused the boxes from the first edition and everything else was in order.

Edit : would someone want to be the first to open up one of these seal opened first edition boxes and see if the MCU actually has the 1.2.1 number engraved as Jude says?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> It's not the packaging itself that matters, it's the fact that the seal is broken indicating that it could possibly be an unsold/returned first edition with just the f/w updation enabled. All pieces sold by esportstore have the seal broken. I see no reason for the seal to be broken if they just reused the boxes from the first edition and everything else was in order.
> 
> Edit : would someone want to be the first to open up one of these seal opened first edition boxes and see if the MCU actually has the 1.2.1 number engraved as Jude says?


The "2nd edition" label is simply PR speak for "we updated the firmware in our mice." They could have opened up the early batches boxes to apply the firmware update so they wouldn't get RMAs or have the customers use the hack to allow normal firmware updates. There is nothing physically new about the "2nd edition" mouse.

My box doesn't say "2nd edition" and it was opened. I think the mouse has had the firmware updated, but it isn't the latest firmware. I'm not mad that they opened the box to update the firmware -- that's better than me having to go through the issue myself.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The "2nd edition" label is simply PR speak for "we updated the firmware in our mice." They could have opened up the early batches boxes to apply the firmware update so they wouldn't get RMAs or have the customers use the hack to allow normal firmware updates. There is nothing physically new about the "2nd edition" mouse.
> 
> My box doesn't say "2nd edition" and it was opened. I think the mouse has had the firmware updated, but it isn't the latest firmware. I'm not mad that they opened the box to update the firmware -- that's better than me having to go through the issue myself.


I'm not mad they did the firmware update. I'm just taking Jude's word that the 2nd edition has "slightly modified clicker tooling, and encoder tolerance." Coz my left click is muddy and that is the only major thing I hate on my mouse. If I do a replacement and end up with another bad mouse that's going to be another 30 euro in customs. Which is why I wanted the 2nd edition specifically. Though with everything Jude says on here, I don't really know how accurate the statements about the 2nd edition are.

I just wish there'd be more clarity on all of this. Coz FM says they are brand new 2nd editions but the seal being broken just doesn't add up. If they said it was actually 1st editions itself with updated firmware I wouldn't be wondering about any of this I'd just test my luck with a replacement.


----------



## killeraxemannic

So there was something a few pages ago from Jude talking about shaving the plastic that pushes into the m1 switch down to make it a little less sensitive and effectively stop the click slam issue. Has anyone tried that?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> I'm not mad they did the firmware update. I'm just taking Jude's word that the 2nd edition has "slightly modified clicker tooling, and encoder tolerance." Coz my left click is muddy and that is the only major thing I hate on my mouse. If I do a replacement and end up with another bad mouse that's going to be another 30 euro in customs. Which is why I wanted the 2nd edition specifically. Though with everything Jude says on here, I don't really know how accurate the statements about the 2nd edition are.
> 
> I just wish there'd be more clarity on all of this. Coz FM says they are brand new 2nd editions but the seal being broken just doesn't add up. If they said it was actually 1st editions itself with updated firmware I wouldn't be wondering about any of this I'd just test my luck with a replacement.


They claimed improved stuff on their other mice that didn't really appear to be true. People still got similar or worse mice than they had from the earlier batches. Basically within manufacture variance. I wouldn't hold my breath that FM actually makes improvements to their molds or upgrades there components for every batch -- Logitech might be the ones who do that. FM is more like Zowie.

The main buttons on my Scream1 has some pre and over travel. Mouse2 isn't as bad and it is slightly lighter from what I can tell. The buttons are similar to my IntelliMouse Optical, but maybe less travel. Not sure if the pre travel is actually the switch or the mold, I haven't opened the mouse to check. If I didn't pay 85$ for the mouse I wouldn't have a problem opening it and messing with it to find out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> So there was something a few pages ago from Jude talking about shaving the plastic that pushes into the m1 switch down to make it a little less sensitive and effectively stop the click slam issue. Has anyone tried that?


I wouldn't want to add any more pre travel to the buttons just to stop actuating the buttons after a slam. I rather change the switch.


----------



## roz133

I have very minor pre travel. Not an issue ingame. But the clicks not releasing properly affects pistol spamming so much. Cant play tec9 etc at all on full speed there's always a few missing shots in between. It makes me look like a scrub n hurts my ego


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> I have very minor pre travel. Not an issue ingame. But the clicks not releasing properly affects pistol spamming so much. Cant play tec9 etc at all on full speed there's always a few missing shots in between. It makes me look like a scrub n hurts my ego


Maybe if you took the button piece off and put it back on "properly" you could fix that issue. I don't know if FM sells mouse feet for the Scream1 or whether it would be easy to take off the button piece without damaging it.

I reassembled my Zowie mice to slightly improve the buttons.


----------



## roz133

I could. I have spare hyperglides lying around as well. I've adjusted pretravel/overtravel on other mice before. Jude posted earlier that for minor tampering like this they would still honor the warranty if we let support know beforehand that Jude has given permission to mod it. That was for another person who asked and when I asked no reply. No reply to PM either. If I get confirmation of that, I'd go ahead and open up the mouse myself but otherwise I don't really want to void my warranty on a 120 euro mouse.


----------



## favoxhille

Im enjoying the shape of this mouse very much, i wonder what's the difference with the zowie am side by side, i think the s1 is a bit taller at the end, kinda an ambi ec.
The only problem is the cord which make way too much friction just by moving on the pad and as expected gets dirty very easily.. has anyone already tried to change it?? is there any tutorial about how to do it?
Also which are the best mouse feet out there for this mouse ? (since i dont think any company has released the exact feet for the sc1)


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Im enjoying the shape of this mouse very much, i wonder what's the difference with the zowie am side by side, i think the s1 is a bit taller at the end, kinda an ambi ec.
> The only problem is the cord which make way too much friction just by moving on the pad and as expected gets dirty very easily.. has anyone already tried to change it?? is there any tutorial about how to do it?
> Also which are the best mouse feet out there for this mouse ? (since i dont think any company has released the exact feet for the sc1)


I know the hyperglides for g pro works. Not ideal but it works better than expected


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I know the hyperglides for g pro works. Not ideal but it works better than expected


yes i had read the same







...anyone know a good mouse feet for revel?sensei seems not good :S


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Im enjoying the shape of this mouse very much, i wonder what's the difference with the zowie am side by side, i think the s1 is a bit taller at the end, kinda an ambi ec.
> The only problem is the cord which make way too much friction just by moving on the pad and as expected gets dirty very easily.. has anyone already tried to change it?? is there any tutorial about how to do it?
> Also which are the best mouse feet out there for this mouse ? (since i dont think any company has released the exact feet for the sc1)


scream is wider at the front compared to the am. the sides also slant outward from the top with the am making it much harder to lift. the height is also slightly more on the scream. overall an improved shape imo.

you can get the paracord from ceesa, its hands down the best cable to use. talk to Jude before you make the swap and you should retain ur warranty with FM.

the g pro hyperglides as suggested do work fine. i personally pick the intelli hyperglides so that i can stick them on any mouse. i personally prefer the feel of the smaller feet as well


----------



## samxkim

Which hyperglides work for the Scream One? The shape is great, but the only thing that really annoys me is the scratching from the really thin mouse feet.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> scream is wider at the front compared to the am. the sides also slant outward from the top with the am making it much harder to lift. the height is also slightly more on the scream. overall an improved shape imo.


I don't like how the front flares out and the back feels small (like the G403). I also don't like how thin it gets before the mouse flares out, it's not horrible, but it can have been more comfortable for me if it was 1-2mm thicker where my tip of my small finger rests. The mouse could be 1-3mm shorter in height, or elongated, so the my palm wouldn't feel like it lacks as much as contact as I like/need. The side buttons are too far forward for the size of the mouse if you like to have your palm resting on the pad. The wheel doesn't need to be that wide. The main buttons could have less of a groove and dip. Instead of making the main button piece circle to meet the line of the side buttons they could have simply made it straight so you can get more area to press on the buttons with your knuckle.


----------



## kiz3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samxkim*
> 
> Which hyperglides work for the Scream One? The shape is great, but the only thing that really annoys me is the scratching from the really thin mouse feet.


G Pro or Intellimouse as stated above.


----------



## kiz3r

Rocket Jump Ninja has just done a review of the second edition. Seems he doesn't have the same click actuation on tapping issue with his S1. Well, he does but it's not as sensitive to it anyway


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiz3r*
> 
> Rocket Jump Ninja has just done a review of the second edition. Seems he doesn't have the same click actuation on tapping issue with his S1. Well, he does but it's not as sensitive to it anyway


After watching more of his recent videos I no long have trust in his content/opinion. Now that he is getting a bunch of mice sent to him it appears he has essentially become just another "corporate reviewer." I requested a review sample from FinalMouse for the Scream1, I didn't get an answer. RJN easily gets stuff even though he is located in "convict town." I know RJN has marketing value so companies will send him stuff, but this doesn't produce trust and videos don't communicate in both directions.

RJN reminds me of that Dan M. guy who does "pros are cheating" videos for money. There are pros that cheated, there are pros who will try again. Dan is using that to get money, not to bring attention and clean the scene.

I am returning the Sceam1 in about a week. I might do a written review on this forum if I put in enough hours with the mouse. Right now I have gotten used to the shape and the glide, thus I am not missing shots like I was initially.


----------



## Bucake

shocker


----------



## fakeusername

The irony of the situation is that Finalmouse does not ship to Australia...


----------



## atarii

@jude

will we ever see a profile with reduced lod?


----------



## muso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> *The "2nd edition" label is simply PR speak for "we updated the firmware in our mice."* They could have opened up the early batches boxes to apply the firmware update so they wouldn't get RMAs or have the customers use the hack to allow normal firmware updates. There is nothing physically new about the "2nd edition" mouse.
> 
> My box doesn't say "2nd edition" and it was opened. I think the mouse has had the firmware updated, but it isn't the latest firmware. I'm not mad that they opened the box to update the firmware -- that's better than me having to go through the issue myself.


See you that but they've specifically stated that second editions are physically different and for example are a different shade of blue slightly. Thats why there's concern about boxes being opened. Because we dont know if they're updated first editions or real second editions.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I use PTFE tape to reduce wear on mouse feet. This is how the FM has been wearing out.


----------



## Bucake

damn, it looks so cheap. the logo looks alright, too bad they chose such a bad blue. still wanna try the shape :-/ never gonna happen though


----------



## killeraxemannic

Anyone have a mousepad recommendation for the Scream One? Maybe Jude? What mousepad did you guys use for tuning and testing? I have 3 pads currently but none of them are ideal. I have the Glorious XXXL pad for my whole desk but the mouse area has sort of been worn out as I have had it for quite a long time so I have switched to putting a pad on top of it. I have a regular small QCK which seems ok but is too small, I have the Razer Goliathus Speed which I am currently using but it is hideous and tacky. Basically I feel like I need to buy something or just deal with the hideousness of the Goliathus speed. I already have the XXXL Master race pad on my desk so I would be putting whatever I buy on top of that. I was thinking my contenders would be the QCK+, The Zowie GS-R, the Razer Gigantus, or the Artisan Hayate (MID L). Seems like the QCK+ has more control and less glide than the others and im not sure if I like that however that might be something I just have to get used to so I don't want to count it out. GS-R is used by a lot of pros so I would assume it's pretty decent although one youtube reviewer said that it has a low surface accuracy according to Minox mouse software surface testing. Not sure if that means anything or not. The Gigantus is well reviewed by some but I read form posts from people saying it gave them inconsistent tracking, and finally the Hayate doesn't seem to have much info anywhere except one guy on youtube who says it is the best out of all he has tested. So I guess all of them have their pros and cons. Out of the 3 I have it does seem like I aim with the Goliathus Speed the best, Then the Glorius, then the QCK.


----------



## Poodle

If that mouse feet scratching thing is so obvious, why didn't they notice it when making the mouse. Don't they test them like a ton. Especially if it's about competitive product intended for "esports". I don't get it. How is it possible to make such a mistake. Amazing.


----------



## mikeeymike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Anyone have a mousepad recommendation for the Scream One? Maybe Jude? What mousepad did you guys use for tuning and testing? I have 3 pads currently but none of them are ideal. I have the Glorious XXXL pad for my whole desk but the mouse area has sort of been worn out as I have had it for quite a long time so I have switched to putting a pad on top of it. I have a regular small QCK which seems ok but is too small, I have the Razer Goliathus Speed which I am currently using but it is hideous and tacky. Basically I feel like I need to buy something or just deal with the hideousness of the Goliathus speed. I already have the XXXL Master race pad on my desk so I would be putting whatever I buy on top of that. I was thinking my contenders would be the QCK+, The Zowie GS-R, the Razer Gigantus, or the Artisan Hayate (MID L). Seems like the QCK+ has more control and less glide than the others and im not sure if I like that however that might be something I just have to get used to so I don't want to count it out. GS-R is used by a lot of pros so I would assume it's pretty decent although one youtube reviewer said that it has a low surface accuracy according to Minox mouse software surface testing. Not sure if that means anything or not. The Gigantus is well reviewed by some but I read form posts from people saying it gave them inconsistent tracking, and finally the Hayate doesn't seem to have much info anywhere except one guy on youtube who says it is the best out of all he has tested. So I guess all of them have their pros and cons. Out of the 3 I have it does seem like I aim with the Goliathus Speed the best, Then the Glorius, then the QCK.


I have the QCK Heavy and it's perfect for this mouse.


----------



## nsdjoe

Just got my Scream One (allegedly) 2nd Edition. It had the problem with scrolling down quickly, so I updated the firmware and it's fixed. Did I get an actual 2nd edition or 1st?

Other than that it's mostly great. Clicks are rather loud and metallic sounding but they feel fine. No feet scratching.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> If that mouse feet scratching thing is so obvious, why didn't they notice it when making the mouse. Don't they test them like a ton. Especially if it's about competitive product intended for "esports". I don't get it. How is it possible to make such a mistake. Amazing.


I think it simply down to the way they try to round off the edges of the feet or it might be the blade like shape of the feet. More likely the former because the Revel doesn't feel that good either.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

new firmware is released on website.

-Fixes sleep bug. The issue was the mouse was sending phantom button reports every 250ms. Simple fix just took us a while to find it.


----------



## arcrox

HALLELUJAH! I can keep this damn mouse plugged in now. Thanks for the update!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nsdjoe*
> 
> Just got my Scream One (allegedly) 2nd Edition. It had the problem with scrolling down quickly, so I updated the firmware and it's fixed. Did I get an actual 2nd edition or 1st?
> 
> Other than that it's mostly great. Clicks are rather loud and metallic sounding but they feel fine. No feet scratching.


You either got an "actual" second edition or a first edition with the firmware updated.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> new firmware is released on website.
> 
> -Fixes sleep bug. The issue was the mouse was sending phantom button reports every 250ms. Simple fix just took us a while to find it.


When having only the Revel plugged in the monitor will go into rest mode, the computer will go to sleep and the LED of the mouse turns off. Yet when I press the button the computer will wake from sleep mode.

The Scream1's LEDs stays on and when I press the button the computer doesn't wake. Will there be another firmware update to change this?


----------



## popups

I am not completely used to the buttons yet and I am not at optimal condition. After a few runs I am seeing a trend of what I can do with this mouse in terms of reaction times. I can get a lot of 140-150ms times. Obviously, I start losing focus and blinking, therefore my times creep up to the 150-160 range. I can say the times are comparable to what I can do with the Logitech G303 or Pro. I can put down faster than 141ms times if I try hard, I probably could get runs in the 130-140ms range if I mod the switch and reduce the travel of the buttons, but I am not really in the mood

*FinalMouse Scream One*

*Logitech G303*

*Mionix Avior 7000*


----------



## Aventadoor

How do I check firmware version tho?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> How do I check firmware version tho?


There really is no reason to, just install the latest one.


----------



## Aventadoor

No reason to?
Ofc there is a reason.
Maybe id like to be sure I have correct firmware and the firmware update went correctly?
Jesus christ... Do you post just to post?


----------



## killeraxemannic

I was actually hoping their firmware update tool would tell you what the current firmware version was and what it was going to be updated to when you run it but it does not. That would be a really easy change for FM to make though.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I was actually hoping their firmware update tool would tell you what the current firmware version was and what it was going to be updated to when you run it but it does not. That would be a really easy change for FM to make though.


Maybe they do NOT even know how to make it within their firmware update







?

Don't rely on these guys to actually provide something of merit here, just accept you have lost money on a product that they will provide next to no support.

Welcome to small time operators.......


----------



## favoxhille

Are you sure the mouse wheel up bug is fixable through firmware?? like it sounds more of an issue hardware related... although it is present in my unit and occurs quite often, it doesnt cause me too much problems simply not binding anything on that key tho id obviously prefer having it working properly


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Maybe they do NOT even know how to make it within their firmware update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Don't rely on these guys to actually provide something of merit here, just accept you have lost money on a product that they will provide next to no support.
> 
> Welcome to small time operators.......


this guy gets it


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Are you sure the mouse wheel up bug is fixable through firmware?? like it sounds more of an issue hardware related... although it is present in my unit and occurs quite often, it doesnt cause me too much problems simply not binding anything on that key tho id obviously prefer having it working properly


It has been fixed for a while now, flash to the latest one and see for yourself. I tested it and its fine on my end, never affected me in any games.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Maybe they do NOT even know how to make it within their firmware update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Don't rely on these guys to actually provide something of merit here, just accept you have lost money on a product that they will provide next to no support.
> 
> Welcome to small time operators.......


