# Can we please talk about Water chillers?! 3950x cooling upgrade possibly



## skupples

well, one big loop is traditionally a better option than splitting things, and if you keep the chiller set at a conservative temp, you shouldn't have any issues. 

I return to this idea every summer, trust me.


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## newls1

well, lets do it. make it a group purchase maybe performance pcs will cut a few bucks off if we both purchase??


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## newls1

ok, so im going to purchase this chiller ( https://www.performance-pcs.com/wate...r-hc-300a.html ) now the last final questions... Is there a res inside that unit i need to fill and use along with a res in my case? Would using 2 D5's in series be a good choice to go with, and do i mount them in my case, or what? really getting excited about this as this would be a HUGE cooling upgrade but i dont want to rush into this without doing all my homework?


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## Hydroplane

The 300 should be plenty for a 3950x running above the dew point. Go for the 500 if you want to add the radeon 7 to the loop. The unit has a res internally but you will need a pump. 1 D5 is plenty, you can put it wherever you want. You will want to get a humidistat (like $10 on amazon) if you don't have one. Then you can use a site like dpcalc.org to calculator/monitor your dew point.

Definitely take the rad out, if you are running the water below room temp, then the rad is adding heat to the loop instead of removing.


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## newls1

Hydroplane said:


> The 300 should be plenty for a 3950x running above the dew point. Go for the 500 if you want to add the radeon 7 to the loop. The unit has a res internally but you will need a pump. 1 D5 is plenty, you can put it wherever you want. You will want to get a humidistat (like $10 on amazon) if you don't have one. Then you can use a site like dpcalc.org to calculator/monitor your dew point.
> 
> Definitely take the rad out, if you are running the water below room temp, then the rad is adding heat to the loop instead of removing.


thanks for the reply. i was hoping to keep the rad in just for a failsafe, and on cold days when i dont need the chiller, it would be like using a normal loop. Also, performance pcs says to keep rad in, and i always wondered why. I understand the logic behind it, like it will add heat, but..... will it really be that much??


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## Mr. Mojo

Just spitballing here, but you could run the rad in parallel with the chiller and include shutoff valves on both, which would make switching between the 2 trivial.


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## newls1

trying to think where on my loop i introduce the chiller into.. my loop is as follows, pump-res combo, rad, cpu block, res. So how do i plumb this chiller in? go like this maybe: Res - pump - out of case down to chiller - back into case to cpu block - res?


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## ThrashZone

Hi,
Air chilling is a lot more straight forward and can be used in other applications than water chiller can 
Air chiller can be a backup if house a/c goes out or for outside events


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## toolmaker03

ok so can this CPU and GPU be chilled yes. first point go to the phase change section to get more information. second you will need at least twice the cooling capacity, of the load wattage to cool that component. so will a 500 watt cooler cool a 790 watt CPU? no it will not. in fact it will take at least 1500 watts of cooling to keep this cool. so it will take three 500 watt units to keep this CPU cool.


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## newls1

toolmaker03 said:


> ok so can this CPU and GPU be chilled yes. first point go to the phase change section to get more information. second you will need at least twice the cooling capacity, of the load wattage to cool that component. so will a 500 watt cooler cool a 790 watt CPU? no it will not. in fact it will take at least 1500 watts of cooling to keep this cool. so it will take three 500 watt units to keep this CPU cool.


a 3950x is NOT a 790w cpu. Where are you getting your info from. This 400w+ chiller i would think should be just sized right for this application


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## toolmaker03

newls1 said:


> a 3950x is NOT a 790w cpu. Where are you getting your info from. This 400w+ chiller i would think should be just sized right for this application



I just assumed this was a TR4 system. it looks like this CPU will pull about 335 watts at a good over clock. I would suggest getting a mono block for this build, as VRM's will get really hot with a overclock on this CPU. with both the VRM's and the CPU it will put the wattage needing to be cooled about 670 watts total. I would still suggest three 500 watt water chillers to keep this system cool.


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## Hydroplane

toolmaker03 said:


> ok so can this CPU and GPU be chilled yes. first point go to the phase change section to get more information. second you will need at least twice the cooling capacity, of the load wattage to cool that component. so will a 500 watt cooler cool a 790 watt CPU? no it will not. in fact it will take at least 1500 watts of cooling to keep this cool. so it will take three 500 watt units to keep this CPU cool.


