# [The Verge] The iPhone 5s



## MrLime

Quote:


> As expected, Apple's just announced the iPhone 5s, its latest flagship smartphone. It runs iOS 7, and looks almost exactly like the iPhone 5 but comes in different colors: silver, a new "space gray," and gold - as was heavily rumored. The standout feature is Touch ID, which is an integrated fingerprint sensor in the new sapphire home button that scans your "sub-epidermal layers" at 500 points per inch to read your fingerprint and unlock the phone. You can also authenticate purchases, so buying apps, music, and movies in iTunes and the App Store just got a lot easier. There's a capacitive ring around the that activates the sensor, and it can read your fingerprint in any orientation. You can also have it authenticate multiple fingerprints, so you can share your phone with specific family members without having to reveal your passcode.




Source


----------



## MrLime

All around solid update to an already solid phone, as usual people will love or hate the iPhone and nothing shown today will change that.


----------



## SMK

Revolutionary


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

I expected more from Apple here actually, a lot more.


----------



## nathris

A bunch of minor improvements, a "cheaper" model that's more expensive than the HTC One, yet made of plastic. I predict another year of slow decline for Apple.


----------



## Rognin

So much new stuff, wow!


----------



## jellis142

Sort of cool... but I'm still never getting an iPhone till they make the screen larger. It's just too small for me :/


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> I expected more from Apple here actually, a lot more.


Like what?


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Like what?


A jet pack.


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nathris*
> 
> A bunch of minor improvements, a "cheaper" model that's more expensive than the HTC One, yet made of plastic. I predict another year of slow decline for Apple.


Another would imply that they're on a slow decline already.


----------



## doomlord52

Seems... ok? I mean, it's a "Revision" (less so than 4 to 5, or whatever), so I wasn't really expecting much, but still. Not exactly a world-changing event. The screen is still sub 720p, it's still a dual core CPU, it's still got 1gb ram, an 8mp camera, a 4" screen. It's not really what they needed in order to challenge the major phones right now (S4, One, etc.). The only feature I think is pretty cool is the 120fps, 720p video mode.

And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work.

The bigger news here is the "5c". They've basically nuked the original "5" (technically the 5 is worse than the 5c), in order to try and move into the cheaper markets (heh, iPhone 5-cheap). It might work, it might not. However, this will settle the question of HOW desired the iPhone is. If it's only really demanded at upper-class levels, it wont sell, and we'll continue to see Android expand there. If the iPhone is really a universally demanded product, it'll sell like crazy.

/edit

Removed a bit where I thought they meant iPhone 5, and not the ~2007 one.


----------



## Abs.exe

I was waiting for this to change my old iPhone 4.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Seems... ok? I mean, it's a "Revision" (less so than 4 to 5, or whatever), so I wasn't really expecting much, but still. Not exactly a world-changing event. The screen is still sub 720p, it's still a dual core CPU, it's still got 1gb ram, an 8mp camera, a 4" screen. It's not really what they needed in order to challenge the major phones right now (S4, One, etc.). The only feature I think is pretty cool is the 120fps, 720p video mode.
> 
> And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work.
> What.
> 
> I'm not saying that's wrong.... but it's wrong.
> You can't pull a FORTY TIMES performance boost by switching to 64-bit and doing some other minor changes. You'd literally need to put an i7 in the phone. Same goes with the 56x GPU boost. Either the world changed today, and 40x no longer means 4000%, or someone screwed up.


compared to the original iPhone.


----------



## AtomTM

This.........................

just revolutionized the whole technological age.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Herp derpidy flippidy doodah ders sumtin bout that 5C that just seems so......_plasticky_.....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> What.
> 
> I'm not saying that's wrong.... but it's wrong.
> You can't pull a FORTY TIMES performance boost by switching to 64-bit and doing some other minor changes. You'd literally need to put an i7 in the phone. Same goes with the 56x GPU boost. Either the world changed today, and 40x no longer means 4000%, or someone screwed up.
> 
> Edited by doomlord52 - Today at 8:06 pm


Your interpretation is wrong.

The graph shows a difference in speed relative to the original iPhone with all the other iPhones in between shown for scale reference.


----------



## t00sl0w

that menu is god awful, i figured they would loose the oil sheen.

side note, my coworker refuses to put his teeth in while he walks around the offices chatting with people.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Seems... ok? I mean, it's a "Revision" (less so than 4 to 5, or whatever), so I wasn't really expecting much, but still. Not exactly a world-changing event. The screen is still sub 720p, it's still a dual core CPU, it's still got 1gb ram, an 8mp camera, a 4" screen. It's not really what they needed in order to challenge the major phones right now (S4, One, etc.). The only feature I think is pretty cool is the 120fps, 720p video mode.
> 
> And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work.
> 
> The bigger news here is the "5c". They've basically nuked the original "5" (technically the 5 is worse than the 5c), in order to try and move into the cheaper markets (heh, iPhone 5-cheap). It might work, it might not. However, this will settle the question of HOW desired the iPhone is. If it's only really demanded at upper-class levels, it wont sell, and we'll continue to see Android expand there. If the iPhone is really a universally demanded product, it'll sell like crazy.
> What.
> 
> I'm not saying that's wrong.... but it's wrong.
> You can't pull a FORTY TIMES performance boost by switching to 64-bit and doing some other minor changes. You'd literally need to put an i7 in the phone. Same goes with the 56x GPU boost. Either the world changed today, and 40x no longer means 4000%, or someone screwed up.


compared to the original iPhone.


----------



## MrLime

Oh I see OCN. Plastic can only be good on Android phones. Got it.


----------



## Shaba

Nothing like having a fingerprint scanner that sends my fingerprint over to the Apple servers for "safe keeping". Locally stored prints? doubt it.

iSheep are excited though I am sure. Now you can buy your apps and other items on the apple store with your finger! its fast and easy because typing your username and password was so...freaking..hard to do


----------



## ChrisB17

I was expecting a hardware update (new cpu and more ram) another let down. Thanks apple. I will stick with my GNII


----------



## eseb1

I like the fingerprint reader, but I like the look of the 5C a lot more. hmm, tough decision.


----------



## lacrossewacker

the color "space gray" as one of the new colors...

and gold

ughhhhhhhhhh that's going to get old real fast


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaba*
> 
> Nothing like having a fingerprint scanner that sends my fingerprint over to the Apple servers for *"safe keeping"*. Locally stored prints? doubt it.


Who are you quoting?


----------



## Shogon

So just 3 colors? Guess an increase of sorts.

The 120 fps camera is very nice though, Nokia needs that.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> compared to the original iPhone.


That's still completely insane. A 40x CPU power increase? 56x GPU increase?

Technically speaking, the iPhone 5's GPU performed around 25.6 GFLOPS. So... the 5s' GPU is around 1,433.6 GFLOPS? That's a GTX 650ti... in a phone. That tech simply doesn't exist.

/edit

Oh wait. You guys mean the iPhone 1 from ~2007. That would probably make sense.

Ignore the above.


----------



## TwilightEscape

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Oh I see OCN. Plastic can only be good on Android phones. Got it.


Pretty much sums up OCN.

I'm intrigued about that steel band on the 5C doubling as the antenna, hopefully it works well. The 5S has many major improvements but is like every other generation, upgrades all around but nothing really revolutionary. The 5C is the big deal imo as it's a better version of 5 just with a new design. While I dislike the bright colors as it does make it look cheap the poly-carb casing reinforced with the steel band should hold up well. My S4's backing is the thinnest plastic I've ever had on a phone and I feel like I'm going to snap it when pulling it off, this is at least a decently hard and thick plastic that also has something to reinforce it with.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> That's still completely insane. A 40x CPU power increase? 56x GPU increase?
> 
> Technically speaking, the iPhone 5's GPU performed around 25.6 GFLOPS. So... the 5s' GPU is around 1,433.6 GFLOPS? That's a GTX 650ti... in a phone. That tech simply doesn't exist.
> 
> /edit
> 
> Oh wait. Do you guys mean the iPhone 1 from ~2007? That would probably make sense.


I think you're still misunderstanding. The "original" iPhone means the ORIGINAL one they came out with. The comparison to the iPhone 5 was roughly "2x faster" but that will have to wait until tested to confirm.


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> I'm not saying that's wrong.... but it's wrong.
> You can't pull a FORTY TIMES performance boost by switching to 64-bit and doing some other minor changes. You'd literally need to put an i7 in the phone. Same goes with the 56x GPU boost. Either the world changed today, and 40x no longer means 4000%, or someone screwed up.


Compared to The original iphone. Same way as if nokia will compare performance improvement of their latest lumia to Nokia 3110








crappleMarketing


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> the color "space gray" as one of the new colors...
> 
> and gold
> 
> ughhhhhhhhhh that's going to get old real fast


it could have been Blush Pink, Classic White and Jet Black.

Lets not forget this...


----------



## jetsam

still not much better in terms of functionality than my iphone 3gs.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> The screen is still sub 720p, it's still a dual core CPU, it's still got 1gb ram, an 8mp camera, a 4" screen. It's not really what they needed in order to challenge the major phones right now (S4, One, etc.).


Alright. I'm going to pick this one apart.

CPU and RAM:
I guarantee you, that if you were to use a 5S and any flagship Android phone with a quad-core and 2GB of RAM that you'll be hard pressed to see any differences in performance between the two.

8MP Camera:
Did you not see the new changes they've made to the camera? Megapixels mean nothing anyways.

4" Screen:
I agree with you on this one, I'd like for Apple to release a 4.5" or 4.7" iPhone but it's going to take an awful lot of planning. There are only three total resolutions that the iPhone's screen has used since the original iPhone and every app in the iOS app store has been designed around them (iPad apps excluded). Adding more resolutions to the tight-knit iOS development community could cause frustration in the future, but it has to happen sooner or later.


----------



## Bobotheklown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> it could have been Blush Pink, Classic White and Jet Black.
> 
> Lets not forget this...


Bashing android really is your mission, isn't it?

In regards to the article, good call on Apple's part to get in to the more budget oriented smart phone market.


----------



## RatPatrol01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Oh I see OCN. Plastic can only be good on Android phones. Got it.


If it helps, while I'm not into the iPhone at all, I would never buy a Galaxy S product specifically because of the fisher price body on the damn things, metal or glass all the way


----------



## chip94

Boring Keynote. Not a major upgrade at all. Few cosmetic changes, a faster CPU and almost the same camera with dual LED flash now.

Fingers crossed on the Fingerprint sensor. Hope it isn't a gimmick like Siri is ! Staying with my 5 for now.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> Bashing android really is your mission, isn't it?
> 
> In regards to the article, good call on Apple's part to get in to the more budget oriented smart phone market.


No, bashing android is just a consequence. I can't help it if they keep popping up.


----------



## Ghoxt

I cannot go back to a "girly hands" small phone screen. I like Apple's IOS useability but the screen size is a no go.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> Bashing android really is your mission, isn't it?


He isn't bashing Android. It's when people come in this thread and start complaining about the 5C's plastic and colors when their own Android phones are probably made of plastic and come in weird colors (like the S4 pic), it just doesn't make sense.


----------



## michintom

Meh....aside from the camera, I don't see any big upgrades from my current iPhone 5. Maybe I should jumpship to Android again.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Alright. I'm going to pick this one apart.
> 
> CPU and RAM:
> I guarantee you, that if you were to use a 5S and any flagship Android phone with a quad-core and 2GB of RAM that you'll be hard pressed to see any differences in performance between the two.
> 
> 8MP Camera:
> Did you not see the new changes they've made to the camera? Megapixels mean nothing anyways.
> 
> 4" Screen:
> I agree with you on this one, I'd like for Apple to release a 4.5" or 4.7" iPhone but it's going to take an awful lot of planning. There are only three total resolutions that the iPhone's screen has used since the original iPhone and every app in the iOS app store has been designed around them (iPad apps excluded). Adding more resolutions to the tight-knit iOS development community could cause frustration in the future, but it has to happen sooner or later.


CPU and Ram is pretty irrelevant if you police your OS like Apple does. I am sure their dual core and 1gb of ram runs better than the quad and 2gb of ram that my S4 has.

And you are correct, megapixels are meaningless. It is all about the sensor.

My only criticism of Apple doing a plastic phone is the fact that most Apple people I know have always made fun of the plastic phones put out by Android providers. And I am sure Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave right now with the release of a plastic iPhone.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> He isn't bashing Android. It's when people come in this thread and start complaining about the 5C's plastic and colors when their own Android phones are probably made of plastic and come in weird colors (like the S4 pic), it just doesn't make sense.


Its not so much complaining as it is mocking the Apple (follower) mantra, creation and spreading of the word "plasticky" that has now come full circle and is ripe for mocking.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> He isn't bashing Android. It's when people come in this thread and start complaining about the 5C's plastic and colors when their own Android phones are probably made of plastic and come in weird colors (like the S4 pic), it just doesn't make sense.


I have a black phone. Do i care if it's plastic? LOL of course not, i don't pride myself by the material that my phone's case is made of. I just through "space gray" just sounded ridiculous.


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Boring Keynote. Not a major upgrade at all. Few cosmetic chances, a bit faster CPU and almost the same camera with dual LED flash now.
> 
> Fingers crossed on the Fingerprint sensor. Hope it isn't a gimmick like Siri is ! Staying with my 5 for now.


Under what circumstances is "twice as fast" only "a bit faster"?


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Its not so much complaining as it is mocking the Apple (follower) mantra, creation and spreading of the word "plasticky" that has now come full circle and is ripe for mocking.


Well they are plasticky. I don't think anyone is saying the plastic body used on the 5C isn't "plasticky" because it clearly is. It's certainly not something I'd buy. The thing that interests me is how well it will hold up. If it's a really good plastic case with a good structural integrity then great. Not many phones have both of those.

So then what you can expect from the Apple follower is "Our plastic is better than yours"

But as always, we'll see.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> Under what circumstances is "twice as fast" only "a bit faster"?


This comment brought to you by The GTX Titan.


----------



## Shaba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Who are you quoting?


not quoting anyone as much as I am stating the blind belief that personal info such as fingerprints are safe on company servers.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> Under what circumstances is "twice as fast" only "a bit faster"?


My bad, I missed that part. Still nothing to celebrate about.


----------



## TwilightEscape

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Boring Keynote. Not a major upgrade at all. Few cosmetic chances, a bit faster CPU and almost the same camera with dual LED flash now.
> 
> Fingers crossed on the Fingerprint sensor. Hope it isn't a gimmick like Siri is ! Staying with my 5 for now.


You must have missed the entire presentation then. The CPU/GPU are way faster AND 64 bit oriented. The camera has a massive upgrade all around, not sure how you can say it is the same with just a dual flash upgrade.


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaba*
> 
> not quoting anyone as much as I am stating the blind belief that personal info such as fingerprints are safe on company servers.


If you think they'd risk a move like that you are as ignorant as you are clueless.


----------



## MrLime

Welcome to *Overclock*.net where better performance is nothing to celebrate about. No big deal. Move along.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Alright. I'm going to pick this one apart.
> 
> CPU and RAM:
> I guarantee you, that if you were to use a 5S and any flagship Android phone with a quad-core and 2GB of RAM that you'll be hard pressed to see any differences in performance between the two.


Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim. It takes 20 seconds for an UNDENIABLE side by side comparison. Also, although I love android, it's very sad that we need twice the cores, twice the clockspeed and twice the RAM for everyday performance that is subpar to iphone in terms of fluidity and free of lag. The issue has become such that all the spec geeks flat out deny any lag on their touchjizz phones even when I blatantly prove it right in front of their eyes. I counted 14 stutters in 20 seconds of scrolling. They usually count none.

Oh, I forgot what forum I'm on. Iphone sux kill it wif fire

Source: Owned S4, HTC One, S3 i747, N4, i9100, 4s. Own Moto X, Iphone 5


----------



## TheSocialHermit

And I was hoping to buy a iPhone 5 as my next upgrade for my EOL HTC Arrive. Guess that plan went out the window...


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisB17*
> 
> I was expecting a hardware update (new cpu and more ram) another let down. Thanks apple. I will stick with my GNII


Sorry to burst your bubble, but they upgraded the SoC... GPU+CPU performance is up twofold.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shaba*
> 
> Nothing like having a fingerprint scanner that sends my fingerprint over to the Apple servers for *"safe keeping"*. Locally stored prints? doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you quoting?
Click to expand...

Apple, they said that prints are only locally stored,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> it could have been Blush Pink, Classic White and Jet Black.
> 
> Lets not forget this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bashing android really is your mission, isn't it?
> 
> In regards to the article, good call on Apple's part to get in to the more budget oriented smart phone market.
Click to expand...

"Budget oriented"? Same cost as the iP5 at launch (the 5C)!

Come on guys. Apple's not my favourite, I'm sure 99% of the facts are cherrypicked, but this is quite decent. Apart from the horrible OS and TINY screen, they haven't done bad here, at all.


----------



## kartcrg84

lol fingerprint scanner. anyone remember the motorola atrix??? People are going to call it a massive first now that apple is doing it...


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwilightEscape*
> 
> You must have missed the entire presentation then. The CPU/GPU are way faster AND 64 bit oriented. The camera has a massive upgrade all around, not sure how you can say it is the same with just a dual flash upgrade.


The camera upgrade isn't massive by any chance. Looks like you missed the presentation instead.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TwilightEscape*
> 
> You must have missed the entire presentation then. The CPU/GPU are way faster AND 64 bit oriented. The camera has a massive upgrade all around, not sure how you can say it is the same with just a dual flash upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> The camera upgrade isn't massive by any chance.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think it's a tiny upgrade.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaba*
> 
> not quoting anyone as much as I am stating the blind belief that personal info such as fingerprints are safe on company servers.


Finding what information a phone is sending to outside servers isn't the hardest thing in the world. Apple are aware of that. They wouldn't say that the data is only stored locally if they meant otherwise. That's way to risky. On another note, by the logic your using, anyone with a camera phone is susceptible to any company spying on them via the camera. Do you own a camera phone or do you just subscribe to the idea that they probably aren't spying on you?


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but they upgraded the SoC... GPU+CPU performance is up twofold.
> Apple, they said that prints are only locally stored,
> "Budget oriented"? Same cost as the iP5 at launch (the 5C)!
> 
> Come on guys. Apple's not my favourite, I'm sure 99% of the facts are cherrypicked, but this is quite decent. Apart from the horrible OS and TINY screen, they haven't done bad here, at all.


Apple didn't say it was sent to their server for "safe keeping", which is the thing I was referring to.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Its not so much complaining as it is mocking the Apple (follower) mantra, creation and spreading of the word "plasticky" that has now come full circle and is ripe for mocking.


This. Apple fanboys mocked android phones for feeling too plasticky and cheap. Now apple makes plastic phones, go figure.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> This. Apple fanboys mocked android phones for feeling too plasticky and cheap. Now apple makes plastic phones, go figure.


Hi I'm (allegedly) one of OCNs resident apple fanboys. They still look cheap, as does the 5C.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So it has a A7 which is 64-Bit but how fast is with 32-Bit applications compare to A6?
Camera is a bit better.
What else was there?
The way i see it the biggest change is the Finger Print scanner which i think is not really a selling feature.

I feel like Apple will slow down on sales unless they reals a bigger iPhone.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So it has a A7 which is 64-Bit but how fast is with 32-Bit applications compare to A6?
> Camera is a bit better.
> What else was there?
> The way i see it the biggest change is the Finger Print scanner which i think is not really a selling feature.
> 
> I feel like Apple will slow down on sales unless they reals a bigger iPhone.


this year has been the worst year for apples so far (from what I could tell)

people are questioning if they can "re-invent" the smart phone or tablet more and more, they're questioning the CEO, they're questioning if they lost their creativity, etc....

then they come out with the 5s and 5c and more colors (probably patented)......

*did not take the hint


----------



## RatPatrol01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim. It takes 20 seconds for an UNDENIABLE side by side comparison. Also, although I love android, it's very sad that we need twice the cores, twice the clockspeed and twice the RAM for everyday performance that is subpar to iphone in terms of fluidity and free of lag. The issue has become such that all the spec geeks flat out deny any lag on their touchjizz phones even when I blatantly prove it right in front of their eyes. I counted 14 stutters in 20 seconds of scrolling. They usually count none.
> 
> Oh, I forgot what forum I'm on. Iphone sux kill it wif fire
> 
> Source: Owned S4, HTC One, S3 i747, N4, i9100, 4s. Own Moto X, Iphone 5


Try a Nokia WP8 Phone, general fluidity is mind-blowing


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> Try a Nokia WP8 Phone, general fluidity is mind-blowing


beats the living crap out of my SG4 (and I thought the SG4 was smooth!) W8's smoothness, as I experienced it last Friday night, was jaw dropping. Had to stroke my android phone to make it feel better....


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim.


I completely agree with you. I just didn't want to go there because it usually starts an argument around these parts.


----------



## RatPatrol01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> beats the living crap out of my SG4 (and I thought the SG4 was smooth!) W8's smoothness, as I experienced it last Friday night, was jaw dropping. Had to stroke my android phone to make it feel better....


I recently went from a Nokia Lumia 822 to a Nexus 4 and while I adore my N4, there's a lot i miss about the Lumia.


----------



## Stay Puft

Way to go apple. Keep slipping more and more behind Samsung

Time to bust out an old friend


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I think iPhone 5C would have been a great hit if it was something like $399 but $549? Thats just too much.


----------



## RussianC

Yay! Completely unnecessary features on a mobile device!

How is this news anymore on OCN?


----------



## DizzlePro

ill take a galaxy S2 over this anyday


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I think iPhone 5C would have been a great hit if it was something like $399 but $549? Thats just too much.


It's bascially an iPhone 5 but $100 cheaper off contract.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianC*
> 
> Yay! Completely unnecessary features on a mobile device!
> 
> How is this news anymore on OCN?


Oh, like the "air gestures" in the Galaxy S4? That seemed to be a huge hit in the news section here when it was first announced.


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I have a black phone. Do i care if it's plastic? LOL of course not, i don't pride myself by the material that my phone's case is made of. I just through "space gray" just sounded ridiculous.


With as much as we handle our phones now, the surface and material qualities become even more important. Plastic, and quality of plastic DOES matter. I went from an iP4 to iP5 because the lens cover on the camera went to a sapphire crystal. That means no more halo pictures from a scratched lens.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I think iPhone 5C would have been a great hit if it was something like $399 but $549? Thats just too much.


I doubt that end user price with carrier subsidies right?

I think that fingerprint sensor will be a killer app if it works every time and implemented well. I have it on my HP laptop and hooked on it, HP has my business for laptops because of it. The company HP used, was the one Apple bought, Authentec.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Yeah that's far too much.

The demographic they are going for would have much easier access to a bunch of other brightly coloured phones that cost way less.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> It's bascially an iPhone 5 but $100 cheaper off contract.
> Oh, like the "air gestures" in the Galaxy S4? That seemed to be a huge hit in the news section here when it was first announced.


A cheaper iPhone 5.


----------



## darkstar585

Any builders/labourers on this forum?

I wish you good luck with the fingerprint sensor!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> I expected more from Apple here actually, a lot more.


the refresh "S" is never a full product revamp. Wait for the iPhone 6.

interesting. Android probably isnt going 64bit until 5.0.

Interesting move to adopt plastic again, after Steve seemed to abhor plastic. I dont agree with eliminating the aluminum 5 altogether and releasing this plastic version. Oh well, iphones for the everday man now. Apple is slowly becoming more main stream. perhaps a plastic macbook pro C soon?


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> A cheaper iPhone 5.


And it's cheaper in both ways...

How many people buy phones off contract anyways? $99 for a 16GB model with a 2yr contract is going to sell like hot cakes.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> the refresh "S" is never a full product revamp. Wait for the iPhone 6.
> 
> interesting. Android probably isnt going 64bit until 5.0.
> 
> Interesting move to adopt plastic again, after Steve seemed to abhor plastic. I dont agree with eliminating the aluminum 5 altogether and releasing this plastic version. Oh well, iphones for the everday man now. Apple is slowly becoming more main stream. perhaps a plastic macbook pro C soon?


$100 does not make it a every day man phone.


----------



## lacrossewacker

In case the 4 digit password was too hard to remember


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> $100 does not make it a every day man phone.


My 67 years old dad would have taken that.

100$ for a brand new iPhone with 2 years contract.

Android will now have a strong competition.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> $100 does not make it a every day man phone.


i think it does. agree to disagree.

just browsing through vzw's $100 priced phones after contract. if i had to make a choice with a budget of $100 i'd get the iphone 5c. Internally the 5, which is not _that_ bad of a phone.


----------



## kael13

Typical 's' version update for Apple. It's always like this. The iPhone is still the prettiest phone out there, though. I think fingerprint tech could be pretty big in a few years when it comes to more phones. Imagine using biometrics instead of passwords everywhere.

Maybe I'll wait for the iPhone 6S, the 5 is still a great phone. I can see it lasting me a long time.

Oh, the one thing that annoyed me was the price increase. B*****ds.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> Try a Nokia WP8 Phone, general fluidity is mind-blowing


Completely agree, WP8 os takes the cake for best fluidity. Spent some time with the 920 and 925.


----------



## {Unregistered}

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I cannot go back to a "girly hands" small phone screen. I like Apple's IOS useability but the screen size is a no go.


How big are your hands, man?

I would definitely like for Apply to upgrade the screen to somewhere around 4.5", but I imagine anything bigger than that would make one-handed use fairly difficult.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Welcome to *Overclock*.net where better performance is nothing to celebrate about. No big deal. Move along.


If you hate this site so much, why waste your time here?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but they upgraded the SoC... GPU+CPU performance is up twofold.
> Apple, they said that prints are only locally stored,
> "Budget oriented"? Same cost as the iP5 at launch (the 5C)!
> 
> Come on guys. Apple's not my favourite, I'm sure 99% of the facts are cherrypicked, but this is quite decent. Apart from the horrible OS and TINY screen, they haven't done bad here, at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Apple didn't say it was sent to their server for "safe keeping", which is the thing I was referring to.
Click to expand...

I know, it's just typical NSA waryness after the PRISM "scandal".


----------



## RatPatrol01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> The iPhone is still the prettiest phone out there, though.


The Xperia Z, HTC One, and Lumia 920 would all like a word.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> The Xperia Z, HTC One, and Lumia 920 would all like a word.


oh c'mon now, the iPhone has always been the prettiest of all


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> The iPhone is still the prettiest phone out there, though.
> 
> 
> 
> The Xperia Z, HTC One, and Lumia 920 would all like a word.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the HTC 8X!


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> If you hate this site so much, why waste your time here?


I love this site. It's the comments that make no sense.


----------



## TSXmike

this thread is mildly amusing. lol

hope my in-laws decide to upgrade to this... i want to toy with it.


----------



## DizzlePro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Typical 's' version update for Apple. It's always like this. *The iPhone is still the prettiest phone out there*, though. I think fingerprint tech could be pretty big in a few years when it comes to more phones. Imagine using biometrics instead of passwords everywhere.
> 
> Maybe I'll wait for the iPhone 6S, the 5 is still a great phone. I can see it lasting me a long time.
> 
> Oh, the one thing that annoyed me was the price increase. B*****ds.


I guess you haven't seen the HTC One?


----------



## lacrossewacker

http://www.google.com/finance?cid=22144

investors didn't seem too happy with apples revealed today.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> My 67 years old dad would have taken that.
> 
> 100$ for a brand new iPhone with 2 years contract.
> 
> Android will now have a strong competition.


But compare iPhone 5 with 5C and anyone would take 5 any day of the week. Also $100 is 50% cheaper but actual price is 550 vs 650. In that 2 years contract $100 is nothing to option out of the 5S to get 5C.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> http://www.google.com/finance?cid=22144
> 
> investors didn't seem too happy with apples revealed today.


-Investors
-Happy

Pick one.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> -Investors
> -Happy
> 
> Pick one.


just a general consensus of the lack of enthusiasm of the products that Apple showEd today

other than that that's a funny saying


----------



## Just a nickname

It's just a phone, relax.

SG3 vs SG4 wasn't a big difference either. At one time all you can improve is hardware, some extra functionality like the fingerprint but unless you can reduce the size of many internal components, you can't add anymore stuff.
All they need is at least one new thing every generation to create the "need" to get the new iphone. Every generation it used to be a big improvement but now the smartphone technology is quite mature and not a lot of improvement are possible.

I don't think apple is on a decline, I think the market isn't what it used to be. Now upgrading every year is useless, before going from iphone 1 to 2 was a major change.
It's just "that". Apple needs to offer more products, of various size. Bigger and faster Iphone, plastic Iphone (cheaper), etc.

Plastic vs metal/glass. Plastic is the ideal material for smartphones. It's far more resistant and durable than metal and glass. Glass is very vulnerable to impact and metal is easily scratched and doesn't absorb impact.


----------



## Seid Dark

I cannot wait to send my fingerprints to NSA. I already threw my old Lumia 920 to the trash bin, 5S here I come


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> But compare iPhone 5 with 5C and anyone would take 5 any day of the week. Also $100 is 50% cheaper but actual price is 550 vs 650. In that 2 years contract $100 is nothing to option out of the 5S to get 5C.


it's all about price of entry to the majority of customers. $100 for an iphone 5C/5 and a 2 year is still a very good "deal".

I'd think the 5C would have better battery life and reception than the 5. I can see this being the new phone to get for teens+.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> just a general consensus of the lack of enthusiasm of the products that Apple showEd today
> 
> other than that that's a funny saying


They're down 2.8%... In other words, it's a regular day.


----------



## Karlz3r

The "S" models are just beefier models of the same generation phones that were launched earlier.
Why are some people still imagining that the beefier model should have something revolutionary about it?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> They're down 2.8%... In other words, it's a regular day.


2.8 percent down on the announcement day of the next iPhone is not what got them to where they currently are


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karlz3r*
> 
> The "S" models are just beefier models of the same generation phones that were launched earlier.
> Why are some people still imagining that the beefier model should have something revolutionary about it?


Inferring the iPhone 5 was revolutionary?


----------



## MrLime

Surprise! The market expected a more exciting announcement but for some unknown reason Apple shocked and disappointed the world by introducing iPhones which are, in fact, still phones made by Apple that run iOS.

People have extremely high expectations for Apple. The fact that they believe that It's Apples duty to reinvent the phone is ridiculous. Nobody else is expected to even try. That's the Apple standard for you. Had Samsung brought out a phone with the exact same features, this thread would be very different.


----------



## bavman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I cannot wait to send my fingerprints to NSA. I already threw my old Lumia 920 to the trash bin, 5S here I come


Lucky for you, you don't have to wait!!!11!!!1

Remember when you were born in the US what they do to new-borns? Or what they do when you immigrate into the country?

Lets play "guess which of your favorite government agencies already has your fingerprints whether or not you but this phone".


----------



## crust_cheese

They changed the colour so people now actually will be able to make out you've got the new 5S


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I cannot wait to send my fingerprints to NSA. I already threw my old Lumia 920 to the trash bin, 5S here I come


Yea no kidding lol, on file forever. It can be seen as both good and bad I suppose, in regards to the finger print scanner and the world we live in today.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> just a general consensus of the lack of enthusiasm of the products that Apple showEd today
> 
> other than that that's a funny saying


It's like that after every single Apple event, there's always a feeling that everybody is underwhelmed with what they show. But Apple will still sell these phones by the boatload. At the next Apple event when they release the next iPad it'll be the same thing. Like that every single time because all of the rumors wind up being true to some extent, so everybody knows what to expect.

The 5S is leaps and bounds better than any android phone. It'll sell like it too.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bavman*
> 
> Remember when you were born in the US what they do to new-borns? Or what they do when you immigrate into the country?


Luckily I'm not from USA.


----------



## bavman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> Luckily I'm not from USA.


Dang didn't even notice. Well then I don't know how much the NSA would care for your prints though?? I'm sure if they really wanted them it wouldn't be too hard considering all the money they have.


----------



## nyk20z3

When has sales for the iPhone ever slowed down ?

The aftermarket support is still the most dominate in Apples favor and they have another hit on there hands.

Can't wait for iOS 7 to drop for my 5....


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> When has sales for the iPhone ever slowed down ?
> 
> The aftermarket support is still the most dominate in Apples favor and they have another hit on there hands.
> 
> Can't wait for iOS 7 to drop for my 5....


Not slowed down but has not picked up for some years now. Galaxy S in the other hand has picked up greatly. It just shows that iPhone still sells to current iPhone owners and very little to people that have not used a iPhone before.


----------



## triarii3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Sort of cool... but I'm still never getting an iPhone till they make the screen larger. It's just too small for me :/


yes this. the only reason i switch from iphone is because screen is too small for me.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Not slowed down but has not picked up for some years now. Galaxy S in the other hand has picked up greatly. It just shows that iPhone still sells to current iPhone owners and very little to people that have not used a iPhone before.


False.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> It's like that after every single Apple event, there's always a feeling that everybody is underwhelmed with what they show. But Apple will still sell these phones by the boatload. At the next Apple event when they release the next iPad it'll be the same thing. Like that every single time because all of the rumors wind up being true to some extent, so everybody knows what to expect.
> 
> *The 5S is leaps and bounds better than any android phone. It'll sell like it too*.


----------



## GMcDougal

Soon as they offer a bigger screen they might be an upgrade path for me.


----------



## General123

Looks like a solid update to me.


----------



## Gallien

Only thing I have to add is....that fingerprint scanner........NSA is drooling.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bavman*
> 
> Dang didn't even notice. Well then I don't know how much the NSA would care for your prints though?? I'm sure if they really wanted them it wouldn't be too hard considering all the money they have.


Yeah. I'm worried about my privacy but not paranoid. I even use Gmail because it's convenient even though Google is anti-privacy. This fingerprint sensor is something similar, it could be useful but it raises some questions about security.


----------



## btupsx

Lol.... every new iPhone release since the 3GS just reminds me of the "Awesomo" episode of South Park, where Cartman spits out simplistic and slightly varied Adam Sandler movie plot lines one after another, while the movie execs exclaim brilliance. I know new tech ideas are hard, but come on Apple, that's why you make the big bucks, right? A fingerprint sensor? That's the best you can do?


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *btupsx*
> 
> Lol.... every new iPhone release since the 3GS just reminds me of the "Awesomo" episode of South Park, where Cartman spits out simplistic and slightly varied Adam Sandler movie plot lines one after another, while the movie execs exclaim brilliance. I know new tech ideas are hard, but come on Apple, that's why you make the big bucks, right? A fingerprint sensor? That's the best you can do?


How much do you want to bet Samsung will follow suit?


----------



## DizzlePro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> It's like that after every single Apple event, there's always a feeling that everybody is underwhelmed with what they show. But Apple will still sell these phones by the boatload. At the next Apple event when they release the next iPad it'll be the same thing. Like that every single time because all of the rumors wind up being true to some extent, so everybody knows what to expect.
> 
> *The 5S is leaps and bounds better than any android phone. It'll sell like it* too.


another blind fanboy


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> How much do you want to bet Samsung will follow suit?


who needs a finger print scanner. You can unlock Samsung phones with your mind.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> another blind fanboy


It's not really blind fanboyism when it's fact...Spec wise, it's a better phone all around. Performance wise, it won't even be close. It just doesnt have a 100" screen. Benchmarks will be hilarious.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I know, it's just typical NSA waryness after the PRISM "scandal".


Gonna be the bad guy now..

sorry 'after'

its still ongoing and going on forever now. No reversing out of that one









patent filed for video/audio blackouts in public gatherings on iphones not a good move.. now a freaking free police thumb print library for half the population without even committing a crime. Even the NSA said this recently:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130909/08582024452/steve-jobs-is-big-brother-smartphone-users-are-zombies-according-to-nsa-cell-phone-tapping-presentation.shtml

Amazing irony but still !