At least they have been trying to fix things with a bunch of updates. Zowie offers you a new mouse (be it a RMA or a new model to buy).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Are you sure the mouse wheel up bug is fixable through firmware?? like it sounds more of an issue hardware related... although it is present in my unit and occurs quite often, it doesnt cause me too much problems simply not binding anything on that key tho id obviously prefer having it working properly


I updated to the latest firmware on their site. The scroll wheel (from what I can tell using it yesterday) no longer scrolls the other direction when you flick the wheel.


----------



## smcelroy86

I ordered the Second Edition from Amazon and have had it for about a week. Overall very pleased with the performance, small bugs include difference between m1 and m2 click, mediocre glide, and stiff cable. Paracord and Tiger Gaming G Pro mouse feet fixed two of the issues and I can deal with the m1 / m2 difference. If Finalmouse can iron out the quality control issues and make a few small changes I think this mouse will be at the top of the field.

Just wish they made one with a true ergo shape like the Intellimouse 3.0 for my 21.5cm hands..


----------



## AkumaAiGhT

Hey,

I ordered a ScreaM1 days ago, reveived it and I am pretty happy with it. I reveived a 2nd edition one and tought that the "slam tap" being fixed. But when I swipe back to the center of my mousepad and slam a little it not only actuate mouse 1 but both M1 and M3 (scoll button), I know M1 isn't really an issue be cause of the way the mice is designed, but both M1 and M3? It make my M3 unusable because i can't bind anything on it. I already sent an email but they didn't answered. I wonder if you know where that comes from and if you can figure out a way to fix that.

Thanks.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AkumaAiGhT*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> I ordered a ScreaM1 days ago, reveived it and I am pretty happy with it. I reveived a 2nd edition one and tought that the "slam tap" being fixed. But when I swipe back to the center of my mousepad and slam a little it not only actuate mouse 1 but both M1 and M3 (scoll button), I know M1 isn't really an issue be cause of the way the mice is designed, but both M1 and M3? It make my M3 unusable because i can't bind anything on it. I already sent an email but they didn't answered. I wonder if you know where that comes from and if you can figure out a way to fix that.
> 
> Thanks.


The "slam tap" is a drawback with the design of the mouse, so isn't any different with 2nd edition. I haven't heard about the scroll button activating, so something could be wrong with your mouse... or maybe nobody has it bound and just haven't been noticing it.


----------



## kevinzone

i have a scroll rattle. so if i change my mouse feet , is my warranty invalid? i just got my mouse today and im enjoying it other than the glide and rattle ):


----------



## Ino.

I got the Scream One now, probably going to stream with it a bit.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I got the Scream One now, probably going to stream with it a bit.


The Scream One reminds me of the IntelliMouse Optical, but smaller. The main buttons' actuation feels similar too, except my IntelliMouse has less travel and my Scream One has a noticeable gap between the switch and the mouse 1 button.


----------



## Ino.

Some late night ramblings also called a review. First time trying to do it in this way, could probably be condensed somehow for the future.


----------



## hammelgammler

Does someone know how to disassemble the mouse? I already got the two screws under the bottom feet, but I don't know how to proceed. :/


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Does someone know how to disassemble the mouse? I already got the two screws under the bottom feet, but I don't know how to proceed. :/


That's it. The mouse has a sort of dove tail plastic joint at the front that you unhinge and the mouse should come apart.


----------



## smcelroy86

Ok it's been less than a week with the Scream One Second Edition and the left click is broke! tsk tsk


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Does someone know how to disassemble the mouse? I already got the two screws under the bottom feet, but I don't know how to proceed. :/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> That's it. The mouse has a sort of dove tail plastic joint at the front that you unhinge and the mouse should come apart.


Like said already, just screws under the back feet. Then lift the back and pull away from the cable side lightly, it will come free.


----------



## MFlow

Good review!


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some late night ramblings also called a review. First time trying to do it in this way, could probably be condensed somehow for the future.


Good review!


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Good review!


----------



## killeraxemannic

If anyone is interested the Scream One is on sale on Amazon for $69.99 right now so $10 bucks off. Not sure how long it will be on sale for but I bought mine a week ago for $79.99


----------



## roz133

That's probably a permanent price drop. Jude did say that with more volume coming in prices would be dropping soon.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Last issue I have with my mouse is that the LED stays on when my computer is off. Is there a fix or a firmware update planned for resolving that? Seems like all of the other issues have now been resolved except the click slam which is a design thing not a firmware thing.


----------



## MegaTheJohny

I have been using this mouse for while, and I can tell you that mouse shape is amazing. I have around 15-20 top mouse, and this one has best shape for my hand period. (19.5-20cm). I don't have any slam activation issues.

My only problem is mouse feet scratching my mouse pad quite a lot (especially if I move my mouse "down").

@FinalmouseJude can you guys pay attention a bit more on mouse feet ? Would be rly cool if you guys can fix this problem in the next version of the mouse.

I am actually thinking to replace mouse feet with Logitech G pro feet, but I am not sure how to do this? is it hard ?


----------



## MegaTheJohny

btw the closest shape/weight to Final Mouse S1 is Zowie FK1+.
If someone want me to post pics of those 2 mouses near each other, I can do it, so you guys can see how similar those mouses looks like.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MegaTheJohny*
> 
> I have been using this mouse for while, and I can tell you that mouse shape is amazing. I have around 15-20 top mouse, and this one has best shape for my hand period. (19.5-20cm). I don't have any slam activation issues.
> 
> My only problem is mouse feet scratching my mouse pad quite a lot (especially if I move my mouse "down").
> 
> @FinalmouseJude can you guys pay attention a bit more on mouse feet ? Would be rly cool if you guys can fix this problem in the next version of the mouse.
> 
> I am actually thinking to replace mouse feet with Logitech G pro feet, but I am not sure how to do this? is it hard ?


I've had the same problem on more than one unit. And yes, the g pro feet fit very well on it. I think I've posted pictures in the thread of them put on.

Improved the glide a lot !


----------



## BlazeGaming

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MegaTheJohny*
> 
> btw the closest shape/weight to Final Mouse S1 is Zowie FK1+.
> If someone want me to post pics of those 2 mouses near each other, I can do it, so you guys can see how similar those mouses looks like.


Please do, I also know that FK1+ is similar in shape with DM1 Pro / Sensei / Revel. So I might go for DM1 PRO S which is 50% of Scream One's price with same sensor and similar shape. Also better coating for my hands.


----------



## MegaTheJohny

I have revel too, so I will do picture for all 3


----------



## DRiMR

Scream is using several months "new" finalmouse. It is classic ergo with red painting and 3360 sensor (button response is improve too). In fact, scream dislikes ambi shape mice.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlazeGaming*
> 
> Please do, I also know that FK1+ is similar in shape with DM1 Pro / Sensei / Revel. So I might go for DM1 PRO S which is 50% of Scream One's price with same sensor and similar shape. Also better coating for my hands.


DM1 and revel which are very similar to the sensei shape have the hump slightly towards the back (nothing that can get too uncomfortable like za,rival 100 etc but still not quit comfortable imo as the fk,sc1)
also the fk1+ looks a bit longer and is definitely shorter than the sc1
id love zowie to make something like an ambi ec series


----------



## shaiaz

Just tried to update the firmware on my s1 v1 and it looks like it failed even after saying it did it !! Broke all my usb ports the first time so I had to reboot and then the next time I tried it said it was succesful but I still have the scroll bug :/


----------



## favoxhille

Anyway i wonder why final mouse didnt make a ergo mouse with the scream promotion bs since he obviously preferred the ergo type of mice


----------



## daniel0731ex

Anyway i wonder why final mouse didnt make a functional mouse.


----------



## killeraxemannic

I have the Nixus Revel and the shape is ambi yes but no where near as nice as the Scream One. Even though they are physically similar sizes the Scream One is better for medium to large hands and the Revel is for Medium to small hands.


----------



## MegaTheJohny

I agree with post above...since I have tried all those mouses.

Here is pictures:
(Fk1+ and Scream One are best used for medium large while Revel and Fk1 for medium small)

Fk1+ is a bit wider than scream one. (see pictures below)


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MegaTheJohny*
> 
> I agree with post above...since I have tried all those mouses.
> 
> Here is pictures:
> (Fk1+ and Scream One are best used for medium large while Revel and Fk1 for medium small)
> 
> Fk1+ is a bit wider than scream one. (see pictures below)


These are great and actually tell me a lot about what I wanted to know. One of the things I like most about the Scream One is the button groves and it doesn't appear the FK1+ has that.


----------



## MegaTheJohny

Glad u like it. I have all top mouses, so if u want me to compare it with other models, let me know


----------



## favoxhille

im not a fan of the button grooves but at least they are not too intrusive in the sc1, a thing that id prefer in the fk manner was the buttons not extending too much with that sort of /\ ending shape
something like this


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> im not a fan of the button grooves but at least they are not too intrusive in the sc1, a thing that id prefer in the fk manner was the buttons not extending too much with that sort of /\ ending shape


What's wrong with that? Doesn't that give you more length without more weight?


----------



## favoxhille

just a personal preference, maybe due to the fact that i prefer shorter mice in length like the ec2 but im more comfortable with the width and ambi shape of the s1


----------



## Venrar

It's almost surreal using a 3336 mouse with a comfortable shape.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> It's almost surreal using a 3336 mouse with a comfortable shape.


Yeah I can get past all of the other issues with the mouse because of the shape. There are a lot of people still bashing it but there are only 2 real standing issues that I know of right now... The light stays on when the computer is off, and the click slam thing. All of the other issues have been fixed via firmware updates as far as I know. Neither of the current standing issues are enough for me to not use the mouse. The shape, weight, coating, responsiveness and clicks are perfect.


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Yeah I can get past all of the other issues with the mouse because of the shape. There are a lot of people still bashing it but there are only 2 real standing issues that I know of right now... The light stays on when the computer is off, and the click slam thing. All of the other issues have been fixed via firmware updates as far as I know. Neither of the current standing issues are enough for me to not use the mouse. The shape, weight, coating, responsiveness and clicks are perfect.


I'll take a niggling flaw over an awkward shape any day. I was getting horrible wrist and pinky pain while I was using the G-Pro. I can't see the click-slam thing ever affecting me during gameplay, but I did have to remove and plug the mouse in after my first boot to get the cursor to move. As long as that's not a recurring issue, I can see this being my main mouse for the foreseeable future.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> I'll take a niggling flaw over an awkward shape any day. I was getting horrible wrist and pinky pain while I was using the G-Pro. I can't see the click-slam thing ever affecting me during gameplay, but I did have to remove and plug the mouse in after my first boot to get the cursor to move. As long as that's not a recurring issue, I can see this being my main mouse for the foreseeable future.


I was activating the click slam every so often but it only took me a week or so to correct my technique which probably wasn't good for the mouse anyways. I've only had the cursor stop once and it wasn't in game


----------



## shaiaz

I'd love it if they fixed the mushy clicks because it really is a deal breaker for me


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> I'd love it if they fixed the mushy clicks because it really is a deal breaker for me


Wonder if you got a bad one? My clicks are great. I have quite a few mice that people have complained about the clicks on and I haven't had an issue with them though so maybe I'm just not picky about clicks.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Wonder if you got a bad one? My clicks are great. I have quite a few mice that people have complained about the clicks on and I haven't had an issue with them though so maybe I'm just not picky about clicks.


My unit has a fine mouse2, mouse1 has a gap between the switch and the button piece. The switches are fine.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Wonder if you got a bad one? My clicks are great. I have quite a few mice that people have complained about the clicks on and I haven't had an issue with them though so maybe I'm just not picky about clicks.


well they all have this mushy feeling and I'm starting to suspect it's the design because it has been a thing on all of my units :/ They're fine for a week or so but then they start going mushy


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> well they all have this mushy feeling and I'm starting to suspect it's the design because it has been a thing on all of my units :/ They're fine for a week or so but then they start going mushy


I've had mine for 3 weeks and haven't noticed any changes yet but if I do I will let you guys know


----------



## Crazy9000

I bought my S1 when they first came out on Amazon, and everything seems fine now that the firmware updates have solved the silly launch issues. I leave my PC on 24/7 so the mouse LED is on anyways.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I bought my S1 when they first came out on Amazon, and everything seems fine now that the firmware updates have solved the silly launch issues. I leave my PC on 24/7 so the mouse LED is on anyways.


did the firmware fix the scroll bug for you ? It didn't fix it for me :/


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> did the firmware fix the scroll bug for you ? It didn't fix it for me :/


Fixed it for me. Your scroll might have some other defect then, consider an RMA.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Fixed it for me. Your scroll might have some other defect then, consider an RMA.


Did it already but for another reason. I swapped the skatez on it and I prefer it over the second edition


----------



## NovaGOD

M1 is loose in mine, when touch it even very lightly it makes a noise as if there is a gap between the switch and the button, M2 is fine. Anyone else experiencing the same? It's not a deal breaker and it doesnt affect me while gaming but it's kinda annoying.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Did it already but for another reason. I swapped the skatez on it and I prefer it over the second edition


After the firmware update for the scroll wheel, I started getting phantom scrolls occurring more frequently. Pretty much happened every other game. Probably more of an issue with the encoder having super light notches.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> M1 is loose in mine, when touch it even very lightly it makes a noise as if there is a gap between the switch and the button, M2 is fine. Anyone else experiencing the same? It's not a deal breaker and it doesnt affect me while gaming but it's kinda annoying.


Yea, I have the opposite of you - M2 has a slight gap between the button and switch.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> M1 is loose in mine, when touch it even very lightly it makes a noise as if there is a gap between the switch and the button, M2 is fine. Anyone else experiencing the same? It's not a deal breaker and it doesnt affect me while gaming but it's kinda annoying.


I think it's fairly normal. Its part of the design and also part of why there is the click slam issue. The mouse buttons fully float so there is nothing to keep them from rattling around a tiny bit. download the whitepaper on their website and look at the exploded view to get a better understanding of the way it's designed.


----------



## arcrox

I was watching the OGN APEX Overwatch league and noticed Arhan from Afreeca Freecs Blue uses an S1


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I was watching the OGN APEX Overwatch league and noticed Arhan from Afreeca Freecs Blue uses an S1


Maybe that's why he's been playing bad recently


----------



## ncck

Is he using a qck heavy upside down?


----------



## daniel0731ex

He seems to be using the Logitech G Pro.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> I was watching the OGN APEX Overwatch league and noticed Arhan from Afreeca Freecs Blue uses an S1


´

Few more that uses the FM in Apex.
Also not the best advertisement since Arhan have been performing bad recently


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Is he using a qck heavy upside down?


G-SR

QCK Heavy is the most common pad from the Korean teams however in Apex.


----------



## Aventadoor

I have been performing very bad myself, latly.
So I guess I have to blame the S1.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I have been performing very bad myself, latly.
> So I guess I have to blame the S1.


It is always nice to have something to blame bro


----------



## MegaTheJohny

This might sound stupid, but do you guys feel that S1 is too light ? For some reason I like it to be a bit heavier, like 100g ? Cuz I do aim better with 100g mouses, just can't feel S1, even tho shape is so awesome


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> M1 is loose in mine, when touch it even very lightly it makes a noise as if there is a gap between the switch and the button, M2 is fine. Anyone else experiencing the same? It's not a deal breaker and it doesnt affect me while gaming but it's kinda annoying.


Mine is like that too.

I mention it in my post.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MegaTheJohny*
> 
> This might sound stupid, but do you guys feel that S1 is too light ? For some reason I like it to be a bit heavier, like 100g ? Cuz I do aim better with 100g mouses, just can't feel S1, even tho shape is so awesome


I like to use a mouse that is no more than 85g.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Maybe that's why he's been playing bad recently


A change of shape can really affect your performance.


----------



## Venrar

Anyone else have this bug: when my PC loses power, and I boot the computer up after that, the scream one doesn't work until I unplug/re-plug it in. But if I shutdown/reboot the PC without switching the powerbar off everything works fine.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> Anyone else have this bug: when my PC loses power, and I boot the computer up after that, the scream one doesn't work until I unplug/re-plug it in. But if I shutdown/reboot the PC without switching the powerbar off everything works fine.


Someone has mentioned that in the last few pages of this thread and I mention it in my thread about the Scream One.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The latest firmware appears to have fixed the debounce and scroll issues. I can achieve slightly faster reaction times than a Logitech and bunny hopping feels much easier than a Zowie.
> 
> *On the latest firmware: when the computer goes to sleep the LEDs stay on, I can't get the computer to wake by pressing the buttons or moving the mouse and it appears sometimes the mouse/sensor doesn't respond when I plug it in the first time.*


----------



## Jonagold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some late night ramblings also called a review. First time trying to do it in this way, could probably be condensed somehow for the future.


Your movement in "angle rotation/acceleration" -test is not accurate because your movement is not linear causing your mouse to travel different distance when goin one direction than when reversing the movenent back to point 0.


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> After the firmware update for the scroll wheel, I started getting phantom scrolls occurring more frequently. Pretty much happened every other game. Probably more of an issue with the encoder having super light notches.
> Yea, I have the opposite of you - M2 has a slight gap between the button and switch.


I'm getting the same thing -- though very infrequently. So it's safe to say ordering a replacement wouldn't fix it?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Is he using a qck heavy upside down?


