# AMD Kaveri A10-7850K Overclock Guide



## yawa

First things first you aren't stable. Look up your ram timings and voltage settings and set them manually. XMP is a crapshoot on AMD boards as they are kind of an Intel thing.

Of the 5 of us currently riding the Kaveri bandwagon, I believe I am the only one who was able to set the stock XMP profile of my ram and not have issues.

So manually set your ram to something stable and we can go from there.

I will say there isn't much difference to setting an APU from my limited experience but keep in mind you are with us sailing into fairly unknown territory at this point. Even the best OC'r on here's advice to you at the moment may fail catastrophically.

As an example my Kaveri is absurdly pampered at this point with my custom water cooling set up never allowing it to reach temps beyond 50C no matter the voltage or stress I put on it. That being said even at 1.512 volts if I go a hair over 4.5 GHz it's instant freeze or crash.

Uncharted territory is scary and without reason. So that's why you need to be rock solid stable before you even dream of going any further. So let's get that ram stable first because until then all other concerns while running unstable are a distant secondary.


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## semperaye

Thanx I'll try to contact the manufacture of that ram for suggested timings.


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## yawa

You shouldn't have to do that. Just find it on New egg or any review site and look at the details. Also there is likely a sticker on one of the modules telling you the basic timings and voltage as well.


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## semperaye

changing the timings was easy, but I cant seem to be able to change the ddr voltage. In the pic you can see that field is un- selectable. There is another option for dram voltage in the bios so I attempted to set it to 1.65v to see if that would effect the ddr voltage but it did not.

I think this may be the problem...it seems weird that i can not even run diablo 3 without horrible lag on lowest settings. I could run it before with my dual core richland with the same ram. I cant even run the game at optimized defaults...maybe its a combo of driver and ram issues.


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## yawa

Is there a bios update for your board? Some boards may not have shipped fully "Kaveri" ready if you catch my drift.

Another thing to try maybe booting at 2133mhz on the ram or with one stick of ram to test if one of them is just not working right.


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## semperaye

It's stable without errors at 2133mhz with the voltage as stock...god GB has the worst bios's ever. I just downloaded the R7 bios they just released it a few days ago, I guess i'll have to wait for another update to know if its the mb or the drivers....does yours run ok?


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## semperaye

what is the difference between ddr voltage and dram voltage? maybe i'll contact GB and let them know the bios sucks


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## yawa

Yeah other than the overclocking wall I've hit mine runs fine at XMP profile 1. Like I said though, I think I'm the only one who was able to just plop it in and get a profile to work at 2400Mhz.

Keep in mind I did like immediately update my board to the latest bios it had that had come out on 1/09/14. For what it's worth, when you do get stable, I have a feeling you will likely get a much better overclock than me since I can't seep to get anywhere passed 4.5Ghz.

As far as voltage goes I have no idea, as I only have one setting for Dram voltage.


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## semperaye

It's interesting. It seems the only way I can increase the ram voltage is by loading the xmp profile, then manually adjusting the timings. Problem is however, after doing so it's still not stable. I cant even run chrome without crashing. If I lower the frequency to 2133 then it's stable. The MB and CPU both state that 2133 is max supported without oc, so I'm not sure what they mean by "oc", what exactly needs to be oc to make it stable the cpu?


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## semperaye

I guess I'm not the only one having issues. It seems that the ram is only working correctly in Intel systems...still doesn't explain why my richland can play games and kaveri cant


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## semperaye

I think you have to up the cpu nb voltage to use 2400mhz ram with an apu...i'm going to try that and see what happens. If it explodes i'll be sure to let you know.


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## Himo5

Here's an 8GBt TridentX 2666/C11 kit set to 2666MHz straight from it's XMP profile, no problems. This may not be so much thanks to Kaveri as to the Asus A88X PRO board, which also behaved like this with a A10-6800K when I first got it. Click on the image to go to the CPU-Z validation.

http://valid.canardpc.com/ll2w6r


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Here's an 8GBt TridentX 2666/C11 kit set to 2666MHz straight from it's XMP profile, no problems. This may not be so much thanks to Kaveri as to the Asus A88X PRO board, which also behaved like this with a A10-6800K when I first got it. Click on the image to go to the CPU-Z validation.
> 
> http://valid.canardpc.com/ll2w6r


Ouch at those timings


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## Himo5

Those are the published timings for G.Skill TridentX F3-2666C11(&12)D-16GTXD. The A88X PRO runs them straight out of the box.


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## semperaye

Must just be my MB doesn't support my ram or my ram is just ment to be in an intel system....it's to late to get a refund for the ram so i'll just wait for a bios update and cross my fingers it will work in the future.


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## Medusa666

Everything good here, currently at 4,3 ghz with 1,392vcore, and 2133 mhz 9-11-10-30 for timings at 1,5v.
Got the iGPU at 800 mhz with only +0,0018v to the base value, which I believe is 1,275 for the NB.

Rock solid, so when I have plenty of time I will continue into higher territories, however I'm a bit afraid because my VRM heatsink is cool, and the CPU is cool, but I can't believe that running close to 1,4v can be that cool, higher like 1,45 or 1,5 must fry the APU at some point.


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> Everything good here, currently at 4,3 ghz with 1,392vcore, and 2133 mhz 9-11-10-30 for timings at 1,5v.
> Got the iGPU at 800 mhz with only +0,0018v to the base value, which I believe is 1,275 for the NB.
> 
> Rock solid, so when I have plenty of time I will continue into higher territories, however I'm a bit afraid because my VRM heatsink is cool, and the CPU is cool, but I can't believe that running close to 1,4v can be that cool, higher like 1,45 or 1,5 must fry the APU at some point.


If you're worried position a fan to blow on the vrms


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## Medusa666

I have a 120MM fan blowing cold intake air straight on the VRM, the VRM ain't the problem, I do simply do not know the limits of the APU itself.


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## semperaye

guys i cant seem to find where to raise the igpu voltage any ideas what to look for?


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## semperaye

Medusa- I think you solved my ram issue...I wasn't increasing the vcore enough. Being used to the fx4100 I remember only having to click up the voltage one setting to oc 4.6ghz, but this thing apparently takes near 1.4 v to push 2400mhz ram. I'm currently running at your settings minus the igpu b/c i cant find the voltage for that


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I have a 120MM fan blowing cold intake air straight on the VRM, the VRM ain't the problem, I do simply do not know the limits of the APU itself.


Can always rma if you pop it


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## semperaye

I spoke to soon, blue screen of death "system_service_exception" so I was forced to back down to 2133mhz ERRRRRRR!!


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## Stay Puft

I'm joining the party. 7850K + UP4 ordered from newegg


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## Medusa666

I got the Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X too, the NB vcore is under voltage settings, where you can also decide what kind of LLC setting you want for both the CPU voltage and the NB.


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## Medusa666

I'm having problems pushing my Corsair Dominator Platinums over 2133 mhz, the board can be the problem but it should not be.


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## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I'm having problems pushing my Corsair Dominator Platinums over 2133 mhz, the board can be the problem but it should not be.


I think its my board as well, however others reported that my brand of ram typically works better with intel systems but I dont believe it...i think its the bios. For now I've got my 2400mhz rated ram running at 2133 with lower timings. I think the beta drivers are buggy, i've reinstalled windows hoping for better results.


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## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I got the Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X too, the NB vcore is under voltage settings, where you can also decide what kind of LLC setting you want for both the CPU voltage and the NB.


So NB= gpu?


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## semperaye

I heard you can up the nb freq to 1900mhz but I haven't tried it


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## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> So NB= gpu?


Yes, that is correct, however, be cautious when you increase the NB voltage.
With Trinity and Richland, the base value normally would be around 1,275-1,3v, considering that, start with a small overlock to 800 mhz and only increase the voltage slightly.

I'm stable at +0,0018 on the NB with 800 mhz.

Hope it helps.


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I'm having problems pushing my Corsair Dominator Platinums over 2133 mhz, the board can be the problem but it should not be.


The problem is the memory. It's crap. If possible return them for some G. Skill


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## Medusa666

I do not believe it is the memory.

I overclocked my dominators to 2450 mhz, and windows was stable togheter with prime, however when gaming both CCC crashed and Easy tune 6 and the games. I believe it has to do with the beta drivers AMD released. When they mature, things will be stable while gaming.


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## semperaye

Ya...it better just be the new bios's & drivers else I'm going to be VERY disappointed with AMD. I might just end up down clocking the gpu and trying to queeze every bit I can out of the cpu and then get an R9.


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## yawa

The limit, at least on mine in regards to over clocking is a massive voltage wall after 4.5 GHz. I had a bit better success after putting the revision 240 bios on my MOBO, but in regards to clocking passed 4.5 no voltage I try can make it stable, and anything over 1.5 Volts causes instant shutdown.

I may order some vrm water blocks to see if I can alleviate this (lord knows I have the radiator space) but till then it's a miracle if I can even boot at 4.6 4.7.

P.S. keep in minf d LLC is weird in this bios. Try setting it to 0 if vdroop is all over the place. I think it's backwards.


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## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> The limit, at least on mine in regards to over clocking is a massive voltage wall after 4.5 GHz. I had a bit better success after putting the revision 240 bios on my MOBO, but in regards to clocking passed 4.5 no voltage I try can make it stable, and anything over 1.5 Volts causes instant shutdown.
> 
> I may order some vrm water blocks to see if I can alleviate this (lord knows I have the radiator space) but till then it's a miracle if I can even boot at 4.6 4.7.
> 
> P.S. keep in minf d LLC is weird in this bios. Try setting it to 0 if vdroop is all over the place. I think it's backwards.


what voltage did u find worked for 4.5 ghz? FYI, I dont know what I did, but the cpu is now working like it should....diablo 3 is running on high 33-40 fps 1080p with 2133 ram settings, chivalry on high 1080p working good too. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to get 2400mhz out of that ram of mine, ppl running intel platforms have oc the hell out of it well past 2500mhz.


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> The limit, at least on mine in regards to over clocking is a massive voltage wall after 4.5 GHz. I had a bit better success after putting the revision 240 bios on my MOBO, but in regards to clocking passed 4.5 no voltage I try can make it stable, and anything over 1.5 Volts causes instant shutdown.
> 
> I may order some vrm water blocks to see if I can alleviate this (lord knows I have the radiator space) but till then it's a miracle if I can even boot at 4.6 4.7.
> 
> P.S. keep in minf d LLC is weird in this bios. Try setting it to 0 if vdroop is all over the place. I think it's backwards.


Have you tried sub ambient testing yet? I'm going to subject my 7850K to some nice -10C ambient


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## yawa

Sorry buddy I think I'm pretty good at day to day over clocking, but while I'm curious and would love to try LN2 overclocking and the such, it just isn't in my blood or the cards.

This chip has to last me till at least excavator or a higher core count Kaveri drops. Of course if I hit for a million on a scratch ticket, then I'll change my tune.

Lemme know how it works for you though as I'm curious how the voltage wall will affect high over clocks. I haven't heard of anyone on this board getting much above 4.6, and I cannot stress enough cooling isn't the issue for me.


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## semperaye

Guys...what cpu nb freq are you running? I've got mine at 1800mhz default, someone told me that it's supposed to match the ram speed your using? I dont see how it would be safe putting the nb freq at 2133 or 2400 lol?!?!? pls advise


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## yawa

I can't get a lick over 2000 ATM so I hope it isn't.


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## opty165

Hey all, I just wanted to let you guys know that I cannot get my Gskill 2400mhz ram to run at the stock speed either. Games crash constantly and Windows freezes. running 2133 now with no issue. I did try an set the timings and voltage manually, but it had no effect. I'm running the 7850K in a GA-F2A88XM-WIfi board.


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## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opty165*
> 
> Hey all, I just wanted to let you guys know that I cannot get my Gskill 2400mhz ram to run at the stock speed either. Games crash constantly and Windows freezes. running 2133 now with no issue. I did try an set the timings and voltage manually, but it had no effect. I'm running the 7850K in a GA-F2A88XM-WIfi board.


is that their gaming one? it might be the board, it it rated up to 2133 on newegg


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## opty165

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> is that their gaming one? it might be the board, it it rated up to 2133 on newegg


Believe it or not, it used to be listed as 2400 OC. they just recently changed it when it went out of stock. I bought the board back in December. The XMP sets correctly from what i can see, but it's just unstable.

EIDIT: Actually it says 2400 OC on Gigabytes page!


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## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opty165*
> 
> Believe it or not, it used to be listed as 2400 OC. they just recently changed it when it went out of stock. I bought the board back in December. The XMP sets correctly from what i can see, but it's just unstable.
> 
> EIDIT: Actually it says 2400 OC on Gigabytes page!


hmm well even then usally what it says on there isnt all that true, most can go higher

thats odd that its not wanting to go higher though even with timings and voltage


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## JSTe

I'll just leave this here, it's in English from about 0:30 onward.


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## yawa

Well for what it's work I lucked out on the XMP profiles for 2400 Mhz setting perfectly and stable. On the other side of the coin though my Northbridge won't move a hair passed 2000 Mhz (actually 1996Mhz for some weird reason it sits there). I know it's not as important as it used to be with the Phenom's but I'm a bit concerned that the slower Northbridge is killing my latency.

Anyone familiar with APU's have any advice for getting the Northbridge to move?


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## runs2far

Thanks @ JSTe

On the topic of running 2400 MHz memory, it's OC, there is no guarantees and some modules will just not work at that speed with certain motherboards and CPUs.
You can try upping the NB voltage a few bumps and relaxing memory timings, but if it still won't work you're SOL and can only hope a BIOS update may fix your problem in the future.

I'm hoping more will jump on the Kaveri bandwagon, as it looks like a nice CPU to play with


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## jason387

What would be better as a cpu? A FX 4300 or the A10-7850K when both are overclocked to the max?


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> What would be better as a cpu? A FX 4300 or the A10-7850K when both are overclocked to the max?


4300 on price alone. The 7850K isn't worth the extra 79 dollars. Go with a 6300


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## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 4300 on price alone. The 7850K isn't worth the extra 79 dollars. Go with a 6300


Please stop saying stuff like this. We do not know that yet. We dont even have chipset drivers capable of HSA yet on this thing.

Also the 7600K would be a more than viable option if that's your price range. Stronger SR cores than a 4300, decent iGPU for HSA, Floating Point, and Physics in a few weeks, and comparable price.


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Please stop saying stuff like this. We do not know that yet. We dont even have chipset drivers capable of HSA yet on this thing.
> 
> Also the 7600K would be a more than viable option if that's your price range. Stronger SR cores than a 4300, decent iGPU for HSA, Floating Point, and Physics in a few weeks, and comparable price.


Waiting for HSA to be implemented is a horrible reason to buy a lesser product. For the money a 6300 should be bought today


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## semperaye

Well, coming from an 4100 at 4.6ghz oc with an asus hd 7770 oc edition. I can tell you that so far my 7850k (now that I've got it almost stable lol) performs BETTER at 1080p for some reason. FYI, I'm stuck at 2000mhz on my nb freq as well, I'm going to continue tweaking a bit....I had to pull my mb battery again after trying 2100mhz, I dont know how I feel about going higher in voltage but I do see ppl using 1.45v vcore..


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Well, coming from an 4100 at 4.6ghz oc with an asus hd 7770 oc edition. I can tell you that so far my 7850k (now that I've got it almost stable lol) performs BETTER at 1080p for some reason. FYI, I'm stuck at 2000mhz on my nb freq as well, I'm going to continue tweaking a bit....I had to pull my mb battery again after trying 2100mhz, I dont know how I feel about going higher in voltage but I do see ppl using 1.45v vcore..


You all should colobarate and create a 7850K vs 4300 vs 6300 thread


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## jason387

Would love to. I can provide the fx 6300 benches. Just let me now.


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## semperaye

no matter how much voltage I add to the vcore i cant seem to get that ram to work at 2400mhz i get these little blue lines flickering until soon stuff starts to crash, the ram is at 1.45 volts should be plenty. I think im done tinkering for now before I blow something up...going to try to use it at 2100mhz ram but lower the timings.


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## yawa

Er most ram in that category is 1.65 volts. If you haven't give that a shot.

Hell 1.65 volts is what my XMP Profile sets itself to, it's not even an over clocked voltage.


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## semperaye

Well,

Here is what I've ended up with:

CPU 4.3 GHZ (TURBO OFF, APM AND C&Q ON) / +0.06V VCORE
NB FREQ 2000MHZ
IGPU 800MHZ / +0.018V NB
DOWNCLOCKED MY 2400MHZ RAM @2133MHZ (TIMINGS 9-11-10-28, THEY WHERE 10-12-12-28 FOR 2400) / DDR3 VOLTAGE 1.65

I'll play around with the igpu clock a little more later when more info comes out for suggested cpu : igpu clock/voltage ratios.

I've learned alot







ty


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## yawa

By chance did you update your Motherboard bios?

I had one available on Day One and it was what allowed my ram to operate at those frequencies in the first place.


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> no matter how much voltage I add to the vcore i cant seem to get that ram to work at 2400mhz i get these little blue lines flickering until soon stuff starts to crash, the ram is at 1.45 volts should be plenty. I think im done tinkering for now before I blow something up...going to try to use it at 2100mhz ram but lower the timings.


As said above most ram needs 1.6v+ for high speeds


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## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> As said above most ram needs 1.6v+ for high speeds


my fault typo. I did have it at 1.65v. my mb will not allow me to change the voltage without first loading the xmp profile.... its the f7 bios.


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## Mikecdm

The issue with high ram frequency is that it is shared with the igpu. The igpu runs same memory frequency as the system memory speed and in most cases it's too much for the imc to handle. This is my experience with the last 3 generations of apu. If one were to run only the cpu portion with a dedicated gpu, then memory speeds can clock much higher, but it becomes very difficult when trying to push everything all together. Now 1200mhz doesn't seem too far out of reach, it could just be tuning.


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## Stay Puft

Has anyone switched off the IGP and tried for max overclock?


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## yawa

Yes. Voltage wall at 4.5 Ghz on mine. A few others have hit this wall as well, though there have been people able to clock higher. Highest I've seen is 4.7 in one of the reviews posted by Altair in the other thread.

To answer your other question, I am currently running with a discrete GPU so the iGPU is essentially off. I did have it off intially and it did not make a difference with clocks at all.

It would be foolish to disable it fully going forward though considering when HSA drivers drop the iGPU will be handling most Physics and Floating Point stuff.

Hope that helps.


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## semperaye

What I want to know is how far you can push the cpu with the gpu near 1ghz, I dont wanna try it


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## yawa

I will certainly try this when I won't ruin my Nvidia driver install, but I can make the assumption that I shouldn't have many issues hitting 1 Ghz on it simply because people in reviews on air have done the same fairly easily.


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## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> What I want to know is how far you can push the cpu with the gpu near 1ghz, I dont wanna try it


honestly i think that 4.5 with ~1ghz gpu + 2400 memory would be pretty beast, and is pretty impressive in itself


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## Medusa666

I have done about two hours of benching in Unigine Heaven today, the settings are not relevant as they were constant, I had the resolution 900x1600 with medium settings, no AA. The reason was because 1080x1920 had too low FPS, most of the time below 10 fps, meaning that the measurable difference would be extremely small.

*Before I present my results, this is my highest stable settings so far, individually*
RAM - 2133 mhz with 1,5v and 9-11-10-30.
CPU - 4,3 ghz with 1,392v.
Igpu - 900 mhz with a 0,072v NB increase.
Northbridge - 2000 mhz with a 0,072v NB increase.

*The limits*
RAM - Tried, but have not been able to be stable above 2133 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
CPU - Have not tried higher than 4,3 ghz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
Igpu - Have not tried higher than 900 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
Northbridge - Have not tried higher than 2000 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent, and with an increase of RAM frequency.

*The results*
Interestingly enough, I had the best scores with two runs:

#1 CPU at 3,7 ghz 1,320v (stock) and iGPU at 720 mhz (stock speed) with NB at 2000 mhz and a 0,072v increase, score was 675 pts.

#2 CPU at 4,3 ghz, 1,392v and iGPU at 900 mhz with NB at 2000 mhz and 0,072v increase, score was 668 pts.

As a reference, with all stock it score was 593 pts.

Worst thing is, first run with all stock except the NB freq and voltage was the best score out of them all.

It seems that the NB frequency and, this is a guess, the RAM frequency, is superior when it comes to delivering overall GPU performance, this raises the question however the increased GPU frequency is needed at all.

Of course, this is only one benchmark, out of many, it might just be random, but I do not think so.

Personally, I will go for a balance, with a slight overlock on all the parts of the APU, to give a well rounded total.

*To Be Continued . . .*


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## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I have done about two hours of benching in Unigine Heaven today, the settings are not relevant as they were constant, I had the resolution 900x1600 with medium settings, no AA. The reason was because 1080x1920 had too low FPS, most of the time below 10 fps, meaning that the measurable difference would be extremely small.
> 
> *Before I present my results, this is my highest stable settings so far, individually*
> RAM - 2133 mhz with 1,5v and 9-11-10-30.
> CPU - 4,3 ghz with 1,392v.
> Igpu - 900 mhz with a 0,072v NB increase.
> Northbridge - 2000 mhz with a 0,072v NB increase.
> 
> *The limits*
> RAM - Tried, but have not been able to be stable above 2133 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
> CPU - Have not tried higher than 4,3 ghz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
> Igpu - Have not tried higher than 900 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent.
> Northbridge - Have not tried higher than 2000 mhz, most likely able to reach higher with some tinkering and hours spent, and with an increase of RAM frequency.
> 
> *The results*
> Interestingly enough, I had the best scores with two runs:
> 
> Thanx for this, very interesting
> 
> #1 CPU at 3,7 ghz 1,320v (stock) and iGPU at 720 mhz (stock speed) with NB at 2000 mhz and a 0,072v increase, score was 675 pts.
> 
> #2 CPU at 4,3 ghz, 1,392v and iGPU at 900 mhz with NB at 2000 mhz and 0,072v increase, score was 668 pts.
> 
> As a reference, with all stock it score was 593 pts.
> 
> Worst thing is, first run with all stock except the NB freq and voltage was the best score out of them all.
> 
> It seems that the NB frequency and, this is a guess, the RAM frequency, is superior when it comes to delivering overall GPU performance, this raises the question however the increased GPU frequency is needed at all.
> 
> Of course, this is only one benchmark, out of many, it might just be random, but I do not think so.
> 
> Personally, I will go for a balance, with a slight overlock on all the parts of the APU, to give a well rounded total.
> 
> *To Be Continued . . .*


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## JSTe

Many seem to be having problems running rated RAM at even 2400Mhz on Gigabyte boards specifically, mobo issue or just simply bad memory controllers...?


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## opty165

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JSTe*
> 
> Many seem to be having problems running rated RAM at even 2400Mhz on Gigabyte boards specifically, mobo issue or just simply bad memory controllers...?


I'm going to go with motherboard issue. I see AMD just released their Radeon R9 2400mhz RAM sticks on newegg. I'm wondering how they would perform on my Gigabyte board using the AMP profile vs the XMP profile of my current Gskill sniper 2400mhz.

Also to contribute to the thread here, I'm running my 7850K iGPU at 900mhz without any voltage increase. Still staying at stock CPU speed with turbo core enabled. My temps are around 75c where it begins to thermal throttle down to 3ghz with lower vcore. Now before someone jumps on me about the temps i'm getting, be aware I'm running thr 7850K in a very confined space. I'm far from done with my build or tests! As a result, I believe the thermal limit for our chips is somewhere in the 80c range according to AMD overdrive if I'm reading it correctly


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## Medusa666

When I installed AMD overdrive it says that it cannot find any supported hardware, and I downloaded the latest version from AMD.

Furthermore, I have increased the iGPU to 900 mhz with a 0,072v increase to NB, but thermally my APU seems unaffected, running very cool around 20-45C constantly, even during heavy load for hours.
The VRMs on the motherboard are also cool to touch, I have a fan directed at them, but still.

My stationary PC with a FX8350 at 4,7 ghz had an Asrock Extreme9 FX990 motherboard, and the VRMs got extremely hot to touch, so I find it really strange.

In another thread a member speculated about the iGPU currently being hardlocked at 720 mhz, despite changing in the BIOS,this would make sense given that I see no increase in benchmarks from 720 mhz to 900 mhz.


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> In another thread a member speculated about the iGPU currently being hardlocked at 720 mhz, despite changing in the BIOS,this would make sense given that I see no increase in benchmarks from 720 mhz to 900 mhz.


Gigabyte board?









Reviews show increases in 3Dmark and games with overclocked iGPU, although the gains are very, very low. Could it be the memory bandwidth bottleneck?


----------



## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JSTe*
> 
> Gigabyte board?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reviews show increases in 3Dmark and games with overclocked iGPU, although the gains are very, very low. Could it be the memory bandwidth bottleneck?


Gigabyte G1.sniper A88X rev3.0 with F7 bios.


----------



## JSTe

Reading about all these problems with Gigabyte boards, I'm glad I chose the Asrock ITX board over the Gigabyte one.

*knock on wood*


----------



## Medusa666

Today I have managed to get the PC stable enough for gaming with the following settings

RAM 2400 mhz
CPU 4,5 ghz
iGPU 1 ghz
NB 2000 mhz

APU maintains temp of 45-55c during benchmarking and heavy load, I need to continue running stability tests to verify.


----------



## Himo5

So far as I'm concerned, this is how close to - or far away from - the 5GHz Overclock Club Kaveri can get, but short of attempting a 55x92 OC that's where it's going to stay.


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> Today I have managed to get the PC stable enough for gaming with the following settings
> 
> RAM 2400 mhz
> CPU 4,5 ghz
> iGPU 1 ghz
> NB 2000 mhz
> 
> APU maintains temp of 45-55c during benchmarking and heavy load, I need to continue running stability tests to verify.


Wow. Medusa, may i have your voltage settings pls?


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> Today I have managed to get the PC stable enough for gaming with the following settings
> 
> RAM 2400 mhz
> CPU 4,5 ghz
> iGPU 1 ghz
> NB 2000 mhz
> 
> APU maintains temp of 45-55c during benchmarking and heavy load, I need to continue running stability tests to verify.


also, how in gods name did you get your ram stable!


----------



## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> also, how in gods name did you get your ram stable!


I loosened the timings enough and increased the voltage slightly.

Voltage settings are +0,090 for the CPU, and +0,072 for the NB, the RAM at 1,67v.


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I loosened the timings enough and increased the voltage slightly.
> 
> Voltage settings are +0,090 for the CPU, and +0,072 for the NB, the RAM at 1,67v.


The Kaveri overclock video posted he mentions timings don't matter only frequency matters.


----------



## semperaye

Ya I'm sure it doesn't matter as much. Techsydicate on youtube showed timings effecting richland. How do u know what timmingsto try?


----------



## yawa

Medusa I'm glad you got the ram at 2400 MHz stable as so many others were having issues.

That being said I pretty much topped out alongside you minus the iGPU clock. Though my voltages I think are a bit higher.

Keep trucking I'm interested in comparecomparing HSA benchesbenches with you when 13.35 is released.


----------



## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demonkev666*
> 
> The Kaveri overclock video posted he mentions timings don't matter only frequency matters.


He didn't back it up, but I'm sure he has his reasons for saying so.

I measure my changes with benchmarks and so on, so I know what is going on.


----------



## semperaye

Crazy my cpu temps stay about 30c at load while GPU seems like ice with my h55 and article silver 5...this thing runs cool


----------



## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Ya I'm sure it doesn't matter as much. Techsydicate on youtube showed timings effecting richland. How do u know what timmingsto try?


I start from the base, and the increase them one by one, except the 4th, I do 6-8 per stepping, then 1 by 1 until it is stable.

I recommend this blog post by Corsair.

http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/oc-guide-3-ram/


----------



## iRUSH

Good info so far. I can't wait to contribute.


----------



## semperaye

Just one more question. How to increase ram volts on this mb? There is a field for DDR volts and also dram. Do I just + the dram and leave DDR at default 1.5?


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> I start from the base, and the increase them one by one, except the 4th, I do 6-8 per stepping, then 1 by 1 until it is stable.
> 
> I recommend this blog post by Corsair.
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/oc-guide-3-ram/


Ok, so the profile ddr3 voltage is just when you load a profile...so I used the dram voltage instead and set to 1.67 just as you did, AND I GOT MY 2400MHZ RAM TO WORK AT THE ADVERTISED PROFILE SPEEDS 10-12-12-31 thanx!! Also have 4.4ghz cpu and 1ghz gpu using the same settings as you did. I'm not sure If i'm going to push for 4.5ghz on the cpu because I had some stability issues but now that I have the ram more stable maybe I can get the 4.5, we'll see how temps are first.


----------



## semperaye

Ok...so my bios is reading cpu temp of 52-55 degrees I think its wrong.

HWMonitor reads tmpin0 34c, tmpin1 -7c, tmpin2 around 14-29

I THINK that tmpin0 is the cpu temp, but I cant not confirm. what kind of oc temps are you guys getting at idol, and what are you using to measure the temps?


----------



## semperaye

Well...thermal margin says 59c -70c available to oc at idol so that cant be bad...right?


----------



## semperaye

I had to share this...

Just tried out these new settings and new ram speeds and WOW what a difference. I'm getting on average 45 fps in Diablo 3 maxed out settings 1080p, lowest ever was 35fps highest seems to be 50. temps still great according to overdrive, infact seems the higher the load the better my water cooler does at cooling not sure why. I bet I could get 4.5 ghz but I'll wait until I find another temp monitor to mess with. I am worried having 4.5ghz and having the ram voltage so high may be to much.


----------



## semperaye




----------



## Medusa666

AMD overdrive is not a trustworthy source when it comes to deciding the MAX thermal for a CPU or APU.

The FX series and Richland/Trinity had a soft limit told by AMD to be around 61-70c, for example.

I would take it easy until AMD actually confirms anything.


----------



## Medusa666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*


In the same benchmark, I only get 27,07 fps with equal settings, 4,5 ghz cpu, 1 ghz iGPU, 2400 mhz RAM, 2000 mhz NB.

I got windows 7 tho, you have windows 8.1?

However I twist and turn it, still 13 fps less, huge difference right there.


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Medusa666*
> 
> In the same benchmark, I only get 27,07 fps with equal settings, 4,5 ghz cpu, 1 ghz iGPU, 2400 mhz RAM, 2000 mhz NB.
> 
> I got windows 7 tho, you have windows 8.1?
> 
> However I twist and turn it, still 13 fps less, huge difference right there.


Yum I'm on windows 8.1 and am using beta driver 13.30-140108a-166899E

2400mhz ram timings are 10-12-12-31, not sure if that matters


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> So far as I'm concerned, this is how close to - or far away from - the 5GHz Overclock Club Kaveri can get, but short of attempting a 55x92 OC that's where it's going to stay.


Only 1 core enabled?


----------



## MacClipper

*HyperPi 32M*
16GB

*7700K*

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/Ma...5GHz_960_1200_32M_OKCopy_zps7de899b4.jpg.html

*7850K*

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/Ma...5GHz_960_1200_32M_OKCopy_zps29557980.jpg.html


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Only 1 core enabled?


With extreme LLC settings I got to 4900MHz with 2 cores enabled and voltage raised to +36(1.5375V->max.1.56V) before hitting the wall. The 1 Core @ 4998MHz shot needed voltage raised to +32(1.5125V->max.1.536V) but CPU-Z continues to record the fractional Bclk shortfall that prevents a validation at the target frequency and none of the permutations beyond that (55x91=5005,109x46=5014,44x114=5016,54x93=5022,47x107=5029,53x95=5035,48x105=5040,52x97=5044,49x103=5047) remained stable long enough to take a reading.

While I might experiment with disabling the IGPU as well I'm now convinced that even without load the A10-7850K is a strictly sub-5GHz part for anything except various exotic forms of cooling.

Time to turn to Prime95 to find out what it will do over Turbo under load.


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> With extreme LLC settings I got to 4900MHz with 2 cores enabled and voltage raised to +36(1.5375V->max.1.56V) before hitting the wall. The 1 Core @ 4998MHz shot needed voltage raised to +32(1.5125V->max.1.536V) but CPU-Z continues to record the fractional Bclk shortfall that prevents a validation at the target frequency and none of the permutations beyond that (55x91=5005,109x46=5014,44x114=5016,54x93=5022,47x107=5029,53x95=5035,48x105=5040,52x97=5044,49x103=5047) remained stable long enough to take a reading.
> 
> While I might experiment with disabling the IGPU as well I'm now convinced that even without load the A10-7850K is a strictly sub-5GHz part for anything except various exotic forms of cooling.
> 
> Time to turn to Prime95 to find out what it will do over Turbo under load.


I don't mind locking two cores and benching as a fx 4300 at 5.1Ghz against the 7850K with IGP Disabled to keep it fair. Lets see which would be a better buy.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> I don't mind locking two cores and benching as a fx 4300 at 5.1Ghz against the 7850K with IGP Disabled to keep it fair. Lets see which would be a better buy.


Without supposing I can unearth my Radeon 9250 PCI card and find a monitor it can drive I'd probably have to concede.


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Without supposing I can unearth my Radeon 9250 PCI card and find a monitor it can drive I'd probably have to concede.


With the igp enabled will it really hold you back?


----------



## semperaye

I've tried up the vcore by .100 and still can not reach 4.5 ghz right now i'm at 4.4 @.090v. would it be safe to go up from there? I saw one review of 4.7 ghz but that was like 1.50v...not sure if that is safe for every day oc.


----------



## semperaye

Has anyone got their chip to pass 30 degrees c? I feel like I could run this chip without a cooler


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Has anyone got their chip to pass 30 degrees c? I feel like I could run this chip without a cooler


Good info so far. I can't wait to contribute.

What program are you using to read temps?


----------



## MacClipper

*Kaveri mobo users heads up!*

Big bunch of new BIOS updates just came out today...
Latest BIOS Update
Quote:


> 1. Modify share memory rule.
> 2. Update EZOC table for 7700K and 7850K.
> 3. Improve FM2+ 7850K CPU frequency issue.


Enjoy


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Good info so far. I can't wait to contribute.
> 
> I'm using hwmonitor coretemp and overdrive. I think the bios reads temp margin and not actual temp but I'm not sure
> 
> What program are you using to read temps?


----------



## 4ChanGRep

If I can get 1ghz iGPU on stock voltage just how high can I push it with voltage increases? What is safe volts for APUs?


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> If I can get 1ghz iGPU on stock voltage just how high can I push it with voltage increases? What is safe volts for APUs?


wow, I'm not sure.


----------



## yawa

Eh, the CPU at 4.5 Ghz on 1.45 Volts my setup never gets passed 49C under water, so I can attest to it being a cool chip.

Just uninstalled my GTX 670 today and installed Catalyst 13.30. iGPU is pretty impressive. I'll see what I can get Overclocking.


----------



## MacClipper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> If I can get 1ghz iGPU on stock voltage just how high can I push it with voltage increases? What is safe volts for APUs?


Push push some more... looks like you've got a good chip.

*7850*










*7700K*


----------



## Diplomacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacClipper*
> 
> Push push some more... looks like you've got a good chip.
> 
> *7850*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *7700K*


OC'd mine to 4400mhz with +.09

Can you upload larger pictures?

How are you getting so much faster score with lower iGPU clock?


----------



## semperaye

It seems to take a lot more voltage from 4.4 to 4.5, not sure if its worth it....


----------



## semperaye

I'm still experiementing but for my system I think it's best to leave the clock at 4.4ghz with only a +90 to vcore, this should allow me to up the igpu to greater clocks while remaining very cool. Right now I'm at 1020mhz igpu testing and climbing.


----------



## Diplomacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> I'm still experiementing but for my system I think it's best to leave the clock at 4.4ghz with only a +90 to vcore, this should allow me to up the igpu to greater clocks while remaining very cool. Right now I'm at 1020mhz igpu testing and climbing.


Have you tried this beta bios that supposedly improves OC capability?

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4683#bios


----------



## semperaye

wow, nope. I'll try it.


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diplomacy*
> 
> Have you tried this beta bios that supposedly improves OC capability?
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4683#bios


HEY!!! It worked...the new bios and same settings now it boots at 4.5 ghz...I suggest others download f8a and try again!


----------



## semperaye

Interestingly, 4.5ghz even though it boots, was not stable in prime95. I up the vcore just pass 1.45 and its still not stable. 4.4ghz it is. I still think there may be a benefit to using the new bios, as before I was not even able to boot into windows at 4.5ghz.

How can I tell what voltage my gpu is at?


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Interestingly, 4.5ghz even though it boots, was not stable in prime95. I up the vcore just pass 1.45 and its still not stable. 4.4ghz it is. I still think there may be a benefit to using the new bios, as before I was not even able to boot into windows at 4.5ghz.
> 
> How can I tell what voltage my gpu is at?


Overdrive?

Or some third-party OC software like Afterburner might be able to give readings, even though it's not updated.


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> How can I tell what voltage my gpu is at?


iGPU Voltage on Gigabyte FM2+ boards is what you set the Northbridge to.


----------



## iRUSH

I haven't seen any benefit to overclocking the iGPU at all. Benching, or in games. Went from 720mhz to 1ghz and nothing changed except the fact that it said 1ghz lol.


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> I haven't seen any benefit to overclocking the iGPU at all. Benching, or in games. Went from 720mhz to 1ghz and nothing changed except the fact that it said 1ghz lol.


Seems like another great function of Gigabyte FM2+ mobos.

Did you OC from BIOS? Try software like Overdrive/Afterburner if you haven't.


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JSTe*
> 
> Seems like another great function of Gigabyte FM2+ mobos.
> 
> Did you OC from BIOS? Try software like Overdrive/Afterburner if you haven't.


I did it through the BIOS. I'll download and try afterburner now.


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> I did it through the BIOS. I'll download and try afterburner now.


You don't have Overdrive or you don't use CCC at all?


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> I haven't seen any benefit to overclocking the iGPU at all. Benching, or in games. Went from 720mhz to 1ghz and nothing changed except the fact that it said 1ghz lol.


The iGPU speed is locked on the A88XN-WIFI on the current F3 bios, that's why it's not showing any increases in performance atm.
You can set it to any value you like and software will read it as what you set it as, but it's locked at 720mhz.
Email gigabyte for the latest F4a bios to unlock it.

Afterburner and CCC have not yet been updated to support Kaveri iGPU's.


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> The iGPU speed is locked on the A88XN-WIFI on the current F3 bios, that's why it's not showing any increases in performance atm.
> You can set it to any value you like and software will read it as what you set it as, but it's locked at 720mhz.
> Email gigabyte for the latest F4a bios to unlock it.
> 
> Afterburner and CCC have not yet been updated to support Kaveri iGPU's.


Good to know

Does anyone here have the BIOS "F4a" for this board? I've never dealt with a motherboard manufacture requesting a BIOS that doesn't exist on their specific motherboard webpage.


----------



## 4ChanGRep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> The iGPU speed is locked on the A88XN-WIFI on the current F3 bios, that's why it's not showing any increases in performance atm.
> You can set it to any value you like and software will read it as what you set it as, but it's locked at 720mhz.
> Email gigabyte for the latest F4a bios to unlock it.
> 
> Afterburner and CCC have not yet been updated to support Kaveri iGPU's.


I use gigabyte A88x sniper and I have seen performance boosts by overclocking the iGPU.

I can also boot into windows at 1300mhz iGPU clock but can't peform benchs at that clock. What is the safest volt for NB?


----------



## 4ChanGRep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> If I can get 1ghz iGPU on stock voltage just how high can I push it with voltage increases? What is safe volts for APUs?




OK just stabilise to 1133MHz iGPU for some score gains.

http://valid.canardpc.com/fh08jg

I have problem. When I use iGPU this high speed my CPU mhz goes down to 3ghz at full load even though cool n quiet is disabled.

Pls help.


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> The iGPU speed is locked on the A88XN-WIFI on the current F3 bios, that's why it's not showing any increases in performance atm.
> You can set it to any value you like and software will read it as what you set it as, but it's locked at 720mhz.
> Email gigabyte for the latest F4a bios to unlock it.
> 
> Afterburner and CCC have not yet been updated to support Kaveri iGPU's.


I just contacted Gigabyte and there's nothing ready for them to send out yet. Do you have some inside hook-up?


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> 
> 
> OK just stabilise to 1133MHz iGPU for some score gains.
> 
> http://valid.canardpc.com/fh08jg
> 
> I have problem. When I use iGPU this high speed my CPU mhz goes down to 3ghz at full load even though cool n quiet is disabled.
> 
> Pls help.


it's throttling from temperatures.


----------



## 4ChanGRep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demonkev666*
> 
> it's throttling from temperatures.


My heatsink is cool to the touch even the copper pipes that make direct contact with IHS. Ambient is 14C in here. I think faulty sensor is triggering throttling when is not needed? Maybe AMD pulled an Intel with this chip and used thermal grease under IHS instead of fluxless solder?


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> My heatsink is cool to the touch even the copper pipes that make direct contact with IHS. Ambient is 14C in here. I think faulty sensor is triggering throttling when is not needed? Maybe AMD pulled an Intel with this chip and used *thermal grease under IHS instead of fluxless solder*?


heh they do.

is cool when the cpu loaded only ?

you could be on to something.


----------



## 4ChanGRep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demonkev666*
> 
> heh they do.
> 
> is cool when the cpu loaded only ?
> 
> you could be on to something.


It is cool all the time. Can't get accurate readings of temp from anywhere.


----------



## semperaye

I'm at 1020mhz igu @ +0.078v NB

What should I + to get to 1100mhz?

I'm trying to get steady 30fps in chivalry at 1080p all settings high with vsync off. I'm almost there but I think upping the igpu might help.


----------



## ChrisB17

Do you guys think the stock amd cooler is good for this cpu running stock speeds? Or will it throttle w\ turbo enabled?


----------



## Diplomacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisB17*
> 
> Do you guys think the stock amd cooler is good for this cpu running stock speeds? Or will it throttle w\ turbo enabled?


I don't know but I think something fishy is up with these new AMD chips. I just took the IHS off mine and yep there was a thermal pad (not paste) in between the chip and IHS. I took the pad out and filled the volume underneath the IHS completely with AS ceramique 2. My temps are down 20*C from before.


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Good to know
> 
> Does anyone here have the BIOS "F4a" for this board? I've never dealt with a motherboard manufacture requesting a BIOS that doesn't exist on their specific motherboard webpage.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25716235&postcount=746

There ya go, they released it to the public.


----------



## Legi0n

Gigabyte A88XN-WIFI quick Luxmark 2.0 bench on the new F4a bios (iGPU unlocked at last)
A8-7850K on stock cooler @ 4.0ghz
iGPU @ 900mhz

2x4gb Team Xtreme DDR3 2400 C10 @ 10, 12, 12, 31, 2T


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> Gigabyte A88XN-WIFI quick Luxmark 2.0 bench on the new F4a bios (iGPU unlocked at last)
> A8-7850K on stock cooler @ 4.0ghz
> iGPU @ 900mhz
> 
> 2x4gb Team Xtreme DDR3 2400 C10 @ 10, 12, 12, 31, 2T


Good work! I too just installed the F4a BIOS and I'm running 4.0ghz on the CPU and 1ghz on the GPU. Zero voltage adjustment necessary. Nice 400pt boost in 3d Mark 11.

I'm looking forward to my AXP 200R cooler next week so I can ditch the stocker lol.


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> I use gigabyte A88x sniper and I have seen performance boosts by overclocking the iGPU.
> 
> I can also boot into windows at 1300mhz iGPU clock but can't peform benchs at that clock. What is the safest volt for NB?


you could down to system information and click the diagram

the Show me what it says when you click the HT link button below the cpu ?

I'll show you


----------



## Centauri

Anybody else having the issue of the CPU dropping down to 3GHz after only a few mins of stressing? I'm running at stock CPU and OverDrive clocks, but I am overclocking the GPU. Not sure why that would be affecting the CPU though. Regardless, I've already disabled Cool'n'Quiet in the BIOS and it hasn't helped.

I've also been monitoring my temps in AIDA and nothing related to the CPU is even having a chance to get over 43c before things throttle.


----------



## iRUSH

Disable APM


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Disable APM


Where/how? The BIOS?


----------



## iRUSH

Yea the bios. Look for APM and disable it.


----------



## Boxol

Anyone testing WOW yet?


----------



## yawa

Nope.

Well I just installed my 290X and, well, this is odd...



For those who can't see AIDA 64 Used all my GCN cores. All of em on the 290X and all of em on the 7850K.

Wasn't expecting that before Catalyst 13.35


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Well I just installed my 290X and, well, this is odd...
> 
> 
> 
> For those who can't see AIDA 64 Used all my GCN cores. All of em on the 290X and all of em on the 7850K.
> 
> Wasn't expecting that before Catalyst 13.35


Wait! So does this mean you are Crossfire'n with a R9 290x??????


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Well I just installed my 290X and, well, this is odd...
> 
> 
> 
> For those who can't see AIDA 64 Used all my GCN cores. All of em on the 290X and all of em on the 7850K.
> 
> Wasn't expecting that before Catalyst 13.35


Try running it again but uncheck the IGP on side there.


----------



## iceman595

man i cant wait to see everybody's results

really hope this chip flys with just the igpu but also if possible semi-crossfire with 290/x


----------



## yawa

It isn't crossfire, it's HSA accelerated. I will run any and every which way after it is waterblocked later tonight.

What I'm assuming is happening here is that AIDA 64 must have drivers prebuilt to do what the 13.35 Catalyst drivers were supposed to unlock, as it detects both GPU's with the 13.30 Drivers, but when you start the test it runs both GPU's at the same time ( I'm assuming while sharing the 290X's 4GB of DDR 5 as well), the treats the four integer cores alone as the x86 CPU.

Was not expecting this at all.

Anyone else with a Kaveri and a GCN 1.1 core card please run this ASAP!


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> It isn't crossfire, it's HSA accelerated. I will run any and every which way after it is waterblocked later tonight.
> 
> What I'm assuming is happening here is that AIDA 64 must have drivers prebuilt to do what the 13.35 Catalyst drivers were supposed to unlock, as it detects both GPU's with the 13.30 Drivers, but when you start the test it runs both GPU's at the same time ( I'm assuming while sharing the 290X's 4GB of DDR 5 as well), the treats the four integer cores alone as the x86 CPU.
> 
> Was not expecting this at all.
> 
> Anyone else with a Kaveri and a GCN 1.1 core card please run this ASAP!


so what is the initial benefit of HSA? is it to help speed up the gpu?


----------



## yawa

Kind of. Basically when everything is coded properly, and let's say you are running my setup. You boot up a game or bench, and it goes like this....

CPU handles integer calculations.
iGPU handles physics/floating point calculations.
Regular GPUGPU handles Graphics/Frame rates

So let's say the new drivers make 3D Mark Firestrike HSA optimized, which they likely will not, but as an example let's say they do.

Everything would go as normal with discrete GPU and Kaveri x86 cores handling the first two tests. When you get to the first physics test, the x86 CPU goes " I suck at this" and sends the FP and Physics calculations to the 512 Shader units on the iGPU.

When the combined test hits, everything starts working, with the iGPU continuing the Physics and FP workload, with the x86 cores helping out, and the 290X doing everything else. Basically when stuff uses HSA properly no resource is used on anything it sucks at.

Make sense?

That is why nearly every review of Kaveri currently is at best incomplete and at worst biased beyond all reason. Now this is mostly AMD's fault for not even having proper HSA enabled drivers ready at the outset, but the rest can be blamed on lazy review sites basically running Cinebench, a few unoptimized older games, x264, and (if AMD is lucky, as it's open CL and HSA compliant ahead of schedule) AIDA 64. Hell the only review documented to be running an incomplete version of the 13.35 cat drivers is "Tom's Hardware", and even they say it's too early to call.

So judgment should be reserved at least until you see whatwhat the few of us using Kaveri we can do here with 13.35 and 14.1 upcoming drivers, and of course Mantle.


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Kind of. Basically when everything is coded properly, and let's say you are running my setup. You boot up a game or bench, and it goes like this....
> 
> CPU handles integer calculations.
> iGPU handles physics/floating point calculations.
> Regular GPUGPU handles Graphics/Frame rates
> 
> So let's say the new drivers make 3D Mark Firestrike HSA optimized.
> 
> Everything would go as normal with discrete GPU and Kaveri x86 cores handling the first two tests. When you get to the first physics test, the x86 CPU goes " I suck at this" and sends the FP and Physics calculations to the 512 Shader units on the iGPU.
> 
> When the combined test hits, everything starts working, with the iGPU continuing the Physics and FP workload, with the x86 cores helping out, and the 290X doing everything else. Basically when stuff uses HSA properly no resource is used on anything it sucks at.
> 
> Make sense?


so does that mean stuff will only run that way if its coded that way? or does it work like that in most programs and everyday use?


----------



## yawa

I would assume coded but since we don't even have initial drivers yet I can't tell you how easy it is to implement.

Basically if 13.35 comes out tomorrow, and 10 minutes later I post a 3D Mark Firestrike with a Physics score of 20,000+, we can assume most mainstream benches and games can get by doing very little to implement this.

Though keep in mind when HSA is implemented correctly, it is supposed to function no differently than a normal x86 CPU in the sense that it is just assigning resources. It is still just the CPU deciding what cores and how many to use for what. It is only that it has 512 shader units to help it make that decision.


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I would assume coded but since we don't even have initial drivers yet I can't tell you how easy it is to implement.
> 
> Basically if 13.35 comes out tomorrow, and 10 minutes later I post a 3D Mark Firestrike with a Physics score of 20,000+, we can assume most mainstream benches and games can get by doing very little to implement this.
> 
> Though keep in mind when HSA is implemented correctly, it is supposed to function no differently than a normal x86 CPU in the sense that it is just assigning resources. It is still just the CPU deciding what cores and how many to use for what. It is only that it has 512 shader units to help it make that decision.


Do run 3D Mark 11 as well so we can see the Physics score there too.


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> I would assume coded but since we don't even have initial drivers yet I can't tell you how easy it is to implement.
> 
> Basically if 13.35 comes out tomorrow, and 10 minutes later I post a 3D Mark Firestrike with a Physics score of 20,000+, we can assume most mainstream benches and games can get by doing very little to implement this.
> 
> Though keep in mind when HSA is implemented correctly, it is supposed to function no differently than a normal x86 CPU in the sense that it is just assigning resources. It is still just the CPU deciding what cores and how many to use for what. It is only that it has 512 shader units to help it make that decision.


thanks again for the explanation yawa


----------



## yawa

It's 4000 something right now in 3D Mark 11 ( HSA definitely not turned on there) and 5200 in Fire strike

When I get it properly installed I'll post a ton of benches.


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Yea the bios. Look for APM and disable it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Disable APM


I see no access to any APM setting in my BIOS (it also doesn't allow any voltage adjustments outside of the RAM); is there any other way I can disable APM from within the OS? OverDrive?


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I see no access to any APM setting in my BIOS (it also doesn't allow any voltage adjustments outside of the RAM); is there any other way I can disable APM from within the OS? OverDrive?


If the A88XM-E45 had it it would be in the BIOS under OC>CPU Features, but the only options listed there in the manual are AMD Cool'n Quiet and SVM Mode. I notice there is an AMD Turbo Core Technology option in the OC menu that can also be disabled so it may be that. On the Asus A88X-PRO the APM Mode option wasn't listed in the manual either but appears in operation under CPU Settings in the Advanced UEFI BIOS.


----------



## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I see no access to any APM setting in my BIOS (it also doesn't allow any voltage adjustments outside of the RAM); is there any other way I can disable APM from within the OS? OverDrive?


Either your missing something in the BIOS, MSI dropped the ball on that board or you'll need to wait for a BIOS update. Honestly, if your not seeing it, I'd get a different board.


----------



## yawa

So now that my loop is running roughly with two radiators, I went ahead and retried my overclocks with this and the new 2.70 bios for ASrock boards.

I got her to boot at 4.7Ghz. Sadly though...


If you can't read it, I'm using 1.584 Volts to do it. Also even though I have yet to crash and have run 3D Mark Firestrike my Physics scores have actually gone down..



I had done 5200+ before at 4.5 Ghz

and in 3D Mark 11...



Now keep in mind this may be a bios thing (I remember the 240 bios actually added performance from my first few benches on the original bios) but suffice to say I will look into it more tonight and tomorrow. Either I still have some new setting enabled that is throttling the CPU in the bios, or it's not really stable.

For those interested I've peaked at 52C so I'm not really sure why it would be throttling.

To prove my point I just set it back to 4.5 Ghz and rebenched Firestrike...


----------



## djohny24

Is there any posibility with 2666Mhz memory? i can only get 2544Mhz with 2400Mhz and 106 bclk in bios. If i set 107, windows bsod screen appears always.

My mobo is Asus A88Xm-Plus and Geil Potenza 11-13-13-35 1.65V.


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Is there any posibility with 2666Mhz memory? i can only get 2544Mhz with 2400Mhz and 106 bclk in bios. If i set 107, windows bsod screen appears always.
> 
> My mobo is Asus A88Xm-Plus and Geil Potenza 11-13-13-35 1.65V.


There's no 2666 in the memory frequency list? I would only touch bclk as a last resort, though that's just me.

Unless you already tried that?


----------



## djohny24

Yes, is supported but downgrade from 2666 to 2400Mhz (all memory with the same results).


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Yes, is supported but downgrade from 2666 to 2400Mhz (all memory with the same results).


Sounds like a BIOS issue if it just automatically sets you to 2400 no matter what.


----------



## djohny24

I can only set from 1066 to 2400Mhz in bios manually. If i choose DOCP (like XMP) always set 107 bclk and 2400Mhz memory multiplier.

And the system crash of course :S

All Asus mobos support up to 2400Mhz, and the memory support list confirms this.


----------



## JSTe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> I can only set from 1066 to 2400Mhz in bios manually. If i choose DOCP (like XMP) always set 107 bclk and 2400Mhz memory multiplier.
> 
> And the system crash of course :S
> 
> All Asus mobos support up to 2400Mhz, and the memory support list confirms this.


Outside of getting a different mobo, looks like you'll have to do with 2400 or whatever you can get using bclk as well.


----------



## GrrBeck

Lemon.


----------



## yawa

Good on you. We need more bodies attacking this thing. If you plan on putting her underwater, just know you will likely have to do something about the VRM's to prevent throttling at higher volts and clocks.


----------



## GrrBeck

Lemon.


----------



## Legi0n

Corsair Blog on Kaveri Memory speed impact

http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/kaveri-ddr-part1/


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> Corsair Blog on Kaveri Memory speed impact
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/kaveri-ddr-part1/


I REALLY wish they would of tested 2600 speed errrrr.

BUT I guess we know now that CAS timings ARE very important for Kaveri.

IS ASROCK the only MB that supports 2600 atm? Seems the others support up to 2400(OC). Maybe Biostar supports 2600(OC) too?

Can anyone confirm how well the 7850K runs with 2400 vs 2600 ram? Both with good good timings please. And is it also true that ASROCK and Biostar are the only boards that will run 2600(OC) Speeds atm?


----------



## spark9990

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Well I just installed my 290X and, well, this is odd...
> 
> For those who can't see AIDA 64 Used all my GCN cores. All of em on the 290X and all of em on the 7850K.
> 
> Wasn't expecting that before Catalyst 13.35


Is this limited to GCN 1.1 cards? 260x, 290 and 290x .

Can you test it with let say GCN 1.0 cards 7870, 7970 etc ?


----------



## nitrubbb

any tips how to OC iGPU? CPU side I just used asrock's F-stream which basically just upped multiplier to 43x I think.


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> If the A88XM-E45 had it it would be in the BIOS under OC>CPU Features, but the only options listed there in the manual are AMD Cool'n Quiet and SVM Mode. I notice there is an AMD Turbo Core Technology option in the OC menu that can also be disabled so it may be that. On the Asus A88X-PRO the APM Mode option wasn't listed in the manual either but appears in operation under CPU Settings in the Advanced UEFI BIOS.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Either your missing something in the BIOS, MSI dropped the ball on that board or you'll need to wait for a BIOS update. Honestly, if your not seeing it, I'd get a different board.


Alrighty, I've exchanged for a different motherboard - a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H, which has all of the options in the BIOS that the MSI did not. I'm even running the recently release F6a BIOS. But the CPU still throttles back to 3GHz after a minute or so of [email protected] I've disabled APM from within the BIOS, disabled TurboCore, and my temperatures look fine.

Any other ideas?


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> Alrighty, I've exchanged for a different motherboard - a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H, which has all of the options in the BIOS that the MSI did not. I'm even running the recently release F6a BIOS. But the CPU still throttles back to 3GHz after a minute or so of [email protected] I've disabled APM from within the BIOS, disabled TurboCore, and my temperatures look fine.
> 
> Any other ideas?


100% guess but could a PSU be the cause from lack of power?


----------



## djohny24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boxol*
> 
> I REALLY wish they would of tested 2600 speed errrrr.
> 
> BUT I guess we know now that CAS timings ARE very important for Kaveri.
> 
> IS ASROCK the only MB that supports 2600 atm? Seems the others support up to 2400(OC). Maybe Biostar supports 2600(OC) too?
> 
> Can anyone confirm how well the 7850K runs with 2400 vs 2600 ram? Both with good good timings please. And is it also true that ASROCK and Biostar are the only boards that will run 2600(OC) Speeds atm?


Mi highest memory frequency is 2544mhz with Bclk 106 and chosing "2400mhz" in bios.

But no more







. 107, 108...always crash. 111mhz bclk gives me 2666mhz Cl11 thay is my real frequency. Imposoble sure.

Flanker! We need you! Have u tried with higher memory than 2400?. Any advice?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spark9990*
> 
> Is this limited to GCN 1.1 cards? 260x, 290 and 290x .
> 
> Can you test it with let say GCN 1.0 cards 7870, 7970 etc ?


Who told you 7970 is GCN 1.0? It is GCN 1.1 from what I have been told.


----------



## os2wiz

For all interested in purchasing Kaveri, A10-7850 is selling for $129.99 at Micro Center. In store only.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Mi highest memory frequency is 2544mhz with Bclk 106 and chosing "2400mhz" in bios.
> 
> But no more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 107, 108...always crash. 111mhz bclk gives me 2666mhz Cl11 thay is my real frequency. Imposoble sure.
> 
> Flanker! We need you! Have u tried with higher memory than 2400?. Any advice?


Have you got Sata mode in BIOS set to IDE? The A88X chipset was issued with its AHCI/RAID controller unable to run with bclk over 106 - as reported in another place.


----------



## djohny24

Yup, like Llano and Fm1 sockets...


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4ChanGRep*
> 
> I have problem. When I use iGPU this high speed my CPU mhz goes down to 3ghz at full load even though cool n quiet is disabled.
> 
> Pls help.


My old 1055T would throttle to roughly 800mhz when the VRMs started to cook. Chip was cool, but motherboard couldn't handle the power draw.

Some guy charted the leakage of the new 28nm process - I gather he tweaked the voltage as low as he could get it:










If his graph is true then 4.4ghz is probably about where you'll all be stonewalled.

We'll have to wait for them to improve the 28nm process. The next revision/stepping might be better.

For now I'm most interested in how low you can get the power draw at roughly ~3.6-4ghz, while overclocking the GPU and running the memory stupidly fast.


----------



## Centauri

Alright, this is crazy; even if I set everything in the BIOS back to stock settings, my clock speed still throttles back to 3GHz after a few mins of [email protected] Second motherboard to do this to me.

What on earth could be the problem? Do I have a defective CPU somehow?


----------



## Sand3853

That seems really odd....2 boards doing the same thing would suggest to me that it's either a psu issue or cpu issue. I've got mine running at 4.5ghz and haven't seen any throttling issues, even when trying to push to 4.6/4.7.

These chips seem to run relatively cool, as I was well below thermal limits when trying to get 4.6 stable...and that's with pretty high volts.

Given that these chips do run cool, it makes me wonder if there might be a higher clocked/over clockable refresh later in the year


----------



## Centauri

I yanked a Thermaltake PSU out of my closet from my last build and did some testing with it; same problem. So the PSU isn't the issue.

And as I watch the GPU-Z sensors with CPU-Z open simultaneously, I see that the CPU speed drops to 3GHz the instant [email protected] gets the GPU up to full clock speed.


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> Alright, this is crazy; even if I set everything in the BIOS back to stock settings, my clock speed still throttles back to 3GHz after a few mins of [email protected] Second motherboard to do this to me.
> 
> What on earth could be the problem? Do I have a defective CPU somehow?


I had somewhat same problem. Task Manager showed CPU usage running at random speeds, jumping up and down to 1,7Ghz etc and PC started lagging a lot when I started downloading something.

I have asrock a88x fatality board. I loaded optimal OC settings from F-Stream @ 4.3Ghz and now it it fine and no weird dips to 1.7 area etc.

edit: found out that I had to choose "Performance" option from F-Stream instead of "Standard" and no more big dips in CPU frequency


----------



## wrtIAp

I also have the problem of CPU stuck at x30 multiplier, the moment igpu is running. It happens at stock settings, and anything else I've tried.
Btw, what voltages do you guys use when overclocking? This is totally new to me, and it's really annoying how my computer crashes until I get the voltages right.


----------



## Hajen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I yanked a Thermaltake PSU out of my closet from my last build and did some testing with it; same problem. So the PSU isn't the issue.
> 
> And as I watch the GPU-Z sensors with CPU-Z open simultaneously, I see that the CPU speed drops to 3GHz the instant [email protected] gets the GPU up to full clock speed.


I have the same problem. Using a Gigabyte A88XM-UD3H (Running F5 BIOS) and an A10-7850K. I have noticed the throttling down to exactly 3 GHz. However, it never throttles when I overclock using AMD Overdrive. I've tested this repeatedly and my OC is stable at 4.1GHz on stock voltage through AMD Overdrive. No throttling. Same OC through BIOS, I get throttling. I'm using LuxMark and Prime 95 for these tests.

Could be a BIOS issue, which would explain why switching motherboards didn't help any. Still, I would have expected more people to have issues if it was a BIOS issue. Hmmm.


----------



## yawa

Well it's definitely happening to me at high clocks ( it will throttle back to 4.5 GHz no matter what I can boot stable) no matter how good my temps are or how many fans I blow on the VRM's.

It is weird. Very weird. Either this is a bios issue, a chip set (or chip) limitation, or a hot bug (is there even such a thing?) safety feature to keep the chip and/or GPU from exploding.

Something I've wanted to point out BTW, that cat who ran benches in the hardware thread at 4.7 GHz must have been throttling. How do I know this? He had the exact same Cinebench scores as me when I was at 4.5 GHz even though he had 200Mhz on me.

Exact. We both got 384 multi. As a matter of fact I haven't seen anyone, break 390 at all. Another weird bug?

Suffice to say I am very interested to see what a revision/new stepping of this chip might bring. Extremely interested. Something is very weird with the chip and/or A88X chip set, but with out something to compare it to I can't find a solid answer. This goes far beyond our original conclusion of VRM throttling.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Well it's definitely happening to me at high clocks ( it will throttle back to 4.5 GHz no matter what I can boot stable) no matter how good my temps are or how many fans I blow on the VRM's.
> 
> It is weird. Very weird. Either this is a bios issue, a chip set (or chip) limitation, or a hot bug (is there even such a thing?) safety feature to keep the chip and/or GPU from exploding.
> 
> Something I've wanted to point out BTW, that cat who ran benches in the hardware thread at 4.7 GHz must have been throttling. How do I know this? He had the exact same Cinebench scores as me when I was at 4.5 GHz even though he had 200Mhz on me.
> 
> Exact. We both got 384 multi. As a matter of fact I haven't seen anyone, break 390 at all. Another weird bug?
> 
> Suffice to say I am very interested to see what a revision/new stepping of this chip might bring. Extremely interested. Something is very weird with the chip and/or A88X chip set, but with out something to compare it to I can't find a solid answer. This goes far beyond our original conclusion of VRM throttling.


It is NOT a bug, it is the limitation of the cpu. You will not get this chip above 4.5 GHZ stable. It is NOT Vishera, the the 28nm bulk process will not allow the same overclocking ability as Vishera. It is possible some refinements in a refresh of Kaveri may show some small OC improvements but do not expect anything much more.


----------



## Centauri

Doesn't explain why the rest of us can't even achieve stock clocks on GPU and CPU at load, though.

And I'm on the same board as you now, Hajen. Yay, an ally!







F6a didn't help either.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> Doesn't explain why the rest of us can't even achieve stock clocks on GPU and CPU at load, though.
> 
> And I'm on the same board as you now, Hajen. Yay, an ally!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F6a didn't help either.


You have the latest bios?? I can guarantee you it is not the cpu.

Too many others do not have this problem for it to be a defect in the manufacture of the cpu. I suggest you all do not have the latest bios or have your settings incorrect. Did you call up the motherboard manufacturer for technical support?? I would say the MSI motherboard is suspect. I never liked their AMD motherboards they nerver had LLC for the Vishera and bulldozer cpus. Their pricing is indicative of their manufacturing quality. MSI is good for video cards and sucks for AMD motherboards.
Next time don't cut cut corners with MSI and buy an Asus or Gigabyte motherboard, preferably the top of the line for FM2+. We are only talking about $111 for the best board. Asus A88X Pro is what I have.
A fellow ally or fellow victim/fool?


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You have the latest bios?? I can guarantee you it is not the cpu.
> 
> Too many others do not have this problem for it to be a defect in the manufacture of the cpu. I suggest you all do not have the latest bios or have your settings incorrect. Did you call up the motherboard manufacturer for technical support?? I would say the MSI motherboard is suspect. I never liked their AMD motherboards they nerver had LLC for the Vishera and bulldozer cpus. Their pricing is indicative of their manufacturing quality. MSI is good for video cards and sucks for AMD motherboards.
> Next time don't cut cut corners with MSI and buy an Asus or Gigabyte motherboard, preferably the top of the line for FM2+. We are only talking about $111 for the best board. Asus A88X Pro is what I have.
> A fellow ally or fellow victim/fool?


Thanks for the condescension, but I'm on a Gigabyte board now. Pretty sure Hajen made it clear that he is as well.

And we're on about as good of an mATX board as can be had.


----------



## os2wiz

First of all what is [email protected]? Never heard of it in my long life. Second microATX boards in my eyes are always suspect. They tend to lack quality of components and capability. This has not been reported on the ATX boards of ASUS nor on the ATX boards of Gigabyte as far as I know. This is not a chipset issue. I have the same A88X chipset and do NOT experience it. Think motherboard or psu. What power supply are you using? Cheap psus are not worth the trash liner they belong in.


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> First of all what is [email protected]?


Folding at Home - Protein folding, for science. It requires lots of CPU/GPU power.
-> http://folding.stanford.edu/


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kramy*
> 
> Folding at Home - Protein folding, for science. It requires lots of CPU/GPU power.
> -> http://folding.stanford.edu/


Good. Now if they ditch the uATX crap boards and cheap psus they will be set for success.


----------



## wrtIAp

Well I have the same problem and I'm using an ASROCK fm2a88x extreme4+. I'm also running [email protected], and the CPU multiplier gets stuck at x30 the moment igpu is on load. This happens at both stock settings and slightly overclocked, and I believe I have all the power options in BIOS turned off.
Centauri, does it happen only when you're running [email protected]? I don't really know any other way to get my GPU on full load and monitor the CPU frequency at the same time.


----------



## Krusher33

I can't seem to follow along this morning... what is the issue? You can't get over 4.5? Can't get over x30 multi? I have mine under water but I haven't played around with OC'ing yet because I'm getting 100 fps in BF4 so it's like... why bother, just play!

But I'll be happy to look at my bios and figure it out to compare.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Well I have the same problem and I'm using an ASROCK fm2a88x extreme4+. I'm also running [email protected], and the CPU multiplier gets stuck at x30 the moment igpu is on load. This happens at both stock settings and slightly overclocked, and I believe I have all the power options in BIOS turned off.
> Centauri, does it happen only when you're running [email protected]? I don't really know any other way to get my GPU on full load and monitor the CPU frequency at the same time.


I did an extensive Google search this phenomena occcurs when GPU temps reach 65 Celcius not limited to [email protected] It is essential to cool your gpus if you want to avoid this.


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Well I have the same problem and I'm using an ASROCK fm2a88x extreme4+. I'm also running [email protected], and the CPU multiplier gets stuck at x30 the moment igpu is on load. This happens at both stock settings and slightly overclocked, and I believe I have all the power options in BIOS turned off.
> Centauri, does it happen only when you're running [email protected]? I don't really know any other way to get my GPU on full load and monitor the CPU frequency at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> I did an extensive Google search this phenomena occcurs when GPU temps reach 65 Celcius not limited to [email protected] It is essential to cool your gpus if you want to avoid this.
Click to expand...

If not watercooling...

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=47090&vpn=NH-D14&manufacture=Noctua

I've seen those come on sale for $60 from time to time. Widely regarded as one of the best air coolers. It's the only one that can keep my CPU cool when all 8 cores are loaded during the summer.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kramy*
> 
> If not watercooling...
> 
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=47090&vpn=NH-D14&manufacture=Noctua
> 
> I've seen those come on sale for $60 from time to time. Widely regarded as one of the best air coolers. It's the only one that can keep my CPU cool when all 8 cores are loaded during the summer.


The Noctua you displayed is for cpus . I was talking strictly about gpu cooling. Your post was completely irrelevant to the discussion.


----------



## yawa

Woah slow down there Oswiz. You can guarantee me it's not the CPU?

K lemme let you in on something I've been hacking away at these past few days. I've been testing different clocks and voltages to see just where throttling becomes an issue. My chip at 4.4 Ghz gets a higher score and is less of a bottleneck in Firestrike than it is at 4.5Ghz. Getting a higher score is one thing mind you, but being less of a bottleneck is quite the other.

At 4.5 GHz my Graphics score was 11700ish, at 4.4Ghz it was 12500ish.

So say what you will about it being a bizarre issue but I can promise you this, something is off with these chips and it isn't just something to do with the bios.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> The Noctua you displayed is for cpus . I was talking strictly about gpu cooling. Your post was completely irrelevant to the discussion.


I think the guy is using the integrated graphics, so the NH-D14 suggestion is valid.


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> The Noctua you displayed is for cpus . I was talking strictly about gpu cooling. Your post was completely irrelevant to the discussion.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I did an extensive Google search this phenomena occcurs when GPU temps reach 65 Celcius not limited to [email protected] It is essential to cool your gpus if you want to avoid this.


You really have absolutely no idea what's going on in this thread, do you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Well I have the same problem and I'm using an ASROCK fm2a88x extreme4+. I'm also running [email protected], and the CPU multiplier gets stuck at x30 the moment igpu is on load. This happens at both stock settings and slightly overclocked, and I believe I have all the power options in BIOS turned off.
> Centauri, does it happen only when you're running [email protected]? I don't really know any other way to get my GPU on full load and monitor the CPU frequency at the same time.


AIDA64 as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> I can't seem to follow along this morning... what is the issue? You can't get over 4.5? Can't get over x30 multi?


Can't get over 30x. And it's not related to heat because it happens instantaneously upon simultaneous GPU and CPU load, it happens at stock settings and it happens with an overkill HSF.

When the IGP isn't under load, the CPU will do 37-40x depending on what the TurboCore is doing, but when the IGP hits its stride it will run solid at full clock but the CPU then takes a back seat and drops to 30x. So it isn't a matter of the CPU simply being incapable of running at full clock either.


----------



## Boxol

If your lookoing at the Noctua because you think Water cooling is to much take a look at "Cooler Master Seidon 120V" Its one of the cheaper Liquid coolers BUT is actually rated a little better than the Noctua when it comes to cooling.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103195

Its only $50 bucks!


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Woah slow down there Oswiz. You can guarantee me it's not the CPU?
> 
> K lemme let you in on something I've been hacking away at these past few days. I've been testing different clocks and voltages to see just where throttling becomes an issue. My chip at 4.4 Ghz gets a higher score and is less of a bottleneck in Firestrike than it is at 4.5Ghz. Getting a higher score is one thing mind you, but being less of a bottleneck is quite the other.
> 
> At 4.5 GHz my Graphics score was 11700ish, at 4.4Ghz it was 12500ish.
> 
> So say what you will about it being a bizarre issue but I can promise you this, something is off with these chips and it isn't just something to do with the bios.


People have claimed their cpus are in the 53 -55 Celcius range when the cpu throttles. It has nothing to do with cpu thermals directly, it has to do with the heat generated by the gpus. That is the common denominator.


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> People have claimed their cpus are in the 53 -55 Celcius range when the cpu throttles. It has nothing to do with cpu thermals directly, it has to do with the heat generated by the gpus. That is the common denominator.


Then how would you cool the GPU on these Kaveri chips? Wouldn't you still use a CPU cooler because they are all in one? What good would a GPU cooler do when you have no GPU?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> People have claimed their cpus are in the 53 -55 Celcius range when the cpu throttles. It has nothing to do with cpu thermals directly, it has to do with the heat generated by the gpus. That is the common denominator.[/quote
> 
> It has already been established that due to the 28nm bulk process this chip is NOT going to run well at above 4.4 GHZ. That is not defect or design flaw. It is the what the bulk process allows. At stock speed the throttling should not happen unless your gpus are running 65 Celsius or above. Have you determined your gpu temps???


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boxol*
> 
> Then how would you cool the GPU on these Kaveri chips? Wouldn't you still use a CPU cooler because they are all in one? What good would a GPU cooler do when you have no GPU?


Let's be precise. If someone says gpu they mean the vdeo card in the pci express expansion slot. The igpu is what is on chip. If this is hapening to people without a gpu at stock then there is an issue. I do not think the igpu is designed for the stress that folding puts on it. If you want to do folding, put in a video card preferably GCN 1.1 compatible that is a 290, 290x, or an R7 260x. Run in dual mode. The gpu will do the heavy load video tasks and the igpu will be concentrate on other compute tasks.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> You really have absolutely no idea what's going on in this thread, do you?
> AIDA64 as well.
> Can't get over 30x. And it's not related to heat because it happens instantaneously upon simultaneous GPU and CPU load, it happens at stock settings and it happens with an overkill HSF.
> 
> When the IGP isn't under load, the CPU will do 37-40x depending on what the TurboCore is doing, but when the IGP hits its stride it will run solid at full clock but the CPU then takes a back seat and drops to 30x. So it isn't a matter of the CPU simply being incapable of running at full clock either.


When people throw around terminology that is not proper it is easy to come away with the wrong impression. One thing I did pick up is that someone is using turbo core. Turn off the turbo core and it may reduce throttling. Now the Google search material I read said gpu not igpu, so now I believe they meant igpu, and that is why I came back with the wrong impression.


----------



## wrtIAp

So does anybody else have the issue of CPU stuck at x30 multiplier when using iGPU?
Or is there anyone who can actually get the CPU to run at higher than x30 when using iGPU? If you can, could you tell us your motherboard and settings?
Btw, I'm really noob at this, and I don't know how to get an accurate reading of temps.. MSI afterburner shows iGPU at -2*C during idle, and when CPU+iGPU is running at full, the heatsink doesn't really seem to get that hot either.
Thanks and sorry guys!


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> The Noctua you displayed is for cpus . I was talking strictly about gpu cooling. Your post was completely irrelevant to the discussion.


Pretty sure we're talking about 7850K's here that are throttling for some bizarre reason. Last time I checked they took a heatsink like the Noctua.


----------



## Demonkev666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> So does anybody else have the issue of CPU stuck at x30 multiplier when using iGPU?
> Or is there anyone who can actually get the CPU to run at higher than x30 when using iGPU? If you can, could you tell us your motherboard and settings?
> Btw, I'm really noob at this, and I don't know how to get an accurate reading of temps.. MSI afterburner shows iGPU at -2*C during idle, and when CPU+iGPU is running at full, the heatsink doesn't really seem to get that hot either.
> Thanks and sorry guys!


try AMD over drive for temps.


----------



## os2wiz

If the igpu is running too hot it would throttle the cpu , even if the cpu is not heavily overclocked. I would water cool the chip rather than air cooling it. You will get better results. Of course it will cost a little more for a good aio like Swiftech, but it would be well worth it.


----------



## JSTe

Or try delidding.

Has anyone here replaced the paste in their Kaveri with some CLU?


----------



## NaroonGTX

I haven't kept up with the whole thread, but the "throttling" might be the cTDP (configurable TDP) option that is a part of Kaveri, and was enabled in some of the newer BIOS revisions across the various board vendors. I don't know what they usually call it in the BIOS, but that option might be making the chip throttle down to remain at the chosen TDP target.


----------



## Centauri

I actually considered that a few nights ago. But upon checking the cTDP setting in the BIOS, it is indeed disabled.


----------



## amlett

Hi everyone.

I'm getting one of this next week for an itx setup with a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI. I'll be using for cooling a thermaright AXP-100.

From an old X58 rig, I've a couple of modules of 2GB Supertalent DDR3 1600mhz that I was able to push at 1600 7-7-7-19. how will they perform with kaveri?

Counting on the latencies, should I get new faster RAM at 2400mhz or ther performance gains won't be significant against 1600 and CL7...

frecuency vs latencies bussiness as usual doubts.

by the way, is it worth delid this APUs? I still have some coolaboratory Liquid Pro from the 3770K delid.


----------



## JSTe

We don't know, because no one cares about APU's so no tests are performed.

Or the parts are simply out of reach for some people that would test, like me.


----------



## SuperHiro

I was having issues with the processor throttling itself to 30x when I put load on the igpu. I run my 7850k with a 270 so I never noticed any throttling issues until I had all my monitoring software on while mining on the dgpu, igpu and boinc. What solved that problem for me was turning off APM in the bios settings. I also have turbo off and cTDP off. Right now I'm running 4.2ghz stock volts on a Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI with bios ver. F4a. The board and processor pushes until I hit a wall at 4.4ghz. I was able to boot at 4.5ghz but that was at 1.4 something volts and crashes under load.


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amlett*
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm getting one of this next week for an itx setup with a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI. I'll be using for cooling a thermaright AXP-100.
> 
> From an old X58 rig, I've a couple of modules of 2GB Supertalent DDR3 1600mhz that I was able to push at 1600 7-7-7-19. how will they perform with kaveri?
> 
> Counting on the latencies, should I get new faster RAM at 2400mhz or ther performance gains won't be significant against 1600 and CL7...
> 
> frecuency vs latencies bussiness as usual doubts.
> 
> by the way, is it worth delid this APUs? I still have some coolaboratory Liquid Pro from the 3770K delid.


From what I have seen from other reviews is that Speed > Latencies. That being said, Timings still do matter BUT this chip really shines as the speed goes up IF you plan to use the igpu.


----------



## amlett

Thanks for the rep. I'll get some fast ram at next upgrade.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amlett*
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm getting one of this next week for an itx setup with a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI. I'll be using for cooling a thermaright AXP-100.
> 
> From an old X58 rig, I've a couple of modules of 2GB Supertalent DDR3 1600mhz that I was able to push at 1600 7-7-7-19. how will they perform with kaveri?
> 
> Counting on the latencies, should I get new faster RAM at 2400mhz or ther performance gains won't be significant against 1600 and CL7...
> 
> frecuency vs latencies bussiness as usual doubts.
> 
> by the way, is it worth delid this APUs? I still have some coolaboratory Liquid Pro from the 3770K delid.


You should be able to keep the RAM you have now and just loosen the timings and push the frequency. I have a decent set of Crucial Ballistix Tracer 1600MHz which I can push to nearly 2300MHz CL9 on my Trinity system. I'm sure you could expect the same out of your kit since it has such tight timings at 1600MHz. My "lower end" Crucial dimms are actually more flexible than my G.Skill Ripjaws 2133MHz stuff.


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boxol*
> 
> If your lookoing at the Noctua because you think Water cooling is to much take a look at "Cooler Master Seidon 120V" Its one of the cheaper Liquid coolers BUT is actually rated a little better than the Noctua when it comes to cooling.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103195
> 
> Its only $50 bucks!


I've had self-contained water cooling units - I don't find them effective enough for constant use. You want a much larger loop if doing anything strenuous.

Initially the temps were great with the self-contained unit, and they even did the job really well for several hours... but if I left my PC going and crunching tons of numbers, it warmed up. After leaving my PC x264 encoding for a day and a half, my temps went up ~25C over initial load temps. (Ouch!)

Had to swap to the Noctua. It's not as cool, but it can't be overloaded either by long sessions where my CPU is pegged at 100%. The cooling power is more constant.

The main flaw with the cheaper self-contained units is they don't have a large enough rad or enough airflow for constant use.


----------



## amlett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farmer Boe*
> 
> You should be able to keep the RAM you have now and just loosen the timings and push the frequency. I have a decent set of Crucial Ballistix Tracer 1600MHz which I can push to nearly 2300MHz CL9 on my Trinity system. I'm sure you could expect the same out of your kit since it has such tight timings at 1600MHz. My "lower end" Crucial dimms are actually more flexible than my G.Skill Ripjaws 2133MHz stuff.


ok. I'll try to push the modules on frecuency relaxing the timings before getting anything...

thanks


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kramy*
> 
> I've had self-contained water cooling units - I don't find them effective enough for constant use. You want a much larger loop if doing anything strenuous.
> 
> Initially the temps were great with the self-contained unit, and they even did the job really well for several hours... but if I left my PC going and crunching tons of numbers, it warmed up. After leaving my PC x264 encoding for a day and a half, my temps went up ~25C over initial load temps. (Ouch!)
> 
> Had to swap to the Noctua. It's not as cool, but it can't be overloaded either by long sessions where my CPU is pegged at 100%. The cooling power is more constant.
> 
> The main flaw with the cheaper self-contained units is they don't have a large enough rad or enough airflow for constant use.[/quote
> 
> I know you are excluding the Swiftech AIO water coolers from that list of deficient cheap aio units. They are all about quality for a decent, though slightly more expensive price.


----------



## burticus

I know I'm a little late to this party... but just picked up an A10-7850k and Asus A55BM-E... Microcenter is practically giving these things away, $129 and that includes the mobo. It's a entry level micro atx board so probably not a king overclocker, but we'll see what happens. If I blow it up, it didn't cost me anything (and I will RMA it anyway, heh). Going to throw a Hyper 212+ on it and see what happens.

The FX6350 was the same price (also including mobo) but I thought this might be more fun to play with and I can dump my old video card on ebay and use the igpu (not really gaming, so meh). We'll see if I can fetch $20 for this old 8500GT.

OH and it came with a free Battlefield 4 code. Which will also probably hit ebay for $20-25.

My ram is some Corsair bargain brand ddr-1600... how important is high memory clock, except for the igpu to use when gaming?


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> My ram is some Corsair bargain brand ddr-1600... how important is high memory clock, except for the igpu to use when gaming?


Timings generally help the CPU most, and bandwidth generally helps the GPU the most.

Since you're not gaming... you can probably just tighten your timings the most possible at 1600mhz and you'll be okay.

But I would first push the memory to see where it caps out. If you can get 1700mhz+ out of those sticks, every little bit helps.


----------



## burticus

Ok the stock heatsink officially sucks (shocker). Bumped up to 4ghz and the thing hit 60c and got very choppy. Slapped on the Hyper 212+, temps much better, mid 30's. Using Asus Turbo V can bump up to multi x 44 (4.4ghz)... had to turn up the voltage profile and fan speed profile.

BUT

My intel burn test times are getting SLOWER the more I bump up the clock. Confused.

Can't figure out how to turn off turbo mode in the BIOS and there is no option in Turbo V.

45 multi (4.5ghz) locks when I hit apply.

Hmmm, maybe I should have got the FX6350 with mobo for 129..

Microcenter today put the FX8320 on sale today for $99 but that's chip only. Motherboard is +$70, out of my play budget right now.

Sorry I didn't read all 23 pages of this, if it was covered already.


----------



## Scorpion49

I picked up the 7850k at microcenter today as well, with the Gigabyte F2A88Xn-Wifi ITX board. Running it right now off of my 160XT PicoPSU and it works great. I ditched the stock HSF which had idle temps around 60*C for a Phenom II unit that has an 80mm SilenX yellow fan on it and it dropped my temps way down in addition to being very quiet.

One thing I did notice was that the Gigabyte board needs the newest F4a beta BIOS or the iGPU can't display 120hz out of the DL-DVI port, it gets all messed up. Going to be moving this to a Silverstone RVZ01 tomorrow and putting my Swiftech H220 on it so I'll see how it overclocks then.


----------



## Ivan TSI

So, CPU locks @3.0ghz wheN GPU is @ full load? Nobody found a work around?
I have been considering this apu for a small gaming rig ( just to play League of Legends @ 1440p, using hybrid cfx if needed), I can live with 4.4ghz max OC IF it doesn't underclock like this.


----------



## Centauri

Nope. I e-mailed Gigabyte as well with a pretty thorough description of the problem, and the several-days-later response has me thinking they didn't even read my e-mail before responding.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume APM Disable, though present, is not actually working.

Anyways, until the CPU throttling issue gets fixed, I'm content enough to see what can be squeezed from the IGP; anybody care to post their highest clocks voltages?

I'm stable at 1029MHz with a +0.096 vcore hike.


----------



## wrtIAp

It doesn't seem to be happening to everybody, or not that I can see anyway.
Btw LoL all settings max @1080 gets me ~50fps I think, don't really remember. iGPU at 900Mhz, and 2400Mhz ddr3 ram.
Btw, my multiplier now seems to be jumping around at x30 x35 x40 when running iGPU at full load, after I've disabled all the power related settings I could find in BIOS. And my CPU multiplier now stays at x40 even when idle... I have no idea what I'm doing


----------



## Ivan TSI

[email protected] 1080p,if adding a r7 250 it will get ~20fps increase that's ~70fps @1080p, that should be ~35fps @1440p


----------



## FunkZ

Found this thread on a search.

I've got the A10-7850K, Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4, 2x4Gb ADATA Black and a Tt Frio cooler.

Getting the CPU to 4.5Ghz was fairly easy. Disabled Turbo, started at 4.0Ghz @ 1.25v and increase from there. Took 1.275 to get 4.1, 1.3 to get 4.2, 1.35 for 4.3, 1.4 for 4.4 but for 4.5 had to use 1.45v and set LLC to Extreme. Possible 1.5v would have worked without the LLC change but on Extreme it overvolts instead of drooping so it's ~1.475-1.5v loaded and I stopped there. Possible with better cooling I would try higher but sounds like 4.5 may be near max anyway?

The memory is only XMP rated at 1600 9-9-9 but it is also easy to manually OC to Adata's standard 2133 settings of 10-11-11 @ 1.65v. There is a BIOS setting for 2400 which I got to work at 11-12-12 but @ 1.72v to make it stable. Have not tried more as 2400 is highest setting and would need to increase ref speed, plus voltage is high enough already.

I read a couple reviews where they got iGPU to 1020Mhz so figured I would try it, set NB LLC to Extreme, left voltage on Auto and boom, 1020. BUT benchmark scores actually were worse than at stock 720Mhz. Also tried 920 and 820 and scores progressively came back up, but still not as good as stock?!? Then I found beta F5c BIOS which states "improve APU OC performance" so flashed that and now 1020 actually gives better scores. Have not tried higher yet.

NB is also still stock 1800 but in reading through thread it looks like 2000 should be doable.

In using OCCT to test stability, I too saw CPU speed dipping under CPU/GPU load "Power Supply" test. But I also noticed OCCT reporting 850Mhz/2000Mhz frequency and 0.5v/1.8v (idle/load) at stock settings so I assumed OCCT was just not reading correctly. The only other loads I've done are full screen benchmarks so I've not confirmed with CPUZ or other but will definitely look into that to see if throttling is occurring.

Power-consumption at the wall I noted was 37W idle / 130W OCCT load at stock, up to 200W OCCT load at 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v.


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Found this thread on a search.
> 
> I've got the A10-7850K, Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4, 2x4Gb ADATA Black and a Tt Frio cooler.
> 
> Getting the CPU to 4.5Ghz was fairly easy. Disabled Turbo, started at 4.0Ghz @ 1.25v and increase from there. Took 1.275 to get 4.1, 1.3 to get 4.2, 1.35 for 4.3, 1.4 for 4.4 but for 4.5 had to use 1.45v and set LLC to Extreme. Possible 1.5v would have worked without the LLC change but on Extreme it overvolts instead of drooping so it's ~1.475-1.5v loaded and I stopped there. Possible with better cooling I would try higher but sounds like 4.5 may be near max anyway?
> 
> The memory is only XMP rated at 1600 9-9-9 but it is also easy to manually OC to Adata's standard 2133 settings of 10-11-11 @ 1.65v. There is a BIOS setting for 2400 which I got to work at 11-12-12 but @ 1.72v to make it stable. Have not tried more as 2400 is highest setting and would need to increase ref speed, plus voltage is high enough already.
> 
> I read a couple reviews where they got iGPU to 1020Mhz so figured I would try it, set NB LLC to Extreme, left voltage on Auto and boom, 1020. BUT benchmark scores actually were worse than at stock 720Mhz. Also tried 920 and 820 and scores progressively came back up, but still not as good as stock?!? Then I found beta F5c BIOS which states "improve APU OC performance" so flashed that and now 1020 actually gives better scores. Have not tried higher yet.
> 
> NB is also still stock 1800 but in reading through thread it looks like 2000 should be doable.
> 
> In using OCCT to test stability, I too saw CPU speed dipping under CPU/GPU load "Power Supply" test. But I also noticed OCCT reporting 850Mhz/2000Mhz frequency and 0.5v/1.8v (idle/load) at stock settings so I assumed OCCT was just not reading correctly. The only other loads I've done are full screen benchmarks so I've not confirmed with CPUZ or other but will definitely look into that to see if throttling is occurring.
> 
> Power-consumption at the wall I noted was 37W idle / 130W OCCT load at stock, up to 200W OCCT load at 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v.


I wonder if power is to much and thats why the CPU dips down when the iGPU is maxing out? Could a lower 12v rail make this happen?


----------



## FunkZ

Another BIOS setting introduced in the beta F5c for GA-F2A88X-UP4 is the cTDP, which has options for 45W and 65W, but I believe this defaults to either Auto or Disable. Seems to be for support of the upcoming A8-7600. But I noticed the dipping while still on F4 also so I don't believe that would cause it. I've also had CnQ, APM and C6 disabled.

Low +12v power sounds plausible, however this board uses a full 8-pin +12v CPU (336W max) connector and Gigabyte's Ultra Durable 5 Plus component design. Power supply is a SilverStone Strider Gold 650W with single 54A +12v rail rated for 650W (combined) continuous. Given the measured power of only 200W max at the outlet I would be really surprised if low +12v were the issue.

I know this has been reported before on AMD's APU's but I thought that function was disabled when Turbo was also disabled, however possibly AMD has made this feature non-disableable? Or maybe there will be a future BIOS option to turn this off. From what I've read it seems it is occurring only when the CPU/iGPU are fully loaded? At least that is what I observed using OCCT and did not seem to present a problem when benchmarking.


----------



## wrtIAp

Hm.. since so many people are actually getting this problem as well, I'm starting to think it's the CPU problem, as I've really tried to disable anything I can find about power consumption in BIOS.
Is it possible that CPU multiplier is set to be forced to x30 when iGPU on load, and is something we are not allowed to change?
Has anyone using the 7850k been able to get the CPU multiplier past x30 when iGPU on full load?


----------



## FunkZ

Well I tried overclocked and stock settings tonight with iGPU load, keeping both CPUZ and AMD Overdrive running while a windowed GPU benchmark Unigine Valley running. In both cases the CPU frequency dropped to 30x. In the stock configuration it seemed to bounce between 30x, 35x and 40x however in the overclocked 45x configuration it pretty much went to 30x and stayed there.

Prior I thought this was only caused because of a synthetic load at 100% but running a benchmark like Unigine causes the CPU freq. to drop also. Definitely something going on here that is not addressed in board BIOS.


