# [Various] Battlefield 3 outrage in Germany



## consume

talk about going overboard...


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## Lazloisdavrock

woahh


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## UNOE

I would be upset too.


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## angrysasquatch

Wow. Awesome! Good on em' for standing up to EA. 90,000 euro loss on Amazon alone, EA has to take notice of that.

And here I thought not buying it cuz it was $60 was sticking it to the man


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## discipline

I read about this. I wonder if steam scans all my computer data. . .


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## hstanford1

This kind of has me worried about EA's policy in the US as well. Are they snooping on what we're doing as well?

Wish I had time to navigate to EULA but I'm on my phone :\


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## Antiwelfare

After scanning through most of the article and what was posted on the main page, I still fail at understanding what is going on. Can someone please break it down for me?


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## james_ant

It should not be legal for a company to force you to accept a TOS that lets them scan your system and other files. I can understand if they want to analyze my DXdiag file or want to see what my specs are but intruding on my files like they did with the tax program is crossing the line.


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## Artikbot

Jesus Christ.

The game in itself isn't bad. Origin is.


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## amtbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *james_ant;15501842*
> It should not be legal for a company to force you to accept a TOS that lets them scan your system and other files. I can understand if they want to analyze my DXdiag file or want to see what my specs are but intruding on my files like they did with the tax program is crossing the line.


Well if what has been reported by these German sites is correct, it may violate US privacy laws. Just because something is in a contract, doesnt mean its legally enforceable or valid.


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## PowerTrip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot;15501844*
> Jesus Christ.
> 
> The game in itself isn't bad. Origin is.


Bingo. I'm glad someone pointed this out before I did. DICE made a great Game. The problem here is EA and their Origin software's "spyware".


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## MAD_J

Germany over reacts to privacy like no other country. I call it Blurmany from the whole google street view fiasco.


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## canoners

I hope EA changes this, it's pretty much killing the game...


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## Razi3l

Good. I hope EA remove that spyware crap, I want my privacy.


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## Spykerv

YES POWER TO THE PEOPLE. Wish US did this. I don't think I'll buy BF3 now till origin fixes whatever garbage it's up to (just to protest), but I never check my finances or keep important documents on my gaming pc so meh.


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## HowHardCanItBe

Could we please watch the language in this thread? Also, this IS news for those questioning it. Now get back on topic.


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## Kleingetier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antiwelfare;15501825*
> After scanning through most of the article and what was posted on the main page, I still fail at understanding what is going on. Can someone please break it down for me?


People in Germany are mad about the Terms of Service of Origin EA is forcing on them with Battlefield 3. EA enables themselves to gather like all the information on the computer and process the data, possibly leading to massive privacy violation. I don't think I have to mention that it's not conform with the law. And German citizens are very serious about their privacy as you may know. That is whats going on in a very shortened form.


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## Thingamajig

I like how the first image is of some tool burning his copy of BF3.

I hate EA, i hate Origin, and BF3 was overhyped. but jesus, if you want to make a point, don't buy the game and THEN burn it -- thats just ******ed. By buying it you've given them what they want, you may as well burn money instead, because thats what you're doing.

While they're at their "protesting" i suggest they also complain about the stupid need to have to use both Origin and a web browser to launch this damn game, which possibly relates with the intrusive Terms and Conditions in some way.

I always felt there was something suspicious about this silliness. Another red card was how allot of antiviruses were reporting Origin as malicious.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canoners;15501960*
> I hope EA changes this, it's pretty much killing the game...


I think alot of us knew Origin/EA would do this. It's what they do best.


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## XAslanX

This is why I am holding out on buying BF3. Until they iron out this origin crap I will not buy the game.


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## GAZ_MAN_432

Overboard a bit?

But I hope they get the message through to EA to change their ToS on Origin









Origin doesn't impress me so far. I've had to go to a separate EA site to add my games as digital to it when there is a similar system already in Origin for it but doesn't work.

Worst thing I have had is that I was missing some Punkbuster Files for Battlefield 3 and I got it to repair the install. It downloads a few files about 15mb and the latest update.
I try to install it and it loops back to the "ready to install" icon

I have to delete the whole BF3 Folder, restart origin, and then download the whole thing.

It kept missing files for one part in the story as well and I had to keep re-downloading.

Sure, it's faster and a bit more responsive than steam but not by much and steam gets the job done properly









I, unlike some people think battlelog is a good thing though, I just like it







(Although that's not the thing they're going against







)


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## homestyle

Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.

Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.

Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


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## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;15502043*
> This is why I am holding out on buying BF3. Until they iron out this origin crap I will not buy the game.


Did I mention that after playing the beta I swapped the BF3 preorder with the Skyrim one? in-browser server manager, origin crap... It made me rethink about the whole game.


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## tino1317

Good for Germany. If the same thing is happening to us citizens I hope a movement starts. That's a huge privacy violation.


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## xquisit

So do I stop making purchases on online websites now that I have Origin and nothing else on my computer besides some needed programs (browser, afterburner, etc.). I though I was care-free having barely anything on my computer, but now that I read this article... I truly believe Origin should be removed, I just want BF3.

Sigh, way to cause paranoia.


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *homestyle;15502084*
> Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.
> 
> Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.
> 
> Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


Sort of what I posted a post or two before you. Internet providers/phone providers/car insurance agency/home insurance agency have a lot more personal information on you than some stinking software that analyzes what you have on your computer. It's hilarious to know people out there are so worried about one and not the other, the latter being what should be an even bigger concern.


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## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *homestyle;15502084*
> Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.
> 
> Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.
> 
> Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


This is like saying "Since there's more bacteria in your hands than the one that's gonna get in if you lick the asphalt, there's no problem if you lick it".


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## 98uk

Hmm... i'm happy without all the hype and mass hysteria. Just playing BF3 ^_^


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## FreekyGTi

hm may not mean much...but i just used that process monitoring program that was shown in the picture...created a filter for Origin and it doesnt show any like that picture does...mine just shows it accessing its own files


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## G. Callen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *homestyle;15502084*
> Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.
> 
> Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.
> 
> Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


This is true and while I agree, I don't trust EA.


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## Pegar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *homestyle;15502084*
> Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.
> 
> Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.
> 
> Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


"Some guy stole my credit card details already so I might as well share them with everyone else"
I can see the logic there.

Not at all bummed out about not having a computer for this game yet. Couple of months for this to sort out even a bit before making a decision if I really want this game or not.


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## fishy_de

Hey, I am actually from Germany and I'd like to inform you, that if you think the Screenshots are fakes there are plenty of YouTube Videos that shows exactly whats going on if you start Origin.exe.
Also, EA claims in their ToS that they have the right to do so, but that doesnt mean that they do it after specific circumstances like "Every morning at XX:XX we'll start the search for XY". With that I mean, you could be save, you could only see in the ProcessMonitor that Origin acts like normal - in its own folder - but you could also see that Origin will look out for Skype, or whatever other Program you might add here.

Hope you understand what I mean with that.

-fishy


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreekyGTi;15502143*
> hm may not mean much...but i just used that process monitoring program that was shown in the picture...created a filter for Origin and it doesnt show any like that picture does...mine just shows it accessing its own files


Lol that's hilarious. I'd love to see a truly well broken down run of what Origin actually scans/monitors.


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## GanjaSMK

Hrm. Maybe I'll boycott BF3 then. Looks like MW3 may get my money since I'm just itchin' for a new shooter. And I really don't want to feed the Actibeastofthedevil.

I wish people in the United States would get this uppity about these kinds of things. Seriously, (not draggin' in politics, just mentioning the state of American outrage) like the occupy movements, these things need to be looked into better here in America.


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## TheOrigin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros;15502262*
> Lol that's hilarious. I'd love to see a truly well broken down run of what Origin actually scans/monitors.


There are actually some vids of this:
There you can see the user starts the installation routine of Origin, canceling it before accepting the EULA. But Origin already scanned different directories - AND the STEAM directory too - remember - before accepting the EULA/ToS!

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUgIibWwGg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUgIibWwGg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUgIibWwGg[/ame[/URL]]


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## SafeKlok

Meanwhile,


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## 98uk

Yea, mean while i'm having awesome fun. Such a great game, really feels like the BF of old (apart from the jets, can't get used to the FOV in them).


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## G. Callen

I am torn. I don't want Origin on my computer, but I want to play BF3... Help!


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## fishy_de

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;15502308*
> Yea, mean while i'm having awesome fun. Such a great game, really feels like the BF of old (apart from the jets, can't get used to the FOV in them).


If your privacy means nothing to you, yes you are having fun. Gratz on that. I already see you crying when some Hackers publish your data.


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## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishy_de;15502350*
> If your privacy means nothing to you, yes you are having fun. Gratz on that. I already see you crying when some Hackers publish your data.


Uh, yes... of course. Well, i'll cross that bridge when it really, undoubtedly comes.

But, seriously, i'm interested to see what happens here. Not because I particularly care about what is happening, more from a PR and marketing perspective.


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## Philistine

So is Origin doing this in the US or is it just Germany?


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## KarmaKiller

http://www.sandboxie.com/
Set this up this morning. Seems to do the trick.. I would recommend to those who don't want your PC scanned, but want to play BF3.


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## GanjaSMK

It needs to be noted, in the video posted, that was the *Origin Setup* file. So if you're opening Origin after it's installed, it won't (maybe at some point it will) reflect the same thing.


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## TheOrigin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Yea, mean while i'm having awesome fun. Such a great game, really feels like the BF of old (apart from the jets, can't get used to the FOV in them).


DONT get me wrong - i would love to play BF3 too! We are all fans of the series - but the cons weight more this time - than the fun we would have for some hours. Its not about BF3 its about Origin and the behaviour of EA!

If we dont do anything this time - publisher will have spyware as standard tool tomorrow in every game.


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## FreekyGTi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOrigin*


There are actually some vids of this: 
There you can see the user starts the installation routine of Origin, canceling it before accepting the EULA. But Origin already scanned different directories - AND the STEAM directory too - remember - before accepting the EULA/ToS!

...snip



whats not to say Steam or any other program does this?

i dont know...all seems very fishy to me to be honest...now im no fan of EA or Origin...but this seems like a witch hunt right before Halloween

now i know we've all seen the weird worded EULA from EA/Origin...but honestly...im sure there are lots of programs that do a quick scan to see whats what in the computer to make sure there arent any conflicts or what not...im just sayin...lets look at this from a non-biased approach

EDIT: you claim this is spyware...but i see nothing going on with the actually use of Origin...seems to be its just accessing its normal files when its needed...its not going out and hunting for information from all programs on the computer

this is what the process monitor shows while Origin is running...the process shown in the screen shot just keep repeating its self


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## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOrigin*


DONT get me wrong - i would love to play BF3 too! We are all fans of the series - but the cons weight more this time - than the fun we would have for some hours. Its not about BF3 its about Origin and the behaviour of EA!

If we dont do anything this time - publisher will have spyware as standard tool tomorrow in every game.


Do you actually know what it is doing with the data? Is it just scanning across files, or taking data from them and reporting it back?

I mean, it's all well and good making claims, but do you actually, really know what is happening here? As someone said, it is the Origin setup file.


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## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KarmaKiller*


http://www.sandboxie.com/
Set this up this morning. Seems to do the trick.. I would recommend to those who don't want your PC scanned, but want to play BF3.










I tried a method of getting this to work, but Origin kept failing with errors when I tried to boot. Perhaps I missed something, but I'm sure I did follow the directions to a t...









Have a link to set it up for use with Origin?


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## fishy_de

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Uh, yes... of course. Well, i'll cross that bridge when it really, undoubtedly comes.

But, seriously, i'm interested to see what happens here. Not because I particularly care about what is happening, more from a PR and marketing perspective.


We are currently in the middle of that bridge. You lost the race if we crossed the bridge.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Philistine*


So is Origin doing this in the US or is it just Germany?


The ToS is worldwide, we dont have (yet) a ToS just for Germany itself. That means you had to agree to the same ToS like we are having trouble with. Sadly the US Gov. doesnt care much about this, but I cant speach much on that since I dont know much about - so I better keep my mouth shut.

-fishy


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## Riou

I respect the Germans for standing up for their rights and laws unlike those in the US and UK.


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## SpartanVXL

Quote:



http://www.sandboxie.com/
Set this up this morning. Seems to do the trick.. I would recommend to those who don't want your PC scanned, but want to play BF3.


Yea I've had that running before when execing files to see what they are doing


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## SafeKlok

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KarmaKiller*


http://www.sandboxie.com/
Set this up this morning. Seems to do the trick.. I would recommend to those who don't want your PC scanned, but want to play BF3.










What about setting up a restricted Windows account?


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## TheOrigin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FreekyGTi*


whats not to say Steam or any other program does this?

i dont know...all seems very fishy to me to be honest...now im no fan of EA or Origin...but this seems like a witch hunt right before Halloween

now i know we've all seen the weird worded EULA from EA/Origin...but honestly...im sure there are lots of programs that do a quick scan to see whats what in the computer to make sure there arent any conflicts or what not...im just sayin...lets look at this from a non-biased approach


Just google for it - there are plenty of vids/pics around - which show i.e how origin sends data into a amazon cloud and stuff .. and even if it doesnt - it has the possibilities. Thats enough to be scared of.

A User reported from a remote session of a EA support employee who was able to remote control the pc of the User via Origin.


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## KarmaKiller

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


I tried a method of getting this to work, but Origin kept failing with errors when I tried to boot. Perhaps I missed something, but I'm sure I did follow the directions to a t...









Have a link to set it up for use with Origin?










I do not have any kind of link. I just kind of went with it. I got a few odd errors, mainly talking about how it needed more space to store the contents of the program. 
I double clicked the message it told me to, and after that it started working.









Make sure you run it as "UAC Admin", I noticed some of the errors went away.


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## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOrigin*


Just google for it - there are plenty of vids/pics around - which show i.e how origin sends data into a amazon cloud and stuff .. and even if it doesnt - it has the possibilities. Thats enough to be scared of.

A User reported from a remote session of a EA support employee who was able to remote control the pc of the User via Origin.


Again, i'm not trying to beat on you, just find out the truth. Do you know what is being reported back? Is it actually extracting data and reporting back? I mean, I suspect during setup most installers scan the HD to look at the file structure... but is this happening constantly? How do you know it has the possibilities?

I'm just trying to say you/we should learn what it is actually doing before speculating. Otherwise, it could be the community who looks silly, not EA.


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## Swiftes

the whole reason i bought this on PS3, i dont like origin, its a mess and ea's morale compass is way out here...


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## KarmaKiller

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SafeKlok*


What about setting up a restricted Windows account?


I don't know.. I personally don't trust a restricted account all the much honestly. It may work, I don't know personally.


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## fishy_de

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Do you actually know what it is doing with the data? Is it just scanning across files, or taking data from them and reporting it back?

I mean, it's all well and good making claims, but do you actually, really know what is happening here? As someone said, it is the Origin setup file.


In the ToS they (EA) say they COULD send that data out (theres even a screenshot where origin contacts a amazon cloud server.) - Not that they would, but they could. And thats already too much, dont you think?


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## Epitope

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


I respect the Germans for standing up for their rights and laws unlike those in the US and UK.










What are you talking about? Plenty of Americans stand up for their rights. I'm a patriotic American who stands up for freedom and...

Gotta go dancing with the stars is on.

/sarcasm


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## TheOrigin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


How do you know it has the possibilities?


Its written in the ToS itself.


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Yea, mean while i'm having awesome fun. Such a great game, really feels like the BF of old (apart from the jets, can't get used to the FOV in them).



Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishy_de*


If your privacy means nothing to you, yes you are having fun. Gratz on that. I already see you crying when some Hackers publish your data.










Having the most fun I've had in PC gaming in years. I'd rather enjoy the amazing game that is BF3 and not worry about Origin scanning to check if I have program X installed on my computer. I don't care if it knows that I have Steam or some other program that has nothing to do with my actual sensitive information. I have nothing to hide. If you're that worried about your personal information, you shouldn't be saving it nor entering it anywhere digitally to begin with. It just makes me laugh that people are so paranoid about it, yet they log into their online banking account as if they're totally secure; they have no concern in the world over THAT do they?









The day my sensitive information is stolen, I report it and have it resolved. Rather easy. I have a family member and a friend whose identities were once stolen and used to open credit card accounts. No big deal, it was resolved within a week and their credit scores were completely unaffected.


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## Kleingetier

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishy_de*


In the ToS they (EA) say they COULD send that data out (theres even a screenshot where origin contacts a amazon cloud server.) - Not that they would, but they could. And thats already too much, dont you think?


http://i44.tinypic.com/2lc8q37.jpg


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## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOrigin*


Its written in the ToS itself.


Has the possibility to do what though? I mean, everything you seem to say thus far is speculation. All we know is that Origin is looking at our HD's and sending something back.

You have no idea what it is sending back, why it is sending it back etc... I mean, we should find out before we start accusing.

You can see how whipped up in hype people on forums like OCN get. They will take a side and run with it without any real reason. Let's find out what it's actually doing, not what it might, could, may do. Then, with all the information, you can finally let loose!


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## G. Callen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Again, i'm not trying to beat on you, just find out the truth. Do you know what is being reported back? Is it actually extracting data and reporting back? I mean, I suspect during setup most installers scan the HD to look at the file structure... but is this happening constantly? How do you know it has the possibilities?

I'm just trying to say you/we should learn what it is actually doing before speculating. Otherwise, it could be the community who looks silly, not EA.


I must say that you're a very wise individual.


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## lordikon

Ugh, so many things are tempting me to get the console version instead, and maybe get the PC version later when I get a 7xxx series GPU and hopefully this Origin crap is ironed out, and maybe the price will have dropped.


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## ZainyAntics

I never understood why people give a damn about them scanning stuff... some people are just so anal about things, I have nothing to hide on my PC so why should I care.


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## fishy_de

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*


Having the most fun I've had in PC gaming in years. I'd rather enjoy the amazing game that is BF3 and not worry about Origin scanning to check if I have program X installed on my computer. I don't care if it knows that I have Steam or some other program that has nothing to do with my actual sensitive information. I have nothing to hide. If you're that worried about your personal information, you shouldn't be saving it nor entering it anywhere digitally to begin with. It just makes me laugh that people are so paranoid about it, yet they log into their online banking account as if they're totally secure; they have not concern in the world over THAT do they?

The day my sensitive information is stolen, I report it and have it resolved. Rather easy. I have a family member and a friend whose identities were once stolen and used to open credit card accounts. No big deal, it was resolved within a week and their credit scores were completely unaffected.


Yea, I already heard about the "fact" that if someone says that he has nothing to hide. Well, everyone has something in the basement I gotta tell you.
And also if you have nothing to hide that tells me that you simply dont care. Well, see you in China if you behave like this. Lets see if you dont care about in the future.

This is actually the screenshot I am talking about (contact amazon cloud servers):
http://i44.tinypic.com/2lc8q37.jpg

-fishy


----------



## Emmanuel

And I find it funny that people like you allow their freedoms to be chipped away because they have nothing to hide... Just like at the airports, "grope my privates, I have nothing to hide"...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*


Having the most fun I've had in PC gaming in years. I'd rather enjoy the amazing game that is BF3 and not worry about Origin scanning to check if I have program X installed on my computer. I don't care if it knows that I have Steam or some other program that has nothing to do with my actual sensitive information. I have nothing to hide. If you're that worried about your personal information, you shouldn't be saving it nor entering it anywhere digitally to begin with. It just makes me laugh that people are so paranoid about it, yet they log into their online banking account as if they're totally secure; they have no concern in the world over THAT do they?