That's a G-SR
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonagold*
> 
> Your movement in "angle rotation/acceleration" -test is not accurate because your movement is not linear causing your mouse to travel different distance when goin one direction than when reversing the movenent back to point 0.


I know, however trying to keep the mouse exactly on the x-axis gave me very weird results in the past. With this method and me doing it the same with every mouse I at least have some kind of comparison value between different mice.
It would be optimal to have a test bench that limits movement to one axis, but I don't have time for that.


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Mine is like that too.
> 
> I mention it in my post.


So i guess it's a "feature" then,







nice review btw.


----------



## daniel0731ex

LUL

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/60en6x/massive_throw_on_hollywood_overwatch_monthly/


----------



## wareya

"Works here, maybe they're just bad :^)" - finalmouse apologists


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> LUL
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/60en6x/massive_throw_on_hollywood_overwatch_monthly/


Lol I use to play CS with that dude didn't know he play ow now

That was a crucial frag to miss.. anyway I told you so... I've had it happen in game in cs and it got me killed because I fired after doing a 180 and gave up my position. Mouse is deadly for low sensitivity users


----------



## Argowashi

But Rocketjumpwhatever said that issue never happens in actual gameplay and he's a god at Quake or so he says.


----------



## Ino.

For what it's worth my S1 didn't slam click unless bashing the mouse down. But at that force I think any mouse with separate buttons would actuate.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Not my G Pro. Loaded or unloaded.


----------



## c0dy

Yeah my G303 didn't either. Interested to see how this will be played down by FM







Maybe even ignored or another "working as intended"?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Not my G Pro. Loaded or unloaded.


I mean with the force I used I could have also triggered the G Pro. The beta model of the S1 I had triggered on normal resets, so that was really bad.


----------



## sjzorilla

so if anyone wanted a near exact clone with a less rounded back for $15 with a 3320 to test the shape before splashing $85 on the scream one...

can confirm, they feel super similar (except the motospeed v30 is heavier and you have to take a metal weight out







), but the shapes are really similar so if you just wanted to try the shape out, this exists


----------



## Argowashi

So the Scream One is also a generic Motospeed OEM shell just like all the other Finalmouse mice?


----------



## NovaGOD

To be fair i play low sens [email protected] and never happened to me, i have to slam the mouse really hard on the mousepad to get the buttons to actuate.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> To be fair i play low sens [email protected] and never happened to me, i have to slam the mouse really hard on the mousepad to get the buttons to actuate.


It depends entirely on the situation and even the mouse pad - if someone is using a hard pad or a more 'firm' cloth pad it can cause it to happen easier.. or maybe their mouse button is more sensitive just out of bad luck. I know users keep saying 'oh it rarely happens to me' and this and that.. sure I can say the same thing but I cannot say that it hasn't happened to me in real matches and gotten me killed. I do hope these mice improve like I've said in the past but for now I can't really use/recommend them anymore until they prove themselves

Edit:

@Nova - post below

You can if you want to but it's not necessary we already know the problem exists and how to reproduce it








Quote:


> I agree, ymmv ofc depending on the situation, i'm using a 5mm soft pad(g-sr) if that helps, i can try some 3mm mousepads and hardpads to check if it's easier to make the buttons actuate.


----------



## NovaGOD

I agree, ymmv ofc depending on the situation, i'm using a 5mm soft pad(g-sr) if that helps, i can try some 3mm mousepads and hardpads to check if it's easier to make the buttons actuate.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



lol


----------



## Poodle

Do other Finalmouse mice like ergo have that same button problem?


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> 
> 
> so if anyone wanted a near exact clone with a less rounded back for $15 with a 3320 to test the shape before splashing $85 on the scream one...
> 
> can confirm, they feel super similar (except the motospeed v30 is heavier and you have to take a metal weight out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but the shapes are really similar so if you just wanted to try the shape out, this exists


I have the motospeed v30 mouse about 1 week in red version and this mouse is really good (18 USD? are you kidding me?). The red coating is awesome and so comfortable. The mouse with the weight is really heavy. If you want remove metal weight you have to remove feets, but they are solid, so they probably stay undamaged. Motospeed v30 (red version) using blue omron microswitches (50M). Click latency is same like steelseries sensei raw. It has the same cable like Dreamachines DM1 pro S. You can´t use original software if you have red version but you can set everything by buttons combination (similarly like zowie mice). Sensor is 3320 and performs really great but sensor position is not ideal.
Conclusion: very good mouse!


----------



## Junkrat

NM, someone already posted it!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> But Rocketjumpwhatever said that issue never happens in actual gameplay and he's a god at Quake or so he says.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> For what it's worth my S1 didn't slam click unless bashing the mouse down. But at that force I think any mouse with separate buttons would actuate.


My unit slam clicks, but the slam is more than I am comfortable doing to get it to click. I lift the mouse a lot -- in-game I have not had an issue with slam clicks.

Even if you create a gap between the switch and the button piece, you can still slam the mouse hard enough to actuate the switch. My Scream One's mouse1 has a noticeable gap, it's similar to my Revel. However, the Revel doesn't slam click because the buttons are a single piece and the gap might be twice as large. So it doesn't appear to be the design half pressing the switch on its own. Unless you guys love to have buttons like the Revel...

If you get a mouse the slam clicks too easily you should return it right away. Since the variance on Omrons can be very high, you can get a switch that is extremely easy to press, thus you will easily actuate the switch when "slamming" the mouse.

One of my other mice slam clicked. I don't remember which. Maybe my WMO.


----------



## killeraxemannic

My straight down slam click is pretty tough but if you tap the mouse down while you are moving it side to side it actuates much more easily. Hold the front of the mouse up while leaving the back on the pad and move it left to right with your wrist and then tap it down on the pad half way through and see how hard it is to get it to actuate. Mine is fairly light and can easily be done in game. I have now however corrected my technique and don't do that anymore in game so it doesn't happen really at all for me anymore.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Failmouse Slam One tagline: "They know me as the misclick machine, they talk about my one-slams."


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DRiMR*
> 
> I have the motospeed v30 mouse about 1 week in red version and this mouse is really good (18 USD? are you kidding me?). The red coating is awesome and so comfortable. The mouse with the weight is really heavy. If you want remove metal weight you have to remove feets, but they are solid, so they probably stay undamaged. Motospeed v30 (red version) using blue omron microswitches (50M). Click latency is same like steelseries sensei raw. It has the same cable like Dreamachines DM1 pro S. You can´t use original software if you have red version but you can set everything by buttons combination (similarly like zowie mice). Sensor is 3320 and performs really great but sensor position is not ideal.
> Conclusion: very good mouse!


yeah i have the silver version and i cant use the software, what button combinations are you referring to ?


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> yeah i have the silver version and i cant use the software, what button combinations are you referring to ?


do they have s/w? read a review n it said they have no s/w. would love to give it a try if I could turn off the lights + have 1000hz

anyone can confirm its locked to 500hz?


----------



## favoxhille

It's funny how you get opposite direction of the sc1 with a brick of 170g, at the same time i found silly trying to make a mouse so light as the sc1 as others pointed out i think it would've been way more comfortable with some extra grams.. it just feels weird in the hand gripping a quite hollow mouse (at least if compared to the standard that i find in zowie)


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> do they have s/w? read a review n it said they have no s/w. would love to give it a try if I could turn off the lights + have 1000hz
> 
> anyone can confirm its locked to 500hz?


its got software but i cant use it because i dont have the black version, which is stupid, really. Its at 500 hz out of the box but you can apparently change that in the software

dunno about the lights


----------



## roz133

what? this thing is 170gm?


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> what? this thing is 170gm?


its 98g without the weight, 117 with it


----------



## Venrar

I am not having any trouble adjusting to this mouse. I finished off the Battlegrounds beta in the top 10 on the leaderboards.


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> do they have s/w? read a review n it said they have no s/w. would love to give it a try if I could turn off the lights + have 1000hz
> 
> anyone can confirm its locked to 500hz?


Hi, I turned off the lights, it isnt problem, I am using 500 hz with all my mice and I didnt try activate 1000hz.


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> yeah i have the silver version and i cant use the software, what button combinations are you referring to ?


it is always mouse4 or mouse5 + mouse3 + mwheelup or down


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DRiMR*
> 
> Hi, I turned off the lights, it isnt problem, I am using 500 hz with all my mice and I didnt try activate 1000hz.


thanks, do you know if its possible in the s/w?


----------



## DRiMR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> thanks, do you know if its possible in the s/w?


Yes, you can change it in the software, but you have to buy black version.


----------



## favoxhille

this one also look good in terms of size,shape and sensor performance https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jelly-Comb-Professional-Optical-Buttons-x/dp/B01GC9A9RG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490137449&sr=8-3&keywords=Jelly+Comb+mouse gonna get one to try out


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> this one also look good in terms of size,shape and sensor performance https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jelly-Comb-Professional-Optical-Buttons-x/dp/B01GC9A9RG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490137449&sr=8-3&keywords=Jelly+Comb+mouse gonna get one to try out


is that a newmen gx1 ?


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kicksome*
> 
> is that a newmen gx1 ?


with a better coating, 3050 sensor and worse switches


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> with a better coating, 3050 sensor and worse switches


yeah it also looks smaller in size, have you tried the new newmen? http://www.game-debate.com/mouse/index.php?mo_id=1096&mouse=Newmen%20GX1-R It should like a kinzu in size with a top optical sensor, although its not clear what is in it which make it a bit dodgy


----------



## Fluxify

https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/844966931463573504


----------



## shaiaz

Is it possible to upgrade the first editions firmware ?


----------



## Klopfer

Yes


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> Yes


Use the firmware upgrade that jude posted here a long time ago and it should act as a second edition correct?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Use the firmware upgrade that jude posted here a long time ago and it should act as a second edition correct?


Yep, the slightly complicated first edition firmware update makes the mouse a "second edition", where you install the same updates with the same file as the second edition does.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Yep, the slightly complicated first edition firmware update makes the mouse a "second edition", where you install the same updates with the same file as the second edition does.


Thought I already had done this but I suppose trying it again doens't hurt


----------



## Aventadoor

Latest firmware seem to make the mice feel more 1:1.
I've felt that 336X mice seem to have a slight disconnected feel.
Also, the scroll wheel thing where it does some wierd stuff when u scroll down, has been reduced.
Very positive to this firmware so far.


----------



## shaiaz

Yeah I managed to get mine updated after bricking it twice but it fixed the scroll wheel bug. Good job finalmouse


----------



## Aventadoor

Bricking it?

You just:
1. Unplug
2. Replug + DPI button
3. Unplug
4. Replug
5. Unplug
6. Replug

The windows that pop up blocks the "Intructions" so I understand that many dont understand what to do unless u plug in another mice and check.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Bricking it?
> 
> You just:
> 1. Unplug
> 2. Replug + DPI button
> 3. Unplug
> 4. Replug
> 5. Unplug
> 6. Replug
> 
> The windows that pop up blocks the "Intructions" so I understand that many dont understand what to do unless u plug in another mice and check.


Nah I had erros while doing it. I have no idea why but it had to rewrite the thing and would crash while doing it :/


----------



## Venrar

No https and file not digitally signed. Oh boy. Can we get a hash at least so we know we have the right file?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> No https and file not digitally signed. Oh boy. Can we get a hash at least so we know we have the right file?


Oh no they'll steal our bank accounts. Wait. There is nothing left


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> No https and file not digitally signed. Oh boy. Can we get a hash at least so we know we have the right file?


Thanks for pointing this out. We will get a file hash up for this.


----------



## SmashTV

Did Jude lose posting privileges over at FinalMouse?


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Did Jude lose posting privileges over at FinalMouse?


Yes, he's been banished.

Not really, though.


----------



## roz133

Plz fix the leds not turning off when pc is turned off or on sleep mode.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Plz fix the leds not turning off when pc is turned off or on sleep mode.


That's a BIOS option for you motherboard. It's not the mouse problem


----------



## roz133

I've read that before but none of my other mice have the issue. So what's the deal?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> I've read that before but none of my other mice have the issue. So what's the deal?


If your motherboard is set to power USB devices while your PC is shut off, the Finalmouse LED will stay on. Your other mice probably intentionally turn off, even if they are still getting power.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> If your motherboard is set to power USB devices while your PC is shut off, the Finalmouse LED will stay on. Your other mice probably intentionally turn off, even if they are still getting power.


My PC doesn't power any other devices when it's off or on sleep mode. Just checked with a power bank and my mobile.

edit : the scream 1 cant even wake the pc up from sleep mode even though the leds stay on, i've to use another mouse/keyboard to wake up


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> My PC doesn't power any other devices when it's off or on sleep mode. Just checked with a power bank and my mobile.
> 
> edit : the scream 1 cant even wake the pc up from sleep mode even though the leds stay on, i've to use another mouse/keyboard to wake up


I don't think the S1 has a battery in it, it's getting power from your PC







.


----------



## roz133

ROFL, I get that. I'm just saying if it's just this mouse out of round 50 I've tried on this PC that has the LEDs stay on, maybe it's an individual setting on the mouse (obviously only if you have the bios setting turned on). Also the S1 not being able to wake up the PC has been mentioned before.

I'll just check for the setting n turn it off in bios but I'm sure this will be bothering other people too and they might not even realize its a bios setting that can be turned off. Maybe FM should just turn it off themselves since that's obviously possible as none of my logitech/ss/razer/zowie mice have the issue with the same bios settings.


----------



## unplayed namer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Maybe FM should just turn it off themselves since that's obviously possible as none of my logitech/ss/razer/zowie mice have the issue with the same bios settings.


In case they notice and see it as a problem the fix should roll out in 2019.


----------



## Aventadoor

I've tried everything possible in BIOS etc to get the LED's to turn off.
But with my Gigabyte motherboard, it dident work.
Turning on ErP, etc etc, nothing worked.


----------



## VESPA5

I really wanted to like this mouse. I gave it a shot despite all the stories and figuring that this was a "second edition", I gave it a shot (plus it was marked down to $69.99 on Amazon which is STILL pricey). Pictures are worth a thousand words so here goes.

*Yes! Awesome! First 24 hours using FM Scream One 2nd Edition - YES! Awesome!*


_Then....... Day 2 with the mouse, I started experiencing scroll wheel issues.
_
*Next day: SCROLL WHEEL is loose. Lodges to the right making RMB tougher to actuate. Have to 'click' the mouse wheel back into place. Holding onto M4 or M5 results in M1/M2 not working (ghosting again?) My solution? See below.*


----------



## shaiaz

The LED things has never been an issue for me. Probably just because I don't sleep my pc, on or off


----------



## Aventadoor

I dont sleep my PC either.
I turn it off every night.


----------



## Venrar

Is anyone else still getting random scrolls despite the firmware update?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I really wanted to like this mouse.


almost can't believe it, vesp5 had something bad to say about a mouse..

is the industry truly lost?
is the end nearing?
are mice doomed for extinction?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> Is anyone else still getting random scrolls despite the firmware update?


yup.

Tried updating twice and it still does it







Maybe not as much ? Possibly.


----------



## end0rphine

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I really wanted to like this mouse. I gave it a shot despite all the stories and figuring that this was a "second edition", I gave it a shot (plus it was marked down to $69.99 on Amazon which is STILL pricey). Pictures are worth a thousand words so here goes.
> 
> *Yes! Awesome! First 24 hours using FM Scream One 2nd Edition - YES! Awesome!*
> 
> 
> _Then....... Day 2 with the mouse, I started experiencing scroll wheel issues.
> _
> *Next day: SCROLL WHEEL is loose. Lodges to the right making RMB tougher to actuate. Have to 'click' the mouse wheel back into place. Holding onto M4 or M5 results in M1/M2 not working (ghosting again?) My solution? See below.*






The mouse wheel is very loose on mine (first edition). It's because they use a *very* flimsy plastic to hold the wheel in place on both sides (it has a very high degree of flex).


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> yup.
> 
> Tried updating twice and it still does it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe not as much ? Possibly.


Yep, not as frequently, but still get "accidental" scrolls from time to time


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Yep, not as frequently, but still get "accidental" scrolls from time to time


well I can't even update my mouse it just bricks


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> well I can't even update my mouse it just bricks


Mine updated easily. Didn't take long and I didn't have problems. I updated it on Windows 7.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> well I can't even update my mouse it just bricks


"Bricks" would mean you couldn't use it anymore.

If you have a first edition and are trying to do the original firmware update to turn it into a second edition, you probably just need to use a different USB port. After you do that, you download the second edition firmware updater and use that.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> "Bricks" would mean you couldn't use it anymore.
> 
> If you have a first edition and are trying to do the original firmware update to turn it into a second edition, you probably just need to use a different USB port. After you do that, you download the second edition firmware updater and use that.


Doing it on a second edition and I have tried different USB ports and it doesn't help.

Maybe soft-brick is more correct


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> Doing it on a second edition and I have tried different USB ports and it doesn't help.
> 
> Maybe soft-brick is more correct


That's odd, there isn't too much to mess with on the second edition... just hold down the DPI button while plugging it in, then run the download from website. I would return it if you can, it should just work with maybe trying a different USB port at most.


----------



## Ethso182

The mouse actually performs well according to reviews but there have been issues with the first edition copies. As for the scream signature, it is just a selling point for the mouse itself.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> That's odd, there isn't too much to mess with on the second edition... just hold down the DPI button while plugging it in, then run the download from website. I would return it if you can, it should just work with maybe trying a different USB port at most.


so I get this warning at first when I try to update. http://a.pomf.cat/wizobq.png

then I replug and it says successful and asks me to replug once again and I do it.