For peltier/tecs yes, but chillers are different. The power consumed by a chiller just represents the power draw (mainly) of its compressor. While peltiers/tecs cancel out heat, chillers move it from point A to point B. So a 500W chiller can move more heat than that from a CPU/GPU. The tough part is calculating how much. But if OP wants to run above the dew point, it's a fairly limited cooling load, max 20c below room temp. Now for me to run at -30C requires more HP 

Ex. I have 1/2hp (~360w) chiller on 9900K. My 9900K pulls ~235W at full load. The chiller will pull the water straight down to 3c even with this heat load applied and will go well below the dew point unless I turn it off first.

VRMs on X570 aren't too bad as far as heat goes. The C8H should be good for it. Only issue with monoblocks, it can be difficult to get them flat on the CPU vs a traditional block


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## toolmaker03

Hydroplane said:


> For peltier/tecs yes, but chillers are different. The power consumed by a chiller just represents the power draw (mainly) of its compressor. While peltiers/tecs cancel out heat, chillers move it from point A to point B. So a 500W chiller can move more heat than that from a CPU/GPU. The tough part is calculating how much. But if OP wants to run above the dew point, it's a fairly limited cooling load, max 20c below room temp. Now for me to run at -30C requires more HP
> 
> Ex. I have 1/2hp (~360w) chiller on 9900K. My 9900K pulls ~235W at full load. The chiller will pull the water straight down to 3c even with this heat load applied and will go well below the dew point unless I turn it off first.
> 
> VRMs on X570 aren't too bad as far as heat goes. The C8H should be good for it. Only issue with monoblocks, it can be difficult to get them flat on the CPU vs a traditional block


 
well this is why I said to go to the phase change section and do some reading. while I will agree that a water chiller will and can get water down to -20C with no load. the compressor needs to cool off, so it can not run continuously, with out burning it self up. during the time that the compressor needs to cool down, the water will heat up. from what I have read, most start their PC systems after the water has been cooled to -20C, and with about 20 galleons of water in the system. this will give them about two hours before the water is above 0C, and rising. now if this is all the time he needs to do what he is looking to do with this system, than a single chiller would be fine. now the ones big enough to overcome this issue, have been whole house sized units, or people using three to four smaller chillers, started up in sequence with each other. so as one shuts off, the next one turns on. most water chillers are designed to run for 10 to 15 min, than be off for 45 to 60 min, or longer to cool the compressor.


on a side note, with the way I did my TEC water chiller. I needed three times the load wattage, to hold the system water at 0C while the PC system is at load.


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## newls1

Toolmaker... you are taking this to a whole different level. The vrm's on this board dont even get remotely warm to touch with current oc and NO FANS on that are dirrectly above vrm section. Once i have my 12fans on rad's on (rads are above vrm section) the vrms stay room temp to touch and never more. Zero need to watercool them plus if you watch buildzoids video of this vrm section he further explains how well built they are. 
Im just wanting a cold water setup to play with, pc might be used 8hrs a week and thats it. Its just a toy. I do very much appreciate your feedback, however u are taking this way out of concept


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## toolmaker03

newls1 said:


> Toolmaker... you are taking this to a whole different level. The vrm's on this board dont even get remotely warm to touch with current oc and NO FANS on that are dirrectly above vrm section. Once i have my 12fans on rad's on (rads are above vrm section) the vrms stay room temp to touch and never more. Zero need to watercool them plus if you watch buildzoids video of this vrm section he further explains how well built they are.
> Im just wanting a cold water setup to play with, pc might be used 8hrs a week and thats it. Its just a toy. I do very much appreciate your feedback, however u are taking this way out of concept


 
well in truth I am trying to talk you out of this, as I realized what your intensions are. I have run a old swiftech TEC CPU chiller, and phase change CPU cooler years ago. all extreme cooling systems can cause condensation, and I lost both of my earlier systems to condensation. no one wants to burn up a $2000 dollar PC, just because they wanted to play around with extreme cooling. I would hate to see you destroy a system, because of inadequate insolation on the mother board, and around the CPU socket. the ambient temp of your room in most cases is not the ambient temp inside the case. it is the temp around the components, inside the case, that will matter when it comes to dew point, and condensation, occurring inside the case.


this was basically what I did with my phase change and both our systems died from condensation. it is harder to do right than the instructions will lead you to think.






this is what I fear will happen, with your simple idea of just cooling the water.