The day my sensitive information is stolen, I report it and have it resolved. Rather easy. I have a family member and a friend whose identities were once stolen and used to open credit card accounts. No big deal, it was resolved within a week and their credit scores were completely unaffected.


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## DirectOverkill

have 2 computers. one for games and one for vital data.problem solved


----------



## alexmaia_br

I will never install origin on my rig, that's a fact.
Since I don't care about bf3, no losses.


----------



## SpartanVXL

Quote:



have 2 computers. one for games and one for vital data.problem solved


Or two HDD/partitions and BIOS disable the sensitive one


----------



## Pegar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics*


I never understood why people give a damn about them scanning stuff... some people are just so anal about things, I have nothing to hide on my PC so why should I care.


Maybe you don't and you shouldn't. But does that mean no one should care? No.

Maybe I should care and "be anal" if, for example:
- I have some legal/medical/financial/work/whatever documents and "personal photos" as things I <DO_NOT _WANT.jpg> to share with some random EA employee.

- I also use the computer for work and it has legal/medical/financial/work/whatever documents of SOMEONE ELSE. Documents that maybe even I shouldn't have access to, if it wasn't for the circumstances. Makes the situation even worse.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Emmanuel*


And I find it funny that people like you allow their freedoms to be chipped away because they have nothing to hide... Just like at the airports, "grope my privates, I have nothing to hide"...


Also this.


----------



## xPwn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MAD_J*


Germany over reacts to privacy like no other country. I call it Blurmany from the whole google street view fiasco.


No, they don't. Pirate a song= 50$ Fine. Pirate a song in US= Jail + 1,000$ Fine.
Ignorance these days.


----------



## mountains

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xPwn*


No, they don't. Pirate a song= 50$ Fine. Pirate a song in US= Jail + 1,000$ Fine.
Ignorance these days.


What he said is mostly true. Just look at the iPhone tracking scandal. DMCA violations have very little to do with privacy, and a lot more to do with intellectual property.


----------



## tianhui

Quote:



Originally Posted by *XAslanX*


This is why I am holding out on buying BF3. Until they iron out this origin crap I will not buy the game.


^this.

I don't see them fired up about steam in the same way.

Kudos to DICE for making a sweet game.
Middle finger to EA for ruining it with their spyware.
Seriously... scanning your tax documents- that's low, EA... real low.

Glad i held off i pre-ordering. Will wait- Game's not going anywhere.


----------



## tianhui

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOrigin*


There are actually some vids of this: 
There you can see the user starts the installation routine of Origin, canceling it before accepting the EULA. But Origin already scanned different directories - AND the STEAM directory too - remember - before accepting the EULA/ToS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUgIibWwGg


^ This is messed up. It is lol.

EDIT: Sorry for double post- merge posts please o_o


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics*


I never understood why people give a damn about them scanning stuff... some people are just so anal about things, I have nothing to hide on my PC so why should I care.


You don't shop online at all? No personally identifiable information on your computer at all? I find that hard to believe.


----------



## thegreatsquare

Quote:



"The Devil is in the contract details"
The first is a article of the German gaming magazine GameStar on their website. They hired a professional lawyer to analyze the ToS of EAs Origin and the result was devastating. 
EA enables themselves to gather like all the information on the computer and process the data, possibly leading to massive privacy violation.

German Source // Translated Source

"Origin analyzed my tax program!"
On the Amazon forums the Origin program caused a massive outcry. People used Process Monitor to scan Origins behaviour and posted pictures of the program accessing files of their tax management program (Picture/Video) and their cell phone manager (Picture).


This brings to mind a similar issue. The person installing the software may only be the son/daughter and so they may only be a secondary user of the PC in a house. The actual owner may not agreed to the EULA terms and may have a case against EA for invasion of privacy.


----------



## Junkboy

OMG!!!!!!!!!! I just thought of something, what if they get so pissed they stop all German chocolate exports to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EA better fix this and fix it quick!!!!!!!!!!! >.> <.< >.>

*note for those of you who have never had German chocolate, I feel sorry for you and your empty lives*


----------



## Squirrel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics*


I never understood why people give a damn about them scanning stuff... some people are just so anal about things,* I have nothing to hide on my PC so why should I care*.










I would've thought that this lame argument has received so many explanations over the years that everyone would know by now how stupid it is.


----------



## murderbymodem

Steam does the same thing. It tells Valve all of the programs you have installed on your computer. The last time I did a system survey I noticed it, and I still sent the survey anyway because I really don't mind telling them.

Maybe this is a big deal to some other people (as mentioned in the article or earlier in the thread, someone who has tax information) but I could care less if they scan my computer. My computer is only used for games and school work. I could care less if they know what games I play, what the topic of my COM-101 essay is, (or what kind of pr0n I watch).


----------



## Don Karnage

I don't care what EA looks at on my computer. Hope it likes seeing my nudes


----------



## PureBlackFire

EA does not need an army of apologists. I made up my mind during the beta that I wouldn't touch BF3 until it comes to steam. Origin sucks badly (spyware aside) and people just accept/excuse it all because they're caught on the "we hate CoD hype train". Battle log is also quite horrible. It may come at no additional charge, but they neglected to mention that we would have zero choice in the matter. EA has turned popular opinion against their competitor and now think they can do whatever they want. I was dead right a few months back when I told my brother that EA would do all it can to ruin BF3.


----------



## FLCLimax

i'll buy it when it ocmes to STEAM.

*inb4steamhaters*


----------



## thegreatsquare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Junkboy*


OMG!!!!!!!!!! I just thought of something, what if they get so pissed they stop all German chocolate exports to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You should delete that before frickfrock sees it and worries unnecessarily.


----------



## Intelship

Stupid EA, Dice should just switch over to Activision. Oh wait...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


I don't care what EA looks at on my computer. Hope it likes seeing my nudes


Selfishness. So only people with important/personal information should be angry about this?


----------



## MaxFTW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Steam does the same thing. It tells Valve all of the programs you have installed on your computer.


Yeah it knows what programs you have thats about it, But it dont look at your tax documents or that.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lordikon*


Selfishness. So only people with important/personal information should be angry about this?


This website is full of immature kids that don't understand a lot of things. People with a good head of their shoulders should know how serious this potentially could be.


----------



## solt

http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/11...n-spyware.html


----------



## gooface

steam does the same thing, it scans hardware, and installed programs:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

shows that ÂµTorrent is on 29% of PCs

protest all the companies!!

now its all of the sudden evil because EA does it!! BURN EA TO THE GROUND!!! but steam can do it, LONG LIVE VALVE!! THEY ARENT SPYING ON US!!


----------



## RotaryKnight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


This website is full of immature kids that don't understand a lot of things. People with a good head of their shoulders should know how serious this potentially could be.


but hey, its america right.
As long as I get what I once, I dont care about privacy.
/sarcasm

People with a good head on their own shoulders are few far and near.

If BF3 ever comes to steam, or somebody makes a crack to run BF3 without Origin, I will jump to it automatically. I will BUY the game again just to have it on steam. Thats how much I hate Origin. And yes, I know steam scans my PC.


----------



## GanjaSMK

I just uninstalled Origin. I'm boycotting. I had no idea how intrusive it was.







I'm ashamed I didn't inform myself before installing it, or reading the fine-print in the EULA. No BF3 for me.


----------



## hammertime850

this is very scary, It sucks that my enjoyment in bf3 outweighs my fear for my invasion of privacy. This is what I think is the big problem.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:



Originally Posted by *G. Callen*


I am torn. I don't want Origin on my computer, but I want to play BF3... Help!










PS3 version


----------



## mr. biggums

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


steam does the same thing, it scans hardware, and installed programs:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

shows that ÂµTorrent is on 29% of PCs

protest all the companies!!

now its all of the sudden evil because EA does it!! BURN EA TO THE GROUND!!! but steam can do it, LONG LIVE VALVE!! THEY ARENT SPYING ON US!!


Steam let's you choose you can either opt out of the scan or go for it, origin currently does not have this option.


----------



## hammertime850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*


PS3 version


I have no console







lol. and I want 64 player servers.


----------



## GanjaSMK

*Steam also doesn't check your scan personal folders*, whereas Origin does.


----------



## UbNub

If all my secure files were on Linux would it scan those too? Or would it not be able to gain access? I reall do hate that they do this to us. If I decline the TOS am I able to return a product?


----------



## YouWin

not buying another ea game ever xD

vote with your wallet people!


----------



## TheOrigin

We really appriciate that you become aware of the problem and we really hope that we can change the way publisher think of the gaming community.

We want games that are worth their prize.
We want games which are finished at release.
We want customer support and service which is not a email bot.
And wie want developers who create games which have a soul again - no mass production trash every half year.

Thats what we fight for.

Thx for reading.


----------



## MASSKILLA

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Antiwelfare*


After scanning through most of the article and what was posted on the main page, I still fail at understanding what is going on. Can someone please break it down for me?


The program Origin is scanning users computers saving data


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Junkboy*


OMG!!!!!!!!!! I just thought of something, what if they get so pissed they stop all German chocolate exports to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EA better fix this and fix it quick!!!!!!!!!!! >.> <.< >.>

*note for those of you who have never had German chocolate, I feel sorry for you and your empty lives*










Don't forget German Beer much better than the piss they sell Stateside.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


show me one incident that EA has screwed over someones life.


Bye-O-Ware comes to mind...


----------



## BeerPowered

For those not concerned about it because they could care less about BF3, what about Mass Effect 3? What about Dragon Age 3? What about (Insert EA game here)


----------



## Xristo

Gee thats really a cool story and all , but the game is simply amazing .. im enjoying every bit of it .

These germans have issues .


----------



## guyladouche

No one is forcing people to buy/play the game. Don't like it? Speak with your wallet and don't buy it--a tactic that seemed to have worked well recently with...I don't recall which game it was.


----------



## lunan1t4

And you truly wonder why pirates who (most likely) do not have Origin in their computer but playing a (most likely single player) game are more secured in their privacy compared to the crap that EA feeds all of us with their Origin?

And they still question why the pirating rate keep climbing, while shoving a dozer (tribute to AMD) through their legitimate customer ass?

I can see antivirus screen my directories and files, i can understand that antivirus upload questionable files to increase detection. WHAT is the purpose of Origin scan and upload? In Steam, it's OPT.


----------



## razaice

I'll probably keep playing bf3 but I'll be watching this news very carefully now.


----------



## hitman1985

and this is how its done







vielen dank







.


----------



## gooface

my point is, many services we use (Email, ISP, Steam, google, facebook, the list goes on) know tons about us, google knows tons about each and every one of us (through gmail, and google, youtube), and what have they done with all this information, the worst that they will do is sell it to someone and they will spam your mail/email/phone. more than that they cant legally do.

heck, your employer will stalk your facebook/twitter/blog if you have one, they pay people to do this.


----------



## girugamesh

Germans, I am proud.


----------



## djriful

I am against Origin as well. I rather just leave Battlelog + BF3 = perfect. Adding a Spy (Origin) into the circle is just wrong.

It's like a friend spying you at your house windows while you are having fun with your friend.


----------



## crashdummy35

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


*Heck, your employer will stalk your facebook/twitter/blog if you have one, they pay people to do this.*










<-- Employer: Hmmm, crash has a strange fetish for muppet pron..?

Wasn't there a court case pending/going down for this? I sort of lost track of that story a while back. I think someone got fired for being a complete psycho at parties while drunk.


----------



## Shichibukai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FreekyGTi*


this is what the process monitor shows while Origin is running...the process shown in the screen shot just keep repeating its self











Have you looked at what it does in the first few seconds after it starts up? Scroll up a bit


----------



## ilam3d

It has been common knowledge to tech oriented users that Origin has been acting as spyware SINCE the alpha.

I even remember one user making a big thread here in OCN about why he will not get BF3.. The reason turned out to be this.


----------



## PhRe4k

Good thing I got BF3 for PS3


----------



## gbatemper

Ahahaha, now I have something to finally make my BF3 obsessed friend to Shut up.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


my point is, many services we use (Email, ISP, Steam, google, facebook, the list goes on) know tons about us, google knows tons about each and every one of us (through gmail, and google, youtube), and what have they done with all this information, the worst that they will do is sell it to someone and they will spam your mail/email/phone. more than that they cant legally do.

heck, your employer will stalk your facebook/twitter/blog if you have one, they pay people to do this.


My ISP, Google, Steam, and Facebook (I don't have a 'facebook'







, don't scan your computer to see what is installed, what documents are there and what registry settings have been made.

Seriously, *listen* - We're all aware of web and ad tracking, using our credit cards online, participating in mobile banking via our smart phones, Facebooking that we're on vacation for a week (Drop on by criminals and theives, we aren't home!), and yet while we do give up personal privacy in some sense - *we aren't giving up our computer's to be scanned blatantly for no known reason*.

Figure out a better argument.


----------



## sausageson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*


Good thing I got BF3 for PS3










An inferior experience in every way though


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Emmanuel*


And I find it funny that people like you allow their freedoms to be chipped away because they have nothing to hide... Just like at the airports, "grope my privates, I have nothing to hide"...


Yup. I'm "letting my freedom get chipped away" becauseI don't mind ghat Origin does a virtually harmless scan of a few random programs on my hard drive.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Please watch the swearing in this thread.This is your only warning.


----------



## BizzareRide

More senationlist alarmism... If you're using the internet, then you don't care too much about privacy PERIOD!

If you send/receive data over any kind of wireless connection, you don't care about privacy enough to rage against the machines.

If you've ever used US postal services to send/receive letters, then you don't care about privacy enough.

Seriously... The moment you set foot on PUBLIC streets, you lose a lot of your privacy.

No one is forcing you to use anything so until they are, I'm really tired of seeing this junk being strew about this forum.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sausageson*


An inferior experience in every way though


Inferior experience is better than no experience.. I no longer have my sig rig







Plus I don't have to use Origin so I don't mind at all


----------



## Ryleh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *discipline*


I read about this. I wonder if steam scans all my computer data. . .


It knows every program you use.

It could also easily 'trick' any user to allow it to have even more control because with every game you download you have to click through probably a 1/2 dozen separate installs.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*


More senationlist alarmism... If you're using the internet, then you don't care too much about privacy PERIOD!


Ok, BizzareRide, will you please reply with the following complete information:

1. Complete medical records;

2. Financial records;

3. Fiscal records;

4. Property records;

5. Adress, phone number, e-mail accounts, Facebook user id, all other social networks you're registered into, along with all the forums;

6. Pictures from your childhood and from now from different angles so you can be easily identified, along with photos from your family and friends;

I hope that is ok with you given that you are on the internet and have therefore given up on your privacy rights, right ?


----------



## GanjaSMK

What is it that you people are _missing_? What point hasn't been made that this is not only _potentially_ but very substantially going to affect future efforts to invade your computer privacy - of which may well endow your future being as an individual, father, mother, grandparent?

If EA, a leading video game development and publishing company, can get away with it - what makes you think that Microsoft, Apple, Symantec, and Adobe wouldn't jump on the bandwagon with proof of concept?

You do realize that your world is not digitized yet. Parts of it are, but not completely. That _will change_ - and soon. It's _already_ happening. Medical files, health records, voting records, consumer receipts, and on and on - will all be fully digitized at some point. This is no conspiracy either - it just is - *what it will be*.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

I'll remind everyone again, no political remarks or references. Please keep it in line with the TOS.


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


What is it that you people are _missing_? What point hasn't been made that this is not only _potentially_ but very substantially going to affect future efforts to invade your computer privacy - of which man well endow your future being as an individual, father, mother, grandparent?

If EA, a leading video game development and publishing company, can get away with it - what makes you think that Microsoft, Apple, Symantec, and Adobe wouldn't jump on the bandwagon with proof of concept?

You do realize that your world is not digitized yet. Parts of it are, but not completely. That _will change_ - and soon. It's _already_ happening. Medical files, health records, voting records, consumer receipts, and on and on - will all be fully digitized at some point. This is no conspiracy either - it just is - *what it will be*.


what will they do with all this information? please tell me?


----------



## Birdy1337

Good thing I deleted Origin AFTER the Beta -_-


----------



## BizzareRide

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tpi2007*


Ok, BizzareRide, will you please reply with the following:

1. Complete medical records;

2. Financial records;

3. Fiscal records;

4. Property records;

5. Adress, phone number, e-mail accounts, facebook user id, all other social networks you're registered into, along with all the forums;

6. Pictures from your childhood, from now form different angles so you can be easily identified, photos from your family and friends;

I hope that is ok with you given that you are on the internet have therefore given up on your rights, right ?


You're not offering me any services... Basically you have no authority.


----------



## Danker16

EA does what they want because we let them. simple as that. They would be forced to change their EULA if the US population was against it just as Germany is


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


This website is full of immature kids that don't understand a lot of things. People with a good head of their shoulders should know how serious this potentially could be.


So im immature because I made a joke instead of rageing like everyone else? I honestly don't care. Ea looks at files on my computer? Oh well


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


what will they do with all this information? please tell me?


Does it matter? Not at all. They shouldn't be accessing the information in the first place.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


So im immature because I made a joke instead of rageing like everyone else? I honestly don't care. Ea looks at files on my computer? Oh well


You don't care that your privacy is invaded? Cool. Some of us do care though.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*


You're not offering me any services...


Sensastionalism is great isn't it?


----------



## talios

The part about it accessing specific files within programs is disturbing. That's out of the realm of general anonymous data collection of hardware and installed software.

Now on my do not buy list. :-/


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


what will they do with all this information? please tell me?


Ask yourself what information is used for. Then proceed to ponder the possibilities in using the information.

I would make a fabulous analogy but it will walk the fence on ToS, so I best not.

Please enlighten your narrow observation of what is possible here. Up front - it's a privacy issue - philosophically, *much more*.


----------



## langer1972

Quote:



Originally Posted by *talios*


The part about it accessing specific files within programs is disturbing. That's out of the realm of general anonymous data collection of hardware and installed software.

Now on my do not buy list. :-/


I so agree this is something that may change my mind on buying the game.


----------



## hollowtek

Haha.. Way to go Origin.









Spyware reports data back to EA servers. Notices you have COD installed. Somehow COD and its traces are completely gone from your PC....??? Profit.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


So im immature because I made a joke instead of rageing like everyone else? I honestly don't care. Ea looks at files on my computer? Oh well


Can I have your personal information too since you don't mind? I promise I won't do anything bad. Holla back.


----------



## Foxrun

dmmit I already bought and love the game


----------



## gooface

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foxrun;15504080*
> dmmit I already bought and love the game


better stop playing it, its going to screw up your future.


----------



## Kosire

Keep fighting guys!


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface;15504106*
> better stop playing it, its going to screw up your future.


It's amazing how little you grasp in this. Simply astonishing.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discipline;15501808*
> I read about this. I wonder if steam scans all my computer data. . .


Load up process monitor and check. Download wireshark and double check on the connection.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizzareRide;15503994*
> You're not offering me any services... Basically you have no authority.


Sure I'm not, but your main argument is fundamentally flawed. Neither is Origin offering you any fiscal services, yet the program scans people's tax programs' folders.

Are you willing to trade your money AND fiscal information for a game just because you are on the Internet ?

Is Origin offering you any services before you accept the EULA ? No, but it already scanned your folders.


----------



## gerickjohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot;15501844*
> Jesus Christ.
> 
> The game in itself isn't bad. Origin is.


Yeah.. and Battlelog too.. -.-


----------



## Razi3l

What I find most pathetic is that those who don't care about Origin invading this privacy are flaming those who do and calling them crazy, and Nazi's and all the rest of it. Grow up, if somebody wants to care about something let them. If you don't care about your privacy then how about you let the cops strip you and you go everywhere naked all the time, hows that? We're sure you have "nothing to hide".


