# ZOWIE FK



## SyahmiX

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=product&p=13


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## brackberry

I like the yellow accents on the mouse.


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## end0rphine

I would've assumed Zowie would put dimensions somewhere on that page. Or am I just blind?


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## Bullveyr

I like the idea of making a slightly altered shape.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> I would've assumed Zowie would put dimensions somewhere on that page. Or am I just blind?


Yea, you would think they would show some direct comparison to the "old" AM.


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## hiccup

what about user input regarding hard to press huano switches?


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## trhead

So its a fat AM.


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## zulk




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## aikYu

The Huano's are still there probably.

If not for that, I would probably buy it. it looks really good for those who prefer MX300/Abbyssus shape.


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## Skylit

Filip Kubski has his own mouse now ^^

Rather disappointed that internal hardware has remained the same. Owell


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## mousefan

Yeah really the mouse my lil sister was waiting for. great improvements all over the place. i laugh later guys. ^^

how about a completely new ambidextrous concept than improving a mid-classmouse with almost non existing minor changes for the second time?

don't understand those guys but it must be buizness thing. zowie gotta show balls with high class quality and concepts for the most important hand sizes and grips if they wanna make a cut above the rest for real.

so why not creating one damn good and really well thought ambidextrous that's so good that you can't resist and bring it in two sizes as the ec1 and ec2 evo?

They could have already done that, better than investing their budget in nothing else then a third Zowie AM Version with minor Changes.

sorry, but that is just lame even if it seems to be a solid and good competitive mouse.


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## meih

I hope it has stable hz...


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## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meih*
> 
> I hope it has stable hz...


I guess it will be made with Zowie AM internals and technical concept so you can do your own calculation now. ^^


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## Artifact

Sensor?


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## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artifact*
> 
> Sensor?


ADNS 3090 dpi steps 450 /1150/ 2300. Zowie AM's Sister and here you go.


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## Skylit

I might be suckered into buying a gloss white version if I could strategically transplant alternative hardware









At least they added basic stress relief ^^


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## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I might be suckered into buying a gloss white version if I could strategically transplant alternative hardware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they added basic stress relief ^^


oh the master is getting cheeky.









I mean I would test every mouse in the world you know, but my point is just that I am disappointed this is everything new Zowie has to offer.

I am already overdosed with AM's.

I didn't had the best Options as I was a Lefty anyway, and that's why I invested in hope that was never complied for real.

So more Mice I got, so higher my claims were and all I wanted in general was a high quality, a mouse good to palm for average big hands, a outstanding clickcontrol and a flawless tracking beast.

And all I got was more and more low- to mid-class hardware that was never thought to fill claims of a player like me.

But I got Mice like the G400 playing as a righty now and problem solved.

EDIT: That's what every human being is doing when investing in a product anyway. He invests in nothing more or less than hope and the Companies know that cause they are playing with our hopes. In hope to get something good, in hope to have a good time with it and maybe also in hope to get something special.

And what I did is the same, just more specific when in comes to mice. I did that and quit investing my small monthly budget in others things you know.









Where others Guys getting more and more dumb in their lifetime I gain wisdom with every step or fail I do you know. *lol*

That's maybe one of my biggest strengths.


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## Tazzzz

Same lens and LoD?? Not a wise move from zowie i think. Still waiting for bst mouse


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## Skar

how close is it really to sensei/xai?


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## Vikhr

Can't really get excited if it's going to be as thin as the AM and the hardware is the same.

One of these days we'll get a decent 1.1 replacement.


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## JustinSane

Looks sexy but I'm pretty happy with my DA 2013. Might still want one though. I miss the 1.1 so much.


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## somiao

What alternative hardware do you have in mind?









Also, what do you mean by stress relief?


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## Yahar

Better shape imo but sadly same hardware as AM. Not very interested because of that.


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## avinin1

Basically colored AM prototyle







gg NEO


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## boOzy

What we need is a mouse exactly like Xai but with G400 sensor and cord. Not this.


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## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> What we need is a mouse exactly like Xai but with G400 sensor and cord. Not this.


I'd give you money


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## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> What we need is a mouse exactly like Xai but with G400 sensor and cord. Not this.


G400s "sensor" portion isn't anything special compared to what's already in the FK. I also personally dislike the cord used on the G400. Thinner, but more stiff.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somiao*
> 
> What alternative hardware do you have in mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what do you mean by stress relief?


Depends on what I could modify into the mold.

Stress relief cable. AM lacked, EC had since inception.


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## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viowastaken*
> 
> I'd give you money


So would I


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## ZareliMan

I just don't see how can that be offered as a clawgrip mouse, to me looks like a CMstorm Recon, which I feel more like palming.
AFAIK Zowie already had a good ambidextrous clawgrip shape in the MiCO, just add 2 lateral buttons to that and change the sensor ( I wouldn't mind the original lens on it, you can just tapefix the LoD )


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## popups

The mouse is about 1mm shorter both in height and length; also is about 1-2mm wider from the buttons onward. The buttons have been moved down and aligned differently. They extended the mouse wheel groove to the end and added grooves to the buttons. They obviously added the stress relief that I shown was needed. The scroll wheel is much the same and so is the bottom.


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## boogdud

I just wish they'd change the steppings, 1150 isn't quite high enough and 2300 is too high.









I'd prefer it if they would put in another step at 1600 or 1800. The shape of the EC2 is perfect for me, and this new FK looks like it addresses any complaints I had about the AM, but I don't care for the dpi. Since there's no software you're just kind of stuck.


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## MacroZerg

Why have they not done anything about the switches? :/ Will Zowie ever release a mouse with easy to spam (like omron) switches?


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## nlmiller0015

so this one is not narrow if this is true I might have a replacement for my G9X


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## zulk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Filip Kubski has his own mouse now ^^
> 
> Rather disappointed that internal hardware has remained the same. Owell


aside from the not so optimal max speed rates in the 'speed test' I don't see much wrong with the zowie aside from bizzare rates at 1000hz polling. The dpi does not bother me as I have been using 450 since way back, sometime around 7 years ago or so.

Edit: sorry just realized that you mentioned the internal hardware, I was half asleep when I posted that, whats wrong with zowies internals it would be really good if you elaborated on that, you probably have something posted deep within the forum but Im really bad at digging old stuff up XD.


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## jung1e

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151250293293963&set=a.10151250293163963.456161.130944813962&type=1&theater

dimensions and weight released

127 length 36 height 27 width? 85 without cable vs 129x39x60 and 88 of the AM. Is the width they released correct or did i get height and width mixed up...


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## popups

The max speed is fine. The CPI is more like 500 not 450. The Kingsis lens (or possibly the non infrared LED) increases LOD on red cloth mouse pads, whereas the standard lens on a DeathAdder reduces LOD on red.

The mouse isn't what people want it to be. So for those who would have bought an AM if it wasn't so thin are going to be disappointed. Which is not something surprising. The front is something like 60mm and the rear is like 64mm.

The problem with the mice, the AM and the modified AM (FK), is that it is 58mm at the narrowest. The FK is smaller than the AM! Although only by a millimeter in length and rear width -- with exception to height. It does have nice touches to the design but it isn't the AM people want.

Would I get it over the AM if I didn't have one? Probably, because of the stress relief.

What I like is: the grooves to the finger area, the mouse wheel groove, stress relief, the angle to the bottom edges, the top shell piece for the buttons and the side area in the front.

If I could get one that is like 131mm long. 41mm tall, 61-62mm front, 60mm middle and 64mm rear. Also to remove a lot of the bottom material like the EC to stop the mouse from bottoming out when used on a not so level pad (debris). Oh yeah -- and a standard lens.


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## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151250293293963&set=a.10151250293163963.456161.130944813962&type=1&theater
> 
> dimensions and weight released
> 
> 127 length 36 height 27 width? 85 without cable vs 129x39x60 and 88 of the AM. Is the width they released correct or did i get height and width mixed up...


36 mm height at the highest, 27 mm height at the lowest (front)


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## jung1e

Yeah figured that out after i saw the other pictures, but didnt see them post them at first


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## ich1ban

What's with the sites listed below at http://www.zowiegear.com/component/content/article/252-introducing-the-zowie-fk listing the mouse and having the add-to-cart option and not mentioning pre-order only anywhere on the page

ie.

http://www.imperiomultimedia.pt/zowie-fk.html

Availability: In stock


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## Rotsae

-


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## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The max speed is fine. The CPI is more like 500 not 450. The Kingsis lens increases LOD on red cloth mouse pads, whereas the standard lens on a DeathAdder reduces LOD on red.


Hm.... that explains why my EC evo skips on "hien soft" black if i flick it fast enough and/or have some dirt underneath the lens, while the mouse is pretty much skip-proof when using the "hien VE" red

haven't measured the LoD on red hien but it is very low on the black one, less than 1cd !


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## 666lbs

I notice they have split the LMB and RMB further apart, and I'm wondering if this will give the mouse a softer click more similar to the EC2 eVo, which also uses huano switches but has less firm clicks than the AM. Personally I was a pretty big fan of the original AM except that the narrowness at the front of the mouse caused me to narrow my grip a bit and eventually led to some aching in my palm. I wonder if this mouse will alleviate that symptom. If so, I'll be quite happy.


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## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The max speed is fine. The CPI is more like 500 not 450. The Kingsis lens increases LOD on red cloth mouse pads, whereas the standard lens on a DeathAdder reduces LOD on red.


That completely depends on actual LED and surfacing. DPI isn't a "set" value.


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## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> That completely depends on actual LED and surfacing. DPI isn't a "set" value.


Sure, but I don't think the LED variance and typical cloth pads (with exception of color) are going to change CPI very much over the claimed 450.

25 more counts is noticeable and 50 is very noticeable. From my experience with 4 eVos the CPI could be as high as 22 above the said 450; whereas the AM was more like 58 above.

We can never really know unless Kingsis tells us how they measured CPI.


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## Skylit

That would indicate a slight height change between the two models as you may assume.

The measurements would be a simple calculation based on height distance like I mentioned in our PM. There's nothing really special about this









The problem with finding a "real number" is that there are multiple variables that effect such distance... Also factor in that AM came out first.

Even if off, a max DPI estimate of 2300 has a nicer presentation than some random number. Same could go for the "450" step which wouldn't be evenly calculated off of the higher "2300 DPI" resolution.

The problem with your lift off statement goes hand and hand with the above. Since Deathadder uses a completely different LED, the lens factor isn't exactly proven. Also consider that alternative LEDs of the same color aren't equal.

In the end, it seems as if Zowie is quite happy of their decisions regardless of what is brought up on forums.

I just think or rather know they could do better, but refuse ^^


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## Makav3li

I don't get the hate on the AM. I have tried all of the well know mice and prefer the AM for competitive fps games. I experience no flaws in tacking at 450 cpi step.

- Very low lift off distance
- No acceleration
- No prediction
- No jitter
- Claw grip


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## popups

Well the focal length and diameter of the lens can explain why the LOD effect with red, compared to say blue mouse pads, is reversed.

Why is Kingsis so stubborn to change the hardware? Who knows. Maybe they just want to keep all the money instead of improving the product. Why work hard when you don't have to, I guess.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I don't get the hate on the AM. I have tried all of the well know mice and prefer the AM for competitive fps games. I experience no flaws in tacking at 450 cpi step.
> 
> - Very low lift off distance
> - No acceleration
> - No prediction
> - No jitter
> - Claw grip


The problem is: max tracking speed is too low (for me at least)
And I don't like Huanos, although I could live with that.


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## SyahmiX

i'm thinking of changing my mouse since savu's max tracking speed is too low for me unless i use it on a hardpad. how is zowie am's tracking speed? better than savu?


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## Skylit

Depends on surface.

They'll trade off (tracking loss, doubt enotus will detect), but Savu has more IPS potential, provided you have no issue w/ lift off distance.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SyahmiX*
> 
> i'm thinking of changing my mouse since savu's max tracking speed is too low for me unless i use it on a hardpad. how is zowie am's tracking speed? better than savu?


My Savu has max tracking speeds of >4m/s, both on the Puretrak Talent and the Steelseries NP+. The best results were on the NP+. See here and here

Just make sure to use it at 400 or 800 CPI.

The only source of tracking speed for the AM I have is Ramla777s review on youtube, he states that it has a max Tracking speed of 3.3m/s @ 2300 CPI, but that is probably surface dependent and might be more or less for you.


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## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I don't get the hate on the AM. I have tried all of the well know mice and prefer the AM for competitive fps games. I experience no flaws in tacking at 450 cpi step.
> 
> - Very low lift off distance
> - No acceleration
> - No prediction
> - No jitter
> - Claw grip


Not hating, but it's not for me personally.

- AM is very hard to lift for me due to it's shape
- Switches are imo not good for competitive fps gaming.
- Non native dpi levels, except 2300, which is jittery and too high dpi step anyway to use as a main dpi
- Non default lens
- Can't upgrade firmware
- I'd like DPI changer button on top of the mouse
- Slightly too heavy. Would prefer in the 7x g range
- Max speeds too low
- The LOD is too low

I'm not saying it's a bad mouse. Infact it's good. But it could be better. I've used it a year or so now. It has served me well, but it's time to move on for me.

I can't really say what or why, but the tracking doesn't feel as good as on DA in my opinion.


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## viowastaken

Won't be buying this mouse for the same reason I didn't keep the AM. Presumably huano switches and bizarre DPI steps with no further adjusment options.


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## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> - AM is very hard to lift for me due to it's shape
> Subjective, I don't have a problem gripping the rubber coated mouse.
> - Switches are imo not good for competitive fps gaming.
> Very Subjective. Like keyboard actuation force, there is no right answer (I do prefer Cherry Red). The difference in actuation force compared to OMRONs is negligible, especially when claw gripping.
> - Non native dpi levels, except 2300, which is jittery and too high dpi step anyway to use as a main dpi
> Competitive gamers generally use lower resolutions (800x600 etc.), you shouldn't require high dpi. There is no jitter on lower dpi steps.
> - Non default lens
> Lower LOD is important, especially for low sense (which is what the mouse was designed for right?).
> - Can't upgrade firmware
> Doesn't make or break anything for me.
> - I'd like DPI changer button on top of the mouse
> Who honestly does on the fly dpi changes during competitive gaming? Too complicated and risky.
> - Slightly too heavy. Would prefer in the 7x g range
> Subjective, AM is a lighter mouse though?
> - Max speeds too low
> Max speed is higher than many popular gaming mice, imo1.1 etc. If you're getting it to malfunction look into changing your pad color/type etc. I personally use a func hard pad. I'm a low sense competitive CS gamer and I don't have malfunction speed issues. What is your mm/360?
> - The LOD is too low
> No such thing lol. Look into the right pad color.


Just some of my thoughts. I realize you said it's not for you personally, not an attack.


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## exactrevenge

Zowie needs to add a 800 dpi step; 1150 is too high for me.


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## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Just some of my thoughts. I realize you said it's not for you personally, not an attack.


I'll answer you as well, and not try to attack ^^ (I'm too noob to use the quote multiply posts...)

1. Competitive gamers generally use lower resolutions (800x600 etc.), you shouldn't require high dpi. There is no jitter on lower dpi steps.

That's the fault, no native low dpi settings. 2300 is the ONLY native dpi step. The 450 and 1150 aren't.

Also you are wrong. Only in cs 1.6 is a lower resolution required due to it being vert- and it has wm_mousemove. Otherwise native resolution is better unless you use a CRT, and then the higher the better in most games that aren't vert-. Or if you opt for very high hz, then lower reso is required on CRT.

2 . Lower LOD is important, especially for low sense (which is what the mouse was designed for right?).

It affects the tracking quality imo, which is bad. The LOD is too low imo, moving the mouse fast enough I accidentally lift it and it stops moving, because it's too low.

3. Who honestly does on the fly dpi changes during competitive gaming? Too complicated and risky.

CS isn't the only competitive game








. Anyway, to give you an example. A competitive game I play, Vehicle sensitivity is based on DPI. And I really need that vehicle, and it's unusable at 400 dpi. But I don't care much. It's not that bad being under the mouse. It's still fairly easy to switch. On the other hand I had problems with CM storm Spawn with accidentally clicking the DPI button so that sucked aswell. (CM Storm Spawn has the dpi button on top of mouse).

4. Max speed is higher than many popular gaming mice, imo1.1 etc. If you're getting it to malfunction look into changing your pad color/type etc. I personally use a func hard pad. I'm a low sense competitive CS gamer and I don't have malfunction speed issues. What is your mm/360?

My cm/360 is 36cm/360, I do not know if thats low or med. It's still too low for me, or perhaps it's the too low LOD causing it. Maybe both.

5. No such thing lol. Look into the right pad color.

Well like I said before, I feel that the LOD is too low moving the mouse at 3m/s+ speeds.. I lift the mouse too high.

I have Hayate L and Hien L


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## popups

Buy a red Hien if you don't already have one. The LOD will be higher than the darker colors.


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## backie

I always find it surprising that people find the max speed too low my ec1 evo manages 3.7 m/s on my goliathus speed and playing csgo on a 1.1 sens where I cant even do a 180 turn with the whole length of the mat I have never experienced a malfunction.


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## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Buy a red Hien if you don't already have one. The LOD will be higher than the darker colors.


My hien is red. The LOD isn't any higher really. On Hayate it stops completely moving and on the red hien gives erratic movement if lifted a tiniest bit.

Well. Wait until Bst's mouse or get Savu...


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## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> I always find it surprising that people find the max speed too low my ec1 evo manages 3.7 m/s on my goliathus speed and playing csgo on a 1.1 sens where I cant even do a 180 turn with the whole length of the mat I have never experienced a malfunction.


Agreed. I really want to see someone in person who actually has problems hitting malfunction speed in a competitive fps game.


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## popups

I think it is more the limitations of the lens than of the sensor/coding.


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## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Just some of my thoughts. I realize you said it's not for you personally, not an attack.


If nothing else I have to agree with your point about the Huano switches. Personally, I was far more accurate with the AM than I've been with any other mouse, and after going a few hundred dollars deep into testing our various mice that might potentially suit my needs, I stopped at the AM with no real consideration of looking any further. That being the case, it certainly can't be said universally that Huano switches are "bad for competitive gaming". And quite frankly, if someone isn't playing for their paycheck then I believe there's a good chance that they're overestimating just how competitive they really are, regardless of how competitive they feel.


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## Luxer

You definitely can't click as fast with Huano switches when compared to omron, but which one is better depends on the game and particular situation.

For example, when playing Counter-Strike 1.6 the huano switches feel better when tapping with a rifle. But when I need extremely fast twitch skills, like when using the sniper, the omron switches do feel more responsive since less pressure is needed to click it.


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## Vikhr

I tried playing osu once with an AM, it was almost impossible to play with it and after about 5 minutes my hand was in a lot of pain due to the stiff switches.


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## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> My hien is red. The LOD isn't any higher really. On Hayate it stops completely moving and on the red hien gives erratic movement if lifted a tiniest bit.
> 
> Well. Wait until Bst's mouse or get Savu...


have you tried measuring LOD by putting CDs underneath your mouse ? tracking is just fine on my hien VE red with 1CD, hayate and hien black have lower LOD than 1CD, also i can make the mouse skip on them if i actually flick it fast enough during gameplay while red hien VE is pretty much "skip-proof", there's still some jitter in paint if i draw diagonal lines tho (1150 or 2300dpi )


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> I always find it surprising that people find the max speed too low my ec1 evo manages 3.7 m/s on my goliathus speed and playing csgo on a 1.1 sens where I cant even do a 180 turn with the whole length of the mat I have never experienced a malfunction.


3.7 m/s would be just enough if it was consistent, but what I learned during various test with Enotus is that the max tracking value there isn't really a consistent one.
Anyway, I had Enotus measure the max speed while gaming for a while and the max speeds it recorded for me were 3.5 m/s in TF2, without really trying to max out my speeds.


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## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> I tried playing osu once with an AM, it was almost impossible to play with it and after about 5 minutes my hand was in a lot of pain due to the stiff switches.


The switches are not that bad. They take a little time to get used to if your hand is weak. The reset is much better than Omrons.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 3.7 m/s would be just enough if it was consistent, but what I learned during various test with Enotus is that the max tracking value there isn't really a consistent one.
> Anyway, I had Enotus measure the max speed while gaming for a while and the max speeds it recorded for me were 3.5 m/s in TF2, without really trying to max out my speeds.


If you press the buttons when using Enotus the reported speed will be inaccurate. It will be way higher.


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## ich1ban

The switches aren't that bad, but just isn't for most people I guess.

I changed the switches on 2 AMs and a Kana, with a bit of experience and knowledge(many helpful members on this forum such as thuNDa will be able to assist you) it's actually fairly straight forward and easy.

Cost may be a concern if you are unemployed, although it will no longer be an issue if anything does go wrong such as mice double-clicking/dying after several years.


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## somiao

Actually the switches are a lot lighter in the FG. Users that have both might be able to shed some light.





Watch from 0:45


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## trhead

That's AM-FG not FK, but you're right those clicks sound different.


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## woll3

Zowie support said that they moved the switches more to the back with the FG, but i cant confirm it.


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## somiao

Actually they only claim to made improvements and tuning to the shell itself but the placement of switches are likely the same.

But yeah the video applies to the FG, but IMHO ZOWIE will tune the button feel of the FK to be more in line with the FG too.


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## ich1ban

Also heard that it feels a lot lighter in the AM-FG compared to the AM-GS and normal AM from someone who has both.


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## boogdud

I can't verify about the AM-FG as I only have the AM and the AM-GS, but I do have the EC2-FG and the switches are definitely lighter feeling than the EC2 EVO I have, as well as the original EC2.

I have become a huge fan of zowie since the EC2 release and I am on this FK the second it's available. I'm very curious about the new finish, as it sounds like what I'm looking for. I didn't care for the new evo finish as it feels too 'soft' almost slick, the fg is nice but makes my hands sweat. Actually the best feeling mouse I've ever had, finish-wise is the limited blue EC2. For whatever reason that finish is just perfect compared to the regular ec2, evo and the fg.

Zowie just makes the best shape for me personally. I can live with 1150 as long as I have that shape, and the FG seems to be an improvement. I liked the AM but the shape wasn't for me (going from narrow to wide from top to bottom) was just too difficult to get used to, and the switches were too stiff imo. Sounds like the FK is right up my alley.


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## Makav3li

I also think the FK will definitely help with the people who have trouble lifting the AM. I don't know how clear the /\ vs \/ descriptions are.

What they are saying is that on the AM sides where most people grip one side with their thumb and the other with the ring (sometimes pinky) the widest part of the mouse is the bottom and it tapers inwards vertically up the side of the mouse. This is what they mean by "/\" shape on the Zowie AM. This shape allows your fingers to slip up the mouse if you don't squeeze it with enough pressure when lifting.

On mice like the Xai/Sensei/IMO 1.1 etc. the same sides where you hold with your thumb and ring (sometimes pinky) are thinner at the bottom and taper outwards vertically up the side of the mouse. This is what they mean by "\/" shape which will be on the Zowie FK. This allows you to lift the mouse without your grip sliding up the side of it.

That change along with the speculation change on the mold to make the switches feel lighter mentioned above would imo make it a nice alternative to the Zowie AM, which I already use as my main FPS mouse. Hope that helps for anyone that had to really think about what Zowie was trying to say.


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## Skylit

Seems close to a Kinzu with side buttons after looking at dimensions. Give or take a few mm off at center.


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## popups

The *AM* is 60mm front, 58mm center and 65mm rear. The height is about 39mm and length is 125mm.

The *FK* is pretty much the same with exception to the height and a millimeter for the rear.

This is why I refer to it as the improved AM -- because it is -- at least mold wise. There is still some "flaws" in the design of the mold. If the switches are moved back in the mold that means they are behind the scroll wheel like the EC. That, for me, is a bad thing.



Spoiler: Comparison


----------



## Arc0s

I've had the EC1, EC2, and AM but for some reason I always felt the deathadder had better tracking. This \/ shape is an improvement imo, the /\ shape combined with the rubber coating they used made it really hard for me to lift the mouse.


----------



## popups

I hope they have a white version on release. I want to get one, but I want it in the glossy white, not the rubberized black.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I hope they have a white version on release. I want to get one, but I want it in the glossy white, not the rubberized black.


I can't wait to see the white version!


----------



## SoFGR

AM, AM-GS, AM-FG, FK, FK FG (soon)

EC1/EC2 evo, EC1/EC2 evo FG

If I was a retailer i would have stopped stocking on their products by now.

they should consider making a mouse with an easy to swap shell( glossy - glossy sides - full rubber ) - microswitches( huano - omron ) and feet ( big feet - small feet ) .

LOD should also be hardware adjustable by a mechanical switch, like the dpi/hz switches on abyssus/salmosa, low LOD isn't for everyone.

finally they should make it have a fully functional 500hz setting out of the box, their mouses are marketed to be " plug n play, ideal for LAN " not "leave the mouse @ 1000hz, then downsample to 500 with hidusbf" bull****


----------



## Domino

If this mouse has zero acceleration and zero predicition, I would pick it up. So far, the diamond back and spawn have been my favorite mice just because of how well they track.


----------



## zulk

This mouse has the 3090 so I suspect that it should track with pretty much no flaws except for the low max tracking rates and that is because of the custom lens that they use.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zulk*
> 
> This mouse has the 3090 so I suspect that it should track with pretty much no flaws except for the low max tracking rates and that is because of the custom lens that they use.


I wouldn't really call it low.


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zulk*
> 
> This mouse has the 3090 so I suspect that it should track with pretty much no flaws except for the low max tracking rates and that is because of the custom lens that they use.


If you get the right surface it will reach tracking speeds of 4m/s at 500hz


----------



## zulk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I wouldn't really call it low.


This is ocn, so you know unless its overkill its low







. haha yeah I go about 3.5m/s on a qck heavy when at 500hz


----------



## popups

This was an opportunity for Zowie / Kingsis to have changed the hardware. They could have at least changed the lens, but nooooooo...! They should just find a new OEM because it seeks like Kingsis is not cutting it. That is my opinion.


----------



## Skylit

That's not entirely the issue, but I rather keep that to PM.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The problem is: max tracking speed is too low (for me at least)
> And I don't like Huanos, although I could live with that.


Try plugging it in a USB 3.0 port. For some reason it occasionally skipped for me on 1150 dpi but in a USB 3.0 port it was OK. Can't grip my head around it how that would matter though as todays mice don't utilise USB 3.0 features.


----------



## end0rphine

Dunno if this is already determined but:
*"*
It will feel closer to the eVo in terms of button stiffness.

Best Regards,

ZOWIE GEAR Support,
*"*

From what I remember of my Evo EC1/2, the switches were pretty light-moderate.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Dunno if this is already determined but:
> 
> From what I remember of my Evo EC1/2, the switches were pretty light-moderate.


I would say that my EC1 eVo white is more like moderate-stiff, stiffer than the G400, but not as hard as the Kana.


----------



## popups

The switches are pretty much the same, if not the same, when it comes to the eVo and the AM. With exception to the AM's mouse 2. The only difference is the eVo has the switches behind the scroll wheel, whereas the AM has it in front. There isn't really a measurable difference in actuation force.

To me the Huano switches are better than the Omrons because of the reset. If they were to make the Huano switches act like the Omrons it would ruin the reset. Also there is not much use doing that when they can just buy Omrons. Yes I know that Zowie will likely get the bad end of the stick if they did that. I don't care if they are stiffer or softer as long as the reset is great -- amongst other things.

If they wanted to make it easier to actuate the switch, without changing it, they would place them behind the scroll wheel. Personally I would not like that because it ruins the direct connection with the switch. Ii then becomes reliant on the shell to give most of the feedback and reset. Much like the DeathAdder. The feeling could become mushy, even worse, it can lead to pre travel and over travel. Pre travel can ruin/decrease your reaction time. Over travel can ruin your control over the reset, which leads to inconsistency in multi clicks situations.

To put it in simple words: man up (strengthen your hands) or learn to solder.


----------



## ich1ban

broken net


----------



## ich1ban

Have the OMRON d2F-01FLs installed on AM-GS and stock AM with Huanos, don't think anyone who has felt both on the same mouse prefer the Huanos.


----------



## zeflow

Does anyone know what the weight of this mouse will be? Thanks in advance.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Does anyone know what the weight of this mouse will be? Thanks in advance.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555209_10151250293293963_323535737_n.jpg
According to the website 85g


----------



## Makav3li

I want this mouse.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Have the OMRON d2F-01FLs installed on AM-GS and stock AM with Huanos, don't think anyone who has felt both on the same mouse prefer the Huanos.


I really prefer the tactile feel of the huanos, just couldn't grip the am due to its shape.


----------



## kosten00

FK or AM closer to WMO1.1 shape? On which more common mice I could try huano switches? I have no way to try zowie's before buying.
I love WMO shape, tracking and LOD, and can't find any similar mice. But self-rolling scroll and too low DPI (for high resolutions) makes me sad.
Only hope these mice.


----------



## Narbotic

fyi - gamejava(US) just added the pre-order:
http://www.gamejava.com/zowie-gear-gaming-mouse-retail-p-3242.html


----------



## avinin1

This is the firstest mouse born by the long cooperation between Zowie Gear to CS1.6 Player calls Flip "Neo" Kubski: Zowie FK
Same name-product conpect as with the another mice-series:
EC = Emil Christensen ("HeatoN")
AM = Abdisamad Mohamed ("SpawN")
FK = Flip Kubski ("NEO")



Spoiler: Warning: NEO showing off







Slightly diffrent cased with all the same hardware in


----------



## Makav3li

I was going to preorder it on GameJava, but the cheapest shipping option is $15.50 for US Ground. That's way to expensive for a mouse. Guess I'll have to wait till it's on another website.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I was going to preorder it on GameJava, but the cheapest shipping option is $15.50 for US Ground. That's way to expensive for a mouse. Guess I'll have to wait till it's on another website.


If anything it will be fulfilled by Amazon for GameJava. GameJava is located very close to Zowie Gear. So they are the ones to sale the Zowie mice to the US. The cheapest way to get the FK will likely be fulfillment by Amazon.


----------



## mousefan

I will try this mouse. don't got many options if I wanna play with my strong left side again.

I really hope it's worth it. the changes seem to be small compared to the am, but maybe I get surprised with the final use experience. XD

Unbelievabe. I searched the whole net for one decent optical ambidextrous that is not made for Sissies and what I did I found? Nothing but mice for Sissies.

Zowie FK is my next but not last hope.

we will see. XD


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> Zowie FK is my next but not last hope.
> 
> we will see. XD


don't get your hopes up.


----------



## mousefan

The Problems I got with the FK are its minor Changes. Ofcourse Shape is a important Point, but you almost can't even call it a real Change compared to the AM.

I mean maybe they will place the Switches better in the FK that it's so good to press like a EC1 evo, but we will see.

You know I understood what they meant with the old A Construction of the AM and the new V Construction of the FK but if you look at the FK for real, it seems to be a bit laughable.

And propably I will invest in this Crap again and again, because of the very few real competitive ambidextrous Options on the market. Especially with Hands which aren't small. ^^

Give me one ambidextrous with Logitech G400 Dimensions or a G400 left Hand Edition and I will buy almost a dozen and play the next twenty years with it.

Also this custom Lens of Zowie known from the AM doesn't seem to be the best Solution trackingwise.

I mean if I look at the Speeds I use it's ok, but I think not for everybody.


----------



## mousefan

Maybe I won't even buy it, invest in a Logitech g710+ keyboard and use it sexy with my g400. I mean i got the option and Ability to do that, even i am still better with my strong left side because of how long i am trained with it, but I could do it.

I will decide tomorrow.

I already bought enough AM's and this isn't more than a AM with one minor Shape Change that hasn't much competitive weight.

The G710+ Keyboard would fit so sexy to my G400 that it would be a pleasure to enjoy it.


----------



## Skylit

G400 also has distortion from custom lens ^_^


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> G400 also has distortion from custom lens ^_^


g400 tracks better. and this enormous low lod of the am did never match with the shape and grip you gotta have for it.
i was never really convinced with the zowie am.

and the so called fk is nothing more as a AM with a laughable almost non existing shape difference.

that's almsot no improvement at all even if you wanna talk it good and see it positive.

the fk could have been a bomb of a mouse through the right dircetor. i would have done a better job then these guys.

The Zowie-EN would be a bomb of mouse. bad luck for you and me that i am not in the neo position to do that. XD

What I mean in general is switching from a Intellimouse optical 1.1 to a wheelmouse optical would make a higher difference shapewise than in this Zowie AM and FK Case and even that is still a minor Change. I got all these mice here to compare everything.


----------



## Skylit

Quite confident are we? It isn't just a matter of swapping lens and creating a larger tooling mold. There's a bit involved past the basics.

Decisions made while not the best, are at least understandable. Just not the best target audience imho.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Quite confident are we? It isn't just a matter of swapping lens and creating a larger tooling mold. There's a bit involved past the basics.
> 
> Decisions made while not the best, are at least understandable.


Ofcourse I wouldn't be in the Position to care about the specific technical things but I could give the right Directions to create a mouse that's better than this for sure with my basic knowledge.

Give me one week and you get a great shape construction and another one for the internals i would direct to put in.

no question i could do that successful cause I know what I could do and can.

i mean it's like you said, shape haptic is a subjective thing and even internals are to a specific point, but yes I would be confident enough saying my mouse would be a real hit as a director for shape and internals.

maybe i would have to research a lil bit in terms of internals to do the best possible choice but I could for sure.


----------



## Skylit

Even though I've shared personal concerns, you underestimate the knowledge Zowie already has.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Even though I've shared personal concerns, you underestimate the knowledge Zowie already has.


Man wasn't it you who wasn't pleased with their internals choice? XD

I didn't say I got more knowledge than zowie cause I don't. I just said that I believe I wouldn't be dumb enough with the right technical people in my team to create a superb ambidextrous mouse for competitive gaming that would be at least an ace for my subjective claims.

You now I tested alot and invested probably 2000 euros in mice and would know what I would like to have for real now.


----------



## Skylit

Yes. Suppose I put more pressure on Zowie because claims like this come to mind.
Quote:


> ZOWIE GEAR has no ambition to become the biggest manufacturer of competitive gaming gear. We just want to be the best. If we can develop products that will increase a gamers performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.


Yet I don't see that happening. Hopefully, I don't have to spell out why things are the way they are. I've hinted enough already.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Yes. Suppose I put more pressure on Zowie because claims like this come to mind.
> Yet I don't see that happening. Hopefully, I don't have to spell out why things are the way they are. I've hinted enough already.


Sorry, "who wasn't pleased" and not" that wasn't pleased." You are no machine or something like that but you are our grandfather of mice.

i really respect what you know about the mice sector skylit and would listen to you anytime if it wouldn't be totally unlogical.

we will see, i mean how i know me, I will not make it to not buy this mouse anyway and try at least one unit of it. even if i am not really convinced with this new presentation of the fk I have to admit it will be at least one wortwhile choice for a competitive ambidextrous mouse customer.

but yeah we will see skylit.


----------



## Skylit

Shape is subjective. It will be a worthwhile choice for those seeking the specific criteria that Zowie already offers.

They could technically do better, but other factors also effect choices made.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Shape is subjective. It will be a worthwhile choice for those seeking the specific criteria that Zowie already offers.
> 
> They could technically do better, but other factors also effect choices made.


yep.


----------



## zeflow

does anyone know what mouse get_right is using as of 2013? I thought I saw somewhere he uses the EC1 now, is this true?


----------



## thorsteNN

steelseries RAW glossy


----------



## popups

I would say shape is objective. The decision to choose one shape over another is personal based on grip. But the human hands is just that. The difference among them generally being dimensions. I think a scroll wheel tends to be more subjective than switches, as the switch reset and actuation force can improve or worsen performance regardless of personal preference. Of course if one puts up a mental wall, because of the hardware they are using, then it doesn't really matter if it is objective or subjective.

The shape seems to be much better. I would go as far as saying that it is a dramatic change, not a subtle one. Even with the exact same shape (EC1 and EC2) a few millimeters makes a huge difference.

The internals in terms of switches, sensor and lens are the same. From my understanding, they have "improved" the scroll wheel and relocated the switches. I am still not sure on the relocation of the switches.

I do think they are at least considering a change to the lens, but considering is just that.

The LOD is noticeably different on the AM compared to the EC eVo. The AM has a higher LOD. My assumption (don't feel like checking) is the AM's sensor is lower. So the FK will likely have a similar LOD. Let's just say somewhere around 1.8mm on black cloth. So the same tracking issues with multicolor pads will be there.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> does anyone know what mouse get_right is using as of 2013? I thought I saw somewhere he uses the EC1 now, is this true?


I think I heard him say SteelSeries (because of sponsorship) and Zowie when no one is looking or if he just feels like it.


----------



## Skylit

Even if you had 2 products tailored with similar design, dimensions, and weight, to pick one over the other is subjectivity in itself.

If a personal grip differs from another, there is no objectivity as there is obvious bias due to ones personal features/traits. Of course I'm not here to argue this.









Edit: Viewpoints themselves (including mine) are indeed subjective to an extent.


----------



## Makav3li

I've used many mice in competitive CS and so far the AM is the one I have used for the last 11 months. It might not be best for everyone. But for me with low sense, claw grip, CS it is the best mouse in my opinion.

That is enough for me to want to try the FK and see if I like the new shape more than the AM.


----------



## thorsteNN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think I heard him say SteelSeries (because of sponsorship) and Zowie when no one is looking or if he just feels like it.


nope, zowie ec1 as long nip was sponsored by zowie when heatoN was still marketing figure for zowie
then heatoN stopped working for zowie, team got sponsored by steelseries and now he uses steelseries again


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I've used many mice in competitive CS and so far the AM is the one I have used for the last 11 months. It might not be best for everyone. But for me with low sense, claw grip, CS it is the best mouse in my opinion.
> 
> That is enough for me to want to try the FK and see if I like the new shape more than the AM.


I am in the same boat. I like the Zowie AM. I also use very low sensitivity, a claw grip, and have really no real complaints about the Zowie AM. I dont mind the "/ \" shape, the low LOD has never bothered me, as I always had the habit of keeping the mouse level on its surface even when flicking it ingame. I also dont mind the switches that are used in the mouse. They are a little harder to press, but at the same time satisfying to use. I dont think it had any negative effects on my playstyle and performance.

So all in all, pretty much perfect for my particular anatomy, grip and playstyle.

Yet I still want to check out the Zowie FK. I mean who knows, it could be better. Then again, larger wider mice (Deathadder for example) were never my preference. Maybe I should just learn to be happy with what I have. It will not improve my skill or playstyle. In fact changing mice too often is actually a disadvantage.


----------



## Luxer

I hate the shape of the AM, it's too narrow to get a decent grip on. FK looks like it has a much better grip, I'd still like to see some reviews before I buy it though.


----------



## SoFGR

Wonder if they finally fixed the unstable 500hz setting, performance should be adequate for low sens players when paired with a red pad like artisan hien, i also wonder if the brand new zowie G-TF "rough" makes zowie 3090 mice skip, not that i really care since it has the same crappy base as G-TF "speed"


----------



## ich1ban

just ordered 2 from http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_31173.html

only 1 in stock, 5 sold last night.


----------



## end0rphine

looks like it sold out lol.


----------



## ich1ban

Haha looks like someone instantly bought it after i posted the link.

Sorry









fyi, it came to $120AUD for 2 shipped to Melbourne via Airsure Priority Mail, and it comes to $160 if shipped via the UPS Express (after VAT charges are removed)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> Wonder if they finally fixed the unstable 500hz setting, performance should be adequate for low sens players when paired with a red pad like artisan hien, i also wonder if the brand new zowie G-TF "rough" makes zowie 3090 mice skip, not that i really care since it has the same crappy base as G-TF "speed"


They seem able to hit 500 for me. Evo can reach 500Hz and the AM is over 500Hz. Remember that the rate is dynamic -- based on the amount of input.

The G-TF should work fine. Any consistent surface (single color) that isn't very reflective should work.

Sucks they are not releasing a white version right now. Maybe in the future. I would have to buy the black rubber... not cool.


----------



## ich1ban

I never really looked at the polling rate of the AM/AM-GS or EC2 eVo, they all feel the same.

I use 1000hz, don't feel a difference between 500 or 1000, also some claim that it has higher tracking rate on 500? I personally tested it by swiping it quickly and it doesn't malfunction on the SS NP+ on either settings.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Haha looks like someone instantly bought it after i posted the link.
> 
> Sorry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fyi, it came to $120AUD for 2 shipped to Melbourne via Airsure Priority Mail, and it comes to $160 if shipped via the UPS Express (after VAT charges are removed)


Just checked out the postal charge by randomly putting in a mouse, and its cheaper than mail services interstate in Australia lol.


----------



## ich1ban

Yeh everything's more expensive in Australia... for the amount you spend on a new crap higher end holden(not even HSV), you can buy a porsche 911 brand new in the US


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They seem able to hit 500 for me. Evo can reach 500Hz and the AM is over 500Hz. Remember that the rate is dynamic -- based on the amount of input.
> 
> The G-TF should work fine. Any consistent surface (single color) that isn't very reflective should work.
> 
> Sucks they are not releasing a white version right now. Maybe in the future. I would have to buy the black rubber... not cool.


the 1000hz setting give me 999hz average as long i constalty move the mouse in small circles

If i Hold mouse 5 and plug the mouse into USB i get this



So i have to use the hidusbf trick, leave the hardware setting @ 1000hz and then downsample it to 500 :S

I have reproduced this problem in 4 computers so far whle cm storm spawn and DA 3.5g report a steady 499hz average out the box.

ec evo sensor skips on both hien black and hayate if i move it fast enough in-game, a red colored mousepad like my artisan hien VE increases LoD and max malfunction speed substantially.

Didn't bother testing on G-TF series, all 3 versions have a TERRIBLE base that refuses to sit flat on my desk.


----------



## Skylit

2300 DPI step feels very clean.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of such cursor speed. Prefer native 800~


----------



## ich1ban

I noticed that brand new pads have way higher max malfunction speed.

When I get a new pad, can never make the sensor skip and malfunction, although if it's a pad that's 1-2 years old, I can make it skip.

Has happened to the puretrak talent, goliathus, qck+.

The Steelseries NP+ is still fine though, maybe it's the type of weave that produces higher tracking speed capabilities.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> the 1000hz setting give me 999hz average as long i constalty move the mouse in small circles
> 
> If i Hold mouse 5 and plug the mouse into USB i get this


Far as I an aware this is normal behavior for mice. They do not stay at 500Hz or 1000Hz all the time.

That driver forces a specific polling rate on the USB port itself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 2300 DPI step feels very clean.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of such cursor speed. Prefer native 800~


I rather have 500 myself for games that cannot go below 1.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Damn, sold out.

I am really tempted to get it, but the problem is that I have the Zowie AM and am quite satisfied. Still, I find the rubberized coating a little slippery for my dry hands, and the mouse is not that easy to lift. Maybe, just maybe, the Zowie FK is my ideal mouse. The AM is close. If that is the case I dont want to miss out on it.


----------



## shedokan

after owning the AM EC1 and finally the IME 3.0 I can say that IME is easily the best one IMO (when overclocked), and AM easily the worst hence this FK edition with all due respect to NEO (1 of my fav ever) is a complete joke.. only option that could compete with the intelli for me is the DA but im very happy from it atm so no need to get the DA yet


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> after owning the AM EC1 and finally the IME 3.0 I can say that IME is easily the best one IMO (when overclocked), and AM easily the worst hence this FK edition with all due respect to NEO (1 of my fav ever) is a complete joke.. only option that could compete with the intelli for me is the DA but im very happy from it atm so no need to get the DA yet


I am wondering why you would say this. The sensor itself behaves very well. Whether the shape works for you or not seems to depend on grip , playstyle and your anatomy. The huano switches and heavy scroll are a matter of preference as well. What other problems have you found using this mouse?


----------



## somiao

You got yours already? Review pl0x


----------



## ich1ban

Will have tonight

* edit nvm Auspost is god awful, travelled across the world faster than it can get travel 15kms across the same city.


----------



## Someguy316

How long does it usually take before Newegg or Amazon start distributing Zowie Gear stuff in the US?


----------



## Bentz

No clue, but hopefully not long. This mouse looks amazing


----------



## Narbotic

why not ask them? - [email protected]


----------



## Someguy316

Okay, I just e-mailed them.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Will have tonight
> 
> * edit nvm Auspost is god awful, travelled across the world faster than it can get travel 15kms across the same city.


Yeh its pretty terrible isn't it. I've had an order (computer mouse) stay at customs for 4 days before dispatching to my local post office for distribution.


----------



## ich1ban

got it, right mouse click seems to have a gap between the button and the microswitch so it makes a loose sound when u put your finger on it - I think this is because the right side is a tiny bit more elevated that the left side...

other than that it's perfect.

mouse clicks feel a tiny bit lighter than the white ec2 evo

also the dpi seems higher on the FK compared to the EC2 evo

to 360 across the pad

Zowie FK - 2.4 sensitivity
Zowie EC2 eVo - 2.6 sensitivity
SS Kana - 3.0 sensitivity


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> got it, right mouse click seems to have a gap between the button and the microswitch so it makes a loose sound when u put your finger on it - I think this is because the right side is a tiny bit more elevated that the left side...
> 
> other than that it's perfect.
> 
> mouse clicks feel a tiny bit lighter than the white ec2 evo
> 
> also the dpi seems higher on the FK compared to the EC2 evo
> 
> to 360 across the pad
> 
> Zowie FK - 2.4 sensitivity
> Zowie EC2 eVo - 2.6 sensitivity
> SS Kana - 3.0 sensitivity


Any comparison photos?


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narbotic*
> 
> why not ask them? - [email protected]


Got a response back and it says around April.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Any comparison photos?


Yeah be good to see some more pics if you can


----------



## Mitaru

I have never posted anything before on this forum. I usually just read up on upcoming mice.^^

Anyway I got the Zowie FK for three days now and wanted to let you guys know what i think about it.
I got the FK coming from a Zowie AM. I also have an G5, G400, G9x and sensei raw.

The mouse feels like a combination of the AM and the Sensei. The sides feel just like a Sensei.
It really does help with picking up the mouse and I prefer it to the AM.
Just to be clear, I have no issues at all with the shape of the AM, its a lovely mouse.

The coating material used is different compared to the AM or Sensei. Its slightly more like plastic, less like rubber.
It's not as soft, slippery when dry. It has more grip for me. The colour is less matte though, so it shows fingerprints and such faster.

The buttons are a bit softer than on the AM. I'm the kind of person that liked the AM buttons.
Maybe not as much as the G9x left click but better than the rest of the mice that I have.
The side buttons are easier to press and are smaller as well. They are also positioned slightly lower.

The scroll wheel is slightly looser in a good way. The AM took a while to break in, this one is good right away.
As for the wobble. I could nudge my wheel to left on the AM. On the FK I cant do that.
The rubber used for the wheel is a bit stiffer as well. It's is also really easy to press.

The sensor feels the same as on the AM. There is no way for me to tell if it was improved or not.

All in all I think that the Zowie FK is quite an improvement over the AM.
These changes might look subtle but subtle things can make a mouse feel completely different.


----------



## boogdud

Thanks for the info!

Is the scroll wheel noisy like the EC series or is it more quiet?


----------



## Mitaru

The Scroll Wheel is pretty noisy


----------



## Bentz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> got it, right mouse click seems to have a gap between the button and the microswitch so it makes a loose sound when u put your finger on it - I think this is because the right side is a tiny bit more elevated that the left side...
> 
> other than that it's perfect.
> 
> mouse clicks feel a tiny bit lighter than the white ec2 evo
> 
> also the dpi seems higher on the FK compared to the EC2 evo
> 
> to 360 across the pad
> 
> Zowie FK - 2.4 sensitivity
> Zowie EC2 eVo - 2.6 sensitivity
> SS Kana - 3.0 sensitivity


How does the FK's shape feel in comparison to the kana? Are they about the same?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## toatoa

Is it slightly smaller than the AM like these pics say? The side by side pics make them look identical in size.

http://i.imgur.com/lcfl3Xq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YYCuh2z.jpg


----------



## mafu2g

Very similar to kana, more V shaped I think, just slightly. It's same size as am but feels bigger because of the shape and easier to grip with comfort.

I think if this was released before the AM, the AM would not have been released. The majority would view it being inferior in every aspect of the mouse


----------



## zeflow

Thanks for the update Mitaru.

What do you mean by the buttons are positioned slightly lower? Is this due to the groves shaped into mouse 1 & 2?

Thanks!


----------



## Mitaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Thanks for the update Mitaru.
> 
> What do you mean by the buttons are positioned slightly lower? Is this due to the groves shaped into mouse 1 & 2?
> 
> Thanks!


I meant the buttons on the side. They sit slightly closer to the thumb and are smaller overall compared to the ones on the AM.
Looking at the AM now and comparing the height on mouse 1 and 2. Not sure, seems about the same. It feels different thought due to the grooves. Kind of like the xbox vs ps3 sticks, concave vs convex.


----------



## Mitaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Is it slightly smaller than the AM like these pics say? The side by side pics make them look identical in size.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/lcfl3Xq.jpg
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/YYCuh2z.jpg


I can definitely notice the lack of "ass". It sits less high, makes the mouse feel more slender. The front feels slightly bigger though, the curve in the middle is also more dramatic on the FK. So I'ts quite narrow in the middle.


----------



## Narbotic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mafu2g*
> 
> Very similar to kana, more V shaped I think, just slightly.


Ah - a kana @ 2300dpi w/ 2 buttons per side == my dream mouse. Will know for sure tomorrow.


----------



## popups

The mouse is wider in the front over the AM and the same in the rear. The middle is still slender. The thing is that it tapers outward like the Diamondback. So think of it as a wider in the front AM that isn't as high.

I want to know what you guys think of the scroll wheel compared to the AM. Is it better in your opinion and how?


----------



## Narbotic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I want to know what you guys think of the scroll wheel compared to the AM. Is it better in your opinion and how?


I only used an AM for a day or so - but the wheel on the FK feels about the same - perhaps *slightly* easier to roll. Scrolling produces a bit more noise than the EC2, but exhibits none of the EC2's side-to-side wiggling / looseness.

Clicks feel firm like the AM to me - might have to do the ol' omron swap with this one.

Yellow accents are cute but look a bit crap w/ my green ikea desk


----------



## popups

If you open it up can you take some pictures of the scroll wheel and the middle shell section that keep the scroll wheel in place?


----------



## zeflow

Received the mouse today. Had to catch a flight so I only had time to open it and feel it for a few minutes. The scroll wheel IMO is much easier to scroll and not as tactile. Huge improvement over the am! Ill post some pics later tonight.

Another note, left and right mouse clicks feel closer to the EC series. Less pressure needed than the AM. And like mentioned above the surface is still rubber feeling but if your hands are dry you can still grip the mouse, it's very nice.


----------



## kazuyamishima

They said beginning of februari, but I have been unable to get my hands on one so far.


----------



## zeflow

Here's an scroll wheel comparison for am/fk
They look identical to me, but the fk does scroll easier and doesn't move at all left or right.


----------



## crbn

Thanks for the reviews, looks like I'll be ordering one soon :]


----------



## STRON

I can't choose between the AM and FK.

I've contacted WEBDanes.dk about the FK - waiting for them to get back to me, since they don't have it on their site/in stock.

(I live in Denmark).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Here's an scroll wheel comparison for am/fk
> They look identical to me, but the fk does scroll easier and doesn't move at all left or right.


Ah oh! That can't be good.



Does the shell have 4 screws to hold it together? As in it does not hook onto the front like the AM but has screws under each mouse foot?

Can you take pictures of the middle section of the mouse? The middle mold that is screwed onto the bottom mold. A picture of the inner portion where there are nubs to hold down the scroll wheel.

I don't have my camera with me to show you, sorry.

The board is the same as the AM. Everything is pretty much. Only thing I can say that may have changed is the magnet in the main switches, the side buttons as well and the springs in the scroll wheel.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> I can't choose between the AM and FK.
> 
> I've contacted WEBDanes.dk about the FK - waiting for them to get back to me, since they don't have it on their site/in stock.
> 
> (I live in Denmark).


Depends on your grip. Nearly everything is the same.

The middle and rear are the same. The middle width is generally an area of complaint, as it is 58mm. Sometimes the height is an issue for people. The AM is 38mm high and the FK is said to be 36mm.

I personally do not like mice that are 38mm or under in height. They tend not to give you enough space for your fingers with the typical two fingers on the right side grip. I don't like my hand rubbing the mouse pad. I rather have 40mm or higher in height. I also like longer mice so I can use more of my palm on the mouse than on the mouse pad. So a mouse that is 127mm or longer.


----------



## zeflow

Yeah that spot you circled looks like it wasn't finished or something, almost looked chipped.

Yes, the mouse has four screws to hold it together unlike the AM. I will take a pic of the inside of the mold when I can.

I agree on the changes, they also changed the mouse cord a bit where it goes into the mouse they made it more durable. The inside mold is different as well, ill post pics.


----------



## Narbotic

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an scroll wheel comparison for am/fk
> They look identical to me, but the fk does scroll easier and doesn't move at all left or right.






Agh - that ceramic resonator is in dire need of more ceramic! Did it come that way?

(referring to the component Popups pointed out)


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narbotic*
> 
> 
> Agh - that ceramic resonator is in dire need of more ceramic! Did it come that way?
> 
> (referring to the component Popups pointed out)


Yes it did, is that going to cause problems?


----------



## popups

I would say it is pretty important for the sensor. It is there for a reason or was there.


----------



## zeflow

Am on left fk on right.



Inside shell of Fk close up .


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I would say it is pretty important for the sensor. It is there for a reason or was there.


No when I opened the mouse it was there.


----------



## zeflow

Here's some more pics


----------



## Narbotic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Yes it did, is that going to cause problems?


The resonator provides a clock signal to the processor (looks like the optical sensor in this case)
So sort of like a metronome for the optical sensor's sampling "rhythm".

I'm guessing a busted resonator would result in an erratic CPI/DPI from the sensor.

Have you noticed any jittery and/or irregular tracking?

Prolly wise to RMA it in any case :[


----------



## Skylit

Ouch. Request RMA.


----------



## popups

Wouldn't have know unless you opened it. Hehe...

I would get one but there is no white version. I don't think it will be out until next year... I'm bugging them about it though. I need some back up.

Anyone know if the Hayate is consistent in all directions? Unlike the Hien. To bad it doesn't come in white or red.

I think a FK, Hayate and Avago lens will be the setup I use until BST let's me get one of his... in 2015. Ouch!


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Wouldn't have know unless you opened it. Hehe...
> 
> I would get one but there is no white version. I don't think it will be out until next year... I'm bugging them about it though. I need some back up.
> 
> Anyone know if the Hayate is consistent in all directions? Unlike the Hien. To bad it doesn't come in white or red.
> 
> I think a FK, Hayate and Avago lens will be the setup I use until BST let's me get one of his... in 2015. Ouch!


I will back you up







going to be asking them the same thing.

That way I also get to enjoy my AM a little bit more before I switch to the FK and it wont feel like such a waste. Popups, have you used the white version of the AM/EC before? How is the coating? I am not a fan of the rubberized coating on the Zowie mice (have not tried the FK), do you have any experience with the glossy white coating that they use? It looks like I would prefer it over the rubberized coating of the AM.

This is the 1st review I have seen of the mouse. It is not really all that usefull
http://www.esplanet.net/article/851-review-zowie-fk/


----------



## ich1ban

The rubber on it doesn't feel like the AM's, feels more like the kana, maybe even less rubberized coating


----------



## boogdud

I was under the impression that it didn't have a rubber finish, I thought it was just a new texture for the plastic? I may have misinterpreted their product documentation though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> I will back you up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> going to be asking them the same thing.
> 
> That way I also get to enjoy my AM a little bit more before I switch to the FK and it wont feel like such a waste. Popups, have you used the white version of the AM/EC before? How is the coating? I am not a fan of the rubberized coating on the Zowie mice (have not tried the FK), do you have any experience with the glossy white coating that they use? It looks like I would prefer it over the rubberized coating of the AM.
> 
> This is the 1st review I have seen of the mouse. It is not really all that usefull
> http://www.esplanet.net/article/851-review-zowie-fk/


I had an EC1 white and I use an EC2 and AM in white.

The coating is basically white paint with flake (some call it glitter). It is glossy. It's best for dryer hands. Once you get a little moister on your hands it will really grip. You can just blow hot air from your mouth onto your hands like you do when it's cold. When your hands are completely dry there isn't any grip. If you don't have clean hands there can be some build up that you can just wipe off.

I prefer glossy mice. I cannot hold on to a DeathAdder BE. So I removed the coating. I would only buy mice that are glossy if I can.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hiccup*
> 
> what about user input regarding hard to press huano switches?


It wasn't the huano switches that made AM hard to press, but the mold.

So are FK buttons hard to press anymore? What about the scroll wheel is it hard to press/scroll like AM too?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The coating is basically white paint with flake (some call it glitter). It is glossy. It's best for dryer hands. Once you get a little moister on your hands it will really grip. You can just blow hot air from your mouth onto your hands like you do when it's cold. When your hands are completely dry there isn't any grip. If you don't have clean hands there can be some build up that you can just wipe off.
> 
> I prefer glossy mice. I cannot hold on to a DeathAdder BE. So I removed the coating. I would only buy mice that are glossy if I can.


That's funny.
I experienced the exact opposite with my AM-FG.

When my hands were dry I could grab the mouse and it sticks to it.
But when gaming for some time it became more and more a problem to properly grab it without applying pressure.


----------



## zeflow

I will try the hayate fk combo when I get home, I'm currently on a business trip. I will also test for any inconsistencies with the mouse, but will RMA it regardless. I bought two so I can let one go for a bit.

The buttons are not hard to press at all, just like the EC mice. The scroll wheel is also lighter. Although, the scroll button seems the same in terms of pressure needed.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Depends on your grip. Nearly everything is the same.
> 
> The middle and rear are the same. The middle width is generally an area of complaint, as it is 58mm. Sometimes the height is an issue for people. The AM is 38mm high and the FK is said to be 36mm.
> 
> I personally do not like mice that are 38mm or under in height. They tend not to give you enough space for your fingers with the typical two fingers on the right side grip. I don't like my hand rubbing the mouse pad. I rather have 40mm or higher in height. I also like longer mice so I can use more of my palm on the mouse than on the mouse pad. So a mouse that is 127mm or longer.


Thanks, man.

Yeah, I ordered the AM; might get the FK later this year.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I had an EC1 white and I use an EC2 and AM in white.
> 
> The coating is basically white paint with flake (some call it glitter). It is glossy. It's best for dryer hands. Once you get a little moister on your hands it will really grip. You can just blow hot air from your mouth onto your hands like you do when it's cold. When your hands are completely dry there isn't any grip. If you don't have clean hands there can be some build up that you can just wipe off.
> 
> I prefer glossy mice. I cannot hold on to a DeathAdder BE. So I removed the coating. I would only buy mice that are glossy if I can.


Thanks for the description of the coating. Very useful. Unlike most people I tend to dislike rubberized coatings. I dont exactly hate them, but I have not used a mouse yet where I felt the rubberized coating provided more grip than a simple plastic coating. I have dry hands, and find it to be more slippery most of the time.


----------



## Kyal

Another AM or FK person here.
Currently using the G500 and MX518, enjoy the sizes of those mice. Which would everyone here recommend, the FK or AM?


----------



## Makav3li

EC1 eVo


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> The buttons are not hard to press at all, just like the EC mice. The scroll wheel is also lighter. Although, the scroll button seems the same in terms of pressure needed.


Sounds good. Really responsive dosed clicks are a important factor to me. the am wasnt bad, but it gets better as you can feel with the ec series for sure. i will test the fk so soon as possible anyway.


----------



## popups

The AM has two different switches for the main buttons. The mouse 2 is lighter than mouse 1. So they could have just used that version of the Huanos on the FK's main buttons. They do not have a magnet nearly as strong, making them kind of feel like the EC's mold. Although from what I can tell the EC has the stronger version Huano switches.

The mold changes the perception of the switches. Since the mold of the FK has the switches in front of the scroll wheel, they will always feel stiffer when using the same switch, compared to the EC's mold or DeathAdder.

I personally like the stiffer switches for my play style, because the magnet is stronger it creates a very distinct and fast reset. So I am pretty disappointed to hear the went with the slow reset versions. I rather have Omrons than those versions.


----------



## lokisnake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Another AM or FK person here.
> Currently using the G500 and MX518, enjoy the sizes of those mice. Which would everyone here recommend, the FK or AM?


The G500 is an extremely heavy mouse when compared to the AM/FK, even with an empty weight cartridge. The FK will probably be a more comfortable shape, IMO, but also keep in mind that the FK is an ambidextrous mouse, whereas the Logitechs are ergonomically right handed. They are pretty different beasts, and you might want to try out an AM (or FK if you can) before you commit to buy if $$ is a factor.

Personally I'm a huge fan of super light mice, and wish there was a Mico with more than 3 buttons for voice comms/PTT. I'm hoping the FK will at least get close to that.


----------



## Kyal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lokisnake*
> 
> The G500 is an extremely heavy mouse when compared to the AM/FK, even with an empty weight cartridge. The FK will probably be a more comfortable shape, IMO, but also keep in mind that the FK is an ambidextrous mouse, whereas the Logitechs are ergonomically right handed. They are pretty different beasts, and you might want to try out an AM (or FK if you can) before you commit to buy if $$ is a factor.
> 
> Personally I'm a huge fan of super light mice, and wish there was a Mico with more than 3 buttons for voice comms/PTT. I'm hoping the FK will at least get close to that.


Thanks a ton man!
I don't mind going for a lighter mouse, or if it's ambidextrous. Don't really mind having to adjust, just sick of the G500s acceleration, I kinda wish a good mouse with 3 side buttons like the G500 w/o acceleration and the other crap existed.







Would defs love to try one before I buy, but living in Australia in a smallish town kinda of stops me being able too(doubt anyone here has even heard of Zowie LOL).


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Another AM or FK person here.
> Currently using the G500 and MX518, enjoy the sizes of those mice. Which would everyone here recommend, the FK or AM?


Really hard to tell. The AM and FK are both quite different from those two Logitech mice. Those are both very ergonomic in shape, while the AM and FK are ambidextrous symmetrical mice.

I also have to agree with the previous comment that the g500 will also feel completely different because of the weight. The g500 is one of the heaviest mice i have ever used and they have completely disregarded weight in the design. The am/fk were made specifically to light. Other differences that most would call improvements is that the sensor is centered on the am/fk and the weight is evenly distributed. The scroll wheel on the g500 is also flimsy and hard to use.

If you like the shape however, the better option for a nice mouse with a good sensor would be the g400 (or keep the mx 518), or you could just try the am/fk to see whether the shape agrees with your hand. G400 seems like the safer bet tbough


----------



## STRON

Oh, dear...

So I got the Zowie AM today, but the scroll wheel is "weird". I uploaded a video on YouTube - could you guys maybe tell me if it's RMA-time or if it's just "normal"?









Also, if I "shake" the mouse, the scroll wheel "rattles".

*




I'm sorry if I posted this the wrong place. It's just I've seen the pictures of the scroll wheel on both AM and FK. Maybe you guys could help me out.

Thanks.

--

Timothy


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> So I got the Zowie AM today, but the scroll wheel is "weird". I uploaded a video on YouTube - could you guys maybe tell me if it's RMA-time or if it's just "normal"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if I "shake" the mouse, the scroll wheel "rattles".


Both cases apply to my AM as well, and I always hated it.








The stiff buttons, the horrible wheel and sides not perfect for lifting the mouse are the negatives for me with the AM. The positives are a good general shape, awesome cord and good performance. FK seems to have improved on these elements, but I will probably still wait for BST...

AM is still a solid mouse in my opinion. I kind of tolerate the flaws.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Both cases apply to my AM as well, and I always hated it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The stiff buttons, the horrible wheel and sides not perfect for lifting the mouse are the negatives for me with the AM. The positives are a good general shape, awesome cord and good performance. FK seems to have improved on these elements, but I will probably still wait for BST...
> 
> AM is still a solid mouse in my opinion. I kind of tolerate the flaws.


Thank you for your answer. I'm going to RMA it anyways.

But you're telling me that the sound is normal? I'm not sure, but my scroll wheel feels weird.

I love the stiff buttons, the mouse feels too small for me, but let's see. If I get a refund, I might order another AM - might order the FK.









By the way, what's a "BST"?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Oh, dear...
> 
> So I got the Zowie AM today, but the scroll wheel is "weird". I uploaded a video on YouTube - could you guys maybe tell me if it's RMA-time or if it's just "normal"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if I "shake" the mouse, the scroll wheel "rattles".
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I posted this the wrong place. It's just I've seen the pictures of the scroll wheel on both AM and FK. Maybe you guys could help me out.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> 
> Timothy


Just a normal AM scroll wheel.
I had 2 AM, 1 AM-GS and 1 AM-FG.
Scroll wheel is the same on every single one.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Oh, dear...
> 
> So I got the Zowie AM today, but the scroll wheel is "weird". I uploaded a video on YouTube - could you guys maybe tell me if it's RMA-time or if it's just "normal"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if I "shake" the mouse, the scroll wheel "rattles".
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I posted this the wrong place. It's just I've seen the pictures of the scroll wheel on both AM and FK. Maybe you guys could help me out.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> 
> Timothy


Seems normal to me too. Scroll works fine like that in game too, just a noise.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Seems normal to me too. Scroll works fine like that in game too, just a noise.


Alright, thanks...

But I'm going to RMA it. Making me insane.

**EDIT**

What's up with this? My AM have these "holes" too. Zowie AM "holes"


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Alright, thanks...
> 
> But I'm going to RMA it. Making me insane.
> 
> **EDIT**
> 
> What's up with this? My AM have these "holes" too. Zowie AM "holes"


Speed Holes.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Speed Holes.


...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Both cases apply to my AM as well, and I always hated it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The stiff buttons, the horrible wheel and sides not perfect for lifting the mouse are the negatives for me with the AM. The positives are a good general shape, awesome cord and good performance. FK seems to have improved on these elements, but I will probably still wait for BST...
> 
> AM is still a solid mouse in my opinion. I kind of tolerate the flaws.


The stiffer switches are for the Pros. Casual player cannot handle them -- their hands are too girly.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Thank you for your answer. I'm going to RMA it anyways.
> 
> But you're telling me that the sound is normal? I'm not sure, but my scroll wheel feels weird.
> 
> I love the stiff buttons, the mouse feels too small for me, but let's see. If I get a refund, I might order another AM - might order the FK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, what's a "BST"?


You could try to get another AM, but I wouldn't bet on it to be different than what you have experienced, because it is by design. I would choose to wait for the FK, as it seems an improvement overall.

BST is the guy who is producing a mouse (link) on his own. It's in development currently. No idea if it will be good, but I put all my bets on it at the moment. Should it fail, than I'll come back to FK or whatever will be available by then.


----------



## popups

BST's mouse is to small for me. The length is way below what I have ever used. The side's taper seems like an issue for my grip style too. Also the scroll wheel is so far back and not that exposed. All that leads me to think I will hate it.

I will likely favor the Zowie FK or DeathAdder BE over every other mouse after some user mods.


----------



## Mitaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I will likely favor the Zowie FK or DeathAdder BE over every other mouse after some user mods.


What kind of mod did you have in mind for the FK? Just out of curiosity.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mitaru*
> 
> What kind of mod did you have in mind for the FK? Just out of curiosity.


Adding a highly modified Avago lens, changing the switches and taller mouse feet.


----------



## Mitaru

Don't you think that maybe the feet are so thin on purpose?
It can go slightly higher but i wonder if it's bad to get too close to the point where it doesn't track anymore.
Otherwise I don't see why the skates are so thin. I's not because Zowie is cheap. You get an extra pair.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mitaru*
> 
> Don't you think that maybe the feet are so thin on purpose?
> It can go slightly higher but i wonder if it's bad to get too close to the point where it doesn't track anymore.
> Otherwise I don't see why the skates are so thin. I's not because Zowie is cheap. You get an extra pair.


Yes they are. It's apart of their design. I think they are 0.18mm. They sell replacement 0.6mm feet.

The AM's sensor is lower than the EC. So, since the PCB is the same in the FK, I figure it will also have the higher LOD that the AM has over the EC.

Just removing the light filter from the Kingsis lens will increase the LOD about 0.6mm to 2.7mm using a blue Hien. Therefore using an Avago lens should give me similar or more LOD. Which I then can use the 0.6mm feet with either lens. Giving me something like 2.1mm LOD. With the Avago lens I will not have to redirect the light like I am with the Kingsis lens that doesn't have the filter on. Also I may get higher malfunction speed with the Avago lens.

On top of that with the thicker feet the mouse is less prone to scraping the pad and likely will not be as susceptible to static electricity.


----------



## Narbotic

0.18mm?! Yah - that's thin! In fact, the overall ground clearance on this thing is downright eentsy.
After replacing the switches & reassembling my FK, the lens now intermittently rubs against the surface. Guessing I slightly overtightened one of the PCB screws - will have to install thicker feet to offset.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narbotic*
> 
> 0.18mm?! Yah - that's thin! In fact, the overall ground clearance on this thing is downright eentsy.
> After replacing the switches & reassembling my FK, the lens now intermittently rubs against the surface. Guessing I slightly overtightened one of the PCB screws - will have to install thicker feet to offset.


How do the new switches feel in the FK shell? The FK switches are horribly worse than the AM-FG (which I actually liked). Feels as though there's no spring to return to the initial mouse button position.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narbotic*
> 
> 0.18mm?! Yah - that's thin! In fact, the overall ground clearance on this thing is downright eentsy.
> After replacing the switches & reassembling my FK, the lens now intermittently rubs against the surface. Guessing I slightly overtightened one of the PCB screws - will have to install thicker feet to offset.


I sent Zowie/Kingsis a message stating that this design is not optimal and why that is. It mostly comes down to the lens. If they would stop the whole marketing gimmick of "very low LOD", the mouse would be very good. Well, after they fixed their scroll wheel too.

If the FK still tracks with two CDs (about 2.4mm) on your pad, then you can use Zowie's 0.6mm replacement feet. The LOD would be around 2mm.

To bad they kept the same bottom surface design as the AM. That design scrapes the pad, whereas the EC doesn't noticeably do that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> How do the new switches feel in the FK shell? The FK switches are horribly worse than the AM-FG (which I actually liked). Feels as though there's no spring to return to the initial mouse button position.


The design of a switch is a magnet, leaf spring and a contact.

When you have a weak magnet the switch's feel is mostly spring. If the spring is crap, it feels like crap, over time if feels even worse. Also can lead to double clicks when worn out. With the weak magnet you lose the tactile feel and overall the switch is slower. Only good thing you get is reduced pressure for actuation.

Maybe if the travel was reduced to the contact, with the stiffer Huanos, you would decrease the perceived pressure for actuation. At least the delay would decrease for the switch.

I was going to do that, just to decrease the delay for FPS, but I have to desolder the switches to open them.


----------



## end0rphine

Oh was just wondering what Narbotic thought of the new switches he soldered into his FK. I'm currently using one and the switches are worse IMO.


----------



## Narbotic

Definitely digging the new switches. I ended up rushing the installation a bit, and in hindsight, i think they may be a bit taller than the huanos. So I should have shortened the button posts to accommodate them - even still, much easier to actuate == me happy.

Huh - didn't know microswitches used magnets - makes sense I suppose.
Thanks for the lovely magnets, Mr. Omron!


----------



## Luxer

Any place to buy this in US? Gamejava is out of stock until March 30th.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxer*
> 
> Any place to buy this in US? Gamejava is out of stock until March 30th.


Initially GameJava is the retailer in the US. From what I heard, Amazon will get some in two months or more. GameJava pre sold their requested batch quota. The lead time is for a new batch. In other words, you are not getting one soon unless you pre order from GameJava and pay the extra $14 for shipping.

I think GamaJava goes by another name on Amazon. Under that name they sell the Zowie mice cheaper than they tend to do on their personal site. It is fulfilled for them by Amazon, so you get free shipping. However, I think they will not sell the FK through Amazon's fulfillment program for some time, since they sell well on their own site.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> *Just removing the light filter from the Kingsis lens will increase the LOD about 0.6mm* to 2.7mm using a blue Hien.
> 
> Therefore using an Avago lens should give me similar or more LOD. Which I then can use the 0.6mm feet with either lens. Giving me something like 2.1mm LOD. With the Avago lens I will not have to redirect the light like I am with the Kingsis lens that doesn't have the filter on. Also I may get higher malfunction speed with the Avago lens.
> 
> On top of that with the thicker feet the mouse is less prone to scraping the pad and likely will not be as susceptible to static electricity.


Could you go into more detail on the light filter and removing it? Is it on all Zowie mice?

Also where did you get a normal Avago lens that would fit the Zowie molds or is that what you meant earlier when you mentioned "highly modified Avago lens"? Still curious where you can buy stock a Avago lens.


----------



## Skylit

Wouldn't call it a filter. The piece serves as a positioner for LED.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1360827/zowie-am-mouse-review-a-gamers-perspective#post_19303423

I was going to post in this thread, but all you basically need to do is gain access to the lens itself and pop the plastic clip off.

Example:
 Image credit : Skar.

It's not guled or anything. Typical flat head screw driver should suffice. Just avoid scratching actual "eye".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I sent Zowie/Kingsis a message stating that this design is not optimal and why that is. It mostly comes down to the lens. If they would stop the whole marketing gimmick of "very low LOD", the mouse would be very good. Well, after they fixed their scroll wheel too.


Profit >

Of course it's not optimal. It's purposely outside sensor design parameters, though it's not like they don't have engineering that at least understands this.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Wouldn't call it a filter. The piece serves as a positioner for LED.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1360827/zowie-am-mouse-review-a-gamers-perspective#post_19303423
> 
> I was going to post in this thread, but all you basically need to do is gain access to the lens itself and pop the plastic clip off.
> 
> Example:
> Image credit : Skar.
> 
> It's not guled or anything. Typical flat head screw driver should suffice. Just avoid scratching actual "eye".
> Profit >
> 
> Of course it's not optimal. It's purposely outside sensor design parameters, though it's not like they don't have engineering that at least understands this.


You're talking about removing the black clip/piece that surrounds the LED?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> You're talking about removing the black clip/piece that surrounds the LED?


No... There is a second piece to the lens that is molded in a way that allows it to snap in. It covers the eye of the lens.

I refer to it as a filter because it is literally a piece that is blocking light transmission to the sensor. Less light equals less LOD. It also refracts the light downwards in front of the eye, which in itself stops light from getting to the sensor. So what ever word best describes that.



You can see it when you clean the lens -- there is no need to open the mouse to see it.



To take it off. Open the mouse, unscrew the PCB and use a very small screw driver to pry it from the lens in a safe area (that will not scratch the lens).



I used some foil that was "polished". I cut it to length, taped it to the mouse and bent it inward -- to direct the light in front of the eye.


----------



## CorruptBE

Would be interesting to see some results in terms of how it affects max tracking speed and other values. If it doesn't negatively impact these I'm doing this tweak too


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Would be interesting to see some results in terms of how it affects max tracking speed and other values. If it doesn't negatively impact these I'm doing this tweak too


If you do not redirect the light it causes issues. From what I can gather through limited testing.

The max malfunction speed doesn't seem to change in any measurable amount. I think the mouse is limited by the eye of the lens.


----------



## popups

Surprised they didn't use the light box.



Like they did with the AM-FG.


----------



## Skylit

You mean the custom clip? Prob cus the mouse isn't white


----------



## popups

The lower portion is gray. If they don't use it because of the color... way to cheap out.

The assembly clip is supposed to direct the light and align the LED.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> No... There is a second piece to the lens that is molded in a way that allows it to snap in. It covers the eye of the lens.
> 
> I refer to it as a filter because it is literally a piece that is blocking light transmission to the sensor. Less light equals less LOD. It also refracts the light downwards in front of the eye, which in itself stops light from getting to the sensor. So what ever word best describes that.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it when you clean the lens -- there is no need to open the mouse to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> To take it off. Open the mouse, unscrew the PCB and use a very small screw driver to pry it from the lens in a safe area (that will not scratch the lens).
> 
> 
> 
> I used some foil that was "polished". I cut it to length, taped it to the mouse and bent it inward -- to direct the light in front of the eye.


Thank you for posting the images and the info.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The lower portion is gray. If they don't use it because of the color... way to cheap out.
> 
> The assembly clip is supposed to direct the light and align the LED.


Cheaping out on their own design?









There's already a custom clip to align LED. That newer piece added to FG was likely intended to avoid severe LED leakage.


----------



## boOzy

I'm really close to buying this mouse. Just not sure. I'm really picky. Currently using G400 which is absolutely amazing but i know i would like ambidextrous mouse better. For me Xai had best shape, switches and balance ever. Sensor department just doesn't work for my playstyle. Anyone using this fingertip grip? How does it work?


----------



## SyahmiX

so how's the max tracking speed of the FK on clothpad? worse than savu?


----------



## somiao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Cheaping out on their own design?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's already a custom clip to align LED. That newer piece added to FG was likely intended to avoid severe LED leakage.


+1

Not to mention that it is there to maintain consistent illumination for the sensor.


----------



## detto87

FK compared to the shape of Xai/Sensei would be of interest to me too.


----------



## Narbotic

IMO - Works well for fingertip - tho ideally It'd be a few mm shorter.

quite a bit smaller than the sensei - check the dimensions


----------



## popups

_SIZE AND WEIGHT_
*FK*

Weight: 85 grams
Height: 36 mm
Width: 64 mm
Length: 124 mm
*Sensei*

Weight: 90-102 grams
Height: 38.7 mm
Width: 68.3 mm
Length: 125.5 mm



Spoiler: Bottom



FK

Sensei






Spoiler: Top



FK

Sensei






Spoiler: Side



FK

Sensei

FK

Sensei


----------



## Makav3li

It's more like the sensei then the AM.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SyahmiX*
> 
> so how's the max tracking speed of the FK on clothpad? worse than savu?


I would make the assumption it is 2.9m/s on a blue Hien since it is using the same PCB as the AM. I use about 2.3-2.6m/s when gaming on a very low sensitivity with the AM. I never had the AM fail me when used on the correct surface. For certain surfaces and users I think 4m/s would be necessary.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Cheaping out on their own design?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's already a custom clip to align LED. That newer piece added to FG was likely intended to avoid severe LED leakage.


Light passing through the shell? They must have not used it on the EC.







I'll check later and see. All the ECs I had gleam red in a dark room. I personally thought it was cool to have it glow red.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> It's more like the sensei then the AM.


It is pretty close to the AM. I refer to it as the improved AM. The biggest change is the taper outward at the front, followed by the shorter height / apex. Everything else is fluff -- so to speak.


----------



## zeflow

#235

The similarities are there, but the width is 58mm in the middle making it feel much more thin width wise in your hand.


----------



## popups

To bad they didn't have it 60-62mm in the middle. They did make the rear 64mm though, but most complain about the middle being 58mm.

The middle is still 58mm because they use the same PCB and side button mold. It was pretty much an exterior mold change.


----------



## detto87

And that's exactly the reason I'm still not sure about getting a FK.

I grab my AM mostly in claw grip, so my thumb is bent, like in this picture here: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo266/Specter_Phi/MouseGrip-ClawGrip-1.jpg

When hearing that only the front of the FK got more width to it, it seems it's an improvement for people who more like palm their mouse.
When I hold the FK the same way as the AM I would not have any benefit so to speak of the new shape, because the middle part is kinda exactly the same width.

Anybody got to compare the AM and the FK already and can elaborate a bit on this claw grip topic?

(oh, and +rep for you popups)


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Initially GameJava is the retailer in the US. From what I heard, Amazon will get some in two months or more. GameJava pre sold their requested batch quota. The lead time is for a new batch. In other words, you are not getting one soon unless you pre order from GameJava and pay the extra $14 for shipping.
> 
> I think GamaJava goes by another name on Amazon. Under that name they sell the Zowie mice cheaper than they tend to do on their personal site. It is fulfilled for them by Amazon, so you get free shipping. However, I think they will not sell the FK through Amazon's fulfillment program for some time, since they sell well on their own site.


Is that other name they go by on Amazon 3CWorld? Because that's the only place I've seen on Amazon selling Zowie gear and they said "maybe April". Seems like it's going to be another long wait for anyone in the US which sucks because I'd really like to try this one.


----------



## popups

...I cannot say.

All I can say is look at April for Amazon and March for GameJava's site.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> And that's exactly the reason I'm still not sure about getting a FK.
> 
> I grab my AM mostly in claw grip, so my thumb is bent, like in this picture here: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo266/Specter_Phi/MouseGrip-ClawGrip-1.jpg
> 
> When hearing that only the front of the FK got more width to it, it seems it's an improvement for people who more like palm their mouse.
> When I hold the FK the same way as the AM I would not have any benefit so to speak of the new shape, because the middle part is kinda exactly the same width.
> 
> Anybody got to compare the AM and the FK already and can elaborate a bit on this claw grip topic?
> 
> (oh, and +rep for you popups)


That's not true. The biggest change is the area where your thumb would hold the mouse is now sloped in the opposite direction. This makes lifting the mouse easier.


----------



## zeflow

#239

I completely agree. It should be 62mm in the middle.


----------



## zeflow

Here's a size comparison for everyone.

Ec2/FK/Sensei/AM


----------



## shedokan

FK > AM easily

tho EC is my fav


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> #239
> 
> I completely agree. It should be 62mm in the middle.


They might be able to modify the mold to do it.

I wonder if they only had Neo playing with the mouse. Sucks to have only one opinion.


----------



## resis

Dammit, I think I develop the desire to get the FK. Looks like a Taipan, but better (less edgy and gimmicky). I decided to not stick with Zowie in the future, but the FK looks attractive.

Now the wait begins again.


----------



## lokisnake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> I'm really close to buying this mouse. Just not sure. I'm really picky. Currently using G400 which is absolutely amazing but i know i would like ambidextrous mouse better. For me Xai had best shape, switches and balance ever. Sensor department just doesn't work for my playstyle. Anyone using this fingertip grip? How does it work?


I've long since moved away from the Logitech G/MX series after switching to the fingertip grip since the ergo shape and weight only suit the palm grip IMO. I had the Sensei (similar to Xai), and it worked alright, except the left mouse button developed phantom doubleclick issues after a while, and I would've liked it to be a little lighter.

I have a couple of Zowie Mico mice for on the go gaming and/or when I don't need side buttons for push to talk. The Mico would be the perfect mice for me if it had side buttons.

The FK is a very good fit for me, as it's light, isn't super big, and had side buttons. I've had it for almost a week now, and don't see myself from switching for a while. I would say if you liked the Xai shape, this isn't too far off, just slimmer/smaller overall. I haven't used my Sensei in a while. If you're interested, I can compare them more directly when I get home and get back to you.


----------



## boogdud

A slimmer Xai/Sensei shape sounds great to me. The SS shape was always just a bit wide for my liking. I for one am glad they didn't make it 62mm in the middle, there aren't really any other shapes that size in the market right now. The problem with the AM was that it was difficult to lift because of the sloped sides, making it that much wider would have just caused the same issue for me.

Now to find one...


----------



## Antero

g9x claw/fingertipper here. would this be a good mouse for me?


----------



## Sencha

Defo getting one of these soon. Will report back ^-^


----------



## Ino.

I'm still waiting for someone to do some Enotus tests as well as jitter checks with the FK before I consider buying it. If both are ok I definitely will as I always liked the shape of Intelli 1.1 and Xai/Sensei, but none of them performed well enough for me.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I'm still waiting for someone to do some Enotus tests as well as jitter checks with the FK before I consider buying it. If both are ok I definitely will as I always liked the shape of Intelli 1.1 and Xai/Sensei, but none of them performed well enough for me.


I can't say for sure, but I would guess it would be nearly identical to the AM.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I can't say for sure, but I would guess it would be nearly identical to the AM.


I'd think so too, but no confirmation yet


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I'd think so too, but no confirmation yet


True... I am 99% sure it will be the same as the AM, as it is the same PCB, literally.

The only thing I can see changing the performance is if they raised the sensor either by the new mold or thicker feet. In that case it will likely be slightly better.


----------



## scorpot

hi i got Zowie am from 1 week , does the FK have the same grip like AM? and what about griping mouse with thump and ring fingers ? ClowGrip ? ist bigger than AM in width ?


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Is that other name they go by on Amazon 3CWorld? Because that's the only place I've seen on Amazon selling Zowie gear and they said "maybe April". Seems like it's going to be another long wait for anyone in the US which sucks because I'd really like to try this one.


Ravic? Is that you?









Anyways, guys. I spoke with Philip from WEBdanes.dk. He told me that they should receive a shipment of the Zowie FK on Friday or the day before, but he's not too sure. The only thing he knows for sure is that a shipment is on its way.

Since it's a Danish site, they won't ship outside of Denmark. I'm sorry. I wish we could figure something out.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Ravic? Is that you?


Yes, that's Ravic, but don't stalk him too much, that's what I already do


----------



## Crizzl

How does the coating compare to the EC eVos? I read in a review that it was too slippery, so i guess its kind of similar to the EC's








Additionally could someone compare the feeling of the m1 m2, to the EC eVos?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## popups

Rubber coatings are pretty much the same. Grip is more about texture/friction. Rubber doesn't really give you that.

The shell concept of the EC and AM/FK are different. The switches will not feel the same, even when they are.


----------



## Skylit

Basically every mouse... Though, I kinda disagree to an extent.

Omron will feel like omron regardless of tooling.







(Granted the change you're talking about it still there)


----------



## popups

I'm sure he meant the actuation force.


----------



## Skylit

mhmm


----------



## ich1ban

I agree, omrons feel the same with all my mice that use it, 1.1/v3/krait/DA/AM(modded)/FK(modded) regardless of shape/size


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I agree, omrons feel the same with all my mice that use it, 1.1/v3/krait/DA/AM(modded)/FK(modded) regardless of shape/size


Was it hard to replace the switches on the zowie am to Omrons?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I agree, omrons feel the same with all my mice that use it, 1.1/v3/krait/DA/AM(modded)/FK(modded) regardless of shape/size


Again... Yes they always will feel the same, but I was referring to actuation force. I made the assumption he was also.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Was it hard to replace the switches on the zowie am to Omrons?


If you know how to solder, no. Unless you cannot live without the AM, I don't see the point of changing one or two switches. I rather keep the warranty.


----------



## ich1ban

Have you ever soldered before? It's fairly simple and takes a minute or 2 at most with the right tools. Wouldn't recommend buying all the parts if you don't have it yet just to change the microswitches though.

The only tricky part is removing the initial solder.


----------



## popups

I guess these days most people are to entrenched in habit. I can switch between 4 different mice and still perform well. Particular switches and scroll wheels, as long as they function, are a non issue. If any thing should be important to someone it would be ergonomics, then sensor.

Most people that are so nit picky about mice are likely using LCDs with 60Hz. I cannot take those people's complaints seriously.


----------



## Arc0s

Hmm, yeah I have the equipment but you're right about the warranty part; I'll probably just leave them as they are for a while and see if I get used to them. It's the am-fg and they do feel lighter than the EC1 Evo I had so I'll wait and see. Thanks for the info guys.


----------



## theo87

Does anybody know how hard do FK's switches feel in comparesence to G400 switches?


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Does anybody know how hard do FK's switches feel in comparesence to G400 switches?


In terms of pressure its not any harder to press the switch. I would describe it as more tactile.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess these days most people are to entrenched in habit. I can switch between 4 different mice and still perform well.


well then why do you have 4 mice?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> well then why do you have 4 mice?


I don't understand what you're implying. If your question is simply why I use 4 different mice...

Every mouse I own has its own ergonomics traits, CPI, LOD and switch actuation characteristics.

Some days I feel like a stiffer switch, other days I feel like something light, depends on the game or play-style/role I will play. For instance the Zowie EC eVo has very light side buttons -- I feel those are better when using an AWP in CS -- I have mouse 4 bound to quick switch. However, the eVo has an "unresponsive" shell for rapid clicking and I have yet to fix the scroll wheel. So if I want to rapid click an AK or AR and do a lot of boosts/jumps I use an AM. On certain pads I will use a DeathAdder or when I want to use 900 CPI instead of the very high second step of the Zowie mice. On not so demanding days I may use a Diamondback (scroll wheel broke







) because it has light switches, that are more tactile than a DeathAdder 3.5G do to being placed in front of the scroll wheel.

There are many other reasons why I will choose one over the other. Fact is there hasn't been a mouse yet that suits my demands. Maybe the FK will replace the AM. I will see about that when I can get a white version. I dislike rubber coatings to the point of not purchasing a mouse because of it. BST's mouse may replace my Diamondback as it is very similar.


----------



## Antero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> well then why do you have 4 mice?




that's an old pic, i have added about 6 new mice to the collection


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antero*
> 
> 
> 
> that's an old pic, i have added about 6 new mice to the collection


i'd like to take the spawn and inteli mouse for a spin please...


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't understand what you're implying


as i wasnt trying to imply anything, i was legitimately curious to why you switched between 4 mice. you seemed to have explained it all, thanks.


----------



## scorpot

http://tech.163.com/digi/13/0302/22/8P0BDO52001618JV.html

got from bing search ,, its better than google in search


----------



## scorpot

First Unboxing





First Review





From Website
http://tech.163.com/digi/13/0302/22/8P0BDO52001618JV.html


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpot*
> 
> First Unboxing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Website
> http://tech.163.com/digi/13/0302/22/8P0BDO52001618JV.html


Thank you for the links. I think the reviewer did a really good job actually, even though he said it was just an overview.

The fact that people keep saying it's shape is close to the Sensei makes me want this mouse. I use the AM now, but shape-wise, the sensei is the most comfortable mice I have ever used.

Waiting for the white glossy version to hit the market. (if it ever gets released)


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

I am curious how much it will cost here in Holland hopefully there will be a shop selling it with a return policy, I want to try it shape aswell looks more shaped towards my clawgrip.
But its hard to beat the roccat savu at the moment, only mouse shape wise who beats it for me is the cm storm spawn but the roccat savu is nearly as good to it and has better accuracy for me ingame.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> The fact that people keep saying it's shape is close to the Sensei makes me want this mouse. I use the AM now, but shape-wise, the sensei is the most comfortable mice I have ever used.
> 
> Waiting for the white glossy version to hit the market. (if it ever gets released)


I never tried a SteelSeries mouse because they are laser. So I don't know if I would like their shape. Looking at them I would say they are to wide and not very tall. Two things I do not like. I don't want my hand dragging on the pad, I think that is stupid to do.

I do not claw grip and do not plan to ever. Although, to me the FK looks like it would be very good for my three finger palm grip. That is because the sides taper out noticeably, which will not require effort to lift. The arch of the mouse seems like it will fill my hand better than the AM.

Zowie never said they wouldn't do a white version. I just think it takes to long to do, they don't feel like doing it now. They likely want to get out as much mice they can to sell out to early demand. I hope they release a white version when the new batches hit Amazon. I will buy one for sure -- it doesn't hurt that the hardware is a know commodity.

Zowie just needs to ditch that lens and work on their firmware. Most complaints come from that lens when it comes to performance. I read an ESPlanet review on the FK and he complained about the lens. I am hearing that often these days. Heard the same thing with the Razer Viper. Why don't they learn?


----------



## Skylit

Some people prefer pinky drag while playing.

Razer viper used an extremely early design. it wasn't technically suited for gaming in the first place.. IPS wise, Zowie mice are fine (imho, though could improve for those that want it), cursor precision could be adjusted a little though. Of course involves swapping HW.

FW for the most part is ok I suppose (At least in AM FG/FK) Maybe work on fixing internal clock at 500hz. Idk.


----------



## popups

It feels like they do not want to release a version 2 of their mice. Meaning changing some hardware and working on the coding. Also fixing mold issues with their EC and AM. (Yeah I know the eVo can be considered v2.)

It's like... they are close to having a very solid mouse. Just a little here and a little there. Refinement is the word.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Razer viper used an extremely early design. it wasn't technically suited for gaming in the first place.. IPS wise, Zowie mice are fine (imho, though could improve for those that want it), cursor precision could be adjusted a little though. Of course involves swapping HW.


Man, Viper was my favorite mouse. It still holds a special place in my heart. If I could have a modern one with two side buttons and a great optical sensor I'd be in heaven.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Man, Viper was my favorite mouse. It still holds a special place in my heart. If I could have a modern one with two side buttons and a great optical sensor I'd be in heaven.


The sides were better than the Diamondback.


----------



## STRON

Guys,

I have great news for all you desperate people in the States and other countries.

ZowieGear.dk have the Zowie FK in stock and they do ship outside of Denmark.

Link to the mouse: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html

The total price including shipping (FedEx) and PayPal-cost was ~95 USD *(New York). I know it's more expensive than GameJava, but they have it in stock and ready for you to order.









*Shipping cost for EU shipments should be ~11 EUR.

--

Timothy


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I have great news for you desperate people in the States and other countries.
> 
> ZowieGear.dk have the Zowie FK in stock and they do ship outside of Denmark.
> 
> Link to the mouse: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html
> 
> The total price including shipping (FedEx) and PayPal-cost was ~95 USD *(New York). I know it's more expensive than GameJava, but they have it in stock and ready for you to order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Shipping cost for EU shipments should be ~11 EUR.
> 
> --
> 
> Timothy


Thanks, will look at what the cost will be to ship to Holland. May still pull the trigger on this. The more I look and get feedback on the shape the more I want it :\


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Thanks, will look at what the cost will be to ship to Holland. May still pull the trigger on this. The more I look and get feedback on the shape the more I want it :\


You're very welcome, Kazuyamishima.

Holland is 11 EUR, if I'm right. I hope mine is getting here by tomorrow.

Thanks for the rep, by the way.


----------



## Ino.

I really hope they release a version with glossy sides as well. Until then I won't buy it and rather wait for BST's mouse.


----------



## toatoa

Is there good replacement feet for the FK or AM, just got the AM and found the stock feet to be too thin.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Is there good replacement feet for the FK or AM, just got the AM and found the stock feet to be too thin.


Not sure how well they work, but they do have this option. They call them speedy skatez

http://www.zowiegear.com/products?page=shop.browse&category_id=5


----------



## shedokan

What switches does the AM have? I hate it so bad lol, steelseries mice use these too? FK too?


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Thanks, will look at what the cost will be to ship to Holland. May still pull the trigger on this. The more I look and get feedback on the shape the more I want it :\


It will probably be released in Holland beginning of April, for €60

I would just wait the extra month, which also gives time for other people to check for bugs etc in the mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I have great news for all you desperate people in the States and other countries.
> 
> ZowieGear.dk have the Zowie FK in stock and they do ship outside of Denmark.
> 
> Link to the mouse: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html
> 
> The total price including shipping (FedEx) and PayPal-cost was ~95 USD *(New York). I know it's more expensive than GameJava, but they have it in stock and ready for you to order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Shipping cost for EU shipments should be ~11 EUR.
> 
> --
> 
> Timothy


No Red version of the FK?

I've been waiting for BST for 6 months now, and am really itching for a new mouse.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> No Red version of the FK?


I don't know anything about that. I'm sorry.


----------



## aikYu

In Spain is in stock now. I'm very tempted but i would need a switch swap to Omrons...

http://www.vsgamers.es/*****-amarillo-2300dpi-p-919.html

I don't know if the shop ships internationally.


----------



## Sencha

Will dip in once there's a touch of gloss on this badboy to stop it slipping from my hand.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TlMOTHY*
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I have great news for all you desperate people in the States and other countries.
> 
> ZowieGear.dk have the Zowie FK in stock and they do ship outside of Denmark.
> 
> Link to the mouse: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html
> 
> The total price including shipping (FedEx) and PayPal-cost was ~95 USD *(New York). I know it's more expensive than GameJava, but they have it in stock and ready for you to order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Shipping cost for EU shipments should be ~11 EUR.
> 
> --
> 
> Timothy


95 USD.. rofl


----------



## thorsteNN

Caseking.de (shipping all around europe i think) will have them in stock on 05.04.2013 (round about).
Price will be 59,95€ + shipping (may vary).


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thorsteNN*
> 
> Caseking.de (shipping all around europe i think) will have them in stock on 05.04.2013 (round about).
> Price will be 59,95€ + shipping (may vary).


A month... nooo.

Wait, do you mean 05.04., or 04.05.? Lol

5th April 2013? Sure it's not 1st April?









Also, a month... nooo.


----------



## popups

At least now the FK is listed on their new site.

Zowie, now list a white FK version!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Is there good replacement feet for the FK or AM, just got the AM and found the stock feet to be too thin.


Have you thought of using the set included in the box on top of the ones on the mouse already? The ones that Zowie sells should be thicker at 0.6mm.

You could buy some 0.5-0.8mm Intellimouse feet and use those. One added benefit to doing that is lower mouse feet to surface contact / less friction compared to the Zowie original feet. Downsides: you have a limited height you can use with Zowie mice and it will not feel as smooth as the larger feet.


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Have you thought of using the set included in the box on top of the ones on the mouse already?


Haven't tried that yet wanted it to be the last resort. Will try getting a pair of the zowie speedy skatez .6mm and see how they fair.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> At least now the FK is listed on their new site.
> 
> Zowie, now list a white FK version!


Could you link me to that? Can't seem to find it at all.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Could you link me to that? Can't seem to find it at all.


http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Is there good replacement feet for the FK or AM, just got the AM and found the stock feet to be too thin.


Just use some 1.1/3.0 feet.


----------



## STRON

Got the FK today. All I can say is "WAOH!"









So much better than my Sensei Raw, I can't even describe it. From recoil-control, the stiff buttons, the coating... I really love this mouse.


----------



## zeflow

Yeah dude, best switches on a mouse for fps hands down.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-fk-3461p.html


Lol, i totally misread what he said. I thought he meant that zowie now offered a white version of the FK as well. Apologies for the derp.
Thanks for the link tho'.


----------



## scorpot

Quote:


> Yeah dude, best switches on a mouse for fps hands down.


----------



## scorpot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Lol, i totally misread what he said. I thought he meant that zowie now offered a white version of the FK as well. Apologies for the derp.
> Thanks for the link tho'.


lool me too


----------



## resis

Me too.







Was looking for it like mad.


----------



## popups

You guys must be very excited to try out a glossy version of the FK.


----------



## Skylit

lol.


----------



## nlmiller0015

is it ok to replace the mouse feet 1.1 hyperglide ones?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> is it ok to replace the mouse feet 1.1 hyperglide ones?


As long as they are 0.6mm or under. That should be safe to use without having to mess with the lens.


----------



## scorpot

new review looool

New Unboxing


----------



## shedokan

I feel sorry for this mouse.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new review looool
> 
> New Unboxing


This is just awful, lol.


----------



## popups

Wait until the white version comes out... There maybe some soapy water being thrown around... Lots of bubbles...


----------



## Jinholic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new review looool
> 
> New Unboxing


What did I just watch?


----------



## Arc0s

I'm definitely giving this mouse a try when the white version comes out.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

ordered one just for lols wanne see how it compares to my Savu else I use it at work and not for my gaming at home


----------



## Makav3li

Video is hilarious.


----------



## detto87

Ordered one myself too, will arrive beginning of next week.

The Zowie Sensei.
Let's see how that works out.


----------



## Chex12

takastas review is out!


----------



## Sencha

***delete


----------



## rezolve

Definitely going to order one of these when they become available in the UK, I still love my wmo but wouldn't mind something with a higher malfunction speed


----------



## scorpot

there is huge differents between wmo and AM, FK in grip and sensor


----------



## theo87

Mine just came, I will post my impressions after few days. But for now I can definietly say the difference between AM and FK is astonishing.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Mine just came, I will post my impressions after few days. But for now I can definietly say the difference between AM and FK is astonishing.


People have been saying pretty much without exception, despite the fact that it is highly subjective, that they like the shape of the FK over that of the AM by a large margin. It also gets compared to the Sensei when it comes to shapes all the time. These things made me extremely curious. I like the AM , but a Sensei with a better sensor is pretty much my dream mouse.

So I finally pulled the trigger and just went ahead and ordered it. I feel like it is a bit of a waste since I have not had my AM all that long. I want to sell it, but I fear it would not be easy to sell, since it seems to be a bit of a niche item. Maybe I will just keep it around as a back up or something , or give it to one of the people I game with. I dunno.


----------



## detto87

The coating isn't all that grippy as some people claim it to be.
It's just a tad bit more grippy than the AM when your hands are dry.
When gaming for 10 minutes and longer, the grip improves though.
Something that I haven't had the pleasure with the AM. There the grip was consistently not-that-good.
So overall I would say the coating is better than the AM's.

The shape is definitely better for palming, because those "lips" for the thumb and the ring finger help to lift the mouse.
For claw grip I feel no difference compared to the AM.
But I often use some sort of hybrid, meaning I palm the mouse, but my index and middle finger move ever so slightly towards the wrist.
http://cdn.overclock.net/6/60/6057b201_claw-grip-palm-grip.jpeg
Combine the palm grip image below with the index and middle finger from the claw grip above (though maybe not that extreme). Notice that the thumb stays the same, so it's not bent.
Overall I enjoy the FK more shape wise than the AM because I like to palm-claw hybrid. But it's only by a slight margin.

Mouse buttons are a tad bit easier to click and that's a very nice improvement for me.
Same tactileness and exactly right force needed to activate imo.
Side buttons are easier to click but feel a bit mushier. I like the AM sidebuttons more.
Scrollwheel and cable are exactly the same and I'm fine with that.

Is it a Sensei Zowie? No.
Is it the 1.1-shape or WMO-shape? No.
It has its own good shape and combined with the more sticky coating and ilghter buttons, it feels like a more agile AM.


----------



## a_ak57

After doing some research, this thing sounds like it'll be my best choice for a mouse. It's gonna be painful waiting until April to actually get one. :/


----------



## trhead

Not a bad mouse, love the shape and low weight. 1150dpi step is really ~1220-1230.

I still don't like Huano switches. After using Sensei RAW and DeathAdder 2013 they feel way too heavy. Slightly lighter than AM tho so at least they didn't make it worse


----------



## Sencha

I never had a problem with lifting the Xai or sensei but due to dry hands things like the AM and DABE where no goes, my hands don't even really generate moisture after 20mins of play. Is it worth buying this? or should I hold off for some gloss?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Not a bad mouse, love the shape and low weight. 1150dpi step is really ~1220-1230.
> 
> I still don't like Huano switches. After using Sensei RAW and DeathAdder 2013 they feel way too heavy. Slightly lighter than AM tho so at least they didn't make it worse


Iron solder is your friend.


----------



## nlmiller0015

this mouse is great I perfer it more than my DA and g9x and I used both 3 years each


----------



## scandalous

This is a very interesting mouse and the impressions I've read so far seem to be very positive. I think I'll pick one up, but waiting until April to get one pretty much sucks.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Not a bad mouse, love the shape and low weight. 1150dpi step is really ~1220-1230.
> 
> I still don't like Huano switches. After using Sensei RAW and DeathAdder 2013 they feel way too heavy. Slightly lighter than AM tho so at least they didn't make it worse


Well the 4G DeathAdder did copy the SteelSeries mice. For instance the new switch placement.







The switches feel different in the 2013 because of that.

Zowie has the switches forward of that location like the Intellimouse. However, the Intellimouse uses Omrons. Look towards the eVo for contrast.

When you have the switches all the way in the front of the mouse they will always feel stiffer, regardless of the manufacture. When you place them behind the wheel the lighter they feel. SteelSeries mice and the 4G DeathAdder put them in the middle, neither stiff or light.

Don't forget that the springs wear. They become lighter over time. Omrons can become mushy, whereas stiffer switches will still have some bounce to them.


----------



## Skylit

Wouldn't call it copying. Just planned EE.


----------



## blackmesatech

They adjusted where the side buttons are compared to the AM correct? I'm curious if they'll be as noticeable on the right side for someone that grips the mouse with two fingers on that side as they are on the AM, one of the reasons I couldn't use the AM.


----------



## theo87

After two days of using I have to say I'm really happy with this mouse. After total disappointment after buying AM, I was extremely skeptical towards FK. I'm EX DA and G400 user. I always felt a need for smaller mouse and took a shot for FK.

Shape is very good for claw and palm with medium size hands. Buttons are similar to G400 (noticalbly harder compared to Deathadder 3.5G). Scrollwheel is ok, not good, not bad. Precise but I don't like sound it makes. Side buttons are placed in pretty good spot, You can reach them without much effort. Tracking is beast, not much to say. I play non fps games also and I have no problem with Huano switches so people who are affraid of this should know that new placement of swtiches made massive difference in comparsion to AM. Great mouse overall, I only hope it won't break.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I never had a problem with lifting the Xai or sensei but due to dry hands things like the AM and DABE where no goes, my hands don't even really generate moisture after 20mins of play. Is it worth buying this? or should I hold off for some gloss?


The coating is the best I laid my hands on for sweaty hands.
I usually don't have sweaty hands, because it's nasty.








But in game .. yep, my hands get more warm.








The grip then is fantastic.

After using the FK for a bit longer now, I can say that it is a really good fingertip mouse.
Palming works quite well too.
And claw-grip too.
But with both those grips I tend to dislike the lip on the right side that goes down in the front. It should be higher. But it's kinda nitpicking. No real trouble with any grip. But I tend to use the fingertip grip the most with this mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> I play non fps games also and I have no problem with Huano switches so people who are affraid of this should know that *new placement of swtiches* made massive difference in comparsion to AM. Great mouse overall, I only hope it won't break.


The location of the switches is the same as the AM. Same board and firmware.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> But with both those grips I tend to dislike the lip on the right side that goes down in the front. It should be higher. But it's kinda nitpicking. No real trouble with any grip. But I tend to use the fingertip grip the most with this mouse.


You mean the tapered sides of the shell?

That is one problem with claw grip focused mice. They tend to be 38mm or under. I wish the FK was 40mm like the EC2. Although with the apex change I think 38mm would be fine. It would help with the 2 fingers on the side palm grip.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That is one problem with claw grip focused mice. They tend to be 38mm or under. I wish the FK was 40mm like the EC2. Although with the apex change I think 38mm would be fine. It would help with the 2 fingers on the side palm grip.


What do you mean by apex change?