You think that these global US corps don't allow access to this stuff. Wow, just wow. The amount of power they have over you with your phones is literally astounding just so you can read an email on the go and play a few naff games.

ohh well, nothing to see here..


----------



## btupsx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> How much do you want to bet Samsung will follow suit?


Of course. As always, Samsung will try to one up the Cupertino Clan. Why stop at fingerprint analysis? Why not have the next GS sequence your DNA? Definitely more secure than a simple 500 dpi fingerprint scan, no?


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim. It takes 20 seconds for an UNDENIABLE side by side comparison. Also, although I love android, it's very sad that we need twice the cores, twice the clockspeed and twice the RAM for everyday performance that is subpar to iphone in terms of fluidity and free of lag. The issue has become such that all the spec geeks flat out deny any lag on their touchjizz phones even when I blatantly prove it right in front of their eyes. I counted 14 stutters in 20 seconds of scrolling. They usually count none.


Well, I just grabbed a friends iPhone 5, and my S4, connected to the same Wifi, and loaded up OCN to this thread. I then scrolled. It was identical.

So, maybe you have super laser eyes, and can see micro-stutter that my 20/20 vision and constant experience/exposure to 144hz can't. Alright, let's test that. I got out my DSLR, put it in 60fps (720p) mode and filmed it while scrolling.

Guess what?

No stutter even when going frame-by-frame in the video.

Android requires 'work' to keep it butter smooth. That's no secret. It comes with an Open OS. Give it a reboot every week or so; clear the ram; close unwanted/needed apps. Don't have 80 home pages and a thousand widgets. I run a very basic setup:
Animations are set to 0 via dev menu
I have 2 home pages
I have 1 widget and 8 icons per home page
I have a static background

That's it. As a result, it's very, very smooth.

You can say the same for apple. Take an iPhone 4s or 5 and let it be used non-stop for a week or so. It'll turn into a laggy mess fairly fast.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Take an iPhone 4s or 5 and let it be used non-stop for a week or so. It'll turn into a laggy mess fairly fast.


I'm sorry, but that's simply not true at all. iPhones like Macs require little to no maintenance like you describe. iOS specifically is designed so you don't have to manage every little facet. I'm sure you'll all call me a blind defender of Apple but there's so much misinformation in this thread it's scary.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Seems... ok? I mean, it's a "Revision" (less so than 4 to 5, or whatever), so I wasn't really expecting much, but still. Not exactly a world-changing event. The screen is still sub 720p, it's still a dual core CPU, it's still got 1gb ram, an 8mp camera, a 4" screen. It's not really what they needed in order to challenge the major phones right now (S4, One, etc.). The only feature I think is pretty cool is the 120fps, 720p video mode.
> 
> And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work.
> 
> The bigger news here is the "5c". They've basically nuked the original "5" (technically the 5 is worse than the 5c), in order to try and move into the cheaper markets (heh, iPhone 5-cheap). It might work, it might not. However, this will settle the question of HOW desired the iPhone is. If it's only really demanded at upper-class levels, it wont sell, and we'll continue to see Android expand there. If the iPhone is really a universally demanded product, it'll sell like crazy.
> 
> /edit
> 
> Removed a bit where I thought they meant iPhone 5, and not the ~2007 one.


Nothing is really a world-changing event anymore. You'd have to bring out holograms and whatnot.

Yes the resolution is sub 720p, but it's 326 PPI. Is there really any need for it to become higher?

The processor is a dual-core which is up to twice as fast. It's 64-bit, and no doubt had plenty of IPC improvements and an increased clock speed. I would've liked to have seen 2GB of RAM, but honestly 1GB isn't going to hold it back. And don't forget the GPU which is also apparently twice as fast.

No they didn't but this is much better tech than those old fingerprint scanners from what I can tell. It's quick and incredibly accurate.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Take an iPhone 4s or 5 and let it be used non-stop for a week or so. It'll turn into a laggy mess fairly fast.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true at all. iPhones like Macs require little to no maintenance like you describe. iOS specifically is designed so you don't have to manage every little facet. I'm sure you'll all call me a blind defender of Apple but there's so much misinformation in this thread it's scary.
Click to expand...

Most of my friends have iPhone 4s/5s (at least 8)
All of them turn to a laggy mess after a week or so without a reboot.

I talk from what I've seen.

Note: By laggy mess I mean longer app-transition times, app-switching, startup, etc. compared to my S4 and a freshly booted 4S/5. Macs are just slow to begin with.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> The 5S is leaps and bounds better than any android phone. It'll sell like it too.


*Leaps and bounds better than any* android phone when the 5S doesn't have OIS(One,G2), 802.11AC(One,GS4,G2,Z1,), LTE-Advanced(all Snapdragon 800 phones such as G2, Xperia Z1, Note3)? When it couldn't match HTC One's front facing speakers? How well its 8MP/1.5 micron camera will do will be up for debate, but it is likely to be not as good as One's 2.0 micron camera at night shots while not as detailed as the 13/20 megapixel cameras on GS4/G2/Z1 at daylight pictures. Not to mention it only have *56%* the screen area of a 5" phone.


----------



## btupsx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim. It takes 20 seconds for an UNDENIABLE side by side comparison. Also, although I love android, it's very sad that we need twice the cores, twice the clockspeed and twice the RAM for everyday performance that is subpar to iphone in terms of fluidity and free of lag. The issue has become such that all the spec geeks flat out deny any lag on their touchjizz phones even when I blatantly prove it right in front of their eyes. I counted 14 stutters in 20 seconds of scrolling. They usually count none.
> 
> Oh, I forgot what forum I'm on. Iphone sux kill it wif fire
> 
> Source: Owned S4, HTC One, S3 i747, N4, i9100, 4s. Own Moto X, Iphone 5


I have to say I agree with you 100% on this. In my experience, iOS is butter smooth, Windows is just a bit behind, while Android is not as smooth out of the box, and it just gets worse from there. Mind you the only iPhone I've ever owned was the 3GS, have a Droid Razr now, and prefer the basic concept of Android over iOS, and always have.


----------



## UNOE

I like my iPhone but I refuse to pay $100 for $10 more of Nand ram on the 32GB model. The $100 mark up only made since with iPhone 3G

Base model at launch

iphone (One) - 4GB
iPhone 3G - 16GB
iPhone 3GS - 16GB
iPhone 4 - 16GB
iPhone 4S - 16GB
iPhone 5 - 16GB
iPhone 5S - 16GB


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> *Leaps and bounds better than any* android phone when the 5S doesn't have OIS(One,G2), 802.11AC(One,GS4,G2,Z1,), LTE-Advanced(all Snapdragon 800 phones such as G2, Xperia Z1, Note3)? When it couldn't match HTC One's front facing speakers or its 2.0 micron(5S only have 1.5 micron) pixels for night shots or G2/GS4/Z1's 13/20 megapixel for daylight shots? Not to mention it only have *56%* the screen area of a 5" phone.


Yeah Apple, why doesn't the 5S have all the features of 20 other phones combined?

GAH! It's like, you're not trying to impress OCN users or something.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Personally i am more interested on what they do to the iPad. iPhone is boring now.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UNOE*
> 
> I like my iPhone but I refuse to pay $100 for $10 more of Nand ram on the 32GB model. The $100 mark up only made since with iPhone 3G
> 
> Base model at launch
> 
> iphone (One) - 4GB
> iPhone 3G - 16GB
> iPhone 3GS - 16GB
> iPhone 4 - 16GB
> iPhone 4S - 16GB
> iPhone 5 - 16GB
> iPhone 5S - 16GB


I think 2x 16GB NAND costs around $30. So it's about $70 mark up.


----------



## AngeloG.

Boring, same thing again. They don't like risks anymore, for the revolutionary people that they always seemed to be.


----------



## UNOE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I _think_ 2x 16GB NAND costs around $30. So it's about $70 mark up.


Its alot higher mark up than that. They dont use only two chips anyway. They use smaller cheaper nand capacities chips.

It only made since to charge $100 more. 4 1/2 years ago with the 3G launch. Now its robbery.

I have owned lots of iPhones I like them, but now in Quarter 4 in 2013. $100 more for extra 16GB of nand is robbery.


----------



## CULLEN

When I first saw the "fingerprint scanner" I though, "I wonder for how much Apple going to sell the fingerprint information to NSA?".

It wouldn't even surprise me if you were required to have your fingerprint scanned in order to use the phone..


----------



## francesthemutes

Hmm, everything seems impressive enough. I've had my 4S for over a year now and love the quality of the device. I think I'll wait to see what the 6 is capable of when that hits. At least I get iOS 7 which looks very good. I like the look of it.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

The finger scanner is the only thing that tingle me fancie.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Nothing stunning tor really draw me personally from my 5. :\

I'll wait on the iPhone 6.


----------



## RatPatrol01

The amount of people afraid of having their fingerprint on file with the government is hilarious. If the NSA wanted your fingerprint, they don't need it from Apple.


----------



## dantoddd

what's the point of having an 64bit phone with only 1gb ram?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> The amount of people afraid of having their fingerprint on file with the government is hilarious. If the NSA wanted your fingerprint, they don't need it from Apple.


You kill somebody. They get your fingerprints but dont know whose they are because its your first records. One second let me run it via Apple finger print data base. We found the killers fingerprint. This is a good thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> what's the point of having an 64bit phone with only 1gb ram?


64-Bit is 2x as fast as 32-Bit Apple thinks. I dont see the point because in PC there is no difference.


----------



## perfectblade

this is kind of genius. not only will it decrease log in time and make it more secure, it also helps justify the continued existence of the i-button thingy at the bottom. if apple's competitors want to emulate this, they're going to have to leave a bit of space at the bottom for a reader as well, marking a move away from the tendency towards digital buttons in order to create a smaller phone-and android phones are already bulky in comparison. that said, it's not a massive upgrade, but a better upgrade than the 4-4s.

the phone market seems to be reaching a more mature state. no one is doing massive, substantial upgrades. the only thing i can think of recently would be the moto x voice implementation, which in theory sounds awesome, but seems buggy in it's current form


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> this is kind of genius. not only will it decrease log in time and make it more secure, it also helps justify the continued existence of the i-button thingy at the bottom. if apple's competitors want to emulate this, they're going to have to leave a bit of space at the bottom for a reader as well, marking a move away from the tendency towards digital buttons in order to create a smaller phone-and android phones are already bulky in comparison. that said, it's not a massive upgrade, but a better upgrade than the 4-4s.
> 
> the phone market seems to be reaching a more mature state. no one is doing massive, substantial upgrades. the only thing i can think of recently would be the moto x voice implementation, which in theory sounds awesome, but seems buggy in it's current form


Another genius thing is it makes purchasing content waaaay easier and faster.


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true at all. iPhones like Macs require little to no maintenance like you describe. iOS specifically is designed so you don't have to manage every little facet. I'm sure you'll all call me a blind defender of Apple but there's so much misinformation in this thread it's scary.


Ok, hang on. I have iOS for my phones and tablets because I don't want to have to tinker for basic information. However, Apple iOS does need some maintenance. If you have too many apps running for far too long unattended, your device will stop responding when it runs out of RAM, with no warning. And yes, your battery dies faster with more apps running silently in the background.

I honestly had to chuck my OC'd and rooted Droid tablet simply because it was a PITA. And my kids stopped using it after 30 seconds. So iPad got my business.

Apple isn't perfect. The hardware on their computers always die, always. "Oh, no big deal, just a bad logic board on your tower. Wait, out of warranty says the Genius (cough, Dillweed, cough). Sorry, proprietary" And can Apple please warranty all these swollen laptop batteries already. We've had plenty of Apple devices in my house (wife is a creative type designer). But lastly, they really don't get hit with viruses. As the home IT guy, I can vouch.

And after having forgot my AppleID and pass several times over, I welcome the fingerprint reader. I'll be getting the device just for that sake.

If you watch the video, they claim, your biometrics are stored locally in hardware:
http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> this is kind of genius. not only will it decrease log in time and make it more secure, it also helps justify the continued existence of the i-button thingy at the bottom. if apple's competitors want to emulate this, they're going to have to leave a bit of space at the bottom for a reader as well, marking a move away from the tendency towards digital buttons in order to create a smaller phone-and android phones are already bulky in comparison. that said, it's not a massive upgrade, but a better upgrade than the 4-4s.
> 
> the phone market seems to be reaching a more mature state. no one is doing massive, substantial upgrades. the only thing i can think of recently would be the moto x voice implementation, which in theory sounds awesome, but seems buggy in it's current form


How is it better then 4 to 4S. 4 to 4S was huge upgrade.

From Single Core to Dual Core
From Crappy GPU to amazing GPU faster then anything out there
From 5 MP to 8MP
Double the RAM.

5S is half the upgrade 4S was.


----------



## L D4WG

Haters gonna hate regardless of what Apple does, even if they made this the absolute most perfect phone, some people just love to hate Apple.

I myself sold my 64GB iPhone 5 just yesterday for $700AUD, im happy to pay the remainder and get the newer phone, its what I do, sell while I can get a good price instead of holding don't the same phone for a few years and then having to fork out the full amount because the phone I have is not worth anything anymore.

I had no issue with the iPhone 5, it was perfectly fast enough , the camera was fine etc, so yes this is a minor update but I feel the product is pretty solid, iOS7 is what im most interested in.

The finger print sensor just seems like a nice little advancement for the home button, I assume it will be included in all future Apple products, its not meant to be revolutionary, just a n addition.

Apples claims that the 5S is 2x faster CPU and GPU was is nice, although like I said, I had no performance issues with the 5, perhaps they need this for the 64bit iOS7.


----------



## Marin

I want the scanner so bad.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynchronicBoost*
> 
> Ok, hang on. I have iOS for my phones and tablets because I don't want to have to tinker for basic information. However, Apple iOS does need some maintenance. If you have too many apps running for far too long unattended, your device will stop responding when it runs out of RAM, with no warning. And yes, your battery dies faster with more apps running silently in the background.
> 
> I honestly had to chuck my OC'd and rooted Droid tablet simply because it was a PITA. And my kids stopped using it after 30 seconds. So iPad got my business.
> 
> Apple isn't perfect. The hardware on their computers always die, always. "Oh, no big deal, just a bad logic board on your tower. Wait, out of warranty says the Genius (cough, Dillweed, cough). Sorry, proprietary" And can Apple please warranty all these swollen laptop batteries already. We've had plenty of Apple devices in my house (wife is a creative type designer). But lastly, they really don't get hit with viruses. As the home IT guy, I can vouch.
> 
> And after having forgot my AppleID and pass several times over, I welcome the fingerprint reader. I'll be getting the device just for that sake.
> 
> If you watch the video, they claim, your biometrics are stored locally in hardware:
> http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch


I like the simplicity of iPad because its a fun device for me. If i wanted more functionality i would have to get Android Tab. Android still needs polishing though especially in Tab side. Stock vs Stock i prefer Android OS for Phones. The only problem i have is that payed apps are still so much better in iOS. I like the fact that Apple app makers build those apps to work for iPhone 5 for example or iPad. That does not exist in Android. There is no uniformity or order.


----------



## Born For TDM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Sort of cool... but I'm still never getting an iPhone till they make the screen larger. It's just too small for me :/


Lmao, the day they make the screen larger is the day i stop using it. The galaxy s4 is the most ridicules thing iv ever laid eyes on. Its like a tablet its so large. What pocket even fits it?


----------



## alexmaia_br

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Born For TDM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Sort of cool... but I'm still never getting an iPhone till they make the screen larger. It's just too small for me :/
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao, the day they make the screen larger is the day i stop using it. The galaxy s4 is the most ridicules thing iv ever laid eyes on. Its like a tablet its so large. What pocket even fits it?
Click to expand...

Same here. I enjoy the screensize.

I'll stick with my 5 for a little while, though. Let's see how it runs after OS upgrade.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Born For TDM*
> 
> Lmao, the day they make the screen larger is the day i stop using it. The galaxy s4 is the most ridicules thing iv ever laid eyes on. Its like a tablet its so large. What pocket even fits it?


1 word: fatties. it was designed for the american market

but seriously, man purses are going mainstream. however, i see the smartphone as a revolution to allow to carry less rather than more. i want widespread nfc adoption, so i only need to carry around 1 small device


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UNOE*
> 
> Its alot higher mark up than that. They dont use only two chips anyway. They use smaller cheaper nand capacities chips.
> 
> It only made since to charge $100 more. 4 1/2 years ago with the 3G launch. Now its robbery.
> 
> I have owned lots of iPhones I like them, but now in Quarter 4 in 2013. $100 more for extra 16GB of nand is robbery.


It is what it is. They are certainly making a lot off it, but if you want the higher capacity it's your only choice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> 64-Bit is 2x as fast as 32-Bit Apple thinks. I dont see the point because in PC there is no difference.


Not quite. The "up to 2x performance" will be a combination of the 64-bit processor, higher clock speed, and improved IPC. (It's also possible that they're using the stock apps, which are now 64-bit, as a basis for comparison.) There was substantial improvements when Apple switched OS X over to 64-bit (and rewrote the stock apps for it) so somewhat of a performance improvement should be present on a mobile device from doing this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> How is it better then 4 to 4S. 4 to 4S was huge upgrade.
> 
> From Single Core to Dual Core
> From Crappy GPU to amazing GPU faster then anything out there
> From 5 MP to 8MP
> Double the RAM.
> 
> 5S is half the upgrade 4S was.


How? Both the processor and the GPU are up to twice as fast as their predecessor. That itself matches the 4 to 4S upgrade. Then you've got the co-processor for motion tracking, etc., the camera lens upgrade w/ dual flash, and other things as well.


----------



## mironccr345

I like it, but I'd like to see what the iPhone 6 has to offer. I'm still rocking my iPhone 4.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Born For TDM*
> 
> Lmao, the day they make the screen larger is the day i stop using it. The galaxy s4 is the most ridicules thing iv ever laid eyes on. Its like a tablet its so large. What pocket even fits it?


Have you ever compared it to a tablet side by side? The Note II is large. The Galaxy S4, not so much. The GS4 easily fits in my pockets and I don't wear baggy clothes.

What's ridiculous is saying the GS4 is close to tablet sized. In fact, this whole thread is full of ridiculous claims by both sides. Ah, must be OCN.


----------



## jetsam

i think ive figured it out,

the iphone 5c, is there just to make the iphone 5S look like a good deal.


----------



## IAmDay

Will be getting my 5C


----------



## PappaSmurfsHarem

I am just not happy about there being no black option for the 5C.

Obviously done on purpose to make people go for the 5S.

If these were the colors of the original ipod nano's I would have been happier, but I just couldn't confidently carry around these phones except the white one, and I don't want white.

I do hope that someone is able to unlock the 5S camera features on the 5C.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetsam*
> 
> i think ive figured it out,
> 
> the iphone 5c, is there just to make the iphone 5S look like a good deal.


Its like iPad 3 to 4. They dropped 3 to favor 4 but still offer 2. Really if they still sold iPhone 5 for $99 you would not see many people get 5S.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Its like iPad 3 to 4. They dropped 3 to favor 4 but still offer 2. Really if they still sold iPhone 5 for $99 you would not see many people get 5S.


To be specific, They offered Ipad2,4 instead of the 2011 Ipad 2, 32nm SOC instead of 45nm which made the battery life a lot better than the old Ipad2.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> To be specific, They offered Ipad2,4 instead of the 2011 Ipad 2, 32nm SOC instead of 45nm which made the battery life a lot better than the old Ipad2.


Thats pretty cool. Did not know that.


----------



## SectorNine50

Nice! That's a really well-implemented fingerprint reader. I wasn't too impressed with how the Atrix did it...


----------



## gsa700

IMO, the reason Android is slow and laggy is that it's built on Java!

Disclaimer: I have an HTC One SV

Java is the slowest buggiest crap since day one. I remember in the 90's when Java came out it would make a Pentium slow to a crawl and then crash Netscape.

Java sucks and I can't believe they built Android on it.

.02


----------



## pcfoo

The 5C is better looking imho, but why would anyone get it as far as "price" is concerned in the US?


Smartphones cannot be activated with US carriers without a data plan
Data plans need to be on 2y extension / new contract for you to get a new device
Considering $50 / month minimum cost for voice/text/data, you will have a cumulative cost of at least $1,200.
The 5S or w/e "premium" device will increase that to $1400.
The 5C will save you $100, or 10.7% before taxes.

Hardly a deal breaker really, and hardly a reason to call the 5C a "cheap" device.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Same product with new skins... it's the COD of cell phones.


----------



## RatPatrol01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> The 5C is better looking imho, but why would anyone get it as far as "price" is concerned in the US?
> 
> 
> Smartphones cannot be activated with US carriers without a data plan
> Data plans need to be on 2y extension / new contract for you to get a new device
> Considering $50 / month minimum cost for voice/text/data, you will have a cumulative cost of at least $1,200.
> The 5S or w/e "premium" device will increase that to $1400.
> The 5C will save you $100, or 10.7% before taxes.
> 
> Hardly a deal breaker really, and hardly a reason to call the 5C a "cheap" device.


That's not the case anymore, as much as Verizon and AT&T want everyone to believe it is. I pay $30/mo for voice/text/data and am not locked into a plan, of course I also had to buy my Nexus 4 outright instead of getting it subsidized but that's where the 5c would make sense anyways.


----------



## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsa700*
> 
> IMO, the reason Android is slow and laggy is that it's built on Java!
> 
> Disclaimer: I have an HTC One SV
> 
> Java is the slowest buggiest crap since day one. I remember in the 90's when Java came out it would make a Pentium slow to a crawl and then crash Netscape.
> 
> Java sucks and I can't believe they built Android on it.
> 
> .02


Android is not built on Java; it's built on C and C++ (See the Android NDK: http://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html).

Android _applications_ run in Java virtual machines.

Java is miles ahead of where it was "day one." The performance loss on modern hardware from modern JVM's is negligible.


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I like the simplicity of iPad because its a fun device for me. If i wanted more functionality i would have to get Android Tab. Android still needs polishing though especially in Tab side. Stock vs Stock i prefer Android OS for Phones. The only problem i have is that payed apps are still so much better in iOS. I like the fact that Apple app makers build those apps to work for iPhone 5 for example or iPad. That does not exist in Android. There is no uniformity or order.


I just want the damn screen to follow when I touch the link. Surfing the web and web shopping, is by far, a better experience on an iPad. It is about how the code is written, not the hardware. For instance, my HP laptop's touchpad was worthless from HP engineers, until some coder got fed up with it and wrote his own code that made the hardware actually work.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> what's the point of having an 64bit phone with only 1gb ram?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> 64-Bit is 2x as fast as 32-Bit Apple thinks. I dont see the point because in PC there is no difference.


I can't believe you guys are on OCN using PC architecture to characterize a phone? How do you know that the bit size and instruction sets at 64 bit don't generate better IPC for their newer processors over the older processors?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsa700*
> 
> IMO, the reason Android is slow and laggy is that it's built on Java!
> 
> Disclaimer: I have an HTC One SV
> 
> Java is the slowest buggiest crap since day one. I remember in the 90's when Java came out it would make a Pentium slow to a crawl and then crash Netscape.
> 
> Java sucks and I can't believe they built Android on it.
> 
> .02


I don't think you know what you're talking about.

First: Android is not built on Java. It's built on C.

Second: Java in its current state is very fast. You either are still thinking of Java when it first came out or you're just listening to hearsay from people who don't know jack about programming. Badly used Java can become a resource hog and slow down performance, but the same can be said of every language. Additionally, in my experience, Java is generally faster than similar applications written in higher level languages more common these days (Python, PHP, etc).


----------



## tubers

Excuse me guys, but does anyone know what exact GPU the 5S now has?

I'm assuming it's a 4 core variant of the iPhone 5's.. but maybe it's even a 6XX PowerVR?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *btupsx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Actually, no android device has ever come close to the iphone 5 in vertical scrolling smoothness. I can't take anyone seriously if they make that claim. It takes 20 seconds for an UNDENIABLE side by side comparison. Also, although I love android, it's very sad that we need twice the cores, twice the clockspeed and twice the RAM for everyday performance that is subpar to iphone in terms of fluidity and free of lag. The issue has become such that all the spec geeks flat out deny any lag on their touchjizz phones even when I blatantly prove it right in front of their eyes. I counted 14 stutters in 20 seconds of scrolling. They usually count none.
> 
> Oh, I forgot what forum I'm on. Iphone sux kill it wif fire
> 
> Source: Owned S4, HTC One, S3 i747, N4, i9100, 4s. Own Moto X, Iphone 5
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say I agree with you 100% on this. In my experience, iOS is butter smooth, Windows is just a bit behind, while Android is not as smooth out of the box, and it just gets worse from there. Mind you the only iPhone I've ever owned was the 3GS, have a Droid Razr now, and prefer the basic concept of Android over iOS, and always have.
Click to expand...

Windows is smoother by a lot, IMO.

Source: Owned iPhone 4, HTC 8X. Tried N4 + N7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatPatrol01*
> 
> The amount of people afraid of having their fingerprint on file with the government is hilarious. If the NSA wanted your fingerprint, they don't need it from Apple.


*Finally someone that gets it right!*


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Windows is smoother by a lot, IMO.
> 
> Source: Owned iPhone 4, HTC 8X. Tried N4 + N7.
> *Finally someone that gets it right!*


Windows Phone OS is probably the most efficient phone OS out ATM IMO. Even my buddies single core Windows phone 7.8 is smooth as my S4. Android no matter what you do to it isn't really that smooth, what is kinda sad still. But app performance on android has always been pretty decent IMO. iOS is so archaic to me, Though iOS 7 looks like a big improvement on the UI. My next phone would be a windows phone if it only had the app support android has.

Liking the Figure print reader though, was always my favorite way to log into my old thinkpad that had one. Wish my S4 had one as well, Though I do have hover figure tech that doesn't get used as it should. Though I had a iphone 3gs before getting my first android phone (HTC Desire) and just hated it. The OS sucked and the phone was pretty slow compared to the desire I got to replace it with. Probably wouldn't waste money on a apple phone again.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tubers*
> 
> Excuse me guys, but does anyone know what exact GPU the 5S now has?
> 
> I'm assuming it's a 4 core variant of the iPhone 5's.. but maybe it's even a 6XX PowerVR?


The 4S uses the SGX543MP2. The 5 is using the SGX543MP3 but with higher clocks for roughly two times performance.

As great as it would be I don't expect the 5S to be using 600 series graphics at this point. I think it's an SGX554MP2 or MP3.


----------



## Volvo

Some improvements, no real innovation.

Moving on...


----------



## MrLime

What most fascinates me is that people keep saying they're not doing anything new. I rarely see these comments in any other phone announcement thread when that's exactly the case. Why does everyone hold back their toughest critiques for the iPhone but treat every other phone for what it is?


----------



## Newbie2009

LOL NSA approved fingerprint scanning.


----------



## sidewaykill

My Nexus 4 is very, very, smooth. Also, what is the point of the iPhone 5C (in Australia anyway), if they are selling it for $730 and $800 AUD respectively?
Why even bother releasing it here?


----------



## GermanyChris

Another exciting iPhone thread. it'd seem like everyone would get bored with these but I guess not.

Apple did another Apple update, very staid and predicable. Guess what The iPad update will also be predicable, then there will be the Haswell rMBP release etc.


----------



## UnAimed

The new CPU 40x faster and the GPU 56x faster, also the first ever phone with a 64-Bit CPU/OS


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> Another exciting iPhone thread. it'd seem like everyone would get bored with these but I guess not.
> 
> Apple did another Apple update, very staid and predicable. Guess what The iPad update will also be predicable, then there will be the Haswell rMBP release etc.


Predictability is not synonymous with how good the updates are.

Sure, we predict there will be a Haswell rMBP, but so what? That's a good thing.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Stupid. They took the iPhone 5, put a plastic cover on it and called it the 5C and STILL want $549 without a contract. For 3rd world countries my ass.


----------



## FCSElite

Lol
Quote:


> "The PC world made the transition from 32-bit to 64-bit and it took years. Today you're going to see that Apple is going to do it on one day," Apple said today during a press event attended by CNET.


Taken from Gamespot

What a joke


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaba*
> 
> Nothing like having a fingerprint scanner that sends my fingerprint over to the Apple servers for "safe keeping". Locally stored prints? doubt it.
> 
> iSheep are excited though I am sure. Now you can buy your apps and other items on the apple store with your finger! its fast and easy because typing your username and password was so...freaking..hard to do


Google has a lot more information, personal information.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FCSElite*
> 
> Lol
> Taken from Gamespot
> 
> What a joke


So everything is 64bit now?


----------



## Volvo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> What most fascinates me is that people keep saying they're not doing anything new. I rarely see these comments in any other phone announcement thread when that's exactly the case. Why does everyone hold back their toughest critiques for the iPhone but treat every other phone for what it is?


Because the iPhone is by far the most overpriced phone there is on the market.

To demand that price you'd think they'd innovate something but no. All they did was sell a minimalist design.


----------



## batman900

Sigh, another boring design. I have a 4s for work and a 5 for personal use. I used to have the older models but as time goes on they slow down. The only reason I keep using them is reliability. It's the same reason we buy Honda and Toyotas. Some day I hope reliability and excitement can be combined.


----------



## Artikbot

Great. 2007 called. They want their design back.

Seriously Apple. I understand that the iPhone looks are your trademark, but... Ever thought about, you know, updating it?


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FCSElite*
> 
> Lol
> Taken from Gamespot
> 
> What a joke


IDK if most of you remember when apple tried to make a big deal about the G5 processor in their old Powermac being 64bit and that it would bring massive performance increases. They even made OSX a fully 64bit OS as well, yet performance still remained about the same.

64bit allows you to use more then 4gb of RAM on a single application, though most apps are more then fine being 32bit and doing more then that tends to be extra work that is not needed.


----------



## CJRhoades

Just finished watching the keynote. Looks like an all around excellent update.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> Nice! That's a really well-implemented fingerprint reader. I wasn't too impressed with how the Atrix did it...


Precisely this. The Atrix may have done it first but it looks like Apple's actually put some effort into it instead of just slapping a sensor on there and calling it a day like Motorola did. Before anyone blasts me for this, the Atrix has been my primary phone for nearly 2 years now. The fingerprint scanner was a nifty toy for the first couple months, but it's so slow and inaccurate (often takes 2-3 tries to unlock the phone) that I haven't bothered with it since. If Apples implementation works as well as shown in the keynote, this will be very impressive indeed.


----------



## s13shaka

yet another mis step in the past few years, bye bye apple it was fun seeing you in the spotlight for the past decade.

There were only so many good ideas left behind by Jobs, it seems like the well has run dry

they have a non visionary ceo and the company will end up where it was before the boom

Their stock dropped 3.5% yesterday afternoon after the announcement of the 5s and 5c, a very telling sign


----------



## ar3f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnAimed*
> 
> The new CPU 40x faster and the GPU 56x faster, also the first ever phone with a 64-Bit CPU/OS


64-bit is good when you have the RAM for it to be useful and the 64-bit coded apps; since 64-bit programs do not run on 32-bit hardware, it will take a while till the benefits of the 64-bit architecture will show some real world results.
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/356750,the-64-bit-cpu-in-the-iphone-5s-is-meaningless-marketing-bluster.aspx

Edit:
Just to avoid confusions, 32-bit programs can be run on a 64-bit architecture on a vitrualization layer - like WoW (Windows on Windows 64) in Windows 7 64-bit. I don't know if iPhone 5S has such virtualization software.


----------



## gsa700

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> Android is not built on Java; it's built on C and C++ (See the Android NDK: http://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html).
> 
> Android _applications_ run in Java virtual machines.
> 
> Java is miles ahead of where it was "day one." The performance loss on modern hardware from modern JVM's is negligible.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> I don't think you know what you're talking about.
> 
> First: Android is not built on Java. It's built on C.
> 
> Second: Java in its current state is very fast. You either are still thinking of Java when it first came out or you're just listening to hearsay from people who don't know jack about programming. Badly used Java can become a resource hog and slow down performance, but the same can be said of every language. Additionally, in my experience, Java is generally faster than similar applications written in higher level languages more common these days (Python, PHP, etc).


You guys are probably right. I do know the Linux kernel isn't java.

However, I've been around a while and I tell you that anytime you see Java and end user application in the same sentence, it equals slow buggy apps. And they look like crap too. Even the fonts in the apps look bad because they don't use the system font renderer, Java apparently has it's own for portability.

See Adobe CS apps for java sucking.


----------



## DesertRat

I have to admit, I wish there were Android phones with built-in biometrics like this. I honestly was wondering when/of apple would integrate this kind of thing; that lil round button was just calling for becoming a fingerprint reader.


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar3f*
> 
> 64-bit is good when you have the RAM for it to be useful and the 64-bit coded apps; since 64-bit programs do not run on 32-bit hardware, it will take a while till the benefits of the 64-bit architecture will show some real world results.
> http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/356750,the-64-bit-cpu-in-the-iphone-5s-is-meaningless-marketing-bluster.aspx
> 
> Edit:
> Just to avoid confusions, 32-bit programs can be run on a 64-bit architecture on a vitrualization layer - like WoW (Windows on Windows 64) in Windows 7 64-bit. I don't know if iPhone 5S has such virtualization software.


Apple said iOS 7 has a native 64-bit kernel and "all built-in apps have been re-engineered. So people will notice the benefits from day 1. Furthermore, Apple has not yet released the size of the ram in the new iPhone 5S.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> IDK if most of you remember when apple tried to make a big deal about the G5 processor in their old Powermac being 64bit and that it would bring massive performance increases. They even made OSX a fully 64bit OS as well, yet performance still remained about the same.
> 
> 64bit allows you to use more then 4gb of RAM on a single application, though most apps are more then fine being 32bit and doing more then that tends to be extra work that is not needed.


There's more to "64-bit" than that. Also there were appreciable improvements between Leopard (32-bit) and Snow Leopard (64-bit) and the same should be true of iOS 6 and iOS 7.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar3f*
> 
> 64-bit is good when you have the RAM for it to be useful and the 64-bit coded apps; since 64-bit programs do not run on 32-bit hardware, it will take a while till the benefits of the 64-bit architecture will show some real world results.
> http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/356750,the-64-bit-cpu-in-the-iphone-5s-is-meaningless-marketing-bluster.aspx
> 
> Edit:
> Just to avoid confusions, 32-bit programs can be run on a 64-bit architecture on a vitrualization layer - like WoW (Windows on Windows 64) in Windows 7 64-bit. I don't know if iPhone 5S has such virtualization software.
> From what I remember, 64-bit OS X could run both 32-bit and 64-bit apps simultaneous on its kernel without (as far as I know) any kind of virtualization. The same should be true of iOS.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsa700*
> 
> You guys are probably right. I do know the Linux kernel isn't java.
> 
> However, I've been around a while and I tell you that anytime you see Java and end user application in the same sentence, it equals slow buggy apps. And they look like crap too. Even the fonts in the apps look bad because they don't use the system font renderer, Java apparently has it's own for portability.
> 
> See Adobe CS apps for java sucking.


Personally not the biggest fan of Java, If you ever used the PMS called Opera then you know how buggy a java based app can be.
Pretty much need to close IE on the machines atleast once a day to close the java VM, as Opera itself runs on a app server and you need to use IE to launch it on a terminal.

Though Java was a smart choice for Google.
You can port Android to any platform and still have the apps work without needing to recompile.
So really you could buy a windows 8 tablet toss android on it and still be able to use all the android apps you want as well as windows apps.

These days Java is just as good as .net
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> There's more to "64-bit" than that. Also there were appreciable improvements between Leopard (32-bit) and Snow Leopard (64-bit) and the same should be true of iOS 6 and iOS 7.


While some applications could benefit from 64bit even if it isn't using more then 4gb, most simply will not or not enough to warrant the extra development cost/time. Plus 64bit apps are not backward compatible so anyone stuck on a 32bit chip cant use it.

Difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard are more then just a simple evolution to 64bit, they cut down overall footprint of the OS and optimized parts of the OS. Kinda like windows 7 was a optimized vista. 64bit still is more suited for apps that need to use more then 4gb, your mostly wasting your time/money as a dev ATM adopting 64bit if you don't need it.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Oh I see OCN. Plastic can only be good on Android phones. Got it.


I think the point being made was the fact that apple followers picked on a lot of android phones for using plastic and now that the iphone is made from plastic and as expensive as the HTC One, it's all of a sudden ok and stylish. Not good because it's plastic and still expensive.


----------



## Awsan

People are still arguing about this?
~popcorn~


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Personally not the biggest fan of Java, If you ever used the PMS called Opera then you know how buggy a java based app can be.
> Pretty much need to close IE on the machines atleast once a day to close the java VM, as Opera itself runs on a app server and you need to use IE to launch it on a terminal.
> 
> Though Java was a smart choice for Google.
> You can port Android to any platform and still have the apps work without needing to recompile.
> So really you could buy a windows 8 tablet toss android on it and still be able to use all the android apps you want as well as windows apps.
> 
> These days Java is just as good as .net
> While some applications could benefit from 64bit even if it isn't using more then 4gb, most simply will not or not enough to warrant the extra development cost/time. Plus 64bit apps are not backward compatible so anyone stuck on a 32bit chip cant use it.
> 
> Difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard are more then just a simple evolution to 64bit, they cut down overall footprint of the OS and optimized parts of the OS. Kinda like windows 7 was a optimized vista. 64bit still is more suited for apps that need to use more then 4gb, your mostly wasting your time/money as a dev ATM adopting 64bit if you don't need it.


The footprint was cut because the nixed the PowerPC code


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> While some applications could benefit from 64bit even if it isn't using more then 4gb, most simply will not or not enough to warrant the extra development cost/time. Plus 64bit apps are not backward compatible so anyone stuck on a 32bit chip cant use it.
> 
> Difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard are more then just a simple evolution to 64bit, they cut down overall footprint of the OS and optimized parts of the OS. Kinda like windows 7 was a optimized vista. 64bit still is more suited for apps that need to use more then 4gb, your mostly wasting your time/money as a dev ATM adopting 64bit if you don't need it.


And what makes you think that they haven't optimised iOS 7 for the 64-bit processor? They've rewritten the stock apps to support it, so that's something that we know of -- and Apple doesn't really talk about that kind of depth much so no one knows what else they've done.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> And what makes you think that they haven't optimised iOS 7 for the 64-bit processor? They've rewritten the stock apps to support it, so that's something that we know of -- and Apple doesn't really talk about that kind of depth much so no one knows what else they've done.


First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.

64bit on iOS 7 will probably be no different then when they added 64bit support to OSX tiger.

Plus your overestimating the advantages 64bit brings, your not running premiere pro on a iphone. Stuff like Angry birds will gain nothing moving to 64bit.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think the point being made was the fact that apple followers picked on a lot of android phones for using plastic and now that the iphone is made from plastic and as expensive as the HTC One, it's all of a sudden ok and stylish. Not good because it's plastic and still expensive.


Well technically its polycarbonate like Nokias...and come in a variety of colors...like Nokias....and are overpriced...NOT like Nokias.
I would agree that even though I would welcome the color options and the polycarbonate body to the iPhone line, it is pretty ironic that iPhone users would bash other phones for being plastic and now will rave about plastic phones they have. I think they Apple should have avoided the 5c all together and just offered the 5s in classic body of colored body. The 5c is sort of a pointless sku at $649 or even $599...just buy a 5s...or buy a 5 for less.

And the 64bit claim is a gimmick at this point. Desktop class architecture? That is funny stuff right there!


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.
> 
> 64bit on iOS 7 will probably be no different then when they added 64bit support to OSX tiger.
> 
> Plus your overestimating the advantages 64bit brings, your not running premiere pro on a iphone. Stuff like Angry birds will gain nothing moving to 64bit.


people always forget that you are basically comparing an optimized system (console) to pc. who knows for sure?


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.
> 
> 64bit on iOS 7 will probably be no different then when they added 64bit support to OSX tiger.
> 
> Plus your overestimating the advantages 64bit brings, your not running premiere pro on a iphone. Stuff like Angry birds will gain nothing moving to 64bit.


As much complaining as I've heard about the new iOS from the couple people I know who write stuff for it I think the change might be a bit deeper. I'm saying that as hearsay, but seems buttressed by number of beta releases.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> people always forget that you are basically comparing an optimized system (console) to pc. who knows for sure?


I wouldn't call Phones a Optimized system like a console.

Phones are just small pc's really. Even android uses java for apps, what will never give you anywhere near bare metal access. No different then a .net app on windows.

especially when phone hardware varies so much between each other.


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynchronicBoost*
> 
> I can't believe you guys are on OCN using PC architecture to characterize a phone? How do you know that the bit size and instruction sets at 64 bit don't generate better IPC for their newer processors over the older processors?


As per my understand, which i admit is fairly limited, the principle distinction between 32 and 64 is the number of memory registers. with only 1GB to play with, ram is the bottle neck for the type of instruction sets that can be run on the 5s. whatever new instruction that are running on the 5s should also be easily implemented on a 32bit system.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I wouldn't call Phones a Optimized system like a console.
> 
> Phones are just small pc's really. Even android uses java for apps, what will never give you anywhere near bare metal access. No different then a .net app on windows.
> 
> especially when phone hardware varies so much between each other.


android is not iphones. iproducts are actually optimized, which is why they get away with comparatively low specs. look it up


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> android is not iphones


Android is not iPhones. You heard it here first folks.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> android is not iphones. iproducts are actually optimized, which is why they get away with comparatively low specs. look it up


They dont get away with low specs. its just that most games which are the most demanding things are build for iOS and ported for Android. A Quad Core will show no benefit. Also iPhone have very fast GPU so no problem there. 1GB is still enough. The feel of OS has nothing to do with specs really.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> They dont get away with low specs. its just that most games which are the most demanding things are build for iOS and ported for Android. A Quad Core will show no benefit. Also iPhone have very fast GPU so no problem there. 1GB is still enough. The feel of OS has nothing to do with specs really.


yeah but also because they are optimized. it's pretty hilarious to watch android fans hate on iphone because "specs" all the time, when they fundamentally don't even understand what an iphone *is*


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> android is not iphones. iproducts are actually optimized, which is why they get away with comparatively low specs. look it up


iOS still has hardware that varies, you simply can not do bare metal programming. Plus iOS apps really don't performance any better then the android counterparts, other then games what tend to be developed using iOS anyways. Plus iPhones tend to have better GPU's most of the time compared to simular android phones, yet the CPU side tends to be pretty weak. My S4 has more single and multithread power then a iphone 5, and around the same amount of GPU power. I can run circles around it in many apps, yet some games perform down right better on iOS.

Though Windows Phone is another example, WP can make old hardware feel a lot smoother then ether iOS or Android could. Still doesn't make it anything less then a computer, apps are apps. How the app works on phones isn't any different then how they work on PC's.

^ also I know what I phone is, trash packaged into a nice box.








Sure android might lag sometimes when flipping through home screens, but app performance is top notch especially when you have faster hardware. Though I have a live wallpaper and bunch of widgets, while apple still forces people to look at a god ugly wall of apps. Most of what makes iOS 7 much nicer then before was all the crap they copied from Google and MS. Nothing Original AGAIN.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> They dont get away with low specs. its just that most games which are the most demanding things are build for iOS and ported for Android. A Quad Core will show no benefit. Also iPhone have very fast GPU so no problem there. 1GB is still enough. The feel of OS has nothing to do with specs really.


LOL, Login to steam? tired of this iphone vs android stuff


----------



## Tiger S.

If knowing your location, your social life, and listening to your conversations wasn't enough for the NSA. They will now have your finger prints. A record with the feds without even committing a crime. smh


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiger S.*
> 
> If knowing your location, your social life, and listening to your conversations wasn't enough for the NSA. They will now have your finger prints. A record with the feds without even committing a crime. smh


Hey Mr. Tin foil hat
You know they probably already have your figure print, almost everyone gets theirs taken when they are kids so they already beat you to it.

Though figure print reader makes logging in 100x easier. Had one on my old laptop and used it all the time, best way to log in IMO.
Now sammy or HTC needs to build a phone with that tech.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiger S.*
> 
> If knowing your location, your social life, and listening to your conversations wasn't enough for the NSA. They will now have your finger prints. A record with the feds without even committing a crime. smh


The FBI controls the AFIS, the database where your fingerprints are inserted into if you're born in the US or become a US citizen. I'm certain the NSA already has access to your fingerprints, soooo.....


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> The FBI controls the AFIS, the database where your fingerprints are inserted into if you're born in the US or become a US citizen. I'm certain the NSA already has access to your fingerprints, soooo.....


Welcome to Canada.

We live the american dream, without NSA watching you and without $17 000 000 000 000 debt.

EDIT: The grass is green and the girls are pretty too


----------



## robbo2

Love my S4 and it's giant 1080p screen









Honestly though, I just don't see anything for me with this phone compared to the competition. Add to that the fact that this phone will retail for around $900 in Australia, it has no attractions.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> yeah but also because they are optimized. it's pretty hilarious to watch android fans hate on iphone because "specs" all the time, when they fundamentally don't even understand what an iphone *is*


Android has more of that Windows PC approach which does almost everything with RAW performance. In a way software rendering instead of hardware rendering which is much better in power and speed. When i compare my

iPad 3 - 1GHz x 2 (A9 Core) + (Very Powerful GPU) + 1GB RAM
Nexus 4 - 1.5GHz x 4 (A15 Core) + (Very Powerfull GPU) + 2GB RAM

You can clearly see Nexus is much faster but in real world iPad 3 feels faster and with its build in apps even faster in most cases.

Now take a third party app that play .mkv via software rendering because hardware/OS does not support it.

Nexus 4 Destroys iPad 3. I mean Destroys.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> Welcome to Canada.
> 
> We live the american dream, without NSA watching you and without $17 000 000 000 000 debt.
> 
> EDIT: The grass is green and the girls are pretty too


User's Avatar makes post.

No but really, an Ideal phone would be one of the newer S4's or Moto X's running iOS. My problem isn't with the the actual phones but with Android. It's just stupid how Apple refuses to increase their screen sizes.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Imagine if they release an iPhone 5 was 1 mm wider and had a truly edge to edge glass display. The phone wouldn't be any bigger than it is right now but god would that display be to kill for. They could have done it. Really that could, but between a Steve Jobs legacy and perceived battery constraints, they didn't. Had they have made the iPhone 5 like that or even the 5S, people would go apple nuts again over a phone like that. Their boring 4s update, lackluster iphone 5, and now another boring 5s update is going to really take its toll on the fanbase. iPhone 6 has got to raise the bar on all levels or the iPhone will just sink down to just an "average" phone.


----------



## Schoat333

The 4" screen is still too small. They need to make a 4.5"-5" model before I will ever own another iPhone.

All of the upgrades they made from the 5 are just gimmicks. If you have a 5, you would really just be paying for the same phone with a new letter attached.


----------



## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsa700*
> 
> You guys are probably right. I do know the Linux kernel isn't java.
> 
> However, I've been around a while and I tell you that anytime you see Java and end user application in the same sentence, it equals slow buggy apps. And they look like crap too. Even the fonts in the apps look bad because they don't use the system font renderer, Java apparently has it's own for portability.
> 
> See Adobe CS apps for java sucking.


I'm not sure what apps you've been using, but an unskilled or lazy programmer will create slow and crappy apps (the garbage collector is your friend and enemy all at the same time). The only apps I use on my phone are ones that perform well, there are a lot of them out there... There are also a lot that don't.

The look and feel of an app is entirely up to the developer.

Your impression of Java is very dated, which is probably because "you've been around for a while..."


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Imagine if they release an iPhone 5 was 1 mm wider and had a truly edge to edge glass display. The phone wouldn't be any bigger than it is right now but god would that display be to kill for. They could have done it. Really that could, but between a Steve Jobs legacy and perceived battery constraints, they didn't. Had they have made the iPhone 5 like that or even the 5S, people would go apple nuts again over a phone like that. Their boring 4s update, lackluster iphone 5, and now another boring 5s update is going to really take its toll on the fanbase. iPhone 6 has got to raise the bar on all levels or the iPhone will just sink down to just an "average" phone.


>implying that iphones aren't already mediocre.

iOS while smooth is still the most boarding thing out there. Honestly why is it so hard for them to allow users to have widgets on the home page.

I would rather have the iphone run WP 8 then iOS TBH. Other then lacking in app support, WP8 is still the most efficient phone OS out ATM. Plus Multi Tasking still is pretty mediocre in iOS.

Edge to Edge screen would be nice, but the screen needs to be around 4.2". Also would like to get rid of all buttons, I loved the one screen buttons of my old Motorola phone.


----------



## MrLime

I can't wait for the Galaxy S5 or the next nexus phone to be announced. I'm sure we'll all agree on just how unnecessary 64bit is then too.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiger S.*
> 
> If knowing your location, your social life, and listening to your conversations wasn't enough for the NSA. They will now have your finger prints. A record with the feds without even committing a crime. smh


I'm pretty sure they don't keep your actual fingerprint on file. Given the tech-saavy nature of many Apple users (yes not everyone is the stereotypical college freshman who uses it just for iTunes), I doubt they'd get away with storing your fingerprints esp. with today's political climate on privacy. It'd be more likely (and easier to implement) a system where the phone takes your fingerprint template and runs a hashing algorithm to it. The phone sends the hash to Apple's servers and every time you use the fingerprint scanner on your phone, it compares the hash to that on the server. It'd maintain your privacy and it's easier to compare two hashes than it is to compare two images.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> >implying that iphones aren't already mediocre.
> 
> iOS while smooth is still the most boarding thing out there. Honestly why is it so hard for them to allow users to have widgets on the home page.
> 
> I would rather have the iphone run WP 8 then iOS TBH. Other then lacking in app support, WP8 is still the most efficient phone OS out ATM. Plus Multi Tasking still is pretty mediocre in iOS.
> 
> Edge to Edge screen would be nice, but the screen needs to be around 4.2". Also would like to get rid of all buttons, I loved the one screen buttons of my old Motorola phone.


MS' marketing *sucks*. I personally prefer the UI of WP8 myself, but I use Android simply because there's more/better apps for it. It's a circular problem: I don't want to use WP8 until there's more people (and by extension more devs) for it, and it's people like me who's part of the problem of low adoption rates.

I feel it's the same thing that happened with the Zune. Superior alternative to all the other options out there yet no one knows about it which in turn makes it no fun to use.


----------



## wutang61

The 5s is as expected. Cpu/gpu boost( 64 bit is very cool) some new feature like Siri, in this case a fingerprint scanner. Some form of a camera upgrade and improved battery life. Also a dedicated processor for the accelerometer and gyroscope is pretty cool.

I don't know how anyone can be "disappointed" the "S" models are always just performance improments and tweaks to a set design.

As far as the cute comments about apple having your fingerprints on file, I personally can care less. The FBI has mine on file right now. Standard proceedure for concealed carry.

The amount of apple flame on this forum is hilarious.


----------



## dejanh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> I'm pretty sure they don't keep your actual fingerprint on file. Given the tech-saavy nature of many Apple users (yes not everyone is the stereotypical college freshman who uses it just for iTunes), I doubt they'd get away with storing your fingerprints esp. with today's political climate on privacy. It'd be more likely (and easier to implement) a system where the phone takes your fingerprint template and runs a hashing algorithm to it. The phone sends the hash to Apple's servers and every time you use the fingerprint scanner on your phone, it compares the hash to that on the server. It'd maintain your privacy and it's easier to compare two hashes than it is to compare two images.
> 
> snip...


They don't need to keep your fingerprint on file. They only need the hash and the algorithm that produces it to have your fingerprint. Just like your fingerprint is unique, so is the hash of your fingerprint. Just saying









Also, today's political climate and populous attitude is quite permissive of privacy invasion. People simply don't care about their information being stored and mined - Lest We Forget.


----------



## ar3f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnAimed*
> 
> Apple said iOS 7 has a native 64-bit kernel and "all built-in apps have been re-engineered. So people will notice the benefits from day 1. Furthermore, Apple has not yet released the size of the ram in the new iPhone 5S.


You are correct.
My point, which I failed to present coherently, was that 64-bit Apps will not run on 32-bit hardware unless some virtualization environment is provided. Since it is difficult and economically not feasable to code Apps in 64-bit (32-bit users will not buy), the 64-bit advantages will be minimal at least till 64-bit hardware will be largely used by consumers.
iPhone 5S/C will be OK running older, 32-bit Apps, but the iPhone 5 and lower numbers will not be able to run the new, 64-bit Apps - if any, pending Apple strategy.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> It's not really blind fanboyism when it's fact...Spec wise, it's a better phone all around. Performance wise, it won't even be close. It just doesnt have a 100" screen. Benchmarks will be hilarious.


Or you can wait a few months and then have Android 64bit ultra fast CPUs, the benefit being all apps automatically run in 64bit due to the nature of dalvik/java...iOS apps need a specific 64bit version, I believe.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.


You do realize that there are tangible performance benefits from using 64bit? That's why a lot of people say to make Minecraft run under Java 64bit, higher performance and it can use more RAM.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> These days Java is just as good as .net


For performance? _Maybe..._
For APIs? Hell no.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> I can't wait for the Galaxy S5 or the next nexus phone to be announced. I'm sure we'll all agree on just how unnecessary 64bit is then too.


It's kind of unnecessary on the iPhone with 2GBs, but I don't think Droid is going to transition until they start packing 4GBs of RAM, which is clearly not that far.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> For performance? _Maybe..._
> For APIs? Hell no.
> It's kind of unnecessary on the iPhone with 2GBs, but I don't think Droid is going to transition until they start packing 4GBs of RAM, which is clearly not that far.


Galaxy Note3 & Galaxy Note 10.1(2014) Already comes with 3GB of LPDDR3-1600. I expect it the GS V to follow the trend next year, other competitors are likely to match that quantity for their flagships next year.

But 4 GB might be far away still as I expect most early 2014 highend products to use Snapdragon 800/Exynos 5420/Tegra4(i) which are are 32bit. A57/A53 based SOCs would be native 64bit, but their ETA is a bit mirky.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> For performance? _Maybe..._
> For APIs? Hell no.
> It's kind of unnecessary on the iPhone with 2GBs, but I don't think Droid is going to transition until they start packing 4GBs of RAM, which is clearly not that far.


64 bit architecture and 64 bit memory addressing are two different things. You can have one without the other. It very much has a purpose here. Unnecessary? Yes but so are most things in the world of consumer technology.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> For performance? _Maybe..._
> For APIs? Hell no.
> It's kind of unnecessary on the iPhone with 2GBs, but I don't think Droid is going to transition until they start packing 4GBs of RAM, which is clearly not that far.
> 
> 
> 
> 64 bit architecture and 64 bit memory addressing are two different things. You can have one without the other. It very much has a purpose here. Unnecessary? Yes but so are most things in the world of consumer technology.
Click to expand...

Still, it's unnecessary, no performance improvements and just a marketing gimmick TBH


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Still, it's unnecessary, no performance improvements and just a marketing gimmick TBH


the phone market is defined by gimmicks really. people buy new generations of phones purely as fashion statements. google and apple are getting rich because they figured out a way to market tech like designers market clothes, ie mindlessly get "the new thing" just because it's new and "in"

even guys are becoming metrosexual "good consumers" now. i'm steadily losing faith in humanity


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> the phone market is defined by gimmicks really. people new generations of phones purely as fashion statements.


I will probably wait a gen my old phone is still fine and very fast the trick is to not update your IOS since why would you. (unless there are really really important fixes)


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Still, it's unnecessary, no performance improvements and just a marketing gimmick TBH


I know you're on the wind up.

64 bit addresses: > 4 GB memory can be used.
64 bit instructions- More data can be put into a given CPU instruction (such as "add this big number that doesn't fit in 32 bit instructions). This leads to gains in speed in certain cases. Where are these benefits most visible right now? The new graphics processor, camera/software imagining technology, and fingerprint sensor they introduced along side this new architecture.

Necessary? No. Cool? Yes. Would any other phone out their benefit from it? Definitely.

It's consumer technology. Gimmicks are the reason this site stays fresh.


----------



## Bonkers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Sort of cool... but I'm still never getting an iPhone till they make the screen larger. It's just too small for me :/


I have the exact same thoughts.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonkers*
> 
> I have the exact same thoughts.


How did people in the 80's feel?


People use the most rediculous arguments to buy or not buy a product, it makes me laugh so much i'm thinking of doing a stand up gig just with jokes about consumerism.
No one will be amused because all the jokes will be true.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Still, it's unnecessary, no performance improvements and just a marketing gimmick TBH
> 
> 
> 
> the phone market is defined by gimmicks really. people buy new generations of phones purely as fashion statements. google and apple are getting rich because they figured out a way to market tech like designers market clothes, ie mindlessly get "the new thing" just because it's new and "in"
> 
> even guys are becoming metrosexual "good consumers" now. i'm steadily losing faith in humanity
Click to expand...

Problem with this is that they're starting to lose this charm. Have you looked at the nosedive that AAPL took?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Still, it's unnecessary, no performance improvements and just a marketing gimmick TBH
> 
> 
> 
> I know you're on the wind up.
> 
> 64 bit addresses: > 4 GB memory can be used.
> 64 bit instructions- More data can be put into a given CPU instruction (such as "add this big number that doesn't fit in 32 bit instructions). This leads to gains in speed in certain cases. Where are these benefits most visible right now? The new graphics processor, camera/software imagining technology, and fingerprint sensor they introduced along side this new architecture.
> 
> Necessary? No. Cool? Yes. Would any other phone out their benefit from it? Definitely.
> 
> It's consumer technology. Gimmicks are the reason this site stays fresh.
Click to expand...

I know. I'm a programmer, thanks. I was under the impression it was addresses first. Instructions: sure, it might help, but not many apps use


Code:


long

s or


Code:


ulong

s, at least of the few of which I've seen the source code for. And sure, it can also help with other instructions, but it's not going to give a measurable performance gain by itself (even if it does, it will be .1% or less, specially with the IPC improvements in the A7).

It's just a gimmick. And no, most other phones would not benefit from it by much, at least not quite yet.

I rest my case.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> the phone market is defined by gimmicks really. people buy new generations of phones purely as fashion statements. google and apple are getting rich because they figured out a way to market tech like designers market clothes, ie mindlessly get "the new thing" just because it's new and "in"
> 
> even guys are becoming metrosexual "good consumers" now. i'm steadily losing faith in humanity


It seems really hypocritical to criticize people for buying into the latest tech when you're running a MBPr. Those aren't known for being cost-effective, cheap devices.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> How did people in the 80's feel?
> 
> 
> People use the most rediculous arguments to buy or not buy a product, it makes me laugh so much i'm thinking of doing a stand up gig just with jokes about consumerism.
> No one will be amused because all the jokes will be true.


I don't see how you could call people finding the iPhone screen too small to be a ridiculous argument?

There is a pretty good reason why _every_ flagship phone released in the last 12 months or more that isn't an iPhone, has a bigger screen than an iPhone.

A large part of the market who buy flagships likes larger screens.

After coming from a Galaxy S, to Galaxy S3, there is no way in hell I could ever pay actual money to use a smaller screen and bigger would be the only change I'd be willing to make.


----------



## Arizonian

If Android phones had a way to include an iMatch app that would allow access to all my 2700 songs I have in the cloud I would be swayed from iPhones. 16 GB storage dosent cover what I need on my phone with over 1000 songs purchased through iTunes and the rest downloaded from CD.

I'm excited for 5S upgrading my aging 4S and looking foward to twice the speed. I definitely don't like the iPhone camera so I'm hoping this next version has a much needed improvement that's visible in the pictures I take.

I find iPhones have three crowds, love them, love to hate them, or stuck using them because of iTunes features for your portable music connivence.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> If Android phones had a way to include an iMatch app that would allow access to all my 2700 songs I have in the cloud I would be swayed from iPhones. 16 GB storage dosent cover what I need on my phone with over 1000 songs purchased through iTunes and the rest downloaded from CD.


Google Play Music (a default Android app) could do that for you, check out this article:
Google Music and Amazon Cloud Player take on iTunes Match. Who wins?
Quote:


> Google Play allows you to keep up to *20,000* songs stored on Google's servers, while Apple's iTunes Match stores your entire music library in iCloud and matches up to 25,000 tracks (though as we explained in our previous examination of iTunes Match, songs purchased from the iTunes Music Store don't count toward your 25,000 song limit). Amazon's cloud locker service, dubbed the Cloud Player Premium, features two tiers: the free version allows up to 250 imported songs, while the premium version costs $24.99 a year but enables subscribers to upload 250,000 imported tracks. Neither of these limits count toward purchases that were made from Amazon MP3 directly, or those old CDs you might actually rather forget you ever purchased.


----------



## Ovrclck

Googles reaction to yesterdays iphone 5s announcement.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> It seems really hypocritical to criticize people for buying into the latest tech when you're running a MBPr. Those aren't known for being cost-effective, cheap devices.


i'm not criticizing people for spending a lot of money on devices. i'm criticizing them for being fashion whores and buying almost identical devices every 6 months to "keep up with the crowd." it's yuppiness at it's finest.

there has been nothing really substantial since hi-dpi displays and 4g were introduced.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Google Play Music (a default Android app) could do that for you, check out this article:
> Google Music and Amazon Cloud Player take on iTunes Match. Who wins?


Great info. Going to try this with my sons Optimus G he just recieved and see how it works. Paying another $25 a year seems steep as it will bring total cost to $50 for me to do so. However it may be worth it to be unchained from iPhones and have the option to other phones for my convenient portable music.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think the point being made was the fact that apple followers picked on a lot of android phones for using plastic and now that the iphone is made from plastic and as expensive as the HTC One, it's all of a sudden ok and stylish. Not good because it's plastic and still expensive.


Phones made of plastic that flex and creak, sure, which is a ton of cheap android phones. Doesn't appear iPhone 5C will have that problem.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i'm not criticizing people for spending a lot of money on devices. i'm criticizing them for being fashion whores and buying almost identical devices every 6 months to "keep up with the crowd." it's yuppiness at it's finest.
> 
> there has been nothing really substantial since hi-dpi displays and 4g were introduced.


I would like to have 4g but compared to the US we are late to the game (well the city where my university is has good coverage though. (besides the campus coverage that is +60Mbps over wifi everywhere)


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Problem with this is that they're starting to lose this charm. Have you looked at the nosedive that AAPL took?
> I know. I'm a programmer, thanks. I was under the impression it was addresses first. Instructions: sure, it might help, but not many apps use
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> long
> 
> s or
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ulong
> 
> s, at least of the few of which I've seen the source code for. And sure, it can also help with other instructions, but it's not going to give a measurable performance gain by itself (even if it does, it will be .1% or less, specially with the IPC improvements in the A7).
> 
> It's just a gimmick. And no, most other phones would not benefit from it by much, at least not quite yet.
> 
> I rest my case.


I just want to point out that I wouldn't judge a company based on what Wall Street currently thinks...


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> IDK if most of you remember when apple tried to make a big deal about the G5 processor in their old Powermac being 64bit and that it would bring massive performance increases. They even made OSX a fully 64bit OS as well, yet performance still remained about the same.


That right there was straight lying from Steve Jobs and crew in order to put polish to a turd because they were stuck with Motorola processors. 1Q before they switched to the dark side, they were still touting gigaflops of processing. Then wham, when they announced Intel, they all of a sudden claimed 4x performance improvement. That right there, proves to me that their PC guys are a bunch of snake oil hucksters.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> As per my understand, which i admit is fairly limited, the principle distinction between 32 and 64 is the number of memory registers. with only 1GB to play with, ram is the bottle neck for the type of instruction sets that can be run on the 5s. whatever new instruction that are running on the 5s should also be easily implemented on a 32bit system.


Try telling that to Ivy Bridge when it tries to run AVX2 software only enabled on Haswell . . .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> android is not iphones. iproducts are actually optimized, which is why they get away with comparatively low specs. look it up


You're buying into their marketing crap if you believe that. Apple has VERY good code, but they skimp on the hardware and jack up the price to maximize margins. That's why their hardware is always 2 gens behind.

Now, onto another the topic of the fingerprint reader though. Can anyone recall who was the first phone that really allowed you to use your airline boarding pass on your phone instead of paper? iPhone it is, leaps ahead of the crowd and all due to some very minor updates, machine readable screen resolution and good apps foundation. This has lead to many innovations such as order entry management, accurate zoomable mapping on your car that is killing Garmin-GPS types, and the guy that brought me my dishwasher yesterday filling out his work order on his phone and researching installation specs all on his phone. In almost all of human history, it is the small innovations that have the greatest of impacts. I wonder what the impact of an accurate fingerprint reader will be on a mobile device? No more signatures, driver's licenses, passports, green cards?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.
> 
> 64bit on iOS 7 will probably be no different then when they added 64bit support to OSX tiger.
> 
> Plus your overestimating the advantages 64bit brings, your not running premiere pro on a iphone. Stuff like Angry birds will gain nothing moving to 64bit.


1. You say that iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic but that isn't true at all. Yes, it's had a massive UI overhaul, but of course there's going to be a lot of under the hood changes.

2. Did they rewrite the apps to 64-bit in Tiger? No. They did that in Snow Leopard, and when they did that there was appreciable performance improvements in all those apps. I never exaggerated the performance improvement, it's not going to be huge but I think it will be there.

From the live stream: "iOS 7 completely re-engineered for 64-bit", "64-bit kernel, libraries and drivers", "built in apps re-engineered", etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Problem with this is that they're starting to lose this charm. Have you looked at the nosedive that AAPL took?
> I know. I'm a programmer, thanks. I was under the impression it was addresses first. Instructions: sure, it might help, but not many apps use
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> long
> 
> s or
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ulong
> 
> s, at least of the few of which I've seen the source code for. And sure, it can also help with other instructions, but it's not going to give a measurable performance gain by itself (even if it does, it will be .1% or less, specially with the IPC improvements in the A7).
> 
> It's just a gimmick. And no, most other phones would not benefit from it by much, at least not quite yet.
> 
> I rest my case.


It's not a gimmick. There were appreciable improvements going from Leopard (32-bit) to Snow Leopard (64-bit.) Why assume that there will be none for iOS under the same scenario? It is a smaller version of OS X. And don't forget about the security benefits from being 64-bit either.


----------



## Gigatel

I love how Android fanboys put so much emphasis on Apple stock. Do you always take tech advice from stock brokers?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i'm not criticizing people for spending a lot of money on devices. i'm criticizing them for being fashion whores and buying almost identical devices every 6 months to "keep up with the crowd." it's yuppiness at it's finest.
> 
> there has been nothing really substantial since hi-dpi displays and 4g were introduced.


You do realize that you're on a website where people pay hundreds at times for a ~5% boost to synthetic benchmark scores, right?

If people have money, there's nothing wrong with them spending money on what they want. It's stupid if they're going into debt and borrowing money they don't have to pay for it, but if that's not the case then I don't see what's wrong with it. Besides, this sort of money is what helps drive companies to continue to innovate to appeal to a lucrative market. I may upgrade once a year or two years, but I'm not complaining at all if these same people are encouraging companies to build a better phone by the time I do upgrade.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> I don't see how you could call people finding the iPhone screen too small to be a ridiculous argument?
> 
> There is a pretty good reason why _every_ flagship phone released in the last 12 months or more that isn't an iPhone, has a bigger screen than an iPhone.
> 
> A large part of the market who buy flagships likes larger screens.
> 
> After coming from a Galaxy S, to Galaxy S3, there is no way in hell I could ever pay actual money to use a smaller screen and bigger would be the only change I'd be willing to make.


Eh, people have their preferences. I personally am one of those people who really does not like 5" screens. I personally think my N4's screen is the perfect size for me. Not saying it's wrong to want a bigger screen either (I think the argument that "This screen is too big" is equally ridiculous), but again nothing wrong with wanting a smaller screen than what many manufacturers these days are pushing for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynchronicBoost*
> 
> Now, onto another the topic of the fingerprint reader though. Can anyone recall who was the first phone that really allowed you to use your airline boarding pass on your phone instead of paper? iPhone it is, leaps ahead of the crowd and all due to some very minor updates, machine readable screen resolution and good apps foundation. This has lead to many innovations such as order entry management, accurate zoomable mapping on your car that is killing Garmin-GPS types, and the guy that brought me my dishwasher yesterday filling out his work order on his phone and researching installation specs all on his phone. In almost all of human history, it is the small innovations that have the greatest of impacts. I wonder what the impact of an accurate fingerprint reader will be on a mobile device? No more signatures, driver's licenses, passports, green cards?


NetSec is not my specialty by a longshot, but I'd imagine they have to find a way to make everything secure before we start moving our personal identifying information to a mobile platform (one that we regularly buy and sell nonetheless). It's an exciting concept, but one I don't think we're quite there yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> I love how Android fanboys put so much emphasis on Apple stock. Do you always take tech advice from stock brokers?


I never understood that argument myself. I'm buying a phone, not investing. Stock speculation affects how people invest their money. It has very little to do with predicting how well a phone will sell or a company will do. Hell, based off of how Samsung's stock was doing at the time, I doubt you could have predicted the Galaxy's success in the phone market.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Samsung's stock in comparison, the GS4 was released on April 26...


----------



## Marin

Well this thread got ran into the ground like usual. Thanks OCN for your lack of bias...


----------



## micul

http://www.legitreviews.com/jimmy-kimmel-live-takes-iphone-5s-to-the-streets_123712


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micul*
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/jimmy-kimmel-live-takes-iphone-5s-to-the-streets_123712


as soon as he said ipad mini i lost it.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micul*
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/jimmy-kimmel-live-takes-iphone-5s-to-the-streets_123712


Lol... "I can taste it, wow that's weird!"


----------



## CJRhoades

I'm really not sure why so many people are complaining about the update. The S model is always just a hardware upgrade. Double the performance? Check. Better camera? Check. Plus, it's got that motion co-processing chip and a new feature (the fingerprint scanner) that's actually useful.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of people mentioning that it "*still* only has a dual core CPU and 1GB of RAM". First, while that's probably true, we don't actually know that. And second, why does that matter? As long as the OS is smooth and apps run quickly, does it really matter how many cores it has? If Apple can get away with less powerful hardware while maintaining great performance, more power to them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micul*
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/jimmy-kimmel-live-takes-iphone-5s-to-the-streets_123712










That's hilarious!

EDIT: And for all you NSA tin foil hat guys, have a look at this:
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/11/apple-offers-additional-details-on-touch-id-iphone-5s-wont-store-fingerprint-images/


----------



## Gigatel

It's called gadget insecurity and it's a plague amongst apple's competition.

And as far as specs on paper go, that's all the android community has to cling on to to justify their less desirable gadgets.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

One thing i have noticed with smoothness is generals is that Apple and Google take 2 difference approaches.

1) Apples side. New iPhone comes out and its all new and fast. With each update its get slower. Person buys new iPhone.
2) The hard truth is Google does not want to make the OS as smooth as iOS and Windows. If they did they would be able to take it back. People would not upgrade us much. They cant do the Apple OS slows down the phone because of custom ROMs and the fact you can go back to any version you have.


----------



## chronostorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> One thing i have noticed with smoothness is generals is that Apple and Google take 2 difference approaches.
> 
> 1) Apples side. New iPhone comes out and its all new and fast. With each update its get slower. Person buys new iPhone.
> 2) The hard truth is Google does not want to make the OS as smooth as iOS and Windows. If they did they would be able to take it back. People would not upgrade us much. They cant do the Apple OS slows down the phone because of custom ROMs and the fact you can go back to any version you have.


