# Water cooling loop (oil instead of water) ?



## Angrybutcher

Oil in the tubing would work no better than simple distilled water, likely far worse. The reason it works for submersion, is the lack of conductivity


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## van13330gg

Doesn't hurt you to try it out and report back right?


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## Thingamajig

Not sure using oil in loops designed for water would do the pumps any favors.

Restrictive waterblocks or res's would also be of concern.


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## nvidiaftw12

I saw this being done on [H], but he was cooling the rad with phase.


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## redsunx

Too thick. It's like trying to throw 15w-40 in a 5w-20 engine. It'll gurgle and stall. Your pump would burn out really fast too.


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## thrplayer1

I believe rads would have a harder time removing the heat also.


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## Strangg1

You probably wont' be able to find a pump that could handle it, and oil can't dissipate heath worth a poo.

~S


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## Rognin

Scroll down a bit...

Oil = 0.138
Water = 0.6
Mercury = 8.3

If you wish to go out of the ordinary, mercury would be the way to go. Mineral oil has five time less thermal conductance than heat.

Hrmmm, mercury....


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## theyedi

mm mercury. hassle free maintenance, since nothing's ever gonna grow in the tubes


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## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rognin*
> 
> Scroll down a bit...
> Oil = 0.138
> Water = 0.6
> Mercury = 8.3
> If you wish to go out of the ordinary, mercury would be the way to go. Mineral oil has five time less thermal conductance than heat.
> Hrmmm, mercury....


Yeh, but you would need a huge reservoir due to its massive expanding from heat. If you were going subzero when you turned off your phase unit (if you were to do so) you have like 20 times the mercury.

Edit: On that wiki it shows graphine with a huge conductance. Why don't we see any IC Graphine?


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## Rognin

Or diamond dust in the water?


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## craigs911

thanks for your input guys

like i said it was just a thought that would not work as well as i thought
would be interesting to see what could be used

as some one said mercury would be cool would have to use just enough to fill
the loop then have a res that could accommodate the 2-3x expansion of it


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## madchemist83

Yeah good luck with mercury. You'll die before you get your first results. Water would be the best option and he made out of graphene.


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## Killam0n

what we need:

Liquid Helium II
Liquid Nitrogen
Mercury

=

Nazi bell.

=

UFO's

=

FTW, Boom.


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## Blameless

This is a terrible idea.

Water is used because water has superb volumetric heat capacity. The amount of heat water can move is vastly higher than that of oil, or even liquid metals.

Oil is only used in submersion cooling because you need something non-conductive and there are usually dozens of gallons of the stuff.

Mercury has better thermal conductivity than water, but conductivity is no where near as important as heat capacity.


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## Rognin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> This is a terrible idea.
> Water is used because water has superb volumetric heat capacity. The amount of heat water can move is vastly higher than that of oil, or even liquid metals.
> Oil is only used in submersion cooling because you need something non-conductive and there are usually dozens of gallons of the stuff.
> Mercury has better thermal conductivity than water, but conductivity is no where near as important as heat capacity.


Guess it's better late than never...


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## PhatFree

people use to use oil in loops, warning, its gunky, and it makes the tubes REALLY stiff


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## Rippey574

Using correct materials for tubing would stop the gunking. This is the oil breaking down the tube. Gasoline rated rubber tube will not gunk oil. Even some SI hose is oil rated.

As for oil\heat conductivity, use transformer oil. This oil is designed for this. But still not at waters ratings for heat.

Simply build a a better pump, a diesel tractor engine fuel pump is rated up-to 4psi typically. Can move about 1/2 gallon a minute. Which is better then most peoples computer water pumps.

Thermal Conductivity
(W/m K)
Transformer oil 0.110
Propylene glycol 0.147
Ammonia, saturated 0.507
Water, Fresh 0.609

Little side reading
Thermal Oil


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## Aleslammer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rippey574*
> 
> Little side reading
> Thermal Oil


Based on the viscosity numbers this would be worth looking at, little easier on the pump. Had to replace a heater hose at -20+ F and the 50% P. glycol coolant was moving more on the lines 90w gear lube.