----------



## burticus

I still cannot figure out in the Asus UEFI bios where the turbo option is so I can disable it. They must call it something funky. I have googled my brains out...

Doesn't look like my OC is going to be stable until I can turn that off.

I'm also trying to locate in the bios how much shared memory is allocated for video... I think it's defaulting to 512 and that is super wasteful overkill if I am not actively playing a game. I wish there was some dynamic way to do it in windows. Only have 4gb on that box and losing 512mb for no good reason kind of sucks.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> I still cannot figure out in the Asus UEFI bios where the turbo option is so I can disable it. They must call it something funky. I have googled my brains out...
> 
> Doesn't look like my OC is going to be stable until I can turn that off.
> 
> I'm also trying to locate in the bios how much shared memory is allocated for video... I think it's defaulting to 512 and that is super wasteful overkill if I am not actively playing a game. I wish there was some dynamic way to do it in windows. Only have 4gb on that box and losing 512mb for no good reason kind of sucks.


Advanced Menu>CPU Configuration>
AMD PowerNow function[Enabled->Disabled]
CPB Mode[Enabled->Disabled] {This is the Turbo Mode control}
C6 Mode[Enabled->Disabled]
APM Mode[Enabled->Disabled]

If you're feeling adventurous in this menu there are also the Core Levelling Mode options.

The UMA Frame Buffer Size option is in Advanced Menu>NB Configuration>.


----------



## Kramy

Have any of you tried undervolting at stock clocks? (If your boards support that; some of the Gigabyte ones can't drop the voltage yet?) Since GPU scores seem capped, I'm curious whether GPU scores go up if CPU load power consumption is lower. It'd be very ironic if optimal performance was achieved by getting as low a voltage as possible at 4ghz.


----------



## FunkZ

Just tried it with Turbo and all CPU features disabled, 4.0Ghz @ 1.25v
According to AMD the VID at this speed should be 1.325v
Firing up Valley benchmark, all 4 cores immediately drop to 3Ghz and stay there.
It shows the VID should be 1.125v at 3Ghz but of course it stays at 1.25v because I have it set at that.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Just tried it with Turbo and all CPU features disabled, 4.0Ghz @ 1.25v
> According to AMD the VID at this speed should be 1.325v
> Firing up Valley benchmark, all 4 cores immediately drop to 3Ghz and stay there.
> It shows the VID should be 1.125v at 3Ghz but of course it stays at 1.25v because I have it set at that.


I have not gotten to the point of stress yesting yet. I let AI3 set an overclock. It tried to boot me at 6.2 GHZ, which I had a chuckle from. I then lowered the clock to 4.2 GHZ with a 33% iGPU boost to 960GHZ, I did 48+ frames per second on cinebench 64 R 15.0. The cpu temps on hwinfo64 fluctuate wildly, so I think there is some bug with Kaveri and hwinfo64. By the way I did uninstall the AI3 overclock feature and a couple of other AI 3 programs that I felt might affect the sensor readings. I am waiting to buy a R9 290 card as soon as the bitcoin craze is over. i figure 3 months before the biggest and final crash will cause the insane demand for high-end AMD cards to dissipate. Then I foresee a 35-45% drop in 290 and 290X prices.

My vid is 1.325 volts. I upped the cpu voltage to 1.3475 to get to 4.2 GHZ


----------



## FunkZ

Here is the $10,000 question.

If we are all seeing a drop to 3Ghz on all cores when the iGPU is stressed, then overclocking the CPU cores should not make a bit of difference to GPU-based benchmarks right?

Just ran Valley back-to-back, first with CPU at all Auto settings, second time with all CPU features disabled, manually set to 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v
I ran it windowed at 1280x720 so I could watch both AMD Overdrive and CPUZ, both of which showed all cores at 3Ghz during the test.

On Auto I got 27.9 FPS and 1168 Score.
@ 4.5Ghz I got 29.7 FPS and 1241 Score.

If both runs were truly at only 3Ghz on the CPU there should be virtually no difference between the FPS/Scores, or minimal at best. But the overclocked CPU run had almost a 2FPS improvement.


----------



## Centauri

At this point, I think the most accurate way to gauge what the CPU cores are doing in a stress testing is with a voltage meter. And from measuring the CPU being stressed alone, to the GPU being stressed alone, the clock speed is without a doubt throttling.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Here is the $10,000 question.
> 
> If we are all seeing a drop to 3Ghz on all cores when the iGPU is stressed, then overclocking the CPU cores should not make a bit of difference to GPU-based benchmarks right?
> 
> Just ran Valley back-to-back, first with CPU at all Auto settings, second time with all CPU features disabled, manually set to 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v
> I ran it windowed at 1280x720 so I could watch both AMD Overdrive and CPUZ, both of which showed all cores at 3Ghz during the test.
> 
> On Auto I got 27.9 FPS and 1168 Score.
> @ 4.5Ghz I got 29.7 FPS and 1241 Score.
> 
> If both runs were truly at only 3Ghz on the CPU there should be virtually no difference between the FPS/Scores, or minimal at best. But the overclocked CPU run had almost a 2FPS improvement.


I will be stress testing tomorrow so I will let you know if I have the same experience. What has me puzzled is that in my bios , which is the latest for the Asus A88X PRO, it states cpu/nb speed should be 1:25 to 1:00 compared to memory speed. On the FX chips all it had to be is 1:1 or greater. Can anyone amplify on this change and why?? It means you would need a 2700 MHZ speed setting for cpu/nb if you run 2133 memory speed. That is because you can't fine tune memory speed as well on this board, your choices are in 100 mhz increments.
You are not going to be successful at setting a 2700mhz speed for cpu/nb. Something seems wrong with that ratio.


----------



## FunkZ

I can't even get 2000Mhz NB to work. Tried at 1.25v and 1.3v NB and it crashes at the desktop, not even under a load.


----------



## Nixem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I will be stress testing tomorrow so I will let you know if I have the same experience. What has me puzzled is that in my bios , which is the latest for the Asus A88X PRO, it states cpu/nb speed should be 1:25 to 1:00 compared to memory speed. On the FX chips all it had to be is 1:1 or greater. Can anyone amplify on this change and why?? It means you would need a 2700 MHZ speed setting for cpu/nb if you run 2133 memory speed. That is because you can't fine tune memory speed as well on this board, your choices are in 100 mhz increments.
> You are not going to be successful at setting a 2700mhz speed for cpu/nb. Something seems wrong with that ratio.


I just installed my 7850k with a88x pro. That confused me too, so I ended up ignoring it.

Right now I am semi stable 4.5 Ghz @ 1.4375v, 800 graphics, 2000nb @1.2v, 2133 ram @ 1.6v and 11-13-13-31 timing (cant get it to the 2400 yet).

I am in the middle of the entire thing, and haven't been able to optimize anything yet, but it is super pi stable. What is throwing me off as well is the temperatures. I am using HWinfo but still im not sure where to get more accurate readings.

Edit: bad at typing numbers


----------



## burticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Advanced Menu>CPU Configuration>
> AMD PowerNow function[Enabled->Disabled]
> CPB Mode[Enabled->Disabled] {This is the Turbo Mode control}
> C6 Mode[Enabled->Disabled]
> APM Mode[Enabled->Disabled]
> 
> If you're feeling adventurous in this menu there are also the Core Levelling Mode options.
> 
> The UMA Frame Buffer Size option is in Advanced Menu>NB Configuration>.


THANK YOU!

Turned turbo off and downed the video mem to 128mb.

I have hit a wall at 4.3ghz, have to turn cpu load line level up to high. Passing IBT stresses, max temp is 42c so far (using Hyper 212+). I cannot get 4.4ghz stable even setting every voltage option in TurboV to MAX. Desktop is ok but it freezes and locks within seconds of IBT.

I blame the motherboard. Hey, it was free. Asus A55BM-E. Can't complain really, a 600mhz overclock on $40 motherboard is nothing to sneeze at.

I know using TurboV is kinda cheesy, but I don't really feel the need to spend another couple days screwing with incremental bios settings to gain another 100mhz, considering this motherboard is what it is (cheap).

Update - after about an hour of IBT runs the system locked up. Last cpu temp shown was 43c... not a huge deal. I'm playing with the voltages a little but will probably go back to 4.2ghz for stability testing.

I have a feeling with a decent motherboard these things could ride 4.5ghz stable...

Still, hard to complain about a $129 cpu/motherboard combo "ONLY" hitting 4.2ghz, a 500mhz overclock.


----------



## burticus

Just for grins I ran a 5 round Intelburntest comparison on the Kaveri A10-7850k at 4.2ghz vs my "old" Phenom II Deneb 955 @ 4.2ghz. The results made me sad.

955 completed in 165.49 seconds with gflops speeds all in the 49's. The A10... didn't. 5 round run took 241.05 with gflops all in the 12's.

I should have just bought another 955 or 965 from ebay and clocked it up.


----------



## Ivan TSI

Apu is designed to have a balance between CPU and igpu its not a performance part so it will not beat a P2


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> THANK YOU!
> 
> Turned turbo off and downed the video mem to 128mb.
> 
> I have hit a wall at 4.3ghz, have to turn cpu load line level up to high. Passing IBT stresses, max temp is 42c so far (using Hyper 212+). I cannot get 4.4ghz stable even setting every voltage option in TurboV to MAX. Desktop is ok but it freezes and locks within seconds of IBT.
> 
> I blame the motherboard. Hey, it was free. Asus A55BM-E. Can't complain really, a 600mhz overclock on $40 motherboard is nothing to sneeze at.
> 
> I know using TurboV is kinda cheesy, but I don't really feel the need to spend another couple days screwing with incremental bios settings to gain another 100mhz, considering this motherboard is what it is (cheap).
> 
> Update - after about an hour of IBT runs the system locked up. Last cpu temp shown was 43c... not a huge deal. I'm playing with the voltages a little but will probably go back to 4.2ghz for stability testing.
> 
> I have a feeling with a decent motherboard these things could ride 4.5ghz stable...
> 
> Still, hard to complain about a $129 cpu/motherboard combo "ONLY" hitting 4.2ghz, a 500mhz overclock.


it does not matter if you get 6.0ghz, if the CPU is going to under clock to 3.0ghz when the igpu gets load the overclock is useless


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixem*
> 
> I just installed my 7850k with a88x pro. That confused me too, so I ended up ignoring it.
> 
> Right now I am semi stable 4.5 Ghz @ 1.4375v, 800 graphics, 2000nb @1.2v, 2133 ram @ 1.6v and 11-13-13-31 timing (cant get it to the 2400 yet).
> 
> I am in the middle of the entire thing, and haven't been able to optimize anything yet, but it is super pi stable. What is throwing me off as well is the temperatures. I am using HWinfo but still im not sure where to get more accurate readings.
> 
> Edit: bad at typing numbers


please report your CPU speed WITH the igpu @ full load


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> Just for grins I ran a 5 round Intelburntest comparison on the Kaveri A10-7850k at 4.2ghz vs my "old" Phenom II Deneb 955 @ 4.2ghz. The results made me sad.
> 
> 955 completed in 165.49 seconds with gflops speeds all in the 49's. The A10... didn't. 5 round run took 241.05 with gflops all in the 12's.
> 
> I should have just bought another 955 or 965 from ebay and clocked it up.


Please bear in mind, however, that you only have 4+1 Power Phase on the A55BM-E and no heatsinks and you are running a 95TDP processor off it. It would be a good idea to put a fan on those mosfets - and a heatsink as well, if possible - before attempting an overclock - and especially before playing with the LLC controls. Also remember that the standard overclock for the A10-7850K, as it has been set up, is 4000MHz and you are already 200MHz over that.

Thinking about the choked condition in which Kaveri seems to have been brought to market, I was having a look at an old Llano destroyed by a water cooling leak, and wondering - thinking back to the days of Thoroughbred and Barton - which of those switches on Kaveri would have to be 'molested' with to perk it up a bit.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixem*
> 
> I just installed my 7850k with a88x pro. That confused me too, so I ended up ignoring it.
> 
> Right now I am semi stable 4.5 Ghz @ 1.4375v, 800 graphics, 2000nb @1.2v, 2133 ram @ 1.6v and 11-13-13-31 timing (cant get it to the 2400 yet).
> 
> I am in the middle of the entire thing, and haven't been able to optimize anything yet, but it is super pi stable. What is throwing me off as well is the temperatures. I am using HWinfo but still im not sure where to get more accurate readings.
> 
> Edit: bad at typing numbers


You will never be stable if you have memory speed faster than cpu-nb speed. Wake up and set the nb equal or greater than memory speed.


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You will never be stable if you have memory speed faster than cpu-nb speed. Wake up and set the nb equal or greater than memory speed.


That's not the way it works with FM2+.
Clocking ram higher than the Northbridge speed has no impact on system stability.

People Overclocking the platform tend to run the Northbridge at 1900 or 2000mhz.
Ram is platform limited to 2400mhz max (on most boards) with 100fsb
You can go higher on the ram upping the fsb clocks, but then you run into the AHCI bug at 103-105 fsb.


----------



## burticus

I gave up and set everything back to default and turned Turbo back on. No sense trying to blow my stuff up if I'm only getting 200mhz over turbo.

Since I primarily use this box for video encoding.... I may have to rethink my purchase. Might have to ebay and go a different route (I'm not paying 20% restock fee to Microcenter, thank you very much).


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> That's not the way it works with FM2+.
> Clocking ram higher than the Northbridge speed has no impact on system stability.
> 
> People Overclocking the platform tend to run the Northbridge at 1900 or 2000mhz.
> Ram is platform limited to 2400mhz max (on most boards) with 100fsb
> You can go higher on the ram upping the fsb clocks, but then you run into the AHCI bug at 103-105 fsb.


Where did you get that from. I have not heard that from Asus or AMD. Show me a a mutually trusted source that verifies in any way that is ok for nb speed to be sloweer than memory speed. I have not even seen that stretch on any of the steamroller threads. You have some proving before I accept your word on that. I think your making an assumption that has no facts behind it.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> I gave up and set everything back to default and turned Turbo back on. No sense trying to blow my stuff up if I'm only getting 200mhz over turbo.
> 
> Since I primarily use this box for video encoding.... I may have to rethink my purchase. Might have to ebay and go a different route (I'm not paying 20% restock fee to Microcenter, thank you very much).


Why don't you wait until there is some official word regarding throttling. Not every one by a long shot has claimed they are experiencing it.


----------



## FunkZ

If the stock NB speed is 1800Mhz but Kaveri officially supports DDR3-2133 then why does NB have to be higher than memory?

I don't think the down-clocking is anything new, it was present in previous generation APU's, but what seems to be new is that disabling Turbo mode (which reportedly worked in the past) doesn't seem to prevent the throttling with Kaveri.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130401171759_AMD_A_Series_Trinity_Accelerated_Processing_Units_Can_Drop_Clock_Speed_Under_High_Loads.html

Hrm, here's a question. Is it possible that software can "show" a Turbo down-clock but when Turbo is disabled in the BIOS it isn't actually performing the drop? This would explain the Turbo-disabled overclock yielding an improvement in performance, when CPUZ, Overdrive, etc. showing a "down-clock".


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> If the stock NB speed is 1800Mhz but Kaveri officially supports DDR3-2133 then why does NB have to be higher than memory?


Because that has been the rule with all bulldozer derivatives including APUs. There is no credible reason you have given to in midstream negate the convention. I'm all ears for a reasonable explanation.


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Where did you get that from. I have not heard that from Asus or AMD. Show me a a mutually trusted source that verifies in any way that is ok for nb speed to be sloweer than memory speed. I have not even seen that stretch on any of the steamroller threads. You have some proving before I accept your word on that. I think your making an assumption that has no facts behind it.


You have no idea what you're doing with the platform.
I've clocked APU's since my first Llano setup.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288328-Gigabyte-f2a88x-up4-amd-a10-7850k-review

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288356-ASRock-FM2A88X-Extreme6-A10-7700K-observations

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288285-***-AMD-Kaveri-Asus-A88X-PRO-preview****

Now I'd suggest you stop spreading your ignorance through the rest of the thread and stop misinforming people!


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> You have no idea what you're doing with the platform.
> I've clocked APU's since my first Llano setup.
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288328-Gigabyte-f2a88x-up4-amd-a10-7850k-review
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288356-ASRock-FM2A88X-Extreme6-A10-7700K-observations
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288285-***-AMD-Kaveri-Asus-A88X-PRO-preview****
> 
> Now I'd suggest you stop spreading your ignorance through the rest of the thread and stop misinforming people!


And a bird up your bush too. I read through the bloated references you posted and I only see one persons remarks that I can respect.
I did see Flank3r post about limitations in nb settings, but we do not know a specified ratio of nb to memory speed or whether it is totally irrelevant that is my point. I would like to see some comments from Asus engineers on a forum. THEY had recommendations with rationales for both Bulldozer and Vishera on all bios settings. It is useul to have a guide to base your overclocking that is authoritative.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Ever since FM1 where the NB and its functions were integrated directly onto the die itself rather than being on the MOBO, the NB speeds and RAM speeds are independent of each other. There is no chance of system instability with having the RAM clocks higher than the NB speed, whether you're on FM1, FM2 or FM2+.

You can see several FMx overclock videos on youtube to clarify this.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Ever since FM1 where the NB and its functions were integrated directly onto the die itself rather than being on the MOBO, the NB speeds and RAM speeds are independent of each other. There is no chance of system instability with having the RAM clocks higher than the NB speed, whether you're on FM1, FM2 or FM2+.
> 
> You can see several FMx overclock videos on youtube to clarify this.


OK. Now I have an explanation that makes sense. Thanks. So the Asus A88X Pro bios was wrong to suggest a 1:1.25 ratio of memory speed to NB speed. It did seem strange when I saw it in the bios.


----------



## Centauri

It's funny to see how ardent you are about being incorrect until you finally decide that somebody's explanation is more worth your consideration than all of the explanations provided prior.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> It's funny to see how ardent you are about being incorrect until you finally decide that somebody's explanation is more worth your consideration than all of the explanations provided prior.


I was obviously incorrect about the relationship of nb frequency to memory frequency. What steered me that way was the my FX experience and the incorrect comment in the Asus A88X Pro bios that stated there should be a 1: 1.25 ratio maintained between memory frequency and north bridge frequency. You were obviously correct, yet you failed to communicate to me any detailed explanation. I know you not, but I do know Naroon. He explains the why of things and is less judgmental than you. So we both have lessons to learn from the experience. No point in bearing a grudge. Let's both bury the hatchets.


----------



## burticus

Geez guys can't we all just get along? LOL


----------



## Krusher33

I agree with Os. Naroon provided the best explanation where as the others... I shrugged off.


----------



## mdocod

uh, 2133MT/s = 1,066MHZ.

You'd have to hit 3600MT/s on the memory bus before the memory speed would exceed the stock NB speed.


----------



## semperaye

Interestingly after my GB released a MB beta bios with "improved OC capability" it seems they had added support for my ram and the xmp profile now works. Before in order to get 2400mhz i had to increase the dram to 1.690v now its working better at the default 1.65v and doesn't crash...it crashes at 1.69v for some reason. Got 48.62 in Open GL with cpu 4.4ghz and igpu at 1ghz with the xmp 2400mhz. It seems like if I try to do better then 4.4 on the cpu I have to raise the voltage WAY TO HIGH for what it is worth, and anything over 1ghz I get studding. I would like to try to get the igpu higher but I'm not sure how much voltage is ok to through at it, I have the nb at 2000mhz. What are ppl using for nb volts, those who have exceeded 1ghz everyday clock.


----------



## Centauri

Okay, I'm officially confused now.

With the IGP overclocked to 1029MHz but the CPU at stock and with turbo core disabled, I am pulling around 120 watts from the wall with [email protected] even after the CPU supposedly throttles to 3GHz from 3.7GHz. Yet if I set for 4300MHz with a voltage of 1.36v, I am now pulling just shy of 150 watts from the wall... after the CPU supposedly throttles to 3GHz.

Seems odd, does it not? If the CPU is *actually* throttling to 3GHz under IGP stress, it shouldn't matter if I set the multiplier and voltage both to infinity and beyond; 3GHz will draw what 3GHz will draw. Especially when 3GHz with this architecture puts us firmly in laptop-level-power-sipping territory.

I'm now wondering if there's simply some sort of miscommunication going on between the BIOS and Windows or something otherwise software-related.


----------



## FunkZ

That's what I suggested, that software is reading a Turbo multiplier that isn't actually being used. Would certainly explain your increased power consumption and my increased benchmark performance when overclocked.


----------



## os2wiz

Guys, I just received and installed the MSI R7 260X overclock edition in my A10-7850k computer with the Asus A88X Pro motherboard.. I am pretty sure the driver for dual graphics for this card has not been issued, butI still have a couple of questions. In dual graphics with the discreet card and the igpu does one connect the hdmi to the discreet card or to the igpu only??? Second question is there a bios setting to enable dual graphics with the igpu and what would I have to do with the catalyst control center. Please answer all the questions if possible so I have an overall idea on how to set it up. Thank you. [/I]


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Guys, I just received and installed the MSI R7 260X overclock edition in my A10-7850k computer with the Asus A88X Pro motherboard.. I am pretty sure the driver for dual graphics for this card has not been issued, butI still have a couple of questions. In dual graphics with the discreet card and the igpu does one connect the hdmi to the discreet card or to the igpu only??? Second question is there a bios setting to enable dual graphics with the igpu and what would I have to do with the catalyst control center. Please answer all the questions if possible so I have an overall idea on how to set it up. Thank you. [/I]


For Dual Graphics, you need to connect the HDMI / VGA / DVI plug into the discreet GPU, and then in the CCC (Catalyst Control Center) there is an option that lets you toggle Dual Graphics on or off.

Some BIOS'es have options to disable/enable the iGPU, but different companies have different names for it (and bizarrely, some completely lack the option from what I've seen in the past!), so you'll have to dig around in the BIOS to see what it's called or if it's there.

The way that the 260x is setup, what with the XDMA block, the TrueAudio, and it being GCN 1.1, it seems like the perfect match for DG with Kaveri. I don't know for sure, but I think the currently-available drivers are in their infancy, and 260x support will be added later.


----------



## J0nDaFr3aK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> For Dual Graphics, you need to connect the HDMI / VGA / DVI plug into the discreet GPU, and then in the CCC (Catalyst Control Center) there is an option that lets you toggle Dual Graphics on or off.
> 
> Some BIOS'es have options to disable/enable the iGPU, but different companies have different names for it (and bizarrely, some completely lack the option from what I've seen in the past!), so you'll have to dig around in the BIOS to see what it's called or if it's there.
> 
> The way that the 260x is setup, what with the XDMA block, the TrueAudio, and it being GCN 1.1, it seems like the perfect match for DG with Kaveri. I don't know for sure, but I think the currently-available drivers are in their infancy, and 260x support will be added later.


That's interesting. I have read a bit here and there throughout the thread so this may already have been discussed, but I thought the r7 250 was the best card you could crossfire with a 7850k.

I currently own a 6800k with a asrock fm2a85x-itx but I want to upgrade to a 7850k with a asrock fm2a88x extreme6+ in the near future. Do you think a 7850k+260x would be a better match? How better would it run compared to a 7850k+r7 250?


----------



## NaroonGTX

Currently the R7-250 is the highest card the 7850k will xfire with. I don't know if this is how it will always be, but my personal speculation seems to point towards 250x and 260x support in the future. If not, then I suppose the XDMA support was added for smoother Asynchronous Xifre (using the APU's iGPU as a dedicated co-processor for physics and such, while the discreet GPU handles the main rendering in games) and better Xfire via the PCIe slots. We'll just have to wait and see for now.

Either way, I would suggest the 7850k + 260x combo just because the 260x will be much faster than the 250 is, and you could take advantage of the aforementioned Async Xfire for titles that will support it down the road.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *J0nDaFr3aK*
> 
> That's interesting. I have read a bit here and there throughout the thread so this may already have been discussed, but I thought the r7 250 was the best card you could crossfire with a 7850k.
> 
> I currently own a 6800k with a asrock fm2a85x-itx but I want to upgrade to a 7850k with a asrock fm2a88x extreme6+ in the near future. Do you think a 7850k+260x would be a better match? How better would it run compared to a 7850k+r7 250?


When new drivers support dual configuration with a 260X it will be a 25 to 30 % improvement over a 250. By the way I have a A10-7850k and Asrock Extreme 6+ A88X APU-MOTHERBOARD combo on auction on Ebay right now. Got it shipped to me from AMD, but I already had purchased another with the Asus A88X Pro so I put it up for sale. The auction expires in 3 days.


----------



## Boxol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *J0nDaFr3aK*
> 
> That's interesting. I have read a bit here and there throughout the thread so this may already have been discussed, but I thought the r7 250 was the best card you could crossfire with a 7850k.
> 
> I currently own a 6800k with a asrock fm2a85x-itx but I want to upgrade to a 7850k with a asrock fm2a88x extreme6+ in the near future. Do you think a 7850k+260x would be a better match? How better would it run compared to a 7850k+r7 250?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Here is the $10,000 question.
> 
> If we are all seeing a drop to 3Ghz on all cores when the iGPU is stressed, then overclocking the CPU cores should not make a bit of difference to GPU-based benchmarks right?
> 
> Just ran Valley back-to-back, first with CPU at all Auto settings, second time with all CPU features disabled, manually set to 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v
> I ran it windowed at 1280x720 so I could watch both AMD Overdrive and CPUZ, both of which showed all cores at 3Ghz during the test.
> 
> On Auto I got 27.9 FPS and 1168 Score.
> @ 4.5Ghz I got 29.7 FPS and 1241 Score.
> 
> If both runs were truly at only 3Ghz on the CPU there should be virtually no difference between the FPS/Scores, or minimal at best. But the overclocked CPU run had almost a 2FPS improvement.[/
> 
> What if the 260x never gets xfire support? I'd go with the 250 and xfire it. Should give u better performance than just a 260x right?


----------



## Krusher33

I having trouble OC'ing my chip. Does anyone have a checklist of things to disable? There's so much new features I haven't seen before that I'm feeling overwhelmed.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> god GB has the worst bios's ever.


First build back to a Gigabyte board after about 7 years and I have to agree... I am having a nightmare of a time trying to get my 2400 ram to run at its rated clocks... I am tempted to just sell the UD4 and picking up an Asus or ASRock board but the water loop restrained me doing so









I am running the F4 bios, should I be trying the beta bios?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boxol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Here is the $10,000 question.
> 
> If we are all seeing a drop to 3Ghz on all cores when the iGPU is stressed, then overclocking the CPU cores should not make a bit of difference to GPU-based benchmarks right?
> 
> Just ran Valley back-to-back, first with CPU at all Auto settings, second time with all CPU features disabled, manually set to 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v
> I ran it windowed at 1280x720 so I could watch both AMD Overdrive and CPUZ, both of which showed all cores at 3Ghz during the test.
> 
> On Auto I got 27.9 FPS and 1168 Score.
> @ 4.5Ghz I got 29.7 FPS and 1241 Score.
> 
> If both runs were truly at only 3Ghz on the CPU there should be virtually no difference between the FPS/Scores, or minimal at best. But the overclocked CPU run had almost a 2FPS improvement.[/
> 
> What if the 260x never gets xfire support? I'd go with the 250 and xfire it. Should give u better performance than just a 260x right?
> 
> 
> 
> No. Probably slightly higher frame rate that is about all.
Click to expand...


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> First build back to a Gigabyte board after about 7 years and I have to agree... I am having a nightmare of a time trying to get my 2400 ram to run at its rated clocks... I am tempted to just sell the UD4 and picking up an Asus or ASRock board but the water loop restrained me doing so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am running the F4 bios, should I be trying the beta bios?


I disagree with your conclusion. The IMC is not that much different on Kaveri than on Piledriver. 2400 dram is pushing the chip to its limit. Some chips will do it, others will not. It's the luck of the draw.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I disagree with your conclusion. The IMC is not that much different on Kaveri than on Piledriver. 2400 dram is pushing the chip to its limit. Some chips will do it, others will not. It's the luck of the draw.


Considering that Kaveri officially supports 2133MHz and the iGPU is memory bandwidth bottlenecked, I can only conclude that AMD failed to deliver a solid product if a large number of chips are unable to run 2400MHz...


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> Considering that Kaveri officially supports 2133MHz and the iGPU is memory bandwidth bottlenecked, I can only conclude that AMD failed to deliver a solid product if a large number of chips are unable to run 2400MHz...


Joe Shlomo, of the C.P S.A. may agree with you if he were still alive.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> Considering that Kaveri officially supports 2133MHz and the iGPU is memory bandwidth bottlenecked, I can only conclude that AMD failed to deliver a solid product if a large number of chips are unable to run 2400MHz...


It's been proven that the BIOS is more responsible for the RAM overclocks rather than Kaveri itself. As os2wiz correctly stated, the IMC on Kaveri isn't too different from Piledriver besides the modifications made for HSA and hUMA support. I've seen several people unable to get 2400, but later getting it after updating the BIOS.

I wouldn't call a product a "fail" just because the RAM doesn't OC to a point that isn't even officially supported by the chip in the first place.


----------



## drnilly007

Wondering if anyone with the F2A88XN mitx from Giga has tried the beta bios F4a, notes say it helps with iGPU overclock.

Doing some benches with my setup right now and working up from stock to OC ram, I gpu , then full overclock, then I'm gonna pop in a 250x and see how it fares.

Might take me awhile my 1st amd system was from 939 Athlon 3200 ever since then I had Intel thought my NB days were done.


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> I am running the F4 bios, should I be trying the beta bios?


Definitely, I have the same board. You'll need the F5c for sure if you want to do any overclocking.


----------



## Jedson3614

Where is the guide ?


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jedson3614*
> 
> Where is the guide ?


This thread has been derailed pending more bios updates for the motherboards. Lots of throttling going on and varying results. I just got mine up and running today and testing out overclocks. I'll post later my findings in a separate thread.

Maybe OP should actually put an OC guide in first post.


----------



## Legi0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Wondering if anyone with the F2A88XN mitx from Giga has tried the beta bios F4a, notes say it helps with iGPU overclock.
> 
> Doing some benches with my setup right now and working up from stock to OC ram, I gpu , then full overclock, then I'm gonna pop in a 250x and see how it fares.
> 
> Might take me awhile my 1st amd system was from 939 Athlon 3200 ever since then I had Intel thought my NB days were done.


Prior to the F4a beta bios the board had a 720mhz hardlock on the iGPU with Kaveri APU's installed.
This hardlock has been increased to 960mhz with the current F4b beta bios.

I've had a few test bios's from Gigabyte''s engineers and none of them so far have allowed iGPU overclocking beyond 960mhz.
That said, you can go beyond 960mhz by increasing the fsb, but then you run into the AHCI bug at 103-105 fsb.
I have an ACHI install and cba to test an IDE mode install just now.

You also have the same issue of the CPU clock dropping to 3ghz when the iGPU is loaded, just like every other board.
I'm pretty sure it's a TDP load balancing part of Kaveri that has been undisclosed and in turn part of the lack of any truly high end boards out there.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legi0n*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Wondering if anyone with the F2A88XN mitx from Giga has tried the beta bios F4a, notes say it helps with iGPU overclock.
> 
> Doing some benches with my setup right now and working up from stock to OC ram, I gpu , then full overclock, then I'm gonna pop in a 250x and see how it fares.
> 
> Might take me awhile my 1st amd system was from 939 Athlon 3200 ever since then I had Intel thought my NB days were done.
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the F4a beta bios the board had a 720mhz hardlock on the iGPU with Kaveri APU's installed.
> This hardlock has been increased to 960mhz with the current F4b beta bios.
> 
> I've had a few test bios's from Gigabyte''s engineers and none of them so far have allowed iGPU overclocking beyond 960mhz.
> That said, you can go beyond 960mhz by increasing the fsb, but then you run into the AHCI bug at 103-105 fsb.
> I have an ACHI install and cba to test an IDE mode install just now.
> 
> You also have the same issue of the CPU clock dropping to 3ghz when the iGPU is loaded, just like every other board.
> I'm pretty sure it's a TDP load balancing part of Kaveri that has been undisclosed and in turn part of the lack of any truly high end boards out there.
Click to expand...

Ah I love buying broken new stuff.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> I having trouble OC'ing my chip. Does anyone have a checklist of things to disable? There's so much new features I haven't seen before that I'm feeling overwhelmed.


What you should really do with the Asus A88X-PRO is set up a number of OC Profiles in your UEFI BIOS in Advanced>Tools so you can do this sort of thing quickly. If you also install ASUS Boot Setting from the DVD>Software folder (it may not be in the DVD Menu), you can jump into BIOS from the Desktop, switch to your target OC Profile and reboot.

Starting with a standard running setup you can get back out to, press F5 to set optimized defaults then set up your standard preferences (eg. setting SATA to IDE/AHCI, Q-Fan controls enabled and set to Silent &etc.) then press F10 to save and reset, return to UEFI>Advanced Mode and go into Tools>Asus O.C. Profile, select Label, enter a suitable name, like Standard Running and press [Return]; now select Save To Profile, enter a number 1-8 and press [Return] to submit and again to confirm. Selecting that number in Load From Profile and resetting will then be the equivalent of F5 for your preferred default settings.

To set up a basic CPU OC Profile, for example press F5, go to Advanced>CPU Configuration and disable AMD PowerNow function, CPB Mode, C6 Mode and APM Master Mode. In Monitor Menu select your Q-Fan settings for OCing. In AI Tweaker Menu set Overclock Tuner[Manual], CPU Voltage[Manual Mode] and make sure APU Multiplier is set to [Auto] - type it and press [Return] if necessary. You can also select the divider for RAM (Memory Frequency[4.0/5.33/6.66/8.0/9.33/10.66/12.0]) that will be produced when you alter APU Frequency during the overclock - GPU Boost can be altered in AI Suite - unless you want to set an Auto default value.

Also as part of your OC setup you should include your option set for Digi+ Power Control. On the Asus FM2 boards AI Suite II had a Smart Digit Key which could do this for you, but this was omitted from AI Suite III in FM2+. However, you emulate the full Smart Digi+ setting in BIOS as follows:
CPU Load Line Calibration [Extreme]
CPU Current Capability [140%]
CPU/NB Load Line Calibration [Extreme]
CPU/NB Current Capability [120%]
CPU Power Phase Control [Extreme]
CPU Voltage Frequency [Fixed Frequency Mode]
Fixed Frequency Mode [310 KHz]
CPU Power Duty Control [TProbe]
CPU Power Thermal Control [135°C]
DRAM Current capability [120%]
DRAM Fixed Frequency Mode [400 KHz]
DRAM Power Phase Control [Extreme]

Save and reset all this with F10; select a Label and Number for it in Save To Profile and you now have a basic OC Profile.

To run an OC session now, all you have to do is run ASUS Boot Setting, set your OC Profile and reboot to Windows, then run AI Suite, set and apply Multiplier/Frequency/Vcore under TPU. However, you should print out a list of these OC Profiles so that you can reset them all if you ever update the BIOS.


----------



## kyfire

Just a heads up, for those seeing strange temps in HWMonitor withe the new A107860K......HWMonitor won't be compatible with the new AMD APUs till the next version (1.25) coming out soon. I got this info from Franck at CPUID. His exact reply to my question, Is HWMonitor compatible with new AMD FM2+ APUs? is as follows....

hello David,

the next release 1.25 will handle that CPU completely, with voltages & powers report.

Thanks,
Franck


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> Just a heads up, for those seeing strange temps in HWMonitor withe the new A107860K......HWMonitor won't be compatible with the new AMD APUs till the next version (1.25) coming out soon. I got this info from Franck at CPUID. His exact reply to my question, Is HWMonitor compatible with new AMD FM2+ APUs? is as follows....
> 
> hello David,
> 
> the next release 1.25 will handle that CPU completely, with voltages & powers report.
> 
> Thanks,
> Franck


I knew this was a problem. A few days ago the author of hwinfo monitor on his overclock.net thread claimed no knowledge of the problem I described with wildly gyrating temperature readings even at stock temperatures. Of course this is a different program with issues withKaveri readings.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Definitely, I have the same board. You'll need the F5c for sure if you want to do any overclocking.


After all that headache with the F4 bios, updated to F5c and am able to run 2400MHz by simply loading the XMP profile...



Thanks!


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> The way that the 260x is setup, what with the XDMA block, the TrueAudio, and it being GCN 1.1, it seems like the perfect match for DG with Kaveri. I don't know for sure, but I think the currently-available drivers are in their infancy, and 260x support will be added later.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *J0nDaFr3aK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Naroon. I am quite a bit disappointed with my 260X. The fps with the latest beta driver with mantle are very poor in 3D Mark. Also I noticed without the discreet gpu the 3D Mark scores got worse the higher the the igpu overclock. That seems a bit odd, The same with discreet gpu the more I overclocked the igpu the worse the scores got??? I can't figure it, unless the 128 bit memory bus on the 260X does not really benefit much due to bus width constraints??? Perhaps those beta drivers need a lot of work also???
Click to expand...


----------



## drnilly007

Got my machine up and running today and as soon as I install the video drivers quality on the desktop fell a lot. Text and icon is blurry looking colors seem to have gotten darker, Netflix quality is low. Anyone else have this problem.

This is compared to my previous i3 rig with a 9800gt. Now its a 7850k, 250x ( same quality with onboard). Played some Arkham Asylum and the game quality is very good so no problem there just overall desktop use is not great.

Tried a few drivers, did full uninstalls. This is a fresh windows install all updates. At wits end and want to sell it all and go back to intel/NVidia.

Is this normal for AMD or are there some settings or something?


----------



## NaroonGTX

@os2wiz

Yeah, I think the drivers are really buggy right now. So many weird things that defy explanation going on right now. Kaveri itself is a bit odd. I remember seeing someone get worse bench scores at 4.5ghz than they got at 4.4ghz.


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Also I noticed without the discreet gpu the 3D Mark scores got worse the higher the the igpu overclock. That seems a bit odd


I had this same problem on my Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 with the F4 BIOS. After flashing the beta F5c BIOS the performance improved with iGPU overclock.

In the F5c BIOS notes on Gigabyte's website it states "Improve APU OC performance".


----------



## os2wiz

It is not only the bios. I have the top Asus board. It performed better with the non-beta drivers on my discreet gpu, but still very poorly on 3DMark benchmark. With 16 Gb at good timings at 2133 mhz the A10-7850k scores about 1380 on 3DMark running at 4.1 GHZ with the MSI 2Gb 260X O.C..on Firestrike. THAT IS FAR LOWER than even the average gaming laptop does. I am running on Tt Frio Advanced , which is a mediocre tower fan so I can't run it above 4.2 GHZ. It looks better on Heaven 4.0 but what else is new. I feel the beta driver overall needs a lot of work If performance doesn't improve by at least 35% over the beta, Kaveri is a dud for gaming.Of course if they ever release a driver for dual graphics for the 260X it should work much better. AMD's silence on their dual graphics plans for the drivers is deafening and very discouraging. There is no reason not to announce whether dual graphics will be extended to additional offerings. It is not a new product offering, it is merely an extension of the driver to cover capabilities that already exist. There needs to be greater openess with the customer base on issues like this.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Got my machine up and running today and as soon as I install the video drivers quality on the desktop fell a lot. Text and icon is blurry looking colors seem to have gotten darker, Netflix quality is low. Anyone else have this problem.
> 
> This is compared to my previous i3 rig with a 9800gt. Now its a 7850k, 250x ( same quality with onboard). Played some Arkham Asylum and the game quality is very good so no problem there just overall desktop use is not great.
> 
> Tried a few drivers, did full uninstalls. This is a fresh windows install all updates. At wits end and want to sell it all and go back to intel/NVidia.
> 
> Is this normal for AMD or are there some settings or something?


I believe it is mainly a driver issue. Wait another 5 to 6 weeks and better Mantle drivers and other driver issues should be resolved.


----------



## FunkZ

I am also using the Tt Frio Advanced. You are right it is a mediocre cooler at best, but still I am able to get 4.5Ghz/1020Mhz with no problems. Heat doesn't seem to be much of an issue?

I am using the WHQL Catalyst 13.301 driver for Windows 8.1 64bit. Using the iGPU on stock with DDR3-2133 I scored 1424 on 3DMark Firestrike, and when overclocked at 4.3Ghz/1020Mhz it scored 1535.

The memory I am using now is only rated for 1600, when I push it to 2400 it is not 100% stable. I have some new 2400 rated sticks coming, and when I get them in I will retest at 4.5Ghz and hopefully push the iGPU a bit more too.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> I am also using the Tt Frio Advanced. You are right it is a mediocre cooler at best, but still I am able to get 4.5Ghz/1020Mhz with no problems. Heat doesn't seem to be much of an issue?
> 
> I am using the WHQL Catalyst 13.301 driver for Windows 8.1 64bit. Using the iGPU on stock with DDR3-2133 I scored 1424 on 3DMark Firestrike, and when overclocked at 4.3Ghz/1020Mhz it scored 1535.
> 
> The memory I am using now is only rated for 1600, when I push it to 2400 it is not 100% stable. I have some new 2400 rated sticks coming, and when I get them in I will retest at 4.5Ghz and hopefully push the iGPU a bit more too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> I am also using the Tt Frio Advanced. You are right it is a mediocre cooler at best, but still I am able to get 4.5Ghz/1020Mhz with no problems. Heat doesn't seem to be much of an issue?
> 
> I am using the WHQL Catalyst 13.301 driver for Windows 8.1 64bit. Using the iGPU on stock with DDR3-2133 I scored 1424 on 3DMark Firestrike, and when overclocked at 4.3Ghz/1020Mhz it scored 1535.
> 
> The memory I am using now is only rated for 1600, when I push it to 2400 it is not 100% stable. I have some new 2400 rated sticks coming, and when I get them in I will retest at 4.5Ghz and hopefully push the iGPU a bit more too.


I am 100% sure you have not run proper stress stability tests like prime 95, IBT AVX, and OCCT AVX. No way on the FrIo could you pass those tests at 4.5 a GHZ so you are only fooling yourself. By the way what motherboard are you using?


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I am 100% sure you have not run proper stress stability tests like prime 95, IBT AVX, and OCCT AVX. No way on the FrIo could you pass those tests at 4.5 a GHZ so you are only fooling yourself. By the way what motherboard are you using?


OCCT stable for 30+ minutes, good enough forme. Althoughof course observed throttling as most report. F2a88x-up4


----------



## RabbitRu

Hi everyone








So I have an 7850K and I'm mostly interested in iGPU and memory OC because I dont want to buy a dGPU and I want to play on it (1680*1050 res)
Now I have Hynix 2*2gb 2133mhz memory OCed to 2520mhz 14-16-15-28 timings(raised base clock to 105) and iGPU OCed to 1008mhz(it is set to 960 + 5% from base clock), CPU is set to 4410mhz (42*105 and I'm not going to overclock it more).
System scores 1817\8307\78372(FireStrike\CloudGate\IceStorm) in 3DMark and it's stable(tested by furmark).
I tryed to go up(iGPU 1111mhz\Memory 2640mhz) but then I get a BSOD after some time or driver just crashes(
But I was able to run FireStrike,it scored 1903 and then system crashed








Have anyone scored more?(which voltage\clocks did you used?)


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RabbitRu*
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I have an 7850K and I'm mostly interested in iGPU and memory OC because I dont want to buy a dGPU and I want to play on it (1680*1050 res)
> Now I have Hynix 2*2gb 2133mhz memory OCed to 2520mhz 14-16-15-28 timings(raised base clock to 105) and iGPU OCed to 1008mhz(it is set to 960 + 5% from base clock), CPU is set to 4410mhz (42*105 and I'm not going to overclock it more).
> System scores 1817\8307\78372(FireStrike\CloudGate\IceStorm) in 3DMark and it's stable(tested by furmark).
> I tryed to go up(iGPU 1111mhz\Memory 2640mhz) but then I get a BSOD after some time or driver just crashes(
> But I was able to run FireStrike,it scored 1903 and then system crashed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have anyone scored more?(which voltage\clocks did you used?)


Tovarich! I don't think so.


----------



## os2wiz

Has anyone noticed gross inaccuracy with hwinfo64 and Kaveri? The temperature reradings wildly gyrate on my computer both under stress and without stress. There has to be a software bug.


----------



## os2wiz

You gave a model of the board without a Brand. That is not very useful. I don't have time to google search everything. I still give little credence to your stability claims with a 960 mhz igpu overclock and and a 21 % overclock of the cpu. That equals high temps, no way around that. It takes a lot of voltage to go above 4,4 GHZ on Kaveri. That would be a lot more credible on water cooling, just won't buy it on TT Frio.


----------



## burticus

Thinking of selling my 7850k for what I paid for it, $129 plus shipping (USA). $3 shipping should be plenty if you just want the CPU and don't want the oem heatsink (and you don't, it's garbage).

I think I need more rep to sell on the FS forum though, so either PM me or rep me up!.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burticus*
> 
> Thinking of selling my 7850k for what I paid for it, $129 plus shipping (USA). $3 shipping should be plenty if you just want the CPU and don't want the oem heatsink (and you don't, it's garbage).
> 
> I think I need more rep to sell on the FS forum though, so either PM me or rep me up!.


Boy you have such little patience. You have the chip for a week, you know the drivers for it and the bios need revisions. Why be a quitter? Wait a few weeks until new Catalyst drivers are available and Asus, Gigabyte, and Asrock release updated bios for their boards.


----------



## burticus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Boy you have such little patience. You have the chip for a week, you know the drivers for it and the bios need revisions. Why be a quitter? Wait a few weeks until new Catalyst drivers are available and Asus, Gigabyte, and Asrock release updated bios for their boards.


Yeah I do tend to be impatient. I spent a lot of time tweaking and it's barely better than the Athlon 2 it was replacing (445 @ 3.1ghz with 4th core unlocked). Granted the igpu is clearly better for gaming than a $50 video card, but I would do so little of it on this box... and it looks like I'm going to need 8gb of expensive fast ram if gaming is going to be an option. 4gb doesn't look like much when the igpu is eating 1gb or more.

(on the other hand, I could also sell Athlon and a Biostar 780 mobo but shipping would cost a lot more)


----------



## brokerdave

Had to update the BIOS on my ASRock FMA88X Extreme 6 to 3.0 (released only days ago), as well as the newest catalyst drivers, but I have my 7850K up to 4.3 gigs on the stock cooler with no issues whatsoever.

I would like to work it harder, but finding a non-liquid cooling solution that doesnt crowd the RAM slots A2 and B2 is becoming problematic. Any suggestions on a fan/heatsink combo? If not, then liquid it shall be.


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Has anyone noticed gross inaccuracy with hwinfo64 and Kaveri? The temperature reradings wildly gyrate on my computer both under stress and without stress. There has to be a software bug.


Yes, I contacted CPUID about it and they are aware and the Kaveri will be supported in the next release of HWMonitor.
We all have to keep in mind the Keveri is a new chip with new features that most current benchmarks and monitoring software won't properly support yet.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> Yes, I contacted CPUID about it and they are aware and the Kaveri will be supported in the next release of HWMonitor.
> We all have to keep in mind the Keveri is a new chip with new features that most current benchmarks and monitoring software won't properly support yet.


HWMonitor is NOT the same program as HWInfo64 they are written by different people. So you really did NOT answer my question.


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> HWMonitor is NOT the same program as HWInfo64 they are written by different people. So you really did NOT answer my question.


True, two different p[programs. BUT, as I also stated "We all have to keep in mind the Keveri is a new chip with new features that most current benchmarks and monitoring software won't properly support yet." I indirectly DID answer your question


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> True, two different p[programs. BUT, as I also stated "We all have to keep in mind the Keveri is a new chip with new features that most current benchmarks and monitoring software won't properly support yet." I indirectly DID answer your question


That would be fine,but if you noticed I was asking if others had the same experience as I did with hwinfo64. Did you help me with what I was asking or were you a sidebar? I think the answer is obvious. Thanks but no thanks.


----------



## RabbitRu

Just noticed,I am using fixed videomemory bufer and I can get my iGPU stable at 1080mhz with 512mb memory allocated.But thats not enough for FieStrike(score is only ≈1700 while I scored above 80 000 in Ice Storm and my previous record in FireStrike was 1814)
And then I set buffer to 1gb CCC crashes in a minute after start of a benchmark.
Has anyone else faced problems like this before?


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brokerdave*
> 
> I would like to work it harder, but finding a non-liquid cooling solution that doesnt crowd the RAM slots A2 and B2 is becoming problematic. Any suggestions on a fan/heatsink combo? If not, then liquid it shall be.


I have Zalman CNPS10X with two fans and it can deal with overclocked 7850K(never seen temp above 52 C and I think the problem is with ntegrated heat spreader because there is only 1-2 C difference between 1200RPM and 2000RPM of coolers) also it allows to use all 4 RAM slots on Asus A88XM-Plus (only if memory is low-profile without radiators but my Hynix is still cool at 2520mhz and 1.7V without radiators or additional cooling)


----------



## drnilly007

I have started mining on the gpu side of the 7850k. I have a dedicated gpu and since there are no dual graphics I might as well use up tech that's built in.

You have to make sure the igpu driver is installed. I initially installed the driver with the dgpu and it would only recognize the igpu as a Generic video controller.

Pretty cool I have no idea what hashrates mean or if it is low or not but I can guess its not very much but at least its being used.


----------



## SuperHiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Pretty cool I have no idea what hashrates mean or if it is low or not but I can guess its not very much but at least its being used.


Ran my 7850k with guiminer mining a scrypt cryptocurrency and pulled 90-100 khash although none of my shares were going through. It was just working and not going anywhere. Instead I run the igpu for display tasks while my dgpu mines when I'm not gaming which is a reasonable compromise. In comparison my R9 270 pulls 400 khash which barely pulls me more than 0.1 ltc a day or some 1.5-2k of doge coins a day. Barely much so I tip my hat to the miners with serious hardware that'll become obsolete soon enough so I can buy myself a 290 for cheap on ebay when that happens


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You gave a model of the board without a Brand. That is not very useful. I don't have time to google search everything. I still give little credence to your stability claims with a 960 mhz igpu overclock and and a 21 % overclock of the cpu. That equals high temps, no way around that. It takes a lot of voltage to go above 4,4 GHZ on Kaveri. That would be a lot more credible on water cooling, just won't buy it on TT Frio.


F2A88X-UP4 is a Gigabyte board, which most would recognize. And if you didn't, it takes fewer keystrokes to google than it did to type your response. Sorry I don't have time to provide every piece of information or proof that you seem to require in order to believe me. I joined this thread for info on the Kaveri and throttling, not to put up with your attitude and incredulity.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> I joined this thread for info on the Kaveri and throttling, not to put up with your attitude and incredulity.


Just add him to your block list. It's not like he ever has anything useful to contribute...


----------



## FunkZ

So the only way to get past the 960Mhz iGPU cap is to increase the ref clock right?

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2528193


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Here is the $10,000 question.
> 
> If we are all seeing a drop to 3Ghz on all cores when the iGPU is stressed, then overclocking the CPU cores should not make a bit of difference to GPU-based benchmarks right?
> 
> Just ran Valley back-to-back, first with CPU at all Auto settings, second time with all CPU features disabled, manually set to 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v
> I ran it windowed at 1280x720 so I could watch both AMD Overdrive and CPUZ, both of which showed all cores at 3Ghz during the test.
> 
> On Auto I got 27.9 FPS and 1168 Score.
> @ 4.5Ghz I got 29.7 FPS and 1241 Score.
> 
> If both runs were truly at only 3Ghz on the CPU there should be virtually no difference between the FPS/Scores, or minimal at best. But the overclocked CPU run had almost a 2FPS improvement.


Remember that if you locked it @ 3.0ghz it was @ that speed the whole benchmark but when you clocked it @ 4.5ghz it under clocked when igpu was full load but in some moments during the benchmark if the igpu load lowered for 3 or 4 seconds the CPU will go to 4.5 during those 3 or 4 seconds then under clock again when igpu goes back @ full load, that could explain the little difference in the scores.


----------



## FunkZ

I see what you're saying, and you're right, in between the actual graphic scenes, which in Valley there are 18, the CPU clock may briefly jump back up to the OC speed, then throttle back to 3Ghz, but it "indicates" most of the time at the 3Ghz throttled speed during the actual benchmark while the iGPU is loaded. In a heavily GPU intensive benchmark like Valley my guess would be that a few seconds in between scenes would not be enough to skew the results by 2FPS.

Comparing 3DMark Firestrike
1424 Stock iGPU, Stock CPU http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1697195
1535 960 iGPU, 4.3 CPU http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1697452
1580 960 iGPU, 4.5 CPU http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1767720

In all 3 runs the GPU score went up along with the Physics score. If the CPU were throttling for most of the run I would expect the Physics score at least to show very little change.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> Just add him to your block list. It's not like he ever has anything useful to contribute...


Even when I am wrong in my understanding of an issue I contribute . I point out incongruities in bios remarks, problems with. Hwinfo64 and accurate Kaveri temps, and other items. You are nothing short of a complete putz.


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> So the only way to get past the 960Mhz iGPU cap is to increase the ref clock right?


Dunno what about Gigabyte, but on Asus boards you can surely set iGPU clocks above 1ghz without raising ref clock.
Also there is no sense in OCing iGPU higher than 960mhz wthout blazing fast memory because Radeon 7750 has same 512 videocores at 900mhz but it usually scores above 2000 while max I can get of our R7 is 1876 (1080 iGPU,4410 CPU,2520 11-13-12 RAM and thats a record







www.3dmark.com/fs/1765725 )

And if anyone is interested 7730 with GDDR5 is slower than our overclocked iGPU(with 2400 DDR3) .Sad it cant go dual graphics


----------



## FunkZ

I can set 1020Mhz in BIOS and CPUZ for example will show 1020Mhz but GPUZ and 3DMark show 960Mhz, that's Gigabyte's doing from what I've read. I am also using the WHQL 13.301 driver, I'll have to try the beta 13.350 driver that you're using when I get faster memory. Thanks!


----------



## Farmer Boe

Dbl post please delete


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Even when I am wrong in my understanding of an issue I contribute . I point out incongruities in bios remarks, problems with. Hwinfo64 and accurate Kaveri temps, and other items. You are nothing short of a complete putz.


And....blocked


----------



## BuckJD2339

I am new to building PCs let alone OCing and APU but I had some questions that I hoped people could answer. I have an Asus a88x-pro and 7850k. It took me a full day of Googling and messing with the bios to get what i want out of it so far. I will be using this machine for multimedia/medium gaming. I have overclocked my iGPU to 1020mhz and everything runs pretty stable. My main questions are with dual graphics. I was wondering is it worth it to get a 260x even though they haven't released compatible dual graphics drivers for it? If you match the core clock and the downclock the gddr5 memory clock to match the dual channel memory (2400mhz) will that work? Isn't the iGPU and the dGPU the same architecture besides the extra stream processors of the dGPU? Maybe the answer is obvious and noobie question but I would appreciate if someone could help me understand it a little better. Thanks.


----------



## mdocod

buckJD,

I don't believe it is likely that there will ever be _official_ support for dual graphics configurations that are that asymmetrical. Back before Kaveri came out I predicted that the first benchmark to show a 260X+Kaveri in dual graphics will likely prove not to be beneficial compared to just running the 260X as a discrete GPU. Then everyone was "shocked" to learn that the 260X wouldn't even be officially supported (why would it be? if it doesn't work well?). The fact that it isn't a supported configuration, only reinforces that my prediction was likely accurate.

The problem is that, the overhead and intentional throttling required to attempt to utilize both pieces of hardware in such a radically asymmetrical configuration in a manner that doesn't screw up frame pacing would begin to approach the power of the iGPU in the first place, at which point, there is no point. A 260X running discrete, should be as good or better than you'll get from dual graphics with the supported GPUs anyway.

The "hope" would be that they come up with ways to use the iGPU in other ways when paired with more powerful GPUs.


----------



## Alecx

Is there any monitoring software to check the 7700K temperatura?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdocod*
> 
> buckJD,
> 
> I don't believe it is likely that there will ever be _official_ support for dual graphics configurations that are that asymmetrical. Back before Kaveri came out I predicted that the first benchmark to show a 260X+Kaveri in dual graphics will likely prove not to be beneficial compared to just running the 260X as a discrete GPU. Then everyone was "shocked" to learn that the 260X wouldn't even be officially supported (why would it be? if it doesn't work well?). The fact that it isn't a supported configuration, only reinforces that my prediction was likely accurate.
> 
> The problem is that, the overhead and intentional throttling required to attempt to utilize both pieces of hardware in such a radically asymmetrical configuration in a manner that doesn't screw up frame pacing would begin to approach the power of the iGPU in the first place, at which point, there is no point. A 260X running discrete, should be as good or better than you'll get from dual graphics with the supported GPUs anyway.
> 
> The "hope" would be that they come up with ways to use the iGPU in other ways when paired with more powerful GPUs.


The "other ways" meaning hsa support I take it.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> Is there any monitoring software to check the 7700K temperatura?


Good point. Both hwinfo64 and hwmonitor are not working accurately with Kaveri as far as temperatures are concerned.Hopefully the bugs will be worked out soon.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> Is there any monitoring software to check the 7700K temperatura?


I use easy tune 6 for my gigabyte board so i would try the manufacturers application for your board.

On another note... Msi afterburner beta 18 causes my OS,window8, to not boot. In the settings when you check a box that says Extend overclocking limits, then says the computer needs to restart from there it just black screens after the windows logo.

I was trying to overclock my 250x more. Ended up doing multiple reinstalls last night to see if i could isolate the problem.

Tried the setting without the 250x in and same thing.

Just thought just now to try and disable the iGPu and see if it happens again. Gonna make a Windows image first as I have everything installed again. Im gonna go post in the other dr8ver section maybe that option is just buggy.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I use easy tune 6 for my gigabyte board so i would try the manufacturers application for your board.
> 
> On another note... Msi afterburner beta 18 causes my OS,window8, to not boot. In the settings when you check a box that says Extend overclocking limits, then says the computer needs to restart from there it just black screens after the windows logo.
> 
> I was trying to overclock my 250x more. Ended up doing multiple reinstalls last night to see if i could isolate the problem.
> 
> Tried the setting without the 250x in and same thing.
> 
> Just thought just now to try and disable the iGPu and see if it happens again. Gonna make a Windows image first as I have everything installed again. Im gonna go post in the other dr8ver section maybe that option is just buggy.


Motherboard software for temperature tracking has had a bad rep for some time. Usually the readings except in bios are quite inaccurate. That certainly has been well documented for Asus AI Suite software, I believe the same for Gigabyte and Asrock as well. That is why people use programs like hwinfo64. But we will have to wait a while for an updated version, as the current one is not very good with Kaveri.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I use easy tune 6 for my gigabyte board so i would try the manufacturers application for your board.
> 
> On another note... Msi afterburner beta 18 causes my OS,window8, to not boot. In the settings when you check a box that says Extend overclocking limits, then says the computer needs to restart from there it just black screens after the windows logo.
> 
> I was trying to overclock my 250x more. Ended up doing multiple reinstalls last night to see if i could isolate the problem.
> 
> Tried the setting without the 250x in and same thing.
> 
> Just thought just now to try and disable the iGPu and see if it happens again. Gonna make a Windows image first as I have everything installed again. Im gonna go post in the other dr8ver section maybe that option is just buggy.
> 
> 
> 
> Motherboard software for temperature tracking has had a bad rep for some time. Usually the readings except in bios are quite inaccurate. That certainly has been well documented for Asus AI Suite software, I believe the same for Gigabyte and Asrock as well. That is why people use programs like hwinfo64. But we will have to wait a while for an updated version, as the current one is not very good with Kaveri.
Click to expand...

Well reputation doesn't matter when its the only thing that works. Also I have used ASUS AI suite software and it worked great for me on a P8Z77-V, I think people get confused with it because they labeled cpu temp wrong when it was socket temp other than that it worked great. It has superb fan control options. Other apps included with AI suite I never installed as I didn't see a use for them but the main OC,monitoring, AIO app was very good.

I also used the Asrock software on an Z77 Extreme 4 and it worked perfectly for temp readings.

Also used the MSI software for a Mpower Z77 board and it worked perfectly as well. So far all the ones I tested have WORKED.

Perhaps you read about these not working on initial versions. I typically am a late adopter about 6 months after release and most bugs are worked out.

I also use ET6 for its fan control options as well and well see how accurate the temps are when other apps are released for now I trust it enough to OC to 4.1 and 920 on igpu so I keep it mid level just in case though.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Well reputation doesn't matter when its the only thing that works. Also I have used ASUS AI suite software and it worked great for me on a P8Z77-V, I think people get confused with it because they labeled cpu temp wrong when it was socket temp other than that it worked great. It has superb fan control options. Other apps included with AI suite I never installed as I didn't see a use for them but the main OC,monitoring, AIO app was very good.
> 
> I also used the Asrock software on an Z77 Extreme 4 and it worked perfectly for temp readings.
> 
> Also used the MSI software for a Mpower Z77 board and it worked perfectly as well. So far all the ones I tested have WORKED.
> 
> Perhaps you read about these not working on initial versions. I typically am a late adopter about 6 months after release and most bugs are worked out.
> 
> I also use ET6 for its fan control options as well and well see how accurate the temps are when other apps are released for now I trust it enough to OC to 4.1 and 920 on igpu so I keep it mid level just in case though.


If it works for you fine, but it is NOT a matter of confusion, it is a matter of fact. Go on the largest AMD CPU thread here on overclock.net the "The Official Vishera FX832--8350 Owners Club". All of the most accomplished users there , that certainly does not include me, with overclocking use primarily hwinfo64. These are guys who have done this for many years and have great rigs, some are computer professionals. They have analyzed the motherboard software for temperature readings and found them wanting. I am not beating my breast or trying to say I am right and you are wrong. That would be idiotic of me. Do a little investigation and you will see that what I am saying is on the money. Now I have made some blunders in my time, no doubt about it, but this is not one of them.


----------



## drnilly007

Ya that's fine I never looked into any of that and this is seriously my first AMD rig since 2005 when I built my first computer. I do have to say that with AMD I run into the same issues now that I did then. I have been doing lots of re-installs of windows messing with overclock settings. Me thinks that the AMD chipsets are to blame and perhaps the same for the monitoring softwares compared to Intel. Just speaking of personal experiences.


----------



## kyfire

AMD Overdrive supports the new Keveri APUs http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/amd-overdrive/Pages/overview.aspx

HWMonitor will have support for the Keveri APUs in it's next release.

It's not that there are "bugs" in the current monitoring software but that the Keveri is a totally new chip. All the current software for monitoring will need to be updated by their respective authors to properly support Keveri.


----------



## drnilly007

Well I just confirmed with my own trial and error and bout 3 windows re-installs that with Afterburner beta 18 when you check the Extend Overclocking Limits (for AMD) a pop-up will say that the PC needs to reboot then once it gets to Windows logo it will go black and you will not be able to get back into windows without a restore or re-install.

This happens because of the iGPU. You must disable the iGPU before ticking this option, leaving it on auto does not work either. Then you can turn it back on after it reboots and you can see in AB that the limits have been removed.

Not confirmed if this is applicable for all betas of AB.

This is of course if you are trying to overclock a dGPU past bios limits. iGPU ocing is done through bios.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> OCCT stable for 30+ minutes, good enough forme. Althoughof course observed throttling as most report. F2a88x-up4


By the way you said OCCT stable for 30 minutes. Did you run it on the AVX option which is a much more brutal stress than regular OCCT? Just curious.


----------



## brokerdave

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> Is there any monitoring software to check the 7700K temperatura?


I have an ASRock FM2A88x Extreme 6 which comes with ASTune which tells you the CPU temp. I do not like 'cheating' using this feature to OC the processor, but it works fine and I am running 4.3 gig on the stock cooler. Temps never go above 55 celsius. point is - some MOBO's have monitoring software that comes with the board - check your install CD and see if you got something on it!


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> The "other ways" meaning hsa support I take it.


You are probably right thoughn your reasoning is somewhat flawed. The R& 260X is not all that much faster than a 250. But as far as support see this reply from AMD to my request for driver support for 260X dual graphics:

Warsam71 sent you this private message on Overclock.net, February 27, 11:03 am
Hello again,

Dual graphics support is enabled on the 250 and 240 products. We have no plans to expand the list at this time.

Best,
Sam


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> For Dual Graphics, you need to connect the HDMI / VGA / DVI plug into the discreet GPU, and then in the CCC (Catalyst Control Center) there is an option that lets you toggle Dual Graphics on or off.
> 
> Some BIOS'es have options to disable/enable the iGPU, but different companies have different names for it (and bizarrely, some completely lack the option from what I've seen in the past!), so you'll have to dig around in the BIOS to see what it's called or if it's there.
> 
> The way that the 260x is setup, what with the XDMA block, the TrueAudio, and it being GCN 1.1, it seems like the perfect match for DG with Kaveri. I don't know for sure, but I think the currently-available drivers are in their infancy, and 260x support will be added later.


You now are hedging. At the time I purchased my 260X you and other were nol hedging, you claimed in all likelihood there would be dual graphics support. THAT is why I purchased the 260X instead of a 270X which would have given me a much better frame rate.
Here is AMD's response to my inquiry of future dual graphics support for the 260X:

Warsam71 sent you this private message on Overclock.net, February 27, 11:03 am
Hello again,

Dual graphics support is enabled on the 250 and 240 products. We have no plans to expand the list at this time.

Best,
Sam


----------



## NaroonGTX

Are you trying to blame ME for this? I never said it was a definite chance that they would support the 260x, I said it was possible that they would. So if you're trying to blame me, it's a no-go, you should've waited to have 100% clarification before buying anything.


----------



## akromatic

anyone running theirs with discrete GPU? how is the performance because i find mine extremely crippled for some reason. even stock onboard feels crippled and with discrete im getting half the 3d marks that i could have with intel platform


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> anyone running theirs with discrete GPU? how is the performance because i find mine extremely crippled for some reason. even stock onboard feels crippled and with discrete im getting half the 3d marks that i could have with intel platform


I get the same 3d mark 11 score with 7850k+270X with my buddy who has i5-3570+gtx 660 but I get much better framerates in BF4. Why do you care about 3d mark scores?


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> I get the same 3d mark 11 score with 7850k+270X with my buddy who has i5-3570+gtx 660 but I get much better framerates in BF4. Why do you care about 3d mark scores?


i care about 3d mark scores because it gives me a baseline comparison because im not getting real life performance as the card and CPU should be

may i ask what scores you get?

right now my scores with 270X and 670GTX are about the same but half of what i should be getting according to reviews and comparing to when it is equipped to my i7 3770

http://www.overclock.net/t/1459225/i-have-custom-looped-kaveri-and-am-your-guinea-pig/710#post_21856335
http://www.overclock.net/t/1459225/i-have-custom-looped-kaveri-and-am-your-guinea-pig/720#post_21860773


----------



## nitrubbb

Hmm, looks like most recent beta drivers did something, I used to get ~6400 but now I only got 5898

ScoreP5898 with AMD Radeon HD 8860(1x) and AMD A10-7850K

Graphics Score
8216

Physics Score
3176

Combined Score
3223


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> Hmm, looks like most recent beta drivers did something, I used to get ~6400 but now I only got 5898
> 
> ScoreP5898 with AMD Radeon HD 8860(1x) and AMD A10-7850K
> 
> Graphics Score
> 8216
> 
> Physics Score
> 3176
> 
> Combined Score
> 3223


Yes the 2nd round of beta for Mantle crashes 3D Mark Firestrike. It also seemed to cause a system reboot, very strange. The reboot came in the middle of playing an old game Sid Meir's. Pirates. Never had that happen before. I have had an occasional. Error where I would be thrown to the desktop and had close the game down, but never an unexpected system reboot.


----------



## nitrubbb

ah, looks like I had to close down all other apps while running bench.

Score*P6783* with AMD Radeon HD 8860(1x) and AMD A10-7850K

Graphics Score
8574

Physics Score
4253

Combined Score
4053

cpu @ 4.3


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> ah, looks like I had to close down all other apps while running bench.
> 
> Score*P6783* with AMD Radeon HD 8860(1x) and AMD A10-7850K
> 
> Graphics Score
> 8574
> 
> Physics Score
> 4253
> 
> Combined Score
> 4053
> 
> cpu @ 4.3


this is with which version of 3dmark?

HD8860?

anyway

P6070 with AMD Radeon R9 270X(1x) and AMD A10-7850K

Graphics Score8306

Physics Score3475

Combined Score3198

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8047121


----------



## nitrubbb

3d mark 11, the free version, have no idea why it shows as 8860

have msi r9 270X gaming 4G


----------



## aargos

I'm a novice with overclocking so I'm hoping to get some help here. Currently running my RAM at 2133 with my A10-7850k but looking to run it at the rated 2400. My components:

Mobo: Gigabyte F2A88XM-HD3 (latest non-beta bios, F5)
RAM: Gskill Ares 2400 (2 8GB sticks)
Cooler: Noctua NH-L9a

Tried using the XMP setting but that would not boot. Got some help from Gskill to get 2133 working with following BIOS changes:

NB +.024v
Timings set to 9 9 9 24
DRAM set to 1.65v

This has been running stable for last couple weeks. With that being the case I'd like to get to 2400 but as I said up top I don't know enough about what to change to get this to happen. Would greatly appreciate whatever suggestions on what needs to be changed to get the full 2400 speed.

If it would help, per Gskill site these are the timings listed for this at 2400:

11-13-13-31


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aargos*
> 
> Mobo: Gigabyte F2A88XM-HD3 (latest non-beta bios, F5)


Use the beta BIOS, you'll likely be able to run the XMP profile for 2400.


----------



## Alecx

So, i found something interesting after flashing F5b on my A88X D3H . My 7700K drops to 2.8Ghz when the gpu it's at full load. It's that normal?


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> 3d mark 11, the free version, have no idea why it shows as 8860
> 
> have msi r9 270X gaming 4G


well ether way you are getting more then i do which is odd


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> So, i found something interesting after flashing F5b on my A88X D3H . My 7700K drops to 2.8Ghz when the gpu it's at full load. It's that normal?


I have the same problem with A10-7850K & Asus MB .Guess it's normal for Kaveri.(if you r speaking about iGPU at full load)


----------



## drnilly007

What's everyone's scores with 13.3 driver?


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> What's everyone's scores with 13.3 driver?


Isn't it better to use the latest beta driver?
And in which bench? 3DMark11 \latest 3DMark\Heaven bench?


----------



## drnilly007

13.3 is the WHQL for the 7850k and the only way to know if the beta is improving performance is to know how it compares.


----------



## drnilly007

Also anyone else run memtest? It shows that the L2 cache is only 2Mb when it's supposed to be 4mb? Maybe just a software glitch?


----------



## FunkZ

Here's my 3DMark scores with the 13.301 WHQL and 13.350 beta for comparison.

Ice Storm 71837
Cloud Gate 7826
Fire Strike 1631

Ice Storm 65861
Cloud Gate 7834
Fire Strike 1654

Beta scores for Cloud and Fire improved very slightly, while Ice decreased significantly.

CPU-Z shows 2Mb x 2 L2 cache, I assume Memtest is only reading the cache from one module.


----------



## drnilly007

Is that with just the iGPU?


----------



## drnilly007

What do you all think of this only one core being used. Maybe a glitch?

Also does everyone elses gpu clocks jump like this one


----------



## FunkZ

Yes my scores were with just the iGPU. Furmark is primarily a GPU test so it doesn't need to be multi-threaded. When the iGPU frequency dips like that it's probably thermal/TDP throttling, also notice your CPU speed dropped to 3Ghz when iGPU is loaded in Furmark.


----------



## drnilly007

Yes I am only getting 650 ish in Firemark extreme something is wrong. I have everything at stock and have tried everything.


----------



## FunkZ

Yeah somethings not right there. I got 1424 with the stock settings and 2133 memory. I read your build thread, are you using the factory cooler or something else? Do you have a link to your score to compare?


----------



## drnilly007

I even went back to Windows 7
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1810027
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1809968
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1809870

This one is with a 260x
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1805116


----------



## FunkZ

Looks like you're using the Extreme preset, my scores are with the Basic version, default settings. That's going to be the big difference in points I bet.

There's also a difference in memory speed, DDR3-1600 compared to 2400. Not sure that allocating 2Gb to the iGPU instead of just 1Gb benefits much at these speeds either. If you plan to use the 260X then that's not an issue anyway.


----------



## FunkZ

Thought you'd find these results interesting. All Fire Strike runs used the same system settings other than specified memory changes.

1Gb UMA DDR3-1600 9 - 9 - 9 | 1394
1Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1631
2Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1621


----------



## Alecx

What is the best GPU to pair with a 7700K ? (mostly CAD and PS work).


----------



## mdocod

There's probably not much of any benefit past 512MB, maybe less. The only time you'll see performance scaling with more VRAM dedicated will be while using settings that wouldn't be "playable" regardless.


----------



## Kramy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I have started mining on the gpu side of the 7850k. I have a dedicated gpu and since there are no dual graphics I might as well use up tech that's built in.
> 
> You have to make sure the igpu driver is installed. I initially installed the driver with the dgpu and it would only recognize the igpu as a Generic video controller.
> 
> Pretty cool I have no idea what hashrates mean or if it is low or not but I can guess its not very much but at least its being used.


Serious miners measure power consumption and tweak voltages (underclock) to get the most economical balance.

I just set up a mining rig. Up here in Canada the cheapest Kaveri chip is just north of $200. I instead went for a dated A10-5800K for my litecoin mining experiment as it was over $100 less. (Eventually it'll be turned into an HTPC.







)

There's no voltage options in my board's BIOS, but I underclocked it to 2.0ghz and 300mhz on the CPU/iGP - slow, but still fast enough to handle any video stuff tossed at it. In the meantime the whole setup draws about 32 watts from the wall.







Well, until I added an R9 290 - then it's 360 watts from the wall. Gets about 820khashes/sec. (I may be able to tweak/improve that further.)

If you've got a kill-a-watt, check what your CPU is drawing and figure out if it's economical. If it's drawing 150 watts for 100khash, you're probably spending money rather than making it.

Hey, since the GPUs on these 7850K's are bandwidth starved, how low can you clock them without impacting performance significantly? I'm wondering if the 30x throttle can be defeated by underclocking the IGP?


----------



## ph34rl3ssL34d3r

I thought I'd share some results/thoughts from my recent Dual Graphics build. I've really been looking forward to this iteration of Dual Graphics for well over a year now. After assembling all the parts for a performance mini-ATX build, I've flashed GPU using the latest BIOS, motherboard to the latest beta BIOS, and using the Catalyst 14.2 Beta 1.3 driver. I spent a few days testing.

APU: A10-7850K
Motherboard: GIgabyte F2A88XM-D3H
Graphics Card: Gigabyte R7 250 1GB DDR5
Memory: 2x4GB G.Skill Sniper PC19200
Cooling: CoolerMaster Hyper212 EVO w/2x Corsair SP120 High Performance fans
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E

*Memory/Northbridge Overclock*
Enabling the X.M.P. Profile was necessary to get my RAM to run properly at 2400MHz. The system would crash otherwise. On the plus side you don't have to do any memory settings other than clicking enable.
I could set the Northbridge from 1800 to 2000MHz, but the system wouldn't boot any higher than that. I would recommend doing this as the extra bandwidth gained about 10 FPS in 3DMark's Cloud Gate test.

*IGP Overclock*
Overclocking the IGP was the 2nd easiest task. I could clock it up to 1050MHz safely, but it wouldn't go any higher until I hit the sweet spot of 1108MHz in the BIOS. At that point the clock would go over, but the graphics driver would become unstable and crash. That reason being that the Gigabyte GPU is factory OC'd to 1100MHz, so the Dual Graphics specs need to match.

*CPU Overclock*
As many people know, the power consumption starts goes through the roof at 4.4 GHz.

4.4GHz - +.054
4.5GHz - +.114
4.6GHz - +.198 (stable)
4.7GHz - +.270 (no load)

I didn't want to push the clock any higher without proper temperature readings, as I was hovering close to 80 according to (flawed) HWiNFO and around 70 on EasyTune.
For testing purposes, I stayed at the stable clock of 4.6, but I'll likely drop to 4.5 because I want a quieter case. I don't have PWM fans, so they blow full speed at 2220 RPM until I get my fan controller off eBay.

*3DMark Resuls*
Dual Graphics ON Dual Graphics OFF IGP Only

Ice Storm

Graphics 129504 Graphics 124755 Graphics 83739
Physics 44797 Physics 44679 Physics 42469
Combined 91187 Combined 89220 Combined 68867

Cloud Gate

Graphics 23030 Graphics 15905 Graphics 12288
Physics 3752 Physics 3805 Physics 3779
Combined 10752 Combined 9319 Combined 8189

Fire Strike

Graphics 2954 Graphics 2203 Graphics 1851
Physics 5306 Physics 5352 Physics 5355
Combined 2327 Combined 2052 Combined 1709

*Observations and Conclusions*

As mentioned in Tom's Hardware's review of A10-7850's Dual Graphics, the dropped frames were very much apparent in the Fire Strike Combined Test, and truly looked much worse than tests with Dual Graphics OFF/IGP Only despite the higher score. Everything looks bad in that test however.

I'm sure if the R7 250 core clock can be pushed higher, the IGP core could be also be raised in a Dual Graphics setup. That'll have to wait for next time.

I really want to bring the Northbridge frequency up to par with my memory. If anyone has any tips for reaching 2100MHz or higher, please message me.

I think the most important thing to take away from this is, if you're looking for a cheap way to make a high-end gaming rig, you're going to be disappointed. With that said, with Dual Graphics you get a well-priced mid-range PC, Mantle, and future-proofing for HUMA and HSA. That's a pretty good deal. Some really high scores on 3DMark use this chip with the 290X. Trading up to a R9 290, 290X or whatever the future may bring is where you can rest assured that you can upgrade a year from now, and still have something top of the line if you desire.


----------



## ohyouknow

Gotta say nice work. I was thinking of pairing up my 7850K in dual graphics but spending the extra cash on a 250 doesn't really have me chomping at the bit after your analysis. I'll probably just pop in my ole' 6770 in the meantime for extra umph until drivers and support get there.

Have any benches on games by chance? Tomb Raider/Bioshock Infinite bench? Even subjective ones?


----------



## aargos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Use the beta BIOS, you'll likely be able to run the XMP profile for 2400.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Use the beta BIOS, you'll likely be able to run the XMP profile for 2400.


I updated my BIOS as suggested and tried using XMP but windows crashes shortly after getting to the desktop. I tried upping the NB voltage to +.102 but it didn't help. What other settings do I need to change to run at 2400 (using XMP or not)


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aargos*
> 
> I updated my BIOS as suggested and tried using XMP but windows crashes shortly after getting to the desktop. I tried upping the NB voltage to +.102 but it didn't help. What other settings do I need to change to run at 2400 (using XMP or not)


Check there are no manual settings still residing in BIOS from your previous 2133 tweaking, particularly the timings, although I would think the latest BIOS flash would have reverted everything to defaults. Verify in the M.I.T. status they are using what they're rated for.

Other than that, not sure. The latest beta BIOS release on my (and others) Gigabyte boards allowed use of 2400 XMP profile without adjusting anything else.


----------



## aargos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Check there are no manual settings still residing in BIOS from your previous 2133 tweaking, particularly the timings, although I would think the latest BIOS flash would have reverted everything to defaults. Verify in the M.I.T. status they are using what they're rated for.
> 
> Other than that, not sure. The latest beta BIOS release on my (and others) Gigabyte boards allowed use of 2400 XMP profile without adjusting anything else.


The timings were adjusted by the XMP profile.

The timings listed for my gskill Ares memory to operate at 2400 are:

11 13 13 31 1.65v

Aside from using the XMP profile, anybody have suggestions on what to set to get it to work given these timings/voltage?


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aargos*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Use the beta BIOS, you'll likely be able to run the XMP profile for 2400.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Use the beta BIOS, you'll likely be able to run the XMP profile for 2400.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I updated my BIOS as suggested and tried using XMP but windows crashes shortly after getting to the desktop. I tried upping the NB voltage to +.102 but it didn't help. What other settings do I need to change to run at 2400 (using XMP or not)
Click to expand...

I would check the heat of the Northbridge. On my gigabyte board it was labeled as System temp and was always mid 50s figured it was just another bug. Come to find out upon touching it the NB was super hot. So I took off the heatsink to find it was barely if not at all making any contact.

Mind you I could barely get to boot at 2133 with loose timings.

Now after taking off the sorry excuse for a thermal pad and putting some TIM there and a fan blowing, turned heat almost off in my house my NB temps are mid 20s and I am running 2400 speed ram at Cas 9 11 11 31. I have a rma board coming in though as I think the NB got damaged from no real heat dissipation.

Also XMP doesn't seem to work well for most and many people are just manually entering in the values.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aargos*
> 
> The timings were adjusted by the XMP profile.
> 
> The timings listed for my gskill Ares memory to operate at 2400 are:
> 
> 11 13 13 31 1.65v
> 
> Aside from using the XMP profile, anybody have suggestions on what to set to get it to work given these timings/voltage?


You could try bumping the dram voltage to 1.7-1.75 to see if that stabilizes your RAM at its rated speed. Shouldn't really be necessary but most kits nowadays are geared towards Intel setups and don't always play nice with AMD stuff.


----------



## ohyouknow

Hrmm. MSI Board just broke 6ghz. http://valid.canardpc.com/wwcaeu


----------



## NaroonGTX

For a sec, I was gonna say "that voltage can't be right, there's no way!" but then I saw it was done with just one core enabled.

Still, pretty impressive. Is the G45 available anywhere yet?


----------



## aargos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I would check the heat of the Northbridge. On my gigabyte board it was labeled as System temp and was always mid 50s figured it was just another bug. Come to find out upon touching it the NB was super hot. So I took off the heatsink to find it was barely if not at all making any contact.
> 
> Mind you I could barely get to boot at 2133 with loose timings.
> 
> Now after taking off the sorry excuse for a thermal pad and putting some TIM there and a fan blowing, turned heat almost off in my house my NB temps are mid 20s and I am running 2400 speed ram at Cas 9 11 11 31. I have a rma board coming in though as I think the NB got damaged from no real heat dissipation.
> 
> Also XMP doesn't seem to work well for most and many people are just manually entering in the values.


Using latest version of Easytune as I write this the system and cpu temps are both reporting 24, with some fluxuation for CPU. Not sure if in this case 'system' is the NB but I've looked at several temp programs (coretemp, HW monitor, etc) and I haven't seen any temp issues (as far as I understand anyway) and this is with my ram at 2133mhz.


----------



## drnilly007

Run prime blend test or custom and a good amount of ram and monitor system temp


----------



## MrMamba

So I literally just read through all posts again...haha... got some beneficial information, but still feel like I haven't gathered a consistent enough agreement on what *does* work at what settings... everything seems to focus on what *doesn't* work. I know it's part of the process, but it's a bit exhausting to need to parse through so much when the thread is, after all, titled "Overclock Guide," not "Overclock Problems." That's the end of my mini-rant, because I do see the merit in the problem-solving process, obviously... I'm sure someone will reference a few posts out of the 350+ here, but that's unreasonable to declare as a universal agreement/guide.

Has anyone found any success at the following speeds, and if so, what voltage and/or settings were used/disabled?

CPU: 4.3 GHz
RAM: 2400 MHz
iGPU: 920+ MHz

CPU Vcore? NB Core? Take the easy route with Memory and use XMP, or manually configure based on CPU-Z and/or Manufacturer specifications?

My motherboard is a Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H running BIOS v. F6b. I've seen this mobo mentioned a few times along with other Gigabyte mobos of the similar type, so I know there has to be some certain "safe" parameters at least to provide a baseline set of ranges or specific figures for people who aren't familiar with overclocking APUs in general, not just this particular one, or who don't need to get the absolute highest OC numbers.


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Has anyone found any success at the following speeds, and if so, what voltage and/or settings were used/disabled? CPU Vcore? NB Core? Take the easy route with Memory and use XMP, or manually configure based on CPU-Z and/or Manufacturer specifications?


4.5Ghz @ 1.45v and Extreme LLC. 960Mhz on the iGPU with Extreme NB LLC. XMP at 2400.
I think there's more to squeeze but at the voltages required (and better cooling) not worth the extra power use imo.
Little disappointed in the iGPU 960Mhz cap and CPU 3Ghz throttle but maybe that will be corrected with a future BIOS release. Would also be nice to see higher memory presets.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> 4.5Ghz @ 1.45v and Extreme LLC. 960Mhz on the iGPU with Extreme NB LLC. XMP at 2400.
> I think there's more to squeeze but at the voltages required (and better cooling) not worth the extra power use imo.
> Little disappointed in the iGPU 960Mhz cap and CPU 3Ghz throttle but maybe that will be corrected with a future BIOS release. Would also be nice to see higher memory presets.


Many thanks, sorry to have come off a bit ungrateful and needy! Literally just plugged that all in as a hail mary blind instruction from you and so far, booted into Windows 7 no problem. Running some stability tests soon for myself just to account for any role minor hardware deviations have... then gonna run a few benchmarks tonight to try to compare it to some other rigs I have/had... I should probably get to making my profile sometime soon...


----------



## slekkas

Hi guys. My setup is this:
Motherboard : ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+
CPU : A10-7850k
RAM : g.skill 2x4gb 2400
GPU : XFX R7 250 2GB ddr3
HDD: Kingston SSD v300 128gb.
CPU Cooler : scythe kozouti
OS: Windows 8.1 pro
Catalyst 14.2

Can anyone with similar setup provide overclock info? No matter what I try system becomes unstable. Another question I have is about mantle and dual graphics. When I have dual graphics enabled and I play with directx I get around 45-55 fps. I have enabled the option in ccc to view dual graphics logo and with directx I do see the logo when I play bf4. If I switch to mantle I get 30-33 fps and the dual graphics logo does not appear. Does this mean that dual graphics is not working in mantle or just frames are low?

After a clean Windows install I only installed the 14.2 drivers. Should I have installed the kavery 13.x drivers as well?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Thought you'd find these results interesting. All Fire Strike runs used the same system settings other than specified memory changes.
> 
> 1Gb UMA DDR3-1600 9 - 9 - 9 | 1394
> 1Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1631
> 2Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1621


Heres mine: 1759 cpu 4.2 1.35125 +.0175 offset actual full load 1.344 vcore normal LLC, iGPU 960 2gb UMA, NB 2000 1.2125 +.0575 offset normal LLC actual UNKNOWN , ddr3 2400 9-11-11-31 1T, 14.2 beta driver

Need a way to measure actual load NB core!

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1835612 For whatever reason the GPU clock does not stay at a constant during the 3 gpu tests but dips throughout. On stock it stays at a constant 720 so this also may be driver related. Even tried higher NB core

I thought everyone did benches on extreme. I know for Valley everyone compares extreme

CPU-Z http://valid.canardpc.com/f1adlq


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I thought everyone did benches on extreme. I know for Valley everyone compares extreme


No sence in running extreme tests just because they use MSAA and it highly loads our slow memory and FPS seriously drops down.
Also no need in UMA more than 1 gb unless you are using FHD(or bigger resolution monitor) with MSAA enabled
(totally no speedup after 768mb on my 1680*1050 monitor with no MSAA)


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RabbitRu*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I thought everyone did benches on extreme. I know for Valley everyone compares extreme
> 
> 
> 
> No sence in running extreme tests just because they use MSAA and it highly loads our slow memory and FPS seriously drops down.
> Also no need in UMA more than 1 gb unless you are using FHD(or bigger resolution monitor) with MSAA enabled
> (totally no speedup after 768mb on my 1680*1050 monitor with no MSAA)
Click to expand...

Yes at your res you need less uma.

I wonder if the NB frequency correlates with uma size like gpu bit sizes.

Like the 660ti which is 192 bit and works well with 2gb ram but the 3gb variants don't because of incorrect division of the 192 bit bus x ram.

I run some more tests tonite with 1gb uma and various uma sizes on 1900 nb


----------



## RabbitRu

Spoiler: Offtopic,question to drnilly007



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I wonder if the NB frequency correlates with uma size like gpu bit sizes.
> 
> Like the 660ti which is 192 bit and works well with 2gb ram but the 3gb variants don't because of incorrect division of the 192 bit bus x ram.
> 
> I run some more tests tonite with 1gb uma and various uma sizes on 1900 nb


For me, as a student studying computer science, it sounds really strange,can I get a proof?
3gb\192b=3*1024*1024*1024*8b\192bits =134217708
2gb\192b=89478472
Both divisible without remainder


Well if there was correlation then it must be between 128bit memory bus and the size of UMA, or between memory\nb clocks.
I keep my CPU 4ghz,NB 2ghz,memory 2400mhz and iGPU 800mhz,everything divides by 400,cant see some magic boost throught

I tested my memory BW with aida 64,best score was with 2100mhz nb & 2520mhz DDR3 11-13-12 ,about 23500mb\sec read


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Heres mine: 1759 cpu 4.2 1.35125 +.0175 offset actual full load 1.344 vcore normal LLC, iGPU 960 2gb UMA, NB 2000 1.2125 +.0575 offset normal LLC actual UNKNOWN , ddr3 2400 9-11-11-31 1T, 14.2 beta driver
> 
> Need a way to measure actual load NB core!


With you on the actual measurements... so I wasn't able to stay 100% stable throughout at 4.5/960/2400, but it's a memory issue. I'm stable running 2x4GB, but not (2x)2x4GB of identical sticks, which happens. I'm more surprised that the XMP profiles are different for one set of my RAM than for the other, when they are the same according to the manufacturer... the timings aren't consistent with advertised numbers, might just be faulty ram...will be running Memtest on it soon but still annoying. I'll post all validations and such later, just running benches while I study for exams!


----------



## yraith

I have the A88X AsRock Extreme6+ mobo and ADAT 16Gig 2400 Ram... I had had a nightmare of a time with the BIOS, restarting, error codes, and general stableness the first couple days after installing the mobo. That is after I RMA'd replaced a DOA board. 2 Weeks of waiting... Anyhow, I used the UEFI internet BIOS update after getting tired of being PWNED. It updated (switched country) and has been stable. I was even able to use the XMP profile to get my RAM to 2400. The timings are on spec too. The problem is OC. My CPU freezes if I go too high. I thought I could have this unlocked APU climbing the OC, but .. meh. Don't know how to do it right. I am able to use A-Tuning software and have a stable 4.3.

Here is my cpuZ validation

I was planning to use my 7790 as a Dual Graphic set up, but my system gets totally unstable, and it won't work. I tried to bypass the R7 for the 7790 OC, but have had more stuttering and frame rates problem on BF4.

I hate being frantic spending the day troubleshooting. I like what I have.. It's a beautiful mobo.. (painted my case, got a Titan CPU heatsink.)







I think that since it is stable for now, I might keep it this way until I can afford a very large gfx card.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yraith*
> 
> I have the A88X AsRock Extreme6+ mobo and ADAT 16Gig 2400 Ram... I had had a nightmare of a time with the BIOS, restarting, error codes, and general stableness the first couple days after installing the mobo. That is after I RMA'd replaced a DOA board. 2 Weeks of waiting... Anyhow, I used the UEFI internet BIOS update after getting tired of being PWNED. It updated (switched country) and has been stable. I was even able to use the XMP profile to get my RAM to 2400. The timings are on spec too. The problem is OC. My CPU freezes if I go too high. I thought I could have this unlocked APU climbing the OC, but .. meh. Don't know how to do it right. I am able to use A-Tuning software and have a stable 4.3.
> 
> Here is my cpuZ validation
> 
> I was planning to use my 7790 as a Dual Graphic set up, but my system gets totally unstable, and it won't work. I tried to bypass the R7 for the 7790 OC, but have had more stuttering and frame rates problem on BF4.
> 
> I hate being frantic spending the day troubleshooting. I like what I have.. It's a beautiful mobo.. (painted my case, got a Titan CPU heatsink.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that since it is stable for now, I might keep it this way until I can afford a very large gfx card.