Code:



Code:


Caching firmware file...
Checksum valid
Listening for Final Mouse devices in ISP mode...
Plug in your mouse while holding the button below the scroll wheel
UsbStateChangedEvent! E: CRP1 ENABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
UsbStateChangedEvent! E:  () 0 Bytes free of 0 Bytes
UsbStateChangedEvent! E: CRP DISABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
Updating firmware (E:\firmware.bin)
Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive E:.

That's the output of the firmware upgrader tool


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> so I get this warning at first when I try to update. http://a.pomf.cat/wizobq.png
> 
> then I replug and it says successful and asks me to replug once again and I do it.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Caching firmware file...
> Checksum valid
> Listening for Final Mouse devices in ISP mode...
> Plug in your mouse while holding the button below the scroll wheel
> UsbStateChangedEvent! E: CRP1 ENABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
> Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
> UsbStateChangedEvent! E:  () 0 Bytes free of 0 Bytes
> UsbStateChangedEvent! E: CRP DISABLD (NXP LPC1XXX IFLASH USB Device) 0 Bytes free of 40.00 KB
> Found Final Mouse device in bootloader mode
> Updating firmware (E:\firmware.bin)
> Firmware has been updated. Please safely eject USB drive E:.
> 
> That's the output of the firmware upgrader tool


First, have you emailed support about this issue?

Secondly, was that the same output/sequence of events from the first time you went to update it (you mentioned you had done this a few times)?

What happens when you unplug it and plug it back in, per instructions?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> First, have you emailed support about this issue?
> 
> Secondly, was that the same output/sequence of events from the first time you went to update it (you mentioned you had done this a few times)?
> 
> What happens when you unplug it and plug it back in, per instructions?


yes I have emailed support but no answer yet. I've done this a few times yes and I'm following the instructions each time and the same result. Tried different USB ports, rebooting, different PCs.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaiaz*
> 
> yes I have emailed support but no answer yet. I've done this a few times yes and I'm following the instructions each time and the same result. Tried different USB ports, rebooting, different PCs.


What is the end result? You said "soft bricks", but it sounds like you're still using the mouse-- so what happens after you finish that process?


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> What is the end result? You said "soft bricks", but it sounds like you're still using the mouse-- so what happens after you finish that process?


well the LED works, but that's really it. Doesn't track, clicks don't work, scroll don't work


----------



## fakeusername

Bought one from esportstore - https://www.esportstore.com/finalmouse/gaming-mice/scream-one-second-edition-1

Invoice that arrived with it says Second Edition but it says First Edition on the box. So yeah, be wary of buying from this store.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Bought one from esportstore - https://www.esportstore.com/finalmouse/gaming-mice/scream-one-second-edition-1
> 
> Invoice that arrived with it says Second Edition but it says First Edition on the box. So yeah, be wary of buying from this store.


Doesn't really matter because there is no hardware changes. It's simply a firmware update, which isn't even the latest firmware.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Bought one from esportstore - https://www.esportstore.com/finalmouse/gaming-mice/scream-one-second-edition-1
> 
> Invoice that arrived with it says Second Edition but it says First Edition on the box. So yeah, be wary of buying from this store.


That store is good. Finalmouse is dodgy


----------



## megacharacter

Hi - usually just a browser, but I thought about someone with my kind of preferences also looking for reviews or thoughts of people with similar hands.

My hands are 20 - 21 x 10 - 11cm, and my preferred grip is a 1 - 3 - 1 relaxed-ish claw grip. This mouse is probably closest to what I would use as a daily driver clashing with the FK1 and beating out the almost perfect G403. Controversy aside, I seemed to have received a pretty good unit scoring a full _*12 on the QC sticker*_ (Whatever that means) with just a little rattle in LMB and RMB.

My main criticism of the shape is that the thumb grooves are too dipped in - it causes my ring and middle finger to mush together and fight for a spot on RMB and it forces me to modify my grip so that just one finger on RMB which I am not used to at all. I do like how the sides are pretty flat which is a good thing for angling or positioning your thumb freely. A final point - the FK1 does this too, but in intense play the rightmost edge of my palm gets cramped which sucks because I really like this mouse.

The price is weird - there's definitely products that feel like they're way more sturdy and well built than the ScreaM One like Zowies. If you're feeling lucky and rich though and your claw hands aren't wider than 10cm than I'd give this mouse a shot.


----------



## FinalMouse

Today we are releasing firmware version 2.0 of the Scream One with immediate availability.

We have been listening to your feedback and working diligently behind the scenes, testing out a myriad of solutions to the remaining issue on the Scream One Second Edition; the issue of "slam click", whereby a "click" gets registered by the mouse when it is placed back onto the mousepad with some level of force.

While this issue does not occur for the vast majority of our customers during regular game play, it was still reported by some, and we were able to identify a method whereby this can be dramatically decreased or altogether eliminated.

Our button press algorithms have been altered to account for these accidental presses while maintaining our fast click latency and performance. This should remove any clicking issues related to slamming the mouse down or accidental clicks while placing the mouse down with force during game play.

As the OC community is significantly more thorough than most other hardware enthusiast websites, especially when it comes to mice, we wanted to share this with you directly, and hear your feedback as you validate it yourselves.

The latest firmware can be applied via the link on the Finalmouse site.

We greatly appreciate any and all feedback you have for us.


----------



## arcrox

Do you have any technical details on the firmware update? Is there literally zero change to click latency? Or phrased another way, is there any downside to flashing this update if the click-slam is a complete non-issue for me?

BTW, kudos on the new direction FM is taking with better PR, customer service, and communication. Keep it up and eventually your company's reputation will come around.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> Do you have any technical details on the firmware update? Is there literally zero change to click latency? Or phrased another way, is there any downside to flashing this update if the click-slam is a complete non-issue for me?
> 
> BTW, kudos on the new direction FM is taking with better PR, customer service, and communication. Keep it up and eventually your company's reputation will come around.


Our testing showed no negative impact to performance. Even if the slam click issue didn't occur for you, we recommend updating to the latest firmware just in case.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Just tested the firmware update...... Its worse than before. It now activates with a light tap down with no motion where as before I had to be moving the mouse side to side and tap down for it to activate.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Just tested the firmware update...... Its worse than before. It now activates with a light tap down with no motion where as before I had to be moving the mouse side to side and tap down for it to activate.


To clarify, you downloaded the latest updater from our website, installed the firmware successfully, and still have the issue? Can you record/show this? It would be very helpful for support.

This is the first report of the issue not being resolved with the 2.0 firmware (we spent time testing this both internally and externally with select customers via our support team).


----------



## aayman_farzand

Flashed the latest firmware, I could still make it actuate. No problems in game as always.

Maybe you guys didn't face it during testing because your switches are all intact. My S1 1st Edition has been my primary mouse since the day I got it.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Flashed the latest firmware, I could still make it actuate. No problems in game as always.
> 
> Maybe you guys didn't face it during testing because your switches are all intact. My S1 1st Edition has been my primary mouse since the day I got it.


How hard did you have to "slam" for it to actuate? You mention it didn't happen to you in game at all before-- it definitely won't now.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> To clarify, you downloaded the latest updater from our website, installed the firmware successfully, and still have the issue? Can you record/show this? It would be very helpful for support.
> 
> This is the first report of the issue not being resolved with the 2.0 firmware (we spent time testing this both internally and externally with select customers via our support team).


Here is the video. I went on your site today and downloaded the update tool and ran it and it said the update was successful.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Here is the video. I went on your site today and downloaded the update tool and ran it and it said the update was successful.


Thank you for this!

Based on the audio, it sounds like the "slams" are pretty forceful, but it's hard to tell from that alone.

Is that level of force during mouse positional "resets" common for you during actual game play?


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Thank you for this!
> 
> Based on the audio, it sounds like the "slams" are pretty forceful, but it's hard to tell from that alone.
> 
> Is that level of force during mouse positional "resets" common for you during actual game play?


I was worried about that.... It sounds worse than it is just because of the way my phone picks up the audio. the taps I was doing were what I would consider heat of the moment position resets in game. I really don't think its very hard... No harder than dropping the mouse from an inch or so above the pad which I did at the end of the video that activated a few buttons. Its all about the left to right movement though.... If you tap straight down it usually takes a harder tap than if you move side to side and tap as I was doing in the video. Thats what makes it happen because when you are playing and it happens in game it happens when you are moving the mouse and tap.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Just tested the firmware update...... Its worse than before.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

If you downloaded s1firmware2.exe it will nearly eliminate slam clicking. Theoretically you can drop the mouse from a foot high and it won't actuate the majority of the time. Nothing in the code changes could make it "worse". Should be noticeably different if you do direct comparisons.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> If you downloaded s1firmware2.exe it will nearly eliminate slam clicking. Theoretically you can drop the mouse from a foot high and it won't actuate the majority of the time. Nothing in the code changes could make it "worse". Should be noticeably different if you do direct comparisons.


Did you watch my video? I dropped it from less than 2 inches and it clicked.... I definitely used the S1firmware2.exe. I downloaded it from your site this morning.

Around 56 seconds it clicks from me just dropping it on the pad from less than 2 in


----------



## Straifer

+1 to killeraxemannic's post. I pulled the ScreamOne out of my drawer to apply this firmware update and it's now even easier to 'onetap' without even pressing Mouse One. I don't want to just talk badly about the mouse but after every firmware update the mouse has stayed in the drawer for longer periods of time. I will admit the shape and general feel of the mouse is amazing but the actual mouse to game interaction needs some work.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straifer*
> 
> +1 to killeraxemannic's post. I pulled the ScreamOne out of my drawer to apply this firmware update and it's now even easier to 'onetap' without even pressing Mouse One. I don't want to just talk badly about the mouse but after every firmware update the mouse has stayed in the drawer for longer periods of time. I will admit the shape and general feel of the mouse is amazing but the actual mouse to game interaction needs some work.


The adjustments made via the firmware results in LESS clicks being registered, which is why it being "easier to onetap" (via slamming) doesn't align to what changes were actually made. Nearly all other reports back have been very positive thus far.

More feedback from here on OC continues to be valuable.

We also wanted to add for those that are updating the firmware, make sure you follow the updater instructions and receive a success message after the update has been applied. You then unplug the mouse and plug it back in, and the process is complete.


----------



## davidoff2050

Today will arrive mine from Amazon! I can not wait to come,to see how it behaves and perform! Wish me good luck!!


----------



## Straifer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> The adjustments made via the firmware results in LESS clicks being registered, which is why it being "easier to onetap" (via slamming) doesn't align to what changes were actually made. Nearly all other reports back have been very positive thus far.
> 
> More feedback from here on OC continues to be valuable.
> 
> We also wanted to add for those that are updating the firmware, make sure you follow the updater instructions and receive a success message after the update has been applied. You then unplug the mouse and plug it back in, and the process is complete.


Thankyou for responding, sir!

I'd hesitate to use the word slam when I use a flick movement and touch/slam back onto the mousepad. I do understand every interaction is going to be different ofcourse.

I always attempt to flash atleast twice to make sure it has gone through just because of the nature of not wanting to have two mice plugged in while updating. The scroll wheel flash worked fine so I'd hope I'm doing things correctly.

Thankyou for being the face of support along with Jude. I cannot imagine it's a easy task.

p.s. Could we get some 500hz love please?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> How hard did you have to "slam" for it to actuate? You mention it didn't happen to you in game at all before-- it definitely won't now.


My game has always been fine, but you claimed this should fix it but it doesn't. I didn't hit it with full force either, just repeatedly lifted and hit the pad.


----------



## arcrox

The update works as advertised for me. It's still possible to get a slam actuation, but significantly harder to do so.

Your mileage may vary, likely due to manufacturing variances.


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> Here is the video. I went on your site today and downloaded the update tool and ran it and it said the update was successful.


Damn, it couldn't sound more cheap'ish.

I don't know why you all are wasting money on this cheap built chinese mouse.

Sensors from 3050 and up are okay, and you shouldn't change your mouse based on tthe sensor.

I mean, bet I can outaim you all with my g9x.

Also, I can give you a list of 9999 mice with the same shape and better sensor than that $70 overpriced garbage.

Don't give money to companies like this one. You can't fix a design issue with a 'firmware update'. They are straight up lying to your face, and you are okay with it.

Why don't they fix the design issues or at least admit it, instead of lying to all their customers? Money. They are money hungry, hence the $70 price tag. If they admit to having a design issue, then they will have to refund a bunch of mice.

ASK FOR A REFUND.

Refund your mouse to whatever store you bought it from. Stop being so passive about this. They will keep lying.

You want 'the best mouse'? This is how you get it. Meanwhile I'll keep outaiming nerds with my g9x.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> My game has always been fine, but you claimed this should fix it but it doesn't. I didn't hit it with full force either, just repeatedly lifted and hit the pad.


The claim was that it would be dramatically reduced or altogether eliminated during game play, which sounds accurate for your specific situation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcrox*
> 
> The update works as advertised for me. It's still possible to get a slam actuation, but significantly harder to do so.
> 
> Your mileage may vary, likely due to manufacturing variances.


Thank you for your feedback arcrox


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> The claim was that it would be dramatically reduced or altogether eliminated during game play, which sounds accurate for your specific situation.
> Thank you for your feedback arcrox


sleek aren't you, Mr. PR guy, uh?


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> The claim was that it would be dramatically reduced or altogether eliminated during game play, which sounds accurate for your specific situation.
> Thank you for your feedback arcrox
> 
> 
> 
> sleek aren't you, Mr. PR guy, uh?
Click to expand...

It's very funny. What's astounding is that they are attempting to fix the click slam issue with firmware.

Placing the mouse down hard enough causes the weight of the separated LMB/RMB to exert enough force to cause switch actuation.

They are excluding this input from registering plain and simple. I'm surprised that they were able to get the mouse to ignore click-slam without impacting user input. Maybe a user can't perform a switch activation cycle as fast as a click-slam? I don't know, but I'm glad I didn't buy one.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brigand253*
> 
> It's very funny. What's astounding is that they are attempting to fix the click slam issue with firmware.
> 
> Placing the mouse down hard enough causes the weight of the separated LMB/RMB to exert enough force to cause switch actuation.
> 
> They are excluding this input from registering plain and simple. I'm surprised that they were able to get the mouse to ignore click-slam without impacting user input. Maybe a user can't perform a switch activation cycle as fast as a click-slam? I don't know, but I'm glad I didn't buy one.


One of several approaches


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> The claim was that it would be dramatically reduced or altogether eliminated during game play, which sounds accurate for your specific situation.


It honestly doesn't feel like it needs any more work to get it to actuate like it did before the FW. EIther way, it's not a problem for me.

However, I do have one complaint and maybe you guys can try a similar fix. The scroll wheel is getting loose and sometimes activates on its own. In CSGO I use them for nades/flashes and sometimes I've been pulling them out at the wrong time. Maybe you guys can recognize some pattern there and ignore it. Not sure if it's doable, but that's the only thing that's about to make me switch to a different mouse.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> It honestly doesn't feel like it needs any more work to get it to actuate like it did before the FW. EIther way, it's not a problem for me.
> 
> However, I do have one complaint and maybe you guys can try a similar fix. The scroll wheel is getting loose and sometimes activates on its own. In CSGO I use them for nades/flashes and sometimes I've been pulling them out at the wrong time. Maybe you guys can recognize some pattern there and ignore it. Not sure if it's doable, but that's the only thing that's about to make me switch to a different mouse.


Do you have mwheelup or mwheeldown (or both) for scrolling through grenades?


----------



## aayman_farzand

MDown for Flash, MUp for Nades, M3 for Smoke. M3 actuation is not a problem.


----------



## wevv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2p4amicsoI


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wevv*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2p4amicsoI


More finalmemes?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> More finalmemes?


"Bearded man screaming at Americans about planting bombs and buying AK´s" sounds like a decent marketing strategy for the american market.

All jokes aside DJ Khaled is a meme itself, im not sure if he was entirely serious when he told his wife to go get him a drink today.


----------



## Rooslin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Do you have mwheelup or mwheeldown (or both) for scrolling through grenades?


My only issue with this mouse is the scroll activating randomly. I have scroll down as jump and scroll up for nades. After bhoping or cycling my nades sometimes the scroll gets "stuck" and forces me to jump and cycle nades randomly until i scroll and reset it. I've updated to the latest software and it still happens occasionally.

I'm trying to shadow play clips of it happening from now on, and will make a vid of the issue soon.


----------



## Tazzzz

Is the sensor in scream one is slightly off-centered towards the right? Probably like 0.5 or 1 mm?


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> It honestly doesn't feel like it needs any more work to get it to actuate like it did before the FW. EIther way, it's not a problem for me.
> 
> However, I do have one complaint and maybe you guys can try a similar fix. The scroll wheel is getting loose and sometimes activates on its own. In CSGO I use them for nades/flashes and sometimes I've been pulling them out at the wrong time. Maybe you guys can recognize some pattern there and ignore it. Not sure if it's doable, but that's the only thing that's about to make me switch to a different mouse.


this happens to me all the time as well. mwheelup is jump, randomly jumps once in a while, at least once every game.


