# The Bulldozer Blog is Live



## konspiracy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
We are getting set to re-structure our blog site and there will be a dedicated Bulldozer section that will launch with the new site. Here are the first 2 entries.

Introduction to the Bulldozer Blog:
http://bit.ly/aogYzM

What is Bulldozer:
http://bit.ly/dzPxJt

What you will see in the Bulldozer Blog in the near future:

* "Bulldozer 20 Questions" - we're reviving the popular 20 questions blog, we'll take the best public questions and answer them in the blog over a series of postings.
* Bulldozer technical blog - we'll have our engineers providing some technical details after the Hot Chips presentation
* Bulldozer client blog - yes, even though I spend my life in the server world, there will be a client blog to talk about how Bulldozer will impact the client world.

As always, we don't discuss launch dates, actual performance, pricing or engineering milestones, but look forward to seeing a lot of new information coming out in the future.

Be sure to bookmark the Bulldozer Blog; in the future we will have some syndication tools that allow us to keep you in touch and subscribed to all Bulldozer information.


Thank you man!


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## godofdeath

my question is, is it am3 compatible or some newer socket?


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## Detroitsoldier

Nice! Thanks so much for the info!
Thanks for being active here, too!
Edit: Woah woah woah. Wth is Bobcat?
Edit 2: Most popular rumor is that Bulldozer will be AM3+ and compatible with today's motherboards, though I doubt you'll get the full potential if you do use an old board.


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## CryWin

Nice.


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## konspiracy

Quote:

We've designed a platform specification that supports higher speed and higher capacity than what we offer today, but we do have to be realistic - our technology partners will probably support those options that are JEDEC compliant and commercially available at the time of launch
Interesting


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## JF-AMD

There will be a blog in the future that will address desktop sockets. I am a server guy.

Watch for the "20 questions" blog. That will have an email address that you can forward your questions to. We'll answer them online.


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## superj1977

This comes at a good time for me as im gona be planning a new 2nd gaming rig so me and my son can play games on LAN in the next 4-6 weeks and had been looking at the new amd 6cores but was a little put off by the performance vs an i7 930 when o/c.

But this now means i could just go amd 6 core until the new cpu is out next year.


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## SmokinWaffle

Hm, I'll definitely keep a close eye on this, see if you guys can give me a good reason to go back to AMD.


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## Sozin

Awesome, can't wait for this.


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## mimart7

I'm excited, good work! I can hardly wait to read more.


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## murderbymodem

Quote:

This new core design is planned as the basis for our next generation AMD Opteronâ„¢ processors, as well as our high end client products.
Does anyone know if the Bulldozer Opterons will be a server socket, or if they will just be AM3? I loved my 939 Opteron 148, I'd love to use another Opteron in the future, but buying an expensive server motherboard is a no go.


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## redhat_ownage

all i want to know is how they react to -75C to -180C.


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redmist* 
Does anyone know if the Bulldozer Opterons will be a server socket, or if they will just be AM3? I loved my 939 Opteron 148, I'd love to use another Opteron in the future, but buying an expensive server motherboard is a no go.

Server processors fit in server sockets (C32 and G34).


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## andos

-faints-


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## superj1977

So,right, im assuming that the socket type for this new upcoming cpu is not yet announced?

Or is it basically going to be a direct upgrade path for the same type of motherboard that runs the 1090t ?

Id love to know as im putting another rig together soon and if i can buy an amd setup with 1090t now and upgrade to this better bulldozer cpu next year on same board then im in!









Anyone?


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## lem18

Quote:


Originally Posted by *superj1977* 
So,right, im assuming that the socket type for this new upcoming cpu is not yet announced?

Or is it basically going to be a direct upgrade path for the same type of motherboard that runs the 1090t ?

Id love to know as im putting another rig together soon and if i can buy an amd setup with 1090t now and upgrade to this better bulldozer cpu next year on same board then im in!









Anyone?









It's rumoured that there will be Bulldozer CPUs for existing AM3 motherboards (dependent on BIOS updates from manufacturers of course). Personally I think it's very likely. There is also a rumoured socket AM3r2 (perhaps analogous to AM2/AM2+).

On the server side, the sockets for Bulldozer already exist in the form of socket G34 and C32 (Opteron 6000 and 4000 series).


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## godofdeath

i really hope it is am3 because I do not feel like upgrading again


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## superj1977

Hmmm,like i say im building in 4-8 weeks so im gona keep an eye on here to see if the socket compatability is a bit more clearer.

I would love to be able to buy an amd 1090t and mobo for now and next year just swap out the cpu for this more powerfull one,bulldozer.

Hopefully i can do this otherwise its off for an i7 920,no way im paying for an 980x they can get bent!


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## lem18

Quote:


Originally Posted by *superj1977* 
Hmmm,like i say im building in 4-8 weeks so im gona keep an eye on here to see if the socket compatability is a bit more clearer.

I would love to be able to buy an amd 1090t and mobo for now and next year just swap out the cpu for this more powerfull one,bulldozer.

Hopefully i can do this otherwise its off for an i7 920,no way im paying for an 980x they can get bent!

What were you planning on upgrading your i7-920 to? From what I've seen around on the web, Sandy Bridge (Intel's next architecture) is coming in two new sockets (LGA1155 and LGA2011). More chance of an upgrade with AMD. 1090T, do it







(yes I'm an AMD fan)


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## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
We are getting set to re-structure our blog site and there will be a dedicated Bulldozer section that will launch with the new site. Here are the first 2 entries.

Introduction to the Bulldozer Blog:
http://bit.ly/aogYzM

What is Bulldozer:
http://bit.ly/dzPxJt

What you will see in the Bulldozer Blog in the near future:

* "Bulldozer 20 Questions" - we're reviving the popular 20 questions blog, we'll take the best public questions and answer them in the blog over a series of postings.
* Bulldozer technical blog - we'll have our engineers providing some technical details after the Hot Chips presentation
* Bulldozer client blog - yes, even though I spend my life in the server world, there will be a client blog to talk about how Bulldozer will impact the client world.

As always, we don't discuss launch dates, actual performance, pricing or engineering milestones, but look forward to seeing a lot of new information coming out in the future.

Be sure to bookmark the Bulldozer Blog; in the future we will have some syndication tools that allow us to keep you in touch and subscribed to all Bulldozer information.

lol John Fruehe?

OMG...ohaithere









Thanks for letting us know...wish we could convince you to give us some early performance comparisons but that's okay. Thanks for posting.


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## TheOcelot

Looks great! Are you really John Fruehe???


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## Gnomepatrol

running to the store to get popcorn when i get back spamming f5 on the blog


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## Fear of Oneself

Quote:


Originally Posted by *superj1977* 
So,right, im assuming that the socket type for this new upcoming cpu is not yet announced?

Or is it basically going to be a direct upgrade path for the same type of motherboard that runs the 1090t ?

Id love to know as im putting another rig together soon and if i can buy an amd setup with 1090t now and upgrade to this better bulldozer cpu next year on same board then im in!









Anyone?









I read the links.
It's going to be AM3,

Quote:

Just to make sure that everyone is up to speed on what Bulldozer is â€" a brand new design featuring up to 8 cores for client products and up to 16 cores for server products. Bulldozer will feature a new floating point unit that can support up to 256-bit floating point execution, which will boost the performance for technical applications that rely on floating point math. *There will be some new software instructions that will be supported, allowing for greater performance and flexibility, but, it will be backwards compatible so you wonâ€™t need to change anything to start using the processor*. We will be introducing this processor in 2011, and as we get closer weâ€™ll get more granular on the actual availability.


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## Gnomepatrol

i loves the drop in a new cpu and go go go of amd


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## DjiXas

Can't wait!

Will you please share a back-story of Bulldozer codename? Who thought about it, what were other alternatives, etc? This guy deserves a medal


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## gunner05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 









Can't wait!

Will you please share a back-story of Bulldozer codename? Who thought about it, what were other alternatives, etc? This guy deserves a medal









I'm pretty sure that's the picture they had in mind when they came up with the name


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## GanjaSMK

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
Will you please share a back-story of Bulldozer codename? Who thought about it, what were other alternatives, etc?


Please?! I second this, hopefully more people will too.


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## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOcelot*


Looks great! Are you really John Fruehe???


Pretty sure. At least my wife hasn't said anything that would lead me to believe that I am not.

I don't owe you money, do I? In that case I am Stan Kowalski.


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## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DjiXas*











Can't wait!

Will you please share a back-story of Bulldozer codename? Who thought about it, what were other alternatives, etc? This guy deserves a medal










Don't know much about how it started. All of the older code names were hammers (the original architecture was called "hammer".)

So you had jackhammer, sledgehammer, etc. But, alas, no MC Hammer (where is the love?)

So as we moved to the new architecture we needed something bigger, thus you have bulldozer for the big core and bobcat for the small core - both are earth movers.


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Don't know much about how it started. All of the older code names were hammers (the original architecture was called "hammer".)

So you had jackhammer, sledgehammer, etc. But, alas, *no MC Hammer (where is the love?)*

So as we moved to the new architecture we needed something bigger, thus you have bulldozer for the big core and bobcat for the small core - both are earth movers.

And this is why AMD > Intel









But seriously... this is delicious news


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## superj1977

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fear of Oneself* 
I read the links.
It's going to be AM3,

Ok cool,i have allready read the links but im new to AMD cpu' and boards so wasnt quite sure what type of socket exactly.

The more people say thet are sure that bulldozer will also be on AM3 the more im looking at an AMD setup for my new 2nd rig.


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Don't know much about how it started. All of the older code names were hammers (the original architecture was called "hammer".)

So you had jackhammer, sledgehammer, etc. But, alas, no MC Hammer (where is the love?)

So as we moved to the new architecture we needed something bigger, thus you have bulldozer for the big core and bobcat for the small core - both are earth movers.

Hmm, can we expect something like

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2937

It was one of the most fascinating stories, ever


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## el gappo

Hopefully JF will write it up and it will be a good laugh








Can't wait to get my mits on a 8 core.









Don't like the no benchmarks bit









Think you need to send one out so I can not break NDA


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
Hmm, can we expect something like

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2937

It was one of the most fascinating stories, ever 

Yeah, we'll probably do something like that.


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## TheLastPriest

Wahoo, looking forward to see what Bulldozer does...


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheLastPriest* 
Wahoo, looking forward to see what Bulldozer does...

It bulldozes sandy bridges


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## godofdeath

can you tell everyone that the bulldozer wont be16 core or threads or w/e for those who keep on thinking of intel and their hyperthreading


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## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
can you tell everyone that the bulldozer wont be16 core or threads or w/e for those who keep on thinking of intel and their hyperthreading

My guess that it's a negatory because that info will be revealed at Hot Chips On August 24th around 5pm...in whatever timezone Stanford is located.

However, from the numerous people that have corrected me...it's 8 integer cores / 4 floating points that can split into 8 and that's where the better threading comes into play.

Well JF, I may be only be 1 consumer but this is the fact of the matter..AMD has a loyal customer for life from me. ATI on the other hand..I go with bang for buck as that's how I roll but CPU's will always be AMD.


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## StockGHzFTW

I only have to say one thing - please don't make any $1000 CPUs.


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## Nightbird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StockGHzFTW* 
I only have to say one thing - please don't make any $1000 CPUs.

Unless the next great thing after silicon arrives and offers some serious performance increase, then you're forgiven for recouping the high cost of building fabs from enthusiasts.


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## Metonymy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
I am a server guy

Can you get the "other" guy to join this forum and possibly answer some questions as well?


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## el gappo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metonymy* 
Can you get the "other" guy to join this forum and possibly answer some questions as well?









"other guy" is on here to. Nobody will be talking much about this any time soon hence the blog


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
can you tell everyone that the bulldozer wont be16 core or threads or w/e for those who keep on thinking of intel and their hyperthreading

Server will be 8 cores, 8 threads and 16 cores 16 threads.

Client will be 8 cores, 8 threads.


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## Fear of Oneself

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metonymy* 
Can you get the "other" guy to join this forum and possibly answer some questions as well?









Here's the guy you're looking for

Quote:


Originally Posted by *el gappo* 
"other guy" is on here to. Nobody will be talking much about this any time soon hence the blog









^


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## DjiXas

So how much new info can we expect at chip con? Hopefully, you won't just "explain" old info all over


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## Blameless

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
I thought 8 cores will have 16 threads, so it will show 16 CPUs in task manager?

No, no one (credible) ever said that.

Each "module" has two cores, but each core is one thread.


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blameless* 
No, no one (credible) ever said that.

Each "module" has two cores, but each core is one thread.

Yeah, I realized what nonsense it was and quickly edited it







You beat me though.

It's very early morning here.

And no, it's not an excuse for my stupidness.


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## DjiXas

I have an unrelated question, not sure if you can answer that, but anyway...

Why AMD followed nVidias everyones hated renaming scheme for some off the ATI mobility products?

I for once respect/ed AMD for no such practices.


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## Tator Tot

This thread is now a sticky. That way anyone traveling to this section of the forum can see it


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## mimart7

About time, thank you very much.


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## FlanK3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Hopefully JF will write it up and it will be a good laugh








Can't wait to get my mits on a 8 core.









Don't like the no benchmarks bit









Think you need to send one out so I can not break NDA










tell my about it







.


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## mimart7

August 24th isn't that far away. Are there, yet? Are we there, yet? Are we there, yet?


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## thestef

Whatâ€™s up August 24th???


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## mimart7

Hot Chips, and some Bulldozer details being given to the press.


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## XX55XX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thestef* 
Whatâ€™s up August 24th???

It's the day that AMD reveals Bulldozer to the world, in detail.


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## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mimart7*


Hot Chips, and some Bulldozer details being given to the press.


It should be a good range of details given to the press. The only thing we should be missing are exact model numbers, clock speeds and exact performance benchmarks. Those shouldn't be released until about a week or so before the CPU's go on sale. Well model numbers and clock speeds before hand and benchmarks before release. They should also release TDP before the release of the CPU before the benchmarks but who knows. The biggest thing about Hot Chips though is that, hopefully, they'll release a better time frame for the Zambezi and Interlagos release dates. Something more specific like Q1 2011 or Q4 2010







I'm hoping for the latter.


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## KRAZYTRUCKER

Hopefully Santa will come this year, driving a BULLDOZER!


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## DjiXas

When is the new article coming out? 

Also, as it has integrated GPU, will it be able to work hand in hand with a separate GPU during intensive tasks, like gaming, etc? Sort of "Cross fire", 2600 in my case.


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## eseb1

Oh I can't wait.









I guess I'll be buying a new mobo and ram now, and continue using my good ol' 720 until this comes out.


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## rusky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
When is the new article coming out? 

Also, as it has integrated GPU, will it be able to work hand in hand with a separate GPU during intensive tasks, like gaming, etc? Sort of "Cross fire", 2600 in my case.

Only Bobcat has an integrated GPU which is for mobile applications. The desktop variant, Bulldozer, is CPU only.


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rusky1* 
Only Bobcat has an integrated GPU which is for mobile applications. The desktop variant, Bulldozer, is CPU only.

Bobcat will be desktop & mobile.


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## thestef

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Bobcat will be desktop & mobile.


If it is in fact GPU integrated for both mobile and desktop, will it be a high performance GPU such as the non integrated video card we can currently purchase from ATI/AMD ? or will it be one of those cheep on board video card you get with those pre-packaged computers? will it be using the motherboard memory or some type of advance GPU/CPU on board memory? if it will be using the motherboard DDR3 memory, does that mean that the GPU will have slower memory?

This on board GPU raises a lot questions in my book.... and I'm even wondering if it will be as good as what people expect. Will it be just another way for a chip company's to make extra $$$$ by bypassing the motherboard manufacturer by offering a on board video card on the CPU itself instead of the integrated motherboard video cards?

I don't want to think to far a head but it seems to me that the future competition between all these hardware company's is pointing in the same direction. They are all trying to integrate every component and every technology in 1 single part/device, GPU, CPU, memory, storage, etc, etc.


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thestef* 
This on board GPU raises a lot questions in my book.... and I'm even wondering if it will be as good as what people expect. Will it be just another way for a chip company's to make extra $$$$ by bypassing the motherboard manufacturer by offering a on board video card on the CPU itself instead of the integrated motherboard video cards?

Think about this: Today, MB manufacturers are buying the GPU from the CPU vendor in many (if not most) cases. There is extra routing, extra sockets, and extra validation involved, as well as having to power the GPU from different rails.

A Fusion CPU will reduce a lot of the cost for the MB manufacturers and make the development of new boards easier.


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rusky1* 
Only Bobcat has an integrated GPU which is for mobile applications. The desktop variant, Bulldozer, is CPU only.

Isn't Bulldozer a Fusion line product?


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
Isn't Bulldozer a Fusion line product?

no


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## DjiXas

But it was supposed to have GPU cores, right?

Codenamed the Falcon family.
Announced in AMD Technology Analyst Day July 2007.
Incorporation with GPU cores.
Target market:
Originally planned with the codenamed Bulldozer processor cores focusing on desktop market with TDP of 10 to 100 Watts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion

Guess I missed something during the wait.


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## JF-AMD

2007 was soooooo 3 years ago.


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
2007 was soooooo 3 years ago.

Yeah  But since I started following hardware news (again) just a year ago... 

Can we expect any new articles this week?


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## JF-AMD

There will be new articles every week or so. The next one queued up is the "20 questions" blog.

The following week I will be out on business, so don't expect anything until we are back from Hot Chips the following week.


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## thestef

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Think about this: Today, MB manufacturers are buying the GPU from the CPU vendor in many (if not most) cases. There is extra routing, extra sockets, and extra validation involved, as well as having to power the GPU from different rails.

A Fusion CPU will reduce a lot of the cost for the MB manufacturers and make the development of new boards easier.

I guess my simplified version of my question... will this integrated graphics chip really be high-performance? or just one of those cheep on board graphics card? If it uses the on board memory I already see a disadvantages (DDR3 compared to the current DDR5).


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thestef* 
I guess my simplified version of my question... will this integrated graphics chip really be high-performance? or just one of those cheep on board graphics card? If it uses the on board memory I already see a disadvantages (DDR3 compared to the current DDR5).

GDDR5 & DDR3 are not the same thing and cannot be directly compared.

They both have different Pro's and Con's.

Any RAM labeled GDDR is not running the same as RAM labled DDR.

For a basic explanation, read thsi.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/168


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## Obakemono

Ok, as I have been reading about all of the new items coming out, the APU (Bobcat?) will be different for the motherboard manufactures to make? I mean since the GPU resides with the CPU on the same socket, will the GPU paths be different to the video outputs on the mobo rather than an on-mobo GPU? I gather this will require a different tapeout of the mobo pathway construction? Also, how will the APU use memory for the GPU portion?


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## JF-AMD

Yes, the APU will have different sockets. I am not using them in servers, so I really don't know much about them other than that.


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## TheBigC

Awesome!


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## DjiXas

Hey, it's my bday today.

JF-AMD, why don't you leak some info?


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## JF-AMD

Because I have grown accustomed to the taste of food and sleeping indoors. Those two are highly under-rated.


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## jfizz84

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jf-amd*


because i have grown accustomed to the taste of food and sleeping indoors. Those two are highly under-rated.


lol.


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## DjiXas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Because I have grown accustomed to the taste of food and sleeping indoors. Those two are highly under-rated.


I have some delicious cake









We need to do something with this topic, fill it with replies, so my mind stays occupied while waiting for info.


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## DjiXas

Speaking of unrelated stuff, can we expect any details about 6xxx series sometime this month? Or it's more likely to be revealed in September?

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100811PD223.html

"AMD to officially announce the series in October"

Is this correct? Or will we at least get some bits of details before October?


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## JF-AMD

I can say that I REALLY don't know anything about GPUs, only the FireStream GPUs that are used for compute.

If you have bulldozer questions, ask them here:

http://bit.ly/a4OJwA


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## DjiXas

Quote:

We'll try to get to all of your questions over the upcoming weeks, and hopefully give the designers and engineers an opportunity to answer some of them directly for you. Issue your question through Twitter at #AMD20Q or the form below.
Can you please be more specific? Will they be answered this month? Thanks.


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## Obakemono

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Because I have grown accustomed to the taste of food and sleeping indoors. Those two are highly under-rated.

LMAO!


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
2007 was soooooo 3 years ago.

May i ask why have you decided to remove gpu from Bulldozer core? Was it because of the servers? Also, why it made sense to have gpu integrated into Bulldozer back then?


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## Geforce_GTX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
May i ask why have you decided to remove gpu from Bulldozer core? Was it because of the servers? Also, why it made sense to have gpu integrated into Bulldozer back then?

The on-die GPU plan got canceled for Bulldozer?
I cannot find any news of this. Is On-die GPU still going for the mobile series?


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
Can you please be more specific? Will they be answered this month? Thanks.

yes


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## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
May i ask why have you decided to remove gpu from Bulldozer core? Was it because of the servers? Also, why it made sense to have gpu integrated into Bulldozer back then?

I am not aware of an on-die GPU for bulldozer, you must be thinking of bobcat or llano.


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
I am not aware of an on-die GPU for bulldozer, you must be thinking of bobcat or llano.

I've got a simple question; how do you say "Llano" ?

Do you say it the same as it's pronounced in Spanish? Or is it romanized?


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## JF-AMD

It is pronounced lan-o, like Dan-o from the old hawaii 5-0 show (yeah, yeah, I sound like an old man now.)

It is a river in texas (a town also), not that far from austin, actually.


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
It is pronounced lan-o, like Dan-o from the old hawaii 5-0 show (yeah, yeah, I sound like an old man now.)

It is a river in texas (a town also), not that far from austin, actually.

Well in Spanish it actually means "plains"









But in Spanish (as in Proper or Spain's version) it would be Yano. As the Double L makes the Y noise.


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## jprovido

what's the socket of the server processors? does the interlagos 16core cpus work on am3?


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## decimator

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jprovido* 
what's the socket of the server processors? does the interlagos 16core cpus work on am3?

There won't be a 16-core desktop Bulldozer CPU (Zambezi), at least not initially. The 16-core CPU will be Interlagos, for servers (Socket G34). I'm pretty sure you can't put a server CPU in a desktop mobo. That hasn't been done since the Socket 939 days.


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## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
I am not aware of an on-die GPU for bulldozer, you must be thinking of bobcat or llano.

Hi,

Sorry, maybe it was a different CPU that was canceled then?

The reason I ask is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion

Quote:

Codenamed the Falcon family.
Announced in AMD Technology Analyst Day July 2007.
Incorporation with GPU cores.
Target market:
_*Originally* planned with the codenamed *Bulldozer* processor cores focusing on desktop market with TDP of *10 to 100 Watts*._
An option to be implemented into mobile phones, UMPC and small multimedia devices [8], with the codenamed Bobcat processor core focusing on low power consumption (1 to 10 Watts TDP) computations for handheld devices such as UMPC.
So I guess it's Falcon? Is Falcon = Bobcat = "old gen" Bulldozer (which is actually NOT a Bulldozer) but with lower TDP? As the last paragraph is sort of misleading for me.

Here's how I understand it: *we planned* a desktop version with an integrated GPU core (Falcon) that was supposed to be called Bulldozer but is not, so we tweaked the architecture and changed codename to Bobcat. Then, we got rid of the idea completely to to have a GPU already integrated into desktop version CPU (would like to know why, if possible). Is this correct?

Can you shed some light on that?


----------



## JF-AMD

In 2007 BD was going to be a 45nm product. When we decided to make the change, do it right and move it to 32m everything changed.

Anything that was written about BD in 2007 is probably not accurate.


----------



## Blaze051806

very much looking forward to bulldozer =). will check the blog


----------



## Artikbot

Gotta love it.

When its launch gets closer, I'll sell the 1055T and get a Bulldozy. Hope some BIOS updates let me unlock at least the juice that AM2+ boards got outta Thubans


----------



## Phobos223

ahhh the ol' 939 days... those were good days


----------



## DjiXas

Not sure if you know about such things, but can you please comment on this:

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ment-will.html

It's not true, right?

*Please, let it not be true, please let it not be true...


----------



## JF-AMD

I am a server guy, I don't know what they are doing up in Canada.


----------



## Hawk777th

Hey JF I am guessing that you cant answer this yet but what socket is the Client Bulldozer? If you will lose your bed and food I can wait till the 24th lol! Thanks for all the great info so far!


----------



## JF-AMD

We won't be talking about sockets on the 24th. We will be talking about some of the sub architecture components. I don't want people getting their hopes up thinking this is some kind of "mass unveiling" of data. We are talking about how some of the pieces are built and what they do.

Pretty sure the heavens won't open up during hot chips - they never have in the past, it's just not that kind of show.


----------



## Tommie

You do realize that the question: "will the first generation of Bulldozer CPU's for desktops be supported by any current board?" is very important for a lot of people.
People wanna know if AM3 is an upgrade path.


----------



## decimator

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tommie* 
You do realize that the question: "will the first generation of Bulldozer CPU's for desktops be supported by any current board?" is very important for a lot of people.
People wanna know if AM3 is an upgrade path.

No matter how important this question is, he's still a server guy and this is a client question.

Also, it's already been hinted at that Bulldozer will work on AM3 platforms. The server Bulldozer CPU's drop into existing sockets, so take that for what it's worth.


----------



## Hawk777th

I hope it drops into AM3 Boards. But if it doesnt its not that big of a deal a great AMD mobo is like $150. We still dont know how expensive its going to be either.


----------



## FlanK3r

*Tommie* : AM3r2 = AM3+=AM3 revision number 2, so...? ,-) Here is your answer


----------



## Hawk777th

So no dice on a current AM3 board.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hawk777th* 
So no dice on a current AM3 board.

No it's just a BIOS update away.


----------



## DjiXas

I have a question:

In your personal opinion, do you think that x86 architecture will ever become obsolete? Any estimates?

If so, will we eventually see 128 bit architecture, lets say within 5 years? Will it depend on x86 (x86-128, meaning cross-license agreement with Intel) or you can actually develop something that replaces x86 and does not require license at all?

Or it is possible with quantum computing only.


----------



## JF-AMD

Obviously, over time, everything becomes obsolete. I have a stack of QIC-80 backup tapes to prove it.

The real question is how does technology morph. Tapes are tough because it is a physical medium. Software, on the other hand, can have emulation layers to keep it alive. There are tons of NT 4.0 servers running in VMware virtual machines today. Not emulation like you would normally think of it, but emulation nonetheless.

The drive to 64-bit was driven not by 64-bit instructions, but by the need for accessing more than the 4GB that 32-bit memory addressing could handle (without tricks).

When things go to 128-bit is off in the future, way out there. But it will probably happen. Saying 64-bit is enough is like saying nobody will ever want more than 640K.

The challenge with replacing x86 is that there is so much legacy code out there. It is like trying to change the engine on an airplane. In flight.


----------



## CryWin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tommie* 
You do realize that the question: "will the first generation of Bulldozer CPU's for desktops be supported by any current board?" is very important for a lot of people.
People wanna know if AM3 is an upgrade path.

It's not up to AMD. As always there will be some manufacturers that will choose not to provide a bios update. It's the same with every chip release.


----------



## lightsout

So hot chips tomorrow then huh.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
The challenge with replacing x86 is that there is so much legacy code out there. It is like trying to change the engine on an airplane. In flight.









That was a good one, thanks John.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lightsout* 
So hot chips tomorrow then huh.

Yes. Hopefully, someone from AMD will publish full speech (I am sure there is some sort of script) or all the details just as Mike starts talking, so we won't have to wait for 24 hours


----------



## decimator

Hey, JF-AMD, could you comment on the recent MaximumPC article about Bulldozer? Specifically this part...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaxPC article*
AMD officials say Bulldozer is being targeted at servers and performance desktop machines. The good news is that Bulldozer will be drop-in compatible with most current high-end servers. The bad news is that it won't be compatible with existing AM3 boards. Instead, AMD says it will introduce a new AM3+ socket. These sockets will be backward compatible with older chips so you could drop a Phenom II X6 in it. According to AMD, Bulldozer will be built on a new 32nm process at Global Foundries.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new..._bulldozer_cpu

Your blog entry a couple weeks ago states this...

Quote:

Just to make sure that everyone is up to speed on what Bulldozer is - a brand new design featuring up to 8 cores for client products and up to 16 cores for server products. Bulldozer will feature a new floating point unit that can support up to 256-bit floating point execution, which will boost the performance for technical applications that rely on floating point math. *There will be some new software instructions that will be supported, allowing for greater performance and flexibility, but, it will be backwards compatible so you won't need to change anything to start using the processor.* We will be introducing this processor in 2011, and as we get closer we'll get more granular on the actual availability.
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/02...ulldozer-blog/

Now were you simply talking about the server side when you said that or the server and client sectors together? I really hope that MaxPC article is wrong...


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *decimate* 
Hey, JF-AMD, could you comment on the recent MaximumPC article about Bulldozer? Specifically this part...

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new..._bulldozer_cpu

Your blog entry a couple weeks ago states this...

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/02...ulldozer-blog/

Now were you simply talking about the server side when you said that or the server and client sectors together? I really hope that MaxPC article is wrong...

I actually hope it's true (*dodges rock). Since it's a new arch, I don't want them to cripple Bulldozer in any way just to make it AM3 compatible.

Progress = awesome.

All I want now is PCIe 3.0 with Zambezi release, so I can use my new build for many years to come.

Also, this


----------



## AblueXKRS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
The challenge with replacing x86 is that there is so much legacy code out there. It is like trying to change the engine on an airplane. In flight.

Actually, it's more like trying to keep the engine. Whilst changing the 747 into an F16. In flight.


----------



## Enfluenza

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
I actually hope it's true (*dodges rock). Since it's a new arch, I don't want them to cripple Bulldozer in any way just to make it AM3 compatible.

Progress = awesome.

All I want now is PCIe 3.0 with Zambezi release, so I can use my new build for many years to come.

Also, this










*throws more rocks*
honestly, i hopethat bulldozer is backwards compatible.
they could just underclock the transfer rate in the AM3 socket, and uberclock it in the AM3+ socket!
that way every1 wins!
but i hope in 2012 AMD changes the socket to LGA.
and then the end will come, lol


----------



## Sickened1

Good to hear things are going well enough for bulldozer. Still waiting for ATI HD 7000 series GPU's and then ill pick up an AM3+ mobo, 8 core black edition bulldozer, and a couple 7870's.


----------



## Somenoob

Quote:


Originally Posted by *decimate* 
Hey, JF-AMD, could you comment on the recent MaximumPC article about Bulldozer? Specifically this part...

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new..._bulldozer_cpu

Your blog entry a couple weeks ago states this...

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/02...ulldozer-blog/

Now were you simply talking about the server side when you said that or the server and client sectors together? I really hope that MaxPC article is wrong...

He sounds like he is talking about software.
Bulldozer on AM3 is uncertain as far as I care. Conflicting roadmaps (AM3 and AM3+) don't inspire confidence.


----------



## Hawk777th

JF said he would be gone this week grrrr wish he could confirm the AM3 or not grrrr. Not a big deal to get another board just would have liked to have used this one.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hawk777th* 
JF said he would be gone this week grrrr wish he could confirm the AM3 or not grrrr. Not a big deal to get another board just would have liked to have used this one.

Here's what John might say: I am a server guy


----------



## overclockerjames

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
We are getting set to re-structure our blog site and there will be a dedicated Bulldozer section that will launch with the new site. Here are the first 2 entries.

Introduction to the Bulldozer Blog:
http://bit.ly/aogYzM

What is Bulldozer:
http://bit.ly/dzPxJt

What you will see in the Bulldozer Blog in the near future:

* "Bulldozer 20 Questions" - we're reviving the popular 20 questions blog, we'll take the best public questions and answer them in the blog over a series of postings.

Excellent. Glad to see that AMD cares about their customers.

I tried posting this on the first 5 of the 20 questions but I don't think it made it:

Question: You've said that Bulldozer is being designed to support DDR-3 however there are AM3 boards that still support DDR-2. Does this mean these AM3 DDR-2 boards will not support Bulldozer or is it too early to tell?

Example: Gigabyte MA785GM-US2H


----------



## DjiXas

I want this







YouTube- AMD Athlon Commercial but with Bulldozer


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DjiXas*


Here's what John might say: I am a server guy










I am a server guy.

As to the software question, I am talking specifically about AVX (256-bit FP). You need to recompile SW to take advantage of it. If you do not, you still get lots of 128-bit executions.

Each pair of cores can issue either 1 256-bit AVX dispatch or 2 128-bit FMAC dispatches per cycle.


----------



## skwannabe

After reading a few blogs, it seem bulldozer won't support AM3. Instead Amd will create a new MB called AM3+?

Disappointed.. I was hoping bulldozer would be compatible with current Am3 boards...
I guess I'll just upgrade to a Phenom x4 later on or a 1055t..


----------



## DjiXas

By the way, on SA you wrote:

"The slides that are out on the web right now are the press slides. The in-depth hot chips slides are in the hands of some journalists but are under embargo until after our presentation this afternoon."

Can you maybe mention any site that got those slides (so we can follow it) and will publish them after hc is over?


----------



## JF-AMD

No, I cannot. But, based on the traffic to these threads and the traffic to my blogs this morning, I am betting that by this evening all of the hot chips slides will be out there.


----------



## decimator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DjiXas*


Also, this











Stupid conflicting roadmaps







.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *decimate*


Stupid conflicting roadmaps







.











The last one is not official, isn't?


----------



## decimator

So after reading the Xbitlabs article published today, it's a done deal as far as Bulldozer and socket compatibility goes...

Quote:

"The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. *In order for AMD's desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings," an official from AMD said in an interview with Planet3DNow web-site.*

*Apparently, it was possible for AMD to make Bulldozer microprocessors compatible with existing AM3 infrastructure, but in order to do that, the company would have to sacrifice certain important features of the new core.*

*"When we initially set out on the path to Bulldozer we were hoping for AM3 compatibility, but further along the process we realized that we had a choice to make based on some of the features that we wanted to bring with Bulldozer. We could either provide AM3 support and lose some of the capabilities of the new Bulldozer architecture or, we could choose the AM3+ socket which would allow the Bulldozer-base Zambezi to have greater performance and capability," the official said.*

The compatibility with older microprocessors allows AMD to simplify transition to the new micro-architecture and process design since the new AM3+ platform will support inexpensive chips from day one. However, such compatibility also means that AMD Zambezi processors will only support dual-channel memory controller. Considering the fact that all modern high-end Intel Core i7 processors with up to six cores feature triple-channel memory controller, it is unclear how AMD plans to "feed" eight cores of Zambezi with dual-channel DDR3 without creating bottlenecks.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...forms_AMD.html

Obviously, AMD could still release a gimped Bulldozer CPU for AM3, but I really don't see any incentive for them to do that...


----------



## jammy4041

While I feel sorry for those that have bought AM3 sockets based on the assumption of it being bulldozer compatible, or on the advice given to them, I think that changing sockets was the correct decision to make - AMD really needs to make progress, and you cannot do that by shoe horning new tech into yesterday's sockets. This has, indubitable, been a crucial selling point for many, AMD needs to go for Intel's Jugular, and the change of sockets is, to me, a statement of intent- that they are (finally) going for the ultimate performance crown.

On a side note, when will we see Quad Channel Memory in high end clients?


----------



## Tator Tot

Just because Bulldozer will be AM3r2 (AM3+) doesn't mean that current boards will be incompatible.

The same kinda notions were said at the time of Phenom I and AM2+ Socket.


----------



## Fletcherea

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Just because Bulldozer will be AM3r2 (AM3+) doesn't mean that current boards will be incompatible.

The same kinda notions were said at the time of Phenom I and AM2+ Socket.


That's absolutely right, but how many times do you suggest someone to grab an am2+ board to someone buying a spanking new am3 cpu? If I do decide and wait for a mainstream dozer chip, it's going to go with a new dozer board for sure.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fletcherea*


That's absolutely right, but how many times do you suggest someone to grab an am2+ board to someone buying a spanking new am3 cpu? If I do decide and wait for a mainstream dozer chip, it's going to go with a new dozer board for sure.


Decent AM2+ boards are not around any more. It's all low end stuff.

And the Cost of DDR2 is close to the cost of DDR3 now. SO most people go DDR3 and AM3 for that reason.

You can get a good DDR3 board for $75 and DDR3 for $80


----------



## DjiXas

I am glad they did the way they did it, no crippling, please (says guy, who does not own AM3 )

I can't wait for Bulldozer, both, desktop and server.

As I plan to upgrade my Dual Xeon E5520 Quad Core sometime next year (for something in the same price range), do hope it brings some amazing improvements.

Bulldozer Server, 8 or 16 Core (depends on price)
Bulldozer Desktop, 8 Core + HD 7xxx series (hoping for PCIe 3.0 mobo)

Oh man.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Just because Bulldozer will be AM3r2 (AM3+) doesn't mean that current boards will be incompatible.

The same kinda notions were said at the time of Phenom I and AM2+ Socket.


Bulldozer will not work in AM3 boards.


----------



## el gappo

About time we had a properly new socket







Fancy a few new boards anyway


----------



## mimart7

I guess I know where my next tax refund is going...


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Bulldozer will not work in AM3 boards.

Why did AMD hold off so long to release this info. The big rumor was it would work with AM3. It seems they just let that rumor stay alive. Trying to sell as many x6's and am3 mobos?

I don't really care because I am very happy with my 1055t, but I'm pretty sure they (and of course you OP) knew this for a while now.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Bulldozer will not work in AM3 boards.

But does that mean that AM3 boards will not be able to update AGESA code to become AM3+


----------



## mimart7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


But does that mean that AM3 boards will not be able to update AGESA code to become AM3+


I guessing a different pin config. Still, you might be able to drop an AM3 chip into the new boards.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
But does that mean that AM3 boards will not be able to update AGESA code to become AM3+

No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.


----------



## Metonymy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.

Glad I picked up the 1055t 95w then.

I'm not going to spend the money to buy a new mobo, another processor, and most likely the faster RAM needed to keep up with it.

Nothing even uses all 6 cores yet... much less the 8+ that bulldozer is going to be.

Maybe a couple years down the road.


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metonymy* 
Glad I picked up the 1055t 95w then.

I'm not going to spend the money to buy a new mobo, another processor, and most likely the faster RAM needed to keep up with it.

Nothing even uses all 6 cores yet... much less the 8+ that bulldozer is going to be.

Maybe a couple years down the road.









Thats why I am getting a good lappy first.
Then maybe a new case.
when bulldozer mb and cpu prices drop a lil bit then i will buy.


----------



## decimator

If Bulldozer turns out to be a winner, I'll probably sell my current mobo and my old Opteron 185 I have laying around. The money I get from selling those should be enough for me to get a good AM3+ mobo, which I'll use to run my 1090T into the ground. Then I'll upgrade to Bulldozer.

Of course, all that is moot if Sandy Bridge dominates Bulldozer...


----------



## DjiXas

John,

Can you please elaborate on this (in case you already heard about it from AMD itself)?

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/8/30/amd-axes-ati-brand/

Is this a rumor or not?

Will you also kill Ruby?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DjiXas* 
John,

Can you please elaborate on this (in case you already heard about it from AMD itself)?

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/8/30/amd-axes-ati-brand/

Is this a rumor or not?

Will you also kill Ruby?










I am a server guy, I don't quote on client stuff.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
I am a server guy, I don't quote on client stuff.

LOL, was wondering, since you repeat that so often, don't you mix things up?

- John, can you drive kids to school?
- How would I know? I am a server guy.

Alternate universe:

- John... We have spent many years together and I love you so much. Will you marry me?
- I am a server guy and can't answer that.


----------



## JF-AMD

I think I should just have a macro so I can press a key combination and have it insert that.


----------



## el gappo

Wouldn't know anything about that. I am overclock guy.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
I think I should just have a macro so I can press a key combination and have it insert that.

Or you need a button that makes a Client guy show up


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.

Hmm well that means I will have a new HTPC build then


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lightsout*


Why did AMD hold off so long to release this info. The big rumor was it would work with AM3. It seems they just let that rumor stay alive. Trying to sell as many x6's and am3 mobos?


 This is absolutely, 100% why they let the rumors live. There is no possible way they could not have known AM3 would be incompatible. If they didn't know, then they don't know what they are doing and I would give Bulldozer a very wide berth.

Probably withheld on orders from marketing. Just goes to show that marketers are only just above lawyers and tax collectors on the scum scale, just under the influenza virus.

Now I have a question, will socket AM3 be a dead socket as soon as Bulldozer rolls out, or will AMD keep it alive with further refreshes and maybe new processors in the Athlon II/Deneb/Thuban lines ?


----------



## matty204359

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DarthElvis*


This is absolutely, 100% why they let the rumors live. There is no possible way they could not have known AM3 would be incompatible. If they didn't know, then they don't know what they are doing and I would give Bulldozer a very wide berth.

Probably withheld on orders from marketing. Just goes to show that marketers are only just above lawyers and tax collectors on the scum scale, just under the influenza virus.

Now I have a question, will socket AM3 be a dead socket as soon as Bulldozer rolls out, or will AMD keep it alive with further refreshes and maybe new processors in the Athlon II/Deneb/Thuban lines ?



I'm upsetted by this news of the am3 not being compatible with bulldozer. the only thing that makes me feel better about my purchase is that at least with amd there was a actual chance of up grade ability. intel has never been backwards compatible with sockets. hopefully the new socket with last a while so I don't need to buy a new board every year?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matty204359*


I'm upsetted by this news of the am3 not being compatible with bulldozer. the only thing that makes me feel better about my purchase is that at least with amd there was a actual chance of up grade ability. intel has never been backwards compatible with sockets. hopefully the new socket with last a while so I don't need to buy a new board every year?


Socket 775 went from Single Core to Hyperthread, To Dual Core, to Quad Cores.

It spanned 5 CPU Generations. And two Architectures.


----------



## matty204359

sorry I"m just a AMD fan boy. i never actually buy intel so i dont really know.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Ofc the info hits just as I've sold my current mobo and ram (and my netbook). Oh well, I made money off of them. More than enough to afford one of NCspec's old mad oc'ing 965's, a new 890FX motherboard, w/ a gaggle of DDR3 2000Mhz just for fun.







At least I can recycle my new ram when BD hits the street.

Still, I wish I'd known a week or so earlier. I would've held on to my sig rig for just a little longer.


----------



## Fletcherea

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.


Ouch, so much for the last six months of folks suggesting 890 boards in builds for future proofing, glad I invest in gold









Kinda makes me giggle a little bit in an evil way, all that intel dead socket DEAD dEd Forgotten!!!! socket stuff that was spilling out during this time, ugh, was almost vomit inducing.


----------



## CryWin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.


 Will they physically fit in an AM3 socket?


----------



## KamuiRSX

Hey JF, by any chance, can you give us some information about the memory controller? This way I can be on the look out for a specific price on specific RAM.


----------



## JF-AMD

No comments on client products, that is not my world.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No comments on client products, that is not my world.


Didn't you technically already make a comment on it earlier by saying current AM3 boards couldn't update to support Bulldozer


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Didn't you technically already make a comment on it earlier by saying current AM3 boards couldn't update to support Bulldozer










Lol! No, I think it's JF's way of saying that, really means "I'm not at liberty to discuss the details that haven't been (un)officially leaked previously. So don't bother asking." In a nice way, that makes you feel all warm and gooey inside









I'm betting he has that response in a .txt file on his desktop for quick copying & pasting.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Didn't you technically already make a comment on it earlier by saying current AM3 boards couldn't update to support Bulldozer









I made one comment on client because it was becoming a real issue with people getting the data wrong.

The biggest reason for me to not answer client questions is that as soon as I answer one, the flood gates open up.


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
No comments on client products, that is not my world.

Could you get someone who CAN comment on client products pls ? Since 99% of the customers on this board are NOT here because they are running servers. It's sort of like a heavy-duty diesel mechanic trying to answer questions on a Hybrid compact car, while being hamstrung by the sales dept.


----------



## matty204359

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DarthElvis* 
Could you get someone who CAN comment on client products pls ? Since 99% of the customers on this board are NOT here because they are running servers. It's sort of like a heavy-duty diesel mechanic trying to answer questions on a Hybrid compact car, while being hamstrung by the sales dept.

LOL


----------



## JF-AMD

That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fletcherea* 
Ouch, so much for the last six months of folks suggesting 890 boards in builds for future proofing, glad I invest in gold









Kinda makes me giggle a little bit in an evil way, all that intel dead socket DEAD dEd Forgotten!!!! socket stuff that was spilling out during this time, ugh, was almost vomit inducing.

totally agree








and now it just gets glossed over as if it never was big selling point.
but in fact it was the #1 point against buying an i7 setup vs x6 when it was
shown they were about equal in performance when the thubans first came out.
most of the pro AMD guys and even myself gave advice to the potential system
buyer to go AMD for the future upgrade path with BD dropping into the AM3 rigs.

sorry to anyone who followed my advice to go AMD for this reason.
in the end AMD did sell more thubans and AM3 boards because of this








so i guess if it helps put AMD in a better market position,thats good for all
consumers.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.

Don't worry about the trolls. I for one appreciate your being here and your input massively







I would eat my sempron if there was an intel rep on here half as active as you are









Quote:


Originally Posted by *radaja* 
totally agree








and now it just gets glossed over as if it never was big selling point.
but in fact it was the #1 point against buying an i7 setup vs x6 when it was
shown they were about equal in performance when the thubans first came out.
most of the pro AMD guys and even myself gave advice to the potential system
buyer to go AMD for the future upgrade path with BD dropping into the AM3 rigs.

sorry to anyone who followed my advice to go AMD for this reason.
in the end AMD did sell more thubans and AM3 boards because of this








so i guess if it helps put AMD in a better market position,thats good for all
consumers.

Nobody knew anything. It was wrong to say so. I recall saying a few times "Who knows if it's even going to be square?"


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.


I love seeing you here. And personally, I'll scrounge for any info you can give.


----------



## decimator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Socket 775 went from Single Core to Hyperthread, To Dual Core, to Quad Cores.

It spanned 5 CPU Generations. And two Architectures.


Yeah, but Intel kept switching chipsets on the 775 boards. A board with the 965 chipset couldn't run a C2Q.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *decimate*


Yeah, but Intel kept switching chipsets on the 775 boards. A board with the 965 chipset couldn't run a C2Q.


Yeah but 965 was around for AWHILE. And so was the lesser 945.

And P35 could run C2Q, even after the 45nm refresh.


----------



## Hawk777th

Thanks for all the info so far. Please ignore the idiots on the board that would give you a hard time! Thanks for taking your time to do this and I am looking forward to future updates!


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.

I like you being here...I think it's awesome that you're nice enough to even talk to us...erm...type to us rather


----------



## Tommie

For all who want a good read about Bulldozer, check out realworldtech. They have a good article about it ( afaik ).


----------



## Blueduck3285

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.


I am happy to see you here, please don't let some of these people bother you. They just cant wait a whole week for information regarding a product that wont be out for a min. of a year. I would love to read any information you have!


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.


Like many others have said since the trolling idiots, we very much appreciate you doing what you can. Someone else said that he wished Intel's rep were 1/2 as active here (as a compliment to you). I wholeheatedly agree.

Sorry for bumping this back up. I just think it needed to be reiterated.


----------



## mimart7

I've mentioned that I really appreciate what you do here, John. Please stay.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hawk777th* 
Thanks for all the info so far. Please ignore the idiots on the board that would give you a hard time! Thanks for taking your time to do this and I am looking forward to future updates!

What makes them idiots/trolls or whatever? They have every right to express their opinions and ask questions.

At least those, your called "idiots" are intelligent enough to not offend other people.


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DjiXas*


What makes them idiots/trolls or whatever? They have every right to express their opinions and ask questions.

At least those, your called "idiots" are intelligent enough to not offend other people.


Well there is no reason for people to harass an AMD guy that is willing to give us info in his free time. People asking questions is great, people saying, and asking if he can get a client side guy on and calling his information worthless is not. And it is ludicrous that people give him are hard time cause he doesn't know, or just cant divulge certain information.


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. I do this on my own time, not the company time. Just let me know.


 Sorry if my meaning does not translate very well over the internet. Let me explain about my analogy. In my own line of work, both types of technicians are very useful (heavy duty diesel and hybrid techs) and are indispensable to their particular client set . While both can answer some 'cross platform' questions, you really do need one or the other for specialized answers. 
I guess my 'tone' was not acceptable, and I apologize. I and many others do have client side questions before possibly plopping money down on a motherboard now, or waiting. 
Again, I apologize if I caused offense. Your information is far from unappreciated.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hawk777th*


Thanks for all the info so far. Please ignore the idiots on the board that would give you a hard time! Thanks for taking your time to do this and I am looking forward to future updates!


 Get bent. Show me where I called his information worthless.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DarthElvis*


Sorry if my meaning does not translate very well over the internet. Let me explain about my analogy. In my own line of work, both types of technicians are very useful (heavy duty diesel and hybrid techs) and are indispensable to their particular client set . While both can answer some 'cross platform' questions, you really do need one or the other for specialized answers. 
I guess my 'tone' was not acceptable, and I apologize. I and many others do have client side questions before possibly plopping money down on a motherboard now, or waiting. 
Again, I apologize if I caused offense. Your information is far from unappreciated.


No problem. As they say in my home town of Chicago, no blood, no foul. That probably does not translate well, but it means the issue was not bad.


----------



## KoolGuy

AMD will > intel!


----------



## darkcommon

One little question. When will Bulldozer come out? I'm planning to buy a Thuban 1055T and OC it to 4GHz, but, if Bulldozer is near, I think it would be better to wait for them, save the money and get a high-end (Crosshair V Extreme) motherboard and a Bulldozer.


----------



## mimart7

He won't discuss release dates or benches. Bulldozer will come out Q1 of 2011. That's all the info about a release date.


----------



## darkcommon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimart7* 
He won't discuss release dates or benches. Bulldozer will come out Q1 of 2011. That's all the info about a release date.

That's all I need. So it's gonna come out Q1. Then, I won't buy a Thuban and stick to my X3.


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimart7* 
He won't discuss release dates or benches. Bulldozer will come out Q1 of 2011. That's all the info about a release date.

Server chip, not desktop I believe. Desktop chips come out later, as always.


----------



## JF-AMD

All we have said is 2011. Period. Anything beyond that is speculation.


----------



## KoolGuy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
All we have said is 2011. Period. Anything beyond that is speculation.

Are you suggesting that it wont be q1?

I need bulldozer to drop the price of the x6 soon!


----------



## darkcommon

D:

Then if it's only server chips, I'll buy X6. Man, I need a boost, my X3 will bottleneck my 470.


----------



## Nooooob

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darkcommon* 
D:

Then if it's only server chips, I'll buy X6. Man, I need a boost, my X3 will bottleneck my 470.

Bulldozer will be for servers and desktops.


----------



## KoolGuy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nooooob* 
Bulldozer will be for servers and desktops.

You mean no Bulldozer for my iphone?!?!?

LOL its a funny statement since like desktops and server make up like 90% of all computers.


----------



## Nooooob

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KoolGuy* 
You mean no Bulldozer for my iphone?!?!?

LOL its a funny statement since like desktops and server make up like 90% of all computers.

I believe a cellphone won't need a powerful chip like Bulldozer for a longgggggggggggg time.


----------



## KoolGuy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nooooob* 
I believe a cellphone won't need a powerful chip like Bulldozer for a longgggggggggggg time.

I beg to differ. If there was a chip that was cool enought and used close to no power that was just as strong they would jump on it.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KoolGuy* 
Are you suggesting that it wont be q1?

I need bulldozer to drop the price of the x6 soon!

All I am saying is the the current schedule commit is "2011." We have some engineering checkpoints before we give any more granularity. Anyone that is telling you anything at the quarter level is wrong because we have not given that level of detail.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KoolGuy*


You mean no Bulldozer for my iphone?!?!?

LOL its a funny statement since like desktops and server make up like 90% of all computers.


Actually, notebooks outsell desktops if I remember correctly, so that would make it far less than 90%.

And if you just look at processor sales (which would include cellphones and smartphones), I would venture to guess that desktops and servers are a pretty small chunk of the processor market (in units.) Think of how many homes have 1 computer and multiple cell phones.


----------



## KoolGuy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Actually, notebooks outsell desktops if I remember correctly, so that would make it far less than 90%.

And if you just look at processor sales (which would include cellphones and smartphones), I would venture to guess that desktops and servers are a pretty small chunk of the processor market (in units.) Think of how many homes have 1 computer and multiple cell phones.


I wasn't thinking about notebooks.

... Does Intel or Amd make cell phone processors?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KoolGuy*


I wasn't thinking about notebooks.

... Does Intel or Amd make cell phone processors?


Intel's Moorestown Platform is looking to hit the Cellphone Market. AMD hasn't been in the SoC business for awhile. They had GEODE and Alchemy but I don't know if they actively participate/produce in that business anymore.


----------



## mimart7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
All I am saying is the the current schedule commit is "2011." We have some engineering checkpoints before we give any more granularity. Anyone that is telling you anything at the quarter level is wrong because we have not given that level of detail.

Sorry about that. I had seen some charts which had stated that. Like you had said a while ago, you're here to correct misinformation. I stand corrected. Many thanks.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Socket 775 went from Single Core to Hyperthread, To Dual Core, to Quad Cores.

It spanned 5 CPU Generations. And two Architectures.

The socket stayed the same, but the chipsets weren't compatible. At least coolers were able to be reused


----------



## mimart7

I'm hoping to be able to reuse my cooler, even if I have to buy another adapter.


----------



## aweir

No prices, but I'm guessing it will sell for around $400 w/ locked multiplier. If it is compared to a i7-970 that sells for a whopping $900, the AMD will have more cores and will be faster clock for clock (let's hope)...the AMD will still be a good deal even if priced upwards of $500.

I hope it will be a big upgrade from my current system.


----------



## rchads89

im just hoping that it will be AM3 so i can just change the cpu. But i doubt it will be AM3


----------



## Geforce_GTX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rchads89*


im just hoping that it will be AM3 so i can just change the cpu. But i doubt it will be AM3


You can always sell your system,and so far they're saying that you can put some AM3 chips into the upcoming AM3+ boards,so you can wait until BD is cheaper.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


No prices, but I'm guessing it will sell for around $400 w/ locked multiplier. If it is compared to a i7-970 that sells for a whopping $900, the AMD will have more cores and will be faster clock for clock (let's hope)...the AMD will still be a good deal even if priced upwards of $500.

I hope it will be a big upgrade from my current system.


Agreed. We all hope Bulldozer impresses as AMD has alot on the line with these chips.


----------



## MASSKILLA

what is going to be the mhz range of the new bulldozer cpu's?
Also what is going to be different from the old cpu's?
I heard rumors that they are going to try to incorporate some graphic gpu's into the processor is that true?


----------



## KamuiRSX

I just hope they price it around the $300 mark as I only have around $600 total right now for this new build. I'd hate to spend $1k on a new desktop and not even buy new monitors


----------



## MASSKILLA

The bad news is that it won't be compatible with existing AM3 boards. Instead, AMD says it will introduce a new AM3+ socket. These sockets will be backward compatible with older chips so you could drop a Phenom II X6 in it. According to AMD, Bulldozer will be built on a new 32nm process at Global Foundries.


----------



## Artikbot

Whoa. New motherboards with which chipsets? Recycled 8xx's? Not worth the upgrading until 9xx series appear. then I'll get Bulldozys xD


----------



## MASSKILLA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIs1C...ayer_embedded#!
check this out!!!!!


----------



## Trogdor

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MASSKILLA* 
The bad news is that it won't be compatible with existing AM3 boards. Instead, AMD says it will introduce a new AM3+ socket. These sockets will be backward compatible with older chips so you could drop a Phenom II X6 in it. According to AMD, Bulldozer will be built on a new 32nm process at Global Foundries.

It sounds like Bulldozer will be compatible with AM3 boards since AMD says Bulldozer will be backward compatible but not compatible with DDR2 so that leaves AM3 on the list unless two new sockets instead of one are released before Bulldozer is released. Or do I need to re-read the blog?


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MASSKILLA* 
The bad news is that it won't be compatible with existing AM3 boards. Instead, AMD says it will introduce a new AM3+ socket. These sockets will be backward compatible with older chips so you could drop a Phenom II X6 in it. According to AMD, Bulldozer will be built on a new 32nm process at Global Foundries.

That's good news my friend, for me at least. I was wanting to buy a new motherboard anyway and it will be great to have a fantastic chipset refresh to go with it to get more features.

Here's hoping for a Gigabyte board with 10 SATA ports (yes I need them), 4 PCI-Express 16x slots, DDR3 2400 capability (OMGOsh), and uhm...............black PCB. Yeah....black...the last part will never happen but it's still fun to dream









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trogdor* 
It sounds like Bulldozer will be compatible with AM3 boards since AMD says Bulldozer will be backward compatible but not compatible with DDR2 so that leaves AM3 on the list unless two new sockets instead of one are released before Bulldozer is released. Or do I need to re-read the blog?

Not this blog but the newer ones. All of the desktop variant Bulldozer CPU's won't be compatible with AM3. They will only work in the new AM3+ socket.

However, the current AM3 processors will work in the new AM3+ socket.


----------



## decimator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX*


and uhm...............black PCB. Yeah....black...the last part will never happen but it's still fun to dream










Your best bet is Asus with their ROG boards for this one







.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trogdor*


It sounds like Bulldozer will be compatible with AM3 boards since AMD says Bulldozer will be backward compatible but not compatible with DDR2 so that leaves AM3 on the list unless two new sockets instead of one are released before Bulldozer is released. Or do I need to re-read the blog?


Yes, you need to do more research.


----------



## aweir

I noticed Bobcat does not have an SSE4 instruction set. Can anyone explain why this is?


----------



## Trogdor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes, you need to do more research.


So, Bulldozer won't support DDR2 or AM3 but will be backwards compatible


----------



## FlanK3r

DDR2 is oldschool, new future platform dont need it, thinking, how is future for DDr2? Limit about 1100-1200 MHz only, so, with DDR3 we are now at 2200-2400 MHz in shops (of course, need CPU with good IMC for this). Performance is better. Nobody want with totally new CPU for highend DDR2. DDr2 is for highend lose, trust me. DDr2 was with us long time ago.


----------



## Trogdor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*


DDR2 is oldschool, new future platform dont need it, thinking, how is future for DDr2? Limit about 1100-1200 MHz only, so, with DDR3 we are now at 2200-2400 MHz in shops (of course, need CPU with good IMC for this). Performance is better. Nobody want with totally new CPU for highend DDR2. DDr2 is for highend lose, trust me. DDr2 was with us long time ago.










I'm trying to deduce what Bulldozer is going to be backward compatible with.

Since it be compatible with DDR2 or AM3 and the next socket is supposed to be AM3+ what does leave in terms of backward compatibility? Understand now?


----------



## JF-AMD

Nobody said it will be backwards compatible.


----------



## Chranny

AFAIK, Bulldozer wont be backwards compatible with anything. The AM3+ motherboards however will be backwards compatible with AM3 CPUs (Phenom II).


----------



## Trogdor

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
Nobody said it will be backwards compatible.

Taken directly from the blog you linked in your first post. Fourth paragraph.

"There will be some new software instructions that will be supported, allowing for greater performance and flexibility, but, it will be *backwards compatible* so you wonâ€™t need to change anything to start using the processor. We will be introducing this processor in 2011, and as we get closer weâ€™ll get more granular on the actual availability."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chranny* 
AFAIK, Bulldozer wont be backwards compatible with anything. The AM3+ motherboards however will be backwards compatible with AM3 CPUs (Phenom II).

Thanks for clearing up the AM3+ compatibility.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aweir* 
I noticed Bobcat does not have an SSE4 instruction set. Can anyone explain why this is?

It has SSE4A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE4A#SSE4a

for that who said AMD Bulldozer didn't have 256bit processing SSE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE5
READ AWAY!

also it can do x87 a tad bit better
PhysX uses x87


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trogdor* 
Taken directly from the blog you linked in your first post. Fourth paragraph.

"There will be some new *software instructions* that will be supported, allowing for greater performance and flexibility, but, it will be *backwards compatible* so you wonâ€™t need to change anything to start using the processor. We will be introducing this processor in 2011, and as we get closer weâ€™ll get more granular on the actual availability."


If you read the whole sentence you will see that I am saying it is backwards compatible with _software_ and that you to not have to change your software just to take advantage of bulldozer.


----------



## mimart7

Thanks for making that clear. The cpu compatibility issues do affect peoples current buying decisions. I'd be hopping mad if I bought a cpu now believing I could drop into a Bulldozer board.


----------



## Trogdor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you read the whole sentence you will see that I am saying it is backwards compatible with _software _and that you to not have to change your software just to take advantage of bulldozer.


lol, thanks for clarifying that vague segment.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you read the whole sentence you will see that I am saying it is backwards compatible with _software _and that you to not have to change your software just to take advantage of bulldozer.


JF Rocks









Now if only we could get a say...desktop price









Would be great so I can actually start allocating a good amount of funds towards whatever I need to buy.


----------



## stangcharger

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX* 
JF Rocks









Now if only we could get a say...desktop price









Would be great so I can actually start allocating a good amount of funds towards whatever I need to buy.

I agree, but understand why AMD is not releasing that info. My biggest thing is to save for whatever the bulldozer might cost or to get the current x6 that would hook right up to my AM3 board and hit 4ghz and call it a day. Everyday I second guess myself.


----------



## ziweiwu

Wish I can keep my am3 board for this cpu. or they can release some model of bulldozer support am3.


----------



## rchads89

answered this myself


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ziweiwu* 
or they can release some model of bulldozer support am3.

unlikely, they stated that BD will not be compatible, let's just hope we will se soon the new AM3+ boards a 990FX chipset


----------



## RagingThunder

my guess is they won't be too cheap :]

Will be cheap*** lol messed up like to upgrade a mobo and cpu shud only cost 300-400 bux imo


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RagingThunder* 
my guess is they won't be too cheap :]

I'm reading things like this very often lately, i think we will be surprised also price wise, also, if the CPU rocks, i will gladly spend my money on it


----------



## darkcommon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RagingThunder* 
my guess is they won't be too cheap :]

Will be cheap*** lol messed up like to upgrade a mobo and cpu shud only cost 300-400 bux imo









If it is too expensive, I'll just stay with my 790FX and get a Thuban, or maybe, get a 990FX and a Thuban. If not, I will take the new platform.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Heya JF, anyway of getting any chipset info out of ya?


----------



## JF-AMD

SR5690, SR5670 and SR5650 all work fine.


----------



## A Russian :D

Sorry if this has been answered 1 million times, but what is the main performance we should see from Bulldozer? like single threading?


----------



## JF-AMD

All we have said is that IPC will be higher and single threaded performance will be higher. Not by how much.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Russian * 
Sorry if this has been answered 1 million times, but what is the main performance we should see from Bulldozer? like single threading?

I'd wait for actual benchmarks to see if it is even a legitament enough to justify a chipset change. It is being put out there like fermi did, and once it was released nearly everyone was disappointed.

I would like to know more about what the new platform is going to be like. If the SB/NB chips are even comparible to intel's current gen. You can always have a great CPU, but you also need a good platform to back it.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Domino* 
I'd wait for actual benchmarks to see if it is even a legitament enough to justify a chipset change. It is being put out there like fermi did, and once it was released nearly everyone was disappointed.

I would like to know more about what the new platform is going to be like. If the SB/NB chips are even comparible to intel's current gen. You can always have a great CPU, but you also need a good platform to back it.


......

Uhm...okay....

First, justify a new chipset??? The new SOCKET comes with backwards compatibility for all the current AM3 CPU's so if you have a current AM3 processor and you want a new motherboard, you can do that. However, the newer CPU's will require that new socket which is to be understandable.

Waiting for benchmarks is what we're all going to do but even then what matters more is the price of the chip.

Like fermi?? I'm not getting that vibe at all. Here's the deal, with both AMD and Intel being on the verge of releasing their new CPU's, it would be silly to really disclose all of your information at once. Also, the best way to "keep" the attention of people is to give them tidbits of information over a period of time instead of everything at once. The problem with Fermi is that it's performance vs everything else was terrible. It wasn't quite a disappointment in the performance department though but it was talked up too much.

I do agree that the NB performance should be increased. For instance, when compared to the current gen northbridge performance at say 2.6Ghz should be the performance level of the next gen northbridge at 2.0Ghz.

With the last part of your statement, AMD has had a great platform backing their chips since the release of the 7 series chipset with the SB750 and it's derivatives. While it is true that you really need a northbridge clock of at least 2.6+Ghz to get the most of benchmarks, it still does a great job at stock settings.


----------



## A Russian :D

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JF-AMD* 
All we have said is that IPC will be higher and single threaded performance will be higher. Not by how much.

Reading from Bulldozer questions part 3
"we have already stated publicly that Bulldozer single threaded performance is expected to be higher than our current core architectures."

Is this referring to a comparison to 1 core vs 1 core or your best line up CPU right now vs the top Bulldozer line up?


----------



## JF-AMD

yes


----------



## un-nefer

I'm just hoping they move some of the features of the current opteron server mainboards to "Bulldozer" client mainboards when they are released next year - like quad channel ddr3, sata 3, usb3, ht3.1 @ 3.2ghz, etc


----------



## JF-AMD

most of those features are either a.) already on client or b.) not on server. The things you want (with the execption of quad channel and HT 3.1) are more likely to be on client systems first since few servers would utilize them.


----------



## A Russian :D

Does AMD have any plans for a x6 and x4 versions of bulldozer?

Also if a Phenom II is placed on the new socket (AM3+) will it see a performance increase in any way?


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Russian * 
Does AMD have any plans for a x6 and x4 versions of bulldozer?

Also if a Phenom II is placed on the new socket (AM3+) will it see a performance increase in any way?

Their quadcore and octcore versions of Bulldozer would probably have two different dies. Hexcore may use a crippled octcore and the quadcore would just be a native quadcore.


----------



## un-nefer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *solidsteel144* 
Their quadcore and octcore versions of Bulldozer would probably have two different dies. Hexcore may use a crippled octcore and the quadcore would just be a native quadcore.

Not true. One of the main advantages of the "Buldozer" CPUs is that the will be made from scalable "Bulldozer modules".

Basically, Bulldozer based CPUs will be comprised of Bulldozer "modules" and each Bulldozer "module" has 2 integer "cores".

So a "quad core" Bulldozer based CPU, it will have 2 Bulldozer "modules" - a 6 core will have 3 Bulldozer "modules", an 8 core will have 4 Bulldozer "modules" - etc.

And according to the last lot of remours, Bulldozer based CPU's will be anything from 4 core to 12 core, depending on their application (ie. server or client). But that is not to say that at some point in time AMD will not release other variations.

Much like each new CPU microarchitecture, there are derivatives that are mdofied for specific applications and/or to improve performance (read: K10 and its derivatives: Agena, Toliman, Thuban, Deneb, Heka, Callisto, Regor, Propus) - so I'd think we can expect Bulldozer based CPUs to be with us for at least the same time the K10 has been with us (3 years next month)


----------



## aweir

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Russian * 
Does AMD have any plans for a x6 and x4 versions of bulldozer?

*Also if a Phenom II is placed on the new socket (AM3+) will it see a performance increase in any way?*


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


Originally Posted by *un-nefer* 
Not true. One of the main advantages of the "Buldozer" CPUs is that the will be made from scalable "Bulldozer modules".

Basically, Bulldozer based CPUs will be comprised of Bulldozer "modules" and each Bulldozer "module" has 2 integer "cores".

So a "quad core" Bulldozer based CPU, it will have 2 Bulldozer "modules" - a 6 core will have 3 Bulldozer "modules", an 8 core will have 4 Bulldozer "modules" - etc.

And according to the last lot of remours, Bulldozer based CPU's will be anything from 4 core to 12 core, depending on their application (ie. server or client). But that is not to say that at some point in time AMD will not release other variations.

Much like each new CPU microarchitecture, there are derivatives that are mdofied for specific applications and/or to improve performance (read: K10 and its derivatives: Agena, Toliman, Thuban, Deneb, Heka, Callisto, Regor, Propus) - so I'd think we can expect Bulldozer based CPUs to be with us for at least the same time the K10 has been with us (3 years next month)









I think you failed to take into account the module arrangement on die.









Lets assume the module placement in this picture is roughly correct...
How do you think they will make a 6 core variant?


----------



## Optimus_Prime

What happened to this thread i was hoping i would se more interested people like a month ago, i'm realy interested in this beast







.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime* 
What happened to this thread i was hoping i would se more interested people like a month ago, i'm realy interested in this beast







.

We're waiting for the AMD Financial Analyst Day when they announce the Bulldozer release date.


----------



## JF-AMD

We will not give the date, probably the quarter.


----------



## ironman86

Quote:


Originally Posted by *solidsteel144* 
I think you failed to take into account the module arrangement on die.









Lets assume the module placement in this picture is roughly correct...
How do you think they will make a 6 core variant?

in rectangle die perhaps?


----------



## motoray

so.. anything new released?


----------



## JF-AMD

Well, that depends on the last time you checked, right?


----------



## motoray

in the last week?


----------



## JF-AMD

Nothing new in the past week. There is a new blog on whether bobcat would be a server CPU (spoiler alert: not any time soon.)


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I'm still wondering how this will perform versus Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge. They're pretty behind but offer a nice low price for their processors. I feel like the only thing that's keeping AMD alive is their low processor costs (low budget builds) and graphics cards.


----------



## JF-AMD

Well, when you consider that probably 99% of the people in the market are NOT buying that highest clock speed processor, having a part that delivers value can be a really good thing.


----------



## Amor

So then the strategy is to sell in quantity instead of selling "luxury". ie. Seat or Skoda selling low cost cars vs something more high end like Audi selling fewer units to the luxury market (NB: They're both owned by the same parent company (VW Group)) (I was discussing this as part of an Economics seminar course).

Anyways..... is there any word about which OEM's will release Bobcat laptops after the New Year? I need to source a notebook for one of my friends and I convinced them to wait until Q1/2011 for the OEM's to start releasing Bobcat based notebooks so I hope they actually do come out during that time or I'll be in hot water.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I'm still wondering how this will perform versus Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge. They're pretty behind but offer a nice low price for their processors. I feel like the only thing that's keeping AMD alive is their low processor costs (low budget builds) and graphics cards.


To be 100% honest, when it comes to real world usage, most people can't tell the difference between the two in terms of normal computing. It's only when you get into the benchmarks that there's a difference and even then...who the hell runs benchmarks 24/7 on their desktop.

It all comes back to how much someone is willing to pay. AMD has a good lead in the price/performance segment but then you have Intel with their shady ways to ensure that it only goes so far.

I think these will compete quite well against the newer Intel CPU's just based value alone. To be honest, I haven't see anything about Sandy Bridge that would even make me want to convert to Intel but to each his own. I'll be happy with my AMD Bulldozer build and will be waiting for the new laptop and netbook parts to complete my purchases next year.

Although, I do still get a free laptop on December 20th...I hope it's at least a decent one...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amor* 
So then the strategy is to sell in quantity instead of selling "luxury". ie. Seat or Skoda selling low cost cars vs something more high end like Audi selling fewer units to the luxury market (NB: They're both owned by the same parent company (VW Group)) (I was discussing this as part of an Economics seminar course).

Anyways..... is there any word about which OEM's will release Bobcat laptops after the New Year? I need to source a notebook for one of my friends and I convinced them to wait until Q1/2011 for the OEM's to start releasing Bobcat based notebooks so I hope they actually do come out during that time or I'll be in hot water.

No, slightly different. The strategy is not to build a lamborghini that is 5% faster than a honda accord and 5X the price.

Can't speak to bobcat, I am a server guy.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Nothing new in the past week. There is a new blog on whether bobcat would be a server CPU (spoiler alert: not any time soon.)


Wonder if that GPU inside of it does better paraellel processing then a bulldozer CPU? Probably not under that new arch you guys got cooking...well maybe in really tiny calculations?

Hey JF, just wondering, with all those AMD based cpus you have, would you ever open up your own internet cafe.







The real question was, do you PC game at all?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX*


It all comes back to how much someone is willing to pay. AMD has a good lead in the price/performance segment but then you have Intel with their shady ways to ensure that it only goes so far.


Well isn't AMD ahead in their server market? I thought AMD pretty much had the majority of the server market? Or is it the same like the client side?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX*


Although, I do still get a free laptop on December 20th...I hope it's at least a decent one...


I pulled the trigger and got myself a new laptop even though I'd rather wait for bobcat. But I kinda needed a tablet ASAP so grabbed one anyways. Although good enough for school work (has an i3), it can't play even minecraft which bobcat would probably walk over while maintaining that low power usage.

Btw, is intel stepping up in terms of a bobcat equavalent?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Hey JF, just wondering, with all those AMD based cpus you have, would you ever open up your own internet cafe.







The real question was, do you PC game at all?


I am a hard core gamer, but not like you guys:


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Well isn't AMD ahead in their server market? I thought AMD pretty much had the majority of the server market? Or is it the same like the client side?


Honestly, I don't know anymore. I knew for a time they were spanking Intel's ass and riding like them horse in the server market but I haven't so much as heard about any server market %'s in the longest time which is odd anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


I pulled the trigger and got myself a new laptop even though I'd rather wait for bobcat. But I kinda needed a tablet ASAP so grabbed one anyways. Although good enough for school work (has an i3), it can't play even minecraft which bobcat would probably walk over while maintaining that low power usage.


I was thinking about getting that Viewsonic tablet with the Dual ARM Cortex (I think) processor in it but I've decided that I've gone this long without on so I can wait a little longer. Wow...sucks it can't play minecraft. Now I have an HP TX series tablet laptop which is great. The only bad side to it is the small battery in it. It really only lasts about 2-3 hours before I have to recharge but thankfully, majority of the classes I've been in all have power sockets near me so I can just plug it in anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Btw, is intel stepping up in terms of a bobcat equavalent?


Dunno. If i'm not mistaken though, they are still just progressing a long current roadmap with no changes. If they were to release a new Atom CPU, it definitely won't be anytime soon as AMD's isn't really on the market yet and thus isn't a competitor and so they really don't have a reason to do so. All we can do is hope the masses see that the next AMD netbook CPU spanks Intel and they can hold off on their purchases to get that AMD based netbook.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am a hard core gamer, but not like you guys:











lol that is hilarious and it does bear a resemblance







I think we need to convert you into a PC Gamer


----------



## JF-AMD

If I had free time to game, I would be on my bike. With little free time I don't want to do things that take me away from the trails.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If I had free time to game, I would be on my bike. With little free time I don't want to do things that take me away from the trails.


Oooh mountain bike rider?

I love doing that but there's really only one good trail nearby and it's extremely fun to do in the rain...all that mud just goes everywhere. The only bad side is that it tends to leave me sore for awhile. You're invited if you ever swing through Knoxville







.

There's a couple of others that I've heard are good around here but outside of the Smoky Mountain National Park, I have little to no experience with them.


----------



## _GTech

JF-AMD I have a question about the Processing...

From what I understand, with Bulldozer Client/Desktop Versions of the CPUs, there are 2 modules in each core, each module will have the ability to handle 1 process by itself, is this correct?

Following along those premises, a quad core Bulldozer CPU will have 4 Cores & 8 Modules capable of 8 Processes, is this correct?

I just want clarity on the facts, I think I seen this answered on the blog, but wasn't 100% positive.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_GTech* 
JF-AMD I have a question about the Processing...

From what I understand, with Bulldozer Client/Desktop Versions of the CPUs, there are 2 modules in each core, each module will have the ability to handle 1 process by itself, is this correct?

Following along those premises, a quad core Bulldozer CPU will have 4 Cores & 8 Modules capable of 8 Processes, is this correct?

I just want clarity on the facts, I think I seen this answered on the blog, but wasn't 100% positive.

A little backwards.

There's 2 Integer cores per Bulldozer Module. Each Integer core can handle 1 process by itself because they each have their own single dedicated thread.

The Quad core Bulldozer based CPU will have 4 Integer Cores or 2 Bulldozer Modules (whichever way you want to look at it but they are both the same). They are capable of handling 4 threads (1 thread per Integer Core).

The actual core count (in terms of dual, quad, hexa, octo) will be based on the number of Integer cores on the processor and not the number of Bulldozer modules.

Hope that helps.


----------



## JF-AMD

Modules will never be marketed and you will never see them as a consumer. They are for designers and engineers to understand what is happening inside the chip.


----------



## Amor

OK so as a consumer we should think about it at the high level abstracted level (and just think that 1 Interger Core = 1 Core and don't worry about anything else) instead of the "low level nuts and bolts" that the engineers and designers have to incorporate into their designs and such (ie. 2 Interger cores = 1 Bulldozer module = 2 regular Cores)?

Another question.... What about "tri core" (or odd numbered core) implementations of these chips? Will they exist (ie. 1.5 Bullozer modules = 3 cores)? I could see engineers and such having a hard time if dealing with "tri core" or 1.5 Bulldozer module chips. What about "damaged cores" and binning them to a lower model?

PS: I also love mountain biking, but it's only Xcountry mountain biking right now, nothing crazy like those extreme downhill bikers, mainly because I don't have any safety gear (full helmet, armour, and all that).

/end of random ranting


----------



## JF-AMD

I can't speak to how client will implement products. On the server side it will be 8, 12 and 16 core.

I am XC as well. I cannot afford to be out of work because I did something stupid on the bike. I can't powerpoint with a fracture.


----------



## ussoldier_1984

what is this bulldozer? an new processor? interesting...... cant wait to read more about this


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ussoldier_1984*


what is this bulldozer? an new processor? interesting...... cant wait to read more about this


It's AMD's next generation Architecture for their CPU's. There's a lot of information to absorb so take your time and read it up.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX*


Honestly, I don't know anymore. I knew for a time they were spanking Intel's ass and riding like them horse in the server market but I haven't so much as heard about any server market %'s in the longest time which is odd anyway.


Ya, heard the same thing. But over the past few years and checking out some benechmarks, I see those Xeons on top for performance (where I just assumed that server market would favor the better performing chips).

Quote:



I was thinking about getting that Viewsonic tablet with the Dual ARM Cortex (I think) processor in it but I've decided that I've gone this long without on so I can wait a little longer.


Oh man, if you ever pick up a tablet, they are so much fun. Just in the mere simplicity of a touch screen, it is entertaining in itself.









Quote:



Wow...sucks it can't play minecraft. Now I have an HP TX series tablet laptop which is great. The only bad side to it is the small battery in it. It really only lasts about 2-3 hours before I have to recharge but thankfully, majority of the classes I've been in all have power sockets near me so I can just plug it in anyway.


Is the TX the one with the hd3200 in it? I was able to get this one on sale because their next model was just being released (which was just an LED screen + 133mhz OC).

Ya, I'm really disappointed with the i3's internal GPU. I think it is more due to the nature of minecraft, but overall, at least this it can give HD playback better then my old netbook.







(COH: Online replays







)

Quote:



Dunno. If i'm not mistaken though, they are still just progressing a long current roadmap with no changes. If they were to release a new Atom CPU, it definitely won't be anytime soon as AMD's isn't really on the market yet and thus isn't a competitor and so they really don't have a reason to do so. All we can do is hope the masses see that the next AMD netbook CPU spanks Intel and they can hold off on their purchases to get that AMD based netbook.


Let alone the GPU in bulldozer is miles ahead of what the intel's is in the lower wattage area. Even if they were to give it enough juice to be equivalent to their desktop side, it won't keep up.

I wonder why intel still hasn't picked up their game yet. I remember when they started to introduce the x3000 GPUs they were aiming to make a GPU that could game, but on lower settings. It never lived up to its name (except for bf2).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am a hard core gamer, but not like you guys:











haha thats awesome. and indeed, haha, resembles your pic on your blog very nicely. xD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If I had free time to game, I would be on my bike. With little free time I don't want to do things that take me away from the trails.


That's pretty kewl. I had a friend who was big in biking and went full out with custom parts. You got a bike all customized for biking...when you...can....get any time to go biking?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am XC as well. I cannot afford to be out of work because I did something stupid on the bike. I can't powerpoint with a fracture.


xD

What games you play on the 360? Wait, thats the wii. What wii games?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Domino* 
Ya, heard the same thing. But over the past few years and checking out some benechmarks, I see those Xeons on top for performance (where I just assumed that server market would favor the better performing chips).

That's pretty kewl. I had a friend who was big in biking and went full out with custom parts. You got a bike all customized for biking...when you...can....get any time to go biking?


Actually with Xeon we are on par with them on the benchmark front. Sometimes we win, sometimes they win.

On the bike, its a custom built Knolly, a boutique Canadian bike:


----------



## fRingE

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Actually with Xeon we are on par with them on the benchmark front. Sometimes we win, sometimes they win.

On the bike, its a custom built Knolly, a boutique Canadian bike:











Damn she's a beaut, I use to BMX and Dirt Trail and while back had me a Haro F1 and a X3 Backtrail. Never did MTB much though.


----------



## labbu63

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fRingE*


Damn she's a beaut, I use to BMX and Dirt Trail and while back had me a Haro F1 and a X3 Backtrail. Never did MTB much though.


Haro's are nice aren't they. Had one but someone stole it














. I have really bad luck. But i do have a question about Bulldozer. Would you say that Bulldozer is worth waiting for? I am not sure i want to get into this but not sure if i should wait or jump ship on a Phenom II x2 555. Help would be appreciated, thank you.


----------



## JF-AMD

That question is like asking "where should I go for dinner?" The answer is "it depends". You really haven't given enough data for anyone to make a decision.


----------



## motoray

why does amd wait so long to release information?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motoray;11664091*
> why does amd wait so long to release information?


Because it still is 4-6 months before the product launches.

4 Months ago, their was not much information out on Sandybridge, and it's only now (2 months before launch) do we have significant information on Sandybridge.

This is an AMD or Intel thing; it's the way business works.


----------



## JF-AMD

Actually, we have released more information, far earlier, for bulldozer than for any other product that I am aware of (in my 5 years here).


----------



## fRingE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motoray;11664091*
> why does amd wait so long to release information?


Theres no use in complaining when AMD is going to launch, its not going to make it come faster. Just chill and wait. ^_-


----------



## Twistacles

whhhatt bulldozer is in 4 months? I've been waiting since last summer to upgrade. Damn.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Twistacles*


whhhatt bulldozer is in 4 months? I've been waiting since last summer to upgrade. Damn.


Yuppers...should be around April.


----------



## JF-AMD

All we have said is Q2. There are 3 months in each quarter, so you have a 33% chance of being right.


----------



## closeracing

I hope this thing really does blow intel away. I just like to run benchmarks and now with the I7920-960's coming down I've been tempted to switch after seeing how much better they perform than a 1090T. I can wait a few months to decide though, I'd really like to see AMD on top of the performance game again.


----------



## ULAWE

cant wait for the AM3+, gunna throw out my lil sig rig for a new AMD beast


----------



## MIGhunter

Sorry didn't read the 30 pages of stuff, have they said what kind of MB we will need?


----------



## toyz72

i think sandy bridge is causing alot of Anxiety,lol. i have to admit that it would be nice to see or hear something positive about BD.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Roadmap claim
According to a roadmap leaked by a Swedish forum, the desktop version of Bulldozer comes by April. Engineering samples of Zambezi AM3+ CPU are expected in December 2010 and hopefully this has already happened.

Production candidate 32nm silicon should be ready by February 2011 and the CPU should be production ready by March 2011.

The launch should take place in April, which is the first month of Q2 2011. Many people expected this CPU at a later date, and this up to 8-core processor series might be something to get AMD much needed traction and attention.

The Scorpius platform also comes with AMD 990FX Northbridge that can take care of 2x16 PCIe Crossfire mode and it comes matched with SB950. The new SB950 southbridge supports Raid 5, 14 USB 2.0, 6 SATA ports at 6Gb/s as well as AMD overdrive. Unfortunately there is no native USB 3.0 support.

Scorpius also supports AMD 990X chipset with two 8X PCIe Crossfire capable slots, AMD 880G in AMD3+ version that has one 16X PCIe slot as well as integrated DX10.1 graphics card at 560MHz. The last chipset to support Scorpius needs is AMD 970 and this little one has only one PCIe16X slot, but the vast majority of people don't need more anyway.

http://www.amdforum.se/f24/llano-cpu-prestanda-3615/#post28660


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe*


Roadmap claim
According to a roadmap leaked by a Swedish forum, the desktop version of Bulldozer comes by April. Engineering samples of Zambezi AM3+ CPU are expected in December 2010 and hopefully this has already happened.

Production candidate 32nm silicon should be ready by February 2011 and the CPU should be production ready by March 2011.

The launch should take place in April, which is the first month of Q2 2011. Many people expected this CPU at a later date, and this up to 8-core processor series might be something to get AMD much needed traction and attention.

The Scorpius platform also comes with AMD 990FX Northbridge that can take care of 2x16 PCIe Crossfire mode and it comes matched with SB950. The new SB950 southbridge supports Raid 5, 14 USB 2.0, 6 SATA ports at 6Gb/s as well as AMD overdrive. Unfortunately there is no native USB 3.0 support.

Scorpius also supports AMD 990X chipset with two 8X PCIe Crossfire capable slots, AMD 880G in AMD3+ version that has one 16X PCIe slot as well as integrated DX10.1 graphics card at 560MHz. The last chipset to support Scorpius needs is AMD 970 and this little one has only one PCIe16X slot, but the vast majority of people don't need more anyway.

http://www.amdforum.se/f24/llano-cpu...615/#post28660




A. I can't be sure that those are AMD slides.
B. It does not say that the product launches in April.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


A. I can't be sure that those are AMD slides.
B. It does not say that the product launches in April.


Yes sir, these type of stories are rumor of course but still interesting enough to wet the appetite nonetheless. Happy Holidays to everyone here at Overclock.net!


----------



## nub

Will the shared integer core of the bulldozer module prevent running bigadv units on the 4 module desktop version of bulldozer?


----------



## Asus11

hmmm amd really need to get their act together before everyone jumps on sandy bridge, i really want bulldozer but the waiting could kill & sandy bridge is looking beasty


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


hmmm amd really need to get their act together before everyone jumps on sandy bridge, i really want bulldozer but the waiting could kill & sandy bridge is looking beasty


There are many fools out there that will buy Intel despite their better judgement. The wise man knows that an Intel only world is to be greatly feared. Therefore, I will only buy AMD and support only AMD. AMD has served me well since my DX 120 and will continue to do so as long as I live.







--> Intel


----------



## Ding Chavez

Only 2 mainstream CPU manufacturers is bad enough. A one chip maker market would be highly undesirable. +1 rep!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;11794586*
> Will the shared integer core of the bulldozer module prevent running bigadv units on the 4 module desktop version of bulldozer?


There is no shared integer core on bulldozer.


----------



## dr_bowtie

I am really looking forward to this.

Even though Intel always rushes things to market and seems to have the upper hand on things AMD still manages to pull the rabbit out of the hat from time to time.

Even so, the AMD parts always run cooler and more efficient. I for one use this as key ingredients when building a 24/7 rig for myself or customers. Heat is always a concern and even AMD realizes this with the 6000 series card. Cooler and more efficient over the 5000 series.

I always choose AMD for 99% of my builds and I have built many of both camps. I currently have an i7 in my sig but most of my rigs are AMD...

Good Job AMD


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twistacles;11709824*
> whhhatt bulldozer is in 4 months? I've been waiting since last summer to upgrade. Damn.


4 months?

I've been waiting since the Phenom I days! I can't talk myself into a Thuban 'cause I keep on thinking something new is just around the corner. So I'm still making do with my ancient conroe Pentium.

I sure hope Q2 implies early March, rather than late May.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;11818444*
> I sure hope Q2 implies early March, rather than late May.


March is Q1.


----------



## rui-no-onna

I'm kinda confused about the core counts (and I'm really not up to reading 30 pages worth of posts). Which of the following statements is correct, at least as it pertains to marketing?

4 modules = 4 cores
4 modules = 8 cores


----------



## Chucklez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;11846933*
> I'm kinda confused about the core counts (and I'm really not up to reading 30 pages worth of posts). Which of the following statements is correct, at least as it pertains to marketing?
> 
> 4 modules = 4 cores
> *4 modules = 8 cores*


I may be wrong but from what I have read its your second statement.


----------



## JF-AMD

Don't obsess on modules, they are for the engineers. We will not market processors with module counts, only core counts.


----------



## Choopy!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Don't obsess on modules, they are for the engineers. We will not market processors with module counts, only core counts.


I think how the cores work together is just as interesting and important as how many cores there actually are.


----------



## JF-AMD

The most important part is the "per socket" total throughput. That is where the rubber meets the road.


----------



## spartacus

Random though here, but I am really looking forward to see how AMD's bulldozer performs.
Unless it is a total flop, I'm pretty much going to build a 'dozer rig this year.


----------



## SlaveOnDope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11867368*
> The most important part is the "per socket" total throughput. That is where the rubber meets the road.


You mean that's where the tracks make the road










Intel's HT figuring out where to go


----------



## rickyman0319

i want to know is bulldozer going to be 125+w or it is just 125w only.


----------



## toyz72

i was hoping to hear something soon about BD. but all you hear is rumors and speculation of what it maybe. i really think now would be a good time to see some real reports or some evidence that its even going to compete with what we already know.


----------



## Atomfix

Bulldozer will never beat my 4.27GHz overclock Phenom 1055T @ 1.53V xDxDxD Torture!!

Jk!! haha


----------



## SystemTech

anybody got any new news on this? i think we are all pretty familiar with the architecture by now but any updates on the release? still q1/q2 2011? I really hope that it keeps up/kick sandy bridge in the 'GREAT BAAAAAALLS OF FIRE!!!!"









No seriously. I hope that it is a decent competitor for the Range topping CPU market.
With regards to the whole 'FX' naming thing, so what, its only the name of the CPU but if they deem it fast enough to bring back the former name, then cool.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SystemTech;11884830*
> With regards to the whole 'FX' naming thing, so what, its only the name of the CPU but if they deem it fast enough to bring back the former name, then cool.


Hmm, I wonder if that means Bulldozer has enough performance to sell $1000 consumer desktop processors again.


----------



## groodal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix;11884127*
> Bulldozer will never beat my 4.27GHz overclock Phenom 1055T @ 1.53V xDxDxD Torture!!
> 
> Jk!! haha


AGREED







however i wonder if bulldozers will be good overclockers too?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

So...any news as to WHEN these bulldozer bad-boys are gonna be released? @[email protected]


----------



## JF-AMD

News is the same, there will be no date updates until launch.


----------



## purpleannex

Jf, can you give us any insight into AMD thoughts about Sandy Bridge? The performance and price can't have gone unoticed. I expect you can't comment on this?


----------



## SystemTech

^^ Agreed, Would be nice to hear your comment JF.

So being a new socket, im guessing this means a new chipset to go with it... Will it be the same naming code as previous models or are amd going to change it? might be a good time to change it with the release of a whole new CPU architecture, and probably a new chipset architecture to go with it. JF, Is there any specs you can share about the chipset to go along with bulldozer? what quater it will be released in, differences from 890 chipset etc. anything. Thanks
Thanks


----------



## JF-AMD

I am in the server world, so my comments reflect servers. Take a look at MC vs. westmere today, in integer we are ~5% faster, in FP we are ~20% faster.

When they added 2 more cores to nehalem (50% more cores) they received ~33% more performance (average of FP and int). So natural scaling says that 2 more cores to SB later this year should net no more than 33% more performance, right? (straight math would say in the low 20% range, but there are other factors)

Now if I am ahead today, and I expect to get 50% more performance w/BD, where does that leave me relative to SB?

The reality is that until we actually have benchmarks and parts for both, nobody really knows for sure.


----------



## Asus11

willl bulldozer be coming out with 6990


----------



## JF-AMD

I have no idea about graphics products.


----------



## StuffStuff1

So JF..

AMD has always said Fusion is the future.

So when are we going to see the first GPU,CPU,NB,SB,RAM,SSD thats all etched into one super large chip?


----------



## Optimus_Prime

As far as i know Fusion means merging the CPU and GPU not any other parts....


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StuffStuff1;11915224*
> AMD has always said Fusion is the future.
> 
> So when are we going to see the first GPU,CPU,NB,SB,RAM,SSD thats all etched into one super large chip?


Hmm, thinking Intel may get there a little bit before AMD.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StuffStuff1;11915224*
> So JF..
> 
> AMD has always said Fusion is the future.
> 
> So when are we going to see the first GPU,CPU,NB,SB,RAM,SSD thats all etched into one super large chip?


Sorry, we use those for our internal systems, we don't share








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;11915808*
> As far as i know Fusion means merging the CPU and GPU not any other parts....


Actually fusion is also about the "compute fabric" and compute model. Bringing CPU and GPU togehter as a unified compute environment through things like OpenCL is also fusion, even if the CPU and GPU are different pieces of silicon.

An APU is the combination of CPU and GPU, the APU is a pysical product, fusion is a strategy.


----------



## AK-47

will either be getting this or sandy bridge this year
depending on performance and price


----------



## Optimus_Prime

i meant APU sorry


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am in the server world, so my comments reflect servers. Take a look at MC vs. westmere today, in integer we are ~5% faster, in FP we are ~20% faster.

When they added 2 more cores to nehalem (50% more cores) they received ~33% more performance (average of FP and int). So natural scaling says that 2 more cores to SB later this year should net no more than 33% more performance, right? (straight math would say in the low 20% range, but there are other factors)

Now if I am ahead today, and I expect to get 50% more performance w/BD, where does that leave me relative to SB?

The reality is that until we actually have benchmarks and parts for both, nobody really knows for sure.


MC 8 or 12 core version vs Intels 4 or 6 core chip?

I think our biggest concern isn't at all related to how many cores are on the die so much as how fast each core is.

Assuming 50% performance based off the Phenom II chip with more cores we're looking at a score around 10 in Cinebench 11.5 when the chip is at 3.2GHz with 8 cores.

Intel's Sandy Bridge is getting around 7 with four cores/8 threads @ 3.4Ghz.

Assuming Intel releases a 8 core 16 thread chip you're looking at around 14 in Cinebench 11.5 vs AMD's 10.

I dunno if my math is even close, but thats what my brain told me.

Then we step into the realm of overclocking we already know the SB chips overclocked 4 cores 8 threads can hit 10 in Cinebench 11.5, double the cores and threads and you're looking at around 20 in Cinebench 11.5.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


MC 8 or 12 core version vs Intels 4 or 6 core chip?

I think our biggest concern isn't at all related to how many cores are on the die so much as how fast each core is.

Assuming 50% performance based off the Phenom II chip with more cores we're looking at a score around 10 in Cinebench 11.5 when the chip is at 3.2GHz with 8 cores.

Intel's Sandy Bridge is getting around 7 with four cores/8 threads @ 3.4Ghz.

Assuming Intel releases a 8 core 16 thread chip you're looking at around 14 in Cinebench 11.5 vs AMD's 10.

I dunno if my math is even close, but thats what my brain told me.

Then we step into the realm of overclocking we already know the SB chips overclocked 4 cores 8 threads can hit 10 in Cinebench 11.5, double the cores and threads and you're looking at around 20 in Cinebench 11.5.


I think he's comparing not based on cores, but based on processors with the same TDP.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I think it's 33% more cores 50% more performance...

If a 1090T is getting 5.71 now, then a 8 core bulldozer chip should get around 11 with the same clocks right?

Correct me if that's wrong.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;11920650*
> MC 8 or 12 core version vs Intels 4 or 6 core chip?
> 
> I think our biggest concern isn't at all related to how many cores are on the die so much as how fast each core is.
> 
> Assuming 50% performance based off the Phenom II chip with more cores we're looking at a score around 10 in Cinebench 11.5 when the chip is at 3.2GHz with 8 cores.
> 
> Intel's Sandy Bridge is getting around 7 with four cores/8 threads @ 3.4Ghz.
> 
> Assuming Intel releases a 8 core 16 thread chip you're looking at around 14 in Cinebench 11.5 vs AMD's 10.
> 
> I dunno if my math is even close, but thats what my brain told me.
> 
> Then we step into the realm of overclocking we already know the SB chips overclocked 4 cores 8 threads can hit 10 in Cinebench 11.5, double the cores and threads and you're looking at around 20 in Cinebench 11.5.


He's comparing Server chips

Also, being that we don't know for sure how the SB server chips will perform, you're still comparing them against AMD's current offerings.

That being said, realistically, you wouldn't double from adding more cores as it doesn't increase like that. You'll maybe get 11 or so. I'd be shocked if they got 12.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;11921183*
> I think it's 33% more cores 50% more performance...
> 
> If a 1090T is getting 5.71 now, then a 8 core bulldozer chip should get around 11 with the same clocks right?
> 
> Correct me if that's wrong.


Again, keep in mind that when JF talks about CPU's and performance, he's generally talking about server parts. So he doesn't compare desktop parts. He's talking about MC.


----------



## BallaTheFeared




----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I think it's 33% more cores 50% more performance...

If a 1090T is getting 5.71 now, then a 8 core bulldozer chip should get around 11 with the same clocks right?

Correct me if that's wrong.


I think that's roughly correct if Magny-Cours to Bulldozer is similar to Thuban to Bulldozer. I'm not sure it is. It may be a bigger performance increase when going to Bulldozer from Thuban.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*





















It's okay...only a few more months until BD launches









Quote:



Originally Posted by *lonewolf371*


I think that's roughly correct if Magny-Cours to Bulldozer is similar to Thuban to Bulldozer. I'm not sure it is. It may be a bigger performance increase when going to Bulldozer from Thuban.


Well we already know there's going to be both an Integer Core and FPU improvement from current Architecture to the newer architecture. The question is how much of an improvement and there will be no answers until that information is actually released.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

My thing is you could give me 20 cores, however in most cases 16 of them aren't going to matter.


----------



## Djankie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My thing is you could give me 20 cores, however in most cases 16 of them aren't going to matter.


 it really looks Cool when ctrl + alt + delete and you'll see 20 threats.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## BallaTheFeared

20 threats?!?!

Hit the self destruct!


----------



## Amor

@Djankie: Don't you just love typing on a phone









At least it's better than texting your wife/girlfriend with "Having a great time honey, wish you were her".

JD: I know you're a server guy but I was reading Ars reporting on CES and basically with this "Intel Insider" thing Ars makes it seem like Hollywood has strong armed Intel into adding a (low level?) DRM solution into it's SB chips. The way the article was written it sounds like "resistance is futile" but do you think that AMD would ever follow suit willingly or would it put up a fight? Not to mention, (quoting from the article here)

Quote:



The burden of supporting Hollywood's parade of failed DRM schemes has fallen exclusively on the technology makers, who must add costly hardware and software to their products to restrict their functionality in ways that consumers detest.


Really, I think that if Hollywood wants these "unfeatures" added to electronics they should pay for it themselves but once these solutions get hacked around it becomes a cat and mouse game for the electronics makers and it sounds like hollywood isn't putting any money into battling the "pirates" and the money has to come from somewhere which means that this cat and mouse game will eat into electronics makers own profits. If you're allowed to disclose these things what are your views on what AMD will do and/or your personal thoughts.

Article in question: http://arstechnica.com/business/news...rmed-intel.ars


----------



## StuffStuff1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11919125*
> The APU is a pysical product, fusion is a strategy.


I like the way this sounded..

Problem is aren't all the APU for integrated circuits? (I might be using the wrong terminology here but i think you get my vib) [Kinda like the Intel ATOM]

When will we see the arrival of Mobos (like one we can buy off Newegg) with this chip already integrated?