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## ThrashZone

Hi,
Water chiller for 8 hours a week is pretty crazy 
Think air chiller 

If you want a water chiller get saltwater fish tank


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## keeph8n

Seems a bit excessive tbh. I had a HC500A for awhile. its rated to about 760W worth of cooling capacity. I had mine modified for subzero and it was meh at best.


3950X should be able to be kept cool without any issues using standard water cooling components.


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## Puck

These Ryzens are surprisingly cool at stockish clocks but heat scales like crazy and they get real hot real fast when pushing clocks and voltage... My 3600 @ 4.4ghz/1.36v gets my ~200w dissipating ("600w" rated) custom TEC block up to ~16c at sustained full load which is nuts when my 4790k at 5ghz with higher voltage only brought it to 6-7c. Thats load temps in the mid 60s in benchmarks/high50s in games, an easy 10c hotter on a "65w" TDP chip vs an "88w". 3950x would be crazy hard to cool with that much heat in that small space.

As for condensation, Toolmaker is basically right - it is extremely difficult to insulate for 24/7 usage sub ambient. I have been sub ambient for many years on multiple different systems and boards but always eventually have problems even with much more experience than most. With proper insulation, a fan blowing on the block/mobo for airflow to limit the inescapable surface condensation on the insulation, and by keeping it from going too far down below dew point you can run for years before any issues but eventually it will happen. with the fan it helps evaporate as it forms so there is barely any surface condensation build up at exact dew point and 1c below dew point so you get some wiggle room, but keep in mind dew point might be slightly higher than you expect since inside the case is always warmer than outside. Most people assume the issues will be due to condensation on the motherboard but thats not the case - the motherboard is easy to insulate, its the hard to get to nooks and crannies in the CPU and socket that are the issue over time. I had almost 3 years on my last chip before it died and it was due to condensation INSIDE the socket. Guess the dielectric shrunk/melted/evaporated and got an air pocket that corroded the bottom of the CPU over time. I bet if I hit both the inside of the socket and center of the CPU with LET before the dielectric it would still be running. The chip before that lasted about 2 years due to condensation build up UNDER the IHS which ruined the surface mount components on the CPU (need to remove IHS and seal all around the die). I've noticed at least on my Asus Ryzen board there is a tiny pin hole inside the CPU socket which would need to be sealed for sub-ambient use. I would put a piece of duct tape on the back of the board and fill the hole with superglue before hitting it with LET.

If you are always ~2c over dew point with a smart controller that auto adjusts you could theoretically run forever and have awesome temps through the winter, but in the summer if you are in a humid area thats only like 7c colder than plain water and at that point is it even worth it for all the extra power draw, heat released, and complication for 7c??? I lock my CPU block to 15c during the summer and 10c during the winter, but now with this Ryzen it can't hold under 15c anyway so basically...COOLING UPGRADE TIME LOL. Throwing in the third 480 rad Ive been sitting on and switching to a dedicated 24v PSU to run 16-18v instead of 12 should drop me close to 10c total.

Should have pics of each failure if you're interested. If you still want to go with it and have any questions, let me know...I've seen each failure first hand and its usually things you dont immediately think about. I also recommend a horizontal motherboard layout as well. Surface condensation on top of the insulation is very common, and on a vertical motherboard setup it will pool up on the bottom of the block and drip onto your GPU - almost lost a 7970 back in the day from that too before I switched to a cube style horizontal case.


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## StAndrew

What thermal paste would you use? I'm considering implementing a chiller in my water loop. Using a PCI slot pass-through and three ball check valves / two t-fittings, I could run it closed within my water loop or run it to the chiller and turn off the radiator fans. 

It'll be $100ish just in hardware, never mind the $300+ chiller so I'm not yet sold on this.