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=bildschirmfoto2013-03znsmb.png
Sometimes I have the feeling that my ring finger presses 'against' the lip. It's not a real problem as it isn't as pronounced as the lip on say the G400/MX518.
But it would have been even better with this slightly more space for the ring finger.[

Actually .... when the descriptions of the grips are correct on the Razer website, then the FK is pretty much the best claw-grip mouse where the palm only ever so slightly touches the back/base of the mouse. That's why I said I mostly use finger-tip grip. In reality though it should be called a hybrid between claw and fingertip. Which I like!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> What do you mean by apex change?
> 
> Sometimes I have the feeling that my ring finger presses 'against' the lip. It's not a real problem as it isn't as pronounced as the lip on say the G400/MX518.
> But it would have been even better with this slightly more space for the ring finger.


When I say "apex", I'm referring to the arch of the mouse compared to the arch of the AM.

Would you agree it would have been better if it was taller? So you would have room for your fingers.


----------



## scorpot

I found this picture on Neo facebook

20000.1363216311&type=3&permPage=1

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151305914737941&set=pb.231663227940.-2207520000.1363216311&type=3&permPage=1

and this is older picture



i think thats why gamers say its more like SS Sensie


----------



## thorsteNN

old pic, was posted here few times already.
its one early sample of the zowie.
he used several on several events.


----------



## RyuLAN

I have the FK and _mostly_ really like it, but I've noticed I can't click nearly as fast as I can on most of my other mice. A little hard to explain, but when I try to click very fast, it's like mouse1 doesn't come back up fast enough and stays pressed down. So when I'm in game, my gun fires kind of stuttery. Does that make any sense?

Is there a mouse like the FK but with better switches, or is this really in its own category right now?

Looking for a mouse with the same kind of \_/ shape, no correction/accel, and side buttons. I really love my old Diamondback and wish they'd make a new one (to give you an idea of where I'm coming from/what I'm looking for).


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> I have the FK and _mostly_ really like it, but I've noticed I can't click nearly as fast as I can on most of my other mice. A little hard to explain, but when I try to click very fast, it's like mouse1 doesn't come back up fast enough and stays pressed down. So when I'm in game, my gun fires kind of stuttery. Does that make any sense?
> 
> Is there a mouse like the FK but with better switches, or is this really in its own category right now?
> 
> Looking for a mouse with the same kind of \_/ shape, no correction/accel, and side buttons. I really love my old Diamondback and wish they'd make a new one (to give you an idea of where I'm coming from/what I'm looking for).


It's still huano switches which are terrible. High actuation force, more stiff clicks. I modded my EC2 evo with some Omrons 01F's from Japan and they are divine. I'm in the market for another mouse (because why not). I will probably buy an EK and then mod it again.

Zowie could probably double its sales if it just used quality switches and none of this Huano crap. FPS' are barely staying alive on PC wheras MOBA and RTS is exploding. In these latter games, APM is everything and quality switches matter.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> I have the FK and _mostly_ really like it, but I've noticed I can't click nearly as fast as I can on most of my other mice. A little hard to explain, but when I try to click very fast, it's like mouse1 doesn't come back up fast enough and stays pressed down. So when I'm in game, my gun fires kind of stuttery. Does that make any sense?


This is true about the Huano Light switches. They have a bad reset, but they are lighter like the Omrons. I think this is because of the very weak magnet. I prefer the stronger magnet, the Huano heavy version everyone else hates, because the reset is so much faster.

Considering the design of these types of switches you must have a trade off somewhere.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> It's still huano switches which are terrible. High actuation force, more stiff clicks. I modded my EC2 evo with some Omrons 01F's from Japan and they are divine. I'm in the market for another mouse (because why not). I will probably buy an EK and then mod it again.
> 
> Zowie could probably double its sales if it just used quality switches and none of this Huano crap. FPS' are barely staying alive on PC wheras MOBA and RTS is exploding. In these latter games, APM is everything and quality switches matter.


The Huano switches are not crap. They are "chosen" for FPS gamers not MOBA. Although Zowie says that the Huano switches are preferred by those who helped with the Mico. You don't need a mouse like a DeathAdder or Zowie for those games.

Blah, blah, blah...


----------



## Skylit

Just seems like they're saving money from my point of view.


----------



## Narbotic

using a resonator instead of a crystal def saves money.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Just seems like they're saving money from my point of view.


From what I hear... They use Huano because they cannot get lasting Omrons.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> When I say "apex", I'm referring to the arch of the mouse compared to the arch of the AM.
> 
> Would you agree it would have been better if it was taller? So you would have room for your fingers.


Yeah, if only for just a tiny bit.
But I guess after getting used to it it's all (very) fine.
No other mouse to this date offers me the quality, performance, lod, cable, grip and shape in one uncomplicated software free package.
Happy camper.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I hear... They use Huano because they cannot get lasting Omrons.


Did a Zowie rep tell you that?


----------



## popups

I don't remember if it was because of quality control / lasting Omrons. Either way, be it cost (what have you), they feel like it's better for them.

We know when a company has to provide large quantities of their product the result is a higher failure rate. Zowie wouldn't get the benefits that Razer does.


----------



## zeflow

The reset of the huanos aren't slower IMO, I mostly play FPS and can shoot just as fast with this mouse than any other mice I've owned.

I will say that zowie mouse seem to be inconsistent in terms of production quality, you may have received a defective mouse (Ryu).


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> It's still huano switches which are terrible. High actuation force, more stiff clicks. I modded my EC2 evo with some Omrons 01F's from Japan and they are divine. I'm in the market for another mouse (because why not). I will probably buy an EK and then mod it again.
> 
> Zowie could probably double its sales if it just used quality switches and none of this Huano crap. FPS' are barely staying alive on PC wheras MOBA and RTS is exploding. In these latter games, APM is everything and quality switches matter.


I am not sure whether terrible is the right word. Maybe it is just me, but I think the huano switches feel alright, without having an effect on my real ingame performance. I actually ended up getting used to and quite liking the huano switches. And I play games like CS:GO (for which it is really not an issue) but also DOTA, and have been for years, at a decent level. I personally feel like the issue is not as big as people make it out to be, nor is there any clear best regardless of preference. But then again, who is to say, to each their own and all that.

When I got my FK, I really already had a good idea of what I could expect. The shape is really nice and exactly what I had hoped for. Just because if this, and because mouse shape is such a big issue for me, I do not think I will be switching mice anytime soon again.

One thing that was quite unexpected, is how much different the coating on the FK is compared to the AM. I did not like the rubber coating on the AM. I thought it was slippery and felt plain bad. This is also why I originally wanted to wait for a full gloss version of the FK before making the purchase. But I was pleasantly surprised. While the FK also has a rubber coating, it is one of the few rubber coatings in mice that I like. Somehow, this actually IS grippy to me, while usually these coatings are worse for me than regular plastic. This has now turned out to be one my most liked features about the mouse, even when I thought it was something I would just have to put up with.

I think I have tried 5 different mice in the past 3 years. Some of which I wrote mostly negative reviews about on this site. The zowie AM came closest to what I wanted, and while the grip was fine, it was really noticable how much better wider mice like the sensei fitted into my hand. The huano switches were not an issue for me, but I really disliked the coating. The FK addressed every single dislike I had about the AM, and is the first mouse in a while that I actually really like without any real issues that I have with it. Though it took me while (and too much money to be honest) to finally find the mouse I was looking for.

But as always with peripherals, it will not suit everyone. Your particular anatomy, preferences and intended use all play a role in which peripheral is right for you. For me, my search for a good mouse ends here and I am quite happy about it...

I have 3 mice to still sell... or maybe I should put them up as prizes for my clan's upcoming LAN.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> I am not sure whether terrible is the right word. Maybe it is just me, but I think the huano switches feel alright, without having an effect on my real ingame performance. I actually ended up getting used to and quite liking the huano switches. And I play games like CS:GO (for which it is really not an issue) but also DOTA, and have been for years, at a decent level. I personally feel like the issue is not as big as people make it out to be, nor is there any clear best regardless of preference. But then again, who is to say, to each their own and all that.
> 
> When I got my FK, I really already had a good idea of what I could expect. The shape is really nice and exactly what I had hoped for. Just because if this, and because mouse shape is such a big issue for me, I do not think I will be switching mice anytime soon again.
> 
> One thing that was quite unexpected, is how much different the coating on the FK is compared to the AM. I did not like the rubber coating on the AM. I thought it was slippery and felt plain bad. This is also why I originally wanted to wait for a full gloss version of the FK before making the purchase. But I was pleasantly surprised. While the FK also has a rubber coating, it is one of the few rubber coatings in mice that I like. Somehow, this actually IS grippy to me, while usually these coatings are worse for me than regular plastic. This has now turned out to be one my most liked features about the mouse, even when I thought it was something I would just have to put up with.
> 
> I think I have tried 5 different mice in the past 3 years. Some of which I wrote mostly negative reviews about on this site. The zowie AM came closest to what I wanted, and while the grip was fine, it was really noticable how much better wider mice like the sensei fitted into my hand. The huano switches were not an issue for me, but I really disliked the coating. The FK addressed every single dislike I had about the AM, and is the first mouse in a while that I actually really like without any real issues that I have with it. Though it took me while (and too much money to be honest) to finally find the mouse I was looking for.
> 
> But as always with peripherals, it will not suit everyone. Your particular anatomy, preferences and intended use all play a role in which peripheral is right for you. For me, my search for a good mouse ends here and I am quite happy about it...
> 
> I have 3 mice to still sell... or maybe I should put them up as prizes for my clan's upcoming LAN.


Damn, if the rubber coating really is grippy for dry hands then you just made me want it even more... I was about to wait for a glossy version as well


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Damn, if the rubber coating really is grippy for dry hands then you just made me want it even more... I was about to wait for a glossy version as well


It is always hard to judge how others would evaluate it. Take the glossy coatings for example. Some love them, others sincerely hate them.

I personally really like this coating, and it is significantly different from the AM's coating (I have the two mice here side by side). I should note that , like you said, I have really dry hands. It feels a little less rubberized then the AM. Almost like it is a cross between that kind of rubberized coating and normal plastic. The difference, to me, is most noticeable where I grab the mouse at the sides (thumb, ring finger, pinky). It really feels grippy and securely in hand, which it did not for the AM *(the fact that the mouse is wider in the front also factors into this of course, but the coating makes a considerable difference).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> It is always hard to judge how others would evaluate it. Take the glossy coatings for example. Some love them, others sincerely hate them.
> 
> I personally really like this coating, and it is significantly different from the AM's coating (I have the two mice here side by side). I should note that , like you said, I have really dry hands. It feels a little less rubberized then the AM. Almost like it is a cross between that kind of rubberized coating and normal plastic. The difference, to me, is most noticeable where I grab the mouse at the sides (thumb, ring finger, pinky). It really feels grippy and securely in hand, which it did not for the AM *(the fact that the mouse is wider in the front also factors into this of course, but the coating makes a considerable difference).


Yep, my hands are dry too. I could not grip the DA BE comfortably at all. Normal glossy DA sticker to my fingers perfectly.


----------



## avinin1




----------



## popups

Is that not Neo's setup?



Neo bootcamp.


----------



## detto87

Actually, it isn't neo, but etp. Whoever that is.


----------



## zeflow

Zowie FK with new feet installed from gamejava. I thought they would be thicker than I wanted, but my mouse was still dragging on my hard pad so I installed another set on top of the first ones.
Its really nice to say the least.

I know this is a double post but I accidentally posted this on takastas review thread.


----------



## Bentz

So I was looking through the videos on Neo's youtube channel... and I found this. It made me laugh.


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Zowie FK with new feet installed from gamejava. I thought they would be thicker than I wanted, but my mouse was still dragging on my hard pad so I installed another set on top of the first ones.
> Its really nice to say the least.
> 
> I know this is a double post but I accidentally posted this on takastas review thread.


So you put 2x0.6mm mouse feet on and it still tracked fine?

Thought the low lod would make it not track properly with mouse feet that thick.


----------



## avinin1

Oh, didn't notice that. it was really weird&funny so I had to post it up. well, thanks for correction.
Zowie made really terrible headset.

Btw, talking about Neo, how he is considered on CS:GO? is he any good as he used to be @ 1.6?


----------



## shedokan

hes very good but hes not above his teammates as in 1.6, and they cant compete yet with the best team on LAN


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joshvr*
> 
> So you put 2x0.6mm mouse feet on and it still tracked fine?
> 
> Thought the low lod would make it not track properly with mouse feet that thick.


Yeah man it tracks perfectly. The liftoff distance is just above two CDs with these feet installed.

#369
Neo is still a top tier player, and TaZ is really good at GO
Its not just ESC but no one has really came close to beating NiP on LAN yet.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Yeah man it tracks perfectly. The liftoff distance is just above two CDs with these feet installed.
> 
> #369
> Neo is still a top tier player, and TaZ is really good at GO
> Its not just ESC but no one has really came close to beating NiP on LAN yet.


It is odd that the LOD is so high with feet that are about 1.2mm. Generally the Kingsis lens' LOD on black cloth should be 2-2.25mm, with the light filter on it can be lower. The AM LOD (on my pad) is around 2.1mm without the light filter and feet that are around 0.38mm.

Discs can range from 1.2mm to 1.25mm.

ESC did beat NiP on Train. That has to give them the confidence they are lacking.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It is odd that the LOD is so high with feet that are about 1.2mm. Generally the Kingsis lens' LOD on black cloth should be 2-2.25mm, with the light filter on it can be lower. The AM LOD (on my pad) is around 2.1mm without the light filter and feet that are around 0.38mm.
> 
> Discs can range from 1.2mm to 1.25mm.
> 
> ESC did beat NiP on Train. That has to give them the confidence they are lacking.


I really wanna get this mouse. But it isn't available anywhere (that doesn't ask 13 euro's for shipping:| )..
I'll wait patiently until april and see who has it available at a decent price + shipping. Ordering from zowie directly is expensive as hell.

And NiP has been beaten before.......online that is. It's the LAN part that's important, and when it comes to that, no one comes even close to touching them.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> I really wanna get this mouse. But it isn't available anywhere (that doesn't ask 13 euro's for shipping:| )..
> I'll wait patiently until april and see who has it available at a decent price + shipping. Ordering from zowie directly is expensive as hell.
> 
> And NiP has been beaten before.......online that is. It's the LAN part that's important, and when it comes to that, no one comes even close to touching them.


I'm waiting for a white version. I don't think that is coming any time soon. So I may just get a rubber version and do what I did to my DA BE.

NiP lost (legitimately) online to n!faculty and ESC Gaming. They "lost" to WRTT online, but they are hackers. Their other lost online was to a very suspect team going by SY_B, which lost their contract with Western Wolves because they couldn't perform at LAN. I say SY_B is suspect only because I didn't see that match, but from what I heard and saw later, that team also hacked online.


----------



## jayfkay

edit: nevermind. 124 mm length will likely be too small.

Guys, is this mouse recommendable for a g400 palmgripper?
I really need my ring finger to be on the right mouse button / edge rather than on the side like the pinky.. is this possible with the FK?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> edit: nevermind. 124 mm length will likely be too small.
> 
> Guys, is this mouse recommendable for a g400 palmgripper?
> I really need my ring finger to be on the right mouse button / edge rather than on the side like the pinky.. is this possible with the FK?


Why not just go for another g400? Or better yet, the newly announced g400s?


----------



## Harrywang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Yeah man it tracks perfectly. The liftoff distance is just above two CDs with these feet installed.
> 
> #369
> Neo is still a top tier player, and TaZ is really good at GO
> Its not just ESC but no one has really came close to beating NiP on LAN yet.


Just wondering, what mice does the best team in CS:GO use?


----------



## shedokan

All of steelseries mices. 2 ikari 1 kinzu 1 xai 1 kana


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Just wondering, what mice does the best team in CS:GO use?


http://www.nip-gaming.se/the-team/


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> http://www.nip-gaming.se/the-team/


You have to also take into account that they are sponsored by Steelseries. Other teams that have been sponsored by razer for example, and have been extremely successful with Razer equipment. Some Korean Starcraft 2 players have gone to tournaments with keyboards that people here think of as being the equivalent of a keyboard made out of cardboard (old rubber dome crap) and absolutely dominated.

I think what you need to take away from this is that even at the highest level of competitive gaming, there are different kinds of equipment that are all viable, as long as they pass some level of performance. Also, equipment is not the determining factor. You just need something that will not get in the way. The steelseries mice, the zowie mice in this topic, mice like the Deathadder and abyssus, G400 etc. all satisfy these requirements. This also explains the variation in mice that are used.

Btw the fnatic and SK gaming these guys also all seem to use mostly Steelseries, think Na'vi does as well. The ikari optical and the xai seem especially popular. The starcraft 2 players in team liquid, though less mouse dependent, use all sorts of things. From the Zowie Mico to the Razer Krait.


----------



## end0rphine

Yeh I'm aware teams have to use whatever they're given to fulfill their contracts. Was just answering his question.


----------



## b0z0

I'll stick with my sensei till it dies. Then I may go to the FK if it's close to the sensei in shape. I truly hated the Zowie AM due to the horrible shape. Caused my hand to cramp from being to narrow.


----------



## shedokan

AM easily the worst mouse I ever had, FK being so similar to AM makes me scared


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> AM easily the worst mouse I ever had, FK being so similar to AM makes me scared


Can you explain why it is the worst mouse you ever owned?
Not that I am a defender of the overpriced mice of zowie but curious what you disliked.


----------



## b0z0

Most people had issues with the / \ shape with the mouse. The mouse tracked well, didn't like the stiff buttons also.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Just wondering, what mice does the best team in CS:GO use?


NiP - steelseries sensei/xai/kinzu v2 pro/ikari
Verygames - razer deathadders
Navi - steelseries sensei

Most top American players use the steelseries sensei, razer deathadder, g400/mx518, and zowie ec1. Semphis from quantic still uses a 3.0 and so does TaZ from ESC. Starix from navi may still use a 1.1 not sure tho.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> NiP - steelseries sensei/xai/kinzu v2 pro/ikari
> Verygames - razer deathadders
> Navi - steelseries sensei
> 
> Most top American players use the steelseries sensei, razer deathadder, g400/mx518, and zowie ec1. Semphis from quantic still uses a 3.0 and so does TaZ from ESC. Starix from navi may still use a 1.1 not sure tho.


Could you post a source for this info? I'm not doubting its reliability but I think it would be an interesting read.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

I know that fifflaren







uses a kana


----------



## thorsteNN

fifflaren kana
get right xai
f0rest kinzu
friberg + xizt ikari optical

(source nip-gaming.se)


----------



## a_ak57

I find it interesting the Sensei is common, doesn't it have acceleration?


----------



## thorsteNN

yes it does. but that is the point so many people don't get.
the shape is way more important than the sensor it uses.
and then its just practice practice practice...
remember the times when f0rest, get_right, edward of navi etc used the kinzu v1, which had MASSIVE acceleration.
they still dominated everything around the globe.
people think way too much that the equipment makes the skill ;D


----------



## zeflow

There's really no source, it's from watching them at tourneys.

Fifflaren does use the kana.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Could you post a source for this info? I'm not doubting its reliability but I think it would be an interesting read.


You can see what equipment they use at tournaments on pictures by organizations that cover said events. Most popular is http://www.hltv.org.

Most of these teams are sponsored by companies like steelseries, razer and zowie, just to name a few. And most are under contract and are therefor obligated to use the gear of those companies. They don't always do it out of free will. They just take whatever they think is the best option from whoever sponsors them, practice with it and become good with it. Take for example Karrigan, currently playing for mousesports. He had to switch from razer gear to steelseries gear when he joined fnatic, and back to razer gear when he joined mousesports again.

I think ESC gaming is the only Top-Tier team I've seen that has always used their own mouse despite all of the organizations they've represented.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thorsteNN*
> 
> fifflaren kana
> get right xai
> f0rest kinzu
> friberg + xizt ikari optical
> 
> (source nip-gaming.se)


Correct, except f0rest broke his kinzu v1 and replaced it with v2 rubberized version.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I find it interesting the Sensei is common, doesn't it have acceleration?


The things is, when you see people like skylit, bulleveyr etc. (i hope i wrote that right) speak on the subject that is peripherals and compare that to what the "normal" market actually knows and care about. You'll see that they and the people on this forum represent a very, very, very small portion of the market. Most of these pro players ( and not only them) hardly care or don't even know all the "flaws" that the sensei, kinzu (just to name a few) have.

Professional player just.... play. And they are good because they are exceptional players and a mouse isn't going to take it away from them. Nor will it give their skills to someone else. A 5% acceleration curve on their mouse isn't going to make them bad and probably won't improve their game either if taken away. They just practice with what they've got and will be good regardless.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thorsteNN*
> 
> yes it does. but that is the point so many people don't get.
> the shape is way more important than the sensor it uses.
> and then its just practice practice practice...
> remember the times when f0rest, get_right, edward of navi etc used the kinzu v1, which had MASSIVE acceleration.
> they still dominated everything around the globe.
> people think way too much that the equipment makes the skill ;D


Exactly. And while the mouse an important factor, as long as the hardware doesn't hinder you in a huge way. You'll be good regardless if you were meant to be good and put in the hard work and practice.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Professional player just.... play. And they are good because they are exceptional players and a mouse isn't going to take it away from them. Nor will it give their skills to someone else. A 5% acceleration curve on their mouse isn't going to make them bad and probably won't improve their game either if taken away. They just practice with what they've got and will be good regardless.


You're spot on here.


----------



## Skylit

I certainly agree with above points. Comfort is my number 1 concern.


----------



## detto87

One problem I have with the mouse:

The right mouse button is easier to press than the left one.
The left one feels like a AM switch. The right one like a G400 one.


----------



## Diogenes5

I agree to an extent. Comfort is king, but tracking does matter. You don't see FPS gamers use the sensei when they can use a kana or kinzu v2. FPS player will pick the best mouse from their sponsor and that is almost always an avago 3090 mouse.

RTS players don't care about 100% tracking as much which is why many pros use the sensei and g9x. However, everytime I see one, it's usually on a hard mousepad that minimizes acceleration.

There is a reason why many pro gamers use a deathadder or abyssus and not a naga or imperator when sponsored by Razer. They have comfort but also good tracking.

Do you know why Call of Duty is not as popular as CS 1.6 as a game for e-sports? The tracking properties and gameplay change each game. Pros can't develop the muscle memory to excel so COD is a small-time player despite being one of the biggest games (in terms of sales) out there. The training pros put in is intense and ferocious and they need to develop good muscle memory. So yes, tracking definitely matters.

As for the Zowie FK, I've been looking for a good claw mouse ever since I sold my CM Storm Spawn. The Scout Recon hasn't been available afaik in the states. Hopefully the Zowie comes out within the next month on someplace like amazon or newegg. I would slap some D2F-01F Omrons in that bad boy and go to town in SC2.


----------



## zeflow

#397

As far as FPS gamers you actually see many more players using the sensei over the kinzu and kana regardless of sponsorship.


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> #397
> 
> As far as FPS gamers you actually see many more players using the sensei over the kinzu and kana regardless of sponsorship.


Well yea it's marketed as the highest end gaming mouse SS has to offer and the kinzu and kana is for smaller hands.


----------



## popups

SteelSeries provides many sponsorships along with Razer. I don't know who is sponsoring more between those two.

If I had to use Razer mice, I would use the DeathAdder. Steel Series, I would likely use the Kana, maybe Ikari optical. Zowie, would go with the FK. Roccat, the Savu or Kone. The mice I would use if I had no imposed obligations, would be the Zowie FK, followed by a DeathAdder.

My priority is "accuracy" (deviation or acceleration, what have you) of the mouse over the shape. I can adapt to most shapes, my performance isn't really affected by it. Sure, comfort is sacrificed, but I will be uncomfortable for the sake of winning. My performance is not at its best when the cursor doesn't land in the same area in relation to my arm movement. I have become accustomed to moving a certain physical distance for a specific amount of in game movement. Additionally. my brain is working less when I do not have to compensate (much) for the sensor's accuracy. In other words, my brain isn't working as hard trying to calculate the required movement for every kill, it just becomes reflex/instinct.

Switches, scroll wheels, cables, colors, light effects and mouse feet, are things you can generally ignore during play.

For me: sensor -> mold/shape -> scroll wheel -> switches -> cable.


----------



## Bentz

Shape is far more important than sensor IMHO. Even if my g500 had a decent sensor, I know for sure that I would still play better with my kana because of the shape and weight. There's just no way you can maneuver a g500 in the same way as a smaller, lighter mouse like the kana.

Oh and btw the cable may seem unimportant, but if you've ever used a WMO on a small desk you might think otherwise.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kazuyamishima

A mouse needs to do at least decently in both comfort and performance. If the sensor performs decently enough to be acceptable, I find comfort the most important thing. I would rather have a great shape with an ok sensor than the other way around. Of course, ideally I would want both.

Another thing I care a lot about is weight. Not everyone really cares about this, and it probably has to do with what genre of games you play and what kind of sensitivity/playstyle you have. But I have found that lighter weight mice generally feel a lot better to me. Having used some heavier mice in the last couple of years and then returning to sub-90 grams mice, I discovered that I have quite a strong preference for light weight mice. I find it matters a lot for my overall comfort. Maybe that is because I tend to lift the mouse a lot.


----------



## dabster

Well I got one today. I like it better then my ec2. The scroll wheel was always a bit wonky on my ec2. This one is much better.


----------



## b0z0

Anyone know when this will be available in the U.S?


----------



## Bentz

Sometime this month I believe.

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk HD


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Anyone know when this will be available in the U.S?


They say the end of this week, most likely next week.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

I have my FK now for over a month, not enjoying it anymore only using it at work switches are okay but omron's feels definity better for me.
They say its more for clawgripping but I dont find it comfortable I feel that my savu and cm storm spawn are better shaped towards my clawgrip.
Mousewheel feels to hard to spin overal I find the mouse way to overpriced at seeing what you can get for the money in the market at the moment. Tracking wise its okay but then again my savu feels way better.
The best postitive things I can mention is it lod and the nice yellow colour wich I find a nice change seeing almost everytime blue and red.

coating is a preference I find it okay not super, but if you have very dry hands the mouse will be slippery if you sweat a little youre hand will have a nice firm grip because of the vacume it gets with the coating can't explain it any better it just seems the grip gets better if you hands are not to dry.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> I have my FK now for over a month, not enjoying it anymore only using it at work switches are okay but omron's feels definity better for me.
> They say its more for clawgripping but I dont find it comfortable I feel that my savu and cm storm spawn are better shaped towards my clawgrip.
> Mousewheel feels to hard to spin overal I find the mouse way to overpriced at seeing what you can get for the money in the market at the moment. Tracking wise its okay but then again my savu feels way better.
> The best postitive things I can mention is it lod and the nice yellow colour wich I find a nice change seeing almost everytime blue and red.
> 
> coating is a preference I find it okay not super, but if you have very dry hands the mouse will be slippery if you sweat a little youre hand will have a nice firm grip because of the vacume it gets with the coating can't explain it any better it just seems the grip gets better if you hands are not to dry.


Thanks for the info, no buy for me then. Still waiting for BST's mice and the G100s


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Just keep rocking the Savu inno, its a hard mouse to beat if you like the shape internal hardware is top par against other mice at the moment in the market.
And BST mouse sighh.... well someone made me laugh really hard in the esreality thread.
He compared it to duke nukem forever.
And its seems going that way at first it seems very promising but with the release getting delayed and delayed when it will come out it will be sup par with what is already released current on the market.
Just if shape is better for youre liking it could be promosing.
G100 seems okay from what I heard and read from Skylit just price is off but again if shape is to youre liking why not pay a bit more.


----------



## zeflow

http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=news&d=comments&id=12567


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Thanks for the info, no buy for me then. Still waiting for BST's mice and the G100s


Yeah no go for me either. Got bone dry hands....looking forward to BSt's and G100s.


----------



## meih

If you have dry hands and hate the grip but otherwise like the mouse you could try putting electrical or clear tape on the mouse. Personally I only sweat on my fingers so if I have a rubber-coated mouse (like this deathadder black edition) I put some electrical tape on the back of it. I like the rubber coating on the fingers though so I don't put it on the sides or on the buttons. Here's a picture (wow that was a low light photo, looked decent on my phone's screen):



If you don't like it you can easily peel it off and just wipe the residue. It also lasts quite a few months until it starts to come off.


----------



## popups

As I said before about rubber coatings, you can use clear tape to mimic a glossy surface. I have taped the sides and rear of the DeathAdder BE. I cut the tape to the shape of the DeathAdder. My other mice are glossy, so I do not have to do that.

If I can no longer wait I will do the same with the FK. However, I have been waiting this long to buy a FK because there isn't a white version. I should be able to wait some more.

The FK has tapered sides. So there shouldn't be much of an issue lifting it even with the coating.

(You are slipping Zowie. Hurry up and bring out a white version. You will sell a lot more FKs.)


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CtrlAltel1te*
> 
> I have my FK now for over a month, not enjoying it anymore only using it at work switches are okay but omron's feels definity better for me.
> They say its more for clawgripping but I dont find it comfortable I feel that my savu and cm storm spawn are better shaped towards my clawgrip.
> *Mousewheel feels to hard to spin overal I find the mouse way to overpriced at seeing what you can get for the money in the market at the moment*. Tracking wise its okay but then again my savu feels way better.
> The best postitive things I can mention is it lod and the nice yellow colour wich I find a nice change seeing almost everytime blue and red.
> 
> coating is a preference I find it okay not super, but if you have very dry hands the mouse will be slippery if you sweat a little youre hand will have a nice firm grip because of the vacume it gets with the coating can't explain it any better it just seems the grip gets better if you hands are not to dry.


This is what I fear. I hate the wheel in the AM, which actually was my main critique point way before the sides and stiff buttons. Can't wait to get away from such ****ty wheel design, but now I hear from people that the wheel on the FK isn't good either. Holy momma of god, can't they just make a good wheel for once?
I think mouse is overpriced, but the improved shape and lighter switches kind of convinced me, but with a bad wheel, no deal I'm afraid.

I still hate Roccat for going with such a ****ty shape with the Savu (personal opinion of course). I think their Lua mouse has awesome shape and weight, but obviously it's tiny and has no side buttons. Gosh can't the people not just make a simple good ambidextrous mouse (personal opinion)?

Bst takes forever.







Mah money is sittin' loose and nobody wants to have it. Alright.


----------



## popups

The wheel design has been the same for what, a decade?

I personally like the fact it has 16 notches over the typical 24. Yes, it is more difficult to break free when it is in the detent. If I can get a very distinct scroll wheel with 16 notches, yet smoother, I will be happy. I guess Logitech does it (concept is similar) better, but it has a higher number of notches. I wonder how it would feel to use weaker springs in the Kingsis wheel.


----------



## Skylit

I find Zowie's encoder extremely annoying when you want to scroll fast. Not as much of an issue if you're not spamming to navigate on webpages/certain games.

Logitech's optical design is a bit different. Reminisce of below design. Concept is similar, though inverted.



Scrolling itself is achieved with a thin bendable metal pin rotating around teeth (notches). Easy to modify feedback though plastic will eventually wear. Less defined.


----------



## resis

Yeah, the fast scrolling is really bad. With my Diamondback I can fly through pages, yet can clearly select guns in games. I'd generally wish for a bit more pronounced steps on the Diamondback, but I find it is still better than the super stiff Zowie wheel (it's stiff, I need to put more force on it to scroll, while with other mice I need less).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Yeah, the fast scrolling is really bad. With my Diamondback I can fly through pages, yet can clearly select guns in games. I'd generally wish for a bit more pronounced steps on the Diamondback, but I find it is still better than the super stiff Zowie wheel (it's stiff, I need to put more force on it to scroll, while with other mice I need less).


I do NOT care about fast scrolling with a gaming mouse. That is why I like the 16 detentes over the 24. I buy a "gaming" mouse not for the web surfing experience. There are a lot of Microsoft mice that are made for that.

The 16 detent design reduces the possibility of over scrolling in game by spacing out each detent. Unlike the 24/+ detent design. The more detentes the smoother the feeling and it can make it easier to scroll. However, I don't want to accidentally scroll 3 times when I wanted to scroll two.


----------



## Skylit

Everyone has their own preferences. Lets leave it at that.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I do NOT care about fast scrolling with a gaming mouse. That is why I like the 16 indents over the 24. I buy a "gaming" mouse not for the web surfing experience. There are a lot of Microsoft mice that are made for that.
> 
> The 16 indent design reduces the possibility of over scrolling in game by spacing out each indent. Unlike the 24/+ indent design. The more indents the smoother the feeling and it can make it easier to scroll. However, I don't want to accidentally scroll 3 times when I wanted to scroll two.


You have a point. I guess that was Zowie's main thinking behind the design and I admit the steps are very well pronounced, which I consider a good design. My problem with the AM scroll wheel is mainly that it sits too tight. If I have a bit less dry finger tips, than it gets harder to move it, need to really press on it slightly to move it, or actually use the nail to put them in the wheel notches to move it. Not very practical and the wheel is generally horribly loud.
I know the EC eVo's have a bit different design (size), but the ones I tested had easier to scroll wheels and worked well.

Well, I may still try the FK, hope the wheel just doesn't sit too tight.

Also, I guess my problem is, that I buy one mouse, I use one mouse. For years if necessary (usually). So I guess I am looking for a good allrounder. May this be my problem? I can't think of it to be that difficult. Well, Roccat Savu was a great mouse on all accounts, just the shape.


----------



## popups

I think the scroll wheel would be better if they used a roller instead of a bearing. The feel of the detentes would probably feel better if shaped differently Logitech's wheel is very similar except it uses a wire instead of a bearing.

How are the Roccat mice? To bad they went off the deep end with the Lamborghini styling. Why copy a silly company like Lamborghini for your mice?


----------



## Skylit

The newest Roccat mice are equipped with a variation of ALPS EC10E mechanical encoder. For the most part, this is my favorite model, but not without minor issues... Longevity is extremely high.

Kone pure design is quite modern/not over the top. I actually like it.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The newest Roccat mice are equipped with a variation of ALPS EC10E mechanical encoder. For the most part, this is my favorite model, but not without minor issues... Longevity is extremely high.
> 
> Kone pure design is quite modern/not over the top. I actually like it.


Is that one used in the Savu as well? Because I really like the scroll wheel on the Savu and was wondering what makes it so nice.


----------



## popups

Is there any mechanical encoders out there that are under 24 detentes?


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Is that one used in the Savu as well? Because I really like the scroll wheel on the Savu and was wondering what makes it so nice.


Yes. Pyra, Kova+, Savu, Lua and Kone Pure share the same encoder.


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is there any mechanical encoders out there that are under 24 detentes?


Not that i know off.


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They say the end of this week, most likely next week.


Like where? Amazon?


----------



## jeffk

They changed the glide since the EC Evo and AM ? They feel a lot slower... And they are thinner, we feel mouse's plastic through...

Thoses glides that they are selling at the zowie website, are they 100% teflon ? the 0.8mm for AM. (Read somewhere that is the same form between FK and AM)


----------



## boogdud

So has anyone received an FK order from gamejava.com? It was the only retailer on the zowie site so I put an order with them before the 3/30 first shipment arrived, but apparently they say they 'sold out' and now they're supposed to get a new batch on 4/6 and they say they'll ship them out on 4/7 (which is a Sunday...). Not feeling very confident about this at all.


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffk*
> 
> They changed the glide since the EC Evo and AM ? They feel a lot slower... And they are thinner, we feel mouse's plastic through...
> 
> Thoses glides that they are selling at the zowie website, are they 100% teflon ? the 0.8mm for AM. (Read somewhere that is the same form between FK and AM)


I actually emailed zowie because the site used to say the feet are .6mm thickness and they confirmed the stock feet and speedy skatez are .6mm.


----------



## jeffk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> I actually emailed zowie because the site used to say the feet are .6mm thickness and they confirmed the stock feet and speedy skatez are .6mm.


Not sure about the size, but the stock pads on the FK are surely not 100% teflons as the EC.

I Ordered Speed Skatez AM for my FK, as said on the site they sould be 100% teflon this time...

I'll see... So sad that the stock skatez on the FK are not like the EC... 5€ + delivery for skatez...

---

To speak about the thickness, on some site they say 0.6mm some other (the zowie) they say 0.8mm, crazy that Zowie said to you that is .6mm when its .8mm on the site. They sould work on a better website, or at least update it.

( http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-speedy-skatez-3255p.html )

The stock skatez are so thick that there is some hollow on the glide where the mouse's plastic is not perfectly falt.


----------



## Skylit

No feet are really "teflon". (DuPont isn't exactly happy about the marketing even if it depicts Polytetrafluoroethylene or "PTFE").

Brands source specific mixtures of the same or similar material. Cheaper or more expensive variations.


----------



## jeffk

So the FK stock are cheaper :O


----------



## popups

If I change the lens to an Avago I end up with 980 CPI.... I cannot use that! The lower step would be 390, but that step is very weird / not very good. What the hell... Zowie needs to change that firmware.

If you lower the sensor below the standard height does that actually increase CPI? I know increasing the sensor height will lower CPI. My guess is it wouldn't change the CPI from the default value.


----------



## resis

Does the yellow FK wheel glow in the dark slightly?


----------



## boogdud

Finally got mine in the mail, I _really_ love the shape of this mouse. This is what the AM should have been to start with. Sensor/performance is pretty much identical to the AM, it's just an easier to grip (and lift) version of the AM. Previously the EC2 was my favorite shape, period, but this one may give it a run for it's money.

Ideally I'd like a better wheel encoder, this is the same exact wheel as the AM which seems a little rough/loud compared to most other modern mice wheels. Something like the Savu's wheel would be tremendous on this mouse.


----------



## discoprince

where can i purchase in the USA?


----------



## popups

I am pretty disappointed by Zowie. They haven't released a white FK. They should have released a white version for their second batch. That would have kept the momentum of the FK sales going. Seems like they now have tapered down, we'll see. If so, *BIG* mistake Zowie...

I am growing more irritated by the day with their CPI steps / firmware. They should have also took the opportunity to change their firmware with the FK release. I would have been fine if they only did that -- even if they didn't change the lens. I could have fit a lens and would have been happy.

I hate this concept of extremely low LOD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Ideally I'd like a better wheel encoder, this is the same exact wheel as the AM which seems a little rough/loud compared to most other modern mice wheels. Something like the Savu's wheel would be tremendous on this mouse.


I agree the wheel design can be better. However, I disagree with the idea that Zowie mice should have a 24 detent wheel. That is not to say that it should or shouldn't be a mechanical. Simply, less detents is preferred by some (maybe many) "competitive" FPS gamers.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> where can i purchase in the USA?


Have you ever heard of the great river that flows through South America? It is the second longest in the world and accounts for nearly 1/5 of the world's total river flow.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Have you ever heard of the great river that flows through South America? It is the second longest in the world and accounts for nearly 1/5 of the world's total river flow.


No is not on Amazon yet.


----------



## MKUL7R4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> No is not on Amazon yet.










I could've sworn I saw it on Amazon with the past week or two


----------



## toatoa

They say it was delayed til May for Amazon since they are running out of stock. You can get it on gamejava through ebay for $70.


----------



## resis

The Westerosi are inferior people, they need to wait longer.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> They say it was delayed til May for Amazon since they are running out of stock. You can get it on gamejava through ebay for $70.


I will wait until May 2015 to buy a new FK if that is when a white version comes out. Voting with my money.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could've sworn I saw it on Amazon with the past week or two


I've searched for it everyday so I think you may be mistaken. I can't wait for this mouse. I wanted something closer to my cm storm spawn. I will be modding every switch in it when I get it and showing the worklog.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> I've searched for it everyday so I think you may be mistaken. I can't wait for this mouse. I wanted something closer to my cm storm spawn. I will be modding every switch in it when I get it and showing the worklog.


There's apparently 1 here: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_31173.html


----------



## zeflow

#444

Nobody cares man, all you do is complain about about a mouse you don't even have. if you think everything is wrong with the fk then don't buy it. Competitive FPS gamers are going to buy this mouse and frag with it, bottom line.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKUL7R4*
> 
> Have you ever heard of the great river that flows through South America? It is the second longest in the world and accounts for nearly 1/5 of the world's total river flow.


I've checked amazon repeatedly since the FK was announced. its not there yet








was hoping someone might know a lesser retailer that might have them in stock. or an EU company that was willing to ship overseas.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> They say it was delayed til May for Amazon since they are running out of stock. You can get it on gamejava through ebay for $70.


thank you so much! +REP


----------



## Valgus

Concaved M1 and M2: yay or nay?

I imagine a palm-gripper would like them but what about everyone else?


----------



## b0z0

How does this mouse size compare to the Sensei?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> #444
> 
> Nobody cares man, all you do is complain about about a mouse you don't even have. if you think everything is wrong with the fk then don't buy it. Competitive FPS gamers are going to buy this mouse and frag with it, bottom line.


If you only knew...









The hardware is from the AM. Which means I know how it performs. The only thing that differs is the shape and stress relief, no?

What is wrong with me stating that I will not buy a product that is not suitable for my hand? I would assume Zowie Gear appreciates all the white/glossy mice I have bought from them.

Is there some fanboyism going on here?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Valgus*
> 
> Concaved M1 and M2: yay or nay?
> 
> I imagine a palm-gripper would like them but what about everyone else?


I like a curve for the main buttons. Like a Diamondback, DeathAdder and EC. I prefer the less onerous curve of the EC over those other mice.

The AM is more round and tapers to the sides. I do not like this. It ruins the feel of the switches.

Yes, I use a palm grip.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> How does this mouse size compare to the Sensei?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19373770


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you only knew...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardware is from the AM. Which means I know how it performs. The only thing that differs is the shape and stress relief, no?
> 
> What is wrong with me stating that I will not buy a product that is not suitable for my hand? I would assume Zowie Gear appreciates all the white/glossy mice I have bought from them.
> 
> Is there some fanboyism going on here?


Ok, so you know how the sensor performs. I have both mice as well, and honestly they are nothing alike other than the sensor performance. It just seems like you continuously knock the mouse, when you haven't even used it, that is all.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Ok, so you know how the sensor performs. I have both mice as well, and honestly they are nothing alike other than the sensor performance. It just seems like you continuously knock the mouse, when you haven't even used it, that is all.


They didn't take my suggestion on dimensions. However...









The FK is very close to what I would want from a mouse with a rounded rear . It's very much like one of my sketches. With the exception of dimensions, lack of ferrite, lens and firmware.

If you only knew...


----------



## Skylit

implying they took your suggestions?


----------



## Yahar

I find Zowie AM's 450 step laggy. The feel is like wading through mud compared to 1150 and 2300. 2300 feels most responsive, 1150 is definitely better than 450. The 450 feels like 5-10mS input lag. I have no idea how could the controller take that much time to scale it from 2300. This is one of the reasons Zowie FK isn't appealing to me as they said they didn't change internals.

The 450 dpi vs 1150/2300 step is very distinctive. Is this the case with all mice? Or is there better controllers on some mice that can do this faster? I am pretty scared how this will affect on BST mouse for example. I wonder if the 800 step is truly native or just scaled 1/4 or 1/5 from 3200/4000.


----------



## Skylit

Yes, 2300 feels great compared to other two steps, granted cursor speed and angle is just too much for me. No, most interpolation is done in half increments if anything, but still results in a slight delayed feel.

Savu is a mouse with all native registry values. BST's 800 should also be fine assuming opted for default values provided by manufacturer, though FW and electrical can also impose to an extent.

Many variables.


----------



## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Yes, 2300 feels great compared to other two steps, granted cursor speed and angle is just too much for me. No, most interpolation is done in half increments if anything, but still results in a slight delayed feel.
> 
> Savu is a mouse with all native registry values. BST's 800 should also be fine assuming opted for default values provided by manufacturer, though FW and electrical can also impose to an extent.
> 
> Many variables.


Yeah, 2300 is just too much, but so is 1150. 400-800 is optimal for me.

So the BST's 800 is a native registry but the 400 is halved down from 800? How does Savu have native 400 step? Different FW/SROM?


----------



## Skylit

I don't know about BST, but there are possible work arounds for 400.


----------



## somiao

So basically you prefer calculations via SROM vs MCU(halving the steps)?

*edit typos


----------



## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somiao*
> 
> So basically your prefer calculations via SROM vs MCU(having the steps)?


native registry steps


----------



## popups

Put it simply. Zowie should have just used the native CPI to the sensor/srom.

Oh, the curse of less than 2mm LOD. Much rather have had to buy a specific mouse pad.

Would be cool if you could swap out the components with ones that have the native steps.


----------



## Ickz

Just got my mouse today - ordered from that gamejava site. Everything seems solid - not crazy about the shell, but I've been using the same logitech shell for the past... uh... many years. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Was worried about huano switches, but they feel quite nice and have no complaints. The mouse feet they come with are ridiculous - they almost seem like they're flush against the mouse bottom. Luckily I use a cloth pad, otherwise I have a feeling there would be grinding/scraping issues with a hardpad.


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> Just got my mouse today - ordered from that gamejava site. Everything seems solid - not crazy about the shell, but I've been using the same logitech shell for the past... uh... many years. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Was worried about huano switches, but they feel quite nice and have no complaints. The mouse feet they come with are ridiculous - they almost seem like they're flush against the mouse bottom. Luckily I use a cloth pad, otherwise I have a feeling there would be grinding/scraping issues with a hardpad.


I'm going to try putting another set of mouse feet on top of the FK when it arrives. When I tried the AM on top of the soft pad Razer Goliathus Control, the mouse would sometimes scratch against the textured surface of the pad but it was noticeable enough that it was annoying since the feet are too thin.


----------



## Ickz

Starting to get used the to shell and I'm really digging it. First mouse since mx518/g400 that I've been happy with.


----------



## RyuLAN

After testing out the DA, Taipan, and a few others, the Huano switched now make me sad.

It's like taking batting practice and then getting up to the plate in the game with donuts on the bat.

-Ryu


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> After testing out the DA, Taipan, and a few others, the Huano switched now make me sad.
> 
> It's like taking batting practice and then getting up to the plate in the game with donuts on the bat.
> 
> -Ryu


You get used to them. Your fingers get stronger.

The only thing I like about them is the quicker reset over the typical Omron switches. They also don't feel as squishy as the commonly used Omrons.

I want to try out the D2F-01 switches on the AM/FK. I hear you need a tall variant from them to work in the Zowie shells. Is this true? If so, what is the model name for the 150gf taller version?


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You get used to them. Your fingers get stronger.
> 
> The only thing I like about them is the quicker reset over the typical Omron switches. They also don't feel as squishy as the commonly used Omrons.
> 
> I want to try out the D2F-01 switches on the AM/FK. I hear you need a tall variant from them to work in the Zowie shells. Is this true? If so, what is the model name for the 150gf taller version?


If you paly something that doesn't require over 100 APM ... maybe. D2F-01's are all the same switch-wise. The differences come from the connectors and whether there's a lever on top of the plunger.

D2F-01F's are the name of the ones that would replace your main mouse buttons. There are also some special right angle connector ones that usualy go into side buttons.

I just made a big purchase of them to replace the side buttons on my death adder and future zowie-fk myself.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> If you paly something that doesn't require over 100 APM ... maybe. D2F-01's are all the same switch-wise. The differences come from the connectors and whether there's a lever on top of the plunger.
> 
> D2F-01F's are the name of the ones that would replace your main mouse buttons. There are also some special right angle connector ones that usualy go into side buttons.
> 
> I just made a big purchase of them to replace the side buttons on my death adder and future zowie-fk myself.






I heard you needed to buy the version with the hinge. They said it is as tall as the Huanos, whereas the plunger versions are not. Is that complete BS? Maybe they were referring to the plunger being shorter between the two?

I like stiffer switches for FPS, so I would buy the D2F-01 for mouse 1-3. I would use the D2F-01F for the side buttons on all my mice and maybe the main buttons on the EC shell.

I would change all my mice to those switches because I can decrease (by mod) the travel distance and modify the actuation force.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> I heard you needed to buy the version with the hinge. They said it is as tall as the Huanos, whereas the plunger versions are not. Is that complete BS? Maybe they were referring to the plunger being shorter between the two?
> 
> I like stiffer switches for FPS, so I would buy the D2F-01 for mouse 1-3. I would use the D2F-01F for the side buttons on all my mice and maybe the main buttons on the EC shell.
> 
> I would change all my mice to those switches because I can decrease (by mod) the travel distance and modify the actuation force.


The plungers are huge. I thought so myself so I got both when I modded my EC2 evo. However, the plungers were far too large and my mouse worked fine with normal D2F-01F's. You can rip the plungers off and they are just normal D2F's. If you have issues you can always stick some durable tape between the switch and the mouse shell.

As for the effect of stiffer switches, if a game doesn't require high APM, it doesn't matter that much and is more subjective. Huanos are fine for FPS but they are pretty bad for RTS/MOBA. Also switches are less of an issue if the mouse shell incorporates some kind of lever to actuate buttons. For example, my EC2 side buttons are incredibly easy to depress even though they use huanos because the side buttons buttons act as large levers.

I prefer the softest clicks possible now which is why I couldn't go to the SAVU which would've been perfect for me a year ago. I can only use mice that can be moddable with D2F-01F's.


----------



## RyuLAN

If any of you replace the Huanos on the FK, please post a DIY







There are many, myself included, that would love that mod.

-Ryu


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> To bad they didn't have it 60-62mm in the middle. They did make the rear 64mm though, but most complain about the middle being 58mm.
> 
> The middle is still 58mm because they use the same PCB and side button mold. It was pretty much an exterior mold change.


I owned in past the AM, I think it's too long considering it is 58mm in middle....

I have tried DA 3.5g, Kinzu v2, AM, Abyssus, MX310.
My favorite is Abyssus followed by DA 3.5g.
I think the Abyssus is a bit too long for my hand, maybe too thin(?)

I might try the FK, also looking at Roccat Pyra and CM Storm Xornet.

here is my current grip, top left is mouse lifted up from mouse pad.


----------



## popups

I like to have my palm entirely on the mouse. I don't curl (claw) my fingers and I lift the mouse with the palm. So that would require a longer mouse with a certain angle to the rear.

You on the other hand seem to do the opposite. So a shorter length mouse seems a better fit for you. Being wider and having the apex towards the rear also seems like something that will suits you. Which is very much what the Abyssus is.

Do you think BST's mouse will fit you?

http://www.erasem.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/P3070326.jpg

I think must grown people need a wider mouse. 58mm is just so thin.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _I think_ must grown people need a wider mouse. 58mm is just so thin.


I don't think you (or I) speak for 'most grown people'







(most sane people, unlike us, probably don't care so much about mouse grip techniques). Palming a mouse to me is how a caveman would control things. It just seems to lack any kind of subtlety in control. The lighter and smaller the mouse the better, for me personally. I don't even touch the mouse with anything other than my fingertips and thumb and rest my palm on the mousepad (pretty much exactly how the shots above show).

Also, I am fully grown









It takes all kinds I guess. Which is why none of us are ever happy lol.


----------



## resis

The best shape I've yet found in mice are Kana, AM and I guess FK will be too. Diamondback would come after them.
The only real flaw to the AM shape are the sides.
12.5 centimeter is most perfect for me, not more, not less, just that. Zowie nailed that for me and Diamondback also had this "golden length". The way I grip is actually a bit like palm grip with the palm resting firm on the back side of the mouse (I find AM is excellent to palm grip), but the fingers slightly bent, that way I can switch to finger tip any time for fine aiming. During heated gaming I tend to curl the fingers even more, resulting in a strong claw grip and this allows me to extend the fingers very fast and move the mouse away from the palm into a finger tip position.

This is pretty much why AM, Kana and also Diamondback are the most perfect shapes for me, because they are alround. They don't force me into a style. They are not too short to force me into the claw/fingertip, they are not too large to force me into the palm. For my average hand size they allow me to do any grip I want at any time without feeling off or uncomfortable. These shapes feel like an extension of my hand. I'm never going to by a mouse with any other shape than that. Well, Aurora (bst's) will be an exception, but it comes close to the Diamondback, just a bit too short.

I guess to each its own. There are no truly universal shapes that fit all people, but the AM, Kana and FK are the shapes coming the closest to universal for me.

By the way, "caseking.de" got them in stock now:
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Media-PC/Maeuse/ZOWIE-FK-Pro-Gaming-Maus-schwarz::22599.html?language=en

Edit: I only wished AM/FK had LEDS.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I only wished AM/FK had LEDS.


They do. On the bottom of the mouse where they belong.









Seriously, I am fine with one LED at the scroll wheel like the EC, as long as I can turn it off.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They do. On the bottom of the mouse where they belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, I am fine with one LED at the scroll wheel like the EC, as long as I can turn it off.


/high five

Also, anyone ordered the speedy skatez for the FK/AM? If so are they thicker than the standard feet?


----------



## popups

The original feet are about 0.4mm. I don't think anyone here has bought and measured the replacement feet. Zowie claims 0.6mm.


----------



## Skylit

Stock feet are thinner than the replacements it comes with. Newer AM's were also like this.


----------



## mousefan

For the Zowie FK and AM you can also easily use four simple Intelliskates. I did that with almost every AM I had and right now I still have Twenty Intelliskates from Steelseries and still six from Intelliskates from Zowie which are both very good.

Means you dont have to look at the specific AM and FK Skates if you want to have a excellent Glide with this Mouse.

I expect my Zowie FK tomorrow by the way. I let you know what I think.


----------



## Makav3li

Just got my FK yesterday. I let the cord straighten for a day and now time to see if I like it better than the AM


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If I change the lens to an Avago I end up with 980 CPI.... I cannot use that! The lower step would be 390, but that step is very weird / not very good. What the hell... Zowie needs to change that firmware.
> 
> If you lower the sensor below the standard height does that actually increase CPI? I know increasing the sensor height will lower CPI. My guess is it wouldn't change the CPI from the default value.


What is this lens replacement you speak of? 1000 DPI is my ideal step, so if I can get that from this/the AM and do some huano switch surgery then that may be enough for me to get one...


----------



## popups

Modifying a standard Avago lens. You would have to cut a few areas out of the lens and shave it down a little. Then it will fit right in without having to modify the shell. Add thicker feet and replace the switches. That is what I would do to the AM.

With the FK I would do the same, but would keep the switches, they are different in the FK it seems.

In modern games I can use 1000 CPI. I rather have 480-500 CPI though.


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Modifying a standard Avago lens. You would have to cut a few areas out of the lens and shave it down a little. Then it will fit right in without having to modify the shell. Add thicker feet and replace the switches. That is what I would do to the AM.
> 
> With the FK I would do the same, but would keep the switches, they are different in the FK it seems.
> 
> In modern games I can use 1000 CPI. I rather have 480-500 CPI though.


Interesting. Does anyone have any discription on the switch stiffness compared to the AM's switches? I found the AM switches to be a good deal too stiff. Ideally I think the razer abyssus' omrons are spectacular.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Why can't I order this mouse from within the Netherlands?







Its been out for a while now...


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Why can't I order this mouse from within the Netherlands?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its been out for a while now...


I don't think they have a retailer in The Netherlands, or Germany for that matter. I seem to recall reading in the Esreality thread that people who wanted the mouse from NL had to order from the danish site, which was pretty pricy (about €75?)


----------



## Ino.

Some third party trader on Amazon Germany has it in stock for 66€. Don't know how trustworthy that is though.


----------



## Bullveyr

Caseking (German shop) has the FK in stock for 59,90 EUR, shipping to the Netherlands would add 7,90 EUR.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> Caseking (German shop) has the FK in stock for 59,90 EUR, shipping to the Netherlands would add 7,90 EUR.


Oh that's pretty reasonable actually. Usually shipping from Germany is like 15 euroes..

I was originally going to wait for the BST mouse, but its taking too long. I just hope this mouse isn't to small for my 19cm hands


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> What is this lens replacement you speak of? 1000 DPI is my ideal step, so if I can get that from this/the AM and do some huano switch surgery then that may be enough for me to get one...





Spoiler: picture





thread


I have just measured, on purple step (AM) exactly 900 dpi. SS NP+ Mat.
Quote:


> I was originally going to wait for the BST mouse, but its taking too long. I just hope this mouse isn't to small for my 19cm hands


How do you meassure? Like Takasta did - see below (19 cm he has), seems easy to do:


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I like to have my palm entirely on the mouse. I don't curl (claw) my fingers and I lift the mouse with the palm. So that would require a longer mouse with a certain angle to the rear.
> 
> You on the other hand seem to do the opposite. So a shorter length mouse seems a better fit for you. Being wider and having the apex towards the rear also seems like something that will suits you. Which is very much what the Abyssus is.
> 
> Do you think BST's mouse will fit you?
> 
> http://www.erasem.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/P3070326.jpg
> 
> I think must grown people need a wider mouse. 58mm is just so thin.


Well I don't think the BST mouse will ever be released








But not sure, I wish I had better grip for my pinky and thumb.
Looks like BST is longer and wider compared to Abyssus.
I'm not even sure I need a wider mouse, maybe just a more ergonomic grip.

I do remember the AM being very awkward to grip for me.

I do own a RAzer DA 3.5g, it definitively is a Palm mouse, it's actually nice mouse it propably has superior internals to my Abyssus, I do play with the Abyssus though, the DA is a bit too big for my hand, also it is difficult to lift up, I play 65cm/360 so there is alot of mouse lifting/moving going on


----------



## pruik6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Why can't I order this mouse from within the Netherlands?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its been out for a while now...


Here you can find one in the Netherlands: http://afuture.nl/productview.php?productID=976068
I gonna buy one aswell coming week.
To be sure send a email to afuture ,if its really a mouse.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> Here you can find one in the Netherlands: http://afuture.nl/productview.php?productID=976068
> I gonna buy one aswell coming week.
> To be sure send a email to afuture ,if its really a mouse.


Sweet thanks. I'll order it when I get my next paycheck








+rep


----------



## CattleCorn

Just bought an FK. Can't wait for it to come in.


----------



## mousefan

I got mine since yesterday and I can say you it's absolutely fantastic. The Buildqiality is zowie-like excellent. Way better than any Steelseriesmouse available when touching, feeling and looking at the Mouse with your Hands and Eyes. The new V Shape is the absolute Sensei Competitor. You can imagine that Shape the same in terms of length and height, but only 5 mm smaller in width.

The Construction with the new middlepiece is great to divide the Mainbuttons clean and quality-like.

Everything else in known from the AM.

A few weeks ago I started one Thread, called "imagine the Sensei Frost Blue with a clean optical Sensor." At that Time I didn't new such a Mouse would almost exactly come up with the new FK, cause I didn't new how almost identical the Shape from the FK compared to the Sensei is from that few Pics I saw.

The FK is a Masterpiece Guys. You got a "GO for it" from me.

Comparision to IMO1.1, Sensei and Zowie AM.


----------



## Makav3li

Agree with the guys above. It reminds me of the Xai with the side indents. The AM is more like the IMO. Having used both for extended periods I prefer the Xai shape, so the FK is perfect.


----------



## pruik6

With the Zowie fk mouse you have aswell on both sides side buttons, can u disable them on one side?
or is the buttons well placed so you not accedently press them.

Mousefan , is that a topre keyboard with doubleshot keycaps?


----------



## CattleCorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> I got mine since yesterday and I can say you it's absolutely fantastic. The Buildqiality is zowie-like excellent. Way better than any Steelseriesmouse available when touching, feeling and looking at the Mouse with your Hands and Eyes. The new V Shape is the absolute Sensei Competitor. You can imagine that Shape the same in terms of length and height, but only 5 mm smaller in width.
> 
> The Construction with the new middlepiece is great to divide the Mainbuttons clean and quality-like.
> 
> Everything else in known from the AM.
> 
> A few weeks ago I started one Thread, called "imagine the Sensei Frost Blue with a clean optical Sensor." At that Time I didn't new such a Mouse would almost exactly come up with the new FK, cause I didn't new how almost identical the Shape from the FK compared to the Sensei is from that few Pics I saw.
> 
> The FK is a Masterpiece Guys. You got a "GO for it" from me.
> 
> Comparision to IMO1.1, Sensei and Zowie AM.


Thanks and +rep


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> With the Zowie fk mouse you have aswell on both sides side buttons, can u disable them on one side?
> or is the buttons well placed so you not accedently press them.
> 
> Mousefan , is that a topre keyboard with doubleshot keycaps?


Side buttons on both sides, but only one side can be used at once. You can choose what side is active.

By the way, in the FK they changed all the switches to Huano.

I think that is a Zowie keyboard.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> With the Zowie fk mouse you have aswell on both sides side buttons, can u disable them on one side?
> or is the buttons well placed so you not accedently press them.
> 
> Mousefan , is that a topre keyboard with doubleshot keycaps?


You can only activate one Side of the Sidebuttons, either for the Lefthandmode or Righthandmode, so that should answer your Question. If you activate the righthand Mode for example, which is the defaultmode, the right Sidebuttons are disabled and only the left you use as a Righty are activated. That's how it works. And it's so easy to setup. That's what makes the Zowie Mice so Lan-attractive. A few Companies making good FPS Mice, but Zowie makes them esports-competition-oriented to the fullest. That'y why they are the best in that plug and play clean performing Mice Sector with high Build Quality.









Those Keycaps are regular wasd Keycaps from the black Celeritas, because I had a black one and now this blue-white as you see. So nothing special.









greetings Guys and I am sure you enjoy this Mouse as I do.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Oh that's pretty reasonable actually. Usually shipping from Germany is like 15 euroes..
> 
> I was originally going to wait for the BST mouse, but its taking too long. I just hope this mouse isn't to small for my 19cm hands


It isn't cause mine are 21 cm long (from the palmedge to the middlefinger) and I could even palm this Mouse relaxed with the right Grip, but I prefer to almost claw it.

edit:

Here is a short Expllanation about the Dev-Process from neo.
Just for those who are interested in. Cause FK stands for "Filip Kubski" if you don't know a.k.a "Neo" the CS 1.6 Legend.

http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=esports&d=comments&id=12567


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Side buttons on both sides, but only one side can be used at once. You can choose what side is active.
> 
> By the way, in the FK they changed all the switches to Huano.


Nope. Side buttons are still made by HC.

FK was too narrow for me ^^ I need a Xai sized ambidextrous mouse.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Nope. Side buttons are still made by HC.
> 
> FK was too narrow for me ^^ I need a Xai sized ambidextrous mouse.


Yeah Shape's a matter of taste. Personally I think the FK has the right width to grap it nicely between your thumb and Ringfinger. The Xai has more width but isn't more comfortable for me personally.

And Height and length, the whole Shape-Construction of the FK are Xai-like you know. Those 5mm width really don't make that big of a difference. And I know those Mice from SS. I got a SS Raw Frost Blue, Fnatic,Xai and SS regular. All are middclass compared to the FK because of the Sensor and buildquality is maybe a Tastething, but personally I ever was totally satisfied with the Zowie-Quality. The only Sensei that really convinced me in Terms of Builquality was the Fnatic.

But Zowie Mice, no matter if I tried a EC1 evo, AM or now the FK were great quality-wise. Only the Mainbuttonconstruction of the AM couldn't convince you really and the Shape was a dealbraker also if I look back and would be asked now with the FK-Try. Cause grabbing the AM and a Intelli 1.1 is a huge Difference, even it was meant as a Alternative to the old Legend with a slightly similar Shape.

edit: ok even at my pick you see it's a lil bit of a Difference in height also, compared to the SenSei.

However, you know what you mean Skylit and got your Preferences and so it should be and stay. XD

Iam pretty sure many will love that FK Baby. I got a excellent control with not so small hands as you know now and so should you have.

Just played again. Headshots flying like Birds. ^^


----------



## popups

Oh Filip...

You know that 490 step and lens is downgrading your performance. At least you are using that single color mouse pad again. You are learning...

To bad about the Kingsis software and hardware is taking away so much from the FK. Since its CS:GO you can use the "1150" or "2300" steps.


Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Nope. Side buttons are still made by HC.
> 
> FK was too narrow for me ^^ I need a Xai sized ambidextrous mouse.






I would take a Sensei sized FK.

I thought this logo was Huano's?




Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> Yeah Shape's a matter of taste. Personally I think the FK has the right width to grap it nicely between your thumb and Ringfinger. The Xai has more width but isn't more comfortable for me personally.
> 
> And Height and length, the whole Shape-Construction of the FK are Xai-like you know. Those 5mm width really don't make that big of a difference.






5mm makes a world of difference. If the FK/AM was 4mm wider everywhere, but the height, it would be very nice. In terms of total height, maybe 39mm or so.

That would allow my hand to lift the mouse while it is relaxed. With thinner mice I have tense my hand to lift it. Since I play for long stretches at a time and lift the mouse a lot, my hand is not very happy.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Nope. Side buttons are still made by HC.
> 
> FK was too narrow for me ^^ I need a Xai sized ambidextrous mouse.


I agree, but I think it's a mixture of the thinness, curvature of the top (from front to back) and the lack of spring on the buttons is what I dislike about it. It's the reason I still use my sensei ha.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> I thought this logo was Huano's?


Logo is teng fei electronics. Basically Huano, though that's weird. Might be a separate few batches^^


----------



## mousefan

Yeah it's Preference ofcourse. Those are the Debates you can honestly start with every Mouse, but I am not here to talk your Thoughts about the FK good.

I can only say, I would never give this Baby up and turn back to a Sensei under those Conditions. The Laser alone is a Dealbraker for every serious CS Player and everything else from the Switchfeeling, what never really convinced me with my Sensei by the way, and a few mm's more width and height here are a matter of taste.

I am doing really good with the FK. So good that I have nothing to criticize at all for my needs as a CSGO Player. It does exactly what it should and doesn't stand in the way of my abilities and that's what a Mouse should.

I got a full and precise control, while aiming, tapping, spraying and bursting and zooming with one Sidebutton. There is nothing more I need. Ofcourse there are always some Mice to look out for, but the FK is strong, a really strong competitive Mouse.

You know I could easily control a ambidextrous one with big possible Logitech G400 Dimensions too, but it's also not a Problem to control the FK with my average big Hand. As a lefty you learned how to arrange with the few Possibilities in Terms of Mice over the Years anyway and I tried alot. You Righties can have totally different Claims anyway, cause the Market allows you to do.

And I know how to play a bit with the right hand, cause I really tried it a few Times with my EC1 evo and G400. Those Mice are excellent.


----------



## mousefan

I mean look at a Guy as Forest from NIP Guys. He is known as one of the best Players in the world and sometimes even called THE best and plays with a Kinzu V2 pro like a monster, what I just saw this weekend cause they played the ESEA Lan 13 Finals in Dallas. I am not guessing it, I know it cause I saw him controling this Mouse on his Table. And Forest is really not a small Guy with childish hands. He is some of the bigger Guys under those esports fnatics and Nerds. ^^

What I wanna say with that is simply, that you can almost adapt to anything if you have the abilities and train hard like those CS Nerds doing in a hardcore-way. And a Kinzu is really small as you know.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You know that 490 step and lens is downgrading your performance..


How exactly? I hear it causes some lag, what else is there?

I wonder, is there software that somehow allows you to tweak the Windows mouse sensitivity without screwing up the performance, because 1150 are too much for me in Windows and the mouse sense in Windows options is known to be not advised to tweak with. In games I can compensate with mouse sensitivity, although many games have way to high sense which is even too high on the lowest setting for me.

Of course, in games I could switch the dpi, but I hate to do that, especially with the button being under the mouse (why couldn't hey make it behind the wheel?), so if there's a way to change mouse sense for Win only without affecting games, that would be good.

By the way. I wonder, if the custom Zowie lense is so bad, can't you put something in front of it (like a second lense) to counter the effect?


----------



## popups

What games do you play?

In CS you couldn't use below 1. In CS:GO you can use below one. In 1.6 I used the "450" step because the "1150" was to high for me. Also in 1.6 I use 800x600 resolution so I cannot use other steps.

Far as I was aware, Neo was in the same situation. I think he still uses the "450" step @ 500Hz and 1.7 sensitivity. Since he is playing CS:GO he can use the 1225 step and change his sensitivity.

About the lens, the filter they have on it decreases the compatibility/performance and the way the light is used does the same.

The "450" step has high latency and seems a little inaccurate. Also the malfunction speed is lower on that step. When you are using a lower sensitivity changing directions (targets) feels very unresponsive. The mouse feels like it is holding you back from the amazing things a high level player is capable of.


----------



## Makav3li

My only problem with the FK right now is that the mouse feet are so thing that the middle is rubbing in spots on my Func XL pad. I didn't have this problem with the AM, even when it was worn in. Is anyone else noticing this on hard pads? I think I have to double up with the replacement feet or buy new off brand feet.


----------



## popups

I noticed some scrapping on the EC and the AM. Much more on the AM than the EC.

They couldn't really use that thick of feet because of their lens/LOD. Depending on your mouse pad you may be able to use thicker feet. Some mouse pads do not allow this because they stop tracking. On the red Hien I was using I could add more feet and would be fine. On the black cloth I was using before I could not do that.


----------



## Vikhr

With my EC1 evo I was able to get away with stacking the extra feet that came with it to alleviate the scraping problem, I currently have 3.0 hyperglides on my EC1 which work fine on all of my mouse pads that include both the Speed/Control Goliathus, Puretrak Talent, Steelseries Qck+, and G-TF Speed.

I honestly found that the scraping on the EC1 was much worse than my AM, it was really bad on the Goliathus Control which actually felt quite smooth with the AM. w/e, probably going to end up switching back to either my 3.0 or wmo as I've run into a LOD jitter bug on both 1150 and 2300 dpi which makes those steps completely unusable for me.


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> My only problem with the FK right now is that the mouse feet are so thing that the middle is rubbing in spots on my Func XL pad. I didn't have this problem with the AM, even when it was worn in. Is anyone else noticing this on hard pads? I think I have to double up with the replacement feet or buy new off brand feet.


I'd wager that the scraping is due to the func pad being curved, and not a problem with the mouse. Do you have another hard pad to test on? I have a steelseries SX which is more or less perfectly flat, and it doesn't happen at all with that one.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> You can only activate one Side of the Sidebuttons, either for the Lefthandmode or Righthandmode, so that should answer your Question. If you activate the righthand Mode for example, which is the defaultmode, the right Sidebuttons are disabled and only the left you use as a Righty are activated. That's how it works. And it's so easy to setup. That's what makes the Zowie Mice so Lan-attractive. A few Companies making good FPS Mice, but Zowie makes them esports-competition-oriented to the fullest. That'y why they are the best in that plug and play clean performing Mice Sector with high Build Quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those Keycaps are regular wasd Keycaps from the black Celeritas, because I had a black one and now this blue-white as you see. So nothing special.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greetings Guys and I am sure you enjoy this Mouse as I do.


Why couldnt they make it enabled on both sides?


----------



## pruik6

Thanks popups & mousefan for answering the question.
I just buy the Zowie FK and if not like'ing it i return it







. Before i always keep it at home ,but i have allready over 25 mouse.
Im only a bit scared of the ultra low LOD, because i normally not like the stock feet and if the replacement feet is to thick it can maybe f*ck up the tracking.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> In CS you couldn't use below 1. In CS:GO you can use below one. In 1.6 I used the "450" step because the "1150" was to high for me. Also in 1.6 I use 800x600 resolution so I cannot use other steps.
> 
> Far as I was aware, Neo was in the same situation. I think he still uses the "450" step @ 500Hz and 1.7 sensitivity. Since he is playing CS:GO he can use the 1225 step and change his sensitivity.
> 
> About the lens, the filter they have on it decreases the compatibility/performance and the way the light is used does the same.
> 
> The "450" step has high latency and seems a little inaccurate. Also the malfunction speed is lower on that step. When you are using a lower sensitivity changing directions (targets) feels very unresponsive. The mouse feels like it is holding you back from the amazing things a high level player is capable of.


Makes sense. I guess I'll keep using 450 in Windows and games where I can't go lower with sensitivity, but adjust sense accordingly in games where 1150 can be used.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Why couldnt they make it [side buttons] enabled on both sides?


Yeah. I can access the front sidebutton on the other side with the ring finger without problems and just yesterday thought about how I'd liked to use some less critical functions with this for comfort sake, to have less mapped keys on the keyboard.

That's the good thing, but also the problem with Zowie; it is a niche mouse focusing on those competitive gamers who play "simple minded" games which do not even require sidebuttons if you really think about that.
I play more complex games where you need to use two additional movement modes, can adjust stances and use all sorts of functions with weapons or physical abilities. Technically Zowie mice are not for me, which is also a sad fact that I seem not to be able to find another proper mouse to fill the gap. I guess I need to be another guy who wants to make his own mouse, lol, sad.


----------



## ich1ban

Does anyone else notice that the sensitivity is higher on this compared to the EC2 eVo?

Supposedly they share the same sensor and same 450dpi, however if you got the 2 and swiped it from left->right on the pad, the FK travels a bit further.

Maybe it is due to the sensor height? No idea, but many times, it's definitely higher.


----------



## popups

I opened up the Huano switches and I modified them. I really trashed mouse 2 for the sake of education. I need to swap the spring out or buy some Omrons now.

At first I took the spring off to check the contacts and to attempt to bend the post. After I bent the post a variety of degrees, I tried the same with the spring. I made it so light it was funny. I tried to get it back to something similar, but the spring is rather weak. Took me way to long trying to put the spring back in.

After learning how things are inside the Huano switches, I did the same to the mouse 1 switch. I didn't have to remove the spring to bend the post, so I didn't. I bent the post slightly to take off some of that snap and delay. Doing this changed the sound and amount of clicks I can do. Before I would average 66 clicks in 10 seconds or about 6-7 a second using mouse 1. Now I can do about 9-10 in a second and in the 70s per 10 seconds. If my finger didn't get tired I could obviously click a lot more.

The Huanos do not seem any better or worse than the Chinese Omrons. However, when you compare them to the Japanese D2F-01 switches they are obviously way behind in everything.

I think I will change all my mice to the D2F-01s and mod them like I did with the Huanos. Using the 150gr switches will allow me to do a lot more to them. In my opinion a switch with a two piece design, higher return force, higher operating force and small travel, will be the "best" switch. After modding the D2F-01s that should get me everything I want.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Does anyone else notice that the sensitivity is higher on this compared to the EC2 eVo?
> 
> Supposedly they share the same sensor and same 450dpi, however if you got the 2 and swiped it from left->right on the pad, the FK travels a bit further.
> 
> Maybe it is due to the sensor height? No idea, but many times, it's definitely higher.






Yes the AM/FK has higher CPI than the EC1/2 Evo. Last time I checked the EC had 470 and the AM had 490. I would have to take the EC out of the box to make certain, but I don't feel like it.


----------



## ich1ban

Yeh it's definitely higher, feels the same sens as my AM.

Do you know why it's higher? is it because of the lens? or height of the sensor? It's supposed to have the same sensor isn't it? the eVo version and the FK/AM


----------



## popups

Could be a few things. I think it is the sensor height though.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yes the AM/FK has higher CPI than the EC1/2 Evo. Last time I checked the EC had 470 and the AM had 490. I would have to take the EC out of the box to make certain, but I don't feel like it.


Yeah, my EC is about 470. Weird difference.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viowastaken*
> 
> I'd wager that the scraping is due to the func pad being curved, and not a problem with the mouse. Do you have another hard pad to test on? I have a steelseries SX which is more or less perfectly flat, and it doesn't happen at all with that one.


I would agree that's possible. But I also have an AM and several other gaming mice that don't have this problem on the same pad in the same location.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What games do you play?
> 
> In CS you couldn't use below 1. In CS:GO you can use below one. In 1.6 I used the "450" step because the "1150" was to high for me. Also in 1.6 I use 800x600 resolution so I cannot use other steps.
> 
> Far as I was aware, Neo was in the same situation. I think he still uses the "450" step @ 500Hz and 1.7 sensitivity. Since he is playing CS:GO he can use the 1225 step and change his sensitivity.
> 
> About the lens, the filter they have on it decreases the compatibility/performance and the way the light is used does the same.
> 
> The "450" step has high latency and seems a little inaccurate. Also the malfunction speed is lower on that step. When you are using a lower sensitivity changing directions (targets) feels very unresponsive. The mouse feels like it is holding you back from the amazing things a high level player is capable of.


I use the 450 step and don't notice any input lag. I haven't tried the other steps so I haven't compared it to those so maybe I'm used to it, but I can't notice the latency you speak of.


----------



## test user

@popups; You sure about the lag?


----------



## theo87

Has anyone noticed inability to make straight horizontal line with fast wrist move? I don't wanna throw the meat before I'm 100% certain as I need few other people to try out my FK, but it looks like my mouse can be flawed.



This is what I get making fast wrist moves. Never had such problem with any other even cheap 1 euro mice. Waits to be 100% confirmed, don't take it as a fact unless I will make test on few of my friends.


----------



## Makav3li

All mice are like that. It's your wrist movement.


----------



## theo87

I can make nearly perfect lines with both DA and G400. It can be restricted to my hand and shape of FK however. It is quite weird to me anyway.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> I can make nearly perfect lines with both DA and G400. It can be restricted to my hand and shape of FK however. It is quite weird to me anyway.


Some mice have prediction and others not. Prediction is when you make a horizontal move and the drift is minimal, than the mouse auto corrects the line and it is drawn straight, while if there's no prediction, than the line you draw is unperfect, the way it would be if you would draw a horizontal line with a pen on paper.
Your FK has no prediction. If I'm correct, the early batch of G400's had prediction, which was removed in later batches, so you may have an early G400. Not sure about DA, but my Diamondback 3G has also prediction and I draw straight lines with it, while my AM has no prediction and lines are never that straight.


----------



## theo87

My G400 doesn't have prediction, my DA 3.5G has no drift control. Your argument is invalid.

If someone says it's normal than I guess it might be the way I hold this mouse or something. It's not natural for me anyway to have movement like this. Now I'm 100% sure I have to sell this mouse


----------



## resis

Hmm, get all three mice on your desk and draw three lines with similar dpi settings and show us.


----------



## theo87

Quick test I've done on low DPI.

G400 400DPI



DA 3.5G 450 DPI



FK 450 DPI



I can do the test on every DPI, but FK behaves exacly the same on all 3 steps. I must have some werid alien hand


----------



## test user

You aren't holding it straight.


----------



## theo87

After 15 minutes of testing, I have to say there is no way I can make straight horizontal line while I move FK when it lays perfectly vertical. The only way I can make horizontal movements is to place like this "\" than claw it that way and move my wrist. There is no way in the world I can make it move it correctly while palming it, unless I grab it in completely wrong way which feels awkward. Someone has to try this out.


----------



## test user

What's so confusing about than and then, I've seen it over 9000 times today


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> The Huanos do not seem any better or worse than the Chinese Omrons. However, when you compare them to the Japanese D2F-01 switches they are obviously way behind in everything.
> 
> I think I will change all my mice to the D2F-01s and mod them like I did with the Huanos. Using the 150gr switches will allow me to do a lot more to them. In my opinion a switch with a two piece design, higher return force, higher operating force and small travel, will be the "best" switch. After modding the D2F-01s that should get me everything I want.


75g D2F and D2FC are nearly identical when it comes to basic layout/operation.

Please don't tell me you're serious about 150g switches. You're talking bout a snap action mechanical spring on steroids.


----------



## Makav3li

So, seeing as I have this bottom rubbing issue on my hard pad with the FK. Should I stick the replacement feet over the stock feet or are there a thicker aftermarket version I should buy?


----------



## joshvr

There are speedy skatez (http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=product&p=7) which are listed at 0.6mm, stock are around 0.4mm-0.45mm. But I found that the glide wasn't very smooth with the speedy skatez on my qck, so I tried some spare DA hyperglide (around 0.65mm) which seems to work very well (just annoying to put on). I also think that one pair of zowie feet isn't enough if you don't have an exactly flat desk or mouse pad, doesn't have much room for error.


----------



## detto87

I KINDA have the same problem as inox, noticing it only in-game in CS:GO though.

On realtively quick swipes and turns, I am always left wondering why my view went down when swiping left or up when swiping right.
This situation popped up in my head again right as I saw that picture of the drawn line inox posted.

I don't think it is the way I'm holding the mouse as the important factor is how I swipe it (with forearm mostly or just the wrist, makes a difference).
I also noticed that with the AM when I was testing the max speed and my cm/360 in Quake Live.
Basically, I put the mouse in up-left or down-left corner of the mousepad and swiped it to the right repeatedly, swiping faster every time.
The AM behaved the same way in going up when swiping right.

I always had this in the back of my head and kinda thought 'eh, that's probalby just me', but seeing that others have this problem too I might think it is a faulty sensor after all?


----------



## joshvr

I just tried what inox is talking about with the FK and I think that happens because some wrist movement happens when you swipe quickly when palming it. I held my wrist straight and I got don't get that slanting that you are observing. Try and do a natural swipe for a straight line, then look at your wrist position and angle of the mouse to a straight vertical line, if it's not parallel to a vertical line then that's where the slanting is caused. Try and report back your results







.

A point to note is the other mice you are testing are ergonomic and are probably easier for you to limit the wrist movement compared to ambidextrous.


----------



## resis

inox, try different grips, palm, claw, finger tip. I don't seem to have that problem with my AM.


----------



## Makav3li

I put the replacement set of skates over the stock skates and that solved my rubbing issue. The mouse still tracks fine. LOD is really low, but I used the AM and now FK because I like that, so not an issue. Looks like they substantially lowered the thickness of the skates versus the AM.

Apparently I'm not the only one who had this issue with the Func Pad and Zowie FK:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1369780/zowie-fk-gaming-mouse-review-by-takasta/30#post_19525346

As for the horizontal line issue. I pulled up paint and was able to draw them without any issues. Either you're not dragging in a straight line or there is something wrong with your mouse. I would try a more controlled experiment.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comments



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I use the 450 step and don't notice any input lag. I haven't tried the other steps so I haven't compared it to those so maybe I'm used to it, but I can't notice the latency you speak of.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> @popups; You sure about the lag?





Yeah, I am rather sure, as sure as an end user could be.

Try the other steps on the mouse and you will more likely notice the difference. At first I thought the feeling was not floaty in comparison to the other steps, but after using them all, I came to the conclusion that the "450" is very artificial/slow.

I do play at a lower sensitivity. The "450" step, 1.25 sensitivity, 0.22 yaw and pitch. I also only use 1000Hz now with the "450" step because I don't want the added feel of latency.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 75g D2F and D2FC are nearly identical when it comes to basic layout/operation.
> 
> Please don't tell me you're serious about 150g switches. You're talking bout a snap action mechanical spring on steroids.





Well after you remove some travel I think the operating force will be lowered. The "pivot" point will change. If not then I can just increase the bend on the spring to lower it. I wouldn't use the 150gr on side buttons.

After messing with the Huanos I made one switch way to light. Feels like a well used Omron now.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Has anyone noticed inability to make straight horizontal line with fast wrist move? I don't wanna throw the meat before I'm 100% certain as I need few other people to try out my FK, but it looks like my mouse can be flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I get making fast wrist moves. Never had such problem with any other even cheap 1 euro mice. Waits to be 100% confirmed, don't take it as a fact unless I will make test on few of my friends.





There is nothing wrong with the mouse. Not to say there isn't anything wrong with your particular one. I would say it is your grip.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1316361/razer-deathadder-4g/100_20#post_18562853


----------



## joshvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I put the replacement set of skates over the stock skates and that solved my rubbing issue. The mouse still tracks fine. LOD is really low, but I used the AM and now FK because I like that, so not an issue. Looks like they substantially lowered the thickness of the skates versus the AM.


Strange, I thought they would have the same stock feet seeing as there is no reason to change it. Because I had the same issue with both the AM and FK, are you sure you didn't notice rubbing on the AM because it has a much smoother bottom surface than the FK, so it might be harder to detect or doesn't cause as much drag.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I use the 450 step and don't notice any input lag. I haven't tried the other steps so I haven't compared it to those so maybe I'm used to it, but I can't notice the latency you speak of.


A lot of mice have input lag with specific game due to program priority. Some go away after a while, maybe the lag he's experiencing isn't FK related.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Makes sense. I guess I'll keep using 450 in Windows and games where I can't go lower with sensitivity, but adjust sense accordingly in games where 1150 can be used.
> Yeah. I can access the front sidebutton on the other side with the ring finger without problems and just yesterday thought about how I'd liked to use some less critical functions with this for comfort sake, to have less mapped keys on the keyboard.
> 
> That's the good thing, but also the problem with Zowie; it is a niche mouse focusing on those competitive gamers who play "simple minded" games which do not even require sidebuttons if you really think about that.
> I play more complex games where you need to use two additional movement modes, can adjust stances and use all sorts of functions with weapons or physical abilities. Technically Zowie mice are not for me, which is also a sad fact that I seem not to be able to find another proper mouse to fill the gap. I guess I need to be another guy who wants to make his own mouse, lol, sad.


I use those side buttons as well, one on the ring finger is especially important as it's easily trained as fast response key. Can't live without it anymore


----------



## boogdud

For me I use Zowie mice because they feel solid, they track perfectly and they just work. No crap software, no nonsense. Do I wish I had more buttons? Yes. Do I wish they had different dpi steps? Yes. But personally, they have the best shape/size in the business with the EC2 and the FK and there's nothing else that comes close enough to switch to.


----------



## CattleCorn

I received my Zowie FK today. It's perfect! Finally something that fits my small hands and palm (ish) grip. I haven't gotten to plug it in yet (b/c I'm still at work) but the feel is great.


----------



## resis

Received my FK as well.

Shape is great. I'm actually not sure if I like it more than AM shape, but perhaps I just need to get used to it.

Switches seem still too stiff, but a little lighter than AM, they feel better though, but sound a but _cheaper_. Well, I didn't expect Omron's, did I?

The second right side button sounds HORRENDOUS, like an ugly plastic spring, fortunately I'm not going to use it, the left side buttons are fine. Side buttons feel lighter also, which is good, but I wished they were more pronounced and a little larger. The AM side buttons have a bit better design, they are easier to find/feel, much more clearer to operate.
Edit: Actually, all the side buttons sound horrendous, lol.

Scroll wheel is definitely much better. Lighter to move, lighter to click. It seems to be of lighter weight, because the AM wheel is bouncing left and right if you shake the mouse and you really feel some weight shifting with it and of course the noise coming off it. The FK has the wheel sitting steady, not moving at all (unless you push it left and right with the finger, of course, even then it moves only slightly) and there are no sounds from internal parts if you shake it. Well there is a bit of wheel shake and sound, but only if you shake it really really hard, the way you never do even during fastest swipes. Build quality seems improved, but perhaps I was just unlucky with my AM and more lucky with FK. Can't say for sure.

The coating is actually more slippery for me, I need to rub my fingers a bit to have some more moist to them, which was never necessary with my AM. I could perfectly grip the AM with utmost dry hands (I have super dry hands). Still coating is good and the \_/ sides help to it.

The feet are extremely thin and the non-glossy bottom side of the mouse doesn't help either. That's a bit of a screw up on Zowie's side in my opinion, but fortunately Zowie is cool enough to ship a second pair of skates, which fit seamlessly on top of the existing ones and I don't feel this bump from below when moving the mouse. I think the skates still need to "run in" to have a better glide. My 15 month old AM skates still glide excellently and are thicker also (they're better).

The cord seems actually less soft than AM, but still within the tolerance. No problem.

Sensor. I feel like it is more precise actually. Writing this text I always do mistakes and need to put that tiny cursor between the tiny letters to correct things. With the AM I very often put the cursor between the wrong letters, with the FK it feels more lighter and precise. Not sure, perhaps the AM feet aren't gliding with tiny movements well enough already, or it is the older SROM version of the AM, but sofar the FK feels much more responsive and refreshing.

Basically some things worsened with the FK, but most got improved, by the first glance that is. Gonna test it some more, but the first impression is very good. The button clicks sound cheap though, lol.


----------



## STRON

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Zowie FK with new feet installed from gamejava. I thought they would be thicker than I wanted, but my mouse was still dragging on my hard pad so I installed another set on top of the first ones.
> Its really nice to say the least.
> 
> I know this is a double post but I accidentally posted this on takastas review thread.


I have the same "dragging/rubbing/scratching" issue on my Artisan Hayate. My AM scrathes the Hayate.

I ordered 2X0.6mm Speedy Skatez - do you think it'll fix my scratching issue?


----------



## Makav3li

I did like the previous poster and installed the replacement set of skates on top of the OEM skates. That fixed the rubbing issue for me. The FK skates are either thinner than the AM or the recessed area is deeper. Something is different. The mouse still tracks fine with the feet doubled up.


----------



## shedokan

I personally couldn't stand the switches on the AM, I was sure I got a faulty mouse at first cause it felt so bad compare to the EC lol.

DA 2013 and never look back


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I personally couldn't stand the switches on the AM, I was sure I got a faulty mouse at first cause it felt so bad compare to the EC lol.
> 
> DA 2013 and never look back


That's a little over the top, but to each his own. Owning both, the switches on the FK are lighter than the AM. More comparable to Omrons.


----------



## STRON

Than
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I did like the previous poster and installed the replacement set of skates on top of the OEM skates. That fixed the rubbing issue for me. The FK skates are either thinner than the AM or the recessed area is deeper. Something is different. The mouse still tracks fine with the feet doubled up.


Thanks! Have a good weekend.


----------



## resis

FK switches are lighter, but still don't feel as good as omrons in my opinion.

Another thing I like about FK is that the dpi button is easier to press. On my AM it is harder to press, I either need to use the other hand or accidentally hit buttons in the process and it generally takes a bit longer, because it is so damn uncomfortable with one hand.
With the FK, even if you are required to turn the mouse around, which is bad enough, you can change dpi really quick and one handed.


----------



## meih

Could Huano's be easily replaced with D2F-01F's or D2FC-F-7N's on this mouse, i.e. is just a solder job or is the switch taller/shorter than the Huano switches?


----------



## popups

They say it is a direct solder replacement.

Maybe before you swap the switches you can modify them by decreasing the travel. See if that makes you happy with them... If you mess up or don't like it you have new switches to use.


----------



## a_ak57

So has anyone contacted Newegg or Amazon about when they'll be stocking the FK? I'm considering just buying an IMO 1.1 since I play at low sensitivity anyway, and some of the posts in here make me wary about the 450 DPI setting.


----------



## popups

What is low sensitivity to you?

I cannot really use an Intellimouse with my low sensitivity. I need either a Razer or Zowie. My sensitivity is 1.2-1.3, with 0.022 yaw and pitch, using ~490 CPI. About 16 inches for a 180.

If you play on a higher sensitivity the Intellimouse is still a good choice. Just boost your polling rate on the USB port.

The "450" step is usable and will likely not bother 98% of the populace.


----------



## a_ak57

I usually play around 36" per 360. I guess I was mistaken in thinking the IMO 1.1 would be good for low sens. Some quick research makes it seem like it doesn't do well with higher mouse speed.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I usually play around 36" per 360. I guess I was mistaken in thinking the IMO 1.1 would be good for low sens. Some quick research makes it seem like it doesn't do well with higher mouse speed.


18" for 180, you gotta be kidding me, hehe. You like to iron that laundry of yours, don't you?









So the 450dpi of Zowie are actually really more like 490dpi? I mean like exactly? I always felt 500dpi was awesome and feels best in Windows, Recon's 800dpi are too fast for Windows for me.
Shame there is no optical sensor where you just set your damned dpi as you wish, without interpolation and performance hits. I guess laser sensors can do that, which why I'm looking at lasers a bit right now, but I notice and hate acceleration and such.
Bst says you'll be able to set dpi in 50 steps, from 400 till I don't know. Wonder if it works, because lowering sensitivity in Diamondback and Recon software makes cursor floaty.

Regardign the FK. So I played with it a bit. I like the shape, but I feel like it is a bit too low. I need to curl the ring finger and pinkie too much to not push them into the pad, which is a bit crampy. With the AM I just put the hand on it and it rests nicely.
Coating is too slippery for me (EC eVo's were too, unlike AM's coating which is super grippy for me). So I put some black electronic tape on the sides and grip improved quite a bit. I love the lighter switches and wheel, but not too light like many Omron mice. The switches feel a bit less premium, but perform quite good. A good balance between super light omrons and super stiff AM huanos.
Don't need to say much about the sensor I guess.


----------



## popups

It is about 485-508 CPI. Depends on particular mouse and surface. It pretty far from 450.

I measured it once and it was about 508. I opened the mouse and took the PCB out to do something unrelated, I measured it after -- it was 490. Likely because of the varying torque to the screws.


----------



## Nilizum

Red = 477
Purple = 1187
Blue = 2385

...Seems like they didn't bother even measuring their dpi. Razer Deathadder 2013 actually managed to get the dpi perfectly.


----------



## Audio

Anyone know a good online retailer to buy this from in NA? i've been looking around but i haven't found much of anything.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Audio*
> 
> Anyone know a good online retailer to buy this from in NA? i've been looking around but i haven't found much of anything.


It was available on Esea.net


----------



## STRON

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=497&t=3305291

Cool. Some guy comparing different mice to the FK.


----------



## popups

You can see just how thin the FK is! The AM's thinnest area for your finger is 58mm, the FK is thinner than that!

I just don't get it... Zowie hears complaints of the AM being to thin, they make a new mold, but they make it thinner in an important area. They should just do what they have done with the EC -- make two sizes of the FK design. They could even discontinue the AM at that point.

How many people here truly want a very thin mouse?

At least Steel Series offers 3 sizes of their design.


----------



## jayfkay

ec1 evo still remains as their best FPS mouse


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can see just how thin the FK is! The AM's thinnest area for your finger is 58mm, the FK is thinner than that!
> 
> I just don't get it... Zowie hears complaints of the AM being to thin, they make a new mold, but they make it thinner in an important area. They should just do what they have done with the EC -- make two sizes of the FK design. They could even discontinue the AM at that point.
> 
> How many people here truly want a very thin mouse?
> 
> At least Steel Series offers 3 sizes of their design.


I thought the same. I love 'em thin, but I actually thought they should have kept the base and widened the top. Problem I am having with right now is that the FK is too low. I thought it would be about AM height and curved, but right now it is so flat it almost forces me into finger tip, or if I claw it, fingers feel a bit too stressed.

I like the FK in general, even have little problem with the thinness, but disappointed by the height. I lay down my hand on the AM relaxed and it feels good without ever stressing. They should have kept AM shape and merely concaved the sides for better grip (like SteelSeries mice), that's all that people were asking for.

Oh well. The search continues. I tried the SS Kana in a store, that's the shape. Kinda liking the CM Recon a bit, gettin' used to it more slowly.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can see just how thin the FK is! The AM's thinnest area for your finger is 58mm, the FK is thinner than that!
> 
> I just don't get it... Zowie hears complaints of the AM being to thin, they make a new mold, but they make it thinner in an important area. They should just do what they have done with the EC -- make two sizes of the FK design. They could even discontinue the AM at that point.
> 
> How many people here truly want a very thin mouse?
> 
> At least Steel Series offers 3 sizes of their design.


I agree, the AM cramped my hand because it was too thin; I can image what the fk would do to it.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I thought the same. I love 'em thin, but I actually thought they should have kept the base and widened the top. Problem I am having with right now is that the FK is too low. I thought it would be about AM height and curved, but right now it is so flat it almost forces me into finger tip, or if I claw it, fingers feel a bit too stressed.
> 
> I like the FK in general, even have little problem with the thinness, but disappointed by the height. I lay down my hand on the AM relaxed and it feels good without ever stressing. They should have kept AM shape and merely concaved the sides for better grip (like SteelSeries mice), that's all that people were asking for.
> 
> Oh well. The search continues. I tried the SS Kana in a store, that's the shape. Kinda liking the CM Recon a bit, gettin' used to it more slowly.


Mirrors my thoughts exactly. It's the flatness that gets to you, makes it feel cramped.
What's funnier is, I've even started using the kana again, but also waiting on the cafe edition which has a rubber cable.


----------



## Nilizum

That "Flatness" of the mouse is what makes it more precise. Holding a pencil lower = more precision than holding it higher.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> That "Flatness" of the mouse is what makes it more precise. Holding a pencil lower = more precision than holding it higher.


Not sure about that analogy. Fingers would grasp the mouse on the sides in virtually the same height on most mice. Most fine aiming is done with arm and wrist, so wrist is always on the mousepad. If you were to hold a pencil higher, you would not have as much wrist influence, so no point of stability; less control. ALL movement of a pencil is done with the fingers and some wrist, with the wrist arm flush on the surface for stability. Having a higher mouse would only mean more space for the palm.


----------



## resis

FK feels like it moved a step closer to a fingertip mouse, closer to Roccat Lua or Kinzu. I wished it remained among AM and Kana as an universal claw/palm/fingertip mouse.

It's still awesome, but AM and Kana are better shapes in my opinion.


----------



## Skylit

Not a fan of the design, but I don't mind Kana sized.

AM is a little narrow for me. Would prefer Larger IO1.1 dimensions


----------



## Jalal

IO1.1 kinda huge. By the way got it at hand but have issues with it. So i'm searching for a new mouse. WMO shape, no TTC switches. Is the Sensei Raw easier to handle than the IO1.1? does it take considerable less effort to pick up? And most importantly, how is the palm support in comparison (Sensei seems flatter)? That is very interesting, although most of my life I used the finger tip grip because of the games played and sensivity i used, i noticed very clearly when i was using the G1 for example my aim becomes much better because of exactly this part of my palm stabilizing the aim. Also with my Azurues mini, I instinctively try to do that, and end up claw gripping it, still its to small, crampy.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Not a fan of the design, but I don't mind Kana sized.
> 
> AM is a little narrow for me. Would prefer Larger IO1.1 dimensions


I agree, the IO1.1 is the best ambidextrous mouse I've ever used. IO1.1 + a better sensor + a softer cable = PERFECTION


----------



## Skylit

I don't think anything will ever touch the early ST design used in intellimouse from a cursor precision aspect, though modern mice have the advantage of well coded data allocation via 3rd party component.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> IO1.1 kinda huge. By the way got it at hand but have issues with it. So i'm searching for a new mouse. WMO shape, no TTC switches. Is the Sensei Raw easier to handle than the IO1.1? does it take considerable less effort to pick up? And most importantly, how is the palm support in comparison (Sensei seems flatter)? That is very interesting, although most of my life I used the finger tip grip because of the games played and sensivity i used, i noticed very clearly when i was using the G1 for example my aim becomes much better because of exactly this part of my palm stabilizing the aim. Also with my Azurues mini, I instinctively try to do that, and end up claw gripping it, still its to small, crampy.


The Xai design is based on IO1.1, though inverted sides tampering out making it easier on some grips. Raw is based on the same mold.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> I agree, the IO1.1 is the best ambidextrous mouse I've ever used. IO1.1 + a better sensor + a softer cable = PERFECTION


I would say that kind of describes the AM.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I would say that kind of describes the AM.


Yeah I had the AM-FG but it was just too thin for me, it was giving my hand major cramps. Other than that it was really nice.


----------



## Jalal

Too bad I don't have the Xai anymore, wasnt playing the same games that time either hmm. Maybe i just get it. But i hate to buy things to eventually return them. Going simply to assume that compared to the 1.1 , the palm support is the same and that the Sensei RAW feels 10g lighter (although ~5g heavier on scale).

Else there's the Ninox, gotta wait. (with eventual PCB transfer). It's switches are also more promising.

My wish would be a WMO with sensory touch buttons. Just where?!


----------



## detto87

I also feel the same way, that after owning AM, FK, EC1/2, 518, Xai, ... that nothing felt as good as the IO1.1.


----------



## poros1ty

I currently use an Abyssus @ 1800 DPI, but I recently ordered this mouse. I use a white puretrak talent and I rarely if ever can get the Abyssus to malfunction at high speeds. I am using a fairly low sensitivity of 27 cm/360 and I tend to flick my mouse very fast for flick shots and quick turns. I am a bit worried about the malfunction speed of the FK, as the malfunction speed don't seem to be as high as the abyssus.

Is there an preferred mousepad to help increase the malfunction speed and what is the best DPI to use on this mouse?


----------



## popups

Use a solid color pad, no logos, stay away from glass and aluminum. I would suggest white, red or blue -- something lighter in color. I prefer to use red, but right now I am using a darker blue. Black or dark pads decrease frame rates.

The best CPI step to use is the "2300" at either 500Hz or 1000Hz. This step is native, seems to have higher malfunction speed and is actually more like ~2400 (mainly because of the lens it seems).


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Well I just received my FK, and I love it. Only dissapointment is the scroll wheel, the distance between 'ticks' is too much imo if that makes sense.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Only dissapointment is the scroll wheel, the distance between 'ticks' is too much imo if that makes sense.


Zowie wheels seem to be weak. I am using a CM Recon right now and the wheel is so much better. Shorter steps and far more pronounced and the wheel feels steady and responsive and the click is better. My AM wheel was even worse than FK.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Well I just received my FK, and I love it. Only dissapointment is the scroll wheel, the distance between 'ticks' is too much imo if that makes sense.








Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Zowie wheels seem to be weak. I am using a CM Recon right now and the wheel is so much better. Shorter steps and far more pronounced and the wheel feels steady and responsive and the click is better. My AM wheel was even worse than FK.






I like the fact that there is only 16 notches to the scroll wheel. This is very good for FPS games -- at least for players like myself. It definitely isn't great for web browsing, but this is a gaming oriented mouse. The reduced number of notches from the typical 24 reduces accidental actuation. As the 24 notched mechanicals wear out it becomes very easy to have unintentional scrolls.

The wheel has very large feedback unlike the 24 notch mechanicals. The switch for mouse 3 is also heavier, which stops any accidental actuation if you scroll firmly.

I don't see how the Zowie wheel is unresponsive or unsteady in the AM/FK.

The Zowie wheel is not ideally designed in terms of timing and smoothness. Maybe if they used a roller instead of a bearing, changed the geometry of the indents and (depending how it turns out) adding 1-4 notches.

At least they will last pretty much "forever"....


----------



## resis

I agree the 16 step isn't bad, but the steps on the AM and also FK, for me, aren't as snapy as with the Recon. With the Recon the wheel moves and suddenly stops (snaps in the position), while with the AM/FK it is kind of a bit mushier, it flows into stop (hard to explain). It's not that bad, probably just different and maybe caused by the reduced step. or rather by the built of wheel system, can't say, but the Recon, sofar, feels better.

If you say FK will last longer, than I take it as a point.


----------



## popups

_Ha ha ha... Incoming bad joke... Just teasing..._

The FK is the perfect size for small asian girls.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I agree the 16 step isn't bad, but the steps on the AM and also FK, for me, aren't as snapy as with the Recon. With the Recon the wheel moves and suddenly stops (snaps in the position), while with the AM/FK it is kind of a bit mushier, it flows into stop (hard to explain). It's not that bad, probably just different and maybe caused by the reduced step. or rather by the built of wheel system, can't say, but the Recon, sofar, feels better.
> 
> If you say FK will last longer, than I take it as a point.






That is because of the bearing they use to stop the scrolls. If you scroll slowly you will fell it. This is amplified when you have 16 notches, there is a lot of space between scrolls to notice it. This is why I think a type of roller will feel smoother, have less initial rolling resistance, would also reduce felt mid impacts when scrolling fast.



The reason the mechanical feels better is there isn't this large round hill to climb as you scroll and there isn't a small contact point from a bearing. I would take a 12-18 notch mechanical over the Kingsis/Zowie wheel. I would like to test a 12 notch ALPS to see if it would satisfy me.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _Ha ha ha... Incoming bad joke... Just teasing..._
> 
> The FK is the perfect size for small asian girls.


So is my... mouse sure..


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Sigh, I feel like this mouse is giving me Carpel tunnel syndrome. However I'm also writing a lot due to my finals so that might be the cause. Already threw my old mouse away though so I can't test the difference between mice. Hopefully its just due to extensive writing...









On a different note, I read that by holding in a mouse combination when plugging it in I can change the polling rate? Which buttons need to be pressed?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Sigh, I feel like this mouse is giving me Carpel tunnel syndrome. However I'm also writing a lot due to my finals so that might be the cause. Already threw my old mouse away though so I can't test the difference between mice. Hopefully its just due to extensive writing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a different note, I read that by holding in a mouse combination when plugging it in I can change the polling rate? Which buttons need to be pressed?


Check the box. I don't know at the moment, but the box tells you how.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Check the box. I don't know at the moment, but the box tells you how.


I already threw that away too









I hate keeping boxes for some reason, god forbid I ever need to RMA something...


----------



## popups

Button 4 = 1000 Hz (default)
Button 5 = 500 Hz
Buttons 4+5 = 125 Hz

Buttons 1+3 = Right-side buttons (for LEFT hand use)
Buttons 2+3 = Left-side buttons (for RIGHT hand use)


----------



## Jalal

Is this mouse well palm gripable? Compared to the WMO? (Got 7,5 inches hand lenght)

Edit: Nevermind. Must be too flat. Zowie says smaller hands could, guess they mean 7 inches long and less.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> Is this mouse well palm gripable? Compared to the WMO? (Got 7,5 inches hand lenght)
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. Must be too flat. Zowie says smaller hands could, guess they mean 7 inches long and less.


The AM and FK are vastly different than the Wheel Mouse Optical. The arch is not the same shape. You would be disappointed even if the dimensions were the same.

If you want an Wheel Mouse / Intellimouse shape go with the original Microsoft mice. Steel Series mice look close to the shape but are still much different.

If you want a WMO with 3090 performance wait to see what Ninox/BST does with his stuff.

BST PCB WMO


----------



## Jalal

I see, thanks. And yeah am waiting for that, but want something new inbetween.


----------



## SoFGR

so, putting it in layman's terms : WMO/IE 3.0/IMO 1.1 remain the best optical LED mice when it comes to cursor quality due to 9000fps and minimal prediction.

But there is only so much you can do with 400dpi so playing on a 20cm/360 sens will be definately look and feel a bit wonky no matter the screen resolution and/or player FOV, the sensor is also prone to negative accel once you go faster than 1.5m/s during a single swipe, so a regular 3090 mouse on a black mousepad and/or a zowie one on a red surface is a much better alternative overall, right ?


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> the sensor is also prone to negative accel once you go faster than 1.5m/s during a single swipe, so a regular 3090 mouse on a black mousepad and/or a zowie one on a red surface is a much better alternative overall, right ?


Pretty much, I guess. You'd have to wait for the Ninox mice if you want WMO/IMO shape, though


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> so, putting it in layman's terms : WMO/IE 3.0/IMO 1.1 remain the best optical LED mice when it comes to cursor quality due to 9000fps and minimal prediction.
> 
> But there is only so much you can do with 400dpi so playing on a 20cm/360 sens will be definately look and feel a bit wonky no matter the screen resolution and/or player FOV, the sensor is also prone to negative accel once you go faster than 1.5m/s during a single swipe, so a regular 3090 mouse on a black mousepad and/or a zowie one on a red surface is a much better alternative overall, right ?