I don't know about you, but I've had a very smooth experience with Android on my Note 2. Also, any proof that Google is purposely making Android "slow"?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> It's called gadget insecurity and it's a plague amongst apple's competition.
> 
> And as far as specs on paper go, that's all the android community has to cling on to to justify their less desirable gadgets.


You're showing the same fanboy attitude. Both camps have their fans and their uses (or all three, if we include WP8 in the mix). Just because you think Android is less desirable to you doesn't mean everyone else does or should, just as how because people using Android don't like iOS doesn't make it inferior.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> One thing i have noticed with smoothness is generals is that Apple and Google take 2 difference approaches.
> 
> 1) Apples side. New iPhone comes out and its all new and fast. With each update its get slower. Person buys new iPhone.
> 2) The hard truth is Google does not want to make the OS as smooth as iOS and Windows. If they did they would be able to take it back. People would not upgrade us much. They cant do the Apple OS slows down the phone because of custom ROMs and the fact you can go back to any version you have.


I'd disagree with point #2, or rather, the reasoning behind it. I suspect it has much more to do with the simple number of Android devices out there.

Apple has proven you can make a smooth phone and people will _still_ upgrade. It's all about how you market your product. I'd bet Apple will make a ton of money on the iP5s again even though most people won't need the hardware upgrades, just as how Samsung made money off the S4 and HTC off the One despite there not being that much of a noticeable jump from the S3 for most users.

So if Google is smart (which they are), the issue with Android isn't that they're afraid people won't upgrade. It's just a ton of products out there that you can't properly optimize the code for. It's the same issue with PCs and consoles - it's easier to get (relatively) great graphics/performance on very dated hardware because there's a smaller number of hardware variations to optimize the code for. A second although smaller issue is that many manufacturers like to slap their own skins and bloatware on Android phones, many of which add additional processing requirements and therefore performance takes a hit.

Plus, Google has been trying to make Android run smoother. That was the entire focus of their Project Butter.

For what it's worth, Google is at least trying to fix the whole fragmented Android issue. They've recently started releasing system updates via Google Play Services, a background service with deep permissions throughout the phone that allows Google to push minor OS revisions OTA without the usual long process of push out minor revision -> send to OEM -> OEM slaps their own crap on top -> sends to carrier -> carrier slaps their own crap on top -> release to market months later.


----------



## gsa700

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> I'm not sure what apps you've been using, but an unskilled or lazy programmer will create slow and crappy apps (the garbage collector is your friend and enemy all at the same time). The only apps I use on my phone are ones that perform well, there are a lot of them out there... There are also a lot that don't.
> 
> The look and feel of an app is entirely up to the developer.
> 
> Your impression of Java is very dated, which is probably because "you've been around for a while..."


Adobe uses java in the latest version of creative suite for a lot of the UI, it looks like crap on Windows and Mac.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar3f*
> 
> You are correct.
> My point, which I failed to present coherently, was that 64-bit Apps will not run on 32-bit hardware unless some virtualization environment is provided. Since it is difficult and economically not feasable to code Apps in 64-bit (32-bit users will not buy), the 64-bit advantages will be minimal at least till 64-bit hardware will be largely used by consumers.
> iPhone 5S/C will be OK running older, 32-bit Apps, but the iPhone 5 and lower numbers will not be able to run the new, 64-bit Apps - if any, pending Apple strategy.


Apple uses "fat binaries" which contain the 32 and 64 version of an app in one. The end user will never know or care which version they are using.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> I just want to point out that I wouldn't judge a company based on what Wall Street currently thinks...


Yeah, what would that tell us about Microsoft?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> One thing i have noticed with smoothness is generals is that Apple and Google take 2 difference approaches.
> 
> 1) Apples side. New iPhone comes out and its all new and fast. With each update its get slower. Person buys new iPhone.
> 2) The hard truth is Google does not want to make the OS as smooth as iOS and Windows. If they did they would be able to take it back. People would not upgrade us much. They cant do the Apple OS slows down the phone because of custom ROMs and the fact you can go back to any version you have.


It's not unexpected that as an OS becomes more powerful, older devices will begin slowing down. Right now the iPhone 4 is the oldest iPhone that can run iOS 7, and I can imagine it slowing down somewhat. But I suspect that the slow down won't really effect the 4S so badly for iOS 8 and 9, seeing how much more powerful its CPU and GPU are over that of the 4.

*EDIT*: Seeing the above post, I think it's interesting to note that it took only two hours to port Infinity Blade 3 over to a 64-bit architecture.


----------



## hokk

Seems they have a tick-tock cycle.


----------



## BMorrisSly

Fingerprint scanner is a waste of money. Another thing to go wrong and people to complain about it and taking it back.

Half the stuff on my Samsung Galaxy S4 I never use. In fact all the new motion sensor I haven't used once. Just a cool idea to have it I guess.


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BMorrisSly*
> 
> Fingerprint scanner is a waste of money. Another thing to go wrong and people to complain about it and taking it back.Half the stuff on my Samsung Galaxy S4 I never use. In fact all the new motion sensor I haven't used once. Just a cool idea to have it I guess.


Honestly, any cool new piece of tech implemented poorly is worthless.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynchronicBoost*
> 
> Honestly, any cool new piece of tech implemented poorly is worthless.


Case in point: Touchscreens. They've been around for forever but really horribly done. After Apple, now we all have touchscreen phones + tablets, and touchscreen laptops are about mainstream now.


----------



## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsa700*
> 
> Adobe uses java in the latest version of creative suite for a lot of the UI, it looks like crap on Windows and Mac.


Then complain to Adobe's developers for doing a bad job...

Adobe's crappy interface has nothing to do with the language; you can use any Java library to render your fonts or build your GUI that you want (you can even create your own, if you have the time and skill). If Adobe chose to use the Swing library for their interface, that's their problem.


----------



## UNOE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Great info. Going to try this with my sons Optimus G he just recieved and see how it works. Paying another $25 a year seems steep as it will bring total cost to $50 for me to do so. However it may be worth it to be unchained from iPhones and have the option to other phones for my convenient portable music.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> If Android phones had a way to include an iMatch app that would allow access to all my 2700 songs I have in the cloud I would be swayed from iPhones. 16 GB storage dosent cover what I need on my phone with over 1000 songs purchased through iTunes and the rest downloaded from CD.
> 
> I'm excited for 5S upgrading my aging 4S and looking foward to twice the speed. I definitely don't like the iPhone camera so I'm hoping this next version has a much needed improvement that's visible in the pictures I take.
> 
> I find iPhones have three crowds, love them, love to hate them, or stuck using them because of iTunes features for your portable music connivence.


My problem with this is you shouldn't need cloud storage. Both Samsung and Apple are robbing customers on storage.

We had 16GB phone 4 and half years ago for $199.99 ($649.99). We should be at about 64GB for base model. If Apple made a 64GB iphone for $199.99 ($649.99) they would make the same profit margin they did in 2009 with the iPhone 3G per phone, plus they are selling more phones per year so it would not effect them one bit.

Look at this for iPhone 5 break down http://gizmodo.com/5944446/the-iphone-5-costs-8-more-to-build-than-it-does-to-buy

Cost to make
iPhone 5 16GB - $207
iPhone 5 32GB - $217 ($10 more)
iPhone 5 64GB - $238 ($31 more)

And here we are 1 year later and those prices are even lower now for nand memory. More like $7 more for 32GB and $22 more for 64GB and probably even lower than that at bulk pricing. These smartphone manufactures are in the business of selling overpriced nand.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Just Saw the presentation, Great iPhones this fall. 64bit OS, great mobile gaming for those interested.


----------



## FCSElite

No , but why make a big deal of it , the performance will not be so much, also just because iOs is going to be 64bit that does not mean all apps will be 64bit just like the XP had 64bit


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FCSElite*
> 
> No , but why make a big deal of it , the performance will not be so much, also just because iOs is going to be 64bit that does not mean all apps will be 64bit just like the XP had 64bit


Who's making a big deal?
The thing has a great camera, the new finger print scan is great, the OS is rock solid. Going a step forward is always good. Yeah XP jumped to 64bit, I mean it all starts somewhere. Many apps will soon be optimized for 64 bit iOS, by soon I'm talking pretty soon.

The iPhone 5c is also pretty awesome.


----------



## GermanyChris

Apple's will be and Apple because they own the store can disallow any future 32bit apps and can give devs a time line on when they expect the apps to be recompiled. Apple is the gatekeeper.


----------



## MrLime

I wonder if people still think its a gimmick and useless now that Samsung are talking about it.

http://m.cnet.com/news/samsungs-next-galaxy-smartphones-to-feature-64-bit-chips-too/57602565


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> I wonder if people still think its a gimmick and useless now that Samsung are talking about it.
> 
> http://m.cnet.com/news/samsungs-next-galaxy-smartphones-to-feature-64-bit-chips-too/57602565


It makes no difference if its Apple of Samsung lol.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nathris*
> 
> A bunch of minor improvements, a "cheaper" model that's more expensive than the HTC One, yet made of plastic. I predict another year of slow decline for Apple.


I do as well. Call me paranoid (I honestly don't care) but I find it amusing how everyone is up in arms over the NSA privacy snooping fiasco and they're handing in their fingerprints to a smartphone just like that. It's all just so funny to me...


----------



## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> I do as well. Call me paranoid (I honestly don't care) but I find it amusing how everyone is up in arms over the NSA privacy snooping fiasco and they're handing in their fingerprints to a smartphone just like that. It's all just so funny to me...


-Apple aren't on a slow decline already.

-Fingerprints are stored locally only.


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Phones made of plastic that flex and creak, sure, which is a ton of cheap android phones. Doesn't appear iPhone 5C will have that problem.


Wow...I wish I had your powers of product testing, especially as you can tell so much about a product from just a few pictures









Might I add that Apple was in fact the pioneer of cheap plastic that cracked with the 3g/3gs. Mine grew a butt crack from the charging port within 2 months of using it...and 90% of the ones I have seen has/had one by the time it was due for an update.

We get that your an Apple fan...that much is clear, but these smitten one liners you seem to enjoy making throughout this thread are nothing but childish. People will buy what they want to buy, I can promise you nothing you say will convince them otherwise.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Oh I see OCN. Plastic can only be good on Android phones. Got it.


No Mr Apple, shock absorbing polymers (not high quality like the one used in the 5C) is somehow inferior to heavy metal construction. That's just how OCN Apples think. But now that Apple released a plastic phone, the sheep will follow and defend!


----------



## DzillaXx

Want to see a phone that truly has great build quality then look at the HTC One.
Would have gotten the One myself if my carrier had it.

IMO I find the HTC's premium phones to have better build quality then apples premium phones.

Not the biggest fan of putting a case on a phone, but my S4 was so hard to use without one. Though at least my casemate case is super thin. No more sliding out of my pocket.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> Wow...I wish I had your powers of product testing, especially as you can tell so much about a product from just a few pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might I add that Apple was in fact the pioneer of cheap plastic that cracked with the 3g/3gs. Mine grew a butt crack from the charging port within 2 months of using it...and 90% of the ones I have seen has/had one by the time it was due for an update.
> 
> We get that your an Apple fan...that much is clear, but these smitten one liners you seem to enjoy making throughout this thread are nothing but childish. People will buy what they want to buy, I can promise you nothing you say will convince them otherwise.


Not dismissing your experience, but I've still got my 3GS and it's in perfect condition.


----------



## Sevada88

Nice way to collect people's fingerprints...good job NSA! These days you don't have to be busted to give your fingerprints, all you need is a damn phone.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nice way to collect people's fingerprints...good job NSA! These days you don't have to be busted to give your fingerprints, all you need is a damn phone.


Are you a US citizen? Then they already have your prints.

Another thing that's been said a million times is that Apple is saying the fingerprints are never shared over any networks but only stored locally on the phone. If in fact it turns out they're sharing your fingerprints with other organizations, they're going to get sued by millions of people.


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Not dismissing your experience, but I've still got my 3GS and it's in perfect condition.


You was one of the lucky one's I guess, the wife's 3g and my 3gs both went within 2 months. My parents both had 3gs's and they went within 6 months. All had cases on them and I even had the otterbox defender which annoyed me even more.

I had a white one which I also heard at the time was more prone to cracking (maybe because you could see it easier).


----------



## xentrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kenpachiroks*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must watch!


Made my day.. Thanks


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Are you a US citizen? Then they already have your prints.
> 
> Another thing that's been said a million times is that Apple is saying the fingerprints are never shared over any networks but only stored locally on the phone. If in fact it turns out they're sharing your fingerprints with other organizations, they're going to get sued by millions of people.


The fingerprints are also encrypted and stored somewhere in the A7. No actual image of your fingerprint is saved, it's only the data.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> You was one of the lucky one's I guess, the wife's 3g and my 3gs both went within 2 months. My parents both had 3gs's and they went within 6 months. All had cases on them and I even had the otterbox defender which annoyed me even more.
> 
> I had a white one which I also heard at the time was more prone to cracking (maybe because you could see it easier).


Ouch, that sucks!


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> Wow...I wish I had your powers of product testing, especially as you can tell so much about a product from just a few pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might I add that Apple was in fact the pioneer of cheap plastic that cracked with the 3g/3gs. Mine grew a butt crack from the charging port within 2 months of using it...and 90% of the ones I have seen has/had one by the time it was due for an update.
> 
> We get that your an Apple fan...that much is clear, but these smitten one liners you seem to enjoy making throughout this thread are nothing but childish. People will buy what they want to buy, I can promise you nothing you say will convince them otherwise.


Why criticize him for his assumption, and make one just as baseless? Like you said...no one has used the phone yet.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> You're showing the same fanboy attitude. Both camps have their fans and their uses (or all three, if we include WP8 in the mix). Just because you think Android is less desirable to you doesn't mean everyone else does or should, just as how because people using Android don't like iOS doesn't make it inferior.


i agree, androids are good for e-peen and great time killers, because of all the work you have to do to actually get them to function properly


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Why criticize him for his assumption, and make one just as baseless? Like you said...no one has used the phone yet.












He based his assumption off of a couple of pictures.... while I never said the 5c would crack, I merely suggested that Apple have made a plastic phone before and with my actual experience of using the device, it cracked. I mentioned this to counter his comment about android devices cracking all being made out of cheap plastic.

At what point did I make a baseless comment? Its not like I am lying about the 3gs and a simple google search will bring up all the evidence you need.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He based his assumption off of a couple of pictures.... while I never said the 5c would crack, I merely suggested that Apple have made a plastic phone before and with my actual experience of using the device, it cracked. I mentioned this to counter his comment about android devices cracking all being made out of cheap plastic.
> 
> At what point did I make a baseless comment? Its not like I am lying about the 3gs and a simple google search will bring up all the evidence you need.


To be fair, your experience doesn't represent the general population of iPhone users. Lets stop with these "Device X works/doesn't work for me so that's basically your argument dismissed" points please.

and to be equally fair, I can do a search for any phone and get results like those... Example

Funnily enough, that one has more results.

Lets keep the thread about the new iPhone rather than speculating over something that we don't have any hard evidence of yet.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> You're showing the same fanboy attitude. Both camps have their fans and their uses (or all three, if we include WP8 in the mix). Just because you think Android is less desirable to you doesn't mean everyone else does or should, just as how because people using Android don't like iOS doesn't make it inferior.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree, androids are good for e-peen and great time killers, because of all the work you have to do to actually get them to function properly
Click to expand...

What if I use mine for office work, email, cloud services, business, portable pns, research tool on the fly for quick information, have all my projects synced, accessible, and I can view and modify on the go with no performance hiccups from poor CPU performance?

Is it still e-peen?


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> To be fair, your experience doesn't represent the general population of iPhone users. Lets stop with these "Device X works/doesn't work for me so that's basically your argument dismissed" points please.
> 
> and to be equally fair, I can do a search for any phone and get results like those... Example
> 
> Funnily enough, that one has more results.
> 
> Lets keep the thread about the new iPhone rather than speculating over something that we don't have any hard evidence of yet.


To be fair, I never said my experience represented the iPhone population...it was just my experience with a product that I owned and that friends and family owned. I am sure thousands of devices got away crack free.

Not at one point have I tried to compare device X against device Y. All I have done is respond to the comment about android devices cracking and showing that in my experience Apple devices crack too.

Yes as per your example the S3 was prone to cracking....but I never even mentioned Samsung at one point. To top it off that single model of phone and its flaws does not represent the entirety of Android phones like it had been previously mentioned. You will not see the exact same level of problems from manufacturers like HTC, LG, Motorola etc so it is stupid to group all the manufacturers together with the term "android phones"...especially over build quality.


----------



## darkstar585

dp


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> What if I use mine for office work, email, cloud services, business, portable pns, research tool on the fly for quick information, have all my projects synced, accessible, and I can view and modify on the go with no performance hiccups from poor CPU performance?
> 
> Is it still e-peen?


i'd be very surprised if you are slowed down by cpu performance while doing by basic tasks like email and web browsing, and not by your mobile internet


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> To be fair, your experience doesn't represent the general population of iPhone users. Lets stop with these "Device X works/doesn't work for me so that's basically your argument dismissed" points please.
> 
> and to be equally fair, I can do a search for any phone and get results like those... Example
> 
> Funnily enough, that one has more results.
> 
> Lets keep the thread about the new iPhone rather than speculating over something that we don't have any hard evidence of yet.


My 3G also had a cracked back but I couldn't care less tbh.
Guess they will go with stronger(flexible) glass and a more flexible plastic.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i'd be very surprised if you are slowed down by cpu performance while doing by basic tasks like email and web browsing, and not by your mobile internet


Someone hasn't used my SII on 2.3.

Android is exponentially better now on 4.3 on my Nexus 4, and I don't think Android in its current state is laggy/slow/requires work to get it to function, but in my experience this wasn't the case ~2 years ago.


----------



## downlinx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> compared to the original iPhone.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> compared to the original iPhone.


But the thing is you can not compare it to the original iphone guys, you have to compare it to the iphone 5 or the iphone 4s. When you do this, you're looking at small potatoes.


----------



## MrLime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> To be fair, I never said my experience represented the iPhone population...it was just my experience with a product that I owned and that friends and family owned. I am sure thousands of devices got away crack free.
> 
> Not at one point have I tried to compare device X against device Y. All I have done is respond to the comment about android devices cracking and showing that in my experience Apple devices crack too.
> 
> Yes as per your example the S3 was prone to cracking....but I never even mentioned Samsung at one point. To top it off that single model of phone and its flaws does not represent the entirety of Android phones like it had been previously mentioned. You will not see the exact same level of problems from manufacturers like HTC, LG, Motorola etc so it is stupid to group all the manufacturers together with the term "android phones"...especially over build quality.


Each argument has to have two sides fairly represented. I'm playing devils advocate here. By implying that your individual experience is somewhat valuable to an argument about everyones experience, it's only fair that I point out that it really isn't.

I didn't say you were comparing device X against device Y.

I didn't say you mentioned Samsung. I said that I can do what you did with any other phone. The fact that I chose a GS3 was completely random.

Lastly, I didn't group them all together with the term "android phones". The term "android phones" that you're quoting wasn't even in the comment... I guess the eye sees what it wants to see.


----------



## PolyMorphist

*insert comment about Apple's lack of revolutionary design and innovation*

Seriously though, It's Apple's humble beginnings with the very first iPhones that had led to this massive cult that blindly purchases their products. Got to admit, the original iPhone was a realm of its own when it came to smartphones; nothing could compete.


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Each argument has to have two sides fairly represented. I'm playing devils advocate here. By implying that your individual experience is somewhat valuable to an argument about everyones experience, it's only fair that I point out that it really isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that it is ALSO well documented on-line by thousands of users shows it was not just my experience. Was it detrimental to the phone, No. Doesn't mean you can excuse it from existence.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were comparing device X against device Y.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seemed you inferred it in your comment that you quoted me in.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you mentioned Samsung. I said that I can do what you did with any other phone. The fact that I chose a GS3 was completely random.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I highly doubt you did that at random but instead to try and prove a point, Indicating that the perticular device would get more hits, but whatever.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly, I didn't group them all together with the term "android phones". The term "android phones" that you're quoting wasn't even in the comment... I guess the eye sees what it wants to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was referring to the original quote that started the debate off to begin with... that you joined in on in the middle.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Phones made of plastic that flex and creak, sure, which is a ton of cheap android phones. Doesn't appear iPhone 5C will have that problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PolyMorphist*
> 
> *insert comment about Apple's lack of revolutionary design and innovation*
> 
> Seriously though, It's Apple's humble beginnings with the very first iPhones that had led to this massive cult that blindly purchases their products. Got to admit, the original iPhone was a realm of its own when it came to smartphones; nothing could compete.


It's not just Apple. Just read through this thread and you'll see Android has the same thing too (this is coming from an Android user). OCN has the same thing with Nvidia, ATI, Intel, AMD, etc.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *downlinx*
> 
> But the thing is you can not compare it to the original iphone guys, you have to compare it to the iphone 5 or the iphone 4s. When you do this, you're looking at small potatoes.


Actually your'e not. The 5S is 2X faster than the 5 and 4X faster than the 4S.


----------



## Thrasher1016

I could care less about most of the functionality of the 5S, I just want to know if you will be able to hold calls and use data (read: navigation) at the same time on this one... No one seems to know.

Thanks - T


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> I could care less about most of the functionality of the 5S, I just want to know if you will be able to hold calls and use data (read: navigation) at the same time on this one... No one seems to know.


I think that depends on the carrier. I had a iPhone 3GS that could access data(internet, apps, gps etc) while on phone calls.

My Lumias can do the same...but that is because I'm on AT&T. Last I checked Sprint, Verizon, and Tmo can't do that.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I think that depends on the carrier. I had a iPhone 3GS that could access data(internet, apps, gps etc) while on phone calls.
> 
> My Lumias can do the same...but that is because I'm on AT&T. Last I checked Sprint, Verizon, and Tmo can't do that.


If you have a 4g connection you can. At least that's how it is on verizon


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> If you have a 4g connection you can. At least that's how it is on verizon


Really? My girls Motorola Photon 4g on sprint can't do that. Is there a difference in using talk and data at the same time with 4g vs 3g?
I thought it was just carrier specific, 4g specific. My 3GS was only a 3g phone.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Really? My girls Motorola Photon 4g on sprint can't do that. Is there a difference in using talk and data at the same time with 4g vs 3g?
> I thought it was just carrier specific, 4g specific. My 3GS was only a 3g phone.


I'm not exactly sure, I have a galaxy nexus. As long as I have a 4g connection I can talk and use data at the same time. It may be different with sprint.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> I'm not exactly sure, I have a galaxy nexus. As long as I have a 4g connection I can talk and use data at the same time. It may be different with sprint.


What network do you have?


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> What network do you have?


Thought I said it already. I'm on verizon.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Actually your'e not. The 5S is 2X faster than the 5 and 4X faster than the 4S.


My Nexus 4 which cost me less then Galaxy Nexus is 4x faster.


----------



## RiverOfIce

Just a small security warning with the finger reader. It is worst then not having a password on. Why? Because it is false security. Fingerprint readers, by default have to have a range of possible values. 500dpi is on the very low end of the reader dpi. The technology simply does not exist to prevent unauthorized access with fingerprint only.

So the finger print reader is a gimmick, one that should get it banned from your using your phone for work.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I think that depends on the carrier. I had a iPhone 3GS that could access data(internet, apps, gps etc) while on phone calls.
> 
> My Lumias can do the same...but that is because I'm on AT&T. Last I checked Sprint, Verizon, and Tmo can't do that.


Yes... VZW can... But I was more meaning the restriction / ability of the iPhone itself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> If you have a 4g connection you can. At least that's how it is on verizon


That's true, but I was under the impression that it was not the carrier but the actual iPhone 5 that was the limiting factor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> I'm not exactly sure, I have a galaxy nexus. As long as I have a 4g connection I can talk and use data at the same time. It may be different with sprint.


Heeeeyyyyy, same phone (until tomorrow) and same carrier! Creepy.









Thanks - T


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> What if I use mine for office work, email, cloud services, business, portable pns, research tool on the fly for quick information, have all my projects synced, accessible, and I can view and modify on the go with no performance hiccups from poor CPU performance?
> 
> Is it still e-peen?
> 
> 
> 
> i'd be very surprised if you are slowed down by cpu performance while doing by basic tasks like email and web browsing, and not by your mobile internet
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised at how poor arm architecture and the CPU performance really is when it comes to project pages with hundreds of images, graphs, calculations, etc.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Heeeeyyyyy, same phone (until tomorrow) and same carrier! Creepy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


haha kinda weird. I'd love to upgrade my phone but I have a grandfathered unlimited plan. Can't afford to lose it. Gotta buy my phones at full retail or second hand.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RiverOfIce*
> 
> Just a small security warning with the finger reader. It is worst then not having a password on. Why? Because it is false security. Fingerprint readers, by default have to have a range of possible values. 500dpi is on the very low end of the reader dpi. The technology simply does not exist to prevent unauthorized access with fingerprint only.
> 
> So the finger print reader is a gimmick, one that should get it banned from your using your phone for work.


Still should be safer than a four digit passcode most people have. A lot of iPhones I've seen have four distinct finger smudges where the digits of the keypad are. If that's the case, there's only 24 possible combinations to try. The fingerprint reader isn't foolproof but it sounds a lot safer than the current setup.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You'd be surprised at how poor arm architecture and the CPU performance really is when it comes to project pages with hundreds of images, graphs, calculations, etc.


It's the screen sizes that bug me more than the performance itself. Trying to read a chart of LD50 experimental values or looking at a long dosage curve is a pain on a phone screen.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You'd be surprised at how poor arm architecture and the CPU performance really is when it comes to project pages with hundreds of images, graphs, calculations, etc.


why are you even reading such complex graphs, images etc on a phone screen. the fact that it is ~5" is not a bigger issue than lag? ok


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> My Nexus 4 which cost me less then Galaxy Nexus is 4x faster.


Whats the point? Apple's brilliant code and top CPU still has a performance jump(iOS, games etc) far greater than what you would experience when going from the Nexus to the Nexus 4.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> why are you even reading such complex graphs, images etc on a phone screen. the fact that it is ~5" is not a bigger issue than lag? ok


If he's like me, it's because he has no choice. I don't have a tablet anymore (sold my N7 for financial reasons), and I still have to walk and work. Between walking around the lab holding my laptop or my phone, I definitely pick my phone.

It's times like this when I miss my N7.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He based his assumption off of a couple of pictures.... while I never said the 5c would crack, I merely suggested that Apple have made a plastic phone before and with my actual experience of using the device, it cracked. I mentioned this to counter his comment about android devices cracking all being made out of cheap plastic.
> 
> At what point did I make a baseless comment? Its not like I am lying about the 3gs and a simple google search will bring up all the evidence you need.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> To be fair, your experience doesn't represent the general population of iPhone users. Lets stop with these "Device X works/doesn't work for me so that's basically your argument dismissed" points please.
> 
> and to be equally fair, I can do a search for any phone and get results like those... Example
> 
> Funnily enough, that one has more results.
> 
> Lets keep the thread about the new iPhone rather than speculating over something that we don't have any hard evidence of yet.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrLime*
> 
> Each argument has to have two sides fairly represented. I'm playing devils advocate here. By implying that your individual experience is somewhat valuable to an argument about everyones experience, it's only fair that I point out that it really isn't.
> 
> I didn't say you were comparing device X against device Y.
> 
> I didn't say you mentioned Samsung. I said that I can do what you did with any other phone. The fact that I chose a GS3 was completely random.
> 
> Lastly, I didn't group them all together with the term "android phones". The term "android phones" that you're quoting wasn't even in the comment... I guess the eye sees what it wants to see.


Well, he pretty much said everything I was thinking.

You're grabbing at things, making implications. Like MrLime said, the eyes see what they want to see. Let the phone come out, and if it cracks, so be it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Whats the point? Apple's brilliant code and top CPU still has a performance jump(iOS, games etc) far greater than what you would experience when going from the Nexus to the Nexus 4.


Comparing what to what? iPhone 4 to 4S was a leap, but not a leap as great as the GNex to Nexus 4. The Nexus 4 was worlds better in build quality and speed.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> My Nexus 4 which cost me less then Galaxy Nexus is 4x faster.


Doesn't hold performance crown though and it is over a model before it is like saying my newer phone is 10x faster than the phone with the same name using a A9.

Thing is even though I will have to get a new contract soon I'll probably wait for the iPhone 6 and while I'm at it first 20nm videochip (no not an FPGA with 14nm node that is not what I meant)
So Intel will get my money for Brickland, AMD for the graphics(unless Nvidia doesn't go small die, locking, charging etc) and Apple for the phone.

What I would really like is low power devices with a huge battery like a thick laptop with a gigantic battery cap attached to low power hardware.
That would be real good for my classes as I spend quite some time every day working on it in class.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> haha kinda weird. I'd love to upgrade my phone but I have a grandfathered unlimited plan. Can't afford to lose it. Gotta buy my phones at full retail or second hand.


AAAAAAHAHA!!!

Srsly?









_Exactly_ the reason I've gone eight months past my upgrade date w/o a change!!!
Kept my GNex and my unlimited plan for all this time, but any upgrade right now is forcing customers to move to a tiered plan.
Honestly, the price is LESS for my family to have an Unltd / Unltd / 10GB plan than to have a family T/T with my data seperate!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Well, he pretty much said everything I was thinking.
> 
> You're grabbing at things, making implications. Like MrLime said, the eyes see what they want to see. Let the phone come out, and if it cracks, so be it.
> Comparing what to what? iPhone 4 to 4S was a leap, but not a leap as great as the GNex to Nexus 4. The Nexus 4 was worlds better in build quality and speed.


That's a strange thing to say... I had two GNex phones, and the only reason I got a second is because I drowned the first one.
These phones are really reliable, IMO, and the speed is fine for a two-year-old model. I'd love to say the GS4 aged that well, but... it didn't.

Thanks - T


----------



## chcolatesnw

"And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work."
The fingerprint scanner hasnt worked so far because they were made on the cheap. Cheap parts, slow recognition, needed precise orientation, and wasnt integrated in the software fully. Apple does this with their designs and ease of use, they either go big or go home. They made it high quality, made it work instantly, and orientation doesnt matter. Most of all it doesnt look ugly, its pretty much hidden. Thats why others fail where apple succeds. Just now laptops are starting to use symmetrical, one piece bodies made of aluminium. Up until now lappies had plasting parts sticking out, crevices, etc. weight wasnt symmetrical, and again, multiple parts stuck together to make the body. Ugly, feels cheap. As much as people say design of these kinds of profucts is unimportant, i strongly disagree. For me its as important as the os or hardware thats inside

Remember, its the little details that matter most.
Such as how their cpus are still dual core but outperform quad core droids. Or they didnt join the stupid megapixels race. theres a point where a certain amount of mp is enough, from there you just have to pay attention to other things. Amount of pixels means almost nothing.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Problem with this is that they're starting to lose this charm. Have you looked at the nosedive that AAPL took?
> 
> I know. I'm a programmer, thanks. I was under the impression it was addresses first. Instructions: sure, it might help, but not many apps use
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> long
> 
> s or
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ulong
> 
> s, at least of the few of which I've seen the source code for. And sure, it can also help with other instructions, but it's not going to give a measurable performance gain by itself (even if it does, it will be .1% or less, specially with the IPC improvements in the A7).
> 
> It's just a gimmick. And no, most other phones would not benefit from it by much, at least not quite yet.
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to point out that I wouldn't judge a company based on what Wall Street currently thinks...
Click to expand...

Fair enough, point taken.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> First off iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic, second the move to 64bit will hardly make the OS any faster then it currently is.
> 
> 64bit on iOS 7 will probably be no different then when they added 64bit support to OSX tiger.
> 
> Plus your overestimating the advantages 64bit brings, your not running premiere pro on a iphone. Stuff like Angry birds will gain nothing moving to 64bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You say that iOS 7 is mostly cosmetic but that isn't true at all. Yes, it's had a massive UI overhaul, but of course there's going to be a lot of under the hood changes.
> 
> 2. Did they rewrite the apps to 64-bit in Tiger? No. They did that in Snow Leopard, and when they did that there was appreciable performance improvements in all those apps. I never exaggerated the performance improvement, it's not going to be huge but I think it will be there.
> 
> From the live stream: "iOS 7 completely re-engineered for 64-bit", "64-bit kernel, libraries and drivers", "built in apps re-engineered", etc.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Problem with this is that they're starting to lose this charm. Have you looked at the nosedive that AAPL took?
> 
> I know. I'm a programmer, thanks. I was under the impression it was addresses first. Instructions: sure, it might help, but not many apps use
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> long
> 
> s or
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ulong
> 
> s, at least of the few of which I've seen the source code for. And sure, it can also help with other instructions, but it's not going to give a measurable performance gain by itself (even if it does, it will be .1% or less, specially with the IPC improvements in the A7).
> 
> It's just a gimmick. And no, most other phones would not benefit from it by much, at least not quite yet.
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a gimmick. There were appreciable improvements going from Leopard (32-bit) to Snow Leopard (64-bit.) Why assume that there will be none for iOS under the same scenario? It is a smaller version of OS X. And don't forget about the security benefits from being 64-bit either.
Click to expand...

That's because they rewrote an optimized, not just because of 64bit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micul*
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/jimmy-kimmel-live-takes-iphone-5s-to-the-streets_123712











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> You're showing the same fanboy attitude. Both camps have their fans and their uses (or all three, if we include WP8 in the mix). Just because you think Android is less desirable to you doesn't mean everyone else does or should, just as how because people using Android don't like iOS doesn't make it inferior.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree, androids are good for e-peen and great time killers, because of all the work you have to do to actually get them to function properly
Click to expand...

It took me ~5 mins to set up my N7...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> My Nexus 4 which cost me less then Galaxy Nexus is 4x faster.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the point? Apple's brilliant code and top CPU still has a performance jump(iOS, games etc) far greater than what you would experience when going from the Nexus to the Nexus 4.
Click to expand...

Brillant code my ass.
Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
And no, 2x is not better than 4x.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Brillant code my ass.
> Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.


*Brillant* code my ass.

Actually it is. How do you think they get away with comparatively lower specs for their phones which still provide a better experience than most of the others? (let's not even talk about android here).

*Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
*
Apple's flagship phones (fast dual cores) always end up beating quads when they're released.

And no, 2x is not better than 4x.

Read my post again. I don't think you got it.


----------



## eseb1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chcolatesnw*
> 
> "And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work."
> The fingerprint scanner hasnt worked so far because they were made on the cheap. Cheap parts, slow recognition, needed precise orientation, and wasnt integrated in the software fully. Apple does this with their designs and ease of use, they either go big or go home. They made it high quality, made it work instantly, and orientation doesnt matter. Most of all it doesnt look ugly, its pretty much hidden. Thats why others fail where apple succeds. Just now laptops are starting to use symmetrical, one piece bodies made of aluminium. Up until now lappies had plasting parts sticking out, crevices, etc. weight wasnt symmetrical, and again, multiple parts stuck together to make the body. Ugly, feels cheap. As much as people say design of these kinds of profucts is unimportant, i strongly disagree. For me its as important as the os or hardware thats inside
> .


While I agree with the cheapness of laptops in the past, the fingerprint scanner in HP notebooks is actually pretty good. It recognizes me 95% of the time, and if not I just swipe my finger again. That being said, I like the form they chose to give the fingerprint scanner in the 5S. It'd be cool to see that implemented in the new generation of Macbook Pro's


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> *Brillant* code my ass.
> 
> Actually it is. How do you think they get away with comparatively lower specs for their phones which still provide a better experience than most of the others? (let's not even talk about android here).
> 
> *Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> *
> Apple's flagship phones (fast dual cores) always end up beating quads when they're released.
> 
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.
> 
> Read my post again. I don't think you got it.