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## Puck

StAndrew said:


> What thermal paste would you use? I'm considering implementing a chiller in my water loop. Using a PCI slot pass-through and three ball check valves / two t-fittings, I could run it closed within my water loop or run it to the chiller and turn off the radiator fans.
> 
> It'll be $100ish just in hardware, never mind the $300+ chiller so I'm not yet sold on this.


Not sure what the latest and greatest TIM is but Arctic Silver Ceramique2 lasts a long time under sub-ambient and is a popular TIM for chillers that won't dry out and lower performance as quickly as many others and used to be the "go-to" TIM for phase and chillers back in the day. Liquid metal TIMs like CLP/CLU are amazing top performance TIMs for chillers since they become a solid again around 10c, basically soldering the block to the CPU, but are extremely corrosive to aluminum and even on copper/nickle it will stain and be very difficult to remove after a while. It yanked my delidded+reglued IHS off the chip when removing it and I had to basically lap my block and IHS to remove after ~1yr of use when I upgraded my block. Now I just use the AS Ceramique. Cheap as heck, lasts a long time, and with a chiller temps are almost the same between TIMs anyway.


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## skupples

^ ^ yessir, LMs will remove nickel, then pit the base copper. 

do solder pads still exist? I used the "EXTREME EK" reflow pads back in the x79 days with great success.


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## StAndrew

skupples said:


> ^ ^ yessir, LMs will remove nickel, then pit the base copper.
> 
> do solder pads still exist? I used the "EXTREME EK" reflow pads back in the x79 days with great success.


I still have one more Indigo Xtreme LGA1366 socket pad . I'm pretty sure it will work with an 1151 CPU IHS. 

I know liquid metal and nickle react but everything I hear is it just forms an alloy on the surface. I've also heard that liquid metal and liquid nitrogen cooling are not compatible so I don't know how cold LM can get before it stops working.


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## skupples

not sure about LN2 and LM, but I can 100% confirm CLU will pit your copper & eventually eat thru nickel plating. it contains galium, so hard to avoid really.


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## Dimebagg

the hc300 is a tiny chiller. You will be disappointed. Might aswell just stick with ambient honestly. i run a hc1000a on a 7980xe pulling 600w. Running temps at 1c i still see 60c+ so the 300a is a joke. Stay ambient or fully commit to a proper chiller. (single 2080ti)

However for day to day i run 10c on the chiller to keep away from dew forming in my case. 
Or when im feeling lazy i have the loop also attached to a Motorbike radiator and 10inch fan mounted outside. On top of the chiller to use less power and heat down to ambient.

What im saying here is either commit to ambient or sub ambient your half measures will disappoint you.


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## skupples

there's a new gen of coolers coming with refrigerant inside of them, instead of just water for wicking. 

linus reviewed it recently, seems legit.


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## newls1

toolmaker03 said:


> well in truth I am trying to talk you out of this, as I realized what your intensions are. I have run a old swiftech TEC CPU chiller, and phase change CPU cooler years ago. all extreme cooling systems can cause condensation, and I lost both of my earlier systems to condensation. no one wants to burn up a $2000 dollar PC, just because they wanted to play around with extreme cooling. I would hate to see you destroy a system, because of inadequate insolation on the mother board, and around the CPU socket. the ambient temp of your room in most cases is not the ambient temp inside the case. it is the temp around the components, inside the case, that will matter when it comes to dew point, and condensation, occurring inside the case.
> 
> 
> this was basically what I did with my phase change and both our systems died from condensation. it is harder to do right than the instructions will lead you to think.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0B0Dli-1g
> 
> 
> this is what I fear will happen, with your simple idea of just cooling the water.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMtvEbD2MQo


thank you toolmaker.. I am taking your advice and have put this project on back burner... ive decided to change up my waterloop first with new block, more rad, and d5's in serial to see if there is an improvement. after i find such results, i shall see where im at and make decision from that point.


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## Hydroplane

Dimebagg said:


> the hc300 is a tiny chiller. You will be disappointed. Might aswell just stick with ambient honestly. i run a hc1000a on a 7980xe pulling 600w. Running temps at 1c i still see 60c+ so the 300a is a joke. Stay ambient or fully commit to a proper chiller. (single 2080ti)
> 
> However for day to day i run 10c on the chiller to keep away from dew forming in my case.
> Or when im feeling lazy i have the loop also attached to a Motorbike radiator and 10inch fan mounted outside. On top of the chiller to use less power and heat down to ambient.
> 
> What im saying here is either commit to ambient or sub ambient your half measures will disappoint you.


