# [OC3D] Ethereum mining has just gotten a lot more difficult / Used GPUs flood the market (Updated)



## BiG StroOnZ

Quote:


> Ethereum mining has hit a new difficult bump, making the mining less profitable with Ethereum mining is getting more difficult, with the value of the currency's value hitting a 50 day low of under $200 and miners reporting a new difficulty spike.
> 
> Today mining communities across the internet have reported a difficulty spike when mining, which is both hitting the value of the currency as some users sell their coin reserves while simultaneously making it more difficult to mine each new Ether coin. Right now reports are claiming that Ether is now 20% harder to mine.
> 
> Right now mining communities across the web are filled with chatter of the incoming "end of mining", which is something that seems increasingly likely if the value of the currency does not stabilise and difficulty of mining continues to increase.


*Source:* https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/ethereum_mining_has_just_gotten_a_lot_more_difficult/1

Update to this thread:
Quote:


> Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price crashes below $150
> 
> Over the past few months, there has been a GPU shortage, forcing the prices of mid-range graphics cards up as cryptocurrency miners from across the world purchased hardware in bulk in search for quick and easy profits.
> 
> This has forced the prices of most modern AMD and certain Nvidia GPUs to skyrocket, but now these GPUs are starting to saturate the used market as more and more Ethereum miners sell up and quit mining. Some other miners are starting to look at other emerging Cryptocurrencies, though it is clear that the hype behind Ethereum is dying down.
> 
> Earlier this week Ethereum's value dropped below $200, as soon as the currency experienced a new difficulty spike, making the currency 20% harder to mine and significantly less profitable. This combined with its decrease in value has made mining Ethereum unprofitable for many miners, especially in regions with higher than average electricity costs.
> 
> Now Ethereum is valued at less than $150, with the currency costing $134.97 at the time of writing, which is less than half of the currency's peak value. The currency has the potential to bounce back, though it is difficult to see the currency go back over £250 in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> On second-hand sales websites like eBay and Gumtree, we have seen a lot of new GPU listing appear in recent days, with plenty of used AMD RX series GPUs appearing over the weekend. More hardware is expected to hit these sites over the coming days as some miners wind down their operations, though many will simply move to a more profitable currency or to invest their computing power into an emerging Cryptocurrency that has the prospect of high values in the future.
> 
> In recent weeks websites like eBay and Gumtree have been relatively bare of GPUs, with this week seeing a huge uptick in the number of new AMD RX listings, though pricing is still sitting well above AMD's MSRP. It is worth noting that we see more GPUs listing appearing in the EU than the US, potentially due to differing electricity costs and other variables that affect the profitability of mining.


*Source 2:*https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/used_gpus_flood_the_market_as_ethereum_s_price_crashes_below_150/1


----------



## Glottis

That's good. Hopefully GPU market will return to normal soon.


----------



## emdea22

nonsense. Sadly the mining will go on for at least a few months.


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## epic1337

the investment cost of GPUs in areas with inflated prices right now far outstrips the profit made from small-scale mining.
at the current difficulty, $400+ GTX1060 would need ~7months to pay itself, and thats without factoring in the power and internet bills.
its even worse off with RX series as they're either out of stock or not available (The store doesn't sell at all), and even if they were you'd find it cheaper to buy a GTX1070.

mining would've been profitable if the price of GPUs weren't inflated.

i somewhat find it hilarious though, GPUs right now are seen as "mining equipments".
i wonder when GPU reviewers would stop using games for their tests and use hash-rates to rate GPUs instead.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle*
> 
> 1) It's a neat concept, but it is extremely inefficient. It's also a rather arbitrary thing to "embrace" unless the implication is that you mean you don't understand why people wouldn't want to mine. I don't mine because of two contributing factors: all of the software is shady and it doesn't really add anything of value to the economy. It's essentially a computational pyramid scheme.


indeed, besides a handful of truly beneficial cryptocurrencies, a lot of the others are scarily similar to pump-&-dump, ponzi or pyramid schemes.


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## prjindigo

Most people don't "upgrade every two years" they upgrade when a game they want to play won't run anymore or they get a lump of money or their card fails and they can swing it or when they build a new system.

The 580 series has been out for approximately *four months* now.


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## ZealotKi11er

If people are smart they should start selling cards especially RX card before their price plummets.


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## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> If people are smart they should start selling cards especially RX card before their price plummets.


It already has been on a steadfast decline for the past month.


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## TUFinside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> what do you mean by the last part?
> 
> i'm gonna throw in my opinion, might as well, there will be some cheap mined cards on ebay and co, but i believe majority of the miners will simply switch to another coin like zcash( which is backed by jp morgan) or monero ( which is preferred by darkweb) eitherway i don't see this mining phase going away for awhile, but hey at least miners are not buying up 1080, vega, or 1080 ti for that matter


Well, i'm just asking, who really benefit from such a system ? I think our economy based on speculation is idiotic and always lead to catastrophic events, sooner or later. I'm still hoping for us to return to an economy based on reality, not speculation, at least to a certain extent. Speculation is driving people crazy and exacerbate greed.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUFinside*
> 
> Well, i'm just asking, who really benefit from such a system ? I think our economy based on speculation is idiotic and always lead to catastrophic events, sooner or later. I'm still hoping for us to return to an economy based on reality, not speculation, at least to a certain extent. Speculation is driving people crazy and exacerbate greed.


2nd or 3rd world countries where their native currencies fluctuate as much as cryto if not worse, case example would be vanazuela. their currency is worth crap now due to unstable government and crap economy. having a alternative currency like bitcoin or ether is a very feasible idea.

if you try sending money from U.S to iran or any other countries you have to pay a middle man's fee, sometimes multiple middle mens' fee. the idea of crytocurrency eliminate that problem.

another example of blockchain technology is the benefit of streamlining the economy, when you purchase a cup of coffee with a credit card or debit, you don't simply just hand over the money, you basically send a signal to the bank that a transaction has occurred, then the bank put you on a debit and a credit ledger and proceed the transaction at a later time, you don't think your paying a fee since the price you paid for your coffee is the price shows up on ur statement at the end of the month, but the merchant is the one bearing the burden of paying your fee for using the credit service. and to cover their loss they charge your cup of coffee at a higher rate. thus in the end you're still paying for that fee one way or another. the blockchain technology eliminates this middle man service. thats why if you go to chinatown in new york, nearly most of the Chinese or asian restaurants do not accept credit card since they want to keep their price low and don't want to artificially inflate their price to cover for the transaction fee.


----------



## TUFinside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> 2nd or 3rd world countries where their native currencies fluctuate as much as cryto if not worse, case example would be vanazuela. their currency is worth crap now due to unstable government and crap economy. having a alternative currency like bitcoin or ether is a very feasible idea.
> 
> if you try sending money from U.S to iran or any other countries you have to pay a middle man's fee, sometimes multiple middle mens' fee. the idea of crytocurrency eliminate that problem.
> 
> another example of blockchain technology is the benefit of streamlining the economy, when you purchase a cup of coffee with a credit card or debit, you don't simply just hand over the money, you basically send a signal to the bank that a transaction has occurred, then the bank put you on a debit and a credit ledger and proceed the transaction at a later time, you don't think your paying a fee since the price you paid for your coffee is the price shows up on ur statement at the end of the month, but the merchant is the one bearing the burden of paying your fee for using the credit service. and to cover their loss they charge your cup of coffee at a higher rate. thus in the end you're still paying for that fee one way or another. the blockchain technology eliminates this middle man service. thats why if you go to chinatown in new york, nearly most of the Chinese or asian restaurants do not accept credit card since they want to keep their price low and don't want to artificially inflate their price to cover for the transaction fee.


Thank you, these are interesting elements to think about this. +rep


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> my statement was purely a fact, you're the one who skipped reading the entire line then insulted me first.


i think we should all cool it and take a step back, crytocurrency has huge potential to disrupt many fields of common inefficiency. the fundamental basic for banking haven't changed for the last 500 years, despite making ways of paying and recieving easier with technology, its still based on the credit/debit table. this inefficient method has been the status quo for way to long and now the banks are too big to fail. the cryto industry, if people are educated properly and understand the technology, will be a huge boost to mankind. by removing the human input needed to proceed with a transaction, the economy will not be harmed by human errors which could lead to fraud, inconsistency, and other negligent error that wouldn't be possible with the blockchain technology.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUFinside*
> 
> Stop acting like economics is a science, it's not.


actually this is a good debate topic.

economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
now the question is, is any of the three related to science?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> i think we should all cool it and take a step back, crytocurrency has huge potential to disrupt many fields of common inefficiency. the fundamental basic for banking haven't changed for the last 500 years, despite making ways of paying and recieving easier with technology, its still based on the credit/debit table. this inefficient method has been the status quo for way to long and now the banks are too big to fail. the cryto industry, if people are educated properly and understand the technology, will be a huge boost to mankind. by removing the human input needed to proceed with a transaction, the economy will not be harmed by human errors which could lead to fraud, inconsistency, and other negligent error that wouldn't be possible with the blockchain technology.


theres a problem though, cryptocurrency is designed by humans, and regardless of how flexible cryptocurrency is as a whole, there would still be loopholes in the entire system.
one of it is the "monopoly issue" of the blockchain workload, where if one group ends up with more than 50% of the total hashrate they'd end up having the power to manipulate block distribution.

and take the altcoins for example, they're riding on the popularity of those major cryptocoins like bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum and such, but a lot of them are suspiciously a scam.
thankfully theres a few websites which keeps track of these "scam-like" cryptocoins.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> actually this is a good debate topic.
> 
> economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
> now the question is, is any of the three related to science?


actually there, under the ethereum umbrella, there is a token system reserved for scientist the system pays out to the science community for scientific contributions. i may be very wrong on how the distribution works since i'm not a scientist and therefore i don't really pay attention to this token.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> actually this is a good debate topic.
> 
> economics is part math, part psychology and part politics.
> now the question is, is any of the three related to science?
> theres a problem though, cryptocurrency is designed by humans, and regardless of how flexible cryptocurrency is as a whole, there would still be loopholes in the entire system.
> 
> take the altcoins for example, they're riding on the popularity of those major cryptocoins like bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum and such, but a lot of them are suspiciously a scam.
> thankfuly theres a few websites which keeps track of these "scam-like" cryptocoins.


well ofcourse there are alot if ICO thats just out there to ride to coattail of more established currencies. but that doesn't mean crytocurrency in general is a scam. if you do your due diligence and understand the fundamental of what exist already and what works already, then you should be pretty scam proof, its these individuals who are looking for a quick pump and dump on the newest ICO have the most risk since they have no appreciation for the underline value of the potential new technology a ICO have.


----------



## assaulth3ro911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emdea22*
> 
> I did embrace it till it got controlled by the US govt somewhere around the time when LTC asics first came out.
> 
> I was going to buy a 1080 or 1080ti to upgrade my RX 480 8GB a month ago. Sadly here in Romania everything is sold out or EXTREMELY overpriced and i personally know more people who can't upgrade because of it - and yes - most of us were waiting for vega until we realized its a room heater.
> 
> Btw i have no problems with normal people and mining, my problem is with the bloody scammers that started companies based on lies tricking people into paying them money so they can buy thousands of GPUs and keep most of the profit for themselves. And these are the ones also responsible for the price fluctuations because they mine and dump. Dont assume people are ignorant just because they dont like whats happening with the mining craze right now.


How did it come under control? I thought that the blockchain works in such a way to prevent that.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> well ofcourse there are alot if ICO thats just out there to ride to coattail of more established currencies. but that doesn't mean crytocurrency in general is a scam. if you do your due diligence and understand the fundamental of what exist already and what works already, then you should be pretty scam proof, its these individuals who are looking for a quick pump and dump on the newest ICO have the most risk since they have no appreciation for the underline value of the potential new technology a ICO have.


thats why there should be considerations with regards to those scams.
just wantonly saying "cryptocoin can earn you a lot" would cause those other clueless people to go about it without even knowing what they're doing.

at the very least, nobody should state that cryptocurrency mining is very profitable, when its clearly easier said than done.
just think of the investment cost alone, who'd be able to afford that many GPUs, specially when the current prices are inflated.

i mean, because of these people who keeps spreading that, my friend in particular got into it with just a single GPU to boot.
he wouldn't believe me that he won't be earning much, if at all, he only stopped one month later after he saw his tripled electricity bill.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *assaulth3ro911*
> 
> How did it come under control? I thought that the blockchain works in such a way to prevent that.


laws that prevented transactions, or a heavy tax on top of it.


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## infranoia

Was unfortunate enough to build LiteCoin on the WeMineLTC pool back in the day with my dual 5850's. I had cashed out most of it into my wallet, but when they disappeared without a trace it took all the desire I had to mine right out of me.

As far as risks go, there is zero oversight, zero recourse and zero consumer protection. It's the wild west all over again.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> thats why there should be considerations with regards to those scams.
> just wantonly saying "cryptocoin can earn you a lot" would cause those other clueless people to go about it without even knowing what they're doing.
> 
> at the very least, nobody should state that cryptocurrency mining is very profitable, when its clearly easier said than done.
> just think of the investment cost alone, who'd be able to afford that many GPUs, specially when the current prices are inflated.
> 
> i mean, because of these people who keeps spreading that, my friend in particular got into it with just a single GPU to boot.
> he wouldn't believe me that he won't be earning much, if at all, he only stopped one month later after he saw his tripled electricity bill.
> laws that prevented transactions, or a heavy tax on top of it.


well it was very profitable up until a couple of weeks ago. back in may/june the value of one ether was 380 dollars, to get one ether in a month you need 2 1070 or 2 rx 580 or 480. since at the time the 1070 was going for 320-350 range, the cards pay for itself within 2 month period. the profitability dropped when people start catching on what is going on, and thus the hype began, thus blowing up the currency to a new high thats extremely unsustainable. right now because of the influence of alphabay(darknet's ebay) we got couple of cryto holding pablo escabors dumping their furtunes of coins on the market and thus flooding the market and dropping the value of the coins.

all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,


----------



## Quantium40

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,


In a way, I think crypto may be hedging against government disruption. When India locks down cash, governments willfully devalue currency, crypto goes up. In this day and age of tin-pot dictators (or maybe any age), its an interesting gamble. Of course, also therefore a potential threat to governments, which introduces big risk.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Quantium40*
> 
> In a way, I think crypto may be hedging against government disruption. When India locks down cash, governments willfully devalue currency, crypto goes up. In this day and age of tin-pot dictators (or maybe any age), its an interesting gamble. Of course, also therefore a potential threat to governments, which introduces big risk.


you are absolutely correct, crytocurrencies operates on blockchain which allow we the people as ledger holders, this is untamable, uncountable, and un-inflatable by the government or any other institution. in today's world of shady governments around the world, and bullish stock market, cryto currencies holds a special place in currency stability even given how unstable the market it might seen right now.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> well it was very profitable up until a couple of weeks ago. back in may/june the value of one ether was 380 dollars, to get one ether in a month you need 2 1070 or 2 rx 580 or 480. since at the time the 1070 was going for 320-350 range, the cards pay for itself within 2 month period. the profitability dropped when people start catching on what is going on, and thus the hype began, thus blowing up the currency to a new high thats extremely unsustainable. right now because of the influence of alphabay(darknet's ebay) we got couple of cryto holding pablo escabors dumping their furtunes of coins on the market and thus flooding the market and dropping the value of the coins.
> 
> all in all the cryto market is the same as the stock market, it goes up it will come down, it goes down it will come back up, the fundamental technology behind cryto is solid, the principle of allowing the public to be the ledgers instead of few individuals in a bank or government will disrupt the status quo. this is the next big thing as the internet was in the 90s,


yes the payback takes 2~3months back in may~june, but thats not a guarantee though, difficulty rises as more miners enter plus coin prices fluctuates as well.

take the current situation as an example, if you bought your card back in may you'd only have mined about 70% the worth of your GPU and still have a month more before it pays itself, thats a total of 4months.
its even worse if you hadn't cashed out when ETH was still at ~$380, the total worth of the coins you mined back in may would still require you to mine 3 months more, thats a total of 6months.
and if you start right now it'll take 20% longer to pay itself back due to the difficulty rise, thats roughly 7months, and this is while not considering whats to happen 2~3months from now.


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## lombardsoup

Waiting for August 1st SegWit implementation. If prices don't stabilize then you're going to see a lot more mass selloffs.


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## rbarrett96

Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards

So you care a little bit then.


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## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rbarrett96*
> 
> Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards
> 
> So you care a little bit then.


I meant I couldn't care at all







it's like saying I can't buy running shoes because I'm not a runner. Makes no sense. Graphics cards are out there for anyone who wants one. Except if you want one right now... you're going to get gouged... haha







don't blame the miners though! Blame the suppliers and retailers... they don't have to jack up the prices, do they?


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## Imglidinhere

Yes, link someone in romania a website that only ships cards to the united states... that's a smart, HELPFUL plan.









Completely alleviates the issue that GPUs are out of stock everywhere because someone wanted to utilize the raw data crunching power of a couple THOUSAND sub-$200 GPUs to make free money. Yeah that sounds totally fine.









Should definitely learn when your argument is bad and your reasoning is worse. It might help keeping off the rest of the masses when they ALL come after you and call you out.


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## kckyle

i dont think its fair to blame the average joe miner for the gpu shortage, you guys should really be blaming these large server farms like genesis mining who purchases straight from the suppliers with 10k or 20k of gpu orders.


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## Philliesfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilareon*
> 
> Take it how you want it. There are a BOAT load of threads on this forum recently regarding cryptocurrency and MANY people are spreading misinformation and I'm just not going to sit back and tolerate it. If you can't handle it, it's your choice to converse with me.
> 
> Educate yourself on a topic before you make damning statements with sincerity.


This whole forum is just one big Dunn and Kruger experiment, and although I agree with 90% of what you said, I feel that you can contribute with out being so jaded







. The interwebz is full of ridiculousness, don't let the faulty minds of others effect the way you communicate. You seem like a smart person, and your post have been quite informative for me, just remember that you can catch more flies with honey rather then vinegar.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> i dont think its fair to blame the average joe miner for the gpu shortage, you guys should really be blaming these large server farms like genesis mining who purchases straight from the suppliers with 10k or 20k of gpu orders.


i kind of agree, the local retailers i've asked said that shipments are currently onhold, seems like their delivery is held way back.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> i dont think its fair to blame the average joe miner for the gpu shortage, you guys should really be blaming these large server farms like genesis mining who purchases straight from the suppliers with 10k or 20k of gpu orders.


Regardless of how many GPUs these people buy, if you openly bought a single card explicitly for mining, you're robbing someone else of their potential good times. It may be LESS impactful, and obviously it is, but it's less a matter of something as casual as [email protected], where you have people here and there throughout the years and more a matter of it completely upsetting the market and stopping all potential gamer-build sales completely unless you want to go for entry-level or Enthusiast ONLY. There is no middleground. It's making headline news AROUND THE PLANET.


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## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> i dont think its fair to blame the average joe miner for the gpu shortage, you guys should really be blaming these large server farms like genesis mining who purchases straight from the suppliers with 10k or 20k of gpu orders.


The problem is not even there. Like everyone else the worse type of people are price gougers.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Yes, link someone in romania a website that only ships cards to the united states... that's a smart, HELPFUL plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Completely alleviates the issue that GPUs are out of stock everywhere because someone wanted to utilize the raw data crunching power of a couple THOUSAND sub-$200 GPUs to make free money. Yeah that sounds totally fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should definitely learn when your argument is bad and your reasoning is worse. It might help keeping off the rest of the masses when they ALL come after you and call you out.


Hi bud, did you read my statement, I said I know you're in Romania, but here is a link to newegg. I acknowledge that he wouldn't be able to purchase the card. My point was is that these cards can be obtained for a normal price.

GPU stock problems are not the problems of consumers, they're the problem of suppliers and retailers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The problem is not even there. Like everyone else the worse type of people are price gougers.


If by this you mean the people who are purchasing for the sole purpose of selling at a higher price, then yes I totally agree.


----------



## Ghoxt

While ETH has a focus now, I do echo what someone mentioned earlier, Mining is going nowhere. There's too many crypto currencies and those that mine are not in Love with any one of them. If one starts to be less profitable, another will rise in it's place. BTC is not the only game in town as much as it was back when it crashed years ago.

And yes I expect this is a Paradigm Shift for GPU's. Someone wants the available stock more than gamer's and are willing to pay for it. AMD / AIB's will not lose sleep on a Sold Out condition. They have noted the peripheral sales slump for items Miners won't need, and will pivot accordingly.

OT:

If Vega successfully launched right now and was fully Available for consumers to buy with no difficulties, had a great price etc, what Launch Game would Gamers flock to use it with? Beuller? Umm...Yeah. We can bench it, and play older games we have played through 3-5 times already but something is missing here. Hey lets play ROTR, & Doom, Watch Dogs II, Witcher 3 once again with 10 more FPS...

Stunning I know. IMO the planets have not aligned. If Star Citizen was actually Publicly Releasing", it "Might" be a opportune moment. But "The Duke" is not ready yet...


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> While ETH has a focus now, I do echo what someone mentioned earlier, Mining is going nowhere. There's too many crypto currencies and those that mine are not in Love with any one of them. If one starts to be less profitable, another will rise in it's place. BTC is not the only game in town as much as it was back when it crashed years ago.
> 
> And yes I expect this is a Paradigm Shift for GPU's. Someone wants the available stock more than gamer's and are willing to pay for it. AMD / AIB's will not lose sleep on a Sold Out condition. They have noted the peripheral sales slump for items Miners won't need, and will pivot accordingly.
> 
> OT:
> If Vega successfully launched right now and was fully Available for consumers to buy with no difficulties, had a great price etc, what Launch Game would Gamers flock to use it with? Beuller? Umm...Yeah. We can bench it, and play older games we have played through 3-5 times already but something is missing here. Hey lets play ROTR, & Doom, Watch Dogs II, Witcher 3 once again with 10 more FPS...
> 
> Stunning I know. IMO the planets have not aligned. If Star Citizen was actually Publicly Releasing", it "Might" be a opportune moment. But "The Duke" is not ready yet...


It does not work like that. Only the biggest coins matter. You can mine other stuff sure but the point of mining is either make a lot of money faster like in May/June or mine in hope that the price increases and these price increases are mostly for the biggest coins.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philliesfan*
> 
> This whole forum is just one big Dunn and Kruger experiment, and although I agree with 90% of what you said, I feel that you can contribute with out being so jaded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The interwebz is full of ridiculousness, don't let the faulty minds of others effect the way you communicate. You seem like a smart person, and your post have been quite informative for me, just remember that you can catch more flies with honey rather then vinegar.


True, but I'm tilted rn and have been for days... I got plenty of rep from this thread today... I got my boys backing me they're just the silent majority that's all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Regardless of how many GPUs these people buy, if you openly bought a single card explicitly for mining, you're robbing someone else of their potential good times. It may be LESS impactful, and obviously it is, but it's less a matter of something as casual as [email protected], where you have people here and there throughout the years and more a matter of it completely upsetting the market and stopping all potential gamer-build sales completely unless you want to go for entry-level or Enthusiast ONLY. There is no middleground. It's making headline news AROUND THE PLANET.