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## warpuck

ATF automatic transmission fluid has fairly good thermal conductivity (for petroleum products) and lubricating quality. It is also a non electrical conductor. It may even be cheaper than mineral oil. Ford AODE and GM 700R have the controller chips immersed in it. Dexron III and type F (10w) has a lower viscosity than Dexron IV (30W ). If you are handy with a lathe and mill... rigging a Small block chevy oil pump to move the fluid through a automatic transmission cooler would not be that challenging. The question is would it eat the mobo and any other plastic parts? If you like the color red It would be great.


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## ddcmdb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rippey574*
> 
> Using correct materials for tubing would stop the gunking. This is the oil breaking down the tube. Gasoline rated rubber tube will not gunk oil. Even some SI hose is oil rated.
> As for oil\heat conductivity, use transformer oil. This oil is designed for this. But still not at waters ratings for heat.
> Simply build a a better pump, a diesel tractor engine fuel pump is rated up-to 4psi typically. Can move about 1/2 gallon a minute. Which is better then most peoples computer water pumps.
> Thermal Conductivity
> (W/m K)
> Transformer oil 0.110
> Propylene glycol 0.147
> Ammonia, saturated 0.507
> Water, Fresh 0.609
> Little side reading
> Thermal Oil


What kind of tractor are we talking? I'll be a fifth generation farmer and the fuel pumps on our smallest tractors are pretty damn big...and a good percentage of them are adjustable, you can turn em up to get a few extra ponies out of a tractor. The hydraulic pumps are even bigger...


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## Gen Ross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rognin*
> 
> Scroll down a bit...
> Oil = 0.138
> Water = 0.6
> Mercury = 8.3
> If you wish to go out of the ordinary, mercury would be the way to go. Mineral oil has five time less thermal conductance than heat.
> Hrmmm, mercury....


You might want to keep aluminum out of the system if you somehow get mercury running through it.


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## gflgs

Very interesting stuff, will check back.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redsunx*
> 
> Too thick. It's like trying to throw 15w-40 in a 5w-20 engine. It'll gurgle and stall. Your pump would burn out really fast too.


your wrong








pudget systems http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php runs pumps on there systems and i have in the past the pump wont "burnout" as you put it because its essentially pushing lube through itself people have been pushing oil through a pump and rad back into their submerged system for quite some time now research before posting
oh yeah here is another source for ya-
http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/desktops/index.html
they use pumps to move the oil through tubes into a rad and back into the system as well


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> your wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pudget systems http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php runs pumps on there systems and i have in the past the pump wont "burnout" as you put it because its essentially pushing lube through itself people have been pushing oil through a pump and rad back into their submerged system for quite some time now research before posting
> oh yeah here is another source for ya-
> http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/desktops/index.html
> they use pumps to move the oil through tubes into a rad and back into the system as well


It all depends on the pump. If the pump/impeller can handle the viscosity.

Why it wont burn out has nothing to do with the pump "lubing" itself. The oil will never come in contact with the parts that need to be "lubed" as those are sealed bearings.

You need to do some research on what happens when a pump "burns out", yourself, sir.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> It all depends on the pump. If the pump/impeller can handle the viscosity.
> Why it wont burn out has nothing to do with the pump "lubing" itself. The oil will never come in contact with the parts that need to be "lubed" as those are sealed bearings.
> You need to do some research on what happens when a pump "burns out", yourself, sir.


this is true it does depend on the pump and or viscosity and yeah sealed bearings totally went kaput out of my head
im man enough to say i forgot that fact









and he said
"Your pump would burn out really fast too."
not "a weak pump would burn out really fast too"
i just wanted to prove that this generalized statement was false thats all


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> this is true it does depend on the pump and or viscosity and yeah sealed bearings totally went kaput out of my head
> im man enough to say i forgot that fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and he said
> "Your pump would burn out really fast too."
> not "a weak pump would burn out really fast too"
> i just wanted to prove that this generalized statement was false thats all












just be careful not to answer a generalization with another gernalization









S'all good though.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just be careful not to answer a generalization with another gernalization
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S'all good though.


generalization







cal me the general


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## Nocturin

aye captain.

anyways, back OT.

OP go with a submersible-oil system (research heavily first, there are pros and cons) and use a car rad or something similar cool the oil as it warms up.

Think of an open inlet/outlet where the pump just pulls from the etank and then cools it, an spits it back in the tank (no water blocks on anything).


