# Best Thermal Paste 2013?



## coachmark2

Are we talking bang for buck? Or just THE BEST of them all?


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## PedroC1999

BEST OF THE BEST

But include bang for buck if you wish


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## frogger4

My understanding is not much has changed in the last year (no new blockbuster thermal pastes). Still is take your pick between IC-Diamond 7, Arctic MX-4, Arctic Silver 5, and a certain ShinEtsu (not sure which one) as best I know.


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## Rickles

Just get any top level paste that doesn't have a cure time. I think you are looking at bigger differences in each particular mount than top level paste A vs. top level paste B.


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## DizZz

indigo xtreme is definitely the best. nothing better has come out since 2011


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## solar0987

More recent one









http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermal-Compound-Roundup-January-2012/1468/5

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Thermal-Paste-Roundup-172


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## BaK2BaK

Coollaboratory Liquid Pro/Ultra, no hesitation!


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## frogger4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solar0987*
> 
> More recent one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermal-Compound-Roundup-January-2012/1468/5
> 
> http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Thermal-Paste-Roundup-172


The first link there. They tested mayonnaise. It did better than half of the results.


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## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> The first link there. They tested mayonnaise. It did better than half of the results.


Mayonnaise is a great thermal compound, so is toothpaste. Until they dry up that is


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## Jameswalt1

Prolimatech PK-1


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## Nick7269

There is no miracle tim. Some of the prices and claims are just silly. You should be able to get a tube (3.5 grams) for around $10-$12. That will last for numerous applications.
I think how you apply the tim makes the biggest difference. Less is better.


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizZz*
> 
> indigo xtreme is definitely the best. nothing better has come out since 2011


What about coolabs Liquid ultra? Indigo xtreme can't be used on naked ivy cpus right?


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## PedroC1999

Iirc, Liquid ultra doesnt perform very well in a heatsink situation.


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## dennis97519

Erm what do you mean by "a heatsink situation"? Isn't every compound used between a IHS/CPU and a heatsink?

Also what is the best thermal compound by far?


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## PedroC1999

Ultra isnt very good inbetwren the CPu and its cooler, its better in betweenbthe die and ihs


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## Maiky

Coollaboratory Liquid Pro / Prolimatech PK-1


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## *ka24e*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaK2BaK*
> 
> Coollaboratory Liquid Pro/Ultra, no hesitation!


This! I use nothing but Liquid Ultra on my main systems.

It's either me or something AS5 has changed, but has anyone noticed that AS5 has absolutely sucked in the last 5-6 months?


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## Maiky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **ka24e**
> 
> This! I use nothing but Liquid Ultra on my main systems.
> 
> It's either me or something AS5 has changed, but has anyone noticed that AS5 has absolutely sucked in the last 5-6 months?


AS5 was great back in the day, now we have superior options to choose from.


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## blupupher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maiky*
> 
> AS5 was great back in the day, now we have superior options to choose from.


Yeah, the TIM's that are "superior" to AS 5 are a whole 1-2° cooler (well within the realm of differences due to application).
Look at the graph in the above post, AS 5 is 71.69°C, the "best" Indigo Extreme is 70.05°C. A whole 1.64°C difference. Then look at cost, a small tube of AS 5 is ~$3 (I have gotten a 3.5g tube for $1 before), Indigo Extreme is what, $10, and that is a single application.

Are there better TIM's than AS 5, sure, but for 95% of the people here (and 99% of the rest of the world), not a huge deal.
AS 5 is relatively cheap, easy to find, easy to use and clean up and works well.

And no, it is not conductive (it is capacitive) and will not short out your system.

That being said, my CPU on my sig rig has MX-2 on it right now (but my graphics card has AS 5).


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## clintwilks

I have used many different Tims on both AMD and Intel CPUs recently (AMD fx6300, phenom x4 965, 3570k) here's my list rated best to worst from what i've used.
Shin Etsu x23-7783
Prolimatech Pk-2 and PK-3
Arctic MX4
Tuniq TX4
Enermax Stock paste (Dow Corning DC5121)
Artic Silver 5


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## Maiky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blupupher*
> 
> Yeah, the TIM's that are "superior" to AS 5 are a whole 1-2° cooler (well within the realm of differences due to application).
> Look at the graph in the above post, AS 5 is 71.69°C, the "best" Indigo Extreme is 70.05°C. A whole 1.64°C difference. Then look at cost, a small tube of AS 5 is ~$3 (I have gotten a 3.5g tube for $1 before), Indigo Extreme is what, $10, and that is a single application.
> 
> Are there better TIM's than AS 5, sure, but for 95% of the people here (and 99% of the rest of the world), not a huge deal.
> AS 5 is relatively cheap, easy to find, easy to use and clean up and works well.
> 
> And no, it is not conductive (it is capacitive) and will not short out your system.
> 
> That being said, my CPU on my sig rig has MX-2 on it right now (but my graphics card has AS 5).


Agreed, I just don't use AS5 anymore cause you can get better and better means better regardless of the cost.

BTW that graph is outdated, indigo is not the the best paste money can buy ATM.

If I can get a good 1-3 degrees with the best paste available then why would I even think of AS5?

Like I said, back in the day AS5 was the norm, not anymore..

I never said AS5 was conductive, LoL where did you get that from?


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## ginger_nuts

Are we looking for best preforming or best application?

IMO and experience, Indigo Extreme was a pain in the ...... to apply and even more to remove. And expensive as hell







My experience was horrid.

AS5 is easy to apply and remove, preforms pretty good, and great value.









Aractic Ceramique2 was horrid to spread but preformed OK









Noctua NT-H1 Pro-Grade was easy to apply worked well and removed easily, but not cheap stuff here.









I have personally went back to using AS5 which was a overall good TIM

This is just my opinion and experience.


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## WR6133

I always thought AS5 is a bit over-hyped, curing time and price wise (£5 for 3.5g).