Any 3090 sensor based mouse will likely feel better on a light colored pad. This is because the sensor's frame rate may reach the 6,469 maximum. If the mouse has a bright LED then it may reach the maximum frames on a dark surface.

A frame rate of 9,000 does sound nice. I wonder how much frames the new 2013 DeathAdder does.

The 3090 only goes down to 800 CPI natively, the Zowie has only 1800 native, anything below that will feel different (technically speaking). If you like to use below 800 and can live with low malfunction speed, the Microsoft mice are still some of the best for overall "feel". However, these days 800 CPI is usable in many games -- your sensitivity can be lower to compensate.

The lowest CPI I would use is 500, typically I would use 600-650, 1200 is the maximum for me.

It would be nice to have a high resolution sensor, with a frame rate of 9,000, that can poll at 1,000 Hz and has a malfunction speed of at least 4m/s. Preferably it would allow you to choose your own native steps. If it didn't, selectable steps of: 500, 750 (optional), 1000, 1250 (optional), 1500, 1750 (optional), 2000.

It is way over due for an update.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> Any 3090 sensor based mouse will likely feel better on a light colored pad. This is because the sensor's frame rate may reach the 6,469 maximum. If the mouse has a bright LED then it may reach the maximum frames on a dark surface.
> 
> A frame rate of 9,000 does sound nice. I wonder how much frames the new 2013 DeathAdder does.
> 
> The 3090 only goes down to 800 CPI natively, the Zowie has only 1800 native, anything below that will feel different (technically speaking). If you like to use below 800 and can live with low malfunction speed, the Microsoft mice are still some of the best for overall "feel". However, these days 800 CPI is usable in many games -- your sensitivity can be lower to compensate.
> 
> The lowest CPI I would use is 500, typically I would use 600-650, 1200 is the maximum for me.
> 
> It would be nice to have a high resolution sensor, with a frame rate of 9,000, that can poll at 1,000 Hz and has a malfunction speed of at least 4m/s. Preferably it would allow you to choose your own native steps. If it didn't, selectable steps of: 500, 750 (optional), 1000, 1250 (optional), 1500, 1750 (optional), 2000.
> 
> It is way over due for an update.


You can feel the difference between 6k and 9k FPS? Or is it more about a bit smoother (as in more accurate) tracking, kinda which you would spot in paint only?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> You can feel the difference between 6k and 9k FPS? Or is it more about a bit smoother (as in more accurate) tracking, kinda which you would spot in paint only?


_I cannot say with certainty._

Using a mouse (say the Zowie) on a red pad feels very different to me than on a black pad while gaming. Whether that has to do with frame rates or sensor responsivity I do not know.

If the sensor takes more frames it will have more data to work with. You would think this will allow better detection of motion, which would lead to a more fluid cursor.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _I cannot say with certainty._
> 
> Using a mouse (say the Zowie) on a red pad feels very different to me than on a black pad while gaming. Whether that has to do with frame rates or sensor responsivity I do not know.
> 
> If the sensor takes more frames it will have more data to work with. You would think this will allow better detection of motion, which would lead to a more fluid cursor.


Okay, just was curious. At least more frames can't hurt...


----------



## maTyaR

Hey guys, I've done some research and have seen that the Zowie FK is not available currently in Canada at this time. I currently work at Infonec Computers store (sales and technical), and I would like to announce that the Zowie FK will be arriving within 3-4 weeks from now due to shortage on production.

As far as pricing goes, I will keep you updated and list the pricing once it is available.

P.S: I'm so desperate for one of these myself,


----------



## Nilizum

Poster above me is my boyfriend. He is so desperate for my FK. He really want that good FK...


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _I cannot say with certainty._
> 
> Using a mouse (say the Zowie) on a red pad feels very different to me than on a black pad while gaming. Whether that has to do with frame rates or sensor responsivity I do not know.
> 
> If the sensor takes more frames it will have more data to work with. You would think this will allow better detection of motion, which would lead to a more fluid cursor.


I was unaware of this. I knew the sensor may have some trouble on multi-coloured mousepads, but had no idea that even a different solid color could make a difference with this sensor (even though I have experienced in other sensors).

Did anyone else test this and notice a difference? Right now i am using the Steelseries Qck heavy and am pretty satisfied, but I am also interested in trying some lighter color mousepad like the one zowie offers.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Yea I'm also interested in what mousepads people are using with their FK. I'm using a $1 mousepad, but it's friction is so high that when I move my mouse, sometimes the mousepad moves too.


----------



## Makav3li

I use a solid black Func XL. Works well, super low LOD.


----------



## meih

I had a Goliathus speed when I used the FK. Tracked quite well.


----------



## Pansar

Hello all!

I'm new to the board. Thanks for all the great discussion.

I have been playing fps games with the FK mouse for about two - three weeks now and it has allready started to misbehave for me. Not the tracking, that is just superb. But the mouse1 button has started to make a squeaky sound when you press it repeatedly. I was searching the web for people that had the same issue and found this youtube-film.




 (the sound starts 25 secs in)

Anyone of you guys that have the same issue with your mouse? I just returned it to the store cause it's too annoying to play with for me. I was thinking of ordering another one and hope that this one was just a bad egg and if I get a new one it has a better build, or if I should look at some other mouse with the same sensor like the Zowie Ec2 EVO that I guess would work good with a claw grip (the EC1 seems too big).

What do you guys think of this?


----------



## thorsteNN

Pansar,
mine does that, too. But not when I press it repeatedly. If I push it once, for example for hold a grenade in a game, and release it.
Then its squeaky. But I don't care, to be honest.


----------



## Pansar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thorsteNN*
> 
> Pansar,
> mine does that, too. But not when I press it repeatedly. If I push it once, for example for hold a grenade in a game, and release it.
> Then its squeaky. But I don't care, to be honest.


Okey, to me it's a bit too annoying. When I start to hear it I drop my concentration a bit from game.


----------



## thorsteNN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pansar*
> 
> Okey, to me it's a bit too annoying. When I start to hear it I drop my concentration a bit from game.


then you should go for a replacement, maybe you have more luck with a new one.


----------



## Arc0s

When I had my ec2 evo it would squeak when I held it down or rapid click, I looked at the front of the mouse and noticed that the front middle corner of the left button(the one close to the scroll wheel) was rubbing against the body of the mouse causing it to squeak. I took a small file and took a little bit off the tip and then it worked perfectly, you guys may want to check that.


----------



## Skar

Would drive me crazy, but maybe easy to fix - will check at home - also have one now (not a keeper, still think real omron and alps encoder feel better).


----------



## Pansar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> When I had my ec2 evo it would squeak when I held it down or rapid click, I looked at the front of the mouse and noticed that the front middle corner of the left button(the one close to the scroll wheel) was rubbing against the body of the mouse causing it to squeak. I took a small file and took a little bit off the tip and then it worked perfectly, you guys may want to check that.


How would you consider the EC2 evo is compared to the FK if you think aside the squeak issues? The fit and overall performance for a claw grip user.

edit: I ask this since I can't try it out before I buy it.


----------



## Makav3li

My FK squeaks occasionally also. Don't think you need to RMA it, will probably get another one that squeaks.


----------



## Nilizum

My FK squeeks too... Maybe it's because of the hardness of the buttons (the press).


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pansar*
> 
> How would you consider the EC2 evo is compared to the FK if you think aside the squeak issues? The fit and overall performance for a claw grip user.
> 
> edit: I ask this since I can't try it out before I buy it.


I can't talk about the FK since I've not owned one, but the ec 2 evo can be clawed just fine since it's a small mouse; the only thing I disliked were the huano switches and the wobbly scroll wheel but is all preference though.


----------



## popups

The wobbly scroll wheel in not preference.

The squeaking is from the plastic parts rubbing against each other. A simple shave with a file will do away with that.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The wobbly scroll wheel in not preference.
> 
> The squeaking is from the plastic parts rubbing against each other. A simple shave with a file will do away with that.


Yeah I meant not liking the Huanos being preference.


----------



## un1que

imho huanos switches are not that good,especially in games like quakelive where a tough button can let you miss certain shots


----------



## Deadeye

Best mouse ever, i had DA 2013, Xai, G400 and more cant remember. Better sensor performance than Xai, and smaller then Xai, i just have more feel when aiming,. better head shots.


----------



## futurefields

Call me crazy but i really like the clicks on Zowie mice.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *futurefields*
> 
> Call me crazy but i really like the clicks on Zowie mice.


Meh, not really crazy. Button stiffness doesn't depend only on the switches used, and I can tell my EC1 here feels just the same compared to G400 for example (note that it should use omrons). I dunno why nobody complains about G400.

EC series has quite a bit of travel, less could be better, but on the other hand it doesn't bother me much either, it's not even a rare thing on mice


----------



## Audio

Got the zowie FK today, im really happy with it. Everything feels responsive and solid.


----------



## resis

Do people who own the FK actually find it very good to grip? Is it non slippery? I just can't control the FK without too much effort, the rubber coating is like covered with a layer of dust that makes the hand not get a stable grip at any time. I hate it so much.
The AM has such a good shape and the rubber coating is like a glue to my hand, best design, but the stiff buttons and the wheel catastrophe can't make me go back to that nightmare. FK has bit better buttons and a much better wheel, but is so uncomfortable.

I hate you Zowie, you make me want to rip out my hair. Both good mice that fail where the other succeeds.


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Do people who own the FK actually find it very good to grip? Is it non slippery? I just can't control the FK without too much effort, the rubber coating is like covered with a layer of dust that makes the hand not get a stable grip at any time. I hate it so much.
> The AM has such a good shape and the rubber coating is like a glue to my hand, best design, but the stiff buttons and the wheel catastrophe can't make me go back to that nightmare. FK has bit better buttons and a much better wheel, but is so uncomfortable.
> 
> I hate you Zowie, you make me want to rip out my hair. Both good mice that fail where the other succeeds.


I am not finding any of these issues with my EC1 eVo...

When you talk about stiff buttons and "wheel catastrophe"...are you referring to the Huano switches being stiffer than Omrons and that the scroll wheel is heavy and "notchy"?

I haven't had any problems moving to Huanos from Omrons w/ FPS games. Also, the rubber coating is amazing. But I am guessing that you didn't go with the right-handed mouse for a reason.


----------



## meih

I very much liked FK's rubber coating compared to AM/EC, it's grippable all the time unlike rubbery AM/EC that takes a while to warm up. The glossy one is initially very good but after 30 minutes or so it gets extremely slippery, I'd rather have normal ABS plastic touching my hand then.

But I found the FK impossible to grip shape-wise. It's so flat and narrow so it just cramps my hand so much, I can't use it for longer than an hour. Too heavy (especially in the back) for fingertip, too narrow and flat to claw and just plain pain to palm (well, I can't really palm it because there's no support for the actual palm area without twisting my wrist in an unnatural position). And it's not like I have massive hands or anything.


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meih*
> 
> I very much liked FK's rubber coating compared to AM/EC, it's grippable all the time unlike rubbery AM/EC that takes a while to warm up. The glossy one is initially very good but after 30 minutes or so it gets extremely slippery, I'd rather have normal ABS plastic touching my hand then.
> 
> But I found the FK impossible to grip shape-wise. It's so flat and narrow so it just cramps my hand so much, I can't use it for longer than an hour. Too heavy (especially in the back) for fingertip, too narrow and flat to claw and just plain pain to palm (well, I can't really palm it because there's no support for the actual palm area without twisting my wrist in an unnatural position). And it's not like I have massive hands or anything.


There is no rubber coating on the FK?


----------



## Pansar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The squeaking is from the plastic parts rubbing against each other. A simple shave with a file will do away with that.


Have you done it? Can you confirm that it works?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Just got this mouse from ebay (game java). Wee!! Coming from a DA 2013 and an AM-FG. It feels like an enhanced AM, so far I love the in-hand feel. Feels like I can get even more control now!


----------



## a_ak57

Given that it's been a few months since the release, I take it that Newegg and Amazon aren't actually gonna stock this thing? Kind of a shame as I'd like to try it out, but $70 is too much.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Given that it's been a few months since the release, I take it that Newegg and Amazon aren't actually gonna stock this thing? Kind of a shame as I'd like to try it out, but $70 is too much.


I've read that Amazon will stock it through Game Java eventually once stock increases... but who knows when that will happen. I wonder why the FK is harder for them to produce... at least it seems that way.


----------



## connectwise

Is there a way to bind keyboard keys to the side mouse buttons?

I play at 4k-5k dpi, should I just make 1150 and then put in higher windows sensitivity?


----------



## futurefields

Newegg doesnt carry Zowie at all, anybody know why?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *futurefields*
> 
> Newegg doesnt carry Zowie at all, anybody know why?


They used to. You can still buy at NewEgg, but they don't sell the items.

I think once they sold out their stock they didn't make a deal with Zowie Gear, as Game Java is (from what I remember) the main seller now. Game Java and NewEgg are located rather close to each other. It isn't like it would be hard to supply them both, they are practically in the same city, which isn't that far from Zowie Gear's office.

Zowie Gear probably makes more money with Game Java than NewEgg.


----------



## phl0w

So, I was interested what the fuzz about Avago's 3090 was all about and got an FK today. I'm in the market for a successor to my MX300, and after the Taipan, and Abyssus didn't quite work out for me, and the G100s isn't even announced yet in Europe, I thought I give Zowie a try.
I am a mid to high-ish sens player (18-19cm/360°), my arm+wrist rest on my desk the whole time and only my hand is moving the mouse by radial and ulnar deviation. For vertical movements I flex and extend my fingers, which is why I can't palm a mouse. It'd make vertical movement impossible with a static wrist. Thus I'd describe my grip to be between palm and fingertip and my hand is rather small (20cm from metacarpus/wrist to tip of middle finger) for a grown-up man.

What I noticed right from the beginning:
Pros:
- amazing sensor! I think I like the feeling (tracking, responsiveness, accel-free, prediction-free) even more than my MX300, if there actually is a difference, seeing the 3090 is based on the famous S2020 in Logitech's MX series.
- build quality: the material(s) used are a joy to touch and feel
- no drivers, but a clever devised setup through button combinations pressed on plugging the mouse in
- cord: although not braided, very "unbendy" and flabby, it definitely won't get in the way by causing drag or resistance like stiffer cords
- Huano switches that release amazingly distinct and satisfying (preference for sure, but I play FPS exclusively, and I never needed to mash any of my mice buttons rapidly)
- reasonably priced in comparison to other premium mice from Razer, and SS

Cons:
- Scroll-Wheel: *** seriously? As of now, it's crap, simple as that. It's an imprecise piece of rubber that doesn't work half the time. There's a position which is the left edge of the wheel where it won't scroll down at all. To Zowie's defense, it might need some break-in, we'll see.
- a tad too low for my style. I'm used to rest the whole length of my pointer and middle finger on a mouse's back. However, I guess It's just a matter of getting used to the gap between my fingers' first phalanx bone and mouse.
- no easy button switching. If you set the mouse to left-handed, LMB and RMB get switched too. I know there are a LOT of left-handed gamers, that keep LMB=LMB, and don't swap them. Setting the mouse to left-handed to disable the left side buttons requires a button switch in the generic Windows driver. Yet, games recognize the button setup by Zowie, not Windows, requiring you to newly bind those buttons. Quite clumsy if you ask me.
- bottom plate to shell transition (where the yellow part meets the black shell): there's a pronounced edge, much like with WMO1.1a, that catches the meaty part of your thumb's ball, instead of displacing it by pushing it away. makes it nearly impossible to move the mouse by radial deviation. It hurts and stops your moving/ distracts you, because after experiencing it over and over again, you "wait" for it to happen, ruining your immediacy with the game. Both the Taipan and WMO1.1a have a similarly pronounced edge, and both catch skin sometimes, but the FK does so EVERY time I move it by radial deviation. I'm afraid this is critical and might be the nail in this otherwise flawless mouse's coffin, for me anyway. I can't quite understand how this mouse is advertised specially for claw-grip where one would palm the back of it even tighter than with fingertip/palm grip, thus running into that same problem over and over again. Unless, Zowie had their mice for low sens gamers in mind that move their wrists too. No problem for them I guess.

Granted, I've been using the mouse for just a few hours today, and will definitely give it a proper try over the course of the next few weeks. I hope the scroll wheel breaks-in over time, and my hand adapts to the broad back that keeps catching/rubbing skin, because I really like the mouse. Either that, or Logitech's G100s keeps its promises to be the successor every MX300-user has been waiting for.

Just my 2 Cents, hope it helps


----------



## LarsMarkelson

For the catching problem on the back, just apply the 2nd pair of mouse feet that came with the mouse. It raises it up and allows for perfect glide.

edit: not sure if you were talking about that after re-reading but it could help.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> _*long text*_


I've been using the FK for some weeks now. Pretty much everything what phl0w said (except the shell transition and lefty case, which doesn't bother me).

I actually played only a game once with it and it was nice, but since I haven't played games in the time it's just Windows use. I had big issues with the slippery coating, but it seems the coating wore in and is much grippier now (though I prefer AM coating). The shape was funky at first, but I think I got used to it, I had not to get used to the AM though, it felt right right away. The huanos have their pros and cons, but the wheel is really utter ****.

One thing I gotta say, Zowie really knows aesthetics. FK is the best looking mouse ever, even more than the AM. A joy to look at each time. I love the yellow wheel and base. The build quality makes it a real joy to grab and use it (as it was the case with the AM). All these things are part of why I keep buying Zowie mice (so far). I hope they improve the wheel in the future and introduce a better shape (than both FK and AM).


----------



## a_ak57

Well, decided to say "screw it" and ordered one. Got it today and my first impressions are basically the usual.

+ love the tracking
+ actually like the stiffness of the clicks
+ LOD is great
+ cable is nice
- don't really like the narrowness in the center
- scroll wheel feels like garbage
- still think $70 is an "eh" price


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Well, decided to say "screw it" and ordered one. Got it today and my first impressions are basically the usual.
> 
> + love the tracking
> + actually like the stiffness of the clicks
> + LOD is great
> + cable is nice
> - don't really like the narrowness in the center
> - scroll wheel feels like garbage
> - still think $70 is an "eh" price


where did you order it from?
im on the fence between an ec2 evo full gloss and the fk.


----------



## a_ak57

I got mine from 3Cworld on Amazon, though I see they've since increased the price by $7. Got it 2 days after I ordered, which surprised me since I'm on the opposite coast.

As for the EC2 vs FK, it pretty much depends on whether you want something ergonomic or ambidextrous.


----------



## jayfkay

I cant really recommend the ec2 evo full glossy.. first of all it has creamy bright white, it has glitter, the mouse cable is grey, the lighting is slighty altered to fit.. in short it looks gay.
and its quite a bit too sticky imo. but try it. maybe youre much different and looks arent important for a mouse anyway.


----------



## popups

I think the white Zowie mice look sexy! I am manly like that. I don't mind the flake/glitter of the gloss coat. I really liked the white Intellimouse as well.

The gloss of the Zowie mice is very "sticky" for my hands. The opposite of the DeathAdder BE.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> I cant really recommend the ec2 evo full glossy.. first of all it has creamy bright white, it has glitter, the mouse cable is grey, the lighting is slighty altered to fit.. in short it looks gay.
> and its quite a bit too sticky imo. but try it. maybe youre much different and looks arent important for a mouse anyway.


ill take that into consideration. i really prefer gloss over any sort of rubberized finish though. i kinda just wanted to get and sit on a ec2 evo to have an ergo mouse with a 3090 until they come out with a FK-FG or some variant that has gloss on it.


----------



## Diogenes5

Got my Zowie FK today. Coming from an EC2 Evo, my first impressions are:

1) Grip is different. I think its a little better since I have slightly sweaty hands.
2) Tracking is fine as usual from Zowie.
3) Mouse is noticeably lighter and easier to claw. Not only that, I can actually palm it pretty well too even though it's a relatively low mouse. I have medium-sized hands. Overall, the ergonomics are an improvement for me for my purposes of Starcraft II.
4) Clicks are way better than the Zowie AM (owned one for a month). The shell has a wider tip and the switches are definitely lighter. I can definitely tell they are huanos but they weren't so stiff as to cause the mouse to destabilize like the very narrow zowie am did.

This mouse is a keeper for me. I am selling my previous SC2 mouse of EC2 Evo modded with Omron XXX-01F switches from Japan (Catch it on a very popular auction site







). My EC2 was a great mouse but this is slightly better for my purposes as a claw gamer with medium-sized, sweaty hands.


----------



## discoprince

i want to grab a artisan hien soft L red wine for my fk when i order it.
will the red effect tracking more then a black or dark blue? or is it all good?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> i want to grab a artisan hien soft L red wine for my fk when i order it.
> will the red effect tracking more then a black or dark blue? or is it all good?


I don't know if you could say the "tracking" is better on the same pad in different colors. The "feel" of the cursor is different *to me* when you go from black to red, things feel smoother, I don't know about it [sensor] being more accurate.

A 3090 using max FPS, with native steps, using 1000Hz, on a red pad, would feel very nice.


----------



## Concept_357

where can I get this in Canada?


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Concept_357*
> 
> where can I get this in Canada?


I'm pretty sure gamejava ships to Canada.

http://www.gamejava.com/zowie-gear-gaming-mouse-retail-p-3242.html


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Concept_357*
> 
> where can I get this in Canada?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/600#post_19941118


----------



## Audio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> So, I was interested what the fuzz about Avago's 3090 was all about and got an FK today. I'm in the market for a successor to my MX300, and after the Taipan, and Abyssus didn't quite work out for me, and the G100s isn't even announced yet in Europe, I thought I give Zowie a try.
> I am a mid to high-ish sens player (18-19cm/360°), my arm+wrist rest on my desk the whole time and only my hand is moving the mouse by radial and ulnar deviation. For vertical movements I flex and extend my fingers, which is why I can't palm a mouse. It'd make vertical movement impossible with a static wrist. Thus I'd describe my grip to be between palm and fingertip and my hand is rather small (20cm from metacarpus/wrist to tip of middle finger) for a grown-up man.
> 
> What I noticed right from the beginning:
> Pros:
> - amazing sensor! I think I like the feeling (tracking, responsiveness, accel-free, prediction-free) even more than my MX300, if there actually is a difference, seeing the 3090 is based on the famous S2020 in Logitech's MX series.
> - build quality: the material(s) used are a joy to touch and feel
> - no drivers, but a clever devised setup through button combinations pressed on plugging the mouse in
> - cord: although not braided, very "unbendy" and flabby, it definitely won't get in the way by causing drag or resistance like stiffer cords
> - Huano switches that release amazingly distinct and satisfying (preference for sure, but I play FPS exclusively, and I never needed to mash any of my mice buttons rapidly)
> - reasonably priced in comparison to other premium mice from Razer, and SS
> 
> Cons:
> - Scroll-Wheel: *** seriously? As of now, it's crap, simple as that. It's an imprecise piece of rubber that doesn't work half the time. There's a position which is the left edge of the wheel where it won't scroll down at all. To Zowie's defense, it might need some break-in, we'll see.
> - a tad too low for my style. I'm used to rest the whole length of my pointer and middle finger on a mouse's back. However, I guess It's just a matter of getting used to the gap between my fingers' first phalanx bone and mouse.
> - no easy button switching. If you set the mouse to left-handed, LMB and RMB get switched too. I know there are a LOT of left-handed gamers, that keep LMB=LMB, and don't swap them. Setting the mouse to left-handed to disable the left side buttons requires a button switch in the generic Windows driver. Yet, games recognize the button setup by Zowie, not Windows, requiring you to newly bind those buttons. Quite clumsy if you ask me.
> - bottom plate to shell transition (where the yellow part meets the black shell): there's a pronounced edge, much like with WMO1.1a, that catches the meaty part of your thumb's ball, instead of displacing it by pushing it away. makes it nearly impossible to move the mouse by radial deviation. It hurts and stops your moving/ distracts you, because after experiencing it over and over again, you "wait" for it to happen, ruining your immediacy with the game. Both the Taipan and WMO1.1a have a similarly pronounced edge, and both catch skin sometimes, but the FK does so EVERY time I move it by radial deviation. I'm afraid this is critical and might be the nail in this otherwise flawless mouse's coffin, for me anyway. I can't quite understand how this mouse is advertised specially for claw-grip where one would palm the back of it even tighter than with fingertip/palm grip, thus running into that same problem over and over again. Unless, Zowie had their mice for low sens gamers in mind that move their wrists too. No problem for them I guess.
> 
> Granted, I've been using the mouse for just a few hours today, and will definitely give it a proper try over the course of the next few weeks. I hope the scroll wheel breaks-in over time, and my hand adapts to the broad back that keeps catching/rubbing skin, because I really like the mouse. Either that, or Logitech's G100s keeps its promises to be the successor every MX300-user has been waiting for.
> 
> Just my 2 Cents, hope it helps


I agree with most of this, but I found the scroll wheel to be good, not bad at all. It seems like theres something wrong with your mouse if it's not reading the scroll. Mine always scrolls, even when i put a good amount of pressure on the wheel to the left or right. I also didn't find my thumb getting caught under the mouse at all. It seems like you have fat thumbs. im 210 lbs 5'10 so i'm not some thin guy, and my thumb does drag on my matt, or maybe you just grip the mouse much harder then i do. I do agree with the mouse being a bit low, but form factor has never been a make or break thing for me when it comes to a good mouse.

sensor = amazing
build = amazing
no drivers= amazing
cord = Meh, could be braided.
switches= I found the responsiveness to be very nice, however i did find them a bit stiff at times.
overall= extremely happy with the mouse

Also if you're serious about competitive fps or just increasing your casual skill, which i assume you are since your here posting mice reviews. You should aim with your arm. Aiming with your arm will give you more precision. If you aim with your wrist your sensitivity has to be turned up to compensate for the range of motion of your wrist. This results in less accuracy. With my set up now, full motion of my wrist only moves the crosshair about 45 degrees. If your character is doing a 180 or 360 in a full motion of your wrist your sensitivity is way too high. It's pretty much impossible for people to get the same sort of accuracy and range of motion as someone who aims with their arm.

It's important to understand im not saying low sense is nescesarily better because it has more accuracy, because speed is also a key factor in having good aim and having high sensitivity can increase your speed. However, you can't reach a good medium of range of motion and accuracy using only your wrist. I used to aim with my wrist for years...Making the transition a few years ago i found it hard to break the habbit of aiming with my wrist, the soloution is to just play at extremelly low sense for a while and gradually increase your mouse sensitivity. Also extremely important to have mouse acceleration disabled in windows.


----------



## Concept_357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/600#post_19941118


I already checked... it's not showing up under search.


----------



## CattleCorn

Hey guys, I can't bind my middle mouse button on my FK to melee in BF3. It doesn't recognize my button push. Anything I can try? I haven't installed any mouse drivers--it's a fresh install of Windows on a new computer.


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Audio*
> 
> I agree with most of this, but I found the scroll wheel to be good, not bad at all. It seems like theres something wrong with your mouse if it's not reading the scroll. Mine always scrolls, even when i put a good amount of pressure on the wheel to the left or right. I also didn't find my thumb getting caught under the mouse at all. It seems like you have fat thumbs. im 210 lbs 5'10 so i'm not some thin guy, and my thumb does drag on my matt, or maybe you just grip the mouse much harder then i do. I do agree with the mouse being a bit low, but form factor has never been a make or break thing for me when it comes to a good mouse.
> 
> sensor = amazing
> build = amazing
> no drivers= amazing
> cord = Meh, could be braided.
> switches= I found the responsiveness to be very nice, however i did find them a bit stiff at times.
> overall= extremely happy with the mouse
> 
> Also if you're serious about competitive fps or just increasing your casual skill, which i assume you are since your here posting mice reviews. You should aim with your arm. Aiming with your arm will give you more precision. If you aim with your wrist your sensitivity has to be turned up to compensate for the range of motion of your wrist. This results in less accuracy. With my set up now, full motion of my wrist only moves the crosshair about 45 degrees. If your character is doing a 180 or 360 in a full motion of your wrist your sensitivity is way too high. It's pretty much impossible for people to get the same sort of accuracy and range of motion as someone who aims with their arm.
> 
> It's important to understand im not saying low sense is nescesarily better because it has more accuracy, because speed is also a key factor in having good aim and having high sensitivity can increase your speed. However, you can't reach a good medium of range of motion and accuracy using only your wrist. I used to aim with my wrist for years...Making the transition a few years ago i found it hard to break the habbit of aiming with my wrist, the soloution is to just play at extremelly low sense for a while and gradually increase your mouse sensitivity. Also extremely important to have mouse acceleration disabled in windows.


I just wanted to clear up a couple things, brotato.

The reason that it's actually a good thing the cord is not braided is that the cord is actually much lighter and flexible without the fiber braid around it. At first I thought the non-braided cable was a bad thing as well, and then I bought my Zowie mouse and realized my misconception.

I think what you meant to say was not "aiming with your arm" but rather moving/turning with your arm and still doing the fine adjustment aiming with your wrist. But yeah, only a couple weeks ago I changed from being a 4"/360 (high-sens) player, and I played that way for years, to a 16"/360 player (low-sens)...and while it took several days for me to adjust, I am quite at home with it now. I can definitely see the improvement in my aim while playing CS:GO...what's ironic is, is that now sometimes I feel like 16"/360 is too high and maybe I should lower my sensitivity even further to 20" or something! I wonder if I will be able to adapt to this much lower sensitivity while playing games like TF2 as the soldier class where really really fast twitches are necessary...maybe I'll need to drop it down to 12"/360 or something.

But, I'm glad you like the FK, it sure is nice looking.

I guess one thing I'd like to ask about it, how is the scroll wheel...is it "notchy"/heavy? I quite like that about my EC1 eVo...it's great for FPS games.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't know if you could say the "tracking" is better on the same pad in different colors. The "feel" of the cursor is different *to me* when you go from black to red, things feel smoother, I don't know about it [sensor] being more accurate.
> 
> A 3090 using max FPS, with native steps, using 1000Hz, on a red pad, would feel very nice.


good to know
looks like thats what ill be picking up then. cant wait to get paid DDD


----------



## phl0w

Hey there. Been using the FK now for a week, and wanted to post a quick heads-up. Some answers first:
Quote:


> but I found the scroll wheel to be good, not bad at all


Although I prefer a mechanical encoder in a scroll wheel, I like the feeling of the one used by Zowie. What I don't like is, that it doesn't register from any position grabbed. But this is a minor gripe, as I quickly adapted to it. Maybe I got a bad one, doubt it though, since I read quite a few opinions on the wheel where it misses a step when not scrolled from the top but at the left side or the front. Still, this won't make or break a mouse for me, only use left, and right button with any game anyway.
Quote:


> I also didn't find my thumb getting caught under the mouse at all. It seems like you have fat thumbs


My BMI is 21, thus my weight is ideal. I am very skinny and play the piano. So my fingers are quite musculous, and long. Not important anymore though, was just a matter of positioning my thumb. Never happened again since I've adapted to its shape.
Quote:


> You should aim with your arm. Aiming with your arm will give you more precision


That is simply not true from a pure anatomical point of view. Your fingers can move way more precisely than your forearm. But I think you just worded it in a way it gets misunderstood. Remmib cleared it up, so no need to get into it again. I'm playing high paced FPS like Quake World, Quake 3, and Quake Live, where the world's best players play both very low (50cm/360), and very high (9cm/360). Maybe it's not true for CS, don't know, never played it in my life, but with Quake's speed (in particular QW) movement is more important than pixel-accurate aim. Not the topic now, though.

So here are my revisited cons (the pros are ofc still valid):
- scroll wheel: it takes some getting used to, but then feels quite nice, and won't turn on accident like the easy-turning wheels in MS mice. It DID take some breaking-in. However, applying pressure on its +x or -y axis (imagine coordinates through the wheels hub) will not register turns.
- shape: although advertised for claw-grip, the mouse really is way too low-profiled to make a stable contact with your hand pit (a defining factor for the claw-grip). It is perfect though for fingertip, and with the right positioning of your fingers perfectly fine for palm-grip. At first I palmed the mouse and held it with thumb, and pinky. Due to the narrowness in the middle the resulting arch and the pressure I had to apply to stabilize it were too much for my hand and I suffered severe hand cramps that even went up my arm, and reached my neck for the first 5 days. However, as soon as I adapted my grip from the MX300 to its shape (hold mouse with thumb and ringfinger, pinky either loose or below ringfinger), my hand felt way better. Can't speak for my neck yet, will take some time to recover from the severe strain. In fact, when I visited Zowie's homepage, and read the design philosophy behind the FK's shape by "Neo" (Filip Kubski), I saw that he actually holds the AM in the same way I came up with for the FK. Especially in the second picture you can see he actually palms the mouse. So much for claw-grip design...
- shell that caught skin: Solved- see above response to Audio.
-dpi steps: I measured my first dpi step quite a few times and different methods, and always came up wit approx. 488dpi. While this is only a matter of 8-9% it still has to be taken into account when one tries to set his sensitivity, and can't achieve the proper transition because he uses 450dpi for the equations. Next step is about 1220. Didn't measure the last dpi step because it is way too imprecise to calculate it properly with my restricted methods.

All in all, to my hand it's no MX300, sadly, but I will continue using it. I really like the whole concept behind Zowie's products, and it's simply a beauty. The sensor is amazing too, which in my book is the most important thing.


----------



## cadger

^

That's a AM in the pictures. I think he's showing how he didn't want to hold the mouse. Not completely sure though.


----------



## phl0w

Sure, it's an AM, because he described what he was after when picking up the AM. Could also be a prototype looking like an AM with modified shape that we don't see because of his hand. After all, naturally they settled on the colour at the end of R&D. Still, reading how he describes his grip I think the pics do show how he wants a mouse to hold, and explains what his ideas (e.g. concave sides to put both ring finger and pinky on the side of the mouse) for the design team were to allow for this style of gripping the mouse. I'm not native English, so maybe I misunderstood it. Then again neither is Neo, thus making it hard to communicate minute details when both have to resort to a third language.


----------



## popups

So the FK has the same issues as the EC does with its scroll wheel?


----------



## phl0w

Never tried the EC. If its got the same as the AM than the FK's wheel is an improvement over it. Still got issues rhough


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So the FK has the same issues as the EC does with its scroll wheel?


EC eVo's don't have any scroll wheel issues, unless you received a mouse from a bad batch or something...


----------



## jayfkay

what exactly is a scrollwheel issue?


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> what exactly is a scrollwheel issue?


- "Pinch" (as in grab its sides between thumb and another finger) the scroll wheel, pull it upward, then scroll the wheel.
- scroll from the very front of the wheel
- scroll from the left side of the wheel

and it will not register the downscroll. Up works from any position.

Read the Ec2 review thread from pages 24-27 for an extensive coverage (and suggested solution) of the problem.


----------



## b0z0

My Ec2 Evo has the scroll wheel issue. I've literally put in 10+ RMA requests and they message me finally after my year warranty just passed. I've never had such a horrible experience with a company. I've waited months for a reply, and get one May 27, when my yr warranty was up May 16.


----------



## jayfkay

that just sounds wierd. the issue you describe sounds like it would not be of hinderance with regular use. I only use my mousewheel to switch weapons.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> the issue you describe sounds like it would not be of hinderance with regular use


Depends on what you call regular use.
But you're right, it's not make or break for a mouse, and it's something you quickly get accustomed to and just grab the wheel from the top, which I guess most do most of the time anyway.
However, seeing it's advertised towards gamers that play with claw grip (thus grab the wheel from the front), and even has a dent in front of the wheel that invites to use the wheel from there (doesn't work though), leaves a bad taste in my opinion. Also, if you're used to scrolling with the side of your index finger (don't put it on the wheel, but apply pressure to its side and scroll), you'll have to get used to a more "conventional" or regular type of using a scroll wheel.
It's just a nuisance for those that care about those kind of things.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> that just sounds wierd. the issue you describe sounds like it would not be of hinderance with regular use. I only use my mousewheel to switch weapons.


In Quake or CS, players may bind scroll wheel down as jump to strafe jump (b-hop), then it is a major problem.

I use bind "mwheeldown" "+jump" for CS, Source and GO. For example, it helps me to jump onto silo, on Nuke, in GO. You have to time the second jump perfectly in GO to increase your unit speed. To use the EC to do that is hard, as the EC tends to miss the second scroll often, makes me miss the jump. Could you use space bar to make the jump? Probably, but I use space as walk.

I guess I will have to stick with the Zowie AM and DeathAdder BE. I have to stock up. Is BST still going to release a mouse?


----------



## jayfkay

supposedly its coming 15th august


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> that just sounds wierd. the issue you describe sounds like it would not be of hinderance with regular use. I only use my mousewheel to switch weapons.


It's been an issue going all the back to the original EC1 and EC2 (source: I've owned the pre-eVo versions). It's not an issue for me because I don't bind scroll to anything, but it's so easy to press the wheel to the side during quick use that I could certainly see a missed input every now and then. For some people this would be enough to constitute a constant issue. Now I have no gripes with the EC1 eVo and EC2 eVo, but like I said, I'm not personally subject to the scroll wheel problems because of my playstyle.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> - "Pinch" (as in grab its sides between thumb and another finger) the scroll wheel, pull it upward, then scroll the wheel.
> - scroll from the very front of the wheel
> - scroll from the left side of the wheel
> 
> and it will not register the downscroll. Up works from any position.
> 
> Read the Ec2 review thread from pages 24-27 for an extensive coverage (and suggested solution) of the problem.


I think you have a bum mouse...

I tried hard to reproduce on my FK and it registered the wheel movement every time...

In my research I did find a lot of EC users with this problem, but no FK users.


----------



## phl0w

Let's assume I have a bum. Don't you find it startling that it shows the exact same issues that plagued previous models? it's obvious that the issue wasn't fixed.


----------



## jayfkay

i just bought a new AM-FG for 14€
gz to me


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> Let's assume I have a bum. Don't you find it startling that it shows the exact same issues that plagued previous models? it's obvious that the issue wasn't fixed.


I feel like it's just a freak occurrence, considering I haven't seen other people reporting this with the FK. And it's definitely something people are looking for, considering how notorious it was for Zowie with the EC series.


----------



## Concept_357

For all Canadians wanting to purchase the FK, the FK was just added to the CanadaComputers inventory! I just placed my order!

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_273_275&item_id=060979


----------



## jayfkay

65dorrars XD

versus my 14€

u jelly?


----------



## jayfkay

double ftw


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> 65dorrars XD
> 
> versus my 14€
> 
> u jelly?


where did u get it for 14€?


----------



## jayfkay

ebay XD 3 day auction ending thursday lunch-time.. no competition
brandnew AM for 14€ no problem


----------



## phl0w

Soooo. I decided to go for it, and undertook the "mod" that was described in the EC2 thread. The scroll wheel is now working perfectly fine. A tad stiffer, which means the shaft is now held in place by the mold as it's supposed to be. It scrolls in any direction from anywhere I start scrolling.







Hope it stays like this!

There are 4 screws to break, 2 under each foot. The front ones are very small and fastened quite tight. You really have to apply torque carefully cause those plastic threads are easily bored out..Thankfully there are no other traps to encounter like those dreadful latches in the WMO. I peeled the feet off very carefully, and could re-apply them without any problems, since I wasn't keen on wasting the spare pair. Glide feels the same to me.

Now I can finally fully enjoy my FK


----------



## LarsMarkelson

How hard is it to remove the shell? I have my mind on some personal mods that could be nice.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> There are 4 screws to break, 2 under each foot. The front ones are very small and fastened quite tight.


That's it. The shell is only put on top of the bottom plate, no latches or hinges whatsoever, will come right off. If not, I guess you could push your finger nail in between shell and bottom where the yellow part is reaching up a bit.
Also, plenty of space in it. Thinking about adding some weight.

Took some pics. You can see the mold and the thingies that should prevent the wheel from lifting. And some

You can see the mold and the black thingies in the shell that should prevent the wheel from lifting:



Here you can see that the shaft only lays in those 2 yellow dents, but they are molded as semi circles instead of conical (or at least one of them being an eyelet) like in so many other mice to, again, prevent the shaft from lifting.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> That's it. The shell is only put on top of the bottom plate, no latches or hinges whatsoever, will come right off. If not, I guess you could push your finger nail in between shell and bottom where the yellow part is reaching up a bit.
> 
> Also, plenty of space in it. Thinking about adding some weight.
> 
> Took some pics. You can see the mold and the thingies that should prevent the wheel from lifting. And some
> 
> Here you can see that the shaft only lays in those 2 yellow dents, but they are molded as semi circles instead of conical (or at least one of them being an eyelet) like in so many other mice to, again, prevent the shaft from lifting.






So this worked out for you? Fixing the Zowie/Kingsis scroll wheel issue.


----------



## Axaion

that is some nice pics, wish reviewers would do the same + sides and front ^^


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> That's it. The shell is only put on top of the bottom plate, no latches or hinges whatsoever, will come right off. If not, I guess you could push your finger nail in between shell and bottom where the yellow part is reaching up a bit.
> Also, plenty of space in it. Thinking about adding some weight.
> 
> Took some pics. You can see the mold and the thingies that should prevent the wheel from lifting. And some
> 
> You can see the mold and the black thingies in the shell that should prevent the wheel from lifting:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see that the shaft only lays in those 2 yellow dents, but they are molded as semi circles instead of conical (or at least one of them being an eyelet) like in so many other mice to, again, prevent the shaft from lifting.


Do you still need a triangle screw driver to take this mouse apart? I needed one for my Zowie EC2 and I haven't bothered to try taking apart my FK as my triangle screwdrivers are still in the mail.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Do you still need a triangle screw driver to take this mouse apart? I needed one for my Zowie EC2 and I haven't bothered to try taking apart my FK as my triangle screwdrivers are still in the mail.


If it's like the AM, then it should just use regular screws (thankfully). That triangular screw was what prevented me from fixing my original EC2 evo. Incredibly annoying.


----------



## Audio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> I just wanted to clear up a couple things, brotato.
> 
> The reason that it's actually a good thing the cord is not braided is that the cord is actually much lighter and flexible without the fiber braid around it. At first I thought the non-braided cable was a bad thing as well, and then I bought my Zowie mouse and realized my misconception.
> 
> I think what you meant to say was not "aiming with your arm" but rather moving/turning with your arm and still doing the fine adjustment aiming with your wrist. But yeah, only a couple weeks ago I changed from being a 4"/360 (high-sens) player, and I played that way for years, to a 16"/360 player (low-sens)...and while it took several days for me to adjust, I am quite at home with it now. I can definitely see the improvement in my aim while playing CS:GO...what's ironic is, is that now sometimes I feel like 16"/360 is too high and maybe I should lower my sensitivity even further to 20" or something! I wonder if I will be able to adapt to this much lower sensitivity while playing games like TF2 as the soldier class where really really fast twitches are necessary...maybe I'll need to drop it down to 12"/360 or something.
> 
> But, I'm glad you like the FK, it sure is nice looking.
> 
> I guess one thing I'd like to ask about it, how is the scroll wheel...is it "notchy"/heavy? I quite like that about my EC1 eVo...it's great for FPS games.


16/360 sounds pretty good to me.. If you go to low your aim just gets slow. It's actually hard to hit whip shots if your mouse moves too slow.

I do make sublte movments with my wrist, but it's mostly just recoil control.. pretty much all of my aiming is in my arm. That probably doesn't matter much as long as your making large movements with your arm.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> So this worked out for you? Fixing the Zowie/Kingsis scroll wheel issue.


Exactly, the second ppart for fixing the scroll issue.Took another route, because I encountered a (minor) problem.
Quote:


> Do you still need a triangle screw driver to take this mouse apart?


Nope, just your regular Philips screwdriver.
Quote:


> that is some nice pics, wish reviewers would do the same + sides and front ^^


Thanks, but I just wanted to give a quick impression of the inside. If you want pics front+side I can take some, I won't take the mouse apart, again though - I don't think the glides are reusable another time.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> Thanks, but I just wanted to give a quick impression of the inside. If you want pics front+side I can take some, I won't take the mouse apart, again though - I don't think the glides are reusable another time.


Would be much obliged, i actually meant for the pics to be taken with the mouse fully assembled, makes one wonder how sites with thousands upon thousands of dollars, paying people to review, fails to take pictures even remotely close to the ones you took


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Would be much obliged, i actually meant for the pics to be taken with the mouse fully assembled, makes one wonder how sites with thousands upon thousands of dollars, paying people to review, fails to take pictures even remotely close to the ones you took


I think it's because they don't have in their intention to serve the people. This makes a huge difference, i noticed this with myself. This is why you get those dull reviews, sometimes with only one picture.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> I think it's because they don't have in their intention to serve the people. This makes a huge difference, i noticed this with myself. This is why you get those dull reviews, sometimes with only one picture.


Aye, seems that non paid reviewers, are always much more knowledgeable and seems to care more overall about what people actually get, instead of just trying to sell whatever the company paid them to promote :\ (which makes sense for the company who paid for the review, but still i rage every time i see a few with "Positive; HIGH DPI!, WEIGHT SYTEM" "Negative; No LEDS, Not Laser, Not 71 buttons" ^^


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Aye, seems that non paid reviewers, are always much more knowledgeable and seems to care more overall about what people actually get, instead of just trying to sell whatever the company paid them to promote :\ (which makes sense for the company who paid for the review, but still i rage every time i see a few with "Positive; HIGH DPI!, WEIGHT SYTEM" "Negative; No LEDS, Not Laser, Not 71 buttons" ^^


I wanted to make that point next. If you'd try to educate them about whats important, they would be like "no one cared about this and now you come with this stuff?" This shows again the same problem. Would it be for the people, one would accept it and try to learn, because it's clearly important to know to the people. Anyway, apart from sensor performance: All the apparent thing you can elaborate on, the shape alone, you could provide comparisons and so on. I know, that takes time.
Afterall, if they just want to earn a living, there's not a problem in selling tomatoes. But at least those of good quality, get us some high res pictures (and stay honest).


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> Would be much obliged, i actually meant for the pics to be taken with the mouse fully assembled


Sure thing, here you go. Took some in comparison to the most well known mouse in comparison, the WMO 1.1a. I used my white model to enhance contrast. All pictures are aligned with a level, so there's no distortion.










Healthy distance, so the cord won't scrap on the used surface.


For high res go to my gallery


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> Sure thing, here you go. Took some in comparison to the most well known mouse in comparison, the WMO 1.1a. I used my white model to enhance contrast. All pictures are aligned with a level, so there's no distortion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Healthy distance, so the cord won't scrap on the used surface.
> 
> 
> For high res go to my gallery


Nice, thanks man


----------



## discoprince

just ordered my FK and Artisan Hien L Soft Red Wine from Amazon. Can't f'ing wait. Been waiting a long time to order them.


----------



## phl0w

Well, after using the always-registering scroll wheel over the course of the day, I encountered some problems, that led me to open the shell again, and look for another solution.
The tape around the clip thing works just fine, but it definitely makes the scroll stiffer. While this is just a matter of getting used to, the stiffness was inconsistent. Sometimes it would scroll very freely, sometimes I felt more resistance. I think this is a result of the clip not being able to move freely in its seat. Since you can't fixate the wheel in the cradle altogether, or you'll change the wheel click from very hard to not working anymore, the idea was to enhance the clip's friction with tape. That way it had a harder time moving up and down, and it worked. However, same friction was responsible (I think) that the clip now wasn't returning to its lowest point quickly enough, making not only the scrolling harder, but also the wheel click, and very noticeable, so I might add.

Here's the mod I'm trying out: I didn't apply tape to the clip, but to those clumsily constructed black things, which should keep the wheel assembly in its cradle. Namely the long part, not the pointy one.


Works fine. Wheel scrolls from anywhere, and didn't get stiffer. Click is working like before too.







We'll see if any long term side effects occur.


----------



## mint567

I am tempted to get an FK but I have an EC2 (original) and I absolutely hate the scroll wheel. Its old and it does have the scroll wheel bug where it does not register the first few scrolls. I had an AM but it was too hard to grip. I am currently happy with the sensei raw besides the right button being mushy. The FK looks nice but $70 is a lot of money for the mouse.


----------



## 666lbs

Must say, after receiving an FK it's actually done a lot to alleviate the hand cramping I got with the AM. With my grip style (hybrid palm/claw even though I have bigger hands) the extra width at the top widens the grip for my ring finger (which I lay along the mouse). In other words, unless you're fingertipping this mouse, it should feel wider than the AM. The clicks are significantly softer than the AM (like, by a lot; almost as soft as Omrons) but slightly more tactile than Omron switches, and I personally find the rubber coating easier to grip, along with the shape.

Overall, I'm very impressed with this mouse. Flattening the back slightly and inverting the side angles has taken the cramp out of my grip while letting me continue to use a mouse that otherwise performs just like an AM.


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> Must say, after receiving an FK it's actually done a lot to alleviate the hand cramping I got with the AM. With my grip style (hybrid palm/claw even though I have bigger hands) the extra width at the top widens the grip for my ring finger (which I lay along the mouse). In other words, unless you're fingertipping this mouse, it should feel wider than the AM. The clicks are significantly softer than the AM (like, by a lot; almost as soft as Omrons) but slightly more tactile than Omron switches, and I personally find the rubber coating easier to grip, along with the shape.
> 
> Overall, I'm very impressed with this mouse. Flattening the back slightly and inverting the side angles has taken the cramp out of my grip while letting me continue to use a mouse that otherwise performs just like an AM.


I had the exact same issue with the AM. After about a hour of use the AM made my hand cramp to the point where I couldn't use it. I've had no problems so far with the FK and have really loved it.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> Well, after using the always-registering scroll wheel over the course of the day, I encountered some problems, that led me to open the shell again, and look for another solution.
> The tape around the clip thing works just fine, but it definitely makes the scroll stiffer. While this is just a matter of getting used to, the stiffness was inconsistent. Sometimes it would scroll very freely, sometimes I felt more resistance. I think this is a result of the clip not being able to move freely in its seat. Since you can't fixate the wheel in the cradle altogether, or you'll change the wheel click from very hard to not working anymore, the idea was to enhance the clip's friction with tape. That way it had a harder time moving up and down, and it worked. However, same friction was responsible (I think) that the clip now wasn't returning to its lowest point quickly enough, making not only the scrolling harder, but also the wheel click, and very noticeable, so I might add.
> 
> Here's the mod I'm trying out: I didn't apply tape to the clip, but to those clumsily constructed black things, which should keep the wheel assembly in its cradle. Namely the long part, not the pointy one.
> 
> 
> Works fine. Wheel scrolls from anywhere, and didn't get stiffer. Click is working like before too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll see if any long term side effects occur.






Well if you do it my way you will get better/actual feedback from the wheel. Depending on the springs this could feel stiffer than allowing the clip to move around in the mouse when you scroll. Putting tape on the top to act as a buffer can make the wheel feel weird, it depends on the tape. You could even add some kind of epoxy and polish it to do a better job.

I like the way it is with the tape on the clip. I add lubrication to try to cut down on the friction on the bearing surface.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Review and comparison of the AM and FK:


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Review and comparison of the AM and FK:


You seem to have some production issues, its going way too fast making you sound like a chipmunk


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> You seem to have some production issues, its going way too fast making you sound like a chipmunk


I sped it up on purpose. I hate sitting around listening to someone talk slow for 15 minutes when I could of read it in 5.


----------



## Audio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I sped it up on purpose. I hate sitting around listening to someone talk slow for 15 minutes when I could of read it in 5.


your very much like me, i'm sure your handwriting is a piece of work as well lol..


----------



## Makav3li

Having used the FK for a couple months now, my only complaint is that the mouse clicks make squeaky noises. I read some other people mentioned this. Is it really prevalent? I have a feeling they all might squeak.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Having used the FK for a couple months now, my only complaint is that the mouse clicks make squeaky noises. I read some other people mentioned this. Is it really prevalent? I have a feeling they all might squeak.


My educated guess would be that it is a mold issue that will not go away. I doubt Zowie would spend money to fix it. Anyway, I think their mold maker isn't very good at creating molds. The EC has the scroll wheel issue. The AM has issues with the right side button and cable area -- also had a mouse 1/2 button issue. Now I am hearing the FK has the EC scroll wheel issue and a rubbing/squeaking with mouse 1/2.


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I sped it up on purpose. I hate sitting around listening to someone talk slow for 15 minutes when I could of read it in 5.


I really like the down-to-business style of your reviews. Quick and to the point, just how I like it. Although it's a bit hard to listen when it's sped up.


----------



## jr92

1150 dpi? What are these **** dpi intervals, why not something more realistic like 450 - 900 - 1800. I would've been interested in this mice if it wasn't for that, 450 dpi is to low for me and 1150 is to high, 800-900 is almost a necessity for new mice imo.


----------



## PUKED

If anyone else with a Talent was unsure how well it would track, here you go:


(ignore the spikes, that's just Audition getting creative connecting the dots)

Malfunction speed is ~3.4m/s but I didn't notice until I measured it. When it happens in game it feels like negative accel, I haven't ended up staring at the ceiling yet.


----------



## connectwise

Does that graph means it does well with the talent? Or poorly?


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Does that graph means it does well with the talent? Or poorly?


It indicates that the tracking is good, maybe even great.


----------



## kazuyamishima

I have used the FK since about a month after its release. I used the AM before that.

For me the FK has solved the problems I had with the AM. The AM made my hand uncomfortable when used a long time without breaks. I also though it was hard to lift and the surface material was slippery. That is a complaint I have with almost all rubberized coatings.

In the FK, my hands never get uncomfortable. The mouse is wider in the front, and from the bottom to the top of the mouse, it goes from narrow to wide. This makes it much easier to lift and just easier to hold in general. The rubberized material is different on this mouse. It feels much less soft and rubbery, and more like textured plastic. It is pretty comfortable for me to hold, I never have to worry about slipperiness.

I am still interested though whether a glossy white version of the mouse will be released. I am already very satisfied with what I have, but if it would be released I would be tempted to try it out, even if the rubberized coating on the FK does not really bother me.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> 1150 dpi? What are these **** dpi intervals, why not something more realistic like 450 - 900 - 1800. I would've been interested in this mice if it wasn't for that, 450 dpi is to low for me and 1150 is to high, 800-900 is almost a necessity for new mice imo.


First of all, those DPI are only for the spec sheet. Zowie's "unconventional" steps are a result of their using a custom lens (i.e. different magnification of A3090), and miscalculation/marketing on their part. See posts #378-#388 of BST's thread for clarification.


----------



## Pansar

As kazuyamishima mention above the FK coating is really nice. If you compare it to the ec2 coating its like night and day. I would need handball glue to be able to lift the ec2 as that coating makes it the moste slippery thing ever.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pansar*
> 
> As kazuyamishima mention above the FK coating is really nice. If you compare it to the ec2 coating its like night and day. I would need handball glue to be able to lift the ec2 as that coating makes it the moste slippery thing ever.


The coating on the FK is acceptable, nice to the touch without being slippery. When I compare it to just a cheap normal Logitech mouse, it actually manages to feel a little more grippy, a lot of special coating feel worse than the cheap logitech mouse that I use on my laptop.


----------



## Diogenes5

Ugh, it looks like the switches are epoxied on. I couldn't get them loose by simply desoldering. WHY Zowie!!! Everyone that needs APM hates your crappy Huano switches. If anyone knows a method to get them off please let me know.


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Ugh, it looks like the switches are epoxied on. I couldn't get them loose by simply desoldering. WHY Zowie!!! Everyone that needs APM hates your crappy Huano switches. If anyone knows a method to get them off please let me know.


Wut? You can't take the solder off? Although it'd take more time/effort to take epoxy resin off, it should still be possible! Just search around for "how to remove epoxy resin" and you should be fine.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Having used the FK for a couple months now, my only complaint is that the mouse clicks make squeaky noises. I read some other people mentioned this. Is it really prevalent? I have a feeling they all might squeak.


I didn't notice anything like that with either the AM or FK, but I only tested them for a day or two.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I didn't notice anything like that with either the AM or FK, but I only tested them for a day or two.


I didn't notice it on my AM. But press the FK switches quickly with some force and listen. It doesn't seem to affect me at all and I usually game with headphones on so don't hear it. But it is weird.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I didn't notice it on my AM. But press the FK switches quickly with some force and listen. It doesn't seem to affect me at all and I usually game with headphones on so don't hear it. But it is weird.


Just tried it. Seems normal to me.


----------



## Diogenes5

Ok, so I was finally able to get the microswitches out. It's been so long that I forgot what a giant pain in the ass it was. The D2F-01F Omrons fit and work perfect. They are too soft for the mouse wheel. I'll probably switch to 7N's for the mouse wheel. My side buttons are coming in mouser and I'll replace the side buttons too. Perfect Starcraft mouse almost achieved ...


----------



## jayfkay

those D2F-01F, are they actually easier to click/less distance than the regular ones? the 7ns (and the 7n 10M)?


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Just tried it. Seems normal to me.


Mine behaves just like this guy's:


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Ok, so I was finally able to get the microswitches out. It's been so long that I forgot what a giant pain in the ass it was. The D2F-01F Omrons fit and work perfect. They are too soft for the mouse wheel. I'll probably switch to 7N's for the mouse wheel. My side buttons are coming in mouser and I'll replace the side buttons too. Perfect Starcraft mouse almost achieved ...


Can you write a tutorial of some sort for swapping the switches. I'm planning to get either a FK or EC2 eVo and I expect to be swapping switches. If you don't have time, maybe a parts list and few pictures?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Mine behaves just like this guy's:


Oh, yeah that sounds annoying. Mine doesn't do that.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> those D2F-01F, are they actually easier to click/less distance than the regular ones? the 7ns (and the 7n 10M)?


Distance is about the same. Main difference is operating force. D2F-01F's require less force to actuate and have a "softer" feel which is good for high-apm. I prefer it exclusively for Starcraft. Some say that there is no difference between 7N and 01F's but I beg to differ. Some also think that 01F's are too soft and that 7N's are more tactile. To each their own.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> Can you write a tutorial of some sort for swapping the switches. I'm planning to get either a FK or EC2 eVo and I expect to be swapping switches. If you don't have time, maybe a parts list and few pictures?


I did a year ago. I did almost the exact same process for my Zowie EC2 Evo and posted it in the thread about changing microswitches (Just search overclock.net for "microswitches"). The process is easier since you don't need to buy triangle screwdrivers to open up the Zowie FK. You will have to jiggle the switches very firmly to get their loose after removing the solder though.


----------



## Pansar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I didn't notice it on my AM. But press the FK switches quickly with some force and listen. It doesn't seem to affect me at all and I usually game with headphones on so don't hear it. But it is weird.


I posted in this thread a while back and mentioned the same problem. I have since then returned the mouse and got a new one that doesn't sound the same. I haven't used this one as much though, so I can't say that it won't happen again, but so far so good.


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> I did a year ago. I did almost the exact same process for my Zowie EC2 Evo and posted it in the thread about changing microswitches (Just search overclock.net for "microswitches"). The process is easier since you don't need to buy triangle screwdrivers to open up the Zowie FK. You will have to jiggle the switches very firmly to get their loose after removing the solder though.


Awesome! I could only find the "swapping switches for dummies" (http://www.overclock.net/t/1216141/swapping-microswitches-for-dummies) which is for a g400. I don't expect the procedure to be any different, but can you post the link to your ec2 evo swapping goodness?







Thanks!

edit: found it. It's later in the same thread. Now I can't delete this post


----------



## Diogenes5

Here's some of my worklog of switching the Zowie FK's microswitches. (I changed the side buttons too)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





Disassembled and ready to go. Bye bye TTC and Huano switches!



To be replaced by the divine Japanese Omron D2F-01F



Here's the side buttons being switched out.




More views.



I just ripped the Huano's off their connectors because it was such a pain to get them off.



Then I realized I was a moron and had changed the wrong side buttons.



Took forever to get my own D2F-01F A's off but I did and then ripped off the other huanos too. Only the spikes of iron remained which I pulled off with a tweezer.



The soldering holes didn't empty cleanly so one set of switches didn't get all the way through. I couldn't for the life of me get rid of the solder to push it all the way through. It is at an angle. However, the mouse side buttons still function after jiggling so whatever.



Many Huanos were destroyed in the making of this mouse. Rest in pieces! (though most people won't have a problem with the ones Zowie used this time; they were quite soft similar to the Omron 7N's.



Fun Project, and getting rid of the right side buttons made my mouse a little bit lighter anyways. I did the tape mod to firm up the wheel a bit though mouse wheel clicks are a little annoying. I found that varying how much you tighten the 4 bottom screws on assembly affected the tactile feeling of the 2 main buttons and mouse wheel. I kept tightening and loosening screws until I got as close to the perfect tactility I desired. This bad boy is now a beast on all levels. Much lighter than my EC2 Evo but still wide enough to be stable for rapid clicking versus the AM.

The perfect mouse in every way after some work.


----------



## phl0w

Did that too. Since there are no hinges but screws that hold the assembly together, it's possible to kind of "adjust" the tactile feel of mouse 1-3 by playing around with different torque, mainly at the front. While the effect is so-so for the wheel-click, it can be huge for lmb+rmb. The tape trick does stiffen wheel click considerably so I tried different stages of torque for all screws. However, I didn't quite like the loose and softer feeling on mouse 1+2. Both buttons don't feel tight anymore but show a little play and the Huanos lose a lot of their distinct tactile feedback that I actually bought the mouse for (after 3090). So I ended up tightening the screws as much as to achieve that tight seat of both buttons again while loosening wheel click just a tad. Since I never ever use mouse 3 I prefer the tighter wheel scroll and signature Huano feel.
Well I wouldn't go as far as calling the mouse perfect. It is too low and slim to offer good support for all kind of grips. In my opinion it is also too light to be stable for high sens.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> It is too low and slim to offer good support for all kind of grips.


Agree.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> In my opinion it is also too light to be stable for high sens.


Do not agree. I think the mouse could be even lighter. Maybe it just requires an adjustment period for you.


----------



## discoprince

i just got mine and im really enjoying it so far

playing at 450dpi @ 125hz seems to be the best setting for me and on paint. drew nice smooth lines, no jitter on a red artisan hein L soft.

also the lift off is pretty damn near perfect for me.

needless to say for first impressions im impressed. still need more time with the mouse though.


----------



## PUKED

Same, I've had mine for a week and it's the best mouse I've used. Really impressed.

This is really the only thing I don't like about it:

It seems super nitpicky and weird that <2mm makes such a difference, but if I grip the FK the same way as the WMO it's hand destroying, and to get a comfortable grip I have to either hold it up further where it curves out or put my whole thumb flat against the side of the mouse. It's comfy once you get used to it, but as everyone's been saying it's definitely too thin.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> It indicates that the tracking is good, maybe even great.


Yeah it measures and feels really good to me. Just surprised because I got the impression reading about it that this sensor really didn't work well with the Talent.


----------



## popups

A millimeter or 2 does make a major difference.

The best thing Zowie could do is make two sizes like the EC and offer a white version. Also update the SROM and change to a standard lens.

If they did that, they would sell a lot more mice.


----------



## Skylit

Apart from multiple sizes, minor changes as so will not improve sales. Only selling point over current HW is higher DPI range.

To target a larger market, you need to promote unique features over competition. For Zowie, this is lift off distance.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Apart from multiple sizes, minor changes as so will not improve sales. Only selling point over current HW is higher DPI range.
> 
> To target a larger market, you need to promote unique features over competition. For Zowie, this is lift off distance.


Actually, there currently isn't a mouse with a perfect sensor that has the ambidextrous shape so that we can use it for both palm grip and claw/finger, and also with low weight and good grip and mouse cord. So LOD is not the only thing special about the zowie mice.

The other 3 mice I've heard of (g400, puretrak, roccat) that use the 3090 sensor are all palm grip only mice. I don't want to switch mice (or have to have a different mouse for each grip) when switching from cs 1.6 to sc2 so this is something important for me.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Actually, there currently isn't a mouse with a perfect sensor that has the ambidextrous shape so that we can use it for both palm grip and claw/finger, and also with low weight and good grip and mouse cord. So LOD is not the only thing special about the zowie mice.
> 
> The other 3 mice I've heard of (g400, puretrak, roccat) that use the 3090 sensor are all palm grip only mice. I don't want to switch mice (or have to have a different mouse for each grip) when switching from cs 1.6 to sc2 so this is something important for me.


I can palm, claw and fingertip the FK. the grooves on the mouse button clicks sort of make you hold the mouse in a certain way where my hand fell in either of those positions comfortably. Especially for palm grip which is not my natural style.
My grip is naturally claw.
I have decent sized hands also. I play lots of SC2 and DOTA.

Honestly the biggest issue I thought I would have with this mouse coming from a sensei was the side buttons on the right side. On the sensei I had to disable them in the software because when I clawed sometimes they would hit the buttons, I was worried about this with the FK because it has no software to do that function. I don't have this issue with the FK what so ever, my ring and pinky sit right below the buttons without me having to position them out of the way. Very nice.

I think saying that there isn't an ambi mouse with a "perfect" sensor (there is no such thing) varies per person. There just isn't 1 mouse that is the end all be all of mice. I've tried many, many in the past few months to be at this point (satisfied).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I can palm, claw and fingertip the FK.


That was the point I was trying to make in reply to the person saying LOD was the only thing special about the zowie mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I think saying that there isn't an ambi mouse with a "perfect" sensor (there is no such thing) varies per person. There just isn't 1 mouse that is the end all be all of mice. I've tried many, many in the past few months to be at this point (satisfied).


I meant "flawless" sensor, which is defined elsewhere. Yes, zowie's is one of the best currently available, bst's is supposed to be even better.
Yes, most gaming mice are crap and have one or more flaws, including all of SS and razer mice. That's why everyone's been so anxious about bst's mouse.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That was the point I was trying to make in reply to the person saying LOD was the only thing special about the zowie mice.
> I meant "flawless" sensor, which is defined elsewhere. Yes, zowie's is one of the best currently available, bst's is supposed to be even better.
> Yes, most gaming mice are crap and have one or more flaws, including all of SS and razer mice. That's why everyone's been so anxious about bst's mouse.


ill be grabbing one of those when they drop too but for now my excitement has been dampened.

regarding your first point, sorry, I must have misread.


----------



## Skylit

I said apart, which can be defined as being different. Referring to general design.

I'm sorry if I have to go against the crowd, but flawless is such a broad term. Regardless of the hype a specific sensor receives for being good, there are design choices and compromises being made around the model itself to ensure the consumer is happy with a product.

Whether it's a Deathadder or G400, each approach can be considered unique and have its own feel or general characteristics not present in other designs.

Of course shape is very important and I'm not disagreeing with that. I just don't believe the changes mentioned outside of shape/size will increase sales. Esp when your consumer base is split on needs.

I actually need to make a post reflecting something else thats rather important about such sensors.


----------



## PUKED

Would the EC2 or AM be decent for someone who's finding the FK annoyingly small to claw grip?

From the dimensions I could find they both seem closer to the WMO I was using.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Would the EC2 or AM be decent for someone who's finding the FK annoyingly small to claw grip?
> 
> From the dimensions I could find they both seem closer to the WMO I was using.


No. There is NO reason to buy the AM. Both mice are equally thin but the FK has much better shape for grip.

Oh, the EC2 I'm not sure. If you've ever used an IE 3.0 it's basically the same shape. You can see some problems I have with the 3.0/EC shape in my sig.


----------



## PUKED

Ok, thanks. I was hoping the extra height on the AM would make a difference, but I guess not.

EC2 it is. Looking through its thread a few people with IMOs and WMOs seem happy with it.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Would the EC2 or AM be decent for someone who's finding the FK annoyingly small to claw grip?
> 
> From the dimensions I could find they both seem closer to the WMO I was using.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No. There is NO reason to buy the AM. Both mice are equally thin but the FK has much better shape for grip.
> 
> Oh, the EC2 I'm not sure. If you've ever used an IE 3.0 it's basically the same shape. You can see some problems I have with the 3.0/EC shape in my sig.


Yep, AM is just outclassed now. It uses the older Huanos and has a very small tip so that the mouse is relatively unstable during rapid clicking as well. AM shape is ok for claw grippers but combined with the old huano's is not suited for anything other than FPS.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Ok, thanks. I was hoping the extra height on the AM would make a difference, but I guess not.
> 
> EC2 it is. Looking through its thread a few people with IMOs and WMOs seem happy with it.


I was using an EC2 before and it was great. Granted, it still uses the same crappy huanos inside the AM but the shell gives you more leverage so clicks are softer. Replacing the huanos with Omrons inside, my clicks were even softer than any other mouse I've modded with Omrons. It is a more finger-touch grip.

So basically the relative equivalent in sizes are -

Palm : Finger-touch : Claw - EC1 Evo : EC2 Evo : Zowie FK.

Was very happy with my EC2 but the FK is a lot better for my purposes since it is so light and small which is a big + for RTS play.


----------



## discoprince

i was worried about the FK's size comming from a Sensei, especially when people were talking about their hands cramping up using the FK.
my hand has cramped up on the sensei several times and has cramped up 0 times since ive had my FK (for about a week now).
its much more comfortable to hold and ive succesfully used it in the 3 grip styles (palm,claw,fingertip) without any discomfort.

i want to say my hands are on the larger side but for instance, my brother who's a lot bigger than i am, has hands that i would say were actually large and he likes the mouse also.

needless to say my search for the perfect mouse for me is over, i really love this thing. ill get a gloss version if they ever come out with that, its just what i prefer however i love whatever coating/plastic the FK is made out of. it looks like it would be a soft touch rubber in the pics but its really just a nice smooth hard plastic with the sides being a little more grippy.

thumbs up to zowie for this









also comming from the sensei the tracking is like night and day compared to the fk. the fk is so much better the lift off is amazing too (on a red artisan hien).

im primarly a RTS player (starcraft/dota) but play FPS and MMO's too. the mouse is great for each and everyone of those games, im not one of those MMO players who needs the training wheel mice with 1000 buttons on the side. ive optimized my hotkey and movement setup after about 10 years of playing mmo's.


----------



## scorpscarx

I just became aware that this existed, biggest thing being the taller on the top bit, I love my AM to DEATH my favorite mouse since IME 1.0, not sure I should get this though. I don't mind the weight, the size is perfect for me, and the shape is also perfect overall. I am pretty tempted just to check it out though lol.


----------



## Aimcu

What would be the best mouse pad for the zowie fk?
I have mine sitting on 2 bucks mouse pad and its kinda crap
Would appreciate any help


----------



## Raise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> What would be the best mouse pad for the zowie fk?
> I have mine sitting on 2 bucks mouse pad and its kinda crap
> Would appreciate any help


I've been running mine on a SteelSeries QcK+ since I got my FK a couple of weeks ago and it is smooth like butter. I want to grab a Vespula or another hard pad and give that a shot though.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raise*
> 
> I've been running mine on a SteelSeries QcK+ since I got my FK a couple of weeks ago and it is smooth like butter. I want to grab a Vespula or another hard pad and give that a shot though.


Looking forward for your small test
Has anyone tried that already?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> What would be the best mouse pad for the zowie fk?
> I have mine sitting on 2 bucks mouse pad and its kinda crap
> Would appreciate any help


Don't buy a "gaming" mouse pad. They're all a waste of money. Buy a supermat.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Don't buy a "gaming" mouse pad. They're all a waste of money. Buy a supermat.


The micro-machines guy says to not buy a gaming mouse pad.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> The micro-machines guy says to not buy a gaming mouse pad.


Id take anything MaximilianKohler says with a truck of salt when it comes to mousepads now, also looks like hes mainly here to advertise his youtube channel -.-

Dont buy a gaming mousepad, Dont buy a QcK for comfort, and good durability (which regular blue ones does not have at all, they fray so fast.)
Ive had my Everglide fnatic since.. late 2007 i think, and apart from the middle being dirty (and this, feels less smooth compared to the outer edges, fixed with a clean







) its been the best pad ive ever had, and yes.. ive had those old blue ones that he has in that video, and they were downright horrible

Now, i cant for sure know how his generic mousepads are, this is just my experience since i started gaming in '97 or so
Not to mention availability issues outside US, QcK is extremely cheap here in denmark ^^

(just saw his keyboard 'review' aswell.. which oh god, yeah.. im going to keep out of this before i say something i should not)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Id take anything MaximilianKohler says with a truck of salt when it comes to mousepads now, also looks like hes mainly here to advertise his youtube channel -.-


No I'm not. My channel is tiny and is not monetized. Those videos are made purely to help prevent people from wasting money and enabling them to make informed decisions on what gaming equipment to buy. A video review is the easiest way to pass information around without having to repeat yourself. Do you seriously think that everyone that makes videos like this https://www.youtube.com/user/Ramla777 only cares about channel views rather than simply making informative videos for the community? If you do, I personally think you're a ****ty person and probably vote right wing conservative.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Dont buy a gaming mousepad, Dont buy a QcK for comfort, and good durability (which regular blue ones does not have at all, they fray so fast.)


I've had mine for 3 years and it hasn't frayed. Yet the brand new puretrak I bought frayed the first time I washed it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> The micro-machines guy says to not buy a gaming mouse pad.


Micro-machines?


----------



## nlmiller0015

ramla reviews what wrong with them I think there alright Its your choice if want a gaming pad or not I bought the Qck heavy cause it was cheap and had it for about 4 years and it comfortable


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Micro-machines?


Because it sounded like you were talking twice as fast as a normal person in the video, it's probably before your time. 




Also, "right wing conservative" as some kind of sophomoric insult, seriously? Straight to the ignore list you go. You honestly expect people to take you seriously posting garbage like that?


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Because it sounded like you were talking twice as fast as a normal person in the video, it's probably before your time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, "right wing conservative" as some kind of sophomoric insult, seriously? Straight to the ignore list you go. You honestly expect people to take you seriously posting garbage like that?


I keep watching this dude (MaximilianKohler) post alot in this thread and others making poor recommendations and saying "gaming" gear is garbage, when most high end products are not, regardless of price.
He seems uninformed and entitled to "inform" others just because he thinks hes "good" at shooters and can tape up his IME3.0 and has a youtube channel.

Please take anything he says _smallest_ grain of salt and look to seek information from more educated posters.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> What would be the best mouse pad for the zowie fk?
> I have mine sitting on 2 bucks mouse pad and its kinda crap
> Would appreciate any help


Mines sitting pretty on an Artisan Hien L Soft Red
It glides and tracks on it like nothing I've ever used before.
If you can shell out the $$$ I highly recommend this pad and color for the Zowie FK.
They are also shipped flat, not rolled up. Got mine from Amazon in like 3 days.

I also use a Razer Goliathus Speed edition mouse mat thats the smallest size for when I go to LANs and LAN events (since the Hein is the biggest size)
It tracks like a boss on that also, so there is a cheaper alternative for you.

You could always QcK as well.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I keep watching this dude (MaximilianKohler) post alot in this thread and others making poor recommendations and saying "gaming" gear is garbage, when most high end products are not, regardless of price.
> He seems uninformed and entitled to "inform" others just because he thinks hes "good" at shooters and can tape up his IME3.0 and has a youtube channel.
> 
> Please take anything he says _smallest_ grain of salt and look to seek information from more educated posters.


Ha. You sound like a member of a gaming product company that's upset that people aren't just naively buying all the products you market to them. Oh no, you might have to actually make something gamers want & need that isn't riddled with problems instead of making "fancy" toys and telling gamers "you need this! It's great!"!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Also, "right wing conservative" as some kind of sophomoric insult, seriously? Straight to the ignore list you go. You honestly expect people to take you seriously posting garbage like that?


It's been confirmed that people who vote right wing are unable to empathize with others. Your assumption that everyone would only do this kind of thing for themselves rather than to be a part of a community and create and share things with others is what brought me to that conclusion. If you are unable to feel this sense of community and altruism yourself then you can't understand it when it comes from other people so you draw the most negative and cynical conclusions. Though, this isn't a politics forum so I apologize.


----------



## fengshaun

Has anyone had any experience with gamejava's returns and customer service? I'm torn between FK and the EC2 and want to try them both and keep the one I like more, returning the other. But gamejava owners didn't answer my question regarding their return policy and their "shipping and returns" link is broken! Any tips on where I can try them both before settling?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with gamejava's returns and customer service? I'm torn between FK and the EC2 and want to try them both and keep the one I like more, returning the other. But gamejava owners didn't answer my question regarding their return policy and their "shipping and returns" link is broken! Any tips on where I can try them both before settling?


I bought my FK from gamejava on ebay. They shipped it quickly, but when I first messaged them about the return they didn't respond for a while, but the 2nd time I messaged them they responded right away. I'm still waiting for them to receive the return and refund me though. Not sure what site you're looking at a GameJava item on, but on ebay it says their return policy right there "Returns: 14 days money back or item exchange, buyer pays return shipping"

I bought my AM on Amazon (they have the ECs there too), and they are always good with returns. But you'll have to pay return shipping if there's nothing wrong with the mouse. I think I lost ~15 on shipping (total because I got free shipping on both to me and only had to pay return shipping) for both mice.


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I bought my FK from gamejava on ebay. They shipped it quickly, but when I first messaged them about the return they didn't respond for a while, but the 2nd time I messaged them they responded right away. I'm still waiting for them to receive the return and refund me though. Not sure what site you're looking at a GameJava item on, but on ebay it says their return policy right there "Returns: 14 days money back or item exchange, buyer pays return shipping"
> 
> I bought my AM on Amazon (they have the ECs there too), and they are always good with returns. But you'll have to pay return shipping if there's nothing wrong with the mouse. I think I lost ~15 on shipping (total because I got free shipping on both to me and only had to pay return shipping) for both mice.


Thanks! I've been looking at gamejava.com. Looks like I'll be ordering ec2 from amazon and fk from gamejava then!


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I bought my FK from gamejava on ebay. They shipped it quickly, but when I first messaged them about the return they didn't respond for a while, but the 2nd time I messaged them they responded right away. I'm still waiting for them to receive the return and refund me though. Not sure what site you're looking at a GameJava item on, but on ebay it says their return policy right there "Returns: 14 days money back or item exchange, buyer pays return shipping"
> 
> I bought my AM on Amazon (they have the ECs there too), and they are always good with returns. But you'll have to pay return shipping if there's nothing wrong with the mouse. I think I lost ~15 on shipping (total because I got free shipping on both to me and only had to pay return shipping) for both mice.


76 bucks for a mouse??? thats cray.


----------



## Aimcu

About the mousepad I'm really confused
I got here like 9 comments about this topic and everyone says something else
I would like to get a clear answer about models like discoprince did
discoprince could you rank them?
The Japanese pad is too expensive for me
qck or the Goliaths or something else


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> About the mousepad I'm really confused
> I got here like 9 comments about this topic and everyone says something else
> I would like to get a clear answer about models like discoprince did
> discoprince could you rank them?
> The Japanese pad is too expensive for me
> qck or the Goliaths or something else


If you don't want to buy a artisan pad just buy a all black Qck+ or Qck heavy.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> About the mousepad I'm really confused
> I got here like 9 comments about this topic and everyone says something else
> I would like to get a clear answer about models like discoprince did
> discoprince could you rank them?
> The Japanese pad is too expensive for me
> qck or the Goliaths or something else






The value edition Artisans are not that expensive. If you are cheap, you can get a white or red QCK, if you do not mind the smaller size. Other than that, you have to stick with an all black pad, unfortunately.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> The value edition Artisans are not that expensive. If you are cheap, you can get a white or red QCK, if you do not mind the smaller size. Other than that, you have to stick with an all black pad, unfortunately.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> If you don't want to buy an artisan pad just buy an all black Qck+ or Qck heavy.


I live outside the U.S so amazon is off the table
So ebay is the only choice and the price in ebay is about 100 bucks quarter of my rent
Gonna buy it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steelseries-Qck-Mini-Red-Gaming-Mouse-Pad-Mice-Mat-Surface-Bulk-/121038412205?pt=US_Mouse_Pads_Wrist_Rests&hash=item1c2e7399ad
Hope its original
Anyone knows why they don't have the red model in their site?
Thanks for the help


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> The value edition Artisans are not that expensive. If you are cheap, you can get a white or red QCK, if you do not mind the smaller size. Other than that, you have to stick with an all black pad, unfortunately.


What is better about non-black surfaces? I remember something about LOD, but I forgot the explanation...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> What is better about non-black surfaces? I remember something about LOD, but I forgot the explanation...


There is two things. First being it does change LOD, either increases or decreases. The second is the frame rate of the sensor can reach the maximum more easily with lighter colors.

The sensor is designed for wavelengths that are considered red. It has the most responsivity in that range.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Anyone knows why they don't have the red model in their site?
> Thanks for the help


http://shop.steelseries.com/us/surfaces/steelseries-qck-red.html
http://shop.steelseries.com/en/surfaces/steelseries-qck-mass-white.html


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There is two things. First being it does change LOD, either increases or decreases. The second is the frame rate of the sensor can reach the maximum more easily with lighter colors.
> 
> The sensor is designed for wavelengths that are considered red. It has the most responsivity in that range.
> http://shop.steelseries.com/us/surfaces/steelseries-qck-red.html
> http://shop.steelseries.com/en/surfaces/steelseries-qck-mass-white.html


I`m here in the buy zone
which one is better?


----------



## phl0w

I can only imagine that the white one will be filthy after like a day of intense gaming.


----------



## PUKED

Here's some comparison shots of the WMO, EC2 and FK if anyone's interested:





It's hard to tell going by the pictures, but in terms of size it's EC2 > WMO >> FK since the FK actually feels a bit smaller than it looks. The Zowies also don't feel that much like the WMO despite their appearance since the front halves are pretty different, and the apex on the EC2 is more towards the front compared to the WMO which makes it fit the palm differently.

The EC2 is a pretty nice claw grip mouse, my only gripes with it are the weight (it feels noticeably heavier than the WMO and FK) and that it's on the bulky side and slightly tall in the front because of the ergo design. If you have largish hands I think it would be about perfect though.

(btw I grip like this and have average size hands, so ymmv)

But my favorite of the three is definitely the FK now that I can comfortably claw it how I want to after cramping my hand for three weeks- the build quality is all around a little better than the EC2 (especially the coating and scroll wheel, which are leagues better), my aim feels the most confident with smaller mice, and the sensor feels really nice and just _immediate_ (even more than the EC2 - no idea). WMO ergonomics are still better though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> About the mousepad I'm really confused
> I got here like 9 comments about this topic and everyone says something else
> I would like to get a clear answer about models like discoprince did
> discoprince could you rank them?
> The Japanese pad is too expensive for me
> qck or the Goliaths or something else


If you care about money buy this http://www.microcenter.com/product/201335/Supermat_Mousepad

If all you care about is having a "gaming" mouse pad then buy what ever light colored pad you like. The difference is extremely minimal. The only unique gaming mouse pad that I know of is the Razer Goliathus CONTROL pad. But that mousepad has other issues and is way overpriced.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> 76 bucks for a mouse??? thats cray.


yep


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Mines sitting pretty on an Artisan Hien L Soft Red
> It glides and tracks on it like nothing I've ever used before.
> If you can shell out the $$$ I highly recommend this pad and color for the Zowie FK.
> They are also shipped flat, not rolled up. Got mine from Amazon in like 3 days.
> 
> I also use a Razer Goliathus Speed edition mouse mat thats the smallest size for when I go to LANs and LAN events (since the Hein is the biggest size)
> It tracks like a boss on that also, so there is a cheaper alternative for you.
> 
> You could always QcK as well.


+1. I have the same Artisan pad in blue and it's the best mouse pad I've used.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*
> 
> +1. I have the same Artisan pad in blue and it's the best mouse pad I've used.


$40 for a mouse pad? LOL


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> $40 for a mouse pad? LOL


You can laugh but it's actually got a lot of qualities that I find worth it.

#1, great mouse pad feel, the texture is great and tracking is great.

#2, it has a 3 layer (iirc) design. This is FAR superior to any other mouse pad I've tried, as I've noticed any other mouse pad (like the QCK mass) would transfer vibrations from my speakers to the pad, thus producing weird jitter on my mouse. So I had to play with headphones only, now I can keep my music on the speakers and game happily.

#3, this is related to #2, but I really enjoy the sticky base. It makes the mouse pad literally not move from the desk, it has to be peeled up to be moved. It's a small nice feature, but it gives a certain, the computer is like this every time sense that I enjoy. Or I can use the mouse pad to calibrate the position of all my other components.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> $40 for a mouse pad? LOL












Before this gets ugly(er)..


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> $40 for a mouse pad? LOL


Show me a mouse pad that is pure/solid red, large, has high quality materials and is cheaper. I will buy a dozen of them if it exists.

Keep in mind this is a Japanese made mouse pad, not a Chinese/Taiwan made pad. So it will always will be more expensive than other pads.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If you care about money buy this http://www.microcenter.com/product/201335/Supermat_Mousepad


I have read that the handstands stink and cause dizziness.


----------



## jr92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Here's some comparison shots of the WMO, EC2 and FK if anyone's interested:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard to tell going by the pictures, but in terms of size it's EC2 > WMO >> FK since the FK actually feels a bit smaller than it looks. The Zowies also don't feel that much like the WMO despite their appearance since the front halves are pretty different, and the apex on the EC2 is more towards the front compared to the WMO which makes it fit the palm differently.
> 
> The EC2 is a pretty nice claw grip mouse, my only gripes with it are the weight (it feels noticeably heavier than the WMO and FK) and that it's on the bulky side and slightly tall in the front because of the ergo design. If you have largish hands I think it would be about perfect though.
> 
> (btw I grip like this and have average size hands, so ymmv)
> 
> But my favorite of the three is definitely the FK now that I can comfortably claw it how I want to after cramping my hand for three weeks- the build quality is all around a little better than the EC2 (especially the coating and scroll wheel, which are leagues better), my aim feels the most confident with smaller mice, and the sensor feels really nice and just _immediate_ (even more than the EC2 - no idea). WMO ergonomics are still better though.


THE FK looks like the closest thing to an actual WMO, I just ordered one last night. Will be interesting to test out

I really, really hate the dpi intervals on this mouse though... 1150??? Why not 800-900??? That seems to be the real middleground for mice, anything over really is not needed for competitive gaming, I don't get it.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Show me a mouse pad that is pure/solid red, large, has high quality materials and is cheaper. I will buy a dozen of them if it exists.


By large you mean the offered "Large" version I guess. Way too small for me for example.
Why the color red?
High quality materials on a mousepad ... are you even serious?
I had a Hayate pad and know what Artisan pads are made of firsthand. But I never bought them because of their "quality materials".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Keep in mind this is a Japanese made mouse pad, not a Chinese/Taiwan made pad. So it will always will be more expensive than other pads.


Their prices are a rip-off. Fullstop.


----------



## popups

@detto87

Do you know how much stuff costs in Japan? Why do you think Sony uses China now?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> I have read that the handstands stink and cause dizziness.


That's an issue with almost every single mouse pad. I'm pretty sure they spray them with something at the factory. My gigabyte, razer, puretrak, and qck pads have all had a distinctive smell to them out of the box. In fact, the only one I do not remember having a smell is the supermat. But it isn't an issue whatsoever as these are all washable pads... take some soap and water (you could even sprinkle baking soda - absorbs smells - on them overnight, or add a cup of baking soda to the wash with the pad) to them and it's not an issue anymore.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Show me a mouse pad that is pure/solid red, large, has high quality materials and is cheaper. I will buy a dozen of them if it exists.
> Keep in mind this is a Japanese made mouse pad, not a Chinese/Taiwan made pad. So it will always will be more expensive than other pads.


Why the hell would you want to buy a mousepad that uses more expensive materials? You buy stuff based off of how well it functions for what you need it for. Why red? I'm pretty sure any light solid color works equally as well. IE: pure blue.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> trollcat.jpg
> Before this gets ugly(er)..


So that's 3 of you that seriously think you need a $40 mousepad?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> By large you mean the offered "Large" version I guess. Way too small for me for example.
> Why the color red?
> High quality materials on a mousepad ... are you even serious?
> I had a Hayate pad and know what Artisan pads are made of firsthand. But I never bought them because of their "quality materials".
> Their prices are a rip-off. Fullstop.


I'm with this guy. You guys are insane buying into this "you need X gaming product because it uses such high quality materials" BS. The mechanical keyboard advertisers use the same ploy. People trying to get people to believe they need expensive stuff they don't piss me off.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm with this guy. You guys are insane buying into this "you need X gaming product because it uses such high quality materials" BS. The mechanical keyboard advertisers use the same ploy. People trying to get people to believe they need expensive stuff they don't piss me off.


I was about to agree about the mousepads (my only expensive one was a big hardpad, the Qpad HeatoN at 33€) I must say that mechanical keyboards are a different subject. To me the keys feel so much better than my old rubber domes. Especially at work where I have to type a lot. Of course some of these keyboards are overly expensive as well, but you can get good mechnicals for 50-60€ without the fancy bulls**t like LEDs and macros or whatever. Those are worth it imo.

Also regarding mousepads: Maybe the Artisan pads are worth the money because they are durable or just that good in terms of surface quality, but I won't spend 60€ just to try that while I'm perfectly happy with my 20€ pad.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Even $20 is ridiculous for a mousepad. $8 mousepad is all the vast majority of people need. The only other valid buy is the razer extended pad for quake players who use uber low sens.


----------



## ndrlol

I don't really agree on any front, peoples gaming set ups are all based on comfort and personal preference, say someone wants a pad with a quicker glide than that of a super mat. Also as far as mechanical keyboards are concerned the marketing came after a spike in demand for the product around 2010-11, and while they might be trying to appeal to the younger, more impressionable market with all the 'response time' **** as far as i can tell that isn't even the main selling point for the product. It's more about a quality of life and comfort upgrade where typing on a mechanical keyboard simply feels better than on a membrane keyboard, and when you spend a large fraction of your time typing or gaming its worth it for some people. IMO keep your opinions of what is and isn't ridiculous to yourself.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Maybe the Artisan pads are worth the money because they are durable


Unfortunately wasn't the case for me. My Hien wore out just as fast as my $7 super mat.


----------



## Berserker1

Supermat looks like those cheap sweat stained mouse pads from 2000. 8$ for it is too much

But I agree that these "gaming" mouse pads are overrated, especially qck

I have a4tech mp500 - 44x40cm, costs 6$, slightly faster compared to qck+ and glides good for 6 months, qck+ glide becomes horrible after a month.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> peoples gaming set ups are all based on comfort and personal preference, say someone wants a pad with a quicker glide than that of a super mat.


The differences are extremely minimal. You will get the same difference or greater from different mouse feet, yet mouse feet cost 1/8th the price of your average "gaming" mouse pad.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Even $20 is ridiculous for a mousepad. $8 mousepad is all the vast majority of people need. The only other valid buy is the razer extended pad for quake players who use uber low sens.


Nope, those $8 pads don't have the same surface as my NP+. Also most generic mousepads aren't big enough. This supermat might be, but that's not available in Germany.

Also you're always saying "for most people", of course this is true. Because most people only play casually, on high sens, have laggy setups anyway etc. For the enthusiasts on this forum who try to optimize past what normal people do these minor improvements are actually worth it.


----------



## Aimcu

I think we can all agree that the QCK red is a cheap substitute to the artisan
And the difference between both is minimal


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> I think we can all agree that the QCK red is a cheap substitute to the artisan
> And the difference between both is minimal


Probably, but the Qck is too small. Unless there's a new Qck+ or Heavy in red, but I don't think so.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The differences are extremely minimal. You will get the same difference or greater from different mouse feet, yet mouse feet cost 1/8th the price of your average "gaming" mouse pad.


Be my guest to plaster your arm/hand with mousefeet, because no matter what you do, you cant really change how the pad feels on your skin.

Also, no i wouldent give 40$ for a mousepad, but i can see why people who have the money would, they prefer some quality, which is fine with me as long its not pay for having some ugly ass print in the middle with text all over it because it -looks- nice









About keyboards.. i think someone already brought up that theyre just better to type on, and feels better, and then theres the added durability ( had mine since 06 now, feels like new still.







)

Im just waiting for you to make a post about how insane people would be to pay 60-70$ for the perfect mouse for them, which you wont because you're having issues finding the perfect mouse for you, just like i am (since my ime 3.0 keeps breaking lol







)
its the same with keyboards and mousepads, if the mousepad is comfy as ****, reliable, durable and great tracking, wouldent you pay a bit more to have something that lasts?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Be my guest to plaster your arm/hand with mousefeet, because no matter what you do, you cant really change how the pad feels on your skin.


LMAO. Wow. So now we're buying $40 mousepads because they feel nicer on our skin.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Also, no i wouldent give 40$ for a mousepad, but i can see why people who have the money would, they prefer some quality, which is fine with me as long its not pay for having some ugly ass print in the middle with text all over it because it -looks- nice


That's fine, but they should not be trying to tell other gamers that they need these expensive mouse pads to be good, or even that it would make any difference in their game play at all. It's purely about rich gamers wanting to spend money.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Im just waiting for you to make a post about how insane people would be to pay 60-70$ for the perfect mouse for them, which you wont because you're having issues finding the perfect mouse for you, just like i am (since my ime 3.0 keeps breaking lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> its the same with keyboards and mousepads, if the mousepad is comfy as ****, reliable, durable and great tracking, wouldent you pay a bit more to have something that lasts?


No, it's definitely NOT the same with keyboards and mousepads. The mouse is by far the most important tool in gaming. It is vastly more important than keyboard or mousepad. If there was a perfect mouse (3.0 accuracy, good LOD and high malfunction speed, good shape for both FPS and RTS, no button issues, good dpi steps, etc.) for me that was $100 I would probably buy it. I bought and tested both the Zowie AM and FK because I thought one of them might be that perfect mouse. But they were not, so I'm waiting on BST's mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, those $8 pads don't have the same surface as my NP+. Also most generic mousepads aren't big enough. This supermat might be, but that's not available in Germany.
> 
> Also you're always saying "for most people", of course this is true. Because most people only play casually, on high sens, have laggy setups anyway etc. For the enthusiasts on this forum who try to optimize past what normal people do these minor improvements are actually worth it.


Sorry, when I say "most people" I'm talking about the majority of competitive gamers. Casuals aren't even "gamers", they're just people who play games sometimes. The supermat is bigger than the $25 razer pads...

Yes, I'm one of those people who wants to optimize in various ways. That's why I tried so many different mice, mouse pads, and keyboards. When it comes to mouse pads the difference is basically non existent. And a lot of us aren't rich enough to throw money around on products just because they're made with high quality parts. So what I'm trying to do is inform the non-rich people that they should not bother with expensive mouse pads and spend their money somewhere else.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> LMAO. Wow. So now we're buying $40 mousepads because they feel nicer on our skin.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


People value stuff differently, -you- might be fine with a mousepad that feels like ****, or has insane drag, horrible glide and so on, some dont like it (personally i use about 15$ mousepads, currently a 5½ year old Everglide Titan, it has not frayed yet.)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> That's fine, but they should not be trying to tell other gamers that they need these expensive mouse pads to be good, or even that it would make any difference in their game play at all. It's purely about rich gamers wanting to spend money.


Same way you should not be telling others to buy a certain mousepad they might not like the feel of at all, if i could get a 2$ mousepad that was perfect for me, yes id take it over my 15$ mousepad, sadly there is none at this time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> No, it's definitely NOT the same with keyboards and mousepads. The mouse is by far the most important tool in gaming. It is vastly more important than keyboard or mousepad. If there was a perfect mouse (3.0 accuracy, good LOD and high malfunction speed, good shape for both FPS and RTS, no button issues, good dpi steps, etc.) for me that was $100 I would probably buy it. I bought and tested both the Zowie AM and FK because I thought one of them might be that perfect mouse. But they were not, so I'm waiting on BST's mouse.


Oh, so its not about how your mouse feels at all?, or how it performs?, surely not to the same extent, but the goal is still the same, get the best there is for -you-.
Ah, and the IME 3.0 has somewhat bad malfunction speed actually, its one of the few drawbacks of the mouse. (its about 1.6m/s perfect control, 2.40 m/s malfunction speed, starts to go a bit insane around 2.20 m/s), that is at 1000hz, the perfect control is lower at lower hertz

On BST's mouse, i hope you armed yourself with patience, it can take a while before you can get your hands on it


----------



## janaso

So red QCKs are good mouse pads for the FK. What about hard pads? I prefer hard surfaces with low friction. It would also be nice if the surface shaved a little bit off the FK's lift-off distance. Any suggestions?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So what I'm trying to do is inform the non-rich people that they should not bother with expensive mouse pads and spend their money somewhere else.


Fair enough then. It just came across differently.


----------



## detto87

After seeing my dusty Hayate and it's performance changing to that of an ordinary cloth mousepad (like QCKs and many others) I didn't see any point anymore in expensive mousepads.
For me the mousepad now is all about comfort, flexibility, comfort, gaming-usability and comfort.








So that's why I have this now: http://www.corepad.com/index.php?pagina=artikel&id=162
It covers my whole desk in width and leaves about 20cm room in depth for my monitor and some other stuff (soon there will be speakers). My desk is 120x80cm btw.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Why the hell would you want to buy a mousepad that uses more expensive materials? You buy stuff based off of how well it functions for what you need it for.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> I don't really agree on any front, peoples gaming set ups are all based on comfort and personal preference


I guess you guys kinda mean the same thing: people buy their stuff for different reasons and preferences.
We don't always agree on those though.
I can only share my experience with many mousepads over the years and found that after trying a huge pad like this, all the others are no options anymore.
To me the speed is perfect (probably because I grew up with a QCK cloth pad) and it has a nice balance of speed and friction.

I would never buy a mousepad because of "higher material quality" though, as that is pure marketing blabla.


----------



## jr92

I'm still not happy about the dpi intervals with this mouse, really pisses me off actually LOL.


----------



## Axaion

speaking of mousepads that comes in red or blue, how about the Zowie G-CM red?, i know its multi-color, but its two kinds of reds, so i doubt itll have any impact we can feel, and it seems quite cheap too.


----------



## Makav3li

I've been using Func pads for years. The Func XL works great with my Zowie AM and FK.


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> speaking of mousepads that comes in red or blue, how about the Zowie G-CM red?, i know its multi-color, but its two kinds of reds, so i doubt itll have any impact we can feel, and it seems quite cheap too.


This review says its OK. 




I know Neo uses the G-CM red with the FK. So I would say it's OK.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> This review says its OK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know Neo uses the G-CM red with the FK. So I would say it's OK.


Neo has stopped using it. He went back to using a Qpad or whatever it was.

The CM could be fine, but it does have different colors that can cause some "jitter" as you travel over them. I never had one. You have to test it yourself.


----------



## ZaG

Want to pull the trigger on this mouse! Coming form my G9x I have a couple quiestions.

1. If in the USA where the hell do you get this thing? It looks like no one has it! Amazon claims its unavailable?

2. Will this mouse work on my ICEMAT?? (Glass Mouse pad) I hope it does!

3. What is the quality of the feet of the mouse? (I want to know how often id have to change them because of my icemat....

EDIT: I found am website that sells it in the U.SA gamejava.com they want 17.99 for shipping no can do for a mice! That will make it close to 90 bucks not what I was looking to spend!

As usual any help would be great!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I bought mine from gamejava on ebay with free shipping. Though I returned it a while ago and they haven't processed the refund.


----------



## fengshaun

hmmm did gamejava just pull Zowie FK from Ebay?? I see no FK listings there! I was just gonna order it!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321127932377?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

EDIT: oh, I guess they sold out.
0 available / 32 sold


----------



## fengshaun

why is FK so rare? How long has it been out?


----------



## Xs1nX

I was very close to buying an FK yesterday, but then I hit the pages in this thread where people where talking about the squeaky mouse button issue. So now Id not be so sure ..


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> why is FK so rare? How long has it been out?


I getting the zowie for 60 bucks
from IVORY


----------



## fengshaun

Well, I'll be buying 4 mice (ec2 evo, deathadder, sensei raw, fk) and returning 3. But now the FK is giving me trouble.

What is Ivory? I can't find it!


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> Well, I'll be buying 4 mice (ec2 evo, deathadder, sensei raw, fk) and returning 3. But now the FK is giving me trouble.
> 
> What is Ivory? I can't find it!


All those mice are pretty different sensor and shape wise. Any reason in particular for doing that?


----------



## fengshaun

Yea, they are different, but the shape is the #1 concern for me. I do like the deathadder's shape, but I wish it were a bit smaller. I love the clicks, though. That's why I'm trying the ec2 evo, but I'm afraid the clicks might be too stiff for Starcraft spam clicks. I did kind of like the Sensei's shape too, but it was also a bit big and had way stiff clicks, hence the FK. But I'll just try Sensei (in a raw form) one last time before I move on because I really liked it for CS. So, the selection process will be: ergo or ambidextrous? stiffer clicks/smaller or easier clicks/bigger?

edit: I use ~1100 CPI for starcraft and ~400 CPI for CS, so all those mice have the proper steps. Also, by "a bit big" I mean a bit big for my claw/fingertip hybrid grip for starcraft. I use palm/claw for CS.

I hope this is not way offtopic! :S


----------



## Aimcu

Ivory isn't in America


----------



## fengshaun

Oh man, nobody carries the Zowie FK in the U.S. except gamejava and that comes with a $17 shipping cost for something I may or may not keep!


----------



## ZaG

I am in the same predicament! lol Its ridiculous! what is the shortage about?


----------



## Xicu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> Oh man, nobody carries the Zowie FK in the U.S. except gamejava and that comes with a $17 shipping cost for something I may or may not keep!


When u tested both send me your results please. I cant test them cuz im from Argentina and I'am concerned about the mouse buttoms since I play lol


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> When u tested both send me your results please. I cant test them cuz im from Argentina and I'am concerned about the mouse buttoms since I play lol


Sure thing, if I can get my hands on one!


----------



## Aimcu

Actually I can buy the mouse from Ivory and sent place him on ebay
And you can buy from me
Just write a proper price I don't mind helping you
Just for you know the mouse cost 60.44962 + shipping to USA idk how much


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Actually I can buy the mouse from Ivory and sent place him on ebay
> And you can buy from me
> Just write a proper price I don't mind helping you
> Just for you know the mouse cost 60.44962 + shipping to USA idk how much


Thanks a lot for your help, but 3Cworld just restocked the Zowie FK on amazon. I sent them an email asking when they expect to restock the FK and they responded within an hour with this:
Quote:


> Just re-stock in amazon. Please check it after 10 mins


@Xicu, the four mice (including the FK and EC2) will arrive next Friday at the earliest, just so you have an idea of when I'll be able to get back to you.


----------



## Xicu

Thx, Im gonna be waiting for your feedback.


----------



## popups

_Woops~! I think I lost my SteelSeries mouse. Shh~! Don't tell anyone..._


----------



## cadger

Hmm what pad is that? Looks too wide for a Qck.


----------



## ndrlol

ordered one on the gamejava site, didnt get any shipping details in an email and my status on the site has been payment made and 'processing' for the past 5 days... anyone else experience this? I already submitted a support ticket but not response to that either.
'


----------



## Xs1nX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xs1nX*
> 
> I was very close to buying an FK yesterday, but then I hit the pages in this thread where people where talking about the squeaky mouse button issue. So now Id not be so sure ..


Anyone have some feedback on this ? and also can I get some recommendations for medium/small not super expensive cloth or hybrid pads that will play well with the FK ?


----------



## jr92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> Hmm what pad is that? Looks too wide for a Qck.


its obviously a QcK heavy, looks exactly the same as mine sitting infront of me


----------



## jr92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> _Woops~! I think I lost my SteelSeries mouse. Shh~! Don't tell anyone..._


Lol 2g, who is that by the way? Can't really recognize from the pic

edit: nvm think thats kenny S from LDLC lol


----------



## Thr0wAway

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> Well, I'll be buying 4 mice (ec2 evo, deathadder, sensei raw, fk) and returning 3. But now the FK is giving me trouble.
> 
> What is Ivory? I can't find it!


After you do manage to buy them all could you post your thoughts?


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thr0wAway*
> 
> After you do manage to buy them all could you post your thoughts?


Yeah, I'll definitely report back! The mice will come on Friday July 5th at the earliest, and I'll test them for at least a week before deciding.


----------



## thorsteNN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> Lol 2g, who is that by the way? Can't really recognize from the pic
> 
> edit: nvm think thats kenny S from LDLC lol


its sf (superfighter) from LDLC.com


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xs1nX*
> 
> Anyone have some feedback on this ? and also can I get some recommendations for medium/small not super expensive cloth or hybrid pads that will play well with the FK ?


My FK didn't have that problem. I don't think we're sure yet what percentage of them have that issue.

If you care about money, size, and performance buy a supermat. If you don't care about money and just want to have a "gaming" mouse pad that you think looks nice then buy whatever plain & light colored mouse pad you want.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> My FK didn't have that problem. I don't think we're sure yet what percentage of them have that issue.
> 
> If you care about money, size, and performance buy a supermat. If you don't care about money and just want to have a "gaming" mouse pad that you think looks nice then buy whatever plain & light colored mouse pad you want.


Keep in mind that ordering from amazon might make the mousepad more expensive in some countries that a regular QcK or other 'cheap' gaming mousepads

But yeah, sure get the supermat if comfort is not an issue, or smell apparently, and if you want to save 5-10$
To each his own choice i guess :]


----------



## Xs1nX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> My FK didn't have that problem. I don't think we're sure yet what percentage of them have that issue.
> 
> If you care about money, size, and performance buy a supermat. If you don't care about money and just want to have a "gaming" mouse pad that you think looks nice then buy whatever plain & light colored mouse pad you want.


Trying to find a plain light coloured "known good" pad is harder then it would appear by all accounts(and by that mean something I can get a decant amount of feedback via googling that it doesn't suck and better still is known to work with the FK..)

The Supermat is out, I am in the UK and its impossible to source it here as I have tried before.

QCK Red does not seem to exist in retail channels at all in the UK. Which I do not understand as QCK's for the most part are everyware.

Zowie CM Red: Id be wary of it as it has a logoed design across the whole matt, also can only get the G version which is to large.

Puretrak Talent: To large, smaller version is a black pad.

Having a mouse whose sensor prefers a light coloured pad when black is far and away the most common colour for a pad actually seems really realy dumb and Id love to know what the thinking of is behind this.