This is probably more due to the heat density of the 7980XE (600W in less than a 1 square inch area). No matter the liquid temp it is a challenge to transfer that much heat from the die through the thermal paste, then through the IHS and more thermal paste if not direct die, then into the water block. That is what I have experienced with my 7980XE. Though, for every 10c reduction in water temp, I'd see a 10c reduction in CPU temp, so it does help somewhat.


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## toolmaker03

Hydroplane said:


> This is probably more due to the heat density of the 7980XE (600W in less than a 1 square inch area). No matter the liquid temp it is a challenge to transfer that much heat from the die through the thermal paste, then through the IHS and more thermal paste if not direct die, then into the water block. That is what I have experienced with my 7980XE. Though, for every 10c reduction in water temp, I'd see a 10c reduction in CPU temp, so it does help somewhat.



this is also compounded by the design of the water blocks as well. most standard CPU water blocks are not designed to handle anything over about 500 watts. I had to keep upgrading my blocks until I got the TR4 water blocks from bitspower, these where just able to handle 700 watts, and they are maxed at 700 watts. the XSPC TR4 and the heat killer TR4 are the only water blocks that can handle over 700 watts. the rest of the TR4 water blocks are crap in my opinion. as they can not handle the amount of heat those CPU's can put out.


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## Hydroplane

toolmaker03 said:


> this is also compounded by the design of the water blocks as well. most standard CPU water blocks are not designed to handle anything over about 500 watts. I had to keep upgrading my blocks until I got the TR4 water blocks from bitspower, these where just able to handle 700 watts, and they are maxed at 700 watts. the XSPC TR4 and the heat killer TR4 are the only water blocks that can handle over 700 watts. the rest of the TR4 water blocks are crap in my opinion. as they can not handle the amount of heat those CPU's can put out.


The surface area of TR4 probably helps as well :thumb:


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## toolmaker03

Hydroplane said:


> The surface area of TR4 probably helps as well :thumb:


 
yea, I don't understand what intel was thinking unless they never expected people to over clock those processors. they have basically created a situation that requires the user to use phase change, or chilled water, to keep these CPU's cool when over clocked.


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## toolmaker03

newls1 said:


> thank you toolmaker.. I am taking your advice and have put this project on back burner... ive decided to change up my waterloop first with new block, more rad, and d5's in serial to see if there is an improvement. after i find such results, i shall see where im at and make decision from that point.


 
what I would suggest is looking into how to build a chill box for your system. this is the best option for extreme cooling, of any type. it is not cheap, but not that expensive. a good chill box could be built for around $500. this does not include the cooling, this is just the box, and all the parts needed to make one.


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## Veltri

Just poking my head into this one, OP. You are right to backburner this plan. The commercial units are disappointing at best. You could alternatively build a custom chiller to get some real low temps but it's big project and none of your off-the-shelf components will work. You need a better pump like those made by Iwaki, a full copper water block with no O-rings, automotive fuel line or hard copper for your hoses, and few other bits and pieces. It's no small project. I can say that because I've done it. That said, it's pretty rewarding. I've just restarted my build that I put on the shelf a while back and should be reporting back in a few weeks.


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## Hydroplane

Veltri said:


> Just poking my head into this one, OP. You are right to backburner this plan. The commercial units are disappointing at best. You could alternatively build a custom chiller to get some real low temps but it's big project and none of your off-the-shelf components will work. You need a better pump like those made by Iwaki, a full copper water block with no O-rings, automotive fuel line or hard copper for your hoses, and few other bits and pieces. It's no small project. I can say that because I've done it. That said, it's pretty rewarding. I've just restarted my build that I put on the shelf a while back and should be reporting back in a few weeks.