Personally I stick to MX2, it's cheap as chips (8g for less than £5) and does a decent enough job


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## *ka24e*

AS5 and my de-lidded Ivy just did not work. Using an H100 (with x4 fans) with a vcore around 1.4v or so, I couldn't run Prime, OCCT, or IBT without touching 105c within seconds. I tried re-seating numerous times and kept getting the same result over and over.

I used Liquid Ultra on the die/IHS and IHS to H100 and I'll get in the 90's on a warm day at around 1.55v under load.


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## Nova.

I myself use Noctua's NT-H1 and IC Diamond. Both are very good TIMs.


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## frogger4

Is PK-1 preferable to PK-2 or 3? Do they spread differently?

I've been using Arctic Cooling MX-4 on everything lately - it performs quite well and spreads beautifully







I think MX-2 may perform just slightly better, but it's a pain to use.


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## lostmage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WR6133*
> 
> I always thought AS5 is a bit over-hyped, curing time and price wise (£5 for 3.5g).
> 
> Personally I stick to MX2, it's cheap as chips (8g for less than £5) and does a decent enough job


I got a pretty nice temp drop when I switched from AS5 to MX2, something around 4 or 5C, since the AS5 application I did wasn't all that great either.
MX2 is a pretty good bang for the buck, I'd recommend it.


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## Imprezzion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jameswalt1*
> 
> Prolimatech PK-1


This. I <3 my 30 gram syringe.


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## ginger_nuts

Can't find anywhere in Australia selling this Liquid Ultra so many speak of









OK I found it on eBay but at $24AUD for what looks like one application, I don't think I will try it any time soon


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## jamdox

I like PK-1 as well, though it's useful to stick it in a cup of hot water before applying.

I'm curious about the performance of 2 and 3. PK-1, NT-H1 and MX4 are considered the best TIMs in my general reading. Liquid pro/ultra are good but they are conductive and tend to solidify between the IHS and heatsink for some unknown reason (though they don't between the IHS and the bare die).

EDIT: AS5 is apparently not electrically conductive.


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## DizZz

I've personally tested the following:

AS5
Phobya HeGrease
MX-2
PK-1
IC Diamond

and have found that IC Diamond gives the most consistent temperatures between mounts and cores and therefore has the best performance. It's easy to apply and is definitely my favorite paste to use


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## blupupher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maiky*
> 
> ...
> 
> I never said AS5 was conductive, LoL where did you get that from?


That was not directed at you, it is just something that almost always comes up when talking about AS 5.


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## Maiky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blupupher*
> 
> That was not directed at you, it is just something that almost always comes up when talking about AS 5.


Alrighty


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jamdox*
> 
> I like PK-1 as well, though it's useful to stick it in a cup of hot water before applying.
> 
> I'm curious about the performance of 2 and 3. PK-1, NT-H1 and MX4 are considered the best TIMs in my general reading. Liquid pro/ultra are good but they are conductive and tend to solidify between the IHS and heatsink for some unknown reason (though they don't between the IHS and the bare die).
> 
> EDIT: AS5 is apparently not electrically conductive.


Liquid ultra's gallium alloying the two layers of copper?


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ginger_nuts*
> 
> Can't find anywhere in Australia selling this Liquid Ultra so many speak of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK I found it on eBay but at $24AUD for what looks like one application, I don't think I will try it any time soon


See if Amazon ships worldwide. Should be cheaper on Amazon. i didn't find any on eBay.


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## fishhawk

If applied properly to what your hardware is, heat sink/cpu,pretty much all the GOOD brands are with in 2c-3c, I have like 10 of them
and am constantly testing, also depends on, lapping or not lapping, case fans so on. Still one of my favs and has been for years AS5


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## iRUSH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizZz*
> 
> I've personally tested the following:
> 
> AS5
> Phobya HeGrease
> MX-2
> PK-1
> IC Diamond
> 
> and have found that IC Diamond gives the most consistent temperatures between mounts and cores and therefore has the best performance. It's easy to apply and is definitely my favorite paste to use


I agree


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## jamdox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dennis97519*
> 
> Liquid ultra's gallium alloying the two layers of copper?


It's a mystery. It apparently doesn't happen when the CLU/P is between a die and an IHS, but it does if between an IHS and the heatsink. Hardening has been observed with both copper and nickel-plated heatsinks. I don't know why it would alloy when between two pieces of metal but not one.


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## clintwilks

do not use liquid ultra or liquid pro on your IHS. it will corrode


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## *ka24e*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clintwilks*
> 
> do not use liquid ultra or liquid pro on your IHS. it will corrode


What? Why will it corrode the IHS?


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **ka24e**
> 
> What? Why will it corrode the IHS?


gallium and aluminum? But ihs is copper and some platting right?


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## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dennis97519*
> 
> gallium and aluminum? But ihs is copper and some platting right?


Yes. It won't eat the copper
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jamdox*
> 
> It's a mystery. It apparently doesn't happen when the CLU/P is between a die and an IHS, but it does if between an IHS and the heatsink. Hardening has been observed with both copper and nickel-plated heatsinks. I don't know why it would alloy when between two pieces of metal but not one.


I thought alloys are created at high-temperatures? I'm pretty sure it's because they are very "sticky". PK-1 has quite a high amount of adhesiveness


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **ka24e**
> 
> What? Why will it corrode the IHS?


gallium and aluminum? But ihs is copper and some platting right?


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## frogger4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizZz*
> 
> ...
> and have found that IC Diamond gives the most consistent temperatures between mounts and cores and therefore has the best performance. It's easy to apply and is definitely my favorite paste to use


It's easy enough to apply for a small area like over a gpu or a laptop processor heatsink (where you need to use a spread method) - but I found I don't like it for desktop CPUs with their large IHS. IC Diamond doesn't spread well enough on its own to just use the dot / line method like you can with less viscous compounds, and I find it hard to manually spread it out smoothly over the whole area you want to cover.