Graphics cards are not just for gamers, or miners... they're for anyone with a use case for one. Why do you think gamers are so entitled to graphics cards?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> While ETH has a focus now, I do echo what someone mentioned earlier, Mining is going nowhere. There's too many crypto currencies and those that mine are not in Love with any one of them. If one starts to be less profitable, another will rise in it's place. BTC is not the only game in town as much as it was back when it crashed years ago.
> 
> And yes I expect this is a Paradigm Shift for GPU's. Someone wants the available stock more than gamer's and are willing to pay for it. AMD / AIB's will not lose sleep on a Sold Out condition. They have noted the peripheral sales slump for items Miners won't need, and will pivot accordingly.
> 
> OT:
> If Vega successfully launched right now and was fully Available for consumers to buy with no difficulties, had a great price etc, what Launch Game would Gamers flock to use it with? Beuller? Umm...Yeah. We can bench it, and play older games we have played through 3-5 times already but something is missing here. Hey lets play ROTR, & Doom, Watch Dogs II, Witcher 3 once again with 10 more FPS...
> 
> Stunning I know. IMO the planets have not aligned. If Star Citizen was actually Publicly Releasing", it "Might" be a opportune moment. But "The Duke" is not ready yet...


You don't even need miners for blockchain to exsist. Ripple for example is a coin that cannot be mined, did you know that was possible? It relies on the people who use the blockchain to host it, such has banks and large corporations.... and or the ones that would be using the Ripple blockchain for what it's designed for, large international payment transfers...

Read about them, https:\\www.ripple.com


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> It does not work like that. Only the biggest coins matter. You can mine other stuff sure but the point of mining is either make a lot of money faster like in May/June or mine in hope that the price increases and these price increases are mostly for the biggest coins.


Touche' You do have a good point. Comparing Market Cap alone, with the 10's of Billions in Market cap in BTC & ETH combined, I could see some massive difficulties arising if BTC / ETH dropped considerably even to other currencies.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> You are particularly nasty and toxic. You started the bashing and act like a victim. Quit it.
> 
> It's perfectly reasonable for people to want the gpu market to return to normal. Yes, the market is a mess right now.


I do have a problem with people wanting to buy RX cards especially. They have been on stock for over a year and gamers bought mostly 10 series card and now that they have some value people suddenly want RX cards. This is very much pointed towards gamers. RX 580/570 was looked down on launch and gamers did not care at all about these cards.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Regardless of how many GPUs these people buy, if you openly bought a single card explicitly for mining, you're robbing someone else of their potential good times. It may be LESS impactful, and obviously it is, but it's less a matter of something as casual as [email protected], where you have people here and there throughout the years and more a matter of it completely upsetting the market and stopping all potential gamer-build sales completely unless you want to go for entry-level or Enthusiast ONLY. There is no middleground. It's making headline news AROUND THE PLANET.


your statement is quite entitled. if the buyer wants to purchase the card for mining its his business. graphic cards have came a long way and are not just for gamers anymore but other applications as well, such as folding and boinc and other research applications. mining is just the latest trend. the focus issue here is these individuals buying up hundreds of cards from suppliers that doesn't have a order limit, these are the people to be blaming not your average joe buying 6 cards for one mining rig.

no one gave a damn about rx 580 when it came out cause its basically a rehashed 480 but as soon as miners start buying them up then nope all the gamers start crying about it. how does that work? its like complaining about a girl that got into a relationship but you didn't make a move when she was single.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> your statement is quite entitled. if the buyer wants to purchase the card for mining its his business. graphic cards have came a long way and are not just for gamers anymore but other applications as well, such as folding and boinc and other research applications. mining is just the latest trend. the focus issue here is these individuals buying up hundreds of cards from suppliers that doesn't have a order limit, these are the people to be blaming not your average joe buying 6 cards for one mining rig.
> 
> no one gave a damn about rx 580 when it came out cause its basically a rehashed 480 but as soon as miners start buying them up then nope all the gamers start crying about it. how does that work? its like complaining about a girl that got into a relationship but you didn't make a move when she was single.


People are mostly complaining because 1 guy got 10 girls







. 1-2 cards extra is not a problem here.


----------



## SpykeZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> That's good. Hopefully GPU market will return to normal soon.


This. I hope all these hippos that bought up all these cards see this cryptocurrency hit a brick wall and they're left with things of dollars of hardware they have to sell at a fraction of the price just to make some money back. Trying to build a computer for my customers has me telling them to wait until eggs crap dies down which eats into my wallet.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Look at me im moving potatoes from one side of the room to the other side, and when im done ill move them back to where I started.
The whole mining thing is a joke, spending energy on doing exactly nothing. Printing money.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> People are mostly complaining because 1 guy got 10 girls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 1-2 cards extra is not a problem here.


exactly, so therefore ppl are barking up the wrong tree here, thats the point i'm trying to make, that people who buy 6 cards or so shouldn't be blame for the shortage, its these large scale mining farm where they have 20 rigs running of hydro power in iceland.


----------



## mr2cam

People thought mining was over when the difficulty in litecoin spiked and GPU mining litecoin wasn't profitable. There is still zcash, ZEN, hush and a ton of other coins out there to mine that are very profitable


----------



## bucdan

The thing about crypto currency is, who actually uses this technology for transactions? It is available, but who is using the blockchain? Besides transferring coins to each private individual. The thing is, with there being hundreds of different coins out there, what makes one's blockchain more desirable and credible than others?

Knowing that a coin is basically dead when it's nearly fully mined, is not very compelling as for being a currency because it's only good for 2 months, especially these alt coins.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Look at me im moving potatoes from one side of the room to the other side, and when im done ill move them back to where I started.
> The whole mining thing is a joke, spending energy on doing exactly nothing. Printing money.


Your loss









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> People thought mining was over when the difficulty in litecoin spiked and GPU mining litecoin wasn't profitable. There is still zcash, ZEN, hush and a ton of other coins out there to mine that are very profitable


Agreed.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> The thing about crypto currency is, who actually uses this technology for transactions? It is available, but who is using the blockchain? Besides transferring coins to each private individual. The thing is, with there being hundreds of different coins out there, what makes one's blockchain more desirable and credible than others?
> 
> Knowing that a coin is basically dead when it's nearly fully mined, is not very compelling as for being a currency because it's only good for 2 months, especially these alt coins.


Take a look at Ripple if you want real world use case for cyrpto currency. There are also many online videos that talk about real world use case.

www.ripple.com

and if you need any more insite on if it's legit or not... Visa is hiring blockchain engineers... https://usa.visa.com/careers/jobdetails.jobid.743999653819658.deptid.934140.html


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> People thought mining was over when the difficulty in litecoin spiked and GPU mining litecoin wasn't profitable. There is still zcash, ZEN, hush and a ton of other coins out there to mine that are very profitable


I don't think anyone can really argue that mining is over.

However, that doesn't exclude the possibility of a flooded used GPU market after Etherium crashes, which is what alot of us here on OCN are anticipating.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> I don't think anyone can really argue that mining is over.
> 
> However, that doesn't exclude the possibility of a flooded used GPU market after Etherium crashes, which is what alot of us here on OCN are anticipating.


And this is the glory of investing, nothing is certain... it's all risky... but to say Ethereum crashed is meh... it's still at a higher price than it was in Feb 2017 so was it really a crash? Or just a minor correction? To each is own.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> I don't have a problem with miners. I have a problem with you.


Too bad :'( I'll be posting until/if I'm banned, and judging by the salt trains I wouldn't be surprised. Like I said, I'm sick and tired of the lack of regard for crypto-enthusiasts and that's why I'm here today.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> The thing about crypto currency is, who actually uses this technology for transactions? It is available, but who is using the blockchain? Besides transferring coins to each private individual. The thing is, with there being hundreds of different coins out there, what makes one's blockchain more desirable and credible than others?
> 
> Knowing that a coin is basically dead when it's nearly fully mined, is not very compelling as for being a currency because it's only good for 2 months, especially these alt coins.


coins don't have a purpose until it has a purpose, right now its still in the process of being accepted by the masses. unfortunately the most use it has right now is the the darknet, where all the transactions are dealt with btc or ether, however with major instutions like jp morgan backing zcash and bitcoin being traded in austrian mail office, the adoption is getting there slowly but surely. right now its still in its infant stage, but give more time more places will open up to the idea of accepting bitcoin as one of its default currency.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> I don't think anyone can really argue that mining is over.
> 
> However, that doesn't exclude the possibility of a flooded used GPU market after Etherium crashes, which is what alot of us here on OCN are anticipating.


cheap used stuff yeah, considering that at least half of those used stuff aren't even half a year old, the shortage only happened a few months back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> People thought mining was over when the difficulty in litecoin spiked and GPU mining litecoin wasn't profitable. There is still zcash, ZEN, hush and a ton of other coins out there to mine that are very profitable


you can't just pick a random cryptocoin and think its gonna be ok, quite a lot of them are suspicious to boot.
even ignoring the suspicious cryptocoins, you'd still need to consider whether the chosen alternative isn't going to collapse (heavily fluctuate) as well.

like someone has mentioned, cryptocoin "investments" are like stocks exchange, not everyone can make an easy profit.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> coins don't have a purpose until it has a purpose, right now its still in the process of being accepted by the masses. unfortunately the most use it has right now is the the darknet, where all the transactions are dealt with btc or ether, however with major instutions like jp morgan backing zcash and bitcoin being traded in austrian mail office, the adoption is getting there slowly but surely. right now its still in its infant stage, but give more time more places will open up to the idea of accepting bitcoin as one of its default currency.


Here is a list of companies that accept bit coin as payment: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-28/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-list-companies-stores-shops

Ton of companies, and some big names like Newegg and Microsoft.

Also, MIT is working with litecoin: http://litecoin.mit.edu/


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> The thing about crypto currency is, who actually uses this technology for transactions? It is available, but who is using the blockchain? Besides transferring coins to each private individual.


Quite a few businesses are in the process of adopting blockchain based networks for various purposes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> The thing is, with there being hundreds of different coins out there, what makes one's blockchain more desirable and credible than others?


Transparent development/documentation, suitability to task, speed of transactions, security, resistance to various sorts of attacks, etc.

A brand new scamcoin is a risk because they tend to be heavily premined with little in the way of credible backing and/or they are prone to being attacked with modest amounts of hashing power.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> Knowing that a coin is basically dead when it's nearly fully mined, is not very compelling as for being a currency because it's only good for 2 months, especially these alt coins.


Cryptos are never fully mined, there are transaction fees and even if there is a fixed number of of currency units that will ever be created, any transaction will require some sort of fee, which goes to miners or stake holders. Difficulty vs. profit will reach equilibrium, there is simply a bit of lag.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilareon*
> 
> Here is a list of companies that accept bit coin as payment: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-28/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-list-companies-stores-shops
> 
> Ton of companies, and some big names like Newegg and Microsoft.


Naughty America - Adult entertainment provider


----------



## bucdan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quite a few businesses are in the process of adopting blockchain based networks for various purposes.
> Transparent development/documentation, suitability to task, speed of transactions, security, resistance to various sorts of attacks, etc.
> 
> A brand new scamcoin is a risk because they tend to be heavily premined with little in the way of credible backing and/or they are prone to being attacked with modest amounts of hashing power.
> Cryptos are never fully mined, there are transaction fees and even if there is a fixed number of of currency units that will ever be created, any transaction will require some sort of fee, which goes to miners or stake holders. Difficulty vs. profit will reach equilibrium, there is simply a bit of lag.


+1 bro.


----------



## Particle

I said that mining software is often shady. Because there is money involved, it is. I said that blockchains are inefficient. They are, and that fundamental problem is a core issue that cryptocurrencies have had to deal with over time. The two concepts are not the same thing, and your response would suggest that you either must be conflating the two or else have failed to comprehend what I initially wrote since either way you're arguing a point I never even asserted--take your pick.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle*
> 
> I said that mining software is often shady. Because there is money involved, it is. I said that blockchains are inefficient. They are, and that fundamental problem is a core issue that cryptocurrencies have had to deal with over time. The two concepts are not the same thing, and your response would suggest that you either must be conflating the two or else have failed to comprehend what I initially wrote since either way you're arguing a point I never even asserted--take your pick.


Incorrect. Blockchains are efficiant and large banking organizations are already looking into implementing this tech. Also anything that has money in it is shady? Weird outlook. Nothing could be farther from the truth. you mine giving no money to anyone, then take your coins and get real money aka fiat. What exactly is the problem there? I love all the crytpo hate when people on a regular who got into this early are now millionaires. Dont be sour.

^Doubtful lol. Simple pic of your OCN name to a degree im sure is hanging on the wall would get rid of any comments. I'll wait patiently....
Here is my creds, software developer for embedded systems in aviation medical devices. I know tech a bit, just a bit. I can tell you exactly what i've already said blockchains are amazing hence why blockchain devs are making a ton of cash and firms looking to hire these individuals asap.

Economists have zero training in this new tech nor experience. i remember all of forbes and others "economists" saying bitcoin was a scam, yet here we are and its already passed 2k mark as well as a huge market cap. lol evidence trumps opinion.


----------



## baalbelphegor

Geez I just want to know more about why Ethereum got harder to mine. Instead this thread is just a bunch of people arguing. Sandiegoeskyline, you didn't really refute any of Nilareon's claims you just kept saying no. I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but both of you are just yelling at each other and throwing ad hominem attacks around.


----------



## d5aqoep

I managed to pick up a Gigabyte 1080Ti OC for $700 a week ago and I believe that to be perfectly fair price. Infact it was much cheaper here in Mumbai. I double checked by installing and running 3D Mark to see if scores were in line with other 1080Ti.

Those looking for cards, they need to hunt hunt and hunt for bargains on the internet. Going to local hardware shop to inquire about stocks can help too. Mine was purchased from local shop and I ignored Amazon/Ebay/Flipkart which were pricing 1080 Ti for $3000.


----------



## Caldeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baalbelphegor*
> 
> Geez I just want to know more about why Ethereum got harder to mine. Instead this thread is just a bunch of people arguing. Sandiegoeskyline, you didn't really refute any of Nilareon's claims you just kept saying no. I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but both of you are just yelling at each other and throwing ad hominem attacks around.


simple, more people mine makes the difficulty go up.

All the new miners are just mining and then selling profits and aren't holding. People say its going to crash makes everyone sell so low prices?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baalbelphegor*
> 
> Geez I just want to know more about why Ethereum got harder to mine. Instead this thread is just a bunch of people arguing. Sandiegoeskyline, you didn't really refute any of Nilareon's claims you just kept saying no. I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but both of you are just yelling at each other and throwing ad hominem attacks around.


It got hard because as more people join the piece of the pie gets smaller and smaller. If the pie does not get more expensive your price will be worth less and less. Around May, Etherium was increasing in price faster than it was increasing in difficulty you you made a lot of money. As soon as mass adoption happened the price did not increase much but diff increased 4x in very short time.


----------



## lombardsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baalbelphegor*
> 
> Geez I just want to know more about why Ethereum got harder to mine. Instead this thread is just a bunch of people arguing. Sandiegoeskyline, you didn't really refute any of Nilareon's claims you just kept saying no. I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but both of you are just yelling at each other and throwing ad hominem attacks around.


Let them have their pissing match, they're just matching streams at this point.

To answer your question: crypto as it is now lacks any real efficacy. SegWit, coming August 1st, is supposed to address this by stripping away and reassigning the validation procedure from each transaction, thereby lessening the impact of large price crashes like those of the past 72 hours. If that doesn't work, you'll see people abandoning crypto in droves.


----------



## Caldeio

how much does a 1070 make right now?


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caldeio*
> 
> how much does a 1070 make right now?


I think its around $6 a day now, but im un-informed.


----------



## Nilareon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caldeio*
> 
> how much does a 1070 make right now?


Single 1070? Not much. Not worth your time I can assure you that. If you want to get in for fun then yeah, but you're look at $3.75 day after electricity... I'm guessing that figure... going by what I make off 1 980ti, but I think the 1070 is vastly better for mining but I'm not 100% don't quote me.


----------



## SystemTech

What a thread. Basically my view is Crypto's are the way of the future, and being De-centralised there is not a single thing any one of us, or the US Goverment can do about it.
The US, as mentioend above, control the majority of the worlds currencies, and all start a long time ago when the gold/cash ratio was broken. The beauty of cryptos, is that new coins/cash cannot just be created out of thin air, on demand, by some controlling entity. All (or atleast the coins i know of and those that are worth a bit) have a limit to mine. Once thats reach, then thats that. no more coins can just be fabricated out of nothing. It locks the value of coins in to the demand for that coin. Even now, Bitcoins success and value is tied into the value people are willing to pay for it. Mining in some way also controls this as new coins are trickled in to the market alot slower than what they were 5 years ago. Hence a BTC being worth > $2000 now days.
We should all be backing the success of cryptos. When I emmigrated to canada last year, the amount of fees that had to be paid to convert and send our money across was stupid and i am doing it now via cryptos because the fees are a tiny fraction. I buy locally at a 1% fee and sell locally at a 1% fee and THATS IT. Stupid banks wanting 10+% to send your $1000 from country A to country B!

As for the GPU environment, yes i sold my 2 x 580s for over $400 each and upgraded to 1070's...who wouldn't.
If a legitimate opportunity exists to get something better for virtually no cost to you, your going to take it right?

As for how much a 1070 makes, it depends largely on the card. I have 4 ASUS OC cards with 0 RAM cooling and they dont OC that well, but sit at about $3/$4 day.
Then i have 2 Zotac AMP Edition cards and these do have VRM cooling and are beasts, hashing 10% faster than the ASUS cards.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Cryptocurrency does not equal mining.


----------



## Quantium40

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SystemTech*
> 
> What a thread. Basically my view is Crypto's are the way of the future, and being De-centralised there is not a single thing any one of us, or the US Goverment can do about it.
> The US, as mentioend above, control the majority of the worlds currencies, and all start a long time ago when the gold/cash ratio was broken. The beauty of cryptos, is that new coins/cash cannot just be created out of thin air, on demand, by some controlling entity. All (or atleast the coins i know of and those that are worth a bit) have a limit to mine. Once thats reach, then thats that. no more coins can just be fabricated out of nothing. It locks the value of coins in to the demand for that coin. Even now, Bitcoins success and value is tied into the value people are willing to pay for it. Mining in some way also controls this as new coins are trickled in to the market alot slower than what they were 5 years ago. Hence a BTC being worth > $2000 now days.
> We should all be backing the success of cryptos. When I emmigrated to canada last year, the amount of fees that had to be paid to convert and send our money across was stupid and i am doing it now via cryptos because the fees are a tiny fraction. I buy locally at a 1% fee and sell locally at a 1% fee and THATS IT. Stupid banks wanting 10+% to send your $1000 from country A to country B!


I think one of the issues Bitcoin is facing is increasing transaction costs (and delays) due to some sort of flaw (not an expert, so don't quote me) with the system. If so, I'm not looking optimistic about Bitcoin, because the ease and low cost of transactions is supposed to be part of what makes Bitcoin worth it to use, buy, and sell.

Technically I guess there is one way a powerful government could shut down cryptos, and we might be headed that way anyhow in the long term - destruction of the internet.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Quantium40*
> 
> I think one of the issues Bitcoin is facing is increasing transaction costs (and delays) due to some sort of flaw (not an expert, so don't quote me) with the system. If so, I'm not looking optimistic about Bitcoin, because the ease and low cost of transactions is supposed to be part of what makes Bitcoin worth it to use, buy, and sell.
> 
> Technically I guess there is one way a powerful government could shut down cryptos, and we might be headed that way anyhow in the long term - destruction of the internet.


I'm no expert either, but i suspect if it becomes a threat to legitimate currency that governments will shut it down in some way shape or form.


----------



## SystemTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Cryptocurrency does not equal mining.


Im sorry... I dont understand that statement.
You mine crypto-currencies or you trade them or both.
An apple and a orange are not equal, but the are both fruit? Thats how i see mining and cryptos. They are related.

Not trying to bash, just really trying to understand.


----------



## CriticalOne

Almost all forms of currency are fiat currency. Cryptocurrency isn't only immune to this, but is one of the strongest example of a fiat currency. The value of crytocurrency today still relies heavily on its value based on other currencies, just like more traditional currencies such as USD and EUR. Gold and silver are also fiat currencies, because outside of a few industrial uses, the value of these materials come from collective belief that they aren't fiat currencies and that they look pretty. It was good to get rid of the gold standard; not only is there nowhere near enough gold to cover the supply of the USD alone, us Americans would be eating out of trash bins since gold lost around a third of its value in 2013.


----------



## SystemTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Quantium40*
> 
> I think one of the issues Bitcoin is facing is increasing transaction costs (and delays) due to some sort of flaw (not an expert, so don't quote me) with the system. If so, I'm not looking optimistic about Bitcoin, because the ease and low cost of transactions is supposed to be part of what makes Bitcoin worth it to use, buy, and sell.
> 
> Technically I guess there is one way a powerful government could shut down cryptos, and we might be headed that way anyhow in the long term - destruction of the internet.


I Agree, Bitcoin does have limitations, but it does have a HUGE following and compared to today's standards of banking, its still a huge leap ahead with global visibility, global accountability and global transfarablility. So i believe for now, it will still be number one but there are much better coins (ETH eg.) that are ready to take the throne but its all down to the investors.

I dont think any goverment can really and truly block a digital currency. Its too distributed. And the internet is not going anywhere so...


----------



## Poisoner

Good luck using your digital currency when the government shuts down the internet.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poisoner*
> 
> Good luck using your digital currency when the government shuts down the internet.


So much is dependent on the internet at this point (including traditional banking) that were it to be shut down, cryptocurrency would be the least of anyone's worries.


----------



## Darkpriest667

All I'm going to say is those of you saying crypto is going to replace or even surpass fiat as the usable currency in the world do not understand how monetary policy has saved us from multiple recessionary events.

I mine and trade in crypto, but if you think that decentralized currency is a good idea for replacing central banking you haven't studied much economic history.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poisoner*
> 
> Good luck using your digital currency when the government shuts down the internet.


So much is dependent on the internet at this point (including traditional banking) that were it to be shut down, cryptocurrency would be the least of anyone's worries.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> saved us from multiple recessionary events.


I'm of the opinion that many of the measures taken to avert recession/depression are significantly worse than the consequences of letting the markets fend for themselves, or collapse, if they cannot.


----------



## mr2cam

Yikes I am enjoying my popcorn, all I know is that after about 3 weeks ive made $525 mining zcash, Ended up going with Zcash because ETH difficulty was high and at the time AMD cards were impossible to find, now everything is hard to find.


----------



## Sobekite

This thread made me hate "crypto-enthusiasts" even more. Thanks Nilareon, GJ!


----------



## TUFinside

Not locked yet ? impressive


----------



## Dagamus NM

I agree that mining has made a lot of cards disappear. I am currently using 15 GPUs to mine. 6 of those are Titan X Pascals. Probably about the worst card a person could use for mining if they were purchasing specific to that purpose.

That said, for them being cards that are used for other purposes when needed and usually idle this works out great. Keeping them cool is the challenge, but them already being liquid cooled when the price of coins jumped made it all that much better.