IMO that is overstating the difficulty. The higher end fishtank chillers have capacities similar to a window AC unit (1/2hp for hc500, 1hp for hc1000, 2hp for hc2000). By design, the controller limits them to 4c lowest. But that can be bypassed easily with a jumper and they will run as low as they can go, ultimately limited by refrigerant (R22 evaporates around -40C, R134A at -26C so it's not as good). Temps won't get that low, but I've seen as low as -30C with an R22 1/2hp chiller . I just use a crappy XSPC X4 water pump, so far the alcohol hasn't damaged it. For either glycol, yes a stronger pump is likely needed as its viscosity gets high at low temps. Part of why I use an alcohol/water mix instead. A metal waterblock is needed, I use a nickel block. The acrylic ones can crack at extreme low temps, thing is, no one knows exactly what temp that would occur at. The concern with o-rings is that alcohol could degrade them, but I haven't failed any off-the-shelf ones with it yet. There are o-rings out there that are alcohol compatible. Glycol should be okay with standard rubber o-rings.

For use at any temp above 32F/0C in which normal water is used, regular PC watercooling parts work perfectly fine. Just have to beware of condensation.


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## toolmaker03

Hydroplane said:


> For either glycol, yes a stronger pump is likely needed as its viscosity gets high at low temps. Part of why I use an alcohol/water mix instead. A metal waterblock is needed, I use a nickel block. The acrylic ones can crack at extreme low temps, thing is, no one knows exactly what temp that would occur at. The concern with o-rings is that alcohol could degrade them, but I haven't failed any off-the-shelf ones with it yet. There are o-rings out there that are alcohol compatible. Glycol should be okay with standard rubber o-rings.



as for coolant I have done some extensive testing of this down to -27C with over 20 different products. what I ended up using was Prestone anticongelante antifreeze. the reason I decided on this product is because it had the least amount of thickening, among all the products I tested. at a 40% anticongelant antifreeze, 60% distilled water mix. I was still able to use regular D5 pumps, to move the coolant all the way down to -18C.


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## Hydroplane

toolmaker03 said:


> as for coolant I have done some extensive testing of this down to -27C with over 20 different products. what I ended up using was Prestone anticongelante antifreeze. the reason I decided on this product is because it had the least amount of thickening, among all the products I tested. at a 40% anticongelant antifreeze, 60% distilled water mix. I was still able to use regular D5 pumps, to move the coolant all the way down to -18C.


Is the Prestone ethylene glycol based? I know propylene glycol gets very thick at low temps. I don't think ethylene glycol is as bad, but still noticeable. Now alcohols should stay very thin, only problem is they evaporate easily :thumb:


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## toolmaker03

Hydroplane said:


> Is the Prestone ethylene glycol based? I know propylene glycol gets very thick at low temps. I don't think ethylene glycol is as bad, but still noticeable. Now alcohols should stay very thin, only problem is they evaporate easily :thumb:


 
yes it is ethylene glycol based, but it has a anticongelant added to the mix. this is what I call Prestones special sauce, as none of the others I tested, stayed as thin of a liquid at -27C.


the issue with alcohol based products is acrylic, to many water blocks for the GPU are acrylic today. water cool still makes the heat killer GPU water blocks, so extreme cooling still has them for some great products. I myself almost went with a methanol based coolant, than I found the anticongelant, prestone antifreeze.


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## Veltri

Hydroplane said:


> IMO that is overstating the difficulty. The higher end fishtank chillers have capacities similar to a window AC unit (1/2hp for hc500, 1hp for hc1000, 2hp for hc2000). By design, the controller limits them to 4c lowest. But that can be bypassed easily with a jumper and they will run as low as they can go, ultimately limited by refrigerant (R22 evaporates around -40C, R134A at -26C so it's not as good). Temps won't get that low, but I've seen as low as -30C with an R22 1/2hp chiller . I just use a crappy XSPC X4 water pump, so far the alcohol hasn't damaged it. For either glycol, yes a stronger pump is likely needed as its viscosity gets high at low temps. Part of why I use an alcohol/water mix instead. A metal waterblock is needed, I use a nickel block. The acrylic ones can crack at extreme low temps, thing is, no one knows exactly what temp that would occur at. The concern with o-rings is that alcohol could degrade them, but I haven't failed any off-the-shelf ones with it yet. There are o-rings out there that are alcohol compatible. Glycol should be okay with standard rubber o-rings.
> 
> For use at any temp above 32F/0C in which normal water is used, regular PC watercooling parts work perfectly fine. Just have to beware of condensation.