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## DizZz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frogger4*
> 
> It's easy enough to apply for a small area like over a gpu or a laptop processor heatsink (where you need to use a spread method) - but I found I don't like it for desktop CPUs with their large IHS. IC Diamond doesn't spread well enough on its own to just use the dot / line method like you can with less viscous compounds, and I find it hard to manually spread it out smoothly over the whole area you want to cover.


I've always used the dot method in the center and it's worked very well for me. You're right it does not spread very well but with the dot method, there is no need to spread it


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## DaveLT

If a paste is hard to spread it's going to be hard to just rely on pressure alone








Use a X (That's what i do) or 3 lines going down vertically
X is better than many small dots around the IHS as the spreading will be more even


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## frogger4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizZz*
> 
> I've always used the dot method in the center and it's worked very well for me. You're right it does not spread very well but with the dot method, there is no need to spread it


Good to know!


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## jamdox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> I thought alloys are created at high-temperatures? I'm pretty sure it's because they are very "sticky". PK-1 has quite a high amount of adhesiveness


The P stands for "Pro," not PK-1, as in Coollaboratories Liquid Ultra/Pro. And CLU and P are both quite liquidy, and stay that way when between a bare die and the IHS. But between the IHS and heatsink, it hardens.

As I said, it's a mystery. People suspect the dispersing agent dries out, but I don't know how it'd dry out in one circumstance but not the other. As for alloying, it's technically just when the atoms of one mix with the atoms of the other, which I guess is the same thing as the amalgamating that happens with gallium or mercury on aluminum. I don't know what's happening, in any event. The only thing I can think of is some kind of electromigration, from an electric charge that travels through the TIM when it's between two pieces of metal.


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## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jamdox*
> 
> The P stands for "Pro," not PK-1, as in Coollaboratories Liquid Ultra/Pro. And CLU and P are both quite liquidy, and stay that way when between a bare die and the IHS. But between the IHS and heatsink, it hardens.
> 
> As I said, it's a mystery. People suspect the dispersing agent dries out, but I don't know how it'd dry out in one circumstance but not the other. As for alloying, it's technically just when the atoms of one mix with the atoms of the other, which I guess is the same thing as the amalgamating that happens with gallium or mercury on aluminum. I don't know what's happening, in any event. The only thing I can think of is some kind of electromigration, from an electric charge that travels through the TIM when it's between two pieces of metal.


Quoting an example, i found PK-1 to be really sticky ... But anyway i didn't delve THAT deep into chemistry to know what you're talking about


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## dennis97519

How about the Gelid GC extreme? It comes with EK CPU blocks right?


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## Stay Puft

MX-2 better then MX-4? Umm


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## VindalooJim

Seriously, in my opinion pretty much all thermal compounds are the same- Even toothpaste works well as a thermal compound for about an hour til it dries up.

People put too much emphasis on TIM. People who claim using a specific TIM lowers their temps by an amount of say 10c are misguided. Most you will see is 1-2c. How the TIM is applied is more important.


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## Stay Puft

I'm going to give pk1 a shot


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## Moparman

I did a compare on pk-1 an pk 3 an they are both extremely good. However the pk1 is much easier to spread than 3. But 3 was better by about 1-3c


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## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moparman*
> 
> I did a compare on pk-1 an pk 3 an they are both extremely good. However the pk1 is much easier to spread than 3. But 3 was better by about 1-3c


PK-3 you say. Maybe i'll give that one a shot instead


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## DaveLT

I go for a paste that is easier to apply, seriously. I hate harder to apply pastes like PK3, sure it performs better (sometimes) but usually only on high contact pressure
I had a paste i bought that had AS5 chemistry and it was much harder to apply than pk1 so it didn't really work very well when my heatsink had a subpar mounting pressure


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## dennis97519

Okay. I think the best two are CoolLabs Liquid Ultra and Gelid GC-extreme.


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## VindalooJim

There is only a degree or two difference between the worst performing TIM and the best TIM.


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## PedroC1999

Im wondering if MX-2 is still viable , I will need it for some CPU and GPU blocks and I go loads around the house


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## VindalooJim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PedroC1999*
> 
> Im wondering if MX-2 is still viable , I will need it for some CPU and GPU blocks and I go loads around the house


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VindalooJim*
> 
> There is only a degree or two difference between the worst performing TIM and the best TIM.


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## rss013

I'm having some good experience with the GC-2 Thermal from Gelid
Keeps my temps nice under 63C @ 100% load with 4.5GHZ


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## dennis97519

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rss013*
> 
> I'm having some good experience with the GC-2 Thermal from Gelid
> Keeps my temps nice under 63C @ 100% load with 4.5GHZ


OMG PRO ONLY USING TIM TO COOL CPU HOW DID YOU DO THAT I NEED TO LEARN FROM YOU SO PRO I'M A N00B

GOSH SERIOUSLY HOW DID YOU DO THAT WOW :O


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## Imprezzion

I just ordered some Liquid Ultra to compare to my PK-1 and to see if my 2500K is really capable of 5.2Ghz.

I tried it with the PK-1 but I always stop testing when she hits 80c. After 20 orso minutes I tapped 80c in LinX / IBT AVX so... Not viable for 24/7.

I hope to shave about 5c off of it with the Liquid Ultra and see if she can do at least 2 hours of LinX / IBT on 5.2Ghz (Needs about 1.456v for it i reckon)


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## VindalooJim

So many misguided people believing using one thermal paste over an over can yield large temperature drops.


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## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VindalooJim*
> 
> There is only a degree or two difference between the worst performing TIM and the best TIM.


BS. I have a thermal paste which compound is similar to AS5 and switching to PK1 gave me 5C better temps


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## Pike

Hmm. No test with copper grease. Too bad.