----------



## jr92

What difference will I have between 450 dpi on this mouse and 1150? I'm using 800 on my Sensei atm and any more dpi on this mouse really seems to sensitive, I know the cm/360 is the same with adjusted sensitivity but it does have a very different feel to it, suggestions? I also heard 1150 is more like 1200, if that is the case it might not be so bad seeing as my true dpi is 1200 1 sensitivity.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> What difference will I have between 450 dpi on this mouse and 1150? I'm using 800 on my Sensei atm and any more dpi on this mouse really seems to sensitive, I know the cm/360 is the same with adjusted sensitivity but it does have a very different feel to it, suggestions? I also heard 1150 is more like 1200, if that is the case it might not be so bad seeing as my true dpi is 1200 1 sensitivity.


I wouldn't worry about that too much. You can reduce the windows slider without major problems. http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization & http://www.users.on.net/~frankros/DPI-calc.php

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> But yeah, sure get the supermat if comfort is not an issue, or smell apparently, and if you want to save 5-10$
> To each his own choice i guess :]


At 10$ more you're more than doubling the price of a mousepad. So I'd say that's pretty significant, especially keeping in mind that many gamers are young and in school so they do not have tons of money to throw around mindlessly.
Comfort? So you're recommending a specific mousepad that is thick and soft and has a silky feel? Is that the same one that costs $50+?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xs1nX*
> 
> The Supermat is out, I am in the UK and its impossible to source it here as I have tried before.


What about this one? http://www.amazon.com/Allsop-Mouse-Pad-Raindrop-Blue/dp/B000XUW8IY

Also, I forget which video it was but I'm pretty sure one of the reviews that was done with the light pink zowie mousepad that had the white zowie logo across it said the mouse tracked fine on that one regardless of the big logo across it. So it looks like as long as the whole pad is made of light colors rather than dark ones it should be fine.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> At 10$ more you're more than doubling the price of a mousepad. So I'd say that's pretty significant, especially keeping in mind that many gamers are young and in school so they do not have tons of money to throw around mindlessly.
> Comfort? So you're recommending a specific mousepad that is thick and soft and has a silky feel? Is that the same one that costs $50+?


No, i prefer a pad that is not sandpaper, i dont care that you like sandpaper, but i dont want to use it as a mousepad, and ill gladly skip 1-2 drinks, or 3 candy-bars to get something thats actually good.
As i said, its fine you like the pad, But man, you sound like a door seller that just wont bug off :\


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> No, i prefer a pad that is not sandpaper, i dont care that you like sandpaper, but i dont want to use it as a mousepad, and ill gladly skip 1-2 drinks, or 3 candy-bars to get something thats actually good.
> As i said, its fine you like the pad, But man, you sound like a door seller that just wont bug off :\


Like I said before, I don't like people trying to make others think they need something they don't. I don't even particularly like this pad, it's just the cheapest large mouse pad out there and it works just as good or better than all the other "gaming" mouse pads out there that cost 2-4 times the price.

The supermat is no more like "sandpaper" than any other gaming mouse pad I've used. The razer control pads are significantly rougher yet it clearly isn't a problem for people who buy those.

Of all the pads I've tried I would say the puretrak talent has the nicest feeling of it's surface, but that really seems like a ridiculous thing to look for in a mousepad unless you also buy $1000 silk bed sheets or have the delicate skin of a new born baby.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Like I said before, I don't like people trying to make others think they need something they don't. I don't even particularly like this pad, it's just the cheapest large mouse pad out there and it works just as good or better than all the other "gaming" mouse pads out there that cost 2-4 times the price.
> 
> The supermat is no more like "sandpaper" than any other gaming mouse pad I've used. The razer control pads are significantly rougher yet it clearly isn't a problem for people who buy those.
> 
> Of all the pads I've tried I would say the puretrak talent has the nicest feeling of it's surface, but that really seems like a ridiculous thing to look for in a mousepad unless you also buy $1000 silk bed sheets or have the delicate skin of a new born baby.


Youre one of those people, just so you know ^^

I currently use a Everglide Titan, and its alot less rough than my old QcK+ was, which is nice.

If i didnt know better you earn money per pad sold.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Seriously? You think a generic mouse pad maker would hire someone to go on a forum to advertise their mousepad?

First of all, if they paid a significant enough amount for someone to want to spend all their time doing that, there is no way that the amount of increase in sales would be enough to cover it.

Secondly, that is a terribly inefficient way to advertise.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Youre one of those people, just so you know ^^


Oh? Which product am I trying to make people buy that they don't actually need? The only products I recommend are the ones in my signature which I decided on after many many years of testing many many different products.

I wish there was someone like me that I came across earlier so I wouldn't have had to waste so much money trying so many different products. And so I want to be that person for others.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Seriously? You think a generic mouse pad maker would hire someone to go on a forum to advertise their mousepad?
> 
> First of all, if they paid a significant enough amount for someone to want to spend all their time doing that, there is no way that the amount of increase in sales would be enough to cover it.
> 
> Secondly, that is a terribly inefficient way to advertise.
> Oh? Which product am I trying to make people buy that they don't actually need?


Wow, im going to get an infraction for this, but right now i dont care.
first, Yes, they hire all sorts of people to spam forums and such to get their crap sold, i regard it as spam, you might not be one of those, but you seem to be incapable of noticing that there is no one that agrees with you, no one wants your favorite mousepad, and yet you keep spamming about it, as if people wouldent have noticed the 10 other times you -tell- people to buy it.

So yes, i agree its a terrible inefficient way to advertise.

If you havent guessed on what youre trying to make people buy that they dont want nor need, then im sorry.
but heres a hint, its a blue mousepad, and you might have heard of it, its called a supermat. or something, i heard theres this guy on a forum spamming others to buy it, even if they would rather just use 10 bucks more, which is NOT significant unless you're extremely poor, and if youre that poor, go collect 20 bottles and get the pledge back from them so you can get yourself something nice.

There is aesthetics to items aswell, its fine that you ignore them, some dont, I got a Orange and white mousepad, but i like the feel of the glide, and it dosent cause discomfort after very long gaming sessions or anything.

So there you have it, youre shilling really hard for a mousepad nobody wants, and people have tried to tell you nicely without doing what im doing right now, so stop trying to 'force' people to buy it, im even sure i saw a comment removed or deleted by the user himself, not sure which.

Regardless, You can act all high and mightly for all i care, i will not buy your favorite mousepad, and i will not recommend it to others, and when they ask why, ill tell them to go have a look at your posts, that will tell them all they need to know..

To mods; Im sorry about that, and i totally understand if you give me a post ban for some time, But ive had enough of this guy trying to force that crap on others.
Edit2; im not going to respond to a talking doorframe anymore, so go spam to your hearts content.
Gentlemen.


----------



## fengshaun

But...but...I thought this was the Zowie FK thread!


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> But...but...I thought this was the Zowie FK thread!


It is, and im sorry for going off-topic.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

You're right, this is the FK thread so I'll end the mouse pad discussion with this - people are asking what mousepad to buy, and I'm telling them what mousepad is large enough, is light and plainly colored, and is cheap and works as well or better than every other "gaming" mouse pad. It's exactly the mousepad that the majority of gamers who need for a large mouse pad are looking for.

You sound exactly like a person who works for a gaming peripheral company who tries to sell high price, low functional items to gamers just because they look snazy, and you're mad at me for showing people it's all marketing hype and they don't actually need all that crap.

If I was really being paid by them to advertise their mouse pad don't you think I'd be doing it in the mouse pad forum rather than a thread for a specific mouse? In fact, just to spite you I'm going to go post about this mouse pad in the mouse pad forum.


----------



## Skylit

I like my "gaming" pads.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In fact, just to spite you I'm going to go post about this mouse pad in the mouse pad forum.


wait ... there's a mousepad forum?


----------



## Ino.

To get back OT: My first impressions of the FK

My FK arrived today and while I only got a few minutes to do desktop test with it I must say I'm heavily impressed with the coating and build quality. The feel is really nice, and although I expected it to be as uncomfortable for my pinky as the Savu it really isn't, because unlike the Savu the FK is wide enough at the back to be held by the palm section of the pinky instead of the fingertip. Also the side buttons are placed in a way that makes it easy for me to reach them on the left side (with my thumb) while they don't get in the way on the other side at all. On the right side they sit right in between my fingers. I remember other ambitextrous mice where I'd constantly click the buttons on the right, that was annoying. Also my concern that it would be terrible to grip with dry hands fortunately turned out to be unnecessary. Thumbs up to Zowie for that.

The sensor unfortunately seems to only reach my desired tracking speeds on 2300 dpi, which is ok, but I'd actually like it to be less for desktop. And I hate switching between desktop and game dpi. But that is just a minor inconvenience. For mousepads I only tried the Steelseries NP+ and the Puretrak Talent with it. Normally the NP+ gives better cursor precision while the talent gives better tracking speed. With the FK the speed was actually the exact same for both, I only managed to get higher speeds in Enotus on the Talent by chance on many tries. If I'd repeat that test with two or three single fast swipes it would be the exact same as the NP+. Funny enough the cursor precision seemed to be better on the Talent this time. The reason might be that it is lighter because of the blue pattern? I don't know. Going to test with other pads once I have time for that. Oh, all test on 1000 Hz until now.

Testing in-game will have to wait till tonight







I'll report back when I have tested it for an extended amount of time.

here are my results so far:


Spoiler: Enotus Test






http://imgur.com/uUy4nD5





http://imgur.com/mGGwkCz





http://imgur.com/1WUYsfu





http://imgur.com/mmSmeLO





http://imgur.com/dQETmwG





http://imgur.com/IxSjDBC





My gut feeling for the FK so far is: awesome.


----------



## toatoa

Just got my FK, it's almost perfect, only the middle is not wide enough, if they made the sides at the middle of the mouse wider like the AM and not concave in so much it would have the perfect shape.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toatoa*
> 
> Just got my FK, it's almost perfect, only the middle is not wide enough, if they made the sides at the middle of the mouse wider like the AM and not concave in so much it would have the perfect shape.


Uh... what? The FK isn't thinner than the AM, and if you like the shape of the sides of the AM then why not just use the AM?


----------



## popups

He likes the shape but the area where your thumb goes is to thin. Like 56mm, whereas the AM is 58. A larger version of the FK would be very nice.


----------



## jr92

This mouses 450 dpi is no where near 450, on mine it's 500. I tested it cm/360


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> This mouses 450 dpi is no where near 450, on mine it's 500. I tested it cm/360


Yup. That is why Enotus gives you a false malfunction speed. Anyway, I like 500 CPI over 450. Most people don't use 1 sensitivity and 400-450 CPI.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I agree that a wider and taller FK would be much better, but the AM is not wider than the FK overall. It's only wider at the bottom, IE: triangle/tent shape. Both mice are thin enough to cramp the hand.

If he means that instead of making the base of the mouse thinner to create the grip shape, that if they would have instead increased the wideness towards the top to result in the same shape, then I agree. That's what they should have done.

If BST's mouse has issues and zowie releases a larger version of the FK, then that'll likely be the best available mouse for the foreseeable future.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yup. That is why Enotus gives you a false malfunction speed. Anyway, I like 500 CPI over 450. Most people don't use 1 sensitivity and 400-450 CPI.


1 sensitivity? In which game?

Also, the 450DPI setting on the FK is definitely faster than the IE 3.0, so yeah, either the FK has 500DPI or the 3.0 has 400.


----------



## Raise

I disagree with a wider/taller FK. I prefer a claw grip and this thing is 100x more comfortable than my Deathadder and G500. I'm 5'11" so I have average-sized hands and they have never even felt the slightest bit cramped on this mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raise*
> 
> I disagree with a wider/taller FK. I prefer a claw grip and this thing is 100x more comfortable than my Deathadder and G500. I'm 5'11" so I have average-sized hands and they have never even felt the slightest bit cramped on this mouse.


You cannot claw a wider mouse? People claw the wider Sensei.

I palm grip. So the AM and FK are on the to thin side for me. I don't curl my thumb because I use the side buttons intensely. When I AWP I use the side button to switch guns faster.

Since Zowie has discontinued the AM-GS, why don't they bring out a white FK already? They said people only want full rubber coating or full glossy, but there is no full gloss FK. Also doesn't the EC1 sell more than the EC2? So why not a FK1 and FK2? Maybe it is because there has been staff changes....


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I agree that the deathadder is a terrible shape.

I personally use finger, claw, and palm grips, depending on which game I play. So for me it's important that 1 mouse can be held in all 3 grips. The FK & AM are too thin for palm grip.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe it is because there has been staff changes....


Has there? Or is that just a random hypothesis?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Has there? Or is that just a random hypothesis?


No it isn't.

I think that is why people are having trouble with customer service lately.


----------



## fengshaun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I agree that the deathadder is a terrible shape.


I love the deathadder's shape. It would have been perfect for me had it been just a tad bit smaller.


----------



## jr92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yup. That is why Enotus gives you a false malfunction speed. Anyway, I like 500 CPI over 450. Most people don't use 1 sensitivity and 400-450 CPI.


Yeah, I also noticed 1150 was 1250. Not sure about 2300


----------



## maxskater

So my FK came in today, here are the first impressions:

Sensor is absolutely flawless, I didn't notice any higher jitter on my QCK+ Fnatic than on QCK+ black
Although I prefer glossy mice, this kind of rubber is not so bad
It's definitely smaller than the AM, but the back of the mouse feels wider
Switches are lighter than on the AM, they feel slightly less tactile, same goes for the wheel
Side buttons are perfectly positioned, imo they feel better than on the AM
MMB is hard to press
LOD is definitely lower than on the AM, but this may be true just for my FK, since the sensor and lens are supposed to be the same. My LOD is like 0,5-1mm

Couldn't find charger for my camera, so I just took some comparison shots with the IMO 1.1 with my cellphone


----------



## cadger

Anyone try the 1.1/3.0 IM mouseskates on a FK? I wonder if it changes the glide for the better.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Yeah, i have tried that with my AM (the standard grey wmo ones). The result was bad, because the mouse did not detect the surface anymore. I am not sure whether Zowie has changed something AM->FK, or it was only my AM.


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Yeah, i have tried that with my AM (the standard grey wmo ones). The result was bad, because the mouse did not detect the surface anymore. I am not sure whether Zowie has changed something AM->FK, or it was only my AM.


That sucks to hear. I was about to try it. I tried a pair of speedy skates on top of the ones that come with the FK and it just wouldn't track. I assume the reason the skates are so thin is because of the LOD.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Yes. A too low LOD is so much worse than a high.









Edit: LOL, actually the glide was better, because the wmo skates rock!


----------



## cadger

So I gave it a shot. It seems to be working great on the QCK Heavy. On the Soft Hien and Soft Hayabusa the base seems to scratch a little bit more than before. The glide feels great though, if you have a extra pair of skates I would give it a shot. The glide seems a bit slower and the mouse doesn't move much when I flick it. LOD seems the same.

These are the feet I used btw
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007KAJY0A/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Jalal

I'm curious about this for a time now. I've read two times that the AM would be bad at tiny cursor movements. Could someone test that with the FK please?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> I'm curious about this for a time now. I've read two times that the AM would be bad at tiny cursor movements. Could someone test that with the FK please?


It depends on what you're talking about. I don't think the "inaccuracy" of the FK can be measured with current software. IF what you're talking about is what you feel when you try to do something that takes minute and accurate movement, IE: selecting text in windows environment or finding an accurate sensitivity in a FPS game, then yeah, I've noticed it and other people who've posted reviews (amazon) have as well.

Previously I thought this problem was due to correction because I only experienced it with mice that had correction, IE: Deathadder & mx518. And I didn't experience it with the IE 3.0 or razer copperhead. However, the AM and FK aren't supposed to have correction but some of us still experience this seeming inaccuracy with these 3090 sensor mice as well.

But as far as things like skipping or other things we can definitely see and measure, no, there is none of that with this mouse.


----------



## CorruptBE

It was mentioned in the video of that Logitech guy. It feels like the threshold before movement is being registered is to high, needs to be lower imo.

Had the same issue with the CM Storm Recon.


----------



## Axaion

Well damn, and here i was, hoping to replace my IME 3.0 with a A3090 sensor mouse, was even willing to buy a new pad for it, lol.


----------



## Ino.

I didn't experience any pronounced trouble with pixel walk...? Feels like any other mouse I used recently.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I didn't experience any pronounced trouble with pixel walk...? Feels like any other mouse I used recently.


I agree. I didn't notice anything. Maybe people are testing that with the mouse touching the surface. Of course when you have static friction you will think you are moving the mouse when you are actually not. Also they may be using a really dark surface... Now if you are using the "450" setting you may actually be experiencing latency from the scaling of the native step which is 1800/2300. This is why I use the "2300" step.


----------



## Ino.

I'm fine even on the 450 step on a black mat, but I only have a 60 Hz screen, so that might be why. 2300 on the other hand felt to jittery at times ( not that much on the dark pad, but on the talent it was jitter hell)


----------



## Jalal

Okay, thank you all.


----------



## jr92

Had to switch back to my Sensei, the shape of this FK is unbearable for me. It forced my hand into an awkward position and the mouse 1/2 finger imprint buttons are annoying as hell. And by forcing my hand into an awkward position I literally mean I couldn't do a 360 straight without moving my mouse on an angle. It's also made for a chinese girl it's that tiny


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> It's also made for a chinese girl it's that tiny


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/580_20#post_19898794


----------



## maxskater

I've find the mouse to be too fast on my QCK+ and hard to control... Could you recommend any other (large and cloth) mousepad? I've been thinking about Zowie G-TF, Zowie G-CM and SS NP+. How do these compare to QCK+ in terms of speed? Please don't even bother with the Supermat. Also Artisan is not available where I live.


----------



## Tsubakii

Does the FK really have pixel walk or input lag at 450 dpi?

I'm pretty sensitive to lag, I can feel the difference between my 120hz acer GD235HZ that has 1 frame of lag and my CRT/BenQ xl2420t

I also play with 450 dpi/2.25 sensitivity(idtech) on a qck+ heavy

don't feel any lag between my deathadder/wmo/g400 and I use hidfusb to keep my polling rate at 500hz (the polling rate is inconsistent if I don't force 500hz)


----------



## Tsubakii

Does the FK really have pixel walk or input lag at 450 dpi?

I'm pretty sensitive to lag, I can feel the difference between my 120hz acer GD235HZ that has 1 frame of lag and my CRT/BenQ xl2420t

I also play with 450 dpi/2.25 sensitivity(idtech) on a qck+ heavy

don't feel any lag between my deathadder/wmo/g400 and I use hidfusb to keep my polling rate at 500hz (the polling rate is inconsistent if I don't force 500hz)

And I have some d2f-01f or 7n switches I could solder into this mouse, would it make it too light? it seems like they modified the shell to make the huano switches feel lighter and it might be too light for omrons


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxskater*
> 
> I've find the mouse to be too fast on my QCK+ and hard to control... Could you recommend any other (large and cloth) mousepad? I've been thinking about Zowie G-TF, Zowie G-CM and SS NP+. How do these compare to QCK+ in terms of speed? Please don't even bother with the Supermat. Also Artisan is not available where I live.


Steelseries NP+ is more of a control mat with a rough surface. I love it for that good control. But it is discontinued, so you might have trouble finding one.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raise*
> 
> I disagree with a wider/taller FK. I prefer a claw grip and this thing is 100x more comfortable than my Deathadder and G500. I'm 5'11" so I have average-sized hands and they have never even felt the slightest bit cramped on this mouse.


Agreed. Some people state things like "it's narrow enough to cramp the hand" , but everyone has a different anatomy and a different way they like to hold the mouse. These kind of general statements should be taken with a grain of salt. At the very most, you can say that it is not comfortable for a lot of people. Though the feedback I have seen of the FK has been way more positive (regarding shape) than that of the AM.

I am a large guy with large hands, and I actually prefer smaller mice. I really like the shape of the Sensei, but that of the FK also works well for me. Mice I do not like shape-wise are the Deathadder or the Logitech G-series mice. Just goes to show that there is no such thing as one size fits all when it comes to mice.


----------



## dakU

Question. After 3 years I'm finally retiring my G9X and going to give the FK a try. My only problem is that I'm used to 600DPI with the G9X, and to my understanding, there is no option for custom DPI with the FK.

Is there a way to set the FK to a custom DPI using another driver perhaps? or do I have to use the default DPI settings?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Damn, I just bought a Zowie AM a while ago. I much prefer the concave, WMO - like, sides of the new FK. That's depressing; zowie mice are so expensive.


----------



## Spandy87

I can't find the Zowie FK in Canada anywhere. The only place that has it is canadacomputers but it's in store only









any thoughts?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> I can't find the Zowie FK in Canada anywhere. The only place that has it is canadacomputers but it's in store only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any thoughts?


Go find a Canada Computers?

Zowie products are really hard to find here.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Go find a Canada Computers?
> 
> Zowie products are really hard to find here.


canadacomputers is only out east. I live in Vancouver


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> canadacomputers is only out east. I live in Vancouver


Have an internet friend buy you one and ship it to you? I am planning on doing that if there is ever a microcentre sale on a CPU I want.


----------



## Spandy87

contrary to popular belief, not all people in canada know each other unfortunately.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> contrary to popular belief, not all people in canada know each other unfortunately.


Yes we do. You're that tall guy with the glasses, aren't you?


----------



## Ino.

After playing with the FK for one week now, including two long 6h sessions on the weekend I can say that the FK has succesfully taken the place as my main mouse. Performance wise I see no difference in-game compared to the Savu, but the shape of the FK doesn't give me pain in my pinky after extended use.

I also feel no input lag at 450 dpi contrary to what others seem to experience. Max tracking speed is also fine being around 3.2 m/s on 450dpi and 500 Hz. It would be a bit higher on 2300 dpi, but then it'd get slightly jittery even on the NP+ (and a lot on the Talent) so I stick with 450. The LOD is extremely low as anyone already knows, but that didn't trouble me at all. I was afraid I'd get skipping from lifting it just a bit while swiping, but apparently I don't do that. I think after getting used to that low LOD it will be hard to get used to a higher LOD again.
Gripwise palming it is fine for my, this is the first ambidextrous mouse for me where I actually have no problems at all with the sidebuttons on the right side, they are between my fingers and I don't even notice them. The surface feels good, I like the coating/material a lot more than the grainy one on the Savu. Build quality in general seems very good on the one I got.

I actually like the Huano switches in the FK, granted I only play FPS. They don't feel hard to press though, so I think I would be fine with them for anything.

The scroll wheel is probably the only thing I'd like to have exchanged, because I don't use the scroll wheel for gaming at all other than pressing it. So the scrolling for me only is important for browsing etc. and there it is kind of tiring because of the big indents/low scrolling speed. Minor issue though.

Another thing I was worrying about was the thin mousefeet, because I had a lot of trouble with my Abyssus where the mouse would scratch the pads somehow. The FK however glides smoothly on any pad I tested it on (Qck+, Talent, NP+), perfect for me. The cable is probably the best I've seen in a long time on any mouse (this is my first Zowie...), much prefer this to braided ones and it is also more flexible than the ones on Logitech mice (G400, G100s).

This is pretty much the mouse I was wishing for, the complete package. I even love the looks of it, clean and simple, without flashy LED bull**it, and that black and yellow just looks nice.


----------



## jr92

After all the Zowie FK hype i was pretty disappointed, my sensei is better. When will some one make a better mouse than the sensei with the same shape and customization??? zZz...


----------



## Spandy87

Sensei is too big though


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> Sensei is too big though


***... isn't the Sensei the same size as the xai? The xia is NOT big... if anything it's on the small side...

I remember the xai being too low at the right front of the mouse where you rest your ring finger on the side. Also it had a contour on the right side of the mouse that hindered my grip there and cramped my hand.

Also, I found this program works good for anyone who's frustrated with the slow scrolling of the FK/AM http://www.sevenforums.com/free-developer-programs-projects/80667-accelerated-scrolling-large-pages.html


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> After all the Zowie FK hype i was pretty disappointed, my sensei is better. When will some one make a better mouse than the sensei with the same shape and customization??? zZz...


The Sensei has a much less realistic acceleration curve than the FK. It is somewhat noticeable if you are at a low sensitivity.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> ***... isn't the Sensei the same size as the xai? The xia is NOT big... if anything it's on the small side...
> 
> I remember the xai being too low at the right front of the mouse where you rest your ring finger on the side. Also it had a contour on the right side of the mouse that hindered my grip there and cramped my hand.
> 
> Also, I found this program works good for anyone who's frustrated with the slow scrolling of the FK/AM http://www.sevenforums.com/free-developer-programs-projects/80667-accelerated-scrolling-large-pages.html


the FK is longer than the sensei (slightly) but not as wide and not as high (I think)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> After all the Zowie FK hype i was pretty disappointed, my sensei is better. When will some one make a better mouse than the sensei with the same shape and customization??? zZz...


Can I have your FK?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Sensei has a much less realistic acceleration curve than the FK. It is somewhat noticeable if you are at a low sensitivity.


What?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> *The Sensei has a much less realistic acceleration curve than the FK.* It is somewhat noticeable if you are at a low sensitivity.


Are you saying the FK has acceleration issues? We know Sensei/Xai does...


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Are you saying the FK has acceleration issues? We know Sensei/Xai does...


no he's saying that the FK is MORE realistic than the Sensei


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Damn, I just bought a Zowie AM a while ago. I much prefer the concave, WMO - like, sides of the new FK. That's depressing; zowie mice are so expensive.


You could just buy a FK, if it ever breaks down you can replace the internal parts with that of your AM and slap on some new mouse feet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think internally, the FK and AM are usuing the same components.

I've refurbished alot of MX510's with MX518 parts like this back in the day.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Weight: 102 grams


This always scared me more than the accel on the Sensei. In my experience once you go past 90g or so mice start feeling pretty sluggish for finger/claw.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> This always scared me more than the accel on the Sensei. In my experience once you go past 90g or so mice start feeling pretty sluggish for finger/claw.


couldnt agree more. for finger/claw the sensei just doesn't seem well thought out. Too wide, too big, too heavy, and less than ideal sensor = no TY.

The FK on the other hand....


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> couldnt agree more. for finger/claw the sensei just doesn't seem well thought out. Too wide, too big, too heavy, and less than ideal sensor = no TY.


I wonder why everyone uses claw grip with it and why did SteelSeries make the side profile for a claw grip user?


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I wonder why everyone uses claw grip with it and why did SteelSeries make the side profile for a claw grip user?


no claw grip is probably the best way to use it, I'm just saying if they're designing a claw grip mouse, who not make it a better shape for claw grip. I think they want to target a wider variety of players.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Are you saying the FK has acceleration issues? We know Sensei/Xai does...


No mouse has a 100% accurate acceleration curve, but the ADNS 3090 (FK) is superior to the ADNS 9800/9500 (sensei) in this respect.

I am actually able to notice the acceleration on my friend's Xai when I play at a low sensitivity.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> no claw grip is probably the best way to use it, I'm just saying if they're designing a claw grip mouse, who not make it a better shape for claw grip. I think they want to target a wider variety of players.


_Without having talked to SteelSeries._

I think they went that direction because of the Intellimouse Optical's popularity and they know many top players use a curled/claw grip. Combine these two things to sell a lot of mice regardless of the sensor's performance. Throw in some LED effects and you are ballin'!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> No mouse has a 100% accurate acceleration curve, but the ADNS 3090 (FK) is superior to the ADNS 9800/9500 (sensei) in this respect.
> 
> I am actually able to notice the acceleration on my friend's Xai when I play at a low sensitivity.


You mean no mouse is 100% accurate.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> _Without having talked to SteelSeries._
> 
> I think they went that direction because of the Intellimouse Optical's popularity and they know many top players use a curled/claw grip. Combine these two things to sell a lot of mice regardless of the sensor's performance. Throw in some LED effects and you are ballin'!
> You mean no mouse is 100% accurate.


sorry what's "curl" grip? I'm just curious


----------



## popups

Same thing as claw, just a different word...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think they went that direction because of the Intellimouse Optical's popularity and they know many top players use a curled/claw grip.


Wouldn't that depend on the game those top players were playing? I don't think the majority of top FPS gamers would use claw...


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Wouldn't that depend on the game those top players were playing? I don't think the majority of top FPS gamers would use claw...


yeah claw is more for RTS.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> yeah claw is more for RTS.


I use claw for FPS. I don't see why you would want to use fingertip grip over claw, for FPS. Although, I do hold the mouse loosely, so I can make minor adjustments with my fingertips.


----------



## Berserker1

I personally cant hold any mouse except tt azurues with claw grip and lift it up(it just falls down) and reposition it as fast as I can with fingertip grip.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I use claw for FPS. I don't see why you would want to use fingertip grip over claw, for FPS. Although, I do hold the mouse loosely, so I can make minor adjustments with my fingertips.


most FPS players use palm. This is because you have more control over the mouse action this way, fitting the whole thing in your palm (good for aiming etc). Most RTS pros use claw or fingertip grip styles because the mouse action is much faster in a smaller area, and although it does need to be accurate and precise, this kind of speed is better achieved with this style.

This isn't shocking new information, or to say that you should switch styles or anything. Use whatever you're comfortable with. I'm just saying what most of the pros out there do.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> No mouse has a 100% accurate acceleration curve, but the ADNS 3090 (FK) is superior to the ADNS 9800/9500 (sensei) in this respect.
> 
> I am actually able to notice the acceleration on my friend's Xai when I play at a low sensitivity.


Funny enough, my FK seems to have no accel at all, at least in mouse movement recorder. Even the Savu had some minor green fields (which I never noticed in-game, even at my low sens), but the FK is 1:1 all the time. My A9500 mice always made that program light up like a traffic light on acid, which shows the acceleration flaw they have.


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Funny enough, my FK seems to have no accel at all, at least in mouse movement recorder. Even the Savu had some minor green fields (which I never noticed in-game, even at my low sens), but the FK is 1:1 all the time. My A9500 mice always made that program light up like a traffic light on acid, which shows the acceleration flaw they have.


can you give a link to this magical mouse movement recorder that can records and compares perfect tracking of some invisible mouse with invisible sensor thats placed in the exact same place as the mouse you are testing, so it can show that your real mouse has accel compared to the perfect reference.
because my mouse movement recorder cant do such miracles and only shows and compares what my mouse sensor(with its tracking errors) reports with how windows pointer moves.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> can you give a link to this magical mouse movement recorder that can records and compares perfect tracking of some invisible mouse with invisible sensor thats placed in the exact same place as the mouse you are testing, so it can show that your real mouse has accel compared to the perfect reference.
> because my mouse movement recorder cant do such miracles and only shows and compares what my mouse sensor(with its tracking errors) reports with how windows pointer moves.


As I said in the text you quoted: "at least in the mouse movement recorder"

Obviously there is no real 1:1 hand to cursor movement, but you can tell in mouse movement recorder if one is better than the other. Or maybe let me put it like this: When I first tested mice where the sensor felt odd to me in mmr (didn't touch it till recently) I could see that they had "worse" results there than the ones that felt good. Could be coincidence or self fullfulling prophecy in my case.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> As I said in the text you quoted: "at least in the mouse movement recorder"
> 
> Obviously there is no real 1:1 hand to cursor movement, but you can tell in mouse movement recorder if one is better than the other. Or maybe let me put it like this: When I first tested mice where the sensor felt odd to me in mmr (didn't touch it till recently) I could see that they had "worse" results there than the ones that felt good. Could be coincidence or self fullfulling prophecy in my case.


Could you be referring to another program? The mouse movement recorder is a program that only identifies whether windows is screwing with any of the input counts and adding or subtracting any. Nothing to do with what sensor or tracking is like.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Could you be referring to another program? The mouse movement recorder is a program that only identifies whether windows is screwing with any of the input counts and adding or subtracting any. Nothing to do with what sensor or tracking is like.


Maybe I'm completely mistaken here, but I mean the program that was mentioned here before. It shows acceleration in green and negative acceleration in red. At least that's what I'm told. Anyway, it varied between the mice I tested, so maybe it shows that the driver of said mice has an influence? Idk.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> most FPS players use palm. This is because you have more control over the mouse action this way, fitting the whole thing in your palm (good for aiming etc). Most RTS pros use claw or fingertip grip styles because the mouse action is much faster in a smaller area, and although it does need to be accurate and precise, this kind of speed is better achieved with this style.
> 
> This isn't shocking new information, or to say that you should switch styles or anything. Use whatever you're comfortable with. I'm just saying what most of the pros out there do.


Palm gives you more control? I always found that palm was less controlled because I had a much softer grip on the mouse, and that twisting motions were harder to do.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Funny enough, my FK seems to have no accel at all, at least in mouse movement recorder. Even the Savu had some minor green fields (which I never noticed in-game, even at my low sens), but the FK is 1:1 all the time. My A9500 mice always made that program light up like a traffic light on acid, which shows the acceleration flaw they have.


I thought those programs only detected software acceleration. Unless you have some kind of device that con track the physical movement of the mouse in relation to the software movement, it's not really testing the sensor, so much as the firmware and drivers.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Maybe I'm completely mistaken here, but I mean the program that was mentioned here before. It shows acceleration in green and negative acceleration in red. At least that's what I'm told. Anyway, it varied between the mice I tested, so maybe it shows that the driver of said mice has an influence? Idk.


i think its because you had other programs open on my func-ms-3 (even though its has accel inbuilt) I never produced that. But the drivers on the ms-3 are crappy for some reason it kept making my pointer go to 7/11 on windows after reboot.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Wouldn't that depend on the game those top players were playing? I don't think the majority of top FPS gamers would use claw...


Go to a LAN or look at pictures of a CS:GO LAN with top players.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Palm gives you more control? I always found that palm was less controlled because I had a much softer grip on the mouse, and that twisting motions were harder to do.
> I thought those programs only detected software acceleration. Unless you have some kind of device that con track the physical movement of the mouse in relation to the software movement, it's not really testing the sensor, so much as the firmware and drivers.


then you're not using palm correctly. The goal with palm is to move more of your arm, and thus getting a more controlled action


----------



## popups

With palm grip I move the mouse like angle snapping (if you will). I try to only move in the X or Y axis / I don't want to move diagonally. I only use the arm to move the mouse in the direction I want. I don't ever use my wrist. Most of the movement comes from the elbow.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> With palm grip I move the mouse like angle snapping (if you will). I try to only move in the X or Y axis / I don't want to move diagonally. I only use the arm to move the mouse in the direction I want. I don't ever use my wrist. Most of the movement comes from the elbow.


This seems right. Claw or finger grippers will mostly use their hand/wrist to get the action. Thus the overall action travels less distance, and thus they need higher DPI for claw


----------



## Gabriel Ruan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> then you're not using palm correctly. The goal with palm is to move more of your arm, and thus getting a more controlled action


How does moving from the arm provide more control?


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabriel Ruan*
> 
> How does moving from the arm provide more control?


I suppose I should clarify, its not JUSt that you're using your arm, you're using low sensitivity, AND using more of your arm. The end result is that its a more controlled action. I guess yeah you could use your arm with high sense and have trash control too.


----------



## PUKED

Saying a particular grip is %100 best for FPS is kind of silly, it really depends on the game you're playing and your style. Try a low sens palm grip in QL and yeah, your lg will get scary but you'll get circles danced around you with rockets.

Back when I played that game more and messed around with grips claw + mid sens seemed best to me. Most of the pros use that too I think.

e: also my flick shots sucked at low sens, but that might just be me.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Saying a particular grip is %100 best for FPS is kind of silly, it really depends on the game you're playing and your style. Try a low sens palm grip in QL and yeah, your lg will get scary but you'll get circles danced around you with rockets.
> 
> Back when I played that game more and messed around with grips claw + mid sens seemed best to me. Most of the pros use that too I think.
> 
> e: also my snapshots sucked at low sens, but that might just be me.


I dont know why this is even debated tbh, it's not like its new information. Claw/finger is more optimal for certain gametpes, and palm is more optimal for others. Just because YOU use a certain style in a game and do fine with it, doesn't mean its optimal. I know lots of people that use palm grip in high level comptitive RTS, it doesn't make it optimal.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spandy87*
> 
> I dont know why this is even debated tbh, it's not like its new information. Claw/finger is more optimal for certain gametpes, and palm is more optimal for others. Just because YOU use a certain style in a game and do fine with it, doesn't mean its optimal. I know lots of people that use palm grip in high level comptitive RTS, it doesn't make it optimal.


I worded that badly, but it's more the mindset that most pro FPS players use palm when it can vary so much from game to game, preference aside.

Although that might just be me pretending that arena shooters have been relevant in the past 8 years.


----------



## jr92

grip is preference, i use a palm grip with what is considered to be a mid-high sensitivity and i mostly still use my wrist and i'm playing professional in csgo???? dont try telling people this grip is better and blah blah blah cause you know its a load of ****.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jr92*
> 
> grip is preference, i use a palm grip with what is considered to be a mid-high sensitivity and i mostly still use my wrist and i'm playing professional in csgo???? dont try telling people this grip is better and blah blah blah cause you know its a load of ****.


lol yet you use palm grip. thats exactly what I said

I dont know about FPS games but for pro level RTS (SC2) it is optimal to use claw or finger grip. You just can't play at the required speed using palm.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

F0rest using palm - 




Get right's teammate using palm - 




Pretty much every single pro is using palm grip - 




I know what I'm talking about. Walle is the only FPS pro that I know of who uses claw, and he became irrelevant when newer and better players worked their way onto the pro scene.

jr92 you're mostly wrong, and you just proved our point. You're using palm grip in FPS. The majority of pro RTS players will use finger or claw grip. Finger/claw grips allow you to make a greater variety of movements in trade for a loss in extreme precision/control. Palm grip gives you better control for small movements but restricts you to mostly lateral movements.
In RTS you need that wide range of motion, and in FPS you need that intense precision and up and down movements aren't really needed that much. So you can see the trade off in each scenario is obvious.

FYI, this is exactly why I asserted myself like I did previously Ino.. There are a lot of people here who don't know what they're talking about. Even though I was 99% sure I was right I tried phrasing my statement as a question to try and not seem so assertive and this is what happens.

_"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"_

― Isaac Asimov


----------



## RegalX

I honestly don't see why people are arguing Majority of the stuff done in First Person shooters is personal preference.


----------



## popups

@MaximilianKohler

No, you don't know what you are talking about. You seem to be the type that likes to argue the counter. Meaning, you feel that you are correct and everyone else is wrong, regardless. You'll never want to let go of it. You will go on and on until you get the last word in. You like to be the cool guy. You think that you are special and everyone else are stupid/mindless drones.

If you reply to this you will make my point...


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> @MaximilianKohler
> 
> No, you don't know what you are talking about. You seem to be the type that likes to argue the counter. Meaning, you feel that you are correct and everyone else is wrong, regardless. You'll never want to let go of it. You will go on and on until you get the last word in. You like to be the cool guy. You think that you are special and everyone else are stupid/mindless drones.
> 
> If you reply to this you will make my point...


Yet he is the only one who has brought references, and he has made an obvious case for it. Simply put, it's not "just personal preference" like many amateurs like to believe. There are benefits to both styles, and those benefits are best suited to different types of games. If you think it's just personal preference you're just ignorant to that fact.


----------



## popups

@Spandy87

I didn't know this was a show me your **** contest. Do you want a lot of pictures?


----------



## ZaG

I just got my FK yesterday liking it so far but compared to my G9x I am felling less control as-well as friction from the table guessing its my setup? Also I need a recommendation for the best pad for this mouse? My ice-mat is too smooth for this mouse IMO? I may just need to spend a week or so to get used to it though. Either way i'd love to hear your recommendations!

EDIT! The problem is the mouse keeps sliding with the ice mat while im aiming in game really frustrating! I am not used to having such a precise mouse! lol


----------



## trhead

Interesting discussion.

I think it is definitely personal preference. For example in Tennis you have one-handed or 2 handed backhand pro players.

Pretty sure the same thing applies to fps games. How can a basketball player with 25cm hands palm the FK or any other mouse on the market for that matter? Impossible. You also have guys with tiny 15cm hands. One 15cm guy is on this forum too. Maybe its a girl I dunno, but girls also play games.

I think this is also one of the reasons we see different grip styles









Also Cypher, Cooller and Rapha don't use palm grip from what I can see.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> @Spandy87
> 
> I didn't know this was a show me your **** contest. Do you want a lot of pictures?


that's a weird thing to say


----------



## MaximilianKohler

@trhead

Hmm, that's very interesting. It definitely looks like they are all using claw grip. Rapha's grip is quite strange looking though and seems to even be a hybrid between claw and palm. Cypher is clearly using claw grip but for the other two we need to see how their ring and pinky fingers are holding the mouse. I've only played & watched quake rarely and pretty casually so I'm not sure why there seems to be a clear preference towards claw grip in quake yet a clear preference for palm grip in CS.

Also, I'm 6'8" and played basketball till I became disabled and this is how I hold my mouse: http://www.sk-gaming.com/album/24709 (it's a palm grip)

@ndrlol I am definitely not star struck. I see top pros as my peers and believe with 99% certainty that I would be playing along side them if not for my disability. When I find something I like I commit to it fully and strive to be the best in the world at it, so I studied everything to do with CS for many years and even gave paid lessons till the game died.


----------



## ndrlol

it is 100 percent preference and anyone that says otherwise is too star struck to realize it


----------



## nlmiller0015

Whoever says stuff in first person is not personal preference is obviously a hardcore fanboy of a player are an elitist take your pick


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> @trhead
> 
> Rapha's grip is quite strange looking though and seems to even be a hybrid between claw and palm.


Yeah it almost looks like he is trying to palm it but the WMO is too short for his hand. Interesting style. Works for him, he is the most successful Quakelive player.


----------



## Art Vanelay

What exactly is the difference between palm and claw grip that makes it better for FPS? I like claw grip better because the grip on the mouse is firmer, and it is easier to twist the wrist, which makes long swipes along the x axis easier. Plus, I can also click faster when my fingers are pointing downward in a claw position. Also, I cannot find any mice that I can palm grip, since my hand is too large (the intellimouse is about as close as I can get, and it's not amazing).

I understand why fingertip grip is not used, since the momentum of the mouse becomes a problem, unless you hold the mouse really hard.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> Whoever says stuff in first person is not personal preference is obviously a hardcore fanboy of a player are an elitist take your pick


people who play competitively usually are elitists. Not in their attitudes, but in their specialty.


----------



## ndrlol

it isnt even elitism, its just stupidity from people who try to emulate elitism


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> it isnt even elitism, its just stupidity from people who try to emulate elitism


Gosh, you could not be more wrong. You assume that everyone is as ignorant as you are, and that your personal knowledge is the peak of all available knowledge, and thus everyone who claims anything you are unaware of has to be an idiot who is "trying to emulate elitism".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Also, I cannot find any mice that I can palm grip, since my hand is too large.


And that's where having a mouse that fits your hand is absolutely essential to being a top level player. Without customizations to my mouse that allow me to palm it I would be no where near as good.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> What exactly is the difference between palm and claw grip that makes it better for FPS? I like claw grip better because the grip on the mouse is firmer, and it is easier to twist the wrist, which makes long swipes along the x axis easier. Plus, I can also click faster when my fingers are pointing downward in a claw position.


When you hug the mouse with all of your fingers you get better control over minute movements (IE: a 1 click headshot). When you claw or fingertip grip you get a greater range of motion in trade for extreme precision (it goes palm -> claw -> finger tip). However, the way the mouse fits into your hand also comes into play. Many of us on the high competition level will find a mouse that fits our ideal grip for the game rather than settling for a non ideal mouse and adjusting our grip to fit it.

I have tested claw grip in the past but it was a long time ago. I'm going to test it more right now.


----------



## Ino.

The whole grip thing is preference because you will never do good in a game if your hand cramps all the time.

Of course aspects of the discussion are valid, like usually having more control when palming, but if palming is not for your hand (there are so many shapes to hands, not only sizes...) you won't be good with it. "Feeling comfortable" with a mouse has a lot to do with the games you play, so I'd say they argumentation is done from the wrong side. Most competitive CS players might use palm (I'm just assuming, I never was into CS) because it fits their hand and playstyle and thus they feel comfortable with it. Some CS players might have different hands and thus claw because they feel better clawing.

I don't think that those top level players even think about how they hold their mice, they just put their hands on them and use them the way they feel is right.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I don't think that those top level players even think about how they hold their mice, they just put their hands on them and use them the way they feel is right.


Yes exactly, but the difference comes from what tasks the game requires from you. CS requires extreme precision, whereas RTS games like SC2 require a broad range of motion. And thus, I palm in CS and I claw/finger tip in SC2 and most single player games - all with the same mouse.

The fact that every single one of those top professional CS players in the video I linked to are also palming their mice proves this point we are trying to make.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The whole grip thing is preference because you will never do good in a game if your hand cramps all the time.
> 
> Of course aspects of the discussion are valid, like usually having more control when palming, but if palming is not for your hand (there are so many shapes to hands, not only sizes...) you won't be good with it. "Feeling comfortable" with a mouse has a lot to do with the games you play, so I'd say they argumentation is done from the wrong side. Most competitive CS players might use palm (I'm just assuming, I never was into CS) because it fits their hand and playstyle and thus they feel comfortable with it. Some CS players might have different hands and thus claw because they feel better clawing.
> 
> I don't think that those top level players even think about how they hold their mice, they just put their hands on them and use them the way they feel is right.


It might be preference for most, but at the top level there is still an optimal way of doing things. I do think there is something to hand size/shape where obviously cramping is bad, but I don't think that hand size/shape is so significant that the optimal way to play the game at the pro level changes much. Unless of course they have some super weird thing going on with their hands (I grant that there might be some that have this). If people are cramping with claw and they're getting up to the pro level in SC2, they just haven't found the right claw grip mouse. Theres lots of different sizes and shapes to choose from that alleviate this issue. Claw grip isn't so specialized that it's limited to one type of mouse, and neither is palm grip. Even former pros have commented on how they had to change their grip style in order to play more optimally (or they've said that their shortcomings were the result of being so used to a less optimal grip style).

TLR: There's a lot more to consider at the pro level than "I just put my hand on the mouse and whatever works is good".


----------



## nex83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> it isnt even elitism, its just stupidity from people who try to emulate elitism


Indeed. Amount of blind fanboyism and theorycrafting that MaximilianKohler is spewing is really astounding.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

lmao. You guys remind me of 



. Sometimes unintelligence and willful ignorance just can't be remedied.


----------



## benbenkr

Lol people arguing about grip styles is akin to tennis players arguing about their grip styles.

Use whatever you're comfortable at, why is that so hard to understand? It's your hand, not others.


----------



## dakU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> F0rest using palm -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get right's teammate using palm -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much every single pro is using palm grip -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know what I'm talking about. Walle is the only FPS pro that I know of who uses claw, and he became irrelevant when newer and better players worked their way onto the pro scene.
> 
> jr92 you're mostly wrong, and you just proved our point. You're using palm grip in FPS. The majority of pro RTS players will use finger or claw grip. Finger/claw grips allow you to make a greater variety of movements in trade for a loss in extreme precision/control. Palm grip gives you better control for small movements but restricts you to mostly lateral movements.
> In RTS you need that wide range of motion, and in FPS you need that intense precision and up and down movements aren't really needed that much. So you can see the trade off in each scenario is obvious.
> 
> FYI, this is exactly why I asserted myself like I did previously Ino.. There are a lot of people here who don't know what they're talking about. Even though I was 99% sure I was right I tried phrasing my statement as a question to try and not seem so assertive and this is what happens.
> 
> _"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"_
> 
> ― Isaac Asimov


Players are best with what-ever they're comfortable with. You saying FPS players don't use claw-grip is laughable. I've been competing at the highest levels in two different FPS shooters, and I'm not as nearly as accurate with palm-grip as I am with claw.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakU*
> 
> Players are best with what-ever they're comfortable with. You saying FPS players don't use claw-grip is laughable. I've been competing at the highest levels in two different FPS shooters, and I'm not as nearly as accurate with palm-grip as I am with claw.


So who are you? and in what games?


----------



## jayfkay

gz daku then you are the exception, that doesnt change the fact that most remarkable players use palm grip. its natural and it only makes sense, as described above.


----------



## Aimcu

Hey I have bought this mouse a few days ago and placed him on qck red as you told me a month ago
Anyway I can't find which dpi level is the best
What setting and dpi level do you use for your own Zowie fake?
And what settings do neo and other professional fps gamers use ?
Btw I am cs:go player
love you all PEACE


----------



## Arc0s

I ordered the mouse it should arrive tomorrow, how is the performance on an artisan hayate?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Hey I have bought this mouse a few days ago and placed him on qck red as you told me a month ago
> Anyway I can't find which dpi level is the best
> What setting and dpi level do you use for your own Zowie fake?
> And what settings do neo and other professional fps gamers use ?
> Btw I am cs:go player
> love you all PEACE


450 dpi, 500 Hz.

I don't notice any input lag on 450 dpi like others claimed. 500 Hz gives me the highest tracking rates.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> I ordered the mouse it should arrive tomorrow, how is the performance on an artisan hayate?


tracks amazing
congraz for the new mouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 450 dpi, 500 Hz.
> 
> I don't notice any input lag on 450 dpi like others claimed. 500 Hz gives me the highest tracking rates.


Thanks mate!
you have any idea about neo or somebody else


----------



## phl0w

This has derailed pretty quickly. I wish people would stop this "I play at the highest level" attitude. I wonder why I never heard of any of you guys. Are you top 8-10 (usual number of invitational tournaments in sports) in the world? No? I'm afraid but then you're nowhere near the highest competitive level. Full stop.
Could we pretty please go back to what this thread is about: Zowie's FK. Newcomers have to read through endless posts of unspecific crap irrelevant to the mouse at hand instead of getting specific information to this very mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> And that's where having a mouse that fits your hand is absolutely essential to being a top level player. Without customizations to my mouse that allow me to palm it I would be no where near as good.
> 
> When you hug the mouse with all of your fingers you get better control over minute movements (IE: a 1 click headshot). When you claw or fingertip grip you get a greater range of motion in trade for extreme precision (it goes palm -> claw -> finger tip). However, the way the mouse fits into your hand also comes into play. Many of us on the high competition level will find a mouse that fits our ideal grip for the game rather than settling for a non ideal mouse and adjusting our grip to fit it.
> 
> I have tested claw grip in the past but it was a long time ago. I'm going to test it more right now.


Well, when it comes to mice, I have the Intellimouse optical, which is way too heavy to use, and the RAT 7, which is heavy and the sensor is a bit weird and fragile. Other than that, I have not found any mice that I can palm properly. I can't fit the two right-most fingers on my hand on most mice. I can on the G400, but the buttons are too short to claw grip.

I do see what you mean about palm being better. I do find myself laying my index and middle fingers along the mouse when I do long motions along the mouse pad. I still find that pressing the tips of the two right-most fingers into the side of the mouse gives a stronger grip, though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> This has derailed pretty quickly. Could we pretty please go back to what this thread is about: Zowie's FK. Newcomers have to read through endless posts of unspecific crap irrelevant to the mouse at hand instead of getting specific information to this very mouse.


Yeah I hear you. When threads get this long I think most people don't bother wading through the whole thing and just ask the same questions over and over.

The problem is that when someone says something incorrect and no one sets them straight then people who don't know anything about the subject think the erroneous information is correct and thus it exponentially spreads false information. I don't think there's a way we could put an end to those kinds of arguments/discussions. For example, at post 901 the discussion started to derail. I think the only way to stop that kind of thing would be to create a new thread and link it in your post. But it would be kind of difficult as multiple, similar topics are being discussed at the same time so....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, when it comes to mice, I have the Intellimouse optical, which is way too heavy to use, and the RAT 7, which is heavy and the sensor is a bit weird and fragile. Other than that, I have not found any mice that I can palm properly. I can't fit the two right-most fingers on my hand on most mice. I can on the G400, but the buttons are too short to claw grip.
> 
> I do see what you mean about palm being better. I do find myself laying my index and middle fingers along the mouse when I do long motions along the mouse pad. I still find that pressing the tips of the two right-most fingers into the side of the mouse gives a stronger grip, though.


You can't palm the IMO or the g400? Both of those mice are ideal for palm grip... For what game are you trying to claw the g400? The only thing I didn't like about the IMO was it's bad grip due to the texture/coating. Look at my mouse pictures in my signature. You might try something like that at the right front for your two right-most fingers.


----------



## ZaG

Would like to know what the best mouse pad for the FK is please? My icemat is too fast with this mouse and it is way lighter than my g9x. I need a pad that can give me more control! I have a local Microcenter that has all the QCK pads ect. I love the mouse its just not a good match with my icemat! Thanks And enough about grips already!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You can't palm the IMO or the g400? Both of those mice are ideal for palm grip... For what game are you trying to claw the g400? The only thing I didn't like about the IMO was it's bad grip due to the texture/coating. Look at my mouse pictures in my signature. You might try something like that at the right front for your two right-most fingers.


If I palm a G400, my fingertips rest on the rim in front of the buttons. If they had extended the buttons to the end of the mouse, like Zowie has done with the FK, then it would have been pretty good.

I can sort of palm the IMO, but it's way too heavy, and my 12-15 year old IMO has a hilariously low max tracking speed (so does my even older WMO, sadly), so I don't use it very much.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> You can't palm the IMO or the g400? Both of those mice are ideal for palm grip... For what game are you trying to claw the g400? The only thing I didn't like about the IMO was it's bad grip due to the texture/coating. Look at my mouse pictures in my signature. You might try something like that at the right front for your two right-most fingers.


I really think they designed the MX5xx/G400 series to be palm grip only towards people with a finger on left, scroll and right, and then pinky on the right below the horrible lip
Its really horrible to hold it with two fingers on top, and ring + pinky on the side for me, same for almost everyone i know who holds a mouse in this way, never heard of issues from claw grippers however


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> I really think they designed the MX5xx/G400 series to be palm grip only


And yet ParadokS, for many on of the best QuakeWorld players ever, fingertips (@9.5cm/360) his G400, coming from a MX300 and G1.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I really think they designed the MX5xx/G400 series to be palm grip only towards people with a finger on left, scroll and right, and then pinky on the right below the horrible lip
> Its really horrible to hold it with two fingers on top, and ring + pinky on the side for me, same for almost everyone i know who holds a mouse in this way, never heard of issues from claw grippers however


I haven't used a g400 shaped mouse in a long time, but when I had one I didn't mind that lip on the right. It was a nice place to rest your ring and pinky finger. The IE 3.0 and deathadder have no place there for your ring and pinky fingers unless your hand is really small.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZaG*
> 
> Would like to know what the best mouse pad for the FK is please? My icemat is too fast with this mouse and it is way lighter than my g9x. I need a pad that can give me more control! I have a local Microcenter that has all the QCK pads ect. I love the mouse its just not a good match with my icemat! Thanks And enough about grips already!


The FK's mouse feet are really slick so they're going to be fast on most pads. If you go to Microcenter buy a light colored (preferably not the ones with the multi-colored team logos) qck & buy this http://www.microcenter.com/product/201335/Supermat_Mousepad and test them at home to see which one feels better than return the one you don't want. If there are any other brands of large, light colored mouse pads there you could buy and try them too. Great thing about local stores is there's no shipping fee loses or restocking fees for returns.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> And yet ParadokS, for many on of the best QuakeWorld players ever, fingertips (@9.5cm/360) his G400, coming from a MX300 and G1.


Holy ****... no way.... I don't believe that... 9.5cm/360 is really high sensitivity... there is no way that any one would be able to finger tip grip a mouse at that high sensitivity and still be a top FPS player...

Typo or mistake somewhere?


----------



## ndrlol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> lmao. You guys remind me of
> 
> 
> 
> . Sometimes unintelligence and willful ignorance just can't be remedied.


the exact same thing could be said to yourself, making associations like this you do not further your argument in anyway you simply try to slander those who do not share your opinion by making an empty comparison. keep trying tho


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I really think they designed the MX5xx/G400 series to be palm grip only
> 
> 
> 
> And yet ParadokS, for many on of the best QuakeWorld players ever, fingertips (@9.5cm/360) his G400, coming from a MX300 and G1.
Click to expand...

ParadokS.. My hero!








Quote:


> I really think they designed the MX5xx/G400 series to be palm grip only towards people with a finger on left, scroll and right, and then pinky on the right below the horrible lip
> Its really horrible to hold it with two fingers on top, and ring + pinky on the side for me, same for almost everyone i know who holds a mouse in this way, never heard of issues from claw grippers however.


I think it depends on your hand size. I have no problem (or i use it this way) to fingertip the MX5xx/g400 with thumb and ringfinger OR pinky (my index finger is at left button and middle finger at right button). The lip on the right side interferes me only when i fingertip with thumb and ringfinger.


----------



## ZaG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The FK's mouse feet are really slick so they're going to be fast on most pads. If you go to Microcenter buy a light colored (preferably not the ones with the multi-colored team logos) qck & buy this http://www.microcenter.com/product/201335/Supermat_Mousepad and test them at home to see which one feels better than return the one you don't want. If there are any other brands of large, light colored mouse pads there you could buy and try them too. Great thing about local stores is there's no shipping fee loses or restocking fees for returns.
> 
> Typo or mistake somewhere?


Thank you so much for the reply! plus REP however I am cinfused there is so many different QCK pads... I dont know which one to go with? I know not to get the ones with all the designs ruins tracking. So between these two

http://www.microcenter.com/product/263778/QcK_Cloth_Gaming_Mouse_Pad

http://www.microcenter.com/product/263779/QcK_Cloth_Gaming_Mouse_Pad

Dont know the difference but if the cheaper one is better im all for it!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> the exact same thing could be said to yourself, making associations like this you do not further your argument in anyway you simply try to slander those who do not share your opinion by making an empty comparison. keep trying tho


Except I was the only one who offered any sources/proof. And I showed that every single CS pro (nip - the best team in the world was there, and neo's team) at that major tournament was using palm grip. You people trying to argue the other side have offered nothing but "no, it's all preference and anyone who says otherwise is elitist".

The only person to actually intelligently engage me and link to videos of quake pros can't be categorized as one of your ignorant lot.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZaG*
> 
> Thank you so much for the reply! plus REP however I am cinfused there is so many different QCK pads... I dont know which one to go with? I know not to get the ones with all the designs ruins tracking. So between these two


These guys say the qck+ is just a larger qck, but oddly the qck+ is the cheaper one there so I dunno, might just have to go in the store and check them out.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> 9.5cm/360 is really high sensitivity... there is no way that any one would be able to finger tip grip a mouse at that high sensitivity and still be a top FPS player


No typo. Only shows how dependant sensitivity is of a game's nature. Quake, in particular QuakeWorld, doesn't require you to aim pixel perfect - there was no Railgun after all, and hitscan weapons weren't as underpowered as today. It is/ was much more important to be able to move, and aim at the same time around maps that had much more vertical elements than modern FPS. Also, it is most probably the fastest paced FPS ever, thus making it way harder to position yourself to profit from lowish sensitivities and compensate at the same time the shortcomings of low-sens.
Enough of this though.
Quote:


> The FK's mouse feet are really slick so they're going to be fast on most pads.


In removing and reapplying them, you can increase friction by quite a bit. You introduce ripples to the feet which kind of slow down the FK.
Here's a pic:
http://flotografie.smugmug.com/Fotografie/misc/29853099_HHwxsx#!i=2560317528&k=J95VSsv&lb=1&s=X3
What looks like scratches from vertical movement are actually said ripples from removing the skates.
Quote:


> so many different QCK pads.


There are actually only 4. Increasing in size there are: QcK mini, QcK, QcK+, and the QcK heavy/mass, which is the same size as QcK but thicker. All are the exact same material. I'd get the "normal" QcK, the mini is really mini, the "+" is really large (45x40cm), and the thicker heavy might feel to "spongy" for some, which btw can introduce problems with optical mice, especially with LOD.
I'm really satisfied with my "normal" QcK. It's really reasonably priced, feels great, and is easy to clean.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> I haven't used a g400 shaped mouse in a long time, but when I had one I didn't mind that lip on the right. It was a nice place to rest your ring and pinky finger. The IE 3.0 and deathadder have no place there for your ring and pinky fingers unless your hand is really small.?


~18cm from base to tip of middle finger here.

how do you even fit your ring and pinky below that lip, that dosent even make sense, its clearly designed for a 3 finger grip - on the IME 3.0 and DA, i have the issue with the DA because its a |- \ shape so right side is horrible no matter what i do. the ime is pretty much perfect for me shape wise (Kinda.. palm+ fingertip it)


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> And yet ParadokS, for many on of the best QuakeWorld players ever, fingertips (@9.5cm/360) his G400, coming from a MX300 and G1.


Way to take a post out of context, now please read the entire thing, i was replying to someone. and notice the last line aswell

Also,
Quote:


> And yet ParadokS


I never said the mouse was bad for fingertip grip


----------



## phl0w

You said, they designed those mice *for palm grip ONLY* towards and so on...
And no, you didn't say it was bad for fingertip, however, neither did I say anything that would imply that. Instead, I tried to put that "palm grip only" (and only - at least in my langauge - is exclusive) of yours into the right perspective.
Sure, the G400 is an ergonomically shaped mouse, thus should work ideally with a palm grip of some kind. I just wanted to use that particular player to show that it can be held differently while playing at the top level of competitive gaming.
No hard feelings, cheers!


----------



## ndrlol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Except I was the only one who offered any sources/proof. And I showed that every single CS pro (nip - the best team in the world was there, and neo's team) at that major tournament was using palm grip. You people trying to argue the other side have offered nothing but "no, it's all preference and anyone who says otherwise is elitist".


except the sources/proof you provide only proves that those players prefer palm grip not that palm grip is innately better. your logic is flawed which doesn't surprised me really. maybe worry more about getting good and less about fanboying.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> except the sources/proof you provide only proves that those players prefer palm grip not that palm grip is innately better. your logic is flawed which doesn't surprised me really. maybe worry more about getting good and less about fanboying.


Okay but if you actually understood what he said to qualify his position you'd see that he gives very good reasons why palm grip is innately better for FPS. The source or data just demonstrates THAT they use it. By itself, this is an indication that for the game they play, this is more optimal. Unless you have a video that shows the same amount of pros in one room playing with claw...


----------



## ndrlol

giving the reasons certain people prefer palm grip and then citing even a majority of pros use said grip does not prove innate superiority.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> No typo. Only shows how dependant sensitivity is of a game's nature. Quake, in particular QuakeWorld, doesn't require you to aim pixel perfect - there was no Railgun after all, and hitscan weapons weren't as underpowered as today. It is/ was much more important to be able to move, and aim at the same time around maps that had much more vertical elements than modern FPS. Also, it is most probably the fastest paced FPS ever, thus making it way harder to position yourself to profit from lowish sensitivities and compensate at the same time the shortcomings of low-sens.
> Enough of this though.


This. Anyone who disagrees, stop tryharding CS for a week and go play a Quake, any Quake. A UT might even do.

Anyways I'll make a new thread so we can stop polluting this one.

Also dropping Isaac Asimov quotes into a mouse discussion is some next level shameful posting.

edit: here we go: http://www.overclock.net/t/1408559/claw-vs-palm-grip-for-fps
If someone wants to make a less biased one feel free.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> tracks amazing
> congraz for the new mouse


Thanks man can't wait to get it!


----------



## fengshaun

To the people who wanted a report back from me:

I bought 4 mice to return 3: Steelseries Sensei Raw, DeathAdder 2013, Zowie EC2 evo, Zowie FK. I played a few games of Dota 2 and SC2 with every one of them and picked the most comfortable one. *Only* three criteria are taken into account: shape, size, and click feel. I use 400-600CPI for CS:GO and 1000-1200 for everything else, so all the mice have the CPI steps I need.

EC2: Holy stiff clicks batman! The left click is fine, but the right click needs 10N to actuate (exaggerated for dramatic effect). The shape is nice, so it's a shame the right click was so bad. So bad, in fact, that I couldn't get through a single full game. Although I should say MsSpyte from the SC2 streaming fame apparently use Zowie ec2 evo (she's sponsored by Zowie), so it might just be the unit I got that had such horrible right click. Had the right button been at least as easy to click as the left button, ec2 would have been "the chosen one".

DA2013: Very nice mouse. Amazing clicks and good shape. Unfortunately a bit bulky for my hand/grip type (kind of claw, kind of fingertip), otherwise amazing mouse.

SS Sensei Raw: Clicks feel softer than the Sensei, but it might just be me. I don't have both together to see if that's actually true. Anyway, clicks are fine, though stiffer than DA. The shape is fine, too, although a bit bulky for my taste. The biggest problem for me was that if I put my ring finger on the side of the mouse (touching the pad, not resting on the mouse), my index and ring finger would be uncomfortably apart. Otherwise good mouse.

Zowie FK: Good mouse. Semi-stiff clicks, but I got used to it. Good shape, and small! I can rest my ring finger on the side of the mouse (touching the pad) and my fingers don't feel like they are being pulled apart. If I get annoyed by the clicks at some point, I can always put omrons on it. This mouse was the chosen one.

TLDR: Zowie FK (the chosen one) is small which I like and the buttons, although stiffer than the DeathAdder, are good enough for spam clicking after a few days of getting used to.


----------



## Spandy87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ndrlol*
> 
> giving the reasons certain people prefer palm grip and then citing even a majority of pros use said grip does not prove innate superiority.


lolwut?

it doesn't need to prove it, just provides a very compelling reason to regard it as more optimal.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> ~18cm from base to tip of middle finger here.
> 
> how do you even fit your ring and pinky below that lip, that dosent even make sense, its clearly designed for a 3 finger grip - on the IME 3.0 and DA, i have the issue with the DA because its a |- \ shape so right side is horrible no matter what i do. the ime is pretty much perfect for me shape wise (Kinda.. palm+ fingertip it)


My hand is 8 & 1/4th inches or ~21cm from base to tip of middle finger.

Your ring finger isn't supposed go below the lip, it's supposed to directly grip it either wrapping from above or completely on the side. Something like this:


I agree that the right side of the DA is horrible. I MUCH prefered the shape of the razer copperhead. The rubber grips on the side were awesome for both sweaty and dry hands.

*EDIT: FYI, I'm responding to all grip related comments in the other thread now.*


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZaG*
> 
> Would like to know what the best mouse pad for the FK is please? My icemat is too fast with this mouse and it is way lighter than my g9x. I need a pad that can give me more control! I have a local Microcenter that has all the QCK pads ect. I love the mouse its just not a good match with my icemat! Thanks And enough about grips already!


Works great on my 4HD. I like that pad a lot with either my AM or FK (2300 dpi). Rough texture, more like synthetic cloth, but gives a good balance. 4HD ages well from my experience. Loses a bit of speed, but remains stable.

I've used a Roccat Sota. Piece of crap you'll do well to avoid.

I've also used soft pads. Don't like them much. Too much static friction, 'sticky' feel.

Some don't like the surface of the 4HD / 9HD which feels a bit rough to the touch, the sharper edges (it's a hard pad), or the low profile (no cushioning). Not a problem for me. Anyway, it sits on top of a BoogieBug XL.

As for the FK, solid mouse. Feels smaller than AM, scroll wheel is smoother but still on the notchy side, it's lighter, the buttons are a wee bit lighter as well, but they are still Huano's. It's like carved zowie AM, with more contours and a shallower top.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> You said, they designed those mice *for palm grip ONLY* towards and so on...
> And no, you didn't say it was bad for fingertip, however, neither did I say anything that would imply that. Instead, I tried to put that "palm grip only" (and only - at least in my langauge - is exclusive) of yours into the right perspective.
> Sure, the G400 is an ergonomically shaped mouse, thus should work ideally with a palm grip of some kind. I just wanted to use that particular player to show that it can be held differently while playing at the top level of competitive gaming.
> No hard feelings, cheers!


Meants as for those that palmgrip it, its designed for that type of palmgrip, else i wouldent have mentioned claw having no issues








Regardless, it can be held however the hell someone wants as long as they find it comfy, which i dont :\


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> My hand is 8 & 1/4th inches or ~21cm from base to tip of middle finger.
> 
> Your ring finger isn't supposed go below the lip, it's supposed to directly grip it either wrapping from above or completely on the side. Something like this:
> 
> 
> I agree that the right side of the DA is horrible. I MUCH prefered the shape of the razer copperhead. The rubber grips on the side were awesome for both sweaty and dry hands.
> 
> *EDIT: FYI, I'm responding to all grip related comments in the other thread now.*


I grip mines with ring finger on the lip and pinky under. Fits perfect for me and is very comfortable. Took a while to get used to but now it feels like thats how you're supposed to grip the mouse. Also I feel more control this way. I used to have ring finger on lip or side with pinky dragging on mouse pad. My aim is more consistent now with pinky under lip.


----------



## Snakesoul

Off topic: i think i have small to medium hands ( 18\18,50cm from middle finger to base of palm) and i can't palm G400 comfortably, the main reason, that horrible right lip.. If only Logitech would change that lip to a smaller one, i think most people would appreciate that.. (only solution for me was to sand that lip completely... not the best mouse for my grip.. but i can grip it better than a DA)....

On topic: So FK can be considered a palm grip mouse? Sorry for asking this, but i would love to find a replacement for G400\DA, and after so many posts i kind of get lost...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Off topic: i think i have small to medium hands ( 18\18,50cm from middle finger to base of palm) and i can't palm G400 comfortably, the main reason, that horrible right lip.. If only Logitech would change that lip to a smaller one, i think most people would appreciate that.. (only solution for me was to sand that lip completely... not the best mouse for my grip.. but i can grip it better than a DA)....
> 
> On topic: So FK can be considered a palm grip mouse? Sorry for asking this, but i would love to find a replacement for G400\DA, and after so many posts i kind of get lost...


Interesting... I guess people with larger hands like the lip as it's a good place for our ring fingers to go and people with smaller hands don't like it because it's too large for their ring finger to grip it properly.

About the FK - that really depends on the size of your hands as well. A number of people in this thread have said they don't have a problem palming the mouse and a number of us have said that we can't palm it because it's too thin and cramps our hand. I think if everyone who has used the mouse lists the size of their hand and says whether or not they have thin or fatty hands, along with whether or not they can palm grip the mouse then that would be the best thing.

My hand is 8 & 1/4th inches or ~21cm from base to tip of middle finger.
Width is 3 & 3/4th inches or 9.5cm.

I have thin hands and I cannot palm grip the mouse as it's too thin and cramps my hand.


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> size of their hand and says whether or not they have thin or fatty hands, along with whether or not they can palm grip the mouse then that would be the best thing.


This is actually a neat idea, however, width of ones hand is also very important, as that dictates whether or not a hand cramps, due to pinky, and thumb being too clinched.

length: 20cm from heel to tip of ringfinger
width: ~9cm

Can only palm it between thumb+ringfinger (pinky adjacent to ringfinger/loose), thus reducing the resulting arch. Pinky+thumb will cramp my hand almost immediatly because the shell is too thin where thumb and pinky grip.
Claw, and fingertip work better. Claw is a mixed bag though: To ensure a stable grip, the flat fall-off at the back requires you to pull the FK quite deeply in your hand's pit, as far as your hand's heel, making vertical movements impossible by wrist/finger movement only. Logitech G/MX series, or Abyssus feel way more agile in that regard.

BTW, average hand sizes for male/female hands:
length: 189mm/ 172mm (7.44/ 6.77in.)
width: 84mm/ 74mm (3.30/ 2.91in.)


----------



## Ino.

I can "palm" the FK comfortably.

My hand:
19.9 cm from base to middle finger tip
9.2 cm width at middle of palm

For reference a picture of my grip


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I can "palm" the FK comfortably.
> 
> My hand:
> 19.9 cm from base to middle finger tip
> 9.2 cm width at middle of palm
> 
> For reference a picture of my grip


Well first of all:
@ Ino. thanks for your picture.







but i guess if it was me holding the mouse, i would make a little bit more "shell"( arche? sorry don't know the exact word..) between my hand and the knuckles.. (at least it's what i did with smaller mices like savu as far as i can remember)
My hand is almost 9 cm width, so as you can see i have small to medium fingers but an average palm..







maybe that's why i can palm the DA so well, but then to touch mouse 1 and 2 it's a little bit difficult (also to reach M4 and especially M5, almost with the tip of my thumb...)
Sorry for my off topic.


----------



## Aimcu

You don't have to do what Neo is doing.

The ADNS 3090 optical Sensor that's implemented in Zowie Mice like the AM, the FK or the EC Series, performs technically best in its native DPI Step and the native DPI Step of those Zowie Mice is the 2300 dpi step, means the highest in this Case. 450 and 1150 are interpolated and don't deliver you the best Tracking Results.

If you use 2300 dpi, you have the Option to go below 1 in CSGO ingame Sensivity.

For example 2300 dpi and windows standard 6/11 and ingame CSGO Sense 0.45 are exactly 40 cm per 360 degree. It's a stable low to mid sense that's very good to use for CSGO on a big Mousepad to do everything important movementwise you need to do. Fast 180 degree Turnarounds or the fine Headaim Control are all possible with such a Sense. I made the experience for me personally, that a sense that's to low is **** and a sense that is to high also, but a 40 to 50 cm per 360 degree sense, is almost perfect to control the fine and fast aspects of the game. A player like HudzG from Anexis is using the exact same sense, but he gets this Sense Result with a Intelli 3.0, 400 dpi windows 6/11 and ingame 2.6 which results in the same 40 cm per 360 degree. Scream from Verygames is using a Sense about 45 cm per 360 degree, with 400 dpi, windows 6/11 and ingame 2.35. Just for example.

Plus these Mice have the best malufunction speed results at 500 Hz.

Neo only gave his Name and Blessing for this Mouse but I am active in Mice Forums with Specialists that know alot more about the different Mice and the Zowie FK than Neo himself.

You don't gotta use anything from a Pro, you gotta finde your own Way and look at the right technical Infos. It's like those Question about the Resolution of a Pro. Just use the Resoultion you like and play good with.

Here is a Sensivity Calculator for you.

http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.ht..

No go frag and own with your FK. It's a great Mouse and have Fun.

true?


----------



## Axaion

Jitter is not 'best tracking' =)


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Jitter is not 'best tracking' =)


but it's the native step of the fk so it should perform best at 2300. that's what you have read in this forum a dozen times.

it's not about overall best tracking quality. it's about the best possible tracking quality the fk has to offer. with its custom lens.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> but it's the native step of the fk so it should perform best at 2300. that's what you have read in this forum a dozen times.


It has jitter on 2300 unless you use 125hz from what i read, where did you read otherwise? O_O


----------



## mousefan

Skylit meant 2300 feels very clean.

However, it's not a high priority thing in which dpi step you wanna use the fk. i played it in all steps and it was fine to play.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> Skylit meant 2300 feels very clean.
> 
> However, it's not a high priority thing in which dpi step you wanna use the fk. i played it in all steps and it was fine to play.


Well, according to the screens from Takasta and HaiiYaa, it does have jitter on 2300dpi with 500/1000hz, which is why i mentioned the 125hz part
Then again, there was something about delay with using anything but 2300.. so yeah.. pick your poison


----------



## popups

I didn't notice any "jitter". There are many factors that can cause this if your are experiencing it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

I just leave my mouse at 450 DPI. I can't tell any difference between that and 800 DPI, and 450 DPI is a lot nicer when you're on the desktop.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I didn't notice any "jitter". There are many factors that can cause this if your are experiencing it.


I dont have the mouse, im speaking from the information provided from reviews done by previous stated users


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I didn't notice any "jitter". There are many factors that can cause this if your are experiencing it.


There's always some slight jitter in tracking. Go into MS paint and make a spiral, you will probably be able to see the jitter. It was never noticable, to me, on any 3090 sensor mouse when it wasn't on the 3500 DPI step.


----------



## Skylit

Increase delay (lower HZ)

Your hand is too slow.


----------



## popups

I don't know about you guys. I cannot control 2000+ CPI enough to do perfect circles. Also friction doesn't help. So imagine using 1000Hz, even 500Hz. Should get a machine to do it before we say mice over 1800 CPI have "jitter". Especially for mice that scale off one setting.


----------



## nlmiller0015

why dont you use 450 dpi setting


----------



## Ino.

2300 dpi has jitter (comparable to older DA models), how much depends on the surface you use it on. It's still probably ok for everyone who is not looking for jitter and just plays.

But I didn't notice any delayed feeling at 450 dpi and the cursor feels very good. At 500 Hz it also has a good perfect control speed on that step. So I'm sticking with 450 dpi.


----------



## Berserker1

This delay thing with zowie mice is strange.
I got a friend that doesnt notice delay at 450dpi on his AM, but notices the delay from multicore rendering in source engine and from frames to render ahead. So its shoudnt be huge ~ <8ms.


----------



## Kered13

I bought a Zowie FK to replace my Razer Copperhead and it arrived a couple days ago, but I was dismayed to discover that it doesn't track on my desk. I've been using various bare desk tops since my first opitcal mouse nine years ago, so I'm very comfortable with it and know nothing about modern mousepads. So if I'm used to using a mouse on smooth, hard desks, what kind of mousepad would be good for me?

(For maximum trolling: The FK tracks on everything else I've tried, including my desk at work. Also a cheapo optical mouse tracks fine on my desk, go figure)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kered13*
> 
> So if I'm used to using a mouse on smooth, hard desks, what kind of mousepad would be good for me?


You can get these large generic ones either online or at your local electronics store. They're just as good if not better than the majority of "gaming" mouse pads that all cost 3x the price.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> This delay thing with zowie mice is strange.
> I got a friend that doesnt notice delay at 450dpi on his AM, but notices the delay from multicore rendering in source engine and from frames to render ahead. So its shoudnt be huge ~ <8ms.


There is probably something wrong on your end then. I am pretty sensitive to input lag, and I have not noticed any kind of lag.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kered13*
> 
> I bought a Zowie FK to replace my Razer Copperhead and it arrived a couple days ago, but I was dismayed to discover that it doesn't track on my desk. I've been using various bare desk tops since my first opitcal mouse nine years ago, so I'm very comfortable with it and know nothing about modern mousepads. So if I'm used to using a mouse on smooth, hard desks, what kind of mousepad would be good for me?
> 
> (For maximum trolling: The FK tracks on everything else I've tried, including my desk at work. Also a cheapo optical mouse tracks fine on my desk, go figure)


when using mice like zowie a dark pad is best to use theres alot of cheap black mouse pads on amazon when I bought qck heavy it was about 15$ not sure how much it is now


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> when using mice like zowie a dark pad is best to use theres alot of cheap black mouse pads on amazon when I bought qck heavy it was about 15$ not sure how much it is now


Actually we discussed that topic about a week ago
And the best mousepad color is red
And the zowie eventually don't track well on black surface according to our lovely forum members


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Actually we discussed that topic about a week ago
> And the best mousepad color is red
> And the zowie eventually don't track well on black surface according to our lovely forum members


Is there something special about the color red that makes it best?

How long is eventually?


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> There is probably something wrong on your end then. I am pretty sensitive to input lag, and I have not noticed any kind of lag.


Did I say that I own a zowie mouse? No, I just said that I have one friend that is somewhat sensitive to input lag but he doesnt notice it on 450 step. I dont feel like wasting ~100$ a mouse.

"There is probably something wrong on your end then, because I think that Im sensitive to input lag and I dont feel any" is such an ignorant and stupid response.
In no way a pc can make 2300dpi feel responsive and 450 laggy. Your pseudo "pretty sensitive" to input lag doesnt make mouse have no delay.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is there something special about the color red that makes it best?
> 
> How long is eventually?


I dont know much about that
but they have told something about the LOD


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Did I say that I own a zowie mouse? No, I just said that I have one friend that is somewhat sensitive to input lag but he doesnt notice it on 450 step. I dont feel like wasting ~100$ a mouse.


edit: wait, were you just trying to say that this mouse has no noticable input lag? I thought you were implying it did, since wired mice not having significant input lag is not anything surprising.
Quote:


> "There is probably something wrong on your end then, because I think that Im sensitive to input lag and I dont feel any" is such an ignorant and stupid response.
> In no way a pc can make 2300dpi feel responsive and 450 laggy. Your pseudo "pretty sensitive" to input lag doesnt make mouse have no delay.


Well, unless you can find some quantitative data, my experience on the mouse is no less legitimate than anyone else's

I've never heard of any kind of noticable lag on a wired mouse, but I know that there are many things you can enable in a game which will add input lag, such as prerendered frames, so I would suspect that something else is probably wrong.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I meant to say something's probably wrong on his end.
> Well, unless you can find some quantitative data, my experience on the mouse is no less legitimate than anyone else's
> 
> I've never heard of any kind of noticable lag on a wired mouse, but I know that there are many things you can enable in a game which will add input lag, such as prerendered frames, so I would suspect that something else is probably wrong.


I suggest trying it out in-game with corresponding sensitivities, you might notice then.


----------



## nlmiller0015

since when have it been red I obtain better tracking on black surface with zowie mice


----------



## Aimcu

http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/760 read this page about mousepads


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> since when have it been red I obtain better tracking on black surface with zowie mice


Why do you think they use red LEDs for the sensor? Take a second to think about it.

Most mouse pads are black, so companies cater to this. Performance should be fine on black. However, from my perspective the sensor feels better (I wouldn't say it "tracks" better) using red. White should be the same for obvious reasons. I haven't used other colors that are just as light. I have used a darker blue...


----------



## Pente

Lot's of talk about mousemats a bunch of pages ago. Personally I'd just recommend either https://de.hama.com/portal/action*2929/articleId*29458816 or http://www.allsop.com/mousepads-and-wrist-rests/mouse-pad-xl-raindrop/

I'm currently just using some tiny mousemat we got from some company that makes CAD related stuff. It's tiny (19x23cm) but provides better surface/glide than a brand new QcK. Wish there were bigger ones, perhaps I should email them and ask which company they contracted to make the pads


----------



## phl0w

wWhile I like Allsop's raindrop series, the sensor has great difficulty tracking on multi coloured pads! It's been already mentioned that plain black, or red pads work best. No need to rehash that. Plenty information to read regarding that in this and other threads anyway.


----------



## Pente

I wouldn't be too sure about the red thing honestly, any mat bright single color mat should work as good as that. People say red because optical mice come with red LEDs by standard (because LEDs of other colors weren't bright enough back before and companies simply stuck with what they had) but now there's plenty people swapping the LEDs of their mice.

The big deal is just that a sufficient amount of light needs to be reflected back to the sensor for it to track and less light is reflected the darker the material is - with black being the worst of course.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pente*
> 
> I wouldn't be too sure about the red thing honestly, any mat bright single color mat should work as good as that. People say red because optical mice come with red LEDs by standard (because LEDs of other colors weren't bright enough back before and companies simply stuck with what they had) but now there's plenty people swapping the LEDs of their mice.
> 
> The big deal is just that a sufficient amount of light needs to be reflected back to the sensor for it to track and less light is reflected the darker the material is - with black being the worst of course.








I haven't heard anyone say their reasoning is because red comes _standard_. My reason is because of what I felt and seen.

The only LEDs I have seen used are red-orange, red and infrared. Red has the best ability to penetrate through the polycarbonate used for the lens, infrared even more so. These wavelengths are better at being directed through the lens.

Black isn't necessarily a color. As a pigment it is considered as such. Black absorbs light, that is why it is black. An object is a certain color because it reflects that wavelength of light. So if I have a red LED wouldn't it make sense to use a mouse pad that is designed with that pigment? Keep in mind a white pigment reflects all wavelengths.


----------



## Pente

I meant that people say "red mats are best" because it's the best for RED LEDs and optical mice generally comes with red LEDs by standard. This doesn't apply as much now since there's plenty of LED mods around and people have started using Blue/Green ones now as well.

Red is still best for mice with red LEDs pointed against sensor but white works as well, and then any mat surface color that's bright the same as that of the LED.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pente*
> 
> I meant that people say "red mats are best" because it's the best for RED LEDs and optical mice generally comes with red LEDs by standard. This doesn't apply as much now since there's plenty of LED mods around and people have started using Blue/Green ones now as well.
> 
> Red is still best for mice with red LEDs pointed against sensor but white works as well, and then any mat surface color that's bright the same as that of the LED.


What exactly is the point of an LED mod?


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pente*
> 
> I meant that people say "red mats are best" because it's the best for RED LEDs and optical mice generally comes with red LEDs by standard. This doesn't apply as much now since there's plenty of LED mods around and people have started using Blue/Green ones now as well.
> 
> Red is still best for mice with red LEDs pointed against sensor but white works as well, and then any mat surface color that's bright the same as that of the LED.






As you see in the graph red is the best. Be it red or infrared.

As I said, a proper white will reflect all the wavelengths, that makes it the best color for that. Downside being the LED could be to bright for a white mouse pad and it will show dirt more.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> What exactly is the point of an LED mod?






To make your mouse worse.

As long as you keep the LED in the wavelengths in the graph above you are fine. Once you go out of that area things will change...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> As you see in the graph red is the best. Be it red or infrared.


When I compare my deathadder against my G400, the deathadder seems to hate a lot more surfaces than the G400. It's mostly white surfaces that the infrared illumination doesn't like.

Quote:


> To make your mouse worse.
> 
> As long as you keep the LED in the wavelengths in the graph above you are fine. Once you go out of that area things will change...


Now I am even more lost, as to why anyone would do this. You can't even see the color of your sensor when you are using the mouse.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> When I compare my deathadder against my G400, the deathadder seems to hate a lot more surfaces than the G400. It's mostly white surfaces that the infrared illumination doesn't like.
> 
> Now I am even more lost, as to why anyone would do this. You can't even see the color of your sensor when you are using the mouse.






Maybe the G400 doesn't have as bright of a LED. We "know" the older DeathAdders were designed to track on challenging surfaces. The DeathAdder is likely receiving too much light, it would be overexposed. Or it could be the way the light is reflecting off the surface texture. It requires some science to understand it better. I would choose white over red dependent upon the texture and material.

If they are using blue and green LEDs that would be very silly. Infrared, red, orange and yellow is fine. If you are choosing blue and green for the appearance I hope you are not a gamer. Choosing yellow or orange to see if it lowers LOD is a legitimate reason. I have had thoughts about testing yellow or orange.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> Maybe the G400 doesn't have as bright of a LED. We "know" the older DeathAdders were designed to track on challenging surfaces. The DeathAdder is likely receiving too much light, it would be overexposed. Or it could be the way the light is reflecting off the surface texture. It requires some science to understand it better. I would choose white over red dependent upon the texture and material.


I never thought about it that way. Most of the surfaces that it refused to track properly on were somewhat glossy, like textbooks, and things like that.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If they are using blue and green LEDs that would be very silly. Infrared, red, orange and yellow is fine. If you are choosing blue and green for the appearance I hope you are not a gamer. Choosing yellow or orange to see if it lowers LOD is a legitimate reason. I have had thoughts about testing yellow or orange.


I have done that (yellow and orange LED), the result was ultra low lod (to low for my taste ). I have not spend much time with those two colours. Imo the red and infrared are interesting, plus the brighness room, within those two also can have rather big influence.


----------



## Vikhr

Does anyone know how stiff the switches are compared to the EC1/2? And do the buttons have a lot of travel distance like the EC?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Does anyone know how stiff the switches are compared to the EC1/2? And do the buttons have a lot of travel distance like the EC?


The buttons on the AM seem to have a short travel. Seems to be a slight bit longer than the G400, and a huge amount shorter than the deathadder.


----------



## Vikhr

I was asking about the FK since the buttons are reportedly lighter than the AM, I was not a fan of how stiff the buttons were on the AM.
I also didn't like how mushy the buttons felt on the EC1/2, really long travel distance with stiff switches.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

They are lighter than the original AM. The AM-FG also has the lighter tuned switches. Still a heavier click than Omrons, not that it's a bad thing necessarily (more satisfying per click feel and response imo with FK's Huano, tho admittedly took me a while to not get tired after using with while playing RTS).


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*
> 
> They are lighter than the original AM. The AM-FG also has the lighter tuned switches. Still a heavier click than Omrons, not that it's a bad thing necessarily (more satisfying per click feel and response imo with FK's Huano, tho admittedly took me a while to not get tired after using with while playing RTS).


pretty much this
i prefer the clicks on the FK to my Sensei after using it every day since ive had it.
when i switch back to the omrons they feel too mushy and light and i dislike them a lot now - something i never thought i'd say, i thought the clicks on the sensei were the most amazing thing ever once.

also people on this forum smack talk the huanos *like crazy* and its no wonder why more people are hesitant to try this mouse or other mice with huano switches in them. i think they're really nice and wish i'd gotten an am or ec before this.

my advice to anyone reading this thread who has a sensei and wants something else or is looking for a nice ambi mouse for rts or fps, is to buy the FK. i played FF14 Beta with it this past weekend and it was great (MMO)


----------



## CorruptBE

I don't understand all the huano hate either tbh. Currently not using a Zowie mouse because I need something that reaches 4 m/s, but I actually like those switches. Great for fps games, tapshooting and bursting is alot more controlled.

(also less accidental knifing of teammates in spawn xD)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I don't understand all the huano hate either tbh. Currently not using a Zowie mouse because I need something that reaches 4 m/s, but I actually like those switches. Great for fps games, tapshooting and bursting is alot more controlled.
> 
> (also less accidental knifing of teammates in spawn xD)


How could you possibly need something that can track at 4 m/s? I'm guessing you got a phillips twin eye sensor, if you needed such a ridiculous tracking speed.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How could you possibly need something that can track at 4 m/s? I'm guessing you got a phillips twin eye sensor, if you needed such a ridiculous tracking speed.


The 2013 .DEATHADDER 3,5G And G400 Can reach higher than that theres much more but the list is kinda long


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> The 2013 .DEATHADDER 3,5G And G400 Can reach higher than that theres much more but the list is kinda long


I have noticed that I can't get my G400 to skip, no matter how fast I can move it, whereas the Zowie AM can skip if I move it incredibly fast. Maybe I need a new mouse pad; which one works best with this mouse? I was looking at getting a QCK heavy a while ago.


----------



## janaso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I have noticed that I can't get my G400 to skip, no matter how fast I can move it, whereas the Zowie AM can skip if I move it incredibly fast. Maybe I need a new mouse pad; which one works best with this mouse? I was looking at getting a QCK heavy a while ago.


That's to be expected. The Zowie AM uses a custom lens, which lowers the lift-off distance as well as the max tracking speed. (Ideal for people like me, who don't ever go above 2.5 m/s, but require a very low lift-off distance.)


----------



## popups

I don't like a 1mm LOD. Definitely not ideal for me.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janaso*
> 
> That's to be expected. The Zowie AM uses a custom lens, which lowers the lift-off distance as well as the max tracking speed. (Ideal for people like me, who don't ever go above 2.5 m/s, but require a very low lift-off distance.)


While I do enjoy the 1mm LOD, it bugs me that I can hit the max tracking speed. It's fairly hard to hit, but I can still hit it on my 14" mouse pad. If it ever becomes a problem, I guess I could go back to the Logitech G400, although I like the shape of the Zowie much better. I just want anything with the shape of a WMO. My WMO (no idea what revision) hits its max tracking speed very low, so I can't use it at all.


----------



## CorruptBE

I don't hit it that much either, but occasionally. Occasionally hitting it is enough for me not to use it imo, makes me feel uncomfortable when playing, as if someone put the brakes on or something (subconscious feeling of having to hold back ).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I don't hit it that much either, but occasionally. Occasionally hitting it is enough for me not to use it imo, makes me feel uncomfortable when playing, as if someone put the brakes on or something (subconscious feeling of having to hold back ).


I don't have to hold back while playing, since I don't move that fast on my current mouse pad, but I decided to buy a steelseries QCK+, since I've always felt that mine was too small. Hopefully I'll be fine on 17", but I always have my G400 to go back to, if I can't handle the larger size. I could never get my G400 to skip.

I've also heard that if you set the mouse to run at either 2300 DPI, or set the polling rate down to 500hz at lower DPI steps, the max tracking speed increases a bit.


----------



## Ino.

Yes, max tracking is best at 500 Hz for the FK. It didn't skip for me once while playing on the NP+ and only when I forced it on the Talent. I guess it has a PCS of ~3.4 m/s but the malfunction speed is high enough not to skip.

If I really try to make it skip I can, but I could do so with every mouse so far, even G400, Savu, Deathadder etc.


----------



## blainemono

The problem is *500hz option is broken on Zowie FK*. When you set the 500hz option by pressing buttons while connecting to your PC, the mouse operates at over 600hz and it isn't stable at all. I've verified this on 3 PCs and also found threads with other people having the same problem.

Apparently this was the same with AM. I recommend to not use 500hz at all with both AM and FK, unless you are willing to change the polling using the software method.


----------



## Ino.

I didn't experience that, mine stays at a little under 500 Hz. Anyway, the important part is the performance imo, I don't mind if it is 250, 500 or 1000 Hz. Or is there any problem with Hz between 500 and 1000?


----------



## Aimcu

2300 dpi isn't dime a dozen though it gives the best tracking


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes, max tracking is best at 500 Hz for the FK. It didn't skip for me once while playing on the NP+ and only when I forced it on the Talent. I guess it has a PCS of ~3.4 m/s but the malfunction speed is high enough not to skip.
> 
> If I really try to make it skip I can, but I could do so with every mouse so far, even G400, Savu, Deathadder etc.


I bruised my hand, against my computer case, the last time I tried to get my G400 to skip. 3.4 m/s is definitely higher than what I was getting on mine; I'll have to try the 500hz setting when I get home.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> The problem is *500hz option is broken on Zowie FK*. When you set the 500hz option by pressing buttons while connecting to your PC, the mouse operates at over 600hz and it isn't stable at all. I've verified this on 3 PCs and also found threads with other people having the same problem.
> 
> Apparently this was the same with AM. I recommend to not use 500hz at all with both AM and FK, unless you are willing to change the polling using the software method.


Maybe you have a defective mouse.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Well, I got a chance to test out my mosue at 500hz, and I can still get it to skip, without punching my case, but it skips at a speed at least 0.4m/s faster speed.

I doubt I'll ever go over the tracking speed limit in any game, but I'll see when my new big mouse pad arrives.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> The problem is *500hz option is broken on Zowie FK*. When you set the 500hz option by pressing buttons while connecting to your PC, the mouse operates at over 600hz and it isn't stable at all. I've verified this on 3 PCs and also found threads with other people having the same problem.
> 
> Apparently this was the same with AM. I recommend to not use 500hz at all with both AM and FK, unless you are willing to change the polling using the software method.


I have two fks and have RMA'd one. I can verify that this problem is persistent, but not all of then have the problem. What works the best is just forcing 500hz, mine doesn't go above 500 after I forced.

Although zowie's sensors are good, they seem to be inconsistent performance wise. I also RMAd one of my mice because then lens was loose and caused my cursor to freak out.


----------



## Axaion

Dosent seem like any mice is holding a solid 500hz or 1000hz unless you force it, none of my old mice had it solid untill i forced it the usual way.. anyone have it stable on windows 8?..


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Dosent seem like any mice is holding a solid 500hz or 1000hz unless you force it, none of my old mice had it solid untill i forced it the usual way.. anyone have it stable on windows 8?..


Is there any way to force the rate without having to do system file hacks?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is there any way to force the rate without having to do system file hacks?


Not as far as i know, and its not doable at all on windows 8.. =\


----------



## Vikhr

I just got an FK, I'm actually liking it a lot for my hybrid claw/palm grip
My particular mouse has a very light M1, it's about as light as my 1.1's buttons, while M2 feels slightly stiffer. The buttons feel much better than they did on the AM and they don't feel mushy like the EC mice I've tried.

I'm still not a fan of the scroll wheel and I'd still prefer a glossy version of this mouse although the matte paint is more tolerable than a traditional rubber coating.


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Dosent seem like any mice is holding a solid 500hz or 1000hz unless you force it, none of my old mice had it solid untill i forced it the usual way.. anyone have it stable on windows 8?..


My Sensei holds all hz settings stable so that's false. Razer and Zowie mice seem horrible for this, every SteelSeries mouse I've ever owned has held its hz stable.


----------



## Aimcu

so 2300 dpi and 500hz or 450 dpi and 500hz for fps games like csgo


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> My Sensei holds all hz settings stable so that's false. Razer and Zowie mice seem horrible for this, every SteelSeries mouse I've ever owned has held its hz stable.


Ive never had a steelseries mouse, just something that came to me was that none of my mice were stable before i forced it, which program are you using to test it?


----------



## Tsubakii

is this stable?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!














Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> so 2300 dpi and 500hz or 450 dpi and 500hz for fps games like csgo


2300 [email protected] has no input lag or jitter
450 dpi @ 500hz has the highest perfect control speed with around 10ms input lag (placebo?)
i just keep my mouse at 1000hz and use 2300 dpi in quake and 450 dpi in counter-strike, since lower dpi = less negative accel (with raw input off, since raw input is bugged in CS and forces mouse smoothing)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsubakii*
> 
> is this stable?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2300 [email protected] has no input lag or jitter
> 450 dpi @ 500hz has the highest perfect control speed with around 10ms input lag (placebo?)
> i just keep my mouse at 1000hz and use 2300 dpi in quake and 450 dpi in counter-strike, since lower dpi = less negative accel (with raw input off, since raw input is bugged in CS and forces mouse smoothing)


I can't feel any kind of lag, whatsoever at 450 DPI 500hz.

2300 DPI has jitter; every setting had jitter.

Also I didn't know that raw input was bugged. I can kind of feel the smoothing gone now that I am playing without it.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsubakii*
> 
> is this stable?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2300 [email protected] has no input lag or jitter
> 450 dpi @ 500hz has the highest perfect control speed with around 10ms input lag (placebo?)
> i just keep my mouse at 1000hz and use 2300 dpi in quake and 450 dpi in counter-strike, since lower dpi = less negative accel (with raw input off, since raw input is bugged in CS and forces mouse smoothing)


yeah, thats stable, maybe its just my computer being an arse then


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I can't feel any kind of lag, whatsoever at 450 DPI 500hz.
> 
> 2300 DPI has jitter; every setting had jitter.
> 
> Also I didn't know that raw input was bugged. I can kind of feel the smoothing gone now that I am playing without it.


10ms is pretty hard to notice, i think i can feel it playing quake with my 140hz crt
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> yeah, thats stable, maybe its just my computer being an arse then


windows 7 64bit, i forced the rate too


----------



## Ratface

So I need another replacement mouse. I like the shape of this but I saw that the AM you can only use the buttons on one side of the mouse, is that the same on the FK? I actually prefer the buttons on both sides and it's a huge annoyance that no mice seem to make the buttons on both sides.

Also, how is zowie known for reliability? I'm just sick of dealing with logitech mice that die in a little over a year.


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ratface*
> 
> So I need another replacement mouse. I like the shape of this but I saw that the AM you can only use the buttons on one side of the mouse, is that the same on the FK? I actually prefer the buttons on both sides and it's a huge annoyance that no mice seem to make the buttons on both sides.
> 
> Also, how is zowie known for reliability? I'm just sick of dealing with logitech mice that die in a little over a year.


my zowie fk seems well built, cord has antifray so it wont disconnect like a g400


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ratface*
> 
> So I need another replacement mouse. I like the shape of this but I saw that the AM you can only use the buttons on one side of the mouse, is that the same on the FK? I actually prefer the buttons on both sides and it's a huge annoyance that no mice seem to make the buttons on both sides.


FK and AM are very much identical underneath. You cannot use the extra 2 buttons, there are there for left-handed mode. I believe the Sensei Raw / Pro have options for the extra side buttons.
Quote:


> Also, how is zowie known for reliability? I'm just sick of dealing with logitech mice that die in a little over a year.


Can only speak for 6 months usage on the AM, but it's basically like new. They feel very sturdy and durable. Very simple mice in design, less to go wrong, and the buttons have am industrial feel (meaning, a bit heavy). The wheel (especially on the AM) is a bit clunky. I feel pretty confident it will last, and seems easy to repair as well. I prefer the cable connection on the FK which seems more secure.

I've had mouse trouble with a Kone (who hasn't), and a G500 which started to squeak under stress. But no problems with a Qpad 5K, and the Zowies. Or my old Logitechs (MX510, and a MX518) for that matter.


----------



## exousia

I think my only real complaint about the FK so far is that the side's and top surface are very slippery. Really wish it had a rubbery grip to it like the g9x or even taipan does. It's not that my hands slide off the mouse but I just don't feel one with it because no firm grip when I'm holding it.

I have to see about getting adhesive grips. Isn't there a manufacturer who makes some? I recall seeing them on a Japanese site on time applied to a mouse.


----------



## resis

So I used the FK for months, haven't really been gaming for the time being until few days ago. Using the FK on the desktop is really nice, mostly finger tip for me. Playing games with it is okay, but not that comfortable, sides don't grip too well and shape is too low. Material is indeed way too slippery for me, it kind of wore in and is less slippery now, but still not great.

AM was a better mouse in every aspect for me, aside the way too stiff switches and crappy wheel. I think FK is finally my last Zowie mouse, but damn it is the most gorgeous looking mouse I ever used.

Back to CM Recon right now (can't go back to AM with the switches and wheel that it has), which isn't all that great either, but more comfortable to hold during gaming.

Still need a proper gaming mouse, after all this time...









...bst?









Looking toward the next optical from CM Storm. Otherwise no idea what to do. Bst and CM Storm last chance.


----------



## hiccup

roccat kone pure optical has been released right now, maybe an alternative?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hiccup*
> 
> roccat kone pure optical has been released right now, maybe an alternative?


Where?, i dont see it anywhere in denmark, and i dont see any posts about it on their site or facebook O_O


----------



## resis

I see it on German amazon site indeed. Thanks for the tip, not sure about the shape though, its ergonomic. I laid my hand on the laser version at the store once, seemed too short, but not bad. Gotta lay my hand on it once again.

Edit: Oh right, since Roccat is a German based company no wonder it is available over here, but I see it is available since the 18th of June, so a month already. Will probably hit Denmark soon.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I see it on German amazon site indeed. Thanks for the tip, not sure about the shape though, its ergonomic. I laid my hand on the laser version at the store once, seemed too short, but not bad. Gotta lay my hand on it once again.
> 
> Edit: Oh right, since Roccat is a German based company no wonder it is available over here, but I see it is available since the 18th of June, so a month already. Will probably hit Denmark soon.


The optical version is available since today, at least on Amazon. I pre-ordered last week, should arrive tomorrow hopefully.


----------



## resis

Hmm, amazon mixed the laser reviews with the optical, so the release date they state may not be the actual release date of the optical version. Nevermind.

Go grab it. Wish it was ambidextrous mouse.


----------



## Kyal

Having heard problems with the Zowie mice & coloured pads, I'm guessing they don't track well on the fnatic & na'vi QCK+?

Does anyone know a big pad roughly same size as the QCK+ but thickish(4mm+?), the normal QCK+ is too thin for me


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Having heard problems with the Zowie mice & coloured pads, I'm guessing they don't track well on the fnatic & na'vi QCK+?
> 
> Does anyone know a big pad roughly same size as the QCK+ but thickish(4mm+?), the normal QCK+ is too thin for me


artisan check it out


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Having heard problems with the Zowie mice & coloured pads, I'm guessing they don't track well on the fnatic & na'vi QCK+?
> 
> Does anyone know a big pad roughly same size as the QCK+ but thickish(4mm+?), the normal QCK+ is too thin for me


Qck Heavy, it's a Qck+ in thick (6mm)


----------



## calsonic

My FK's coating seems like its just black plastic.

I loved the rubberized coating on the AM, this one gets a little slick.

Don't get me wrong, I like the FKs shape better than the AM, but the coating is pretty crap. Anyone have any ideas on how to give it some more texture? PlastiDip?


----------



## phl0w

Quote:


> Anyone have any ideas on how to give it some more texture?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*


How would doing cocaine help?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *calsonic*
> 
> My FK's coating seems like its just black plastic.
> 
> I loved the rubberized coating on the AM, this one gets a little slick.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like the FKs shape better than the AM, but the coating is pretty crap. Anyone have any ideas on how to give it some more texture? PlastiDip?


I actually like the coating on the FK, very similar to the NAOS 5000. It gets kind of spotty where I grip it, but at least the grip is good. Plasti dip is always an option though if you don't like it.


----------



## Zipp

Hi,

I have a Zowie EC1 Evo but I am not completely happy with it - at times I find it a little bulky and heavy when gaming (I only play CS:GO), and I have been considering to try out another mouse. I have been looking a bit on the FK, but I have never tried an ambidextrous mouse, and I am a bit in doubt if it will turn out too small or just too different for me.

I have a pretty average hand size (19.5 cm length, 8.8 cm width) - I think that my grip is mostly a palm grip (not entirely sure though), but I sometimes tend to bend my fingers slightly towards a claw grip - not really my ring finger and pinkie so much though. Also, I don't have the mouse completely inside my palm, but perhaps a bit more forward, so it's not like I have the entire palm on the mouse - though that may just be how a classic palm grip is, I'm not sure









Do you think the FK would fit for me based on my hand size and grip? I have gone through quite a few different mice in the last couple of months without really finding the perfect mouse, so it would be nice to avoid any obvious mistakes









I hope you can help me a bit









On a side note: I have tried both the glossy and rubberized version of the EC1, but the white one gets too greasy and is generally uncomfortable even though it is very grippy - whereas the rubberized one is a bit too slippery for me, so I feel like I have less control. I have also tried the DA 2013, but I didn't like it - primarily due to the new rubber stuff on the sides which I found really bad to grip, I got cramps in my pinkie when lifting, it felt too narrow - but I think that's mostly because I have to use more force to lift it than if it had a more sticky coating since I didn't recall having this problem on the old DA that I had way back.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Zowie EC1 Evo but I am not completely happy with it - at times I find it a little bulky and heavy when gaming (I only play CS:GO), and I have been considering to try out another mouse. I have been looking a bit on the FK, but I have never tried an ambidextrous mouse, and I am a bit in doubt if it will turn out too small or just too different for me.
> 
> I have a pretty average hand size (19.5 cm length, 8.8 cm width) - I think that my grip is mostly a palm grip (not entirely sure though), but I sometimes tend to bend my fingers slightly towards a claw grip - not really my ring finger and pinkie so much though. Also, I don't have the mouse completely inside my palm, but perhaps a bit more forward, so it's not like I have the entire palm on the mouse - though that may just be how a classic palm grip is, I'm not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the FK would fit for me based on my hand size and grip? I have gone through quite a few different mice in the last couple of months without really finding the perfect mouse, so it would be nice to avoid any obvious mistakes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can help me a bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note: I have tried both the glossy and rubberized version of the EC1, but the white one gets too greasy and is generally uncomfortable even though it is very grippy - whereas the rubberized one is a bit too slippery for me, so I feel like I have less control. I have also tried the DA 2013, but I didn't like it - primarily due to the new rubber stuff on the sides which I found really bad to grip, I got cramps in my pinkie when lifting, it felt too narrow - but I think that's mostly because I have to use more force to lift it than if it had a more sticky coating since I didn't recall having this problem on the old DA that I had way back.