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## duhjuh

i have hear of (with the sytem totally submerged ) putting a block on the cpu and having the fresh oil from the rad com into the block and just shoot out into the tank to help keep the CPU temp stable


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i have hear of (with the sytem totally submerged ) putting a block on the cpu and having the fresh oil from the rad com into the block and just shoot out into the tank to help keep the CPU temp stable


Thats not a bad idea, but IMHO one would be better off using a solid heatsink(lapped w/ cpu) and just the outlet from the rad and something to agitate the oil to mix better.

The larger the surface area of the heatsink the better.


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## THX-1138

i Thought this seemed pretty usefull

http://www.lytron.com/Tools-and-Technical-Reference/Application-Notes/The-Best-Heat-Transfer-Fluids-for-Liquid-Cooling


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## Shimme

From a couple of people's responses to the Mercury idea I think this needs to be said:

Mercury is something you should *NEVER* use. It's extremely poisonous and will kill you over time, after it's caused some serious brain damage.


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> From a couple of people's responses to the Mercury idea I think this needs to be said:
> Mercury is something you should *NEVER* use. It's extremely poisonous and will kill you over time, after it's caused some serious brain damage.


This

It's very hard to get ahold of in the states, and there are warnings like mad when you buy it, so I'll think it's alright.

This thread has been gone over many times just in this forum







.


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## duhjuh

ok yeah def this btw


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## ghostrider85

now why would you want to use oil in the loop instead of water? it's just doesn't make any sense.


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## F2 Components

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redsunx*
> 
> Too thick. It's like trying to throw 15w-40 in a 5w-20 engine. It'll gurgle and stall. Your pump would burn out really fast too.


Actually 15w40 in place of 5w20 will run just fine. You would just get worse mileage, a horsepower decrease due to pumping losses and it would pollute more. So that's why you don't want to do it. I worked in the automotive lubricant field for 7 years, I have seen this mistake made more than once. I would say a better vehicle related analogy would be putting 80w90 in an engine requiring 0w20. That's a better comparison of water to mineral oil.


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## Shimme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> oh yeah here is another source for ya-
> http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/desktops/index.html
> they use pumps to move the oil through tubes into a rad and back into the system as well


That is really cool IMHO. OP, maybe something like this? Expensive yes, but not that different than a high-end watercooling kit with waterblocked GPUs.


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> That is really cool IMHO. OP, maybe something like this? Expensive yes, but not that different than a high-end watercooling kit with waterblocked GPUs.


It would be awesome if they updated their hardware, still using X58 procs.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> That is really cool IMHO. OP, maybe something like this? Expensive yes, but not that different than a high-end watercooling kit with waterblocked GPUs.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> It would be awesome if they updated their hardware, still using X58 procs.


yeah even cooler non of the components use heat sinks the oil sprays directly on them and thats enough to cool them i saw it in one of their videos where a guy was explaining it with a video card


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> yeah even cooler non of the components use heat sinks the oil sprays directly on them and thats enough to cool them i saw it in one of their videos where a guy was explaining it with a video card


that was a video of Novac 7000, you would still want a heatsink with modern hardware (with oil), it just wouldn't need to be as large or active (depending on flow).


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## duhjuh

no im 99 percent sure it was these guys the had the main oil line right from the rad come into a plastic manifold with different tub sizes moving to various places in the system im sure of it
edit: i rmember him saying this is how we configure the gpus except for the small heat sinks on them which we wont be using anymore because they are actually fine without


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> no im 99 percent sure it was these guys the had the main oil line right from the rad come into a plastic manifold with different tub sizes moving to various places in the system im sure of it
> edit: i rmember him saying this is how we configure the gpus except for the small heat sinks on them which we wont be using anymore because they are actually fine without


that doesn't make sense. oil has great heat capacity, but not so much transfer.

was there bubbling involved in the video? like this?


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## duhjuh

ill scour the interwebs on my napster machine and find the video


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## Celoth

Back in the day when PSU's were sometimes still noisy I was really close to making a submerged PSU system with a dielectric oil like the Fluorinert. The only thing that stopped me was that I couldn't buy it in small quantities where I live, only in big-ass barrel drums.









Anyway, I researched the subject quite a bit, and there are also factors like the capillary action of oil that has to be taken into account. In short, keeping a system oil-tight is a lot harder than keeping it water-tight. You can't use the standard fittings and waterblocks and not get at least some leakage over time.