Maybe you're right. I was thinking in terms of a build, rather than an off-the-shelf rig, which, admittedly, is what OP is describing. I went off topic a bit. In either case I wouldn't run conventional watercooling parts. It's not so much about O rings or acetal failing but more about differential material contractions under low temperatures causing leaks. It's easy enough, for instance, to make a solid waterblock out of an Enzotech northbridge heatsink.

Sure you can buy a chiller and jumper the thermostat but it's not rated for a 100% duty cycle. So you either need to chill down a huge reservoir and then have your session or torture the compressor. Even then, you have a ~$600 chiller that's running around -30. You can get a nice used 1/2hp recip condensing unit, brazed plate HX, a TXV, and a good pump (not an Iwaki) for that much. Put some 507 or even 290 in it and then you're really kicking ass.

I agree with you on the alcohol. Glycol stuff seems like an intuitive choice but it really not the right choice.


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## Puck

I used a mix of grain alcohol and distilled in my chiller loop since I was focused on performance. Very thin and easy to maintain flow rate, but evaporation and leaks are a huge issue. Mine ended up leaking at a fitting which caused the res to dry out, and since they were cooling not only the CPU but a 400w TEC on top it literally boiled the coolant in the block, melted a tube, and popped. Luckily the res was pretty much empty by then so there was minimal actual coolant on the board which was already insulated so I was super lucky and didn't lose any hardware. I'd still run it now if it was strong enough to run as a cascade and cool my TEC block+ CPU like I did before.

Honestly no chiller is really the best for a true daily computer. My brand new Ryzen system already took two baths in under a month, both my fault from being careless - but that goes to show how easy it is to mess up when it still happens after many years of experience. Luckily no hardware loss even with the last occurrence literally filling the socket with water from condensation when I pulled the CPU to dry it out lol.


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## Hydroplane

Veltri said:


> Maybe you're right. I was thinking in terms of a build, rather than an off-the-shelf rig, which, admittedly, is what OP is describing. I went off topic a bit. In either case I wouldn't run conventional watercooling parts. It's not so much about O rings or acetal failing but more about differential material contractions under low temperatures causing leaks. It's easy enough, for instance, to make a solid waterblock out of an Enzotech northbridge heatsink.
> 
> Sure you can buy a chiller and jumper the thermostat but it's not rated for a 100% duty cycle. So you either need to chill down a huge reservoir and then have your session or torture the compressor. Even then, you have a ~$600 chiller that's running around -30. You can get a nice used 1/2hp recip condensing unit, brazed plate HX, a TXV, and a good pump (not an Iwaki) for that much. Put some 507 or even 290 in it and then you're really kicking ass.
> 
> I agree with you on the alcohol. Glycol stuff seems like an intuitive choice but it really not the right choice.


The fishtank chillers are certainly not a bargain. A customized AC unit or a custom build can be a much better deal. My chiller cost me $0 :thumb:



Puck said:


> I used a mix of grain alcohol and distilled in my chiller loop since I was focused on performance. Very thin and easy to maintain flow rate, but evaporation and leaks are a huge issue. Mine ended up leaking at a fitting which caused the res to dry out, and since they were cooling not only the CPU but a 400w TEC on top it literally boiled the coolant in the block, melted a tube, and popped. Luckily the res was pretty much empty by then so there was minimal actual coolant on the board which was already insulated so I was super lucky and didn't lose any hardware. I'd still run it now if it was strong enough to run as a cascade and cool my TEC block+ CPU like I did before.
> 
> Honestly no chiller is really the best for a true daily computer. My brand new Ryzen system already took two baths in under a month, both my fault from being careless - but that goes to show how easy it is to mess up when it still happens after many years of experience. Luckily no hardware loss even with the last occurrence literally filling the socket with water from condensation when I pulled the CPU to dry it out lol.


The evaporation is even more of an issue if you try using methanol... my vision was really blurry the next day LOL


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## Fisbwp283

wow, don't use methanol in an open loop! just switch to ethanol at least, but a closed loops for this is much much safer!


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## Hydroplane

Thermal_Preist said:


> wow, don't use methanol in an open loop! just switch to ethanol at least, but a closed loops for this is much much safer!


True


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