I'll say that the chances of this A7 chip beating the new Snapdragon 800 are slim, leaning toward none.

Android = bulky OS? Sure, but who are you talking to? The enthusiasts that you seem to be one of, or the average user?

And if they have comparatively lower specs, that's fine... but why do they keep charging the same prices (or higher) for something that, process for process, is slower?

Thanks - T


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eseb1*
> 
> While I agree with the cheapness of laptops in the past, the fingerprint scanner in HP notebooks is actually pretty good. It recognizes me 95% of the time, and if not I just swipe my finger again. That being said, I like the form they chose to give the fingerprint scanner in the 5S. It'd be cool to see that implemented in the new generation of Macbook Pro's


I wonder how they'll implement it. Integrating it with the Home button seems like a no brainer, but what about on the MBPs? Having a separate module for fingerprinting sticks out like a sore thumb and I cannot see Apple (known for minimalistic design) using that. The power button up top probably would be too small and angled awkwardly for a clean fingerprint.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You'd be surprised at how poor arm architecture and the CPU performance really is when it comes to project pages with hundreds of images, graphs, calculations, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> why are you even reading such complex graphs, images etc on a phone screen. the fact that it is ~5" is not a bigger issue than lag? ok
Click to expand...

Cause I like to proof read, quick edit, or open up a paper for a quick reference on my massive word documents while in the field, have limited desk space (anywhere to set up a laptop - bus, walking around, etc.), and or on the go. If I'm sitting on a bus and I find out that I forgot a mathematical operation (anything from a bracket, etc.), I could quickly edit it in office365 and get all minor tasks completed for when I get a chance to sit down (or if I can fix them right then and there, that would be great too). I have my phone on me more so then a tablet/laptop.

In school, loading up a pdf before entering the lab and giving myself a quick reference is great too! Poor CPU and it could take quick a bit of time. Maybe you haven't used a smart phone for what they were initially designed for.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Brillant code my ass.
> Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.
> 
> 
> 
> *Brillant* code my ass.
> 
> Actually it is. How do you think they get away with comparatively lower specs for their phones which still provide a better experience than most of the others? (let's not even talk about android here).
> 
> *Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> *
> Apple's flagship phones (fast dual cores) always end up beating quads when they're released.
> 
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.
> 
> Read my post again. I don't think you got it.
Click to expand...

Sorry that I make typos.

It's not brilliant.

Their "centering" code gets it off-centre (I can't find a source right now, but I remember it), their rendering code crashes with loads of strings, their anti-lag code makes it wait for animations that don't happen on the 4, it goes on, and on.

It wasn't really not expected with A7s vs A15s. Now though, we got quad A15s, so they're screwed.

No, I think the N4 probably still feels faster.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> AAAAAAHAHA!!!
> 
> Srsly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Exactly_ the reason I've gone eight months past my upgrade date w/o a change!!!
> Kept my GNex and my unlimited plan for all this time, but any upgrade right now is forcing customers to move to a tiered plan.
> Honestly, the price is LESS for my family to have an Unltd / Unltd / 10GB plan than to have a family T/T with my data seperate!
> 
> That's a strange thing to say... I had two GNex phones, and the only reason I got a second is because I drowned the first one.
> These phones are really reliable, IMO, and the speed is fine for a two-year-old model. I'd love to say the GS4 aged that well, but... it didn't.
> 
> Thanks - T


My GNex is still going, but it's speed has just never seemed fantastic with OTA software. Rooting made it better, but I would always find small things wrong with it. The most recent radios for the phone were the first that were actually decent (on the level of radio strength that I was achieving with an iPhone or Razr). Don't get me wrong, it is a solid feeling phone...even more so than the S3 and S4, but the Nexus 4 is in a class of it's own. HTC One and iPhone 4, 4S, 5, 5S level.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chcolatesnw*
> 
> "And a finger print scanner? We tried these on laptops a few years ago - it didn't work."
> The fingerprint scanner hasnt worked so far because they were made on the cheap. Cheap parts, slow recognition, needed precise orientation, and wasnt integrated in the software fully. Apple does this with their designs and ease of use, they either go big or go home. They made it high quality, made it work instantly, and orientation doesnt matter. Most of all it doesnt look ugly, its pretty much hidden. Thats why others fail where apple succeds. Just now laptops are starting to use symmetrical, one piece bodies made of aluminium. Up until now lappies had plasting parts sticking out, crevices, etc. weight wasnt symmetrical, and again, multiple parts stuck together to make the body. Ugly, feels cheap. As much as people say design of these kinds of profucts is unimportant, i strongly disagree. For me its as important as the os or hardware thats inside
> 
> Remember, its the little details that matter most.
> Such as how their cpus are still dual core but outperform quad core droids. Or they didnt join the stupid megapixels race. theres a point where a certain amount of mp is enough, from there you just have to pay attention to other things. Amount of pixels means almost nothing.


Unless it's the Lumia 1020. No phone can even hold a candle to it. Not even iPhone 5s or C or whatever. MP does make a difference if they arae used properly


----------



## Scorpion667

Wow this thread is pretty popular eh. OCN got more love for iphone then most iphone dedicated websites LOL


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> My GNex is still going, but it's speed has just never seemed fantastic with OTA software. Rooting made it better, but I would always find small things wrong with it. The most recent radios for the phone were the first that were actually decent (on the level of radio strength that I was achieving with an iPhone or Razr). Don't get me wrong, it is a solid feeling phone...even more so than the S3 and S4, but the Nexus 4 is in a class of it's own. HTC One and iPhone 4, 4S, 5, 5S level.


Yeah, fair point.

I just ordered the new LG G2 this morning, so we're gonna see if this fella (one of only two phones with the newest Snapdragon 800 CPU) can hold it's own!

Thanks - T


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> AAAAAAHAHA!!!
> 
> Srsly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Exactly_ the reason I've gone eight months past my upgrade date w/o a change!!!
> Kept my GNex and my unlimited plan for all this time, but any upgrade right now is forcing customers to move to a tiered plan.
> Honestly, the price is LESS for my family to have an Unltd / Unltd / 10GB plan than to have a family T/T with my data seperate!
> 
> Thanks - T


My GNex is definitely holding it's own with a custom ROM on it. Currently running Beanstalk 4.2.2. I refuse to upgrade, I use on average 40 gb a month. Mostly due to tethering at work.


----------



## WolfssFang

Dont know if this has been posted before


----------



## lacrossewacker

their latest promo video. This one actually tells the truth


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eseb1*
> 
> While I agree with the cheapness of laptops in the past, the fingerprint scanner in HP notebooks is actually pretty good. It recognizes me 95% of the time, and if not I just swipe my finger again. That being said, I like the form they chose to give the fingerprint scanner in the 5S. It'd be cool to see that implemented in the new generation of Macbook Pro's


Apple bought the company that HP uses, Authentec. I'm moderately impressed with the implementation on the HPs as it is. I can't believe the leap they made on the 5C.


----------



## tubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> The 4S uses the SGX543MP2. The 5 is using the SGX543MP3 but with higher clocks for roughly two times performance.
> 
> As great as it would be I don't expect the 5S to be using 600 series graphics at this point. I think it's an SGX554MP2 or MP3.


Thanks.

Any ideas when or if they'll ever let us know what's in it?


----------



## WolfssFang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> their latest promo video. This one actually tells the truth


haha that is great


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Yeah, fair point.
> 
> I just ordered the new LG G2 this morning, so we're gonna see if this fella (one of only two phones with the newest Snapdragon 800 CPU) can hold it's own!
> 
> Thanks - T


If it's anything like the LG Nexus, then it should be a great phone. Sadly enough, every time I go back to using an Android phone, I end up with an iPhone again :-/. However, the Nexus 4 would be my phone of choice if it were offered on Verizon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> My GNex is definitely holding it's own with a custom ROM on it. Currently running Beanstalk 4.2.2. I refuse to upgrade, I use on average 40 gb a month. Mostly due to tethering at work.


I had a stock 4.3 ROM on mine for a few days until I couldn't take the email not working properly anymore. This was about a month ago, so it's probably ironed out by now, but it was the smoothest, and most functional experience I've had with the phone in nearly 2 years of owning it.


----------



## Gigatel

Oh hai, a video mocking Apple. That's about as original as a Samsung designed phone.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Unless it's the Lumia 1020. No phone can even hold a candle to it. Not even iPhone 5s or C or whatever. MP does make a difference if they arae used properly


If you're printing poster sized images, sure, but even then we're still talking about a tiny sensor with really tiny pixels. Plus, who's actually making huge prints of their smartphone photos?


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I had a stock 4.3 ROM on mine for a few days until I couldn't take the email not working properly anymore. This was about a month ago, so it's probably ironed out by now, but it was the smoothest, and most functional experience I've had with the phone in nearly 2 years of owning it.


I'll be updating to 4.3 soon. People are saying good things about it.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> That's because they rewrote an optimized, not just because of 64bit.


That's it. The 64-bit processor allows them to rewrite the OS and stock apps to utilize it, which is where the real speed improvements come from.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tubers*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Any ideas when or if they'll ever let us know what's in it?


Never. But once it's out iFixIt will tear it down 

And benchmark sites will run benchmarks for exact performance.

I'd say this though: I don't think it's the PowerVR 600 series, because no one has found 600 series drivers during the iOS 7 Beta.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> If you're printing poster sized images, sure, but even then we're still talking about a tiny sensor with really tiny pixels. Plus, who's actually making huge prints of their smartphone photos?


+1 to this. We're seeing the same MP war on camera phones and it doesn't make one bit of difference. I know real estate is at a premium on smartphones but I'd love to see better sensors on them.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Oh hai, a video mocking Apple. That's about as original as a Samsung designed phone.


Regardless of what you like, it's a fairly funny video.

people who buy into this crap need a huge reality check. They're acting like the iPhone is some sort of drug.....

I mean, watch this promo. It's vomit inducing. It's like they're the ones tripping on LSD now.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Regardless of what you like, it's a fairly funny video.
> 
> people who buy into this crap need a huge reality check. They're acting like the iPhone is some sort of drug.....
> 
> I mean, watch this promo. It's vomit inducing. It's like they're the ones tripping on LSD now.


They market their products well. Any other company would do just the same if they could.

And yes that other video was funny. I saw it a couple of days ago, not the funniest I've seen though I don't think.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Regardless of what you like, it's a fairly funny video.
> 
> people who buy into this crap need a huge reality check. They're acting like the iPhone is some sort of drug.....
> 
> I mean, watch this promo. It's vomit inducing. It's like they're the ones tripping on LSD now.
> 
> *video*


Their "case" design almost made me vomit.

Seriously, WHO approved THAT hideous design? Just.... wow.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Brillant code my ass.
> Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.
> 
> 
> 
> *Brillant* code my ass.
> 
> Actually it is. How do you think they get away with comparatively lower specs for their phones which still provide a better experience than most of the others? (let's not even talk about android here).
> 
> *Top CPU? Maybe, we don't have concrete specs yet.
> *
> Apple's flagship phones (fast dual cores) always end up beating quads when they're released.
> 
> And no, 2x is not better than 4x.
> 
> Read my post again. I don't think you got it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry that I make typos.
> 
> It's not brilliant.
> 
> Their "centering" code gets it off-centre (I can't find a source right now, but I remember it), their rendering code crashes with loads of strings, their anti-lag code makes it wait for animations that don't happen on the 4, it goes on, and on.
> 
> It wasn't really not expected with A7s vs A15s. Now though, we got quad A15s, so they're screwed.
> 
> No, I think the N4 probably still feels faster.
Click to expand...

iOS is garbage for functionality. Look at Chome for iOS...it still using safari as it's backend. Apple's OS security, as it was said by professionals, is nearly 10 years behind Microsoft, even. The community used to think that Apple had a superior OS because there was a lacking malicious intent on the platform due to it's limited support (the vast majority of users with on Microsoft, in which, you'd have a limited number of attackers developing viruses, etc., for the OS) where simple memory leaks was all it took to completely break past all defences within OSX. You can't completely say the same for Linux, even though Linux does have various problems in which developers, when they create their Linux distro (be it anything from Arch to Android to iOS), it's still not as secure as one would like primarily because of it's unpopularity (regarding desktops). People forget that given it's limited function, restrictions, less user base, etc. (even Android towers over iOS), there isn't going to be a lot of people looking for backends to completely break the OS -- and MS had over a decade to fix these issues and plan for the future before Apple even bothers to care for their consumers. For such a closed platform with very limited hardware, the code on iOS is quite horrific (relatively speaking). I lol'd at the arguments of "less fragmentation due to limited hardware" and yet they, Apple, still run into serious rendering issues, breaches, etc.

Man, the amount of times I hear about Facebook having issues on iOS. I don't know what my roommate has done, but using his browser and going to the facebook webpage crashes far less then using the updated app on his 4S. To have such problems with the most used application, and how long it takes for a solution to be found, really shows you how 'fluid', and so called 'well coded' it really is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Regardless of what you like, it's a fairly funny video.
> 
> people who buy into this crap need a huge reality check. They're acting like the iPhone is some sort of drug.....
> 
> I mean, watch this promo. It's vomit inducing. It's like they're the ones tripping on LSD now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They market their products well. Any other company would do just the same if they could.
> 
> And yes that other video was funny. I saw it a couple of days ago, not the funniest I've seen though I don't think.
Click to expand...

Samsung markets well and they don't fill their customers with delusions as bad as the Apple ads did. Remember all the lies and deception they made in the market with the Windows vs Mac commercials? Samsung actually innovates; they actually attempt to add features that would bring a new experience to the device. It is not marketed as a "You need to buy" but rather a "Look what you can do". Although Apple used to have commericals showing their app market with the famous "there is an app for that", they still marketed in a way to make you think, "hey, we want you to want this," as opposed to, "hey, look, this is kinda cool, you should try it out, it would help make your lives 'better'"


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Oh hai, a video mocking Apple. That's about as original as a Samsung designed phone.
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of what you like, it's a fairly funny video.
> 
> people who buy into this crap need a huge reality check. They're acting like the iPhone is some sort of drug.....
> 
> I mean, watch this promo. It's vomit inducing. It's like they're the ones tripping on LSD now.
Click to expand...

Wow... I did feel disgusted watching that. Gross...

And they tried to...when talking about...hardware... Man I can't even finish. They stole ideas from BlackBerry for goodness sakes. That swipe up from the bottom might not get them to the home screen, but it's just a poor rip-off of a stolen idea. Frankly, I'm almost fine with that cause I like that feature; swiping from the sides of the device is great. BB10 is a great OS by all the content I've seen of it. But I can hear it now, people bragging about that feature. It's like, hey, they ripped it off of BB10!

Man...that video sickens me.


----------



## jetsam

in all honesty, 5c should be at most $450 off contract,

free with contract.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetsam*
> 
> in all honesty, 5c should be at most $450 off contract,
> 
> free with contract.


Look at the trash Motorola phones they released recently. They're way worse than the 5C and just as expensive. $100 for these phones on contract isn't that bad, it's still a very good phone and much better than 99% of all Android sets out there. I don't know why you people keep complaining about price here.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/27/4659876/motorola-droid-ultra-and-droid-maxx-review
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung actually innovates


It's funny that people here actually believe this. You have no credibility whatsoever. Nor a sense of usefulness or design or creativity or soul.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Phones made of plastic that flex and creak, sure, which is a ton of cheap android phones. Doesn't appear iPhone 5C will have that problem.


My S4 and Nexus 4 have no creaking whatsoever, maybe the cheaper phones have it. Have you even seen how they test devices at Samsung?

Check out 1:21 for the 100Kg (220 Lbs) butt test and 1:41 for the 25 degree (front and back combined) flex test *HERE*. This was taken from the engadget article *HERE*. These are normally tests done to their flagship phones that started with the S3 and continues on today for their flagships.

They even do a water test for their phones, so for me that's a quality phone tested to endure years of daily abuse. If I remember correctly a lot of iPhone screens broke after being sat on and flexed for more than a few degrees (My wife's iphone screen cracked for one and we had to have it replaced - never had that problem with my phones). So until the 5C comes out and people actually abuse it with their daily routines will we see how reliable a product it is.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> ... It's funny that people here actually believe this. You have no credibility whatsoever. Nor a sense of usefulness or design or creativity or soul.


So exchanging pics and files and cards by simply touching your phone together is not new or useful? Smart stay, you know, your phone won't turn off it's screen, or if your actually looking at the screen can actually pause a video (when I look away) I'm watching isn't new or useful? Direct call, by simply having the contact displayed on screen, and by simply placing the phone on your ears, it calls the contact right away isn't new or useful?

I can name some more which are actually things I use on my phone and are new and very useful since it reduces actions to activate or run something is actually good you know.

I mean come on, before you even bash please know some things about a product first hand. I have some apple products as well and I like them because they look good and work fine, but to blindly state things about something is just very childish.


----------



## Gigatel

Those are useless gimmicks that are half baked. Truth hurts I guess.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Those are useless gimmicks that are half baked. Truth hurts I guess.


"I don't use these things therefore they must be gimmicks and my word is truth."

How conceited do you have to be to assume your own experiences/wants constitutes universal truth?


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> "I don't use these things therefore they must be gimmicks and my word is truth."
> 
> How conceited do you have to be to assume your own experiences/wants constitutes universal truth?


Get over yourself. How often do you see people tapping phones together? Only in commercials. The other software features were horribly reviewed. You're so defensive.


----------



## Skylit

Both sides of each camp acting like children. Never fails!


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Get over yourself. How often do you see people tapping phones together? Only in commercials. The other software features were horribly reviewed. You're so defensive.


I've defended both iPhone and Android phones on this thread. I'm not so insecure in myself that I have to judge people by what things they own.

To answer your question: Fairly often. Most of my nonprogrammer friends have S3s/S4s (programmer friends are split between iPhone4s/5 and N4). The Galaxy crowd I see using the NFC stuff fairly often. It's still second nature for me to just send them a Dropbox link for photos (I set my Camera Upload to do so automatically), and using NFC doesn't even cross my mind, but it doesn't mean I don't see people who use it on a regular basis.

Like I said, just because you don't think it's useful to you doesn't mean that everyone else must abide by your opinion.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Both sides of each camp acting like children. Never fails!


Mostly insecure people on both sides defending their own phone while attacking the other. Honestly, I never got it. People must have really horrible lives and self esteems to start judging others based on what phones they use.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpH4hrV38J0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUt8OnQ7ztuLrPrehlj8ZuuQ


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> I've defended both iPhone and Android phones on this thread. I'm not so insecure in myself that I have to judge people by what things they own.
> 
> To answer your question: Fairly often. Most of my nonprogrammer friends have S3s/S4s (programmer friends are split between iPhone4s/5 and N4). The Galaxy crowd I see using the NFC stuff fairly often. It's still second nature for me to just send them a Dropbox link for photos (I set my Camera Upload to do so automatically), and using NFC doesn't even cross my mind, but it doesn't mean I don't see people who use it on a regular basis.
> 
> Like I said, just because you don't think it's useful to you doesn't mean that everyone else must abide by your opinion.
> Mostly insecure people on both sides defending their own phone while attacking the other. Honestly, I never got it. People must have really horrible lives and self esteems to start judging others based on what phones they use.


That's the thing that gets me as well, people who just won't be even keeled. They say it's a gimmick because they don't use it or their eco-system doesn't have it.

I myself have purchased from both camps and use a lot of the features I mention for Android like transferring files just by tapping. It's easier and faster than waiting for BT transfers that's for sure. When watching movies, who's never had the experience of your screen not shutting off and going to sleep. I find the smart stay feature good because I don't have to turn off standby screen and then turn it on again after watching videos, I don't think that's a gimmick that's a convenience. Finally, reducing the number of taps to actually call someone is not a convenience as well?

It's the same for Apple products, they have their good features like having really long battery life on most their products. Almost all products I buy from them are made from ALU so that's good quality. Environment is a closed but the OS is very smooth and it's user friendly. There are other things from both camps that are good. Remember competition breeds excellence.

@Gigatel, instead of being preachy and being a know it all (at least that's what you come across as) that actually just spews stuff, why not contribute to the discussion instead?







. Seriously, I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing stuff out.

Back on topic: I still think the 5C will sell, it's the same formula they used with the ipods of yore. I bought my first ipod mini because it looked awesome, had very intuitive controls and had big drives back then (the drives died twice which apple thankfully replaced under warranty). I don't like the new ipods, the dac isn't as good as the wolfson from old. Though I still use my ipod video 5.5 and have it rockboxed to play .flac and other lossless files. Plus, to be fair Apple has good customer service, at least where I'm from.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> That's the thing that gets me as well, people who just won't be even keeled. They say it's a gimmick because they don't use it or their eco-system doesn't have it.
> 
> I myself have purchased from both camps and use a lot of the features I mention for Android like transferring files just by tapping. It's easier and faster than waiting for BT transfers that's for sure. When watching movies, who's never had the experience of your screen not shutting off and going to sleep. I find the smart stay feature good because I don't have to turn off standby screen and then turn it on again after watching videos, I don't think that's a gimmick that's a convenience. Finally, reducing the number of taps to actually call someone is not a convenience as well?
> 
> It's the same for Apple products, they have their good features like having really long battery life on most their products. Almost all products I buy from them are made from ALU so that's good quality. Environment is a closed but the OS is very smooth and it's user friendly. There are other things from both camps that are good. Remember competition breeds excellence.
> 
> @Gigatel, instead of being preachy and being a know it all (at least that's what you come across as) that actually just spews stuff, why not contribute to the discussion instead?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Seriously, I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing stuff out.
> 
> Back on topic: I still think the 5C will sell, it's the same formula they used with the ipods of yore. I bought my first ipod mini because it looked awesome, had very intuitive controls and had big drives back then (the drives died twice which apple thankfully replaced under warranty). I don't like the new ipods, the dac isn't as good as the wolfson from old. Though I still use my ipod video 5.5 and have it rockboxed to play .flac and other lossless files. Plus, to be fair Apple has good customer service, at least where I'm from.


That they do. I personally am an Android/PC user myself, but I've seen Apple treat their customers very well. My brother, GF, and some close friends all have Apple products and I've seen them go above and beyond for things way out of warranty, like my GF's 2009 MBP.

I do think the 5c will sell well too, because in the end it IS Apple. It still appeals greatly to mainstream users and five years after the original iPhone, there's a ton of people locked into Apple's ecosystem now. It's definitely going to sell.

But yea, back to the bigger topic: I never understood why people have to be so defensive of their platforms. Both sides have features that the other doesn't, and you never truly realize how cool they are until you use them. Case in point: I've ran Windows/Ubuntu for most of my life. I'm used to reinstalling OSes through flash drives and never thought I would even need Apple's ability to reinstall from a backup on the HDD itself until my GF's MBP crashed and I was able to reinstall OS X just like that. Definitely extremely convenient and now I kind of envy not having that ability for my OSes.


----------



## steelbom

I think the word "gimmicky" is overused. I think if something is gimmicky, it appears to have value but is actually useless to pretty much everyone. As opposed to features on a smartphone being useful and useless depending on the person using it.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpH4hrV38J0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUt8OnQ7ztuLrPrehlj8ZuuQ


This should light up more fires! I find it funny though, but my daughter would still probably want it.

Favorite part... Baboon's behind!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I think the word "gimmicky" is overused. I think if something is gimmicky, it appears to have value but is actually useless to pretty much everyone. As opposed to features on a smartphone being useful and useless depending on the person using it.


Right on the head about gimmicky ... "being useful and useless depending on the person using it."

That's why I love having discussions with steelbom, he may be a loyal apple fan but at least he always brings a good and adult conversation to OCN.

@Steelbom - One thing that I don't understand about apple is why don't they make a phone that's like between 4.5~5.0 inches big in terms of screen. That would sell like hot cakes, right? Don't they have the tech to come up with good screens in that range? I'm sure they do, so why not? It's really hard to use a phone that narrow, even my wife doesn't like using the browser on her iPhone and ends up using my S4 or my 7" tablet to browse and read the news.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Those are useless gimmicks that are half baked. Truth hurts I guess.


The screen saying on when you're looking at it? That's a crazy useful feature. I like to have my screen set to turn off fairly fast (when it's on a table), but I also like to read stuff on it (and the text is small - so there's a LOT on screen at once). Before, on my S2, it was just annoying; i'd be reading some article, screen would turn off. Gotta hit the side button, do the password thing, then continue reading. Smart stay removes that problem entirely. I'm actually surprised it hadn't been implemented before.

The eye-scrolling? Yea, THAT'S a gimmick. It doesn't work. It's a cool implementation of the tech, but it barely works. Same goes for the video-pause. I often glance away every now and then when watching videos, and it pauses every single time. If I want it to pause, I'll hit pause. Otherwise, it's just annoying. But then again, Siri and the fingerprint thing are just gimmicks as well...

I have yet to use NFC, simply because I've yet to run into a situation where it would be useful. The only way I would use it more often is if it could actually send entire apps to another phone - and not just a stupid link to the market place.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Right on the head about gimmicky ... "being useful and useless depending on the person using it."
> 
> That's why I love having discussions with steelbom, he may be a loyal apple fan but at least he always brings a good and adult conversation to OCN.
> 
> @Steelbom - One thing that I don't understand about apple is why don't they make a phone that's like between 4.5~5.0 inches big in terms of screen. That would sell like hot cakes, right? Don't they have the tech to come up with good screens in that range? I'm sure they do, so why not? It's really hard to use a phone that narrow, even my wife doesn't like using the browser on her iPhone and ends up using my S4 or my 7" tablet to browse and read the news.


Small little things every year. If they did all at once there would be not much else. Also they want to make it so each phone does not seem vastly different from there other.


----------



## JTHMfreak

So apple now has everyone's fingerprints along with their names?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> The screen saying on when you're looking at it? That's a crazy useful feature. I like to have my screen set to turn off fairly fast (when it's on a table), but I also like to read stuff on it (and the text is small - so there's a LOT on screen at once). Before, on my S2, it was just annoying; i'd be reading some article, screen would turn off. Gotta hit the side button, do the password thing, then continue reading. Smart stay removes that problem entirely. I'm actually surprised it hadn't been implemented before.
> 
> The eye-scrolling? Yea, THAT'S a gimmick. It doesn't work. It's a cool implementation of the tech, but it barely works. Same goes for the video-pause. I often glance away every now and then when watching videos, and it pauses every single time. If I want it to pause, I'll hit pause. Otherwise, it's just annoying. But then again, Siri and the fingerprint thing are just gimmicks as well...
> 
> I have yet to use NFC, simply because I've yet to run into a situation where it would be useful. The only way I would use it more often is if it could actually send entire apps to another phone - and not just a stupid link to the market place.


The eye scrolling I don't use, but another useful feature you might want to try is voice activated control, i use it often to stop or snooze my phone daily when my alarm goes off (so I don't have to reach for the phone to do it - works for me but maybe not for some lazy ones out there who'll just sleep through it). I also use it to take pictures of my 2 kids (say cheese or shoot) since the phone doesn't really have a dedicated button for the cam. It actually helps take a good picture since you can hold the cam steady and just say "shoot". There are also a few voice activated features i use for driving. I can just say a recorded activation message to check messages and missed calls from the lock screen, instead of asking for either SIRI or Google Voice first and then asking what my missed messages and calls are.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Small little things every year. If they did all at once there would be not much else. Also they want to make it so each phone does not seem vastly different from there other.


So basically a cash cow, huh?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTHMfreak*
> 
> So apple now has everyone's fingerprints along with their names?


I think that's not true, even if apple has your finger print and name the government already has it (the day you were born in the US). I also think that people are just over reacting t the whole privacy thing in the last year or so. Understandable but a little bit of an over reaction in my opinion.

Of course if you live in Asia or anywhere else, i doubt that all carriers followed what the US companies did to give access to the Government.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think that's not true, even if apple has your finger print and name the government already has it (the day you were born in the US). I also think that people are just over reacting t the whole privacy thing in the last year or so. Understandable but a little bit of an over reaction in my opinion.
> 
> Of course if you live in Asia or anywhere else, i doubt that all carriers followed what the US companies did to give access to the Government.


I was just thinking that. I mean, I'm not sure how other states are, but I had to be fingerprinted by the DMV for my driver's license. I'd imagine it's a hell of a lot easier for the NSA to ask another government agency for my fingerprint than it is for them to ask a privately held company.


----------



## WolfssFang

Wow they have yet to to add NFC on the iphone? What a joke.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Right on the head about gimmicky ... "being useful and useless depending on the person using it."
> 
> That's why I love having discussions with steelbom, he may be a loyal apple fan but at least he always brings a good and adult conversation to OCN.
> 
> @Steelbom - One thing that I don't understand about apple is why don't they make a phone that's like between 4.5~5.0 inches big in terms of screen. That would sell like hot cakes, right? Don't they have the tech to come up with good screens in that range? I'm sure they do, so why not? It's really hard to use a phone that narrow, even my wife doesn't like using the browser on her iPhone and ends up using my S4 or my 7" tablet to browse and read the news.


=) likewise =)

It's partly whether Apple thinks there's a market for it -- and I think they're starting to see the need for such a device. Also they need to let the iOS ecosystem adjust to using auto-layout (in iOS 6) and so forth. I would go for the largest screen size I could get. Same for iPad -- I want 12.9 inch lol.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> =) likewise =)
> 
> It's partly whether Apple thinks there's a market for it -- and I think they're starting to see the need for such a device. Also they need to let the iOS ecosystem adjust to using auto-layout (in iOS 6) and so forth. I would go for the largest screen size I could get. Same for iPad -- I want 12.9 inch lol.


I can see a 13" tablet working for home use but I prefer something in between a 7" and a 10" for my portable use. I feel like my Nexus 7 is a tad bit small for me when viewing media and reading articles on the go and really wish it was an inch or so bigger. They need to keep the 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio versus going 4:3 with the usual 8" tablet.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I can see a 13" tablet working for home use but I prefer something in between a 7" and a 10" for my portable use. I feel like my Nexus 7 is a tad bit small for me when viewing media and reading articles on the go and really wish it was an inch or so bigger. They need to keep the 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio versus going 4:3 with the usual 8" tablet.


Yeah... I had the iPad 3 but really liked the portability of the mini.... but then I realised I don't need portability LOL. So I'm going back to the iPad 5 when it's released. Unless there's a 12.9 inch iPad available. Probably won't be ready this round though, next time.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> That's because they rewrote an optimized, not just because of 64bit.
> 
> 
> 
> That's it. The 64-bit processor allows them to rewrite the OS and stock apps to utilize it, which is where the real speed improvements come from.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tubers*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Any ideas when or if they'll ever let us know what's in it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never. But once it's out iFixIt will tear it down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And benchmark sites will run benchmarks for exact performance.
> 
> I'd say this though: I don't think it's the PowerVR 600 series, because no one has found 600 series drivers during the iOS 7 Beta.
Click to expand...

Far from it. They might use longs more, but the bulk of it will be optimizing bad code.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jetsam*
> 
> in all honesty, 5c should be at most $450 off contract,
> 
> free with contract.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the trash Motorola phones they released recently. They're way worse than the 5C and just as expensive. $100 for these phones on contract isn't that bad, it's still a very good phone and much better than 99% of all Android sets out there. I don't know why you people keep complaining about price here.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/27/4659876/motorola-droid-ultra-and-droid-maxx-review
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung actually innovates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny that people here actually believe this. You have no credibility whatsoever. Nor a sense of usefulness or design or creativity or soul.
Click to expand...

Please actually understand what you're talking about before accusing people of having no credibility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Those are useless gimmicks that are half baked. Truth hurts I guess.


Try them? They're really useful, and this comes from a WP user.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> iOS is garbage for functionality. Look at Chome for iOS...it still using safari as it's backend. Apple's OS security, as it was said by professionals, is nearly 10 years behind Microsoft, even. The community used to think that Apple had a superior OS because there was a lacking malicious intent on the platform due to it's limited support (the vast majority of users with on Microsoft, in which, you'd have a limited number of attackers developing viruses, etc., for the OS) where simple memory leaks was all it took to completely break past all defences within OSX. You can't completely say the same for Linux, even though Linux does have various problems in which developers, when they create their Linux distro (be it anything from Arch to Android to iOS), it's still not as secure as one would like primarily because of it's unpopularity (regarding desktops). People forget that given it's limited function, restrictions, less user base, etc. (even Android towers over iOS), there isn't going to be a lot of people looking for backends to completely break the OS -- and MS had over a decade to fix these issues and plan for the future before Apple even bothers to care for their consumers. For such a closed platform with very limited hardware, the code on iOS is quite horrific (relatively speaking). I lol'd at the arguments of "less fragmentation due to limited hardware" and yet they, Apple, still run into serious rendering issues, breaches, etc.
> 
> Man, the amount of times I hear about Facebook having issues on iOS. I don't know what my roommate has done, but using his browser and going to the facebook webpage crashes far less then using the updated app on his 4S. To have such problems with the most used application, and how long it takes for a solution to be found, really shows you how 'fluid', and so called 'well coded' it really is.
> Samsung markets well and they don't fill their customers with delusions as bad as the Apple ads did. Remember all the lies and deception they made in the market with the Windows vs Mac commercials? *Samsung actually innovates*; they actually attempt to add features that would bring a new experience to the device. It is not marketed as a "You need to buy" but rather a "Look what you can do". Although Apple used to have commericals showing their app market with the famous "there is an app for that", they still marketed in a way to make you think, "hey, we want you to want this," as opposed to, "hey, look, this is kinda cool, you should try it out, it would help make your lives 'better'"


Your's has definitely got to be the most ignorant post i've seen on OCN for a while. I haven't even bothered reading your entire post because it doesn't make sense.

Samsung actually innovates?







Not in the smartphone industry


----------



## 3930K

^ What bout Smart Stay, auto scroll, hover hand gestures, and more?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> The screen saying on when you're looking at it? That's a crazy useful feature. I like to have my screen set to turn off fairly fast (when it's on a table), but I also like to read stuff on it (and the text is small - so there's a LOT on screen at once). Before, on my S2, it was just annoying; i'd be reading some article, screen would turn off. Gotta hit the side button, do the password thing, then continue reading. Smart stay removes that problem entirely. I'm actually surprised it hadn't been implemented before.
> 
> The eye-scrolling? Yea, THAT'S a gimmick. It doesn't work. It's a cool implementation of the tech, but it barely works. Same goes for the video-pause. I often glance away every now and then when watching videos, and it pauses every single time. If I want it to pause, I'll hit pause. Otherwise, it's just annoying. But then again, Siri and the fingerprint thing are just gimmicks as well...
> 
> I have yet to use NFC, simply because I've yet to run into a situation where it would be useful. The only way I would use it more often is if it could actually send entire apps to another phone - and not just a stupid link to the market place.


Alternatively to Smart Stay, you can always pull down your notification bar and tap the screen timer button a couple times. Not sure if Samsung still implements this with their stock software, but AOSPA and CM 10.x let you customize those buttons.

I personally don't care for the interface Samsung has been going for lately, so features like that are nearly useless (to me). I always like to compare my Android experience to that with a stock or nearly stock ROM. AOSPA is stock, but still has a lot of useful features (again, to me) so I tend to use it on any Android phone I come across, unless it's a Nexus device. I personally enjoy iOS and vanilla Android. My inventory is riddled with 2 iPhone 4's, an iPhone 5, iPad 2, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, Galaxy Nexus, and 2 MacBook Airs. For me, It's more of a dilemma of what I like, as I really think the Nexus 4 (gf had one for some time, and is possibly getting another one) and Nexus 10 are the most streamlined Android devices to ever come into existence. Those two devices alone could make any Apple lover open their eyes to what Android is actually capable of being.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Alternatively to Smart Stay, you can always pull down your notification bar and tap the screen timer button a couple times. Not sure if Samsung still implements this with their stock software, but AOSPA and CM 10.x let you customize those buttons.
> 
> I personally don't care for the interface Samsung has been going for lately, so features like that are nearly useless (to me). I always like to compare my Android experience to that with a stock or nearly stock ROM. AOSPA is stock, but still has a lot of useful features (again, to me) so I tend to use it on any Android phone I come across, unless it's a Nexus device. I personally enjoy iOS and vanilla Android. My inventory is riddled with *2 iPhone 4's, an iPhone 5, iPad 2, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, Galaxy Nexus, and 2 MacBook Airs*. For me, It's more of a dilemma of what I like, as I really think the Nexus 4 (gf had one for some time, and is possibly getting another one) and Nexus 10 are the most streamlined Android devices to ever come into existence. Those two devices alone could make any Apple lover open their eyes to what Android is actually capable of being.