----------



## calavera

man, I don't think Germany is overreacting at all. This is upsetting. The game itself is freaking awesome. Wish I could get rid of origin and battlelog though.


----------



## Malcolm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amtbr;15501907*
> Well if what has been reported by these German sites is correct, it may violate US privacy laws. Just because something is in a contract, doesnt mean its legally enforceable or valid.


THIS IS TRUE.

Also why EULAs mean nothing. Any company can throw together a list of ways they'd like you to use their product (even thought it's actually your product because you gave them money for it) but that doesn't make it wrong to break them. Corporations are not the government, or elected officials, or lawmakers.

I'd love to see EULAs banned by law.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007;15504148*
> Sure I'm not, but your main argument is fundamentally flawed. Neither is Origin offering you any fiscal services, yet the program scans people's tax programs' folders.
> 
> Are you willing to trade your money AND fiscal information for a game just because you are on the Internet ?
> 
> Is Origin offering you any services before you accept the EULA ? No, but it already scanned your folders.


Can I just ask a question here....

If Origin is doing a software search SPECIFICALLY on your program file folders, then why is it surprising that a piece of software installed in a persons program file folders is included?

Just because they have a tax PROGRAM installed there?

Origin scans PROGRAM FILES, we knew this already.......but when Origin scanned program files........surprised all of a sudden?

Why?

If Steam does a software scan during its survey on my program files and I have tax software installed, does it mean Steam is looking for my tax info, or does it mean Steam saw my tax program folder while doing its regular/non suspicious software search in my program files?

If it was the case where this tax program was installed in "C:\SUPER PRIVATE FOLDER" and Origin was sniffing around in it, I'd be concerned, but all it did was scan through program data/files, which Origin TELLS you it does, as does Steam when it does its surveys.

I'd personally like more actual information on the process tbh.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15504005*
> So im immature because I made a joke instead of rageing like everyone else? I honestly don't care. Ea looks at files on my computer? Oh well


Sure, no big deal. While you're at it just post your credit card and social security numbers here on the forums, we won't do anything bad with them, we promise.

Better yet, zip all of the content on your hard drives and seed it on a torrent. You've got nothing to hide...


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


Can I just ask a question here....

If Origin is doing a software search SPECIFICALLY on your program file folders, then why is it surprising that a piece of software installed in a persons program file folders is included?

Just because they have a tax PROGRAM installed there?

Origin scans PROGRAM FILES, we knew this already.......but when Origin scanned program files........surprised all of a sudden?

Why?

If Steam does a software scan during its survey on my program files and I have tax software installed, does it mean Steam is looking for my tax info, or does it mean Steam saw my tax program folder while doing its regular/non suspicious software search in my program files?

If it was the case where this tax program was installed in "C:\\SUPER PRIVATE FOLDER" and Origin was sniffing around in it, I'd be concerned, but all it did was scan through program data/files, which Origin TELLS you it does, as does Steam when it does its surveys.

I'd personally like more actual information on the process tbh.


Go for it. Install Origin and monitor it with Process Monitor at the same time. Seriously - go for it. If it's already installed, fire up Process monitor and launch Origin.

It doesn't just scan 'Program' folders. It scans _almost everything_. Including your 'User' folders (which includes, documents, pictures, etc) and much, much more. *Seriously - those of you touting in disbelief, feel free. Try it for yourself. You'll see. *


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Go for it. Install Origin and monitor it with Process Monitor at the same time. Seriously - go for it. If it's already installed, fire up Process monitor and launch Origin.

It doesn't just scan 'Program' folders. It scans _almost everything_. Including your 'User' folders (which includes, documents, pictures, etc) and much, much more. *Seriously - those of you touting in disbelief, feel free. Try it for yourself. You'll see. *


Oh.

*rubs chin*


----------



## SwishaMane

w/e happen to just making a GAME, A GAME?


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lordikon*


Sure, no big deal. While you're at it just post your credit card and social security numbers here on the forums, we won't do anything bad with them, we promise.

Better yet, zip all of the content on your hard drives and seed it on a torrent. You've got nothing to hide...


thats completely different, its not like this information they are scanning is public, and they are posting it everywhere. and just because they scan it doesnt mean they make a backup of it.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


thats completely different, its not like this information they are scanning is public, and they are posting it everywhere. and just because they scan it doesnt mean they make a backup of it.


Ah, you're right. It's only a game, after all. I mean, no need to be concerned about intrusive detailing of the data on your computer for the sake of the game. The game is much, much more important. I see that now.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


thats completely different, its not like this information they are scanning is public, and they are posting it everywhere. and just because they scan it doesnt mean they make a backup of it.


That's still far far far beyond the scope of what is needed for a video game.


----------



## decompiled

Good case for going console only =)


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Ah, you're right. It's only a game, after all. I mean, no need to be concerned about intrusive detailing of the data on your computer for the sake of the game. The game is much, much more important. I see that now.


you all are acting like EA just screwed you over on this, they have done nothing to you personally. who says that they ever will even look at whats scanned? you figure they have millions of users why would they pay someone to look at that unless there is monetary gain?


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


you all are acting like EA just screwed you over on this, they have done nothing to you personally. who says that they ever will even look at whats scanned? you figure they have millions of users why would they pay someone to look at that unless there is monetary gain?


Ask EA. Go ahead, email them. Find out for all of us. Let's clear the air!









Bingo!


----------



## ErOR

EA.....I knew they were up to something. And all those people laughing in my face for saying I won't buy BF3 until Origin is not required. Well I caved, oh what a game.

LOL

But this is unacceptable, how are they getting away with this?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


you all are acting like EA just screwed you over on this, they have done nothing to you personally. who says that they ever will even look at whats scanned? you figure they have millions of users why would they pay someone to look at that unless there is monetary gain?


It's EA, they WILL look at it.


----------



## TheReciever

So little by little everyone's saving grace of a game has turned into love/hate scenario with origin, origin must love its soaps cause they certainly got one o. Their hands lol

sent from my EVO 3D


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UbNub*


If all my secure files were on Linux would it scan those too? Or would it not be able to gain access? I reall do hate that they do this to us. If I decline the TOS am I able to return a product?


Only if you use NTFS or FAT, which is all Window can see.

You shouldn't be using those anyway.


----------



## InfamousLegend

Dice and Ea have both dropped the ball on this game, worse than ever did with BFBC2, atleast that one had MOST of the features we expect a game to have, with BF3 they took easy street and I seriously want Dice and Ea both to suffer financially from this game, just so next time around with BF4 or whatever BF game that may have in the works wont be such a disappointment or failure.

PC - No in game Voip
PC - Battlelog, a website that completely fails to immerse you into the game and only offers a increased level of communication, and even then you still don't get in game VOIP. You know, that program that lets you communicate...
PC - No out of game graphics, keybind, or kit options, so you have to be in game camping at your base doing nothing for 5-10 minutes not playing because you couldn't adjust these settings outside of the game.
In general - Horrible map
PC - horrible chat box that gets in the way
PC - much much more

Aside from the TOS nothing is wrong with Origin, and I do believe Steam has a relatively same TOS.


----------



## Pillz Here

I just loaded Process Monitor and Origin isn't scanning anything on my PC. Everything looks normal.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lordikon*


Sure, no big deal. While you're at it just post your credit card and social security numbers here on the forums, we won't do anything bad with them, we promise.

Better yet, zip all of the content on your hard drives and seed it on a torrent. You've got nothing to hide...


Not even close to what ea is doing. What are you all scared of? Ea or big brother finding something you don't want anyone to find? I have nothing to hide on my computer. Nothing at all. Ea wants to scan my tax return from the past 5 years? Go ahead. My pictures and videos? Go ahead. Its not like any hacker couldn't do the same thing and not leave a trace.

This is a non issue for me but the rest of you can rage on.


----------



## L36

Nvm


----------



## Pillz Here

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Not even close to what ea is doing. What are you all scared of? Ea or big brother finding something you don't want anyone to find? I have nothing to hide on my computer. Nothing at all. Ea wants to scan my tax return from the past 5 years? Go ahead. My pictures and videos? Go ahead. Its not like any hacker couldn't do the same thing and not leave a trace.

This is a non issue for me but the rest of you can rage on.


I don't understand what everyone is so worried about. I just ran Process Monitor (above post) and Origin wasn't scanning anything. Seems like a lot of unnecessary paranoia to me.


----------



## L36

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Pillz Here*


I don't understand what everyone is so worried about. I just ran Process Monitor (above post) and Origin wasn't scanning anything. Seems like a lot of unnecessary paranoia to me.


It does not scan every time. It does it once you execute it the first time from install.


----------



## TG_bigboss

uh you do know many programs do the same thing origin does right? people these days. Germany over reacts about everything, worse than *some* Americans here lol.(NOT ALL, *SOME!!!*) you yell poop and we are on red alert and the present is flown to some bunker in Antarctica.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


you all are acting like EA just screwed you over on this, they have done nothing to you personally. who says that they ever will even look at whats scanned? you figure they have millions of users why would they pay someone to look at that unless there is monetary gain?


I didn't know the department of defense had a totally weak arguement division.

Go to muckety.com. Type in electronics art. When the connection map opens up click on the money behind electronics art. Watch screen explode with intricate network of companies and people.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Pillz Here*


I don't understand what everyone is so worried about. I just ran Process Monitor (above post) and Origin wasn't scanning anything. Seems like a lot of unnecessary paranoia to me.


I'll be honest and state that I don't know how these scanning programs work but one might think that they don't work ALL THE TIME. Run that program for a week and then I'll be much more inclined to believe that they might not be running scans.


----------



## Frankzro

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Spykerv*


YES POWER TO THE PEOPLE. Wish US did this. I don't think I'll buy BF3 now till origin fixes whatever garbage it's up to (just to protest), but I never check my finances or keep important documents on my gaming pc so meh.


Too busy occupying Wall Street to care about one video game, a computer and some spyware. @ US


----------



## Lostcase

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Razi3l*


Good. I hope EA remove that spyware crap, I want my privacy.


You can have your privacy back, after they know all of your secrets..


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ZainyAntics*


I never understood why people give a damn about them scanning stuff... some people are just so anal about things, I have nothing to hide on my PC so why should I care.


"I have nothing to hide so I'll just let random strangers into my house anytime so they can look around."

If people keep up stuff like this and let their privacy go away, things won't turn out well. Let me know how you feel when you wake up in the middle of the night and some dude is watching you sleep. You have nothing to hide right?


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *discipline*


I read about this. I wonder if steam scans all my computer data. . .


it doesn't.

like the articles say, you can use process explorer to watch what it scans. + VAC is mostly server side.

it's sad. BF3 is such a great game, but Origin is such a crappy service.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


"I have nothing to hide so I'll just let random strangers into my house anytime so they can look around."

If people keep up stuff like this and let their privacy go away, things won't turn out well. Let me know how you feel when you wake up in the middle of the night and some dude is watching you sleep. You have nothing to hide right?


exactly. It's a snowballing effect. If they try to take and you give, they will only try to take more.

And german's know about snoballing effects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came

Quote:



"First they came&#8230;" is a famous statement attributed to pastor Martin NiemÃ¶ller (1892-1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Go for it. Install Origin and monitor it with Process Monitor at the same time. Seriously - go for it. If it's already installed, fire up Process monitor and launch Origin.

It doesn't just scan 'Program' folders. It scans _almost everything_. Including your 'User' folders (which includes, documents, pictures, etc) and much, much more. *Seriously - those of you touting in disbelief, feel free. Try it for yourself. You'll see. *


I just did this and I can now truly give the







to this.

I used the monitor to check what files were looked at during Steam install.

I used the monitor to check what files Origin was looking at during install.

Conclusions:

1 .
The screenshot/story of the guy showing Origin looking at his tax program folder before setup is bullhockey, since his screenshot shows the .exe of an already fully installed Origin.

His screenshot therefore shows nothing but Origin doing a program file survey. Something he already agreed to when clicking the "I agree" box during EULA agreement screen on Origin installation.

Origin does program surveys in program files related folders. He tax program was installed in program file related folders and so it was included in the survey......duh?? Why is this surprising?

If I have a folder called "this is where all my personal info is" in my program folders and I know Origin does program folder searches, why am I then going to freak out?

If this person agreed to a Steam survey, it would check his program files too....since Steam DOES include software in its surveys.

2.
The Origin installer DID NOT scan my program files.

3.
After installation and running, it looked in my program data file briefly then its just origin file and nothing else.

Basically.

-Origin doesn't software sweep before it installs

-It doesn't look in your user files while running.

-It does look at program data, like it says it would in the EULA while running, but only during initialisation. After that its just Origin folder access.

Long story short...meh?

Reality doesn't fit the outrage or fearmongering full of misinformation tbh.

Disagreeing with what is actually happening is fine, but running around like a headless chicken spouting off random rubbish is just.....


----------



## Riou

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


I just did this and I can now truly give the







to this.

I used the monitor to check what files were looked at during Steam install.

I used the monitor to check what files Origin was looking at during install.

Conclusions:

1 .
The screenshot/story of the guy showing Origin looking at his tax program folder before setup is bullhockey, since his screenshot shows the .exe of an already fully installed Origin.

His screenshot therefore shows nothing but Origin doing a program file survey. Something he already agreed to when clicking the "I agree" box during EULA agreement screen on Origin installation.

Origin does program surveys in program files related folders. He tax program was installed in program file related folders and so it was included in the survey......duh?? Why is this surprising?

If I have a folder called "this is where all my personal info is" in my program folders and I know Origin does program folder searches, why am I then going to freak out?

If this person agreed to a Steam survey, it would check his program files too....since Steam DOES include software in its surveys.

2.
The Origin installer DID NOT scan my program files.

3.
After installation and running, it looked in my program data file briefly then its just origin file and nothing else.

Basically.

-Origin doesn't software sweep before it installs

-It doesn't look in your user files while running.

-It does look at program data, like it says it would in the EULA while running, but only during initialisation. After that its just Origin folder access.

Long story short...meh?

Reality doesn't fit the outrage or fearmongering full of misinformation tbh.

Disagreeing with what is actually happening is fine, but running around like a headless chicken spouting off random rubbish is just.....


Show proof.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

I still have the monitor running RIGHT NOW.

If you want proof, you can literally download the 1.6 MB process tracker from MS yourself and check it

Tbh, the fact that the guys picture shows "origin.exe" looking at his PROGRAM DATA and seeing his tax PROGRAM in his PROGRAM data file, when the origin installer is called "originsetup.exe" is enough proof to kill the "origin searches ur stuff before u even installs/agree to teh EULA!!!!" story people in this thread keep selling.

I honestly cba to go out of my way for people who are obviously just on the wagon.


----------



## atennisplayah

dem germans be mad


----------



## lunan1t4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


I still have the monitor running RIGHT NOW.

If you want proof, you can literally download the 1.6 MB process tracker from MS yourself and check it

Tbh, the fact that the guys picture shows "origin.exe" looking at his PROGRAM DATA and seeing his tax PROGRAM in his PROGRAM data file, when the origin installer is called "originsetup.exe" is enough proof to kill the "origin searches ur stuff before u even installs!!!!" story people in this thread keep selling.

I honestly cba to go out of my way for people who are obviously just on the wagon.


Do me favor. I'll quote the EULA

Quote:



2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION.


Unless you have run it for like a month, and with proof that Origin does not do ****, then i bow to you. You see, Steam HAVE OPT, Origin on the other hand, more like take it or leave it.


----------



## tucsondude

ok probably half the programs on your computers collect NON PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE information on your hardware and what software you use. the issue comes with the old origin eula which stated that they may collect personal information and do whatever they wanted with it.(look up the old reddit post).

current eula- section 2 pretty standard besides the first paragraph.
http://eula.dm.origin.com/en_US.html

Please also see:
http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBPRIVACY/US/en/PC/

ps I will not do future business with EA for being this shady. oh an when bf3 works it is awesome


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lunan1t4*


Do me favor. I'll quote the EULA

Unless you have run it for like a month, and with proof that Origin does not do ****, then i bow to you. You see, Steam HAVE OPT, Origin on the other hand, more like take it or leave it.


That disproves NOTHING of what I said to be honest. I know Origin checks your program data....check a few posts up from the post you just quoted.

My point was to show that:

a) 
Origin DOES NOT sweep your computer before you install/agree to the EULA like people have been saying in this thread.

That's just fearmongering and LIES.

b) 
The person I was quoting said that an installed Origin looks at "almost everything" including my picture/video/documents, when all it looks at is your program data folder, to check the program data use that you yourself show that they TELL YOU they will check in the EULA that you have to AGREE TO before they will do it.

Program data folder != "almost everything".

Monitoring "software use" != Scanning your "my pictures" file.

Again, fearmongering and LIES.

No point trying to point out the truth to this mob though.

Its ironic isn't it?

People raging and roaring about HONESTY and TRUST and this and that and blah blah blah, but when someone tries to shed some actual truth (that people may still disagree with, but at least its the TRUTH) people fight you down for it and continue to spread FEARMONGERING and LIES to fuel their own snide agendas that are 100x less righteous than you think they are and people just lap it all up and fight down the actual truth of the matter









Carry on ranting tbh.

The only thing worse than a person who spreads lies is the gang of blind people behind them supporting their lies due to their hunger for uproar and pitchforking, while at the same time calling anyone who disagrees with the lies the blind ones.


----------



## Rangerscott

Keep your gaming rig just for that, gaming. Go buy a cheapo lappy for personal stuff. LOL

Anyways, yea "legal" spyware is pure crap


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


I just did this and I can now truly give the







to this.

I used the monitor to check what files were looked at during Steam install.

I used the monitor to check what files Origin was looking at during install.

Conclusions:

1 .
The screenshot/story of the guy showing Origin looking at his tax program folder before setup is bullhockey, since his screenshot shows the .exe of an already fully installed Origin.

His screenshot therefore shows nothing but Origin doing a program file survey. Something he already agreed to when clicking the "I agree" box during EULA agreement screen on Origin installation.

Origin does program surveys in program files related folders. He tax program was installed in program file related folders and so it was included in the survey......duh?? Why is this surprising?

If I have a folder called "this is where all my personal info is" in my program folders and I know Origin does program folder searches, why am I then going to freak out?

If this person agreed to a Steam survey, it would check his program files too....since Steam DOES include software in its surveys.

2.
The Origin installer DID NOT scan my program files.

3.
After installation and running, it looked in my program data file briefly then its just origin file and nothing else.

Basically.

-Origin doesn't software sweep before it installs

-It doesn't look in your user files while running.

-It does look at program data, like it says it would in the EULA while running, but only during initialisation. After that its just Origin folder access.

Long story short...meh?

Reality doesn't fit the outrage or fearmongering full of misinformation tbh.

Disagreeing with what is actually happening is fine, but running around like a headless chicken spouting off random rubbish is just.....



Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


I still have the monitor running RIGHT NOW.

If you want proof, you can literally download the 1.6 MB process tracker from MS yourself and check it

Tbh, the fact that the guys picture shows "origin.exe" looking at his PROGRAM DATA and seeing his tax PROGRAM in his PROGRAM data file, when the origin installer is called "originsetup.exe" is enough proof to kill the "origin searches ur stuff before u even installs/agree to teh EULA!!!!" story people in this thread keep selling.

I honestly cba to go out of my way for people who are obviously just on the wagon.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


That disproves NOTHING of what I said to be honest. I know Origin checks your program data....check a few posts up from the post you just quoted.

My point was to show that:

a) 
Origin DOES NOT sweep your computer before you install/agree to the EULA like people have been saying in this thread.