You will find mining less profitable if only using one card as the rest of your system consumes power. The cost of running the rest of the machine goes down as more cards are added as the system power cost is balanced against the total consumption and profit from that.

It sure would be nice to get another 12 1080Tis though. I have a gigabyte UD7 and a rampage IV with CPUs and memory in them collecting dust. Plus the new rampage board will come out sometime soon. Sounds like Volta will not be bringing anything to the consumer sector anytime soon. $699 per 1080ti plus another 150 for a waterblock. That or the aurus card with waterblock for 850.

Price fluctuations are supply and demand based. People pick their sell point which apparently is $2400 today as each time we hit that a bunch of sales trigger and the price drops. People selling at market rate push even further as the market drops. The cycle the past few weeks has been rather regular. Hit $2600 and then trigger selling which drops to $2250 and then back up.

While gold is not a great investment, I do plan on buying at least one ounce with BTC as long as the price is not too much more than just selling the BTC and buying local at spot plus a small percentage. I just want to have that tangible thing to press a palm with and say mining got me this. Yes I could do the same with a car or anything else, but there is something psychological about gold. After that I will be buying solar panels.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> So much is dependent on the internet at this point (including traditional banking) that were it to be shut down, cryptocurrency would be the least of anyone's worries.
> *I'm of the opinion that many of the measures taken to avert recession/depression are significantly worse than the consequences of letting the markets fend for themselves, or collapse, if they cannot.*


QFT

I absolutely, 100% agree with that statement.


----------



## kmac20

Honestly ever since the silk road went under, crypto currency has become exceedingly more and more useless for the average person. Mining in my opinion is a non worthwhile usage of time at this point as well considering the length of blockchains and the fact that the average person who uses, lets say bitcoins, have no issues buying them whether theres a billion people mining them or 1. Why? Because the pre existing ones are already being sold, and the average person who has bitcoins wants to turn them into real hard cash, and the average person buying bitcoins wants to turn them into illegal purchases, and purchase said crypto currency with cold hard cash. No one really wants the coins is my point, they are all just using them as a means of transferring real money.

They're an intermediary between moving money from one pocket to another, albeit in a (safer) way. Although, it IS possible to trace bitcoin purchases if you have access to the "wallets" of someone who has utilized them for purchases; its can be a super long process that can be sped up though by knowing who bought what, when and which wallets it moved to and from. Which of course happened when the feds seized all of the data on the silk road servers and from any of the idiots on there who were really really stupid about how they did things, which in this instance was the majority of users.

Again though, cryptocurrency is essentially, if we're talking about actual use in the real world (and not simply a market of speculators who think that it does more than this) a simple intermediary allowing me to move my cold hard cash into the pockets of someone else. This is an obvious statement, but an important one to make I feel, as the value of the bitcoin is inherently tied to the products that people are purchasing them with.

For example, let us say someone wanted to buy some marijuana illegally via the silkroad, they would have paid for that in cash, and essentially do, as (believe me on this one) the person who sold it immediately turned that bitcoin into cash as soon as they received it. No one utilizing a cryptocurrency wants to keep the crypto currency, at least anyone using it for the majority of crap its used for, they want money. You dont want an imaginary number on a computer block chain if youre a drug dealer or dealing in illegal products: you want money. And as a result you are going to turn that into money as soon as humanly possible. Anyone who was left holding bitcoins after the take down of silk road got really screwed. Trust me on this one.

As someone who (never!) was on that site, and having seen the huge drop in the value of bitcoins accordingly when Dread Pirate Roberts was arrested and the Silk Road seized by the FBI, I see no reason to even get involved in any of this crap anymore. With extremely rare exceptions, crypto currencies are going to go the way of the dodo bird for the most part. This is just my opinion obviously, but again, as someone who (of course never EVER!) used the silk road, the golden age of the bitcoin and cryptocurrency passed.

And also mining is a joke, and anyone who thinks they're going to make any money off of it nowadays, short of owning an entire warehouse with thousands of mining rigs, which of course costs electricity to power, cool, and the overhead of the warehouse, is not really doing the math I feel. So unless youre in a super free, unregulated area (ie China) where you can get all of that dirt, dirt, dirt cheap (especially if youre bribing the right people to ignore even more regulations than those already ignored) it is probably going to cost you more to actually mine cryptocurrency than you'll receive in return.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Honestly ever since the silk road went under, crypto currency has become exceedingly more and more useless for the average person. Mining in my opinion is a non worthwhile usage of time at this point as well considering the length of blockchains and the fact that the average person who uses, lets say bitcoins, have no issues buying them whether theres a billion people mining them or 1. Why? Because the pre existing ones are already being sold.
> 
> As someone who NEVER! was on that site, and having seen the huge drop in the cost of bitcoins accordingly when Dread Pirate Roberts was arrested and the Silk Road seized by the FBI, I see no reason to even get involved in any of this crap anymore. With extremely rare exceptions, crypto currencies are going to go the way of the dodo bird for the most part. This is just my opinion obviously, but again, as someone who of course never EVER used the silk road, the golden age of the bitcoin and cryptocurrency passed.


Then why is BTC worth more now than it ever was when SR was around? There are plenty of SR replacements out there if you bother to search. I don't know them because I don't use them, but they are out there. They just don't have the notoriety that SR had.

Anyhow, while the DIY aspect of BTC mining is done there are other coins that are still profitable.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

You do realised more and more sites are accepting crypto currency now right? Steam, Newegg & Amazon accept it so it's not going away any time soon, if anything it will get more and more popular especially with some countries offering "debt cards" so you can take real hard currency out from bitcoin ATM's.


----------



## kmac20

Oh believe me, I know there are replacements, but its not the same. If you were ever on the silk road, you could have seen how it operated, and how since then its become fractured and way less safe. Wayyyyyyyy less safe.

Regardless of the current value of them now, I was referring more to the insanely huge drop in value when the silk road went under. Which is the inherent issue: the next time theres an issue with any huge community using this currency, it will again plummet.

I will argue that the reason coins are worth more now than say when the silk road was around is simple: speculators. People think that bitcoins have value, when in reality its the cash that has value, and the bitcoin is a mere intermediary between moving cash from my pocket to someone elses across the world who is trying to avoid having real money purchase records. If you could have used real hard cash on the silk road, people would have, and bitcoins would have never really picked up in the first place.

No average person using bitcoins in real world scenarios really _wants_ to use them, they just do because they have to. I promise you this: if people could have just put lets say 100$ of cash into escrow to buy a bundle of heroin instead of 100$ worth of bitcoins they would have. Speculators have driven the price up since then, and it'll crash again at the slightest sign of instability or another "crash" as a result of people using them having no where to spend them anymore.

Yes again, those sites still exist, but several of them since then have been:
-scams: there was a market called sheep something, which in retrospect was a hilarious name as they essentially exploited people like sheep to steal bitcoins, which they IMMEDIATELY turned into cash. and since you cannot get the bitcoins back, no one did
-also seized: several silk road replacements have been also seized by interpol and the FBI, which makes using bitcoins more and more pointless
-are much smaller than the original silk road, and are as a result much more private, meaning eventually when people get comfortable enough, they'll quit using the cryptocurrency and start dealing in cash as they seek to move the business back OFFLINE where there is no data trail. Its a lot easier to prove that someone sold X to Y when theres a huge data trail present in servers and on the web, its a lot harder to prove when someone meets someone in person in a park with a bunch of cash in an envelope and a bunch of heroin in another.

Speculators. Thats pretty much it. Again, soon as theres some instability in any sort of large marketplace that uses bitcoins, be ready for ANOTHER crash and another loss of money as a result of plummeting value, as everyone immediately attemps to sell their coins to get their cash back. Because again (for the most part with VERY VERY VERY FEW exceptions) you cannot spend bitcoins in the real world. You can however spend United States currency almost anywhere on the planet for any product, at any time, ever. And THAT is never going to change.

No one wants bitcoins truly, they want the money they can get from selling them.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> You do realised more and more sites are accepting crypto currency now right? Steam, Newegg & Amazon accept it so it's not going away any time soon, if anything it will get more and more popular especially with some countries offering "debt cards" so you can take real hard currency out from bitcoin ATM's.


I used a BTC ATM last week at a mall in Portland Oregon. It was not convenient and the exchange rate was abysmal, but I was able to take BTC from mining and have an ATM spit out cash. It would be better to just sell on an exchange and wire into my bank but that is beside the point.

Airlines are accepting BTC now too. A lot of places are, well a lot more than used to. It is far more convenient a medium to trade in than gold or silver.


----------



## manolith

I find it funny how now everyone wants to buy a new gpu and from the first time i ever game to OCN i seen countless and countless threads of people saying that they will wait till next gen to upgrade and next gen and the gen after next gen. now it seems that everyone wants to upgrade their gpu. the gtx 1070 and 1080s have been out for a long time and now is when everyone wants to upgrade. and its even more laughable when you can just preorder from an oem and just wait a few weeks until they ship your gpu at msrp. but now everyone must cry and complain because people who actually buy hardware saw the chance to make some extra money by either selling their cards on ebay or amazon for miners or actual miners that are just buying cards. i understand the frustration for someone that is just getting into PCs and are trying to build a setup but that is not the people that are complaining here at OCN. miners are not the reason that you dont have a 1080 or 1070 or a rx480 or 570 in your system now. stop whining. rant over


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Oh believe me, I know there are replacements, but its not the same. If you were ever on the silk road, you could have seen how it operated, and how since then its become fractured and way less safe. Wayyyyyyyy less safe.
> 
> Regardless of the current value of them now, I was referring more to the insanely huge drop in value when the silk road went under. Which is the inherent issue: the next time theres an issue with any huge community using this currency, it will again plummet.
> 
> I will argue that the reason coins are worth more now than say when the silk road was around is simple: speculators. People think that bitcoins have value, when in reality its the cash that has value, and the bitcoin is a mere intermediary between moving cash from my pocket to someone elses across the world who is trying to avoid having real money purchase records. If you could have used real hard cash on the silk road, people would have, and bitcoins would have never really picked up in the first place.
> 
> No average person using bitcoins in real world scenarios really _wants_ to use them, they just do because they have to. I promise you this: if people could have just put lets say 100$ of cash into escrow to buy a bundle of heroin instead of 100$ worth of bitcoins they would have. Speculators have driven the price up since then, and it'll crash again at the slightest sign of instability or another "crash" as a result of people using them having no where to spend them anymore.
> 
> Yes again, those sites still exist, but several of them since then have been:
> -scams: there was a market called sheep something, which in retrospect was a hilarious name as they essentially exploited people like sheep to steal bitcoins, which they IMMEDIATELY turned into cash. and since you cannot get the bitcoins back, no one did
> -also seized: several silk road replacements have been also seized by interpol and the FBI, which makes using bitcoins more and more pointless
> -are much smaller than the original silk road, and are as a result much more private, meaning eventually when people get comfortable enough, they'll quit using the cryptocurrency and start dealing in cash as they seek to move the business back OFFLINE where there is no data trail. Its a lot easier to prove that someone sold X to Y when theres a huge data trail present in servers and on the web, its a lot harder to prove when someone meets someone in person in a park with a bunch of cash in an envelope and a bunch of heroin in another.
> 
> Speculators. Thats pretty much it. Again, soon as theres some instability in any sort of large marketplace that uses bitcoins, be ready for ANOTHER crash and another loss of money as a result of plummeting value, as everyone immediately attemps to sell their coins to get their cash back. Because again (for the most part with VERY VERY VERY FEW exceptions) you cannot spend bitcoins in the real world. You can however spend United States currency almost anywhere on the planet for any product, at any time, ever. And THAT is never going to change.
> 
> No one wants bitcoins truly, they want the money they can get from selling them.


It was a one stop shop for sure. I looked at it out of curiosity. It is what really made the whole concept famous. That said, it wasn't the SR bust that caused the price to plummet, it was the Mt. Gox catastrophe. There have been events that have heavily influenced it but again look at where it is. Companies are looking at blockchain tech for managing transactions for electricity generation and consumption. Great for lots of small transactions with transparency. With the direction legitimate companies are taking it there is no reason to call it dead. Is it different than it was? Sure. That there are new coins that can still be mined with a GPU is pretty cool.

Of course people want the money they can get from BTC. You can't fashion it into jewelry or make anything with it. In the U.S. our money is relatively stable, but in other countries it is not the case.

What drove the first big spike in price? The government of Cyprus freezing bank withdrawals and taxing the heck out of foreign investments. People wanted something the government couldn't just outright steal like that. It has been popular ever since.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> I used a BTC ATM last week at a mall in Portland Oregon. It was not convenient and the exchange rate was abysmal, but I was able to take BTC from mining and have an ATM spit out cash. It would be better to just sell on an exchange and wire into my bank but that is beside the point.
> 
> Airlines are accepting BTC now too. A lot of places are, well a lot more than used to. It is far more convenient a medium to trade in than gold or silver.


Right but as you yourself said, its not convenient. And while it may be more convenient than using gold or silver (good luck purchasing an airline ticket with a quarter ounce of gold) its still not what people really want. They want the money that they get from selling bitcoins, or the money they get by purchasing them, waiting till the value goes up, then spending them, where afterwards the person or entity who accepted the bitcoins as currency want to immediately turn into cash before the value falls.

Again this is textbook speculation. The real world uses of bitcoins MAY be increasing, slightly, but the average person probably doesn't even know what a bitcoin is, and the majority of people who were using bitcoins (and still are) were using them for illicit reasons. And again, once theres any change in any of the major players and markets using bitcoins, prepare for another crash.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Good. Make GPUs affordable again.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> It was a one stop shop for sure. I looked at it out of curiosity. It is what really made the whole concept famous. That said, it wasn't the SR bust that caused the price to plummet, it was the Mt. Gox catastrophe. There have been events that have heavily influenced it but again look at where it is. Companies are looking at blockchain tech for managing transactions for electricity generation and consumption. Great for lots of small transactions with transparency. With the direction legitimate companies are taking it there is no reason to call it dead. Is it different than it was? Sure. That there are new coins that can still be mined with a GPU is pretty cool.
> 
> Of course people want the money they can get from BTC. You can't fashion it into jewelry or make anything with it. In the U.S. our money is relatively stable, but in other countries it is not the case.
> 
> What drove the first big spike in price? The government of Cyprus freezing bank withdrawals and taxing the heck out of foreign investments. People wanted something the government couldn't just outright steal like that. It has been popular ever since.


You are correct about the Mt Gox catastrophe playing a huge part, but that in part was caused by the SR going under. A domino effect if you will. Because everyone who was on the silkroad, and I will argue that the silkroad constituted the vast majority of bitcoin users AT THE TIME. So when the silkroad went under, everyone wanted to sell their coins and cash back out. Mt Gox couldn't keep up with this, or simply chose not to (this is an entirely different argument) and therefore the crash happened.

Here is a great example: Dread Pirate Roberts still has tens of millions of dollars in bitcoins somewhere, and ONLY HE knows the combination to the wallet. BUT GUESS WHAT: he cannot do anything with it, because the government will in an instant know when he gives the wallet to someone and they suddenly come into millions upon millions of dollars. So I ask you this: what good are all of those bitcoins to someone in that position? Im sure he would rather have the cash in the hands of his family or friends instead of hidden in a wallet somewhere that no one can get to, ever.

And that brings it full circle: the bitcoins are again a medium of exchange of real, widely recognized currency, between people who cannot (or choose not to) exchange the currency itself. You cant go buy heroin on the street with a bitcoin, but you can if you cash out your 100$ worth of bitcoin and hit up the corner.\

And if youre somewhere where the economy is collapsing, the people want actual goods to trade rather than currency, and if they are more interested in trading goods and services instead of money (WHICH IS ITSELF ALSO A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE AND A WAY TO VALUE GOODS AND SERVICES) _why in the hell would they want a medium of exchange OF a medium of exchange?_


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Good. Make GPUs affordable again.


We might be in for another GTX 970 GPU from Nvidia. They too do not want people to buy used 1060, 1070 or RX cards. If they can release a $330 card that kills 1080 and close to 1080 Ti, people will not care even for $200 1070.


----------



## xx9e02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> We might be in for another GTX 970 GPU from Nvidia. They too do not want people to buy used 1060, 1070 or RX cards. If they can release a $330 card that kills 1080 and close to 1080 Ti, people will not care even for $200 1070.


Maybe I can get another $30 check 2 years later if that pans out


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> You are correct about the Mt Gox catastrophe playing a huge part, but that in part was caused by the SR going under. A domino effect if you will. Because everyone who was on the silkroad, and I will argue that the silkroad constituted the vast majority of bitcoin users AT THE TIME. So when the silkroad went under, everyone wanted to sell their coins and cash back out. Mt Gox couldn't keep up with this, or simply chose not to (this is an entirely different argument) and therefore the crash happened.
> 
> Here is a great example: Dread Pirate Roberts still has tens of millions of dollars in bitcoins somewhere, and ONLY HE knows the combination to the wallet. BUT GUESS WHAT: he cannot do anything with it, because the government will in an instant know when he gives the wallet to someone and they suddenly come into millions upon millions of dollars. So I ask you this: what good are all of those bitcoins to someone in that position? Im sure he would rather have the cash in the hands of his family or friends instead of hidden in a wallet somewhere that no one can get to, ever.
> 
> And that brings it full circle: the bitcoins are again a medium of exchange of real, widely recognized currency, between people who cannot (or choose not to) exchange the currency itself. You cant go buy heroin on the street with a bitcoin, but you can if you cash out your 100$ worth of bitcoin and hit up the corner.\
> 
> And if youre somewhere where the economy is collapsing, the people want actual goods to trade rather than currency, and if they are more interested in trading goods and services instead of money (WHICH IS ITSELF ALSO A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE AND A WAY TO VALUE GOODS AND SERVICES) _why in the hell would they want a medium of exchange OF a medium of exchange?_


Every BTC lost increases the value of those that remain. How many have been lost in wallets since the beginning? Half? A third? A lot that is for sure. Either way, buying mining equipment is probably a bad idea. That said, if you have it take advantage of what you can do with it. Things are trending downward but I am still making money at the moment. It might only be $40/day right now whereas it was $100 per day two weeks ago. Well, once the profit drops below operating costs I simply turn them off. If it never goes up again oh well. If I get solar panels with my house remodel then even more incentive to mine. 6kW would be nice.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUFinside*
> 
> Not locked yet ? impressive


All the mods are probably on vacation


----------



## spinFX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilareon*
> 
> I have no statistical evidence to support my claims, but i'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a VERY, small number of people. Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards, because these graphics cards are a piece of hardware that ANYONE can buy for any reason. You're not entitled to these cards, and the best part about that is... whether or not you agree, there is nothing you can do about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the equivalent of complaining about a new product at a grocery store going out of stock periodically because it got more popular and the groceries haven't adjusted for the demand yet. You're by no means entitled to any product for sale as a group. It's like saying vegan food is only for vegans and nobody else except vegans can buy organic non-gmo VEGAN food. Same thing could be said for something such as a sports jersey. It's like saying someone who is a fan of another team can't but a sports jersey for a player on your favorite team because it isn't USUALLY their favorite team. It's a stupid argument. Just because the cooling shroud on a graphics card is tailored to "gamers" with RGB hell doesn't mean they're YOUR CARDS ONLY.
> 
> So keep crying :'( your argument is, (in my opinion) so off base and so invalid... I'll fight this all day... I got monthly patching to do but I'd much rather sit there and defend crypto to the uneducated so keep em coming boys you got about 7 more hours.


Fully agree with you, none, if not very few pc gamers will be lost because of this.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Every BTC lost increases the value of those that remain. How many have been lost in wallets since the beginning? Half? A third? A lot that is for sure. Either way, buying mining equipment is probably a bad idea. That said, if you have it take advantage of what you can do with it. Things are trending downward but I am still making money at the moment. It might only be $40/day right now whereas it was $100 per day two weeks ago. Well, once the profit drops below operating costs I simply turn them off. If it never goes up again oh well. If I get solar panels with my house remodel then even more incentive to mine. 6kW would be nice.


You can get a 6Kw Array for 4100 bucks.. That's not installed... installed probably 7k + the inverter and batteries.. It will be one of the best investments you've ever made.


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Every BTC lost increases the value of those that remain. How many have been lost in wallets since the beginning? Half? A third? A lot that is for sure. Either way, buying mining equipment is probably a bad idea. That said, if you have it take advantage of what you can do with it. Things are trending downward but I am still making money at the moment. It might only be $40/day right now whereas it was $100 per day two weeks ago. Well, once the profit drops below operating costs I simply turn them off. If it never goes up again oh well. If I get solar panels with my house remodel then even more incentive to mine. 6kW would be nice.
> 
> 
> 
> You can get a 6Kw Array for 4100 bucks.. That's not installed... installed probably 7k + the inverter and batteries.. It will be one of the best investments you've ever made.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to setup a smart switch that pulls power from the grid once it can't get enough power from solar panels?

Converting to battery and using a inverter to convert it to AC is highly inefficient.

Maybe someone can make a high current DC to DC power supply with variable input voltage.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Is it possible to setup a smart switch that pulls power from the grid once it can't get enough power from solar panels?
> 
> Converting to battery and using a inverter to conver it to AC is highly inefficient.


Well you dont have to use Solar like that. You can still use normal grid and sell Solar when KW is the most expensive.


----------



## jaredismee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Every BTC lost increases the value of those that remain. How many have been lost in wallets since the beginning? Half? A third? A lot that is for sure.


i was pretty sad when i recently remembered i lost a few from back when i used to sell mmorpg currency. decided it was too much of a hassle and never sold the few i had or accepted it again. they are on a recently discarded hdd now. (when i say a few i mean like 3)

this is pretty off topic tho,

but to get back on topic i am pretty happy that the used r9 fury i bought is worth like $50-100 more than i paid for it now








ty miners


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaredismee*
> 
> i was pretty sad when i recently remembered i lost a few from back when i used to sell mmorpg currency. decided it was too much of a hassle and never sold the few i had or accepted it again. they are on a recently discarded hdd now. (when i say a few i mean like 3)
> 
> this is pretty off topic tho,
> 
> but to get back on topic i am pretty happy that the used r9 fury i bought is worth like $50-100 more than i paid for it now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ty miners


Still 3 is a lot of money. Thats 3 high end PCs for the nest 6-10 years.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Still 3 is a lot of money. Thats 3 high end PCs for the nest 6-10 years.


ha! i lost 5BTCs when all those database leaks were occurring, never got it back.

i could've bought a flat with how much BTCs are worth right now, a pity but its all bad luck.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> ha! i lost 5BTCs when all those database leaks were occurring, never got it back.
> 
> i could've bought a flat with how much BTCs are worth right now, a pity but its all bad luck.


I bought one of those electronic wallets just to be safe as I plan to keep my ETH long term.


----------



## jaredismee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Still 3 is a lot of money. Thats 3 high end PCs for the nest 6-10 years.


i just consider their value being what they were worth in 2010 or 11 when i got them and it is not so bad. though i did spend an entire day getting an old broken laptop running recently praying they were in the wallet on that, but when i got into it the wallet read 0.00.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Is it possible to setup a smart switch that pulls power from the grid once it can't get enough power from solar panels?
> 
> Converting to battery and using a inverter to convert it to AC is highly inefficient.
> 
> Maybe someone can make a high current DC to DC power supply with variable input voltage.