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StuffStuff1;11924108*
> I like the way this sounded..
> 
> Problem is aren't all the APU for integrated circuits? (I might be using the wrong terminology here but i think you get my vib) [Kinda like the Intel ATOM]
> 
> When will we see the arrival of Mobos (like one we can buy off Newegg) with this chip already integrated?


An integrated circuit is a chip (e.g. a CPU, a GPU, a northbridge chipset). You're asking if they'll all be embedded, and they won't. Roughly, the Llano APU will take the Athlon II market segment and Zambezi (not an APU) will take the Phenom II segment. However, the Llano released this year will use updated K10 cores for the CPU part. Llano will be replaced in 2012 by Trinity, which will include Bulldozer CPU cores.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;11921890*
> My thing is you could give me 20 cores, however in most cases 16 of them aren't going to matter.


Again, JF comes from the server world. That means there's certainly demand for more cores. At the very least, you could consolidate more VM's in one server. If you look at the math, Bulldozer improves per core performance by 12.5% vs Magny Cours.


----------



## JF-AMD

Don't start doing that 12% math again, it is not right. When the product is out, you will understand why.


----------



## StuffStuff1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11926687*
> Don't start doing that 12% math again, it is not right. When the product is out, you will understand why.


This is what i hate about you!
You wont ever give us a hint









Now here my question do YOU know?!?!?!?

[Believe me we are all dieing to know!]


----------



## Behemoth777

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StuffStuff1;11934670*
> This is what i hate about you!
> You wont ever give us a hint


It's not worth his job.


----------



## StuffStuff1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Behemoth777;11934707*
> It's not worth his job.


The customer is always right


----------



## AMD HATER

lol


----------



## DrDarkTempler

Man, you guys asking too much question about Bulldozer to JF, you gonna get him into trouble! >.<

don't ask question that is obvious that he won't share to the public lol, AMD want to keep this low profile until is ready to lunch.

Last thing they want is leak info and intel got them info...

When Times comes he'll tell us everything

My only question to you JF, is how the top of the line AMD Bulldozer compares to the Intel one (Intel Xeon X7560 Nehalem-EX or i7 980x)? Will it be price competitive?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrDarkTempler;11934902*
> Man, you guys asking too much question about Bulldozer to JF, you gonna get him into trouble! >.<
> 
> don't ask question that is obvious that he won't share to the public lol, AMD want to keep this low profile until is ready to lunch.
> 
> Last thing they want is leak info and intel got them info...
> 
> When Times comes he'll tell us everything
> 
> My only question to you JF, is how the top of the line AMD Bulldozer compares to the Intel one (Intel Xeon X7560 Nehalem-EX or i7 980x)? Will it be price competitive?


"Guyz stop asking mr AMD so many questions, he won't reveal anything until release"

*asks another question*


----------



## StuffStuff1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;11934923*
> "Guyz stop asking mr AMD so many questions, he won't reveal anything until release"
> 
> *asks another question*


----------



## Asus11

i have a feeling its going to be end of march


----------



## JF-AMD

Yes, of course I know the server performance.

But the client performance is different because things have been optimized for client workloads, so their performance profile will be different from ours.

We look at throughput, they look at speed. It is a very different world.


----------



## jach11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11935836*
> Yes, of course I know the server performance.
> 
> But the client performance is different because things have been optimized for client workloads, so their performance profile will be different from ours.
> 
> We look at throughput, they look at speed. It is a very different world.


I agree. Who wants to spend $1000 on a CPU? A 955 is still the best cpu for the money on the market now.







Great job AMD!


----------



## AMD HATER

good job!


----------



## purpleannex

I really want Bulldozer to succeed. But i find myself constantly going back and forth between belief and disbelief.

AMD's reluctance to give anything away is disheartening, what could Intel do with the knowledge anyway? It's too late to change sandy Bridge / Ivy bridge, and Intel will know all in a couple of months for future designs (not that i think Intel will be copying AMD) anyway.

I do believe AMD is losing a lot of customers to Sandy Bridge, a loss that could be stemmed if customers had something to believe in.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes, of course I know the server performance.

But the client performance is different because things have been optimized for client workloads, so their performance profile will be different from ours.

We look at throughput, they look at speed. It is a very different world.


Do you see the game changing at the server level? Let's say Intel is able to get 33+33 gain (78%) optimally and 33+20 pessimistically (60%), that leaves AMD a little behind in the performance race either way. Now, the question becomes one of yields and manufacturing costs; can you comment on whether it's going to be easier to make a Bulldozer vs. a Sandy Bridge?

It seems quite important even to us clients, as server profits would filter back into research and lead to better products for us.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


I really want Bulldozer to succeed. But i find myself constantly going back and forth between belief and disbelief.

AMD's reluctance to give anything away is disheartening, what could Intel do with the knowledge anyway? It's too late to change sandy Bridge / Ivy bridge, and Intel will know all in a couple of months for future designs (not that i think Intel will be copying AMD) anyway.

I do believe AMD is losing a lot of customers to Sandy Bridge, a loss that could be stemmed if customers had something to believe in.


This is pretty standard not only with our launches, but also our competitors' launches. There were no official sandybridge benchmarks until their launch.

While you believe we are losing customers to sandybridge, others may feel differently.

I have been in this business for about 20 years and I can tell you that the position that AMD is in relative to the launch dates of our product and our competitor has been played out hundreds of times, we all understand the challenges.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lonewolf371*


Do you see the game changing at the server level? Let's say Intel is able to get 33+33 gain (78%) optimally and 33+20 pessimistically (60%), that leaves AMD a little behind in the performance race either way. Now, the question becomes one of yields and manufacturing costs; can you comment on whether it's going to be easier to make a Bulldozer vs. a Sandy Bridge?

It seems quite important even to us clients, as server profits would filter back into research and lead to better products for us.


OK, let's look at your assumption.

When intel went from 4 cores to 6 cores with westmere, they increased core count by 50% and increased performance by ~33%.

We have seen on the client side ~10-15% increase in performance.

Sandybridge will have 33% more cores.

If you take the old scaling (33% performance on 50% core increase) you can assume that adding 2 more cores gets them ~22% increase.

Today they are 5% behind AMD in spec int rate (x5680 vs. 6176 SE). So they have a deficit of 5%, but they get ~22% for more cores and ~15% for architecture improvments.

That comes out to ~ 32% greater than our EXISTING products, right? But bulldozer will be ~50% greater than our existing products, which nets ~18% performance advantage for AMD.

I have no idea where you are getting the 60-78% performance increases, those numbers just aren't real.

Mine probably aren't right, but at least they are built on two known factors (how thier cores have traditionally scaled in their architecture and the sandybridge scaling that they just delivered.)


----------



## boostinsteve

I am stoked and waiting. I am ready for an update to my gear now. My aging 940 is starting to show now. I can barely get it to 3.4 Ghz, and it still fails prime95. 3 cores are defective and are getting localized heating now. Let's see what Bulldozer can do.


----------



## StuffStuff1

JF-AMD i think you need to make a thread and get it stickied.

Rumors V Fact

In the past three days i think i can quote you five times saying those are Inaccurate numbers or something.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have no idea where you are getting the 60-78% performance increases, those numbers just aren't real.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Don't start doing that 12% math again, it is not right. When the product is out, you will understand why.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


This is not true.


(Well i got 3) But still. Considering you only post 4~5 times a day its a lot.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11942490*
> OK, let's look at your assumption.
> 
> When intel went from 4 cores to 6 cores with westmere, they increased core count by 50% and increased performance by ~33%.
> 
> We have seen on the client side ~10-15% increase in performance.
> 
> Sandybridge will have 33% more cores.
> 
> If you take the old scaling (33% performance on 50% core increase) you can assume that adding 2 more cores gets them ~22% increase.
> 
> Today they are 5% behind AMD in spec int rate (x5680 vs. 6176 SE). So they have a deficit of 5%, but they get ~22% for more cores and ~15% for architecture improvments.
> 
> That comes out to ~ 32% greater than our EXISTING products, right? But bulldozer will be ~50% greater than our existing products, which nets ~18% performance advantage for AMD.
> 
> I have no idea where you are getting the 60-78% performance increases, those numbers just aren't real.
> 
> Mine probably aren't right, but at least they are built on two known factors (how thier cores have traditionally scaled in their architecture and the sandybridge scaling that they just delivered.)


I see what you mean. I got mine from this post:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11913071*
> I am in the server world, so my comments reflect servers. Take a look at MC vs. westmere today, in integer we are ~5% faster, in FP we are ~20% faster.
> 
> When they added 2 more cores to nehalem (50% more cores) they received ~33% more performance (average of FP and int). So natural scaling says that 2 more cores to SB later this year should net no more than 33% more performance, right? (straight math would say in the low 20% range, but there are other factors)
> 
> Now if I am ahead today, and I expect to get 50% more performance w/BD, where does that leave me relative to SB?
> 
> The reality is that until we actually have benchmarks and parts for both, nobody really knows for sure.


But I didn't actually consider the number of cores they were adding. My numbers required adding 50% more cores in each architecture upgrade (not used to some of the lingo), which is why they are so far off. So, long story short, you see AMD coming out ahead on the server end of things going into this summer? That's nice to hear. Hopefully you guys won't run into any manufacturing issues once demand starts to ramp up.

On a side note: if AMD has a performance advantage, how does AMD get the world to stop running on Xeons?


----------



## JF-AMD

Well, until all parts are out, actual performance is still a question mark.

From a manufacturing standpoint client production starts first, so by the time we hit production there should be a huge number of wafers already run through the fab.


----------



## Asus11

do you think maybe bulldozer isnt as cracked up as its ment to be thats why amd is keeping it shh shh for so long, instead of leaking info of a weaker competitor..maybe? i dunno


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


do you think maybe bulldozer isnt as cracked up as its ment to be thats why amd is keeping it shh shh for so long, instead of leaking info of a weaker competitor..maybe? i dunno


Actually our communications cadence is usually a lot lower than this. We have been far more vocal about bulldozer than any other product that I have worked on in the last 4.5 years. Normally the comment is "we don't comment on unannounced products", evne up to the day before the launch.

If you look at how much we have blogged, how much detail we have shared, and compare it to previous launches, under your assumption we must think bulldozer will be huge.

Please note that intel didn't provide an official sandybridge benchmark until the day of the launch. What we are doing is no different and standard in the industry.


----------



## knoxy_14

has anybody heard anything about overclocking on these guys? really looking forward to testing them out when they come out


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11942490*
> This is pretty standard not only with our launches, but also our competitors' launches. There were no official sandybridge benchmarks until their launch.
> 
> While you believe we are losing customers to sandybridge, others may feel differently.
> 
> I have been in this business for about 20 years and I can tell you that the position that AMD is in relative to the launch dates of our product and our competitor has been played out hundreds of times, we all understand the challenges.


Yeah, we know you're right, but it's just getting frustrating, i've been waiting ~1.5 yrs for this, i know thats not that long, but with launch now being so close i think people expect a few leaks, the samples are out, someone must know how it performs!

It's probably really an indictment of my sad life, i should probably stop looking at this forum everyday waiting for news, just go and do something productive until April..... NAH!


----------



## Pedros

Guys, i guess these are great news:
Quote:


> H 2011
> We have some good news for everyone who would like to see AMD make a big comeback in style.
> 
> Since the time when Athlon used to be a high-end brand, and by that we mean the good old K8 core, it's been a while since AMD had a high end part capable of competing with Intel on a par.
> 
> However, initial test scores that slipped to a hands of industry source are suggesting that Bulldozer should come really close to new Core i7 six-core CPUs. Bulldozer has both six and eight cores in the pipeline and they should be launching before the end of Q2 2011, at least that is the current schedule.
> 
> The performance of Bulldozer should come really close to Core i7, but we don't know if this might be enough to take Intel's high end market dominance. Samples of Bulldozer are out for a while now and the full production should start as soon as this quarter.
> 
> Sources are suggesting that and yields should be quite good and that the chip is doing just fine in 32nm. One thing is certain, even if Core i7 remains faster, Bulldozer X8 and X6 parts should end up way cheaper. It looks like AMD will finally give Intel a run for its money.


Source


----------



## BallaTheFeared

What new x6 chips from Intel?

Do they mean 970 or 980x???

Way to vague... Are they talking about the x8 version or the x6 version coming "close"?


----------



## Lostcase

I would like to know as well. I just hope bulldozer wow's everyone and stays on top of the cpu game for a few years. Competition is awesome.


----------



## Pedros

Well... i'll be searching for a non-HT system and this Bulldozer may be what i'm looking for.

If this chip has a good price/performance ratio and are good overclockers... i'm all into this and make the switch









More an more i want a overclockable system ... it's for the sake of fun, enjoyment and adventure...









That's why SB systems are a good bet ... although the adventure of OC has a handicap in those SB's ... basically ... it's no fun









Lets see


----------



## MacLeod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11963044*
> Please note that intel didn't provide an official sandybridge benchmark until the day of the launch. What we are doing is no different and standard in the industry.


Well not exactly. HardOCP, Toms, Anand and Guru and probably others had official reviews out on the 3rd, a week before the release. Pricing even came out a couple days before release.

I think the frustration youre starting to see bubble up is because it seems to be taking so long. Sandy Bridge rumors started surfacing around April/May of last year and theyre out not. Bulldozer rumors have been going on since 09 and theyre still months away.

As a devout AMD fanboy, Im just tired of having to hear about Sandy Bridge all the time.


----------



## Pedros

You must admit Macleod ... SB is a damn good chip







Going AMD is more about being different than being better







It's less expensive, but... with the i5 2500K SB i think that the difference in price is going to be lower between both architectures ...

BUT ... big BUT ... we must not forget that SB is a level bellow the Bulldozer class ... so, we can't really go and keep comparing ...


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Pedros*


You must admit Macleod ... SB is a damn good chip







Going AMD is more about being different than being better







It's less expensive, but... with the i5 2500K SB i think that the difference in price is going to be lower between both architectures ...

BUT ... big BUT ... we must not forget that SB is a level bellow the Bulldozer class ... so, we can't really go and keep comparing ...


I would like to think of Intel vs. AMD is simply a slugfest with both of them exchanging blows. However, it has been a while since AMD has actually struck a blow to Intel. And people have come to rely on and expect Intel's clockwork like release schedule. They are consistent and remain the leader. And as someone else said rumors don't circulate long with Intel as products follow up the rumors within months. AMD can be much longer. I think it feels even longer because people are waiting to get behind something that truly competes with Intel on every level at a lower price point. And it would also be true to say many enthusiasts wish to see AMD dominate the high end class as well. What I fear is that AMD will once again come close to doing this or at least compete on equal levels only to have Intel release Ivy Bridge month's later to only put AMD in the rear view mirror without having ever passed them and never able to keep up. At this point Intel is constantly leading this race and AMD needs to at least race along side them consistently, not just for a short while, and hopefully exceed Intel.

I bought a 2500K and I also have an AMD system waiting to be rebuilt with Bulldozer. I only hope AMD smokes Intel to inject some much needed fuel into their system.


----------



## MacLeod

I look at it like this - Intel is faster clock for clock. AMD is faster dollar for dollar.

For broke ass guys like me, getting the most performance to dollar is very important and AMD's value simply cannot be beat. I mean I paid $85 for my trusty 555 and I get 3 cores at 4 GHz.

With AMD you get 85% of the performance for 33% of the price. Thats very important to me.

That being said, the new i5 is creeping dangerously close to AMD pricing range. There are i5-760's going for $170'ish here and there and from a gaming standpoint, these are as good as the i7's.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;11942490*
> This is pretty standard not only with our launches, but also our competitors' launches. *There were no official sandybridge benchmarks until their launch.*


There were though, anandtech.com (a very reputable website) reviewed the i5-2400 4 months before Sandy Bridge launched:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-preview-three-wins-in-a-row/11

Also, would you happen to know who's going to replace Dirk Meyer as the next CEO?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacLeod;11969974*
> Well not exactly. HardOCP, Toms, Anand and Guru and probably others had official reviews out on the 3rd, a week before the release. Pricing even came out a couple days before release.
> 
> I think the frustration youre starting to see bubble up is because it seems to be taking so long. Sandy Bridge rumors started surfacing around April/May of last year and theyre out not. Bulldozer rumors have been going on since 09 and theyre still months away.
> 
> As a devout AMD fanboy, Im just tired of having to hear about Sandy Bridge all the time.


If we were a week away from launch you would have a valid argument.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight;11974363*
> There were though, anandtech.com (a very reputable website) reviewed the i5-2400 4 months before Sandy Bridge launched:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-preview-three-wins-in-a-row/11


That was not an official intel release and not official benchmarks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MacLeod*


I look at it like this - Intel is faster clock for clock. AMD is faster dollar for dollar.



That all changed with Sandy Bridge though.

The x6 just can't compete with the i5-2500k, even with two extra cores.

Intel has taken the $200 range chip from AMD, and it's clear they dominate everything above it.

I don't know what your thinking is on this - but mine is it's pretty hard to pay for R&D when you're reduced to the sub $150 market to have any sort of share.


----------



## sergeym

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


That all changed with Sandy Bridge though.

The x6 just can't compete with the i5-2500k, even with two extra cores.

Intel has taken the $200 range chip from AMD, and it's clear they dominate everything above it.

I don't know what your thinking is on this - but mine is it's pretty hard to pay for R&D when you're reduced to the sub $150 market to have any sort of share.


It's kind of pointless to compare current x6 to SB. We should wait for BD.


----------



## StuffStuff1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sergeym*


It's kind of pointless to compare current x6 to SB. We should wait for BD.


Not entirely.

People who have X6's want to know if they still have bragging rights. And people with Sb want to feel good about there purchase..

So as far as bragging rights go its fine. If you want to talk about the latest and greatest ill make sure to follow all of AMD's feeds.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sergeym*


It's kind of pointless to compare current x6 to SB. We should wait for BD.


Right now Intel is clearly ahead with their new processors. And for the most part they were ahead even previous to the launch of their new processors.

So when AMD finally launches their new processors I am willing to bet it they will either falls short or compete for a short while until Intel releases yet again their Ivy Bridge potentially the end of this year. And then there we are with AMD always playing catch up.

Of course I do not wish for it to be like that as competition is a good thing. Yet, as far as market share, price/performance, and general public knowledge who do you think is the consistent leader the past few years? I wish AMD could humble Intel with their new Bulldozer launch. Perhaps if Bulldozer cannot do it and convince more manufacturers to go with AMD then maybe they have something revolutionary in the pipeline that will blow our minds.


----------



## ThePath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am in the server world, so my comments reflect servers. Take a look at MC vs. westmere today, in integer we are ~5% faster, in FP we are ~20% faster.

When they added 2 more cores to nehalem (50% more cores) they received ~33% more performance (average of FP and int). So natural scaling says that 2 more cores to SB later this year should net *no more* than 33% more performance, right? (straight math would say in the low 20% range, but there are other factors)


Do you mean by "no more than 33%" that difference between 6-core and 4-core nehalem could not get over 33% in any benchmark ?

If that what you mean then you are very wrong

look at this http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...3451/21966.png

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/c...3451/21971.png

The difference between 980X and similar clocked i7 975 is nearly 50% in x264 HD Video Encoding (2nd pass) and in pov-ray


----------



## GenTarkin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath;11983604*
> Do you mean by "no more than 33%" that difference between 6-core and 4-core nehalem could not get over 33% in any benchmark ?
> 
> If that what you mean then you are very wrong
> 
> look at this http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/corei7980x_031010193451/21966.png
> 
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/corei7980x_031010193451/21971.png
> 
> The difference between 980X and similar clocked i7 975 is nearly 50% in x264 HD Video Encoding (2nd pass) and in pov-ray


Dude, its closer to 35% faster LOL! check your math


----------



## ThePath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenTarkin;11985405*
> Dude, its closer to 35% faster LOL! *check your math*


No, you are the one who should do that

980X vs 975 in the first benchmark
48.8/33.1 = 1.474, so the difference between the two is ~ 47%

And the second one is
6424/4379 = 1.467 ~ almost 47%


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;11982555*
> Right now Intel is clearly ahead with their new processors. And for the most part they were ahead even previous to the launch of their new processors.
> 
> So when AMD finally launches their new processors I am willing to bet it they will either falls short or compete for a short while until Intel releases yet again their Ivy Bridge potentially the end of this year. And then there we are with AMD always playing catch up.
> 
> Of course I do not wish for it to be like that as competition is a good thing. Yet, as far as market share, price/performance, and general public knowledge who do you think is the consistent leader the past few years? I wish AMD could humble Intel with their new Bulldozer launch. Perhaps if Bulldozer cannot do it and convince more manufacturers to go with AMD then maybe they have something revolutionary in the pipeline that will blow our minds.


+1

If Intel takes the overclocking philosophy behind SB into the future, though, I could see AMD pulling overclockers away. Perhaps I'm just unaware of where the technology is going (away from BCLCK calculations and towards simple multi ramps), but that seems to push away overclockers. Also the incorporation of Turbo and Speedstep I'm not too happy with.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath;11983604*
> Do you mean by "no more than 33%" that difference between 6-core and 4-core nehalem could not get over 33% in any benchmark ?
> 
> If that what you mean then you are very wrong
> 
> look at this http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/corei7980x_031010193451/21966.png
> 
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/corei7980x_031010193451/21971.png
> 
> The difference between 980X and similar clocked i7 975 is nearly 50% in x264 HD Video Encoding (2nd pass) and in pov-ray


No my comment is based on their spec int and spec FP scores, one went up ~24% and one went up ~42%, so the net of the two is ~33%

The reason I say that it can't be above 33% is that if adding 50% more cores equals a 33% increase in peformance, then adding 33% more cores is going to be less, right?


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


That all changed with Sandy Bridge though.

The x6 just can't compete with the i5-2500k, even with two extra cores.

Intel has taken the $200 range chip from AMD, and it's clear they dominate everything above it.

I don't know what your thinking is on this - but mine is it's pretty hard to pay for R&D when you're reduced to the sub $150 market to have any sort of share.


Well spoken Mr. Intel FanBoy. Just what do you mean exactly by X6 can't compete with SB? Are you daft? How fast do you need to go? Can't compete my arse!


----------



## lyster

First generation Bulldozer on AM3+.
Second generation Bulldozer on AM4.

Anyone know if this is a likely senario???

And how long was it between Phenom 1 and Phenom 2 being launched???


----------



## Pedros

Wow ... these are big claims...
Quote:


> Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II
> Here, take some salt. AMD reportedly gave out performance figures in a presentation to its partners, performance figures seen by DonanimHaber. It is reported that an 8-core processor based on the "Bulldozer" high-performance CPU architecture is pitched by its makers to have 50% higher performance than existing processors such as the Core i7 950 (4 cores, 8 threads), and Phenom II X6 1100T (6 cores). Very little is known about the processor, including at what clock speed the processor was running at, much less what other components were driving the test machine.
> 
> Taking this information into account, the said Bulldozer based processor should synthetically even outperform Core i7 980X six-core, Intel's fastest desktop processor in the market. Built from ground-up, the Bulldozer architecture focuses on greater inter-core communication and reconfigured ALU/FPU to achieve higher instructions per clock cycle (IPC) compared to the previous generation K10.5, on which its current Phenom II series processors are based. The processor is backed by new 9-series core logic, and a new AM3+ socket. AMD is expected to unveil this platform a little later this year.


Source


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe;11993426*
> Well spoken Mr. Intel FanBoy. Just what do you mean exactly by X6 can't compete with SB? Are you daft? How fast do you need to go? Can't compete my arse!


This isn't the how fast do I need to go forum, it is the how fast can I go forum.

It is called Overclock.net for a reason.

And by your sentiments it comes down to what do you need for what you want to do. While I agree with that, most people on here go for the extra just to do it because they are enthusiasts. I don't think going to 90-120 FPS in a game is going to make a lick of difference from 60-80FPS, but some people will want that power if for no other reason to say they can. Of course the higher performing your system is the longer it should last and handle new technology and games. There is a point of negligible return though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pedros;11996172*
> Wow ... these are big claims...
> 
> Source


Wow.... if that is true then all they have to do is what Sandy bridge did and release the processors in the $180 - $300 range and instant win!


----------



## Pedros

Yep ... i'm very excited about this one ... basically because it's a new platform and not a "refreshed" build ...

Let's hope this is good... and that the OC power can be "enthusiastic"


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime*


This isn't the how fast do I need to go forum, it is the how fast can I go forum.

It is called Overclock.net for a reason.

And by your sentiments it comes down to what do you need for what you want to do. While I agree with that, most people on here go for the extra just to do it because they are enthusiasts. I don't think going to 90-120 FPS in a game is going to make a lick of difference from 60-80FPS, but some people will want that power if for no other reason to say they can. Of course the higher performing your system is the longer it should last and handle new technology and games. There is a point of negligible return though.

Wow.... if that is true then all they have to do is what Sandy bridge did and release the processors in the $180 - $300 range and instant win!


Thanks for making a similar point to my own. To make categorical claims that X6 can't compete because its seconds slower is ******ed and an obvious intel fanboy claim that can't hold water. No computer no matter how fast is able to transcode an entire movie instantaneously. Everybody waits and that's a fact! So if the Intel fanboys are waiting a few seconds less than the AMD fanboys wait that proves what exactly? The bunch of you act like you make a living at this and that extra multi gigabyte bit of work you get done everyday because you use Intel instead of AMD is money in your employers pocket and therefore money in your pocket. Grow up little children! AMD can and does compete quite well thank you very much!


----------



## purpleannex

It makes me laugh when "serious IT professionals" need 980x's to do their multi threaded rendering work, thus "justifying the huge cost. But they'd get more rendering done buying a server cpu, but then they don't sound as sexy, do they?!

You'll also notice quite often that "serious IT professionals" who use 980x's will have something like GTX 580 2x sli, or HD 5970 CF etc... I'm sure they help in their "business use".


----------



## SystemTech

Wow, Not even one little peep over the MSI showing of their 990FX board (Big Bang Conqueror), It looks really good but ill wait for the ASUS ROG 990FX to be released.
Notice the AM3+ support in between the PCI_E slots
Still no fully integrated USB 3.0







How are they still just using the addon controller?

Pics in here


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I still can't wait for Bulldozer. I think if the rumored claims hold true and they can compete with Sandy Bridge price wise then I think they have a winner on their hands and perhaps finally can take back the crown.


----------



## MacLeod

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If we were a week away from launch you would have a valid argument.


LOL! Touche.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe;12006017*
> Thanks for making a similar point to my own. To make categorical claims that X6 can't compete because its seconds slower is ******ed and an obvious intel fanboy claim that can't hold water. No computer no matter how fast is able to transcode an entire movie instantaneously. Everybody waits and that's a fact! So if the Intel fanboys are waiting a few seconds less than the AMD fanboys wait that proves what exactly? The bunch of you act like you make a living at this and that extra multi gigabyte bit of work you get done everyday because you use Intel instead of AMD is money in your employers pocket and therefore money in your pocket. Grow up little children! AMD can and does compete quite well thank you very much!


I like how I am the fanboy because I've had a Regor 245, two 555's, a 965, and a 1090T all in the last several months from AMD. I spent a lot of money on AMD products and at the time of purchase I thought they were all ahead of Intel in the price > performance area.

My statement comes from the fact that 4 cores 4 threads is able to beat 6 cores 6 threads in even multi-tasking based applications, and the 4 core 4 thread chip is cheaper than the 1090T. With the updated instruction sets the difference could be very minor, or moderate at best. However we're still talking about 4 vs 6. And that comes back to the other side of the coin which is much more important to me, single thread performance. Its pretty well known by most everyone who has a x6 chip that most software doesn't utilize it and most games use 50% of those cores or less.

Thats a problem because at 100% core usage 6 is getting beat by 4 (albeit not by a lot), but when 6 becomes 3 and 4 becomes 3 the difference is much greater than it was before.

In the end as an everyday user all that matters is the single thread performance in relation to how many threads you can use. On my 1090T I rarely used every thread unless I was running a benchmark, because of this I "downgraded" to an x4 with much better single thread performance and the difference between the two has left me feeling "overpowered". I feel like I have a lot of extra room to play with, which is something I didn't feel with my 1090T despite the addition of two more cores.

The kicker was the price, the i5-2500k was $5 less than the 1090T which isn't a big deal, except it is to me because I've always been one for price/performance and in this single instance it's pretty clear to even AMD folks that Intel currently has the upper hand at this price range.

Which is my point really, AMD's flagship high end chips can't complete in price, nor can they compete in performance with Intels newest low end mainstream chips. I await bulldozer same as everyone else, I hope it delivers.


----------



## Pedros

Balla... the SB it's an amazing little chip ...








But... you know... This is the first chip from Intel, that is a bargain!









Let's see how the new AMD will be...


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Intel spends billions to make sure that their customers can't buy a cheap chip and overclock it cutting into their more expensive performers territory. However, AMD would do the same if the tables were turned. It's all about squeezing as much moolah from us as they can. We enthusiasts are the smallest part of their base but we create the buzz for their products with our passion. They owe us for the advertising at the very least and I for one don't like Intel crippling SB the way they have. They have in effect screwed themselves and AMD will profit from their greed. There would be no "K" series chips if AMD weren't around. Way to go Intel. Real smart the way you treat your customers!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I see there is no reason to talk with you.

Have a nice day.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I see there is no reason to talk with you.

Have a nice day.


I'm not attacking anyone and fail to see what your issue with me is. You have your opinion and I have mine. If I'm attacking anything it's Intel with their shoddy attitude towards their customers. What's wrong with that?


----------



## Riou

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe*


I'm not attacking anyone and fail to see what your issue with me is. You have your opinion and I have mine. If I'm attacking anything it's Intel with their shoddy attitude towards their customers. What's wrong with that?










Balla has very strong feelings about Sandy Bridge. He is very sensitive of any criticism of Sandy Bridge.


----------



## Ghostcracker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Balla has very strong feelings about Sandy Bridge. He is very sensitive of any criticism of Sandy Bridge.










he is just saying the truth about intel to the customers, AMD has a better relation with the customers.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Riou*


Balla has very strong feelings about Sandy Bridge. He is very sensitive of any criticism of Sandy Bridge.










I can understand that and don't wish to hurt anybody's feelings nor have mine hurt either. I think SB could have been handled a lot better if Intel weren't so intent on squeezing every nickle and dime they can get out of their customers. That's just bad business and good for AMD. The people who make decisions over at Intel are stupid and self-defeating!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Let me try to help you understand why that happened.

Intel put a gpu inside their cpu die.

So for $184 you can get a cpu that is faster than the i5-750 (stock - $200) and a gpu to boot. Not too shabby if you ask me.

The problem comes because of the gpu, the bclk or fsb is now tied to everything. This means you can't overclock via the fsb anymore because the pci-e lanes are also tied to it and we all know going over 100 on them is bad.

To fix that problem and offer a product for the very small market known as overclockers they provided a unlocked "black edition" cpu for $225. Just a slight $20 increase over the original i5-750 which was a locked chip and required a decent motherboard to reach 4GHz with.

All of this only applies to 1155, the high end socket will not include a gpu on die, and those chips will not be limited to multiplier overclocking only.

This 1155 is a mainstream mom and pop socket, an i5-2500k @ 5GHz is anything but that however.

I have a thread called "My i5-2500k ($225) vs my 1090T ($230)" on the AMD forum, if you want to check it out I have benchmarks of both chips so you can see where I am coming from.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

I understand why there are those of us who like Intel hardware and feel they must apologize for Intel's bad behavior. However, I have been building my own PC's for a very long time and I cut my teeth on an $1500 IBM PS/2 Intel 486 SX running at 25 MHz, 128K RAM, 129 MB Maxtor HD with Windows 3.1 GUI shell running on top of DOS 5. If it weren't for competition Intel would still be selling their stuff for extremely high prices which most people couldn't afford which would hurt Intel's bottom line in lost sales. These are the same people today running things over at Intel and they're still idiots!


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


To fix that problem and offer a product for the very small market known as overclockers they provided a unlocked "black edition" cpu for $225. Just a slight $20 increase over the original i5-750 which was a locked chip and required a decent motherboard to reach 4GHz with.


I think this is important for us all to realize. After all, no one complains about AMD's Black Edition surecharges.

Intel did not charge an Extreme/FX level premium for the unlocked SB. If they did, then I would label them as an evil company. (yes, I realize they're evil with anti-competitive actions, but that's another story)


----------



## SlaveOnDope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;12025864*
> I think this is important for us all to realize. After all, no one complains about AMD's Black Edition surecharges.
> 
> Intel did not charge an Extreme/FX level premium for the unlocked SB. If they did, then I would label them as an evil company. (yes, I realize they're evil with anti-competitive actions, but that's another story)


Thats what they want you too think:sad-smile

Think for one moment:thinking:, what other cpu can you overclock with any significance other than a K edition with a P67 board:heyyou:


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;12025864*
> I think this is important for us all to realize. After all, no one complains about AMD's Black Edition surecharges.
> 
> Intel did not charge an Extreme/FX level premium for the unlocked SB. If they did, then I would label them as an evil company.


No one complains about Black Edition processors because you can still overclock the lower-end ones via BCLK. I suspect the $200 market is the most profitable for Intel. That's probably why i5 Sandy have at least some level of overclockability. Start looking at Core i3 and lower and there's no semblance of "kindness" from Intel. I reckon around $200-300 is the most people are willing to pay for a CPU. Above that, they get higher profit margins but not much demand. Below, they get higher demand but lower profit margins. Around $200 is the sweet spot so they have to make some concessions (e.g. limited overclocking, -K chips, etc) in order not to alienate that crowd.


----------



## sndstream

I dunno what this adds to the mix but I'm am average user who's had a pc since I was probably 12 or 13, Im now 37. Of those years, I've learned that post dx280 I was going to be an AMD buyer for the price point alone. I've done that for the last 20+ years. In those years I can't remember a time when Intel made a series of chips that has met the price/performance point like AMD has done like they have now done on the SB series. Throw into the mix I'm not rich and cannot or would not but the 980x. I have the 1090t, pimped out on 16gb ram 2k speed, on water, the whole 9 yards. I'm at 4.3 oc and that's pushing it as far as I can. I'm a realist and after looking at the numbers the 2500k just pounds anything AMD currently has into quiverring submission. Deal with it. Don't get mad or flame on Intel. AMD BD will most likely be a great platform, which I will gladly throw my money at. All this means to me is, I'm temporarily stopping investing in my AMD rig (Im not selling it, but Ive exhausted its performance unless I went vapochill), and picking up an Intel rig as right now they hold the torch. There's room for everyone to play and fanboy flaming is just etarded. I will say though I hope AMD will really skew the performance to cost ratio as right now for <$500 usd I can run 5ghz 24/7 stable so I hope BD will either run the same speeds a lot cheaper (as if thats possible) or runs a lot faster for the same price as SB is now. Over the last few days I've read posts by Balla and at first I thought he was a jackass just boasting about bench speeds and whatnot. But now I think I understand where he's coming from. He's run the AMD gear, it's not like he just came in out of left field. Bench for bench the SB is just the best for what it does.....right now....


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna*


No one complains about Black Edition processors because you can still overclock the lower-end ones via BCLK. I suspect the $200 market is the most profitable for Intel. That's probably why i5 Sandy have at least some level of overclockability. Start looking at Core i3 and lower and there's no semblance of "kindness" from Intel. I reckon around $200-300 is the most people are willing to pay for a CPU. Above that, they get higher profit margins but not much demand. Below, they get higher demand but lower profit margins. Around $200 is the sweet spot so they have to make some concessions (e.g. limited overclocking, -K chips, etc) in order not to alienate that crowd.


Since I'm no expert at SB, let me ask this then: are there any other ways to overclock, without using multiplier, and not totally mess up the system/bus stability?

If I understant things correctly, the only way to overclock non-K chips (significantly) would be to have unlocked multipliers. Which would essentially make them into K chips. And for Intel to give totally unlocked chips to all, well, that's asking a bit too much.

In the end though, Intel probably figure that 99% of population don't overclock. The enthusiasts that does overclock are very unlikely to buy an i3. So not much lost. BTW, atleast where I live, a 2500k is right around $200.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SlaveOnDope*


Thats what they want you too think









Think for one moment







, what other cpu can you overclock with any significance other than a K edition with a P67 board










To be fair though, your typical AMD Athlon II X2 and X4 are not exactly overclocking monsters either. At 3.6Ghz, I doubt they can even come close to an un-overclocked i3/i5 SB.

Difference is, of course, Intel puts an intentional cap on performance, while AMD puts and un-intentional cap. But to us consumers, does it really make a difference?


----------



## knoxy_14

did u just compare athlon to sandy bridge?


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;12032832*
> Since I'm no expert at SB, let me ask this then: are there any other ways to overclock, without using multiplier, and not totally mess up the system/bus stability?
> 
> If I understant things correctly, the only way to overclock non-K chips (significantly) would be to have unlocked multipliers. Which would essentially make them into K chips. And for Intel to give totally unlocked chips to all, well, that's asking a bit too much.
> 
> In the end though, Intel probably figure that 99% of population don't overclock. The enthusiasts that does overclock are very unlikely to buy an i3. So not much lost. BTW, atleast where I live, a 2500k is right around $200.


non-K versions can squeeze an extra +4 on multipliers also you can somehow raise the 100 bclock to 105 which is safe according to those who tested and confirmed it to be stable..

Intel has targeted segments on the consumer market not only concentrating on a single all-out market as what you are or seem to picture..non-K version for those who just want a puny raise on their chips..S versions for those who purposely use these chips on HTPC or low-cost solution platforms and the K versions for the Enthusiast and Extremist market..either way the K's are in affodable range if you hunger performance..still a reasonable explanation on Intel's part


----------



## purpleannex

Oh, i'm sorry, i seem to be in the wrong thread, i thought this was a Bulldozer blog for AMD to update us and answer questions about Bulldozer, but i seem to be in an Intel thread about Sandy Bridge, bye!


----------



## jprovido

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Oh, i'm sorry, i seem to be in the wrong thread, i thought this was a Bulldozer blog for AMD to update us and answer questions about Bulldozer, but i seem to be in an Intel thread about Sandy Bridge, bye!


seconded.

I was like, "yhay more bulldozer news!" then boom intel sandy bridge explodes on my face


----------



## oicw

Well, if only BD news can be posted, you can bet this thread will stay untouched till Q2. AMD is pretty darn tight lipped about BD, they'll tell us it's a central processing unit that runs on electricity, that's about it


----------



## 161029

I wish they would let something else leak. I'm bored. I'm dying for more information.


----------



## JF-AMD

We have let a lot go. Later in Q1 you'll see some more blog info, but bunchmarks, clock speeds and pricing always waits for launch. I would expect some server demos in Q2, probably before the client launch.


----------



## GenTarkin

I want leaked benchmarks by those crazy people that already have the chips =P come on... where are you bastards! LOL jk =P
I cant wait either....BD is so unique, its killing me to know more about it. Im also starting to understand the innards of a CPU more and more and researching what the heck everything does...simply because of BD ... it sparks my interest!

BD pwn all! April cant come fast enough grrr


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenTarkin;12045302*
> *April 1st to June 30th* cant come fast enough grrr


Corrected.

At this point, all we know is Q2









I sure hope it's T1Q2 (third 1 Q2) rather than T3Q2!


----------



## bobby2hotty

does anyone have any idea which month BD will come out?

and how many cores/threads it has?


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12044794*
> We have let a lot go. Later in Q1 you'll see some more blog info, but bunchmarks, clock speeds and pricing always waits for launch. I would expect some server demos in Q2, probably before the client launch.


The more you feed, the more we hunger.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobby2hotty;12049513*
> does anyone have any idea which month BD will come out?
> 
> and how many cores/threads it has?


I think April with 4, 6, or 8 cores/threads.


----------



## decimator

As much as we hate to admit it, JF-AMD is right. Those leaked Sandy Bridge benchmarks were just that -- leaked. And not by Intel either. Although I must say...AMD could probably benefit from some leaked benchmarks themselves...


----------



## oicw

Wel if JF is willing to UPS a couple engineering samples to me, I'll make sure it gets leaked alright









On a more serious note, Lonewolf, do you have a source (even semi accurate) showing April launch? 'cause so far, all we've been told is Q2.


----------



## 161029

Most of us hear rumors that bulldozer will be just as powerful or even more powerful than the current i7's.


----------



## JF-AMD

Q2 for client and Q3 for server is all that has been said.

There is tons of speculation but I would only trust official sources.


----------



## 161029

Man this sucks.


----------



## JF-AMD

I disagree, I think it is a great product. But I am biased.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Haha









Well played.

With AVX support added with SP1 on Windows 7 SB chips have seen double the performance in pure GFlops. Since Bulldozer also supports this instruction set - as well as some other ones... What is the benefit in increased FP calculations to the everyday user, and what other benefits does the change to 256 bit (2x126 on bulldozer - however can be combined correct?) and the AVX instruction set provide?


----------



## JF-AMD

I will go out on a limb and say that most client system users don't even know if their apps are FP-heavy, but somehow think that "256 is bigger."

Technical apps, workstation apps, complicated financial apps. Probably some others, but I am not a client guy so I don't know.

If you were really concerned about FP performance you'd be an AMD fan because we have had an edge for a long time there in terms of flops/dollar.

And you'd have chosen a six core phenom II over a 980X in a heartbeat.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yah, my old 1090T was getting 76 on DDR2 (while others were getting 80/82 on ddr3), but the best 980x we've seen around here got 100.

Clearly for $230 vs $1000+ thats a huge price vs performance ratio in AMD favor.

Can you explain the AVX Instruction set a little better for us, and what exactly it means to us the end user at home?

Does AVX only affect the FP calculations, or does it affect other things such as SSE 4.2? On the Intel side of things we've already seen the affects of the increased FP capabilities in raw tests such as LinX or IntelBurnTest. We were getting around 70 GFlops on 4 cores (at 5GHz lol not retail speed), however when SP1 came out with updated linpacks we've seen that shoot up drastically, I myself have reached 133 GFlops with just 4 cores.

What does any of this mean to the home end user though? It seems something more related to server work loads or I dare even say, gpu based workloads. Aside from the AVX instruction (which seems to again be started at server/business) there isn't a whole lot more being offered by either company in the way of performance advancement. Don't get me wrong, I know you guys will be quite a bit faster than you are now, but it seems we really aren't that far from were we were a few years ago. Instead of going up, we're going outward... Instead of faster core calculations we're getting more cores. And one of the biggest problems with that is the fact that most software today can't use more than 2, others up to 4, but for the average user x6 x8 is near pointless and offers no noticeable performance gain over their previous x2/x4 chips.

Everything seems to be geared towards using less power, but I still can't beam anyone up, and I'm not hugging any trees these days. Is the high end high performance desktop era ending, only to be replaced by slower.. less exciting products like the iPad?


----------



## GenTarkin

For the average home user, AVX simply put means nothing. Most people wont even use that feature, the feature will of course be implemented in apps whos purpose is dealing with heavy FPU calculations, like encoding, photoshop calcs(I think are fpu based) etc...

MOST consumers only care about how fast their perceivable speed of the dang internet is and how fast they can get their emails. And if the computer will keep the cursor moving consistently and blinking while typing out a letter in a word processor.

The reason for the change in focus is...like stated above, speed is pretty much where it needs to be for average joe, it was there a long time ago. The reason for spreading out, is because although there is the speed...people want to be able to do more at once on their PC.
This is where multi core setups come in handy.
Thats also why the market is focusing more and more on smaller more power effecient yet slower devices....because average joe has had their speed expectations met long ago. So sacrificing some raw computing power for mobility and smaller energy consumption envelopoes is where its headed.

Luckily for the average population, there is still much competition between AMD and Intel, which is why there is still a surge for faster / more capable processors...because their marketings are effective at telling people they need to do more, do it faster and do it now...and the population accepts this , buys and hence the R&D leads to better , faster products.

Now the one question I have about AVX is...MUST your OS support it before any of your apps can utilize it? Or must apps only be recompiled / optimized and they can take advantage of it??

I like the way is implimenting their AVX...in the event you have a 256bit AVX code...the "flex fp" will merge its 2 128bit units together to a single 256bit and simultaneously crunch out 2 halves of that instruction. But, when only legacy SSE code is being ran(cant believe its legacy already) the 2 FMACs will function independently being able to pull off similar IPC(I believe thats correct) as it could with AVX.

Intels AVX implementation is a little bit more wacky but essentially the kinda thing. Their FPU ports werent exactly widened to 256bit...but when it senses 256bit AVX code, it splits 128bit to the FP port and 128bit of it to the exec unit on same port. Whether or not this hampers some of the code running in the exec units when AVX is in use...Im not really clear on. But either way, its kinda a shared resource design as well.

For general FPU layout, I believe its right in saying Intel has 3 ports which can execute different types of FPU calculations simultaneously...whereas AMD's 2 FMAC pipes are more flexible, they can execute ANY type of FPU simultaneously.
Intel's can peek at 3 IPC FP while AMD's can peak at 2 IPC FP/sec.
Too bad AMD didnt enlist the help of their 128bit MMX SIMD pipes(how intel did) in the FPU cluster to assist w/ 256bit AVX code...then they would have the upper hand in FPU for sure!
AT LEAST, thats how I understand it =P Im still learning all this stuff so if anyone has some more correct insight, please explain =)


----------



## Jasonn20

first bulldozer bench.....????


----------



## purpleannex

I think i'm having a coronary from laughing so much.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12053490*
> I disagree, I think it is a great product. But I am biased.


No, I'm talking about the wait.


----------



## purpleannex

Really?!?


----------



## 06tb06

I love AMD and I think they have reasonably priced products and such but I recently read that the company has pushed back their Bulldozer CPU to be released sometime in the Summer of 2011. AMD's previous roadmap said it would be released sometime in April 2011 or so.

I mean c'mon, they have had a few years now to get the chip built and ready. Why release it this Summer? Why not just wait another year and release it in 2012? That away AMD has plenty of time to get things right.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:



Originally Posted by *06tb06*


I love AMD and I think they have reasonably priced products and such but I recently read that the company has pushed back their Bulldozer CPU to be released sometime in the Summer of 2011. AMD's previous roadmap said it would be released sometime in April 2011 or so.

I mean c'mon, they have had a few years now to get the chip built and ready. Why release it this Summer? Why not just wait another year and release it in 2012? That away AMD has plenty of time to get things right.


Because AMD needs to release the first update to Bulldozer in 2012 to keep pace with Ivy Bridge.

Also, the chips for us consumers are pretty much done at this point anyway from a design point of view. I think they're getting production set up and ready.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jasonn20*


first bulldozer bench.....????










Oh that's just plain mean.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *06tb06*


I recently read that the company has pushed back their Bulldozer CPU to be released sometime in the Summer of 2011. AMD's previous roadmap said it would be released sometime in April 2011 or so.


That article was not right.

We have said Q2 for client products since November of last year. Our CEO said "early summer." Summer begins in Q2.


----------



## 161029

It would have been nice if it came in April. It's earlier.


----------



## SystemTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jasonn20;12098621*
> first bulldozer bench.....????


OMW ROLF ROLF ROLF!!!!!!!.That is absolutly brilliant

ROFL!!!


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jasonn20;12098621*
> first bulldozer bench.....????


Wow, looks like Bulldozer is great at multi-tasking!

Must be courtesy of 8 cores. Works much better than Intel's hyper-threading:


----------



## TheDream

I'm jumping ship if AMD matches Sandy Bridge's performance.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SystemTech;12107971*
> OMW ROLF ROLF ROLF!!!!!!!.That is absolutly brilliant
> 
> ROFL!!!


Is that Afrikaans? It makes absolutely no sense. Google translate.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheDream*


I'm jumping ship if AMD matches Sandy Bridge's performance.


Traitorous cur. How dare you abandon your wonderful company and recently purchased SB setup. That ain't right man.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe*


Traitorous cur. How dare you abandon your wonderful company and recently purchased SB setup. That ain't right man.










Intel is not a wonderful company.


----------



## 161029




----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like how I am the fanboy because I've had a Regor 245, two 555's, a 965, and a 1090T all in the last several months from AMD. I spent a lot of money on AMD products and at the time of purchase I thought they were all ahead of Intel in the price > performance area.

My statement comes from the fact that 4 cores 4 threads is able to beat 6 cores 6 threads in even multi-tasking based applications, and the 4 core 4 thread chip is cheaper than the 1090T. With the updated instruction sets the difference could be very minor, or moderate at best. However we're still talking about 4 vs 6. And that comes back to the other side of the coin which is much more important to me, single thread performance. Its pretty well known by most everyone who has a x6 chip that most software doesn't utilize it and most games use 50% of those cores or less.

Thats a problem because at 100% core usage 6 is getting beat by 4 (albeit not by a lot), but when 6 becomes 3 and 4 becomes 3 the difference is much greater than it was before.

In the end as an everyday user all that matters is the single thread performance in relation to how many threads you can use. On my 1090T I rarely used every thread unless I was running a benchmark, because of this I "downgraded" to an x4 with much better single thread performance and the difference between the two has left me feeling "overpowered". I feel like I have a lot of extra room to play with, which is something I didn't feel with my 1090T despite the addition of two more cores.

The kicker was the price, the i5-2500k was $5 less than the 1090T which isn't a big deal, except it is to me because I've always been one for price/performance and in this single instance it's pretty clear to even AMD folks that Intel currently has the upper hand at this price range.

Which is my point really, AMD's flagship high end chips can't complete in price, nor can they compete in performance with Intels newest low end mainstream chips. I await bulldozer same as everyone else, I hope it delivers.


AMD focused on integer performance with the 1090T. Unfortunately, mainstream did not focus on using the so 20 GFLOPS performance benefit from the hexacore, nor coded for it. It would have been a massive different story if programers would start making universal multithreaded programs then focusing on whatever Intel has to offer. Farcry 2 is a prime example of how much faster PhII was compared to the i7 920 era. SB is a different story, and an awesome CPU.

Right now you are correct though. SB is just an awesome CPU once you overclock it and tweak it. You can grab well over 100 GFLOPS of performance at 4.7 GHz. Which is kinda odd, seeing that originally they were only producing 57 GFLOPS at launch. But non the less, amazing gaming performers.


----------



## Hydroz

I just wondering; will all the Bulldozer CPU's have 8 cores' or is there anyone that come with 4 or 6 cores ?


----------



## 161029

Companies always have different models so there will be possibly 2, 4, 6, and 8 cores. I'm not really sure about 2. That number has been around too long. Not enough power







.


----------



## PsychoKilla666

I think Bulldozer is 6 and 8 core

On another note, Intel cheats
Windows is built for HT
so Intel 4 core is 8 threads even tho it doesn't scale true
AMD gets no such boost
Let's hope Bulldozer can whoop ass in that department


----------



## 161029

I wish they had games for Linux. You suck Intel. I have to get Win 7 (possibly 8. I might just use Linux and then get Win 8 in 2012 which is the rumored release date). Wintel for the cheat.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PsychoKilla666*


I think Bulldozer is 6 and 8 core

On another note, Intel cheats
Windows is built for HT
so Intel 4 core is 8 threads even tho it doesn't scale true 
AMD gets no such boost
Let's hope Bulldozer can whoop ass in that department


How is that cheating? They invested in developing some technology and got Microsoft on board.

AMD did the same thing with x86-64. I actually like it; it provides incentives to do development in areas beyond just making clock speeds better.


----------



## Scorpia

w00t 50%


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scorpia*


w00t 50%











dont think this is real those are estimates it says the i7 950 is 1156 and twice as fast in gaming idk just doesnt look legit


----------



## Scorpia

who said something about i7 950 he also can be the i7 860. And don't look fake for me


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scorpia*


who said something about i7 950 he also can be the i7 860. And don't look fake for me


look on the right it says i7 950.......


----------



## Scorpia

woow, i don't saw that 







, okay it's fake :d


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scorpia*


woow, i don't saw that







, okay it's fake :d










its alright it took me a min to see the 1156 and i7 950 lol


----------



## Kvjavs

Could be legit. If not faster than as fast as. Either way it's just the beginning. Just like their previous architectures, they'll probably refine it for 5 years before making a new one from scratch.


----------



## Phoenixlight

I like the part at the bottom best "Confidential - NDA Required" xD


----------



## 161029

That definitely looks fake. Plus, I don't think they highlight that stuff. It's like they're trying to shove proof into their face and trying to show off. They would never do that because they're already better







.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight*


Intel is not a wonderful company.


Yeah, perhaps I went a bit overboard on that one.


----------



## sch010

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


That definitely looks fake. Plus, I don't think they highlight that stuff. It's like they're trying to shove proof into their face and trying to show off. They would never do that because they're already better







.


I dunno. It looks exactly like every other legit AMD PR slide from the last few years. Though the whole 1156 thing is fishy. I tend to think it's legit, but really it could go either way.


----------



## Ktulu

I'm really excited to see any am3+ mATX boards with SLI. The MSI 890GXM-G65 was really disappointing.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


I'm really excited to see any am3+ mATX boards with SLI. The MSI 890GXM-G65 was really disappointing.


There won't be any Nvidia support for SLI on any future AMD motherboards and if that changes for Bulldozer and 9xx series chipsets it would easily be the biggest computing news story of the year. If you want to run two or more Nvidia video cards on an AMD chipset mobo you'll have to hack it or get the hacked drivers.









Update: You know after thinking about how much Nvidia apparently hates Intel you'd think that they would have worked out the same deal with AMD they did with Intel chipset mobo's. Give manufacturers a choice to charge a small royalty to do SLI on AMD chipsets as well. There are a lot of people that would pay a little bit more to get SLI support out of the box on an AMD platform if Nvidia weren't being such pricks.


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe*


There won't be any Nvidia support for SLI on any future AMD motherboards and if that changes for Bulldozer and 9xx series chipsets it would easily be the biggest computing news story of the year. If you want to run two or more Nvidia video cards on an AMD chipset mobo you'll have to hack it or get the hacked drivers.









Update: You know after thinking about how much Nvidia apparently hates Intel you'd think that they would have worked out the same deal with AMD they did with Intel chipset mobo's. Give manufacturers a choice to charge a small royalty to do SLI on AMD chipsets as well. There are a lot of people that would pay a little bit more to get SLI support out of the box on an AMD platform if Nvidia weren't being such pricks.


Eww my bad, I say SLI when I mean xFire. Quad channel RAM drool.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


Eww my bad, I say SLI when I mean xFire. Quad channel RAM drool.


You know, RAM bandwidth is highly over rated. It's already been proven that triple channel memory has little effect in real world apps. Already been proven that RAM speed and latency have little effect in real world apps. Already been proven that overclocking your video card's core speed is far more effective than increasing memory speed. Quad channel's increased expense would be justified if it actually did something. Why do you think that Intel dropped triple channel after being proven that the extra cost did nothing for the X58 chipset mobo's performance. Dual channel will be with us for a very long time my friend. Do some reading up on the subject and you'll see what highly respected others have found to be true.


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


Eww my bad, I say SLI when I mean xFire. Quad channel RAM drool.


they arent going quad channel


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knoxy_14*


they arent going quad channel


I was talking about Interlagos. I wonder if it will feasible to pick up one of these enterprise chips. I have been saving for ages for a server chip.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ktulu;12133106*
> I was talking about Interlagos. I wonder if it will feasible to pick up one of these enterprise chips. I have been saving for ages for a server chip.


You are a wild man!







Good luck with that server!


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe;12147013*
> You are a wild man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that server!


Thanks dude! I am excited!

I am teaching abroad in Korea for a year. Since they are paying my room and board, if I play my cards right I will be coming back with some sweet mula. I definitely want to spend some of it on a killer WC setup for folding. I guess saving up for a down payment on a condo or something would be wise so I can have a place to put a beast like that. Cart before the horse, but I am sure I'll come to my senses.

It seems like the Bulldozer chips would excellent at folding. You could have each core running a client and they could independently work. Although I would be pulling out my hair if I had to configure 16 folding clients every time I turned around.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hydroz*


I just wondering; will all the Bulldozer CPU's have 8 cores' or is there anyone that come with 4 or 6 cores ?


4c 2c will come later. but iÂ´m curious what stock clockspeed there will be ..







(4-4.5GHz on duals/quads?)


----------



## 161029

Did you guys send out samples to motherboard companies for testing and motherboard production yet?


----------



## SystemTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;12155691*
> Did you guys send out samples to motherboard companies for testing and motherboard production yet?


Good question, Id be keen to know the answer.


----------



## purpleannex

Considering BD is due to be on shelves in only 3-5 months, and *everyone* will need a new board to run it, I would've thought it's inconceivable that mobo manufacturering partners haven't got samples.

Run through the checklist backwards and theres not much time left for 'getting it right'.

-Product in shops
-Product in distribution centres
-Product manufactured, QA, leaves factory
-Production lines set up
-Sample production runs/testing
-Product design

You would need at a minimum to have BD samples for the sample production and testing stage. Having worked in maufacturing at a supervisory level, dealing with QA and setting up new production lines, I can assure you all this stuff doesn't just happen overnight. The actual assembly process will be swift, but it's all the logistics, planning, design and testing in the background that takes time, and rightly so, because if they get it wrong, they can look forward to lots of rework through RMA's! Plus many products (not sure if this applies to mobos, but it did in my previous job) have to be approved by various standards authorities though out the world, who they themselves work to their own time frames, and won't hurry approving something else just because we want X-product.


----------



## 4Brand

Actually some rumours suggest that we'll see BD samples and motherboards like the CH V at Cebit (which is around 1 month away).

That'd be pretty cool.


----------



## pietro sk

iirc, first bd sample rumors were from autumn


----------



## RoddimusPrime

In the end it would just be nice to know they are doing it right on their own time, it will be released when it is done and done right, the manufacturers test and make the product, organizations can approve the boards, and it will hit consumers by April/May.


----------



## 161029

Didn't they already send out samples? There was a thread about that. I think it's dead now.


----------



## pietro sk

you desktop guys are fine, but opteron community must wait little longer :/


----------



## SXS

Its been asked a million times, but I and huge base of followers (lemmings) are holding off moving to the 'tock' SandyBridge, because we have faith that AMD have what it takes to finally pull one-over Intel, I mean, its been nearly 8 years of being second, what happened to the whey-hey glory days???? I sure miss them!

And heres hoping BD bulldozes the Intel boys so we can start the whole CPU tech battle all over again like the Athlon Thunderbird days!


----------



## pietro sk

Q2 -few months, and then you can experince it yourself


----------



## 161029

A little towards the off topic section but with the release of the GTX590 (I just read a news thread about it and it's a power hungry card: 3GB or onboard memory, 2xGF110 cores, and I think a 244 watt power consumption I think), aren't you guys worried? I don't really think anybody knows the specifications of the 6990 yet (or it's just me).


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;12196206*
> A little towards the off topic section but with the release of the GTX590 (I just read a news thread about it and it's a power hungry card: 3GB or onboard memory, 2xGF110 cores, and I think a 244 watt power consumption I think), aren't you guys worried? I don't really think anybody knows the specifications of the 6990 yet (or it's just me).


one article i saw about gtx560ti shows, that its better than expensive gtx models.
why ?
because although it has lower max FPS, but 560 has higher MIN FPS values.

sometimes 560 has better score than 580
*very interesting.

IMHO, 560Ti better value than higher models*


----------



## 161029

I swear ever since the 400 series, I'm expecting all of the *60 models to have the best value just like last year. Then when AMD's 7000 series comes, I can guess that it will have the same outcome of the 6850 and 6870 where they become the better value and then you all of a sudden have the new standard of graphics.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;12196206*
> A little towards the off topic section but with the release of the GTX590 (I just read a news thread about it and it's a power hungry card: 3GB or onboard memory, 2xGF110 cores, and I think a 244 watt power consumption I think), aren't you guys worried? I don't really think anybody knows the specifications of the 6990 yet (or it's just me).


OK.... Going even more off topic here but does the Northern/Southern Islands naming nomenclature bother anyone else? Or is it just because I'm a stickler for Geography?

Why do "Northern Islands" GPU's have names like Caicos, Turks, Barts, Cayman, and Antilles? While "Southern Islands" have names like Robson, Seymour, and Whistler-Blackcomb (all in/around Vancouver/West Coast by the way)?


----------



## Psykosis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12196374*
> OK.... Going even more off topic here but does the Northern/Southern Islands naming nomenclature bother anyone else? Or is it just because I'm a stickler for Geography?
> 
> Why do "Northern Islands" GPU's have names like Caicos, Turks, Barts, Cayman, and Antilles? While "Southern Islands" have names like Robson, Seymour, and Whistler-Blackcomb (all in/around Vancouver/West Coast by the way)?


Because they switched codenames halfway trough, I believe.


----------



## lonewolf371

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;12196263*
> I swear ever since the 400 series, I'm expecting all of the *60 models to have the best value just like last year. Then when AMD's 7000 series comes, I can guess that it will have the same outcome of the 6850 and 6870 where they become the better value and then you all of a sudden have the new standard of graphics.


The *60 models are the modern 8800 GT/9800 GT/GTS 250, great value.


----------



## neojjjk

can we expect triple core bulldozer cpu's with huge L3 cache ?


----------



## purpleannex

I can't imagine you'd get a BD that doesn't have cores in multiples of two, due to the architecture.


----------



## JF-AMD

I am not sure what client is doing. Servers are 8, 12 and 16 on Interlagos and 6 and 8 on Valencia.


----------



## Kia Kore

Do we have any estimates on when this will be out ? (BD)

Have we any ideas on how many cores and what speeds these will be running ?

Are there any AM3+ board specifications out yet ?

What speed will the memory run at ?


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *neojjjk*


can we expect triple core bulldozer cpu's with huge L3 cache ?


Already asked JF that a few pages ago about "binning" chips with bad cores to odd numbered cores and since he's a server guy he doesn't know. However taking an educated guess I don't think we'll see odd number core chips since the server chips are all even numbered, but then again server chips are probably held to a higher standard since they might serve mission critical applications so then you might not want to bin your server chips.

Only time will tell but I have a gut feeling that we won't see odd numbered core chips. Maybe binned chips like an X6 turning into an X4 but not an X6 turning into an X5. Can you imagine how hard it would be for Engineers to work with odd numbered chips when they have to think in "modules" and not "cores"?

NB: Consumer should only think about cores, nothing else (as AMD have been trying to get into our heads). Engineers/Programmers on the other hand probably have to consider cores and modules and to work with "3.5 modules" (or other "half modules") instead of whole number "modules" would probably be a nightmare.

@Kia: As has been stated multiple times, Consumer chips in Q2, Server chips in Q3. As for the other questions I have no clue but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't offer dual core chips (at least for BD) and instead went straight for x4, x6, and x8 chips. Remember BD is supposed to be for enthusiasts while Bobcat is marketed towards the "Apple, I just want it to work" consumers (I'm probably going to give my mom a Bobcat based netbook and outfit myself with a BD rig for number crunching).


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


NB: Consumer should only think about cores, nothing else (as AMD have been trying to get into our heads).


I think AMD (rightly) has been trying to get us to think about the cpu as a single package at a price point, and who cares how many cores are in it, it's the end performance vs price that matters. So for example if Intel want to sell a 4 core cpu at $300 and AMD want to sell an 8 core at $300 it's irelevent how many cores it has, any sane person doesn't buy "cores", they buy a cpu.


----------



## proximo

Unless you are heavy into virtualization in which case you buy as many fast cores as you can afford.

I bought my 1090 for exactly that reason. I run no less than 3 vmware virtual machines at all times on my Windows 7 box for software testing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12275873*
> ... any sane person doesn't buy "cores", they buy a cpu.


----------



## neojjjk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12275627*
> Already asked JF that a few pages ago about "binning" chips with bad cores to odd numbered cores and since he's a server guy he doesn't know. However taking an educated guess I don't think we'll see odd number core chips since the server chips are all even numbered, but then again server chips are probably held to a higher standard since they might serve mission critical applications so then you might not want to bin your server chips.
> 
> Only time will tell but I have a gut feeling that we won't see odd numbered core chips. Maybe binned chips like an X6 turning into an X4 but not an X6 turning into an X5. Can you imagine how hard it would be for Engineers to work with odd numbered chips when they have to think in "modules" and not "cores"?
> 
> NB: Consumer should only think about cores, nothing else (as AMD have been trying to get into our heads). Engineers/Programmers on the other hand probably have to consider cores and modules and to work with "3.5 modules" (or other "half modules") instead of whole number "modules" would probably be a nightmare.
> 
> @Kia: As has been stated multiple times, Consumer chips in Q2, Server chips in Q3. As for the other questions I have no clue but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't offer dual core chips (at least for BD) and instead went straight for x4, x6, and x8 chips. Remember BD is supposed to be for enthusiasts while Bobcat is marketed towards the "Apple, I just want it to work" consumers (I'm probably going to give my mom a Bobcat based netbook and outfit myself with a BD rig for number crunching).


roadmap shows x3 Liano chips with integrated graphics ..


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neojjjk;12277754*
> roadmap shows x3 Liano chips with integrated graphics ..


Well, it seems I've been corrected. Apparently they are planning on x3 chips but that still makes me wonder how the "modules" work.

I mean if you were dealing with even numbered cores then you'd have whole number modules (ie. 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 "modules"). Now that you're tossing in odd numbered cores into the mix then you're getting "half modules" (ie. 1, or 1.5, or 2, or 2.5, or 3, or 3.5, or 4 "modules") which seem like they would be a nightmare for programmers/engineers to deal with. This however is assuming that "modules" mean anything different/new to the people writing code for these chips.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *proximo*


Unless you are heavy into virtualization in which case you buy as many fast cores as you can afford.

I bought my 1090 for exactly that reason. I run no less than 3 vmware virtual machines at all times on my Windows 7 box for software testing.


That's not what I meant, if you had a hyperphetical cpu that could run as many vm's on a single core better than a 20 core cpu you'd buy the single core, right? Your not buying cores per se, your buying the performance you want at the price you want to pay.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *neojjjk*


roadmap shows x3 Liano chips with integrated graphics ..


Llano isn't bulldozer. So x3 Llano chips are not relevent.


----------



## proximo

No, I'm buying cores. Virtualization loves cores.

That hypothetical single core CPU you are talking about doesn't exist. If it did, it would cost a hell of a lot more than the 1090T which is a hell of a lot more than I'd care to pay.

If your workload is highly threaded, there is no substitute for core count. I buy as many as I can afford.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Your not buying cores per se, your buying the performance you want at the price you want to pay.


----------



## neojjjk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Well, it seems I've been corrected. Apparently they are planning on x3 chips but that still makes me wonder how the "modules" work.

I mean if you were dealing with even numbered cores then you'd have whole number modules (ie. 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 "modules"). Now that you're tossing in odd numbered cores into the mix then you're getting "half modules" (ie. 1, or 1.5, or 2, or 2.5, or 3, or 3.5, or 4 "modules") which seem like they would be a nightmare for programmers/engineers to deal with. This however is assuming that "modules" mean anything different/new to the people writing code for these chips.


does it mean that dual core is better than triple core?


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *neojjjk*


does it mean that dual core is better than triple core?


.... I don't know anymore. I'm just going to not worry about this until the middle of March when hopefully more info about BD comes out.

However normal logic would dictate that more cores = better. I was just saying that *if* odd numbered core chips were made that would mean engineers would have to deal with "half modules" (as we all know that 1 module = 2 cores). I don't know how modules work into the grand scheme of things since I'm not an EE, CompE, or a Fizzer but from what I know they tend to prefer whole discrete numbers. Plus then things wouldn't match up because lets say in the case of a tri core BD chip you would have 3x 128 bit FPU's 2 of them can "combine" into a 256 bit FPU but then you're left with a third 128 bit FPU that can't combine (so theoretically would be "half crippled"). In the case of a quad core chip you have 4x 128 bit FPU's that can "combine" into 2x 256 bit FPU's so you're all good.

NB: Don't take my word as gospel. I'm just an idiot end user like everyone else this is just what I make of the information available to me right now.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *proximo;12281934*
> No, I'm buying cores. Virtualization loves cores.
> 
> That hypothetical single core CPU you are talking about doesn't exist. If it did, it would cost a hell of a lot more than the 1090T which is a hell of a lot more than I'd care to pay.
> 
> If your workload is highly threaded, there is no substitute for core count. I buy as many as I can afford.


...er...that's why it's hyperthetical...

...nevermind


----------



## GenTarkin

Dont know if anyone here has seen this graph, I am not saying its concrete but it was posted over at amdzone sometime last week. I have to say, if its anywhere near true or reality then....BD is gonna bring down the house!
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...art=25#p198909

Of course, we dont know what clocks its at, Im guessing its the 8C chip, it would have to be. But the CPU's in that graph we do know about have accurate results.

If its true, the BD is faster per core than 980x and a tad slower per core than 2600k. Given we dont know clocks its kinda up in the air but either way...yeah...
Pretty freakin SWEET!


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenTarkin*


That looks awesome


----------



## GenTarkin

Yeah I just did some rough calculations using the 50% increase in performance for 33% more dies over thuban 1100t as my baseline.
Ended up calculating out that BD has roughly 12% increase in IPC when fully thread saturated, per core over thuban.
Given that, it would need a 36% increase in mhz from that point over thuban to pull of the score in the chart, which means the BD pictured requires to be running at least 4.488ghz (turbo or not).
Which I think could easily be the highend desktop part or a lower base clock chip like 4.25ghz with 250mhz turbo kicking in on all cores due to it not hitting the TDP ceiling.

If speculation is anywhere near correct...BD is gonna be one hell of a clocking BEAST!


----------



## purpleannex

All those calculations are great except for one small detail, you haven't got clue what your talking about!









Source


----------



## GenTarkin

Umm yes I do, I didnt know there in the beginning and Im basing the math off of the 50%/33% quoted a while back by AMD. Im not basing it off my ipc speculation, off the numbers.

If I got the IPC nomenclature incorrect or whatever, then I shall just say throughput I guess. Ugh picky...


----------



## JCPUser

As much as I am rooting for the bulldozer that slide has to be fake. Even though is it HT the 980x has 4 more threads than BD... whether the benchmark is heavily multi-threaded or not I don't see the BD winning by what -- nearly 70%. Furthermore, it is almost 3x phenom II, lol. That I believe when I see real benchies.


----------



## Spicy61

that passmark image has to be fake... 17,000 wow. that is *ridiculously high.*


----------



## JF-AMD

I have never seen a chart formatted like that at AMD.


----------



## Ktulu

I'm sure Bulldozer is going to have stellar performance, but I'm not going to believe any chart until it comes from an independent reviewer.


----------



## purpleannex

It came from this site, after reading that, you've got to believe everything written there.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


As much as I am rooting for the bulldozer that slide has to be fake. Even though is it HT the 980x has 4 more threads than BD... whether the benchmark is heavily multi-threaded or not I don't see the BD winning by what -- nearly 70%. Furthermore, it is almost 3x phenom II, lol. That I believe when I see real benchies.


The 980x along with the other CPU's shown there for comparison (except for the Bulldozer chip) do have correct values, you can see them here: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


----------



## SpeedNuggeT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have never seen a chart formatted like that at AMD.


Yup. Why can't we all wait until the thing comes out and then enjoy it? You should have much better things to do then to make up scores for CPUs that are still a while away.


----------



## Larky_the_mauler

I found this leaked benchmark.....


----------



## Asus11

I still dont think bulldozer will be better than the 980x.. even though i'd like it to be


----------



## purpleannex




----------



## GenTarkin

LOL from where, you or someone made that...just to smack the other benchmark I bet.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Larky_the_mauler*


I found this leaked benchmark..... 










What do you want? a medal?


----------



## pietro sk

look at the score >_>


----------



## CryWin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*












If this turns out to be true I will need the smile surgically removed from my face.

That being said, it looks way too good to be true.


----------



## goldcrow

Is it really that fast? Deep down I don't think it is, but if it's true then I found myself a worthy replacement for my Q6600 haha.
@CryWin,
I wanna shoot your avatar with a china lake.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

were did you find that benchmark at? Seems to good to be true, but.......


----------



## purpleannex

NDA


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12319672*
> NDA


What benchmark is it showing?


----------



## purpleannex

It's cinebench. But don't believe anything you see without a source.


----------



## FlanK3r

its fake, cause 8c Zambezi cant hit this score...Maybe its real for 2P server system with Valencia, but not for one 8C CPU....


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*


its fake, cause 8c Zambezi cant hit this score...Maybe its real for 2P server system with Valencia, but not for one 8C CPU....


You don't know that, it could be real for all you know.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I really don't want speculation or any guesses. I will wait until an official independent review site posts a review. Until then it isn't worth my time guessing as to whether something is real or not.


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight*


You don't know that, it could be real for all you know.


know, because I need only a bit logic







...I have some experinece with some PC systems (most of AMD CPUs, i7 980x, i7 2600k..) And never seen so big jump in rendering, as 2x more than i7 980x OC. Its real impossible. Think, score will be for Zambezi about 10-11 points at stock (i7 980x with 12 threads has 8.9b) and this will be great! More than 20 points is bull****, this score has not i7 980x under 5.7GHz under LN2! 2P Magny Cours has about 22-23points, so do u think, its real for 8 cores?


----------



## _GTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12275873*
> I think AMD (rightly) has been trying to get us to think about the cpu as a single package at a price point, and who cares how many cores are in it, it's the end performance vs price that matters. So for example if Intel want to sell a 4 core cpu at $300 and AMD want to sell an 8 core at $300 it's irelevent how many cores it has, any sane person doesn't buy "cores", they buy a cpu.


This is so close to being 100% accurate!

Replace
Quote:


> any sane person doesn't buy "cores", they buy a cpu.


with
Quote:


> any sane person doesn't buy "cores", they seek to buy the performance of a CPU.


However note that, even if a Single Core can outperform a 8 core CPU, the difference is Multitasking, which is something that is also sell-able!

Remember that most dual cores are 1/2 of the performance of a good Quad Core...

Let's just hope this 8 core is 2 x the performance of a quad core (w/o hyperthreading)...

If Zambezi = 2 X the Performance of the i5-750 I WILL BUY X OF THEM!!! Especially if it's priced at $300 or less (hopefully)..

Price really does matter, and if AMD offers this CPU at less than $300 Intel will have lost their crown, be locked into a price war and AMD would walk away a real winner, no doubt!


----------



## _GTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;12320794*
> I really don't want speculation or any guesses. I will wait until an official independent review site posts a review. Until then it isn't worth my time guessing as to whether something is real or not.


I would give almost anything to be one of those people bench testing a Zambezi to be able to post the results to overclock.net, no doubt...

I don't need a review site to tell me, just give me the chip, I'll tell you exactly how it stacks up against the competition!


----------



## _GTech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CryWin*


If this turns out to be true I will need the smile surgically removed from my face.

That being said, it looks way too good to be true.










Oh yeah! (You made me cheese.)









I've been ranting and raving about the Zambezi, but all the Intel fan bois are calling me an idiot, they think Zambezi is going to be a Fail... doubters... One even went as far as to say "If you are expecting AMD produce the best CPU, your in a for a sore disappointment, it will never happen."

Sure I don't have any hard core data to show them, but after carefully reading the blog, what Jeff has said in other post, and scrutinizing the Architect, I'm fairly confident we are in for a doozie!

I'm severely hoping this CPU will soon become THE CPU to have, and when that happens all those Intel fan bois are going to be migrating and fast...

That is, if it indeed performs as many of us Techs suspects (& hopes) it will...

If not, well thanks for trying AMD, see you later, if there is a later...

I suppose if they get super cheap they could still compete, but Sandy Bridge has a massive hand on the table (Quad Aces!)...

If AMD does pull out the royal flush, we will all be cheesing friend!


----------



## _GTech

I do have a question about Zambezi, in particular...

Is it going to be possible to put 2 of these 8 core CPUs on one Motherboard in the Desktop Market eventually??? (seems rather a mute point, but just curious)

Or is this not technically possible?


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r;12320876*
> know, because I need only a bit logic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I have some experinece with some PC systems (most of AMD CPUs, i7 980x, i7 2600k..) And never seen so big jump in rendering, as 2x more than i7 980x OC. Its real impossible. Think, score will be for Zambezi about 10-11 points at stock (i7 980x with 12 threads has 8.9b) and this will be great! More than 20 points is bull****, this score has not i7 980x under 5.7GHz under LN2! 2P Magny Cours has about 22-23points, so do u think, its real for 8 cores?


I don't know, it could be true if the architecture really is that much better.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_GTech;12321300*
> I do have a question about Zambezi, in particular...
> 
> Is it going to be possible to put 2 of these 8 core CPUs on one Motherboard in the Desktop Market eventually??? (seems rather a mute point, but just curious)
> 
> Or is this not technically possible?


John already said that there is not a big enough market for the client side to implement that. So it will stay with the server market.


----------



## CryWin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12319826*
> It's cinebench. But don't believe anything you see without a source.


So where did you get it?

The name and CPU frequency makes sense, but the score does not. Even at 4ghz Turbo.


----------



## FlanK3r

A bit thinking....Bulldozer (in desktop its Zambezi) can be about 20-25% better core on core. Some improvements are with memory bandwith+IMC. So, If we will be very positive, its overall about +30%.
- X6 1100T has in Cinebench R11 score 1.1p for 1core and 5.9p for all cores, efectivity is 5.36x
- AMD Zambezi +30% more than x6 1100T, its 1.43p for one core. Efectivity in multithreading is not 8x, but some about between 6.8-7.1x. So, in Cinebench R11.5 for 8 cores Zambezi at 3.3 GHz will be score between 9.75p - 10.15p.

*-some improvents will be with higher clocks and new turbocore 2, example we will se score about 11points in Cinebench R11.5* And this is still awesome! The highest in desktop! Gulftown with 12 threads has 8.89points at 3.33GHz+turbo.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CryWin;12314759*
> If this turns out to be true I will need the smile surgically removed from my face.
> 
> That being said, it looks way too good to be true.


its fake, that bar should be orange...
/////////////edit: BD is brand new arch, and its totally wrong if somebody will apply threading /effectivity numbers to BD from K10..

Fact is, perf. numbers are still unknown - like John said - scores at launch..
(Any early scores = fake like hell)
AMD is confident about performance, you dont need to worry about low scores, im sure


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r;12320876*
> know, because I need only a bit logic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I have some experinece with some PC systems (most of AMD CPUs, i7 980x, i7 2600k..) And never seen so big jump in rendering, as 2x more than i7 980x OC. Its real impossible. Think, score will be for Zambezi about 10-11 points at stock (i7 980x with 12 threads has 8.9b) and this will be great! More than 20 points is bull****, this score has not i7 980x under 5.7GHz under LN2!
> 
> 2P Magny Cours has about 22-23points, so do u think, its real for 8 cores?


4*12cores....
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4431723&postcount=150


----------



## FlanK3r

oh, right, it was more than 24 cores....So, now we see, 22points for 8C Zambezi is totaly unreal


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;12331727*
> its fake, that bar should be orange...
> /////////////edit: BD is brand new arch, and its totally wrong if somebody will apply threading /effectivity numbers to BD from K10..
> 
> Fact is, perf. numbers are still unknown - like John said - scores at launch..
> (Any early scores = fake like hell)
> AMD is confident about performance, you dont need to worry about low scores, im sure


It would only be orange if that was the last test run and whilst in the current opening of Cinebench.

Had the test been carried out, save results, cinebench closed, then reopened, the bar will be blue, try it


----------



## PanicProne

It's fake.

Desktop Bulldozer will never have that kind of performance.

*AMD themselves HAVE SAID that Zambezi will be up to 50% faster than Intel's quads.*

That should give you your answer.

Also: 32 core magny-cours scores 23 points in Cinebench. 32, NOT 8.


----------



## Vithren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PanicProne;12332701*
> *AMD themselves HAVE SAID that Zambezi will be up to 50% faster than Intel's quads.*


AMD never said such thing. The only thing they said was about expected throughput & that was about server chips, IIRC.
There is literally nothing said about client chips.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


It would only be orange if that was the last test run and whilst in the current opening of Cinebench.

Had the test been carried out, save results, cinebench closed, then reopened, the bar will be blue, try it










why somebody would do that ???

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...199254#p199150 here it is demystified


----------



## PanicProne

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


why somebody would do that ???

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...199254#p199150 here it is demystified










This.

purpleannex, you're a failure. Even the guys on AMDzone make fun of you.


----------



## purpleannex

@pietro sk: Your asking me why would someone close a program and re-open it? Do you leave every program open the whole time?









Read the bottom of the screen shot, what does it say about the orange...










If you alter the clocks it will change from orange to blue.

...besides, it's a real screen capture from Cinebench 11.5, no photoshopping or jiggerypokery...

...but i've never said the score was real...


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PanicProne;12335921*
> This.
> 
> purpleannex, you're a failure. Even the guys on AMDzone make fun of you.


I like this bit, if it's aimed at me
Quote:


> It's beyond me why they put their reputation on the line like that.


Reputation? PMSL, this is the internet, it's not real life!!!!


----------



## pietro sk

intel has "leaker" JCornel

last year s7e9h3n posted few MagnyCours photos.. but this year he is very quiet..


----------



## FlanK3r

NDA is NDA and AMD is smaller company, they have better controll with NDA


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*


NDA is NDA and AMD is smaller company, they have better controll with NDA










AMD's not a small company









Upholding an NDA is all about who you tell and how serious you are about the information.

NDA info is leaked by some companies a month in advance to gauge consumer thoughts and drum up some hype. It's not that uncommon.


----------



## purpleannex

AMD doesn't need to drum up any hype about BD judging by this forum. The waitings terrible.


----------



## andos

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-a-target.html

Orly?

And http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...the_Buyer.html


----------



## Asus11

its not looking good for amd.. just keeps getting bleaker and bleaker.. and with a new release of cpu with no info on it or benchmarks and plans on the way this could put them in a big hole


----------



## purpleannex

Did you actually bother reading any of this thread?


----------



## JF-AMD

Apparently you are a.) not reading my blog nor b.) not reading any of the forums.

We have put a ton of information out there, far more than we ever have on past architectures.

What we haven't released are benchmarks, clock speeds and price (which come at launch). This is standard for both AMD and, for the most part, Intel does the same thing.

And from where I sit, I think the word bleak shouldn't be used unless you are just trying to stir the pot.


----------



## fRingE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12407766*
> its not looking good for amd.. just keeps getting bleaker and bleaker.. and with a new release of cpu with no info on it or benchmarks and plans on the way this could put them in a big hole


lmao. I can't believe you just posted this lol.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


its not looking good for amd.. just keeps getting bleaker and bleaker.. and with a new release of cpu with no info on it or benchmarks and plans on the way this could put them in a big hole


only troll can write that


----------



## GenTarkin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


its not looking good for amd.. just keeps getting bleaker and bleaker.. and with a new release of cpu with no info on it or benchmarks and plans on the way this could put them in a big hole


LOL dude...seriously...
thats worse then the posts I make...

Thats, a new low! lol


----------



## Ktulu

Oi... Anyway - AMD isn't going anywhere. They have been competitive and an industry leader for years. Bulldozer will be sweet and even if it isn't leaps and bounds ahead of Intel. It will still be a competitive and value based option. AMD has always been keeping Intel on its toes because of innovation. AMD has vision and that is a bigger asset to a company than the size of it's revenue. Bulldozer will either be a great alternative to Intel, or it will totally change the direction of the industry.

I can't wait to melt faces with an Interlagos.


----------



## SystemTech

Quote:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-a-target.html

Orly?

And http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...the_Buyer.html


Rumors and more rumors, and so what if dell do buy amd, nothing will really change at amd, and dell will start to only use amd cpu's so i say whatever, if it happens, amd might get a good rep via dell, if it doesnt, BD will give them good rep anyways. so whatever, its not that critical.

oh and i dont know if i need to say this again, but your and ID10T:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


its not looking good for amd.. just keeps getting bleaker and bleaker.. and with a new release of cpu with no info on it or benchmarks and plans on the way this could put them in a big hole



Stupid intel troll, go back to your cave!!!


----------



## purpleannex

Aahhhh, don't be too hard on him, the kids got problems. 47°C idle temps on a i7-920 DO, with 91°C on load. The fan noise from his 2 sycthe s flex's and 1 sharkoon on his Noctua NH-D14 must be causing brain damage.


----------



## Phantom123

I hope AMD tells how many transistors and how big the die area of the 8 core bulldozer chip will be at Cebit.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SystemTech;12416053*
> *Stupid intel troll, go back to your cave!!!*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12418470*
> Aahhhh, don't be too hard on him, the kids got problems. 47°C idle temps on a i7-920 DO, with 91°C on load.
> *The fan noise* from his 2 sycthe s flex's and 1 sharkoon on his Noctua NH-D14 *must be causing brain damage*.


jokes like this always make my day


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12419046*
> I hope AMD tells how many transistors and how big the die area of the 8 core bulldozer chip will be at Cebit.


We won't.

Not sure why it matters except for people to argue back and forth. Die size and transistor counts don't matter much, performance, power consumption and price matter.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12426560*
> We won't.
> 
> Not sure why it matters except for people to argue back and forth. Die size and transistor counts don't matter much, performance, power consumption and price matter.


Well the die size and transistor count usually tie in to how much the chip cost to make (chips per wafer etc). Also bigger the die usually more heat and power that is needed. So it all ties itself in. That's why i want to know so badly


----------



## JF-AMD

Please draw a graph and chart out die size to actual customer price and tell me if there is a correlation. Cost and price are 2 different things and cost does not always drive price. The correlation is loose, at best.

As to power and heat, again, the correlation is not as great there. There are far better variables to look at. I can show you larger designs that run cooler than some small dies.


----------



## purpleannex

980x cost per die size.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12427719*
> Well the die size and transistor count usually tie in to how much the chip cost to make (chips per wafer etc). Also bigger the die usually more heat and power that is needed. So it all ties itself in. That's why i want to know so badly


even if John told you numbers, you hardly could compare them - there is nothing similar/close to it.
intel is using very different process - again out of luck here.

_BD octo die is slightly smaller than thuban hexa_


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;12436170*
> even if John told you numbers, you hardly could compare them - there is nothing similar/close to it.
> intel is using very different process - again out of luck here.
> 
> _BD octo die is slightly smaller than thuban hexa_


That's right. I forgot about they both use different processes. I know its smaller than thuban but was wondering by how much. In either case, it should still be in the same price range.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12436594*
> That's right. I forgot about they both use different processes. I know its smaller than thuban but was wondering by how much. In either case, it should still be in the same price range.


there are too many unknown (some of them are new) variables, hard to tell about prices

best thing would be, if prices stay close(same) to today amd cpu models ..

_I hope basic 16core variant will have same price like current 6168-Opteron_


----------



## Tweeky

All this Bulldozer talk and useless information is causing my *OLD* CPU brain damage!


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12436594*
> ... it should still be in the same price range.


That's only part of what the price reflects.

Sure you need to buy materials and process/manufacture them but you also have to consider other "value adding" activities. You need to pay for APS (Advanced Producer Services) for example, Legal, Marketing, Accounting, Engineering. All those are producer services that turn the tacit and learned knowledge into a product or at least "add value" to the product (not directly, but for example a Marketing team would promote the CPU's to server companies and computer shops and you need to make returns to pay your marketing team somehow or the obvious example of an Engineering team taking tacit and learned knowledge (from their post secondary educations) and turning that into a product, again you need to pay your engineers somehow and they obviously "add value" to the product by making it in the first place).

That said, I would pay $250-275 for an octa core BD at launch (that is, depending on the benchmarks and if it's as good as it's purported as being).


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12438189*
> That said, I would pay $250-275 for an octa core BD at launch (that is, depending on the benchmarks and if it's as good as it's purported as being).


$275 - £170, for a cpu (if it's as good as it's purported as being) that beats the 980x, both single and multi-threaded - easily.

Dream on.

You'll be lucky if you see change out of $800 with that sort of performance.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12438189*
> That's only part of what the price reflects.
> 
> Sure you need to buy materials and process/manufacture them but you also have to consider other "value adding" activities. You need to pay for APS (Advanced Producer Services) for example, Legal, Marketing, Accounting, Engineering. All those are producer services that turn the tacit and learned knowledge into a product or at least "add value" to the product (not directly, but for example a Marketing team would promote the CPU's to server companies and computer shops and you need to make returns to pay your marketing team somehow or the obvious example of an Engineering team taking tacit and learned knowledge (from their post secondary educations) and turning that into a product, again you need to pay your engineers somehow and they obviously "add value" to the product by making it in the first place).
> 
> That said, I would pay $250-275 for an octa core BD at launch (that is, depending on the benchmarks and if it's as good as it's purported as being).


And sombody has to pay for my 2012 Vanilla 150RLC fork this fall and a new 15mm thru-axle hub. It's not like forks are growing on trees kids


----------



## purpleannex

Would the 2012 Vanilla 150RLC be somethinthing like this? If so ~$1200 wouldn't be very much compared to wage of the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD, would it?









I'm not going to speculate how much your on, but if you took more in one year than I have in 21yrs (at work) I wouldn't be at all surprised.

So yeah, someones got to pay for those forks.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


And sombody has to pay for my 2012 Vanilla 150RLC fork this fall and a new 15mm thru-axle hub. It's not like forks are growing on trees kids










make basic16c part priced like 6168 , or say good bye to your new fork









_just kidding_


----------



## JF-AMD

We'll I am pretty sure I don't make as much as you think. And that fork is probably $800 USD. Bike parts are incredibly overpriced in the UK, especially Fox forks. But that is because they rock and are worth every penny.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We'll I am pretty sure I don't make as much as you think.


Snap! LOL

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


And that fork is probably $800 USD. Bike parts are incredibly overpriced in the UK, especially Fox forks. But that is because they rock and are worth every penny.


Not that i'm into bikes, but i'd never heard of Fox before, so I guess they're more a specialized bike over here.

Everythings overpriced here, I don't even wan't to go there, it makes me depressed thinking about, thinking about it.


----------



## JF-AMD

Fox doesn't make bikes, only suspension.

The fork fits on to one of these....










Yesterday was a tad muddy but a long solo ride is good for the soul.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We'll I am pretty sure I don't make as much as you think. And that fork is probably $800 USD. Bike parts are incredibly overpriced in the UK, especially Fox forks. But that is because they rock and are worth every penny.


i apologize for my brainfart

iÂ´ll never have such hi-tech bike like yours.







_unfortunately_


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12450177*
> Not that i'm into bikes, but i'd never heard of Fox before, so I guess they're more a specialized bike over here.


Have you ever heard of FOX racing? You have to have seen the logo before. They also do ATV and motocross.

@ pietro: You don't need a high tech bike, sure it's nicer but that's the beauty of it. All you need to do is pickup something that fits the requirements. So if you're riding in the city, anything will do but if you're riding XC you'll want some suspension, whether it's a hardtail with front suspension or full suspension (although with downhill you probably do want full suspension).

Granted I'm kind of a hypocrite with an ('01?) Brodie and a Marzocchi front end (but to be fair I bought it used). Still, if you buy a roadbike do you need a $3000 one made of carbon fibre or whatever new spaceage material they have out or is it OK to buy a used $300 one.

PS: "Lifecycles" is a great documentary/biking movie and I subscribe to the philosophy of riding hard and running your bike into the ground (take care of it, but it's just a bike and having fun should be of utmost importance and every bike will eventually break).


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12455559*
> Fox doesn't make bikes, only suspension.
> 
> The fork fits on to one of these....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday was a tad muddy but a long solo ride is good for the soul.


No mud-guards







?


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12455559*
> Fox doesn't make bikes, only suspension.
> 
> The fork fits on to one of these....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday was a tad muddy but a long solo ride is good for the soul.


I know what forks are! LOL







More into road bikes myself (on the seldom occasion that I ride). There aren't any mountains where I live.










..we've got plenty of mud though... how much do want?









I can appreciate the solo ride, went out running today for 3hrs, not as much soul searching as last Sunday though, that was 3hrs 45, I felt like death.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12456429*
> Have you ever heard of FOX racing? You have to have seen the logo before. They also do ATV and motocross.


No i'm UK born and bred, you don't hear of Fox over here, unless your really into the sport. I just looked at their site, all the contacts are California, it's like you have hershey (had to google that!), we have Cadbury's.


----------



## Asus11

didn't an american company called kraft buy cadburys though?







don't worry im from uk aswell


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


No i'm UK born and bred, you don't hear of Fox over here, unless your really into the sport. I just looked at their site, all the contacts are California, it's like you have hershey (had to google that!), we have Cadbury's.


But.... We have Cadbury in Canada..... as well as Hershey's









Here's something you won't find outside of Canada though, Vector cereal. Apparently it's only sold in Canada. I also miss "Motts Clamato", but I've figured out a way to get something that's pretty close to a "Caesar" it'll tide me over but "many a times it's imitated, but rarely duplicated".

Anyways, to get back onto the topic of BD and stop deviating to biking.... wen r benchez 4 da BD koming 0ut?









PS: @purpleannex: For the record I'm in East Kent at the moment.


----------



## Asus11

is bd going to be 50% faster than the amd x6?


----------



## pietro sk

... asphalt FTW


----------



## bmasq

lol amd


----------



## purpleannex

LOL [email protected]


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


didn't an american company called kraft buy cadburys though?







don't worry im from uk aswell


Yeah. Why would I worry about it? They'll probably start producing chocolate chip cheese, or chesse chip chocolate, either way, I don't care.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


But.... We have Cadbury in Canada..... as well as Hershey's









Here's something you won't find outside of Canada though, Vector cereal. Apparently it's only sold in Canada. I also miss "Motts Clamato", but I've figured out a way to get something that's pretty close to a "Caesar" it'll tide me over but "many a times it's imitated, but rarely duplicated".

Anyways, to get back onto the topic of BD and stop deviating to biking.... wen r benchez 4 da BD koming 0ut?









PS: @purpleannex: For the record I'm in East Kent at the moment.


I imagine you have Cadbury's in Canada because you were still part of the Empire when Cadbury's began, whilst the U.S. was long gone. I haven't heard of any of the other stuff in your post. You can find British food all over the place, there's expats in every corner of the globe, especially around the Med.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Die size and transistor counts don't matter much, performance, power consumption and price matter.



http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/a...and-fast/10010

Is that why AMD has such a small market share?


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


I haven't heard of any of the other stuff in your post. You can find British food all over the place, there's expats in every corner of the globe, especially around the Med.


I'm a Canadian Expat not British.

Also "Motts Clamato" is basically tomato juice and clam broth with spices and stuff (a portmanteau of "Clam" and "Tomato"). A "Caesar" is a mixed drink when you rim a glass with celery salt, put a shot of Vodka add a dash of Tabasco and Worcestershire sauce, a dash of pepper and your "Clamato" juice and serve with a stick of celery or asparagus).

Something I can make here however is Poutine ("chips" with cheese curds and gravy).

Also surprisingly, I haven't had a Full English Breakfast, Haggis, Black Pudding yet and I've been here for like 6 months now. Although I have eaten tripe (according to my friends that's considered "dog food", is that true?) and a blood sausage similar to black pudding.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmasq;12461515*
> lol amd


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12461544*
> LOL [email protected]


epic..















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;12465019*
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/amd-needs-to-grab-more-market-share-and-fast/10010
> 
> Is that why AMD has such a small market share?


aaah, look who we have here.. Mr.Kingsley-Hughes

I asked myself long time ago, why he doesnt have intel inside logo on his photo...


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12466017*
> I'm a Canadian Expat not British.
> 
> Also "Motts Clamato" is basically tomato juice and clam broth with spices and stuff (a portmanteau of "Clam" and "Tomato"). A "Caesar" is a mixed drink when you rim a glass with celery salt, put a shot of Vodka add a dash of Tabasco and Worcestershire sauce, a dash of pepper and your "Clamato" juice and serve with a stick of celery or asparagus).
> 
> Something I can make here however is Poutine ("chips" with cheese curds and gravy).
> 
> Also surprisingly, I haven't had a Full English Breakfast, Haggis, Black Pudding yet and I've been here for like 6 months now. Although I have eaten tripe (according to my friends that's considered "dog food", is that true?) and a blood sausage similar to black pudding.


Didn't think you were British, just saying we're everywhere!









"Motts Clamato" and the "Caesar", sound horrible to my English taste buds, but then i'm not very adventurous with food.

As for Haggis, Black Pudding (is a sauage made of dried blood) and tripe, i've been here 37yrs and i've never had them either. I'd try Haggis, but I wouldn't give tripe to a dog, do you know what it is? Anyway these aren't normal foods, they're the sort of thing some ones asks a foreigner to try to make them cringe knowing full well that no one here eats them either. Like frogs legs, snails, pie and mash, and jellied eels.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Didn't think you were British, just saying we're everywhere!










Ahhh sorry I guess I construed it the wrong way.

What about marmite? You guys eat that don't you? Surprisingly I actually tried it in my first week here. It's alright, but not something I'd go out of my way to get though.

I actually do know what haggis, black pudding and tripe are. I've had tripe (I know it's cow stomach) steamed with a bit of sauce/garnish and marinated tripe as well. My friends told me that's what you feed to dogs and it's disgusting that I eat it, but hey at least I'm not wasting any part of the cow. Also Black pudding, actually exists in some form in many cultures too, I know for sure that the Chinese and Koreans have versions of "blood sausage" which are apparently similar to black pudding.

For me, I'm willing to try everything at least once. I've eaten things like Chicken feet, bison, venison (deer), and Ostrich meat. Although I haven't tried balut yet (it's a Filipino delicacy, search it up on google but warning the picture/description are pretty graphic you have been warned).

Anyways, back on topic..... Here's a good question, what kind of real world (science/industry) performance improvements are we looking at in regards to the AVX instruction set included in the BD chips (assuming programs have been compiled properly to take advantage of such instructions)?


----------



## JF-AMD

The simple answer is that AVX-256 will net you no appreciable differnence from AVX-128 and no appreciable difference from 128-bit FPUs if you are not recompiling code.

Where you get the bit impact from recompiling is taking advantage of the FMA4 instructions.

Otherwise, the benefit is that we have 2X the 128-bit FPU capability of the competition.


----------



## Kauke

John,

I have a dream... Is there any chance that Dirk Meyer will be the one to launch Bulldozer?

I don't know how much he influenced the design, but from my point of view, he deserved that!


----------



## Ktulu

This thread has gotten ridiculous. See ya in a few months Mr. Fruehe


----------



## JCPUser

This is the BD blog thread right... somehow, I see a lot of the usual bickering and speculation in here









Anyway a new blog post is up (reachable through JF's sig) called "The Cool Kids". In there John links to three other blogs written by AMD engineers that are very interesting reads. The one about the new integer EX unit is especially good and debunks the idea I've seen many times around here that AMD is only adding more slow cores with BD and doesn't care about IPC. Also frequency is mentioned many times. I have no doubt BD will be a speed demon.









Give the three a read. All that is left to be seen is if this new inventive design efficiently translates to cold hard performance. Only a little over a month till 2Q ...


----------



## G-Line

Hi! I'm a nub. But at 60 pages, given such a relevant thread. I'd suggest trimming the fat a bit ah.

Or not.


----------



## purpleannex

"My girlfriend went to hawaii", "Honolulu?", "no, on-a-surfboard".


----------



## purpleannex

I *am*, the thread slayer!


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Bulldozer will not work in AM3 boards.


JF you said yourself that Bulldozer will not "work" in AM3 boards, but now there is good information from CeBIT which shows that is not the case and that you CAN just drop one into a current AM3 board (plus BIOS upgrade) and it'll be fine. Can you clarify this please? I would like to understand my upgrade path. Thanks.


----------



## raisethe3

This is what I am wondering as well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


JF you said yourself that Bulldozer will not "work" in AM3 boards, but now there is good information from CeBIT which shows that is not the case and that you CAN just drop one into a current AM3 board (plus BIOS upgrade) and it'll be fine. Can you clarify this please? I would like to understand my upgrade path. Thanks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


This is what I am wondering as well.