----------



## Horo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rooslin*
> 
> My only issue with this mouse is the scroll activating randomly. I have scroll down as jump and scroll up for nades. After bhoping or cycling my nades sometimes the scroll gets "stuck" and forces me to jump and cycle nades randomly until i scroll and reset it. I've updated to the latest software and it still happens occasionally.
> 
> I'm trying to shadow play clips of it happening from now on, and will make a vid of the issue soon.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> this happens to me all the time as well. mwheelup is jump, randomly jumps once in a while, at least once every game.


I have the same problem and it makes the mouse unusable in game. I use scroll down to jump and up for next weapon. It automatically activates once every round or two. Is the loose wheel wide spread?


----------



## warhuryeah

Got mine a couple of days ago, tested it without the update and had the slamclick issue.

Updated the firmware and I still have the slamclick issue. The rest of the mouse is pretty good, but not sure how they can justify such a high price for this. Will probably have a review done in a week or so.


----------



## VESPA5

I'm a "don't knock it till you try it" kinda person and after my 2nd copy of the FM Scream 1 2nd Edition (sounds redundant, I know), $70+ for something that had to be re-released in less than a year with updated 'firmware' just didn't feel right. I would've continued using this mouse (flaws and all) if the scrollwheel didn't have the tendency to somehow lodge itself underneath the RMB occasionally. The thing is so light and easy to flick, that it was hard to distance myself from this mouse. That's until I found myself having to press the mousewheel button to 'click' it back into place since it was affecting the RMB so much. What a disaster.

What's sad is that the Nixeus Revel (that is roughly HALF the price of the FM Scream 1) is now my daily driver over this mouse. It's only a few grams heavier than the FM Scream 1 but aside from that, everything else on that mouse is perfect (Revel)

And what a surprise, Amazon usually does this if there is a spike in returns and negative reviews:


----------



## giubox360

Guys I have a question on the Finalmouse Scream One first and "second edition", the second edition is lighter like 81 grams instead of 85 grams or they are the same?
I mean how we can recognize if we have the first or the second edition, after the firmaware is updated? thanks in advance.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giubox360*
> 
> Guys I have a question on the Finalmouse Scream One first and "second edition", the second edition is lighter like 81 grams instead of 85 grams or they are the same?
> I mean how we can recognize if we have the first or the second edition, after the firmaware is updated? thanks in advance.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> *Doesn't really matter because there is no hardware changes*. It's simply a firmware update, which isn't even the latest firmware.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warhuryeah*
> 
> Got mine a couple of days ago, tested it without the update and had the slamclick issue.
> 
> Updated the firmware and I still have the slamclick issue. The rest of the mouse is pretty good, but not sure how they can justify such a high price for this. Will probably have a review done in a week or so.


Slamming the mouse will likely actuate the switch if the switch has a weak spring. A stiffer switch can reduce or eliminate the issue.


----------



## giubox360

yeah the new firmware fix this problem.
I'd like to know if the scream One second edition is lighter. I heard the second edition is 81 grams and not 85 grams like the fist edition.
It's right?


----------



## daniel0731ex

If there's anyone here who has a sacrificial Finalmouse, would you mind experimenting with trimming off this part to see how it affects the slam issue?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giubox360*
> 
> yeah the new firmware fix this problem.
> I'd like to know if the scream One second edition is lighter. I heard the second edition is 81 grams and not 85 grams like the fist edition.
> It's right?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1625601/finalmouse-scream-one-a-users-perspective-by-popups/0_30

There is no physical difference between the "1st edition" and the "2nd edition."

The Tournament Pro is different than the Scream One.


----------



## senileoldman

Why are people still buying this mouse after what I said.

They are straight up lying to your face, and you are okay with it.

And they have the balls to sell you a '2nd version' with updatable firmware to fix a design issue.

They can't fix a design issue with just a firmware. They need to spend the money they are stealing you all with all that marketing bs to fix the issue. But they are money hungry and won't do that. Specially because they would have to refund a ton of mice, if they admitted it.

Don't buy this mouse. They are liars, and are overpricing this mouse with trash quality.

Go buy a mouse from another company, that at least has the decency to not lie to their clients.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Why are people still buying this mouse after what I said.
> 
> They are straight up lying to your face, and you are okay with it.
> 
> And they have the balls to sell you a '2nd version' with updatable firmware to fix a design issue.
> 
> They can't fix a design issue with just a firmware. They need to spend the money they are stealing you all with all that marketing bs to fix the issue. But they are money hungry and won't do that. Specially because they would have to refund a ton of mice, if they admitted it.
> 
> Don't buy this mouse. They are liars, and are overpricing this mouse with trash quality.
> 
> Go buy a mouse from another company, that at least has the decency to not lie to their clients.


What if 1 person could dictate what everyone else bought in this world, that would be quite terrible









Just saying, there is not a single company in the world where close to everyone is happy about it, you will always find people that have had bad experiences etc.
If people want to try it out because they like the shape, weight etc, let them.


----------



## t3ram

I get now the third mouse for free like the the other two


----------



## giubox360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> I get now the third mouse for free like the the other two


how if I can ask?


----------



## giubox360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1625601/finalmouse-scream-one-a-users-perspective-by-popups/0_30
> 
> There is no physical difference between the "1st edition" and the "2nd edition."
> 
> The Tournament Pro is different than the Scream One.


I ask this because all the review says 85 grams for finalmouse 1st edition and 81 grams for the second....are you 100% sure of it?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giubox360*
> 
> I ask this because all the review says 85 grams for finalmouse 1st edition and 81 grams for the second....are you 100% sure of it?


In my review you can see the mouse on the scale.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1625601/lightbox/post/25924806/id/2984850


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> If there's anyone here who has a sacrificial Finalmouse, would you mind experimenting with trimming off this part to see how it affects the slam issue?


I doubt it'll make much difference. I played around changing the switches and had to file the switch contact point for the japanese omrons. The problem have to do with the physics of the buttons when an impact occurs, and the contact doesn't have to make a full actuation to misfire. The best technique I found was putting something soft under the mousepad which decreases the impact and the chance of misfire minimized.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Nah, I'm quite certain it's due to the weight of the clickers.


----------



## gene-z

What's going on with the non-branded versions without "Scream" branding? Are they coming soon?


----------



## giubox360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> In my review you can see the mouse on the scale.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1625601/lightbox/post/25924806/id/2984850


I tried too, and If I take the cable a little up, mine scream one is 81 grams, instead if I left the cable down (out of the weight scale) then mine is 85 grams.....so my doubt it's still:
is the second edition lighter than the first edition or not?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> What's sad is that the Nixeus Revel (that is roughly HALF the price of the FM Scream 1) is now my daily driver over this mouse. It's only a few grams heavier than the FM Scream 1 but aside from that, everything else on that mouse is perfect (Revel)


It's my daily driver too. I can think of plenty of ways to improve the Revel but the thing that stands out is: It's simple and it plain works without hassles and a shape that suits me.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> It's my daily driver too. I can think of plenty of ways to improve the Revel but the thing that stands out is: It's simple and it plain works without hassles and a shape that suits me.


I wish I could get used to the clicks but the sounds just UGHHH


----------



## daniel0731ex

I think it's to somewhat avoid the already-tainted reputation of the Scream One.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giubox360*
> 
> I tried too, and If I take the cable a little up, mine scream one is 81 grams, instead if I left the cable down (out of the weight scale) then mine is 85 grams.....so my doubt it's still:
> is the second edition lighter than the first edition or not?


They are the same mouse. So, the weight is the same. If you take the cable out of the mouse it could weigh less than 80g.


----------



## giubox360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They are the same mouse. So, the weight is the same. If you take the cable out of the mouse it could weigh less than 80g.


Thank you very much for your reply


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> It's my daily driver too. I can think of plenty of ways to improve the Revel but the thing that stands out is: It's simple and it plain works without hassles and a shape that suits me.


Doesn't the revel have worse clicks/click latency?


----------



## aayman_farzand

^It was improved through firmware updates but is still worse compared to S1 and Logitech.


----------



## fourthavenue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> One of several approaches


I actually was planning to buy a ScreamOne though it's obviously overpriced for what quality it delivers. I got interested because many Korean Overwatch pros start to use finalmouse these days.
But when I saw they tried to fix the "button slam" issue with firmwares, I immediately gave up the idea.
I dare not buy a mouse from a manufacturer who wants to solve accidental button actuation with firmwares.

(Also, I'm not a fan of Screamone and I feel the signature on the mouse is disgusting. Even if I'm fan of someone, I won't want to use a product with his signature on it. It's just aesthetically ugly.)

Well, if they really see it as "one of several approaches", there can be two possibilities.
1. They don't do anything in the firmware. They just tell the consumers they fixed it. Then the foolish consumers will no longer feel the problem because of placebo effect.
2. They actually modified the firmware. The firmware now filters all the clicks. When the button is pressed, it does not report the click to your computer. It waits. It waits for an short delay to see if your button is released during the short delay period. If the button is released very shortly, then this click is considered a mouse slam. It will not be reported to the computer at all. If the button is not released in the short period, this click is considered done by human and then reported to the computer.
Imagine, a button click caused by mouse slam could be very short, the button will be naturally released after the mouse hit the mouse pad. But a click by human finger could hardly be that short. We don't yet need to talk about if this "approach" can effectively distinguish mouse slam and finger clicks. It just adds delay to all your clicks. Maybe the delay they set is very short, like 3ms, but it still is a delay, and it delays ALL your clicks. This is a trash "approach". I don't want to say the manufacturer that came up with such "approach" is trash, but I believe everyone has his own judge in his heart now.


----------



## t3ram

Is Scream playing with an Ergo with 3360 Sensor?
End of the Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcVMi0-ydmo


----------



## LoadSounds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Is Scream playing with an Ergo with 3360 Sensor?
> End of the Video
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcVMi0-ydmo


Yeah, I think FinalMouse once tweeted saying ScreaM was using a custom Ergo 2016 or something

EDIT:

here

https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/810570630609375232


----------



## ZupaDupaMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> If there's anyone here who has a sacrificial Finalmouse, would you mind experimenting with trimming off this part to see how it affects the slam issue?


I've tried it, it reduced the issue but it still exists if you really slam it hard. The v2 firmware fixes it completely for me without any noticeable extra delay.

Here is the firmware before v2: https://mega.nz/#!bF0iHQCJ!3yg43dJH5BL1ZB1rc1LQftZKQ5x49w4JI0GMH7PLWxI


----------



## killeraxemannic

The firmware fix actually seems to have fixed the issue for me in game. I have been playing with it now for quite some time and since the update I have yet to have the activation in game where as with the old firmware it would happen every so often. I posted the video above showing it still does happen if you drop it from an inch or so or tap it but I think the conditions the mouse is under in game are different from my tests. The firmware update definitely does something regarding click slams because before the update I could get it to activate 100% of the time by doing a specific tap motion and now it only happens like 25% of the time when I do that motion trying to make it happen.


----------



## aayman_farzand

My middle click is double clicking a lot of the time now. Jude I'm fairly certain you can fix this with FW as well, there's no way a second middle click can be pressed as fast.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> My middle click is double clicking a lot of the time now. Jude I'm fairly certain you can fix this with FW as well, there's no way a second middle click can be pressed as fast.


I have two and one is REALLY hard and the other is mushy and doesn't always go back up


----------



## fakeusername

Is there a way to tell which firmware you currently have?


----------



## nidzakv

This is the best mouse i've ever used, and im playing cs since 2001.. Perfect sensor, perfect sensor position, very nice clicks, great grips, ultra light

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## t3ram

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoadSounds*
> 
> Yeah, I think FinalMouse once tweeted saying ScreaM was using a custom Ergo 2016 or something
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> here
> 
> https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/810570630609375232


I will wait until they release the ergo with a 3360 and get that







some say that a new ergo will be released this year


----------



## Syn247

I picked one of these up a few weeks back but it ended up having a loose/rattling scroll wheel. It was sliding left and right within a 2-3mm range and sometimes got caught up against M1/M2. I was going to return it to Amazon but today was my deadline on the return, so instead I decided to see if I could fix the wheel issue myself.

Turned out easier than I thought: all it took was a couple of pieces of folded paper shoved in between the plastic posts to eliminate the wiggle room, and now the wheel has absolutely no rattle or side-to-side movement. This was the only defect with mine so now I have a flawless piece.

Pictures for reference in case anyone wants to try. First pic highlights the areas of interest:


----------



## t3ram

Is the led still always on even if the pc is turned off?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Is the led still always on even if the pc is turned off?


That's a motherboard setting. You can change it in the BIOS

For example my s1 when I had it would turn off led when I shutdown


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Is the led still always on even if the pc is turned off?


Unlike most other mice, the LED stays on as long as power comes out of the USB ports. You can set the USB to get powered off when the PC does on most motherboards.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Looks like the wheel on my on is giving out. Lost a round in CSGO yesterday because I kept pulling out a flash while trying to switch to my primary. MDOWN is flash for me.

@FinalMouse are you sure that this can't be fixed via FW? Because it really is not possible to issue so many scroll commands in such a small period of time.

I hate going through RMA processes, I'm in Bangladesh now and I'm sure the customs agent is going to want fees to have this shipped to me :/


----------



## ncck

Patiently waiting for a improved QC version of the tournament pro/S1 shape. Would like to give this mouse a whirl because as I've stated a bazillion times in the past the performance of the mouse and shape were pretty on point.. but the quality and price were just so atrocious. I can really only replicate the same aim with the zowie series.. and zowie lasts me well into 24 months of use while each S1 broke in the first 3 weeks of use... (yeah that's not a joke)

Hopefully that's in the pipeline or else I'm afraid that's the last I'll see of this brand


----------



## James N

No, changing your mouse feet does not void the warranty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Patiently waiting for a improved QC version of the tournament pro/S1 shape. Would like to give this mouse a whirl because as I've stated a bazillion times in the past the performance of the mouse and shape were pretty on point.. but the quality and price were just so atrocious. I can really only replicate the same aim with the zowie series.. and zowie lasts me well into 24 months of use while each S1 broke in the first 3 weeks of use... (yeah that's not a joke)
> 
> Hopefully that's in the pipeline or else I'm afraid that's the last I'll see of this brand


Don't you worry, the new and improved Finalmouse Obnoxious 2 will be in stock soon.



The mouse comes with built in speakers, so whenever it may break down or there are some issues with it, the mouse starts arguing and yelling at you that it is your fault.


----------



## ncck

Oh dear I hope the beard is a joke. No problem with the color scheme, still see a braided cable up top as well.. I've been less bothered by them but on a lightweight mouse a braided cable is more noticeable. If that's the version they're going to try and release with better build quality.... well that's a mistake to me - just make a professional one


----------



## aayman_farzand

I actually like it, how else are they going to incorporate player profiles into their mice without these tacky things.

On another note, I'm trying to RMA my S1 for double actuation of the middle click/ scroll and they are refusing to ship to my location. So much for global warranty...


----------



## benllok

Lol those pics were made just for fun but if they were produced I bet many people would buy them.

Anyway, when I watched this video I thought it could be a good idea if Finalmouse made a smaller version of the S1, just like you see at min 1:42 (props to m0e for not resizing the second image enough lol). Obviously the first thing for FM to do is build their mice with higher quality, but actually a smaller S1 would be an attractive option for Gpro, FK2 and Kinzu users, so why not FM? Good ideas sometimes happen by accident right?


----------



## James N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> Lol those pics were made just for fun but if they were produced I bet many people would buy them.
> 
> Anyway, when I watched this video I thought it could be a good idea if Finalmouse made a smaller version of the S1, just like you see at min 1:42 (props to m0e for not resizing the second image enough lol). Obviously the first thing for FM to do is build their mice with higher quality, but actually a smaller S1 would be an attractive option for Gpro, FK2 and Kinzu users, so why not FM? Good ideas sometimes happen by accident right?


Good that you cleared that up, i totally forgot to add that this isn't official.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I actually like it, how else are they going to incorporate player profiles into their mice without these tacky things.
> 
> On another note, I'm trying to RMA my S1 for double actuation of the middle click/ scroll and they are refusing to ship to my location. So much for global warranty...


If you bought it from Bangladesh, the same shop you bought it from should handle your replacement. I bought it from India through esportstore and they were more than willing to replace and pay for the shipping. If you bought it in the US and then went to Bangladesh you might have issues. Friend of mine had to get the replacement shipped to his US address and pick it up later when he was back.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> If you bought it in the US and then went to Bangladesh you might have issues. Friend of mine had to get the replacement shipped to his US address and pick it up later when he was back.


That's what I did, I could've sworn I saw Jude post about global warranty. I wonder if support can/will offer me a refund to my Paypal.


----------



## LLabwons

Quick review after using the S1 for a week or so now:

I went against my better judgement and ordered an S1 given that I thought the shape and features were attractive enough to warrant a test run. I wasn't altogether very wary of the pervasive quality control concerns because of Amazon's serviceable return policy - and the G403 was slowly but surely boring a hole into my palm. I pined for a mouse with the FK shape, lighter actuation on the switches, the 3360 even though the 3310 would have been fine, and better side buttons. Lo and behold, I think I may be at the end my mouse purchasing days.

The shape is very reminiscent of the FK1, much to my delight, and Finalmouse improved on every single aspect of the FK1 I cared to list. I have the latest firmware installed, which was certainly a bit silly to be bothered with, but now and even before, I never had the mouse accidentally actuate when slamming or swiping. The mouse can easily be made of actuate by slamming or dropping - sure - but I've used it more than enough by now to be certain that the mouse will very likely never betray me in that way.