Not familiar with ASRock boards, but have you tried to avoid software tuning and do it right from the BIOS? I know you said you don't know how to do it right, so just curious...

Edit: Also, is the 7790 even supported for Dual Graphics? I know the 260x isn't according to the AMD rep that got back to me..


----------



## luminousone11

A88X AsRock Extreme6+, its VRM cooler is way to small, throw a fan over it and that otta help a bit.


----------



## yraith

http://1drv.ms/1dGssPj

This is my new rig... I painted the screens on my Rosewill Blackhawk copper.

So, the VRMs are too small? Hmm....

I have tried from the BIOS, but the unstableness when it doesn't work, which is very often, is very frustrating.


----------



## luminousone11

Quote:


> So, the VRMs are too small? Hmm....


No, The VRM's on that board are excellent,

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ASRock-FM2A88X-EXTREME6+/1823/6

The heatsink attached to them is tiny. They simply are not well cooled, and they do get hot, to hot infact when overclocking/overvolting.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yraith*
> 
> http://1drv.ms/1dGssPj
> 
> This is my new rig... I painted the screens on my Rosewill Blackhawk copper.
> 
> So, the VRMs are too small? Hmm....
> 
> I have tried from the BIOS, but the unstableness when it doesn't work, which is very often, is very frustrating.


If you have the time, I'd try to test each individual OC for stability while leaving the others alone...cool looking rig, btw.

What is your exact ram? I'm sorry if you posted it before at any point, multitasking here...


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Thought you'd find these results interesting. All Fire Strike runs used the same system settings other than specified memory changes.
> 
> 1Gb UMA DDR3-1600 9 - 9 - 9 | 1394
> 1Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1631
> 2Gb UMA DDR3-2400 11-13-13 | 1621
> 
> 
> 
> Heres mine: 1759 cpu 4.2 1.35125 +.0175 offset actual full load 1.344 vcore normal LLC, iGPU 960 2gb UMA, NB 2000 1.2125 +.0575 offset normal LLC actual UNKNOWN , ddr3 2400 9-11-11-31 1T, 14.2 beta driver
> 
> Need a way to measure actual load NB core!
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1835612 For whatever reason the GPU clock does not stay at a constant during the 3 gpu tests but dips throughout. On stock it stays at a constant 720 so this also may be driver related. Even tried higher NB core
> 
> I thought everyone did benches on extreme. I know for Valley everyone compares extreme
> 
> CPU-Z http://valid.canardpc.com/f1adlq
Click to expand...

So with same settings as above except

1900 NB and 1gb UMA I got 1754 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2630540
1900 NB 2gb UMA I got 1744 http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1840404

Funny how Funkz got 10 point difference between 1gb and 2gb too

2000 NB and 1gb UMA 1754 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2630600
Weird how the 100mhz difference didn't account for any points.


----------



## yraith

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> If you have the time, I'd try to test each individual OC for stability while leaving the others alone...cool looking rig, btw.
> 
> What is your exact ram? I'm sorry if you posted it before at any point, multitasking here...


1 x ($184.99) AMD A10-7850K Kaveri 3.7GHz Socket FM2+ 95W Quad-C $184.99
1 x ($154.99) ADATA XPG V2 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR $154.99
1 x ($104.99) ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X $104.99


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RabbitRu*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Offtopic,question to drnilly007
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> I wonder if the NB frequency correlates with uma size like gpu bit sizes.
> 
> Like the 660ti which is 192 bit and works well with 2gb ram but the 3gb variants don't because of incorrect division of the 192 bit bus x ram.
> 
> I run some more tests tonite with 1gb uma and various uma sizes on 1900 nb
> 
> 
> 
> For me, as a student studying computer science, it sounds really strange,can I get a proof?
> 3gb\192b=3*1024*1024*1024*8b\192bits =134217708
> 2gb\192b=89478472
> Both divisible without remainder
> 
> I cant find the exact source I read it from but it has to do with the size of each memory chip itself and how many chips used. It was when I was researching 660ti's they have 2gb and 3gb.
> Not many cards if any use 1gb chips but 128, 256, and 512mb. GPUs typically run in dual channel with interleaving.
> 
> 
> Well if there was correlation then it must be between 128bit memory bus and the size of UMA, or between memory\nb clocks.
> I keep my CPU 4ghz,NB 2ghz,memory 2400mhz and iGPU 800mhz,everything divides by 400,cant see some magic boost throught
> 
> I tested my memory BW with aida 64,best score was with 2100mhz nb & 2520mhz DDR3 11-13-12 ,about 23500mb\sec read
Click to expand...


----------



## yraith

validation I was able to accomplish this ... after 6 or 7 bad starts..
The UEFI on this AsRock can only go up to 4.5 ... However the A-Tuning has headroom for 5.8 -- but, I don't want to try that just yet.


----------



## agrims

In as a proud owner of a A10 7850K. Waiting on the rest of my build...


----------



## luminousone11

I will be ordering the my 7850k Thursday, still split on which motherboard to get, up4, extreme 6 or msi.

I will be getting memory as well, 16gig of 2400 or 2600 depending on the board i choose.

Have a corsair 300r case and a h100i cooler ready to go for it already, and the rest of the parts will come from my phenom II 1090t box.

I have heard the MSI g45 board is only 4+2 vrm but am waiting to see how it performs in overclocks before i pass judgement.


----------



## agrims

I was dead set on the G45, especially when at CES it was clearly an 8+2 VRM, and was stated also as 8+2. Then the kind Goat Eater got an advance loaner to test, and it was curtains on my dreams. I kinda felt like the victim of a bad troll when that happened, or like a kid who just dropped his ice cream cone! But maybe, just maybe the Mosfets will be of high quality, and will allow for high OC's.


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> I was dead set on the G45, especially when at CES it was clearly an 8+2 VRM, and was stated also as 8+2. Then the kind Goat Eater got an advance loaner to test, and it was curtains on my dreams. I kinda felt like the victim of a bad troll when that happened, or like a kid who just dropped his ice cream cone! But maybe, just maybe the Mosfets will be of high quality, and will allow for high OC's.


what happened to this board?


----------



## Ashuiegi

what prog are you using to read temp ? real temp says it doen't reconize the hardware , hw info give negative / close to zero value , i have changed the cooler and i need a way to check that the temp are alright. easy tune 6 is heavy and only give me temp with slow refresh, no max/min etc etc , i need something more practical. any idea ?


----------



## yraith

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> what prog are you using to read temp ? real temp says it doen't reconize the hardware , hw info give negative / close to zero value , i have changed the cooler and i need a way to check that the temp are alright. easy tune 6 is heavy and only give me temp with slow refresh, no max/min etc etc , i need something more practical. any idea ?


I use Speccy for temp readings
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luminousone11*
> 
> I will be ordering the my 7850k Thursday, still split on which motherboard to get, up4, extreme 6 or msi.
> 
> I will be getting memory as well, 16gig of 2400 or 2600 depending on the board i choose.
> 
> Have a corsair 300r case and a h100i cooler ready to go for it already, and the rest of the parts will come from my phenom II 1090t box.
> 
> I have heard the MSI g45 board is only 4+2 vrm but am waiting to see how it performs in overclocks before i pass judgement.


After a BIOS update, this AsRock performs awesome. If you are a high tech OC'er, then this is the board. Otherwise I would go for MSI. I am using the beta driver 14.2 as well. Still get some frame stutter on BF4, but a lot less than before the OC and XMP profile.


----------



## agrims

Well besides the fact that it was marketed as an 8+2 at CES, and then not hardly a month later, it comes out as a 4+2, not much. I just won't buy it on principle, as the honorable thing to do was to do what you said, release it as 8+2. Explains why they went dark after CES though. Hell a blind rat could make out that it was 8+2 in the CES video's...


----------



## luminousone11

Yea I can't give my money to MSI if they are gunna pull bait and switch.

Which leaves it between the gigabyte up4 and the asrock extreme6+. Tho i am heavily leanen towards the asrock board, it has an excellent 8+2 vrm, tho i am tempted to look up third party vrm coolers with that board.

I will litely overclock 7850k at 4.2/4.3/4.4'ish area, igpu atleast 900, and memory as high as the board/cpu will let me take it.

I would buy 2 8gig 2666 cas 11 sticks to go with the asrock board.


----------



## RabbitRu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luminousone11*
> 
> I will litely overclock 7850k at 4.2/4.3/4.4'ish area, igpu atleast 900, and memory as high as the board/cpu will let me take it.


No need of 8+2 VRM for this lvl of overclock
I have an Asus A88XM-Plus with 4+2VRM and my daily runner is 4.2ghz CPU ,2520mhz memory ,1008 iGPU(FSB 105mhz) and as I tested iGPU can take 1100(and can boot 1200 but unstable,dont want to try higher voltage) and CPU be stable at 4.7-4.8ghz but it gets really hot so its not a daily driver unless u r gonna delid it ( I have a Zalman CNPS10X Optima)
VRMs are getting hot a bit but one silent 1000RPM cooler is enough for them (I can hold my fingers on the radiator and its just warm)


----------



## luminousone11

Its better to overbuild, I am in it as much for the gold premium Japanese caps as the VRM's themselves. More power stages doesn't just provide more power, its cleaner power to, so more stable in the long run.

And that Asus board is ugly as sin, worst color scheme ever!

That is one thing MSI got right, black and red makes for a nice looking board, and the dragon heatsinks add to the nice ascetic. But the vrm fail on that is just unacceptable.

The asrock, board a mix of soft grey and brown, well the pcb is block but the copper traces make it look brown. not a show case mobo, but at least not ugly.

The gigabyte board, black and red, but the logo's on the heatsinks have shiny silver lettering, nice looking board except for the heatsinks, but they have a good size/shape and are heatpipe connected. Also gigabyte board while only being 6+2, uses IR POWIR stages, which are excellent single chip replacements for the dual transistor setup most commonly used, they are more efficient and cooler, yet they also have the largest heatsink of all the fm2+ boards. I have no idea what the quality of the caps are on the gigabyte board however.


----------



## TheOt

Hi I'm new to this forum I want to share my experience with a10 7850k

I built this system for low power usage gaming.

So I have massively umdervoltaged the cpu.

My system pulls about 80w under full load.

Cpu has one compuit core disabled and is at 1.165v at 3.45ghz.

I had ram problems and judging by tis forum most people have had problems with their ram. I couldn't get it to run at 2400mhz (rated speed) I tryed everything lose timming 1.7v (max I can set) rasing the fsb. But what worked for me was lowering the fsb untill I found a stable speed I got it stable at 2300mhz. Timings are 12 13 13 36 I think.

Im runing the gpu at 411mhz I tested at 511 and its add on a about 2-3 fps and adds about 7w. My increase in ram speed hasn't help much. So I think 2133 mhz is plenty at these low speeds. I umdervoltaged my nb to 1.106v

I havent oced yet and probably wont till im very bord lol. I have a 23 month baby boy so I dont have much spare time lol.

Im gaming at max everything but res is 1280 by 720.


----------



## TheOt

To run 2 compuit cores I found needed to add more voltage to run both compuit cores and 2.6ghz is the max with the lowest voltage. I found it better for gaming to run 1 compuit core at 3.4ghz than 2 at a lower speed.

I also found that all @ stock 1600mhz ram bottlenecks the gpu so much that I got all most the same score in 3dmark06 with my gpu at 720mhz and at 411mhz


----------



## luminousone11

Quote:


> Well besides the fact that it was marketed as an 8+2 at CES,


Having seen the VRM naked, I can see that it is 4+2 with doublers, near as i can tell from the voltage regulator transistor count this thing is actually 8+3. Their are 22 voltage regulating transistors under those 2 heatsinks, 16 on the cpu side, and 6 on the nb side.


----------



## luminousone11

Ordered my parts today, 16gig of 2400 radeon memory(2x8), a10 7850k, and that msi board. will pair it with 270x 4g(also msi) that i already have, will have this in a corsair 300r with a h100i water cooler for cpu.

I will get back here with pics or something and tell yea how she goes.


----------



## By-Tor

Do these APU's run good on overclocked 1600mhz ram?

I have a extra set of Sammy's that will do [email protected] and wonder if that would be a good pairing with a 7700/7850 APU.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *By-Tor*
> 
> Do these APU's run good on overclocked 1600mhz ram?
> 
> I have a extra set of Sammy's that will do [email protected] and wonder if that would be a good pairing with a 7700/7850 APU.


I'm running 2 sets of 2x4GB 1600 RAM that does CL10 2400. Even though they ended up being two different versions of the same exact product (new timings on one set), my 7850k had no problem with that, neither did my gigabyte ga-f2a88xm-d3h board. I had to mess with the timings a bit but just got all 4 sticks running today at 10-12-12-31 @ 1.67v (sticks are actually at 1.65v, but the GA board seems to undervolt the number by .18 on my board). Granted, I got lucky and only had to bump the tRFC up on one set, the other timings were the same for the XMP profile (which is what I copied and then manually applied).

Point is--if it CAN hit 2400, then it'll be good. I've heard of some Kaveri chips not working at 2400, which is why it's officially at 2133. But in any situation, you should be able to use the sticks, especially if it's just one dual channel set (or one quad-channel set). Make sure you bump up that NB though. 2000 worked for me and has worked for most/many. Default (1800) booted into windows and ran every program well, but failed in a few stress tests and a couple BSOD. I wouldn't worry about timings as much, honestly. If I had to pick between loosening the timings or upping the voltage, I'd loosen the timings for these purposes (gaming/igpu optimization).


----------



## MrMamba

On another note, I remember reading somewhere (either here or elsewhere, been searching to find it again) that an R7 260x, while it won't run in true dual graphics mode, can be used as a discreet GPU and have the 7850k's iGPU act as a stand-alone PhysX card... not sure if this was theory or practice, though. If anyone knows, that'd be awesome. I have a 260x laying around doin' nadda and want to make use of it.


----------



## agrims

It's not just the R9 260X, but also the R9 290/X as well, as they are the only cards that currently support XDMA, and that is what is required for the bridgeless crossfire, allowing the cards to communicate via PCI lanes. This doesn't work fully yet but I have full faith that as HSA and hUMA matures as a "thing", that we will see APU and dGPU work as one unit through all aspects of computing. That is why a bridged card will never work with an APU, unless AMD retool's the way the cards can communicate, which honestly, between you, me, the wall, and people on here WAY smarter than I, they will probably figure that out as well, as the base for XDMA is there; ie the PCI bus.

We can see the 290/X work with the 7850K's iGPU currently even though you shouldn't, the benefits show in some tests.

an aside: If there is a company, or someone that has a huge heart, that could donate an R9 290 to a deployed member of the USN to the middle east for the purposes of testing this combo, I would be much obliged. Newegg and the likes want 15 arms and you're second born son between shipping to an FPO box, and just the markup.... There is NO WAY I will be paying $1,000.00 between the card and shipping, not for a card that should be going for $399.99...... All I want is a 290 for my birthday in April....
















I got my Gigabyte A88X board coming in soon, can't wait for that thing, so I can at a minimum test the A10-7850K and the board!


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> It's not just the R9 260X, but also the R9 290/X as well, as they are the only cards that currently support XDMA, and that is what is required for the bridgeless crossfire, allowing the cards to communicate via PCI lanes. This doesn't work fully yet but I have full faith that as HSA and hUMA matures as a "thing", that we will see APU and dGPU work as one unit through all aspects of computing. That is why a bridged card will never work with an APU, unless AMD retool's the way the cards can communicate, which honestly, between you, me, the wall, and people on here WAY smarter than I, they will probably figure that out as well, as the base for XDMA is there; ie the PCI bus.
> 
> We can see the 290/X work with the 7850K's iGPU currently even though you shouldn't, the benefits show in some tests.
> 
> an aside: If there is a company, or someone that has a huge heart, that could donate an R9 290 to a deployed member of the USN to the middle east for the purposes of testing this combo, I would be much obliged. Newegg and the likes want 15 arms and you're second born son between shipping to an FPO box, and just the markup.... There is NO WAY I will be paying $1,000.00 between the card and shipping, not for a card that should be going for $399.99...... All I want is a 290 for my birthday in April....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got my Gigabyte A88X board coming in soon, can't wait for that thing, so I can at a minimum test the A10-7850K and the board!


Thanks for the information! I did eventually find what I was looking for (same thing, essentially), but you did provide a great perspective on it. First off, wish I could help on the birthday gpu, I'd buy it for you if I could, be safe out there! Unfortunately, law school has charged me it's version of 15 arms and the like...ha...

Any idea about current use benefit of a 260x with the 7850k? I'm assuming your post is looking forward to what's to come, correct me if I'm wrong! Because if there is a use to them together with respect to the igpu, I'd like to fiddle with how OC'ing the igpu translates


----------



## Alecx

I have a question.
My 7700K will run at 4Ghz at 1.275volts (that's the minimum voltage I can set in bios) no problems while the thermal margin will not drop under 54"C. At 4.4Ghz at 1.425volts the thermal margin will go as low as 41"C. What it's the minimum thermal margin I can go?


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> I have a question.
> My 7700K will run at 4Ghz at 1.275volts (that's the minimum voltage I can set in bios) no problems while the thermal margin will not drop under 54"C. At 4.4Ghz at 1.425volts the thermal margin will go as low as 41"C. What it's the minimum thermal margin I can go?


Not to sound sarcastic, because I really am not...but wouldn't it be 0?

The Thermal Margin is AMD's variation of CPU's temperature until outside its operational limit, right? So you haven't tapped the chip out until it hits 0, technically... granted, I wouldn't like to be more than 10 or 15. Nor do I think you can hit a high enough OC on the cpu to warrant going down to that, seems to me like the chip has some headroom in the thermal margin, maybe for a revision? But I could be wrong--this is just from my own testing...


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> I have a question.
> My 7700K will run at 4Ghz at 1.275volts (that's the minimum voltage I can set in bios) no problems while the thermal margin will not drop under 54"C. At 4.4Ghz at 1.425volts the thermal margin will go as low as 41"C. What it's the minimum thermal margin I can go?


"OFF"

Thermal margin is the top ceiling of a chip, once you pass it, it could cause damage to the silicon, causing it to fail. As far as minimal margin, the correct answer is above in quotes. You probably could go as low as 35C with a good quality custom loop.
Also, just an FYI, as it seems as though you may be a bit confused by the definition of Thermal Margin, as the number goes down, that means you are getting hotter on the chip. So 54C margin means you have 54C more to go before event horizon, where with 41C, you have 41C more to go.

I personally am an abuser of the thermal margin, so my poor Athlon X4 750K for example has been above and beyond the call of duty!


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Thanks for the information! I did eventually find what I was looking for (same thing, essentially), but you did provide a great perspective on it. First off, wish I could help on the birthday gpu, I'd buy it for you if I could, be safe out there! Unfortunately, law school has charged me it's version of 15 arms and the like...ha...
> 
> Any idea about current use benefit of a 260x with the 7850k? I'm assuming your post is looking forward to what's to come, correct me if I'm wrong! Because if there is a use to them together with respect to the igpu, I'd like to fiddle with how OC'ing the igpu translates


I would say get one now, hell they are cheap enough. There is a benefit with them to an extent, look at the other A10-7850K forum and you will see a guy that has 3 260X's in Xfire, and they also show a benefit with the iGPU. I am a believer that if more people jump on the boat with this new fangled tech, AMD will have more room to flex their barganing muscle with their HSA/hUMA partners, and possibly shape the landscape to come for ALL tech. It seems that Nvidia and Intel have been to resistant for too long to have a say now, and at a minimum, AMD has been a good steward of this initiative, making it a FREE, OPEN-SOURCE code. This may be the thing we have all been waiting for honestly, reliable Linux gaming on AMD solutions, and having the big titles port to Linux!!!!!


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> I would say get one now, hell they are cheap enough. There is a benefit with them to an extent, look at the other A10-7850K forum and you will see a guy that has 3 260X's in Xfire, and they also show a benefit with the iGPU. I am a believer that if more people jump on the boat with this new fangled tech, AMD will have more room to flex their barganing muscle with their HSA/hUMA partners, and possibly shape the landscape to come for ALL tech. It seems that Nvidia and Intel have been to resistant for too long to have a say now, and at a minimum, AMD has been a good steward of this initiative, making it a FREE, OPEN-SOURCE code. This may be the thing we have all been waiting for honestly, reliable Linux gaming on AMD solutions, and having the big titles port to Linux!!!!!


Oh, I have the 260x in as we speak =D decided to just throw it in there, but I disabled the igpu--gonna go look for that forum...


----------



## agrims

**Forum thread, it is the I have a custom looped Kaveri and I am your guinea pig thread.


----------



## ohyouknow

Even though the 260X is confirmed by AMD to not support dual graphics. Does anyone have speculation about future updates and possibility of future DG with it? I'd like to fiddle around with my Kaveri on Dual Graphics but if 250 is the highest it will go ever then I guess no choice. Most likely wishful thinking on my part but what does everyone else think?


----------



## Alecx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Not to sound sarcastic, because I really am not...but wouldn't it be 0?
> 
> The Thermal Margin is AMD's variation of CPU's temperature until outside its operational limit, right? So you haven't tapped the chip out until it hits 0, technically... granted, I wouldn't like to be more than 10 or 15. Nor do I think you can hit a high enough OC on the cpu to warrant going down to that, seems to me like the chip has some headroom in the thermal margin, maybe for a revision? But I could be wrong--this is just from my own testing...


You are right, I give you that. I just thought that there is a thermal margin I shouldn't go past. I know that on my older 2500K I needed to stay under 72"C package and under 100"C on cores.
I was able to push it at 4.7Ghz at 1.57volts but the thermal margin under prime was ~9"C and the heat coming from the top fans of my case was noticeable!


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> You are right, I give you that. I just thought that there is a thermal margin I shouldn't go past. I know that on my older 2500K I needed to stay under 72"C package and under 100"C on cores.
> I was able to push it at 4.7Ghz at 1.57volts but the thermal margin under prime was ~9"C and the heat coming from the top fans of my case was noticeable!


Eek, I cringe at the single digit margins...must be the wussy in me! 4.7 at 1.57...that 1.57 scares me, but good to see some non-review 4.5ghz+. Not sure how high I can bump mine up to be frank--until I can get really on-point monitoring going on of temperatures, although my concerns with this being an mATX board haven't really materialized...it seems pretty well made.

My thermal margin never drops below 60 on my "always on" configuration, which is 4.3ghz @ 1.38v and 2400mhz @ 1.67(1.65)v... probably since I have 4 140mm fans and an H60 in push/pull with two SP120's on this APU...haha...or I'm just misinformed or getting the wrong read-outs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> **Forum thread, it is the I have a custom looped Kaveri and I am your guinea pig thread.


Found it and read it, really great thread. I'm still trying to parse through specific posts to find out how they went about enabling it, what port was used, etc.--but definitely reassuring to have read it. Only wish it wasn't 2x the length of this thread...







Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## agrims

Insert super awesome mega smashup shortcut.... Plug display cable to mobo, insert veeerrryyyy nioce 260/X or beastly 290/X, enjoy the power of XDMA it its infancy!


----------



## Alecx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Eek, I cringe at the single digit margins...must be the wussy in me! 4.7 at 1.57...that 1.57 scares me, but good to see some non-review 4.5ghz+. Not sure how high I can bump mine up to be frank--until I can get really on-point monitoring going on of temperatures, although my concerns with this being an mATX board haven't really materialized...it seems pretty well made.
> 
> My thermal margin never drops below 60 on my "always on" configuration, which is 4.3ghz @ 1.38v and 2400mhz @ 1.67(1.65)v... probably since I have 4 140mm fans and an H60 in push/pull with two SP120's on this APU...haha...or I'm just misinformed or getting the wrong read-outs.
> Found it and read it, really great thread. I'm still trying to parse through specific posts to find out how they went about enabling it, what port was used, etc.--but definitely reassuring to have read it. Only wish it wasn't 2x the length of this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!


I have 6 x 120 mm fans on the case (Corsair AF120 @ 50 CFM each, 3 in , 3 out) and my cooler, a Thermalright TRUE Spirit has 2 x 120mm Noctua PWM fans on it. And the only way I can keep my cpu above 60 thermal margin it's to downclock it at 2Ghz with ~0.7volts (from Overdrive but at reboot it will still be 1.275v). In daily use it will never drop under 55 thermal margin and that's fine for me.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> Insert super awesome mega smashup shortcut.... Plug display cable to mobo, insert veeerrryyyy nioce 260/X or beastly 290/X, enjoy the power of XDMA it its infancy!


Check your PMs, I've elaborated on what I'm about to say, but I can't seem to get the 260x to show up simultaneously with the R7 iGPU in CCC. Is the XDMA use not through this? I've done as much as I feel as I can intuitively figure out on my Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. Plugging in the display into the GPU vs the mobo port switches the display.

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I really want to see what the iGPU can do here, particularly if I can OC it further than it normally could without the combo.


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> I have 6 x 120 mm fans on the case (Corsair AF120 @ 50 CFM each, 3 in , 3 out) and my cooler, a Thermalright TRUE Spirit has 2 x 120mm Noctua PWM fans on it. And the only way I can keep my cpu above 60 thermal margin it's to downclock it at 2Ghz with ~0.7volts (from Overdrive but at reboot it will still be 1.275v). In daily use it will never drop under 55 thermal margin and that's fine for me.


Hmm... my 4 are AF140s. If it works well enough for you, it works, but I feel like you should be getting 60 thermal margin at stock with the proper cooling configuration, let alone having to downclock... but maybe I'm underestimating the H60 here or I just got a decent chip.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alecx*
> 
> I have 6 x 120 mm fans on the case (Corsair AF120 @ 50 CFM each, 3 in , 3 out) and my cooler, a Thermalright TRUE Spirit has 2 x 120mm Noctua PWM fans on it. And the only way I can keep my cpu above 60 thermal margin it's to downclock it at 2Ghz with ~0.7volts (from Overdrive but at reboot it will still be 1.275v). In daily use it will never drop under 55 thermal margin and that's fine for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... my 4 are AF140s. If it works well enough for you, it works, but I feel like you should be getting 60 thermal margin at stock with the proper cooling configuration, let alone having to downclock... but maybe I'm underestimating the H60 here or I just got a decent chip.
Click to expand...

That and I notice that with the iGPU disabled temps are about 5c lower . Im at 4.2 1.35v on a CM 120V with one fan.

For monitoring I would like some realtime values of the NB voltage.


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMamba*
> 
> Check your PMs, I've elaborated on what I'm about to say, but I can't seem to get the 260x to show up simultaneously with the R7 iGPU in CCC. Is the XDMA use not through this? I've done as much as I feel as I can intuitively figure out on my Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. Plugging in the display into the GPU vs the mobo port switches the display.
> 
> I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I really want to see what the iGPU can do here, particularly if I can OC it further than it normally could without the combo.


Firstly, I will ask you to read the other forum, as it states that while it works in some programs, there is no official support through DG yet. The power of XDMA is in the communication of APU/dGPU through the PCI lanes. Try AIDA 64, it will show you that it is working.


----------



## joeybuddy96

I have an Extreme6+ and 4x8GB sticks of Team Xtreem. I can't get it past 1866MHz. My Supernova melted when I tried to set it to NB 1.3V and 1.8V DDR3, but I got a new one through EVGA's RMA. I've tried loosening timings, but without a complete chart for timings, it's possible there's a desync or timing failure. I set the NB to 2000MHz at 1.3V, and it's stable with its current 1866MHz settings. Since the sticks can get to 2133MHz on a 6800K Gigabyte platform, and since others in the thread have gotten the EX6+ to 2400MHz with 4GB sticks, I'm thinking the reason is that the 7850 can't handle 8GB sticks at greater than 1866MHz. I've been trying to get this to work for like ten hours.


----------



## rebelextrm02

For a 24/7 build, would it be better to run my little brothers A10-7850K build using 2133mhz 11-11-11-27 @ 1.5v, 10-10-10-27 @ 1.6v, or 9-12-11-27 @ 1.65v?

All above clocks are tested to be completely stable. There is a very slight performance increase between each timing configuration. I'm not sure if the extra voltage would cause any measurable extra stress on the package over time. I know the newer Intel platforms are more sensitive to ram voltages over 1.5v. I can't find much consensus on the AMD APUs. I'm trying make this as bullet proof as possible for him while being optimized. Opinions?


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeybuddy96*
> 
> I have an Extreme6+ and 4x8GB sticks of Team Xtreem. I can't get it past 1866MHz. My Supernova melted when I tried to set it to NB 1.3V and 1.8V DDR3, but I got a new one through EVGA's RMA. I've tried loosening timings, but without a complete chart for timings, it's possible there's a desync or timing failure. I set the NB to 2000MHz at 1.3V, and it's stable with its current 1866MHz settings. Since the sticks can get to 2133MHz on a 6800K Gigabyte platform, and since others in the thread have gotten the EX6+ to 2400MHz with 4GB sticks, I'm thinking the reason is that the 7850 can't handle 8GB sticks at greater than 1866MHz. I've been trying to get this to work for like ten hours.


It can it just the NB. What ram? Is it set to 1t or 2t? XMP? 1.8 ram voltage is too high.

I have problems with my 2400 gskills cas 9 even with looser timings than stock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rebelextrm02*
> 
> For a 24/7 build, would it be better to run my little brothers A10-7850K build using 2133mhz 11-11-11-27 @ 1.5v, 10-10-10-27 @ 1.6v, or 9-12-11-27 @ 1.65v?
> 
> All above clocks are tested to be completely stable. There is a very slight performance increase between each timing configuration. I'm not sure if the extra voltage would cause any measurable extra stress on the package over time. I know the newer Intel platforms are more sensitive to ram voltages over 1.5v. I can't find much consensus on the AMD APUs. I'm trying make this as bullet proof as possible for him while being optimized. Opinions?


What speed? Did you overclock the NB?

Also wondering if anyone else overclocked cpu setting fluctuate a lot. In cpuz my multi goes from 42 to 35 every couple of seconds running prime. Also the FSB fluctuates a lot too?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeybuddy96*
> 
> I have an Extreme6+ and 4x8GB sticks of Team Xtreem. I can't get it past 1866MHz. My Supernova melted when I tried to set it to NB 1.3V and 1.8V DDR3, but I got a new one through EVGA's RMA. I've tried loosening timings, but without a complete chart for timings, it's possible there's a desync or timing failure. I set the NB to 2000MHz at 1.3V, and it's stable with its current 1866MHz settings. Since the sticks can get to 2133MHz on a 6800K Gigabyte platform, and since others in the thread have gotten the EX6+ to 2400MHz with 4GB sticks, I'm thinking the reason is that the 7850 can't handle 8GB sticks at greater than 1866MHz. I've been trying to get this to work for like ten hours.


Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with 4MB vs 8 GB ram sticks. It has everything to do with using all 4 ram modules. Try two sticks and all should be well. Also no need for 1.3 volts NB at 2000 mhz. Lower it a bit.


----------



## rebelextrm02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> It can it just the NB. What ram? Is it set to 1t or 2t? XMP? 1.8 ram voltage is too high.
> 
> I have problems with my 2400 gskills cas 9 even with looser timings than stock.
> What speed? Did you overclock the NB?
> 
> Also wondering if anyone else overclocked cpu setting fluctuate a lot. In cpuz my multi goes from 42 to 35 every couple of seconds running prime. Also the FSB fluctuates a lot too?


2133mhz for each set of different timings and voltage. I've only adjusted the frequency, timings, and voltage of the memory. Everything else (cpu, nb, etc..) is stock voltage and frequency.


----------



## joeybuddy96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> It can it just the NB. What ram? Is it set to 1t or 2t? XMP? 1.8 ram voltage is too high.
> 
> I have problems with my 2400 gskills cas 9 even with looser timings than stock.
> What speed? Did you overclock the NB?
> 
> Also wondering if anyone else overclocked cpu setting fluctuate a lot. In cpuz my multi goes from 42 to 35 every couple of seconds running prime. Also the FSB fluctuates a lot too?


The NB is set to 2000MHz, 1.3V. I haven't been able to get it to 2200MHz with the voltage at 1.3V, and I haven't seen anyone else set the voltage and speed higher. I'm using two sets of Team Xtreem LV 16GB TXD316G2400HC10QDC01, 4x8GB. 2T. Yes, it has an XMP profile, but it is for DDR3-2400, and I haven't even gotten DDR3-2133 to work. Definitely, 1.8V is too high, as my supernova'd supernova can attest; 1.72V is the highest safe voltage I've seen, although I have seen others run higher voltages past 2.1V (how they did this without melting capacitors in their PSU, I might never know). Is it possible that the CPU multi is fluctuating due to Turbo Core (the auto-overclocking based on application demand)?
Quote:


> For a 24/7 build, would it be better to run my little brothers A10-7850K build using 2133mhz 11-11-11-27 @ 1.5v, 10-10-10-27 @ 1.6v, or 9-12-11-27 @ 1.65v?
> 
> All above clocks are tested to be completely stable.


Are you using 4GB or 8GB sticks? What motherboard are you using? Could you post your full timings?
Quote:


> Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with 4MB vs 8 GB ram sticks. It has everything to do with using all 4 ram modules. Try two sticks and all should be well. Also no need for 1.3 volts NB at 2000 mhz. Lower it a bit.


That's good news and bad news. Means I'll have to trade off capacity for speed for a performance hit in certain applications. I'd probably notice it in texture-heavy games and games with a bunch of objects. I'd also notice it with large file handling programs, and in 3D modeling and fluids simulation. One of the reasons I got 32GB instead of 16GB was so that I could run RAMDisk; 16GB wouldn't be enough to mount an OS and an application. I guess I'll just have to alternate between the four and two depending on what application I need to do. I'll run measurement tests once I have an OS installed, of course. It'll have to do until the 7850 gets higher bandwidth.


----------



## joeybuddy96

I used the same sticks in a Gigabyte FM2 (not FM2+) system, instead of an ASRock system, with a 6800K instead of a 7850K, and was able to get 2133MHz 11-11-11-29 with about 1.6V.
The ASRock board is not flexible when it comes to adjusting certain timings: Write Recovery Time (tWR) has a maximum setting of 16, whereas the 2400 XMP profile specifies 18. It allows Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC) only to be set in pre-defined increments (e.g. 300 ns and 350 ns), instead of what the XMP profile specifies at 315 ns.
With the ASRock, I was only able to get it to boot into 2400 when it had two sticks present. The EX6+ doesn't include a setting for 2600MHz or higher.

Update:
Here are my settings with two sticks of 2400MHz 8GB Team Xtreem on an Extreme6+ with a 7850K, stock heatsink, and a XL R2 case (I left the side cover off for testing since I wanted to be able to see the error codes). Keep in mind that none of this is under load--it's idle in the UEFI, without an OS installed. It more accurately represents the maximum the parts can achieve with stock settings. I haven't gotten to OC'ing my GPU, so that's going to affect thermals too.
CPU OC Mode
4400MHz
Auto
Auto
Disabled
Disabled
Manual
44 (I've read reviews where raising the multiplier stopped at 44 due to failure at 45, and I've seen others get stable systems at 46, so I'll leave the maximum at 45 and wait to see how it fairs in testing. It's possible that the reason they couldn't get it higher was due to trying to use the iGP. I still haven't started to OC the discrete GPU I have, so I'm going to leave it at 45 so I'll have some room to raise the voltage and speed of the PCIe section. Update 2: Returned after leaving the system at the UEFI to find it locked up with Dr. Debug error code 0d, so I lowered it to 44.)
Internal
1.45V
0V
x10
1.2875V (got a screen flicker on transition into the UEFI at 1.275V, and after another 0d, this was one of the settings I brought back up.)
Auto
Auto
XMP 1.3 Profile 1
DDR3-2400
1.66V (I don't see any reason to go lower. That's its factory rating--if it dies, it won't be because of the voltage. Update 3: after I came back to a 0d, this was one of the settings I put back to its higher setting for stability.)
8 (got a screen flicker when lower than 8) 10 (3b'd at 9) 12 (3b'd at 11) 10 (4F'd at 9) 23 (when set lower with RAS# Cycle Time, 3b'd) 2T (34'd I think at 1T) 33 (when set lower than 32 with RAS# Active Time, 3b'd; Update 3: raised it to 33 after it 0d'd) 8 (06'd at 6) 300ns (The Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings other than the pre-defined increments) 4 (Again, ASrock limitation; it cannot be set lower than 4) 5 (3b'd at 4) 5 (the Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings lower than 4; Update 3: this is one of the settings I raised back up after a 0d screen lock) 18 (when set to 16, froze in the UEFI with Dr. Debug error code "0C")


----------



## drnilly007

EVERYONE I CREATED A NEW GUIDE WITH GOOD INSTRUCTIONS ON KAVERI HERE:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/0_50


----------



## MrMamba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeybuddy96*
> 
> The NB is set to 2000MHz, 1.3V. I haven't been able to get it to 2200MHz with the voltage at 1.3V, and I haven't seen anyone else set the voltage and speed higher. I'm using two sets of Team Xtreem LV 16GB TXD316G2400HC10QDC01, 4x8GB. 2T. Yes, it has an XMP profile, but it is for DDR3-2400, and I haven't even gotten DDR3-2133 to work. Definitely, 1.8V is too high, as my supernova'd supernova can attest; 1.72V is the highest safe voltage I've seen, although I have seen others run higher voltages past 2.1V (how they did this without melting capacitors in their PSU, I might never know). Is it possible that the CPU multi is fluctuating due to Turbo Core (the auto-overclocking based on application demand)?
> Are you using 4GB or 8GB sticks? What motherboard are you using? Could you post your full timings?
> That's good news and bad news. Means I'll have to trade off capacity for speed for a performance hit in certain applications. I'd probably notice it in texture-heavy games and games with a bunch of objects. I'd also notice it with large file handling programs, and in 3D modeling and fluids simulation. One of the reasons I got 32GB instead of 16GB was so that I could run RAMDisk; 16GB wouldn't be enough to mount an OS and an application. I guess I'll just have to alternate between the four and two depending on what application I need to do. I'll run measurement tests once I have an OS installed, of course. It'll have to do until the 7850 gets higher bandwidth.


I'm running 2 sets of 2x4GB @ 2400. If you want to get two sets of RAM stable, you really need to check every timing to ensure they are the same--there's a good chance they wouldn't be (mine were not). Set it to the XMP profile, look at the timings for the "slower" modules, match all timings to that of the slower timings, and even loosen the timings a bit more on both channels if you ask me--using iGPU really focuses on the RAM speed more than the timings, if you ask me. I run it at 1.67 voltage in the BIOS since my mobo seems to undervolt. But that's still no guarantee they'll work--it just does for me.


----------



## NonToxic628

Hey guys,

I'm having a slight issue with my new build. For one reason or another, I cannot get the 7850 to clock higher than the idle speeds of 1.7ghz. This is regardless of what settings I use on my motherboard. I did have the cpu overclocked to 4.2ghz yesterday and everything was fine. I however decided to go back to default settings as I wanted to run some benchmarks to see how great of an improvement I was truly seeing.

I'm using the MSI A88x-G45 Gaming board along with some Kingston Hyper X Beast sticks that are currently running at 2400mhz with the xmp profile.

I have tried disabling some things like quiet and cool but that hasn't helped me at all.

I'm hoping someone has some thoughts on what I may need to do here.



Thanks


----------



## MartinSkyfall

CPU - 4200, Memory - 2400 (10-12-12-31), NB - 2000, GPU - 960.
I wonder, what i will get with CPU more than 4200, and GPU around 1000 - 1100.


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NonToxic628*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm having a slight issue with my new build. For one reason or another, I cannot get the 7850 to clock higher than the idle speeds of 1.7ghz. This is regardless of what settings I use on my motherboard. I did have the cpu overclocked to 4.2ghz yesterday and everything was fine. I however decided to go back to default settings as I wanted to run some benchmarks to see how great of an improvement I was truly seeing.
> 
> I'm using the MSI A88x-G45 Gaming board along with some Kingston Hyper X Beast sticks that are currently running at 2400mhz with the xmp profile.
> 
> I have tried disabling some things like quiet and cool but that hasn't helped me at all.
> 
> I'm hoping someone has some thoughts on what I may need to do here.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Check here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/0_50


----------



## Lolliedieb

Hi all,

When seeing the voltages presented in this thread I somehow start wondering about what my computer displays.
For example my BIOS says that default CPU voltage is 1.45v and my monitoring tools (I installes AMD OD, CPUz and Sandra) tell me that my default NB voltage is 1.3v - all of this at stock settings.

(By the way my system is an A10-7850k on an ASRock fm2a88x-itx+ board)

In my opinion the voltages are rather high and I wonder if that realy can be stock voltages. On the other hand I failed to raise the iGPU Clock beyond 720 mhz without increasing the NB voltage. Raising it by 0.018v was enough to get it stable at 800 mhz, but now I am close to 1.32v on my NB - that seems pretty much.

I am not so experienced at OC, so my question is: Is it possible that certain boards tell me I have a higher CPU / NB voltage than another board would do at stock? So does stock voltage massively depends on what is given on the board and can I assume that +0.02v Nb or even +0.05v is save? My CPU seems to behave normal to the "+Xv " terms, but it shows pretty high voltages in absolute values.

By the way: is there any reliant way of temperature measurement? Every tool tells me something different and I don't know what to believe. Bios says I am about 45°C when I fix my clock so it can not down-clock any more (Cooler Master all in one water cooler with 120mm fan) - that seems fine for me so far.

Thanks for your help

Edit: I wanted to add: Has anyone an advice on how to became 2400mhz ram stable? I have Kingston HyperX Beasts here, specified to DDR3-2400 @ 1.65v, but currently I have difficulties getting them stable. There was a voltage bug in the 2133mhz preset to (my board made it running 1.5v instead of specified 1.65v), but since I changed that manually 2133 is pretty rock-stable (3dMark, Furmark, 3hours of continuous playing Anno 2070)...


----------



## Abyssmal

Hello, OCN!

I'm new member to the board, but been lurking since forever. My hello thread here - http://www.overclock.net/t/1475843/hello-from-some-old-bones

So I got this new AMD fancy stuff, lol. Info in the sig. Not even bothered to put more than one fan on the MCR320. Temps are fine, if not great - 33/46 idle/load for hours @ stock.
What I managed till now:
CPU - later
NB 2000MHz @ 1.275 (default?)
Ram - boots @ 2400 10-12-12-31-1T, not stable test 8 of Memtest86
iGPU - 1028MHz on stock volts from bios - stable Vantage, Furmark, Assassin's creed (lol?)

So here come the questions as I am a bit rusty on the last 5 years of AMD:
Can the ram/imc do @ CR1 2400+MHz at all? ver.3.24
Also which slots are best for overclock? Should be A1-B1, but manual is contradictory.
As the SB and the mosfets get hell-hot - should I put them under water too, or is a 120mm fan blowing at them @ 1000rpm doing fine?
What is the rated 7700K voltage? 1.325? 1.350? Asrock cannot decide on that.

EDIT: So I decided to move the memory on A2-B2 -booted @2400 with XMP timings and stock 1.675V. I am now stable 3D (Vantage, Fur), memtest86, HCI, 32M.







Anything lower than 1.675 is stable everywhere, except for 3D.

Really strange how memtest86 4 full passes, prime95 for an hour, and 32M are stable, but not 3D.Any thoughts on that, mates?


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lolliedieb*
> 
> Edit: I wanted to add: Has anyone an advice on how to became 2400mhz ram stable? I have Kingston HyperX Beasts here, specified to DDR3-2400 @ 1.65v, but currently I have difficulties getting them stable. There was a voltage bug in the 2133mhz preset to (my board made it running 1.5v instead of specified 1.65v), but since I changed that manually 2133 is pretty rock-stable (3dMark, Furmark, 3hours of continuous playing Anno 2070)...


Hello!

After quite some time spent testing (and reading through all posts in this thread, which isn't easy due to lots of pointless arguing), I managed to run 2400mhz ram stable by increasing DRAM voltage, otherwise I ended at 2133 with quite loose timings. I use Kingston PredatorX 2666mhz CL11 2x4GB, which are Hynix chips, just like your Beasts I believe and Hynix on AMD is known to require a little bit more love. However I only loaded XMP profile #2, which is 2400mhz 11-13-13-30 1T but at 1.695V ~1.7V. It appears stable after 1hour full strestest in AIDA64. Anything lower than 1.695V won't work longer than 15minutes. Ofcourse I haven't touched profile #1 at all...

About stock VID, I believe NB is at 1.275V on my MB (ASRock FM2A88X+ Killer with 1.70 BIOS) which seems quite high to me. Whatever the reason, I wouldn't go past 1.325V ~ 1.35 ever as I wouldn't go past 1.45V on 28nm CPU. People claim there are walls at 1.4V for NB and 1.55V for CPU, but that's just too much imo! Also minimal NB frequency for 2400mhz RAM is 1500mhz, so stock 1800mhz is aplenty. I run it at 2000mhz and 1.2875V atm, but no idea how it will behave after I start upping iGPU frequencies from stock.

*Edit:* It appears that stock VID on cpu is 1.325V for 3.7~4.0ghz, but only 1.25V on NB. Be careful with it since we cannot get actual reading of NB voltage and also take into consideration LLC (ASRock has reversed % on LLC it seems, extreme setting is 0% actually, while 100% is standard/auto).

On a side note, my 7850k throttles under iGPU load, just like others have reported (and there is nothing so far that worked for me to avoid it - sometimes it jumps to full speed for few seconds, but thats it). For gaming without dGPU, I would leave CPU side stock since it will throttle anyway, and just bump up RAM, iGPU and litte bit NB frequency to 2000mhz as a last touch.

*Edit:* About temps, I use ASRock utility F-stream for basic readings, Aida64 and AMD Overdrive for more detailed info. Also note, that ASRock bios puts your system under decent load, so temp there should be considered as temp under load.

Hope it helps you get your Beasts working at 2400!

Just in case for the reference: AMD A10-7850k, ASRock FM2A88X+ Killer, Kingston PredatorX 2666mhz CL11 2x4GB, Kingston V300 SSD 240GB, FSP Raider 650W 80+silver PSU active, CM N400 case with 3x120mm fans and CM Seidon 120V +1pull fan).


----------



## luminousone11

My cs11 2400 radeon memory works great at 2400 with the amp profile and NB at 2000.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> Hello!
> 
> On a side note, my 7850k throttles under iGPU load, just like others have reported (and there is nothing so far that worked for me to avoid it - sometimes it jumps to full speed for few seconds, but thats it). For gaming without dGPU, I would leave CPU side stock since it will throttle anyway, and just bump up RAM, iGPU and litte bit NB frequency to 2000mhz as a last touch.
> 
> Hope it helps you get your Beasts working at 2400!
> 
> Just in case for the reference: AMD A10-7850k, ASRock FM2A88X+ Killer, Kingston PredatorX 2666mhz CL11 2x4GB, Kingston V300 SSD 240GB, FSP Raider 650W 80+silver PSU active, CM N400 case with 3x120mm fans and CM Seidon 120V +1pull fan).


You can't avoid throttling under load. It is either a cpu design or mandated by AMD in their bios that manufacturers build around. I mentioned this issue to the head of Global marketing of AMD and asked for it to bea choice in bios NOT forced. He said he would pass it on to the design team. So if lucky we may have a bios option ina few months permitting us to avoid the throttling , which is simply a power saving mode that AMD intended for mobile devices and should NOT have forced on desktop users.


----------



## joeybuddy96

After my earlier post with two sticks http://www.overclock.net/t/1460028/amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-overclock-guide/440#post_21957956, I decided to do the same thing with four sticks.
Notes that are the same as with the previous testing:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Here are my settings with two sticks of 2400MHz 8GB Team Xtreem on an Extreme6+ with a 7850K, stock heatsink, and a XL R2 case (I left the side cover off for testing since I wanted to be able to see the error codes). Keep in mind that none of this is under load--it's idle in the UEFI, without an OS installed. It more accurately represents the maximum the parts can achieve with stock settings. I haven't gotten to OC'ing my GPU, so that's going to affect thermals too.


ASRock UEFI settings (read from top to bottom matching the format of the UEFI):
CPU OC Mode
4400MHz
Manual
101
Disabled
Disabled
Manual
44 (Returned after leaving the system at the UEFI to find it locked up with Dr. Debug error code 0d, so I lowered it to 44.)
Internal
1.45V
0V
x10
1.2875V (got a screen flicker on transition into the UEFI at 1.275V, and after another 0d, this was one of the settings I brought back up.)
Auto
Auto
XMP 1.3 Profile 1
DDR3-1866 (50'd on previous settings copied from post #447 on 2400 and 2133; 4F'd on 1903 and 1884; the DDR3 can be indirectly set higher than 2400MHz by raising the APU/PCIE Frequency)
1.66V (I don't see any reason to go lower. That's its factory rating--if it dies, it won't be because of the voltage. Update 3: after I came back to a 0d, this was one of the settings I put back to its higher setting for stability.)
5 (ASRock's minimum setting) 8 (C7'd at 7) 9 (C7'd at 8; tried it with 31 tRAS and 43 tRC and got the same result) 8 (4F'd at 7) 15 (ASRock's minimum setting) 2T (34'd at 1T) 25 (4F'd at 24; also stable when lowered along with tRAS to 26 (RAS to CAS Delay) + (RAS Cycle Time) + (2 clock cycles))) 5 (ASRock's minimum setting) 300ns (C7'd at 160ns; The Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings other than the pre-defined increments) 4 (Again, ASrock limitation; it cannot be set lower than 4) 5 (06'd at 4) 4 (the Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings lower than 4) 12 (ASRock's minimum setting)
Temperatures average CPU 63C and M/B 34C.

Here are my system specifications. Note that Sheet 2 is the relevant page.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dEZYb3RORFZxU21jUDh0MWRRSkhhcUE&usp=sharing


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> As the SB and the mosfets get hell-hot - should I put them under water too, or is a 120mm fan blowing at them @ 1000rpm doing fine?


Any thoughts on that? The sb is cold with the 120mm fan, but mosfets still get quite hot.

What I got till now:
iGPU 1028MHz, stock volts from bios - stable on anything I tested
NB 2000MHz, voltage 1.28125V (+1 step)
RAM 2400MHz, 1.670V (memtest86 2-pass stable)
APU PCIE voltage 1.068V (+1)

Ram is rock stable memtest, Linx 10 times, OCCT, IBT, 32M, HCI, aida stress, prime95 on anything 1.655V and more with xmp timings.
BUT crashes 3D (furmark) within minutes on iGPU with anything lower than 1.670V.
Here's 32M without the +1 on nb and pcie volts


Also furmark needs +1 on nb volts and +1 on apu pcie volts. Is this normal? Still under test.
I've read that apu pcie vddp is also for imc - thus the combined stress of iGPU pcie and ram under 3D is too much for the stock voltage? I am on the right path?

Memtest86 stable with settings everything stock only RAM 2133->*2400, 1.670V*; XMP timings, except *tRFC 350->300*; *; NB 1.28125V, PCIe VDDP 1.068V* Will test 3D on these settings today.




So, my observations:
NB 2000MHz gives aida read/write a boost even on 2133 memory; iGPU doesn't care a bit
iGPU benefits a lot from 2133->2400 ram - Vantage P8833/8455/10201 ---> P9127/8805/10252 That's about 3-4 fps (10%) more.
Massive vdroop
Some crazy play with volages to get 3D stable









Question - *LLC does not seem to work at all on any setting?* Constant droop of 0.025V+ (stock 1.325->1.294). Help?


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

I just updated the ASRock F-stream utility to the latest beta version and it seems to finally show correct values this time (there was bug with iGPU frequency being incorrect and also APU PCIE VDDP votlage was indicated as slightly above 1.2V despite my lower setting in bios).

APU PCIE VDDP is really new value for me. Is it possible that my issues with 2400mhz ram (especially when trying to increase iGPU frequency) might be because of that low setting? If it really handles IMC, it could perhaps help to stabilize things. I've read somewhere that on Richlands the high values were past 1.3V for VDDP, so in comparison the auto/default value of 1.052V seems too low. I'm just curious how too high or too low voltage affects the whole thing.

*Any advice about VDDP voltage and what are the safe values for it or how to utilize it for the greater good would be appreciated. Thanks!*

So far non the wiser: 3.7Ghz at 1.325V, NB 2ghz at 1.3V (feels like VRMs are colder compared to 1.2875V), iGPU at 720mhz stock, LLC both on auto, 2400mhz at 1.70V (sticks are cold, but VRMs were not! - had to place stock fan from kaveri under VRM to blow air at it, but at 3600rpm the thing howls quite some). Stable temps during full AIDA stressings were 38°C on cpu and 28°C on MB (though thermometer is far from mosfets I believe so it doesn't matter much). memtest86 2passes also ok


----------



## Abyssmal

Progress:
iGPU 1028MHz, 1.28125V - stable on anything I tested
NB 2000MHz, voltage 1.28125V (+1 step)
RAM 2400MHz, 1.670V (memtest86 2-pass stable) 9-11-11-*29*-1T-*300* (2133 XMP timings, except 31->29 and tRFC 350->300) still lowering timings and testing.
APU PCIE VDDP 1.068V (+1)

Questions:
*LLC does not seem to work at all on any setting?* Constant droop of 0.025V+ (stock 1.325V->1.294V). Help?
When and why should I use *CPU Voltage offset*?
I am custom looped. *VRMs get hot* as summer in hell. Should I go for the 40 euro koolance mosfet waterblock? What about the chokes?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> APU PCIE VDDP is really new value for me. Is it possible that my issues with 2400mhz ram (especially when trying to increase iGPU frequency) might be because of that low setting? If it really handles IMC, it could perhaps help to stabilize things. I've read somewhere that on Richlands the high values were past 1.3V for VDDP, so in comparison the auto/default value of 1.052V seems too low. I'm just curious how too high or too low voltage affects the whole thing.
> 
> *Any advice about VDDP voltage and what are the safe values for it or how to utilize it for the greater good would be appreciated. Thanks!*


For me anything other than 3D was stable for 2400MHz ram. 3D BSOD, etc. even on stock iGPU MHz.
NB 2000MHz +1 step (1.28125V) AND APU VDDP +1 step (1.068V) did the job great. No BSOD, no lockups.

Tried playing with BCLK. NB DOES NOT POST at 2020MHz (101MHz BCLK). It's like some one just crippled it on purpose.








I hate that person in particular.
Lowered the NB multi to 9x. Enters desktop up to 111MHz. SPI 1M instant not exact in round @ 101MHz BCLK, big ass LMAO. NOTHING could get ram stable at 2424MHz - 13-13-13-46-2T-350 1.75V (madness I know) did nothing! Again - someone purposely broke the IMC at 2400MHz.








I hate that person in particular too.

So I got frustrated and bored and started upping the CPU, from AMD Overdrive, lol. 42x was rock stable with above settings and stock volts. Got even more bored and fired Assassin's Creed (first game, lol, nostalgia). Played for 4hrs. No problems there. Will go for max OC/UV.

Final target:
1. Max CPU rock stable. Max validation CPU. What's the safe VID for watercooled Kaveri? I'm thinking 1.500V for max stable OC, and 1.550 for validation? ATM it's doing 10C/20C idle/load delta Tcpu-Tair with 2 120mm 800rpm fans on the 320 radiator. Can go 5-8C lower if I throw in the third fan and max them at 1900rpm.
2. 24/7 - about 4GHz, maximum UV, maxed memory, iGPU, NB. Should be plenty horsepower for Farmville.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> Final target:
> 2. 24/7 - about 4GHz, maximum UV, maxed memory, iGPU, NB. Should be plenty horsepower for Farmville.


That's mine goal as well, having 24/7 rock-solid build that wouldn't smell of frying silicone in the summer.

I have no idea whether oc-ing by changing voltage manualy, or by doing it via offset has any advantages or is different in the end. Maybe someone with more experience could tell...
Meanwhile I set BCLK to auto and the difference is that it can finetune itself much closer to the real 100mhz compared to manual mode, which works in 1mhz increments on my board.

Today I spent by running Prime95 and fun fact was it always failed very early, until I increased APU PCIE VDDP voltage to 1.160V, at which point it stabilized during 2hour blending test. So my conclusion is, that default voltages and min/max values vary way too much even when bios resets to default. I've read quite some about VDDP today and it seems that safe values are up to 1.25V easily (for benching peopel ran it at 1.3V, but I have no idea what were the gains). Now I wonder if I increase it to 1.20 ~ 1.22V, whether I might lower voltage on dram from 1.70V to the rated 1.65V, or even tweak timings, since I use timings of 2666mhz profile except for frequency of course.

About LLC, I tried cpu LLC at 60% and 40% (40% on ASRock corresponds to high60% settings on Asus I think) as 100% is regular/default and 0% is uber-extreme on ASRock apparently. Vdroop is there just like yours: at 3.7ghz 1.325V VID and 40%LLC it reads 1.296V to 1.304V under full load. Turbocore is off, amp off, spectrum spread off, c6 auto (enabled I believe), CnQ dissabled, smv & iommu dissabled (though it had no effect I think), thermal throttle at auto. Also cpu is set to internal offset voltage control to complement c6, instead of fixed power mode. NB was at that time at 1.3V, NB-LLC auto, 1800mhz, 1.16V VDDP at 720mhz stable in 3D as well.

Try running Prime95 to see how it behaves, if not good, try increasing slowly VDDP. Though most important could have been that additional fan blowing on VRMs, since now after hour stresstest I can touch it and its warm, but not piping hot as it was before. Will have to find some permanent cooling option for vrm most likely as well (fan from kaveris stock heatsink is blowing at it from the bottom now, it works but howls). May the progress be good









*EDIT:* Tried to lower DRAM to 1.68V along 1.16V VDDP and failed during first minute of Prime95 twice. Lowered it to 1.65V and upped VDDP to 1.206V, it runs solid 1hour prime and now 1hour full aida system stability test with gpu stressing too. In that time, it surged only twice above throttle-mode of 3ghz/1.063V, if it is relevant at all. I will test a bit more and tomorrow will focus on NB/iGPU.

*Conclusion:* APU PCIE VDDP has effect on RAM stability, since at "stock" value of 1.058V I couldn't even boot up 2400mhz xmp profile at rated 1.65V.


----------



## wrtIAp

Does anyone know what the APU PCIE VDDP is for? I've never touched it at all.
My system is actually acting VERY strange, RAM 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31, CPU 4Ghz with 1.30625V, GPU 900Mhz with NB 1.30625V, NB 2000Mhz.
If the computer starts off solid, it stays rock solid forever basically (sometimes a game crashes and I have to restart it, unsure if thermal issue).
However, if I restart my computer, 90% of the time it's very unstable. Programs start crashing (DWM, windows gadgets) and trying to start games causes crashes or bluescreen. Then I just have to restart repeatedly, usually about ~10 times before it gets stable again.
Changing things in the BIOS doesn't seem to do much help, and I can just restarted repeatedly without even entering BIOS until it becomes stable again.
Don't know if anyone knows what the problem here is. And just reading through the previous posts, some say the CPU VID voltage is 1.325V, which may be why I have the problem? But then again, my computer is rock solid once in while after reboots at 1.3062V.


----------



## DannyDK

I got my cpu up to 4.5ghz stable, but i have to set my voltage in bios to 1.55. I get a reading from cpuz on 1.504v, is it normal that setting it in bios and expect voltage to be 0.046v lower?


----------



## yraith

I have noticed a variable voltage, too. I think it is the nature of the beast. I read somewhere that the new HSA allows for dips in voltage, then when necessary will bump the voltage to max.


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Does anyone know what the APU PCIE VDDP is for? I've never touched it at all.


Your system is not stable.Test ibt, linx, prime95, memtest, heaven, valley.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> *Conclusion:* APU PCIE VDDP has effect on RAM stability, since at "stock" value of 1.058V I couldn't even boot up 2400mhz xmp profile at rated 1.65V.


Wow that's quite a bump in voltages. Too much?

I tried upping the bclk again to no avail. So timings it is.
9-10-10-29-1T-160 tRFC rock stable memtest with all other settings from last post. But 3D needed 1.680V on ram to stop crashing/bsod/lockup/restart. Damn Heaven!
Ram is cold as a b*tch, so no probkem there.

What is the safe ram voltage for 24/7?
*Need help getting bclk 103-105.*

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> Wow that's quite a bump in voltages. Too much?
> 
> What is the safe ram voltage for 24/7?
> 
> *Need help getting bclk 103-105.*


Yes it might seem as huge bump of 0.15V on VDDA, but I suspect that default 1.052V is a mistake in the first place. When I used latest F-stream version (non-beta), VDDA kept reading 1.2V regardless of what I put in bios. After installing beta version of F-stream, I got same reading as set in bios, 1.052V. Seeing as default values vary between MB brands as much as different bios versions, I tried to go that way and increase it in 0.05V steps, where I settled on 1.20V stable with fully working xmp and rated dram voltage (which was my goal).
So it is my speculation that 1.20V is safe value and possibly could even corresponds to APU 1.2V PCIE voltage setting on ASUS (again a possibility of different brands naming same thing differently). Also in another forum, someone is running kaveri as high as 1.3V VDDA, though I doubt its 24/7 value. APU PCIE VDDA voltage should feed the pcie controller in the apu itself - so it should be considered an internal circuit of apu. How exactly if affects dram and what else that internal circuit controls, I don't know but it obviously helped me stabilize xmp 2400 profile at rated 1.65V without getting errors in Prime.

About DRAM voltage, rule of thumb seems to be rated voltage +0.1V tops. Though I personaly try to be always a little bit more on the safe side, so for 24/7 I wouldn't go past 1.7V (since I was at 1.7V already with not completely stable in Prime, I went with VDDA bump instead) . Important to note is that each chip brand behaves and likes different settings e.g. Hynix, Samsung, Psc... There are claims of running Hynix 24/7 at 1.85V on air, but that is just extreme case and serious overkill imo.

I would go for tighter timings myself too, since I'm little bit dissapointed with 24x bclk being the ceiling, despite in description of ASRock it says 2600+ for my board. I so wanted to unleash those rated 2666mhz sticks! But I won't touch BCLK now because it hits the wall early with AHCI setups anyway (chances are you can't go past 103+ bclk on ahci, but you might try and test ide setup which should pass 103-105 wall easily. I would test it on stock cpu/gpu clocks first and loose dram timings though - at least I bump frequency first and then tighten timings if desired), and I don't see the point in using IDE with SSDs. Anyway ASRock, where is my 26x multi?!







How about bios update after 2.5 months?!


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> Your system is not stable.Test ibt, linx, prime95, memtest, heaven, valley.


Thanks for your reply! I ran Valley and prime95 for a while and everything seems to be running perfectly, though I don't know what tests I can get to load both CPU+GPU at the same time.
And when running on 4GHz full CPU load, my CPU voltage was only 1.256V, it does seem to be a bit lower than others', but it was perfectly stable throughout. Does anyone else get a similar voltage or is it just me?


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Thanks for your reply! I ran Valley and prime95 for a while and everything seems to be running perfectly, though I don't know what tests I can get to load both CPU+GPU at the same time.
> And when running on 4GHz full CPU load, my CPU voltage was only 1.256V, it does seem to be a bit lower than others', but it was perfectly stable throughout. Does anyone else get a similar voltage or is it just me?


IMO you don't need to stress CPU+GPU at the same time. For me memtest86, hci memtest, ibt, linx, prime95, superpi 32m are ALL stable OC on 2400MHz 9-10-10-29-1T-160, 1.650V ram.

BUT 3D, eg, furmark, 3dmark vantage, heaven, valley *crash almost instant*. So upped the ram volts to 1.680V and it's 3D stable.

I cannot get even 101 BCLK on any voltage on APU, NB or RAM! Flood of errors in memtest86.


----------



## FunkZ

Stock VID is 1.325v @ 3.7Ghz with Turbo boosting above that even. CPU-Z indicated as high as 1.38v under load. I've been running a manual 4.0Ghz, no Turbo, on only 1.25v without problems. Due to the 3Ghz throttling under iGPU load the CPU overclock isn't worth the extra heat/juice IMO. I get better benchmark scores using 4.0Ghz/1.25v than I do with stock Auto/Turbo mode on, which definitely seems to point to it being a TDP throttle.

Abyssmal, setting Bclk to even 101 on mine also results in a no-post. I tried changing to IDE but that didn't help. Voltage adjustments don't seem to help. Hoping an eventual BIOS update will address, am using latest beta version.

Danny a drop from 1.55 to 1.50 seems a lot of Vdroop. Look for a LLC setting in your BIOS and increase. That should get your load volts closer to your specified setting.


----------



## DannyDK

Is it because of my overclock that my first core sometimes run at 100% and the rest is idleling? (not running anything)


----------



## wrtIAp

Can somebody tell me what settings or parameter changes after a reboot? I don't understand why my fully stable system will keep crashing after a reboot, and it takes 10s of reboots repeatedly to get it to boot stable again. So every time I have to leave my computer on 24/7 and sometimes it's a little inconvenient.
Thanks


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Can somebody tell me what settings or parameter changes after a reboot? I don't understand why my fully stable system will keep crashing after a reboot, and it takes 10s of reboots repeatedly to get it to boot stable again. So every time I have to leave my computer on 24/7 and sometimes it's a little inconvenient.
> Thanks


That's really strange. After all those reboots what are your bios settings? Because if failed to boot some times in a row resets to default bios and boots. At least with Asrock Extreme4+. Try enetering bios when post is successful to check settings.

I have established that my iGPU is stable at 1110MHz (at least) set through AMD Overdrive. But cannot load windows if set from bios. Is there a workaroud? Seems driver issue. Using latest beta.

PS: Today I'll be playing with lower timings on that (Micron D9?) Corsair ram. What can I aim at? 9-9-9-27-1T-160? Lol, dreamy, huh!

Wish me luck.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Can somebody tell me what settings or parameter changes after a reboot? I don't understand why my fully stable system will keep crashing after a reboot, and it takes 10s of reboots repeatedly to get it to boot stable again. So every time I have to leave my computer on 24/7 and sometimes it's a little inconvenient.
> Thanks


Temperature changes during reboot for example. Have you checked how hot are your VRMs? Temp sensors themselves aren't always accurate, so ground yourself and touch that heatsink or use more accurate measuring device. Since your issue seems to be affected by reboot, its either temp or borderline voltage setting. If the latter, I would say too low APU PCIE VDDA, my all-time favourite scamp everyone ignores!









To stress both cpu and gpu at the same time, you can use aida64 for example, or perhaps there are freewares out there doing the same thing. I would like to point out that stressing them both at the same time is relevant, if you plan to play games on iGPU. If it behaves well during combined stresstest, then it will be rock-solid with games too.

Vdroop of 0.05V seems to be common on 7850k with regular/dissabled LLC. Flat voltage vcore = cpuvid could be achieved by highest possible LLC I think, though I haven't tried it, as it would most likely put more stress/heat on VRM and that would be of more concern to me as of now. At 3.7Ghz and 1.300V CPUVID I get 1.272V to 1.280V actual vcore readings with 40% LLC during cpu-only load (haven't tried 20% very high and 0% extreme LLCs yet).


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> That's really strange. After all those reboots what are your bios settings? Because if failed to boot some times in a row resets to default bios and boots. At least with Asrock Extreme4+. Try enetering bios when post is successful to check settings.
> 
> I have established that my iGPU is stable at 1110MHz (at least) set through AMD Overdrive. But cannot load windows if set from bios. Is there a workaroud? Seems driver issue. Using latest beta.
> 
> PS: Today I'll be playing with lower timings on that (Micron D9?) Corsair ram. What can I aim at? 9-9-9-27-1T-160? Lol, dreamy, huh!
> 
> Wish me luck.


Thanks for the reply, I can boot into windows basically everytime, but programs will start crashing and when running tests the program crashes or the whole computer crashes, and bios settings are the same every time. By the way, which version is the latest beta? There seems to be a couple versions that I can find on amd's site depending on where I search them from. I'm using the one that was released on Jan 14.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> Temperature changes during reboot for example. Have you checked how hot are your VRMs? Temp sensors themselves aren't always accurate, so ground yourself and touch that heatsink or use more accurate measuring device. Since your issue seems to be affected by reboot, its either temp or borderline voltage setting. If the latter, I would say too low APU PCIE VDDA, my all-time favourite scamp everyone ignores!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To stress both cpu and gpu at the same time, you can use aida64 for example, or perhaps there are freewares out there doing the same thing. I would like to point out that stressing them both at the same time is relevant, if you plan to play games on iGPU. If it behaves well during combined stresstest, then it will be rock-solid with games too.
> 
> Vdroop of 0.05V seems to be common on 7850k with regular/dissabled LLC. Flat voltage vcore = cpuvid could be achieved by highest possible LLC I think, though I haven't tried it, as it would most likely put more stress/heat on VRM and that would be of more concern to me as of now. At 3.7Ghz and 1.300V CPUVID I get 1.272V to 1.280V actual vcore readings with 40% LLC during cpu-only load (haven't tried 20% very high and 0% extreme LLCs yet).


So what does the APU PCIE VDDP do actually? I've never changed it before. If it's related to the iGPU, does that mean I can lower the NB Voltage after upping the VDDP? My VRM's are actually quite cool, now that I've ripped off some of the stock cooler blades for the VRMs + the stock fan







, and they've run crazy hot before without causing the crashes I'm facing after reboots.
Btw, I am getting 1.256/1.272V for CPU when it's set to 1.30625V BIOS, so you're quite right about the 0.05V Vdroop.

Thanks everyone for the help so far, I didn't want to put more burden on this thread with my problems at first, but not being able to turn my computer on and be stable in 1 go is really starting to drive me crazy


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> So what does the APU PCIE VDDP do actually? I've never changed it before. If it's related to the iGPU, does that mean I can lower the NB Voltage after upping the VDDP? My VRM's are actually quite cool, now that I've ripped off some of the stock cooler blades for the VRMs + the stock fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and they've run crazy hot before without causing the crashes I'm facing after reboots.
> Btw, I am getting 1.256/1.272V for CPU when it's set to 1.30625V BIOS, so you're quite right about the 0.05V Vdroop.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help so far, I didn't want to put more burden on this thread with my problems at first, but not being able to turn my computer on and be stable in 1 go is really starting to drive me crazy


No worries mate, it's in the name of progress!







About VRMs I did the same thing, put stock fan from 7850k heatsink under it to help with cooling, since rear-mounted radiator with push-pull fans obscure VRMs heatsink. That fan bitten me a moment ago again...nasty bugger!

APU PCIE VDDA (that's the name on ASRock at least) represents voltage that feeds the integrated pcie controller on apu. Now you might think it is of no use when you are not using dGPU or other cards on pcie lanes...but as far as I know, iGPU sits on some kind of internal pcie lane itself. I don't work for amd, so I might be as well wrong, but all the info I gathered points that way - if there is someone more educated in the matter, I would welcome additional info myself.. When there is some kind of ram or igpu instability (and lets face it, most instabilities on igpu here are caused by dram anyway, because even at idle 350mhz igpu clock it shares full dram clock speed/timings at all times), bumping apu pcie vdda should help. It allowed me to go back to stock 1.65V on dram. Whether it affects NB and IMC in some way, I don't know. What you could try is loading stock bios profile again, or lets say something conservative like 4ghz cpu, stock igpu, ram clock/timing you want to be using and then rising VDDA up slowly, by 0.025V increments or faster in 0.05V bumps. I'm still at 1.206V myself.

About drivers on fresh install I went to amd.com > drivers+support> drivers+download centre> filled in 7850k and chose beta (the lower driver - should be 14th jan iirc) and istalled everything except for Catalyst. After reboot, amd.com again > drivers+support > latest amd apu drivers for win7 64bit 14.3 beta, installed full package with Catalyst too now, except for that gaming software it comes with. If you are going to reinstall catalyst, its always good to first use clean uninstall utility from amd...I guess they know better why they are suggesting it that way.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> I have established that my iGPU is stable at 1110MHz (at least) set through AMD Overdrive. But cannot load windows if set from bios. Is there a workaroud? Seems driver issue. Using latest beta.


What is the NBVID voltage you use? At 1100+ mhz it has to be past 1.4V! I would be very careful with voltages around 1.4V, as that was highest safe value on 32nm A10s.

Tested 960mhz at iGPU, it bumped NBVID itself to 1.306V regardless of voltage I set in bios, while LLC had no visible effect at all (remember that we can't see actual VNB readings, so it most likely has effect on actual voltage). At 1028mhz it bumped NBVID further to 1.363V, all while F-stream kept reading original value I put in bios (1.2875V at that time). Only Aida64 registered that automatic bump in NBVID...that's why I'm curious what voltages you are getting.


----------



## amalcho

Hey guys,

I've been following this thread for some time, tried lots of things, but can't get a stable setup with 2400mHz RAM. I have a Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI running the f4b BIOS. Does anyone actually have a stable setup (in gaming appications) with this motherboard, or another Gigabyte model? If so, can you please post some info on your BIOS settings?

Just for added info, I'm able to run 2133 without a hitch, and even 2400 boots into Windows and operates fine in non-3d appications, however, games typically run for ~45s until they crash. I'm using Mushkin Blackline 2400 RAM rated CAS 11.

Any help is appreciated. I'm sorry if I've missed a post already dealing with this.


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> What is the NBVID voltage you use? At 1100+ mhz it has to be past 1.4V! I would be very careful with voltages around 1.4V, as that was highest safe value on 32nm A10s.


Uhm nothing of the kind - NBVID is a step up (needed for 2400MHz ram). It did 1060MHz iGPU on stock volts. Dunno, maybe lesser *7700K* iGPU runs on lower volts at those MHz.

My Corsairs do not want lower timings than 9-10-10-29-1T-tRFC160 @ 2400MHz. Tryed up to 1.70V - no go. Same errors in memtest86. Haven't played with the secondary though.

(Greedy voice) Need.bandwidth.moar.









I got bored on ram tweaking and went for CPU undervolt @ 4.3GHz. Did 10-pass Linx @ 1.28125V+0.012V+1/2CPU LLC - actual readings 1.262-1.266V on both idle/load. That's 0.030V lower than stock. Will try undervolting @ stock frequency.

(Greedy voice2) Need.volts.less.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Oh my bad Abyssmal, I thought you were using 7850k. From what I gather, 7700k behaves mucho-stablo Also you got really tight timings there, I can't go to 160 row freq cycle, otherwise its cmos reset button for me. 10 - 12 - 12 - 30 - 1T worked but with errors in prime after 15mins at 1.65V, so I'm back at stock xmp2 2400 11-13-13-30-1T again.

Have you tried to run some benches how your beastie performs (especially memory performance)? It would be interesting whether its viable to push those timings, or focus on something else instead to gain performance or trim thermals a bit. Anyway good job!

On iGPU I'm at 960mhz, 2000NB, 1.3125V 60% LLC (medium), 1.222V APU PCIE VDDA (1.206V started to crash under full system stresstest past 30min). However I consider my chip has sweetspot at 900mhz iGPU, 2400 ram, 2000 nb and possibly 3.7~4Ghz cpu, in terms of performance/thermal/power ratio for 24/7 use (C6+internal cpu offset definitely helps with power when idling the cores).


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> Oh my bad Abyssmal, I thought you were using 7850k. From what I gather, 7700k behaves mucho-stablo Also you got really tight timings there, I can't go to 160 row freq cycle, otherwise its cmos reset button for me. 10 - 12 - 12 - 30 - 1T worked but with errors in prime after 15mins at 1.65V, so I'm back at stock xmp2 2400 11-13-13-30-1T again.
> 
> Have you tried to run some benches how your beastie performs (especially memory performance)? It would be interesting whether its viable to push those timings, or focus on something else instead to gain performance or trim thermals a bit. Anyway good job!
> 
> On iGPU I'm at 960mhz, 2000NB, 1.3125V 60% LLC (medium), 1.222V APU PCIE VDDA (1.206V started to crash under full system stresstest past 30min). However I consider my chip has sweetspot at 900mhz iGPU, 2400 ram, 2000 nb and possibly 3.7~4Ghz cpu, in terms of performance/thermal/power ratio for 24/7 use (C6+internal cpu offset definitely helps with power when idling the cores).


Thanks! So what is offset? When does it kick in? Always? Loaded only? Wow, I'm quite rusty on those technologies.

As I obviously have some very playful memory/iGPU - I am thinking of making a nice frquency-timings benchmarks 1600-2400MHz at stock CPU/NB/iGPU and 4.3/2000/1000MHz which is typical OC on those chips. Just to determine is ram capped bythe 1800 NB, and if iGPU is capped from low MHz memory/timings.

Preliminary - what I have till now:
CPU 3.4GHz, RAM 2133MHz 9-11-11-31-1T-350 (XMP), *NB 1800MHz*, iGPU 1028MHz from BIOS, 14.3_Beta_V1.0 driver:
Vantage P8831/8471/10123

Same settings, but *NB 2000MHz*:
Vantage P8833/8455/10201
AIDA64 read/write/latency 22134 / 11113 / 77.4
SuperPI 8M 4m 28.682s

CPU 3.4GHz, *RAM 2400MHz* 9-11-11-31-1T-350 (XMP), NB 2000MHz, iGPU 1028MHz from BIOS, 14.3_Beta_V1.0 driver:
Vantage P9127/8805/10252

Lowering tRAS 31->29:
SuperPI 1M 24.331s
Vantage P9217/8922/10231

Lowering tRFC 350->300:
AIDA64 23227 / 11319 / 73.4
1M 24.075
8M 4m 24.635s
Vantage P9263/8958/10316


----------



## ASCI Blue

I've got a bit of a headache and trying to figure out where it is. As this thread is massive and seems people know what they're doing I'll ask here, I recently rebuilt a desktop with:

AMD A10-7850
ASRock FM2+a88x +Killer (Fatal1ty edition cause black and red)
G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-17000CL11D 8 gig (same package, not on ASRock's memory QVL)
BFG 550 watt power supply
I'm leaving the rest out because as of now it's not relevant. What happens, happens regardless of the stuff plugged in.

Any time I change ANY speeds except the onboard GPU the system powers off (hard reboot) briefly and back on again. It then does one of two things: Black screen and non-functional or it'll try to boot to Windows just to tell me everything is corrupt and I can go jump off a cliff. Resetting the CMOS fixes this problem and resets tentatively to 1333 mhz RAM, hard reboot, restarts at 1600 mhz ram and I can boot just fine. A couple days ago I had manually set my RAM to 1866, it was fine for 8 or so hours with no load but when I started a game of Titanfall after around 3 - 5 mins the system hard locked on me, forcing a power supply switch off, and resetting everything again.

I've tried XMP with zero success. I've tried manual timing with slight success until it bore a load. Since it's been a while since I've had a desktop never mind overclocked said desktop I have to ask: is being set to 100 mhz for a CPU/FSB speed normal? If so what the crap, and are things so tightly specced today that raising FSB speed by 33 mhz will create headaches without a voltage increase? The last time I really toyed with ocing anything was during the Athlon XP days and that was mild and very painless. Prior to that I had a decent increase from an Athlon 700 once I upped the FSB to 133 with 133 ram and did some tooling around with multiplier settings.

Any help or direction to use my RAM at it's specced speeds would be great and I'll read through the rest of this thread as well.


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ASCI Blue*
> 
> Windows just to tell me everything is corrupt and I can go jump off a cliff.


This made my day! Good morning, fellas.

Hope I understand correctly.
If' I'm not still asleep - you say you have your FSB at 133MHz?! That is way past anything reasonable for today's technology! I cannot post at 105MHz. Lower to 100MHz or auto and just play with multy's and timings.


----------



## ASCI Blue

I couldn't get it to do anything at 133, I was referencing when 700 Mhz was fast that I had to run the fsb at 133 to use my 133 mhz RAM.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectrum Legacy*
> 
> Whether it affects NB and IMC in some way, I don't know. What you could try is loading stock bios profile again, or lets say something conservative like 4ghz cpu, stock igpu, ram clock/timing you want to be using and then rising VDDA up slowly, by 0.025V increments or faster in 0.05V bumps. I'm still at 1.206V myself.


About the VDDA, that MIGHT just be the problem (not too sure yet). Mine was set to "auto" and was showing up as 1.052V in BIOS. Don't know if it was supposed to choose such a low value


----------



## Medusa666

Sounds like your motherboard is off, should not do that.

Update to the latest BIOS, see if it helps.


----------



## ASCI Blue

I have the latest bios on Asrock's site which is 1.7, I've seen several people with 1.8 and I'm curious as to where they got it. The only thing 1.7 has helped is allotting more ram to the GPU.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ASCI Blue*
> 
> I have the latest bios on Asrock's site which is 1.7, I've seen several people with 1.8 and I'm curious as to where they got it. The only thing 1.7 has helped is allotting more ram to the GPU.


Hello there!

I have the same motherboard and 7850k as you do. I have used the 1.70bios, since that is the current live version, however 1.80 was out for quite some time, but ASRock pulled it out for unknown reason. You can still get it at softpedia for example and then update the bios via USB stick (with either of FAT file formats). 1.80 addressed Gpu frequencies, but I haven't noticed anything different (I updated in the hope that it will help stabilize things for me). It seems that bios updates aren't ASRock's forte and I'm kind of holding out any further OCing until they release new bios, just in case (my system started to act weird at 960mhz iGPU).

*EDIT:* I'm rolling back to 1.70 bios, as that 1.80 caused enough headaches over the last 2days and no wonder ASRock pulled it out.

As Abyssmal said, leave FSB preferably on auto, or 100mhz. It also affects your sata, usb and other controllers - sata in ahci mode is very sensitive regarding FSB frequency past stock values. I had no troubles with ram whatsoever up to 2133mhz, just disabled xmp (set to auto), timings set to auto (power saving dissabled of course) and frequency set to 2133mhz and it worked fine at 1.65V (thats rated voltage on my ram, but for 2400 and 2666 freqs). However aiming at 2400mhz I've hit the wall until I started to increase in few steps that dreaded APU PCIE VDDA voltage. Try to do the same, but since you have different ram kit, I don't know what exactly will work for you and more importantly at which point it will. Maybe you have thermal issue on VRM (the heatsink with "A88x+ Killer" logo), since I had it as well and it caused crashes within 30minutes - now I use slightly higher voltage, but put LLC for both cpu and nb/gfx on auto (regular mode), until I get stable again . Try going slowly with stock cpu/igpu frequencies and up the ram slowly in auto mode (it should use bit loose timings that way). Hope it will work for you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> Thanks! So what is offset? When does it kick in? Always? Loaded only? Wow, I'm quite rusty on those technologies.


Rusty? My last AMD OC-ing session was in between1996 (K5 line of chips) and ~2002-ish with early Durons.








Anyway, I was reffering to the feature I use in my bios which lets you choose CPU internal offset (something like automatic offset, which allows to dip down the voltages when cpu is idle, which works quite well with enabled C6) as opposed to the PWM Fix mode (which tries to push same exact voltage 24/7 regardless of load).
Standard voltage offset I consider as fine-tunning tool, but you can as much use only CPU VID to alter voltages as much as using only offset and leave CPU VID stock. I gather there is difference between the two in how some of the features will perform under those circumstances, e.g. CnQ, Turbocore and power managements. Also since we can't see actual NB voltage, I would advise caution with that one. I personally have both offesets at +0V and again, if its bad thing, I would welcome advice myself as of why it is so.


----------



## DannyDK

I have no problems using my HyperX ram a stock speed 2400mhz @ 1.65volt. Have same mobo and apu as you two.


----------



## ASCI Blue

I will leave my fsb on 100, what do I want the northbridge set to since I frequently see a nb higher than my 1800 when I see faster ram speeds? By power saving you do mean the power down whatchercallit under the ram timing not some other random power save feature correct?
I also notice that occasionally the hs with the Fatal1ty logo runs a tad warm compared to the rest of the system. I've had issues due to heat in the past (700 mhz days).

My ram is rated for 2133 at 1.6 volts, I've seen the manufacturer recommend bumping up to 1.65 for 2133 as well. I haven't done anything voltage wise for anything aside the ram yet but if tolerances are tighter now than in the past this makes sense to why my rig might be cranky.

LLCs are currently on auto as I have no idea what the crap they do.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ASCI Blue*
> 
> I will leave my fsb on 100, what do I want the northbridge set to since I frequently see a nb higher than my 1800 when I see faster ram speeds? By power saving you do mean the power down whatchercallit under the ram timing not some other random power save feature correct?
> I also notice that occasionally the hs with the Fatal1ty logo runs a tad warm compared to the rest of the system. I've had issues due to heat in the past (700 mhz days).
> 
> My ram is rated for 2133 at 1.6 volts, I've seen the manufacturer recommend bumping up to 1.65 for 2133 as well. I haven't done anything voltage wise for anything aside the ram yet but if tolerances are tighter now than in the past this makes sense to why my rig might be cranky.
> 
> LLCs are currently on auto as I have no idea what the crap they do.


Just edited my previous post, flashed bios back to v1.70 as it was stable back then and 1.80 missbehaved even on settings that were rocksolid on 1.70.

NB freq should either stay at 1800mhz or bump it a bit if you can afford it as the last step. 2000mhz is solid, but the performance increase between the two is very small, something like up to 5% on memory read/write performance. In 3Dmark, it should reflect as +0.5fps during physics benching. However it puts more stress on APU as a whole, so better leave it as the last thing to increase (also on ASRock, we can currently increase it in 200mhz steps, which isn't very modest stepping). If you are worried that your RAM will be bottlenecked by NB freq, rest assured that 2400mhz ram requires at least 1500mhz NB, so at 1800mhz NB you are more than safe.

LLCs are moving the whole voltage plane higher, to reduce the Vdroop under load (voltage drop from e.g. CPU VID to actual CPU voltage you can read). Vdroop seems to be 0.050V on 7850k a common thing, so I wouldn't be too overzealous to negate it by very high LLC, as it puts more stress/heat on your VRMs. Highest LLC I tried on ASRock was 40% on CPU and it reduced Vdroop by half (to something around 0.025V). But if you do not overclock yet, imo leave it at auto to save yourself some stress. The Fatal1ty logo heatsink is for Controller hub or south bridge. As long as you have SB voltage at auto or 1.1V it shouldn't get way too hot, just warm. Since I have no dGPU, I use the side exhaust in my case as intake with one 120mm fan and it blows air right at that part of motherboard (plus it feeds more air for VRM fan as well).


----------



## Abyssmal

Guys which ram slots are you using? I had a hell of a time with 2133 on A1-B1.

On Extreme4+ and 6+ manuals it says

Code:



Code:


If you adopt DDR3 2600/2400/2133/1866/1600 memory modules on this 
motherboard, it is recommended to install them on DDR3_A2 and DDR3_
B2 slots.

Should be the same with Fatal1ty.

EDIT: Yes - on all three boards it's A2-B2.


----------



## Spectrum Legacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abyssmal*
> 
> Guys which ram slots are you using? I had a hell of a time with 2133 on A1-B1.
> 
> On Extreme4+ and 6+ manuals it says
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> If you adopt DDR3 2600/2400/2133/1866/1600 memory modules on this
> motherboard, it is recommended to install them on DDR3_A2 and DDR3_
> B2 slots.
> 
> Should be the same with Fatal1ty.
> 
> EDIT: Yes - on all three boards it's A2-B2.


Haven't tried A1-B1 myself as I took my time reading manual first - there are sometimes funny things to find







Its same on most boards, priority#2 dual-channel setup works better on higher frequencies.


----------



## CosminZ

AMD Overdrive - clock/voltage - turbo core control (disable turbo core control)

this is the only solution to the throteling down of the cpu to 3Ghz that i have read over the weekend and it is working. Tryed with 3.7Ghz at 1.25v and maximum stable at 3.9Ghz.
In bios the only thing modified was the ram voltage to 1.67v to be stable at 2400Mhz under 3d load and increased NB clock to 2000Mhz.
The mainbord is an entry level from gigabyte, cpu A10 7850K watercooled, memory kingston at 2400Mhz.
The downside is that after restart you have to repeat procedure.


----------



## Abyssmal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CosminZ*
> 
> AMD Overdrive - clock/voltage - turbo core control (disable turbo core control)
> 
> this is the only solution to the throteling down of the cpu to 3Ghz that i have read over the weekend and it is working.
> ..................
> The downside is that after restart you have to repeat procedure.


That's nice to know, BUT turbo core is inactive on my Extreme4+ & 7700K. Using latest AOD.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> I need help, I've never OC an apu before. Also I do not understand where to find the voltage for cpu and gpu, I assume the cpu voltage is the cpu vcore?
> 
> - GB GA-G1.Sniper A88X FM2+ (F7 Bios)
> 
> - Team Xtreme 8GB 2400MHZ RAM (2x 4GB)
> 
> - H55 Cooler
> 
> I've read reviews where ppl are getting 4.7ghz oc on the cpu and over 1ghz gpu clock, but they never post the voltage they are using for both, or the ram settings, they are always missing information somewhere, and noobs like me are left lost and confused. My mb only increases voltage by .06 i think....but it never tells you what the voltage is set at to begin with...
> 
> With stock settings, but ram running xmp 2400mhz often I get an error with windows 8.1 "attempted execute of no execute memory"
> 
> Thanx for the help!


Anybody claiming 4.7 GHZ on Kaveri is full of it. Not unless they are using LN2. 4.5 to 4.6 is possible with good water cooling. I am stating running stable on all cores. One core overclocking is bogus in my eyes. It matters not any way, as Kaveri defaults to 3GHZ under full load. That may change later with a bios update.Vcore is the the correct setting for cpu voltage. Your bios should give a read out on voltage settings. I think you are looking in the wrong place. You also must use advanced settings NOT EZ mode to see these values.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> *Anybody claiming 4.7 GHZ on Kaveri is full of it.* Not unless they are using LN2. 4.5 to 4.6 is possible with good water cooling. I am stating running stable on all cores. One core overclocking is bogus in my eyes. It matters not any way, as Kaveri defaults to 3GHZ under full load. That may change later with a bios update.Vcore is the the correct setting for cpu voltage. Your bios should give a read out on voltage settings. I think you are looking in the wrong place. You also must use advanced settings NOT EZ mode to see these values.


wow. that's bold.
http://valid.canardpc.com/xzmuk6
quick 3 min overclock just to install windows. So 4.7 isn't that far off and could easily be done.
but this thing is my daily now and I'm running bone stock except for memory.
On Hwbot there are 3 other submissions higher than mine but they are all on LN2, mine was done with a simple water cooling setup.
Funny thing is though, I used an Intel water block on this setup just so I could get the OS ready, so the block was only held down by 2 spots. I didn't even own an AMD water block until after the setup was completed and I put together the daily rig.

With a little tweaking 4.7 should be a cake walk. Maybe this weekend I'll do a little more detailed OC for 5GHz or so on this daily setup just to say I did it.

Just as a reference to what the Intel block looks like mounted here is a picture


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







And as a reference this same board when using LN2










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> wow. that's bold.
> http://valid.canardpc.com/xzmuk6
> quick 3 min overclock just to install windows. So 4.7 isn't that far off and could easily be done.
> but this thing is my daily now and I'm running bone stock except for memory.
> On Hwbot there are 3 other submissions higher than mine but they are all on LN2, mine was done with a simple water cooling setup.
> Funny thing is though, I used an Intel water block on this setup just so I could get the OS ready, so the block was only held down by 2 spots. I didn't even own an AMD water block until after the setup was completed and I put together the daily rig.
> 
> With a little tweaking 4.7 should be a cake walk. Maybe this weekend I'll do a little more detailed OC for 5GHz or so on this daily setup just to say I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


It may be bold but it is true. Canardpc means absolutely nothing. It does not tell you if you are utilizing all 4 cores, it doesn't tell you that you can maintain the speed under full load with stability. I stand by what I say until someone provides full documentation proving stability with prime 95 mixed blend and either OCCT with AVX or IBT /AVX. 4.7 is no cake walk. Keep hallucinating. By the way the Intel-made water cooler is pathetic making your claim all the more unlikely.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> It may be bold but it is true. Canardpc means absolutely nothing. It does not tell you if you are utilizing all 4 cores, it doesn't tell you that you can maintain the speed under full load with stability. I stand by what I say until someone provides full documentation proving stability with prime 95 mixed blend and either OCCT with AVX or IBT /AVX. 4.7 is no cake walk. Keep hallucinating. By the way the Intel-made water cooler is pathetic making your claim all the more unlikely.