Those boards are going to be using the AM3+ Socket.

AM3 Socket has 1 less pin than the AM3+ Socket; that's why the CPU's won't drop in.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Those boards are going to be using the AM3+ Socket.

AM3 Socket has 1 less pin than the AM3+ Socket; that's why the CPU's won't drop in.


If there is a different pin number that would seal the deal making it impossible to just drop one into a current AM3 board. Tell that to the people celebrating in the news thread...

Anyway, I really really want to here a clear statement from AMD removing all confusion about Bulldozer sockets.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


If there is a different pin number that would seal the deal making it impossible to just drop one into a current AM3 board. Tell that to the people celebrating in the news thread...

Anyway, I really really want to here a clear statement from AMD removing all confusion about Bulldozer sockets.


Some AM3 Boards with the 8 Series chipset are going to feature AM3+ Sockets. So physically bulldozer will be able to drop in with a BIOS update.


----------



## raisethe3

So they means, they still have to buy a new motherboard anyways correct? I read comments like "Yes, I can keep my board!" which leads to confusion because the board already has an AM3 socket from the beginning unless mobo manufactures update it and re-sells it again.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Some AM3 Boards with the 8 Series chipset are going to feature AM3+ Sockets. So physically bulldozer will be able to drop in with a BIOS update.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


So they means, they still have to buy a new motherboard anyways correct? I read comments like "Yes, I can keep my board!" which leads to confusion because the board already has an AM3 socket from the beginning unless mobo manufactures update it and re-sells it again.


You'll need to buy a new board as yours is not one equipped with the AM3+ Socket.


----------



## JF-AMD

OK, here is all I know. When this all came up I asked the product manager if it was possible to put an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 board.

The answer was no.

There was no grey.

I believe that any data not coming from AMD should not be taken at face value.

Ask yourself this: Why, if there was somehow a way to make it work with AM3, would we not have said that a few months ago when we made the statement? Why would we take the heat from angry AM3 users if it would work? Think that one through for a minute.


----------



## JCPUser

Crystal clear. Thanks JF.


----------



## winginit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12564841*
> OK, here is all I know. When this all came up I asked the product manager if it was possible to put an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 board.
> 
> The answer was no.
> 
> There was no grey.
> 
> I believe that any data not coming from AMD should not be taken at face value.
> 
> Ask yourself this: Why, if there was somehow a way to make it work with AM3, would we not have said that a few months ago when we made the statement? Why would we take the heat from angry AM3 users if it would work? Think that one through for a minute.


Thank you, John.... I appreciate the fact that you're here giving some clarity to this....









There are people getting all worked up now due to speculation (which there's been plenty of) that has not been conclusively confirmed....


----------



## purpleannex

It seems pretty clear to me that these boards from MSI and Asrock that fit BD are simply AM3+ boards. That's why they have AM3+ clearly printed on them next to the socket. The only confusion is, people are assuming they are AM3 because they're retro fitting last gen chipsets. This does not make them AM3.


----------



## jazznaz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


It seems pretty clear to me that these boards from MSI and Asrock that fit BD are simply AM3+ boards. That's why they have AM3+ clearly printed on them next to the socket. The only confusion is, people are assuming they are AM3 because *they're retro fitting last gen chipsets*. This does not make them AM3.


Also it's probably confusing that they're using the old chipset as well.

Edit: Nevermind!


----------



## GenTarkin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jazznaz*


Also it's probably confusing that they're using the old chipset as well.


He already said that lol!


----------



## jazznaz

Touche.







It's been a long day!


----------



## raisethe3

Wow, that's pretty dead on clear. Thanks.

*prepares for upgrade*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12564841*
> OK, here is all I know. When this all came up I asked the product manager if it was possible to put an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 board.
> 
> The answer was no.
> 
> There was no grey.
> 
> I believe that any data not coming from AMD should not be taken at face value.
> 
> Ask yourself this: Why, if there was somehow a way to make it work with AM3, would we not have said that a few months ago when we made the statement? Why would we take the heat from angry AM3 users if it would work? Think that one through for a minute.


----------



## Kazumi

I really should keep up with the news on products like this. This really forces me to rethink my current Mobo upgrade choose drasticly..haha!


----------



## unexpectedly

I am among those who are very excited and can't wait to see how bulldozer does... I wanted to build a rig that could fold bigadv... Rather than jump on the sb train, i put together my sig rig from used parts which cost about the same as a 2600k.

I don't ever buy technology as it comes out, but bulldozer might pry open my wallet.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


OK, here is all I know. When this all came up I asked the product manager if it was possible to put an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 board.

The answer was no.

There was no grey.

I believe that any data not coming from AMD should not be taken at face value.

Ask yourself this: Why, if there was somehow a way to make it work with AM3, would we not have said that a few months ago when we made the statement? Why would we take the heat from angry AM3 users if it would work? Think that one through for a minute.


lol I just love that you actually had to post that









Any who, my money is still waiting on the release







How's JF doing?


----------



## JF-AMD

I am in taipei right now, just left beijing. After a 21 hour workday my wife decided to text me after only 4 hours of sleep. Ugh.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

I thought you couldn't have such a long workday. Anyways, any more information? Or, if samples are out yet?


----------



## JF-AMD

Samples have been out since the end of last year.


----------



## indus

Hello Jeff.

I have a simple question,and its not about benchmarks or performance.

how big is the grin on the faces of the AMD engineers regarding Bulldozer?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *indus;12589235*
> Hello Jeff.
> 
> I have a simple question,and its not about benchmarks or performance.
> 
> how big is the grin on the faces of the AMD engineers regarding Bulldozer?


AMD won't release *any* benchmarks. Even those related to the engineers' smiles.


----------



## lem18

Quote:



Originally Posted by *indus*


Hello *Jeff*.

I have a simple question,and its not about benchmarks or performance.

how big is the grin on the faces of the AMD engineers regarding Bulldozer?










JF stands for *John* Fruehe.

http://blogs.amd.com/work/author/jfruehe/

I know, too easy to say "Jeff" because of the "JF" part


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *indus*


Hello Jeff.

I have a simple question,and its not about benchmarks or performance.

how big is the grin on the faces of the AMD engineers regarding Bulldozer?










Judging from what's already been released to the public I would say their smiles are approximately 76.3 mm +/- .05 in horizontal length and about 7.3 mm +/- .05 in vertical height. We would have to use a pair of calipers to get more exact measurements but using some rough back of the envelope calculations I would say I'm pretty close to what their real smile size is. We would also have to establish a baseline smile size to compare the AMD engineers smiles against the general population but I would say it's probably about 2 standard deviations positive against the mean.

One more thing we need to consider is the loading and how much dead and live load and shear forces AMD engineers faces can take before we get too much load/tension and thus a smile failure but if the smiles stay within the limits there should be no problem.










EDIT: This is the reason why we can't have too much performance coming out of the BD chips. On one hand they need it to perform well but if it has the performance of over 9000 times Intels IB then their faces would be permanently stuck to smile, and we can't have that. Dear god why won't someone think of the children engineers.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *indus*


Hello Jeff.

I have a simple question,and its not about benchmarks or performance.

how big is the grin on the faces of the AMD engineers regarding Bulldozer?










i asked him few times similar question, but he wonÂ´t tell :-(


----------



## purpleannex

I imagine the BD engineers are sick of the sight of it, same as every job, it's ok when you start, then the monotony sinks in.


----------



## JF-AMD

Like being a beer tester. Seems like a great job that first week....


----------



## nukefission

Howmany months left till BD release?
and mobos?
ZOMG JF *dies*


----------



## amay200

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nukefission;12595227*
> Howmany months left till BD release?
> and mobos?
> ZOMG JF *dies*


are there any announcements coming about BD that you can actually tell us about - Launch date is not announced nor am i asking for ANY NDA stuff, but are there any conferences etc coming where AMD will be discussing BD?


----------



## detta

all i can say is i have heard and read way too much about bulldozer .
this chip had better smash anything intel has to offer otherwise back to intel i go .

my one problem with AMD stand on hyper threading is they say physical cores are better than virtual cores .

the problem is amd has a six core intel has a six core ,the six core intel smashes the amd in every single benchmark .so obviously intels
"hyper threading "is better.because amd doesn't make a chip to compete with current intel products . it seems AMD is always one step behind intel .

maybe if AMD incorporated some sort of hyper thread into thier chip it might be able to at least be on par with intel.

dont get me wrong i am an AMD fan but im sick of the taunts by intel fanboys about thier higher benchmark scores .

thousands and thousands have purchased the overpriced $1,000.00 + intel chips ,so why AMD thinks it wouldnt be a smart business plan to make an enthusiast chip with ultra raw power and price it accordingly just baffles me.

i have a 555 black edition that wont even play black ops when oc to 4.2 ghz
but yet intel core2 duo at 2.66 ghz can run it just fine ,thats the difference im talking about in power.

as a dual core my 555 be bottle necks badly and gets 30-90 fps .
as a quad my b55 be gets decent frames at 85-140 fps .

point is intels always seem to be better with thier hyper threading so why wont amd jump on the hyper thread ban wagon and get us a chip that kicks ass like intels ?

i could care less about servers or working on my pc i want utter kick ass computing for my games . just give me the ability to destroy my enemies in the games and make it stable.

sorry for the rant but i feel that amd and intel always have the same core count the dividing factor between the boys and men seem to be hyper-threading.

and no one really cares about power savings in an overclockers forum ,all we care about is the raw power. please AMD just give us more gigawatts.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;12597638*
> are there any announcements coming about BD that you can actually tell us about - Launch date is not announced nor am i asking for ANY NDA stuff, but are there any conferences etc coming where AMD will be discussing BD?


Not that I know of.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *amay200*


*are there any announcements coming about BD that you can actually tell us about* - Launch date is not announced nor am i asking for ANY NDA stuff, but are there any conferences etc coming where AMD will be discussing BD?


Not that I know of.


What about the fact that MSI and Asus are supposedly going to be showing off their 990FX Motherboards at CeBit this year?

In fact, MSI already showed theirs off in January and is now showing it off again, at CeBit, claiming that it is actually a socket AM3+ Board, running a 8xx Series North Bridge, that will support AM3+ Zambezi's with Bios updates at the sacrifice of some minor features.... an announcement which flies in AMD's face with their claims that AM3 chipsets can not support AM3+ Zambezi's...

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...-features.html

Also, Asus! There have already been repeated news articles stating that Asus is about to unveil their Crosshair V 990FX at Cebit any day now!

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ula-990fx.html

Granted, the initial question was about, will AMD be making any announcements, or discussing anything BD Related....

But, does AMD have anything to say, about _those motherboard announcements_ from MSI and Asus?


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *detta*


*i have a 555 black edition* *that wont even play black ops when oc to 4.2 ghz *
but yet intel core2 duo at 2.66 ghz can run it just fine ,thats the difference im talking about in power.


You're lying.


----------



## detta

lying? about what ? i have oc my PhenomII 555 black edition to 4.2 gig and still had major lagg and framerates were drooping low into the 40's when i was near shadows created by the glimer of the sun in black ops.

however i have seen core2duo series chips play the game rather nice ,granted it did have a few lagg spikes but the spikes were few and far between.

however as i unlock it to a quad it runs smooth even at stock clocks.

i will say that black ops is a seriously broken game but i have seen intel i7's at moderate clocks play seamlessly with no crashes.as well core2 duo chips.

so please elaborate on what i am lying about.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


What about the fact that MSI and Asus are supposedly going to be showing off their 990FX Motherboards at CeBit this year?

*In fact, MSI already showed theirs off in January and is now showing it off again, at CeBit, claiming that it is actually a socket AM3+ Board, running a 8xx Series North Bridge, that will support AM3+ Zambezi's with Bios updates at the sacrifice of some minor features.... an announcement which flies in AMD's face with their claims that AM3 chipsets can not support AM3+ Zambezi's... *

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...-features.html

Also, Asus! There have already been repeated news articles stating that Asus is about to unveil their Crosshair V 990FX at Cebit any day now!

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ula-990fx.html

Granted, the initial question was about, will AMD be making any announcements, or discussing anything BD Related....

*But, does AMD have anything to say, about those motherboard announcements from MSI and Asus?*


Nothing is my guess.

All AMD ever said was that bulldozer would not FIT in to an *AM3* socket since it is an AM3+ CPU. If a motherboard maker wants to slap an *AM3+* socket on a 800 series chipset board and then re-release it -- what does that have to do with AMD?


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *detta*


my one problem with AMD stand on hyper threading is they say physical cores are better than virtual cores .

the problem is amd has a six core intel has a six core ,the six core intel smashes the amd in every single benchmark .so obviously intels 
"hyper threading "is better.because amd doesn't make a chip to compete with current intel products . it seems AMD is always one step behind intel.

















You don't get it, do you? AMD has 6 cores vs Intel 6 core + HT (forgetting architectural clock for clock advantage for a minute), that's 6 threads vs 12 threads. AMD is saying if you have 12 cores vs 6 cores + HT, 12 threads vs 12 threads, then real cores are better, how is that hard to understand?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *detta*


all i can say is i have heard and read way too much about bulldozer .
this chip had better smash anything intel has to offer otherwise back to intel i go .


Bye, bye. I don't think it's your cpu's performance that Intel fanboys are laughing at when you write.


----------



## detta

first of all no need for your attitude in the forums .

i see that the mere mention of hyper treading seems to have pushed the buttons of purpleannex and Phoenixlight ,which is sad you get pissed off at something so mundane .

didn't mean to hurt your feelings but i think its you two that don't get it .

so let me ask since when has amd had core count advantage over intel for longer than a few months?

honestly have the two amd fans who have criticized me ever owned an i7?
have you ever had an i7 and amd pc sitting side by side overclocked to exact same clocks same memory ,and same graphics cards and benched them?

i have and the intel won every time even without the hyper threading turned on.
granted the triple channel memory is an advantage .

i do understand that hyperthreading is only good for about half maybe slightly more then half a physical cores worth of work ,but whats better 6 cores or 6 cores+ht ??? because unlike the 12 amd cores to the 6+6ht intel you spoke of its more like what i stated above 6 cores vs 6+ht.

and thats the way it is . realistically intel will not allow amd to have the core advantage .its just never gonna happen.


----------



## JCPUser

This is the bulldozer thread; nobody is discussing the current state of AMD CPUs.

The top model BD CPU will have 8 cores and its direct competitor will be Sandy Bridge which is 4core + HT. Thus 8 threads vs. 8 threads. Which part of purpleannex's point isn't valid?









As for this statement...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detta;12605638*
> so let me ask since when has amd had core count advantage over intel for longer than a few months?
> 
> ...
> 
> and thats the way it is . realistically intel will not allow amd to have the core advantage .its just never gonna happen.


Do you really think that a couple months after the BD release Intel will have a 8 core desktop CPU? I will take that bet. Ivy is in 2012 and LGA 2011 is for severs.

Plus, it is not really about more or less cores... *its about performance per mm^2 of die space.* Adding 4 more threads using AMD's module technology is a more efficient use of the die than HT.

That is why they chose it over HT.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detta;12605638*
> granted the triple channel memory is an advantage .
> 
> i do understand that hyperthreading is only good for about half maybe slightly more then half a physical cores worth of work ,but whats better 6 cores or 6 cores+ht ??? because unlike the 12 amd cores to the 6+6ht intel you spoke of its more like what i stated above 6 cores vs 6+ht.


First, I'm told that they did away with Triple Channel for the 1155 because in the 1366 the performance gains weren't that amazing or something. Granted this is hearsay but really if you think about it it's not really a mature technology yet and scalability may not be there. Just like a few years ago when Dual Channel didn't show much gains against Single Channel as reported by Toms but once larger "blocks" were required to be stored in the RAM (4MB "blocks") there were considerable gains, yes I know it's wikipedia but it's not like this is a university term paper or dissertation or something:
Quote:


> Tom's Hardware found little significant difference between single-channel and dual-channel configurations in synthetic and gaming benchmarks (using a "modern" system setup). In its tests, dual channel gave at best a 5% speed increase in memory-intensive tasks.[3] Another comparison by laptoplogic.com resulted in a similar conclusion for integrated graphics.[4] The test results published by Tom's Hardware had a discrete graphics comparison.
> 
> The difference can be far more significant in applications that manipulate large amounts of data in memory. A comparison by TechConnect Magazine demonstrated considerable gains for dual-channel in tasks using block sizes greater than 4 MB, and during stream processing by the CPU.[5][dead link]


I'm quite sure that 2 years from now Triple Channel will show it's true potential but for now Dual Channel rules if you're very cost conscious.

Second as for the core thing. I'm pretty sure that it's been taken out of context for both sides. In virtualization and server systems (ie. like you would find in a university network or a large company that uses virtualization), physical cores are what counts. I'm sure we can get John to shed some light on the server side of things and why physical cores are more important but for a consumer system I will admit that Intel has it in the bag pretty much beating any AMD offering out there in terms of performance and price.


----------



## detta

well i love those facts which were stated . keep them coming .

as far as the 3 channel memory goes i know a benchmark is synthetic but in max mem my amd rig vs hazed intel rig his scores were higher and his fathers i7 930 scores were verry nice but mainly due to the extra 2 gigs .

tests were run using same ram and same timings same clocks the triple chanel was better but also more expensive.

and thank you thats all i was trying to say about the cpu side of things . i wasnt trying to bash amd or hurt fanboys feelings .

i am a fan of raw power and who ever delivers the power.however with said my amd 555 be is powerful as a dual or a quad to an extent,but there is just some things it cant do and i blame software on that ,but more cores would help .

but as far as the coment that intel wont release an 8 core anytime soon i wouldn't bet on it,as bulldozer is being created ,i am sure intel is hard at work as well.

at any rate im keeping my fingers crossed for bulldozer to surpass my expectations,as im sure it will.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75;12600072*
> What about the fact that MSI and Asus are supposedly going to be showing off their 990FX Motherboards at CeBit this year?
> 
> In fact, MSI already showed theirs off in January and is now showing it off again, at CeBit, claiming that it is actually a socket AM3+ Board, running a 8xx Series North Bridge, that will support AM3+ Zambezi's with Bios updates at the sacrifice of some minor features.... an announcement which flies in AMD's face with their claims that AM3 chipsets can not support AM3+ Zambezi's...
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/953059-pcgh-de-cebit-2011-msi-features.html
> 
> Also, Asus! There have already been repeated news articles stating that Asus is about to unveil their Crosshair V 990FX at Cebit any day now!
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/943481-3dnews-asus-crosshair-v-formula-990fx.html
> 
> Granted, the initial question was about, will AMD be making any announcements, or discussing anything BD Related....
> 
> But, does AMD have anything to say, about _those motherboard announcements_ from MSI and Asus?


I have no idea. The point I was making is that you were not going to hear any groundbreaking info from AMD on Bulldozer at CeBIT. I know a lot of people hyped it up, but I did not. When the marketing guy says "don't get too excited about this" you have to believe him.

All along I have been saying that I was unaware of what was actually being done at CeBIT, but what I did know is that the folks in Germany would not be doing anything that did not have our support.

Sure, motherboard companies can make announcements, but I can't comment on those because a.) it is not my product and b.) I don't know about the product.

I am over in taipei this week. I did a press roundtable and couldn't even talk about a new HP server (SL335s based on AMD Opteron 4000) because, at that exact time, I could not verify that they had actually launched it, even though I knew they should have.

I have to be extremely careful when I talk about anyone else's products because sometimes I know too much and I don't want to screw up.


----------



## thestef

Any one knows when this new BD chip going on sale? was an official release date published somewhere?

I keep hearing different dates every few months, now I'm hearing April? is it beginning or end of April?


----------



## Chranny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestef;12608764*
> Any one knows when this new BD chip going on sale? was an official release date published somewhere?
> 
> I keep hearing different dates every few months, now I'm hearing April? is it beginning or end of April?


The only official thing that has been said is Q2.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:



Originally Posted by *detta*


lying? about what ?


Saying that playing Black Ops with an overclocked + unlocked 555 isn't possible.


----------



## thestef

Quote:



Originally Posted by *detta*


im from america purpleannex,but its you that dont get it i dont give two shakes of a lambs tail about your altered reality or perfect world scenario .

here in the real world every amd product i have purchased has been utterly brutally destroyed by intel products.

who cares about servers and workstations,im not trying to get folding points or support your wow game ,im trying to play the most modern first person shooters out there and so far my amd products arent delivering in the multi threaded department.

the fact is that black ops and battlefield bad company 2 use alot of cpu and so will the newer games coming out . i understand your concept and amd's stand on hyperthreading i have pounded that same point home many times .

my point was i simply want an amd chip that will score higher then intels in benchmarks. its that simple " AMD>intel =me being  "


I guess we'll see in Q2, but as far as your comments about Intel destroying AMD. I looked at some of Tomhardware charts and the AMD chips aren't scoring that much lower then most of the Intel chips (the affordable ones anyway's). Not sure were you get those comments about the "real world"...


----------



## GenTarkin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Oh FFS...


Actually, rumored now from some cebit news is it wont hit us till June =(
Which freakin sucks.

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...f=532&t=138433


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GenTarkin*


Actually, rumored now from some cebit news is it wont hit us till June =(
Which freakin sucks.

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...f=532&t=138433


That slide that everyone is referring to is old.

Quote:



Production Samples: Late Mar-11


Production samples have already been out since December 2010. As far as I see it, they are ahead of schedule.

According to their UPDATED roadmap, Initial production for Bulldozer is expected in April. There is no reason for them to delay launch 2.5 months from the start of production. AMD wants to release it as bad as we want to buy it.


----------



## detta

@ Phoenixlight,i think we had some wires crossed bro ,as a x2 it wont run ,as a x4 it runs but it also lags somewhat.

as a quad the 555 or b55 runs great with a few lag spikes,im not sure if the lagg is related to cpu or server or net ,but i have noticed if i clock my 555 up to 3.6 ghz it runs better . i need better cooling to run any higher ,temps are high as it is.

i never said i ran my chip as a quad @ 4.2 ,only as a x2...


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12612324*
> That slide that everyone is referring to is old.
> 
> Production samples have already been out since December 2010. As far as I see it, they are ahead of schedule.
> 
> According to their UPDATED roadmap, Initial production for Bulldozer is expected in April. There is no reason for them to delay launch 2.5 months from the start of production. AMD wants to release it as bad as we want to buy it.


They could of brought Sandy Bridge out in October if they wanted to. Then the question is, Where are the motherboards?

Im guessing the motherboards aren't ready based on none at CeBit. Its odd to not have any sample motherboards out yet.


----------



## MightyMission

come now gentlemen,its about bulldozer not squabbling.


----------



## unexpectedly

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/958079-leaked-fah-score-4-way-interlagos.html

drool


----------



## Optimus_Prime

wow


----------



## hobosrock696

Now I just need money to buy an 8p system... 128 cores of power


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hobosrock696*


Now I just need money to buy an 8p system... 128 cores of power










good luck with socket F 
(G34 is 4P max)


----------



## surfbumb

Quote:


> According to a report from Xbitlabs citing industry sources, AMD has finalized shipping schedules for its forthcoming Bulldozer and Llano APUs. As rumored, the company will abandon its Sempron, Athlon and Phenom processor brand names with newer products, and as such Bulldozer will become the high-end FX-series, while Llano will carry the A-Series moniker. The first should arrive in the week of June 20, followed by mainstream Llano parts in the week of July 4.
> 
> The initial lineup is expected to comprise eight models -- four eight-core FX8000 series chips, two six-core FX6000 series, and two quad-core FX4000 series CPUs. Unfortunately, their clocks and prices have not been revealed but AMD has previously claimed that Bulldozer will offer around a 50% performance boost over its existing Phenom II line.


http://www.techspot.com/news/42720-report-amd-sets-shipment-dates-for-llano-and-bulldozer.html


----------



## hobosrock696

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;12652411*
> good luck with socket F
> (G34 is 4P max)


NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!








The meaning of life is lost... at least for the next generation of cpus.


----------



## SystemTech

Oh my word, 20th June. I cannot wait. AARRGGGGHH Hurry up


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Please let it be a fake... June.......20 OMG NOOOOOOO i want April or May ...


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hobosrock696;12661229*
> NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The meaning of life is lost... at least for the next generation of cpus.


today you can use 4p mobo with 12c cpus (48cores total), with bd 16c- 64cores..








you think it´s not enough ?


----------



## DjiXas

John, can you comment on release date?

Even give us hints, lets say: when should we expect to see more Bulldozer info next time, at what show?

Or better yet, show up benchmarks, tell us pricing, release date and this will be OCN and AMD little secret. I am sure that not a single person in the community would ever share this info with his friends.


----------



## Asmodean

Whooa /drool?


----------



## hobosrock696

Well... if price wasnt an obstacle then yes but otherwise NOOOO!!!! Now I just have to convince Bill Gates finding aliens is very important.

EDIT:
Above is directed at Pietro


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DjiXas;12667427*
> John, can you comment on release date?
> 
> Even give us hints, lets say: when should we expect to see more Bulldozer info next time, at what show?
> 
> Or better yet, show up benchmarks, tell us pricing, release date and this will be OCN and AMD little secret. I am sure that not a single person in the community would ever share this info with his friends.


You already know the answer to those questions.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12674014*
> You already know the answer to those questions.


And they answers are?


----------



## Chranny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4;12674071*
> And they answers are?


No comments.


----------



## hobosrock696

Aha the only problem is that if he gave us benchmarks, whether they were good or bad a lot of people would have brown pants from chipzilla fear or from excitement.


----------



## SystemTech

^^haha, lol
good one.
Seriously, we wont really see much literally until launch. Thats the way they want it and it will stay that way so the sooner we all realize this and just chill, the better. Sure there might be the odd linked bench, but still, its only going to be unofficial and will be something someone just typed up or edited. No point in pushing poor JF as his hands are tied. he cannot share anything even if he wanted to. We dont even know that he has seen full on benchmarks.


----------



## purpleannex

Yes. But then what was the point of creating the Bulldozer blog if JF can't actually tell us anything? If it wasn't to create fervor, than I don't know what it is.


----------



## bobsmith123

i think AMD are missing a trick, by not releasing anything, they are creating even more expectation, if they dont beat sandybridge they are going to look bad....very bad, if they know its not going to beat sb they should release details now with a LOWER price tag that way people wont be as disappointed than if they wait till june its released and its not as good. on the otherside if they know its going to beat SB they should release little bits of info to create more expectation, a lot of people are holding out till june, me included, but i am going to be extremely dissapointed if they have made there consumers wait all that time for it to not even beat a 6 month old intel processor. What i seriously hope they don't do is beat SB AND hike the price of it massively, im hoping they look at the bigger picture hopefully beat SB and have a very reasonable price to go with it, they are much more likely to get repeat custom that way, rather than as soon as they have best performance screwing over there customers and hiking prices.


----------



## Lampen

All speculation aside it would be quite nice to see some sort of new official information. Been quite a while since anything new has appeared on the blogs.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Yes. But then what was the point of creating the Bulldozer blog if JF can't actually tell us anything? If it wasn't to create fervor, than I don't know what it is.


I have told you all so much about the architecture already, more than we normally share.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Yes. But then what was the point of creating the Bulldozer blog if JF can't actually tell us anything? If it wasn't to create fervor, than I don't know what it is.


Learn to respect what they share with you.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

JF has already done the best he can do so don't u come and say he keeps info because he wants.He cant because some thing called NDA witch could cost him his job. I'm sure that in time we will get what we want just be patient like all of us.


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


Please let it be a fake... June.......20 OMG NOOOOOOO i want April or May ...


this is not launch date







...only possible aviability for all, if will be lucky, find it a bit earlier.


----------



## narmour

June isn't too bad. I got time to save up to buy a sweet AM3+ mobo and one of the top Bulldozer chips. WOOSH!


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DjiXas;12682750*
> Learn to respect what they share with you.


What a strange thing to write. AMD's a business, what's there to respect? They want our money, they lay out their wares, we make a choice. I don't make a pilgrimage here to OCN to hear the great words of the guru, I simply come here to see what's new.

When I said whats the point of the blog, I really meant the thread on here, not the official AMD one, that's fair enough, just an info page on AMD's site.


----------



## hobosrock696

I really don't want it to be so but the lack of a slightly more exact launch date (range of 2-3 months) and all this other stuff is making me think it wont be a show stopper. However we should also take into account the high end stuff is for servers and the blog is geared toward large business customers and so they might not leak benches? I don't know I'm trying to make sense of this but it just seems to me that server customers don't get as excited as enthusiasts about extremely high performance. They get excited about performace/watt or per $. There is something in the blog that compares it to the current server processor performance... You could pull some vague numbers out of there.


----------



## indus

So where is the desktop PR guy ? Iam sure most users here are desktop processor fans.Seems like JF-AMD is the wrong guy in all the right places.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hobosrock696;12687062*
> I really don't want it to be so but the lack of a slightly more exact launch date (range of 2-3 months) and all this other stuff is making me think it wont be a show stopper.


maybe the reason why its taking so long is that amd wants to make sure this is something that will perform better and be more power efficient than what intel has to offer... either that or it just plain sucks, and they are afraid of the embarrassment. just wait till whenever they finally decide to release it. then we'll see.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *indus*


So where is the desktop PR guy ? Iam sure most users here are desktop processor fans.Seems like JF-AMD is the wrong guy in all the right places.


we at amdzone asked few times, if amd desktop guy can visit us for some debates but unfortunately it didnt happen.

anyway, i appreciate input from John, without him we lack some infos.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *~kRon1k~*


maybe the reason why its taking so long is that amd wants to make sure this is something that will perform better and be more power efficient than what intel has to offer... either that or it just plain sucks, and they are afraid of the embarrassment. just wait till whenever they finally decide to release it. then we'll see.










It is taking as long as it takes.

Last year we said 2011. Then we said Q2 for client, Q3 for server. That continues to be the timeframe.

People are getting too impatient and thinking that there is some behind the scenes thing going on. The reality is that things continue to run on the same schedules.

We are following the exact same process as we always do. And actually saying more about the processor than we normally do. We never release the data you are all demanding prior to launch. Why should this be any different?


----------



## purpleannex

It's like telling a three year old that it will be christmas soon on January 1st, they'll ask you everyday if it's christmas yet, no matter how many times you say wait. It would've been easier for users if they only heard about the new product 1 month before, you'd still have the fervor of expectation, but without the 2 year build up and immense dissapointment if it's only average. With a 1 month build up people would soon forget its crap. As it is, it better be the dogs or AMD will never live it down.


----------



## GenTarkin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12691738*
> It's like telling a three year old that it will be christmas soon on January 1st, they'll ask you everyday if it's christmas yet, no matter how many times you say wait. It would've been easier for users if they only heard about the new product 1 month before, you'd still have the fervor of expectation, but without the 2 year build up and immense dissapointment if it's only average. With a 1 month build up people would soon forget its crap. As it is, it better be the dogs or AMD will never live it down.


LOL, if they would have waited a month before AMD would have continued to lose marketshare due to "no new showings from AMD camp"
People would get all their intel upgrades and new intel PC's in the meantime and by the time BD came out, it would have been too late cuz the noone knew about it early enough =P


----------



## thestef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~kRon1k~;12688913*
> maybe the reason why its taking so long is that amd wants to make sure this is something that will perform better and be more power efficient than what intel has to offer... either that or it just plain sucks, and they are afraid of the embarrassment. just wait till whenever they finally decide to release it. then we'll see.


You know, I honnestly think the chip is already being produced by AMD and is being stock in some warehouse. AMD is probably just liquidating their current stock before releasing their new CPU. I think most company's will think of $$$$$ way before any impression they leave on a small group of individual's, called "CPU entusiast".

Regardless of all this, if June if the actual release date of this new CPU, it will just gives me more time to finish my basement, install a home entertainment center and wait for this 'hopefully' amazing CPU in order to build my dream AMD/ATI system and then lock myself in the basement until the end of the world arrives in 2012.

The other alternative is that I loose patience and just buy a 6 core Phenom II CPU... regardless the prices just keep droping every week.

Man the bacon smells good in my house!!! and the beer tastes even better.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestef;12697192*
> Regardless of all this, if June if the actual release date of this new CPU, it will just gives me more time to finish my basement, install a home entertainment center and wait for this 'hopefully' amazing CPU in order to build my dream AMD/ATI system and then lock myself in the basement until the end of the world arrives in 2012.


Lol.... I might end up using my next rig (BD or if I can't acquire enough currency, a Llano) as a "space heater" for my room/hallway or basement. It's likely going to be running scientific projects 16 hours a day, when I'm not using the rig for work or gaming.

I've got it pretty figured out, crunch numbers and use the waste heat to heat up the basement/room/house saving me a bit of money on heating but being neutral from the electricity usage (except I can feel slightly better because as a by product of the "heating" I'm advancing science).


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenTarkin;12697162*
> LOL, if they would have waited a month before AMD would have continued to lose marketshare due to "no new showings from AMD camp"
> People would get all their intel upgrades and new intel PC's in the meantime and by the time BD came out, it would have been too late cuz the noone knew about it early enough =P


Read more threads/posts, it seems this is already happening, people on here are fed up waiting for BD after seeing what SB can do.


----------



## redalert

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12698155*
> Read more threads/posts, it seems this is already happening, people on here are fed up waiting for BD after seeing what SB can do.


I have noticed this also. I plan on upgrading to either Bulldozer or Sandybridge dont feel like waiting for Ivybridge. I wanna see what BD can do in multithread apps in particular video encoding if the 6 and 8 core BD can beat the i7 2600k at video encoding AMD has my money. JF-AMD can only say so much otherwise he might be looking for a new job if he says too much.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Well, it's official..just got my study for the AMD FX X8 8-Core Processor box art. So it looks like that's the naming scheme.

Honestly, I would love a "Phenom" or "Athlon" in front of it.

JF: I noticed that all the box arts were white, black, and red for the X8 and white yellow and orange for the X4...is AMD retiring the green color?

AMD FX X4 4-Core Processor

AMD FX X6 6-Core Processor

I dunno...I really miss the "Athlon" or "Phenom" being in there...


----------



## hobosrock696

That box art isn't real... is it? Also if AMD strictly told me it was coming out on January 1st I would check online every day for a leak but I sure wouldn't ask when its coming out again. Then again... we all hate delays (even of a day or two) more than we hate waiting for a concrete date to expect it on. I'm sure BD will have something it will be better at than SB and one of the things will be a better looking box.

AMD:1
Intel:0


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hobosrock696;12700286*
> That box art isn't real... is it? Also if AMD strictly told me it was coming out on January 1st I would check online every day for a leak but I sure wouldn't ask when its coming out again. Then again... we all hate delays (even of a day or two) more than we hate waiting for a concrete date to expect it on. I'm sure BD will have something it will be better at than SB and one of the things will be a better looking box.
> 
> AMD:1
> Intel:0


Well...here's the deal..the company has decided between x amount of arts and so they put a study up to see how their customers would feel about them. So technically speaking, they are "real" in terms that one of those will be on the box for the processors. The same way in which the AMD Vision stickers I looked at for them were chosen (and they didn't choose the one I liked which sucked).


----------



## hobosrock696

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX;12700304*
> Well...here's the deal..the company has decided between x amount of arts and so they put a study up to see how their customers would feel about them. So technically speaking, they are "real" in terms that one of those will be on the box for the processors. The same way in which the AMD Vision stickers I looked at for them were chosen (and they didn't choose the one I liked which sucked).


Ahhhh I see... thank you nice little thing to know
+rep


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Is the box art on the web any where?


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4*


Is the box art on the web any where?


No. I didn't screenshot them either for fear that it would violate some policy somewhere in their terms of service or some crap. But they are waaaaaayyyy different than the current boxes and don't look like any boxes of the past either.


----------



## jackuto

i guess there will be no new nforce chipset for the bulldozer right?


----------



## hokk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4;12700337*
> Is the box art on the web any where?


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

I like the new box design. How did you find those photos?


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jackuto*


i guess there will be no new nforce chipset for the bulldozer right?


That depends on if you guys who are AMD users who buy nVidia chipsets can convince nVidia to re-open that division. Who knows though...they haven't said anything about it though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4*


I like the new box design. How did you find those photos?


My guess is he screenshot the study page and just cropped it. Yuppers...those are the FX8 box arts but the FX4 is the same except instead of red and black, it's yellow and orange. Those were the only two choices available so I dunno if they are going to add more and do another study like they did with the AMD Vision stickers but here's hoping we get some green in there somewhere.


----------



## hokk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX;12701153*
> 
> My guess is he screenshot the study page and just cropped it. Yuppers...those are the FX8 box arts but the FX4 is the same except instead of red and black, it's yellow and orange. Those were the only two choices available so I dunno if they are going to add more and do another study like they did with the AMD Vision stickers but here's hoping we get some green in there somewhere.


Just found them on google image search tbh


----------



## DjiXas

First one reminds me of Firefox.

I'd love something like this


----------



## el gappo

I think they should all come packaged in a Tonka Toy Bulldozer


----------



## MrAlex




----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrAlex*












lga?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


comon guys bulldozer is never coming out.. give up hahaha










/facepalm

Quote:



comon guys *haswell* is never coming out.. give up hahaha










how about this ?


----------



## Amor

TBH I'm not actually a fan of black. It's just too overused IMO. When I get my next rig I'm going to spray paint the case and maybe put some contemporary airbrush designs on it.

Not a fan of the White/Red either but it's pretty good IMO. I would really have tried to go for a White/Green (or White/Blue but then those are Intel's colours).


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


lga?










this exactly ... looks like LGA775 on photo


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12702303*
> TBH I'm not actually a fan of black. It's just too overused IMO. When I get my next rig I'm going to spray paint the case and maybe put some contemporary airbrush designs on it.
> 
> Not a fan of the White/Red either but it's pretty good IMO. I would really have tried to go for a White/Green (or White/Blue but then those are Intel's colours).


That's what I was thinking...white, green and black. I'm okay with that







Either way, I'll buy it but still


----------



## hobosrock696

Forget the cpu... AMD could you please send me some engineering samples of your boxes?


----------



## -iceblade^

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12691379*
> It is taking as long as it takes.
> 
> Last year we said 2011. Then we said Q2 for client, Q3 for server. That continues to be the timeframe.
> 
> People are getting too impatient and thinking that there is some behind the scenes thing going on. The reality is that things continue to run on the same schedules.
> 
> We are following the exact same process as we always do. And actually saying more about the processor than we normally do. We never release the data you are all demanding prior to launch. *Why should this be any different*?


because people are impatient and want everything instantly. it's annoying isn't it? good things come to those who wait.

i hope BD does to Intel what AMD has been doing to nVidia as of late with graphics cards (3870, 4870, 5870)


----------



## httuner

Bulldozer is never gonna come out anytime soon.. AMD is pissing me off so I went Intel on their ass! haha, I just couldn't wait anymore so I hop on the Sandybridge bandwagon.. and to my horror I gotz a funny feeling I'm going to regret it with my shiny new i72600k (Its the first processor that I believe Intel deserve an A+ on considering price per performance) & its the 2nd Intel Processor I've ever own and probably will be the last.

I know for sure once Bulldozer comes out, I'm going to build a bulldozer gaming machine(even if it does under perform the sandybridge - thats just how much I like AMD) AMD has done me good in the past and saved me hundreds of dollars and kept me productive with my computer work saving me $$$$$ =] ... so like everyone else, I'm also waiting for the Bulldozer


----------



## Phantom123

Is it just me or what? Now that we see more info about Bulldozer and know it's coming out, the less anxious I am to buy one lol.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-iceblade^;12715703*
> because people are impatient and want everything instantly. it's annoying isn't it? good things come to those who wait.
> 
> i hope BD does to Intel what AMD has been doing to nVidia as of late with graphics cards (3870, 4870, 5870)


Maybe not 3870 per se...it was an attempt to catchup but it still majorly lagged behind nVidia's 8800GT.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;12717625*
> Is it just me or what? Now that we see more info about Bulldozer and know it's coming out, the less anxious I am to buy one lol.


It's just you. I've got my money sitting here (gift cards I've collected) ready and waiting to be spent on one. Unfortunately though, I'm not sure if I'm going to build right at the start or not anymore. I was hoping the 28nm Graphics cards would be out so I can use them but since they probably won't be until the end of the year, I'll probably wait until they launch and build then.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX;12719203*
> Maybe not 3870 per se...it was an attempt to catchup but it still majorly lagged behind nVidia's 8800GT.


Not really, it was faster than the 8800GS but slower than the 8800GT.
Though it was priced the same as the 8800GS which made it a better value.

The HD3870x2 was the most win for AMD that day though; cheaper than the 8800 Ultra but almost as fast.


----------



## hobosrock696

I almost went for the 8800 series from nVidia but I couldn't pass up the fact that there was a 3870x2 on ebay for $150 less than a new one








ANND it could sorta kinda run crysis.... kinda...


----------



## Tweeky

New 8 core bulldozer see picture


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12719294*
> Not really, it was faster than the 8800GS but slower than the 8800GT.
> Though it was priced the same as the 8800GS which made it a better value.
> 
> The HD3870x2 was the most win for AMD that day though; cheaper than the 8800 Ultra but almost as fast.


3870x2 wizzes all over 8800 anything. Hell my 3850 x2 does


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;12734948*
> 3870x2 wizzes all over 8800 anything. Hell my 3850 x2 does


The Ultra usually won with min FSP.

Though for the time, most games were running above 30 min FPS so it didn't matter.


----------



## Asus11

its coming out in q3 now i've heard it all! bye bye


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12738507*
> its coming out in q3 now i've heard it all! bye bye


Where did you hear that, was it here by any chance?


----------



## HotWasabiPeas

HEHE! Is that singing clip real??


----------



## jonnyrockets

Any truth to this JF? something change? Or just some misinformation.

Basically - bulldozer now to fit on AM3 with Bios update. I should check my facts before even believing this - I seem to remember pinouts being different. I know way back when I bought my board it was announced it would be compatible - but any recent news / specs say otherwise.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/965773-sc-asus-current-motherboard-supported-bulldozer.html


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12738653*
> Where did you hear that, was it here by any chance?


I ment ops q2...2012


----------



## Wbroach23

DjiXas I agree or like the other guy said send them out in some BadA## Tonka Bulldozers lmao


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HotWasabiPeas;12741853*
> HEHE! Is that singing clip real??


I don't know, but it makes me laugh every time I see it.


----------



## SystemTech

http://guru3d.com/news/amd-fx-zambezi-processors-compatible-am3-motherboards/


JF, Please can you check with this. is it for real or is it someone just wanting to do a bit of marketing hype.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SystemTech*


http://guru3d.com/news/amd-fx-zambezi-processors-compatible-am3-motherboards/


JF, Please can you check with this. is it for real or is it someone just wanting to do a bit of marketing hype.


JF has said it multiple times that he can't comment on other vendors products or offerings because he doesn't know anything about how their products and his lawyers advise against talking about other vendors offerings too.


----------



## JF-AMD

AMD is not supporting BD in AM3 sockets. Period.


----------



## cjc75

Guys remember...

AMD said the SAME thing last year with the 8xx Release regarding Core Unlocking...

AMD said they would not support it, and removed the ability from the 8xx Chipset...

But the MOTHERBOARD manufacturers said otherwise, and came up with their OWN way to allow you to unlock cores.

Listen to the manufacturers!


----------



## Amor

Hmm..... Reading between the lines I'm guessing that the official position from AMD is that they themselves are not supporting 8xx chipsets + BD (probably a move to limit liability if things go terribly wrong) but all the power to you/the manufacturers if they can do it.


----------



## raisethe3

Geez, why can't everyone just wait till Bulldozer is released?


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Because we are getting overexcited. The rumors and all the fuss going around bulldozer makes our blood pumping like mad. AND WE NEED THAT CPU ASAP.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;12763983*
> Because we are getting overexcited. The rumors and all the fuss going around bulldozer makes our blood pumping like mad. AND WE NEED THAT CPU ASAP.


Optimus Prime needs that CPU because he knows it will kick Megatron's little Sandy Bridge powered Behind!


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;12760642*
> Geez, why can't everyone just wait till Bulldozer is released?


when ones as old as I can't wait


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12758263*
> AMD is not supporting BD in AM3 sockets. Period.


JF-AMD will BD work in a AM3 socket ?


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12768147*
> JF-AMD will BD work in a AM3 socket ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12758946*
> Hmm..... Reading between the lines I'm guessing that the official position from AMD is that they themselves are not supporting 8xx chipsets + BD (probably a move to limit liability if things go terribly wrong) but all the power to you/the manufacturers if they can do it.


It might work but it appears as if the official position from AMD is that they're not supporting it, and like I said it's probably to limit liability or something like that.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Decepticons use Intel and as we know they getting their ass whooped every time =)).


----------



## purpleannex

I'll have whatever your on... it must be good stuff to produce such gibberish.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


JF-AMD will BD work in a AM3 socket ?


AMD is only supporting Bulldozer in AM3+ sockets.


----------



## cjc75

Guys may as well stop pestering JF on this one...

If he wants to keep saying that, and make AMD look stupid, then fine... But it is obvious he can not disclose any further information anyway as he is only just repeating the same thing he always says.

We just have to wait until the Mobo Manufacturers reveal more detailed specs, or wait until more specific details on Zambezi come out.


----------



## Tweeky

ASUS Bulldozer BIOS 3012 is up an running

BIOS (7) [BIOS History] 
Beta Version 3012

Description M4A89TD PRO/USB3 3012 Test BIOS
For testing AM3+ CPU Function only, do not update this BIOS while using AM3 or previous type CPUs! 
File Size 1.01 (MBytes) 2011/03/14 update 
Download from Global (DLM) Global China P2P


----------



## Optimus_Prime

OK FFS stop pushing the envelope on THE AM3 socket its not coming to AM3 socket. AM3+ hopefully AM4 mobos will appear.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


Guys may as well stop pestering JF on this one...

If he wants to keep saying that, and make AMD look stupid, then fine... But it is obvious he can not disclose any further information anyway as he is only just repeating the same thing he always says.

We just have to wait until the Mobo Manufacturers reveal more detailed specs, or wait until more specific details on Zambezi come out.


First I am on vacation. Second, this is an issue with the motherboard companies, not AMD. The reason I am repeating the same thing is that we have not changed our stance on anything. And I am sure that in a week or two we will continue to say the same thing.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


ASUS Bulldozer BIOS 3012 is up an running

BIOS (7) [BIOS History] 
Beta Version 3012

Description M4A89TD PRO/USB3 3012 Test BIOS
For testing AM3+ CPU Function only, do not update this BIOS while using AM3 or previous type CPUs! 
File Size 1.01 (MBytes) 2011/03/14 update 
Download from Global (DLM) Global China P2P


Nice to see someones got some balls, +rep to you! Shame others wont put there money where their mouth is.


----------



## Asus11

ahh well we dont want your stupid chip you can keep it.. release it when no1 cares.. I WANT IT NOW!


----------



## Bull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jf-amd;12771756*
> first i am on vacation. Second, this is an issue with the motherboard companies, not amd. The reason i am repeating the same thing is that we have not changed our stance on anything. And i am sure that in a week or two we will continue to say the same thing.


enjoy your vacation


----------



## JF-AMD

I have been. But I land saturday morning, then turn around and head to germany for work.

Anyone going to be at Worldhosting day?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12776430*
> ahh well we dont want your stupid chip you can keep it.. release it when no1 cares.. I WANT IT NOW!


me too


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12777025*
> I have been. But I land saturday morning, then turn around and head to germany for work.
> 
> Anyone going to be at Worldhosting day?


Will a BD cpu fit in a AM3 socket ?


----------



## cjc75

Repeating this here, because I said the same thing here...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75;12778007*
> JF-AMD!
> 
> I also owe you an apology Sir. A lot of us here, including myself have been frustrated in our patience; and anxious for more news, at the same time.
> 
> I stated, that your comments are making AMD look stupid. In fact, I am sure several others here have stated such as well, so I apologize for my part. Truth is, I understand your position, and I respect your efforts to provide the limited information that you're allowed to provide us with.
> 
> Truth of the matter is, all we as consumers and customers can do...
> 
> Is just sit back, and wait...
> 
> Honestly, that's not an easy thing for some of us to do, but that's what we have to do, like it or not... but until our wait is over, we continue to speculate, because its fun to do so!


----------



## cjc75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12777025*
> I have been. But I land saturday morning, then turn around and head to germany for work.
> 
> Anyone going to be at Worldhosting day?


I'm glad you're enjoying your vacation, and I hope we here at OCN have not caused you any frustration or grief over our constant bickering and speculating; and pointing fingers at your own statements while trying to define and redefine your words with every other post...

But, as I said, our speculating... Is fun!


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12777800*
> Will a BD cpu fit in a AM3 socket ?


Since the motherboard manufacturers are stating their support for bulldozer on labeled AM3 motherboards, then there is a possibility, yes. So far I haven't seen any images the ASUS motherboards that have the exact same pin count as an AM3b socket, suggesting that they are indeed AM3 sockets in their present boards. Therefore, unless they are willing to take back the boards and physically change the socket, then yes, Bulldozer uses no more then 940 pins with the same physical dimensions of the AM3 socket.

AMD does not support unlocking on the 800 series chipsets. Other vendors do. This is the same story with AMD and bulldozer.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I for one hope that Bulldozer will be out by June. Obviously they will want to hit commercial computers by Back to School sales followed by next Holiday season if they want to catch the markets when they are hot. But, I am sure they know that.

For me I just want to build a second computer as I am currently waiting for the new motherboards to be released for Sandy Bridge. Then I can have the two face off. lol. Actually, the wife will be using the AMD build while I use the Intel build. It would be extra sweet if the C400 came out later this month and I could have another SSD for a boot drive. Fingers crossed.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;12778184*
> I for one hope that Bulldozer will be out by June.


[TPU] AMD FX-Series CPU's Releasing on June 11th -


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12777025*
> I have been. But I land saturday morning, then turn around and head to germany for work.
> 
> Anyone going to be at Worldhosting day?


I wish but I've got to work


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75;12778502*
> [TPU] AMD FX-Series CPU's Releasing on June 11th -


This makes me happy. Now all they have to do is beat Intel's pricing. I can get a 2600K for $279. How about the 8 core AMD FX (if you can really call it 8 cores) for under that? That would be stellar.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


I'm glad you're enjoying your vacation, and I hope we here at OCN have not caused you any frustration or grief over our constant bickering and speculating; and pointing fingers at your own statements while trying to define and redefine your words with every other post...

But, as I said, our speculating... Is fun!










Until someone calls you a liar.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Until someone calls you a liar.


If I have, I do sincerely apologize and please point it out to me...


----------



## JF-AMD

Not saying it was you, really don't remember who and I am not going to bother to go to that other thread.

Too many accusations being thrown around. AMD has been very clear on their stance for AM3+ support only for BD. Someone tosses out AM3 support, which we have clearly reiterated several times that we will not support, and suddenly people are calling me a PR flack and a liar.

Time will show who is right, I have no time for that thread, it's becoming less interesting with every post.


----------



## winginit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75;12778120*
> *But, as I said, our speculating... Is fun!*


Not really.... it's getting tiresome....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75;12778120*
> *constant bickering and speculating; and pointing fingers at your own statements while trying to define and redefine your words with every other post...*


John, I'm amazed that you keep coming back with this going on....


----------



## JF-AMD

Well I have given up on all of that talk. Obviously nobody is listening to me.


----------



## langer1972

I am looking forward very much for this CPU.If this means I have to make another pc then time to start saveing money again.


----------



## raisethe3

Not saying that I don't believe you. But I prefer that we all end this bickering and wait till BD is release, then we'll whine who's right and who's not. So for now, I am I not going to say anymore. (Heck, I never even asked a question in the thread, lol). Just sitting back reading all these post, especially the last few pages had me lol. So for now, I just suggest that we all should keep our lips tight and see in June.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12792974*
> Well I have given up on all of that talk. Obviously nobody is listening to me.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12776430*
> ahh well we dont want your stupid chip you can keep it.. release it when no1 cares.. I WANT IT NOW!


are you prepared for school next week ?
do your homework first, kid.

_people like this make from solid forums just another evil kindergarten.. /facepalm_
and Tweeky is similar, repeating those questions ..


----------



## crossy82

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


JF-AMD will BD work in a AM3 socket ?


Idont get it,keep seeing this over and over,why does anyone want to run an entirely new architecture on an old platform?Certain features are bound to be disabled if they just solder on an AM3+ socket onto an AM3 motherboard,also this will only be certain revisons,and remember these boards supporting this have am3+ socket but the rest of the hardware is AM3.

Personally if i wanted to run a CPU and lose features ive paid for,i would choose the company which does this best..Intel.


----------



## Choopy!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crossy82;12800273*
> Idont get it,keep seeing this over and over,why does anyone want to run an entirely new architecture on an old platform?Certain features are bound to be disabled if they just solder on an AM3+ socket onto an AM3 motherboard,also this will only be certain revisons,and remember these boards supporting this have am3+ socket but the rest of the hardware is AM3.
> 
> Personally if i wanted to run a CPU and lose features ive paid for,i would choose the company which does this best..Intel.


I believe it's supposed to be so people can upgrade to a whole new platform in increments instead of having to pay for everything all at once. But yeah, I couldn't really understand why anyone would want to run it permanently on an old platform either. :X


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crossy82*


Idont get it,keep seeing this over and over,why does anyone want to run an entirely new architecture on an old platform?Certain features are bound to be disabled if they just solder on an AM3+ socket onto an AM3 motherboard,also this will only be certain revisons,and remember these boards supporting this have am3+ socket but the rest of the hardware is AM3.

Personally if i wanted to run a CPU and lose features ive paid for,i would choose the company which does this best..Intel.


Well the biggest reason is to keep businesses happy.

Keep in mind that we, system builders, are the minority of PC users. Majority of the world buys OEM machines like Dell and HP.

The biggest reason to maintain backwards compatibility is so that these companies don't have to scrap their old motherboards or existing parts in favor of the new ones like they have to do with Intel. This in turn keeps their costs low which are hopefully passed on to the consumer purchasing the PC.


----------



## DjiXas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12792974*
> Well I have given up on all of that talk. Obviously nobody is listening to me.


Hey, I have a question: will BD support AM3?

j/k, please don't kill me


----------



## BigCactus

Will 8 cores make crysis faster?









How long before games utilize all 8 cores of BD? 7 years maybe?

Are rumors true that BD will be 50% faster than the 2600k?

When bulldozer crushes the 2600k offering from Intel...is this what we call in the tech industry...game over?


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DjiXas*


Hey, I have a question: will BD support AM3?

j/k, please don't kill me



I can answer you:
no, standart no, Zambezi is AM3+ CPU (a problem with some ASUS AM3 boards I will not explain, its complicated for "newbies"). Simply, Zambezi is AM3+ CPU only







.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Will 8 cores make crysis faster?









*How long before games utilize all 8 cores of BD*? 7 years maybe?

Are rumors true that BD will be 50% faster than the 2600k?

When bulldozer crushes the 2600k offering from Intel...is this what we call in the tech industry...game over?


BD doesn't just come in an 8 core variation, if you only want to game, yet still make use of BD's new architecture, you can buy a quad core.

I've heard no rumour that BD will be 50% faster than a 2600k.

AMD have said the 8 core has 50% more though put than a 6 core thuban.


----------



## FlanK3r

of course, in rendering will be Zambezi monster simillary with Gulftown. In single thread, meaning, operations about 75-80% as core i7 first generation.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;12823310*
> BD doesn't just come in an 8 core variation, if you only want to game, yet still make use of BD's new architecture, you can buy a quad core.
> 
> I've heard no rumour that BD will be 50% faster than a 2600k.
> 
> *AMD have said the 8 core has 50% more though put than a 6 core thuban.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> No. We said that a 16-core Interlagos has 50% more throughput than a 12-core Magny Cours. And that is in server workloads. Please don't confuse the two.


----------



## Amor

I did some quick calculations of my finances and I'm sad to say that I won't be able to jump on the BD platform unless I can get a BD system for ~$1100. I was originally aiming for getting my hands on the 6 core system and toss in a 5850 (eventually dual 5850's for BOINC crunching). Just because I know the 8 core chip will likely be significantly more expensive for it's price since it's the flagship chip in the lineup. I really hope that the chip itself and associated mobo's/other parts are cheap.

Might just jump onto the Llano when it comes out in Jul instead. I'm getting pretty excited about it TBH just from what I've been reading/seeing.

PS: John I can totally wait, I'm pretty patient and plus I don't have the money to buy a system right now anyways.

PPS: If anyone cares, I've decided to invest in a motorcycle instead of getting a new computer and from a cursory look; after the Motorcycle Safety course, safety gear, and the actual bike itself (probably going to start off with a used 250cc) I'm looking at ~$8000 down the drain and that's not even considering insurance yet (which will probably be expensive too since I'm under 24 and part of the "high risk" cohort for collisions). I'm still going to ride my mountain bike though, after all it's good exercise and I need to keep my figure.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12792974*
> Well I have given up on all of that talk.


It's about time !
http://www.overclock.net/12822404-post8260.html

It's just that you have not been very helpful or truthful?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DjiXas;12815709*
> Hey, I have a question: will BD support AM3?
> 
> j/k, please don't kill me


http://www.overclock.net/12822404-post8260.html


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r;12823264*
> I can answer you:
> no, standart no, Zambezi is AM3+ CPU (a problem with some ASUS AM3 boards I will not explain, its complicated for "newbies"). Simply, Zambezi is AM3+ CPU only.


http://www.overclock.net/12822404-post8260.html


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12826426*
> It's about time !
> http://www.overclock.net/12822404-post8260.html
> 
> It's just that you have not been very helpful or truthful?


what is your problem ?

your post shows that somebody from asus support said "it will work",
but i would not put my hand in fire - no guarantee here.

*what if this combination will limit BD performance ? will you be happy to use it ?*
who you gonna blame, if my words come true ? asus ? amd ?

oficially it is not supported. - that means, your guarantee is at risk..
think about it


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;12828798*
> what is your problem ?
> 
> your post shows that somebody from asus support said "it will work",
> but i would not put my hand in fire - no guarantee here.
> 
> *what if this combination will limit BD performance ? will you be happy to use it ?*
> who you gonna blame, if my words come true ? asus ? amd ?
> 
> oficially it is not supported. - that means, your guarantee is at risk..
> think about it


All I asked is will BD work in a AM3 socket ?
And then I asked will a BD fit in a AM3 socket ?
And all got was that its not supported !
Not very helpful and not very truthful !


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12828962*
> All I asked is will BD work in a AM3 socket ?
> And then I asked will a BD fit in a AM3 socket ?
> And all got was that its not supported !
> Not very helpful and not very truthful !


i remember months ago , has been discussed or told (IIRC people from AMD told that) -
- it is possible to make bd backward compatible - BUT expect performance drop

this information is well known, you should remember

for example, intel changes sockets sometimes each year, or less.. so what ?


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12826426*
> It's about time !
> http://www.overclock.net/12822404-post8260.html
> 
> It's just that you have not been very helpful or truthful?


I strongly suggest you understand the definition of "support" before spewing insults.

John, thanks for doing what you do. It's gotta be downright frustrating dealing with the often ungrateful, ignorant and horribly biased members of these hardware communities.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;12829100*
> i remember months ago , has been discussed or told (IIRC people from AMD told that) -
> - it is possible to make bd backward compatible - BUT expect performance drop
> 
> this information is well known, you should remember
> .


Are you saying that if I replace my 955 with a BD that there will be a performance drop in my system?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12829199*
> Are you saying that if I replace my 955 with a BD that there will be a performance drop in my system?


well, this is unknown.. who knows ?

bd chip in old motherboard will have not full potential, that´s the point
(and of course it´s unknown if will work .. or how)

but bd chip in new am3+ motherboard will work 100% and with full performance


----------



## purpleannex

JF-AMD said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *purpleannex*
> 
> 
> BD doesn't just come in an 8 core variation, if you only want to game, yet still make use of BD's new architecture, you can buy a quad core.
> 
> I've heard no rumour that BD will be 50% faster than a 2600k.
> 
> *AMD have said the 8 core has 50% more though put than a 6 core thuban.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> No. We said that a 16-core Interlagos has 50% more throughput than a 12-core Magny Cours. And that is in server workloads. Please don't confuse the two.
> 
> 
> Ok, sorry.
> 
> Can't quite see the difference, since in both cases you're comparing a new cpu with 33% more cores to a cpu based on K-10.... but I stand corrected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying hard not to belive Bulldozer will be another total flop anyway.
> 
> And I just noticed this, which is really disturbing
> 
> "Internal codenamesAs of November 2006, reports leaked the upcoming desktop part codenames Agena, *Agena FX*"
> 
> source
> 
> AMD were calling the original phenoms FX. So they were confident about Phenoms performance? Just like they are about Bulldozers...


----------



## JCPUser

^^

Not to nitpick... but codenames, although thanks to the internet many people do end up knowing them, are not supposed to be public. No matter what they did behind closed doors when designing Phenom... the difference is now they are marketing FX and before they didn't... AMD's behavior has changed so it is logical to assume that something about the chip's performance has changed as well.

Now I don't think it will be slower than Phenom -- that leaves ...


----------



## CryWin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Are you saying that if I replace my 955 with a BD that there will be a performance drop in my system?


 No. It wouldn't be slower than your old CPU, it would be slower than it would be in an AM3+ board.


----------



## unexpectedly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;12829105*
> John, thanks for doing what you do. It's gotta be downright frustrating dealing with the often ungrateful, ignorant and horribly biased members of these hardware communities.


Haters are a measure of success.


----------



## Tweeky

ASUS First to Provide AM3+ CPU Ready Solution for Current AM3 and Future AM3+ Motherboards

http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=6GsoHtkyUhPfSr8p


----------



## Domino

Got a question on the module design.

How much different is this design then the original? Not in the physical representation, but in shear multi-threaded workloads. Lets say, if it were to be explained in a step by step process would be nice.

Traditional I see it as, thread -> cache -> free core; new thread -> cache -> free core; and so on. Is the new process more thread -> cache -> module -> 2 cores? Or does it act more like a watchdog? Where the main thread computes, and the second core does spare instruction sets? How exactly is information processed, step by step, in bulldozer?

I'm a newb and I bet it has been discussed many times before. Cheers on input.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CryWin*


No. It wouldn't be slower than your old CPU, it would be slower than it would be in an AM3+ board.


_"Some top-level AM3 processors (x945 125W, x955 125w and x965 140w/125w) require a special power supply feature, 
often called "dual power-plane". It's supported by default in all native AM3 mainboards, however not in most AM2+ motherboards, 
even those advertised as "AM3 optimized" or "AM3 ready"."_

this problem trottled down the cores (800mhz), and not let them go up. ( some boards AM2,AM2+ , with am3 cpus )

... who knows if something similar happens again
..yes, in this case, new phenom was slower than the old one..


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


I strongly suggest you understand the definition of "support" before spewing insults.

John, thanks for doing what you do. It's gotta be downright frustrating dealing with the often ungrateful, ignorant and horribly biased members of these hardware communities.


I don't take it personally. But it does show people's character sometimes.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Got a question on the module design.

How much different is this design then the original? Not in the physical representation, but in shear multi-threaded workloads. Lets say, if it were to be explained in a step by step process would be nice.

Traditional I see it as, thread -> cache -> free core; new thread -> cache -> free core; and so on. Is the new process more thread -> cache -> module -> 2 cores? Or does it act more like a watchdog? Where the main thread computes, and the second core does spare instruction sets? How exactly is information processed, step by step, in bulldozer?

I'm a newb and I bet it has been discussed many times before. Cheers on input.


I don't understand what you are asking. By default the OS scheduler is going to look for the next available core to schedule a thread.


----------



## mark4d

looking at the new MBs out there i thought bulldozer was going to have 3 memory controllers not 2


----------



## mark4d

well


----------



## JF-AMD

Well, you were mistaken then. We never said 3 channels.


----------



## loveadventurer

Hello JF, I don't know whether you can answer this or not but I was wondering if pricing/specifications are going to be released before the chips are?

Thanks,

Dylan


----------



## Dhalmel

The Nintendo 3DS is just as technologically complex as Bulldozer? 
AMD and as well the consumer does not want a rushed product as there are many variables that need to be tested.

As for the person asking about the triple channel memory, they've never stated this. The most AMD has said was that the server/workstation grade chipsets were capable of quad channel memory support. Triple/Quad channel memory is nearly useless for the consumer level.


----------



## Asus11

i have a feeling bd wont be worth a upgrade from my current rig, and im sure alot agree with me


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *loveadventurer*


Hello JF, I don't know whether you can answer this or not but I was wondering if pricing/specifications are going to be released before the chips are?

Thanks,

Dylan


No, it will not be released before the products.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


i have a feeling bd wont be worth a upgrade from my current rig, and im sure alot agree with me


It depends on what you are running, not what you run.


----------



## mark4d

Its not about what is useable at the consumer levelits adout your competition u know Intel the people who will buy black CPUs are not average people they r gear heads its time amd gives us what we want 3 Chanel memory controlers


----------



## JF-AMD

Even if it gives them no incremental performance increase? I doubt they would want to pay more and not get any benefit.

As it is we have designed a whole new northbridge with ~50% more throughput. It is like getting a third channel without having to pay for one.


----------



## xd_1771

It's kind of like Sandy Bridge. The dual channel performance on Sandy Bridge exceeds Nehalem's performance sometimes due to a vastly improved memory controller. I'm pretty sure with the AMD FX Series this is the same. Going by JF-AMD's words of ~50% more throughput, I smell dual channel DDR3 elapsing a really nice 20GB/s on AMD if we get really lucky this time around


----------



## narmour

What is the general pre-order/pricing on stuff like this. When will we find out when Bulldozer is going to be released, when will we know what chips are going to be available, same with the AM3+ mobo's. I just have no idea what is going on, and I'm in need of an upgrade desperately. My 4th core is now defective and running some games on 3 cores is giving me FPS drops.

I want a Crosshair V but have no idea if one is even in the pipeline, I also want a top end BD chip but have no idea what price/performance per module is going to be like? I wish we were given more of an idea.

Sandy Bridge performance is good... it's making me wonder if waiting is going to be worthwhile when I know nothing about BD or AM3+ boards.


----------



## raisethe3

I never knew that, that's nice.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12894099*
> Even if it gives them no incremental performance increase? I doubt they would want to pay more and not get any benefit.
> 
> *As it is we have designed a whole new northbridge with ~50% more throughput. It is like getting a third channel without having to pay for one*.


----------



## amay200

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12894099*
> Even if it gives them no incremental performance increase? I doubt they would want to pay more and not get any benefit.
> 
> As it is we have designed a whole new northbridge with ~50% more throughput. It is like getting a third channel without having to pay for one.


does this apply to servers as well? or is this purely client based systems? (or is this purely server & not client)


----------



## JF-AMD

The original request was on desktop. Server will be 2 and 4 channel.


----------



## amay200

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


The original request was on desktop. Server will be 2 and 4 channel.


yes, however if you can boost throughput by ~50% on client based systems, can it be done via a chipset on server based systems?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12892626*
> i have a feeling bd wont be worth a upgrade from my current rig, and im sure alot agree with me


why you are trashing amd threads with your troll posts ?
go play to sandpit, kid

why always some fanatic people have urgent need for badmouthing


----------



## amay200

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12892626*
> i have a feeling bd wont be worth a upgrade from my current rig, and im sure alot agree with me


Rumor has it Intel is pulling in their Ivy-Bridge roadmap due to Bulldozer
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KitGuru*
> In a recent KitGuru survey, a massive number of respondents told us which processors they wanted the most - and Bulldozer was a clear winner with 50% of the votes. The result was such a surprise that we checked back through each vote to make sure that all of them had not been registered by the ghost of Dirk Meyer. Following that, we've just noticed that another major web site is running its own poll - and that one shows 69% of readers are waiting for Bulldozer.


so 50% the readers of KitGuru don't agree as half of them are waiting

source

not sure where you are getting your info bud


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;12855367*
> ASUS First to Provide AM3+ CPU Ready Solution for Current AM3 and Future AM3+ Motherboards
> 
> http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=6GsoHtkyUhPfSr8p


According to that article, I could update my BIOS and run a BD

I wonder how it would perform??? a BD in AM3 board, compared to an x4 965 or x6 1090 in games


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;12903579*
> yes, however if you can boost throughput by ~50% on client based systems, can it be done via a chipset on server based systems?


I am not sure you know what you are asking. The memory controller is in the processor, not the chipset.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;12909260*
> Rumor has it Intel is pulling in their Ivy-Bridge roadmap due to Bulldozer


Well, this would be a very expensive proposition. If this is true, that is a pretty good indicator of bulldozer's performance, right? They wouldn't spend the money to accelarate a process node move if they didn't need to.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;12909346*
> According to that article, I could update my BIOS and run a BD
> 
> I wonder how it would perform??? a BD in AM3 board, compared to an x4 965 or x6 1090 in games


AMD is only supporting BD on AM3+ sockets.


----------



## Sizuke

John this is nice stuff but will it run Crysis 2? Oh wait...

Just messing with you, looks promising, best of luck


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


AMD is only supporting BD on AM3+ sockets.


ASUS says some of its AM3 MBs can run a BD after a BIOS update, but at some reduced capacity compared to a real AM3+ MB.


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


AMD is only supporting BD on AM3+ sockets.


We all know what AMD's position is, but the real question is, does a BD chip fit in a AM3 socket board ?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


ASUS says some of its AM3 MBs can run a BD after a BIOS update, but at some reduced capacity compared to a real AM3+ MB.


That doesn't mean I'm wrong.


----------



## pale_neon

I'm curious when AM4 will be released. If the extended release of AM3+ means a longer wait for AM4 or if it means a shorter one.

AM2 May 2006
1 year 5 months

AM2+ Oct 2007
1 year 4 months

AM3 Feb 2009
2 years 5 monts

AM3+ Jun/Jul 2011
? years ? months

AM4 ?


----------



## el gappo

AM4 = DDR4
caps filter


----------



## SystemTech

Well Samsung have already started producing DDR4 RAM Modules so... My guess is for DDR4 to be released as top end probably next year or so. Maybe with IVy Bridge and a Bulldozer Revision for AM4. Wonder what the new chipset will be called as we are awaiting the 990 chipset. Whats after that?

They will be in contact with mobo and CPU manufacturers to use the new tech so my guess is that production has already started for paving the way for DDR4.

Oh no the high CL timings


----------



## JF-AMD

While memory companies are starting to sample DDR4, it is still going to be several years before we get DDR4 in boards.

Plus, you have to consider that the first DDR4 is going to be slower than DDR3. So, you don't get widespread integration until later. People don't like to pay more for to get less, even though it has a "4" at the end.


----------



## aweir

Why ddr4 and not straight to ddr5 like video cards?


----------



## JF-AMD

different technologies


----------



## Phantom123

DDR3 has still got a lot of life left in it. Voltages are getting down to 1.25V, and speeds are still growing at 2133mhz.

Sandy Bridge has support for 1600mhz speed and Bulldozer has support for 1866mhz speed. So there is still a lot of life left.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


While memory companies are starting to sample DDR4, it is still going to be several years before we get DDR4 in boards.

Plus, you have to consider that the first DDR4 is going to be slower than DDR3. So, you don't get widespread integration until later. People don't like to pay more for to get less, even though it has a "4" at the end.


nvm I found it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Why ddr4 and not straight to ddr5 like video cards?


Graphics cards use GDDR ram (literally meaning Graphic Double Data Rate) but there's some differences when compared to system memory. Unfortunately, it's really hard to just find one filtered list of all those differences but if you look at like every one of the top 20 sites in a google search, you'll get the gist of them.

Also, Graphics cards didn't jump. They went from GDDR3 to GDDR4 to GDDR5. GDDR4 was really only used in the HD 3870 though and then GDDR5 has been used on the top cards ever since (i'm guessing because it's quad data rate).

However, we'll be pumping DDR3 system RAM until at least 2015 or whenever it is that DDR4 becomes mass produced.

http://www.simmtester.com/page/news/....asp?num=13216
http://www.techpowerup.com/128919/PC...-Roadmaps.html

Apparently, at least according to the article, sampling starts this year which is supposed to give "the industry" time enough to come up with new memory controllers to support the RAM by the time that it's actually mass produced.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


While memory companies are starting to sample DDR4, it is still going to be several years before we get DDR4 in boards.

Plus, you have to consider that the first DDR4 is going to be slower than DDR3. So, you don't get widespread integration until later. People don't like to pay more for to get less, even though it has a "4" at the end.


well that makes me feel a lot better about springing for a top tier AM3+ mobo like a ASUS Crosshair.


----------



## Amor

I'm normally not one to do this sort of thing but:

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/03/leaked-bulldozer-benchmarks-may-give-glimpse-of-amds-future.ars

It's Ars so I think qualifies as a pretty legitimate source and if they're linking offsite that site is probably legitimate as well or Ars would lose it's reputation.

EDIT: Just made my way through this other article that Ars linked to: http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT033011040021

I guess hope isn't lost. We'll just have to see what happens when production chips start shipping out and benches for them come out, after all the tests were done on Engineering Samples.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;12945353*
> I'm normally not one to do this sort of thing but:
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/03/leaked-bulldozer-benchmarks-may-give-glimpse-of-amds-future.ars
> 
> It's Ars so I think qualifies as a pretty legitimate source and if they're linking offsite that site is probably legitimate as well or Ars would lose it's reputation.
> 
> EDIT: Just made my way through this other article that Ars linked to: http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT033011040021
> 
> I guess hope isn't lost. We'll just have to see what happens when production chips start shipping out and benches for them come out, after all the tests were done on Engineering Samples.


i hope you saw this also -
Quote:


> Funny thing, I just talked to some folks at AMD yesterday who essentially stated that whatever samples are out there qualify to the point that "they are running" but nothing else.


http://realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&id=118157&threadid=118149&roomid=2


----------



## UsedPaperclip

Hell yea, I remember when I was reading about Sledge hammer before it came out and I don't remember it getting as much hype as bulldozer is. I just hope the 8130 is around $330 like the 2600k and out perform it like the leaks were showing.


----------



## olllian

AM3+ is a modification of the AM3 Socket designed for future "Zambezi" CPUs which use the new Bulldozer microarchitecture and will retain compatibility with AM3 processors. Contrary to initial design goals, "Zambezi" won't support AM3: AMD claims it's the only way to deliver its full potential. The set of features is not yet known.[7]

An early preview of a motherboard from MSI[8], indicates Socket AM3+ is also known as Socket AM3b. The pin-count for this revised socket is 942-pins.

Some manufacturers have announced that some of their AM3 motherboards will support AM3+ CPUs, after a simple BIOS upgrade.[9] Mechanical compatibility has been confirmed and it's possible AM3+ CPUs will work in AM3 boards, provided they can supply enough peak current. Another issue might be the use of the sideband temperature sensor interface for reading the temperature from the CPU. Also, certain power-saving features may not work, due to lack of support for rapid VCore switching.[10] Note that use of AM3+ CPUs in AM3 boards may not be officially supported by AMD.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olllian*


AM3+ is a modification of the AM3 Socket designed for future "Zambezi" CPUs which use the new Bulldozer microarchitecture and will retain compatibility with AM3 processors. Contrary to initial design goals, "Zambezi" won't support AM3: AMD claims it's the only way to deliver its full potential. The set of features is not yet known.[7]

An early preview of a motherboard from MSI[8], indicates Socket AM3+ is also known as Socket AM3b. The pin-count for this revised socket is 942-pins.

Some manufacturers have announced that some of their AM3 motherboards will support AM3+ CPUs, after a simple BIOS upgrade.[9] Mechanical compatibility has been confirmed and it's possible AM3+ CPUs will work in AM3 boards, provided they can supply enough peak current. Another issue might be the use of the sideband temperature sensor interface for reading the temperature from the CPU. Also, certain power-saving features may not work, due to lack of support for rapid VCore switching.[10] Note that use of AM3+ CPUs in AM3 boards may not be officially supported by AMD.


Could you kindly supply the source of the news that says that BD (AM3b) can fit in AM3? Curious. Nothing more.


----------



## olllian

Quote:



Could you kindly supply the source of the news that says that BD (AM3b) can fit in AM3? Curious. Nothing more.


 Hear ya go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor)


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olllian*


Hear ya go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor)


Socket AM3+ (AM3b)
- 942pin, DDR3 support
- will not retain backward compatiblity with Socket AM3 motherboards but AM3+ motherboards will be backward compatible with AM3 processors[19]. For the server segment Socket G34 (LGA1974) and Socket C32 (LGA1207) will be used.

Directly from the article.


----------



## loveadventurer

*Can't wait to see what these babies can dooooooo*


----------



## alcamuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loveadventurer;12955883*
> *Can't wait to see what these babies can dooooooo*


agree with u








*roolin my way back to page 60s... oh boy... it takes more time than I've ever imagine to read all the postings here.. LoL...


----------



## Console-hater

Who will win...










OR


----------



## Asus11

ivy bridge obviously lol.. bulldozer is coming out to compete with sandy bridge, also @aclamuz you could read this thread from page 1 to 84 many times before bulldozer comes out lol


----------



## Choopy!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;12985062*
> ivy bridge obviously lol.. bulldozer is coming out to compete with sandy bridge, also @aclamuz you could read this thread from page 1 to 84 many times before bulldozer comes out lol


There will be revised bulldozer chips out later to compete with ivy bridge too I believe. Whether it actually does on the performance level, I don't know. D:


----------



## SystemTech

Damn April fools, Im still trying to recover.


----------



## Amor

As seen on Slashdot. Looks like BD and AM3 will work but some features will not/will be crippled if trying to use a BD and AM3 together. But we'll just have to see what happens. I know that AMD's official position is they're not SUPPORTING it and not validating BD chips for the regular AM3 socket but this should prove to be interesting.
Quote:


> "One of the most dreaded hurdles on the PC upgrade path is the CPU socket. If socket design changes then you'll almost certainly need a new motherboard when you do upgrade. This is an area where AMD has historically been much better than Intel. Intel tends to change sockets with each generation of CPU - currently there are three types out there, LGA 1155 for Sandy Bridge, LGA 1156 for first generation core and LGA 1366 for the performance Core i7 processors. AMD on the other hand has always tried to keep sockets across generations. When it releases its new Bulldozer core desktop processors later this year AMD is having to make a socket shift from the current AM3 socket to a new one called AM3+. This article discusses the change, issues like backwards compatibility and what the industry is doing to prepare for the socket shift."


Continue to article: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/253244,amd-bulldozer-cpus-get-early-motherboard-support.aspx


----------



## decimator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


As seen on Slashdot. Looks like BD and AM3 will work but some features will not/will be crippled if trying to use a BD and AM3 together. But we'll just have to see what happens. I know that AMD's official position is they're not SUPPORTING it and not validating BD chips for the regular AM3 socket but this should prove to be interesting.

Continue to article: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/2...d-support.aspx


Just to clarify, mobos with AM3 sockets WILL NOT WORK with upcoming Bulldozer products. Some mobo makers have decided to release revisions of existing mobos with the AM3+ socket. These mobos will work with upcoming Bulldozer products with a BIOS update.


----------



## Amor

Damn.... I see how it works now (that will teach me to RTFA closely before posting blindly, this isn't Slashdot after all







).


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Damn.... I see how it works now (that will teach me to RTFA closely before posting blindly, this isn't Slashdot after all







).


http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/

The 1st 6 motherboard have already been released and have AM3 sockets and will accept and work with bulldozer CPU's.
Do not let anyone deceive you any longer.
Other manufactures are doing the same thing.

http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/


----------



## olllian

Quote:



The 1st 6 motherboard have already been released and have AM3 sockets and will accept and work with bulldozer CPU's.
Do not let anyone deceive you any longer.
Other manufactures are doing the same thing.


Sweet that means i dont have to get a new motherboard?


----------



## 4Brand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *olllian;13015897*
> Sweet that means i dont have to get a new motherboard?


Nope.









Although you will probably lose out on some power saving features.

Source.


----------



## juhansoo12

Asrock also has new motherboards with black sockets and they've added UEFI aswell.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/index.asp?s=AM3


----------



## Bun-ny

Found This























http://www.overclockers.com/amd-confirms-support-bulldozer-am3/?utm_source=pr

Steve


----------



## juhansoo12

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bun-ny*


Found This























http://www.overclockers.com/amd-conf...?utm_source=pr

Steve


Guess they couldn't stand the pressure.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bun-ny*


Found This























http://www.overclockers.com/amd-conf...?utm_source=pr

Steve



Quote:



Originally Posted by *juhansoo12*


Guess they couldn't stand the pressure.


AMD have said all along they will only support BD on AM3+.

I don't see how "AMD Confirms They Will Support Bulldozer on AM3+" is to be considered news.


----------



## hokiealumnus

In itself, that isn't really news; the headline was meant to be a hopefully amusing "duh". Apparently not everyone was entertained. I just happened to have a conversation with a person from AMD and wanted to share what he said. FWIW.


----------



## Optimistic

I just bought an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX motherboard. With the BIOS update, will I be able to run the 8-core or 6-core Bulldozer CPUs normally? I'm planning to get a X4 now if the motherboard will handle Bulldozer, and a X6 if it won't.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimistic*


I just bought an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX motherboard. With the BIOS update, will I be able to run the 8-core or 6-core Bulldozer CPUs normally? I'm planning to get a X4 now if the motherboard will handle Bulldozer, and a X6 if it won't.


I have that board and according to Asus it will run Bulldozer with a BIOS update and in fact if you go to their web site they have a Beta that does just that. Having said that, why would anybody want to run a Bulldozer CPU on an older board that won't unlock all of Bulldozer's features? That's like putting an Porsche engine in a Ford Focus. I'm waiting to buy a 9 series chipset board and run my current gear on it until I can afford to get a Bulldozer CPU. That way I have full support for Bulldozer's feature set. Asus and MSI are just muddying the waters with all this BS about current boards being Bulldozer capable.


----------



## Optimistic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe;13060579*
> I have that board and according to Asus it will run Bulldozer with a BIOS update and in fact if you go to their web site they have a Beta that does just that. Having said that, why would anybody want to run a Bulldozer CPU on an older board that won't unlock all of Bulldozer's features? That's like putting an Porsche engine in a Ford Focus. I'm waiting to buy a 9 series chipset board and run my current gear on it until I can afford to get a Bulldozer CPU. That way I have full support for Bulldozer's feature set. Asus and MSI are just muddying the waters with all this BS about current boards being Bulldozer capable.


What features are the AM3 ASUS boards with BIOS updates incapable of accessing?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimistic*


What features are the AM3 ASUS boards with BIOS updates incapable of accessing?


NDA.

Because of that nobody knows for sure. Most ASUS board owners think that the missing features will just be cool n quiet or some other equally non-important feature like turboCORE 2.0. Others think that there is a good reason why AMD is refusing to support BD in AM3 sockets and as such there will be a noticeable performance loss in AM3.

Nothing to do but wait.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimistic*


I just bought an ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX motherboard. With the BIOS update, will I be able to run the 8-core or 6-core Bulldozer CPUs normally? I'm planning to get a X4 now if the motherboard will handle Bulldozer, and a X6 if it won't.


it appears the M4A98TD will run with the bulldozer's
as to normally is the question but it will run bulldozer better than the old cpu's


----------



## FlanK3r

Il make test comparsion of performance Cross IV Extreme+Zambezi with Cross V Formula+Zambezi.


----------



## purpleannex

...no doubt you'll have a golden chip that can go to 9000...


----------



## pietro sk

iÂ´ve been thinking about this bios compatibility, and imho new board would be better idea.

example: USB2.0 drive is compatible with USB1.0, but i wouldnÂ´t like to copy 10GB trough it








_sometimes you have backward compatibility, that you dont need_


----------



## ShiftedReality

I am also interested in seeing numbers for the new revision of 8 series mobo's and that of the upcoming 9 series.. looking forward to 990X/990FX goodness.


----------



## linkin93

You Tube  



 
Linus talks about strong FPU power of GPU's, and about strong Serial power of CPU's, and asks the guy about combining the best of both worlds. This is really interesting stuff here! The guy said because of AMD's merger with ATI, they *could* be able to have an APU/CPU/GPU or "thing" that has the strong FPU power of a GPU and strong Serial power of a CPU combined into one chip.

If that's the case, they could have Intel by the balls here!!


----------



## purpleannex

Isn't that the point of the enhanced bulldozer?


----------



## eflat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe*


I have that board and according to Asus it will run Bulldozer with a BIOS update and in fact if you go to their web site they have a Beta that does just that. Having said that, why would anybody want to run a Bulldozer CPU on an older board that won't unlock all of Bulldozer's features? *That's like putting an Porsche engine in a Ford Focus.* I'm waiting to buy a 9 series chipset board and run my current gear on it until I can afford to get a Bulldozer CPU. That way I have full support for Bulldozer's feature set. Asus and MSI are just muddying the waters with all this BS about current boards being Bulldozer capable.










Surely there'd be *some* benefit to the Ford...if it didn't implode.


----------



## Wbroach23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMiniMe;13060579*
> I have that board and according to Asus it will run Bulldozer with a BIOS update and in fact if you go to their web site they have a Beta that does just that. Having said that, why would anybody want to run a Bulldozer CPU on an older board that won't unlock all of Bulldozer's features? That's like putting an Porsche engine in a Ford Focus. I'm waiting to buy a 9 series chipset board and run my current gear on it until I can afford to get a Bulldozer CPU. That way I have full support for Bulldozer's feature set. Asus and MSI are just muddying the waters with all this BS about current boards being Bulldozer capable.


They put porsche motors in Beatles all the time that was a ridiculous analogy. Hell the guy rebuilding my porsche motor wanted to put a chevy 305 in my porsche i told him heck no what are you dumb lol. but still i agree i wouldnt put BD in anything but the board its designed for


----------



## love9sick

Finally!, some real credible benchmarks one can believe.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13118397*
> Finally!, some real credible benchmarks one can believe.


I hate milk.


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;13118423*
> I hate milk.


That's why it isn't even a 2. I was thinking of you. Hoping for a June release here! for the processor and not milk.


----------



## bravoHGT

BD on AM3 is confirmed by Steeve bourdon in France :

http://www.clubic.com/processeur/processeur-amd/actualite-411664-processeurs-amd-am3-socket-am3-bulldozer.html

Transalte : http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clubic.com%2Fprocesseur%2Fprocesseur-amd%2Factualite-411664-processeurs-amd-am3-socket-am3-bulldozer.html


----------



## purpleannex

Thanks for that...

but you're a day late!


----------



## cssorkinman

Sorry if this has been posted, but i just ran across this on the MSI site:
http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=newsdesc&news_no=939


----------



## httuner

WHY IS AMD HOLDING OUT ON US!!...

...... Still waiting.... zzzZZzzz

I am so tired and bored of my Sandybridge CPU, I need a bulldozer to overclock for my overclocking Needs!!!!


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna*


I hate milk.


Got Bulldozer?


----------



## purpleannex

If the AM3 boards don't run BD as it was intended, it's going to give AMD a major publicity headache.

What I mean by that, is that after all the hype about BD's performance, if it's gimped significantly by the AM3 socket, and this is the resulting performance users experience, then those users will be telling people that it's just another AMD POS, don't bother buy Intel.

Or it maybe that AM3 won't be any detriment to performance at all, and AMD are only supporting AM3+ because that was a clause of the 990 chipset, sli support (rumoured) deal with Nvidia.


----------



## httuner

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


If the AM3 boards don't run BD as it was intended, it's going to give AMD a major publicity headache.

What I mean by that, is that after all the hype about BD's performance, if it's gimped significantly by the AM3 socket, and this is the resulting performance users experience, then those users will be telling people that it's just another AMD POS, don't bother buy Intel.

Or it maybe that AM3 won't be any detriment to performance at all, and AMD are only supporting AM3+ because that was a clause of the 990 chipset, sli support (rumoured) deal with Nvidia.


Whoaa whoaa_ since when did AMD Processors ever a POS processor, we barely even make use of our AMD processors, majority of users don't even need all the power current AMD processors provide. Intel in general is overkill for majority of users so AMD still wins, (I get all the power I need and more for less) while Intel is (Too much power that I paided too much for that I will never probably even put to use)

so AMD = WIN processor


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *httuner*


Whoaa whoaa_ since when did AMD Processors ever a POS processor, we barely even make use of our AMD processors, majority of users don't even need all the power current AMD processors provide. Intel in general is overkill for majority of users so AMD still wins, (I get all the power I need and more for less) while Intel is (Too much power that I paided too much for that I will never probably even put to use)


I would totally use up all 6 cores of a Phenom X6, but that said it's moreso for a hobby/side thing (BOINC crunching) rather than actual work use (which a 955 is plenty enough for, hell even my T5800 can run AutoCAD and Arc decently well).

As for the AMD vs Intel thing. My dad bought an i7 system last year to replace his ("aging") Athlon64 X2 (4600+ I believe). I told him he didn't need the power but ignored me anyways and now he's asking me why his stuff is only slightly faster and he didn't get the performance boost that he was expecting (Well, probably because all he needed was an Athlon II X2 or X4 and an SSD).

Only now is he looking at getting an SSD (which is probably a smart buy since they're getting cheaper and cheaper these days).

Also you can't discount the "brandname power" either. Intel has been ingrained into most peoples minds as being "better" and that probably developed during the Intel anti-trust days when they were paying off the computer manufacturers.

Back in the day my dad was saying "OMG This AMD T-Bird is so kickass much better than that overpriced Intel stuff". (Pencil trick FTW!) Now it's:

"But AMD procs overheat. Look you needed to replace the TIM and stock coolers look at how much voltage you're pushing on the Phenom, my Intel at work doesn't need that much voltage to run properly". "Ummm yeah.... that's totally the stock voltage on the Phenom, and 3.8 Ghz is totally the stock clockspeed too







". The only reason he can complain is because he paid for part of the system and he doesn't want another "DFI incident" happening







(For the record it wasn't a DFI mobo, it was some cheapo Asrock I think).


----------



## steevieweevie

I would like to drive a Bulldozer into Intel's head office.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *httuner;13134352*
> Whoaa whoaa_ since when did AMD Processors ever a POS processor, we barely even make use of our AMD processors, majority of users don't even need all the power current AMD processors provide. Intel in general is overkill for majority of users so AMD still wins, (I get all the power I need and more for less) while Intel is (Too much power that I paided too much for that I will never probably even put to use)
> 
> so AMD = WIN processor


Re-read it again, that's not what I was saying.

Picture yourself reading this forum in 3 months time, people are posting benchmarks of BD running on AM3 boards, they're getting (guess) 20% more performance than Thuban.... and the Intel fanboys are saying "see, we told you so, same old AMD pos..."

AMD have said 50% more through put, anything less, the boards gimped you.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13136269*
> Re-read it again, that's not what I was saying.
> 
> Picture yourself reading this forum in 3 months time, people are posting benchmarks of BD running on AM3 boards, they're getting (guess) 20% more performance than Thuban.... and the Intel fanboys are saying "see, we told you so, same old AMD pos..."
> 
> AMD have said 50% more through put, anything less, the boards gimped you.


Then all the AM3+ board owners will point and laugh saying "that is why AMD doesn't support BD in AM3".

Not only will I not feel sorry for any AMD owner who tries to shoehorn BD into a AM3 board, but AMD is not at fault because they have been brutally clear about BD's socket for over a half a year now.

Intel fanboys will go about their business as usual. If BD in AM3 is 30% faster than SB they will all chorus "wait till Ivy -- that is BD 'real' competition" like parrots anyway.


----------



## ShiftedReality

I am also very curious to see the performance difference between 990FX/990X and say the 890FX/GX boards. At least the new 8 series revisions have UEFI so that means the 9 series will to, cant wait!


----------



## love9sick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


If the AM3 boards don't run BD as it was intended, it's going to give AMD a major publicity headache.

What I mean by that, is that after all the hype about BD's performance, if it's gimped significantly by the AM3 socket, and this is the resulting performance users experience, then those users will be telling people that it's just another AMD POS, don't bother buy Intel.

Or it maybe that AM3 won't be any detriment to performance at all, and AMD are only supporting AM3+ because that was a clause of the 990 chipset, sli support (rumoured) deal with Nvidia.


This point makes me wonder. I wonder how many people are actually going to flash their previous AM3 motherboards compared to how many people are going to purchase a new motherboard. I will be purchasing a new motherboard because it is time however I think you bring up a strong point. If the majority flash and use a previous mobo the over-all community rating could be influenced by a factor that isn't the processors fault.


----------



## Tweeky

If BD can compete with intel's $1000 chip, then how much will BD cost?


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


If BD can compete with intel's $1000 chip, then how much will BD cost?


According to the leaked product positioning slides, the top 8 core Bulldozer will cost slightly less than Intel's 2600k.

Even if it competes and beats Intel's $1000 processors doesn't mean it will cost $1000. Turn back time 5 years ago when AMD's FX cost $1000 and Intel's $300 Core 2 Duo wiped the floor with it.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


According to the leaked product positioning slides, the top 8 core Bulldozer will cost slightly less than Intel's 2600k.

Even if it competes and beats Intel's $1000 processors doesn't mean it will cost $1000. Turn back time 5 years ago when AMD's FX cost $1000 and Intel's $300 Core 2 Duo wiped the floor with it.


AMD's FX still cost $1,000 because it was made to compete with the networst Pentium 4/Pentium D.
If AMD had changed the price to $200 it would have sold very well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *steevieweevie*


I would like to drive a Bulldozer into Intel's head office.


Have it painted "AMD green" for the lolz.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


I would totally use up all 6 cores of a Phenom X6, but that said it's moreso for a hobby/side thing (BOINC crunching) rather than actual work use (which a 955 is plenty enough for, hell even my T5800 can run AutoCAD and Arc decently well).

As for the AMD vs Intel thing. My dad bought an i7 system last year to replace his ("aging") Athlon64 X2 (4600+ I believe). I told him he didn't need the power but ignored me anyways and now he's asking me why his stuff is only slightly faster and he didn't get the performance boost that he was expecting (Well, probably because all he needed was an Athlon II X2 or X4 and an SSD).

Only now is he looking at getting an SSD (which is probably a smart buy since they're getting cheaper and cheaper these days).

Also you can't discount the "brandname power" either. Intel has been ingrained into most peoples minds as being "better" and that probably developed during the Intel anti-trust days when they were paying off the computer manufacturers.

Back in the day my dad was saying "OMG This AMD T-Bird is so kickass much better than that overpriced Intel stuff". (Pencil trick FTW!) Now it's:

"But AMD procs overheat. Look you needed to replace the TIM and stock coolers look at how much voltage you're pushing on the Phenom, my Intel at work doesn't need that much voltage to run properly". "Ummm yeah.... that's totally the stock voltage on the Phenom, and 3.8 Ghz is totally the stock clockspeed too







". The only reason he can complain is because he paid for part of the system and he doesn't want another "DFI incident" happening







(For the record it wasn't a DFI mobo, it was some cheapo Asrock I think).


+REP!


----------



## mickogti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13134476*
> I would totally use up all 6 cores of a Phenom X6, but that said it's moreso for a hobby/side thing (BOINC crunching) rather than actual work use (which a 955 is plenty enough for, hell even my T5800 can run AutoCAD and Arc decently well).
> 
> As for the AMD vs Intel thing. My dad bought an i7 system last year to replace his ("aging") Athlon64 X2 (4600+ I believe). I told him he didn't need the power but ignored me anyways and now he's asking me why his stuff is only slightly faster and he didn't get the performance boost that he was expecting (Well, probably because all he needed was an Athlon II X2 or X4 and an SSD).
> 
> Only now is he looking at getting an SSD (which is probably a smart buy since they're getting cheaper and cheaper these days).
> 
> Also you can't discount the "brandname power" either. Intel has been ingrained into most peoples minds as being "better" and that probably developed during the Intel anti-trust days when they were paying off the computer manufacturers.
> 
> Back in the day my dad was saying "OMG This AMD T-Bird is so kickass much better than that overpriced Intel stuff". (Pencil trick FTW!) Now it's:
> 
> "But AMD procs overheat. Look you needed to replace the TIM and stock coolers look at how much voltage you're pushing on the Phenom, my Intel at work doesn't need that much voltage to run properly". "Ummm yeah.... that's totally the stock voltage on the Phenom, and 3.8 Ghz is totally the stock clockspeed too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ". The only reason he can complain is because he paid for part of the system and he doesn't want another "DFI incident" happening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For the record it wasn't a DFI mobo, it was some cheapo Asrock I think).


FTW !

Anyway, i dont see why are people saying that am3 will gimp BD's performance when that is nowhere to be found. A few times it has been said that am3 will only have some power-saving stuff disabled







Dont make cofusion pls


----------



## love9sick

A $1000 dollar processor from AMD would be a bad idea right now with out something to show for in the low to mid-range market. I'm hoping it is a good successor to the Phenom II and am less concerned with it taking the crown in the CPU market. I think having the fastest processor out doesn't mean you win in the business sense of things, unless it is surprisingly cheap. I will be sporting the bulldoesher in June if the rumored release date is true.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;13137597*
> Then all the AM3+ board owners will point and laugh saying "that is why AMD doesn't support BD in AM3".
> 
> Not only will I not feel sorry for any AMD owner who tries to shoehorn BD into a AM3 board, but AMD is not at fault because they have been brutally clear about BD's socket for over a half a year now.
> 
> Intel fanboys will go about their business as usual. If BD in AM3 is 30% faster than SB they will all chorus "wait till Ivy -- that is BD 'real' competition" like parrots anyway.


I agree, i'll laugh at them too, but you can't close pandora's box, the tainted benches will be out there, getting misread, half the people won't bother to look what socket it's on or wouldn't know it made any difference anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13140354*
> This point makes me wonder. I wonder how many people are actually going to flash their previous AM3 motherboards compared to how many people are going to purchase a new motherboard. I will be purchasing a new motherboard because it is time however I think you bring up a strong point. *If the majority flash and use a previous mobo the over-all community rating could be influenced by a factor that isn't the processors fault*.


This is the point I was making.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mickogti*


Anyway, i dont see why are people saying that am3 will gimp BD's performance when that is nowhere to be found. A few times it has been said that am3 will only have some power-saving stuff disabled







Dont make cofusion pls










Whether it will be gimped or not remains to be seen. Until Bulldozer is officially released, then we won't know for sure. However, I reckon a lot of people expecting gimped performance may have read this:
http://www.planet3dnow.de/cgi-bin/ne...&id=1282840508

Quote:



_ "The existing G34 and C32 server infrastructure will support the new Bulldozer-based server products. In order for AMDâ€™s desktop offering to fully leverage the capabilities of Bulldozer, an enhanced AM3+ socket will be introduced that supports Bulldozer and is backward-compatible with our existing AM3 CPU offerings."

"When we initially set out on the path to Bulldozer we were hoping for AM3 compatibility, but further along the process we realized that we had a choice to make based on some of the features that we wanted to bring with Bulldozer. We could either provide AM3 support and lose some of the capabilities of the new Bulldozer architecture or, we could choose the AM3+ socket which would allow the Bulldozer-base Zambezi to have greater performance and capability.

The majority of the computer buying public will not upgrade their processors, but enthusiasts do. When we did the analysis it was clear that the customers who were most likely to upgrade an AM3 motherboard to a Bulldozer would want the features and capability that would only be delivered in the new AM3+ sockets. A classic Catch-22.

Why not do both you ask? Just make a second model that only works in AM3? First, because that would greatly increase the cost and infrastructure of bringing the product to market, which would drive up the cost of the product (for both AMD and its partners). Secondly, adding an additional product would double the time involved in many of the development steps.