I understand having many different devices, but why the need for two MBAs and 2 iPhone 4's?


----------



## GermanyChris

His and Hers it's cute


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> His and Hers it's cute


\

In that case, do you think Pez needs another man in their life?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand having many different devices, but why the need for two MBAs and 2 iPhone 4's?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> His and Hers it's cute


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> \
> 
> In that case, do you think Pez needs another man in their life?


Haha, Chris has it right. My GF has one of the Airs and one of the iPhone 4's. She really still loves the 4 (was mine before hand), but I'm trying to convince her to upgrade







. It means I get to play with her new toys, too







.

The other iPhone 4 is pretty beat up with a small crack that was used after not being able to stand my GNex...yeah, Verizon made it that bad. It's also where I discovered how terrible Verizon 3G Data is. I keep the GNex around for backup purposes and to play around with ROMs on it. 4.3 did a great deal for it, so it might see some love from me every once in a while. The iPhone 5 is mine, however. This thing is used and used and I'm utterly in love with it. The LTE 'upgrade' made the phone worth it for me. It's the simplicity, convenience, and pure functionality that I need in my life...and battery life.

The Nexus 7 doesn't see too much use anymore, as the Nexus 10 has taken over when I have tablet needs. It's caveat, though, is no physical keyboard, which is fixed by the Air. The screen on the Nexus 10, though, is quite a thing of beauty. Lastly, the iPad 2 is in possession of my GF, too. We're fairly decked out and spoiled, but my love for tech and tech devices has spread to her







.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> If you're printing poster sized images, sure, but even then we're still talking about a tiny sensor with really tiny pixels. Plus, who's actually making huge prints of their smartphone photos?


Why dont you actually take a look at what it does? People just bash crap unknowingly.

MP and "reinvented zoom" aren't a gimmick...what other camera phone can do this? No photo editing. Look at how much detail is actually caught in the spider zoomed in.



Zoomed and reframed





or maybe you would make a poster if you had this job. Or what about quality 16:9 photos from you're own camera without needing a DSLR?


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Alternatively to Smart Stay, you can always pull down your notification bar and tap the screen timer button a couple times. Not sure if Samsung still implements this with their stock software, but AOSPA and CM 10.x let you customize those buttons.
> 
> I personally don't care for the interface Samsung has been going for lately, so features like that are nearly useless (to me). I always like to compare my Android experience to that with a stock or nearly stock ROM. AOSPA is stock, but still has a lot of useful features (again, to me) so I tend to use it on any Android phone I come across, unless it's a Nexus device. I personally enjoy iOS and vanilla Android. My inventory is riddled with 2 iPhone 4's, an iPhone 5, iPad 2, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, Galaxy Nexus, and 2 MacBook Airs. For me, It's more of a dilemma of what I like, as I really think the Nexus 4 (gf had one for some time, and is possibly getting another one) and Nexus 10 are the most streamlined Android devices to ever come into existence. Those two devices alone could make any Apple lover open their eyes to what Android is actually capable of being.


You could turn in that iPad2 for $200 or more at a MS store and grab a Surface


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Why dont you actually take a look at what it does? People just bash crap unknowingly.


Bash unknowingly? Jason is a professional photographer. I'm pretty sure he knows more about cameras than you do.

But since you insist:

MPs are only a way to measure resolution. They're not indicative of the image quality. The problem with cramming more MPs onto an image sensor is that you're going to get a higher noise to signal ratio which means either grainy pics or the camera has to bump up noise reduction, leading to a loss of detail.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> No photo editing. Look at how much detail is actually caught in the spider zoomed in.


Yes photo editing. Just because the phone does it automatically for you doesn't mean that there's no photo editing involved. You're really betraying how little you actually know about photography.

Zooming in all I see is a high resolution image with noticeable loss in fine details. Every detail looks blurred which means either image sensor can't capture it properly or the image was run through too aggressive a NR filter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> or maybe you would make a poster if you had this job. Or what about quality 16:9 photos from you're own camera without needing a DSLR?


Again, you're just betraying how little you know about photography. You can get 16:9 shots from any camera. 16:9 is just an aspect ratio. It has *nothing* to do with the image quality of a camera.

Seriously, stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> Bash unknowingly? Jason is a professional photographer. I'm pretty sure he knows more about cameras than you do.
> 
> But since you insist:
> 
> MPs are only a way to measure resolution. They're not indicative of the image quality..


So that's why my classic D80 shoots better pictures than my neat new Sony P&S


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> So that's why my classic D80 shoots better pictures than my neat new Sony P&S


Blasphemy!









But seriously though, I love my 60D but I find myself using my N4's (admittedly subpar) camera more out of convenience. I have nothing against P&S or camera phones. It just irks me when people still do the "Look gaiz, mor mega pixels!!11! Is better camura!"

I would really love for manufacturers to start adding bigger sensors into their cameras. I already know better lenses are going to be extremely difficult (Can you imagine the torture of sticking a high end lens in your pocket every day?), so it seems to me sensor size is the only avenue left for better camera phones.


----------



## ar3f

Apple sells the idea that it knows better what's good for you - what Apple does not consider necessary, you also should not want or try.
Samsung, on the other hand, throws at you anything it can do - even stuff you might have no idea that you might ever want or need.
Your choice is who you are


----------



## GermanyChris

Apple sells phone to people vested in the Apple ecosystem. Apple implements technologies that it thinks people want that can be implemented the Apple way. It's always been that way it will always be that way. Most of the people here fathers said much the same thing you guys say, really nothing new is being brought up.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> Bash unknowingly? Jason is a professional photographer. I'm pretty sure he knows more about cameras than you do.
> 
> But since you insist:
> 
> MPs are only a way to measure resolution. They're not indicative of the image quality. The problem with cramming more MPs onto an image sensor is that you're going to get a higher noise to signal ratio which means either grainy pics or the camera has to bump up noise reduction, leading to a loss of detail.
> Yes photo editing. Just because the phone does it automatically for you doesn't mean that there's no photo editing involved. You're really betraying how little you actually know about photography.
> 
> Zooming in all I see is a high resolution image with noticeable loss in fine details. Every detail looks blurred which means either image sensor can't capture it properly or the image was run through too aggressive a NR filter.
> Again, you're just betraying how little you know about photography. You can get 16:9 shots from any camera. 16:9 is just an aspect ratio. It has *nothing* to do with the image quality of a camera.
> 
> Seriously, stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.


Dude,
take a pill. First of all...Like I know who is a pro photographer on this site. Second of all, my point was that MP aren't always a gimmick. I would like to see you post pics from any other phone that has the same capability with the same quality.
And btw, These images were lifted from another site. I don't think they are the full size image. And if you insist on being so rude with your comment the word is actually PORTRAY, not betray.

Why dont read an actual legit review and put things into perspective a bit and realize it's a phone!
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/5234892048/nokia-lumia-1020-camera-review

Then I love how you come straight out and say you wish phones would come out with larger sensors...that's exactly what this is. Granted the pixel count is huge...but it is a larger sensor than most phones. Can't find a list of sensor sizes in phones, but with the 808 and 1020 being 1/1.2 and 1/1.5 respectively, my hunch is that they are larger than most anything out there.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*


talk about grain galore









P.S. Still not bad for a phone!!!


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Dude,
> take a pill. First of all...Like I know who is a pro photographer on this site. Second of all, my point was that MP aren't always a gimmick. I would like to see you post pics from any other phone that has the same capability with the same quality.
> And btw, These images were lifted from another site. I don't think they are the full size image. And if you insist on being so rude with your comment the word is actually PORTRAY, not betray.
> 
> Why dont read an actual legit review and put things into perspective a bit and realize it's a phone!
> http://connect.dpreview.com/post/5234892048/nokia-lumia-1020-camera-review


I did check out the original pics (you hotlinked it straight from there rather than embed the pictures into your post). My comments still stand. Not that it matters - you're a special kind of thick. I never said this is a bad camera phone. I was supporting the fact that MPs aren't an indicator of quality. Hell, even Jason's original post never mentioned anything about the Lumia being a bad camera phone. You're the one that got your panties in a twist and put words that were never said.

And I "insist" on being rude because you were originally to Jason. Don't call others misinformed when you know absolutely nothing about photography yourself. The fact that you linked to dpreview is further proof of this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> talk about grain galore


Right? Seriously, no one said that it was a bad camera phone (no idea where he got that idea from), but it's still a small sensor and packing extra MPs still does nothing for the phone.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar3f*
> 
> Apple sells the idea that it knows better what's good for you - what Apple does not consider necessary, you also should not want or try.
> Samsung, on the other hand, throws at you anything it can do - even stuff you might have no idea that you might ever want or need.
> Your choice is who you are


it's funny, I got into a discussion about this very thing with my brother. He's says, why would i ever need a bigger screen? I said well once you use a 4.5 inch screen, I guarantee you wont go back...just like the PU truck you drive and dont even tow or put anything in the back...why would you ever need a PU truck? even if you didn't "need it" initially, you may discover things you like that you didn't know you would like...like Rich Audio recording in the L1020 etc.
He didn't like that answer very much.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> I did check out the original pics (you hotlinked it straight from there rather than embed the pictures into your post). My comments still stand. Not that it matters - you're a special kind of thick. I never said this is a bad camera phone. I was supporting the fact that MPs aren't an indicator of quality. Hell, even Jason's original post never mentioned anything about the Lumia being a bad camera phone. You're the one that got your panties in a twist and put words that were never said.
> 
> And I "insist" on being rude because you were originally to Jason. Don't call others misinformed when you know absolutely nothing about photography yourself. The fact that you linked to dpreview is further proof of this.
> Right? Seriously, no one said that it was a bad camera phone (no idea where he got that idea from), but it's still a small sensor and packing extra MPs still does nothing for the phone.


Dude the sensor is just as large if not larger than some point & shoots. My original point still stands. I argued that MP are not a gimmick. But you went off on image quality etc. I brought pics to show that MP are not always a gimmick because they can add function like the 1020. But you insisted on image quality, which you bash...but say is good in the same sentence. You are arguing something different. I dont care that you are some expert photographer. And you obviously can't let go of some grudge against camera phones or something. But you can't plainly admit that MP in this instance are not pure gimmick. Especially seeing as no other camera phone can come close to the quality or function. Yo can't even admit that in the extremely limited space of a phone that this is at least a admirable attempt at producing a good camera worth using. You just snub your nose


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> it's funny, I got into a discussion about this very thing with my brother. He's says, why would i ever need a bigger screen? I said well once you use a 4.5 inch screen, I guarantee you wont go back...just like the PU truck you drive and dont even tow or put anything in the back...why would you ever need a PU truck?


so 4.5" phones are like pickup trucks? no one needs them and they are ruining the environment and wasting our limited precious oil reserves?


----------



## GermanyChris

I don't want bigger than a 3.5 in screen more specifically I don't want anything bigger than the outside dimensions of an iPhone 4/4s no matter how wonderfullperfectinsanelygreat the phone is


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Dude the sensor is just as large if not larger than some point & shoots. My original point still stands. I argued that MP are not a gimmick. But you went off on image quality etc. I brought pics to show that MP are not always a gimmick because they can add function like the 1020. But you insisted on image quality, which you bash...but say is good in the same sentence. You are arguing something different. I dont care that you are some expert photographer. And you obviously can't let go of some grudge against camera phones or something. But you can't plainly admit that MP in this instance are not pure gimmick. Especially seeing as no other camera phone can come close to the quality or function.


MPs come at the expense of image quality. I explained this in my earlier post - the more MPs you pack onto a sensor, the worse the image quality becomes. Detail becomes muddled, noise-to-signal ratio gets higher, NR is usually raised to compensate at the further expense of detail. That's why after a certain point, MPs are a gimmick. The image resolution gets to a size that you're not going to use anyways while degrading image quality needlessly.

I also mentioned in another post I have nothing against camera phones. You're the one that keeps putting words in my mouth. I already said I use my N4 much more often than I do with my DSLR because of the convenience.

God it's like I'm talking to someone with the reading comprehension of a cat.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> MPs come at the expense of image quality. I explained this in my earlier post - the more MPs you pack onto a sensor, the worse the image quality becomes. Detail becomes muddled, noise-to-signal ratio gets higher, NR is usually raised to compensate at the further expense of detail. That's why after a certain point, MPs are a gimmick. The image resolution gets to a size that you're not going to use anyways while degrading image quality needlessly.
> 
> I also mentioned in another post I have nothing against camera phones. You're the one that keeps putting words in my mouth. I already said I use my N4 much more often than I do with my DSLR because of the convenience.
> 
> God it's like I'm talking to someone with the reading comprehension of a cat.


But it depends on the sensor size. If the sensor is 4x larger you could theoretically increase the MP by 4x and they would stay the same size no?


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> God it's like I'm talking to someone with the reading comprehension of a gnat.


FTFY


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> But it depends on the sensor size. If the sensor is 4x larger you could theoretically increase the MP by 4x and they would stay the same size no?


And there's for rediculous comments...retired staff can't even keep it civil.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> But it depends on the sensor size. If the sensor is 4x larger you could theoretically increase the MP by 4x and they would stay the same size no?


Yes, and since the Lumia 1020 uses a 1/1.5" sensor then it could get away with more MPs without degrading quality. However, 41MPs is absolutely ridiculous. At that point it absolutely is a gimmick because that resolution is too much for that size sensor while the extra resolution is absolutely extraneous. If it was something more sensible like a 10MP camera (on par with other cameras with its sensor size) versus the ~5MP of most camera phones with smaller sensors, then I would have a different opinion. But in this case, 41MPs on a 1/1.5"? Gimmick
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> FTFY


Thanks








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> And there's for rediculous comments...retired staff can't even keep it civil.


Then work on your reading comprehension if you don't want people criticizing that.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> MPs come at the expense of image quality. I explained this in my earlier post - the more MPs you pack onto a sensor, the worse the image quality becomes. Detail becomes muddled, noise-to-signal ratio gets higher, NR is usually raised to compensate at the further expense of detail. That's why after a certain point, MPs are a gimmick. The image resolution gets to a size that you're not going to use anyways while degrading image quality needlessly.
> 
> I also mentioned in another post I have nothing against camera phones. You're the one that keeps putting words in my mouth. I already said I use my N4 much more often than I do with my DSLR because of the convenience.
> 
> God it's like I'm talking to someone with the reading comprehension of a cat.


sure it's not really ideal. but the thing is, would you rather have zero zoom (aka digital zoom only) or some zoom even with flaws. i think they can improve this technology over time as well. either way, though it's not perfect, it vastly expands the range of photographs you can take with your camera


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> Yes, and since the Lumia 1020 uses a 1/1.5" sensor then it could get away with more MPs without degrading quality. However, 41MPs is absolutely ridiculous. At that point it absolutely is a gimmick because that resolution is too much for that size sensor while the extra resolution is absolutely extraneous. If it was something more sensible like a 10MP camera (on par with other cameras with its sensor size) versus the ~5MP of most camera phones with smaller sensors, then I would have a different opinion. But in this case, 41MPs on a 1/1.5"? Gimmick
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then work on your reading comprehension if you don't want people criticizing that.


Nah, why dont you work on actually helping people who you think you know more than rather than being a jerk and insulting them.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Nah, why dont you work on actually helping people who you think you know more than rather than being a jerk can insulting them.


English still horrid. But let me break it down for you:

* You were originally rude to a friend of mine on here and came from a place of ignorance

* I reciprocated.

* You continued being rude to me, still from a place of ignorance

* You repeatedly made claims that Jason and I said things that we never did, and at times the complete opposite of what I've actually said

* Now that you're in a corner, you're criticizing me for being rude when you were the original instigator in the first place

So in short, your stance boils down to:
"Boo hoo I'm always right and you can't be mean to me!"
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> sure it's not really ideal. but the thing is, would you rather have zero zoom (aka digital zoom only) or some zoom even with flaws. i think they can improve this technology over time as well. either way, though it's not perfect, it vastly expands the range of photographs you can take with your camera


Personally I'd rather have 10-15MP on that camera. A 1920x1080 print roughly correlates to 2MP, so you still would have a ton of space to work with in regards to cropping/digital zoom. Meanwhile, you'd see a very noticeable difference in image quality, esp at high ISO. Besides, I'd argue that the biggest flaw of camera phones isn't their resolutions but their image quality, esp with regards to noise-to-signal ratio. People in my social circles (early 20s, fresh out of college) tend to go out at night more than we do during the daytime, and consequently our camera phones are more often used in low light situations where image noise (that "grain" you see in low light shots) becomes a huge issue.

The Lumia 1020 camera itself is a good camera (I never claimed it was horrible), but it could have been much better. IMO, I think they ran in the wrong direction with it. They could have easily used a 15MP sensor ("Double the resolution of the iPhone 5!") and with that resolution there would be clearer IQ, esp with the improvements Nokia made to that sensor already. It could have been one hell of a "social life" phone.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> And there's for rediculous comments...retired staff can't even keep it civil.


lets try KISS

MOAR MP's does not a better picture make no matter how you slice it or dice it.

Good lens, good sensor, good photog make a better picture.

'tis best to learn a basic concept we're all good at something; me I'm good at taking big things down to little pieces attaching a time line to them then telling folks what needs done. I took the MDMP some education and ran with it, turned it into and MBA and a PgMP. You have that ingrained talent too but Photography and art isn't really it.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> lets try KISS


Something I've always failed at. Science has made the "engineer" response second-nature to me now








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Total unnecessary. I feel bad for all the kids that will play this game. There better be some clear marking on tha package that notfies parents that are basically buying porn for their kids. I'm sure all of you that are married can't wait to play with your wife and daughter!
> 
> There is absolutely no freaking need for it. NONE!


It's clearly marked "M for Mature" on the box and you have to have ID to buy it. It's not Rockstar's fault if parents are so braindead that both of these aren't an indicator to them. It's like taking someone to a Rated R movie (where it's again both clearly marked AND carded) and complaining the movie isn't suitable for children.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> English still horrid. But let me break it down for you:
> 
> * You were originally rude to a friend of mine on here and came from a place of ignorance
> 
> * I reciprocated.
> 
> * You continued being rude to me, still from a place of ignorance
> 
> * You repeatedly made claims that Jason and I said things that we never did, and at times the complete opposite of what I've actually said
> 
> * Now that you're in a corner, you're criticizing me for being rude when you were the original instigator in the first place
> 
> So in short, your stance boils down to:
> "Boo hoo I'm always right and you can't be mean to me!"


Ok buddy you win...pat yourself on the back and have a nice day now.

Oh and to Jason...I don't know you. I wasn't insulting you. I just didn't agree with the MP is a gimmick line. I didn't make it personal...certainly didn't try to. Sorry if it came off that way.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*


and you're still missing the point. it isn't about taking the best picture or improving picture quality. it is about expanding the range of pictures possible with a small portable device, without bringing along something like a massive attachable lense, dslr etc.

range of possible photographs does not=quality of said photographs. understand now?


----------



## GermanyChris

I'm not an engineer thats why I own Mac and Linux boxes plain text and easy to understand. Iget format this into FS that. Calculus on the other hand I brain dumped in 1995


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> and you're still missing the point. it isn't about taking the best picture or improving picture quality. it is about expanding the range of pictures possible with a small portable device, without bringing along something like a massive attachable lense, dslr etc.
> 
> range of possible photographs does not=quality of said photographs. understand now?


Thank you

i siad "function"


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> I'm not an engineer thats why I own Mac and Linux boxes plain text and easy to understand. Iget format this into FS that. Calculus on the other hand I brain dumped in 1995


Just curious and way off topic. Is Jeff buckley still popular in Germany?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jetsam*
> 
> in all honesty, 5c should be at most $450 off contract,
> 
> free with contract.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the trash Motorola phones they released recently. They're way worse than the 5C and just as expensive. $100 for these phones on contract isn't that bad, it's still a very good phone and much better than 99% of all Android sets out there. I don't know why you people keep complaining about price here.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/27/4659876/motorola-droid-ultra-and-droid-maxx-review
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung actually innovates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny that people here actually believe this. You have no credibility whatsoever. Nor a sense of usefulness or design or creativity or soul.
Click to expand...

Samsung has:
- innovated large capacity solid state drives
- mass produced high DPI displays
- built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
- multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
- built the displays for Apple products
- built the ram chips for Apple products
- product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
- standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
- software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
- etc.

Apple has:
- stolen ideas
- asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so

It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.


yeah samsung is a great hardware manufacturer for sure. that doesn't mean they are a great device manufacturer though.

though i would definitely like to see apple implement styluses more in their devices


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Just curious and way off topic. Is Jeff buckley still popular in Germany?


I have no idea who Jeff Buckley is but from his wiki page I wouldn't know who he is no matter. It says he died in '97 and was a folk kinda guy. I've listened to punk since the mid '80's no my genre and not at least from my area of the world (FL/MI/OH)


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> and you're still missing the point. it isn't about taking the best picture or improving picture quality. it is about expanding the range of pictures possible with a small portable device, without bringing along something like a massive attachable lense, dslr etc.
> 
> range of possible photographs does not=quality of said photographs. understand now?


What range would you need to require 41MP at the sacrifice of IQ, esp at low light settings? I get what you're saying and it sounds good on paper, but in actual practice it's still needless.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> But yea, back to the bigger topic: I never understood why people have to be so defensive of their platforms.


The purpose is to support the technology that adds practical improvements over generations. When one platform deludes the consumer, that in turn has good technologies and or investments hindered, it ruins the market for everyone. If Apple was keen on improving the practicality of the devices and innovate, while not attempting to hinder market innovation by patent blocking their competitors over a poorly abused system (in which case Apple has purposely went out of their way to do, the majority of the competitors never really cared and welcomed each other to improve each others' devices), then sure, defending them would be fine. However, it is wrong to restrict the market and delude the consumer; in which case, Apple is in the wrong.

I have no sympathy for those who purposefully do so, knowingly, with a personal agenda to do so, then then cry fowl when it back fires.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I think the word "gimmicky" is overused. I think if something is gimmicky, it appears to have value but is actually useless to pretty much everyone. As opposed to features on a smartphone being useful and useless depending on the person using it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gimmick?s=t

stop trying to reinvent words. The dictionary has been established long before you even existed.


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.


That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.

You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.


----------



## KSIMP88

Cool. Now make a lie detector, someone.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
Click to expand...

What has Apple innovated? That's typically how one would attempt a refute as opposed to making claims that hold no backing.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.


No Glen Beck tends to be more open minded. Domino tends to be good for a laugh though.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> No Glen Beck tends to be more open minded. Domino tends to be good for a laugh though.
Click to expand...

I try... lol

Always providing humour to the ridiculous claims made by the Sheeples...


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> I have no idea who Jeff Buckley is but from his wiki page I wouldn't know who he is no matter. It says he died in '97 and was a folk kinda guy. I've listened to punk since the mid '80's no my genre and not at least from my area of the world (FL/MI/OH)


He was rock. But was more popular overseas than in US. Just curious...thanks


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> I try... lol
> 
> Always providing humour to the ridiculous claims made by the Sheeples...


Who made claims?


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> What range would you need to require 41MP at the sacrifice of IQ, esp at low light settings? I get what you're saying and it sounds good on paper, but in actual practice it's still needless.


As far as I can tell...no sacrifice in low light. I dont see any other camera phone with this ability...best IQ by far even in low light.
http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-lumia-1020-low-light-samples-versus-920-925

Download the full res pics...I'd upload a few...but they are about 11mb a piece


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> What has Apple innovated? That's typically how one would attempt a refute as opposed to making claims that hold no backing.


I'll just keep enjoying my iPhone and iPad, and leave the pointless arguments to you.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> You could turn in that iPad2 for $200 or more at a MS store and grab a Surface


This certainly turned into a brawl of an argument.

Anyhow, I don't care for the Surface. The idea is paramount, but it's execution resulted in devices with very little usable storage. The ones that did have a legitimate amount of storage ended up being priced way over what I would have spent on them. Their detachable 'keyboards' pale in comparison to that of the MacBook or even Lenovo keyboards. To this day, I've found only one laptop with a decent trackpad other than the glass one that Apple uses, and that was one featured on a $1300 Samsung Ultrabook. Still too pricy for me.

I also don't care for Windows 8. It is a _good_ OS, but it's not very user friendly. Once I used it for a couple hours at one point, I came to the conclusion that it was fantastic, but it had a few problems:
-It was usable without a touchscreen, but not enjoyable (IMO)
-After putting it down and switching off between Windows 7 and Mac OS X for a few weeks, I came back to it to realize I didn't really remember how to use. I remembered certain things, but it wasn't second nature like I'd like my OS to be.
-The marketplace is not only still very much empty, but apps that aren't free are expensive.

Microsoft still has a long way to come with the concept, and Windows 8 just feels like a huge beta of what the final product should be.

I will go on a limb to say it, but I'd rather have an iPad that could run OS X, than any Microsoft tab running Windows 8.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
Click to expand...

Could you please say how before refuting the claims?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Apple innovated? That's typically how one would attempt a refute as opposed to making claims that hold no backing.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, Foolsmasher has been known to do this a LOT.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> This certainly turned into a brawl of an argument.
> 
> Anyhow, I don't care for the Surface. The idea is paramount, but it's execution resulted in devices with very little usable storage. The ones that did have a legitimate amount of storage ended up being priced way over what I would have spent on them. Their detachable 'keyboards' pale in comparison to that of the MacBook or even Lenovo keyboards. To this day, I've found only one laptop with a decent trackpad other than the glass one that Apple uses, and that was one featured on a $1300 Samsung Ultrabook. Still too pricy for me.
> 
> I also don't care for Windows 8. It is a _good_ OS, but it's not very user friendly. Once I used it for a couple hours at one point, I came to the conclusion that it was fantastic, but it had a few problems:
> -It was usable without a touchscreen, but not enjoyable (IMO)
> -After putting it down and switching off between Windows 7 and Mac OS X for a few weeks, I came back to it to realize I didn't really remember how to use. I remembered certain things, but it wasn't second nature like I'd like my OS to be.
> -The marketplace is not only still very much empty, but apps that aren't free are expensive.
> 
> Microsoft still has a long way to come with the concept, and Windows 8 just feels like a huge beta of what the final product should be.
> 
> I will go on a limb to say it, but I'd rather have an iPad that could run OS X, than any Microsoft tab running Windows 8.


I had no kiddin pondered a surface pro after one of our OCN members purchased one for Ps use. It really seemed like a good idea to be able to draw right on the surface after a couple weeks he returned it for various reasons. The surface has a place in the market I just don't think MS is hitting it yet Surface pro=MBA surface RT=iPad.. They need to talk about how the surface integrates with other Windows stuff . If you compare to the iPad you're going to loose. But I'm drunk so I really dunno what I'm taking about


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you please say how before refuting the claims?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That view is so one-sided and warped, truly breathtaking.
> 
> You're like the Glen Beck of OCN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What has Apple innovated? That's typically how one would attempt a refute as opposed to making claims that hold no backing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just FYI, Foolsmasher has been known to do this a LOT.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> What has Apple innovated? That's typically how one would attempt a refute as opposed to making claims that hold no backing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll just keep enjoying my iPhone and iPad, and leave the pointless arguments to you.
Click to expand...

I can see... lol

Cheers!


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> This certainly turned into a brawl of an argument.
> 
> Anyhow, I don't care for the Surface. The idea is paramount, but it's execution resulted in devices with very little usable storage. The ones that did have a legitimate amount of storage ended up being priced way over what I would have spent on them. Their detachable 'keyboards' pale in comparison to that of the MacBook or even Lenovo keyboards. To this day, I've found only one laptop with a decent trackpad other than the glass one that Apple uses, and that was one featured on a $1300 Samsung Ultrabook. Still too pricy for me.
> 
> I also don't care for Windows 8. It is a _good_ OS, but it's not very user friendly. Once I used it for a couple hours at one point, I came to the conclusion that it was fantastic, but it had a few problems:
> -It was usable without a touchscreen, but not enjoyable (IMO)
> -After putting it down and switching off between Windows 7 and Mac OS X for a few weeks, I came back to it to realize I didn't really remember how to use. I remembered certain things, but it wasn't second nature like I'd like my OS to be.
> -The marketplace is not only still very much empty, but apps that aren't free are expensive.
> 
> Microsoft still has a long way to come with the concept, and Windows 8 just feels like a huge beta of what the final product should be.
> 
> I will go on a limb to say it, but I'd rather have an iPad that could run OS X, than any Microsoft tab running Windows 8.
> 
> 
> 
> I had no kiddin pondered a surface pro after one of our OCN members purchased one for Ps use. It really seemed like a good idea to be able to draw right on the surface after a couple weeks he returned it for various reasons. The surface has a place in the market I just don't think MS is hitting it yet Surface pro=MBA surface RT=iPad.. They need to talk about how the surface integrates with other Windows stuff . If you compare to the iPad you're going to loose. *But I'm drunk so I really dunno what I'm taking abou*t
Click to expand...

Explains a lot. The Surface Pro does not compete with the MBA as they aren't even remotely the same in functionality. Althought, the Surface Pro can do what the MBA was designed for while offering much more. But hey, you're drunk.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Explains a lot. The Surface Pro does not compete with the MBA as they aren't even remotely the same in functionality. Althought, the Surface Pro can do what the MBA was designed for while offering much more. But hey, you're drunk.


Right I forgot it's not a tablet running an Ultra low voltage CPU with flash storage which would make it comparable to the almost computer running the same ..My Bad..Any other foolish comments you'd like top make?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Explains a lot. The Surface Pro does not compete with the MBA as they aren't even remotely the same in functionality. Althought, the Surface Pro can do what the MBA was designed for while offering much more. But hey, you're drunk.
> 
> 
> 
> Right I forgot it's not a tablet running an Ultra low voltage CPU with flash storage which would make it comparable to the almost computer running the same ..My Bad..Any other foolish comments you'd like top make?
Click to expand...

You must be confused. The MBA is a ultra-light laptop, with a display embedded with a keyboard, with all computational components embedded into the keyboard, doesn't have a touch display, let alone, multi-touch, nor supports a wacom touch display.

It's okay; alcohol does this to people when they've drank too much. It's understandable.


----------



## GermanyChris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You must be confused. The MBA is a ultra-light laptop, with a display embedded with a keyboard, with all computational components embedded into the keyboard, doesn't have a touch display, let alone, multi-touch, nor supports a wacom touch display.
> 
> It's okay; alcohol does this to people when they've drank too much. It's understandable.


And the Surface pro while labeled as an ultralight PC capable of doing the all the things a PC can do especially coupled with a keyboard but it cannot, but It's OK the Windows love and Apple hate has gone to your brain and that makes you the laughing stock of where ever you post..but keep on keeping on


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You must be confused. The MBA is a ultra-light laptop, with a display embedded with a keyboard, with all computational components embedded into the keyboard, doesn't have a touch display, let alone, multi-touch, nor supports a wacom touch display.
> 
> It's okay; alcohol does this to people when they've drank too much. It's understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Surface pro while labeled as an ultralight PC capable of doing the all the things a PC can do especially coupled with a keyboard cannot, but It's OK the Windows love and Apple hate has gone to your brain and that makes you the laughing stock of where ever you post..but keep on keeping on
Click to expand...

It can though: whether it might be inconvenient in some situations is *another thing completely.*


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Could you please say how before refuting the claims?
> Just FYI, Foolsmasher has been known to do this a LOT.


ipod

iphone

ipad

iTunes Store

All Apple innovations that have shaped the way we consume media, share information, etc. I'm guessing you've heard of those.


----------



## GermanyChris

I thought it'd be neat to run the full version of Ps and be able to draw on the surface of the tablet instead of on the Wacom but it killed battery life. There is no such Apple product that can do the same at ~1000 if it can replace both the computer and the tablet it makes it a screaming deal.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Could you please say how before refuting the claims?
> Just FYI, Foolsmasher has been known to do this a LOT.
> 
> 
> 
> ipod
> 
> iphone
> 
> ipad
> 
> iTunes Store
> 
> All Apple innovations that have shaped the way we consume media, share information, etc. I'm guessing you've heard of those.
Click to expand...

"shaped the way we consume media".

There's a difference between inventing and popularizing.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GermanyChris*
> 
> I had no kiddin pondered a surface pro after one of our OCN members purchased one for Ps use. It really seemed like a good idea to be able to draw right on the surface after a couple weeks he returned it for various reasons. The surface has a place in the market I just don't think MS is hitting it yet Surface pro=MBA surface RT=iPad.. They need to talk about how the surface integrates with other Windows stuff . If you compare to the iPad you're going to loose. But I'm drunk so I really dunno what I'm taking about


I'm just saying, I'd rather have a Surface-like iPad than a Surface-like Surface lol. I'm confident in Microsoft, but I don't think their first versions of the Surface are as polished as they should be just yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Explains a lot. The Surface Pro does not compete with the MBA as they aren't even remotely the same in functionality. Althought, the Surface Pro can do what the MBA was designed for while offering much more. But hey, you're drunk.


Just curious, as I'm not looking for a debate, but besides touch capabilities, what does the Surface offer that's 'much more' than the MBA? I'd honestly rather keep iOS and OS X in their separate markets. I like OS X as a laptop/desktop OS and iOS as a phone/tablet OS. I'm personally excited for iOS 7.

I do think Apple would be good at implementing a touch OS into their MacBook lines, though.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Samsung has:
> - innovated large capacity solid state drives
> - mass produced high DPI displays
> - built and engineered on existing display technologies to be modernized and competitive
> - multi-SoC platforms for power conservation in the phone market
> - built the displays for Apple products
> - built the ram chips for Apple products
> - product engineered cost effective technologies/methodologies to improve SSD, RAM, etc., on a more affordable and mass productive state
> - standardised multiple software implementations and wacom support for phablets and small tablets
> - software implementations for productivity with the stylus support, etc.
> - etc.
> 
> Apple has:
> - stolen ideas
> - asked others to produce their ideas for them as they were incompetent to do so
> 
> It's funny because you have no credibility what-so-ever. Stop talking out of your arse.


That is literally the worst list supporting Samsung I've ever seen. The only legit one is SSDs. Good try though. If you were right on any level, Samsung wouldn't have miserably lost the court battle against Apple. I'm sorry you can't see past you're love for Samsung but it's no secret they deliberately rip off their competition.


----------



## 3930K

^ Oh so you think Lucy Koh is not biased?


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> ^ Oh so you think Lucy Koh is not biased?


Samsung was found guilty, whether you like it or not. The evidence clearly showed slavish copying. No need to claim the judge was biased or the jury was bought, or whatever other bogus rationale you guys like to come up with.