----------



## ASCI Blue

Upped NB to 2000, manually edited timings for RAM, raised some voltages, disabled a few things, and ran memtest for 13 hours at 1866, 0 errors. I think it's stable.

I did try for 2133, at 2000 nb it booted but flaked and Winders shut itself down, at 2200 system became unusable. May have to adjust more timings and or voltages.


----------



## djohny24

Is there any chance to get 2666Mhz DDR3 on this patform?. I cant pass 2400 (2540Mhz with 105 bclk)

Mobo: Asus A88xm-plus
Memory: 2x4Gb 2666Mhz 11-13-13-35 Geil Evo Potenza.

With 2400Mhz works right but with 2666 never boot


----------



## drmrlordx

I have observed many complaints here that BCLK won't go past 103-105 mhz in AHCI mode. How many have had luck with higher BCLK speeds in IDE mode? Can anyone among those who have had such good fortune tell me their top BCLK speed, and which board they were using? Thanks!


----------



## djohny24

Yup, i tried with IDE and AHCI with the same results. 105 works but 106 crash.


----------



## drmrlordx

Hmm. Does the UEFI menu have an option to disable the SATA controller entirely? I realize that would be awfully . . . inconvinient, I'm just curious about the possibility that it isn't only the SATA controller causing problems.


----------



## cpmee

Quote:


> s there any chance to get 2666Mhz DDR3 on this patform?. I cant pass 2400 (2540Mhz with 105 bclk)
> 
> Mobo: Asus A88xm-plus
> Memory: 2x4Gb 2666Mhz 11-13-13-35 Geil Evo Potenza.
> 
> With 2400Mhz works right but with 2666 never boot


Well, if you cant get higher mhz, then try tighter timings at 2400mhz, like 10-12-12-34. The net result on performance may be the same or even better.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Is there any chance to get 2666Mhz DDR3 on this patform?. I cant pass 2400 (2540Mhz with 105 bclk)
> 
> Mobo: Asus A88xm-plus
> Memory: 2x4Gb 2666Mhz 11-13-13-35 Geil Evo Potenza.
> 
> With 2400Mhz works right but with 2666 never boot


It is easily possible on the Asus A88X-PRO board - as I show on Post 13 of this thread. I'm using GSkill TridentX F3-2666C11(&12)D-16GTXD with the standard XMP timings set at 11-13-13-35-58. Maybe with the XM-PLUS you might take the position that it's there but needs to be tried for and try looser timings - say, Cas12 - and bump the volts up to - but not over - 1.7V.


----------



## djohny24

Im using 2400Mhz CL10-12-12-32.

Wow 2666Mhz... i want it! hehe. Maybe your motherboard is prepared but is imposible for me


----------



## Krusher33

Speaking of RAM's... what's a good one to get for this chip?


----------



## joeybuddy96

My earlier OC attempt that focused on tight RAM settings resulted in a "MEMORY_MANAGEMENT" BSOD, so I've got to start loosening the timings. If I should increase the DRAM voltage, let me know what the maximum safe-ish setting would be while keeping the speeds in mind. Also, I have an 840 Pro and I'm trying to mess around with Magician, but that shouldn't have anything to do with memory_management, except indirectly if I can get RAPID to detect the drive--it would increase memory usage. I'll start doing the stress tests once I get RAPID to run without crashing. Not sure what to start loosening first.
Here's the settings in spreadsheet form:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dDR0QV8xZHJhWmpnaTd4NHR1dTJWdlE#gid=1


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeybuddy96*
> 
> After my earlier post with two sticks http://www.overclock.net/t/1460028/amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-overclock-guide/440#post_21957956, I decided to do the same thing with four sticks.
> Notes that are the same as with the previous testing:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my settings with two sticks of 2400MHz 8GB Team Xtreem on an Extreme6+ with a 7850K, stock heatsink, and a XL R2 case (I left the side cover off for testing since I wanted to be able to see the error codes). Keep in mind that none of this is under load--it's idle in the UEFI, without an OS installed. It more accurately represents the maximum the parts can achieve with stock settings. I haven't gotten to OC'ing my GPU, so that's going to affect thermals too.
> 
> 
> ASRock UEFI settings (read from top to bottom matching the format of the UEFI):
> CPU OC Mode
> 4400MHz
> Manual
> 101
> Disabled
> Disabled
> Manual
> 44 (Returned after leaving the system at the UEFI to find it locked up with Dr. Debug error code 0d, so I lowered it to 44.)
> Internal
> 1.45V
> 0V
> x10
> 1.2875V (got a screen flicker on transition into the UEFI at 1.275V, and after another 0d, this was one of the settings I brought back up.)
> Auto
> Auto
> XMP 1.3 Profile 1
> DDR3-1866 (50'd on previous settings copied from post #447 on 2400 and 2133; 4F'd on 1903 and 1884; the DDR3 can be indirectly set higher than 2400MHz by raising the APU/PCIE Frequency)
> 1.66V (I don't see any reason to go lower. That's its factory rating--if it dies, it won't be because of the voltage. Update 3: after I came back to a 0d, this was one of the settings I put back to its higher setting for stability.)
> 5 (ASRock's minimum setting) 8 (C7'd at 7) 9 (C7'd at 8; tried it with 31 tRAS and 43 tRC and got the same result) 8 (4F'd at 7) 15 (ASRock's minimum setting) 2T (34'd at 1T) 25 (4F'd at 24; also stable when lowered along with tRAS to 26 (RAS to CAS Delay) + (RAS Cycle Time) + (2 clock cycles))) 5 (ASRock's minimum setting) 300ns (C7'd at 160ns; The Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings other than the pre-defined increments) 4 (Again, ASrock limitation; it cannot be set lower than 4) 5 (06'd at 4) 4 (the Extreme6+ doesn't allow settings lower than 4) 12 (ASRock's minimum setting)
> Temperatures average CPU 63C and M/B 34C.
> 
> Here are my system specifications. Note that Sheet 2 is the relevant page.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dEZYb3RORFZxU21jUDh0MWRRSkhhcUE&usp=sharing


----------



## joeybuddy96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> It may be bold but it is true. Canardpc means absolutely nothing. It does not tell you if you are utilizing all 4 cores, it doesn't tell you that you can maintain the speed under full load with stability. I stand by what I say until someone provides full documentation proving stability with prime 95 mixed blend and either OCCT with AVX or IBT /AVX. 4.7 is no cake walk. Keep hallucinating. By the way the Intel-made water cooler is pathetic making your claim all the more unlikely.


I found most of the links to those stress testing programs, but IBT is glitched for all AMD processors, isn't it?
Here's the link to prime95:
http://www.mersenne.org/download/index.php
Here's the link to OCCT with AVX:
http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download
Link to IBT / AVX that works with AMD processors:
?


----------



## cpmee

Quote:


> Link to IBT / AVX that works with AMD processors:
> ?


Here in the first post under Additional software:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1318995/official-fx-8320-fx-8350-vishera-owners-club/0_20


----------



## iceman595

has there been any reports of doing dual graphics or i guess having the cpu/igpu do all the computing and then the gpu doing the graphics? or will it automatically do it but not really Xfiring?

i am doing alot of adobe work photoshop/flash/etc and looking to take advantage of the chip. i heard on linustechtips that the icons when loading a file of pictures load faster on the 7850k.


----------



## yraith

with current drivers, you will have to be tight on dual graphic ... there is only a very small range of cards, like the R7. Will not work with 7790 (I tried







) Hopefully there will be hope for me, but if you get an R7, I see no problems.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yraith*
> 
> with current drivers, you will have to be tight on dual graphic ... there is only a very small range of cards, like the R7. Will not work with 7790 (I tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) Hopefully there will be hope for me, but if you get an R7, I see no problems.


Not quite true. There will be no dual graphics drivers for the R7 260X.


----------



## iceman595

has there been any tests of what the 7850k likes better 4x4gb or 4x8gb?


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Not quite true. There will be no dual graphics drivers for the R7 260X.


the ONLY card that will do dual graphics with the A10-7850K is the R7 250


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> has there been any tests of what the 7850k likes better 4x4gb or 4x8gb?


Neither it prefers two sticks of dimm so go for two 8GB sticks.


----------



## jason793

Is there a program that supports temperature monitoring for these cpus yet?


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason793*
> 
> Is there a program that supports temperature monitoring for these cpus yet?


Only one I've found is AMD Overdrive


----------



## jason793

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> Only one I've found is AMD Overdrive


Thanks for the quick reply. For some reason I can't seem to enable overdrive. It says I need to run auto-tune first, but every time I do that the computer locks up instantly and blue screens after a minute or so.
At stock clocks. Will have to revisit this when I have more time.


----------



## ArcAudios

Please don't consider that I'm full of it, I have my Kaveri A10-7850K at 4.78Ghz with 5 fan air cooling setup.
Using the ASRock Extreme 6+ it's also been possible to get my 1866Mhz Corsair Vengeance up to 2173Mhz @ 10, 11,10,34 & that's something that was not possible with my ASUS board previously.
I have been able to game on this OC well, only title I play is BF4 but experience is good thus far. Am keeping the GPU at 800Mhz as I don't experience any throttling using 800Mhz.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ArcAudios*
> 
> Please don't consider that I'm full of it, I have my Kaveri A10-7850K at 4.78Ghz with 5 fan air cooling setup.
> Using the ASRock Extreme 6+ it's also been possible to get my 1866Mhz Corsair Vengeance up to 2173Mhz @ 10, 11,10,34 & that's something that was not possible with my ASUS board previously.
> I have been able to game on this OC well, only title I play is BF4 but experience is good thus far. Am keeping the GPU at 800Mhz as I don't experience any throttling using 800Mhz.


What voltage?

I still haven't done mine yet. Life is too busy.


----------



## ArcAudios

I am currently using the C6 feature available on the ASRock FM2A88X Extreme 6+ but a good guide on the Voltage required would be 1.53750V for 4.6Ghz. As stated am using C6, while this method would lead to failure under load when gaming on my Llano overclock /ASUS board the ASRock board is proving to be a great overclocker using C6 with voltage changes reducing the temps enough to be manageable.
My maximum overclock on Llano & Kaveri was achieved using the same voltage & setup ran for 2 years without a problem. I'd consider if you need a voltage for 24/7 OC then 1.53750 or 1.53650 would suit. The power delivery on this ASRock board is superior to all I have used before hence why I am able to get the OC stable with C6 enabled and still get a game on.


----------



## DannyDK

Is the extreme 6 board better than the killer board when it comes to power delivery?


----------



## ArcAudios

DannyDK am going on experience with products used myself. Have not had the FM2A88X+ Killer product & couldn't find detail of the power delivery on your board. The Extreme 6+ has the 8 + 2 Power Phase Design but am unsure if it was carried into into the Killer Series which has added features I don't have on the Extreme 6+


----------



## DannyDK

It has 4 + 2


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ArcAudios*
> 
> I am currently using the C6 feature available on the ASRock FM2A88X Extreme 6+ but a good guide on the Voltage required would be 1.53750V for 4.6Ghz. As stated am using C6, while this method would lead to failure under load when gaming on my Llano overclock /ASUS board the ASRock board is proving to be a great overclocker using C6 with voltage changes reducing the temps enough to be manageable.
> My maximum overclock on Llano & Kaveri was achieved using the same voltage & setup ran for 2 years without a problem. I'd consider if you need a voltage for 24/7 OC then 1.53750 or 1.53650 would suit. The power delivery on this ASRock board is superior to all I have used before hence why I am able to get the OC stable with C6 enabled and still get a game on.


That use of C6 will thus close down 2 cores to enable power saving from what I remember. You are likely only on 2 cores or possible 1 not 4 when running this configuration.


----------



## ArcAudios

os2wiz,
Thanks for updating me on C6 as I never had a full understanding of it before. Gonna do some reading on it now.
Cheers


----------



## ASCI Blue

To anyone with a Kaveri 7850 pref running the onboard R7, does the RAM in aida64, the bios, or anything report what it is accurately? eg a 2133 kit as 2133. Without XMP enabled.

According to my bios my ram is running at 1866 'overclocked' as I manually set timings and speeds, the kit I bought is rated for 2133, and stock it runs at 1600. CPU-Z has it rated at 1600 (incorrect speed but correct part number), and aida64 extreme is telling me it's a 1600 kit. My nb speed is at 2 ghz.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a huge issue with the current bios across multiple manufacturers for Kaveri and it's handling of RAM as I've seen countless threads with this problem. Kaveri should be able to handle 2133 stock out of the box according to what I've read.


----------



## ArcAudios

ASCI Blue,

Check your using CPUZ version 1.69 and hit the memory tab. My BCLK is set at 101 leaving my memory at 1086.7Mhz for a Dual Channel kit it doubles = 2173.4Mhz


Sure your Memory should be recorded correctly with this method, mine always has been.
regards


----------



## ASCI Blue

I'm using 1.69, cpuz reports under the spd tab: PC3-12800 with part number F3-17000CL11-4GBXL (2x4 gb) yes they came in the same package. Under my memory tab it has NB @ 1996, DRAM Freq 931.4 10-11-11-11-30-41 I might loosen up some timings a bit more or is a tighter timing at slightly lower frequency higher performance?


----------



## joeybuddy96

I'm using IBT v2.54 (by AgentGOD) set to Stress Level: Maximum (30979MB). I have 4x8GB at 1866MHz (full settings here; it's not necessary to the topic of this post to know what the exact timings are). Approximately how long should a single iteration take to complete? The first one completed in 4215.927 seconds.

I also have prime95 running blend tests. It passes the small iterations without issue, but since the larger iterations are the more taxing ones, is there a way to get it to skip ahead to those? I'm mostly only changing RAM timings, if that has an impact on where the iterations begin.

I'm also running OCCT CPU:LINPACK AVX Capaple Linpack at the same time as prime95 and IBT. The idea is to stress test as much as possible in a short amount of time so I'm not having to wait to find out if the timing changes are successful. In a little while, I'm going to dl and run SuperPi alongside the previous three benchmarks/stress test listed above.
EDIT: SuperPi took 32 minutes, 30 seconds to complete the 32M test.

Update: It appears the current settings are stable. No errors reported in any of the above tests. So now what? I haven't made any changes to APU or NB load-line calibration, and I haven't flashed the firmware on my 780 GTX Ti Classified. The threads dedicated to the card tend to be Intel-centric though, and probably won't cater to ASRock board owners. Any suggestions where to go from here?


----------



## orlfman

I've been really curious on how the 7850K compares to a FX 4300 clock for clock. I've done a few quick google searches but the results I found show it up against another APU or a 4770K. Anyone know how it performs clock for clock vs FX piledriver cores / IPC in gaming with an equal dedicated card?


----------



## matty50racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orlfman*
> 
> I've been really curious on how the 7850K compares to a FX 4300 clock for clock. I've done a few quick google searches but the results I found show it up against another APU or a 4770K. Anyone know how it performs clock for clock vs FX piledriver cores / IPC in gaming with an equal dedicated card?


I have both but my FX is currently being used in a mining rig. I bought the FX for $35 on ebay and put it in an old M5A97 board I had laying around. I did a quick overclock on the 4300 before I put it in my basement with all the other miners and it did 4.5 no problem on the stock cooler. My Kaveri also does 4.5 with a ton of volts, I might just test them both at 4.4 to rule out any throttling. I'll post some benchmarks when I stop mining with it.


----------



## wrtIAp

Guys there is a fix for the x30 multiplier lock when iGPU is on load, in case you haven't learnt about it yet. I got it from http://www.overclock.net/t/1459225/i-have-custom-looped-kaveri-and-am-your-guinea-pig/737#post_21925905

Basically you download AMDmsrtweaker v1.1, and write a .bat file to change the p5 state (which the CPU uses when under iGPU load), just change it your desired multiplier and voltage.
Apparently you have to run the batch file every time you restart, but I personally haven't tried that yet, becuase my computer is still unstable everytime I restart


----------



## Offender_Mullet

New 7850K owner here.







G.Skill Ripjaws Z 2400MHz kit worked like a charm in my ASRock board. Can't wait to mess with overclocking it but since this board has only a 4+2 phase, not sure how much I'll get out of it. I really didn't want to get this particular mobo but it was only $49 with the apu combo at MicroCenter.

I'm actually very impressed with the gaming performance. As of right now, I'm using an ancient CTX 4:3 17" 1280x1024 res lcd














but will be going to a 720p led lcd soon.

Star Wars: The Old Republic flies on this little apu. BF4 multiplayer (used the auto medium settings - haven't tweaked with anything yet) does surprisingly well also.

I'll be honest, I sold my R9 280X on eBay a few months back for a $140 profit. Then, I got rid of the rest of my rig shortly after and used a laptop for everything. After trying to game on a Toshiba Tecra M5 from 2007 lol for the past few months, I decided on this apu budget build and couldn't be happier. I had a Llano when those first came out and this is a _vast_ improvement.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Hey guys, I'm in need of your help, if you're willing to assist.

This week I upgraded my 5800K to a 7850K (had been using the Extreme 6+ for a few months), my issue is that the 7850K won't overclock properly.
Whenever I set the voltages near to what other are using the system will lock up just after boot (at or just after the login screen), no error or BSOD just hangs permanently until I reset the system.
I have gotten some results but to get a stable result a lot of voltage is required (1.55V for 4.4GHz), the EZ OC profiles in the Extreme 6+ BIOS won't even work, as the system hangs at boot as before.

Is there any particular reason why my 7850K won't overclock sensibly? I'm using the 2.90 BIOS (the latest, although I had the 3.xx ones before ASRock removed them).
I'm at a loss here, have no idea what the issue is, my 5800K was stable at 4.6GHz on this board. (All my specs are in my sig rig)

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ASCI Blue

What are you setting all your various frequencies at for north bridge, multiplier, front side bus, etc. Also how do you have your ram speed set?


----------



## Goldn3agle

I've got everything running on stock except the CPU multiplier, because I wanted a stable CPU OC before I moved to the other areas.
The core clock is still at 100, I only overclocked the CPU with the multiplier settings.

NB: Stock x9 multiplier (1800MHz) at the stock 1.2750V (also tried 1.3V)
RAM:8GB (4x2GB) 1600MHz (9-9-9-24 1.5V), also tried lowering to 1333MHz.

LLC CPU: 60%
LLC NB: Auto (100%)

Also tried disabling the C6 state and AMD Cool'n'Quiet, as well as disabling the iGPU.


----------



## FunkZ

My guess is if you up the LLC to gain tighter control at load, you'll be able to reduce the voltage setting. To get 4.5 on mine I had to either up the LLC or go above 1.5v so I was able to get it stable with 1.45 with the LLC on "Extreme". Rather than drop at load, voltage boosts up to 1.48 with that LLC setting. Also Kaveri do not clock as high as previous APU due to the new manufacturing, 4.4 - 4.5 seems to be the average, particularly with air cooling.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> My guess is if you up the LLC to gain tighter control at load, you'll be able to reduce the voltage setting. To get 4.5 on mine I had to either up the LLC or go above 1.5v so I was able to get it stable with 1.45 with the LLC on "Extreme". Rather than drop at load, voltage boosts up to 1.48 with that LLC setting. Also Kaveri do not clock as high as previous APU due to the new manufacturing, 4.4 - 4.5 seems to be the average, particularly with air cooling.


Thanks for the info, I'll have a tinker with the LLC now and see if I can get it stable.

*EDIT* Made a little progress, set the CPU multiplier to 45, LLC to 0% and applied 1.45V with an offset of 30mV (otherwise it would hang immediately again) I ran Prime95 for about 25 Mins with no issues; the CPU maxed at around 52C.

The issue is that the system locked up right after I stopped the stress test, the system still hangs if left for a few minutes after login. I tried increasing the voltage offset to balance out the VDroop, which is what I'm assuming is causing the lockup, but I hit a thermal barrier before the lockup would stop occurring.

This chip is so much more of a b***h to overclock than my 5800K was.


----------



## Thorfkin

Has anyone else using an Asus A88X Pro motherboard with a Kaveri APU found that the XMP settings recommended by the Asus ram-speed tool in the bios are incorrect after the new version 1001 bios update? With the previous v904 bios it reported the correct timings: 2133 9-11-11-31. Now after the version 1001 update it recommends 2133 7-9-9-24. I'm using a G-Skill F3-2133C9D-16GTX memory kit. I know for a fact the system won't post with the settings recommended by the motherboard's speed utility now. The system is rock solid as long as I manually enter the correct timings.


----------



## agrims

I never trust any auto settings for ram.... You wouldn't trust a auto CPU or NB OC, why would you trust the memory to auto OC?

Does anyone have a setting in the bios called PLL voltage? My FM2 board does and it helps get a stable OC at a lower Vcore.. Maybe something to look for and try?


----------



## cpmee

Quote:


> I never trust any auto settings for ram.... You wouldn't trust a auto CPU or NB OC, why would you trust the memory to auto OC?


Absolutely right. With Auto, youre never sure of what you get.


----------



## Nixem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diplomacy*
> 
> I don't know but I think something fishy is up with these new AMD chips. I just took the IHS off mine and yep there was a thermal pad (not paste) in between the chip and IHS. I took the pad out and filled the volume underneath the IHS completely with AS ceramique 2. My temps are down 20*C from before.


Seriously, a thermal pad? Do you have any pics by any chance?


----------



## andyc123

Hi Guys,

Been reading this thread for a while and I've just built a 7850k based system with an MSI R9 290 GPU and some HyperX 2400mhz RAM.

I'm also using the MSI A88XM Gaming motherboard and windows 8.1.

The problem I'm having is getting the R9 290 to work properly, it keeps saying the 'Display Driver Stopped Responding'.

I've noticed a couple of you also run a 290(x) with the 7850k and I'm wondering what drivers you are using?

Thanks


----------



## Gomi

Right - My hobby (And left-over pieces of hardware) just collided with what the Wife wants - Resulting in the birth (or comming) of what will probably be one of the weirdest Kevari systems I seen so far.

*From me:*

Left over Little Devil Phase Change cooler (I know, weird thing to collect dust). Can hold -60C without load and -34C at 220 watt load.
G.SKILL TridentX 2666Mhz (2*4GB)
Corsair AX860i (Been wanting to use this for awhile, will serve the needs of this system with alot of room to spare).
Samsung EVO 250GB SSD

*From her:*

MSI R7 250 (Boost edition with 2 Gb DDR3 memory). XFX R7 250 (The wife suddenly became aware of a color scheme, lol).
7850K

*From Ebay:*

Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 (Had to get this from Ebay as there are NO plans to launch this motherboard here in Europe - Paid 45 USD for it).

*Local shop:*

Pre-ordered the new Lian Li PC-A51 (The Black/Black version with a window, might aswell show off this build) - The dimensions of the case is a PERFECT match for the LD Phase Change cooler, and with the PSU in front of the case, I can route the tube from the LD through the case).
I already know I will have to make a custom BIOS do get away from the P states when using CPU and iGPU at the same time, no problems there.

Will keep you updated on what Kevari can do when hooked up to a 24/7 Phase system.


----------



## drmrlordx

Sounds interesting. I'll keep an eye on this thread. Custom BIOS you say? Also interesting . . .


----------



## imiksimi

Hi

Haven't bothered with Pc's in years , my kids have started getting into pc gaming and I have decided it's time to make a return.

I used to overclock my systems back in the day and just curious but, when people are changing bclk are they also dropping the multi , while maintaing the ratio roughly. Because thats how we used to do it back in the day , so am guessing if you wanted to raise memory clock dropping the cpu multi would be first then you'd find you have to jump bclk to whichever frequency brings the systems ratios roughly back into phase. ( there is a good chance things have changed since i've been gone )

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1508196

Not my venice 3000 ( mine used to get to 2.7ghz 100% stable and was lightning quick to respond )

The only side effect is that you have to make sure any frequency that might alter due to bclk is either locked or stable at adjusted speed, I found that alot of instability came from pci frequency knock on ( again not sure if that is relavent anymore )

I'll be buying a Kaveri soon and will do the math see if there is any viable bclk jumps available


----------



## drmrlordx

Before you do this, be advised that most people have had no luck raising the BCLK on Kaveri past 105-107mhz. I've heard of one guy with an Extreme 4+ board that could do it, and I'm currently talking to a guy with an Asus Pro board that has hit 110 mhz BCLK (he was limited by GPU multiplier, which he neglected to lower) after disabling all power-saving features.

So, I'm thinking it CAN be done, but it isn't easy. Also, the only available Kaveri chips (7700k, 7850k) have fully-unlocked multipliers, so the only reason to raise BCLK is to exceed DDR3-2400 speeds, or to dial in extremely precise CPU/NB speeds.


----------



## shopoyk

I'm an owner of 7700k together with 16GB of Kingston hyperX beast 2666 and G1 sniper (F8C bios) gigabyte A88x.
Lately, i have been testing all possible bios configurations and i would like to share with you my resutls:

1) if you use discrete GPU like me (HD6950), you must format windows 8.1 (use only win 8.1 with kaveri....you cant marry new hardware with old software) without dGPU installed, put drivers from AMD site for 7700k and then reboot with dGPU online, and then install latest drivers 14.4 with mantle. With this option you have 2 graphics cards , DO NOT disable APU graphics card, it is needed for HSA and HuMA.

2) Enable IOMMU in bios before installing windows.....with this option you get HSA drivers installed.

3) NEver play with voltages of Northbridge(NB). These chips come with very strict factory voltages and you may get stuttering on games if you push too much voltage.

4) I have super stable 4.2 GHz 7700k , with offset voltage of 0.070 volts, LLC extreme , NB auto, and EVERYTHING else on auto. By using CPUID you may check that Northbridge frequency fluctuates from 1.4 to 1.8 GHz when it is needed. Dont change that. Memory runs on 2400MHz, with XMP profile 1 and AMP profile enabled.

5) Disable C6, APM, TURBO , Cool N Quiet, enable SVM (believe me it counts), auto voltage on DRAM.

With all the above settings i get 41.5 FPS on thief (max out) with 6950 installed and 55.6 FPS max FPS.

PS: remember to format windows if you add discrete graphics card.

PS2: dont push chip more than 4.2 Ghz.......you get nothing in terms of performance and you lose stability,increase temps etc.

I hope that i helped you.


----------



## Centauri

I've gone through the past several pages of this thread and it seems all of the focus is on memory and CPU clocks. Anybody care to comment/advise on their GPU clocks/voltages?


----------



## GreatChicken

Wasn't there one on the first few pages? +0.072v Northbridge GPU at 900mhz. I have this on btw.

A word of advice to those running a Gigabyte board. Do NOT put the voltage on Auto; Giga seems to love to overvolt "just to be safe", and depending on your PSU the result might not be stable. +0.0v and Turbocore works quite well for anything up to the 3.99ghz used in stock Turbocore. You can even enable C&Q here if you want (and in fact this is the only way to undervolt through a Giga board. <_<).

I'm a day into these and I'm quite happy. :3

PS: Centauri you have the exact same setup as me, give or take a few periphals and the RAM. Maybe mine will work?


----------



## wrtIAp

cpu x40 @1.29375V, NB 2000Mhz and igpu 900Mhz at NB 1.1875V.
RAM 2400Mhz @1.65V 10-12-12-31

I've used AmdMsrTweaker to stop CPU throttling when igpu is on load, and then programs crash every time I test it, does anyone know if CPU or NB voltage needs to go higher to support both loading at the same time? Or maybe it's something to do with RAM? After running both on full load for a while, programs like DWM.exe start crashing, and if I ignore and keep going, usually ends up in bluescreen. I'd be grateful if anyone could guess what these symptoms indicate. I've tried going up to 1.4V on CPU for CPU+igpu full load, but things still will be unstable.


----------



## GreatChicken

I suspect the NB wants a bit more rather than the CPU.

The NB volt runs the GPU btw, well at least that's what it looks like on my Gigabyte board.


----------



## wrtIAp

If I remember correctly, I have done some testing with higher NB voltages, will try some more maybe later.
But will the GPU require higher voltage when the CPU is in use too? Because it is perfectly stable as far as I can tell when it's running alone, and the CPU idle. But computer crashes within minutes when both are in full load.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> cpu x40 @1.29375V, NB 2000Mhz and igpu 900Mhz at NB 1.1875V.
> RAM 2400Mhz @1.65V 10-12-12-31
> 
> I've used AmdMsrTweaker to stop CPU throttling when igpu is on load, and then programs crash every time I test it, does anyone know if CPU or NB voltage needs to go higher to support both loading at the same time? Or maybe it's something to do with RAM? After running both on full load for a while, programs like DWM.exe start crashing, and if I ignore and keep going, usually ends up in bluescreen. I'd be grateful if anyone could guess what these symptoms indicate. I've tried going up to 1.4V on CPU for CPU+igpu full load, but things still will be unstable.


Kaveri was primarily designed for mobile purposes even though we are using the desktop version. It has throttling built into it and there is no bios setting at present that can prevent it. Once under full load the cpu will revert to 3.0 GHZ running it with higher northbridge is a complete waste of time. Keep the northbridge at 2000 and don't try to overvolt a whole lot. . Those here who claim to run at 4.5 or 4.6 GHZ are doing so basically on without full load, because under load it throttles as I and others have observed. This is NOT a high performance chip. Yes you can up the igpu to just under 1000 mhz but that causes a whole lot of heat and all sorts of issues. I suspect the next update of Kaveri in 2015 wikll resolve some of these issues, but we will not get any powerhouse chips from AMD untill 2016 if then.


----------



## wrtIAp

The throttling to x30 multiplier can be removed using AmdMsrTweaker, which can be used to edit the different CPU states. But I just seem to have an unstable system and was wondering if anyone could guide me on how to improve on it.
And as far as I know I'm keeping everything quite undervolted (my ASRock had CPU at 1.4V on stock!).
Ram bandwidth is something I'm quite disappointed at, but apparently there's nothing I can do about it.


----------



## RabbitRu

You are really pessimistic.
I am running my PC at [email protected],[email protected],[email protected](105 bclk) for 2 months and I havent seen a single crash\bsod or overheat.
A little CPU overclock is usefull for because I am not always playing games,some times I need to compile a programm or make some calculations(I'm studing computer science in bmstu) and the speedup is noticable.


----------



## joeybuddy96

I found this discussion regarding p-states. Has anyone here used rw-everything to edit the MSR registers?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288356-ASRock-FM2A88X-Extreme6-A10-7700K-observations/page3

I turned off C6 and cnq, switched to PWM from internal, left NB LLC on Auto, and changed APU LLC to 60%. I've run IBT, Prime95, and OCCT with AVX, no instability so far.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dDR0QV8xZHJhWmpnaTd4NHR1dTJWdlE&usp=drive_web#gid=1


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shopoyk*
> 
> I'm an owner of 7700k together with 16GB of Kingston hyperX beast 2666 and G1 sniper (F8C bios) gigabyte A88x.
> Lately, i have been testing all possible bios configurations and i would like to share with you my resutls:
> 
> 1) if you use discrete GPU like me (HD6950), you must format windows 8.1 (use only win 8.1 with kaveri....you cant marry new hardware with old software) without dGPU installed, put drivers from AMD site for 7700k and then reboot with dGPU online, and then install latest drivers 14.4 with mantle. With this option you have 2 graphics cards , DO NOT disable APU graphics card, it is needed for HSA and HuMA.
> 
> 2) Enable IOMMU in bios before installing windows.....with this option you get HSA drivers installed.
> 
> 3) NEver play with voltages of Northbridge(NB). These chips come with very strict factory voltages and you may get stuttering on games if you push too much voltage.
> 
> 4) I have super stable 4.2 GHz 7700k , with offset voltage of 0.070 volts, LLC extreme , NB auto, and EVERYTHING else on auto. By using CPUID you may check that Northbridge frequency fluctuates from 1.4 to 1.8 GHz when it is needed. Dont change that. Memory runs on 2400MHz, with XMP profile 1 and AMP profile enabled.
> 
> 5) Disable C6, APM, TURBO , Cool N Quiet, enable SVM (believe me it counts), auto voltage on DRAM.
> 
> With all the above settings i get 41.5 FPS on thief (max out) with 6950 installed and 55.6 FPS max FPS.
> 
> If I have windows already installed will enabling IOMMU give anything?
> PS: remember to format windows if you add discrete graphics card.
> 
> PS2: dont push chip more than 4.2 Ghz.......you get nothing in terms of performance and you lose stability,increase temps etc.
> 
> I hope that i helped you.


If I have windows installed already and IOMMU disabled, does enabling it give any benefit?


----------



## wrtIAp

For those who disable CnQ, could you explain a little bit about what it does? I suspect that my be what's causing my instability.
With CnQ enabled, the CPU multiplier will go down to x17 when idle, but voltages seem to fluctuate when not on 100% load. (like on x30 multiplier, voltage goes from 0.9-1.11V, I'm guessing that may be what's cauing my crashes sometimes)
However with it disabled, the CPU stays at x40 multiplier all the time and I definitely do not like that at all.
Is there any way make voltages stable + downclock on idle? I have AmdMsrTweaker, but the voltages set there just seem to be the upper limit, and will fluctuate below when CnQ enabled.


----------



## void

You have just described what Cool n' Quiet does yourself, its a power management feature used to reduce the multiplier and voltage when processing power is not in demand.

As to whether it can fix your problem you haven't given much information. Does you system crash at idle?


----------



## wrtIAp

sometimes it crashes on startup(everything freezes until I force restart), or DWM.exe or some programs stop responding
Othertimes, it may just cause games to suddenly close when I'm playing.
Actually it may not be due to the CPU, as I've tried undervolting it on purpose and it seems to cause bsod.
Note: Even if I never go to BIOS and just directly reboot, each time results may differ. Sometimes nothing ever crashes, and I leave the system on for a week or 2.
Basically, whether my system is stable or not seems to be determined on startup


----------



## semperaye

Has anyone tried adding a r7 250 in hybrid crossfire with an OVERCLOCKED CPU/IGPU a10-7850k?


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Has anyone tried adding a r7 250 in hybrid crossfire with an OVERCLOCKED CPU/IGPU a10-7850k?


I am currently building a Phase Change cooled system with a 7850K and R7 250 - (Have a build-log) - The system should be up and running this week for some weekend-uber-sauce-overclocking and benching.

Hopefully the Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 will be delivered this week, Gigabyte, in their infinite wisdon, decided to only release this motherboard in Asia and US - And you cannot find a FM2+ board with better VRM than the UP4 - So had to grab one from Ebay.

My OC priority are as follows:
iGPU
RAM
CPU

I want to squeeze every drop out of the iGPU when in sub-zero and then tinker with the memory before boosting the CPU - The R7 250 should only take 30 minutes to overclock, with the simplicity of GPU overclocking these days.


----------



## iceman595

hey guys so just letting you know about my findings

I was able to get 2400 MHz on 4x4gb memory for my 7850k relatively easy

just put in all 4 sticks, set timings in bios, voltage was already set at 1.65 for mem and went good to go. ive had no issues in anything, running unigine benchmarks stable, gaming stable, so far so good.

Now about to try and OC the igpu and cpu


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> hey guys so just letting you know about my findings
> 
> I was able to get 2400 MHz on 4x4gb memory for my 7850k relatively easy
> 
> just put in all 4 sticks, set timings in bios, voltage was already set at 1.65 for mem and went good to go. ive had no issues in anything, running unigine benchmarks stable, gaming stable, so far so good.
> 
> Now about to try and OC the igpu and cpu


same for me, only choose XMP profile and good to go


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> same for me, only choose XMP profile and good to go


I don't even remember if I set it to xmp or not

also I didn't touch the NB as I'm not sure what it even does


----------



## wrtIAp

Ok this is strange, I've now massively undervolted my NB voltage down to 1.125V with iGPU at 900Mhz and NB 2000Mhz, and as far as I can see, things are actually stable at the moment.
Could someone confirm that this voltage is actally lower than normal, or some good stress tests I could use?


----------



## joeybuddy96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> The throttling to x30 multiplier can be removed using AmdMsrTweaker, which can be used to edit the different CPU states. But I just seem to have an unstable system and was wondering if anyone could guide me on how to improve on it.
> And as far as I know I'm keeping everything quite undervolted (my ASRock had CPU at 1.4V on stock!).
> Ram bandwidth is something I'm quite disappointed at, but apparently there's nothing I can do about it.


Does it throttle when CnQ is disabled? I'm trying to understand the voltage settings at the highest level: the highest I've set voltage on the CPU is 1.45V at 4300MHz. System instability started appearing when at the same 1.45V at 4400MHz, but 4400MHz seems to be the highest setting I've seen most frequently over several forums. I haven't tested stability at lower voltages. I've done other testing not related to voltage while running Prime95, Intel Burn, and OCCT with AMX this brings it under max load. I'll have to test it again to see if any throttling is present. I have cnq, apm, C6, and turbo disabled. I'd like to know if I can just set it to the maximum setting and leave it there 24/7. I'm probably going to try rw-everything instead of AMDMsrTweaker, since there's a more complete tutorial on XtremeSystems' forum. I have Win8.1 instead of Win7 like they seem to be using on their forum. I'm using a stock heatsink, and don't intend to use the iGPU at all, so the temps get as hot as 75C. What is the lowest voltage I should go with at 4400MHz? I was also thinking about undervolting and underclocking--like maybe trying to see what the lowest possible multiplier and voltage setting I could use without the system turning off--the emphasis would be on lowest possible voltage for p-1, and the highest would be what I apparently have 24/7, 43x, with seven equal-ish voltage iterations. Seems like turbo is unnecessary when I've got seven power states, unless it's a requirement to set those, in which case it would be eight or so iterations. Am I getting close to accurate? I didn't even know what p-states were until Sunday. :\

Also, what kind of specifications should one look for in a high-frequency oscilloscope?


----------



## shopoyk

nitrubb, in order for IOMMU to work perfectly, you must install AMD drivers again....
Please check HSA options in catalyst configuration


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shopoyk*
> 
> nitrubb, in order for IOMMU to work perfectly, you must install AMD drivers again....
> Please check HSA options in catalyst configuration


Where can I find HSA options? Also, does enabling IOMMU help resolve the memory clearing issues I sometimes have? Even when nothing is running windows shows over 2GB is used instead of normal 1.0 or 1.1 when idling.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gomi*
> 
> I am currently building a Phase Change cooled system with a 7850K and R7 250 - (Have a build-log) - The system should be up and running this week for some weekend-uber-sauce-overclocking and benching.
> 
> Hopefully the Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 will be delivered this week, Gigabyte, in their infinite wisdon, decided to only release this motherboard in Asia and US - And you cannot find a FM2+ board with better VRM than the UP4 - So had to grab one from Ebay.
> 
> My OC priority are as follows:
> iGPU
> RAM
> CPU
> 
> I want to squeeze every drop out of the iGPU when in sub-zero and then tinker with the memory before boosting the CPU - The R7 250 should only take 30 minutes to overclock, with the simplicity of GPU overclocking these days.


Cetrainly the vrm for the Asus A88X Pro is the equal of that board.


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Cetrainly the vrm for the Asus A88X Pro is the equal of that board.


Nope, the VRM on the Gigabyte UP4 are the PowIRstage™ IR3550M MOSFETs, also used in their top overclock motherboards (Z87 Force). If I recall correctly the Asus boards use slightly inferior, not alot but enough for me to choose the UP4 when doing exotic cooling.


----------



## wrtIAp

It still throttles with CnQ disabled. By the way, does the CPU change P-states at all with CnQ disabled(other than when iGPU is on load)? If not, then are you still x44 @1.45V on idle?
And maybe you should look into getting a better cooler, others seem to be running at much lower temps.
And when you find out, can you share your lowest CPU voltages you can get to? I'm using x40 @1.29375V, but doesn't seem to be very stable yet.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeybuddy96*
> 
> I'm using a stock heatsink, and don't intend to use the iGPU at all, so the temps get as hot as 75C.


You're using the stock heatsink while overclocking? Good luck getting a meaningful OC stable at anything over stock. The standard coolers AMD provides are barely adequate for standard settings. I'm not bashing you or your attempt but you're starting off handicapped with stock cooling. There are many cheap air coolers that will allow you to unleash the chip with overclocking (CM Hyper Evo, Scythe Mugen 4, etc)


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quick question guys: How much vram do you have the igpu share, 1GB or 2gb? I have it set to the defaulted to 1GB but wanted to know if setting it to 2GB would provide any gaming performance benefits.

Edit: Forgot to add, with my 8GB of ram my ASRock board gives me a 2GB igpu vram limit.


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> Quick question guys: How much vram do you have the igpu share, 1GB or 2gb? I have it set to the defaulted to 1GB but wanted to know if setting it to 2GB would provide any gaming performance benefits.


piggyback off of this, WHERE would I change the igpu memory allocation? what is the max I can give it?


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> piggyback off of this, WHERE would I change the igpu memory allocation? what is the max I can give it?


Setting should be in BIOS. As for how much, that likely will depend on the mobo maker


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> Setting should be in BIOS. As for how much, that likely will depend on the mobo maker


but WHERE in the bios


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> but WHERE in the bios


Since every BIOS is a bit different, it's hard to say. I'd suggest any Advanced settings.In the case of my MSI A88XM Gaming mobo it's under Settings>Advanced


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> Since every BIOS is a bit different, it's hard to say. I'd suggest any Advanced settings.In the case of my MSI A88XM Gaming mobo it's under Settings>Advanced


alright i'll have to look around when I get home, any idea of what it might be called? like gpu ram/etc?


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> alright i'll have to look around when I get home, any idea of what it might be called? like gpu ram/etc?


Once again it depends on the mobo maker. sadly there doesn't seem to be any standard for terms.


----------



## tuklap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> First things first you aren't stable. Look up your ram timings and voltage settings and set them manually. XMP is a crapshoot on AMD boards as they are kind of an Intel thing.
> 
> Of the 5 of us currently riding the Kaveri bandwagon, I believe I am the only one who was able to set the stock XMP profile of my ram and not have issues.
> 
> So manually set your ram to something stable and we can go from there.
> 
> I will say there isn't much difference to setting an APU from my limited experience but keep in mind you are with us sailing into fairly unknown territory at this point. Even the best OC'r on here's advice to you at the moment may fail catastrophically.
> 
> As an example my Kaveri is absurdly pampered at this point with my custom water cooling set up never allowing it to reach temps beyond 50C no matter the voltage or stress I put on it. That being said even at 1.512 volts if I go a hair over 4.5 GHz it's instant freeze or crash.
> 
> Uncharted territory is scary and without reason. So that's why you need to be rock solid stable before you even dream of going any further. So let's get that ram stable first because until then all other concerns while running unstable are a distant secondary.


Make it 6 ^_^


----------



## wrtIAp

I think I finally have my system stable (might be wrong).
ASRock FM2A88X Extreme 4+ (VRMs get way too hot on this 4+2 phase mobo though)
CPU: 100Mhz, x40 multiplier, 1.29375V, 50% LLC
iGPU: 900Mhz
NB: 2000Mhz, 1.35V, 50% LLC
RAM: 2400Mhz, 10-12-12-31, 1.65V (all from XMP Profile)
APU pcie VDDP voltage: 1.052V (auto) %no idea what this does, but some people have found it useful to tweak it
I have also set my CPU P5 state so that it no longer throttles when iGPU is under load, though I haven't tested running both CPU+iGPU on full for extended duration as it gets very hot and noisy.


----------



## void

Usually the manual will have an overview of the BIOS and it's options. But if you tell us the make and model of your board someone can help.

*Edit*: This was supposed to be in reply to the user asking about where to allocate memory to iGPU.


----------



## wrtIAp

ok I finally seem to have my system stable (might be wrong)
CPU: 100Mhz, x40multiplier, 1.29375V, 50% LLC
NB: 2000Mhz, 1.35V, 50% LLC
iGPU: 900Mhz
RAM: 2400Mhz, 10-12-12-31, 1.65V (XMP Profile)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> I think I finally have my system stable (might be wrong).
> ASRock FM2A88X Extreme 4+ (VRMs get way too hot on this 4+2 phase mobo though)
> CPU: 100Mhz, x40 multiplier, 1.29375V, 50% LLC
> iGPU: 900Mhz
> NB: 2000Mhz, 1.35V, 50% LLC
> RAM: 2400Mhz, 10-12-12-31, 1.65V (all from XMP Profile)
> APU pcie VDDP voltage: 1.052V (auto) %no idea what this does, but some people have found it useful to tweak it
> I have also set my CPU P5 state so that it no longer throttles when iGPU is under load, though I haven't tested running both CPU+iGPU on full for extended duration as it gets very hot and noisy.


Nevermind.. found out was not stable, back to default for everything for now.
Does anyone know a method to test if I am stable or not? I can run benchmarks for hours, but then in games, it may ocassionally cause crashes.
And is there a way to see my stock NB voltage?


----------



## kyfire

On my MSI A88XM gaming mobo using AMD overdrive it shows the A10-7850K's NB VID at stock as 1.375


----------



## tuklap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> I think I finally have my system stable (might be wrong).
> ASRock FM2A88X Extreme 4+ (VRMs get way too hot on this 4+2 phase mobo though)
> CPU: 100Mhz, x40 multiplier, 1.29375V, 50% LLC
> iGPU: 900Mhz
> NB: 2000Mhz, 1.35V, 50% LLC
> RAM: 2400Mhz, 10-12-12-31, 1.65V (all from XMP Profile)
> APU pcie VDDP voltage: 1.052V (auto) %no idea what this does, but some people have found it useful to tweak it
> I have also set my CPU P5 state so that it no longer throttles when iGPU is under load, though I haven't tested running both CPU+iGPU on full for extended duration as it gets very hot and noisy.


I got an ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+.. Seems that i'll be experiencing the same on this board.. because it has a 8+2 phase
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> On my MSI A88XM gaming mobo using AMD overdrive it shows the A10-7850K's NB VID at stock as 1.375


ang you overclock at?? is your VRM temps good? i suppose extreme 4+ is same as your mobo's VRM phases yes?

Looking at this link..
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Avoxk_HEpJEbdDYyU3BOenBQRWhSdkpKejFwQzBUTXc&output=html&widget=true
Too many MSI Boards..


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> On my MSI A88XM gaming mobo using AMD overdrive it shows the A10-7850K's NB VID at stock as 1.375


So have you lowered it, or just left it at that? And did you manage to overclock?


----------



## wrtIAp

Guys, can someone explain whether the CPU NB voltage safe limits are determined by CPU or motherboard? Because my ASRock FM2A88X extreme 4+ has a very high stock NB voltage, and I even emailed them asking if it was safe. Their reply was
"The CPU_NB voltage will be changed with DRAM frequency and the default CPU_NB voltage is 1.4V when DRAM frequency is DDR3-2400.
We wouldn't use it if it wasn't safe. It is also in our best interest to keep the motherboard alive







"
If the CPU NB voltage is totally motherboard depenedent, then I'd be happy to set it to such a high value I guess. But if it also depends on CPU, I don't think it'd be that safe, as other motherboards set it to a much lower value, or is this logic not right?


----------



## agrims

CPU NB voltage isn't CPU specific as not all CPU's have an integrated NB. However, all NB voltage is ram speed dependent, as with faster ram speeds, ie 2400, you will need to run a nb at an equal or greater speed, which requires more voltage. I have an analogy that I like to use for this:

Ram is a woman, the NB is the man.... If the ram waits on the NB, the kingdom burns; it the NB waits on the ram, all is right and well.

The NB is required to be at or faster than the ram, or else you run into issues with a speed sync. Say you run a NB of 2200-2400mhz, but a ram speed at 1600MHz. You lose nothing as the ram is instantly accessed. swap it and the ram is bogged down, unable to clear itself out before the next task... Problems!


----------



## wrtIAp

well the stock NB freq is 1800Mhz, and the highest I can get it to is 2000Mhz(same for everyone else I believe). And from what I've heard, the NB voltage also affects the iGPU for the 7850k, so does that mean the NB is CPU integrated? If so, 1.4V doesn't seem safe..


----------



## Gomi

I'm running my NB at 2400Mhz, no problems at all.


----------



## wrtIAp

oh wow nice, which mobo are you using btw?


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> oh wow nice, which mobo are you using btw?


Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4.

Sig rig (Frozen Kaveri).


----------



## nitrubbb

I have asrock killer board and 2400 is stable as a table simply by selecting XMP profile, nothing else.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> I have asrock killer board and 2400 is stable as a table simply by selecting XMP profile, nothing else.


Me too, but my NB frequency can't go any higher than 2400Mhz


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Me too, but my NB frequency can't go any higher than 2400Mhz


Not sure what you are trying to accomplish, as @agrims already stated you will not really gain anything by adding more than 2400Mhz on the NB - Not when running your memory at 2400Mhz.

Just be happy that your NB can do 2400Mhz, as it is not seen that often (As you stated yourself, most seem to stall at around 2000Mhz) - And that it thereby can keep up with your 2400Mhz memory


----------



## wrtIAp

Sorry, I meant to say I can't go any higher than 2000Mhz. And I don't know if it's needed to be any higher for 2400Mhz ram.
I'm currenly only using 1800Mhz NB though


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Sorry, I meant to say I can't go any higher than 2000Mhz. And I don't know if it's needed to be any higher for 2400Mhz ram.
> I'm currenly only using 1800Mhz NB though


Should it be? Of course! You are knee capping the system if you are lower than the ram speed. Read my analogy and it will make since! 1800 is way to slow, 2000 is better but still too slow. Theoretically you should be at the ram speed, best to be a bit faster!


----------



## wrtIAp

Yes I understand what you are trying to say. But is RAM bandwidth = NB bandwidth when frequencies are the same? And the thing is I can't get it any higher than 2000Mhz at all


----------



## agrims

Yes, they are running the same bandwidth when at the same frequencies. The NB is designed to handle the bandwidth, that's what it is there for! I would recommend bumping it to 2000 at a minimum. Then try and get a bclk bump, even a slight one would help.


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> Yes, they are running the same bandwidth when at the same frequencies. The NB is designed to handle the bandwidth, that's what it is there for! I would recommend bumping it to 2000 at a minimum. Then try and get a bclk bump, even a slight one would help.


but what exactly does the NB do?

so if I'm running the NB @ stock 1800 its handicapping the 2400mhz ram?

should I run the NB voltage higher than stock if I put it at 2400?


----------



## FunkZ

This was pointed out earlier in the thread... if you have DDR3-2400 memory it is running at 1200MHz, not 2400Mhz. Thus it is still safely running slower than the stock 1800MHz NB.


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> This was pointed out earlier in the thread... if you have DDR3-2400 memory it is running at 1200MHz, not 2400Mhz. Thus it is still safely running slower than the stock 1800MHz NB.


If it's running in dual channel, yes it is running at 2400MHz


----------



## GreatChicken

*Double Data Rate* to be exact. Not Dual Channel.


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> but what exactly does the NB do?
> 
> so if I'm running the NB @ stock 1800 its handicapping the 2400mhz ram?
> 
> should I run the NB voltage higher than stock if I put it at 2400?


Ok, again, yes you are knee capping the whole of your system by running the NB so low. I will give you a basic description of the NB and refer you to google for a more in depth explanation:

The NB acts as a type of hub through which various motherboard parts are able to communicate to the CPU and vice versa. One of the biggest communicators is the ram.

For the SB that is the same thing only it's biggest customer is the sata devices, ie HDD and SSD.

DDR ram is double data rate. The majority of boards run dual channel which means you can split the data stream in two, ie a quad core can run two cores per channel of ram, vice one channel for all cores to share.

Double data rate means that the stick runs at half the speed you are showing, and multiplied by two. The NB should be in sync with the total speed, not the half speed shown in CPU-z.


----------



## FunkZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> Double data rate means that the stick runs at half the speed you are showing, and multiplied by two. The NB should be in sync with the total speed, not the half speed shown in CPU-z.


Yes, DDR transfers data on the rising and falling edges of the clock signal to get twice the rate of the operating frequency. So with DDR3-2400 you're getting an "effective" rate of 2400 although it's only clocked at 1200MHz. If you're saying that the NB should run in excess of the DDR rate then why does AMD create a chip that runs at 1800MHz stock NB yet fully support DDR3-2133? And as a further point, if 1800MHz NB is capping the performance of memory then why does swapping from DDR3-1866 to DDR3-2400 or even DDR3-2133 show an improvement? And to go one step more, why does increasing NB frequency show little to no performance increase at all?


----------



## DannyDK

My rig wont boot with nb higher than 2000. Why is it even posible to raise nb to 2600 in bios if system wont boot and what performance increase would be seen it it would?


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FunkZ*
> 
> Yes, DDR transfers data on the rising and falling edges of the clock signal to get twice the rate of the operating frequency. So with DDR3-2400 you're getting an "effective" rate of 2400 although it's only clocked at 1200MHz. If you're saying that the NB should run in excess of the DDR rate then why does AMD create a chip that runs at 1800MHz stock NB yet fully support DDR3-2133? And as a further point, if 1800MHz NB is capping the performance of memory then why does swapping from DDR3-1866 to DDR3-2400 or even DDR3-2133 show an improvement? And to go one step more, why does increasing NB frequency show little to no performance increase at all?


Why does AMD make it? The iGPU runs independently of the NB in the way it accesses the ram. So you will see an increase. The NB is there to give the CPU access to the ram, and therefore needs the NB boost to run at its peak efficiency.

I am fairly confident that a quick forum or google search will yield evidence of my claims. Research for yourself.

As for the NB not wanting to run past 2000mhz, it seems to be a common thing with this chip, and I believe it is a mobo issue, as there are 2 boards that seem to not display this issue commonly. The ASUS pro and gigabyte up4.

The small perf increase is due to only bumping 200mhz on the NB.


----------



## Gomi

Regarding the whole NB frequency thing.

I own the UP4 and going from STOCK NB frequency to 2400Mhz (Without any problems, I simply switched in the BIOS and everything works) I gained ~10FPS in multiple Benchmarks, so yes - It does matter.


----------



## GreatChicken

Interesting.

I'm running my NB at 2000mhz currently. So getting the logic behind the last few posts straight, I should be running my NB at 2133mhz?

(2133mhz RAM, and it is running at that speed...)


----------



## DannyDK

I have the asrock killer board and 2400mhz hyperx ram from kingston in dual channel, would there be a way for me to get my nb pass the 2000 barier and further more, what should voltage be set to(it runs 1.275 standard)


----------



## drmrlordx

You should be able to enjoy improved CPU performance from any increase in NB speed due to reduced latency of communications between the CPU and the memory controller. This reduction translates into an improvement in overall memory latency. It may also improve effective bandwidth.

Running the NB at a speed higher than the CPU may not yield any benefits; furthermore, I can't promise that higher NB speeds will improve iGPU performance, though it may. It really depends on whether or not the NB struggles to handle memory read/write requests from the iGPU.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> I'm running my NB at 2000mhz currently. So getting the logic behind the last few posts straight, I should be running my NB at 2133mhz?
> 
> (2133mhz RAM, and it is running at that speed...)


Yes, just increase the multi to x22 to have 2200MHz and perhaps a slight voltage increase if it isn't fully stable.


----------



## Goldn3agle

If my NB won't overclock past 2200MHz does it stand to reason that buying 2400MHz would be pointless because of the NBs lower speed? I'm curious because I plan on upgrading to faster RAM soon and I don't want to waste money on memory I can't use to its potential.

Also on another note what do you guys think of using the x264 v2 Stress Test as an OC stress testing utility? The Haswell chaps use it as their preferred test, I've been trying it for a couple of days and it seems to work pretty well. Just curious what the 7850K chaps think of it.


----------



## GreatChicken

Quote:


> Yes, just increase the multi to x22 to have 2200MHz and perhaps a slight voltage increase if it isn't fully stable.


The Gigabyte NB setting isn't by mult, it's by value, tho the value is +-100 each time. I tried to set it to 2200mhz, but I don't have any idea what voltage to give it - so far +0.075-+0.2v gives me a no boot (thank god for dual bios).


----------



## agrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> If my NB won't overclock past 2200MHz does it stand to reason that buying 2400MHz would be pointless because of the NBs lower speed? I'm curious because I plan on upgrading to faster RAM soon and I don't want to waste money on memory I can't use to its potential.
> 
> Also on another note what do you guys think of using the x264 v2 Stress Test as an OC stress testing utility? The Haswell chaps use it as their preferred test, I've been trying it for a couple of days and it seems to work pretty well. Just curious what the 7850K chaps think of it.


So if you use the iGPU the. Yes, go to 2400mhz, otherwise if your running 2133, then the cost isn't worth it.


----------



## DannyDK

I have now tried several times to get my rig to boot with nb set to 2200 and 2400 and it wont, not even bios will boot, my ram is 2400 and set to run at that speed so why cant i get it to boot?


----------



## wrtIAp

Could someone help me with my unstable system? I found out that it is not stable when I use 2400Mhz RAM speed (XMP Profile), even with BIOS settings everything on stock other than RAM. BIOS stock settings uses 1600Mhz RAM which is stable.
When I set my RAM to 2400Mhz, my CPU auto voltage goes from 1.325V-->1.45V, NB from 1.135V-->1.35V, but none of the frequency changes. Is this also normal? ASRock tech support told me that it needs higher voltages to support 2400Mhz RAM, but shouldn't it be frequencies that increase?
Anyway, I am not able to get it fully stable with 2400Mhz RAM even at stock BIOS or when I keep changing things. Could it be that I need to make use of the APU PCIE VDDP Voltage (currently 1.052V), or some other voltages?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> If my NB won't overclock past 2200MHz does it stand to reason that buying 2400MHz would be pointless because of the NBs lower speed? I'm curious because I plan on upgrading to faster RAM soon and I don't want to waste money on memory I can't use to its potential..


The NB is set up to handle "effective" memory speeds far in excess of its own actual clockspeed. DDR3-2400 is running at a much lower clock speed than 2400 mhz, and uses numerous tricks to send more data per clock than could old-school DDR or SDR RAM.

You will probably never be able to "outrun" the NB with system memory.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> The Gigabyte NB setting isn't by mult, it's by value, tho the value is +-100 each time. I tried to set it to 2200mhz, but I don't have any idea what voltage to give it - so far +0.075-+0.2v gives me a no boot (thank god for dual bios).


It is by multiplier, it's just that the UEFI obscures that fact. The default BCLK/APU Frequency is 100 mhz. Each time you specify an increase in NB speed of 100 mhz in your UEFI, you are increasing the multiplier by 1x (default multiplier is 18x for 1800 mhz). It is pretty rare, so far as I can tell, to find anyone with Kaveri running NB speeds past 2000 mhz/2 ghz, even for people with the Asus Pro board or what have you.


----------



## ElMenda

Hi for all from Spain









Many days I'm following this thread because of the problems I have with the damn multiplier to 28x100 is much to read and not get up with the solution, I have read on other sites that it is a problem of drivers and ATI ago they are trying to fix it, meaning through the AMD overdrive I managed to leave fixed the multiplier up but iGPU stays dead, 3D applications work slowed and inclusibe windows and animations windows pass extremely slow, hos ask for help because I see you're well advanced with the subject and in the Spanish forums nobody can tell me anything, is there any solution about it or I'll have to wait for the lords of a solution to den AMD drivers and let my team paperweight? the truth is frustrating.

PD:
Anyone can explain me to manage AMDmrstweaker?


----------



## wrtIAp

Ok my computer now seems to be stable with 2400MHz RAM after ASRock support sent me a new BIOS


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Ok my computer now seems to be stable with 2400MHz RAM after ASRock support sent me a new BIOS


that's good to hear! seems like software is one of the only things holding these things back


----------



## ElMenda

Now my clocks are fine , constant voltage and frequency but AOD shows me pciexf objective100/ now 0.0 and HT objective 500.00/ now 0.0....and in GPU state only shows me one gpu core on and all time at 100% uses.....what is this kind of ****?







((((

Please help


----------



## GreatChicken

If you're getting 28x100 in CPU in the first place, I think you are in the wrong thread... IIRC the Kaveris in the market right now throttle to 30x100 if the temps are too high... the default is 35x or 37x...

If you are talking about Kaveri CPU, but manually set the CPU mult to 28... you should tell me you're underclocking...

If your northbridge mult (that should be NB in the bios display) is 28x... how the heck did you get there, dial it back. This thread seems to agree that anything over 20x in NB mult is not only rare, but doesn't actually do much unless your RAM is fast.

Otherwise, I'm afraid I can't understand you anymore than this... the numbers you give indeed do not make sense, unless I'm misinterpreting something...

No issues with IGPU on my end, its currently running at 900mhz, 720 default, using 14.4 catalyst. The only issue I have right now is AMD Overdrive BSOD whenever I try to run it.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> If you're getting 28x100 in CPU in the first place, I think you are in the wrong thread... IIRC the Kaveris in the market right now throttle to 30x100 if the temps are too high... the default is 35x or 37x...
> 
> If you are talking about Kaveri CPU, but manually set the CPU mult to 28... you should tell me you're underclocking...
> 
> If your northbridge mult (that should be NB in the bios display) is 28x... how the heck did you get there, dial it back. This thread seems to agree that anything over 20x in NB mult is not only rare, but doesn't actually do much unless your RAM is fast.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm afraid I can't understand you anymore than this... the numbers you give indeed do not make sense, unless I'm misinterpreting something...
> 
> No issues with IGPU on my end, its currently running at 900mhz, 720 default, using 14.4 catalyst. The only issue I have right now is AMD Overdrive BSOD whenever I try to run it.


As far as I know the CPU does not throttle to x30 under temp. but when iGPU is on load, which can be easily fixed by editing p-states.
And I thought he might of been talking about NB freq too, but hell we should be the ones asking for his advice if that were the case lol.


----------



## ElMenda

thanks for your answers, I will explain better ..

My setup works perfectly stable for hours with prime95 and temperatures contained, this is the config I'm using:

A10-7700k
Multi 44x100
Vcore 1.4v
NB 20x100
Nb 1.3v
CL11 1.5v Dram freq 2133
GPU freq 1020
Turbo core disabled
Spread Spec Disabled
All energetic savings disabled.

Just installed 14.4 catalyst performance is impeccable, over 4 hours playing battlefield 4 and other titles,
the problem is to restart the computer, automatically lower multiplier to 28x and the computer runs relentless, now after this the only posible mode to put multi up is going to device manager and disabling the screen adapter , just now the multi is at 44x and the system runs fine, after this enables screen adapter and I can play without problems , after restart need to other time this trick if I need to play.
I edited al P-states to [email protected] from P0 to P7 but this dont do anithing aparenttly , If I dont disable and enable the screen adapter multi stays at [email protected]

I hope ye now better understood, so I think it's a problem with the display driver and not with my current settings.

A greeting

PD: Im not having any troubles with AOD...for me runs fine.


----------



## drmrlordx

Just an FYI, but the 7700K does throttle to 28x/2800 mhz in the P6 power state as opposed to 3000 mhz for the 7850K.


----------



## ElMenda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Just an FYI, but the 7700K does throttle to 28x/2800 mhz in the P6 power state as opposed to 3000 mhz for the 7850K.


Exactly....

Well I'll be back with good news and new ......

because i was reading that the mosfets are pretty heated and never thinking this would be a solution if there is a safety measure to try and get the maximum performance that allows me the mobo decided to place a single GPU heatsinks on the mosfets motherboard (MSI-A88XM-E45), after that the computer lit and never to go back to the fall of multiplier or iGPU to give back to a single problem, call me crazy but so what happened to ... .

config:

NBF 2000 1.3v
CPUF 4,400 1.39v
iGPU 1,100
Dramf 1333cl9 1.5v / 1.5v 2133cl11 Oc (amazing)

Now I'm looking for a good heatsink for the mosfets because individual GPU are quite small, but this rather complicated, know any web where they can buy, here I can only buy the Thermalright HR-02 S, it is a good heatsink but the measure holes very little mismatch by: ((((

Greetings to all.


----------



## imreloadin

Hey guys I just picked up an A10-7850K from newegg (was one of their shellshockers today @ $149.99) and was wondering what you guys thought was the best mini ITX MoBo for overclocking? I know it's mainly up to the silicon lottery the extent you'll be able to oc it but I'm curious which board is best suited for it?


----------



## GreatChicken

Not really sure about this; you'd probably want an A88 board, but there's only 3 I know of within reach. The MSI A88XI-AC is new, tho it is the only one with Wireless AC builtin... the Gigabyte F2A88XN-Wifi is a popular choice... and the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ was the only one for quite awhile (and used in tests). There's only 3 so far as I know, pick one?

(Be careful of the Gigabyte if rev < 3.0 and Asrock boards, I think they need a bios update before you can slot a Kaveri proc in... when in doubt get the shop to do it for you...)

(Also, 7850 is supposedly also compatible with the A55 chipset BUT not all manufacturers release update for Kaveri on A55, so better not. Besides, The A55 chipsets don't have USB3.0 ports, so there is a benefit to sticking to A88...)
Quote:


> because i was reading that the mosfets are pretty heated and never thinking this would be a solution if there is a safety measure to try and get the maximum performance that allows me the mobo decided to place a single GPU heatsinks on the mosfets motherboard (MSI-A88XM-E45), after that the computer lit and never to go back to the fall of multiplier or iGPU to give back to a single problem, call me crazy but so what happened to ... .


Urh, you're not the first with crazy temp readings. While I didn't get throttled I did get stupid high stuff from CPU Package (not actually, the diode seems to be either missing or misplaced), and that changed when I changed my CPU fan. The A88 chipset seems to need airflow/cooling over their mosfets more than other chipsets do.


----------



## Timx2

Hello,

I recently build my a10 7850k + FM2A88-itx (ht)pc. I am looking for a decent overclocking guide for the 7850k (preferably with an Asrock mb). I have some experience with Intel overclocking but I am new with AMD. Google isn't helping much. Anyone got an idea?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timx2*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I recently build my a10 7850k + FM2A88-itx (ht)pc. I am looking for a decent overclocking guide for the 7850k (preferably with an Asrock mb). I have some experience with Intel overclocking but I am new with AMD. Google isn't helping much. Anyone got an idea?


You'll want to have a gander at this, if you haven't already: Kaveri Overclock Guide


----------



## nadro

Hello,

I have A10 7850K, MSI A88XM GAMING and Patriot Viper III 2133 RAM. I have problems with this config and memory set to 2133MHz (BSOD at startup). When I set RAM voltage to 1.6 Windows 8.1 x64 boot-up without problems, however programs like a Notepad++, Explorer are unstable (freeze + crashes) and Memtest86 shows 8 errors. I tried also 1.65V for RAM, but it's cause 128+ errors just after 30 minutes in Memtest86, thats why I think that this voltage is too high for this RAM. I use AMP profile for my memory, but I tried also set timings manually. Results is always the same - unstable Windows 8.1 - most of the time I can't even install/uninstall drivers for Realtek, AMD etc (installation failed). I tried even beta BIOS from MSI, but it doesn't solved my problems too. If you have some suggestions how to setup my mobo to works with 2133 RAM I'll be glad.

Cheers,


----------



## Timx2

Thanks! I'll look into it.


----------



## ElMenda

put the stock volt of the memory and try to raise up nbv....for 2133 I have 1.31v


----------



## wrtIAp

On my ASRock board, the NBvoltage is set to 1.4V when I use 2400MHz RAM, I have no idea if this is safe, but lower voltages do seem to lead to crashes in windows.
However, my memtest never fails even if I lower the nb voltage by a lot, so this case may be different to yours. It could mean that your memory is the problem here if memtest seems to fail?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> On my ASRock board, the NBvoltage is set to 1.4V when I use 2400MHz RAM, I have no idea if this is safe, but lower voltages do seem to lead to crashes in windows.
> However, my memtest never fails even if I lower the nb voltage by a lot, so this case may be different to yours. It could mean that your memory is the problem here if memtest seems to fail?


Did you force multi-core in memrest? I always got stable results when it was using a single core but using multi-core picked up on the instability.


----------



## nadro

I used 1 core in memtest. Yesterday I run test with Kingston 2x4GB 2400MHz (KHX24C11T2K2/8X) modules (I loaded XMP profile for 24000 freq) and all test passed without errors. It looks like my Patriots memory is damage. I contacted with Patriot support and I get info to use 1.7-1.75 voltage for this memory on AMD platforms, but it looks really high IMHO. Today I'll do clean install of Windows 8.1 with Kingstom memory installed and I'll check how it works and thanks for a tips with NBvoltage, it may be useful.

BTW. Ubuntu 14.04 x64 works without any problems.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Did you force multi-core in memrest? I always got stable results when it was using a single core but using multi-core picked up on the instability.


Will try that later, thanks!


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nadro*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have A10 7850K, MSI A88XM GAMING and Patriot Viper III 2133 RAM. I have problems with this config and memory set to 2133MHz (BSOD at startup). When I set RAM voltage to 1.6 Windows 8.1 x64 boot-up without problems, however programs like a Notepad++, Explorer are unstable (freeze + crashes) and Memtest86 shows 8 errors. I tried also 1.65V for RAM, but it's cause 128+ errors just after 30 minutes in Memtest86, thats why I think that this voltage is too high for this RAM. I use AMP profile for my memory, but I tried also set timings manually. Results is always the same - unstable Windows 8.1 - most of the time I can't even install/uninstall drivers for Realtek, AMD etc (installation failed). I tried even beta BIOS from MSI, but it doesn't solved my problems too. If you have some suggestions how to setup my mobo to works with 2133 RAM I'll be glad.
> 
> Cheers,


I have the exact same RAM and it has refused to run at the advertised timings in any of my AMD rigs, even after I got a second set mailed to me from Patriot. If you want stability at the advertised 1.5v and 2133 speed, you need to drop tRCD timing from 11 to 12. The others can stay.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I have the exact same RAM and it has refused to run at the advertised timings in any of my AMD rigs, even after I got a second set mailed to me from Patriot. If you want stability at the advertised 1.5v and 2133 speed, you need to drop tRCD timing from 11 to 12. The others can stay.


IT's obvious your memory is bad. It also was a poor choice of a mothernoard. MSI is nowfere as good 7nnquality as Asus 88X Pro or Gigabyte.


----------



## Centauri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> IT's obvious your memory is bad. It also was a poor choice of a mothernoard. MSI is nowfere as good 7nnquality as Asus 88X Pro or Gigabyte.


Oh my god, you again. Haha. And your reading comprehension still hasn't improved.


----------



## nadro

Thanks for this info, I'll check it tomorrow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I have the exact same RAM and it has refused to run at the advertised timings in any of my AMD rigs, even after I got a second set mailed to me from Patriot. If you want stability at the advertised 1.5v and 2133 speed, you need to drop tRCD timing from 11 to 12. The others can stay.


Thanks for this info, I'll check it tomorrow.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nadro*
> 
> I used 1 core in memtest. Yesterday I run test with Kingston 2x4GB 2400MHz (KHX24C11T2K2/8X) modules (I loaded XMP profile for 24000 freq) and all test passed without errors. It looks like my Patriots memory is damage. I contacted with Patriot support and I get info to use 1.7-1.75 voltage for this memory on AMD platforms, but it looks really high IMHO. Today I'll do clean install of Windows 8.1 with Kingstom memory installed and I'll check how it works and thanks for a tips with NBvoltage, it may be useful.
> 
> BTW. Ubuntu 14.04 x64 works without any problems.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nadro*
> 
> Thanks for this info, I'll check it tomorrow.
> Thanks for this info, I'll check it tomorrow.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nadro*
> 
> I used 1 core in memtest. Yesterday I run test with Kingston 2x4GB 2400MHz (KHX24C11T2K2/8X) modules (I loaded XMP profile for 24000 freq) and all test passed without errors. It looks like my Patriots memory is damage. I contacted with Patriot support and I get info to use 1.7-1.75 voltage for this memory on AMD platforms, but it looks really high IMHO. Today I'll do clean install of Windows 8.1 with Kingstom memory installed and I'll check how it works and thanks for a tips with NBvoltage, it may be useful.
> 
> BTW. Ubuntu 14.04 x64 works without any problems.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> Oh my god, you again. Haha. And your reading comprehension still hasn't improved.


I make a dozen posts evey day on different forums mostly in an accurate manner. This was done late night on my tablet, probably without my reading glasses. Just had cataract surgery a month ago. There really is no need for your insulting and condescending manner. An apology is in order or I will go to the moderator.


----------



## genekellyjr

Here's what I found out about this APU (and my mobo/RAM), I read a lot of the forum and it didn't answer how to prevent the APU from downclocking to 3 GHz during iGPU load.
My notes answer:

Mobo - F2A88XN-WIFI
BIOS F4c

CPU A10-7850K
3.7 GHz, 1.2312 V set in AMD OverDrive. BIOS only seems to want to set the Turbo voltage. Undervolt for small case.
Cool n' Quiet on, as are all other features like C6
Turbo Core off in AMD OverDrive on Startup - This prevents throttling to 3 GHz when iGPU is under load. Who knows why.
CPU Load Line Calibration set to Medium
28 C CPU idle. VRM cools down very slowly.
40 C CPU - 44 C VRM for CPU constant load. Stock FX CPU cooler (WAY nicer than the stock APU cooler. CPU's cost the same though...).

NB
stock voltage of 1.2125 V
NB Load Line Calibration set to Medium

HyperTransport
2 GHz

iGPU
1 GHz in BIOS, not AMD OverDrive
When set in BIOS it can utilize the P1 state of 320 MHz.
Had issues with BIOS 3b that did not set GPU speeds from BIOS, only AMD Overdrive.
Forced 2GB buffer, without forcing a buffer Bioshock Infinite had some major texture issues from not claiming enough RAM.
38 C CPU - 50 C VRM for iGPU constant load. VRM gets cooked, and stays hot for a while after.

Note: Can hear when iGPU is active. Super silent case, so moving a window all over the screen makes it hum when the window moves.
Only noticed with case open during testing.

RAM - F3-2133C9D-8GAB (G.Skill 2x4GB 2133 MHz with 9-11-10-28, 1.65 V orignal timings)
2400 MHz
10-12-12-31, 1.72 V
Tigher timings unstable. The other timings are based off of the RAM's 2133 MHz XMP profile.
More voltage did not induce better stability.

Notes:
iGPU tested with Unigine Heaven. Got best scores with 3.7 GHz + 1 GHz.
HyperTransport did not seem to matter. 2133 MHz vs 2400 MHz RAM did not seem to matter (timings too lax for the increase?).
3.8 GHz was slower than 3.7 GHz for Heaven benchmark.
3.6 GHz was slower than 3.7 GHz for Heaven benchmark. May be specific to benchmark.

iGPU would not go over 1026 MHz. It just wouldn't. With so many other people getting same results, it must be related to something other than quality of silicon.

I assume that the "System Temp" shown in EasyTune6 (by Gigabyte for their mobo) is the VRM with the heatsink.
Additionally, EasyTune6 seems to be the only program that cans show temperatures. AMD OverDrive seems to be accurate with its "Thermal headroom" but that is not immediately clear what the temps are.
The BIOS also always says the APU is at some ungodly temperature of 50-60 C. I don't trust it, as the fan would be at max according to the scalings.

Power usage - A 300W tiny power supply, do not know vendor. Not rated for anything like Bronze or Silver.
1.5 W off
40 W idle
90 W CPU full load
130 W iGPU load (game, specifically Bioshock Infinte Benchmark or Unigine Heaven)
-Using Cool n' Quiet so it clocks down, 3.7 GHz max, no boost, and 1 GHz iGPU.

Other stable CPU speeds / Voltage found:

3.6 - 1.2188 V constant load: 38 C CPU - 44 C VRM

3.7 - 1.2312 V constant load: 40 C CPU - 44 C VRM

3.9 - 1.2625 V constant load: 43 C CPU - 44 C VRM (This is stock APU voltage)

4.0 - 1.2688 V constant load: 46 C CPU - 44 C VRM


----------



## wrtIAp

Could someone help me out here, I seem to have problems with my RAM, most likely anyway.
The system seems fine when running prime95 small FFTs test (no RAM usage) + MSI kombustor. However when using prime95 Blend test (tests RAM) instead, programs always end up crashing within 1 hour. In games as well, some games will close/crash every once in a while.
I have tried putting my NB voltage up to 1.4V + 1/2LLC and this still occurs, could it be possible I need to edit APU pcie VDDP voltage, or RAM voltage?
mobo: ASRock FM2A88X extreme4+ BIOS v2.24
CPU: A10-7850k
RAM: G-Skill TridentX 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31 1.65V


----------



## nadro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Centauri*
> 
> I have the exact same RAM and it has refused to run at the advertised timings in any of my AMD rigs, even after I got a second set mailed to me from Patriot. If you want stability at the advertised 1.5v and 2133 speed, you need to drop tRCD timing from 11 to 12. The others can stay.


Can you post all your timings? It looks like BIOS for my mobo is really bugged. When I just select XMP/AMP profile PC boot-up, but it's unstable in Windows, when I try to set manually some timings and other set to AUTO PC doesn't even run, thats why I have to set all timings manually.


----------



## cruisin3style

Loving this APU! Did sort of a trial run with an a6-5400k motherboard bundle at microcenter maybe a year or more ago, mostly because it was only $60 and i was curious what AMD managed to do with their ATI acquisition. 720p at medium-high settings impressed the hell out of me for integrated graphics. But it didn't age well, and the motherboard only supported ddr3-1333 sadly. Thought about getting a discrete video card for it but people seemed to think it wasn't really going to be worth it because the a6 would be a big bottleneck.

Picked up a microcenter 7850k bundle, and with ddr3-2133 ram this thing flies. Maybe a little less potent than the performance of my dual core intel core 2 duo + GTX 260 powered gaming rig back in it's 2009 day, but for like half the cost (and half the electricity usage and heat)

On another note that actually relates to this thread, i'm only interested in overclocking the GPU, and only a little bit, but turns out the bios option doesn't work. It has the option, and I can set it to the Mhz I want, but in windows gpu-z says 720 still. So i have to overclock it using AMD Overdrive lol

Just like to finish by saying I see a lot of people online say AMD APUs are cool for what they are, but are only for "light" gaming. They have no idea what they are talking about


----------



## drmrlordx

With respect to your iGPU issue: is that a Gigabyte board? Some/all of the Gigabyte boards have iGPU clockspeed limitation issues. I think there's an update out there for at least some of the boards that can get you to 960 mhz iGPU speeds.


----------



## Gomi

My 3Dmark score ( Cloud Gate ) when running Hybrid crossfire with a R7 250:

11726

http://www.3dmark.com/cg/1779895

More than pleased with the results for such a lowbudget CPU and dGPU.

7850K @ 4.7Ghz (Vcore - 1.55)
Memore @ 2400Mhz CL9
NB @ 2400Mhz (NB voltage - 1.50)

IGPU and dGPU overclocked to 1100Mhz on the core and 1200Mhz on memory.

These settings are also BF4 stable.


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gomi*
> 
> My 3Dmark score ( Cloud Gate ) when running Hybrid crossfire with a R7 250:
> 
> 11726
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/cg/1779895
> 
> More than pleased with the results for such a lowbudget CPU and dGPU.
> 
> 7850K @ 4.7Ghz (Vcore - 1.55)
> Memore @ 2400Mhz CL9
> NB @ 2400Mhz (NB voltage - 1.50)
> 
> IGPU and dGPU overclocked to 1100Mhz on the core and 1200Mhz on memory.
> 
> These settings are also BF4 stable.


Those overclocks are awesome for a Kaveri chip. I assume you don't get the dreaded throttling? Can you run 3dmark11 Performance with those settings? I'm curious as to how it scores. Thanks!


----------



## Gomi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farmer Boe*
> 
> Those overclocks are awesome for a Kaveri chip. I assume you don't get the dreaded throttling? Can you run 3dmark11 Performance with those settings? I'm curious as to how it scores. Thanks!


Will run the requested benchmark next week, I accidently tore out a USB slot (Or the black divider plastic piece inside the slot) and I get a BSOD every now and then, so decided to dismantle the build and ordered a new motherboard.

No throttling, I used AmdMsrTweaker to change the P5 state, which is what Kaveri jumps too when it gets loaded on both CPU and iGPU.


----------



## Themisseble

Anyone knows when will ATHLOn x4 steamroller come out?

Just looking at benchmarks and steamroller at 5.0Ghz almost hit 5.0 CB ... also it is around 13% faster than piledriver that means about 20% than bulldozer... So my friend is about to buy athlon x4 but he also want to know what is it worth to wait for steamroller athlons?


----------



## cruisin3style

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> With respect to your iGPU issue: is that a Gigabyte board? Some/all of the Gigabyte boards have iGPU clockspeed limitation issues. I think there's an update out there for at least some of the boards that can get you to 960 mhz iGPU speeds.


I'm a big fan of Gigabyte but it's a ASRock. I think the bios is the second to newest revision so hopefully updating will fix the issue. Thanks for the help though


----------



## yawa

Well I've been running Asrock's Extreme 6+ since day one, so I can vouch for it being a semi decent board to a point.

Sadly though my extreme Over clocks are severely limited by the boards inadequate VRM and socket cooling, so I still feel as if my chip has untapped potential on the 24/7 Overclocking side of things.

Considering in my previous thread, my benchmark scores in just about everything were largely the same between 4.5Ghz and 4.7 GHz, it's a pretty big wall to hit.


----------



## Falcon-X

Lots of good info on Kaveri here. Picking up bits and pieces, I've been able to run a modest 24x7 overclock that's been rock solid so far. 3000 score on 3Dmark (pretty good for just an APU). Will play more as I have time, and see what the stable top end is.

System
O.S.: Win7x64
CPU: A10-7850k
RAM: G.Skill 2x8GB F3-2400
MB: MSI A88XM Gaming
HDD: 2x128GB Sandisk on AMD-Raid
CPU Cooler: H100i

Settings:
CPU = 40 x 100
CPU V = +.04

iGPU = 960mhz

NB = 21 x 100
NB V = +.07

DDR = 2133
DDR V = 1.54
CAS = 10/11/11/31

A10.png 74k .png file


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cruisin3style*
> 
> I'm a big fan of Gigabyte but it's a ASRock. I think the bios is the second to newest revision so hopefully updating will fix the issue. Thanks for the help though


Woops, oh well. And here I was thinking I knew what was going on, alas. Yeah, sounds like something a board update could fix.


----------



## cruisin3style

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Woops, oh well. And here I was thinking I knew what was going on, alas. Yeah, sounds like something a board update could fix.


lol hey don't be hard on yourself. i like that you used the word alas, don't see that one much. That's why i love the internet.

also was recently accused of "bozokery", i think meaning committing bozo like acts, on risk for android (also known as border siege) haha

anyway, back on topic i did not reformat or reinstall windows at first and just ran off the install from the A6 setup i had before and that seemed to work pretty good, but when i finally got around to reformatting and reinstalling everything the system started hanging and crashing all the time.

so i returned the mobo +cpu and got fresh ones. i could swear the faulty one used 20-30 watts less power at load but what can you do. power consumption according to kill-a-watt is around 40-45 idle, 125ish in games, 140-150 prime. before i could swear it was ~90-100 in games and 125 in prime. i did add one very very old 80mm fan and another 80mm that is usb powered that i ripped from a netbook lap cooler i had, ghetto style, but shouldn't be much increase i wouldn't think


----------



## cruisin3style

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Well I've been running Asrock's Extreme 6+ since day one, so I can vouch for it being a semi decent board to a point.
> 
> Sadly though my extreme Over clocks are severely limited by the boards inadequate VRM and socket cooling, so I still feel as if my chip has untapped potential on the 24/7 Overclocking side of things.
> 
> Considering in my previous thread, my benchmark scores in just about everything were largely the same between 4.5Ghz and 4.7 GHz, it's a pretty big wall to hit.


this is my first ASRock, glad to hear their boards are ok, thanks for the info. I've heard of the VRMs getting too hot in a review, maybe anandtech?, they said they got hot even at stock speeds. i have an interesting setup in a cooler master elite 360 case where i basically have one 120mm fan blowing onto the ram/cpu sideways, and then another 120mm exhausting air up out of the case, all within inches of each other. it worked insanely well with the A6-5400k i had before, but the 7850k is 95W and has these VRM heat issues.

here is a pic of my case and sort of how my airflow works. the yellow circle is more or less where the CPU sits :



do you think it would be better to have the top fan blowing downward onto the CPU and VRMs, and the side fan exhausting?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cruisin3style*
> 
> lol hey don't be hard on yourself. i like that you used the word alas, don't see that one much. That's why i love the internet.
> 
> also was recently accused of "bozokery", i think meaning committing bozo like acts, on risk for android (also known as border siege) haha


Fie! Yon blackguard doth upbraid thee foolishly. Chicanerous rapscallion!

(bozokery is probably a parody of "forsoothery" or "gadzookery")

Quote:


> anyway, back on topic i did not reformat or reinstall windows at first and just ran off the install from the A6 setup i had before and that seemed to work pretty good, but when i finally got around to reformatting and reinstalling everything the system started hanging and crashing all the time.
> 
> so i returned the mobo +cpu and got fresh ones. i could swear the faulty one used 20-30 watts less power at load but what can you do. power consumption according to kill-a-watt is around 40-45 idle, 125ish in games, 140-150 prime. before i could swear it was ~90-100 in games and 125 in prime. i did add one very very old 80mm fan and another 80mm that is usb powered that i ripped from a netbook lap cooler i had, ghetto style, but shouldn't be much increase i wouldn't think


You'd be surprised, I looked up some 40mm fans for 1U rackmount servers recently, and they had a power draw of over 10W per fan. Of course, they had pretty good static pressure and moved about 25 cfm by specification, so they weren't slouches in the 40mm department, but still . . .


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cruisin3style*
> 
> this is my first ASRock, glad to hear their boards are ok, thanks for the info. I've heard of the VRMs getting too hot in a review, maybe anandtech?, they said they got hot even at stock speeds. i have an interesting setup in a cooler master elite 360 case where i basically have one 120mm fan blowing onto the ram/cpu sideways, and then another 120mm exhausting air up out of the case, all within inches of each other. it worked insanely well with the A6-5400k i had before, but the 7850k is 95W and has these VRM heat issues.
> 
> here is a pic of my case and sort of how my airflow works. the yellow circle is more or less where the CPU sits :
> 
> 
> 
> do you think it would be better to have the top fan blowing downward onto the CPU and VRMs, and the side fan exhausting?


Yeah I've debated (and likely will go through with considering I have some spare radiator real estate) water blocking Everything on the Motherboard to bypass the crappy VRM cooling and to see if it stops the throttling. I've noticed in nearly every benchmark with this chip, whether the owner gets the chip to 4.5Ghz or 4.8Ghz, the benchmark scores stay the same. That proves to me all these FM2+ boards have a throttling problem.

I'd like to see how Kaveri does at 4.8+Ghz (True 4.8, not throttled) compared to Piledriver. At least single core. Since no one else has taken the plunge to actively remove the throttling VRM problem, well, I may as well be the guy to do it as I'll be on FM2+ through Excavator till AMD's new architecture drops.

So at some point this summer, I'll get the board properly cooled and try to bring her to 4.8+GHz to see what the improvements on this chip really did.

P.S. For those that don't know what I'm referencing, back when I was posting Kaveri Benches, some reviewer got coverage for getting his chip to the 4.7-4.8Ghz range and posting Cinebench scores of 112 Single threaded and 384 Multi-threaded.

I immediately stated there was no way that guy was actually at 4.7Ghz and that he must have been throttling, as I had just run Cinebench at 4.5Ghz and at 4.6Ghz and had gotten a single threaded score of 111 and multi-threaded score of 384 on both attempts.

Considering the gains for every 100Mhz oc'd had been fairly impressive up till that point, the only conclusion to be made based on the data was that nearly every Kaveri chip hits a huge thermal/throttling wall at 4.5Ghz. S o no matter what you manage to post at after that frequency, is actually being throttled back down to 4.5Ghz.

So, what I will attempt to do by waterblocking the VRM's is bypass that wall and make an attempt at a near Piledriver level Over clock to see if the IPC improvements are actually there at higher clocks.

If I'm successful, and manage to get to 4.9Ghz without throttling my prediction for Cinebench based on the previous scaling gains is 122+ single threaded and 410+ Multi-threaded.

So yeah, wish me luck.


----------



## agrims

Let us know what parts you used. Mine will be blocked eventually!


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> So, what I will attempt to do by waterblocking the VRM's is bypass that wall and make an attempt at a near Piledriver level Over clock to see if the IPC improvements are actually there at higher clocks.
> 
> If I'm successful, and manage to get to 4.9Ghz without throttling my prediction for Cinebench based on the previous scaling gains is 122+ single threaded and 410+ Multi-threaded.
> 
> So yeah, wish me luck.


Good luck! Question: How much power do you estimate your system is pulling at the wall at 4.5 ghz? And what do you think it would be without the 290x?


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Good luck! Question: How much power do you estimate your system is pulling at the wall at 4.5 ghz? And what do you think it would be without the 290x?


I know this was directed @yawa but thought I'd jump in with an answer. I'm running an A10-7850K @ 4.5 on a MSI A88XM Gaming with 16GB of 2400 ram along with a MSI R7 250 OC edition in dual graphics. Per my Kill-A-Watt at idle it's pulling right around 66 watts.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyfire*
> 
> I know this was directed @yawa but thought I'd jump in with an answer. I'm running an A10-7850K @ 4.5 on a MSI A88XM Gaming with 16GB of 2400 ram along with a MSI R7 250 OC edition in dual graphics. Per my Kill-A-Watt at idle it's pulling right around 66 watts.


Hmm, interesting. Do you have any numbers running something like AIDA64 that can fully load your CPU, iGPU and video card?


----------



## DirtyD

Been following this thread for a while now since I picked up a 7850k, as with many iv been unlucky getting memory to run at 2400 (16gb corsair vengeance pro), so reading round everywhere, trying alsorts of timings, sometimes managed to get it to boot but instantly get program errors and eventually a bsod.

But today iv had a small breakthrough figured id sign up and share, not quite 2400 but a lot closer than 2133, I decided as a last ditch effort id try changing the core freq default being 100, iv found setting it to 96, and having memory set for 2400 it actually runs at 2304, and so far 3 games open and various other programs, not a single error.

Stock voltages, core multi 42 (4032mhz), fsb mullti stock 18 (1728mhz), gpu 864, memory timings 11,13,13,31,

Thing that makes me happy is that fsb/dram ratio gone from 32:3 down to 1:12.

Still gonna do some more tweeking see where the limits lie, and if theres any life after 2400.

When temperatures cool down a bit il overclock more, but this summer heat is a bit much for my single rad water cooler on delided 7850k.

Anyways, hope this info is useful to people.

edit: before I hit the sack last night decided to give another tweak and test quick, set freq to 98, gets memory to 2352, cpu to 4116, gpu to 882, also upped nb multi to 20 to give me 1960, all seems stable, later today be trying 99, and then maybe 102/104 see what happens, all I know for sure is the mem controller doesn't like 100x24.