Far be it from me to belabor the description of a mouse that's inclined to be simple in its shape and being without drivers, so I'll just conclude on the note that I can't see myself purchasing another mouse unless they release of a version of the S1 without the tacky logo - and that makes me supremely glad. Cheers, Finalmouse, I'm glad I went against the grain on this one.


----------



## smcelroy86

My first Scream One came with a faulty M1 switch which rarely registered, they sent a replacement and after only 2 months my M1 is sticking which makes rapid individual clicks impossible AND there is play between the shell and the actual M1 switch. So depressing... the actual feel and performance of the mouse when working correctly is GREAT but COMMON I'm 0/2 here. My Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 plugged into my other computer is from 2003.. 2003!!!!!! and it is still perfect. I guess it is no joke when they say they don't make them like they used to.


----------



## LLabwons

That is some impressively awful luck. I'm counting my blessings when I consider that I will most likely not have to deal with FM's customer support.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smcelroy86*
> 
> My first Scream One came with a faulty M1 switch which rarely registered, they sent a replacement and after only 2 months my M1 is sticking which makes rapid individual clicks impossible AND there is play between the shell and the actual M1 switch. So depressing... the actual feel and performance of the mouse when working correctly is GREAT but COMMON I'm 0/2 here. My Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 plugged into my other computer is from 2003.. 2003!!!!!! and it is still perfect. I guess it is no joke when they say they don't make them like they used to.


I gave up after my 5th became sticky, I really like the shape and the sensor but the clicks makes me wanna throw it through a window ^_^


----------



## ncck

Does anyone know how difficult it would be for them to fix the scroll wheel actuating in the wrong direction and slam clicks

Would it require them to be redesigned entirely? I believe both of those issues are physical rather than firmware

Hopefully that's on the road map


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Does anyone know how difficult it would be for them to fix the scroll wheel actuating in the wrong direction and slam clicks
> 
> Would it require them to be redesigned entirely? I believe both of those issues are physical rather than firmware
> 
> Hopefully that's on the road map


I never really had an issue with the slam click issue. My concern with the 'fix' via firmware was that it just messed around with the sensitivity of the M1/M2 buttons. I dunno if that affects the click latency or not. Who knows. But the scroll wheel issue I had was that it kept dislodging slightly towards my RMB. I'd have to click the scroll wheel back in place so it wouldn't get in the way of my RMB. Now THAT is definitely something that requires a physical fix, not a firmware fix.


----------



## killeraxemannic

As far as I can tell the click latency is exactly the same with the new firmware. I have tested it on the humanbenchmark site and my results are exactly the same with both versions of the firmware.


----------



## ncck

.


----------



## Crazy9000

I bought the mouse from Amazon at launch. So far the only real problem I've had (that wasn't from early firmware) is the right click has stopped working twice, until I spammed it really hard, then it works fine again. The scroll wheel does mess up, but I use scroll down for jump, and don't use scroll up, so the bad scrolls aren't affecting me.


----------



## aayman_farzand

The scrolls are getting to me, time to switch off from the S1. Lost two consecutive rounds because the scroll started acting up.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I bought the mouse from Amazon at launch. So far the only real problem I've had (that wasn't from early firmware) is the right click has stopped working twice, until I spammed it really hard, then it works fine again. The scroll wheel does mess up, but I use scroll down for jump, and don't use scroll up, so the bad scrolls aren't affecting me.


I use scroll down for movement then the game has scroll up bound to zoom in so it'd get me killed every fight (only in gears) I've never used A scroll wheel for movement besides in that game


----------



## Syn247

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I never really had an issue with the slam click issue. My concern with the 'fix' via firmware was that it just messed around with the sensitivity of the M1/M2 buttons. I dunno if that affects the click latency or not. Who knows. But the scroll wheel issue I had was that it kept dislodging slightly towards my RMB. I'd have to click the scroll wheel back in place so it wouldn't get in the way of my RMB. Now THAT is definitely something that requires a physical fix, not a firmware fix.


I had the same wheel issue you describe and fixed it with two pieces of folded paper (see previous post in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1591171/finalmouse-scream-one/3800_50#post_26065075 )

Worth doing if you still have your mouse.


----------



## gunit2004

Is there anyone that does not have any play on either of their mouse buttons (1 & 2). By play I mean when you place your finger on the button (without actuating it) you can feel that there is a very tiny gap between the button and the switch itself?

My initial copy I noticed it right away.... 2nd copy was fine but has slowly gotten the same issue (left click has play in it). It can be fairly annoying when just resting your finger on it and not wearing headphones (you can constantly hear the cheap sounding clack from the button touching the switch).... in actual gaming it's not THAT big of a deal but still noticeable. Definitely a QC issue that should not be on a mouse in this price range.


----------



## Alya

My right mouse button on my copy (before I returned it...) had a small amount of travel between the button and the switch, when tapping it gently I could not only feel it, but I could hear it.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is there anyone that does not have any play on either of their mouse buttons (1 & 2). By play I mean when you place your finger on the button (without actuating it) you can feel that there is a very tiny gap between the button and the switch itself?
> 
> My initial copy I noticed it right away.... 2nd copy was fine but has slowly gotten the same issue (left click has play in it). It can be fairly annoying when just resting your finger on it and not wearing headphones (you can constantly hear the cheap sounding clack from the button touching the switch).... in actual gaming it's not THAT big of a deal but still noticeable. Definitely a QC issue that should not be on a mouse in this price range.


My copy has this on the M1 button only. I emailed finalmouse about it and they are going to replace it. The new one is currently on the way.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> My copy has this on the M1 button only. I emailed finalmouse about it and they are going to replace it. The new one is currently on the way.


I feel like it is an issue that even if it isn't there in the beginning (like my 2nd copy) it will develop after you wear in the mouse.

Could easily be solved with a couple layers of paper or tape between the button and switch but that would probably void warranty, having to open the mouse.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> I feel like it is an issue that even if it isn't there in the beginning (like my 2nd copy) it will develop after you wear in the mouse.
> 
> Could easily be solved with a couple layers of paper or tape between the button and switch but that would probably void warranty, having to open the mouse.


I actually investigated the issue a bit further. It has to do with the way the back of the buttons connect to the top shell of the mouse. There are 2 clips on either side that grab a hold of the back of the buttons and keep them in place and I think over time they loosen up. I speculate that you could very easily fix the issue by taking apart the mouse and sticking a small piece of double sided foam stick tape inside and maybe not pulling one side off so it doesn't stick to the buttons. I think you just need something to fill the space. The pic below isn't mine but it gave me an idea of the design. I added an arrow to where I think you could put a small square of foam tape. I doubt it would affect clicks much at all and might even fix the click slam issue. I was going to experiment with mine but since finalmouse agreed to replace it I don't think I am going to do it unless the new version starts having the same issue.


----------



## ncck

Question, does anyone know what the mouse driver is doing that prevents the computer from sleeping (or even the monitor from sleeping?) is it drawing more power or forcing itself to always be in a non-sleep state. I assume most mice go to sleep when they're idling but I feel like this one doesn't and that's intentional - anyone know why?

p.s: My 4th unit is finally a working one.. my M4 button almost caved inward but it's ok.. lol


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> p.s: My 4th unit is finally a working one.. my M4 button almost caved inward but it's ok.. lol


They sent me a new one because the buttons on my old one rattled and my new one is near perfect. I'm really happy with it and it is my main right now until I get the Pure17. I would have had a much better look on finalmouse in general if I would have gotten this one first. It really is a good mouse with a good shape, good buttons and a nice feel its just all the firmware issues and quality control issues that brought it down. I even had a really good interaction with their customer service when they replaced this one. They were very nice and very responsive.


----------



## ncck

Oh I aim beyond perfect with this mouse. The downfall was a terrible launch with little real world testing from users and then constant bad pr (sorry Jude it's true)

My main complaint now is the terrible cable, throw a rubber one on and I'd use this mouse all day. I always liked it just never had a working one until now. Shame they even went this route with the cable so much drag. Great mouse otherwise


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Oh I aim beyond perfect with this mouse. The downfall was a terrible launch with little real world testing from users and then constant bad pr (sorry Jude it's true)
> 
> My main complaint now is the terrible cable, throw a rubber one on and I'd use this mouse all day. I always liked it just never had a working one until now. Shame they even went this route with the cable so much drag. Great mouse otherwise


I debraded my cable and it's really nice once you do that. I used a safety pin to slide under the sheathing and unbraid the cable to ensure that I didn't do any damage to anything. Took a while but well worth it. The debraded cable is nice and thin and quite flexible. It's amazing how much inflexibility the brading adds to the cable. This is the 3rd mouse I have done so far and I will probably do every braided mouse cable I get from now on.

As far as the bad PR goes I think they are a small company presented with sort of a nightmare with all of the unexpected S1 issues and really didn't know how to handle it. I think they are learning and would expect them to do better with future releases.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> As far as the bad PR goes I think they are a small company presented with sort of a nightmare with all of the unexpected S1 issues and really didn't know how to handle it. I think they are learning and would expect them to do better with future releases.


We're always listening and learning. Our next release will show the application of those lessons, and will be better.


----------



## nidzakv

@FinalMouse Classic ergo with 3360?

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> We're always listening and learning. Our next release will show the application of those lessons, and will be better.


For the love of god can you guys fix your warranty policy for unsupported regions? It was previously mentioned it had global warranty, then refunds for those with limited shipping channels and I'm yet to hear of a solution for your support team.


----------



## dwnfall

How is the shape/ clicks compared to the FK2? Are the clicks not as stiff? May pick this mouse up.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nidzakv*
> 
> @FinalMouse Classic ergo with 3360?
> 
> Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


I believe their plan is to bring out their classic ergo again with the 3360 by the end of this year - they are also going to release rubber cable versions (and it may just be rubber from the future onward?) Anyway lets see what happens later in the year.


----------



## unplayed namer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> How is the shape/ clicks compared to the FK2? Are the clicks not as stiff? May pick this mouse up.


how should the clicks be anywhere near that stiff to a zowie mouse, when people compare about actuating M1/M2 when tapping the mouse onto the pad?
Clicks are seperated from the shell and actuate waaaaaay easier than any Zowie mouse. Shape-wise it is rather big and ambidextruous, yet not low profile as the zowie fk series. It is a more like an ambi- shaped deathadder with the hump not as far to the front as on the DA.


----------



## killeraxemannic

I 100% support non braided cables..... Braided cables suck. The Scream One is hiding a nice flexible rubbery/plasticy cable underneath the braiding. Hell the Gpro cable is actually really flexible after you take off the braiding.


----------



## Randallell

Just received the Second Edition and hear are my thoughts so far:

Slamming mouse clicks are still a thing.
Scroll wheel doesn't have very pronounced steps.
Bottom of the mouse butt drags when flicking (maybe feet are too thin).

Am I missing something about this mouse? I don't understand the hype.


----------



## t3ram

It had everything to be hyped :
Top Sensor
Ambi Shape
Lightweight
but it still suffers some problems, which are a turn off


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallell*
> 
> Just received the Second Edition and hear are my thoughts so far:
> 
> Slamming mouse clicks are still a thing.
> Scroll wheel doesn't have very pronounced steps.
> Bottom of the mouse butt drags when flicking (maybe feet are too thin).
> 
> Am I missing something about this mouse? I don't understand the hype.


Nope. Not really. Most of the stuff this mouse suffers from is related to quality control and hardware related issues. FM rushed this mouse out the door and thought that maybe releasing a firmware update (that initially was available via Dropbox? Really FM?) would fix all these issues. It did not. You can't fix a scroll wheel that pops towards the M1 or M2 button (at least my 2 copies did) with a firmware update. And to be clear, you didn't actually have to 'slam' the mouse to actuate the M1/M2 buttons. Sometimes a simple swipe, low pick up and land gesture will actuate the buttons. Too bad FM, too bad. I really wanted to like this mouse.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nope. Not really. Most of the stuff this mouse suffers from is related to quality control and hardware related issues. FM rushed this mouse out the door and thought that maybe releasing a firmware update (that initially was available via Dropbox? Really FM?) would fix all these issues. It did not. You can't fix a scroll wheel that pops towards the M1 or M2 button (at least my 2 copies did) with a firmware update. And to be clear, you didn't actually have to 'slam' the mouse to actuate the M1/M2 buttons. Sometimes a simple swipe, low pick up and land gesture will actuate the buttons. Too bad FM, too bad. I really wanted to like this mouse.


Rushed but also delayed a few months


----------



## Randallell

Does anyone have an issue with the mouse feet? I feel like they're unusually slippery. I know that a control pad would help, but something I've noticed.


----------



## m0uz

Just received a heavily discounted Tournament Pro from eBay and if FailMoose were charging 70-80 quid for this thing it's an absolute disgrace. Just lowers my opinion of them even more. The QC is okay at best; rattling buttons, a weird tracking bug at the peak of it's lift-off distance, light showing through areas of the rubber paint, mushy side buttons, terrible stock feet and even after replacing them the base still scrapes all of my cloth pads. What the actual?

One consolation is that the 3360 in the ScreecH1 probably won't have tracking bugs but the rest is just bad manufacturing.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallell*
> 
> Am I missing something about this mouse? I don't understand the hype.


Exactly, I made that mistake first by buying this model, I won't be doing that again ever concerning anything that FM makes and sells.

This is one company that goes with fake propaganda and merchandising, don't be fooled like us idiots here in this section, FinalMouse is best avoided.

Far better products selling elsewhere, that perform far better than this piece of junk







.


----------



## dupp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Exactly, I made that mistake first by buying this model, I won't be doing that again ever concerning anything that FM makes and sells.
> 
> This is one company that goes with fake propaganda and merchandising, don't be fooled like us idiots here in this section, FinalMouse is best avoided.
> 
> Far better products selling elsewhere, that perform far better than this piece of junk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah quality control is not so good, but the shape and sensor make up for it.
All you need to do is fix it, since then it is the best mouse ive ever used!

I first added some ec2-a hyperglides:


Then IM 3.0 hyperglides:


Both felt really good imo, all I need to fix now is the scroll wheel that's getting stuck..

But overall it was well worth it. Really happy with the mouse so far.

EDIT: Yeah I did messed up with the contact glue, I used hyperglides from an old mice so I had to make it stick! hehe


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dupp*
> 
> Yeah quality control is not so good, but the shape and sensor make up for it.
> All you need to do is fix it, since then it is the best mouse ive ever used!


Much respect to you young man for going the distance with your product







.

Most of us simply couldn't be bothered and moved on to other mice, but if you're happy to customize yours then enjoy. I did that to my old G500 when I couldn't find any feet for it at the time but after sticking on some cut down G3s, it was alright to use.

I simply booted my FM downstairs, into the basement for the huntsmen to build their nests in.


----------



## shaiaz

I changed the feet on my s1 as well and it felt soo much better. If only I could get over the sluggy swamp clicks I would probably use it


----------



## TimeBomb

Bought a 2nd version not too long ago. Upgraded firmware and had next to no issues. Especially since they released the firmware that made tap clicking happen much less often. Great stuff!

Except. The left mouse button that goes back started pushing into the frame more deeply than it ever should. I can tap it lightly and it pushes in normally, but if I apply a bit more pressure (normal pressure I apply to every mouse), it starts pushing in a second time, deeper into the frame. Reminiscent of poor build quality, but not a big deal.

Except. My mouse wheel had a similar issue. Earlier this week it just kind of "clicked" slightly deeper into the frame. And now scrolling up and down doesn't work. At all. Mouse is unusable to me because of this. Will be contacting FinalMouse support at some point, but wow, I thought the quality of the mouse seemed decent up until this point, and it was mostly firmware decisions. Nope. Hardware also breaks down. Yikes. How much worse can you get?


----------



## fakeusername

Does anyone know if you can easily debraid the S1? Did it to my g303, so not new to this kind of thing but I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried.


----------



## dupp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Does anyone know if you can easily debraid the S1? Did it to my g303, so not new to this kind of thing but I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried.


Id like to debraid mine as well (s2), would you change the braid or just remove it?


----------



## Crazy9000

I de-braided mine, a few people in here have as well. I used a razor blade, I'm sure there's safer methods though lol.


----------



## Bucake

qsxcv suggested iris scissors, and mentioned flush cutters.
personally i just make the initial cut with a razor, then continue with my nail scissors. tedious, but works.


----------



## James N

I always used box cutter blades with a hook design. This way you don't risk damaging the cable and it is super quick. Once you found a start , you just hook it in and drag it along.



Try it out, works wonders.


----------



## killeraxemannic

I debraided both of mine... Original and replacement. Best and safest way I have found to debraid is to use a razor blade to very carefully get the braiding loose at one end and then use a safety pin to push up under the braid and lift up. It will literally fall appart if you tug it right with the pin. Once you get a decent length and it starts to get twisted when you put the pin down further just cut it off with a pair of scissors and repeat.


----------



## dupp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I debraided both of mine... Original and replacement. Best and safest way I have found to debraid is to use a razor blade to very carefully get the braiding loose at one end and then use a safety pin to push up under the braid and lift up. It will literally fall appart if you tug it right with the pin. Once you get a decent length and it starts to get twisted when you put the pin down further just cut it off with a pair of scissors and repeat.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I de-braided mine, a few people in here have as well. I used a razor blade, I'm sure there's safer methods though lol.