In Texas that switch is required and you're required to sell your spare to the electric company for market value... which is what they sell it to the customers for... Inverters are not that inefficient anymore.


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Good. Make GPUs affordable again.


I'm with you on that one. Hope the value drops like a rock.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> In Texas that switch is required and you're required to sell your spare to the electric company for market value... which is what they sell it to the customers for... Inverters are not that inefficient anymore.


true, the high efficient ones are just as efficient as Gold PSUs, thats roughly 92% on average.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega X*
> 
> I'm with you on that one. Hope the value drops like a rock.


The Value of what? If market is full of used parts at cheap prices AMD and Nvidia will not stock up that much new cards.


----------



## AlphaC

https://www.techspot.com/article/1438-ethereum-mining-gpu-benchmark/


Expect some more 3GB GTX 1060 and 4GB RX 570 / RX 580 sales.


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The Value of what? If market is full of used parts at cheap prices AMD and Nvidia will not stock up that much new cards.


The value of what? Read the thread title.

It won't be the only market suffering from glut right now. Its only a good thing for consumers. NV and AMD can adjust production and save some cash. OR they can keep the same production levels and consumers can enjoy even lower prices for a short period of time and upgrade all the things. Because we all know that the next crypto vampire will come along and suck the market dry again.


----------



## CSCoder4ever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpykeZ*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> That's good. Hopefully GPU market will return to normal soon.
> 
> 
> 
> This. I hope all these hippos that bought up all these cards see this cryptocurrency hit a brick wall and they're left with things of dollars of hardware they have to sell at a fraction of the price just to make some money back. Trying to build a computer for my customers has me telling them to wait until eggs crap dies down which eats into my wallet.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Good. Make GPUs affordable again.


These. Someday I'll get a decent new video card, I've had this 760 for eons now.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega X*
> 
> The value of what? Read the thread title.
> 
> It won't be the only market suffering from glut right now. Its only a good thing for consumers. NV and AMD can adjust production and save some cash. OR they can keep the same production levels and consumers can enjoy even lower prices for a short period of time and upgrade all the things. Because we all know that the next crypto vampire will come along and suck the market dry again.


R9 290 and 290X where kind of dead after the mining craze. Most models never came back in stock and price where very low in used market.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> thats why if you go to chinatown in new york, nearly most of the Chinese or asian restaurants do not accept credit card since they want to keep their price low and don't want to artificially inflate their price to cover for the transaction fee.


Makes it easier to dodge taxes as well.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> In Texas that switch is required and you're required to sell your spare to the electric company for market value... which is what they sell it to the customers for... Inverters are not that inefficient anymore.


Phony market value, at least with my "coop".

Residential solar is worth more than .038 per kW or whatever ridiculously low rate it is offering. The coop's entire policy is anti-solar, complete with multiple anti-solar propaganda pages on its website.

1) Have to take out a silly insurance policy, supposedly to protect their workers from electrocution. When I told solar pros about this they thought I was making it up, but a number of coops use this as a disincentive.

2) The entire coop has a cap of a whopping 1% that can be generated by solar.

3) The aforementioned anti-solar propaganda pages - complete with misleading claims.

4) Solar-generating customers are barred from the TOU rate plan.

5) The agreement says the utility will charge solar-generating customers for any studies the utility claims need to be done to see what the impact will be on the grid. This opens the customer to an infinite amount of financial liability for whatever studies they decide they need to pull out of a hat to cover that massive 1% cap.









6) They say the massive 1% cap has a "first to come, first served" basis, but there is no disclosure about how close the coop is to that cap.

7) They say they can drop a person from the plan at any time. That means that if one of their friends gets solar then they can drop you, put them into the massive 1% cap, and then tell you that you can reapply.

8) If you don't like any of this they'll tell you that you should buy into their community solar. Otherwise, you're just an obstinate selfish person (the implication of most of the propaganda on their site).


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Phony market value, at least with my "coop".
> 
> Residential solar is worth more than .038 per kW or whatever ridiculously low rate it is offering. The coop's entire policy is anti-solar, complete with multiple anti-solar propaganda pages on its website.
> 
> 1) Have to take out a silly insurance policy, supposedly to protect their workers from electrocution. When I told solar pros about this they thought I was making it up, but a number of coops use this as a disincentive.
> 
> 2) The entire coop has a cap of a whopping 1% that can be generated by solar.
> 
> 3) The aforementioned anti-solar propaganda pages - complete with misleading claims.
> 
> 4) Solar-generating customers are barred from the TOU rate plan.
> 
> 5) The agreement says the utility will charge solar-generating customers for any studies the utility claims need to be done to see what the impact will be on the grid. This opens the customer to an infinite amount of financial liability for whatever studies they decide they need to pull out of a hat to cover that massive 1% cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6) They say the massive 1% cap has a "first to come, first served" basis, but there is no disclosure about how close the coop is to that cap.
> 
> 7) They say they can drop a person from the plan at any time. That means that if one of their friends gets solar then they can drop you, put them into the massive 1% cap, and then tell you that you can reapply.
> 
> 8) If you don't like any of this they'll tell you that you should buy into their community solar. Otherwise, you're just an obstinate selfish person (the implication of most of the propaganda on their site).


Time to sell and move. Where the hell do you live?


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Time to sell and move. Where the hell do you live?


Utilities are lobbying hard all over the nation to get a situation just like mine. If you follow the solar news like I do you'll see this very clearly. ALEC.

My coop is part of a large network of them that act as a lobbying force against things like solar, too.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Utilities are lobbying hard all over the nation to get a situation just like mine. If you follow the solar news like I do you'll see this very clearly. ALEC.
> 
> My coop is part of a large network of them that act as a lobbying force against things like solar, too.


Again where do you live?


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Again where do you live?


In the USA. And, again, these policies are being strongly promoted all over the US, basically. Check out ALEC. For every reversal, like Nevada's recent one, there are a lot more anti-solar initiatives that are successful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/climate/rooftop-solar-panels-tax-credits-utility-companies-lobbying.html
http://midwestenergynews.com/2017/01/24/indiana-energy-bill-would-eliminate-net-metering-move-to-buy-all-sell-all-solar-model/
http://www.google.com/search?q=alec+solar&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> In the USA. And, again, these policies are being strongly promoted all over the US, basically. Check out ALEC. For every reversal, like Nevada's recent one, there are a lot more anti-solar initiatives that are successful.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/climate/rooftop-solar-panels-tax-credits-utility-companies-lobbying.html
> http://midwestenergynews.com/2017/01/24/indiana-energy-bill-would-eliminate-net-metering-move-to-buy-all-sell-all-solar-model/
> http://www.google.com/search?q=alec+solar&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1


I guess it must suck to live in a highly regulated area. In Texas we have competition and if there isn't a competition in the market (like amarillo or lubbock) they have to request a rate increase and they're not allowed to regulate independent energy production (like solar and wind)


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> I guess it must suck to live in a highly regulated area.


It's a state dominated by the coal lobby and the utilities lobby.


----------



## Queeme1982

I think ETH will be in rising position in next two-three months.


----------



## rbarrett96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilareon*
> 
> I have no statistical evidence to support my claims, but i'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a VERY, small number of people. Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards, because these graphics cards are a piece of hardware that ANYONE can buy for any reason. You're not entitled to these cards, and the best part about that is... whether or not you agree, there is nothing you can do about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the equivalent of complaining about a new product at a grocery store going out of stock periodically because it got more popular and the groceries haven't adjusted for the demand yet. You're by no means entitled to any product for sale as a group. It's like saying vegan food is only for vegans and nobody else except vegans can buy organic non-gmo VEGAN food. Same thing could be said for something such as a sports jersey. It's like saying someone who is a fan of another team can't but a sports jersey for a player on your favorite team because it isn't USUALLY their favorite team. It's a stupid argument. Just because the cooling shroud on a graphics card is tailored to "gamers" with RGB hell doesn't mean they're YOUR CARDS ONLY.
> 
> So keep crying :'( your argument is, (in my opinion) so off base and so invalid... I'll fight this all day... I got monthly patching to do but I'd much rather sit there and defend crypto to the uneducated so keep em coming boys you got about 7 more hours.


Also, I could care less about gamers not being able to buy cards
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilareon*
> 
> I meant I couldn't care at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's like saying I can't buy running shoes because I'm not a runner. Makes no sense. Graphics cards are out there for anyone who wants one. Except if you want one right now... you're going to get gouged... haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't blame the miners though! Blame the suppliers and retailers... they don't have to jack up the prices, do they?


I know what you meant. It was a grammar joke


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> It's a state dominated by the coal lobby and the utilities lobby.


EW you live in a state with a state income tax.. GET OUT... When I was driving from DFW to Amarillo last time I tried to count the wind turbines.. these are the huge seimens ones... 345 feet tall and do 3 to 6 MW.... They can power something stupid like 5000 houses.... I stopped counting at 1500.. those are the ones I could see from the highway and I know there are tons you can't see.... When I was in Vegas this summer ( I go every year) All I could think was.. why are there not solar panels on every roof in this city? Economically speaking it's a no brainer..

Get out.. I know where you are and get out now.


----------



## Superplush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> When I was in Vegas this summer ( I go every year) All I could think was.. why are there not solar panels on every roof in this city? Economically speaking it's a no brainer..
> .


Because the pilots do nothing but complain about solar power, it's obviously really, really blinding in a cockpit flying over ?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Because the pilots do nothing but complain about solar power, it's obviously really, really blinding in a cockpit flying over ?


Those aren't photovoltaic solar panels. That's a different kind of solar.


----------



## Particle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Those aren't photovoltaic solar panels. That's a different kind of solar.


It's thermal solar, but he didn't say it was PV so I'm not sure what you're getting at.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle*
> 
> It's thermal solar, but he didn't say it was PV so I'm not sure what you're getting at.


Those mirror arrays that heat water to spin a turbine are incredibly blinding. I cannot wait to have a good PV setup.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle*
> 
> It's thermal solar, but he didn't say it was PV so I'm not sure what you're getting at.


It's a different kind of solar power than what I was referring to.


----------



## Pro3ootector

Meanwhile Chaincoin price skyrocket >100%

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/chaincoin/


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Get out.. I know where you are and get out now.


Keep posting that red herring if you like.

Or, you could pay attention to the real issue - ALEC and what's happening right now in terms of change/momentum. Solar has the momentum, in terms of price reduction, but it is losing momentum thanks to lobbying against it by utilities and groups like ALEC.

I wouldn't brag to me about Texas, either, since it tends to rank poorly in important metrics. 2006 data showed it dead last in high school graduation rate, out of 50 states.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Keep posting that red herring if you like.
> 
> Or, you could pay attention to the real issue - ALEC and what's happening right now in terms of change/momentum. Solar has the momentum, in terms of price reduction, but it is losing momentum thanks to lobbying against it by utilities and groups like ALEC.
> 
> I wouldn't brag to me about Texas, either, since it tends to rank poorly in important metrics. 2006 data showed it dead last in high school graduation rate, out of 50 states.


No red herring I was just having a discussion... Texas is 3rd in high school graduation your data is 11 years old... It's whatever, feel free to rot in the rust belt.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> No red herring I was just having a discussion...


It is a red herring for the reason I've mentioned multiple times now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Texas is 3rd in high school graduation


3rd from the bottom?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> your data is 11 years old...


Big deal. Being last out of 50 states as recently as 2006 is not impressive at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> It's whatever, feel free to rot in the rust belt.


When you've purchased a nice house for me and moving expenses feel free to PM.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Third from the top.. we have a 90+% graduation rate. I'm done. I wish you luck


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Third from the top.. we have a 90+% graduation rate. I'm done. I wish you luck


That's an impressive turn-around. I wonder how long it will take for the effects of being at the bottom so recently will take to wear off, though. It's not like 2006 was a really long time ago and the people who didn't graduate all went back to school.

Also, since we've been talking about Texas and solar:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HC*
> Houston Chronicle - Texas' lack of statewide metering policy slows adoption of rooftop solar
> 
> Retail electric companies and utilities in Texas struggle to value solar energy in a state without net metering laws, industry officials said.
> 
> Texas' lack of a statewide net metering policy has hindered the spread of rooftop systems as solar companies and retail electricity providers are left to determine their own values for solar power. They often disagree.
> 
> Valuing solar power is not a problem exclusive to Texas' deregulated market.


Quote:


> Houston Chronicle - Opinions are all over the map on the value of solar power
> 
> Texas has done little to encourage the spread of solar - it has no statewide net metering policy. However, Texas residents who get rooftop panels are eligible for federal tax credits; companies can qualify for a tax abatement if they build utility-scale projects that produce more than 1 megawatt, or enough to power 200 homes on a hot Texas day. And so solar has started to spread, albeit slowly, as Texas utilities, retail electricity providers and grid operators try to resolve problems that state government hasn't take on - like determining rates for solar power sales and how to work home-generated solar power into the grid.
> 
> Texas solar companies gathered in Austin last week for a small summit to talk about how the industry, among other things, values the energy that it produces. But there seemed to be little consensus. The regulated utilities said they want to be able to raise transmission rates on all their customers to account for the customers who rely on solar and no longer need their transmission lines.
> 
> Solar panel companies, on the other hand, argued that homeowners should be compensated for the energy they put into the grid. Utilities and solar companies often disagree about what level of compensation is fair, sometimes drastically.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Utility Dive*
> Texas utility proposes increased fees, demand charges for solar customers in 2017 rate case
> 
> Texan utility El Paso Electric has filed a request with regulators asking them to approve an 8.7% increase for electric customers and a mandatory demand charge for solar users.
> 
> El Paso Electric has again proposed demand charges for solar customers, six months after it dropped a similar proposal from last year's rate case. For private rooftop solar customers, the impact would be about $14/month and would include a new rate structure, including a monthly demand charge. EPE is also proposing a new rate structure for small commercial customers with private solar identical to that proposed for residential customers.
> 
> El Paso is also proposing to eliminate subsidies for all customers.


also:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *San Diego Tribune*
> Suniva filed a petition with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), calling for a price floor of 78 cents per watt for solar panels made outside the U.S. and import duties of 40 cents per watt on solar cells. Experts say solar cells currently sell for 25 cents to 33 cents per watt. Critics within the solar industry say imposing tariffs will have negative effects across the business chain.
> 
> The ITC case comes at a crucial moment for solar. The industry has been boosted by a 30 percent federal tax credit but those supports are scheduled to be reduced. The credit drops 26 percent in 2020, 22 percent in 2021 and 10 percent in 2022 and beyond.


DOE grid study has wind and solar lobbyists spooked - rightly so


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> EW you live in a state with a state income tax.. GET OUT... When I was driving from DFW to Amarillo last time I tried to count the wind turbines.. these are the huge seimens ones... 345 feet tall and do 3 to 6 MW.... They can power something stupid like 5000 houses.... I stopped counting at 1500.. those are the ones I could see from the highway and I know there are tons you can't see.... When I was in Vegas this summer ( I go every year) All I could think was.. why are there not solar panels on every roof in this city? Economically speaking it's a no brainer..
> 
> Get out.. I know where you are and get out now.


The tax thing is a bad argument. There are only a handful states without income tax and all of them have some kind of major issue.

Texas, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Illinois, South Dakota, Washington, Indiana, Illinois. Texas stands out because its a major trade hub between the U.S. and Central America and doesn't need an income tax. But kind of falls in line with many of the same issues the others have.


----------



## Darkpriest667

My main point was that it is a solar friendly state. I personally don't like being double income taxed, some people do. I do not.


----------



## Ghoxt

IIRC TExas also does not have property Tax...That's not trivial. Add that to your Mining Calculations lol


----------



## superstition222

Another issue is how much solar radiation (insolation) an area/state receives. If one lives in an area with less solar radiation over the year then things like array orientation and PV type become more important. Subsidies, net metering, and the like also can be quite critical in terms of making it possible to break even. It's impossible for me, even with Ebay-sourced panels or B-grade bulk pallet panels, to break even within a useful time frame because of the orientation of my house and garage, my utility's draconian anti-solar policy, and the lower level of insolation (which compounds the orientation of the house being a problem).

One criticism of solar is that its generation peaks during the day when people aren't home. That criticism, obviously doesn't work against most businesses putting in solar. One way to compensate for the complaint is to have a more west-facing array. The more west-facing the array is the more it peaks later in the day. An east-facing array also benefits the grid by peaking more toward morning. More north-facing can even be useful, but is typically the least feasible for people in areas with lower insolation. The angle also matters. A higher angle provides more generation in winter at the cost of some in summer. Then, there are manually-moved arrays, where a person moves the positioning twice or more per year. Mechanically-automated arrays are possible. Flat arrays are possible, especially on flat roofs in areas that don't get snow (although back to back is better on flat roofs now that panels are cheap). Solyndra came up with a cool tube solar panel, reminiscent of an Edison cylinder record, but the company went out of business, sadly. It was cool because it shed snow well and could capture light at a variety of angles.

Solar definitely seems like a great resource for miners. They can mine coins without feeling guilty about hogging down power, at least during solar generation times. However, there are pitfalls to going solar, like all the anti-solar lobbying that's picking up further steam as we speak.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> IIRC TExas also does not have property Tax...That's not trivial. Add that to your Mining Calculations lol


Texas most definitely has property taxes. They are high as well. Compared to most other Westrn states that is.

I don't see how that relates to mining calculations unless you are buying a property solely to house miners.


----------



## Puck

FWIW difficulty slightly decreased for yesterdays adjustment. Next one due in roughly 5 days.

People forget that just like difficulty can go up, it can also go down as global hash rate declines. Price is still "down" , but i feel it is more of a correction after that insane and illogical spike of thousands of percent gains in short time. Even now many coins are still profitable, even if ROI is now 5-6mos at current value. One price rally can easily cut months off that though so hard to speculate. On the flip side, another dip can double it







. Nature of the beast.

You have to know your hardware and expenses, everyone is different. People still get scammed from sites selling old inefficient miners with negative ROI...miners that are so slow, the power draw is higher then mined profit so you actually lose money unless your electricity is free. Imagine not knowing better and spending $50 on a USB miner to get into mining and finding out its worthless.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Texas most definitely has property taxes. They are high as well. Compared to most other Westrn states that is.
> 
> I don't see how that relates to mining calculations unless you are buying a property solely to house miners.


As a function of money you would not be spending to the "State". From the Texas Controller Webpage and also my neighbor who lived there for 50 years.









Quote: comptroller.texas.gov Source


> Does Texas have a state property tax?
> 
> No. Texas has only local property taxes levied by local taxing units. The state does not have local tax records on each property and its ownership and does not set your property's value for property taxes.


I only meant State Taxes, and in many states depending on the assessed value of your home could dwarf ANY yearly electric bill or local property tax. It varies alot. Its mostly OT except it being a major cost avoided situationally which is why i would mention in relation to mining which is all about keeping all costs down while mining.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> As a function of money you would not be spending to the "State". From the Texas Controller Webpage and also my neighbor who lived there for 50 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only meant State Taxes, and in many states depending on the assessed value of your home could dwarf ANY yearly electric bill or local property tax. It varies alot. Its mostly OT except it being a major cost avoided situationally which is why i would mention in relation to mining which is all about keeping all costs down while mining.


Ahh, my mom lived in Austin and her property taxes were double what they are here in Albuquerque. Guess that makes sense that they were either city or county property taxes and not from the state itself.

My property taxes here seem high, almost $3k per year. A lot less than others are paying. They are assessed and paid to the county so same idea as Texas I suppose.


----------



## kmac20

I live in Westchester in New York. Look up our taxes.

My family probably pays 10-12k a year? And we have a 2 bedroom 2 bath house, probably not even half an acre of property, and its one of the cheaper homes in my town.

edit: you dont even want to know property taxes in NYC.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> I live in Westchester in New York. Look up our taxes.
> 
> My family probably pays 10-12k a year? And we have a 2 bedroom 2 bath house, probably not even half an acre of property, and its one of the cheaper homes in my town.
> 
> edit: you dont even want to know property taxes in NYC.


I'd feel bad for you if I didn't live in Illinois


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Ahh, my mom lived in Austin and her property taxes were double what they are here in Albuquerque. Guess that makes sense that they were either city or county property taxes and not from the state itself.
> 
> My property taxes here seem high, almost $3k per year. A lot less than others are paying. They are assessed and paid to the county so same idea as Texas I suppose.


Austin is the San Fransisco of Texas. I own a 1/4 million dollar home and paid 3200 in property taxes last year. When you think of Texas, think everywhere except Austin. Austin is it's own animal and anyone that lives in Travis county gets what they deserve.


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Austin is the San Fransisco of Texas. I own a 1/4 million dollar home and paid 3200 in property taxes last year. When you think of Texas, think everywhere except Austin. Austin is it's own animal and anyone that lives in Travis county gets what they deserve.


That post gives me flashbacks to when I used to live in Houston. Houston people would always get annoyed by Austin visitors when they proclaimed that Austin was the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## Glottis

Seems like crypto prices keep on dropping. This is amazing news


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega X*
> 
> That post gives me flashbacks to when I used to live in Houston. Houston people would always get annoyed by Austin visitors when they proclaimed that Austin was the best thing since sliced bread.


This hipsters can have it. I went a few times when my mom lived there. It was ok, but the positives were outweighed by the negatives.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> Seems like crypto prices keep on dropping. This is amazing news


As I said, not a surprise at all.


----------



## Puck

Prices dropped due to investors cashing out and speculation over a fork in the bitcoin blockchain. They big three (BTC,ETH,LTC) are all rebounding.


----------



## STEvil

a lot more to it than that, but yeah I know a couple people that made $10k in the last 6 hours..


----------



## r9miner

I've been mining since back when you could mine several full Bitcoins per week on a few HD 5870s. The important distinction to make is that one should be mining to participate in and support the network itself 1st and foremost, like people who fold or run [email protected] and never get paid. The coins you earn are there to offset your operating cost, not to make you rich. Early adopters are rewarded for having foresight if the coin value appreciates over time.

In the mid to long term, only those with the cheapest power and larger scale will be able to profit from mining. This is what happened with Bitcoin and Litecoin. Im talking about warehouses filled with thousands of GPUs paying less than $0.05 per kWh. If you are mining at home enjoy it while it lasts because it won't, this is how a free market works.

Only AMD themselves are responsible for the current shortage. They saw 5870s and 6970s sell for Bitcoin mining. They saw 7970s & R9 290s sell for Litecoin mining. They could have made a mining card years ago to save stock for the gamers, but lets be real a sale is a sale they don't care who buys the cards. Its like the guy who buys the new iPhone every year to make a video on YouTube where he destroys it. Apple counts that as a sale, nothing more nothing less.