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## VindalooJim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> I have a thermal paste which compound is similar to AS5 and switching to PK1 gave me 5C better temps


Exactly my point. If you actually did get a 5C difference and it wasn't just a placebo effect or due to different ambient temps while testing then 5C is still the maximum difference anyone is likely to expect changing from one TIM to another. There are people out there who claim changing their TIM reduced their temperatures by huge amounts such as 10C which is ridiculous.


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## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VindalooJim*
> 
> Exactly my point. If you actually did get a 5C difference and it wasn't just a placebo effect or due to different ambient temps while testing then 5C is still the maximum difference anyone is likely to expect changing from one TIM to another. There are people out there who claim changing their TIM reduced their temperatures by huge amounts such as 10C which is ridiculous.


Wait, if you notice i am using chips with 65W TDP and 60W TDP ... Would be much more different if i was using say a i7-920. My chips are unbelievably low-leakage


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## Imprezzion

Well, if you go from something like Nexus TMP-1000 to CLU, you;'d notice 10c..







At least.


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## DiHydrogenMonOxide

It could be because the the two metals are creating a thermopile, a device that changes heat into an electric charge, this wouldn't happen between a metal and a non-metal. Then, that (very, very slight) electric charge might be causing a galvanic reaction between the paste and one of the metals causing the paste to corrode, or rust, making it hard.


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## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VindalooJim*
> 
> Exactly my point. If you actually did get a 5C difference and it wasn't just a placebo effect or due to different ambient temps while testing then 5C is still the maximum difference anyone is likely to expect changing from one TIM to another. There are people out there who claim changing their TIM reduced their temperatures by huge amounts such as 10C which is ridiculous.


It's possible to get around a 7c or 9c performance change, but you'd have to switch from the worst possible TIM to the best possible TIM XD As that's unlikely to be the case, it's more common for a 5c difference.

As to the original posters statement: Indigo Extreme is currently the /best/ however; Coollaboratories Liquid Ultra is REALLY REALLY close in performance to around less than a degree. The only thing about LIquid Ultra is it's a LOT less consistant than Indigo Extreme. Due to the nature of indigo extreme it's almost identical in performance between mounts, and Coollaboratories Liquid Ultra varies a bit, but at best it can match IX in performance. Coollaboratories is also a LOT easier to apply than IX and quite a bit cheaper.


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## clintwilks

prolimatech pk3


----------



## RnRollie

Perfect mating surfaces achieved by meticulous lapping will yield better results than any TIM

Except on IB & Haswell where there is a serious thermal barrier between chip & IHS courtesy of Intel wanting to make a few cents more profit per chip.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Perfect mating surfaces achieved by meticulous lapping will yield better results than any TIM
> 
> Except on IB & Haswell where there is a serious thermal barrier between chip & IHS courtesy of Intel wanting to make a few cents more profit per chip.










I'll drink to that.


----------



## bandots

i've just test Noctua NHT1 , better than MX3


----------



## clintwilks

N octua one is good..but seriously..if you'v not used prolimatech PK-2 or PK-3 ... its freakin amazing. i've used mx-3 / 4 and Tuniq's TX series TIM's....the prolimatech is by far the best ive used and either free or very inexpensive.


----------



## wimcle

My personal favorite, Thermaltake TG-1, best of the 'normal' pastes in my opinion.


----------



## thebufenator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clintwilks*
> 
> do not use liquid ultra or liquid pro on your IHS. it will corrode.


I have only seen it corrode the aliminum base of a heatsink, not the IHS.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebufenator*
> 
> I have only seen it corrode the aliminum base of a heatsink, not the IHS.


This thread just keeps getting necroed. XD

But what bufenator is saying is true. It's only an issue when used with aluminum as it has gallium in it. Gallium will obliterate aluminum, they don't get along well. In fact, it says right on the product page, "do not use with aluminum heatsink"


----------



## GOLDDUBBY

Coollaboratory Liquid Pro


----------



## bandots

TIM that above than 10 dolar i think is waste your money


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bandots*
> 
> TIM that above than 10 dolar i think is waste your money


Not really, when you're pushing a really heavy overclock a few degrees Celsius could be the difference between a more powerful overclock, or a lighter one. Liquid metal TIMs also tend to be a LOT more consistent between mounts.


----------



## Rar4f

So what's the top three best thermal paste so far for slightly above moderate overclocking?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rar4f*
> 
> So what's the top three best thermal paste so far for slightly above moderate overclocking?


*Thermal Paste Comparison, Part One: Applying Grease And More*

*Thermal Paste Comparison, Part Two: 39 Products Get Tested*

Read this important conclusion


----------



## Rar4f

What is meant by low or high pressure?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rar4f*
> 
> What is meant by low or high pressure?


High pressure -> aftermarket CPU coolers with back plates or tightly screwed water cooling block

vs.

Low pressure -> budget oriented CPU that's "snapped" into place with plastic pins.

This comes into play when...
Quote:


> If your cooler sports a back plate and applies lots of mounting pressure, the paste will spread further. As a rule of thumb, the lower the viscosity of the paste and the higher the heat sink's mounting pressure, the more your compound of choice will spread.


This is important to pay attention to because each compound has its own viscosity. Depending on the viscosity, the compound may be better suited for certain types of pressure; indicative of different types of CPU heat sinks.

So it's not just about finding the compound that transfers the most heat, it's about finding the compound that transfers the most heat that's most effective with your own setup (based on pressure)


----------



## Rar4f

So compound with high viscosity is appropriate for high pressure mounting e.g aftermarket coolers with backplate?
Also since Liquid pro (coolaboratory) is pretty good, would it work with cooler master hyper 212 evo? The Tom's Hardware project says something about aliminum and that it should not get in contact with the paste.

From what i can see the heatpipes of evo 212 is made of copper.

But i want to double check as i am a novice.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rar4f*
> 
> So compound with high viscosity is appropriate for high pressure mounting e.g aftermarket coolers with backplate?
> Also since Liquid pro (coolaboratory) is pretty good, would it work with cooler master hyper 212 evo? The Tom's Hardware project says something about aliminum and that it should not get in contact with the paste.
> 
> From what i can see the heatpipes of evo 212 is made of copper.
> 
> But i want to double check as i am a novice.