So in the end, delivering an AM3 capability would bring you a less featured product that was more expensive and later to market. Instead we chose the path of the AM3+ socket, which is a path that we hope will bring you a better priced product, with greater performance and more features - on time.

When we looked at the market for AM3 upgrades, it was clear that the folks most interested in an AM3-based product were the enthusiasts. This is one set of customers that we know are not willing to settle for second best when it comes to performance, so we definitely needed to ensure that our new architecture would meet their demanding needs, for both high performance and overclockability. We believe they will see that in AM3+."_


I reckon the decision AMD made with Bulldozer not supporting the AM3 socket was not taken lightly. That they chose to go with a new socket and risk alienating part of their user base likely means sticking to AM3 would have held back Bulldozer considerably on the performance/features front.


----------



## Tweeky

The overclockers.com interview was with Damon Munzy (thanks hokiealumnus!). It would seem that Josh Walrath was correct about the black socket motherboards still being "AM3" even though the physical socket looks like AM3+. It appears that AMD only considers true AM3+ to be the physical socket combined with a 900-series chipset (this combination is Scorpius), and that platform is likely to be required to "support new power management features as well as â€œboosting technologyâ€ (turbo boost)".

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2156179


----------



## Domino

Hey JF, a bit of a personal question....

You're big in mountain biking and the outdoors as personal hobbies. What made you want to go work for AMD?


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Hey JF, a bit of a personal question....

You're big in mountain biking and the outdoors as personal hobbies. What made you want to go work for AMD?


It's not that uncommon. Not all techies are people who live in their parents basements. And anyways, you need to do something outside of sitting in front of the computer. Although I'm not a "techie" in the traditional sense (I'm a GIS Specialist/CS major) I'll still sit in front of a computer for most of the day once I start working.

I for one like XC mountain biking (and may start Downhill next year once I get a hold of the proper safety gear), and I enjoy hiking, and camping and all that.

In short, everyone needs a hobby and it's not uncommon for "techies" to do interesting things. Case in point, one guy in my CS class did free running, and another was in the military. A girl in my math class was also an avid biker, biking something close to 20km a day (round trip) to get to/from class from her house, only during good weather though, during winter she drove or took public transit. It's not always sports though, it could be the stereotypical D&D and boardgames and such but they're still a break from the monotonous 9-5 grind. In fact, in my spare time I really like cooking and baking and have gotten pretty good at it.


----------



## love9sick

That is kind of a weird question. That is like asking, You like biking and playing the piano also? why the hell do you overclock and play video games?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13164813*
> In short, everyone needs a hobby and it's not uncommon for "techies" to do interesting things.


I'm fully aware of that. My hobbies involve paintball, competitive gaming, and tech in general, and yet I'm studing for areospace engineering. It was a question. I'm sorry if you think it is a stupid question.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


I'm fully aware of that. My hobbies involve paintball, competitive gaming, and tech in general, and yet I'm studing for areospace engineering. It was a question. I'm sorry if you think it is a stupid question.


I see. It was more of a "why do you do this" rather than a general blanket statement. Sorry I interpreted it the wrong way.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Hey JF, a bit of a personal question....

You're big in mountain biking and the outdoors as personal hobbies. What made you want to go work for AMD?


Definitely did not grow up rich, was working by 14 and putting in 40 hours a week from 16 on. Didn't have a car so I had to ride a bike everywhere. Including all winter in chicago. So the biking thing was always in me; didn't get my first car until I was out of college.

I started mountain biking for real when I got to Austin, it's the first place with real trails. Part of it is exercise, part of it is the fun and a large part of it is the beer and tacos with my friends after the ride.

My degree is in economics, which does not make me the typical computer nerd. Everything that I know came from hands-on experience, not from a classroom.

I spent ~15 years working for OEMs, on the server side. In my last gig I was the intel apologist. When someone came to our customer briefing center and said the word "opteron" my phone rang and I would drop whatever I was doing and go sit in to the customer to tell them why it was a bad idea. Every month it got harder and harder to dismiss AMD. I really wanted us to do Opteron servers, but the company held out.

A friend of mine was running the Opteron marketing and every quarter he would call me up and say "are you ready to come over yet." With 10 years under my belt at that company I was not in the mood to switch. But finally I had enough and went to work for him. 2 weeks later my old company signed the deal with AMD.

I have been much happier at AMD, completely different culture. And my buddy is still here too, he runs the whole Opteron business now.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


In my last gig I was the intel apologist.


AAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Intel fanboy in disguise!!!!

LOL







joke


----------



## ShiftedReality

So now everytime someone mentions Xeon, you have to tell them how its not such a good idea?


----------



## Domino

Bulldozer question. It sounds like, for the client/desktop type of things, it looks like the 8-core FX version is going to be released around 3.5 GHz while at a quite fair wattage. _I don't think that was official_, but it sounds like these chips are going to have a lot of headroom and performance to back it. Could we expect good scaling or headroom from overclocking these puppies? This has probably been asked hundreds of times already, sorry.

Are we also going to be seeing similar Phenom II conditions with the CPU-NB frequencies capping around 2800-3000 Mhz? Or will there be significantly better memory performance on these client chips where the setup will be able to handle 1866+ Mhz memory out of the box without an overclock?

Also, in server conditions. Are there any companies that overclock their servers?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13172102*
> Definitely did not grow up rich, was working by 14 and putting in 40 hours a week from 16 on. Didn't have a car so I had to ride a bike everywhere. Including all winter in chicago. So the biking thing was always in me; didn't get my first car until I was out of college.
> 
> I started mountain biking for real when I got to Austin, it's the first place with real trails. Part of it is exercise, part of it is the fun and a large part of it is the beer and tacos with my friends after the ride.


Sounds pretty cool and rather rough at the same time. We're quite fortunate these times when PC gaming is rather cheap compared to what it was back then. Let alone, the average income was probably much higher too. Biking in the winter, crazy.

Consoles were probably introduced when you were an adult eh?
Quote:


> My degree is in economics, which does not make me the typical computer nerd. Everything that I know came from hands-on experience, not from a classroom.


xD Ha, my math teacher started out the same way. She went into economics and got a degree in that, just to shift to mathematics and eventually go haywire on computers.
Quote:


> I spent ~15 years working for OEMs, on the server side. *In my last gig I was the intel apologist.* When someone came to our customer briefing center and said the word "opteron" my phone rang and I would drop whatever I was doing and go sit in to the customer to tell them why it was a bad idea. Every month it got harder and harder to dismiss AMD. I really wanted us to do Opteron servers, but the company held out.


BAHAHAHAhahahaha. What a twist.
Quote:


> A friend of mine was running the Opteron marketing and every quarter he would call me up and say "are you ready to come over yet." With 10 years under my belt at that company I was not in the mood to switch. But finally I had enough and went to work for him. 2 weeks later my old company signed the deal with AMD.
> 
> I have been much happier at AMD, completely different culture. And my buddy is still here too, he runs the whole Opteron business now.










Sounds awesome man. Pretty interesting how you came to AMD.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;13188435*
> Also, in server conditions. Are there any companies that overclock their servers?


That's an interesting question. Are there any? I wouldn't see much benefit in it unless it was something like a massive workload just got sent to it and it needs to do some "turbo-boost" thing for an hour or so to complete the workload.

I was under the impression that without virtualization most companies were only using something like 12% of the available processing power on their servers. (Granted that was one of those "pro virtualization" articles) however the 12% number (or something close to that) has been tossed around for why large companies should virtualize their infrastructure. For small businesses however virtualizing servers is something that's very hard to get a good ROI on ("small businesses" typically being defines as 1-10 employees).


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


That's an interesting question. Are there any? I wouldn't see much benefit in it unless it was something like a massive workload just got sent to it and it needs to do some "turbo-boost" thing for an hour or so to complete the workload.


I would think most big companies running server racks would be more concerned about cooling and power consumption. I wouldn't be surprised if these companies are willing to pay the price premium for low-power/energy-efficient processors. If there are any, then it's probably those running render farms or HPC or something.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;13191744*
> I would think most big companies running server racks would be more concerned about cooling and power consumption. I wouldn't be surprised if these companies are willing to pay the price premium for low-power/energy-efficient processors. If there are any, then it's probably those running render farms or HPC or something.


I guess. When you deal with hundreds of CPUs on an entire platform, dropping a few watts should yield thousands saved through the course of the year.


----------



## [email protected]

http://we.pcinlife.com/forum-viewthr...D1-page-1.html


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


I guess. When you deal with hundreds of CPUs on an entire platform, dropping a few watts should yield thousands saved through the course of the year.


With a large roomful of server racks, probably closer to hundreds of thousands (or even million). At the very least, the savings should be enough to justify the price premium on the more power efficient processors. TCO is probably based on 3~5 year life cycles.


----------



## dodger.blue

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Or will there be significantly better memory performance on these client chips where the setup will be able to handle 1866+ Mhz memory out of the box without an overclock?


I might be mistaken, but I believe I read on the interwebs that Bulldozer's internal memory controller _is_ 1866 as opposed to the standard 1333, if that helps answer your question.


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[email protected]*











http://we.pcinlife.com/forum-viewthr...D1-page-1.html


if thats true 1.4v at 2.7ghz and 1 core 1 thread? really?


----------



## hokiealumnus

CPUz is known to mess up readings for chips that it hasn't gotten data on yet. Even on some Gigabyte sandy bridge boards it displayed VCCIO voltage (IIRC...might have been another voltage) rather than Vcore early on in SB's life.

Not that I necessarily believe this is a bulldozer screenshot, but it's definitely a chip CPUz isn't familiar with.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Seems more believable than most. http://pic2.178.com/64/641528/month_...825d661c4f.jpg
Supposedly 6 cores at 1.4v which is worrying if not an error. The thing that makes me believe this is the fact Windows isn't activated.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knoxy_14*


if thats true 1.4v at 2.7ghz and 1 core 1 thread? really?


Apparently that's what happens with Engineering Samples or something. Not sure if it was this BD screenshot or a Llano one but apparently it reported wrong as well.

Also on the Zacate ES before it was released CPUz was reporting "2 processors" with 1 core and 1 thread each.


----------



## mark4d

will the IMC be more like the IMC in intel the intel one is faster by x2 rite now


----------



## Diabolical999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


will the IMC be more like the IMC in intel the intel one is faster by x2 rite now


Yes, the memory controller on Bulldozer will be superior to the one on Phenom II.


----------



## mark4d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diabolical999;13246085*
> Yes, the memory controller on Bulldozer will be superior to the one on Phenom II.


ok but that was not the question


----------



## mark4d

on maxxmem i get a score of 9.75gb amd but with intel i get 18gb same memory


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark4d;13246491*
> on maxxmem i get a score of 9.75gb amd but with intel i get 18gb same memory


Did you overclock the Northbrige? 2800Mhz is good for the X4 955BE,you should see improved scores with a higher NB frequency.
Intel CPUs have a higher memory bandwidth anyway.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diabolical999;13246085*
> Yes, the memory controller on Bulldozer will be superior to the one on Phenom II.


I wonder how the IMC will work with my gskill 1600 CL7 that I run at CL6

I don't think I had them run over 1680, at either CL, not sure if thats my CPU holding them back

But I don't know how DDR3 1600 generally OC anyway


----------



## purpleannex

The FX series supports 1866mhz ram, so providing you use the right motherboard (







), it shouldn't blink maxing your ram.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Apparently that's what happens with Engineering Samples or something. Not sure if it was this BD screenshot or a Llano one but apparently it reported wrong as well.

Also on the Zacate ES before it was released CPUz was reporting "2 processors" with 1 core and 1 thread each.


that ES model has 1GHz turbo ..


----------



## purpleannex

I hope BD can do a lot more than 1Ghz turbo, thuban will do that.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


I hope BD can do a lot more than 1Ghz turbo, thuban will do that.


does thuban have 1GHz turbo ? (on all cores ?)
_even 2600k has <1GHz turbo mode
_
_new turbo probably will work on stock volts._


----------



## IcyPimpHand

I don't know if this belongs here or not, but I've been wondering what has AMD been doing to keep Bulldozer from leaking out? I know there has been little leaks of CPUz' and stuff, but I'm talking about like big stuff. Like REAL benchmarks. I would think that something major would of leaked, but it hasn't(to my knowledge). Any thoughts?


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcyPimpHand;13267827*
> I don't know if this belongs here or not, but I've been wondering what has AMD been doing to keep Bulldozer from leaking out? I know there has been little leaks of CPUz' and stuff, but I'm talking about like big stuff. Like REAL benchmarks. I would think that something major would of leaked, but it hasn't(to my knowledge). Any thoughts?


That's cause JF-AMD has been doing his job properly (or at least that what he says).

Sounds like the NDA's are water tight and ES chips were distributed to a very limited number of people who need to know/have it. I doubt we're going to get any leaks until they want the benchmarks to drop.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


does thuban have 1GHz turbo ? (on all cores ?)
_even 2600k has <1GHz turbo mode
_
_new turbo probably will work on stock volts._


1090T has 400mhz on 3 cores.

But you can set your own turbo ratio, it will do 1Ghz on stock vcore. So i'd expect an overclock tweaked BD to exceed that.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


1090T has 400mhz on 3 cores.

But you can set your own turbo ratio, it will do 1Ghz on stock vcore. So i'd expect an overclock tweaked BD to exceed that.


True,I set my turbo core to 3900Mhz yesterday,though only long enough to test Linx.
3400Mhz cpu/3900mhz turbo/2800Mhz NB. 63 G/flops peak.


----------



## pietro sk

turbo on thuban is simple - to activate it 3 cores must be idle. (it does not measure anything, only based on this logic)
no chance that thuban will activate turbo when all cores are up.

but dozer ...


----------



## purpleannex

Yeah we know it's different, the point was about how much extra head room you'd have, especially with the die shrink.

I think we're on the same wavelength.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Is this a real photo?


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4*


Is this a real photo?










It is. The frequency that its clocked at though, from what I can tell, is 2.6ghz.


----------



## purpleannex

Huh?

A real photo of what? I can't read anything on it, what's it supposed to be?


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Huh?

A real photo of what? I can't read anything on it, what's it supposed to be?



Its of a 6 core Zambezi engineering sample. You have to zoom in to see it. You actually don't want it to be real lol. The results of it are horrendous.


----------



## Pedros

Yeah, being benched at the 4x200 ... so... at idle ...


----------



## crossy82

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


Its of a 6 core Zambezi engineering sample. You have to zoom in to see it. You actually don't want it to be real lol. The results of it are horrendous.


I dont believe it personally.It does'nt add up properly.Lol,Intel probably made this crap.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *informal*

Well the scores are done at 800Mhz or whatever clock idle is in Zambezi's case. 4x800Mhz or 4x2.86pts fits perfectly with almost 11pts for top end X8 leaked by Donanimhaber 2 months ago.


I think AMD is being to secretive. I hope they release this sometime before never.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Pedros*


Yeah, being benched at the 4x200 ... so... at idle ...










Yea i just read that at another forum. A bug is making it run at idle. So we can expect a very solid score it seems. Everything looking good for AMD.

EDIT: If you do the math, this is a 6 core Zambezi. If it can run at 4.1ghz it would receive a score of 14.35. The 8 core would receive an even higher score running at the same speed.

Interesting stuff.


----------



## gregory121295

by my math (windows calc ftw!) an 8 core 'dozer @4.1 would score ~19.13. Hopefully Bulldozer will also have more overclocking headroom, as it is on 32 nm scale now vs 45 nm. However, 19.13 seems a little too high, I'm expecting closer to 10.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


Yea i just read that at another forum. A bug is making it run at idle. So we can expect a very solid score it seems. Everything looking good for AMD.

EDIT: If you do the math, this is a 6 core Zambezi. If it can run at 4.1ghz it would receive a score of 14.35. The 8 core would receive an even higher score running at the same speed.

Interesting stuff.


Maybe it wasn't a bug, and just a limit to keep ES chips from being used for purposes other than hardware design. All I hope is the mass produced versions are right.


----------



## pietro sk

early ES chips are buggy - nothing unexpected, move along


----------



## Pedros

Oba Oba... i love this "what's behind wall nr 8 ... " discussion


----------



## hks85

dont know if it was already posted but here it is anyway...
3.1Ghz (4.1 turbo)
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/4/26/amds-fx-bulldozer-cpu-clock-speeds-revealed.aspx


----------



## purpleannex

Yeah that's been seen here many times. It's from the same Chinese forum that posted fake Cinebenchs as factual, so that means I take anything from there with a pinch of salt.


----------



## hks85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13302700*
> Yeah that's been seen here many times. It's from the same Chinese forum that posted fake Cinebenchs as factual, so that means I take anything from there with a pinch of salt.


lame... I was a little worred when I could only find one news site posting those numbers


----------



## Tweeky

The only improvement you will see in BD is like the improvement you saw that the 6 core Thuban had over the 4 core Deneb. If AMD and motherboard manufactures do not lay out the 990FX chipset the BD will be of little value. For without the 990FX chipset there cannot be BD!

The only thing you people will see in June is one delay after another. Come on now you people know how chip makers operate. The 990FX chipset has already been delayed!

If BD could compete with Intels high performance CPU then will it not cost as much as a high performance Intel chips?


----------



## andos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13356167*
> The only improvement you will see in BD is like the improvement you saw that the 6 core Thuban had over the 4 core Deneb. If AMD and motherboard manufactures do not lay out the 990FX chipset the BD will be of little value. For without the 990FX chipset there cannot be BD!
> 
> The only thing you people will see in June is one delay after another. Come on now you people know how chip makers operate. The 990FX chipset has already been delayed!
> 
> If BD could compete with Intels high performance CPU then will it not cost as much as a high performance Intel chips?


990FX are to be shown at Computex.

Don't you worry, everything is on track, trust me


----------



## Tweeky

The 990FX was to be shown at CeBIT 2011 that was the 1st. delay.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


The 990FX was to be shown at CeBIT 2011 that was the 1st. delay.


Conclusions based off of rumor. Got to love the Internet.


----------



## Amor

AMD Llano, Bulldozer, and 900 series chipset release confirmed:

http://wccftech.com/2011/05/03/amd-b...admap-release/

So that's the roadmap but one thing bothers me in that it doesn't really look like an official AMD roadmap...

But aside from that looks like they'll be announcing stuff about the Llano and launching the 900 series at Computex, do some stuff at E3 and then more stuff at an AMD Development summit then launch their BD client/consumer chips on Jun 14th.


----------



## purpleannex

Yeah we've seen that in the news section, but since this is the Bulldozer blog i'm waiting for offiicial confirmation here, or from AMD's website.

TBH, launch date give or take a couple of weeks doesn't bother me, I want to see some benches!


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


The only improvement you will see in BD is like the improvement you saw that the 6 core Thuban had over the 4 core Deneb.


you say BD will be weak processor.. do you have* any proof *for that ?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


you say BD will be weak processor.. do you have* any proof *for that ?


Agreed. 
It's great how some are already jumping to conclusions and saying BD is "weak",when they have no solid proof.


----------



## whiteslashasian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Agreed. 
It's great how some are already jumping to conclusions and saying BD is "weak",when they have no solid proof.


Speculation, hopes, wishes, and vitriol runs rampant in every Bulldozer thread...

People need to relax for a while (catch up on yard work or hit the gym) and just wait for it to be officially released with proper benchmarks from reputable sources, then we can start the praise and/or bashing.


----------



## Biokinetica

Somebody want to catch me up on what's so great about this architecture? This thread seems to be filled with weeks worth of "OMG SOCKET" foolishness.


----------



## Mit Namso

Show me the BENCHES

Show me the BENCHES


----------



## Zackcy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


Show me the BENCHES

Show me the BENCHES


Go into JF-AMD's room @ night and scream it in his ear







.


----------



## JF-AMD

first you have to find out which country I am in, and hurry, I fly to a different one at 5:00 tonight


----------



## Moparman

Wish Amd would come on with BD.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


first you have to find out which country I am in, and hurry, I fly to a different one at 5:00 tonight










We'll ask the Pakistan government where you are....

oh hang on, that wouldn't work...


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


first you have to find out which country I am in, and hurry, I fly to a different one at 5:00 tonight










Just wondering.... Do you have one of those Million mile frequent flier memberships like George Clooneys character in Up In The Air?


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13367021*
> Show me the BENCHES
> 
> Show me the BENCHES


You want benches? Here's one.

Here's another.

They're unreliable though but seem to be realistic. Looks like the Llano A8 and A6 will be weaker than the i3-2100 in CPU performance but dominate it in GPU performance (which is obvious). Like I said, I'm predicting it to be a great contender for OEM's to make entry level systems for businesses and regular consumers like your mom, grandparents, girlfriends who don't game etc.

I think AMD has a great chip right there for sweeping the consumer market and should take a large chunk of the prebuilt market. On the enthusiast and server side, AMD servers should be a good choice for companies to virtualize with and at least they have something that will let them catch up for the performance crown for enthusiasts to swoon over.

PS: I'm sure as we all know Intel HD3000 GMA is a joke and who would ever use onboard graphics on an enthusiast chip like the SB.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13376507*
> They're unreliable though but seem to be realistic. Looks like the Llano A8 and A6 will be weaker than the i3-2100 in CPU performance but dominate it in GPU performance (which is obvious). Like I said, I'm predicting it to be a great contender for OEM's to make entry level systems for businesses and regular consumers like your mom, grandparents, girlfriends who don't game etc.
> 
> I think AMD has a great chip right there for sweeping the consumer market and should take a large chunk of the prebuilt market.


Well, both the A8 and A6 feature what's basically a tweaked Athlon II X4 die-shrink. It's to be expected that it falls behind the Sandy Bridge dual-core CPU in tasks that aren't heavily threaded.

The potential biggest win here is the mobile space. The integrated GPU on Llano is fast enough for casual gaming. If you're fine not playing at very high resolutions with the highest settings, Llano's pretty great. It would bring a relatively decent gaming experience even with an inexpensive desktop or a mainstream laptop.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Just wondering.... Do you have one of those Million mile frequent flier memberships like George Clooneys character in Up In The Air?


I saw that movie...on a plane.

I do ~150K a year minimum. Right now I am sitting in a hotel room in paris, country 2 of 5 in only 2 weeks time. If anyone knows a good place for a beer in edinbrough, let me know









I have ~1.8M miles right now, the goal is to get to 2M, one more year, then I don't need to travel any more.

Oh, and all of the benchmarks that you are seeing popping up - those don't matter, they are not really representative of the performance.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I saw that movie...on a plane.

I do ~150K a year minimum. Right now I am sitting in a hotel room in paris, country 2 of 5 in only 2 weeks time. If anyone knows a good place for a beer in edinbrough, let me know









I have ~1.8M miles right now, the goal is to get to 2M, one more year, then I don't need to travel any more.

Oh, and all of the benchmarks that you are seeing popping up - those don't matter, they are not really representative of the performance.


If you're saying that Bulldozer performs even better, I am really impressed. Matching the 2600k core for core was more than enough for me.


----------



## Stilldawn

Wanna flick some air miles my way JF? lol.


----------



## Blueduck3285

To me, I dont care where it stands as far as Intel is concerned. I like AMD because its price is better, it preformes well, and does what I need it to do. Intel gets the finger from me just for being like an overpriced clothing line, yeah it looks good, but what are you really paying for. Bad analogy I know but its what came to mind.

I would just like to see BD in my rig, with a new mobo, so I can see how much of a hurting I can put on it.


----------



## JF-AMD

Here's the question to ask yourself: What would the world look like without competition?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here's the question to ask yourself: What would the world look like without competition?


It would be horrible without competition, I just want to see the right order of things.

AMD more than deserves the top spot, Intel's had it long enough and the path they took to get there is shady at best.


----------



## Blueduck3285

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here's the question to ask yourself: What would the world look like without competition?


Grey. But Im am just not concerned with Intel anymore. I had an intel lappy and I just want BD because, well I love new tech.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I saw that movie...on a plane.

I do ~150K a year minimum. Right now I am sitting in a hotel room in paris, country 2 of 5 in only 2 weeks time. If anyone knows a good place for a beer in edinbrough, let me know









I have ~1.8M miles right now, the goal is to get to 2M, one more year, then I don't need to travel any more.

*Oh, and all of the benchmarks that you are seeing popping up - those don't matter, they are not really representative of the performance*.


...hhmmm... Thats not the usual denial of their authenticity...


----------



## gregory121295

I agree, this last month is going to be a nightmare, especially after hearing the news about Intel's 3d transistor design. By the way(if you're allowed to talk about it)...Is AMD also working on 3d transistor tech?


----------



## Crivens

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


...hhmmm... Thats not the usual denial of their authenticity...


"we cannot comment on our denial at this time"

>.> had to sign up for that reply.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13384118*
> ...hhmmm... Thats not the usual denial of their authenticity...


I have no idea what is real and what is not. When benchmarks appeared and silicon was only at the hands of a few partners, it was real easy to say that they are not real.

Now, it becomes far more likely that someone has silicon in their hands.

Knowing that there are multiple rounds of silicon and that the earliest stuff out there is always the slowest (early stuff focuses on low speed so that you get better yield and more parts to work with), it is always possible that someone has some old parts.

But my guess is, from seeing all the fake crap out there, that most, if not all, of it is not real, but as you get closer to launch, it is more likely that something real is going to show up.

But until you get to production level silicon with the right BIOS and the right software optimizations, you don't get an accurate understanding of the performance.

In addition, you need someone who knows what they are doing. If I ran benchmarks on a bulldozer I would get lower performance than the experts because I don't spend any time benchmarking so I would not know what I am doing.

This is why I always say wait for launch. Do you want results now or do you want the best performance? You can get either, you just can't get both.


----------



## Blueduck3285

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13387835*
> I have no idea what is real and what is not. When benchmarks appeared and silicon was only at the hands of a few partners, it was real easy to say that they are not real.
> 
> Now, it becomes far more likely that someone has silicon in their hands.
> 
> Knowing that there are multiple rounds of silicon and that the earliest stuff out there is always the slowest (early stuff focuses on low speed so that you get better yield and more parts to work with), it is always possible that someone has some old parts.
> 
> But my guess is, from seeing all the fake crap out there, that most, if not all, of it is not real, but as you get closer to launch, it is more likely that something real is going to show up.
> 
> But until you get to production level silicon with the right BIOS and the right software optimizations, you don't get an accurate understanding of the performance.
> 
> In addition, you need someone who knows what they are doing. If I ran benchmarks on a bulldozer I would get lower performance than the experts because I don't spend any time benchmarking so I would not know what I am doing.
> 
> This is why I always say wait for launch. Do you want results now or do you want the best performance? You can get either, you just can't get both.


This is why I don't look at comparisons, at least not entirely and certainly not before launch. In the end, I just look at what works for me. My x6 as proven to be able to take anything I throw at it and more. I may grab BD later in the game but again, my x6 does it all.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13382738*
> If anyone knows a good place for a beer in edinbrough, let me know


Edinburgh not so much but if you make it to Canterbury in the South East I could hook you up (clubs, probably not your thing, but as far as real English pubs go I can get a map of all of them overlayed on top of the British Ordinance Survey map I am a Geographer after all and we actually mapped the locations of pubs in the city for a GIS project) . And it would be pretty cool to meet the AMD server marketing director too.

EDIT: A world without competition.... Well in that case Air Canada would have crappier service and still be able to keep afloat, I'd be paying significantly more for bike parts, cellphones would be cost prohibitive to 99% of the Canadian population, we'd still be using 1G or 2G GSM, and cartels and price fixing would generally run rampant.


----------



## purpleannex

Don't worry JF, it was just my cynical mind clutching at straws for any titbits...

(and yes, that is is titbits)


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13388214*
> Edinburgh not so much but if you make it to Canterbury in the South East I could hook you up (clubs, probably not your thing, but as far as real English pubs go I can get a map of all of them overlayed on top of the British Ordinance Survey map I am a Geographer after all and we actually mapped the locations of pubs in the city for a GIS project) . And it would be pretty cool to meet the AMD server marketing director too.


Yeah i'm sure he'll pop down for a beer, it's only 471 miles and an 8hr drive! He could get a hire car...

























You don't need a map to find pubs in Britain, they tend to be older buildings (400-600yrs old) with big signs out side.


----------



## JF-AMD

Well I will be in london on sunday-tuesday, but I have plans for most of my time. Lots of friends in the city, but unfortunately too small of a bag to carry biking clothes with me. 2 weeks in Europe in a carry-on bag sucks, but it is possible.


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13388269*
> Yeah i'm sure he'll pop down for a beer, it's only 471 miles and an 8hr drive! He could get a hire car...


Considering that Canadians will drive 3 hours (6 hours round trip, it's *only* 400km round trip) to watch a 60 minute hockey game.... Also there's a pretty big car culture in America isn't there so I assumed that people wouldn't have a problem driving everywhere (ie. look at the drive in churches, drive through ATM's, trend of big box stores being located at the periphery of a city etc.).

I know 2 weeks in a carry-on is totally doable. I flew Ryanair to Germany for a ski trip during Christmas and that was for ~3 weeks (but that said I was wearing all 3 of my jackets, my snowtrousers and all that).


----------



## purpleannex

Yeah people here drive 300 miles to watch football, but the difference is that game will only be played there, in that city / town. Where as you'd have trouble driving 5 miles, even in the most rural location in Britain, without seeing a pub.

Anyway, I was only pulling your leg, relax.

Back in '98 I went on holiday for two weeks in Las Vegas and Los Angeles. All I took was one pair of shorts and a couple of t-shirts, I didn't own anything else that wasn't full of holes, I came back with a completely full suitcase! LOL

Oh yeah the other thing about driving from Edinburgh to Canterbury is the cost, you're looking at a £180 ($300) round trip, that's a very expensive beer!


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13381298*


Stop hitting yourself in the face.


----------



## love9sick

I want this CPU already. I'm keeping my current one alive barely on life support.


----------



## werds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13387835*
> This is why I always say wait for launch. Do you want results now or do you want the best performance? You can get either, you just can't get both.


All I want is decent comparison! Something to let me know if I should spend my money on a i7 970 or 980x or wait out a Bulldozer build (strictly based on folding and total budget expenditure) At this point I have counted SB as not in the equation with it's current iterations


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *werds;13398279*
> All I want is decent comparison! Something to let me know if I should spend my money on a i7 970 or 980x or wait out a Bulldozer build (strictly based on folding and total budget expenditure) At this point I have counted SB as not in the equation with it's current iterations


I'd think the answer to that would probably be Bulldozer, at least looking at points/$.


----------



## werds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;13398302*
> I'd think the answer to that would probably be Bulldozer, at least looking at points/$.


That's my hope but with BD I will have to account for a full system purchase, the i7 6 core would only be a processor upgrade







I am rooting for BD atm though just frustrated with not having any good info to lean on!


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *werds;13398376*
> That's my hope but with BD I will have to account for a full system purchase, the i7 6 core would only be a processor upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am rooting for BD atm though just frustrated with not having any good info to lean on!


In that case, know anyone that works for Best Buy, etc? I think you can get Gulftown for less than $300 from Retail Edge.


----------



## JF-AMD

One thing you will never see me do is tell you what to buy. I don't want to be responsible for your purchase.

You should wait until all of the information is available and then make your decision. What if I give you some of the data and you make the wrong choice? I don't want that hanging over my head.

I get about 5 "what should I buy" emails/PMs a day and I answer them all the same way. I work with customers and I make purchase recommendations all the time, but I spend an hour or more going over their workloads, understanding how their applications act and what their needs are. I don't know the desktop world, so I steer clear of trying to guess in those places.


----------



## selectstriker2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna*


In that case, know anyone that works for Best Buy, etc? I think you can get Gulftown for less than $300 from Retail Edge.


I'm looking to buy a new setup in June, hopefully we'll see some legit benchies for BD otherwise ill go with a new SB setup through Intel Retail Edge


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


One thing you will never see me do is tell you what to buy. I don't want to be responsible for your purchase.

You should wait until all of the information is available and then make your decision. What if I give you some of the data and you make the wrong choice? I don't want that hanging over my head.

I get about 5 "what should I buy" emails/PMs a day and I answer them all the same way. I work with customers and I make purchase recommendations all the time, but I spend an hour or more going over their workloads, understanding how their applications act and what their needs are. I don't know the desktop world, so I steer clear of trying to guess in those places.


I have a question for you. Why haven't you filled out your system specs?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I have a question for you. Why haven't you filled out your system specs?


Because he doesn't want us to know that his personal machine has 4 Bulldozer based Opteron's in it and 1 TB of RAM.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Because he doesn't want us to know that his personal machine has 4 Bulldozer based Opteron's in it and 1 TB of RAM.










Lucky son of a........


----------



## werds

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna*


In that case, know anyone that works for Best Buy, etc? I think you can get Gulftown for less than $300 from Retail Edge.


I wish I knew someone who worked retail but I don't


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I have a question for you. Why haven't you filled out your system specs?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Because he doesn't want us to know that his personal machine has 4 Bulldozer based Opteron's in it and 1 TB of RAM.











Maybe he's got an i7 system and he doesn't want to get fired from AMD.









lol I'm just joking.









Or maybe he's got some 32 core Bulldozer which won't be released until 2016


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kcuestag*


Or maybe he's got some 32 core Bulldozer which won't be released until 2016










I'd suspect it's more like an 8P 32 core BD Opteron in a 128 blade rack, with 8TB of RAM cooled using liquid Helium. That would be like an entire data centres computing power in a single rack. And you could do a lot of virtualization with one of those....


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kcuestag*


Maybe he's got an i7 system and he doesn't want to get fired from AMD.










Worse, perhaps he's got a MacBook Pro. The horror!









Seriously, with all the traveling he does, he's bound to be using a laptop quite often.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;13404444*
> I have a question for you. Why haven't you filled out your system specs?


Because it is "system" not "systems"

At home I have:

Workstation: Opteron 1389 in a GB board
Home Server #1: Sempron in an HP MediaSmart server
Home Server #2: Brazos 350 in a GB board
Media PC: Phenom quad core in a GB board
Misc. PC: Athlon 5200 in a GB board
Home NB#1: Turion Neo K625
Home NB#2: Turion Neo K625
Work NB: Turion Neo K625
Wife's work NB: No comment

Then there are 2 NAS devices, 2 print servers, 3 networked TiVos and 1 networked Wii.

Then there is the stack of processors on my shelf as well.

I don't have any bulldozers *yet*. When I do I am looking for an 8-core Opteron 4200 EE (35W). But I have spent so much time on the road that I don't really build systems much these days. Sitting in a hotel room in scotland, the third city of the 5 I will visit in these 2 weeks.

If you live in edinburgh, let me know, I will buy you a pint tomorrow


----------



## Console-hater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13407725*
> Because it is "system" not "systems"
> 
> At home I have:
> 
> Workstation: Opteron 1389 in a GB board
> Home Server #1: Sempron in an HP MediaSmart server
> Home Server #2: Brazos 350 in a GB board
> Media PC: Phenom quad core in a GB board
> Misc. PC: Athlon 5200 in a GB board
> Home NB#1: Turion Neo K625
> Home NB#2: Turion Neo K625
> Work NB: Turion Neo K625
> Wife's work NB: No comment
> 
> Then there are 2 NAS devices, 2 print servers, 3 networked TiVos and 1 networked Wii.
> 
> Then there is the stack of processors on my shelf as well.
> 
> I don't have any bulldozers *yet*. When I do I am looking for an 8-core Opteron 4200 EE (35W). But I have spent so much time on the road that I don't really build systems much these days. Sitting in a hotel room in scotland, the third city of the 5 I will visit in these 2 weeks.
> 
> If you live in edinburgh, let me know, I will buy you a pint tomorrow


Meti lives somewhere in Scotland, he's quite popular person in OT subsection.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13407725*
> Because it is "system" not "systems"
> 
> At home I have:
> 
> Workstation: Opteron 1389 in a GB board
> Home Server #1: Sempron in an HP MediaSmart server
> Home Server #2: Brazos 350 in a GB board
> Media PC: Phenom quad core in a GB board
> Misc. PC: Athlon 5200 in a GB board
> Home NB#1: Turion Neo K625
> Home NB#2: Turion Neo K625
> Work NB: Turion Neo K625
> Wife's work NB: No comment
> 
> Then there are 2 NAS devices, 2 print servers, 3 networked TiVos and 1 networked Wii.
> 
> Then there is the stack of processors on my shelf as well.
> 
> I don't have any bulldozers *yet*. When I do I am looking for an 8-core Opteron 4200 EE (35W). But I have spent so much time on the road that I don't really build systems much these days. Sitting in a hotel room in scotland, the third city of the 5 I will visit in these 2 weeks.
> 
> If you live in edinburgh, let me know, I will buy you a pint tomorrow


I noticed the *yet* there, which leads me to another question. With your position, do you get early access to unreleased chips, or do you have to wait for launch?

I wish I lived in Edinburgh, you would be a very interesting person to meet.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;13408514*
> 
> I wish I lived in Edinburgh.


No, you don't wish you lived in Edinburgh. Have you ever been?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13408808*
> No, you don't wish you lived in Edinburgh. Have you ever been?


Unfortunately, I've never left the States. Someday though.

What's wrong with Edinburgh?


----------



## purpleannex

The city centres ok, but the outskirts are rather meh.

But the worst part is the weather. Britains not great for weather, and it just gets worse the further north you go.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I noticed the *yet* there, which leads me to another question. With your position, do you get early access to unreleased chips, or do you have to wait for launch?

I wish I lived in Edinburgh, you would be a very interesting person to meet.


Obviously I can get access to parts if I want them, but I would never take parts away from validation or qualification, so I would have access to older steppings if I wanted them.

But there are 2 big issues:

1. What do I plug them into? Need a platform to run them
2. When would I do this? I am really pressed for time. I am in europe for 2 weeks for training our sales teams, then in the states for a week in CA and a week in boston, then back to europe for 2 weeks for (finally) a vacation. time is more precious than anything, so when I have free time, I want to be on my bike.

Pretty sure I could walk down the aisle and get a valencia from the product manager and get a BIOS from our enablement team so I could build a system, but I just have so many other things on my plate that I can't really spend the time doing that. I am guessing Q4 is a good time to build one after all of the launches are over, the product is ramping and I can finally kick back with a beer and build a system.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am guessing Q4 is a good time to build one after all of the launches are over, the product is ramping and I can finally kick back with a beer and build a system.


Shouldn't you be getting ready for enhanced Bulldozer then?

...no rest for the wicked....


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13409116*
> The city centres ok, but the outskirts are rather meh.
> 
> But the worst part is the weather. Britains not great for weather, and it just gets worse the further north you go.


and when the gulf stream moves you guys are going to be more frozen than greenland.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13407725*
> Workstation: Opteron 1389 in a GB board
> 
> When I do I am looking for an 8-core Opteron 4200 EE (35W).


1- that new 4200 EE series will replace your "old" 1389, i suppose
2- will Opterons produced in new "SuperEE" consumption class ? _(<) 20W
_


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13426207*
> 1- that new 4200 EE series will replace your "old" 1389, i suppose
> 2- will Opterons produced in new "SuperEE" consumption class ? _(<) 20W
> _


1. Yes. But the 1389 might live on in another aoplication server. Have some thoughts about that, just not a lot of time.

2. We already have a host of special parts available that are "off roadmap" for our current customers. We have had some customers that want custom TDPs so that they can manage to a power budget and fill every slot in the rack with servers.

When we introduce Bulldozer we will have TDP capping, so that customers can set their own TDP (lower, not higher) and the processor will run at the highest clock speed within that TDP range. For instance, if you have a 35W EE part and you are regularly drawing only 15-20W per processor in power, you could make your own super EE part at 20W and still be running at base frequency. It all depends on the your workload.

My workloads are real lightweight, so a 20W TDP is probably where I will set mine.


----------



## Tator Tot

That is probably one of the best features from AMD I've seen yet.

I think it was Foxconn on the Quatum Force Destoryer board; but they had Software that would "guestimate" (it might have been a bit better than that) your "actual TDP" (as in how much of your TDP was really being used.)

Most of the time, it was always below the listed number (IE, 95w TDP parts running in the 50-65w range)


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13426422*
> 1. Yes. But the 1389 might live on in another aoplication server. Have some thoughts about that, just not a lot of time.
> 
> 2. We already have a host of special parts available that are "off roadmap" for our current customers. We have had some customers that want custom TDPs so that they can manage to a power budget and fill every slot in the rack with servers.
> 
> When we introduce Bulldozer we will have TDP capping, so that customers can set their own TDP (lower, not higher) and the processor will run at the highest clock speed within that TDP range. For instance, if you have a 35W EE part and you are regularly drawing only 15-20W per processor in power, you could make your own super EE part at 20W and still be running at base frequency. It all depends on the your workload.
> 
> My workloads are real lightweight, so a 20W TDP is probably where I will set mine.


Sounds great for servers, but I feel a lot of people on this site would want the opposite for the purpose of overclocking w/ turboCORE. Though, I completely understand you not having the details on what the desktop guys are planning.


----------



## Poweredbysushi

I really hope Bulldozer matches up well against the competition so the situation looks just like in the GPU market.


----------



## Tonza

Meh, i have heard in many sites some rumors that the top models from bulldozer are going to get delayed? like 4 weeks till "release" and we dont have even single reliable benchmark from this urban legend called Bulldozer.


----------



## purpleannex

Ha hahaha ahahahahah aahahahahahaha a aha!


----------



## onoz

I wonder how well the Bulldozer CPUs will fold...?


----------



## narmour

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tonza*


Meh, i have heard in many sites some rumors that the top models from bulldozer are going to get delayed? like 4 weeks till "release" and we dont have even single reliable benchmark from this urban legend called Bulldozer.


AMD has kept very quiet, and it's a bit strange if you ask me. It's almost as if they are keeping their cards close to their chest, maybe they are trying to compete against the upcoming Ivy Bridge?

I don't know, hard to say. I think this year will be very exciting though!


----------



## Amor

Interesting development straight from AMD's website. Looks like Llano will get coreboot support, doesn't mention BD though (although the Opteron BD's will get it). I guess this is a win for *nix enthusiasts around the world. No real benefit for gamers here (since they need some legacy BIOS stuff) but it's an interesting path that AMD is taking.

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/05/05/an-update-on-coreboot/

Straight from the blog:
Quote:


> AMD Embedded Solutions has gained a great appreciation for the value of coreboot to our ecosystem and continues to build momentum by adding support for our existing products, adding new features, and introducing a roadmap for support going forward.
> 
> AMD recently released coreboot for the AMD Opteron™ 4100 Series processors (the C32 socket) along with support for the SR5600 series of chipsets. In addition, AMD is working on completing the final piece of support for our AMD Opteron processor family and is planning on releasing coreboot support for the AMD Opteron 6100 Series (the G34 socket) in the not too distant future. AMD is also in the final process of releasing support for the AMD 785E/SB8xx (SB820M and SB850) chipsets. Once these are released, all current embedded processors and chipsets in production will have support in the coreboot community. Each of these releases will be targeted at the following platforms: SuperMicro MBD-H8SCM-F-O for the 4100/SR56x0/SP5100, SuperMicro H8QGI-G34 for the 6100/SR56x0/SP5100 and Advansus (Advantech) A785E- I (w/1.7GHz dual-core) for the AMD 785E/SB8xx.
> 
> In addition to basic boot support and initialization for our platforms, AMD is working on adding support for new coreboot features including Power Management, Boot to Windows and others for the AMD Embedded G-Series APUs. On the power management front, the most important feature is enabling the APU to enter and exit S3 (save to RAM) in an efficient and reliable manner. S3 is critical for power-sensitive applications like industrial tablets, set top boxes and other appliances that require long battery life or have long periods of time where the APU is inactive. In the latter case, enabling the system to enter S3 greatly enhances the "green" value of the solution. Another area that AMD Embedded is working to enable is support of coreboot and Windows Embedded operating system support. By enabling coreboot to work with Windows 7 Embedded, it increases the overall value of the solution by providing a fast boot path into the OS that will be very useful in many embedded appliances like set-top boxes, digital signage, POS, kiosks, and others.
> 
> Finally, AMD is now committed to support coreboot for all future products on the roadmap starting next with support for the upcoming "Llano" APU. AMD has come to realize that coreboot is useful in a myriad of applications and markets, even beyond what was originally considered. Consequently, AMD plans to continue building its support of coreboot in both features and roadmap for the foreseeable future. Couple that with the efforts of such partners as Sage Electronics who has developed a sophisticated IDE system and engagements with leading RTOS partners in the industry, AMD is greatly enhancing its story in the deeply embedded market.
> 
> Kevin Tanguay is a senior product marketing manager for AMD Embedded Solutions. His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD's positions, strategies or opinions. Links to third party sites are provided for convenience and unless explicitly stated, AMD is not responsible for the contents of such linked sites and no endorsement is implied.


----------



## svthomas

I realllllly wish there were benchmarks out, this waiting and not knowing is killing me! I want to upgrade my rig already, but don't want to so close to a new AMD release







I hope the days of AMD are coming back!


----------



## Canis-X

Whatever they do, if they can come out with brand new arch and the MoBo chipset has no issues, IMO, they are golden. The bonus for me will be how close in performance they are to Intel's.

I really hope that it is neck and neck.....Love to compete on an even stage with the Intel counterparts, where it's more of a how good are you at OCing over what manufacturer you went with.

...On a side note, I asked for straight $$ for Christmas last year so that I could save it for my upgrade to BD.....so I got no presents (other than the cash)....I really hope that I shouldn't have asked for a nice blender instead......LOL


----------



## pale_neon

There should be an official countdown clock to Bulldozer's release.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;13457825*
> There should be an official countdown clock to Bulldozer's release.


Probably will be when there is an official release date.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svthomas;13453917*
> I realllllly wish there were benchmarks out, this waiting and not knowing is killing me! I want to upgrade my rig already, but don't want to so close to a new AMD release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the days of AMD are coming back!


I hope its not a sign of being delayed past the rumors of June

But then again, I haven't saved any money yet anyways...but sure can't wait to see some benches


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;13457879*
> Probably will be when there is an official release date.


june 11th i lost the post that said it


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knoxy_14*


june 11th i lost the post that said it


There's going to be announcements at Computex and E3 I know that (900 series chipset official launch and some other announcements). Then there's a developmers summit in Seattle about Fusion so only really applies to Llano and Zacate/Ontario. As for BD and Llano, I understood the client chips were getting released on the 20th of June with the server chips released in Q4/11 or possibly Q1/12. But that's just scuttlebutt, for sure we'll see some interesting things at Computex and E3 (but probably not so much E3).


----------



## Canis-X

June 11th just happens to be my birthday!! Ohhhhhh.....what a nice present to have AMD release BD on that day!!









JF....I can PM you my address if you wanted to get me a B-Day present!! LOL


----------



## Tweeky

Bulldozer has been moved back to June 20 now?

FX-series
"Zambezi" FX8000-series (?, 32 nm SOI, Octa-core)
A native octa-core (four modules) die design with no disabled cores.
All models support: SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, AVX, XOP, FMA4, CVT16 and Turbo Core.
Memory support: DDR3 SDRAM up to PC3-14900 (DDR3-1866 MHz)

Model Number FX-8130P[2]
Step.
Freq.
Cache 8MB
HT 3.2 GHz
Multi1
Voltage
TDP 125W
Socket AM3+
Release Date June 20th, 2011
Part Number
Nominal
Max
L2
L3


----------



## JCPUser

I think the launch event date, 6/7, is different from the public release date, 6/20.


----------



## godofdeath

any mention on the max cores/threads on these cpus?


----------



## maple_leafs182

I hope bulldozer is as good or close to as good as 2500k in performance. I would rather buy a 6 core then a 4 core.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


any mention on the max cores/threads on these cpus?


Pretty sure there's one thread per core, with a max of 8 cores. So, 8 "strong threads" as the Bulldozer slides say.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


any mention on the max cores/threads on these cpus?


Ever thought about reading a thread from the beginning?


----------



## Newbie2009

If it's out in a month, why no benchmarks yet? Or pricing?


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


because its not out ina month maybe 2 and a half


Funny, where did you get that golden nugget of info?

AMD has been saying since at least October last year that the FX's will be released in Q2 2011. Until they change that statement i'll take their word over that over some pleb on the internet.


----------



## Moparman

Hope its out soon im sick of my 1090T.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


because its not out ina month maybe 2 and a half


They have an official timeline out right now. Lots of stuff happening in June. Announcements about the BD and Llano, official 900-series chipset launch/release at Computex. Some more stuff at E3, then an AMD developers summit about Fusion stuff in Seattle.

There's also a few places saying June 20th release for client chips. Server chips coming in Q3/11.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Asus11*


don't get mad because AMD are slow. take a deep Breath relax, maybe bulldozer when released can be comparable to a i7 965, hopfully that will cheer you up


What makes you think i'm angry?

So, can you tell us where your source of knowledge comes from Vis-Ã*-vis FX release dates? If you have definitive information, please, share it with all of us, we'd all like to know, that's why we're here.

Truth is you're hoping the FX's are delayed because they'll make your 980x purchase look even more rediculous than it already does since Sandy Bridge was released


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Bulldozer has been moved back to June 20 now?

FX-series
"Zambezi" FX8000-series (?, 32 nm SOI, Octa-core)
A native octa-core (four modules) die design with no disabled cores.
All models support: SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, AVX, XOP, FMA4, CVT16 and Turbo Core.
Memory support: DDR3 SDRAM up to PC3-14900 (DDR3-1866 MHz)

Model Number FX-8130P[2]
Step.
Freq.
Cache 8MB
HT 3.2 GHz
Multi1
Voltage
TDP 125W
Socket AM3+
Release Date June 20th, 2011
Part Number
Nominal
Max
L2
L3


A few days ago, a nice CAT entered my home. I love cats, owned several in the past, and the new local "neighbors" know it...but how do I know/not.suspect that that cat was not a used spy....I never checked for collars(I don't think cat had collar) But next time I will


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


They have an official timeline out right now. Lots of stuff happening in June. Announcements about the BD and Llano, official 900-series chipset launch/release at Computex. Some more stuff at E3, then an AMD developers summit about Fusion stuff in Seattle.

There's also a few places saying June 20th release for client chips. Server chips coming in Q3/11.


Since I started using a DVI cable, that pretty lady avatar pic locks way too jagged edges(and not just edges)


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13475011*
> What makes you think i'm angry?
> 
> So, can you tell us where your source of knowledge comes from Vis-à-vis FX release dates? If you have definitive information, please, share it with all of us, we'd all like to know, that's why we're here.
> 
> Truth is you're hoping the FX's are delayed because they'll make your 980x purchase look even more rediculous than it already does since Sandy Bridge was released


.....on top of what he said, who buys a 980x and runs it at stock clocks with a GTX260 anyway??


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13475294*
> Since I started using a DVI cable, that pretty lady avatar pic locks way too jagged edges(and not just edges)


Is that better?

I guess when I cropped my photo and re-sized it something weird happened to make it like that (TBH I didn't notice it until I looked closely). That's the only explanation I have.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13478197*
> .....on top of what he said, who buys a 980x and runs it at stock clocks with a GTX260 anyway??


HEAT is probably the answer


----------



## Tonza

****.. Waiting is killing me







Ordered another GTX 580 for my summer build


----------



## blandino123

has anybody else seen this ? http://wccftech.com/2011/05/13/amd-bulldozer-zambezifx-benchmarks-leaked/


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blandino123;13488986*
> has anybody else seen this ? http://wccftech.com/2011/05/13/amd-bulldozer-zambezifx-benchmarks-leaked/


That would be this thread, more nonsense.


----------



## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13474944*
> Funny, where did you get that golden nugget of info?


Didn't AMD say they were going to launch the "FX" cpus at E3 in june?


----------



## davieg

http://itbbs.pconline.com.cn/diy/13128608.html

And something else to add to the collection, of is it isnt it real shots.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *davieg*


http://itbbs.pconline.com.cn/diy/13128608.html

And something else to add to the collection, of is it isnt it real shots.


You just had to go and do that, didn't you.


----------



## Roman5

Genuine cpu-z, from article written by cpu-z author Franck Delattre










http://translate.google.fr/translate...bulldozer.html

"However, AMD's architecture has great assets in his pocket, and is able to make a nice career. The *flexibility of the modules versions promises to more than 8 cores in the near future*, and if the frequencies are at the rendezvous, the performance will be present, especially in multi-threaded processing.

Still, it will still be patient. *If the first sample Zambezi begin to be distributed, the launch should not occur before July*. It will take a little longer to judge the effectiveness of the new architecture into practice and see if AMD has won his bet, an appointment can not miss it!"


----------



## Phobos223

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blandino123*


has anybody else seen this ? http://wccftech.com/2011/05/13/amd-b...hmarks-leaked/


I think you were on the wrong Bulldozer site man...


----------



## Domino

This is going to be my birthday present. Can't wait. Hopefully ASUS does support bulldozer in AM3.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


A few days ago, a nice CAT entered my home. I love cats, owned several in the past, and the new local "neighbors" know it...but how do I know/not.suspect that that cat was not a used spy....I never checked for collars(I don't think cat had collar) But next time I will


if its eyes light up at night it a spy-cat


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phobos223;13492537*
> I think you were on the wrong Bulldozer site man...


Quit ruining the BD thread w/ that trollage


----------



## Firebeard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;13493243*
> This is going to be my birthday present. Can't wait. Hopefully ASUS does support bulldozer in AM3.


i have a beta bios update its for AM3+ ( which i didnt install), supposedly its for the new amd cpu's


----------



## Optimistic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


This is going to be my birthday present. Can't wait. *Hopefully ASUS does support bulldozer in AM3.*


Yeah... I only bought an ASUS AM3 motherboard because of the Bulldozer claim.


----------



## pale_neon

is it true that launch chips are usually golden?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;13504160*
> is it true that launch chips are usually golden?


Later revisions are usually better,but you never know.
For instance Phenom II revision C3 is better than revision C2.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13507682*
> Later revisions are usually better,but you never know.
> For instance Phenom II revision C3 is better than revision C2.


well yea. different revisions/steppings are usually better. But im talking about, the same revision. launch chip vs months in.


----------



## JF-AMD

I don't know what you mean by "golden" but steppings are extremely expensive so don't expect that you would launch with one stepping and add another one quickly after.


----------



## Amor

JF. From what I know "Golden Chips" are basically chips that are great overclockers. It's all really subjective but generally it means they're able to overclock slightly more and run slightly cooler or will less voltage needed to get it stable.

Take 2 PII 955BE's on C3 stepping. You use the exact same testbed only swapping out the CPU's in between. Chip #1 can only get to 3.6 Ghz on stock voltages and you need to push more volts (say 1.45V) in order to get it to 4.0Ghz. Chip #2 on the other hand can get 4.2Ghz easily and only needs 1.35V, fun times, it would therefore constitute as a "golden chip". Note these aren't realistic examples I've purposely taken it to extremes to demonstrate what is and isn't a golden chip.

Also JF, this might be outside of your knowledge but do you have any details about the Hudson D_ chipsets and when announcements/release are? Will they be annouced/released at Computex or will it be at the Fusion Developers summit?


----------



## JF-AMD

Every processor is like a snowflake, no 2 are alike. I would not categorize some as better than other. For instance a pair of 2.4GHz processors could be very different. One could be a 2.4GHz max and one could have been a 3GHz downclocked to a 2.4GHz. You should be careful on assumptions because your results will always vary.


----------



## Tator Tot

Generally, in the Enthusiast community, we have found certain stepping's to be better than another on every chip tested.

While it's not the most scientific method; it's been working for us for years.

So you most likely will not hear the terms "Good batches" or "Golden Chips" end any time soon.


----------



## el gappo

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/05/16/stop-the-clocks/

An Oasis fan eh









Don't stop the clocks! Something like.. 



would be more appropriate













 because 



 and 



 so bring on 



 (near enough







) Grew up on nothing but Oasis


----------



## purpleannex

oh dear, that explains a lot...


----------



## Asus11

June 11th is the release then...so I should be able to see available bully's on ebuyer scan on this day in uk??


----------



## landyzhu

if I'm the architect, I will add SSD contorller into the CPU die ahead of INTEL since current low performance/cost SSD product!


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13576431*
> if I'm the architecture, I will add SSD contorller into the CPU die ahead of INTEL since current low performance/cost SSD product!


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13576462*


I have good performance enough on CPU, RAM, GPU everything but SSD, a integrated SSD controller in CPU will be much advantage rather than SATA 2 or 3 bandwidth limit, one of 4 X79 IMC chanel used for SSD is much better than 10 SATA 3.0 connector


----------



## gregory121295

Yes, but most SSD's still haven't come close to maxing sata 6gbps. The new sandforce drives are going to pull some impressive numbers (in the 500's, if I remember correctly), but at that point, we can use pcie slots. The ocz revodrives already do that.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregory121295;13576915*
> Yes, but most SSD's still haven't come close to maxing sata 6gbps. The new sandforce drives are going to pull some impressive numbers (in the 500's, if I remember correctly), but at that point, we can use pcie slots. The ocz revodrives already do that.


PCIE is good direction for performance improvement, but still expensive for that performance and reducing PCIE lane, I suggest AMD can start with integrating SSD controller in their next generation CPU ahead of Intel just as they did on IMC, of course I'm not the architect designer

PS. you need pay much more on SSD to feed SATA 3.0 and 10 SATA 3.0 on X79 only mean SSD's ready for acquisition from you


----------



## motoray

Anything new jeff?


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motoray;13603978*
> Anything new jeff?


It's actually John. JF as in "*J*ohn *F*ruehe". Also I think he's either training sales reps or preparing for Computex. Also there's the NDA/Company Secrets or w/e as well so he won't give us anything that the PR department at AMD haven't approved.

EDIT: Here, just saw this. I'll toss it out to you to swoon over: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/22/asus-leaks-specifications-upcoming-bulldozer-zambezifx-processors/


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13577060*
> PCIE is good direction for performance improvement, but still expensive for that performance and reducing PCIE lane, I suggest AMD can start with integrating SSD controller in their next generation CPU ahead of Intel just as they did on IMC, of course I'm not the architect designer
> 
> PS. you need pay much more on SSD to feed SATA 3.0 and 10 SATA 3.0 on X79 only mean SSD's ready for acquisition from you


*if you think pcie ssd´s are expensive, your idea to integrate ssd into cpu package would cost arm,leg and head.







*
it does not make sense to integrate it into cpu, ssd cannot saturate pciex16 (even gpu´s cannot)

LSI WARPDRIVE SLP-300SSD 7500€


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13604965*
> *if you think pcie ssd´s are expensive, your idea to integrate ssd into cpu package would cost arm,leg and head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> it does not make sense to integrate it into cpu, ssd cannot saturate pciex16 (even gpu´s cannot)
> 
> LSI WARPDRIVE SLP-300SSD 7500€


But he did say:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13576431*
> *if I'm the architecture*, I will add SSD contorller into the CPU die ahead of INTEL since current low performance/cost SSD product!


So... maybe he knows something we don't know?

Yesterday, he was teaching us some new terms too.

Can you guess what C/P stands for?


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13605000*
> Can you guess what C/P stands for?


I thought it was Canada Post at first then I was like "wait, that doesn't make sense in this context". Then I was like "oh it must be cost/performance".


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13605007*
> I thought it was Canada Post at first then I was like "wait, that doesn't make sense in this context". Then I was like "oh it must be cost/performance".


Your logic would serve you correctly, that's what I thought too.

But it's not....

Try again.

Now, don't cheat and look up his previous posts, I really want to know if anyone can guess it.

Hint, straight from his triple post:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu*
> agree, people buy AMD mostly like it high C/P value, but also should not ignore when they're in performance advantage, they're not cheap.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu*
> less C/P value if bd's competitive.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu*
> my topic is when AMD's competitive, you will get less C/P value on them.


I'm not trying to pick on him, but he should do some more research on the topics at hand.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13605000*
> But he did say:
> 
> So... maybe he knows something we don't know?
> 
> Yesterday, he was teaching us some new terms too.
> 
> Can you guess what C/P stands for?


oh really ?

do you know how many pins ssd controllers have ?
this SF has above 300, that means : new cpu socket, with added ~300 pins.

nothing cheap here

_but yes, lets believe random guy on internet_


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13605055*
> oh really ?
> 
> do you know how many pins ssd controllers have ?
> this SF has above 300, that means : new cpu socket, with added ~300 pins.
> 
> nothing cheap here
> 
> _but yes, lets believe random guy on internet_


Are you familiar with the term "sarcasm"?

If not, look it up.







Also, look at my post above yours.

Maybe I should've added some smiley faces to my post to make it more obvious.

Here, how's this?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13604965*
> *if you think pcie ssd´s are expensive, your idea to integrate ssd into cpu package would cost arm,leg and head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> it does not make sense to integrate it into cpu, ssd cannot saturate pciex16 (even gpu´s cannot)
> 
> LSI WARPDRIVE SLP-300SSD 7500€


But he did say:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13576431*
> *if I'm the architecture*, I will add SSD contorller into the CPU die ahead of INTEL since current low performance/cost SSD product!


So... maybe he knows something we don't know?









Yesterday, he was teaching us some new terms too.









Can you guess what C/P stands for?


----------



## Mit Namso

http://wccftech.com/2011/05/20/amd-bulldozer-llano-fusion-pricing-information-leaked/










And the FX-4110 tested in the AM3 ASUS CrossHair IV Extreme Edition

http://wccftech.com/2011/05/15/amd-bulldozer-fx-4110-performance-videos-leaked/

Thats great for me

So strictly for gaming, I should get the 4 core FX-4110, or spoil myself and get the 6-core FX-6110 for a little more $$$, and maybe faster clocks

And put it all in my AM3


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Lees joking more bulldozing


----------



## Amor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13605437*
> And the FX-4110 tested in the AM3 ASUS CrossHair IV Extreme Edition
> 
> http://wccftech.com/2011/05/15/amd-bulldozer-fx-4110-performance-videos-leaked/
> 
> Thats great for me
> 
> So strictly for gaming, I should get the 4 core FX-4110, or spoil myself and get the 6-core FX-6110 for a little more $$$, and maybe faster clocks
> 
> And put it all in my AM3


I thought it was concluded those videos were fake? He didn't clear the WEI before retesting and some other things that led people to believe they were fake.

I'm still going to reserve my judgment for when real benches come out. Lets hope it's good otherwise I might go for a Haswell if AMD can't counter with a good Enhanced/NextGen BD.

Now the question is..... Should I go the Llano path and upgrade to Trinity in 2012 or go the Zambezi BD path for some hardcore scientific computing right now?


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13605805*
> I thought it was concluded those videos were fake? He didn't clear the WEI before retesting and some other things that led people to believe they were fake.
> 
> I'm still going to reserve my judgment for when real benches come out. Lets hope it's good otherwise I might go for a Haswell if AMD can't counter with a good Enhanced/NextGen BD.
> 
> Now the question is..... Should I go the Llano path and upgrade to Trinity in 2012 or go the Zambezi BD path for some hardcore scientific computing right now?


1st time I saw original was this hour

and I just did up some budgets

But if I can get a 4-6 core BD for under $350 all/inc. mid july, I can still EASILY CF my 6950 by mid AUGUST

What about the leaked budgets, I guess they are in USD, I suppose there is noway to know there authenticity either...(like OB-thawed out)

still, if its under $350 from newegg.ca, CF 6950 by mid august


----------



## InerTia*

I am glad I got mah 890FXA-GD70







Now why did I buy a dang 1090t :\ lol


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13605070*
> Are you familiar with the term "sarcasm"?
> 
> So... maybe he knows something we don't know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, he was teaching us some new terms too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you guess what C/P stands for?


now i see it


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13605055*
> oh really ?
> 
> do you know how many pins ssd controllers have ?
> this SF has above 300, that means : new cpu socket, with added ~300 pins.
> 
> nothing cheap here
> 
> _but yes, lets believe random guy on internet_


that's interesting you still want to keep stupid SF P3 level controller if you decide to develop a integrated SSD controller in new CPU, I was also interested with intel X79, why they can leave useless 4 channel for IMC rather than just leaving one for SSD? btw, 10 sata 3.0 also for your more SF controller market, right? that's funny.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13604965*
> *if you think pcie ssd´s are expensive, your idea to integrate ssd into cpu package would cost arm,leg and head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> it does not make sense to integrate it into cpu, ssd cannot saturate pciex16 (even gpu´s cannot)
> 
> lsi warpdrive slp-300ssd 7500€


imc also costed all of that?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13606152*
> now i see it












I was agreeing with you obviously.









@landyshu, you have a habit of double, even triple posting.

I posted this pic yesterday, which obviously wasn't clear.



Instead of double posting, just edit your post.

If you want to reply to more than 1 quote, that button on the right Multi-quotes, so you can quote more than 1 post at a time.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13605025*
> Your logic would serve you correctly, that's what I thought too.
> 
> But it's not....
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Now, don't cheat and look up his previous posts, I really want to know if anyone can guess it.
> 
> Hint, straight from his triple post:
> 
> I'm not trying to pick on him, but he should do some more research on the topics at hand.


yeah, $400+ bucks ATHLONXP 3200+ 2.0g for high C/P value @ AMD's launch


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13607376*
> yeah, $400+ bucks ATHLONXP 3200+ 2.0g for high C/P value @ AMD's launch


Yeah, $400 bucks,it kicked your precious Intel's butt back then.
Pentium 4 proved that clock speed alone does not denote performance. It's like saying only engine horsepower in a car matters,when there are many other factors. So yes the Athon XP 3200+ 2.0Ghz had a high Cost/Performance value. The Athlon 64's were even better in Cost/Performance.
AMD's CPU's even beat the $1,000 P4 EE,it took 5Ghz with extreme cooling just to beat the Athlon 64. Wait.. it's not ZOMG EXTREEEEEM EDISHUN with 3.xx GIGAHERTZ THE INTEL MUST BE FASTER!








AMD had Intel beat in every way with CPU's that were faster at lower speeds with less heat. Intel had to result back to Pentium & Pentium III technology with tons of modifications just to catch up.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Nice pointed AMD = more bang for buck Intel = give me your money biatch.... nuff said.


----------



## 2010rig

C/p
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13593188*
> capability/price


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13613865*
> C/p


I was really interesting in you dont know what dose C/P value stand for, I supposed you guys which use English as native language should understand and this term obviously was not invented by I?









http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&biw=1362&bih=748&q=capability%2Fprice&oq=capability%2Fprice&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=4111l4111l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0l


----------



## LOL_Wut_Axel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13614261*
> I was really interesting in you dont know what dose C/P value stand for, I supposed you guys which use English as native language should understand and this term obviously was not invented by I?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&biw=1362&bih=748&q=capability%2Fprice&oq=capability%2Fprice&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=4111l4111l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0l


Use Price/Performance and shop pushing your own terms down people's throat. That's what's always being used in English-speaking countries.

And at the time $400 for an Athlon XP was a bargain considering the extremely high IPC it had in comparison to Pentium 4.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13614261*
> I was really interesting in you dont know what dose C/P value stand for, I supposed you guys which use English as native language should understand and this term obviously was not invented by I?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&biw=1362&bih=748&q=capability%2Fprice&oq=capability%2Fprice&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=4111l4111l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0l


Thank you for pointing us to Google Honk Kong. You're not on overclock.net.hk

In the other thread we told you that the proper term in English speaking countries is:
Price / Performance

C/P could also be Cost / Performance. Capability / Price?

No one around here uses or has heard of such term. The way you use it doesn't even make sense half the time.

But you stick with Capability/Price if that suits you, just don't expect everyone to understand what you're talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LOL_Wut_Axel;13593309*
> I guess you completely forgot the part where I said *Athlon 64*. Also, $400 launch price at the time was just fine given how powerful it was.
> 
> Also, your use of C/P is even less justified now. C/P could mean cost/performance, but who would think of capability/price? Maybe you should stop making up terms and then expecting people to know what they mean when they've never heard it. Next time you should just use price/performance and avoid any confusion.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13610817*
> Yeah, $400 bucks,it your precious Intel's butt back then.
> Pentium 4 proved that clock speed alone does not denote performance. It's like saying only engine horsepower in a car matters,when there are many other factors. So yes the Athon XP 3200+ 2.0Ghz had a high Cost/Performance value. The Athlon 64's were even better in Cost/Performance.
> AMD's CPU's even beat the $1,000 P4 EE,it took 5Ghz with extreme cooling just to beat the Athlon 64. Wait.. it's not ZOMG EXTREEEEEM EDISHUN with 3.xx GIGAHERTZ THE INTEL MUST BE FASTER!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD had Intel beat in every way with CPU's that were faster at lower speeds with less heat. Intel had to result back to Pentium & Pentium III technology with tons of modifications just to catch up.


yeah, I have my topic again and again, when AMD's competitive, you will get less C/P capability/price value, and I dont want to repeat anymore, just wait and see what bd can teach you once more


----------



## LOL_Wut_Axel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13614300*
> yeah, I have my topic again and again, when AMD's competitive, you will get less C/P capability/price value, and I dont want to repeat anymore, just wait and see what bd can teach you once more


That's clearly not true if you look at the Athlon 64 X2 vs the Pentium D. You don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13607319*
> imc also costed all of that?


just my good hope, AMD can lead the technique innovation once more
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13614297*
> Thank you for pointing us to Google Honk Kong. You're not on overclock.net.hk
> 
> In the other thread we told you that the proper term in English speaking countries is:
> Price / Performance
> 
> C/P could also be Cost / Performance. Capability / Price?
> 
> No one around here uses or has heard of such term. The way you use it doesn't even make sense half the time.
> 
> But you stick with Capability/Price if that suits you, just don't expect everyone to understand what you're talking about.


I dont believe capability/price or price/performance should be a barrier, unless you mean to it.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13614593*
> I dont believe capability/price or price/performance should be a barrier, unless you mean to it.


Believe what ever you want to believe.

Keep using C/P and expect people to know what you're talking about.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LOL_Wut_Axel;13614332*
> That's clearly not true if you look at the Athlon 64 X2 vs the Pentium D. You don't know what you're talking about.


Exactly.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13614501*
> just my good hope, AMD can lead the technique innovation once more


Eh? You just quoted yourself,and it doesn't make any sense.


----------



## motoray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amor;13604317*
> It's actually John. JF as in "*J*ohn *F*ruehe". Also I think he's either training sales reps or preparing for Computex. Also there's the NDA/Company Secrets or w/e as well so he won't give us anything that the PR department at AMD haven't approved.
> 
> EDIT: Here, just saw this. I'll toss it out to you to swoon over: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/22/asus-leaks-specifications-upcoming-bulldozer-zambezifx-processors/


Ya i know but when u work no less than 14 hours a day and your only time to get online is when ur sleepy i dont think about that lol. Thanks for the link tho


----------



## purpleannex

14hrs a day? Sod that!

I begrudge going in for a couple of hours a day...


----------



## motoray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13618489*
> 14hrs a day? Sod that!
> 
> I begrudge going in for a couple of hours a day...


dont join the military then lol


----------



## purpleannex

I'm too old


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *landyzhu;13607319*
> imc also costed all of that?


what ? i have serious problems to understand your words

you better stop flame posts


----------



## Canis-X

I saw this today.... http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweclockers.com%2Fnyhet%2F14010-var-ar-amd-bulldozer
Quote:


> Now it looks like that AMD is struggling to keep the schedule. SweClockers have talked to Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers who are currently in the process of launching Bulldozer-made models of chipsets in the AMD 900 series . These will be sold without any FX processors in sight.


Anyone heard anything else on this issue?


----------



## love9sick

That above better be a rumor.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

What....???? Has AMD gone insane....??? JF what the hell is going on there are you held hostage has AMD CEO flipped ?? I hope that http://translate.google.fr/translate...-amd-bulldozer is a fake or that would be a major drawback for the market and not to mention that many AMD fans might jump ship to Intel....


----------



## JCPUser

Chill guys.

Unless AMD themselves (or John, of course







) tell us otherwise then it will be released before end of June.


----------



## Canis-X

I know that this is good ol' Charlie, but this doesn't sound good either....

Guess which CEO candidate was seen lurking at AMD HQ?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


I saw this today.... http://translate.google.fr/translate...-amd-bulldozer

Anyone heard anything else on this issue?


without proof this is only RUMOR from pagerank fools

each day closer to launch, and badmouthing increases


----------



## Canis-X

Good deal, just feeling the waters on the matter. I wasn't able to find anything else on it but there are some that google better than others....


----------



## PROBN4LYFE

If they fail to deliver by June, Intel will Realease Ivy Bridge and it will be back to the drawing board. Then Intel lowers the pricing on Sandy Bridge and its over for another 5 years AMD.


----------



## LOL_Wut_Axel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PROBN4LYFE;13626427*
> If they fail to deliver by June, Intel will Realease Ivy Bridge and it will be back to the drawing board.


You do know Ivy Bridge is released in Q1 2012, right? That's a pretty long ways off.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Most people aren't bad mouthing Bulldozer, I think they're just trying to keep things in perspective so people don't get inflated expectations.

I'm guessing he means SB-E? Even that is quite some time away I believe its Q4 of this year.

I really hope they bring out Bulldozer on time, they've reduced their Phenom IIs prices so much leading up to its release.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13626488*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people aren't bad mouthing Bulldozer, I think they're just trying to keep things in perspective so people don't get inflated expectations.
> 
> I'm guessing he means SB-E? Even that is quite some time away I believe its Q4 of this year.
> 
> I really hope they bring out Bulldozer on time, they've reduced their Phenom IIs prices so much leading up to its release.


I wonder what JF-AMD thinks of your avatar?


----------



## LOL_Wut_Axel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13626488*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people aren't bad mouthing Bulldozer, I think they're just trying to keep things in perspective so people don't get inflated expectations.
> 
> I'm guessing he means SB-E? Even that is quite some time away I believe its Q4 of this year.
> 
> I really hope they bring out Bulldozer on time, they've reduced their Phenom IIs prices so much leading up to its release.


Sandy Bridge-E doesn't compete with Bulldozer; in other words, it doesn't compete with anything.

Bulldozer competes with Sandy Bridge and Enhanced Bulldozer competes with Ivy Bridge.


----------



## Domino

I think JF needs an avatar.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13623332*
> Good deal, just feeling the waters on the matter. I wasn't able to find anything else on it but there are some that google better than others....


guess who will profit from negative rumors about AMD ?
i´ll give ya hint : blue team & his sycophants









about Fiorina rumor - if thats true, i´ll need pump up the volume on this track : _system of a down- f-ck the system_


----------



## Ooimo

Can't wait for bulldozer


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ooimo*


Can't wait for bulldozer


Great post!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but can you confirm/deny that bulldozer may be delayed?


----------



## purpleannex

No I can't.

You were talking to me, weren't you?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Maybe.


----------



## 2010rig

Or maybe he was talking to JF-AMD, and of course, he's under NDA, and can not reveal anything to us.

The mystery of Bulldozer continues...

I remember seeing Sandy Bridge benchmarks and leaks 4 months before it was released. At the time they were rumors, which turned out to be true.


----------



## love9sick

This would be a huge pile of suck if it was delayed


----------



## ShiftedReality

Maybe JF-AMD can chime in and dismiss the rumor of it being pushed back to Q3. Rumors are just what they are named, but sometimes they do turn out to be true.


----------



## Asus11

so its coming out september now? this should have been released last september


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LOL_Wut_Axel*


You do know Ivy Bridge is released in Q1 2012, right? That's a pretty long ways off.


Ivy Bridge to launch in March / April 2012
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...h-/-april-2012

nothing unexpected, finfet technology isnÂ´t easy to make like todays planar CMOS transistors

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LOL_Wut_Axel*


Sandy Bridge-E doesn't compete with Bulldozer; in other words, it doesn't compete with anything.

Bulldozer competes with Sandy Bridge and Enhanced Bulldozer competes with Ivy Bridge.


SB-E Xeons (LGA2011) will compete with G34/C32 BD_Opterons
<not sure about "LGA2011 desktop variants", if any>

true


----------



## Goodboys

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;13641161*
> so its coming out september now? this should have been released last september


NO delay from what this report from AMD says.
\http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1025943-bson-amd-officially-denies-bulldozer-delay.html


----------



## love9sick

Knock on wood it comes in June. Now with that article rumors are all over the place haha.


----------



## Vhozard

Can't wait for the 8-cores!
Please beat Intel's ass, AMD!


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13643299*


AFAIK SB-E will have 3 different desktop models on release.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13632898*
> I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but can you confirm/deny that bulldozer may be delayed?


no one will confirm or deny those rumors until the launch happen and by then you will have your answer ....

geez ... why cant people wait a bit


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Relax guy, its not a big deal either way. I think my wait is a bit longer anyways since it will be March-April 2012 before my next upgrade path opens up.


----------



## Tweeky

Delayed lunch of the bulldozer until Sept. 2011 with production starting in Aug. 2011


----------



## BallaTheFeared

rut roh

Is it legit though?


----------



## purpleannex

Different models to what have been touted as the first wave of BD. Doesn't mean it isn't true though, and that the all the other info on model numbers was wrong.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

lol..


















http://hw-lab.com/four-more-amd-fx-processor-to-surface-in-september.html

I believe they're talking about the second wave.

Drama.


----------



## eseb1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;13668156*
> no one will confirm or deny those rumors until the launch happen and by then you will have your answer ....
> 
> geez ... why cant people wait a bit


http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/5/26/amd-officially-denies-bulldozer-delay2c-but.aspx


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13669880*
> 
> I believe they're talking about the second wave.
> 
> Drama.


FX8150? Yea I don't think that is the first wave. Maybe those are the enhanced bulldozers...that is still soon right after the first wave though.

Actually just read this there so yea:

"*As we know, first AMD FX series processors (a.k.a. Zambezi) should debut in June.* There will be four models presented: FX-4110, FX-6110, FX-8110 and FX-8130P. However, according to Chinese media, we are likely to see four more FX series products launch couple of months after: FX-8150, FX-8100, FX-6100 and FX-4100."


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13669936*
> FX8150? Yea I don't think that is the first wave. Maybe those are the enhanced bulldozers...that is still soon right after the first wave though.
> 
> Actually just read this there so yea:
> 
> "*As we know, first AMD FX series processors (a.k.a. Zambezi) should debut in June.* There will be four models presented: FX-4110, FX-6110, FX-8110 and FX-8130P. However, according to Chinese media, we are likely to see four more FX series products launch couple of months after: FX-8150, FX-8100, FX-6100 and FX-4100."


Two exact same models with different numbers why would anyone buy a FX-8130 when you can have a FX-8150 in two months


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It will probably be cheaper.


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13670023*
> Two exact same models with different numbers why would anyone buy a FX-8130 when you can have a FX-8150 in two months


Probably because it will just be a step up slightly more clocked version of the FX8130p? People will be clocking the FX8130 past the FX8150 by then. You always lose waiting for step ups, there is always a better version coming around the corner. I just want the next architecture, don't want phenom anymore.


----------



## Mit Namso

if even more BD options are coming out in sept, I should get new PSU and CF, then decide on what 4-6 core BD

do the fx-4110 and 6110 have unlocked multipliers? I definitely want that for the fine tuning and maximizing the total system OC


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


if even more BD options are coming out in sept, I should get new PSU and CF, then decide on what 4-6 core BD

do the fx-4110 and 6110 have unlocked multipliers? I definitely want that for the fine tuning and maximizing the total system OC


I could be wrong, but something around 750w(decent PSU) would be good for CF + OC.

Thank goodness 6000 CF has such scalability. I'm hoping they all have unlocked multi, it means I can be a little less picky when I decide to purchase. If so, maybe it would revert the market back to "do what you can" from "you have to purchase this one to even try".


----------



## LOL_Wut_Axel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


if even more BD options are coming out in sept, I should get new PSU and CF, then decide on what 4-6 core BD

do the fx-4110 and 6110 have unlocked multipliers? I definitely want that for the fine tuning and maximizing the total system OC


All FX CPUs have unlocked multipliers.


----------



## raisethe3

Woah, i thought it was confirmed that it wasn't delayed? I am hella confused.









Also what's with the number change? Speed bumps I guess? Damn.

Wait....I noticed it says FX4100, but the first batch says "4110"?? Does this mean that the second batch get downgraded?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13669570*
> Delayed lunch of the bulldozer until Sept. 2011 with production starting in Aug. 2011


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;13673837*
> Woah, i thought it was confirmed that it wasn't delayed? I am hella confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also what's with the number change? Speed bumps I guess? Damn.
> 
> Wait....I noticed it says FX4100, but the first batch says "4110"?? Does this mean that the second batch get downgraded?


That link is for the second version of BD. It all still smells like rumors.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13670023*
> Two exact same models with different numbers why would anyone buy a FX-8130 when you can have a FX-8150 in two months


You, along with everyone else on here has no idea what those number schemes mean, so how can you judge whether an FX-8150 is worthless over an FX-8130P?









Or vice versa?

Bulldozer speculation gets more silly everyday.

Of course if you have inside knowledge (PMSL), please spill the beans, we'd all like to know.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13674507*
> Bulldozer speculation gets more silly everyday.
> 
> Of course if you have inside knowledge (PMSL), please spill the beans, we'd all like to know.


goat herder sunglasses with 8core purchase


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13670605*
> Probably because it will just be a step up slightly more clocked version of the FX8130p? People will be clocking the FX8130 past the FX8150 by then. You always lose waiting for step ups, there is always a better version coming around the corner. I just want the next architecture, don't want phenom anymore.


Yeah, the recent price drop on PII leaves me saying "meh". I'll never buy another Phenom II again. From now on its Bulldozer FX for me!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13676175*
> goat herder sunglasses with 8core purchase


I'd pay $350 for that but I want a goat too. Tired of mowing my lawn...


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13674507*
> You, along with everyone else on here has no idea what those number schemes mean, so how can you judge whether an FX-8150 is worthless over an FX-8130P?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or vice versa?
> 
> Bulldozer speculation gets more silly everyday.
> 
> Of course if you have inside knowledge (PMSL), please spill the beans, we'd all like to know.


Wit money in bank and no bully dozers to order there is nothing left but to speculate?
I have been hearing about bully dozer for &#8230; MAN! I'm even running out of speculations!
By the time the bully dozer becomes availed the money in the bank will have depreciated so much that a 2 core bully dozer would be out of reach?


----------



## purpleannex

I know, we're all dying to know what BD brings, but that was speculating about a speculation!


----------



## crossy82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love9sick;13652016*
> Knock on wood it comes in June. Now with that article rumors are all over the place haha.


Thats because in september new version of Bulldozer arrive.However people think they are refering to the first Bulldozer products.


----------



## crossy82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;13673837*
> Woah, i thought it was confirmed that it wasn't delayed? I am hella confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also what's with the number change? Speed bumps I guess? Damn.
> 
> Wait....I noticed it says FX4100, but the first batch says "4110"?? Does this mean that the second batch get downgraded?


It could be like the GPU market,highest comes out first followed by lower clocked budget options with lower power draw.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crossy82*


It could be like the GPU market,highest comes out first followed by lower clocked budget options with lower power draw.


Lower clocks with less power draw= better overclocks!


----------



## creisti86

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/990fx-sli-am3,2953.html
Quote:


> The bad news is that those Bulldozer-based chips are still not ready. Processors based on the B0 stepping are in the hands of motherboard manufacturers. But they're all telling me that *performance is nowhere near what they were expecting*, and it'll take another stepping to fix them.


B0 is a pre-release stepping, isn't it?, so we should not worry about this, should we?

Also, the article says 990FX is the same as 890FX but with sli support. And that zambezi will work on am3 with an upgrade (depending on the MB manufacturer), but without some voltage/frequency power saving features. But what about MBs with the 890FX chipset that have a black socket (am3+), those should have the features mentioned since they are physically the same, shouldn't they?


----------



## Tonza

AMD is in serious problems now. So many people are upgrading PC at summer, and all has delayed the upgrade because of Bulldozer (To see how it performs compared to sandy bridge etc..). Since AMD cant even release benchmarks, for me decision will be clear now.


----------



## Mit Namso

more and more it looks like I should get the new PSU and CF 1st, then just hope BD is out by sept.

and works good enough in a m4a89, and is actually enough of an upgrade over a x4 965, which are currently $140


----------



## Blostorm

A nice confirmed release date / period would be appreciated.

I'm leading towards Intel a lot but there is always my AMD minded brain that has always and only used AMD.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

So what then no bulldozer in june???


----------



## Chico212

Found some interesting stuff

*AMD Bulldozer FX-8130P Now Available for Sale, Priced at 1998.0 Yuan ($308)*

Read more: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/30/amd-bulldozer-fx8130p-sale-priced-19980-yuan-308/#ixzz1NrRPY6XQ

"*AMD Bulldozer "FX-8110″ Scores 81917 in 3DMark Vantage CPU Test*

3D Mark Vantage CPU Score:

AMD FX-8110(3.8Ghz): 81917 CPU Marks
Intel Core i7 2600K(Stock): 64146 CPU Marks

The AMD chip is miles ahead of the Intel i7 2600K at a lesser price as shown from the test"

http://wccftech.com/2011/05/30/amd-bulldozer-fx8110-scores-81917-3dmark-vantage-cpu-test-details/


----------



## Blostorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;13687506*
> Found some interesting stuff
> 
> *AMD Bulldozer FX-8130P Now Available for Sale, Priced at 1998.0 Yuan ($308)*
> 
> Read more: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/30/amd-bulldozer-fx8130p-sale-priced-19980-yuan-308/#ixzz1NrRPY6XQ
> 
> "*AMD Bulldozer "FX-8110″ Scores 81917 in 3DMark Vantage CPU Test*
> 
> 3D Mark Vantage CPU Score:
> 
> AMD FX-8110(3.8Ghz): 81917 CPU Marks
> Intel Core i7 2600K(Stock): 64146 CPU Marks
> 
> The AMD chip is miles ahead of the Intel i7 2600K at a lesser price as shown from the test"
> 
> http://wccftech.com/2011/05/30/amd-bulldozer-fx8110-scores-81917-3dmark-vantage-cpu-test-details/


Fake and old benchmark I guess. Price have been out already since a couple weeks.


----------



## Chico212

*AMD Needs to Boost Clock-Speed of FX "Bulldozer" Chips - Sources*

"Advanced Micro Devices needs to improve performance of its FX-series "Zambezi" microprocessors for desktops featuring the Bulldozer micro-architecture before launching them, according to sources with knowledge of the matter. Performance can be improved with a new stepping, which will be production ready only by August."

read more - http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20110530130539_AMD_Needs_to_Boost_Clock_Speed_of_FX_Bulldozer_Chips_Sources.html


----------



## love9sick

From now on anything that isn't directly from AMD I am considering it as bull ****.


----------



## motoray

Quote:



Originally Posted by *love9sick*


From now on anything that isn't directly from AMD I am considering it as bull ****.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *love9sick*


From now on anything that isn't directly from AMD I am considering it as bull ****.


boy! your in for a long wait?

there is good reasons AMD aren't showing benches


----------



## Chico212

Quote:



Originally Posted by *love9sick*


From now on anything that isn't directly from AMD I am considering it as bull ****.


*Confirmed its delayed *

"To the disappointment of many, AMD confirmed today at Computex that they are going to be delaying the launch of their new Bulldozer chips until at least July."
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...until-q3-2011/


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Ouch.


----------



## Squirrel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chico212*


*Confirmed its delayed *

"To the disappointment of many, AMD confirmed today at Computex that they are going to be delaying the launch of their new Bulldozer chips until at least July."
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...until-q3-2011/


Read it again, nothing is confirmed.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Squirrel*


Read it again, nothing is confirmed.


Strange seems he edited the article, it now reads .

"To the disappointment of many, rumors have been swirling today at Computex that AMD had decided to delay the launch of their new Bulldozer architecture until at least July"


----------



## love9sick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;13691840*
> *Confirmed its delayed*
> 
> "To the disappointment of many, AMD confirmed today at Computex that they are going to be delaying the launch of their new Bulldozer chips until at least July."
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/cpu/amd-postpones-bulldozer-launch-until-q3-2011/


"*rumors have been swirling today*"

Whatever.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13691456*
> there is good reasons AMD aren't showing benches


We have always said benchmarks at launch


----------



## IRJASONN

sry disregard this post


----------



## Canis-X

JF.....so is there a delay or is it all a bunch of smoke???

Edit:

Looking more and more like the rumors are true. The stories are starting to be more and more specific as to what the issues are.

Sources:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/5/30/amd-delays-bulldozer-citing-performance-issues.aspx
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/05/30/bulldozer-and-ivy-bridge-both-delayed-a-bit/
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20110530130539_AMD_Needs_to_Boost_Clock_Speed_of_FX_Bulldozer_Chips_Sources.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20110529174721_AMD_May_Delay_Launch_of_FX_Series_Zambezi_Microprocessors.html


----------



## Catscratch

I only wonder, why would they discover it just now ? They didn't have a running sample by now? Or maybe they somehow learned ivy bridge's performance and bulldozer wouldn't be enough to hold until they come up with something for ivy bridge.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch;13698860*
> I only wonder, why would they discover it just now ? They didn't have a running sample by now? Or maybe they somehow learned ivy bridge's performance and bulldozer wouldn't be enough to hold until they come up with something for ivy bridge.


Since Ivy Bridge isn't out, that doesn't matter.

It probably didn't keep up with the 2500K & 2600K, so they have to make another stepping.

Of course that's my speculation based on all the rumors flying around.

Plus, the most obvious sign of BD delays is the fact that 990FX Motherboard reviews are being done WITHOUT BD, instead with a 980BE or 1100T.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=756&Itemid=69
http://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/zardon/asus-sabertooth-990fx-motherboard-review/

Also, Am I reading correctly that there isn't a big difference between 990FX & 890FX, accept for guaranteed BD compatibility with 990FX?

@JF-AMD - will Bulldozer hit retail June 20th? Or is it in fact delayed?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I've been saying all along where there's smoke there's fire. These reporters are not just running around making all this stuff up....


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13697675*
> JF.....so is there a delay or is it all a bunch of smoke???


How many times have I said that I don't comment on rumors?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13698884*
> Since Ivy Bridge isn't out, that doesn't matter.
> 
> It probably didn't keep up with the 2500K & 2600K, so they have to make another stepping.
> 
> Of course that's my speculation based on all the rumors flying around.
> 
> Plus, the most obvious sign of BD delays is the fact that 990FX Motherboard reviews are being done WITHOUT BD, instead with a 980BE or 1100T.
> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=756&Itemid=69
> http://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/zardon/asus-sabertooth-990fx-motherboard-review/
> 
> Also, Am I reading correctly that there isn't a big difference between 990FX & 890FX, accept for guaranteed BD compatibility with 990FX?
> 
> @JF-AMD - will Bulldozer hit retail June 20th? Or is it in fact delayed?


Aside from what you mentioned, the 990FX will support Sli, have UEFI (instead of BIOS), support 1866Mhz RAM. Select MoBo's will have more bells and whistles than others though. I think that the UEFI and Sli native support are pretty major things though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13699761*
> How many times have I said that I don't comment on rumors?


I understand JF, but....._and really it is a big but for us_.....we are not seeing any official feedback that states that the rumors are false. It would go a long way for us to hear from you in here that the buzz is false.....just a "we have not changed our projected/stated time-line" or as already stated by Rick Bergman at AMDs 1Q 2011 earnings call back in April "Our public roadmap has not changed." would suffice IMHO. That's all we are asking for.


----------



## Iris

Canis, I remember awhile back that the only time frame for BD was before 2012. Then we've seen the leak slides showing june Q2. Then conference calls saying early summer for client (Q2), late summer for server (Q3). With all the rumors coming out during computex from motherboard vendors, people in the know, I think the rumors are true. Certain people should have final production silicon by now, they don't. Sites like anandtech and hardocp indicating at least delay to july, maybe longer. All of these can't be wrong. I know we as enthusiasts, are on a back burner for AMD. Ive been waiting for an upgrade since January atleast. We shall see in a few weeks, if we get any kind of official statement from AMD.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iris;13700977*
> Canis, I remember awhile back that the only time frame for BD was before 2012. Then we've seen the leak slides showing june Q2. Then conference calls saying early summer for client (Q2), late summer for server (Q3). With all the rumors coming out during computex from motherboard vendors, people in the know, I think the rumors are true. Certain people should have final production silicon by now, they don't. Sites like anandtech and hardocp indicating at least delay to july, maybe longer. All of these can't be wrong. I know we as enthusiasts, are on a back burner for AMD. Ive been waiting for an upgrade since January atleast. We shall see in a few weeks, if we get any kind of official statement from AMD.


Yep Yep, I remember. I just think that a current "official statement" from an official source at AMD saying "nothing has changed", would go a long way to put all of us AMD'rs at ease.


----------



## love9sick

Yea, for all we know they are actually on time but the JUNE release was the actual rumor. If this comes out in a few months and not soon it may have to compete with Sandy Bridge Extreme. That would suck because if those don't cost an arm and a leg there will be no reason for game enthusiasts to really go with AMD. For the sake of AMD hopefully Intel doesn't push their SB-E release date up. They will still probably cream Intel in many areas when it comes to server and multi-threaded applications but....yea who knows.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


...


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13702312*
> ...


True, but that was from Nov 9th, 2010....I did specifically state "current 'official statement'" to rule out the recent chatter on the net.

I already personally know of two people that were waiting on BD that are reading these rumors and have decided to go with Intel because of the lack of an official response from AMD countering it. I don't want to see AMD get hurt by all of this is all I am saying. Please AMD put our minds at ease and kill this rumor!!!

Quote:


> *November 9, 2010 by John Fruehe*
> 
> Today AMD hosted our annual Financial Analyst Day in our Sunnyvale, CA headquarters. The Financial Analyst Day is our opportunity to give the financial community a peek into what next year (and the year after) have in store for AMD. As you can imagine, "Bulldozer" was a key topic for discussion, both in the main session as well as the server breakout.
> 
> To make sure that all of you are caught up on the latest news, here's a summary of what we disclosed to the analysts:
> 
> Product Schedules - *This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011.* The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

JF-AMD
please,
what can you tell us? Anything? can we even expect any news on bulldozer at all?
Sorry but all this BS flying around is getting out of hand..... Surley you can give us some sort of hint? Im trying to hold out but am losing hope....and time.. My wife wont agree to my new pc purachase agreement forever....
thanks for your time,
concerned amd customer.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


I understand JF, but....._and really it is a big but for us_.....we are not seeing any official feedback that states that the rumors are false. It would go a long way for us to hear from you in here that the buzz is false.....just a "we have not changed our projected/stated time-line" or as already stated by Rick Bergman at AMDs 1Q 2011 earnings call back in April "Our public roadmap has not changed." would suffice IMHO. That's all we are asking for.


No, AMD has. They have continuously stated Q2 2011 release.

To counter rumours you simply state what your original plan was. You don't have to go dismiss every statement made every hour. Just because they don't doesn't mean they haven't given any feedback. Their official statement has always been Q2 2011.


----------



## Mit Namso

to JF-AMD

what is the official line?

when will a release date for retail sales be given?

this post started aug-2 2010


----------



## Chuckclc

Could the Ivy Bridge constantly getting delayed, or pushed back sounds better, be a reason Bulldozer may be delayed, or pushed back?


----------



## Canis-X

*Sigh* This, I believe, is a little more than just glancing statement. There are major review sites that are stating pretty much the same information, but this time it is apparent that the sources are different between review sites. This is something that AMD could head off at the pass if they would just publicly state that BD is still on track, that is not the case though and can cost AMD serious market-share......I am 100% AMD through-and-through, never purchased Intel before and I don't intend to, but I most certainly would help a friend out if there was negative gossip/rumors going around about them, that is simply what I am trying to do here. I want to see AMD get as much out of it's consumer-base based off of BD to help them with R&D for future hardware, that is not going to happen though if they don't refute negative rumors about product release dates when the rumors have reached this level of attention and are being broadcast with this amount of detail, as loud at they are and this late in the game.

*Shrug*


----------



## linkin93

AMD's Computex stream is live:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/amd-2011-computex-press-conference-live


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;13704652*
> Could the Ivy Bridge constantly getting delayed, or pushed back sounds better, be a reason Bulldozer may be delayed, or pushed back?


Not sure I understand what you're saying.

Ivy Bridge delayed doesn't really matter.

Intel already has Sandy Bridge, and Core i7 1st gen. Plus, SB-E will be out by the end of the year.

AMD on the other hand is 2 generations behind, they need Bulldozer out, NOW.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;13705026*
> AMD's Computex stream is live:
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/amd-2011-computex-press-conference-live


so its 1016 in Taipei, Taiwan there now, that ustream says the press conf. starts 1000, I have is blank screen and porno music


----------



## Mit Namso

someone's talking

its AMD people


----------



## Optimus_Prime

AMD....... spill the beans already


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13699761*
> How many times have I said that I don't comment on rumors?


Long time no see on the forums







How's work?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13699828*
> Aside from what you mentioned, the 990FX will support Sli, have UEFI (instead of BIOS), support 1866Mhz RAM. Select MoBo's will have more bells and whistles than others though. I think that the UEFI and Sli native support are pretty major things though.


As far as UEFI goes, it's up to the motherboard makers on whether they use UEFI or BIOS. The same goes for SLI. It's up to the motherboard makers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13705163*
> Not sure I understand what you're saying.
> 
> Ivy Bridge delayed doesn't really matter.
> 
> Intel already has Sandy Bridge, and Core i7 1st gen. Plus, SB-E will be out by the end of the year.
> 
> AMD on the other hand is 2 generations behind, they need Bulldozer out, NOW.


Ivy Bridge will be out in 2012 if the current information is to be believed. As far as SB-E goes, wait and see approach seems the best method.

However, I think I'd be more curious about the greater than i7 2600K products that Intel is planning on launching in Q3.

http://www.9to5mac.com/69736/ivy-bridge-chips-pushed-to-2012-macs-will-have-to-wait/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13699828*
> I understand JF, but....._and really it is a big but for us_.....we are not seeing any official feedback that states that the rumors are false. It would go a long way for us to hear from you in here that the buzz is false.....just a "we have not changed our projected/stated time-line" or as already stated by Rick Bergman at AMDs 1Q 2011 earnings call back in April "Our public roadmap has not changed." would suffice IMHO. That's all we are asking for.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13701079*
> Yep Yep, I remember. I just think that a current "official statement" from an official source at AMD saying "nothing has changed", would go a long way to put all of us AMD'rs at ease.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;13702860*
> JF-AMD
> please,
> what can you tell us? Anything? can we even expect any news on bulldozer at all?
> Sorry but all this BS flying around is getting out of hand..... Surley you can give us some sort of hint? Im trying to hold out but am losing hope....and time.. My wife wont agree to my new pc purachase agreement forever....
> thanks for your time,
> concerned amd customer.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13704586*
> to JF-AMD
> 
> what is the official line?
> 
> when will a release date for retail sales be given?
> 
> this post started aug-2 2010


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13704686*
> *Sigh* This, I believe, is a little more than just glancing statement. There are major review sites that are stating pretty much the same information, but this time it is apparent that the sources are different between review sites. This is something that AMD could head off at the pass if they would just publicly state that BD is still on track, that is not the case though and can cost AMD serious market-share......I am 100% AMD through-and-through, never purchased Intel before and I don't intend to, but I most certainly would help a friend out if there was negative gossip/rumors going around about them, that is simply what I am trying to do here. I want to see AMD get as much out of it's consumer-base based off of BD to help them with R&D for future hardware, that is not going to happen though if they don't refute negative rumors about product release dates when the rumors have reached this level of attention and are being broadcast with this amount of detail, as loud at they are and this late in the game.
> 
> *Shrug*


Seriously...