I think Intel should make make a 7nm 10nm or 14nm Bitcoin ASIC and destory that market, it would beat anything from the competition and they could sell it for $1000+ and sell more of those than some tired old "just a little bit better than last years" CPU. Their fabs are still way ahead of anyone else but TSMC and the like are catching up since they are all closing in on the physical limits of silicon.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Update to this thread:
Quote:


> Used GPUs flood the market as Ethereum's price crashes below $150
> 
> Over the past few months, there has been a GPU shortage, forcing the prices of mid-range graphics cards up as cryptocurrency miners from across the world purchased hardware in bulk in search for quick and easy profits.
> 
> This has forced the prices of most modern AMD and certain Nvidia GPUs to skyrocket, but now these GPUs are starting to saturate the used market as more and more Ethereum miners sell up and quit mining. Some other miners are starting to look at other emerging Cryptocurrencies, though it is clear that the hype behind Ethereum is dying down.
> 
> Earlier this week Ethereum's value dropped below $200, as soon as the currency experienced a new difficulty spike, making the currency 20% harder to mine and significantly less profitable. This combined with its decrease in value has made mining Ethereum unprofitable for many miners, especially in regions with higher than average electricity costs.
> 
> Now Ethereum is valued at less than $150, with the currency costing $134.97 at the time of writing, which is less than half of the currency's peak value. The currency has the potential to bounce back, though it is difficult to see the currency go back over £250 in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> On second-hand sales websites like eBay and Gumtree, we have seen a lot of new GPU listing appear in recent days, with plenty of used AMD RX series GPUs appearing over the weekend. More hardware is expected to hit these sites over the coming days as some miners wind down their operations, though many will simply move to a more profitable currency or to invest their computing power into an emerging Cryptocurrency that has the prospect of high values in the future.
> 
> These developments will decrease demand for new GPUs from miners and will flood the used market with mining hardware, which should allow GPU pricing to return to normal levels in the near future. Sadly there remains the possibility for Ethereum to make some form of resurgence, or for another cryptocurrency to take its place.
> 
> In recent weeks websites like eBay and Gumtree have been relatively bare of GPUs, with this week seeing a huge uptick in the number of new AMD RX listings, though pricing is still sitting well above AMD's MSRP. It is worth noting that we see more GPUs listing appearing in the EU than the US, potentially due to differing electricity costs and other variables that affect the profitability of mining.
> 
> The sad fact of the matter is that this situation will likely happen again and again moving forward, with Bitcoin and Ethereum setting up an irritating trend for the gaming market. The drive for greater GPU efficiency will only make mining easier and newer, smarter cryptocurrencies will continue to be developed, which means that GPU-based mining will never truly die off in the foreseeable future.


https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/used_gpus_flood_the_market_as_ethereum_s_price_crashes_below_150/1


----------



## epic1337

they should've folded before the collapse, since late comers will still pick up those cards for a nice price.
now that a lot of users are folding at the same time the prices won't be as high as before.


----------



## Pro3ootector

Yeah RX 570 stil costs around 2200 pln polish currency, while i have payed for my RX 480 8GB 1300 pln, and that was like in the day it relased.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Prices dropped due to investors cashing out and speculation over a fork in the bitcoin blockchain. They big three (BTC,ETH,LTC) are all rebounding.


Once again I'm not surprised at all. All the crypto currency prices are once again driven mainly by speculators, and as soon as the main users of said currency experience issues, the prices plummet and then rebound to an extent once a new use is found, then plummet and rebound, and plummet and rebound, over and over and over.

All because of speculators, and once people figure out that the operating costs of mining become higher than the amount mined, aside from those who support the currency itself (as someone else mentioned) the prices will plummet and stay down, until once again speculators try and get in and a new use is found for said crypto.

Its basically a giant yo-yo that eventually will fail to bounce back up once the bearings run out (I love yo-yos.)


----------



## Pro3ootector

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Once again I'm not surprised at all. All the crypto currency prices are once again driven mainly by speculators, and as soon as the main users of said currency experience issues, the prices plummet and then rebound to an extent once a new use is found, then plummet and rebound, and plummet and rebound, over and over and over.
> 
> All because of speculators, and once people figure out that the operating costs of mining become higher than the amount mined, aside from those who support the currency itself (as someone else mentioned) the prices will plummet and stay down, until once again speculators try and get in and a new use is found for said crypto.
> 
> Its basically a giant yo-yo that eventually will fail to bounce back up once the bearings run out (I love yo-yos.)


There is an app for that:



_The NiceHash application will benchmark your GPUs to see what settings are optimal for each miner, and automatically switch from currency to currency, depending on the demand they are getting from buyers.

We've been running this application a bit around the office, and I'm impressed at how well it works. NiceHash does take about a 3% cut in the middle, and you aren't going to make the absolute maximum profit possible with your hardware but I think it's pretty close overall. For the convenience of just turning on the application (you can even set it to activate after detecting your PC idle for a certain amount of time), it seems to be worth it for me._

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/Lets-Talk-About-Mining-Cryptocurrency-revisited

app:

https://www.nicehash.com


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Its basically a giant yo-yo that eventually will fail to bounce back up once the bearings run out (I love yo-yos.)


Most speculators will head to greener pastures once volatility dies down, but the cryptos that have the utility or inertia to stick around for the long term won't fail to bounce back up, they'll fail to see prior lows.


----------



## illusive snpr

Good. Let me buy your cheap 1070s. Difficulty reset is incoming and the year end valuation is looking promising. Only noobs are bailing.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So anyone holding into ETH and how much?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So anyone holding into ETH and how much?


Half of what I bought at 156 I still had because their requirements to do it via bank account after a certain amount. I won't say how much, but if it stays above 230 I'm going to make a pretty penny ;-)


----------



## Rayleyne

Good i need to find 2 cheap RX 480 referance 8GB models


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Most speculators will head to greener pastures once volatility dies down, but the cryptos that have the utility or inertia to stick around for the long term won't fail to bounce back up, they'll fail to see prior lows.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one because I think newer, "better", cryptos will come around to take their place, which will then bounce up and down with the volatility, and then be replaced by newer, "better", cryptos, and on and on the cycle will go.

This is just my opinion. Obviously with such a volatile market and with such a new....medium of exchange, these things are a bit hard to predict (not like currency valuation, like my friend does for work), but I could be wrong. But again, this is a medium of exchange FOR a medium of exchange (real currency), so I personally don't see the vast majority of these things sticking around too long.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

ETH and BTC are to big to fail.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> ETH and BTC are to big to fail.


I disagree with this position so much that I cannot even fit enough words into a post to state just how much.


----------



## spinFX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> Good i need to find 2 cheap RX 480 referance 8GB models


Yeah, or even look for 570's and 580's because you know they can't have been mining for *that* long.
Few full rigs on ebay if you're willing to buy 6 cards at once








edit: seems people are still trying to sell some rigs at the peak price! They seem pretty optimistic


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pro3ootector*
> 
> Yeah RX 570 stil costs around 2200 pln polish currency, while i have payed for my RX 480 8GB 1300 pln, and that was like in the day it relased.


Retail prices tend not to fall that fast. It takes time to work down the chain with supply and demand.


----------



## rudyae86

What bothers me the most is that people on ebay are still paying way above the MSRP price from these video cards. Do they even internet bro?


----------



## r9miner

ebay has always been a haven for etards and scammers, regular items sell above Amazon/Newegg prices all the time and I see people bid higher on auctions than the same item buy it now prices sometimes.

It just gets alot worse on any product that has a shortage or high demand. If the seller fees weren't so high (10% for the average user, sale price and shipping price combined) these cards wouldn't need to be marked up as much.


----------



## Mirotvorez113

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r9miner*
> 
> ebay has always been a haven for etards and scammers, regular items sell above Amazon/Newegg prices all the time and I see people bid higher on auctions than the same item buy it now prices sometimes.
> 
> It just gets alot worse on any product that has a shortage or high demand. If the seller fees weren't so high (10% for the average user, sale price and shipping price combined) these cards wouldn't need to be marked up as much.


All true. The real problem is that there is no alternative.


----------



## Pro3ootector

Used RX 570 still costs way more than RX 480 when it was new ( 333$ that i had payed on lunch day to support AMD )


----------



## kmac20

As someone about to do a new build,

is the market really that bad as a result? Like, really really that bad? I find it almost unbelievable that prices are pushed this high by miners, especially when you consider they have specialized mining boards/cards that aren't like true mid/high end gpus that perform just as efficiently in medium to large farms.

Again I'm about to build a new rig, is it worth like maybe waiting on a nice card and using my old 7850 or 88GT till we see price drops later on in the year?

(Side note: also cannot believe how expensive RAM is currently. Is that gonna fall too? Because 8/16gb of DDR4 is like over 100$ at microcenter, and the ryzen processor I want is about 200, soooooooo the ram is half as expensive as the processor now a days? I remember when I build this one RAM was like 40-50$ for 8GB.....)

Essentially, am I better off holding off on purchasing everything till prices in said categories fall?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> As someone about to do a new build,
> 
> is the market really that bad as a result? Like, really really that bad? I find it almost unbelievable that prices are pushed this high by miners, especially when you consider they have specialized mining boards/cards that aren't like true mid/high end gpus that perform just as efficiently in medium to large farms.
> 
> Again I'm about to build a new rig, is it worth like maybe waiting on a nice card and using my old 7850 or 88GT till we see price drops later on in the year?
> 
> (Side note: also cannot believe how expensive RAM is currently. Is that gonna fall too? Because 8/16gb of DDR4 is like over 100$ at microcenter, and the ryzen processor I want is about 200, soooooooo the ram is half as expensive as the processor now a days? I remember when I build this one RAM was like 40-50$ for 8GB.....)
> 
> Essentially, am I better off holding off on purchasing everything till prices in said categories fall?


Yes you should wait 2 to 4 months before buying a PSU or GPU


----------



## Gilles3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> As someone about to do a new build,
> *snip*


Along with the mining crazy, there's also the DRAM and NAND flash shortage, that's why prices on RAM and SSD's are also high. If you can wait, you probably should.

Right now is pretty much the worst time to be building a PC.


----------



## kmac20

I was actually at microcenter today talking to the guy, and he told me that the mining craze has shifted prices so much its almost unbelievable. He essentially told me to wait to get a GPU, and that the prices at microcenter have shot up hard core as a result (which also he cannot understand given the meager amount of money most people make off of even several rigs mining simultaneously: we were talking for awhile).

Like I saw the price for one card and it was about like 770$, and this isn't like a "2 cards together" type card, and even if it is like the prices are somewhat obscene at microcenter for GPUs anyway. I have NEVER bought a GPU at microcenter because they tend to be the ONLY component of a new rig that they have terrible prices on: their CPUs, their motherboards, the combos of the two, their RAM, ALWAYS better than online stores like newegg, tigerdirect, etc. But their GPUs? NEVER good prices, like ever. And i've been going there for years.

So when the people at microcenter are telling me about price swings regarding this stuff, its really just mind numbing to me how annoying and stupid this fad is . They also agreed with me though that its only a matter of time till the craze dies down and said probably within a couple months the prices will be back to normal, at the store at least (because at this point, not only will new cards be out and people not be buying the new ones, as they wont really increase profits significantly over the existing ones people are using, but also in my opinion as i've stated the mining craze is going to fade eventually, as again profits are outweighed by operating costs). Also as people wise up and buy like certain products intentionally made for mining over GPUs people are allocating to mining, the prices will fall again. He said probably within about 2 months or so prices there will get back to a somewhat reasonable level.

LUCKY FOR ME, I already have a new Corsair 750 HX that I got about a year or so ago FOR AN AMAZING PRICE (it was on sale at microcenter), that I've been running a barebones board with integrated graphics off of, so I have a new, great PSU thats gonna last for quite some time. I also have a good SSD and I can wait to get a larger size one till the prices on those plummet, although the prices for SSDs at microcenter are not really up at all_(I am assuming they bought large amounts of stock BEFORE the NAND shortage.)_

As for GPUs, if my 7850 isn't fried I actually will use that till the prices drop. If it is fried I have no choice but to either get a new one or even get some piece of junk one for like 100$ until the prices on the good ones drop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilles3000*
> 
> Along with the mining crazy, there's also the DRAM and NAND flash shortage, that's why prices on RAM and SSD's are also high. If you can wait, you probably should.
> 
> Right now is pretty much the worst time to be building a PC.


And yeah I noticed the DRAM shortage affecting prices there. What used to be like 80$ worth of RAM is now like 115$ there. So regardless of my current finances, it looks like I'm gonna be waiting about 2 months to do this build just as a result of the RAM shortages from overseas more than anything. At least again, regarding parts from microcenter. I'm never grabbing a GPU from them cause their prices are not on par with elsewhere, but for every single other part, from closed loop CPU coolers to cases to the CPU and board combos, i'm buying it all at once to get the best discounts and in about 2 months when prices for(almost) everything are closer or back down to normal.

_Unfortunately_, I cannot wait much longer as *I have a PC with a shot motherboard thats running off of the integrated graphics of a 3570k with every single case fan dead except the front one and a side panel held on with duct tape.* So yeah, gotta do a build soon. But probably about 2 months from now is when I'll pick everything up, as thats when the 1600/1600xs will drop a slight bit in price, and hopefully the RAM shortage has eased up or disappeared.

But yeah, when you have a case that still has a top mounted PSU spot, a half dead motherboard, and a side panel with duct tape on it, you cant really afford to wait much longer whether or not prices are less than optimal


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> As someone about to do a new build,
> 
> is the market really that bad as a result? Like, really really that bad? I find it almost unbelievable that prices are pushed this high by miners, especially when you consider they have specialized mining boards/cards that aren't like true mid/high end gpus that perform just as efficiently in medium to large farms.


There is mining boards?

Sure there is mining graphics cards, however they cant be resold when the cards are no longer worth running lol.

Here is the easy example.

Buy 10 GTX 1070s at 300 a piece 3000 invested, Mine till it is no longer worth it, sell cards on ebay for 200 each, 2000 dollar return, Plus mining profits.

That is why they use gaming cards and will NEVER EVER use a "Mining Card", as they can sell the old 1070, for almost what they payed a year later.

Same exact thing that happened with the 290s/290xs, except this time its affecting Nvidia as well.


----------



## Caldeio

rx580 is 375 at local bestbuy.
1050ti, is 175 and the only thing in stock for weeks.


----------



## kmac20

When I said that I think I should have been more clear and said that they have custom built systems running fairly efficient hardware and software (think rasberry pi like pieces of equipment) that are already being sold specifically for mining. Guy at microcenter said they would be getting some pieces of hardware along these lines, and that they'd be up for sale reasonably soon (within a few months give or take).

And I do not feel the reselling of the cards should be factored into that equation in the way you put it, as most people I know, including lots of people I know who shop at microcenter and even of the opinions of the employees working there fall in along this line of thinking), are going to buy a card that has been used for a year for 200$, which is what the price should have been in the first place.

This is just people I know, I guess I could be wrong and other people out there are willing to do it. But if you told me I should pay 200$ for a card that has been used essentially 24/7 for an entire year at a price of 200$, when the price should have been 200$ (or lets say 300$) when its new, I'd tell you that idea is crazy and that I would never, ever, do that.

God mining is such a joke I really cannot wait for it to go the way of the dodo bird. Everyone can disagree with me all they want this is (obviously) just my perspective on it, and I feel it will happen sooner or later. I just really hope its sooner, for the sake of everyone who likes to build computers to do things other than sit in the corner doing nothing but running programs to mine bitcoins.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> When I said that I think I should have been more clear and said that they have custom built systems running fairly efficient hardware and software (think rasberry pi like pieces of equipment) that are already being sold specifically for mining. Guy at microcenter said they would be getting some pieces of hardware along these lines, and that they'd be up for sale reasonably soon (within a few months give or take).
> 
> And I do not feel the reselling of the cards should be factored into that equation in the way you put it, as most people I know, including lots of people I know who shop at microcenter and even of the opinions of the employees working there fall in along this line of thinking), are going to buy a card that has been used for a year for 200$, which is what the price should have been in the first place.
> 
> This is just people I know, I guess I could be wrong and other people out there are willing to do it. But if you told me I should pay 200$ for a card that has been used essentially 24/7 for an entire year at a price of 200$, when the price should have been 200$ (or lets say 300$) when its new, I'd tell you that idea is crazy and that I would never, ever, do that.
> 
> God mining is such a joke I really cannot wait for it to go the way of the dodo bird. Everyone can disagree with me all they want this is (obviously) just my perspective on it, and I feel it will happen sooner or later. I just really hope its sooner, for the sake of everyone who likes to build computers to do things other than sit in the corner doing nothing but running programs to mine bitcoins.


Well few things here, you have a better chance of a mining card not needing to be RMAed for a very very long time. Being ran at a constant temperature 24/7 is actually by miles less hard on the card that gaming, that is constantly changing temps. It will however find errors faster, but as far as damage to card, gaming is worse, so you have a well vetted card, for a good deal, that will run for years.

1070s LAUNCH retail price is 350? That card was never meant to be 200 new lol. It was meant to be 350.

EDIT: Im sorry, 1070s launched at 379.99. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review

Again, what you think people will buy or wont is pretty irrelevant. As someone who bought 5 290/xs at the end of the last mining craze for 200 each, and seeing a lot of familiar faces here that did the same, in this very thread. Sorry to say you are super duper wrong. BTW for the record, all those 290/xs were ran at super overkill voltages with custom bioses, then sold off to friends and my brother in law. Every single one of them is still running like a Champ as of today, EVERY ONE!

EVERY SINGLE CARD FOR 200 WILL SELL! And FAST! Have to emphasize that, you can think they wont, and you will be wrong.

Moving on, Mining Requires power, lots of compute power, CPUs can not even mine like GPUs can. There is GPUs that are better for mining, and more efficient at it, they cant be resold. Rasberry PIs are not good for mining lol. Not at all is that realistic, you know how many 100s you would need to match a few GPUs?

I told you exactly what the miners do, I even know a few. I am sorry you do not think that is reality. It is, that is the best way to do it, there is literally hundreds of guides on the internet saying do exactly what I just said.

To be clear, Micro Center employees are just that, Employees, most of them have zero idea what they are talking about lol. Yes nvidia is making some mining cards, which have been talked about for a while, guess what, NO ONE WILL BUY THEM, They Cannot be Resold!

When those GPUs are no longer efficient for mining, you throw it away, that was its only use. A Gaming Card, can and will sell to Gamers. To give you an idea, one guy I bought 2 of my cards from for 165 each, for 290s, it was his last 2 of 200 cards, that listing of 200 cards at 165 each lasted 3 days before I bought the last 2.

And maybe you will hate me for this, but I will tell you right now, when 1070s are going for 200 each, Ill buy 4-6 just like I did before my HTPCs would love some Pascal Love.


----------



## mr2cam

I was gonna say, I had dual 290xs that mined litecoin for months 24/7, and they are still alive today and still overclock to the exact same as when I bought them. Wondering if computer components are similar to car components, I work in the auto industry and change in temperature kills 99% of car parts, they do not like going from a mild temp to an extreme temp overnight.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> I was gonna say, I had dual 290xs that mined litecoin for months 24/7, and they are still alive today and still overclock to the exact same as when I bought them. Wondering if computer components are similar to car components, I work in the auto industry and change in temperature kills 99% of car parts, they do not like going from a mild temp to an extreme temp overnight.


Yes the parts and even silicon does not like the ramp up and down that is harder on them then a constant temp.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> Yes the parts and even silicon does not like the ramp up and down that is harder on them then a constant temp.


Agreed. All of my miners are on large custom water loops. Temperature is constant and rather low.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one because I think newer, "better", cryptos will come around to take their place, which will then bounce up and down with the volatility, and then be replaced by newer, "better", cryptos, and on and on the cycle will go.


I don't really expect any of the cryptos we have today to be permanent, but in the mid-term, the ones with sufficient technical merits and utility will hang around for quite some time. Many of them will also be replaced in an orderly fashion, because they are dominated by a few entities with mutual interests. When something better for their needs does come along, they will all transition simultaneously, taking the stake they had in the prior incarnation with them.


----------



## whitrzac

I saw a wild 570 today, for the lol lol price of $320

Even comes with a bb exclusive backplate so they wont price match


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I don't really expect any of the cryptos we have today to be permanent, but in the mid-term, the ones with sufficient technical merits and utility will hang around for quite some time. Many of them will also be replaced in an orderly fashion, because they are dominated by a few entities with mutual interests. When something better for their needs does come along, they will all transition simultaneously, taking the stake they had in the prior incarnation with them.


When we talk finance, mid term is 2 to 5 years... Long term is 10 years... I waited until this year to get into crypto to see if it was going to be mid term and fizzle out.. It's not.. Until all black markets shut down, cryptocurrencies will exist and since all black markets can never be shut down I don't see any way that crytpocurrencies do not exist in the long term financial future.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> When we talk finance, mid term is 2 to 5 years... Long term is 10 years... I waited until this year to get into crypto to see if it was going to be mid term and fizzle out.. It's not.. Until all black markets shut down, cryptocurrencies will exist and since all black markets can never be shut down I don't see any way that crytpocurrencies do not exist in the long term financial future.


Most cryptos aren't at all dependent on blackmarket transactions, most aren't even particularly well suited to them.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Most cryptos aren't at all dependent on blackmarket transactions, most aren't even particularly well suited to them.


But they would fall back on them if the general market stopped accepting them, that's the point. It can't fizzle out unless the black market stops using them and they won't. The ability to keep transactions anonymous is just too good.


----------



## rluker5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> When we talk finance, mid term is 2 to 5 years... Long term is 10 years... I waited until this year to get into crypto to see if it was going to be mid term and fizzle out.. It's not.. Until all black markets shut down, cryptocurrencies will exist and since all black markets can never be shut down I don't see any way that crytpocurrencies do not exist in the long term financial future.


While it is true that all of the black markets can never be shut down, cryptocurrencies effectively can be if enough of the free parts of the world join the not so free to cut down on crime, tax evasion, wealth transfer out of a country, govt greed, whatever the excuse. If an asset is made illegal it can be seized. Stopping exchanges and retailers would be adequate and I think this guy: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/justice-department-announces-takedown-of-alphabay-the-largest-dark-web-market/ knows it.

I'm not saying it is right or will happen, just that it could.


----------



## Echoa

Good news for me, can't wait to grab another rx470 to crossfire for cheap


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Most cryptos aren't at all dependent on blackmarket transactions, most aren't even particularly well suited to them.


Yes they are in fact well suited to them, and in fact they are dependent on crypto currencies for transactions.

The Silk Road was probably at the time the largest base of bitcoin users.

If you've never been on or seen how these websites operate, you might not understand just how vital they are to the function of black market transactions. If you have been on these websites and seen how they operate, you should easily realize how necessary they are for the vast majority of the users.

And once again when Silk Road went down and everyone tried to cash out at Mt Gox, Mt Gox couldn't meet the demand so they took the money and ran.

They're all a yo yo, and as the guy who responded to me also stated, as soon as a better one that suits everyones needs better arrives, they all will jump ship and on to the next and so on and so on and so on.