I've found that the AM is large enough for me, despite having hands that are too large to hold a G400 properly.

If you have a Microsoft WMO lying around, try that out. It's pretty much the same shape.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> I have a pretty average hand size (19.5 cm length, 8.8 cm width) - I think that my grip is mostly a palm grip (not entirely sure though), but I sometimes tend to bend my fingers slightly towards a claw grip - not really my ring finger and pinkie so much though. Also, I don't have the mouse completely inside my palm, but perhaps a bit more forward, so it's not like I have the entire palm on the mouse - though that may just be how a classic palm grip is, I'm not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the FK would fit for me based on my hand size and grip? I have gone through quite a few different mice in the last couple of months without really finding the perfect mouse, so it would be nice to avoid any obvious mistakes


My hands are a bit bigger than yours, but the way you describe your grip sounds a lot like mine. And the FK is very nice to grip for me. But as every hand seems to be build differently all you can do is try it for yourself.


----------



## Zipp

Thanks for your replies








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've found that the AM is large enough for me, despite having hands that are too large to hold a G400 properly.
> 
> If you have a Microsoft WMO lying around, try that out. It's pretty much the same shape.


I have tried the G500 (identical to G400 I believe) which definitely wasn't too small for me, but I didn't like the grip. Isn't the AM a bit larger than the FK?

Do you mean the WMO is identical to AM or FK? I don't have a WMO though, I got some old Intellimouse 3.0, but that's probably not any help








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> My hands are a bit bigger than yours, but the way you describe your grip sounds a lot like mine. And the FK is very nice to grip for me. But as every hand seems to be build differently all you can do is try it for yourself.


Sounds good







I know I have to try it myself but I'm just trying to figure out if I it would make good sense to rule out the FK for any reason, or if it is a good candidate with a good chance of being a success based on my grip and hand size.

I'm also wondering if the height of the mouse is ok - the EC1 and DA for example appears to be quite a bit higher than the FK, but perhaps that's not a problem - I guess it also depends a lot on how far back the highest point is on the mouse. Do you have any idea how this is compared to the DA or EC1?

it can quickly get expensive sending mice back and forth from the shop (unfortunately I can't go to a local store since they don't have any of these mice for sale), so I can't afford to try all mice out there


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> Thanks for your replies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried the G500 (identical to G400 I believe) which definitely wasn't too small for me, but I didn't like the grip. Isn't the AM a bit larger than the FK?
> 
> Do you mean the WMO is identical to AM or FK? I don't have a WMO though, I got some old Intellimouse 3.0, but that's probably not any help


It's closer to the FK, since the FK has sides that slope inward. The top of the WMO is a bit differently curved than the AM.

Not really sure how the AM compares to the FK, but they look pretty similar. I just find that the shape of the AM and WMO both lend well to my fairly large hands.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> I'm also wondering if the height of the mouse is ok - the EC1 and DA for example appears to be quite a bit higher than the FK, but perhaps that's not a problem - I guess it also depends a lot on how far back the highest point is on the mouse. Do you have any idea how this is compared to the DA or EC1?


Not sure if it helps, but I took some comparison shots of an FK and EC2 a couple months ago: 1 2

It's hard to tell in the pics, but the peak on the FK is a little farther back so it feels about as tall as the EC2 where it hits your palm, but it's a lot shorter in the front, and overall less bulky so it doesn't touch your knuckle as much and puts your finger tips a lot closer to the table.

No idea how that works out for your grip, but I like it better for claw. Only thing off about the shape I think is the slight thinness because of the concave sides - depends on how you hold it, but it cramped my hands for a while coming from a WMO.

btw the FK is a lot lighter and has a much better coating than the EC, I have pretty much the same complaints as you do about it. Feels more like really nice matte plastic instead of slippery rubber.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Not really sure how the AM compares to the FK, but they look pretty similar.


----------



## noots

I have a question, is the zowie fk are more smooter when you click than a kana? When i play lol my finger hurt with the kana because it's hard to press.


----------



## shedokan

So as expected from Razer, The DA 2013 broke after 4months! Knew I shouldn't buy anything from them but anyway

Should I get the EC FK or G400? Is the FK really close in shape and feel to the AM? The AM is the worst mouse I ever tried


----------



## shedokan

So as expected from Razer, The DA 2013 broke after 4months! Knew I shouldn't buy anything from them but anyway

Should I get the EC FK or G400? Is the FK really close in shape and feel to the AM? The AM is the worst mouse I ever tried


----------



## Zipp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Not sure if it helps, but I took some comparison shots of an FK and EC2 a couple months ago: 1 2
> 
> It's hard to tell in the pics, but the peak on the FK is a little farther back so it feels about as tall as the EC2 where it hits your palm, but it's a lot shorter in the front, and overall less bulky so it doesn't touch your knuckle as much and puts your finger tips a lot closer to the table.
> 
> No idea how that works out for your grip, but I like it better for claw. Only thing off about the shape I think is the slight thinness because of the concave sides - depends on how you hold it, but it cramped my hands for a while coming from a WMO.
> 
> btw the FK is a lot lighter and has a much better coating than the EC, I have pretty much the same complaints as you do about it. Feels more like really nice matte plastic instead of slippery rubber.


Thank you







What sort of size is your hands? Now that you mention the thinness, it is actually the main thing that I am worrying about, do you think that the width is ok for a palm grip or is it too narrow?

I felt the DA was too thin compared with the EC, but that may be because of the coating or the higher weight of the DA - I think it's hard to judge that based on the measured width alone.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It's closer to the FK, since the FK has sides that slope inward. The top of the WMO is a bit differently curved than the AM.
> 
> Not really sure how the AM compares to the FK, but they look pretty similar. I just find that the shape of the AM and WMO both lend well to my fairly large hands.


Do you use a palm grip?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> So as expected from Razer, The DA 2013 broke after 4months! Knew I shouldn't buy anything from them but anyway
> 
> Should I get the EC FK or G400? Is the FK really close in shape and feel to the AM? The AM is the worst mouse I ever tried


Ehm you can just contact the place your bought the mouse and get a new one at once?
So why even buy a new one.


----------



## resis

I believe this behaviour is called "rage quit".


----------



## shedokan

They aren't willing to replace it cause they claim it's broken, mouse1 basically stopped clicking and I can't use the warranty on that apparently.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> Do you use a palm grip?


I do somewhat of a palm claw hybrid grip. I don't really know where to put my two right-most fingers, so I press them against the mouse like in a claw grip; other than that, I am doing a palm grip.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

EC1 Evo closest to the deathadder.

I can't fault my two Zowies. They are not perfect, but what is.

Also depends also on the pad you use. I'm on a 4HD, and the texture work really well with the Avago 3090.


----------



## shuprimo

What´s the best material mousepad for this mouse? cloth, plastic or metallic?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shuprimo*
> 
> What´s the best material mousepad for this mouse? cloth, plastic or metallic?


Optical sensors tend to like cloth the best, from what I've seen. it's mostly down to how your like the feel, though.


----------



## Skylit

Black grainy plastic tends to be the better all around solution for optical designs be it LED or Laser.


----------



## shuprimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Black grainy plastic tends to be the better all around solution for optical designs be it LED or Laser.


Steel Series 4HD could be one you are refering? Can you name others mousepad of black grainy plastic


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> They aren't willing to replace it cause they claim it's broken, mouse1 basically stopped clicking and I can't use the warranty on that apparently.


Then you contact razer and get a replacement. Never had any problems doing that.


----------



## Aimcu

How can I test my hz?
I am trying to get 500 but I aint sure I succeed the dpi is easy to recognize by the color but the hz is much more difficult
any suggestions?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> How can I test my hz?
> I am trying to get 500 but I aint sure I succeed the dpi is easy to recognize by the color but the hz is much more difficult
> any suggestions?


"Plugging in the mouse with no buttons held = default 1000hz

Plugging in the mouse while holding the front thumb button = 500hz

Plugging in the mouse while holding the back thumb button = 125hz"

Check hz with mouserate,enotus,dmir etc.


----------



## Art Vanelay

So it turns out that the max tracking speed on the XFX warpad was significantly slower than on the steelseries Qck+. I never would have though it mattered that much.

Since I only really bought the warpad for its nice wrist wrest, I cut off the wrist rest and clamped it on my desk, separately.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> How can I test my hz?
> I am trying to get 500 but I aint sure I succeed the dpi is easy to recognize by the color but the hz is much more difficult
> any suggestions?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1201593/mouse-testing-software/0_5


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> "Plugging in the mouse with no buttons held = default 1000hz
> 
> Plugging in the mouse while holding the front thumb button = 500hz
> 
> Plugging in the mouse while holding the back thumb button = 125hz"
> 
> Check hz with mouserate,enotus,dmir etc.


That's incorrect.

Back side button: 1000 Hz
Front side button: 500 Hz
Both side buttons: 125 Hz

At least for the FK. If you don't press any button at all it stays on the Hz you set before.


----------



## Aimcu

450 dpi and 500hz (I think)
good results?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's incorrect.
> 
> Back side button: 1000 Hz
> Front side button: 500 Hz
> Both side buttons: 125 Hz
> 
> At least for the FK. If you don't press any button at all it stays on the Hz you set before.


Weird that they changed it for the FK







Yeah those were for the AM, thought they would go for the same, seems like the logical option









My bad.


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> 
> 450 dpi and 500hz (I think)
> good results?


lol 1.4 m/s thats ultra bad
did you move mouse as fast as you can across the pad?


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> lol 1.4 m/s thats ultra bad
> did you move mouse as fast as you can across the pad?


yeah I do


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Weird that they changed it for the FK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah those were for the AM, thought they would go for the same, seems like the logical option
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My bad.


Yeah, I guess it's better that way on the FK, because otherwise I'd have to pull it out and plug back in again every time I boot up my PC to get the 500 Hz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> 
> 450 dpi and 500hz (I think)
> good results?


That's very bad, here's what I get:



http://imgur.com/m5nBItX


----------



## ckWL

Has anyone went from a G400 to this? really thinking about trying one out.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yeah, I guess it's better that way on the FK, because otherwise I'd have to pull it out and plug back in again every time I boot up my PC to get the 500 Hz.
> That's very bad, here's what I get:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/m5nBItX


nvm


----------



## Aimcu

Edit for Ino though the max speed is good I am still not getting close to the 500hz target


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Edit for Ino though the max speed is good I am still not getting close to the 500hz target


This is an aggregate of hertz, so you will never get constant 500hz. It will always vary depending on how much movement there is.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> Edit for Ino though the max speed is good I am still not getting close to the 500hz target


That max speed looks very good actually, better than on my pads. Which one did you use for that test?


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That max speed looks very good actually, better than on my pads. Which one did you use for that test?


QCK RED


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> QCK RED


Dammit, all red pads are too small for me


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Dammit, all red pads are too small for me


My thoughts exactly before the qck buy
But it turns out that it's an ideal size for my Zowie fk and for my desk
I will grab a picture 1sec

Took my old iPod so you can see the size


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> My thoughts exactly before the qck buy
> But it turns out that it's an ideal size for my Zowie fk and for my desk
> I will grab a picture 1sec
> 
> Took my old iPod so you can see the size


Is small.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> Is small.


the mouse is too


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> the mouse is too


Seriously speaking: it's decent sized and enough for most people, but I think with semi-low sens you could appreciate a bit of extra space. Never mind true low sensitivity, which Ino uses AFAIK.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yeah, I guess it's better that way on the FK, because otherwise I'd have to pull it out and plug back in again every time I boot up my PC to get the 500 Hz.
> That's very bad, here's what I get:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/m5nBItX


How did you get such a high tracking speed? I thought the AM had the same sensor.


----------



## Skylit

Variance of hardware output, positioning.. Merely having the same sensor means little.

Not to mention that you shouldn't take enotus as complete fact. You can literally burst spikes that aren't typical.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Variance of hardware output, positioning.. Merely having the same sensor means little.
> 
> Not to mention that you shouldn't take enotus as complete fact. You can literally burst spikes that aren't typical.


Are there any better movement sensing programs? The only ones I could find were on some old articles with broken download links. The fact that Enotus can't actually set the speed to 450 DPI doesn't make it a good max speed test.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Variance of hardware output, positioning.. Merely having the same sensor means little.
> 
> Not to mention that you shouldn't take enotus as complete fact. You can literally burst spikes that aren't typical.


Red mouse pads are King!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Dammit, all red pads are too small for me


Only large one I know of is the Artisan Hien.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Only large one I know of is the Artisan Hien.


http://www.amazon.ca/HandStands-Super-Mouse-Pad-Red/dp/B0009JCUX2

Last time I used this link, they sold these in red. It's about the same size as a Steelseries Qck+.


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Dammit, all red pads are too small for me


artisan hien wine red is the same size as a qck heavy
also, someone on esreality said the zowie-fk lift off distance is slightly higher on red pads (hien red)


----------



## SoFGR

that must have been me

chickenfluGR = SoFGR










LOD is 1cd higher compared to hien black / artisan hayate


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Red mouse pads are King!
> Only large one I know of is the Artisan Hien.


Well, situational. That increase of lift off won't happen with standard lens, rather decrease vs black surface. (typical red LED)

For Zowie mice, sure








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Are there any better movement sensing programs? The only ones I could find were on some old articles with broken download links. The fact that Enotus can't actually set the speed to 450 DPI doesn't make it a good max speed test.


Not that I'm aware of.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What sort of size is your hands? Now that you mention the thinness, it is actually the main thing that I am worrying about, do you think that the width is ok for a palm grip or is it too narrow?


Sorry for the late reply. My hands are slightly wider and shorter than yours.

I can't help you with the rest though, this stuff is way too subjective. I think the FK is borderline too thin for how low profile it is, but the rest is so close to perfect that I'm fine with it.


----------



## royalkilla408

Where can I buy Zowie FK in USA? I can't seem to find it. Also, anyone know if they are going to make one with different color than yellow? Thanks!


----------



## resis

I think FK is too tiny for Americans, so it's not available for sale. The only chance for another colour may be the white version, which wasn't announced yet (if at all).


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I think FK is too tiny for Americans, so it's not available for sale. The only chance for another colour may be the white version, which wasn't announced yet (if at all).


That gotta be the most stupid thing I ever read









And they do sell the FK and other zowie products in places like Newegg, amazon.
Took me a whole 5 seconds to find.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I think FK is too tiny for Americans, so it's not available for sale. The only chance for another colour may be the white version, which wasn't announced yet (if at all).


It's pretty much a modernized Microsoft WMO, and the WMO is great for huge hands.


----------



## Skylit

Both AM and FK are a bit more narrow coming from both IO and WMO. Each of the 4 designs will have their own restrictions.


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I think FK is too tiny for Americans, so it's not available for sale. The only chance for another colour may be the white version, which wasn't announced yet (if at all).


too tiny for americans?
First I sure you are not American because of the way you spelled color (British way)
And what makes Americans different then Australians like me?


----------



## shedokan

Since this thread is popular I must say this

Zowie EC eVo is really an improvement over the first EC in terms of EVERYThing pretty much, even the lightning in the scroll! coming from EC1 G400 DA2013 and now EC eVo, it is easily the best mouse IMO. tracking feels just godlike. DA2013 not worth more than 20$ - peace


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Both AM and FK are a bit more narrow coming from both IO and WMO. Each of the 4 designs will have their own restrictions.


I've only tried the WMO and AM, but they both seem very similar, and both are well suited to large hands. The only major difference was that the sides were sloped inward on the WMO.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aimcu*
> 
> too tiny for americans?
> First I sure you are not American because of the way you spelled color (British way)
> And what makes Americans different then Australians like me?


'Muricans r fat dude XDXDDDD ... Seriously though, I dunno.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



And since we're talking spelling I'm sure you're not Australian because you spelled "than" wrong


----------



## Aimcu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> 'Muricans r fat dude XDXDDDD ... Seriously though, I dunno.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> And since we're talking spelling I'm sure you're not Australian because you spelled "than" wrong


haha
wrote this without looking


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've only tried the WMO and AM, but they both seem very similar, and both are well suited to large hands. The only major difference was that the sides were sloped inward on the WMO.


AM cramps me, WMO does not









All 4 have their own unique properties imo.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

resis was right. The mouse is small for asian hands. People in the US are typically taller and thus have larger hands. There are a lot of us who are complaining that the mouse is too thin and cramps our hand.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> resis was right. The mouse is small for asian hands. People in the US are typically taller and thus have larger hands. There are a lot of us who are complaining that the mouse is too thin and cramps our hand.


Really? I thought this mouse was near perfect for my hand.

I wish they still made mice in the shape of the Microsoft Intellimouse explorer. It seems to be the best for someone with large hands. I'm not really won over by the Ec Evo, and it seems to be the only one out there.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> resis was right. The mouse is small for asian hands. People in the US are typically taller and thus have larger hands. There are a lot of us who are complaining that the mouse is too thin and cramps our hand.


I think it is about more than just the size of your hand. I am just over 6 foot and have relatively large hands compared to most people. Yet I love the size and shape of the FK. I think gripstyle and particular anatomy has a lot to do with it as well. I do not think that it is a mouse for people with smaller hands in general. It is too small for me to palm, but pretty much perfect to claw grip.


----------



## royalkilla408

Hmmm? I checked Newegg and Amazon and both aren't selling it directly. Only through resellers that I have no idea who they are. Only place I found it at is at http://www.gamejava.com but I have never heard of that company. Its recommended by Zowie but I rather buy it from Amazon because its easy to return in case I don't like it.


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Hmmm? I checked Newegg and Amazon and both aren't selling it directly. Only through resellers that I have no idea who they are. Only place I found it at is at http://www.gamejava.com but I have never heard of that company. Its recommended by Zowie but I rather buy it from Amazon because its easy to return in case I don't like it.


I got mine from 3Cworld on Amazon and it got here in 2 days. No complaints at all. I bought the gtf-speed from them also and had no problems returning it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> It is too small for me to palm


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> resis was right. The mouse is small for asian hands. People in the US are typically taller and thus have larger hands. There are a lot of us who are complaining that the mouse is too thin and cramps our hand.


Resis was not right anywhere.
He said it was not on sale in US because its small which is a pure lie.

FK and AM is narrow however, but that have nothing to do where they sell it.
IF it would they would not sell it in europe either.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> I think FK is too tiny for Americans


He's right.

And you guys saying "omg that's not true I can claw grip it so well!" is really silly. You can claw grip almost any mouse.
Both Spawn and Heaton (zowie designers) are 1.6 FPS players. The vast majority (90%+) of CS players use palm grip. I never read anywhere that this mouse was being made for RTS or quake. That's what their mico mouse was for. So we were expecting a mouse that can be used for all 3 grips and can be used for left handed players too. This mouse only satisfies those criteria for people with small hands (IE: asians). The mouse is too thin for most westerners to palm grip it.


----------



## fengshaun

I've had the FK for about a month now and I have to say it's almost perfect! The switches are a tad bit stiff for spamming (I have no problem in SC2 as I don't spam, but Dota 2 is a different story). The coating and the cord are so awesome! I *love* the coating! It feels soft/smooth and non-slippery. The size and shape are perfect for me too (medium-sized hands, I can comfortably grip DeathAdder). I also like the narrow shape.

I'll probably swap the Huano switches for Omrons in the near future.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> He's right.
> 
> And you guys saying "omg that's not true I can claw grip it so well!" is really silly. You can claw grip almost any mouse.
> Both Spawn and Heaton (zowie designers) are 1.6 FPS players. The vast majority (90%+) of CS players use palm grip. I never read anywhere that this mouse was being made for RTS or quake. That's what their mico mouse was for. So we were expecting a mouse that can be used for all 3 grips and can be used for left handed players too. This mouse only satisfies those criteria for people with small hands (IE: asians). The mouse is too thin for most westerners to palm grip it.


What I said was that grip and particular anatomy play a role too (in ADDITION to the size of your hands).

I also think that Zowie communicates that this is a claw grip mouse. This is what is in the product description of the FK (it is literally the first sentence of the product description)

*Zowie FK Pro Gaming Mouse:
The FK is similar to the AM in terms of specifications and features, and they are both ambidextrous mice developed for gamers who prefer a claw-grip play style, but that is where the similarities end.
*

The first bullet point in the list of features in the Zowie shop is
** Ambidextrous mouse developed for claw grip usage*

In that sense, I am not really complaining I cant palm it, when it is being marketed as a claw-grip style mouse (and knowing this, I bought it with the intention to claw-grip it).

I do not know much about which percentage of pro players use what grip, but I am fairly sure that Spawn uses a grip that is more accurately described as a claw grip than a palm grip. He was one player I followed when I played Counter Strike fairly hardcore, and know this because I copied him to an extent. I am sure that if you look for it, you might find a picture of him resting his full hand on the mouse. But this was not his natural/common grip. Not sure about Heaton, but I think this might be part of the reason for the design decisions for at least the AM and maybe the FK.

I am not attacking you, I am agreeing with you. The mouse is indeed too small to palm grip for large or even medium sized hands. All I am saying is that it was never sold under the pretense of being an " all-in-one" kind of mouse (to be honest, I am not sure if those even exist). And I do not think anyone with larger hands should automatically disregard the mouse because of it. What they should do however, is think about what grip they want to use before buying a mouse, and choose one that they think would work for them.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fengshaun*
> 
> I've had the FK for about a month now and I have to say it's almost perfect! The switches are a tad bit stiff for spamming


Yeah, it's a FPS mouse, not made for click-spamming. Wheel and buttons are stiffer than usual (although wheel smoother than the AM). Changing switches looks easy enough.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> He's right.
> 
> And you guys saying "omg that's not true I can claw grip it so well!" is really silly. You can claw grip almost any mouse.
> Both Spawn and Heaton (zowie designers) are 1.6 FPS players. The vast majority (90%+) of CS players use palm grip. I never read anywhere that this mouse was being made for RTS or quake. That's what their mico mouse was for. So we were expecting a mouse that can be used for all 3 grips and can be used for left handed players too. This mouse only satisfies those criteria for people with small hands (IE: asians). The mouse is too thin for most westerners to palm grip it.


Zowie designers. haha... Made me laugh.

While I don't disagree that many or a majority use a palm grip, I do think you underestimate how many gamers actually claw grip, regardless of play style.


----------



## resis

I am average, so I believe the average grip is clawpalm. Palm firm on mouse butt, but fingers are slightly bent so they are not on the mouse, but slightly above it and the finger tips on the buttons.

So technically it is a claw grip, but almost like palm grip.

I can palm the FK (tiny hands but long fingers), but the AM is more comfortable because it is slightly taller (and the wider bottom adds to it too). Still my natural grip is clawpalm with occasional finger tip if need bit more accuracy and slower movement (so it's like natural sniper button







)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Ugh... that is so disappointing ._.

There are SO many claw grip mice (literally every single SS mouse)... and SO many palm ONLY mice... I think the WMO might be the only gaming-grade mouse which can be used for all 3 grips but it only has 3 buttons... oh maybe the razer krait would have qualified but it's not sold anymore








BST's mouse will probably be the only gaming grade 5 button mouse on market that can be used in all 3 grips...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ugh... that is so disappointing ._.
> 
> There are SO many claw grip mice (literally every single SS mouse)... and SO many palm ONLY mice... I think the WMO might be the only gaming-grade mouse which can be used for all 3 grips but it only has 3 buttons... oh maybe the razer krait would have qualified but it's not sold anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BST's mouse will probably be the only gaming grade 5 button mouse on market that can be used in all 3 grips...


They need to make a mouse shaped like the original Intellimouse explorer. That seems like the best claw/palm/fingertip mouse shape. Maybe it's just because I grew up using one.

Strange that Microsoft pretty much hit the nail on the head with those 15 year old mice, and we're getting further from the ideal mouse shapes.


----------



## Krepieresel

sorry friends, i tried to find it in this thread but after 20 minutes of searching i like to just ask it:

what settings are the "best" for the Zowie FK in terms of tracking speed?

i noticed that the sensor of the zowie FK struggles if i move it as fast as i can (QcK+ black). i tested around with counterstrike 1.6 and my settings are 450 dpi / 1000 hz. does anyone have some results with 1150 dpi / 500 hz or something? i tested about every mouse on the market and the zowie FK is the perfect mouse for me in every single way exept the sensor issue with very fast movements :/

thx in advance


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> sorry friends, i tried to find it in this thread but after 20 minutes of searching i like to just ask it:
> 
> what settings are the "best" for the Zowie FK in terms of tracking speed?
> 
> i noticed that the sensor of the zowie FK struggles if i move it as fast as i can (QcK+ black). i tested around with counterstrike 1.6 and my settings are 450 dpi / 1000 hz. does anyone have some results with 1150 dpi / 500 hz or something? i tested about every mouse on the market and the zowie FK is the perfect mouse for me in every single way exept the sensor issue with very fast movements :/
> 
> thx in advance


use a red mousepad. try 1150dpi/1000hz and post back

Στάλθηκε από το GT-S6500 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk 2


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> sorry friends, i tried to find it in this thread but after 20 minutes of searching i like to just ask it:
> 
> what settings are the "best" for the Zowie FK in terms of tracking speed?
> 
> i noticed that the sensor of the zowie FK struggles if i move it as fast as i can (QcK+ black). i tested around with counterstrike 1.6 and my settings are 450 dpi / 1000 hz. does anyone have some results with 1150 dpi / 500 hz or something? i tested about every mouse on the market and the zowie FK is the perfect mouse for me in every single way exept the sensor issue with very fast movements :/
> 
> thx in advance


1000Hz is bugged for all settings except 2300DPI. Set it to 450 DPI and 500Hz and see how that goes. I noticed a fair movement speed increase, but I still was able to cause my mouse to jump on my Qck+.

I really wish they had just put a normal lens in this mouse, instead of a special one to lower the liftoff distance. It's probably the reason why the tracking speed isn't good enough.


----------



## Skylit

Just need to adjust internal clock.


----------



## shuprimo

Do you think is good mouse for fingertip grip?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shuprimo*
> 
> Do you think is good mouse for fingertip grip?


The FK is definitely a good mouse for fingertip grip. It can do just about any grip decently, for me.


----------



## shuprimo

What´s the best mousepad for Zowie FK? Cloth or plastic?

- Steel Series 4hd (PLASTIC)

- Steel Series qck (CLOTH)

- Zowie Swift Hard Surface Mousepad (I don´t know what material it´s)

Which one would﻿ you buy?


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shuprimo*
> 
> What´s the best mousepad for Zowie FK? Cloth or plastic?
> 
> - Steel Series 4hd (PLASTIC)
> 
> - Steel Series qck (CLOTH)
> 
> - Zowie Swift Hard Surface Mousepad (I don´t know what material it´s)
> 
> Which one would﻿ you buy?


What do you prefer? All 3 of those would work. If it was me I would use a qck though. Just make sure it's the black one.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shuprimo*
> 
> What´s the best mousepad for Zowie FK? Cloth or plastic?
> 
> - Steel Series 4hd (PLASTIC)
> 
> - Steel Series qck (CLOTH)
> 
> - Zowie Swift Hard Surface Mousepad (I don´t know what material it´s)
> 
> Which one would﻿ you buy?


Mine tracked pretty well on a Qck+. I'd just go with whichever material you like best, since the mouse tracks well enough on just about any mouse pad, in regard to jitter, and you probably aren't going to be able to go too fast for it on a 4hd.


----------



## shuprimo

What´s the difference between qck and qck+? Just more big or are they made with differents materials?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shuprimo*
> 
> What´s the difference between qck and qck+? Just more big or are they made with differents materials?


The Qck is something like 10" across, the Qck+ is at least 17" across.

Takes up half my desk.


That's the bottom of an XFX warpad being used as a wrist wrest, in case you were wondering.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Mine tracked pretty well on a Qck+. I'd just go with whichever material you like best, since the mouse tracks well enough on just about any mouse pad, in regard to jitter, and you probably aren't going to be able to go too fast for it on a 4hd.


I have a 4HD, and have no problem with jitter or tracing issues. What's that all about...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> I have a 4HD, and have no problem with jitter or tracing issues. What's that all about...


It has a max tracking speed of about 3 metres per second. I double you could possibly go that fast on a 4HD.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

I got 2 m/s that going crazy with with MouseTest, around 1.6 m/s realistically.


----------



## Krepieresel

1.6, or even 2 m/s is terribly bad.

my average is 3.8 m/s on my QcK+ cloth pad with 450 dpi and 500hz. highest burst was 4.08 m/s. this values are in fact "ok", you will never get the line where the mouse struggles in a normal game situation where you are "controlling" the mouse. but dude, 1.6 m/s is trash, you need to edit your settings or probably a new mousepad (i think the mousepad is the mainreason for your bad values).

greets

PS: with my razer deathadder 2013 i get average values of 5.5 m/s ... and thats limited by my body, not the sensor (didnt managed it to move the mouse faster ^^)


----------



## xSociety

I have the g9x and love it. Recently tried out the deathadder 2013 and I'm not a fan, how does the FK hold up to the g9x?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> I have the g9x and love it. Recently tried out the deathadder 2013 and I'm not a fan, how does the FK hold up to the g9x?


The FK doesn't have the acceleration bug that the G9x has, but that's only noticeable at a low sensitivity. The max tracking speed on zowie mice isn't amazing, though; not as good as the G400 . If you don't mind the acceleration and like the shape then there's no reason to change.


----------



## bvazx

About mousepads and Zowie FK...

My FK works fine on "SS Qck Heave" (dpi 450, usb-pr 500 hz, ~3.3 m/s).

Also I tasted FK on "CM Storm Speed-RX", mouse works good on this mousepad (dpi 450, usb-pr 500 hz, ~3.7 m/s). But CM Storm Spawn and Logitech g400 don't work on it...

On "CM Storm CSX Battle Pad DP" FK took these results - dpi 450, usp-pr 500 hz, ~3.6 m/s.
"SS NP+" - dpi 450, usb-pr 500 hz, ~3.2 m/s.

P.S.: In my FK i remove additional prism on lens.
More LoD and dust don't have any influence on sensor' work.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> P.S.: In my FK i remove additional prism on lens.
> More LoD and dust don't have any influence on sensor' work.


What prism? Any pictures of it?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> What prism? Any pictures of it?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


Oh it's the same thing? Strange I did that with the EC2 eVo and it didn't increase the LOD at all.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


Does that increase the tracking speed?


----------



## Skylit

You would need a much smaller diameter of actual eye to increase speed at current height.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> You would need a much smaller diameter of actual eye to increase speed at current height.


That's unfortunate. How difficult would it be to transplant a lens from another mouse into this one?


----------



## Skylit

Not so hard, but you're going to need a dremel and lens from a PAW3305DK-H.

CPI will be cut in half or close to it. I can't guarantee stable functionality.

@ above comment for diameter. I meant magnification, but also relevant to height. Diameter of specific magnification gets larger or smaller vs actual position.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Not so hard, but you're going to need a dremel and lens from a PAW3305DK-H.
> 
> CPI will be cut in half or close to it. I can't guarantee stable functionality.
> 
> @ above comment for diameter. I meant magnification, but also relevant to height. Diameter of specific magnification gets larger or smaller vs actual position.


Not sure if I'd really want to risk bricking my $60 mouse. I was hoping it was just going to be a matter of screwing a new one on.


----------



## irakyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


when you do that, did that increase tracking speed ??????


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi there everyone









After reading a lots of posts, i have a question..
Is Fk the same size and shape as steelseries xai?
I'm asking because i have xai and one of the main reasons i changed it was it's shape.. can someone help me please?
Thanks in advance


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hi there everyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After reading a lots of posts, i have a question..
> Is Fk the same size and shape as steelseries xai?
> I'm asking because i have xai and one of the main reasons i changed it was it's shape.. can someone help me please?
> Thanks in advance


I haven't compared them side by side, but they both seem to have that WMO kind of shape. They both probably have some differences though. The FK and AM are thinner than the WMO, so they might also be thinner than the AM.


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi Art Vanelay, thanks for your fast reply








Is the wmo the same as intellimouse?
Some mates from my work are still using it, and i think it's higher and fatter than xai. I tested it and i could palm it and claw it comfortably








The problem with xai for me was, it was too long for claw, for palming it felt uncomfortable, the back of the mouse rest in my palm and i didn't like it also the mouse felt lower profile so my hand kind have to make a shell... i'm affraid of buying this mouse and then i don't like it (return polices are bad... they only accept if i buy it online)...


----------



## Vikhr

WMO is slightly smaller, IMO feels a bit taller. Neither of them feel anything like the FK and AM imo, they're much more "palm grip" friendly than the Zowie mice in question.

The Xai is larger than the FK, the FK is notably thinner and sits a bit lower than the Xai.
If you didn't like how low and skinny the Xai felt then I don't think you'll like the FK.

Should just get an IMO if you liked the feel of it, nothing on the market really feels like the IMO 1.1.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Is the wmo the same as intellimouse?


No. There's the Wheel Mouse Optical (3 buttons), the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (5 buttons), and Intellimouse Optical 1.1 (5 buttons).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> The problem with xai for me was, it was too long for claw, for palming it felt uncomfortable, the back of the mouse rest in my palm and i didn't like it also the mouse felt lower profile so my hand kind have to make a shell...


Yes, I had the same issues with the xai. The contours on the right side of the mouse made it difficult for me to palm grip and would cramp my hand. Overall the FK is a better mouse than the xai, but it still cramps my hand in palm grip due to it's thinness.


----------



## Snakesoul

They have the wmo at my work







(3 buttons only) I once tested Am but i didn't like the switches and also the lod, the size, wheight and shape were good, not perfect but good







... i read red mousepads increase lod and fk's switches are easier to press.. that's why i'm havning some curiosity on testing fk..
Also i keep my eye on roccat kone pure optical but it think it's a little small for my hand... sorry for offtopic..
I tend to claw when i work but for gaming, especially fps i palm


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> They have the wmo at my work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (3 buttons only) I once tested Am but i didn't like the switches and also the lod, the size, wheight and shape were good, not perfect but good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... i read red mousepads increase lod and fk's switches are easier to press.. that's why i'm havning some curiosity on testing fk..
> Also i keep my eye on roccat kone pure optical but it think it's a little small for my hand... sorry for offtopic..
> I tend to claw when i work but for gaming, especially fps i palm


Why wouldn't you want a low LOD? I've found no negatives to it, personally.

The buttons on the AM are definitely a preference thing. I personally like huano switches.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Why wouldn't you want a low LOD? I've found no negatives to it, personally.
> 
> The buttons on the AM are definitely a preference thing. I personally like huano switches.


Hi Art Vanelay 
I think it's because the way i play. i make small swipes to turn especially when playing fps... it's something i got used to with g400.. i put my mouse on a strange position.. With AM as far i can recall once i lift it the sensor stopped and i couldn't get used to it... switches are definetely a personal choice... i kind of liked but the lod was definetely my choice to return it... maybe i should've grabbed a red mouse pad to see if the lod increase was more noticeble...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> switches are definetely a personalidade choice...


Yeah, since I switched back to the G400, I've accidentally shot my teammates a lot more, due to the higher LOD and buttons that require so little force. I have to lift my mouse off the pad further, so I bring it down harder, and this ends up making me hit the buttons accidentally once in a while.


----------



## Snakesoul

Sorry for the offtopic, are you using g400 right now Art? can I ask you why did you change it?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Sorry for the offtopic, are you using g400 right now Art? can I ask you why did you change it?


I'm using the G400 for my main computer and the zowie AM for my laptop, since I can't really play well on my laptop anyway.

I hit the malfunction speed on the Zowie a couple of times while playing counter strike. I can only get like 3.2 m/s maximum on it, whereas the G400 will give me something like 4.2-4.7m/s. The reason that the Zowie has a lower tracking speed seems to be because of the lens that gives it a low LOD. I'm using a Steelseries Qck+ as my mouse pad, so you can imaging how fast I would move it normally. It's still pretty rare that I hit the malfunction speed on the Zowie, but it just makes me nervous when I am close to hitting it when doing flick shots with an awp.


----------



## STRAFESTRAFE

Has anyone used Gamejava to purchase the Zowie FK in the US? If they're not reputable, where else can I buy it?

Also, will I run into max tracking issues if I use a 90cm/360?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> Has anyone used Gamejava to purchase the Zowie FK in the US? If they're not reputable, where else can I buy it?
> 
> Also, will I run into max tracking issues if I use a 90cm/360?


Yes you will. How do you even have the space to do that?

I run into problems at double that sensitivity.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I purchased through GameJava on ebay and after I returned the mouse to them they stopped responding and didn't refund me so I had to contact ebay for the refund.


----------



## STRAFESTRAFE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Yes you will. How do you even have the space to do that?
> 
> I run into problems at double that sensitivity.


Aw, that sucks. My mousepad is about 17.5", so I use that for a 180. I've been using an Abyssus, but the shape is so uncomfortable that it hurts my hands after just 45 minutes, so I was looking for a replacement. It's really tough to find a mouse that functions well at that sensitivity though.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> Aw, that sucks. My mousepad is about 17.5", so I use that for a 180. I've been using an Abyssus, but the shape is so uncomfortable that it hurts my hands after just 45 minutes, so I was looking for a replacement. It's really tough to find a mouse that functions well at that sensitivity though.


How can you play at that sensitivity? You can't immediately respond to someone behind you? I just set my entire 17" mouse pad to a 360. I also feel like the gains of low sensitivity aren't really all that significant beyond around 16-18" for a 360.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How can you play at that sensitivity? You can't immediately respond to someone behind you? I just set my entire 17" mouse pad to a 360. I also feel like the gains of low sensitivity aren't really all that significant beyond around 16-18" for a 360.


I use 60cm/360 moving sensitivity, which means my sensitivity in games with ADS sensitivity factors (like BF3) my actual sense while aiming is much lower, even with iron sights or RDS it is around 90cm/360. I find that very good for accurate aiming.


----------



## STRAFESTRAFE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> How can you play at that sensitivity? You can't immediately respond to someone behind you? I just set my entire 17" mouse pad to a 360. I also feel like the gains of low sensitivity aren't really all that significant beyond around 16-18" for a 360.


90cm is pretty normal for CS and scout in TF2, and I've never had any trouble turning. It's just highly game dependent - I'd never play QL at that sens.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> 90cm is pretty normal for CS and scout in TF2, and I've never had any trouble turning. It's just highly game dependent - I'd never play QL at that sens.


Question: Why, of all classes, would you use low sensitivity on SCOUT in particular? IMO that's the class that has most trouble with low sensitivity. I'd imagine dancing around with an enemy scout would be hell at 90cm/360 when you potentially need to perform more than 180 degree turns rapidly to track your opponent.

As you said, Quake players most use medium sens, and Scout is the class that is closest to Quake gameplay. What's the point of using opposite settings for so similar purposes?


----------



## Nilizum

Relax. His 90cm sensitivity make him easy to kill =) Just go behind him or move to the side a little bit


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Relax. His 90cm sensitivity make him easy to kill =) Just go behind him or move to the side a little bit


Heh









I'm just curious since it's not the first time I've seen somebody talk about using extra low sensitivity with Scout.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> 90cm is pretty normal for CS and scout in TF2, and I've never had any trouble turning. It's just highly game dependent - I'd never play QL at that sens.


I would have thought for CS that you would want to be able to turn around instantly, since you only have one life, and when you hear someone behind you, having to take that extra mouse swipe could get you killed.


----------



## STRAFESTRAFE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> Question: Why, of all classes, would you use low sensitivity on SCOUT in particular? IMO that's the class that has most trouble with low sensitivity. I'd imagine dancing around with an enemy scout would be hell at 90cm/360 when you potentially need to perform more than 180 degree turns rapidly to track your opponent.
> 
> As you said, Quake players most use medium sens, and Scout is the class that is closest to Quake gameplay. What's the point of using opposite settings for so similar purposes?


TF2 is a much slower game than Quake, and scout requires the most tracking aim. Low sens benefits tracking more than anything, so it's only natural to use it. Lots of top scouts use very low sensitivities too (dante was at like 38"/360 or something). Also, the vast majority of scout 1v1s don't play out like that - you're mostly strafing in front of each other. It's less tricky to turn when they jump over you than it sounds.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I would have thought for CS that you would want to be able to turn around instantly, since you only have one life, and when you hear someone behind you, having to take that extra mouse swipe could get you killed.


If someone's behind you in CS, you're probably already dead. If you just hear a footstep, you almost always have enough time to turn.

In any case, is my only option the G400?


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> Also, the vast majority of scout 1v1s don't play out like that - you're mostly strafing in front of each other. It's less tricky to turn when they jump over you than it sounds.


1v1 only plays like that when everything is going as planned. If it doesn't, the enemy scout will know you are using low sens and just jump over you or run past you when he gets a chance. You'd have to swipe at least twice to turn around at 90cm/360

But yeah, I can see you still doing fine with 90cm. But why use LOWER sens on scout, after all other classes need to move less so couldn't they also go lower without problems?

I can tell I'm using the same sens for everything.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRAFESTRAFE*
> 
> TF2 is a much slower game than Quake, and scout requires the most tracking aim. Low sens benefits tracking more than anything, so it's only natural to use it. Lots of top scouts use very low sensitivities too (dante was at like 38"/360 or something). Also, the vast majority of scout 1v1s don't play out like that - you're mostly strafing in front of each other. It's less tricky to turn when they jump over you than it sounds.
> If someone's behind you in CS, you're probably already dead. If you just hear a footstep, you almost always have enough time to turn.


It really depends on the situation. Sometimes someone will fire at you when they are at a really disadvantaged position (when you are standing behind something and not end up killing you, so you can still react and fire back.

Quote:


> In any case, is my only option the G400?


The Deathadder 3.5G is known for having an incredibly high malfunction speed.

The Roccat Savu and the RAT 3 optical have the same sensor as the G400 and the Deathadder, so they might be a decent mice.

The CM storm spawn also has the same sensor as the above mice, but I've heard of a few problems at low sensitivities.

You could also look at mice with the Phillips twin eye sensor. I've heard of reliability problems with the RAT series mice with that sensor. That sensor also has some problems with certain cloth mouse pads.


----------



## Vikhr

Most scouts play with a sens that ranges from about 7-20"/360, it's pretty rare to find people using extremely low sensitivities. The only one I can think of right now is Cookye and his sens has been all over the place.
Then again it's entirely preference.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The Deathadder 3.5G is known for having an incredibly high malfunction speed.
> 
> The Roccat Savu and the RAT 3 optical have the same sensor as the G400 and the Deathadder, so they might be a decent mice.
> 
> The CM storm spawn also has the same sensor as the above mice, but I've heard of a few problems at low sensitivities.


The Savu at least is decent, it has negaccel at 4m/s and you can tape fix the LOD to <2cds which is typical for the sensor I think.

It feels a lot like a mini G400 though, so if you love or hate that mouse you probably won't feel any different about the Savu.

I've always assumed that the RAT 3 is pretty bad since no one around here really talks about it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> I've always assumed that the RAT 3 is pretty bad since no one around here really talks about it.


the RAT 3 has no angle snapping, so I assume the creators at least somewhat knew what was needed for a good mouse. I just assume that no one talks about it because it is weird shaped and the higher numbered RAT mice have doppler sensors, so they are focused on more. The doppler sensor RAT series mice seem to have reliability problems anyway.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> 1v1 only plays like that when everything is going as planned. If it doesn't, the enemy scout will know you are using low sens and just jump over you or run past you when he gets a chance. You'd have to swipe at least twice to turn around at 90cm/360
> 
> But yeah, I can see you still doing fine with 90cm. But why use LOWER sens on scout, after all other classes need to move less so couldn't they also go lower without problems?
> 
> I can tell I'm using the same sens for everything.


1v1 in competitive 6v6 matches almost always play out like this. I've lowered my sens to the 60cm/360 for the exact same reason. Scout needs the most precise aim of all standard classes (scout, soldier, demoman, medic), so low sens worked best for me.

90cm would have been great on scout for me as well, but as I'm using the same sens for everything (muscle memory) it would be too low for others, RJs are a pain in the ass even at 60cm, but they still work fine.

I didn't really play comp TF2 for more than 3 years, but back in the day most top European scouts were using a low sens in the range of 40-70cm/360 (bybben, rebeli, maasiina, zerox, skinnie, Arnold,... I forgot most other names)


----------



## blainemono

*My short review*

Now that I actually gave the mouse a good try (1,5 months of usage) I can say this mouse is a huge disappointment and that I'm throwing it away. I really wanted it to work as it had great potential (ambidexterous, not very heavy, no gimmicks, avago adns-3090, side buttons).

This is the last time I'm buying a mouse based on overclock user reviews. Opinions on this mouse are so biased I'm starting to think many users on this forum are Zowie employees or just incompetent. And I know it's kinda harsh and am sorry but I can't belive why there weren't any objective posts listing all the faults this mouse has after the mouse was already on the market for some time. And flaws of this mouse are very obvious and undeniable.

Flaws:

mouse doesn't hold stable Hz. This was also the case for AM. How could they not fix this- I don't know. How could all overclock reviews in this thread not mention this before one of my earlier posts- I don't know.
the mouse has too low LOD- it has problems tracking on many mousepads including QCK Heavy. Low LOD is nice and all but they clearly overdid it. Even if you don't agree read the next point.
terrible mouse feet- they are super low and the mouse drags on all cloth pads and definately isn't as smooth as other mice. If you try to correct that by applying thicker mouse feet you are going to destroy the tracking on this mouse- the mouse suddenly has issues tracking, it's DPI changes etc. So even if you think default low LOD is not a fault (which it is), you are stuck with the default thickness of the mouse feet which is terrible. This clearly shows the terrible design and they had time to learn from AM.
last issue is arguable: the mouse shape is very overrated. Please look at the posts in this thread and search how many people mention this mouse cramps their hand but otherwise it is a perfect shape. LOL. If it cramps your hand it means the shape doesn't suit you at all. I also have this problem with FK after few hours but no other mice that I have (g100s, abyssus, xai) does that. Pure and simple: this mouse is too long for small hand users and it is too narrow for medium and large hand users.
Good things about this mouse:

best cable there is, doesn't drag and isn't as heavy as braided cables and is very flexible and light but seems also solid.
very good build quality (doesn't feel cheap like razer products or g100s)
adns-3090 sensor (but it is destroyed by the lens they used)
biased: I like huano switches (feel more responsive then omron)
no marketing bs
For me this mouse had huge potential and it did feel like a quality product by first look. Negative points that I've made are undeniable and they are enough to destroy all the potential this mouse had. 4th one is my observation but if you check the thread you will find that it is valid. There is no mouse that has so many users that say it cramps their hand like Zowie FK. If you are thinking about buying this mouse- don't listen to all the fanboys and do not buy this mouse unless you are comfortable with the flaws which are in my opinion to large to ignore.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> [*] terrible mouse feet- they are super low and the mouse drags on all cloth pads and definately isn't as smooth as other mice. If you try to correct that by applying thicker mouse feet you are going to destroy the tracking on this mouse- the mouse suddenly has issues tracking, it's DPI changes etc. So even if you think default low LOD is not a fault (which it is), you are stuck with the default thickness of the mouse feet which is terrible. This clearly shows the terrible design and they had time to learn from AM.


I always thought the feet on it were fine. Even on my really squishy XFX warpad, they were fine.


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> *My short review*
> [*] the mouse has too low LOD- it has problems tracking on many mousepads including QCK Heavy. Low LOD is nice and all but they clearly overdid it. Even if you don't agree read the next point.


If you remove additional prism on lens this problem have gone and you will be pleasantly surprised...
Without this prism dust don't influence on sensor' work. I use FK and Qck Heavy. It's OK!


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I always thought the feet on it were fine. Even on my really squishy XFX warpad, they were fine.


The stock feet on recent mice (AM/FK) are way too thin; center body actually drags.

Replacement feet it comes with were a bit thicker.

I noted removing the custom positioner as the mouse did have random ripple on specific pads such as the artisan hien.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The stock feet on recent mice (AM/FK) are way too thin; center body actually drags.
> 
> Replacement feet it comes with were a bit thicker.


I've never noticed that. I never even realized how thin the feet were. Seems to glide along my mouse pads pretty well, regardless.


----------



## Skylit

Mentioned recent as it might be a bit situational depending on purchase date.

Older mice pictured (early stock or even samples) have thicker stock feet. Bit of speculation can be done from there.


----------



## RegalX

my zowie fk works great on the talent but for some reason my deathadder 2k13 randomly malfunction on it with zowie gtf it dosent happen at all though and that with firmware installed


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> *My short review*
> 
> Now that I actually gave the mouse a good try (1,5 months of usage) I can say this mouse is a huge disappointment and that I'm throwing it away. I really wanted it to work as it had great potential (ambidexterous, not very heavy, no gimmicks, avago adns-3090, side buttons).
> 
> This is the last time I'm buying a mouse based on overclock user reviews. Opinions on this mouse are so biased I'm starting to think many users on this forum are Zowie employees or just incompetent. And I know it's kinda harsh and am sorry but I can't belive why there weren't any objective posts listing all the faults this mouse has after the mouse was already on the market for some time. And flaws of this mouse are very obvious and undeniable.
> 
> Flaws:
> 
> mouse doesn't hold stable Hz. This was also the case for AM. How could they not fix this- I don't know. How could all overclock reviews in this thread not mention this before one of my earlier posts- I don't know.
> the mouse has too low LOD- it has problems tracking on many mousepads including QCK Heavy. Low LOD is nice and all but they clearly overdid it. Even if you don't agree read the next point.
> terrible mouse feet- they are super low and the mouse drags on all cloth pads and definately isn't as smooth as other mice. If you try to correct that by applying thicker mouse feet you are going to destroy the tracking on this mouse- the mouse suddenly has issues tracking, it's DPI changes etc. So even if you think default low LOD is not a fault (which it is), you are stuck with the default thickness of the mouse feet which is terrible. This clearly shows the terrible design and they had time to learn from AM.
> last issue is arguable: the mouse shape is very overrated. Please look at the posts in this thread and search how many people mention this mouse cramps their hand but otherwise it is a perfect shape. LOL. If it cramps your hand it means the shape doesn't suit you at all. I also have this problem with FK after few hours but no other mice that I have (g100s, abyssus, xai) does that. Pure and simple: this mouse is too long for small hand users and it is too narrow for medium and large hand users.
> Good things about this mouse:
> 
> best cable there is, doesn't drag and isn't as heavy as braided cables and is very flexible and light but seems also solid.
> very good build quality (doesn't feel cheap like razer products or g100s)
> adns-3090 sensor (but it is destroyed by the lens they used)
> biased: I like huano switches (feel more responsive then omron)
> no marketing bs
> For me this mouse had huge potential and it did feel like a quality product by first look. Negative points that I've made are undeniable and they are enough to destroy all the potential this mouse had. 4th one is my observation but if you check the thread you will find that it is valid. There is no mouse that has so many users that say it cramps their hand like Zowie FK. If you are thinking about buying this mouse- don't listen to all the fanboys and do not buy this mouse unless you are comfortable with the flaws which are in my opinion to large to ignore.


Regarding your flaws list:

1) why is stable Hz so important? I never experienced any troubles while actually playing games, the feel of the cursor is consistent. Many people have made remarks that the polling rate is unstable, but I've yet to see why that is a bad thing in general
2) and 3) LOD is extremely low, yes, however on both my NP+ and my Talent I didn't have any troubles with tracking nor with dragging/mouse feet. I was afraid that the feet would be way too thin (like on my Abyssus, that one scratches on all my softpads) but they are fine. Maybe I got lucky, but my FK glides perfectly. Perhaps the tolerances for the lower mold are bad on yours, idk.
4) I was afraid about that as well because of my recent experience with the Savu which was perfect in every way other than the grip which cramped my hands. Funny enough my grip on the FK is comfortable despite me having bigger than average hands.

If I had any troubles with my FK I would have said so, was skeptical about Zowie in general before.


----------



## cadger

I have 7.5 inch hands from the base of my palm to the top of my index finger and can comfortably palm the FK. I have no issue with it on my QCK Heavy but I don't use that pad too often. The only mouse that really ever cramped my hand was the DA and the AM after hours of use.


----------



## Vikhr

I haven't experienced any scraping issues with the FK, I did have that problem with the EC1 and AM that I used to own though.
Tracks fine on my Puretrak Talent and Qck+.

Only thing I don't like is the cable, it manages to catch on the edge of my Talent constantly and it creates more friction whenever it rubs against the mouse pad. Would prefer a cable that was either a bit stiffer or one that didn't have a ton of memory.

I really haven't liked the other Zowie offerings I've tried (AM, EC1/2 evo, G-TF Speed) but the FK fixes some of the issues I've had with certain mice like the AM.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Only thing I don't like is the cable, it manages to catch on the edge of my Talent constantly and it creates more friction whenever it rubs against the mouse pad. Would prefer a cable that was either a bit stiffer or one that didn't have a ton of memory.


You could heat up some water to place the cable in it for a short time. Use your fingers to slide the length of the cable to straighten it.

I heated the water just before boiling, then turned the stove off. I put the cable in the water after. Don't put in the USB part in the water and don't let the mouse touch the water or pot. Also don't let the cable touch the hot pot where the water isn't. I placed it in for a short time, when that didn't work I put it in a little longer, I continued increasing the time until it started to straighten. You may have to heat the water hotter. Just start low and increase until it works. Just don't make it to hot... I let the mouse dry for a day or two.

My cable is now straight and very flexible. I would like the cable to be a stiffer though, but it is straight.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

If you have the cash, I like my mouse bungee. Solves all the cord issues.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

What mousepads are you guys using with your FKs?


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> What mousepads are you guys using with your FKs?


Artisan Hayabusa


----------



## detto87

Corepad Deskpad


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> What mousepads are you guys using with your FKs?


Steelseries NP+


----------



## Diogenes5

Artisan Hayate.

After using this mouse for over a month now, I have to say it's the best mouse I've ever owned. I came from a modded EC2 evo and quickly modded my Zowie FK. The clicks were ok to me before; far better than the EC2's original switches/clicks and many times better than the AM's stiff switches. They were fairly close to Omron 7n's in tactility but I got use to the D2F-01F Japanese switches.

This mouse is perfect not only for Starcraft 2, where I claw; but also for everyday use, where I fingertouch/palm. It's light, precise, ergonomic, deals with my sweaty hands, and does everything except my homework.

I don't think I'll ever be upgrading from this mouse.


----------



## CIV

I'm about a month in with the FK after years with the G9. This thing is awesome. Took a while to get used to the switches as I burst fire in BF3...I would always leave the target a bullet too soon. Now that I got the count down, i'm back at a 3.1 kdr. I'm gonna get another FK just in case they obsolete these things....like the Logitech did with the G9. Nothing worse than getting used to mouse and then having them disappear on you. This thing is small and light and there's no cursor drag on the lift off. I can just man handle it and it performs perfect. Now, I just need a jet black version to come out and I'll be set.


----------



## Kyal

Buying an AM(it's onsale here for $39, altho dont mind paying extra for FK) currently using EC1 evo but want to see how i go with an ambidextrous mouse. Although not 100% convinced on the AM compared to the FK, I use a kinda wierd claw/palm grip & have small hands. I have my palm on the mouse, with my fingers clawed and 3 fingers on the top of the mouse, 1 on left & right and 1 on scroll wheel(everyone whos seen me use my pc think im weird :c). The EC1 evo is a really good size for my hands for comparison. Which do you guys think would be better?


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Buying an AM(it's onsale here for $39, altho dont mind paying extra for FK) currently using EC1 evo but want to see how i go with an ambidextrous mouse. Although not 100% convinced on the AM compared to the FK, I use a kinda wierd claw/palm grip & have small hands. I have my palm on the mouse, with my fingers clawed and 3 fingers on the top of the mouse, 1 on left & right and 1 on scroll wheel(everyone whos seen me use my pc think im weird :c). The EC1 evo is a really good size for my hands for comparison. Which do you guys think would be better?


I think you made at terrible mistake. The EC1 evo is a large mouse where the shell gives you extra leverage on the awful original huano switches and thus makes them bearable. The Zowie AM has incredibly stiff switches and a narrow footprint, making it slide for many people when rapidly clicking.

Ergonomically, it's very similar if not exactly the same. The main difference is the wider tip which doesn't affect grip much if at all but adds some extra stability.

The Zowie FK literally improves on the AM in every way. I don't think there is a person on here that has said they prefer the AM to the FK after trying both.


----------



## wltr

How does the fk feel in your hand compared to the 1.1?


----------



## Vikhr

Flatter and a bit skinnier, doesn't feel similar at all imo.
1.1 has more support for your hand if you palmgrip since it's a bit taller.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> *My short review*
> 
> Now that I actually gave the mouse a good try (1,5 months of usage) I can say this mouse is a huge disappointment and that I'm throwing it away. I really wanted it to work as it had great potential (ambidexterous, not very heavy, no gimmicks, avago adns-3090, side buttons).
> 
> This is the last time I'm buying a mouse based on overclock user reviews. Opinions on this mouse are so biased I'm starting to think many users on this forum are Zowie employees or just incompetent. And I know it's kinda harsh and am sorry but I can't belive why there weren't any objective posts listing all the faults this mouse has after the mouse was already on the market for some time. And flaws of this mouse are very obvious and undeniable.
> 
> Flaws:
> 
> mouse doesn't hold stable Hz. This was also the case for AM. How could they not fix this- I don't know. How could all overclock reviews in this thread not mention this before one of my earlier posts- I don't know.
> the mouse has too low LOD- it has problems tracking on many mousepads including QCK Heavy. Low LOD is nice and all but they clearly overdid it. Even if you don't agree read the next point.
> terrible mouse feet- they are super low and the mouse drags on all cloth pads and definately isn't as smooth as other mice. If you try to correct that by applying thicker mouse feet you are going to destroy the tracking on this mouse- the mouse suddenly has issues tracking, it's DPI changes etc. So even if you think default low LOD is not a fault (which it is), you are stuck with the default thickness of the mouse feet which is terrible. This clearly shows the terrible design and they had time to learn from AM.
> last issue is arguable: the mouse shape is very overrated. Please look at the posts in this thread and search how many people mention this mouse cramps their hand but otherwise it is a perfect shape. LOL. If it cramps your hand it means the shape doesn't suit you at all. I also have this problem with FK after few hours but no other mice that I have (g100s, abyssus, xai) does that. Pure and simple: this mouse is too long for small hand users and it is too narrow for medium and large hand users.
> Good things about this mouse:
> 
> best cable there is, doesn't drag and isn't as heavy as braided cables and is very flexible and light but seems also solid.
> very good build quality (doesn't feel cheap like razer products or g100s)
> adns-3090 sensor (but it is destroyed by the lens they used)
> biased: I like huano switches (feel more responsive then omron)
> no marketing bs
> For me this mouse had huge potential and it did feel like a quality product by first look. Negative points that I've made are undeniable and they are enough to destroy all the potential this mouse had. 4th one is my observation but if you check the thread you will find that it is valid. There is no mouse that has so many users that say it cramps their hand like Zowie FK. If you are thinking about buying this mouse- don't listen to all the fanboys and do not buy this mouse unless you are comfortable with the flaws which are in my opinion to large to ignore.


Some valid points here good write up. I wanted to add that no mice have solid consistent hz at all times. Although, it shouldn't go above the hz you set it to and I'm assuming this is what you're referring to (it goes above 500 when it shouldn't). Forcing the hz helps, but users shouldn't be forced to use this fix. I've had the same problem with the mouse dragging and I've had the fk since the release.

The shape still comes down to preference. My hand cramped bad using the AM, but I have no problems with the FK. I do think the mouse should be wider through out.


----------



## Skylit

^agree with above's subjective opinion about shape.


----------



## gramz

I just ordered the FK and should receive it next week. Has anyone been able to try the FK out with the Steelseries S&S (plastic) mousepad and can tell me if it works properly? I searched the google and only found one post that stated the FK's sensor is thrown off by the rough unevenness of the S&S. I'm wondering if this is really the case, and if so would anyone know of a plastic pad similar to the S&S that will work well with the FK?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I just experienced some weird tracking issues for the first time today. Made me sad. Tracking issues feel soooo bad. It's the kind where the mouse just seems to skip and jitter in certain places. It might be my mouse pad... but I constantly wipe it off, etc.

Unplugged the mouse and am using it again, issues seem to have cleared up for now. We'll see once I try to game again.

Ah, luckily I did just realize that perhaps it's the sound reverberating from TI3 that I'm watching loudly on my speakers. I've experienced that before, so hopefully maybe that's it.


----------



## Finwens

Hello guys, my zowie fk just arrived. Is there any way to save the DPI settings in different accounts? I like to use 450DPI, but my brother prefers 1150, will we need to change it everytime the other one uses the mouse?

Thanks.

EDIT: Different Windows accounts.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

He'll have to adjust his sensitivity in windows. And of course manually change it using the DPI button.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Finwens*
> 
> Hello guys, my zowie fk just arrived. Is there any way to save the DPI settings in different accounts? I like to use 450DPI, but my brother prefers 1150, will we need to change it everytime the other one uses the mouse?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: Different Windows accounts.


You'll have to change it every time you switch, FK is plug and play without any software. Hitting the dpi button on the bottom twice should be simple enough though


----------



## Finwens

I see, thanks for the replies, guys.


----------



## Finwens

Another question, how did you guys straightened the zowie fk cord? Did you do something or it got normal over time? Mine keeps getting stuck on the table, causing friction, so annoying.

Keep in mind that I've been using this mouse for 2 hours or so.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Finwens*
> 
> Another question, how did you guys straightened the zowie fk cord? Did you do something or it got normal over time? Mine keeps getting stuck on the table, causing friction, so annoying.
> 
> Keep in mind that I've been using this mouse for 2 hours or so.


Didn't do anything special, just make sure that the cable doesn't hang off your desk (fix it with tape or sth). Found the cable to be the best I've seen on mice yet.


----------



## Finwens

Thanks, it worked.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> *My short review*
> 
> Now that I actually gave the mouse a good try (1,5 months of usage) I can say this mouse is a huge disappointment and that I'm throwing it away. I really wanted it to work as it had great potential (ambidexterous, not very heavy, no gimmicks, avago adns-3090, side buttons).
> 
> This is the last time I'm buying a mouse based on overclock user reviews. Opinions on this mouse are so biased I'm starting to think many users on this forum are Zowie employees or just incompetent. And I know it's kinda harsh and am sorry but I can't belive why there weren't any objective posts listing all the faults this mouse has after the mouse was already on the market for some time. And flaws of this mouse are very obvious and undeniable.
> 
> Flaws:
> 
> mouse doesn't hold stable Hz. This was also the case for AM. How could they not fix this- I don't know. How could all overclock reviews in this thread not mention this before one of my earlier posts- I don't know.
> the mouse has too low LOD- it has problems tracking on many mousepads including QCK Heavy. Low LOD is nice and all but they clearly overdid it. Even if you don't agree read the next point.
> terrible mouse feet- they are super low and the mouse drags on all cloth pads and definately isn't as smooth as other mice. If you try to correct that by applying thicker mouse feet you are going to destroy the tracking on this mouse- the mouse suddenly has issues tracking, it's DPI changes etc. So even if you think default low LOD is not a fault (which it is), you are stuck with the default thickness of the mouse feet which is terrible. This clearly shows the terrible design and they had time to learn from AM.
> last issue is arguable: the mouse shape is very overrated. Please look at the posts in this thread and search how many people mention this mouse cramps their hand but otherwise it is a perfect shape. LOL. If it cramps your hand it means the shape doesn't suit you at all. I also have this problem with FK after few hours but no other mice that I have (g100s, abyssus, xai) does that. Pure and simple: this mouse is too long for small hand users and it is too narrow for medium and large hand users.
> Good things about this mouse:
> 
> best cable there is, doesn't drag and isn't as heavy as braided cables and is very flexible and light but seems also solid.
> very good build quality (doesn't feel cheap like razer products or g100s)
> adns-3090 sensor (but it is destroyed by the lens they used)
> biased: I like huano switches (feel more responsive then omron)
> no marketing bs
> For me this mouse had huge potential and it did feel like a quality product by first look. Negative points that I've made are undeniable and they are enough to destroy all the potential this mouse had. 4th one is my observation but if you check the thread you will find that it is valid. There is no mouse that has so many users that say it cramps their hand like Zowie FK. If you are thinking about buying this mouse- don't listen to all the fanboys and do not buy this mouse unless you are comfortable with the flaws which are in my opinion to large to ignore.






The polling rate isn't perfect, that doesn't ruin the mouse though, you can use 1000Hz. The 3.5G DeathAdder has a polling issue to... If you want a stable rate you have to do that via the USB port. That is the best way to use any mouse.

The LOD is to low on some surfaces, on others (like red cloth) the LOD can be ~2.5mm. I have been suggesting a red cloth pad for Zowie Mice for awhile now. If you have read through the forum you would have seen this. You could also remove the lens filter...

The mouse feet are fine when it comes to glide but they are very thin. Most mice actually have thin mouse feet. If you use a hard pad you will not notice it scraping unless you put a lot of pressure on the mouse. With soft pads you will notice the bottom touching the pad. This is something all mice will do. However, because the Zowie feet are a bit thinner than other mice feet, the mouse will have this suction effect onto the surface. This slows the glide but makes it feel smooth. Zowie sells thicker feet. If you use thicker feet on a mouse you will always loose a little CPI, something like 25-50.

The shape is good but the size is not. They used the internals from the AM, so they were limited to the size they could do. The AM is the thinnest [58mm] mouse I would use. The FK tapers to make it thinner at the bottom than the AM. If Zowie would have made a new side button PCB they could have made it wider. They cannot make it taller because they are using a single main PCB. This is why I consider it an "improved" AM. I wished it was like 60mm wide in the middle and 38mm tall.

As long as you are not squeezing the mouse you shouldn't get cramps. I got hand cramps from the DeathAdder -- that isn't a small mouse. I don't get cramps with the white AM because I don't have to squeeze it to lift it. I put some glossy tape on my DeathAdder so I don't have to squeeze the mouse and now I don't get cramps with it.

Most of the things you mentioned can be remedied with a little effort. The only thing that cannot be is the size. If you still don't want it I will gladly accept a freebie.

What I consider major faults with Zowie mice are the old firmware and the custom lens. There is a lot to complain about with the EC mice. I can understand someone throwing away the EC1/2, I almost did.


----------



## quakeas

Couldn't be happier with this mouse, tried three (3!) deathadders 2013, two of them just didnt work at all, second died within a week. No idea why I keep trying razer's products when I know what's going to happen.


----------



## xtraL

I currently own a Zowie AM. The mouse seems perfect other than the LOD being a bit too low for my liking and I'm kind of 50/50 on the stiff buttons. It's fairly comfortable, but I've always had this feeling that this mouse is not the most comfortable out there for me. I've been eyeying the FK ever since it came out, but I am just not sure if the changes, or improvements if you will, are worth my 60 euros. I use a fingertrip grip to hold my mouse and I guess my hands are bigger than average.

Do those of you who have used both think it's worth it?

edit: I can't try it at a store or anything. I can order it online from a Belgian webshop (I live in The Netherlands), so I want to make sure before I have to go through the hassle of sending it back and getting my money back if I don't like it.


----------



## TriviumKM

Any other merchants besides gamejava sell the FK in the states? How's gamejava when it comes to returns?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Any other merchants besides gamejava sell the FK in the states? How's gamejava when it comes to returns?


ESEA


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> ESEA


Thanks


----------



## Krepieresel

its like with everything in this little world... if the mouse is good for you, go with it, if not, try another.

using the zowie AM for over a year now, switched to FK some months ago and all i can say is that its by far the best mouse in my bunch of mice (about 30 different models). im a former CS 1.6 professional and played over years with a intelli 1.1. still going for FPS games in general and i've always been looking for a intelli 1.1 replacement.

after a quick look over the "review" of the hater guy above, i'll leave my 2 cents about the points he doesnt like:

- polling rate isnt stable: in fact, the 500hz polling rate isnt stable but thats no problem at all? i mean i dont care if its 600hz 400hz or 500hz as long as it tracks "exactly". in fact, with polling rate set on 500hz, you get the best results in terms of malfunction speed. i just dont get where the real problem is about the unstable polling rate exept the fact that there are unexpected numbers.

- mousefeet are "terrible" and are too thin: what? its like with every mouse, if you put on custom mousefeet you will have issues with the LOD because the company doesnt expect you to go with thicker feet. i've ordered some zowie teflon spare feet and tested them especially for you, same tracking results on both mousepads (QcK+ / Artisan Samurai Red). with the teflon feet, the feeling is a bit smoother and it glides better. overall i love the low LOD and as long as i get > 4 m/s tracking speed, im good.

last but not least, this mouse is a lightweight. most new mice on the market are > 100grams, that sucks imo. anyway as i mentioned befor - just go with the mouse if you like it, but dont invent pseudo problems.

the only real problem this mouse really has is the fact that the tracking speed isnt as good as it could be - but thats nothing new. with a good mousepad like the artisan samurai red, you will get 4 m/s without malfunction, which is more than enough.

greets


----------



## Zipp

I just got the FK yesterday, but I think it's a bit too narrow and low for me (I'm coming from an EC1 evo which I find a bit too bulky/big) - I really like the lightweight of the FK and I think the coating is perfect for my dry hands - it's the best coating I have tried (don't really like the EC1 evo in rubberized black or glossy white).

But unfortunately I don't think I will get used to the size, so I have been looking at the Roccat Savu - anyone know how this mouse feels in comparison to the FK?

It seems to be a bit heavier at 90g but still lighter than my EC1 evo.

My hand size is pretty average at 19.5 cm from palm base to tip of middle finger and 8.8 cm wide.


----------



## ligist137

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> I just got the FK yesterday, but I think it's a bit too narrow and low for me (I'm coming from an EC1 evo which I find a bit too bulky/big) - I really like the lightweight of the FK and I think the coating is perfect for my dry hands - it's the best coating I have tried (don't really like the EC1 evo in rubberized black or glossy white).
> 
> But unfortunately I don't think I will get used to the size, so I have been looking at the Roccat Savu - anyone know how this mouse feels in comparison to the FK?
> 
> It seems to be a bit heavier at 90g but still lighter than my EC1 evo.
> 
> My hand size is pretty average at 19.5 cm from palm base to tip of middle finger and 8.8 cm wide.


I had the same experience with the FK, too narrow and too low. My hand started to cramp after using it for an hour or so. But I liked the weight, the great sensor and the overall build quality so I tried the AM-FG and that mouse was spot on. It fits my hand (about the same size as yours) perfectly.


----------



## oMalakai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> ... The Zowie AM has incredibly stiff switches ...


I´m just plain bored of reading that. Seriously, when I read that type of comments, I was scared that they were too stiff, but when my AM-Gs arrived, it wasn´t at all terrible.
They are incredibly stiff....if you just had a manicure or something.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oMalakai*
> 
> I´m just plain bored of reading that. Seriously, when I read that type of comments, I was scared that they were too stiff, but when my AM-Gs arrived, it wasn´t at all terrible.
> They are incredibly stiff....if you just had a manicure or something.


they are a lot stiffer than something like a G400, but I really like that. I am tired of shooting people in the back of the head by accident when I slam my mouse down too hard.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> I just got the FK yesterday, but I think it's a bit too narrow and low for me (I'm coming from an EC1 evo which I find a bit too bulky/big) - I really like the lightweight of the FK and I think the coating is perfect for my dry hands - it's the best coating I have tried (don't really like the EC1 evo in rubberized black or glossy white).
> 
> But unfortunately I don't think I will get used to the size, so I have been looking at the Roccat Savu - anyone know how this mouse feels in comparison to the FK?
> 
> It seems to be a bit heavier at 90g but still lighter than my EC1 evo.
> 
> My hand size is pretty average at 19.5 cm from palm base to tip of middle finger and 8.8 cm wide.


I'd recommend hanging on to the FK for a couple weeks at least - when I first got it the combination of the low profile and thinness really didn't sit well with me either, but now I really like the shape. More than the EC2 and Savu, at any rate.

You're palm grip, right? Savu is claw only.


----------



## Zipp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ligist137*
> 
> I had the same experience with the FK, too narrow and too low. My hand started to cramp after using it for an hour or so. But I liked the weight, the great sensor and the overall build quality so I tried the AM-FG and that mouse was spot on. It fits my hand (about the same size as yours) perfectly.


I don't think I would like to have stiffer buttons than the FK - the left mouse button on my FK is probably the stiffest I'd like to have (for some reason the right mouse button is softer and with much less noise when clicking it) - how do you think the buttons are on the AM compared with the FK? Also, I am not sure about the coating on the AM as I think the coating in the FK is a lot better than the EC1 black.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> I'd recommend hanging on to the FK for a couple weeks at least - when I first got it the combination of the low profile and thinness really didn't sit well with me either, but now I really like the shape. More than the EC2 and Savu, at any rate.
> 
> You're palm grip, right? Savu is claw only.


I think my grip is mostly a palm grip







The base of my palm always touches/rets on the mouse pad - not sure if that is how a palm grip is supposed to be









I am very surprised that you say the Savu is only claw? Isn't this mouse bigger than the FK? On pictures it seems like it would be pretty good for a palm grip.

I just feel that the FK doesn't really support my hand enough - I'm not getting any pain frm using it though


----------



## popups

The AM has a lighter right button than the left. The sound being different is likely from the opening on the left side for the scroll wheel.


----------



## Zipp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The AM has a lighter right button than the left. The sound being different is likely from the opening on the left side for the scroll wheel.


Do you know how the buttons feel on the AM compared to the FK?

I feel like I'm running out of options if the Savu wont work for a palm grip. I also looked at EC2 but not sure if this will also feel too small as the FK considering that its about the same width, a bit shorter but also quite a bit higher..

Don't really know which mouse I should try


----------



## jayfkay

well whatever anyone says.. i play fps since 8 years and the huanos zowie uses are simply too stiff for rapid clicking, so if you have to use semi autos like deagle in cod4 for example or other weapons like a champ, this is hindering ur abilities very much. i mean u can unload the deagle in less than a sec if u can click fast.. but will be hard with huanos.

even the "new" omrons on my g400 were to stiff (cuz of 10m clicks instead of 5m now), so I had to open them and alter the spring and and travel distance in order to make fast clicking acceptably easy..

i find it funny how this is sth that gets completely neglected by mice companies. many ppl told me they couldnt click fast with the g400. it would probably take 2 years of heavy click abuse to create an acceptable switch feeling for a switch designed to last 10million clicks. at least that is my experience.

othr mice like the deathadder arguably have better shell design to allow for faster clicking.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> well whatever anyone says.. i play fps since 8 years and the huanos zowie uses are simply too stiff for rapid clicking, so if you have to use semi autos like deagle in cod4 for example or other weapons like a champ, this is hindering ur abilities very much. i mean u can unload the deagle in less than a sec if u can click fast.. but will be hard with huanos.
> 
> even the "new" omrons on my g400 were to stiff (cuz of 10m clicks instead of 5m now), so I had to open them and alter the spring and and travel distance in order to make fast clicking acceptably easy..
> 
> i find it funny how this is sth that gets completely neglected by mice companies. many ppl told me they couldnt click fast with the g400. it would probably take 2 years of heavy click abuse to create an acceptable switch feeling for a switch designed to last 10million clicks. at least that is my experience.
> 
> othr mice like the deathadder arguably have better shell design to allow for faster clicking.


Maybe you just suck at clicking?









I've always been able to more than max out the fire rate of pistols in CS:GO.

edit: I just got my MX518 that I found on eBay. The clicks on it seem stiffer than the G400, but the G400 seems to have more travel than the MX518, so you can click the MX518 faster.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> well whatever anyone says.. i play fps since 8 years and the huanos zowie uses are simply too stiff for rapid clicking, so if you have to use semi autos like deagle in cod4 for example or other weapons like a champ, this is hindering ur abilities very much. i mean u can unload the deagle in less than a sec if u can click fast.. but will be hard with huanos.
> 
> even the "new" omrons on my g400 were to stiff (cuz of 10m clicks instead of 5m now), so I had to open them and alter the spring and and travel distance in order to make fast clicking acceptably easy..
> 
> i find it funny how this is sth that gets completely neglected by mice companies. many ppl told me they couldnt click fast with the g400. it would probably take 2 years of heavy click abuse to create an acceptable switch feeling for a switch designed to last 10million clicks. at least that is my experience.
> 
> othr mice like the deathadder arguably have better shell design to allow for faster clicking.





The DeathAdder 3.5G has a lot of over travel and pre travel. The shell doesn't feel solid when clicking, it feels wobbly. The DeathAdder 2013 should be better.

Mice companies mostly buy off the shelf switches. They don't create a mold then tune the actuation force of the switches for it. If they did this a lot of mice would feel great.


----------



## zeflow

#1261

If you think the g400's clicks are too stiff, then yes you'll think huanos are too stiff. I can easily click as fast as weapons shoot in cs:go and any other shooter with the fk no problem.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> #1261
> 
> If you think the g400's clicks are too stiff, then yes you'll think huanos are too stiff. I can easily click as fast as weapons shoot in cs:go and any other shooter with the fk no problem.


I can't imagine the G400's clicks being too stiff. I hit them by accident all the time when I am putting my mouse down onto the mousepad.


----------



## 250179

What is the coating like on the fk? Is it soft and smokth like the da black edition, or is it rough and hard like the new da 2013?


----------



## Krepieresel

the coating is something between the zowie AM and the DA 2013.

its very similar to the zowie AM surface but SLIGHTLY rougher... the grip is just fantastic. in my opinion its (by far) the best coating a mouse ever had. the DA2013 is very good too, but i rly dont like the shape and the rubber's on the side of the DA









the FK sticks literally in your hand and its massively easier to raise it than the zowie AM, thats a combination of the shape which makes it easier to lift it, and the new coating. explaining a surface of a mouse is very difficult and most likely not very useful anyway :/


----------



## royalkilla408

I ordered the FK. I purchased Roccat Pure Optical, but I don't like the shape much (getting use to it the more I use it though) and the coating is horrible! So hard to grip the mouse and lift it. The build quality, wheel (one of the best I've tried!), and sensor are awesome though! The sensor is the same as the FK which I really like. I'm sending it back though but not before I test the FK. If the coating, shape, and sensor of the FK are better then I'm keeping the FK. Only wish it had a different option than yellow color.


----------



## TriviumKM

Any other way to get 500 hz stable on this mouse other than using hidusbf? Loving this mouse so far, but 500 is no where near stable.
It jumps from 500 to 1000 constantly causing a weird feeling when following targets.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Any other way to get 500 hz stable on this mouse other than using hidusbf? Loving this mouse so far, but 500 is no where near stable.
> It jumps from 500 to 1000 constantly causing a weird feeling when following targets.


Use 125Hz or 1000Hz.

It jumps rarely on 500. So I never noticed a difference when using raw input.


----------



## 250179

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> the coating is something between the zowie AM and the DA 2013.
> 
> its very similar to the zowie AM surface but SLIGHTLY rougher... the grip is just fantastic. in my opinion its (by far) the best coating a mouse ever had. the DA2013 is very good too, but i rly dont like the shape and the rubber's on the side of the DA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the FK sticks literally in your hand and its massively easier to raise it than the zowie AM, thats a combination of the shape which makes it easier to lift it, and the new coating. explaining a surface of a mouse is very difficult and most likely not very useful anyway :/


If i hated the da 2013 coating do you think i would like the fk?


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipp*
> 
> I think my grip is mostly a palm grip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The base of my palm always touches/rets on the mouse pad - not sure if that is how a palm grip is supposed to be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am very surprised that you say the Savu is only claw? Isn't this mouse bigger than the FK? On pictures it seems like it would be pretty good for a palm grip.
> 
> I just feel that the FK doesn't really support my hand enough - I'm not getting any pain frm using it though


It's pretty much the same size. The curve on top of Savu being so far back makes it pretty awkward to palm, honestly.

Light ambidextrous mice that are larger than the FK:
Sensei RAW
Kana
WMO/IMO

My WMO has a lot more palm support than the FK, so I'd guess the SteelSeries mice are similar. One of those should work you if you're not looking for perfection.


----------



## blainemono

Since I don't really use the mouse now because of some flaws that I listed in my review and settling on Logitech g100s, I'm willing to mod it and risk it getting foobared. One of the things I dislike about this mouse is thin mousefeet and very low lift off distance combo.

I want to remove the light filter in the kingsys lense and apply higher mousefeet (0.6mm). Does anyone know if removing the filter causes some other effects than making the lift off distance higher? Also I'd really apprieciate some instructions on how to do this, I'm not sure which part am I suppose to remove.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> Since I don't really use the mouse now because of some flaws that I listed in my review and settling on Logitech g100s, I'm willing to mod it and risk it getting foobared. One of the things I dislike about this mouse is thin mousefeet and very low lift off distance combo.
> 
> I want to remove the light filter in the kingsys lense and apply higher mousefeet (0.6mm). Does anyone know if removing the filter causes some other effects than making the lift off distance higher? Also I'd really apprieciate some instructions on how to do this, I'm not sure which part am I suppose to remove.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510

There is a side effect. If you do the foil thing, as I did, it will be fine.


----------



## Krepieresel

gabsonuro, yes you will probably like it if you liked the coating of the AM.

the DA 2013 coating is very special and unique on the market (as far as i know)...


----------



## Snakesoul

Well just order it, and should receive it tomorrow







maybe it's time to retire my G400? (besides i don't like zowie's steps, i think if the shape is right, i can adjust sensitivity...) G400 is a great mouse, perfect tracking for me and for my kind of play, but it always felt a bit heavy\big (not to say it's horrible right lip that sometimes makes my pinky numb...)
I'll see how it tracks on my pad... if i feel it's LOD is too high, maybe i'll buy a red mousepad... Any good brand besides artisan? (maybe ozone? they have some red mousepads, it will track any good?)


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well just order it, and should receive it tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe it's time to retire my G400? (besides i don't like zowie's steps, i think if the shape is right, i can adjust sensitivity...) G400 is a great mouse, perfect tracking for me and for my kind of play, but it always felt a bit heavy\big (not to say it's horrible right lip that sometimes makes my pinky numb...)
> I'll see how it tracks on my pad... if i feel it's LOD is too high, maybe i'll buy a red mousepad... Any good brand besides artisan? (maybe ozone? they have some red mousepads, it will track any good?)


Zowie FK already has really low LOD, and from what other's have said, a red pad raises it's LOD a tad bit, not lower's it.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well just order it, and should receive it tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe it's time to retire my G400? (besides i don't like zowie's steps, i think if the shape is right, i can adjust sensitivity...) G400 is a great mouse, perfect tracking for me and for my kind of play, but it always felt a bit heavy\big (not to say it's horrible right lip that sometimes makes my pinky numb...)
> I'll see how it tracks on my pad... if i feel it's LOD is too high, maybe i'll buy a red mousepad... Any good brand besides artisan? (maybe ozone? they have some red mousepads, it will track any good?)








Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Zowie FK already has really low LOD, and from what other's have said, a red pad raises it's LOD a tad bit, not lower's it.






Red raises LOD with the Zowie mice because of the lens. The lens is different than standard.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Zowie FK already has really low LOD, and from what other's have said, a red pad raises it's LOD a tad bit, not lower's it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> Red raises LOD with the Zowie mice because of the lens. The lens is different than standard.


Well that's the idea







raising up LOD







from what i read, almost every mousepad that isn't black would raise it (blue\light blue, red, pink, white)... but correct me if i'm wrong please


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well that's the idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> raising up LOD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from what i read, almost every mousepad that isn't black would raise it (blue\light blue, red, pink, white)... but correct me if i'm wrong please


I think they wanted LOD with their mice to be very low on black cloth. So a lot of cloth pads that are not black raise LOD a "little" or a "lot". Though, I never tried white before. I don't know any all white pads.


----------



## Snakesoul

Thanks for you reply popups







hopefully i'll get my mouse tomorrow and i can post some feedback how it behaves on my mousepad (using an black ozone). If i don't like LOD (besides it's shape, buying this mouse based on some comments here on OCN, and i'm not sure i'll like it or it's going to be comfortable, after having a bad experience with xai, hand cramping), i'll try to buy a red or blue mousepad, if i can find any on a pc store near my house..


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for you reply popups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hopefully i'll get my mouse tomorrow and i can post some feedback how it behaves on my mousepad (using an black ozone). If i don't like LOD (besides it's shape, buying this mouse based on some comments here on OCN, and i'm not sure i'll like it or it's going to be comfortable, after having a bad experience with xai, hand cramping), i'll try to buy a red or blue mousepad, if i can find any on a pc store near my house..


If you want higher LOD without buying a special mouse pad you can take of the lens filter/reflector. That would be the better way to go. You never know if the mouse pad is going to work like you want it to until you test it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


----------



## blainemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you want higher LOD without buying a special mouse pad you can take of the lens filter/reflector. That would be the better way to go. You never know if the mouse pad is going to work like you want it to until you test it.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


You mentioned that there is a side effect of that- mouse feels delayed when changing direction. Why do you recommend removing the lense then if this (supposedly) creates a delay which is a far worse of a thing even than too low lift-off? I'm really curious about this and will probably try it myself but I'm still waiting for a new pad I ordered to see if the lift off is any better than on black QCK.

Also can removing the filter be easly reverted without using any tools or anything? How is the filter part connected to the rest of the lens?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> You mentioned that there is a side effect of that- mouse feels delayed when changing direction. Why do you recommend removing the lense then if this (supposedly) creates a delay which is a far worse of a thing even than too low lift-off? I'm really curious about this and will probably try it myself but I'm still waiting for a new pad I ordered to see if the lift off is any better than on black QCK.
> 
> Also can removing the filter be easly reverted without using any tools or anything? How is the filter part connected to the rest of the lens?


I think you have to break it off, so no going back from that.


----------



## Skylit

Nah, just pops out. Female/male insert. It's a reversible process if desired.

I haven't experienced a "delay", nor see how thats possible. Characteristics of path is another story.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you want higher LOD without buying a special mouse pad you can take of the lens filter/reflector. That would be the better way to go. You never know if the mouse pad is going to work like you want it to until you test it.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/220_20#post_19358510


I have seen your post, but couldn't understand very well the "foil" part... Did you use that kitchen wrap aluminium foil? or a specific foil?
I'm not going to do that for now, also not very handy to those kinds of work..
first have to see if i like the shape, than dpi steps, and then LOD








(already know that mouse arrived... can't wait to get home to try it out.. i'm at work now, just at evening i'm going to lay hands on this puppy







)
Thanks for your help popups.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> I have seen your post, but couldn't understand very well the "foil" part... Did you use that kitchen wrap aluminium foil? or a specific foil?
> I'm not going to do that for now, also not very handy to those kinds of work..
> first have to see if i like the shape, than dpi steps, and then LOD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (already know that mouse arrived... can't wait to get home to try it out.. i'm at work now, just at evening i'm going to lay hands on this puppy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Thanks for your help popups.





When you take off that piece it changes the path of light. With some mouse pads the light doesn't make it back to the sensor the way it should. Resulting in the sensor thinking it isn't moving, that is the "delay" I am referring to. Also, depending on the pad, it can skip/jitter because of what I just explained. All of this is solved when you use the foil.

I use normal foil you get at the store. I made sure to take out any wrinkles, so the light bounces off nicely. All you need is some thin tape, foil and a needle. The needle is to help bend the foil into place. Maybe you can do it without the the needle... The picture in that post shows the angle and size to copy for best results.

The piece is a separate part of the lens that snaps into place. So, you can always put it back. Taking it off will also help with cleaning the lens.


----------



## Snakesoul

So got this mouse yesterday, and here's my inicial and personnal info








Played a couple of hours with it on cs source and BF3, and so far i like it...
Can't say it's my dream mouse (especially because of dpi), but for now i'm still adjusting to shape and dpi steps ( i can say 100% sure if only it had the 800dpi step it would be perfect







)...
It's shape it's comfortable to palm grip for medium hands, doesn't make my hand cramp (at least for now) and i can place my ring and pinkie finger in the right side easily, the clicks feel crispy, and scrollwheel is ok (for some reason it feels a bit "heavier" to scroll up than down, but maybe it's because we tend to scroll more down than up?... and it's still new).
LOD isn't a big deal like i was a little bit affraid and i kind of like it.
The side buttons are a little strange, they should be more noticeable (like deathadder or g400), but again i only used it for a couple of hours..
Cable is good, but aparentely, it's difficult to stay straight lol
So now i got a question







i have a 120hz monitor, which polling rate should i use, 500 or 1000? just asking because on g400 i had it default and it was great (compared to DA on 1000, it didn't feel the same, kind of laggy..)


----------



## popups

The scroll wheel has two springs on each end. Depending on the QC they can have different strength.

I want to experiment with weakening the spring and removing the play with the scroll wheel. This should give me an easier scroll and a better feel. Similar to a mechanical.

I think Zowie could improve the design and make it a nice wheel if they wanted to.



The cable can be straightened with a certain technique you may not want to do. It involves heat... I did it. The cable came out more flexible and I was able to straighten it well.

Use it on 1000Hz to get "stable" polling compared to the 500Hz setting. The 500Hz setting isn't bad. The 125Hz setting should be good if you want to use it. The polling rates you use are not to important unless you are using raw input and a low (input) latency monitor. Having a 120Hz monitor doesn't mean you have a low input latency monitor. If you have something like a BenQ -- 500Hz or 1000Hz is good.


----------



## Snakesoul

Thanks for your reply popups







i read your way to cable straight and it's a little bit difficult to do







not that i can't do it, but it's a little bit risky








Well i'm using it at 1000hz (have a benq monitor) and i don't see any problem...but i'm not that picky (comparing to shape).
The only problem i see right now is making this mouse playable on available dpi... :S i usually play 800dpi and 2 sens - G400. At cs source and i do pretty well, but with zowie it's kind of hard to get the mouse work like before (the test i did and i think it's the right one, is to shoot one spot, place mouse on the left of mouse pad, go all the way to the right, shoot again, all of this with G400 and then change to zowie, decrease sensitivity to see if i can get near the 2nd shot...is this method correct?)


----------



## popups

You can use Enotus to measure the G400 and FK's CPI.

Take the CPI number of the G400, your in-game sensitivity and multiply them. Take that new number and divide it by the FK's CPI. This will give you the new sensitivity.


----------



## dstrk

which is better to handle palm sweating between kana (black) and zowie fk?


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can use Enotus to measure the G400 and FK's CPI.
> 
> Take the CPI number of the G400, your in-game sensitivity and multiply them. Take that new number and divide it by the FK's CPI. This will give you the new sensitivity.


Hello popups,

Once again thanks for your help









I already did that (800dpi G400 X 2 sens. in game /450 dpi zowie), but for some reason doesn't feel the same. It felt a bit faster. (don't know if it's because the mouse feels smaller or sensor position), so i lowered a bit..
Honestly i don't know how to use enotus properly, especially, the cpi and smooth.. (would be a good thing if someone posted an how to video







)


----------



## popups

Use a ruler/caliper to measure 4 inches for the mouse to travel. Press start and move those 4 inches. Don't let go of mouse 1 when you move those 4 inches. The number you see before you let go is the CPI.


----------



## Snakesoul

Tried to do the test like you said, and results are a bit different every time i do the test







going out now but when i come back, i'll try some more tests. Thanks again popups


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Use a ruler/caliper to measure 4 inches for the mouse to travel. Press start and move those 4 inches. Don't let go of mouse 1 when you move those 4 inches. The number you see before you let go is the CPI.


The results are different every time for me also, yes I'm measuring correctly.


----------



## popups

If you move a tiny bit CPI goes up or down 10-20. Your human so...


----------



## superior

This is what I got

Model: Zowie FK
Resolution: 400 dpi \bad\
Polling speed: 996 Hz
Max speed: 3.74 m/s (58869 points/s) \excellent\
Precision: 98.2 % (0.29 m/s) \excellent\
Smoothness: 36.0 % \bad\

That's if my mouse from the left starts on the measurement, if I have my mouse to the right of the start of the measurement it varies between 600-800.


----------



## Krepieresel

Snakesoul

im a cs gamer for a decade now and i had so many different mice i cant even remember. but i never had any sensitivity issue since i just go with the rule - how many inches till 360°? so just take a ruler and measure a full 360° spin in CS:GO with your G400. switch to the zowie, do the same, adjust your ingame sens a bit to get the same result like you had with the G400.

you can do that with every game and its in my opinion the easiest and most precise way to have the same sens with different mice. since i use that, its just not important for me, if a mouse have steps like 400 / 800 / 1200 .... or 450 / 1100 ..... or 666 / 1337 ... you just always have the same inches for your 360° turn by adjusting the ingame sens a bit.

hope that helped, greets


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> i just go with the rule - how many inches till 360°?


Yup. Do a 360 spin, adjust until comfortable. That's for a rough accuracy.

For sniper / precision shooting stuff, I just have a few random static target at various distances, and try to get to them as fast and precise as I can. If I undershoot, increase sensitivity by whatever %. If I overshoot, decrease accordingly, until comfortable. A good mouse will have a consistent feel.

I'm no pro, but it serves me well enough.


----------



## Snakesoul

@ Krepieresel and IlIkeJuice

Thanks for your help







I'm no pro either, but i do enjoy shooting and getting shot at games








So one of my main tests is to do what i shared a couple of posts ago, i shoot one point with g400, place the mouse on the left of mousepad, go all the way right and shoot again.
Why? Maybe is placebo, maybe it's me who's becoming paranoid or picky with sensitivity, but if i do the "ruler\measurement" test, most of the times the 360º isn't equal (i think it's because of shape, and also sensor positioning), so i think the way i test is more accurate, of course there's some fine adjustments that have to be made. Also it's difficult to say how much to do a 360º, because i use a mousepad with the same size as ss qck, and as you all know, with 800dpi and 2 sens. in game, you can't do a perfect 360 (there's a few inches\cm to do it perfectly, but for me it's a perfect sensitivity). I think i got used so much to the 800dpi step that now that i'm testing a new dpi, it's becoming hard to adjust to it (and yeah now it's placebo







)
Once again thank all for your help and tips


----------



## popups

If you try to take a different mouse, move it to one side of the pad then the next, it [sensitivity] won't be the same as your other mouse. The size and shape of the mouse is different. You would have to place the sensor right before the surface, then move it all the way to the other side until it goes off the pad. Trying to measure CPI/speed/sensitivity by using a non symmetrical mouse shell will end in failure.


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi popups







thanks for your help and tip. Yes i know my testing isn't the more accurate, but it feels like it







That's what i was talking about, when first did the math test (old dpi x sens. / new dpi) the new sensitivity felt inaccurate, so that's when i remembered to do the test i talked about. But i do know that the test you guys told me to do are better and much more accurate than my own. I'll do it to see if my aim becomes more accurate and get more frags








BTW for some reason, the mousepad i'm using right now (replaced an old ozone normal size to a big size), the tracking and response feels more inaccurate than my old one.. Any reason for this?
Now that i used a bit more, i kind like this mouse, but i would love to put my hands on a roccat pure optical









Edit: Huano switches are a bit harder to press, on pistol rounds..well most of the times i losse lol








Also when i switch for G400 for some reason, after using fk, it feels like i'm holding a potato hehe


----------



## ronal

When using the FK my aim in csgo is not what it should be, I had to switch back to the IE3.0.


----------



## Krepieresel

ronal:

switching from asymmetrical to symmetrical always needs some time to get used to it. i made the experience that one player would barely change the overall shape of a mouse that crucial. people tend to stick with what they used earlier... for me, the intelli 1.1 was the perfect mouse for a very long time - but it had its weaknesses. thats why we are looking for a new one obviously and you may look for a very similar shape first. thats how i handled it, and thats why i cant ever change to a G400, or a DA 2013, or a zowie EC1 and so on... the DA 2013 for example was absolutely perfect, the feeling of the sensor, i liked the coating, the buttons, everything. but i just dont feel comfortable with the asymmetrical shape. so thats maybe why your aim sucks in the very beginning imo ;o) if you really wanna change it (what i highly recommend because the zowie FK is great, the sensor is way better) give it time!

Snakesoul:

If you do your 360° spin you dont necessarily need a mousepad for this test. for example you can just stick some white paper on your desk (3 or 4 in a row if you are lowsenser, but if im right you are a highsenser) and do your test on that surface. you can even use your desk if the surface let your mouse sensor track properly. anyway, important is that your sensor starting / ending point is the same with both mice. that needs maybe some imaginative power ;o) and yes, dont get me wrong, its absolutely indifferent if your spin isnt EXACTLY the same, your brain is tolerant and gets the little sens difference in a second... the only thing you really need time to get used to it is the new shape and the new sensor feeling.

last but not least, playing with a new mouse will ever need customization time, we are creatures of habit... so best you can do is going with the mouse where the first impression was the best in order of shape, coating and some quick sensor tests. and just play, play, play ;o)


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi Krepieresel, thanks for your help and tip, never thought of that "paper" solution, but it makes sense







Right now i'm at job, but yesterday i played a little bit more, and i think sensitivity issue is solved







it's just a matter of playing a few hours more to get used to it.
Right know my issues are the scrolling wheel, sometimes it feels loose and "heavy" ( ithink it's one of con on this mouse...), and also switches are a little heavy especially on pistol rounds.. most of the times i get shot....


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> When using the FK my aim in csgo is not what it should be, I had to switch back to the IE3.0.


Did you adjust for the 50 DPI increase?


----------



## superior

I think I really made a mistake by buying the FK over the EC1, I just can't palm this comfortably, maybe I could find some body willing to do a second hand trade.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> I think I really made a mistake by buying the FK over the EC1, I just can't palm this comfortably, maybe I could find some body willing to do a second hand trade.


Can't you return it? 7 days cool down period for internet purchases. Consumer rights, ect...


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> ronal:
> 
> switching from asymmetrical to symmetrical always needs some time to get used to it. i made the experience that one player would barely change the overall shape of a mouse that crucial. people tend to stick with what they used earlier... for me, the intelli 1.1 was the perfect mouse for a very long time - but it had its weaknesses. thats why we are looking for a new one obviously and you may look for a very similar shape first. thats how i handled it, and thats why i cant ever change to a G400, or a DA 2013, or a zowie EC1 and so on... the DA 2013 for example was absolutely perfect, the feeling of the sensor, i liked the coating, the buttons, everything. but i just dont feel comfortable with the asymmetrical shape. so thats maybe why your aim sucks in the very beginning imo ;o) if you really wanna change it (what i highly recommend because the zowie FK is great, the sensor is way better) give it time!
> 
> last but not least, playing with a new mouse will ever need customization time, we are creatures of habit... so best you can do is going with the mouse where the first impression was the best in order of shape, coating and some quick sensor tests. and just play, play, play ;o)





I guess I am special when it comes to adapting. I can switch between: Diamondback, DeathAdder BE, AM-FG, white EC1, white Kana, white EC2 and DeathAdder 3.5G. My performance is consistent regardless. I do have problems with switching often. Rather the mice do. Some mice are a lot easier to maintain my performance with, while others are more difficult.

I put sensor foremost -- with exception of the Kana. As long as the sensor is good I can live with the mouse, that is if it doesn't do anything too unacceptable. Eventually, I will use one mouse more than the rest because it isn't as much of a burden. You have to learn to live with it. I have yet to see a mouse that will give someone everything in one package, that includes BST's mouse.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Did you adjust for the 50 DPI increase?


I tested multiple sensitivities on the FK and no matter what the IE3.0 feels faster and smoother.


----------



## tensionz

People need to stop trying to EXACTLY copy their sens from an old mouse to a different one. The DPI, Hz, Sensor doesn't just change/feel different...but the weight and shape of the 2nd mouse will play a part in movement speed as well. Just try new settings until you personally feel comfortable as you did with the old mouse.


----------



## CorruptBE

I always calculate the exact settings and then tinker with it. Per example if the calculation gives me a sensitivity of 2.3, you'll see me adjusting to 2.25 or 2.35 or even 2.0 or 2.4 if necessary in the course of a few days. Just use the calculation as a guideline.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I tested multiple sensitivities on the FK and no matter what the IE3.0 feels faster and smoother.


It should feel smoother if you have a 9000 frame per second version of the Intellimouse. The sensitivity/speed, if setup properly, should be the same.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tensionz*
> 
> People need to stop trying to EXACTLY copy their sens from an old mouse to a different one.


Using the same speed for all my mice is how I stay consistent.


----------



## Snakesoul

Well i did exactly what Krepieresel and popups said, and i'm doing ok







sometimes also do like CorruptBE, tweak my sensitivity a little so i can feel more comfortable...


----------



## popups

Initial out of box impressions of the Zowie FK:


There is a *MAJOR* flaw with the design of the mold. (Regards the top shell and middle shell relationship)
Shape makes it difficult to press mouse 5.
Feels more solid of a build than AM and EC.
Main switches are stiffer than my AM-FG.
Side switches are lighter than my AM-FG.
For my hands the coating is not as good as the glossy Zowie mice, but better than DeathAdder BE.
I am pretty bummed about the mold design issues. I would say the AM is better in this regard. I cannot believe "testers" couldn't notice such an issue with the shell. In just 1 minute (I'm not BSing) of taking the FK out of the box I spot the issue.

I will play a few hours before I post more detailed stuff.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Initial out of box impressions of the Zowie FK:
> 
> 
> There is a *MAJOR* flaw with the design of the mold. (Regards the top shell and middle shell relationship)
> Shape makes it difficult to press mouse 5.
> Feels more solid of a build than AM and EC.
> Main switches are stiffer than my AM-FG.
> Side switches are lighter than my AM-FG.
> For my hands the coating is not as good as the glossy Zowie mice, but better than DeathAdder BE.
> I am pretty bummed about the mold design issues. I would say the AM is better in this regard. I cannot believe "testers" couldn't notice such an issue with the shell. In just 1 minute (I'm not BSing) of taking the FK out of the box I spot the issue.
> 
> I will play a few hours before I post more detailed stuff.


Hi popups,

Nice to know you already got this mouse








About mouse 5, i already shared that that.. Please share with us your thoughts about, scroll wheel and also switches while gaming








For some reason today i didn't felt comfortable with shape. (and my main problem are in pistol rounds.. switches too stiff to press, get killed more often than usual..)
Scroll wheel is becoming a little bit loose, don't know if this is normal...
Going to give this mouse a try a day or two, if some of the problems persists (not comfortable with shape, switches and scroll wheel, i think i'm going to return it







)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I tested multiple sensitivities on the FK and no matter what the IE3.0 feels faster and smoother.


Turn down to 500 hz to improve smoothness. I don't know what to do about it being faster; it might just be due to differences in the sensor or shape. When I switch between my MX518 and G400, the 518 feels faster and more responsive, from what I would suspect is the prediction, but I can shoot a lot better with the G400.


----------



## popups

*Negatives:*


Spoiler: Coating



The coating on this mouse makes my hand sweat a lot! As I sweat the coating gives me better traction. I never owned a mouse that made me sweat like this before. Yes, it does provide better grip than a DeathAdder BE. The coating feels like a chalkboard. I want a glossy version NOW!





Spoiler: Size



Reasons why this mouse doesn't suit standard palm grip users:

From the middle to the rear it is to thin.
Apex is to flat and not tall enough.
Front of the mouse is to low.
Sides have to much of a slant.
Aggressive grooves for mouse 1 and 2.
The rear portion of the mouse is too small. From mouse 4 on back it is too thin. This thinness gives you cramps if you hold it in the traditional (2 fingers on the side) palm grip. If it was wider from that point back it would be suitable for standard palm grip users. From mouse 5 on forward the mouse is wide. This would be fine if the rear was wider -- to give the user a natural grip. Since this isn't the case you will find the mouse (literally) a pain to use.

The top portion of the mouse should be at least 1mm taller by rounding the apex. The top of the mouse is to flat to give optimal support for palm grip users.

The front should be ~2-4mm taller to give proper space for two fingers to rest on the side of the mouse. The sides should not have that bend at the top. Instead the top shell should extend and have grooves like the EC.





Spoiler: Shape



The sides slant way to much to be comfortable for most grip styles. I find them uncomfortable for standard palm, claw and finger tip. Maybe this stems from the thinness of the mouse. Because of the sides, I think SteelSeries mice are better suited for claw or finger tip and the AM is better for palm.

Below mouse 5 the mouse is wider, below mouse 4 it is thinner. This makes it very difficult to roll your thumb upward to actuate the side buttons. I cannot do this technique for mouse 5 because of the increasing width of the sides. I have to remove my thumb from it's natural resting spot to activate mouse 5. For mouse 4 I can do it but it is uncomfortable because the rear is thin. To do the rolling technique I have to pretty much put my fingers on the buttons, yet it is still hard for me to activate mouse 5. It is easy to do this technique with the AM. However, the placement of the FK's buttons is better.

I wished from mouse 4 on back it was wider and shaped like the Intellimouse Optical. This would fill your palm better, which would remove hand cramps. It would also allow you to better lift the mouse.

I don't think the sides need to be that slanted to be functional. It would be nice if they were more subtle to stop the discomfort that occurs with your small finger and the cramp you get in your ring finger.





Spoiler: LOD



With the two pads I used the LOD is under 1.5mm. This can cause many problems for people as they swipe. Also this can ruin tracking with multi colored mouse pads. Don't think about using this mouse on a table, metal or glass surface.





Spoiler: Mold Design Flaw



If you press the top shell down, just above the side buttons, the main button area shifts towards the scroll wheel. It shifts until it hits the scroll wheel area. If you press down on the top center of the mouse the main buttons pass the sides of the mouse.

The result is two potential situations:
1) it stops you from using the buttons. If you press it down hard enough at the right place.
2) The top shell rubs the scroll wheel area while clicking.

Have I notice it to be an issue while playing? It didn't reach the level of non functional. However, it did cause enough movement for me to notice it negatively affecting the clicks. I definitely noticed mouse 2 sticking while I was using it. Mouse 2 is where most of the weight goes since I am right handed. It did affect my game play...






_From my perspective.

This is what happens when you want to cheap out with your new mouse! Zowe should have made a new PCB... They could have came out with a proper design... Who the hell makes their design decisions and who tests these mice!?

I am not sure I want to keep this mouse. I feel like Zowie doesn't deserve my money._



*Positives:*


Spoiler: Build Quality



When I first took the mouse out of the box I noticed how "solid" it was. It feels like a higher quality product compared to the EC, even the AM. The scroll wheel doesn't have that issue the EC does. It doesn't have the (lack of) stress relief issue the AM does. The only thing I have seen so far is the improper installation of one of the mouse feet.





Spoiler: Scroll Wheel



The scroll wheel, compared to the AM, is a lot easier to reach. The AM's wheel is very low down into the shell. Whereas the FK's wheel sticks out of the shell the right amount. There is a nice long area in-front of the wheel to rest your finger, unlike the AM.