AMD has already officially announced that there is no delay despite everyone and their mother stating there is one. This was announced 6 days ago and is posted in the Hardware News section only hardly anyone noticed because they were too busy reading the rumor mill rather than fact. The fact is that if the company states the product isn't delayed, chances are that it's not delayed.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/5/26/amd-officially-denies-bulldozer-delay2c-but.aspx
Quote:


> In order to get to the bottom of this story, we have contacted Mr. Drew Prairie and Mr. Steve Howard, AMD's PR representatives close to the heart of the matter. We inquired about the statement Rick Bergman made and received the following answer:
> 
> *"Our public roadmap has not changed."*
> 
> So what is AMD planning here? A big paper launch to infuriate forums even more with customers eager to get a new high-end chip of the processor underdog? Standard PR tactics to make people go crazy over rumors similar to how Apple does it with their upcoming products? At this point we have no hard info to state "AMD delayed the much-awaited desktop version of Bulldozer." The thing is though, that there is plenty of indication, that at least some things are going wrong. Even though AMD representatives said that "Our public roadmap has not changed," the fact is that AMD's public roadmap has Bulldozer launch pegged for 2011. Then again, if the Bulldozer is really delayed, strong words from AMD executives to financial analysts may not be worth much then - after all, the CEO and SVP are saying the platform is on track.
> 
> At this point, to us this sounds more like "Sheesh there is nothing to see here, move along."


----------



## JCPUser

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is from AMD's presentation at Comptex today via the stream.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;13708935*
> look at the video @ 4:17. 60-90 days from TODAY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbIboX36Lhs&feature=player_embedded#at=259
> 
> Source
> 
> No June no July.


You can view the whole press conference on youtube link in the quote. Also, here is a cleaned up pic:










It official.... August silicon. Let us hope they paper launch before that and we get some benchmarks.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

All is lost ...all is lost there is no reason to live till august the horror...AMD you better not double cross us again in august or ill bone your dog.


----------



## Tonza

Ok, guess im ordering i7 2600k then. Why they cant even show some benchmarks?.


----------



## Chico212

Bye AMD


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;13709887*
> All is lost ...all is lost there is no reason to live till august the horror...AMD you better not double cross us again in august or ill bone your dog.

















sigged


----------



## geovas77

Those are really dissapointing news, I dont particularly care that the chips wont be available till August-September but the lack of any official benchmarks makes keeping my faith up for AMD kind of hard at this point.

I have been holding on upgrading for a long while now waiting for Bulldozer numbers to surface but this new delay is not helping any especialy since I just received my tax return and its kind of burning a hole in my pocket as Intel's offerings are great :/


----------



## tw33k

Don't worry guys...it'll be worth the wait (it has to be)


----------



## motoray

Well computex was nothing but apu apu apu were awesome apu apu blah blah.... I hate intel but if BD is not out before bf3 launches im going to go intel.


----------



## tha d0ctor

hmmm wait forever for a chip that probably won't out benchmark an i7 970/980x/990x clock for clock and buy a whole new platform to support it...... I'm sold

atleast AMD's financials are looking good, at a ~1% profit margin they are truly setting themselves up for longterm success and dominance of Intel


----------



## hazarada

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/amd-20...onference-live 14:30


----------



## pietro sk

no need to spit harsh words or panic









Conroe was launched on B2
Nehalem on C0, D0(servers)
SB on D1


----------



## purpleannex

Many people said there would be AMD fanboys who would feel an horrendous anticlimax once BD was released because they had such high hopes for it. Well, what's worse than a product being released and it failing to meet the high expectations?

What's worse? A product they daren't even release because it's so slow, that's what's worse.

They say it's the silicon that's "slow" and can't attain the clock speeds, but that actually means the architecture isn't good enough, because if it was, then the clock speeds wouldn't matter, unless the current stepping can't even pruduce cpu's at 3Ghz, in which case it's got a long way to go to match SB, effectively game over.

So I guess it's, "hello Sandy, would you like to play with my hard drive?".


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13715056*
> Many people said there would be AMD fanboys who would feel an horrendous anticlimax once BD was released because they had such high hopes for it. Well, what's worse than a product being released and it failing to meet the high expectations?
> 
> What's worse? A product they daren't even release because it's so slow, that's what's worse.
> 
> They say it's the silicon that's "slow" and can't attain the clock speeds, but that actually means the architecture isn't good enough, because if it was, then the clock speeds wouldn't matter, unless the current stepping can't even pruduce cpu's at 3Ghz, in which case it's got a long way to go to match SB, effectively game over.
> 
> So I guess it's, "hello Sandy, would you like to play with my hard drive?".


Who is this?

My 2nd rig is now going to be with a 2600K + P8Z68-V PRO, can't say I didn't wait for BD.

Best case scenario: BD will match SB 3 months from now, so what's the point of waiting?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13715350*
> Who is this?
> 
> My 2nd rig is now going to be with a 2600K + P8Z68-V PRO, can't say I didn't wait for BD.
> 
> Best case scenario: BD will match SB 3 months from now, so what's the point of waiting?


My build, since you insist on not knowing it, will be as follows:

Gigabyte 990FX-UD7
AMD BD FX8130P

Whew, that was hard. Don't have to worry about that Intel junk.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13610817*
> Yeah, $400 bucks,it kicked your precious Intel's butt back then.
> Pentium 4 proved that clock speed alone does not denote performance. It's like saying only engine horsepower in a car matters,when there are many other factors. So yes the Athon XP 3200+ 2.0Ghz had a high Cost/Performance value. The Athlon 64's were even better in Cost/Performance.
> AMD's CPU's even beat the $1,000 P4 EE,it took 5Ghz with extreme cooling just to beat the Athlon 64. Wait.. it's not ZOMG EXTREEEEEM EDISHUN with 3.xx GIGAHERTZ THE INTEL MUST BE FASTER!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD had Intel beat in every way with CPU's that were faster at lower speeds with less heat. Intel had to result back to Pentium & Pentium III technology with tons of modifications just to catch up.


mostly, when AMD was behind of Intel, you could get high Capability/Price, even you can get extra "unlock feature", PII 555 was a golden sample recently,when AMD was catching up with Intel in short time, they just priced similar to Intel, you will get less Capability/Price, again, if BD is competitive, can you imagine you still can receive the feature for higher C/P?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;13716055*
> My build, since you insist on not knowing it, will be as follows:
> 
> Gigabyte 990FX-UD7
> AMD BD FX8130P
> 
> Whew, that was hard. Don't have to worry about that Intel junk.


You mean the Intel junk we can buy today that's better than anything AMD has to offer?

Or the same Intel junk Bulldozer couldn't keep up with, and therefore caused BD's delay?


----------



## Lostintyme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13716242*
> You mean the Intel junk we can buy today that's better than anything AMD has to offer?
> 
> Or the same Intel junk Bulldozer couldn't keep up with, and therefore caused BD's delay


All I know is if I buy a Bulldozer motherboard now and my CPU in August, the system will match or beat a comparatively priced SB setup and *possibly* have more cores.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lostintyme;13716282*
> All I know is if I buy a Bulldozer motherboard now and my CPU in August, the system will match or beat a comparatively priced SB setup and *possibly* have more cores.


How would you know this?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lostintyme;13716282*
> All I know is if I buy a Bulldozer motherboard now and my CPU in August, *the system will match or beat a comparatively priced SB setup* and *possibly* have more cores.


That's questionable, no way to know that for sure - current events would suggest they will match SB, maybe winning in some categories. But why would you wait for something you can have right this second (and could've had since January)? Your argument holds no merit.


----------



## Choopy!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13716342*
> That's questionable, no way to know that for sure - current events would suggest they will match SB, maybe winning in some categories. But why would you wait for something you can have right this second (and could've had since January)? Your argument holds no merit.


Some great motherboard features for a good price IMO. More sata III ports, native support for higher clocked ram...just little stuff. The crosshair V for way cheaper than the sb's maximus. As far as just pure cpu performance...no real reason that I can muster. D:


----------



## Canis-X

All I can say is *Sigh*


----------



## maple_leafs182

Man, I don't want to wait anymore, I am so close to buying the 2500k. I hope AMD will release some benches at E3.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Go for it, the 2500k is an amazing processor. I'm sure BD will be very good too but there isn't much of reason to wait unless you are just more drawn to AMD's features (as Choopy mentioned)....


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

lol, i just got banned from another site for posting my thoughts....BD better be good...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Capwn*


hahahahahhhahhahahahhahadhdhhahhahahhahhahhahahaha hhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahhaha....
That is all.


It does offer some validation to those of us who were former AMD users that jumped ship all the way back in January and added additional gpus because our systems were now actually capable of using them.

Ahhhhh.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


Umm could we stick to the original thread's name and not drift away from the point do to fan-boys. Bottom line is august launch date announced "AGAIN" since amd has not approved or disproved the stock frequencies being higher or lower then 3 GHZ we just have to speculate "AGAIN" and btw is there any insight or hint that there will be a Asus crosshair V extreme?


Just about every decsktop cpu released now is ~3ghz. To match SB at stock, it will need to be either higher clocked or have a higher IPC.

If BD's IPC is up to the task, then the silicon can't even be ~3Ghz, otherwise it would match SB. Of course it may be up to 3ghz, but can't attain the sort of speeds that SB can in Turbo (remeber we can only talk of stock speeds as niether company supports OCing).

So if IPC ~equal to SB the silicon needs to reach ~3.8Ghz with Turbocore.

Now it may be that BD's silicon is clocking at 4Ghz stock with an easy 500Mhz turbocore on top, but AMD might want higher speeds than that, since this is the flip side to IPC.

So if at stock, it can already clock higher or equal to SB, that means the IPC is obviously inferior to SB, or they'd be releasing BD right now, and not waiting for another stepping.

I've no problem waiting for another stepping that's fine. But if the silicon is so slow compared to intel, it's going to take a lot of steppings to take it beyond the stock speeds to where we can take SB - ie ~5Ghz. But i'm not waiting for a product with very inferior IPC that needs to clock 500Mhz higher than SB to match it, and that in all likelihood won't ever clock higher than SB because the silicon's already slower.

As for Crosshair V, yes there's lots of info about it if you look.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Tnx for the link i knew about that one but I'm interested in the EXTREME edition







are there any rumors or news that it might hit the market soon? it would be a killer mobo if it where only released when the bd hits the shelves


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Just about every decsktop cpu released now is ~3ghz. To match SB at stock, it will need to be either higher clocked or have a higher IPC.

If BD's IPC is up to the task, then the silicon can't even be ~3Ghz, otherwise it would match SB. Of course it may be up to 3ghz, but can't attain the sort of speeds that SB can in Turbo (remeber we can only talk of stock speeds as niether company supports OCing).

So if IPC ~equal to SB the silicon needs to reach ~3.8Ghz with Turbocore.

Now it may be that BD's silicon is clocking at 4Ghz stock with an easy 500Mhz turbocore on top, but AMD might want higher speeds than that, since this is the flip side to IPC.

So if at stock, it can already clock higher or equal to SB, that means the IPC is obviously inferior to SB, or they'd be releasing BD right now, and not waiting for another stepping.

I've no problem waiting for another stepping that's fine. But if the silicon is so slow compared to intel, it's going to take a lot of steppings to take it beyond the stock speeds to where we can take SB - ie ~5Ghz. But i'm not waiting for a product with very inferior IPC that needs to clock 500Mhz higher than SB to match it, and that in all likelihood won't ever clock higher than SB because the silicon's already slower.

As for Crosshair V, yes there's lots of info about it if you look.


Great post.

I really felt it. I was hoping AMD was going to pull something amazing off, I think we were all asking a bit too much from them. David doesn't always beat Goliath, thats why its so special when he does.

Another thing of note is that people will want to compare the 8 core Bulldozer chip to the i7, and thats fine in multi-threading. Just remember when 4 cores are lost to gaming performance, the performance hit to SB is only about 20%~ vs 8 threads, whereas the the performance hit the bulldozer will be nearly 50%.


----------



## geovas77

I am sorry AMD, just couldnt hold out anymore and placed an order for a 2500k !

I hope BD will turn out great but sandy is too good to pass up any longer :/


----------



## Optimus_Prime

There is a spy in a minks men. Spy check


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


There is a spy in a minks men. Spy check










Ummm. It's "midst". There's a spy in your midst.

And yes, i'm one of them.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Who is this?

My 2nd rig is now going to be with a 2600K + P8Z68-V PRO, can't say I didn't wait for BD.

Best case scenario: BD will match SB 3 months from now, so what's the point of waiting?


NOBODY is telling you, that you must wait for this.
itÂ´s YOUR decision and money


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geovas77*


I hope BD will turn out great but sandy is too good to pass up any longer :/


I held out for BD myself. Cant wait any longer, besides, who knows what I am waiting for performance wise. I am happy with my Thuban but been itching to build another system. Looks like I will be adding a 2600K to my desk instead of BD in a few weeks.

Like my wife said "marry me now or lose me forever". Looks like I will be tying the knot with Intel. Bye, bye BD, dropping my $300 elsewhere this year.

After all these years with BD in the making (and HYPE) I don't see AMD getting it right with 12 more weeks at the drawing board. Maybe next year!


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;13722357*
> Tnx for the link i knew about that one but I'm interested in the EXTREME edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are there any rumors or news that it might hit the market soon? it would be a killer mobo if it where only released when the bd hits the shelves


Sorry I was too wound up about BD to notice the Extreme bit. Red and black is so yester-year (not even yesterday) anyway, going for an all black gigabyte myself - whether it's LGA 1155 or AM3+ is another can of worms altogether...


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;13723547*
> I held out for BD myself. Cant wait any longer, besides, who knows what I am waiting for performance wise. I am happy with my Thuban but been itching to build another system. Looks like I will be adding a 2600K to my desk instead of BD in a few weeks.
> 
> Like my wife said "marry me now or lose me forever". Looks like I will be tying the knot with Intel. Bye, bye BD, dropping my $300 elsewhere this year.
> 
> After all these years with BD in the making (and HYPE) I don't see AMD getting it right with 12 more weeks at the drawing board. Maybe next year!


marriage by extortion. how Machiavellian lol.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;13612611*
> Nice pointed AMD = more bang for buck Intel = give me your money biatch.... nuff said.


Well said.








AMD is doing some smart marketing with this new stuff.


----------



## Obakemono

What is up with all this "I'm going to get Intel now because BD is not on the shelves when I wanted it to be" stuff? It is getting O L D fast. Please stop the madness!!!
All I want is BD to be a great product. If it beats SB or Ivy bridge or Kudzu bridge, I don't care. This is a discussion about AMD and BD, not about threatening to build a SB system. Sheesh.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


What is up with all this "I'm going to get Intel now because BD is not on the shelves when I wanted it to be" stuff? It is getting O L D fast. Please stop the madness!!!
All I want is BD to be a great product. If it beats SB or Ivy bridge or Kudzu bridge, I don't care. This is a discussion about AMD and BD, not about threatening to build a SB system. Sheesh.










People want to have stuff "NOW! NOW! NOW!"; patience is a virtue not everyone possesses unfortunately.

For me I don't have an urgent need for a new computer so I'm more than happy to let AMD sort out any kinks so when I do get an octo-core it will run silky smooth.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


What is up with all this "I'm going to get Intel now because BD is not on the shelves when I wanted it to be" stuff? It is getting O L D fast. Please stop the madness!!!
All I want is BD to be a great product. If it beats SB or Ivy bridge or Kudzu bridge, I don't care. This is a discussion about AMD and BD, not about threatening to build a SB system. Sheesh.










Exactly,it's also silly that people are "hoping that BD does well" yet they're going on about giving Intel their money.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Exactly,it's also silly that people are "hoping that BD does well" yet they're going on about giving Intel their money.










Not everyone is willing to wait.

Some people are, some people aren't. Deal with it.

If BD was ready today, and if it as much as matched the 2600K clock for clock, I would've bought it.

I already waited 6 months for it, not gonna sit around waiting to see if it's as fast as SB. Why wait around when you can get it today?

If BD comes out 10% - 20% faster clock for clock, I will happily switch over to it upon release.


----------



## Tweeky

When will they ever return; when ...


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX;13709203*
> Seriously...
> 
> AMD has already officially announced that there is no delay despite everyone and their mother stating there is one. This was announced 6 days ago and is posted in the Hardware News section only hardly anyone noticed because they were too busy reading the rumor mill rather than fact. The fact is that if the company states the product isn't delayed, chances are that it's not delayed.
> 
> http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/5/26/amd-officially-denies-bulldozer-delay2c-but.aspx


Wait, I'm still confused, so which news is correct at this point, the link quoted above, or that presentation slide showing BD launch in 30-60 days?

Didn't JF state a billion times that Zambezi will be launched in Q2 2011?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

JF is in marketing, he only knows what they tell him which means he probably gets the relevant information about the same time we do.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;13730454*
> What is up with all this "I'm going to get Intel now because BD is not on the shelves when I wanted it to be" stuff? It is getting O L D fast. Please stop the madness!!!
> All I want is BD to be a great product. If it beats SB or Ivy bridge or Kudzu bridge, I don't care. This is a discussion about AMD and BD, not about threatening to build a SB system. Sheesh.


It's not about not being able to wait, we've been waiting a long time. It's about the risk of BD being outdated by the time they eventually release it.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13734394*
> JF is in marketing, he only knows what they tell him which means he probably gets the relevant information about the same time we do.


No, I have lots of info. I only share info with you that is public.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

JF
You know what I wish? I wish you would become the ultimate rebel. Who needs a job? Really? Just open up to us!! Reveal all that is BullDozer! Tell us what we have been waiting 5+years to hear! Tell us that it is worth the wait and delays! Tell us that it indeed will be better value/perfomance then Intel! Tell us that AMD will be back on top!

I have a whole downstairs set-up for an apartment you can just live there for free. That is if you just tell us..........LOL


----------



## Canis-X

^ This!! LOL


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;13737380*
> JF
> You know what I wish? I wish you would become the ultimate rebel. Who needs a job? Really? Just open up to us!! Reveal all that is BullDozer! Tell us what we have been waiting 5+years to hear! Tell us that it is worth the wait and delays! Tell us that it indeed will be better value/perfomance then Intel! Tell us that AMD will be back on top!
> 
> I have a whole downstairs set-up for an apartment you can just live there for free. That is if you just tell us..........LOL


I'll give you something to ponder, if BD was BETTER than SB, I guarantee you that AMD would be revealing such info.

You know how I know?

Just look at AMD's stance on Llano, they're not shy to tout that they are better than Intel, they have even made Bold claims that they will have the best APU every year.

AMD's strategy is "winning" ( do you see BD in this slide? )


AMD will have the Best APU EVERY Year. Llano isn't even launched yet, and they already proclaiming the title, this and EVERY year.


Of course it's not hard to proclaim the title when you're comparing Radeon cores vs Intel's IGP.

Heck, *3 months ago*, AMD was showing how much better Llano is vs. Sandy Bridge:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74[/ame]

Where are the BD is better than SB videos?

When it comes to Bulldozer, what do we know?

Rumours and Speculation, NOTHING official from AMD, ever.

Clearly, AMD releases info when they are confident, so it makes you wonder if BD performed on par with SB, and if that's really the cause for the delay. ALL we're left to do is speculate as usual.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;13734240*
> Wait, I'm still confused, so which news is correct at this point, the link quoted above, or that presentation slide showing BD launch in 30-60 days?
> 
> Didn't JF state a billion times that Zambezi will be launched in Q2 2011?


He's a server man what could he know?

After all this time Bullydozer is going to have to plow the Sandys or it's the end!

Certainly you don't expect me to put my old 640 in my new Sabertooth; what kind of cruelty is that?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13738438*
> I'll give you something to ponder, if BD was BETTER than SB, I guarantee you that AMD would be revealing such info.
> 
> Where are the BD is better than SB videos?
> 
> When it comes to Bulldozer, what do we know?
> 
> Rumours and Speculation, NOTHING official from AMD, ever.
> 
> Clearly, AMD releases info when they are confident, so it makes you wonder if BD performed on par with SB, and if that's really the cause for the delay. ALL we're left to do is speculate as usual.


You could buy a Sandy and be done with it?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13739188*
> You could buy a Sandy and be done with it?


That's the plan now.









Going with a 2600K + z68 board.


----------



## Tweeky

Certainly by now you've come to know that every thing you have heard that is bad about BD has come true ?

News Flash! From R&D, Dr. Techy - Even though the new silicon was a little faster it just could not take the heat. Bulldozer has died.


----------



## Nocturin

You's guys are fun to read.

E3's around the corner and I'm crossing my fingers that AMD will open Pandora's box; so to speak.

I try have no expectations, even though there is a lot of hype. It will be very interesting if BD does to SB what SB did to pII. Then there will be even moar(!) hype and I'll be doubly entertained, better than a good underdog in a boxing match.

Yea baby yea!

Can you guys clarify something about llano for me? Does llano use BD modules or a different arch?


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;13743991*
> You's guys are fun to read.
> 
> E3's around the corner and I'm crossing my fingers that AMD will open Pandora's box; so to speak.


Bulldozer is delayed there is nothing to see @ E3, sadly


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13736604*
> No, I have lots of info. I only share info with you that is public.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13738438*
> I'll give you something to ponder, if BD was BETTER than SB, I guarantee you that AMD would be revealing such info.
> 
> You know how I know?
> 
> Just look at AMD's stance on Llano, they're not shy to tout that they are better than Intel, they have even made Bold claims that they will have the best APU every year.
> 
> AMD's strategy is "winning" ( do you see BD in this slide? )
> 
> 
> AMD will have the Best APU EVERY Year. Llano isn't even launched yet, and they already proclaiming the title, this and EVERY year.
> 
> 
> Of course it's not hard to proclaim the title when you're comparing Radeon cores vs Intel's IGP.
> 
> Heck, *3 months ago*, AMD was showing how much better Llano is vs. Sandy Bridge:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
> 
> Where are the BD is better than SB videos?
> 
> When it comes to Bulldozer, what do we know?
> 
> Rumours and Speculation, NOTHING official from AMD, ever.
> 
> Clearly, AMD releases info when they are confident, so it makes you wonder if BD performed on par with SB, and if that's really the cause for the delay. ALL we're left to do is speculate as usual.












I'm sure my girls will enjoy playing farmville with the APU's.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Its a good point. If AMD was confident in BD they would be touting it more than they have been. That in no way means that it won't be good, just that its not as good as they want yet, hence the delay. I just wish that the thing had been ready and we could all be reading up on comparison tests and bench results right now instead of speculating....


----------



## Tatakai All

After years and many cpu's with amd I'm jumping ship and going with Intel before the prices go up when BD fails. So long amd, hope you make me eat my words.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13739450*
> Even though the new silicon was a little faster it just could not take the heat. Bulldozer has died.


Me of all people should expect many of the negative rumors about BD to be intel black propaganda.

I'm just worried, since when I got back into new stuff last Oct, intel is way out in the lead for performance.

So what are you talking about, where's that info from


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;13744068*
> Bulldozer is delayed there is nothing to see @ E3, sadly


I know. Just Holding out hope because of the #FX hashtag in a recent twitter post yesterday. To me, It makes more sense to launch at E3, it seems like most enthusiasts are some sort of gamer, and llano might bring more PC gamers into the mix after it's release. Pretty visuals are worse than crack. Borderlands looks soo much better on my measly computer than it does on my 360.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13745177*
> After years and many cpu's with amd I'm jumping ship and going with Intel before the prices go up when BD fails. So long amd, hope you make me eat my words.


You Skallywag!


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;13745265*
> You Skallywag!


Yes, amd has pushed me off the skallyway plank in to Intel waters.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

OK that's it I'm sick and tired of bad speculation about BD. What if AMD wand to play like this, complete silence let the competition make the rules, and talk trash about them and then at the launch BD is packing heat and clears a path to the crown ,,, i know is a long shot but maybe just maybe it will happen and BD will be outstanding i don't think that 5+ years where waisted in this architecture for nothing. AMD is not a branch of CPU that where formed in a night than disappeared the second. Les give them credit and just wait and see, that's all we can do right about know.Optimism people that's what we need now.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13745197*
> Me of all people should expect many of the negative rumors about BD to be intel black propaganda.
> 
> I'm just worried, since when I got back into new stuff last Oct, intel is way out in the lead for performance.
> 
> So what are you talking about, where's that info from


QFT.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13745177*
> After years and many cpu's with amd I'm jumping ship and going with Intel before the prices go up when BD fails. So long amd, hope you make me eat my words.


LOL,why so quick to assume "BD fails"?


----------



## Suprcynic

Seriously, BD isn't out yet? No wonder all those AMD execs quit. By the time it comes out Intel's next chips will be out and AMD will be forever behind. Actually Thuban was so sucky that it was probably too far behind at that point. Guess it's going to be another Intel 6 core build for me.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

I for one, am unconcerned by the delay. Makes perfect sense from a financial perspective, especially considering the much larger market that the low-mid level segment makes up. Just a guess, but I'd imagine they sidetracked Zambezi for the Fusion ramp up due to larger volume orders. They're just playing it smart in respects to what could potentially turn the tide as far as market share is concerned in my best estimate. Which notably, in the enthusiast & server segment, Bulldozer won't be capable of on it's own.

I see that everything is as per usual. Exempli gratia: Everyone's running around screaming that the sky is falling.

Sidenote: If correcting someone on their usage of a word, you should at least get it right whilst attempting to do so. The term is *amidst* btw


----------



## PureOC Jim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;13745502*
> I for one, am unconcerned by the delay. Makes perfect sense from a financial perspective, especially considering the much larger market that the low-mid level segment makes up. Just a guess, but I'd imagine they sidetracked Zambezi for the Fusion ramp up due to larger volume orders. They're just playing it smart in respects to what could potentially turn the tide as far as market share is concerned in my best estimate. Which notably, in the enthusiast & server segment, Bulldozer won't be capable of on it's own.
> 
> I see that everything is as per usual. Exempli gratia: Everyone's running around screaming that the sky is falling.
> 
> Sidenote: If correcting someone on their usage of a word, you should at least get it right whilst attempting to do so. The term is *amidst* btw


They are taking care of mainstream desktop with Llano 1st. makes perfect business sense. AMD is coming back.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

According to that AMD was worth the most when they had the fastest chips.

Just a thought.

Btw the last time AMD split their stock was in 2000.

09/25/783-for-2 Stock Split
09/24/793-for-2 Stock Split
09/22/802-for-1 Stock Split
09/27/823-for-2 Stock Split
07/22/832 for 1 Stock Split
08/21/002 for 1 Stock Split

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-dividends


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I don't mean to be a sourpuss, but AMD has a history of delays. And that does not bode well for them. Even if AMD releases Bulldozer in September it is a matter of 3-4 months until Ivy Bridge is released (estimation based on several sources, although potential for change). That isn't too much of a gap considering Intel's current offering with great pricing that is already out. Hard to convince people to wait for the AMD processor if there are no real world benchmarks or pricing.

I really hope AMD surprises us all and has 50% real world performance gain and introduces a new way to think about current architecture as well as beating Intel's pricing. I just don't think it is plausible to do all of that, but AMD has been the cheaper product for some time now and they are doing slightly different architecture, but the 50% performance increase in real world tasking while keeping the CPU cool and having good OC potential is a hard case to sell me. I hope I am wrong.

This industry needs some refreshing ideas, some stiff competition to Intel, and a reason to get people excited.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Not debating that Balla, but look at the market trend as far as AMD prior to them releasing the Clawhammer series. Long story short, they were in better financial position back then (with only a one year dip), to take advantage of launching the enthusiast versions. Now, not so much, having suffered through near 4 years straight of hemorrhaging cash flow. With only the settlement from Intel to tide this over.

Looking at that chart, which would you go for in their strategic position? Making the little guys (us) happy, or going for the long term dividends? I'd go for the solid paycheck with the larger corporations myself.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13745434*
> QFT.
> 
> LOL,why so quick to assume "BD fails"?


Guess I'm just frustrated and taking it out on BD. I've been waiting a long time for it, so I can overhaul my aging rig. With that moment of frustration gone, I'm just going to continue to wait it out. Doesn't make any sense really to wait for over a year and then bail out a few months before release.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Put differently, Intel....ummm..."catered" to the big corporations back in the days when AMD dominated the performance segment. Look where it got them. Were I in AMD's shoes, I'd be trying to take advantage of the same ideas. Though, not as underhanded an approach.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I'm just observing that when AMD was putting out the faster cpus they're stock was at its highest.

I'm not going to argue any sort of financial strategy as its not my cup of tea since I'm bias towards performance.

What does that mean? I dunno, but even when Intel was being heavy handed and using their OEM connections to one up AMD - AMD was still doing much better when they had the performance crown. It seems..., I'm not a financial analyst. I'm just looking at a graph and seeing a mountain (FX chips beating Pent 4s) turn into a downhill slide with almost no upside... Looking at the graph we see Phenom I launch date the stock is terrible, during that same time they had to split off globalfoundries because of financial issues. I see a slight comeback in stock prices with Phenom II and Thuban later on. However they're still nowhere near the former glory they had with the FX chip. I'm sure there are other factors, but I'm just making simple what is undoubtedly a complex situation.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13745045*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure my girls will enjoy playing farmville with the APU's.


cheap gaming notebooks, that´s the strong selling point Llano
(not only farmville, but L4D, dirt2 and more)


----------



## mrcool63

when is this actually supposed to come now?








its been like waiting... waiting... waiting... and more waiting....


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13746203*
> I'm just observing that when AMD was putting out the faster cpus they're stock was at its highest.
> 
> I'm not going to argue any sort of financial strategy as its not my cup of tea since I'm bias towards performance.
> 
> What does that mean? I dunno, but even when Intel was being heavy handed and using their OEM connections to one up AMD - AMD was still doing much better when they had the performance crown. It seems..., I'm not a financial analyst. I'm just looking at a graph and seeing a mountain (FX chips beating Pent 4s) turn into a downhill slide with almost no upside... Looking at the graph we see Phenom I launch date the stock is terrible, during that same time they had to split off globalfoundries because of financial issues. I see a slight comeback in stock prices with Phenom II and Thuban later on. However they're still nowhere near the former glory they had with the FX chip. I'm sure there are other factors, but I'm just making simple what is undoubtedly a complex situation.


I don't disagree with you on any particular point here at all. I'm just speculating on their stratagem in a more sensible way than the sky is falling types are.

For all we know, there may have been a problem with Glo Fo's yields of client/server bulldozer 32nm silicon when they ramped up to full production speed dictating a choice between which could net more profitability (they have indicated that server side products are still going according to schedule). A shortage of usable wafers could put them in the same scenario, with them being unable to deliver enough dies on time to meet initial orders. While simultaneously getting better yields from Llano than expected. Remember, not long ago, AMD changed their purchasing deal with Glo Fo for a price per usable die.

Point being, is that there are several different possibilities as to what reason they did what they have done. Not necessarily related to the vast majorities opining about it being performance related.

In short: A few words of calm in the midst of a ****storm.

Btw, I'd love to always have the chip with the best performance. However, it's a better long term strategy for us as consumers, not to kick the underdog when they are down. If Intel were in AMD's position market wise, I'd be buying from them regardless of my feelings concerning their business dealings. Which is why my next gpu's will probably be nVidia.


----------



## love9sick

I couldn't hold out. Sowwy.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;13746203*
> I'm just observing that when AMD was putting out the faster cpus they're stock was at its highest.
> 
> I'm not going to argue any sort of financial strategy as its not my cup of tea since I'm bias towards performance.
> 
> What does that mean? I dunno, but even when Intel was being heavy handed and using their OEM connections to one up AMD - AMD was still doing much better when they had the performance crown. It seems..., I'm not a financial analyst. I'm just looking at a graph and seeing a mountain (FX chips beating Pent 4s) turn into a downhill slide with almost no upside... Looking at the graph we see Phenom I launch date the stock is terrible, during that same time they had to split off globalfoundries because of financial issues. I see a slight comeback in stock prices with Phenom II and Thuban later on. However they're still nowhere near the former glory they had with the FX chip. I'm sure there are other factors, but I'm just making simple what is undoubtedly a complex situation.


Less than 5% of the customers buy on raw performance, probably less than 3% when all is said and done. You will go broke trying to be the king of raw performance.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;13745822*
> I don't mean to be a sourpuss, but AMD has a history of delays. And that does not bode well for them. Even if AMD releases Bulldozer in September it is a matter of 3-4 months until Ivy Bridge is released (estimation based on several sources, although potential for change). That isn't too much of a gap considering Intel's current offering with great pricing that is already out. Hard to convince people to wait for the AMD processor if there are no real world benchmarks or pricing.
> 
> I really hope AMD surprises us all and has 50% real world performance gain and introduces a new way to think about current architecture as well as beating Intel's pricing. I just don't think it is plausible to do all of that, but AMD has been the cheaper product for some time now and they are doing slightly different architecture, but the 50% performance increase in real world tasking while keeping the CPU cool and having good OC potential is a hard case to sell me. I hope I am wrong.
> 
> This industry needs some refreshing ideas, some stiff competition to Intel, and a reason to get people excited.


Even if they have a 50% increase they will still be 20% behind!
In fact AMD would have to double their performance just to make a good showing in September
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*











According to that AMD was worth the most when they had the fastest chips.

Just a thought.

Btw the last time AMD split their stock was in 2000.

09/25/783-for-2 Stock Split
09/24/793-for-2 Stock Split
09/22/802-for-1 Stock Split
09/27/823-for-2 Stock Split
07/22/832 for 1 Stock Split
08/21/002 for 1 Stock Split

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74...irol-dividends



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm just observing that when AMD was putting out the faster cpus they're stock was at its highest.

I'm not going to argue any sort of financial strategy as its not my cup of tea since I'm bias towards performance.

What does that mean? I dunno, but even when Intel was being heavy handed and using their OEM connections to one up AMD - AMD was still doing much better when they had the performance crown. It seems..., I'm not a financial analyst. I'm just looking at a graph and seeing a mountain (FX chips beating Pent 4s) turn into a downhill slide with almost no upside... Looking at the graph we see Phenom I launch date the stock is terrible, during that same time they had to split off globalfoundries because of financial issues. I see a slight comeback in stock prices with Phenom II and Thuban later on. However they're still nowhere near the former glory they had with the FX chip. I'm sure there are other factors, but I'm just making simple what is undoubtedly a complex situation.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Less than 5% of the customers buy on raw performance, probably less than 3% when all is said and done. You will go broke trying to be the king of raw performance.


If we look at the 10 year stock of Intel & AMD:


Doesn't this show that whoever has the best performance, is making the most money?


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Enough with the charts... show me performance charts not stok


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


Enough with the charts... show me performance charts not stok










http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=203


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=203


This comparison has nothing to do with BD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


This comparison has nothing to do with BD.


He asked for performance charts.

We don't have any BD benchmarks, so I showed him the next best thing.

If we had BD benchmarks, I would've linked to those instead.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


He asked for performance charts.

We don't have any BD benchmarks, so I showed him the next best thing.

If we had BD benchmarks, I would've linked to those instead.










True..
However it's useless to compare a older CPU to a brand new one. X6 1100T BE is a X4 965 BE with 2 more cores slapped on,also most programs do not use 6 cores either.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=203


----------



## 2010rig

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*   True..
However it's useless to compare a older CPU to a brand new one.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=203  
It would be nice if we had BD benchmarks... mmmkkay?

  
 You Tube


----------



## Mit Namso

I want my bulldozer

I want my bulldozer

give me my....


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


I want my bulldozer

I want my bulldozer

give me my....


mkay


----------



## Optimus_Prime

You are e mean person


----------



## ismet

How much are these things going to run?


----------



## Witchdoctor

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/1300_gigabyte_launches_new_amd_900_series_motherboards

There's the giggy board to have, where is the ROG veriant ?

won't be long now, Just need to find out if the CPU's will be worthy of a top flight mobo


----------



## Naturecannon

Nice dive bomb since the Computex press release.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;13779826*
> Nice dive bomb since the Computex press release.


Ouch.


----------



## landyzhu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Ouch.


it's time to buy in, you have chance to make your money double after bd launched


----------



## Mit Namso

where are the liano specs/info/leaks

aren't they due out next week or so


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *landyzhu*


it's time to buy in, you have chance to make your money double after bd launched










please stop trolling

http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/pcuser/ar...7/news032.html


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;13782866*
> please stop trolling
> 
> http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/pcuser/articles/1106/07/news032.html


OOOO! Pictures of packaging? WINNING

_take into account i have no idea how legitimate this is, but i'm a sucker for metal tins, they're fun to stuff with junk.







_

Maybe july 6th is D-Day, as mentioned in the above article.
I cannot allow myself to get excited, no sir. I must wait until next year. No expectations, no letdown.


----------



## Canis-X

English version with more pics....

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/43379-amd-demos-bulldozer-at-e3.html










Edit:

Looks like the stock HSF hasn't changed much, if any....


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;13787327*
> English version with more pics....
> 
> http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/43379-amd-demos-bulldozer-at-e3.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Looks like the stock HSF hasn't changed much, if any....


But how do we even know if BD is behind that HSF?


----------



## djleakyg

Does the new Bulldozer have some sort of hypery-threading solution?


----------



## Nocturin

Because it's got 8 cores represented in overdrive?
On the photo of the overdrive, one core was a 3614mhz, so this means the stock clock will be 3.6?! 4.6 turbo on 1 used core? I was hoping something would be at E3

Look at me, I'm dancing, I'm DanCIN <---borderlands

BD has "strong" threads, but i'm not sure how that compares to HT.

Meltdown in 3...2...1...


----------



## Iris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg;13788557*
> Does the new Bulldozer have some sort of hypery-threading solution?


LOL, How many times has this been answered???









No, AMD uses real cores. 8 Core/8 Threads for BD shown there....


----------



## djleakyg

heard there was gonna be 4 way hyperthreading though. sorry i didn't read through all 8 million posts. normally i do though. do you think this will out perform the Nehalem Core I line?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg;13789439*
> heard there was gonna be 4 way hyperthreading though. sorry i didn't read through all 8 million posts. normally i do though. do you think this will out perform the Nehalem Core I line?


I heard it has some sort of backwards hyperthreading.
IMO,it will be faster than the 1st . gen Core i7,and at least be as fast as the 2500K,if not it's bad news for AMD.
Just look 1 page back to see how their stock has plummeted from the BD delay.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


But how do we even know if BD is behind that HSF?


Really??







How do we know that you are really you....now that is a question for the ages....LOL


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13789558*
> I heard it has some sort of backwards hyperthreading.


You obviously haven't been reading these threads. I have said dozens of times that the concept will not work. If you don't believe me, sit down with another person and write a letter together and let me know if that was faster than doing it yourself. Combining cores on a single thread is a losing proposition because threads are generally dependent.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13793834*
> Combining cores on a single thread


isnt that what flex fpu is sorta doing tho? 128bit for 2 cores or 256 for 1


----------



## JF-AMD

Single scheduler. It is actually closer to SMT than anything.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg;13789439*
> heard there was gonna be 4 way hyperthreading though. sorry i didn't read through all 8 million posts. normally i do though. do you think this will out perform the Nehalem Core I line?


You should, its entertaining


----------



## tw33k

https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/InsideXbox/E3-2011-AMD-and-the-new-eyefinitiy-technology

Don't know how many have seen this. Bulldozer comes in at 4:25


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg;13788557*
> Does the new Bulldozer have some sort of hypery-threading solution?


NObecause real cores are BETTER


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k;13806789*
> https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/InsideXbox/E3-2011-AMD-and-the-new-eyefinitiy-technology
> 
> Don't know how many have seen this. Bulldozer comes in at 4:25


Had to download the video to watch it, and the only thing I got out of it was that Bulldozer will be released LATE summer.


----------



## Tatakai All

Yeah late summer.


----------



## Canis-X

AMD Confirms FX Pricing: Mid-$300 for an 8-Core Processor


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


AMD Confirms FX Pricing: Mid-$300 for an 8-Core Processor


I still don't get what's up with the white square behind the chip shown on the front of the box?
It makes the CPU look out of place...oh well the box art is still very cool.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

So close, so close i can taste it


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


AMD Confirms FX Pricing: Mid-$300 for an 8-Core Processor


Oooooooo. 40 watts per hz in turbo would let this thing clock to 4.7ghz @130watts TDP on less than 8 cores. My math right???


----------



## Tatakai All

All the cash I saved for my rig overhaul is squirming in my bank account and shouting, "SPEND ME! SPEND ME NOW!". Crosshair V, low latency Mushkin DRR3's, another GTX 580 and a FX-8130P to set it all off.


----------



## raisethe3

So then Bulldozer is delayed? Thought it was supposedly be Q2 as AMD stated all along. Thought those "delayed rumors" were fake?

*looks at watch* Yeah, its still June 9th 10PM here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13807011*
> Yeah late summer.


----------



## aweir

I see only the black edition will be released. But I'm white, will that matter?


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13816042*
> All the cash I saved for my rig overhaul is squirming in my bank account and shouting, "SPEND ME! SPEND ME NOW!". Crosshair V, low latency Mushkin DRR3's, another GTX 580 and a FX-8130P to set it all off.


Yup, same.







Although, I have already invested in my cpu loop, Crucial M4, & a reference 6950 (just today) to have for bd when it hits. Ram is under control too, with what's been in my sig. Only thing left is my mobo (UD7 next week if it shows in stock by then) & the 8130P dozer.


----------



## 2010rig

BD 8 Core ES vs 2500K running @ 4 GHZ. Care to comment on this JF-AMD? Is there any validity to this that could explain this performance?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QRKdyBzKQ[/ame]


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;13818256*
> Yup, same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although, I have already invested in my cpu loop, Crucial M4, & a reference 6950 (just today) to have for bd when it hits. Ram is under control too, with what's been in my sig. Only thing left is my mobo (UD7 next week if it shows in stock by then) & the 8130P dozer.


Nice! I just pulled the trigger today on the Crosshair V and holding out for some possible deals on the ram. If I can get rid of my stashed GTX 480 then a cpu loop would be a nice addition.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13818567*
> Nice! I just pulled the trigger today on the Crosshair V and holding out for some possible deals on the ram. If I can get rid of my stashed GTX 480 then a cpu loop would be a nice addition.


Sweet! =D I nearly ordered the UD7 from NCIX until I saw the price. I think they're gouging us right now. I mean the Egg had the CHV for $239, vs. NCIX's UD7 @ $266 (+$20 w/ ground shipping)?? Meh, I'll wait for the Egg to get them in. Never cared much for NCIX anyway.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;13818735*
> Sweet! =D I nearly ordered the UD7 from NCIX until I saw the price. I think they're gouging us right now. I mean the Egg had the CHV for $239, vs. NCIX's UD7 @ $266 (+$20 w/ ground shipping)?? Meh, I'll wait for the Egg to get them in. Never cared much for NCIX anyway.


I was seriously eye-ing that mobo. I really wanted to try it out and go with the UD7 since I've heard some really good things about Gigabyte boards and have only owned Asus mobo's. In the end I'm the type of guy who goes to a familiar restaurant and orders the same thing.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13818962*
> I was seriously eye-ing that mobo. I really wanted to try it out and go with the UD7 since I've heard some really good things about Gigabyte boards and have only owned Asus mobo's. In the end I'm the type of guy who goes to a familiar restaurant and orders the same thing.


Lol! This MSi is my 1st non-Asus board since...ummm...1999. Which housed my last Intel, a P3 Coppermine. Sometimes it's good to try something different


----------



## Mit Namso

most all rumors/speculation are about FX8, I want to hear about the FX4 and 6

and when they say $320 for FX8, places like newegg would probably sell at $320 right

I seem to remember thats what happened with the average 6950, $270 was the leaked price, and newegg had plenty at 270


----------



## Lostintyme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;13818962*
> I was seriously eye-ing that mobo. I really wanted to try it out and go with the UD7 since I've heard some really good things about Gigabyte boards and have only owned Asus mobo's. In the end I'm the type of guy who goes to a familiar restaurant and orders the same thing.


I usually order the same thing at restaurants multiple times also, but my last 3 boards have been an M4A785M from ASUS, a TA890FXE from BIOSTAR and now a 990FX UD7 soon.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Ummm will there be an ASUS crosshair V extreme edition?????


----------



## CryWin

http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/06/...m-innovations/

Quote:



1. Testing conducted by AMD performance labs using a 2011 Sabine Reference Design â€œTorpedoâ€ showed 663 minutes using (11:03 min) Windows Idle as a â€œRestingâ€ metric. â€œActiveâ€ battery life using FutureMarkÂ® 3DMarkâ„¢06 as workload test showed 168 minutes (2:48 min). Intel system showed 527 minutes (8:47 min) using Windows Idle as a â€œRestingâ€ metric. â€œActiveâ€ battery life using FutureMarkÂ® 3DMarkâ„¢06 as workload test showed 106 minutes (1:46 min). All battery life calculations are based on using a 6 cell Li-Ion 62.16Whr battery pack at 98% utilization for Win Idle and Mobilemark07 workload and 96% utilization for 3DMark06 workload. AMD defines â€œall-dayâ€ battery life as a score of 8+ hours. Press Sample â€" AMD â€" A8-3500M Quad â€"Core API with Radeon HD 6690G2 Dual Graphics Switchable Graphics with Discrete off, Chipset AMD A70 FCH, 4GB 1333 MHz System Memory, Window 7 64 Bit, 62 Whr Battery. Intel Retail System â€" Intel Core I3-2310M with Intel HD 300 Graphics, Chipset Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset family, 4GB/1333MHz System Memory, Windows 7 64 Bit, 62 Whr Battery


----------



## thestef

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


BD 8 Core ES vs 2500K running @ 4 GHZ. Care to comment on this JF-AMD? Is there any validity to this that could explain this performance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QRKdyBzKQ


Is this even real? AMD 8core bulldozer 5.66 score compared to Intel 2500 at 5.79 ???

Any one knows what the Cinebench score is for a 4Ghz AMD 1090T or 1100T CPU?


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thestef*


Is this even real? AMD 8core bulldozer 5.66 score compared to Intel 2500 at 5.79 ???

Any one knows what the Cinebench score is for a 4Ghz AMD 1090T or 1100T CPU?


It's most likely real. Apparently AMD had problems being competitive with that B0 stepping:

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...ce-issues.aspx

And a stock Thuban probably gets 5.7x or so in Cinebench...


----------



## Optimus_Prime

People leave it a rest already IT'S A B0 model....


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


BD 8 Core ES vs 2500K running @ 4 GHZ. Care to comment on this JF-AMD? Is there any validity to this that could explain this performance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QRKdyBzKQ


Beats the hell out of me. I am sitting on a patio overlooking the mediterranean and enjoying a cool drink.

All I will tell all of you is that if you are looking at benchmarks of engineering samples, just know that people who have their hands on samples are probably a generation or two behind. Sure, there are benchmarks, but they won't reflect production. Typically they get ahold of an old stepping as the OEMs get the new steppings.


----------



## thestef

So you bassicaly telling us the production chip will be more powerfull, can't wait to see what it can do.

Oh yeah, and I'm sitting in my cubical, 15 minutes to go before leaving for vacation.


----------



## Mit Namso

no vacations allowed


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13823115*
> Beats the hell out of me. I am sitting on a patio overlooking the mediterranean and enjoying a cool drink.
> 
> All I will tell all of you is that if you are looking at benchmarks of engineering samples, just know that people who have their hands on samples are probably a generation or two behind. Sure, there are benchmarks, but they won't reflect production. Typically they get ahold of an old stepping as the OEMs get the new steppings.


I cannot begin to explain how jealous I am with regards to your current surroundings.







I have to give you credit Mr. Fruehe, you are admittedly a server guy, but still continue to post for the sake of AMD on enthusiast sites, sometimes taking a beating. Enjoy your well-deserved vacation.


----------



## JF-AMD

Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.


----------



## ccslua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13825887*
> Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.










LOL nice one sir.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13823115*
> Beats the hell out of me. I am sitting on a patio overlooking the mediterranean and enjoying a cool drink.
> 
> All I will tell all of you is that if you are looking at benchmarks of engineering samples, just know that people who have their hands on samples are probably a generation or two behind. Sure, there are benchmarks, but they won't reflect production. Typically they get ahold of an old stepping as the OEMs get the new steppings.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13825887*
> Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.


Well played sir, sounds like you're at an amazing spot. I will refrain myself from asking any follow up questions.

Enjoy your vacation!


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13825887*
> Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.


Well, technically you are an enthusiast if you enjoy the technology behind computing. Given your occupation, I would have to think you enjoy it somewhat.







Granted, I can see how some might assume that a love of computing would equate to a love of overclocking/modding.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Enjoy the vacation JF, and thank you for all that you've done sir.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13823115*
> Beats the hell out of me. I am sitting on a patio overlooking the mediterranean and enjoying a cool drink.
> 
> All I will tell all of you is that if you are looking at benchmarks of engineering samples, just know that people who have their hands on samples are probably a generation or two behind. Sure, there are benchmarks, but they won't reflect production. Typically they get ahold of an old stepping as the OEMs get the new steppings.


Thank you for putting some of these rumors to rest finally.

Once again thank you for taking the time to post. And yes, you are the server guy.

Simon hasn't visited OCN in awhile, and now all the desktop guys are looking for answers from you.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestef;13822138*
> Is this even real? AMD 8core bulldozer 5.66 score compared to Intel 2500 at 5.79 ???
> 
> Any one knows what the Cinebench score is for a 4Ghz AMD 1090T or 1100T CPU?


See below quote.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;13822405*
> It's most likely real. Apparently AMD had problems being competitive with that B0 stepping:
> 
> http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/5/30/amd-delays-bulldozer-citing-performance-issues.aspx
> 
> And a stock Thuban probably gets 5.7x or so in Cinebench...


See below quote.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;13822422*
> People leave it a rest already IT'S A B0 model....


Thanks OP. I think some here have issues with the text being displayed, as they cannot read well.


----------



## gurusan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13825887*
> Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.


Why have you chosen to post on multiple enthusiast forums if you aren't to be confused with an enthusiast? Also underclocking is the exact same process as overclocking, therefore you basically did just class yourself as an enthusiast.

I have followed your posts and blog closely and honestly it appears as if your role is a Bulldozer apologetic.

I am an enthusiast and but also employed in the rack server business and so far Bulldozer really is all talk, promises, and delays. This doesn't really mean much in the computer world, but yet still, people are alarmed by the lack of information from AMD and and the fail benches posted recently.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Well, technically you are an enthusiast if you enjoy the technology behind computing. Given your occupation, I would have to think you enjoy it somewhat.







Granted, I can see how some might assume that a love of computing would equate to a love of overclocking/modding.










I have access to bulldozer samples if I wanted them, but I haven't built a system yet. That should tell you that if I had the choice between debugging systems or being on my bike, the choice is clear.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


Why have you chosen to post on multiple enthusiast forums if you aren't to be confused with an enthusiast? Also underclocking is the exact same process as overclocking, therefore you basically did just class yourself as an enthusiast.

I have followed your posts and blog closely and honestly it appears as if your role is a Bulldozer apologetic.

I am an enthusiast and but also employed in the rack server business and so far Bulldozer really is all talk, promises, and delays. This doesn't really mean much in the computer world, but yet still, people are alarmed by the lack of information from AMD and and the fail benches posted recently.


I have posted on enthusiast forums because a.) people want to talk about technology and b.) occasionally people in the server world are in these forums, as you have indicated.

I am by no means apologetic for my product, but I am also not hyping my product. I will let the results play out because I believe we have a great product.

Since you are on the topic of "all talk", I will patiently sit back and watch on Sandybridge EP (promised for Q3) and Ivy Bridge (promised for Q4.) It will be interesting to see where they actually land. They might be "all talk, promises and delays" as well. But the reason I don't jump in and start criticizing them is that this is a comlicated business. We are putting hundreds of millions of transistors onto a compressed piece of sand about the size of your thumbnail. Everyone needs to cut the people in the semiconductor business a bit of slack, this is complicated work.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have access to bulldozer samples if I wanted them, but I haven't built a system yet. That should tell you that if I had the choice between debugging systems or being on my bike, the choice is clear.


Fair enough. It's a pleasure to see interaction with representatives from companies in which we do business on a semi-personal level regardless. Enjoy your vacation.


----------



## Tatakai All

Wouldn't mind checking out a Mediterranean country some day. Guess Lanikai will just have to hold me off until then.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thestef*


Is this even real? AMD 8core bulldozer 5.66 score compared to Intel 2500 at 5.79 ???

Any one knows what the Cinebench score is for a 4Ghz AMD 1090T or 1100T CPU?


You have a 1090T @ 4Ghz in your signiture, run Cinebench yourself!!!?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Wouldn't mind checking out a Mediterranean country some day. Guess Lanikai will just have to hold me off until then.


I hear Lybia's nice this time of year...


----------



## purpleannex

Hey Jf, where about's are you in the Med? We go down to the south of france most years to visit family, just across the gulf from Saint Tropez.


----------



## Catscratch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


I hear Lybia's nice this time of year...


Hahahhaha. If Gaddafi had played well, it was


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13831603*
> Hey Jf, where about's are you in the Med? We go down to the south of france most years to visit family, just across the gulf from Saint Tropez.


Sitting in villa, having a drink and looking over the amalfi coast. Life doesn't suck. We have wifi and the phones don't really work, 1 bar if you stand on the roof.


----------



## purpleannex

Very nice


----------



## Chranny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13831515*
> I hear Lybia's nice this time of year...


Sunny, with a hint of F-16.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chranny;13838446*
> Sunny, with a hint of F-16.


Okay, that one got me to chuckle.


----------



## alberto8793

Any one have any idea when the hell they will actually release these? i am dieng to upgrade, and i am tired of waiting... i was thinking i would get an i5 2400..... but i realllllllly wanted a bulldozer, when dooooo the come out>!>!>>!>!>>!>!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *alberto8793*


Any one have any idea when the hell they will actually release these? i am dieng to upgrade, and i am tired of waiting... i was thinking i would get an i5 2400..... but i realllllllly wanted a bulldozer, when dooooo the come out>!>!>>!>!>>!>!


based on the latest reports, you're looking at July-August.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chranny*


Sunny, with a hint of F-16.


And depleted uranium for the next few billion years

I bet BD won't be unlockable


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


I bet BD won't be unlockable


It's obviously unlocked. http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces...processor.aspx
Will _all_ of the FX CPU's have a unlocked multiplier? IMO,probably not. But,I hope I am wrong,lol.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


It's obviously unlocked. http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces...processor.aspx
Will _all_ of the FX CPU's have a unlocked multiplier? IMO,probably not. But,I hope I am wrong,lol.


At the E3 event interview, the AMD guy interviewed said that ALL FX processors are unlocked, watch @ 5:45. 
https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Insi...tiy-technology

Plus, not sure if you've seen this:
http://emm.msi.com/display.php?List=33&N=1150

Quote:



With just the a single push of a button OC Genie II not only increases your processor and memory speeds, it also unlocks up to 8 CPU cores.


Not sure how much validity there is to that, and which processors that will work with.


----------



## qwertymac93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


At the E3 event interview, the AMD guy interviewed said that ALL FX processors are unlocked, watch @ 5:45.


I think he meant "unlocked" FSB clocks, not multipliers. Only black editions have unlocked multi's.
While technically sandy bridge has an unlocked reference clock, good luck overclocking that way.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *qwertymac93*


I think he meant "unlocked" FSB clocks, not multipliers. Only black editions have unlocked multi's.
While technically sandy bridge has an unlocked reference clock, good luck overclocking that way.


I see - that's not the impression I got.

He said "_The entire line is unlocked, meaning you can overclock them all_."

Plus it's being marketed as an unlocked processor, and notice in the banner below it does say Black Edition in the top left corner.


----------



## Mit Namso

no I mean disabled cores that can be unlocked

if they are even made that way, I and I guess even if they had disabled cores, a FX4 could not run as a 5core, or FX6 as 7core...


----------



## qwertymac93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


He said "_The entire line is unlocked, meaning you can overclock them all_."


Which is exactly what lead me to believe he was talking about reference clocks and not multi's. All amd cpus are overclock-able, so there is no reason to mention that BD will be too, unless you are comparing directly to sandy bridge, which has a more or less "locked" reference("FSB") clock.
If all FX chips have unlocked multipliers, then what is the point of the black editions anyway?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


no I mean disabled cores that can be unlocked

if they are even made that way, I and I guess even if they had disabled cores, a FX4 could not run as a 5core, or FX6 as 7core...


Oh, well did you see the link I posted to in post #1339?

In MSI's press release it says you can unlock up to 8 cores, so this wouldn't apply to any Phenom II chips.

So, IF that is true, you'd be able to unlock a 6 core to an 8 core for example. Whether that's really possible or not, we won't know until these chips are released and people start playing around with them.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *qwertymac93*


Which is exactly what lead me to believe he was talking about reference clocks and not multi's. All amd cpus are overclock-able, so there is no reason to mention that BD will be too, unless you are comparing directly to sandy bridge, which has a more or less "locked" reference("FSB") clock.
If all FX chips have unlocked multipliers, then what is the point of the black editions anyway?


I hear what you're saying and it makes sense.

And these are the types of questions that are better answered by AMD reps.









The only marketing materials and info out there lead one to believe they're all unlocked and Black Editions.

What's the point?

To let you know the FX series is fully unlocked. I've yet to see any model numbers or info on their processors that have locked multipliers, have you?

Besides speculation, have you read anything that suggests they'll have processors with locked multi's? If so, please point me to it.









These are the initial 4 processors set to be released. Perhaps later on they'll release cheaper models with locked multi's. 









These are the ones that are supposed to come out 2-3 months after initial release with higher clocks. Once again, they suggest they're all Black Edition.





4 core retail box which says Black Edition. 









8 Core retail box.


----------



## Mit Namso

hopefully they mean it in the good/real core unlocking way, and not just as a cheesy advertizing way


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *qwertymac93*


Which is exactly what lead me to believe he was talking about reference clocks and not multi's. All amd cpus are overclock-able, so there is no reason to mention that BD will be too, unless you are comparing directly to sandy bridge, which has a more or less "locked" reference("FSB") clock.
*If all FX chips have unlocked multipliers, then what is the point of the black editions anyway?*


my thoughts exactly.


----------



## hazarada

i remember reading bulldozer desktop chips are manufactured via chip harvesting meaning the 6/4 core ones could potentially unlock extra cores


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13842779*
> 8 Core retail box.


Is that supposed to be the AMD logo in the background? Looks like an arrow


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;13845605*
> Is that supposed to be the AMD logo in the background? Looks like an arrow


I noticed that too. It is suppose to be the other half of the X. But they kinda made it look like an X and an arrow moving upward.

Maybe it means upward performance?


----------



## purpleannex

Er... what do think the AMD logo is if it isn't an arrow?

Look again, the design on the box is clearly based on the AMD logo, simple.


----------



## Slappa

I'll post this over here to save John the time of replying twice

Heres what he posted at XS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*

Based on this conversation I have a feeling nobody here is in the semiconductor business, so let me try to explain it to you.

Engineering samples are designed to validate the design and for partners to validate their systems. They are not meant for benchmarking.

There are multiple steppings of samples, comparing one stepping to another tells you nothing unless you know WHY the stepping changed.

When we make engineering samples, we target the best yield, not the highest performance. Then we have more chips to work with. Typically you get a couple of the highest clock speed anyway, those typically stay in our labs, so it is unlikley that you see those out in the wild.

We don't even do any real performance analysis until we get the final silicon. Prior to that, we are totally focused on design validation.

Performance is determined based on the following:

1. The processor
2. The processor microcode
3. The BIOS
4. The Operating system
5. The drivers
6. The compiler code

So, unless you are looking at final silicon and you have all of the other pieces in place, making a statement about the performance of ES chips is completely pointless.

Which is why we just don't comment on those numbers. They probably aren't real. And if they are, they are not representative of what people will see when they get the real products in their hands.

Imagine making a cake. You start with a pile ingredients. You put it all in a mixing bowl. You stir it up. You put it in the oven. You let it cook. You take it out. You put frosting on it.

You are all looking at bowlful of batter and arguing about whether or not it is appetizing.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Slappa*   I'll post this over here to save John the time of replying twice

Heres what he posted at XS  
Cool thanks.

Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?

I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors and delayed again.

It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.

I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone. A lot of people in this forum got tired of waiting and went with Sandy Bridge.

I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video. 
  
 You Tube


----------



## Slappa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Cool thanks.

Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?

I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors.

It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.

I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video. I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone.


To be honest, I highly doubt the discretion is a result of an issue with BD itself.

This is a brand new architecture built from the ground up over the course of 5 years. There is heavy NDA and there has been little no leaks of the actual final retail performance. With such a complex business, there could be an infinite amount of reasons for the "tight lipped" nature of this release.

Llano on the other hand is based on modified K10 cores with a 6XXX GPU on die. Theres no doubt that this graphical capability can whip anything Intel has integrated. I think that is what they are trying to demonstrate. And as well, llano is their mainstream product which will produce the most revenue for AMD. So they decide to release a few numbers (as llano will be out before BD anyways). BD is mainly for server clients, and the very small niche market that this community is.

I don't think there is a correlation between BD having issues/delays/bad performance and not seeing any benchmark numbers. Even the very nature of these supposed "delays" is just speculation.

At the end of the day, we cannot really assume anything until we have the processor in hand. I personally think BD will be a success. And that doesn't mean it will blow away Intel. However it will be a huge step forward. If it does crush Intel and return the crown, then all the better for everyone.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13852503*
> Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?


Llano has already been shipped to OEM's a couple of months ago. That suggests they already have pretty good yields on Llano compared to Bulldozer. Besides, it's not as if AMD didn't have their share of troubles with Llano.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13852540*
> Llano on the other hand is based on modified K10 cores with a 6XXX GPU on die.


Technically, while the GPU in Llano are called HD 6xxx, they're based on Redwood (HD 55x0/56x0) graphics.


----------



## Mit Namso

I've only been waiting since about end of april, and I'm sick of waiting


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13854969*
> I've only been waiting since about end of april, and I'm sick of waiting


that's it?

Some of us have been hearing that Bulldozer would be launched in 2009 back in 2007!
Quote:


> *"Bulldozer" to be "highest performing processor core" ever*
> 
> AMD is preparing an all-new PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Due out in the first half of 2009, the new architecture is codenamed Bulldozer.


Quote:


> *Bulldozer is the name, crushing Intel is the game*
> 
> But what about Bulldozer? The big news is that it will form the basis of AMD's first massively multi-core PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Bulldozer will also be fully compatible with AMD's so-called M-SPACE modular CPU design


Quote:


> *How fast is she, mister?*
> 
> It all sounds pretty impressive on paper. But how fast will this 16-core chip be in practice? Well, according to AMD, Bulldozer is designed to be nothing less than "the highest performing single and multi-threaded compute core in history".
> If AMD is to be believed, Bulldozer will improve upon every metric of CPU performance. From performance per watt to outright multi-threaded performance and old school single-threaded oomph, it's promised Bulldozer will be the new king.












http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/graphics-cards/amd-plots-16-core-super-cpu-for-2009-146488


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13852503*
> Cool thanks.
> 
> Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?
> 
> I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors and delayed again.
> 
> It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.
> 
> I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone. A lot of people in this forum got tired of waiting and went with Sandy Bridge.
> 
> I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74


Did they do a performance demonstation or publish a benchmark? There is a big difference. We might do a performance demonstration of Interlagos prior to launch, but benchmarks will come out at launch.

Plus, Llano is in the hands of OEMs right now, it is a shipping product.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13855650*
> Did they do a performance demonstation or publish a benchmark? There is a big difference. We might do a performance demonstration of Interlagos prior to launch, but benchmarks will come out at launch.
> 
> Plus, Llano is in the hands of OEMs right now, it is a shipping product.


That video is from February, and yes it's a performance demonstration.

Llano is being released in June. Bulldozer was originally supposed to be released in June. Yet, I still haven't seen a performance demonstration on Bulldozer, only on Llano that's really my point.

I do recall you saying a Q2 release for BD, what exactly happened to that?

What's the real reason for the delay? Are these articles accurate in what they're reporting?

Personally, I just wonder if 90 days is enough time to create a new stepping, go into production, and then launch within that time frame.

Today I realized that I've been hearing the hype about Bulldozer for over 4 years, so it kinda explains why I'm kinda fed up of hearing the hype, without any proof to back up such hype. See my post above yours.

I know you're a server guy, and I understand none of this is your fault. But you're the closest voice we have to anyone from AMD, and we have no one else to ask these questions to. I do apologize for you having to put up with us, and I thank you for taking the time to participate in these threads.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13855747*
> That video is from February, and yes it's a performance demonstration.
> 
> Llano is being released in June. Bulldozer was originally supposed to be released in June. Yet, I still haven't seen a performance demonstration on Bulldozer, only on Llano that's really my point.
> 
> I do recall you saying a Q2 release for BD, what exactly happened to that?
> 
> What's the real reason for the delay? Are these articles accurate in what they're reporting?
> 
> Personally, I just wonder if 90 days is enough time to create a new stepping, go into production, and then launch within that time frame.
> 
> Today I realized that I've been hearing the hype about Bulldozer for over 4 years, so it kinda explains why I'm kinda fed up of hearing the hype, without any proof to back up such hype. See my post above yours.
> 
> I know you're a server guy, and I understand none of this is your fault. But you're the closest voice we have to anyone from AMD, and we have no one else to ask these questions to. I do apologize for you having to put up with us, and I thank you for taking the time to participate in these threads.


May to August is still = to Q2

90 days is not enough to ramp a new stepping, which is why that is not the case. They already have production chips. The semi-conductor industry is complex. I doubt there is any major problems with BD like there was with Phenom I.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13856174*
> May to August is still = to Q2
> 
> 90 days is not enough to ramp a new stepping, which is why that is not the case. They already have production chips. The semi-conductor industry is complex. I doubt there is any major problems with BD like there was with Phenom I.


Last I checked.

Q1 = Jan - Mar
Q2 = April - June ( BD's release was scheduled for June 20th )
Q3 = July - Sept
Q4 = Oct - Dec

I know 90 days is not enough, which is why I'm wondering what's really going on, and trying to get an official answer, not a speculative one.

If you read the article I linked it says:
Quote:


> Early this week it turned out that AMD had advised its partners that its next-generation high-performance desktop chips would only be launched in September. *Apparently, the currently available B0 and B1 stepping Zambezi/Bulldozer processors can function at around 2.50GHz/3.50GHz (nominal/turbo) clock-speeds and at such frequencies they cannot deliver performance AMD considers competitive*, a person with knowledge of the situation said on Monday.
> 
> *As a consequence, AMD needs to tune the design of the processor and create B2 stepping of the chip with better clock-speed potential amid similar thermal design power (TDP), which will take several months to complete*.


We've already seen the performance levels of B0 chips, which backs up what this article is saying. So, on that note, it doesn't make sense to me how a new stepping can be created, manufactured, and brought to market in 90 days.

At this stage, I would expect them to have B2 chips in full production if they are to meet this new deadline, make sense?

Maybe the questions I should be asking are:

When were these B0 & B1 chips created, and do they already have B2 chips manufactured ready for retail now?


----------



## Murtux

Has the release date been announced?
I am traveling to USA in August, if it comes out before August 1st, I will be very happy xD


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13856645*
> Last I checked.
> 
> Q1 = Jan - Mar
> Q2 = April - June ( BD's release was scheduled for June 20th )
> Q3 = July - Sept
> Q4 = Oct - Dec
> 
> I know 90 days is not enough, which is why I'm wondering what's really going on, and trying to get an official answer, not a speculative one.
> 
> If you read the article I linked it says:
> 
> We've already seen the performance levels of B0 chips, which backs up what this article is saying. So, on that note, it doesn't make sense to me how a new stepping can be created, manufactured, and brought to market in 90 days.
> 
> At this stage, I would expect them to have B2 chips in full production if they are to meet this new deadline, make sense?
> 
> Maybe the questions I should be asking are:
> 
> When were these B0 & B1 chips created, and do they already have B2 chips manufactured ready for retail now?


Woops yeah sorry it is Q3.

Well if you look at the IHS shots of the ENG samples it says 2011 on them. My guess is they are probably from January, in order for mobo manufacturers to validate board design and add support.

I doubt the chips released will have this bad of performance, it wouldn't make sense to go backwards. If this is the stepping that is release though, then there must be some major microcode/BIOS updates to get these chips performing as they should.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Maybe the questions I should be asking are:

When were these B0 & B1 chips created, and do they already have B2 chips manufactured ready for retail now?


Have we ever gotten dates and info like that about ES from AMD? I would think not. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for answers to those questions.

B0 and B1 were made for validation proposes and thus were never designed to be released to the public. Given that AMD needs time for validation and production of these CPUs they must have been made months ago. As for why the mobo makers don't/didn't have the latest and greatest silicon... read JF's post on XS again. It is clear that AMD does not send the best chips to their partners.

Do I have proof? No, of course not. But logic indicates that if AMD began ironing out the bugs in B0/B1 when those articles were published then there would be 0% chance of a August release. The delay was probably caused by the now well known problems with the ES taking longer than expected to correct. AMD is likely ramping production quality 'dozers as we speak.


----------



## 2010rig

Let's hope so.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


When were these B0 & B1 chips created, and do they already have B2 chips manufactured ready for retail now?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappa*


Woops yeah sorry it is Q3.

Well if you look at the IHS shots of the ENG samples it says 2011 on them. My guess is they are probably from January, in order for mobo manufacturers to validate board design and add support.

I doubt the chips released will have this bad of performance, it wouldn't make sense to go backwards. If this is the stepping that is release though, then there must be some major microcode/BIOS updates to get these chips performing as they should.


The IHS shots actually specify the week these engineering samples were produced as well. If you look at the second line it says "FA 1111DD". AMD specifies the week of manufacture in the format of YYWW, so these were made in the 11th week of 2011, i.e. between March 14th and 18th.

If you doubt this, just look up a few photos of AMD CPUs from launch reviews. The first two digits after the stepping code on the second line usually correspond to the year, and the next two digits usually correspond to a week of the year a month or two before launch day.

Remember the leak of Zambezi engineering sample part numbers and clock speeds. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...-revealed.aspx These referenced part numbers ending in K43, indicating the A1 stepping, and K44, indicating the B0 stepping. It was likely the A1 stepping that was originally sent to motherboard manufacturers for testing. These B0 samples probably didn't make it out of AMD's labs until the end of Q1.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;13863613*
> *The IHS shots actually specify the week these engineering samples were produced as well. If you look at the second line it says "FA 1111DD".* AMD specifies the week of manufacture in the format of YYWW, so these were made in the 11th week of 2011, i.e. between March 14th and 18th.
> 
> If you doubt this, just look up a few photos of AMD CPUs from launch reviews. The first two digits after the stepping code on the second line usually correspond the the year, and the next two digits usually correspond to a week of the year a month or two before launch day.
> 
> Remember the leak of Zambezi engineering sample part numbers and clock speeds. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/4/26/amds-fx-bulldozer-cpu-clock-speeds-revealed.aspx These referenced part numbers ending in K43, indicating the A1 stepping, and K44, indicating the B0 stepping. It was likely the A1 stepping that was originally sent to motherboard manufacturers for testing. These B0 samples probably didn't make it out of AMD's labs until the end of Q1.


I'm just gonna rep you now, and look into it further.









Where you getting "FA 1111DD" from? Not sure what "IHS" is and the screenshots you're referring to.

I've been in touch with the guy that created the Cinebench videos comparing to the 2500K, and he's got a B0 chip that he bought from China, so, let's see if we can figure out when it was manufactured.


----------



## Narokuu

my corsshair V will be at my doorstep thursday, cant wait to post pics of the new build =D


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;13863613*
> The IHS shots actually specify the week these engineering samples were produced as well. If you look at the second line it says "FA 1111DD". AMD specifies the week of manufacture in the format of YYWW, so these were made in the 11th week of 2011, i.e. between March 14th and 18th.
> 
> If you doubt this, just look up a few photos of AMD CPUs from launch reviews. The first two digits after the stepping code on the second line usually correspond to the year, and the next two digits usually correspond to a week of the year a month or two before launch day.
> 
> Remember the leak of Zambezi engineering sample part numbers and clock speeds. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/4/26/amds-fx-bulldozer-cpu-clock-speeds-revealed.aspx These referenced part numbers ending in K43, indicating the A1 stepping, and K44, indicating the B0 stepping. It was likely the A1 stepping that was originally sent to motherboard manufacturers for testing. These B0 samples probably didn't make it out of AMD's labs until the end of Q1.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13863744*
> I'm just gonna rep you now, and look into it further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where you getting "FA 1111DD" from? Not sure what "IHS" is and the screenshots you're referring to.
> 
> I've been in touch with the guy that created the Cinebench videos comparing to the 2500K, and he's got a B0 chip that he bought from China, so, let's see if we can figure out when it was manufactured.


He found the 1111 from here http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/108487137/T2DkNKXjpbXXXXXXXX_!!108487137.jpg

in this thread http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1037786-bulldozer-live-testing-china.html

BTW I used a barcode reader online and I pulled all the codes that were markered out in those pictures too (except for one and that one was from here http://www.chiphell.com/thread-210890-1-1.html

FB89395C10016_ZD282051W8K44
FB89395C10055_ZD282051W8K44
FB89395C10060_ZD282051W8K44
FB89395C10062_ZD282051W8K44

See if anyone can decode those


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dustin88;13864027*
> my corsshair V will be at my doorstep thursday, cant wait to post pics of the new build =D


Same here, I'm waiting my on my Crosshair V and have a few other components I'll order before BD drops.


----------



## Narokuu

i havent built a pc in nearly 2 years, march of 09 is whwn i built my current sig rig (minus the GPUS) i jsut cannot wait, my wife is excited as well, because im building her one AND this means my "server machine" that i use for downloads, media, minecraft and other games will get a beefy upgrade too =))))


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13864091*
> He found the 1111 from here http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/108487137/T2DkNKXjpbXXXXXXXX_!!108487137.jpg
> 
> in this thread http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1037786-bulldozer-live-testing-china.html
> 
> BTW I used a barcode reader online and I pulled all the codes that were markered out in those pictures too (except for one and that one was from here http://www.chiphell.com/thread-210890-1-1.html
> 
> FB89395C10016_ZD282051W8K44
> FB89395C10055_ZD282051W8K44
> FB89395C10060_ZD282051W8K44
> FB89395C10062_ZD282051W8K44
> 
> See if anyone can decode those


Heres a few guesses from me again

http://www.cpu-world.com/info/id/AMD-K10-identification.html

FA = 140W or 125W CPU
Week 11 of 2011 = 1111
DPN (I think thats what I could make it out to be) = batch just like where it has the week beside on current Phenom II's

FB = FX Bulldozer maybe?
8 = 8 core
9395 = possible model number?
100xx = Chip # from the wafer

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/4/26/amds-fx-bulldozer-cpu-clock-speeds-revealed.aspx

Z = Zambezi
D = Desktop
28 = Similar to Opteron code, 2 way 8 core processor
20 = Frequency Identifier, i'm guessing this means either 3.2GHz, 2.8GHz or 2.4GHz
51 = Power envelope/features maybe? or "roadmap" as posted on bsn
W = AM3+ Package
8 = 8 core processor
K = Cache size (as per the link above)
44= B0 sample

disclaimer: I do not have any information on BD and this is pure speculation
*
EDIT: OBR is actually selling his sample on his blog....

http://obrovsky.blogspot.com/

He claims it is newer then all the other ES*
Quote:


> Wow, i am honoured to be at HWB front page!
> 
> Until **** guy Bruno will be at AMD PR, i will allways break AMD NDA like many years before ... thats all.
> 
> This chip is not final sillicon maybe, but ist almost Final. I am 99 percent sure, retail released product at the same freq will have the same performance, my sample is very new ... PS. its not a gift or free cpu ... i paid for it lot of money ...
> 
> Base clock is 3.2 GHz and Turbo in 99 percents cases working properly. Only few are suspicious, for example Cinebench R11.5. Overclocking with this sample is not interesting, default voltage is pretty high. And under LN2 iv reached only 5+ GHz, not 6GHz ... but seems, till -100 no CB.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13864296*
> Heres a few guesses from me again
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/info/id/AMD-K10-identification.html
> 
> FA = 140W or 125W CPU
> Week 11 of 2011 = 1111
> DPN (I think thats what I could make it out to be) = batch just like where it has the week beside on current Phenom II's
> 
> FB = FX Bulldozer maybe?
> 8 = 8 core
> 9395 = possible model number?
> 100xx = Chip # from the wafer
> 
> http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/4/26/amds-fx-bulldozer-cpu-clock-speeds-revealed.aspx
> 
> Z = Zambezi
> D = Desktop
> 28 = Similar to Opteron code, 2 way 8 core processor
> 20 = Frequency Identifier, i'm guessing this means either 3.2GHz, 2.8GHz or 2.4GHz
> 51 = Power envelope/features maybe? or "roadmap" as posted on bsn
> W = AM3+ Package
> 8 = 8 core processor
> K = Cache size (as per the link above)
> 44= B0 sample
> 
> disclaimer: I do not have any information on BD and this is pure speculation
> *
> EDIT: OBR is actually selling his sample on his blog....
> 
> http://obrovsky.blogspot.com/
> 
> He claims it is newer then all the other ES*


Very nice.

I think there's just one update.

2820 = 2800 MHZ ( Model # 2820 on Table 17 )

so, if we break this down.

*ZD282051W8K44* = Zambezi Desktop - 2800MHZ / 3800 MHZ Turbo - Roadmap 51 - 8 Core 8 MB L3 Cache - B0

Roadmap 51 is on table 16 which is not on the site, Table 15 is missing also, you know where we can get these other tables?

I'll see if I can find out when that other chip was made.

I think we have the basics though. Thanks for all the info!

+ Rep as well


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13863744*
> 
> Where you getting "FA 1111DD" from? Not sure what *"IHS"* is and the screenshots you're referring to.


I thought you were knowlegeable in all the threads i've seen you post in, but you've just lost all credibility to me, sorry


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13865270*
> I thought you were knowlegeable in all the threads i've seen you post in, but you've just lost all credibility to me, sorry


LOL, I had a blonde moment, oh well.









For some reason I thought he was referring to a site, with the initials IHS that had those screenshots.









I was like, what site is he talking about?.









Now that I lost all credibility to you, how will I sleep at night?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Like a baby.




















But enough about me, I hope Bulldozer hurry's up, 'cuz the AMD converts are talking.
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/1040953-attn-amd-sb-converts.html

I'm still waiting 'cuz I'm moving at the end of the month, and don't really have time to put the 2nd rig together yet. Once we've settled in, I may plan a 2600K build or may hold out a little longer for BD since I've made it this far.

Like how I changed the subject?









.


----------



## solidsteel144

If I read that blog post correctly, he wants 420 dollars (more or less) for the sample.


----------



## Narokuu

must.... order.... BDDDDD QQ i want moar


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;13870095*
> If I read that blog post correctly, he wants *420* dollars (more or less) for the sample.


...april fools!


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13856174*
> May to August is still = to Q2
> 
> 90 days is not enough to ramp a new stepping, which is why that is not the case. They already have production chips. The semi-conductor industry is complex. I doubt there is any major problems with BD like there was with Phenom I.


july-august-sempt.- q3


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;13874726*
> ...april fools!


I see what you did there.


----------



## Nocturin

Couldn't help it.
















It wouldn't make sense to me to break an NDA that could *potentially* have severe consequences on the breakee.

Wouldn't it make more sense to benchmark and release than sell the ES?


----------



## raisethe3

Huh??

I thought April to June is Q2.

take the 12 months and divide into 4 quarters and you have it. Unless technology defines it differently, lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13856174*
> *May to August is still = to Q2*
> 
> 90 days is not enough to ramp a new stepping, which is why that is not the case. They already have production chips. The semi-conductor industry is complex. I doubt there is any major problems with BD like there was with Phenom I.


----------



## Tator Tot

There are different Quarters (Financial, Yearly, and more) in every year.

It'd be simple if it was Months 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, & 10-12; but that's not how it works in the Business world.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;13887780*
> Huh??
> 
> I thought April to June is Q2.
> 
> take the 12 months and divide into 4 quarters and you have it. Unless technology defines it differently, lol.


And if you read the rest of the thread you would have realized i corrected myself.


----------



## Nocturin

It's late, that's what we know. Why? Speculation. What? Speculation.

This is driving me crazy. Give me chips so you can take my monies!


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Nope


----------



## Tweeky

One important thing to remember is that they never said what year BD was coming out ?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13898273*
> One important thing to remember is that they never said what year BD was coming out ?


It would obviously be 2011 if AMD intends to stay afloat much longer,llano alone can't save them.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13898663*
> It would obviously be 2011 if AMD intends to stay afloat much longer,llano alone can't save them.


Not too sure about that.

Llano is the majority of their sales. And the way the trend towards notebooks, tablets and netbooks is going, llano is a very powerful chip.

It is so enticing to the end user because it is cheap, uses less power, but is still enough to play games, watch HD movies etc.

Us enthusiasts like to think we are an important niche, but we account for very little revenue to the company. The biggest market is the average joe end user, and the server sector.

BD is already confirmed 50% more data throughput, which is also enticing for the server users looking to get Interlagos. This is where AMD has always been successful too.

On top of all that, AMD has sort of an invisible safety net as a company. Intel has a major monopoly on the market, and I'm sure there would be intervention by the government before they let Intel dominate every aspect of the semi-conductor market.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13898723*
> Not too sure about that.
> 
> Llano is the majority of their sales. And the way the trend towards notebooks, tablets and netbooks is going, llano is a very powerful chip.
> 
> It is so enticing to the end user because it is cheap, uses less power, but is still enough to play games, watch HD movies etc.
> 
> Us enthusiasts like to think we are an important niche, but we account for very little revenue to the company. The biggest market is the average joe end user, and the server sector.
> 
> BD is already confirmed 50% more data throughput, which is also enticing for the server users looking to get Interlagos. This is where AMD has always been successful too.
> 
> On top of all that, AMD has sort of an invisible safety net as a company. Intel has a major monopoly on the market, and I'm sure there would be intervention by the government before they let Intel dominate every aspect of the semi-conductor market.


True,but many need more more than what two or four 1.5-2.0Ghz cores can provide,and Phenom II sales are dropping rapidly because users and switching to a SB chip instead.
As you may have seen in the benchmark tests,the A8-3500M cannot compete with the mobile i5 in CPU tests,but obliterates it in graphics tests. We have yet to know how well Llano does in a desktop. But for more power than a Phenom II you will need a BD.
Intel pretty much controls the CPU market already,so they're close. I'm sure the government would step in if AMD were to fall,leaving Intel with full reign over the semi-conductor market,however Intel has contracts with the government,along with their business practices, so I'm kinda doubtful.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;13898913*
> True,but many need more more than what two or four 1.5-2.0Ghz cores can provide,and Phenom II sales are dropping rapidly because users and switching to a SB chip instead.
> As you may have seen in the benchmark tests,the A8-3500M cannot compete with the mobile i5 in CPU tests,but obliterates it in graphics tests. We have yet to know how well Llano does in a desktop. But for more power than a Phenom II you will need a BD.
> Intel pretty much controls the CPU market already,so they're close. I'm sure the government would step in if AMD were to fall,leaving Intel with full reign over the semi-conductor market,however Intel has contracts with the government,along with their business practices, so I'm kinda doubtful.


Intel needs AMD.

Anywho the thing about llano is:

Take llano in a laptop and do all your normal web browsing, business documents, games etc.

Take a mobile i5 and do the same.

Will you see a difference in the 2D application speed? Probably not. They are both powerful CPU's. The average user will never ever run a CPU test.

Take the 3D game test. Even if the i5 is faster CPU wise, it will fall short in the graphics department. Llano is clearly a mainstream winner between the two.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappa;13898968*
> Intel needs AMD.
> 
> Anywho the thing about llano is:
> 
> Take llano in a laptop and do all your normal web browsing, business documents, games etc.
> 
> Take a mobile i5 and do the same.
> 
> Will you see a difference in the 2D application speed? Probably not. They are both powerful CPU's. The average user will never ever run a CPU test.
> 
> Take the 3D game test. Even if the i5 is faster CPU wise, it will fall short in the graphics department. Llano is clearly a mainstream winner between the two.


Intel does need AMD to keep their prices in check,and so Intel can't stick us with the same CPU for 5 years,etc.
I really like Llano because of that,it has a good CPU and a powerful GPU,all while still giving you a decent battery life. It's kind of pointless to have the more poweful i5 without the addition of a discrete GPU anyway,you can't really do anything more than 2D apllications.
Adding a AMD or Nvidia discrete GPU to it yields a much shorter time away from a plug in.
I'm considering a llano notebook,I could care less about benchmarking it,all I want it to do is be able to perform 2D applications & mlutitasking efficiently,and play the occasional game.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


One important thing to remember is that they never said what year BD was coming out ?


That is a patently untrue statement. We clearly said 2011.


----------



## Kolovrat

JF just let it go already.... it's took to long ....


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Intel does need AMD to keep their prices in check,and so Intel can't stick us with the same CPU for 5 years,etc.


The reverse is also true. AMD integrated graphics have pretty much remained stagnant since 2008, likely owing to NVIDIA's exit from the chipset business. Meanwhile, Intel's integrated graphics have improved significantly compared to older iterations. If Intel hadn't improved their integrated graphics performance, Brazos and Lynx probably wouldn't be as good as they are. AMD has to straggle the fine line between making their integrated graphics better than the competition while still not being good enough that it will cannibalize sales of their low-end discrete graphics cards. As it is, some of the Llano benchmarks show the iGPU to perform similar to the HD 6450.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kolovrat;13903028*
> jf just let it go already.... It's took to long ....


lol?


----------



## PureOC Jim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;13903333*
> The reverse is also true. AMD integrated graphics have pretty much remained stagnant since 2008, likely owing to NVIDIA's exit from the chipset business. Meanwhile, Intel's integrated graphics have improved significantly compared to older iterations. If Intel hadn't improved their integrated graphics performance, Brazos and Lynx probably wouldn't be as good as they are. AMD has to straggle the fine line between making their integrated graphics better than the competition while still not being good enough that it will cannibalize sales of their low-end discrete graphics cards. As it is, some of the Llano benchmarks show the iGPU to perform similar to the HD 6450.


It is not integrated graphics with Bulldozer. It is *FUSION!*


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;13902739*
> That is a patently untrue statement. We clearly said 2011.


Here's another patently untrue statement.











Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## purpleannex

Expect isn't a definitive statement.

Though I agree with you in princible.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureOC Jim;13903700*
> It is not integrated graphics with Bulldozer. It is *FUSION!*


Except the first iteration of Bulldozer (Zambezi) doesn't have graphics (whether you want to call it integrated graphics or Fusion or APU). Bulldozer won't be in a Fusion part until Trinity (2012). Llano is using a 32nm die-shrink of K10.5 Stars at the moment.


----------



## nub

Will there be a second generation bulldozer cpu or will it all become 'apu'? If there is a cpu only 'enhanced bulldozer', will the am3+ socket be used or will there be a new socket for this?


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13905440*
> Here's another patently untrue statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.


That still says 2011.


----------



## black96ws6

Every time a new article comes out, there are potential nuggets of information that can be gleaned. This I think for the most part doesn't say anything really new, however, does bring up a point about being readily available late '11, possibly '12?
Quote:


> Advanced Micro Devices needs to improve performance of its FX-series "Zambezi" microprocessors for desktops featuring the Bulldozer micro-architecture before launching them, according to sources with knowledge of the matter. Performance can be improved with a new stepping, which will be production ready only by August.
> 
> The long-awaited central processing units (CPUs) featuring the code-named Bulldozer micro-architecture are now fully-functional and work without flaws, according to a person who wished to remain anonymous. The problem with the delay of the AMD FX family of chips is that they currently cannot operate at truly high-speeds and thus cannot achieve performance levels that AMD wanted them to. As result, AMD will need to design a new stepping of the processor and therefore delay the commercial launch to September.
> 
> The currently available B0 and B1 stepping Zambezi/Bulldozer processors can function at around 2.50GHz/3.50GHz (nominal/turbo) clock-speeds and at such frequency they cannot deliver performance AMD considers competitive, a person with knowledge of the situation said on Monday. As a consequence, AMD needs to tune the design of the processor and create B2 stepping of the chip with better clock-speed potential amid similar thermal design power (TDP), which will take several months to complete. Therefore, the Sunnyvale, California-based chip designer will release its highly-anticipated Bulldozer processors for desktops in September, not in June, as planned.
> 
> Although sales of high-performance microprocessors do not peak in Summer, production ramp usually takes time and therefore launch in September means that the company will only be able to ship "Bulldozers" in high volume sometime late in 2011 or even in 2012. This will slowdown revenue growth of the chip developer and will also hit its reputation, as this is by far not the first or second delay of Bulldozer in general and Zambezi in particular. AMD itself believed that its multi-core Zambezi FX CPUs will allow it to compete head-to-head with Intel's high-end Core i-series "Sandy Bridge" processors that can sell for as much as $300 and more per chip.
> 
> It remains to be seen how the delay of the desktop version of the processor will postpone the release of server versions of the chip with up to sixteen cores. Several high-performance computer makers, including Cray, have already promised to ship supercomputers with the new AMD Opteron "Bulldozer" microprocessors code-named Valencia and Interlagos this year.
> 
> AMD did not comment on the story.


----------



## Narokuu

September ..... maybe they are stalling so the new GPus and CPUS are released at the same time? if so im'a cry..... like really.... manly cry is manly


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;13909092*
> Every time a new article comes out, there are potential nuggets of information that can be gleaned. This I think for the most part doesn't say anything really new, however, does bring up a point about being readily available late '11, possibly '12?


where is that article from?


----------



## Dromihetes

In the mean time Global Foundry seems to have fired the chief in charge with the 32 nm process.
Good decision maybe a little late though








Bulldozer is late due to the 32 nm fabrication mostly ,don t forget that people.
September is good for Bulldozer and gaming industry.
For casual people Llano or Phenom 2 + 9xx mobos may be good enough.Unless we go for the dark side







.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Every time a new article comes out, there are potential nuggets of information that can be gleaned. This I think for the most part doesn't say anything really new, however, does bring up a point about being readily available late '11, possibly '12?


Source?


----------



## Nocturin

It's xbit I think, that surfaced in this thread about a month ago


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappa*


That still says 2011.


I wasn't referring to the year, I was referring to Bulldozer being released in Q2, which is not.


----------



## gurusan

I hope AMD comes out with a winner, I just haven't seen anything that's convinced me that it's any decent yet.


----------



## knoxy_14

sorry if this been answered but was BD pushed back to september? i remember reading that somewhere


----------



## Narokuu

i hope not... yet it will give me time to save up some cash lol


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knoxy_14*


sorry if this been answered but was BD pushed back to september? i remember reading that somewhere


According to a slide from computex, it will be aug-sept. There is a lot of speculation as to why the processor has been delayed; hence the (redacted) below.


----------



## PureOC Jim

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


I am judging from the fact that BD was supposed to be ready in 2009.....I'm judging from the fact that it has failed to match the competition so far in 2011....and once they respin the silicon for higher clockrates it;s still going to be fail unless they somehow magically manage to get 5+ghz levels....which seems improbable as they are struggling to get 3.5GHz turbo speeds.


Bullcrap. If you actually new how the architercture works you would not say that. AMD is using actual cores that share the resources through pipes. Intels hyperthreading is virtual coes that do not share resources. The OS will be able to efficiently assign the execution wheras Intel cannot. The performance will be greater.


----------



## Narokuu

niceeeee


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureOC Jim;13922974*
> Bullcrap. If you actually new how the architercture works you would not say that. AMD is using actual cores that share the resources through pipes. Intels hyperthreading is virtual coes that do not share resources. The OS will be able to efficiently assign the execution wheras Intel cannot. The performance will be greater.


A reasonable and well thought out response with show architecture understanding.


----------



## FlanK3r

Guys, relax....dont worry about BD perfm, thats all ,-).


----------



## Evil Penguin

Personally I think BD will be more than twice as fast than say... 1100T on average.


----------



## Aesir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;13925299*
> Personally I think BD will be more than twice as fast than say... 1100T on average.


Hopefully, cause I'm ready for it but I'm still content with the PII x4 so I wont mind waiting for all the reviews to come out. AMD might pull a new revision out like they did when I got my C2 955 right when they came out, cause this C3 is so much better.


----------



## Narokuu

agreed we all love computers, if its a competition we have all seen the numbers, yes some may be better. or some worse. but we use what we want/like. look at my GPU's in my sig rig... there ancient, but i love them. just because someone can prove with numbers that they are low quality, wont make me stop using them. i could buy 2 690s friday if i wanted... but i don't need to. just like my Phenom II x3 is plenty for gaming. an i5 and i7 and an i900000 are amazing, but im jsut not a fan of intel, ther great CPUS and ill admit that all day long. but i wont ever own one. just because u respect something dosen't mean you have to like it. its like music, its all great, and self expression, but i dont have to like or listen to anything i don't want to. these computers are expressions of us. we are all on the same team be it intel amd or anything else. its like a good X-men movie.. theirs no good or bad.. just 2 things really wanting to prove themselves, lets stop fighting and enjoy being on a great community site for computers =D


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r;13925238*
> Guys, relax....dont worry about BD perfm, thats all ,-).


Bruno, want to post some results on this site.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread cleaned up a little more.

Please guys, I can't go through almost 1500 posts to clean this entire thread. I'm only keeping up with the last page.

If there's other posts that need cleaned out of here (flaming, off topic, trolling AMD, name calling, whatever), then PLEASE just hit the report button, and I'll be on it.


----------



## dadasalam

do you remember that ati graphics was low performance on 3XXX and 4XXX and it did not have any more powerful graphic than nvidia?
but with the series of 5XXX and 5970 has beated the nvidia graphics and now with the 6XXX series

amd thinking . amd now want to break intel . im am 100% sure that the BD is at least more than 25% more powerful that the SB. i know that the amd is back to fight after 6 year . BD is the begining of the amd performance . BD is the first play


----------



## Obakemono

Ooooo, I did not know that AMD was releasing the BD on socket C32. SCORE!


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

John, what month does Q2 start and end for AMD?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Regardless... We should be getting BD before Q3 ends.


----------



## nub

Has any information been released about 'enhanced bulldozer' socket / will it be am3+?


----------



## Narokuu

it is Am3+ the crosshair V supports octo core CPUs


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dustin88;13935190*
> it is Am3+ the crosshair V supports octo core CPUs


Is that in reply to nub? If it is then of course the chv supports FX 8 core, that's the flagship for the 990fx chipset, nub's talking about enhanced bulldozer, the next revision.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;13935007*
> Has any information been released about 'enhanced bulldozer' socket / will it be am3+?


No info yet, and even if there was could we trust it after the AM3/AM3+ debacle?


----------



## Iceman23

Based on AMDs track record I would be very very surprised if BD-E was on a completetly new socket.


----------



## purpleannex

I'm expecting BD-E to be on AM3+ *BUT ONLY* AM3+, not AM3, but that's pure speculation.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13943866*
> I'm expecting BD-E to be on AM3+ *BUT ONLY* AM3+, not AM3, but that's pure speculation.


It does make sense though. Most users that have upgraded to BD will have a AM3+ motherboard by then.


----------



## purpleannex

Simply basing it on that BD-E will be another level ahead, like AM2+ AM3, and there had to be SOME reason for AMD insisting on a new socket (other than power optimizations for first gen BD) since BD will work in AM3, I just feel that AM3+ is leading to something later on.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13943866*
> I'm expecting BD-E to be on AM3+ *BUT ONLY* AM3+, not AM3, but that's pure speculation.


I watched a interview/review of all the new AM3+ Asus mobo's and from what the Asus rep said during it there will be certain limitations to 800 series mobo's. Not so much from what's being launched except for the fact that AM3+ mobo's are highly optimized for BD but from what he said, later releases of newer revised BD cpu's will have features that won't necessarily be compatible with 800 series mobo's. I could be wrong though so don't quote me on that.


----------



## purpleannex

I've allways been in the AM3+ for BD camp, I don't want a gimped mobo *if* I get a BD. I'm already running an AM3 cpu on an AM2+ mobo that has full bios support but doesn't run correctly.


----------



## Domino

Anyone think Bulldozer was publically released a little too early? Lately I haven't really given any thought into bulldozer...or interest for those matters. I might even just skip it after all. Unless we deal with anything that requires a severe work load in the engineering apps next school year, then I'm upgrading.


----------



## Tatakai All

I'm all for BD I'm still on a AM2+ board with ddr2, it's about time I upgrade can't wait.


----------



## nub

Re. enhanced bulldozer on am3+ .. there is a slide showing it might not be am3+ after all.

http://www.nordichardware.se/images/labswedish/artiklar/CPU-Chipset/Llano_mobile/fullimages/AMD_Llano_27.png

Note that infrastructure for Komodo is listed as FMx not AM3+ as it is for Zambezi.

I am hoping JF can comment on if that slide is legit.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Re. enhanced bulldozer on am3+ .. there is a slide showing it might not be am3+ after all.

http://www.nordichardware.se/images/...D_Llano_27.png

Note that infrastructure for Komodo is listed as FMx not AM3+ as it is for Zambezi.

I am hoping JF can comment on if that slide is legit.


I have no idea. It is a client slide and I gave up commenting on client because people can't mind their manners. I will only discuss technology, not productization - except server.


----------



## Nocturin

...overclocking is a "feature" now, It's kinda ridiculous but awesome all at the same time....

Anyone have any opinions or thoughts on the slide(screen capture) that was displayed with the AMD overdrive? It looked like it was legit, so does this confirm the earlier discussions of 3.5 stock on the 8130P?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


...overclocking is a "feature" now, It's kinda ridiculous but awesome all at the same time....

Anyone have any opinions or thoughts on the slide(screen capture) that was displayed with the AMD overdrive? It looked like it was legit, so does this confirm the earlier discussions of 3.5 stock on the 8130P?


The only amdod screen I've seen was from E3 and c&q was on. Which one are you talking about?


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gurusan;13913404*
> 
> I think Bulldozer will be a fail CPU just like Phenom 1 and 2....and am willing to eat my words when it comes out and proves me otherwise.


I hope so ,in this way your next PC will be AMD.
If BD is a fail your next Intel PC will cost you a fortune mate.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;13971498*
> The only amdod screen I've seen was from E3 and c&q was on. Which one are you talking about?












That one - shows 3 cores between 3.5 and 3.6 ghz.


----------



## el gappo

Interesting


----------



## PROBN4LYFE

so where's the processors?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PROBN4LYFE;13975606*
> so where's the processors?


JF-AMD has them in a van, down by the river.

Source


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13976108*
> JF-AMD has them in a van, down by the river.


Welllllll lah-dee-frickin-dah, why doesn't he share?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13976156*
> Welllllll lah-dee-frickin-dah, why doesn't he share?


'cuz he's a server guy, and is not into overclocking, so they are useless to him.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13976535*
> 'cuz he's a server guy, and is not into overclocking, so they are useless to him.


I know, it was a joke... It's from the Chris Farley skit you quoted, figured you would get it


----------



## Evil Penguin

I miss Chris Farley.


----------



## Tweeky

BDS has Shiped see it in action
http://obrovsky.blogspot.com/


----------



## Roedi

That obrovsky is a faker imo. A super PI 1M run off 1.29S?? what you guys think?http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-akwVH9ffv6g/TgN2UlMYQHI/AAAAAAAAAzQ/1C2qbui-oTk/s1600/edited.png


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roedi;13989500*
> That obrovsky is a faker imo. A super PI 1M run off 1.29S?? what you guys think?http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-akwVH9ffv6g/TgN2UlMYQHI/AAAAAAAAAzQ/1C2qbui-oTk/s1600/edited.png


He's blocked out the results, it's above 10 seconds and below 20. Completely useless information.