And to respond to the guy saying that people at microcenter are just employees, of course they are. But when I ask said employees what cards they have at a good price and they tell me "none find one online" thats usually a pretty good sign. They get commission off of it there and they're tell me not to buy any, sooo..... And you also forget the people you run into at microcenter who are NOT employees and who are there just to find parts, just like I am, telling me similar things. When a commissioned employee is telling you NOT to buy something they get commission off of, that tells me they prefer to have trust with the customer than make a few bucks. Which in the long term pays off, because if the guy had told me 'oh yeah come get this 1080TI for 770$ its a GREAT deal I would have laughed in his face and intentionally ordered off the website for in store pickup so he wouldn't get a cent on the commission.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> And to respond to the guy saying that people at microcenter are just employees, of course they are. But when I ask said employees what cards they have at a good price and they tell me "none find one online" thats usually a pretty good sign. They get commission off of it there and they're tell me not to buy any, sooo..... And you also forget the people you run into at microcenter who are NOT employees and who are there just to find parts, just like I am, telling me similar things. When a commissioned employee is telling you NOT to buy something they get commission off of, that tells me they prefer to have trust with the customer than make a few bucks. Which in the long term pays off, because if the guy had told me 'oh yeah come get this 1080TI for 770$ its a GREAT deal I would have laughed in his face and intentionally ordered off the website for in store pickup so he wouldn't get a cent on the commission.


When did anyone say that GPUs are not currently overpriced? That was never said, lol.

You stated:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> (which also he cannot understand given the meager amount of money most people make off of even several rigs mining simultaneously: we were talking for awhile).


This is wrong and shows he doesn't have a clue, from what I have seen, at the start of this, GTX 1070s were making 10 dollars per day +, that is per card per day. 30 days the card has paid off, 60 and its doubled its value. Times that by 10 cards, 20 cards, 200 cards. 20 cards, at 10 dollars a day, is 200 dollars a day, that is more than a lot make at work per day, for doing, NOTHING. That btw is 6000 a month, for doing, well, nothing?

I would hardly call that "Meager" amounts of money lol. They likely make more from mining, then he makes for working lol.

You also stated:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Also as people wise up and buy like certain products intentionally made for mining over GPUs people are allocating to mining, the prices will fall again. He said probably within about 2 months or so prices there will get back to a somewhat reasonable level.


Again, WRONG. No one will buy "Mining Hardware" when GPUs do just as well and can and do Resell, I dont care what you or the Microcenter Employees think, if they resell or not. They do that has been proven it is a fact.

You went on:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> When I said that I think I should have been more clear and said that they have custom built systems running fairly efficient hardware and software (think rasberry pi like pieces of equipment) that are already being sold specifically for mining. Guy at microcenter said they would be getting some pieces of hardware along these lines, and that they'd be up for sale reasonably soon (within a few months give or take).


They may very well get mining hardware, and thats fine. However no one is going buy it. For the reasons I have told you. There is posts on this forum and others about those machines, and people stating I AM NOT BUYING IT.

You keep thinking that resale of the GPUs is irrelevant and that you and the Microcenter Employees both think that. I am here to tell you, without a shadow of a doubt you are wrong.

So then you said:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> God mining is such a joke I really cannot wait for it to go the way of the dodo bird. Everyone can disagree with me all they want this is (obviously) just my perspective on it, and I feel it will happen sooner or later. I just really hope its sooner, for the sake of everyone who likes to build computers to do things other than sit in the corner doing nothing but running programs to mine bitcoins.


I think this is where this is all coming from. You want to believe that people will buy the mining systems and not GPUs. Well sorry to burst that bubble they wont. This is not the first time this has happened and it wont be the last.

You are have way right, Mining with the current cards, will become unprofitable, 100%. Then Ebay will be flooded with used cards, and new cards will go back to the normal price. Then once the next set of GPUs come out, it will start all over again.

On top of that, Nvidia and AMD will continue to raise prices, and there cards will fly off the shelves to miners, and they can then raise prices again, and again. You are right, Gamers get the bad end of this, and it sucks. That doesn't mean it will change, that doesn't mean that Nvidia or AMD want it to, whether they say they do or not.

They may say they dont like it, lets be honest, they are in business, to make money. When they are selling more cards then they can make, that is good business.

Those statements were why I said they were microcenter employees. Sure they know cards are overpriced, sure they know that mining hardware is coming. No one disputed that.

They do not know anything about mining, they do not know anything about Resale of GPUs, those things are proven by what they have told you.

I would suggest you go to the mining section of the forum, and read some posts and news threads there. You will quickly see, everything you think you know about mining, is completely wrong.

If you want to theorize the state of mining, what miners want, what miners do, ect, ect, listen to the miners that are telling you, in this thread. Or go read the threads in the miners forums, to learn.

I am not a miner, but as I have a vested interest in it, to pick up used GPUs, I try and familiarize myself about the whats and whys, and the current state.


----------



## mr2cam

I have a friend that just bought 1,500 gtx 1070s wholesale for eth mining, just crazy


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> I have a friend that just bought 1,500 gtx 1070s wholesale for eth mining, just crazy


This late in the game? I'm not sure that's a good idea... At current eth prices/difficulty, it's gonna take a long time to pay off, if ever.

But he/she will be OK as long as those 1070s mine other currencies later


----------



## mr2cam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> This late in the game? I'm not sure that's a good idea... At current eth prices/difficulty, it's gonna take a long time to pay off, if ever.
> 
> But he/she will be OK as long as those 1070s mine other currencies later


Ya I thought it was a bit strange to get that many for ETH, right now the 1070s will make more $ mining zcash, I know him through a friend, not sure if he is trying to hold on to as much ETH as he can until it goes to proof of stake or what. I thought I was crazy for having 9 cards mining


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Yes they are in fact well suited to them, and in fact they are dependent on crypto currencies for transactions.


Most blockchains are a hindrance to anonymity as they are a complete and public record of all transactions. It takes a great deal of effort to truly obfuscate one's use of most cryptos. A postal money order, or cash in the mail, is considerably more anonymous than most BTC transactions.

The largest cryptos aren't primarily used for black market transactions and haven't been for some time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> The Silk Road was probably at the time the largest base of bitcoin users.


Times have changed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> This late in the game? I'm not sure that's a good idea... At current eth prices/difficulty, it's gonna take a long time to pay off, if ever.


It's likely an investment.

ETH isn't going anywhere any time soon, and even if profitability is modest now, it's a safe bet we haven't seen anywhere near peak prices.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> Ya I thought it was a bit strange to get that many for ETH, right now the 1070s will make more $ mining zcash, I know him through a friend, not sure if he is trying to hold on to as much ETH as he can until it goes to proof of stake or what. I thought I was crazy for having 9 cards mining


That is a lot of 1070s, I just want 18 of them.

I am not sure how this POS implementation is going to work. I understand the idea but the reality of moving the network and transactions seem like it is going to take awhile. The ETH code guy says it will only be one block out of 100 that will be POS to start. Seems like a big gamble.

With Alphabay and Hansa gone one might think demand would decrease. This past weekend should help break the idea of crypto depending on darknet markets. The markets are dependent on crypto, sure. The volumes traded on those markets are a small portion of what is traded daily. BTC has traded over $213M in volume the past 24 hours. What percentage of that was illicit? Hard to say.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> Because the pilots do nothing but complain about solar power, it's obviously really, really blinding in a cockpit flying over ?


have you driven by there yourself? The thing is INSANELY bright. You cant even really look in its direction because it is basically like looking directly at the sun.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EniGma1987*
> 
> have you driven by there yourself? The thing is INSANELY bright. You cant even really look in its direction because it is basically like looking directly at the sun.


well, you're technically looking at sunlight, even a small mirror reflecting sunlight could "blind" someone.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> well, you're technically looking at sunlight, even a small mirror reflecting sunlight could "blind" someone.


well yes. Im not talking about looking at the mirrors though. All those mirrors focus the sunlight into a tight spot in the boiling chamber. That chamber looks like a minature sun. It even has a giant heat corona around it and everything. lol


----------



## Yetyhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> I have a friend that just bought 1,500 gtx 1070s wholesale for eth mining, just crazy


Just to be sure, one thousand five hundred GTX 1700's ??? That's like 750 000 $


----------



## Rayleyne

I really can;t wait for crypto's to die out honestly, Everyone here is saying they are the greatest thing ever

Only one of the websites i activily visit (and i visit alot) Accepts bitcoin, Let alone any of the "alternative coins" And it took them a long time for it and it isn't exactly what i would call a 'legit' website, None of the Estores i go to accept bitcoin or alt coins, None of the physical stores i go to accept bitcoin or alt coins so in reality all this crypto crap has done for me is make gpu prices skyrocket and piss me off.

And no, I am not a miner either.


----------



## Causality1978

i start think buy two 1070 - 1030eu . they can get 60mh/s .. ? so
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/eth?HashingPower=60&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=0&CostPerkWh=0.0








1440 usd after year if you have free electr...








waiting for roi one year. lol . yes if is prices like before 199usd for 480x amd -.. ok


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Most blockchains are a hindrance to anonymity as they are a complete and public record of all transactions. It takes a great deal of effort to truly obfuscate one's use of most cryptos. A postal money order, or cash in the mail, is considerably more anonymous than most BTC transactions.
> 
> The largest cryptos aren't primarily used for black market transactions and haven't been for some time.
> Times have changed.
> It's likely an investment.
> 
> ETH isn't going anywhere any time soon, and even if profitability is modest now, it's a safe bet we haven't seen anywhere near peak prices.


A postal/money order is way less secure, as it involves you going to a business that has tons of security cameras and getting a money order that says where and when it was created making looking up your face as you just went to a bank/post office/check casher and walked by about a dozen security cameras.

It is very easy to use bitcoins anonymously. That is why they were used on the largest drug website ever. That is why the man who ran said drug site still has over 50-100 million dollars worth of bitcoins hidden from the Feds. And this is why crypto currencies are utilized to engage in tax fraud, embezzlement and thievery.

Why is there a paper published by people at the University of Kentucky essentially stating that the vast majority of bitcoin users are anonymous and incredibly hard to track down? https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2518603

Ask yourself this: if its SO EASY to find someone who uses bitcoins, why have millions of dollars of them been stolen/hacked/etc and never recovered. Why did 50 million dollars of ethereum get stolen and no one has still found the person who stole it, relatively early in the block chain.

They are called crypto currencies for a reason. I dont get how anyone can argue with the fact that they are designed to avoid and evade government scrutiny. These are huge speculator markets of a medium exchanged heavily favored by those seeking to avoid government oversight. I do not understand how anyone can really argue either of these points. It should be obvious by any logical conclusion that not only are these HUGE speculator markets that will crash as soon as people find a newer, more secure cryptocurrency that fulfills their needs, but that also said cryptocurrencies are mainly used for illicit transactions. This should be a simple logical conclusion of the design of the currencies, and of the programming behind them.


----------



## mr2cam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yetyhunter*
> 
> Just to be sure, one thousand five hundred GTX 1700's ??? That's like 750 000 $


They about 3 million invested so far, they also have a ton of RX580s.. Crazy


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr2cam*
> 
> They about 3 million invested so far, they also have a ton of RX580s.. Crazy


That is crazy. But, not so crazy after the units pay for themselves and start churning large profits.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Ask yourself this: if its SO EASY to find someone who uses bitcoins, why have millions of dollars of them been stolen/hacked/etc and never recovered. Why did 50 million dollars of ethereum get stolen and no one has still found the person who stole it, relatively early in the block chain.


Knowing where the money went is a far cry from being able to do anything about it.

Regardless, I never implied it was always easy to pin a BTC transaction to a face...it just takes more work to make one truly anonymous than it does for much more common means that have long predated cryptocurrencies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> They are called crypto currencies for a reason.


Not for the reasons you're implying.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> I really can;t wait for crypto's to die out honestly, Everyone here is saying they are the greatest thing ever
> 
> Only one of the websites i activily visit (and i visit alot) Accepts bitcoin, Let alone any of the "alternative coins" And it took them a long time for it and it isn't exactly what i would call a 'legit' website, None of the Estores i go to accept bitcoin or alt coins, None of the physical stores i go to accept bitcoin or alt coins so in reality all this crypto crap has done for me is make gpu prices skyrocket and piss me off.
> 
> And no, I am not a miner either.


Newegg accepts bitcoin.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> Newegg accepts bitcoin.


Not really relevant over here in australia unless something changed recently., But hey that makes 2 non legit websites, And a legit website, Bitcoin started what in 2012?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> Newegg accepts bitcoin.


I've been buying stuff from Newegg with BTC for years.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> Newegg accepts bitcoin.


Dude is in Australia. For him options are limited.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Dude is in Australia. For him options are limited.


I mean...

WordPress.com - An online company that allows user to create free blogs
Overstock.com - A company that sells big ticket items at lower prices due to overstocking
Subway - Eat fresh
Microsoft - Users can buy content with Bitcoin on Xbox and Windows store
Reddit - You can buy premium features there with bitcoins
Virgin Galactic - Richard Branson company that includes Virgin Mobile and Virgin Airline
OkCupid - Online dating site
Tigerdirect - Major electronic online retailer
Namecheap - Domain name registrar
CheapAir.com - Travel booking site for airline tickets, car rentals, hotels
Expedia.com - Online travel booking agency
Gyft - Buy giftcards using Bitcoin
Newegg.com - Online electronics retailer now uses bitpay to accept bitcoin as payment
1-800-FLOWERS.COM - United States based online floral and gift retailer and distributor
Fiverr.com - Get almost anything done for $5
Dell - American privately owned multinational computer technology company
Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia with 4 570 000+ article Steam - Desktop gaming platform
The Internet Archive - web documatation company
Bitcoin.Travel - a travel site that provides accommodation, apartments, attractions, bars, and beauty salons around the world
Pembury Tavern - A pub in London, England
Old Fitzroy - A pub in Sydney, Australia The Pink Cow - A diner in Tokyo, Japan
The Pirate Bay - BitTorrent directories
Zynga - Mobile gaming
Tesla - The car company
4Chan.org - For premium services
EZTV - Torrents TV shows provider
Mega.co.nz - The new venture started by the former owner of MegaUpload Kim Dotcom
Lumfile - Free cloud base file server - pay for premium services
Etsy Vendors - 93 of them
PizzaForCoins.com - Domino's Pizza signed up - pay for their pizza with bitcons
Whole Foods - Organic food store (by purchasing gift card from Gyft)
Bitcoincoffee.com - Buy your favorite coffee online
Grass Hill Alpacas - A local farm in Haydenville, MA
Jeffersons Store - A street wear clothing store in Bergenfield, N.J
Helen's Pizza - Jersey City, N.J., you can get a slice of pizza for 0.00339 bitcoin by pointing your phone at a sign next to the cash register
A Class Limousine - Pick you up and drop you off at Newark (N.J.) Airport
Seoclerks.com - Get SEO work done on your site cheap
Mint.com - Mint pulls all your financial accounts into one place. Set a budget, track your goals and do more
Fancy.com - Discover amazing stuff, collect the things you love, buy it all in one place (Source: Fancy)
Bloomberg.com - Online newspaper
Humblebundle.com - Indie game site
BigFishGames.com - Games for PC, Mac and Smartphones (iPhone, Android, Windows)
Suntimes.com - Chicago based online newspaper
San Jose Earthquakes - San Jose California Professional Soccer Team (MLS)
Square - Payment processor that help small businesses accept credit cards using iPhone, Android or iPad
Crowdtilt.com - The fastest and easiest way to pool funds with family and friends (Source: crowdtilt)
Lumfile - Server company that offers free cloud-based servers
Museum of the Coastal Bend - 2200 East Red River Street, Victoria, Texas 77901, USA
Home Depot - Office supplies store
Kmart - Retail products store
Sears - Clothing and household products, electronic store
Gap, GameStop and JC Penney - have to use eGifter.com
Etsy Vendors - Original art and Jewelry creations
Fight for the Future - Leading organization finding for Internet freedom
i-Pmart (ipmart.com.my) - A Malaysian online mobile phone and electronic parts retailer
curryupnow.com - A total of 12 restaurants on the list of restaurants accept bitcoins in San Francisco Bay Area
Dish Network - An American direct-broadcast satellite service provider
The Libertarian Party - United States political party
Yacht-base.com - Croatian yacht charter company
Euro Pacific - A major precious metal dealer
CEX - The trade-in chain has a shop in Glasgow, Scotland that accepts bitcoin
Straub Auto Repairs - 477 Warburton Ave, Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706 - (914) 478-1177
PSP Mollie - Dutch Payment Service
Intuit - an American software company that develops financial and tax preparation software and related services for small businesses, accountants and individuals.
ShopJoy - An Australian online retailer that sells novelty and unique gifts
Lv.net - Las Vegas high speed internet services
ExpressVPN.com - High speed, ultra secure VPN network
Grooveshark - Online music streaming service based in the United States
Braintree - Well known payments processor
MIT Coop Store - Massachusetts Institute of Technology student bookstore
SimplePay - Nigeria's most popular web and mobile-based wallet service
SFU bookstore - Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada
mspinc.com - Respiratory medical equipment supplies store
Shopify.com - An online store that allows anyone to sell their products
Famsa - Mexico's biggest retailer
Naughty America - Adult entertainment provider
Mexico's Universidad de las Américas Puebla - A major university in Mexico
LOT Polish Airlines - A worldwide airline based in Poland
MovieTickets.com - Online movie ticket exchange/retailer
Dream Lover - Online relationship service
Lionsgate Films - The production studio behind titles such as The Hunger Games and The Day After Tomorrow
Rakutan - A Japanese e-commerce giant
Badoo - Online dating network
RE/MAX London - UK-based franchisee of the global real estate network
T-Mobile Poland - T-Mobile's Poland-based mobile phone top-up company
Stripe - San Francisco-based payments company
WebJet - Online travel agency
Green Man Gaming - Popular digital game reseller
Save the Children - Global charity organization
NCR Silver - Point of sales systems
One Shot Hotels - Spanish hotel chain
Coupa Café in Palo Alto
PureVPN - VPN provider
That's my face - create action figures
Foodler - North American restaurant delivery company
Amagi Metals - Precious metal furnisher

All accept bitcoin.

Some of those have to be in Australia, just start eating a lot of Subway







.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> Bitcoin started what in 2012?


Early 2009.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Fair enough, I believe he was referring to buying PC hardware. Anyhow, Jared has AIDS.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> I mean...
> 
> WordPress.com - An online company that allows user to create free blogs
> Overstock.com - A company that sells big ticket items at lower prices due to overstocking
> Subway - Eat fresh
> Microsoft - Users can buy content with Bitcoin on Xbox and Windows store
> Reddit - You can buy premium features there with bitcoins
> Virgin Galactic - Richard Branson company that includes Virgin Mobile and Virgin Airline
> OkCupid - Online dating site
> Tigerdirect - Major electronic online retailer
> Namecheap - Domain name registrar
> CheapAir.com - Travel booking site for airline tickets, car rentals, hotels
> Expedia.com - Online travel booking agency
> Gyft - Buy giftcards using Bitcoin
> Newegg.com - Online electronics retailer now uses bitpay to accept bitcoin as payment
> 1-800-FLOWERS.COM - United States based online floral and gift retailer and distributor
> Fiverr.com - Get almost anything done for $5
> Dell - American privately owned multinational computer technology company
> Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia with 4 570 000+ article Steam - Desktop gaming platform
> The Internet Archive - web documatation company
> Bitcoin.Travel - a travel site that provides accommodation, apartments, attractions, bars, and beauty salons around the world
> Pembury Tavern - A pub in London, England
> Old Fitzroy - A pub in Sydney, Australia The Pink Cow - A diner in Tokyo, Japan
> The Pirate Bay - BitTorrent directories
> Zynga - Mobile gaming
> Tesla - The car company
> 4Chan.org - For premium services
> EZTV - Torrents TV shows provider
> Mega.co.nz - The new venture started by the former owner of MegaUpload Kim Dotcom
> Lumfile - Free cloud base file server - pay for premium services
> Etsy Vendors - 93 of them
> PizzaForCoins.com - Domino's Pizza signed up - pay for their pizza with bitcons
> Whole Foods - Organic food store (by purchasing gift card from Gyft)
> Bitcoincoffee.com - Buy your favorite coffee online
> Grass Hill Alpacas - A local farm in Haydenville, MA
> Jeffersons Store - A street wear clothing store in Bergenfield, N.J
> Helen's Pizza - Jersey City, N.J., you can get a slice of pizza for 0.00339 bitcoin by pointing your phone at a sign next to the cash register
> A Class Limousine - Pick you up and drop you off at Newark (N.J.) Airport
> Seoclerks.com - Get SEO work done on your site cheap
> Mint.com - Mint pulls all your financial accounts into one place. Set a budget, track your goals and do more
> Fancy.com - Discover amazing stuff, collect the things you love, buy it all in one place (Source: Fancy)
> Bloomberg.com - Online newspaper
> Humblebundle.com - Indie game site
> BigFishGames.com - Games for PC, Mac and Smartphones (iPhone, Android, Windows)
> Suntimes.com - Chicago based online newspaper
> San Jose Earthquakes - San Jose California Professional Soccer Team (MLS)
> Square - Payment processor that help small businesses accept credit cards using iPhone, Android or iPad
> Crowdtilt.com - The fastest and easiest way to pool funds with family and friends (Source: crowdtilt)
> Lumfile - Server company that offers free cloud-based servers
> Museum of the Coastal Bend - 2200 East Red River Street, Victoria, Texas 77901, USA
> Home Depot - Office supplies store
> Kmart - Retail products store
> Sears - Clothing and household products, electronic store
> Gap, GameStop and JC Penney - have to use eGifter.com
> Etsy Vendors - Original art and Jewelry creations
> Fight for the Future - Leading organization finding for Internet freedom
> i-Pmart (ipmart.com.my) - A Malaysian online mobile phone and electronic parts retailer
> curryupnow.com - A total of 12 restaurants on the list of restaurants accept bitcoins in San Francisco Bay Area
> Dish Network - An American direct-broadcast satellite service provider
> The Libertarian Party - United States political party
> Yacht-base.com - Croatian yacht charter company
> Euro Pacific - A major precious metal dealer
> CEX - The trade-in chain has a shop in Glasgow, Scotland that accepts bitcoin
> Straub Auto Repairs - 477 Warburton Ave, Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706 - (914) 478-1177
> PSP Mollie - Dutch Payment Service
> Intuit - an American software company that develops financial and tax preparation software and related services for small businesses, accountants and individuals.
> ShopJoy - An Australian online retailer that sells novelty and unique gifts
> Lv.net - Las Vegas high speed internet services
> ExpressVPN.com - High speed, ultra secure VPN network
> Grooveshark - Online music streaming service based in the United States
> Braintree - Well known payments processor
> MIT Coop Store - Massachusetts Institute of Technology student bookstore
> SimplePay - Nigeria's most popular web and mobile-based wallet service
> SFU bookstore - Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada
> mspinc.com - Respiratory medical equipment supplies store
> Shopify.com - An online store that allows anyone to sell their products
> Famsa - Mexico's biggest retailer
> Naughty America - Adult entertainment provider
> Mexico's Universidad de las Américas Puebla - A major university in Mexico
> LOT Polish Airlines - A worldwide airline based in Poland
> MovieTickets.com - Online movie ticket exchange/retailer
> Dream Lover - Online relationship service
> Lionsgate Films - The production studio behind titles such as The Hunger Games and The Day After Tomorrow
> Rakutan - A Japanese e-commerce giant
> Badoo - Online dating network
> RE/MAX London - UK-based franchisee of the global real estate network
> T-Mobile Poland - T-Mobile's Poland-based mobile phone top-up company
> Stripe - San Francisco-based payments company
> WebJet - Online travel agency
> Green Man Gaming - Popular digital game reseller
> Save the Children - Global charity organization
> NCR Silver - Point of sales systems
> One Shot Hotels - Spanish hotel chain
> Coupa Café in Palo Alto
> PureVPN - VPN provider
> That's my face - create action figures
> Foodler - North American restaurant delivery company
> Amagi Metals - Precious metal furnisher
> 
> All accept bitcoin.
> 
> Some of those have to be in Australia, just start eating a lot of Subway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


95% of that isn't in australia, Subway doesn't accept bitcoin here on their site or in store, Several of those are torrent websites

so i'm still sitting here with an ass broken gpu market and nothing actually useful to 99% of mankind to show for it.