That's just fearmongering and LIES.

b) 
The person I was quoting said that an installed Origin looks at "almost everything" including my picture/video/documents, when all it looks at is your program data folder, to check the program data use that you yourself show that they TELL YOU they will check in the EULA that you have to AGREE TO before they will do it.

Program data folder != "almost everything".

Monitoring "software use" != Scanning your "my pictures" file.

Again, fearmongering and LIES.

No point trying to point out the truth to this mob though.

Its ironic isn't it?

People raging and roaring about HONESTY and TRUST and this and that and blah blah blah, but when someone tries to shed some actual truth (that people may still disagree with, but at least its the TRUTH) people fight you down for it and continue to spread FEARMONGERING and LIES to fuel their own snide agendas that are 100x less righteous than you think they are and people just lap it all up and fight down the actual truth of the matter









Carry on ranting tbh.

The only thing worse than a person who spreads lies is the gang of blind people behind them supporting their lies due to their hunger for uproar and pitchforking (or just sharing the same agenda as the original liar), while at the same time calling anyone who disagrees with the lies the blind ones.


Ill just leave these here.


----------



## Gunderman456

It should be this simple - when I buy a game, I do not want any 2nd or 3rd party software to be able to run my game. Crazy that I have to jump through hoops to even gain access to a menu.

Come on guys, we should be able to install and play the game. Why are some defending these drakonion measures?

Excusing Origin/Battlelog or BF3 and EA/Dice and their actions is just hurting gamers.

The game has no LAN, self hosting capabilities, VOIP chat, you need two 3rd party softwares to run it and to be able to access a menu and there have been many worldwide that could not even access the game after purchasing it (Origin being down) and not to mention the privacy issues that have surfaces etc...

Instead of treating this as a travesty, some people have been conditioned into docility.

I want to install and play my games without having to jump through any hoops including unwarranted internet check/connection to access single player games. I also insist on having all the features I come to expect from PC gaming.

Additionally, do not nickle and dime me with DLC, sell me a complete game.

No more excuses.

PS, do not turn every franchise into an MMO with all the innovative methods that genre has deviously manufactured to extract more money.

I had more to say on this here;

http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/11...pc-gaming.html


----------



## surfbumb

I really want BF3...but EA forcing origin down our throats to play is a dealbreaker. I've read all the complaints and issues...most of them directed at origin...and not even towards the game itself. A line must be drawn for some people...and this is it for me...especially if the spyware rumors are true.


----------



## Kand

Grizzleboy

GanjaSMK.

Videos and Pictures would be nice.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *surfbumb*


I really want BF3...but EA forcing origin down our throats to play is a dealbreaker. I've read all the complaints and issues...most of them directed at origin...and not even towards the game itself. A line must be drawn for some people...and this is it for me...especially if the spyware rumors are true.


The rumors that Origin does a sweep of your HD before you even install it/agree to the EULA?

Lies.

The rumors that Origin searches everything on your HD?

Lies.

Does Origin look in your "program data" folder to check software use as it states in the EULA?

Yes.

Does Origin go searching every nook and cranny of your HD for anything named "tax", "cc details" or "nudes"?

No.

I guess it just hinges on whether you care about EA knowing about what software/hardware you have on/in your PC.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kand*


Grizzleboy

GanjaSMK.

Videos and Pictures would be nice.


The way the process monitor works would make proving my points pretty hard without tonnes of pics and I doubt video quality would show you what you want to see out of the thousands and thousands of lines of text the monitor creates over time.

Just DL it yourself, its a 1.6mb program.

Use the filter to check for only "Origin.exe" process and you'll see for yourself.


----------



## Kand

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


The rumors that Origin does a sweep of your HD before you even install it/agree to the EULA?

Lies.

The rumors that Origin searches everything on your HD?

Lies.

Does Origin look in your "program data" folder to check software use as it states in the EULA?

Yes.

Does Origin go searching every nook and cranny of your HD for anything named "tax", "cc details" or "nudes"?

No.

I guess it just hinges on whether you care about EA knowing about what software/hardware you have on/in your PC.


Pictures and Video please.

I don't want to have to install Origin myself to be convinced.


----------



## GanjaSMK

I have already uninstalled Origin. If you're not seeing the directories, because you're not scrolling enough or going through the thousands *yes thousands* of Origin bits so be it, not my problem. The moment I came to Origin accessing 'C:\\User\\xxx' and more, I decided I'd had enough.

But be the puff of illusion you'd like to be. I won't be buying BF3 unless it's available without Origin and works with Steam.


----------



## Kand

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*


The way the process monitor works would make proving my points pretty hard without tonnes of pics and I doubt video quality would show you what you want to see out of the thousands and thousands of lines of text the monitor creates over time.

Just DL it yourself, its a 1.6mb program.

Use the filter to check for only "Origin.exe" process and you'll see for yourself.


Downloading processmonitor is one thing.

Installing Origin is another.

How about you supply proof instead?


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WorldExclusive*


Funny how people have the courage to stand up to video game makers, but are silent when it comes their Government.


Brother this is the best post in this thread period, the majority are cowards when it comes to gov infringing on our rights but let a game company or mel gibson make a movie people dont agree with and everyone goes bonkers, this world is so backwards i dont think we have a chance to get it right


----------



## G. Callen

It's been six hours and this thread is only up to page 21? I kinda had my bets at least to the mid thirties by now.









After reading all of the arguments presented in this thread I honestly don't know where I stand as facts have been thrown around here and there and I am not sure what I believe in here. So I am just going to play Battlefield 3 and leave it at that.


----------



## Riou

Origin is sending data to Facebook.com, Amazon EC2 cloud, and AkamaiTechnlogies.

My Origin account is not even linked with Facebook.







Perhaps it is benign?


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


I have already uninstalled Origin. If you're not seeing the directories, because you're not scrolling enough or going through the thousands *yes thousands* of Origin bits so be it, not my problem. The moment I came to Origin accessing 'C:\\User\\xxx' and more, I decided I'd had enough.

But be the puff of illusion you'd like to be. I won't be buying BF3 unless it's available without Origin and works with Steam.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You mean like how it accesses its own appdata files in "users" to show web content for the store?










You want to talk about "illusions"?

How about you show me where Origin is accessing as you say "almost everything" on my PC? or is "program data" folder supposed to be "almost everything" on my PC?


----------



## fishy_de

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*   That disproves NOTHING of what I said to be honest. I know Origin checks your program data....check a few posts up from the post you just quoted.

My point was to show that:

a) 
Origin DOES NOT sweep your computer before you install/agree to the EULA like people have been saying in this thread.

That's just fearmongering and LIES.  
Yea, right.
I know this is german, but I am sure you will understand it just fine, that it does scan even before you accepted the ToS. (In this example for steam, maybe in future for your MSN, ICQ contacts. Hell, maybe even your Outlook. What the hell, why not the music folder right in the beginning. You got nothing to hide right? You bought all your music on a legal way. Sure.







Just to be sure tho I will take a sneak peak, you dont mind?
  
 You Tube  



 
 Quote: 
 
b) 
The person I was quoting said that an installed Origin looks at "almost everything" including my picture/video/documents, when all it looks at is your program data folder, to check the program data use that you yourself show that they TELL YOU they will check in the EULA that you have to AGREE TO before they will do it.

Program data folder != "almost everything".  
Yet. Are you waiting until its happening or you gonna stop it before it happens? One day or another it will, believe me.

Quote: 
  Monitoring "software use" != Scanning your "my pictures" file.

Again, fearmongering and LIES.

No point trying to point out the truth to this mob though.  
I could text you in german of how stupid you are with this behavior, but I dont think we'll be friends then anymore. And I dont wanna be rude, because I dont know you.

Quote: 
  Its ironic isn't it?   
Yes.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Origin is sending data to Facebook.com, Amazon EC2 cloud, and AkamaiTechnlogies.

My Origin account is not even linked with Facebook.







Perhaps it is benign?




















WTH?









EA needs to fix this crap ASAP.


----------



## Draygonn

I have held out on buying BF3 for two reasons:

1. to let them fix bugs

2. to see how this privacy stuff pans out.

so far, so entertaining.


----------



## fishy_de

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Origin is sending data to Facebook.com, Amazon EC2 cloud, and AkamaiTechnlogies.

My Origin account is not even linked with Facebook.







Perhaps it is benign?




















Wow.. this is just.. wow I cant find the right words for it. EA plus Facebook. Hippie yay, we'r coming!


----------



## Riou

This is probably Origin scanning the video hardware in registry.


----------



## Futan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou;15505392*
> Origin is sending data to Facebook.com, Amazon EC2 cloud, and AkamaiTechnlogies.
> 
> My Origin account is not even linked with Facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it is benign?


Facebook has it's own ads. It's buying the information so it can run more relevant ads in general. That's what all this is about. There's a LOT of money in advertising. How do you think a search engine became the enormous billion dollar corporation it is? Referencing Google.

Don't get me wrong, I *STRONGLY* disagree with what EA is doing and just makes me all the more glad I decided to put off Origin/BF3.


----------



## FenrirXIII

EA and the rest of us all know as soon as Origin is not required for BF3, it will die. I'm going to hold out for a little longer. BF3 is just the bait to get other developers on board. Remember that article about THQ's SR3 and a couple other companies' content coming to Origin soon? As soon as that stuff starts hitting, I'm willing to bet they -might- let BF3 reigns come lose from strictly Origin.

I'm itching to play it really bad, but refuse to until EA changes it's gears in regards to the game. Good 'ol bc2 for now! If any dev or publisher from the modern warfare series reads this, don't get your hopes up. I'd rather play an older BF game than a 5 time-stale cookie u pop out of the oven called MW or COD.


----------



## Chrono Detector

I don't see this ending well.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishy_de;15505596*
> And you dont care that it does scan your primary harddrive (C:\*)? Isnt that enough? Or you just scream when it does scan everything - when its too late?


I never actually gave my opinion or whether its "good" or "bad", I simply showed people that some of the things they are being told are lies.

I said already that I dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with Origin checking what software you use, I simply disagreed with all the false info that was being spread around along with all the relevant truths.


----------



## guitarmageddon88

1. All programs do this
2. Its not opening the files
3. secure your important tax files
4. Google and Facebook essentially do the same thing and build profiles on an IP adress, as they continue to track movements after the user has logged off. Wonder if they'll outlaw that and burn google likenesses?

Done.

On an unrelated note, its funny how spell check highlights "google" and "facebook" as needing to be capitalized...but not "god"


----------



## fishy_de

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guitarmageddon88;15505765*
> 1. All programs do this *My grandma used to cook sundays. All grandmas used to do that.*
> 2. Its not opening the files *FileOpen means.. uhh.. File..AlmostOpen??*
> 3. secure your important tax files *Right. Maybe your toaster will come steal them if you dont. Because Software isnt bad enough.*
> 4. Google and Facebook essentially do the same thing and build profiles on an IP adress, as they continue to track movements after the user has logged off. Wonder if they'll outlaw that and burn google likenesses? *Great. We've had this already in the german forums. The stuff with Facebook etc. Heres what we got: You can live without it. If you want to play BF3, you MUST use Origin so you MUST accept the ToS, so you WILL have spyware on your computer. Isnt it just great? Its a little bonus, sort of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also (I am not on Facebook myself) you can decide whatever you want to post on Facebook. If you want to post your last weekend photo, go ahead. Origin is so smart: It doesnt ask you, it will just take it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome. ("How can I get Origin to post my photos on Facebook?")*
> 
> Done. *Thats right.*
> 
> On an unrelated note, its funny how spell check highlights "google" and "facebook" as needing to be capitalized...but not "god"


*"Answers" in red..*


----------



## guitarmageddon88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishy_de;15505851*
> *"Answers" in red..*


See my response in green.

your responses were pretty much irrelevant. Please type a new one.

More done.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

In conlusion, ITT:

People who swear by their life that EA is out to get them. *Crazy old man conspiracist voice* Be careful! They gon' get ya! No. They're really not. They don't give a rat's rear about your personal life.

People who had no problems with Origin, bashed Steam, and defended Origin to the death, are now bashing on Origin over something so hilariously stupid. I recognize plenty of you in here. I love the smell.

People who swear to their death that they will not buy BF3/any EA titles until they become available on Steam/do away with Origin blah blah blah that will go ahead and buy them anyways in a few weeks when they go on sale for $10 off.


----------



## Futan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guitarmageddon88;15505765*
> On an unrelated note, its funny how spell check highlights "google" and "facebook" as needing to be capitalized...but not "god"


Because it's only capitalized if you're talking about "the" God(whichever that may or may not be for you), not a god. Zeus was considered a god. Jesus is God. See the difference?


----------



## fishy_de

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros;15505893*
> In conlusion, ITT:
> 
> People who swear by their life that EA is out to get them. *Crazy old man conspiracist voice* Be careful! They gon' get ya! No. They're really not. They don't give a rat's rear about your personal life.


You'r wrong. Your life is worth money. The information they get (whatever kind of information, lets say online time, game type you play) will be transformed into money with advertisment and maybe more.
Quote:


> People who had no problems with Origin, bashed Steam, and defended Origin to the death, are now bashing on Origin over something so hilariously stupid. I recognize plenty of you in here. I love the smell.


So the screenshots and videos are all fakes, because _____ ? Fill in the blanks.
Quote:


> People who swear to their death that they will not buy BF3/any EA titles until they become available on Steam/do away with Origin blah blah blah that will go ahead and buy them anyways in a few weeks when they go on sale for $10 off.


Some, maybe. I for one, wont buy it (and any other coming EA games) until Origin has been recoded into no spyware program.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Futan*


Because it's only capitalized if you're talking about "the" God(whichever that may or may not be for you), not a god. Zeus was considered a god. Jesus is God. See the difference?


No, actually, I don't?


----------



## fishy_de

Quote:



Originally Posted by *guitarmageddon88*


See my response in green.

your responses were pretty much irrelevant. Please type a new one.

More done.










Great conter by the way. All you got? And I wanted to discuss with you.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*


People who swear to their death that they will not buy BF3/any EA titles until they become available on Steam/do away with Origin blah blah blah that will go ahead and buy them anyways in a few weeks when they go on sale for $10 off.


I won't, others will not as well. I could care less about 10% off, the game will still be a rip-off. BF3 isn't very good, but then again neither is MW3, they both suck. Anyone who rates the game higher than 5/10, likes being served up rehashed garbage for $60.

If you think Origin is harmless then you go ahead and play the fool. Don't come crying to me when EA gets hacked and your info gets stolen and posted on the internet for all to see. EA painted a huge target on their back and now they are about to pay. You thought PSN being down for a couple months was fun just wait. Facebook is going down and then EA is up next.


----------



## BlackOmega

HAHAH and everyone was wondering why BF3 ran like crap.


----------



## Draygonn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*


Don't come crying to me when EA gets hacked and your info gets stolen and posted on the internet for all to see.


Didn't EA get hacked a few months ago? I remember having to reset my password to play BC2. Not that anyone would benefit from stealing my low k/d ratio account.


----------



## Futan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Draygonn*


Didn't EA get hacked a few months ago? I remember having to reset my password to play BC2. Not that anyone would benefit from stealing my low k/d ratio account.


Don't worry about that, they send the information straight from your computer to advertisers. So you just need to worry anytime any advertiser gets hacked, not EA!


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*


In conlusion, ITT:

People who swear by their life that EA is out to get them. *Crazy old man conspiracist voice* Be careful! They gon' get ya! No. They're really not. They don't give a rat's rear about your personal life.

People who had no problems with Origin, bashed Steam, and defended Origin to the death, are now bashing on Origin over something so hilariously stupid. I recognize plenty of you in here. I love the smell.

People who swear to their death that they will not buy BF3/any EA titles until they become available on Steam/do away with Origin blah blah blah that will go ahead and buy them anyways in a few weeks when they go on sale for $10 off.


There actually is a 4th group of people that aren't conspiracy theorists who are regular adults who value their right to privacy and do not think that they should have to compromise their privacy to play a game that they played full price for. I could understand this tradeoff if EA was offering to subsidize the game based off the ad money they're about to generate from all this info but if you're making me pay full price AND your making me give you my info so you can sell it, that's too much.

I love Steam but I'm not an idiot fanboy. I dislike many things that EA has done in the past but nothing has kept me from buying games they've been behind in the past.

I wouldn't give 2 cares about Origin if i felt it wasn't invading my privacy. I use GOG.com occasionally to buy stuff so it's not as though I'm apposed to buying games on other DD's.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Even more reason for me to hate Origin more than I already did. We now have actual proof (screenshots AND videos) of their spyware.

And to think, I was almost contemplating getting BF3 because of co-op mode, and saying screw it to my morals against Origin. Yeah, not happening now.

DICE needs to drop Origin for BF3, period. Or I won't buy it. I don't care if it comes out on Steam honestly (would be a plus...remember steam lets you OPT OUT of the surveys), but I could care less if I have to use Steam. But I will NOT install Origin.

Also:
GrizzleBoy, I know you're going to come in here and flame me. I can smell it a mile away. Just a nice heads up....don't do it, I don't have time for your twisting of my words around right now. Keep in mind, I DO want BF3. What I don't want is Origin.


----------



## doomlord52

Cue German/EU anti-trust suit, followed by some horrendous fine (see Microsoft... several-times). Microsoft can take a hit of a few billion euros. Im fairly certain EA cant.


----------



## Shichibukai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pillz Here;15504630*
> I just loaded Process Monitor and Origin isn't scanning anything on my PC. Everything looks normal.


Then what exactly is it doing on mine? Do you have a special version of Origin I don't know about?


----------



## reflex99

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

My friend today saw me playing BF3 and was all like "Did you hear about what Origin does?! It's all over the news here" (he lives in Germany).

I was just like yea, it reports back system info.....and he kinda just left it at that.

That's why he was so worried.....

Also he has windows XP, so he can't play the game anyways...and he was kinda pissed there.

Me personally: cat duck....


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn;15506032*
> Didn't EA get hacked a few months ago? I remember having to reset my password to play BC2. Not that anyone would benefit from stealing my low k/d ratio account.


I know Bioware was affected. I had to change my password too.


----------



## george_orm

, i have the game, origin installed, it still makes me angry that my pc isn't mine,

i pay for it, and i pay a lot lot (nearly swore, lol have been warned) i should be able to not have my pc scanned for there purposes, nor have to sign massive ulr's just to play the game, sure i wont hack ur game, sure i wont make pirated copy's, but get the freak out of my pc,


----------



## hxcnero

i checked to see what all the fuss is about. take note that i manually install all programs. I dont let windows default anything.

i scrolled thru pretty much the entire list of origin stuff and the only i saw it doing on my system was making TCP connections with amazonaws.com, which i'm going to assume has something to do with advertising. i would like to know what kind of request its sending and what its receiving back. according to the viewer origin connects to amazon, sends something(which i assume is a request) then origin recieves what it requested from amazon.

i also noticed origin accessing some videocard related registry files.

other than that from what ive seen so far origin has stayed within the directory i installed it in which is B:\eaorigin\origin\xxxx

take note i am neither for or against origin. the accusations made against EA and origin I feel are worthy enough for users/potential users to do research and make their own decisions on the matter. I am merely sharing my personal observations with my PC.

edit--

added a pic of origin making tcp requests to amazon


----------



## Milestailsprowe

Does Steam do this?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Milestailsprowe;15506430*
> Does Steam do this?


No. Steam does a hardware survey, and they'll check program files. However it ONLY does it if you opt in to do it. You're given the choice. It's not forced down your throat like with Origin.