Spoiler: Pre and Over Travel



The mouse feels like it has minimal pre travel and a noticeable amount of over travel. Even though the switches are stiffer than the AM-FG, the shell allows me to click faster. That is if I don't experience that top shell flaw. I can click 72-75 times in 10 seconds with the FK, with the AM 66-68 times. It's much easier with the FK.





Spoiler: Cable



Standard Zowie cable. Medium thickness, rubber only / no braid, gold plated USB and stress relief. Doing the warm/hot water technique should allow you to straighten the cable.





Spoiler: Side Buttons



The side buttons are lighter than the AM's. They are closer to the EC in actuation force. The positioning is lower than the AM.

However, the negatives (described in the other section) hamper their usefulness.



*Neutral:*


Spoiler: Main Switches



The main switches are stiffer than my EC eVo and AM-FG. They feel more like the TTC switches in the Kana. I don't know why people think they are lighter.

In GO the switches fit perfectly. They slow you down enough to have great recoil control. I use my EC in GO because of this reason, as the EC has a lot of pre and over travel. I wouldn't be surprised if they chose this switch for this game.

For other games I can see this being a major negative. You will have less clicks per second and you will get tired faster.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Argh... I played a few hours with the FK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Negatives:*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Coating
> 
> 
> 
> The coating on this mouse makes my hand sweat a lot! As I sweat the coating gives me better traction. I never owned a mouse that made me sweat like this before. Yes, it does provide better grip than a DeathAdder BE. The coating feels like a chalkboard. I want a glossy version NOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Size
> 
> 
> 
> Reasons why this mouse doesn't suit standard palm grip users:
> 
> From the middle to the rear it is to thin.
> Apex is to flat and not tall enough.
> Front of the mouse is to low.
> Sides have to much of a slant.
> Aggressive grooves for mouse 1 and 2.
> The rear portion of the mouse is too small. From mouse 4 on back it is too thin. This thinness gives you cramps if you hold it in the traditional (2 fingers on the side) palm grip. If it was wider from that point back it would be suitable for standard palm grip users. From mouse 5 on forward the mouse is wide. This would be fine if the rear was wider -- to give the user a natural grip. Since this isn't the case you will find the mouse (literally) a pain to use.
> 
> The top portion of the mouse should be at least 1mm taller by rounding the apex. The top of the mouse is to flat to give optimal support for palm grip users.
> 
> The front should be ~2-4mm taller to give proper space for two fingers to rest on the side of the mouse. The sides should not have that bend at the top. Instead the top shell should extend and have grooves like the EC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Shape
> 
> 
> 
> The sides slant way to much to be comfortable for most grip styles. I find them uncomfortable for standard palm, claw and finger tip. Maybe this stems from the thinness of the mouse. Because of the sides, I think SteelSeries mice are better suited for claw or finger tip and the AM is better for palm.
> 
> Below mouse 5 the mouse is wider, below mouse 4 it is thinner. This makes it very difficult to roll your thumb upward to actuate the side buttons. I cannot do this technique for mouse 5 because of the increasing width of the sides. I have to remove my thumb from it's natural resting spot to activate mouse 5. For mouse 4 I can do it but it is uncomfortable because the rear is thin. To do the rolling technique I have to pretty much put my fingers on the buttons, yet it is still hard for me to activate mouse 5. The AM is easier to do this technique with, but the placement of the FK's buttons is better.
> 
> I wished from mouse 4 on back it was wider and shaped like the Intellimouse Optical. This would fill your palm better, which would remove hand cramps. It would also allow you to better lift the mouse.
> 
> I don't think the sides need to be that slanted to be functional. It would be nice if they were more subtle to stop the discomfort that occurs with you small finger and the cramp you get with your ring finger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: LOD
> 
> 
> 
> With the two pads I used the LOD is under 1.5mm. This can cause many problems for people as the swipe. Also this can ruin tracking with multi colored mouse pads. Don't think about using this mouse on a table, metal or glass surface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mold Design Flawed
> 
> 
> 
> If you press the top shell down, just above the side buttons, the main button area shifts towards the scroll wheel. It shifts until it hits the scroll wheel area. If you press down on the top center of the mouse the main buttons pass the sides of the mouse.
> 
> The result is two potential situations:
> 1) it stops you from using the buttons. If you press it down hard enough at the right place.
> 2) The top shell rubs the scroll wheel area while clicking.
> 
> Have I notice it to be an issue while playing? It didn't reach the level of non functional. However, it did cause enough movement for me to notice it negatively affecting the clicks. I definitely noticed mouse 2 sticking while I was using it. Mouse 2 is where most of the weight goes since I am right handed. It did affect my game play...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _From my perspective.
> 
> This is what happens when you want to cheap out with your new mouse! Zowe should have made a new PCB... They could have came out with a proper design... Who the hell makes their design decisions and who tests these mice!?
> 
> I am not sure I want to keep this mouse. I feel like Zowie doesn't deserve my money._
> 
> 
> 
> I will post some positives later.


Dear god, I've held back from Zowie for so long because of complaint posts like this only to find that the FK is the best mouse for me at the moment... All these issues are non-issues for me at least!
Top mold for example: I never apply pressure there while holding the mouse in a normal way. And it never "rubs the scroll wheel area" at all for me. If I press on the gap between M1 and M2 of course it forces the button parts to split. But I don't even rest any part of my hand there ever, so it's a non issue.

I've said it before, the size is fine for me doing the traditional palm grip. I don't get cramps at all (contrary to the Savu). I agree with M5 button, but that has been the case for each and every mouse for me because of the position of my thumb in my natural grip. The coating is very good for my dry hands too, I guess if you tend to sweat more it can become an issue.

Never had troubles with the LOD either, kinda like it that low.

I'm really considering buying the AM-GS as well now, because if all the issues people reported there are equally non-important to me it really looks like a great mouse.


----------



## detto87

Really? You're judging a claw grip mouse because it isn't a palm grip mouse? You're not impressed by it. That's fine. But making up flaws isn't fair.

Zowie is advertising this mouse with low LOD and claw grip. And 3 or 4 of your 5 negative points are complaining about the shape/size/form and LOD. I don't understand??


----------



## Krepieresel

I have to agree with Ino's opinion. Fortunately, i didnt hold back getting this mouse ;o)

Popups flaws are not worth mentioning for me neither. I didnt even notice that there exists an issue by pressing down the top shell tbh.

and like detto said, popups main concerns seems to be about the shape and construction, thats purely a matter of taste. i never had such a great feeling holding a mouse as i had with the zowie FK, right after unboxing... it fits my hand and gripstyle perfectly (kinda palmgrip) and the coating is absolutely nice.

if genie would let me design one perfect mouse, i will take about everything out of the zowie FK with maybe one or two little improvements:

- i would take the new 4G optical sensor (like the deathadder 2013 has) - because this sensor blew my mind
- i'd remove the righthanded / lefthanded **** and just give it 4 sidebuttons like the steelseries sensei has (zowie's solution here is absolutely stupid imo)
- the 500hz polling rate would work properly and stable within my new "genie zowie FK special edition"








- the dpi steps would be like 400 / 800 / 1200 / 1600 / 2000 / 2400 / 2800 / 3200
- even if i like the huanos, i would rather go with the omrons on M1 and M2. so genie, i want omrons!

thats the perfect mouse for me..


----------



## Ino.

Ah yeah, about the Huanos: there was so much talk about how stiff and hard they are, almost like you had to build up muscles to press them...

They feel perfect for me! I honestly have troubles going back to Omron mice (like my mouse at work) because I accidentally click right click a lot. That happened to me before too when lifting the mouse and setting it back down again. With the Huanos I only click when I want to. I can understand that this is completely a preference thing, but for FPS (I don't play anything else, so no ultra fast clicking required) it's fine IMO. My clicks per second aren't that different from any other mouse, at least over the short time that these tests go.

Now I actually wish my other mice to have Huanos...


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Dear god, I've held back from Zowie for so long because of complaint posts like this only to find that the FK is the best mouse for me at the moment... All these issues are non-issues for me at least!
> Top mold for example: I never apply pressure there while holding the mouse in a normal way. And it never "rubs the scroll wheel area" at all for me. If I press on the gap between M1 and M2 of course it forces the button parts to split. But I don't even rest any part of my hand there ever, so it's a non issue.
> 
> I've said it before, the size is fine for me doing the traditional palm grip. I don't get cramps at all (contrary to the Savu). I agree with M5 button, but that has been the case for each and every mouse for me because of the position of my thumb in my natural grip. The coating is very good for my dry hands too, I guess if you tend to sweat more it can become an issue.
> 
> Never had troubles with the LOD either, kinda like it that low.
> 
> I'm really considering buying the AM-GS as well now, because if all the issues people reported there are equally non-important to me it really looks like a great mouse.





I have "dry" hands. The coating does not help me lift the mouse like a glossy coating does. I have to wet my hands to get some sort of grip on the mouse. It's not as bad as the DeathAdder BE. In comparison to the white Zowie mice it sucks.

You must have really small hands, a high sensitivity or you don't play for long periods.

The LOD is ~1mm. I only measured it once. It was definitely below 1.3mm. How can anyone think that is a good thing?



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Really? You're judging a claw grip mouse because it isn't a palm grip mouse? You're not impressed by it. That's fine. But making up flaws isn't fair.
> 
> Zowie is advertising this mouse with low LOD and claw grip. And 3 or 4 of your 5 negative points are complaining about the shape/size/form and LOD. I don't understand??





Marketing is marketing. Read Neo's statement about "his" design.
Quote:


> I would like that the mouse would be designed concave in the middle, so that I could hold the right side of the mouse by my ring finger and little finger, at the same time, due to the concave middle of the mouse, the front-end of left and right could extend outward. For this reason, I could cover the front-end of the mouse by my fingers easily, and with this design, it could improve my in-game control greatly. -Neo


I am not making up anything, okay. I am just answering what others wanted.

The mouse isn't the best shape or size for claw, finger tip or palm. The SteelSeries mice are better for claw grip and can even work for (at least my style) palm grip. I was more comfortable using the Kana than the FK. You can go look at my "made up flaws" about the Kana.

I am being totally fair with the Zowie FK. Do you think I want to hate the FK? I wish the FK was better than it is. I will just go back to using my AM.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I have "dry" hands. The coating does not help me lift the mouse like a glossy coating does. I have to wet my hands to get some sort of grip on the mouse. It's not as bad as the DeathAdder BE. In comparison to the white Zowie mice it sucks.
> 
> You must have really small hands, a high sensitivity or you don't play for long periods.
> 
> The LOD is ~1mm. I only measured it once. It was definitely below 1.3mm. How can anyone think that is a good thing?


Coating seems to feel different for everyone, I like it. It's not perfect and I would be fine with glossy as well, but for a rubberized coating it's good (for me).

My hands are 197 mm from base to middle finger tip and 92 mm wide at the palm below the fingers. If that is small then I don't know, it's above average for males at least (Source)

No troubles with LOD. That being said I don't mind higher LOD either, but I don't accidentaly lift my mouse on big swipes and it has never failed tracking for me, not even in Quake where my low sens of 60cm/360 isn't really beneficial.

The point I'm trying to bring across is that these things are all a matter of personal preference, anatomy, playstyle etc. It can't be generalised. Too many people put too much weight into their preferences, I guess in a try to bring the public opinion in line with their own so more mice are made to their preferences. I understand that the FK is certainly not a mouse for everybody, but it is for me. And I'd consider myself picky. So even if it fails to please a larger crowd (which Zowie never aimed for I guess), and is overpriced compared to the competition, it just fits me better than all other mice currently available.


----------



## Snakesoul

Well now that popups mentioned, i notice i sweat a bit more than usual, but hey we're still on summer time and my room is hot...
Still getting used to it, especially dpi (but getting used to it pretty fast) and mouse 5.. noticed when i'm more tired than usual, my grip tend to change and that's why yesterday the mouse felt weird...
After some days of gaming with this mouse i'm 99% sure my mousepad for some reason doesn't track and have some kind of delay on mouse feedback.. is this possible or am i becoming crazy?! .. Mouse tracks and is more responsive on my old mousepad than in the new one.. Same brand different sizes..(ozone btw)
On g400 i didn't notice any kind of those issues i mentioned.

Besides that, i really like this mouse... i guess


----------



## detto87

The only flaw I see in the FK hardware is the bottom of the mouse. Kinda. The feet seem too thin or the middle where the lens is is too fat. The result is that the mouse drags a bit on the mousepad and feels slower than it should or could.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> The only flaw I see in the FK hardware is the bottom of the mouse. Kinda. The feet seem too thin or the middle where the lens is is too fat. The result is that the mouse drags a bit on the mousepad and feels slower than it should or could.


This is the result of the LOD.


----------



## Krepieresel

Quote:


> The LOD is ~1mm. I only measured it once. It was definitely below 1.3mm. How can anyone think that is a good thing?


what? explain please.... you WANT a higher lift off distance? that makes absolutely no sense in a gamers perspective.


----------



## ronal

I'm going to replace my FK after two weeks of usage I just can't get used to the shape. My aiming in CSGO has declined a-lot over the past two weeks when using this mouse. The issue might be with the switches that are just to hard to press, especially during pistol rounds, my aiming is all over the place, and I can't get it steady.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> what? explain please.... you WANT a higher lift off distance? that makes absolutely no sense in a gamers perspective.





If you are a low sensitivity player you lift and swipe a lot. There are times when you swipe the mouse doesn't track because you ever so slightly lift the mouse. This obviously gets you killed.

Other reasons are more technical. When the mouse has a very low LOD it causes issue with multi colored mouse pads. Some pads will not track properly, you will get low malfunction speed, etc. Very low LOD also stops you from using taller mouse feet, this is why the Zowie mice have very thin mouse feet. If you don't like the glide of the Zowie mice tough luck.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I'm going to replace my FK after two weeks of usage I just can't get used to the shape. My aiming in CSGO has declined a-lot over the past two weeks when using this mouse. The issue might be with the switches that are just to hard to press, especially during pistol rounds, my aiming is all over the place, and I can't get it steady.





I play well with the Zowie FK after I added some shape and size. The switches are fine for my play style, but they do tire me out faster than the other Zowie mice. I do great with pistols and rifles. However, because of the mold flaws my AWPing abilities have declined.

I think the problem you are having is the rear size and shape of the mouse. It is so uselessly shaped and to small for anything but small hands. It doesn't really fill the hand. So, the mouse moves around a little depending on your grip. They should have made it like the Diamondback because that would have made more sense considering the side shape.

I added a bunch of tape for some width, height and shape. It was a test for a later plan. Fills my hand better and stops my hands from sweating like before.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you are a low sensitivity player you lift and swipe a lot. There are times when you swipe the mouse doesn't track because you ever so slightly lift the mouse. This obviously gets you killed.


I think if you're having this, then you're gripping the mouse too hard or not in the right way. When I use my AM, I've never tended to lift the mouse significantly while swiping. I maintain a relaxed grip on the mouse while swiping, and a tight one while picking it up.


----------



## popups

I was looking at the Zowie FK and the Razer Diamondback side by side. The FK looks like a failed attempt to be like the Diamondback.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I think if you're having this, then you're gripping the mouse too hard or not in the right way. When I use my AM, I've never tended to lift the mouse significantly while swiping. I maintain a relaxed grip on the mouse while swiping, and a tight one while picking it up.





I didn't want to go into a long explanation... It's kind of hard to explain to people who don't understand.

When using low sensitivity you start to lift before the edge of the pad, so the mouse doesn't "fall" off the pad. With very low LOD your mouse pad becomes "smaller" if you play this way. With very low LOD you have to pay attention to where the end of the pad is before you lift. Obviously, I don't think about where the end of my pad is when I am playing. Also, It takes more time between swipes for the mouse to track. So, less than ~1.5mm of LOD is problematic.

With (very) low LOD: You swipe, pay attention for the edge of the pad, reach the edge, lift and center.

With medium LOD: You swipe, lift and center.


----------



## Nilizum

I am using Goliathus Control and the LOD is like... less than 1mm.. Sometimes when I move it stop tracking









IDK why they can't adjust the lens so it can be 2mm or something.


----------



## Vikhr

Anyone try different mouse feet for the FK? The stock feet feel quite slow and sticky on most of my mouse pads, was thinking about getting Speedyskates or just slapping on some 1.1 hyperglides I have. Any suggestions?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I am using Goliathus Control and the LOD is like... less than 1mm.. Sometimes when I move it stop tracking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDK why they can't adjust the lens so it can be 2mm or something.


You hate very low LOD too? I heard gamers love very low LOD.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Anyone try different mouse feet for the FK? The stock feet feel quite slow and sticky on most of my mouse pads, was thinking about getting Speedyskates or just slapping on some 1.1 hyperglides I have. Any suggestions?


You cannot do it. The LOD is way to low with the FK. I think it is even lower than the EC. My AM has about 2.5mm LOD, so I can use taller feet.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You hate very low LOD too? I heard gamers love very low LOD.
> You cannot do it. The LOD is way to low with the FK. I think it is even lower than the EC. My AM has about 2.5mm LOD, so I can use taller feet.


What is the LOD on the Deathadder 3.5/Black? Because that is just stupidly high. I was thinking about getting a Zowie but unsure which one to get. I had to RMA my 2013 DA because of right click issue.


----------



## Vikhr

Welp that's disappointing, I may do that lens modification to raise the LOD then I guess.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> What is the LOD on the Deathadder 3.5/Black? Because that is just stupidly high.


~4mm.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I was looking at the Zowie FK and the Razer Diamondback side by side. The FK looks like a failed attempt to be like the Diamondback.
> 
> I didn't want to go into a long explanation... It's kind of hard to explain to people who don't understand.
> 
> When using low sensitivity you start to lift before the edge of the pad, so the mouse doesn't "fall" off the pad. With very low LOD your mouse pad becomes "smaller" if you play this way. With very low LOD you have to pay attention to where the end of the pad is before you lift. Obviously, I don't think about where the end of my pad is when I am playing. Also, It takes more time between swipes for the mouse to track. So, less than ~1.5mm of LOD is problematic.
> 
> With (very) low LOD: You swipe, pay attention for the edge of the pad, reach the edge, lift and center.
> 
> With medium LOD: You swipe, lift and center.


I was doing 17" for a 360. The LOD never really bothered me when I went over the edge of the pad. I just got used to it and didn't lift the mouse as much anymore. If you're using any lower of a sensitivity than me, you're gonna have trouble with the tracking speed on an AM or FK. I never used the style where I pick up the mouse as I am moving it; I try to avoid that as it tends to throw my line of sight in a strange direction of I do that. I also have a huge mousepad to accomodate my 17" for a 360, so I suppose the loss of speed doesn't hit me too hard.


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Anyone try different mouse feet for the FK? The stock feet feel quite slow and sticky on most of my mouse pads, was thinking about getting Speedyskates or just slapping on some 1.1 hyperglides I have. Any suggestions?


i use intellimouse hyperglides on my fk and the lod is fine doesnt stop during swipes, at least for my 50 cm/360 on qck


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I added a bunch of tape for some width, height and shape. It was a test for a later plan. Fills my hand better and stops my hands from sweating like before.


Hah. I did something like this with my FK earlier, but less overkill. I actually took it off, because I hate to put junk on my mouse. The FK wore in now and I can use it for the most part, if not I put some hand lotion on my palm, but it's not the same horrible FK I bought anymore. Still looking for a new mouse...


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Anyone try different mouse feet for the FK? The stock feet feel quite slow and sticky on most of my mouse pads, was thinking about getting Speedyskates or just slapping on some 1.1 hyperglides I have. Any suggestions?


Maybe these would be better than the stock ones.

http://www.amazon.com/Zowie-Gear-Skeepdy-Skatez-AM/dp/B00AWK7IIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1


----------



## Krepieresel

popups, about the liftoff distance - if you want your mouse to track while you are "in the air" you do something significantly wrong. i'll agree with the multi coloured mousepads, that could be an issue. but if you use a recommended mousepad, the malfunction speed is around 4 m/s with optimised settings. we both know that this is perfectly fine for any sort of game. in my opinion, the lift off distance is something you get used to it better and better and if you have a low LOD, you will be just faster overall.

my sens in FPS games is ~55cm / 360 (very low sens)... so im dependent of a very low lift of distance to swipe as fast as possible. for example i just bought a steelseries kinzu v2 some days ago, just to test it. the mouse feels great, the shape is good, the surface is ok (not as good as the FK but ok)... everything was fine exept for the lift off distance which felt like around 4mm or higher. thats so inconvenient if you have to raise your mouse to the moon to swipe once, rly. besides that, the buttons are even harder to press than those of the zowie FK (not sure what switches there are built in). so for me, as lower the lift off distance, as better - in any case. as long as the tracking doesnt suffer too much. i think a mouse have to track when its connected on the pad, apart from that, it should do nothing ;o)

greets

PS: does anyone have an idea how to lower the LOD of the kinzu v2?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> PS: does anyone have an idea how to lower the LOD of the kinzu v2?


Tape fix, works with any mouse.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> PS: does anyone have an idea how to lower the LOD of the kinzu v2?


It's posted in the kinzu v2 thread.


----------



## Emospence

How's the size compared to G400?

Which would be better for fingertip grip?


----------



## Snakesoul

Got more time to spend with this mouse yesterday, played some bf3 and cs source, i don't know why if switches need to have some "break" or is it my fingers, but i can play better and better with it, even on pistol rounds








The only con i've seen so far, it's the scroll wheel, it feels loose but accurate at the same time.. this mouse it's perfect for my palm grip, (medium hands - 17.5/18cm from tip of middle finger to base of palm).. at least for now, no complains about it...
I tend to sweat a bit more, but no big deal, have to clean more than usual but that's ok for me.
Have read some post's and saw a video on youtube that mouse 1 squeaks, any of you have this problem?
I still haven't tested on a red\blue mousepad, to see if LOD is higher, but so far i like the default lod








Let me see if i can explain this "issue" i'm getting, from time to time i feel some kind of delay while gaming, i aim, press the button and i end up "dead"\shot, and the enemy doesn't die.. why this happen? is this made by polling rate?
But overall i think this is a great mouse


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> popups, about the liftoff distance - if you want your mouse to track while you are "in the air" you do something significantly wrong. i'll agree with the multi coloured mousepads, that could be an issue. but if you use a recommended mousepad, the malfunction speed is around 4 m/s with optimised settings. we both know that this is perfectly fine for any sort of game. in my opinion, the lift off distance is something you get used to it better and better and if you have a low LOD, you will be just faster overall.
> 
> my sens in FPS games is ~55cm / 360 (very low sens)... so im dependent of a very low lift of distance to swipe as fast as possible. for example i just bought a steelseries kinzu v2 some days ago, just to test it. the mouse feels great, the shape is good, the surface is ok (not as good as the FK but ok)... everything was fine exept for the lift off distance which felt like around 4mm or higher. thats so inconvenient if you have to raise your mouse to the moon to swipe once, rly. besides that, the buttons are even harder to press than those of the zowie FK (not sure what switches there are built in). so for me, as lower the lift off distance, as better - in any case. as long as the tracking doesnt suffer too much. i think a mouse have to track when its connected on the pad, apart from that, it should do nothing ;o)
> 
> greets
> 
> PS: does anyone have an idea how to lower the LOD of the kinzu v2?





From comments of certain players, they all like the Intellimouse's LOD (~2mm) and not the DeathAdders (~4mm). They don't really like the Zowie's LOD (~0.5-1.3mm) either.

Super low LOD and a magnifying lens is not good for many reasons. We will just leave it at that. You cannot convince people that don't understand.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> How's the size compared to G400?
> 
> Which would be better for fingertip grip?





The Zowie FK might be better because it is small. However, the shape may not be for you. Maybe a SteelSeries Kana v2 if the side buttons/area doesn't bother you.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Got more time to spend with this mouse yesterday, played some bf3 and cs source, i don't know why if switches need to have some "break" or is it my fingers, but i can play better and better with it, even on pistol rounds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only con i've seen so far, it's the scroll wheel, it feels loose but accurate at the same time.. this mouse it's perfect for my palm grip, (medium hands - 17.5/18cm from tip of middle finger to base of palm).. at least for now, no complains about it...
> I tend to sweat a bit more, but no big deal, have to clean more than usual but that's ok for me.
> Have read some post's and saw a video on youtube that mouse 1 squeaks, any of you have this problem?
> I still haven't tested on a red\blue mousepad, to see if LOD is higher, but so far i like the default lod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see if i can explain this "issue" i'm getting, from time to time i feel some kind of delay while gaming, i aim, press the button and i end up "dead"\shot, and the enemy doesn't die.. why this happen? is this made by polling rate?
> But overall i think this is a great mouse





The main buttons are noticeably stiffer than my other Zowie mice. They are about the same actuation force of the Kana v1 buttons. I get tired quickly using the FK. I already have "strong" fingers, the FK requires another level of strength.

Buying mouse pads for LOD is a hard thing to do. My old Hiens behave differently than my new ones. You have to ask around to see what pads give a certain LOD. Sucks that you have to do this.

When you press the button do you actually fire? If it does, it might be what I experience, which is mold related. When I press the button the top shell rubs the middle shell before it actuates the switch. This slows down your clicks and requires more force. You have to place your fingers closer to the scroll wheel and do not put any pressure on the top of the mouse.

_With all the characteristics of the FK combined, I cannot play for more than an hour straight without getting tired / cramps in my hand. The concept of the shape is great (much like I would design), but the execution is very bad._


----------



## teeg

The FK's cord is very light...

...maybe too light?









Anyone else have this happen?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> The FK's cord is very light...
> 
> ...maybe too light?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else have this happen?


Fix the cable with tape at the edge of your desk. Leave enough so that you can move the mouse over the full distance you need but not more.

Greatest cable I've seen so far, I love it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> The FK's cord is very light... ...maybe too light?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else have this happen?


The worst part is when you swipe fast. The cable flings and catches the corner of your mouse pad, pulling it up. It's very bad when the cable is still bent as it was when packaged.

I use a sensitivity of 84cm for a 360. I need a lot of cable free to allow me to swipe. Taping the cable down or using a bungee will not help.


----------



## Snakesoul

The main buttons are noticeably stiffer than my other Zowie mice. They are about the same actuation force of the Kana v1 buttons. I get tired quickly using the FK. I already have "strong" fingers, the FK requires another level of strength.

Buying mouse pads for LOD is a hard thing to do. My old Hiens behave differently than my new ones. You have to ask around to see what pads give a certain LOD. Sucks that you have to do this.

When you press the button do you actually fire? If it does, it might be what I experience, which is mold related. When I press the button the top shell rubs the middle shell before it actuates the switch. This slows down your clicks and requires more force. You have to place your fingers closer to the scroll wheel and do not put any pressure on the top of the mouse.

_With all the characteristics of the FK combined, I cannot play for more than an hour straight without getting tired / cramps in my hand. The concept of the shape is great (much like I would design), but the execution is very bad._[/quote]

Hi popups,
Thanks for your reply and help








Right now i'm using a ozone ground level mousepad, and it tracks better than the large version for some reason (i can't return it, because i bought some time ago), but i'll see if i can manage to get a red mousepad to test the LOD and see if i like it.
No, when i press the button i don't fire, or at least i don't think the weapon shoot.. it's like some kind of lag\fps drop, can't explain very well, but i think you get it







since i palm grip it, my fingers are close to the edge of the buttons, but your point of view for putting the finger is more accurate i think (at least i'm clicking right now, in the middle of the button but parallel to the scroll wheel and from what i can hear, the clicks are more crisp and clear, so it should be more responsive, but you have two ways to hold it like that, claw of finger and none of those are comfortable to me..)
For now i'm not getting cramps or feel tired or pain with this mouse, it feels comfortable







think i'm going to keep it for now.


----------



## Vikhr

Hey popups what kind of tape did you add onto your FK? I kind of want to do something similar as the really low profile has been causing me cramps and it doesn't feel very stable for fine aiming.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Fix the cable with tape at the edge of your desk. Leave enough so that you can move the mouse over the full distance you need but not more.
> 
> Greatest cable I've seen so far, I love it.


I tend to do this as well. The G400 is by far the worst in this regard.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Hey popups what kind of tape did you add onto your FK? I kind of want to do something similar as the really low profile has been causing me cramps and it doesn't feel very stable for fine aiming.


Gaffer tape.

It was my first attempt on adding width and shape. I likely will take it off and redo it better. Eventually, I want to do the automotive technique. As in, adding some material, shaping it, then painting it.


----------



## Polarity

i just ordered myself the zowie FK :} i hope going from g9x (raw no grips) to zowie FK is gonna be nice
my current mouse is causing me some troubles lately lol i hope this wont !!


----------



## Krepieresel

Quote:


> From comments of certain players, they all like the Intellimouse's LOD (~2mm) and not the DeathAdders (~4mm). They don't really like the Zowie's LOD (~0.5-1.3mm) either.
> 
> Super low LOD and a magnifying lens is not good for many reasons. We will just leave it at that. You cannot convince people that don't understand.


what "certain players" like or dont like is irrelevant. lets call it a fact that a lower LOD makes you faster and faster is better - and better is what you want. sorry, that statement may sound overbearing, but its the truth. thats why i dont "just leave it at that".







if someone likes 2mm or higher just because he is used to it, doesnt mean that this is the way to go.

and thats not just what "certain players" think about the LOD, thats my personal opinion as a gamer over a decade. i'd appreciate if you can tell me the "many reasons" why a low LOD isnt good.

greets

by the way, i dont want to be convinced, but that doesnt mean that i dont understand good arguments and facts about things i dont consider. but in my country, statistics of "certain players" doesnt mean that much.


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> what "certain players" like or dont like is irrelevant. lets call it a fact that a lower LOD makes you faster and faster is better - and better is what you want. sorry, that statement may sound overbearing, but its the truth. thats why i dont "just leave it at that".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if someone likes 2mm or higher just because he is used to it, doesnt mean that this is the way to go.
> 
> and thats not just what "certain players" think about the LOD, thats my personal opinion as a gamer over a decade. i'd appreciate if you can tell me the "many reasons" why a low LOD isnt good.
> 
> greets
> 
> by the way, i dont want to be convinced, but that doesnt mean that i dont understand good arguments and facts about things i dont consider. but in my country, statistics of "certain players" doesnt mean that much.


LOD is a preference like all things to do with a mouse, I don't disagree with everything you're saying, there's nothing wrong with a low LOD except for peoples personal preferences with it, in future hopefully more mice have customizable LOD like the original Sensei does, that way everyone can be happy with their own fully customizable settings.


----------



## Krepieresel

yes, you are absolutely right, at last everything comes down to personal preference. thats why most of the guys out there like 2mm LOD because they are used to it (because most common mice had around 2mm). im just arguing popups statement about the many reasons why a low LOD is "not good". because imo thats bs.


----------



## blainemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> yes, you are absolutely right, at last everything comes down to personal preference. thats why most of the guys out there like 2mm LOD because they are used to it (because most common mice had around 2mm). im just arguing popups statement about the many reasons why a low LOD is "not good". because imo thats bs.


You try to make it sound like it's all preference but it's not in this case. I love low lift off distance but it's obvious that Zowie ****ed up. FK has both a very low lift off and VERY low feet (they barely stick out if at all if you look from the side). You can't fix the mousefeet just because of low lift-off of this mouse doesn't allow you to.

The other question is if you find the lift off acceptable with the default feet. I find that even with those terrible 0.000001 mm feet the lod still sometimes interferes with playing on many standard mousepads (QCK black, icemat). I had instances (very rarely but still...) that this mouse skipped because i made a movement and didn't press the mouse against the pad as much as it's required. When I applied only a bit higher mouse feet this happened very often.

So yes, low lift off is a good thing. Zowie's LOD is not. And that is not a subjective opinion.


----------



## Krepieresel

yes sir, i fully agree. im just talking about the fact that a low lift off distance is a good thing in general. that doesnt mean that zowie didnt f*** up things with their mouse.

i never had an issue with the zowie mousefeet, for me its a mystery why people want to change the feet of a mouse because thats something you will get used to it in just some hours of playing. nevertheless, in my opinion zowie did a great job with their mouse. i never had skipping issue and for me the lift off distance is godly. the only thing that could have been better is the malfunction speed, and thats a result of the custom lens ( -> low LOD). but i think the compromise they've done is really good.

as i said in some posts above, the new 4G sensor solves every problem anyway. you can choose your own LOD and the sensor tracks 5.5m/s or more without any issues.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

IE 3.0 LOD is too high. I have an extra pair of feet on it which helps.

I remember pre-second-set-of-feet when I would lift the mouse slightly for normal repositioning during games it would bother me.

>the new 4G sensor

name?


----------



## Krepieresel

Quote:


> It's a avago S3988 sensor if the leak is correct.


somewhere out of the hardware forum.


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> as i said in some posts above, the new 4G sensor solves every problem anyway. you can choose your own LOD and the sensor tracks 5.5m/s or more without any issues.


sensor tracks without any issues just >10ms later


----------



## Snakesoul

Need some help please







Yesterday i noticed the mouse feet, were a bit thinner than before (bought it a week ago)... How's the durability of these mouse feet? I know they're thin, but i expect to change them like in 6 months from now. (i play on a cloth mousepad, and it's not so rough texture...)
So any help\tip would be great


----------



## Krepieresel

probably placebo snakesoul. from a technical point of view its impossible that your mousefeet would get noticeable thinner (for a human being) in one week on a cloth pad. i think thats because people talked about the very thin mousefeet relatively often the last few posts due to its relation with the LOD. just a theorie ^^


----------



## Emospence

Just impulse ordered one.

Lol.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> probably placebo snakesoul. from a technical point of view its impossible that your mousefeet would get noticeable thinner (for a human being) in one week on a cloth pad. i think thats because people talked about the very thin mousefeet relatively often the last few posts due to its relation with the LOD. just a theorie ^^


Thanks for your reply Krepieresel







yeah i think it's placebo, but i wonder how fast would this mouse feet wear....
Also still thinking this mouse wheel is becoming more loose... should i return it? will this problem get worse? anyone who has it, give some feedback please


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> sensor tracks without any issues just >10ms later


There's been a reported smoothing effect on the mouse movement. I've not heard claims of a large latency before, though.


----------



## jayfkay

guys I hope this is not inappropiate but if anyone is from germany or nearby, I would sell a 99% new and completely unused Zowie AM-FG for like 25€ (asking price) shipping included if anyones interested.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> guys I hope this is not inappropiate but if anyone is from germany or nearby, I would sell a 99% new and completely unused Zowie AM-FG for like 25€ (asking price) shipping included if anyones interested.


I'm interested! Sens me details for paying in PM and I'll contact you!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> guys I hope this is not inappropiate but if anyone is from germany or nearby, I would sell a 99% new and completely unused Zowie AM-FG for like 25€ (asking price) shipping included if anyones interested.


You know that the forums has a market section for this, right?

edit: oh wait, you have below 35 rep. Nevermind.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> edit: oh wait, you have below 35 rep. Nevermind.


What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> There's been a reported smoothing effect on the mouse movement. I've not heard claims of a large latency before, though.


Smoothing gives delay, it cant smooth in real time. If people are noticing this, while 99% of people dont notice delay of a9500 sensor, then it must be huge amount latency.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> What's that supposed to mean?


you cant post on trading forums with low rep


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Smoothing gives delay, it cant smooth in real time. If people are noticing this, while 99% of people dont notice delay of a9500 sensor, then it must be huge amount latency.


Well, I would have expected smoothing to be done with an extremely small latency, since that would seem to be a necessity for a gaming mouse. I wouldn't expect smoothing to be the only reason for latency, if there is any. It's most likely just a combination of requirements to increase the DPI that much.


----------



## jayfkay

I think he means I cant access it without having at least 35 reps








sent you a pm.


----------



## shuprimo

How can I set 1000 Hz in Zowie FK? Just holding pressing button 4 without pluggin in usb?


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi shuprimo,

The default HZ out of the box is already at 1000hz.
If not, press button 4 and then plug it to your usb port.

Edit: Does anyone feel mouse wheel to loose? Ino.? Popups? any help would be appreciated







Also i'm not sure if it's the switches or the shape but i'm having some kind of pain the last days on my wrist....


----------



## oldpiglas

think so,Rather disappointed that internal hardware has remained the same.thanks


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Does anyone feel mouse wheel to loose? Ino.? Popups? any help would be appreciated


The wheel is probably the only thing I dislike on the FK. Don't know if I'd call it too loose, but it feels cheap. I'd wish it had the wheel of the Savu or Kone Pure.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Edit: Does anyone feel mouse wheel to loose? Ino.? Popups? any help would be appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also i'm not sure if it's the switches or the shape but i'm having some kind of pain the last days on my wrist....





Yeah... I had the same situation. My wrist was hurting before I put all that tape on the mouse. Now it doesn't really bother me. So, I would say it is the shape/size of the mouse that is causing it. The switches don't help either.

Actually, I am starting to dislike the switches. The switches, in combination with the shell, are to stiff for me. I find myself getting tired way to fast and lacking perfect control over the mouse during clicking. Omrons maybe a better option in this shell. The switches in my AM feel way lighter.

The scroll wheel doesn't feel that loose. I can notice it has a little bit of play, but not as much as the EC. My FK might have lighter springs than my AM.

I will open it later and swap the AM PCB into the FK to see how it feels. I modified the AM's switches and took out the play in the wheel.

Right now my FK looks like a piece of junk because the tape has this residue on it now. I think it is the little bit of soap I failed to rinse off my hand.

When I was taking off some of the tape the top shell [mouse 2] popped off the mid shell! I thought I broke it. I put it back in place, it seems fine. I guess the top shell piece is designed so badly the area that supposed to keep it from moving sideways or upward is near useless.


----------



## TriviumKM

I still can't decide whether or not i like this mouse yet. Still feels a bit too thin for my tastes and there is definitely input lag at it's 450 step as other's have said; have to use it at 1150 as 2300 is too fast and has jitter. 500hz polling is also really unstable, have to downsample from 1000 for it to feel right.

Spawn is still the most comfortable mouse i've ever used, but it spiked my cpu like crazy. The hunt for a suitable mouse continues i guess.


----------



## shuprimo

Recently I got a Logitech g9x and I returned it due to it was causing me a hard pain in wrist. With Zowie FK the pain is gone and It feels so good in my hand (amazing coating material). Loving this mouse!


----------



## Xanatos

are the left and right clicks even?

i had the evo ec2 but the button clicks were uneven, likely due to the asymmetrical shape.


----------



## shedokan

Input lag at 450DPI wat?

Will there finally something to replace intelli 3.0 properly???


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Input lag at 450DPI wat?
> 
> Will there finally something to replace intelli 3.0 properly???


I don't know if "input lag" was what I was feeling but with the FK I also felt this kind of "floaty inaccuracy" on the desktop when trying to do things like select text.

As far as a IE 3.0 replacement, I haven't found one either. I'm hoping for the Kana v2 or BST's mouse.


----------



## irakyl

i will get the fk in 1 week from now on, hoping it will be a good choice for me


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yeah... I had the same situation. My wrist was hurting before I put all that tape on the mouse. Now it doesn't really bother me. So, I would say it is the shape/size of the mouse that is causing it. The switches don't help either.
> 
> Actually, I am starting to dislike the switches. The switches, in combination with the shell, are to stiff for me. I find myself getting tired way to fast and lacking perfect control over the mouse during clicking. Omrons maybe a better option in this shell. The switches in my AM feel way lighter.
> 
> The scroll wheel doesn't feel that loose. I can notice it has a little bit of play, but not as much as the EC. My FK might have lighter springs than my AM.
> 
> I will open it later and swap the AM PCB into the FK to see how it feels. I modified the AM's switches and took out the play in the wheel.
> 
> Right now my FK looks like a piece of junk because the tape has this residue on it now. I think it is the little bit of soap I failed to rinse off my hand.
> 
> When I was taking off some of the tape the top shell [mouse 2] popped off the mid shell! I thought I broke it. I put it back in place, it seems fine. I guess the top shell piece is designed so badly the area that supposed to keep it from moving sideways or upward is near useless.


Well i guess it's the shape it's giving me some pain...
It's strange since the first days i start using it, i could hold it properly and no pain at all..
Well my feeling about the switches is a love\hate thing, mostly because on pistol rounds i don't click it so fast, but with other guns, it's very accurate and i can control recoil better.. (i would love to try out the omrons on this shell and see how it behaves







)
The other problem i feel it's the response time, G400 feels more responsive either on 400 or 800 dpi at 1000hz, and zowie fk on 450dpi at 1000hz for some reason tends to have some delay... i already tried on 500hz but it's the same feeling... I don't know if it's the sensor or polling rate, but it's a strange thing...
but i didn't gave up on this mouse yet


----------



## bvazx

I use FK two month (450&500) and don't notice all of you wrote about input lag and response time...
P.S.: I tested FK with Spawn, Xornet & G400.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I use FK two month (450&500) and don't notice all of you wrote about input lag and response time...
> P.S.: I tested FK with Spawn, Xornet, G400.


I second this. I dont know if its because you guys are extremely picky or what it is but i really can't feel any lag or whatever. How can you be sure its the mouse and how do you test it?


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I use FK two month (450&500) and don't notice all of you wrote about input lag and response time...
> P.S.: I tested FK with Spawn, Xornet, G400.


What games are you playing? i notice some lag on cs source... but on bf3 it's ok..
Also i'm using it on 1000hz...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> How can you be sure its the mouse and how do you test it?


Because coming from my IE 3.0 there is a clear difference.

Though there's a possibility it's from the extra DPI. My IE 3.0 LE measures at exactly 400dpi. I didn't measure the FK's dpi on the 450 setting but if it's DPI is even higher than 450 like some people are saying then it's possible that it's just the extra DPI (and slicker feet) that's making it feel inaccurate/unresponsive/floaty.

The 1150 setting felt way too fast on 1680x1050 desktop res so I didn't test it much.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> I second this. I dont know if its because you guys are extremely picky or what it is but i really can't feel any lag or whatever. How can you be sure its the mouse and how do you test it?


I'm not doing any "serious" test, since i'm no expert..
i'm just comparing between zowie fk and logitech g400, the response time doesn't look or feel the same.. the same way DABE, seemed to me it worked better at 500dpi than on 1000hz...
Again i only notice this "lag"\delay response time on cs source..
For ex. it's becoming much more difficult to hit\kill someone with this mouse.. i hit them a lot (i know i play on public servers) so reg. is questionable, but for instance, with g400 was a lot easier to get kills... With FK, i have 93\3, 84\5 and still no kills and it's the same server as i played before with g400..


----------



## detto87

Well then this "delay" could also be the result of a slower operation on the mousepad because the middle part of the bottom of the FK (where the lens sits) drags a bit on cloth pads. Or the shape, because the hand and fingers handle it differently.

Before anyone has a technical proof for a delay or lag, I call this voodoo aka nonsense.


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Well then this "delay" could also be the result of a slower operation on the mousepad because the middle part of the bottom of the FK (where the lens sits) drags a bit on cloth pads. Or the shape, because the hand and fingers handle it differently.
> 
> Before anyone has a technical proof for a delay or lag, I call this voodoo aka nonsense.


Drag and mouse shape produce lag at 450 dpi, but not on 2300 dpi.

I call this voodoo aka nonsense.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Well then this "delay" could also be the result of a slower operation on the mousepad because the middle part of the bottom of the FK (where the lens sits) drags a bit on cloth pads. Or the shape, because the hand and fingers handle it differently.
> 
> Before anyone has a technical proof for a delay or lag, I call this voodoo aka nonsense.


Maybe it's me or the way i hold my mouse or the strenght\weight i put in when i move my mouse along the mousepad, but i don't feel the mouse drag at all..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Drag and mouse shape produce lag at 450 dpi, but not on 2300 dpi.
> 
> I call this voodoo aka nonsense.


Well 2300 dpi is too much for me..
Well you can call it whatever you like, but you won't change my opinion








Btw do any of you have this mouse?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Because coming from my IE 3.0 there is a clear difference.
> 
> Though there's a possibility it's from the extra DPI. My IE 3.0 LE measures at exactly 400dpi. I didn't measure the FK's dpi on the 450 setting but if it's DPI is even higher than 450 like some people are saying then it's possible that it's just the extra DPI (and slicker feet) that's making it feel inaccurate/unresponsive/floaty.
> 
> The 1150 setting felt way too fast on 1680x1050 desktop res so I didn't test it much.


It might be varying levels of smoothing. It kinda feels like the MX518 is faster than the G400, but I'm pretty sure that the 518's prediction is just making it feel different, which is interpreted as it being faster. It feels like the cursor goes faster across the screen, when a 360 takes the exact same space on my mouse pad.

I can't feel much of a difference between the G400 and the AM, though. I don't know how helpful that is, since I don't have the FK, but it might just be the difference in feel between the sensors.

IMO, they should have done 400 and 800 DPI steps.


----------



## Ino.

Just chiming back in: I could not really notice the delay in any relevant situation (aka gaming), only when testing specifically for it, and even then it was so minimal that I decided not to care for it.

As I now have a AM-FG and could compare them I notice that the fluctuating polling rate indeed happens on the AM, where it goes up to 1000 Hz even though it's set to 500. This does not happen on the FK anymore.


----------



## blainemono

The delay on 450 is a spread rumour not confirmed with any evidence. This mouse has large flaws but sensor isn't one of them.

There is 0 difference in movement between 450, 1150 and 2300 when you actually adjust the sensitivity to travel the same distance. Until someone posts some credible proof I'll consider this an effect of repeating rumors and placebo effect.


----------



## Crizzl

The 450 step on my FK is more like 480 when you measure it. I still would like to know how you tested this rather than "it just feels that way therefore it must be lag". To me it sounds like placebo.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just chiming back in: I could not really notice the delay in any relevant situation (aka gaming), only when testing specifically for it, and even then it was so minimal that I decided not to care for it.
> 
> As I now have a AM-FG and could compare them I notice that the fluctuating polling rate indeed happens on the AM, where it goes up to 1000 Hz even though it's set to 500. This does not happen on the FK anymore.


...I've only ever had the polling rate go up to like 550, if I recall correctly. Maybe they just make a lot of slightly defective models.


----------



## Berserker1

Someone should buy high speed camera and record delay just to prove to this guy.

I aim slower with a9500/a3090 mice than with a3060, but it must be placebo as mouse sensors are real time.


----------



## Crizzl

Im just curious as to how this claim came to be because no one ever posts anything that resembles evidence. The only thing i see is that it "feels" like it hence why i say that it sounds like placebo.


----------



## Berserker1

Skylit posted some evidence, others dont have technical knowledge or high speed cameras or some other tools to prove delay.


----------



## Crizzl

could you find me a link to this evidence you're speaking about? it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Skylit

I didn't exactly post evidence, but rather explained evolution of tracking code.

On the same note, theres perceptive attributes in terms of the subject. It's something that really depends on you and your hardware rather than outside opinion. (Not that outside opinion won't help).

You can go through my post as I don't have time to re-type and find everything.


----------



## TriviumKM

Maybe it isn't input lag, but there is definitely something going on at the 450 step. It's evident to me when quick bursting in games (BF3 / CS) when compared to the 1150 / 2300 step or even my other mice adjusted to the same exact sens. My accuracy drops on both games when ever i use 450 with this mouse.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> Im just curious as to how this claim came to be because no one ever posts anything that resembles evidence. The only thing i see is that it "feels" like it hence why i say that it sounds like placebo.


Nobody has posted evidence of it NOT having input lag either. Like others said, it's difficult to prove. But I've seen enough people feeling the same thing so wouldn't that kinda raise suspicions? Me, I definitely feel floatiness on EC1 evo when I'm looking for it in-game, and FK should be no different.

For me, it feels different, end of discussion. It's not placebo even if you can't spot it in your setup.


----------



## popups

I guess the only evidence a non engineer/scientist can give you is: the 3090 Zowie uses is a 1800 CPI version, the other steps are scaled from there, throwing away more than half the counts will take a lot more time (increased latency through MCU) and can cause some "tracking" irregularities.

If you have a low input delay setup you are more likely to notice the "450" step's behavior. If you are using some cheap 60Hz LCD and have all those delay inducing settings enabled it would be hard to notice. Not to mention the game you are using...

If you think about it, the MCU is throwing away more than every other count. I guess it's more noticeable on initial motion and transitions to other directions.

When I used (after many months) the "450" step I noticed some latency and stuttering/skipping compared to the DeathAdder and Diamondback. The 1150 step shouldn't display this exact behavior because the MCU is only throwing away every other count; this is a "smoother" process.

It's funny how people want a super detailed, peer reviewed, scientific study before they take anything as possible; even though it's a very logical situation. The world must be flat, so to speak.


----------



## Skylit

There are many things that can introduce latency. MCU recalculation is one of them.

Tracking code itself per model evolution will also vary.


----------



## popups

Any time you process the data there will be added latency. I guess this is why people like the feel of the Microsoft sensor, plus it has higher frame rates.


----------



## Skylit

To be fair, 6000 and 9000 FPS variations of the same sensor feel quite identical, at least to me.


----------



## Emospence

Is there a similarly shaped mouse (that's less expensive) that I can use for the office?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Is there a similarly shaped mouse (that's less expensive) that I can use for the office?


WMO?


----------



## irakyl

i haven't tried it yet but i 've seen too many negative feedbacks around here


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> WMO?


Perhaps something still in production?


----------



## Snakesoul

Wow, didn't expect (and didn't want to), to start a "war" based on my opinions








They're personal. No scientific or any other way i'm testing it.
The only "tests" i do, is from gaming, and as a casual gamer, all i can care about it's how the mouse behave (among other things, like comfort, switches, etc..).
The 450 dpi step on zowie fk isn't the same as DABE for ex., of course most of you can tell me the behavior is different, because of the mcu or even the shape, but i don't feel any delay on DABE like i do on zowie. Also and as i stated before, for some reason DABE "behaved on my hand" better on 1000 hz polling rate than on 500hz.
Placebo effect? Maybe, but scores on gaming speaks for themselves... Again this is my opinion and those aren't proven facts, i'm not an expert on mice..
I thought this was a forum and everyone had the freedom of speach, to trade ideas and knowledge, but it looks i'm being treated as a troll or an ignorant.

I repeat, this mouse is great, no questions about it, if the shape and switches fit you . All the points i pointed are personal.


----------



## Krepieresel

kinzu v2 if you dont need the sidebuttons for office.

snakesoul, scores doesnt speak for themselves imo. its absolutely random if you do well or do suck, because you are always in a different situation. there are WAY more influences than 500hz or 1000hz, believe me... there may be worse foes on the server, or your concentration is just higher than yesterday, or even your mood is crucial - if you are relaxed you may play better in certain situations as if you are stressed and overdo things. there are several posts where you bring in your ingame scores to decide which mouse you should take. take this as a tip, dont do that ^^ its just not meaningful enough and very subjective. just my 2 cents ;o)


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krepieresel*
> 
> kinzu v2 if you dont need the sidebuttons for office.
> 
> snakesoul, scores doesnt speak for themselves imo. its absolutely random if you do well or do suck, because you are always in a different situation. there are WAY more influences than 500hz or 1000hz, believe me... there may be worse foes on the server, or your concentration is just higher than yesterday, or even your mood is crucial - if you are relaxed you may play better in certain situations as if you are stressed and overdo things. there are several posts where you bring in your ingame scores to decide which mouse you should take. take this as a tip, dont do that ^^ its just not meaningful enough and very subjective. just my 2 cents ;o)


Hi Krepieserel,

I know scores don't mean a thing, i just gave them as an example.. a poor one i must say, for the reasons you gave








I don't know if it's placebo or something else, but yesterday i played with g400 for ex., and response time was faster than with zowie's... (i know it's subjective since switches for ex. are easier to press, than zowie...)
I haven't tried with the other dpi steps, i'm a little lazy to touch my sensitivity... also 1150 dpi step is too fast for me on desktop.
I never bought a mouse depending on a game score, because what can work for you, might not work for me (ergonomics, dpi steps, etc..)







but thanks for your tip.
Any kind of help for me is a way to learn and expand my point of view about things\subjects


----------



## Crizzl

Wow that was some unexpected replies... I guess I wont be asking anymore questions. I genuinely only wanted to know how you tested it so that I might test it as well and hopefully see for myself what you meant. I do have a proper setup but never really noticed anything, I guess I'm just not as picky.


----------



## Krepieresel

Snakesoul, i think the best thing you can do is grabbing a mouse which you feel comfortable with and just stick with it. you will adapt to that little mechanic friend and your teamwork (yes, you and your mouse) will improve. that takes some time.

the worst thing you can do is switching your peripherals like your socks tbh.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> Wow that was some unexpected replies... I guess I wont be asking anymore questions. I genuinely only wanted to know how you tested it so that I might test it as well and hopefully see for myself what you meant. I do have a proper setup but never really noticed anything, I guess I'm just not as picky.


Your question is logical and it's fine to ask, though it's something I am not able to explain or give reasoning without background understanding of sensor architecture. I've generally attempted to explain such over time. The information I did present is passed down from individuals that work around the sensor manufacturers themselves.

Could be identified as ripple compensation, which is embedded to ensure stable tracking at higher CPI values; Compromise being added ms latency based on general degree. Effect depends on you and general hardware.

What Snakesoul brought up is a separate attribute in terms of added latency, something hypothetical based on logical reasoning of recalculation process, albeit not linear. You could consider it hearsay as no one here will be able to prove claims.

It's really completely fine that you have no issue or are not as picky. Most pro gamers aren't either.


----------



## Emospence

It's here!


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> What games are you playing? i notice some lag on cs source... but on bf3 it's ok..
> Also i'm using it on 1000hz...


I play CS 1.6 & CS:GO. Last time only CS:GO.
For this game I use d.input & 450 & 500.
Also I play Dota 2, Civilization 5 and Reflex...
And I repeat, I didn't notice any problems.


----------



## Snakesoul

Right now i'm @ office and for some reason i can't multi quote...
@Crizzl

First of all, I didn't want to offend anyone, if you feel offended somehow about my replies, i apologize. As i stated before, i don't want to start a fight or a trolling post.
I'm just posting my thoughts and personal opinions, based on my experience with this mouse, and trying to get my help to get my problems solved.
Again, it's personal opinion and personal experience.
Feel free to try my settings - 450dpi @ 1000Hz (guess sensitivity is personal preference, but if you're interested is 32cm/360º).
@Krepieresel:

I'm a mouse "nerd\freak|whatever you want to call me". i'm always on pursuit on the "perfect" mouse (but that doesn't mean i buy them all, i try to do a lot of research, especially here on OCN), especially to see if that fit my needs in gaming and outside gaming.
I haven't changed my mouse for a few time (maybe a year or so, last mouse i bought i think it was G400 and i kept it until i changed to FK. The only reason i did it, it was because that horrible right lip g400 has, i have to make my pinky too stretch so i can hold it properly, and you imagine it's not that comfy ...).


----------



## Crizzl

It wasn't you Snakesoul it was the tone in some of the other replies that I guess was directed at me.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I play CS 1.6 & CS:GO. Last time only CS:GO. For this game I use d.input & 450 & 500. Also I play Dota 2, Civilization 5 and Reflex... And I repeat, I didn't notice any problems.





In GO use the 2300 setting and adjust your sensitivity to be the same as with the 450 setting. Play awhile and switch between the two settings. Pay attention to transitions and initial motion. Then come back and tell us if you notice anything. I assume you haven't done this...



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> It wasn't you Snakesoul it was the tone in some of the other replies that I guess was directed at me.





No one is trying to hate on you. Sometimes people say things in a way that causes a certain response. It's not really about the person... Saying words like "evidence" and "placebo" in a certain way leads people to think you are questioning their honesty or their level of competence.

I may be the originator of the "input delay" claim with the Zowie mice. I cannot give any scientific evidence to prove anything; if I could I would have done that long ago. You either accept my statements or you don't. People should do their own "tests" anyway.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> It's really completely fine that you have no issue or are not as picky. Most pro gamers aren't either.





At least the not so great players...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> At least the not so great players...


Afaik some if the best players play with horrible mice, at least according to this forum, and still own. I'm thinking of those playing with Kinzu's and such.

I did the delay test in TF2 with 450 and 2300 dpi, switching between 1.6 and 0.3 sensitivity to keep overall sens the same. There was a difference, but that could have been the smaller jaw and pitch, didn't feel like delay at least. I can't really say 2300 felt any better. Somehow 450 felt snappier to me, so I kept that.

Keep in mind I'm gaming on a 60 Hz screen, so my overall delay is probably bigger than for those of you who game on 120 or 144 Hz.

Anyway: if you feel comfortable with a setting just keep it and don't listen to forum hypes. Asking for advice only really helps if you feel that something is wrong. Otherwise it will only make you feel insecure about your setup which doesn't help either.


----------



## Crizzl

I do realize that it may have come across a bit different than I intended in the first place.
The majority of pros use what would be considered proper mice but there's also quite a few who uses mice that may be subpar to most users on this forum. I'm only really invested in quake and tf2 where I think it's safe to say that most do not use the specific mouse because of sponsors.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Afaik some if the best players play with horrible mice, at least according to this forum, and still own. I'm thinking of those playing with Kinzu's and such.


The Kinzu and the Kana are pretty good when it comes to the sensor. The sensors is not as good as others, but they're decent. I would use the Kana over the Kinzu because I need more malfunction speed for my style.


----------



## test user

Eh, Crizzl's comments were appropriate enough. It's okay to ask, it's okay to question. But I didn't see any insulting responses either. People on forums are often so sensitive, I think we all can take it if somebody disagrees with us.

inb4 my comment was one of "other replies directed at me"


----------



## Crizzl

No it wasn't your comments. Things can quickly come across more or less passive aggressive when it's text only and I guess my comments could be interpreted in the same way. Oh well no harm done.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> No it wasn't your comments. Things can quickly come across more or less passive aggressive when it's text only and I guess my comments could be interpreted in the same way. Oh well no harm done.


Yeah, let's all just be a big happy family


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Kinzu and the Kana are pretty good when it comes to the sensor. The sensors is not as good as others, but they're decent. I would use the Kana over the Kinzu because I need more malfunction speed for my style.


Still both are considered weak by a large number of people. Especially Kinzu got a lot of hatred because of accel. Just proves that you should not listen to people if you are happy and performing well with a certain mouse/setup. If it works for you it works.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Spoiler: Comment
> 
> 
> 
> At least the not so great players...


Don't think it's really fair to judge players based on peripherals. Too much subjectivity in terms of play style and what not.

Agree with Ino, just use what works.

@Crizzl

If you're talking about me, I didn't intend to offend~


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Don't think it's really fair to judge players based on peripherals. Too much subjectivity in terms of play style and what not.
> 
> Agree with Ino, just use what works.


Some players (that some regard as the best) are very picky about their setups. Obviously, not all of them can do what they want.

I don't judge a player by their gear or by their stats.


----------



## Gabriel Ruan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't judge a player by their gear *or by their stats*.


What else can you judge them by?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Don't think it's really fair to judge players based on peripherals. Too much subjectivity in terms of play style and what not.
> 
> Agree with Ino, just use what works.


I suppose, but you usually can't spot many good FPS players that are using a high sensitivity. It takes quite a bit more skill to play at a high sensitivity than at a low sensitivity in something like FPS.

You can also often spot good players of FPS by them using 120hz monitors, since using a 120hz monitor usually means that you spend a large amount of time playing FPS, since they are terrible monitors for just about anything else.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabriel Ruan*
> 
> What else can you judge them by?


Watching them play... When you watch matches you can see many things that stats don't tell you. Stats can be very misleading, a reason why people like to use them, be it about players or some other subject.


----------



## Gabriel Ruan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Watching them play... When you watch matches you can see many things that stats don't tell you. Stats can be very misleading, a reason why people like to use them, be it about players or some other subject.


That just means you're looking at the wrong stats.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabriel Ruan*
> 
> That just means you're looking at the wrong stats.


no stats can tell a really wrong story. Best is to watch a player on hand or do a 1 v 1.
Especially if a player plays different gamemods stats are useless.
Its quite self explaineble


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It takes quite a bit more skill to play at a high sensitivity than at a low sensitivity in something like FPS.


What??

Maybe this comment is coming from the misconception that low sensitivity = better and even necessary to be good in FPS like counter strike?

Either way that statement doesn't make sense. Everyone has a specific sensitivity (though it can change) that is best for that person. When an individual finds the appropriate sensitivity they should be able to snap to heads. The problem is that many mice don't allow you to do this. The IE 3.0 and razer copperhead are the only two mice that I recall which allowed me to find this exact sensitivity. Mice like the mx518 felt imprecise and thus I feel that it's one of the main reasons why almost everyone who uses the 518 uses really low sensitivity.

Basically, it only takes more skill to play at high sensitivity if your mouse is hindering you or if your personal ideal sensitivity is naturally low.


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> In GO use the 2300 setting and adjust your sensitivity to be the same as with the 450 setting. Play awhile and switch between the two settings. Pay attention to transitions and initial motion. Then come back and tell us if you notice anything. I assume you haven't done this...


I did that.
Zowie FK without additional filter on lens, SS QcK Heavy, USB 3.0 port, 60 Hz.

For 450&500:
Windows sensitivity multiplier - 1 (6/11);
In-game sensitivity - 1.539;
Real sensitivity (cm/360) - 60.01.

For 2300&500:
Windows sensitivity multiplier - 1 (6/11);
In-game sensitivity - 0.3011;
Real sensitivity (cm/360) - 60.01.

And what can I say? For me, ok? For me, I do not see any different ...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Anyway: if you feel comfortable with a setting just keep it and don't listen to forum hypes. Asking for advice only really helps if you feel that something is wrong. Otherwise it will only make you feel insecure about your setup which doesn't help either.


Totally agree.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Zowie FK without additional filter on lens, SS QcK Heavy, USB 3.0 port, *60 Hz*.


----------



## bvazx

And?


----------



## mint567

You have a good bit of input lag is what is implied when popups quoted you and bolded the 60hz. Most likely you wouldn't be able to tell since you already have a lot of input lag.


----------



## Berserker1

It doesnt depend only on monitor, if you have tweaked system then you can spot delays even with 2006 lcd.
With hpet, eist, c-states, nvidia scaling and 3 frames to render ahead its almost impossible to notice anything, unless your monitor is ultra fast.


----------



## Snakesoul

Wow never thought my comments\opinions would create such replies







(not my intention to hurt anyone)
Well i use, as you can see on my sig., a 120hz monitor, also use a amd 7950 for gaming (maybe it's placebo but the first times i played with it, i noticed some weird fps drops\changes, but that's another story...)
As i stated before, this a great mouse, i adapted to 450 dpi step (coming from 800 dpi that always felt very comfortable for me) in gaming.
Besides the scroll wheel and switches, i thought i couldn't adapt to LOD, but guess what? i love it.
On sunday, i could play a bit more (4 to 5 hours almost straight), and on monday my hand was sore.
I don't know if it's the hand muscles are "weak" and are adapting to shape and\or switches, but while gaming i can't notice anything.
I'm going to continue using this mouse, since it's more accurate and i'll have to live with that delay i told you about








BTW i already asked this, but should i change polling rate to 500hz (have a 120hz monitor) or should i just leave it default?

Offtopic: popups, could you please explain me how do you make your "quotes" like "comment - click to show", it gives a cleaner look to the post


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> You have a good bit of input lag is what is implied when popups quoted you and bolded the 60hz. Most likely you wouldn't be able to tell since you already have a lot of input lag.


Can somebody test FK with LCD-TV 400Hz?


----------



## mint567

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I repeat again, for me I don't have any lag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any differences in the movements of the cursor between FK, Spaw & G400.


Believe what you will even though there is plenty of measurable data that proves we all experience input lag from something be it mouse, monitor, video card, timings, etc. It may not be noticeable but it is there. I was merely answering to what you were confused about in his post. I do not own the mouse and cannot comment on the issue directly. If you can't tell a difference between the three then pick the one you like best. It is best to concentrate on gameplay and stick with what works for you and feels the best.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Can somebody test FK with LCD-TV 400Hz?


Hope you're being sarcastic, LCD TV's have horrible input lag, especially with interpolation on (the so called 400 Hz you're referring to).

They receive a 60 Hz signal and then use frame interpolation to create a refreshrate of 400.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> And?





The point being: you have a LCD that caps at 60Hz, input latency on that monitor is likely higher than the mouse. Even 120Hz LCDs have 1-4ms delay... Your setup most likely has a lot of latency as it is...



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Offtopic: popups, could you please explain me how do you make your "quotes" like "comment - click to show", it gives a cleaner look to the post





I use the spoiler option.


----------



## bvazx

I have LCD-panel CHIMEI INNOLUX N173HGE-L11...
It has response time - 2/6 (Typ.) (Tr/Td) ms...
I think you don't see any difference between 2-4-6 ms in game.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I have LCD-panel CHIMEI INNOLUX N173HGE-L11...
> It has response time - 2/6 (Typ.) (Tr/Td) ms...
> I think you don't see any difference between 2-4-6 ms in game.


Actually in terms of feel I think it works more in terms of having as few as possible devices causing a delay being your best solution. LCD's already having a delay making it very important everything else works like a charm.

Though eventually when a display is just horrible (TV's often being the pinnacle of horrible to play FPS's on), they'll have so much delay that the added delay of the other devices means nothing compared to it and the difference is less noticable.

(FYI I'm talking about delay noticeable by the human senses not theoretically measurable)


----------



## bvazx

When I wrote about TV test FK, it was joke.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I have LCD-panel CHIMEI INNOLUX N173HGE-L11...
> It has response time - 2/6 (Typ.) (Tr/Td) ms...
> I think you don't see any difference between 2-4-6 ms in game.


You are using a freaking laptop! Yes or No? Also we are talking about input latency not response time. For instance, when you use a resolution that isn't the native one, the scaler will induce various delays.


----------



## CorruptBE

Best to let the display to the scaling when using nvidia drivers.


----------



## Berserker1

Laptops have tons of delay from all those power saving features, so its harder to notice input lag.
And 2-6ms pixel response time is a lie, usually its much higher, 120+hz monitors with overdrive have ~3-5ms pixel response time.


----------



## jayfkay

input lag on average LCDs with 60hz is more like 15-30ms








below 15 could already be considered quite above average. edit: and those are the exceptions.


----------



## Art Vanelay

I really have never noticed this lag in games, and I used this mouse for more than two months.

Maybe if I try to look for it, I'll be able to notice it.

I'm on a 120Hz TN panel with light boost.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I don't think I noticed it in games at all. I only noticed it on the desktop when trying to select text.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't think I noticed it in games at all. I only noticed it on the desktop when trying to select text.


Then I think you don't mean input lag but rather what was called "pixel walk" by a Logitech engineer. Basically how good the cursor reacts to very small movements. I can see a delay there because the cursor only notices movement after a certain speed threshold, or at least that's what it seems like to me. But as I never move my mouse in such minuscule movements in game I didn't care.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Then I think you don't mean input lag but rather what was called "pixel walk" by a Logitech engineer. Basically how good the cursor reacts to very small movements. I can see a delay there because the cursor only notices movement after a certain speed threshold, or at least that's what it seems like to me. But as I never move my mouse in such minuscule movements in game I didn't care.


Yeah, that sounds right. Do you know if this is something that would be the same across all A3090 sensors?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, that sounds right. Do you know if this is something that would be the same across all A3090 sensors?


Hm, I guess not. But to be honest, I never really tried my other A3090 mice on 400 dpi where it seems to be most apparent.


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You are using a freaking laptop! Yes or No? Also we are talking about input latency not response time. For instance, when you use a resolution offer than the native one, the scaler will induce various delays.


I understand it that we are talking about input lag.
Yes,... Laptop, Acer V3-771g, CPU - i7, Ram - 8gb, GPU - 650m, SDD - 250.
Also I have PC,... I tested FK on it,... And what can I say? I can't notice any lag...

P.S.: I think this is the problem of the instance of mouse or hardware.
Or you need to turn off V-Sync simply.


----------



## popups

I swapped the Zowie FK's PCB and the AM-FG's PCB.

I put the FK's PCB into my AM's shell to test it. The FK's switches are higher in actuation force than my AM-FG. Also the springs in the scroll wheel are lighter in the FK compared to my AM. I am not sure if the FK's bottom shell places the PCB higher, I have to check that.

With my AM's PCB inside the FK's shell I noticed how much of a piece of crap the FK's shell is. At least when it comes to the top piece. I am talking about the mold flaw I explained earlier.

The top shell piece is so unstable it is ludicrous. The travel limiters are not very useful and the top shell fitment is bad. It changes the feel, reset and response of the switches per click unlike other mice. It's lackadaisical in it's recovery, likely why (to compensate) they use stiffer switches. Which means, if the mouse has to light of a switch it could be problematic / detrimental to switch control. Lately, I been experiencing that squeak others have reported -- it depends where I click.

They should have designed the shell with a more independent button piece, like the Diamondback and Intellimouse. That type of design wouldn't have these issues.



Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I understand it that we are talking about input lag.
> Yes,... Laptop, Acer V3-771g, CPU - i7, Ram - 8gb, GPU - 650m, SDD - 250.
> Also I have PC,... I tested FK on it,... And what can I say? I can't notice any lag...
> 
> P.S.: I think this is the problem of the instance of mouse or hardware.
> Or you need to turn off V-Sync simply.





Never used v-sync in my life.

I have had 5 different mice, they were all the same. It has already been explained why there is added latency. Initial motion and (especially) transitions is where it's noticeable. If you don't notice it that's on you -- it still exists. When a mouse is retaining less than 25% of the original data it will have tracking irregularities, there is no getting around that, only mitigating perception.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Hmm I am quite surprised to learn about the lag that some people say they experience with this mouse. Since I read this thread, I have done several very basic rough tests to see whether it was east to detect. I could not find any difference. Will be happy to learn more about it if someone can provide some evidence.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Hmm I am quite surprised to learn about the lag that some people say they experience with this mouse. Since I read this thread, I have done several very basic rough tests to see whether it was east to detect. I could not find any difference. Will be happy to learn more about it if someone can provide some evidence.





No one can provide evidence. We are not scientists.

When I use the Zowie EC/AM/FK with a low sensitivity (~84cm for a 360) I notice the delay when I am transitioning to targets. When there is three people rushing a site I have to swipe right, then left and back right. During all that the mouse doesn't feel connected to my hand movements when I am using the "450" setting. It doesn't feel like that when I use the "2300" setting.

If you don't notice anything don't worry about it. You're just not as perceptive.


----------



## Xanatos

When I used the evo ec2 450dpi, I felt there was some sort of cursor delay but wasn't sure. With the G100s, it feels fine with no doubt.


----------



## Emospence

Anyone else feel like this mouse is a little hard to grab/control? I use it at home and I feel very unused to it after using the G400 at work.

My hand is 20 cm (7.8 - 7.9 inches) from middle finger tip to where my hand ends and my wrist begins, and I use a fingertip grip.


----------



## jayfkay

XD its their smallest model basically. while g400 is one of the biggest mice on the market. what did you expect bro?


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> XD its their smallest model basically. while g400 is one of the biggest mice on the market. what did you expect bro?


It to be more comfortable/natural since my hands are medium-ish(I think) and I don't palm my mice..

Will it just take more getting used to, then?


----------



## jayfkay

It depends, really. I dont know your hands exactly nor have I held a FK, only the AM which already was way too small for me. I have big hands though.
MY advice would be to play your fastest, hardest game (say quake or free for all in any fastpaced shooter) for at least 1 hour straight and see how well the mouse feels by then. Nature finds its ways, your grip / hand position will adapt to the situation. If it feels comfortable and your hand isntt cramped too much, the answer is yes.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> XD its their smallest model basically. while g400 is one of the biggest mice on the market. what did you expect bro?


The G400 isn't exactly the best for large hands, though. My fingers extend past the buttons onto the rubber rim, and the back buttons and scroll wheel are way too far back for me. I like the feel of the AM, personally, but maybe I just have a weird grip style.

As for the comments about the mouse having a laggy feel, I feel like the mouse feels slightly off, but I can't really point my finger on why, and in addition, I don't really think this would affect my gameplay at all.


----------



## Emospence

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The G400 isn't exactly the best for large hands, though. My fingers extend past the buttons onto the rubber rim, and the back buttons and scroll wheel are way too far back for me. I like the feel of the AM, personally, but maybe I just have a weird grip style.
> 
> As for the comments about the mouse having a laggy feel, I feel like the mouse feels slightly off, but I can't really point my finger on why, and in addition, I don't really think this would affect my gameplay at all.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> It depends, really. I dont know your hands exactly nor have I held a FK, only the AM which already was way too small for me. I have big hands though.
> MY advice would be to play your fastest, hardest game (say quake or free for all in any fastpaced shooter) for at least 1 hour straight and see how well the mouse feels by then. Nature finds its ways, your grip / hand position will adapt to the situation. If it feels comfortable and your hand isntt cramped too much, the answer is yes.


How many inches are your hands from middle finger tip to the end of your hand (first big crease on the wrist)?


----------



## irakyl

Got the mouse yesterday, love it, i can fingergrip it well







, i 've tried the 2300 dpi and 450 dpi, the 2300 is faster while 450 is slower and smoother


----------



## Krepieresel

i just put in some omrons from my old intelli 1.1 (spare one which was never in use) and the feeling is so much better... at least for RTS games







now this mouse is perfect for me.


----------



## Emospence

2300 is the only native DPI, yes?

Are there any cons for going to 1150?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> 2300 is the only native DPI, yes?
> 
> Are there any cons for going to 1150?


Technically there is, but it would be very hard to say anyone notices it. It's fine to use it on 1150.


----------



## Emospence

Would I be right to say that staying 6/11 would be more important than using native DPI?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Would I be right to say that staying 6/11 would be more important than using native DPI?


Yeah, if you go above 6/11, it starts pixel skipping to hilariously bad degrees.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> How many inches are your hands from middle finger tip to the end of your hand (first big crease on the wrist)?


I'll tell you when I can find a ruler...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emospence*
> 
> Would I be right to say that staying 6/11 would be more important than using native DPI?


http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization

As a summary these are the values below 10/20 and their according properties:
 1/20 =  1 % = 0.03125 (harmonic)
 2/20 = 11 % = 0.0625 (harmonic)
 3/20 = 16 % = 0.125 (harmonic)
 4/20 = 21 % = 0.25 (harmonic)
 5/20 = 26 % = 0.375 (inconsistent)
 6/20 = 31 % = 0.5 (harmonic)
 7/20 = 36 % = 0.625 (inconsistent)
 8/20 = 41 % = 0.75 (inconsistent)
 9/20 = 46 % = 0.875 (inconsistent)

I'm pretty sure that if you use any of the harmonic settings it will be fine. If the mouse has problems on certain DPIs (IE: 450 & 1150 have problems but 2300 is fine) I'm pretty sure it'd be ideal to set the mouse to 2300DPI and set windows to 4/11 or lower.


----------



## popups

The 1150 setting drops every other count, like a lot of other mice that have a 400-450 setting. BST's mouse does the same thing for the 400 setting. It's a smoother process to drop half the counts, there is less delay and there shouldn't be any irregularities. However, it does not feel like a Intellimouse or a earlier Avago sensor.


----------



## exousia

How come Zowie doesn't even make their user manual available online? I don't even know what DPI setting is what based on the light color at the bottom. Can someone help me out?


----------



## Xanatos

it's on the box.


----------



## MLJS54

Can anyone recommend a good pair of mouse skates for the FK?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exousia*
> 
> How come Zowie doesn't even make their user manual available online? I don't even know what DPI setting is what based on the light color at the bottom. Can someone help me out?


Red light - 450 DPI
Purple light - 1150 DPI
Blue light - 2300 DPI

USB report rate adjustment:
Hold down these buttons and then connect the mouse through USB...
Button 4 - 1000 Hz
Button 5 - 500 Hz
Button 4+5 - 125 Hz


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Here's some of my worklog of switching the Zowie FK's microswitches. (I changed the side buttons too)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disassembled and ready to go. Bye bye TTC and Huano switches!
> 
> 
> 
> To be replaced by the divine Japanese Omron D2F-01F
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the side buttons being switched out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More views.
> 
> 
> 
> I just ripped the Huano's off their connectors because it was such a pain to get them off.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I realized I was a moron and had changed the wrong side buttons.
> 
> 
> 
> Took forever to get my own D2F-01F A's off but I did and then ripped off the other huanos too. Only the spikes of iron remained which I pulled off with a tweezer.
> 
> 
> 
> The soldering holes didn't empty cleanly so one set of switches didn't get all the way through. I couldn't for the life of me get rid of the solder to push it all the way through. It is at an angle. However, the mouse side buttons still function after jiggling so whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Many Huanos were destroyed in the making of this mouse. Rest in pieces! (though most people won't have a problem with the ones Zowie used this time; they were quite soft similar to the Omron 7N's.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun Project, and getting rid of the right side buttons made my mouse a little bit lighter anyways. I did the tape mod to firm up the wheel a bit though mouse wheel clicks are a little annoying. I found that varying how much you tighten the 4 bottom screws on assembly affected the tactile feeling of the 2 main buttons and mouse wheel. I kept tightening and loosening screws until I got as close to the perfect tactility I desired. This bad boy is now a beast on all levels. Much lighter than my EC2 Evo but still wide enough to be stable for rapid clicking versus the AM.
> 
> The perfect mouse in every way after some work.


going to say, i was going to try this mod to reduce the weight, and i just ended up removing the entire pcb with the sidebuttons, its noticeably lighter now


----------



## irakyl

does any body know how to clean up the rubber coating???? my fingerprints are all over it


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *irakyl*
> 
> does any body know how to clean up the rubber coating???? my fingerprints are all over it


I just use a slightly damp paper towel with a bit of soap, then wipe dry with another paper towel.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *irakyl*
> 
> does any body know how to clean up the rubber coating???? my fingerprints are all over it


That's the way the coating works. It's supposed to absorb sweat and oils from your hands.


----------



## irakyl

thanks


----------



## Emospence

Which would give me better performance, 2300 (native) dpi and lower windows sensitivity to 4/11 or so, or stay 6/11 and reduce dpi to 1150?


----------



## bvazx

Trusting your instincts.


----------



## CorruptBE

I'd go with 1150 first unless you hit the malfunction speed, then you're better off using the 2300 dpi and 4/11. That or your bloody instincts indeed xD


----------



## MLJS54

Can anyone recommend a good pair of slick skates for the FK? Would love something similar to the materials used on the Hyperglides that I have for my MS 1.1

Thanks.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good pair of slick skates for the FK? Would love something similar to the materials used on the Hyperglides that I have for my MS 1.1
> 
> Thanks.


mine came with a second pair of mouse feet (?). i just attached those onto the first pair already on there and it worked very well. so uh, i didn't really answer you question but perhaps you already have some nice ones in the box or elsewhere...


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good pair of slick skates for the FK? Would love something similar to the materials used on the Hyperglides that I have for my MS 1.1
> 
> Thanks.


Check these out,

http://www.amazon.com/Zowie-Gear-Skeepdy-Skatez-AM/dp/B00AWK7IIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Check these out,
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Zowie-Gear-Skeepdy-Skatez-AM/dp/B00AWK7IIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1


$10 for a set of mouse feet... jesus christ.


----------



## ich1ban

Or you could just email them and say you didn't get an extra pair with the one you got and they'll send you another pair via a flimsy envelope which would've cost like $20 delivered from their store for free.


----------



## Ickz

My right click started acting up today :\ While holding it down, it'll sometimes register as not clicked for a split second. Super noticeable in MMOs where you're holding it down constantly to mouse look. Had mine for less than six months and, like all my gear, it was well taken care of.


----------



## ronal

I looking for a replacement for my fk, I'm thinking about getting the CM Recon, what do you guys think.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I looking for a replacement for my fk, I'm thinking about getting the CM Recon, what do you guys think.


as I mentioned many times before CM Storm recon weight is inbalanced if you pick up youre mouse frequently it feels very bad.
All the weight is in the back of the mouse. For the rest the mouse is decent just what you would expect from a avago 3090 high lod good good tracking decent max malfunction speeds.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> My right click started acting up today :\ While holding it down, it'll sometimes register as not clicked for a split second. Super noticeable in MMOs where you're holding it down constantly to mouse look. Had mine for less than six months and, like all my gear, it was well taken care of.


I'm starting to have the exact same issue after only 2 months.


----------



## MLJS54

Can't even go back to my MS iO 1.1 after using the FK for almost two weeks. Absolutely love this mouse.

I just can't seem to decide which pad it tracks best on: Hien VE red, Hayate black or Puretrak Talent.

P.S. How is the FK on the Zowie cloth pad (CM)? Is it a carbon copy of the QcK or slower/faster?


----------



## jayfkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can't even go back to my MS iO 1.1 after using the FK for almost two weeks. Absolutely love this mouse.
> 
> I just can't seem to decide which pad it tracks best on: Hien VE red, Hayate black or Puretrak Talent.
> 
> P.S. How is the FK on the Zowie cloth pad (CM)? Is it a carbon copy of the QcK or slower/faster?


the tracking will be equal for 99%... the difference is the gliding. its up to you. I recommend a plastic pad, fell in love with the nearly zero resistance after trying it.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can't even go back to my MS iO 1.1 after using the FK for almost two weeks. Absolutely love this mouse.
> 
> I just can't seem to decide which pad it tracks best on: Hien VE red, Hayate black or Puretrak Talent.


tried all three, hien VE red


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

ok


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> I've heard that some people can't rest or grip the side of the FK with their ring finger.


Not sure where you heard that from but that is false. I experienced that with Steelseries mice though. The Steelseries mice are really low in the front. I also have that problem with the IE 3.0 and thus have to tape something hard there, but there are no problems of that sort with the FK or AM, and I have big hands. My review's in my signature.


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

ji


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can't even go back to my MS iO 1.1 after using the FK for almost two weeks. Absolutely love this mouse.
> 
> I just can't seem to decide which pad it tracks best on: Hien VE red, Hayate black or Puretrak Talent.
> 
> P.S. How is the FK on the Zowie cloth pad (CM)? Is it a carbon copy of the QcK or slower/faster?


I have now the Zowie P-TF. Glide about the same as the 4HD, and feels less rough. Doesn't stick to my desk as well as 4HD. Needs flattening as it comes rolled up.

Would also consider the Corsair MM200.


----------



## Kyal

Considering buying an FK, what's the shape like compared to an AM?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Considering buying an FK, what's the shape like compared to an AM?


The AM has no grip. The bottom is wider than the top.

This is fixed in the FK.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> tried all three, hien VE red


Yup, that's what I decided on using full time after this weekend. Best combo of speed and control for me with the FK. Probably going to sell my Hayate and Puretrak soon.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The AM has no grip. The bottom is wider than the top.
> 
> This is fixed in the FK.


I was able to grip the AM just fine. I just held it a bit differently than I would something with concave sides.


----------



## ronal

I need help choosing the right switch for my FK. I just took apart my Mystify Mamba SE mouse and I see it uses the (N/O N/C switch which is red). Would this fit the FK and are these better than the white omron switch.


----------



## Ickz

I was going to try fixing the double click issue on my right mouse button. After looking around, I've seen videos and whatnot for other mice saying to open up the switch and bend the metal contact piece or whatever. Anyone know if this would be applicable with the switches in the FK?


----------



## manicmonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I was going to try fixing the double click issue on my right mouse button. After looking around, I've seen videos and whatnot for other mice saying to open up the switch and bend the metal contact piece or whatever. Anyone know if this would be applicable with the switches in the FK?


Any Luck? My right click has started behaving oddly over the past 2 days, even though I have only had the mouse for 6 months. Is your issue the same as mine? In FPS games when I right click to ADS sometimes it registers a second click and scopes out mid way through ADSing...so annoying.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

IMO the best thing to do is send it back to Zowie and hope to get a new mouse. The switches for the click are just getting too worn out and will accidentally double click, happened to me after playing too much Dota and right clicking all the time.


----------



## Ickz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> Any Luck? My right click has started behaving oddly over the past 2 days, even though I have only had the mouse for 6 months. Is your issue the same as mine? In FPS games when I right click to ADS sometimes it registers a second click and scopes out mid way through ADSing...so annoying.


Yep, I notice mine because of mouselooking so much in MMOs. I'll be holding down rmb to mouselook and it'll sometimes register as if I'm letting go and reclicking the button.


----------



## popups

Are you guys right handed? Maybe you are putting a lot of pressure on the mouse causing it to act weird. I had weird behavior with the switches when I put to much pressure on the top portion of the shell. That is because the shell has a flaw with the button piece. It greatly affected my performance in-game.


----------



## manicmonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Are you guys right handed? Maybe you are putting a lot of pressure on the mouse causing it to act weird. I had weird behavior with the switches when I put to much pressure on the top portion of the shell. That is because the shell has a flaw with the button piece. It greatly affected my performance in-game.


Good Idea, but sadly no its a problem with the mouse. Even if I let go of the mouse completely and just press right click with one finger it still registers a double click 50% of the time. Dunno what that says about build quality as this mouse is only 6 months old, my G400 and deathadder never had any issues and Ive had those for way longer.


----------



## Acknown3

My FK has started to squeak after only one day. I saw a few comments here mentioning that it's caused by two pieces of plastic rubbing together, which can be solved with a nail filer. My question is, are the components that create the squeak internal, or is it literally the left mouse button rubbing against the plastic close to where the mouse wheel is?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acknown3*
> 
> My FK has started to squeak after only one day. I saw a few comments here mentioning that it's caused by two pieces of plastic rubbing together, which can be solved with a nail filer. My question is, are the components that create the squeak internal, or is it literally the left mouse button rubbing against the plastic close to where the mouse wheel is?


It seems like it is the top shell that is rubbing the middle shell. I don't know exactly if it is the the scroll wheel area or the travel limiters. If you press down on the top of the mouse and click the button it might squeak. If you press the far left side of the button it can squeak. I am leaning more towards the travel limiters. You would have to open the mouse and take it apart either way.

You could try to first shave the area of the buttons that gets stuck on the scroll wheel area when you press on the top of the mouse (near the side buttons) and click. If it still squeaks it has to be one of the travel limiters, most likely the one for downward travel. Before you open it, press on the top portion of the mouse where the buttons separate, the buttons will spread apart, this might work for awhile before it starts again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> Good Idea, but sadly no its a problem with the mouse. Even if I let go of the mouse completely and just press right click with one finger it still registers a double click 50% of the time.


Press on the top portion of the mouse where the buttons separate to spread the buttons apart. Then press M2 either in the groove or a little to the left with out touching any other part of the mouse. Just use your finger tip.


----------



## Art Vanelay

So I started using my Zowie AM again because my G400 is having that annoying ghost scroll bug happening.

What DPI and polling steps are ideal for these mice? Which one has the highest tracking speed? The 2300 DPI step seems to have less of that weird floaty feel, but I'm not sure if there is some negative acceleration when I move it really fast.


----------



## TriviumKM

As far as i know 2300 / 1000 gives the best performance / no delay / highest max tracking speed. The other two dpi steps are best at 500 polling with 450 / 500 giving the highest max tracking of the two.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> As far as i know 2300 / 1000 gives the best performance / no delay / highest max tracking speed. The other two dpi steps are best at 500 polling with 450 / 500 giving the highest max tracking of the two.


Okay, I guess I'll try 2300/1000 then.

Is 3/11 sensitivity in windows a harmonic DPI step?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is 3/11 sensitivity in windows a harmonic DPI step?


Yes. http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization


----------



## Sencha

Hey guys,

Need some advice re this mouse. Was waiting for the kana v2 but I actually prefer zowie switches so going to pick up the FK. Couple of points. I got bone dry hands. DABE just slips from my grip, gloss is basically like glue on my hands. Having said that the xai wasn't a problem for me at all. In fact I loved that coating. Will the shape of this mean I'm probably fine?

Also I've currently got a fnatic qck. I love the team editions of the qck due to the glide being slicker then the standard qck. With this mouse is it just that the malfunction speed is lower on coloured pads? If so what sort of level? I could probably live with that for a week or two till I get a new mat.

One last question I don't like zowie am/fk stock feet, but I have a huge supply (x4 sets







) of 1.1/3.0 hypers which I always use on any mouse I get. They are 0.5mm would I be fine with the height of these?

Cheers


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Need some advice re this mouse. Was waiting for the kana v2 but I actually prefer zowie switches so going to pick up the FK. Couple of points. I got bone dry hands. DABE just slips from my grip, gloss is basically like glue on my hands. Having said that the xai wasn't a problem for me at all. In fact I loved that coating. Will the shape of this mean I'm probably fine?
> 
> Also I've currently got a fnatic qck. I love the team editions of the qck due to the glide being slicker then the standard qck. With this mouse is it just that the malfunction speed is lower on coloured pads? If so what sort of level? I could probably live with that for a week or two till I get a new mat.
> 
> One last question I don't like zowie am/fk stock feet, but I have a huge supply (x4 sets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) of 1.1/3.0 hypers which I always use on any mouse I get. They are 0.5mm would I be fine with the height of these?
> 
> Cheers





Much like you the DeathAdder BE did the same for me. The AM/EC white gloss sticks to my hands great. The FK's coating is better than the DeathAdder BE, but it isn't as great as the gloss (for me). The shape does help with this, at least for lifting the front of the mouse. I sweat a lot using the FK, when I do the coating does start to give more traction, then it starts to show finger/hand prints. All you have to do is add some clear tape to the contact points (I do this with the DeathAdder BE to) to mimic a glossy mouse.

Non uniformed surfaces cause the mouse to loose its tracking precision. You may have the same malfunction speed on the surface, but as you pass onto different colors the mouse acts up. On some pads the cursor would "stick" for a noticeable time as the sensor went over a different color.

The stock feet are ~0.45mm thick. That additional 0.5mm is not a problem, it might even stop the mouse from scraping the pad like it does now. I haven't measured the lens height on the FK, it does seem the same as the AM, which means you could even use 0.6mm feet. *Now for the caveat: some mouse pads will have super low LOD with stock feet. This will stop you from using taller feet. You can get a new pad to raise the LOD or you can open the mouse to take off the lens filter to increase LOD.*


----------



## Sencha

Thanks popups. I may risk it then! Oh and yeah I put sticky tape on my DABE on contact points as well


----------



## Sencha

OK got one and just thought I'd post my thoughts for others, even though there's more then enough in this thread already but let me indulge myself.

Even though my hands are big ish (22cm from base to tip - that sounds wrong LOL) I actually like the size. I would have preferred it a touch more like the 1.1 shape but it feels very nice. The clicks are superb, love those switches!. the lens again is wonky in exactly the same way that both my AM were. And some one can correct me on this but I swear it causes a slight rise in the horizontal tracking going from left to right (please feel free to chime in and dispute!) Basically the lens is slightly twisted off center.

Lift off is a little to low for me, but I would have gotten use to that fast. I'm talking about it like I don't own it anymore and that's because I've already sent it back. number one reason being the coating. While the shape is great to grab, with my bone dry hands the grip wasn't locked in. And had bits of give and shift all the time. I could have done what popups suggested but with a few new mice coming along that I'm interested in I thought F' it!

Accuracy of the sensor felt superb. And I was even impressed with the malfunction speed on the qck fnatic although I could cause it to bug out with fast whip round in game. But that's not really a problem.

If it was gloss white I would have kept it and been happy. My bad though, I'm going to have to completely right off all mice that are matte rubber from now on. Seems the Xai was a random freak occurrence that fitted me perfectly.

TLDR: don't worry just waffling on, you didnt miss much.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Comment



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> OK got one and just thought I'd post my thoughts for others, even though there's more then enough in this thread already but let me indulge myself.
> 
> Even though my hands are big ish (22cm from base to tip - that sounds wrong LOL) I actually like the size. I would have preferred it a touch more like the 1.1 shape but it feels very nice. The clicks are superb, love those switches!. the lens again is wonky in exactly the same way that both my AM were. And some one can correct me on this but I swear it causes a slight rise in the horizontal tracking going from left to right (please feel free to chime in and dispute!) Basically the lens is slightly twisted off center.
> 
> Lift off is a little to low for me, but I would have gotten use to that fast. I'm talking about it like I don't own it anymore and that's because I've already sent it back. number one reason being the coating. While the shape is great to grab, with my bone dry hands the grip wasn't locked in. And had bits of give and shift all the time. I could have done what popups suggested but with a few new mice coming along that I'm interested in I thought F' it!
> 
> Accuracy of the sensor felt superb. And I was even impressed with the malfunction speed on the qck fnatic although I could cause it to bug out with fast whip round in game. But that's not really a problem.
> 
> If it was gloss white I would have kept it and been happy. My bad though, I'm going to have to completely right off all mice that are matte rubber from now on. Seems the Xai was a random freak occurrence that fitted me perfectly.





Yeah, this new coating, that's replacing the rubber coatings, has its own flaws. You really have to have abnormally sweating hands for it to work well. Luckily the coating makes you sweat abnormally. I think the G400S and the Rival use this coating as well. To me, this coating is used because it makes the mouse look nice / high quality to the consumer and it helps with any possible light bleed.

I would like to see a rough textured (grainy plastic?) mouse instead of these "cheap" coatings used today.

I would have sent the Zowie FK back too. I decided against doing that. That's not because I like it that much. I don't like that FK nearly as much as I do the white AM. It was a hassle to send it back... I also kept it because I can use the parts for my AM.

The Xai looks and sounds like a really nice mouse. To bad it has a laser sensor inside. The Sensei does not appeal to me like the Xai does. Couldn't SteelSeries bring back the "Xai" with a 3310 inside, a flexible rubber cable and the Sensei scroll wheel? Then refer to it as another Sensei Raw? Basically a Sensei without the laser sensor, braided cable, fake metal coating, LED logo and LED display. The switches and the scroll wheel would not be cheap components though.


----------



## Vikhr

When I was using the FK my hands would sweat a lot more than they would with a traditional rubber coating, it felt pretty slippery when my hand started sweating, I never felt like I had a good grip on the mouse because of that. Rubber coatings are no better for me, they also get really nasty and sticky after they've been used for a while and they're harder to clean than a glossy or textured surface.

Would rather have a glossy finish or a rough textured finish like the one found on the WMO or Intellimouse 1.1, I wasn't a huge fan of the DA 2013's textured finish as it was too fine and my hand would just slip off of the mouse. I want to see more mice like the white Zowie's or something like the Legends edition 3.0s.

It's kind of disappointing to see that the Rival will be coming with a finish that's like the FK's, that's a major turn off for me and I can only hope that they'll release a glossy variant in the future (if the mouse is actually decent of course).


----------



## popups

I knew the coating of the FK was going to be crappy for my hands. That is why I asked Zowie Gear, before the FK even came out, if they would release a white version. I doubt they will because it would be confusing as the AM and FK look similar to some. Also it costs more to do that.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Hmm... the IE 1.1 had a grainy plastic coating and it was probably the worst coating on a mouse I've ever tried. I constantly struggled with gripping that mouse and tried to glue and tape on a number of things to improve the grip. This is essentially the sole reason for the SS versions of those mice...

When switching to the deathadder part of my skill level shooting up so drastically was probably greatly due to the excellent grip provided by both the rubber coating and the rubber side grips.

Glossy can be nice, but if your hands start to sweat it'll get slippery as hell. I've had to put some sticky things on my LE 3.0 to improve the grip for when my hands sweat.

>_That is why I asked Zowie Gear, before the FK even came out, if they would release a white version. I doubt they will because it would be confusing as the AM and FK look similar to some. Also it costs more to do that._

The AM is garbage. They should just discontinue it and do the glossy for the FK if there's enough demand for that.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Hmm... the IE 1.1 had a grainy plastic coating and it was probably the worst coating on a mouse I've ever tried. I constantly struggled with gripping that mouse and tried to glue and tape on a number of things to improve the grip. This is essentially the sole reason for the SS versions of those mice...
> 
> When switching to the deathadder part of my skill level shooting up so drastically was probably greatly due to the excellent grip provided by both the rubber coating and the rubber side grips.
> 
> Glossy can be nice, but if your hands start to sweat it'll get slippery as hell. I've had to put some sticky things on my LE 3.0 to improve the grip for when my hands sweat.
> 
> The AM is garbage. They should just discontinue it and do the glossy for the FK if there's enough demand for that.


It depends on how you create that "rough" texture. You say the rubber grips on the DeathAdder help you, well those are not slick rubber, there is a "rough" pattern to them.

I never had a problem with glossy mice like the Diamondback or AM, even the normal DA. I prefer glossy, but others may want a rough surface purely based on appearance. My hands don't sweat normally when I use a mouse, I am normal like that.

I like the AM more than I like the DeathAdder, EC1, EC2, FK and Kana. It's more than the shape and size. I rather splice the FK and IMO shapes, not how the Sensei does it though. I would use the FK over th AM if it was done well. As of right now (far as I know) the AM is the best thing alternative to a Intellimouse Optical's shape.

By the way. You oddly have the opposite opinion for everything.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

>_By the way. You oddly have the opposite opinion for everything._

Haha, what do you mean? The opposite from you? I feel like agree with a good amount of what you say. Why do you prefer the AM over the FK? The shape of the AM seems vastly inferior for any hand size and all grip types...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> >_By the way. You oddly have the opposite opinion for everything._
> 
> Haha, what do you mean? The opposite from you? I feel like agree with a good amount of what you say. Why do you prefer the AM over the FK? The shape of the AM seems vastly inferior for any hand size and all grip types...


The AM's shape has always worked for me. It fits me better than my G400. I went back to the G400 because the mouse just feels like something is off. I can't aim quite right with it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Why do you prefer the AM over the FK? The shape of the AM seems vastly inferior for any hand size and all grip types...


I like the AM over other mice for many reasons.

I like how all the buttons don't have as much flex as the EC. The buttons are in-front of the scroll wheel instead of behind it. The buttons are not mushy like the DeathAdder 3.5G. The AM doesn't have a scroll wheel issue like the EC. It doesn't have a braided cable like the DeathAdder. It polls higher than the DeathAdder 3.5G. I don't need drivers like I do with the DeathAdder.

The AM is taller than the FK and wider. The side buttons are easier to actuate than the FK. The palm area is more supportive. It has coating options. It doesn't have a mold flaw with the top shell piece like the FK. The top shell piece extends all the way to the sides, whereas the FK's top piece stops before it reaches the sides of the mouse, so there is less usable area with the FK. The main buttons feel taller on the AM. The switches in my AM-FG are lighter than the FK's, they're more suitable for the shell, this why I use my AM PCB in the FK.

You may wonder if there is anything I like about the FK. I like how the scroll wheel area extends all the way to the front. The lower placed side buttons. The stress relief for the cable. The taller scroll wheel. The bottom shell's shape at the edges. The lighter side buttons. Conceptually, I like how the top of the sides extend outwardly.

If the shape was better thought out and properly tested with various users, the FK would be my go to mouse, even though the sensor isn't that great. If the Kana v2 had a better design for the sides (and a slight change to the rear) of the mouse, I would rather use that over the FK.


----------



## EtraN

Am i the only one that has taken issue with the low lift of distance on the Zowie FK? Ive been using a Zowie AM for quite some time but figured the \\\/// shape would be better for me. But now, since i get such a good grip from underneath i lift it just a tiny bit sometimes when i dont want to, meaning it stops tracking for a tiny moment (because of its very low LOD).

It doesnt happen a lot, but i really would have prefered it with a higher LOD. Im back to using the good old zowie AM now (that ofcourse has the very same low LOD, but i never unintentionally lift the AM).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EtraN*
> 
> Am i the only one that has taken issue with the low lift of distance on the Zowie FK? Ive been using a Zowie AM for quite some time but figured the \\\/// shape would be better for me. But now, since i get such a good grip from underneath i lift it just a tiny bit sometimes when i dont want to, meaning it stops tracking for a tiny moment (because of its very low LOD).
> 
> It doesnt happen a lot, but i really would have prefered it with a higher LOD. Im back to using the good old zowie AM now (that ofcourse has the very same low LOD, but i never unintentionally lift the AM).


You can take off the lens filter.


----------



## Sencha

What are the effects of that?

Presumably it tracks better on coloured pads?

Higher liftoff of course....but crazy high?

And a change to the DPI?

And if I were to get an EC1 can I just open it up and pop this out without fuss?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> What are the effects of that?
> 
> Presumably it tracks better on coloured pads?
> 
> Higher liftoff of course....but crazy high?
> 
> And a change to the DPI?
> 
> And if I were to get an EC1 can I just open it up and pop this out without fuss?


A higher LOD. My AM went up to about 2.5mm. It depends on the mouse pad and your particular mouse. The EC LOD is different than the AM/FK.

I didn't notice a CPI change. I didn't test it for that...

Tracking must be tested to see if you notice anything. I cannot say how your mouse will react.

The EC has a triangle shaped screw. If you don't have that kind of screw driver you cannot open it. I don't know if the CL versions of the EC is the same. The AM and FK do not have any triangle shaped screws. Zowie is *stupid* to have security screws on their mice.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A higher LOD. My AM went up to about 2.5mm. It depends on the mouse pad and your particular mouse. The EC LOD is different than the AM/FK.
> 
> I didn't notice a CPI change. I didn't test it for that...
> 
> Tracking must be tested to see if you notice anything. I cannot say how your mouse will react.
> 
> The EC has a triangle shaped screw. If you don't have that kind of screw driver you cannot open it. I don't know if the CL versions of the EC is the same. The AM and FK do not have any triangle shaped screws. Zowie is *stupid* to have security screws on their mice.


Thanks popups. Some good info there.


----------



## eosgreen

why cant they make dif switches lol.

whats the general view of the sensor performance. good bad? i overheard destiny claim it was an incredible sensor aka no accel and angle snapping so i thought id stop by this stream


----------



## MaximilianKohler

"Incredible" isn't really the term I'd use for it. Different people seem to have different experiences with it so...

Also, keep in mind that while the A3090 sensor is one of the best on the market, each mouse manufacturer makes little changes to it so not every mouse with the sensor will feel the same.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> "Incredible" isn't really the term I'd use for it. Different people seem to have different experiences with it so...
> 
> Also, keep in mind that while the A3090 sensor is one of the best on the market, each mouse manufacturer makes little changes to it so not every mouse with the sensor will feel the same.


Yeah, I recently went back to this mouse because my G400's scroll wheel is being screwy, but I could not get used to the feel of the sensor. It feels like something is slightly off on 450 DPI. At 2300 DPI, I felt like I could barely hit anything with it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Yeah, I recently went back to this mouse because my G400's scroll wheel is being screwy, but I could not get used to the feel of the sensor. It feels like something is slightly off on 450 DPI. At 2300 DPI, I felt like I could barely hit anything with it.


Yup. The 450 setting is definitely not good.

The 1150 setting is fine if you cannot use the 2300 setting. That setting is much like many other 3090 mice just different CPI. I used this a little with CS 1.6 when I didn't use raw input, I adapted to it after a day.

The 2300 setting is the best setting. It's the only real setting for this Zowie version of the 3090. I use it all the time in GO with raw input on. I have no problem using it when I set my sensitivity properly. I actually like using it like this in GO... A low sensitivity of 0.26 feels so fluid/accurate for me.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yup. The 450 setting is definitely not good.
> 
> The 1150 setting is fine if you cannot use the 2300 setting. That setting is much like many other 3090 mice just different CPI. I used this a little with CS 1.6 when I didn't use raw input, I adapted to it after a day.
> 
> The 2300 setting is the best setting. It's the only real setting for this Zowie version of the 3090. I use it all the time in GO with raw input on. I have no problem using it when I set my sensitivity properly. I actually like using it like this in GO... A low sensitivity of 0.26 feels so fluid/accurate for me.


The thing about the 2300 DPI setting was that it felt like it was laggy or something. Even at the same sensitivity as I normally played at, it just felt off, compared to my G400 and my Deathadder.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The thing about the 2300 DPI setting was that it felt like it was laggy or something. Even at the same sensitivity as I normally played at, it just felt off, compared to my G400 and my Deathadder.


Mice don't have the same CPI, maybe that is the issue.

The Zowie version is similar to the DeathAdder 3G (1800 CPI).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Mice don't have the same CPI, maybe that is the issue.
> 
> The Zowie version is similar to the DeathAdder 3G (1800 CPI).


I don't really see how an increase in DPI would make the mouse feel off like it did. My suspicion is that I was hitting the max tracking speed and it was experiencing negative acceleration, so it felt really off.

Also, does the sensor in the Deathadder 3G feel more responsive than the ones in more modern mice? I've heard people praise the older Avago sensors over the newer ones. Personally, I found that my MX518 didn't feel like it was more responsive, but it had this weird sensation like the cursor was moving faster than it really was. I assume that was because of prediction.


----------



## popups

Going from a mouse with 400 CPI (using a sensitivity of 1) to a mouse with 450 CPI (using a sensitivity of 1) will feel weird. You have to accurately compensate your sensitivity with each mouse to have it feel the "same" in-game. Keep in mind that changing your sensitivity in-game can change the feel of the game.

I play with a very low sensitivity. I don't hit malfunction with the Zowie mice. However, I only use single color mouse pads. The malfunction speed is pretty high on the Zowie mice, higher than you think.

The frame rate of each mouse can be different. This is a potential factor of how a mouse will feel. Some mice will have brighter LEDs, vice versa, which can increase or lower frame rates. This is why I use a red mouse pad all the time, to make sure I have max frames with LED mice.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Going from a mouse with 400 CPI (using a sensitivity of 1) to a mouse with 450 CPI (using a sensitivity of 1) will feel weird. You have to accurately compensate your sensitivity with each mouse to have it feel the "same" in-game. Keep in mind that changing your sensitivity in-game can change the feel of the game.
> 
> I play with a very low sensitivity. I don't hit malfunction with the Zowie mice. However, I only use single color mouse pads. The malfunction speed is pretty high on the Zowie mice, higher than you think.
> 
> The frame rate of each mouse can be different. This is a potential factor of how a mouse will feel. Some mice will have brighter LEDs, vice versa, which can increase or lower frame rates. This is why I use a red mouse pad all the time, to make sure I have max frames with LED mice.


I was using a sensitivity of 1.75 at 450 DPI and a sensitivity of 2.1 at 400 DPI, and then at 2300 DPI, the sensitivity was like 0.6 or something.

I know how high the malfunction speed on Zowie mice is because I can get the mouse to skip really easily. I've almost never done it in game, though. The perfect control speed, however, is lower than the malfunction speed, and most mice hit a negative acceleration before they malfunction. I think that's what I am feeling. I remember it being somewhat similarly strange feeling when I used my WMO, although to a much greater degree.