Right,
Quote:


> Only experienced, gutsy professionals should use it, and even then, it's both expensive and difficult to remove. Liquid Pro cannot be used with aluminum heat sinks, but can be used with copper- and nickel-plated ones.




I'm not sure why they make it sound so complicated to apply, but if it is, the Gelid Solutions seems like your next best bet.


----------



## Rar4f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Right,
> 
> *
> I'm not sure why they make it sound so complicated to apply*, but if it is, the Gelid Solutions seems like your next best bet.


My thoughts exactly. I couldn't find Gelid Solutions, and Liquid Pro is quite cheap here.
Isn't doing what this person does in video everything?



That doesn't look hard at all, just requires patience for most parts.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rar4f*
> 
> So compound with high viscosity is appropriate for high pressure mounting e.g aftermarket coolers with backplate?
> Also since Liquid pro (coolaboratory) is pretty good, would it work with cooler master hyper 212 evo? The Tom's Hardware project says something about aliminum and that it should not get in contact with the paste.
> 
> From what i can see the heatpipes of evo 212 is made of copper.
> 
> But i want to double check as i am a novice.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rar4f*
> 
> My thoughts exactly. I couldn't find Gelid Solutions, and Liquid Pro is quite cheap here.
> Isn't doing what this person does in video everything?
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't look hard at all, just requires patience for most parts.


Liquid Pro, Liquid Ultra, and pretty much all liquid metal thermal pastes, except indigo extreme, contain gallium. Gallium will absolutely obliterate aluminum. This is only the case if they are in direct contact. Most cooling towers use a copper base with copper heatpipes and aluminum fins, as aluminum is much cheaper and easier to machine/mill.

Gallium being the issue, since aluminum isn't in contact with typically it's not an issue. Do keep in mind, do not use TIMS with gallium if you have an aluminum mounting plate or aluminum IHS, which an aluminum IHS is highly improbable.

Gallium will not effect copper, brass, bronze, etc.


----------



## CptDanko

Coollabroatories liquid metal ultra
Just as good as indigo without the reflow bs


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptDanko*
> 
> Coollabroatories liquid metal ultra
> Just as good as indigo without the reflow bs


Liquid Ultra and Liquid Pro have nearly identical performance. Liquid pro supposedly has issues with frothing during spreading, and liquid ultra supposedly has issues with drying up after time. (After over a year if memory serves.)

I can find the reviews if you want some hard evidence instead of just my word. They performed within a degree or two, and one tests better than one on one mount, and the other on the other mount. Too far within the margin for error for a definitive superiority.

Indigo has the benefit of perfectly consistent mounts due to it's "reflow bs". CLLP and CLLU take some practice to spread properly from what I hear, well CLLP anyways. They also are not as consistent between mounts as IX, though they are VERY consistent compared to most TIMs.

It's not quite comparing apples to oranges, more along the lines of comparing apples to pears. Cool Laboratories Liquid Metal TIMS and IX both have their pros/cons. That's the game of building your PCs, figuring out which pros/cons you want.


----------



## clintwilks

I've used Pk-3, Artic MX-2 and MX-4, Tuniq TX3 and Artic Silver 5 on aftermarket air (Hyper 212 EVO/Thermaltake Frio), and aftermarket closd loop water cooling (COrsair H50, H60, H80 and H100) and PK-3 has blown away everything I've put up against it and I have run extensive and repeat tests with remounts of the cooler and reapplication of all TIMs.

IMO: Unless you are delidding an Ivy Bridge (I've been out of the game for a while so I'm not sure how the die TIM is on Haswelll so IDK if those get delidded or not), then I would never use Coollabs TIMs unless I'm in competitive benching. Otherwise, it's a HUGE mistake and waste of money.

PK-3 or Artic MX-4 is the way to go, pref Prolimatech PK-3.


----------



## CptDanko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZytheEKS*
> 
> Liquid Ultra and Liquid Pro have nearly identical performance. Liquid pro supposedly has issues with frothing during spreading, and liquid ultra supposedly has issues with drying up after time. (After over a year if memory serves.)
> 
> I can find the reviews if you want some hard evidence instead of just my word. They performed within a degree or two, and one tests better than one on one mount, and the other on the other mount. Too far within the margin for error for a definitive superiority.
> 
> Indigo has the benefit of perfectly consistent mounts due to it's "reflow bs". CLLP and CLLU take some practice to spread properly from what I hear, well CLLP anyways. They also are not as consistent between mounts as IX, though they are VERY consistent compared to most TIMs.
> 
> It's not quite comparing apples to oranges, more along the lines of comparing apples to pears. Cool Laboratories Liquid Metal TIMS and IX both have their pros/cons. That's the game of building your PCs, figuring out which pros/cons you want.


I don't need evidence I already heard about that too. But hey, Artic silver needs to be reapplied every once in a while as well.

In any case I just used antec formula 7. No curing time.


----------



## Rar4f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZytheEKS*
> 
> Liquid Pro, Liquid Ultra, and pretty much all liquid metal thermal pastes, except indigo extreme, contain gallium. Gallium will absolutely obliterate aluminum. This is only the case if they are in direct contact. Most cooling towers use a copper base with copper heatpipes and aluminum fins, as aluminum is much cheaper and easier to machine/mill.
> 
> Gallium being the issue, since aluminum isn't in contact with typically it's not an issue. Do keep in mind, do not use TIMS with gallium if you have an aluminum mounting plate or aluminum IHS, which an aluminum IHS is highly improbable.
> 
> Gallium will not effect copper, brass, bronze, etc.