----------



## DirtyD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyD*
> 
> Been following this thread for a while now since I picked up a 7850k, as with many iv been unlucky getting memory to run at 2400 (16gb corsair vengeance pro), so reading round everywhere, trying alsorts of timings, sometimes managed to get it to boot but instantly get program errors and eventually a bsod.
> 
> But today iv had a small breakthrough figured id sign up and share, not quite 2400 but a lot closer than 2133, I decided as a last ditch effort id try changing the core freq default being 100, iv found setting it to 96, and having memory set for 2400 it actually runs at 2304, and so far 3 games open and various other programs, not a single error.
> 
> Stock voltages, core multi 42 (4032mhz), fsb mullti stock 18 (1728mhz), gpu 864, memory timings 11,13,13,31,
> 
> Thing that makes me happy is that fsb/dram ratio gone from 32:3 down to 1:12.
> 
> Still gonna do some more tweeking see where the limits lie, and if theres any life after 2400.
> 
> When temperatures cool down a bit il overclock more, but this summer heat is a bit much for my single rad water cooler on delided 7850k.
> 
> Anyways, hope this info is useful to people.
> 
> edit: before I hit the sack last night decided to give another tweak and test quick, set freq to 98, gets memory to 2352, cpu to 4116, gpu to 882, also upped nb multi to 20 to give me 1960, all seems stable, later today be trying 99, and then maybe 102/104 see what happens, all I know for sure is the mem controller doesn't like 100x24.


Ok so 98 didn't work for me, eventually got it to crash, did wonder if fsb had summat to do with it, so put that back down but still got a bsod, so I put freq to 97 and now and that has been fine for a while now, mem speed 2328. Also did try running higher speeds like 102 and 104. unfortunately 102 was very unstable, and 104 just didn't want to post, had to reset bios, guess I got to the limit, could tweek further in the decimal range but doubt id gain much, at least its stable now and faster than before.


----------



## imreloadin

So I seem to have found something odd with my motherboard. I have an ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ motherboard and the bus speed on this thing seems really.......jumpy. I have it set to 100 which is the default but in CPU-Z it jumps anywhere from 99.80 to 101.27 both on idle and under full load in P95. I can't put my finger on why it's doing it and it may just be something that these boards do for all I know. I have all of the power saving stuff disabled as usual so I know it isn't because of any of that. The multiplier stays stable but the bus speed changes about every 3 seconds to something in that range I described earlier. While doing my P95 runs I never get any errors or warnings so it's stable that way so I'm leaning towards it just being something that these boards do but I'd really appreciate anyone's input


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cruisin3style*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Woops, oh well. And here I was thinking I knew what was going on, alas. Yeah, sounds like something a board update could fix.
> 
> 
> 
> lol hey don't be hard on yourself. i like that you used the word alas, don't see that one much. That's why i love the internet.
> 
> also was recently accused of "bozokery", i think meaning committing bozo like acts, on risk for android (also known as border siege) haha
> 
> anyway, back on topic i did not reformat or reinstall windows at first and just ran off the install from the A6 setup i had before and that seemed to work pretty good, but when i finally got around to reformatting and reinstalling everything the system started hanging and crashing all the time.
> 
> so i returned the mobo +cpu and got fresh ones. i could swear the faulty one used 20-30 watts less power at load but what can you do. power consumption according to kill-a-watt is around 40-45 idle, 125ish in games, 140-150 prime. before i could swear it was ~90-100 in games and 125 in prime. i did add one very very old 80mm fan and another 80mm that is usb powered that i ripped from a netbook lap cooler i had, ghetto style, but shouldn't be much increase i wouldn't think
Click to expand...

I find quite the opposite with most acting in the role of a buffoonish facade while others are the most querimonious malcontents I have ever engaged in discourse.









(sorry, I could not resist)


----------



## DirtyD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> So I seem to have found something odd with my motherboard. I have an ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ motherboard and the bus speed on this thing seems really.......jumpy. I have it set to 100 which is the default but in CPU-Z it jumps anywhere from 99.80 to 101.27 both on idle and under full load in P95. I can't put my finger on why it's doing it and it may just be something that these boards do for all I know. I have all of the power saving stuff disabled as usual so I know it isn't because of any of that. The multiplier stays stable but the bus speed changes about every 3 seconds to something in that range I described earlier. While doing my P95 runs I never get any errors or warnings so it's stable that way so I'm leaning towards it just being something that these boards do but I'd really appreciate anyone's input


No matter what settings iv used iv always seen the core bus speed jump arround a lot, at the moment its set to 96, but it gets 96.5 most of time, and jumps between 95.79 - 97.26, just one of many stability issues with the chip I guess.


----------



## agrims

It's every chip now. Nothing stays the same, especially with electricity involved. My 750k jumps, my q8200 jumps, people with the 4670K see it jump. Before HWMonitor would show a steady baseline as it would read what the bios was set at. A year ago or so people started noticing that it started showing what we already knew... That the clock speeds fluctuate. And I applaud them for showing a real time reading finally.

Bottom line, it's not a fault with the chip.


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agrims*
> 
> It's every chip now. Nothing stays the same, especially with electricity involved. My 750k jumps, my q8200 jumps, people with the 4670K see it jump. Before HWMonitor would show a steady baseline as it would read what the bios was set at. A year ago or so people started noticing that it started showing what we already knew... That the clock speeds fluctuate. And I applaud them for showing a real time reading finally.
> 
> Bottom line, it's not a fault with the chip.


Thank you very much sir


----------



## dlee7283

recently did a gaming build for a friend

the 7700k is actually the first apu i ever bought and i was surprised at how well it performed in gaming.It feels like a traditional Radeon 5750 with lower clocks.


----------



## zeusz4u

HI all,

I'm new to this forum (and also new to overclocking) - so I apologize if I ask something stupid.

I've recently bought a new rig, and I'm looking into overclocking the iGPU part only.
Here is my configuration:

-ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ FM2+ ATX Motherboard
-AMD A10-7850K Kaveri APU
-USING STOCK AMD CPU COOLER for now
-G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2400, @1.65V with 10-12-12-31 timings.
-Crucial M500 120GB MLC Internal SSD
-No-name PSU for now

I was wondering if I can get the iGPU to 1020 MHz on the stock cooler. I don't plan to overclock any of the CPU part in the near future.
I have updated BIOS to the latest stable version. Also I was able to run the RAM at the advertised speeds without any changes to the timings or voltage.
The MB has a VRM cooler but I don't know how efficient it is. I mever did any overclocking in my life, this would be the first time.

I've read in this thread that increasing the NB voltage will let me increase the iGPU frequency and keep it stable under load.

2 questions I might have here:
- how much should I increase the NB voltage to make the GPU stable at 1020 MHz?
- do I also need to adjust the NB frequency? Right now it's set to 1800 MHz (default)

I have to mention I don't have fancy cooling in my case, and I'm still on the stock cooler. I plan to get a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO very soon.

Can I safely overclock only the GPU part on the stock cooler? I've seen some articles that people were able to reach this frequency on stock cooler without significant tempreture increase.
Do any of you have experience with this ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ board?

Another question, is it possible to tighten the timings on this Ripjaws memory @2400 MHz? I was thinking about trying CAS 9 instead of the official CAS 10 it's supposed to run at.

Thank you for your time answering my questions,
zeusz


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> HI all,
> 
> I'm new to this forum (and also new to overclocking) - so I apologize if I ask something stupid.
> 
> I've recently bought a new rig, and I'm looking into overclocking the iGPU part only.
> Here is my configuration:
> 
> -ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ FM2+ ATX Motherboard
> -AMD A10-7850K Kaveri APU
> -USING STOCK AMD CPU COOLER for now
> -G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2400, @1.65V with 10-12-12-31 timings.
> -Crucial M500 120GB MLC Internal SSD
> -No-name PSU for now
> 
> I was wondering if I can get the iGPU to 1020 MHz on the stock cooler. I don't plan to overclock any of the CPU part in the near future.
> I have updated BIOS to the latest stable version. Also I was able to run the RAM at the advertised speeds without any changes to the timings or voltage.
> The MB has a VRM cooler but I don't know how efficient it is. I mever did any overclocking in my life, this would be the first time.
> 
> I've read in this thread that increasing the NB voltage will let me increase the iGPU frequency and keep it stable under load.
> 
> 2 questions I might have here:
> - how much should I increase the NB voltage to make the GPU stable at 1020 MHz?
> - do I also need to adjust the NB frequency? Right now it's set to 1800 MHz (default)
> 
> I have to mention I don't have fancy cooling in my case, and I'm still on the stock cooler. I plan to get a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO very soon.
> 
> Can I safely overclock only the GPU part on the stock cooler? I've seen some articles that people were able to reach this frequency on stock cooler without significant tempreture increase.
> Do any of you have experience with this ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ board?
> 
> Another question, is it possible to tighten the timings on this Ripjaws memory @2400 MHz? I was thinking about trying CAS 9 instead of the official CAS 10 it's supposed to run at.
> 
> Thank you for your time answering my questions,
> zeusz


The Hyper 212 EVO is inadequate for overclocking.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> HI all,
> 
> I'm new to this forum (and also new to overclocking) - so I apologize if I ask something stupid.
> 
> I've recently bought a new rig, and I'm looking into overclocking the iGPU part only.
> Here is my configuration:
> 
> -ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ FM2+ ATX Motherboard
> -AMD A10-7850K Kaveri APU
> -USING STOCK AMD CPU COOLER for now
> -G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2400, @1.65V with 10-12-12-31 timings.
> -Crucial M500 120GB MLC Internal SSD
> -No-name PSU for now
> 
> I was wondering if I can get the iGPU to 1020 MHz on the stock cooler. I don't plan to overclock any of the CPU part in the near future.
> I have updated BIOS to the latest stable version. Also I was able to run the RAM at the advertised speeds without any changes to the timings or voltage.
> The MB has a VRM cooler but I don't know how efficient it is. I mever did any overclocking in my life, this would be the first time.
> 
> I've read in this thread that increasing the NB voltage will let me increase the iGPU frequency and keep it stable under load.
> 
> 2 questions I might have here:
> - how much should I increase the NB voltage to make the GPU stable at 1020 MHz?
> - do I also need to adjust the NB frequency? Right now it's set to 1800 MHz (default)
> 
> I have to mention I don't have fancy cooling in my case, and I'm still on the stock cooler. I plan to get a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO very soon.
> 
> Can I safely overclock only the GPU part on the stock cooler? I've seen some articles that people were able to reach this frequency on stock cooler without significant tempreture increase.
> Do any of you have experience with this ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ board?
> 
> Another question, is it possible to tighten the timings on this Ripjaws memory @2400 MHz? I was thinking about trying CAS 9 instead of the official CAS 10 it's supposed to run at.
> 
> Thank you for your time answering my questions,
> zeusz


I also have an ASROCK Extreme4+ with 7850k. You should note that the stock CPU voltage is very high when using 2400MHz RAM (1.45V I think). You might want to lower that first.
I have had quite a lot of trouble getting my system stable, but I wasn't sure whether it was due to the motherboard model or I was just unlucky. So let me know if you can't seem to get your system stable no matter what you do, and I'll see if my solution also applies to you.


----------



## zeusz4u

I know it's not the best CPU cooler out there, but it's still among the best air cooling fans for the buck (if I get it on sale for $30 it's value for money). And it's defnitely more effective than the stock AMD cooler, which so far doesn't seem to be very effective. If my temp readings are correct, my CPU temp is close to 70 degrees Celsius under load (tried a CPU burn test app for couple of minutes). This all happened without any kind of overclocking, just stock speeds with 2400 MHz RAM.

I think Hyper 212 EVO can still let me overclock the GPU wihotut significant temperature increase. If it's so than I'm happy with it. I want to play some games on this PC, that's why I need the GPU overclocked. I didn't want to buy a video card.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> I also have an ASROCK Extreme4+ with 7850k. You should note that the stock CPU voltage is very high when using 2400MHz RAM (1.45V I think). You might want to lower that first.
> I have had quite a lot of trouble getting my system stable, but I wasn't sure whether it was due to the motherboard model or I was just unlucky. So let me know if you can't seem to get your system stable no matter what you do, and I'll see if my solution also applies to you.


You are right, the core Voltage readings are close to 1.40-1.45 volts, not sure, I have to check the BIOS again.
Some people said they were able to overclock the GPU to 1020 MHz without any NB voltage increase. Is this really possible?

Can you please tell what should I start with, I never did any overclocking in my life. Also, what are the best tools to use? I'm having issues installing AMD Overdrive, I'm unable to fix that error, so probably I'll have to do a fresh windows install first, then get the Beta Catalyst driver + AMD Overdrive.

Do you adjust voltages and frequencies from the BIOS? Then test stability with a stress test tool (CPU/GPU burn test)?

I also get different temp readings in different tools. I don't know which one to trust most. Tried HWinfo and HWMonitor. Both show more than one CPU temps - there are several entries for A10-7850K. One is really high, over 100-110 Celsius, I guess that would be the socket temperature. I'm wondering whether these socket temperatures are safe? I don't want to burn my CPU or Motherboard.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> I know it's not the best CPU cooler out there, but it's still among the best air cooling fans for the buck (if I get it on sale for $30 it's value for money). And it's defnitely more effective than the stock AMD cooler, which so far doesn't seem to be very effective. If my temp readings are correct, my CPU temp is close to 70 degrees Celsius under load (tried a CPU burn test app for couple of minutes). This all happened without any kind of overclocking, just stock speeds with 2400 MHz RAM.
> 
> I think Hyper 212 EVO can still let me overclock the GPU with out significant temperature increase. If it's so than I'm happy with it. I want to play some games on this PC, that's why I need the GPU overclocked. I didn't want to buy a video card.


You think wrong. You said you want to overclock. You can NOT overclock with cheap coolers. If you insist on a fan cooler go for the Silver Arrow. If you have greater wisdom, you will go for a minimum of an H80i but better yet an H100i or better custom cooling. Otherwise do not complain when your results are miserable.


----------



## fball922

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You think wrong. You said you want to overclock. You can NOT overclock with cheap coolers. If you insist on a fan cooler go for the Silver Arrow. If you have greater wisdom, you will go for a minimum of an H80i but better yet an H100i or better custom cooling. Otherwise do not complain when your results are miserable.


Huh? It is a more than capable cooler. Where are you getting this information?

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=4

The 212 EVO is slightly (a degree or less) behind the H100. Not sure if that differs much from the H100i; I have overclocked my Phenom X6 to 4Ghz+ on the 212 Plus, and I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two.

Check your facts before you jump on someone seeking help.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> I know it's not the best CPU cooler out there, but it's still among the best air cooling fans for the buck (if I get it on sale for $30 it's value for money). And it's defnitely more effective than the stock AMD cooler, which so far doesn't seem to be very effective. If my temp readings are correct, my CPU temp is close to 70 degrees Celsius under load (tried a CPU burn test app for couple of minutes). This all happened without any kind of overclocking, just stock speeds with 2400 MHz RAM.
> 
> I think Hyper 212 EVO can still let me overclock the GPU wihotut significant temperature increase. If it's so than I'm happy with it. I want to play some games on this PC, that's why I need the GPU overclocked. I didn't want to buy a video card.


I would look at your thermal paste usage and make sure that heatsink is seated properly and tight. Maybe take it off, reapply thermal compound, then try again.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fball922*
> 
> Huh? It is a more than capable cooler. Where are you getting this information?
> 
> http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=4
> 
> The 212 EVO is slightly (a degree or less) behind the H100. Not sure if that differs much from the H100i; I have overclocked my Phenom X6 to 4Ghz+ on the 212 Plus, and I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two.
> 
> Check your facts before you jump on someone seeking help.
> I would look at your thermal paste usage and make sure that heatsink is seated properly and tight. Maybe take it off, reapply thermal compound, then try again.


Thanks, I've just ordered the Hyper 212 EVO. I hope to get it by monday. It was on sale on Amazon, $30.99. I think it's worth it.
I didn't apply any thermal compound when I mounted the stock cooler, it had some grey pads (I don't know whether it's thermal compound or some rubber). You can see here what I mean: http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201401/amd-a10-6800k-stock-cpu-cooler.jpg
It looks like also there is some distance between these dots/pads. When I touched em they didn't seem like thermal compound they wouldn't leave any marks on my finger (I've applied thermal compund several times in the past, and I know how it looks like and how it feels like, it will also stick onto your finger if you touch it, you have to wash your hands all the time after applying it).

I'll better wait for the new cooler before I start overclocking the GPU.

These guys over here are saying that "GPU ran just fine up to 1108MHz after I set 1.425V for the NB.": It seems a bit high to me, cause the base voltage is about 1.2V right now. I hope my bard will not blow up if I raise the voltage that much.
http://www.reviewstudio.net/1331-amd-kaveri-review-a10-7850k-general-performance/overclocking


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You think wrong. You said you want to overclock. You can NOT overclock with cheap coolers. If you insist on a fan cooler go for the Silver Arrow. If you have greater wisdom, you will go for a minimum of an H80i but better yet an H100i or better custom cooling. Otherwise do not complain when your results are miserable.


As I said, I only want the iGPU part to be overclocked from the stock 720 Mhz to about 1020 Mhz, which will greatly improve the grpahics performance (by almost 40%). That's why I bought DDR3-2400 memory. If I didn't want to overclock I could have sticked with the locked APU and some slower RAM maybe. I could have also bought a cheaper motherboard, with no VRM cooling at all.

As I said this will be my first overclock. I only want to make the system stable @1000+ Mhz iGPU (I'm not going to run it at like 5 GHz to produce a lot of heat). I might do a slight overclock to the CPU in the future, but I'm perfectly fine with the stock frequencies right now. This chip has a great potential in the iGPU part if overclocked and if paired with high speed OC memory.


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fball922*
> 
> Huh? It is a more than capable cooler. Where are you getting this information?
> 
> http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=4
> 
> The 212 EVO is slightly (a degree or less) behind the H100. Not sure if that differs much from the H100i; I have overclocked my Phenom X6 to 4Ghz+ on the 212 Plus, and I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two.
> 
> Check your facts before you jump on someone seeking help.
> I would look at your thermal paste usage and make sure that heatsink is seated properly and tight. Maybe take it off, reapply thermal compound, then try again.


Thank you for posting something to actually back your claims up versus what os2wiz was talking about. You don't NEED a water cooler to overclock lol, sure if you want to push your CPU as far as it'll go then you'll want one but it's sure as hell isn't necessary.

Just for the hell of it I found another comparison that has the Hyper 212 Evo in it which is listed below

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6

In short the Hyper 212 Evo will do just fine for you zeusz4u







water cooling is just something to think about later on once you get used to your chip and have played around a little with it


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fball922*
> 
> Huh? It is a more than capable cooler. Where are you getting this information?
> 
> http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=4
> 
> The 212 EVO is slightly (a degree or less) behind the H100. Not sure if that differs much from the H100i; I have overclocked my Phenom X6 to 4Ghz+ on the 212 Plus, and I don't know that there is a significant difference between the two.
> 
> Check your facts before you jump on someone seeking help.
> I would look at your thermal paste usage and make sure that heatsink is seated properly and tight. Maybe take it off, reapply thermal compound, then try again.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting something to actually back your claims up versus what os2wiz was talking about. You don't NEED a water cooler to overclock lol, sure if you want to push your CPU as far as it'll go then you'll want one but it's sure as hell isn't necessary.
> 
> Just for the hell of it I found another comparison that has the Hyper 212 Evo in it which is listed below
> 
> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6
> 
> In short the Hyper 212 Evo will do just fine for you zeusz4u
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> water cooling is just something to think about later on once you get used to your chip and have played around a little with it
Click to expand...

Hi Guys,

I don't

how far you wish to take your 7850, however if you are planning on pushing things there is a world of difference between the 212 and the H100/i /NH D14/or Silver Arrow types. I have owned all of the above and a lot more, benched them, and seen the results.

While I can appreciate the Hardware Secrets assessment of the evo, the article is 3-4 years old and extols the virtues of 'direct touch' heat pipes as revolutionary. Direct touch heat pipes are ancient news now and cooling products have been bested many times since then.

Lets just say don't hang your hat on the results/ benchmarks you offered. My advice is if you are planning on really pushing it, get something in the H100/i Noctua/Silver Arrow range.

and just to show you i put my money where my mouth is. I am paralleling you with a A10 7850K project as we speak. I plan on pushing my 7850K rather hard in the OC dept and owning a copy of the EVO 212,

It was not even in the running between the SA and the H100.





Anyway, a bit of advice you can do with what you like. Good luck with the project.

Hope that is of some use.


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Hi Guys,
> I don't
> how far you wish to take your 7850, however if you are planning on pushing things there is a world of difference between the 212 and the H100/i /NH D14/or Silver Arrow types. I have owned all of the above and a lot more, benched them, and seen the results.
> Lets just say don't hang your hat on the results/ benchmarks you offered. My advice is if you are planning on really pushing it, get something in the H100/i Noctua/Silver Arrow range.
> and just to show you i put my money where my mouth is. I am paralleling you with a A10 7850K project as we speak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, a bit of advice you can do with what you like. Good luck with the project.
> Hope that is of some use.


A bit of context will take you a long way, just a bit of my own advice for you









The person we were talking about the Hyper 212 Evo was zeusz4u. He is only planning on overclocking the gpu and not doing anything with the CPU so the 212 would most likely be sufficient for his needs. I also said that once he gets used to overclocking and wants to pursue it more then he'll want to go with water cooling so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make that hasn't already been made?

I too have had a range of coolers and currently have a Cooler Master Nepton 280L on my Athlon 750K that I've taken up to almost 5400MHz so I definitely know the benefits of water cooling lol.

That's a pretty nice looking setup you have there with that cooler by the way


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Hi Guys,
> I don't
> how far you wish to take your 7850, however if you are planning on pushing things there is a world of difference between the 212 and the H100/i /NH D14/or Silver Arrow types. I have owned all of the above and a lot more, benched them, and seen the results.
> Lets just say don't hang your hat on the results/ benchmarks you offered. My advice is if you are planning on really pushing it, get something in the H100/i Noctua/Silver Arrow range.
> and just to show you i put my money where my mouth is. I am paralleling you with a A10 7850K project as we speak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, a bit of advice you can do with what you like. Good luck with the project.
> Hope that is of some use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit of context will take you a long way, just a bit of my own advice for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The person we were talking about the Hyper 212 Evo was zeusz4u. He is only planning on overclocking the gpu and not doing anything with the CPU so the 212 would most likely be sufficient for his needs. I also said that once he gets used to overclocking and wants to pursue it more then he'll want to go with water cooling so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make that hasn't already been made?
> 
> I too have had a range of coolers and currently have a Cooler Master Nepton 280L on my Athlon 750K that I've taken up to almost 5400MHz so I definitely know the benefits of water cooling lol.
> 
> That's a pretty nice looking setup you have there with that cooler by the way
Click to expand...

A bit of context indeed. A large portion of the discussion was about the capability of the 212. having actual experience with all of the coolers mentioned, and a great many more, I saw a misconception about what the OP thought he may be getting in the way of cooling capacity with the 212.

It is the very reason i used *" I don't know how far you are taking your OC"* and *"Anyway, a bit of advice you can do with what you like"*

See I allowed for context and discernment myself.

Thanks BTW, it's One of the two builds for of the AMD High Performance Project

http://www.overclock.net/t/1473361/amd-high-performance-project-by-red1776

Good luck Guys


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> A bit of context will take you a long way, just a bit of my own advice for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The person we were talking about the Hyper 212 Evo was zeusz4u. He is only planning on overclocking the gpu and not doing anything with the CPU so the 212 would most likely be sufficient for his needs. I also said that once he gets used to overclocking and wants to pursue it more then he'll want to go with water cooling so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make that hasn't already been made?
> 
> I too have had a range of coolers and currently have a Cooler Master Nepton 280L on my Athlon 750K that I've taken up to almost 5400MHz so I definitely know the benefits of water cooling lol.
> 
> That's a pretty nice looking setup you have there with that cooler by the way


Overclocking the gpu cores in Kaveri by 30% , which is what he stated was his intent, will produce more heat than overclocking the cpu cores from 3.7 to 4.4 GHZ. . The EVO will be streyched beyond the upper limits of its play.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> As I said, I only want the iGPU part to be overclocked from the stock 720 Mhz to about 1020 Mhz, which will greatly improve the grpahics performance (by almost 40%). That's why I bought DDR3-2400 memory. If I didn't want to overclock I could have sticked with the locked APU and some slower RAM maybe. I could have also bought a cheaper motherboard, with no VRM cooling at all.
> 
> As I said this will be my first overclock. I only want to make the system stable @1000+ Mhz iGPU (I'm not going to run it at like 5 GHz to produce a lot of heat). I might do a slight overclock to the CPU in the future, but I'm perfectly fine with the stock frequencies right now. This chip has a great potential in the iGPU part if overclocked and if paired with high speed OC memory.


I understand what you are saying, but the graphics cores produce more heaat than the cpu cores and a 30% overclock of them requires beter cooling. By the way nobody is running Kaveri at 5 GHZ unless they are on LN2. The best Kaveri will get under water is about 4.7 GHZ..


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but the graphics cores produce more heaat than the cpu cores and a 30% overclock of them requires beter cooling. By the way nobody is running Kaveri at 5 GHZ unless they are on LN2. The best Kaveri will get under water is about 4.7 GHZ..


What about underclocking the CPU by 20%? It would give me enough room for the GPU to overclock, without producing too much heat, is that right? Do I have to reduce CPU core voltage for achieving this? Or simply set a lower clock speed from the BIOS? I still want the DDR-2400 RAM speed as it's needed for a casual gaming experience. I saw I can save several profiles in BIOS. I was thinking about setting up one for overclock GPU + underclocked CPU, and one for stock speeds. I could quickly swith to a profile when I wanna do some gaming, or switch to the other one when I need more CPU.


----------



## zeusz4u

I have just checked again, re-run FurMark CPU + GPU burn test simultaneusly, on stock cooler the temperatures would not exceed 63 Celsius. Used both the ASRock A-Tuning + HWInfo 64 tools, they both showed the same temperatures. However I noticed CPU throttling when reaching 60 degrees - the frequency would drop from 3.7 to 3.0 GHz. So indeed, the GPU adds some heat to the overall temperature of this chip. It's idling at 42 on stock speeds. I'll give an update when I install the Hyper 212 EVO. I want to run a few benchmarks to clearly see the tempreture difference between stock and aftermarket cooler.

How far can I go with this chip if I overclock the GPU? What is the upper temp threshold when Kaveri becomes unstable and the system crashes or the whole MB flames up?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> What about underclocking the CPU by 20%? It would give me enough room for the GPU to overclock, without producing too much heat, is that right? Do I have to reduce CPU core voltage for achieving this? Or simply set a lower clock speed from the BIOS? I still want the DDR-2400 RAM speed as it's needed for a casual gaming experience. I saw I can save several profiles in BIOS. I was thinking about setting up one for overclock GPU + underclocked CPU, and one for stock speeds. I could quickly swith to a profile when I wanna do some gaming, or switch to the other one when I need more CPU.


Yes that would work if that is the way you wish to go.


----------



## zeusz4u

Just an FYI.

As I was too impatient too wait for the CM 212 Evo, I overclocked the iGPU to 1028 MHz on the stock cooler by raising the NB voltage to 1.425. It doesn't get any hotter than 60 degrees Celsius. The CPU throttling comes in handy when the CPU gets hotter than 55, and it turns the multiplier down to 30x when it's getting any hotter than that. The average temperatures were 57-58 C while playing Crysis 1 at high settings in Full HD.
Also tried FurMark GPU burn + CPU burn test in parallel, with the throttling on I wasn't able to push the temperatures any higher than 65 C, this is the worst case scenario, but I won't ever have any application that uses 100% CPU + 100% GPU simultaneously, right?


----------



## drmrlordx

Probably not, unless it's some kind of HSA app that can peg all the cores/shaders simultaneously for extended periods of time. Or maybe a Mantle/DX12 title.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> I also have an ASROCK Extreme4+ with 7850k. You should note that the stock CPU voltage is very high when using 2400MHz RAM (1.45V I think). You might want to lower that first.
> I have had quite a lot of trouble getting my system stable, but I wasn't sure whether it was due to the motherboard model or I was just unlucky. So let me know if you can't seem to get your system stable no matter what you do, and I'll see if my solution also applies to you.


I was wondering what the target voltage is for this APU? Will lowering the CPU VCore also affect the iGPU, or is it NB only controlling the iGPU?
Right now, @3.7 GHz with CPU burn application running, my CPU voltage readings still remain below 1.4V, sometimes even more closer to 1.3V, don't know why it is set to 1.45 by default. Does lowering the CPU voltage have a direct effect on temperatures?

Do you have any tutorials/guides for overclocking the Kaveri on this AsRock board? I've searched google, but nothing useful. I can only find tutorials about AMD FX CPU's, but that won't help me much since APUs are different. I love this APU so far, I hope I can get some extra juice out of it by overclock. After all, that's why we buy the unlocked APUs...

I'm really beginner, any Kaveri APU overclocking tutorial is useful for me (preferably on AsRock boards). As far as I know the FM2A88X Extreme6+ holds the record for Kaveri overclocking at over 5GHz.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> I was wondering what the target voltage is for this APU? Will lowering the CPU VCore also affect the iGPU, or is it NB only controlling the iGPU?
> Right now, @3.7 GHz with CPU burn application running, my CPU voltage readings still remain below 1.4V, sometimes even more closer to 1.3V, don't know why it is set to 1.45 by default. Does lowering the CPU voltage have a direct effect on temperatures?
> 
> Do you have any tutorials/guides for overclocking the Kaveri on this AsRock board? I've searched google, but nothing useful. I can only find tutorials about AMD FX CPU's, but that won't help me much since APUs are different. I love this APU so far, I hope I can get some extra juice out of it by overclock. After all, that's why we buy the unlocked APUs...
> 
> I'm really beginner, any Kaveri APU overclocking tutorial is useful for me (preferably on AsRock boards). As far as I know the FM2A88X Extreme6+ holds the record for Kaveri overclocking at over 5GHz.


Yes there will be a quite significant decrease in temperature by lowering the Vcore. I have mine set at 1.31875V @4 Ghz, but the readings show about 1.25V on HWmonitor.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Yes there will be a quite significant decrease in temperature by lowering the Vcore. I have mine set at 1.31875V @4 Ghz, but the readings show about 1.25V on HWmonitor.


Will the DDR3 still work at 2400 MHz if I lower the voltage by that much? Or is it the memory controller included in the north bridge ? Also I was wondering how much I can increase the NB frequency. Default freq is 1800 MHz, but I was able to increase it to 2000 with a slight voltage increase in the NB (1.425V), also iGPU was set to 1086 MHz, again, no issues except the extra heat.
Also, will i be able to overclock the GPU like this - in other words does this affect the iGPU part too?

Also, is it possible to enable the Power Saving features after you get that stable overclock at 4 Ghz? I mean: AMD Cool'n'Quitet, C6 and the other stuff from BIOS, or is it going to cause more stability issues?


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> Will the DDR3 still work at 2400 MHz if I lower the voltage by that much? Or is it the memory controller included in the north bridge ? Also I was wondering how much I can increase the NB frequency. Default freq is 1800 MHz, but I was able to increase it to 2000 with a slight voltage increase in the NB (1.425V), also iGPU was set to 1086 MHz, again, no issues except the extra heat.
> Also, will i be able to overclock the GPU like this - in other words does this affect the iGPU part too?
> 
> Also, is it possible to enable the Power Saving features after you get that stable overclock at 4 Ghz? I mean: AMD Cool'n'Quitet, C6 and the other stuff from BIOS, or is it going to cause more stability issues?


Yes I believe the CPU Vcore can be reduced significantly without issues. However, my NB voltage is close to 1.4V with 1/2 LLC @2000MHz, and my APU PCIE VDDP VOLTAGE is at ~1.314V. ASROCK support told me that that is the voltage for the memory controller in the CPU, and I was very unstable without increasing it. I think NB is also related to Memroy + iGPU.
I have C6 and Cool'n'Quiet on, as the CPU gets really hot if CnQ is off. It works perfectly fine, and doesn't seem to affect any performance.
iGPU is at 900Mhz


----------



## smokesumkill

I found some interesting results. Everyone and their mom is complaining about how the CPU throttles to 30x when the GPU is under full load. Using MSRTWEAKER 1.1, you can change the P5 state (which is what it throttles to) and effectively keep both iGPU and CPU operating at maximum frequency. This does nothing for my 3DMARK skydiver results, and does nothing for me in in BF4 with mantle enabled.

Right now my stable overclock is [email protected] GPU=1050ghz [email protected]
Memory is G-Skill Sniper 2133 CAS11, overclocked to 2400mhz [email protected]

Skydiver score is 6729


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smokesumkill*
> 
> I found some interesting results. Everyone and their mom is complaining about how the CPU throttles to 30x when the GPU is under full load. Using MSRTWEAKER 1.1, you can change the P5 state (which is what it throttles to) and effectively keep both iGPU and CPU operating at maximum frequency. This does nothing for my 3DMARK skydiver results, and does nothing for me in in BF4 with mantle enabled.
> 
> Right now my stable overclock is [email protected] GPU=1050ghz [email protected]
> Memory is G-Skill Sniper 2133 CAS11, overclocked to 2400mhz [email protected]
> 
> Skydiver score is 6729


Possibly it does nothing because the memory bandwidth is bottlenecking the whole system. Maybe there are some applications which this will become useful in. But there is definitely no reduced performance by doing this right?


----------



## chaosdna

my PC specs are in my sig what do i need to do with the NB volts 2133mhz and 4.3ghz on CPU are stable i want 1024mhz igpu

please help me


----------



## chaosdna




----------



## Goldn3agle

Is there an award for the least overclockable APU? Because I think I have a contender.








My 7850K will not stabilise on any overclock over 4.3GHz at any sensible voltage (and I'm talking about 1.6V+), 4.3 takes 1.5V with no LLC so call it 1.58V before the system is stable.
Oddly the CPU is perfectly stable under load and I've had it stable up to 4.8GHz at much, much, lower voltage, the issue is that the CPU locks up when idle and requires me to manually cycle the power (usually by rebooting) to get the system operating again.

I've experimented with all the available settings such as Cool'n'Quiet, C6 State and the power offset options without much success.

Also I decided to do some experimenting, because I have nothing better to do until September, and whipped out the old vice and went to work getting the IHS off and lapping the top.
The delid and lapping brought the temperatures down but not substantially enough to allow me to increase the overclock on this rather poor overclocker.

Picture:


I'm going to do more testing but I'm pretty sure that 4.3 is as far as I'm going to be able to push this chip without burning a hole in the motherboard and electricity bill.








AMD might just as well lock it and sell my chip as a 7800 (non-K) for all it can do.


----------



## chaosdna

gold what can u get your IGP up too


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> gold what can u get your IGP up too


I've not been playing around with the iGPU, the only reason it's on is for HSA, my 7790's take care of all my graphical needs.
I've got it clocked at 900MHz at the minute though, to answer your question.
Can't see it going higher than that though, if the rest of the chip is any indication.


----------



## chaosdna

whats your settings for 900mhz


----------



## drmrlordx

Could you tell us more about the condition of the TIM used underneat the IHS, Goldn3agle? Were there any significant gaps? And did you lap the IHS and relid the CPU, or are you just running it bare die? Thanks!


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I've not been playing around with the iGPU, the only reason it's on is for HSA, my 7790's take care of all my graphical needs.
> I've got it clocked at 900MHz at the minute though, to answer your question.
> Can't see it going higher than that though, if the rest of the chip is any indication.


I was able to overclock it to 1086 MHz with a NB/GFX voltage of 1.425V. This was on stock cooler, but it quickly started throttling down the CPU multiplier to keep it cool as it has reached 60 degrees celsius in no time with both CPU and FurMark GPU burn apps running. This was on a ASRock FM2A88X-Extreme4+ motherboard. The stock voltage for the NB is 1.400V on this board. I've read that even with this stock voltage you can overclock the iGPU to like 840 MHz, or even higher.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Could you tell us more about the condition of the TIM used underneat the IHS, Goldn3agle? Were there any significant gaps? And did you lap the IHS and relid the CPU, or are you just running it bare die? Thanks!


There wasn't any gaps in the TIM that I could see, it had constant coverage on the die.

The TIM used seems like the same stuff used on the 5800K & the 6800K, it was a fairly dry compound so it came off in clumps, it didn't look much good to me.
I replaced the existing TIM with Arctic Silver 5 with the IHS on, because I've never been able to bare mount my H100i on either of my AMD APU's, which is a shame because I'd like to try it.

I think I have a screenshot of the old temps, I'll see if I can find it and compare it to the new temps for an accurate, more or less, reading.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> whats your settings for 900mhz


NB was at 1.4V with 60% LLC, that was only for the benefit of the NB clock though.


----------



## chaosdna

should i be ok with a TX3 with high grade TIM on the chip getting a 1ghz IGPU clock?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> There wasn't any gaps in the TIM that I could see, it had constant coverage on the die.
> 
> The TIM used seems like the same stuff used on the 5800K & the 6800K, it was a fairly dry compound so it came off in clumps, it didn't look much good to me.
> I replaced the existing TIM with Arctic Silver 5 with the IHS on, because I've never been able to bare mount my H100i on either of my AMD APU's, which is a shame because I'd like to try it.
> 
> I think I have a screenshot of the old temps, I'll see if I can find it and compare it to the new temps for an accurate, more or less, reading.
> NB was at 1.4V with 60% LLC, that was only for the benefit of the NB clock though.


Thanks for the feedback on the delid. You might want to be careful with AS5 pump-out effect, but it might not be an issue.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Is it worth delidding? I have an a10-7850k setup on the way, I do love to tinker and tweak.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Is it worth delidding? I have an a10-7850k setup on the way, I do love to tinker and tweak.


I'd say see what results you get with the IHS on and if you're confident give a delid a go, I'd do it just for the fun of it.








It's been hard to measure the difference in temps for me because my system has been acting very oddly, but I'd assume that delidding would improve temps especially with a naked mount.









On a side note I think my abysmal overclocking results are down to my motherboard, it's been behaving very oddly lately, because sometimes the motherboard won't POST and it's the inly reasonable explanation that would fit with the instability at idle, I'm going to try and get my paws on a new motherboard.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I'd say see what results you get with the IHS on and if you're confident give a delid a go, I'd do it just for the fun of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's been hard to measure the difference in temps for me because my system has been acting very oddly, but I'd assume that delidding would improve temps especially with a naked mount.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note I think my abysmal overclocking results are down to my motherboard, it's been behaving very oddly lately, because sometimes the motherboard won't POST and it's the inly reasonable explanation that would fit with the instability at idle, I'm going to try and get my paws on a new motherboard.


Thanks for the info, I think I am going to do it, is it possible to do a naked mount with out cracking the die or chip? What is your method for removing the excess black glue on the chip?
My msi a88x g45 will be here tomorrow. I have my chip and team group 2400mhz ram already, I will be using gelid extreme for my thermal paste.

I am excited to get this build going!


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Gold3n, did you delid with a razor or the vise and hit it with a block method? My guess you did the vise because you mentioned it. Was it as easy as the i7 delids?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Thanks for the info, I think I am going to do it, is it possible to do a naked mount with out cracking the die or chip? What is your method for removing the excess black glue on the chip?
> My msi a88x g45 will be here tomorrow. I have my chip and team group 2400mhz ram already, I will be using gelid extreme for my thermal paste.
> 
> I am excited to get this build going!


If you're going to be doing a custom liquid loop EK make a mounting system especially for delidded AMD APUs, I've tried bare mounting my H100i but the cold plate doesn't make full contact with the die because it uses the existing mounting bracket.
There's not much chance of cracking the die unless you're over tightening the cooler by a fair margin.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Gold3n, did you delid with a razor or the vise and hit it with a block method? My guess you did the vise because you mentioned it. Was it as easy as the i7 delids?


I used the vice method myself, I'm guessing that it's just as easy to delid the APUs as it is the i7s, you just have to watch the pins.
Although even if you do catch some of the pins you can just bend them back, carefully mind you, I did it with my 5800K and it worked fine afterwards.

Just keep your eye on the pins, otherwise it's as simple as Intel delidding.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Thank you , I am going to get a vise and try that method seems easier than the razor. I will be using a thermalright archon, I might try a direct die mount and see what happens.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Should I do the phoyba liquid metal or clu, clp?


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Well I bent some pins on delid, need a psu power cord to test, what would happen on start up if the cpu was dead?


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Well I bent some pins on delid, need a psu power cord to test, what would happen on start up if the clu was dead?


Well if you bent the pins it might not go into the motherboard. If you can bend them back without breaking any off you should be fine.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Well if you bent the pins it might not go into the motherboard. If you can bend them back without breaking any off you should be fine.


I managed to get them bent back and the chip into the motherboard, I am picking up a new power cord today, crossing fingers that it still works, not that my luck has been that good. I am assuming that I won't be able to do anything if I have a bad cpu, since it has video in the chip to.


----------



## zeusz4u

Hey everyone.
I've installed the Hyper 212 EVO. My load temps don't exceeed 54 C with the CPU clocked @ 4.0 GHz and GPU clocked @1020 MHz.
I was wondering what setting should I be using for LLC, right now it's automatic. i don't quite understand what LLC is.

Also I've noticed there's an offset voltage in the BIOS? What is the purpose of this? I've lowered the VCOre voltage to 1.325 V, but had to increase the NB to 1.425 - after resetting BIOS this was set to 1.2V by default, but before I loaded the XMP memory profile, I guess the dual channel 1200 MHz need a higher NB Voltage to stay stable. Also increased the NB multiplier from 18x to 20x.

One more thing I've noticed when both IBT is on and Furmark GPU stress test is on: even if I turned off Thermal Throttling in BIOS, I will still see the CPU multiplier dropping to 30x from time-to-time. Is this a bug in the AsRock BIOS or is it a faulty chip? The temperatures readings usually are 52-53 at this point, I don't quite understand the throttling? Is this realted to "droop"? A phenomena when core voltage drops under load and fails to stay within the target TDP?

Alse what is a good stability test for this configuration? IBT on Standard settings went just fine, no crashes in 10 passes...

After reading a few more tutorials I'm starting to understand that overclocking this APU is not difficult at all...
Next thing I might try is to overclock my DDR3-2400 RAM or at least tighten the timings.


----------



## chaosdna

does this look alright?


----------



## UserName

2133DDR3


----------



## UserName

2400DDR3


----------



## chaosdna

i see no noticeable difference


----------



## drmrlordx

UserName, what were your timings? Were they the same for DDR3-2133 as they were DDR3-2400?


----------



## UserName

Not remember, master timing about 11-14-14-30 2133 and 12-14-14-32 2400. Slave timing i set "+2" the same 2133.
Samsung DHO 4g*2 - doublerank.
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-01/amd-kaveri-arbeitsspeicher/
Dualrank memory do 7-10% higher system, NB from 1800 to 2000 do about 10%..


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UserName*
> 
> Not remember, master timing about 11-14-14-30 2133 and 12-14-14-32 2400. Slave timing i set "+2" the same 2133.
> Samsung DHO 4g*2 - doublerank.
> http://www.computerbase.de/2014-01/amd-kaveri-arbeitsspeicher/
> Dualrank memory do 7-10% higher system, NB from 1800 to 2000 do about 10%..


Hmm okay, thanks. Just curious.


----------



## Veedo

Hey guys, quick question: what are the stock voltages for the 7850k? 1.35 vcore and 1.2 NB? Can't seem to find a definite answer. Thanks.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Veedo*
> 
> Hey guys, quick question: what are the stock voltages for the 7850k? 1.35 vcore and 1.2 NB? Can't seem to find a definite answer. Thanks.


I think it depends on your DDR Memory. As far as I remember correctly, when I loaded the AMP profile, I've got NB set to 1.4V and and CPU VCore set to 1.45V ( 1.55V is maximum allowed according to BIOS). I think memory controller with DDR-2400 needs a higher NB voltage to be stable at this frequency of 2400 MHz. I've seen default was 1.2V with 1333 MHz memory.

Just reset the BIOS and load default values and you'll see what the stock voltages are.


----------



## Veedo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> I think it depends on your DDR Memory. As far as I remember correctly, when I loaded the AMP profile, I've got NB set to 1.4V and and CPU VCore set to 1.45V ( 1.55V is maximum allowed according to BIOS). I think memory controller with DDR-2400 needs a higher NB voltage to be stable at this frequency of 2400 MHz. I've seen default was 1.2V with 1333 MHz memory.
> 
> Just reset the BIOS and load default values and you'll see what the stock voltages are.


Not sure I'm trusting the asrock bios to set default voltages. But it seems I'm 4.1 stable with 1.35 vcore and 1.3 NB. 1.4v on Samsung low voltage ram is getting me to 2133. Can't hit 2400 stable I don't think.


----------



## FlanK3r

http://www.overclock.net/t/1506485/official-asus-crossblade-ranger-fm2-review-and-the-official-ovc-club

New board for good OC potential...Im in beta phase testing.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1506485/official-asus-crossblade-ranger-fm2-review-and-the-official-ovc-club
> 
> New board for good OC potential...Im in beta phase testing.


Interesting . . . does the UEFI let you set target TDP higher than 95W? Could that be what we're finally looking for as a UEFI/BIOS-based solution to the 3 ghz throttling problem? Could it also be the key to getting additional performance from Kaveri past 4.5 ghz on air/water?

Also, does this board hit APU frequencies/bclks higher than 105 mhz on air?


----------



## FlanK3r

No, everything over 95 is "auto". You can change it only to 45/65 or auto. I can try, but about some hardcoreload throttling I heard, its no problem in boards, but in CPU. Im sure with refresh of Kaveri they fixing it.
Now Im testing basic clocks, after OC. We will see, if the wall 105 be done  (in IDE mode, in AHCI not, its AHCI/RAID update at A88X chipset, there is the reason the wall, the same as with Intels)


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1506485/official-asus-crossblade-ranger-fm2-review-and-the-official-ovc-club
> 
> New board for good OC potential...Im in beta phase testing.


Hey FlanK3r,

One of the builds for the AMD High Performance Project is a 7850K/A88X build. I will be watching for your results with great interest to see how they compare with mine.


----------



## FlanK3r

This Crossblade looking very well and 2666 memory in BIOS







. Bad news is my A10-7850K chip. I had one better in reviews time and I return it after test. Now this retail from shop is not much good. Maybe Im trying next one and maybe Il have more luck. Stay tuned







.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*
> 
> This Crossblade looking very well and 2666 memory in BIOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Bad news is my A10-7850K chip. I had one better in reviews time and I return it after test. Now this retail from shop is not much good. Maybe Im trying next one and maybe Il have more luck. Stay tuned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


 My 7850K was sent to me by AMD as well. I have not gotten around to really pushing it yet, but it's running @ 4.5 @ 1.44v. The memory I have not played with yet at all so I can't comment on the IMC just yet. I am getting some really terrific results withe the R7 250 dual Graphic mode on the 14.7 RC drivers though, really impressed.

looking forward to how you progress with yours. I am getting some work done on the Quad R290X build now as the last sponsor's stuff just arrived.

good luck, and keep me in the loop if you would


----------



## DannyDK

Its impressing how a lot of you out there can get your chips to run at 4.5 with that small voltage, i have to set mine to absolut top and an offset of 0.050 or it will blue screen on me :-/


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Its impressing how a lot of you out there can get your chips to run at 4.5 with that small voltage, i have to set mine to absolut top and an offset of 0.050 or it will blue screen on me :-/


 You Know Danny, as much as CPU's are a bit of the 'silicon lottery' I am finding (maybe Flank3r can confirm or back up) I am finding that the APU's are even more wide ranging in their OC'ing capability.

Secondly, a quality motherboard. I dont know what you are using , but a good 88X is critical if you want to push your Kaveri.

Just a couple thoughts


----------



## iceman595

ok guys so i recently just started getting these messages

display driver stopped working but has recovered

running 7850k @ 4.4, NB 2000, Igpu 920, ram 2400

Is there any way to tell what might be causing it?

its been happening whenever i open photoshop for some reason, it basically requires me to get out of photoshop and get back in, then after its fine but it always seems like the first boot up the igpu crashes


----------



## DannyDK

My mobo is Asrock Killer


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> ok guys so i recently just started getting these messages
> 
> display driver stopped working but has recovered
> 
> running 7850k @ 4.4, NB 2000, Igpu 920, ram 2400
> 
> Is there any way to tell what might be causing it?
> 
> its been happening whenever i open photoshop for some reason, it basically requires me to get out of photoshop and get back in, then after its fine but it always seems like the first boot up the igpu crashes


If its happening when you open/use PS. go into PS settings and see if it is using GPU acceleration and turn it off to see if the characteristics change.


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> My 7850K was sent to me by AMD as well. I have not gotten around to really pushing it yet, but it's running @ 4.5 @ 1.44v. The memory I have not played with yet at all so I can't comment on the IMC just yet. I am getting some really terrific results withe the R7 250 dual Graphic mode on the 14.7 RC drivers though, really impressed.
> looking forward to how you progress with yours. I am getting some work done on the Quad R290X build now as the last sponsor's stuff just arrived.
> good luck, and keep me in the loop if you would


It as simillar chips as mine







. The new is around 100 MHz worse :-/...


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*
> 
> No, everything over 95 is "auto". You can change it only to 45/65 or auto. I can try, but about some hardcoreload throttling I heard, its no problem in boards, but in CPU. Im sure with refresh of Kaveri they fixing it.
> Now Im testing basic clocks, after OC. We will see, if the wall 105 be done  (in IDE mode, in AHCI not, its AHCI/RAID update at A88X chipset, there is the reason the wall, the same as with Intels)


Thanks. I remember you getting a bclk up in the 130 mhz range with that Asus FM1 board and a Kabini chip. Figuring out how to crack the 105 mhz bclk barrier on Kaveri will be the key to overclocking the A8-7600.


----------



## FlanK3r

there is issue the different AHCI/RAID driver than with A85X and others AMD APU chipsets...So I dont believe for high BCLK clocks at A88x







...But we will see.


----------



## djohny24

Finally road to 2666Mhz


















This is my second apu, better than my first 7850K


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Nice !


----------



## smokesumkill

At 1.000v Vcore? Hmm.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smokesumkill*
> 
> At 1.000v Vcore? Hmm.


Saw that to he he, pretty good ;-)


----------



## iceman595

mm first bsod today

whats the recommending cpu voltage @ 4.4?

same with igpu? currently running at 900mhz


----------



## djohny24

1.45V for 4400Mhz









When you finish a bench, vcore and frequency drops.


----------



## smokesumkill

Aha. So how did you get the BLCK so high? Bios? Asus software? Even at 101, my computer will POST but I don't get anything on the display.


----------



## djohny24

Bclk 111 for 2666Mhz ram, is the only way







but a few months ago i cant do this (maybe poor bios).

Blck in this Apus works perfectly at 106, 111, 125, 129... at least for me, as A10-6800K and other apus is A85x and a88x.


----------



## MartinSkyfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Bclk 111 for 2666Mhz ram, is the only way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but a few months ago i cant do this (maybe poor bios).
> 
> Blck in this Apus works perfectly at 106, 111, 125, 129... at least for me, as A10-6800K and other apus is A85x and a88x.


Should you change the timings? I guess the right timings for 2666 Mhz is 11-13-13-35. And what about the voltage? Should you change the voltage to the 1.7 ?


----------



## djohny24

No, same timmings and voltage, 11-13-13-35 2T and 1.65v

For 2400Mhz was 10-12-12-32 2T 1.62v.

Apu voltage: 1.15v
Cpu vcore: 1.45v
vddc voltage (imc) 1.375v.

And works perfectly, no bsod or crashes...


----------



## MartinSkyfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> No, same timmings and voltage, 11-13-13-35 2T and 1.65v
> 
> For 2400Mhz was 10-12-12-32 2T 1.62v.
> 
> Apu voltage: 1.15v
> Cpu vcore: 1.45v
> vddc voltage (imc) 1.375v.
> 
> And works perfectly, no bsod or crashes...


My stock timings for G.Skill Trident X 2400 Mhz is 10-12-12-31 1.65 v. I guess i will have to increase the voltage to 1.7 to overclock the memory. Do you think i can somehow overclock the memory and keep the voltage at 1.65?


----------



## Farmer Boe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MartinSkyfall*
> 
> My stock timings for G.Skill Trident X 2400 Mhz is 10-12-12-31 1.65 v. I guess i will have to increase the voltage to 1.7 to overclock the memory. Do you think i can somehow overclock the memory and keep the voltage at 1.65?


I wouldn't worry until you have to push the voltage above 1.75v for your RAM. Dimms are quite resilient to higher voltages unlike processors. Crank er up to 1.75v with the same timings and see if it will boot. If so, start dropping the primaries until it won't boot. Easy!


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Bclk 111 for 2666Mhz ram, is the only way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but a few months ago i cant do this (maybe poor bios).
> 
> Blck in this Apus works perfectly at 106, 111, 125, 129... at least for me, as A10-6800K and other apus is A85x and a88x.


Whoa, 129 mhz bclk? Is that in AHCI or IDE mode?


----------



## djohny24

111Bclk works right in ahci mode, but 129 its too high.

I have a problem. I installed the latest Amd Overdrive software no load and reset my computer (like reset button)... Whats the problem?.

With or without overclock, 2 different bios and Windows 8 and 8.1.

Suggestions?


----------



## MartinSkyfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farmer Boe*
> 
> I wouldn't worry until you have to push the voltage above 1.75v for your RAM. Dimms are quite resilient to higher voltages unlike processors. Crank er up to 1.75v with the same timings and see if it will boot. If so, start dropping the primaries until it won't boot. Easy!


Sounds pretty cool, but i found that i can overclock memory at 2500 Mhz without touching voltage and timings. But i will try your suggestion, thanks.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Anyone with an msi a88x g45 having issues with memory running in dual channel? Bios will see 8 gigs in channels 1 and 2 only, rmaed board twice and memory once, channel 1 and 3 i only get 4 gigs and the same as channels 2 and 4 . I wonder if my apu memory controller is damaged? Any thoughts?Windows actually shows 8 gigs in dual channel but 4gigs reserved and 2 gigs reserved for igpu that I set, but in channels 1 and 2 Windows shows 6 gigs because of igpu.


----------



## TinoArg

I change my A8-3850 for a A10-7700K, and it´s great for 768p.

I have a doubt. Since Kaveri has hUMA, is hardware dedicated memory not necessary anymore? I lower the settings from 512MB (I only have 4GB) to 64MB and the performance is the same, and I have more RAM for the CPU.
GPU-Z shows that dedicated memory is not being used, only dynamic:



That's not the case for Richland for example:



PS: Are G.Skill Trident X 2400 2x4GB memories Dual-ranked?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> I change my A8-3850 for a A10-7700K, and it´s great for 768p.
> 
> I have a doubt. Since Kaveri has hUMA, is hardware dedicated memory not necessary anymore? I lower the settings from 512MB (I only have 4GB) to 64MB and the performance is the same, and I have more RAM for the CPU.
> GPU-Z shows that dedicated memory is not being used, only dynamic:


Interesting. I would think that only applicable when running a Mantle-enabled game or perhaps an HSA-enabled app. Have you tried running Fire Strike with different dedicated memory configurations?


----------



## TinoArg

I did a little more overclock to my 7700K, all with stock voltages, since my motherboard (it's only temporary) doesn't let you change anything, and with Cool'n'Quiet and C6 enabled, since I'll use it in a 6L case with a 220w PSU and very little airflow.

*CPU:* 4GHz.











*GPU:* 1028MHz








*NB:* 2000MHz (at 2100MHz I can´t boot)








*RAM:* 1866MHz









There is no way I can´t boot at 2133MHz, neither with XMP or manual settings (from XMP values to 13-15-15-15...)

With Llano I put this RAMs at 2250 stable and I could boot at 2450MHz.

Here with this settings. Is a 100% over my ex A8-3850:












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Interesting. I would think that only applicable when running a Mantle-enabled game or perhaps an HSA-enabled app. Have you tried running Fire Strike with different dedicated memory configurations?


Well, I was testing a little more, always with the same settings, and there is a difference, in special for 1024MB (I´ve never tried with this before because I only have 4GB of RAM, and I thought it will be too much)

*64MB*: 1369p
*128MB*: 1375p
*256MB*: 1379p
*512MB*: 1431p
*1024MB*: 1533p

I didn´t notice differences with games, except with GTA IV, because you can´t set textures to High with 512MB and with less than 256MB it didn't start (I added -norestrictions -nomemrestrict to the command line but it didn´t work anyway).


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Well, I was testing a little more, always with the same settings, and there is a difference, in special for 1024MB (I´ve never tried with this before because I only have 4GB of RAM, and I thought it will be too much)
> 
> *64MB*: 1369p
> *128MB*: 1375p
> *256MB*: 1379p
> *512MB*: 1431p
> *1024MB*: 1533p
> 
> I didn´t notice differences with games, except with GTA IV, because you can´t set textures to High with 512MB and with less than 256MB it didn't start (I added -norestrictions -nomemrestrict to the command line but it didn´t work anyway).


Interesting. I haven't seen anyone test with less than 512 mb memory dedicated to the iGPU. I've also heard that it gets slower if you jump from 1 to 2 gb.


----------



## Zlob Ster

One question here, how exactly are the NB freq. and RAM freq. related? What happens if I run the NB @ 1680MHz and the RAM @ 2133MHz?

Shouldn't the NB clock at least match the RAM clocks? According to the explanations in my BIOS - NB:MEM clock ratio should be at least 1.25:1 in order for the system to run stable. Which is kinda' funny because I'm currently running fine with a lower ratio. Or it's just because ASUS is 'Rock Soldid'? ;-) 1.25x NB would yield a 2666MHz NB for 2133MHz RAM!!! Good luck getting Kaveri there!

I rock a 7850K @4.00GHz (Corsair H90 cooled), A88X-PRO and 16GB of finest Radeon memory. All this fed by a nasty Delta PSU.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zlob Ster*
> 
> Shouldn't the NB clock at least match the RAM clocks?


This is a common misconception that has been kicking around since the K10 days. The NB and RAM are capable of operating quite well asynchronously (that is, at different clock speeds). Furthermore, it's obvious that the NB/memory controller is not bandwidth-saturated at 2 ghz (or even the stock 1.8 ghz) since Kaveri enjoys performance improvements with increasing memory clockspeed. One thing that you have to keep in mind is that DDR3 DIMMs do not actually run at the rated DDR3 speed. For example, DDR3-1600 memory has a clockspeed of only 200 mhz. A DDR3 interface is capable of data transfer at eight times the internal memory array speed of the DIMM due to various signaling tricks that make this feat possible.

So when you are running an NB speed of 2000 mhz and a RAM speed of DDR3-2133, the comparison is skewed by the DDR3 rating. How many bits can the NB memory controller send/receive per clock? I have no idea.

Increases in CPU performance (and iGPU performance) have been observed at increased NB speeds. It is important to note that overall RAM performance is determined by memory clockspeed/timing as well as NB speed. Even if your memory speed/timings remain unchanged, it is still possible to reduce latency between the CPU and memory controller by increasing NB speed, which will improve memory (and, thusly, CPU/iGPU) performance.
Quote:


> According to the explanations in my BIOS - NB:MEM clock ratio should be at least 1.25:1 in order for the system to run stable. Which is kinda' funny because I'm currently running fine with a lower ratio. Or it's just because ASUS is 'Rock Soldid'? ;-) 1.25x NB would yield a 2666MHz NB for 2133MHz RAM!!! Good luck getting Kaveri there!
> .


That is a rather strange comparison, but I think you may have the ratio backwards. They may be trying to indicate that a minimum NB speed of 2133 mhz would be ideal for DDR3-2666, which is entirely possible. Good luck hitting an NB speed that high on air/water.


----------



## Zlob Ster

Thank you very much! Finally some sane explanation!

Silly me, ofc the RAM clock speed is really slow (in orders of magnitude). But the actual baud rate, or information speed if you wish, is way higher. I still wonder what will happen if you match the NB and RAM speeds, though. Will it go synchronous? I don't know. But it's still interesting, nonetheless. Not that I've seen a single person who was able to get more than 2050MHz on the NB (air/water).

As far as the NB:MEM ratio is concerned, I'm pretty sure I got that right. I will try to post a screenshot from the BIOS later. Also, I'll keep the thread updated with results, once I manage to OC that NB of mine.


----------



## Zlob Ster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zlob Ster*
> 
> Thank you very much! Finally some sane explanation!
> 
> Silly me, ofc the RAM clock speed is really slow (in orders of magnitude). But the actual baud rate, or information speed if you wish, is way higher. I still wonder what will happen if you match the NB and RAM speeds, though. Will it go synchronous? I don't know. But it's still interesting, nonetheless. Not that I've seen a single person who was able to get more than 2050MHz on the NB (air/water).
> 
> As far as the NB:MEM ratio is concerned, I'm pretty sure I got that right. I will try to post a screenshot from the BIOS later. Also, I'll keep the thread updated with results, once I manage to OC that NB of mine.


As I promised, the images:




Note the NB ratio I was talking about. And that's the latest BIOS from ASUS.

And, I kind of had too many beers after a rough day and I decided to postpone the NB OC.








Kids, don't drink and overclock!


----------



## TinoArg

I've tried differents NB speeds (well, from 1800 to 2100, and 2100 was unstable), and the CPU memory bandwidth improves (and latency gets lower), but the GPU memory bandwidth was the same (both measured with AIDA64 GPGPU benchmark).


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zlob Ster*
> 
> Thank you very much! Finally some sane explanation!
> 
> Silly me, ofc the RAM clock speed is really slow (in orders of magnitude). But the actual baud rate, or information speed if you wish, is way higher. I still wonder what will happen if you match the NB and RAM speeds, though. Will it go synchronous? I don't know. But it's still interesting, nonetheless. Not that I've seen a single person who was able to get more than 2050MHz on the NB (air/water).


Notice how I said that I don't know how the IMC handles bits per cycle? While we do know the DDR3 interface can send/receive data 8 times per cycle (giving the aforementioned DDR3-1600 a theoretical throughput of 200 x 64 bits x 8 = 12800 MB/s), we don't know how the IMC handles bits per cycle. Can it send/receive 2 times per NB cycle? 4 times? 8 times? Also, the IMC has various buffers, and on chips with L3 cache, the NB is responsible for handling that, too. The NB/IMC is responsible for accepting read/write requests from the CPU (and on Kaveri, the iGPU as well), translating them into commands for the DDR3 interface, sending along those and then receiving back the results. The NB is a very busy little piece of silicon. I would assume it to be unwise to simply compare clockspeeds - or even effective clockspeeds - of the NB and the DDR3 interface and then make assumptions about which part of the memory read/write chain is bandwidth-saturated.

One thing we can observe, at least from looking at K10 and Piledriver, is that the bandwidth between the CPU and the L3 cache is always higher than the bandwidth between the CPU and the DDR3 interface (in the case of Piledriver, sometimes the difference isn't all that great). Since the NB serves as the controller for L3 cache on Bulldozer/Piledriver and older architectures, it is rational to conclude that the link between the CPU and the NB provides enough bandwidth to handle cache read/writes and DDR3 memory read/writes, often simultaneously. We can further conclude that the NB operates at a sufficiently high clockspeed at stock (and definitely when overclocked) to handle all of this traffic. It is highly improbable that the DDR3 interface would ever run fast enough to overwhelm the NB on any existing AMD CPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zlob Ster*
> 
> As I promised, the images:
> 
> Note the NB ratio I was talking about. And that's the latest BIOS from ASUS.


Huh. That has to be some kind of a typo. I've run NB speeds way above my DDR3 speeds on older K10 chips with good results, but a lot of that came from the NB having serious legs (2900 mhz or so) and the memory controller not liking high DDR3 speeds. On Kaveri, that just makes no sense.
Quote:


> And, I kind of had too many beers after a rough day and I decided to postpone the NB OC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids, don't drink and overclock!


Sound advice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> I've tried differents NB speeds (well, from 1800 to 2100, and 2100 was unstable), and the CPU memory bandwidth improves (and latency gets lower), but the GPU memory bandwidth was the same (both measured with AIDA64 GPGPU benchmark).


I have seen people indicate the contrary, sort of: AIDA reported increased memory bandwidth to the iGPU, but there was no notable increase in iGPU performance from it.


----------



## David28

I'm also fighting with the nortbridge 'barrier', but recently i was able to boot windows with a frequency of 2100mhz NB. My motherboard is GA-F2A88XM-D3H (gigabyte). I think it has to do with the memory subtimings, after palying around with it was able to boot above 2000mhz. The performance increase is substantial! im almost getting 26000 on memory reads. To bad it's not stable yet, after a while it crashes while gaming, but it's stable for everything else!

On a side note, what is the normal temperature in bios for A10 7850k? Upon entering bios it quickly rises to about 67-70 degrees.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *David28*
> 
> I'm also fighting with the nortbridge 'barrier', but recently i was able to boot windows with a frequency of 2100mhz NB. My motherboard is GA-F2A88XM-D3H (gigabyte). I think it has to do with the memory subtimings, after palying around with it was able to boot above 2000mhz. The performance increase is substantial! im almost getting 26000 on memory reads. To bad it's not stable yet, after a while it crashes while gaming, but it's stable for everything else!
> 
> On a side note, what is the normal temperature in bios for A10 7850k? Upon entering bios it quickly rises to about 67-70 degrees.


 The 7850 runs warmer than the Fx series does. I don't know what activity is happening when you are in the BIOS, however the thermal acceptable limit for the 7850 is 72.4c

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-7850K.html


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> The 7850 runs warmer than the Fx series does. I don't know what activity is happening when you are in the BIOS, however the thermal acceptable limit for the 7850 is 72.4c
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-7850K.html


There are several reasons for Kaveri running so much hotter than FX. FX chips are, to my knowledge, possessed of a soldered-down IHS, while Kaveri uses TIM. Kaveri may actually be as much in need of a delid/relid as Haswell, depending on how serious you are about lowering your temps.


----------



## kyfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> There are several reasons for Kaveri running so much hotter than FX. FX chips are, to my knowledge, possessed of a soldered-down IHS, while Kaveri uses TIM. Kaveri may actually be as much in need of a delid/relid as Haswell, depending on how serious you are about lowering your temps.


Keep in mind , also that Kaveri has a GPU stuffed in there with the CPU and the FX doesn't.


----------



## Zlob Ster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *David28*
> 
> On a side note, what is the normal temperature in bios for A10 7850k? Upon entering bios it quickly rises to about 67-70 degrees.


My 7850K runs 32C on idle @ 4.00GHz in the BIOS. When stressed with LinPack or similar, it goes up to 52C. Room temperature is 26C in all cases. I've never been able to get it hotter than 52C, though.

You can see the rig specs in the signature.


----------



## David28

Great temps!, though your running a discrete card, so the stress on the IGPU is diminished. I'm using the stock cooler, so im not expecting miracles to happen. I will order some thermal paste, and remount the cooler.


----------



## Zlob Ster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *David28*
> 
> Great temps!, though your running a discrete card, so the stress on the IGPU is diminished. I'm using the stock cooler, so im not expecting miracles to happen. I will order some thermal paste, and remount the cooler.


Good temps? I thought they were even too high for such a setup. The H90 use dense fins configuration and I took the 140mm Noctua with the best static pressure available.

Note that the iGPU is set to 960MHz via the 'Extreme' option in ASUS' BIOS. And I do use it for OpenCL calculations. You won't believe what beast it is @ those clocks. 720p & 900p gaming is really fine solely on the OC'd iGPU.

Strange thing is that the idle temps are somewhat high, while the temps under load are OK. I guess the power of the H90 is with high thermal loads.

Anyway, a good thermal paste will improve the situation, if applied properly.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> The 7850 runs warmer than the Fx series does. I don't know what activity is happening when you are in the BIOS, however the thermal acceptable limit for the 7850 is 72.4c
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-7850K.html
> 
> 
> 
> There are several reasons for Kaveri running so much hotter than FX. FX chips are, to my knowledge, possessed of a soldered-down IHS, while Kaveri uses TIM. Kaveri may actually be as much in need of a delid/relid as Haswell, depending on how serious you are about lowering your temps.
Click to expand...

I am running @ 4.5Ghz with a 1Ghz IPGU and R7 250 dual graphics and don't hit 70c during the AOD stability test.


----------



## smokesumkill

The Kaveri chip is extremely inaccurate in it's display of temperatures. There's lots of threads with people reporting unusually high numbers. In one program, I saw 106 degrees C under full load. There's no way it would get that high before shutting down. I suggest you guys use the utility that your motherboard comes with (I use EasyTune6) which accurately reports the temperature. OpenHardware shows accurate temperatures once under load, as well.


----------



## David28

For a while now my graphics were not 'crisp' difficult to discribe, but headache inducing. I figered out the problem, for gigabyte motherboards, almost destroyed everything in the process by changing voltages unneccery, reinstalling drivers...etc. The simple sollution is to change the LLC settings to standerd, maybe other settings will also work, watever you do, DO NOT LEAVE THE LLC on AUTO, i repeat do not leave the LLC on auto. This has nothing to do with overclocking, leaving everything standerd the same problem persist if you leave LLC on auto.

So for those with gigabyte motherboard, be forwarned

My graphics are super crisp again!


----------



## H0ll0wCr0wn

My mb is Asrock fm2a88x extreme4+. In LLC setting, options are; Auto, 1/2 vcore, 1/2 vcore nb, and 1/2 vcore+1/2 vcore nb. I don't know what are the meaning / differences between them and what is the best settings for LLC.


----------



## David28

Simple trial and error, if you experience subtle problems with graphics and stability, keep changing it to see if it helps. Auto is not the best option, at least in my case.


----------



## djohny24

Latest gpu score on 3dmark with 14.8whql. Ram @ 2666, igp @ 1066Mhz and cpu +- 4350Mhz.


----------



## David28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H0ll0wCr0wn*
> 
> My mb is Asrock fm2a88x extreme4+. In LLC setting, options are; Auto, 1/2 vcore, 1/2 vcore nb, and 1/2 vcore+1/2 vcore nb. I don't know what are the meaning / differences between them and what is the best settings for LLC.


What LLC simply does is making overclcok possible without changing voltages. So with LLC on auto you simply change the multiplier of the cpu, and change the fequency of the IGPU to for example 960mhz, without changing any voltages. It will 'work' if you keep the overclock modest, but the graphics will not be crisp, and give you a headache, extremly subtle. What you need to do is set the LLC to lowest settings possible (do not disable), use your modest overclcok for the cpu and igpu and boot. Do some testing play some games, and if the system crashes apply extra voltage tot the cpu and igpu. Im stable @ Vcore +0.036 4ghz and IGPU +0.042 960mhz.


----------



## David28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Latest gpu score on 3dmark with 14.8whql. Ram @ 2666, igp @ 1066Mhz and cpu +- 4350Mhz.
> 
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> The new catalyst driver is not working correct for me, flickering artefacts. Your score btw is a bit on the low side for your set up. with ram @ 2666 i expect above 1900 score. maybe you should increase the northbridge frequency? i can top 1900 with memory @ 2400mhz igpu @ 960mhz and [email protected] 4.3 ghz. Northbridge frequency seems to give the greatest performance boost.


----------



## TinoArg

Yes, it seems a bit low. I got 1692 with 14.7RC3 (and the same win 14.8WHQL) with a 7700K @ 4GHz, IGP @ 1028MHz, RAM @ 2133 and NB @ 2000MHz. I can't pass 3DMark with ram at 2400MHz, not even underclocking NB to 1800MHz and IGP to 900MHz.


----------



## djohny24

Nb is a bit higher beacuse bclk is 111Mhz. 1066Mhz on igp, 4350Mhz cpu and yes, 2666Mhz with 11-13-13-32 timmings.

My score is low?.


----------



## David28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Yes, it seems a bit low. I got 1692 with 14.7RC3 (and the same win 14.8WHQL) with a 7700K @ 4GHz, IGP @ 1028MHz, RAM @ 2133 and NB @ 2000MHz. I can't pass 3DMark with ram at 2400MHz, not even underclocking NB to 1800MHz and IGP to 900MHz.


You don't need to 'underclcok' the northbridge, unless the bclk decides to skyrocket and push your NB to 2100mhz, and unfortunately becomes unstable (i still think it's possible to be stable @2100mhz, haven't given up yet). Is your ram rated for 2400mhz? what are your voltage values for cpu IGPU?


----------



## TinoArg

I was trying if I could make it stable, but I couldn't. Probably it needs a higher voltage.

But my motherboard (MSI A88XM-E35) don´t let me touch any voltages, all are setting auto, and they change when you increase the multipliers. At those settings, it says 1.375v for the NB/iGPU.

Anyway this board is temporal, it was bundled with the 7700K for the price of the 7850K alone. In the next days I'm going to sell it a buy an ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+.


----------



## robirobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Finally road to 2666Mhz


With your Asus A88XM-Plus?


----------



## djohny24

Yup, the same mobo than last time.


----------



## robirobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Yup, the same mobo than last time.


How do you reach 2666MHz? I thought 2400MHz would be the limit...


----------



## David28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robirobi*
> 
> How do you reach 2666MHz? I thought 2400MHz would be the limit...


He changed the fsb to 111, you can do the same if your lucky.


----------



## djohny24

Exactly







. 2666mhz is "unofficial". so, we must set bclk to 111.

And increase a little vnndnb voltage (imc).

2400 to 2666 is at least 10% extra performance in games, but i dont know if that works in others motherboards.

I want Opencl 2.0 and Hsa drivers, still incompatible.


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Exactly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 2666mhz is "unofficial". so, we must set bclk to 111.
> 
> And increase a little vnndnb voltage (imc).
> 
> 2400 to 2666 is at least 10% extra performance in games, but i dont know if that works in others motherboards.
> 
> I want Opencl 2.0 and Hsa drivers, still incompatible.


i wonder if my trident x will go to 2666 hmmmmmmmmmm must try when I get home

what is your vnndnb voltage?


----------



## djohny24

For 2666mhz is 1.377v







but only a reference, each processor, ram and voltages are differents


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> For 2666mhz is 1.377v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but only a reference, each processor, ram and voltages are differents


ya i'll see what mine is and go from there, thanks


----------



## mnnglss

Hello, I'm new member at the forum. First, I've never done a overclock ever and I don't know anything about voltage, frequency, multiplyers, etc. I won't use the PC for more than games like CS 1.6, CS G.O. and maybe others. I mean, I don't need it to be at super full power.

I bought a AMD 7850k + ASUS A88X-PRO + A-DATA 4x2 2400MHZ kit. I install all in a Thermaltake Chaser A31 and put a Cooler Master

I haven't even install Windows yet, I just flash the bios to the latest version and put the memory profile for 2400MHZ, just that. On my MB I have the TPU and EPU switches ON.

What I want to know is how does my changes affect my pc, I mean, does it "force" the cpu in any way?

ps: Is there a newbie guide or a overclocking for dummies article out there for me to start understanding this whole new world?


----------



## Pionir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> For 2666mhz is 1.377v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but only a reference, each processor, ram and voltages are differents


hmm, hello!









Latencies, please ?

Are you test memory with MaxxMEM ?

Check this out (the last picture is 7850K @ 1900NB, 2X4GB,1866 @ 10-10-10-24-33 @ 1.60V, 2T) :


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## robirobi

Someone tried Asus' Crossblade Ranger with 2666MHz memory? It's supposed to go up to 2666MHz...


----------



## H0ll0wCr0wn

My 7850k runs stable @4.4ghz with 1.4500v+c6&cool&quiet enabled. It's good for cpu lifetime? or should I lower the voltage and use cpu offset?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H0ll0wCr0wn*
> 
> My 7850k runs stable @4.4ghz with 1.4500v+c6&cool&quiet enabled. It's good for cpu lifetime? or should I lower the voltage and use cpu offset?


That would depend on what you consider the CPU's lifetime to be. Odds are that pushing high vcore will force you to dial back the overclock over time, sometimes as soon as 1-2 years after the outset of operation. But 1.45v shouldn't be too awful.


----------



## djohny24

Why when the apu is running igp + cpu, the cpu drops to 3Ghz always?


----------



## smokesumkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Why when the apu is running igp + cpu, the cpu drops to 3Ghz always?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smokesumkill*
> 
> I found some interesting results. Everyone and their mom is complaining about how the CPU throttles to 30x when the GPU is under full load. Using MSRTWEAKER 1.1, you can change the P5 state (which is what it throttles to) and effectively keep both iGPU and CPU operating at maximum frequency. This does nothing for my 3DMARK skydiver results, and does nothing for me in in BF4 with mantle enabled.
> 
> Right now my stable overclock is [email protected] GPU=1050ghz [email protected]
> Memory is G-Skill Sniper 2133 CAS11, overclocked to 2400mhz [email protected]
> 
> Skydiver score is 6729


----------



## djohny24

Works perfectly! Really thanks!


----------



## 2advanced




----------



## TinoArg

I hate G.Skill







They said me that TridentX RAMs are dual-side (an dual-rank), and I received mine today and they are single-side (and single-rank).

I got 150point less in 3DMark, and like 2000MB/s less in AIDA, at the same speed









P.S.: Djohny24, are your memories dual or single rank? Maybe is because that your 3D score is not so high, having 33% CUs and 25% bandwith than me.

P.S.2: At least now it works stable at 2400MHz, but anyway I get worse numbers than my old Dual-Ranked 2133MHz, even with better latencies...

  

The old ones at 2400MHz (3DMark was unstable)

 

In 3DMark Firestrike:
with Dual rank at 2133 -> 1692
with Single rank at 2133 -> 1562
with Single rank at 2400 -> 1668


----------



## Themisseble

They need to deal with "huge" memory bandwidth bottleneck

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-7850k_11.html#sect0

R7 250 is clocket at 1000 mhz and has same amount of GCN cores as A8 7600(clocked at 720 mhz)...
A10 7850K has 512 GCN cores clocket at *720 mhz*...

Manny people think that intel is catching up with AMD in iGPU

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/CPU-Hardware-154106/Specials/World-of-Warcraft-Mists-of-Pandaria-Test-CPU-Benchmarks-1109942/

yes... they are right about memory bandwidth but when it come to GPU power (msaa, ultra- still bottlenecked by bandwidth)...


----------



## TinoArg

Yes, that's why the 2 extra CUs of the 7850K are mostly useless for games (not for computing).

I set my new RAMs @2525MT/s rising the blck to 105MHz (max in my motherboard...), and with lower multipliers, so I get the same frecuencies in CPU (4GHz), NB (2GHz) and GPU (1010MHz, so -18MHz).

  

So more and less Dual-Ranked memories have a similar bandwith than Single-Ranked with ~350MT/s less. (I think the difference in the CPU part is higher)


----------



## Pionir

My 7850K PC needs to be repaired. I need to send the entire computer ...I have a small problem with the motherboard (integrated sound card).

Meanwhile, I will return to my 2600K+Noctua U12 for games









Today I bought a new thermal paste Arctic MX-2 and ...











Manhattan socket T/478 CPU Cooler








http://manhattan.icintracom.com/en-US/support/downloads/product/5677-socket-t-478-cpu-cooler
http://assets.mhint.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/2395/702997_datasheet.pdf

I can not believe it fits (AMD K7/K8 Opteron to FM2+)
















... and is an excellent, nickel-copper perfectly level cpu base, very good for surfing and watching movies ....


----------



## Pionir

[email protected] Latency 74 ns









I tested 7850K and I did not get even 1% mem.latency and mem.read/write from higher CPU freq (bus speed 100, 37-40).

So, did anyone tried determine differences with two or four pieces of RAM ?

TinoArg, how much pieces do you have ? I see two so far ...


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys. Now that the Athlon X4 860K is on sale, do you think it would overclock similar to the A10-7850K? I'm planning on grabbing one to replace my A8-6600K. Thanks


----------



## chrisjames61

drghagbfbbcvnbvbvbvbnn nvbvbvbvbvb
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys. Now that the Athlon X4 860K is on sale, do you think it would overclock similar to the A10-7850K? I'm planning on grabbing one to replace my A8-6600K. Thanks


The 7% difference in ipc doesn't make up for the better overclockability of the 760K. You would need an FM2+ board also.


----------



## drmrlordx

Nobody knows what the 860k is capable of doing just yet. Someone needs to run some tests and find out if it hits a wall around 4.5 ghz. Also, the shortage of L2 cache is a little off-putting, but we'll see how that works out once someone goes through the trouble of testing/overclocking one.


----------



## juanitox

Ok guys, thanks. I think we better wait and see.


----------



## semperaye

If anyone is still having issues getting 2400mhz ram 100% stable, I want to share what I did to make it work as this method has worked regardless of bios version, doing it otherwise is hit or miss depending on RAM and MB. Set the DRAM Voltage to 1.67, and set the RAM Frequency to 2400mhz, but keep the timings set to AUTO. Yes this will automatically loosing your RAM timings, but with these APU's the higher frequency and stability matters much more. If you still have issues with the RAM, then go up to 1.70v on the DRAM, do not panic here because often the MB will keep the ram running just under 1.70 this is very safe for today's gaming RAM. I've found that 4.4ghz is best for my CPU frequency as it only takes me a +96 bump in vcore, and 1000mhz for the igpu & 2000mhz NB both at a +.72v increase in NB. This has kept the system VERY cool, I saw not improvements pushing any of the settings further...anyway, I hope this helps someone.


----------



## semperaye

Any have the apu in dual graphics mid with an r7-250 that can tell me thier graphics Wei? Mine dropped from 6.9 to 6.5 I must have missed something! I had to turn the CPU and ram down for some reason my PC was not completely shutting down.

http://postimg.org/image/64z72cr03/


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> Any have the apu in dual graphics mid with an r7-250 that can tell me thier graphics Wei? Mine dropped from 6.9 to 6.5 I must have missed something! I had to turn the CPU and ram down for some reason my PC was not completely shutting down.
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/64z72cr03/


I do.

I would test it using a bench/games.

It probably dropped because it used the new card as the primary and rated it off that.

Dirt 3 went from 36FPS to 54FPS @1080x5760 after I added a MSI R7 250 to the 7850K

APU

Not sure what is happening with your RAM or CPU speed.


----------



## chaosdna

did u guys brake your IGPUs when u OCed or something cause your getting low low AIDA64s


i mean you guys are @1029mhz and not seeing any improvement and my board told me to set 900mhz and i got this,i mean it looks like your getting diminishing returns.


----------



## smokesumkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> did u guys brake your IGPUs when u OCed or something cause your getting low low AIDA64s
> 
> i mean you guys are @1029mhz and not seeing any improvement and my board told me to set 900mhz and i got this,i mean it looks like your getting diminishing returns.


You are on the left. I'm at 4.3ghz Core/ 1029mhz GPU/ 8gb 2400mhz 11-13-11-31


----------



## chaosdna

now thats what im talking about bro what are your settings?

but why does yours say 4gz and 920mhz?


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> now thats what im talking about bro what are your settings?
> 
> but why does yours say 4gz and 920mhz?




Before OC'ing the discreet R7 250


----------



## chaosdna

?huh


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> ?huh


Up a couple posts, the OP was wondering why his WEI may have dropped. I posted that to show that WEI may have rated off of the lower clocked/capable R7 250 rather than the APU.


----------



## Pionir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semperaye*
> 
> If anyone is still having issues getting 2400mhz ram 100% stable, I want to share what I did to make it work as this method has worked regardless of bios version, doing it otherwise is hit or miss depending on RAM and MB. Set the DRAM Voltage to 1.67, and set the RAM Frequency to 2400mhz, but keep the timings set to AUTO. Yes this will automatically loosing your RAM timings, but with these APU's the higher frequency and stability matters much more. If you still have issues with the RAM, then go up to 1.70v on the DRAM, do not panic here because often the MB will keep the ram running just under 1.70 this is very safe for today's gaming RAM. I've found that 4.4ghz is best for my CPU frequency as it only takes me a +96 bump in vcore, and 1000mhz for the igpu & 2000mhz NB both at a +.72v increase in NB. This has kept the system VERY cool, I saw not improvements pushing any of the settings further...anyway, I hope this helps someone.


Probably there is no need for high voltage, 1.65V is enough, just manually enlarge the latency CL 15-15-15-X-X @ 2400NHz, but first auto OC from 1600-1866 to 2133 MHz.


----------



## smokesumkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> now thats what im talking about bro what are your settings?
> 
> but why does yours say 4gz and 920mhz?


AIDA64 is wrong. If you want to know what your cores are doing in real time, use OpenHardware


----------



## chaosdna

ah i see how aida64 could be off still what are your settings for GPU clock @ that speed


----------



## chaosdna

stressed
no stress

does everything look alright?


----------



## djohny24

Can you guys post your Luxmark socre please? OpenCL GPU + CPU


----------



## chaosdna

point me in the right direction and ill give it a run


----------



## chaosdna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Can you guys post your Luxmark socre please? OpenCL GPU + CPU


Complex
Medium
Simple

btw i have no idea what any of this means


----------



## semperaye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> I do.
> I would test it using a bench/games.
> It probably dropped because it used the new card as the primary and rated it off that.
> 
> Dirt 3 went from 36FPS to 54FPS @1080x5760 after I added a MSI R7 250 to the 7850K
> APU
> Not sure what is happening with your RAM or CPU speed.


I started a thread over at AMD about this because it doesn't seem right, if anyone is interested:

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=475&threadid=178069


----------



## drmrlordx

Interesting. There's a thread on the Anandtech forums where you may wish to discuss your driver issues if you have not done so already (maybe there's a similar thread here? It would make sense if there were). Seems like AMD really wants some community feedback, and you've got quite a bit to offer them.


----------



## papasteack

Hi,
Got now a x4 860k with asrock a88x extreme6+.Runned @4,4ghz at 1,35V (PWM), yesterday tested with occt and crysis 3 with a hd7950 crossfire (with there own separate psu). I'm a bit limited by scythe topflow fan big shuriken, not optimal, but high use of pwm fan speed help. The only problem is that when overclocking higher then 4,2ghz, got freeze or blue screen when playing online video not in fullscreen. Can't understand why, lol as OCCT show no problems. NB is at 1,3v &1900mhz. Slow DDR3 is runnung at 666mhz CAS7. FSBRAM is 3:20...don't know if it's good or bad...don't know how to tweak well timmings, and automatic mode don't make things stable. Changing fsb higher even at 101mhz make it unstable... I set AHCI. All C6 and thermal stuff are OFF.
I'll try to change fan, and tweak vcore to 1,4V.
OCCT voltage with separate psu for gpu(s) are stable like rock.

Any advice to get higher then 100mhz bus, or to solve the online video bug stability issue ?? Is there really some fsb stable, and some other that don't work ? as seen earlier in this thread...like 100/106/122... working well, or something like that ? and if so, why ?


----------



## Pionir

...got freeze or blue screen when playing online video not in fullscreen...try this : Turn off Hardware Acceleration - https://forums.adobe.com/thread/891337

AMD Athlon X4 860K Black Edition CPU Quad Core FM2+ 3700Mhz 95W 4MB ?

Slow DDR3 is runnung at 666mhz CAS7. FSBRAM is 3:20 = *1.65V* ?

Go or try for CL9 or 11...I tried one time CL 7 and I failed...A10 7850K.


----------



## papasteack

Ok, i retryed some test. Now stable at 4,4ghz, 1,37V set on motherboard, from 1,34V idle to 1,42 loaded on occt (weird behavior?). In fact, got a not so bad ddr3, so i use it xmp2 setting 800mhz -cas 7 (yes, stable on memtest) 1,65V. CPU clock down to 3,5Ghz automatically sometime when reaching 60°C on OCCT, but i'll soon get Raijintek Ereboss tower fan on wich i will put some better fans, to replace topflow rad. NB to 1900Mhz with 1,29V (seemed to help stabilizing ram). 1,16Vddp helped to boot at 105 fsb, but even 101 wasn't fully stable, so i came back to 100 to get ram at 800mhz/cas 7. Maybe it's fsbRAM of 1:8 that works good for me...

I will maybe try 4,5ghz with tower fan, but i don't want to go higher then 1,39V. I'll measure VRM rad temperature, wich i suspect to be responsable of the loaded higher cpu voltage as others voltage remain totally stable.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *papasteack*
> 
> Ok, i retryed some test. Now stable at 4,4ghz, 1,37V set on motherboard, from 1,34V idle to 1,42 loaded on occt (weird behavior?). In fact, got a not so bad ddr3, so i use it xmp2 setting 800mhz -cas 7 (yes, stable on memtest) 1,65V. CPU clock down to 3,5Ghz automatically sometime when reaching 60°C on OCCT, but i'll soon get Raijintek Ereboss tower fan on wich i will put some better fans, to replace topflow rad. NB to 1900Mhz with 1,29V (seemed to help stabilizing ram). 1,16Vddp helped to boot at 105 fsb, but even 101 wasn't fully stable, so i came back to 100 to get ram at 800mhz/cas 7. Maybe it's fsbRAM of 1:8 that works good for me...
> 
> I will maybe try 4,5ghz with tower fan, but i don't want to go higher then 1,39V. I'll measure VRM rad temperature, wich i suspect to be responsable of the loaded higher cpu voltage as others voltage remain totally stable.


Have you tried using something like Memtest to see if your memory is stable? Also, I would recommend using more than just OCCT for CPU stability testing.


----------



## papasteack

Yes, it's stable on memtest, just like yet said. And i've played with on crysis 3 too ^^ without any problem. But i've got now to futhermore fine tuning the timings, as i got in fact 81ns latency on aida.


----------



## papasteack

...Little news...My memory is in fact gskill ripjaw 12800CL7, and is now running at 2400Mhz CAS11, with some not so bad timings, TCWL 8, 11-12-11-26-33, but 1T and trfc 160 ! Memtest runned ok. The bad NB memory controller, even at 2000mhz now with 1,3V, gives me not better than 71ns latency on AIDA64.
Does anyone know how much voltage can be pushed on NB without so much risk ?


----------



## papasteack

And now, i've finished X4-860k tuning with received rajintek ereboss tower fan :vcore1,37V idle-1,43V loaded for 4,5Ghz and VRM temp are now lower since pcb no more take cpu heat : heatsink measured at around 50°C full load. (22°C ambiant). Very happy of this 860k. I think that if it were a full a10-7850k, with gpu onboard i couldn't expect such a overclock on air cooling, and i suspect that VRM heatsink of the a88x extreme 6+ could'nt wistand it.
(sorry for aproximative english !!!)


----------



## Themisseble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *papasteack*
> 
> And now, i've finished X4-860k tuning with received rajintek ereboss tower fan :vcore1,37V idle-1,43V loaded for 4,5Ghz and VRM temp are now lower since pcb no more take cpu heat : heatsink measured at around 50°C full load. (22°C ambiant). Very happy of this 860k. I think that if it were a full a10-7850k, with gpu onboard i couldn't expect such a overclock on air cooling, and i suspect that VRM heatsink of the a88x extreme 6+ could'nt wistand it.
> (sorry for aproximative english !!!)


YOu can go higher...


----------



## papasteack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Themisseble*
> 
> YOu can go higher...


Case open, without any problem, but when closed, running crysis3, and so using both hd7950 in crossfire, it makes too much heat to extract and too much noise, probably because some of the hot air from gpu goes to cpu fan. And for the moment, ambiant air is only at 22°C, whereas is summer it will be sometime at 38°C...


----------



## vachoi

1- http://www.4shared.com/download/E4N6_ncuba/PHOTO_20140930_183158.jpg?lgfp=1000
2- http://www.4shared.com/download/9AZk2q2bce/PHOTO_20140930_183249.jpg?lgfp=1000
3- http://www.4shared.com/download/ft-0KZqTce/PHOTO_20140930_183305.jpg?lgfp=1000
4- http://www.4shared.com/download/CTNY6nWsce/PHOTO_20140930_183320.jpg?lgfp=1000

These are my settings. What can I change for more stability.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djohny24*
> 
> Can you guys post your Luxmark socre please? OpenCL GPU + CPU


Here my 7700K with 14.9 WHQL drivers (14.301):

CPU Stock (throttling disabled), GPU 1028MHz, RAM 2400MHz DC/SR:

Simple

Mediuml

Complex


Then I updated to the new 14.41 with OpenCL 2.0 support, and scores go lower








*
(14.301 OpenCL 1.2 / 14.41 OpenCL 2.0)* (Medium Test)
CPU Only
 
GPU Only
 
CPU+GPU
 

Also, *Dolphin Benchmark* (with 7850K frequencies: 3700MHz base, 3800/3900/4000 turbo states)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vachoi*
> 
> 1- http://www.4shared.com/download/E4N6_ncuba/PHOTO_20140930_183158.jpg?lgfp=1000
> 2- http://www.4shared.com/download/9AZk2q2bce/PHOTO_20140930_183249.jpg?lgfp=1000
> 3- http://www.4shared.com/download/ft-0KZqTce/PHOTO_20140930_183305.jpg?lgfp=1000
> 4- http://www.4shared.com/download/CTNY6nWsce/PHOTO_20140930_183320.jpg?lgfp=1000
> 
> These are my settings. What can I change for more stability.