----------



## aldfig0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15506455*
> No. Steam does a hardware survey, and they'll check program files. However it ONLY does it if you opt in to do it. You're given the choice. It's not forced down your throat like with Origin.


A person chooses to download origin.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;15506466*
> A person chooses to download origin.


Because Battlefield 3 isn't on Steam.

/thread


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;15506466*
> A person chooses to download origin.


----------



## Kand

Origin.

Not cool.


----------



## aldfig0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15506490*


What? Do you disagree that this is a choice that you're not forced to make?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;15506511*
> What? Do you disagree that this is a choice that you're not forced to make?


You ARE forced to use Origin if you want to play BF3. That's the ENTIRE problem here......


----------



## aldfig0

But you don't have to play BF3.


----------



## Kand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;15506523*
> But you don't have to play BF3.


My copy's just sitting in storage, not being installed until this is sorted out. ;3


----------



## hxcnero

hopefully this will cause a big enough storm that EA will change things to make customers happy.

if anything maybe the the potential for profit loss will get EA's attention.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I understand that the principle here is completely wrong. And I agree entirely.

But I highly doubt that Origin is submitting data to EA about that tax program's data for example. Even if it was, the hell is EA going to do with it?

I would be outraged too, don't get me wrong. I hate Origin as it is.


----------



## Kand

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/lsoj6/still_thinking_eas_origin_is_harmless/c2vbjty

I'm still not over the fence.


----------



## Alatar

I don't like the fact that Origin scans my program files and sends some data to EA's own Amazon services for advertising (what company doesn't do that?), and I would of course like that they'd stop this.

However I find it strange that because of this people are screaming that Origin will scan every piece of data you have on your computer, steal all your personal info down to your tax documents and then do something evil with it. And then when someone says that it doesn't people disregard the poster entirely and demand proof. Didn't know that people here and Americans especially would go "Guilty until proven innocent" on Origin.

People don't seem to have a problem with Google or Facebook mining your data even if you haven't signed up for these services. For example Facebook forms a profile of your browsing history when you connect to sites that have like buttons or any Facebook elements (the percentage of such sites is actually quite big atm...) and people don't seem to have such a big issue with it.

In the end it all comes what it all comes down to is do you value playing BF3 with your friends and having fun more than staying safe from Origin scanning your program files. Choice is yours, please make it.

One more thing. I find it extremely ignorant and childish that some people are calling the guys not in arms about origin ignorant and childish. Only the grown up adults care about privacy right?


----------



## pale_neon

Next thing Origin will be downloading all your bookmarks & contacts; then selling the information along with your name, address, age, ip addresses & anything else.

Hey, they gotta make money somehow right?


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28;15506613*
> I understand that the principle here is completely wrong. And I agree entirely.
> 
> But I highly doubt that Origin is submitting data to EA about that tax program's data for example. Even if it was, the hell is EA going to do with it?
> 
> I would be outraged too, don't get me wrong. I hate Origin as it is.


Pretty much this.


----------



## gooface

i just browsed what it was doing, and all I saw it was doing was the amazon thing, on top of that it wasnt messing with any of my files.


----------



## mega_option101

I grabbed some popcorn and decided to re-open this









Keep it civil, if I have to start cleaning posts, I will close this thread


----------



## Calipso

I thought 5entinel said this thread would not be unlocked or re-opened. What happened?


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Calipso*


I thought 5entinel said this thread would not be unlocked or re-opened. What happened?


I am sitting in at this point.

I am sure he had good reason to close this after cleaning it for 4 times... I will be actively over-looking the discussion from here on out to avoid this









Nothing wrong with what he did, I just feel that others should have a chance to comment on this as well


----------



## Kleingetier

I hope you guys really keep it calm this time as a serious matter deserves.
Whatever your thoughts about it are..
~OP


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kleingetier*


I hope you guys really keep it calm this time as a serious matter deserves.
~OP


posts like this are really flame bait for people like me, I have stated already, I have watched what the program does, and it scanned nothing, absolutely nothing... so to me its a joke. it shows how an idea can make people react without even thinking or seeing for themselves.


----------



## Zen00

Here's the German Amazon website if you feel like seeing it for yourself.

  Battlefield 3: Pc: Amazon.de: Games


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:



Originally Posted by *consume*


talk about going overboard...


It's not going overboard though. This is the reason why Origin is a terrible thing to download. It annoys me to no end because of the ToS. If you can hire a lawyer and actually find problems with the ToS of a particular program, that should speak for itself.


----------



## Spykerv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


I am sitting in at this point.

I am sure he had good reason to close this after cleaning it for 4 times... I will be actively over-looking the discussion from here on out to avoid this









Nothing wrong with what he did, I just feel that others should have a chance to comment on this as well










You sir are winning. I mean it.


----------



## Riou

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


posts like this are really flame bait for people like me, I have stated already, I have watched what the program does, and it scanned nothing, absolutely nothing... so to me its a joke. it shows how an idea can make people react without even thinking or seeing for themselves.


Your experience does not invalidate other people's experience. Origin has connected with Facebook and scanned my hardware (and likely uploaded) without my permission.


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Your experience does not invalidate other people's experience.


yes but to claim that everyone's files are being scanned by EA is a lie, and I am not the only one that has stated this.

people before you start thinking that EA is spying on you, try it out for yourselves because I think you might be surprised. Its not happening to everyone, that's a fact. So your experience doesn't invalidate mine either.

the point that others were making as well, is if they did scan it, what is the worst they can do? Its not like they are uploading it to a public domain so everyone has access to it.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zen00*


Here's the German Amazon website if you feel like seeing it for yourself.

Battlefield 3: Pc: Amazon.de: Games


Can you read German? Just curious...


----------



## Riou

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


yes but to claim that everyone's files are being scanned by EA is a lie, and I am not the only one that has stated this.

people before you start thinking that EA is spying on you, try it out for yourselves because I think you might be surprised. Its not happening to everyone, that's a fact. So your experience doesn't invalidate mine either.

the point that others were making as well, is if they did scan it, what is the worst they can do?


Read my edit. I left process viewer scanning for a several hours. If you just open up Origin and monitor it for 2 minutes, you probably won't find anything.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


I am sitting in at this point.

I am sure he had good reason to close this after cleaning it for 4 times... I will be actively over-looking the discussion from here on out to avoid this









Nothing wrong with what he did, I just feel that others should have a chance to comment on this as well










Thank you for taking the risk, mega_option101.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Here:


----------



## gooface

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Your experience does not invalidate other people's experience. Origin has connected with Facebook and scanned my hardware (and likely uploaded) without my permission.


I gave steam permission to connect to my facebook and I think its cool that they scan my hardware when they do the surveys, tbh I dont have a problem with that at all, unless they are trying to sell me crap by doing that, but I use adblock plus so I never see ads.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Thank you for taking the risk, mega_option101.










I am of the opinion that mature discussions can still be had on this subject while respecting one another.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


Can you read German? Just curious...










Not really, but Google can.


----------



## robwadeson

Why would they want to get such data about us? Leave us alone with our games!


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zen00*


Not really, but Google can.










I can read German and a lot of the comments/ratings that I have read have little or nothing to do with data collection









Might help people understand a little more about the percentages given for 1 star ratings.

Just thought you should all know


----------



## Brutuz

This is why you only run Origin when you want to play a game on it.


----------



## xPrestonn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


I can read German and a lot of the comments/ratings that I have read have little or nothing to do with data collection









Might help people understand a little more about the percentages given for 1 star ratings.

Just thought you should all know










The game's amazon rating is affected the same way everywhere else. lots of people who don't like ea/origin and don't actually own the game

also, I was hoping you couldn't read german so I could help but nevermind

/dreamscrushed


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *robwadeson*


Why would they want to get such data about us? Leave us alone with our games!


Most likely because they want to understand their target market. Mind you, I would have rather a nice and simple survey instead of stealth scans, but I guess this gets them what they want in the end









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


This is why you only run Origin when you want to play a game on it.


You understood it all









Quote:



Originally Posted by *xPrestonn*


The game's amazon rating is affected the same way everywhere else. lots of people who don't like ea/origin and don't actually own the game

also, I was hoping you couldn't read german so I could help but nevermind

/dreamscrushed


----------



## Zen00

I just posted the link since there was a screen shot in the OP post, wanted to help people have access to the source.


----------



## magicase

I hear Sandboxie will fix this problem of Origin scanning all your files but my question is will it decrease performance if you use Sandboxie?


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zen00*


I just posted the link since there was a screen shot in the OP post, wanted to help people have access to the source.


No worries









Nothing wrong with that, I was just wondering if you knew what was going on inside that webpage lol


----------



## Deacon

The biggest problem here is not the game its Origin, I my self am not gonna buy this game as long has I have to use origin to play it, and trust me I want to PLAY IT, looks amazing, but Origin is a no go for me.
And I'm pretty sure that forcing the customer to use Origin to play the game and to invade the customer privacy like that is illegal in many countries, Microsoft got into a an Anti-Trust law suit because something similar with the IE web browser:
http://www.overclock.net/software-ne...-ms-again.html
EA has gone to far this time, if Germany gets this thing rolling for real it might engulf entire Europe on this, and then EA will have a huge problem on their hands, what baffles me is the fact that the US government and the US players haven't start a real fire against EA about this privacy invasion.


----------



## SillyconeChip

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


This is why you only run Origin when you want to play a game on it.


Unfortunately, this isnt the answer as origin could perform this scan at any time and pass on the data.

I sent a request to EA for details on the scope of their scanning routines, I'll post any replies in this thread. I'm also going to send a request to see exactly what data they are storing, apparently they are legally obliged to respond.

Glad this thread has been re-opened.


----------



## NFL

It doesn't bother me because I have nothing sensitive on my desktop...however, I do see why people are fired up over this. Since I'm too lazy to scan through 27 pgs of comments, can some tell me what files are being scanned? Also, are these scans being acted on in any way?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Deacon*


EA has gone to far this time, if Germany gets this thing rolling for real it might engulf entire Europe on this, and then EA will have a huge problem on their hands, what baffles me is the fact that the US government and the US players haven't start a real fire against EA about this privacy invasion.


Because it would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black


----------



## Deacon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NFL*


It doesn't bother me because I have nothing sensitive on my desktop...however, I do see why people are fired up over this. Since I'm too lazy to scan through 27 pgs of comments, can some tell me what files are being scanned? Also, are these scans being acted on in any way?


Everything is being scanned, from your homemade porn (







) to your taxes... bottom line everything.


----------



## mrwalker

I just checked which files Origin accesses on my PC and what do you know it checks which songs I have uploaded on my iPod, it checks the product registration for my Creative sound card but I don't have that many applications installed at the moment, only a few.


----------



## MaxFTW

what is the program everyones using to look what origin (or other programs) are doing?


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaxFTW*


what is the program everyones using to look what origin (or other programs) are doing?


Task Manager I believe


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaxFTW*


what is the program everyones using to look what origin (or other programs) are doing?


http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896645

I'm interested about Sandboxie, is that effective?


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaxFTW*


what is the program everyones using to look what origin (or other programs) are doing?


It's Process Monitor, actually.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Im still waiting for the Steam version of the game xD

it can be true to be honest

Origin do nothing for BF3,,,its all in Battlelog


----------



## Gunderman456

Sad that people now have to resort yet to another program "Sandboxie" to keep "Origin" in check, while using "Process Monitor" to see what is being scanned while also using "Battlelog" so they can play BF3, when no programs should be required other then BF3 itself.


----------



## Manooloo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gunderman456*


Sad that people now have to resort yet to another program "Sandboxie" to keep "Origin" in check, while using "Process Monitor" to see what is being scanned while also using "Battlelog" so they can play BF3, when no programs should be required other then BF3 itself.


You forgot the Web Browser


----------



## anotheralex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


It's Process Monitor, actually.


Thanks for the link.
I originally thought Origin was just scanning apps that are running while Origin was running, but it scans all your files, even if you installed origin and the games on a separate hard drive!
It even scans through the registry!


----------



## hello im sean

really... look this is how i view it, i know how insecure the internet is, and pretty much everything except hard cash. But you know i've come to accept that it's the world we live in. I cant go around living like a hermit with cash only that's just impractical. However i know if somebody really did want to steal my money and my identity, it probably wouldnt be very hard. However ill cross that bridge when the time comes. Internet security is a joke and i think we've all come to realize that as of late. This i the world we live in, but instead of worrying about everything little thing, im going to enjoy the hell out of BF3 and take one day at a time. However i do agree EA is stepping out of line with all of this origin privacy invasion shenanigans.


----------



## Sir Shfvingle

In the end though, it's EA's product. If you don't like their terms, don't use their product. If their terms are against the law in your country, it's their loss for losing sales in an entire country. All you lose is a game, while they lose millions. They want to sell it to you, but, it is not your right to play a game if it is illegal. Now please, get back to work so we can worry about more important things.


----------



## d33r

How do i know if im still being spyed on? I had the bf3 beta at one point and installed orgin....but after the beta trial ended i uninstalled it....is it still spying on my computer? how can i tell?


----------



## Xinoxide

I liked the beta, but after origin kept crashing alongside other apps, and then finding some of those articles about origin snooping my other apps, do not want.


----------



## Gunderman456

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d33r*


How do i know if im still being spyed on? I had the bf3 beta at one point and installed orgin....but after the beta trial ended i uninstalled it....is it still spying on my computer? how can i tell?










Uninstalling Origin should do it.

If you have a type A paranoid personality, well you can always check the registry for traces or reformat the drive just to be safe.


----------



## Lxcivic2k1

I'm really glad people decided to stand up against EA. I would love to play BF3, DICE seems to have made a solid game, but linking it with Origin killed it for me, and probably a lot of the sales they would have had through Steam.

I'm open for other companies to do Digital Distribution, but to take a huge game from one just so you can promote your in house one is stupid, greedy, and bad for customers.


----------



## Gunderman456

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lxcivic2k1*


I'm really glad people decided to stand up against EA. I would love to play BF3, DICE seems to have made a solid game, but linking it with Origin killed it for me, and probably a lot of the sales they would have had through Steam.

I'm open for other companies to do Digital Distribution, but to take a huge game from one just so you can promote your in house one is stupid, greedy, and bad for customers.


Well, this is what comes to mind;

1. They don't want Valve/Steam to get a cut or grow larger.
2. They want Origin to succeed to get more gaming companies on board.
3. They want to sell your personal information that Origin generates to 3rd parties.
4. More $$$$$$$ and Control


----------



## Sir Shfvingle

When did anything say they would sell your personal info? It says multiple times in the EULA that they would not. If they did, bye bye EA, so why would they?


----------



## UkGouki

tbh this dont affect me i dont have the game on pc only on console.. was gonna buy it on pc but after reading all about it origin is just like steam to me. i wont install either steam is the biggest virus a pc can have....


----------



## anotheralex

If there had been warnings in the ea store website - stating how Origin will scan all your files, registries, etc. - I would never have preordered the game or have convinced friends to do the same.
Is it possible to get a refund on this if you bought it through the ea store?


----------



## Gunderman456

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anotheralex*


If there had been warnings in the ea store website - stating how Origin will scan all your files, registries, etc. - I would never have preordered the game or have convinced friends to do the same.
Is it possible to get a refund on this if you bought it through the ea store?


In Germany they are giving the refunds. I`d let them know this where you`re from and see if that works.


----------



## Sir Shfvingle

IN THE US, YOU ACCEPTED THIS WHEN YOU DOWNLOADED ORIGIN. IT WAS RIGHT THERE.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sir Shfvingle*


IN THE US, YOU ACCEPTED THIS WHEN YOU DOWNLOADED ORIGIN. IT WAS RIGHT THERE.










I love that. "The non-personal information...identifies your computer (including the [IP address])..."

I know EA isn't the only company that words that (Google is another that comes to mind), but I just think it's so stupid. It IS personal. It just doesn't have your name on it. I should legally change my name to my computer's IP address and then sue EA.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anotheralex*


Thanks for the link.
I originally thought Origin was just scanning apps that are running while Origin was running, but it scans all your files, even if you installed origin and the games on a separate hard drive!
It even scans through the registry!


Yup. Intrusive is an understatement, to say the least. People here in the United States should rally and request EA to remove the spying from the program or allow BF3 to run without Origin.


----------



## anotheralex

One, I am not from the U.S, and I *preordered* the game from the EA store some time ago because someone on this very forum told me Origin would not be required to run the game.
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
So I want to play the damn game I bought without the damn spyware..


----------



## HWI

What kinds of things do you all have on your computers that you are scared of EA to find? I don't really care if they know I play WoW or watch porn tbh.


----------



## Gunderman456

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anotheralex*


One, I am not from the U.S, and I *preordered* the game from the EA store some time ago because someone on this very forum told me Origin would not be required to run the game.
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
*I did not order the game through Origin!*
So I want to play the damn game I bought without the damn spyware..


I hear you brother, I hear you.


----------



## pjBSOD

This was posted as a comment on Reddit about this issue, very interesting to read.

Quote:



Yay. Conspiracies. So let's see what Origin really does, shall we?
If you hook process monitor onto Origin you will not see Origin scanning anything, independently of how long you use it. So what triggered the OP's screenshot?
Origin on installation will try to find games installed on your harddrive and automatically register them within Origin. It does that in a couple of different ways:

It reads the windows games registry
It looks for games in Program Files
It looks for games in ProgramData (where, for unknown reason the OP's SMS and tax software are storing the data instead of the user profile where that data should go!)
it reads the xfire config if it finds one for games
 If you look at the screenshot closely you will see that it does not actually read any files. Instead it looks for their existence and recursively walks the directory. It does _not_ read any of your files, at least not judging from this screenshot or anything I have found on my machine.
Lastly if you monitor the network traffic that Origin causes you will see that it does not transmit anything of value to EA. So far I have not seen anything bug login credentials being submitted.
But it's always so much more fun to assume that software is inherently evil. You can hook a syscall monitor on any application and you will see that it operates all over the drive. That's not something unique to Origin. Steam will do the same if you click the "add non steam game" button.


----------



## Sir Shfvingle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


What kinds of things do you all have on your computers that you are scared of EA to find? I don't really care if they know I play WoW or watch porn tbh.


For me: this.
For others: they have tax/bank programs, possible uber-personal documents and the like. Not that EA would outright steal it, but I wouldn't want to give it access either.


----------



## KarmaKiller

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896645

I'm interested about Sandboxie, is that effective?


Sandboxie seems to be working. I installed Origin and BF3 with it, and I haven't had any unwanted scans from what I've monitored.


----------



## Buzzin92

So I just ran Origin and did a scan using process manager...

Everything looks normal right up to when I log in via the Origin client, It seemed to be seeking through all my adobe, futuremark and skype files, and the was connecting to the amazon server.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


What kinds of things do you all have on your computers that you are scared of EA to find? I don't really care if they know I play WoW or watch porn tbh.


LoL i called it. I knew the fanboys would give up at some point and just redirect by saying something like, "If you don't have anything to hide they why are you worried?!" If that line of thinking doesn't fly for national security or local police it sure won't fly for a video game.

People don't have to have anything to hide to know that their privacy matters. I'm already annoyed enough about Facebook and Google trying to compile data on me and the 40 million credit offers i get every week to have another company trying to sell all the info they can about me. At least Facebook and Google have an excuse in that they exchange our info for their free service. Origin charges you full price for the game and then turns around and takes info from you that they can sell, further raising the total price of the game, IMO. You pay in cash AND privacy.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gooface*


I gave steam permission to connect to my facebook and I think its cool that they scan my hardware when they do the surveys, tbh I dont have a problem with that at all, unless they are trying to sell me crap by doing that, but I use adblock plus so I never see ads.