I'll be having a i7 4770k, and the mounting plate will be from Evo 212.
I dont know if any of them have aluminum in them, cant seem to find the answer by googling it.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZytheEKS*
> 
> Liquid Pro, Liquid Ultra, and pretty much all liquid metal thermal pastes, except indigo extreme, contain gallium. Gallium will absolutely obliterate aluminum. This is only the case if they are in direct contact. Most cooling towers use a copper base with copper heatpipes and aluminum fins, as aluminum is much cheaper and easier to machine/mill.
> 
> Gallium being the issue, since aluminum isn't in contact with typically it's not an issue. Do keep in mind, do not use TIMS with gallium if you have an aluminum mounting plate or aluminum IHS, which an aluminum IHS is highly improbable.
> 
> Gallium will not effect copper, brass, bronze, etc.


Towers often use aluminum as a base and copper heatpipes as transfer medium. CLP and CLU contains gallium


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Towers often use aluminum as a base and copper heatpipes as transfer medium. CLP and CLU contains gallium


An aluminum base? That just seems wasteful. The base is the main point that transfers heat, and aluminum has half the thermal conductivity of copper.


----------



## jush

if you would have to choose between Tuniq Tx-4 or Noctua NT-H1 for a 2500k + H100, since those are the only two choices available here in my country, which one would you go for? thanks.


----------



## Scorpion667

I've tried quite a few.

My favorite by far has been Gelid GC Extreme. It's not very thick so it spreads well. No break-in time. Did better then MX-2, MX-4. I look forward to trying Prolimatech paste as well. Also, whatever thermalpaste comes stock on the H100 (shin-etsu variety) was amazing. I never got temps that good ever again on my lapped 2500k/h100 combo.

My least favorite: Indigo Extreme (PITA to apply)

Never really linked AS5 on my applications. Didn't perform well with imperfect (i.e non-lapped) CPU IHS. Also the break-in time sux. I like to apply it, fire up my rig and test, if its no good take it apart and do it again. Break - in doesn't allow this.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I've tried quite a few.
> 
> My favorite by far has been Gelid GC Extreme. It's not very thick so it spreads well. No break-in time. Did better then MX-2, MX-4. I look forward to trying Prolimatech paste as well. Also, whatever thermalpaste comes stock on the H100 (shin-etsu variety) was amazing. I never got temps that good ever again on my lapped 2500k/h100 combo.
> 
> My least favorite: Indigo Extreme (PITA to apply)
> 
> Never really linked AS5 on my applications. Didn't perform well with imperfect (i.e non-lapped) CPU IHS. Also the break-in time sux. I like to apply it, fire up my rig and test, if its no good take it apart and do it again. Break - in doesn't allow this.


Is the H100's thermal paste easy to spread? If it is then it's the G7783. If it's not then it's the X23-7783-D. I have 2 syringes of G7783 and I can only say i really like them
My vote as usual goes to the PK1 as it's 1) Even higher thermal conductivity (way higher in fact) than the G7783 even though i don't need that 2) I can safely say it's the lowest viscosity thermal paste out there

Worst thermal pastes i've come across :
IC Diamond (any of them)
XSPC K2 (the one bundled with their raystorms)
AS5 because of the break in time


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Is the H100's thermal paste easy to spread? If it is then it's the G7783. If it's not then it's the X23-7783-D. I have 2 syringes of G7783 and I can only say i really like them


It was quite viscous actually, comes preapplied on the waterblock.
Must be the X23-7783-D I suppose.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> It was quite viscous actually, comes preapplied on the waterblock.
> Must be the X23-7783-D I suppose.


I see. On paper X23 is better but in real-world trying to apply X23 without being pre-applied is a PITA. G7783 is not much worse but is so easy to spread (just a lil' bit worse) and I got them for half the price of a PK1 and 3/4 of X23

"Yes, on paper but on a surface?" - Or the original clarkson line "Yes hammond, on paper but on TARMAC?"


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> It was quite viscous actually, comes preapplied on the waterblock.
> Must be the X23-7783-D I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> I see. On paper X23 is better but in real-world trying to apply X23 without being pre-applied is a PITA. G7783 is not much worse but is so easy to spread (just a lil' bit worse) and I got them for half the price of a PK1 and 3/4 of X23
> 
> "Yes, on paper but on a surface?" - Or the original clarkson line "Yes hammond, on paper but on TARMAC?"
Click to expand...

Yes I've learned the hard way that on-paper performance is not always indicative of better performance especially since we're not dealing with perfectly flat surfaces most of the time. Usually thick thermal paste used on a concave CPU IHS results in a *pooling* effect in the middle and average temps at best. IC7 for example was worse then my MX2 on my concave 2500k, even though on paper IC7 is better. Once I lapped the CPU to perfection (the IC7 almost did it for me LOL that stuff is abrasive AF) the tides changed and IC7 started performing significantly better, provided I left the tube in some boiling water for a minute. Helped soften it up a bit.

Needless to say I doubt I'll be using IC7 again. That stuff is a pain to work with.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Yes I've learned the hard way that on-paper performance is not always indicative of better performance especially since we're not dealing with perfectly flat surfaces most of the time. Usually thick thermal paste used on a concave CPU IHS results in a *pooling* effect in the middle and average temps at best. IC7 for example was worse then my MX2 on my concave 2500k, even though on paper IC7 is better. Once I lapped the CPU to perfection (the IC7 almost did it for me LOL that stuff is abrasive AF) the tides changed and IC7 started performing significantly better, provided I left the tube in some boiling water for a minute. Helped soften it up a bit.
> 
> Needless to say I doubt I'll be using IC7 again. That stuff is a pain to work with.


Well, there you go.


----------



## rwisdaman

Kinda reviving a thread here......

I just got ahold of some thermal paste from a company called startech, and it is a metal oxide thermal CPU paste compound. It looks a lot like AS5 but before I use it I wanted to get anyone's opinion on it if they have used it in the past.

I have always used AS5 on my builds but it isn't available where I live, and this Startech stuff is all I could find. It is a silver based thermal grease and like I said it looks almost exactly like AS5.