Red mousepads increase the frame rate of the mouse? I thought they only increased LOD. I wouldn't expect the frame rate to differ too much since they are all on basically the same sensor.


----------



## exousia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> it's on the box.


It should be in more places than that. Like a lot of people, I throw the box away pretty quickly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Red light - 450 DPI
> Purple light - 1150 DPI
> Blue light - 2300 DPI
> 
> USB report rate adjustment:
> Hold down these buttons and then connect the mouse through USB...
> Button 4 - 1000 Hz
> Button 5 - 500 Hz
> Button 4+5 - 125 Hz


Thank you good sir. +rep.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exousia*
> 
> It should be in more places than that. Like a lot of people, I throw the box away pretty quickly.


Avoid throwing boxes away if you ever plan on using the warranty on anything.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exousia*
> 
> It should be in more places than that. Like a lot of people, I throw the box away pretty quickly..


I still have the boxes to my mice, even the ones from years ago. Except the Diamondback, someone threw that away.


----------



## Dudebroguy

I've been using an FK for a month or so and everything about the FK shape seems slightly off to me. I prefer the WMO shape and the FK seems slighty too low (base of my palm doesn't quite get enough support), too narrow and the indents for left/right click seem too cause my fingers to sit a bit too low.

I've been eyeballing the AM and it seems a bit larger in general and lacks the indents in the shell that bother me. Would the AM be a better fit for me or are the same problems still present? (too small compared to WMO?). Is the / \ shape really that bad on the AM?


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudebroguy*
> 
> I've been using an FK for a month or so and everything about the FK shape seems slightly off to me. I prefer the WMO shape and the FK seems slighty too low (base of my palm doesn't quite get enough support), too narrow and the indents for left/right click seem too cause my fingers to sit a bit too low.
> 
> I've been eyeballing the AM and it seems a bit larger in general and lacks the indents in the shell that bother me. Would the AM be a better fit for me or are the same problems still present? (too small compared to WMO?). Is the / \ shape really that bad on the AM?


I have both and there is a difference, but IMO you'll be better served by a EC2 Evo, if you like the FK but find it too cramped. The AM is also a bit too narrow.


----------



## bobsaget

Just plugged in my Zowie FK holding M4 button to set the polling rate @ 1000hz. How can I check it worked though?


----------



## popups

You can use Enotus.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudebroguy*
> 
> I've been using an FK for a month or so and everything about the FK shape seems slightly off to me. I prefer the WMO shape and the FK seems slighty too low (base of my palm doesn't quite get enough support), too narrow and the indents for left/right click seem too cause my fingers to sit a bit too low.
> 
> I've been eyeballing the AM and it seems a bit larger in general and lacks the indents in the shell that bother me. Would the AM be a better fit for me or are the same problems still present? (too small compared to WMO?). Is the / \ shape really that bad on the AM?


I felt the same way as you. I tried both the AM and FK and even though the FK had the flaws you mentioned, I felt that the AM was much worse. Review in my signature if you're interested.


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can use Enotus.


Thanks. The left click also has an INCREDIBLY annoying "grinding" noise whenever i press the button (needless to say all the time). Idk if grinding" is the proper word here. Maybe "creaking" or "squeaking" are more appropriate.

Any help appreciated


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> The left click also has an INCREDIBLY annoying "grinding" noise whenever i press the button (needless to say all the time). Idk if grinding" is the proper word here. Maybe "creaking" or "squeaking" are more appropriate.
> 
> Any help appreciated


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1520_20#post_21025152


----------



## Dudebroguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> I have both and there is a difference, but IMO you'll be better served by a EC2 Evo, if you like the FK but find it too cramped. The AM is also a bit too narrow.


Aren't the EC mice made primarily for palm gripping? I'm a claw gripper and I had a deathadder 3g for a while and I didn't care for the shape, and the EC1/2 look to have a similar shape.


----------



## jogosa

Is it worth having the switches replaced to Omrons if previously I've been using Sensei?
I have yet to replace an LED and ceramic resonator into a crystal one, might as well do the switches


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudebroguy*
> 
> Aren't the EC mice made primarily for palm gripping? I'm a claw gripper and I had a deathadder 3g for a while and I didn't care for the shape, and the EC1/2 look to have a similar shape.


I think EC is more like 3.0 than DA. But it feels much rounder. Long time since I used EC1, only got EC2 at the moment so size comparison it's hard fo me to tell. 3.0 to me feels more like a "true" palm grip mouse of these three. Deathadder feels more claw grip shaped than EC as well. Maybe cause of the super uncomfortable right side. Probably the one thing on the DA that keeps me away from it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jogosa*
> 
> Is it worth having the switches replaced to Omrons if previously I've been using Sensei?
> I have yet to replace an LED and ceramic resonator into a crystal one, might as well do the switches


It's preference if you like harder switches or not. I don't like the Huano switches in my EC2 or AM, if I could change to omron I would do it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jogosa*
> 
> Is it worth having the switches replaced to Omrons if previously I've been using Sensei?
> I have yet to replace an LED and ceramic resonator into a crystal one, might as well do the switches


I liked the huano switches better than Omrons, personally. If you can get used to them and you don't have to click anything rapidly, they're pretty nice.


----------



## connectwise

Anyone able to comment on the side button easy of use on the AM vs FK vs Sensei? It seems like that the FK has smaller or different positional side buttons on both sides that may cause issues when actuating it. I play to use all four on each side, as I do on the Sensei.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Anyone able to comment on the side button easy of use on the AM vs FK vs Sensei? It seems like that the FK has smaller or different positional side buttons on both sides that may cause issues when actuating it. I play to use all four on each side, as I do on the Sensei.


You cannot use the Zowie side buttons like a Sensei. You have a choice of left or right hand. One side will be active only.

The FK has a slightly lower side button position than the AM. My AM has stiffer side buttons than the FK. The AM's side buttons stick out (at the bottom) similar to the DeathAdder. The FK buttons don't stick out much. The shape of the buttons of the FK and AM are similar, but the FK has smaller buttons.

The side buttons are harder to use on the FK because of the way the shell is shaped. Accessing the front side button is hard because the shell sticks out more in that area. Pressing the rear side button with the pad of your thumb isn't very easy because the rear button area follows the shape of the mouse to much. I find myself struggling to press the buttons as I would like. I don't rest my thumb on the buttons, I have it slightly on the buttons, just below the button basically. If you rest your thumb on them it wouldn't be difficult to actuate.

I like the AM's buttons more. They allow me to roll my thumb upward to actuate the rear button and press with the tip of my thumb to actuate the front button. I think they are placed to high though. They are also stiffer than I like, I like the EC's light side buttons.


----------



## connectwise

Wouldn't one be able to use mouse button software to activate the side buttons 3 and 4 in addition to the first two?


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1520_20#post_21025152


Thanks again. I tried to push on the top shell on the separation between the two main buttons. Then the noise disappears during a dozen of clicks, then appears again. It's unbearable. What else could I do?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Thanks again. I tried to push on the top shell on the separation between the two main buttons. Then the noise disappears during a dozen of clicks, then appears again. It's unbearable. What else could I do?


The easiest thing is to click near the scroll wheel. I have heard you can use a lubricant on the plastic to stop if from squeaking. You can try to figure out where exactly it is rubbing and file it down some -- not sure if that will work.


----------



## bobsaget

Well thanks for your help but I wasn't able to fix this issue.

I'm going back to my good old M60 mostly because of this noise click problem which is annoying as hell. The shape isn't great for my hand as well. It's too thin and after mid-long gaming session, it hurts. The clicks are also a bit too stiff (though it's a matter of habit rather than of preference). I also prefer the 800 dpi setting on my M60. The 450dpi is not useable imo, and the 1150 is a bit too high.

I'll keep it for a secondary use on my laptop / replacement for my m60 when the latter dies / or maybe at work.


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Wouldn't one be able to use mouse button software to activate the side buttons 3 and 4 in addition to the first two?


no, that is not possible imo. They are the same button "by hardware".

I make a little mod where double the dpi button to the right side front button. But of course you could not use this button by any software.


----------



## connectwise

Well, I've bought the mouse yesterday so I'll try and figure it out.

Thanks though.


----------



## Larson

Hey guys,

i ordered a zowie fk today and i'm wondering if it works flawless on a razer goliathus speed alpha xl?
thx


----------



## Skylit

AM worked fine on the older fragged version.


----------



## kazuyamishima

I had the AM before I used the FK. I never thought the buttons on the side of the FK were harder to use. For both mice I thought the button placement was bang on. I also like the way they feel and the tactile feedback that you get from pressing them. Whether or not the buttons are properly located probably has a lot to do with grip and specific anatomy though.


----------



## resis

I've been using the FK for quite some time for Windows and light gaming (Tomb Raider, Myst, etc.) and really enjoyed it, but then played a fast paced Versus game and got reminded again why the FK is not the most effective weapon for me. It is just not effective (shape, haptic). Still looking for a new mouse.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> No one can provide evidence. We are not scientists.
> 
> When I use the Zowie EC/AM/FK with a low sensitivity (~84cm for a 360) I notice the delay when I am transitioning to targets. When there is three people rushing a site I have to swipe right, then left and back right. During all that the mouse doesn't feel connected to my hand movements when I am using the "450" setting. It doesn't feel like that when I use the "2300" setting.
> 
> If you don't notice anything don't worry about it. You're just not as perceptive.


I did not mean to say " provide evidence or it is BS " I just meant to say I would want to know more about it.

My CS: GO sensitivity settings are windows 6/11, 450 DPI on the FK, 1.75 ingame. I would like to find a way in which I could see this issue. I like the FK, but am not too happy with the rubberized surface material (though more tolerable than most rubberized coatings). If this really is an issue, then it would give me enough reason to opt for another mouse. Until now, I told myself I will stick with it since, except for the coating, I like everything about it.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> I did not mean to say " provide evidence or it is BS " I just meant to say I would want to know more about it.
> 
> My CS: GO sensitivity settings are windows 6/11, 450 DPI on the FK, 1.75 ingame. I would like to find a way in which I could see this issue. I like the FK, but am not too happy with the rubberized surface material (though more tolerable than most rubberized coatings). If this really is an issue, then it would give me enough reason to opt for another mouse. Until now, I told myself I will stick with it since, except for the coating, I like everything about it.


Do you have another mouse to try with? When I was using my EC2 eVo on 450 DPI I felt it was something different, couldn't tell what it was. Didn't thought about it that much and played with it for a while. Then I wanted to try my DA (3.5G) again. DAMN it felt so fast, it was the same cm/360 but felt so much snappier. So for now when I'm using Zowie mice I use the 2300 step and 3/11 in windows. Zowies 450 DPI step is so bad.


----------



## Snakesoul

After using this mouse for a couple of months, i guess i found the perfect mouse shape for me.. It's a shame those switches, they make me game badly.. I'm guessing i'll try to see if i can find someone who knows how to change mouse switches or i'll try to do it, because i really like almost everything from this mouse..


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> After using this mouse for a couple of months, i guess i found the perfect mouse shape for me.. It's a shame those switches, they make me game badly.. I'm guessing i'll try to see if i can find someone who knows how to change mouse switches or i'll try to do it, because i really like almost everything from this mouse..


I want Omron in my AM as well. I can't change them either.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> After using this mouse for a couple of months, i guess i found the perfect mouse shape for me.. It's a shame those switches, they make me game badly.. I'm guessing i'll try to see if i can find someone who knows how to change mouse switches or i'll try to do it, because i really like almost everything from this mouse..


The switches are a little stiffer than the other Zowie mice I have had. However, the shell of the FK is really what is ruining the switch feel.


----------



## MLJS54

Has anyone modded the yellow accents on the FK to another color?


----------



## Makav3li

I had been using my FK at 450 dpi 6/11 windows. I changed to 2300dpi to abvoid this whole non native dpi setting fiasco. I play mostly CS:GO when I'm playing competitively, so I just use raw input and calculated my new in game value for the same ratio I was using before. For normal desktop usage I changed from 6/11 to 3/11 to slow my cursor down to a speed that was similar to my old dpi/windows settings. Will there be any adverse effects from doing this?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I had been using my FK at 450 dpi 6/11 windows. I changed to 2300dpi to abvoid this whole non native dpi setting fiasco. I play mostly CS:GO when I'm playing competitively, so I just use raw input and calculated my new in game value for the same ratio I was using before. For normal desktop usage I changed from 6/11 to 3/11 to slow my cursor down to a speed that was similar to my old dpi/windows settings. Will there be any adverse effects from doing this?


Raw input in CS:GO doesn't work properly. It puts mouse smoothing on or something.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Raw input in CS:GO doesn't work properly. It puts mouse smoothing on or something.


It works fine. The feel is different than using rinput injector. I think it has to do with how the cursor is grabbed.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> After using this mouse for a couple of months, i guess i found the perfect mouse shape for me.. It's a shame those switches, they make me game badly.. I'm guessing i'll try to see if i can find someone who knows how to change mouse switches or i'll try to do it, because i really like almost everything from this mouse..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I want Omron in my AM as well. I can't change them either.


I have opened up my Zowie FK like 3 times now to change the switches. The process is incredibly similar to what I wrote about here:

Swapping Microswitches Guide

It's even easier because this mouse doesn't need a triangle screwdriver to open up. I switched the main buttons and the side buttons to omron D2F-01F's. I also just got rid of the right side buttons to make the mouse lighter since I am not left handed. Mouse is perfect for me. I have been changed mice every few months for a long time. The closest a mouse has been a keeper for me was my CM Storm Spawn and my Zowie EC2 Evo. The EC2 Evo was too big to claw in high-precision situations, and the spawn had an annoyingly thick cord and non-replacable switches (can't go back to even Omron 7n's).

You just have to be careful and practice on some other mice first.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It works fine. The feel is different than using rinput injector. I think it has to do with how the cursor is grabbed.


Most of the players on NiP have raw input turned off, AFAIK, so I would assume that it's doing some sort of smoothing algorithm or something.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Most of the players on NiP have raw input turned off, AFAIK, so I would assume that it's doing some sort of smoothing algorithm or something.


Nope, it just feels different, but it's not worse.
I think skylit explained it in greater detail somewhere around here.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, it just feels different, but it's not worse.
> I think skylit explained it in greater detail somewhere around here.


Interesting. I thought CS:GO specifically had it implemented badly. I guess I'll try it out on raw input then.

My friend had his mouse pixel skipping when he had raw input enabled, though. That was strange.

edit: I tried playing deathmatch with raw input on and off. With it on, it feels like I have have antialiasing on. It's really hard to get headshots.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> edit: I tried playing deathmatch with raw input on and off. With it on, it feels like I have have antialiasing on. It's really hard to get headshots.


Raw input feels different because of how it works. Doesn't matter what game you use raw input with.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Raw input feels different because of how it works. Doesn't matter what game you use raw input with.


Why does it feel laggy? I read something by skylit saying that it is disconnected from the frame rate, but my mouse is running at 500Hz. That shouldn't make any difference.


----------



## trhead

So is direct input less laggy than raw input?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Why does it feel laggy? I read something by skylit saying that it is disconnected from the frame rate, but my mouse is running at 500Hz. That shouldn't make any difference.


Are you getting 500 FPS consistently?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> So is direct input less laggy than raw input?


There is no "lag" using raw input. Direct input is raw input but with joystick support.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Are you getting 500 FPS consistently?


you have a point I guess. I would have thought that at 500hz it wouldn't make a difference though.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

What? Popups what are you insinuating by asking him if he get 500fps consistently?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What? Popups what are you insinuating by asking him if he get 500fps consistently?


That the behavior of WM_mousemove and raw input / direct input creates a different feel. Which doesn't mean that raw input is "laggy" just because it feels different... The feel of fluctuating FPS in vastly different than hardware polling rate. You can ask a bunch of "Pro" players (that don't use raw input) if their sensitivity feels different at each LAN setup.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That the behavior of WM_mousemove and raw input / direct input creates a different feel. Which doesn't mean that raw input is "laggy" just because it feels different... The feel of fluctuating FPS in vastly different than hardware polling rate. You can ask a bunch of "Pro" players (that don't use raw input) if their sensitivity feels different at each LAN setup.


Well, it feels exactly the same as when I turn on certain settings that increase lag. I call that laggy.


----------



## illwill

Kind of off topic but can someone tell me why I get bad input lag when injecting raw input? Higher polling rate makes it worse. I think Skylit explained this a little bit before but basically using RInput makes it much laggier than wm_mousemove for me in this particular game I am playing. It is not a difference in feel because I have no problem using the native raw input in QL and BF4. I'm just trying to figure out how to eliminate the lag that occurs when I am injecting it into this particular Q3 engine game.


----------



## Makav3li

Can someone link the this explanation why using Raw Input in CS:GO is a bad idea? I have never heard of this before.


----------



## boOzy

Could someone tell if the FK can be used with *thumb and pinkie* only? Like a modified fingertip/claw grip.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> Could someone tell if the FK can be used with *thumb and pinkie* only? Like a modified fingertip/claw grip.


As in with three fingers on M1/2/3 buttons?


----------



## boOzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> As in with three fingers on M1/2/3 buttons?


Yeah. Middle finger on mouse wheel.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> Yeah. Middle finger on mouse wheel.


The sides are slanted nicely to help support such grip, yeah. If a bit of weight doesn't bother you, that is.


----------



## Manspider

Does anybody know if Zowie are planning on doing a Full Gloss version? I can't grip their matt mice at all.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> Does anybody know if Zowie are planning on doing a Full Gloss version? I can't grip their matt mice at all.


I'm the same. Can't grip any matte mice bar XAI. I emailed them a few weeks back......naturally they still haven't got back to me. Will post back if I hear anything. Luckily the AM gloss stick to my hand like glue and is very comfy. I bought a FK hoping its shape would mean it would be easy to grip even with matte. but no luck. Like playing with a wet bar of soap LOL


----------



## defury

How hard is it to get used to the 1150 step on this if you are used to 800 dpi?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> How hard is it to get used to the 1150 step on this if you are used to 800 dpi?


What games do you play and at what sensitivity?

Most people don't actually use 450 or 800 CPI in FPS games. Most have sensitivities higher than 1.


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What games do you play and at what sensitivity?
> 
> Most people don't actually use 450 or 800 CPI in FPS games. Most have sensitivities higher than 1.


WoW, Dota 2, Sc2, CS:GO and desktop usage. I never actually mess with sensitivity in games, at least not yet.

*edit* I also heard that 1150 wasn't native and had issues, any basis to this?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> WoW, Dota 2, Sc2, CS:GO and desktop usage. I never actually mess with sensitivity in games, at least not yet.
> 
> *edit* I also heard that 1150 wasn't native and had issues, any basis to this?


I can use the 1150 setting even though I prefer something closer to 600. I adapted after an hour. However, many people may not be able to adapt with 2D games.

The 1150 setting is halved by the MCU from the 2300 setting. So it isn't "native" to the sensor. It has half the response of the 2300 setting.


----------



## defury

Does it cause much issues or does the mouse still work great at 1150?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> Does it cause much issues or does the mouse still work great at 1150?


It works fine using the 1150 setting, the same cannot be said about the 450 setting. As I mentioned, the 1150 setting is half as responsive, which isn't a big deal.


----------



## MLJS54

Despite my reluctance to ever switch from 400-500 DPI, I did run the FK at 1150 all weekend and for whatever reason my twitch bow shots in Darkfall and my side to side melee 360s were smoother and more controlled

Not sure if placebo OR...

EDIT - I also set Windows to 3/11


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Despite my reluctance to ever switch from 400-500 DPI, I did run the FK at 1150 all weekend and for whatever reason my twitch bow shots in Darkfall and my side to side melee 360s were smoother and more controlled
> 
> *Not sure if placebo* OR...
> 
> EDIT - I also set Windows to 3/11


Maybe it is, maybe not.

The 450 setting has high latency and irregular count drops. The 1150 setting is much more reasonable with the latency and drops every other count (making it smoother).


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe it is, maybe not.
> 
> The 450 setting has high latency and irregular count drops. The 1150 setting is much more reasonable with the latency and drops ever other count (making it smoother).


Yea, I think I'm just going to stick with it. My only issue is the in-game menu and DPI... I had to drop to 3/11 because 1150 is way too high for me for dragging items around. How much is 3/11 hurting me?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Yea, I think I'm just going to stick with it. My only issue is the in-game menu and DPI... I had to drop to 3/11 because 1150 is way too high for me for dragging items around. How much is 3/11 hurting me?


Doesn't hurt at all. 1,2,3,4 and 6/11 are all fine.


----------



## MLJS54

Messed around with a G400s yesterday. Packaged up and returned this morning. FK4lyfe bros.


----------



## RentoN

Is there any way to make it so that the windows mouse settings are aplied to every game?
3/11 and 2300DPI works fine for me, but some games ignore the windows settings and don't seem to have a option to disable raw input or whatever.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> Is there any way to make it so that the windows mouse settings are aplied to every game?
> 3/11 and 2300DPI works fine for me, but some games ignore the windows settings and don't seem to have a option to disable raw input or whatever.


Nope, needs to be in the game.


----------



## connectwise

This isn't the complete mice for me.

- not wide enough for my thumb and ring fingers to actuate buttons on both sides without using the tip of the fingers instead the undersides of the fingers

- no top sided dpi switch to allow dpi switch on the fly without flipping it upside down

But I already knew that you couldn't use both side buttons, and that there's no dpi switcher on top.

Fantastic mouse. I love so much things about it. But if I have to keep my old sensei to play the games I want and use FK to play other games, I should have bought an ergonomic mice led instead of another ambi since I won't be using the right side mouse buttons.

By god, I love how the mouse buttons feel.


----------



## connectwise

haha had it for less than a day and it's already started to double click.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> haha had it for less than a day and it's already started to double click.


Doubt that. Likely the shell flaw...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> haha had it for less than a day and it's already started to double click.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Doubt that. Likely the shell flaw...


Mine had double clicking after a few months, sent it to Zowie and should get my replacement this week. Double clicking can happen with any switch really, even from the get go, just need bad luck.


----------



## jogosa

Anyone have Zowie FK paint tests @2300dpi 1000Hz? Just upgraded internal of my FK, wanna check if it's got less jitter now.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jogosa*
> 
> Anyone have Zowie FK paint tests @2300dpi 1000Hz? Just upgraded internal of my FK, wanna check if it's got less jitter now.


That is very cool. What did you do?


Accurately controlling 2300 CPI (actually more like 2430) is a very hard thing to do.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jogosa*
> 
> Anyone have Zowie FK paint tests @2300dpi 1000Hz? Just upgraded internal of my FK, wanna check if it's got less jitter now.


Hmm, looks nice. Please tell us which upgrades you did, I'll see if I can be arsed to dig up an EC1 myself to test.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> Lol 2300 dpi


You are dumb.

As you can see the jitter is moderate even on 2300 so it doesn't affect your accuracy much when you reduce your sensitivity back to sane levels.


----------



## jogosa

Didn't do much, modding costed me like 4 bucks:

Changed 24MHz ceramic resonator into a crystal one I had lying around and added 12pF load caps (requrement for crystal)
Then i changed all those electrolytic caps into ceramic ones (changed all to 10uF since it doesn't make that much of a difference).
I also swapped my LED into a yellow one and LED resistor from 82 into 47 for the new LED (not sure if that affects performance).


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jogosa*
> 
> Didn't do much, modding costed me like 4 bucks:
> 
> Changed 24MHz ceramic resonator into a crystal one I had lying around and added 12pF load caps (requrement for crystal)
> Then i changed all those electrolytic caps into ceramic ones (changed all to 10uF since it doesn't make that much of a difference).
> I also swapped my LED into a yellow one and LED resistor from 82 into 47 for the new LED (not sure if that affects performance).


Neat. Dunno if those affect tracking, but nice job anyway


----------



## Ino.

Neither my FK nor my AM jitter at all at 2300 dpi on Qck Heavy.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Neither my FK nor my AM jitter at all at 2300 dpi on Qck Heavy.


Same here. It is human error that causes "jittery" movements with high CPI.


----------



## test user

EC1 evo on QCK Heavy

The lower right curves are there for no reason


----------



## Imprecision

Make sure you use 1:1 or 100% zoom when jitter testing. Higher zoom levels introduce artificial smoothing at the software level.

Lower levels do the opposite.


----------



## jogosa

Just a wee bit of a difference. Oh well..


----------



## jogosa

Though I used a paper surface, wish had my 9HD at the desk..


----------



## pjBSOD

Thread cleaned, please stay on topic and cut the arguments. Thanks!


----------



## tiger style

I bought the Artisan Hien Red soft to use with my FK after it's been recommended here.

Using 2300dpi and 1000hz, making slow diagonal movements it's jittery and skips quite a bit. It feels like there's dust or debris on the pad.

I love the FK and I like the Hien but don't think they are a good combo.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tiger style*
> 
> I bought the Artisan Hien Red soft to use with my FK after it's been recommended here.
> 
> Using 2300dpi and 1000hz, making slow diagonal movements it's jittery and skips quite a bit. It feels like there's dust or debris on the pad.
> 
> I love the FK and I like the Hien but don't think they are a good combo.


You must be new to Zowie mice. They are using a magnifying lens to lower LOD. This lens causes jittery tracking when you move super slow on cloth pads. I have a different textured cloth pad and the tracking looks like the Hien pad. When I try a plastic pad the tracking smooths out noticeably. So cloth mouse pads will be a little jittery with the magnifying lens, which makes complete sense. There could be other pads out there with a finer weave to increase precision with the Zowie mice; I doubt that and they will likely be black or have some graphics.

Can you control 2300+ CPI with very small movements? I cannot... I think I am pretty good at controlling a mouse.

Or your mouse can be like this:


----------



## tiger style

I've been using the EC2 EVO on a Puretrak Stealth for the last couple of years and it's been fine. I've dumped it in the cupboard so haven't tested it on the Hien.

I like the Hien, it has a similar glide as the Goliathus Control but I'm hoping it doesn't become faster the more I use it.

The FK seems nice and stable on the Stealth (but it's too smooth for me) not so much on the Hien.

500hz feels slightly better, not much though.


----------



## pirron

Is it possible to use different DPI values for horizontal and vertical axis?
I have a mouse pad: Razer Goliathus control edition and it's huge. It's almost 1m wide but not that high. I need lower horizontal DPI then vertical and wondered if software for this mice allows seperate values for each.
Couldn't find the answer googling.


----------



## CeeSA

there is no software for Zowie mice.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pirron*
> 
> Is it possible to use different DPI values for horizontal and vertical axis?
> I have a mouse pad: Razer Goliathus control edition and it's huge. It's almost 1m wide but not that high. I need lower horizontal DPI then vertical and wondered if software for this mice allows seperate values for each.
> Couldn't find the answer googling.


This mouse is plug and play.There is no software. Also, I really question whether having seperate horizontal and vertical DPI is a good idea. Seems like you are just making things unnecessarily complicated, and I can not imagine even trying it after years and years of muscle-memory where mouse-movement in any direction results in a similar distance moved by the cursor. You don't have to use the entire area provided by your mousepad...


----------



## Victor_Mizer

I just ordered myself the FK to replace my DA which I had to RMA for a 2nd time. I hope i like this mouse, I'm guessing from reading posts 2300dpi/1000hz is the best to use? Also has anyone tried the FK on a aluminium mouse pad like the Manticor or know if it has any issues with them?


----------



## connectwise

That's what people say about it.

Some say double click
Some say uneven and need double mouse feet
Some dislike the distinctive clicks
Some dislike the shape after long gaming sessions
Some say it still have smoothing lag


----------



## Victor_Mizer

I am really liking the mouse so far. I did a few rounds of BF4 with 2300/1000 and 450/500. Seems pretty solid on both settings, 2300 just seems a little too fast for me in menu's but I could use it if I really should be. It's working great on my aluminium manticor mouse pad. The size is a little small, but the shape feels really good.


----------



## detto87

As the lag on the FK on the lower DPI steps (like 450) doesn't result from applying mouse smoothing (afaik), what is causing it?

And is the lag on the FK 450 step better or worse than the lag on the 4000 DPI 3090 mice?


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Or your mouse can be like this:


What am I looking at?


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> I am really liking the mouse so far. I did a few rounds of BF4 with 2300/1000 and 450/500. Seems pretty solid on both settings, 2300 just seems a little too fast for me in menu's but I could use it if I really should be. It's working great on my aluminium manticor mouse pad. The size is a little small, but the shape feels really good.


Tanx god that Dice added vehicle sensitivity in addition to regular, otherwise the FK is unusable in BF4. Supposedly 2300/100 + low windows mouse speed = best performance.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> As the lag on the FK on the lower DPI steps (like 450) doesn't result from applying mouse smoothing (afaik), what is causing it?
> 
> And is the lag on the FK 450 step better or worse than the lag on the 4000 DPI 3090 mice?


Much worse imo.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

With the 2300 setting, I need to put BF4 sensitivity at 0%, lol. I am still using raw input, I'm not sure if it will affect performance if I disable it?


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> With the 2300 setting, I need to put BF4 sensitivity at 0%, lol. I am still using raw input, I'm not sure if it will affect performance if I disable it?


BF4 sensitivity can actually go even lower than 0% if you set it in .ini. Using the mouse-sensitivity.com calculator can help with that!


----------



## RentoN

Is there any way to force a game to use (not ignore) the windows pointer speed?
In my main game 2300 is way to fast, even with ingame sens as low as possible


----------



## maxskater

So I've had my FK for almost 6 months now and so far so good. It's been under heavy use most of the time and is still as new. I didn't have a single problem with scroll ghosting, double clicking etc. I'd recommend this mouse to anyone. I'm glad I don't have to buy another MS IMO from China.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> Is there any way to force a game to use (not ignore) the windows pointer speed?
> In my main game 2300 is way to fast, even with ingame sens as low as possible


What's your main game? And what is your desired cm/360?


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> What's your main game? And what is your desired cm/360?


My main game is Blacklight: Retribution. You may never have heard about it








Desired cm/360 would be around 30cm.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> My main game is Blacklight: Retribution. You may never have heard about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desired cm/360 would be around 30cm.


I played BL:Retribution a bit, I had no trouble setting my mouse to 60cm/360









Try this
Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\blacklightretribution\Blacklight Retribution\Live\FoxGame\Config\PCConsole\Cooked\PCConsole-FoxInput.ini (at least that's my path as I got it on Steam)

Find MouseSensitivity and set

MouseSensitivity=2.42

that should be 30cm/360 at 2300 dpi.

There were a few tweaks to disable the in-game accel too, but I don't remember them.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I played BL:Retribution a bit, I had no trouble setting my mouse to 60cm/360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this
> Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\blacklightretribution\Blacklight Retribution\Live\FoxGame\Config\PCConsole\Cooked\PCConsole-FoxInput.ini (at least that's my path as I got it on Steam)
> 
> Find MouseSensitivity and set
> 
> MouseSensitivity=2.42
> 
> that should be 30cm/360 at 2300 dpi.
> 
> There were a few tweaks to disable the in-game accel too, but I don't remember them.


Wow thats awesome!
How did you figure this number out? Whats the formular so I can maybe fine tune it?

The only problem with this is that the ingame setting only goes to 0 and whenever I change any ingame settings the mouse speed goes back to super fast, even though I made the .ini file read only.

Oh and could you maybe try to think of that accel fix?
Or give me a hint how I might figure it out myself?
Sounds pretty cool, and unfortunately the BLR community doesn't bother much with stuff like this.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> Wow thats awesome!
> How did you figure this number out? Whats the formular so I can maybe fine tune it?
> 
> The only problem with this is that the ingame setting only goes to 0 and whenever I change any ingame settings the mouse speed goes back to super fast, even though I made the .ini file read only.
> 
> Oh and could you maybe try to think of that accel fix?
> Or give me a hint how I might figure it out myself?
> Sounds pretty cool, and unfortunately the BLR community doesn't bother much with stuff like this.


www.mouse-sensitivity.com

It can calculate sens for many games. I think for the accel the only thing was the bMouseSmoothing=False, it's in the same ini file.

I didn't play BLR that much to investigate further, but many UT3 tricks should apply I guess.


----------



## Blutch

Does anyone know how long it takes for ZowieGear.Dk to respond? (The webshop attached to the zowie site) aka WebDanes, I have been waiting for like 5 days now, so just wondering if their support is functioning.

I want to rma my ec2 and change it for an FK.. 11 days left for the return policy

Edit: solved 5 days later


----------



## Ino.

There's a new revision of the FK out! It now has the same "built in tape trick" as the EC CL and also an IR-LED.
I got mine from an RMA directly from Zowie, so stores might still have the old one.

Will post a pic later.


----------



## Atavax

i wonder if like new ec evo black and whites will have this too and the only real difference of the cl version is the scroll wheel and grip.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There's a new revision of the FK out! It now has the same "built in tape trick" as the EC CL and also an IR-LED.
> I got mine from an RMA directly from Zowie, so stores might still have the old one.
> 
> Will post a pic later.


Can you confirm it is from this shop: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/mice-512c1.html ?
Zowie+camade too? thank you

Also what is the built in tape trick? XD


----------



## backie

Isn't it to stop dust buildup on the lens?


----------



## Atavax

the tape trick lowers the distance you have to lift your mouse off of the surface for it to stop registering movement. Zowies already had some of the lowest lift off distances, now they're even lower...


----------



## detto87

I wonder if the new iteration of the FK (if there really is one) won't drags that much anymore on soft cloth pads. The feet are just too thin to compensate for applying pressure on the mouse in a hectic situation. The FK I have just gets too much sunken into the pad and moves slower on it when applying pressure to it.


----------



## Ino.

http://imgur.com/YA3QyXu


There it is.

Never had trouble with it sinking in, but I don't put much pressure on my mice.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There it is.
> 
> Never had trouble with it sinking in, but I don't put much pressure on my mice.


That's the one I got from Amazon on Friday.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/YA3QyXu
> 
> 
> There it is.
> 
> Never had trouble with it sinking in, but I don't put much pressure on my mice.


did you get it from: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/mice-512c1.html ?

Please im ordering soon


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> did you get it from: http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/mice-512c1.html ?
> 
> Please im ordering soon


Nope, I originally bought it from a German retailer, but had to RMA due to double clicking issues. So I had to send it to Zowies RMA center in Portugal. That's where they've sent me this from.

But I'd guess that the Zowieshop already has the new batch. If not it doesn't really matter, older version was fine too.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, I originally bought it from a German retailer, but had to RMA due to double clicking issues. So I had to send it to Zowies RMA center in Portugal. That's where they've sent me this from.
> 
> But I'd guess that the Zowieshop already has the new batch. If not it doesn't really matter, older version was fine too.


Thats true







Maybe ill wait for the zowieshop to go out of stock and than order it









OCD though ;(


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> the tape trick lowers the distance you have to lift your mouse off of the surface for it to stop registering movement. Zowies already had some of the lowest lift off distances, now they're even lower...


but IR-LED makes LOD higher usually, so this could be the countermeasure.
i wonder why they did this anyways.


----------



## blainemono

Do you see any other differences? Is the lift off even lower than it was before (it was too low before it would be a crazy move to make it even lower imo), is the shape exactly the same, are the feet too thin as the original version?


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> Do you see any other differences? Is the lift off even lower than it was before (it was too low before it would be a crazy move to make it even lower imo), is the shape exactly the same, are the feet too thin as the original version?


what bothers you about the low lod? i love it actually, just curious


----------



## connectwise

Please stop teasing and tell us about ^ differences


----------



## Ino.

LOD is lower than 1cd.

I like.


----------



## popups

Looks like someone was reading something and thought it was good to do this. I would agree it is a good idea if they went about it differently. They should change the lens design and increase the distance of the LED from the eye.

Lower than 1.2mm LOD if not acceptable to 98% (made up number) of users. Especially, if they mouse feet are still to thin. I HATE IT.

I always have had issue with Zowie mice scraping my cloth pads. You can see dye marks on the bottom of my Zowie mice. I palm grip and have my hand resting on the mouse, so there is more pressure on the mouse than a claw or finger tip user. This isn't an issue for hard surfaces like plastic or tables.

The IR LED is likely being used because there wouldn't be enough light making it to the surface with that obstruction on the bottom shell. I don't like an IR LED because I rather have the wavelength the sensor was designed for, this would make red mouse pads more useful with Zowie mice. Using the IR LED is likely making the LOD lower now, along with the shell part, because the lens is the same...

Is the lens the same as the earlier Zowie mice? Does it still magnify? Is the eye of the lens the same size as earlier Zowie mice? This is important to know...

With this "new" FK is the mold flaw fixed? One of the worse things about the FK is this flaw; it ruins the buttons, they are harder to press and inconsistent. It causes this squeaking noise too. Only way to fix it is to sand the top piece and change out the switches.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blainemono*
> 
> Do you see any other differences? Is the lift off even lower than it was before (it was too low before it would be a crazy move to make it even lower imo), is the shape exactly the same, are the feet too thin as the original version?


for evo CL which should be the same sensorwise its like this: "using it on a black qck, the non-cl seems to track normal when put on one CD at front and one at the back.
tracking with CL is already very limited in this setup, only some micrometers higher and it would completly stop tracking."


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't like an IR LED because I rather have the wavelength the sensor was designed for...


in the A3090 datasheet a graph shows the wavelenght from 600-700nm has the highest "relative responsiveness".
the first red LED i found has 622nm, while an IR-LED i found has 875nm.

the graph would show the red-LED at "1"(highest relative responsiveness) and the IR-LED only at "0.4". LOL


----------



## TriviumKM

Opened an RMA ticket with Zowie to replace my FK 4 days ago and have yet to receive a reply.

To people who have RMA'd through Zowie before: did they take long to contact you back as well, or was it immediate?

Edit: Zowie contacted me via email 2 hours after i posted this


----------



## detto87

So basically even lower lift off and that's it?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Opened an RMA ticket with Zowie to replace my FK 4 days ago and have yet to receive a reply.
> 
> To people who have RMA'd through Zowie before: did they take long to contact you back as well, or was it immediate?
> 
> Edit: Zowie contacted me via email 2 hours after i posted this


You're lucky for both my RMA's zowie never responded.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Looks like someone was reading something and thought it was good to do this. I would agree it is a good idea if they went about it differently. They should change the lens design and increase the distance of the LED from the eye.
> 
> Lower than 1.2mm LOD if not acceptable to 98% (made up number) of users. Especially, if they mouse feet are still to thin. I HATE IT.
> 
> I always have had issue with Zowie mice scraping my cloth pads. You can see dye marks on the bottom of my Zowie mice. I palm grip and have my hand resting on the mouse, so there is more pressure on the mouse than a claw or finger tip user. This isn't an issue for hard surfaces like plastic or tables.
> 
> The IR LED is likely being used because there wouldn't be enough light making it to the surface with that obstruction on the bottom shell. I don't like an IR LED because I rather have the wavelength the sensor was designed for, this would make red mouse pads more useful with Zowie mice. Using the IR LED is likely making the LOD lower now, along with the shell part, because the lens is the same...
> 
> Is the lens the same as the earlier Zowie mice? Does it still magnify? Is the eye of the lens the same size as earlier Zowie mice? This is important to know...
> 
> With this "new" FK is the mold flaw fixed? One of the worse things about the FK is this flaw; it ruins the buttons, they are harder to press and inconsistent. It causes this squeaking noise too. Only way to fix it is to sand the top piece and change out the switches.


I have no trouble with the new FK so far, performance seems to be roughly the same as before, even a bit higher max tracking speeds.

I love the low LOD, and I don't see how this could be a problem (as long as it works perfectly while on the surface).

Doesn't scrape my Qck Heavy, but then none of my Zowies so far did.

Lens seems to be the same.

And that mold flaw really is a non issue for me, no part of my hand touches the top shell where the buttons come together, so there's no pressure there. So there are no squeaky buttons or anything for me.


----------



## thuNDa

just an update regarding IR-LED and build-in "tape-trick" with new zowie mice.

IR-LED doesn't increase LOD here, and so build-in "tape-trick" doesn't lower it here either.
tested it while i was modding my evo-CL with avago-lens(instead of kingsis-lens), which is not done yet tho.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> just an update regarding IR-LED and build-in "tape-trick" with new zowie mice.
> 
> IR-LED doesn't increase LOD here, and so build-in "tape-trick" doesn't lower it here either.
> tested it while i was modding my evo-CL with avago-lens(instead of kingsis-lens), which is not done yet tho.


what does the new fk model do than?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> what does the new fk model do than?


it's the same with new FK, which uses IR-LED and different bottomshell now aswell.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> it's the same with new FK, which uses IR-LED and different bottomshell now aswell.


What does it do for the performance though?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> What does it do for the performance though?


in theory red-LED is better for A3090 sensors, but i can't confirm a difference in feel or in enotus mouse test between old zowie mice(ec evo) and new zowie mice(ec evo CL).


----------



## Makav3li

Can you test the new revision FK and give us some specs?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> in theory red-LED is better for A3090 sensors, but i can't confirm a difference in feel or in enotus mouse test between old zowie mice(ec evo) and new zowie mice(ec evo CL).


Does the ec evo cl use ir-led ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Does the ec evo cl use ir-led ?


Yes

Also no difference in performance.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes
> 
> Also no difference in performance.


Are they using the custom kingsis lens ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Are they using the custom kingsis lens ?


Also yes


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Also yes


+rep for fast responses.
What's the point in degrading the sensor quality and surface compatibility ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> +rep for fast responses.
> What's the point in degrading the sensor quality and surface compatibility ?


Only Zowie knows the answer to that








Maybe having no red light showing is more hipster or smth.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> +rep for fast responses.
> What's the point in degrading the sensor quality and surface compatibility ?


FWIW my FK with red LED doesn't track on my desk while my EC1 eVo CL with IR LED does. Doesn't matter to me as I always use a pad, but seems relevant to surface compatibility.


----------



## backie

I don't think they'd change it to IR if it was worse


----------



## bvazx

Ok, guys. What can I say?
I can say, that use in Zowie FK v1 IR-Led instead Red-Led its ***** cool!!!
The maximum control speed of this greatest mouse didn't suit me!!!
I removed additional prism on lens...
On my SS QsK+ with Red-Led, 1150 dpi and 500 Hz maximum control speed was ~2,7 m/s...
I replaced Red-Led (HLMP-EG3E) on IR-Led (GNL-5013IRAB-1)...
And now I have maximum control speed ~3.40 m/s on my SS QsK+ with 1150 dpi and 500 Hz!
For 450 dpi and 500 Hz It's ~3.80 m/s, maximum speed ~4.3 m/s.

LOD is ~1 CD!

Some tests...


----------



## vss vintorez

I remembered doing this to a deathadder but I put a RED led inside and the tracking rates were almost the same, maybe at the same time you're screwing other things.
At 2300dpi it seems the same tracking speeds, so maybe the other results were "not real" and you just increased the malfunction speed and not the maximun perfect speed.

edit: I would like Ino to confirm this with his original zowie mouse.
Ino: I think you're wrong about the lens being the same, I think they put the original lens, the IR-LED and tape fixed with the shell.

edit2:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1432003/zowie-announce-ec-evo-cl-series/150#post_21358382

The tracking rates lowered a bit.


----------



## bvazx

Look at USB polling-rate for 2300 dpi.
It's 500 Hz. Not 1000 Hz.
I have written about the maximum control speed, not about the malfunction speed.
On the picture for 450 dpi the malfunction speed is 4.28 m/s. Look at this (tests).
According to my observations the maximum control speed for Zowie FK strongly depends on mousepad which is used.
For example, the results of my Zowie FK after modification when is used mousepad "CM Storm CSX Battle Pad DP" is a bit higher then I use SS QsK+.
CM Storm CSX Battle Pad DP has more clear small figure than SS QcK+.
I think for Zowie FK is better suited mousepads with clear small figure.
Also I think that the characteristics of IR-Led was influenced to the result that I got.

I am sure that Zowie FK with IR-Led works much better then with Red-Led.


----------



## vss vintorez

At none test the mouse pass the 4m/s, just yours and I think it could be that you moved it so fast that you got a fake result but it's not real.
The IR-led is better at certain surfaces but the sensor has to be mapped to that configuration in order to work well, the red led should give a more range of compatibility.

But If this is just a miracle;
Try to move it at different angles or lifting and moving it in different angles.
I may mod my ec evo if this actually gives this results, your mod shows better results than the update from zowie







.


----------



## bvazx

I wrote that the mcs for 450 dpi for my mouse is ~3.80 m/s.
As you wish... The malfunction speed for SS QcK+...




I moved the mouse in different directions... Enough?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I wrote that the mcs for 450 dpi for my mouse is ~3.80 m/s.
> As you wish... The malfunction speed for SS QcK+...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I moved the mouse in different directions... Enough?


You can fool Enotus into giving a really high reading accidentally. I don't think there's any good way to test max tracking speed other than subjective analysis.


----------



## bvazx

My subjective analysis says me that my mouse with IR-Led works much better, than with Red-Led.
Ok, guys. I gave you information for thinking. All in your hands.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> My subjective analysis says me that my mouse with IR-Led works much better, than with Red-Led.
> Ok, guys. I gave you information for thinking. All in your hands.


Can you still make the mouse malfunction by moving it too fast? that was always my biggest complaint about this mouse.


----------



## bvazx

I can...



But now I noticed that the malfunction speed is higher when I moved mouse up and down.
I repeat that the mcs for my mouse for 450 dpi is ~3.80 m/s. My subjective feeling.

I'd like to see someone who's modified this mouse using IR-Led GNL-5013IRAB-1, does tests the mouse and gives results to us.
May be the case in wavelength...


----------



## vss vintorez

How much higher do you feel approx ?
Don't you feel the tracking weird or laggy ? Can you feel the laggyness of the savu for example ? (My da red led felt laggy after changing the led, that's why i'm asking).


----------



## bvazx

First of all, i'm not extremely picky, and i don't have Savu.
I had/have Xai, Sensei, Kana, G400, Naos 5000, Spawn, Xornet, DA... Try Rival (dislike)... But...
I really enjoy with my FK now. Now I use full potential of it.
I play in CSGO and use sensitivity 0.587, 1150 dpi and 500 Hz. I love this mouse.








I don't see any laggs.

P.S.: I did all very carefully when I was removing prism from lens and replacing LED!!!
If you break your Zowie FK I am not responsible for that.


----------



## manicmonkey

can any omrons be fitted into the fk? My right click has developed the double click problem and I cant get an RMA as I don't have proof of purchase. Can I just open up a G400/deathadder and use those?


----------



## maxskater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> can any omrons be fitted into the fk? My right click has developed the double click problem and I cant get an RMA as I don't have proof of purchase. Can I just open up a G400/deathadder and use those?


There's a post by Diogenes5 about changing them to Omrons http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/730#post_20170217 Not sure what switches do these mice have, but you might want to open them up and see if they are the same.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> can any omrons be fitted into the fk? My right click has developed the double click problem and I cant get an RMA as I don't have proof of purchase. Can I just open up a G400/deathadder and use those?


you can just do so, if you manage to desolder the switches from your old mice without destroying them, which is not granted.

to get the old huanos out is not even easy when you plan to destroy them anyways, because they are not only soldered, but also glued in the holes. (thank you for that zowie







)


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> you can just do so, if you manage to desolder the switches from your old mice without destroying them, which is not granted.
> 
> to get the old huanos out is not even easy when you plan to destroy them anyways, because they are not only soldered, but also glued in the holes. (thank you for that zowie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I learned that hard way when the switch wouldn't come off when I desoldered it. Both L and R switch positions are ruined since the metal ring was destroyed that makes the switches function. I contacted Zowie to get an RMA but they want me to send the mouse to them, which would be a bad idea on my part. Hopefully they change their minds







.


----------



## ich1ban

That was how i ruined my first zowie AM, the metal ring was destroyed.

Since then I've leant the easiest way to desolder the switches off is to apply a mass amount of solder onto all the pins and have it melt into a huge giant blob then pump it all off in 1 go and not one-by-one.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> That was how i ruined my first zowie AM, the metal ring was destroyed.
> 
> Since then I've leant the easiest way to desolder the switches off is to apply a mass amount of solder onto all the pins and have it melt into a huge giant blob then pump it all off in 1 go and not one-by-one.


so you say, the switch was free after using the desolder pump on that "blob"?

gotta try!









you can repair the AM for sure, if it was the metalring of the right mouseswitch which came of.
pin 1 and 3 are GND and can be repaired quite easily, it's only important to have one pinhole remaing unharmed, so that the switch get stability when soldered in.


----------



## Blutch

im just wondering where i can buy the new version :S, preferably with the mouse bungee too


----------



## Jonny321321

Apologies to change the subject slightly, but does anyone use this mouse with a Qck+?

I want a cloth pad that offers decent control and am considering purchasing this one.

Anyone have any experience they're willing to share?


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonny321321*
> 
> Apologies to change the subject slightly, but does anyone use this mouse with a Qck+?
> 
> I want a cloth pad that offers decent control and am considering purchasing this one.
> 
> Anyone have any experience they're willing to share?


I use it with a Qck heavy and it works well. I quite like the balance of smooth glide and control on this mousepad, and there are no issues with the sensor. Apparently some Zowie mice have some issues on multi-colored mousepads (lower max tracking speed) so if you do go for the Qck+ go for the regular black version of it.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonny321321*
> 
> Apologies to change the subject slightly, but does anyone use this mouse with a Qck+?
> 
> I want a cloth pad that offers decent control and am considering purchasing this one.
> 
> Anyone have any experience they're willing to share?


I used a qck+ previously, my second favourite mouse mate after the hayate


----------



## Jonny321321

Just ordered a black Qck+.

Cheers!


----------



## esoterikk

Does anyone know how to do the mouse calculations? I am used to 800 DPI but just got my FK and want to keep the in game sens close to that. I am currently using 1150 and 5/11 windows but I need to know how to figure it out for my games.

tl;dr want 1150 to feel like 800 in game.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esoterikk*
> 
> Does anyone know how to do the mouse calculations? I am used to 800 DPI but just got my FK and want to keep the in game sens close to that. I am currently using 1150 and 5/11 windows but I need to know how to figure it out for my games.
> 
> tl;dr want 1150 to feel like 800 in game.


http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm


----------



## Jonny321321

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esoterikk*
> 
> Does anyone know how to do the mouse calculations? I am used to 800 DPI but just got my FK and want to keep the in game sens close to that. I am currently using 1150 and 5/11 windows but I need to know how to figure it out for my games.
> 
> tl;dr want 1150 to feel like 800 in game.


http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com

Select your game and put your old DPI (800), FOV etc, then select the same game under 'new game' and set the DPI as the new one (1150).


----------



## esoterikk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonny321321*
> 
> http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com
> 
> Select your game and put your old DPI (800), FOV etc, then select the same game under 'new game' and set the DPI as the new one (1150).


Seems to be missing Sc2 and Dota 2 which are the mains things I play.
Quote:


> http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm


I'm not sure how to properly use this. How do I know what to input for sensitivity after I get the numbers on the bottom?

*edit* it appears Dota might use windows sensitivity?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esoterikk*
> 
> Seems to be missing Sc2 and Dota 2 which are the mains things I play.
> I'm not sure how to properly use this. How do I know what to input for sensitivity after I get the numbers on the bottom?
> 
> *edit* it appears Dota might use windows sensitivity?


That site is only for FPS games afaik. 2D games use windows pointer speed, so you can't fine tune like that.


----------



## Thyr4n

I dont know if Zowie has a quality assurance but if so, they have a lazy job.

Or they think FK means ******* Kwuality













I had 4 FKs and all have rust on the jack. I orded the first modell weeks ago but this wasnt a exception and until now nothing chaged.

This is only on the FK. The jack of my EVO CL is normal...
I cannot understand how companies do request 60 € for such mud.


----------



## thuNDa

if you import the images here this way, we can only see the thumbnails.


----------



## Thyr4n

Did a update.


----------



## vss vintorez

And the conector is not straight, it's worse than razer.


----------



## detto87

A little bit too picky if you ask me.


----------



## Snakesoul

So i have been using this mouse for some time now, and for some reason the switches seem to be easier to press, so my question is, is it possible these switches have to "break" after some usage and become softer?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> So i have been using this mouse for some time now, and for some reason the switches seem to be easier to press, so my question is, is it possible these switches have to "break" after some usage and become softer?


I think you just get used to them. Have you tried using a mouse with soft clicks and then going back?


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi Ino., I've been using G400 as my main mouse and Zowie FK as my backup, I haven't give up on zowie, because i like the shape and weight a lot, so I'm trading them from time to time and I feel for some reason the switches are softer than they were, when I purchased it... I'm quite sure it's not placebo, but also not sure if goes softer after some time clicking the buttons...
I don't know how to explain it better but the only thing I can think of to compare it, it's mouse feet (when new most of them don't glide like after some use)... What do you think of my thoughts?


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I think you just get used to them. Have you tried using a mouse with soft clicks and then going back?


I also think this is possibly the case here. I had the same experience with the huanos. Also had a similar experience with keyboard switches.


----------



## Snakesoul

Thanks for the input, but I think it's not the case, I haven't played with this mouse for a long time, I had it in my desk but didn't touch it while gaming, made some occasional clicking to compare it to G400. I think after some clicking the buttons got weak but continued crisp
I was even thinking about selling it, but and since I'm a stubborn as a mule I gave it another try and since they're easier to press, I think I'm holding it for a bit more tests...


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for the input, but I think it's not the case, I haven't played with this mouse for a long time, I had it in my desk but didn't touch it while gaming, made some occasional clicking to compare it to G400. I think after some clicking the buttons got weak but continued crisp
> I was even thinking about selling it, but and since I'm a stubborn as a mule I gave it another try and since they're easier to press, I think I'm holding it for a bit more tests...


Odd.

When I try my other mice to compare, the clicks of the huanos are still much heavier in comparison. Feels like the difference is as big as when I bought it, which was pretty much at release. Since then I have probably played several hundreds of hours of Counter Strike, Dota and Battlefield.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for the input, but I think it's not the case, I haven't played with this mouse for a long time, I had it in my desk but didn't touch it while gaming, made some occasional clicking to compare it to G400. I think after some clicking the buttons got weak but continued crisp
> I was even thinking about selling it, but and since I'm a stubborn as a mule I gave it another try and since they're easier to press, I think I'm holding it for a bit more tests...


Try playing diablo for a few hours with it, then see how stiff you think they are...


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Odd.
> 
> When I try my other mice to compare, the clicks of the huanos are still much heavier in comparison. Feels like the difference is as big as when I bought it, which was pretty much at release. Since then I have probably played several hundreds of hours of Counter Strike, Dota and Battlefield.


Hi kazuyamishima, thanks for your reply.
Well there's a big difference between both switches, zowie fk vs G400 or DABE (mices i own and i can compare), but what i'm trying to figure out is if it's possible, zowie's switches with some use can become softer. I don't think i'm used to them, since i don't use it much, i only play with zowie when i want to change a little from G400 and especially to decide if i will sell it or keep it


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Try playing diablo for a few hours with it, then see how stiff you think they are...


this
fk would be my main mouse if i didnt play so much RTS/ARPG

oh well


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hi kazuyamishima, thanks for your reply.
> Well there's a big difference between both switches, zowie fk vs G400 or DABE (mices i own and i can compare), but what i'm trying to figure out is if it's possible, zowie's switches with some use can become softer. I don't think i'm used to them, since i don't use it much, i only play with zowie when i want to change a little from G400 and especially to decide if i will sell it or keep it


I see. I am sorry to say I have not experienced them being softer. But I do believe you can get used to them. Since you already have the mouse, maybe just keep using it for about a month or so, and see what you think. When you change a peripheral, usually anything different is odd, annoying or uncomfortable at first. But more often than not, you adapt and it does not remain an issue. I have no strong preference for omrons over Huanos like most people on this board, but I do recognize the difference in feel.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

What mouse pad are you guys using for your FK? I have this aluminium pad, it works fine but it really eats mouse feet fast, so I am thinking about getting a cloth pad.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> What mouse pad are you guys using for your FK? I have this aluminium pad, it works fine but it really eats mouse feet fast, so I am thinking about getting a cloth pad.


red artisan hien
i also have a black qck heavy (that serves as padding for my hien) that it tracks well on also.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Any word on an FK FG? I emailed them but they never responded. Zowie has a habit of releasing a white gloss version of everything, I just hope they will do the same for the FK.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> red artisan hien
> i also have a black qck heavy (that serves as padding for my hien) that it tracks well on also.


I decided to go with the Artisan Hayate.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> What mouse pad are you guys using for your FK? I have this aluminium pad, it works fine but it really eats mouse feet fast, so I am thinking about getting a cloth pad.


I'm using a Func 1030XL.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Any word on an FK FG? I emailed them but they never responded. Zowie has a habit of releasing a white gloss version of everything, I just hope they will do the same for the FK.


I emailed them and got a reply saying no plans too (but that could be from someone not in the loop). I did mention that I had difficulty with the FK due to no gloss and said that others did as well. Hopefully they will at some point.


----------



## spiderga

I posted this on the other thread but just saw this one and I guess this belongs here: Where can I get the mouse with a good price? Pretty much every time I get hardware I just find it cheaper next week. I prefer stores with good feedback anyway, don't want to risk it for 10€. I guess official store is the way or other alternatives?


----------



## esoterikk

Did anyone get finger cramps when they first started using the FK? I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and I am getting cramps in my ring and middle finger that I never got before which is a shame because i LOVE this mouse. I used to use a Kana, did anyone else get this? did it go away?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esoterikk*
> 
> Did anyone get finger cramps when they first started using the FK? I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and I am getting cramps in my ring and middle finger that I never got before which is a shame because i LOVE this mouse. I used to use a Kana, did anyone else get this? did it go away?


try if you can find your pain there: http://www.triggerpoints.net/forearm-and-hand.htm

if so, treat it with deep selfmassage of the relevant "triggerpoints".


----------



## Sencha

Hope they do a gloss at some point


----------



## Xanatos

logitech's g100s' material/coating is much better than zowie's glossy surface. it get too dirty quick.


----------



## bvazx

What's the nonsense!
I had Logitech g100s. I returned it to the store...
And yes, I use my Zowie FK.


----------



## esoterikk

What are you guys doing dpi wise? I've been using 5/11 to get close to my preferred DPI (800) but I'm still iffy if 5/11 is a smart move (not using 6/11 1:1). 1150 is to fast and 400 is way to slow for me so I'm kind of in a jam, suggestions? What did you guys do to solve this problem?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esoterikk*
> 
> What are you guys doing dpi wise? I've been using 5/11 to get close to my preferred DPI (800) but I'm still iffy if 5/11 is a smart move (not using 6/11 1:1). 1150 is to fast and 400 is way to slow for me so I'm kind of in a jam, suggestions? What did you guys do to solve this problem?


No other way to get closer to 800, but as you said 5/11 is inconsistent.
I'd say get used to either 1150 or 575 dpi with 4/11.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No other way to get closer to 800, but as you said 5/11 is inconsistent.
> I'd say get used to either 1150 or 575 dpi with 4/11.


This. A guy in another thread also had this question. 5/11 is bad because it skips only every 4th count which is very bad for mouse feel.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No other way to get closer to 800, but as you said 5/11 is inconsistent.
> I'd say get used to either 1150 or 575 dpi with 4/11.


2300 DPI with 3/11 works great as well. (Mine is ~2400 so ~600 with 3/11)


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> 2300 DPI with 3/11 works great as well. (Mine is ~2400 so ~600 with 3/11)


I know, that's what I do too







But as he said 450 is way too low for him I was guessing that something between 550 and 600 would be too.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I know, that's what I do too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But as he said 450 is way too low for him I was guessing that something between 550 and 600 would be too.


Personally I find 600 DPI to be very nice in Windows.







To bad the lense on my AM is loose... maybe will try to glue it so it doesn't move around.


----------



## Coreda

I haven't been through all 88 pages but does anyone have the TL;DR of *potential negatives about the FK*?

I've owned three gaming mice all of which I've returned due to angle-snapping, etc. I value a mouse I can make very small movements at low dpi with and have full control, is the Zowie FK such a mouse?


----------



## esoterikk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No other way to get closer to 800, but as you said 5/11 is inconsistent.
> I'd say get used to either 1150 or 575 dpi with 4/11.


So 5/11 is actually bad? Damn, looks like i'll have to get used to 1150, hope it doesn't cause wrist problems, that was the original reason I lowered it from 1600 years back (I played wow don't judge me)


----------



## Thunderbringer

Hey guys,

after reading that Zowie plans to release a new FK version, no yellow bottom, 24step wheel.. i thought to myself now or newer. So i ordered a FK and after unpacking it, i was pretty surprised! Yellow bottom + LOD "trick" + IR-LED + 16step wheel.

Meassured sensitivity is exactly 2380 (on various pads). Anyone else knows about this combination/mixture?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> after reading that Zowie plans to release a new FK version, no yellow bottom, 24step wheel.. i thought to myself now or newer. So i ordered a FK and after unpacking it, i was pretty surprised! Yellow bottom + LOD "trick" + IR-LED + 16step wheel.
> 
> Meassured sensitivity is exactly 2380 (on various pads). Anyone else knows about this combination/mixture?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Wow, that is really strange. They are obviously transitioning to the new FK. Technically your FK is still completely true to its spec-sheet I guess. So in that sense it is kind of OK.

That is a pretty special limited edition version you have there


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> after reading that Zowie plans to release a new FK version, no yellow bottom, 24step wheel.. i thought to myself now or newer. So i ordered a FK and after unpacking it, i was pretty surprised! Yellow bottom + LOD "trick" + IR-LED + 16step wheel.
> 
> Meassured sensitivity is exactly 2380 (on various pads). Anyone else knows about this combination/mixture?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Got one of these too. Performs like the previous model pretty much.


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> I haven't been through all 88 pages but does anyone have the TL;DR of *potential negatives about the FK*?
> 
> I've owned three gaming mice all of which I've returned due to angle-snapping, etc. I value a mouse I can make very small movements at low dpi with and have full control, is the Zowie FK such a mouse?


Potential negatives about the FK when you comb through the topics on this forum (this is not everyone's opinion, these are just things that are mentioned).

-Not everyone likes the Huano switches, which are heavier than the typical Omrons

-Not everyone likes the shape (like every other mouse). The usual complaints are " too small" and specifically " too low". That said, the general response to the shape has been positive.

-Some people complain about the DPI steps, most often the ommission of 800 DPI. I have asked multiple times whether or not this is simply addressed by adjusting settings (like windows 6/11, 450 DPI, CS:GO ingame 1.75, instead of windows 6/11, 800 DPI CS:GO ingame 0.5). No one has answered me yet, though I am still pretty curious to learn how this affects things. The reason why I am wondering this specifically, is because even professionals play on ingame sensitivity settings that differ as much as from 1 to 3.5, and those are just the ones I know off. You would then expect that this has no profound effect, but I am not sure (could also differ per game, but even then, who is to say whether you are better off with low or high ingame sensitivity).

-Some people notice lag on the 450 DPI setting. Others say they do not notice it. I was told I was not " perceptive enough" , even though I play on low sensitivity, notice issues with other mice that some find only theoretical, and I should play " seriously" enough to notice with general stats over 2.0 K/D in every FPS like BLR, Tribes:Ascend and CS:GO and over 1000 hours played with the FK (except BF4 where I play almost exclusively infantry in objective based games and my K/D is 1.8). As it stands, this issue is unresolved. I am not saying people are talking nonsense, but we are not sure if all FK's are affected or whether there are other things contributing to the problem.

-Not all the Zowie mice have the exact same DPI settings. 450 DPI can be 480 on one mouse and 510 on the other.

-While the surface material/coating is generally liked, some do not like it. Personally I am not a fan of any rubberized coatings, and while the FK feels better than, for example, the EC or deathadder black, I would still prefer normal WMO style cheap ass plastic.

-The mouse-wheel is heavy and does not scroll smoothly. Some like this (every individual step on the scroll wheel is very distinct) others do not. This will be changed in the 2014 version of the FK.

-While the mouse is generally praised for its low lift off distance, not eveyone likes the low lift off distance. Some people have a habit of lifting their mouse from the mousepad a milimeter or so without the intention of stopping the sensor from tracking. This is not possible with the FK. It stops tracking when raised even very little.


----------



## Series60

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> -Not everyone likes the Huano switches, which are heavier than the typical Omrons
> 
> -Not everyone likes the shape (like every other mouse). The usual complaints are " too small" and specifically " too low". That said, the general response to the shape has been positive.
> .


+1 To that, I loved the performance but the size dimensions just killed it for me, either it is a real PURE claw, or just too small, my hands hurt after weeks and took sometime to recover.
Coating not too bad but if you sweat it might not be good I also prefer MS 1.1A coating. About the Huano - after using Omrons I can't see myself going back to Huano.


----------



## Thunderbringer

@ kazuyamishima : Ok, i see.

@ Ino. : Damn, i thought i was special!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Potential negatives about the FK when you comb through the topics on this forum (this is not everyone's opinion, these are just things that are mentioned).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Cropped
> 
> 
> 
> -Not everyone likes the Huano switches, which are heavier than the typical Omrons
> 
> -Not everyone likes the shape (like every other mouse). The usual complaints are " too small" and specifically " too low". That said, the general response to the shape has been positive.
> 
> -Some people complain about the DPI steps, most often the ommission of 800 DPI. I have asked multiple times whether or not this is simply addressed by adjusting settings (like windows 6/11, 450 DPI, CS:GO ingame 1.75, instead of windows 6/11, 800 DPI CS:GO ingame 0.5). No one has answered me yet, though I am still pretty curious to learn how this affects things. The reason why I am wondering this specifically, is because even professionals play on ingame sensitivity settings that differ as much as from 1 to 3.5, and those are just the ones I know off. You would then expect that this has no profound effect, but I am not sure (could also differ per game, but even then, who is to say whether you are better off with low or high ingame sensitivity).
> 
> -Some people notice lag on the 450 DPI setting. Others say they do not notice it. I was told I was not " perceptive enough" , even though I play on low sensitivity, notice issues with other mice that some find only theoretical, and I should play " seriously" enough to notice with general stats over 2.0 K/D in every FPS like BLR, Tribes:Ascend and CS:GO and over 1000 hours played with the FK (except BF4 where I play almost exclusively infantry in objective based games and my K/D is 1.8). As it stands, this issue is unresolved. I am not saying people are talking nonsense, but we are not sure if all FK's are affected or whether there are other things contributing to the problem.
> 
> -Not all the Zowie mice have the exact same DPI settings. 450 DPI can be 480 on one mouse and 510 on the other.
> 
> -While the surface material/coating is generally liked, some do not like it. Personally I am not a fan of any rubberized coatings, and while the FK feels better than, for example, the EC or deathadder black, I would still prefer normal WMO style cheap ass plastic.
> 
> -The mouse-wheel is heavy and does not scroll smoothly. Some like this (every individual step on the scroll wheel is very distinct) others do not. This will be changed in the 2014 version of the FK.
> 
> -While the mouse is generally praised for its low lift off distance, not eveyone likes the low lift off distance. Some people have a habit of lifting their mouse from the mousepad a milimeter or so without the intention of stopping the sensor from tracking. This is not possible with the FK. It stops tracking when raised even very little.


This is a pretty accurate TL;DR of this thread, however I'd like to comment on some of the things:
Quote:


> -Some people complain about the DPI steps, most often the ommission of 800 DPI. I have asked multiple times whether or not this is simply addressed by adjusting settings (like windows 6/11, 450 DPI, CS:GO ingame 1.75, instead of windows 6/11, 800 DPI CS:GO ingame 0.5). No one has answered me yet, though I am still pretty curious to learn how this affects things. The reason why I am wondering this specifically, is because even professionals play on ingame sensitivity settings that differ as much as from 1 to 3.5, and those are just the ones I know off. You would then expect that this has no profound effect, but I am not sure (could also differ per game, but even then, who is to say whether you are better off with low or high ingame sensitivity).


This is mainly a problem for people who play 2D games where your sensitivity can not be changed as well as in FPS games, because with every count you move pixels, not angles. To get a faster cursor without skipping pixels you need more dpi, to get a slower cursor you can only throw counts away which can only do 1/2 (10101010...), 1/4 (100010001...), etc of the original speed or it is inconsistent like 5/11 in windows (111011101...)
In a 3D environment it mainly changes the feeling of your mousemovement. The smaller your angles are for turning the more smoothed out it will feel. There is nothing wrong with that, but some just like the feel of less smoothed angles, that's why they dislike higher dpi and rather use low dpi with a higher in-game sens to achieve the same distance for a 360° turn. Don't ever listen to people who say "high dpi is bad per se because all pros use low dpi".
Quote:


> -Not all the Zowie mice have the exact same DPI settings. 450 DPI can be 480 on one mouse and 510 on the other.


All mice have variation from unit to unit with the dpi because of a plethora of tolerances that influence that (sensor hight, lens, etc.). That being said the Zowies seemed to be a bit more extreme in their deviation from the proclaimed dpi steps (on my older models with red LED the real steps were 480, 1220, 2380) but that seems different with the newer IR-LED batch. At least my two models (EC1 CL and FK) are closer the wanted values (447,1100,2215). Funny enough the newer models all have lower than proclaimed steps, the old ones had higher ones.


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Don't ever listen to people who say "high dpi is bad per se because all pros use low dpi"..


I'm not trying to be rude but I just had to lol at that, who are you again and what have you accomplished? Lets see... Lets take advice from countless top players (all of which use low dpi) or some guy named Ino on overclock.net that posts in the mice forums that's completely biased towards the product he uses, the fact of the matter is players want common dpi steps, they don't want to play on 2300 dpi and Zowie simply doesn't offer enough alternatives other than a buggy 450 dpi step which is still preferred by professionals, I'm getting pretty irritated that I have to keep explaining this to you.

Everything from lining up a quick precise grenade to general aim and flicking (smooth, snappy, etc) is completely different when you're playing on a dpi like 2300 compared to a dpi like 450 regardless of jitter, all these little intricate things add up and effect your game at a higher level of play.

@Metal as for your "The pros using nothing but 400 or 450 CPI is probably because they're used to it." yes that's highly true for most, but when you're talking about literally everyone, there's much more to it than comfort, you honestly think that every professional player out there knows nothing about their hardware?


----------



## metal571

The pros using nothing but 400 or 450 CPI is probably because they're used to it. I can't possibly see anything wrong if a game supports raw input, and you want to play at 1600 CPI instead then set your sensitivity to 1/4 of what it was. How the hell is extra turning granularity an actual detriment? Explain this.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The pros using nothing but 400 or 450 CPI is probably because they're used to it. I can't possibly see anything wrong if a game supports raw input, and you want to play at 1600 CPI instead then set your sensitivity to 1/4 of what it was. How the hell is extra turning granularity an actual detriment? Explain this.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Read again, I've edited my post.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> Read again, I've edited my post.


How is something that gives you extra turning granularity going to hurt you, all you are doing is defending the pros. You haven't answered my question. How is 0.25 with 1600 CPI for example worse than 400 CPI with 1 in game sens assuming the sensor performs the same? That argument strikes me as insane.


----------



## superior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> How is something that gives you extra turning granularity going to hurt you, all you are doing is defending the pros. You haven't answered my question. How is 0.25 with 1600 CPI for example worse than 400 CPI with 1 in game sens assuming the sensor performs the same? That argument strikes me as insane.


Did you totally miss my post?

"Everything from lining up a quick precise grenade to general aim and flicking (smooth, snappy, etc) is completely different when you're playing on a dpi like 2300 compared to a dpi like 450 regardless of jitter, all these little intricate things add up and effect your game at a higher level of play."

Insane or not, you remind me of one of those people that argues the human eye can only see upto x amount fps so what point is there in having more, its about feel and players feel the difference, what on earth is so puzzling about that?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> Did you totally miss my post?
> 
> "Everything from lining up a quick precise grenade to general aim and flicking (smooth, snappy, etc) is completely different when you're playing on a dpi like 2300 compared to a dpi like 450 regardless of jitter, all these little intricate things add up and effect your game at a higher level of play."
> 
> Insane or not, you remind me of one of those people that argues the human eye can only see upto x amount fps so what point is there in having more, its about feel and players feel the difference, what on earth is so puzzling about that?


Well, that argument with 2300 vs. 450 CPI still falls into the "I'm used to feeling like X when aiming so I continue to use X instead of Y." Okay, enough answering my question. I did read that, but that line offered me nothing new in the argument.

And also, I can EASILY tell the difference between 60 and 120 Hz monitors. Anyone who can't is...wrong.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superior*
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude but I just had to lol at that, who are you again and what have you accomplished? Lets see... Lets take advice from countless top players (all of which use low dpi) or some guy named Ino on overclock.net that posts in the mice forums that's completely biased towards the product he uses, the fact of the matter is players want common dpi steps, they don't want to play on 2300 dpi and Zowie simply doesn't offer enough alternatives other than a buggy 450 dpi step which is still preferred by professionals, I'm getting pretty irritated that I have to keep explaining this to you.
> 
> Everything from lining up a quick precise grenade to general aim and flicking (smooth, snappy, etc) is completely different when you're playing on a dpi like 2300 compared to a dpi like 450 regardless of jitter, all these little intricate things add up and effect your game at a higher level of play.
> 
> @Metal as for your "The pros using nothing but 400 or 450 CPI is probably because they're used to it." yes that's highly true for most, but when you're talking about literally everyone, there's much more to it than comfort, you honestly think that every professional player out there knows nothing about their hardware?


See, you still don't get it.
I'm not even trying to say that how you do is wrong, it's just a matter of how you want the cursor to feel! It's not better or worse any way (as long as you have the minimal angle set in a way that allows for pixel precise aiming). It's a choice, people have different preferences etc. Also there are more games than Counter Strike, you know?

The CS pros use low dpi because that is the feeling they are used to. Simple as that. And the new ones that come to the scene see every pro use low dpi and what do they do? They use low dpi too, get used to a certain cursor feeling and stick with it because that is how you improve. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not "better" just because they use it. They would probably perform exactly the same with higher dpi and lower in-game sens if they were willing to adapt to the new feeling. But why should they etc.

Also I don't disagree that it would be awesome for Zowies to have an 800 dpi step or a 450 step that was more responsive. They are certainly not perfect. I think I wrote the exact same thing before, but once again: Every mouse has flaws, Zowies having these dpi steps, other mice having high LOD or jitter or terrible shapes or smoothing etc. I can live with the dpi steps and love the rest about the Zowies, that's why I'm using them. I would never recommend them to everyone because I'm well aware that they are not perfect.

Btw: wasn't there a list of the dpi steps current pros use together with in-game sens somewhere? Just curious as I have no connection to the CS scene at all, but that would be a nice database to set up for comparison.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> See, you still don't get it.
> I'm not even trying to say that how you do is wrong, it's just a matter of how you want the cursor to feel! It's not better or worse any way (as long as you have the minimal angle set in a way that allows for pixel precise aiming). It's a choice, people have different preferences etc. Also there are more games than Counter Strike, you know?
> 
> The CS pros use low dpi because that is the feeling they are used to. Simple as that. And the new ones that come to the scene see every pro use low dpi and what do they do? They use low dpi too, get used to a certain cursor feeling and stick with it because that is how you improve. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not "better" just because they use it. They would probably perform exactly the same with higher dpi and lower in-game sens if they were willing to adapt to the new feeling. But why should they etc.
> 
> Also I don't disagree that it would be awesome for Zowies to have an 800 dpi step or a 450 step that was more responsive. They are certainly not perfect. I think I wrote the exact same thing before, but once again: Every mouse has flaws, Zowies having these dpi steps, other mice having high LOD or jitter or terrible shapes or smoothing etc. I can live with the dpi steps and love the rest about the Zowies, that's why I'm using them. I would never recommend them to everyone because I'm well aware that they are not perfect.
> 
> Btw: wasn't there a list of the dpi steps current pros use together with in-game sens somewhere? Just curious as I have no connection to the CS scene at all, but that would be a nice database to set up for comparison.


That's exactly my thoughts.

Here: http://www.hltv.org/forum/104448-pro-players-mouse-sensitivity-thread-database


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> Potential negatives about the FK when you comb through the topics on this forum (this is not everyone's opinion, these are just things that are mentioned).
> 
> -Not everyone likes the Huano switches, which are heavier than the typical Omrons
> 
> -Not everyone likes the shape (like every other mouse). The usual complaints are " too small" and specifically " too low". That said, the general response to the shape has been positive.
> 
> -Some people notice lag on the 450 DPI setting. Others say they do not notice it.


Great post, very detailed and thought out - thanks







. Snipped for brevity.

Personally I don't think the smaller size will be an issue, as I found the OG Kinzu to be the perfect size for me and have always valued more compact mice (claw grip). So that's good. Will be interesting to find how the buttons feel.

The lag at 450dpi is something new. Reading through some of the posts it's been described as 'pixel walk'. Really hope this doesn't affect the new 2014 versions.

Still, it's the only mouse I could find that fitted what I am looking for so until I get my hands on one it's all one opinion over another


----------



## esoterikk

Quote:


> Not everyone likes the shape (like every other mouse). The usual complaints are " too small" and specifically " too low". That said, the general response to the shape has been positive.


On the topic of the shape, I've been getting some cramps lately and a little worried since I otherwise love the mouse. Not really sure what to do, power through? don't really want to put a 70$ mouse to waste and I actually really like the shape outside of my hand/arm cramping (which might be a symptom of my desk being too high since my elbow is at a <90 degree angle instead of >90 degree like it's supposed to be making my wrist bend downward)


----------



## RentoN

Can anyone explain to me why exactly the 450DPI setting is supposed to be bad?
With enotus I get about the same presicion and speed results with 450 as with the other settings and I don't feel any jitter nor see it in paint.
And what exactly does "lag" mean in this context? Can't say I feel it. is there any way to test if my FK has it at 450DPI?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why exactly the 450DPI setting is supposed to be bad?
> With enotus I get about the same presicion and speed results with 450 as with the other settings and I don't feel any jitter nor see it in paint.
> And what exactly does "lag" mean in this context? Can't say I feel it. is there any way to test if my FK has it at 450DPI?


It's just feels delayed. I used 450 DPI on Zowie a long time, I felt something was wierd but I just couldn't tell what. Then I read here about the input lag and tried the 2300 DPI step (mine is ~2400) and 3/11 in Windows. Now I realy felt connected to the mouse, much snappier movement and it felt perfect. Just try out the 2300 step with 3/11 in Windows with the same cm/360. Then use what you prefer.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Just try out the 2300 step with 3/11 in Windows with the same cm/360. Then use what you prefer.


I used the 2300 setting for the most time I owned the FK and switching to 450 I don't feel any difference at all.
Can't notice any delay and the cursor/crosshair still feels like glued to the mouse.
Maybe it's because I use 500Hz? Some people said 450 works better with 500Hz.
Or maybe it isnt true for all FKs and I got lucky.
Or maybe it's there and I just don't feel it.
Anyways, gonna stick with 450 now since thats what I'm more used to and because some games just don't allow low enough sensitivity settings to get 30+cm/360 with 2300DPI.


----------



## Andre4s

what better for FPS, Zowie AM or FK?do / \ a grip so uncomfortable on AM?by the way does not interfere with wire wool on SS kana?And click where quieter?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RentoN*
> 
> I used the 2300 setting for the most time I owned the FK and switching to 450 I don't feel any difference at all.
> Can't notice any delay and the cursor/crosshair still feels like glued to the mouse.
> Maybe it's because I use 500Hz? Some people said 450 works better with 500Hz.
> Or maybe it isnt true for all FKs and I got lucky.
> Or maybe it's there and I just don't feel it.
> Anyways, gonna stick with 450 now since thats what I'm more used to and because some games just don't allow low enough sensitivity settings to get 30+cm/360 with 2300DPI.


You probably just don't notice it. But if it's working for you I don't see any point to not use it.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> what better for FPS, Zowie AM or FK?do / \ a grip so uncomfortable on AM?by the way does not interfere with wire wool on SS kana?And click where quieter?


I have not tried FK but I like the glossy version of AM, would prefer it to be a little wider but it's still good. Sticks good to my hand, no problem lifting it due to the grip the glossy version provides. Performance wise they are the same. I have also heard that FKs shell makes the Huano switches feel harder than they do in AM.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> You probably just don't notice it. But if it's working for you I don't see any point to not use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not tried FK but I like the glossy version of AM, would prefer it to be a little wider but it's still good. Sticks good to my hand, no problem lifting it due to the grip the glossy version provides. Performance wise they are the same. I have also heard that FKs shell makes the Huano switches feel harder than they do in AM.


what size of your hand?big or middle?or may be small?))


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> what size of your hand?big or middle?or may be small?))


Like figure 2 it's ~20 cm

http://www.speedwear.co.uk/hands.jpg


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I have also heard that FKs shell makes the Huano switches feel harder than they do in AM.


Wait, what? From what I've read it's the opposite.


----------



## detto87

I can only speak for myself, but I find the huano switches on the FK a tad bit lighter. They're still way harder than a Deathadder omron switch or similar though. It may also have to do with how you grab the mouse and at what angle your fingers are on the buttons when you press them.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Like figure 2 it's ~20 cm
> 
> http://www.speedwear.co.uk/hands.jpg


Hmm, my -17 and 7,5.that take that. Maybe kana v2,but wire,but buttons omron.head already hurts. Incidentally hand sometimes sweats that say about the cover FK.I honestly am sitting on the genius netscrol 100)) and kill like, not bad))she such as narrow as AM


----------



## kazuyamishima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Wait, what? From what I've read it's the opposite.


I had the AM before I got the FK. I think the difference is pretty subtle, but it is indeed lighter on the FK. Possibly this is influenced by where you place your fingers on the mouse. Moving them forward makes the click feel slightly lighter. If you grip the AM differently than you do the FK, your experience might differ.

However, most people will feel that the FK is the lighter of the two. I have not heard the opposite yet.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> what better for FPS, Zowie AM or FK?do / \ a grip so uncomfortable on AM?


That seems to be more of a preference issue than I'd previously thought.

For me it's night and day FK > AM. Because of the shape of the AM there is simply nothing to grip when you need to lift the mouse.

But other people seem to be ok with the shape of the AM and even prefer the overall mouse over the FK.

____________________________________________________________

I'm seeing a lot of misleading information in this thread about DPI.

1. Pros use 400 DPI because you cannot aim accurately enough to be on a pro level with anything higher than what 400DPI would *allow for*. Yes, you can use high DPI and lower your ingame/windows sens but there is no advantage to this over just using 400DPI.

2. Certain mice function better on high DPI because it's their native DPI. Setting these mice to their native DPI and lowering windows sensitivity will net the same ingame speed. This delivers an identical outcome (to just using 400DPI) if not for point #3 which is:

3. High DPI introduces innacuracy to mice. High DPI produces jitter so smoothing has to be implemented to counter this and it ruins even the low DPI settings on mice.

4. The overall take-away is that very very few people (multiple monitors) NEED high DPI. 400 DPI is the standard speed for high level competitive gaming. Companies are deceiving casual gamers into thinking that high DPI = higher accuracy; this is FALSE! They're doing it for the purpose of making more money and in turn are ruining "gaming" mice and are not providing the accuracy & precision that a competitive gamer needs in a true gaming mouse.

HIGH DPI IS WORSE, not to mention completely unnecessary for over 95% of gamers.

High DPI is > 800-1000DPI.

PS, I think I'll just save this to copy paste every time the DPI subject comes up


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That seems to be more of a preference issue than I'd previously thought.
> 
> For me it's night and day FK > AM. Because of the shape of the AM there is simply nothing to grip when you need to lift the mouse.
> 
> But other people seem to be ok with the shape of the AM and even prefer the overall mouse over the FK.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of misleading information in this thread about DPI.
> 
> 1. Pros use 400 DPI because you cannot aim accurately enough to be on a pro level with anything higher than what 400DPI would *allow for*. Yes, you can use high DPI and lower your ingame/windows sens but there is no advantage to this over just using 400DPI.
> 
> 2. Certain mice function better on high DPI because it's their native DPI. Setting these mice to their native DPI and lowering windows sensitivity will net the same ingame speed. This delivers an identical outcome (to just using 400DPI) if not for point #3 which is:
> 
> 3. High DPI introduces innacuracy to mice. High DPI produces jitter so smoothing has to be implemented to counter this and it ruins even the low DPI settings on mice.
> 
> 4. The overall take-away is that very very few people (multiple monitors) NEED high DPI. 400 DPI is the standard speed for high level competitive gaming. Companies are deceiving casual gamers into thinking that high DPI = higher accuracy; this is FALSE! They're doing it for the purpose of making more money and in turn are ruining "gaming" mice and are not providing the accuracy & precision that a competitive gamer needs in a true gaming mouse.
> 
> HIGH DPI IS WORSE, not to mention completely unnecessary for over 95% of gamers.
> 
> High DPI is > 800-1000DPI.
> 
> PS, I think I'll just save this to copy paste every time the DPI subject comes up


Giving you Rep for that post. Sounds logical. But, how does one improve the speed when needed to get the mouse near the area where 400DPI would benefit you on accuracy? Just change in between the settings using a mouse with a DPI settings switch? I want to make sure I understand this correctly.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AJR1775*
> 
> Giving you Rep for that post. Sounds logical. But, how does one improve the speed when needed to get the mouse near the area where 400DPI would benefit you on accuracy? Just change in between the settings using a mouse with a DPI settings switch? I want to make sure I understand this correctly.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

You can use this site to see under what circumstances more than 400DPI would become useful: http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html - but note that since raw input has been implemented in games this is no longer a factor. With raw input on you can use any DPI on any resolution and maintain the same accuracy (as far as I've heard, feel free to correct me on this).

I forgot to note that my numbered list was dedicated to FPS games. In RTS games like SC2, because of the game's coding you will actually benefit from >400DPI if you need to raise your sensitivity. This is because raising your sensitivity ingame is equal to raising your windows sensitivity above 6/11, which is really bad.

BTW, *to whoever asked about the 450DPI inaccuracy on the FK*: I experienced it too. Ino suggested that it's called "pixel walk" - how the mouse performs when moved slowly, IE: trying to select text. When doing things like this that require precision the mouse felt "floaty"/inaccurate. Ingame it also felt more imprecise than my IE 3.0.


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> BTW, *to whoever asked about the 450DPI inaccuracy on the FK*: I experienced it too. Ino suggested that it's called "pixel walk" - how the mouse performs when moved slowly, IE: trying to select text. When doing things like this that require precision the mouse felt "floaty"/inaccurate. Ingame it also felt more imprecise than my IE 3.0.


Seems the original term comes from this interview with a Logitech Engineer:

"*Pixel Walk.* This phenomenon occurs when moving your mouse at very low speeds, and is a good test to gauge for low-speed accuracy. To conserve power in wireless mice, tracking is sometimes disabled when the mouse isn't moving, and activated when the sensor detects a certain threshold of movement. That threshold is very tricky for mouse engineers, because they want to keep it as high as possible to conserve battery consumption while also as low as possible to track very slow and nuanced movements. When you're moving a mouse at the speed that hovers right at that threshold, tracking may start and stop, causing the cursor to jump."

Bizarre it would affect a wired mouse. Unless it's a limitation of the senor I wonder if some firmware could fix it. That, or perhaps some users had accidentally set anything other than a 6/11 setting in Windows, which I've read can can also cause pixel skipping.


----------



## CorruptBE

It's the main reason why I don't use Zowie mice till this day, even though I love the shapes. It's bad on all settings and ranges from bad to horrible as you lower the dpi setting. Guess I'm just a tad more nitpicky and sensitive, but what you notice at 450 dpi, I already notice at 2300 dpi and it just gets worse as I lower the dpi.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> or perhaps some users had accidentally set anything other than a 6/11 setting in Windows, which I've read can can also cause pixel skipping.


Negative. I definitely used 6/11.

Also, 5/11 is the only lower-than-6/11 setting that has negative effects. It's the higher-than-6/11 settings which have negative effects: http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization


----------



## Ino.

I called it pixel walk because that's what it felt like: a threshold until movement is detected. I don't know if that is actually the case here. But then I didn't experience any of this at 2300 dpi, 3/11. But I might not be sensitive enough for this anyway because it never bothered me for gaming on any setting.


----------



## Andre4s

but I did not lose if take FK, on it because no one complained and I can not find something critical for or against this or that mouse ...unfortunately. legs the way as quickly erased?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> but I did not lose if take FK, on it because no one complained and I can not find something critical for or against this or that mouse ...unfortunately. legs the way as quickly erased?


Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say...?


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say...?


google translator in general it does not matter.quickly erased as Teflon?P.S how much to charge replacement. and whether to take Camade Bundle? the way you do not seem too good for FK+ camade 64.90 € moreover, only FK and not AM- sold poorly?))also speak in AM quickly erased surface harder and click.if it's important that I had MS 3.0 but it was a bit heavy


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> google translator in general it does not matter.quickly erased as Teflon?P.S how much to charge replacement. and whether to take Camade Bundle? the way you do not seem too good for FK+ camade 64.90 € moreover, only FK and not AM- sold poorly?))also speak in AM quickly erased surface harder and click.if it's important that I had MS 3.0 but it was a bit heavy


google translator is broken it seems.


----------



## defury

Anyone using the FK for Dota 2/Sc2? how is it fore more click intensive games like these?


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> Anyone using the FK for Dota 2/Sc2? how is it fore more click intensive games like these?


i play mainly rts/moba and own an fk. i only use it for FPS, the stiff huanos are just not good for rts and your fingers tire out quick.

on another note i picked up a ec2 evo cl which also has huanos except i can use it for rts. i guess its just because of the way the plunger hits the switch or they did something to the huanos for the cl edition. either way i haven't been able to put the mouse down and that's saying alot considering my sizable collection.

i dont recommend the FK for RTS.


----------



## defury

Yea, I bought one based on the shape and am kind of regretting the decision after using it a couple days







maybe I'll get used to it, don't want to let the 60$ go to waste.


----------



## Coreda

Are there some actuation force charts comparing the 'stiffness' of the Huano, Omron, and other mouse switches in grams?


----------



## oicwutudidthar

can anyone recommend where to buy replacement feet for the fk?


----------



## Andre4s

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=where2buy


----------



## toatoa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> Anyone using the FK for Dota 2/Sc2? how is it fore more click intensive games like these?


It clicks slower making splitting a bit more difficult/slower than other mice like the kinzu or abyssus.


----------



## toatoa

It clicks slower making splitting a bit more difficult/slower than other mice like the kinzu or abyssus.


----------



## TriviumKM

Zowie FK'14

Feels about the same as my original FK.

Edit: Updated with Enotus tests.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!












*Real DPI: 450 is really 480; 1150 is really 1200; 2300 is really 2400
*500 Polling is still unstable (jumps to 1000 constantly)


----------



## Ezk

So, your're saying that I should look elsewhere if i am interested in their mice? Maybe the evo series than?

I have a g400s that i am not happy with. There seems to be a double click delay or something every once and awhile that i cannot always replicate, but i notice it. First i thought it was my fingers, but i have ruled that out. I've had logitech mice since the early 2000's starting mx revolution, g5, g500, and now this. I did buy a old version of mx518, but hated the prediction. I have longer fingers and a medium palm. Their curved housing seemed to support my hand but i'm tired tho of this crap with these mice. Time to move to a different company. But you state other wise with the FK...


----------



## Series60

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ezk*
> 
> So, your're saying that I should look elsewhere if i am interested in their mice? Maybe the evo series than?
> 
> I have a g400s that i am not happy with. There seems to be a double click delay or something every once and awhile that i cannot always replicate, but i notice it. First i thought it was my fingers, but i have ruled that out. I've had logitech mice since the early 2000's starting mx revolution, g5, g500, and now this. I did buy a old version of mx518, but hated the prediction. I have longer fingers and a medium palm. Their curved housing seemed to support my hand but i'm tired tho of this crap with these mice. Time to move to a different company. But you state other wise with the FK...


keep in mind that FK and g400 are completely different in terms of shape


----------



## defury

I'm still getting weird finger burning/cramps when using this mouse and not when using spawn/g400, getting a little worried that maybe I wasted some money. Has anyone felt this on any mouse before? Did anything fix it?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> I'm still getting weird finger burning/cramps when using this mouse and not when using spawn/g400, getting a little worried that maybe I wasted some money. Has anyone felt this on any mouse before? Did anything fix it?


Yes, but contrary to you my hand would cramp at the G400 (******ed right side lip) and the Savu, FK was fine.

If a mouse is not comfortable for you after one week of heavy use I'd say switch.


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes, but contrary to you my hand would cramp at the G400 (******ed right side lip) and the Savu, FK was fine.
> 
> If a mouse is not comfortable for you after one week of heavy use I'd say switch.


See that's the weird thing, I can use a Kana or a Sensei fine which are close shapes but the FK just seems to destroy my hand for some reason


----------



## Coreda

Could it be the narrower dimensions and stiffer Huano switches? I could imagine a narrower mouse cramping some users hands, especially if they were gripping it tightly.


----------



## Series60

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Could it be the narrower dimensions and stiffer Huano switches? I could imagine a narrower mouse cramping some users hands, especially if they were gripping it tightly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *defury*
> 
> I'm still getting weird finger burning/cramps when using this mouse and not when using spawn/g400, getting a little worried that maybe I wasted some money. Has anyone felt this on any mouse before? Did anything fix it?


I can report my hands were cramping with the Zowie FK, had to change mouse


----------



## Blutch

did you have this with the steelseries sensei too? (if you tried it?)

ill switch from sensei to fk soon. when the sell the 1014 version


----------



## skuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Series60*
> 
> I can report my hands were cramping with the Zowie FK, had to change mouse


same thing happened to me. went from the daiblo3 mouse (sensei form factor) to FK, couldn't stand it, too narrow. went back to the D3 mouse. now i'm claw/fingertip gripping a Rival and it's ok.

considering buying avior 7000 or sensei raw frost blue ed.

now my brand new FK is just sitting packed in its box and catching dust :X


----------



## Series60

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> did you have this with the steelseries sensei too? (if you tried it?)
> 
> ill switch from sensei to fk soon. when the sell the 1014 version


I tried the Sensei for like 60seconds on friends house, so can't really tell
Why would you change the Sensei anyway? If you like the Shape stay IMO


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Series60*
> 
> I tried the Sensei for like 60seconds on friends house, so can't really tell
> Why would you change the Sensei anyway? If you like the Shape stay IMO


i think id like the coating of the fk better, and the shape seems attractive, as is the great sensor.

also my coating is wairing off off my sensei, and it skips tracking sometimes.

so im in between a sensei (raw perhaps) or the zowie fk.


----------



## blainemono

The shape of FK (and actually the whole mouse) is very overrated by people on this forum. I'd say it's one of the worst shapes around. And I say this because this is the first time I had cramps after using a mouse (and I used a lot of different mice) . And I get it that shape is subjective thing. But there is a problem: I have small hands and this mouse still cramps my hand because it's too narrow even for me. This shape might be great for people with TINY hands, for every other person it's gonna be an annoying POS.

Apart from many different flaws this mouse has, for me the shape has got to be the biggest let down.


----------



## Coreda

I'm starting to wonder if the people getting cramps are using a palm grip, which wouldn't really suit the mouse as it's designed for a claw grip.

About to order the FK today, and considering I already use a mouse of similar width (roughly 58mm) using a claw grip I have no cramps currently and can imagine the FK will be the same (will be a bit longer though). To give an impression, my thumb and pinky fingers rest on the sides of the mouse bent in this shape: < [] > (the rectangle area being the mouse).

Does anyone get cramps using a craw grip on the FK?


----------



## Kyal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if the people getting cramps are using a palm grip, which wouldn't really suit the mouse as it's designed for a claw grip.
> 
> About to order the FK today, and considering I already use a mouse of similar width (roughly 58mm) using a claw grip I have no cramps currently and can imagine the FK will be the same (will be a bit longer though). To give an impression, my thumb and pinky fingers rest on the sides of the mouse bent in this shape: < [] > (the rectangle area being the mouse).
> 
> Does anyone get cramps using a craw grip on the FK?


i sometimes claw my fk and no cramps here, although i have fairly small hands.


----------



## defury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if the people getting cramps are using a palm grip, which wouldn't really suit the mouse as it's designed for a claw grip.
> 
> About to order the FK today, and considering I already use a mouse of similar width (roughly 58mm) using a claw grip I have no cramps currently and can imagine the FK will be the same (will be a bit longer though). To give an impression, my thumb and pinky fingers rest on the sides of the mouse bent in this shape: < [] > (the rectangle area being the mouse).
> 
> Does anyone get cramps using a craw grip on the FK?


Can confirm I sort of palm the FK, a hybrid palm/fingertip. Honestly wasn't really aware it was a claw grip mouse until after I bought it. I mostly palm it because of my small hands but i've gone back to fingertip/palm grip on the spawn/sensei for now, might pick up a rival or the new CM storm mouse.

The thing that confuses me is I used a Kana prior to the FK, the Kana is almost the same width and the TTC switches are much stiffer, I didn't think the slightly narrower FK would cause such problems.


----------



## Coreda

Newly arrived Zowie FK! Just posted my fairly long review of the mouse here. Includes my impressions on the size, and other things that concerned me prior to purchase.




Basic summary: I really like it, although there are some things to consider regarding the size, switches, and colored surfaces that can be used. Also excuse the large images


----------



## Tsubakii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Newly arrived Zowie FK! Just posted my fairly long review of the mouse here. Includes my impressions on the size, and other things that concerned me prior to purchase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basic summary: I really like it, although there are some things to consider regarding the size, switches, and colored surfaces that can be used. Also excuse the large images


it was meant to be gripped with your middle finger or ring finger holding the top right for control

if the person who designed the shape means anything


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsubakii*
> 
> it was meant to be gripped with your middle finger or ring finger holding the top right for control
> 
> if the person who designed the shape means anything


That is how I'm gripping it, with my ring finger and thumb. Middle finger would be way too awkward personally.


----------



## wein07

Just ordered this mouse. Was either the Recon or this. Been reading quite a few pages from 140+. Is it a good general idea to start from 2300, 1000hz DPI 3/11 out of the box? For someone who is used to a 400 DPI 6/11. Thanks.


----------



## Makav3li

What's the deal with best performance at 500hz. I must have missed where that was proven. What's the reason?


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> What's the deal with best performance at 500hz. I must have missed where that was proven. What's the reason?


higher perfect control speed at 500hz


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> higher perfect control speed at 500hz


Only at 1150 and 450 dpi. 2300 dpi remains pretty much the same.


----------



## Andre4s

Tt eSPORTS Galeru about that somebody can say something?


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> Tt eSPORTS Galeru about that somebody can say something?


is that supposed to be an english sentence we are supposed to decipher?


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> is that supposed to be an english sentence we are supposed to decipher?


I'm sure he's just asking for some feedback on the Tt eSPORTS Galeru mouse bungee.


----------



## Andre4s

Ookey, it's simple - Tt eSPORTS Galeru, good or bad?


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Only at 1150 and 450 dpi. 2300 dpi remains pretty much the same.


Could you link me to the testing? Thanks.


----------



## akeefe03

I have a really strange problem I am hoping some of you guys might be able to help me with. I bought the Zowie FK 2 months, and up until about a week ago, it worked just great on my QCK Heavy mousepad. Now the tracking is screwed up on my QCK Heavy. The cursor movement is slow and choppy. It's not tracking well at all. The weird thing though is that the mouse works just fine on a different mousepad that I tested. I have 2 QCK Heavy's that I tested it on and the mouse is screwed up on them both. They are not dirty at all. What is going on here???


----------



## 15130

I just had a look around for this mousepad and there seems to be a few people having the same issue as you.
I know it sometimes happens with certains cloth mousepad/mice combination, but I never had any issues of this kind before, I guess you're just unlucky.


----------



## MLJS54

Does anyone know if the Zowie FKs in stock on Amazon are the 2014 editions?


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Does anyone know if the Zowie FKs in stock on Amazon are the 2014 editions?


I got mines from amazon and it was 2014 edition. Also just to let you know I'm sending mines back for the same issue with the ec evo cl mice where the coating starts cracking and peeling. Going to give the Rival another chance.


----------



## 15130

How can you check ? Does it says so somewhere on the mouse itself ? And what is the difference ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *15130*
> 
> How can you check ? Does it says so somewhere on the mouse itself ? And what is the difference ?


2014 has:

Black bottom
IR-LED
24 notch wheel

Older had:

Yellow bottom
Red LED
16 notch wheel

Then there are some transitional units that only have IR-LED with yellow bottom and 16 notch wheel (I have one) but those shouldn't be around anymore.


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *15130*
> 
> How can you check ? Does it says so somewhere on the mouse itself ? And what is the difference ?


To add to what Ino said above, the 2014 packaging has an 'FK 14' sticker on the front of the box.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Does anyone know if the Zowie FKs in stock on Amazon are the 2014 editions?


"
Q: Hi!, ¿Do you have the new version of fk zowie with black base? because it have some upgrades, regards
A:
yes , we only have new version in stock now
"

This is from the seller 3Cworld fulfilled by Amazon. They only have one left though.


----------



## Andre4s

mouse is not bad, but often push the right button by accident = (. And even occasionally on the right side button


----------



## ich1ban

I don't think the IR-LED provides any advantages over the original sensor with the red light, is it a marketing gimmick or what?


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I don't think the IR-LED provides any advantages over the original sensor with the red light, is it a marketing gimmick or what?


Look at that.


----------



## Andre4s

how to change hertz, hold the key and nothing. =) Upd: I know how


----------



## Diogenes5

After using the last year's version for a year now, I have to say I despise the coating on this thing. It now sticks to my hand for some reason because I think a layer of it has worn off. I'm hoping they come out with a CL version soon. Not going to rebuy for the same shell.


----------



## ich1ban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Look at that.


Woah those are some impressive numbers, still can't really believe some tests by Enotus though.

My current Zowie FK doesn't really track well on any mousepads but pure black ones, it can barely track on the fnatic QCK+ and if I had to give it a number i'd probably say 1m/s on that pad.


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> After using the last year's version for a year now, I have to say I despise the coating on this thing. It now sticks to my hand for some reason because I think a layer of it has worn off. I'm hoping they come out with a CL version soon. Not going to rebuy for the same shell.


I haven't experienced any wearing off yet, but I agree that the surface is the worst thing about the mouse, although for different reasons.

The mouse requires constant attention to wipe the surface free of finger marks, as it absorbs _everything_, even with freshly washed hands. I don't even think about using the mouse until I've washed my hands immediately before use, and even then it's annoying to have to baby the finish like this.

Improving the surface to something less absorbent should be one of the first things Zowie should consider in their next iteration (if they continue the series).


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> After using the last year's version for a year now, I have to say I despise the coating on this thing. It now sticks to my hand for some reason because I think a layer of it has worn off. I'm hoping they come out with a CL version soon. Not going to rebuy for the same shell.


The purpose of the CL version was to have the same coating on the EVO as the FK.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Woah those are some impressive numbers, still can't really believe some tests by Enotus though.
> 
> My current Zowie FK doesn't really track well on any mousepads but pure black ones, it can barely track on the fnatic QCK+ and if I had to give it a number i'd probably say 1m/s on that pad.


I have qck and sometimes hangs for half a second


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Woah those are some impressive numbers, still can't really believe some tests by Enotus though.
> 
> My current Zowie FK doesn't really track well on any mousepads but pure black ones, it can barely track on the fnatic QCK+ and if I had to give it a number i'd probably say 1m/s on that pad.


You can trust me. I use FK with 1150 dpi & 500Hz. I play with it in CSGO with sensivity 0.5... I think with these settings my FK has mpcs ~3.10 m/s. Prism on lens decrease mpcs and prevents the mouse work properly on different mousepads. Remove it and you'll see. But LOD to be a bit higher.


----------



## Andre4s

dpi on mouse - 1150


----------



## bvazx

Nice joke.
First of all replace RED-Led with IR-Led (I did that with GNL-5013IRAB-1).
Then remove prism and do tests right.


----------



## Andre4s

lol,this? -


----------



## bvazx

Yes, it's.

It's simple to remove. It is not glued. You can put it back, if you need it.


----------



## Andre4s

that it is not easy)I'm afraid to apply excessive force


----------



## Andre4s

it is necessary to disassemble the mouse?


----------



## bvazx

If you want to get the better performance (maximum perfect control speed on different surfaces), you need to modify FK (first version).
This is my mouse. It's work nice.
Some photos.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Removing of the prism (it's not glued)




IR-Led GNL-5013IRAB-1


*First of all, you'll lose your warranty when modify your Zowie FK!!!
If you are not confident in your abilities, you haven't to modify the mouse!!!
Whatever you do, you do at your own responsibility!!!
If you break your Zowie FK, I am not responsible for that.
And finally, if my warnings do not stop you, you must do all very carefully, deliberately and leisurely when removing your prism from the lens and replacing your RED-Led!!!*


----------



## ich1ban

Contemplating getting the new zowie FK, wouldn't mind another one if the IR-LED is genuinely better tracking.

I don't ever hit malfunction speed on my artisan hayate or steelseries NP+ anyways, i don't really want to modify the lens that you've done, looks like you snapped off a bit of it that makes the LOD extremely low?


----------



## bvazx

If do all very carefully, deliberately and leisurely the prism is removed and put back simply. After this modification of lens LOD is a bit higher.


----------



## Andre4s

also replaced the bulb?I have no other light bulbs ....


----------



## bvazx

Yes. I replaced RED-Led to IR-Led.
Learn this, then this.
You need to purchase IR-Led with properties like RED-Led "HLMP-EG3E" has.
Then you can change RED-Led "HLMP-EG3E" to your IR-Led.
I replaced RED-Led "HLMP-EG3E" to IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1".


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Yes. I replaced RED-Led to IR-Led.
> Learn this.
> You need to purchase IR-Led with properties like HLMP-EG3E has.
> Then you can replace HLMP-EG3E to IR-Led.
> I replaced RED-Led (HLMP-EG3E) to IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1".


but just can not remove? without replacement?


----------



## bvazx

*YES. YOU HAVE TO REPLACE OR DO NOTHING!!!*
If you only remove the prism FK will work a bit better on some mousepads and a bit higher will be LOD.


----------



## Andre4s

I'm an idiot, damaged prism. Where I can get such a thing - http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/350x700px-LL-c13222a6_IMG_20140222_174404.jpeg

IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1 - worth $ 50?


----------



## bvazx

Don't worry about it. If your lens is ok you can use the mouse and be happy.
Only LOD will be a bit higher and mouse will be work better.
P.S.: I warned you to be careful. I use my mouse without the prism and i'm happy.