1. You gave Steam permission for that. Steam didn't take it upon themselves to sell your info to Facebook

2. Steam scans your hardware. Origin scans your hardDRIVE. One is helpful for gaming demographics. The other is for datamining.

So now can we agree that what Steam does and what Origin does are completely different?


----------



## kiwiasian

No surprise.
Whenever you see statistics similar to "x% of all Dirt 3 buyers use AMD graphics cards" where do you think the numbers come from?

Ignorance is bliss, and people are overreacting now that they are aware.

Why are you all so concerned? Is there something you're trying to hide from EA?


----------



## tsm106

This ain't legal. In the minimum it's against HIPPA to get medical records/info w/o consent and even if you had consent you cannot transfer it online without following EDI rules. Transferring this stuff to a cloud, lol yea that's legal haha. Assuming they can hit any and all info on your system, they could be privy to all sorts of protected info. Someone get us some Fed's involved.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*


No surprise.
Whenever you see statistics similar to "x% of all Dirt 3 buyers use AMD graphics cards" where do you think the numbers come from?

Ignorance is bliss, and people are overreacting now that they are aware.

*Why are you all so concerned? Is there something you're trying to hide from EA?*


*That is not the point!* What happens if they start mining personal information and their servers get hacked? Hmm?


----------



## BlackVenom

Closer to Steam bound, if I must say so myself.


----------



## kiwiasian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


*That is not the point!* What happens if they start mining personal information and their servers get hacked? Hmm?


What if one of your Facebook friend's accounts get hacked and the hacker can access a ton of information about you? What if a friend's email gets hacked? What if your phone is stolen?

There are far too many different scenarios that essentially lead to the same result as the event you mentioned. I must repeat myself again: ignorance is bliss.

Also, to answer your question, I really wouldn't care because there is nothing I am trying to hide from anyone. Some documents, programs, whatever. Not like I'm part of a top secret organization.


----------



## allupinya

SIMPLE SOLUTION:

Dont put yourself online. FOR ANYTHING.

my facebook is not my real name or any revealing photos of my face

same for almost every account i create, my origin and steam accounts arent in my name.

was a problem for my wow accounts when i got hacked and i used a fake name to get it back, but hey that's why they invented photoshop.

i actually JUST got the car put into my name lol.

Orgin is no different than those smart coupon saver keychain cards, except they monitor everything on your personal computer.

With those keychain cards, they track all of your purchases. They know when you have a baby, they know if you have a cat.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*


What if one of your Facebook friend's accounts get hacked and the hacker can access a ton of information about you? What if a friend's email gets hacked? What if your phone is stolen?

There are far too many different scenarios that essentially lead to the same result as the event you mentioned. I must repeat myself again: ignorance is bliss.

Also, to answer your question, I really wouldn't care because there is nothing I am trying to hide from anyone. Some documents, programs, whatever. Not like I'm part of a top secret organization.


Origin is going way beyond what would happen if your friend's Facebook got hacked. Losing your phone...well that's your bad. Everyone knows what could happen if you lose a phone, not everyone is aware what Origin is doing.

You wouldn't care if people knew your Driver License number? Credit card numbers? Medical records? Financial history and bank accounts? Social security number?


----------



## allupinya

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tsm106*


I think you could be a little bit paranoid?


The internet is a public forum for everyone, I choose to remain anonymous and keep my life (for the most part) private.


----------



## Dustin1

I smell a lawsuit.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*


No surprise.
Whenever you see statistics similar to "x% of all Dirt 3 buyers use AMD graphics cards" where do you think the numbers come from?

Ignorance is bliss, and people are overreacting now that they are aware.

Why are you all so concerned? Is there something you're trying to hide from EA?


Yes, ignorance IS bliss but unfortunately the ignorant party is you.

People aren't upset about hardware info, they're upset about personal info.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


Origin is going way beyond what would happen if your friend's Facebook got hacked. Losing your phone...well that's your bad. Everyone knows what could happen if you lose a phone, not everyone is aware what Origin is doing.

You wouldn't care if people knew your Driver License number? Credit card numbers? Medical records? Financial history and bank accounts? Social security number?


Just wanna add that medical and financial data is tightly regulated and PROTECTED. If they went after any of that, and who knows what they could go after, but if they did we're talking serious issues.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tsm106*


Just wanna add that medical and financial data is tightly regulated and PROTECTED. If they went after any of that, and who knows what they could go after, but if they did we're talking serious issues.


I'm not saying that's what Origin is doing, he was saying he has absolutely nothing to hide, which just isn't true.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FuNkDrSpOt*


People don't have to have anything to hide to know that their privacy matters. I'm already annoyed enough about Facebook and Google trying to compile data on me and the 40 million credit offers i get every week to have another company trying to sell all the info they can about me. At least Facebook and Google have an excuse in that they exchange our info for their free service. Origin charges you full price for the game and then turns around and takes info from you that they can sell, further raising the total price of the game, IMO. You pay in cash AND privacy.


Kind of a bad argument. Origin is not charging you for anything. You are mixing the game Battlefield 3 (or any game for that matter) with the service Origin. You pay for the GAME not, the DD platform.

With origin you are not paying anything for the friend lists, chat function, downloading games, community stuff etc. That's the service Origin provides and it doesn't cost anything. The bad thing? Yes they scan some program files and send some marketing info to their own Amazon departments etc.

Wait a sec, that sounds exactly like Facebook or Google.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thingamajig*


I like how the first image is of some tool burning his copy of BF3.

I hate EA, i hate Origin, and BF3 was overhyped. but jesus, if you want to make a point, don't buy the game and THEN burn it -- thats just ******ed. By buying it you've given them what they want, you may as well burn money instead, because thats what you're doing.


Except all the money of it comes as a code that once used is valueless.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


Kind of a bad argument. Origin is not charging you for anything. You are mixing the game Battlefield 3 (or any game for that matter) with the service Origin. You pay for the GAME not, the DD platform.


Sorry but if the DD platform is 100% required to play the game, then it becomes part of the game.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


With origin you are not paying anything for the friend lists, chat function, downloading games, community stuff etc. That's the service Origin provides and it doesn't cost anything. The bad thing? Yes they scan some program files and send some marketing info to their own Amazon departments etc.

Wait a sec, that sounds exactly like Facebook or Google.


Similar to the above. If Origin is REQUIRED to play the game i paid for, then the purchase of the game also includes Origin. So yes, I have already paid for Origin. The cost of Origin is already in the cost of the game. You might have had a case if Origin wasn't required to play the game and was a separate service.

Facebook or Google doesn't charge me $60 for their service.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FuNkDrSpOt*


Sorry but if the DD platform is 100% required to play the game, then it becomes part of the game.

Similar to the above. If Origin is REQUIRED to play the game i paid for, then the purchase of the game also includes Origin. So yes, I have already paid for Origin. The cost of Origin is already in the cost of the game. You might have had a case if Origin wasn't required to play the game and was a separate service.

Facebook or Google doesn't charge me $60 for their service.


Yes that's partly correct but having the client included with the game does not mean that you paid 60$ for it. Regardless you can use Origin for free, and atm BF3 is the only game that forces you to use it.

And again I'd argue that forcing you to use it is kind of similar to FB or Google. Both are so huge that you will be profiled and monitored even if you don't use their services. Facebook for example keeps track of your doings in the sites that have any FB elements, like the like-button. At least with origin you get to accept the EULA before they start getting marketing info out of you.


----------



## magicase

Does Origin only scan the HDD that it's installed in or all HDD in your PC?


----------



## mylilpony

they can use it to sell your personal data like your cellphone/facebook does....that's a cause for concern. why does origin need to know anything about my computer that isn't hardware related?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Shfvingle;15516293*
> Origin is clearly a plot by Hitler to take over the world...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, I reiterate, if you don't like it don't use it. It's just a game. *Since you accept the EULA, they can do whatever is said in it.* If they did it without your permission, THEN it would be illegal. They're doing what they're doing because you said they could.


Not true. It is not a law. It has been shot down in court many many times.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar;15516093*
> Yes that's partly correct but having the client included with the game does not mean that you paid 60$ for it. Regardless you can use Origin for free, and atm BF3 is the only game that forces you to use it.
> 
> And again I'd argue that forcing you to use it is kind of similar to FB or Google. Both are so huge that you will be profiled and monitored even if you don't use their services. Facebook for example keeps track of your doings in the sites that have any FB elements, like the like-button. At least with origin you get to accept the EULA before they start getting marketing info out of you.


No matter how you reword it, the scope of difference between what FB and Google do is too vast to compare to what Origin is doing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Shfvingle;15516293*
> Origin is clearly a plot by Hitler to take over the world...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, I reiterate, if you don't like it don't use it. It's just a game. Since you accept the EULA, they can do whatever is said in it. If they did it without your permission, THEN it would be illegal. They're doing what they're doing because you said they could.


It's a slippery slope dood. Corporations work together many times to push an agenda where you have no option but to agree to terms and conditions that should be illegal in the first place. If EA gets away with it, soon Activision and the others will try. If games can get away with it, soon the OS's will want a crack at it.

EULA's are basically the corporate way to get around federal law. You think it's only a game now but soon it will be the OS you use, your car, your phone, your ISP or cable provider, etc etc.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

It actually surprises me that video gamers aren't more up in arms about this, given that certain devs have been warning us about stuff like this will eventually end up ( see MGS 2, Deus Ex new and old, Assassin's Creed ).


----------



## AMC

Damn I just ordered a hard copy. Great now, I won't be installing this. I will be waiting for a resolution.


----------



## evilDSM

Forgive me, i only read a few replies but this looks more like it's just some anti-cheat measure. As far as i can tell its only scanning for malicious files and its not sending any data back. For those that use AV's are sure after you scan your pc and update with a new virus list that it does not send any data back.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FuNkDrSpOt;15516681*
> It actually surprises me that video gamers aren't more up in arms about this, given that certain devs have been warning us about stuff like this will eventually end up ( see MGS 2, Deus Ex new and old, Assassin's Creed ).


Up in arms about what. No one has even found out what it is sending back. People here make wild assumptions and then run with them because they are popular.

To be honest, i'm happy not getting caught up in the hysteria and hype and instead, having a good, fun game of BF3


----------



## Ktulu

This is awesome. This is how I feel about Origins in my mind, but I have never been able to properly express it.


----------



## xILukasIx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;15516950*
> *No one has even found out what it is sending back.*


Well, you even pointed out the problem yourself!


----------



## SpuddGunn

If you dont agree to the terms of the EULA, then here is a simple solution

Don't install BF3 or Origin
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;15516950*
> Up in arms about what. No one has even found out what it is sending back. People here make wild assumptions and then run with them because they are popular.
> 
> To be honest, i'm happy not getting caught up in the hysteria and hype and instead, having a good, fun game of BF3


Those people will in all probability defend companies like Valve and Apple for doing the same thing too


----------



## Tippy

Well have fun revolting, raging, cancelling your orders or sitting on your copy.

I'll just be over here enjoying the game, nothing too important running on gaming PC anyway.


----------



## SgtBigRig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot;15501844*
> Jesus Christ.
> 
> The game in itself isn't bad. Origin is.


that's all good and fine but you cant run the game without origin

ok after 30 min of reading (even then i could get through every page) It looks like EA has peed in the proverbial bowl of cornflakes overthere. I hope they intend on fixing this soon. I dont own BF3 Nvida and its insane amount of driver issues and TDR put a halt to it, but this may be the final nail in the coffin. For my personal purchase anyway.


----------



## fashric

Its hilarious and embarrassing how easily seemingly intelligent people will jump on to bandwagons if it pushes the right buttons. How many of you have actually seen first hand what Origin does? Its very simple to do and if you understand what you are looking at you will see it doesn't do anything different to what most other installed applications do. Don't let your ignorance make a fool of you by believing sensationalist rubbish on the internet, go and check for yourself its not hard. Also to the person who believes that Facebook and Google collect less information well you need a big reality check.


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fashric;15517354*
> Its hilarious and embarrassing how easily seemingly intelligent people will jump on to bandwagons if it pushes the right buttons. How many of you have actually seen first hand what Origin does? Its very simple to do and if you understand what you are looking at you will see it doesn't do anything different to what most other installed applications do. Don't let your ignorance make a fool of you by believing sensationalist rubbish on the internet go a check for yourself its not hard. Also to the person who believes that Facebook and Google collect less information well you need a big reality check.


Remember commas


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evilDSM;15516939*
> Forgive me, i only read a few replies but this looks more like it's just some anti-cheat measure. As far as i can tell its only scanning for malicious files and its not sending any data back. For those that use AV's are sure after you scan your pc and update with a new virus list that it does not send any data back.


why was it scanning people's financials?


----------



## Brutuz

Edit: Misunderstood quote.


----------



## ambusher

that's exactly why i didn't buy the game, origin spyware and battlelog


----------



## ENTERPRISE

*Lets keep away from political references please.*


----------



## GodWarner

This is an interesting issue. Whilst I agree that the way Origin is handling our data is inethical, I dont see why this is causing such alarm. It is merely a reflection of society today and to suddenly jump on this debate with personal vendatta seems a waste of energy.

Anyone whose read the works of George Orwell will see that all the things he speaks about (surveillance, control etc) are common place today and instead of isolating the debate to the issue of Origin should put it into perspective.

I 100% agree with the guys in Germany and at OCN who are resisting in whatever way they can .....but come on guys you need to pick your battles and look at the bigger picture.

And to the guys who are "waiting" to see how this situation develops....what are you waiting for? Dont waste your time here, start your own campaign against it.


----------



## meetajhu

This is bogus. Resource monitor in Windows Task manager is enough to show whats running. Origin is safe. Germans are making a scene about it.


----------



## HeWhoDared

I wonder/hope if EA will come out with a statement regarding this.


----------



## GodWarner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meetajhu;15517775*
> This is bogus. Resource monitor in Windows Task manager is enough to show whats running. Origin is safe. Germans are making a scene about it.


I think you missed the point which many are getting at. Its not only data "saftey" its a matter of principle.


----------



## Shaded War

Time to download peer blocker again.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *consume;15501772*
> talk about going overboard...


Going overboard? Are you serious? It was literally accessing someone's tax information and looking for other data? That is a SERIOUS breach of my privacy as a user, major.

This is a big part of the reason why I will never use Origin, I have about zero trust of EA.


----------



## Weasel555

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Perry;15517836*


^this.

Running Origin, Running Battlefield 3. This is a non-issue for me. Scan my data all you want, if EA really wants to know what kind of Porn I look at then have at it.


----------



## cook

What happened to the right to privacy? I guess you give it up by participating in an EA/Origin game. Maybe they are looking for "Anonymous Hactivists" because surely they are all going to be playing bf3. Either way, it would seem fitting for EA to offer a statement of why they are scrounging around customers personal belongings.


----------



## Jaffa Cakes!

Would like to know why Origin is currently looking through all my Adobe CS5 program files... wonder what it'll be next...

EDIT: Oh, Skype and Last.fm now!


----------



## Tralala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discipline;15501808*
> I read about this. I wonder if steam scans all my computer data. . .


who is the girl in your sig? can I has?


----------



## haziqk10

Do I need to install Origin if I buy the DVD version??


----------



## Jaffa Cakes!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haziqk10;15518160*
> Do I need to install Origin if I buy the DVD version??


Yes.


----------



## SpuddGunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haziqk10;15518160*
> Do I need to install Origin if I buy the DVD version??


Yes you do, same way you need to have Steam installed for anything from Valve


----------



## haziqk10

Damn...my copy arrived tomorrow. If I just play campaign do I need to use Origin??


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haziqk10;15518200*
> Damn...my copy arrived tomorrow. If I just play campaign do I need to use Origin??


You need Origin for the game. Regardless of Campaign or not


----------



## haziqk10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;15518211*
> You need Origin for the game. Regardless of Campaign or not


Thank for the quick reply...I am returning the game back after it arrived tomorrow.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haziqk10;15518254*
> Thank for the quick reply...I am returning the game back after it arrived tomorrow.


That choice is up to you









You are quite welcome!


----------



## Citra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaffa Cakes!;15518069*
> Would like to know why Origin is currently looking through all my Adobe CS5 program files... wonder what it'll be next...
> 
> EDIT: Oh, Skype and Last.fm now!


How do I check?









Sent from my HTC EVO 3D with Tapatalk


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Citra;15518282*
> How do I check?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC EVO 3D with Tapatalk


You'll need to download Process Monitor


----------



## Deathclaw

absolutely agree that origin needs to be destroyed-maliciously


----------



## jprovido

if they only sold BF3 at steam I would've gotten it at retail.


----------



## lordikon

Sadly this whole Origin thing has pushed me to decide on getting the console version instead (that and the fact one of my 8800GTSs finally croaked, leaving me with a single 4-year old GPU, and I'm waiting until 7xxx series to upgrade). That being said, which is better the PS3 or 360 version?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou;15505490*
> This is probably Origin scanning the video hardware in registry.


You don't need to access the registry to query what hardware is running, Windows has processes for that. There aren't many reasons to scan the registry. Installers and uninstallers don't even need to scan through it like that.


----------



## tx-jose

All their gunna find if BF and porn on mine if they search through it. Im not worried as I DONT do financial stuff on my PC for THIS VERY REASON.

Ok i buy stuff online and thats about it lol All they are going to see is a bunch of STEAM purchases lol


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian;15518427*
> ...Who in the right mind puts sensitive data on their main PC?


Thank you for letting us know that you can afford more than one PC for yourself.

Not everybody has PC's around the house, one for gaming, one for web browsing, one for online purchases, and another for personal data. How's that, good enough for you ? The thing is we are living in tough economic times and people who have many PC's around the house that they can call their own (and not from another member of the family) are a minority.

Besides, that is beyond the main point here. Origin has absolutely no need to scan you registry or your personal folders, no matter if you think you can personally afford to let everybody see what you've got, this is a matter of principle and of being reasonable. A game client has no objective need to do what Origin is doing, and you can't dodge important problems like this by just using a different PC. So, if Origin were to eventually mess with Steam, would you propose getting a second gaming PC, one for Origin, one for Steam ?


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *consume;15501772*
> talk about going overboard...


Talk about someone that at least tries to make a difference, you mean.


----------



## Stuuut

Whats new about this??


----------



## Mr_Torch

Didn't Blizzard get busted for doing this sometime back?
If I remember right, they made them stop.


----------



## Deacon

I'v seen some replies here that worries me, people don't seem to understand what is ethically right and whats wrong, nor do they seem to know what rights they have, thats quite disturbing.
It doesn't matter if you have something to hide or not, its ethically wrong to invade your privacy like this, its also against the law in most countries, even if EA says it is in the Eula, its still wrong in many ways, and its not valid unless the End User fully understands whats is actually being said in the Eula.

Let me give you a example:

Your playing with a ball and that ball falls in your neighbor house/yard, its both illegal and ethically wrong to go fetch that ball without the neighbor knowing/consent, plus lets say you go in whiteout asking and you look at the kitchen window, and your neighbor is having sex, or simply cooking.

The analogy I just made its in essence the same EA is doing here, it doesn't matter if you have or have not something to hide, its still wrong, in todays world privacy is very important as we barely have any, and we all should know that, and thats why the Germans are so pissed about it and they are right.

Further more, as I said before Microsoft got into an Anti-Trust law suit, for bundling IE with Windows, what EA is doing here is actually worse, since they are clearly forcing you to install a program and not giving you the option of not using it.


----------



## xFALL3Nx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deacon;15519255*
> I'v seen some replies here that worries me, people don't seem to understand what is ethically right and whats wrong, nor do they seem to know what rights they have, thats quite disturbing.