----------



## IMKR

What's as5?
I'm also looking for some paste. Only if this thread was recent


----------



## stubass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> *What's as5*?
> I'm also looking for some paste. Only if this thread was recent


Artic Silver 5.. it is a brand..

Anyway, it may not be the top dog but I love Gelid GC-Extreme, it is a great TIM but I use it more for its ability not to freeze under subzero temps like creamique.


----------



## Cableaddict

Whatever happened to OCZ FREEZE?

4 years ago, it was in the #1 - #2 position on just about every test you could find.

I've used it on several rigs, with fantastic results. It's also super easy t apply & remove, and it's non-conductive.

Yet, in the 5-6 major shoot-outs I've found today, it isn't even tested nor mentioned.

The only negative I can think of is that it gets a little dry after maybe 2 years & should be re-applied, but htat's true of almost any thermal paste.

I will probably try PK-3 on my new 4960X build, and if I'm feeling brave I'll do a de-lid and add CLU, but still,

Am I the only fan of OCZ Freeze on the internet? I don't get it.


----------



## Cableaddict

Ah, I did a search using that there new-fangled "Google" thingy. (g)

So OCZ is gone & they took their secret formula WITH them? Didn't some company buy them out? You would think they'd continue the product, as it was so good.

Is it possible that one of the current TIM's is actually a re-branded Freeze? That stuff was wonderful.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cableaddict*
> 
> Ah, I did a search using that there new-fangled "Google" thingy. (g)
> 
> So OCZ is gone & they took their secret formula WITH them? Didn't some company buy them out? You would think they'd continue the product, as it was so good.
> 
> Is it possible that one of the current TIM's is actually a re-branded Freeze? That stuff was wonderful.


Keep a lookout for TOSHIBA "Freeze" TIM

Although, i'm not sure if Toshiba actually cares about that marketsegment


----------



## fmaxwell

I've spent hours pouring over comparison tests and reviews of thermal compounds and have come to the conclusion that *most of them are utterly worthless* -- except to the sites that publish them and derive revenue from ads. I write that as a recently retired engineer with more than 30 years of professional experience.

Even the most basic aspects of the scientific method are ignored, while conflating precision with accuracy -- that you can measure to 0.1, or even 0.01, degree precision doesn't mean that the measurement is accurate or repeatable. A proper test would include:


*Repeatability of Test Methodology:* Apply a thermal compound once and, without changing anything, run the same test five times and establish how consistent the results are. Are the results all within 0.1 degree of one another? Or do they vary by something more like 0.5 or even 1.0 degree?
*Repeatability of Application:* Apply the same thermal compound five times and establish the consistency of your results. If your five applications have a +/- 1 degree performance variation, then it makes no sense to rate dozens of pastes based on 0.1 degree differences.
*Consistency of Product:* Obtain the product from several sources. Is the appearance and viscosity the same? Are the cooling results consistent? For all the reviewer knows _Magic Therm Miracle Icy Cold Silver XG-7 Ultra Thermal Compound_ is just whatever gray thermal paste the vendor could get the cheapest that month.
*Stability over Time:* I've seen countless dried-out, crumbling messes that were once thermal compound. I don't want to know what will keep my CPU cool for an hour. I want to know what will keep it cool for a year or more. Those of us who don't change our thermal compound every few weeks need long-term tests on the "winners" of the shootouts.
Much of the problem with existing tests is that they are based on whatever computer system the reviewer has available at the moment. That makes long-term tests impractical and makes it impossible to compare results from year to year and site to site. Reviewers need to devise a test rig that replaces the CPUs with heated plates and standardizes on a particular heatsink. It does not need to employ a state of the art heatsink -- just something that is readily available through vendors like Mouser, Jameco, Digikey, etc. We don't care what temperature the author's CPU exhibits; we care about how well the thermal compound transfers heat.

I'm going to use the _GC Electronics Type Z9 Heat Sink Compound_ (silicone base with zinc oxide) that I have sitting in front of me. Unlike most of the boutique thermal compounds sold to hobbyists, this meets mil specs MIL-DTL-47113E and is tested in accordance with strict standards, both ASTM and military. All of the testing methodology is clearly described by the ASTM and the mil spec. All of the guaranteed results are published. GC Electronics doesn't tell me little stories about diamonds or pure silver, but they do tell me things like the Dielectric Strength, Thermal Conductivity, Volume Resistivity, Shelf Life, etc.


----------



## RnRollie

*You are right.*

There is a need for somebody who :

Is willing to sink A LOT of time and money in an ideal test setup AND apply the scientific testing method
is willing to go in "teaching mode " and educate the people on the subject
is willing to repeat the same things over again every week to somebody who is convinced that fans with blue leds cool better as fans with red leds
is willing to do even more as that...

while the only "payback" is being elevated to Guru status and having to spend even more time & money in testing & publishing & defending the results... every day/week again .. to somebody who claims that "while blue led fan cool indeed better as red led fans, green led fans come a close second"

*Are you that person?*

I ask because we could really use somebody who's an expert in a terrain, and is willing to "_go out there and slay them dragons_"... a bit like Martin (and Cathar before him) did on the watercooling front.

If you choose to accept this mission, these are the problems you'll be facing:

One could make a quite long list of TIMs & (un)lapped HS & IHS combinations and sort it by "best" cooling performance or otherwise.. But .... even if this list would be compiled by the worlds smartest minds after a 3-year long 1 billion USD study. ...
TWO things would happen in the next 30 sec after publication:

people would pull the numbers & quote them completely out of context
(the out-of-context quote will reach the internets equivalent of terminal velocity within hours , unfortunately never reaching escape velocity)
Somebody would claim the numbers to be wrong because he used his aunts 50 year old combined hygro/thermo & barometer to measure his semen based TIM on bling 1337 PC/HS and got different numbers; thus _"*those published numbers are wrong - FACT*"_
Since this "fact" is supported by the words _"dont contradict me you noob, i am admin on this site/forum and i'll ban you"_; it will also reach immortality status withing hours and thus will be dragged up -relevant or not- for the centuries to come.
.