----------



## frankietown

this is all incorrect. EVERY COMPANY has ripped off ideas since the beginning.

did microsoft invent the operating system? no.
did apple invent the touch screen phone? no.
did sony/nintendo/microsoft invent the gaming systems? no.
did every tv manufacturer invent tvs?! no.
did every phone manufacturer invent phones? no.
did facebook invent social media? no..

there's only a handful of companies that STARTED something from the beginning. the one that comes to mind is intel, should we not let AMD make processors then now?

this is all crazy talk. companies all take ideas from each other and then innovate them. the lucky companies are the ones that get to do it first. remember how big blackberry was especially with corporate messaging and how integrated they were in big businesses? NO ONE wanted to switch to ios. no one even wanted to switch to android. but given enough time, people are able to make choices on the products that they want based on what they like. look where blackberry is now and how much the market shifted. competition breeds innovation, but to cry about stealing ideas is stupid.

to say that one company is better and the other stole it is just too naive. steve jobs and bill gates have been stealing ideas from everyone for so long. they were just the best at it hence why their companies are ones of the most successful.

p.s. just be glad there is variety in what we can purchase now. no one is force feeding us one tech or the other. i like my samsung galaxy s4 because well i like it. some people like it metal based like iphone, well thats for them. but me and my friends? we are all happy with our purchases.


----------



## SynchronicBoost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frankietown*
> 
> this is all incorrect. EVERY COMPANY has ripped off ideas since the beginning.
> 
> did microsoft invent the operating system? no.
> did apple invent the touch screen phone? no.
> did sony/nintendo/microsoft invent the gaming systems? no.
> did every tv manufacturer invent tvs?! no.
> did every phone manufacturer invent phones? no.
> did facebook invent social media? no..
> 
> there's only a handful of companies that STARTED something from the beginning. the one that comes to mind is intel, should we not let AMD make processors then now?
> 
> this is all crazy talk. companies all take ideas from each other and then innovate them. the lucky companies are the ones that get to do it first. remember how big blackberry was especially with corporate messaging and how integrated they were in big businesses? NO ONE wanted to switch to ios. no one even wanted to switch to android. but given enough time, people are able to make choices on the products that they want based on what they like. look where blackberry is now and how much the market shifted. competition breeds innovation, but to cry about stealing ideas is stupid.
> 
> to say that one company is better and the other stole it is just too naive. steve jobs and bill gates have been stealing ideas from everyone for so long. they were just the best at it hence why their companies are ones of the most successful.
> 
> p.s. just be glad there is variety in what we can purchase now. no one is force feeding us one tech or the other. i like my samsung galaxy s4 because well i like it. some people like it metal based like iphone, well thats for them. but me and my friends? we are all happy with our purchases.


Innovation in America is by design. This is why the patent system is here, not to protect companies, but to disclose their innovation for the world to learn and refine, and in exchange, they get 20 years of protection of those very narrow disclosures. 20 years goes by quickly, there are countless patents waiting to expire, eg pharmaceuticals. It isn't stealing ideas, it is sharing, in the hope that someone else can make it better. Have an idea? Google.com/patents and you will quickly learn how it is not unique. But you will also learn how to refine your ideas until it is more innovative. Embrace it people, this is what breeds the likes of the lightbulb, the Internet, and Google.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Far from it. They might use longs more, but the bulk of it will be optimizing bad code.


Huh? I was agreeing with you that the performance increase comes mostly from optimising for 64-bit -- whether that involves rewriting code or culling obsolete code.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Far from it. They might use longs more, but the bulk of it will be optimizing bad code.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? I was agreeing with you that the performance increase comes mostly from optimising for 64-bit -- whether that involves rewriting code or culling obsolete code.
Click to expand...

Oh, fair enough.


----------



## scorpionvenom

No 802.11ac in new iPhone 5s ? very odd as new router has it and new macbook air has it


----------



## HellAce

Iphones are for ignorant hipsters who dont know anything about phone specifications and or self proclaimed "tech geeks" who praise them for their quality and reliability.

Even a Blackberry Storm can rival the Iphone 5s in terms of specs...........because the truth is they are not even "innovating" anymore. *cough cough* if they ever did in the first place *cough*









Dont even get me started on how much better the Galaxy phones are and the HTC one.


----------



## scorpionvenom

So i have an iphone and that makes me ignorant and dont know what i am talking about ?


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> So i have an iphone and that makes me ignorant and dont know what i am talking about ?


yeah obviously. i mean you'd have to be stupid to think that quality and reliability are more important in a phone than having an octocore. you think a dual core can handle angry birds? please


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> So i have an iphone and that makes me ignorant and dont know what i am talking about ?


No, it means that you and the hundreds of millions of other people that own one are ignorant. /s


----------



## pez

I've never met a Blackberry Storm that was actually pleasant to use, though.

It's a little tiring to see similar statements made. Whether you like the phone or not, it works. Plain and simple. It makes phone calls, plays popular apps, sends text messages, browses the internet. All of that it can do quickly. Whether it's the quickest, that may be up for grabs, but people put blanket statements out there like if they were to pickup one it would have the reliability of German cars electrical system.


----------



## scorpionvenom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> yeah obviously. i mean you'd have to be stupid to think that quality and reliability are more important in a phone than having an octocore. you think a dual core can handle angry birds? please


Sorry pal i aint stupid when it comes to knowing about tech for me iPhone it just works app store has it all it's build very well never crashes its secure is android secure ? and ,im not an apple fanboy i just like the iPhone but just cause i own an iPhone doesn't mean i am stupid and don't know what i am talking about that's a stupid comment to make


----------



## Biscuits_N_Gravy

This is all I see when reading this thread:



IT'S A PHONE. Same for all the other Smart Phones.

A phone does not define you or your intelligence.

If you like it, that's all that matters.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> Sorry pal i aint stupid when it comes to knowing about tech for me iPhone it just works app store has it all it's build very well never crashes its secure is android secure ? and ,im not an apple fanboy i just like the iPhone but just cause i own an iPhone doesn't mean i am stupid and don't know what i am talking about that's a stupid comment to make


i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you 100%. android fans like to talk about benchmarks, but ios outperforms them where it counts. ie superior screens, superior sound quality, better gpu performance for mobile gaming, actual proper os support, effective immunity to viruses etc. android fans have more options in terms of screen size true, but that seems to be all they really have.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> No 802.11ac in new iPhone 5s ? very odd as new router has it and new macbook air has it


True... I was surprised. Maybe it consumes more power?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellAce*
> 
> Iphones are for ignorant hipsters who dont know anything about phone specifications and or self proclaimed "tech geeks" who praise them for their quality and reliability.
> 
> Even a Blackberry Storm can rival the Iphone 5s in terms of specs...........because the truth is they are not even "innovating" anymore. *cough cough* if they ever did in the first place *cough*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont even get me started on how much better the Galaxy phones are and the HTC one.


Who cares if they're innovating or not? They keep putting out better products each year. The 5 has a very powerful GPU and a pretty decent CPU -- and now the 5S is twice as powerful. How can this be viewed as a negative? It's only what other smartphone manufacturers do.


----------



## tubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That's it. The 64-bit processor allows them to rewrite the OS and stock apps to utilize it, which is where the real speed improvements come from.
> 
> Never. But once it's out iFixIt will tear it down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And benchmark sites will run benchmarks for exact performance.
> 
> I'd say this though: I don't think it's the PowerVR 600 series, because no one has found 600 series drivers during the iOS 7 Beta.


Thanks again!


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you 100%. android fans like to talk about benchmarks, but ios outperforms them where it counts. ie superior screens, superior sound quality, better gpu performance for mobile gaming, actual proper os support, effective immunity to viruses etc. android fans have more options in terms of screen size true, but that seems to be all they really have.


A wider variety of hardware. A wider variety of customizations. A wider variety of price ranges.

I will say Apple benefits from producing basically 1 phone. Sure they have to support older phones...but that support is built up when they are current.
Google has a great variety of hardware choices, but that means you never know if they will be supported, even if the Manufacturer says they will...cough* Motorola!
MS has a few different manufactures but they are held to standards that create consistency across them. So most of their phones are supported well.

speaking of innovation, I still haven't seen phones that can record audio as well as Nokias! Lumia 920 and 1020 have the same mics and the balance has been improved...but you get the picture.




and you still can't use an iPhone with gloves unless you make some contraption or something.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellAce*
> 
> Even a Blackberry Storm can rival the Iphone 5s in terms of specs


And? When any new flagship device can run anything perfectly fine (And a 2 year old devices stands a fair chance of doing that) I think specs don't really matter much at all...An i7 is faster than an Atom but you'll be hard pressed to see that if you're just entering text into notepad.


----------



## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellAce*
> 
> Iphones are for ignorant hipsters who dont know anything about phone specifications and or self proclaimed "tech geeks" who praise them for their quality and reliability.
> 
> Even a Blackberry Storm can rival the Iphone 5s in terms of specs...........because the truth is they are not even "innovating" anymore. *cough cough* if they ever did in the first place *cough*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont even get me started on how much better the Galaxy phones are and the HTC one.


It's fairly ironic how many people criticize Apple fans for being hipsters (or in this case, "self proclaimed tech geeks" as well) all while joining the most recent bandwagon, which right now is praising whatever the top Android flavors of the month are at the time and discrediting iPhones and anyone who'd use them. They're pretty much the same type of person, just on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Edit: By the way, that's not to say that any Apple or Android fan is like this, but clearly there is a difference between sharing your opinions and acting like a diehard sports fan where your phone manufacturer(s) of choice is the home team.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> And? When any new flagship device can run anything perfectly fine (And a 2 year old devices stands a fair chance of doing that) I think specs don't really matter much at all...An i7 is faster than an Atom but you'll be hard pressed to see that if you're just entering text into notepad.


Plus the New iPhone should have more single thread power then any android phone.
Most Phone Apps do not thread well at all, I would Take two powerful cores over 4 weak cores any day.

iOS might be a smooth operating OS, but so is windows phone. iOS still is crap when it comes to usability and overall features. The wall of apps is much duller then MS's Titled home screen IMO.
Though just because android will sometimes drop a frame when swiping through home pages doesn't make it feel anyless slower then a iPhone. App Performance is better on Android, especially when you have bunch of things open.

iOS is geared for people that have trouble understanding on how to use a smart phone, it is extremely a more basic OS. Though even after they upgraded iOS 7 with tech stolen from others it still is just a joke of a OS compared with JellyBean.

iOS may have been better pre ICS, but after ICS Android is just a golden Phone OS.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you 100%. android fans like to talk about benchmarks, but ios outperforms them where it counts. ie superior screens, superior sound quality, better gpu performance for mobile gaming, actual proper os support, effective immunity to viruses etc. android fans have more options in terms of screen size true, but that seems to be all they really have.


One thing I like about the iPhone as well is that you can always expect a certain standard of audio quality, which is one of the things I look for in a phone. The Galaxy S3 sounded good, the GNex was decent, but I would always run into problems that would negatively affect my experience. The Spotify app for the S3 wouldn't buffer well, so switching between WiFi (on campus) or between 3G and LTE was always translated into the music constantly buffering. With the GNex, it had a nasty problem with audio clipping, as well as the same plague as the S3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> A wider variety of hardware. A wider variety of customizations. A wider variety of price ranges.
> 
> I will say Apple benefits from producing basically 1 phone. Sure they have to support older phones...but that support is built up when they are current.
> Google has a great variety of hardware choices, but that means you never know if they will be supported, even if the Manufacturer says they will...cough* Motorola!
> MS has a few different manufactures but they are held to standards that create consistency across them. So most of their phones are supported well.
> 
> speaking of innovation, I still haven't seen phones that can record audio as well as Nokias! Lumia 920 and 1020 have the same mics and the balance has been improved...but you get the picture.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you still can't use an iPhone with gloves unless you make some contraption or something.


God, that S3 did terrible.

The iPhone 4 I had didn't do great at audio with video, but my 5 actually did really amazing at the concert I just went to. I'm comparing to the same venue and in nearly the same spot, so that's as close to scientific as I can get, but it was much, much closer to the Nokia in that video than the Samsung. No distortion at all, but not nearly as clear as that Nokia. The video quality turned out really great on that Nokia.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> One thing I like about the iPhone as well is that you can always expect a certain standard of audio quality, which is one of the things I look for in a phone. The Galaxy S3 sounded good, the GNex was decent, but I would always run into problems that would negatively affect my experience. The Spotify app for the S3 wouldn't buffer well, so switching between WiFi (on campus) or between 3G and LTE was always translated into the music constantly buffering. With the GNex, it had a nasty problem with audio clipping, as well as the same plague as the S3.
> God, that S3 did terrible.
> 
> The iPhone 4 I had didn't do great at audio with video, but my 5 actually did really amazing at the concert I just went to. I'm comparing to the same venue and in nearly the same spot, so that's as close to scientific as I can get, but it was much, much closer to the Nokia in that video than the Samsung. No distortion at all, but not nearly as clear as that Nokia. The video quality turned out really great on that Nokia.


I looked up some videos for the iPhone 5...actually pretty impressive. Mics have come along way. Nokias are stereo recording and not Mono too. When I had a 3GS I was impressed by how many apps there were for music makers. I almost bought a Mikey condenser mic to plug into it so I could multi track some guitar work on the fly. But never really got to it. Now I use my L920 to record at live jams that I play at or other gigs so I can review how bad I played


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tubers*
> 
> Thanks again!


You're welcome =)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Plus the New iPhone should have more single thread power then any android phone.
> Most Phone Apps do not thread well at all, I would Take two powerful cores over 4 weak cores any day.
> 
> iOS might be a smooth operating OS, but so is windows phone. iOS still is crap when it comes to usability and overall features. The wall of apps is much duller then MS's Titled home screen IMO.
> Though just because android will sometimes drop a frame when swiping through home pages doesn't make it feel anyless slower then a iPhone. App Performance is better on Android, especially when you have bunch of things open.
> 
> iOS is geared for people that have trouble understanding on how to use a smart phone, it is extremely a more basic OS. Though even after they upgraded iOS 7 with tech stolen from others it still is just a joke of a OS compared with JellyBean.
> 
> iOS may have been better pre ICS, but after ICS Android is just a golden Phone OS.


I'm not sure that it will have more single threaded performance than any Android smartphone (the Cortex A15 is quite powerful) but I think it should be somewhat close whilst having better performance per watt.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> Sorry pal i aint stupid when it comes to knowing about tech for me iPhone it just works app store has it all it's build very well never crashes its secure is android secure ? and ,im not an apple fanboy i just like the iPhone but just cause i own an iPhone doesn't mean i am stupid and don't know what i am talking about that's a stupid comment to make
> 
> 
> 
> i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you 100%. android fans like to talk about benchmarks, but ios outperforms them where it counts. ie superior screens, superior sound quality, better gpu performance for mobile gaming, actual proper os support, effective immunity to viruses etc. android fans have more options in terms of screen size true, but that seems to be all they really have.
Click to expand...

Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tubers*
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome =)
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Plus the New iPhone should have more single thread power then any android phone.
> 
> Most Phone Apps do not thread well at all, I would Take two powerful cores over 4 weak cores any day.
> 
> iOS might be a smooth operating OS, but so is windows phone. iOS still is crap when it comes to usability and overall features. The wall of apps is much duller then MS's Titled home screen IMO.
> 
> Though just because android will sometimes drop a frame when swiping through home pages doesn't make it feel anyless slower then a iPhone. App Performance is better on Android, especially when you have bunch of things open.
> 
> iOS is geared for people that have trouble understanding on how to use a smart phone, it is extremely a more basic OS. Though even after they upgraded iOS 7 with tech stolen from others it still is just a joke of a OS compared with JellyBean.
> 
> iOS may have been better pre ICS, but after ICS Android is just a golden Phone OS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not sure that it will have more single threaded performance than any Android smartphone (the Cortex A15 is quite powerful) but I think it should be somewhat close whilst having better performance per watt.
Click to expand...

Why the better p/W?


----------



## Stefy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> i was being sarcastic. i actually agree with you 100%. android fans like to talk about benchmarks, but ios outperforms them where it counts. ie superior screens, superior sound quality, better gpu performance for mobile gaming, actual proper os support, effective immunity to viruses etc. android fans have more options in terms of screen size true, but that seems to be all they really have.
> 
> 
> 
> A wider variety of hardware. A wider variety of customizations. A wider variety of price ranges.
> 
> I will say Apple benefits from producing basically 1 phone. Sure they have to support older phones...but that support is built up when they are current.
> Google has a great variety of hardware choices, but that means you never know if they will be supported, even if the Manufacturer says they will...cough* Motorola!
> MS has a few different manufactures but they are held to standards that create consistency across them. So most of their phones are supported well.
> 
> speaking of innovation, I still haven't seen phones that can record audio as well as Nokias! Lumia 920 and 1020 have the same mics and the balance has been improved...but you get the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you still can't use an iPhone with gloves unless you make some contraption or something.
Click to expand...

HTC One actually could do the same as the Nokia here, but they had to stop using those microphones because STM had an exclusive deal with Nokia. So if you got an early build of the HTC One, chances are you'll have the HDR mic. No idea how the new mic in HTC One compares to the original one.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
> Why the better p/W?


The 3DMark score takes into account the CPU as well, does it not? The Adreno 330 is powerful, but from memory it's only a bit better than the SGX554MP4 -- though correct me if I'm wrong.

Malware is quite limited on iOS without an exploit to allow it free reign.

Firstly, to be clear... it's my expectation not necessarily fact. Secondly, because Apple placed a strong focus on aggressive power management with Swift. I read a great detail about Cortex A15 vs Swift from Anandtech, it's quite interesting stuff.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
> 
> Why the better p/W?
> 
> 
> 
> The 3DMark score takes into account the CPU as well, does it not? The Adreno 330 is powerful, but from memory it's only a bit better than the SGX554MP4 -- though correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Malware is quite limited on iOS without an exploit to allow it free reign.
> 
> Firstly, to be clear... it's my expectation not necessarily fact. Secondly, because Apple placed a strong focus on aggressive power management with Swift. I read a great detail about Cortex A15 vs Swift from Anandtech, it's quite interesting stuff.
Click to expand...

Sure, but if you look at the in-depth's FPS you will see it is one quarter of the top SGS4's score.

Fair enough.

That could be good or bad... but it proves your point.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> A wider variety of hardware. A wider variety of customizations. A wider variety of price ranges.
> 
> I will say Apple benefits from producing basically 1 phone. Sure they have to support older phones...but that support is built up when they are current.
> Google has a great variety of hardware choices, but that means you never know if they will be supported, even if the Manufacturer says they will...cough* Motorola!
> MS has a few different manufactures but they are held to standards that create consistency across them. So most of their phones are supported well.
> 
> speaking of innovation, I still haven't seen phones that can record audio as well as Nokias! Lumia 920 and 1020 have the same mics and the balance has been improved...but you get the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you still can't use an iPhone with gloves unless you make some contraption or something.






The HTC One is/was Nokia level.

Granted, that's because it uses/used the same microphone as the Lumia's...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Plus the New iPhone should have more single thread power then any android phone.
> Most Phone Apps do not thread well at all, I would Take two powerful cores over 4 weak cores any day.
> 
> iOS might be a smooth operating OS, but so is windows phone. iOS still is crap when it comes to usability and overall features. The wall of apps is much duller then MS's Titled home screen IMO.
> Though just because android will sometimes drop a frame when swiping through home pages doesn't make it feel anyless slower then a iPhone. App Performance is better on Android, especially when you have bunch of things open.
> 
> iOS is geared for people that have trouble understanding on how to use a smart phone, it is extremely a more basic OS. Though even after they upgraded iOS 7 with tech stolen from others it still is just a joke of a OS compared with JellyBean.
> 
> iOS may have been better pre ICS, but after ICS Android is just a golden Phone OS.


I'm well known for pointing out that the difference in single-threaded stuff matters very little on the desktop here...It matters even less on mobile, what would you do that actually shows a difference between two mobile CPUs? Everything I've seen is either GPU, storage or user limited. I don't give a crap about anything but storage performance these days simply because it doesn't make any difference...Hell, I was underclocking my SGS2 to save on battery as I wasn't noticing any performance difference, and that was a dual core A9 let alone the A15 or Krait...


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Sure, but if you look at the in-depth's FPS you will see it is one quarter of the top SGS4's score.
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> That could be good or bad... but it proves your point.


Here's a better comparison: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7082/snapdragon-800-msm8974-performance-preview-qualcomm-mobile-development-tablet/4

But yes, it seems you're correct -- the 5 is substantially slower here (6 FPS vs 26.) When normalised for screen resolution, the 5 is just a bit over half (14 FPS.)


----------



## HellAce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stefy*
> 
> Several sites have picked HTC One as the best 2013 smartphone. Honestly, it is way more innovative than S4 which really was just a slight improvement of the S3. HTC One is a completely new and different phone. You have to be a fanboy to come out with a statement like that. Both HTC One and S4 are great phones.
> HTC One actually could do the same as the Nokia here, but they had to stop using those microphones because STM had an exclusive deal with Nokia. So if you got an early build of the HTC One, chances are you'll have the HDR mic. No idea how the new mic in HTC One compares to the original one.


Dude i dont think you read what i was saying correctly............please reread it. I was actually complimenting the HTC one and Galaxy. Not bashing them.


----------



## Stefy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellAce*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stefy*
> 
> Several sites have picked HTC One as the best 2013 smartphone. Honestly, it is way more innovative than S4 which really was just a slight improvement of the S3. HTC One is a completely new and different phone. You have to be a fanboy to come out with a statement like that. Both HTC One and S4 are great phones.
> HTC One actually could do the same as the Nokia here, but they had to stop using those microphones because STM had an exclusive deal with Nokia. So if you got an early build of the HTC One, chances are you'll have the HDR mic. No idea how the new mic in HTC One compares to the original one.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude i dont think you read what i was saying correctly............please reread it. I was actually complimenting the HTC one and Galaxy. Not bashing them.
Click to expand...

My bad bud! Deleted it


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Plus the New iPhone should have more single thread power then any android phone.
> Most Phone Apps do not thread well at all, I would Take two powerful cores over 4 weak cores any day.
> 
> iOS might be a smooth operating OS, but so is windows phone. iOS still is crap when it comes to usability and overall features. The wall of apps is much duller then MS's Titled home screen IMO.
> Though just because android will sometimes drop a frame when swiping through home pages doesn't make it feel anyless slower then a iPhone. App Performance is better on Android, especially when you have bunch of things open.
> 
> iOS is geared for people that have trouble understanding on how to use a smart phone, it is extremely a more basic OS. Though even after they upgraded iOS 7 with tech stolen from others it still is just a joke of a OS compared with JellyBean.
> 
> iOS may have been better pre ICS, but after ICS Android is just a golden Phone OS.


I'm curious...what features are missing on ios that makes it crap?

Why do I want my smartphone to be super complicated when all I'm doing is texting, calling, using apps, etc? Why would anyone want an OS to be overly complicated? In terms of usability, I'm not sure how anyone could say its crap? I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but complicated is out...simple is in.

And app performance is not better on android when you have multiple apps open. That's completely counterintuitive and nonsensical given the way android handles multitasking.

Comparing Android to iOS is kinda silly in my opinion, given how demonstrably insecure Android is, how few people actually get updates, and how fragmented the entire ecosystem is. Hundreds of different makes, models, and screen sizes of phones and tablets, and you honestly think its better than an OS that's geared towards a handful of very specific devices? Because it doesn't have widgets? Lol, it's common sense is all.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> I'm curious...what features are missing on ios that makes it crap?
> 
> Why do I want my smartphone to be super complicated when all I'm doing is texting, calling, using apps, etc? Why would anyone want an OS to be overly complicated? In terms of usability, I'm not sure how anyone could say its crap? I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but complicated is out...simple is in.
> 
> And app performance is not better on android when you have multiple apps open. That's completely counterintuitive and nonsensical given the way android handles multitasking.
> 
> Comparing Android to iOS is kinda silly in my opinion, given how demonstrably insecure Android is, how few people actually get updates, and how fragmented the entire ecosystem is. Hundreds of different makes, models, and screen sizes of phones and tablets, and you honestly think its better than an OS that's geared towards a handful of very specific devices? Because it doesn't have widgets? Lol, it's common sense is all.


This.


----------



## pat031

I owned an iphone 3 and 4. Now i'm with android.
I will never go back to this ****y phone.

It looks ugly
Small screen
Tie to this bad itune
etc ...


----------



## Seanage

apple is getting passed up... and why keep comparing stats to their original phone made like 5+ years ago. I'm willing to bet the ford focus is roughly 40x more efficient (among other aspecs) than the model T. Don't think we are still using the model T as reference now are we?


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seanage*
> 
> ... and why keep comparing stats to their original phone made like 5+ years ago.


To show progress? Just like every other company does.

The Apple hate is strong in this one.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I looked up some videos for the iPhone 5...actually pretty impressive. Mics have come along way. Nokias are stereo recording and not Mono too. When I had a 3GS I was impressed by how many apps there were for music makers. I almost bought a Mikey condenser mic to plug into it so I could multi track some guitar work on the fly. But never really got to it. Now I use my L920 to record at live jams that I play at or other gigs so I can review how bad I played


I picked up one of those 'guitar-to-iPad/iPhone' cables a while back and haven't really used it a bunch, but it's awesome for convenience. I don't play enough to really keep my huge amp around, so I'm going to try and get rid of it fairly soon and just keep my guitar and bass...and the cable. And it'll save me about 4-6 sq ft of space







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
> Why the better p/W?


To be fair, I think he might have been speaking of headphone out quality. I'm not picky about speakers on a phone or tablet (though the front-facing stereo speakers on the Nexus 10 are very nice) but more so about headphone out quality. Android phone manufacturers still can't seem to master that one.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I looked up some videos for the iPhone 5...actually pretty impressive. Mics have come along way. Nokias are stereo recording and not Mono too. When I had a 3GS I was impressed by how many apps there were for music makers. I almost bought a Mikey condenser mic to plug into it so I could multi track some guitar work on the fly. But never really got to it. Now I use my L920 to record at live jams that I play at or other gigs so I can review how bad I played
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up one of those 'guitar-to-iPad/iPhone' cables a while back and haven't really used it a bunch, but it's awesome for convenience. I don't play enough to really keep my huge amp around, so I'm going to try and get rid of it fairly soon and just keep my guitar and bass...and the cable. And it'll save me about 4-6 sq ft of space
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
> Why the better p/W?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be fair, I think he might have been speaking of headphone out quality. I'm not picky about speakers on a phone or tablet (though the front-facing stereo speakers on the Nexus 10 are very nice) but more so about headphone out quality. Android phone manufacturers still can't seem to master that one.
Click to expand...

Maybe, I dunno. Can you play .flacs on iOS devices now though?


----------



## Gigatel

Natively, no, but there's all kinds of apps for that.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I looked up some videos for the iPhone 5...actually pretty impressive. Mics have come along way. Nokias are stereo recording and not Mono too. When I had a 3GS I was impressed by how many apps there were for music makers. I almost bought a Mikey condenser mic to plug into it so I could multi track some guitar work on the fly. But never really got to it. Now I use my L920 to record at live jams that I play at or other gigs so I can review how bad I played
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up one of those 'guitar-to-iPad/iPhone' cables a while back and haven't really used it a bunch, but it's awesome for convenience. I don't play enough to really keep my huge amp around, so I'm going to try and get rid of it fairly soon and just keep my guitar and bass...and the cable. And it'll save me about 4-6 sq ft of space
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Superior screens? Superior sound quality without stereo speakers? Better GPU? Doubling the perf won't get you nowhere near the top on 3DMark. That one's up to the user. Virus immunity?
> Why the better p/W?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be fair, I think he might have been speaking of headphone out quality. I'm not picky about speakers on a phone or tablet (though the front-facing stereo speakers on the Nexus 10 are very nice) but more so about headphone out quality. Android phone manufacturers still can't seem to master that one.
Click to expand...

Android headset manufacturers have already mastered, if anything, done better then apple. Giving the support of a decent grade opamp on the HTC One is one example. The iPhone5 won't be able to properly drive my ER-4S.

Samsung, since the S3 and S1, has already given equal sound quality. Frankly, when FLAC is not supported on the iPhone, there is no point in making an argument in stating 'superior' sound quality when it doesn't have the capabilities of even performing so. Apple doesn't cater to professionals, they cater to the disorientated mass. Enjoy ALC through a USB out to an AMP while my HTC One can surpass it on the spot.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Android headset manufacturers have already mastered, if anything, done better then apple. Giving the support of a decent grade opamp on the HTC One is one example. The iPhone5 won't be able to properly drive my ER-4S.
> 
> Samsung, since the S3 and S1, has already given equal sound quality. Frankly, when FLAC is not supported on the iPhone, there is no point in making an argument in stating 'superior' sound quality when it doesn't have the capabilities of even performing so. Apple doesn't cater to professionals, they cater to the disorientated mass. Enjoy ALC through a USB out to an AMP while my HTC One can surpass it on the stop.


My iPhone can properly drive my Shure E500s, I'm sure any phone will have no problem pushing your little ER-4S. You have no idea what you're talking about, just mindlessly bashing as usual.

Flac is just a format pseudo audiophiles like you like to throw out there. But let me guess, iPhone users don't care about sound either? Somehow the failing HTC and Samsung suddenly cater to professionals? How delusional are you?

Enjoy that's Beats audio, lol. Sounds like you we're suckered into marketing. Love that bass


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Android headset manufacturers have already mastered, if anything, done better then apple. Giving the support of a decent grade opamp on the HTC One is one example. The iPhone5 won't be able to properly drive my ER-4S.
> 
> Samsung, since the S3 and S1, has already given equal sound quality. Frankly, when FLAC is not supported on the iPhone, there is no point in making an argument in stating 'superior' sound quality when it doesn't have the capabilities of even performing so. Apple doesn't cater to professionals, they cater to the disorientated mass. Enjoy ALC through a USB out to an AMP while my HTC One can surpass it on the stop.
> 
> 
> 
> My iPhone can properly drive my Shure E500s, I'm sure any phone will have no problem pushing your little ER-4S. You have no idea what you're talking about, just mindlessly bashing as usual.
> 
> Flac is just a format pseudo audiophiles like you like to throw out there. But let me guess, iPhone users don't care about sound either? Somehow the failing HTC and Samsung suddenly cater to professionals? How delusional are you?
> 
> Enjoy that's Beats audio, lol. Sounds like you we're suckered into marketing. Love that bass
Click to expand...

Your iPhone can drive some 36 ohm @ 1KHz IEMs; that's cute. They won't output enough power to properly drive the ER-4S. So, unless you can prove that they could properly drive 100 ohm IEMs, over the entire frequency curve (understand that rated impedance is typically averaged to the 1KHz frequency), you can stop speaking out of your arse.

Have you looked at distortion graphs of ALC, MP3, ACC, FLAC, and WAV before? Doesn't sound like it. There is no 'pseudo' effect as FLAC offers no distortion to audio tracks upwards to ~120 dB. You can't say thet same about ALC, MP3, nor AAC, especially when Apple's codecs compressed the audio file in ways that is not harmonic with the rest of the frequency band. Frequencies they 'choose' that you won't listen to are greatly distorted.

I don't use the Beats equalizer. Funny you don't look into the schematics of the audio design, nor the audio logistics used in a phone before shooting crap out your arse. Seriously, stop posting nonsense and get an education.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Your iPhone can drive some 36 ohm @ 1KHz IEMs; that's cute. They won't output enough power to properly drive the ER-4S. So, unless you can prove that they could properly drive 100 ohm IEMs, over the entire frequency curve (understand that rated impedance is typically averaged to the 1KHz frequency), you can stop speaking out of your arse.
> 
> Have you looked at distortion graphs of ALC, MP3, ACC, FLAC, and WAV before? Doesn't sound like it. There is no 'pseudo' effect as FLAC offers no distortion to audio tracks upwards to ~120 dB. You can't say thet same about ALC, MP3, nor AAC, especially when Apple's codecs compressed the audio file in ways that is not harmonic with the rest of the frequency band. Frequencies they 'choose' that you won't listen to are greatly distorted.
> 
> I don't use the Beats equalizer. Funny you don't look into the schematics of the audio design, nor the audio logistics used in a phone before shooting crap out your arse. Seriously, stop posting nonsense and get an education.


I was referring to psuedo-audiophiles like you that think you're getting superior sound from a _smartphone_ just because your phone supports flac. My Shure's are vastly superior to your headphones. Perhaps you should invest in a better set. Like a typical Android user, you're all high and mighty with your Google driven education. Enjoy those Beats







And I hope HTC stays in business long enough for you


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Your iPhone can drive some 36 ohm @ 1KHz IEMs; that's cute. They won't output enough power to properly drive the ER-4S. So, unless you can prove that they could properly drive 100 ohm IEMs, over the entire frequency curve (understand that rated impedance is typically averaged to the 1KHz frequency), you can stop speaking out of your arse.


why are you using er-4s on a mobile device. there is a reason they make er-4p, it is easier to drive. er-4s is made *specifically* to be used with stereo amps. also there is a difference between quality and power. iphone might have less power, but is certainly higher quality with less distortion.

apple lossless vs flac, seriously? first of all, why are you using lossless files on a portable device? double blind tests shown that people cannot even discern the difference between 320kbps and lossless, and on a mobile device? you are lessening your battery life for nothing


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seanage*
> 
> apple is getting passed up... and why keep comparing stats to their original phone made like 5+ years ago. I'm willing to bet the ford focus is roughly 40x more efficient (among other aspecs) than the model T. Don't think we are still using the model T as reference now are we?


It's not the reference model -- it's simply out of interest. It's pretty amazing how fast mobile tech has progressed.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's not the reference model -- it's simply out of interest. It's pretty amazing how fast mobile tech has progressed.


it still kinda is, more or less, where it counts. how many android manufacturers are going to start switching to 64 bit for their flagship devices soon? a lot i bet


----------



## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seanage*
> 
> apple is getting passed up... and why keep comparing stats to their original phone made like 5+ years ago. I'm willing to bet the ford focus is roughly 40x more efficient (among other aspecs) than the model T. Don't think we are still using the model T as reference now are we?


It would be more like if Ford compared their 2013 model to their 2007 model in order to show how much they've progressed over the past few years. Comparing it to the model T which was released over 100 years ago is just extreme silliness in order to promote your argument.


----------



## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> It would be more like if Ford compared their 2013 model to their 2007 model in order to show how much they've progressed over the past few years. Comparing it to the model T which was released over 100 years ago is just extreme silliness in order to promote your argument.


His point was that comparing the original to the current model doesn't really tell us anything about the current model.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> His point was that comparing the original to the current model doesn't really tell us anything about the current model.


That's true, but that wasn't its purpose. Saying it's up to twice as fast as the 5 is a solid reference. Comparison to the original iPhone was more just fun fact stuff.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Maybe, I dunno. Can you play .flacs on iOS devices now though?


No, but ALAC is there. ALAC and FLAC are pretty much created equal and the only thing to possibly surpass that are WAV and AIFF files (Apple bred, in fact). ALAC, IMO offers superior tagging ability, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Android headset manufacturers have already mastered, if anything, done better then apple. Giving the support of a decent grade opamp on the HTC One is one example. The iPhone5 won't be able to properly drive my ER-4S.
> 
> Samsung, since the S3 and S1, has already given equal sound quality. Frankly, when FLAC is not supported on the iPhone, there is no point in making an argument in stating 'superior' sound quality when it doesn't have the capabilities of even performing so. Apple doesn't cater to professionals, they cater to the disorientated mass. Enjoy ALC through a USB out to an AMP while my HTC One can surpass it on the spot.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> why are you using er-4s on a mobile device. there is a reason they make er-4p, it is easier to drive. er-4s is made *specifically* to be used with stereo amps. also there is a difference between quality and power. iphone might have less power, but is certainly higher quality with less distortion.
> 
> apple lossless vs flac, seriously? first of all, why are you using lossless files on a portable device? double blind tests shown that people cannot even discern the difference between 320kbps and lossless, and on a mobile device? you are lessening your battery life for nothing


Perfectblade kinda summed up my thoughts, but I'll add:

-ALAC and FLAC are lossless formats. They are interchangeable and any difference you think you hear is placebo.
-AAC has actually been said to sound better, while being more efficient than WMA, and MP3. The best universal audio codec, as some would claim.
-You are in fact using a version of the Ety's that are meant to be amped when playing through a device, so I'm confused as to what your point is here.