Good for the German people, hats off. More people need to stand up and say no. Now i wonder whats monitoring my machine...

How it used to be;

power--->







<---- people

How it is now;

the people--->







<---power


----------



## SpuddGunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deacon;15519255*
> I'v seen some replies here that worries me, people don't seem to understand what is ethically right and whats wrong, nor do they seem to know what rights they have, thats quite disturbing.
> It doesn't matter if you have something to hide or not, its ethically wrong to invade your privacy like this, its also against the law in most countries, even if EA says it is in the Eula, its still wrong in many ways, *and its not valid unless the End User fully understands whats is actually being said in the Eula.*
> Let me give you a example:
> 
> Your playing with a ball and that ball falls in your neighbor house/yard, its both illegal and ethically wrong to go fetch that ball without the neighbor knowing/consent, plus lets say you go in whiteout asking and you look at the kitchen window, and your neighbor is having sex, or simply cooking.
> 
> The analogy I just made its in essence the same EA is doing here, it doesn't matter if you have or have not something to hide, its still wrong, in todays world privacy is very important as we barely have any, and we all should know that, and thats why the Germans are so pissed about it and they are right.
> 
> Further more, as I said before Microsoft got into an Anti-Trust law suit, for bundling IE with Windows, *what EA is doing here is actually worse, since they are clearly forcing you to install a program and not giving you the option of not using it*.


By ticking the box or Accepting the terms you of the EULA when installing software you are stating that you have read and understand the terms. Most people dont bother to read them, now who's fault is that? Certainly not the publisher/developers, the fault lies with the consumer.

They aren't forcing you, you either use Origin or you dont. Its the consumers choice. You dont have to use it.


----------



## AMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpuddGunn;15519996*
> By ticking the box or Accepting the terms you of the EULA when installing software you are stating that you have read and understand the terms. Most people dont bother to read them, now who's fault is that? Certainly not the publisher/developers, the fault lies with the consumer.
> 
> They aren't forcing you, you either use Origin or you dont. Its the consumers choice. You dont have to use it.


You don't understand the point. They can not legally (depending on the country) put what ever they want in the ToS and be legally binding. By your logic, their ToS could say to kill someone and they would not be at fault.

The government put in rules to protect the people, and this may be breaching one of them.


----------



## Porthios

This has nothing to do with BF3, and everything to do with Origin. Though both are currently synonymous. Stupid EA. Should have released the damn game on Steam.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porthios;15520286*
> This has nothing to do with BF3, and everything to do with Origin. Though both are currently synonymous. Stupid EA. Should have released the damn game on Steam.


The issue still lies with consumers needing Origin to play BF3; therefore, they see them as being grouped together.


----------



## anotheralex

Do you sign the *EULA for Origin* when you buy a *physical copy of BF3* from BestBuy and other stores?
*No*. So why the hell should the purchaser be forced to use Origin.

Do you sign the *EULA for Origin* when buying BF3 from the online EA store *before Origin became the store front*?
I certainly did *no*t.

I guarantee that if you stand in front of the BF3 stand in Bestbuy telling people who wants to purchase the game, that they will have to install Origin and that it will scan you hard drives whether you like it or not, I guarantee no one will grab a single copy of the game, unless they are deaf or or can't speak the language.


----------



## Deacon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpuddGunn;15519996*
> By ticking the box or Accepting the terms you of the EULA when installing software you are stating that you have read and understand the terms. Most people dont bother to read them, now who's fault is that? Certainly not the publisher/developers, the fault lies with the consumer.
> 
> They aren't forcing you, you either use Origin or you dont. Its the consumers choice. You dont have to use it.


As stated you can't put anything you want in your Eula and getaway with it, also aren't we forgetting something important here, some ppl are arguing that if you don't like it don't buy it, BUT do remind me at what point is the EULA presented?
Ow yeah thats right way after you buy it and when you are installing it.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*


What if one of your Facebook friend's accounts get hacked and the hacker can access a ton of information about you? What if a friend's email gets hacked? What if your phone is stolen?

There are far too many different scenarios that essentially lead to the same result as the event you mentioned. I must repeat myself again: ignorance is bliss.

Also, to answer your question, I really wouldn't care because there is nothing I am trying to hide from anyone. Some documents, programs, whatever. Not like I'm part of a top secret organization.


That's ironic as you are clearly the ignorant one. I think you should remove the lock on your front door if you don't think privacy is important.

Oh and BTW, the hardware usage data from DiRT 3 comes from those who opted in on Steam.


----------



## Tomdarkness

The screenshot regarding the tax program is incorrectly interpreted. Process Monitor clearly shows it never requests read access to the file. Check the "Desired Access" in the detail column for the CreateFile operations. It only requests the file's attributes (i.e read only, etc.), ACL and DACL for the file (who can read/write to it and who owns the file). At no point does it attempt to read what the file contains as it never requests Generic Read or Read Data access which would be needed to read the data from the file.


----------



## Faster_is_better

 crazy, I like it.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xFALL3Nx;15519893*
> Good for the German people, hats off. More people need to stand up and say no. Now i wonder whats monitoring my machine...
> 
> How it used to be;
> 
> power--->
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <---- people
> 
> How it is now;
> 
> the people--->
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <---power


I think you need a history lesson...


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tomdarkness*


The screenshot regarding the tax program is incorrectly interpreted. Process Monitor clearly shows it never requests read access to the file. Check the "Desired Access" in the detail column for the CreateFile operations.* It only requests the file's attributes (i.e read only, etc.), ACL and DACL for the file (who can read/write to it and who owns the file). *At no point does it attempt to read what the file contains as it never requests Generic Read or Read Data access which would be needed to read the data from the file.


And why on earth would Origin *need* to do that ? That's it, there is no valid reason. There is no valid reason for Origin to know who owns the files or folders or who can read or write to them. And there is also no valid reason why Origin scans your folders *BEFORE* you accept the EULA - at the most it could ask the system if there is enough free space for the install and query if your system specs allow the program to be installed - I don't think CPU-Z goes around checking who owns files in your PC to tell you that.


----------



## allikat

Time for a few facts it seems.
Steam *does* scan your machine, hardware and software, but only *IF* you choose to participate in the survey. You can decline and still have a fully functional install, play online etc.

Origin scans your machine, without asking, including personal files. We don't quite know what exact data it sends back, but it's certainly unpleasant to see which areas of your hard-drive it explores. You cannot opt out of this.

EULA are NOT legally binding in many nations, especially where the terms so enclosed contravene any laws in place. The EU has a privacy right enshrined in law, and no contract (which is what a EULA is) can require you to break the law.

What Origin is doing may well be legal in the US, (I'd be shocked if EA let it out the door if it wasn't) but it may well be highly illegal in other nations. I will wait and see.


----------



## Kleingetier

UPDATE:

Many more news sources picked up the topic in Germany.
Here are some of the headlines and where to find them:
Quote:



*Zeit Online: "Gamers feel monitored by Electronic Arts*"
"The Platform Origin spies out users of EA games. The company changed their ToS, but not their policy. Privacy groups investigate."

German Source // Google-Translated Source
("Die Zeit" is a wellknown German liberal weekly newspaper)
*
Focus.de: "Data kraken Origin: Gamers are in arms about Battlefield 3"*
The online gaming and distribution platform Origin of the action video game "Battlefield 3" makes gamers to on the barricades."

German Source // Google-Translated Source
("Focus" is a weekly news magazine similar to "Der Spiegel" who also presented an article online)

*n-tv: "EA infuriates gamers: Battlefield 3 in espionage mode"*
"The highly anticipated video game "Battlefield 3" comes under tremendous attack.. PC gamers are forced to install software that doesn't only scan the computer for pirated games, but also spies out personal information. Additionally, publisher Electronic Arts shoots themselves in the foot with the termins of use."

German Source // Google-Translated Source
(n-tv is a German tv channel with focus on news and information)
_A TV appearance is also believed to air soon_

*The petition to stop selling Battlefield 3*
..in Germany (as long as the ToS of Origin won't change and interfere with the law) reached over 7000 supporters!








German Source

*Amazon ratings went down even more*
By now, over 2500 people gave Battlefield 3 a rating on Amazon. 95% gave it a bad score! The average is now as low as possible, 1 star!
Amazon continues to accept returns of used and opened copies, even with taken keys, as well.









German Reviews // Google-Translated Source

*Privacy groups had an eye on EA for some time already*
The protest website theorigin.de claims that privacy groups had EA on their sights for some time and the controlling authority prepares a questionary for EA.
*
EA responded but another new EULA doesn't change critical parts at all.*
The new EULA is shorter than the old version but keeps its critical paragraphs and the Origin client didn't update to change it's behaviour as well.
EA Germanys statement can be found here:
German Source // Google-Translated Source


Thank you for the attention. OP updated as well.


----------



## conzilla

In my general experience the people who worry about other people stealing from them are theives. The people who worry about privicy have somthing to hide. I have nothing to hide.
Anyone ever read the xbox kinects agreement they can look into your house lol.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *conzilla*


In my general experience the people who worry about other people stealing from them are theives.* The people who worry about privicy have somthing to hide. I have nothing to hide.*
Anyone ever read the xbox kinects agreement they can look into your house lol.


Bull. Total and complete bull. People who care about privacy care about their rights.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kleingetier*


UPDATE:

Many more news sources picked up the topic in Germany.
Here are some of the headlines and where to find them:

Thank you for the attention. OP updated as well.


At this point I'm just going to have to say that it's mostly sensationalism.

for example this one:

Quote:



PC gamers are forced to install software that doesn't only scan the computer for pirated games, but also spies out personal information.


I mean wha? seriously, what?


----------



## Kleingetier

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Alatar*   At this point I'm just going to have to say that it's mostly sensationalism.

for example this one:

Quote: 
  PC gamers are forced to install software that doesn't only scan the computer for pirated games, but also spies out personal information.  
I mean wha? seriously, what?  
Isn't this how most of the news work these days?
And I hope you didn't blame me, I'm only the translator.
I can clearly see your point, although this is a serious matter.

TV report in the news at 20pm, prime time (RTL 2):
  
 You Tube


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


At this point I'm just going to have to say that it's mostly sensationalism.

for example this one:

I mean wha? seriously, what?


Hey, I don't want all the details of your information, but can you provide me with scanned copies of: deeds, bank records, family history including their legal records, copies of your previous bills - including telephone, cell, electric, utilities, cable, satellite, water; please also provide your medical records and history, the names of the people you most closely associate with, pictures of you, your family and friends, DMV records, a copy of your birth certificate, social security card, and please define your voting habits based solely on preference.

While I don't want to get the details out of all that, I just want to be sure you understand, that - I'm only interested in knowing all of this for purposes which I cannot disclaim nor expose. I can't say I won't sell any of the information to a 3rd party, but I can say that I may possibly link the information with other services you may be a part of, without your knowledge or consent.

So - Like you would ever agree to do any of that right, so why would you agree to let EA do something similar? Because of a game?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kleingetier*


Isn't this how most of the news work these days?
And I hope you didn't blame me, I'm only the translator.
I can clearly see your point, although this is a serious matter.


Blaming the news sites mostly.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Hey, I don't want all the details of your information, but can you provide me with scanned copies of: deeds, bank records, family history including their legal records, copies of your previous bills - including telephone, cell, electric, utilities, cable, satellite, water; please also provide your medical records and history, the names of the people you most closely associate with, pictures of you, your family and friends, DMV records, a copy of your birth certificate, social security card, and please define your voting habits based solely on preference.

While I don't want to get the details out of all that, I just want to be sure you understand, that - I'm only interested in knowing all of this for purposes which I cannot disclaim nor expose. I can't say I won't sell any of the information to a 3rd party, but I can say that I may possibly link the information with other services you may be a part of, without your knowledge or consent.

So - Like you would ever agree to do any of that right, so why would you agree to let EA do something similar? Because of a game?


No I would not. And no I do not want to give that info. But that isn't the point. My point is that the news report just flat out lied in their article unless they have some evidence that we don't have access to.

Yes what EA is doing with Origin is bad, but all this sensationalism is making it look 100x worse than it really is. In reality we should be boycotting Google and Facebook for all their datamining, not a small gaming company whose DD client just happens to check some program files for marketing purposes. Even their EULA states that they reserve the right to collect nonpersonally identifiable data, and that it will not be sold to 3rd parties. They will collect nonpersonal data that will be used in marketing purposes within EA owned services and sites.

Now if you have proof to that states otherwise I'd be glad to listen.


----------



## i7monkey

So many people *don't even get it*.

Yes, I'm talking about the "I'VE GOT NUTHIN TO HYDE BRO, SO I DON'T CARE!" type people.

I can't believe people still use this argument, that since they have 'nothing to hide' they're fine with everyone raping and pillaging every aspect of lives, from what they do with their computers, where they are at any given minute (facebook, twitter, iphones), as well as having their genitals molested by airport security.

If you guys have "nothing to hide" then why not strap a video camera to you at all times and stream it online for the world to see? What's that, it's makes you uncomfortable and violates your privacy??? Yeah, just like I thought


----------



## murrycrane

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tomdarkness*


The screenshot regarding the tax program is incorrectly interpreted. Process Monitor clearly shows it never requests read access to the file. Check the "Desired Access" in the detail column for the CreateFile operations. It only requests the file's attributes (i.e read only, etc.), ACL and DACL for the file (who can read/write to it and who owns the file). At no point does it attempt to read what the file contains as it never requests Generic Read or Read Data access which would be needed to read the data from the file.


Actually this is sometimes enough information, depending on the software as you can see here where Origin is scanning folders with medical files and chat protocols:

http://youtu.be/6lGUOFjMuQA

What software is installed and if it is in active usage can reveal very much about a user. If you have Photoshop installed you are probably interested in graphics design. If you have CAD Software installed you are perhaps interested in engineering. If you have software for diabetics installed to log blood sugar levels you are probably diabetic. There is no need to actually open the file and check your blood sugar level of a specific day. The information that the software is on your computer and is in active use is enough.

EA admitted in the original version of the German EULA that it will collect information about "Software" and "Software Usage" for marketing purposes - connected to your personal profile. They would only anonymize the information if shared with third party companies.

So you can clearly see why the software is looking for the file attributes - that's the "Software Usage" part.


----------



## .:hybrid:.

Dear EA

How to make a list of installed programs, scan this in the registry.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\ CurrentVersion\\Uninstall
Copy the keys 'display name'
Send that list to the server

Done, you don't need to manually scan my files thanks.


----------



## conzilla

There was a time when i would of screamed from the top of my lungs about this kind of stuff. But the fact of the matter is it does no good because others wont. People just like to complain about everything and cry because they want more and want to give less. When it comes down to do somthing no one does anything. Change takes action not harsh words on a forum. People cry about the goverment but wont vote. You know why EA is doing this because they can and know you will still buy their game and as much content as they put out. In the end most people would let them stick a probe up their butts and smile the whole time. If iam wrong show me what you have done to rectify this great travesty. Link me your petiton ill sign. Want me to write my congressman show me your letter first and ill have one mailed in the morning. You wont because you have done nothing except give EA your money. Iam 36 years old and iam finally at a point where i believe big bussines will do what they want. Look at the deregulation of the stockmarket and what happend we bailed everyone out and when they raised out credit card rates we appointed them to the goverments highest financial positions.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


Blaming the news sites mostly.

No I would not. And no I do not want to give that info. But that isn't the point. My point is that the news report just flat out lied in their article unless they have some evidence that we don't have access to.

Yes what EA is doing with Origin is bad, but all this sensationalism is making it look 100x worse than it really is. In reality we should be boycotting Google and Facebook for all their datamining, not a small gaming company whose DD client just happens to check some program files for marketing purposes. Even their EULA states that they reserve the right to collect nonpersonally identifiable data, and that it will not be sold to 3rd parties. They will collect nonpersonal data that will be used in marketing purposes within EA owned services and sites.

Now if you have proof to that states otherwise I'd be glad to listen.


You actually have no idea what they're ultimately scanning for/against, where that information will/will not be used, and who/who doesn't get the information.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


You actually have no idea what they're ultimately scanning for/against, where that information will/will not be used, and who/who doesn't get the information.


I'm sorry but I don't support the idea of people or corporations being guilty until proven innocent.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


I'm sorry but I don't support the idea of people or corporations being guilty until proven innocent.


You just don't get it, do you? It's a privacy issue, not a "what are they doing with my data issue". They shouldn't be touching or scanning your system in the first place.

Fact, *no amount of privacy violation is acceptable*, and if you let companies chip away at your freedoms like this they'll wanna get away with anything.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *i7monkey*


You just don't get it, do you? It's a privacy issue, not a "what are they doing with my data issue". They shouldn't be touching or scanning your system in the first place.

Fact, *no amount of privacy violation is acceptable*, and if you let companies chip away at your freedoms like this they'll wanna get away with anything.


What you do't get that if that's what you wanted you should have acted 15 years ago. The level of snooping that Origin does is not really anything special and there are some corporations that don't even give you a chance of declining from being mined.

And again because it's already the norm I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.

At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.

I'm against privacy violations and giving corporations more power but what I do not like is selective and sensational news reporting.


----------



## murrycrane

Quote:



I'm sorry but I don't support the idea of people or corporations being guilty until proven innocent.


I think you are mistaken a little bit here. EA clearly stated in the German EULA what information they collect and what they are using it for.

The culprit admitted his guilt already. The original EULA clearly states that they are gathering information about "Software" and "Software Usage" on your computer - connect this information to your personal profile and use it for marketing purposes and only anonymize it when shared with third party.

Here is the original text in German:

"Du gestattest EA und seinen Partnern das Sammeln, Nutzen, Speichern und Ãœbertragen von technischen und verwandten Informationen, die deinen Computer (einschlieÃŸlich IP-Adresse), dein Betriebssystem, deine Nutzung der Anwendung (einschlieÃŸlich erfolgreicher Installation und/oder Deinstallation), Software, Software-Nutzung und deine Hardware-Peripherie identifizieren, um die Bereitstellung von Software-Updates, dynamischen Inhalten, ProduktunterstÃ¼tzung und anderen Diensten, einschlieÃŸlich Online-Diensten, zu erleichtern. EA kann diese Daten ebenfalls in Verbindung mit personenbezogenen Informationen zu Marketingzwecken und zur Verbesserung seiner Produkte und Dienste nutzen. Des Weiteren kÃ¶nnen wir diese Daten in einer Form, die keine persÃ¶nliche Identifizierung ermÃ¶glicht, an uns verpflichtete Drittunternehmen weitergeben. "

Here a rough translation:

""You agree that EA and its partners collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including IP address), your operating system, your use of the application (including the installation and / or removal) identify *software, software usage* and your hardware peripherals, to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamic content, product support and other services including online services.* EA, can also use this data in connection with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve its products and services.* We can provide this information to third companies in a form that does not allow for personal identification.

Note that first you agree to the gathering of information about the installed application and IN ADDITION TO THIS to the gathering of information about "Software" and "Software Usage". This means they also gather information about third party software. (Also note that they admit to store this infomation in a personalized form and not anonymized.) This confirms exactly with the evidence provided for example in this video here:

http://youtu.be/6lGUOFjMuQA

Origin scans the "Software" and checks the file attributes and so gains information to "Software Usage". The software does exactly what Origin states in the EULA.

Origin has rewritten the EULA today and has tried to hide what it previously confirmed so bluntly - but they have not changed the software.

By the way: Your statement that other companies are doing the same is simply false. Steam for example does stay in its folders and does no such thing. Nor does any other software on my harddrive. I checked for myself using "Process Monitor".


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


*(A)*And again because it's already the norm I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.