Guy claims to have no respect for NDA and then shows nothing of value whatsoever, he just wants the hits to keep coming in. Successful troll is successful.


----------



## raisethe3

Wow, 4.6Ghz on air? Pretty good to me.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;13997480*
> Wow, 4.6Ghz on air? Pretty good to me.


1m at 4.6 is nothing.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;13989238*
> BDS has Shiped see it in action
> http://obrovsky.blogspot.com/


EPIC FACEPALM

It says EngineeringSample !







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;13989922*
> He's blocked out the results, it's above 10 seconds and below 20. Completely useless information.
> 
> Guy claims to have no respect for NDA and then shows nothing of value whatsoever, he just wants the hits to keep coming in.
> *Successful troll is successful.*


qft
Secondly, he again and again complains about same OLD-CRIPPLED Engineering sample








That guy deserves kick in the butt


----------



## 2010rig

What an interesting read:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...rformance.aspx

Would love JF-AMD's thoughts on this story.


----------



## raisethe3

But this is AMD chip we're talking about. At least, I know that I never got 4.6Ghz on any AMD chip that I've owned. Hell the max I got was 4.1Ghz (unstable). So this a bit of a good sign for me actually. Sure, you guys expect higher, but I won't resist that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;13997554*
> 1m at 4.6 is nothing.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;13997887*
> That's what Sandy B said.


----------



## Narokuu

after reading that article i am in fact getting a Thuban, goign to wait it out for BD... a 6 core and 2 7 series GPUs will suit me fine for what i need lol


----------



## Slappa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


But this is AMD chip we're talking about. At least, I know that I never got 4.6Ghz on any AMD chip that I've owned. Hell the max I got was 4.1Ghz (unstable). So this a bit of a good sign for me actually. Sure, you guys expect higher, but I won't resist that.


Thats really not what hes saying though.

Anyone with a recent Phenom II can run superpi at 4.6GHz on air or water. It is only stressing one core barely and not testing stability.

So how would we know if BD was even close to stable during that run? We don't.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappa*


Thats really not what hes saying though.

Anyone with a recent Phenom II can run superpi at 4.6GHz on air or water. It is only stressing one core barely and not testing stability.

So how would we know if BD was even close to stable during that run? We don't.


Even better, based on his blog, we don't know if he is in fact benchmarking a bulldozer chip at all! Considering the fact that he's trying to set this up as a means to make money (he states he's trying to set up a supplier in China to market items for global consumption), I have very strong doubts regarding the validity of anything posted there.

The fact that most of the SuperPi times are whited out only confirms this in my eyes. Assuming that the benchmark is real (It still would be an ES chip), hiding the checksum tells us that either the chip is not stable at this clock, or in fact he's falsifying the posted frequency. For someone that claims he doesn't care about NDA, there sure is a lot of secrecy on his part.

The deafening silence from AMD only further fuels these types of blogs and "benchmarks" submitted by less than reputable sources.







I personally am going to just keep patiently waiting for AMD to release the chip so we can get _real_ benchmarks and data while taking "leaks" with a grain of salt.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Even better, based on his blog, we don't know if he is in fact benchmarking a bulldozer chip at all! Considering the fact that he's trying to set this up as a means to make money (he states he's trying to set up a supplier in China to market items for global consumption), I have very strong doubts regarding the validity of anything posted there.

The fact that most of the SuperPi times are whited out only confirms this in my eyes. Assuming that the benchmark is real (It still would be an ES chip), hiding the checksum tells us that either the chip is not stable at this clock, or in fact he's falsifying the posted frequency. For someone that claims he doesn't care about NDA, there sure is a lot of secrecy on his part.

The deafening silence from AMD only further fuels these types of blogs and "benchmarks" submitted by less than reputable sources.







I personally am going to just keep patiently waiting for AMD to release the chip so we can get _real_ benchmarks and data while taking "leaks" with a grain of salt.




















Well try every checksum within EXXXXXXXX7

14.829s SuperPI 1m

^--- Phenom II @ 4.635GHz will have the same score

http://www.overclock.net/benchmarkin...top-times.html

ikem provides:








Riskitall84 provides:


----------



## HAF_wit

Yeah, I was referring to:








There isn't anything to go by at all, so detective-work won't apply here.

I do like how you showed that the PII can match those numbers though.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Yeah, I was referring to:








There isn't anything to go by at all, so detective-work won't apply here.

I do like how you showed that the PII can match those numbers though.










The point of showing is

Phenom II = Crippled FPU Bulldozer

SuperPI is an x87 benchmark

and bulldozer can shoot 2 x87 while phenom 2 can only shoot out 1 x87

The big rumor is that the FPU in Bulldozer is half-clocked

so 2.31775 GHz BD FPU = 4.6355 GHz Ph2 FPU

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Theo Valich*

Now, BSN* had received scores from B0 and B1 silicon and we decided not to run the story disclosing exact performance details since they plainly... were far below what we expected. After talking to journalists from other publications and developers that had access to engineering silicon, everyone was lead to believe that Bulldozer has a lot of "performance locks" which were set in place to prevent "premature benchmarculation" i.e. leaks.


Based on the SuperPi we can give a guess that the FPU is half-clocked or has the "Flex" part turned off

veblen provides:









Bulldozer FX-8130P *should* get that^ score and with less time for that 4.6355GHz part


----------



## HAF_wit

Interesting explanation! This is the information I had been trying to ascertain from "leaked" benchmarks. Busting that rep cherry!


----------



## pietro sk

Testing BD in superpi is bad idea because
The result you get is not representing real performance

Nobody is testing modern cars mileage with old low octane fuel,
so why test modern cpus with OUTDATED superpi ?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14009441*
> Testing BD in superpi is bad idea because
> The result you get is not representing real performance
> 
> Nobody is testing modern cars mileage with old low octane fuel,
> so why test modern cpus with OUTDATED superpi ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abinstein*
> According to BD's swopt doc, x87 is handled by the FMAC pipes.











SuperPi does 80bit x87 right?(2 x x87(80bit code))

Wouldn't that make x87 Flexy?

AVX/SSE
Where SB gets 1 GT/s wouldn't BD get 1 GT/s as well?


----------



## pietro sk

x87 in BD is emulated, performance will be slower than SSE FP


----------



## magnetik

AMD is not going to release a CPU that does not perform better than an Intel CPU at the same price.

If they do, they will attempt to deny the validity of the benchmarks (like they are doing with Sysmark 2011).

Also, they have a chance to catch up to Intel by 2Q 2012 at the 32nm process node if Intel is distracted by putting all engineering manpower into the 20nm node, which is going to be insanely difficult to achieve.

If they don't catch up by 2Q 2012, they will at least have Trinity, the Bulldozer fusion chip, which will crush Intel in benchmarks that somehow utilize CPU and GPU cores at the same time.


----------



## Seronx

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *yukon*   sure thing... It's going to take an almost 100 dollar fan/heatsink combo to do what a 80.00 dollar watercooling solution will do.. I would pick up the water.. Anyhow who's running that cooler on there i7 or is that speculation?  
The cooler is the absolute

It stands between the Corsair H70 and Antec Kuhler 920 in performance










Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *magnetik*   AMD is not going to release a CPU that does not perform better than an Intel CPU at the same price.

If they do, they will attempt to deny the validity of the benchmarks (like they are doing with Sysmark 2011).

Also, they have a chance to catch up to Intel by 2Q 2012 at the 32nm process node if Intel is distracted by putting all engineering manpower into the 20nm node, which is going to be insanely difficult to achieve.

If they don't catch up by 2Q 2012, they will at least have Trinity, the Bulldozer fusion chip, which will crush Intel in benchmarks that somehow utilize CPU and GPU cores at the same time.  
*Sysmark 2012

and Sysmark doesn't show performance on GPUs

When the Intel IGP wins over a Nvidia 580GTX~ you know something is wrong in AutoCAD

------------
  
 You Tube  



 
OBR posted a video


----------



## magnetik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


*Sysmark 2012

and Sysmark doesn't show performance on GPUs

When the Intel IGP wins over a Nvidia 580GTX~ you know something is wrong in AutoCAD


That is pretty stupid, was Sysmark 2012 running AutoCad as a GPU benchmark?

In any case, HardOCP is holding a Bulldozer even in 2 weeks, so we will see performance numbers by then if not sooner.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *magnetik*


That is pretty stupid, was Sysmark 2012 running AutoCad as a GPU benchmark?

In any case, HardOCP is holding a Bulldozer even in 2 weeks, so we will see performance numbers by then if not sooner.


Yeah but it had no weight on the scores

1st. Nvidia left(Left quietly)
2nd. AMD left(Broke NDA)
3rd. VIA left(Broke NDA)

What they all have in common....

They all have better GPUs than Intel

---
Can't wait for July 16th!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


What an interesting read:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...rformance.aspx

Would love JF-AMD's thoughts on this story.


That was an amazing read 2010rig, thanks for that.

It is so funny to read that after listening to pietro sk continually come at me with "bent" marks when comparing my 1090T to my i5-2500k. Oddly enough he works for amdzone.com and links to the website every chance he gets.

Quote:



When asked about core performance, surprising information was that a Bulldozer core versus the existing cores in Llano will result in minimal improvements overall. Our sources went on to say that the launch of Llano clearly shows what is the current and future strategy - downplay CPU performance every chance you get. Everything has to revolve around the GPU.


Hopefully new management will bring the glory that is AMD back, not marketing downplaying benchmarks and adding FX to cpus that don't warrant it.


----------



## Mit Namso

so are we still expecting BD by end of Aug into Sept. as the AMD guy at Computex said on June 1st


----------



## Narokuu

u mean July 1st? i haven't heard anything... when its on newegg, ill buy it lmao


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14017772*
> so are we still expecting BD by end of Aug into Sept. as the AMD guy at Computex said on June 1st


July...we can expect benchmarks and reviews

I think


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

^ I hope. I'm already set up with everything except my 8130P. Now this is the hard part, waiting out what I've been waiting a year & a half for.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14017772*
> so are we still expecting BD by end of Aug into Sept. as the AMD guy at Computex said on June 1st


That is the last thing AMD said so I am going to believe that until I hear something different from AMD. I rather not get caught up in all the "bulldozer is slow" rumors which are based on buggy ES chips, "unnamed" sources, or are just plain fake.

'Dozer will be on display at the [H] gaming event in mid July so I am expecting a launch sometime soon after... maybe the first/second week of August. Hopefully, it performs as expected (i.e. noticeable IPC boost over PH II)


----------



## hazarada

what does launch mean tho, is it that they are on the store shelves at that day or that they are gonna start shipping the stuff out potentially reaching people a month later


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14018272*
> what does launch mean tho, is it that they are on the store shelves at that day or that they are gonna start shipping the stuff out potentially reaching people a month later


We can expect 1-3 weeks after reviews


----------



## Kuchiyose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Adding two more cores of the Phenom II type (which is what all reports on performance indicate) isn't too awe inspiring.


I haven't been keeping up with any Bulldozer news lately, can you link me to some benchmarks of retail production of Bulldozer from reliable sources?


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kuchiyose*


I haven't been keeping up with any Bulldozer news lately, can you link me to some benchmarks of retail production of Bulldozer from reliable sources?


Not possible. No one can (that isn't under NDA) atm because retail benchmarks have not been released. Take nearly everything you read about BD with a whole box of salt until you see official releases. Until then, all your seeing is wild speculation based on uninformed opinion, with little to no facts to back it up.

To that point, no one can say whether it will (or won't) be a success/flop. If you look at my sig, you'll see what side of the bet I've hedged.


----------



## Narokuu

BD will be amazing. i have high hopes... course it doesn't take much to impress me... im an overclocker.. but not to the extremes that most are. and i have supported amd for a very long time. and i will continue to do so untill i cannot type/use a mouse anymore =)))


----------



## Dimaggio1103

So Bulldozer is releasing when?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103;14028504*
> So Bulldozer is releasing when?


End of July to End of August

Once you see reviews

Expect 1-3 weeks after = purchase


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14028533*
> End of July to End of August
> 
> Once you see reviews
> 
> Expect 1-3 weeks after = purchase


source?


----------



## Narokuu

they never gave a month, quarter 2 of the year can last till august, im waiting, going to be worth it. match that with the ATI HD 7*** series in August/September, and its a match in heaven, especially with fusion... cant wait for it. then i can take my BE 720 and cram it in another folding machine


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103;14028539*
> source?


No source

I've been through a lot of releases to understand that this is the final countdown
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dustin88;14028549*
> they never gave a month, quarter 2 of the year can last till august, im waiting, going to be worth it. match that with the ATI HD 7*** series in August/September, and its a match in heaven, especially with fusion... cant wait for it. then i can take my BE 720 and cram it in another folding machine


HD7000 can be anytime within October-December


----------



## Narokuu

works for me =) worth the wait, unless i get a steal on a 6970 or 80 i wont need an upgrade, my GPus are keeping up with anything i throw at it


----------



## Dimaggio1103

so nobody has a source of when Bulldozer is releasing?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Honestly I don't even think AMD knows for sure.


----------



## Kvjavs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14028765*
> Honestly I don't even think AMD knows for sure.


Pretty much this.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103;14028796*
> If nobody has a release date with source then why so quick to say wait for BD?
> 
> Giving advice to "wait for BD" when you dont even know the release date seems wrong.












June 1st

60 to 90 days

July 31st to August 31st


----------



## Narokuu

zomg that red box looks sexy.... wait i shall, impressed i will be =)


----------



## Seronx

Now back to when Bulldozer was announced in August 2010



















SMT = 1/2 (i3s/i7s SMT)
CMP = 3/2 (AMD Phenom I-II/i5-2500K)
CMT = 1 (Bulldozer) / 2 (If only 1 core is used, Bulldozer)

But if only one core is active....what can be used

Everything that is shared:




























What a software engineer would see


----------



## love9sick

I wonder how the server processor is going for AMD.


----------



## Tator Tot

Thread is Closed pending a cleaning.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

OK i have cleaned the last few pages of the thread (100PPP)and removed over 150 posts.
This thread is for bulldozer news not phenom, llano, SB etc
No other action will be taken in regards to this cleaning but if I have to come back official action will be taken and the thread maybe locked permanently.


----------



## Narokuu

i have newegg on like spam right now.. sadly i have lsot my job, and may be selling Pc parts... hopefully i can get a jerb because i want a BD like meowww


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains;14039919*
> OK i have cleaned the last few pages of the thread (100PPP)and removed over 150 posts.
> This thread is for bulldozer news not phenom, llano, SB etc
> No other action will be taken in regards to this cleaning but if I have to come back official action will be taken and the thread maybe locked permanently.


Thanks for that. Let us hope that if people have comments/criticisms about other AMD products or want to post benchmarks showing the greatness of SB over PH II they will take it elsewhere.

OT, I am thinking it will be a early August launch with retail in the last week of August. This is my opinion based on the information received at Computex and various things I have read on other forums.

The most interesting information is the [H] event in mid to late July where bulldozer will be on display to the public and the fact that one of AMD's huge partners is releasing Deus X: Hitman Revolution at the end of August. The later was actually featured in the the FX video on the AMD website.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*


OK i have cleaned the last few pages of the thread (100PPP)and removed over 150 posts.
This thread is for bulldozer news not phenom, llano, SB etc
No other action will be taken in regards to this cleaning but if I have to come back official action will be taken and the thread maybe locked permanently.


You forgot one other thing....

If another mod has to come in later and clean up again too (yourself included), I'm thinking infractions should be handed out this time around.







Thread's been cleaned at LEAST 5 times just since I've been hired on staff.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains;14039919*
> OK i have cleaned the last few pages of the thread (100PPP)and removed over 150 posts.
> This thread is for bulldozer news not phenom, llano, SB etc
> No other action will be taken in regards to this cleaning but if I have to come back official action will be taken and the thread maybe locked permanently.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14040468*
> You forgot one other thing....
> 
> If another mod has to come in later and clean up again too (yourself included), I'm thinking infractions should be handed out this time around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thread's been cleaned at LEAST 5 times just since I've been hired on staff.


Thank you! I've been keeping a close eye on this thread and it's a bit annoying to get emails of updates on this thread only to find out it's unrelated nonsense.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

JF will the sever chips be overclockable?

Quote:



"While you set the [TDP] cap, you can still operate at a high frequency," he said.

In addition, businesses can keep the TDP at the level set by AMD, and change the frequencies of the processors to add power, while keeping the overall power use under the TDP.


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-an...nology-834387/

It seems as though you can set TDP and clocks based on your needs, will there be multiple sever chips? And if so what will differentiate the differences if server chips are now able to be custom clocked/tuned for individual business needs?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Yes indeed, it gets old pointing out the same clear as day facts over and over.

JF will the sever chips be overclockable?

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-an...nology-834387/

It seems as though you can set TDP and clocks based on your needs, will there be multiple sever chips? And if so what will differentiate the differences if server chips are now able to be custom clocked/tuned for individual business needs?


http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/06/28/tdp/

Use the source

PowerCap scales only downwards

---Now for something Bulldozer Related-----

















If you want me to get screenshots of the full sized architecture I can
Those are just 1 FP unit and 1 Execution core

Bulldozer/K15 has 2 excution cores which isn't shown


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Ahhh ic, someone should make an SR2 type board and figure out how to raise the TDP cap







32 bulldozer cores overclocked sounds like folding win to me.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


...
If you want me to get screensho...verclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]


----------



## OEM

I am waiting patiently to see what the chips do once released, I just bought an AM3+ board so I am sticking with AMD as long as I can! Make me proud, I picked the bulldozer platform over Sandy Bridge and actually lost gaming performance for doing so ATM!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


What an interesting read:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...rformance.aspx

Would love JF-AMD's thoughts on this story.


I think it is not true, like all the other rumors.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


JF will the sever chips be overclockable?


No

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Ahhh ic, someone should make an SR2 type board and figure out how to raise the TDP cap







32 bulldozer cores overclocked sounds like folding win to me.


There is no market for 2P client boards, it will not happen. You can't make money doing it.


----------



## Mit Namso

JF-AMD, is BD release now in about 30-60 days, going by what the AMD guy said at Computex on June 1st

And what will that be, full results of benchmarks...prices, retail sales launch dates?


----------



## Dropsquad

Oh lawd, i can't wait, I haven't looked through this thread much, but whats the rumored/estimated price going to be upon release? I just picke dup a 1055T to hold me over for the time being until the BD release.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


JF-AMD, is BD release now in about 30-60 days, going by what the AMD guy said at Computex on June 1st

And what will that be, full results of benchmarks...prices, retail sales launch dates?


I don't comment on that.


----------



## Tweeky

AMD starting to phase out Phenom II and Athlon II processors
In order to make room for the AMD next generation 28nm process in 2012
Do to the fact that BD has not been released and the 2nd generation BD is to be released in 2012 the 1st generation BD will be shot lived

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110629PD228.html


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14054540*
> I don't comment on that.


Is the company line now 30-60 days?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


JF-AMD, is BD release now in about 30-60 days, going by what the AMD guy said at Computex on June 1st

And what will that be, full results of benchmarks...prices, retail sales launch dates?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


*I don't comment on that.*



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


Is the company line now 30-60 days?










I think that he already answered you the first time....right?? Quit grilling him or he'll stop coming in here. They'll be out when they are released. I'm sure that you will hear about it at that time.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*









I think that he already answered you the first time....right?? Quit grilling him or he'll stop coming in here. They'll be out when they are released. I'm sure that you will hear about it at that time.


Well whats the name of an AMD person that can?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


Well whats the name of an AMD person that can?


No Body.

heh


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


Well whats the name of an AMD person that can?


JF tries not to comment on desktop related topics anymore as it has become a real pain given all the rumors about. If you ask him about the server release date he will happily tell you Q3... which is the last thing AMD has officially stated.

AFAIK, there is no AMD rep on this board for desktop. Also remember that JF does this on his own free time and not as part of his job at AMD.

All that being said, I have seen no news to make me think that AMD has changed the finish line again for Zambezi. Unless you are really in need of a CPU now (in which case you should get Sandy) then just wait to see what happens during the month of August.


----------



## nub

I'd like to know if G34 socket will be used for 20 core 'enhanced' bulldozer cpu's.


----------



## JF-AMD

No, the G2012 socket will be used for that.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Meh... Client and server CPUs based on BD are probably going to be released September after all. Sad, sad day for me.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14063171*
> Well whats the name of an AMD person that can?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14063714*
> No Body.
> 
> heh


^ That pretty much sums it up. Look, if there were an AMD rep on here for desktops, he/she still would not be able to tell us anything. If they could then there would already be public-facing info out there from their marketing dept. They have stated that they will be released in Sept, that's what we got......that's what we're working with.


----------



## Nocturin

Waiting waiting waiting.

Do you guys thing there will be some benchmarks at the HardOCP event?


----------



## motoray

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14066135*
> No, the G2012 socket will be used for that.


So its going to be a whole new socket? still backwards compatible or no? just curious.


----------



## gurusan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14077187*
> Waiting waiting waiting.
> 
> Do you guys thing there will be some benchmarks at the HardOCP event?


Of course there will be.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gurusan;14086392*
> Of course there will be.


Have they done an event like this with AMD before? I'm wondering why would choose [H] to launch benchmarks on something so hyped. (I'm new to the internet for computer hardware+forums)


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motoray;14077253*
> So its going to be a whole new socket? still backwards compatible or no? just curious.


No. G2012 will have integrated I/O so it will be completely different layout.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14065667*
> I'd like to know if G34 socket will be used for 20 core 'enhanced' bulldozer cpu's.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14066135*
> No, the G2012 socket will be used for that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motoray;14077253*
> So its going to be a whole new socket? still backwards compatible or no? just curious.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14086626*
> No. G2012 will have integrated I/O so it will be completely different layout.


So would it be fair to speculate incompatability of BD-e with am3+?


----------



## JF-AMD

I have no idea and have made the decision that commenting on client stuff only gave me grief because people on the boards can't act like adults. Since I do this on my own time I don't need the aggrivation.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Good going guys..., JF on behalf of those who made you waste your time and aggravated you i apologize please stay with us and give us more info when you can.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


So would it be fair to speculate uncompatability of BD-e with am3+?


Rumors say both Trinity and Enhanced Bulldozer will use a new socket called FMX. It's kind of bad for AMD's rep for backwards and forwards compatibility, but I guess since these are such radical changes they need to start fresh with a new socket. At least they're still better than Intel when it comes to socket compatibility...

Also I would take rumors about Bulldozer with a grain of salt as half of them are either just BS or someone taking a quote from JF-AMD, adding tons of speculation based on other rumors that were themselves BS, and then making a new BS rumor out of it (read: Xbit labs).


----------



## lan cable garrotte string

Can see it coming, sooner or later they will need to move to LGA.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have no idea and have made the decision that commenting on client stuff only gave me grief because people on the boards can't act like adults. Since I do this on my own time I don't need the aggrivation.


I wasn't directing the question at you, I understand your position, just bouncing an idea on forum, another speculation is that Enhanced will work with AM3+ but not AM3.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


I wasn't directing the question at you, I understand your position, just bouncing an idea on forum, another speculation is that Enhanced will work with AM3+ but not AM3.


bulldozer isnt even out ... and we dont even know the architecture fully .. so dont expect amd to tell us the details about BD-E

not even socket compatibility


----------



## fapestar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


bulldozer isnt even out ... and we dont even know the architecture fully .. so dont expect amd to tell us the details about BD-E

not even socket compatibility


I think that will pretty dumb of AMD to switch sockets, and hurt their sales. Everybody knows AMD heads are always trying to out perform their Intel nemesis. Switching sockets means paying more for Motherboard + Processor


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by ****estar*


I think that will pretty dumb of AMD to switch sockets, and hurt their sales. Everybody knows AMD heads are always trying to out perform their Intel nemesis. Switching sockets means paying more for Motherboard + Processor


Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that staying on one socket for too long will hurt features/performance. I don't think completely switching sockets would hurt their sales at all; if anything it might increase them because they can advertise "new socket" to OEMs with pretty marketing.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


bulldozer isnt even out ... and we dont even know the architecture fully .. so dont expect amd to tell us the details about BD-E

not even socket compatibility


Wasn't that what I said to JF? I've been following this thread and BD for longer than I care to remember, and one thing i've learnt is that AMD won't release info until launch, but that doesn't mean we can't ruminate on the subject.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that staying on one socket for too long will hurt features/performance. I don't think completely switching sockets would hurt their sales at all; if anything it might increase them because they can advertise "new socket" to OEMs with pretty marketing.










Exactly, a radically different arch and tons of new features should require a new socket, otherwise AMD won't be able to release the best chip they can. I imagine that after the switch to FMX, Next Generation Bulldozer and whatever comes after that (NGBD-E?) and whatever comes after whatever comes after that and so on will have the same backwards and forwards compatibility as AM2, AM2+, AM3, and AM3+ -- meaning that the CPU can be placed in the previous socket and previous socket CPUs can be placed in the newer socket.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14094509*
> Exactly, a radically different arch and tons of new features should require a new socket, otherwise AMD won't be able to release the best chip they can. I imagine that after the switch to FMX, Next Generation Bulldozer and whatever comes after that (NGBD-E?) and whatever comes after whatever comes after that and so on will have the same backwards and forwards compatibility as AM2, AM2+, AM3, and AM3+ -- meaning that the CPU can be placed in the previous socket and previous socket CPUs can be placed in the newer socket.


AM2, AM2+, AM3, and AM3+ like compability on a completely new socket line would do wonders, but the Northbridge/southbridge has also become stale. If they can implement new features/performance into the chipsets and to the socket, while advancing the cpu, it could be a very big win.

After thinking about this, I can understand why there are so few manufacturer in this industry. There is so much potential in this company.

I'm hoping with so much time to bake this new cpu arch, that BD pulls ahead, nicely increasing the competitiveness in the market.


----------



## Nexitus

Well I think the next socket change will probably come when their processor starts accepting DDR4 into their design. Unless BD-E does that, I don't think it is practical for them to change to a new socket design.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have no idea and have made the decision that commenting on client stuff only gave me grief because people on the boards can't act like adults. Since I do this on my own time I don't need the aggrivation.


JF-AMD can you tell us what is crippled on them Engineer Samples?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14104915*
> JF-AMD can you tell us what is crippled on them Engineer Samples?


Probably not.
AMD is going to quite some lengths to make sure "real" performance numbers aren't leaked. Sure old and potentially crippled engineer samples made it to the interwebs, but AMD expected as much.

Anyway... On July 15 (right?) [H]ard|OCP is having an event pertaining to K15.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14107412*
> Probably not.
> AMD is going to quite some lengths to make sure "real" performance numbers aren't leaked. Sure old and potentially crippled engineer samples made it to the interwebs, but AMD expected as much.
> 
> Anyway... On July 15 (right?) [H]ard|OCP is having an event pertaining to K15.


July 16th
Free Admission

I know


----------



## Evil Penguin

Ah! The 16th.
Thanks.


----------



## JF-AMD

Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?

Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.

Performance is based on:
The silicon
The microcode in the silicon
The BIOS
The compiler updates
The drivers
The OS optimizations
Performance tuning by engineers

When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.

There are too many people on the internet making stupid comments about BD performance based on engineering results that might or might not be real.

Everyone needs to take it down a notch because what you are seeing, if you are actually seeing real results, is not indicitive of the final performance. You should all be smart enough to understand this, but somehow I keep having to explain this over and over.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?

Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.

Performance is based on:
The silicon
The microcode in the silicon
The BIOS
The compiler updates
The drivers
The OS optimizations
Performance tuning by engineers

When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.

There are too many people on the internet making stupid comments about BD performance based on engineering results that might or might not be real.

Everyone needs to take it down a notch because what you are seeing, if you are actually seeing real results, is not indicitive of the final performance. You should all be smart enough to understand this, but somehow I keep having to explain this over and over.


JF, I think most people get it... but it is just frustration. People are waiting for something that might be good that will be released on a unknown date in Q3. In that type of situation sometimes frustration boils over and things are said that aren't really rational.

Let's just hope that there isn't another schedule slip and the desktop chips are released in August like it was stated in the keynote during Computex.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Perhaps people are getting a wee bit "desperate".
There is far too much conflicting information out there to jump to any reasonable conclusions regarding BD.

All we can do is wait it out.
Just like the dozens of times before.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?

Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.

Performance is based on:
The silicon
The microcode in the silicon
The BIOS
The compiler updates
The drivers
The OS optimizations
Performance tuning by engineers

When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.

There are too many people on the internet making stupid comments about BD performance based on engineering results that might or might not be real.

Everyone needs to take it down a notch because what you are seeing, if you are actually seeing real results, is not indicitive of the final performance. You should all be smart enough to understand this, but somehow I keep having to explain this over and over.


Thank you for that explanation. I learned something. You sir, need a vacation.


----------



## el gappo

JF forgot one little thing that is the main performance factor in the case of OBR's results.

*THE USER.*


----------



## ShiftedReality

Yeah JF-AMD some people don't understand. They see benchmarks real or not and are like it sucks or its slow, when it is not the final product. People will never understand ES is engineering sample, which basically for people who don't understand is for testing to make sure the all the features work.

Performance comes after all the testing is done 100%. Some just never understand it.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14110811*
> Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?
> 
> Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.
> 
> Performance is based on:
> The silicon
> The microcode in the silicon
> The BIOS
> The compiler updates
> The drivers
> The OS optimizations
> Performance tuning by engineers
> 
> When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.
> 
> There are too many people on the internet making stupid comments about BD performance based on engineering results that might or might not be real.
> 
> Everyone needs to take it down a notch because what you are seeing, if you are actually seeing real results, is not indicitive of the final performance. You should all be smart enough to understand this, but somehow I keep having to explain this over and over.


i love you


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


JF forgot one little thing that is the main performance factor in the case of OBR's results.

*THE USER. *


We have a *USER* in our midst. Programs, listen closely....

That and OBRs results are the only fruit there has been lately, but the good news is more stuff should come out soon









I'm Excited


----------



## Twanky

JF, seeing as how you work for the company, hopefully you'll be able to pass along some info as it's released to you guys. If that happens, at least we'll know it's truly legit. I'm more of an AMD fan but I know both AMD & Intel make a phenomenal product and what alot of people seem to forget is that in the competition between AMD and Intel, we are all winners. It's very shortsighted when I hear people make comments where you can tell they want BD to fail, because the only thing that produces innovation, is competition.

If I may ask, internally over at AMD, what's the overall sentiment of the coming of BD?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twanky;14126158*
> JF, seeing as how you work for the company, hopefully you'll be able to pass along some info as it's released to you guys. If that happens, at least we'll know it's truly legit. I'm more of an AMD fan but I know both AMD & Intel make a phenomenal product and what alot of people seem to forget is that in the competition between AMD and Intel, we are all winners. It's very shortsighted when I hear people make comments where you can tell they want BD to fail, because the only thing that produces innovation, is competition.
> 
> If I may ask, internally over at AMD, what's the overall sentiment of the coming of BD?


Just FYI, JF works on the server side of things, so he will not and cannot comment on the client stuff. But I think he has high praise for the G34/C32 socket BDs. JF?


----------



## Usario

People, please stop complaining about how BD is "late". First of all, to my knowledge AMD never actually said Q2 but "leaked AMD slides" said so. Second, would you rather have them release a perfected chip in August or another Phenom (original) in June?


----------



## purpleannex

Hate to be the one to break it you, but your knowledge is lacking. If you read the blog that this thread is actually supposed to be about, AMD said:
Quote:


> Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


Source

But they did say "expect" which is not definite.


----------



## JF-AMD

It is quiet period, obviously I am not saying anything.


----------



## Narokuu

 does that mean..... hmmmm wait i shall, happy ill be


----------



## linkin93

I'm curious, what's the major difference between AMD's mainstream and server CPU sockets, apart from number of pins? Or is that all there is?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14128053*
> It is quiet period, obviously I am not saying anything.


Good idea.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14128099*
> I'm curious, what's the major difference between AMD's mainstream and server CPU sockets, apart from number of pins? Or is that all there is?


The server sockets are LGA.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14127571*
> Hate to be the one to break it you, but your knowledge is lacking. If you read the blog that this thread is actually supposed to be about, AMD said:
> 
> Source
> 
> But they did say "expect" which is not definite.


I stand corrected.


----------



## wahrheitoderpflicht

I dont like to wait, but if amd will actually release a chip that competes/runs over intel (like the good ol days aka Thunderbird) then I will be thrilled







and will be happy to wait.


----------



## micul

this look promising

http://www.overclockersclub.com/news/28759/


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *micul*


this look promising

http://www.overclockersclub.com/news/28759/


Wow! Where did you find that? I haven't seen that before....

http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...erclocked.html

http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...1-ghz-air.html

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy...w=1226&bih=920


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I just hope amd can either do better in terms of performance or at least equal Intels pricing/performance. I would like to support AMD, but I am an enthusiast first.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Rumors say both Trinity and Enhanced Bulldozer will use a new socket called FMX. It's kind of bad for AMD's rep for backwards and forwards compatibility, but I guess since these are such radical changes they need to start fresh with a new socket. At least they're still better than Intel when it comes to socket compatibility...

Also I would take rumors about Bulldozer with a grain of salt as half of them are either just BS or someone taking a quote from JF-AMD, adding tons of speculation based on other rumors that were themselves BS, and then making a new BS rumor out of it (read: Xbit labs).


Not a Rumor.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...2012-roadmap/1


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *45nm*


Not a Rumor.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...2012-roadmap/1











Hmm, my interpretation of that slide is:
Zambezi will be the only Bulldozer CPU we'll see for AM3+.
Going forward, both enthusiast and mainstream parts will be consolidated and use the same socket - FMx. A good thing for consumers although may not be so good in the short term.
Trinity may or may not be backwards compatible with FM1. I'm assuming the x in FMx denotes a number kinda like AM2 and AM3.


----------



## nub

edit: rather I am wondering if Valencia will be released at or near same time as Interlagos.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *45nm*


Not a Rumor.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...2012-roadmap/1











will the 1st generation BD work on the socket after AM3+


----------



## hazarada

so am3+ is going to last (get new processor releases) for a whole 3 months? and i thought intel was greedy with its sockets







if they are going to replace it so soon and most am3 boards support BD anyway what was the point of 990x boards anyway?


----------



## el gappo

I'm more curious as what's going to happen to FM1. Bulldozer cores coming to the mainstream in 2012 and not on the new mainstream platform seems... Crazy. They wouldn't drop a platform after less than a year.

I can only presume the 'x' in FMx is a variable and not an actual socket.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14146281*
> I'm more curious as what's going to happen to FM1. Bulldozer cores coming to the mainstream in 2012 and not on the new mainstream platform seems... Crazy.


Actually, that part's understandable. Llano is AMD's first try at combining the CPU and GPU into one die. It's smarter to use existing tech (K10) instead of having to deal with two unknowns. That's what Intel did with Clarkdale. New CPU but they just re-used a beefed up version of their 45nm integrated graphics. Besides, it's not like Llano didn't have its share of problems as it is.

What I don't understand is why AMD even bothered with AM3+ if they're going to replace it with a different socket so quickly.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14146238*
> so am3+ is going to last (get new processor releases) for a whole 3 months? and i thought intel was greedy with its sockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if they are going to replace it so soon and most am3 boards support BD anyway what was the point of 990x boards anyway?


The point was to offer a board that offered full use of the CPU. Which included things like the energy saving features of CnQ.

But if the rumors are true and BD is only a one socket wonder(which is kinda doubtful given AMD's track record) then I'll be happy *content* to run BD on my current board and wait for CVIF or whatever they're going to name the next Crosshair Board.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;14143381*
> Hmm, my interpretation of that slide is:
> 
> Zambezi will be the only Bulldozer CPU we'll see for AM3+.
> Going forward, both enthusiast and mainstream parts will be consolidated and use the same socket - FMx. A good thing for consumers although may not be so good in the short term.
> Trinity may or may not be backwards compatible with FM1. I'm assuming the x in FMx denotes a number kinda like AM2 and AM3.


You are correct in that interpretation. Zambezei will have highler-clocked variants that will appear in Calendar Quarter Q4 and possibly further variants in 2012. However those will be strictly limited to AM3+. If the Roadmaps are correct then we will see something of this manner:
Quote:


> FM0 ? 1 channel: Bobcat & followons
> FM1 ? 2 channel: mobile and low power APUs - AM3+ compatible CPUs (~C32 socket)*
> FM2 ? 3 channel: mainstream Desktop and high power mobile APUs - enhanced Bulldozer CPUs
> FM3 ? 4 channel: enhanced Bulldozer CPUs and workstation APUs (~G34 socket)
> * FM1 for APUs initially includes mainstream desktop APUs - AM3+ for CPUs (legacy ~ enhanced Bulldozer w/fewer cores)


http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=532&t=138645

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14143925*
> will the 1st generation BD work on the socket after AM3+


That's a difficult question to answer or speculate on. If FM2/FM3 move to a LGA arrangement such as G34 it won't be possible. However if they continue to use a PGA it may be possible.


----------



## Catscratch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm;14140549*
> Not a Rumor.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/06/14/amd-reveals-2012-roadmap/1


Sigh, I guess Zambezi will be sub-par to sandybridge and Komodo will be between sandy and ivy.


----------



## JF-AMD

One out of 32,768,542 rumors were true.

Actually, by just saying that all rumors are not true, you would have a 99.9999999% chance of being right.

I like those odds better.

I once had a discussion with someone on another board and he swore up and down that he had a bulldozer in front of him. Funny, we had not taped the processor out yet.


----------



## Console-hater

Totally irrevelent question, but do you get benefits of working for AMD (Getting free CPUs and possibly graphic card) and other things?

Also, does AMD have their offices in England?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I once had a discussion with someone on another board and he swore up and down that he had a bulldozer in front of him. Funny, we had not taped the processor out yet.


I want to see this


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Console-hater*


Totally irrevelent question, but do you get benefits of working for AMD (Getting free CPUs and possibly graphic card) and other things?

Also, does AMD have their offices in England?


I have a stack of processors at home. I can get anything I want but tend to run fairly pedestrian systems. Probably won't get a BD for home until Q4 when I am finally done with all my travel.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I want to see this


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...rons&p=4251507

Dated Feb 20, 2010, claimed he had a BD in front of him. We had not taped out the processor on that date. What killed me was that because we had not made a public statement on tapeout, I was not able to tell everyone why he was wrong.

That is what makes this forum thing suck sometimes. Someone tells a lie and you know it is wrong, you have data to show that it is wrong, and you can't expose the lie.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...rons&p=4251507

Dated Feb 20, 2010, claimed he had a BD in front of him. We had not taped out the processor on that date. What killed me was that because we had not made a public statement on tapeout, I was not able to tell everyone why he was wrong.

That is what makes this forum thing suck sometimes. Someone tells a lie and you know it is wrong, you have data to show that it is wrong, and you can't expose the lie.


Coming from you, it just has to be said for it to be believed -- no proof required. At least in my eyes.


----------



## liberato87

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/...-sonuclari.htm


----------



## Usario

As JF has said so many times, these ES benchmark leaks (if they're actually real... 99% of the time they're not) mean nothing because engineering samples do not represent the final chip's performance. Remember what happened with Sledgehammer?


----------



## 45nm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/...-sonuclari.htm


http://www.overclock.net/14152426-post36.html


----------



## Ceadderman

Rumor was that BD would run in AM3 boards with a BIOS update. Now JF never stated that this was false so I'm not busting chops here. In fact I rather respect JF and his novel approach of listening and divulging what he can without making others feel inferior.

But point is that would be two rumors that were true. Granted the bulk of the rumor mill is ground out by untrained chimps, but some rumors just hold up to careful scrutiny.









~Ceadder


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*


Rumor was that BD would run in AM3 boards with a BIOS update. Now JF never stated that this was false so I'm not busting chops here. In fact I rather respect JF and his novel approach of listening and divulging what he can without making others feel inferior.

But point is that would be two rumors that were true. Granted the bulk of the rumor mill is ground out by untrained chimps, but some rumors just hold up to careful scrutiny.









~Ceadder










The official ASUS website, and the I think MSI's official website say the BD will work in some of their AM3 MBs after a BIOS update.

That is NOT a rumour


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/...-sonuclari.htm
]


You forgot the benchmarks AMDs ES Bulldozer got good scores




























that 2MBx4 L2 comes in handy over Intels measly 256KBx4 L2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *45nm*


http://www.overclock.net/14152426-post36.html


Bulldozer has been supported since 1.56.4 Beta which became 1.57(Feb 2011)

Since you can't download 1.57.1 on the official page 1.57.1 added the names while 1.56.4/1.57 only had "AMD Processor"

1.58 Beta adds the retail versions and 1.58 official support


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liberato87;14152147*
> http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/haberleri/On-inceleme-AMDnin-8-cekirdekli-Bulldozer-FX-islemci-ve-test-sonuclari.htm


I sure hope the the superPi 1M times are much better on retail BD

with my system OC I get 17.129s

I don't have an opinion on the other benches because I have no experience with them


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14153896*
> Rumor was that BD would run in AM3 boards with a BIOS update. Now JF never stated that this was false so I'm not busting chops here. In fact I rather respect JF and his novel approach of listening and divulging what he can without making others feel inferior.
> 
> But point is that would be two rumors that were true. Granted the bulk of the rumor mill is ground out by untrained chimps, but some rumors just hold up to careful scrutiny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


If you look back you will see that I said "not supported."

I run an Opteron 1389 in a Gigabyte AM2 board. It is not supported. It works. Do I get the best performance? I don't know. Do I get all the features? I don't know. If it stops working, who can I call? Nobody.

Not making any claims about any manufacturer regarding BD in AM3, just that some may find that while something works, that does not mean it is optimal.

My biggest concern is someone who puts a BD in an AM3, doesn't get exactly what they hoped for and then starts badmouthing AMD.

And you KNOW it will happen. It always does.


----------



## hazarada

do you have any information regarding am3+ infrastructure being swapped out in 2012 tho? like if its just another backwards compatible socket/chipset or something completely new?

some of us like to hold on to our enthusiast expensive boards for a while.. not swap them out every time a new cpu comes along. i miss the times when cpu's were developed for sockets not the other way around.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I don't believe he comments on the client side of stuff.
Anyway, I doubt FM1 will replace AM3+ on the enthusiast side.
Perhaps a variation of it will.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14156604*
> My biggest concern is someone who puts a BD in an AM3, doesn't get exactly what they hoped for and then starts badmouthing AMD.
> 
> And you KNOW it will happen. It always does.


Yes, it will. However, no worries here... I'll form my own opinion based on my own experience vs. reading someone else's. Now, if you could just hurry the release along a little









J/k JF, I know you have nothing to do with that. However, I am a little impatient sitting on all this new hardware w/o the proper means to run it.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14156604*
> If you look back you will see that I said "not supported."
> 
> I run an Opteron 1389 in a Gigabyte AM2 board. It is not supported. It works. Do I get the best performance? I don't know. Do I get all the features? I don't know. If it stops working, who can I call? Nobody.
> 
> Not making any claims about any manufacturer regarding BD in AM3, just that some may find that while something works, that does not mean it is optimal.
> 
> _My biggest concern is someone who puts a BD in an AM3, doesn't get exactly what they hoped for and then starts badmouthing AMD._
> 
> And you KNOW it will happen. It always does.


Yup, agreed. Unfortunately people were already doing that with the tardiness of the CPU.

Me? I'ma laugh my butt off when BD turns out to be better than that Sandy they went after cause they were too impatient to wait it out. An I'll be upgrading using my Board.









Can't be mad at the Proc manufacturer when I already know what the limitations will be. Hopefully ASUS works hard to get the rest working smoothly. If not... "Oops, my bad







color me embarrassed"...









But I just want you to know that you're appreciated round here.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14157230*
> Yup, agreed. Unfortunately people were already doing that with the tardiness of the CPU.
> 
> Me? I'ma laugh my butt off when BD turns out to be better than that Sandy they went after cause they were too impatient to wait it out. An I'll be upgrading using my Board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't be mad at the Proc manufacturer when I already know what the limitations will be. Hopefully ASUS works hard to get the rest working smoothly. If not... "Oops, my bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> color me embarrassed"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that you're appreciated round here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


You got that right man! It's nice to have someone on the "inside" that can help out on these forums, and I'm sorry JF that some here have not been adults when it comes to posts.
OT: Just out of curiosity, since yer a server guy, what are/will be the differences between Socket C32 and G34 for BD? Just packaging?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14159966*
> You got that right man! It's nice to have someone on the "inside" that can help out on these forums, and I'm sorry JF that some here have not been adults when it comes to posts.
> OT: Just out of curiosity, since yer a server guy, what *are/will be the differences between Socket C32 and G34 for BD? Just packaging?*


Pinless as far as I am aware but JF would know better than I would.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14160020*
> Pinless as far as I am aware but JF would know better than I would.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


Yeah that's what I thought that G34 was LGA and C32 was PGA. I need to look up the performance differences between the two with normal Opterons.


----------



## JF-AMD

Both are LGA. The C32 package has 1207 connections and is square. The G34 package is larger to accommodate 2 dies amd has 1944 connections.

C32 is very similar to the old 1207 socket, it is the same physical dimensions but we swapped some pin assignments to make the products work better, so they are not compatible at all. As well, the old 1207 was DDR2 so we could not make that work with DDR3. Technically we probably could have but would have had OEMs screaming if someone could put a DDR2 product in a DDR3 because that massively increases the test matrix.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14161067*
> Both are LGA. The C32 package has 1207 connections and is square. The G34 package is larger to accommodate 2 dies amd has 1944 connections.
> 
> C32 is very similar to the old 1207 socket, it is the same physical dimensions but we swapped some pin assignments to make the products work better, so they are not compatible at all. As well, the old 1207 was DDR2 so we could not make that work with DDR3. Technically we probably could have but would have had OEMs screaming if someone could put a DDR2 product in a DDR3 because that massively increases the test matrix.


Thanks JF. I was thinking of C32 being PGA but I was wrong (I had socket 940 on the brain







)


----------



## hazarada

JF can u tell us if zambezi IMC will have ECC functionality? It looks like the 8gb unbuffered sticks that are popping up are all ECC capable so would be nice to be able to utilize it.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


JF can u tell us if zambezi IMC will have ECC functionality? It looks like the 8gb unbuffered sticks that are popping up are all ECC capable so would be nice to be able to utilize it.


Ooooooooooo, 2ea 8-core BD's on a socket C32 system with 64gb of ram!! OHHHHHH YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!










http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131670


----------



## Narokuu

i just lold


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Ooooooooooo, 2ea 8-core BD's on a socket C32 system with 64gb of ram!! OHHHHHH YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


2ea 8 core Valencia*

I would recommend people to get the

Dual Socket G34 from ASUS

Which can support two 16-core Interlagos and 2 GPUs(Dual slot)/4 GPUs(Single Slot)
a [email protected] dream machine

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131643


----------



## caraboose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


2ea 8 core Valencia*

I would recommend people to get the

Dual Socket G34 from ASUS

Which can support two 16-core Interlagos and 2 GPUs(Dual slot)/4 GPUs(Single Slot)
a [email protected] dream machine

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131643

Right JF-AMD?


I have that motherboard, I'm pretty happy with it, mind you if you want to overclock, this is not the board for you, since overclocking is not an option on it.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *caraboose*


I have that motherboard, I'm pretty happy with it, mind you if you want to overclock, this is not the board for you, since overclocking is not an option on it.


None of the server motherboards support overclocking I believe


----------



## caraboose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


None of the server motherboards support overclocking I believe


Depends if you call the SR-2 a server board or not. Could be argued either way, personally I don't call it one.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *caraboose*


Depends if you call the SR-2 a server board or not. Could be argued either way, personally I don't call it one.


I'm talking about AMD Server Boards


----------



## caraboose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I'm talking about AMD Server Boards


Ah, fair enough.


----------



## Killam0n

some intresting info on dozer Zambezi of the BULLDOZER PLATFORM

http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/23381-bulldozer-performance-figures-are-in

wait: Zambezi/Valencia/Interlagos are all based on the Bulldozer architecture - WHAT? I cant call that dozer?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176357*
> some intresting info on dozer
> 
> http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/23381-bulldozer-performance-figures-are-in


That is actually Zambezi not Bulldozer

To say Bulldozer in general performs like that is wrong

That is a Zambezi Engineer Sample as stated before it isn't made to perform it is made to function and test CPU functions

The consumers will get a higher-end product that will most likely get a higher clock on both the stock and turbo core and tweaks that will increase performance of other functions of the CPU like the L1 through L3 caches via write/read/copy

*Zambezi* based processors are built for the AM3+ Socket
*Valencia* based processors are built for the C32 Socket
*Interlagos* based processors are built for the G34 Socket

*Zambezi*/*Valencia*/*Interlagos* are all based on the *Bulldozer* architecture

and last time I checked the leaks all these CPUs have varying clock speeds with the Zambezi having the highest clock speeds

The scores only go up!


----------



## Killam0n

wait: Zambezi/Valencia/Interlagos are all based on the Bulldozer architecture - WHAT? I cant call that dozer?

bulldozer is a platform, this would be an accurate benchmark of the bulldozer platform am I wrong? even if its beta testing its still benching dozer.

so what your saying.. is that I can only bench i7 990x processors when refering to x58 platform? what?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176497*
> wait: Zambezi/Valencia/Interlagos are all based on the Bulldozer architecture - WHAT? I cant call that dozer?
> 
> bulldozer is a platform, this would be an accurate benchmark of the bulldozer platform am I wrong? even if its beta testing its still benching dozer.


All the products are going for different tweaks

*Zambezi* is the Gamer-Enthusiast Desktop CPU Line
*Valencia* is the Entry-Level Server CPU Line
*Interlagos* is the High-End Server CPU Line

*Zambezi* is going for the gamer and overclocking enthusiast it will be tweaked for that purpose

*Valencia* is for entry level servers which I'm guessing are for data and web? and it is tweaked for that

*Interlagos* is for high-end servers which I'm guessing are for HPCs and it is tweaked for that

They are all using *Bulldozer* in a way but are tweaked for dedicated/different tasks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176497*
> so what your saying.. is that I can only bench i7 990x processors when refering to x58 platform? what?


No

990X is a Desktop CPU

*Bulldozer* is a Architecture which
*Zambezi*/*Valencia*/*Interlagos* use

*Zambezi* is a Desktop CPU
*Valencia*/*Interlagos* isn't

To say *Bulldozer* is a CPU is incorrect it's an architecture


----------



## Killam0n

then I am correct in saying this is an early look at some beta testing bench info pertaining to the zambezi processor of the bulldozer platform (which is supposed to be the best performing for gaming)

at this juncture the chip is benching somewhat slower than the Core i7 990X intel's flag ship processor which bulldozer is supposed to be competing with - if your in the market for the best of the best computer hardware with no regard to cost your still going to buy an intel 990x Core i7 processor.

AMD still has some "tweaking" to do before launch so you might expect some improvements in performance still to come.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176531*
> then I am correct in saying this is an early look at some beta testing bench info pertaining to the zambezi processor of the bulldozer platform (which is supposed to be the best performing for gaming)


Only Zambezi....

The Platform for Zambezi is called Scorpius

The Architecture of Zambezi is called Bulldozer

Architecture =/= Platform

Bulldozer is a Foundation not a Platform
The Foundation helps support the Platform

And if you know anything about foundations they can be tweaked for different things

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Image-Found-House-Apt.png
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176531*
> at this juncture the chip is benching somewhat slower than the Core i7 990X intel's flag ship processor which bulldozer is supposed to be competing with - if your in the market for the best of the best computer hardware with no regard to cost your still going to buy an intel 990x Core i7 processor.


That is just arrogance
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176531*
> AMD still has some "tweaking" to do before launch so you might expect some improvements in performance still to come.












It is correct but Engineer Sample Clocks =/= Consumer/Reviewer Sample Clocks

3.2GHz(stock clock) vs 3.8GHz(stock clock)


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176531*
> if your in the market for the best of the best computer hardware with no regard to cost your still going to buy an intel 990x Core i7 processor.


Cost is always a factor in the real world.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14176997*
> Cost is always a factor in the real world.


True statement is True


----------



## Narokuu

agreed


----------



## Mit Namso

AMD should just send us OCers free BD, theres not that many of us


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


AMD should just send us OCers free BD, theres not that many of us


I second this idea, I'll gladly start OC'ing.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14169693*
> JF can u tell us if zambezi IMC will have ECC functionality? It looks like the 8gb unbuffered sticks that are popping up are all ECC capable so would be nice to be able to utilize it.


Don't comment on client.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14174295*
> None of the server motherboards support overclocking I believe


Correct.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176497*
> wait: Zambezi/Valencia/Interlagos are all based on the Bulldozer architecture - WHAT? I cant call that dozer?
> 
> bulldozer is a platform, this would be an accurate benchmark of the bulldozer platform am I wrong? even if its beta testing its still benching dozer.
> 
> so what your saying.. is that I can only bench i7 990x processors when refering to x58 platform? what?


Technically, bulldozer is the CORE code name. It is not a platform.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;14176531*
> at this juncture the chip is benching somewhat slower than the Core i7 990X intel's flag ship processor which bulldozer is supposed to be competing with - if your in the market for the best of the best computer hardware with no regard to cost your still going to buy an intel 990x Core i7 processor.
> 
> AMD still has some "tweaking" to do before launch so you might expect some improvements in performance still to come.


1. Unless your name is "Rockefeller" your first statement is meaningless.

2. Until you have final benchmarks at launch, most likely everything you have seen to date is probably not a.) real or b.) accurate or c.) both.


----------



## soth7676

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14189031*
> Don't comment on client.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> Technically, bulldozer is the CORE code name. It is not a platform.
> 
> 1. Unless your name is "Rockefeller" your first statement is meaningless.


I love this, pwned!!...XD .... I will admit , I wish I had near unlimited funds to get one of intel's overpriced extreme edition CPUs everytime they poop out another one, but my SO would kill me if I did that... was lucky enough to be able get a SB rig and can build a BD rig, only cause I am giving my phenom II rig to the kids to play on..

I can't wait to try out a BD and 7950 crossfired setup...









Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## jck

August is 3 weeks away...and I'm still patiently waiting for Bulldozer to see what the comparison in performance is.

Hope it's been worth the wait.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


August is 3 weeks away...and I'm still patiently waiting for Bulldozer to see what the comparison in performance is.

Hope it's been worth the wait.











At the rate AMD is going, you'll be waiting 'till END of August for BD.

60 - 90 days means closer to 90 days.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


At the rate AMD is going, you'll be waiting 'till END of August for BD.

60 - 90 days means closer to 90 days.










I see it coming earlier

around the 60 days marker

Having an Engineer Sample(AMD) beat a Production Sample(Intel) isn't that good for intel
(Since, the production sample is most likely clocked higher and has less heat leakage(which effects performance))

990FXs came the day after the June 1st Chipset launch when it had enough time to come 30 days after

So, if not July 31st then August 1st if history repeats


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I see it coming earlier

around the 60 days marker

Having an Engineer Sample(AMD) beat a Production Sample(Intel) isn't that good for intel
(Since, the production sample is most likely clocked higher and has less heat leakage(which effects performance))

990FXs came the day after the June 1st Chipset launch when it had enough time to come 30 days after

So, if not July 31st then August 1st if history repeats


I guess we shall see... BD is already 2 years late, and I'm over the waiting game, when it comes, it comes.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Having an Engineer Sample(AMD) beat a Production Sample(Intel) isn't that good for intel










that news definitely made me hold on to my money a little longer


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I guess we shall see... BD is already 2 years late, and I'm over the waiting game, when it comes, it comes.


Nope, Bulldozer taped out last year

It isn't late

Bulldozer was expected to tape out in the 45nm HKMG process in 2009 but it didn't so in reality it was never delayed(If it was taped out in 2009 it would have released in 2010 but wouldn't that have been stupid in a way when 45nm HKMG was killed off by GloFo)

Instead it taped out in 2010 in the 32nm HKMG process

Taped out(Q2-Q3 2010) -> Engineer Samples(Q3 2010-Q2 2011) -> Release (Q2-Q3 2011)










Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chico212*









that news definitely made me hold on to my money a little longer


I want clarify this,

Engineer Sample to Production Sample expect a performance increase how big we will find out
I would buy the Engineer Sample if I could but knowing that the retail samples will or might have a higher clock and will or might have less heat leakage is good enough for me


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Nope, Bulldozer taped out last year

It isn't late

Bulldozer was expected to tape out in the 45nm HKMG process in 2009 but it didn't so in reality it was never delayed(If it was taped out in 2009 it would have released in 2010)

Instead it taped out in 2010 in the 32nm HKMG process

Taped out(Q2-Q3 2010) -> Engineer Samples(Q4 2010- Q2 2011) -> Release (Q3 2011)











You just said it was SUPPOSED to be out in 2009, and therefore it's late. Been waiting for this thing for 4 years.

Quote:



AMD is preparing an all-new PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. *Due out in the first half of 2009, the new architecture is codenamed Bulldozer.* In an official announcement, AMD said Bulldozer will be its first substantially new CPU core since the original Athlon 64 processor of 2003.


http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...or-2009-146488


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Quote 1 Quote 2


July 30th 2007

http://www.dailytech.com/Understandi...rticle9915.htm

December 5th 2007

Events can delay roadmaps

and Roadmaps for AMD are not final










AMD Roadmaps are subject to change without notice


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


AMD Roadmaps are subject to change.


Clearly.









If you're ok with waiting, good for you.

I been hearing about Bulldozer for over 4 years now, and was originally expecting it to be out in 2009 as hyped up by AMD. If it somehow gets delayed again, I won't be surprised or shocked at this point.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Clearly.









If you're ok with waiting, good for you.

I been hearing about Bulldozer for over 4 years now, and was originally expecting it to be out in 2009 as hyped up by AMD.












and if you look to the picture I don't see a "Subject to change"


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


and if you look to the picture I don't see a "Subject to change"



















Like I said, "I'll believe it when I see it"

AMD roadmaps are ALWAYS subject to change without notice.

Did we not get our hopes up that BD would be out June 20th?

AMD waited 'till last minute to acknowledge that BD was in fact delayed, despite all the rumors flying around.

Quote:



Product Schedules â€" This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of â€œBulldozerâ€ (code named â€œZambeziâ€) in Q2 2011. The server products (â€œInterlagosâ€ and â€œValenciaâ€) will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


Since you're expecting it August 1st, if it isn't launched by then, I will be sure to come here on August 2nd to say "I told you so".









Heck, I'm even willing to bet $$$ that it won't be launched August 1st.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Like I said, "I'll believe it when I see it"


Fine

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


AMD roadmaps are ALWAYS subject to change without notice.


That isn't a roadmap, that is telling us when to expect the "Zambezi" particle in a box

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Did we not get our hopes up that BD would be out June 20th?


June 1st happened and told us to wait quite deliberately

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


AMD waited 'till last minute to acknowledge that BD was in fact delayed, despite all the rumors flying around.


Rumors that were false, Bulldozer/Zambezi performs exceptionally well

Theo is silly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Since you're expecting it August 1st, if it isn't launched by then, I will be sure to come here on August 2nd to say "I told you so".










60 to 90 days but when it gives a time table it usually means certain retailers are faster than others

The biggest rumor that might be accurate the Llano and Zambezi launches were switched and seeing that Llano indeed launched June 30th(store listings came a little after but it was still in the range) makes me have a hint of hope







that it will launch July 31st with the CPUs coming in stores 1-7 days after like Llano

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Heck, I'm even willing to bet $$$ that it won't be launched August 1st.










I am underaged I can't gamble state law


----------



## Fr0sty

theres an event on july 16 ... this might be a precursor to the unveiling of the client version of bulldozer product to the public ... with maybe some benchmarks or lift of nda ??? or something like that


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


June 1st happened and told us to wait quite deliberately


I was OBVIOUSLY referring to all the rumors that Bulldozer was delayed *PRIOR *to June 1st.

Some of us followed this stuff daily, and people were in denial that Bulldozer was in fact delayed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Rumors that were false, *Bulldozer/Zambezi performs exceptionally well*












Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I am underaged


I understand why we're going in circles.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*












http://www.overclock.net/14155650-post1583.html

http://fudzilla.com/processors/item/...figures-are-in

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...e_sandy_bridge

http://vr-zone.com/articles/purporte...ked/12914.html

http://www.overclock.net/14152147-post1578.html

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I was OBVIOUSLY referring to all the rumors that Bulldozer was delayed *PRIOR *to June 1st.

Some of us followed this stuff daily, and people were in denial that Bulldozer was in fact delayed.


I followed this since January and over time knowledge becomes more and more accessible

----
and the above leak I know that it is a real Engineer Sample is because of the letters and numbers


















43 is A1
44 is B0
45 is B1
4 is 4 cores
6 is 6 cores
8 is 8 cores
K means it has 8MB of L3
W means AM3r2
Z means Engineering Sample
D means Desktop

http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/...Enabled-6.jpg/

If I was going to guess the middle numbers

3XXX and 46 or 51
------
Because we are getting late in thread I'll find notable posts by JF-AMD

http://www.overclock.net/10213459-post1.html

http://www.overclock.net/10214120-post7.html

http://www.overclock.net/10214459-post14.html

http://www.overclock.net/10221237-post29.html

http://www.overclock.net/10221256-post30.html

http://www.overclock.net/10228979-post44.html

http://www.overclock.net/10280407-post66.html

http://www.overclock.net/10285077-post68.html

http://www.overclock.net/10333564-post94.html

http://www.overclock.net/10449553-post109.html

http://www.overclock.net/10460270-post123.html

http://www.overclock.net/10521943-post141.html

http://www.overclock.net/10537827-post163.html

http://www.overclock.net/10607869-post187.html

http://www.overclock.net/10610503-post194.html

http://www.overclock.net/10897321-post235.html

http://www.overclock.net/11483078-post256.html

http://www.overclock.net/11490329-post259.html

http://www.overclock.net/11500983-post261.html <-- lol JF-AMD is a hardcore wii gamer

http://www.overclock.net/11519918-post267.html

http://www.overclock.net/11587550-post273.html <-- JF-AMD has a cool bike

http://www.overclock.net/11668657-post279.html

http://www.overclock.net/11804854-post295.html

http://www.overclock.net/11851528-post301.html

http://www.overclock.net/11897788-post313.html

http://www.overclock.net/11913071-post316.html

http://www.overclock.net/11926687-post339.html <--- big hint

http://www.overclock.net/11935836-post348.html <-- another big hint

http://www.overclock.net/11942490-post353.html <-- big hint

http://www.overclock.net/11948015-post357.html

http://www.overclock.net/11963044-post359.html

http://www.overclock.net/12053490-post423.html

http://www.overclock.net/12055422-post425.html

http://www.overclock.net/12408378-post553.html

http://www.overclock.net/12426560-post562.html <-- I can answer this 1.6 Billion Trannies and 320mm^2 max possible trolololol

http://www.overclock.net/12474800-post594.html

http://www.overclock.net/12564841-post608.html

http://www.overclock.net/12607433-post642.html <-- JF AMD is cautious secret agent man

http://www.overclock.net/12681541-post672.html

http://www.overclock.net/12691379-post682.html

http://www.overclock.net/12758263-post727.html

Everything starts to repeat from now on

http://www.overclock.net/12770587-post738.html

http://www.overclock.net/12788871-post758.html

http://www.overclock.net/12792974-post760.html <-- if the mods deleted everyones posts except JF-AMDs we would already know everything by now lol

http://www.overclock.net/12823850-post772.html

http://www.overclock.net/12892710-post798.html <-- price is speculation

http://www.overclock.net/12894099-post800.html

http://www.overclock.net/12914382-post810.html

http://www.overclock.net/12928373-post818.html

http://www.overclock.net/13172102-post890.html <-- JF-AMD you need to make an Biography of your life

http://www.overclock.net/13382944-post957.html hmmm?! I don't know

http://www.overclock.net/13387835-post963.html

http://www.overclock.net/13400763-post977.html

http://www.overclock.net/13414790-post992.html <-- your life sucks, here I am sitting down not getting paid linking your posts lol totally awesome for me but no you have to travel all the time

http://www.overclock.net/13511780-post1043.html

http://www.overclock.net/13525364-post1045.html

http://www.overclock.net/13697096-post1157.html

http://www.overclock.net/13761097-post1257.html

http://www.overclock.net/13793834-post1285.html

http://www.overclock.net/13794528-post1287.html

http://www.overclock.net/13823115-post1313.html <-- you tell em, ES =/= PS

http://www.overclock.net/13825887-post1317.html lol

http://www.overclock.net/13831245-post1325.html

http://www.overclock.net/13852442-post1351.html <-- Not a JF-AMD quote but it does quote JF-AMD 1st version

http://www.overclock.net/13855650-post1357.html

http://www.overclock.net/13902739-post1392.html

http://www.overclock.net/13970433-post1438.html

My posts are so embarrassing lol after this^ lol

http://www.overclock.net/14090326-post1525.html

http://www.overclock.net/14110811-post1541.html <-- JF-AMD 2nd version(more revised)

http://www.overclock.net/14156604-post1585.html

http://www.overclock.net/14161067-post1593.html

http://www.overclock.net/14189031-post1615.html +1 for seronx

------------------------
Notable non JF-AMD Posts that have become true

http://www.overclock.net/13243466-post900.html










http://www.overclock.net/13492354-post1033.html

1.56.4 B2 became 1.57.1

----------------
Notable non JF-AMD posts that are false now

http://www.overclock.net/13687506-post1146.html


----------



## HAF_wit

Wow, you spent some serious time on that post Seronx. I do have to give you big props for being so thorough. Man, this wait is killing me.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14169693*
> JF can u tell us if zambezi IMC will have ECC functionality? It looks like the 8gb unbuffered sticks that are popping up are all ECC capable so would be nice to be able to utilize it.


Phenom supports ECC, ofcourse you need find a board with ECC support.
Many ASUS boards have ECC support. (*ECC unbuffered*)


----------



## Canis-X

WOW!! Agreed, very thorough there Seronx. Nice to see an "underage" person taking such time and patience to do research like this.







Wait until you get older and have a family and a job and see if you still have that kinda time...LOL j/k


----------



## jck

I just want to see real, hard facts about the production version of the new top-of-the-line Bulldozer CPU.

I would like to actually like them to come out ASAP, so that (r)etailers have time to formulate package deals for Christmas, which is when I'd be looking to build a new system.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


WOW!! Agreed, very thorough there Seronx. Nice to see an "underage" person taking such time and patience to do research like this.







Wait until you get older and have a family and a job and see if you still have that kinda time...*LOL j/k*


Don't give him false hope.























Great job on that post ser...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Wow, you spent some serious time on that post Seronx. I do have to give you big props for being so thorough. Man, this wait is killing me.










Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...










Haha, seconded!


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...










Ooh Ooh! Where can I get one?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Wow, you spent some serious time on that post Seronx. I do have to give you big props for being so thorough. Man, this wait is killing me.










Not serious enough it only took 30-50 mins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


Phenom supports ECC, ofcourse you need find a board with ECC support.
Many ASUS boards have ECC support. (*ECC unbuffered*)


I believe every CPU has ECC support and it is totally dependent on the motherboard manufactures

Example: 
890FX had IOMMU in the design
But, Majority of the 890FX didn't have IOMMU

Probably a bad example

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


WOW!! Agreed, very thorough there Seronx. Nice to see an "underage" person taking such time and patience to do research like this.







Wait until you get older and have a family and a job and see if you still have that kinda time...LOL j/k


Underage as in under 21 and above 18

I can run people over but I can't drink or gamble 
Jeez Forbid, I make $100 Billion dollars on gambling








Or, get drunk and fall in a trash can

And, I technically will probably continue to have this much time the time span will just be smaller so I would technically have to output much faster
(Overclocking the Brain)









Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I just want to see real, hard facts about the production version of the new top-of-the-line Bulldozer CPU.

I would like to actually like them to come out ASAP, so that (r)etailers have time to formulate package deals for Christmas, which is when I'd be looking to build a new system.


The only hard fact is that it isn't a Engineer Sample

If real, fake or official Engineer Samples most of the time will not perform like Production Samples

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Don't give him false hope.























Great job on that post ser...


It doesn't matter to me

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...


















Someody









I rather have a FX Shirt over an Opteron Shirt

I don't see myself gaming on an Interlagos CPU 
but I do see myself getting 
4P G34 + 4 PCI-E X16(4x8 electrically)(4x16 Core Interlagos+ 4xNvidia GPUs,(Sorry AMD GPUs suck at price/efficiency I hope Graphics Core Next Fixes this)
Installing Windows 7 Ultimate(Not ever going to pay for Windows Server!)
And getting the new [email protected] Version 7 and getting 800K to 1.2 Million PPD


----------



## JF-AMD

Since the FX guy sits at the end of my row I will see if there is anything cool that he has that I can send you. PM me your address and I will look into it when I am back in Austin.


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Since the FX guy sits at the end of my row I will see if there is anything cool that he has that I can send you. PM me your address and I will look into it when I am back in Austin.


!!!!

REALLY?!

...I can't tell whether or not you're kidding...


----------



## el gappo

Kidding? No. Getting a sudden influx of pm's? Definitely









In other news AMD seem to of caught up on the IMC front, let's see if they've got a cpu to back it up


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

I want a shirt and a cool AMD thing!









But I also want to go back in time and see Led Zeppelin in concert.

Two out of two things I have mentioned are highly unlikely.







+







+







+


----------



## soth7676

Just let me purchase a BD CPU with a couple of 7950s to crossfire with....I will have to settle for newegg geek on t-shirt I ordered

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## reedo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Since the FX guy sits at the end of my row I will see if there is anything cool that he has that I can send you. PM me your address and I will look into it when I am back in Austin.


that level of care in customer service, and the fact that most of my family lives in Austin is why I've been an AMD/ATI man my entire life, thanks for repping the brand Mr. Fruehe.


----------



## Skeese

If only we could all have FX t-shirts...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14205055*
> Since the FX guy sits at the end of my row I will see if there is anything cool that he has that I can send you. PM me your address and I will look into it when I am back in Austin.


Done, hopefully(I can't tell if I sent anything)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14205399*
> Kidding? No. Getting a sudden influx of pm's? Definitely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other news AMD seem to of caught up on the IMC front, let's see if they've got a cpu to back it up


I'm prepped regardless


----------



## xd_1771

Yeah, guys... JF-AMD included.... a reminder: as much as I love artists from the 80s myself, this is the Bulldozer Blog thread..... not the 80s artists thread


----------



## Mit Namso

is the BD demo in Texas still on for saturday?

what did they say they would show, games, benches???


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...











Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Since the FX guy sits at the end of my row I will see if there is anything cool that he has that I can send you. PM me your address and I will look into it when I am back in Austin.


I don't guess I could talk you out of a baseball cap?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


is the BD demo in Texas still on for saturday?

what did they say they would show, games, benches???


AMD [H]ardOCP GamExperience - July 16

Quote:



Mark your calendars for July 16th! AMD and HardOCP are teaming up to deliver the community a GamExperience! Tourneys will be played. Raffles and tons of free stuff will be had. Free-for-all headshots will be made. Winners will be crowned. Losers will be chastised! VIP lounge for Tourney players, plenty of Fusion, Eyefinity, and Big Screen demo stations. And yes, we will give the HardOCP community their first hands-on GamExperience with AMD's next generation AMD FX / Bulldozer hardware. This event will be open to the public in Dallas, Texas. More details coming soon.












Quote:



UPDATE - 06/20/11 - Yes, Bulldozer will be there and you will be able to get hands on!



Quote:



Admission is FREE from 10am to 7pm!


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2616+C...6&z=16&iwloc=A

There you go?

Quote:



Hands on Bulldozer / AMD FX, Deus Ex: HR, Eyefinity, and super large screen 25' displays as well as all kinds of other stuff from our sponsors. Snacks and drinks for attendees and remember it is FREE to attend. This is just AMD and HardOCP giving some back to the community that gives us so much support!


----------



## jck

Hm. I might have to make a drive down there.

Austin TX, you say? I have relatives there.

Edit: Oh...Dallas...have friends and relatives there too.


----------



## JF-AMD

Yes, some of my team mates on the client side will be there. I would not expect to see benchmarks, but they will have live systems from what I understand.


----------



## jck

I might make it down there. Not sure. My best friend might be coming to visit from OK City, so I might have to stay home.

Too bad about the benchmarks probably not being there. I'd like to see a full BD/Fusion package run next to an i7 rig.

Thanks for the info tho, JF.


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes, some of my team mates on the client side will be there. I would not expect to see benchmarks, but they will have live systems from what I understand.


If they do not release any performance information at all there will be a lot of grumpy people.


----------



## JF-AMD

We have always said benchmarks at launch.


----------



## liberato87

is known if there will be a voltage ddr3 limit on the bulldozer fx cpu?
i cant find no information I suppose it would be no limit as with the phenom II.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


is known if there will be a voltage ddr3 limit on the bulldozer fx cpu?
i cant find no information I suppose it would be no limit as with the phenom II.


The Phenom II had a limit, but it was well above what you'd run DDR3 at.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Phenom II had a limit, but it was well above what you'd run DDR3 at.


thank you for the reply. I know that there were a limit I was not thinking to run ram at 2.5v on my thuban LOL

I mean if there will be some ram that would not work on bulldozer (like on sandybridge that there is a limit dont?)

I've old ram with good micron chip that run at 1.8v and I wanted to know if I will able to use that also on bulldozer.

I always red of a 1866mhz support, but no voltage specs.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14224368*
> If they do not release any performance information at all there will be a lot of grumpy people.


And so what? I mean AMD can do what they darn well please, it is a risk they have chosen to take with customers, but I think that most of us here CAN wait just a bit longer, I mean I don't think there will a mob holding torches and pitchforks ready to throw down with AMD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14224643*
> We have always said benchmarks at launch.


Thanks JF.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14224643*
> We have always said benchmarks at launch.


AMD had always said there was no delay until a few days after the denial, they admitted another delay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14229174*
> And so what? I mean AMD can do what they darn well please, it is a risk they have chosen to take with customers, but I think that most of us here CAN wait just a bit longer, I mean I don't think there will a mob holding torches and pitchforks ready to throw down with AMD.


You never know.


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


And so what? I mean AMD can do what they darn well please, it is a risk they have chosen to take with customers, but I think that most of us here CAN wait just a bit longer, I mean I don't think there will a mob holding torches and pitchforks ready to throw down with AMD.
.


What exactly is the point in 'showing it off' if they wont release any information about it? I think that at best it wont matter to potential customers and at worst it will encourage the rumor mills. Better to keep it under wraps until they are ready to show performance.

Just my


----------



## aweir

I know, this is getting annoying. Like a peacock flashing it's feathers but never submitting. Yeah, it's a CPU. WOW . and in 3 years it will be replaced with something better. they are making this seem like it's the panacea of CPUs. Holding off on releasing info won't make it any better of a CPU, it will just prolong the silence before the laughter.

See the forest for the trees...all this artificially created suspense is only increasing demand for a CPU which isn't even available yet, and with guaranteed limited supplies at release...you can guess the rest.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someody needs an opteron t-shirt...










Hey hey , not so fast. Loyal customers first 









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I believe every CPU has ECC support and it is totally dependent on the motherboard manufactures

Example: 
890FX had IOMMU in the design
But, Majority of the 890FX didn't have IOMMU


Most features in Opteron are present in Phenom (are not disabled), difference is number of HTransport links (Phenom needs only 1)
Dies are ~90% same

Quote:



Installing Windows 7 Ultimate(Not ever going to pay for Windows Server!)


 W7 Pro, Ultimate supports to max 2 sockets. 4sockets you must go win server
Or you better go Suse or Fedora


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


thank you for the reply. I know that there were a limit I was not thinking to run ram at 2.5v on my thuban LOL

I mean if there will be some ram that would not work on bulldozer (like on sandybridge that there is a limit dont?)

I've old ram with good micron chip that run at 1.8v and I wanted to know if I will able to use that also on bulldozer.

I always red of a 1866mhz support, but no voltage specs.



While I can't speak for Bulldozer directly, I can certainly confirm the 990FX motherboards certainly won't limit you in the voltage you can pump to your ram.

My Project X's are running happily at 1.8V, and I ran them briefly at 1.85V which is still within daily usage spec's according to Super Talent. While running some benchies. Ofc, this means nothing with respect to Zambezi, and what it will (or will not) tolerate.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


What exactly is the point in 'showing it off' if they wont release any information about it? I think that at best it wont matter to potential customers and at worst it will encourage the rumor mills. Better to keep it under wraps until they are ready to show performance.

Just my










Prolly to prove that the product exists, at minimum, but this is AMD's choice. As far as the rumor mills go, they are started by people/companies that only want to dis-credit AMD or others that want the product so bad that they start getting delusional and saying what THEY want out of the product in THEIR mind. Crazy stuff. You could make all these BD rumors and threads into a TV soap opera, "As the CPU turns". Lol.


----------



## Blackops_2

I expect/hope that BD beats Sandy bridge and can hold it's own against SB-E. Intel has delayed their launch of SB-E from what i read, and i'm sure it's to counter Bulldozer. While i would love to see Bulldozer become another A64, I believe it's more of a step back into the competitive ring, rather than the new performance crown and AMD really needs that IMO.

I'm also hoping bulldozer is good, because i have a sabertooh 990fx on the way. And i don't plan on turning around in 6 months to build a Ivy Bridge build for 1000+


----------



## Blackops_2

Your right. It's hard enough competing with intel as it is, being delayed only makes it worse. Has it been confirmed there release is pushed back to october? Or is that speculation?


----------



## kzone75

According to this page it's still August/September. http://www.amdforum.se/artikel/ofora...ulldozer-1108/
Google-translate if you're not Scandinavian.


----------



## Blackops_2

Good to hear. I'm just ready for benchmarks been waiting for a while for bulldozer. I wish they would allow at least some benchmarks to be shown.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Not going to happen. You won't see benchmarks until release. Why you ask? Because the average joe computer buyer will reconsider their purchase. Deciding that they can hold off for the next 30-60 days to wait for a system that is faster. AMD thereby loses sales of existing inventory on a much more massive scale, than those they may lose of the disgruntled enthusiast market. A market which makes up 5% (or less) of total sales worldwide.

So ask yourself, is it worth losing a rather large portion of your current sales just to appease such a small market base? Simple answer: No, it's not. Especially when you consider that most enthusiasts have money to burn, and will jump on whatever is fastest at the time even if they purchased something else 2 weeks before.

Not to mention, early benchmarks gives the competition a heads up prior to release. Only gives them more time to revise, re-design, or "borrow" ideas, from your new product design before you even get it in the stores to sell. Neither is a position that AMD can afford to be in.

The problem here is most enthusiast level consumers are extremely short sighted business wise, failing to comprehend the big picture.


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14236548*
> Not going to happen. You won't see benchmarks until release. Why you ask? Because the average joe computer buyer will reconsider their purchase. Deciding that they can hold off for the next 30-60 days to wait for a system that is faster. AMD thereby loses sales of existing inventory on a much more massive scale, than those they may lose of the disgruntled enthusiast market. A market which makes up 5% (or less) of total sales worldwide.
> 
> So ask yourself, is it worth losing a rather large portion of your current sales just to appease such a small market base? Simple answer: No, it's not. Especially when you consider that most enthusiasts have money to burn, and will jump on whatever is fastest at the time even if they purchased something else 2 weeks before.
> 
> Not to mention, early benchmarks gives the competition a heads up prior to release. Only gives them more time to revise, re-design, or "borrow" ideas, from your new product design before you even get it in the stores to sell. Neither is a position that AMD can afford to be in.
> 
> The problem here is most enthusiast level consumers are extremely short sighted business wise, failing to comprehend the big picture.


The average Joe has no idea what Bulldozer is nor what the difference is between an i7 and an i5. The average Joe would buy the thing the store suggests. The average Salesperson tries to sell expensive things.

It would take more than a few months to produce a new revision for a competitor, so once again we're back to nothing.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDPhenomX4;14236783*
> The average Joe has no idea what Bulldozer is nor what the difference is between an i7 and an i5. The average Joe would buy the thing the store suggests. The average Salesperson tries to sell expensive things.
> 
> It would take more than a few months to produce a new revision for a competitor, so once again we're back to nothing.


Oh, then why has Intel pushed back both during the last two months, SB-E & IB? Granted Ivy is likely due to production problems with the 3-D transistor tech, but SB-E is most likely a performance revision based on worries caused by the rumor mill about BD.

Performance numbers do make it to more mainstream news sources that average Joe visits/watches/reads when officially released, which makes that argument null & void.


----------



## xd_1771

Enough with the rants guys. They're off topic, do not contribute whatsoever to the spirit of this thread, and should be kept to yourself.

*This is a Bulldozer information and discussion thread. Not the rant about that it isn't released yet and you went elsewhere thread. It will be ready when it is ready.*


----------



## aweir

That's right everybody. Our opinions don't matter. We don't want to crap on anyone's waffle so post it instead in a forum where only registered users can read it. Out of sight out of mind.

Collectively, we are getting frustrated at the delays/secrecy of this CPU, and need to voice our frustrations in a discussion specifically about the CPU. So how is it off-topic?


----------



## xd_1771

See above post (edited). No further comments.


----------



## Mit Namso

This is the 1st release I've been waiting for, does AMD usually say like a week before
"BD will release next Friday..."

how have they done it in the past?


----------



## JF-AMD

no


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


no


Since you talk about Server products

Tell me if I am correct on this or not correct

Valencia = 144bit IMC
Interlagos (Non-MCM) = 288bit IMC
Interlagos (MCM) = 576bit (2x)IMC
------------------------------
Magny-cours (MCM) - 288 bit (2x)IMC

reason why I am asking
In some software optimization guide

144bit -> 288bit -> 576bit IMCs came into question


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Well supposedly they had A BD ES sample at the Hardcop event.
BUT.... It was playing dirt 3 which is a pretty weak game as far as cpu power is needed, and there was absoultly no info given once again. For all we know is it was probably an ES of Phenom. So basically it was an ES (supposed BD but who knows) playing dirt 3 and this was so improtant for what????? ES this late cant be good. Pretty weak showing imo.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623007&page=2

If this thing is pushed back to an october release or later ill be more than alittle dissapointed.
I could have been enjoing SB since last year.......


----------



## raisethe3

Funny how AMD boldly made the stance was Q2 for desktop release date. Even JF said Q2 (although he isn't a desktop guy), but as each day approach closer and closer, I don't see it hapening anymore. Not that I am pointing fingers at anyone or anything, but things happens. I mean, I could be wrong here. What IF Bulldozer does show up in the next two weeks would be surprising. It was rumored to be in August, but it doesn't show up, then there's a lot of trouble.

But as of now, I am still playing the waiting game a bit. Like I mentioned in other thread, I like to get the ASUS Sabretooth so that my 560BE could last a little longer. (Besides I already have an Intel rig, so need for that).


----------



## Mit Namso

at the hardforum would have figured they'd show one bench of something, anything
also, what GPU setup was used with it?

a disappointing tease event


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


at the hardforum would have figured they'd show one bench of something, anything
also, what GPU setup was used with it?

a disappointing tease event


conflicting reports.

one said this,but i'm sure he meant a crosshair V?
Asus Rampage V
a SINGLE 6970 
Unnamed bulldozer 
Corsair h50

and others say the setups were pushing a HD6950

also some say the BD was running 3.4Ghz and another said 3.51Ghz?

so who knows


----------



## tCoLL

Can't wait for the new 8 cores. I do a lot of 3d rendering so unlike a lot of you 3d gamers, I can actually use all 16 threads XD


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tCoLL*


Can't wait for the new 8 cores. I do a lot of 3d rendering so unlike a lot of you 3d gamers, I can actually use all 16 threads XD


8 threads







No Hyper Threading here.


----------



## Blackops_2

I like AMD's definition or response so to speak to hyper threading. Having 8 128-bit fpus that can function as 4 256-bit fpus. It's intriguing.


----------



## linkin93

JF, I have a question about current AMD CPU's. People always say that when overclocking, a high HT frequency can lower performance. This seems backwards to me. Can you prove or disprove it?


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;14246623*
> Funny how AMD boldly made the stance was Q2 for desktop release date. Even JF said Q2 (although he isn't a desktop guy), but as each day approach closer and closer, I don't see it happening anymore.


Well, a Q2 Bulldozer release is impossible unless AMD has a time machine somewhere (in which case, they're seriously holding out on us







).

Q1: Jan-Mar
Q2: Apr-Jun
Q3: Jul-Sept
Q4: Oct-Dec


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;14257695*
> Well, a Q2 Bulldozer release is impossible unless AMD has a time machine somewhere (in which case, they're seriously holding out on us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Q1: Jan-Mar
> Q2: Apr-Jun
> Q3: Jul-Sept
> Q4: Oct-Dec


Technically the Paper Release was in Q2; also, you're talking yearly quarters, not financial.

I hate to say it, but a lot of double talk can be had when stating release time-frames.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14257899*
> Technically the Paper Release was in Q2; also, you're talking yearly quarters, not financial.
> 
> I hate to say it, but a lot of double talk can be had when stating release time-frames.


Assuming this is correct: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=amd, then AMD's fiscal year follows the calendar year.

Did we actually have a Paper Release in Q2? One that has the line-up and specifications (clock rate, etc)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna;14258222*
> Assuming this is correct: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=amd, then AMD's fiscal year follows the calendar year.
> 
> Did we actually have a Paper Release in Q2? One that has the line-up and specifications (clock rate, etc)?


Yeah at Computex.


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14258481*
> Yeah at Computex.


You have a link to the specifications? Because all I know is that they're releasing the following: FX-4110 (4c), FX-6110 (6c), FX-8110 (8c) and FX-8130P (8c). Aside from the model numbers, there's not much else. A paper release should at least include clock rates and specifications.

Fudzilla just posted the specs and some new model numbers. Not sure how accurate they are as there doesn't appear to be official word from AMD yet.
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/23434-more-bulldozer-specs-revealed


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rui-no-onna*


You have a link to the specifications? Because all I know is that they're releasing the following: FX-4110 (4c), FX-6110 (6c), FX-8110 (8c) and FX-8130P (8c). Aside from the model numbers, there's not much else. A paper release should at least include clock rates and specifications.

Fudzilla just posted the specs and some new model numbers. Not sure how accurate they are as there doesn't appear to be official word from AMD yet.
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...specs-revealed










Take those numbers with a heap of salt


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Take those numbers with a heap of salt


Why is EVERYTHING about Bulldozer a rumor?


----------



## rui-no-onna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14260657*
> Why is EVERYTHING about Bulldozer a rumor?


Because so far, AMD has said very little.


----------



## eseb1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14260657*
> Why is EVERYTHING about Bulldozer a rumor?


Nothing is confirmed by AMD.


----------



## radaja

what about this slide?does anyone know if this one is from AMD?


----------



## Mit Namso

in 2 weeks time it will be Aug1, so thats the beginning of the official 60-90 days from computex AMD talk

I don't really expect BD in August, hope I'm wrong


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Note from OCN staff*

*Due to the increase in Bulldozer related threads, and the lack of any hard evidence regarding the performance of said CPU's thus far, please keep all Bulldozer related comments here in this thread. If there are any Bulldozer threads made outside of this thread, they will be removed. If you happen to see one, please hit the report button.

Thank you.*


Updated the OP with this as well.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Updated the OP with this as well.


Let me get this straight. Are you saying that threads such as this one should no longer be created?

If so, great move on the staff's part.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me get this straight. Are you saying that threads such as this one should no longer be created?

If so, great move on the staff's part.


That's in the News and will be put in the Unconfirmed Articles & Rumor's section of the News Subforum.

He's talking about the rumor & speculation threads posted in the AMD Section itself.


----------



## KittensMewMew

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me get this straight. Are you saying that threads such as this one should no longer be created?

If so, great move on the staff's part.


No, I think, News threads (even if in Rumors and Unconfirmed) can still be posted. I believe the rule is there to prevent speculative threads from popping up ie "Will Bulldozer Beat SB-E?" or "What's Bulldozer" in the general forum, because those threads generally spin out of control within an hour. If all the speculation and flaming is here, the mods will have a much easier time cleaning just this thread rather than locking multiple.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew*


No, I think, News threads (even if in Rumors and Unconfirmed) can still be posted. I believe the rule is there to prevent speculative threads from popping up ie "Will Bulldozer Beat SB-E?" or "What's Bulldozer" in the general forum, because those threads generally spin out of control within an hour. If all the speculation and flaming is here, the mods will have a much easier time cleaning just this thread rather than locking multiple.


Exactly.









This is just a preventative effort on our end, to stop all the nonsensical trolling and "fanboy" (airquotes) threads in the AMD sections.

We've had to do this with every major release such as this honestly. Nothing new.


----------



## txtmstrjoe

The whole point is to hopefully stop the spread of inane speculation and rumor regarding Bulldozer and how it would stack up against the competition. When the discussion goes in that direction (as all Bulldozer-related threads tend to do, unfortunately), you'll never get any good discussion going because everything degenerates into a troll-fest and flame war.

I know many of us are impatient, even frustrated, by AMD's official silence on Bulldozer. But that's no reason for any and all Bulldozer-related discussions to be a cause of discord. Then there's the inevitable consequence of rumors being tossed around as if they were facts. That's what makes things so bad: People start sniping at each other over silly rumors and interpretations of speculation.

This new policy of centralizing Bulldozer discussions in this thread is the staff's attempt to hopefully discourage the incidences of trolling and flame-fests. People who have a tendency to do these things have been given fair warning, as has everyone else. There is therefore no reason for any Bulldozer-related discussion to ever degenerate into messes that the staff has to clean up after.

The embargo on centralizing Bulldozer-related discussions will be lifted immediately after the product becomes available, or immediately after REAL information about Bulldozer becomes available. Until then, come to this thread to discuss Bulldozer.

Thank you.


----------



## hazarada

i just want 8 cores already so i can feel better when i look at task manager


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

@txtmstrjoe, why do so many of the specs on your rig have a question mark in place of a part? Is this sorcery or do you already have like the 7xxx series, which is also sorcery?

And is there anything left to talk about regarding Bulldozer/FX? I mean, we don't have any _confirmed_ data or benchmarks and it's not out for at least two more weeks. Ugh. I don't know; maybe my impatience is just showing or something.


----------



## txtmstrjoe

Very OT, but Samurai_Batgirl (surely one of the more interesting usernames I've come across), the reason for all the question marks is that when I was putting this machine together, I wasn't sure yet what parts I would be using. That machine is now in pieces; I just haven't gotten around to updating the sig rig. (I don't have access to new AMD parts, in case you're wondering.







)

As far as whether or not there is anything left to talk about BD/FX, I expect there to be drips and drabs of information to come out as we approach the actual release date.

Honestly, speaking purely for myself here, I have absolutely no feelings of excitement over BD at the moment. Partly because I don't have the money to do a system upgrade, and partly because I don't tend to buy the first iteration of anything new anyway (I always wait until it's a few months down the line at least after release, as these later parts almost always OC better than the first releases anyway), I'm not the least bit bothered by AMD's official silence. I'm prepared to wait (I don't have an alternative anyway).

But that's just me.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

^ Well said. I'm not bothered by the lack of info either. Don't get me wrong, I'm eager to see how my new parts perform with the cpu intended for them. But otherwise, no big deal. The money's not burning a hole in my pocket, and yes, the funds are already set aside for my 8130P.

I can't comprehend why everyone else is sooooo stressed out about it.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


i just want 8 cores already so i can feel better when i look at task manager










Same, I also want the CPU-Z to say
SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AVX lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Bulldozer/FX



Quote:



Originally Posted by *txtmstrjoe*


BD/FX


I believe it goes in this order:

Bulldozer = The Module
Orochi = The CPU
Zambezi = The Tier
FX = The Market

there is three paths

Bulldozer(Core Design) -> Orochi(CPU Design) -> Zambezi(CPU Tier) -> FX for AM3+(CPU Market)

Bulldozer(Core Design) -> Orochi(CPU Design) -> Valencia(CPU Tier) -> Opteron for C32(CPU Market)

Bulldozer(Core Design) -> Orochi(CPU Design) -> Interlagos(CPU Tier) -> Opteron for G34(CPU Market)

I might have digressed since I last argued about this

But, you get the point

Bulldozer =/= FX
Orochi =/= FX
Zambezi = FX

For easy understanding those that understand writing:

Bulldozer = The Foundation
Orochi = The Structure
Zambezi, Valencia, Interlagos = What goes on in that structure
FX, Opteron = What the people in that structure are called

For those picture people:

This is Bulldozer










This is Orochi










And Zambezi, Valencia and Interlagos are what Orochi is tweaked/optimized for

FX and Opteron are names people will identify with

-------------
Zambezi is for Desktop users, they want speed
Valencia and Interlagos is for Server users, they want throughput
FX = Speed
Opteron = Throughput

Speed = How fast can it complete 1 Task
Throughput = How many X Tasks can it run

http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/Docs/readme1st.html#Q15


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Well, I learned something today. Thanks, Seronx.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Well, I learned something today. Thanks, Seronx.










I am here to help









Well, I'll try to help with discussion on "Bulldozer"

I got a couple months of info of the chips in my head

I can't tell you price performance or benchmarks

But, I can speculate on performance not on price and the error rate is only 20%(4 out 5 times I am right, when I speculate)
(unless, the information I am given is wrong then that error rate is 100%, lol)

So, just say yes Seronx we want your Zambezi speculation


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14243957*
> Since you talk about Server products
> 
> Tell me if I am correct on this or not correct
> 
> Valencia = 144bit IMC
> Interlagos (Non-MCM) = 288bit IMC
> Interlagos (MCM) = 576bit (2x)IMC
> 
> Magny-cours (MCM) - 288 bit (2x)IMC
> 
> reason why I am asking
> In some software optimization guide
> 
> 144bit -> 288bit -> 576bit IMCs came into question


No, that is not correct.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14256350*
> JF, I have a question about current AMD CPU's. People always say that when overclocking, a high HT frequency can lower performance. This seems backwards to me. Can you prove or disprove it?


I know nothing about overclocking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14257899*
> Technically the Paper Release was in Q2; also, you're talking yearly quarters, not financial.
> 
> I hate to say it, but a lot of double talk can be had when stating release time-frames.


There has not been any release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14264888*
> 
> I believe it goes in this order:
> 
> Bulldozer = The Module
> Orochi = The CPU
> Zambezi = The Tier
> FX = The Market


No

Bulldozer is the core architecture code name
orochi is the die code name
zambezi, valencia and interlagos are the product code names
opteron and FX are the public product names


----------



## ismet

haha what's with the silly names they give processors?


----------



## JF-AMD

beauty is in the eye of the beholder


----------



## Mit Namso

another site saying Oct. for BD when talking about ASrock 990 MB on July 15

http://news.softpedia.com/news/ASRoc...U-211740.shtml

Quote:



Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the release date or the pricing of this board. AMD's FX-Series processors are allegedly expected to arrive in October of this year.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


@JF-AMD how do you know nothing about overclocking? I would've thought that those that worked for CPU manufacturers would at least be somewhat knowledgeable in that regard.

Is it that it just doesn't interest you being a server guy and all?

Do you know why AMD doesn't have a client rep on this site? Considering we're on OVERCLOCK.net.


I only deal with server. My client systems are more likely underclocked for lower noise than overclocked. I don't game.

There is no client guy but I do this on my own, it is not a company sponsored thing. They apparently have better social lives.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I only deal with server. My client systems are more likely underclocked for lower noise than overclocked. I don't game.

There is no client guy but I do this on my own, it is not a company sponsored thing. They apparently have better social lives.


In that case, thank you for dedicating your time and doing your best to answer our questions.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


beauty is in the eye of the beholder


...and internal code names are made for misdirection & confusion. I wonder if corporate spying is still a major problem with technical industries as it used to be









Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


In that case, thank you for dedicating your time and doing your best to answer our questions.


This, most definitely. Many thanks JF.


----------



## FarbrorAbavna

Seems like bulldozer isnt delayed till october.

Source: http://www.amdforum.se/artikel/ofora...ulldozer-1108/

Google translate: http://translate.google.se/translate?js=...

Basically the site "Amd Forum" has gotten a direct confirmation from AMD that their schedule has not changed.

Seeing how google translate doesnt do the best job I'll give it a try myself. I'll do a translation paragraph by paragraph.

"Reportedly to AMD Forum the launch of Bulldozer will not be postponed despite alleged rumors. "Our Bulldozer schedule has not changed""

"It was earlier this week that turkish website Donanimhaber published rumors on the launch of Bulldozer being postponed to october. AMD can confirm though to AMD Forum that the launch date is unchanged for Bulldozer and thereby august/september is still on."

picture in the article of timeline for chipset, motherboards and zambezi cpus

"AMD annoucned during Computex at the start of june that the first Bulldozer processors codenamed Zambezi would launch within 60-90 days."

So yeah, Bulldozer coming in august or september. Good stuff. I also did a search for this but couldnt find anything but rumors or what not so hopefully this isnt a repost









I also trust AMD Forum more than most sites since they've never published anything on all the rumors going around but only when facts or more or less confirmed information has surfaced. But I've only been visiting the site for roughly a year so I'm no expert but it's my take on this.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I don't really think that confirms anything either way since AMD confirmed no delay the last time there was a delay.

I'm not going anywhere though, I just hope the wait is worth it.


----------



## FarbrorAbavna

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't really think that confirms anything either way since AMD confirmed no delay the last time there was a delay.

I'm not going anywhere though, I just hope the wait is worth it.


haha well that's a good point, had forgotten they said that. Oh well.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


Yes let's here it.

Thread getting derailed due the pronunciation of aluminum lol.


No comparison to Intel's product line

Phenom II maxes out 3000 Seronx points on single thread
FX maxes out 4000 Seronx points on single thread

Unknown but equal clocks

But there are other factors that affect the score

A 3.7GHz Phenom II X4 gets 4300 Seronx Points for example
But lets do something terrible...
4300 minus 3000 = 1300
FX @ 3.7GHz if the stuff was the same it would get 5300 Seronx Points
But, that is wrong the things that have an effect on FX and Phenom II scores are out of scope from each other(meaning it won't be 5300 pts)

My speculation is that FX single thread performance HAS increased and it would be in this range (5000-6500 Seronx points) @ stock settings(unknown clocks)

CMT multithreaded performance should be similar to CMP multithreading
Meaning really easy to calculate

Single Threaded Performance x Cores = Max Points x Scaling Factor = Multithreaded Performance


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Current gen AM3 PHII X4/X6 already competes with 1156 core i3/i5/i7.


Woops! I meant Gulftown.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How do you get ew though?

al-ew-min-ee-əm - EU

ə-loo-mi-nəm - US


you forgot:

Aussie: al-yoo-min-ee-um

btw, love your avatar


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I only deal with server. My client systems are more likely underclocked for lower noise than overclocked. I don't game.

*There is no client guy but I do this on my own, it is not a company sponsored thing. They apparently have better social lives*.


Um...I remember some post about you being on the mediterranean a while back sipping a drink?

I'd like your social life
















Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


In that case, thank you for dedicating your time and doing your best to answer our questions.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop*


This, most definitely. Many thanks JF.










Ditto. I very much appreciate you trying to give some insight here as to what's real and what's not, and doing it of your own choice and not as part of the requirements of your job duties.


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


There is no client guy but I do this on my own, it is not a company sponsored thing. They apparently have better social lives.


That just means you need to do some more XC biking. Maybe take a vacation to Canada and try out some of the XC tails in/around Whistler. Or if your really daring, try some DH biking down Blackcomb.