Whats under there, a standard rubber cord just like zowie mices?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dupp*
> 
> Whats under there, a standard rubber cord just like zowie mices?


No, just a normal cord with no rubber or anything. It just has the standard wire insulation on the outside... so it is probably a little more delicate than a rubber coated cable (not that it normally matters).


----------



## dupp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> No, just a normal cord with no rubber or anything. It just has the standard wire insulation on the outside... so it is probably a little more delicate than a rubber coated cable (not that it normally matters).


Mmh wondering if I should do it, how does it feels without the braiding?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dupp*
> 
> Mmh wondering if I should do it, how does it feels without the braiding?


The cable gets a lot lighter, it'll even be lighter then the rubber coated cables. I had to fight it a bit before debraiding, I like it a lot better now. It's worth the time if you've decided you like the mouse and are keeping it.


----------



## dupp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> The cable gets a lot lighter, it'll even be lighter then the rubber coated cables. I had to fight it a bit before debraiding, I like it a lot better now. It's worth the time if you've decided you like the mouse and are keeping it.


Yeah im def sticking to it, I'm gonna give it a try!

Edit: I've done it from the mice itself up to the bungie, too lazy to do the rest rn. Its totally worth it, best rubber cable ive ever had on a mouse, its super light.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> The cable gets a lot lighter, it'll even be lighter then the rubber coated cables. I had to fight it a bit before debraiding, I like it a lot better now. It's worth the time if you've decided you like the mouse and are keeping it.


Could you post a pic, I usually debraid all my mice but for FM alone I'd like to keep my warranty so I was on the fence.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Could you post a pic, I usually debraid all my mice but for FM alone I'd like to keep my warranty so I was on the fence.


----------



## killeraxemannic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roz133*
> 
> Could you post a pic, I usually debraid all my mice but for FM alone I'd like to keep my warranty so I was on the fence.


I debraided my first one and they didn't care about that when I had to get it replaced under warranty and I even told them up front about it in the initial email to them requesting RMA. As long as the debraiding isn't the cause of the failure I would think they will still honor the warranty because they did for me.


----------



## roz133

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killeraxemannic*
> 
> I debraided my first one and they didn't care about that when I had to get it replaced under warranty and I even told them up front about it in the initial email to them requesting RMA. As long as the debraiding isn't the cause of the failure I would think they will still honor the warranty because they did for me.


Good to know that, thanks


----------



## JsBee

Have there been any durability concerns with the S1 for people that have had it since release or shortly after?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Yes. I had one from the first batch, my scroll wheel registers more than once on a single scroll/


----------



## Zelva123

Any news on the new classic ergo? Jude?


----------



## MattKelly

Patiently awaiting the scream one edition in all black, with no signature, and a rubberized cable...

Would love an update on this, as the finalmouse twitter is nothing more than vague tweets such as: "No comment." and "Stay Tuned."

Jude, can we get a hint for a potential ETA, pretty please?


----------



## Secondo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattKelly*
> 
> Patiently awaiting the scream one edition in all black, with no signature, and a rubberized cable...
> 
> Would love an update on this, as the finalmouse twitter is nothing more than vague tweets such as: "No comment." and "Stay Tuned."
> 
> Jude, can we get a hint for a potential ETA, pretty please?


In Q3. E-mail I received from Finalmouse.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> In Q3. E-mail I received from Finalmouse.


Q3 and QC mentioned in the same post.


----------



## fakeusername

Well, this is actually damaging my mousepad with how trash the mouse feet are. Gonna have to retire this for literally anything else.



A shame because I actually do like this mouse. I had to import too since there's no local supplier so I can't RMA it either.


----------



## shaiaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Well, this is actually damaging my mousepad with how trash the mouse feet are. Gonna have to retire this for literally anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> A shame because I actually do like this mouse. I had to import too since there's no local supplier so I can't RMA it either.


Just get some hyperglides or something. The g pro or wmo / 3.0 / 1.1a feet works perfectly


----------



## giubox360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Yes. I had one from the first batch, my scroll wheel registers more than once on a single scroll/


Same problem here (it happen randomly) any solutions?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giubox360*
> 
> Same problem here (it happen randomly) any solutions?


Unfortunately there isn't. I had to contact support to get an RMA. I didn't get the new one yet as I had to ship it to an alternate address and will have it in July.


----------



## t3ram

My second edition starts double clicking is this a software problem oder hardware?


----------



## anthony1942

Does anyone know how do I open the mouse up? I don't seem to find the screws other than the two underneath the mouse feet. I want to install the paracord for it. Thanks!


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anthony1942*
> 
> Does anyone know how do I open the mouse up? I don't seem to find the screws other than the two underneath the mouse feet. I want to install the paracord for it. Thanks!


you gotta burn it with a flamethrower to soften it up and then smash it with a hammer until it's open


----------



## anthony1942

Seems legit, I got it modded already. Thanks for the input


----------



## FinalMouse

anthony, could you post pictures on the mod? The pictures seem to help others and we like to see how things are changed


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you gotta burn it with a flamethrower to soften it up and then smash it with a hammer until it's open


----------



## anthony1942

Dear Finalmouse,

Glad to see a community Rep here.

I should credit Sir Ino. for pointing out the procedure to disassembly. Here is his tip:


1. Unscrew the bottom two screws beneath the mouse feet, shake it a bit to let the upper shell to loosen itself.
2. Pull the upper shell towards the back, it should come off itself.

Video demonstration:




I screwed up something though so it's a bit unnecessarily long

3. Pull out the internal connector of the original cable, replace it with the new one, be it paracord or any other replacement. Fix the heat shrink if there is one
4. (This is a bit hard as you have to forcefully pull the PCB up, maybe I missed the screws.) Pull the PCB up carefully, let the small cables (green, black, red and white) slip around the edge of the PCB, and place them below it. Make sure that they are not intervening with the structure of the mouse, the PCB should not be wobbling in the end



5. Fix the heat shrink at the front
6. Reassemble the shell

Video demonstration of reassembly:



The mod itself is not complicated. Just have to be careful as the mouse does not seem to be structured with screws as what Logitech does with their mice.

A look at the internal:


Upper shell and lower shell:


The moment everything was finished:


By the way, when the unit arrived the mouse feet were really unusable. They were scratching the mouse pad all the time and they broke eventually. I replaced it with some G Pro Hyperglide feet and it is not working perfectly as the others said. Is there a way I can get some replacement feet or I have to order another copy of the mouse? Other than that, can you tell what the white substances in the mouse is? They seem to be residue of certain adhesive and it seems unusual to be present in the mouse. I got them right after opening the mouse up. They don't affect the performance, but it just seems ... imperfect in production.





I sent support an email but they turned me to Maxgaming.EU where I ordered the mouse from.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anthony1942*
> 
> By the way, when the unit arrived the mouse feet were really unusable. They were scratching the mouse pad all the time and they broke eventually. I replaced it with some G Pro Hyperglide feet and it is working perfectly as the others said. Is there a way I can get some replacement feet or I have to order another copy of the mouse?


My feet were pretty scratchy too, I think that's just how they are. I use a hard mouse pad so it wore them down and they don't scratch anymore.


----------



## FinalMouse

There have been some reports about the mouse feet, but we do not sell mouse feet separately at this time. It's something we've noted for future versions/products that will be tested and addressed.


----------



## anthony1942

Made an edit: the Hyperglide G pro feet are *NOT* working perfectly as the others suggest. If possible I would like to be kept informed about the revised version or any form of replacement feet available.

Other than everything said, it is a solid mouse with good sensor implementation and light weight design. I'm just saying It can be better.


----------



## xmr1

I'm not sure who thought it would be a good idea to have 16 sharp corners and 16 sharp edges total on the mouse feet.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeusername*
> 
> Well, this is actually damaging my mousepad with how trash the mouse feet are. Gonna have to retire this for literally anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> A shame because I actually do like this mouse. I had to import too since there's no local supplier so I can't RMA it either.


The mouse is good, but has bad feet so the only logical answer is to change... the mouse?
I can't even... how... bah! My brain hurts...

Btw you should ask Finalmouse to refund your pad if anything...


----------



## Ninjatuna

I just got the 2nd Edition Yesterday.

I am halfway through the post but if someone else has issues with the left click rattling or being loose let me know.

The Mousefeet/Underneath of the mouse feels really cheap and it almost messed up my mousepad, I had to change to Logitech G1 HyperGlides.

Anyways I don't even know why I bothered buying it, the Ergo 2016 felt cheap too and SO is exactly the same.

I guess I just wanted to rant.

Love you all.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ninjatuna*
> 
> I guess I just wanted to rant.
> 
> Love you all.


Fair enough, by the way OCN loves you too







.


----------



## unplayed namer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ninjatuna*
> 
> I just got the 2nd Edition Yesterday.
> 
> I am halfway through the post but if someone else has issues with the left click rattling or being loose let me know.
> 
> The Mousefeet/Underneath of the mouse feels really cheap and it almost messed up my mousepad, I had to change to Logitech G1 HyperGlides.
> 
> Anyways I don't even know why I bothered buying it, the Ergo 2016 felt cheap too and SO is exactly the same.


same applies to my copy. Mouse 1 is lose and rattling. Nothing that would bother me if I'd actually use the mouse, though.
Mouse feet are crap. I used a hard pad first to get them smoother, now they are somewhat O.K.
Overall quality and feel is on the level of a 10$ mouse tbh.
At least they got rid of the firmware issues.


----------



## NovaGOD

Use d2f-01f if you can, it's a taller switch and eliminates button rattle, at least worked for me but now it has a weird feeling, not the satisfying click i expected. As for the feet just use hyperglides, g-pro ones fits perfect.

I'm not using the mouse due to lod being too high, build quality and m1/m2 issues, i've seen 5$ office mice having better build tbh.


----------



## Straifer

Finalmouse! I have a solution for you. DA:E Cable, EC2-A Stock feet and shaving the feet grooves makes for a greatly improved experience!

If anyone is wondering why I used DA:E cable over a CeesA cable - I love Ceesa cables but something feels weird when the cable doesn't have a shield cable with this mouse. I know based on most information going around that a shield shouldn't have much of a effect but it does feel different. ( Could possibly be something to do with my setup.)


----------



## ncck

Found a strange reproducible bug. On windows 10 64 bit pro (latest build)

When your pc is in an off state with the FM S1 already plugged in and installed (driver installed). Turn on the PC and begin swiping the mouse around your mousepad nonstop until it boots into the windows login screen - you will have no mouse cursor and the mouse will not function - the fix is to shutdown again and reboot without moving the mouse during startup.

For more specifics my motherboard is the ASROCK z77 extreme4 and the mouse is in the intel usb 3.0 port. I can only reproduce this on the S1 and not 5 other mouses. It's not a big deal but just thought it was super strange. I'm guessing it has something to do with how the mouse firmware is setup or something since this is also the only mouse where my computer monitor will not go into rest mode during inactivity. I can reproduce this bug 8/10 times


----------



## davidoff2050

I had the same issue with my FM! You don't need to restart your Pc for that, just unplug and plug it again in usb port and the problem will be solved! I didn't found any solution for that and i returned the mouse! i don't know if it was the mouse or windows, but before this mouse i had another FM and had no connection problems!


----------



## Shogoki

I wonder when we will see the black version of the S1.


----------



## anthony1942

_Fix for scroll wheel rattle:_

*All credits to Syn247*

As of recent I've noticed that something at the front of my mouse is loose. I thought it was my error in installing the paracord, but it turns out to be the wheel instead of the cable end on the mouse. The post is primarily made for people who also have a loose scroll wheel.

Video demonstration of the rattle:





First off, to clear any doubt, this is why I thought it was due to bad installation:



At first I thought it was the heat shrink rattling and added some plastic underneath the heat shrink to stablise the cable. However, the issue turned up again today and I decided to take a closer look at the internal again. I checked the mouse wheel and found that there is a gap allowing the wheel to move. It moves for around 2~3mm only, but is annoying enough if you are a low sensitivity gamer.

Demonstration of the gap:




I decided to add something in between the gap to the right side, luckily I didn't throw away the transparent heat shrink I cut off from the paracord mod from CeeSa. It surprisingly helped me a lot in my first try on modding gaming mice.



Applied one piece to fill the gap:



Finishing look:



No matter how maniacally shaking it am I, it doesn't rattle at all!





Quote on Syn247's fix:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syn247*
> 
> I picked one of these up a few weeks back but it ended up having a loose/rattling scroll wheel. It was sliding left and right within a 2-3mm range and sometimes got caught up against M1/M2. I was going to return it to Amazon but today was my deadline on the return, so instead I decided to see if I could fix the wheel issue myself.
> 
> Turned out easier than I thought: all it took was a couple of pieces of folded paper shoved in between the plastic posts to eliminate the wiggle room, and now the wheel has absolutely no rattle or side-to-side movement. This was the only defect with mine so now I have a flawless piece.
> 
> Pictures for reference in case anyone wants to try. First pic highlights the areas of interest:


----------



## t3ram

Maybe someone else saw it but it seems like a new ergo is on its way

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGFwMSaUIAA8amx.jpg:small


----------



## aayman_farzand

Has anyone needed to contact their support lately? Sent an email couple of days back and still haven't heard anything. Hopefully it's just the weekend delays :|


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Has anyone needed to contact their support lately? Sent an email couple of days back and still haven't heard anything. Hopefully it's just the weekend delays :|


I did about couple weeks ago about updating version 1. They got back to me about 4 or 5 days(including weekends).


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> I did about couple weeks ago about updating version 1. They got back to me about 4 or 5 days(including weekends).


Thanks, I should be a bit patient then. Previously they responded to my emails really quick, sometimes the same day.

The RMA I got has a bad scroll and I think I'll need another.


----------



## Syn247

Glad I could help! I have since done similar fixes to some of my other mice with loose scroll wheels (notably: DM1 Pro S, Ninox Venator, and one of my DeathAdders). They weren't as loose as the FM but it was still nice getting them tightened up to feel flawless.

Certainly beats the whole repeat RMA process for just a little bit of time spent.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anthony1942*
> 
> _Fix for scroll wheel rattle:_
> 
> *All credits to Syn247*
> 
> As of recent I've noticed that something at the front of my mouse is loose. I thought it was my error in installing the paracord, but it turns out to be the wheel instead of the cable end on the mouse. The post is primarily made for people who also have a loose scroll wheel.
> 
> Video demonstration of the rattle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, to clear any doubt, this is why I thought it was due to bad installation:
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought it was the heat shrink rattling and added some plastic underneath the heat shrink to stablise the cable. However, the issue turned up again today and I decided to take a closer look at the internal again. I checked the mouse wheel and found that there is a gap allowing the wheel to move. It moves for around 2~3mm only, but is annoying enough if you are a low sensitivity gamer.
> 
> Demonstration of the gap:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to add something in between the gap to the right side, luckily I didn't throw away the transparent heat shrink I cut off from the paracord mod from CeeSa. It surprisingly helped me a lot in my first try on modding gaming mice.
> 
> 
> 
> Applied one piece to fill the gap:
> 
> 
> 
> Finishing look:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how maniacally shaking it am I, it doesn't rattle at all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote on Syn247's fix:


----------



## FinalMouse

Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


Random order, not necessarily "testers" but people I value their opinion: @qsxcv,@ncck,@CorruptBE,@Falkentyne,@James N,@SynergyCB,@coldc0ffee,@SoFGR


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


@Ino. and @qsxcv

If willing, of course.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


qsxcv and wareya - if they're willing are probably some of the most knowledgeable ones on the forum.

Thank you nova I'm flattered. But I'm only good for reviews - for extremely detailed testing I'd leave it to the above two since they have in-depth knowledge of mice and/or programming.. be warned though they will rip apart and dissect the mouse down to it's last trace


----------



## nidzakv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


Myself.. I'm playing cs over 16 years, one wcg.. 32 years old.. Had all your mices.. Classic ergo fan. Steam esknikola. Greetings.

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## favoxhille

hinting a new product?


----------



## m0uz

Obviously they don't believe the average consumer when they say their products are trash. They want super geniuses to tell them they're terrible. Then, and only then, will they truly believe their products have flaws.


----------



## t3ram

The new product is probably the classic ergo with 3360 and different colours


----------



## NovaGOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> qsxcv and wareya - if they're willing are probably some of the most knowledgeable ones on the forum.
> 
> Thank you nova I'm flattered. But I'm only good for reviews - for extremely detailed testing I'd leave it to the above two since they have in-depth knowledge of mice and/or programming.. be warned though they will rip apart and dissect the mouse down to it's last trace


Definitely in terms of knowledge qsxcv and i forgot about wareya you are correct,









I don't know what finalmouse are looking for exactly, people with extensive knowledge regarding sensor performance/technical details etc. or people that can identify common flaws(for example loose buttons/bad scroll wheel/thick cable/bad glide) easily and they are strict about them passing QA tests.


----------



## FinalMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NovaGOD*
> 
> Definitely in terms of knowledge qsxcv and i forgot about wareya you are correct,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what finalmouse are looking for exactly, people with extensive knowledge regarding sensor performance/technical details etc. or people that can identify common flaws(for example loose buttons/bad scroll wheel/thick cable/bad glide) easily and they are strict about them passing QA tests.


A bit of both.

When we say we are listening, we do mean it, though we understand why some doubt, mock, refer to known issues, etc. It is the Internet, after all, full of all kinds of... interesting people

No better way to test thoroughly than to include one of the key communities in the testing process.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


What others said already, if you want in depth analysis including electrical go for @qsxcv/@wareya. I can look at mechanical design, but I don't know if that's what you're aiming for.