At stock settings or are you overclocking?

If you have stabilitiy issues with ram at 2400MHz, you can try giving VDDNB a +0.025/0.05v offset. And maybe rising the APU1.2v voltage.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Then I updated to the new 14.41 with OpenCL 2.0 support, and scores go lower


Hmm. about 8% slower for Medium, GPU-only. That's a big enough gap that it can't be dismissed out of hand as statistical noise. Did you try multiple runs with the new driver to see if there's variation in results? Ditto for the old driver.

edit: removed non-sequitor inserted by editor from an old post of mine, ***?


----------



## wrtIAp

I just wanted to ask whether overcloking the iGPU has any use at all? From what I've seen, my performance is directly proportional to the memory frequency. (I've tried 900MHz and 720MHz and have seen no difference at all)


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> I just wanted to ask whether overcloking the iGPU has any use at all? From what I've seen, my performance is directly proportional to the memory frequency. (I've tried 900MHz and 720MHz and have seen no difference at all)


It does, I am running a A10 7850K /R7 250 dual graphics and running the IGPU at 1100 moves the performance level up more than a full next model card.

This is running 2133Mhz CL 9 memory at stock


----------



## wrtIAp

hm.. interesting. Thanks for your input though! I'm probably doing something wrong anyway


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> hm.. interesting. Thanks for your input though! I'm probably doing something wrong anyway


not necessarily .

If you want to send me your setup/settings, I can try to help if you want. Include what programs you are trying to run as well.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> It does, I am running a A10 7850K /R7 250 dual graphics and running the IGPU at 1100 moves the performance level up more than a full next model card.
> 
> This is running 2133Mhz CL 9 memory at stock


What are your bios setting for everything lol, if you dont mind, I have trouble with anything but stock on my setup using the msi utility. I have to rma by r7 250 but it looks like saphhire isnt going to do it. So I am out of luck on dual graphics.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> It does, I am running a A10 7850K /R7 250 dual graphics and running the IGPU at 1100 moves the performance level up more than a full next model card.
> 
> This is running 2133Mhz CL 9 memory at stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are your bios setting for everything lol, if you dont mind, I have trouble with anything but stock on my setup using the msi utility. I have to rma by r7 250 but it looks like saphhire isnt going to do it. So I am out of luck on dual graphics.
Click to expand...

Why won't Sapphire RMA?

anyway I will send you my Bios images running @ 4.6Ghz. The problem you are having may well be a BIOS setting.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Why won't Sapphire RMA?
> anyway I will send you my Bios images running @ 4.6Ghz. The problem you are having may well be a BIOS setting.


They use athlonmicro for some RMA's and I have been bugging them for over a week with no response after my rma paerwork was submitted. So I have no hope in getting it fixed. Thank you I appreciate the help with bios settings.


----------



## DannyDK

4.6ghz? I know that it can go that high have done it my self, but someone stated in here that everything past 4.5 didnt make any difference in his bench score, so i would like to know whether or not it makes a difference past 4.5.


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Why won't Sapphire RMA?
> anyway I will send you my Bios images running @ 4.6Ghz. The problem you are having may well be a BIOS setting.
> 
> 
> 
> They use athlonmicro for some RMA's and I have been bugging them for over a week with no response after my rma paerwork was submitted. So I have no hope in getting it fixed. Thank you I appreciate the help with bios settings.
Click to expand...

Best of luck to you dude, I've heard some horror stories about how Athlon Micro does things and it usually doesn't end well. Athlon Micro is the #1 reason I won't buy anything from Sapphire, not worth the risk in my opinion.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Best of luck to you dude, I've heard some horror stories about how Athlon Micro does things and it usually doesn't end well. Athlon Micro is the #1 reason I won't buy anything from Sapphire, not worth the risk in my opinion.


Thanks I am finding this out, no wonder a bunch of their cards are cheaper than other manufacturers. Not impressed at all.


----------



## H0ll0wCr0wn

Anything changes for a10-7850k in 14.9 driver?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> 4.6ghz? I know that it can go that high have done it my self, but someone stated in here that everything past 4.5 didnt make any difference in his bench score, so i would like to know whether or not it makes a difference past 4.5.


Yawa encountered performance stagnation at clocks above 4.5 ghz, but flank3r showed some positive results at 4.7 ghz with a 7850K using board (Crossblade Ranger) newer than Yawa's.

There are so few reports of people running Kaveri above 4.5 ghz that there isn't a large body of evidence pointing in either direction.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> 4.6ghz? I know that it can go that high have done it my self, but someone stated in here that everything past 4.5 didnt make any difference in his bench score, so i would like to know whether or not it makes a difference past 4.5.
> 
> 
> 
> Yawa encountered performance stagnation at clocks above 4.5 ghz, but flank3r showed some positive results at 4.7 ghz with a 7850K using board (Crossblade Ranger) newer than Yawa's.
> 
> There are so few reports of people running Kaveri above 4.5 ghz that there isn't a large body of evidence pointing in either direction.
Click to expand...

 A couple things.

1)A lot of it is about the game you are running.

2) APU's are very memory speed sensitive so faster Ram speed makes a big difference.

3) bumping your IGPU makes a big difference as well. I run mine at 1140Mhz and it takes the performance up over the next model up.

I am running my 7850K at 4.7 as well and as long as you have memory of 1866 or better it scales as far as you can take it.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

I must say this was my first and last AMD system, I have rma'd every component and still have stability issues at stock , drivers for motherboard and the video card are horrible, games constantly crash , this was a horrible experience overall, if I can manage to sell this piece of crap it's back to Intel for me.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> I must say this was my first and last AMD system, I have rma'd every component and still have stability issues at stock , drivers for motherboard and the video card are horrible, games constantly crash , this was a horrible experience overall, if I can manage to sell this piece of crap it's back to Intel for me.


I'm sorry you have had such a rough go of it. However since you posted this in a open forum I have to tell you that the odds of

Quote:


> I have rma'd every component and still have stability issues at stock


every component being faulty is astronomical. I build a new (and the most graphically complicated) 'Quadfire' machine for my own use every 9-12 months and continue to get terrific performance from even the RC's while running multi-monitor and hi res setups.

My point is that if everything is not working, the overwhelming odds are in favor of an error(s) involving other issues (possibly BIOS entries/settings) and not the components. In fact the last time I tackled a problem that was described as yours, the house's electrical delivery was under volted.

As anecdotal as this may be, I have been building AMD and Intel systems for 20 years and not ever have I had every component be faulty.Or for that matter had more problems with one companies components or drivers.

Best of luck with the new build.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

I agree with you 100%, I have used 4 different bios revisions, 2 cpus, 2 sets on ram and even a 3rd set of gskill ram, 2 mobos and with everything plain and as low as possible, nothing will run stable. I have tired 4 power supplies and about 10 monitors and hds. Anything I could think of. I am not happy in the least bit with this build, which I was hoping to be completely happy with its performance.

Any idea why dual graphics doesnt show up in CCC anymore on the newest whql driver?


----------



## warpuck

If the the next APU AMD releases is compatable with the Bonaire video, I don't see much sense in building any other intel or AMD system. That is unless you want brag about how much you spent.

A10 set up here with the R7 card gets close to my 8350/ HD7870OC/Sabertooth r1 system in games and they are playable. $220 + $320and $190 for the mobo

The most of the online reviews all say they do better with 2133 or whatever the max speed the mobo can handle. Reality check this is a $179 processor and 1600 mhz ram? What don't have $20-40 more for 2400/2133 the RAM?

Better to match that slower RAM with a 4 or 6 core am3+ and a bonaire card or a 860K FM2 and bonaire card.

I came close to building a A10 as a backup. But then I remembered I still got this 960T in the drawer. That, and buy a 4+1 mobo and a Bonaire is more than enough for the olde lady to play candy crush at 60 FPS.


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> I agree with you 100%, I have used 4 different bios revisions, 2 cpus, 2 sets on ram and even a 3rd set of gskill ram, 2 mobos and with everything plain and as low as possible, nothing will run stable. I have tired 4 power supplies and about 10 monitors and hds. Anything I could think of. I am not happy in the least bit with this build, which I was hoping to be completely happy with its performance.
> 
> Any idea why dual graphics doesnt show up in CCC anymore on the newest whql driver?


Was it just the dual graphics you couldn't get stable or what other issues were you having? Post your parts and bios settings and we'll see if we can help you because like what the other guy said I can't see all of those parts being defective simultaneously, the odds really are astronomical.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Wicked_Bass*
> 
> I agree with you 100%, I have used 4 different bios revisions, 2 cpus, 2 sets on ram and even a 3rd set of gskill ram, 2 mobos and with everything plain and as low as possible, nothing will run stable. I have tired 4 power supplies and about 10 monitors and hds. Anything I could think of. I am not happy in the least bit with this build, which I was hoping to be completely happy with its performance.
> 
> Any idea why dual graphics doesnt show up in CCC anymore on the newest whql driver?
> 
> 
> 
> Was it just the dual graphics you couldn't get stable or what other issues were you having? Post your parts and bios settings and we'll see if we can help you because like what the other guy said I can't see all of those parts being defective simultaneously, the odds really are astronomical.
Click to expand...

 I am the other guy and reloadin makes a good point. A single unnoticed or faulty BIOS setting can destabilize the works. If for example your computer defaults your memory timings incorrectly (not uncommon) then nothing will work correctly and cause constant crashes. If it defaults to T1 when it is supposed to be T2, same thing.

The whole machine is a weakest link scenario. The dual graphics not showing up I would wager is caused by it not being enabled in the BIOS/and or the primary GPU designated incorrectly.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

So started from scratch last night because I was bored and was drinking. So pulled everything out and upgraded to the newest BIOS 1.3 and cleared the cmos. Set memory timings and voltage by hand. Installed R7 250 and disabled the IGD. Installed windows and all the correct drivers but used the 14.9.1 Beta catalyst. After testing all evening with no issues, which was a big surprise. I went into the Bios and enable the igd and dual graphics with 1gig of ram allocated to the IGD. Booted into windows and dual graphics came up immediately. Enabled it and ran some stress tests and 3dmark for a few hours and everything is stable as far as I can tell right now.

I am now thinking that Bios 1.2 and the 14.9 drivers were possible not liking each other, which I am not a programmer so I dont know how that could happen. I even had issues with bios 1.2 and 14.9 on just the R7 250 and pulled that out and just ran the A10.

Any thoughts from you guys that have been trying to help me?

Thank you for the insight I appreciate it!


----------



## DannyDK

Anyone know for a 100% certenty that you can use a HD7750 card in dual with the 7850K and how about the RAM should/must they be DDR3?


----------



## iceman595

What i want to know is if you have a dedicated gpu, is there any performance increase when the igpu is overclocked if only using dgpu.

Looking to get a 290/x seeing as how the prices have dropped so drastically.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> What i want to know is if you have a dedicated gpu, is there any performance increase when the igpu is overclocked if only using dgpu.
> 
> Looking to get a 290/x seeing as how the prices have dropped so drastically.


Yes, the IGPU and discrete card are only combined when using a Dual Graphics compatible card. If you get a 290x it will be either or.


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Sorry tried going threw the thread to find out, couldn't find anything

What are max safe vcore and nbridge and igpu voltage to run these 7850k at?

Thanks


----------



## DannyDK

I run mine at 4.4ghz cpu - 960mhz igpu - 2ghz nb with 1.45 and 1.35 volts


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I run mine at 4.4ghz cpu - 960mhz igpu - 2ghz nb with 1.45 and 1.35 volts


Thank you


----------



## iceman595

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Yes, the IGPU and discrete card are only combined when using a Dual Graphics compatible card. If you get a 290x it will be either or.


i understand that part but will there be any performance difference between the igpu oc'd or not when not running the igpu

leaving it oc'd once i get a card


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman595*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> Yes, the IGPU and discrete card are only combined when using a Dual Graphics compatible card. If you get a 290x it will be either or.
> 
> 
> 
> i understand that part but will there be any performance difference between the igpu oc'd or not when not running the igpu
> 
> leaving it oc'd once i get a card
Click to expand...

nope. when using a non comp DGPU card, the IGPU is bypassed and only the 290x is used. just OC the CPU


----------



## DannyDK

Sorry, its 1.50 volts for the cpu


----------



## Red1776

Hey gang,

Cooler Master has got involved in the A10 7850K 'Transporter' build of the AMD High Performance Project' and sent me a Nepton 280L for the Build.









*The A10 7850K/R7250 Dual Graphics 'Transporter' Build*



Running @ 4.7Ghz Currently, going for 5.0Ghz with the 280L









Join the 'Red Screw Performance Club" today 

The AMD HPP can be found at:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1473361/amd-high-performance-project-by-red1776


----------



## 1stVeteran

Hey guys i am new here.
I have build my a10-7850k system a month ago and everything runs smooth.

145 a10-7850k black edition (iGPU @1028 or cpu @ 4.1 and iGPU @ ~924)
52 bitFenix Shinobi
62 Seasonic S12II Bronze 620W
153 4x4gb Team Zeus gold (oc. @ 2400)
95 asus a88x pro
71 Seagate Desktop SSHD 1T (redcoon)
33 Cooler Hyper T4
90 crucial mx-100 256b
11 sharkoon SilentEagel 120mm

ca. 710€

the only "problem" i have is that cpu-Z shows me that my ram (i overclocked it manually to 2400 mhz)
seems to run with only half the speed 1200mhz...

does anybody else have this issue as well.


----------



## akromatic

has anyone successfully crossfire the GDDR5 R250 with the 7850k?

is it true that you can hybrid crossfire with the 290x?


----------



## 1stVeteran

@akromatic: as far as i know nobody was able to achiev any of this.


----------



## ArcAudios

1stVeteran,
Your RAM is running just the way it should do. 1200Mhz is 2400Mhz at Double Data Rate. Always will read like that, you need to double it to correctly see what you are running. You are fine.
Regards


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1stVeteran*
> 
> @akromatic: as far as i know nobody was able to achiev any of this.


what so no gddr5 250 crossfire?

kinda weird because i accidentally managed it once but never again, also means i wasted money on a useless card

btw how do i tell if my ram is single or dual rank? the label doesnt indicate 1R or 2R and the heatspreader prevents me to physically inspecting not that it is a reliable method

the ram i got is the 8GB gskill ripjaw z kit


----------



## 1stVeteran

@ArcAudios: thx for the fast reply.

I already thought about getting a other set of ram (some of the mobos compability list)
but i also would had to change the cooler (would have gone under water: seidon 120V)


----------



## Wicked_Bass

@ akromatic: I have been crossfiring with a sapphire r7 250 with 1gb gddr5 for a month or better, works really well once I got it up and running. Using the 14.9 drivers, it's kinda weird. I had to install apu and drivers then install gpu and disable apu in bios, then boot into windows with gpu only then , back to bios enable apu and dual graphics with 1gig of ram, boot into Windows and boom dual graphics enabled automatically in catalyst cc and been smooth sailing ever since.


----------



## akromatic

it seemed so convoluted to get dual GPU working. i've been trying different combos but no go so i guess there is a specific route to follow for it to work

what about bios settings?


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> what so no gddr5 250 crossfire?
> 
> kinda weird because i accidentally managed it once but never again, also means i wasted money on a useless card
> 
> btw how do i tell if my ram is single or dual rank? the label doesnt indicate 1R or 2R and the heatspreader prevents me to physically inspecting not that it is a reliable method
> 
> the ram i got is the 8GB gskill ripjaw z kit


Yes you can do dual graphics with a R7 250 GDDR5 (Oland, not the 250X or 250E based on Cape-Verde). Be sure you set the Dual Graphics option in BIOS as Enabled (in Advanced Options).

And about single-ranked or dual-ranked, the safest way is checking with AIDA64. If you can't test it before buy it, you can check if they are single or dual side (but there are some dual side modules which are single rank). And if the rams have heatsinks, you still can see resistances and capacitors near the contacts:



Source: http://www.overclock.net/t/1268061/ocn-ram-addict-club-gallery

I wish I had known this before I bought mine, they are single side/rank







. But I bought them by internet, and they couldn't open the blister and check...


----------



## Wicked_Bass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> it seemed so convoluted to get dual GPU working. i've been trying different combos but no go so i guess there is a specific route to follow for it to work what about bios settings?


Took me a week or so to get it working, I found disabling the igpu and running the gpu alone and then entering the bios to enable the igpu and dual graphics was the best way for me, when I booted up Windows dual graphics popped right up and I enabled it and I have had zero issues since I did it this way,
installing the gpu and enabling the bios for dual graphics then back into Windows gave me too many blue screens and stability issues


----------



## TinoArg

Did anyone try setting the same CPU speed for all the P-States to avoid throttling while GPU loading?

I've tried, but even if power consumption with CPU+GPU stressed is lower than with CPU stressed only, temps are higher. If I set CPU at 3.7GHz temp goes to hell in seconds.

Here I did a comparisson stressing different things, with my 7700K and my new board FM2A88X-ITX+ (it needs VRM heatsinks urgently).

CPU set with 7850K P-States and sightly undervolted, NB at 2000MHz, GPU at 1028MHz (+0.2v), and mems @ 2400MHz XMP 10-12-12-34-1T with 1.65v.

*Temps:*
Idle: 38°C APU and 43°C Chipset
Full (CPU+GPU): 56°C APU and 52°C Chipset.
Ambient: Around 25~30°C.

*Power consumption:*
CPU Full (Turbo ON): ~105W (CPU between 3800MHz and 4000MHz, GPU a 350MHz). 120W peak at the beginning.
CPU Full (Turbo OFF): ~85W (CPU at 3.7GHz, GPU a 350MHz)
CPU + GPU Full: ~75W (CPU at 3GHz, GPU at 1028MHz)
GPU Full: ~55W (CPU at 1600MHz, GPU at 1028MHz)
Idle: ~35W (CPU at 1600MHz, GPU at 350MHz)


----------



## 1stVeteran

@TinoArg: Is that the Powerconsumption of the APU only or the whole system.
could you redo the test with a oc, lets say 4,1 or 4,4ghz (thats the speed im going for after i put in a dGPU)

as you might have seen I am using a way too big psu for my build so it depends on the coming generation of AMDs GPU and their power consumption if im using crossfire or not.


----------



## zeusz4u

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know why I'm getting random lockups on my computer from time-to-time? While under load it runs fine (OC CPU to 4 GHz, iGPU to 1028MHz), tried with stress testing software (for couple of hours), also tried during gaming, everything runs just fine. Then suddenly while idle sometimes I find my computer locked up and unresponsive, and have to do a hard reset. This happens when I either have a screen saver turned on or off, but not on a daily basis, it's still very annoying when you have not saved your work and lose it... Not sure what is causing it, but I suspect it may be caused by the overclock. The system logs show no problems when I check them after the hard reset.


----------



## drmrlordx

Failures of that nature are difficult to diagnose. I have not experienced that while tuning my 7700k system, which is pretty close to a 7850k (just fewer GCN cores). Lockups during idle imply that the CPU may be having problems with sleep states or p-states. Have you tried disabling power-saving features?


----------



## zeusz4u

Every power saving feature is off... sometimes this might happen even during browsing the internet or some stuff like that.
I know it's hard to diagnose, and it's occurrence is completely random. If I want to reproduce it, I will probably fail...

I was wondering if anyone owns and overclocks on the AsRock FM2 A88X Extreme4+ motherboard and what are the most suitable overclock settings for the A10-7850K APU.

Do you guys know if the power saving features also affect the Radeon Cores, if I don't overclock the CPU and leave everything on Auto mode (TurboCore, APM, C6, Cool'n'Quiet), and only overclock the NB and the iGPU? I don't quite know how related the CPU and iGPU really are besides sharing the same die.


----------



## Pionir

AMD Catalyst Omega driver
A Very Special Edition Driver: AMD Catalyst Omega

http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/12/08/a-very-special-edition-driver-amd-catalyst-omega
http://www.overclock.net/t/1528550/techspot-amd-catalyst-omega-drivers
Quote:


> The AMD Catalyst software suite is engineered to unlock new capabilities in AMD APUs and AMD Radeon GPUs based on GCN architecture. Download the latest update, the AMD Catalyst Omega driver, for enhanced performance, reliability, and energy efficiency - with no extra cost:
> Early buyers of an AMD Radeon R9 290X who download and install AMD Catalyst Omega today can realize up to 19% faster gameplay with Civilization: Beyond Earth
> Users of AMD's advanced APUs like the A10 7850K can achieve up to 29% faster gaming performance with Batman: Arkham Origins


----------



## SuperHiro

I just want to add this to the mixing pot thread of Kaveri overclocks. This is the highest, stable, geekbench score I achieved. http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1469603

This is on an MSI A88XM Gaming v1.3 bios, A10-7850K revision KV-A1 (bought it Jan as soon as it released) clocked to 4.4ghz with voltage set to auto on an H80i, NB @ 2000mhz +0.2V, Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Ridgeback 2133 @ 10-12-12-28-40, PowerColor TurboDuo R9 270 @ 1050/1455.

Unigine Valley score of 1648 in Extreme mode.

Edit: I lied, I managed to squeeze out more juice from the orange peels by changing the ram clocks to 1833 @ 9-11-11-25-35
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1473861

I'm going to play with reducing the timings further at 1833 since 1833 has been more stable than 2133 on the MSI A88XM Gaming

What I don't understand is why would I achieve a higher benchmark with slower ram?


----------



## RabbitRu

I think it is something specific related to your ram, I run my hynix on 2400mhz and I achived higher score in geekbench http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/455796
My mobo is Asus A88XM-Plus


----------



## SuperHiro

II'll look into pushing my Mushkin to 2400mhz but even 2133mhz was hard on my board even if the ram was designed for 2133. Finally got a stable 4.5ghz +0.08v, 2000mhz NB +0.08v, 2133mhz @ 10-12-12-28-40

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1535709

My single core scores are going up but I'm hitting a wall at 8000~ points multi core.


----------



## drg0ku

Hello,
This is the first time I am posting in this forum. I have read this thread top to bottom before overclocking my a10-7850k.
I am new to pc building and this will be my first build. So please bear with me as I seek help. My setup is as follows
A10-7850k
Fm2a88x-itx+ mini itx board.
Gskill ripjaws x 2133mhz cl9.
2 year old silverstone 500w psu.
Elite 130 Mini itx case.

I will add a discrete gpu, a pcs+ r9 290x, to the build in a few weeks so I don't intend to overclock the igpu to the limits. I pushed the ram to 2496mhz at 104 base clock. At 2520 - 105x24 hdd error appears and the os won't boot. Is 2496mhz the max for this ram?
My nb can't go beyond 18x - 1872mhz. If I try 19x - 1976, at 1.3v nb the pc freezes at bios screen. At 1.4v windows boots but I get bsod when benching. I realize heat could be an issue since am only using stock coolers with open case. Would a h80i improve my nb overclocking abilities? I researched on chipset coolers and was wondering whether snugging a 40mm fan on the chipset heatsink in addition to a h80i could help in nb overclocking? I think it would fit in my mobo even with the 290x.
BTW, I have set the cpu multiplier to 35x for now to help with the heating issue until I get the h80i.
Could you guys offer some guidance with pushing my nb and ram higher.


----------



## TinoArg

Welcome drg0ku!. For higher blcks (more than 105MHz) you should set your SATA controller in IDE mode, not AHCI nor RAID.

But anyway, I hit a wall with rams at more than 2500, and is not my RAMs the problem (TridentX 2400CL10, they could do 2666~2800 easily), I think the problem is the IMC (memory controller).

And the NB is integrated into the APU. The chipset behind the small heatsink is the SB. I recommend you to put a fan (you can use the 70mm PWM fan from the stock heatsink) blowing air into the mosfets/VRM (since they don't have a heatsink and are half covered with the WiFi card), especially if you put a H60, because the airflow is going to be indirect. That could help to better overcloking of the CPU, NB and better life for the motherboard.

@1stVeteran: Sorry, I didn't see your post. It's only the APU power consumption (I think the whole system should be around ~30W more). You can check that with AIDA64 in modern processors.
And I can't test higher than that, I have the APU in a 6L case with a 220W PSU, a custom heatsink and very little airflow. But anyway I couldn't see any improvement in games by overclocking the CPU, so I left it only with 7850K stock frequencies. I also tried raising the throttling P-State (5) from 2.8GHz to 3.4~3.7GHz, and that only adds heat, not extra FPS.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Welcome drg0ku!. I hit a wall with rams at more than 2500, and is not my RAMs the problem (TridentX 2400CL10, they could do 2666~2800 easily), I think the problem is the IMC (memory controller).
> 
> A


I also hit a wall at 2500 with the trident rams, but not with kingston ram, those i can get up to 2800(in my intel build and only if using two sticks). I believe its the ram that doesnt wnt to go past 2500 as i have tried them in both my builds with same result. Go for some kingston hyperx (the blue ones with the big heatsink) if you wanna go past 2500


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Welcome drg0ku!. For higher blcks (more than 105MHz) you should set your SATA controller in IDE mode, not AHCI nor RAID.
> 
> But anyway, I hit a wall with rams at more than 2500, and is not my RAMs the problem (TridentX 2400CL10, they could do 2666~2800 easily), I think the problem is the IMC (memory controller).
> 
> And the NB is integrated into the APU. The chipset behind the small heatsink is the SB. I recommend you to put a fan (you can use the 70mm PWM fan from the stock heatsink) blowing air into the mosfets/VRM (since they don't have a heatsink and are half covered with the WiFi card), especially if you put a H60, because the airflow is going to be indirect. That could help to better overcloking of the CPU, NB and better life for the motherboard.


Thank you TinoArg. I will try the nb cooling as you have suggested.
Just to confirm, in the image below the portion in the yellow box is the Southbridge and the portion within the red box is the Northbridge. Sorry if my question sounds elementary.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I also hit a wall at 2500 with the trident rams, but not with kingston ram, those i can get up to 2800(in my intel build and only if using two sticks). I believe its the ram that doesnt wnt to go past 2500 as i have tried them in both my builds with same result. Go for some kingston hyperx (the blue ones with the big heatsink) if you wanna go past 2500


At the moment I don't want to switch out of my gskill rams. If it is just the lack of better heat sinks on them maybe I could try a more powerful fan pulling the hot air from the ram surface and see if I can break past 2500mhz. This week I will try what TinoArg suggested with the sata controller mode and also add more powerful side fans near the rams.


----------



## SuperHiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drg0ku*
> 
> Thank you TinoArg. I will try the nb cooling as you have suggested.
> Just to confirm, in the image below the portion in the yellow box is the Southbridge and the portion within the red box is the Northbridge. Sorry if my question sounds elementary.




You're right about the yellow box but on our apu's, the northbridge is located on the apu die itself so disregard the red box. The green box that I drew is the VRM's with 3 being covered by the wifi card. You'll want to heatsink and fan these.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperHiro*
> 
> You're right about the yellow box but on our apu's, the northbridge is located on the apu die itself so disregard the red box. The green box that I drew is the VRM's with 3 being covered by the wifi card. You'll want to heatsink and fan these.


Oh thank you. I got it wrong.
With the lack of screws for the heatsinks I should be getting a thermal paste rather than a thermal compound, shouldn't I?


----------



## SuperHiro

Honestly, I never done it myself since I always picked up boards with a heatsink on the vrms already but the common recommendation I hear often is to pick something like this up.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708011

You'll want to measure one vrm and pick the appropriate heatsink size. Those heatsinks come with 3M thermal tape, which is what you'll need since there is no real place to secure the heatsinks. Then just place a fan in their direction along with a fan on the southbridge and you're all gravy.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperHiro*
> 
> Honestly, I never done it myself since I always picked up boards with a heatsink on the vrms already but the common recommendation I hear often is to pick something like this up.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708011
> 
> You'll want to measure one vrm and pick the appropriate heatsink size. Those heatsinks come with 3M thermal tape, which is what you'll need since there is no real place to secure the heatsinks. Then just place a fan in their direction along with a fan on the southbridge and you're all gravy.


Thank you for the explanation. I have removed the WiFi card now. I don't use them anyway and would give me the space to heatsink this area. If the black blocks are the vrms what are those whitish gray blocks (6 in number) next to the vrm blocks? I have noticed both these black and gray blocks getting pretty hot after I crank up the nb voltage.

Also, I have found these copper heatsinks that are of ideal width but longer and covering 3 blocks each. Does it matter that one heatsink should cover only one block each?


----------



## drg0ku

Okay. I have since learnt that the black blocks are mosfets and the grey ones are the vrms and I need to heat sink all of them.
Next step is to wedge a fan of ideal size in there to blow on these heatsinks.


----------



## drg0ku

This is where I have put the heatsinks.

Hopefully they are at the right place. I cannot change it anymore without dismantling everything.


----------



## drg0ku

Separately, I have been facing an odd issue after upgrading to windows 8.1 core. My bios settings for bclk, Ram frequency and ram latency are not being used in the os. Only the cpu and nb multiplier are being carried over from the bios. This was not the case when I was using Windows 7 professional. Anybody faced the same issue?
My ram is set to 2496 at custom latencies in bios. In the os my ram is running only at 1333mhz and also at 1T and with some weird latencies that are different and actually tighter than even the stock ones. My bclk is set to 104 at bios but is running at 100 in os. I am using amd overdrive and cpuz to verify this. Benchmarks have also come down reflecting the significantly slower ram.
Oddly, even at the bios home page my ram is shown running slower at 1333mhz. Even if it was os issue how can the bios suddenly change behavior with the os upgrade. I changed nothing except the os upgrade and switch to ssd. Motherboard bios is the same and even the exact same settings.
I am using asrock fm2a88x-itx+, 2.50 bios version with Windows 8.1. Everything worked with Windows 7.


----------



## THUMPer1

I have two APU systems. Both use the GA-F2A88XM-D3H. One is 7700k, and the other is 7850k. I can't overclock the iGPU. I assume it's locked in the BIOS, even though you can change it. Does anyone have any insight into this? Will Gigabyte release a new BIOS to unlock it like some boards that had F4a released?


----------



## arcneis12

Hi guys,

I'm just new here although I have been reading this thread for over a week.

I have the same problem and I followed how you stabilized your systems and tried with mine but to no avail. I still am getting crashes while playing.
I badly need help. I want to run my system with 2400MHz RAM while I wait for my GTX 970 though I would still want to run my system with 2400MHz after I get my GTX 970.
I've been through a lot researching but have not found substantial info besides this one with getting A10-7850K run with a 2400MHz RAM.

My plan is to disable the IGD after I get my video card and leave the system at default cpu clock, disable the IGD and leave my system running with 2400MHz.
Yet for now I would love to have my system run at default CPU clock, 1000MHz IGD clock like you guys have stable and 2400MHz RAM.

Here's my system:

CPU: AMD A10-7850K
RAM: F3-2400C10D-8GZH (XMP Profile Ready, no AMD profile sadly)
BIOS: F8
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1. Sniper A88X
Graphics: AMD R7 Graphics (Integrated Graphics Display)
Storage: Samsung 840 Evo 120Gb MZ-7TE120BW
WD Caviar Blue 500Gb WD5000AAKX
Toshiba 320Gb MK3261GSYN (in an enclosure USB 2.0)
ODD: LiteOn ATAPI iHAS124
PSU: Cooler Master 620W ThunderM Modular 85% efficiency
Display: AOC E2370Sh
Audio: Edifier R101PF
OS: Win7 SP1 x64 Ultimate (updated)
Drivers: Updated
CCC: Latest Omega Driver from AMD

Pardon my being too elaborate, I am completely frustrated that I can't run my RAM at it's advertised speed and timings and voltage without getting any crashes.
I knew at native 7850K only supports 2133MHz and you need to OC to get 2400MHz.

I used Medusa's settings at IGD clock at 1000MHz, NB frequency at 2000MHz, NB Core +0.072, I used XMP Profile (tried using manual as well), DRAM voltage at 1.67v (I tried the default at 1.65v as well)
and my system keeps crashing.

PS I'm new to overclocking.

Hope somebody can help me get my system running at default CPU clock, IGD clock either 1000MHz or 1028MHz and my RAM at 2400MHz.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drg0ku*
> 
> Separately, I have been facing an odd issue after upgrading to windows 8.1 core. My bios settings for bclk, Ram frequency and ram latency are not being used in the os. Only the cpu and nb multiplier are being carried over from the bios. This was not the case when I was using Windows 7 professional. Anybody faced the same issue?
> My ram is set to 2496 at custom latencies in bios. In the os my ram is running only at 1333mhz and also at 1T and with some weird latencies that are different and actually tighter than even the stock ones. My bclk is set to 104 at bios but is running at 100 in os. I am using amd overdrive and cpuz to verify this. Benchmarks have also come down reflecting the significantly slower ram.
> Oddly, even at the bios home page my ram is shown running slower at 1333mhz. Even if it was os issue how can the bios suddenly change behavior with the os upgrade. I changed nothing except the os upgrade and switch to ssd. Motherboard bios is the same and even the exact same settings.
> I am using asrock fm2a88x-itx+, 2.50 bios version with Windows 8.1. Everything worked with Windows 7.


Sorry. Disregard this. I found the issue. My overclocking had failed. The os warns before it starts-this was the cue but I had overlooked it. I reset the bios to default and did everything back from scratch. It now works.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arcneis12*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm just new here although I have been reading this thread for over a week.
> 
> I have the same problem and I followed how you stabilized your systems and tried with mine but to no avail. I still am getting crashes while playing.
> I badly need help. I want to run my system with 2400MHz RAM while I wait for my GTX 970 though I would still want to run my system with 2400MHz after I get my GTX 970.
> I've been through a lot researching but have not found substantial info besides this one with getting A10-7850K run with a 2400MHz RAM.
> 
> My plan is to disable the IGD after I get my video card and leave the system at default cpu clock, disable the IGD and leave my system running with 2400MHz.
> Yet for now I would love to have my system run at default CPU clock, 1000MHz IGD clock like you guys have stable and 2400MHz RAM.
> 
> Here's my system:
> 
> CPU: AMD A10-7850K
> RAM: F3-2400C10D-8GZH (XMP Profile Ready, no AMD profile sadly)
> BIOS: F8
> Motherboard: Gigabyte G1. Sniper A88X
> Graphics: AMD R7 Graphics (Integrated Graphics Display)
> Storage: Samsung 840 Evo 120Gb MZ-7TE120BW
> WD Caviar Blue 500Gb WD5000AAKX
> Toshiba 320Gb MK3261GSYN (in an enclosure USB 2.0)
> ODD: LiteOn ATAPI iHAS124
> PSU: Cooler Master 620W ThunderM Modular 85% efficiency
> Display: AOC E2370Sh
> Audio: Edifier R101PF
> OS: Win7 SP1 x64 Ultimate (updated)
> Drivers: Updated
> CCC: Latest Omega Driver from AMD
> 
> Pardon my being too elaborate, I am completely frustrated that I can't run my RAM at it's advertised speed and timings and voltage without getting any crashes.
> I knew at native 7850K only supports 2133MHz and you need to OC to get 2400MHz.
> 
> I used Medusa's settings at IGD clock at 1000MHz, NB frequency at 2000MHz, NB Core +0.072, I used XMP Profile (tried using manual as well), DRAM voltage at 1.67v (I tried the default at 1.65v as well)
> and my system keeps crashing.
> 
> PS I'm new to overclocking.
> 
> Hope somebody can help me get my system running at default CPU clock, IGD clock either 1000MHz or 1028MHz and my RAM at 2400MHz.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Hey arcenis, I will try to help if I can but I don't know much either. This is my first build too.
For the ram, it is unfortunate that yours doesn't work at the stated latencies and volts. First make sure you have the latest bios for your motherboard. Next, Did you try upping the nb to atleast 2000mhz before trying 2400 on ram? High nb is critical for ram. Make it the highest possible stable setup first. Go for 19x if 20x isn't stable. You probably need a good cooler to hit 20x by the way. Do one component Ocing at a time so you can root out the problem.
Once your nb is stable and high enough tgeb go for the ram. Start relaxing the timings on the ram by trail and error. Start by increasing the first 3 latencies by 1 each and the 4th latency by 3. Repeat this cycle until stable or you reach the maximum possible latency for the ram. You can also try to increase voltage to the ram if you are comfortable with it but don't go more than 0.5v beyond advertised stable voltage. Finally benchmark whether the ram you have overclocked by widening the timings gave any benefits over the slower setting with tighter timings. I personally used aida64. And also use memtest to chevk stability.
As for the igpu, since you are getting a dgpu, overclock it as the last piece once you have maxed out everything else. Igpu throttles your cpu, and you'll need max cpu power to take full advantage of the dgpu. Push everything else to the max. Ocing Nb igpu and cpu together will generate a lot of heat, so have to compromise on one or the other.


----------



## arcneis12

wow one of the most detailed posts I've ever read so far. Thanks so much.

I'll try that. But I have a clarification, by increasing the timings you mean by prolonging the time of the timings like from 10ms to 11ms or do you mean by 10ms to 9ms?

I guess to loosen is to add more time? to tighten is to subtract more time? I guess this will take hours before I get the system stable at 2400MHz. I'll keep in mind not to put the voltage beyond + 0.5v.

And yes I have set the NB freq to 2000MHz. I just don't know what's lacking why it would still crash.

In that case with the igpu I guess I shouldn't overclock it then and just stay with the default 720MHz.
I'm on a stock sink and would still probably take time before I get a decent closed loop cpu cooler.

If I set the NB frequency to 2000MHz will that automatically recognize 2400MHz? If I set the NB Freq at 2000MHz do I need to increase any voltage for the cpu or what like NB Core voltage (but if not mistaken that's for the igpu voltage right?
If my RAM runs at it's advertised speed at 2400MHz in an overclocked setting and not with an XMP profile will it generate more heat or will it still function as the same or generate heat the same as advertised?

Anyway I'll keep you posted and hope I could learn from you more and get my system running at 2400MHz.


----------



## drg0ku

Hi arcneis. Yes, by loosening I meant add more latency and tightening I meant decrease latency. Separately, in a given frequency, you will want the tightest possible time to get the best performance.
For the ram if you are within the stated voltage, I don't think ram heat will be an issue. I am not sure which ram you have, but if it is rated at 2400mhz it should have a darn good heatsink.
The major source of heat would be the cpu and the vrms. If you are at stock cooler maybe try to lower the nb to 19x. And do the ram overclocking. Maybe it's the nb that is causing the instability. For reference when I had stock cooler, I was running nb at 1896 mhz and couldn't get it past 1900. My ram was still running at 2496mhz and mine is rated only at 2133. The stock cooler isn't great.
Cpu nb/gfx voltage is the nb voltage. I guess in your motherboard nb core is the voltage is the igpu and nb voltage. If nb is not stable you have to increase this voltage. But I with a stock cooler increasing voltage is not recommended.
With an h80i I am presently running 2000mhz nb at 1.35v and 4.7ghz cpu at 1.45v.


----------



## DannyDK

Impressive how people need so little voltage for theire 7850k, if i wanna go for 4.5 i have to set it to 1.55 and some +15 offset. I now have it at 4.4 so that i "only" need 1.5 otherwise it gets so hot that my cooler master seidon 120 runs amok


----------



## drmrlordx

Just an FYI, but if you are having problems reaching particular memory clockspeeds, do not forget your secondary timings can limit you.

On my system, I had to increase tCWL to 13 or higher to get past DDR3-2400. You can't just max out your primaries and expect that to be enough.

So, if you really want to raise memory speeds:

Up your vdimm to about 1.7-1.72 ghz, though you may not need that much (don't forget to fix your vref voltages as well; they generally expect to be 1/2 your vdimm, at least according to my UEFI)
Max out all your primary AND secondary timings. Don't mess with the tertiary stuff like drive voltage/current.
Try to boot with your new memory speed. Then lower timings (start with your secondaries) but do not go below the timings listed in the profile for your RAM at the next-highest memory speed unless you're feeling ballsy. Reboot with each new setting to make sure it will still POST (obviously).

Also, be sure to make extensive use of memtest86+ to check settings to see if they are stable. Just because it boots doesn't mean it's going to be worth a darn. Keep a careful eye on tests #6 and #7. I have had a lot of stability issues stem from failures in those tests on Kaveri.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Impressive how people need so little voltage for theire 7850k, if i wanna go for 4.5 i have to set it to 1.55 and some +15 offset. I now have it at 4.4 so that i "only" need 1.5 otherwise it gets so hot that my cooler master seidon 120 runs amok


My 7700k takes 1.5125v to get stable at 4.7 ghz (20% LLC, @load vcore is closer to 1.52v), though it can handle linpack, y-cruncher, prime95, and just about anything else I throw at it. You have to consider that some reported clockspeed/voltage combos are not 100% stable, or even stress-tested. Some are. Also, some boards OC better than others. Anyone with the Crossblade Ranger is probably going to get better clockspeeds than you or I.

Also bear in mind that some boards sort-of throttle CPU performance beyond 4.5 ghz. I think the Extreme 6+ does, and there are probably many others. Being stable @ 4.7 ghz on a board like that is essentially meaningless since the CPU will be effectively stuck at 4.5 ghz or lower no matter what is the reported clockspeed.

I had somewhat-similar issues to yours, so I did a delid/relid to lower temps, which opened up some higher clockspeeds. Interestingly enough, it didn't do much to lower the voltage requirements for 4.5 ghz.


----------



## DannyDK

My problem is heat if i go for 4.5, the thermal margin would be around 15c and it begins throttle when under. I will check the net for delid/relid info, it may be the right thing for me to do


----------



## arcneis12

I have a RipjawsZ F3-2400C10D-8GZH.

I tried XMP Profile with 2400MHz 10-12-12-28 @ 1.65V with NBFreq at 2000MHz PC still crashed while playing.
My system crashes only when I stress it out with gaming or editing but with just browsing and doing normal stuff Office, youtube and everything else is okay. It doesn't crash. Just crashes when I play a game, runs smooth for the next 5-15mins then crashes. The longest I had it running was beyond 40 mins while playing a game at 1080p mid settings but I had overclocked my CPU and iGPU as well, I think it crashed due to the lack of a good cooling hardware.

Anyway going back, I'm currently testing again, XMP disabled with 2400MHz 11-11-11-28 @ 1.65V with NBFreq @ 2000MHz. See if it's gonna crash.

If it crashes I'll try next 2400MHz 11-13-13-31 @ 1.65V with NBFreq at 2000MHz, see if that works.

If it get some kinda stable might last long for an hour before it crashes. This might take a while. But I'm not entirely sure where the problem lies. I'm 100% positive, all my hardware are healthy. No problems when I was still using my old RAM which I just sold.
This new RAM I'm using is advertised to run @ 2400MHz 10-12-12-28 @ 1.65v but just wouldn't work.
Not sure if I had just gone with it's trident x counterpart, same specs with AMD Profile. I took RipjawsZ since my theme is black and green and putting red would make it look like christmas.


----------



## arcneis12

Got the system running while playing for about an hour.

Setting was 2400MHz 11-13-13-31 @ 1.69v @ 2000MHz NBFreq then it crashed.

Really getting frustrated... I really don't why I can't run it at it's advertised speed and latencies and voltage.

Going to underclock now at 2133MHz 9-11-10-28 @ 1.65v @ 1800MHz NBFreq (default) at its most stable.

Really frustrating having to have bought a 2400MHz thought the mobo mfg said it would support 2400MHz but couldn't run it.

If anyone can replicate my scenario and can have it working stable while playing games at 1080p and multi tasking (browser/Office/streaming/etc) without crashing for periods of time and can share their settings that would be great.
Or can further help out.


----------



## SuperHiro

I've ran into a similar problem but on my MSI board and Mushkin ram except for 2133mhz. My motherboard is capable of much faster ram clocks than 2133 and my Mushkin is rated for XMP 2133 @ 10-12-12-28-40 but I always run into stability issues. I've worked around it by going 1833 @ 9-11-11-25-35 and achieve the similar benchmarks. What I think is going on could be manufacturer compatibility issues, even after updating my BIOS to the latest version. Try running 2133 with tighter timings if you can't manage a stable 2400.

Edit: It's worth noting that on a dgpu I haven't experienced any performance loses but if you were to run on the igpu I'm sure you'll experience a slight loss as kaveri igpus apparently love highly clocked ram.


----------



## arcneis12

I understand, that's what's frustrating. You get a ram of 2400MHz, you know your mobo is more than capable of delivering that, all nice shiny hardware and it just won't work for some reason as advertised. I know only a few framerates would be a difference from 2400MHz and 2133MHz but hey a few increase in framerates and performance isn't so much bad if you'd really want it.

I'm limited so I can't really know whether the lack of a good cpu cooler is the problem, my timings on the ram, or what not. It's frustrating you can't even trust the XMP Profile.


----------



## drmrlordx

arcneis12, post your secondary timings please, along with every voltage setting your board has. Maybe we can get you through this.


----------



## drg0ku

You are right 4.7 is not a good oc to keep long term.
With a 4.7 I am able to benchmark comfortably but my thermal margins at idle are between 30 - 40 and load is around 15 to 20. With a 4.6 they are at 65 idle and at 4.5 it was at 70! 4.7 as you say may not be that stable. I might use it just for the benchmarking kicks and go back to 4.6 for normal gaming.
Interestingly was able to boot in once with a 4.8 at 1.55v briefly. I had enough time to open amd overdrive and the thermal margin was showing three and I quickly shut the computer down. Maybe if someone did the delidding and run these a10s on dry ice or something with an industrial strength exhaust fan we could see those 5ghzs.


----------



## drg0ku

I noticed a interesting trend when benchmarking on firestrike. I was running the a10-7850k 4.7ghz with a r9 290x and noticed that I did good on both graphic only tests and the cpu only physics test but the combined test score was spectacularly low. It wasn't just me, this was the case with all of the a10 results on the board. To confirm my theory I compared my results with results from older i5 2400 using the same 290x card. I5 2400s benched similar physics scores indicating comparable cpu strength with a 4.7ghz a10. They had lower graphics only scores but pulled ahead in the combined test scores. A sample comparison of my result with an i5 2500 result
A10-7850k with r9 290x
Graphics Test 1 60.06 fps
Graphics Test 2 45.62 fps
Physics Test 17.59 fps
Combined Test 12.5 fps

I5 2400 with r9 290x.
Graphics Test 1 54.81 fps
Graphics Test 2 40.98 fps
Physics Test 17.73 fps
Combined Test 18.92 fps

The apu was down 33% in fps eventhough the cpu only test showed comparable strength. I watched the graphs of my run. There was no cpu throttling. Cpu graph progression was exactly the same in both the physics test and the combined test. The cpu was always between 4.69 and 4.705.
Why is it that the a10 can perform well when running graphics only or cpu only tasks but can't do both together? Does this mean disabling physics in games could help with much better fps for the a10s in comparison to Intel?


----------



## Themisseble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drg0ku*
> 
> I noticed a interesting trend when benchmarking on firestrike. I was running the a10-7850k 4.7ghz with a r9 290x and noticed that I did good on both graphic only tests and the cpu only physics test but the combined test score was spectacularly low. It wasn't just me, this was the case with all of the a10 results on the board. To confirm my theory I compared my results with results from older i5 2400 using the same 290x card. I5 2400s benched similar physics scores indicating comparable cpu strength with a 4.7ghz a10. They had lower graphics only scores but pulled ahead in the combined test scores. A sample comparison of my result with an i5 2500 result
> A10-7850k with r9 290x
> Graphics Test 1 60.06 fps
> Graphics Test 2 45.62 fps
> Physics Test 17.59 fps
> Combined Test 12.5 fps
> 
> I5 2400 with r9 290x.
> Graphics Test 1 54.81 fps
> Graphics Test 2 40.98 fps
> Physics Test 17.73 fps
> Combined Test 18.92 fps
> 
> The apu was down 33% in fps eventhough the cpu only test showed comparable strength. I watched the graphs of my run. There was no cpu throttling. Cpu graph progression was exactly the same in both the physics test and the combined test. The cpu was always between 4.69 and 4.705.
> Why is it that the a10 can perform well when running graphics only or cpu only tasks but can't do both together? Does this mean disabling physics in games could help with much better fps for the a10s in comparison to Intel?


Look at Athlon x4 5350 .. look at puma+ .... look at FX 4300... Clock per clock - FPU - is the same performance. 4.5W TDP vs 25W TDP vs 95 W TDP. Go MMO like GW2/planet side puts shadows on... you will see how much better can INTEl Cpu handle it once you put off shadows AMD gets really good. AMD has smaller cores ... based on integer performance... FPU is way behind intel. Once you use integer performance and lightly FPu like power ray.. oced TAhlon x4 860K may beat and or mach stock i5. But when you put heavy FPu rendering (which is better to render with GPU) amd just sucks.

AMD "tough" that FPU rendering (CPU) is better to offload on GPU which is much more powerfull (physX NVIDIA, tress FX 3.0 AMD, havok) ... Basically there is no improvement on FPU for like 7 years from AMD.

Many people will say that amd has bad IPC ... but is not exactly true. Yes IPC is worse but... not by that much. Mostly problems is FPU 2x 128Bit per module - can this FPu compare to single intels 256 bit... yes it can but it is not much faster. I would really want to see same CPU with 2x better FPU.

http://blackholetec.com/main/article/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-page-7 here is good review.. you will see povray and CB difference when OC-ed


----------



## arcneis12

Hey,

I will have to monitor my system for a few days and hours of gameplay since I have not experienced any BSOD's so far.
I had crashes with Assassin's Creed 3 but the event logs are confusing, one says it's related to the .exe of the game (I reinstalled the game but haven't played again, will test after this), the other says related to .netframework (I'm pretty sure everything is okay, I repaired .nets and set them to default, even ran .net repair tool and windows updates just to make sure), one says it's related to the hardware (it's the first time I saw this kind of log -I like checking my eventvwr- so I'm not sure if this was related to overclocking), one says it's related to OS integrity so I ran checksur just to make sure - no problems, one says it's my graphics driver - I did make sure I repair it even when I doubt it has problems.

I have to test again just to be sure whether there really is a problem or I just needed to give my PC a good reboot.

Anyway, here's how I somehow got it stable:

I contacted Gigabyte for help, no decent answers, they haven't replied with my sarcasm. I contacted G.Skill, haven't got any reply just a no-reply email from their system. I contacted AMD, got no decent reply at first, turned to sarcasm and they hint me with adjusting the voltage alone with a "Note: AMD does not support overclocking and may void your warranty", something like that. And so far it's working good though I still have to monitor and test. AMD has been great so far compared to Gigabyte and G.Skill. I set my RAM to XMP Profile 2400MHz 10-12-12-31 then instead of the advertised voltage of 1.65v I set it to 1.70v (I tried 1.69v before but my pc crashed) then set the NB Frequency to 2000MHz.
That's pretty much all I did. It's just ridiculous I can't use my 2400MHz at advertised 1.65v. Not sure if 1.70v will have an impact with my RAM's lifespan.

I'll keep you posted.


----------



## arcneis12

After 17 hours my pc crashed. Not sure what happened. I was asleep and I could barely remember when I kinda woke up and my sister was on my PC. Not sure how long my PC was "frozen". It was a hard hang with lots of artifacts on the screen. I'll try again.


----------



## drg0ku

Arcneis you should run memtest86. As drmrlordx mentioned concentrate on the 2 tests. Iirc it was test 7 and test 8 for me that gave me problems. It takes less than 10 mins per pass. Without confirming with memtest86 you can never rule out ram.


----------



## drg0ku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Themisseble*
> 
> Look at Athlon x4 5350 .. look at puma+ .... look at FX 4300... Clock per clock - FPU - is the same performance. 4.5W TDP vs 25W TDP vs 95 W TDP. Go MMO like GW2/planet side puts shadows on... you will see how much better can INTEl Cpu handle it once you put off shadows AMD gets really good. AMD has smaller cores ... based on integer performance... FPU is way behind intel. Once you use integer performance and lightly FPu like power ray.. oced TAhlon x4 860K may beat and or mach stock i5. But when you put heavy FPu rendering (which is better to render with GPU) amd just sucks.
> 
> AMD "tough" that FPU rendering (CPU) is better to offload on GPU which is much more powerfull (physX NVIDIA, tress FX 3.0 AMD, havok) ... Basically there is no improvement on FPU for like 7 years from AMD.
> 
> Many people will say that amd has bad IPC ... but is not exactly true. Yes IPC is worse but... not by that much. Mostly problems is FPU 2x 128Bit per module - can this FPu compare to single intels 256 bit... yes it can but it is not much faster. I would really want to see same CPU with 2x better FPU.
> 
> http://blackholetec.com/main/article/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-page-7 here is good review.. you will see povray and CB difference when OC-ed


Thank you for your excellent insights regarding fpus and gaming physics. I never knew fpus are used in 3d physics.
Compared with Intel cpus Amd ones are indeed weaker in cpu based physics. The firestrike physics test does exactly this-force cpu to perform the physics rendering. If the a10 and the 4 year old i5 2400 score similar fps in this test, it should mean our a10's cpu based fpu performance is atleast on par with that of those older i5s. I am not going to pit my cpu against the latest i5 4670. It is mauling. They churn out more than twice the fps I get in this test.
Now according to futuremark the combined test (test 3) stresses the gpu graphics and the cpu physics at the same time. In comparison to the older i5,although my a10 scored better on the graphics only test (the test 1) and scored on-par in the cpu only fpu based test (the test 2) why would it score so much lower than the 4 year old i5 2400 in the combined test (the test 3)? Logically, I am guessing there must be some other component/technology in Intel (on even the older cpus) that enables their cpus to push the graphics card hard while at the same time use their cpu based fpus to the max. This particular aspect is falls sgort even in the more modern a10s. Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me that a10s have caught up with the sandy bridges in the cpu based fpu calculation side, is beating them w.r.t pushing graphics card but still loses out when it comes to multitasking both these jobs at the same time.
Since amds seems to so obviously lag in such forced multitasking scenarios, I hope in real games the amd drivers take over and have the gpu perform the physics as well. If that is not the case I guess disabling or even reducing all those graphic elements that rely on the fpus on cpu die, should help the cpu focus on purely pushing the graphics card (which it is very good at) and not bottleneck it instead. How do I identify such graphic elements? You mentioned shadows. What other items should I look for? Finally,if games use opencl2.0 or even opencl would amd cpus not bottleneck the graphics cards as much as it does with this particular firestrike combined test? Sorry if I seem misinformed. It is exciting but I am totally new to all this.


----------



## Turban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperHiro*
> 
> I just want to add this to the mixing pot thread of Kaveri overclocks. This is the highest, stable, geekbench score I achieved. http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1469603
> 
> This is on an MSI A88XM Gaming v1.3 bios, A10-7850K revision KV-A1 (bought it Jan as soon as it released) clocked to 4.4ghz with voltage set to auto on an H80i, NB @ 2000mhz +0.2V, Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Ridgeback 2133 @ 10-12-12-28-40, PowerColor TurboDuo R9 270 @ 1050/1455.
> 
> Unigine Valley score of 1648 in Extreme mode.
> 
> Edit: I lied, I managed to squeeze out more juice from the orange peels by changing the ram clocks to 1833 @ 9-11-11-25-35
> http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1473861
> 
> I'm going to play with reducing the timings further at 1833 since 1833 has been more stable than 2133 on the MSI A88XM Gaming
> 
> What I don't understand is why would I achieve a higher benchmark with slower ram?


Hi, I also have the A88XM Gaming and a Kaveri, and would like to start overclocking it too. I currently use the automated AMP profile to run the 1866 Ram at 2133, and the OC Genie feature to run the CPU at 4.2 Ghz (Gear 1). I tried Gear 2 (4.5) but it was not really stable ( crashed sometimes at idle). It is completely stable at 4.2 with OC Genie and AMP enabled.

I would like to do better than 4.2 (water cooled with great temps) but I am a total noob in OC.

In the end... could I ask you what you modified in the BIOS ? Just as an indication ? I tried to read about OC but it offen differs from the A88XM Gaming and so it's hard to know where to actually start.

Thanks in advance any tip would be greatly appreciate







!

EDIT : I am actually playing around with the settings you have mentionned, seems to work pretty nicely, better than with OC Genie for sure









EDIT 2 : http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1672586
It doesn't seem to record the frequency of the CPU properly (3.8 instead of 4.5) but the result is good, so ..
Pretty stable so far, 4.5 / +0.07 NB 2000Mhz/+0.07 with AMP enable 2133Mhz 11-11-11-30 1.65v


----------



## SuperHiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turban*
> 
> Hi, I also have the A88XM Gaming and a Kaveri, and would like to start overclocking it too. I currently use the automated AMP profile to run the 1866 Ram at 2133, and the OC Genie feature to run the CPU at 4.2 Ghz (Gear 1). I tried Gear 2 (4.5) but it was not really stable ( crashed sometimes at idle). It is completely stable at 4.2 with OC Genie and AMP enabled.
> 
> I would like to do better than 4.2 (water cooled with great temps) but I am a total noob in OC.
> 
> In the end... could I ask you what you modified in the BIOS ? Just as an indication ? I tried to read about OC but it offen differs from the A88XM Gaming and so it's hard to know where to actually start.
> 
> Thanks in advance any tip would be greatly appreciate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> 
> EDIT : I am actually playing around with the settings you have mentionned, seems to work pretty nicely, better than with OC Genie for sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT 2 : http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1672586
> It doesn't seem to record the frequency of the CPU properly (3.8 instead of 4.5) but the result is good, so ..
> Pretty stable so far, 4.5 / +0.07 NB 2000Mhz/+0.07 with AMP enable 2133Mhz 11-11-11-30 1.65v


Very nice. I've done some more tweaking and realized you don't need to push that much voltage to achieve those overclocks so you can reduce a good amount of heat. Right now, I have my settings at 4.5 / +0.02, NB 2000mhz / +0.02 and it's stable with less heat. I also have the same problem with geekbench thinking it's clocked at 3.8 but that doesn't bother me. Other than lowering the voltages, that's all the tips I can give in the oc section so far. I'm still trying to push to 4.6 but I can't manage to get it stable without the voltages being dangerously high. If I happen to figure it out, I'll be back on here.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1673650

Another benchmark after I finally managed to get my ram to stabley run it's advertised speed.

Edit: Regarding other bios settings, it's pretty standard. Disable turbo, which will automatically disable amd cool & quiet, and disable p-state limit, which is on the bottom of the oc section of the bios and prevents the cpu from keeping it within it's designed TDP range AFAIK.


----------



## Turban

That's funny because I actually raised the voltage to +0.08v as in your post as my PC crashed twice while playing (only playing, nothing for hours before) at +0.07v. After getting +0.08v it didn't crashed (so far).

*But :* I was playing Star Citizen (early alpha) so ... maybe the crash comes from that. I will definitely try to go down to +0.02v to save some heat , and see how that works !
Then I'll try to learn about what I can do with my RAm, because you seem to have some really nice numbers with your !









But anyway, thanks for sharing your results that helped me a lot to get to 4.5 without OC genie









Cheers


----------



## SuperHiro

Glad to help in any limited way I can. Still pretty new to this but I been playing with the kaveri for almost a year now and from my experience between three FM2+ boards this MSI seems to be the most 'random.' If you make any progress further ocing on this board, I'd be glad to hear about it to match your results









My ram btw is XMP 1.3 - 2133 - 10-12-12-28-40 @ 1.65v if that gives you anything to work with for your ram.


----------



## Turban

Well , not sure I'll ever provide something worth matching









So far it's only absolutely stable at +0.08v/+0.08v , it's easier to lower the NB voltage but eventually it crashes anyway (crashes pretty fast at +0.02v)
I guess it's time to try to read a bit about what's what









But enought for tonight









Cheers


----------



## Turban

I have raised the mem to 2400Mhz , so my score got better especially multi-core (mc was bad before) , but you are still having a better memory score so I need to check that out.
Memory frequency really seems to play a part in multi-core performance. I'm just a noob, so it's nice to discover stuff.

Oh yes and the CPU is at 4.67 both times









RAM dropped at 1886 http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1680392

RAM at 2392 http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1680440

Now I need to run 3D Mark .. I think I'm actually having fun today









EDIT : Didn't pass 3D mark :/ But I'll keep working on it, I'm feeling lucky









EDIT 2 : So, I tweaked some more and this time I passed Geekbench and 3D mark and passed the 10000 mark so that's cool

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1680783

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9265299

Stable so far, but probably not on the long run, and probably needs tweaking, I'm just having fun right now









Cheers


----------



## Turban

What do you guys use to monitor your temps ?

I use AMD Overdrive > Thermal margin

HWiNFO + MSI Command Center for MB + CPU temps.

*Problem* when I have a 10°C variation on both HWi and MSI CC, AMD Overdrive shows a 50°C variation of the thermal margin !!

So I don't know which to trust...

Also MSI CC ****ed it up at some point and turned my fans down ( Something happened, maybe it wasn't CC, but the fans were showing as much lower than usually, and much lower than what's in the BIOS), so no idea where those new settings were coming from)

At first I heard a "click" in my case, found that weird, and checked MSI CC... the temp was 81° !! Only f**** !!

Turned the fans/pump back up and within 10 sec it was back at 35°, with a lot of heat coming out of the case/rad... crazy .. I'll be carefull now, and leave the fans on a higher profile, just to know if they're on/off... before that they were low enought to keep the thing cool, but still be silent...
Now I want to hear them at all time just to be sure...

Anyway... just sharing my little noob experiences... tell me if I'm off topic.

I will come up with results hopefully soon , so far I am "successful enough" not to give up









Cheers


----------



## drg0ku

I use amd overdrive to monitor cpu thermal margin and asrock utility tool for mobo temps. Cpu temp reported by tools other than amd overdrive are not accurate. After reading your post I am not sure if my h80i throttles up and down as per the actual cpu temperature control requirement. I have noticed it running at different speeds but should closely monitor here on and maybe create a custom profile.
BTW, At what temps is your cpu running with 4.67.


----------



## Turban

Ok, so I'm going to give the thermal margin first : At idle I have 50 °C of Tmargin. Under 100% load the Tmargin goes down to 5/6 °C and then back up to 12/13 °C. That is mostly due to the time 4/5sec) it takes to the pump to ramp up and start taking the heat away. Once it ramps up it's very quick to lower the temp.
(That was thermal margin from AMD Overdrive)

In HWiNFO and MSI CC on the other hand, the temps go from 35 °C (idle) to 47/48 °C (full load).

The difference between monitoring softwares is crazy and honnestly it kind of make me hesitate... I went back to 4.6 while I sort out how to properly read the temps and voltages ..


----------



## DannyDK

Don your cpu start to throtle with that tm temp? The one i got does if its under 10 for a while.


----------



## Turban

I haven't seen any evidence of throttling. I did deactivate all the CPU management features in the bios, and I guess it does prevent throttling.

When I was using the stock cooler I was seeing hard throttling for long periods of time when running benchmarks, nothing like that now.

But the CPU goes under 10°C of tm for really short periods of time usually just the time for the pump to ramp up, maybe that's also a reason why it doesn't throttle.


----------



## wrtIAp

This is really weird, I've been having some problems with my 7850k, and today I got really fed up and decided to lower my NB and APU PCIE VDDP voltages. They were at NB 1.4V +1/2 LLC, and VDDP 1.314V, and now I've lowered them to NB 1.25V +1/2 LLC, and VDDP 1.052V and it seems stable for the short period of time that I've had it running now. Is it possible that too high voltages cause problems??
Btw other settings are:
CPU 4GHz 1.325V
NB 2000MHz
RAM 2400MHz 1.65V
APU 900MHz
edit: motherboard ASRock FM2A88x Extreme4+


----------



## drg0ku

Yeah. With the vdroop and disabling a few stuffs on the advanced cpu settings I have not seen throttling either. My cpu would rather shut itself down than throttle. My 4.7 had 100% load temps of 15 in firestrike and was quite stable elsewgere. But prime95 is a totally different beasr. My computer went below 10 and shutdown in under a minute. Not sure if it is the stability or the temperature but 4.6 it is for me. Maybe try prime95 thermal margin before ruling out your overclock.
Yes nb overclock is sensitive to voltage. My 2ghz nb is memtest stable only at 1.4v and 1/2 vcore. Every other voltage setting, 1.4025,1.39675,1.35,1.425,1.45 all failed. It requires exactly 1.4v and 1/2 vcore has to be enabled. I am not sure about the cpu voltage sensitivity though.


----------



## Turban

Anyone know where I can read official data regarding voltage recommandations etc ?

I read there is a 1.49 Cpu vcore breakdown limit ... ? MSI OC Genie goes up to 1.55 ...lol which is the max voltage noted in AMD overdrive system info...

And seriously, it bugs me that no software can agree on what voltage is being used... MSI Command Center (MB) and AMD overdrive show differences at all times, up to 0.6v ... lol, that's so unhelpful ....









What monitoring tool to trust, seriously...


----------



## DannyDK

Overdrive


----------



## Turban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Overdrive


I want to believe it, but when I change voltages in the BIOS; it doesn't even show in Overdrive :/ I have to make big change in the BIOS for overdrive to change move one step up or down depending. Really doesn't feel precise :/

And I'm not even talking about the difference with the MSI tool, that shows always changing voltage, and very very different than the ones I get in Overdrive that don't even change.

It's a bit aggravating :/


----------



## Agent Smith1984

I personally NEVER get actual vcore in overdrive, on neither my son's or my rig.

It works for incrementally bumping the voltage from within the application, but it never reports the proper vcore.
It always reports lower, and different for each system (not sure if this is a default for the board or what)

It says 1.325 in OD when my CPU is at 1.5v, but will let me increase it manually (use CPU-Z in for actual voltage while doing this).

On my son's machine, OD reports 1.4v while the vcore in BIOS is set to 1.5v, but will NOT allow me to increase the voltage manually, only reduce it.....

Never could figure out why....


----------



## DannyDK

Thats pretty wierd :-/ on my part overdrive shows the voltage correctly, i realy dont know why you have got that problem but i feel your pain, nothing more frustrating than things that act up :-(


----------



## drg0ku

Haven't had these problems either. Could it be because of usage of gui tools in Windows to overclock/change voltage? Maybe try setting it back to defaults here and reinstalling the tools.


----------



## DannyDK

So i just gave my Kaveri some new Thermal paste (Mx4) and that did the trick for me, now i have absolutely no problem running at 4.5 and benching. Ran Cinnebench R15 and got the best score i have ever gotten 381mc. I also tryed something called Geekbench 3 (32bit) and got theese scres: 2705 sc and 8465mc, actualy dont know if those scores are good or not, never tryed it before. I had problems before running at 4.5 when it comes to thermalmargin, now i got some 12-15c more so no throtling 
A happy man here ;-)


----------



## miklkit

I have been just casually keeping up with this thread until just recently when I built 2 FM2+ rigs for others, a 6800K and a 7850K both with the ASUS A88X-Pro motherboard.

Just by setting the bios to "performance" mode the 6800K is running at 4.4 ghz and the 7850K is running at 4.1 ghz. This is just too easy. Dunno if it is worth the bother to get a few hundred more mhz.


----------



## drmrlordx

Depends on how far you're willing to go, and what performance it is that you want. If the machines are gaming rigs, you may actually want more iGPU speed and memory speed. You should also take care to make sure the 7850k is not throttling under iGPU load (use amdmsrtweaker under Windows).


----------



## miklkit

The 7850K is 100 miles away and is used for light gaming. It also still has the stock heat sink on it so it is probably not a good idea to go any further with it for now. I ran IBT AVX on it and it peaked in the 40-45C range. It took a little tweaking to get the G Skill ram to run at its 2400mhz speed but it was doing fine when I left.

I never heard of amdmsrtweaker before, but dled it. What is the best way to OC the gpu?


----------



## Themisseble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> The 7850K is 100 miles away and is used for light gaming. It also still has the stock heat sink on it so it is probably not a good idea to go any further with it for now. I ran IBT AVX on it and it peaked in the 40-45C range. It took a little tweaking to get the G Skill ram to run at its 2400mhz speed but it was doing fine when I left.
> 
> I never heard of amdmsrtweaker before, but dled it. What is the best way to OC the gpu?


that iGPU is totally unused...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7730-cape-verde-review,3575.html

A10 7850K = 7750 DDR3 iGPU + Athlon x4 860K...
A10 7850K at 1100 or 1200 mhz should be like 30-45% faster than that 7750 with DDR5 (without memory bandwidth bottleneck)

7730 DDR3 has more memory bandwidth that A10 7850K with 2100Mhz Rams

Actually its quite sad that AMD APu are bounded with memory bandwidth for years now.


----------



## TinoArg

I played a little more with my 7700K and my new board (FM2A88X-ITX+). I can't pass the 105blck wall, neither AHCI nor IDE mode.

I gave up at 104blck, with the CPU @ 4260MHz (1.3125v), GPU @ 1070MHz (1.3375v), NB @ 1975MHz and RAMs @ 2500MHz 10-12-12-31-1T, with Catalyst Omega 14.12.

 




And I added some heatsinks to the VRM:


----------



## DannyDK

Anyone used PCMark 8?

http://www.3dmark.com/pcm8/5584480


----------



## DannyDK

I have a serious problem right now! My AMD rig (wich i just sold two days ago) wont boot, post or do anything, accept for the watercooler fan going completely bonkers, i meen runs fast ral fast, and that is about all that happens when you turn it on. Is it the waterpump or is it the 7850K that has had it? He/we removed the ram and plugged them back in, didnt help, took out the dgpu, didnt help, took out the battery and put it back in and still nothing. Anyone with noledge about how to solve the problem?


----------



## SuperHiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I have a serious problem right now! My AMD rig (wich i just sold two days ago) wont boot, post or do anything, accept for the watercooler fan going completely bonkers, i meen runs fast ral fast, and that is about all that happens when you turn it on. Is it the waterpump or is it the 7850K that has had it? He/we removed the ram and plugged them back in, didnt help, took out the dgpu, didnt help, took out the battery and put it back in and still nothing. Anyone with noledge about how to solve the problem?


You should set up a separate thread about individual issues. Did you try swapping out the PSU?


----------



## DannyDK

Havent tryed that no, will try that and report back.


----------



## DannyDK

Didnt help :-(


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I have a serious problem right now! My AMD rig (wich i just sold two days ago) wont boot, post or do anything, accept for the watercooler fan going completely bonkers, i meen runs fast ral fast, and that is about all that happens when you turn it on. Is it the waterpump or is it the 7850K that has had it? He/we removed the ram and plugged them back in, didnt help, took out the dgpu, didnt help, took out the battery and put it back in and still nothing. Anyone with noledge about how to solve the problem?


Could you give us a list of the specs/parts that are in the PC? Did you have any issues with it before you sold it? Is the person you sold it to knowledgeable about computers? The reason I ask is that if they aren't very experienced I hope they didn't try jumping right into overclocking and end up frying something.


----------



## DannyDK

7850K
Asrock fatality fm88x+ killer motherboard
G. skill 2400mhz ram (2x4gb)
OCZ 80+ bronze 500watt psu
cooler master poseidon watercooler
Saphire r9 280 dual x
kingston 60gb ssd
Hitachi 500gb hdd
Asus dvd burner
tp link wi-fi card

It had some slight sound distortion which went away by it self.
Hi does´nt know anything about overclocking and very little about computers in genneral.


----------



## wotchisel

nevermind........


----------



## ga1ve1an

Hey everyone. Hope everyone has been doing well. Back after playing with a 7850k for sometime. Impressive little chip. Just want to let everyone know a solution to the CPU throttling to 3ghz when gaming or using the integrated gpu cores. It is a simple fix that is connected to the multiplier. I have my cpu overclocked to just about 4.6ghz and when I game or bench anything that uses the gpu, instead of it falling down to 3ghz it only drops down to 4ghz. Big difference in the games that are cpu limited.

The way I did this is by overclocking the bus from 100mhz to 131mhz. Then I had to lower the multiplier on the cpu. Now I know many have said they cant get past 103-105 bus speed. That is true but there is something that allows you to go past it. You have to install the AMD SATA driver. I use the one from the omega 14.12. Once installed it will load into windows on higher bus speeds. Without the driver it uses the default windows sata driver that will stall at the windows loading screen when you reach between 103- 105. I am using a crossblade ranger but without the driver from AMD I had the same issue as others here. With it installed I was able to get as high as 135 bus speed. But I could not stabilize my 2400mhz trident at over 2500mhz. That's it!!!

So the bios is probably programmed to lower the multiplier when the gpu portion of the chip is in use, but by pushing up the bus speed the default multiplier that it drops to ends up being even higher then the default clock if you can get the bus high enough. Actual temps didn't change at all on the cpu side so I don't know why they programmed it to drop the multiplier. Either way my final stable settings are below..

7850k - runs 4585ghz on CPU related stuff, drops to 4ghz while gaming or using GPU related programs
Integrated GPU - runs 1048mhz
FSB - 131mhz
NB - 1965mhz
2x 8GB G.Skill 2400 - running at 2450mhz

Need any more info let me know!!!


----------



## wrtIAp

You can just use AmdMsrTweaker to change the P5 state (when iGPU is on load) from x30 multiplier to whatever you want.
Btw I am having trouble getting my iGPU overclocked at all, programs seem to crash randomly or complete bluescreen (not very often do these happen) when my iGPU isn't stock. Upping the NB by 0.15V doesn't even seem to work.
Currently 720Mhz 1.25V NB running perfectly stable


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> You can just use AmdMsrTweaker to change the P5 state (when iGPU is on load) from x30 multiplier to whatever you want.
> Btw I am having trouble getting my iGPU overclocked at all, programs seem to crash randomly or complete bluescreen (not very often do these happen) when my iGPU isn't stock. Upping the NB by 0.15V doesn't even seem to work.
> Currently 720Mhz 1.25V NB running perfectly stable


Wow that is a lot of voltage for stock gpu clock. My 7850k runs 720mhz stable at 1.15v. if I use 1.25v I can get my gpu to almost 1ghz. 1.31 has me stable at 1048mhz. 1.35v I can do 1155mhz.

I would say that when I started to overclock the cpu portion and increasing the voltage on the cpu side it stabilized my GPU side also. For example if I didn't overclock my cpu and used the lowest stable voltage for default clocks of 3.7ghz, I couldn't stabilize the GPU at the above clocks with the same voltages above on the NB. But once I started adding more voltage to the cpu side it seems to stabilize the package overall strangely. Might want to try that.


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> You can just use AmdMsrTweaker to change the P5 state (when iGPU is on load) from x30 multiplier to whatever you want.
> Btw I am having trouble getting my iGPU overclocked at all, programs seem to crash randomly or complete bluescreen (not very often do these happen) when my iGPU isn't stock. Upping the NB by 0.15V doesn't even seem to work.
> Currently 720Mhz 1.25V NB running perfectly stable


By the way random crashing or bluescreening is cpu, NB, or memory not stable. I can get the gpu into windows at 1200mhz with no problems or crashing until I run something that needs the gpu and then I will get a display driver restarted balloon on the bottom right corner, or video stall with corruption.

Also I think the MSRtweaker doesn't work for this situation because it is not related to a pstate... it is just dropping the clocks on the cpu based on if the gpu is being used or not... from what I read from others they couldn't stop it from turning off cool & quiet or any other options that control the pstates in bios. It is internal in the chip.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ga1ve1an*
> 
> The way I did this is by overclocking the bus from 100mhz to 131mhz.


I have gotten bclk speeds up to 119 mhz to boot some of the time, but the behavior of the system becomes unpredictable and strange at any speed above 100 mhz for me. I had problems with the display cutting out at 120 mhz or higher. That's on an A88x-Pro A10-7700k.

I did install the AMD SATA drivers in Win7, but not in Win10, and of course not in Linux (there aren't any). Maybe that's why Win10 has been crapping out on me at bclk speeds above 100.

Another thing I did was put my drives on a PCIe SATA controller, which is a blessing and a curse. The PCIe card becomes unresponsive above 120 mhz bclk as well. The only subsystem that seem to remain responsive at nearly any bclk is the onboard USB controller, so I'm guessing that anyone who is really serious about bclk overclocking would be best off using USB storage.

Do you use the onboard SATA controller, and do you run your controller in SATA mode, or IDE mode?

I do highly recommend that you use amdmsrtweaker to correct your CPU throttling during iGPU usage. It always uses the P5 state during those situations, so you can manipulate the P5 state to fix the problem. I have done it, and it works.

Or you can just run an Ubuntu-derivative Linux distro. The ACPI driver there never seems to throttle due to iGPU usage. It's a Windows thing.


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ga1ve1an*
> 
> By the way random crashing or bluescreening is cpu, NB, or memory not stable. I can get the gpu into windows at 1200mhz with no problems or crashing until I run something that needs the gpu and then I will get a display driver restarted balloon on the bottom right corner, or video stall with corruption.
> 
> Also I think the MSRtweaker doesn't work for this situation because it is not related to a pstate... it is just dropping the clocks on the cpu based on if the gpu is being used or not... from what I read from others they couldn't stop it from turning off cool & quiet or any other options that control the pstates in bios. It is internal in the chip.


Thanks a lot, I will try upping my CPU voltage a bit then. Btw, trust me and many others when we say it's the p-state problem. Download and use AmdMsrTweaker_1.1, change the p5 state and I guarantee you the problem of 30x multiplier during iGPU load will be solved.
Also, is there any test I can use to reliably test and crash my system quickly if it's unstable? Even if I go up to 1028MHz, tests can't really tell me anything if I run them for about half an hour. But when gaming, once in a while the whole game will just close which is pretty annoying as I have no idea of knowing if I'm ever stable or not until it happens.
Btw my ASRock has insanely high stock voltages (1.4V for CPU and 1.35V for NB) if I have 2400MHz RAM, so I've decreased them by quite a lot already.


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> Thanks a lot, I will try upping my CPU voltage a bit then. Btw, trust me and many others when we say it's the p-state problem. Download and use AmdMsrTweaker_1.1, change the p5 state and I guarantee you the problem of 30x multiplier during iGPU load will be solved.
> Also, is there any test I can use to reliably test and crash my system quickly if it's unstable? Even if I go up to 1028MHz, tests can't really tell me anything if I run them for about half an hour. But when gaming, once in a while the whole game will just close which is pretty annoying as I have no idea of knowing if I'm ever stable or not until it happens.
> Btw my ASRock has insanely high stock voltages (1.4V for CPU and 1.35V for NB) if I have 2400MHz RAM, so I've decreased them by quite a lot already.


Cool I will try that then... I must have read through to fast and overlooked some sections. Will give it a try.. I use AIDA64 the newest version since it has all kind of stability tests and even a section for just doing gpgpu stress tests. If your gpu overclock is to high with not enough voltage it will stall since it is only computing on the gpu. Then you just increase the nb voltage. Once you make it through a few times should be good.

When I overclock though I usually underclock the cpu, nb, and memory a lot... Then I push the gpu as far as I can so nothing else can be a factor. This is how I found out about the gpu and cpu voltage relation. So you might want to find the optimal cpu overclock you are comfortable with first and then go to the gpu overclocking. That way the voltage has already been adjusted up on the cpu and then you should get much farther on the gpu. Once those two are stable you can do the memory next. Test memory overclocking in actual games only since it is stressing fully system. If you get crashes you will know it isn't the cpu or gpu, but the memory. Then just adjust the clock and voltage of your memory accordingly. Final overclock adjustments should be the NB bus. This one is easy since you already have upped the NB voltage for the gpu. So you just have to up the NB until it crashes. Once you get a crash back off one multiplier and you should be done.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ga1ve1an*
> 
> Hey everyone. Hope everyone has been doing well. Back after playing with a 7850k for sometime. Impressive little chip. Just want to let everyone know a solution to the CPU throttling to 3ghz when gaming or using the integrated gpu cores. It is a simple fix that is connected to the multiplier. I have my cpu overclocked to just about 4.6ghz and when I game or bench anything that uses the gpu, instead of it falling down to 3ghz it only drops down to 4ghz. Big difference in the games that are cpu limited.
> 
> The way I did this is by overclocking the bus from 100mhz to 131mhz. Then I had to lower the multiplier on the cpu. Now I know many have said they cant get past 103-105 bus speed. That is true but there is something that allows you to go past it. You have to install the AMD SATA driver. I use the one from the omega 14.12. Once installed it will load into windows on higher bus speeds. Without the driver it uses the default windows sata driver that will stall at the windows loading screen when you reach between 103- 105. I am using a crossblade ranger but without the driver from AMD I had the same issue as others here. With it installed I was able to get as high as 135 bus speed. But I could not stabilize my 2400mhz trident at over 2500mhz. That's it!!!
> 
> So the bios is probably programmed to lower the multiplier when the gpu portion of the chip is in use, but by pushing up the bus speed the default multiplier that it drops to ends up being even higher then the default clock if you can get the bus high enough. Actual temps didn't change at all on the cpu side so I don't know why they programmed it to drop the multiplier. Either way my final stable settings are below..
> 
> 7850k - runs 4585ghz on CPU related stuff, drops to 4ghz while gaming or using GPU related programs
> Integrated GPU - runs 1048mhz
> FSB - 131mhz
> NB - 1965mhz
> 2x 8GB G.Skill 2400 - running at 2450mhz
> 
> Need any more info let me know!!!


Hi, I reinstalled Catalyst Omega Chipset Drivers (AMD SATA Drivers, AMD USB FIlter Drivers and IOMMU Null Driver) and I tried again rising the blck. Although I could go over 105MHz, until 111MHz (haven't tried more), it was only lowering the 24x RAM divider to 21.33x, there is no way I could go over 2500MHz stable (at 2600MHz AIDA64 benchmark sometime pass, but I can't do much more), I get a lot of random errors during boot or some minutes later. I got to the conclusion that the IMC can't take more than that, neither with 1.4v (I use 1.325v for RAM 2400MHz). The memory sticks aren't the problem, because they do 2500MHz with 10-11-11-27-40-1T, and even with 13-14-14-38-2T and 1.7v they can't get me a single MHz more. So, I don't get why you want to rise the blck in a unlocked APU. You can "fix" the throttling only changing the P5 state with AmdMsrTweaker as WrtIAp said, even automatically during startup (add the .bat as a task with admin privileges).
I disabled Turbo from BIOS (P0 to P2), and I set P3 (base), P4 and P5 (GPU throttling) as 39x(104MHz)@1.25v, and you can left P6 and P7 as they are, or undervolting a little more (I set P7 at 16x @0.8v).

Now I'm trying APM on vs APM off. Is very weird, even with all CPU P-States fixed at 4GHz, the CPU power consumption alone drop until GPU+CPU load, being always at ~85W (CPU load alone is also 85W without turbo, and GPU only is 55W). If I turn off APM, CPU and GPU load alone are the same, but CPU power comsumption doesn't drop under GPU+CPU load, and the total rises to ~125W. Aida says the CPU is at 4060MHz every time, and the GPU at 998MHz, but when I run 3DMark Firestrike in both modes, APM On is around 50points faster than APM Off. I'll post some pics and exact number tomorrow, I don't have them here.


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Hi, I reinstalled Catalyst Omega Chipset Drivers (AMD SATA Drivers, AMD USB FIlter Drivers and IOMMU Null Driver) and I tried again rising the blck. Although I could go over 105MHz, until 111MHz (haven't tried more), it was only lowering the 24x RAM divider to 21.33x, there is no way I could go over 2500MHz stable (at 2600MHz AIDA64 benchmark sometime pass, but I can't do much more), I get a lot of random errors during boot or some minutes later. I got to the conclusion that the IMC can't take more than that, neither with 1.4v (I use 1.325v for RAM 2400MHz). The memory sticks aren't the problem, because they do 2500MHz with 10-11-11-27-40-1T, and even with 13-14-14-38-2T and 1.7v they can't get me a single MHz more. So, I don't get why you want to rise the blck in a unlocked APU. You can "fix" the throttling only changing the P5 state with AmdMsrTweaker as WrtIAp said, even automatically during startup (add the .bat as a task with admin privileges).
> I disabled Turbo from BIOS (P0 to P2), and I set P3 (base), P4 and P5 (GPU throttling) as 39x(104MHz)@1.25v, and you can left P6 and P7 as they are, or undervolting a little more (I set P7 at 16x @0.8v).
> 
> Now I'm trying APM on vs APM off. Is very weird, even with all CPU P-States fixed at 4GHz, the CPU power consumption alone drop until GPU+CPU load, being always at ~85W (CPU load alone is also 85W without turbo, and GPU only is 55W). If I turn off APM, CPU and GPU load alone are the same, but CPU power comsumption doesn't drop under GPU+CPU load, and the total rises to ~125W. Aida says the CPU is at 4060MHz every time, and the GPU at 998MHz, but when I run 3DMark Firestrike in both modes, APM On is around 50points faster than APM Off. I'll post some pics and exact number tomorrow, I don't have them here.


To use a higher blck you have to lower the memory multiplier more. I couldn't go over 2500mhz either on my g.skill tridents either and I have got them working on other boards with tight timings over 2500. Must be a limitation with the imc of the 7850k. As for the blck, I wasn't aware of the amdmsr, and I did see it worked. Just have to do a script so I don't have to cmd prompt it every boot. But the blck gave me better nb clocks and better memory clocks. And we all know the 7850k needs bandwidth more than anything.


----------



## TinoArg

Exactly.

I rise the blck also, but just a little, so I can put the RAM at 2500MHz (F3-2400C10D-8GTX here). I wish I could go higher. I'll try to change these sticks for Dual ranks sticks (but in 2x4, because 2x8 is too much for me, I only use this PC as a HTPC/Windows Steam Machine). I'll do a script too, but after I get 100% stable frequencies with all the undervolt it could take.


----------



## imreloadin

Just out of curiosity what is the highest stable iGPU overclock people have gotten on this chip?


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Just out of curiosity what is the highest stable iGPU overclock people have gotten on this chip?


I can game on my fine at a max of about 1155Mhz. Booting into windows at 1200mhz is possible but once something needs the gpu (youtube, etc) it will stall the video or give me video corruption. But since the core helps very little since they are bandwidth limited I have it running at 1079mhz w 1.3v. This clock is the best balance for me with the highest memory settings. I was finally able to get 2540mhz out of my g skill 2400mhz. That helped more then the higher clock.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ga1ve1an*
> 
> I can game on my fine at a max of about 1155Mhz. Booting into windows at 1200mhz is possible but once something needs the gpu (youtube, etc) it will stall the video or give me video corruption. But since the core helps very little since they are bandwidth limited I have it running at 1079mhz w 1.3v. This clock is the best balance for me with the highest memory settings. I was finally able to get 2540mhz out of my g skill 2400mhz. That helped more then the higher clock.


What bandwidth (gb/s) and texture rate (gtexel/s) do you get with those settings?


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> What bandwidth (gb/s) and texture rate (gtexel/s) do you get with those settings?


Tell me what program to use to test that and I will post for you


----------



## DannyDK

gpu-z can show it


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> gpu-z can show it


Here you go!!!


----------



## DannyDK

Thats not bad at all, better than the ddr3 version of the r7 250 by quite a bit


----------



## TinoArg

Anyone have a AmdMsrTweaker screenshot with the 7850K stock (original P-states)?

I tried to get the higher frecuencies I could with the stock VIDs for each P-States. With my 7700K I get this, all tested as base frequency, not Turbo.

41x - 4100MHz - 1.2125VID (~1.177v) - 54/50ºC (CPU/Chipset)
43x - 4300MHz - 1.2875VID (~1.242v) - 58/52ºC
44x - 4400MHz - 1.3375VID (~1.277v) - 64/55ºC
45x - 4500MHz - 1.3875VID (~1.323v) - 64/51ºC (the fan spin up, some throttling for 1 second each time it reaches 65°C)

It's stable with all of them (AIDA64 stress test). The problem is when I set the same speeds as Turbo P-States is not stable. And power consumption is higher with Turbo between 4.3/4.5GHz and 4.1GHz base (110W) than at fixed at 4.5GHz (90W, even though temps are higher). I want to do this like that because I don't want my CPU all the time at 4.5GHz and running hotter.

I also rise the P-State 5 (CPU+GPU) to 4.1GHz with 1.2125v, same as base frequency (I could set at 4.2GHz with 1.25v also, but temps exceed 60°C, and it's summer here).



I have Cool'n'Quiet, C6, AMD-V, IOMMU enabled from BIOS and Windows power settings at Balanced.

I want the sweet point between performance and power/temps/noise.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imreloadin*
> 
> Just out of curiosity what is the highest stable iGPU overclock people have gotten on this chip?


1107MHz, but the mobo sets 1.4625v for NB-GPU and it seems to much for me. So I use it at 1028MHz with 1.3625v (changing the NB-GPU VID doesn't affect it :s). Rising the blck I could reach 1070MHz with the same voltage, but I gave up with blck, I return to 100MHz because it's a lottery.


----------



## SYPH

Does a 7850k T 4.5 GHZ bottleneck a r9 280?


----------



## miklkit

It could but only old single thread games. On a modern game no way.

For instance here are loads from a Half Life 2 mod, Black Mesa, and Bioshock Infinite. Guess which game has the best frame rate and graphics?


----------



## SYPH

Hey guys its me again. I'm just wondering how high could you overclock a 7850K with 212 Evo in oush.pull?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Hey guys its me again. I'm just wondering how high could you overclock a 7850K with 212 Evo in oush.pull?


In my experience, with good case flow, anything above 1.45v was dipping into the single digit thermal margin range under realistic full loads, like video encoding. 4.5GHz was stable for me at 1.45v. I havent pushed any further as my thermals were getting too high for my liking.


----------



## ga1ve1an

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Hey guys its me again. I'm just wondering how high could you overclock a 7850K with 212 Evo in oush.pull?


Most here will tell you it depends on your chip. I have a 7850k that can do 4.4ghz on practically default voltage. But starts needing a lot to go over that. I would say 4.2 - 4.4ghz would be safe bet.


----------



## SYPH

Yea i heard the 7850k outputs more heat cause of the GPU than the 860k


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Yea i heard the 7850k outputs more heat cause of the GPU than the 860k


My disabled iGPU in my 860K still runs at 720MHz


----------



## THUMPer1

*Having some issues* Hopefully someone sees this and can help
I am trying to get my Patriot RAM (PV316G213C1K) stable at 2133. 11-11-11-30 1.65v (it says 1.5v but I can't get it to POST at that). Using MSI Z88XM Gaming (recent BIOS). The RAM is in the supported list.

Here are my settings.
http://i.imgur.com/Gm5AbKi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bYCbus7.jpg

CPU voltage is at auto.
NB v is + .09
NB speed is 2000

CPU PLL - 1.85
CPU VDD - 1.20

All power saving features on CPU are turned off.
What am I missing? *If I lower my NB speed to 1800, it seems stable*. Does this mean my NB Voltage is too low?
This is a Windows Media Center PC and I watch TV and use Netflix... If Netflix crashes again my Girlfriend will kill me.
Programs I'm using for stability are Prime95 and IntelBurnTest. Temps never get above 55 according to MSI Control Center.