----------



## Mit Namso

whats some emails or phone #s of AMD people that know something about BD release date


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


Ditto. I very much appreciate you trying to give some insight here as to what's real and what's not, and doing it of your own choice and not as part of the requirements of your job duties.


at this point we know more about his personal life then bulldozer.. i'm just saying


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


whats some emails or phone #s of AMD people that know something about BD release date


1-800-UNDERNDA

No one at AMD is going to give or share the release date of BD. Aug / Sept is AMD's stance at this point.

Our best shot thus far at getting any real data was at Computex, and most recently HardOCP's event, neither one panned out for us. The waiting game continues.

Actually, BD should be released by the end of August according to what they said @ Computex on June 1.

June 1 - June 30 = 30 Days
July 1 - July 31 = 60 Days
August 1 - August 30 = 90 Days


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*












Actually, that isn't the launch or release that is the availability of the Zambezi PIBs

60-90 days from June 1st

within July 31st - August 31st

Consumers, should be able to pick up Zambezi PIBs

June 1st was the launch of the 990FX and availability of the motherboards was 0-30 days

July 31st-August 1st then has to be the launch(and release) for AM3+ CPUs

If the pattern continues


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


July 31st-August 1st then has to be the launch(and release) for AM3+ CPUs

If the pattern continues


If the pattern continues, BD will be delayed yet again.









August 1 is only 11 days away, so we'll see.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


If the pattern continues, BD will be delayed yet again.









August 1 is only 11 days away, so we'll see.


Zambezi was never delayed


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Zambezi was never delayed












Quote:



Originally Posted by *JFAMD*

Product schedules are exactly the the same this week as they were last week, and the week before that and so on.

*Desktop launches in Q2*
Server production is in Q2
Server launches in Q3

Everything else is just rumors.


Q1 = Jan - March
Q2 = April - June Since June has now come and gone, Zambezi is in fact LATE. 
Q3 = July - Sept

The delay was confirmed at Computex on June 1st by AMD.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...Bulldozer.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...rocessors.html

Maybe you can ask JF-AMD to link you to his blog post where he said Bulldozer would be launched Q2?

I can't find the link right now.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


The delay was confirmed at Computex on June 1st by AMD.

Maybe you can ask JF-AMD to link you to his blog post where he said Bulldozer would be launched Q2?


JF-AMD doesn't do client

And he never said Q2 for Server Products

and again Zambezi wasn't delayed and is not late


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


JF-AMD doesn't do client

And he never said Q2 for Server Products

and again Zambezi wasn't delayed


LOL ok, it wasn't delayed. I believe you.







You've already proven to know so much, oh wait, JF-AMD disproved your theories already.

He never said Q2 for server products, if you read closely it says Q2 server *PRODUCTION *begins, and server launches in Q3.

This was an OFFICIAL word from AMD.

Quote:



*Product Schedules* - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/11/09...l-analyst-day/

These guys must be living in a dream world writing about Bulldozer delays.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...september.html

You can believe what ever you want to believe, here's when the delay rumors started surfacing since AMD stance was that Q2 was the release. 
http://wccftech.com/amd-denies-bulld...ublic-roadmap/

You're right though, Zambezi is not delayed. LOL.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


at this point we know more about his personal life then bulldozer.. i'm just saying


Well considering JF-AMD is a server-CPU products person, I would say it's rather a) intelligent of him to, in any way, act as though he is a subject expert on consumer-class CPUs since it's not his field and not his assigned post at AMD, and b) nice of him to take his personal time (whether sipping drinks or not, in the med or back in TX) to inform us of things that he does hear that he is allowed to speak about informally with us.

I'd like to know more too, but having someone in his position take the time to comment on what he knows outside of his scope of work is gracious and kind of him.

I thank him for it, because I am appreciative of anything he can pass along.

Just saying...


----------



## jck

BTW, 2010rig...are they talking Q2 2011? or Q2 FY 2011-2012?

If they're going by Fiscal Year, it might be different. Sometimes, corporations report on a FY Quarter rather than calendar quarter.


----------



## 2010rig

OOOPS double post.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


BTW, 2010rig...are they talking Q2 2011? or Q2 FY 2011-2012?

If they're going by Fiscal Year, it might be different. Sometimes, corporations report on a FY Quarter rather than calendar quarter.


If they said it was Q2 Fiscal then it would be different, but you can see in the blog post, and everything else reported. Throughout this year we were under the impression that Zambezi was expected to be released in June, until AMD confirmed its delay by 60 - 90 days at Computex on June 1st. JF-AMD even spelled it out over and over again, you can even tell in some of his posts that he got tired of repeating himself.

Perhaps we can get clarification from JF-AMD on what was meant by this? Nothing about Q2 Fiscal year has ever been mentioned.

Quote:



*Product Schedules* - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


Seronx is not as up to date as he thinks he is, and Zambezi is in fact delayed. I thought this was common knowledge around here now.


----------



## radaja

AMD's facebook page just made an announcement

Quote:



Report: FX is on the Move. Stay tuned for the launch of "Operation Scorpius: The Legend of FX" comic book this Thursday! We're offering free wallpapers, the comic book of course and a chance to win an AMD FX 8-core desktop processor. You won't want to miss this!


----------



## nub

Read an unusual post on amdzone about 'scorpius legend of fx' comic book (of all things)







expected tomorrow on amd face book page.


----------



## radaja

its posted there already,i put it in quotes above
but heres a SS of the facebook page


----------



## Nocturin

That sound be an interesting read.

Are comic books replacing brochures now?

Awesome.


----------



## Mit Namso

I hope a BD can fix my minimum FPS in games like GTA4, cyrsisWH, F1 2010, if it can, then I will finally play through those games

EDIT:
Quote:


> AMD's facebook page just made an announcement
> 
> Quote:
> Report: FX is on the Move. Stay tuned for the launch of "Operation Scorpius: The Legend of FX" comic book this Thursday! We're offering free wallpapers, the comic book of course and a chance to win an AMD FX 8-core desktop processor. You won't want to miss this!


do they give any closing date for that contest, do they mean will one on launch day?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14287883*
> Since when is the truth a negative wave?


While I agree that some people are too sensitive, there is a way to say the truth without being rude.

You can tell someone they're an prick, or you can say they could be nicer or more respectful. If you do the former, you're being just as much of an prick as the original.

Also, I thought all of the June release date and such was just speculation because Computex was around the corner. I thought that 60-90 day announcement was the official statement on release.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14285802*
> its posted there already,i put it in quotes above
> but heres a SS of the facebook page


Hmm... seems like we are getting closer to launch.

Given that they are starting with public fanfare (the [H] event and now this comic) it seems more likely that the chip will appear in August rather than October.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14288019*
> Hmm... seems like we are getting closer to launch.
> 
> Given that they are starting with public fanfare (the [H] event and now this comic) it seems more likely that the chip will appear in August rather than October.


+1 I hope your right


----------



## Usario

Intel should be concerned. Very concerned. Can't wait to see what happens in the upcoming days!

Oh also, no one else mentioned it, but what on earth do you think the comic book will be about?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14288869*
> obviously the hero FX in a green cape defeating the evil K in blue by having twice as many fists to punch him with


FX vs EE(just X now)

FX = Black and Red

EE = Black and Blue

Had a fist fight


----------



## Mit Namso

I suspect BD will be delayed to go from 32nm to 28nm, expecting it be ready around next spring


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


I suspect BD will be delayed to go from 32nm to 28nm, expecting it be ready around next spring


I expect Bulldozer to stay 32nm until 2013, *maybe* in 2012 Enhanced Bulldozer will switch to 22nm. Based on what GloFo has been saying recently they'll probably have 14nm 3D transistors ready by the time Next Generation Bulldozer is ready (2013).


----------



## FarbrorAbavna

cant wait for that fx comic book









I get pictures in my head of a bulldozer cpu wielding weapons and kicking ass. Though from the guess of that pic released on AMDs facebook page it's the gfx mascot(woman) in the bottom middle and then 8 other heroes(representing the core count on the top model?) making up the scorpius platform...which is sort of a bummer after the epic cpu-action I got first


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Even Wikipedia has a listing, see under A










I lolol.


----------



## hazarada

bulldozer could be the next duke nukem forever - late and ultimately disappointing


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


I suspect BD will be delayed to go from 32nm to 28nm, expecting it be ready around next spring


No


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No


I didn't really think that

I hope BD is right around the corner in August


----------



## radaja

From AMD's Comic,maybe a hidden release date?










and possible clockspeed?3600Mhz?


----------



## krabs

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-rules.aspx

Quote:



7. Prizes:

Top tier prizes: Five (5) AMD FX series eight-core processors. *Approximate Retail Value: $300 USD each.*

Second tier prizes: One hundred (100) collectible Ruby dolls. Approximate Value: $25 USD each.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *krabs*


http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-rules.aspx


so AMD is saying ~$300 for FX-8xxx

well thats good for my budget, once benches are out I will consider something thats about $300 with tax/sh included, so maybe a FX-6xxx

hope its not september 19th as above posted hints, and surely its not Nov or Dec


----------



## 45nm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


so AMD is saying ~$300 for FX-8xxx

well thats good for my budget, once benches are out I will consider something thats about $300 with tax/sh included, so maybe a FX-6xxx

hope its not september 19th as above posted hints, and surely its not Nov or Dec


Perhaps this is Hinting at a September release date:

Quote:



4. Entry Period: The Contest begins July 21, 2011 at 12:01am Eastern Time ("EDT") and ends September 6, 2011 at 11:59 pm EDT (the "Entry Period"). Entries that are submitted before or after the Entry Period will be disqualified. Sponsor's computer will be the official timekeeping device for the Contest.



Quote:



6. Winner Selection: Sponsor will select one hundred five (105) potential winners at random on or about September 9, 2011 ("Drawing Date") from all eligible entries received during the Entry Period. Winner does not need to be present at the drawing to win. Limit one prize per entrant regardless of the number of entries submitted. The first five potential winners selected are eligible for a top tier prize. The subsequent 100 potential winners selected are eligible for a second tier prize. If multiple entries from one entrant are selected in the random drawing, all but the first of such entries will be ineligible and alternate potential winners will be selected at random.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


I suspect BD will be delayed to go from 32nm to *22nm*, expecting it be ready around next spring


Fixed.

28nm = GPU Process
22nm = CPU Process

Bulldozer 1st Gen(2011)=32nm.
Bulldozer Enhanced (2012)=32nm.
Bulldozer 2nd Gen(2013)=22nm.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

At least the contest rules debunk some of that garbage that a certain Czech blogger has been putting out. Namely he had stated a price tag of $350-400. It's a bit of a relief at the moment that the contest rules are implicitly stating $300.


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14296735*
> At least the contest rules debunk some of that garbage that a certain Czech blogger has been putting out. Namely he had stated a price tag of $350-400. It's a bit of a relief at the moment that the contest rules are implicitly stating $300.


wasn't that the price he was auctioning a BD engineering sample for


----------



## subliminal aura

man im going to be nark'd off if i buy the 1st phase of bd (fx 8150), cos i cant wait & then the enhanced version comes out which will be an apu. though i've got a tight budget, so i'm not sure if i can afford one


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14297176*
> wasn't that the price he was auctioning a BD engineering sample for


Yep, it wasn't the retail price he was referring to.

The only negative I see is AMD's stock from the moment they announced BD's delay.

Hope they can get Bulldozer launched sooner than later, 'cuz Intel keeps reporting Record breaking profits.


----------



## FarbrorAbavna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14294521*
> From AMD's Comic,maybe a hidden release date?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and possible clockspeed?3600Mhz?


ember 19th...oct..ember 19th....octember 19th....october 19th. God damnit. Must be a spelling error in there and the release date is the 19th of october.









Seriously though, seems like september 19th(if this image is anything to go by) is something to look out for perhaps. Cant imagine it would be november or december, PLS DONT BE ONE OF THOSE


----------



## hazarada

i was reading the giveaway rules and while i think its fail to be restricted to us/canada only i saw
Quote:


> Potential winner(s) from Canada may be required to correctly answer a mathematical skills-testing question without any assistance in order to be eligible to receive a prize.


like wth is that about? rofl. Are they going to ask all canadian winners to divide the square root of -1 by infinity to avoid giving them prizes?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14297847*
> i was reading the giveaway rules and while i think its fail to be restricted to us/canada only i saw
> 
> like wth is that about? rofl. Are they going to ask all canadian winners to divide the square root of -1 by infinity to avoid giving them prizes?


Nvidia is alot worse

They require Canadians to solve the answer of the universe and show the formula on paper with a 2HB pencil

and in the video

The screen says AMD unprocessed live feed after
FX OC XS!!!

So, we might get to see how high it overclocks live?(Better watch the twitter and hold breath)


----------



## jck

Don't whine. Anyone who is anyone knows the answer.

42

God bless Douglas Adams... R.I.P.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14297598*
> Yep, it wasn't the retail price he was referring to.
> 
> The only negative I see is AMD's stock from the moment they announced BD's delay.
> 
> Hope they can get Bulldozer launched sooner than later, 'cuz Intel keeps reporting Record breaking profits.


This is a AMD Bulldozer thread, not AMD vs Intel stock prices.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14298697*
> This is a AMD Bulldozer thread, not AMD vs Intel stock prices.












Nvidia stock also went down

Because of the announcement of Zambezi products in June 1st that will be available in August

I guess Nvidia based on this info is the ones actually making Zambezi










Ya, this is an AMD "Bulldozer" thread not a compare stock thread

August September and or October, I voted for August


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14297847*
> i was reading the giveaway rules and while i think its fail to be restricted to us/canada only i saw
> 
> like wth is that about? rofl. Are they going to ask all canadian winners to divide the square root of -1 by infinity to avoid giving them prizes?


Blame Canada actually. Their law states that they cannot win a contest by chance alone, and must involve some "skill". Take from that what you will.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14297176*
> wasn't that the price he was auctioning a BD engineering sample for


I apologize, I only skimmed the news article & didn't take note of the 81(5)0P instead of 8130P in the article. I kind of quit reading at OBR.

But, according to WCCF & ofc, we know how reliable their sources are (source for the article was OBR). Which btw, was posted and deleted from the OCN news section last night.

http://wccftech.com/amd-fx8150-engineering-sample-detailed/

Along with the comment at the end of the article: "Hopefully, These won't be faked like his last review posted at Donanimhaber of the FX-8130P. So ready yourselves for some bulldozer epicness this week from OBR."

-Hassan Mujtaba

^ Which I got a laugh out of. How anyone can take that source as creditable after the things he just pulled. Idk.


----------



## JCPUser

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/22/amd_q2_2011_numbers/

Some information here. I quoted the key part below. Seems like we can expect them to ship next month. To keep their Computex promise... it seems likely that some sort of launch (maybe limited) will happen in August.
Quote:


> Still later in the call, when it was clear that Wall Street needed something to get excited about, *AMD let slip that the Opteron 6200s would launch next month and that their desktop companion, the FX Series, code-named "Zambezi", would come out next month, as well.* After clarification from AMD's press relations people, El Reg discovered that AMD's top brass meant to say that these two chips would ship for revenue next month, but it is still not clear when they will be formally announced.


----------



## Blackops_2

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...n-2q-2011.aspx

Quote:



With AMD shipping Bulldozer based processors in August,


[email protected] i want mine now!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07..._2011_numbers/

Quote:



He added that the chip would offer about a 35 per cent performance boost compared to the current 12-core Opteron 6100s.


Well we're now @ 35% increase over their current production processors rather than the 50% they said earlier??


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


Well we're now @ 35% increase over their current production processors rather than the 50% they said earlier??


I think he's talking about the server CPU's when he says that.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Didn't they say that an 8 core BD would be 50 percent faster than a 12 core CPU?
I could be wrong.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I think he's talking about the server CPU's when he says that.










Yeah a 16 core server BD against a 12core opteron, 33.3% more cores, 8 core client BD against a 6 core Phenom II, 33.3% more cores.

What's your point?

When AMD said 50% more though put in 2010 they were always talking about server models, the point he's making is that now it's 35%.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14304137*
> Didn't they say that an 8 core BD would be 50 percent faster than a 12 core CPU?
> I could be wrong.


You would be wrong, see the post below yours.


----------



## jck

Balla:

Have I said how much I like your avatar?









I will be happy once bulldozer/FX is on the market.


----------



## Blackops_2

What they had originally said was 8 core BD is 50% performance over existing quad core phenoms II. So 35% increase in performance from a 12core/system opty to a 8 module/16core BD might be correct. Although the difference in cores between the two comparisons is still 4. Might be confusing myself.

As far as it being a server cpu performance should be about the same as the desktop. I started off with an Opty 1210 as my first build and saw no difference in it at 3.0 or my athlon 5800.


----------



## Seronx

I would recommend you guys wait for Reviews

Before, you guys go on the percentage roll again


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14307780*
> What they had originally said was 8 core BD is 50% performance over existing quad core phenoms II. So 35% increase in performance from a 12core/system opty to a 8 module/16core BD might be correct. Although the difference in cores between the two comparisons is still 4. Might be confusing myself.
> 
> As far as it being a server cpu performance should be about the same as the desktop. I started off with an Opty 1210 as my first build and saw no difference in it at 3.0 or my athlon 5800.


No, it was 50% more throughput for Interlagos vs Magny Cours. A Phenom II X8 would be roughly 40-45% faster than an X4, so if that was the estimate the IPC increase would be pretty minimal.


----------



## Blackops_2

To be honest I'm tired of waiting and if I didn't have a 990fx board I would be gearing up for SB-E or ivy bridge. That being said I do have a 990fx and I will be getting one of the fx products. It would be different if I something to go on to guarantee good performance out of this product, but I don't. And they say patience is a virtue


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14308253*
> No, it was 50% more throughput for Interlagos vs Magny Cours. A Phenom II X8 would be roughly 40-45% faster than an X4, so if that was the estimate the IPC increase would be pretty minimal.


Ah I guess I misunderstood, thanks for clearing that up. In that case according to their original statement a 16 core BD should be more than 35% performance increase right?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14308272*
> To be honest I'm tired of waiting and if I didn't have a 990fx board I would be gearing up for SB-E or ivy bridge. That being said I do have a 990fx and I will be getting one of the fx products. It would be different if I something to go on to guarantee good performance out of this product, but I don't. And they say patience is a virtue


Well, your time of reckoning is almost upon us

Look towards August beyond the gates of cheezy campy marketing ads

FX performance does not follow server performance(FX will clock higher than the servers)

Server = Throughput

Desktop = Speed

I also can shed some light on the matter:

50% More Throughput with 16 cores vs 12 cores

35% More Speed with 1 BD Core vs 1 MC Core

1 MC Core scores 1pt
then
1 BD Core scores 1.35pts

1 MC CPU can times that one pt by 12 cores
1 BD CPU can times that 1.35 pts by 16 cores

More Throughput(More cores = More Tasks) and More Speed(More IPC/Clocks/Other things = Faster finishing of tasks)
(Theoretical speed is obtained you have to wait for the benchmarks to see how it goes)


----------



## Blackops_2

I see, I just had misunderstood what I had initially read. 35% increase from 1 MC core to 1 BD core doesn't sound to bad at all.


----------



## jck

I still can't wait.

I'm impatient too.

I just bought 8GB of gaming DDR3-1600 for $40, and I'm getting security software for $0. Prepping for my next build.


----------



## jck

Oh, I'm just shopping for parts here and there. Hoping to only spend about $400-500 on the whole setup, less the CPU and SSD and Velociraptor and motherboard. Those things will be my main cost.


----------



## Roedi

An Update from Obrovsky's blog:


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


An Update from Obrovsky's blog:


So, it's faster than an 1100T and slower than a 2500K @ 3.3 with twice the # of cores and clocked @ 3.6. Doesn't look good for BD if these are to be believed.

I'm guessing this is still a B0 chip?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm guessing this is still a B0 chip?


well remember he really cant be trusted,but he says this about stepping,which i take to be B3(CO) which should be retail stepping but his is still an ES

Quote:



Next info is more interesting. My traditional pre-launch hardware source, sent me really great box. Directly from Germany, final silicon in "August" FX Sample chip. Is it retail FX-8150? You will see soon!

PS. August ES samples are Retail stepping, i suppose


----------



## Mit Namso

a retail FX-8 might be a beast in some things, but 8 cores won't help the gamers much


----------



## Blackops_2

While 8 cores wont help current games can't the CPU function as 4 256-bit FPUs when needed? Which would theoretically still make it much faster than current phenom tech? Might be misunderstanding it.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


While 8 cores wont help current games



The 8 cores will help in future games particularly games that will use 8 cores or show affinity to 8 threads

Skyrim, Rage, Battlefield 3 and other games will have affinity for 8 threads

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


can't the CPU function as 4 256-bit FPUs when needed?


The main function though for the FPUs is to operate as 128bit FPUs(8 FPUs) and fuse to do 256bit AVX(8->4 FPUs) when needed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


Which would theoretically still make it much faster than current phenom tech?


Bigger bit widths aren't always faster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


So, it's faster than an 1100T and slower than a 2500K @ 3.3 with twice the # of cores and clocked @ 3.6. Doesn't look good for BD if these are to be believed.

I'm guessing this is still a B0 chip?


It's a B1 that is overclocked


----------



## hazarada

why would anybody believe anything that comes out of OBR? lol


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


An Update from Obrovsky's blog:


OBR is a troll

stop posting his garbage


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


OBR is a troll

stop posting his garbage


You would think that people would have learned this by now.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


You would think that people would have learned this by now.










Go with the flow just say the Engineer Sample is throttling
They throttle at 45-55*C and overclocking doesn't help










OOOHHHH, Interlagos SERVERS from gateway <3

http://configurator.gateway.com/conf...n/skus/ar385f1

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

OH! a interlagos CPU for sale 2.1GHz x 16 cores for $849.02


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Go with the flow just say the Engineer Sample is throttling
They throttle at 45-55*C and overclocking doesn't help










OOOHHHH, Interlagos SERVERS from gateway <3

http://configurator.gateway.com/conf...n/skus/ar385f1

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

OH! a interlagos CPU for sale 2.1GHz x 16 cores for $894


good find







I am thinking about getting a single socket or dual socket g34 board instead of waiting for zambezi.... 1 or 2 16 core opterons at 2.1ghz would probably earn very nice ppd.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Go with the flow just say the Engineer Sample is throttling
They throttle at 45-55*C and overclocking doesn't help










OOOHHHH, Interlagos SERVERS from gateway <3

http://configurator.gateway.com/conf...n/skus/ar385f1

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

OH! a interlagos CPU for sale 2.1GHz x 16 cores for $849.02



Do we know if those are bulldozer based?


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Do we know if those are bulldozer based?


Interlagos will be the first 16 core Opterons. So I'd expect that these are bulldozer based. Note that the 8 core opteron 6220 is listed at 3.0ghz.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Do we know if those are bulldozer based?











They are Bulldozer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Interlagos will be the first 16 core Opterons.


And the first 8 core native ones as well


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*










They are Bulldozer

And the first 8 core native ones as well


That 3.0ghz 8 core is looking mighty tasty..... Cheaper than the 16 core too. Might go with Valencia instead....


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*












Nice!









Just odd considering the product is under NDA. Hmm, wonder if we are closer than we think...


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Nice!









Just odd considering the product is under NDA. Hmm, wonder if we are closer than we think...


we might be









at least to an nda lift


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


we might be









at least to an nda lift


Single socket supermicro g34 board at newegg for only 234.99....


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Single socket supermicro g34 board at newegg for only 234.99....










id go dual socket for a server build or even 4 ... not one

and no overclocking of server mobo's


----------



## nub

I wonder if JF-AMD will be displeased when he sees that info posted on gateway's website....


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


I wonder if JF-AMD will be displeased when he sees that info posted on gateway's website....











why would he???

no benchmarks posted .... just some product listing ...

ok they do list the clock speed of the products ... this might make his job hard or not ... but ill take a guess and say we are closer to the lift of the nda then we think


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


why would he???

no benchmarks posted .... just some product listing ...

ok they do list the clock speed of the products ... this might make his job hard or not ... but ill take a guess and say we are closer to the lift of the nda then we think


Plus on the BLT Catalog site it is for sale (albeit not in stock







)

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=324693480


----------



## Fr0sty

would like to get JF-AMD's feedback on those if he can


----------



## nub

Would be nice if some / any info on Valencia either leaked or was officially released.


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

sry but in those 2 links at the first post didn't answer my question.

Would it be more accessible than i7 sandy bridge series?

Would it perform better than i7 in games? cuz phenom 2 series it's really bad at gamming performance for those games that wants a demmanding cpu..


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


sry but in those 2 links at the first post didn't answer my question.

Would it be more accessible than i7 sandy bridge series?

Would it perform better than i7 in games? cuz phenom 2 series it's really bad at gamming performance for those games that wants a demmanding cpu..


1) Not sure what you mean by "accessible". If you explain in more detail I might be able to help.

2) As for detailed performance numbers (in games or otherwise) you will have to wait till the product launches.

3) The last official word we have on launch is August.


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

accessible: just thinking about the price, compared to the sandy bridge i7 the top intel processors


----------



## Blackops_2

What games need a demanding CPU? Most games now a days are extremely GPU dependent. Considering I7 doesn't show that much improvement over Core 2 in games, and phenom II is 5-8% slower than Core 2, i would say the phenom II is more than adequate for gaming. I7 does help with scaling in multi Gpu setups.


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

starcraft 2 between others


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*


accessible: just thinking about the price, compared to the sandy bridge i7 the top intel processors


Estimated price for a 8 core (dunno which) is $300. That is from AMD's FX giveaway information.

Expect the price for each thread to be similar between SB and BD. That is... a 4C/8T SB about the same price as the 8 core BD and the 4C/4T SB about the same price as the 4C BD (give or take $20-$30).


----------



## xd_1771

A reminder: This is Bulldozer next-generation processor discussion, not bottleneck-with-current-processor discussion. Stay on topic please.


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Why I want to think it in this way I'm building my rig and I know that AMD its a lot cheaper than intel, but between p2 and sb it's clearly a good difference in performance cuz of the improvements and the efficienty with SB, so.. BD it's almost out, it will be better and cheaper, or maybe same performance as the actual SB, well that will make it worth for AMD rig, if not just get a i7 and end of the discussion.

BD aims to a special nich? I dunno, server, gamming, office? which of them?

EDIT: last quoute about it


----------



## JCPUser

Dunno what to tell you other than there are not enough specifics known about BD at this moment to decide between the platforms. So I will say this...

-- If you need a rig now and can't wait another 1 or 2 months to do a proper comparison between SB and BD (via third party reviews) then go Intel. I don't think you can go wrong with Sandy.

-- If your rig is basically fine and you are just looking to upgrade then just wait to see what AMD brings to the table.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Interlagos will be the first 16 core Opterons. So I'd expect that these are bulldozer based. Note that the 8 core opteron 6220 is listed at 3.0ghz.










3.0 for a server CPU? Nice! 
Is the 8 core 6220 similar to the desktop version?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14335920*
> 3.0 for a server CPU? Nice!
> Is the 8 core 6220 similar to the desktop version?


Don't forget guys these server products have turbo cores

Opteron 6272
2.1GHz Stock
2.6GHz Turbo Core for all cores
Opteron 6276
2.3GHz Stock
2.8GHz Turbo Core for all cores
Opteron 6220
3.0GHz Stock
3.5GHz Turbo Core for all cores(Maybe 4.0GHz? Depends on the TDP)

All of it Possible

Names for 3rd Gen Bulldozer and 4th Gen Bulldozer for AMD Marketing
I'll start off with what is probably known
Bulldozer -> Piledriver ->(Seronx starts here) Roadheader -> Auger
Well, I have 16 "Bulldozer" Cores
Well, I have 20 "Piledriver" Cores
Well, I have 32 "Roadheader" Cores
Well, I have 40 "Auger" Cores


----------



## JF-AMD

Your data is not correct.


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14338638*
> Your data is not correct.


Just the data for turbo or all the data?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14335100*
> would like to get JF-AMD's feedback on those if he can


Link has been fixed. Move along folks, nothing to see here.


----------



## csm725

Curiously, is the data listed on Wikipedia regarding TDP and Turbo correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_FX_microprocessors


----------



## kapulek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14336621*
> Don't forget guys these server products have
> Names for 3rd Gen Bulldozer and 4th Gen Bulldozer for AMD Marketing
> I'll start off with what is probably known
> Bulldozer -> Piledriver ->(Seronx starts here) Roadheader -> Auger
> Well, I have 16 "Bulldozer" Cores
> Well, I have 20 "Piledriver" Cores
> Well, I have 32 "Roadheader" Cores
> Well, I have 40 "Auger" Cores


It should be Bulldozer -> Piledriver -> Steamroller -> (Seronx starts here)


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14338718*
> Link has been fixed. Move along folks, nothing to see here.











"these are not the droids you are looking for...."


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14338760*
> Curiously, is the data listed on Wikipedia regarding TDP and Turbo correct?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_FX_microprocessors


I don't answer client product questions


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14338638*
> Your data is not correct.


Whats this then?


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14339739*
> Whats this then?


He didn't answer any questions...just made a statement regarding some incorrect information in case some people would actually believe it.


----------



## ismet

Someone in the world has to have their hands on a a few BD chips. Report to us!


----------



## pale_neon

so what's the latest projected date i can start dozing bulls?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14339714*
> I don't answer client product questions


Are you able to dedicate modules to certain tasks? If I say run a home server, a gaming server, and doing my own gaming/normal use, could I dedicate (considering 4 modules), a module for the server, a module for the gaming server, and 2 modules for normal use and not have them use the same resources; i.e., make them independent of each other?


----------



## JF-AMD

As long as you can assign task affinity in the OS, yes. This is not a processor issue, it is a software issue.


----------



## andrews2547

If it is AM3 compatible them I am going to get it, if not then I will get it for my next build.


----------



## JF-AMD

We are only supporting bulldozer on AM3+ sockets


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We are only supporting bulldozer on AM3+ sockets


What about chipset, for a board like mine? It has the newer socket, but still on 890GX. I assume it's up to the mobo maker? I'm guessing it'll be BIOS/UEFI updates.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

I just wish we had a better idea as to when these processors will come out. After all we are a week away from August. The month it is supposed to come out.


----------



## yukon

^^^^ The hype is enjoyable though.. Why spoil it?


----------



## JF-AMD

All I am saying is that AMD is not supporting bulldozer in any socket other than AM3+.


----------



## pcclock

So I can't make a topic about Bulldozer?

I had a question about it.


----------



## JF-AMD

You can ask any question you want. I stay clear of client stuff because some people couldn't behave themselves.


----------



## linkin93

Would it be safe to assume that if a motherboard has the AM3+ socket, regardless of chipset, Bulldozer should be supported, or at least function to some capacity?


----------



## hokiealumnus

It will not be supported on anything other than those motherboards with a native AM3+ platform, meaning 990FX boards. _AMD_ will not support Zambezi on any other chipsets. Motherboard partners can make their own choices. See this article from a while ago; that info came from our rep at AMD, straight from the horse's mouth.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


You can ask any question you want. I stay clear of client stuff because some people couldn't behave themselves.


Why don't you get some OCN Secret Service?
If someone tries to mess with you, I or someone else will "take care of them".


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Why don't you get some OCN Secret Service?
If someone tries to mess with you, I or someone else will "take care of them".










He has one. And they belong to the 3 letter organizational food chain.

AMD








"Don't mess with us cause we hold your warranty"

















JF... anyone ever told you AMD Registration sucks hairy Tribbles? Been trying to register forever and it just keeps clearing my PW info and blinking at me. I've got a lot of patience but the well is not infinite. Bout ready to fly to Germany and stuff this CPU where it will do the most good.









~Ceadder


----------



## Canis-X

^ ...I'm here Huckleberry......LOL


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All I am saying is that AMD is not supporting bulldozer in any socket other than AM3+.


You have said this, what, 2.7 million times and some still don't listen.









How about this: Do you know what socket BD second gen will run on?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


You have said this, what, 2.7 million times and some still don't listen.









How about this: Do you know what socket BD second gen will run on?


FM1?









See what I did there?









~Ceadder


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


You have said this, what, 2.7 million times and some still don't listen.










It perfectly illustrates the ultimate truth, people only hear what they want to hear.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Single socket supermicro g34 board at newegg for only 234.99....










I recommend dual socket for some serious computing


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14355564*
> He has one. And they belong to the 3 letter organizational food chain.
> 
> AMD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Don't mess with us cause we hold your warranty"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JF... anyone ever told you AMD Registration sucks hairy Tribbles? Been trying to register forever and it just keeps clearing my PW info and blinking at me. I've got a lot of patience but the well is not infinite. Bout ready to fly to Germany and stuff this CPU where it will do the most good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


I actually have to register my AMD CPU so it has a warranty?
Shhh,I never overclocked it or used aftermarket cooling.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14356701*
> Or FM2? FM1+?


I see what you did there.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14356024*
> FM1?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I did there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


Or FM2? FM1+?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14356647*
> I actually have to register my AMD CPU so it has a warranty?
> Shhh,I never overclocked it or used aftermarket cooling.


Nope. Had to RMA my wife's compy's 3 core due to a bad core and never registered it, got a new one back!


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14353344*
> All I am saying is that AMD is not supporting bulldozer in any socket other than AM3+.


Does this rely on a BIOS update from the motherboard manufacturer, or will they just work? I'm in the process of building a super budget rig. I'm thinking about grabbing a cheap AM3+ board (Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P), and a Sempron 140. Would it be safe to assume that in the future I could drop a Bulldozer CPU into this when I have the money?

That's a big factor in this decision, because otherwise I already have an E1200 that I could just buy a Socket 775 motherboard for instead of going AM3+ with Sempron 140.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;14357538*
> Does this rely on a BIOS update from the motherboard manufacturer, or will they just work? I'm in the process of building a super budget rig. I'm thinking about grabbing a cheap AM3+ board (Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P), and a Sempron 140. Would it be safe to assume that in the future I could drop a Bulldozer CPU into this when I have the money?


amd doesnt support anything other then the am3+ socket ... he didnt say anything about the chipset .. just the socket .. and that's an official amd stance and anyway JF-AMD is a server guy .. so he wont respond to you with anything more clever


----------



## Dimaggio1103

I thought someone told me that bulldozer is coming out in June? What happened to that did they say when it is actually coming out or anything yet?


----------



## purpleannex

All he's asking is if ALL AM3+ boards will support BD natively, which is what I thought the point of AM3+ was, he's not asking JF to clarify mobo manufacturers positions, just the platform in general.


----------



## Fr0sty

all i said was that jf-amd wont comment on anything more then amd only support the am3+ socket

and if he's asking for a 890 chipset that uses the am3+ socket then he's not even talking to the right guy ... because jf-amd is a server guy ... so that's the only answer he will get ...

hence my post ... if he wants info on an 890 am3+ mobo ... not some made up am3 with am3+ support board he should call the maker of that board or e-mail them for official support of said motherboard since it seems that some will offer support on their own or not ...


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14357585*
> amd doesnt support anything other then the am3+ socket ... he didnt say anything about the chipset .. just the socket .. and that's an official amd stance and anyway JF-AMD is a server guy .. so he wont respond to you with anything more clever


Yeah, I figured. I'll probably just wait and see what's up.


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14357847*
> he's not asking JF to clarify mobo manufacturers positions, just the platform in general.


But he sort of is. If I understand this properly from AMD's point of view the only AM3+ motherboards have 970 or 990 chipsets. Any 790 or 890 motherboard is by definition not an AM3+ motherboard from AMD's point of view. Regardless of what type of socket is on it.

If a motherboard manufacturer advertises a board with a 790 or 890 chipset as AM3+ then it is up to that manufacturer to give customer support for it. Not AMD.

I think there are just a lot of AM3 motherboards left that the manufacturers want to get rid of, and some are probably willing to stretch the truth to do this.

Given that there are a lot of options now for 970 or 990 boards, why would anyone purchase a 790 or 890 based motherboard at this point if they have any intention to purchase a bulldozer based cpu?


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103;14357818*
> I thought someone told me that bulldozer is coming out in June? What happened to that did they say when it is actually coming out or anything yet?


You and a whole lot of other people are getting confused, impatient, irritated, or all of the above. See, the thing is a lot of people had plans to build something around the time of June when it was originally thought to launch and guess what? Delayed. And now they August... or Q3.... however, you like it. One thing is for sure... AMD will launch it's product not too long before Ivy Bridge comes out and if their CPU is awesome sauce then hopefully they can keep up or outpace Intel. However, if any recent years are to be of example AMD will still lag behind in most respects. I wish they provided more competition to Intel, but maybe that is part of the later release of BD. To make it perfect and to get back in front or make a big dent.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;14359968*
> You and a whole lot of other people are getting confused, impatient, irritated, or all of the above. See, the thing is a lot of people had plans to build something around the time of June when it was originally thought to launch and guess what? Delayed. And now they August... or Q3.... however, you like it. One thing is for sure... AMD will launch it's product not too long before Ivy Bridge comes out and if their CPU is awesome sauce then hopefully they can keep up or outpace Intel. However, if any recent years are to be of example AMD will still lag behind in most respects. I wish they provided more competition to Intel, but maybe that is part of the later release of BD. To make it perfect and to get back in front or make a big dent.


Call me crazy, but by reading more and more into the architecture I'm convinced Bulldozer will beat Sandy Bridge in almost everything and Enhanced Bulldozer will beat Ivy Bridge in almost everything. IPC might lag a bit, but besides that Bulldozer is looking fantastic.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

@Dimaggio1103

Bulldozer was delayed 30-60 days back on June 1st, reports are coming out now the release date will be September 19 which puts them at 20 days over that projected release date.

In the end it will get here when it gets here though


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


But he sort of is. If I understand this properly from AMD's point of view the only AM3+ motherboards have 970 or 990 chipsets. Any 790 or 890 motherboard is by definition not an AM3+ motherboard from AMD's point of view. Regardless of what type of socket is on it.

If a motherboard manufacturer advertises a board with a 790 or 890 chipset as AM3+ then it is up to that manufacturer to give customer support for it. Not AMD.

I think there are just a lot of AM3 motherboards left that the manufacturers want to get rid of, and some are probably willing to stretch the truth to do this.

Given that there are a lot of options now for 970 or 990 boards, why would anyone purchase a 790 or 890 based motherboard at this point if they have any intention to purchase a bulldozer based cpu?


Yeah I'm not sure your thought is valid.

Manufacturers have sold their boards. They're already out and in somebody's warehouse waiting for someone to buy them. The manufacturers have a certain amount held back for RMA purposes and they take the boards that they can recondition to send back to complete the RMA process. So it's not likely that ASUS, Gigabyte and MSi are blowing smoke up our rectal cavities to sell AM3 boards. In fact it's counter to their RMA process to do that.

Also they just built AM3+ boards and would like to sell those and make even more money than try to make a sale on the year old 890 chipset that is only $20 less than the current AM3+ platforms in most instances.

The point of making a BIOS that would allow the use of BD on 890 platforms(the only one possible to my knowledge) is so people like me who bought their board a year ago will buy a future board from the manufacturer who allowed me to run my board a little longer while allowing me to use a CPU that is significantly faster than the one I'm using now.

Make sense?









It's about the almighty global dollar, but only in a different way.









~Ceadder


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


reports are coming out now the release date will be September 19 which puts them at 20 days over that projected release date.


all of them reports are based on the fx cartoon thing which displayed nothing but a potential date without any indication to what it might relate to.. personally i think thats kind of thin


----------



## Tatakai All

I have half the mind to call it Booooo-dozer but I've waited this long patiently and honestly wouldn't mind the extra time to pick up the few more components that I need to complete my new build.


----------



## jck

I'm patiently waiting too...for it to come out and look at a) benchmarks by some reputable hardware sites, and b) get some feedback on what kind of a folding performance others get.

I won't get my bulldozer til the end of the year, probably. Going through a whole life-changing circumstance right now. But, i want to get the latest-and-greatest AMD if it's performance does what I want.

Hopefully, I'll get a 8-core AMD and dual dual-GPU cards and 16GB and that will be my main rig for the next 2 years while I save money.


----------



## proximo

On June 1st, AMD announced it would be 60-90 days until the Bulldozer launch:










"late summer" being on or before September 21st.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


@Dimaggio1103

Bulldozer was delayed 30-60 days back on June 1st, reports are coming out now the release date will be September 19 which puts them at 20 days over that projected release date.

In the end it will get here when it gets here though


----------



## 8bitbreed

Is anyone els worried that BD might cold bug?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8bitbreed*


Is anyone els worried that BD might cold bug?


Phenom II didn't cold bug & Llano doesn't have a cold bug; so I wouldn't worry about.

Sandy Bridge does though.

AMD knows how to garner market share through excellent marketing (and I say this as someone who studies and practices the subject.) If it had a cold bug, they wouldn't be marketing it as FX or such a high end product.


----------



## 8bitbreed

yes yes my thoughts too, but it still don't stop me worriing about though.

i,ve done some pritty mad cold boots with phenom 2's

please please please be a good little Bulldozer and do some damage

ding ding round 2 lol


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8bitbreed*


yes yes my thoughts too, but it still don't stop me worriing about though.

i,ve done some pritty mad cold boots with phenom 2's

please please please be a good little Bulldozer and do some damage


Well we won't know till it's out and everyone starts posting results.









The best you can do is wait; though, often, a companies actions (and confidence) will tell you what they expect from their products. While it's not always the best benchmark to go by, it's the best you can do when official results are not out yet.


----------



## 8bitbreed

Im going to start preying right about........... now.


----------



## Seronx

Well I got my T-shirt today, sorry about the last couple of days, lol, No sleep at all










I might(will) replace these Dell Xeon Servers I have with some Interlagos/Valencia powered servers







(Not using these cases but probably server cases from Newegg)((Would be pretty mean to put AMD chips in and say Intel Xeons inside lol)



















Thanks for the shirt JF-AMD


----------



## pioneerisloud

Oh sure....YOU get a shirt. While I'm here cleaning this thread every day, and I get nothing....









Looks good though.







I'd wear it.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14366003*
> Oh sure....YOU get a shirt. While I'm here cleaning this thread every day, and I get nothing....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd wear it.


QQ? lolz

Is there actually an AMD store to buy swag?

(I kinda like the BD FX logo is why I ask...so I know where to go get it)


----------



## Tweeky

AMD 10 core bulldozer to be released

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/beyond_bulldozer_amd_may_release_10-core_cpu_2012


----------



## 8bitbreed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14367074*
> AMD 10 core bulldozer to be released
> 
> http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/beyond_bulldozer_amd_may_release_10-core_cpu_2012


I do belive thats a fake!


----------



## 2010rig

Hey JF-AMD,

Can you get me a "Ready. Willing. Stable" T-shirt? Pretty please.

http://www.amd.com/stable


----------



## jck

Has anyone seen anything from AMD about the Bulldozer release on their website?

I used to have the FX preview page, but I lost it when I got this new machine.


----------



## Canis-X

Well, there's this one and that one, none of which give any specifics.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Hey JF-AMD,

Can you get me a "Ready. Willing. Stable" T-shirt? Pretty please.

http://www.amd.com/stable


no, if I do that it all gets out of proportion.


----------



## Ceadderman

I think I've got it figured out. AMD is waiting for more AM3+ boards to sell before they release em.

And how come I cannot register on the site JF-AMD? I've done everything with a red asterisk and set my PW up to be 8-10 digits in a combination of numbers and letters with one special character.

Sincerely;
No joy in AMDville.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Seronx

I just want to post this since we are close to launch

K10/K12 Integer Unit :









K15 Integer Unit(There are two of these in 1 CU):









K10/K12 Floating Point Unit:









K15 Floating Point Unit:









K10/K12 Key Features:









K15 Key Features:









JF-AMD is it a typo that it says Two-way Integer Execution?
while in the Integer Unit part it says Four-way Integer Execution?


----------



## Usario

Summary of all those pics Seronx posted:

Bulldozer is a beast microarchitecture. It will bulldoze Intel. It could even win in IPC.


----------



## Tatakai All

What's going to be the Bulldozer flagship model name for desktop? Example: FX-8****


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14374236*
> What's going to be the Bulldozer flagship model name for desktop? Example: FX-8****


Older rumors had all said FX-8130P, but more recent ones say FX-8150.

I'd still like to go with the old rumored names: FX 4100 (95W, Q4), FX 4110 (95W, Q3), FX 4120 (95W, Q4), FX 6100 (95W, Q4), FX 6110 (95W, Q3), FX 6120 (95W, Q4), FX 8100 (95W, Q4), FX 8110 (95W, Q3), FX 8120 (95W, Q4), FX 8130P (125W, Q3), FX 8150P (125W, Q3), and FX 8170P (125W, Q1 '12). And of course AMD could expand to the FX-8190P (which, based on the rumored clock speeds of the FX-8110 and FX-8130P, would come at a stock clock of *4.5 GHz*) IMO they make more sense.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14374342*
> Older rumors had all said FX-8130P, but more recent ones say FX-8150.
> 
> I'd still like to go with the old rumored names: FX 4100 (95W, Q4), FX 4110 (95W, Q3), FX 4120 (95W, Q4), FX 6100 (95W, Q4), FX 6110 (95W, Q3), FX 6120 (95W, Q4), FX 8100 (95W, Q4), FX 8110 (95W, Q3), FX 8120 (95W, Q4), FX 8130P (125W, Q3), FX 8150P (125W, Q3), and FX 8170P (125W, Q1 '12). And of course AMD could expand to the FX-8190P (which, based on the rumored clock speeds of the FX-8110 and FX-8130P, would come at a stock clock of *4.5 GHz*) IMO they make more sense.


You know that's what I thought too, I'm just wondering because I just want to put the right correct name in my sig lol. I'll just leave it at FX-8130P until we get a solid confirmation.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14374501*
> You know that's what I thought too, I'm just wondering because I just want to put the right correct name in my sig lol. I'll just leave it at FX-8130P until we get a solid confirmation.


dont worry until the cpu actually comes out ...


----------



## Usario

Oh and I'd also like to point out that the rumor that says FX 8150 also lists some wild clock speeds... and the only other source that says there's an FX 8150 is OBR. So I'd take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14369874*
> Well, there's this one and that one, none of which give any specifics.


It's the 2nd one...I'd kinda hoped that the Coming Soon would be gone...or some more info would be there. Last time i looked there was June, I think.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14374189*
> Summary of all those pics Seronx posted:
> 
> Bulldozer is a beast microarchitecture. It will bulldoze Intel. It could even win in IPC.


We can only hope.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14374236*
> What's going to be the Bulldozer flagship model name for desktop? Example: FX-8****


Something I read a min ago said the 8150 will be the flagship...until Q1 2012...when they release new models.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14374535*
> dont worry until the cpu actually comes out ...


I'm not worrying...I'm







lolz
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14375266*
> Oh and I'd also like to point out that the rumor that says FX 8150 also lists some wild clock speeds... and the only other source that says there's an FX 8150 is OBR. So I'd take it with a grain of salt.


All I saw was something about 3.6 with 4.2 Turbo Clock, I think. I just glanced at the listing...and, my memory is shot so I don't wanna say I'm remembering that or something else.

I am just anxious. I am piece by piece collecting my parts for the new rig as they come cheap. And, I found an OCZ 850W PSU just sitting around in a box the other day, so I have my PSU already.


----------



## Usario

^ it also said that the 4120 would have a 200 MHz turbo, and the 8100 would have a 900 MHz turbo

Take it with a truckload of salt


----------



## jck

I am...making a final decision when a few sites have reviews and benchmarks.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14378859*
> I am...making a final decision when a few sites have reviews and benchmarks.


Or, Buy a "Bulldozer" CPU
Buy "AIO" Water Cooling preferably H80 or H100
Input in High Quality Motherboard(ASrock/ASUS)
Use Bus Setting 250MHz and Multiplier 23x
"Win, Win, Win"










P.S. Be sure to use a powerful eco friendly power supply(80 PLUS GOLD and PLATINUM)

Note: Not all CPUs are the same


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Or, Buy a "Bulldozer" CPU
Buy "AIO" Water Cooling preferably H80 or H100
Input in High Quality Motherboard(ASrock/ASUS)
Use Bus Setting 250MHz and Multiplier 23x
"Win, Win, Win"










P.S. Be sure to use a powerful eco friendly power supply(80 PLUS GOLD and PLATINUM)

Note: Not all CPUs are the same


Get real water instead. If it's hitting 5.7 (which I doubt it will, but we can dream...) on AIO water then it'll hit 6 on a Rasa kit


----------



## Roedi

A dutch forum confirmed via via OBR never had a bulldozer CPU. He is trolling. Someone give that dude a kick in the balls.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


A dutch forum confirmed via via OBR never had a bulldozer CPU. He is trolling. Someone give that dude a kick in the balls.


Link?


----------



## Roedi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Link?


http://nl.hardware.info/forum/thread...en-2500K/page2 post 28


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


http://nl.hardware.info/forum/thread...en-2500K/page2 post 28


Not that I ever believed benches or anything from OBR... but I actually believed he had a Bulldozer ES... damn troll









I am convinced he has SOME sort of AMD engineering sample, but... if it's not Bulldozer, I couldn't care less


----------



## Fr0sty

interesting


----------



## JCPUser

Well I am sure there is some way to fake that video with the BIOS splash screen, but I surely don't know how, lol.

Nonetheless, with all the crap OBR has spewed it is fitting that in the end he never had a sample to begin with.


----------



## Mit Namso

remember a little while back someone posted a video that showed BIOS loading and then into windows

BD ES at 4.?? some odd and showed some CPUZ and maybe task manager

and then at the end said benches coming soon, well this is soon, where are they?

And a question for JF-AMD
when do BD non-disclosure agreements end, the day of retail launch, or before?


----------



## Usario

^ NDAs usually end a few days before retail availability, just going from history.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;14387945*
> And a question for JF-AMD
> when do BD non-disclosure agreements end, the day of retail launch, or before?


I believe that's part of the NDA as well.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


I believe that's part of the NDA as well.


Yup. I don't think AMD or anyone else would leave a loophole like that


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


And a question for JF-AMD
when do BD non-disclosure agreements end, the day of retail launch, or before?












We have got to be getting close now


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mit Namso*


And a question for JF-AMD
when do BD non-disclosure agreements end, the day of retail launch, or before?


it depends, each one is different.


----------



## Canis-X

Sooooo.......what about this one then, i.e. BD?


----------



## hokiealumnus

IIRC, the recent CPUs I've reviewed (Llano/overclocked, x4 980BE, 1100T) were all available in as little as a few days and as much as a week'ish. I don't recall any of them taking longer than two weeks to market after NDA expiration. The only one I recall specifically was Llano, which took four days from NDA expiration-to-market.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Or, Buy a "Bulldozer" CPU
Buy "AIO" Water Cooling preferably H80 or H100
Input in High Quality Motherboard(ASrock/ASUS)
Use Bus Setting 250MHz and Multiplier 23x
"Win, Win, Win"










P.S. Be sure to use a powerful eco friendly power supply(80 PLUS GOLD and PLATINUM)

Note: Not all CPUs are the same


I'll get Bulldozer...if it meets my wants and *technically* reviews well.

I think the 850W I have is 80 Plus Silver or Bronze...later if I move to dual dual-GPU config, I'll get a 1000W+ 80 Plus Gold unit.

I'll probably get either an Asus or MSI motherboard. I'm not big on Gigabyte, although their 990-based UD5 looks...promising. I'll probably go with Asus Sabertooth or MSI 990FX board.

I already have a 64GB SSD on the side I had spare. Also have a couple spare HDs. Memory should arrive today. Have a spare DVD drive. I sell my i7-875K and its mobo, I'll have a case and everything...even watercooling setup for it.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Get real water instead. If it's hitting 5.7 (which I doubt it will, but we can dream...) on AIO water then it'll hit 6 on a Rasa kit










If I get a water kit, I'll get a Corsair kit with a single fan...and get 2 of my own to push/pull it.

Later after I save up more $$$, I will custom water kit the CPU...after I've done a custom kit on a less expensive rig.

I've never custom-built a water cooling setup, so I don't wanna test my skills on a $1700-2000 rig.

But, I'm ready for Bulldozer. Just continually







and waiting and sometimes







lolz


----------



## seeratlas

I can vouch for the 990FX Sabertooth. It's one stable mboard. I just built a 'waiting for Dozer' box and for the interim, plugged in a 965BE. There's an auto o'clock feature on this board which I hit just for giggles and turned away a few minutes, when I looked again the 965 was self testing away humming along at 4100 with two other proggies running. Could've knocked me over with a feather. BE was under a Xigatek Gaia in a darned nice Rosewill Midtower, pushing an evga superclocked plus GTX480 with a Thermaltake 750 Bronze. That's just too damned easy LOL.

Seer


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14391325*
> Sooooo.......what about this one then, i.e. BD?


just telling you would break the nature of the nda ....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seeratlas;14397293*
> I can vouch for the 990FX Sabertooth. It's one stable mboard. I just built a 'waiting for Dozer' box and for the interim, plugged in a 965BE. There's an auto o'clock feature on this board which I hit just for giggles and turned away a few minutes, when I looked again the 965 was self testing away humming along at 4100 with two other proggies running. Could've knocked me over with a feather. BE was under a Xigatek Gaia in a darned nice Rosewill Midtower, pushing an evga superclocked plus GTX480 with a Thermaltake 750 Bronze. That's just too damned easy LOL.
> 
> Seer


now do it on your own and go for more


----------



## nub

Looking at this made me wonder if they are hinting at performance...








http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//e3fadec6991.jpg


----------



## Blackops_2

That is very peculiar, never noticed it. I hopes it's true that would be absolutely great.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Sooooo.......what about this one then, i.e. BD?










I hope the company making our CPUs was smart enough to include in the NDA that you can't say when the NDA expires...


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Looking at this made me wonder if they are hinting at performance...








http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//e3fadec6991.jpg


Wow! If that's for 1M, that's really quite impressive!
(512k for me is 18 passes, but 1M is 19...)


----------



## purpleannex

The checksum is invalid.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


The checksum is invalid.


I went there too, so it leads me to believe either the numbers are fudged or they just put in a fictional number for the checksum. Hence my stating "if" they are true.


----------



## cssorkinman

Did you also notice that the checksum had "BD" in it???? lol


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*


Did you also notice that the checksum had "BD" in it???? lol










That is what got me wondering if it was a hint....


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14399491*
> Looking at this made me wonder if they are hinting at performance...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//e3fadec6991.jpg


what comic is this? what is it from and why do you think it has anything to do with BD??? Can you post the website so i can see the whole thing?

thanks


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;14409406*
> what comic is this? what is it from and why do you think it has anything to do with BD??? Can you post the website so i can see the whole thing?
> 
> thanks


The checksum has "BD" in it


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


what comic is this? what is it from and why do you think it has anything to do with BD??? Can you post the website so i can see the whole thing?

thanks


It's from AMD I usually get these comic posts on FB from liking them.


----------



## Blackops_2

Is it part of the whole "FX" superhero comic thing? I can only hope that that picture is a hint because that would be so awesome.


----------



## purpleannex

Not if it was superpi to 16k! lol


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

is there any way you can post this so i can read it too? It looks like a picture was taken then poseted? LOL
I have face book also, PM if you want to send it to me?
thanks


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Not if it was superpi to 16k! lol


I thought it was a time of 4.xx seconds though? I know nothing of SuperPi but Phenoms currently score in the teens correct? With i7 @ 4.0 getting 6-7?


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


Looking at this made me wonder if they are hinting at performance...








http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//e3fadec6991.jpg


why is the whole comic in chinese? except for when the one dude says? OH MY GOD!!! LOL somthing seems fishy???


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


why is the whole comic in chinese? except for when the one dude says? OH MY GOD!!! LOL somthing seems fishy???


Was wondering the same.


----------



## Tweeky

The release date is going to be at 19/09/2011, but some else chip are going to release in 1Q 2012.(The models FX-xx70 and FX-xx20 release in 1Q 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors


----------



## catharsis

when is AMD going to make an OFFICIAL release date. It's almost august and still no word. I am by no means in need of a new PC. But the lack of details is really bugging me.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


when is AMD going to make an OFFICIAL release date. It's almost august and still no word. I am by no means in need of a new PC. But the lack of details is really bugging me.


I feel ya there. As long as the wait has been a peak or a notion from AMD would be helpful. They're being so secretive


----------



## Billy_5110

I want to wait for buldozer but they take to much time for it... If in a week we don't have something interesting about it i'm going sandybridge >.<


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Billy_5110*


I want to wait for buldozer but they take to much time for it... If in a week we don't have something interesting about it i'm going sandybridge >.<


At this point i wouldn't go SB though. The way i look at it, if your in the market for a new PC wait. Because SB-E is on the verge of coming out and on LGA2011 which will be IB ready. And with BD being introduced it's actually going to be pretty exciting especially if BD competes. I'm already set up for BD so i'm getting it, but if i was on standby for a new rig i would definitely wait.


----------



## Tatakai All

Well there's no backing out for me so I'll just keep on waiting.


----------



## Billy_5110

lga 2011 motherboard are comming soon and sandy-e too? Do you have a release date? And for buldo? no date?

I won't wait a year for it...


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14413845*
> I thought it was a time of 4.xx seconds though? I know nothing of SuperPi but Phenoms currently score in the teens correct? With i7 @ 4.0 getting 6-7?


Superpi calculates pi to various decimal places.










I believe you're thinking of 1m places.

However superpi is the most worthless test you could run on an AMD cpu, because it uses x87 instruction sets, which AMD cpus no longer use.

I was just saying that 4 seconds for 16000 places is terrible... even for AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14416193*
> However superpi is the most worthless test you could run on an AMD cpu, because it uses x87 instruction sets, which AMD cpus no longer use.
> 
> I was just saying that 4 seconds for 16000 places is terrible... even for AMD.


If Superpi is so worthless, why is AMD using it in their comic, and saying "Oh my God!" at the results?


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14416254*
> If Superpi is so worthless, why is AMD using it in their comic, and saying "Oh my God!" at the results?


It's useless for comparing AMD to Intel.

It's useful for comparing architectures under the same brand.
It's useful for benching single threaded performance

That's about it. It's old and antiquated.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14359624*
> But he sort of is. If I understand this properly from AMD's point of view the only AM3+ motherboards have 970 or 990 chipsets. Any 790 or 890 motherboard is by definition not an AM3+ motherboard from AMD's point of view. Regardless of what type of socket is on it.
> 
> If a motherboard manufacturer advertises a board with a 790 or 890 chipset as AM3+ then it is up to that manufacturer to give customer support for it. Not AMD.
> 
> I think there are just a lot of AM3 motherboards left that the manufacturers want to get rid of, and some are probably willing to stretch the truth to do this.


Thanks for the clarification on this. I'm really not up to date on AMD chipsets.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14359624*
> Given that there are a lot of options now for 970 or 990 boards, why would anyone purchase a 790 or 890 based motherboard at this point if they have any intention to purchase a bulldozer based cpu?


There aren't any MicroATX 970 or 990 boards. The computer that I'm purchasing parts for will be in a Lian-Li PC-V354- MicroATX. As I said, I'm going to hold out though. Hopefully there will be some 970 boards in the MicroATX formfactor.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14416254*
> If Superpi is so worthless, why is AMD using it in their comic, and saying "Oh my God!" at the results?


http://hwbot.org/newsflash/1346_87clockers_the_art_of_overclocking_in_the_world_of_manga

It is not their comic


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14415807*
> when is AMD going to make an OFFICIAL release date. It's almost august and still no word. I am by no means in need of a new PC. But the lack of details is really bugging me.


Bulldozer is coming out when Dr. Dre's Detox is coming out.









On a more serious note, AMD usually doesn't announce release dates too far in advance. Llano hit retail two days after the NDA expired.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14416639*
> Bulldozer is coming out when Dr. Dre's Detox is coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a more serious note, AMD usually doesn't announce release dates too far in advance. Llano hit retail two days after the NDA expired.


Isn't that bad marketing though? The point of a release date is to set up hype around a product and ensure your customers will save their money for your said product. Instead of getting frustrated and splurging it on something else.


----------



## rindoze

They're not giving a release date because they already listed one like 5 times now and missed all of them. Bulldozer obviously has issues


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14416707*
> Isn't that bad marketing though? The point of a release date is to set up hype around a product and ensure your customers will save their money for your said product. Instead of getting frustrated and splurging it on something else.


No, it's actually genius.

Basically, if you tell someone "Bulldozer is coming soon, and it'll be way better than Phenom II," they'll say "great, I'll wait". But if it's surrounded by mystery, AMD will sell more CPUs to non-enthusiasts right now.

And hype generated through silence is the best kind of hype. Look at Apple.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rindoze;14416976*
> They're not giving a release date because they already listed one like 5 times now and missed all of them. Bulldozer obviously has issues


They've given one missed release timeframe for 32nm Bulldozer, Q2 '11.

Also the official statement from AMD is that it was delayed so that Llano and Bulldozer get their own spotlight instead of one stealing from the other, which would happen if they were both released at the same time.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14416707*
> Isn't that bad marketing though? The point of a release date is to set up hype around a product and ensure your customers will save their money for your said product. Instead of getting frustrated and splurging it on something else.


If they had something to show they would they are just trying to put off the inevitable as long as possible


----------



## raisethe3

Just like I predicted, AMD is late, but kept denying it. JF mentioned that it was supposed to come out Q2, but never did.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14415771*
> The release date is going to be at 19/09/2011, but some else chip are going to release in 1Q 2012.(The models FX-xx70 and FX-xx20 release in 1Q 2012)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_FX_microprocessors


----------



## Seronx

1,244 Trays/CPUs coming by August 5th, 2011(Estimated time of Arrival)

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000505_BKU8925P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!









So, Interlagos is coming August neat


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14417909*
> 1,244 Trays/CPUs coming by August 5th, 2011(Estimated time of Arrival)
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000505_BKU8925P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!
> 
> So, Interlagos is coming August neat


Great find! Hopefully desktop BD won't be far behind. By the way, I did not intend to rhyme.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Superpi calculates pi to various decimal places.










I believe you're thinking of 1m places.

However superpi is the most worthless test you could run on an AMD cpu, because it uses x87 instruction sets, which AMD cpus no longer use.

I was just saying that 4 seconds for 16000 places is terrible... even for AMD.


I had forgotten that, i remember reading about the whole x87 and AMD with superPi. Thanks for clearing up how it works though.


----------



## hazarada

you know what day it is? today is the first day BD could potentially be waiting for you on store shelves! alltho today apparently isnt the day there are 30 more potential days coming right up!


----------



## purpleannex

Many of us on this thread and others like it last year were 70% expecting an April 2011 release. At the time time I was very interested in BD and although I kept saying I wasn't going to upgrade, I may have been tempted if they good enough due to the hype generated. But now, I really couldn't care less, I won't buy a BD, it's lost all it's momentum for me, that's why i've written before on here that AMD shouldn't have spoke about it until it was due for release, then the hype would've sold it. And if the socket is effectively redundant early next year BD is defenitely a dead duck as far as i'm concerned, it will just be an interesting experiment to watch unfold, and it should give you a fairly good indication of you can expect from AMD in the next few years, as this will be their basic architecture for some time.

Off topic, because my post reminded me of something....

Whilst playing Crysis 2 the other day, one of the character used the word architecture, he was American, he pronounced it as *arch* itecture (as in a span, such as a bridge), is this normal in America? In the UK we say *ark* itecture, i'm just curious as I wasn't sure if it was intended to be mispronounced or if this is normal?


----------



## proximo

*ark* itecture is standard US pronunciation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Whilst playing Crysis 2 the other day, one of the character used the word architecture, he was American, he pronounced it as *arch* itecture (as in a span, such as a bridge), is this normal in America? In the UK we say *ark* itecture, i'm just curious as I wasn't sure if it was intended to be mispronounced or if this is normal?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


you know what day it is? today is the first day BD could potentially be waiting for you on store shelves! alltho today apparently isnt the day there are 30 more potential days coming right up!


The server CPU's are just starting to come out, and they were "allegedly" delayed and not delayed. The servers were *originally *due out in August, and that's exactly when they are being released.

The September 19 release is looking to be more probable at this point. Most of these "rumors" about delays have been far more accurate then anything AMD has released. For example, AMD's PR reps denied that Bulldozer was delayed, and that it would be out in June. 5 Days later, we found out that BD was in fact delayed.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I agree with PurpleAnnex, this whole Bulldozer release has lost its momentum. Why can't AMD give us a solid release date? At computex they said 60 - 90 days, we now have 30 days left from when they made that statement.


----------



## Lexinious

Crosshair V Formula MB's good for this right? I already have a IV with the 890FX chipset and 1090T 6core that O/c ez to 4gigs and no problem but am wondering if I should by this board (Crosshair V) or wait till they (Bulldozer) actually come out?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lexinious;14424608*
> Crosshair V Formula MB's good for this right? I already have a IV with the 890FX chipset and 1090T 6core that O/c ez to 4gigs and no problem but am wondering if I should by this board (Crosshair V) or wait till they (Bulldozer) actually come out?


CHV is a good board, but I'd probably wait to see if the 8130P will be better than the 2600k.

BD hasn't lost its momentum for me, but it's near losing it. I have had a cart on Newegg ready for BD and Radeon 7000 series GPU(s) since late March, but I'm beginning to lose my patience and I have another cart now ready for a 3930k and Rampage IV. Yes, I know SB-E will probably be a bit faster than BD and it's in a completely different price category, but if I can save $200-300 on the CPU I won't have to cheap out on some of the other parts


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14426911*
> CHV is a good board, *but I'd probably wait to see if the 8130P will be better than the 2600k*


+1 This


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14424486*
> The September 19 release is looking to be more probable at this point. Most of these "rumors" about delays have been far more accurate then anything AMD has released. For example, AMD's PR reps denied that Bulldozer was delayed, and that it would be out in June. 5 Days later, we found out that BD was in fact delayed.


August 2nd
*August 9th*
*August 16th*
August 23rd
August 30rd
September 6th
*September 13th*

*Dates* = Dates with vicinities near full moons








, AMD Consumer CPUs = Tuesdays
AMD Server CPUs = Monday


----------



## Blackops_2

For AMD's sake i hope it matches or beats the 2600k. I just hope it's not considerably slower.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14427015*
> For AMD's sake i hope it matches or beats the 2600k. I just hope it's not considerably slower.


I think it'll probably lose in single threaded (not by that much though, probably around or less than 10%, 15% at the most) but dominate in multithreaded. But I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it matches SB IPC.


----------



## Blackops_2

I think it will definitely take heavily multithreaded applications also. I'm tired of waiting though, had i not had to replace some things and build my current rig, i would most definitely be holding out for IB. Phenom had the same delays which kills hype and makes people wonder. Being that i'm interested in how things are going, i'm starting to wonder also.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14427025*
> I think it'll probably lose in single threaded (not by that much though, probably around or less than 10%, 15% at the most) but dominate in multithreaded. But I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it matches SB IPC.


I say it would be equal to it


































Wonder how far the gap will close xD

I do believe one core in a module has access to 2 cores of resources so maybe we will see double the Phenom II









but then again....512KB -> 2MB L2 says 4x
10mm^2 to 31mm^2

I just want the benchies out


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lexinious;14424608*
> Crosshair V Formula MB's good for this right? I already have a IV with the 890FX chipset and 1090T 6core that O/c ez to 4gigs and no problem but am wondering if I should by this board (Crosshair V) or wait till they (Bulldozer) actually come out?


I think you should wait until (Bulldozer) actually come out because Crosshair VI will be available by then


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14428194*
> I think you should wait until (Bulldozer) actually come out because Crosshair VI will be available by then


You mean Crosshair V Extreme

Crosshair V Formula -> Crosshair V Extreme


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14427179*
> I say it would be equal to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder how far the gap will close xD
> 
> I do believe one core in a module has access to 2 cores of resources so maybe we will see double the Phenom II
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but then again....512KB -> 2MB L2 says 4x
> 10mm^2 to 31mm^2
> 
> I just want the benchies out


IPC would have to increase 55%.

I honestly do not believe this will happen, however I would not be surprised if it did.

Also modules cannot combine the two integer cores. However they have one 256-bit FPU which can handle two 128-bit workloads simultaneously.


----------



## Fr0sty

what people believe and what will happen are two different thing ... remember this folks ... if we see a 30% jump in single core performance ... then its epic ... more is an added bonus

its a brand new architecture so i expect good things from amd


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14428284*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14428194*
> I think you should wait until (Bulldozer) actually come out because Crosshair VI will be available by then
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Crosshair V Extreme
> 
> Crosshair V Formula -> Crosshair V Extreme
Click to expand...









We *know* what he meant!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14428482*
> Also modules cannot combine the two integer cores. However they have one 256-bit FPU which can handle two 128-bit workloads simultaneously.


I wasn't really commenting on combining two integer cores









^this

1 Core can ask for 2 128bit FADDs or 2 128bit FMULs

PhII can ask for 1 128bit FADD or 1 128bit FMUL
FX can ask for 2 128bit FADD or 2 128bit FMUL or 1 128bit FADD+1 128bit FMUL
(Double see)

Cinebench R10 is a Floating Point Workload. so it shows single core/single thread FP performance when run down in the single thread test


----------



## Usario

^ This is true.

I do a mix of integer and FP stuff, but the stuff I do is multithreaded so eight integer cores will serve me well


----------



## hazarada

2x higher potential throughput does not mean 2x more speed tho, finding good uses for 256bit wide fp pipe is difficult(even highly parallel practical applications like rendering don't gain over 20% speed bump from 256bit over 128bit), what BD really needs to speed up is ipc in general and as the flex fpu has been discussed to death what about the other stuff on the chip? from what i remember it was a very wide redesign


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


2x higher potential throughput does not mean 2x more speed tho, finding good uses for 256bit wide fp pipe is difficult(even highly parallel practical applications like rendering don't gain over 20% speed bump from 256bit over 128bit), what BD really needs to speed up is ipc in general and as the flex fpu has been discussed to death what about the other stuff on the chip? from what i remember it was a very wide redesign


A whole bunch of SSSSEEEE1-61 and some KKKKs, oh and can't forget the OOOOO's or the HHHHes.

















Seronx, where's the pick of the new architecture's capabilities? Is it on this thread


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Seronx, where's the pick of the new architecture's capabilities? Is it on this thread










It is here on this thread but I recommend waiting for Interlagos benchmarks and look at the SpecInt/SpecFP(these are single thread as far as I know, only the rates are the multithread)scores compared Magny Cours


----------



## creisti86

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...rocessors.aspx

the fx processors are listed here but for additional info you are required to log in.


----------



## Fr0sty

it only mean one thing









the fx war machine is on full steam


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *creisti86*


http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...rocessors.aspx

the fx processors are listed here but for additional info you are required to log in.


How do we get the proper info to sign in?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


do you really have to ask???


Actually? Yeah I really have to ask. I have never been able to even register with AMD. I've got a CPU to RMA as well and have done everything that the Registration link requires. Still can't get in. Starting to think that AMD only has a site for driver support and that's about it.









~Ceadder


----------



## el gappo

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...foundries.html

Getting closer


----------



## Evil Penguin

About a month and a half to go.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


About a month and a half to go.










Interlagos is supposedly shipping in three days


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Interlagos is supposedly shipping in three days










?!!!? Source?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14435910*
> ?!!!? Source?


http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000505_BKU8925P.shtml


----------



## Evil Penguin

Damn... 16 cores at 2.1GHz using 115w?
Want!
Wouldn't there be more noise about these processors being released Friday?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14437625*
> Damn... 16 cores at 2.1GHz using 115w?
> Want!
> Wouldn't there be more noise about these processors being released Friday?


The noise starts when they start shipping.

Llano's NDA was lifted two days before it was listed on newegg.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14438533*
> Llano's NDA was lifted two days before it was listed on newegg.


Three, just for clarity. NDA lifted June 30 and they hit shelves July 3rd.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14438565*
> Three, just for clarity. NDA lifted June 30 and they hit shelves July 3rd.


My bad.


----------



## Blackops_2

So server CPUs going out this friday? If so reviews should be here within another week or so and it should shed some light theoretically speaking on the desktop products correct?


----------



## el gappo

I wouldn't put much faith in that to be honest.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14438869*
> So server CPUs going out this friday? If so reviews should be here within another week or so and it should shed some light theoretically speaking on the desktop products correct?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14438900*
> I wouldn't put much faith in that to be honest.


NDAs right?
As in reviewers still have to worry about the NDAs


----------



## JF-AMD

I have zero influence and don't get involved in those things. Unfortunately you help one person and you are flooded with requests. I need to stick to my areas.


----------



## Kmon

Hi Ceadder

Try the following link 
http://onlineservices.amd.com/icssb2...se&language=EN

Use IE as your browser and scroll down - You should see the new customer register key

shouldn't have any problems registering


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kmon*


Hi Ceadder

Try the following link 
http://onlineservices.amd.com/icssb2...se&language=EN

Use IE as your browser and scroll down - You should see the new customer register key

shouldn't have any problems registering










+Rep for the info. I appreciate the assist.

It was the Exploder issue. I hate that stupid program and don't ever use it.

~Ceadder


----------



## pioneerisloud

Cleaned. If I see any more of that argument, I'm issuing infractions.


----------



## Benz

Bulldozer/Zambezi models, for those who don't know yet.



No wonder AMD was so slow at developing CPUs, they've been working on K15 for over 6 years.


----------



## Usario

I'd take anything from Wikipedia with a grain of salt. I used to constantly clean all the model number and clock speed BS but I gave up. There can't be a tri-core BD because of the modules.


----------



## Nocturin

If that's actually the case, I'll be looking into the FX-4120 for a first taste of BD. Can't go wrong going from dual core to quad core







.

Now we wait for benchies. I'm glad I'm not upgrading till Q2 2012, give me a lot of time to save and compare!

edit: and if feel like the 4 core will OC like a boss.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I'd take anything from Wikipedia with a grain of salt. I used to constantly clean all the model number and clock speed BS but I gave up. There can't be a tri-core BD because of the modules.


That and because BD is already known to be 4,6,8 and Server series CPUs'. AMD already gave this information out to the tech rags. That doesn't mean that a 3 core is impossible, but it's highly unlikely they put out a 3 core BD, when they could put it out in Llano for FM1 platforms. I don't believe they'd do that either but that socket could run a 3 core if they felt inclined enough.









~Ceadder


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*


That and because BD is already known to be 4,6,8 and Server series CPUs'. AMD already gave this information out to the tech rags. That doesn't mean that a 3 core is impossible, but it's highly unlikely they put out a 3 core BD, when they could put it out in Llano for FM1 platforms. I don't believe they'd do that either but that socket could run a 3 core if they felt inclined enough.









~Ceadder










woot you got the 2000th post!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


woot you got the 2000th post!












I thought someone was replying to argue with my supposition.









~Ceadder


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Bulldozer/Zambezi models, for those who don't know yet.



No wonder AMD was so slow at developing CPUs, they've been working on K15 for over 6 years.










That table is full of crap.


----------



## Lindyrig

Question about the BD chip. For gaming and gaming only, will the BD reduce the bottleneck on games such as SC2, WoW, Crysis 2, RIFT... (if it ever goes to DX11)? I Currently am having a terrible time with SC2 with my crossfire and a 4Ghz 970 BE. Debating if its worth the jump to a 990 board and a BD chip.


----------



## catharsis

no body knows what BD will produce. What is for certain is it will be faster than a phenom II chip because its a new and improved architecture. So worst case it would still bottleneck but less so.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*











I thought someone was replying to argue with my supposition.









~Ceadder










Nope, I agree with your statement. I think the quad core will be the sweet spot for the cheepos like myself. It doesn't make sense to disable 1 core in a module, well unless they need to sell a module that has a defect in 1 core, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lindyrig*


Question about the BD chip. For gaming and gaming only, will the BD reduce the bottleneck on games such as SC2, WoW, Crysis 2, RIFT... (if it ever goes to DX11)? I Currently am having a terrible time with SC2 with my crossfire and a 4Ghz 970 BE. Debating if its worth the jump to a 990 board and a BD chip.


It all depends on the IPC as a I understand it, and if the IPC throughput is there, then the games (past and future) should be able to take advantage of it and theoretically get rid of the the "bottlenecking" (why does that term make me think of two teenage coke bottles?!). Now, if the game is multi-threaded: forgedaboutit!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lindyrig*


Question about the BD chip. For gaming and gaming only, will the BD reduce the bottleneck on games such as SC2, WoW, Crysis 2, RIFT... (if it ever goes to DX11)? I Currently am having a terrible time with SC2 with my crossfire and a 4Ghz 970 BE. Debating if its worth the jump to a 990 board and a BD chip.


It will run better than Phenom II

If you are sticking with AMD then it is totally worth for 990 boards and the BD Chips


----------



## coachmark2

This may interest you guys. I just put it up in the news section, but I figured the bulldozer blog deserves a link:

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...hips-ship.html


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lindyrig*


Question about the BD chip. For gaming and gaming only, will the BD reduce the bottleneck on games such as SC2, WoW, Crysis 2, RIFT... (if it ever goes to DX11)? I Currently am having a terrible time with SC2 with my crossfire and a 4Ghz 970 BE. Debating if its worth the jump to a 990 board and a BD chip.


The bottleneck should (read: 99% probability) be removed.


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coachmark2*


This may interest you guys. I just put it up in the news section, but I figured the bulldozer blog deserves a link:

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...hips-ship.html


Random claims by 'anonymous' sources. I think they are trolling for page hits.


----------



## Nocturin

Thats PC Mag though, I thought they had some credibility?

The information may be incorrect, but isn't this the marketing ramp up to launch? Claims start way out in space about ES chips and clock speeds, then slowly the sources move to more credible sources, layer by layer, then BAM we have product?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Thats PC Mag though, I thought they had some credibility?


Their magazine has some, but the online publication has little more than the likes of WCCF Tech if their claims make no sense and do not come from a defined, reliable source.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRYvfhk7xcs[/ame]

released by amd on you tube "ember 19th"
could mean september 19 november 19 december 19
lower left corner of screen when looking at kids back.


----------



## Hogwasher

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...limited_supply

Maximum PC article about bulldozer release, interesting read!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...limited_supply

Maximum PC article about bulldozer release, interesting read!


All those articles are using this as their source.

They're all saying the same thing, but they don't really have any new information.

I wish we had a reliable source that could confirm an actual release date, wouldn't that be nice?


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


All those articles are using this as their source.

They're all saying the same thing, but they don't really have any new information.

*I wish we had a reliable source that could confirm an actual release date, wouldn't that be nice?*


It'd be nice if we all had as much money as Bill Gates too.

We're all waiting with you...just chill


----------



## Seronx

One day till August 5th!!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


One day till August 5th!!

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3025/lolcv.png


Only 5 back ordered?

You getting 1 of the 5?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Only 5 back ordered?

You getting 1 of the 5?


I'm not rich enough

















$850 would make me go into bankruptcy


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I'm not rich enough

















$850 would make me go into bankruptcy


Don't feel bad. I'm filing next week.









Seriously...









Good thing they can't touch my extra computer funds...I mean, retirement accounts...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I'm not rich enough

















$850 would make me go into bankruptcy


I see, well, which BD chip are you planning on getting when it comes out?


----------



## Usario

I hope something actually happens tomorrow, but there were other websites listing Bulldozer quite a while ago... so I wouldn't necessarily trust these people.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I see, well, which BD chip are you planning on getting when it comes out?


Zambezi 8-core with the lowest TDP and overclock it
I estimate $251-$299 for the low end 8 core

The total system price will be below $700


----------



## 2010rig

PC Mag just lost so much credibility, it's not even funny, can you guys spot all the failed points in this article?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390435,00.asp


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


PC Mag just lost so much credibility, it's not even funny, can you guys spot all the failed points in this article?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390435,00.asp


Lol, that was entertaining.









And the winner of today's Fail Award is PC MAG. Congratulations on having absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


PC Mag just lost so much credibility, it's not even funny, can you guys spot all the failed points in this article?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390435,00.asp


As I said in the other thread you posted that in... that's really the worst "article" I've ever seen.


----------



## pioneerisloud

So do we still have no benchmarks available yet? I'm still wanting to see if it meets or beats Sandy Bridge.


----------



## Tatakai All

All this anticipation is gonna kill me before Bulldozer is even released. Someone do me a favor and put a FX-8150 next to my headstone instead of flowers.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14466495*
> All this anticipation is gonna kill me before Bulldozer is even released. Someone do me a favor and put a FX-8150 next to my headstone instead of flowers.


So, someone can take it?









No, sir

We will bury your computer with you









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14466273*
> So do we still have no benchmarks available yet? I'm still wanting to see if it meets or beats Sandy Bridge.


None yet


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14466636*
> So, someone can take it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, sir
> 
> We will bury your computer with you


LOL! I'm going to need two plots, one for me and one for my PC.

Good thing my girlfriend isn't on OCN if she saw this post I'd be sleeping on the couch tonight.


----------



## 2010rig

JF-AMD - is there any truth to this?
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1084215-xbitlabs-amd-shows-off-opteron-interlagos.html

I don't think this is a rumor, so perhaps you can comment on it.

It's related to servers, which is your area of expertise.


----------



## nub

Charlie posted a piece at SA today claiming Opteron release in 14 days.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Charlie*
> Our sources say that the server variant of bulldozer will be shipping in less time than it takes light to travel 1802617757855.0835 furlongs, and the desktop version follows in mid-September, but NOT on the 19th.


If you do the math that is just over 14 days.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14467996*
> Charlie posted a piece at SA today claiming Opteron release in 14 days.
> 
> If you do the math that is just over 14 days.


Perhaps September 12th for the desktop market?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14468095*
> Perhaps September 12th for the desktop market?


September 12th is a monday

AMD CPUs for (Enthusiast)desktops usually release on Tuesdays

Tuesdays -> Thursdays

2 hours till August 5th for BLT


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14468116*
> September 12th is a monday
> 
> AMD CPUs for (Enthusiast)desktops usually release on Tuesdays
> 
> Tuesdays -> Thursdays
> 
> 2 hours till August 5th for BLT


Would you like a countdown clock?

You're way too excited for a CPU you're not buying.

Besides, you really think that's going to update at midnight?

I would guess it wouldn't update 'till like 9 - 10 a.m. when the shipment arrives.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14468339*
> Would you like a countdown clock?


I would.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14468116*
> September 12th is a monday
> 
> AMD CPUs for (Enthusiast)desktops usually release on Tuesdays
> 
> Tuesdays -> Thursdays
> 
> 2 hours till August 5th for BLT


i remember when thubans were about to release and blt had a similar ETA that wasnt even close,so i doubt they will be selling any of these tomorrow.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14468339*
> Would you like a countdown clock?
> 
> You're way too excited for a CPU you're not buying.
> 
> Besides, you really think that's going to update at midnight?
> 
> I would guess it wouldn't update 'till like 9 - 10 a.m. when the shipment arrives.


I'm always excited about new AMD products. No, I don't think it will update at midnight....August 5th is the day if they ETA'd it right it will go from 1244 incoming to 1239 in stock
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14468437*
> i remember when thubans were about to release and blt had a similar ETA that wasnt even close,so i doubt they will be selling any of these tomorrow.


BLT gets the ETA from the manufacturers, so no idea


----------



## purpleannex

Oh look, who'd have thought it?! It was wrong, but heh, you can commit to buying from us for an indefinite period of time if you like! LMAO


----------



## hazarada

ahh... that's just sad, amd had a window where BD could have been viable but there is no way it'll compete with snbe and with intel pushing for q4 release its gonna be a stillborn chip


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Oh look, who'd have thought it?! It was wrong, but heh, you can commit to buying from us for an indefinite period of time if you like! LMAO











That's not what I'm getting?


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


ahh... that's just sad, amd had a window where BD could have been viable but there is no way it'll compete with snbe and with intel pushing for q4 release its gonna be a stillborn chip


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


JF-AMD - is there any truth to this?
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...nterlagos.html

I don't think this is a rumor, so perhaps you can comment on it.

It's related to servers, which is your area of expertise.


After looking at that post, I'd question it.

BTW, I googled it and got nothing...who is John *Fuente*? Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember seeing anything from anyone at AMD by that name discussing/blogging about the Bulldozer technology. Maybe I'm out of the loop.

Again, thanks to JF-AMD. Just want to let you know that someone here appreciates what you are able to divulge.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


That's not what I'm getting?










Ok, fair enough the stock check is working again here too, but it still says eta today, and theres no stock. It would be suprising if this one shop had availability today, and no other online retailer did in the world... There are a few other e-tailers showing the listing, but they don't show any availability.

I'd agree we can't be far from release for these sellers to list them, but it could be another month or more easily.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


After looking at that post, I'd question it.

BTW, I googled it and got nothing...who is John *Fuente*? Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember seeing anything from anyone at AMD by that name discussing/blogging about the Bulldozer technology. Maybe I'm out of the loop.

Again, thanks to JF-AMD. Just want to let you know that someone here appreciates what you are able to divulge.


Fuente was probably a (stupid) misspelling of Fruehe -- which is JF-AMD's name.


----------



## black96ws6

According to PC Mag, they won't be ready until Sep 26:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp

Quote:



Advanced Micro Devices will release the first Opteron server processors to feature its new Bulldozer cores on Sept. 26, PCMag has learned. AMD's FX-series Bulldozer chips for high-end desktops are also set for release in either September or October, according to a report from DigiTimes.


It does say the desktop versions will be ready in September or October. The "or October" part is scary. Another month slip potentially?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Would you like a countdown clock?.


yes please









Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


According to PC Mag, they won't be ready until Sep 26:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp

It does say the desktop versions will be ready in September or October. The "or October" part is scary. Another month slip potentially?


since when is pcmag a reliable source???


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


It does say the desktop versions will be ready in September or October. The "or October" part is scary. Another month slip potentially?



If there is another month delay.....ok calm down.....

I hope they do not delay Bulldozer again, I hope it is really coming in Sept. I have been wanting to build a new rig since June, the itch is getting to much to handle...but I did hear Intel might have an ointment for that though, if AMD cannot provide the remedy in time


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


since when is pcmag a reliable source???


What's unreliable about it?


----------



## Fr0sty

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390435,00.asp

Quote:



*Regular Bulldozer chips will be AMD's newly designed Accelerated Processing Units (APUs)*, combining processing and graphics capabilities on a single chip (the FX-series chips and server parts based on it will be traditional CPUs)



that's how stupid and unreliable as a news source this rag can be


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Fuente was probably a (stupid) misspelling of Fruehe -- which is JF-AMD's name.


I know. I was just making a point.

Anyone who's used a computer in the past 10 years should be proficient enough to, if they have any doubt about the spelling of the name of the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD, could cut and past his name from any one of his numerous blogs.

Any journalist/writer/editor/publication that is so careless that they can't take 20 seconds to Google him and ensure spelling it properly...is probably careless enough to get facts about products wrong too that take even more research/understanding.

Besides that, it's disrespectful to John. And, I can understand how he must feel about it. I've had people misspell/mispronounce my surname my whole life.

Anyways, I would trust the writer who didn't do something as simple as checking the spelling of his name...about as far as he could throw a Mack truck.

That was the point.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I know. I was just making a point.

Anyone who's used a computer in the past 10 years should be proficient enough to, if they have any doubt about the spelling of the name of the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD, could cut and past his name from any one of his numerous blogs.

Any journalist/writer/editor/publication that is so careless that they can't take 20 seconds to Google him and ensure spelling it properly...is probably careless enough to get facts about products wrong too that take even more research/understanding.

Besides that, it's disrespectful to John. And, I can understand how he must feel about it. I've had people misspell/mispronounce my surname my whole life.

Anyways, I would trust the writer who didn't do something as simple as checking the spelling of his name...about as far as he could throw a Mack truck.

That was the point.


Ah. I agree with that point.


----------



## Seronx

I'll give em till 8pm


----------



## Usario

^ It's 9:30...


----------



## Tatakai All

I'm digging that tie that JF-AMD was wearing in that vid that was posted earlier this week, snazzy.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14480929*
> I'm digging that tie that JF-AMD was wearing in that vid that was posted earlier this week, snazzy.


You know what would've been cooler?

I'm sure you already know.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


You know what would've been cooler?

I'm sure you already know.










If Bulldozer was there wearing a tie?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


ahh... that's just sad, amd had a window where BD could have been viable but there is no way it'll compete with snbe and with intel pushing for q4 release its gonna be a stillborn chip


SBE in Q4. Hmmmmm.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


According to PC Mag, they won't be ready until Sep 26:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp

It does say the desktop versions will be ready in September or October. The "or October" part is scary. Another month slip potentially?


Not sure I believe any of that. But what do I know?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I know. I was just making a point.

Anyone who's used a computer in the past 10 years should be proficient enough to, if they have any doubt about the spelling of the name of the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD, could cut and past his name from any one of his numerous blogs.

Any journalist/writer/editor/publication that is so careless that they can't take 20 seconds to Google him and ensure spelling it properly...is probably careless enough to get facts about products wrong too that take even more research/understanding.

Besides that, it's disrespectful to John. And, I can understand how he must feel about it. I've had people misspell/mispronounce my surname my whole life.

Anyways, I would trust the writer who didn't do something as simple as checking the spelling of his name...about as far as he could throw a Mack truck.

That was the point.


Nobody ever gets the name right.

Officially, it was FrÃ¼he, in Germany it was pronounced "Frew-uh"

Then, in the 1890's we came to the US and it was pronounced "Free-ay". the umlaut disappeared and became "ue".

Then, in the 50's we moved from Chicago to the suburbs and it became "free."

But when I am in Germany, I have to use the original pronunciation - it is rude to make them mispronouce my name when they actually know the right way. In is NEVER spelled right. Typically Freuhe because they think if it sounds like Free it should be FRE....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


I'm digging that tie that JF-AMD was wearing in that vid that was posted earlier this week, snazzy.


I haven't seen the video, it is probably the tie that I bought in China. Nothing worse than landing and realizing that you didn't pack a tie. And I absolutely HATE wearing them. Usually I wear jeans to work most days.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Nobody ever gets the name right.

Officially, it was FrÃ¼he, in Germany it was pronounced "Frew-uh"

Then, in the 1890's we came to the US and it was pronounced "Free-ay". the umlaut disappeared and became "ue".

Then, in the 50's we moved from Chicago to the suburbs and it became "free."

But when I am in Germany, I have to use the original pronunciation - it is rude to make them mispronouce my name when they actually know the right way. In is NEVER spelled right. Typically Freuhe because they think if it sounds like Free it should be FRE....


Indeed I do understand...my surname is German too...father's family emigrated from there in the 18th century. My great aunt went back over there and found that my distant cousins are pig farmers there still. Still farming like my ancestors were there 300 years ago.

I can totally related to the misspell/mispronounce thing. Hardly anyone can pronounce mine right, and only half of the people who try to spell mine from the sound spell it right.

Mine got anglicanized...totally respelled too...originally ended with -aus...

Anyways...if I ever write an article, I will make sure I get your name right









And thanks again for all your insight on things. And, I am looking forward to seeing more on the Bulldozer technology when it hits the market.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

I wanna wear jeans to work most days.

So JF, how have you been? >.>
When are the desktop CPU's gonna be out? <.<
Just kidding (mostly)


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


Indeed I do understand...my surname is German too...father's family emigrated from there in the 18th century. My great aunt went back over there and found that my distant cousins are pig farmers there still. Still farming like my ancestors were there 300 years ago.

I can totally related to the misspell/mispronounce thing. Hardly anyone can pronounce mine right, and only half of the people who try to spell mine from the sound spell it right.

Mine got anglicanized...totally respelled too...originally ended with -aus...

Anyways...if I ever write an article, I will make sure I get your name right









And thanks again for all your insight on things. And, I am looking forward to seeing more on the Bulldozer technology when it hits the market.










Almost exactly the same thing with me, heh.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I wanna wear jeans to work most days.

So JF, how have you been? >.>
When are the desktop CPU's gonna be out? <.<
Just kidding (mostly)










I wear jeans to work daily...finally.









My new job = jeans and a golf shirt and write code/troubleshoot system issues/design and fix DBs

But, I took a $12k a year paycut...aw well







lol


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I wanna wear jeans to work most days.

So JF, how have you been? >.>
When are the desktop CPU's gonna be out? <.<
Just kidding (mostly)










God, JF's got a groupie! lol

HHHmm, interesting, when I search for "Fruehe" in this thread, it gives 12 references. But when I search for my own surname, it comes up with 40! LOL

When I seach the entire website it stops at 1000. JF's goes to 902.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14463815*
> One day till August 5th!!
> 
> http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3025/lolcv.png




Now what?









No new ETA given. All it says is Past Due.


----------



## el gappo

If it were legit amd would of asked them to take it down, it means nothing.


----------



## senna89

AMD bullsozer now must to think is will be exit in the market.
it's only a metropolitan legend now, AMD is too noob for understand that this cpu should have the priority over Liano - the useless !


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14486526*
> 
> 
> Now what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No new ETA given. All it says is Past Due.


i tried this when thubans were launched and BLT seems to just use the date of the next shipment from AMD for all cpu's,so it doesnt mean that the 6200's will be in that shipment.
for instance if you look up 1100T x6 now it shows the same 9-5-11 date for them,same with any amd cpu thats not in stock.


----------



## senna89

859$ for an octo core below or same to a quad intel ?
no thank


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14487124*
> 859$ for an octo core below or same to a quad intel ?
> no thank


3 things
1.) The site isn't legit
2.) The Site isn't legit
3.) They're offering an Opteron CPU which isn't priced the same as a Core i7 or Phenom II x6.
Opteron and Xeon chips easily cost into the $1k range.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14486801*
> AMD bullsozer now must to think is will be exit in the market.
> it's only a metropolitan legend now, AMD is too noob for understand that this cpu should have the priority over Liano - the useless !











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14487124*
> 859$ for an octo core below or same to a quad intel ?
> no thank


Isn't that a 16-core? It's fake anyway, and it's also an Opteron. Server CPUs cost much more on both sides of the isle.


----------



## JF-AMD

When you see those things pop up on random web sites it is typically a bad data feed from their distributor. The disti turns on SKUs they shouldn't and the reseller just takes the whole feed.

The funny thing is that you can't even be sure that the data is real. Sometimes they load with dummy data as a placeholder. I am specifically not looking at the link because I don't want to have to start answering questions about details. But I would be a bit careful on these things.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14486801*
> AMD bullsozer now must to think is will be exit in the market.
> it's only a metropolitan legend now, AMD is too noob for understand that this cpu should have the priority over Liano - the useless !


I sincerely hope you're drunk, because if this is the state of your English when sober, god help you!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14487124*
> 859$ for an octo core below or same to a quad intel ?
> no thank


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14487280*
> 3 things
> 1.) The site isn't legit
> 2.) The Site isn't legit
> 3.) They're offering an Opteron CPU which isn't priced the same as a Core i7 or Phenom II x6.
> Opteron and Xeon chips easily cost into the $1k range.


You forgot 4. it's a 16 core cpu not an 8 core hurr durrr! lol


----------



## Disturbed117

man i cant wait But i will cause i have hopes for amd.... i dont want to break down and get a 2600k.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14486801*
> AMD bullsozer now must to think is will be exit in the market.
> it's only a metropolitan legend now, AMD is too noob for understand that this cpu should have the priority over Liano - the useless !


what is this ? i dont even


----------



## Nocturin

Thank you JF-AMD for your responses and continuing involvment in this communuty.


----------



## Obakemono

Any ideas on how much a socket C32 8-core chip will run? I want to re-build my folding server.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14497085*
> Thank you JF-AMD for your responses and continuing involvment in this communuty.


I, too, really appreciate how JF takes time out of his day to be involved in online enthusiast communities. Let's see someone from Intel care enough about their customers to do that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14498359*
> Any ideas on how much a socket C32 8-core chip will run? I want to re-build my folding server.


If history is any indication, ~$400. I could be wrong


----------



## Phoenixlight

I haven't checked this forum for quite a long time but I thought that the Bulldozer CPU's would be out by the end of July. Have they been delayed? and has a launch date been confirmed yet?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight;14501025*
> I haven't checked this forum for quite a long time but I thought that the Bulldozer CPU's would be out by the end of July. Have they been delayed? and has a launch date been confirmed yet?


On June 1st, it was announced that Bulldozer would be out in 60-90 days.

No launch date has been given. No benchmarks either.


----------



## Homeles

Things are pointing towards a mid September launch.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


On June 1st, it was announced that Bulldozer would be out in 60-90 days.

No launch date has been given. No benchmarks either.


We have always said benchmarks at launch. Why would you expect anything else?


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14505930*
> We have always said benchmarks at launch. Why would you expect anything else?


+1 This


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14505930*
> We have always said benchmarks at launch. Why would you expect anything else?


If he's like 99% of OCN'ers, I'm sure he was wondering if there had been any benchmarks leaked yet. So I let him know that none were available ahead of time.


----------



## Canis-X

@JF-AMD: So, let me ask you a very general question concerning BD. In light of all the ups and downs that we've all seen and experienced......you being in the know.....are you excited for BD's release?


----------



## JF-AMD

The ups and downs that you guys are all talking about were 80% fabricated, so none of that ever impacted me.

My opinion on Bulldozer is exactly the same as it has been.


----------



## Cape Cod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14510591*
> @JF-AMD: So, let me ask you a very general question concerning BD. In light of all the ups and downs that we've all seen and experienced......you being in the know.....are you excited for BD's release?


Yes I am


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cape Cod*


Yes I am










Your name isn't JF-AMD.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14510899*
> The ups and downs that you guys are all talking about were 80% fabricated, so none of that ever impacted me.
> 
> My opinion on Bulldozer is exactly the same as it has been.


so...... what are we talking about here then:









































-OR-







+









LOL


----------



## JF-AMD

I am pretty much expecting what I have always been expecting, no change here.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cape Cod*


Yes I am




















Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am pretty much expecting what I have always been expecting, no change here.


So... 50% increase in throughput?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am pretty much expecting what I have always been expecting, no change here.


Awesome







.

It's how it works with product launches from my company. Just sit, wait, and watch.

It's much more rewarding to be objective as possible and watch the reactions, both sides of the story.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am pretty much expecting what I have always been expecting, no change here.


so... what exactly are you expecting?

It's ok, you can tell us, hardly anyone reads this thread anyway.


----------



## proximo

Here's what he said back on 05/04/11 (which is about as effusive as I've seen him be about BD):

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*

It will be a great product, it will definitely have a big impact on the market. But I don't hype things, BD will live up to everything that we have said about the product.


But he's a server guy. Everything we've learned about the server chips (number of cores within TDP, power management) is going to make an impact in the server world. We've heard really nothing from him about the client side. All we have to go on are unnamed sources at E3 saying the top of the line BD 8 core client chip will be in the $300 range and "aggressively priced". The ~$300 price has been more or less confirmed but the aggressively priced part is yet to be seen. Still, it seems AMD feels they have a winner on their hands. I, for one, can't wait until launch.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *proximo*


Here's what he said back on 05/04/11 (which is about as effusive as I've seen him be about BD):

But he's a server guy. Everything we've learned about the server chips (number of cores within TDP, power management) is going to make an impact in the server world. We've heard really nothing from him about the client side. All we have to go on are unnamed sources at E3 saying the top of the line BD 8 core client chip will be in the $300 range and "aggressively priced". The ~$300 price has been more or less confirmed but the aggressively priced part is yet to be seen. Still, it seems AMD feels they have a winner on their hands. I, for one, can't wait until launch.