I ended up with a fairly standard water cooling setup, and because I took a lot of care in cleaning before use and used some Tygon Silver Tubing (the silver coating inside kills bacteria, viruses, algae and fungi) and double distilled water, I've never had to change the water for the last 4½ years.

tl;dr version: Stick to water. Clean thoroughly beforehand and use distilled water and quality components and tubing.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth*
> 
> Back in the day when PSU's were sometimes still noisy I was really close to making a submerged PSU system with a dielectric oil like the Fluorinert. The only thing that stopped me was that I couldn't buy it in small quantities where I live, only in big-ass barrel drums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I researched the subject quite a bit, and there are also factors like the cappilary action of oil that has to be taken into account. In short, keeping a system oil-tight is a lot harder than keeping it water-tight. You can't use the standard fittings and waterblocks and not get at least some leakage over time.
> I ended up with a fairly standard water cooling setup, and because I took a lot of care in cleaning before use and used some Tygon Silver Tubing (the silver coating inside kills bacteria, viruses, algae and fungi) and double distilled water, I've never had to change the water for the last 4½ years.
> tl;dr version: Stick to water. Clean thoroughly beforehand and use distilled water and quality components and tubing.


yes some "wicking effect will happen " and will cause your tubes and some cables to stiffen as for "you cant use standared fittings" you totally can it takes several years tofor the tubes to degrade to the point where thay will leak.. proof of this is the tons of people who bought pudgets systems fish tank rev 2(?) that comes with a water cooling rad that the oil runs to and shocker comes with normal fittings and people have reported running them for 2+ years without leaks and most people change out their tubes long before then
EDIT: also instead of buying tygon silver tubing just spend6 bucks on kill coil and pick whatever tubing color you see fit


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## Z4XC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> ill scour the interwebs on my *napster machine* and find the video


This comment made me check the year of the post.


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## george241312

What about using blood ? It keeps the body warm by transferring heat I wonder how a loop would react to blood............


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## Z4XC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *george241312*
> 
> What about using blood ? It keeps the body warm by transferring heat I wonder how a loop would react to blood............


I feel like actually giving this an answer.

You would need the nutrients that are required for blood cells to thrive. Use a fish as the rad maybe? This could help treat the blood, and depending on the type of fish you could have it live in lower temperature water. Then you have to cool the water the fish lives in and feed it. This is getting complex. On that note it is almost 4 am, and clear based on this post; it is bed time.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z4XC*
> 
> This comment made me check the year of the post.


sorry i was watching the mettlicops video lol


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## Nvidia-Brownies

Well if you can get the most powerful pump on the market, than use Copper pipe's for tubing, That would be your best option. Copper absorbs the heat too, which is good for when it's pumping it's way through the tubing. Instead of the heat being completely dissipated from the radiator, you have the tubing and the radiator. Also, try and get two radiators and equally set them both up into one loop. Displace what's being cooled evenly in the loop, instead of having something like this:


Doing that can just cause more wait time for cooler water to flow through, and your components would be more hot than this setup:


You're welcome.

PS: Sorry for my crappy electronic artistic skills.


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## Celoth

The position of the radiators in the loop only makes a real meaningful difference if the loop is a very low-flow loop. If there's a decent flow-through, the delta is small and fairly insignificant. It makes a lot more sense to focus on the best way possible to fit it in the system and on the airflow and lowest resistance for the water (no 90 degree elbow fittings if possible), than to try and force the radiators to be in two separate places in the loop, if that compromises air and waterflow.


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## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth*
> 
> The position of the radiators in the loop only makes a real meaningful difference if the loop is a very low-flow loop. If there's a decent flow-through, the delta is small and fairly insignificant. It makes a lot more sense to focus on the best way possible to fit it in the system and on the airflow and lowest resistance for the water (no 90 degree elbow fittings if possible), than to try and force the radiators to be in two separate places in the loop, if that compromises air and waterflow.


this^ your going to see a 2-5 degree difference at best by moving around rads dont worry about loop order except res-> pump


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## SAimNE

going to necro this on the hopes OP is still active.

Razer project christine is a project that appears to cover the benefits of a flowing loop, and the oils submersible capabilities. oil pumps through all the modules using the pump that is paired in the same module as the psu(i think, they arent too clear but it appears so), all of it gets pumped into the modules which both submerges the entire gpu or w/e and also allows complete flow... tis quite interesting for the silent cooling bit as well as cooling the entire card rather than specific points(dram and such).


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## HitMe

i did try mineral oil in a small loop
2 pumps are dead









use 2 x D5


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