----------



## chaosdna

did u try DIMM2 and DIMM4?
also stock NB is 1800mhz mine won;t post at 2000mhz


----------



## DannyDK

Try and set the NB to 1.375, thats what i needed to get it to run @ 2000mhz. with RAM running @ 2400mhz.
Hope it helps


----------



## THUMPer1

I am in DIMM 2 and 4. After some more reading I added more voltage to the NB. +.20. This gives me a NB voltage in Windows 1.29/1.30. This seems to have done the trick.
I believe there is some Vdroop on the NB voltage, so I was weary to add anymore. But I did it anyway and it seems to have helped.

Edit: after a few hours watching tv it froze up. Added more nb voltage. .23 now. Hah


----------



## TinoArg

I use 1.3625v for [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] (I can't change that, the BIOS automatically set the NB-VID like that, whatever I set), and I think is stable. (I have some random crashes also in Netflix or Spotify, but it's stable stressing with AIDA64 and Furmark).

I also have the APU Load Line Calibration enabled (1/2). I don't know if this is for CPU, NB/GPU or both, I still have vdrop in the CPU, and I don't have a sensor for NB real voltage (only VID).


----------



## chaosdna

wait wait what are you trying to run the ram at
if 2133mhz then the NB is good at 1.3v and 1800mhz


----------



## THUMPer1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> wait wait what are you trying to run the ram at
> if 2133mhz then the NB is good at 1.3v and 1800mhz


I'm trying to run ram at 2133 and NB at 2000. It seems stable at NB 1800 and RAM 2133 without voltage tweaks on the NB. Why?


----------



## chaosdna

NB 1800Mhz is stock legit for 2133MHz ram even 2400MHz ram 1800MHz nb is fine


----------



## THUMPer1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosdna*
> 
> NB 1800Mhz is stock legit for 2133MHz ram even 2400MHz ram 1800MHz nb is fine


Well I wanted 2000 haha.


----------



## Themisseble

can anyone make benchmark 3Dmark 11 with A10 7850K?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THUMPer1*
> 
> Well I wanted 2000 haha.


it's also worth it
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?50640-Kaveri-and-APUNB-scaling-%28Crossblade-Ranger-tested%29


----------



## THUMPer1

I may have lost the silicone lottery.


----------



## matty50racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THUMPer1*
> 
> I may have lost the silicone lottery.


Silicone is in caulk and breast implants. These chips we love are made of silicon.


----------



## bonesb62

Lol awesome!


----------



## DannyDK

I love both, breasts and chips that is ;-)


----------



## jackalopeater

Haha, Well, I know I lost the Silicon lottery. It takes 1.62v to get my 7850k to 4.5ghz......don't worry I don't run it that way. I just got frustrated and wanted to see what it would take for my Crossblade Ranger to push up to that point. It was rock solid stable, for benchmarks anyway.


----------



## THUMPer1

I'll wait for the refresh for a good chip.


----------



## Darklyric

I thought you guys might be interested in my review of the new A8 7650k







http://www.overclock.net/t/1545544/a8-7650k-build-with-benches#post_23653708

reading this gave me a lot of pointers on my A8 setup







thanks


----------



## drmrlordx

The 7650k is available now? Sweet. Should make a good replacement/stand-in for the 7700k at a lower price.


----------



## 1stVeteran

Some ofr you guys are taking it pretty far.'
Mine runs at 4.1ghz CPU, 1.0 ghz GPU stock NB and 2400mhz DDR3, but i still love to play on that thing.
http://imgur.com/A2tMMrv
playing games on a trippel-monitor-settup at mid seeing on a iGPU







and it hasnt sunk below 30 fps.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1stVeteran*
> 
> Some ofr you guys are taking it pretty far.'
> Mine runs at 4.1ghz CPU, 1.0 ghz GPU stock NB and 2400mhz DDR3, but i still love to play on that thing.
> http://imgur.com/A2tMMrv
> playing games on a trippel-monitor-settup at mid seeing on a iGPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and it hasnt sunk below 30 fps.


Thats pretty impressive


----------



## 1stVeteran

thanks








but gaming on a trippel monitor is only playable atless-demanding/older games: Just Cause 2, Skyrim, Grid2 ...
With lower resollution: AC3, Dishonored, BF3, TR
everything mid settings (dont like low settings most of the time)
But as i saud my oc arent that impressive and it would be interresting to see what other people with higher oc can play.


----------



## Rektifying

Unfortunately for me, my MSI A88XI has no voltage controls period. Not in the Bios nor in MSI Command Center. (They are grayed out/locked) The voltage on my board is "auto" and it loves to put it higher than necessary for my overclocks. I ended up sticking with my AMD A10-7850K @ 4.2GHZ CPU and 960mhz GPU. Works out great for me though so I can't complain. (Using 2400mhz ram)

*When I go from 960mhz to 1029 in the bios which is the next step up, any game I load just freezes instantly. LOL


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rektifying*
> 
> Unfortunately for me, my MSI A88XI has no voltage controls period. Not in the Bios nor in MSI Command Center. (They are grayed out/locked) The voltage on my board is "auto" and it loves to put it higher than necessary for my overclocks. I ended up sticking with my AMD A10-7850K @ 4.2GHZ CPU and 960mhz GPU. Works out great for me though so I can't complain. (Using 2400mhz ram)
> 
> *When I go from 960mhz to 1029 in the bios which is the next step up, any game I load just freezes instantly. LOL


Are you using msrtweaker? You can set nb voltage and nb frequency with it as well.


----------



## wrtIAp

Still can't seem to get my 2400MHz stable.. Nothing really seems to be the problem until a game closes suddenly for no reason. But once in a while, after many reboots, the computer is stable, and will never crash. But once I have to reboot the computer, it'll usually be unstable again, so I try to leave my computer on for ages once I realize it's stable


----------



## 1stVeteran

Sry i dont know what it is but good for you that kaveri has such a low powerusage in seep mode.
what i actually came for is that i got my cpu at 4.4ghz without increasing voltage at all 
but it would be even better if i could hold thease clocks while gaming.
i really dont kow how to use msr tweaker.


----------



## wrtIAp

What are you voltages for 4.4GHz? Let's say it's 1.4V, and your AMDMSRTWEAKER is in c:\amdmsrtweaker\x64\amdmsrtweaker.exe.
Write a .txt file and save it as .bat the contents in the .bat file should be:

cd c:\AmdMsrTweaker\x64
AmdMsrTweaker [email protected]


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> What are you voltages for 4.4GHz? Let's say it's 1.4V, and your AMDMSRTWEAKER is in c:\amdmsrtweaker\x64\amdmsrtweaker.exe.
> Write a .txt file and save it as .bat the contents in the .bat file should be:
> 
> cd c:\AmdMsrTweaker\x64
> AmdMsrTweaker [email protected]


AmdMsrTweaker [email protected] Is 4.4 ghz at 1.4volts









Also the p4 state is the one the cpu downclocks when igpu is active


----------



## wrtIAp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> AmdMsrTweaker [email protected] Is 4.4 ghz at 1.4volts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the p4 state is the one the cpu downclocks when igpu is active


oh woops yeah [email protected], forgot to change that lol. And I don't know, because mine definitely goes to p5


----------



## 1stVeteran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> AmdMsrTweaker [email protected] Is 4.4 ghz at 1.4volts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the p4 state is the one the cpu downclocks when igpu is active


sry i have to corect my self, the MOBO automatically increased the volatge whe i increased rthe clock.
i just have to say 4,5 ghz @ 1.525volts








i now öet it run at 4.2 @ 1.45 volts, and will try to get voltage at 1.4 myself.
that was really stupid of me, i appologies.
I will try MsrTweaker also







what do you have?
Is 4.0Ghz ok in aspect of heat, while the i GPU is also running.


----------



## joeh4384

Is there anything quirky with the Kaveri temp sensors? I am showing package temp of 76 degrees C in HW monitor. Is there another program I should use to monitor temps?


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joeh4384*
> 
> Is there anything quirky with the Kaveri temp sensors? I am showing package temp of 76 degrees C in HW monitor. Is there another program I should use to monitor temps?


and overdrivehttp://www.amd.com/en-us/markets/game/downloads/overdrive
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1stVeteran*
> 
> sry i have to corect my self, the MOBO automatically increased the volatge whe i increased rthe clock.
> i just have to say 4,5 ghz @ 1.525volts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i now öet it run at 4.2 @ 1.45 volts, and will try to get voltage at 1.4 myself.
> that was really stupid of me, i appologies.
> I will try MsrTweaker also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what do you have?
> Is 4.0Ghz ok in aspect of heat, while the i GPU is also running.


it depends on your chip but you have to use amdamd overdrive to monitor it. I use hwinfo to monitor clocks and make sure nothing is throttling. I can run 4.5ghz and 900igpu (7650k) at 1.41vcore and 1.215 northbridge. Try manually setting your vcore in the bios maybe?

Edit:and overdrive give you the thermal margin reading for your whole apu. So if it says 62c on your cores then you have 62c of headroom.


----------



## engineered2win

Well with the help of this thread I was finally able to run 2400Mhz! I built this rig back before Christmas to replace an ancient Athlon XP 64 X2 rig I built in college about 10 years ago, because the SATA1 controller on the mobo died and it wasn't worth throwing another cent into. From day 1 this rig was never able to run the RAM faster than 2133Mhz regardless of timings and stability was utter crap.

I tried XMP timings, manually set XMP timings, super ******ed timings, increasing DRAM voltage up to 1.75v, increasing NB voltage up to 1.35v, etc. and nothing made any difference in stability. With stock frequencies, all voltages in the BIOS set to auto, and running 1866mhz RAM it was still unstable with the random BSOD or kernel power crash. It would pass Memtest at 1866 and 2133 though. I stumbled across the APU PCIE Voltage VDDP in this thread and noticed it was set to 1.052v, which is the lowest selectable option. I bumped VDDP up to 1.15v and DRAM to 1.675v and was able to boot to the desktop at 2400Mhz running XMP, but Prime95 would error out within seconds. I knew I had found the issue, so I bumped VDDP to 1.17v and was able to run 45 minutes of Prime95 blend and ran the Prime95 benchmark without any errors. I ran memtest and got a boatload of errors and it crashed. There seems to be an issue with Memtest running SMP, because it will crash at the same point in every test. It works fine in single core mode however. I bumped DRAM to 1.685v and VDDP to 1.206v and Memtest made it through one pass with 59 errors. I increased DRAM to 1.70v and left VDDP at 1.206v and Memtest successfully completed 2 passes with no errors! System stability is much improved as well.

I have successfully ran Prime95 at 4.4Ghz / 1.4v Vcore, but it runs significantly warmer than stock voltage even with Cool n Quiet enabled. Idle temps were around 32*C and load jumped up to around 60*C. It is currently running 4Ghz @ 1.35v and idle temp is around 28*C with load around 42*C. Seeing that the CPU slows down when the iGPU is taxed it seems more effective to see what undervolting can achieve. Tonight I'm going to work on NB frequencies and run some benchmarks. Thanks guys, good luck!

Update:
System is completely stable at 2000Mhz NB (stock 1.275v) and 2400Mhz(VDDP 1.206/DRAM 1.70v) with XMP profile 11-13-13-32. The iGPU is stable at 850Mhz on stock 1.275v NB and I am slowly increasing to find the stability limit on stock voltage.
I also found a driver issue with the Asrock a88x Extreme6+ USB3 driver in Windows 8.1. I had a couple system crashes due to "Kernel Power" and looking through the event viewer and there were USB driver errors before the crash. I reinstalled 8.1 using only the AMD chipset and Catalyst drivers and the Realtek audio (stock driver incompatible with VMware Linux machines) driver and everything is running great.

I don't understand why everyone is recommending disabling IOMMU. It is beneficial if you are running virtual machines.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> AmdMsrTweaker [email protected] Is 4.4 ghz at 1.4volts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the p4 state is the one the cpu downclocks when igpu is active


p5 state is the one Kaveri defaults to under iGPU load in Windows. Getting p4 throttling is hard. The only way I could do it was to run Prime95 Small FFTs and Furmark at the same time.


----------



## joeh4384

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> and overdrivehttp://www.amd.com/en-us/markets/game/downloads/overdrive
> it depends on your chip but you have to use amdamd overdrive to monitor it. I use hwinfo to monitor clocks and make sure nothing is throttling. I can run 4.5ghz and 900igpu (7650k) at 1.41vcore and 1.215 northbridge. Try manually setting your vcore in the bios maybe?
> 
> Edit:and overdrive give you the thermal margin reading for your whole apu. So if it says 62c on your cores then you have 62c of headroom.


Thanks, I updated my mobo bios and now GPUz is showing a reasonable GPU temp which should be the same as the CPU temp and they match the 70 minus head room on overdrive.


----------



## rebaygsda

i got silicone and plexiglass and plastic 70 spray or like pcb Paint i got allseason foam isulation spray. and drill i got second psu soon and the dual psu Connector thing and a vapochill xe 2







im taking this thing in my vapochill. i need some info how to raise ram above 2400 mhz i post results later


----------



## drmrlordx

There are basically two ways to OC your RAM past DDR3-2400 on the FM2+ platform:

1). Set the RAM to DDR3-2400 ratio and overclock bclk
2). Buy RAM with an XMP/AMP profile faster than DDR3-2400 and instruct the BIOS to set the memory speed/timings off the profile (and hope your board supports it; A88x-Pro or Crossblade Ranger recommended)

Good luck with bclk OC as well, it's very finicky, even on boards that can reliably accommodate it.


----------



## neilcezar

Hi,

I just built my RIG and this is the stable setup I was able to do. I can't raise my memory to run @2400mhz

Please check the configurations.

Thank you


----------



## DannyDK

Are your mem on the compatible list for 2400 with this motherboard?


----------



## neilcezar

Hi,

Where can I see the compatible memory for that motherboard?

I am using Kingston HyperX Beast 2400mhz

Thanks!


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neilcezar*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Where can I see the compatible memory for that motherboard?
> 
> I am using Kingston HyperX Beast 2400mhz
> 
> Thanks!


http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/?cat=Memory


----------



## Reckerr

APU PCIE Voltage VDDP.

I assume this isn't present in Gigabyte A88X-D3H boards uefi. Where can I see my voltage for this?


----------



## johndu13

i post here i hope not a mistake

hello
i need to know something please

1---->i listen when the GPU is in load , the CPU lost some hundred frequency
that's correct ?

do you find a solution ?

2-what's the best solution for the ram ?
because the cpu use 2133mhz
but a lot of motherboard can use 2600 mhz

someone test with this frequency ?

thank you


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reckerr*
> 
> APU PCIE Voltage VDDP.
> 
> I assume this isn't present in Gigabyte A88X-D3H boards uefi. Where can I see my voltage for this?


It might be there under a different name. My A88x-Pro doesn't have that setting either. I have VDDA and an APU1.2v or something like that. What settings do you have on your D3H? We can probably figure it out. Maybe.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johndu13*
> 
> i post here i hope not a mistake
> 
> hello
> i need to know something please
> 
> 1---->i listen when the GPU is in load , the CPU lost some hundred frequency
> that's correct ?
> 
> do you find a solution ?


That's normal under Windows. The CPU will run the CPU frequency from a p-state named p5, which varies based on which Kaveri APU you have. The 7850k defaults to 3 ghz in this state. You can defeat the behavior by changing the p5 state with a program called AMDmsrtweaker:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285742-AmdMsrTweaker-New-Versions

Quote:


> 2-what's the best solution for the ram ?
> because the cpu use 2133mhz
> but a lot of motherboard can use 2600 mhz


There is only one FM2+ motherboard that officially supports DDR3-2666, and that's the Asus Crossblade Ranger. Your best bet is to try and overclock your DDR3-2133 to DDR3-2400 and be happy with it. Overclocking RAM past 2400 on FM2+ is . . . somewhat complicated.


----------



## johndu13

and finally what's the result >


----------



## Reckerr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> It might be there under a different name. My A88x-Pro doesn't have that setting either. I have VDDA and an APU1.2v or something like that. What settings do you have on your D3H? We can probably figure it out. Maybe.


In my A88X-D3H,


**Default Photo**

Those are the only options in my bios that relate to any voltage. So, I don't think there is one.

Btw, if I fail a two cores after 2 hours with Prime95 and the other two cores went on for an additional 10 hours before I stopped it myself. Would you think that proper for everyday use? Not heavy gaming, just light enough for a 7850K to handle. I also don't plan to provide any computations for any projects.


----------



## johndu13

hi

what the best solution for the ddr3 ?

the cpu accept default 2133

8 go ? 16 go ?

cl9 ? 10 ?11 ?

thank you


----------



## Reckerr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johndu13*
> 
> hi
> 
> what the best solution for the ddr3 ?
> 
> the cpu accept default 2133
> 
> 8 go ? 16 go ?
> 
> cl9 ? 10 ?11 ?
> 
> thank you


Um the low CL the better. So 9 is always best but I don't think 9 will work at 2133. May be possible but idk. Not sure what you mean by 8go or 16go. If you mean Gb. Then 8 should be fine.


----------



## johndu13

thank you

so 2133 it's enough ?


----------



## Reckerr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johndu13*
> 
> thank you
> 
> so 2133 it's enough ?


Yup. Minimum for an APU should be 2133 if you are using the integrated graphics. If possible go 2400 once it's stable.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reckerr*
> 
> Yup. Minimum for an APU should be 2133 if you are using the integrated graphics. If possible go 2400 once it's stable.


From people posting gaming benchmarks there is a definite amount of diminishing returns past 1866.


----------



## DannyDK

2400mhz should help with bandwith and i know that you can get some with cl9, just dont know if they are supported by your motherboard. If you are going with a discret gpu then then i dont know how much (if any) you will get with 2400 over 2133, but allways check what is supported by your motherboard and get the ones with the highest freq and lowest cl


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> From people posting gaming benchmarks there is a definite amount of diminishing returns past 1866.


That is to be expected, especially at lower resolutions where the game may be less iGPU-limited than at higher resolutions. Regardless of the extent to which the game is GPU or CPU-limited, if the GPU is operating in a state of total bandwidth saturation (that is, it's using up all available bandwidth and would use more), then any curve showing performance as bandwidth increases will show diminishing improvement until you finally reach a bandwidth where the VRAM is no longer saturated. It will be more linear at higher resolutions where the GPU is the limiting factor, but it will still never be linear.


----------



## Reckerr

Well after some searching, it seems the A88x-D3H doesn't have access to all the features. Damn mediocre board.


----------



## johndu13

i bout this cpu .....

what mainboard do you think i must to choice ?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johndu13*
> 
> i bout this cpu .....
> 
> what mainboard do you think i must to choice ?


ASUS, Crossblade Ranger if you want a board with lots of goodies, or a A88X-PRO if you want something a little cheaper but with an excellent BIOS and really good build quality.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> ASUS, Crossblade Ranger if you want a board with lots of goodies, or a A88X-PRO if you want something a little cheaper but with an excellent BIOS and really good build quality.


This.

Both of these boards have high-quality 6+2 power phasing and are excellent for any Steamroller APU or Athlon. The Crossblade Ranger is a ROG board, and has the ROG BIOS and design scheme, and onboard sound that can compete with a discrete sound card. The A88X-PRO isn't ROG, and some people don't like its black-and-gold color scheme, but it does live up to its "Pro" designation.


----------



## vitamin1

And what about Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6+ mobo? Isn't it as good as those two from Asus? On paper (8+2 digital power design) it looks actually even better than current top Asus models. Has anyone got some experience with this Asrock motherboard?


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitamin1*
> 
> And what about Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6+ mobo? Isn't it as good as those two from Asus? On paper (8+2 digital power design) it looks actually even better than current top Asus models. Has anyone got some experience with this Asrock motherboard?


I believe that someone on here mentioned that it was in reality 4(with doublers)+2 or something like that, cant find the post sorry.


----------



## vitamin1

And how is your Killer board Danny?


----------



## ArcAudios

Vitamin1,

I have the ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ and consider it to be a great MB. This board is ideal for overclocking the FM2+ APU's, loads of connectivity options as well and it features the better placed Realtec 1150 sound which is actually a decent improvement over any previous iterations.
I had managed to get my A10-7850K to 4.76Ghz on this board, stable and tested. The 8+2 Digital Power Design seems well worth it for overclocking, that said I can't judge whether it's a 4(with doublers)+2 or not. Great Motherboard and I'd recommend it.
regards


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitamin1*
> 
> And what about Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6+ mobo? Isn't it as good as those two from Asus? On paper (8+2 digital power design) it looks actually even better than current top Asus models. Has anyone got some experience with this Asrock motherboard?


On paper maybe. I had an Extreme 6+ and there is NO real world comparison with the two ASUS boards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitamin1*
> 
> And what about Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6+ mobo? Isn't it as good as those two from Asus? On paper (8+2 digital power design) it looks actually even better than current top Asus models. Has anyone got some experience with this Asrock motherboard?


On paper maybe. I had an Extreme 6+ and there is NO real world comparison with the two ASUS boards. Look at the size of the ASUS chokes to what ASRock uses. The Stilt recommends these boards.


----------



## vitamin1

Thank you very much ArcAudios for the information on this board.

EDIT: Yes, I know The Stilt uses only Asus boards but how about
this result? If it was a bad quality board, this wouldn't be possible - isn't it?


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitamin1*
> 
> And how is your Killer board Danny?


Oh that rig is sold just havent deleted it yet sorry, but that board was actualy pretty good, could reach 4.6 for quick bench and 4.5 for gaming and no throtling (had a cooler master seidon 120m for it to keep the temps down).NB i couldnt get higher than 2000 and ram i was only able to get to 245x, but all in all a good board for money and it has great sound to, could realy hear a big differench in the bass area when there was explosions and such (in games, dont remember if there was a difference with music and movies though), i switched to an asus z97 sabertooth mk.1 and the explosions (coh2) was not as deep and "round".
The killer is as good as the asus gamer when it comes to overclocking the 7850k and its way easyer to


----------



## Gomi

My 3Dmark score ( Cloud Gate ) when running Hybrid crossfire with a R7 250:

11726

http://www.3dmark.com/cg/1779895

More than pleased with the results for such a lowbudget CPU and dGPU.

7850K @ 4.9Ghz (Vcore - 1.55)
Memore @ 2400Mhz CL9
NB @ 2400Mhz (NB voltage - 1.50)

IGPU and dGPU overclocked to 1100Mhz on the core and 1200Mhz on memory.

These settings were also BF4 stable.

And yes, that was on a Phase Change system tongue.gif

To be honest, Kaveri is prob. one is the funniest thing I had the pleasure to play with in a long long time - Intel gone so incredible dull, and having to balance the CPU, dGPU and iGPU is great fun - Especially when everything works together and starts flexing thumb.gif


----------



## vitamin1

Thank you Danny for your comments on that Killer board.

Gomi - could you give us please a short review of your Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 board? And BTW, where did you buy it? I thought that this boards were not available in Europe.


----------



## Reckerr

Me again. Ok, now I realise the throttling of 3Ghz can be edited by Pstates, but can someone give me a quick understandiing on how editing all the P states(not necessarily the turbo states) can make my system run cooler.

What I'm asking is, are P states triggered by temperature? If it's running cooler overall won't it limit itself at a certain state after I do the underclock/undervolt of all of them?

I'm asking this as my A88X-d3h from gigabte doesn't seem too good at all in terms of OC options. The Cpu/NB core voltage(seems like an offset) in the bios does nothing. I check many sensor/system checking softwares and it doesnt even recognise anything input there in the bios. Tried while running prime95 and without. Setting is like its invisible.

So i'll look at the P states now try to underclock it permanantly from there.

I don't need the 4ghz right now until I get a semi decent 212 Evo on sat and I want to toy with the CPU a bit to learn more.
So if I place it at for eg.

P7 [email protected]
P6 [email protected]
P5 [email protected]
P4 [email protected]
P3 [email protected]

all turbo options will be off. And those are stock voltages except for the 27x.

will that work properly for me? Reason I havn't tried it is because I want your opinion as knowledgable members first most imporantly before i do it....and I'm in my bed about to sleep.

Thanks. will check back later. Sorry for long wall, trying to learn.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ArcAudios*
> 
> Vitamin1,
> 
> I have the ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ and consider it to be a great MB. This board is ideal for overclocking the FM2+ APU's, loads of connectivity options as well and it features the better placed Realtec 1150 sound which is actually a decent improvement over any previous iterations.
> I had managed to get my A10-7850K to 4.76Ghz on this board, stable and tested. The 8+2 Digital Power Design seems well worth it for overclocking, that said I can't judge whether it's a 4(with doublers)+2 or not. Great Motherboard and I'd recommend it.
> regards


That's interesting. Yawa had fits with his. Sure, he could clock his chip above 4.5 ghz, but it has 0% scaling potential; that is, anything he ran at a speed higher than 4.5 ghz would return results identical to what he would get running 4.5 ghz. Have you tested for that on your system?


----------



## jason387

Has anyone managed 5Ghz on these chips?


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> Has anyone managed 5Ghz on these chips?


Its only possible on/with LN2


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Its only possible on/with LN2


Is persistence a good substitute?? Is it possible to clock the chip higher by not using the iGPU?


----------



## DannyDK

i Must admit i dont know but i would gues so since you dont need high voltage on the igpu so it wont run as hot as with using the igpu an d higher voltage, but you wont reach 5.0ghz even with igpu off if you dont use LN2. A good watercooler and a good board should let you reach 4.5 and maybe even 4.6, but then again no chip is the same so even with a good board and cooler you could (but not likely i think) be stock at 4.2. I mannaged to reach 4.6 for short benching without throttle issues and 4.5 for gaming, but that was when it was new, now it wont go higher than 4.4 (allmost a year and a half with "abuse" can do that to a chip). But if you want performance and havent bought a chip or any other hardware yet buy an i5, the cost for the 7850k and a good board and cooling will cost about the same than a standard 1150 board and an i5 and the i5 (44xx) will give better performance at stock.


----------



## videoman5

I got one of these chips+mobo for free.

Is 1.5v too much? I got an H100 running on it. With Deltas ripped from a server on the H100, so it's no slouch.


----------



## drmrlordx

1.5v isn't as high as some people push theirs. With cooling like that, you should be okay, at least for limited benching if not regular use for a year or two. Beyond that it might start to get creaky, but by that point . . . who would really care?


----------



## videoman5

I'm going to be using it for about 6 months at the most. So, 1.525v it is. I hit a brick wall at 1.485ish volts @ 4.6ghz (45*102) it seems. It's maxing out a 59C with iGPU on, so I'm good on temps.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Hi guys.

I'm by days reading the entire topic, considering every tip of every user to achiev a stable Kaveri with 2400Mhz Kingston Savage.

My actual BIOS settings is:

CPU Clock: 3.7Ghz (Stock)
NB: 1800 (Stock)
Vcore: Stock
NBvoltage: +0.78v increment. (i tested too with +0.150v but got Critical Corruption BS)
Memory: 2400 XMP 1.65v

I never get a 100% stable. There's a random bluescreen when i play some games (CPU "intensive" games, like CS Source) or rarely get browsing...

I already disabled C6 State, APM, but Turbo Core and Cool and Quiet i disabled sometime but i didn't make some tests.

What i have to do to stabilize this thing with 2400Mhz memories? Or i have to give up?

Anyway, thanks in advance.


----------



## jason387

I'm using savage ram and having the same problem. However, I'm also using a gigabyte mobo and from what I heard it's more of a Gigabyte Motherboard thing. It's best left at 2133Mhz.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm by days reading the entire topic, considering every tip of every user to achiev a stable Kaveri with 2400Mhz Kingston Savage.
> 
> My actual BIOS settings is:
> 
> CPU Clock: 3.7Ghz (Stock)
> NB: 1800 (Stock)
> Vcore: Stock
> NBvoltage: +0.78v increment. (i tested too with +0.150v but got Critical Corruption BS)
> Memory: 2400 XMP 1.65v
> 
> I never get a 100% stable. There's a random bluescreen when i play some games (CPU "intensive" games, like CS Source) or rarely get browsing...
> 
> I already disabled C6 State, APM, but Turbo Core and Cool and Quiet i disabled sometime but i didn't make some tests.
> 
> What i have to do to stabilize this thing with 2400Mhz memories? Or i have to give up?
> 
> Anyway, thanks in advance.


I think you need to loosen up the memory timings a bit to get better stability. I have the same memory (Kingston HuperX Savage 2400MHz XMP 2x8GB), and I had to set the memory timings manually. The XMP profile is 11-14-14-33, command rate 1T and I set it to 11-13-14-35, command rate 2T.
I read about the differences between AMP and XMP profiles, and found that tRAS timing needs a bit of loosening up because AMD memory controllers need looser timings.
I have a A10-7870K at 4GHz @1.35V, 2000MHz [email protected]


----------



## Katsutoshi

Oh. Thank you Jason387 and MatrixDecker.

I'm using already at 2133Mhz... But i will try once again with the hints of MatrixDecker.

And, to achiev a stable system with 2400mhz is necessary overclock NB to 2000 ?

And, what software you use to see the NB voltages? I used HWInfo but he only shows unprecise data about this


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> And, to achiev a stable system with 2400mhz is necessary overclock NB to 2000 ?
> 
> And, what software you use to see the NB voltages? I used HWInfo but he only shows unprecise data about this


I think I read somewhere that for 2400MHz memory you need 2000MHz NB (probably from The Stilt, but I'm not sure).

You can use AMD Overdrive to see set and actual CPU and NB voltages (still not the actual readings). Just don't use it for overclocking on newer APUs.


----------



## jason387

I've tried with the NB even at 2100Mhz. Matrix are you using a Gigabyte mobo?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> I've tried with the NB even at 2100Mhz. Matrix are you using a Gigabyte mobo?


No, right now I'm using the rig from the signature. I used a G1.Sniper before but I didn't have this memory to test it with.

I found the article concerning XMP and AMP profiles: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ddr-dram-faq,4154.html


----------



## Katsutoshi

Cool.

Well i did what you say and, at least until now, no performance problems and no stutters too.

But i will test more to confirm.

I will try to keep NB at 1800 (stock cooler, so i'm afraid to overclock) and then i will se later with 2000.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> Cool.
> 
> Well i did what you say and, at least until now, no performance problems and no stutters too.
> 
> But i will test more to confirm.
> 
> I will try to keep NB at 1800 (stock cooler, so i'm afraid to overclock) and then i will se later with 2000.


Try running IBT test with a lot of memory tested (High preset) for 10-15 minutes (10 rounds or more) to verify everything is stable.

If you are using stock CPU cooler, you could turn off Turbo, set the base CPU clock to 3.9-4.0 and undervolt the top P-States (less than 1.35V) to use less power and leave more juice for the GPU.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Try running IBT test with a lot of memory tested (High preset) for 10-15 minutes (10 rounds or more) to verify everything is stable.
> 
> If you are using stock CPU cooler, you could turn off Turbo, set the base CPU clock to 3.9-4.0 and undervolt the top P-States (less than 1.35V) to use less power and leave more juice for the GPU.


Oh, thanks again!.

I'm a newbie on overclock, and more about APUs.

I will do this now and post if everything is fine...


----------



## The Stilt

NCLK to MEMCLK requirements on 15h designs:

00-0Fh (Bulldozer, Piledriver) - Min NCLK = * 2 MEMCLK (DDR-2133 = 2200MHz NCLK)
10-1Fh (Piledriver) - Min NCLK = 1.25 * MEMCLK (DDR-2133 = 1400MHz NCLK)
30-3Fh (Steamroller) - Min NCLK = >= MEMCLK (DDR-2133 = 1100MHz NCLK)
60-6Fh (Excavator) - Min NCLK = >= MEMCLK (DDR-2133 = 1100MHz NCLK)


----------



## Katsutoshi

I think is everything fine.

IBT still running and i will wait to finish the runs.

Later i will do what MatrixDecker sair and ser the results...

EDIT: Finished the IBT. No errors, but in game still have crashes (but no BSODs).

Can i disable the Turbo and keep the CnQ? Because if i make the CPU be always on 3.9-4.0 the cooler makes a loud sound.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> EDIT: Finished the IBT. No errors, but in game still have crashes (but no BSODs).
> 
> Can i disable the Turbo and keep the CnQ? Because if i make the CPU be always on 3.9-4.0 the cooler makes a loud sound.


That's the general idea. Disable Turbo, leave C'n'Q. That way you don't get stuttering in game when the CPU drops from Turbo to base clock. If your CPU can't handle those frequencies (due to stock cooler), you can try 3.7 or 3.8 GHz with even lower voltage (1.25 - 1.3 V) to lower the power usage even more.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Well. i reached 3.9 and 4.0 with no problems. I think i will leave 4.0 and start monitoring the temps.

Now i don't have any crashes, but using the iGP memory at default using 1 GB of RAM to video. If i use 2 GB, just CS Source crashed. GTA 5, TW3 and others i can play normally.

And unfortunately i can't undervolt at BIOS... i think this is the limitation of my gigabyte motherboard









I think i'm done of resources. Now browsing, watching videos, etc, the PC is pretty stable. Just CSS i have random crashes, but the rest of the games runs smoothly.

I want to thank MatrixDecker and the others who leaves a lot of information here.


----------



## Katsutoshi

I saw something strange.

Using stock NB VID and adding little by little seems to not change the VID at all.

AMD Overdrive always shows 1.137V. What the hell is happening?


----------



## 7850K

I've never trusted AMD overdrive's voltage readings


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> I saw something strange.
> 
> Using stock NB VID and adding little by little seems to not change the VID at all.
> 
> AMD Overdrive always shows 1.137V. What the hell is happening?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I've never trusted AMD overdrive's voltage readings


If you are looking at AMD Overdrive CPU Status pane the VID seems to max out at the DEFAULT VID of your cpu if you use a dynamic setting like an offset. If your voltage is fixed the reading just stays at the default VID.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Oh, thank you for the information.

I downgraded my bios to F7 version and it seems more stable than F8 (F2A88XM-D3H here).

Using 2400mhz XMP with all things at default (except APM, C6 State and other things) and until now, no crashes and no BSOD.


----------



## Steele84

To achieve 2400MHz memory speed I had to bump my NB freq to 2100 MHz


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> To achieve 2400MHz memory speed I had to bump my NB freq to 2100 MHz


Is that 2400Mhz Ram stable when both the CPU and GPU are overclocked to their maximum? Like the CPU at 4.5Ghz and the iGPU at 1040Mhz? It's possible to get 2400Mhz working but not alongside max CPU and iGPU overclocks.


----------



## warpuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> Is that 2400Mhz Ram stable when both the CPU and GPU are overclocked to their maximum? Like the CPU at 4.5Ghz and the iGPU at 1040Mhz? It's possible to get 2400Mhz working but not alongside max CPU and iGPU overclocks.


I am sitting on the fence between waiting for the next Desktop AM1 CPU or going with FM2.

Are some of the motherboards and chipsets better with NB memory link speeds than others ? I have done a lot of fiddling around with AMD 8 core and have found out that memory speed and link speed are areas as important as much as CPU speed when using R9 285s in crossfire. I expect AMD APUs would be about the same. I may crossfire with matching discrete R7s if needed. My target is a MIDI/DAW unit with a touch screen monitor in a mini tower case. My water cooled 8 core can get the job done, but a 70 lb box and a 27" monitor is not exactly portable. Should I wait, or go with the speediest AMD APU ? I have Wintel laptops but I don't like the OS that came with them, plus I don't like Macs.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> Is that 2400Mhz Ram stable when both the CPU and GPU are overclocked to their maximum? Like the CPU at 4.5Ghz and the iGPU at 1040Mhz? It's possible to get 2400Mhz working but not alongside max CPU and iGPU overclocks.


My CPU is at 4.3 and I can't remember were I settled with the iGPU. I'll have to take a look tonight and get back to ya. Thermals were an issue when stressing past 4.3, poor cooling, poor case.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> I am sitting on the fence between waiting for the next Desktop AM1 CPU or going with FM2.
> 
> Are some of the motherboards and chipsets better with NB memory link speeds than others ? I have done a lot of fiddling around with AMD 8 core and have found out that memory speed and link speed are areas as important as much as CPU speed when using R9 285s in crossfire. I expect AMD APUs would be about the same. I may crossfire with matching discrete R7s if needed. My target is a MIDI/DAW unit with a touch screen monitor in a mini tower case. My water cooled 8 core can get the job done, but a 70 lb box and a 27" monitor is not exactly portable. Should I wait, or go with the speediest AMD APU ? I have Wintel laptops but I don't like the OS that came with them, plus I don't like Macs.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> I am sitting on the fence between waiting for the next Desktop AM1 CPU or going with FM2.
> 
> Are some of the motherboards and chipsets better with NB memory link speeds than others ? I have done a lot of fiddling around with AMD 8 core and have found out that memory speed and link speed are areas as important as much as CPU speed when using R9 285s in crossfire. I expect AMD APUs would be about the same. I may crossfire with matching discrete R7s if needed. My target is a MIDI/DAW unit with a touch screen monitor in a mini tower case. My water cooled 8 core can get the job done, but a 70 lb box and a 27" monitor is not exactly portable. Should I wait, or go with the speediest AMD APU ? I have Wintel laptops but I don't like the OS that came with them, plus I don't like Macs.


Heatsinks on the MOSFETs are key to they mb with this chip mainly since we have to OC the NB to get the desired RAM frequency. The board I have "GA-72A88X-UP4" has this cooling, other than that I have seen pretty good success with various boards and manufacturers. I'm actually looking for a good micro-ATX or ITX board to move this chip into for my new HTPC. HTPC is what this CPU is going to be used for in my case.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Guys, i think i figure out how to stabilize 2400Mhz on Gigabyte motherboards.

I have a GA-F2A88XM-D3H and tried so many times to make everything stable with 2400Mhz memory. So what i did was put +0.015v on Northbridge and disable APM, C6 State, SVM and Turbo Core and fixed the CPU clock in 3.7 Ghz.

I think this is a workaround for this model of motherboard because, if you put more voltage on whatever you need, the motherboard appears to not do this in any way. Any monitor software will everytime show the stock voltages.

So resuming: I think i put down the CPU consumption to leave more power to northbridge to handle the memory controller. Now all task are 100% stable and no crashes at all.

I think what i have to say to finish this reply is: If you want to use 2400+ Mhz memories with an APU, you have to choose another model or another brand, because this board in specific is very capped with options of overclock and the worst is the thing you modify the settings and the motherboad "don't send" more power for whatever you want.

Maybe i'm wrong too...maybe this is my PSU fault, but... i leave here my experience...


----------



## jason387

Its easy to run 2400Mhz with the CPU at stock or slight OCs but as you go higher on the CPU and GPU the Ram frequency of 2400Mhz becomes unstable.


----------



## ChrisB17

What DDR3-2400 16gb kit do you guys recommend for Asus Crossblade ranger + AMD 7870k?

Thanks


----------



## drmrlordx

I do not have that particular combo, though I do have an A88x-Pro so I'm close-ish.

I got some Silicon Power DDR3-2400 CL11, and it'll easily do DDR3-2400 CL10 @ 1.7v vDIMM. It should be the same ICs as in the Adata XPG v2 series DIMMs. Not really the best, but you could do worse.

The best I've been able to do raw-speed wise is DDR3-2640, which introduces all kinds of other problems since my NB stability goes to hell once I go over 100 mhz bclk. That may be more unique to my chip than anything else.

If all you're looking for is stable operation at DDR3-2400, it'll get you there, and it was pretty cheap when I bought it. It (the Silicon Power) has the added advantage of not having huge, obnoxious memory heatsinks, making it fit easily underneath the NH-D14, NH-D15, etc.

In terms of prices . . .

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/memory/#s=302400&Z=16384002&sort=a10&page=1

. . . lots of DDR3-2400 16Gb kits are running in the $100 range. Pretty impressive, and great for Kaveri owners. The Silicon Power that I have is down to $86 which is one heck of a bargain. There might be some better memory in there, but I doubt you'll find anything significantly cheaper.


----------



## ChrisB17

I am mostly looking for stability + Compatibility for my setup. For 24/7 stability.

I had these kits picked out but wasn't sure about them,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233585

Or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104520


----------



## drmrlordx

Well I can tell you the Silicon Power will run on an Asus A88x-Pro @ DDR3-2400 CL10 with 1.7v vDIMM. No problemo. I expect the Crossblade Ranger would take to it just as well. The only better deal you can find is something that will do CL9, which is something I can't do with the Silicon Power kit.


----------



## Steele84

G.Skill Trident X 2400 10-12-12-31

Different MB but these are what I used and they have been stable 24/7


----------



## warpuck

How about this combo for a DAW (MIDI box) running a touch screen ?
I think it should do OK on the latency. No hit key on the board and 1/2 secs later sound comes out the speakers ?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/TemporaryWishList.aspx


----------



## Antare

Check ASUS website of your motherboard to determine the RAM that ASUS has tested to work at 2400mhz for best result.


----------



## warpuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> How about this combo for a DAW (MIDI box) running a touch screen ?
> I think it should do OK on the latency. No hit key on the board and 1/2 secs later sound comes out the speakers ?
> 
> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/TemporaryWishList.aspx


Would a 840K and a HD 7790 work better than a A10-7850 ?


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> Would a 840K and a HD 7790 work better than a A10-7850 ?


I believe the 840 is a non K and therefor can not be overclocked so it will be better to go for the 860K


----------



## drmrlordx

The only way to overlock the 840 is via bclk which is sometimes very difficult. The only "reliable" way to do it is with all-USB storage.


----------



## DannyDK

Anyone that can tell me how much watt is being used when @ 4.5ghz 1.5V?
Just aprox.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Anyone that can tell me how much watt is being used when @ 4.5ghz 1.5V?
> Just aprox.


If you have an Asus board there's a wattage field on the CPU frequency tab in AI Suite III.
* * *
Ok. I've just tried an A10-7870K at 4500MHz (100x45) by 1.4875V in Prime95 and the reading of 200x22.5 got up to 86.7Watts.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> If you have an Asus board there's a wattage field on the CPU frequency tab in AI Suite III.
> * * *
> Ok. I've just tried an A10-7870K at 4500MHz (100x45) by 1.4875V in Prime95 and the reading of 200x22.5 got up to 86.7Watts.


What when idle?


----------



## Himo5

When idle, thanks to CPB/C6/PowerNow & etc. it drops back to 1700MHz-0.92V and runs at 200x8.5, varying between 10 and 16 watts.


----------



## DannyDK

I think i have read some place (back a while) that it could use up to 125W @4.5 (cant remember if that was with igpu enabled and overclocked, its a while since i believe i have read it). Whole reason for asking is a friend have a build with a 7850K @4.5, Asus gamer motherboard, 1 SSD, 1 HDD, Wi-Fi card, 2x4gb RAM, 280x Royalqueen (stock), Coolermaster seidon 120 watercooler, DVD burner drive + 1x120mm case exhaust fan and everything is powered by a 500W OCZ 80+ Bronze PSU, which falls short some 2-6Amp when it comes to the GPU and i was wondering if this PSU is at all enough (besides the Amp shortage for the GPU) to run this system when playing games? Hes got problems now with the games just closing and the only message he gets is "the game(titel) has stopped working", so he got a clean install of Win10 but the problem is still there :-(


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Anyone that can tell me how much watt is being used when @ 4.5ghz 1.5V?
> Just aprox.


Depending on leakage, around 85W in real world multithreaded workloads (eg. Cinebench R11.5) and around 106W in Prime95. That applies at default load-line only.

You shouldn´t see more than 135W from the VRM input (EPS 12V).


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Depending on leakage, around 85W in real world multithreaded workloads (eg. Cinebench R11.5) and around 106W in Prime95. That applies at default load-line only.
> 
> You shouldn´t see more than 135W from the VRM input (EPS 12V).


LLC is set to seccond highest on the Asus Gamer (4+2) board, so i should expect to see some 125W max?


----------



## The Stilt

Around 5% more than at default setting.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Around 5% more than at default setting.


Can you help me with this: post #1105


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Can you help me with this: post #1105


"OCZ" PSUs are generally POS, however I don´t think even OCZ has a 500W PSU crappy enough to cause problems on a system like this.
The system shouldn´t require more than <32A from the 12V rail in full load (excl. Prime95 and Furmark scenarios).

I´m 95% sure that the instability is caused by the CPU or the memory.
7850Ks usually max out 4200 - 4300MHz, so 4500MHz is extremely unlikely to be stable.
Basically anything that requires over 1.45V can never be fully stable as at that point the design has already been maxed out.

I would personally drop the CPU frequency to 4300MHz and test again.
If it still fails I would take a look at the memory settings.


----------



## DannyDK

Ok, will set it back to 4.3ghz - 1.45V.
Its my old APU and i had it running @4.5ghz for more than a year and worked realy well on the Asrock Killer board, i had a Saphire 280 OC´ed paired with it and a Corsair CX500 for PSU and also a CM Seidon 120 watercooler, i even had it @ 4.5ghz, but it ran too hot with that CM and would shut down the PC when playing BF4 on 64 servers. Other than that i never had a problem with it. Maybe its getting a bit long in tooth after 20 months of running OC´ed. I know he is waiting for the 870K to be released and we are both lokking forward to see some stable 4.6/4.7ghz with that and im happy to hear that the OCZ PSU should be enough for the build that he has now. I ran CB R15 and got 381 score with it @ 4.5ghz just two days ago, only did it once so i didnt go for higher score than that, dont know if it could have been possible as 381 @ 4.5ghz would/should/could show that it didnt throttle (in CB R15 that is). But thats just one benche test and we/i didnt had time for more in depth testing. What would be the best bench test for checking overclock stability, Prime95?

Ntw.
Thank you for taking time to answer me.


----------



## The Stilt

Prime95 is the way to go, as long as the VRM can handle it without cooking off.
When the stable limits have been reached, Steamroller CPUs crash very differently than any other AMD CPUs.
Instead of giving errors in Prime or causing a BSOD they usually simply halt. They might run error free for hours and then suddenly halt, without any obvious reason. As far as I know this behavior is caused by the process characteristics and L2 cache power management combined.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Prime95 is the way to go, as long as the VRM can handle it without cooking off.
> When the stable limits have been reached, Steamroller CPUs crash very differently than any other AMD CPUs.
> Instead of giving errors in Prime or causing a BSOD they usually simply halt. They might run error free for hours and then suddenly halt, without any obvious reason. As far as I know this behavior is caused by the process characteristics and L2 cache power management combined.


Any way to avoid that?


----------



## Himo5

Mind you, there's a kind of graduation in that since the closer you increment to the correct voltage the more likely you are to get to a P95 error - with a blue screen - which may or may not successfully count up to a relaunch - on the way there if you are OCing over the top.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Any way to avoid that?


Sure.
By buying a Piledriver based CPU


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> When the stable limits have been reached, Steamroller CPUs crash very differently than any other AMD CPUs.
> Instead of giving errors in Prime or causing a BSOD they usually simply halt. They might run error free for hours and then suddenly halt, without any obvious reason. As far as I know this behavior is caused by the process characteristics and L2 cache power management combined.


I have also noticed this. It's progressive, one by one the windows stop updating (some system process seizing up), and then the computer just sits there. Once, while I was testing for minimum stable voltages and the limit was coming up, I saw that the lock-up was coming and stopped the test sucessfully (IBT AVX in my case). I restarted the computer anyway


----------



## Steele84

Who is all having luck with OC'ing with a mirco-atx board? I need to move to a matx board, but I don't want to sacrifice much of my OC. Thanks


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> Who is all having luck with OC'ing with a mirco-atx board? I need to move to a matx board, but I don't want to sacrifice much of my OC. Thanks


There are no Micro-ATX overclocking AM3+ boards. You are lucky to run a cpu stock. There are darn few good overclocking full ATX AM3+ boards to be honest.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> There are no Micro-ATX overclocking AM3+ boards. You are lucky to run a cpu stock. There are darn few good overclocking full ATX AM3+ boards to be honest.


A10 APUs run on socket FM2. I'm thinking The MSI A88XM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130755


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> A10 APUs run on socket FM2. I'm thinking The MSI A88XM


Actually (adjusts glasses) Kaveri APUs require FM2+ motherboards. Joking aside, according to The Stilt, it is very important to have a digital VRM section if you want to overclock. I looked through the official page for this MSI board and I couldn't find anything about the VRMs. More research required.

There is a Gigabyte board (with digital VRMs) that other people recommended before: GA-F2A88XN-WIFI.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Actually (adjusts glasses) Kaveri APUs require FM2+ motherboards. Joking aside, according to The Stilt, it is very important to have a digital VRM section if you want to overclock. I looked through the official page for this MSI board and I couldn't find anything about the VRMs. More research required.
> 
> There is a Gigabyte board (with digital VRMs) that other people recommended before: GA-F2A88XN-WIFI.


Thanks, I will have to do some research on VRM, as I'm not very knowledgeable with how is plays into OC'ing. So if I understand this correctly the VRM will either be digital or analog correct, and the CPU will receive power in a different way by each signal type ?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> Thanks, I will have to do some research on VRM, as I'm not very knowledgeable with how is plays into OC'ing. So if I understand this correctly the VRM will either be digital or analog correct, and the CPU will receive power in a different way by each signal type ?


As far as I understand, the VRM controllers can be digital or analog, and the digital ones have advantages and disadvantages in comparison to the analog ones. In case of Kaveri APUs it seems that digital VRM controllers are preferred, especially if you plan on overclocking.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> There are no Micro-ATX overclocking AM3+ boards. You are lucky to run a cpu stock. There are darn few good overclocking full ATX AM3+ boards to be honest.


I guess I should have read the title of the thread. Thought we were talking about FX cpu's and not FM2+ stuff. Anyway. I think the point still stands. My A10-7870 or 860K's benefit from being in boards like my Crossblade Ranger and UP4 and A88X-PRO. As opposed to a 3+1 or 4+1 Micro ATX board.


----------



## Steele84

Yeah my 7850k is currently in a GA-72A88x-UP4 and it runs great, however the focus of this chip (soon to be old chip) was to end up in a Corsair Carbide Micro tower as a HTPC. I'm still moving forward but I'm selling the 7850k and getting a 7870k, so same deal really. I'm fairly sure that I'm going to go with the MSI A78M-E45 V2 but I'm bummed that the board only offically allows ram at 2133.mhz. My last build worked awesome with Gskill Trident's at 2400MHZ.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> Yeah my 7850k is currently in a GA-72A88x-UP4 and it runs great, however the focus of this chip (soon to be old chip) was to end up in a Corsair Carbide Micro tower as a HTPC. I'm still moving forward but I'm selling the 7850k and getting a 7870k, so same deal really. I'm fairly sure that I'm going to go with the MSI A78M-E45 V2 but I'm bummed that the board only offically allows ram at 2133.mhz. My last build worked awesome with Gskill Trident's at 2400MHZ.


How does the motherboard exactly affect the supported RAM speeds on the FM2+ platform? Memory controller is on the APU chip and there is no northbridge on the motherboard.

If you read the FM2+ motherboard specs carefully, 2400 MHz memory is always considered OC, even for the more expensive models. That motherboard will probably support 2400 MHz


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> How does the motherboard exactly affect the supported RAM speeds on the FM2+ platform? Memory controller is on the APU chip and there is no northbridge on the motherboard.
> 
> If you read the FM2+ motherboard specs carefully, 2400 MHz memory is always considered OC, even for the more expensive models. That motherboard will probably support 2400 MHz


I was strictly going off the site, and I verified at MSI's site.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130853


----------



## ChrisB17

Got a question for you guys. So my sig rig is working flawlessly









Weird thing is though after I restart the PC (Windows 10, start- reset) I get a q-code 66. Even with that code the PC works perfectly. Usually it is FF after cold start up, But after reset I get the 66??

66 is a "DXE Core has started" from manual. And board has newest BIOS.


----------



## Steele84

Q-Code error 66 is something to do with memory correct ? If so drop your mem down to 2133 and see if you still get the error.


----------



## ChrisB17

Thats the part I dont understand. The memory tests all stable, Game stable etc... 100% stable, It only happens after I reboot. On cold boot it is usually AA

*edit* fixed the issue by disabling hibernation in windows 10 which is defaulted on. Weird issue but semi ez fix!


----------



## Steele84

Glad you got it fixed, maybe its a bug with w10.


----------



## ChrisB17

Yea I think so to. Never seen that until win 10. That said I love win 10 still


----------



## Zyro71

The magical wonders of windows 10.

It's interesting as my APU has performed a little better on 10 but has given me no reason to upgrade yet

Anyway, I do hope that AMD's Zen won't be this difficult to overclock at all.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Hey guys.

After a long time, i give up to run my APU with 2400 Mhz, so i'm using with 2133Mhz.

But days ago i tried to undervolt and i think i got some cool results.

http://imgur.com/Ua31tum

Look to the P3 and P4 states. Turbo, C6, APM Disabled. Just CnQ enabled.

What you guys think? It's cool to use with these voltages? The system is rock solid for any tasks i think (i didn't tried any CPU stress test, but for gaming is very stable).

I'm asking because i have a Gigabyte motherboard and i think i saw someone saying the GB uses insanes values for APU.


----------



## drmrlordx

Those volts are pretty normal for anyone that tunes and tweaks for optimal clockspeed-per-volt. I've had my Kaveri run 3.4 GHZ @ 1.075v vcore before, so you can actually get your voltages lower than the ones you've posted, potentially.

Of course, I was only running DDR3-1600 so you might not get your volts that low with the RAM running that fast.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Hmmm... Interesting.

Thanks for the information.

I'm thinking to overclock the CPU to 3.9 Ghz. So maybe i have to raise the volts? or there's no gain overclocking Kaveri? Because this motherboard is very annoying to overclock anything related to GPU or the Northbridge. Last time i tried to overclock the GPU to 866 Mhz and use with 2133Mhz RAM and got crashes and BSOD while gaming Or when i tried to overclock the NB to 2000Mhz and got BSOD too.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> Hmmm... Interesting.
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> I'm thinking to overclock the CPU to 3.9 Ghz. So maybe i have to raise the volts? or there's no gain overclocking Kaveri? Because this motherboard is very annoying to overclock anything related to GPU or the Northbridge. Last time i tried to overclock the GPU to 866 Mhz and use with 2133Mhz RAM and got crashes and BSOD while gaming Or when i tried to overclock the NB to 2000Mhz and got BSOD too.


I think the best results you can get would be to leave the GPU clocks stock (NB aslo), OC the CPU slightly (up to 4.1-4.2 GHz), and get the memory running as fast as possible. Don't use BIOS to overclock the CPU, rather use AMD MSR Tweaker to set P-States.

Start with everything stock and disable CBM (Turbo core). Then try to get the memory working as fast as possible (up to 2400 MHz). If you have Intel XMP profiles on your memory, you might need to loosen the memory timings slightly (the last timing might need to go up a couple of increments, from ~32 to 35). Then test, test, test (3DMark 2006 GT1 and 3DMark 2011 for overall stability of APU seems to work well). Only then try to overclock the CPU (you should be able to reach 3.9 with stock voltage, AMD is very conservative with voltages).


----------



## RabbitRu

I fixed my cpu at 4.0 ghz
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> Hey guys.
> 
> After a long time, i give up to run my APU with 2400 Mhz, so i'm using with 2133Mhz.
> 
> But days ago i tried to undervolt and i think i got some cool results.
> 
> http://imgur.com/Ua31tum
> 
> Look to the P3 and P4 states. Turbo, C6, APM Disabled. Just CnQ enabled.
> 
> What you guys think? It's cool to use with these voltages? The system is rock solid for any tasks i think (i didn't tried any CPU stress test, but for gaming is very stable).
> 
> I'm asking because i have a Gigabyte motherboard and i think i saw someone saying the GB uses insanes values for APU.


I have lowered voltages on my cpu at 4.0ghz(turbo off) and its rock solid, tryed both stress tests and gaming with discrete gpu(7870) http://imgur.com/umD4Dpu (I see, my P3&P4 are higher, but in bios I can only change the biggest voltage and I dislike software overclock\undervolt)
Then I was using the iGPU I was able to overclock it to 1020mhz, cpu to 4.5 ghz and NB to 2ghz w\o overheating and I had no problems with overclocking my memory (2*4gb+2*2gb hynix) to 2400 with 12-14-13-28-1 timings
My mb is Asus A88XM-PLUS
Here are the proofs of overclock http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1765725 http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/455796

Here is a nice arcticle about A10-7850K overclocking(it's written is russian, but you can just look at graphs, they say everything whats needed or just use google translate) http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/62810_2/Izuchenie_njuansov_razgona_processorov_AMD_Kaveri.html


----------



## Katsutoshi

Thank you guys for a lot of informations.

I think i did too much now.









http://imgur.com/a/J57ki

Look at the game screenshot, the cores, only 2 is running at 3 Ghz (the P5 state). I think i lowered the volts too much...

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. I rebooted the PC and all clocks are normal now









But RabbitRu, my MoBo is a F2A88XM-D3H, and it's a bad motherboard for overclocking. If you change anythink related to increase the voltages, nothing reflects at system when you check with any software. The only way i can see i adjusting the volts are at AMD MSR Tweaker.

And MatrixDecker if i use Memtest86, it's a good way to know if im stable with 2400Mhz ? In memtest86 i get a lot of errors at this freq. but with 2133Mhz i get no errors...

I'm thinking about to buy another motherboard with better support to run my RAM sticks at 2400Mhz, but now all i can do is play with AMD MSR Tweaker.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> And MatrixDecker if i use Memtest86, it's a good way to know if im stable with 2400Mhz ? In memtest86 i get a lot of errors at this freq. but with 2133Mhz i get no errors...
> 
> I'm thinking about to buy another motherboard with better support to run my RAM sticks at 2400Mhz, but now all i can do is play with AMD MSR Tweaker.


Memtest86 is a bit outdated for modern PCs, because stability of modern systems must be tested under combined loads (something that taxes CPU+GPU+RAM). Memtest86 is only a first step in testing the stability, as it can only detect outright memory defects . Then you need to test with something that will stress test the GPU and CPU, hence 3DMark. The Stilt recommends 2006 GT-1 and 2011. You could also try running other GPU heavy benchmarks and game benchmarks in a loop, for 20-30 minutes at least.

If you have errors on the Memtest86, you need to try looser memory timings. Can you give us your XMP memory timings for 2133 and 2400 MHz?

You could also try tighter LLC settings for NB voltage (Gigabyte settings of 'Low', or 'Medium').


----------



## Katsutoshi

In Memtest86 i have problems with 2400Mhz only in a 64-bit test (in 50% of the test but i forgot the right name, but i will get later).

My XMP profiles are:

2133: 11-13-13-30-48
2400: 11-13-14-32-55

I tried loosening the timings, even 15-16-17-35 and got errors in Memtest86 (but didn't stressed with 3DMark). I'm loosening too much? Or i can go further?

After i fixed in BIOS the CPU and NB VID to +0.000, LLC to Standard, i didn't got crashes in most games. Games like GTA V, The Witcher 3, MGS5, Mad Max when the memories start to fail, i got some shadows flickering. But in Dota 2 or Counter-Strike Source/GO with Skype i have a certain crash or a bluescreen with a random error.


----------



## drmrlordx

Loosening timings does not always help. You may need more voltage to the RAM and/or NB.


----------



## Katsutoshi

It is a good idea to put more voltage through AMD MSR Tweaker? Like i said before, put more voltage through BIOS does nothing in this motherboard... the things who works is raise the clocks, timings and ram voltage.

I will try to put more in NB first. What is the limit for Kaveri? Sometimes NB already reach 1.250v stock... but only for a few of seconds...


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> In Memtest86 i have problems with 2400Mhz only in a 64-bit test (in 50% of the test but i forgot the right name, but i will get later).
> 
> My XMP profiles are:
> 
> 2133: 11-13-13-30-48
> 2400: 11-13-14-32-55
> 
> I tried loosening the timings, even 15-16-17-35 and got errors in Memtest86 (but didn't stressed with 3DMark). I'm loosening too much? Or i can go further?
> 
> After i fixed in BIOS the CPU and NB VID to +0.000, LLC to Standard, i didn't got crashes in most games. Games like GTA V, The Witcher 3, MGS5, Mad Max when the memories start to fail, i got some shadows flickering. But in Dota 2 or Counter-Strike Source/GO with Skype i have a certain crash or a bluescreen with a random error.


I think that there is no point in loosening the memory timings further than 15-16-17-35. If it isn't working like that, it's not working (at least at those voltages).

You can try adding an +0.050V NB voltage offset in the BIOS (Kaveri refresh has 1.225V default NB voltage). I would not mess with NB voltage and frequency from the OS, only the BIOS. On the other hand, using AMD MSR Tweaker (or another utility like that) to set CPU P-States looks to be the recommended method for Kaveri chips.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Thank you guys for the hints...

I'm using now with 2400 Mhz RAM.

I tested adding +0.050V, but it was a instant bluescreen when i tried to start the test with 3DMark11. So added only +0.018v (this motherboard only have 0.006v increments). Then the RAM i put 1.66v and didn't touched the timings. Then i setup NB LLC to LOW.

After that applied the AMD MSR Tweaker settings and i'm testing if i see any errors. Until now, i ran a 40-50 minutes of 3DMark11 and no artifacts and in dota 2 played a match with bots and no problems too. But later i will do more extensive tests to certainly conclude if the system is stable.

But in advance, i thank all of you for helping me with valuable information. I'll keep posting the results...


----------



## Steele84

What's your nb frequency?


----------



## Katsutoshi

NB: 1800

If i raise the NB, certainly i will get unstable system... well, now i can't say that 100% certain, but it happened before, so...


----------



## Steele84

I couldn't get stable at 2400mhz without 2000 (haven't found anyone yet that has been able to get 2400mhz w/o the NB bumb). It's not the ram.


----------



## Katsutoshi

The main problem here: The BIOS seems not to overvolt for CPU and NB. When, for example, adds +0.050, when you check the values in any software, seems the overvolt didn't worked. If works, you don't have any signal of any monitor software to see how your APU is reacting when the clocks goes up and down.

That's my problem with this specific motherboard (F2A88XM-D3H), it have a overclocker grade chipset, but don't have options and a good BIOS to do this. So for CPU, i have to play around with AMD MSR Tweaker, because this way i can see the results...

But yes, i eventually will try NB at 2000Mhz if my actual configs shows unstable. But if i want to have better results, i think i have to buy another brand/model...

And i was thinking too... maybe my PSU is the culprit too... i have a EVGA 430W and some reviews don't say good things about it...


----------



## Katsutoshi

Well. I got some results.
TEST 1: RAM 2400MHz-1.66v / NB 1800
Seems pretty stable. Just a random freeze on online games. The others, no strange shadows blinking until now. But this random freeze i got too with all things in stock... But i will count as a issue because i don't know the cause.

TEST 2: RAM 2400MHz-1.66v / NB 2000
No strange shadows, but crashed online games.

TEST 3: RAM 2400-1.65v / NB 1800
Running 3DMark11 until now and no issues. But online games the driver stopped working and recovered in time, so that's a crash, but the game didn't closed and no BSOD.

I think i'm close to be stable...


----------



## Steele84

Awesome!







are you OC'ing the GPU side of this chip ?


----------



## Katsutoshi

No. I didn't overclocked the GPU.

In the past days, when i touched the GPU clock or the NB, eventually i got a BSOD or a crash. I don't know if the fault is because the mobo doesn't regulate the voltages correctly. I even tried to "transform" my Kaveri to a Godavari (just raising the CPU clock to 3.9 and the GPU to 866). The CPU worked perfectly, but the GPU side even raising some volts i get some crashes and BSOD (only in games).

And maybe this is only working now because i the script to undervolt the CPU side, who knows. Because i already did this configuration a few weeks ago and no success.

So now i raised the RAM to 1.67v and now is stable too, but the rare random freeze appears only in CSGO happened again(From the TEST 1. maybe it's a network thing, because i have a bad internet connection and it happens only when i play online, offline games it doesn't happen), but i think it's better to return to 1.66v.

For me, games working without issues with 2400Mhz RAM is a victory with this board. But i never get tired to thank everyone in this topic, because i only got this configuration working with the knowledge of all guys posting here.









I'm done, just for now. I will keep testing and testing and later maybe i'll start to play with the GPU clock.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Sorry to put in another post but it become big, so...

Bad and maybe good news.

Like i said before, the motherboard don't overvolt the northbridge. In the bios i have setted +0.018 for NB right? Ok, look to this screenshot.

http://imgur.com/lQDRevj

I was testing the PC with GTA V and got a lot of blue artifacts and searched in HWInfo a option to show the current NB voltage and the result was this.

NB VID: 1.250v and you guys know this is the stock VID for NB right?

Oh right. So just to be certain of this, i set in BIOS the auto, normal and +0.000v and opened the game and... same value.







. It's just confirm, this motherboard don't overvolt NB and CPU through bios.

So, desperated i changed the NB VID in AMD MSR Tweaker. It's risky i know... but if anything go wrong i just know to return to default value.

So i changed to v1.300 and v1.350v and until now, no freezes and no artifacts in GTA V, CS GO and MGS V.

But like before, testing and testing.


----------



## MatrixDecker

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> NB VID: 1.250v and you guys know this is the stock VID for NB right?
> 
> Oh right. So just to be certain of this, i set in BIOS the auto, normal and +0.000v and opened the game and... same value.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's just confirm, this motherboard don't overvolt NB and CPU through bios.
> 
> So, desperated i changed the NB VID in AMD MSR Tweaker. It's risky i know... but if anything go wrong i just know to return to default value.
> 
> So i changed to v1.300 and v1.350v and until now, no freezes and no artifacts in GTA V, CS GO and MGS V.


I think the degradation limit on the NB voltage is 1.325V for Kaveri based APU/CPUs. 1.350V looks to be too much.


----------



## RabbitRu

Have you tryed updating your bios?
Maybe in new revisions you can normally play with voltages


----------



## Katsutoshi

Wow... I didn't know MatrixDecker, i will lower and see the results.

RabbitRu, i'm on the latest BIOS version, F8.

EDIT:

Maybe if even i put higher voltages in NB and not become 100% stable, you guys recommend to me to start from the begining but with NB at 2000 Mhz?

Well, i will stop to spam with a lot of posts. I will test and later i will post my results if i reach a stable config. So, thank you for the patience guys...

EDIT 2: End the day results.

I give up. I tested with every config, raising the voltages until 1.325v with 0.005v steps. I got some good results after 1.300v, but after this some onboard things stop working after some time. Here, the microphone stops working after some minutes.

What i tested:

All stock (Turbo, C6, APM, SVM, IOMMU, ERP Disabled).

CPU: 3.7 Ghz - 1.375v (this is the stock voltage here).
*NB: 1800 Mhz* - 1.250v - 1.350v
Memory: XMP 2400Mhz - 1.65-1.69v.
Result: Stable results after 1.300v NB. But some onboard devices start to fail.

CPU: 3.7 Ghz - 1.375v (this is the stock voltage here).
*NB: 2000 Mhz* - 1.250v - 1.350v
Memory: XMP 2133-2400Mhz - 1.65-1.69v.
Result: Any voltages results in bluescreens.

So i think is nearly the impossible to overvolt anything with this board. Maybe it is a issue of my PSU, maybe the energy the PSU supply is not good enough, but i don't know. I quit


----------



## Solohuman

Hey guys, what effects does raising the bus frequency do with these Kaveri chips? On my system, I can get it stable at a lowly 105Mhz but trying for 110, is more tricky? So what bios controls need to be tweaked for successfully stability, do the voltages have an effect? if so, which ones specifically? any tips or tricks greatly appreciated, as I'm sure other enthusiasts out there are probably curious too..
lol... reminds me of playing around with the old FSB frequency on LGA775 platforms..


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> Hey guys, what effects does raising the bus frequency do with these Kaveri chips? On my system, I can get it stable at a lowly 105Mhz but trying for 110, is more tricky? So what bios controls need to be tweaked for successfully stability, do the voltages have an effect? if so, which ones specifically? any tips or tricks greatly appreciated, as I'm sure other enthusiasts out there are probably curious too..
> lol... reminds me of playing around with the old FSB frequency on LGA775 platforms..


If you overclock using your method you have to use IDE mode instead of AHCI.


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> If you overclock using your method you have to use IDE mode instead of AHCI.


Ok, but not sure if Windows will boot without complaining when I do the switch over in bios..


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> Ok, but not sure if Windows will boot without complaining when I do the switch over in bios..


If you have to switch it won't boot. But there are easy ways to switch. Guys on this forum have posted the AHCI to IDE workaround. Something has to be edited in Windows or something.


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> If you have to switch it won't boot. But there are easy ways to switch. Guys on this forum have posted the AHCI to IDE workaround. Something has to be edited in Windows or something.


No problem, I'll look it up, Have done the reverse before but not the other back...lol.. :









This raises another issue though.... if its this much of a hassle and a downgrade for storage access, then bus frequency overclocking is *boring* on this platform. From the info I"ve seen around the place, no one seems to go over 109MHz.... just saying...


----------



## Himo5

The main reason for raising BClk on APUs is to overclock memory when the highest available divider is 2400MHz.

Raising BClk (100-111MHz) on that divider gives in succession, 2400/ 2424/ 2448/ 2472/ 2496/ 2520/ 2544/ 2568/ 2592/ 2616/ 2640/ 2664MHz. On a good motherboard with some nicely binned RAM 2616MHz is certainly possible in most circumstances and there is a chance of getting some results at 2640MHz.

Why would this be so interesting? Because APU performance gets a higher lift from rasing RAM speed than any other overclock, as the following table (albeit for the A10-7870K) shows.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Guys, i tried again some settings. Just to try my luck...

But i have a question. When i raised the NB voltage to 1.300v i notice a noise from microphone (using OBS). This is because my northbridge is too overvolted or maybe the cause is my PSU who don't "serve" good quality energy? When i saw this, i returned to stock immediately ...


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> The main reason for raising BClk on APUs is to overclock memory when the highest available divider is 2400MHz.
> 
> Raising BClk (100-111MHz) on that divider gives in succession, 2400/ 2424/ 2448/ 2472/ 2496/ 2520/ 2544/ 2568/ 2592/ 2616/ 2640/ 2664MHz. On a good motherboard with some nicely binned RAM 2616MHz is certainly possible in most circumstances and there is a chance of getting some results at 2640MHz.
> 
> Why would this be so interesting? Because APU performance gets a higher lift from rasing RAM speed than any other overclock, as the following table (albeit for the A10-7870K) shows.


That's an interesting chart Himo5, but with that divider, how much Vdimm would be needed to maintain something like say 2496 or thereabouts? can these types of systems handle more than 1.65? and what about the latencies? Looks like we will have to use CL 13, 14, or even 15? seriously into DDR4 territory...

Come on AMD, get your desktop DDR4 systems up, running and for sale!!


----------



## edrak78

One question: how does the performance of a A10 7850 compare to a [email protected] 4.8GHz and HD7870 GHz edition vid card? I was looking at going to an ASUS Crossblade Ranger and the 7850 Kaveri from an ASUS CHVF-Z with a FX 8350 @ 4.8GHz and an ASUS HD 7870 DCII2GD5V2 vid card. I am running Dom Plat 2133MHz RAM @ 9, 11, 11, 31, 45 and planned on running same RAM with new setup.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> That's an interesting chart Himo5, but with that divider, how much Vdimm would be needed to maintain something like say 2496 or thereabouts? can these types of systems handle more than 1.65? and what about the latencies? Looks like we will have to use CL 13, 14, or even 15? seriously into DDR4 territory...
> 
> Come on AMD, get your desktop DDR4 systems up, running and for sale!!


The DOCP profile for G.Skill 2666MHz/2x4Gb Dimms automatically raised NB Frequency to conform with the 1:1.25 ratio rule and DRAM Voltage is automatically set to 1.65V, but no other adjustments are necessary. The timings on which the chart was based support latencies running from CL7 to CL11, as can be seen at this link to how the chart was generated.

I have certainly heard of APUs being run with DRAM Voltage over 1.7V but DDR3 modules spec'd above 2400MHz are already binned to run at standard latencies. Because the Kaveri/Godavari Memory Controller cannot train memory frequencies above 2400MHz raising DRAM Voltage to such high levels is hardly necessary.

What CAN be done now that the price of high spec'd DDR3 has begun to plummet is to overclock it around the 2400MHz mark at ever tighter timings and see if reducing latency - perhaps even to DDR2 levels - may produce the same performance gains as increasing memory speed.


----------



## drmrlordx

Tighter timings will help the CPU, but generally they will do nothing to help the iGPU.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edrak78*
> 
> One question: how does the performance of a A10 7850 compare to a [email protected] 4.8GHz and HD7870 GHz edition vid card? I was looking at going to an ASUS Crossblade Ranger and the 7850 Kaveri from an ASUS CHVF-Z with a FX 8350 @ 4.8GHz and an ASUS HD 7870 DCII2GD5V2 vid card. I am running Dom Plat 2133MHz RAM @ 9, 11, 11, 31, 45 and planned on running same RAM with new setup.


Are you asking how the integrated graphics on the 7850K compare to that setup or just the using the 7850K CPU vs 8350 with the HD7870?

Either way at 4.4Ghz the 7850K(CPU) will match the 4.8Ghz 8350 in up to 3 threaded heavy games, but the extra cores make the 8350 more useful in many other things.
even overclocked to the max the 7850K iGPU can never compete with an HD7870
Only reason to use a 7850K with an HD7870 would be to try DX12's ability to *crossfire* the 2 gpus. or if HSA suddenly became relevant


----------



## edrak78

7850K,

I was asking how they compared since i know the AM3+ only can use PCIE 2.0 and the FM2+ uses PCIE 3.0. I was wondering if using my HD7870 coupled with the 7850K would outperform my current rig.

PS.
I had to down-clock my 8350 to stock to keep windows 10 from crashing when playing crystal saga, but that may be because i changed PSUs for the computer; went from a Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 1000W to a Corsair AXi 1200W and not sure if it is the PSU or an update from windows 10 that is causing the crashing.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edrak78*
> 
> One question: how does the performance of a A10 7850 compare to a [email protected] 4.8GHz and HD7870 GHz edition vid card? I was looking at going to an ASUS Crossblade Ranger and the 7850 Kaveri from an ASUS CHVF-Z with a FX 8350 @ 4.8GHz and an ASUS HD 7870 DCII2GD5V2 vid card. I am running Dom Plat 2133MHz RAM @ 9, 11, 11, 31, 45 and planned on running same RAM with new setup.


I think this single core benchmark comparison between [email protected] GHz and [email protected] GHz - both with 270x - will help mitigate the hesitancy. [FX-4350], [X4 860K(Kaveri)].


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## warpuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Are you asking how the integrated graphics on the 7850K compare to that setup or just the using the 7850K CPU vs 8350 with the HD7870?
> 
> Either way at 4.4Ghz the 7850K(CPU) will match the 4.8Ghz 8350 in up to 3 threaded heavy games, but the extra cores make the 8350 more useful in many other things.
> even overclocked to the max the 7850K iGPU can never compete with an HD7870
> Only reason to use a 7850K with an HD7870 would be to try DX12's ability to *crossfire* the 2 gpus. or if HSA suddenly became relevant


This says Windows 10 does some thing different with APUs, but what ? I did notice some improvement in overall performance boost with my A10-5750M notebook with win 10. But I don't game with it. I have a FX-9590 box Dual R9-285s for that. If AMD ? has come up with a trick in win 10 with a APU chipset that allows the CPU to be aided by the APU video processor and just let a 7870 do it that would be good thing. The 285 is close to the 7950 performance. I think crossfire (dual Graphics) with a APU would slow down a 7870. The reason I don't think it was just an AMD idea is intel has APU CPUs too, and is going to get better on the APU side in the future.

https://community.amd.com/docs/DOC-1312

I did find this

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/dual-graphics


----------



## drmrlordx

Win10 isn't using the iGPU to boost CPU performance. The main advantage to Win10 is that it appears to have some reduced overhead and other optimizations that make FM2+ APUs "click".

I got significant improvements in performance on my 7700k moving from Win7 to Win10 in AMD Linpack, for example. iGPU usage remains at 0% during the benchmark.


----------



## Solohuman

Not sure what is going on here, but if I leave NB frequency on 'auto' and no matter what divider I use for my ram, it always defaults to 1400MHz according to CPU-Z v1.73. This is with Asus A88X-Plus and 2603 bios (latest).
Browsing through the technical facts for the 7850K does not indicate what the default NB frequency is? Its weird or incompetent that AMD does not communicate this feature...









I am aware of the 1.25:1.00 ratio but its unsatisfactory to say the least that the mobo doesn't automatically adjust the NB frequency when using either 1333 or 2133 ram. Using MaxxMEMM2 shows very little if any performance gains with either slow or fast ram..


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> Not sure what is going on here, but if I leave NB frequency on 'auto' and no matter what divider I use for my ram, it always defaults to 1400MHz according to CPU-Z v1.73. This is with Asus A88X-Plus and 2603 bios (latest).
> Browsing through the technical facts for the 7850K does not indicate what the default NB frequency is? Its weird or incompetent that AMD does not communicate this feature...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware of the 1.25:1.00 ratio but its unsatisfactory to say the least that the mobo doesn't automatically adjust the NB frequency when using either 1333 or 2133 ram. Using MaxxMEMM2 shows very little if any performance gains with either slow or fast ram..


Yeah, it lost some of its gleam. It used to be recommended for 50% faster operation than memory frequency in phenoms. In the bulldozer line up, only as fast as the dimm frequency is required.


----------



## drmrlordx

Speak for yourself. I'll take the highest NB overclock I can get, even if that's only +300 mhz with any degree of stability. It makes quite a difference on Kaveri.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Speak for yourself. I'll take the highest NB overclock I can get, even if that's only +300 mhz with any degree of stability. It makes quite a difference on Kaveri.


QFT


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Speak for yourself. I'll take the highest NB overclock I can get, even if that's only +300 mhz with any degree of stability. It makes quite a difference on Kaveri.


Certainly does.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> Not sure what is going on here, but if I leave NB frequency on 'auto' and no matter what divider I use for my ram, it always defaults to 1400MHz according to CPU-Z v1.73. This is with Asus A88X-Plus and 2603 bios (latest).
> Browsing through the technical facts for the 7850K does not indicate what the default NB frequency is? Its weird or incompetent that AMD does not communicate this feature...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware of the 1.25:1.00 ratio but its unsatisfactory to say the least that the mobo doesn't automatically adjust the NB frequency when using either 1333 or 2133 ram. Using MaxxMEMM2 shows very little if any performance gains with either slow or fast ram..


The NCLK on Kaveri / Godavari is supposed to be dynamic. It varies between 1400-1600-1800MHz depending on the memory traffic and GPU activity. 1800MHz is the highest default frequency. I said it is supposed to be variable, however many ODMs actually lock it to the highest frequency by disabling the lower NBPStates.

You could try and downgrade the bios to older version if you have issues with it.
Your current bios is based on Bristol Ridge AGESA, which means it´s main target is Excavator and not Steamroller.
It should be backwards compatible, but Steamroller is no longer a priority in that build.


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> The NCLK on Kaveri / Godavari is supposed to be dynamic. It varies between 1400-1600-1800MHz depending on the memory traffic and GPU activity. 1800MHz is the highest default frequency. I said it is supposed to be variable, however many ODMs actually lock it to the highest frequency by disabling the lower NBPStates.


I've noticed during cpu & ram stress testing, the NB frequency never changes from 1400 and flickers to 200 at times, according to CPU-Z. I"ll run some Futuremark benchies and make a point of observing the NB value again. If its stuck at 1400, then Asus have mucked this up... unless the user manually sets it up in bios.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> You could try and downgrade the bios to older version if you have issues with it.
> Your current bios is based on Bristol Ridge AGESA, which means it´s main target is Excavator and not Steamroller.
> It should be backwards compatible, but Steamroller is no longer a priority in that build.


Ok, I get that, but why would Asus do this to the latest bios for this particular mobo? I mean can I, or anyone else who owns one of these, get an Excavator chip for this board?

Afaik, Steamroller is it.


----------



## The Stilt

The 200MHz NCLK is a known bug of CPU-Z.
Anything over 1500MHz is displayed as 200MHz, unless you set the NCLK frequency manually from bios.
The AGESA for Bristol Ridge support Steamroller chips too (backwards compatible), however the AGESA version is obviously beta so there are probably some glitches in it. Thats why you might want to revert to older bios, built with a mature version of Steamroller targeted AGESA.


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> The 200MHz NCLK is a known bug of CPU-Z.
> Anything over 1500MHz is displayed as 200MHz, unless you set the NCLK frequency manually from bios.
> The AGESA for Bristol Ridge support Steamroller chips too (backwards compatible), however the AGESA version is obviously beta so there are probably some glitches in it. Thats why you might want to revert to older bios, built with a mature version of Steamroller targeted AGESA.


Ok, thanks for the headsup. I thought cpu-z had a bug with reporting NB...


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Are you asking how the integrated graphics on the 7850K compare to that setup or just the using the 7850K CPU vs 8350 with the HD7870?
> 
> Either way at 4.4Ghz the 7850K(CPU) will match the 4.8Ghz 8350 in up to 3 threaded heavy games, but the extra cores make the 8350 more useful in many other things.
> even overclocked to the max the 7850K iGPU can never compete with an HD7870
> Only reason to use a 7850K with an HD7870 would be to try DX12's ability to *crossfire* the 2 gpus. or if HSA suddenly became relevant


Bit late to this I know...but...

I was thinking of a similar situation just recently although with FX-6300 instead, however from what I understand (old technology?) using cpu with more cache actually helps in games than using cpu with less cache? Not sure if this is still relevant for todays games or most popular titles released this decade or not? we all know IPC is better in steamroller than Piledriver, but how much of an over-riding factor is cache with these types of apps??

On another note, according to AMD Source R7 250 is the only gpu than can be paired up for dual graphics with A10-7850K, no crossfire possible with HD7870 and iGPU. But personally, I wish it could be done, would definitely do it with my HD7870!


----------



## Solohuman

Just completed this today with my new PSU and cpu cooler..4.5GHz with deliberately low speed ram to keep Vdimm low. I"m happy with 1.5 hrs of p95 blend test, system mounted in midi-ATX case too..


----------



## Orgetorix

I'm running a A10-7850K on an ASUS A88XM-Plus MB, and just Flashed the BIOS to the latest rev. 2502. I had been running rev. 1801 for quite a while @ 4.2Ghz CPU Clock, 2400Mhz Ram @ 11,13,13,35 timings, and iGPU @ 900Mhz.

After flashing, I could not get the memory to hold a 2400Mhz OC for anything. On rev. 1801, I just loaded the XMP profile, and it held the OC stable. After some dinking around last night I ended up bumping the Bus speed up to 113Mhz with a x40 multiplier giving an effective OC of 4.5Ghz CPU, 2410Mhz Ram @ 11,13,13,35 timings, NB maxes @ 2034Mhz, and iGPU @ 900Mhz. Odd that CPU-Z is reporting that the iGPU memory is only clocking @ 333Mhz, must be a glitch with 1.74.0.

This set-up seems to be stable, I've run a short Prime95 test, around 15 minutes, and it was stable. I tried bumping the iGPU up to 1020mhz, and had an instant BSOD, then dropped it down to 960Mhz, and still instant BSOD after windows loaded.


----------



## Katsutoshi

After days not doing nothing with my setup, i tried few days ago some tests. And managed to do this.



What you guys think? Can i go further? the iGP clock is at safe maximum? I tried to tight more the timing of the memory, but after this, i got BSOD before entering OS.


----------



## drmrlordx

DDR3-2133 CL9 is pretty good. Your iGPU will like DDR3-2400 CL10 better, but if you can't get that stable then no worries.

Also try iGPU clockspeed of 1028 MHz if your board will support it (some won't). But you probably won't get much from the extra clockspeed, and with your memory at DDR3-2133, you might get nothing at all.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Thanks for the info.

Yes, i have a lot of problems running DDR3-2400 in this board. Even everything on stock, running the memories at 2400 gives me a very unstable config using iGPU.

I'll try to run at 1028Mhz and check the results...


----------



## zeusz4u

After my first Kaveri was dead, and RMAd it, got the replacement. Now I'm kinda having issues overclocking (again):

My board Asrock A88X Extreme4+ has a profile for 4 Ghz overclock, with CPU VCORE at 1.35V, all looking cool at this point, the CPU is stable without further overclocks, tried lowering the voltage, but I think I can still handle the heat at 1.35V without problems. Probably I could lower it more, but want no crashes at all.

Next thing I wanted to do is testing with 3DMark11, on Extreme 1080P settings. Got a score of about 700, with stock iGPU speeds and stock NB voltage (2.75 V i think).

Now the tricky part, tried overclocking the NB voltage to 2000 MHz for more memory bandwidth (already running 2x4GB G.Skill CL10 DDR3-2400), along with the iGPU to 1028 MHz. I would be happy with this setup, however, I've found out that once starting and launching the benchmark the AMD drivers stops working and recovers with an error, ending the test instaantly. Tried upping the NB Core voltage to like 1.325V, still the same issue. I've seen people were able to stabilize the iGPU at even lower voltages, around 1.3V. I still can't do it.

Any ideas? Should I raise the voltage any higher, or can it be a different issue? I've run no CPU stress test prior to 3DMark11, so I'm around 35 C while idle after starting up the PC, got a lot of OC headroom according to AMD Overdrive.

Should I enable LLC? I don't quite understand how to use it, and besides I've got only the following settings: 1/2 VCORE, 1/2 NB VCORE, 1/2 VCORE + 1/2 NB. Not sure which one I should enable here? Can anyone having the same motherboard help me with this? Thanks.


----------



## GreatChicken

I'm currently on 4.1mhz +0.007v, iGPU 1028mhz NB 2000mhz +0.075v, 8GB 2133 CL9 RAM @1.6v (2GB forced vRAM). Most of these settings are aped from review sites and not actually stress tested (I still want to use my stuff y'know...) but has thus far survived 10 hours of continuous use.

I do not have 2400 RAM to see whether my board has issues with it, but I do know some boards don't like 2400. It's a long shot and I don't have experience clocking RAM, but perhaps you can try 2133?

I don't use AMD Overdrive, never had any luck with it. EasyTune6 (GB's clock tool) is off my system too after observing that Win10 doesn't like it very much.

CnQ is on in bios for me, you can try turning it off.


----------



## zeusz4u

What are the actual absolute voltages that you are using?


----------



## GreatChicken

According to HWINFO and bios: 1.337v CPU and 1.250v NB, max.

Warning: My Gigabyte board is strange: 2 updates in and it still:
a. won't let me undervolt
b. has input gauges that shows you a default voltage, and a text field you can only change with page up and page down, with values of "Auto" or +0.0 - +x.x, and pressing pageup changes the value 0.07v at a time.

Apparently the board insists the default is 1.33v CPU and 1.175v NB.


----------



## zeusz4u

Had some time to play with the chip.

I managed to get the iGPU stable at 900 Mhz @1.3V NB. Can't go any higher, even if I raise the voltage to 1.4V, it will eventually crash and will have to do a BIOS battery reset to get it to post.

Either way, I also managed to push the NB freq a bit higher, from 1800 MHz to 2000 MHz. There's no difference as far as I can tell in the 3DMArk benchmark, maybe 1-2 points, not noticeable at all.
However the jump from 720 MHz to 900 MHz has bumped my score by over 100 points. I think it's still a pretty decent performance increase for free.

I would like to know why running at 1028 MHz always crashes 3DMark11 and the ATI driver. Even 960 MHz does. As far as I've seen can't go any higher right now. Maybe it's my motherboard. It's a mid-range board, so I don't expect an $80 AsRock board to perform like a $120 Asus one.

So far I'm all ok with the temperatures. After finishing the benchmark at 1080p I still had 54 C thermal margin. That seems a lot to me. Should I try raising the NB voltage even more? I was quite surprisde 1.4V isn't enough for 1028MHz.


----------



## drmrlordx

1.4V is already very high for the NB. I run mine at 1.3375v which is already pushing it. As you say, it may have a lot to do with your board and its ability to supply smooth voltage.


----------



## zeusz4u

I've just noticed that these NB voltages above 1.35 are marked with orange, the ones exceeding 1.4 are red in Overdrive. I think this is still a balanced overclock for both the CPU/iGPU. No point in pushing it any further.

Altough, ASrock A-tuner shows voltages around 1.26V CPU VCORE while running Intel Burn Test at Very HIgh, this would mean that I could probably lower it a bit from 1.35V which is BIOS default for this, or I could probably raise the frequencies a bit, by 100-200 MHz probably, still got over 35 C thermal margin while running IBT. That's still a lot to overclock. I will however probably see thermal throttling if both CPU and iGPU are under load. WIll try running IBT and FurMark in parallel








The whole idea was to get the iGPU running as fast as possible for a 24/7 workload and casual gaming. I'm still happy I could push it this far.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Here, if i put the NB voltage to 1.3, the microphone starts to make noise. Some gigabyte boards are pretty crappy and the NB have to be overvolted with AMD MSR Tweaker. Not the safest method, but works with care. And no RAM 2400Mhz with this board (F2A88XM-D3H). Nothing can stable RAM at this clock in this board.

My settings stable until now: CPU 4.0 Ghz (1.25v) GPU: 1028 Mhz (1.275v) RAM: 2133 CL9 (1.6).


----------



## zeusz4u

Can anyone explain to me how to use the APU LLC (Load-Line Calibration). It's currently set to Auto on my board.
There's no help in the BIOS, neither it is in the user manual. It only says that this option will enable LLC.

My available options on the Asrock fm2a88x Extreme4+ are
- Auto
- 1/2 VCORE
- 1/2 NB
- 1/2 VCORE + 1/2 NB


----------



## GreatChicken

Attempted layman's explanation:

LLC is not a voltage increase mechanism, but something to combat vdroop - the phenomena of temporary voltage fluctuation when your proc changes states, so the listed voltage isn't the same as the one you set it.

http://zannyland.blogspot.sg/2012/11/a-guide-to-asrock-ami-uefi-fm2.html
Quote:


> APU Load-line calibration: This is used in modern cpus to offset vdroop. Only use load line calibration if your voltage isn't dangerously high - traditionally, your given voltage is a fixed limit that the processor won't pass, but may dip below (droop) especially under constant heavy load. LLC will up voltage to offset droop, which means your rated voltage isn't your limit anymore, but you have less chance of voltage dropoff under load. So use LLC at low overclocks but avoid it with higher ones where the voltage spike it causes puts the cpu over safe limits.


Say you have a vcore voltage of 1.3v default, and an LLC of 1/2 vcore. On a state change, an extra 1.3v/2 (or 0.65v) is assigned to vcore. On the off chance you don't get a vdroop during that operation, your core will for a second or so operate at target 1.9v, or maximum allowed voltage for the slot, whichever is lower. It's best to leave this in Auto, I balk at anything above 1.5v these days.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> Attempted layman's explanation:
> 
> LLC is not a voltage increase mechanism, but something to combat vdroop - the phenomena of temporary voltage fluctuation when your proc changes states, so the listed voltage isn't the same as the one you set it.
> 
> http://zannyland.blogspot.sg/2012/11/a-guide-to-asrock-ami-uefi-fm2.html
> Say you have a vcore voltage of 1.3v default, and an LLC of 1/2 vcore. On a state change, an extra 1.3v/2 (or 0.65v) is assigned to vcore. On the off chance you don't get a vdroop during that operation, your core will for a second or so operate at target 1.9v, or maximum allowed voltage for the slot, whichever is lower. It's best to leave this in Auto, I balk at anything above 1.5v these days.


No!

The load-line adjustment changes the compensation which is applied to counter the voltage droop.

e.g. When your CPU draws 50A of current at 1.325V with default load-line setting the voltage droop is 0.065V (50 * 1.3mOhm).
The default load-line resistance (Rll) for AM3+ and FM2/+ parts is 1.3mOhms. On FM2/+ platforms the specification demans that load-line adjustment is supported: 100%, 80%, 60% and 0% of the original. If the load-line setting is changed from the default 100% to 80%, the Rll will become (virtually) 1.04mOhm (1.3 * 0.8). If the conditions remain identical (50A @ 1.325V) then the voltage droop will reduce from 0.065V to 0.052V.