TEN IR-Leds "GNL-5013IRAB-1" cost about ONE EURO in my country.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Don't worry about it. If your lens is ok you can use the mouse and be happy. Only LOD will be a bit higher and mouse will be work better.
> P.S.: I warned you to be careful. I use my mouse without the prism and i'm happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEN IR-Leds "GNL-5013IRAB-1" cost about ONE EURO in my country.


as you can without prism?? ..need a replacement, may be cheap mouses have the same?
Prompt online shop from your home country.I do not work without a prism

how do you can damage the lens if it is in the armor


----------



## bvazx

Yes, I can use my mouse without the prism on the lens.
YOU DON'T DAMAGE THE LENS WHEN YOU'LL USE IT WITHOUT THE PRISM.








After many tests I can say that the prism is not needed at all. It do one thing - IT DO LOD A BIT LOWER. Without it the mouse worts better on various mousepads.
Only Zowie uses custom lens with prism. I think you don't find it in any other mice.
I repeat you, you can simply use your FK without the prism.
I bought IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1" here. The page of IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1".
I think this shop don't send parcels to other countries. But you can try to buy.
Manufacturer website of IR-Led "GNL-5013IRAB-1".


----------



## Andre4s

[quote name="bvazx" url="/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1870#post_21832819"
I repeat you, you can simply use your FK without the prism.
[/quote]
How? shee too high
And its not 1 euro
put the lens of genius netscroll 100, approached but did not work
sold separately maybe?
I'm confused all I need a lens


----------



## bvazx

Do photos of your prism and lens and post them here...


----------



## Wall Street

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> How? shee too high
> And its not 1 euro
> put the lens of genius netscroll 100, approached but did not work
> sold separately maybe?
> I'm confused all I need a lens


Andea4s, it seems that English is not your first language. There are two separate items that are being talked about here:

1. The prism. This is a clear plastic part that diffracts light within the mouse. This can be removed and the mouse will still work. The prism cannot be purchased separately from the mouse

2. The LED. This is the light inside of the mouse. The mouse will not work without an LED. LEDs cost about 1 euro.

I think that you are confusing the prism and the LED. They are different parts.

EDIT:

Each mouse also has a lens which is the part below the sensor. The lens is different than the prism. A mouse will not work without a lens.


----------



## Andre4s

I do not know why but -


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wall Street*
> 
> Andea4s, it seems that English is not your first language. There are two separate items that are being talked about here:
> 
> 1. The prism. This is a clear plastic part that diffracts light within the mouse. This can be removed and the mouse will still work. The prism cannot be purchased separately from the mouse
> 
> 2. The LED. This is the light inside of the mouse. The mouse will not work without an LED. LEDs cost about 1 euro.
> 
> I think that you are confusing the prism and the LED. They are different parts.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Each mouse also has a lens which is the part below the sensor. The lens is different than the prism. A mouse will not work without a lens.


yes sorry for my language. And you can see how far here? it does not reach the mouse pad - http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1903836/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL


----------



## bvazx

Simply remove the prism at all. Be careful.

After viewing your photos I think that your lens is OK, if you didn't damage anything else except the prism.


----------



## Andre4s

Wow!why do you say it is not immediatel!very clear. it's work. Finally I realized that such a prism and lens. Just click now worse.


----------



## bvazx

I thought you would understand what you needed to do... But you didn't.
Take your time and assemble your mouse correctly. The click would be clear.


----------



## Andre4s

hard anyway. we must find a balance


----------



## Coreda

This prism removal could probably be a thread in itself


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

If anyone could answer a quick question for me I'd really appreciate it. How do you clean the FK? I'm worried about using something stringent like isopropyl alcohol or window cleaner because of the rubberized coating.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> This prism removal could probably be a thread in itself


Im getting staircase effect in paint, using 2300 dpi setting. Or does it only work with IR LED ?


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> Im getting staircase effect in paint, using 2300 dpi setting. Or does it only work with IR LED ?


I haven't seen the need to remove the prism on my IR LED version, so I wouldn't know. bvazx seems the resident expert, so he might chime in with some advice


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> Im getting staircase effect in paint, using 2300 dpi setting. Or does it only work with IR LED ?


Don't worry about the staircase effect in Paint. It is present in all mice, more or less.
For example, you can look at reviews by Takasta.


----------



## Andre4s

seems dust falls without prism and control worse. Incidentally scratches are seen here is strongly influenced by on control?


----------



## bvazx

Dust always influence on the work of any mouse, but not strong.
I think the scratches don't influence to work of sensor.


----------



## Andre4s

I think zowie fk picky carpets (I have a bit worn Qck +) general prism is not justified at all removed


----------



## detto87

I'm sorry but I don't understand anything.









But could you please split this topic from this main thread?


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> I think zowie fk picky carpets (I have a bit worn Qck +) general prism is not justified at all removed


Who seeks, always finds. You took experience.
It is a pity that you broke the prism. Otherwise you could retrieve all.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Don't worry about the staircase effect in Paint. It is present in all mice, more or less.
> For example, you can look at reviews by Takasta.


lol no its not. Its almost 7/11 staircase effect (+ it jitters


http://imgur.com/9CSMTxs

)


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> lol no its not. Its almost 7/11 staircase effect (+ it jitters
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/9CSMTxs
> 
> )


how do this test


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> lol no its not. Its almost 7/11 staircase effect (+ it jitters
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/9CSMTxs
> 
> )


I didn't quite understand you. I wrote about jitters.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> how do this test


This is ms paint. (right click on desctop/new Bitmap) Using the pen (select thin line)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> I didn't quite understand you. I wrote about jitters.


I mean with jitter the cursor jumping 1 or 2 pixels to the sides (marked red on my picture) U can see it when moving vertical lines. However on 1150 dpi its all fine. But there are ppl thinking this dpi step has input lag.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> This is ms paint. (right click on desctop/new Bitmap) Using the pen (select thin line)


Jesus


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> I mean with jitter the cursor jumping 1 or 2 pixels to the sides (marked red on my picture) U can see it when moving vertical lines. However on 1150 dpi its all fine. But there are ppl thinking this dpi step has input lag.


Thanks for explanation.
It's my tests of my mod FK with IR-Led.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## e4stw00t

Just ordered the new FK and am asking myself how to clean the little bugger without screwing up the coating. Had a mouse with rubberized coating before and damaged the rubber over time (stupidly enough I cleaned it occasionally using alcohol).

How do you prevent your FK from showing nasty imprints?


----------



## Kand

Cloth, Water and a gentle touch.


----------



## nyshak

I just got the new FK. I've long since used the AM and due to the close shape I could't bother to get the FK. The shape however does make a huge difference for me. It's much easier to pick up and this is not due to the coating. Sensor wise it feels the same and looks the same in paint as the AM did (using a Puretrak Talent here). I don't know if the max tracking speed has been increased or not. With my sens of 30cm/360° I would't notice anyway. So far it's been worth it over the AM due to the shape. If you own an old FK though, I guess this doesn't really make much sense to get. Especially since it's very expensive for a mouse (Zowie price tag).

There is some minor minor jitter @ 1000hz and 2300 DPI, but apart from that nothing wrong with it.


----------



## Andre4s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> I just got the new FK. I've long since used the AM and due to the close shape I could't bother to get the FK. The shape however does make a huge difference for me. It's much easier to pick up and this is not due to the coating. Sensor wise it feels the same and looks the same in paint as the AM did (using a Puretrak Talent here). I don't know if the max tracking speed has been increased or not. With my sens of 30cm/360° I would't notice anyway. So far it's been worth it over the AM due to the shape. If you own an old FK though, I guess this doesn't really make much sense to get. Especially since it's very expensive for a mouse (Zowie price tag).
> 
> There is some minor minor jitter @ 1000hz and 2300 DPI, but apart from that nothing wrong with it.


What mouse pad?


----------



## 15130

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Especially since it's very expensive for a mouse (Zowie price tag).


I don't think it's THAT expensive compared to most other gaming mices (mouses ? I never know this one) on the market, and I may be wrong but I'll always feel more secure paying this price for it than any overly feature packed mouse that fit 5% of people.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *15130*
> 
> I don't think it's THAT expensive compared to most other gaming mices (mouses ? I never know this one) on the market, and I may be wrong but I'll always feel more secure paying this price for it than any overly feature packed mouse that fit 5% of people.


Just "mice"









TBH, I think almost all gaming mice are too expensive, not Zowie alone.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andre4s*
> 
> What mouse pad?


Like I mentioned: Puretrak Talent.


----------



## ich1ban

Just got my Zowie FK2014.

It actually surprised me that the IR-LED now lets me track on my Fnatic QCK+, whereas my FK2013 would skip when it went over the orange parts constantly without even moving it at fast speeds.

Also noticed that the DPI seems to be lower

To do a 450deg turn from left->right on my 45cm mousepad.
Sensitivity:
Zowie AM @450dpi setting: 2.55
Zowie FK2013 @450dpi setting: 2.55
Zowie EC2 eVo @450dpi setting: 2.65
Zowie FK2014 @450dpi setting: 2.7
Steelseries Kana v2 @400dpi setting: 3.3


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Just got my Zowie FK2014.
> 
> It actually surprised me that the IR-LED now lets me track on my Fnatic QCK+, whereas my FK2013 would skip when it went over the orange parts constantly without even moving it at fast speeds.
> 
> Also noticed that the DPI seems to be lower
> 
> To do a 450deg turn from left->right on my 45cm mousepad.
> Sensitivity:
> Zowie AM @450dpi setting: 2.55
> Zowie FK2013 @450dpi setting: 2.55
> Zowie EC2 eVo @450dpi setting: 2.65
> Zowie FK2014 @450dpi setting: 2.7
> Steelseries Kana v2 @400dpi setting: 3.3


is also the ~ 1200 dpi (1150) lower this time?


----------



## ich1ban

Everything is lower than my old 2013FK and AM.


----------



## DivineDark

I really have nothing to complain about with my FK '14 minus the dragging on my mouse pad, and the possibility of the coating wearing out quickly...


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I really have nothing to complain about with my FK '14 minus the dragging on my mouse pad, and the possibility of the coating wearing out quickly...


u could use the extra glide feet so u reduce the drag by making the mouse a bit higher.

not sure about the coating


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> u could use the extra glide feet so u reduce the drag by making the mouse a bit higher.
> 
> not sure about the coating


The dragging doesn't really bother me. It's just really noticeable with rougher textured pads like the Artisan Hayate. As far as the coating goes. I'm not really sure what to think. Supposedly the coating hasn't changed, but there are people reporting that their '14 FK's are starting to peel.


----------



## Vitaminx

I recently purchased a Zowie FK from Amazon, and I really like the build and feel of the mouse. The only thing that's concerning is the scroll wheel. If I scroll down slowly, everything is fine. But scrolling up slowly is when there is an issue. If I scroll up one step, the computer doesn't recognize this until I scroll up another step. At this point in time the scroll bar will scroll up twice. This can probably become an annoying nuisance. I'm wondering if anyone else experiences this or if mine has a possible defect?


----------



## Coreda

Sounds like a defect. I have no such problem scrolling one step up or down, or with scrolling in general. It might also be some software conflict, etc.


----------



## Vitaminx

Did you order yours in 2014?


----------



## Coreda

Yes, I have the 2014 version. There's also a link to my review of it a few pages back.

Are you running Autohotkey or any other apps in the background that may be interfering?


----------



## Vitaminx

Not that I'm aware of. I did just read this review on amazon however:

Mouse is very nice... Fit my hand nicely and the clicking feel of the mouse buttons were good for my liking, though the scroll wheels of these 2014 versions are not right. They don't register the scrolling action properly. I've had 2 of them because I thought mine was defective and requested a replacement. Turned out that all of them are like that. Just sent it back and got a refund, what a pity for these once awesome mouses...

Sounds similar to my issue. I'll keep trying to see if I can correct the problem. If not I'll send it back for a refund. I really do like this mouse though, just this scroll wheel is acting up.


----------



## ChronoBodi

is there even a Zowie with 3310 sensor like the SS Rival and Mionix Avior/Naos 7000?

just curious.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> is there even a Zowie with 3310 sensor like the SS Rival and Mionix Avior/Naos 7000?
> 
> just curious.


Nope, but it would make sense for them to start switching over. With the 3310 there's no more need for a custom lens with funky recalculated DPI steps to achieve low LOD.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Nope, but it would make sense for them to start switching over. With the 3310 there's no more need for a custom lens with funky recalculated DPI steps to achieve low LOD.


Seriously? all that trouble on the 3090 sensor to get low LOD?

Is the Mionix Avior 7000 the only mouse that can adjust LOD from software? i'm just wondering btw?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Seriously? all that trouble on the 3090 sensor to get low LOD?
> 
> Is the Mionix Avior 7000 the only mouse that can adjust LOD from software? i'm just wondering btw?


Definitely not. However, laser mice make up most of the adjustable LOD mice in the market. I think the DA 2013 might have a manual adjustment but I forget. Optical mice with adjustable LOD is fairly rare however in general since the 3090 never exposed that setting, it might not even be something you can tune on the sensor module itself. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Where is Skylit, seriously? I don't want to be his replacement. I don't know anywhere near as much as he did.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Seriously? all that trouble on the 3090 sensor to get low LOD?
> 
> Is the Mionix Avior 7000 the only mouse that can adjust LOD from software? i'm just wondering btw?


Both Mionix 7000 series mice offer it.

Zowie made a lot of sacrifices for very low LOD and now that niche will soon be gone. But based on them just now releasing '14 branded models with minor tweaks it doesn't look likely that they'll be embracing the 3310 any time soon.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Both Mionix 7000 series mice offer it.
> 
> Zowie made a lot of sacrifices for very low LOD and now that niche will soon be gone. But based on them just now releasing '14 branded models with minor tweaks it doesn't look likely that they'll be embracing the 3310 any time soon.


What sacrifices? like the shape of it, no DPI buttons? eh im confused.

Zowie has to make a 3310 mouse, is it just too expensive to make them, because there's $60 minimum for a 3310 in the Rival, and that had build quality issues.

Also, if the 3310 sensor can do adjustable LOD, does that mean the actual sensor lens move up and down or is it all in software?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> What sacrifices? like the shape of it, no DPI buttons? eh im confused.
> 
> Zowie has to make a 3310 mouse, is it just too expensive to make them, because there's $60 minimum for a 3310 in the Rival, and that had build quality issues.
> 
> Also, if the 3310 sensor can do adjustable LOD, does that mean the actual sensor lens move up and down or is it all in software?


The LOD is on the hardware level. It's probably a slight adjustment in the current sent to the illumination (IR LED in this case). That's my guess, but it's definitely not just software. The software sets the hardware to do it, but the hardware handles the real implementation of LOD.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> What sacrifices? like the shape of it, no DPI buttons? eh im confused.
> 
> Zowie has to make a 3310 mouse, is it just too expensive to make them, because there's $60 minimum for a 3310 in the Rival, and that had build quality issues.
> 
> Also, if the 3310 sensor can do adjustable LOD, does that mean the actual sensor lens move up and down or is it all in software?


The sacrifice that they made was in their lens. It caused weird DPI steps and lower than normal perfect control levels than with the Avago lens on the 3090.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The sacrifice that they made was in their lens. It caused weird DPI steps and lower than normal perfect control levels than with the Avago lens on the 3090.


Which is now pointless that the 3310 can do low LOD and is adjustable anyway.

Is Zowie even going to move to 3310 or not for a while?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Which is now pointless that the 3310 can do low LOD and is adjustable anyway.
> 
> Is Zowie even going to move to 3310 or not for a while?


They are a very small company without a lot of capital. I can't imagine they'll move to the 3310 platform until it becomes economical to refresh more than one line of their mice so they can buy it in a larger quantity.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> They are a very small company without a lot of capital. I can't imagine they'll move to the 3310 platform until it becomes economical to refresh more than one line of their mice so they can buy it in a larger quantity.


Ah interesting.... do they sell anything besides mice?

Mionix selling headsets and mech keyboards probably explains how they can get 3310s early.

Edit: nvm, zowie do sell keyboards and headsets too, so maybe Mionix just gambled on getting 3310s early or had angel investors or something. Eh, what do i know about business.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> Ah interesting.... do they sell anything besides mice?
> 
> Mionix selling headsets and mech keyboards probably explains how they can get 3310s early.
> 
> Edit: nvm, zowie do sell keyboards and headsets too, so maybe Mionix just gambled on getting 3310s early or had angel investors or something. Eh, what do i know about business.


Actually, Mionix is a pretty substantial company in Sweden from what I hear. Zowie is a for gamers, by gamers company that relies on sponserships and input from famous CS/Quake gamers for their marketing.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Actually, Mionix is a pretty substantial company in Sweden from what I hear. Zowie is a for gamers, by gamers company that relies on sponserships and input from famous CS/Quake gamers for their marketing.


Huh, only in Sweden. They need more exposure in USA for sure. That explains Zowie then in terms of financials.


----------



## acid_reptile

Im getting a used FK soon. Probably without spare mousefeets.

Where to get them? I only found an ebay seller from Hong Kong.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> Im getting a used FK soon. Probably without spare mousefeeds.
> 
> Where to get them? I only found an ebay seller from Hong Kong.


The mouse feet?


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The mouse feet?


Oh yes. edited


----------



## e4stw00t

I am a bit torn in between purchasing the new FK or the evo cl. Since I play quiet some rts and mobas I have some (minor) concerns when it comes to the switches.

Apparently they feel quiet different in between the individual Zowie mice, so could someone give me some thoughts on the stiffness (and possibility to high frequently press the buttons) in between the FK and evo cl?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> I am a bit torn in between purchasing the new FK or the evo cl. Since I play quiet some rts and mobas I have some (minor) concerns when it comes to the switches.
> 
> Apparently they feel quiet different in between the individual Zowie mice, so could someone give me some thoughts on the stiffness (and possibility to high frequently press the buttons) in between the FK and evo cl?


The EVO will have a longer lever on the switches, so they are much easier to click. The FK is a smaller more rigid shell and the mouse clicks are stiffer and more pronounced.

I've never had an issue with Huano switches after I got used to them on either mouse, but it's like mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Black switches. You have to adjust to them, allow yourself that time, otherwise you'll hate them.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> I am a bit torn in between purchasing the new FK or the evo cl. Since I play quiet some rts and mobas I have some (minor) concerns when it comes to the switches.
> 
> Apparently they feel quiet different in between the individual Zowie mice, so could someone give me some thoughts on the stiffness (and possibility to high frequently press the buttons) in between the FK and evo cl?


The Evo is easier to click due to the greater lever length of the shell. However, still fairly stiff if you are use to omrons.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The EVO will have a longer lever on the switches, so they are much easier to click. The FK is a smaller more rigid shell and the mouse clicks are stiffer and more pronounced.
> 
> I've never had an issue with Huano switches after I got used to them on either mouse, but it's like mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Black switches. You have to adjust to them, allow yourself that time, otherwise you'll hate them.


This is true, but for a game like moba or RTS, I don't think you should put up with that nonsense. I have 250 APM in SC2 and the stiff Huano switches made my fingers sore even after a little bit. I had to mod my mouse to make it right.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> The Evo is easier to click due to the greater lever length of the shell. However, still fairly stiff if you are use to omrons.
> This is true, but for a game like moba or RTS, I don't think you should put up with that nonsense. I have 250 APM in SC2 and the stiff Huano switches made my fingers sore even after a little bit. I had to mod my mouse to make it right.


Okay then I probably have to stick to a mouse with Omron switches. Just can't stand regular 3090s like the G400s.

Probably have to wait till Roccat offers the Kone Pure Optical Military later this year - tested the Rival but couldn't get used to its shape.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> The Evo is easier to click due to the greater lever length of the shell. However, still fairly stiff if you are use to omrons.
> This is true, but for a game like moba or RTS, I don't think you should put up with that nonsense. I have 250 APM in SC2 and the stiff Huano switches made my fingers sore even after a little bit. I had to mod my mouse to make it right.


I've seen a few people do the switch mod on the AM and FK. I've never found it necessary myself, but I may do it as a project down the line. God knows I have enough junk mice to donate their switches. I actually have a dead sensei that is just waiting on my work bench.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Okay then I probably have to stick to a mouse with Omron switches. Just can't stand regular 3090s like the G400s.
> 
> Probably have to wait till Roccat offers the Kone Pure Optical Military later this year - tested the Rival but couldn't get used to its shape.


I myself gamed on an Mx518 (Predecessor to G400 with exact same shape) for many many years not knowing how bad a palm grip was for me. I'm actually more of a claw gripper and the g400 shell was really bad for me.

I think the FK is pretty much perfect except for the switches. And maybe others can use them better than me. I'm to the point where not even non-Japanese Omrons can satisfy me anymore. I have like 20 extra japanese omrons I bought from omron lying in a bag inside my drawer so that I can mod any mouse I get to suit me. You could try out the FK from amazon and see if you can live with the switches. If not, the Kana v2 seems like a great mouse too and has omrons and a similar shape.

If you can't wait, depending on your preference for shell; the Kana v2 and CM Storm Spawn are the best alternatives to the FK. If you like the Evo CL, the shape is similar to the death adder which is a fine mouse (Don't get the crap new one; get a black edition). I think I the corsair m30 and m40 are pretty good too and have the same palming ergonomics of the Evo CL. These all use omrons and good optical sensors. I like the Rocca stuff ok but the cover they use is kind of too grainy for my tastes though it grips very well.


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Supposedly the coating hasn't changed, but there are people reporting that their '14 FK's are starting to peel.


You can now count me as one of them, sadly.

Amazed that in a single month little ~1mm flaps are appearing on the back of the 2014 FK, including a small line on the very back lip that I noticed today. Very disappointed in Zowie's quality control here









Otherwise was shaping up to be a great mouse from my experience with it (apart from my criticisms of the absorbent finish).


----------



## ich1ban

That's unfortunate, Well if anything happened to mine I think I'll just replace it with the shell of the 2013FK


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> That's unfortunate, Well if anything happened to mine I think I'll just replace it with the shell of the 2013FK


Did the 2013 version have a more resilient coating?


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> You can now count me as one of them, sadly.
> 
> Amazed that in a single month little ~1mm flaps are appearing on the back of the 2014 FK, including a small line on the very back lip that I noticed today. Very disappointed in Zowie's quality control here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise was shaping up to be a great mouse from my experience with it (apart from my criticisms of the absorbent finish).


NOooOOoOOoooOOo, what to do now, ive been waiting for this mouse to come to europe and now the coating sucks :S

pff. better start looking for anoter mouse, cmstorm new mouse maybe, its not ambidextrous though.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> That's unfortunate, Well if anything happened to mine I think I'll just replace it with the shell of the 2013FK


should i buy the 1013 in europe now that we still can?


----------



## ich1ban

No issues with my 2014FK, the coating on mine looks/feels identical to the 2013.

I'd get the 2014 if I were to purchase a brand new one, IR-LED gives me higher malfunction speed and I'm now able to use it on coloured surfaces such as the QcK+ Fnatic without any issues whereas my older 2013FK would not track at all on the orange parts without moving it fast at all.

Furthermore the scroll wheel is smoother and preferred by a majority of people.

Other than that, no differences at all.


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> No issues with my 2014FK, the coating on mine looks/feels identical to the 2013.
> 
> I'd get the 2014 if I were to purchase a brand new one, IR-LED gives me higher malfunction speed and I'm now able to use it on coloured surfaces such as the QcK+ Fnatic without any issues whereas my older 2013FK would not track at all on the orange parts without moving it fast at all.
> 
> Furthermore the scroll wheel is smoother and preferred by a majority of people.
> 
> Other than that, no differences at all.


ok, ill get the new one once its available EU


----------



## acid_reptile

Can i use "Speedy Skatez-AM" for the zowie FK? Are they as thin as the stock feet?


----------



## e4stw00t

The AM skatez work indeed also for the FK. I have them at home but not in use so far, so I can't give you details on how (if) they alter the gliding of the mouse itself or add significant height (I doubt from the looks of it).


----------



## encoreAC

Hello guys,
I considering getting the Zowie FK. How does it compare to the Kana v2 in size and form?
Thanks!


----------



## acid_reptile

Ah should have tried the mouse ingame before ordering the skates xd. Not sure about the shape now. Somehow my pinky feels like theres not enough space.. Probably bcs i got used to the kinzu shape and theres plenty of space for it. Anyway.. i knew i couldn't use this mouse with the sidebuttons on the right side. Using the AM without the sidebuttons kind of worked (i fixed them on the right side and removed them on the left) I'll give it another try when i get the new skates and im able to open it + pix the buttons


----------



## lifesosian

anyone mind doing a summary for me about this mice.
also how does the 2013 version differs from the 2014 in terms of performance? does the IR LED makes a difference?
i heard theres noticeable input lag at 450dpi and is that problem also in the 2013 version as well as zowie AM?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lifesosian*
> 
> anyone mind doing a summary for me about this mice.
> also how does the 2013 version differs from the 2014 in terms of performance? does the IR LED makes a difference?
> i heard theres noticeable input lag at 450dpi and is that problem also in the 2013 version as well as zowie AM?


The '14 FK has an IR-LED and an altered scroll wheel with more positions.

The IR-LED is said to alter tracking slightly with some reporting higher perfect control speeds and less picky surface requirements as stated above.

As for input lag. It really depends on how sensitive you are to it. Supposedly there is some minor input lag on the 1150 setting, but it works perfectly fine for me and has never impacted my in game performance. It's supposedly worse at 450, but if you don't notice it, then you're all good.


----------



## Coreda

As for the general 'lag' issue that's spread about from poster to poster here, I found a summary of what the possible cause may be courtesy of a user on another forum. Seems to be related to interpolation, if this info is correct.
Quote:


> Zowie mice suffer from a bit of an issue regarding the sensor and it's use of non-native DPI steps. For the Avago 3090 sensor, native DPI steps as previously mentioned are 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 (although Avago has done some SROM updates, it might be 800 / 1600 / 3200 / 4000 now, but that's a little irrelevant). To achieve non-native DPI steps (450 / 1150 / 2300), the mouse sensor has to be interpolated, meaning additional calculations must be made to achieve these DPIs. With these extra processes, there is the addition of a minute amount of latency (while I can't pull an exact measurement off the top of my head, just imagine playing with 1-2 extra ping, in the same vein of monitor response time). Note that this is quite minimal, and the majority of owners on threads discussing this state that even with such an effect present, no difference can be noticed in control of general movement. I believe the 2300 DPI step is the best at reducing this latency, but unfortunately the higher DPI comes with notable jitter, as with most mice, so most users stick with the lower steps.
> 
> So! Overall, Zowie make extremely solid mice. The sensor issue is quite minimal, the only reason to avoid would be if you are extremely picky about sensor performance, but even then I'd say go ahead and try one of their mice for yourselves anyways, again this latency is hardly/not noticeable for the large majority (and you're still getting a flawless sensor). Hopefully this explanation helps, apologies for the wall of text.


I wish OCN had more of a culture of the OP of OT threads like this one keeping the first post updated. So many major threads on OCN lack basic, solid info on the products they are about


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> As for the general 'lag' issue that's spread about from poster to poster here, I found a summary of what the possible cause may be courtesy of a user on another forum. Seems to be related to interpolation, if this info is correct.
> I wish OCN had more of a culture of the OP of OT threads like this one keeping the first post updated. So many major threads on OCN lack basic, solid info on the products they are about


The Zowie DPI steps being unconventional and inconsistent are due to magnification from the custom lens they use. The 2300 step is really 1800 native, though the other two are interpolated from that step and are theoretically not as responsive.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> The Zowie DPI steps being unconventional and inconsistent are due to magnification from the custom lens they use. The 2300 step is really 1800 native, though the other two are interpolated from that step and are theoretically not as responsive.


This is true, but very few people report the lower steps as being a problem. As I stated above, I use the 1150 step and it's perfectly functional for me. I couldn't complain about any impact on performance.


----------



## EliteReplay

Hi,

i have a Kinzu V2 i like that is very small and like the way i can move the mouse and also like the shape
with that being said
would the FK be a good replacement or should i concider the EC-2 evo?

thanks


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i have a Kinzu V2 i like that is very small and like the way i can move the mouse and also like the shape
> with that being said
> would the FK be a good replacement or should i concider the EC-2 evo?
> 
> thanks


A friend of mine used the Kinzu v2 too for quite some time and recently switched to the FK. He couldn't be happier he said.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> A friend of mine used the Kinzu v2 too for quite some time and recently switched to the FK. He couldn't be happier he said.


thanks man, i think i will be getting that mouse, what i dont like is the cost/// $60dollars when i paid $30 for my kinzu V2 being almost the same bracket of mouse.


----------



## boOzy

So i just ordered the FK 2014 after my Abyssus finally started to break down. I've been quite happy using it with claw grip. Have to say i'm little bit nervous after reading all the random posts like it not working with QCK Heavy and so on. All i want is solid 450 and 500Hz.


----------



## Sencha

QCK heavy.....that's the best pad for IMO with great tracking.


----------



## lakair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i have a Kinzu V2 i like that is very small and like the way i can move the mouse and also like the shape
> with that being said
> would the FK be a good replacement or should i concider the EC-2 evo?
> 
> thanks


I use Kinzu v2 for quakelive and Zowie FK for cs:go. Both are excellent mice, the FK is longer, a bit heavier and the smoother shape of it's sides is less grippy. The width and height of the mice is very similar.


----------



## lakair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> So i just ordered the FK 2014 after my Abyssus finally started to break down. I've been quite happy using it with claw grip. Have to say i'm little bit nervous after reading all the random posts like it not working with QCK Heavy and so on. All i want is solid 450 and 500Hz.


I use a Zowie FK with a Qck+ and it works perfectly. I think you may find the LOD of the FK is very different coming from an abyssus. I have never used an abyssus but apparently the LOD is quite high, the FK's LOD is very low.


----------



## boOzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lakair*
> 
> I use a Zowie FK with a Qck+ and it works perfectly. I think you may find the LOD of the FK is very different coming from an abyssus. I have never used an abyssus but apparently the LOD is quite high, the FK's LOD is very low.


Well that's only a good thing







I have experience of low LOD mice from the past.


----------



## MLJS54

Has anyone bought aftermarket sleek skates for the FK? I would love something like Hyperglides.


----------



## Makav3li

My FK that I use with a Func XL does not work on my QCK Heavy. The mouse will stop tracking and lag on it. It may be because in order to get the mouse body not to rub on my Func XL I put the replacement feet over the stock feet.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> My FK that I use with a Func XL does not work on my QCK Heavy. The mouse will stop tracking and lag on it. It may be because in order to get the mouse body not to rub on my Func XL I put the replacement feet over the stock feet.


That is probably the cause, LOD is super low on Qck with mine too. But it works flawlessly with just the normal skates.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lakair*
> 
> I use Kinzu v2 for quakelive and Zowie FK for cs:go. Both are excellent mice, the FK is longer, a bit heavier and the smoother shape of it's sides is less grippy. The width and height of the mice is very similar.


so its recommended to get the FK?? how much do you think the click bottons will wore off? my kinzy left click is sticky after just 1year of use.


----------



## lakair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> so its recommended to get the FK?? how much do you think the click bottons will wore off? my kinzy left click is sticky after just 1year of use.


umm... I bought three spare kinzu v2 mice because I find them perfect for quakelive, I would not use the FK for this game, for me the lightness, shorter shape and extra grip of the kinzu is just too good. In CS:GO however I find it much easier to headshot with the FK, it slides so nicely and the weight and size feel perfect to me in that game.

If you really like Kinzu v2 buy another one.


----------



## boOzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> So i just ordered the FK 2014 after my Abyssus finally started to break down. I've been quite happy using it with claw grip. Have to say i'm little bit nervous after reading all the random posts like it not working with QCK Heavy and so on. All i want is solid 450 and 500Hz.


Ok to answer myself after deathmatching with the FK for a few hours. My worries were pointless it seems. I already love everything about this mouse. The shape is amazing for my grip. I think the clicks are best i've ever tried, so precise compared to Razer's mushy clicks. Logitech has weird ones too where tapping in CS is very hard for some reason. Tracking seems flawless at 450 dpi and 500Hz (All i tested and will need anyway) Coating is huge improvement over Abyssus's glossy sides. What more can i say. I instantly fell in love with this one. Just for preference, i have played fps games almost exclusively from 2003. Some mice i have owned: Deathadder 3G (the first good one), MX518, G400 V2, Xai, Abyssus, G9x. I think this one takes the n.1 spot easily for years to come


----------



## Makav3li

I've been using 2300 dpi and 0.5 sensitivity in CS:GO with raw input enabled. I chose 2300 dpi because of all the claims on here relating to it being the only native dpi step and that there "may be" something wrong with the implementation of the other steps.

An acquaintance of mine keeps telling me I should switch to 1150 dpi and 1.0 sensitivity in CS:GO and let the mouse hardware drop half the counts rather then rely on the game software to do so. He also says that 2300 dpi has jitter that is worse for my aim than the 1150 dpi step and doesn't lend any credence to the supposed "latency" claims made here. Any truth to what he is saying?

TLDR: Should I change from 2300 dpi 0.5 Sensitivity in CS:GO to 1150 dpi and 1.0 Sensitivity?


----------



## bobsaget

Just go for the settings you're the most comfortable with.

I have been using the two settings you described in cs: go and other games. I can't feel any jitter at 2300 dpi nor the latency at 1150 dpi IG even if some advanced tests can prove both exist.

I have a preference for 1150 dpi /1.0 sensitivy in cs go / raw input / 6/11 in windows though. But it's more a "feeling" and personal thing, nothing related to the issues you describe.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I've been using 2300 dpi and 0.5 sensitivity in CS:GO with raw input enabled. I chose 2300 dpi because of all the claims on here relating to it being the only native dpi step and that there "may be" something wrong with the implementation of the other steps.
> 
> An acquaintance of mine keeps telling me I should switch to 1150 dpi and 1.0 sensitivity in CS:GO and let the mouse hardware drop half the counts rather then rely on the game software to do so. He also says that 2300 dpi has jitter that is worse for my aim than the 1150 dpi step and doesn't lend any credence to the supposed "latency" claims made here. Any truth to what he is saying?
> 
> TLDR: Should I change from 2300 dpi 0.5 Sensitivity in CS:GO to 1150 dpi and 1.0 Sensitivity?


The game doesn't drop counts, just translates them to less distance. You can open up MS paint and use the pencil tool to get a good idea whether you're getting jitter or not. If there's no jitter for you at 2300 it just comes down to which combination feels right to you. Theoretically native DPI is best but it's not a big difference.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> My FK that I use with a Func XL does not work on my QCK Heavy. The mouse will stop tracking and lag on it. It may be because in order to get the mouse body not to rub on my Func XL I put the replacement feet over the stock feet.


Yeah... You can't do that, man. The Zowie lift off distance is already barely there on a black pad. Adding even the slightest lift to it will cause it either to skip or just outright not read at all.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Yeah... You can't do that, man. The Zowie lift off distance is already barely there on a black pad. Adding even the slightest lift to it will cause it either to skip or just outright not read at all.


Well it tracks fine on the hardmat Func XL with the replacement feet over the stock. It just doesn't work on the cloth QCK Heavy.


----------



## RentoN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Well it tracks fine on the hardmat Func XL with the replacement feet over the stock. It just doesn't work on the cloth QCK Heavy.


Different mouse pads can have different LoDs


----------



## 15130

I accidentally squirted a whole bunch of chili sauce onto my FK, more importantly a lot of it dripped into the side buttons. Should I open and clean her up ? I'm affraid there might me a small risk it would cause some damage, but I didn't plan on using my spare teflon things. Also it smells like chili now...


----------



## ich1ban

Yeh open it up, if you can open up your computer case, you can open up your mouse.

And you'll need to remove both the top and bottom feet as there are screws in both.

You can unscrew the top PCB which is connected to the mouse with 2 screws and then wash the whole top shell of the mouse.


----------



## Ufasas

i still got 2 pairs from overclockers dot co dot uk, even if they stopped selling them, and there is one expensive for 7.64 pound on uk ebay


----------



## MLJS54

Asked multiple times - no one has aftermarket fast skates on their FK?


----------



## boOzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Asked multiple times - no one has aftermarket fast skates on their FK?


Why would you need those? The skates are fine and they even give you extra pair.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> Why would you need those? The skates are fine and they even give you extra pair.


Because perhaps I would like something sleeker/faster which is why I'm asking??? Something akin to the Hyperglides I have on my MS mice. Zowie sells "speedy" skates on their EU website but they cost $20 USD shipped to the US.

I don't understand responses like that, but thanks for pointing that all 3 of my Zowie mice came with extra feet, I almost missed it but you were here to save the day!


----------



## MLJS54

double post.


----------



## detto87

There aren't faster skates for it. The speedy skates aren't any faster too IMO. Even the Tiger skates feel the same performance wise.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Just go for the settings you're the most comfortable with.
> 
> I have been using the two settings you described in cs: go and other games. I can't feel any jitter at 2300 dpi nor the latency at 1150 dpi IG even if some advanced tests can prove both exist.
> 
> I have a preference for 1150 dpi /1.0 sensitivy in cs go / raw input / 6/11 in windows though. But it's more a "feeling" and personal thing, nothing related to the issues you describe.


I did some aim map in CSGO with 1150 and 1.0 and can't tell any difference between it and 2300 at 0.5. If there is enough jitter to make a difference in my play at 2300, I don't notice it. If there is some mystery lag at 1150, I don't notice it. I am #1 this month in kills and FPR on aim map on esea so it can't be that bad. I was #3 last month so I'm not terrible at aiming. I notice none of the lag issues certain people have made claims about.


----------



## detto87

No jitter or smoothing in my tests either on sensitivity 1.0 and DPI 450.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> I did some aim map in CSGO with 1150 and 1.0 and can't tell any difference between it and 2300 at 0.5. If there is enough jitter to make a difference in my play at 2300, I don't notice it. If there is some mystery lag at 1150, I don't notice it. I am #1 this month in kills and FPR on aim map on esea so it can't be that bad. I was #3 last month so I'm not terrible at aiming. I notice none of the lag issues certain people have made claims about.


You might as well just use 2300, really. It's only going to give you more granularity and a more raw feel. Jitter isn't a problem on my FK either, especially at the sens I play on.


----------



## wein07

I have been using the FK on only a roccat Taito cloth pad for a month+ now. The stock feet on the FK was super smooth initially. The glide on it with my cloth pad was a bit too smooth but nice. This lasted for maybe 4-5 days of medium usage, and I started to notice drag. I flipped the mouse over and under direct lighting, the feet were clearly scratched. The super smooth outer layer of the feet was gone. I swapped them out for the spare set that came with the mouse and same thing happened.
I brought 2 sets of Tiger mouse feet from takasta on eBay and it was superb. Smooth and controllable glide. Using for close to a month now and it has the same glide from day 1.

Using the FK 2014 btw.


----------



## wein07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You might as well just use 2300, really. It's only going to give you more granularity and a more raw feel. Jitter isn't a problem on my FK either, especially at the sens I play on.


I know it sounds wierd. But on source games like titanfall and CS, I highly prefer to play on 450 DPI over 1150 and 2300. I have tested back and forth on multiple sessions.


----------



## fatfree

All modern Zowie mice (except Mico) have the same sensor and switches, but differ in form and surface materials, do I understand that right?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatfree*
> 
> All modern Zowie mice (except Mico) have the same sensor and switches, but differ in form and surface materials, do I understand that right?


Yes, that's it.


----------



## boOzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wein07*
> 
> I have been using the FK on only a roccat Taito cloth pad for a month+ now. The stock feet on the FK was super smooth initially. The glide on it with my cloth pad was a bit too smooth but nice. This lasted for maybe 4-5 days of medium usage, and I started to notice drag. I flipped the mouse over and under direct lighting, the feet were clearly scratched. The super smooth outer layer of the feet was gone. I swapped them out for the spare set that came with the mouse and same thing happened.
> I brought 2 sets of Tiger mouse feet from takasta on eBay and it was superb. Smooth and controllable glide. Using for close to a month now and it has the same glide from day 1.
> 
> Using the FK 2014 btw.


There must be something wrong with your mousepad. That doesn't sound right.


----------



## wein07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> There must be something wrong with your mousepad. That doesn't sound right.


Doubt it. I've been using the same mousepad for over 4 years with my steelseries kinzu after replacing it with hyperglides from day1.


----------



## Lootskin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wein07*
> 
> Doubt it. I've been using the same mousepad for over 4 years with my steelseries kinzu after replacing it with hyperglides from day1.


Apparently your mousepad has turned into a piece of sandpaper from all the dust that have landed on it over the four years its been used.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> There must be something wrong with your mousepad. That doesn't sound right.


Nah... His mouse pad is probably fine. I received my FK '14 a month ago and it dragged on the mouse pad right out of the box. There's a chance that his mouse feet weren't seated when he first started and as they settled, it started to drag on the pad. There isn't a lot of room for deviation with the FK/AM. Just a minor difference in the mouse feet will either have the mouse dragging or working as intended.


----------



## Krepieresel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Asked multiple times - no one has aftermarket fast skates on their FK?


hey dude

i just got rid of the original zowie skates and put some hyperglides (MS 3.0 glides) on my zowie AM, works perfectly fine for me and they are way faster. did the same on almost every mouse in my arsenal


----------



## juanej

so my scroll wheel failed too, what could be a good alternative to a zowie FK? I'm not going to risk buying another one and getting the problem again


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanej*
> 
> so my scroll wheel failed too, what could be a good alternative to a zowie FK? I'm not going to risk buying another one and getting the problem again


There's not a lot to equate the FK to...

Mionix Avior - Great mouse, excellent sensor, outstanding build quality, MUCH bigger/heavier than the FK
Steelseries Sensei - Good mouse, okay sensor, decent build quality, basically the same shape as the FK, but larger.
Steelseries KANA V2 - Good mouse, great sensor, decent build quality, love it or hate it side buttons and great shape, unfortunately hard to get a hold of...

That's about it... They did redesign the FK for 2014. It has a different scroll wheel and uses a bit different lighting for the sensor. Maybe that would work better for you.


----------



## metal571

A true replaement for the FK...doesn't exist in my opinion. It's too unique in a number of ways.


----------



## wein07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lootskin*
> 
> Apparently your mousepad has turned into a piece of sandpaper from all the dust that have landed on it over the four years its been used.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> A true replaement for the FK...doesn't exist in my opinion. It's too unique in a number of ways.


Hey metal, what's your take on the sensor performance difference between the FK and Avior?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wein07*
> 
> Hey metal, what's your take on the sensor performance difference between the FK and Avior?


Interesting that you ask because a while back when I made my review of the Avior some people asked for a video comparison but it didn't look like much so I haven't made that video.

Anyway, since I own both an FK and the Avior, I can say that I really can't discern the difference in smoothing and latency between the two mice. If it's there, it's so small I don't even notice it. Really the only thing that FK is lacking there is the max PCS which is limited to around 3.5-4 m/s in my own personal Enotus tests. I like the weight and shape a lot, but you did ask about the sensor specifically. The 3090 is a close second to the 3310 as being the best mouse sensor available right now if you ask me. However, what Logitech just released in the G502 could potentially blow away everything forever.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You might as well just use 2300, really. It's only going to give you more granularity and a more raw feel. Jitter isn't a problem on my FK either, especially at the sens I play on.


Yea, after swapping between the two I have settled on 2300dpi 500hz at 0.4 in-game sensitivity. Has never felt better!


----------



## PUKED

e: Nevermind, turns out that this is a very temporary fix.

If anyone else's scrollwheel has started to die, here's how to fix it.

The problem's basically:

1) The scrollwheel's held in place entirely by plastic, which wears down

2) Plastic dust gets all over the optical encoder

Best way to fix it is to clean the inside of the mouse, then find the worn plastic tab on the underside of the top shell around here:



and put something on top of it to reinforce it. I used electrical tape which probably wont last for long, but if you have something better like a small metal clip go for it.

I've had the FK for a year or two and it's definitely my favorite mouse, but for $60 the scrollwheel is really shamefully cheap. Every decent mouse I've taken apart has at least had a spring or a metal assembly keeping the scrollwheel in place.


----------



## Coreda

Good info to know, Puked. I really do think Zowie could put more effort into some of the parts/materials used, although I understand they are a smaller company. Still waiting on my replacement FK, the RMA taking close to a month before they even had new stock. If the replacement still has the peeling surface I'll be very disappointed considering the overall costs.


----------



## connectwise

Is the first gen FK's middle mouse button double click a normal defect on other FKs? Mine has that problem.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> If anyone else's scrollwheel has started to die, here's how to fix it.
> 
> The problem's basically:
> 
> 1) The scrollwheel's held in place entirely by cheap plastic, which wears down
> 
> 2) Plastic dust gets all over the optical encoder
> 
> Best way to fix it is to clean the inside of the mouse, then find the worn plastic tab on the underside of the top shell around here:
> 
> 
> 
> and put something on top of it to reinforce it. I used electrical tape which probably wont last for long, but if you have something better like a small metal clip go for it.
> 
> I've had the FK for a year or two and it's definitely my favorite mouse, but for $60 the scrollwheel is really shamefully cheap. Every decent mouse I've taken apart has at least had a spring or a metal assembly keeping the scrollwheel in place.


As far as I know they changed the scroll wheel in the 2nd revision FK. I don't know if it has the same problem though. I have the first version released.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Is the first gen FK's middle mouse button double click a normal defect on other FKs? Mine has that problem.


Nope. Double clicking means RMA (or soldering in a new switch yourself)


----------



## Ahnnn

How are all the 2014 FK doing? Still having the peeling issues?


----------



## connectwise

Mine never had the issue and I've been using it exclusively for a long time now. It's the only mouse I'd ever use in the future, it's great. But my middle mouse button not only have a double click issue, but also is very hard to scroll (dirty I think).


----------



## Ahnnn

Ahh , I've been seeing some users here complaining about the 2014 edition peeling , so I'm worried , wouldn't want to get it and then go thru the trouble to just rma the mouse when it happens


----------



## boOzy

ZOWIE GEAR FIXES COATING ISSUE: http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=57


----------



## rmp459

good to hear - i never had the issue with my pre-2014 versions that I use at home and work, but I wanted to get one with a new scroll wheel. My first fk doesnt scroll as smooth as it used to.

Theres just nothing else with a similar grip/weight that I can find that I'd consider using right now.


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Good info to know, Puked. I really do think Zowie could put more effort into some of the parts/materials used, although I understand they are a smaller company.


Makes me think that they ran into some patent problems or something, because it's a really bad way of doing a mouse wheel.

Unfortunately my scrollwheel fix didn't last long, has anyone else had luck fixing the thing? I even tried wrapping some some tape around the first prong of the scrollwheel assembly to keep it more secure, but it still doesn't work reliably. Not that it really matters I guess, no matter what you do it's still going to wear out pretty fast because of how it's designed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Mine never had the issue and I've been using it exclusively for a long time now. It's the only mouse I'd ever use in the future, it's great. But my middle mouse button not only have a double click issue, but also is very hard to scroll (dirty I think).


I had both of these on mine too, I think it's a natural consequence of the scrollwheel housing wearing down.

Double click is probably just some dirt in the switch, I fixed it on mine by opening the switch up and hitting it with some deoxit. Take the pcb out and push in on the little tab on the side of the switch and it will open, just don't lose the tiny red tab on top, it falls out really easily.

Dirty scroll wheel it easy to fix, just put some plastic safe grease on the contact points and you're good.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Makes me think that they ran into some patent problems or something, because it's a really bad way of doing a mouse wheel.
> 
> Unfortunately my scrollwheel fix didn't last long, has anyone else had luck fixing the thing?


can't be patent problems, when almost every other mouse uses the same scrollwheel mechanics(TTC encoder and simple solid wheel http://www.overclock.net/t/1201683/scroll-wheel-info)

on your zowie you could check if the "sensor" and LED of the scrollwheel have the right angle:


http://imgur.com/JjDQktU


----------



## PUKED

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> on your zowie you could check if the "sensor" and LED of the scrollwheel have the right angle:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/JjDQktU


Hey, thanks for that. After playing around with it some more, and really securing the wheel down, I think the main problem is that the sensor is just dying. I can only get it to register correctly when the little spoke wheel is pushed very close to it.

So the wheel dying is probably a fluke instead of a design flaw, good to know.


----------



## MonarchX

Zowie FK is the best mouse EVER. Its hard for me to believe that so many gamers do little research and end up buying expensive and UGLY laser mice with a ton of worthless buttons, features, and needless super-high DPI. I can't game with anything higher than 1500 DPI.

Below mice were in development for years and aimed to please gamers:
LOL @ http://www.techpowerup.com/201129/cougar-releases-the-700m-gaming-mouse.html
LOL @ http://www.techpowerup.com/201137/evga-torq-x10-gaming-mouse-available-for-pre-order.html

Seriously? All you need as a competetive gamer is a simply optical mouse with 1:1 traction (no acceleration or deceleration), non-slipper coating, a grip that fits your hand, and maybe a few extra buttons. Zowie offers all of that and can be bought on eBay for $50!


----------



## connectwise

O yeah? I disagree, it's the worst ever! The scroll wheel sucks, the switches are subpar, and the side buttons don't work on the opposite side! I mean, what gaming company would launch a product without any software to allow remapping?

I mean, Comon


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Zowie FK is the best mouse EVER. Its hard for me to believe that so many gamers do little research and end up buying expensive and UGLY laser mice with a ton of worthless buttons, features, and needless super-high DPI. I can't game with anything higher than 1500 DPI.
> 
> Below mice were in development for years and aimed to please gamers:
> LOL @ http://www.techpowerup.com/201129/cougar-releases-the-700m-gaming-mouse.html
> LOL @ http://www.techpowerup.com/201137/evga-torq-x10-gaming-mouse-available-for-pre-order.html
> 
> Seriously? All you need as a competetive gamer is a simply optical mouse with 1:1 traction (no acceleration or deceleration), non-slipper coating, a grip that fits your hand, and maybe a few extra buttons. Zowie offers all of that and can be bought on eBay for $50!


I see macro as an important feature when buying a mouse.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> O yeah? I disagree, it's the worst ever! The scroll wheel sucks, the switches are subpar, and the side buttons don't work on the opposite side! I mean, what gaming company would launch a product without any software to allow remapping?
> 
> I mean, Comon


Did you get the 16step scroll or 24step scroll version? I got the newer 24step one and it works fine. All buttons work for me. This is one of the best mice ever made.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> I see macro as an important feature when buying a mouse.


I guess when I was talking about competitive gaming, I was talking about FPS gaming. For RTS and RPG, precise aiming isn't as important, but extra buttons might be.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> This is one of the best mice ever made.


I completely disagree with that.


----------



## DivineDark

Sorry someone disagrees with your opinion, max... I agree with him.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I completely disagree with that.


Sounded like you were still pretty fond of it.

BTW the correct way to use the FK is 2300 CPI with raw input then adjust your sensitivity accordingly. Otherwise you could disable raw input and drop windows to 3/11 and readjust sens again.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I completely disagree with that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Sounded like you were still pretty fond of it.
> 
> BTW the correct way to use the FK is 2300 CPI with raw input then adjust your sensitivity accordingly. Otherwise you could disable raw input and drop windows to 3/11 and readjust sens again.


There's no use Metal. Its not an antiquated wmo, therefore its garbage.just accept that and learn to embrace the 1.6m/s 400dpi sensor of days past. Its the only way.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> There's no use Metal. Its not an antiquated wmo, therefore its garbage.just accept that and learn to embrace the 1.6m/s 400dpi sensor of days past. Its the only way.


Lmao I think he also mentioned that the WMO is good down to 1.8 CS sens. Yeah what good is that crap when I'm using an equivalent just under 1.5?

Also that G-TF speed is ridiculously fast. Are there any faster pads than that that are still fabric? Jeeze


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> I guess when I was talking about competitive gaming, I was talking about FPS gaming. For RTS and RPG, precise aiming isn't as important, but extra buttons might be.


But having extra features is nice even though you minimally use it.

Also, $50 (59 on zowie web) isn't cheap for a "plain" mouse :v

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I completely disagree with that.


Off topic: You ok in that video? Seems like you're taken a whiff of crack


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Its not an antiquated wmo, therefore its garbage.


This argument is nonsense. When I went from an IE 1.1 to a razor copperhead, I was thrilled about that mouse (until I hit it's extremely low malfunction speed). It had fantastic grip/shape, and felt like an aimbot in comparison to my 1.1.

The IE 3.0 is not antiquated until a superior sensor is released.

In rare occasions where someone needs a higher malfunction speed than the 3.0 can handle, higher PCS in other mice might outweigh their negatives (like inferior sensor tracking/accuracy).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Off topic: You ok in that video? Seems like you're taken a whiff of crack


Hahaha, the video is sped up to decrease length


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> This argument is nonsense. When I went from an IE 1.1 to a razor copperhead, I was thrilled about that mouse (until I hit it's extremely low malfunction speed). It had fantastic grip/shape, and felt like an aimbot in comparison to my 1.1.
> 
> The IE 3.0 is not antiquated until a superior sensor is released.
> 
> In rare occasions where someone needs a higher malfunction speed than the 3.0 can handle, higher PCS in other mice might outweigh their negatives (like inferior sensor tracking/accuracy).


No... I'm slow and play strategy strategy games and still can make the mouse malfunction. I, as well as 95% of all mouse users with a monitor resolution above 1920x1080, needs more than 400dpi.


----------



## Ahnnn

Hmm , I'm wondering , how stiff are Huano switches truly are for the FK?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Hmm , I'm wondering , how stiff are Huano switches truly are for the FK?


Never had a problem with them at all


----------



## Ahnnn

Too bad I've never tested huano switches before , I have only a g9x and a g700s for comparison







However , both the G9x and the G700s have very very stiff middle scroll button though , no idea if it could be compared to the huano switches by any means? But it shouldn't be even close to that , since the middle button is really really stiff.

I'm also torned apart into choosing this or the G502 , advantages for the FK imo , is probably being lighter , maybe better for fast swipes in CS , downside is probably it wouldn't track my Razer destructor hardmat.

G502 , as anyone have said , weight , but I don't really mind it though as my G700s weighs a lot more than my previous G9x , but if a lighter mouse will benefit me in game , who wouldn't want that?


----------



## connectwise

Are huanos what the FK has? I really like it over other mice I've used. The stiffness/click is very satisfying.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Too bad I've never tested huano switches before , I have only a g9x and a g700s for comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However , both the G9x and the G700s have very very stiff middle scroll button though , no idea if it could be compared to the huano switches by any means? But it shouldn't be even close to that , since the middle button is really really stiff.
> 
> I'm also torned apart into choosing this or the G502 , advantages for the FK imo , is probably being lighter , maybe better for fast swipes in CS , downside is probably it wouldn't track my Razer destructor hardmat.
> 
> G502 , as anyone have said , weight , but I don't really mind it though as my G700s weighs a lot more than my previous G9x , but if a lighter mouse will benefit me in game , who wouldn't want that?


Huano is a stiffer version of an omron, but has a more tactile feedback.


----------



## v4mp1

Can someone upload a picture showing the right side of the mouse while a hybrid palm/claw grip?

I'm curious about the right side buttons.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Lmao I think he also mentioned that the WMO is good down to 1.8 CS sens. Yeah what good is that crap when I'm using an equivalent just under 1.5?
> 
> Also that G-TF speed is ridiculously fast. Are there any faster pads than that that are still fabric? Jeeze


Back in the day when I used to use a 3.0 clocked to 500hz I use to use 30cm/360 (around 3.4 @400dpi and still use to get enough neg acceleration for it to be noticeable on extremely quick turns) no way I could use that now at my 60cm/360.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Back in the day when I used to use a 3.0 clocked to 500hz I use to use 30cm/360 (around 3.4 @400dpi and still use to get enough neg acceleration for it to be noticeable on extremely quick turns) no way I could use that now at my 60cm/360.


That's ridiculous. There was something wrong on your end.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's ridiculous. There was something wrong on your end.


3.4 on 400 are pretty damn high tho, I don't think someone with that sens should be very limited by 1.5 m/s PCS. On 1.5-2 sens it's not useable imo.


----------



## Wargui

Has anybody with larger hands been able to successfully use this mice? or would the Ec1 evo non cl be a better option?


----------



## Wall Street

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> Has anybody with larger hands been able to successfully use this mice? or would the Ec1 evo non cl be a better option?


If you are worried that your hands are too large, then you probably are thinking about a palm grip. This mouse really isn't shaped for a palm grip. If you use a claw or fingertip grip, it is really easy to hold a smaller mouse with a really large hand because the ergonomics of those grips don't involve wrapping your fingers around the mouse.


----------



## Ino.

This is my hand:



The FK was perfectly fine for me. I do a palm/claw hybrid.


----------



## Wargui

Well acording to the razer mouse grip guide i am a Claw gripper so the Fk looks like a great choice.


----------



## Wargui

Thank you Ino. that was very helpful i just placed the order for the mice


----------



## detto87

19cm hand here. FK has THE perfect shape for palm/claw IMHO.


----------



## Sencha

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> 3.4 on 400 are pretty damn high tho, I don't think someone with that sens should be very limited by 1.5 m/s PCS. On 1.5-2 sens it's not useable imo.


It was noticeable that was all as I said. Easy to play with though and I did as I loved the shape. No way on sub 2 though.









EDIT:

at 1.72 now @ 400dpi. Just plugged in a 1.1 I had lying around and if I 180 as fast as I'd like (instant 180) I only turn about 45 degrees over the normal 180 distance (30cm)


----------



## Sencha

]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> This is my hand:
> 
> 
> 
> The FK was perfectly fine for me. I do a palm/claw hybrid.


Fine for me as well at 22cm


----------



## rmp459

I use an FK at home and at work - both were purchased last year and have the 16step scroll wheel. I have had zero issues with the wheels, or the rubberized coating on either of them. I plan to pick up a 24 step one (or two) in the near future and just put them away because simply - this is the only mouse I have found recently that just works for me.

The roccat savu was decent, but I sold it to a friend after using it for a few weeks.

More recently, I bought a Mionix Avior 7000 due to the rave reviews about the sensor. It was the most clunky, uncomfortable mouse I had ever tried to use. The weight and shape of it made it literally unusable for me. I tried my best to match up with cpi/dpi to what the mislabelled steppings are on the FK and I got it close, but was so inaccurate after 2 weeks of using it that I was literally becoming frustrated - not to mention my hand would always hurt from the shape. Guess it is just not for me.

Went back to the FK and instantly back to normal. I really hope that zowie continues to offer something in this shape going forward, or at least someone else. Its hard to find something so close to the old school intellimouse in shape that just works.


----------



## DivineDark

I have two of the dreaded first run FK '14's. Zowie stated they've corrected the coating on the FK and the EC CL. Now I have a deep urge to buy a couple of each. Haha! Doesn't help that Amazon now offers them on Prime instead of having to have them delivered through 3CWorld. Mmmmm... Cheap next day shipping on Zowie products. /drool.


----------



## Wargui

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I have two of the dreaded first run FK '14's. Zowie stated they've corrected the coating on the FK and the EC CL. Now I have a deep urge to buy a couple of each. Haha! Doesn't help that Amazon now offers them on Prime instead of having to have them delivered through 3CWorld. Mmmmm... Cheap next day shipping on Zowie products. /drool.


If the coating is considered defective would they not allow you to rma it?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> If the coating is considered defective would they not allow you to rma it?


Not from what I've seen. They recommend that you return it to the vendor you bought it from. I'm FAR past my return date to Amazon. As soon as I get a good amount of peeling I'll email Zowie and see what they'll do.


----------



## Wargui

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Not from what I've seen. They recommend that you return it to the vendor you bought it from. I'm FAR past my return date to Amazon. As soon as I get a good amount of peeling I'll email Zowie and see what they'll do.


Dang i hope i get the new model then.


----------



## Coreda

I've already have three small peeling flaps on the newly received replacement mouse after a month of use. I had hopes they had fixed the issue, but whatchagonnado. I believe it's simply inherent to the type of coating used although perhaps it has been improved from the last batch.

However mine hasn't peeled in any horrible way as seen in some photos around here, so I can live with it for now. The interesting thing is my palm hardly touches the back of the mouse where two of the flaps appear, as I claw grip it, so it's just my fingertips moving the mouse most of the time.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rmp459*
> 
> I use an FK at home and at work - both were purchased last year and have the 16step scroll wheel. I have had zero issues with the wheels, or the rubberized coating on either of them. I plan to pick up a 24 step one (or two) in the near future and just put them away because simply - this is the only mouse I have found recently that just works for me.
> 
> The roccat savu was decent, but I sold it to a friend after using it for a few weeks.
> 
> More recently, I bought a Mionix Avior 7000 due to the rave reviews about the sensor. It was the most clunky, uncomfortable mouse I had ever tried to use. The weight and shape of it made it literally unusable for me. I tried my best to match up with cpi/dpi to what the mislabelled steppings are on the FK and I got it close, but was so inaccurate after 2 weeks of using it that I was literally becoming frustrated - not to mention my hand would always hurt from the shape. Guess it is just not for me.
> 
> Went back to the FK and instantly back to normal. I really hope that zowie continues to offer something in this shape going forward, or at least someone else. Its hard to find something so close to the old school intellimouse in shape that just works.


Plan to do the same. There's no other mouse out there atm that fits.


----------



## Wargui

Just recieved the fk a few hours ago,thanks to the fast shipping from canada computers. Even though my hands are pretty large it fits better than my g400s and the g502 i returned. The lod is very very low! I am sure most of you guys love this, but coming from mostly using a g400-g400s for a long time, its a shock. Even my ss Rival which I thought had very low lod does not compare to this. At 2300 dpi the mouse just feels amazing! Now i just have to hope that the fk i got is one from a batch with no coating issues.


----------



## Wargui

Whats the most optimal hz setting with the highest cpi step on the fk?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> Whats the most optimal hz setting with the highest cpi step on the fk?


500


----------



## Wargui

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 500


Thank you very much!


----------



## MalGanis2

I returned my Zowie FK 2014 because of the coating issues. The store guys don't know yet which units are defective and which are the new ones with the coating issue fixed :/

I emailed Zowie. Will let you know how it goes


----------



## xD4rkFire

Does anyone know where to buy the FK in the US? The only FK available on Amazon seems to be a refurbished one and the FKs on Newegg are from
3rd-party retailers with a giant price markup.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xD4rkFire*
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy the FK in the US? The only FK available on Amazon seems to be a refurbished one and the FKs on Newegg are from
> 3rd-party retailers with a giant price markup.


Are you okay with buying it off Ebay? There are a few from game java for sale.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Can you link the store page? All I see are EC2 EVOs when I search Zowie FK on Ebay.


----------



## connectwise

Na I was wrong, it's not there anymore. I didn't know they're gone.


----------



## DivineDark

Just wait on the FK. 3CWorld will put a fresh batch up on Amazon shortly. They're kinda my go-to place for Zowie mice. They had 12 FK's two weeks ago. Maybe Zowie is resupplying them with the FK with the updated coating.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Is anyone having any luck tracking down a Zowie FK? How long does it usually take for the mouse to get restocked on Amazon? I'm itching to get my hands on one.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xD4rkFire*
> 
> Is anyone having any luck tracking down a Zowie FK? How long does it usually take for the mouse to get restocked on Amazon? I'm itching to get my hands on one.


Can't find any on Amazon or eBay. Looks like everyone is waiting for the new batches to be shipped out.


----------



## xD4rkFire

I emailed 3CWorld and they said "Maybe next week". Here's to hoping!


----------



## soulseek

Is there worth it to buy a FK (old version) instead of FK'14?

A friend bought two mouses (FK and AM), and he did prefer the AM, so decided to sell to me (50 usd)...
I do like the Zowie FK, I just don't know if the older version worth it :\


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> Is there worth it to buy a FK (old version) instead of FK'14?
> 
> A friend bought two mouses (FK and AM), and he did prefer the AM, so decided to sell to me (50 usd)...
> I do like the Zowie FK, I just don't know if the older version worth it :\


The only difference is the scroll wheel and IR lens, everything else is the same.


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> The only difference is the scroll wheel and IR lens, everything else is the same.


I read about this... So your opnion is kinda "worth it!" ?
I can deny my friend's offer and try to import a FK14 version (and wait 50 days for shipping)...


----------



## detto87

I like the older wheel better. Fits more to the huano switches and the solid build quality from the shell. I want to use it in-game from time to time and don't give so much about the use of it while web browsing. It should be a gaming mouse after all.


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I like the older wheel better. Fits more to the huano switches and the solid build quality from the shell. I want to use it in-game from time to time and don't give so much about the use of it while web browsing. It should be a gaming mouse after all.


Thanks!
Helped too much. I'm going to take it now, hope it fits perfectly in my hand









(My mice history is: Razer Diamondback, SS Kinzu, Cm Spawn, Razer dA, Zowie FK [now])


----------



## xD4rkFire

Would it be safe to assume that all Zowie FKs in stock are the 2014 version now?


----------



## Coreda

Personally, since using the new stock/batch for around a month and a half, and seeing it peel in a pinkie-size area on the right mouse button and on the back in little flaps, I can't say I'm positive they've wholly fixed the issue.

People with the new batches seem to have different experiences, and from most I've read of others they report no problems, but it's worthwhile to keep in mind.


----------



## teeg

What's the consensus on the 2014 FK?

I've seen stuff about coating issues, max speed issues, etc?

Also about the scroll wheel, is it the same scroll wheel as like on the AM? The scroll wheel on the AM from when I tried it felt like garbage.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> What's the consensus on the 2014 FK?
> 
> I've seen stuff about coating issues, max speed issues, etc?
> 
> Also about the scroll wheel, is it the same scroll wheel as like on the AM? The scroll wheel on the AM from when I tried it felt like garbage.


I love it. I have the first batch FK '14, so it's probably only a matter of time before my surface peels off, but it's holding strong at the moment. The sensor is standard issue Zowie. Works like a champ. I run my Zowie mice at 1150DPI @ 500hz and it gets me about 3.14-3.6m/s.

The mouse wheel is the same exact wheel that was shared between the FK and AM. It just has 24 notches instead of 16. Still stiff and still optical.


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> Whats the most optimal hz setting with the highest cpi step on the fk?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 500


wasn't it 1000 hz at 2300 DPI?

Mine should arrive today, it is the 2013 version, so if i'm not wrong, best setting is 2300 DPI at 1000 Hz or 500 Hz?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> wasn't it 1000 hz at 2300 DPI?
> 
> Mine should arrive today, it is the 2013 version, so if i'm not wrong, best setting is 2300 DPI at 1000 Hz or 500 Hz?


500Hz renders the most stable and highest perfect control speeds.


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> 500Hz renders the most stable and highest perfect control speeds.


and I should stick to 2300DPI right?


----------



## ///M3TZ

Purchased another FK from eTronix World on Amazon that should be the updated version and it will be here Thursday. Will keep the thread updated if I have any peeling issues.

Still need to return my first batch FK 14 to 3Cworld due to the peeling issue. Anyone heard anything about their next shipment since xD4rkFire's post?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> and I should stick to 2300DPI right?


If that's what you like. I have absolutely no problem with 1150. Some say there are issues with 450, but that seems to be the prevalent setting that the CS and Quake pros use with Zowie mice, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> and I should stick to 2300DPI right?


Adding to that divinedark said: I use my Zowies on 450 dpi, 500 Hz. No issues.


----------



## teeg

450 felt noticeably jittery to me, 2300 feels much better. Both on 500 hz. This could be particular to my FK.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> 450 felt noticeably jittery to me, 2300 feels much better. Both on 500 hz. This could be particular to my FK.


Or the surface you're using it on.


----------



## teeg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Or the surface you're using it on.


QCK Heavy, Razer Goliathus, Puretrak Talent, Artisan Hien Red

All jittery feeling on 450 dpi.


----------



## DivineDark

Got me, man. I've only ever seen jitter from a Zowie mouse at 2300 and it was surface dependent.


----------



## metal571

Anyone have any issue with the FK wheel where half the steps feel more resistant than the other half? It's like the wheel is lopsided. Maybe I should take mine apart.


----------



## soulseek

Im thinking in put a dA skatez
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Anyone have any issue with the FK wheel where half the steps feel more resistant than the other half? It's like the wheel is lopsided. Maybe I should take mine apart.


I thought my new one was broken... Glad i`m not the only one. haha
Guess it is normal.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> Im thinking in put a dA skatez
> I thought my new one was broken... Glad i`m not the only one. haha
> Guess it is normal.


Wow you have the same issue on a brand new one? Jeeze. Lol


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Wow you have the same issue on a brand new one? Jeeze. Lol


Yep. Bought it three days ago... =)


----------



## Robbe

Just wondering, do I need to turn raw input on for csgo with 3/11 on win7 and 2300 dpi, or 450 dpi and raw input off with 6/11?
Googled to find some infos and ppl say raw input is bugged somewhat, is it true ?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> Just wondering, do I need to turn raw input on for csgo with 3/11 on win7 and 2300 dpi, or 450 dpi and raw input off with 6/11?
> Googled to find some infos and ppl say raw input is bugged somewhat, is it true ?


Raw input is bugged in CS:Go last time I heard.


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Raw input is bugged in CS:Go last time I heard.


So i should use 450 dpi to avoid this, but at the same time 450 dpi have more input lag..


----------



## teeg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Got me, man. I've only ever seen jitter from a Zowie mouse at 2300 and it was surface dependent.


It starts to jitter when it's on 450, not 2300. 2300 for me is fine on any surface, 450 feels junk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> So i should use 450 dpi to avoid this, but at the same time 450 dpi have more input lag..


Raw input in CSGO is bugged. Different DPI won't do anything about it.


----------



## metal571

Raw input enabled completely ignores windows settings. Turning raw input on will ignore the windows slider, effectively putting you at 6/11. If you want to play with an FK, I'd say turn off raw input, stabilize your FPS at a high value with a framecap and use 500 Hz, 2300 CPI, and 3/11, then recalculate your sens to your desired cm/360 using mouse-sensitivity.com.


----------



## teeg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Raw input enabled completely ignores windows settings. Turning raw input on will ignore the windows slider, effectively putting you at 6/11. If you want to play with an FK, I'd say turn off raw input, stabilize your FPS at a high value with a framecap and use 500 Hz, 2300 CPI, and 3/11, then recalculate your sens to your desired cm/360 using mouse-sensitivity.com.


Why would you use 3/11?

6/11 is 100% scaling for better tracking.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Why would you use 3/11?
> 
> 6/11 is 100% scaling for better tracking.


idk, windows-induced neg accel is one potential issue for that kind of CPI with very low sens at times depending on FPS and res.


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> It starts to jitter when it's on 450, not 2300. 2300 for me is fine on any surface, 450 feels junk.
> Raw input in CSGO is bugged. Different DPI won't do anything about it.


indeed, with 450 i would set rawinput off

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Raw input enabled completely ignores windows settings. Turning raw input on will ignore the windows slider, effectively putting you at 6/11. If you want to play with an FK, I'd say turn off raw input, stabilize your FPS at a high value with a framecap and use 500 Hz, 2300 CPI, and 3/11, then recalculate your sens to your desired cm/360 using mouse-sensitivity.com.


actually i'm using [email protected] with 3/11 on win and rawinput on, i will just change rawinput so. thanks


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> indeed, with 450 i would set rawinput off
> actually i'm using [email protected] with 3/11 on win and rawinput on, i will just change rawinput so. thanks


So you're effectively using 6/11 since raw input is still enabled. When you shut it off your sens will drop significantly.


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> So you're effectively using 6/11 since raw input is still enabled. When you shut it off your sens will drop significantly.


how can i know my sensitivity with 3/11? I can't change win sens. on that website you linked me.


----------



## soulseek

I just don`t understand why the most pro players on the world, keep using the raw_input on (talking about cs:go).


----------



## Robbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I just don`t understand why the most pro players on the world, keep using the raw_input on (talking about cs:go).


tbh almost no1 use raw input on


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> tbh almost no1 use raw input on


I got the Zowie FK a few days... And i've always played with RAW on.
I'm gonna give a try.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robbe*
> 
> how can i know my sensitivity with 3/11? I can't change win sens. on that website you linked me.


It used to give you that at least. Just put in the final CPI then. 2300/4 will be the effective CPI of 2300 with 3/11


----------



## xmr1

About CSGO raw input: http://www.overclock.net/t/1405271/regarding-mouse-optimization/0_20


----------



## aLv1080

My Zowie FK arrived yesterday. 9/10.
The only problem with it is the coating and the Huano switches. I have sweaty hands, and it is kinda uncomfortable for me while I'm playing. Also, those Huano switches are very heavy for me. For FPS it's fine, although it still being uncomfortable. But for osu it sucks, and now I have to play with my keyboard+mouse to have good scores...
I use 450 DPI, but would be nice if they put the DPI steps like this: 450 - 800 - 1200 - 1600 - 2300. Maybe a 1800 dpi step would be nice too.

Oh, I tested it with Enotus and I got this: 
Is that ok? I'm using [email protected]


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> My Zowie FK arrived yesterday. 9/10.
> The only problem with it is the coating and the Huano switches. I have sweaty hands, and it is kinda uncomfortable for me while I'm playing. Also, those Huano switches are very heavy for me. For FPS it's fine, although it still being uncomfortable. But for osu it sucks, and now I have to play with my keyboard+mouse to have good scores...
> I use 450 DPI, but would be nice if they put the DPI steps like this: 450 - 800 - 1200 - 1600 - 2300. Maybe a 1800 dpi step would be nice too.
> 
> Oh, I tested it with Enotus and I got this:
> Is that ok? I'm using [email protected]


It depends to your mousemat. Which one are you using? Anyway, this value won't bring you any problem.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> It depends to your mousemat. Which one are you using? Anyway, this value won't bring you any problem.


I am using a QcK Heavy.
Yeah, I think it's fine too, but I just wanted to compare it with other units


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I am using a QcK Heavy.
> Yeah, I think it's fine too, but I just wanted to compare it with other units


I do have (+-) same results. Using QCK Heavy too.
But I didn't try to get the fullest speed from my mice... Just simulated a 'fast back view' situation









Anyway, here: " http://www.overclock.net/t/1369780/zowie-fk-gaming-mouse-review-by-takasta " you can see the normal values about FK.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I do have (+-) same results. Using QCK Heavy too.
> But I didn't try to get the fullest speed from my mice... Just simulated a 'fast back view' situation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, here: " http://www.overclock.net/t/1369780/zowie-fk-gaming-mouse-review-by-takasta " you can see the normal values about FK.


Compared to that, I have pretty low results. I read that the 2014 edition has a lower max tracking speed, not sure if its true tho.
or maybe because I'm using the USB hub of my monitor and it might throttle my max tracking speed...

Thanks for answering me


----------



## metal571

I thought the IR illumination increased PCS? Maybe @Ino. has some thoughts on this to share, I think he's the FK fan on here


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Compared to that, I have pretty low results. I read that the 2014 edition has a lower max tracking speed, not sure if its true tho.
> or maybe because I'm using the USB hub of my monitor and it might throttle my max tracking speed...
> 
> Thanks for answering me


I'd recommend you to waste some time to test ur mice








Just to make you a little less worried, see my test (I tried to move as fast as I can):


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I thought the IR illumination increased PCS? Maybe @Ino. has some thoughts on this to share, I think he's the FK fan on here


I thought it was the opposite D:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I'd recommend you to waste some time to test ur mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to make you a little less worried, see my test (I tried to move as fast as I can):


Trying to move as fast as I can, I got ~3,18m/s.
btw, I am using 2 mouse feets (yeah, one on top of the other). It might affect it too, idk


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I thought it was the opposite D:
> Trying to move as fast as I can, I got ~3,18m/s.
> btw, I am using 2 mouse feets (yeah, one on top of the other). It might affect it too, idk


I have some deathadder's feet here... I tested em on FK (top on top of the default), but it is kinda thiker and i got malfunction. Mouse cursor used to move by itself.
What did you do? Put the extra feet of FK?


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I have some deathadder's feet here... I tested em on FK (top on top of the default), but it is kinda thiker and i got malfunction. Mouse cursor used to move by itself.
> What did you do? Put the extra feet of FK?


Yep, exacly.
I have extra feets here of my Zowie AM, I will test it with only 1 feet later.
Well, at least it didn't malfunction with me, even using a low sensitivity (~50cm/360)


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Yep, exacly.
> I have extra feets here of my Zowie AM, I will test it with only 1 feet later.
> Well, at least it didn't malfunction with me, even using a low sensitivity (~50cm/360)


Thx for replying...
My case was: stock FK's fett + Deathadder's feet (kinda thiker, 0.5mm, this model: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Razer-Deathadder-Mamba-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-0-5mm-Hurricane-/121120355194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61d292927e)... At normal use, everything was fine, but static mice, it was moving by itself (now imagine I'm playing awp on csgo)...


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> Thx for replying...
> My case was: stock FK's fett + Deathadder's feet (kinda thiker, 0.5mm, this model: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Razer-Deathadder-Mamba-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-0-5mm-Hurricane-/121120355194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61d292927e)... At normal use, everything was fine, but static mice, it was moving by itself (now imagine I'm playing awp on csgo)...


np sir.
I tested it again. The USB cable is connected to a motherboard usb, and I'm using only 1 pair of feet.

Zowie FK:








Zowie AM:









If someone has a FK 2014, please, post your results with Enotus


----------



## bvazx

It's normal results for FK. And results depends on the mousepads which you have used.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Raw input in CSGO is bugged. Different DPI won't do anything about it.


As far as I know this was a rumor that was never proven accurate. Proof?


----------



## bvazx

I play CSGO with direct input since beta and haven't noticed any issue with it...


----------



## DivineDark

It started last year when NiP posted their configuration logs and nobody but fifflaren have raw input turned on. They said it added a smoothed feeling that threw their aim off.

I don't know if this has changed now, but that was the scuttlebutt back then.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> It's normal results for FK. And results depends on the mousepads which you have used.


I am using a QcK Heavy.
Yeah, I read a little bit and apparently this 2014 edition has a lower max tracking speed than the other one, and I also saw some faulty units.


----------



## soulseek

After 1 week using this mice, two things:

I love it. It's precise, it's light, it's simple.
and I hate it. Doesn't feet that good in my hand (19cm), i got some kind of tendinitis and I'm really thinking to sell it :/

The problem is, I really don't know which mice to go. That's all, sadly


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> After 1 week using this mice, two things:
> 
> I love it. It's precise, it's light, it's simple.
> and I hate it. Doesn't feet that good in my hand (19cm), i got some kind of tendinitis and I'm really thinking to sell it :/
> 
> The problem is, I really don't know which mice to go. That's all, sadly


Kana V2 or Zowie FK1 (http://www.overclock.net/t/1498435/the-3310-comes-to-zowie)









You can sell it for 400brl and people will buy it lol


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Kana V2 or Zowie FK1 (http://www.overclock.net/t/1498435/the-3310-comes-to-zowie)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can sell it for 400brl and people will buy it lol


Holy ****! O.O
I could've sell it for R$ 400, indeed, but I have no options for replacement. And this FK1 will never come to here x)

I'm thinking to give 1 week more of trying... Just to see if FK1 will be on eBay.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> Holy ****! O.O
> I could've sell it for R$ 400, indeed, but I have no options for replacement. And this FK1 will never come to here x)
> 
> I'm thinking to give 1 week more of trying... Just to see if FK1 will be on eBay.


I know, dude. I live in this pos country too









If I were you, I would buy a FK1 and wait for it to arrive, and then I would sell the FK








It's your choice...


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I know, dude. I live in this pos country too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, I would buy a FK1 and wait for it to arrive, and then I would sell the FK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's your choice...


Imma do it!








Thx for replying, man. Best regards


----------



## soulseek

Omg, I bought the pad Weapon of Choice (AK version), by CM Storm. It's black with an AK designed at midle of pad. The zowie FK doesnt track good if I move fast from black to white part... I loved the pad, and I didnt know if I can paint it to black, or just move it back and buy another onde. I used to use QCK for last 5 years, andI liked this new more.

What you guys recommend me?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> Omg, I bought the pad Weapon of Choice (AK version), by CM Storm. It's black with an AK designed at midle of pad. The zowie FK doesnt track good if I move fast from black to white part... I loved the pad, and I didnt know if I can paint it to black, or just move it back and buy another onde. I used to use QCK for last 5 years, andI liked this new more.
> 
> What you guys recommend me?


Buy a single colored pad or wait for FK1. The Zowies with the A3090 are not good with multicolored pads


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Buy a single colored pad or wait for FK1. The Zowies with the A3090 are not good with multicolored pads


I do intend to get the FK1, but dunno when. I live in Brazil, wouldnt be that easy to get it... Need a solution for now. I think the best is give it back and buy another control pad, sadly :/

EDIT

What about Corsair Vengeance MM200? Is it QCK-like?


----------



## detto87

Corsair's cloth pads feel a bit faster than the QCK, at least that's what I heard.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I do intend to get the FK1, but dunno when. I live in Brazil, wouldnt be that easy to get it... Need a solution for now. I think the best is give it back and buy another control pad, sadly :/
> 
> EDIT
> 
> What about Corsair Vengeance MM200? Is it QCK-like?


Did you try the Roccat Taito? It might be a good alternative for you


----------



## Wargui

The coating on my FK is already peeling very badly as anybody had success removing the coating completely? RMA is not option since it would cost me half the price of the mouse to ship it back.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wargui*
> 
> The coating on my FK is already peeling very badly as anybody had success removing the coating completely? RMA is not option since it would cost me half the price of the mouse to ship it back.


Will Zowie not pick up the shipping costs? or did you get from a different vendor?


----------



## Wargui

I got it from one of their registered retailers. I sent them an email explaining the situation and they refuse to cover shipping cost. Very disappointed considering the mouse with shipping+taxes came at 85$.


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Did you try the Roccat Taito? It might be a good alternative for you


But, is it a control pad? I can get it...


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> But, is it a control pad? I can get it...


Faster than my QcK Heavy.
I'm sorry, I didn't see that you wanted a 'control' pad. There are some playpads too, but I'm not sure if they are faster than the QcK or the same...
http://www.playpad.com.br/mousepad-gamer-playpad-basic--ugp-p805 If I am not wrong, they have free shipping for the whole country


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Faster than my QcK Heavy.
> I'm sorry, I didn't see that you wanted a 'control' pad. There are some playpads too, but I'm not sure if they are faster than the QcK or the same...
> http://www.playpad.com.br/mousepad-gamer-playpad-basic--ugp-p805 If I am not wrong, they have free shipping for the whole country


I used QCK for last 5 years, I'd like to change, but not necessarily.
What you know about durability of the Taito one?


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> I used QCK for last 5 years, I'd like to change, but not necessarily.
> What you know about durability of the Taito one?


I don't know anything, but it seems to be better than the QcK Heavy (or at least the same)
I've had it for 3 days and then I sold it to a friend of mine, just because I was in love with my Puretrak Talent hahah


----------



## soulseek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I don't, but it seems to be better than the QcK Heavy (or at least the same)
> I've had it for 3 days and then I sold it to a friend of mine, just because I was in love with my Puretrak Talent hahah


Ok, thx for replying








Imma send mp to you, just for stoping the off-topic.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulseek*
> 
> But, is it a control pad? I can get it...


http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Mid-Size-Gaming-Mousepad-ROC-13-050/dp/B001FVW6DM

That is way over priced... I would highly recommend that you do *not* spend $30 on a mousepad unless you're rich and want to throw money around. But if you're rich I'd recommend for you to buy a bunch of different pads and see which one you like best.


----------



## treav0r

i had a roccat Taito. Its pretty fast, but MY GOD DAT EDGE FRINGE. it litterally peals just right of after 4 weeks. If you want to buy a new mousepad every other month, sure, but there are better pads out there (Zowie G-TF Speed and Puretrack Talent)


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ROCCAT-Mid-Size-Gaming-Mousepad-ROC-13-050/dp/B001FVW6DM
> 
> That is way over priced... I would highly recommend that you do *not* spend $30 on a mousepad unless you're rich and want to throw money around. But if you're rich I'd recommend for you to buy a bunch of different pads and see which one you like best.


It costs the same as the Goliathus and the QcK Heavy in South America.
Actually those pads costs ~50usd or so for us


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> It costs the same as the Goliathus and the QcK Heavy in South America.
> Actually those pads costs ~50usd or so for us


That doesn't make it any less overpriced.


----------



## metal571

King size 3mm is $24 on amazon for me with free shipping...not that bad


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Still $15 more than you should ever pay.

If you're not in North America you should look in local electronics stores to see if they have any large, generic mousepads. There's one in the US that costs $8 and is better than any $25+ pad I've used.


----------



## Nivity

Have like 30+ mousepads.
A generic cheap one is not even close to having the same amount of low friction as a Goliathus 2nd gen or Zowie GT-F speed.

Not like mousepads are expensive either.

Time to get a job if people cant spend a few bucks on a mousepad









And if you want a cheap mousepad just buy a qck heavy or something, not really expensive at all, atleast in Sweden they are cheap.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Have like 30+ mousepads.
> A generic cheap one is not even close to having the same amount of low friction as a Goliathus 2nd gen or Zowie GT-F speed.
> 
> Not like mousepads are expensive either.
> 
> Time to get a job if people cant spend a few bucks on a mousepad


There are more important things to spend money on than ridiculously overpriced pieces of cloth.

Not everyone is looking for minimal friction either. If that was the case, everyone would be using hardpads, not cloth.

I'd say enough friction to provide stopping power without being too much to hinder the smallest movements is the ideal amount for most people.


----------



## soulseek

As I said, I used a QCK for last 5 years. I dared to buy a new one cuz it was cheap... I was thinking about a larger mousepad, saw this for $ 15, then bought.
Sadly didnt work well with Zowie :/


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Still $15 more than you should ever pay.
> 
> If you're not in North America you should look in local electronics stores to see if they have any large, generic mousepads. There's one in the US that costs $8 and is better than any $25+ pad I've used.


I know you keep promoting that cheap thing, did you ever do a review and comparison of it vs. other mats? Because not everyone is probably going to grab one/will like whatever the glide is like


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know you keep promoting that cheap thing, did you ever do a review and comparison of it vs. other mats? Because not everyone is probably going to grab one/will like whatever the glide is like


I live in Seattle and though I'd seen every type of hipster in the world... But I was wrong. Max truly is a mouse hipster... Rejects anything popular for old/archaic crap and mouse pads that you can buy in a consignment store.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I live in Seattle and though I'd seen every type of hipster in the world... But I was wrong. Max truly is a mouse hipster... Rejects anything popular for old/archaic crap and mouse pads that you can buy in a consignment store.


Well, the MLT04 is a really good sensor, it's just really limited in use scope. I personally do a lot better at FPS at much lower sensitivity than the MLT04 is practical for, and I'll happily trade away any small smoothing effects for that overall improvement in accuracy.

Actually starting to think I need more control on my mat though, too smooth of a mat might actually be hurting my aim because momentum makes it slower to stop the mouse


----------



## detto87

Same for me, at least at the moment. The possible bonus in precision I might use with the MLT04 falls short against the precision I can achieve with a low sens that the MLT04 is not capable of anymore. I use both and I see myself using the FK more and more again, simply because the shape is as fine as the WMO's BUT I feel more in control with greater precision with a low sens FK.

@metal: I can recommend a higher friction pad (like QCK Heavy) especially for low sens because of the momentum as you mentioned. I can start moving the mouse for very small movements easily on every surface but stopping accurately becomes more and more imprecise the lower the resistance if the pad gets. That's why I sent back the TF Speed & Rough and Artisan Raiden. All nice pads but not enough stopping support.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, the MLT04 is a really good sensor, it's just really limited in use scope. I personally do a lot better at FPS at much lower sensitivity than the MLT04 is practical for, and I'll happily trade away any small smoothing effects for that overall improvement in accuracy.
> 
> Actually starting to think I need more control on my mat though, too smooth of a mat might actually be hurting my aim because momentum makes it slower to stop the mouse


Time to break out that QCK Heavy, Sir.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Time to break out that QCK Heavy, Sir.


QPAD UC 50. Even wider than the Talent


----------



## Atavax

any slick pads wider then the talent?


----------



## fLaPzZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> QPAD UC 50. Even wider than the Talent


I'm gonna grab one of these mats I think. I'd love to see the QPAD OM-75 mouse shape with a decent sensor. The shape looks perfect for me.


----------



## detto87

Try out the Mionix Naos 7000 then.


----------



## metal571

The Sargas pads are supposed to be very slow as well. Mionix is supposed to be providing me a Sargas 450 SK at my request, that might be the answer.

I'm an idiot and one time when I washed my QcK Heavy it formed a terrible looking gash mark in the corner because of the washer blades. Still tracks fine but looks like hell. Going to manually wash my pads from then on lol


----------



## fLaPzZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Try out the Mionix Naos 7000 then.


I did, had to send it back as it slid right out of my hand with the rubberised coating. The Qpad is glossy and glossy to me = easy lift.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know you keep promoting that cheap thing, did you ever do a review and comparison of it vs. other mats? Because not everyone is probably going to grab one/will like whatever the glide is like






. I edited the description to include pretty much all that's necessary to say: _"In my opinion the ideal mouse pad is one that has enough friction to provide stopping power without being too much to hinder the smallest movements. You also want a plain, single colored mat because it's best for sensor performance. The supermat provides exactly this."_
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I live in Seattle and though I'd seen every type of hipster in the world... But I was wrong. Max truly is a mouse hipster... Rejects anything popular for old/archaic crap and mouse pads that you can buy in a consignment store.


This isn't true and we've been over this multiple times. I've refuted your ridiculous statement every time, yet you keep on saying the same thing like a broken record.

I'm not recommending products just because they're old. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the popularity. They have significant benefits and advantages over other more recently released products.

You should redirect your anger towards people like takesta who hail every new mouse like it's some flawless wonder that everyone should buy, then uses the publicity to sell $30 mice for hundreds of dollars.

Manufacturers are degrading sensor performance while using deceptive marketing to push higher DPI as if it's something people should be using, and releasing mice that are only useable in specific grips, and you willingly get on your knees and lick their feet.

Also, @*Metal*, I think you overstate the limits of the MLT04. The percentage of people who use a sensitivity low enough to cause negative accel with an MLT04 is probably *extremely* small. And the hypothesized upper limit is immaterial in my experience. I don't notice any negative effects when using high sensitivity on 1920x1080.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> _"In my opinion the ideal mouse pad is one that has enough friction to provide stopping power without being too much to hinder the smallest movements. You also want a plain, single colored mat because it's best for sensor performance. The supermat provides exactly this."_


^ This. Though other pads/mats do it as good. Corepad Deskpad does it for me for example.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Manufacturers are degrading sensor performance while using deceptive marketing to push higher DPI as if it's something people should be using, and releasing mice that are only useable in specific grips, and you willingly get on your knees and lick their feet.


I wouldn't say degrading sensor performance as sensor performance is a term that has a broader meaning than just fidelity and precision.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Also, @*Metal*, I think you overstate the limits of the MLT04. The percentage of people who use a sensitivity low enough to cause negative accel with an MLT04 is probably *extremely* small. And the hypothesized upper limit is immaterial in my experience. I don't notice any negative effects when using high sensitivity on 1920x1080.


The problem is, do we measure the performance of the MLT04 on 125 Hz or 500 Hz ?
Not everybody overclocks this thing. What do I do if I'm on a LAN or tournament or similiar where I don't have the possibility to overclock it or am not allowed to do it?
To be objective we'd have to compare the sensor performance of the MLT04 @ 125 Hz vs the newer mice/sensors.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I edited the description to include pretty much all that's necessary to say: _"In my opinion the ideal mouse pad is one that has enough friction to provide stopping power without being too much to hinder the smallest movements. You also want a plain, single colored mat because it's best for sensor performance. The supermat provides exactly this."_
> This isn't true and we've been over this multiple times. I've refuted your ridiculous statement every time, yet you keep on saying the same thing like a broken record.
> 
> I'm not recommending products just because they're old. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the popularity. They have significant benefits and advantages over other more recently released products.
> 
> You should redirect your anger towards people like takesta who hail every new mouse like it's some flawless wonder that everyone should buy, then uses the publicity to sell $30 mice for hundreds of dollars.
> 
> Manufacturers are degrading sensor performance while using deceptive marketing to push higher DPI as if it's something people should be using, and releasing mice that are only useable in specific grips, and you willingly get on your knees and lick their feet.
> 
> Also, @*Metal*, I think you overstate the limits of the MLT04. The percentage of people who use a sensitivity low enough to cause negative accel with an MLT04 is probably *extremely* small. And the hypothesized upper limit is immaterial in my experience. I don't notice any negative effects when using high sensitivity on 1920x1080.


I'd say extremely small among CS players. CS players with 30cm or so, no problem for them which is an average sens, maybe 2.0 or so in the console is the lowest i'd go


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> ^ This. Though other pads/mats do it as good. Corepad Deskpad does it for me for example.
> I wouldn't say degrading sensor performance as sensor performance is a term that has a broader meaning than just fidelity and precision.
> The problem is, do we measure the performance of the MLT04 on 125 Hz or 500 Hz ?
> Not everybody overclocks this thing. What do I do if I'm on a LAN or tournament or similiar where I don't have the possibility to overclock it or am not allowed to do it?
> To be objective we'd have to compare the sensor performance of the MLT04 @ 125 Hz vs the newer mice/sensors.


Ehh, there's no reason to not set it 500hz unless you're on win8. It's not much harder than installing drivers.

I only went to a BYOC lan center, and I'm sure each lan has their own policies. There are probably some that already have the program installed, or you might be able to talk to the owner and get permission.

Either way, I don't think the amount of people who lan is a large percentage. It's smaller than the competitive gamer community because not all competitive gamers lan (I would say more than half don't).

So I don't think it's as simple to say that we must compare it at 125hz in all cases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'd say extremely small among CS players. CS players with 30cm or so, no problem for them which is an average sens, maybe 2.0 or so in the console is the lowest i'd go


Quake is the other major competitive FPS game, and CS players generally use a lower sensitivity than quake players since you have to turn a lot more and faster in quake.

And I think most people playing casual FPS games use even higher sensitivities (way over 400DPI).

CS is generally the lowest sensitivity game since you only really need lateral movement and mostly only have enemies in front of you, and need precise, small movements for quick headshots.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ehh, there's no reason to not set it 500hz unless you're on win8. It's not much harder than installing drivers.
> 
> I only went to a BYOC lan center, and I'm sure each lan has their own policies. There are probably some that already have the program installed, or you might be able to talk to the owner and get permission.
> 
> Either way, I don't think the amount of people who lan is a large percentage. It's smaller than the competitive gamer community because not all competitive gamers lan (I would say more than half don't).
> 
> So I don't think it's as simple to say that we must compare it at 125hz in all cases.
> Quake is the other major competitive FPS game, and CS players generally use a lower sensitivity than quake players since you have to turn a lot more and faster in quake.
> 
> And I think most people playing casual FPS games use even higher sensitivities (way over 400DPI).
> 
> CS is generally the lowest sensitivity game since you only really need lateral movement and mostly only have enemies in front of you, and need precise, small movements for quick headshots.


Yeah in that case...PCS would not become as big an issue as in some other twitch shooters.


----------



## TK421

Off topic: does the IE3.0 hold 1000hz stable or should I use 500hz?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Mine's only stable at 500.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Mine's only stable at 500.


How do I check the stability of polling rate?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How do I check the stability of polling rate?


mouserate.exe mousemovementrecorder.exe

http://www.gamefront.com/files/24069720/USBHz_Win7_7z

My motherboard comes with it's own program to OC and check the Hz.


----------



## detto87

I basically just meant: what if I get used to a sens and play style with the MLT04 on 500 Hz that is not possible on 125 Hz (because of too low sens) and I get to play in an offline event where it's restricted to install or modify system files?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I basically just meant: what if I get used to a sens and play style with the MLT04 on 500 Hz that is not possible on 125 Hz (because of too low sens) and I get to play in an offline event where it's restricted to install or modify system files?


Then that's something you'll have to weight against the benefits. But most people aren't going to have to deal with that.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I basically just meant: what if I get used to a sens and play style with the MLT04 on 500 Hz that is not possible on 125 Hz (because of too low sens) and I get to play in an offline event where it's restricted to install or modify system files?


Won't matter. Most of the LAN events I've been to recently, local and national, with provided PC's are running Windows 8.1. You won't have the choice to OC the USB port anyways.


----------



## soulseek

Did the FK track well in Razer Goliathus Control?
I keep finding any micemat, but I have few options. :/


----------



## degenn

Hey guys just picked up an FK yesterday and seems it won't work when plugged into my Silverstone SST-FP32B-E USB 3.0 I/O kit.

Has anyone else gotten their FK working on a similar USB 3.0 device?

The weird thing is I have tried an EC1 Evo, EC1 Evo CL & EC2 Evo CL on the same ports and they all work fine -- the only thing that doesn't seem to want to work is the FK.

The FK works on the hardwired USB 3.0 ports on the back of the motherboard but the cord isn't long enough to accommodate that setup and I need to use the ports on the front.


----------



## treav0r

I know some of you folks feel, that the Zowie FK has some sort of input lag, but it might not actually be input lag, because i figured out, that the mousefeet are way to thin. This causes the Bottom of the mouse to touch the musepad, wich causes some friction and pressure to the cloth. because of that, the fk feels kinda "greasy" tracking wise. I just put another set of mouseglides on top of the installed ones and now the tracking is much more snappier and i can really get dem Headshots in cs:go


----------



## detto87

Even better, you can put another set on the FK1's mousefeet and if tracking becomes a problem the FK1 now allows for adjusting the LOD.


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Even better, you can put another set on the FK1's mousefeet and if tracking becomes a problem the FK1 now allows for adjusting the LOD.


that is what i did


----------



## ///M3TZ

Welp my second FK 14 that was supposed to be from a brand new shipment peeled tonight. I'm extremely disappointed due to the fact that I put a lot of effort into keeping the mouse clean (no chemcials). I just don't think the coating can stand up to the heat and moisture of extended gaming sessions. Not sure what to do since I now have two mice that need to be returned to small vendors that usually don't have any in stock.


----------



## detto87

Maybe switch to FK1.
It has a bit different coating, more grainy on first touch.
But leaves sweat points too if that is to your concerns.


----------



## boOzy

I'd like to hear some experiences of other claw grippers. I just recently realized yet another way to hold this mouse which seems to greatly enhance my hand posture and accuracy. My normal grip has been: Thumb on left side, middle finger in that hole front of the wheel, ring finger on Mouse 2 and little finger on right side.

Now i've brought my middle finger in this small "hole" in back side of the wheel. Doing this my claw grip tightens up and the mouse sits more firmly and straight in my hand. It's funny how such a small change can bring huge improvement in control.


----------



## ///M3TZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Maybe switch to FK1.
> It has a bit different coating, more grainy on first touch.
> But leaves sweat points too if that is to your concerns.


My only concern is having a mouse that doesn't peel, especially both times within the first 2 weeks of ownership. I'd definitely be down to try an FK1, just don't want to purchase yet another Zowie mouse without any evidence that they stand behind their products. Hoping they prove me wrong this time around.

As of now I'll be running scotch tape on my mouse to prevent the peel from spreading as it did on my first mouse.


----------



## detto87

The coating on the FK1 SHOULD be different to the 2014 and CL versions, but of course .. no long-term experiences yet. So, be patient I guess.


----------



## ///M3TZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> The coating on the FK1 SHOULD be different to the 2014 and CL versions, but of course .. no long-term experiences yet. So, be patient I guess.


I really do hope that the coating has been fixed for FK1 owners and the retailers that sell Zowie products. Sounds like the additional grainy texture shows that they have at least attempted to fix it. The Zowie fan in me wants to just buy an FK1, but I know that's a poor choice considering I have been fooled twice already and could be out $180 just to get a non defective mouse.

On another note, since Zowie claims to have fixed the coating on the FK 14 in their May 8th press release does anyone actually know what serial numbers would have been from the "fixed" batch.

The last four digits of my first FK 14 serial are *(328X)*

My second FK 14 is *(578X)*

*Please chime in if you have an FK 14 with a serial number substantially higher than 578X.* It's possible I got two mice from the bad batch, but I'm skeptical considering I confirmed with the vendor that the mouse had just been received from Zowie, well over a month after the press release that stated the issue had been resolved.


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boOzy*
> 
> I'd like to hear some experiences of other claw grippers. I just recently realized yet another way to hold this mouse which seems to greatly enhance my hand posture and accuracy. My normal grip has been: Thumb on left side, middle finger in that hole front of the wheel, ring finger on Mouse 2 and little finger on right side.
> 
> Now i've brought my middle finger in this small "hole" in back side of the wheel. Doing this my claw grip tightens up and the mouse sits more firmly and straight in my hand. It's funny how such a small change can bring huge improvement in control.


I've always been a 3 finger on top claw gripper because I use all 3 buttons regularly. I find it makes me angle the mouse slightly off centre, so mice with odd sensor placement (g9 for instance) can feel quite off.


----------



## rafikens1000

Guys, is it possible that zowie fk 2014 has black bottom? Ive ordered fk2014 and they sent me mouse looking like mouse in this review : http://www.mwave.com.au/blog/2014/4/9/zowie-fk-2014-gaming-mouse-review.

So whats that about?


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## MalGanis2

FK13 -> Yellow Bottom.
FK14 -> Black Bottom.


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## rafikens1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MalGanis2*
> 
> FK13 -> Yellow Bottom.
> FK14 -> Black Bottom.


Lol?

I was sure by 100% that it is opposite ....


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## povohat

You are mistaken


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## bobsaget

Fk13 is indeed yellow on the bottom


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MalGanis2*
> 
> FK13 -> Yellow Bottom.
> FK14 -> Black Bottom.


Generally correct, but I'd like to add

FK13: yellow bottom, red led, 16 notches scroll wheel
FK14 (transition model): yellow bottom, IR-LED (with dust guard), 16 notches scroll wheel
FK14: black bottom, IR-LED (with dust guard), 24 notches scroll wheel


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## boOzy

Does anyone know if the higher DPI steps on 2014 FK are accurate? As in what they advertise them to be.


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## rafikens1000

1150 (aka 1200) seems to be ok


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## Coreda

What are some equivalent quality mice with no prediction/smoothing and with better/softer switches?

I like the shape but after considerable use the switches on the FK are really becoming tiring to use and I'm wanting to find something easier/softer to click.


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## vanir1337

How about not necroposting an old ass topic but actually replying to the mouse suggestion one? Can't belive it's that hard for some people.


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## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> How about not necroposting an old ass topic but actually replying to the mouse suggestion one? Can't belive it's that hard for some people.


Your jimmies seem unnecessarily rustled. The thread has been the defacto FK OT since it was released, there's no reason not to post here. May try the other thread too if there aren't more useful replies, which started in 2011 fwiw.


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## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you are a low sensitivity player you lift and swipe a lot. There are times when you swipe the mouse doesn't track because you ever so slightly lift the mouse. This obviously gets you killed.
> 
> Other reasons are more technical. When the mouse has a very low LOD it causes issue with multi colored mouse pads. Some pads will not track properly, you will get low malfunction speed, etc. Very low LOD also stops you from using taller mouse feet, this is why the Zowie mice have very thin mouse feet. If you don't like the glide of the Zowie mice tough luck.
> 
> I play well with the Zowie FK after I added some shape and size. The switches are fine for my play style, but they do tire me out faster than the other Zowie mice. I do great with pistols and rifles. However, because of the mold flaws my AWPing abilities have declined.
> 
> I think the problem you are having is the rear size and shape of the mouse. It is so uselessly shaped and to small for anything but small hands. It doesn't really fill the hand. So, the mouse moves around a little depending on your grip. They should have made it like the Diamondback because that would have made more sense considering the side shape.
> 
> I added a bunch of tape for some width, height and shape. It was a test for a later plan. Fills my hand better and stops my hands from sweating like before.


I looked for your original post for the tape. Where can you get that tape? Which one is it?


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## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I looked for your original post for the tape. Where can you get that tape? Which one is it?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The label on it says "Pro Gaff." It's gaffer tape.
> 
> You might want to look at one of those anti slip safety tapes.


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## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> How about not necroposting an old ass topic but actually replying to the mouse suggestion one? Can't belive it's that hard for some people.
> 
> 
> 
> Your jimmies seem unnecessarily rustled. The thread has been the defacto FK OT since it was released, there's no reason not to post here. May try the other thread too if there aren't more useful replies, which started in 2011 fwiw.
Click to expand...

Coreda doesn't know that you can still buy Zowie FK's through distributors here in Convict Town. Hence this thread is still relevant "sunshine"







.


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## .:hybrid:.

My middle mouse button just died on my FK







Sometimes it doesn't work at all, sometimes only if I press really hard, some times double clicking..

Anything I can do about this?

edit: Just took it apart to remove dust and it didn't help. Definitely broken. I admit I loved this mouse, but I paid 60 euros for it, and it only lasted about 2 years, while my old generic mice can last decades without problems.. Can't find my receipt so no chance of RMA


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## costilletas

desolder solder new one?


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## trism

Could someone who has the original FK measure the PCB dimensions (WxL) and somewhat ball-park locations for the sensor and scroll wheel holes + the location of the button pins (e.g. by keeping the top-left PCB corner as the origin)? Also the sensor optical center position would help too. Thanks!


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## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *costilletas*
> 
> desolder solder new one?


Any idea where I can buy a new switch? I have the yellow version of the FK


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## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Any idea where I can buy a new switch? I have the yellow version of the FK


I recently got some from Amazon, specifically the D2F-01F switches.


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## chairmanzala

Hey guys I got the white fk2 but the right side buttons keep getting in the way of my ring finger. Is there any way I could solely remove them? Thanks

edit: If anyone wants to try this, I took pictures for you. Just remove the screws that I circled in red. Then slide out the right side buttons.


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## p1r4nh4

*Information about the FK2 Ultralight*

I designed and printed a FK2 shell for a G305 PCB. As battery I'm using a Micro USB rechargeable battery with 400mAh which lasts about 50h of game time. The total weight is 60g. Screws allow the adjustment of pretravel since every print is a little bit different.

I print on a MSLA printer. It cures resin with UV light masked by an LCD screen, layer by layer. This allows a smooth surface and almost no support material in contrast to FDM.

After designing a Ultralight G305 shell with G100s sides and a G9x, I really wanted to make an FK2 shell since it's a really popular mouse.

If you aren't already aware: G305 PCB means wireless with almost no delay, insane energy efficiency as well as a precise sensor.

It is available to purchase but I'm sure this forum doesn't allow any kind of selling which is why I would appreciate if nobody asked for it.

I designed it with a software called Fusion 360.​


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