----------



## daniel0731ex

No one nominating me for ergonomics/physical/dimensional analysis?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> No one nominating me for ergonomics/physical/dimensional analysis?


Probably no changes going to be made in that area at this point.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I forgot this mouse existed.

edit: Actually, I nominate PrincessSlipper & lyrill. Make it happen.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I forgot this mouse existed.
> 
> edit: Actually, I nominate PrincessSlipper & lyrill. Make it happen.


I see what you did there.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> What others said already, if you want in depth analysis including electrical go for @qsxcv/@wareya. I can look at mechanical design, but I don't know if that's what you're aiming for.


What he said.

Ino for the overall review and @qsxcv/@wareya if you want your mouse disassembled on both hard- and software level (firmware).


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I forgot this mouse existed.
> 
> edit: Actually, I nominate PrincessSlipper & lyrill. Make it happen.


I would pay money to see a mouse designed by that dynamic duo.


----------



## qsxcv

how about just send me the firmware?
i don't really care to actually use it

also if you want it hacked apart send one to @trism
not sure if he'd want though
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I nominate PrincessSlipper & lyrill. Make it happen.


+1


----------



## FinalmouseJude

testers for the new classic ergo 2 will be PM'd, nothing new here.

The testers that we are actually vetting is for something different entirely, a new type of mouse. Looking for people who will be okay being under strict NDA, able to think outside the box, add creative insight to something completely different, and very experienced in the subtleties of mouse feeling/shape and other nuances... Also must be located in the US and over the age of 18.


----------



## Tirppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> testers for the new classic ergo 2 will be PM'd, nothing new here.
> 
> The testers that we are actually vetting is for something different entirely, a new type of mouse. Looking for people who will be okay being under strict NDA, able to think outside the box, add creative insight to something completely different, and very experienced in the subtleties of mouse feeling/shape and other nuances... Also must be located in the US and over the age of 18.


I'm from Finland and have tried at least 10 different mice this summer.. do I qualify..

I kiiiiid..

cool to see new products from you guys..


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anthony1942*
> 
> _Fix for scroll wheel rattle:_
> 
> *All credits to Syn247*
> 
> As of recent I've noticed that something at the front of my mouse is loose. I thought it was my error in installing the paracord, but it turns out to be the wheel instead of the cable end on the mouse. The post is primarily made for people who also have a loose scroll wheel.
> 
> Finishing look:


Quick question, how well do those G Pro HyperGlides work on the Scream One? Good fit? Does the thickness of the skates cause any problems with tracking?


----------



## aayman_farzand

I'd nominate @popups for that actually.

I really hope you guys launch a durable product this time. I LOVE the S1 but it just doesn't last as long as Logitechs.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i don't really care to actually use it


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> testers for the new classic ergo 2 will be PM'd, nothing new here.
> 
> The testers that we are actually vetting is for something different entirely, a new type of mouse. Looking for people who will be okay being under strict NDA, able to think outside the box, add creative insight to something completely different, and very experienced in the subtleties of mouse feeling/shape and other nuances... Also must be located in the US and over the age of 18.


If you don't need input down to the technical level, and rather feedback on shape, performance 'feel', quality, and etc then I'm able to assist there. If it's going to be NDA then that's beneficial to me as i can add it on my resume. Let me know

However there are other users who may be more qualified input wise so look around. I'm just your typical "very good" gamer who cares a little more about quality of mice.


----------



## anthony1942

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Quick question, how well do those G Pro HyperGlides work on the Scream One? Good fit? Does the thickness of the skates cause any problems with tracking?


They didn't fit it at first. Give them some time so they're flattened and will fit in the mouse.

The thickness doesn't cause any problem. It's well-balanced and working well.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> testers for the new classic ergo 2 will be PM'd, nothing new here.
> 
> The testers that we are actually vetting is for something different entirely, a new type of mouse. Looking for people who will be okay being under strict NDA, able to think outside the box, add creative insight to something completely different, and very experienced in the subtleties of mouse feeling/shape and other nuances... Also must be located in the US and over the age of 18.


If you're honestly going to be taking feedback and making incremental design changes then I would be interested in helping. Not just tossing a PCB in a new shell with whatever parts the OEM already has.

The S1 was a start but it's clearly not a fully fleshed out product in terms of attention to detail and presentation. Shape/performance/QC excluded, you look at the design language of something like the G403 vs the S1 and there's no comparison. That's the next step that must be taken.


----------



## nidzakv

Just keep standard ergo shape, improve quality, stick with S1 flawless sensor, better clicks.. And maybe rubber cable.. It will be top selling mouse..

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## Aventadoor

New feet please.


----------



## SpiLLi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> testers for the new classic ergo 2 will be PM'd, nothing new here.
> 
> The testers that we are actually vetting is for something different entirely, a new type of mouse. Looking for people who will be okay being under strict NDA, able to think outside the box, add creative insight to something completely different, and very experienced in the subtleties of mouse feeling/shape and other nuances... Also must be located in the US and over the age of 18.


Id be down to test it and give feedback! I have used every single one of your mice to date including the revisions and reviewed some of them on my channel. Most of the reviews on my channel are "feel" reviews but i do have a computer/mechanical engineering degree and consider myself pretty familiar tech specs wise. I can also open it up if requested!

Also (not sure if this matters?) Former CS ESEA A+ (when A+ was the highest) player and IM player. I do most of my testing in CS

edit: should also mention i work as a systems engineer for a multi billion dollar CU. Im very familiar with NDA's


----------



## shaiaz

I'd love to test the new mouse









I have about 40 or something and have had lengthy talks with both steelseries and zowie about their design choices would love to be able to help


----------



## smcelroy86

intellimouse 3.0 shape, GO


----------



## nidzakv

@finalmouse Any Release Date?

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> It is the Internet, after all, full of all kinds of... interesting people


as is your company


----------



## MFlow

Does anyone have firmware for scream one first edition? I need it. Old download links no longer work.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Does anyone have firmware for scream one first edition? I need it. Old download links no longer work.


Email their support


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Email their support


Yes I already sent them an email. They have it, right?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Yes I already sent them an email. They have it, right?


I don't work for them lol. I'm just saying your best bet is contacting them


----------



## sirneb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Yes I already sent them an email. They have it, right?


I emailed them, it took them about a week to get back to me. But with some effort, I successfully did the update. If I recall correctly, the link they provided didn't even have the latest firmware so I had to "hack" it in to get the latest. Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, hopefully you will be given better instructions than me(they pretty much just gave me a new dropbox link to download).


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> I emailed them, it took them about a week to get back to me. But with some effort, I successfully did the update. If I recall correctly, the link they provided didn't even have the latest firmware so I had to "hack" it in to get the latest. Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, hopefully you will be given better instructions than me(they pretty much just gave me a new dropbox link to download).


Oh! thanks.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalMouse*
> 
> Who would you guys consider the best/most thorough testers in this section of the forums?


Would you give me firmware and instructions for the s1 first edition? I sent a mail but fm did not reply even though they read my mail.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirneb*
> 
> I emailed them, it took them about a week to get back to me. But with some effort, I successfully did the update. If I recall correctly, the link they provided didn't even have the latest firmware so I had to "hack" it in to get the latest. Unfortunately I don't remember all the details, hopefully you will be given better instructions than me(they pretty much just gave me a new dropbox link to download).


The S1 first edition firmware just updates your first edition into a second edition, and from there you install the normal second edition firmwares off the website.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> The S1 first edition firmware just updates your first edition into a second edition, and from there you install the normal second edition firmwares off the website.


I know. But the problem is that there is no place to download firmware of s1 first edition. FM does not reply.
I have not yet installed the firmware on my s1 first edition.


----------



## MFlow

I just received an email from fm with firmware attached. I would like to put it on a thread, but if the second edition users use this firmware, it will be a brick, so I will not upload the link separately.


----------



## the1freeMan

Did mcu smoothing ever get turned off in any
of these updates?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Did mcu smoothing ever get turned off in any
> of these updates?


Scream One never had any firmware added smoothing.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Did mcu smoothing ever get turned off in any
> of these updates?


I believe the MCU smoothing was an issue with the older mice and not the S1.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Scream One never had any firmware added smoothing.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I believe the MCU smoothing was an issue with the older mice and not the S1.


Nice.


----------



## Zeper

So when is the new finalmouse releasing. I'm thinking of getting one, but waiting for the new version to come out


----------



## Birdlfew

My Finalmouse Scream One Second Edition broke and I emailed support and they expect the earliest ETA to be November for my replacement


----------



## nidzakv

Omg!

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## Zeper

Thanks, november it is then. I'll probably get a rival 310 as a replacement until then.


----------



## Nivity

Will also try the new edition if things are fixed/better in that version.


----------



## ncck

Indeed rubber S1, better QC, rounded mouse skates = a solid product


----------



## MattKelly

I'm going to be so bummed if the release date is actually November! I've been waiting for months to switch to the Scream One, but didn't want to make any major changes before the Quake World Championship. @FinalMouse @FinalmouseJude any chance I could switch over to a prototype black Scream One before DreamHack Denver / Sweden?


----------



## FinalmouseJude

Classic ergo 2 will be out well before November. Sometime this month.

As for scream one, its been discontinued. This is happening because in November we are releasing our new type of mouse. Not saying we wont bring back a tournament pro/traditional scream one, it really just depends on how our new "design" goes over with people. We may even discontinue classic ergo 2 depending on how many people switch over from that also... hard to gauge demand until we see it in the real market.


----------



## MattKelly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> Classic ergo 2 will be out well before November. Sometime this month.
> 
> As for scream one, its been discontinued. This is happening because in November we are releasing our new type of mouse. Not saying we wont bring back a tournament pro/traditional scream one, it really just depends on how our new "design" goes over with people. We may even discontinue classic ergo 2 depending on how many people switch over from that also... hard to gauge demand until we see it in the real market.


That's helpful information - thank you. I'm sure you're not at the liberty to discuss too many details, but just wondering, will the new design be ambidextrous and/or similar to the WMO/IMO1.1/TP/S1 in shape? I'd just love to know if I should patiently await the new design, or start hunting for a Scream One before DreamHack. Thanks again!


----------



## aayman_farzand

So let me guess, mouse with swappable shells? Otherwise why would they want to discontinue to grip styles.


----------



## nidzakv

@FinalmouseJude Hope you preserved original Classic ergo shape







))

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## nisemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nidzakv*
> 
> @FinalmouseJude Hope you preserved original Classic ergo shape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ))


I hope not, I really loved the mouse but it was too short for me. My fingers hang over the front and it causes my hand to get tired. If it was 20% longer I'd love it!


----------



## rlwgone

Anyone happen to know if the Finalmouse 2015 (?) or Scream One internals fit into the ergo shell or if it's a completely different PCB. I don't particularly care about the side buttons.


----------



## Horsey

i used more than 10 mice for FPS games and the classic ego was my fav and i'm really happy you guys going to make a new one and i can't wait

i just hope it will have a better cable


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsey*
> 
> i used more than 10 mice for FPS games and the classic ego was my fav and i'm really happy you guys going to make a new one and i can't wait
> 
> i just hope it will have a better cable


Hope it actually lasts as well.


----------



## nidzakv

Just improve build quality for 20% and dont change anything else.
Maybe a 500/1000hz polling rate change like zowie did.. Winwin..


----------



## JsBee

Is there anything you guys can share about the dimensions of the mouse?


----------



## solz

MX518 dream


----------



## MattKelly

I finally got my hands on a Scream One (despite it being out of stock everywhere) but unfortunately it has a mushy left click (right click is great, though). Has anyone here had luck getting a replacement, even when not buying directly through Finalmouse / Amazon? It sounds like either way I couldn't get a replacement until November, though?


----------



## Birdlfew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattKelly*
> 
> I finally got my hands on a Scream One (despite it being out of stock everywhere) but unfortunately it has a mushy left click (right click is great, though). Has anyone here had luck getting a replacement, even when not buying directly through Finalmouse / Amazon? It sounds like either way I couldn't get a replacement until November, though?


Imported one from US to UK as a replacement until November, its practically flawless. payed 70 GBP


----------



## MattKelly

Spoke with support and it looks like @Birdlfew is correct - no replacement for the Scream One until November (or whenever the new version is released). I'm still hoping they can throw a prototype my way before I fly out to DreamHack Winter (_cough_ _cough_ @FinalMouse @FinalmouseJude







). Until then, though, I'd really like to try and fix the mushy feeling left click on my current Scream One. This would be my first time trying to do a mod like this myself, so if anyone has any insight on how I might go about fixing this (would replacing the physical switches do the trick?) then I'd be grateful to hear it!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JsBee*
> 
> Is there anything you guys can share about the dimensions of the mouse?


The ergo 2 is supposed to drop this month right?? september 19th currently, looking grim on that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JsBee*
> 
> Is there anything you guys can share about the dimensions of the mouse?


Unless they have changed the shell significantly, the dimensions should be as follows still.

124Lx70Wx42H


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The ergo 2 is supposed to drop this month right?? september 19th currently, looking grim on that.
> Unless they have changed the shell significantly, the dimensions should be as follows still.
> 
> 124Lx70Wx42H


https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/910308208685846533


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeterDLai*
> 
> https://twitter.com/finalmouse/status/910308208685846533


Oh snap. lol

Still not a solidified release date yet, but I am happy for the re-release.

Edit: side buttons do not look changed at all. They appear to be the same sharp edged ones some did not like.


----------



## FinalmouseJude

We are currently early releasing the classic 2 to active and experienced community members and our pro gamers. Samples are free... Currently handpicking individuals who can give good feedback and review. If you used a classic ergo extensively in the past that's a bonus. PM me if you are interested.

We are taking every step of the release very seriously now... from Inhouse testing to early release testers. This is all in an effort to improve our quality as that has been the most vocal critique from you guys and the rest of the community. The scream one was a good wake up call for us and I hope we can deliver perfect products from the start and not just in the third production batch. For example, we took great strides to make sure the feet were cut perfectly, as this was a serious complain from many in the past.


----------



## Horsey

like what i said before i used more than 10 mic and the classic ergo was my favorite and when i use it i never blame the mouse when i miss my shot, but sadly i don't live USA so i can't handpick it

can't wait for the new classic ergo release


----------



## nidzakv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> We are currently early releasing the classic 2 to active and experienced community members and our pro gamers. Samples are free... Currently handpicking individuals who can give good feedback and review. If you used a classic ergo extensively in the past that's a bonus. PM me if you are interested.
> 
> We are taking every step of the release very seriously now... from Inhouse testing to early release testers. This is all in an effort to improve our quality as that has been the most vocal critique from you guys and the rest of the community. The scream one was a good wake up call for us and I hope we can deliver perfect products from the start and not just in the third production batch. For example, we took great strides to make sure the feet were cut perfectly, as this was a serious complain from many in the past.


Can't wait too ?..

Послато са LG-D802 уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FinalmouseJude*
> 
> This is all in an effort to improve our quality as that has been the most vocal critique from you guys and the rest of the community.


Other than the color, what's changed? Grip looks exactly the same and I'm guessing the shell materials are clear identical as well.


----------



## Poodle

Should there be a thread called as *Finalmouse Ergo 2*?


----------



## benllok

It seems to me they've removed that right side lip which was agressive for many or at least softened it up


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> It seems to me they've removed that right side lip which was agressive for many or at least softened it up


Still looks there to me.


----------



## b0z0

Looking forward to the Ergo v2. I really dont like the Sensei 310 and rival 310


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Still looks there to me.


Well, if that's the case it'd be so lazy of them. I mean, I understand why they had to use an OEM shell at beginning, but at this point, the R&D has to show up right? I just refuse to think they swapped sensors, painted the shell and called it a day. Just saying if they managed to smooth it out a little bit, it wouldn't harm much. Anyway, whatever they did, I hope they got the QC right this time.


----------



## t3ram

Is there something similar in shape/weight/size as the Scream1?
Ive had the Mastermouse Pro but it was sadly to heavy







and most other mice i tried have had a to high hump for me


----------



## davidoff2050

You could wait until they bring back the S1 model with same shape but some major improvements in Qc and different colors, like they promised!


----------



## t3ram

But that could take years


----------



## davidoff2050

Maybe #Finalmouse will light the way in this subject!








With hope, probably in early next year they will release a new product based on S1 mouse!















Till then, i discovered 2 "new" S1 mice for sale with 40 Euros in my country, and i'm thinking to buy one,to see if i get the luck this time to find "the perfect S1" without bad QC!


----------



## P54J

One word: need buttons to be more crispy on S1


----------



## Ranzel099

Hey by any chance does anyone have the firmware upgrade for a scream 1 first edition? been looking everywhere, the original dropbox link 404'd...


----------



## Ranzel099

*Firmware*

Does anybody have the firmware flash for the finalmouse scream one first edition?


----------



## Ranzel099

*Found it*

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TqcbUAraUYsBrrAfiiGtvn3TOTav7_mJ?usp=sharing


----------



## Aventadoor

Is the S1 500 or 1000hz? My S1 is at 1000hz, but I cant remember if its duo to firmware upgrade or me doing something funky to get it at 1khz...


----------



## xmr1

Aventadoor said:


> Is the S1 500 or 1000hz? My S1 is at 1000hz, but I cant remember if its duo to firmware upgrade or me doing something funky to get it at 1khz...


1000


----------