In reality the Rll doesn´t change, however the amount of compensation applied by the controller does.
When the load-line is set to default settings the VRM controller does not take any measures to compensate the droop.
When set to 80%, the VRM controller will boost the voltage by up to 0.013V (50A @ 1.325V).


----------



## GreatChicken

Aha thx and sorry. Some things on mobo I just never touch. -.-


----------



## zeusz4u

Thanks, that what I've found out on the internet as well.

I think I'll leave it on auto. Tried setting it once to 1/2 VCORE + 1/2 NB and my PC wouldn't post anymore, had to take out the battery to reset the settings. I was afraid that I burnt my APU since I couldn't see any output on my monitor







Besides I have no options for it in BIOS to set like you said 80%... I gave up playing with this setting since I don't have money for another MB + APU if I kill these.

I've seen in the thread that it's possible to disable Throttling only by changing CPU voltages wis AMD MSR Tweaker? I've noticed that sometimes when I left my PC on, during idle I sometimes found it frozen, and had to reset the PC. Is this being caused by some voltage drops in the idle state? IBT runs fine on Very High - 10 passes.

C6 state is disabled from BIOS, so it is Throttling, AMD Cool'n'Quit is left turned on.

I wish there was more documentation on how to OC these APUs.


----------



## Orgetorix

Looks like BIOS Rev. 2502 for the ASUS A88XM-Plus had some issues which were addressed with Rev. 2701,
Quote:


> A88XM-PLUS BIOS 2701
> Fix D.O.C.P. function fail when selected memory frequency is 2400 MHz


Which was exactly the problem I was having. I just flashed to this latest Rev. Now I'm holding stable @ 4.5ghz CPU clock, x45 Multiplier, 100mhz Bus, 2400mhz DRAM @ stock X.M.P profile, NB @ 2000mhz, and I was able to bump the iGPU clock up to 960mhz. CPUz is still reporting iGPU memory @ 333mhz, must be a glitch.

Once I upgrade my cooler from the Corsair H50 I've got now, and get a new case, I'll see how far I can push this APU. I'm looking at getting either a be quite! Dark Rock 3, or a LEPA AquaChanger 240mm radiator, for cooling, and either a Fractal Design R5, Fractal Design Define S, or a be quite! Silent Base 800 case.

Not quite sure yet what I'll get, all I know is it's time to upgrade. I've gone through 3 builds in this 12 year old X-Blade case, and it's really showing it's age. I'm aiming to get as quite as possible, with maximum cooling.

Right now I've got two 120mm Scythe Slipstreams in push/pull config on my H50, and when they both spool up to 2000 RPMs, the back of my case sounds like a turbine. Those fans do push some air though...


----------



## zeusz4u

OK, this morning I found my PC frozen. It was left pretty much idle during the night (seeding torrents). Why did this happen? I have seen this several times so far, mostly during idle states or during screen saver. What can the problem be? It's only at 4 GHz.

ALso, whenever I launch Furmark or any other GPU benchmark, my CPU multiplier drops to 30x. Is there a way to stop this safely? I already disable Throttling from the BIOS. I've read here that AMD tweaker can help here, does anyone know how to do it safely? I'm kinda afraid to use that tool when I have no idea what I'm doing.


----------



## drmrlordx

Furmark, and any other iGPU-intensive benchmark, will cause your CPU to throttle to the p5 state. If you try running an iGPU-intensive program along with a CPU-intensive program at the same time (read: Prime95 + Furmark), you may get throttling to the p4 state.

The simplest way to defeat that is to run amdmsrtweaker and change the p-states, though I have observed some odd behavior from doing that (hitching during games). The more-complex, and more thorough solution to the problem is to stop using Windows and switch to Linux, where no such throttling exists, but . . . yeah. That's not so simple.


----------



## The Stilt

You don´t need Furmark to make the CPU to drop P2/P4 (Kaveri / Godavari). GEApm will put the CPU to P2/P4 state as soon as the GPU utilization hits 95%. It has nothing to do with power consumption or thermals.

Even the PCI-E bandwidth test in GPU-Z can do that.


----------



## Solohuman

I've given up OCing these chips, honestly, they can get boring pretty quickly if playing with the multiplier alone.. and highly limited BCLK/FSB adjustments because of AHCI Sata for OS.. well thats for the CPU side of it anyway.. suppose the iGPU has a little more fiddling in it albeit highly dependant on high bandwidth ram though..

Going back to my FX chip for some more fun.. lol..


----------



## zeusz4u

I see, I can still live with 3 GHz while the GPU is used intensively, don't want to bother with this too much. 3GHz is still plenty, it kinda makes sense becuase it could probably produce a lot of heat while both CPU and GPU are under 100% load. So basically disabling Throttling in BIOS doesn't do anything with the chip, it's stil left turned on.

What can be causing my PC to freeze during idle? It's not easy to reproduce as it's totally random, sometimes it runs ok for 1 week or so but sometimes when I go take a shower and return, have to do a reset cause can't get it working. OC'd it to 4GHz at 1.35V, NB voltage cureently 1.325V @ 900 MHz iGPU, also NB is overclocked to 2000 MHz, running 2400 MHz RAM in dual channel.

Is it caused by overclock? If it was, then my PC should become unresponsive during Intel Burn test, but this doesn't happen, it's running perfectly stable under high load. Also 3DMark11 runs pretty smooths, doesn't crash anymore.

However Crysis 2 crashes every time I start it and load my save game... I think it has to do with Windows 8.1, not the overclock itself. If benchmarking software 3DMark 11 doesn't crash the display driver, why would Crysis 2 do that which is even older game? I think it's not fully copatible with Win 8.1.


----------



## Katsutoshi

When it was happening here, it was because the undervolt i did. If i put 4.0 GHz with less than 1.25v, PC randomly freezes, so the lower stable voltage value i can use is 1.25v for CPU.

But 3D aplications crash can be NB or MC not handling correctly. Try to put the RAMs to 2133Mhz. If the system become stable, you have to overvolt the NB or undervolt to stabilize at 2400Mhz with a overclocked IGP...

And NB at 1.325v seems too high. You already tried to undervolt? Here, if i use the NB voltages at 1.3V, the microphone starts to capture a lot of noise...


----------



## drmrlordx

I wanted to add that if you alter your p-states via amdmsrtweaker to get around iGPU throttling, you may only get the hitching/odd framerate problems in games if you leave certain CPU settings active.

When I disabled all the power management (CnQ, APM, etc) the problem went away, and my 3DMark scores went up with the throttling disabled. I can now score over 1800 on a 7700k.


----------



## zeusz4u

I was trying to test my system with the overclocked iGPU, but didn't quite mange to get it running at over 900 MHz iGPU freq.

What I was trying to achieve was an overclock mostly on the GPU side to get some decent framerates in games.
My system became stable during benchmarks (3DMark 11) only when increased the voltage quite a bit on the NB. The decided to go with 0.25V increase to see if it fixes the problem. Even when I reached like 1.4V or even 1.425 (this one looks already too dangerous to me), my AMD Driver starting to crash when I entered a GPU intensive benchmark or game, so the highest frequency I could get was 900 MHz. I think it's my MB, the VRM-s are crappy I think FM2A88X-Extreme4+, mostly bought it for the plenty of USB3 ports, HDMI, and 4 dual-channel memory slots, as much as for the VRM heatsink, which gave me the impression of being a good board, but now I regret not buying the Extreme6+ for like $40 more.

I'll try testing the system with whatever stuff I've got starting with Memtest, then reset all values to default, and only test the CPU overclock to 4 GHz with 1.35V voltage, I could probably get even lower. Voltage readings rarely exceed 1.3V in AsRoack A-Tuner or Overdrive while running IBT.

Can I run the iGPU at 1028 MHz with 2400MHz DDR if the NB is left on default frequency of 1800 MHz? Isn't this an issue? My board has a default voltage of 1.275V for the NB at default settings. Alos, how does NB frequency affect performance? Is the 200-300 MHz difference even noticeable? As far as I could tell, in my benchmarks it was only a few points difference. Increasing from 1600 Mhz DDR3 to 2400 MHz ddr3 bumped my iGPU performance a lot.. more than the overclock alone.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I wanted to add that if you alter your p-states via amdmsrtweaker to get around iGPU throttling, you may only get the hitching/odd framerate problems in games if you leave certain CPU settings active.
> 
> When I disabled all the power management (CnQ, APM, etc) the problem went away, and my 3DMark scores went up with the throttling disabled. I can now score over 1800 on a 7700k.


Is it possible to reset to default CPU settings later on? I'm not familiar with amdmsrtweaker, what I saw that it's a command line utilty, so you probably gotta be careful what you're doing with it. Any help is welcome here and much appreciated. Will this tool void my warranty?


----------



## Orgetorix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> Can I run the iGPU at 1028 MHz with 2400MHz DDR if the NB is left on default frequency of 1800 MHz? Isn't this an issue?


Probably not, but weirder things have happened. I would think that a NB freq of 1800 would be to slow to keep iGPU and DDR stable at those freqs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> My board has a default voltage of 1.275V for the NB at default settings. Alos, how does NB frequency affect performance? Is the 200-300 MHz difference even noticeable? As far as I could tell, in my benchmarks it was only a few points difference. Increasing from 1600 Mhz DDR3 to 2400 MHz ddr3 bumped my iGPU performance a lot.. more than the overclock alone.


And that's as it should be. The main bottle neck with the iGPU is always going to be memory bandwidth. It's imperative to hold the fastest OC you can on your memory. NB freq isn't about performance on it's own, it's about stability. You dial in the NB freq to keep the other components stable at the respective clock speeds you set them to run at.

Just be careful with your VRM temps. If your board doesn't have coolers on them, then you really need to rig some up.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> What can be causing my PC to freeze during idle? It's not easy to reproduce as it's totally random, sometimes it runs ok for 1 week or so but sometimes when I go take a shower and return, have to do a reset cause can't get it working. OC'd it to 4GHz at 1.35V, NB voltage cureently 1.325V @ 900 MHz iGPU, also NB is overclocked to 2000 MHz, running 2400 MHz RAM in dual channel.


I had a similar situation with my build. It was working for over 2 months, and then it started freezing. I got frustrated so I set the memory (Kingston Hyper SavageX 2400MHz 2x8Gb) from 2400MHz (11-13-14-35 @ 1.65V) to 2133 because I have a discrete GPU. My Crossblade Ranger automagically set the memory to 2133MHz, 9-11-11-28 @1.65V and I left it like that for the last month.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> Is it possible to reset to default CPU settings later on? I'm not familiar with amdmsrtweaker, what I saw that it's a command line utilty, so you probably gotta be careful what you're doing with it. Any help is welcome here and much appreciated. Will this tool void my warranty?


The effects of amdmsrtweaker are undone every time you reboot. So if you don't want to restore the default p-state behavior manually, just reboot Windows and there you go.


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> The effects of amdmsrtweaker are undone every time you reboot. So if you don't want to restore the default p-state behavior manually, just reboot Windows and there you go.


Is it somehow scheduled to run at startup? Or will I have to manually tun every time I want to disable throttling? As far as I understood this throttling issue only happens on windows machines, linux OS doen't have these problems.

Do you have an example command for disabling throttling? Preferabbly the command that you're using to do this. I'm not that familiar with P states. I have already disabled C6 state and CnQ from the BIOS.


----------



## zeusz4u

It's frustrating to me as well. I was about to give up overclocking the chip. I still think my board is crappy







. I wish I had bought the AsRock FM2A88X Extreme6+ instead. I've read somewhere that loosening the last timing might help in getting RAM stable at 2400 MHz. My RAM is a pretty decent one, rated CAS 10 at 2400 MHz.

As of now, I'm running the APU at default settings, with memory at 2400 MHz. So far I have seen no issues with this setup.


----------



## Moumoule

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> Is it somehow scheduled to run at startup? Or will I have to manually tun every time I want to disable throttling? As far as I understood this throttling issue only happens on windows machines, linux OS doen't have these problems.
> 
> Do you have an example command for disabling throttling? Preferabbly the command that you're using to do this. I'm not that familiar with P states. I have already disabled C6 state and CnQ from the BIOS.


You can create a batch file to launch amdmsrtweaker on boot (with desired p-states)

Here's an example of a batch file i made for my 7650k (you need to adapt for your APU):

C:\AmdMsrTweaker_1.1\x64\AmdMsrTweaker.exe [email protected] [email protected]

This will set p-state P4 to 31 (31xbclk) @ 1.26875 Volt and p-state P5 to 38 (38xbclk) @ 1.26875 Volt

I personally start the batch file manually. If you want, you can start this batch file on startup using the Task scheduler. There are a lot of tutorials on the internet about this. For example: (http://www.overclock.net/t/1499562/undervolting-editing-p-states-for-piledriver-using-amd-mrstweaker-mini-guide)


----------



## imreloadin

Out of curiosity has anyone updated to Crimson yet?
If so how much improvement did you get?

Sent from my OnePlus One


----------



## drmrlordx

I updated to Crimson, and I haven't noticed any improvements yet, though if I see anything obvious, I'll report it here

(on an A10-7700k)


----------



## Himo5

Crimson cost me 100 points in Firestrike - and so did Catalyst 15.11.1.


----------



## drmrlordx

edit: I ran the test @ 4.5 GHz on the new driver. Gonna have to go into benchmark mode, woops!

Okay, this time I ran it @ 4.7 GHz with all the power management defeated so that amdmsrtweaker wouldn't punish me for locking the p5 state to 4.7 GHz.

In Ice Storm, my score dropped. New Ice Storm:

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/9449650

Old Ice Storm:

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/9296488

I didn't get through all the other benches since my 7700k is starting to get cranky @ 4.7 GHz. Might be time to replace it with a 7870k or 7890k . . . if they would start selling the darn thing.


----------



## zeusz4u

I heard people were reporting performance and stability issues. It's an early beta driver, so I think I'd better wait till it's released for real. Maybe 2 more updates, cause I'm currently fine right now.

And BTW, just to let you know, looks like LLC resolved my iGPU stability problems, now it's running stable, altough I've only overclocked the NB (2000 MHz) and iGPU (960MHZ) now, unable to reach a stable overclock for 1028 MHz without going over 1.35V, which is already rated with orange color in Overdrive. IMO not worth going any further.

I've left the CPU multiplier at 40x, decreased CPU CORE Voltage to 1.3385V, left the C6 State and CnQ on, and it's running withut issues now. This way AsRock A-Tuner shows that the CPU Core voltage drops to 0.5-0.6 V during idle. This would reduce my power consumption a lot (I think the multiplier is also reduced during idle).

I've even played Crysis 3, but it's a bit laggy when it's too much action









PS: Damn, this stability testing requires lots of patience and time, as sometimes the drivers are crashing after half an hour or so, it requires a lot of time to achieve a 24h stable overclock. I haven't noticed any crashes so far since running this setup.


----------



## zeusz4u

OK, a reallt strange thing is happening now. I've got a really stable overclock, even managed to rise NB to 2100 MHz.

Here comes the issue: I'm getting a sound lag in games sometimes. I guess it's the overclock, has anyone noticed this? If so, what is the solution?


----------



## drmrlordx

You may have to back off on your NB speed. Try running it at 1900 mhz and see if the sound problems persist. If they do, then you've got an answer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> PS: Damn, this stability testing requires lots of patience and time, as sometimes the drivers are crashing after half an hour or so, it requires a lot of time to achieve a 24h stable overclock. I haven't noticed any crashes so far since running this setup.


What kind of driver crashes are you getting?


----------



## Katsutoshi

I'm thinking about to "upgrade" my motherboard. You guys have any sugestion? i want one model who permit overvolt/undervolt through BIOS and overclock the iGP/Memory.

Thanks.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katsutoshi*
> 
> I'm thinking about to "upgrade" my motherboard. You guys have any sugestion? i want one model who permit overvolt/undervolt through BIOS and overclock the iGP/Memory.


dunno if any of them can overclock the IGP in UEFI, but the consensus of best board is Asus' A88X-Pro https://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-a88xpro

http://www.overclock.net/t/1568263/best-fm2-motherboards-for-overclocking-an-amd-a10-apu


----------



## jsc1973

You can't go wrong any of the ASUS A88X-PRO, ASUS Crossblade Ranger, or Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4.


----------



## drmrlordx

The A88x-Pro most certainly can OC the iGPU in the UEFI. Mine runs at 1028 mhz most of the time (up from 720 mhz default).


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You can't go wrong any of the ASUS A88X-PRO, ASUS Crossblade Ranger, or Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4.


I have all three and they are all good. Too bad the Gigabyte bios is a train wreck. The Crossblade is actually my least favorite.


----------



## rebaygsda

mine is fine so far had little error disabling onboard gpu to save ram. also i got a vapochill xe2 4 e sigs and hole in asetek insulation silicone gel and foam max.
i am planning to upgrade my ram should i choose 2x 4gb G.Skill TridentX DDR3-2800 i set xmp to 2800mhz and adjust manual speed to 2600 mhz oc and bump it up at subzero ? any hints how to max mine 7850k







i also got a add2psu thing and 2x mstech950psu i tested with one and atx adapter from vapochill and it was not good i want to connect 4pin extension cable to other psu for more power its unreliable


----------



## GreatChicken

I've found DDR3 kits above 2400 way too expensive even considering Black Friday and Cyber Monday. They aren't common since both Blue and Red have issues getting DDR3 to run past 2400 with any reasonable improvement, so there isn't a demand good enough for economies of scale to kick in.


There was this article by Corsair last year; although their 2640 numbers look pretty good, I don't think any of us amatuers have ever got to that point.. After that, interest in the platform was pretty much gone. So nobody ever bothered to test things like "is there any point in using fast RAM with a dGPU", and because it was never tested, the answer is therefore "no". :3

2133 CAS 9 is about the best you can get edit: for a reasonable price (the lowest response DDR3 2400 part is CAS 10, which the 2133 CAS 9 basically matches by rule of thumb :3). It's not too bad tho, at even 1866 CAS 9 this iGPU basically makes all DDR3 cards irrelevant by running at a default speed faster than GDDR3.


----------



## rebaygsda

i already have a 2400mhz kit this was cheap its spd sayd 2012 buts its 4 x2gb so i can live same 8 gb 2x only at 2600mhz as i understand f1atility fm288x killer supports 2600mhz ram oc at less dimms then i get only 200 mhz clock to use if i cant choose 2800mhz from speed menuu fsb multiplier clock at uunder 0 celsius with a vapo own customsocket







also this cheap the one other is at frozencpu 1400$ 1200€ lian li or 999$ lucky me found working vapo from england. in my expierienc the ram is most important for fps buying a locked multiplier makes no sense. when motherboard refuse set new ram setting and memory is combatible because of having older chipset not providing speed not good to have some mhz extra by oc when you can set it to a speed worst part is that some ram chips dont work on some motherboards


----------



## Katsutoshi

Oh, thank you guys. In my country, a store have a A88X-PRO avaliable with a relative good price and will leave my actual mobo with the task of "reserve motherboard".


----------



## drmrlordx

Good choice. Please be aware that UEFI version can affect your CPUs behavior - more recent versions of the UEFI were tuned with Kaveri refresh in mind. Older UEFI revisions may work better with original Kaveri CPUs (such as a 7850k). I use UEFI rev 1401 on my A88x-Pro for my 7700k and it works very well.

For a newer chip, such as the 7870k, it is best to use the latest UEFI revision.


----------



## ChrisB17

Anyone know how to get the iGpu enabled with the dedicated GPU? It says disabled? But its enabled in bios etc.. Any help?


----------



## GreatChicken

In my BIOS I had an option called Force which keeps the iGPU on even if a dGPU is mounted. Its also the only way to get 2gb of vRam with the iGPU, as Gigabytes auto modes maxed out at 1gb.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisB17*
> 
> Anyone know how to get the iGpu enabled with the dedicated GPU? It says disabled? But its enabled in bios etc.. Any help?


In Uefi BIOS select [NB Configuration] in the Advanced Menu, then set IGFX Multi Monitor to [Enabled], set Primary Video Device to [PCIE/PCI Video], set Integrated Graphics to [Force] and then set UMA Frame Buffer Size to [2G]. (If you want the iGPU as the primary device, set Primary Video Device to [IGFX Video]).

If you have your discrete GPU running already it may not be necessary, but its a good idea anyway to completely uninstall your Catalyst/Crimson driver before doing this and then reinstall it again afterwards.

Incidentally, there's a utility in the Software folder on the Crossblade driver disc which it doesn't expose, called ASUS Boot Setting. If you install it and pin it to the Taskbar you can click on it and go straight to the Uefi BIOS whenever you want. Its also a quick way of shutting down the system.


----------



## ChrisB17

It is all enabled in bios. Apparently I'm not the only person who noticed this. The amd gaming Fb has a few people that are having the same issue.


----------



## RabbitRu

Why do you want to turn on an iGPU then you have a dGPU?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RabbitRu*
> 
> Why do you want to turn on an iGPU then you have a dGPU?


there are potential uses
http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/Fully-Enabling-A10-7850K-while-Utilizing-Standalone-GPU
from what I've read DX12 will allow offloading work to integrated GPUs.


----------



## mnnglss

Hi, I've been reading this thread for a while and I came up with this OC (caps below), I'm not sure if it's "optimum" but seems stable playing CS:GO for a while. The thing is, I don't know if it's because I don't have a discrete gpu, something's wrong about my OC or that the game is not fully optimized but I start playing with 180fps and during the gameplay after 20/30' frames begin to drop till reaching like 30/40; just playing without AA and all graphic settings in low.

Anyway, does someone see anything wrong or just not optimum in this OC? Because I have to admit that playing with voltages, NB, etc isn't on my knowledge at all hehe.


----------



## yoster

Hi all,

Overclocking my 7850k here but running into the typical 3ghz throttle when the iGPU is in use.

When to download AmdMsrTweaker from the site below but it says the file is no longer available. Anyone know of an alternate download site - or - an alternate tool that allows me to modify the P5 state?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285742-AmdMsrTweaker-New-Versions

Thanks


----------



## drmrlordx

Ouch, you're right. It looks like the archive is missing from that download location.

Try here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/brloaf97p9ks2va/AmdMsrTweaker_1.1.zip?dl=0

at least until the original file host can resolve whatever issue is preventing access to the file via the normal link


----------



## 7850K

another option is k15tk which is a gui frontend for amdmsrtweaker I believe
http://www.overclock.net/t/1555362/kaveri-overclocking-utility-k15tk


----------



## yoster

Thank you gents - life savers


----------



## RabbitRu

Already postedI have a copy on my pc, here you go

msrtwk.zip 232k .zip file


----------



## IndyV72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Check here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/0_50


This is the same exact problem that I am having. I've followed the guide provided as well, have all the utilities to OC, but my APU (A10 7850K) still caps at 1700 MHz.

A88XM MSI Mobo

Honestly though, when reading through all the guide and the forums, I find it very confusing.


----------



## Zyro71

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IndyV72*
> 
> This is the same exact problem that I am having. I've followed the guide provided as well, have all the utilities to OC, but my APU (A10 7850K) still caps at 1700 MHz.
> 
> A88XM MSI Mobo
> 
> Honestly though, when reading through all the guide and the forums, I find it very confusing.


My MSI, did this even when I had all the power saving settings off. The only thing that helped was to upgrade the bios, and even then it would still lock itself to 3ghz even if I had a 4400mhz cpu OC due to the igp being used. This chip is extremely wonky, to the point you can only OC one or the other.


----------



## drmrlordx

You have to edit your p4 and p5 power states to prevent the CPU throttling during iGPU usage, AND you have to have some or all of the power-saving features (particularly APM; possibly others) to get an actual performance benefit from the process.

If your board has underbuilt VRMs and/or socket and you're pushing it beyond its ability to deliver power to the CPU safely, the board may throttle you anyway. We saw that some time ago with a user that tried to watercool a 4.6/4.7 GHz 7850k on an ASrock Extreme6+ . He could get reported clockspeeds of up to 4.7 GHz, but performance stopped improving at 4.5 GHz, even when the iGPU was not in use.


----------



## TinoArg

I notice that the CPU doesn't throttle with some games, as Wolfenstein The New Order (The CPU even goes full Turbo!), and sometimes with Borderlands 1 and 2. With the most of the other games, the CPU lock at P5 state.

My P-States (I left Turbo enabled, with high clocks, so the CPU doesn't consume and heat a lot as if I left a +4.2GHz base clock).







The average power consuption is:
Idle: ~35W
CPU Only (Turbo Off): ~90W (with CPU at P3)
CPU Only (Turbo On): ~105W (with CPU at P0-P3)
CPU+GPU: 80W (with CPU at P5)
GPU Only: 55W (with CPU at P7)
Bioshock: 90W (with CPU at P5)
Wolfenstein: 125W!! (with CPU at P0-P3)
Borderlands: 95W (with CPU at P5 with some jumps to P0-P3)

PS: I put this modded BIOS (Stilts's GeAPM off), and now I have a similar behavior than Wolfenstein in other games.

TDP is around ~120W (127W peak) when gaming. I have custom heatsinks with a fan in my VRMs.


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> You have to edit your p4 and p5 power states to prevent the CPU throttling during iGPU usage, AND you have to have some or all of the power-saving features (particularly APM; possibly others) to get an actual performance benefit from the process.


I and some others have tried to edit the p4 and p5 and it didn't improve gaming performances significantly. It is weird but true. See for example :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/80#post_23972309

and

http://www.overclock.net/t/1588994/disabling-igpu-usage-induced-cpu-throttling-geapm-steamroller-apus

But you already answered to that







:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1526817/cpufrequtils-the-linux-answer-to-p5-state-throttling-kaveri/10#post_24831290


----------



## drmrlordx

I actually noticed that simply editing p4 and p5 states in amdmsrtweaker alone will not improve gaming performance. In fact, it can introduce stuttering and hitching which is annoying as hell.

I did notice improved performance after I disabled apm, though my 7700k likes to get crashy when I do that now. I'm not sure what is the problem, though for me, it is not worth it to perform a more-intensive diagnosis.

When playing games, the throttling isn't a constant as it is when running something like Furmark or GPUPi, so the performance loss is not too great, but you can still pick up a few FPS if you can manage to get it stable with apm disabled and p4/p5 states edited to match max clocks.

Really, you'd be better off running one of The Stilt's modded BIOS/UEFI versions that disabled GeAPM.


----------



## zozo1

Well, for me the tiny gaming performance gain provided by editing p4 and p5 is not worth it considering the chip would generate quite more heat this way when gaming, but it is up to anyone who wants to push his apu to its limits...


----------



## zeusz4u

After playing quite a bit with this chip and testing it daily for the last few months, I now have an idea of what this chip is capable of.

The truth is, that even by overclocking the P4 and P5 states will probably only cause issues and instability, when there's really little gain in games. Also power saving features will need to be disabled from the BIOS to avoid other issues with P4/5 overclock -> resulting more energy consumed when running in idle or not really doing anything on the PC.
What I've seen is that chip should be either overclocked on the iGPU side or the CPU side. If you pick both, there's a good chance that you'll see issues.

I couldn't really get it to run stable at 4 GHz + 900 MHz iGPU running on DDR3 2400 MHz CAS 10 G.Skill memory. Sooner or later would have crashed anyway (indeed, rarely but it would happen sometimes which was annoying in the middle of the game or why talking on Skype).

Right now reduced CPU multiplier to x38 and iGPU is still clocked at 900 MHz. Also I had to bump the iGPU NB Voltage to over 1.3V now. Any lower voltage would crash in the middle of the game at some point. Also it seems that reducing the CPU multiplier by 2 also made it more stable with the iGPU overclock in effect. Altough I'm still not sure if there really is a noticable difference, I'm going to re-run the benchmark tests, but with P4 and P5 overclocked I even noticed a smaller score in benchmarks and I cannot explain it. The only explanation I have is that the iGPU also throttles under high CPU load because there's a lot of heat produced, and I think the P4 and P5 state overclock doesn't really help since the die is overheating even with proper cooling solution installed (I have a Hyper 212 Evo).

Also in my latest UEFI from AsRock there's not even a 1 GHz overclock for the iGPU available anymore, the highest you can go is 900 MHz, I think this would be the highest frequency where the iGPU would remain stable on the long run. There's no way you could run this iGPU at 1GHZ @1.2V NB, impossible from what I've seen. It would boot and run windows, but you'll definitely get annoying random crashes (even during Idle), so the OC tutorials all over the interenet, which mention even 1.1-1.2 GHZ overclock on the iGPU (some even at 1.2-1.25V) are not tested well enough







.


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeusz4u*
> 
> I couldn't really get it to run stable at 4 GHz + 900 MHz iGPU running on DDR3 2400 MHz CAS 10 G.Skill memory. Sooner or later would have crashed anyway
> [...]
> Right now reduced CPU multiplier to x38 and iGPU is still clocked at 900 MHz. Also I had to bump the iGPU NB Voltage to over 1.3V now. Any lower voltage would crash in the middle of the game at some point.
> [...]
> Also in my latest UEFI from AsRock there's not even a 1 GHz overclock for the iGPU available anymore, the highest you can go is 900 MHz, I think this would be the highest frequency where the iGPU would remain stable on the long run.
> [...]
> There's no way you could run this iGPU at 1GHZ @1.2V NB, impossible from what I've seen [...] so the OC tutorials all over the interenet, which mention even 1.1-1.2 GHZ overclock on the iGPU (some even at 1.2-1.25V) are not tested well enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I overclocked my A8-7650K at CPU 4.3 Ghz / GPU 1107 Mhz and it seems perfectly stable, so you might be missing something. The CPU/NB voltages you're mentionning look very low to me. I need 1.4125v to make Crysis 3 stable on the long term and 1.375v for all my other games, so I set at 1.4125v.
EDIT : well, finally it might not be a good idea to set the cpu/nb voltage so high. According to the Stilt the max safe limit is 1.32v. I will certainly lower my iGPU frequency in order to be able to lower the cpu/nb voltage.

On the other hand, sometimes limitations simply come from the motherboard. I had a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H and I couldn't manage to overclock the iGPU at all nor to use my RAM at 2400 Mhz. I replaced it by an Asus A88XM-Plus and these limitations vanished.

Also be cautious with LLC, for me it caused instability so I had to set it on "regular".

The only problem I have now is slight audio and video interferences which I think are caused by the high CPU/NB voltage but it's almost unnoticeable so it's ok (in fact it was problematic with my VGA connected screen but I bought an HDMI to VGA adapter and the video interferences almost disappeared).

I detailed my build and settings here (post n°10 to this day) : http://www.overclock.net/t/1545544/a8-7650k-build-with-benches#post_24961917

Quote:


> with P4 and P5 overclocked I even noticed a smaller score in benchmarks and I cannot explain it. The only explanation I have is that the iGPU also throttles under high CPU load because there's a lot of heat produced


For sure you need a very good cooling system if you want to overclock your APU + edit the p4 and p5, unless you managed to use very low voltages. However you should be able to check if your chip is throttling because of heat by checking its temps. I'm not sure but I think the 7850K begins to throttle at 72,4°C (that's the Maximum operating temperature according to CPU-World). AIDA64 or SpeedFan should be fine for monitoring your temps, or maybe AMD OverDrive but I didn't try it (I don't trust overclocking softwares very much).


----------



## zozo1

Several posts on that thread say that maximum safe cpu/nb voltage would be around 1.3v. Why do you think so people ? Isn't my 1.4125v setting safe as long as the temps are ok and I don't use LLC ? I read in some other threads that even 1.5v would be fine for some chips...

EDIT : it looks like 1.4v is the default cpu/nb voltage for some boards when using 2400 Mhz memory :

Quote:


> Guys, can someone explain whether the CPU NB voltage safe limits are determined by CPU or motherboard? Because my ASRock FM2A88X extreme 4+ has a very high stock NB voltage, and I even emailed them asking if it was safe. Their reply was
> "The CPU_NB voltage will be changed with DRAM frequency and the default CPU_NB voltage is 1.4V when DRAM frequency is DDR3-2400.
> We wouldn't use it if it wasn't safe. It is also in our best interest to keep the motherboard alive"
> If the CPU NB voltage is totally motherboard depenedent, then I'd be happy to set it to such a high value I guess. But if it also depends on CPU, I don't think it'd be that safe, as other motherboards set it to a much lower value, or is this logic not right?


(http://www.overclock.net/t/1460028/amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-overclock-guide/590#post_22257783)

EDIT : I looked for the answer and I might have found it. According to the Stilt the safe maximum for cpu/nb voltage is 1.32v :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/470#post_24941815


----------



## drmrlordx

I'm not sure what is the "safe" limit for vNB. I use anywhere from 1.325 - 1.35 depending on the settings. More than that doesn't seem to help much. I can do DDR3-2400 with vNB that low, and really all I need is around 1.25v for that speed if that's all I'm after.


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I'm not sure what is the "safe" limit for vNB. I use anywhere from 1.325 - 1.35 depending on the settings. More than that doesn't seem to help much. I can do DDR3-2400 with vNB that low, and really all I need is around 1.25v for that speed if that's all I'm after.


Me too I don't need high cpu/nb voltage for RAM stability, but I need it for highly overclocked iGPU stability... EDIT : so maybe it means my iGPU is too overclocked. See my posts above...


----------



## Katsutoshi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I actually noticed that simply editing p4 and p5 states in amdmsrtweaker alone will not improve gaming performance. In fact, it can introduce stuttering and hitching which is annoying as hell.
> 
> I did notice improved performance after I disabled apm, though my 7700k likes to get crashy when I do that now. I'm not sure what is the problem, though for me, it is not worth it to perform a more-intensive diagnosis.
> 
> When playing games, the throttling isn't a constant as it is when running something like Furmark or GPUPi, so the performance loss is not too great, but you can still pick up a few FPS if you can manage to get it stable with apm disabled and p4/p5 states edited to match max clocks.
> 
> Really, you'd be better off running one of The Stilt's modded BIOS/UEFI versions that disabled GeAPM.


I found out about this a weeks ago.

With IGP i had a lot of stuttering and didn't know what was causing this. Then i tried to leave the P4 and P5 at default and saw a slighty gain in games.

But now i have to ask: Someone is suffering some image bugs using IGP? Like some rare cases, pages on chrome start to flicker?


----------



## zeusz4u

Quote:


> The only problem I have now is slight audio and video interferences which I think are caused by the high CPU/NB voltage but it's almost unnoticeable so it's ok


What NB frequency do you have? I was having the same lag at 2100 MHz, after lowering the NB freq to 1900 MHz, the sound issues vanished. It's most probably a problem with the NB frequency. 1.4V is really high. I have already burnt 1 of these APU's altough not sure why, and I got covered by warranty, but I wouldn't run it at 1.425 V for very long time. On my AsRock the defautl frequency is 1.275V, but it can be lowered further if you don't plan to overclock the iGPU and you're sticking with 720 MHz.

I don't have levels for LLC, only have like on or off, for either CPU, iGPU or both. I'm keeping mine turned on since it makes things a lot more stable as far as I've seen, but you cannot try extreme voltages and push the APU to it's limits with LLC turned on.


----------



## Feimitsu

On my 7870K I had sounds lag even during mp3 playback. It was caused by:

- C6 enabled in BIOS
- any GPU clock setting other than "Auto"

I have set my APU at [email protected] for all P-states, NB [email protected] (it jumps automatically to 1.2875 while GPU is being used), RAM is set @2400MHz with XMP timings, 1.45V (it could be massively downvolted)


----------



## zozo1

Well, my english is not perfect and I might have been unclear. What I called interferences is not a lag : on the audio side it's a modulated noise, and on the video side it's horizontal faint stripes circulating vertically on the screen. I think it's a ground loop phenomenon. It almost vanishes with default settings so it is linked to overclocking but I should make more tests to determine the exact cause. I think it is related tu cpu/nb voltage as it looks like an electrical issue and affects the video. However this problem is quite solved now.
Quote:


> I wouldn't run it at 1.425 V for very long time.


yeah, I had read in some forums that even 1.5v would be fine for some chips and I thought it could apply for Kaveri but it looks like it doesn't, so I decreased the iGPU frequency and the cpu/nb voltage yesterday.
1.4125 was needed to make the iGPU stable at 1107 Mhz. To keep the cpu/nb voltage under 1.32v I think I will have to set the iGPU at about 960 Mhz so I'm a bit sad but I don't think the loss of performance will be huge, it will certainly be something like 3 or 4 % so I should be capable of resigning myself to that







The advantage is my chip will be much cooler now.
Quote:


> I don't have levels for LLC, only have like on or off, for either CPU, iGPU or both. I'm keeping mine turned on since it makes things a lot more stable as far as I've seen


ok, I think it's different for each config. For me using a higher Vcore value makes the CPU much more stable than if I use LLC (for the same really applied maximal Vcore).
I didn't try it for the iGPU, partly because I didn't find a way to monitor the cpu/nb voltage accurately, but now that I lowered the value it seems monitoring softwares are giving me accurate numbers. EDIT : I finally tried for the cpu/nb voltage and I reached the exact same conclusion as for the Vcore, so LLC is just to be avoided for my config.

"regular" means "off" in my BIOS.


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> I have set my APU at [email protected] for all P-states,


Why do you downclock your cpu ? I'm just curious.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zozo1*
> 
> Why do you downclock your cpu ? I'm just curious.


1) because I fold with BOINC and I have a SFF enclosure, so I prefer silence over raw performance
2) at 3.1GHz, most games are still GPU limited, my CPU usage is never topped
3) if I need raw power, I just double click on the 4GHz profile


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> 1) because I fold with BOINC and I have a SFF enclosure, so I prefer silence over raw performance
> 2) at 3.1GHz, most games are still GPU limited, my CPU usage is never topped
> 3) if I need raw power, I just double click on the 4GHz profile


ok it makes sense indeed









I think you will loose some performance in cpu intensive games even if your cpu usage is not topped, but certainly not much (I think I noticed that with Starcraft 2 but I didn't test rigorously)


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Anyone in here tested Hitman in DX12 yet? Especially the built in benchmark.

I am very curious to see results for these quad cores.....


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zozo1*
> 
> ok it makes sense indeed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you will loose some performance in cpu intensive games even if your cpu usage is not topped, but certainly not much (I think I noticed that with Starcraft 2 but I didn't test rigorously)


Also, the power consumption at [email protected] only increases of 10W, so I might stick to that once I get a more silent fan for the CPU


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Also, the power consumption at [email protected] only increases of 10W, so I might stick to that once I get a more silent fan for the CPU


I don't know if you replaced the stock cooler but if you didn't and you can afford to buy a new one I have a Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP which is really small and silent and not so expensive.

As for fans, I use a few Be Quiet Silent Wings 2, a bit expensive but maybe the most silent existing fans at the moment. Scythe Slip Streams might have a better noise/performance ratio and are cheap but it would be necessary to undervolt them to make them silent and they make a clicking noise (at least the PWM version) which is faint but audible if you're very close to the pc.

But if you still have the stock cooler and want to keep it you certainly need something like a 70 mm fan and I never tried any...


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zozo1*
> 
> I don't know if you replaced the stock cooler but if you didn't and you can afford to buy a knew one I have a Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP which is really small and silent and not so expensive.
> 
> As for fans, I use a few Be Quiet Silent Wings 2, a bit expensive but maybe the most silent existing fans at the moment. Scythe Slip Streams might have a better noise/performance ratio and are cheap but it would be necessary to undervolt them to make them silent and they make a clicking noise (at least the PWM version) which is faint but audible if you're very close to the pc.
> 
> But if you still have the stock cooler and want to keep it you certainly need something like a 70 mm fan and I never tried any...


Yeah well I think the stock cooler (125W) is really good for its size and the only bad thing is its standard fan. I ordered a 70mm Sunon Maglev, it should come in a few weeks, I will report about it









For my case, the maximum height is 65mm anyway, so that category of cooler does not improve that much over the stock AMD 125W (I think), and if it does, it does it on silence mostly.


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> For my case, the maximum height is 65mm anyway, so that category of cooler does not improve that much over the stock AMD 125W (I think), and if it does, it does it on silence mostly.


ok so the Shadow Rock LP would not fit as it's 75.4 mm high. For sure the stock cooler should be fine for temps but a cooler with a large fan would probably be much more silent. It's up to you of course !


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zozo1*
> 
> ok so the Shadow Rock LP would not fit as it's 75.4 mm high. For sure the stock cooler should be fine for temps but a cooler with a large fan would probably be much more silent. It's up to you of course !


yeah, my choices are between the Shuriken, Big Shuriken, Panorama and the Silverstone AR-06. I will see how the new fan performs and then decide


----------



## zozo1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> yeah, my choices are between the Shuriken, Big Shuriken, Panorama and the Silverstone AR-06. I will see how the new fan performs and then decide


yes good idea, just try and see...


----------



## kwell42

I can hit over 2600 but only with 1 stick at a time on my 5800k, 2 just takes the CPU to higher power levels it can't handle if you underclock the CPU and over clock the RAM and gfx u can go higher but you can't have all 3


----------



## gertman29

A few people on here have been saying that they can`t get their A10 7850k to clock past 1.7Ghz. If you are using the msi A88XM gaming motherboard I have a possible solution for you. this motherboard has a slowmode switch just under the reset button, with it enabled it will keep your cpu at 1.7, but it will let you overclock your ram and graphics higher than without it. turn it off and it will return your clock speed to normal. check the motherboard manual on page en-26. Hope this helps


----------



## H1vemind

Hey everyone, I was building a mini itx system based around a x760k, gigabyte a88x motherboard and a 120mm Aio cooler, unfortunately I damaged the Aio installing it in the case and it has leaked and bricked at least the cpu. The system still powers on but I get nothing from it. Do you think it would be worth trying to replace the cpu and cooler?


----------



## Katsutoshi

Guys, i managed to stabilize 2400Mhz RAM on F2A88XM-D3H.
I bought some materials and cutted a heatsink and adapted on VRM. Now the 2400Mhz RAM works like a charm.

But now i have a problem. Since my last post i reinstalled my S.O and now if i overclock my IGP, the clock seems stuck in 720Mhz (default clock for my IGP) and the softwares seems to recognize the clock i set on the BIOS.



I wish i don't need to reinstall my S.O to resolve this problem ...

EDIT:
Seems this is a limitation from the BIOS. The F8 BIOS limits the GPU overclock at 960 Mhz... and the F9 limits at 720Mhz.


----------



## drmrlordx

Yeah some boards have GPU clockspeed limitations, though I have never heard of any of them walking back the max GPU OC with a newer UEFI revision.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Well, i thought to bring some results for who have the same motherboard (F2A88XM-D3H).

After some days testing i have some experience to share.

1 - Installing a heatsink solves the problem of the unstable of Kingston HyperX Savage running at 2400Mhz.
2 - GPU Overclock became stable, in my case, F8 BIOS, i only be able to overclock up to 960Mhz.
3 - NB overclock don't bring good results. Just overclock to 1900Mhz, and you don't see anything when the SO starts. Maybe too much heat?
4 - Installing a FAN helps a lot too. The VRM of this board runs hot as the hell.
5 - Overclocking the CPU to 4.3Ghz with the memory and igp OC don't work well. All you can see is some screen corruption when the VRM starts to "burn".

So in the end: In hot days, i put the CPU to run [email protected], IGP 960 and RAM 2400Mhz. Until i swap the heatsink (very improbably i will do this) or put a better fan to bring some ventilation.


----------



## drmrlordx

Sounds a lot like what people run into with 4+2 boards that have poor VRM cooling on FM2+. You will run into board restrictions before anything else. It's quite common, and your results are pretty normal. Plus the 960 mhz iGPU restriction is/was fairly common on Gigabyte FM2+ boards.


----------



## THUMPer1

I think I've been overclocking these all wrong.

In HWmonitor I only had 2 cores at 4.5. The other 2 were like 1.7. I turned AMD COOL AND QUIET on and now all 4 are at 4.5Ghz.

I've built 2 personal APU machines and overclocked them all. I've built 20 APU office machines but never overclocked them so they should all be good.

What is going on here with that COOL AND QUIET? I thought it was supposed to be disabled.

I have confirmed in AIDA in some quick benches that with the option enable and disabled it really is making a difference.


----------



## Katsutoshi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THUMPer1*
> 
> I think I've been overclocking these all wrong.
> 
> In HWmonitor I only had 2 cores at 4.5. The other 2 were like 1.7. I turned AMD COOL AND QUIET on and now all 4 are at 4.5Ghz.
> 
> I've built 2 personal APU machines and overclocked them all. I've built 20 APU office machines but never overclocked them so they should all be good.
> 
> What is going on here with that COOL AND QUIET? I thought it was supposed to be disabled.
> 
> I have confirmed in AIDA in some quick benches that with the option enable and disabled it really is making a difference.


Here, when this happened was because of something about the voltages... Then i did a reboot and the CPU turned normal.

About CnQ, i use it even overclocking the CPU, because it keeps my CPU with low temps. If i put 4.5 Ghz (here this freq, only runs with 1.45v) all the time, the temps skyrocket in hot days.


----------



## SlyDraco

hey did you ever figure out what caused this im on the same boat


----------



## SlyDraco

hey guys been trying to figure this out i have an msi a88x-g45 with a10 7850k wont go over 1.7Ghz regardless of what i do i called msi that was useless emailed amd useless as well please help unlock da power oh overclock gurus lol


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlyDraco*
> 
> hey guys been trying to figure this out i have an msi a88x-g45 with a10 7850k wont go over 1.7Ghz regardless of what i do i called msi that was useless emailed amd useless as well please help unlock da power oh overclock gurus lol


Toggle the switch (Slow_Mode) located under the reset button to another position.


----------



## SlyDraco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Toggle the switch (Slow_Mode) located under the reset button to another position.










[/URL] omg.... it's on....


----------



## SlyDraco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Toggle the switch (Slow_Mode) located under the reset button to another position.


----------



## rubyweaponchi

I was able to get my motherboard to stably (cross your fingers) run ddr3 at 2400Mhz.

I have an AMD A10 7850k on a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H and the EVGA 2400Mhz 2x8 gb sticks and a 430W EVGA power supply.

SKU
898445
Mfr Part#
16G-D3-2400-MR
UPC
843368034054
I have the F9 Gigabyte bios.
Here's what I did:

1. LOWER the RAM voltage to EXACTLY 1.54V.

Most of the time, articles will tell you to set the voltage higher, but I found that mine works best at EXACTLY 1.54V. (ran Windows Memtest without any errors, played Metal Gear Solid V for two hours) The JEDEC spec says 1.65V, however, the computer would give a BSOD during any gaming if I had the Voltage higher than 1.54V.

At 1.55V, the over-power/over-heating issue would occur. But 1.54V seems to be the sweet spot to use this with the APU.

2.
INCREASE NB voltage by 0.018V.
INCREASE VCore Voltage by 0.018V.
Set Vcore Loadline Calibration to Extreme.
Set NBVID Loadline Calibration to Extreme also.

Initially, when I had the RAM at 1.54V, @ 2400Mhz without these increases, it would crash a game back to Windows. However, when I increased the NB and Core voltages, this seemed to cure the underpowering issue.

4. Automatically set the Timings. The RAM seems to work best at looser timings. The JEDEC spec suggests 11-13-13-35, but that never seemed to work for me. When I booted with AUTO settings, it chose looser settings and seemed to be fine: 11-16-16-42.

5. Disable X.M.P. and AMD profile.

6. Set RAM multiplier to 24.

7. Change some settings on the Core. I left the CPU clock at stock, enabled Cool and Quiet, and disabled most everthing else.

All other settings are at stock. I didn't change the NB frequency, it's at 1800Mhz.

Hopefully this will help someone who is having trouble overclocking the ram to 2400 with a similar set-up.


----------



## gapottberg

Saw some tech articles that suggest APUs when paired with higher end cards via Explicit Multi Adapter mode are able to perform better than the dGPU solo.

I was hesitant to buy into the hype of GCN and integrated iGPUs actually providing a benifit beyond low end graphics, but it appears to be a reality in software that codes properly for it.

I built a 7850k for my son almost 2 years ago now and if this proves to become mainstream and true it may just extend the life of his rig with dGPU upgrade for some time.

The Article reference above:
http://wccftech.com/directx-12-multiadapter-technology-discrete-integrated-gpus-work-coherently-demo-shows-big-performance-gains/


----------



## Himo5

Look out for some Futuremark Time Spy benchmark results which test all that Dx12 stuff pretty thoroughly.


----------



## drmrlordx

Ashes of the Singularity was supposed to make use of compliant iGPUs (GCN etc) in some beta or other, but I'm not sure we ever got to that point? It's about time if people are starting to actually use the iGPUs for low-latency compute functions.


----------



## gapottberg

Ok i have my sons 7850k machine for the week again to tune up and do some benchmarking. Here is the hardware im running on it atm.

7850k APU
8GB Gskill Trident X memory (stock 2400c10)
MSI A88XM Gaming Mobo (most current bios r1.7)

Im looking for info on some of the more obscure voltages as after reading through this thread multiple times some of you have had success playing with them.

I have never been able to get this 2400 speed memory stable at its stock settings. Barely even bootable when i try. Seems rock solid at 2133c9 though. Also highest NB clock i can achieve is 2000 before stability falls off a cliff.

Ill be doing what i can to maximize the memory bandwidth byvolaying with voltages again.

I may also pull my 390x out of my other rig and see how this APU holds up with EMA enabeled Vs my 8320e.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gapottberg*
> 
> 8GB Gskill Trident X memory (stock 2400c10)
> MSI A88XM Gaming Mobo (most current bios r1.7)
> 
> I have never been able to get this 2400 speed memory stable at its stock settings. Barely even bootable when i try. Seems rock solid at 2133c9 though. Also highest NB clock i can achieve is 2000 before stability falls off a cliff.


for what it's worth I have the same RAM on a Gigabyte A88X-UP4 and I could never get it stable at the rated timings either. I had to loosen the timings to keep the frequency stable. looser 2400 is ultimately better for the igpu than tigher 2133.


----------



## gapottberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> for what it's worth I have the same RAM on a Gigabyte A88X-UP4 and I could never get it stable at the rated timings either. I had to loosen the timings to keep the frequency stable. looser 2400 is ultimately better for the igpu than tigher 2133.


How loose we talking? Ive tried looser which is how i got it to boot at all @ 2400. I saw above a guy was using crazy loose timmings andnlower voltage. May give that a try today.

[Edit]

Ok i cant get it gaming stable at 15.16.16.42.2t with 1.7v to ram and 1.35v to CPU-NB, which is about as far as im willing to push voltages without more info. And timings cant get much looser on my board. Thats literally max setting in some cases.

I was able to get a nova bench gpu score that was 20fps faster than my best 2133 speed even with thise loose timings, so bandwidth does seem to be way more important than latency, but it crashes in games and sythetic benches.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gapottberg*
> 
> How loose we talking? Ive tried looser which is how i got it to boot at all @ 2400. I saw above a guy was using crazy loose timmings andnlower voltage. May give that a try today.


I'm using 11-13-13-38 1.65v.


----------



## gapottberg

Alright boyz and gouls...im giving up. Ive thrown every possible combination of timing and voltage on this sob i can think of with zero configurations able to pass a basic sythetic bench at 2400 speed.

Id play around with the other voltage settings like vdd and pll if i had time but i don't. I get my hands on this rig about one week a year to tune it since it is my son's rig and stays at his mom's otherwise.

I have 2133 stable at 9.10.10.28.2t timings (cant seem to get 1t to go) and i will play around with the iGPU and CPU a bit more.

This board has been nothing but a headache. I wish i had bought the corsair vengeance which are on the compatibility list while these are not. Lesson learned when building an APU. Go for the highest clock memory on the mgf list of known supported dims only.

[UPDATE]

Discovered something interesting in my testing of the CPU and iGPU Overclocks. The 3.0ghz cap is real folks. at least in any application that will put max load on the iGPU and throttle it to 3.0GHz (for those of us who don't have the software fix anyways).



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







From the above 3 tests you can clearly see that in the benchmarks that fully stress the iGPU there is no difference in fps with CPU clocks above 3.0GHz. However, higher iGPU clocks do improve fps significantly. My advice at this point in squeezing what you can out of the APU without a dGPU in it is this...

Ram bandwidth > iGPU OC's > CPU OC's

I am locking the CPU at 3.0GHz and undervolting the CPU while pushing the RAM and iGPU as far as i can go for the best results i have seen in the 2-3 years i've had this chip. Just wish my Ram would hit 2400 cuz the few times i have managed to finish a test it shows much larger gains than anything else. Just never stable enough to leave it there.


----------



## Himo5

Bearing in mind that TridentX is set for Intel timings, I heard way back somewhere that they work better with Amd chips if you stagger the second two, so 2400/c10s may work at 10-12-13-31 where they wouldn't at 10-12-12-31, especially if you make sure the command rate is set to 2 instead of 1 and maybe lift the 4th timing a little, say 10-12-13-33-2.


----------



## gapottberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Bearing in mind that TridentX is set for Intel timings, I heard way back somewhere that they work better with Amd chips if you stagger the second two, so 2400/c10s may work at 10-12-13-31 where they wouldn't at 10-12-12-31, especially if you make sure the command rate is set to 2 instead of 1 and maybe lift the 4th timing a little, say 10-12-13-33-2.


I may have time to give that a try this week. I'll let you all know how it goes.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gapottberg*
> 
> [UPDATE]
> 
> Discovered something interesting in my testing of the CPU and iGPU Overclocks. The 3.0ghz cap is real folks. at least in any application that will put max load on the iGPU and throttle it to 3.0GHz (for those of us who don't have the software fix anyways).


with amdmsrtweaker you can set the throttle P-states (P4 and P5) to whatever you like. Here is undervolter's guide to using amdmsrtweaker http://www.overclock.net/t/1499562/undervolting-editing-p-states-for-piledriver-using-amd-mrstweaker-mini-guide
The Stilt has some modified BIOS files that can disable the throttle, but I could not get my board to accept them. http://www.overclock.net/t/1588994/disabling-igpu-usage-induced-cpu-throttling-geapm-steamroller-apus


----------



## gapottberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> with amdmsrtweaker you can set the throttle P-states (P4 and P5) to whatever you like. Here is undervolter's guide to using amdmsrtweaker http://www.overclock.net/t/1499562/undervolting-editing-p-states-for-piledriver-using-amd-mrstweaker-mini-guide
> The Stilt has some modified BIOS files that can disable the throttle, but I could not get my board to accept them. http://www.overclock.net/t/1588994/disabling-igpu-usage-induced-cpu-throttling-geapm-steamroller-apus


I have seen both those fixes but have not tried them. Anyone here able to do a test them with benches they can post? I am curious if the extra CPU power offers more gains than iGPU. As it is if you dont fix them there is literally no point in clocking your cores above 3.0 for gaming and daily home/office use. You will see no noticable gains in either. If you do more CPU intensive stuff that doesnt involve the iGPU then by all means try and get above 4.0 but if not...shrugs...pointless.


----------



## drmrlordx

I have used amdmsrtweaker extensively. You need to disable APM for it to work properly or you get stuttering when high-clock p4/p5 states are engaged, and it's difficult to maintain stability while APM is disabled. I highly recommend the GeAPM disabled BIOS/UEFI fixes offered by The Stilt if you can get your board to accept them (cheaper Asus boards are touch and go at best).


----------



## gapottberg

I think the real question is whether or not its worth messing with fixing the 3.0GHz cap. Bottom line imo, at least when it comes to games, is fps netted.

From what i can tell i am able to net roughly a 20% increase in performance when locking the CPU at 3.0GHz and bumping the iGPU by 200MHz over its stock setting. That is a pretty strong return on investment that will benifit anyone running demanding graphics in games with minimal CPU demands.

I want to see data that shows me 2 things...

#1 what are the likely gains per +100MHz of clock on the CPU...does it show me any at all and if so are they better than the gains from iGPU?

#2 what are the limitations of bumping both? To clarify, at what point does adding to the CPU force me to drop my iGPU gains due to power or heat restraints? You may be able to have both to a point but that point is critical to know. It can help you decide if one offers more gains which you should invest in to a greater degree.

I can only push my iGPU to 1024 as it is. If i can get an extra couple 100 on the CPU for free id take it, but at the point a higher CPU clock forces me to drop the iGPU then that raio of gains per +100MHz becomes critical in deciding if i do it.

Clearly the actual gains would differ from game to game, situation to situation...but a good set of data and some strong benchmarking tools can help you make the most balanced choice.


----------



## drmrlordx

If you allow GeAPM throttling, you don't lose as many FPS as you'd expect since you don't spend 100% of the CPU's time throttled to p4 or p5 states. It's complicated. But basically if you do not use a solution like amdmsrtweaker, you can expect to lose a few frames here and there depending on your resolution. The more CPU-dependent the game, the more you lose. With my 7700k fully overclock to 4.7 GHz and all the trimmings (something I can't do anymore; chip is degraded), I could lose maybe 20-30 fps playing something old like TF2. On 3DMark FireStrike I would lose maybe 100-200 points. It was never that big of a deal.

The thing you need to think about, is that iGPU compute tasks (thing HSA/OpenCL 2.0/DirectX12) can also make the CPU throttle. If games ever mature to the point where they're using multiadapter tech that can incorporate the iGPU in some useful fashion, you will get CPU throttling even when using a dGPU. And that may have more of an impact.


----------



## gapottberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> If you allow GeAPM throttling, you don't lose as many FPS as you'd expect since you don't spend 100% of the CPU's time throttled to p4 or p5 states. It's complicated. But basically if you do not use a solution like amdmsrtweaker, you can expect to lose a few frames here and there depending on your resolution. The more CPU-dependent the game, the more you lose. With my 7700k fully overclock to 4.7 GHz and all the trimmings (something I can't do anymore; chip is degraded), I could lose maybe 20-30 fps playing something old like TF2. On 3DMark FireStrike I would lose maybe 100-200 points. It was never that big of a deal.
> 
> The thing you need to think about, is that iGPU compute tasks (thing HSA/OpenCL 2.0/DirectX12) can also make the CPU throttle. If games ever mature to the point where they're using multiadapter tech that can incorporate the iGPU in some useful fashion, you will get CPU throttling even when using a dGPU. And that may have more of an impact.


Im sorry but my experience is quite the opposite. You do lose your boost clock on the CPU nearly 100% of the time. The 3.0 drop is a mandatory switch that kicks in whenever the iGPU us at or near full load.

As best i can tell the iGPU has 2 states it runs in. A low power state of 350MHz which allows the CPU to turbo and is usually what you deal with in your OS allowing for you to run your OC CPU stress tests and benches at full CPU clocks when doing mostly CPU heavy tests, and light gpu ones.

Then the iGPU has the stock 720mhz speed state which is what it runs during any sort of graphical load that is significant. That mode will always kick your CPU down to 3.0ghz no matter what else is going on temp or voltage or tdp wise.

That means that pretty much any video game worth its salt will downclock your CPU to the sub standard 3.0ghz clock, without the software fix enagaged of course, all the time. I find in any of the games or sythetics i have benched that it does indeed down clock the entire run because the boost clock on the iGPU is at the 720 state the entire run. Afterburner and 3Dmark both show this...with the only exception being during the physics/CPU tests in 3Dmark. It shows the iGPU down clocking to 350 with the CPU bumping back up to its higher P states and turbo states. Hence the higher scores on my above graphic for the faster CPU clocks. This will not happen however in most games, or at least ones i have tested. The boost clock on the gpu will cap out 100% of the time, which in turn drops your cpu to 3.0

I will double check when i get home tonight and can play with my Kaveri and post more pics to show what im talking about with some visual evidence. There may be situations or games where what you say is true, but i havnt tested them. (Minecraft? LoL)


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gapottberg*
> 
> Im sorry but my experience is quite the opposite. You do lose your boost clock on the CPU nearly 100% of the time. The 3.0 drop is a mandatory switch that kicks in whenever the iGPU us at or near full load.


Ask The_Stilt, CPU monitoring programs will not detect the rapid switches between states. They just won't, ever. You are not going to be in p4/p5 permanently unless you're running Furmark.

Try locking your CPU @ 3 GHz and then run the same benchmark again at full clockspeeds with GeAPM throttling enabled and see what happens. You will get higher FPS despite the throttling and despite CPU-z and other programs telling you that you are throttled 100% of the time.
Quote:


> Then the iGPU has the stock 720mhz speed state which is what it runs during any sort of graphical load that is significant. That mode will always kick your CPU down to 3.0ghz no matter what else is going on temp or voltage or tdp wise.


Incorrect on the iGPU unless you are running stock settings. If you OC the iGPU it will run at whatever speed you tell it to run, assuming it's stable. I had mine at 1028 MHz for a very long time.


----------



## gapottberg

Ive read this thread like 4 times in its entirety. I know what Stilt says. I'm telling you i have evidence that says otherwise. It may be specific to my tests but none the less its there. I will post more data when i have time. Review the picture above for now and pay extra attention to the actual FPS and the CPU and iGPU clock speeds of each run.

I had similar experince in testing game data. I will will attempt to collect and post more here if i get to it before my sons Kaveri goes back to his moms.


----------



## drmrlordx

Sorry, all I see are 3DMark scores with results that do not necessarily support the stated conclusion. You gain 300 points by letting the chip run @ 3.7 GHz with GeAPM throttling. 3DMark isn't all that sensitive to CPU speed so the gains are non-trivial. I would recommend something CPU-bound, like an older game run at a resolution where you can top 100 fps easily.

But hey believe what you will.


----------



## gapottberg

Sigh...you cant look at just the synthetic overall score and come to a valid conclusion. I tried to explain why looking at the individual tests and specificly the FPS matters, and what those differences infer in reguards how differring clocks on the gpu and cpu actually impact your FPS.

When i get home i will do a full anaylasis with graphics to explain my point of view. You can then take it or leave it. It matters not to me. I just want people to be better informed. Anacdotal evidence is a dime a dozen on here and many times its misleading or wrong. Data that can be replicated doesnt lie. Ill post my tet method and my scores and let the numbers do the talking.


----------



## drmrlordx

Okay buddy.


----------



## gapottberg

[EDIT] Moved this post and the discussion it creates to another thread found here.

*Analysis of Kaveri's Downclocking CPU to 3.0GHz when iGPU is under full load*

It has long been known that without using a BIOS fix or other software manipulation that due to power constraints the Kaveri APU chips will force their CPU to down clock to 3.0GHz power state whenever the iGPU is under full load. It has often been speculated what the exact impact of this is on gaming performance. That speculation has lead to a couple of commonly held beliefs based on anecdotal evidence. They are as follows...

#1: The bandwidth bottleneck on the GPU is so large that lower CPU clocks will show little to no performance difference even if they were able to go higher than 3.0GHz.

#2: The clock speeds reported in monitoring software are inaccurate and while they show CPU clocks being held at 3.0GHz, they often jump intermittently between higher states and 3.0GHz depending on the iGPU load. This will allow much of the performance loss one would expect during gaming at lower CPU clocks to be nominal.

My testing will deal primarily with the second Hypothesis. In theory, if that statement is true, then with all other things being relatively equal we should see real performance gains over two tests where the only difference is CPU clock. Being locked at 3.0GHz or being able to periodically able to go higher during the test (even if software doesn't pick it up) would be the deciding factor.

For example, a CPU locked at 3.0GHz in BIOS during a test would exhibit less performance than one that was locked at 3.7GHz in the BIOS, and down clocks to 3.0GHz sporadically during the test due to iGPU loads being high. Because it still maintains higher clocks at times during the run, its scores should show that benefit.

However, should the 3.0GHz downclock actually be persistent and software is reporting properly measured downclocks of 3.0GHz during heavy iGPU loads accurately, (which contradicts speculation #2) then we should see near identical performance between a test with higher CPU clocks and one with CPU locked at 3.0GHz in BIOS.

Additionally, if the 3.0GHz cap is indeed persistent (and you choose not to use a software or BIOS fix) then you may find the fastest performance by locking the CPU at 3.0GHz (with possibly an undervolt to lower temps allowing more headroom on iGPU), and pushing your iGPU clock as high as possible.

NOTE: This lower CPU clock will nominally reduce performance during non iGPU heavy loads, but it will not have in impact during any gaming or other iGPU heavy workloads.

My testing method for this as well as my Hardware set up is as follows...

Using 3DMark do 4 runs of their Skydiver Bench Test, with each run having different Clock speeds on the CPU/GPU as follows.

CPU 3.0 / iGPU 720
CPU 3.7 / iGPU 720

CPU 3.0 / iGPU 1029
CPU 3.7 / iGPU 1029

Looking only at the tests that maximize iGPU load we will record the FPS scores for GFX test 1 and 2 and the Combined Test. The Overall score and Physics tests will be left out due to the fact that they do not put the iGPU under full load. This allows the CPU to maintain higher clocks. We are not investigating whether the CPU can maintain higher clocks under light iGPU loads such as the physics test or your OS home screen. We know it can. We only want to test it when the iGPU is under full load like it would be in any video game with demanding graphics. This type of heavy iGPU load only happens in GFX test 1, 2 and the combined test.

My Hardware list and setting is as follows:

Kaveri 7850K Variable clocks on CPU and iGPU as listed above
8GB Gskill Trident X @ 2133MHz C9.10.10.28.2T
MSI A88XM Gaming NB @1800

Final commentary...

If the tests shows significant performance gains with higher CPU clocks we can support speculation point #2 citing our test a evidence. If it does not, then we as a community should do further investigation into the matter and consider rejecting it.

The Results:










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I will let the community decide for themselves what this means. I have done my part and will not have access to this rig for a long time after today as it goes home with my son today. Hope this was helpful.


----------



## Scougar

I don't think it is a 3000Mhz limit. I think it is a 1000Mhz drop (going from memory here though).

I really think the APU was way too aggressive in trying to restrict the chip's TDP by dropping the CPU's speed. I always used MSRTweaker to adjust the power states, so that if it did drop, I had set what it dropped to (I.e. I just set those lower power states to be my overclocked multiplier and voltage).

Also... unless you are running a CPU intensive program/game, then you are unlikely to notice that much difference. If playing something like Planetside 2, or a RTS, then you are going to see a big impact from the CPU speed dropping, and that is not reflected in your test.

My own chip:

I have been considering getting a better CPU for this system, as mine only goes to around 4.3Ghz reliably, but even if I got 4.7 from an 880k or 7890k or something, I just don't think it would be worth it. I'd be better getting a new motherboard/cpu etc.

As for overclocking, I have to admit I really don't know what voltage settings I should be tinkering with on this 7850K. If I run a 44 multiplier.. it will just randomly freeze the PC, even on desktop. i can go for 30 mins.. and then it just freeze. It is very weird.


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## dzivana

Hello guys, nice forum you have here









Anyway I would like to ask some questions because I can see some experienced guys here, i'm a bit of a noob for OC... anyway here it goes.

I have obviously A10 7850K Apu with GA-F2A88X-D3H Gigabyte MB and 2x4 GB of Kingston HyperX and the cpu is cooled by Cooler Master Nepton 120XL. I put the PC together several years ago just as a second computer mainly for work and to play some casual games. I've played most GPU intensive games on my Asus Rog G750jz notebook. But several days ago i've bought RX470 Nitro+ 8GB (couldn't resist the price in my country







) and obviously the cpu is a bottleneck, anyway until I put some money aside for a new mb, cpu and ram I've done the following to loosen up the bootleneck a bit.

I've disabled the igpu, and OC'd the 7850k.. But for starters the default V of the cpu was 1.45 to begin with xD .. I can't get any stable OC past 4.4 and that is with 1.49 Vcore and it to be stable at that I had to enable the LCC to medium. When I monitor it with Aida or HW monitor the core power varies from 1.50-1.52. It's high but am I missing something? If i don't use the iGpu should i raise the voltage to the NB also? I'm a bit confused, as I say i'm a beginner. The same thing happens either when i overclock in the Bios or with Amd Overdrive. Also when i do a auto system tuning in Overdrive with the stock voltage it always crashes at 4.4.

Any feedback would be greatly appriciated. Thank You


----------



## Himo5

I'm not sure what the phase spec of your motherboard is but I think it should be described as low to moderate, anyway, it's obviously not something Gigabyte want to advertise. So for that level of VRM control support, and with only the one small heatsink over them, 4.4Ghz stable for a 7850K is respectable. I don't think you need worry too much about anything below 1.55V as long as you keep the temperature well below 80C or don't stay up there for days on end.


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## dzivana

I see... The MB was a "budget" one, I wasn't aware at the time that I need a more beefy one. I will see when I get home to put some fans over the VRM's because of my current configuration because of the block on the cpu they are well starved of air, to be honest there isn't much airflow on that part of the mb. For the temps I can't get an accurate reading but in the bios never goes above 55, an in windows when i stress test it in amd overdrive the termal margin is 40 and the air from the radiator is pretty cold. All the reporting sensors within the OS are putting some readings of 22-28 so I don't rely on that.
As for the voltage I was reading or watching some videos (can't remember) to stay well away from 1.5, but anyway the internet is full of opinions







I think if i hit 1.52-1.54 on the core power, when i stress test not on the VID (set to 1.48 for example) I can get it to work to 4.6ish.


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## 7850K

That shouldn't be the default voltage for a 7850K. Sounds like you have the Godavari BIOS rev. It's default voltage is higher than Kaveri's. I tried to look up the revisions for your board but the gigabyte page was giving me an error. Using the Godavari rev gave some other users here stability issues with overclocking.


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## dzivana

Yes, I've updated the bios right out of the box to support the cpu. I'm on the latest F7 version.


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## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dzivana*
> 
> Yes, I've updated the bios right out of the box to support the cpu. I'm on the latest F7 version.


what I'm saying is the latest version could be your issue. Godavari support revisions were added and people with Kaveri updated and had issues.


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## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> what I'm saying is the latest version could be your issue. Godavari support revisions were added and people with Kaveri updated and had issues.


Correct. I had to stay on the last BIOS revision for my ASUS A88X-Pro that didn't have Godavari support when I was running an 860K. The later revisions that supported Godavari were a disaster with my Kaveri CPU. I didn't flash to the latest until my 870K arrived, after which I immediately shut the system down and installed the new CPU.


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## dzivana

I will try to downgrade the bios tomorrow, also as I've mentioned above I've installed some fans over the VRM's and it made no difference. I'm thinkering around now and I'll see how things go. I have to ask again because i'm not sure, do I have to touch the NB voltage or should I leave it alone because i'm OC just the cpu portion


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## dzivana

Hey guys, just a little update, I will post some screenshots tomorrow. As I've said before the VRM fans didn't change a thing, I've downgrade the Bios to a previous non-Godavari version, the default voltage dropped to 1.38. Anyway I couldn't make it to work stable at more than 4.4 no matter what. I've tried to do auto system tuning via the Amd Overdrive with voltage boost ticked, just to see what the software will come up with, it crashed at 4.6 and the 4.5 was successful but I had to set the LCC to medium in the Bios to pass the Aida stress test, the built in Amd Overdrive stress test and the 3D Mark stress test. The most important thing was that Overdrive added some voltage to the NB to make things work, on the contrary all the tutorials I've found online said that you don't need to touch the NB if you OC just the Cpu on the Kaveri. I might push it a little further, but I don't know if I'll gain anything from 4.5 to for example 4.7. I've tested in CSGO, the fps gain from 4.2 to 4.5 was 10 fps, because I'm Cpu bottlenecked. I don't if the gain will be that great if I push things further. When on stress test for 2-3 hours the thermal margin was at 25c, (correct me if I'm wrong) that would be 55c on the cpu? (As I've said earlier, non of the MB sensors when in Windows report correctly, the work just in the Bios) The MB temps were 31-34.

Sent from my K00G using Tapatalk


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## Himo5

I wonder if the Gigabyte FM2+ BIOS was affected by the Godavari update in the same way as ASUS boards were. Still, at least if you're going back and forth between F5 and F7 you have G's Dual BIOS as a safeguard against a BIOS flash going wrong.

As far as putting extra cooling over the VRM heatsink is concerned the motherboard design is probably going to defeat you. The D3H simply wasn't designed for 4600+ overclocking with the 50k and maybe not even with its Godavari successors, the 70k and the 90k either.

I don't think increasing VDDNB is going to do much for you. You could try increasing your medium LCC settings a little but your best performance increase will come from overclocking your video card and, in addition, even though it only means about a 104% potential for improvement in CPU intensive ops, getting Ram to 2400MHz can help as well.

The breakdown voltage for Kaveri is given as about 1.49V but you so often find them operating above this even with default settings that it seems misleading. This thread in the AMD Community pages gives as good advice on the matter as any.


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## dzivana

First to reply to Himo5 and than the update.
As I've mentioned earlier I don't use the iGPU anymore, I already have 2400 HyperX but I've bought a discrete GPU and my CPU is the bottleneck and for that reason I wanted to OC, at list a bit until I buy a new MB.

And now for the update. I've managed to hit a dead-end









Now with this BIOS and reasonable voltages the CPU is passing all the tests @4.7 but I've dialed down a bit to 4.5 just to be on the safe side.
But the problem is the following. All the stress tests I've found I've run them for hours and hours, they all pass, while the thermal margin is at 25ish C. I've also put parallel test for example Aida stress test for the RAM and disks, Unigine Valley for GPU, and Amd OD for the CPU, they run for multiple hours and hours without problem, but when i let the PC *idle* for a bit it freezes and I must do a hard reset. It freezes sometimes after 10 min, sometimes after 10 sec, or and hour. Played with all the LLC settings and XMP profiles. Same...
I've done some research and I've found this:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/294119-troubleshooting-instability-at-idle-while-overclocking-with-adaptive-voltage/

I don't know if this article is relevant to my OC, maybe not because i'm (probably) not using adaptive voltage as far as I know and even if I did there isn't a setting in my MB BIOS for that to be adjusted, or maybe it has... who knows









Also I've found out that when I disable all the power saving things in the bios (except for Quiet and Cool which for ever reason when it is disabled it won't let all the cores run at max speed) and lock it down to 4Ghz it does the same (freezes).

Anyway I'm really can't think straight anymore and I'm ready to throw in the towel (the MB and CPU also) and to just go buy a new one, but if someone has a solution or suggestion it would be great to hear.
Thanks
Sorry for the long post.

Edit: For now I'm blaming the buggy BIOS for letting me OC at high speeds and last for hours, but when the cpu usage drops to 0 the freezing occurs, but I might be wrong.


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## gapottberg

Try this...

Dial everything back to 4.5 or 4.4 settings. Start by adding a little viltage to your Ram. Up to 0.05v-0.10v will usually be very safe on most moduals.

Then reset if it doesnt work and try adding small amounts of voltage to the CPU-NB, see if that helps.

Then reset and if you jave the option give your NB voltage a bump or two.

If none of those work try combining bumps to two or more of these 3 things at the same time.


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## dzivana

Allrighty than...









I don't know where to begin, the post might be without order but anyway,,

I've experienced very confusing things while doing this, if something is wrong with my BIOS or MB or me or whatever let me know.
First of all i'll start from the end, if was so mad of playing around i've OC'd the CPU to 5Ghz and let a loop run with prime for CPU, valley for GPU and Aida for RAM and HDD's. It looped for 12 hours without any problems. The Vcore was ~1.52V while 20 C from thermal margin. I've used the XMP profile 2 2133 for the RAM as without any OC it wasn't stable at 2400 previously, the room was a sauna from the heat produced but the point is that it passed all the tests. Also I've bumped the NBVid to +0.120. But at any overclock I encounter the same thing, no matter what I do. When I let it idle for some time, it freezes, sometimes after 10 sec sometimes after 2 hours or so. Now I've also played with all possible combinations, I've put it down all the way to 4, played with the CPU, NB and RAM voltages, from min to reasonable max, i tried every possible thing and combination as gapottberg suggested, I've tried with LLC from Auto to extreme for the CPU and NB and default RAM profile (+variations of extra voltage) also and no luck, and the Igpu is disabled.
The strange thing also is (as suggested by many) disabled the following, turbo clock, auto clock boost, c6, *cool & quiet*, apm, svn and so on and same thing.
(also played with all the combinations of these)
Here comes the interesting part, I've bolded cool & quiet because when It is disabled the first two theads OC to whatever I set them to but the third and forth stay to multiplier x17 (1.7Ghz) when i enable C&C they go to for example 4.0 if set to x40 but when I stress them the whole cpu goes to ~3 Ghz. The only workaround to this is to disable C&C and than if i do that 3rd and 4th jump from x17 to x40 back and forth and than when I unplug the cpu fan (the fans on my radiator) and to connect it to my fan controller and then set with AMD Overdrive with the little green button on the top to keep the cores at max freq set by the BIOS and the multiplier stays up!
I don't OC with AMD Overdrive because I've noticed that the settings for NBVid don't stick.
Any thoughts or should I throw the whole thing and go buy a new CPU, MB and RAM, I need this OC because for example on stock settings 3.7 + 4.0 turbo, on CS GO benchmark the average is 60 FPS! but when on let's say 4.4 it's 140! The source engine is very CPU bound and as I've said before I have a dedicated GPU. It's a huge bottleneck so at least I want it make it stable at 4Ghz, but as things are right now even that is not going to happen.
The point is it runs *fine* when on load for days (no matter how crazy is the OC for this MB) and everything is fine but when I let it loose and let it *idle* it just a matter of time when
*it will freeze*.


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## 7850K

Have you reset BIOS with the cmos battery yet? I think the big issue here may just be Gigabyte BIOS. I have experienced strange things that only a cmos reset would seem to fix.
Last resort would be to reinstall OS.

I am a bit baffled you were able to run prime at 5Ghz with only 1.52v. What are your CS:GO frames at that clock?


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## dzivana

I have no more nails from removing the battery, I know use a screwdriver







I've used another OS from another drive I used before on that machine, same. The CPUvid was set to 1.55 but the core power both on load and idle stayed at 1.52. I'm baffled to, It's really strange, I can torture the PC for hours and no problems and than when on idle it just trips over itself.
On CS:GO as i've said on stock CPU settigs the fps are a disaster (60). From 4.0 (OC) to 4.5 It goes from 100 to 150, For every 100 Mhz around 10 FPS, and from that point to 5Ghz roughly 5-6 for every 100mhz and @ 5 it's 176 on Mr. Ulletical's Cs Go Fps Benchmark with all the settings cranked up, motion blur fxaa and v-sync disabled and x2 MSAA @1080p that is. I don't care about going more than 60 on all games as I have 60Hz monitor and I use V-sync, but Cs Go is a different story, it really matters a lot... input lag and so on, basically you know, the more the have on cs the better the experience. But on half of my games the frame times are terrible because of the bottleneck.


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## 7850K

found a couple of threads on this issue that may be of help
http://www.overclock.net/t/1327717/windows-7-64bit-freezes-when-idle
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/pc-hang-freeze-when-idling.2318437/


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## dzivana

I've read this, I'm still thinkering around, Thanks for the links. Totally off-topic.. Just for illustration, I've put CSGO with Virtual Super Resolution to 4K and the same settings, the FPS on the benchmark and in game stays the same as on 1080p







I was expecting to be bottlenecked but not on this level...

And while I'm here, I've read that vrm symptoms of overheating is reducing the clock automatically, but can it cause problems like mine because I've disabled all cpu power management features? On the other hand I suppose they are heating up the most when on full load...

Also to be on the safe side can I just leave the RAM at 1.65V, it's rated max voltage for xmp profile 1 (2400mhz) and use it on xmp 2 (2133) or is it too much.


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## Feimitsu

My ram is totally stable at 1.4V and it runs at 2400MHz. So that could be undervolted too


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## dzivana

I've left it @ 1.65, just for good measure, I don't care if it goes kaboom







I will buy a new MB, CPU, RAM for the reasons I've stated above but I don't know if I can (or should) wait for Zen or to just go and buy 6600k.... As for my OC it still work in progress but I've managed to make it somewhat stable (1 reboot per 24 hrs







) but more on that later.


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## drmrlordx

1.65v for DDR3 is nothing, I run mine at 1.7v and have done so for over a year. And it's no threat to the Kaveri memory controller, either.

As for a 6600k . . . yech! Hold out for Raven Ridge, or at least see what Bristol Ridge has to offer. If they improved the l2 it might be worth a look.


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## dzivana

Sorry for Off-Topic...In USA and most of EU new items arrive quickly after launch, but here in the Balkans we are a black sheep... If Zen comes out let's say in Jan, we will receive it May-Jun and for a couple months the price will be pumped up. So I made my mind and I didn't want to wait for half a year and I've purchased 6600k with Gigabyte Z170x G1 Ultra Gaming MB. I've sold the CPU (7850k) along with the MB and RAM, A friend of mine made a discount for the new parts and I've sold the old ones for 190 EUR with that I added 200 Eur and if you ask me it was a good deal (again the prices here are stupid) and the price of 390 Eur total is with a big discount, regular price for that is 470 Eur.

On-Topic... As much as I've tried to OC the CPU (and got to fairly stable 4.6) it wasn't a match for the GPU in any way. The bottleneck was ridiculous. Honestly I didn't expect that much of a difference. On boot-up, launching programs and so on there isn't much of a difference from the overclocked Kaveri to the 6600k, but on games it went to let's say NFS 16 from 35-45 FPS with big dips to 24, to 70+ constant with everything maxed up, as for CS GO on the benchmark I've mentioned before the FPS jumped from 170 Avg to 400









As for the MB, I liked the EZ OC noob button, it just asked me what CPU @ what clock, and it locked the multiplier at 44, with c states on and dynamic voltage, The LLC and voltage was calibrated automatically, but no doubt I'll thinker with it later on, for now I just want to work/play.

Anyway Thanks guys for the support and your time, I've learned a bit from this experience and I'll gladly help to someone if I can


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## drmrlordx

Oh sorry, thought you meant an old A10-6600k, not the Skylake chip. Never mind!


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## dzivana

It was my bad for not making it clear. I thought it was logical that I was talking about the i5 not the 6600 Amd, to be honest I forgot that the A10 6600 existed.


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## W35l3y

I think the topic is very big and already lost in its objective, I suggest that we put our forms of overclocking in the 7850k after all the tests and exchanges of knowledge of the hundreds of pages of this topic.
i did 1.5v on the vcore with te asus a88x pro, multiplier 45*100 to get 4.5ghz, it is my limit, memory is at 2400mhz at 10/12/10/32 with 1.9v, it was 1333 9/9/9 1.5v, it is working for 6 months, here is the link on the hwbot:
http://hwbot.org/submission/3439177_wesley.sidney_cpu_frequency_a10_7850k_4500_mhz
sometimes it shutdown and i am sure thet it is not becouse the temperature,
so i hope someone do more stable.


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## Assassin66

Which AMD Kaveri APU are you all using? I am currently using the A8 7600, which I have now combined with a Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX560 4Gb Graphics Card and 8Gb of DDR3 1600mhz RAM. This has the A8 7600 currently running at around 3692.52Mhz Validated on CPU-Z Validator, but I am hoping to get the CPU part of the APU running closer to 3.8Ghz or even 4Ghz if possible. I am using an ASRock FM2A88M Extreme4+ FM2+ MicroATX motherboard for this system, and have read that it should be a decent motherboard for overclocking. However, I am using the stock cooler, as I am planning to upgrade to an X4 880k CPU soon. To be honest, would you advise me to upgrade to X4 880k or stick with the A8 7600? I know the X4 880k will overclock no problem, but need a bigger hard drive, so might put off the upgrade (apart from a better cooler) for a few months.


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## gapottberg

I will have my sons A10-7850k again soon for about a week to do some maintence on it. I recently aquired a R7-7770 Graphics card which should be a minor upgrade over using the APU integrated graphics cores.

I am hoping to OC the processor to about 4.0ghz as well and see if the auto-downclocking to 3.0ghz persists. My understanding is the throttling is due to power draw limitations when running the iGPU and CPU simultaneously, and AMD implemented the 3.0ghz max clock speed in CPU cores when the iGPU cores are maxed to keep it in check.

I am aware there is a BIOS hack to remove this...but I am also aware that running a descrete graphics card should fo the same, as it should eliminate the load on the iGPU and therefore allow the CPU to clock above 3.0ghz like is is able to do in most non graphically intense workloads.

I will report my reaults if and when I get a chance to mess with it again. The system in question is mainly at his moms house so I rarely get to tinker with it.

[Edit] @Assassin66 : I highly doubt any gains there are to be made in OCing the X4 880k will be worth the money. If anything spend a little money on better cooling to get a better OC on what you have and maybe look for 16gb kit of ddr3 2133mhz memory or better on the second hand market. While the gains are not huge that is probably more reliable boost to performance than a very similarly specced quad core FX CPU upgrade would be. Esspecially if you can also tune up your CPU/NB, which seems to really help the older FX processors in some workloads.

It is a shame they never made an 8 core variant for the FM2+ socket. It would have been slightly better than the 8 core AM3+ chips if comparisons of the 4 core APUs to the 4 core FXs held true when scaled to 8 cores.


----------



## Zomby Woof

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wrtIAp*
> 
> For those who disable CnQ, could you explain a little bit about what it does? I suspect that my be what's causing my instability.
> With CnQ enabled, the CPU multiplier will go down to x17 when idle, but voltages seem to fluctuate when not on 100% load. (like on x30 multiplier, voltage goes from 0.9-1.11V, I'm guessing that may be what's cauing my crashes sometimes)
> However with it disabled, the CPU stays at x40 multiplier all the time and I definitely do not like that at all.
> Is there any way make voltages stable + downclock on idle? I have AmdMsrTweaker, but the voltages set there just seem to be the upper limit, and will fluctuate below when CnQ enabled.


I'm using a GA-F2A68HM-H MB and I need Cool'n'Quiet "Enabled" to get the CPU's to stay at my x44 multiplier

BIOS version FA installed because on the GIGABYTE website it lists the FA to be used with the A10 7850K. There is a BIOS version FC but its an Update APU AGESA code for Carrizo support.

Not sure what's going on, maybe just a ****ty MB perhaps?


----------



## gapottberg

So yeah, the R7-7700 1GB card was a marked improvement on the APU even when Overclocking the iGPU to just over 1ghz and using 2133mhz ram. Seemed to provide 30-50% more fps in the few benchmarks we ran and it could finally play some of his games like Batman without crashing...albeit on low settings.


----------



## jhip626

ok, so im a total noob to overclocking, I can overclock the 7850k to 4.3 without bumping voltage, which seems to be pretty standard. anything above crashes. is there a noobs guide to overclocking this thing?

this is my mobo
asrock fm2a88m extreme4+
k15 Imc chipset
a88x FCH southbridge 

thanks!


----------



## Himo5

Unfortunately, the Asrock FM2A88m Extreme4+ motherboard has a 4 + 2 phase design with no heatsinks on the VRM array, so you are unlikely to be able to run your A10-7850K beyond 4.5GHz as you can on the more powerful A88X boards.

However, if you can get a good cooling solution for the electronics between the CPU socket and the I/O ports, such as a downdraft aftermarket cooler with a 140mm fan, like the THERMALRIGHT Cogage MST-140, you may be able to get a solid 4.4GHz OC by increasing the APU Load Line Calibration item in the UEFI BIOS OC Tweaker Screen from the Default to a medium setting. This allows you to draw more power under load than allowed by the APU Voltage setting, which may get you over your current 4.3GHz ceiling. But setting this too high may then be too much for your cooler. 

Watch your temperatures and take it a small step at a time. Good luck.


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## Zomby Woof

jhip626 said:


> ok, so im a total noob to overclocking, I can overclock the 7850k to 4.3 without bumping voltage, which seems to be pretty standard. anything above crashes. is there a noobs guide to overclocking this thing?
> 
> this is my mobo
> asrock fm2a88m extreme4+
> k15 Imc chipset
> a88x FCH southbridge
> 
> thanks!


Yes there's a great Kaveri guide on overclock.net, has pictures which might help a newbie.

http://www.overclock.net/forum/10-amd-cpus/1474753-official-kaveri-overclock-guide-progress.html


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## Zomby Woof

I've been testing 4.5 GHz on my HTPC A10-7850K today and am curious if anyone else has run CINEBENCH R15. I just tried it and got a score of 172 multi core which put me just below a i5 3317U which is odd because I should be twice as fast as this processor. Hope someone could chime in on this.


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## BlackArchon

Zomby Woof said:


> I've been testing 4.5 GHz on my HTPC A10-7850K today and am curious if anyone else has run CINEBENCH R15. I just tried it and got a score of 172 multi core which put me just below a i5 3317U which is odd because I should be twice as fast as this processor. Hope someone could chime in on this.


My Athlon X4 880K at default clock speeds (4.0-4.2 GHz) is doing 90 on singlecore and 327 with multicore. I would assume that either your CPU is throttling because of improper cooling, or your mainboard is throttling the CPU because of VRM overheating. Sadly many FM2/FM2+ boards had very weak VRMs which got too hot very quickly.


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## Truckwarrior

I get 302 on mine at stock
Could be a heat thing causing down-clocking.
I have not OC'd by CPU but I did OC my iGPU, saw my best frame-rate at 900, at 960 I got a definite FPS drop
You can run HWmonitor next to cinebench and watch whats happening


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## Solohuman

Still use my A10-7850K on Asus A88X-Plus with 2133 ram as daily general purpose PC. Does everything I need perfectly.. no need to upgrade just for the hell of it. Kinda fun to see an entire PC with hardly anything installed on the motherboard...lol... 
Long live old AMD hardware!


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## Himo5

According to my voltage chart for it you can run the 7850K at 4.2GHz for those CPU Volts. That was tested on Prime95 on an ASUS A88X-Pro after a year of use.


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## Solohuman

Himo5 said:


> According to my voltage chart for it you can run the 7850K at 4.2GHz for those CPU Volts. That was tested on Prime95 on an ASUS A88X-Pro after a year of use.


Did 10 runs IBT on high setting with [email protected] (set bios) & heavily OC RAM. Memtest86 ok for [email protected]
The 3003 bios helps a lot.

My cpu cooler needs upgrading, the one used in that test is Thermaltake NiC4 from 2013 with single 120mm Noctua fan, its a push-pull design but in this case only pushing. Himo5 thanks for linking to that table, most interesting.


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## Himo5

That's a good chip you have there to do 4.4 at 1.36V with an Nic4. The best mine ever did was 5GHz at 1.536V on a single core but I did quite a few benchmarks with it at 4.8Ghz/1.512V on all 4. I doubt if it could do that now, though.


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## Durvelle27

Does this also apply to the Athlon X4 760K


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## Himo5

The X4 760K was the top of the Athlon section of 2013's Richland series of Piledriver chips, which was the previous generation to the Kaveri A10-7850K.
The Athlon range were lower binned APU's with disabled iGpus, so they did not quite have the same overclocking ability as the APU equivalent.
The difference between Piledriver and Steamroller (Kaveri) was that the latter is able to share memory between the iGpu and the CPU whereas Piledriver has to use a seperate bus.
In frequency terms the top Richland APU, the A10-6800K, was the fastest of all the APUs that AMD have produced so far, being easily overclockable on air into the 5.0-5.3GHz range, however, it can't keep up with Steamroller chips running at much lower frequencies, it was rated to run at 4100MHz/1.15V base 4400MHz/1.325V boost.
The X4 760K was rated to run at 3800MHz/1.3V base, 4100MHz/1.35V boost so can't really claim to be a disabled A10-6800K, however, it has a good record of 5GHz+ overclocking, although it's best not to go past 1.5V on the VCore.


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## Solohuman

Himo5 said:


> That's a good chip you have there to do 4.4 at 1.36V with an Nic4. The best mine ever did was 5GHz at 1.536V on a single core but I did quite a few benchmarks with it at 4.8Ghz/1.512V on all 4. I doubt if it could do that now, though.


Thanks, I didn't know this until 3003 bios for my board (Asus A88X plus) its AMD AGESA CarizzoFM2r2PI v1.2.0.2x and then attempted new OC runs.


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