I want to address the claim that 'Android headset manufacturers have already mastered...'. The HTC One is one example of about 50-100 different flagship devices that have come into existence over the past couple of years. Also, for the US variants of the S3, we did not get the superior DAC (Wolfson chip) that the European market did. We got the standard 'onboard DAC', which in fact, actually sounds quite good. The average user wouldn't notice the difference, but those who care, probably will. Our S1 did have the Wolfson as well, but with the exception of the Note line, I believe, we haven't had a Wolfson graced Galaxy device since then (unless the S4 does). I say that to say this: ALL manufacturers are not on the same page when it comes to Android. Android does not force a hardware 'minimum' per say, where things such as audio, CPU, GPU, or screen quality HAVE to be of a certain standard (this is an example). I'll list a few devices really quick that were 'flagship' or 'top-tier' devices, but did not sound too great, or merely, just OK:

-LG Nexus 4
-Samsung Galaxy Nexus
-Nexus 7
-Razr M, Maxx, HD, etc.

You actually start to notice a trend, there, but devices I have found to sound good are the S3, HTC One X (haven't tried the One, yet), Nexus 10. So point being; Android devices have the capability of being audio monsters, and FLAC is an added benefit, that's for sure. But manufacturers for the most part put audio in their afterthoughts. Obviously the HTC One didn't, as I know it is specifically marketed that way.

Now what I'm getting at is that Apple makes very few phones, and with that comes the benefit of being able to enforce their own hardware minimum. The first couple of iPhones used Wolfson DACs, and sounded great. After Wolfson, they went with Cirrus DACs. A lot of people got mad, claimed it was inferior, and raised hell. Needless to say, the 'myth' of the Cirrus DAC being inferior was debunked. It was actually measured to be truer than the Wolfson DAC previously used, but people still took sides as the Wolfrson is said to have a 'warmer' and more natural tone/sound.

@ Gigatel.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but Beats is software only. The HTC One X sounded fantastic sans Beats software. I think you're upset, but at least try to be logical.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Your iPhone can drive some 36 ohm @ 1KHz IEMs; that's cute. They won't output enough power to properly drive the ER-4S. So, unless you can prove that they could properly drive 100 ohm IEMs, over the entire frequency curve (understand that rated impedance is typically averaged to the 1KHz frequency), you can stop speaking out of your arse.
> 
> Have you looked at distortion graphs of ALC, MP3, ACC, FLAC, and WAV before? Doesn't sound like it. There is no 'pseudo' effect as FLAC offers no distortion to audio tracks upwards to ~120 dB. You can't say thet same about ALC, MP3, nor AAC, especially when Apple's codecs compressed the audio file in ways that is not harmonic with the rest of the frequency band. Frequencies they 'choose' that you won't listen to are greatly distorted.
> 
> I don't use the Beats equalizer. Funny you don't look into the schematics of the audio design, nor the audio logistics used in a phone before shooting crap out your arse. Seriously, stop posting nonsense and get an education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to psuedo-audiophiles like you that think you're getting superior sound from a _smartphone_ just because your phone supports flac. My Shure's are vastly superior to your headphones. Perhaps you should invest in a better set. Like a typical Android user, you're all high and mighty with your Google driven education. Enjoy those Beats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I hope HTC stays in business long enough for you
Click to expand...

You're losing credibility with your claims, Gigatel. When you look at the technical data of the retained quality of how you have your music ripped, there is no 'psuedo' aspects to audio quality from it's original source [1]. FLAC is far superior in maintaining audio fidelity, tonal accuracy, and less distortion then the vast majority of lossless/lossy codecs available. MP3, AAC, and ALAC doesn't retain the same level of accuracy of FLAC, or WAV retains during the rip. I value audio fidelity, and nor do I care about inaudible distortions that don't impact my listening experience,

[1] http://www.stereophile.com/content/mp3-vs-aac-vs-flac-vs-cd-page-2

Vastly superior is far from the truth. Your Shures, as many reviews have shown, match the accuracy of the ER-4S but add a slightly 'fuller' experience given the difference in drivers. Your Shures also cost nearly twice as much, are more bulky, and aren't worth double the price. Likewise, the ER-4S and ER-4P don't produce the same accuracy. The capabilities of the audio hardware, and design, in the HTC One rivals most higher end dedicated players in the 200-300 dollar segment, DAC+AMP combos, etc. Many audio enthusiasts/engineers have argued such and it's supported in it's technical capabilities of the phone.

Unless the Canadian university education standards have dropped to relying on 'Google' as being their source of education practices, then no, my supposed 'high and mighty' sense not only does not exist, but is not based on 'Google' reading. Frankly, I've been educated quite well. I'm only 23 and have already made significant advancements in medical history, have attended university under psychology, science, math, engineering (civil, electrical, mechanical). and I'm ending up specializing in mechanical engineering. I'm associated with professional engineers and currently making another significant advancement in the Oil Sands industry on my current project. All of these is being done before I have even finished my degree. No, my level of education is based on the teachings practiced by high Canadian standards by individuals that are considered the best of the best in their doctrines.

I don't use beats software. I have it disabled. It has no impact on my audio conversions. FLAC also doesn't eat away at my battery as much as one would think; I get a full use of my phone on a full charge for the entire day.

If HTC stays in business won't magically change the hardware found in a cell phone. Unless a physical human being purposely destroys my phone, HTC going out of business will not effect the components inside this device. If you were attempting to claim that I'm an 'HTC fanboy', it's unfortunate you could draw such a conclusion when I have owned and used products from nearly all competing vendors. However, you obvious offense and emotional outbursts show the contrary that you may be emotional effected by the love of your material possession, called the iPhone, and your beloved company Apple.

Enjoy!


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You're losing credibility with your claims, Gigatel. When you look at the technical data of the retained quality of how you have your music ripped, there is no 'psuedo' aspects to audio quality from it's original source [1]. FLAC is far superior in maintaining audio fidelity, tonal accuracy, and less distortion then the vast majority of lossless/lossy codecs available. MP3, AAC, and ALAC doesn't retain the same level of accuracy of FLAC, or WAV retains during the rip. I value audio fidelity, and nor do I care about inaudible distortions that don't impact my listening experience,
> 
> [1] http://www.stereophile.com/content/mp3-vs-aac-vs-flac-vs-cd-page-2
> 
> Vastly superior is far from the truth. Your Shures, as many reviews have shown, match the accuracy of the ER-4S but add a slightly 'fuller' experience given the difference in drivers. Your Shures also cost nearly twice as much, are more bulky, and aren't worth double the price. Likewise, the ER-4S and ER-4P don't produce the same accuracy.
> 
> Unless the Canadian university education standards have dropped to relying on 'Google' as being their source of education practices, then no, my supposed 'high and mighty' sense not only does not exist, but is not based on 'Google' reading. Frankly, I've been educated quite well. I'm only 23 and have already made significant advancements in medical history, have attended university under psychology, science, math, engineering (civil, electrical, mechanical). and I'm ending up specializing in mechanical engineering. I'm associated with professional engineers and currently making another significant advancement in the Oil Sands industry on my current project. All of these is being done before I have even finished my degree. No, my level of education is based on the teachings practiced by high Canadian standards by individuals that are considered the best of the best in their doctrines.
> 
> I don't use beats software. I have it disabled. It has no impact on my audio conversions. FLAC also doesn't eat away at my battery as much as one would think; I get a full use of my phone on a full charge for the entire day.
> 
> HTC staying in business won't magically change the hardware found in a cell phone. Unless a physical human being purposely destroys my phone, HTC going out of business will not effect the components inside this device. If you were attempting to claim that I'm an 'HTC fanboy', it's unfortunate you could draw such a conclusion when I have owned and used products from nearly all competing vendors. However, you obvious offense and emotional outbursts show the contrary that you may be emotional effected by the love of your material possession, called the iPhone, and your beloved company Apple.
> 
> Enjoy!


yeah ok. explain why you use a device that is solely designed for use with high-power amps. *literally* the only difference between it and the er-4p is that it is higher impedance. so you are only decreasing your battery life by using it. i should know since i used to own a pair of er-4s and bought a pair of er-4p solely for this reason.

also, you're forgetting the importance of source accuracy. you think your htc is equivalent to the iphone sound reproduction accuracy? please


----------



## Gigatel

So you think you can tell the difference between high quality mp3s and flac, both being played on a smartphone?

Spoiler: You cant. In reality, you're just wasting storage space and battery life, all the while trying to sound superior to others. I'm not sure why you rattled of your résumé. All it tells me is you're young, unaccomplished, and inexperienced, but hey, I'm sure you impressed someone here


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You're losing credibility with your claims, Gigatel. When you look at the technical data of the retained quality of how you have your music ripped, there is no 'psuedo' aspects to audio quality from it's original source [1]. FLAC is far superior in maintaining audio fidelity, tonal accuracy, and less distortion then the vast majority of lossless/lossy codecs available. MP3, AAC, and ALAC doesn't retain the same level of accuracy of FLAC, or WAV retains during the rip. I value audio fidelity, and nor do I care about inaudible distortions that don't impact my listening experience,
> 
> [1] http://www.stereophile.com/content/mp3-vs-aac-vs-flac-vs-cd-page-2
> 
> Vastly superior is far from the truth. Your Shures, as many reviews have shown, match the accuracy of the ER-4S but add a slightly 'fuller' experience given the difference in drivers. Your Shures also cost nearly twice as much, are more bulky, and aren't worth double the price. Likewise, the ER-4S and ER-4P don't produce the same accuracy.
> 
> Unless the Canadian university education standards have dropped to relying on 'Google' as being their source of education practices, then no, my supposed 'high and mighty' sense not only does not exist, but is not based on 'Google' reading. Frankly, I've been educated quite well. I'm only 23 and have already made significant advancements in medical history, have attended university under psychology, science, math, engineering (civil, electrical, mechanical). and I'm ending up specializing in mechanical engineering. I'm associated with professional engineers and currently making another significant advancement in the Oil Sands industry on my current project. All of these is being done before I have even finished my degree. No, my level of education is based on the teachings practiced by high Canadian standards by individuals that are considered the best of the best in their doctrines.
> 
> I don't use beats software. I have it disabled. It has no impact on my audio conversions. FLAC also doesn't eat away at my battery as much as one would think; I get a full use of my phone on a full charge for the entire day.
> 
> HTC staying in business won't magically change the hardware found in a cell phone. Unless a physical human being purposely destroys my phone, HTC going out of business will not effect the components inside this device. If you were attempting to claim that I'm an 'HTC fanboy', it's unfortunate you could draw such a conclusion when I have owned and used products from nearly all competing vendors. However, you obvious offense and emotional outbursts show the contrary that you may be emotional effected by the love of your material possession, called the iPhone, and your beloved company Apple.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah ok. explain why you use a device that is solely designed for use with high-power amps. *literally* the only difference between it and the er-4p is that it is higher impedance. so you are only decreasing your battery life by using it. i should know since i used to own a pair of er-4s and bought a pair of er-4p solely for this reason
Click to expand...



There is audible differences.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> 
> 
> There is audible differences.


yeah i know higher impedance=difference in reproduction. now combine that graph with a comparison of the htc soundcard vs the iphone soundcard. i doubt that would be pretty


----------



## Doomtomb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> I expected more from Apple here actually, a lot more.


When has anyone ever expected 'more' from Apple?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> You're losing credibility with your claims, Gigatel. When you look at the technical data of the retained quality of how you have your music ripped, there is no 'psuedo' aspects to audio quality from it's original source [1]. FLAC is far superior in maintaining audio fidelity, tonal accuracy, and less distortion then the vast majority of lossless/lossy codecs available. MP3, AAC, and ALAC doesn't retain the same level of accuracy of FLAC, or WAV retains during the rip. I value audio fidelity, and nor do I care about inaudible distortions that don't impact my listening experience,
> 
> [1] http://www.stereophile.com/content/mp3-vs-aac-vs-flac-vs-cd-page-2
> 
> Vastly superior is far from the truth. Your Shures, as many reviews have shown, match the accuracy of the ER-4S but add a slightly 'fuller' experience given the difference in drivers. Your Shures also cost nearly twice as much, are more bulky, and aren't worth double the price. Likewise, the ER-4S and ER-4P don't produce the same accuracy. The capabilities of the audio hardware, and design, in the HTC One rivals most higher end dedicated players in the 200-300 dollar segment, DAC+AMP combos, etc. Many audio enthusiasts/engineers have argued such and it's supported in it's technical capabilities of the phone.
> 
> Unless the Canadian university education standards have dropped to relying on 'Google' as being their source of education practices, then no, my supposed 'high and mighty' sense not only does not exist, but is not based on 'Google' reading. Frankly, I've been educated quite well. I'm only 23 and have already made significant advancements in medical history, have attended university under psychology, science, math, engineering (civil, electrical, mechanical). and I'm ending up specializing in mechanical engineering. I'm associated with professional engineers and currently making another significant advancement in the Oil Sands industry on my current project. All of these is being done before I have even finished my degree. No, my level of education is based on the teachings practiced by high Canadian standards by individuals that are considered the best of the best in their doctrines.
> 
> I don't use beats software. I have it disabled. It has no impact on my audio conversions. FLAC also doesn't eat away at my battery as much as one would think; I get a full use of my phone on a full charge for the entire day.
> 
> If HTC stays in business won't magically change the hardware found in a cell phone. Unless a physical human being purposely destroys my phone, HTC going out of business will not effect the components inside this device. If you were attempting to claim that I'm an 'HTC fanboy', it's unfortunate you could draw such a conclusion when I have owned and used products from nearly all competing vendors. However, you obvious offense and emotional outbursts show the contrary that you may be emotional effected by the love of your material possession, called the iPhone, and your beloved company Apple.
> 
> Enjoy!


I'm not sure what you're still claiming, but this is to quote the article you linked:
Quote:


> What does all this mean?
> Basically, if you want true CD quality from the files on your iPod or music server, you must use WAV or AIF encoding or FLAC, ALC, or WMA Lossless. Both MP3 and AAC introduce fairly large changes in the measured spectra, even at the highest rate of 320kbps. There seems little point in spending large sums of money on superbly specified audio equipment if you are going to play sonically compromised, lossy-compressed music on it.
> 
> It is true that there are better-performing MP3 codecs than the basic Fraunhöfer-many audiophiles recommend the LAME encoder-but the AAC codec used by iTunes has better resolution than MP3 at the same bit rate (if a little noisier at the top of the audioband). If you want the maximum number of files on your iPod, therefore, you take less of a quality hit if you use AAC encoding than if you use MP3. But "CD quality"? Yeah, right!


----------



## steelbom

I'm looking forward to seeing some benchmarks on the 5S. I ran some tests on a 5 and 4S, and they scored ~1530ms and ~760ms respectively in the latest version of SunSpider -- I wonder if the 5S will be able to get down to 350ms?


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gigatel*
> 
> So you think you can tell the difference between high quality mp3s and flac, both being played on a smartphone?
> 
> Spoiler: You cant. In reality, you're just wasting storage space and battery life, all the while trying to sound superior to others. I'm not sure why you rattled of your résumé. All it tells me is you're young, unaccomplished, and inexperienced, but hey, I'm sure you impressed someone here


What if your going to plug your Phone into your car?

My car's audio system could easily hear the difference, but I also have aftermarket audio equipment. Let alone my headphones, some songs sound a lot cleaner on a FLAC file though many others not so much.

Also when it comes to storage space, a 32GB SD card can hold more music then I need it to. I don't need my entire music library on my phone.


----------



## PhantomTaco

When people argue audio codecs I lol. I have a mid-highish end audio setup (O2/ODAC and Mad Dogs), and a dozen friends of mine (and myself) cannot tell the difference between AAC, ALAC, mp3 v0, and FLAC. Also have tested with the HD 650s, AKG 702s, and AD700s. If you guys are going to claim that you can hear the difference on a cellphone audio solution either you have hearing beyond 99% of the norm, or have a placebo effect kicking in.

Furthermore, if you're going to talk about comparing audio solutions, I could care less what amp is built into your phone, it's going to be weak and there's no arguing that. If you REALLY wanted good audio, you'd be getting a portable external amp anyway.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> What if your going to plug your Phone into your car?
> 
> My car's audio system could easily hear the difference, but I also have aftermarket audio equipment. Let alone my headphones, some songs sound a lot cleaner on a FLAC file though many others not so much.
> 
> Also when it comes to storage space, a 32GB SD card can hold more music then I need it to. I don't need my entire music library on my phone.


In the case of the iPhone, plugging into your car's system (assuming from it's 30-pin or Lightning connection) is superior to it's own headphone out, so in that case it will sound better.

I've got no idea what your car had in it, but in a very 'flawed' sound space, your car would need to be nearly dead quiet, and professionally tuned to be true to sound. And even then one would be hard pressed to tell the difference of the same track, ripped from the same source in ALAC and FLAC or MP3 and AAC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> When people argue audio codecs I lol. I have a mid-highish end audio setup (O2/ODAC and Mad Dogs), and a dozen friends of mine (and myself) cannot tell the difference between AAC, ALAC, mp3 v0, and FLAC. Also have tested with the HD 650s, AKG 702s, and AD700s. If you guys are going to claim that you can hear the difference on a cellphone audio solution either you have hearing beyond 99% of the norm, or have a placebo effect kicking in.
> 
> Furthermore, if you're going to talk about comparing audio solutions, I could care less what amp is built into your phone, it's going to be weak and there's no arguing that. If you REALLY wanted good audio, you'd be getting a portable external amp anyway.


If you want good audio on the go, an amp is not always necessary. Headphones like the Triple.fi 10 or Shure SE5xx are IEMS that are built around the idea of being utilized from a portable device without the need of lugging around an amp as well. Sure, certain IEMS do benefit greatly from being amped (I.e. Domino's ER-4S) but I've never found the Triple.fi's to do so. The only thing amps have done for it is just alter it's sound signature slightly.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> What if your going to plug your Phone into your car?
> 
> My car's audio system could easily hear the difference, but I also have aftermarket audio equipment. Let alone my headphones, some songs sound a lot cleaner on a FLAC file though many others not so much.
> 
> Also when it comes to storage space, a 32GB SD card can hold more music then I need it to. I don't need my entire music library on my phone.
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the iPhone, plugging into your car's system (assuming from it's 30-pin or Lightning connection) is superior to it's own headphone out, so in that case it will sound better.
> 
> I've got no idea what your car had in it, but in a very 'flawed' sound space, your car would need to be nearly dead quiet, and professionally tuned to be true to sound. And even then one would be hard pressed to tell the difference of the same track, ripped from the same source in ALAC and FLAC or MP3 and AAC.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> When people argue audio codecs I lol. I have a mid-highish end audio setup (O2/ODAC and Mad Dogs), and a dozen friends of mine (and myself) cannot tell the difference between AAC, ALAC, mp3 v0, and FLAC. Also have tested with the HD 650s, AKG 702s, and AD700s. If you guys are going to claim that you can hear the difference on a cellphone audio solution either you have hearing beyond 99% of the norm, or have a placebo effect kicking in.
> 
> Furthermore, if you're going to talk about comparing audio solutions, I could care less what amp is built into your phone, it's going to be weak and there's no arguing that. If you REALLY wanted good audio, you'd be getting a portable external amp anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you want good audio on the go, an amp is not always necessary. Headphones like the Triple.fi 10 or Shure SE5xx are IEMS that are built around the idea of being utilized from a portable device without the need of lugging around an amp as well. Sure, certain IEMS do benefit greatly from being amped (I.e. Domino's ER-4S) but I've never found the Triple.fi's to do so. The only thing amps have done for it is just alter it's sound signature slightly.
Click to expand...

The HTC One can power the ER-4S quite well, actually. Don't notice much, if any, difference between my O2/ODAC and the HTC One.

FLAC doesn't burn battery life as much would think:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92235
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=82125

More CPU usage goes into decoding AAC then FLAC/WAV.


----------



## Gigatel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> When people argue audio codecs I lol. I have a mid-highish end audio setup (O2/ODAC and Mad Dogs), and a dozen friends of mine (and myself) cannot tell the difference between AAC, ALAC, mp3 v0, and FLAC. Also have tested with the HD 650s, AKG 702s, and AD700s. If you guys are going to claim that you can hear the difference on a cellphone audio solution either you have hearing beyond 99% of the norm, or have a placebo effect kicking in.
> 
> Furthermore, if you're going to talk about comparing audio solutions, I could care less what amp is built into your phone, it's going to be weak and there's no arguing that. If you REALLY wanted good audio, you'd be getting a portable external amp anyway.


+1


----------



## JTHMfreak

I personally really enjoy my Lumia 1020. I have had iPhones, a Galaxy S3, and now a windows phone. Iphone screen is too small for me and the Lumia provides me with better pics of my son. I know that Windows phone is not for everyone, but I like it. I tried android to see what all the fuss was about and it just was not for me.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing some benchmarks on the 5S. I ran some tests on a 5 and 4S, and they scored ~1530ms and ~760ms respectively in the latest version of SunSpider -- I wonder if the 5S will be able to get down to 350ms?


No way. Haswell gets about ~100ms. It's not going to be just 3.5x worse than Haswell, I expect.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

In terms of sound quality using headphones iPhone 4 vs HTC One. Which is better?


----------



## pez

I've got no experience with the One, though I do with the One X. The One X sounded great, so if the One is anything like it or better, then you can't go wrong. I'd say the battle is more up to which phone you care for more, or the OS. Why the 4, though?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I've got no experience with the One, though I do with the One X. The One X sounded great, so if the One is anything like it or better, then you can't go wrong. I'd say the battle is more up to which phone you care for more, or the OS. Why the 4, though?


Was watching some Linus Tech Tips video and he was clamming that iPhone 4 has better sound quality then HTC One.


----------



## JTHMfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Was watching some Linus Tech Tips video and he was clamming that iPhone 4 has better sound quality then HTC One.


Music sounded great on my iphone with the stock ear buds. Also sounded great with my klipsch buds too.


----------



## pcguru000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SMK*
> 
> Revolutionary


While i see it as a solid phone I still can't justify the price (overall) - you can get a HTC One for a hundred bucks... it's just as solid a phone and perhaps better in a few departments

I don't see a finger print scanner as revolutionary, we've had them on laptops since 2005 and earlier... Just seems like another feature they'll hype up acting like it didn't already exist, charging a crap ton extra for it as a "new" thing...


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcguru000*
> 
> While i see it as a solid phone I still can't justify the price (overall) - you can get a HTC One for a hundred bucks... it's just as solid a phone and perhaps better in a few departments
> 
> I don't see a finger print scanner as revolutionary, we've had them on laptops since 2005 and earlier... Just seems like another feature they'll hype up acting like it didn't already exist, charging a crap ton extra for it as a "new" thing...


I love how people always fall back onto this argument. Yes you're right it has existed before, but it was never good enough to be seen as a useful feature. The software often was buggy, slow to scan, and required multiple attempts to work properly. From the videos I've seen this solution is near instant, and has an incredibly high accuracy rate. What's more, I see it being more useful on a phone (where typing in a password is kind of annoying) than on a laptop (where typing is much easier). Hyping it up as being the first in it's product segment makes perfect sense, much like hyping up NFC on pcs and laptops now, same with hyping up hdmi ports on cellphones (remember when android manufacturers were parading this around, even though the spec has been around for over what 15 years?)

This constant back and forth bickering between iOS and Android fanboys is so juvenile it makes my face hurt (not directed at you pcguru000)


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Was watching some Linus Tech Tips video and he was clamming that iPhone 4 has better sound quality then HTC One.


One thing about the videos you watch is to make sure they're not talking about speaker quality, but rather headphone out quality. Not saying you made that mistake, but when researching, I've run into that annoyance before.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> One thing about the videos you watch is to make sure they're not talking about speaker quality, but rather headphone out quality. Not saying you made that mistake, but when researching, I've run into that annoyance before.


I know speaker quality is very good in HTC One. He was talking about headphone out.


----------



## pez

Oh, well I still wouldn't know as my lack of experience with the One doesn't help







. Either way, the iPhone 4 is a solid choice.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Oh, well I still wouldn't know as my lack of experience with the One doesn't help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Either way, the iPhone 4 is a solid choice.


I have had iPhone 4 but never had HTC One. Had many other Android phones and never had problems with headphone quality. He was referring to HTC One has having horrible sound.


----------



## pez

If I'm recalling correctly, he said Beats was crap...and it is...IMO...but it's software only, and can be disabled. Ironically enough, with it turned off, the One X was still a fantastic music player.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> No way. Haswell gets about ~100ms. It's not going to be just 3.5x worse than Haswell, I expect.


I don't think you can compare the two processors like that based on their SunSpider score. The 5 scores 750ms -- does this mean Haswell is only 7.5x more powerful? I don't think so.


----------



## mironccr345

Now that I've updated to iOS7, I love my iPhone 4 again.


----------



## Arizonian

When I downloaded iOS 7.0 on my *4S* I felt like it slowed down my phone a tad. Things seemed just a hair more sluggish.

Yesterday I got my *5S* and it it definitely feels like a worthy upgrade from *4S* even from running previous iOS.









At first I was skeptical regarding the camera improvement. Took some pictures in complete dark where my *4S* pictures would come up with a white haze the *5S* two tone flash illuminates the room first and then a second flash takes the picture. The pictures are now a clear lit up room without any white fog in the photo.









After working all day yesterday I called the Apple store and they were sold out without any knowledge when next shipment was due. I checked around, out of five Sprint stores in my area one had a few left which I was able to land the very last one by the time I got there.

I'm very happy because the *4S* I traded in had fallen into a lake a year ago where I was lucky enough to dry it up and regain functionality after a weeks time. The buy back program only cost me $59.99 to upgrade to the 16GB *5S*.









Just thought I'd share.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> When I downloaded iOS 7.0 on my *4S* I felt like it slowed down my phone a tad. Things seemed just a hair more sluggish.
> 
> Yesterday I got my *5S* and it it definitely feels like a worthy upgrade from *4S* even from running previous iOS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I was skeptical regarding the camera improvement. Took some pictures in complete dark where my *4S* pictures would come up with a white haze the *5S* two tone flash illuminates the room first and then a second flash takes the picture. The pictures are now a clear lit up room without any white fog in the photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After working all day yesterday I called the Apple store and they were sold out without any knowledge when next shipment was due. I checked around, out of five Sprint stores in my area one had a few left which I was able to land the very last one by the time I got there.
> 
> I'm very happy because the *4S* I traded in had fallen into a lake a year ago where I was lucky enough to dry it up and regain functionality after a weeks time. The buy back program only cost me $59.99 to upgrade to the 16GB *5S*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd share.


I wish the buy back program was available in India







Over here, 99% of the people buy unlocked phones and they're priced pretty high!







Sticking with my 5 for another year


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chip94*
> 
> I wish the buy back program was available in India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over here, 99% of the people buy unlocked phones and they're priced pretty high!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sticking with my 5 for another year


Sorry to hear no buy back program where you live. I'm sort of surprised for India. If it's any consolation, my son has the *5* and it's not a worthy upgrade from that to *5S*. He's going to wait until *6* or *6S* and is completely satisfied.

We upgrade once every two years in our household. Had youngest kid move to *Optimus G* just a bit ago rather than *4S* and it's a really nice smartphone too. More screen he enjoys for surfing and streaming and he already had the latest iPod for his music anyway. I had asked him if he wanted my *4S* over his *Optimus G* and he prefers his *Optimus G* better.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Sorry to hear no buy back program where you live. I'm sort of surprised for India. If it's any consolation, my son has the *5* and it's not a worthy upgrade from that to *5S*. He's going to wait until *6* or *6S* and is completely satisfied.
> 
> We upgrade once every two years in our household. Had youngest kid move to *Optimus G* just a bit ago rather than *4S* and it's a really nice smartphone too. More screen he enjoys for surfing and streaming and he already had the latest iPod for his music anyway. I had asked him if he wanted my *4S* over his *Optimus G* and he prefers his *Optimus G* better.


Yeah the upgrade plan is pretty much the same with me and my family. We skip a generation, so I'll wait for the 6 while my dad and brother get the 5S. Might be able to exchange it with my dad


----------



## sherlock

I wish HTC/Samsung would take a hint from Apple and move the Headphone jack to the bottom of the phone, It makes so much sense.

p.s Despite owning a Android phone I use the Apple Earpods, they are so comfortable in my ear that I don't mind losing the ability to adjust volume.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> I wish HTC/Samsung would take a hint from Apple and move the Headphone jack to the bottom of the phone, It makes so much sense.
> 
> p.s Despite owning a Android phone I use the Apple Earpods, they are so comfortable in my ear that I don't mind losing the ability to adjust volume.


I hope they don't. The jack at the bottom makes no sense at all in terms of use. If you put your phone anywhere, the aux on top makes sense. If you use an Aux cable in the car for audio, it means your phone can be right-way up in the cup-holder. In your pocket, it means that the volume rocker is closer to the pocket-opening, making volume adjustment easier. If anything, I wish they'd move the USB port to the top as well. On my desk right now, the S4 looks dumb, because the cable wraps the entire way around the phone to charge it, since I actually use my phone while it's plugged it. It's just awkward.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> I hope they don't. The jack at the bottom makes no sense at all in terms of use. If you put your phone anywhere, the aux on top makes sense. If you use an Aux cable in the car for audio, it means your phone can be right-way up in the cup-holder. In your pocket, it means that the volume rocker is closer to the pocket-opening, making volume adjustment easier. If anything, I wish they'd move the USB port to the top as well. On my desk right now, the S4 looks dumb, because the cable wraps the entire way around the phone to charge it, since I actually use my phone while it's plugged it. It's just awkward.


It makes a lot of sense, I have to rotate my HTC One/GS4 180 degrees when I pull it out of my pocket with headphone attached to see the screen in the right orientation. For a Iphone or a G2 such a step is not needed because the jack is on the bottom. If you believe it makes no sense you must never pulled a phone out of pocket with headphone attached before.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> It makes a lot of sense, I have to rotate my HTC One/GS4 180 degrees when I pull it out of my pocket with headphone attached to see the screen in the right orientation. For a Iphone or a G2 such a step is not needed because the jack is on the bottom. If you believe it makes no sense you must never pulled a phone out of pocket with headphone attached before.


My 4S has the jack at the top. I whip it out of my pocket with the headphones all the time so I know what you mean, though I've gotten outstandingly good at whipping it out of my pocket and catching it the right way up -- high risk, high reward.... lol.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> My 4S has the jack at the top. I whip it out of my pocket with the headphones all the time so I know what you mean, though I've gotten outstandingly good at whipping it out of my pocket and catching it the right way up -- high risk, high reward.... lol.


What a Sir.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> I hope they don't. The jack at the bottom makes no sense at all in terms of use. If you put your phone anywhere, the aux on top makes sense. If you use an Aux cable in the car for audio, it means your phone can be right-way up in the cup-holder. In your pocket, it means that the volume rocker is closer to the pocket-opening, making volume adjustment easier. If anything, I wish they'd move the USB port to the top as well. On my desk right now, the S4 looks dumb, because the cable wraps the entire way around the phone to charge it, since I actually use my phone while it's plugged it. It's just awkward.


Completely agree, I went from having the jack on the top and usb on the side with my old phone. Now on my galaxy nexus, both the usb and headphone jack are on the bottom so I gotten leave my phone upside down in cup holder. I guess I dont have the 180 degree problem since I don't usually listen to music with my phone in my pocket.


----------



## chip94

I'm happy they got the headphone jack back down in my 5 like the iPod Touches. Now it feels natural while pulling the phone out of your pocket because you don't have to rotate it.


----------



## RiverOfIce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> Still should be safer than a four digit passcode most people have. A lot of iPhones I've seen have four distinct finger smudges where the digits of the keypad are. If that's the case, there's only 24 possible combinations to try. The fingerprint reader isn't foolproof but it sounds a lot safer than the current setup.


I wonder what is faster? Having to guess 24 possible combinations, or take a picture of the same finger print and use it to open the phone?
http://www.zdnet.com/hackers-claim-first-iphone-5s-fingerprint-reader-bypass-bounty-founder-awaiting-verification-7000020990/


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RiverOfIce*
> 
> I wonder what is faster? Having to guess 24 possible combinations, or take a picture of the same finger print and use it to open the phone?
> http://www.zdnet.com/hackers-claim-first-iphone-5s-fingerprint-reader-bypass-bounty-founder-awaiting-verification-7000020990/


One note about the fingerprint forgery is it's not so simplistically easy to do which involves photographing a fingerprint left behind on a surface and then creating a glue model of it.

*The Verge* - *Source*
Quote:


> While the hackers claim the method is easy, it's complicated enough that most iPhone 5S users aren't as likely to have their security compromised by an everyday thief who would have to be willing to obtain a high-resolution photograph of a fingerprint and produce a physical fake.


For the uneasy, one can just disable the fingerprint option to unlock the iOS in General Settings and bypass this vulnerability if truly worried.

Video by Starbug onYou Tube who showed how it can be done. One thing I'd like to know is *how do you lift a fingerprint off a photo and create a glue mold of it?* I'm unfamiliar in this procedure.






New iOS 7.0 has had some bumps in security at launch. Not comforting but nothing I'm concerned about as I foresee most of the bugs being addressed quickly. Thankfully , hackers improve security by finding / exposing weakness, so I applaud them for the time / commitment that will lead to a tighter more secure iOS for us users.


----------



## RiverOfIce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> One note about the fingerprint forgery is it's not so simplistically easy to do which involves photographing a fingerprint left behind on a surface and then creating a glue model of it.


I will just cut to the chase. You don't need the fingerprint. You need the phone. In 99% of the cases, the imprint will be on the reader. You can just highlight and use the imprint on the sensor to get into the phone.

There a reason that any security firm will never allow you to use fingerprints. It takes at least your whole hand print.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RiverOfIce*
> 
> I will just cut to the chase. You don't need the fingerprint. You need the phone. In 99% of the cases, the imprint will be on the reader. You can just highlight and use the imprint on the sensor to get into the phone.
> 
> There a reason that any security firm will never allow you to use fingerprints. It takes at least your whole hand print.


Don't see them figuring a way out of this flaw. I use the screen passcode lock anyway.

I guess too much discussions on the 'hows' would be circumventing security so I'll back off from knowing the particulates.


----------



## KSIMP88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpionvenom*
> 
> No 802.11ac in new iPhone 5s ? very odd as new router has it and new macbook air has it


How fast can the iPhone transfer data on itself?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RiverOfIce*
> 
> I will just cut to the chase. You don't need the fingerprint. You need the phone. In 99% of the cases, the imprint will be on the reader. You can just highlight and use the imprint on the sensor to get into the phone.
> 
> There a reason that any security firm will never allow you to use fingerprints. It takes at least your whole hand print.


What do you mean by highlight?

In real world use I don't think it'd be so easy to pull a clear fingerprint off the home button seeing how frequently it will be used, and it's easy potential to be smudged. Regardless of that though, there's little point in trying to steal it as the phone can be located and wiped (which means no one can use it until the original account details are entered) before they could apply the hack.


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What do you mean by highlight?
> 
> In real world use I don't think it'd be so easy to pull a clear fingerprint off the home button seeing how frequently it will be used, and it's easy potential to be smudged. Regardless of that though, there's little point in trying to steal it as the phone can be located and wiped (which means no one can use it until the original account details are entered) before they could apply the hack.


All irrelevant anyway. If your phone is stolen, you probably won't get it back regardless.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> All irrelevant anyway. If your phone is stolen, you probably won't get it back regardless.


If you locate it quickly enough, you have a chance. And you can remotely wipe it and no one but you will ever be able to use it, so that fact is a deterrent in itself.


----------



## GermanyChris

Where's my iPhone, remote wipe, insurance claim….done


----------