----------



## fmaxwell

Warning: Crotchety reply follows...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> *You are right.*
> ...
> while the only "payback" is being elevated to Guru status


The payback is getting revenue from advertising and referral links because you're the only site providing scientifically valid testing of thermal compounds and, one would assume, other cooling products. How do you think that sites like tomshardware operate?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> and having to spend even more time & money in testing & publishing


The money you spend for a test rig that can do 20 tests at a time is far less than is spent on a single high-end PC that is typically used in the tests we see all over the net now. Except that now you don't have to devote weeks to the project, serially testing one product after another. Instead you apply them all, turn on the power to the heaters, and let the data recording commence.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> & defending the results... every day/week again .. to somebody who claims that "while blue led fan cool indeed better as red led fans, green led fans come a close second"


You only have to defend the results when you let ignorant people post public comments. *Knowledgeable people are supposed to write and ignorant people are supposed to read and learn, not publicly argue with the knowledgeable people.* I have no idea who came up with the idiotic notion that mouth-breathers should be allowed to publicly post whatever pops into their under-utilized heads.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> *Are you that person?*


No, I am retired and I am not looking for work. This is the kind of thing that should be done by a tomshardware, maximumpc, or hardwarecentral -- all of which derive income by publishing the results of product tests and comparisons, many of which are far more labor and time intensive than what I've proposed for thermal compound testing.


----------



## RnRollie

welcome to the "Grumpy Old Men"-club


----------



## fmaxwell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> welcome to the "Grumpy Old Men"-club










Thanks. I've lost a lot of patience after years of dealing which high-end audio where "magic" AC line cords sell for thousands of dollars (the record I've seen is $7K for an AC line cord).

A couple of the steps I proposed would be pretty easy and would yield very valuable information:

1. Establish repeatability of the test (one application of thermal compound, repeat test five times).
2. Establish repeatability of the application process (five tests with surface prep and thermal paste application before each test).

That establishes a margin of error. If you are +/1 0.7 degrees C in either step, then you can't rank thermal compounds based on 0.1C levels of precision in subsequent tests.

If a site does that, they become my go-to site for testing of this kind of product.


----------



## RnRollie

TBH, i think that too much magic is attributed to TIMs
Ok, CLU, CLP & IndigoX are in another league, but those aside, most can be gained by extreme lapping to reach the purest metal-to-metal contact.


----------



## Puck

There is a fairly new TIM called Thermene that looks to be better then traditional pastes, and while not as good as the liquid metal TIMs it should be easier to apply and safe for all materials. I ordered some recently and will be trying it out in about a week or two, since I was told by the manufacturer that it is not negatively affected by cold like many pastes are. It is a graphene power suspended in a glycerol base, and apparently does not shrink, dry out, or crack at 0c.

I am using CLP for my IHS, but my cold plate is aluminum so I have been pretty much forced to use Ceramique 2 since it is basically the only proven paste for extended low temps. If the Thermene works well, it may not only be a good all around pasted but also may be an option for the niche Phase/chiller/TEC guys that run their rigs as dailies and need a quality paste without jumping to Gallium based products.

Again, I have never tried it and have not seen a single third party review yet so I cannot recommend it at this time. All I have to go with are manufacturers claims of 5c cooler then TX4 and 11W/mK thermal conductivity. It is not too expensive, $15 for a tube that can do 15-25 CPUs.


----------



## ThijsH

Nice Puck, don't forget to post temperatures!


----------



## Maikel1309NL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hNgFNH7zhQ


----------



## Cableaddict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fmaxwell*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I've lost a lot of patience after years of dealing which high-end audio where "magic" AC line cords sell for thousands of dollars (the record I've seen is $7K for an AC line cord). .


Yeah, but see, those 7K cords only work if you coat them in that special "oil of Ebony" extract. You know, because Ebony is the most musical wood!

Say, I wonder: If I were to immerse my entire PC in a vat of Ebony oil, would it sound better?


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cableaddict*
> 
> Yeah, but see, those 7K cords only work if you coat them in that special "oil of Ebony" extract. You know, because Ebony is the most musical wood!
> 
> *
> 
> Say, I wonder: If I were to immerse my entire PC in a vat of Ebony oil, would it sound better?*


Only if you use dielectric unicorn sprinkles on the motherboard first.

-Z


----------



## GOLDDUBBY

This thread's so dead and derailed it should just be closed.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GOLDDUBBY*
> 
> This thread's so dead and derailed it should just be closed.


Many threads get derailed everyday as humour. A serious forum is one that won't stay alive for long.


----------



## WindowsTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GOLDDUBBY*
> 
> This thread's so dead and derailed it should just be closed.


Yes lets close this thread since it's 2015 not 2013 anymore


----------



## jleslie246

Id like to say I just remounted my CPU and SLI GPU waterblocks using Noctua NT-H1 and got surprisingly excellent result! Im seeing 5C degrees better than Switchtech paste that came with my blocks.


----------



## GOLDDUBBY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jleslie246*
> 
> Id like to say I just remounted my CPU and SLI GPU waterblocks using Noctua NT-H1 and got surprisingly excellent result! Im seeing 5C degrees better than Switchtech paste that came with my blocks.


Now put coolaboratory on there and watch it drop even further.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Oh god, it's back! Kill it with fire!.


----------



## dennis97519

lol just have to start a new thread called thermal paste review 2015


----------



## GOLDDUBBY

Link ?


----------



## jleslie246

Just keep this one going. Why not? I really am impressed with the Noctua NT-H1. Blows Artic Silver away too.


----------



## GOLDDUBBY

No! and here is the 2014 ed. Thermal Paste thread,

http://www.overclock.net/t/1511818/thermal-paste-2014-edition#post_23449252


----------



## ZytheEKS

Will an admin please just end this? This is painful...


----------