----------



## Cyber Locc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*


Got it Australia only, coming right up







.

The Little Mule: A cafe in Melbourne

PolyEster Books: the quirky Brunswick Street, Fitzroy, book store which promises to provide the freakiest underground, books, magazines, films and comix.

V Spot Cafe: A cafe in Canberra

Imbiss 25: A cafe in St Kilda , Melboourne.

Habitat Lounge: A hideaway on Smith Street in the heart of Fitzroy, Melbourne. An industrial space with a secret heated courtyard, eclectic cocktails and comfort food.

Folklore Branding & Design: A design house.

Earth & Sky Organics: Supplies boxes of Organic & Biodynamic Fruit & Veg and a handful of staple grocery items in Melbourne.

Forsyth Real Estate: Sydney real estate, mainly lower north shore. Will accept payment for advertising and deposits.

Tomcat Maker: OffRoad Vehicle Maker

Bitcoin kiosks are also being installed in Perth where people can exchange their bitcoins for cash, using their virtual wallets installed on smartphones. The first will be at Spacecubed, a share workspace on St Georges Terrace, with another planned at Frisk Small Bar in Northbridge, and another at Fremantle's Treasure Gallery.

Bar Biscotti in Perth's CBD is offering bitcoin users a five per cent discount on food and drink purchases.

Cant find a retailer, Change them to Cash.

Or try this site, and see what it says for etailers in your area.

http://spendbitcoins.com/

They are claiming there is over 100,000 bit coin accepting merchants.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyber Locc*
> 
> Got it Australia only, coming right up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The Little Mule: A cafe in Melbourne
> 
> PolyEster Books: the quirky Brunswick Street, Fitzroy, book store which promises to provide the freakiest underground, books, magazines, films and comix.
> 
> V Spot Cafe: A cafe in Canberra
> 
> Imbiss 25: A cafe in St Kilda , Melboourne.
> 
> Habitat Lounge: A hideaway on Smith Street in the heart of Fitzroy, Melbourne. An industrial space with a secret heated courtyard, eclectic cocktails and comfort food.
> 
> Folklore Branding & Design: A design house.
> 
> Earth & Sky Organics: Supplies boxes of Organic & Biodynamic Fruit & Veg and a handful of staple grocery items in Melbourne.
> 
> Forsyth Real Estate: Sydney real estate, mainly lower north shore. Will accept payment for advertising and deposits.
> 
> Tomcat Maker: OffRoad Vehicle Maker
> 
> Bitcoin kiosks are also being installed in Perth where people can exchange their bitcoins for cash, using their virtual wallets installed on smartphones. The first will be at Spacecubed, a share workspace on St Georges Terrace, with another planned at Frisk Small Bar in Northbridge, and another at Fremantle's Treasure Gallery.
> 
> Bar Biscotti in Perth's CBD is offering bitcoin users a five per cent discount on food and drink purchases.
> 
> Cant find a retailer, Change them to Cash.


out of all that, One place is actually close by and i wouldn't go there if you paid me to, And tomcat is terrible. I think i'd honestly rather cheaper gpu's than bitcoin and it's alt coin derivities tbqh


----------



## kmac20

First of all you didn't really address any of my points, you just kinda said that its easier than most people think to match a face to a bitcoin purchase. Which you're not wrong about, but if someone is not doing it "incorrectly" it is incredibly difficult to track. You didn't really delve into my points about how its easier to trace a purchase of a money order or such (because it is because you go somewhere physically, in person). Second of all yes knowing where the money went is different about being able to do anything about it, but if you cant find where the money went, the two are one and the same aren't they? If you cant find where someone hid the million dollars cash they stole, you cant recover it. If you cant find who stole a million dollars of bitcoins you cant really do anything about it. See how they're pretty much one and the same? There are quite a few are studies and papers (including one I referenced) that prove that the majority of people who use cyrptocurrencies are using them either for illegal reasons or for lack of government oversight, and the reason why certain governments have either banned their usage outright (China) or restricted their usage heavily (Russia, US).

If you actually use bitcoins in your daily life, kudos to you. But I dont know anyone who has used them for ANY OTHER PURPOSE than illegal reasons. And I am not being hyperbolic. I DO know people in my life that have used them to buy illegal drugs, to avoid taxes, and to transfer money with less or limited government oversight. I DON'T know anyone who uses them at Walmart, I don't know anyone who uses them at microcenter, I don't know anyone who uses them at shop and stop. I have never even been in a store and heard someone asking how they can purchase their goods with bitcoins or other crypto currencies. I have never had anyone ask me if we take bitcoins where I work. I have never had a person ask me if they know which stores take bitcoins. Your mileage may vary I guess.

I guess all we have to do is wait and see how it all plays out don't we? No one can see into the future, but if I had to wager one way or the other, I think my position has been made as clear as I can make it..

That's the last thing I'm going to write in this thread. There is no point in my arguing for or against this topic any longer. People are gonna believe what they want to believe about it (just like most things in life), and until either someone else or myself observes the actual change occurring one way or the other, neither what anyone else says nor what I say will really impact either sides beliefs about crypto currencies.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> I dont know anyone who has used them for ANY OTHER PURPOSE than illegal reasons. And I am not being hyperbolic. I DO know people in my life that have used them to buy illegal drugs, to avoid taxes, and to transfer money with less or limited government oversight. I DON'T know anyone who uses them at Walmart, I don't know anyone who uses them at microcenter, I don't know anyone who uses them at shop and stop. I have never even been in a store and heard someone asking how they can purchase their goods with bitcoins or other crypto currencies. I have never had anyone ask me if we take bitcoins where I work. I have never had a person ask me if they know which stores take bitcoins. Your mileage may vary I guess.


This is anecdotal evidence.

I don't know anyone else who has built a computer with a custom loop.

I don't know anyone else, personally, who has successfully configured a Hackintosh netbook that is reliable enough to be used seriously (as seriously as a netbook can be used, that is).

I don't know anyone else who has transformed acreage into wildflower meadow instead of wasting time/money/air quality creating their own green desert.

I don't know anyone else who owns a diesel and an EV.

I don't know anyone else who enjoys listening to Ustvolskaya.

The list goes on.


----------



## inedenimadam

If etherium busted...where is the ebay flood of cheap cards? want to pick a few up maybe.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> There are quite a few are studies and papers (including one I referenced) that prove that the majority of people who use cyrptocurrencies are using them either for illegal reasons or for lack of government oversight, and the reason why certain governments have either banned their usage outright (China) or restricted their usage heavily (Russia, US).


Your information on these points is both biased and seriously out of date. Cryptocurrency has been evolving at an extremely rapid pace since I developed an interest in them in late 2010 and 2014 is ancient history. China most certainly doesn't have a ban on cryptocurrency (though it has regulation in place to limit capital flight) and the US hasn't done anything to limit their uses or exchange more than any other security. If anything, such legal precedents have legitimized cryptocurrencies further.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> If you actually use bitcoins in your daily life, kudos to you. But I dont know anyone who has used them for ANY OTHER PURPOSE than illegal reasons. And I am not being hyperbolic. I DO know people in my life that have used them to buy illegal drugs, to avoid taxes, and to transfer money with less or limited government oversight. I DON'T know anyone who uses them at Walmart, I don't know anyone who uses them at microcenter, I don't know anyone who uses them at shop and stop. I have never even been in a store and heard someone asking how they can purchase their goods with bitcoins or other crypto currencies. I have never had anyone ask me if we take bitcoins where I work. I have never had a person ask me if they know which stores take bitcoins. Your mileage may vary I guess.


Your personal experience hasn't been reflective of the broader reality of the larger cryptos for years.

BTC and ETH, which are number one and two in equity/capitalization and make up a significant portion of all money in cryptocurencies are inconvenient for illicit transactions. The blockchain transactions aren't obfuscated; BTC cannot easily be mined by individuals; both have large pools of legitimate investors and businesses behind them; and the majority of transactions pass through major modern exchanges, registered (and audited) in first-world Western nations that need more verification and proof of identity than most banks.

Some cryptos have focused on anonymity (the cryptography part of most cryptocurrencies isn't there for this btw, it's there to make counterfeiting/double spending impractical) and do have blackmarket use that rivals legitamate use. Zcash is a good example of this. However, even these have legitimate uses.

Black markets that take non zero-knowledge cryptos still exist, and probably always will. However, the legal uses have been growing much more rapidly.


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> If etherium busted...where is the ebay flood of cheap cards? want to pick a few up maybe.


That's a good question.

Unfortunately, there might not be. Unlike last time, there are no ASICs to make GPUs totally obsolete, and there are plenty of other GPU cryptos for people to switch to.


----------



## Hequaqua

I'm new to all of this....interesting topic and responses.

I saw that the second hand market was ripe to sell my card, but I decided to try mining. I'm not trying to make a fortune, just tried it to be doing something different. I've been at it for about 4 days now. The first two I let it run all day/night.

I'm not doing it to pay for my cards...so the ROI means nothing to me really. The cards were bought for gaming, and are bought paid for...so I'm not losing anything atm.

I have a RX480 and GTX1060 both in the same rig mining. ATM, I'm getting about 51 Mh/s.

If I can make a little money, great. If I don't make anything...well, just wasted time...but something different to be doing.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inedenimadam*
> 
> If etherium busted...where is the ebay flood of cheap cards? want to pick a few up maybe.


Because its a very short time. its only been 2 months. People still hoping that there might be another increase and want to have cards for then. Also many bough these cards at expensive prices and probably lost money in the process so they feel like they need to hold.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> I'm new to all of this....interesting topic and responses.
> 
> I saw that the second hand market was ripe to sell my card, but I decided to try mining. I'm not trying to make a fortune, just tried it to be doing something different. I've been at it for about 4 days now. The first two I let it run all day/night.
> 
> I'm not doing it to pay for my cards...so the ROI means nothing to me really. The cards were bought for gaming, and are bought paid for...so I'm not losing anything atm.
> 
> I have a RX480 and GTX1060 both in the same rig mining. ATM, I'm getting about 51 Mh/s.
> 
> If I can make a little money, great. If I don't make anything...well, just wasted time...but something different to be doing.


EDIT: Current Stats


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







EDIT: Sorry for the double post....


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> EDIT: Current Stats
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Sorry for the double post....


Not bad at all. Mining is a fun way to learn about blockchain tech. You are part of the blockchain now.

I had all my equipment already. Though at the start in June it was pulling in almost $100 per day, now it is down to about $40. Still more than it costs in power so no worries there.

I have several setups sans GPUs. I am thinking about buying 1070s to use for mining. Those would need an ROI though as they would be dedicated to their purpose. The profitability is not there at the moment. But if ZEC and ETH climb back above $250 and enough people give up then it would be.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Not bad at all. Mining is a fun way to learn about blockchain tech. You are part of the blockchain now.
> 
> I had all my equipment already. Though at the start in June it was pulling in almost $100 per day, now it is down to about $40. Still more than it costs in power so no worries there.
> 
> I have several setups sans GPUs. I am thinking about buying 1070s to use for mining. Those would need an ROI though as they would be dedicated to their purpose. The profitability is not there at the moment. But if ZEC and ETH climb back above $250 and enough people give up then it would be.


I will say at first, the GTX1060 was getting more when OC. I modded the bios on the RX480 card(just the memory), and it is pulling like 27 Mh/s now.

One odd thing is when I do restarts....it seems like the mining program will peg the memory controller to 100, and sometimes like 80%. I know if it's not at 100% my Mh/s will be very low. I do a couple of restarts and it goes back to 100%. Odd. I'm not sure if it's the card, the program(Geth) or something in the system. Normally, once I get it right, I don't shut it down....lol

EDIT: Here is what the cards are running at:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



RX480
1450mhz
2075mhz
1.181v
about 102w
temps are around 65°C

GTX1060
2088mhz
2323mhz
1.050v
about 117w
temps are around 60°C


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Not bad at all. Mining is a fun way to learn about blockchain tech. You are part of the blockchain now.
> 
> I had all my equipment already. Though at the start in June it was pulling in almost $100 per day, now it is down to about $40. Still more than it costs in power so no worries there.
> 
> I have several setups sans GPUs. I am thinking about buying 1070s to use for mining. Those would need an ROI though as they would be dedicated to their purpose. The profitability is not there at the moment. But if ZEC and ETH climb back above $250 and enough people give up then it would be.


$40 is still a lot of money with the current profits. You probably have close to 15-20 GPUs which in the grand scheme of things is very poor.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> $40 is still a lot of money with the current profits. You probably have close to 15-20 GPUs which in the grand scheme of things is very poor.


A lot of that depends on the price though, doesn't it?

Like I said, very new to this. I know when I first started the other day, my monthly was like 96/mo, I think the price was 224.00. The price is like 200.00 now, and I'm seeing 82 and some change.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> $40 is still a lot of money with the current profits. You probably have close to 15-20 GPUs which in the grand scheme of things is very poor.


15. Poor if I were to have bought them for this purpose. These cards are not as efficient at 1070s. I am using six Titan XPs, 2 295x2s, four 980Tis, and a single r9 280x.

The 280X is probably the least efficient followed by the 295x2s. The NVidia cards do pretty ok. Though cards with GDDR5 (non-X) memory seem to fare better.


----------



## brucethemoose

Do people ever flash those GDDR5X cards with a BIOS that just downclocks the memory and tightens the timings?

Seems like you could just use a stock GDDR5 profile.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> Does anyone ever flash GDDR5X cards with a BIOS that just downclocks the memory and tightens the timings


Not possible. They're encrypted.


----------



## PurdueBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Because its a very short time. its only been 2 months. People still hoping that there might be another increase and want to have cards for then. Also many bough these cards at expensive prices and probably lost money in the process so they feel like they need to hold.


And it's not like you're breaking even with power usage, there's still a healthy profit margin there, just not as absurd as it used to be.


----------



## Newtocooling

Those of you that are trading for Ethereum, or Litecoin what site do you use to buy? I made a 300.00 purchase of Litecoin recently and it cost me 11.00 to make the trade. I was just wondering if that was the norm for a trade charge.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newtocooling*
> 
> Those of you that are trading for Ethereum, or Litecoin what site do you use to buy? I made a 300.00 purchase of Litecoin recently and it cost me 11.00 to make the trade. I was just wondering if that was the norm for a trade charge.


I put fiat in on coinbase but immediately transfer it to poloniex to do trades... you're gonna get dinged on entry from fiat to crypto and also going from crypto to fiat.. trading on coinbase and kraken will kill you with fees, I just do it on the exchange and I have yet to pull the fiat out.. I probably won't be pulling out fiat until I reach the daily maximum.


----------



## Newtocooling

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> I put fiat in on coinbase but immediately transfer it to poloniex to do trades... you're gonna get dinged on entry from fiat to crypto and also going from crypto to fiat.. trading on coinbase and kraken will kill you with fees, I just do it on the exchange and I have yet to pull the fiat out.. I probably won't be pulling out fiat until I reach the daily maximum.


Thanks:thumb: I'll look into poloniex when I get home. Between Coinbase, and NiceHash for my mining and trading, I'm getting killed in fees.


----------



## PurdueBoy

Same with stock trading, there's a reason most people say don't invest less than $500-$1000 in the stock market, fees would make it impossible to make any money.


----------



## kmac20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> This is anecdotal evidence.
> 
> I don't know anyone else who has built a computer with a custom loop.
> 
> I don't know anyone else, personally, who has successfully configured a Hackintosh netbook that is reliable enough to be used seriously (as seriously as a netbook can be used, that is).
> 
> I don't know anyone else who has transformed acreage into wildflower meadow instead of wasting time/money/air quality creating their own green desert.
> 
> I don't know anyone else who owns a diesel and an EV.
> 
> I don't know anyone else who enjoys listening to Ustvolskaya.
> 
> The list goes on.


Did I imply it was anything other than my own experiences? Or did I specifically state it was my own experiences in life? Was it not clear that I was not discussing the world over by stating that very fact that it is my own experiences?

Why does the majority of ransom-ware demand payment in bitcoins by the way?


----------



## headd

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/07/27/ethereum_miners_are_renting_boeing_747s_to_ship_graphics_cards


----------



## Kalistoval

*747"s?!?!?!?!?....* And here I am thinking my little tuning was neat..........


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## whitrzac

There are very wealthy people out there... There are plenty of people in the world that can drop $50k on a chance of making more without a second thought.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> I put fiat in on coinbase but immediately transfer it to poloniex to do trades... you're gonna get dinged on entry from fiat to crypto and also going from crypto to fiat.. trading on coinbase and kraken will kill you with fees, I just do it on the exchange and I have yet to pull the fiat out.. I probably won't be pulling out fiat until I reach the daily maximum.


I was just checking the transaction fees of Kraken like 5 minutes ago.

Maker Taker Volume
0.16% 0.26% < 50,000

even if you are the taker, a little over 5 bucks for a $2000 transaction.....

I thought the rates were extremely good....why did you say it will "kill with the fees"?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I was just checking the transaction fees of Kraken like 5 minutes ago.
> 
> Maker Taker Volume
> 0.16% 0.26% < 50,000
> 
> even if you are the taker, a little over 5 bucks for a $2000 transaction.....
> 
> I thought the rates were extremely good....why did you say it will "kill with the fees"?


how much does it cost to receive bitcoin to the wallet How much are they charging you to buy into the coins with fiat? Poloniex is .15% maker .30% taker... If you want to use Kraken go for it.. I find their verification process slow and cumbersome and their site response is ass.. I even turned off my VPN and security and it still was taking 8 seconds for calls to the site to respond.. (yes 8000 ms) When I'm trading 2 or 3 grand worth of assets I don't want lag on their part to screw me out of money... Just me... I thought Kraken's fees to buy in were worse. Maybe I am wrong. I'm not a fan of them generally.


----------



## DesertRat

Oh I remember mining back in the day on m...

*skims through thread*

People are arguing over the legitimacy of two different variants of Monopoly Money? (fiat vs. crypto)

*backs away from the thread*

Even Monopoly Money has value when you're playing _the game_.


----------



## neurotix

RX 580s are still like $330-$350 dollars so this isn't really happening, they're $220 cards.

A lot of people are selling Furys for close to $500.










I bought both of mine for $300 each. I don't have backup cards to use if I sell them anymore though.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> how much does it cost to receive bitcoin to the wallet How much are they charging you to buy into the coins with fiat? Poloniex is .15% maker .30% taker... If you want to use Kraken go for it.. I find their verification process slow and cumbersome and their site response is ass.. I even turned off my VPN and security and it still was taking 8 seconds for calls to the site to respond.. (yes 8000 ms) When I'm trading 2 or 3 grand worth of assets I don't want lag on their part to screw me out of money... Just me... I thought Kraken's fees to buy in were worse. Maybe I am wrong. I'm not a fan of them generally.


I don't have much options as I live in Asia. The only accepted Asian country for coinbase is Singapore. Bitfines (or whatever) has stopped wire transfer completely which makes it the same as Poloniex, aka cryptos only. So where the hell do I get my fiat in??

Imagine this, before I got tier 3 of Kraken (2 weeks ago), I used to buy BTC at localbitcoins.com with the seller's ridiculous rates, and send that BTC to kraken to trade other currencies I want. As awful as the rates where, if only I could think of this idea earlier, I would have enjoyed ETH's wave from 250 to 380 at least. Kraken grinded away those weeks with their tier 1-2 verification.

But now with a tier 3 account, Kraken is my *ONLY* legit option at the moment. I'm not rich but I'm aggressive in my investments, I'm looking to put in (eventually) about 15k USD into the whole cryptocurrency scene. If Kraken is the only legit way of doing it, as long as it's not stealing my money or anything, it will have to do.

So long story short, kraken seems easy enough to use and the rates are an unbelievable improvement from localbitcoins plus the coin transfer. I'm pretty happy.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> I don't have much options as I live in Asia. The only accepted Asian country for coinbase is Singapore. Bitfines (or whatever) has stopped wire transfer completely which makes it the same as Poloniex, aka cryptos only. So where the hell do I get my fiat in??
> 
> Imagine this, before I got tier 3 of Kraken (2 weeks ago), I used to buy BTC at localbitcoins.com with the seller's ridiculous rates, and send that BTC to kraken to trade other currencies I want. As awful as the rates where, if only I could think of this idea earlier, I would have enjoyed ETH's wave from 250 to 380 at least. Kraken grinded away those weeks with their tier 1-2 verification.
> 
> But now with a tier 3 account, Kraken is my *ONLY* legit option at the moment. I'm not rich but I'm aggressive in my investments, I'm looking to put in (eventually) about 15k USD into the whole cryptocurrency scene. If Kraken is the only legit way of doing it, as long as it's not stealing my money or anything, it will have to do.
> 
> So long story short, kraken seems easy enough to use and the rates are an unbelievable improvement from localbitcoins plus the coin transfer. I'm pretty happy.


Exchange is only an exchange and nothing more. You trade and move eveything out of Kraken. If You have any BTC move them out before August 1 to a place that will support both BTC and BCC.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Exchange is only an exchange and nothing more. You trade and move eveything out of Kraken. If You have any BTC move them out before August 1 to a place that will support both BTC and BCC.


why do I move everything out of Kraken?


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> why do I move everything out of Kraken?


Forking issues. If they do not support BCC then you do not get BCC in proportion to BTC.

BCC speculation is interesting. Value is projected higher today but still a fraction of what it was last week. BTC is climbing as all blocks are signalling segwit in period 20. We are 207 blocks in and at 100% signal for segwit.

Another 11 days of this and segwit locks in.

Is there a list of wallets and exchanges supporting both BTC and BCC?


----------



## r9miner

Bitfinex and Kraken will support BCC but they are listing it as BCH.

Coinbase and Bitstamp will not support BCC.


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r9miner*
> 
> Bitfinex and Kraken will support BCC but they are listing it as BCH.
> 
> Coinbase and Bitstamp will not support BCC.


What is the advantage of exchange platforms as big as coinbase to NOT support it?

I mean surely it will drive people away from the platform at least in the transition period.


----------



## Hequaqua

What site would be the best for me to sell and get paid here in the US?









I've looked at Bitfinex/Kraken/Coinbase. It appears all the fees are about the same. I have a Kraken account that is Lvl 2, no issue to do a level three if needed. From what I understand they use wire transfers to the US. My bank charges $15.00 for incoming on any amount, and Kraken charges $5.00 for outgoing.

Is there a cheaper, easier way to do it? I'm in no hurry, don't really have enough to do anything with atm.