*(B)*At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.


Ok; so -

*(A)* - What does EA want to do, sell me a better Outlook, Word and Excel client? What does that have to do with anything EA offers me other than exclusive manuals in PDF format? What about Nero, TuneUp Utilities, or any of the other random software scanned/accessed that has nothing to do with anything EA would be marketing to me? Seriously - you're either blind or just trying to argue (_albeit stating your own concern for the opposition's view on the argument, because it's a shallow bid to make attempts at bringing the ball into your own argument_).

*(B)* You talk of sensationalism, yet you quip internet connections as being the true culprit of the problem and issue, again as a snide comment to further your own argument - _when_ - it has _no bearing_ on the argument.


----------



## Peroxide

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thingamajig*


I like how the first image is of some tool burning his copy of BF3.

I hate EA, i hate Origin, and BF3 was overhyped. but jesus, if you want to make a point, don't buy the game and THEN burn it -- thats just ******ed. By buying it you've given them what they want, you may as well burn money instead, because thats what you're doing.


I would imagine it was most likely a pre-order, not to mention, you typically don't get to read the EULA until installation or account creation so he would have had to open the game. Not many stores accept returns of software that have single use codes in them either.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *homestyle*


Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.

Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.

Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.


A lot of things do, but that doesn't give them the right to walk into your home and start going through your files as Origin is doing with your computer.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *murrycrane*


I think you are mistaken a little bit here. EA clearly stated in the German EULA what information they collect and what they are using it for.


I basically simplified the thing, of course there are going to be some minor flaws, but I did not want to go into minute details.

Also I'm not familiar with the German EULA, and was going by the American version.

Quote:



The culprit admitted his guilt already. The original EULA clearly states that they are gathering information about "Software" and "Software Usage" on your computer - connect this information to your personal profile and use it for marketing purposes and only anonymize it when shared with third party.

Here is the original text in German:

"Du gestattest EA und seinen Partnern das Sammeln, Nutzen, Speichern und Ãœbertragen von technischen und verwandten Informationen, die deinen Computer (einschlieÃŸlich IP-Adresse), dein Betriebssystem, deine Nutzung der Anwendung (einschlieÃŸlich erfolgreicher Installation und/oder Deinstallation), Software, Software-Nutzung und deine Hardware-Peripherie identifizieren, um die Bereitstellung von Software-Updates, dynamischen Inhalten, ProduktunterstÃ¼tzung und anderen Diensten, einschlieÃŸlich Online-Diensten, zu erleichtern. EA kann diese Daten ebenfalls in Verbindung mit personenbezogenen Informationen zu Marketingzwecken und zur Verbesserung seiner Produkte und Dienste nutzen. Des Weiteren kÃ¶nnen wir diese Daten in einer Form, die keine persÃ¶nliche Identifizierung ermÃ¶glicht, an uns verpflichtete Drittunternehmen weitergeben. "

Here a rough translation:

""You agree that EA and its partners collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including IP address), your operating system, your use of the application (including the installation and / or removal) identify *software, software usage* and your hardware peripherals, to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamic content, product support and other services including online services.* EA, can also use this data in connection with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve its products and services.* We can provide this information to third companies in a form that does not allow for personal identification.

Note that first you agree to the gathering of information about the installed application and IN ADDITION TO THIS to the gathering of information about "Software" and "Software Usage". This means they also gather information about third party software. (Also note that they admit to store this infomation in a personalized form and not anonymized.) This confirms exactly with the evidence provided for example in this video here:

http://youtu.be/6lGUOFjMuQA

Origin scans the "Software" and checks the file attributes and so gains information to "Software Usage". The software does exactly what Origin states in the EULA.

Origin has rewritten the EULA today and has tried to hide what it previously confirmed so bluntly - but they have not changed the software.


Yeah I know. That's what I was getting at. It's doing exactly what it says, it pretty much checks what software you use and some other tidbits of info for marketing purposes. This is entirely different than what the news sources are reporting though, and what they are trying to do is scare people into going against EA.

It is simply not appropriate reporting to say that EA scans for pirated games specifically or is interested in your personal tax documents. Those things are false, and they should not be presented in the media as truth since people seem to have an odd tendency of trusting the media much more than anything.

Right now the gaming media is going all out on everything they can get on Origin because it's a hot subject, that gives everyone a badly formed image about the real proportions of the issues at hand.

There is also no proof of them selling or transmitting the info they gather to companies outside of EA, which was one of the things people were accusing EA of.

Quote:



By the way: Your statement that other companies are doing the same is simply false. Steam for example does stay in its folders and does no such thing. Nor does any other software on my harddrive. I checked for myself using "Process Monitor".


I'm not talking about steam or any other minor player. (though I'd love to read steam's EULA etc. to see what that entails). What I was getting at was the big corporations like Google or Facebook doing much worse data gathering than Origin is doing here. And yet again we have to remember that Origin isn't putting itself on every web page out there and is actually giving you a choice: use it or decline from using it.

E:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Ok; so -

*(A)* - What does EA want to do, sell me a better Outlook, Word and Excel client? What does that have to do with anything EA offers me other than exclusive manuals in PDF format? What about Nero, TuneUp Utilities, or any of the other random software scanned/accessed that has nothing to do with anything EA would be marketing to me? Seriously - you're either blind or just trying to argue (_albeit stating your own concern for the opposition's view on the argument, because it's a shallow bid to make attempts at bringing the ball into your own argument_).


it's actually quite simple. If EA detects that you run let's say Excel on your computer they can put ads of other microsoft products for example on their Amazon page.

The same thing as google monitoring the sites you go to and giving you ads that are about the stuff you browse.

Quote:



*(B)* You talk of sensationalism, yet you quip internet connections as being the true culprit of the problem and issue, again as a snide comment to further your own argument - _when_ - it has _no bearing_ on the argument.


I was referring to the current state of selling data and mining customers for marketing data with that part of my post. What I meant by it is that, the current situation is what it is, kind of bad if you ask me. And that this has been going on for a long time.

And with that in mind I'm asking why is EA getting all the hate about this.


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## i7monkey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


What you do't get that if that's what you wanted you should have acted 15 years ago. The level of snooping that Origin does is not really anything special


That's not the point whether they do anything special or not, they have no right to access our stuff in the first place. They are violating people's privacy and this debate should be about *privacy violation* period, *NOT* "_*how much*_ privacy violation is acceptable".

It's like the government installing a camera in your street and you saying, "ehh...it's only a camera, I've got nothing to hide anyway, I'm an upstanding citizen. What are they gonna do with that data anyway? It's got no real data on me anyway, it doesn't see what I'm doing".

And if everyone's ok with that privacy violation then 3 years later they're gonna want to install a camera *in front* of your house, and people will still say, "It's only a camera, it doesn't see what I'm doing anyway, it only sees me when I come in and out of my house, no biggie".

A few years later they're gonna induct laws that grant police to search your house any time they want in the interest of "national security" and "anti-terrorism" and ignorant people are gonna continue to say "It's no big deal, I'm an law-abiding citizen and I've got nothing to hide anyway".

etc...etc.....

See what I'm getting at? They have no right to violate privacy in the first place and it's a slippery slope that we can't allow to happen.

Quote:



and there are some corporations that don't even give you a chance of declining from being mined.


And those companies and their products should be boycotted too.

Quote:



*And again because it's already the norm* I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.


That's the problem, that's it gotten to the point where it's becoming the norm. Too many people are bending over for these companies so naturally these companies are gonna get away with as much as they can.

By being lazy and ignorant people have let these companies get away with these things. If people stood up for their rights we'd be getting products that wouldn't violate privacy in the first place.

Quote:



At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.


This is by far the most over-used and illogical argument used in these debates. It makes no sense.

It's like car companies wanting people's blood samples, finger prints, hair samples, and all their personal details before they can sell them a car and people like YOU saying, "Well, if you don't want to give your blood, hair, fingerprints, tax information, financial records, how much money you make and your social insurance number to them, then it's simple, don't buy a car".

Don't you see how ******ed your argument is? Just because they offer a service doesn't mean they get to rape and pillage every nook and cranny of your life.

Quote:



I'm against privacy violations and giving corporations more power


You're not against it judging by your posts.

Quote:



but what I do not like is selective and sensational news reporting.


I like consistency myself but it still doesn't make your arguments any more logical. It's a privacy issue, period. No amount privacy violation is acceptable and people should stand up for their rights, not go along with whatever these companies want.

If we bend over for a company like EA when it comes to Origin, they and every other service and company will take us for whatever we've got in the future. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.


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## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alatar*


(A)It's actually quite simple. If EA detects that you run let's say Excel on your computer they can put ads of other microsoft products for example on their Amazon page.

The same thing as google monitoring the sites you go to and giving you ads that are about the stuff you browse.

(B)I was referring to the current state of selling data and mining customers for marketing data with that part of my post. What I meant by it is that, the current situation is what it is, kind of bad if you ask me. And that this has been going on for a long time.

And with that in mind I'm asking why is EA getting all the hate about this.


(A) *What?*







What products does EA sell for Microsoft? What are you talking about? You make no sense. Nero? TuneUp Utilities would be obvious, but seriously what are you on about?

(B) Google monitors traffic and ad, web use and otherwise - sure. However, I'm never signed in to Google via the web other than to check email. I don't search Google signed in, I don't participate in other Google products like Google+ or AdSense, or otherwise. Sure, I use Google Earth once in a while - but what are they collecting there that might institute mining of personal inquiry? That I'm looking at the home I grew up in so they can send me mortgage companies with information about loans to purchase similar house or it that are on the market? Come on.

And Facebook? I don't use that crap, or MySpace, or any of the other 'social' networking sites.

So, Google will still monitor sites I'm searching for because of their engine and make recommendations on sites that may be of interest to me. That is relevant information, not data mining. Facebook and other 'social sites' is totally different. There is a reason I'm not a part of any of them.

I still fail to see the logic in your argument. What EA is doing is, a) spying b) intrusive c) a privacy issue and d) very alarming.

EA is not Google, or Facebook, or MS. They are a gaming developer/publisher.


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## murrycrane

Quote:



And yet again we have to remember that Origin isn't putting itself on every web page out there and is actually giving you a choice: use it or decline from using it.


And yet again we have to remember what Origin is really doing here: They are breaking the law.

At least in Germany they do. And since privacy laws are pretty much the same throughout the EU they are breaking the laws of many other countries, too. I don't know but if I break the law I get a fine or go to jail. And I have to stop breaking the law. Why should we treat EA and Origin different in any way?

If you sell something - software or any other product you have to abide to the laws in the country you sell to. Or can someone sell marihuana in the US just because he resides in the Netherlands and its legal there?


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## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *i7monkey*


snip


You just gave me the privacy thing again. Yes we know, you don't have to pound it into everyone's head right now, that's not what the argument was about.

I'm arguing against the overblown reaction the media seems to have right now.

And for the last time: I am not in favor of letting companies take our private info. Read my posts and you'll see that I never said that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


(A) *What?*







What products does EA sell for Microsoft? What are you talking about? You make no sense. Nero? TuneUp Utilities would be obvious, but seriously what are you on about?


EA shows microsoft adds on their sites ----> EA gets add revenue = money for EA.

EA shows the right ads for a specific user on their page ---> user is more likely to click the add = EA gets even more ad revenue/money.

Quote:



snip about google, facebook etc. and how not participating in these services will somehow shield you from them (not GanjaSMK's specific wording by any means)


Doesn't really work like that. For example there are different facebook links, elements, like-buttons etc. on majority of popular news sites, blogs etc. right now. When you use one of these sites, even if you don't have a facebook account you get profiled and your browsing habits get used for marketing. Doesn't sound too much different than Origin checking what programs you run and using that info for advertising.

Quote:



EA is not Google, or Facebook, or MS. They are a gaming developer/publisher.


EA, Google, Facebook and MS all offer services for their customers. The have their differences but those are really not relevant right now since we're talking about privacy issues related to services specifically.

-------------------

I have an early wake up tomorrow. I'll check this thread then but now I need to sleep. 'Nite guys.


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## Citra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


You'll need to download Process Monitor


Thanks!


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## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar;15524152*
> EA shows microsoft adds on their sites ----> EA gets add revenue = money for EA.
> 
> EA shows the right ads for a specific user on their page ---> user is more likely to click the add = EA gets even more ad revenue/money.
> 
> Doesn't really work like that. For example there are different facebook links, elements, like-buttons etc. on majority of popular news sites, blogs etc. right now. When you use one of these sites, even if you don't have a facebook account you get profiled and your browsing habits get used for marketing. Doesn't sound too much different than Origin checking what programs you run and using that info for advertising.
> 
> *EA, Google, Facebook and MS all offer services for their customers. The have their differences but those are really not relevant right now since we're talking about privacy issues related to services specifically.*


Underlined: Those site's aren't actively scanning my personal computer looking for relevant data mining to assure those 3rd party advertising elements. Origin is.

*Bold*: Oh but you're wrong, this is what you're stating as being ok. The services are relevant because they offer those services. It is a privacy issue relating exactly to those services, namely Origin.

Lastly, for your own night, I fail to see the _logic_ in your argument. You mention your argument being based on 'sensationalized' media coverage yet you bring in the very privacy concerns we're on about - not the media coverage.


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## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Shfvingle;15514725*
> *In the end though, it's EA's product. If you don't like their terms, don't use their product.* If their terms are against the law in your country, it's their loss for losing sales in an entire country. All you lose is a game, while they lose millions. They want to sell it to you, but, it is not your right to play a game if it is illegal. Now please, get back to work so we can worry about more important things.


The next time you walk into a convenience store to buy a chocolate bar they will ask you for blood samples and fingerprints. Don't like these terms, simple, don't buy it.

Months later *all stores* will force customers to give blood samples and fingerprints before buying chocolates bars. In fact, you can no longer buy chocolate bars anywhere without following this necessary step. *If you don't like this policy, don't ever buy a chocolate bar anymore*.


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## magicase

For people who have been monitoring the scanning of Origin. Does it scan the hdd it's installed in only or does it scan all the hdd in yoru PC?


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## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar;15524152*
> You just gave me the privacy thing again. Yes we know, you don't have to pound it into everyone's head right now


Actually, I do need to pound it in everyone's head. People need to realize that first and foremost this is a privacy issue and nothing else.

It's *NOT* about "_*how much*_ privacy violation is ok", it's *NOT* about "what EA is gonna do with my data", it's *NOT* about "where EA is gonna store my data" or any other irrelevant little point, *it's about why EA is violating our data in the first place.*

Quote:


> I'm arguing against the overblown reaction the media seems to have right now.


Sure, and you have a valid point (we need consistent media coverage and public reaction), but please don't do it in this thread as it is another topic altogether and will only pollute this thread with irrelevant discussion. We need to stick to the issue at hand, which is privacy violation and not hypocritical public reaction.


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## L1Ghtk1ll3r

@i7monkey
you have to tell them what privacy is!
you telling them taht privacy is only a word..something you can have if you want or not if you dont want
you dont have to tell them why to have privacy
you have to tell them why you should never have unprivacy

you can easily use the ddr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany)
most of you guys say: i dont do anything wrong!
are you realy shure? you doing a lot of things wrong. You vote for the wrong party. No matter for which party you vote! The other guys wont like you. If the other guys now have the power to chosse wether you should get something (eg a job) you will 100% not get it
if you want to know how dangerous it can be if you dont have privacy:
https://www.privacyrights.org/why-privacy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20202935/ns/business-school_inc_/t/job-candidates-getting-tripped-facebook/
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2006/05/70886

or if you want more watching movies
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

watch this, read this and you know what privacy is

you guys never had to deal with threats to your society
you had democray for almost all time
you had never to live in a county invaded by enemy forces
you had never hitler
you had never socialism

and now you guys are throwing away which makes you guys unique: you all time democracy

today you have one of the weakest democracys in the world
only democracys in countrys like russia are weaker the yours

How i dare to write this?
I think. I wonder what you americans whould do if your army fails for some reason eg evil president or mutining troops

taking your guns and shoot? no because you see no reason to fight for your rights or privacy. Because you dont need them the most of you time but if you are in a situation where you need them and you dont have them you are pwned. Because you cant get rights from in a couple of seconds back. so better never loosing them?

sry for my bad english

Grüße from bavaria


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## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey;15524413*
> The next time you walk into a convenience store to buy a chocolate bar they will ask you for blood samples and fingerprints. Don't like these terms, simple, don't buy it.
> 
> Months later *all stores* will force customers to give blood samples and fingerprints before buying chocolates bars. In fact, you can no longer buy chocolate bars anywhere without following this necessary step. *If you don't like this policy, don't ever buy a chocolate bar anymore*.


If enough people didn't go to the store, then the store would go out of business. Simple as that. If enough people don't buy the game (to late for that), then Origin would be removed, or DICE would suffer big losses (possibility).
----

If you don't like your privacy invaded, then why would you buy and play a game that supports it?

It's like giving your war enemy valuable intel, and then being outraged that they know your next moves...

You can complain all you want, but unless you actually stop supporting it, no one cares. And they shouldn't.


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## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337;15525065*
> If you don't like your privacy invaded, then why would you buy and play a game that supports it?
> 
> It's like giving your war enemy valuable intel, and then being outraged that they know your next moves...
> 
> You can complain all you want, but unless you actually stop supporting it, no one cares. And they shouldn't.


Lets say MS adds something similar to Windows.
And Linus does to Linux.
And Apple does to OSX.
And The FreeBSD Project do to FreeBSD.
etc.

Then, what OS do I use? Oh dear, looks like I can't use a computer any more.









It's fair enough when it's one or two games you have to boycott, but when it's many it just is too far for everyone, whining doesn't help and people should be emailing the companies responsible with complaints, but still, just saying "Don't buy it" is shortsighted and just as bad on the other side.


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## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15525116*
> Lets say MS adds something similar to Windows.
> And Linus does to Linux.
> And Apple does to OSX.
> And The FreeBSD Project do to FreeBSD.
> etc.
> 
> Then, what OS do I use? Oh dear, looks like I can't use a computer any more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's fair enough when it's one or two games you have to boycott, but when it's many it just is too far for everyone, whining doesn't help and people should be emailing the companies responsible with complaints, but still, just saying "Don't buy it" is shortsighted and just as bad on the other side.


You misunderstood me. I wasn't saying it was the only solution, but it is part of the solution. AS you can clearly see in Germany.

What annoys me, is all the people playing with Origin and complaining its doing bad things. Uninstall it and never install it again, and then you may complain.

In this specific case, an easier solution would be to return your PC copy and get a console version if you want to play the game badly.


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## FuNkDrSpOt

Another thing to remeber for those that argue that its ok because its not he Govt doing this, remember that the NSA and other agencies use major corps, like AT&T, as proxies for web sifting.

Another note for those of you who think its ok for EA to put stuff like this in an EULA, just remember that EULAs and the DMCA have both essentially killed the consumer Fair Use law.


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## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *conzilla;15522407*
> In my general experience the people who worry about other people stealing from them are theives. The people who worry about privicy have somthing to hide. I have nothing to hide.
> Anyone ever read the xbox kinects agreement they can look into your house lol.


And all people are good...right?

Information is ammunition. Give it in the wrong hands and it can be used against you. Make one house of government more powerful then the next and we create political instability. No, EA is clearly infringing on peoples' right and should be held up in court.


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## mega_option101

I think that this thread has finally ran it's course.

To those that kept it clean and on-topic, I wish to thank you









For those that brought this thread to the point of me having to close it, smarten up! Why is it so hard to have a peaceful and respectful discussion without it turning due south?

Regards,

mega_option101


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