----------



## AlphaC

Eh just buy stuff on overstock, Dell, Newegg (or other retailer) IMO if you're trying to cash them out.

Some of those retailers use Bitpay and the others use Coinbase to cash your coins.


----------



## xartic1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Eh just buy stuff on overstock, Dell, Newegg (or other retailer) IMO if you're trying to cash them out.
> 
> Some of those retailers use Bitpay and the others use Coinbase to cash your coins.


Egifter allows you to buy gift cards with bitcoin and most of the time you get 2% back, sometimes up to 15%.

I bought 5 $100 lowes cards for $450, and got $9 back from using bitcoin.


----------



## DVLux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xartic1*
> 
> Egifter allows you to buy gift cards with bitcoin and most of the time you get 2% back, sometimes up to 15%.
> 
> I bought 5 $100 lowes cards for $450, and got $9 back from using bitcoin.


I can only imagine what you needed Lowe's gift cards for.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> What site would be the best for me to sell and get paid here in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've looked at Bitfinex/Kraken/Coinbase. It appears all the fees are about the same. I have a Kraken account that is Lvl 2, no issue to do a level three if needed. From what I understand they use wire transfers to the US. My bank charges $15.00 for incoming on any amount, and Kraken charges $5.00 for outgoing.
> 
> Is there a cheaper, easier way to do it? I'm in no hurry, don't really have enough to do anything with atm.


$15 incoming?? Terrible.

Get a USAA checking account. Sign up online. Incoming is free so then it is just the $5 fee from Kraken.


----------



## xartic1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DVLux*
> 
> I can only imagine what you needed Lowe's gift cards for.


Not quite sure what you are insinuating, but it was purchased so I can buy Gladiator cabinets for my garage.


----------



## rudyae86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> What site would be the best for me to sell and get paid here in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've looked at Bitfinex/Kraken/Coinbase. It appears all the fees are about the same. I have a Kraken account that is Lvl 2, no issue to do a level three if needed. From what I understand they use wire transfers to the US. My bank charges $15.00 for incoming on any amount, and Kraken charges $5.00 for outgoing.
> 
> Is there a cheaper, easier way to do it? I'm in no hurry, don't really have enough to do anything with atm.


Some people just use coinbase and then send ETH, BTC, or LTC to another exchange. It's probably cheaper that way.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Some people just use coinbase and then send ETH, BTC, or LTC to another exchange. It's probably cheaper that way.


Ah....OK....I'll probably just use the ETH to buy BTC, and spend that at Newegg. Thinking about getting the Fluid Gaming kit. Not sure yet...just depends. Like I said, I don't have enough to worry about it at the moment.

I think after today, I should have about 70-75.00 in ETH. Depends on the price.

Thanks for all the input for the others as well.


----------



## rudyae86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Ah....OK....I'll probably just use the ETH to buy BTC, and spend that at Newegg. Thinking about getting the Fluid Gaming kit. Not sure yet...just depends. Like I said, I don't have enough to worry about it at the moment.
> 
> I think after today, I should have about 70-75.00 in ETH. Depends on the price.
> 
> Thanks for all the input for the others as well.


ETH is going up right now. low 300s already from its initial 200 from a week ago.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> ETH is going up right now. low 300s already from its initial 200 from a week ago.


Yea, I've been keeping a eye on it.

My Wallet goes and up down with the current pricing.


----------



## DunePilot

What are some of the ways you guys exchange crypto for fiat? I've heard horror stories of coinbase and such, sometimes transactions being cancelled or taking a month to get deposited. Trading stocks you usually get your money in 3-5 days tops transferring back to your bank. I've also heard of some banks closing peoples bank accounts for transactions into or out of cryptos. So... what do you guys think are the best ways?


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DunePilot*
> 
> What are some of the ways you guys exchange crypto for fiat? I've heard horror stories of coinbase and such, sometimes transactions being cancelled or taking a month to get deposited. Trading stocks you usually get your money in 3-5 days tops transferring back to your bank. I've also heard of some banks closing peoples bank accounts for transactions into or out of cryptos. So... what do you guys think are the best ways?


I use Coinbase as a wallet for both BTC and ETH and as a USD exchange. I use shapeshift.io to move BTC<->ETH. No issues with either. Coinbase is slowish but their fees are reasonable and it's been very reliable for me.


----------



## BenchZowner

Doing fine with BitPanda here.
Exchanging BTC/ETH/ZEC to EURO and getting it in my bank account via S€PA ( usually takes 1 to 2 business days for the money to arrive in my account )


----------



## Megaman_90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> I disagree with this position so much that I cannot even fit enough words into a post to state just how much.


People have been saying that for years now that cryptocurrencies will fail and it hasn't happened yet. I bet many wish they would have gotten in on the bitcoin "scam" back when it was 10$ and under. Cryptocurrenties could still fail mind you but adoption of it seems to be going up not down.


----------



## Axon14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megaman_90*
> 
> People have been saying that for years now that cryptocurrencies will fail and it hasn't happened yet. I bet many wish they would have gotten in on the bitcoin "scam" back when it was 10$ and under. Cryptocurrenties could still fail mind you but adoption of it seems to be going up not down.


Gotta have some way to shop on the black market, you know?


----------



## Solarion

..


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarion*
> 
> I shop using cryptos almost exclusively and have never ever bought contraband with them.
> 
> The skeery bitcoin = crime was just some crap cooked up by gumbymint crooks and their propaganda arm in the mainstream media to scare soccer moms away. Don't buy it. The most oft used currency for criminal activity is the US Dollar...AINEC.
> 
> The beginning of the beginning for cryptos is behind us...you can shop at walmart, amazon, newegg, etc with bitcoin.


Shopping with it makes sense if you are mining it or play the currency trading game, otherwise you lose money at several stops along the way. Unless stores are giving a discount for using BTC or offering at an exchange rate above market I do not see the point. All of the costs with none of the protections you get from Visa/MC/Amex/etc.

The only benefit I see is that you can buy things with currency that was created by you or had capital gains without the money ever hitting your account and thus hiding from the IRS.


----------



## Solarion

..


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarion*
> 
> The benefit is avoiding the stealth inflation tax that steals the value of your currency from right under your nose. This can be seen clearly when one looks at the USD priced in commodity money(gold) over time. One ounce of gold was = to $20 at one time, but now? ...not so much. Why? Well that's obvious...if you conjure more of something out of thin air then the value of each declines accordingly. Obviously most of the units we erroneously call "dollars" are not actually dollars but are bankster credit units. A dollar is 371.25 grains of silver, not a receipt for a claim check on an IOU. The fundamental lack of understanding and flat out disinterest most people(particularly Americans) display when it comes to economics is frankly disturbing...but I digress.
> 
> Currencies backed by nothing save bankster promises ALWAYS return to their intrinsic value over time...that value being = to zero. In the history of the world there have been thousands of fiat currencies and without exception, every single one of them has failed. The ones we're forced at gunpoint to use today will not be an exception.
> 
> BTW taxation is theft. Pure, plain, simple theft.


Haha, Libertarians love them some decentralized currency.

After I made my above post I went to newegg to see how much BTC a pair of MSI Seahawk 1070s would cost. It was 977 shipped in USD. Based on the exchange rate of BTC the price they listed was equivalent to 983 USD so close enough. Not bad, save the hassle of selling BTC and then transferring to my bank then buying.

So again, if your are mining BTC or profiting from trading then it makes sense to purchase goods directly. Converting USD to BTC to make domestic transactions seems more about principle than function.

As we move towards globalized economies I see crypto as a way to move past old models of thought related to how transactions are made. Worldwide shipping seems to be an inhibitor. Customs, custom fees, theft by customs, VAT, all of these things inhibit the world economy model. Large companies can move good relatively easy within the current model but not individuals.


----------



## Megaman_90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axon14*
> 
> Gotta have some way to shop on the black market, you know?


Because USD is never used for that of course.


----------



## Solarion

..


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Haha, Libertarians love them some decentralized currency.


BTC is hardly a libertarian poster child at this point, and the bulk of cryptocurrency stake and hashing power is in the hands of a relatively small number of business interests.

As a whole, it's become mainstream and corpratized in a phenomenally short period of time.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> BTC is hardly a libertarian poster child at this point, and the bulk of cryptocurrency stake and hashing power is in the hands of a relatively small number of business interests.
> 
> As a whole, it's become mainstream and corpratized in a phenomenally short period of time.


You afraid to say it? I will.. The Chinese government owns over half of the available bitcoin in the world. there I said it.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarion*
> 
> BTW taxation is theft. Pure, plain, simple theft.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

not
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarion*
> 
> The fundamental lack of understanding and flat out disinterest most people(particularly Americans) display when it comes to economics is frankly disturbing...but I digress.


The Skinny Puppy song Glass Houses is suddenly occurring to me.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Not a political forum. Nobody cares how much you love or despise your masters.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*
> 
> Not a political forum.


Good luck with that since life is political unless you're a hermit with no contact with humanity.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*
> 
> Nobody cares how much you love or despise your masters.


That's a political statement. Oops.

But, yes, silly claims about taxation really aren't going to get us anywhere, for instance.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Good luck with that since life is political unless you're a hermit with no contact with humanity.
> That's a political statement. Oops.
> 
> But, yes, silly claims about taxation really aren't going to get us anywhere, for instance.


Computer hardware and mining have nothing to do with politics regardless of if you're a hermit or not. You have to be quite dense to not be able to comprehend that. I understand that you've taken the 'love your masters' side, and that's okay. Take it to statist.com and nobody will have an issue.


----------



## ilmazzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarion*
> 
> I shop using cryptos almost exclusively and have never ever bought contraband with them.
> 
> The skeery bitcoin = crime was just some crap cooked up by gumbymint crooks and their propaganda arm in the mainstream media to scare soccer moms away. Don't buy it. *The most oft used currency for criminal activity is the US Dollar*...AINEC.
> 
> The beginning of the beginning for cryptos is behind us...you can shop at walmart, amazon, newegg, etc with bitcoin.


ya sain'?!?!!?



+REP!!!!!


----------



## Solarion

..


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Not my forum, not my rules. I'll just let the mods sort out the political nonsense.


----------



## Darkpriest667

My point... was that for the 2nd largest economy in the world to be holding a serious stake in the largest cryptocurrency tells me it's not a fad or fading into obscurity.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> not
> The Skinny Puppy song Glass Houses is suddenly occurring to me.


Not the place I expected to find a Skinny Puppy fan. Growing up in Seattle in the early 90s Skinny Puppy was a huge part of my teenage years.

The Rabies album is probably in my top five albums by any group. Right up there with Lucifuge, Enter the 36 Chambers, The Mouse and the Mask, Songs about F**king, and Plastic Surgery Disasters.

So where are these cheap used GPUs at? Maybe we will start seeing some of the lesser cards come around after Vega drops next week.

I am quite excited for Vega. I might pick up some 1070s too, but that hashrate on Vega would be quite nice.


----------



## Hequaqua

Just some quick guidance needed here.....lol

I have two cards in the same machine. I have Geth setup on my second rig already, pointed to my already current ethereum wallet.

Do I need to download the wallet onto the second machine as well?

Sorry for such a newb question. I want to split may cards and put one in the other rig.

EDIT: I started Geth with the wallet, mining addy, mode, and all that. When I start it, of course it won't start because the card isn't in there yet. I have it connected to the iGPU atm.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Just some quick guidance needed here.....lol
> 
> I have two cards in the same machine. I have Geth setup on my second rig already, pointed to my already current ethereum wallet.
> 
> Do I need to download the wallet onto the second machine as well?
> 
> Sorry for such a newb question. I want to split may cards and put one in the other rig.
> 
> EDIT: I started Geth with the wallet, mining addy, mode, and all that. When I start it, of course it won't start because the card isn't in there yet. I have it connected to the iGPU atm.


I have my Jaxx wallet on one machine while mining on two separate machines to that same wallet.

You see ppl giving advice on the net (blogs) and asking to donate to their wallet address if their info helped you.

So it just goes by the address of your wallet.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> I have my Jaxx wallet on one machine while mining on two separate machines to that same wallet.
> 
> You see ppl giving advice on the net (blogs) and asking to donate to their wallet address if their info helped you.
> 
> So it just goes by the address of your wallet.


Well in the Claymore miner it has my wallet on my main rig. I'm just not sure if I need the ethereum wallet installed on it, and the block chain.

This is what the config file looks like that I put on the other rig:

EthDcrMiner64.exe -epool us1.ethermine.org:4444 -ewal 0x99FE89fC8AF0420E83f9D4B33B6E14D504581759.Home -epsw x

It's the exact same as this one. I'm not sure if I need to add something after the .Home to create another worker on the pool.

Sorry for all the questions....I'm a newb to setting this up. My buddy who helped is asleep(lives in Denmark)...lol


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

I can mine Eth to your address from my PC, address is in the network itself. I'm a noob too btw.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> I can mine Eth to your address from my PC, address is in the network itself. I'm a noob too btw.


So I shouldn't need the wallet installed on there at all, I'm guessing. I hear ya about the noob part......I'm learning, slowly. My buddy that helped me has been on vacation in Greece all week. I hated to bombard him with all the ??'s. lol

EDIT: When I look at some of the other miners on the pool, most of the workers have the same name with a different character at the end:

.

Those could be so he can tell which is which....I'm not sure.

EDIT II: When I look at mine, it just list one worker, Home.

EDIT III(lmao): I think I will just change the .Home to .Home1, throw the card in there and see if it shows up on the pool page...not even have ethereum wallet running. See what happens. I mean since my main rig has the blockchain and is synced, it should show up in that wallet when it pays out.

*Solution:* Got it....no OC applied on the second worker...just need to get the OC on there, should be good to go.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> So I shouldn't need the wallet installed on there at all, I'm guessing. I hear ya about the noob part......I'm learning, slowly. My buddy that helped me has been on vacation in Greece all week. I hated to bombard him with all the ??'s. lol
> 
> EDIT: When I look at some of the other miners on the pool, most of the workers have the same name with a different character at the end:
> 
> .
> 
> Those could be so he can tell which is which....I'm not sure.
> 
> EDIT II: When I look at mine, it just list one worker, Home.
> 
> EDIT III(lmao): I think I will just change the .Home to .Home1, throw the card in there and see if it shows up on the pool page...not even have ethereum wallet running. See what happens. I mean since my main rig has the blockchain and is synced, it should show up in that wallet when it pays out.
> 
> *Solution:* Got it....no OC applied on the second worker...just need to get the OC on there, should be good to go.


Correct, it is so you can tell which worker is doing what. If I see a name missing from my list of workers then I know that computer is offline. Sometimes it is due to a windows update or a UPS tripping.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Correct, it is so you can tell which worker is doing what. If I see a name missing from my list of workers then I know that computer is offline. Sometimes it is due to a windows update or a UPS tripping.


Thanks!









Been running pretty good for what I have. I'm getting around 50.7+/- Mh/s with the RX480/GTX1060. For whatever reason, I was getting better numbers with them in the same machine.

Any idea what the best driver is for AMD?


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Been running pretty good for what I have. I'm getting around 50.7+/- Mh/s with the RX480/GTX1060. For whatever reason, I was getting better numbers with them in the same machine.
> 
> Any idea what the best driver is for AMD?


I do not. I read up on a few different drivers that were supposed to work great for ETH but they were unstable for me with 5 GPUs. I am going to add an RX Vega 64 to this machine. It will be maxed out at 6 gpus.

I don't know anything about the 1060 cards. I am using Titan XPs, 980Tis, and R9 295x2s.

I am considering the seahawk version of the 1070. I have all of the watercooling stuff to do it. Would be rather simple.

The claymore dual is running on mine through nicehash. No messing with downloading the DAG. Hashrate varies dramatically, at the moment I have 129.46 MH/s daggerhashimoto, 3.67 GH/s decred, and a paltry 0.13 KH/s cryptonight. 2x 295x2, 1x 280x, 3930K. All under custom loop. Had to set afterburner power target at 90% because my UPS cries and turns off when the load goes over 1650W.


----------



## diggiddi

17.7.1 is working fine (with R9's afaik)
edit:Could be down to version of NHM


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *diggiddi*
> 
> 17.7.1 is working fine (with R9's afaik)
> edit:Could be down to version of NHM


Cool....I'm on 17.7.1 now. I installed the newest one when it was released, but it's a hot mess of a driver.....lol

Was hoping we would get a new one today, but all they released was one for the RX Vega cards.


----------



## headd

First vega sucks at mining
Second you should read this
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/6t56a0/important_information_from_todays_ethereum_dev/?st=j6cgi35l&sh=4c9294ee

ETH will be dead for mining in next 1-2months


----------



## HarrisLam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *headd*
> 
> First vega sucks at mining
> Second you should read this
> https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/6t56a0/important_information_from_todays_ethereum_dev/?st=j6cgi35l&sh=4c9294ee
> 
> ETH will be dead for mining in next 1-2months


mining gonna go into "ice age" i agree, just a natural consequence of nerfed rewards

coin price though? not sure about that.....


----------



## Blze001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarrisLam*
> 
> mining gonna go into "ice age" i agree


Hopefully. I'm not saying that to be mean, but I know a few people who want to get into PC gaming but it's currently cost prohibitive with $500 GPU prices.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Cool....I'm on 17.7.1 now. I installed the newest one when it was released, but it's a hot mess of a driver.....lol
> 
> Was hoping we would get a new one today, but all they released was one for the RX Vega cards.


Looks like AMD just released a blockchain driver. I am installing it now. Not sure how it will do but worth a try.


----------



## Hequaqua

Where? Which one? lol

17.7.2?

That driver has issues on my rig...lmao


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Where? Which one? lol
> 
> 17.7.2?
> 
> That driver has issues on my rig...lmao


http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Radeon-Software-Crimson-ReLive-Edition-Beta-for-Blockchain-Compute-Release-Notes.aspx


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Radeon-Software-Crimson-ReLive-Edition-Beta-for-Blockchain-Compute-Release-Notes.aspx


Thanks!









Didn't seem to help me at all.

In fact, I'm getting less at the same settings.







I was getting around 28.6 MH/s with my card at 1415/[email protected] I'm getting 27.5 MH/s now. That is with the new MSI AB 4.4.0 Beta 16 installed.

Not a huge drop, but still a drop. It does look like the wattage is down though. Again, not but much though. I'll let it run for a while and see what happens.

I'll keep a eye on the shares/hr....looks as if it's finding them a little quicker.


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hequaqua*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't seem to help me at all.
> 
> In fact, I'm getting less at the same settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was getting around 28.6 MH/s with my card at 1415/[email protected] I'm getting 27.5 MH/s now. That is with the new MSI AB 4.4.0 Beta 16 installed.
> 
> Not a huge drop, but still a drop. It does look like the wattage is down though. Again, not but much though. I'll let it run for a while and see what happens.
> 
> I'll keep a eye on the shares/hr....looks as if it's finding them a little quicker.


I just installed it. Seems to be about the same but my office is a little cooler.


----------



## Hequaqua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> I just installed it. Seems to be about the same but my office is a little cooler.


Well...I rolled back to 17.7.1. Getting like 28.6-28.7 MH/s. After a while it looked as if my shares weren't what they were either.









Oh well....worth a shot.









Might be better on some other AMD cards though.


----------



## rudyae86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Looks like AMD just released a blockchain driver. I am installing it now. Not sure how it will do but worth a try.


Might be for the RX Vega cards since the rumor of them doing 70 to 100 was proven false yet, maybe this will bring up to the 50s? Maybe? Currently I think RX Vega cards do 33 undervolted...


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Might be for the RX Vega cards since the rumor of them doing 70 to 100 was proven false yet, maybe this will bring up to the 50s? Maybe?


50s still looks like a stretch.

People are getting low 40s now, and with further tuning and HBM2 overclocking I wouldn't be surprised to see mid-40s, but I would be surprised to see anyone crack 50MH/s ethash with practical 24/7 mining settings.


----------



## rudyae86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> 50s still looks like a stretch.
> 
> People are getting low 40s now, and with further tuning and HBM2 overclocking I wouldn't be surprised to see mid-40s, but I would be surprised to see anyone crack 50MH/s ethash with practical 24/7 mining settings.


Been reading that maybe miners will more likely start moving towards Linux and be able to extract a bit more hash rate but software can do so much. I think seeing high 40s might be the max if miners get any chance of doing it.

But with Ethereum moving to POS in a year +, don't know what other coin might get the PUMP when using GPUs to mine...


----------



## AlphaC

People expecting more than 60 MH/s in ethereum are setting themselves up for disappointment

2x RX 570 would be about 50 MH/s ; the VEGA GPU would need be tuned for power consumption as well ( ~200-250W).

* By one of the most important metrics, memory bandwidth... the HBM2 on VEGA is ~484 GB/s while the RX 570s at 8GHz effective memory have 256GB/s

GTX 1070 gets about 30 MH/s at 100W or so. http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce-gtx-1070-ethereum-mining-small-tweaks-great-hashrate-low-power_195451

GTX 1060 supposedly 22MH/s @ 65W http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529

edit: see also https://hothardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx-vega-mining-block-chain-ethereum

August 18 edit: see also https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/7524/4/amd-blockchain-driver-en-vega-mining-optimalisatie-in-de-praktijk-hashes-per-watt


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Been reading that maybe miners will more likely start moving towards Linux and be able to extract a bit more hash rate but software can do so much. I think seeing high 40s might be the max if miners get any chance of doing it.
> 
> But with Ethereum moving to POS in a year +, don't know what other coin might get the PUMP when using GPUs to mine...


Equihash will run on those GPUs that currently run ethereum, just not as profitable. My setup with 2 r9 295x2 +280x will mine about as much as a pair of Titan XPs. So not efficient, but I'm sure there are some tweaks.

It isn't though GPU mining will be dead, just closer to it.

It did die back in 2013.


----------



## rudyae86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dagamus NM*
> 
> Equihash will run on those GPUs that currently run ethereum, just not as profitable. My setup with 2 r9 295x2 +280x will mine about as much as a pair of Titan XPs. So not efficient, but I'm sure there are some tweaks.
> 
> It isn't though GPU mining will be dead, just closer to it.
> 
> It did die back in 2013.


2013? was that when Bitcoin moved to ASIC?


----------



## Dagamus NM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> 2013? was that when Bitcoin moved to ASIC?


Yep. It was profitable prior to that. Once BTC went ASIC there was pretty much only litecoin left. That was only profitable if somebody else paid for your electricity.


----------



## BoredErica

So can somebody explain to me the drawbacks for asics as a whole? I'm talking about negatives on all sides (miners, coders who deal with the currency, and users of the currency). Why try to make an asic-resistant crypto?

Thanks


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> So can somebody explain to me the drawbacks for asics as a whole? I'm talking about negatives on all sides (miners, coders who deal with the currency, and users of the currency). Why try to make an asic-resistant crypto?
> 
> Thanks


Well, it takes alot of R&D just to make an ASIC. I guess it's kind of a sunk cost for generating a currency, whereas GPUs/CPUs at least have uses outside of crypto mining and have all the R&D done anyway.

ASICs also tend to make the mining curve (aka how many coins out of how many are available are generated over time) shorter and more unstable, as they can bring huge, unpredictable performance boosts. That, in turn, destabilizes the price of the coin itself.


----------