I believe AMD has said it will be "aggressively priced". If it's really $320 for the FX-8130P/8150/8150P/8170/whatever the hell the latest rumor is calling the highest end model, then that means nothing but win. I have high expectations. As long as this beats Gulftown all-around (yes, I mean multithreaded AND IPC) it's going to be an excellent value. The only competitor will be the hexacore SB-E... if you call a chip twice the price a competitor.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I believe AMD has said it will be "aggressively priced". If it's really $320 for the FX-8130P/8150/8150P/8170/whatever the hell the latest rumor is calling the highest end model, then that means nothing but win. I have high expectations. As long as this beats Gulftown all-around (yes, I mean multithreaded AND IPC) it's going to be an excellent value. The only competitor will be the hexacore SB-E... if you call a chip twice the price a competitor.


I agree, if it beats Gulftown i'll be extremely happy. I know comparing the number of threads between each CPU is redundant and useless. But seeing as Bulldozer is in a way a physical approach/answer to Hyper threading, it would be a pretty good victory in my book.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14516020*
> I agree, if it beats Gulftown i'll be extremely happy. I know comparing the number of threads between each CPU is redundant and useless. But seeing as Bulldozer is in a way a physical approach/answer to Hyper threading, it would be a pretty good victory in my book.


Honestly, though, BD needs to have pretty good IPC and/or or high clocks (avg >4.5 GHz OC) to beat Gulftown. 8 BD cores aren't quite near 6 Intel cores theoretically... we'll have to see how IPC and clocks fare.

BD module scaling : 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
Gulftown core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 755
SB core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 = 490
SB-E core scaling w/ HT = (see Gulftown)
BD-E module scaling: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 + 160 = 850
IB-E core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 + 100 + 95 = 950

(each number is representative of 1% of the performance of one theoretical core/module, not factoring in IPC or clock speed, both of which would need to be multiplied by the number given to get a general idea of performance difference between each chip in heavily multi-threaded situations)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14516536*
> Honestly, though, BD needs to have pretty good IPC and/or or high clocks (avg >4.5 GHz OC) to beat Gulftown. 8 BD cores aren't quite near 6 Intel cores theoretically... we'll have to see how IPC and clocks fare.
> 
> BD module scaling : 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
> Gulftown core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 755
> SB core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 = 490
> SB-E core scaling w/ HT = (see Gulftown)
> BD-E module scaling: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 + 160 = 850
> IB-E core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 + 100 + 95 = 950
> 
> (each number is representative of 1% of the performance of one theoretical core/module, not factoring in IPC or clock speed, both of which would need to be multiplied by the number given to get a general idea of performance difference between each chip in heavily multi-threaded situations)


Can any of these numbers be backed up with any real data?

Or are these just made up theoretical numbers?

I know JF-AMD mentioned these numbers before, but AFAIK they were made to be used as an example.

*How can you predict these?* What if 3D transistors improve HT's capabilities?
Quote:


> SB-E core scaling w/ HT = (see Gulftown)
> BD-E module scaling: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 + 160 = 850
> IB-E core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 + 100 + 95 = 950


*serious questions*


----------



## hazarada

these numbers make no sense
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14516020*
> But seeing as Bulldozer is in a way a physical approach/answer to Hyper threading


its not. HT keeps cores fed better under heavily threaded situations while BD's 8 cores are just 8 cores


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14516536*
> Honestly, though, BD needs to have pretty good IPC and/or or high clocks (avg >4.5 GHz OC) to beat Gulftown. 8 BD cores aren't quite near 6 Intel cores theoretically... we'll have to see how IPC and clocks fare.
> 
> BD module scaling : 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
> Gulftown core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 755
> SB core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 = 490
> SB-E core scaling w/ HT = (see Gulftown)
> BD-E module scaling: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 + 160 = 850
> IB-E core scaling w/ HT: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 + 100 + 95 = 950
> 
> (each number is representative of 1% of the performance of one *theoretical* core/module, not factoring in IPC or clock speed, both of which would need to be multiplied by the number given to get a general idea of performance difference between each chip in heavily multi-threaded situations)


There is your answer 2010. Also, didn't Intel already throw around numbers concerning 3D transistors? I think it was 35%? It's all a numbers game anyway.


----------



## hazarada

what intel said was that the new process result would yield either 37% more speed OR 50% less power under certain specific loads, this includes benefits from dye shrink but ofc it got misquoted all over everywhere and now there are 30w 5ghz quad ivy bridges on the way


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;14496386*
> what is this ? i dont even


I could be wrong but I believe that AMD separates their Chipset tasks by divisions.

Server(Opteron)

Desktop (Zambezi)

Small system (Llano)-I know the term I want to use but brain is stuck in neutral at the moment.









So what he's saying makes even less sense when you think in compartmentalized terms appropriate to this process.

Of course I could be wrong.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89;14486801*
> AMD bullsozer now must to think is will be exit in the market.
> it's only a metropolitan legend now, AMD is too noob for understand that this cpu should have the priority over Liano - the useless !


LOL wut???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14511029*
> so...... what are we talking about here then:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -OR-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL


LOL


----------



## jck

I don't see how you put up with it, JF-AMD. You have the patience of a saint.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14516984*
> Can any of these numbers be backed up with any real data?
> 
> Or are these just made up theoretical numbers?
> 
> I know JF-AMD mentioned these numbers before, but AFAIK they were made to be used as an example.
> 
> *How can you predict these?* What if 3D transistors improve HT's capabilities?
> 
> *serious questions*


Read the note at the bottom. It's all theoretical, but each number represents 1% of the performance of a baseline physical Intel core with no HyperThreading. The numbers decreased by 5 for each extra core/module because cores do not scale linearly. As I said, if you multiply these all by the IPC of the architecture, then multiply by clock speed, you get numbers that can be used for comparative purposes but otherwise mean nothing. And yes, many of the numbers were taken from one of JF-AMD's posts simply because I myself would not know how well BD's modules scale. The reason why I'm pointing this out is because core scaling is a very important part of this architecture. It's the whole reasoning behind the M-SPACE design -- adding an extra somewhat dependent integer core would only take up 5% of the die, so that's probably the most efficient way to increase processor performance.

I don't see how 3D transistors would help because HT is just shoving more and more through the same pipelines (that's why in some cases it can actually slightly decrease performance). Saying HT makes a 30% performance boost was very generous anyway. In Cinebench it only makes a 10% difference.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14517053*
> these numbers make no sense
> 
> its not. HT keeps cores fed better under heavily threaded situations while BD's 8 cores are just 8 cores


You need to read the note at the bottom of my post. I put it there for a reason.

HT doesn't keep cores "fed better" under heavily threaded situations. HT only works when one of an integer core's pipelines is either idle or not being fully utilized, which is why in a well coded program that properly takes advantage of available resources it shows very little to no benefit and in some programs it can actually decrease performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14517101*
> what intel said was that the new process result would yield either 37% more speed OR 50% less power under certain specific loads, this includes benefits from dye shrink but ofc it got misquoted all over everywhere and now there are 30w 5ghz quad ivy bridges on the way


TDP increases when you overclock. A 5 GHz Ivy Bridge would probably be... eh... 80W or 95W maybe. Still pretty good. We'll have to see if Intel's predictions hold true and what will happen with BD-E.

Also, the rumor mill says NGBD is going to use 14nm 3D transistors.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


HT doesn't keep cores "fed better" under heavily threaded situations.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


HT only works when one of an integer core's pipelines is either idle or not being fully utilized,


do you understand how you just contradicted yourself?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


which is why in a well coded program that properly takes advantage of available resources it shows very little to no benefit


do you have an example of these "well coded programs"? and i wouldn't call a ~10% performance boost in rendering/image processing/simulation/archiving very little to none

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


and in some programs it can actually decrease performance.


 yes in programs that cant or wont(usually the latter) make use of multi threadedness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


TDP increases when you overclock. A 5 GHz Ivy Bridge would probably be... eh... 80W or 95W maybe.


it would be advisable to read before replying

i did not mean to dedicate this post at first but there's just too much wrong coming from that pipe


----------



## Nocturin

meh. take it to pm.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


do you understand how you just contradicted yourself?


I did not. If the program is fully utilizing the core, HyperThreading will not work well. AT BEST 10%, usually much less. That half second in 3dsmax isn't worth $100.

Quote:



do you have an example of these "well coded programs"? and i wouldn't call a ~10% performance boost in rendering/image processing/simulation/archiving very little to none


I'll attach an image of programs that show a very minimal increase from HyperThreading. Black = 2600k, Blue = 2500k. And these are all from AnandTech Bench... so most of them do not really represent real world performance (either love HyperThreading or are crappy dual threaded 32-bit pieces of crap... though some of them are good, like 3dsmax). Also, in every game I can think of, a 2600k will get you like 1 fps more than a 2500k. And also a 2600k has a higher stock clock speed and more cache than a 2500k, which contributes as much if not more to the difference than HT.

Quote:



yes in programs that cant or wont(usually the latter) make use of multi threadedness


Or programs that will already take advantage of the all the pipelines.

Quote:



it would be advisable to read before replying


It would be advisable to tell me why you felt the need to say that.

Also, the <10% boost of HyperThreading is negated because of this: if you turn off HT, you can overclock <10% higher!


----------



## Canis-X

Wow, and the mods just finished cleaning this thread from the last OT rant....hmmmm


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Wow, and the mods just finished cleaning this thread from the last OT rant....hmmmm


Tensions are high.







.

C'MON AMD, gimme sumtin, small I'll take it!


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Tensions are high.







.

C'MON AMD, gimme sumtin, small I'll take it!


There is no reason for anyone to be in a tizzy about this subject. Like I have suggested before, sit back and wait, ok?
I'm waiting just as long as everyone else that wants to buy BD. I really would like to see how it folds SMP, because I'm itching to rebuild my server with 2 C32 BDs.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


There is no reason for anyone to be in a tizzy about this subject. Like I have suggested before, sit back and wait, ok?
I'm waiting just as long as everyone else that wants to buy BD. I really would like to see how it folds SMP, because I'm itching to rebuild my server with 2 C32 BDs.










I agree, but where would the forums be without a match of the wits?

I'm also excited, but I'm not building a rig till 2012, so I'll have just enough time to enjoy it before the world ends







.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


There is no reason for anyone to be in a tizzy about this subject. Like I have suggested before, sit back and wait, ok?
I'm waiting just as long as everyone else that wants to buy BD. I really would like to see how it folds SMP, because I'm itching to rebuild my server with 2 C32 BDs.










Just because you're ok with delays, and can sit back and wait, clearly not everyone else can, and you shouldn't expect them to just because you say so.

Some have been hearing about BD since 2006/7, expected it in 2009, patiently waited for it to come out in June 2011. I'm being very liberal in saying patiently, considering how many rumors there were leading up to June.

We are in day #70 from when the 60-90 Day announcement was made at Computex, and yet we still have no release date, and what's everybody doing? Waiting.

If I didn't have my current rig, I'm sure I'd be pretty impatient too, and most likely have jumped ship already. Just the reality.

My 2nd rig is still on hold, and I will keep waiting. But the wife is not happy, as she's been waiting for her new computer for a few months now. The 3800+ is just not cutting it anymore. I've explained to her that right now is not the time to buy, but I've been saying that since late last year.

When is this Bulldozer coming out? She asks. I have begun to sound like a liar now, and quite frankly, she probably thinks that I don't want to build her a computer.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Just because you're ok with delays, and can sit back and wait, clearly not everyone else can, and you shouldn't expect them to just because you say so.

Some have been hearing about BD since 2006/7, expected it in 2009, patiently waited for it to come out in June 2011. I'm being very liberal in saying patiently, considering how many rumors there were leading up to June.

We are in day #70 from when the 60-90 Day announcement was made at Computex, and yet we still have no release date, and what's everybody doing? Waiting.

If I didn't have my current rig, I'm sure I'd be pretty impatient too, and most likely have jumped ship already. Just the reality.

My 2nd rig is still on hold, and I will keep waiting. But the wife is not happy, as she's been waiting for her new computer for a few months now. The 3800+ is just not cutting it anymore. I've explained to her that right now is not the time to buy, but I've been saying that since late last year.

When is this Bulldozer coming out? She asks. I have begun to sound like a liar now, and quite frankly, she probably thinks that I don't want to build her a computer.


Death and taxes my friend....death and taxes. Whatever anyone's opinions on the matter are, no-one is getting anything out of AMD until release so all the arguing and bickering and constant whining about this, that and the other is not getting anyone anywhere but to be labeled as such.......in other words, just let it go/keep it to yourself and if you can't do either, go buy a SB and be done with it.

Cheers!!


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


_Just because you're ok with delays, and can sit back and wait, clearly not everyone else can, and you shouldn't expect them to just because you say so.
_

*Yes I am fine with it, and this forum is not the place to vent about it if it does bother a poster, OCN has a rant section.*

Some have been hearing about BD since 2006/7, expected it in 2009, patiently waited for it to come out in June 2011. I'm being very liberal in saying patiently, considering how many rumors there were leading up to June.

*That timeline is about right, since it takes years to develop a processor from rough concept to finished product. And the process is not perfect either.*

We are in day #70 from when the 60-90 Day announcement was made at Computex, and yet we still have no release date, and what's everybody doing? Waiting.

*Including me. *

If I didn't have my current rig, I'm sure I'd be pretty impatient too, and most likely have jumped ship already. Just the reality.

My 2nd rig is still on hold, and I will keep waiting. But the wife is not happy, as she's been waiting for her new computer for a few months now. The 3800+ is just not cutting it anymore. I've explained to her that right now is not the time to buy, but I've been saying that since late last year.

When is this Bulldozer coming out? She asks. I have begun to sound like a liar now, and quite frankly, she probably thinks that I don't want to build her a computer.


Why not build her an Intel rig? I mean you could not wait for BD, but you make your spouse wait for it?


----------



## 2010rig

I've waited this far, not going to build SB at this point.

The wait continues. ( I guess )


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I've waited this far, not going to build SB at this point.

The wait continues. ( I guess )


There. Doesn't that feel better?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


There. Doesn't that feel better?












Basically, in my original reply I was just explaining why some people are getting impatient. I'm sure they all have their reasons. Wasn't meant to be whiney, though it might've came across that way.

Glad I got that off my chest though.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I did not. If the program is fully utilizing the core, HyperThreading will not work well. AT BEST 10%, usually much less. That half second in 3dsmax isn't worth $100.


that would be nice if there was this awesome program that could fully utilize the core. I never said 2600k is cost effective but neither is 2500k compared to the low end sb pentiums

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I'll attach an image of programs that show a very minimal increase from HyperThreading. Black = 2600k, Blue = 2500k. And these are all from AnandTech Bench... so most of them do not really represent real world performance (either love HyperThreading or are crappy dual threaded 32-bit pieces of crap... though some of them are good, like 3dsmax).


But the increase is there, considering the amount of transistor difference between SB ht and non ht enabled cores(which is none) its quite significant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Also, in every game I can think of, a 2600k will get you like 1 fps more than a 2500k. And also a 2600k has a higher stock clock speed and more cache than a 2500k, which contributes as much if not more to the difference than HT


which is relevant because games are notoriously well threaded

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Or programs that will already take advantage of the all the pipelines.


which are..?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


It would be advisable to tell me why you felt the need to say that.


your note doesn't help with these numbers making sense

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Also, the <10% boost of HyperThreading is negated because of this: if you turn off HT, you can overclock <10% higher!


not really...


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


that would be nice if there was this awesome program that could fully utilize the core. I never said 2600k is cost effective but neither is 2500k compared to the low end sb pentiums


SB Pentiums are a terrible deal when you can get an Athlon II X4 for the same price

Quote:



But the increase is there, considering the amount of transistor difference between SB ht and non ht enabled cores(which is none) its quite significant


The increase is usually very small.

Quote:



which is relevant because games are notoriously well threaded


I never said they were, but almost everyone backing Intel points out gaming performance, so I figured I should point that out.

Quote:



which are..?


One example is 3dsmax, where the difference is <5%.

Think of it this way.

You're trying to flush a ton of random stuff down a toilet for whatever reason (please do not take this the wrong way, I'm not referencing what you think I'm referencing when I talk about flushing a toilet). You can choose to have the toilet flush small amounts quickly, or you can choose to have it flush large amounts more slowly and risk it getting clogged. It may or may not move very slightly faster if you do the latter, which is HyperThreading.

Quote:



your note doesn't help with these numbers making sense


I've explained it twice.

Quote:



not really...


I don't think it's really deniable that you can get better overclocks if you turn off HT.

And even if if all of the above is arguable, that doesn't change the fact that the concept of Bulldozer is much more efficient.


----------



## hazarada

i work with max on a daily basis and saying the performance increase is <5% is just not true, and im definitely not an intel backer. If you go back and check you'll find that what im saying is that bulldosers 8 cores arent in any relation to intels HT.. if AMD wanted to do ht they would just do ht


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


i work with max on a daily basis and saying the performance increase is <5% is just not true, and im definitely not an intel backer. If you go back and check you'll find that what im saying is that bulldosers 8 cores arent in any relation to intels HT.. if AMD wanted to do ht they would just do ht


I posted proof that most of the time 3dsmax sees a ~5% benefit from HyperThreading.


----------



## catharsis

the wait is killing me at this point. I'm about to crack and buy SB. I smell another delay for BD being as its 20 days till the deadline date AMD had set.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


the wait is killing me at this point. I'm about to crack and buy SB. I smell another delay for BD being as its 20 days till the deadline date AMD had set.


Even if they miss August it is still going to come sometime within Q3 (i.e by the end of September).

AMD has confirmed shipping to retailers and OEMs this month meaning that the CPU is finished and heading to selves. And while that doesn't guarantee launch this month, at this point I would find it very hard to believe they will miss Q3.


----------



## rquinn19

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


the wait is killing me at this point. I'm about to crack and buy SB. I smell another delay for BD being as its 20 days till the deadline date AMD had set.


...people suggested I wait when I bought my 1055T 9 months ago...BD is around the corner they've been saying since forever

If you need an upgrade go ahead and upgrade I say


----------



## CryWin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


the wait is killing me at this point. I'm about to crack and buy SB. I smell another delay for BD being as its 20 days till the deadline date AMD had set.


 This (except the buy SB part) I'm not very happy with AMD right now, not happy at all.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14525930*
> the wait is killing me at this point. I'm about to crack and buy SB. I smell another delay for BD being as its 20 days till the deadline date AMD had set.


I'm with ya; I'm pretty much smashing my head against a brick wall at this point. If Bulldozer comes out and it's not better than Sandy Bridge, or at least competitive, I'm going to be pissed because I could've bought it by now! Grrrrrrrr


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527260*
> I'm with ya; I'm pretty much smashing my head against a brick wall at this point. If Bulldozer comes out and it's not better than Sandy Bridge, or at least competitive, I'm going to be pissed because I could've bought it by now! Grrrrrrrr


Remember, that patience is a virtue.

Instead of being stuck on a P Series chipset, instead, now; if you went Sandy Bridge, you could get a Z Series chipset.
Even possibly have one that supports Ivy Bridge.

I'm not saying that's what anyone should do. Though, you should never hold things to such a negative light.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527260*
> I'm with ya; I'm pretty much smashing my head against a brick wall at this point. If Bulldozer comes out and it's not better than Sandy Bridge, or at least competitive, I'm going to be pissed because I could've bought it by now! Grrrrrrrr


If BD fails I'm going to have to somehow find a way to afford SB-E or just buy an old i7 980 for cheap while they're still in stock (after SB-E comes out).

The waiting game never ends... I remember when the X6 was supposedly just a filler to hold us over until an early 2011 release of Bulldozer. I might've spent the extra $ on an X6 back then if I could foretell the future.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14527369*
> Remember, that patience is a virtue.
> 
> Instead of being stuck on a P Series chipset, instead, now; if you went Sandy Bridge, you could get a Z Series chipset.
> Even possibly have one that supports Ivy Bridge.
> 
> I'm not saying that's what anyone should do. Though, you should never hold things to such a negative light.


I know patience is a virtue, and I know that there's always a silver lining. )P67 chipset versus Z68 chipset, for example.)
I'm just going to be annoyed if I've waited this long for crap.








Come on AMD!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14527555*
> If BD fails I'm going to have to somehow find a way to afford SB-E or just buy an old i7 980 for cheap while they're still in stock (after SB-E comes out).
> 
> The waiting game never ends... I remember when the X6 was supposedly just a filler to hold us over until an early 2011 release of Bulldozer. I might've spent the extra $ on an X6 back then if I could foretell the future.


Why can't you tell the future!? D:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527560*
> I know patience is a virtue, and I know that there's always a silver lining. )P67 chipset versus Z68 chipset, for example.)
> I'm just going to be annoyed if I've waited this long for crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on AMD!


I kind of feel bad for a lot of people who bought 990FX motherboards already. A ton of better motherboards are going to come out as we get closer to BD's release (ASRock's already released their Fatal1ty). We'll probably see some G1 boards from Gigabyte, the Crosshair V Extreme from ASUS, maybe a Big Bang board from MSI (hopefully it won't have EXPLODING MOSFETS!!!).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527560*
> Why can't you tell the future!? D:


I forgot my magic eight ball on the subway... haven't had luck in getting it back. I heard someone made millions off penny stocks that a magic eight ball told him to buy, so... I'm SOL T_T


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527560*
> Why can't you tell the future!? D:


Only Seronx can!

Oh wait...


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14525085*
> if AMD wanted to do ht they would just do ht


That's what she said.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Blackops_2

I had to buy a board for the 955, the sabertooth still seems like a good price/performance board. So luckily I haven't had the 990x and been waiting for a while. I'm still eager to hear of release date and Benchmarks though.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usario;14527581*
> i kind of feel bad for a lot of people who bought 990fx motherboards already. A ton of better motherboards are going to come out as we get closer to bd's release (asrock's already released their fatal1ty). We'll probably see some g1 boards from gigabyte, the crosshair v extreme from asus, maybe a big bang board from msi (hopefully it won't have exploding mosfets!!!).


Exploding mosfets would really accent the whole awesome theme/motif.
Quote:


> I forgot my magic eight ball on the subway... Haven't had luck in getting it back. I heard someone made millions off penny stocks that a magic eight ball told him to buy, so... I'm sol T_T


T~T


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14527647*
> Only Seronx can!
> 
> Oh wait...











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14527715*
> t~t


Yeah... Big Bang... exploding MOSFETs... lol


----------



## xd_1771

That would be another 3 pages recklessly taken out.
To those involved in creating and discussing the analysis, please be reminded that it is important on overclock.net that we back up our analyses with sources, and provide information that is clear and understood by everybody. If you are unable to do that when posting your content/analyses, then don't post your content/analyses here. It is only a cause for trouble and confusion among the many. In addition, we really cannot extrapolate the performance out of a simple 35% or 50% value that is very vague. We could end up with values that may be rendered useless during actual release and again only a cause for trouble.

Anyways, thread reopened for discussion.


----------



## Canis-X

Thanks xd_1771


----------



## Blackops_2

http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/

Not sure how accurate that chart is, but it would be very interesting if a FX-8170 is clocked at 3.9Ghz out of the gate.


----------



## Nocturin

it's a repost of some other fud that was posted before, unfortunately







.


----------



## iggydogg

Thanks *xd_1771!!!*

Heres another quote from an AMD exec(Rick Bergman)
Quote:


> AMD this quarter will release server and desktop chips based on its new Bulldozer architecture, which has been in development for around five years. The Opteron server chip based on Bulldozer, codenamed Interlagos, has up to *16 cores and will be up to 40 percent faster than existing chips with up to 12 cores,* while consuming the same amount of power, Bergman said. The desktop chips include up to eight cores and will be used in high end desktops aimed at uses such as gaming.


Source


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14535469*
> That would be another 3 pages recklessly taken out.
> To those involved in creating and discussing the analysis, please be reminded that it is important on overclock.net that we back up our analyses with sources, and provide information that is clear and understood by everybody. If you are unable to do that when posting your content/analyses, then don't post your content/analyses here. It is only a cause for trouble and confusion among the many. In addition, we really cannot extrapolate the performance out of a simple 35% or 50% value that is very vague. We could end up with values that may be rendered useless during actual release and again only a cause for trouble.
> 
> Anyways, thread reopened for discussion.


I was able to follow it...but I'm also a little off my rocker.








Oh well, I guess _even though_ I wanted to see where Seronx was going, it was not backed up.

Any new information from anyone before I explode from waiting?







+


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14536117*
> http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/
> 
> Not sure how accurate that chart is, but it would be very interesting if a FX-8170 is clocked at 3.9Ghz out of the gate.


That table is bullcrap. 200 MHz turbo on the quad core and 900 MHz turbo on the eight core? Yeah, sure.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14537719*
> That table is bullcrap. 200 MHz turbo on the quad core and 900 MHz turbo on the eight core? Yeah, sure.


I figured it was. Didn't think they could even get clock speeds up that high at launch.


----------



## nub

!!!! First glimpse of a bulldozer in the wild!!!








http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah/s...hostid=5747954


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14540322*
> I figured it was. Didn't think they could even get clock speeds up that high at launch.


I wouldn't doubt it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14540385*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!!! First glimpse of a bulldozer in the wild!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah/show_host_detail.php?hostid=5747954


Is that good, bad, or inconclusive?


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Is that good, bad, or inconclusive?


I have no idea. Hopefully somebody who crunches for [email protected] will take a look at the results and give us all some feedback.


----------



## Blackops_2

I was under assumption a while back anyway that they were having cache problems, and only had limiting clock speeds. Of course things have changed now, but 3.9 seems a bit too skeptical.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> AMD this quarter will release server and desktop chips based on its new Bulldozer architecture, which has been in development for around five years. The Opteron server chip based on Bulldozer, codenamed Interlagos, has up to 16 cores and will be up to *40 percent faster than existing chips with up to 12 cores, while consuming the same amount of power*, Bergman said. The desktop chips include up to eight cores and will be used in high end desktops aimed at uses such as gaming.


Definitely a good value to compare with, not vague at all









---

Notice that the [email protected] validation was made back in January 2011
Looks like the ES have been out for a long time?

---

Apparently, *Processors based on the Bulldozer architecture are now on sale!*
Sort of.
This site lists it as drop-shipping from manufacturer - which means AMD ships it directly to the customers. Interesting.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I posted proof that most of the time 3dsmax sees a ~5% benefit from HyperThreading.


your "proof" consists of render times less then half a minute, a good portion of that time is spent in the few seconds for scene preparation which is almost exclusively single threaded. this is why you see the shift to greater gain as render times get longer. a regular production draft takes at least a minute to render, final images much, much longer. people put too much trust in sites such as anand to convey useful information, fortunately anybody who actually uses max and sees that bench result wont make the same mistake


----------



## senna89

any news or rumor about the performance of bulldozer ?


----------



## linkin93

Insert JF-AMD saying "I don't comment on rumours" here. We won't know anything until NDA is up.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Definitely a good value to compare with, not vague at all










Yep,got to love how the PR dept words things
say just enough,but still keep everyone in the dark and guessing









Quote:



40 percent *faster* than existing chips with up to 12 cores, while consuming the same amount of power



Quote:



Quoting Thomas Seifert, interim CEO and CFO at AMD, during yesterdays earnings call:
"The Interlagos platform is our first server offering, optimized for today's cloud datacenters
and the architecture excels at compute-intensive and *HPC workloads,* where it will deliver 
up to 35% *performance* improvements compared to our current offerings."



Quote:



"From a performance standpoint, if you compare our 16-core Interlagos to our current 12-core 
AMD Opteron 6100-series processors (code named "Magny Cours") we estimate that customers will 
see up to 50% more *performance* from 33% more cores.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


Yep,got to love how the PR dept words things
say just enough,but still keep everyone in the dark and guessing










They'll say just enough to hype things up, without being clear.

It's just how AMD rolls I guess. MOAR Cores must be better, right?!

And people buy into it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


8 cores in my gaming rig? Ah, yes sir.

I don't care if games don't use em all, 8 cores just sounds so sick.


Their marketing department also knows how to hype things up, just look at how they're marketing the memory with the most horrible timings.

Quote:



*'Ultra Pro Gaming'* DIMM working at 1600 MHz (11-11-11)


In this case, higher isn't better, but the un-informed will look at it and be like WOW 11-11-11 and it's *Ultra Pro Gaming*!

But when it comes to giving us important information like a simple release date, that's no where to be found, and is strictly confidential.


----------



## Homeles

More cores are better. I mean, if the total intructions per processor are higher in Bulldozer than they are in Sandy Bridge, Bulldozer's the better processor. If they put more total processing power in the same die space, they win from a raw performance perspective.

Lack of support of lazy software developers is the problem. It's pathetic to see modern game engines that don't support more than one core or thread (or even two). But that's not the fault of AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14545986*
> More cores are better. I mean, *if the total intructions per processor are higher in Bulldozer than they are in Sandy Bridge, Bulldozer's the better processor.* If they put more total processing power in the same die space, they win from a raw performance perspective.
> 
> Lack of support of lazy software developers is the problem. It's pathetic to see modern game engines that don't support more than one core or thread (or even two). But that's not the fault of AMD.


Notice those 2 big IF's, which are unknown right now.

I've said it before that Bulldozer should be a folding beast, and will do well in rendering, and with highly threaded programs ( which are very few. )

As far as gaming goes, more cores are not the answer, since *most* games do not utilize more than 4 cores.

On OCN, most rigs are gaming oriented, and right now, the 2500K is the best bang for buck CPU. I wonder how the BD quad will do against it.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14546157*
> Notice those 2 big IF's, which are unknown right now.
> 
> I've said it before that Bulldozer should be a folding beast, and will do well in rendering, and with highly threaded programs ( which are very few. )
> 
> As far as gaming goes, more cores are not the answer, since *most* games do not utilize more than 4 cores.
> 
> On OCN, most rigs are gaming oriented, and right now, the 2500K is the best bang for buck CPU. I wonder how the BD quad will do against it.


Won't the FX-4000 series going to go up against the Core i3 and non-K Core i5s?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln;14547457*
> Won't the FX-4000 series going to go up against the Core i3 and non-K Core i5s?


I couldn't tell ya, we don't have confirmed pricing, IF this is correct, it's going up against a 2500K at the $220 price point.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-FX-Series%20FX-4110.html

http://whatswithjeff.com/amd-bulldozer-price-llano-price/

I'm just comparing 4 core vs 4 core in the $220 price point, based on what we know, but like I said, we don't know for sure if these prices are correct.

And please, I don't want to hear about modules, I know all about them, AMD is marketing these processors as 8 core, 6 core, 4 core.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14540385*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!!! First glimpse of a bulldozer in the wild!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah/show_host_detail.php?hostid=5747954


If [email protected] is another Stanford folder...







Takes forever for my [email protected] to complete one task. That thing put up 11 of them if my count is correct.









How that compares to previous AMD Server CPUs' is another matter.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14547485*
> I couldn't tell ya, we don't have confirmed pricing, IF this is correct, it's going up against a 2500K at the $220 price point.
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-FX-Series%20FX-4110.html
> 
> http://whatswithjeff.com/amd-bulldozer-price-llano-price/
> 
> I'm just comparing 4 core vs 4 core in the $220 price point, based on what we know, but like I said, we don't know for sure if these prices are correct.
> 
> And please, I don't want to hear about modules, I know all about them, AMD is marketing these processors as 8 core, 6 core, 4 core.


Those are very tight prices. $220 for the four core, $240 for the six core. The six core looks like a much more attractive buy.


----------



## Kmon

It appears that AMD is considering including a liquid cooler with the top end Bulldozer

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/coolers/display/20110811072448_AMD_Considers_Equipping_FX_Chips_with_Liquid_Cooling_Solution.html


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14548307*
> It appears that AMD is considering including a liquid cooler with the top end Bulldozer
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/coolers/display/20110811072448_AMD_Considers_Equipping_FX_Chips_with_Liquid_Cooling_Solution.html


Saw this rumor awhile back. I so hope it would be an optional package deal as there isn't a self-contained unit made that can outperform a properly installed custom loop, and I really don't want to have another HSF/cooler sitting in my parts bin.

Still chomping at the bit waiting to see what the FX-8150/8170 can do.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14546157*
> As far as gaming goes, more cores are not the answer, since *most* games do not utilize more than 4 cores.


Well, more cores would be a good answer if the gaming industry would support them.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14549251*
> Well, more cores would be a good answer if the gaming industry would support them.


They're warming up to it as time progresses, albeit terribly slow.


----------



## KamuiRSX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14549300*
> They're warming up to it as time progresses, albeit terribly slow.


That's the truth. Hell, I think we're just starting to get games that can run on Quads and we're almost up to 8 cores. I say almost because Bulldozer hasn't launched yet


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kmon*


It appears that AMD is considering including a liquid cooler with the top end Bulldozer

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/coolers..._Solution.html











That would help explain why the top-end Bulldozer will be coming in a big metal box... closed loops suck compared to real loops, but still much better than AMD's current stock coolers and even Intel's Extreme Edition HSF.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


Well, more cores would be a good answer if the gaming industry would support them.


Some games like BF3 do. There becomes a point where things like games simply cannot take advantage of more cores, though... but we haven't hit it yet, at least not in the desktop market. Games usually don't properly use hardware because most of them are crappy console parts that are limited to the weird Cell CPU (unusual core design, so there's technically eight "cores") and GeForce 7800 in the PS3 and tri-core IBM and Radeon X1900 in the Xbox 360


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln*


Those are very tight prices. $220 for the four core, $240 for the six core. The six core looks like a much more attractive buy.


Yep, a mere $20 between them, the hex is the better option.

My wild guess is that the 4 core will be closer to $199 if it can't match or beat the 2500K.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kmon*


It appears that AMD is considering including a liquid cooler with the top end Bulldozer

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/coolers..._Solution.html











I was just about to post this, LOL.

JF-AMD can you ask your buddies to consider packaging an *OEM processor with NO heat sink at all*, and pass the savings onto us.

Most of the true enthusiasts will not use A) The stock cooler B) An H50 type cooler. I'd rather just buy my own, while picking up the chip cheaper.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KamuiRSX*


That's the truth. Hell, I think we're just starting to get games that can run on Quads and we're almost up to 8 cores. I say almost because Bulldozer hasn't launched yet










And that was my point, a Quad is pretty much all that's needed for *gaming today*, as of right now the 2500K is the best bang for buck CPU, and I wonder how the BD quad will do against it.

That's going to be an interesting match up in the $200 - $220 range.


----------



## Usario

Rumors have been saying the quad core will be $190.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Yep, a mere $20 between them, the hex is the better option.

My wild guess is that the 4 core will be closer to $199 if it can't match or beat the 2500K.

I was just about to post this, LOL.

JF-AMD can you ask your buddies to consider packaging an *OEM processor with NO heat sink at all*, and pass the savings onto us.

Most of the true enthusiasts will not use A) The stock cooler B) An H50 type cooler. I'd rather just buy my own, while picking up the chip cheaper.

And that was my point, a Quad is pretty much all that's needed for *gaming today*, as of right now the 2500K is the best bang for buck CPU, and I wonder how the BD quad will do against it.

That's going to be an interesting match up in the $200 - $220 range.


As long as the warranty wasn't affected, I would rater buy an no hsf proc, good idea.
.
The gaming of tomorrow will be more multi threaded. Quad cores just came out what, 2years ago? Games today are just now starting to make advantage of 4 cores.

In two years I'll have games that support 6 or more cores and use them more efficiently. There's even hope I'll be able to wait another 5 years before a new rig. SB is qualified for that, but I want at least 6 cores and I plan to spend 350 or so on a processor. I want to see how intel continues their pricing scheme. It could be an interesting compitition. That's bang for my buck







. Lots f value in prepping for gaming of the future


----------



## Usario

^ The Core 2 Quad came out four years ago.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

If anything I don't think AMD has been sitting idle and not doing their home work.(llano is smashing laptop market)
as fast as they are coming up with new cpu tech, i think the software guys are scrambling to try and keep up.
somebody some where will make a cpu with instruction that will divide threads and put them together when all are ran.


----------



## hazarada

the stock heat sink is there for the sole purpose of screwing people out of their warranties, its not going anywhere


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HAF_wit*


Saw this rumor awhile back. I so hope it would be an optional package deal as there isn't a self-contained unit made that can outperform a properly installed custom loop, and I really don't want to have another HSF/cooler sitting in my parts bin.

Still chomping at the bit waiting to see what the FX-8150/8170 can do.










I'm in agreement. But it is nice to have something to fall back on for JiC. Even if this stupid 80mm fan is gonna drive me to go on a shooting spree from the nearest bell tower. So damn loud, make the bad fan be silent mommy.









~Ceadder


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


JF-AMD can you ask your buddies to consider packaging an *OEM processor with NO heat sink at all*, and pass the savings onto us.

Most of the true enthusiasts will not use A) The stock cooler B) An H50 type cooler. I'd rather just buy my own, while picking up the chip cheaper.


Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14556041*
> Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


Well there are bad apples and unappreciative people in all walks of life... so nothing new there. People are just frustrated with AMD. All the more so after Sandy Bridge showed up in January and the subsequent Zambezi slip from Q2 to Q3.

I think everybody, including the "foul-mouthed 12 year olds", will be singing AMDs praises (rather than getting on your case) if you guys release bulldozer and it turns out to be a fast processor competitive with Intel (especially for gaming).


----------



## Jared2608

I just wish I could find some reliable info about weather Bulldozer will be equal to Sandybridge, because rite now I'm in need of a new rig, and I would love it to be an AMD system but only if it least equals what sandy bridge cab do.

I'm thinking I should order my chassis, psu, gfx card etc and just hold off on mobo and CPU until bulldozer arrives and then reassess.

Can anyone say for sure when these chips will launch, and at what cost?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14556041*
> Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


JF-AMD dont give up on us due to some punk kids. I am pretty sure a large portion of OCN appreciates everything you have offered us here.







I have not been around long but have looked through your post and found a lot of useful information


----------



## Jared2608

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14556322*
> JF-AMD dont give up on us due to some punk kids. I am pretty sure a large portion of OCN appreciates everything you have offered us here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not been around long but have looks through your post and found a lot of useful information


this...some of us appreciate these types of posts from an "insider". Also, some of us would rather take advantage of the value for money aspect that AMD offer, especially if like me your Rand gets raped when it comes to anything imported.


----------



## linkin93

There are two types of people in life: Those who are on the way and those who are in the way.


----------



## Jared2608

Couldn't agree more linkin!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14553229*
> ^ The Core 2 Quad came out four years ago.


I just started watching the CPU game at the beginning of this year after a 10 year hiatus, so thank you for the correction







.

Well, game develops will already be on track to adding more threads to their games, so the next round of CPUs should be enough to hold me for about 4-5 years before technology jumps again







.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14556041*
> Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


I kinda figured this would happen. Sorry you got continually run over by the types who like to nag.

All I can say is if the consumer-level BD-based chip doesn't meet my expectations and PPP wants...I will start looking at server-focused tech.

Thanks for all that you did do, John. Your efforts weren't wasted on everyone. You are appreciated by some people.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Dang 2010rig, you're still in here?

Care to share what you've learn these past few months since bulldozer was supposed to release?

I've been really focused on dropping an ivy chip into my current board with full support outside of native USB 3.0.


----------



## Jared2608

Will bulldozer = sandy bridge...? That's all I'm waiting to see, I really want a ROG Crosshair V Formula and a nice Bulldozer chip...I'm hoping Bulldozer will be Ninja Quick...Hoping!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14557139*
> Dang 2010rig, you're still in here?
> 
> Care to share what you've learn these past few months since bulldozer was supposed to release?
> 
> I've been really focused on dropping an ivy chip into my current board with full support outside of native USB 3.0.


I'll summarize what we know.

On June 1, AMD announced that BD would launch in 60-90 days, which means we still have 'till the end of August for a possible release.

However, the release date is looking to be in September, possibly the 19th, though, this info came from a screenshot in a Bulldozer comic.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRYvfhk7xcs[/ame]

We don't have any official word from AMD on release dates, benchmarks will be released at launch.

The closest we have to performance are the following.
Quote:


> 40 percent faster than existing chips with up to 12 cores, while consuming the same amount of power


Quote:


> Thomas Seifert, interim CEO and CFO at AMD, during the last earnings call said:
> "The Interlagos platform is our first server offering, optimized for today's cloud datacenters
> and the architecture excels at compute-intensive and HPC workloads, where it will deliver
> up to 35% performance improvements compared to our current offerings."


This seems to contradict / overrule what JF-AMD said previously:
Quote:


> "From a performance standpoint, if you compare our 16-core Interlagos to our current 12-core
> AMD Opteron 6100-series processors (code named "Magny Cours") we estimate that customers will
> see up to 50% more performance from 33% more cores.


AMD is also considering adding liquid cooling to their high end BD chips.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/coolers/display/20110811072448_AMD_Considers_Equipping_FX_Chips_with_Liquid_Cooling_Solution.html

Bulldozer rumored pricing:

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-FX-Series%20FX-4110.html

http://whatswithjeff.com/amd-bulldozer-price-llano-price/

Other rumors say the 4110 may be as low as $190, but I haven't seen it, maybe Usario can post that link.

JF-AMD has given up on helping the client side of Bulldozer, understandably so.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14556041*
> Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


There, you're caught up, you haven't missed much. Not sure if I missed anything.

Oh, and you missed our very own Nostraseronx, who's predictions failed to come true. ( Long story







)


----------



## jck

After looking at the XbitLabs thing on LCSes being sold with the 8-core Bulldozer FX chips...I hope that AMD is smart enough to figure out that most real OCers are going to put more than a H60 or 620 on an 8150 to get real OC performance.

If they're gonna charge $400 for the CPU and LCS together, I hope they bundle it with at least an H80


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


No problem, this idea was geared towards helping AMD sell more chips, it doesn't benefit me in particular.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


After looking at the XbitLabs thing on LCSes being sold with the 8-core Bulldozer FX chips...I hope that AMD is smart enough to figure out that most real OCers are going to put more than a H60 or 620 on an 8150 to get real OC performance.

If they're gonna charge $400 for the CPU and LCS together, I hope they bundle it with at least an H80


Exactly, most people aren't going to use an Antec Kuhler 620 on their high end chip, especially if it's going to raise the price of the chips, it's just not worth it. I'm guessing the price will raise by $40 or so, considering they're being sold for $60 ( $50 with MIR )

Of course, the whole LCS thing is being considered, so we'll see how it pans out, and how much it will change the price.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14560106*
> Other rumors say the 4110 may be as low as $190, but I haven't seen it, maybe Usario can post that link.


http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Llano-and-Bulldozer-Pricing-Revealed-Report-201335.shtml

They were right about Llano's pricing, but they got the model numbers slightly wrong (they had a good idea of them, but the second digit of each of them except the E2 3250 was incorrect).


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14560723*
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Llano-and-Bulldozer-Pricing-Revealed-Report-201335.shtml
> 
> They were right about Llano's pricing, but they got the model numbers slightly wrong (they had a good idea of them, but the second digit of each of them except the E2 3250 was incorrect).


Thanks, I hadn't seen that link yet.

That seems like a more logical pricing structure, $190 4C, $240 6C, $290 8C.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Sorry, I gave up on helping out the desktop side. The enthusiasts seem to be a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds; if the community can't police itself then I don't want to waste my time with them. Not worth my time.


Well said.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


My name is Seronx thanks

I did back myself up look it up, it's not my fault people are blind


http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...5P.shtml#Specs


----------



## Usario

I heard AMD's going to be discussing Bulldozer at Hot Chips next Friday. Hopefully we'll get some more details.... like benches or maybe even a RELEASE DATE!


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I heard AMD's going to be discussing Bulldozer at Hot Chips next Friday. Hopefully we'll get some more details.... like benches or maybe even a RELEASE DATE!










Isn't that when AMD releases BD details and such (launch) and then retail CPUs hit the stores in September ?? (forgot the day)???


----------



## Usario

That would make sense... August 19 launch -> September 19 retail availability

BTW, does anyone remember if August 19 was one of the dates Seronx predicted? for t3h lulz


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


My name is Seronx thanks

I did back myself up look it up, it's not my fault people are blind

Skylake(2016) -> FMA4

Haswell(2013) -> FMA3

Bulldozer(2011), Enhanced Bulldozer(2012~), Next Gen Bulldozer(2013~) -> FMA4

If you can't tell Bulldozer is way ahead you are blind as a bat


I am a bat!








And I mean, you backed yourself up, but not with anything specifically from AMD. I'm willing to believe you because you make sense, but you don't back yourself up with official outside sources. Unless I missed that, too.


----------



## hazarada

but but but computex pwomised zambezi on store shelves within the next 18 days, come september im eyeballing lga2011 with its 8 ram slots


----------



## Usario

Want 8 RAM slots on AMD? Get a G34 board.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


That would make sense... August 19 launch -> September 19 retail availability

BTW, does anyone remember if August 19 was one of the dates Seronx predicted? for t3h lulz


I think it will be more like Sept 19th launch -> Oct 19th retail availability


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


I think it will be more like Sept 19th launch -> Oct 19th retail availability










My birthday is 26th oct so that makes a perfect birthday present


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


I think it will be more like Sept 19th launch -> Oct 19th retail availability


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14564057*
> Want 8 RAM slots on AMD? Get a G34 board.


i also want viable single thread performance, something which amd server chips don't exactly shine for


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14560904*
> Thanks, I hadn't seen that link yet.
> 
> That seems like a more logical pricing structure, $190 4C, $240 6C, $290 8C.


Not really all that inspiring from a performance standpoint.

AMD always comes out high it seems. I'd expect a drop in pricing after a few months.

Also the 4c chip seems over-priced compared to the high end chip... Which really doesn't make much sense. Don't we usually pay more of a premium for higher end parts? Something doesn't add up there imo.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14565992*


Just a guess,thats why i said "I Think"

But yesterday i saw this at AMDzone
Quote:


> Some MSI insider *info* again.
> 
> He tells that he can't share all details, but that he is worried about Bulldozer. Forecasts were given (to MSI -and I guess to all strategic partners- to 'predict' how much capacity to devote to certain mainboard lines) that AMD would supply the AM3+ segment with *'huge'* numbers of Bulldozer CPU's. Last week(s) word was received that AMD only will supply the AM3+ segment with an *'alarming' small* number of CPU's. Seems to point at yield/production problems.
> 
> Fact seems to be that:
> AMD has drastically lowered forecasted available bulldozer CPU's


Add that to the leaked *Slide* of BD release schedule(the one showing Oct)

All this is making me "Think" Oct retail availability


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14567314*
> Not really all that inspiring from a performance standpoint.
> 
> AMD always comes out high it seems. I'd expect a drop in pricing after a few months.
> 
> Also the 4c chip seems over-priced compared to the high end chip... Which really doesn't make much sense. Don't we usually pay more of a premium for higher end parts? Something doesn't add up there imo.


Well it's $320 for the 125W eight core. I don't really get why the 125W one would be more expensive unless it's clocked significantly higher though... a 95W at a similar clock rate would overclock much better, since they're all Black Editions.


----------



## Ceadderman

I think we're all agreed that the $190 entrant is better than the top end Phenom II quad. Right? Where is that currently selling right now?

Phenom II 980 is selling at $170, so $190 for a CPU that will out perform it is damned reasonable. I don't see where people consider these prices too high. There are no benchmarks but going with the 35% increase in performance that AMD is quoted suggesting(many times) in this thread? I'll take it and be satisfied I got the best bang for my buck.









~Ceadder


----------



## Usario

The $190 entrant better be faster than the X6...


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The $190 entrant better be faster than the X6...


It should be. But erring on the side of caution I limited my expectations. Seeing as how we have nothing concrete to suggest one way or the other. Point is people shouldn't look at price and suggest that it's not worth paying that.

Let's say that it is better than Thubbie. Entry price for a newly released Thubbie 1090 was ~$400 depending on where you got it. If this thing is better than Thubbie, who can complain other than the OCD person who can't stand that it didn't come with a snack and a drink.









~Ceadder


----------



## Usario

I thought the 1090T was $300 at release?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*


It should be. But erring on the side of caution I limited my expectations. Seeing as how we have nothing concrete to suggest one way or the other. Point is people shouldn't look at price and suggest that it's not worth paying that.

Let's say that it is better than Thubbie. Entry price for a newly released Thubbie 1090 was ~$400 depending on where you got it. If this thing is better than Thubbie, who can complain other than the OCD person who can't stand that it didn't come with a snack and a drink.









~Ceadder










WHAT!?!??! This thing better come with a coupon for a free 24pack of soda and 10lbs of chips!!!!!


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


WHAT!?!??! This thing better come with a coupon for a free 24pack of soda and 10lbs of chips!!!!!










If it doesn't... I'm sorry, but I'm boycotting AMD!


----------



## Hogwasher

Yeah I thought it was released around 300


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Not really all that inspiring from a performance standpoint.

AMD always comes out high it seems. I'd expect a drop in pricing after a few months.

Also the 4c chip seems over-priced compared to the high end chip... Which really doesn't make much sense. Don't we usually pay more of a premium for higher end parts? Something doesn't add up there imo.


Isn't the i5 2500k normally about $215USD on newegg? If the quad-core bulldozer CPU is close in performance to the 2500k, then I think $190 would be a pretty good price to start with.

Where did everyone get these $190, $240, and $290 prices? Did I miss a link...?


----------



## Usario

You did miss a link. Check page... 220 I think it was. 219


----------



## Ceadderman

Yeah sorry bout that guys, typo. Meant $300 typed $400.









$300 was one of the reasons I never jumped on the Thubbie bandwagon. That and I don't need the extra two Cores.










However if I can get an Octacore BD for near that price I would do it just cause I can. Not that I need it but if it fit on my current board I could live without all of the AM3+ features.









~Ceadder


----------



## Usario

Hmm.... if BD really launches at Hot Chips...


----------



## Ceadderman

I've no idea what I'm looking at or what I'm sposed to be looking for.









~Ceadder


----------



## Tweeky

I have a question!
When will it be released?
How much will it cost?
And how fast will it go?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


I have a question!
When will the bulldozer be released?
How much will it cost?
And how fast will it go?


no one knows. Probably 9/19

$190 4c, $240 6c, $290 95W 8c, $320 125W 8c

Wait for Friday.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Friday, Friday, gonna get down on Friday. Everybody's waiting for AMD to get their crap together and tell us something.









What is Friday exactly?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Friday, Friday, gonna get down on Friday. Everybody's waiting for AMD to get their crap together and tell us something.









What is Friday exactly?










I dont understand if we are so close to release date, how the heck AMD has not said anything.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Friday, Friday, gonna get down on Friday. Everybody's waiting for AMD to get their crap together and tell us something.









What is Friday exactly?










Hot Chips. AMD is going to talk about Bulldozer.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Friday, Friday, gonna get down on Friday. Everybody's waiting for AMD to get their crap together and tell us something.









What is Friday exactly?










Hot Chips 2011. AMD released a lot of info about bulldozer last year at this conference, so people are expecting big things this year as well.

This year AMD has a talk entitled â€œPerf Power-Efficient Bulldozer-Core x86-64 Server, WS & Desktop Procsâ€ scheduled for Friday.

Check out the link below. 
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...gust-19th.html

EDIT: Ninja'd


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*


Yeah sorry bout that guys, typo. Meant $300 typed $400.









$300 was one of the reasons I never jumped on the Thubbie bandwagon. That and I don't need the extra two Cores.









However if I can get an Octacore BD for near that price I would do it just cause I can. Not that I need it but if it fit on my current board I could live without all of the AM3+ features.









~Ceadder










You mean like stable overclocks?! lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


I have a question!
When will it be released?
How much will it cost?
And how fast will it go?


Thats 3 questions...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Hot Chips 2011. AMD released a lot of info about bulldozer last year at this conference, so people are expecting big things this year as well.

This year AMD has a talk entitled â€œPerf Power-Efficient Bulldozer-Core x86-64 Server, WS & Desktop Procsâ€ scheduled for Friday.

Check out the link below. 
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...gust-19th.html

EDIT: Ninja'd










So it might arrive next year then, if your basing it on receiving info from a conference last year and relating that to a conference this year...


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14575538*
> So it might arrive next year then, if your basing it on receiving info from a conference last year and relating that to a conference this year...


Are you on drugs?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I struggle with the pricing because if the x4 is comparable to the i5-2500k then the x6 should be comparable to the i7-2600k.

HT only provides like a 20% boost in performance best case, and only in applications that can actually use eight threads.

If the AMD x4 competes with the i5-2500k and the i7-2600k is only 20%~ faster than the i5-2500k on its best day than why is the x8 almost the same price as the i7-2600k?

The x8 is clocked higher than the x4 and has twice the cores, it should therefore basically be "twice" as fast as the x4, whereas the i7-2600k simply isn't even close to twice as fast as the i5-2500k.

For some reason this doesn't add up for me. I'm highly suspect of the x4 pricing and its relative performance. I believe the x8 is going to beat the i7-2600k in multi-threading but lose at least 50% of its performance in gaming. Perhaps that is the reason for the pricing?

I dunno, but it seems illogical that the x4 is so close to the price of the i5-2500k if the performance really is there the x6 should be $300 while the x8 would be in its own performance segment and priced greater than the i7-2600k assuming it had the performance to warrant such a pricing scheme.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14576625*
> Are you on drugs?


lol

What I meant was we keep hearing about this conference and that conference, and we're going to hear this and that, and nothing so far of any significance has ever come from one of these conferences! lol

So i'll take news that AMD is going to release info at (insert name) conference with a pinch of salt.

Yes Balla, either the pricing estimates are wrong or BD will be a white elephant. Either way, they promised us a cpu that lives up to the FX moniker, but the prices surely don't reflect that. I expect AMD to secrectly rue that they ever said its FX.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14577721*
> I struggle with the pricing because if the x4 is comparable to the i5-2500k then the x6 should be comparable to the i7-2600k.
> 
> HT only provides like a 20% boost in performance best case, and only in applications that can actually use eight threads.
> 
> If the AMD x4 competes with the i5-2500k and the i7-2600k is only 20%~ faster than the i5-2500k on its best day than why is the x8 almost the same price as the i7-2600k?
> 
> The x8 is clocked higher than the x4 and has twice the cores, it should therefore basically be "twice" as fast as the x4, whereas the i7-2600k simply isn't even close to twice as fast as the i5-2500k.
> 
> For some reason this doesn't add up for me. I'm highly suspect of the x4 pricing and its relative performance. I believe the x8 is going to beat the i7-2600k in multi-threading but lose at least 50% of its performance in gaming. Perhaps that is the reason for the pricing?
> 
> I dunno, but it seems illogical that the x4 is so close to the price of the i5-2500k if the performance really is there the x6 should be $300 while the x8 would be in its own performance segment and priced greater than the i7-2600k assuming it had the performance to warrant such a pricing scheme.


It's AMD.

Also, can people please stop with the assumptions about low IPC? I'm pretty sure there will be a huge improvement over Phenom II.


----------



## Ceadderman

Screw it. AMD hear my plea, if you've got a good product then put Intel prices on the damn things so people will shut up about how low prices mean the performance isn't there. God almighty I'ma pull my Quad core out of my board, hone it down to razor fine and slit my wrists if the prices are too low.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14579150*
> Screw it. AMD hear my plea, if you've got a good product then put Intel prices on the damn things so people will shut up about how low prices mean the performance isn't there. God almighty I'ma pull my Quad core out of my board, hone it down to razor fine and slit my wrists if the prices are too low.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


ummm..... why? Once real benches are released, these people will shut up. And you'll save money. Win-win!


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Hmm.... if BD really launches at Hot Chips...












Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


no one knows. Probably 9/19

$190 4c, $240 6c, $290 95W 8c, $320 125W 8c

Wait for Friday.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Friday, Friday, gonna get down on Friday. Everybody's waiting for AMD to get their crap together and tell us something.









What is Friday exactly?











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Hot Chips. AMD is going to talk about Bulldozer.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


That would make sense... August 19 launch -> September 19 retail availability

BTW, does anyone remember if August 19 was one of the dates Seronx predicted? for t3h lulz


Heres more info that flat out goes against Aug 19 launch.
*AMD will showcase the Power of More Cores as a platinum sponsor of VMworld 2011 in Las Vegas, August 29th through September 1st*

Quote:



*"See a sneak preview of our upcoming "Bulldozer" technology"*

Tuesday, *August 30th - 4:30 p.m.*
Server and virtualization technology continue to evolve at an incredible pace, enabling some of the most demanding, business critical workloads to efficiently run in a virtualized environment. As the number of processor cores and the amount of memory bandwidth continue to increase, it is becoming more and more important to configure your virtualization environment to take full advantage of these resources while keeping your power and cooling costs under control. During this session you will learn about important vSphere scheduling parameters, which will enable you to get the most out of your current server and virtualization investment. *In addition, this session will give you an overview of AMD's next generation processor, featuring a completely new redesigned core architecture codenamed "Bulldozer," and demonstrate how it will provide unprecedented performance and value. *



Why would they *Preview* BD after it's launched?

Hotchips will just be talk!!

I'm Sticking to Sept launch/Oct retail availability


----------



## Usario

It's still a preview if it hasn't hit retail yet.


----------



## catharsis

sigh its seems like every month, all we hear is. Wait one or two more months for bd release. I wanna say the 6core will match the 2500k and the 8core will match the 2600k, the quad core will be a little under 2500k performance but will still offer good value for price. Just a guess of course.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


It's AMD.

Also, can people please stop with the assumptions about low IPC? I'm pretty sure there will be a huge improvement over Phenom II.


Why make a comment you can't possibly back up?

Quote:



So last Friday when I saw the first set of independent benchmark results pitting a mid-end Intel E6600 "Conroe" 2.4 GHz CPU (due next month) against the just released flagship extreme edition AMD FX-62 CPU, I started wondering if AMD worst nightmare was coming true. Intel's ~$250 E6600 CPU annihilated AMD's ~$1000 Extreme Edition AM2 based FX-62!



It's AMD alright, just seems its not the performance crown version of AMD.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Why make a comment you can't possibly back up?

It's AMD alright, just seems its not the performance crown version of AMD.


It's pretty ironic that you question a post and then make a statement of your own that you can't back up. In the same post.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

What comment did I make that I can't back up?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



It's AMD alright, just seems its not the performance crown version of AMD.


Unless you weren't referring to Bulldozer, that one.

I don't know what you were referring to if not though.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


Thats 3 questions...
...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweeky 
I have a question!

When will it be released?
How much will it cost?
And how fast will it go?

But if you say it real fast it sounds like one question


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Unless you weren't referring to Bulldozer, that one.

I don't know what you were referring to if not though.


I'm not going to explain how basic logic works.

My comment can be easily backed up by which processors AMD is trying to compete with, what their pricing is - compared to past events a clear picture anyone with an open mind can draw will appear.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but there is no confirmed pricing for any FX chip. The closest we have is $300 for the chip they are giving away. We don't know which chip they are giving away either.

Your claim can not be backed up.


----------



## xd_1771

Las Vegas, August 29th to September 1st!? DANG.

I had an opportunity to return to Las Vegas (again) during that date, not only to see that but to see a particular concert with my family and visit a good friend. Unfortunately due to other plans it is just not happening.

It is likely that due to the cluster multi threading (CMT) architecture, that an 8 core BD will not provide 200% the performance when using 8 cores vs 4. Remember that.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but there is no confirmed pricing for any FX chip. The closest we have is $300 for the chip they are giving away. We don't know which chip they are giving away either.

Your claim can not be backed up.


The internet says otherwise.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=amd+confirms+pr...bulldozer+cpus


----------



## Damn_Smooth

I don't know if that was supposed to be witty or clever but if that's the case, you failed miserably.

Give me a link from AMD with prices and benchmarks. Until you can do that, you have failed to back up your claim.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

/yawn

Clicking too hard now too?

Quote:



Advanced Micro Devices has officially confirmed approximate retail pricing of its high-end FX-series central processing unit with eight cores code-named Zambezi. As expected, the chips will cost around $300, which is in line with the price of higher-end Intel Corp.'s Core i-series "Sandy Bridge" microprocessors.


Benchmarks?

How am I going to provide benchmarks of a processor that has failed to be released?

I can provide benchmarks from the slowdozer chips that caused the delay, would that help?


----------



## xd_1771

Might want to look back at Damn_Smooth's post here:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*

I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but there is no confirmed pricing for any FX chip. *The closest we have is $300 for the chip they are giving away.*


I think he already knew that.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



*officially confirmed approximate retail pricing of its high-end FX-series central processing unit*


Why is he arguing we don't have an idea of the prices then?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Thank you xd, I did.

Balla, you can't provide benchmarks or prices. That is the whole point of this conversation. You are making baseless claims, the same thing you accused Usario of doing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Why is he arguing we don't have an idea of the prices then?


We have an idea for 1 chip and we don't know what chip that is. What is your point?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

My point was we know the price of the high end cpu, and we know from past cpu releases it won't be a top tier cpu.

It seems many people think Sandy Bridge is Intels top tier, it isn't. With the release of Bulldozer so delayed as it is, it will release around the same time SBe is reportedly being released. If AMD had a top tier cpu it would be reflected in the price, it isn't, therefore simple logic suggests it isn't.

I said nothing baseless. I made some assumptions from using basic logic, something you seem to be unable to grasp.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Has this been posted in here yet

http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...rt=900#p209349

Quote:



Some MSI insider info again.

He tells that he can't share all details, but that he is worried about Bulldozer. Forecasts were given (to MSI -and I guess to all strategic partners- to 'predict' how much capacity to devote to certain mainboard lines) that AMD would supply the AM3+ segment with 'huge' numbers of Bulldozer CPU's. Last week(s) word was received that AMD only will supply the AM3+ segment with an 'alarming' small number of CPU's. Seems to point at yield/production problems.

Fact seems to be that:
AMD has drastically lowered forecasted available bulldozer CPU's


Found it over at XS. Yield issue could cause another push back till november or christmas? I just want benchmarks already damnit


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My point was we know the price of the high end cpu, and we know from past cpu releases it won't be a top tier cpu.

It seems many people think Sandy Bridge is Intels top tier, it isn't. With the release of Bulldozer so delayed as it is, it will release around the same time SBe is reportedly being released. If AMD had a top tier cpu it would be reflected in the price, it isn't, therefore simple logic suggests it isn't.

I said nothing baseless. I made some assumptions from using basic logic, something you seem to be unable to grasp.


Basic logic says that AMD hasn't released information. They haven't even said that that was their high end octocore. That was tagged on by the site you took it from.

Go ahead and throw juvenile insults questioning my ability to grasp things, the fact is your claims are still baseless.


----------



## xd_1771

There are a large amount of factors that could contribute to that - such as the mass production of the comparable Llano APUs, also on that 32nm process.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My point was we know the price of the high end cpu, *and we know from past cpu releases it won't be a top tier cpu*.

It seems many people think Sandy Bridge is Intels top tier, it isn't. With the release of Bulldozer so delayed as it is, it will release around the same time SBe is reportedly being released. If AMD had a top tier cpu it would be reflected in the price, it isn't, therefore simple logic suggests it isn't.

I said nothing baseless. I made some assumptions from using basic logic, something you seem to be unable to grasp.


I'm not seeing how you can make this claim. Thuban was top tier at the time of release. And they had two models. Those weren't "happy accident" CPUs' either.

There are no benches on them but I'd bet they are top tier CPUs' just specifically on their 32nm scale compared to 45nm scale.Which is to me what you're comparing against.









~Ceadder


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Hopefully Bulldozer remains vaporware so we can all continue to dream while assuming people are calling us names because we believe the internet is lying to us and use that as our basis of arguing.

Thuban was AMD high end, coming in at ------ wait for it ----- $300 price point.

However it was not a high end cpu. That would be the 980x and 970 which were quite a bit faster albeit at a higher price point. The 1090T also failed to hold the $300 price point and before a years time had dropped $130 off its release price.

I'm not crapping on AMD, I'm just pointing out the performance is typically reflected in the pricing. Nobody is giving you more for nothing, not AMD, not Intel.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Hopefully Bulldozer remains vaporware so we can all continue to dream while assuming people are calling us names because we believe the internet is lying to us and use that as our basis of arguing.

Thuban was AMD high end, coming in at ------ wait for it ----- $300 price point.

However it was not a high end cpu. That would be the 980x and 970 which were quite a bit faster albeit at a higher price point. The 1090T also failed to hold the $300 price point and before a years time had dropped $130 off its release price.

I'm not crapping on AMD, I'm just pointing out the performance is typically reflected in the pricing. Nobody is giving you more for nothing, not AMD, not Intel.


I'm not assuming anything, you are. Assumptions, just like your argument, are baseless.

I'm also not the one claiming that Bulldozer will or will not be performance king. Time will tell.


----------



## JF-AMD

Guys, Hot Chips is a silicon technology show. There would not be a launch there.

And as I have said, benchmarks, prices and launch date on the launch date, not before.

There will be a bulldozer at VMworld, but then again we have had several public showings of the technology so far.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I'm not assuming anything, you are. Assumptions, just like your argument, are baseless.

I'm also not the one claiming that Bulldozer will or will not be performance king. Time will tell.












So either its around $300, or AMD is leading people on with their own graphs.


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My point was... I made some assumptions



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


assuming people are calling us names...


ahem


----------



## 2010rig

This is why it's best not to discuss the price / performance of Bulldozer, because no one knows one way or another. All these discussions just lead to arguments.

We don't know factual prices, nor do we know factual performance.

Whenever BD releases, we'll have benchmarks on the same day most likely.

I'm sure the question we're all wondering is why AMD can't give us a solid release date?

Today is Day 75 from when they made their 60 - 90 Day announcement.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


And as I have said, benchmarks, prices and* launch date on the launch date*, not before.


John, is this a typo, or did you really mean to type that?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*











So either its around $300, or AMD is leading people on with their own graphs.


How do you know which model 81x0 is? If AMD are releasing more than one 8 core model, how do you know what's meant to compete with what?

I can answer that for you if you wish. You don't.


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This is why it's best not to discuss the price / performance of Bulldozer, because no one knows one way or another. All these discussions just lead to arguments.

We don't know factual prices, nor do we know factual performance.

Whenever BD releases, we'll have benchmarks on the same day most likely.

I'm sure the question we're all wondering is why AMD can't give us a solid release date?

Today is Day 75 from when they made their 60 - 90 Day announcement.


And things can change. We have no way of knowing what problems they are having. For one thing they can only work with what information Global Foundries gives them. It is possible that AMD was given information from GF that turned out to not be 100 percent correct. We will probably never know what issues they have had to overcome to get this far, much less release the product to market.
Referencing dates that are given as 'expected' for this product launch is not fair or valid since AMD is not in control of the fabrication.
Did you blame Nvidia for the delays and yield issues they had with Fermi? Or did you blame TSMC? If you blamed TSMC then you are not being consistent, especially considering AMD did not have the same yield issues on the 40nm process.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol - You'll know the launch date on the launch date.

Probably a typo, but a really funny one.


No typo. We don't release launch dates ahead, so it will be on launch date.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No typo. We don't release launch dates ahead, so it will be on launch date.


Really? Does that mean the 60-90 days is bogus, or does it just mean nothing specific will be given outside of projected time frames (examples: Q4 or 60-90 days)?


----------



## Tweeky

Doesn't anyone know when BD will be lunched ?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Doesnâ€™t anyone know when BD will be lunched ?










Lunch is usually around noon. I'm not quite sure how it will taste though.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Lunch is usually around noon. I'm not quite sure how it will taste though.


That made me LOL


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


And things can change. We have no way of knowing what problems they are having. For one thing they can only work with what information Global Foundries gives them. It is possible that AMD was given information from GF that turned out to not be 100 percent correct. We will probably never know what issues they have had to overcome to get this far, much less release the product to market.
Referencing dates that are given as 'expected' for this product launch is not fair or valid since AMD is not in control of the fabrication.
Did you blame Nvidia for the delays and yield issues they had with Fermi? Or did you blame TSMC? If you blamed TSMC then you are not being consistent, especially considering AMD did not have the same yield issues on the 40nm process.


I don't recall blaming AMD for anything, just pointing out the obvious. I also said we shouldn't discuss price / performance or anything, 'cuz it only leads to arguments.

With Nvidia, we knew it was TSMC having yield issues, etc. With BD, we don't kow what, if any issues they are having. There's a difference.

I recall reading that there's nothing wrong with Bulldozer, yields are good, their public roadmap has not changed, etc. etc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No typo. We don't release launch dates ahead, so it will be on launch date.


I'd hate to bring this up, but what exactly did you mean by this then?

Quote:



Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/11/09...l-analyst-day/


----------



## Evil Penguin

Desktop and server BD chips are being manufactured as we speak (well perhaps not today). I'm fairly confident this time that they will launch some time in September.


----------



## Impunity

JF, i realize there is very little you can disclose to us and i fully appreiciate that. Thanks for the help you've provided us so far. That said, i have more general question that i'm hoping you can shed some light on.

Historically AMD's onboard memory controller has yielded the best results with tighter timings over a higher clockspeed. Will BD tolerate looser memory timings better (like SB)? This sort of information can help an individual or business plan for BD deployment better.

If you cant help us on this, i fully understand.


----------



## cssorkinman

I grew impatient and bought a 2600 k. It's very easy to overclock and without much fiddling I got it up to 4988 mhz. A real monster for the benchmarks to be sure , however for most of the things I do everyday ( suprisingly, even in most of the games I play), well I really can't tell much of a difference from my AMD 965.
In fact , the AMD actually feels quicker when I'm just browsing, a sort of " light on it's feet " feel to it. ( I actually find myself sitting in front of my 965 more often than the sandy).
I just wanted to say, if you have an AMD phenom II 955 or better, I don't think spending the $500 to move to 2600 k is really worth it. Be patient and see what Bulldozer brings to the table or even ivy bridge - just my 2 pennies worth.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Lunch is usually around noon. I'm not quite sure how it will taste though.


oops


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Sooooooooooooooooooo...
Tatakai, how's that H100 treatin' ya? I'm thinking of getting it when bulldozer comes out.
*Tries to get everyone to stop arguing....*
Can't wait until Friday...except now there probably isn't going to be a release date mentioned....


----------



## PyroTechNiK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*


I grew impatient and bought a 2600 k. It's very easy to overclock and without much fiddling I got it up to 4988 mhz. A real monster for the benchmarks to be sure , however for most of the things I do everyday ( suprisingly, even in most of the games I play), well I really can't tell much of a difference from my AMD 965.
In fact , the AMD actually feels quicker when I'm just browsing, a sort of " light on it's feet " feel to it. ( I actually find myself sitting in front of my 965 more often than the sandy).
I just wanted to say, if you have an AMD phenom II 955 or better, I don't think spending the $500 to move to 2600 k is really worth it. Be patient and see what Bulldozer brings to the table or even ivy bridge - just my 2 pennies worth.


You were doing something wrong. Maybe your overclock was unstable.

When I go onto my friends computer(Which has a i7 2600k) it feels a lot snappier than my system.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PyroTechNiK*


You were doing something wrong. Maybe your overclock was unstable.

When I go onto my friends computer(Which has a i7 2600k) it feels a lot snappier than my system.


Maybe your friend has an SSD, or he's customised his windows performance options. As soon I install windows I change the way windows open, can't stand animated windows, it makes your system feel sluggish, when it's just a GUI making you think that.

It was an interesting comment about the games though, all we've been told would have us believe that games would see a significant advantage by going to SB. I'm on the verge of it myself, though it would be a 2500k not a 2600k.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


JF, i realize there is very little you can disclose to us and i fully appreiciate that. Thanks for the help you've provided us so far. That said, i have more general question that i'm hoping you can shed some light on.

Historically AMD's onboard memory controller has yielded the best results with tighter timings over a higher clockspeed. Will BD tolerate looser memory timings better (like SB)? This sort of information can help an individual or business plan for BD deployment better.

If you cant help us on this, i fully understand.


Really don't know. Memory margining is does by OEMs and board manufacturers.


----------



## Impunity

Well, thanks anyway!


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Sooooooooooooooooooo...
Tatakai, how's that H100 treatin' ya? I'm thinking of getting it when bulldozer comes out.
*Tries to get everyone to stop arguing....*
Can't wait until Friday...except now there probably isn't going to be a release date mentioned....










As a request someone in another thread asked me if I could bump up my voltage to 1.52 and see what kind of temps I would get. After a run of prime95 with my ambient room temp at 71c I got 53c load and 30c idle.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


As a request someone in another thread asked me if I could bump up my voltage to 1.52 and see what kind of temps I would get. After a run of prime95 with my ambient room temp at 71c I got 53c load and 30c idle.


slightly OT but since its been brought up, Can you detach the hoses from that system without damaging it? Would you reccomend the cooler? over any air cooler? have you noticed any increased temps in NB or RAM since there is no CPU fan to draw/push air on nearby components?

I'm also considering one of these for my BD deployment.


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


As a request someone in another thread asked me if I could bump up my voltage to 1.52 and see what kind of temps I would get. After a run of prime95 with my ambient room temp at 71c I got 53c load and 30c idle.


Wow I have my c2 with a load voltage of 1.512vcore and cpu nb at 1.51v and I stay under 49 c with my corsair a70... thats with my room being around 75f to 80f. its an unlocked quad.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PyroTechNiK*


You were doing something wrong. Maybe your overclock was unstable.

When I go onto my friends computer(Which has a i7 2600k) it feels a lot snappier than my system.


Overclocked or not, really doesn't make much difference in the way it feels ( benches improve however) and the kicker is, the I 7 has a SSD and 8 GB of ram vs the caviar black hdd and 4 gb of ram of my 965.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I went from a older version of chrome to ie9 and sadly I've been hooked with the gpu acceleration









I think chrome has had gpu acceleration for awhile now, I should probably go back so I don't get stoned.

It brings up a good point though, we already have a lot of power in our systems... Software just for the most part, sucks at taking advantage of it.


I don't know if Chrome has automatic gpu acceleration but if you type about:flags in the address bar and hit enter, it brings up a menu where you can turn it on.

If you already knew that, ignore me.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


As a request someone in another thread asked me if I could bump up my voltage to 1.52 and see what kind of temps I would get. After a run of prime95 with my ambient room temp at 71c I got 53c load and 30c idle.


Your ambient temp's 71C?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*


Overclocked or not, really doesn't make much difference in the way it feels ( benches improve however) and the kicker is, the I 7 has a SSD and 8 GB of ram vs the caviar black hdd and 4 gb of ram of my 965.


an ssd does wonders for system speed.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I don't know if Chrome has automatic gpu acceleration but if you type about:flags in the address bar and hit enter, it brings up a menu where you can turn it on.

If you already knew that, ignore me.


Nope didn't know it.










I almost feel like a hipster using IE9 these days.

:Whistle: wtb bulldozer pst.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


slightly OT but since its been brought up, Can you detach the hoses from that system without damaging it? Would you reccomend the cooler? over any air cooler? have you noticed any increased temps in NB or RAM since there is no CPU fan to draw/push air on nearby components?

I'm also considering one of these for my BD deployment.


Unless your into modding and know what you're doing I wouldn't detach them. I've gotten a 6c drop idle and 10c load drop compared to the megahalems I had so I like it. As for the higher NB, RAM and/or GPU temp rise I've noticed nothing major or alarming and I have my H100 setup as intake at the top. I also have a fan in my HDD cage to help with airflow.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *konspiracy*


Wow I have my c2 with a load voltage of 1.512vcore and cpu nb at 1.51v and I stay under 49 c with my corsair a70... thats with my room being around 75f to 80f. its an unlocked quad.


I don't know what to say except that with those temps at those ambients with that much voltage makes your H70 magical?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Your ambient temp's 71C?










Yup the daily forecast in my room is sweltering but definitely good for losing weight.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Your ambient temp's 71C?










I'm pretty sure he meant 71f.







lol

71c=159.8F







<------hot hot hot hot hot hot water! water! hot hot hot hot hot hot...

~Ceadder


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Unless your into modding and know what you're doing I wouldn't detach them. I've gotten a 6c drop idle and 10c load drop compared to the megahalems I had so I like it. As for the higher NB, RAM and/or GPU temp rise I've noticed nothing major or alarming and I have my H100 setup as intake at the top. I also have a fan in my HDD cage to help with airflow.


Is it possible to Mount the H100 horizontally? i have a Thermaltake case and I'm considering the hose detach so i can mount it externally here:









or mounting it internally on the bottom where the intake on the floor of the case is.

If i mount it on the back that exhaust will become intake and i'll just exhaust out the top.


----------



## coachmark2

Alright, so I wanted to title this as an indpendent thread, I bet it would be deleted if placed elsewhere. Which is fine...

AMD really needs to give Intel a one-two punch with Bulldozer's release. For one main reason: Competition. Intel cannot be allowed to rest on its laurels. The i5-2500k that we all know and love as a super bang-for-buck chip would never have been if Intel had no competition. So AMD needs to have a strong Bulldozer showing, meeting these two possibilities.

1. AMD has to find a way to *at least* go toe-to-toe with the 2500k. It may sound absurd, but AMD has to at least match this beast or they're in trouble. If they cannot match Intel's *current* generation processors, then they have absolutely no prayer when Ivy Bridge, and Sandy Extreme come out. Again, Bulldozer has to at LEAST match the current Sandy Bridge chips in bang for buck.

2. Like I said, Intel would never have been pushed to develop the 2500k without the pressure from AMD. Selling $600 processors (I'm looking at you, Gulftown) is not a business model in this economy. But.... selling a super-overclockable quad core at a smidge over $200.... now THAT's a marketable idea. Again, Intel's developments in Ivy Bridge and Sandy Extreme will *not* be impressive *if* they're not getting pushed by AMD. They need competition to keep prices low and performance up.

I say all of this as an avid Intel fan. In fact, I'm such an Intel fanboy that I've never owned an AMD chip. Yet I still yearn for Bulldozer to succeed. Thanks for reading.


----------



## Impunity

Well, its hard to know for sure since all "benchmarks" are speculative at best, but considering this is the first major overhaul to AMD's lineup since 2003 i'm expecting some pretty special things from BD.

[speculation]
AMD is poised to make a major push in the market, they cant afford to half ass it and they know it. I believe they're going to be extremely competitive when it comes to price/performance. I think they're going to try to undercut Intel severely to aquire marketshare.

[/speculation]


----------



## chrystal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coachmark2*


Alright, so I wanted to title this as an indpendent thread, I bet it would be deleted if placed elsewhere. Which is fine...

AMD really needs to give Intel a one-two punch with Bulldozer's release. For one main reason: Competition. Intel cannot be allowed to rest on its laurels. The i5-2500k that we all know and love as a super bang-for-buck chip would never have been if Intel had no competition. So AMD needs to have a strong Bulldozer showing, meeting these two possibilities.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say all of this as an avid Intel fan. In fact, I'm such an Intel fanboy that I've never owned an AMD chip. Yet I still yearn for Bulldozer to succeed. Thanks for reading.


you truly hit the nail!
competition amongst Intel and AMD is what makes me as a consumer happy, knowing that if Intel grasps monopoly over CPU's in lets say the gaming and/or workstations prices would be skyhigh and we wouldn't even be able to touch a 2500k for its current price.

I hope that AMD shifts to high gear now and show that they can make another kick ass product. 
Besides, watching 2500k / 2600k vs AMD's current flagship models in benchmarks around 1080p, there is no "real" difference (max 1-5fps) which shifts my focus from CPU to GPU.

But I truly want bulldozer to be great, its either bulldozer or i7 for my VMware computer, soon to come.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Guys, Hot Chips is a silicon technology show. There would not be a launch there.

And as I have said, benchmarks, prices and launch date on the launch date, not before.

There will be a bulldozer at VMworld, but then again we have had several public showings of the technology so far.


Well comments like this are a bit disappointing.

Assuming that JF is also in tune with the desktop release date -- then he is basically saying that AMD will miss the August launch that they told everybody that they were expecting less than 3 months ago.

It is one thing if a product launch slips over the course of 8 months or a year like with the Q2 estimate (AMD first announced Q2 sometime in 2010), but when you are off on a expectation from a few months ago regarding a product that is very close to the market then you really have to wonder what in the world is going on at AMD/GloFo.

I am really starting to loose confidence in bulldozer. Sad really








As much as I like AMD... it is really stating to look like I will be building by first Intel rig.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Well comments like this are a bit disappointing.

Assuming that JF is also in tune with the desktop release date -- then he is basically saying that AMD will miss the August launch that they told everybody that they were expecting less than 3 months ago.

It is one thing if a product launch slips over the course of 8 months or a year like with the Q2 estimate (AMD first announced Q2 sometime in 2010), but when you are off on a expectation from a few months ago regarding a product that is very close to the market then you really have to wonder what in the world is going on at AMD/GloFo.

I am really starting to loose confidence in bulldozer. Sad really








As much as I like AMD... it is really stating to look like I will be building by first Intel rig.


This, coming from you, speaks so much truth.

I wish someone at AMD would "get this".

If they're having issues, fine, you can tell us, we can handle it. Keeping everybody in the dark is doing more harm than good IMO.

I was also disappointed to hear that the release date would be revealed on the day of release, I don't even have anything clever or sarcastic to say to that. I could've swore this was a typo.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


And as I have said, benchmarks, prices and* launch date on the launch date*, not before.


@coachmark2 - you nailed it as well. I'm rooting for Bulldozer for the same reasons, if it can at least match Sandy Bridge, I will gladly build my 2nd rig with Bulldozer though.

We the consumers need AMD to step up their game, the server market is borderline a monopoly. I'm too lazy to look for more recent stats, but here's an idea of how bad it got. 
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2677...ocessor-market

Bulldozer needs to take back some market share from Intel, like, yesterday.









Otherwise, we're going to be stuck with $600 & $1000 high end CPU's for a long time to come.

From an Economics, and Intel's point of view it's a brilliant strategy, especially when you can get away with it. I won't go into too much detail though. I think that making $13 billion a quarter speaks for itself.


----------



## catharsis

Sad news really. Whats the point of announcing launch date on launch date? If it indeed is launch date, then announcing it is launch date on launch date becomes quite redundant. Hopefully the rumors of them having fab issues are true and its not a more serious concern like poor performance that they are trying to tweak.


----------



## Homeles

I'm not really worried. A lot of signs are pointing towards it launching soon, probably next month. If it isn't out by October, I'll be a little annoyed though.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2;14585316*
> Alright, so I wanted to title this as an indpendent thread, I bet it would be deleted if placed elsewhere. Which is fine...
> 
> AMD really needs to give Intel a one-two punch with Bulldozer's release. For one main reason: Competition. Intel cannot be allowed to rest on its laurels. The i5-2500k that we all know and love as a super bang-for-buck chip would never have been if Intel had no competition. So AMD needs to have a strong Bulldozer showing, meeting these two possibilities.
> 
> 1. AMD has to find a way to *at least* go toe-to-toe with the 2500k. It may sound absurd, but AMD has to at least match this beast or they're in trouble. If they cannot match Intel's *current* generation processors, then they have absolutely no prayer when Ivy Bridge, and Sandy Extreme come out. Again, Bulldozer has to at LEAST match the current Sandy Bridge chips in bang for buck.
> 
> 2. Like I said, Intel would never have been pushed to develop the 2500k without the pressure from AMD. Selling $600 processors (I'm looking at you, Gulftown) is not a business model in this economy. But.... selling a super-overclockable quad core at a smidge over $200.... now THAT's a marketable idea. Again, Intel's developments in Ivy Bridge and Sandy Extreme will *not* be impressive *if* they're not getting pushed by AMD. They need competition to keep prices low and performance up.
> 
> I say all of this as an avid Intel fan. In fact, I'm such an Intel fanboy that I've never owned an AMD chip. Yet I still yearn for Bulldozer to succeed. Thanks for reading.


I really hope AMD can compete. Bulldozer looks great on paper... so hopefully it'll actually be great.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14585738*
> Well comments like this are a bit disappointing.
> 
> Assuming that JF is also in tune with the desktop release date -- then he is basically saying that AMD will miss the August launch that they told everybody that they were expecting less than 3 months ago.
> 
> It is one thing if a product launch slips over the course of 8 months or a year like with the Q2 estimate (AMD first announced Q2 sometime in 2010), but when you are off on a expectation from a few months ago regarding a product that is very close to the market then you really have to wonder what in the world is going on at AMD/GloFo.
> 
> I am really starting to loose confidence in bulldozer. Sad really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I like AMD... it is really stating to look like I will be building by first Intel rig.


I built an Intel rig once. Sold it and vowed to never build another one again. I... really hope I don't have to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14585832*
> This, coming from you, speaks so much truth.
> 
> I wish someone at AMD would "get this".
> 
> If they're having issues, fine, you can tell us, we can handle it. Keeping everybody in the dark is doing more harm than good IMO.
> 
> I was also disappointed to hear that the release date would be revealed on the day of release, I don't even have anything clever or sarcastic to say to that. I could've swore this was a typo.


*WE* can handle it. But Intel fanboys would become INSANELY vocal in their hatred of AMD, and AMD's stock would plunge because, as recent events have shown, investors are always scared to death of next to nothing.
Quote:


> @coachmark2 - you nailed it as well. I'm rooting for Bulldozer for the same reasons, if it can at least match Sandy Bridge, I will gladly build my 2nd rig with Bulldozer though.
> 
> We the consumers need AMD to step up their game, the server market is borderline a monopoly. I'm too lazy to look for more recent stats, but here's an idea of how bad it got.
> http://seekingalpha.com/article/267774-amd-continues-to-challenge-intel-in-server-processor-market
> 
> Bulldozer needs to take back some market share from Intel, like, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise, we're going to be stuck with $600 & $1000 high end CPU's for a long time to come.
> 
> From an Economics, and Intel's point of view it's a brilliant strategy, especially when you can get away with it. I won't go into too much detail though. I think that making $13 billion a quarter speaks for itself.


This.

I won't lie. I'd LOVE to see Intel go bankrupt. Their business practices are terrible. But if Bulldozer cannot deliver, or if it's delayed another year or something, then I'll have no choice. And I'd be very disappointed in AMD.

Please do not take any part of the above paragraph out of context. If you do, I will be quick to point this out and ruin your credibility just the way you intend to ruin mine.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14586049*
> Sad news really. Whats the point of announcing launch date on launch date? If it indeed is launch date, then announcing it is launch date on launch date becomes quite redundant. Hopefully the rumors of them having fab issues are true and its not a more serious concern like poor performance that they are trying to tweak.


It very well could be issues with the fab since it is a new μarch on a new process. If true, that is almost to be expected and in its self not that big of a deal.

The problem is, like 2010Rig said, AMD doesn't release enough public information so we have NO IDEA what is going on. And while I understand that as the much smaller company they have to be very careful, there must be some information that they can release to give us an idea of the situation. _I am not asking for benchmarks before launch_, but just a explanation or a little insight that will help fans and potential customers keep some faith in their future product.

As for my case, AMD has until the end of Q3 (end of Sept) to launch Zambezi or I am going SB (or SB-E if it shows up in October). Other than the public road-map which says 2011, I have never heard AMD mention Q4 for desktop or sever. If bulldozer does slip into Q4 then something really must have gone wrong.

It sucks to assume the worst, especially about a company whose products have served me so well in the past, but given that AMD is not going to give any information, is not going to hint at launch before the day that it shows up on selves... given that, I am not going to continue to wait for a unknown date past the end of September.


----------



## Sadist

I've been closely monitoring this thread and unfortunately the official info boils down to

1. (35/40/50)% more performance for server parts (make up your mind, AMD)
2. 60-90 days since that expo in early June. Looks like this will be proven wrong though, as it's unlikely to launch before mid-september.

There haven't been any new official releases in 2 months and JF obviously can't tell us anything regarding performance which is the only thing that matters at this point.


----------



## Obakemono

You know what? I can wait for BD even if it launches in 2012!! Why can you do that you ask? Because my life does not revolve around a product, and my lifestyle will not come to a grinding halt if BD is late/delayed/whatever. I can live just fine without the latest and greatest. Don't get me wrong, I do hope BD and the tech it brings to the computer world brings good competition to Intel, but my way of life will not end just because a product is late or whatever. You should hear yourselves talking here, the "Keeping up with the Jones" is rampant, the fanboy teases and arguments, the off color comments and the inability to stay on topic. I cannot understand why people are acting the way they do about this subject, and I know someone will reply "We can do what we want", but look at how you appear to others. This whole blog has gone sour, even JF-AMD has gotten tired of the stupid crap being pulled here, and he was trying to help! This thread/blog is dead until launch/release date, because AMD has CHOSEN to remain tight lipped about BD, for whatever reason. It boils down to enough with the fanboyism, the stupidity, the immaturity and such.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14587732*
> You know what? I can wait for BD even if it launches in 2012!! Why can you do that you ask? Because my life does not revolve around a product, and my lifestyle will not come to a grinding halt if BD is late/delayed/whatever. I can live just fine without the latest and greatest. Don't get me wrong, I do hope BD and the tech it brings to the computer world brings good competition to Intel, but my way of life will not end just because a product is late or whatever. You should hear yourselves talking here, the "Keeping up with the Jones" is rampant, the fanboy teases and arguments, the off color comments and the inability to stay on topic. I cannot understand why people are acting the way they do about this subject, and I know someone will reply "We can do what we want", but look at how you appear to others. This whole blog has gone sour, even JF-AMD has gotten tired of the stupid crap being pulled here, and he was trying to help! This thread/blog is dead until launch/release date, because AMD has CHOSEN to remain tight lipped about BD, for whatever reason. It boils down to enough with the fanboyism, the stupidity, the immaturity and such.


You have your opinion and while I respect that --the tone of your post comes off as trying to force your opinion on others...something which I don't understand. If people want to discuss bulldozer in this thread then let them be.

Not everybody is in the same situation as you are. I have thousands of dollars of new parts sitting in my room waiting for a CPU and motherboard so I can build my new rig. It is not about keeping up with last tech. Some people, like myself, have plans to do a complete rebuild for the first time in a couple years -- all based around bulldozer.

That plan was already delayed through Q2. Personally, I have decided not to wait past the end of Q3. Already I have put off playing games, like The Witcher 2, because they would choke on my sig rig but will play fine once my new rig is build. Again not everybody is in your situation. If you are fine with what is soon to be the _second delay_ then I will not begrudge you, however, there are some big AMD fans not very happy with the situation.

This is the only thread on OCN where we can discuss our thoughts related to bulldozer and say how we feel about the situation which is why you see a lot of posts like the last page or so in this thread. If this discussion doesn't fit your taste then I suggest you don't enter the thread.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14585738*
> Well comments like this are a bit disappointing.
> 
> Assuming that JF is also in tune with the desktop release date -- then he is basically saying that AMD will miss the August launch that they told everybody that they were expecting less than 3 months ago.


Take my posts at face value, do not read into them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14586049*
> Sad news really. Whats the point of announcing launch date on launch date? If it indeed is launch date, then announcing it is launch date on launch date becomes quite redundant. Hopefully the rumors of them having fab issues are true and its not a more serious concern like poor performance that they are trying to tweak.


The point is we are not announcing a launch date. I am just saying that you will know the actual date when we launch.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by JF-AMD
> And as I have said, benchmarks, prices and launch date on the launch date, not before


There is never any "good" news about Bulldozer. I feel like a fool for waiting. It cant be good if they are not saying anything, and keep missing release dates, like the June speculations, then the 60-90 days, well I guess they still have a couple weeks left to make that one, but it doesnt seem promising. If this thing doesnt come out till late Sep or Oct, i will have to get a 2500K. Im wasting away a long time without a top notch setup waiting.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14588142*
> Already I have put off playing games, like The Witcher 2


I did the same with The Witcher 2 and Crysis 2 when I killed one of my 470s. I could still play them, but it wouldn't be quite the same with lower settings. I bought the system I have so I could max out the latest and greatest. That was actually why I left AMD after buying so many processors in such a short period of time.

Most people would consider it silly to buy a 245 and upgrade through just all of Phenom II all the way to a 1090T. But the problem was it was my first desktop build in about 7 years of having laptops and I wanted something that could steamroll everything I threw at it for the best possible price>performance ratio I could do.

At the time I was building, pre-sandy bridge AMD made the most sense, it had a nice balance between price and performance specially when you looked at what Intel had to offer, i7-920 on x58 laughed at my budget, while a i5-750 cried no joy when it came to rendering/encoding.

No matter how fast my i5-2500k is it's still not quite as fast as I feel I want. I lose a lot of frames when I fraps the Witcher 2 on max settings, my cpu chokes down to the 20 fps range, which is about 1/2 to 1/3 what I get without fraps. I bottleneck in SC2 and WoW, I still get decent frames, the best you can get right now, but they're not awesome frame rates either.

The point is I've had good success with the sell to upgrade process around here, and I want more processing power. I want more single core performance, and I want more cores. I want more power. I'm expecting more from Intel and AMD. Right now I'm watching Bulldozer and reading into everything I hear about it - probably too much. If it does awesome, I will find a way to make a switch. If it doesn't, I'm already looking at a board side grade and a drop in Ivy upgrade. I'm always looking for more performance from my money.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Balla, your issue with FRAPs is your hard drive, not your CPU.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14588611*
> Balla, your issue with FRAPs is your hard drive, not your CPU.


I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact that I can fraps Metro 2033 at 80+ fps and Crysis 2 at 70+ fps.

The Witcher 2 is the hardest game for my system to run (ubersamp) and it loads my cores up more than metro 2033 and Crysis 2 by far.


----------



## Elis

. . . so an extra 2 cores may come in handy


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14588258*
> There is never any "good" news about Bulldozer. I feel like a fool for waiting. It cant be good if they are not saying anything, and keep missing release dates, like the June speculations, then the 60-90 days, well I guess they still have a couple weeks left to make that one, but it doesnt seem promising. If this thing doesnt come out till late Sep or Oct, i will have to get a 2500K. Im wasting away a long time without a top notch setup waiting.


We have continuously said over the past 2 years that all details come out at launch, so you should not be expecting us to release anything prior to launch.


----------



## iggydogg

Another indicator for the sept launch/oct retail availabilty
Quote:


> In the Swedish sales channel is circulating, however, other tasks. According Sweclockers sources begin deliveries in the last week in September, that is, sometime in the period from 26 to 30 September. It would then mean that the AMD FX series are not available in stores at the proposed launch date and that it will take approximately a further one week before the processors show up in stores.


original source

Google Translate


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14587732*
> You know what? I can wait for BD even if it launches in 2012!! Why can you do that you ask? Because my life does not revolve around a product, and my lifestyle will not come to a grinding halt if BD is late/delayed/whatever. I can live just fine without the latest and greatest. Don't get me wrong, I do hope BD and the tech it brings to the computer world brings good competition to Intel, but my way of life will not end just because a product is late or whatever. You should hear yourselves talking here, the "Keeping up with the Jones" is rampant, the fanboy teases and arguments, the off color comments and the inability to stay on topic. I cannot understand why people are acting the way they do about this subject, and I know someone will reply "We can do what we want", but look at how you appear to others. This whole blog has gone sour, even JF-AMD has gotten tired of the stupid crap being pulled here, and he was trying to help! This thread/blog is dead until launch/release date, because AMD has CHOSEN to remain tight lipped about BD, for whatever reason. It boils down to enough with the fanboyism, the stupidity, the immaturity and such.


That's just you. Some people really NEED a computer soon, and think about it. Some people bought all the parts for their BD rig months ago, because of the Q2 launch timeframe. Then they bought their motherboards in June, after the delay was announced. They're still waiting, with all those parts lying around... and now it looks like BD slipped even further back. People have reason to be frustrated.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14589725*
> That's just you. Some people really NEED a computer soon, and think about it. Some people bought all the parts for their BD rig months ago, because of the Q2 launch timeframe. Then they bought their motherboards in June, after the delay was announced. They're still waiting, with all those parts lying around... and now it looks like BD slipped even further back. People have reason to be frustrated.


Frustrated? Okay, I can understand that.

But, it is a chance you take buying the latest tech. Nothing in life is 100% guaranteed...especially delivery of promises.

I remember in the 1990s, Intel pumped out this great new chip called Pentium. And, a lot of engineering firms who were putting a lot of money out for PCs bought them. Then, they found out about the floating point error.

You think they weren't frustrated? Or Intel's suppliers?

I've been waiting months too, just like everyone else. And if someone "NEED"s a computer that bad, there are options out there besides FX if the need is that pressing.

Anyways...I know the pain of waiting. I just hope the wait is worth it. I am looking forward to getting a roundup of stats from various reviews and seeing if Christmas is going to include a new FX-based system for me this year or not.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kweechy*


Here's what I don't understand about the Bulldozer pricing:

The 8 core unlocked FX chips are supposedly going to be around $320. Similar to a 2600k.

The 6 core is $240 and the 4 core is $220; similar to a 2500k.

A 2600k is only around 20% faster than a 2500k in apps that will use the hyperthreading to its full advantage. Yet we can all agree that an 8 core FX will be very close to 100% faster than its 4 core brother.

So which chips fall where on the pricing scheme? Are the 4 core Bulldozer chips way too expensive compared to the 2500k, or at the 8 core Bulldozer chips way too cheap compared to the 2600k?

Something just isn't making any sense.

Can we venture to guess that it's likely the case that the 8 core Bulldozer is underpriced to help AMD get a better market share against Intel again while the 4 core (the chips they'll likely sell the most of) is priced competitively to make up for a slight profit loss on the 8 core?


nothing about the pricing is official at this exact moment .. we dont know wich chip will cost 300$ or so ... and until we do we wont be able to answer you with facts


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


nothing about the pricing is official at this exact moment .. we dont know wich chip will cost 300$ or so ... and until we do we wont be able to answer you with facts


Actually, we know that at least one model 8 core Bulldozer CPU will be ~$300 from the Sweepstakes AMD is running which gives away an 8-core FX Bulldozer.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Actually, we know that at least one model 8 core Bulldozer CPU will be ~$300 from the Sweepstakes AMD is running which gives away an 8-core FX Bulldozer.


and do you know wich model it is??

if its the higher end 8 core or low end 8 core model ..


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14595921*
> Sorry, but how are people better off with Phenom II when Sandy Bridge's 2500K is available? This is the obstacle that AMD has to overcome.
> 
> Phenom II is hardly a viable option these days. 1100T is $189, while the 2500K is $215.


I mentioned a Phen II if you were planning on running a BD thereafter. a Phen II + a 990FX board if you want BD before 2013 and need a PC now. Other than that you're right, theres no good reason to buy AMD until BD drops some benchmarks.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14595924*
> So what was the point of starting this thread?


Look at all of the information that we have shared about the architecture and all of the questions that I have answered.

The only things that we have not shared are pricing, SKUs, clock speeds, benchmarks and release date. Beyond that I think we have done a very good job of providing the answers that the board has asked.

The things we have not provided are the things that we never provide before launch. And, for the record, are the same things that Intel does not provide prior to launch.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread cleaned, keep on topic and enough bickering already.









We don't know ANY confirmed details yet, all we can really do at this point is sit it out and wait and see what happens.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I understand where you are coming from, John.
A while back when the v7 folding client was going through internal beta testing I had a little FAQ going. Some members were upset that I wouldn't give specific details (wasn't allowed to).

Right now people (including myself) are bent out of shape due to the lack of anything new regarding performance products from AMD.
People are "giving up" and moving to the competition.
Anyway, I have a shiny new AM3+ motherboard just waiting for an awesome new 8 core CPU.









That all aside, I really appreciate you taking your personal time to post here.
Not all of us are trolls.


----------



## kweechy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14597950*
> Thread cleaned, keep on topic and enough bickering already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know ANY confirmed details yet, all we can really do at this point is sit it out and wait and see what happens.


I thought this thread was the one sanctuary on Overclock.net where we could speculate about Bulldozer!

I second the JF_AMD appreciation btw.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kweechy;14598228*
> I thought this thread was the one sanctuary on Overclock.net where we could speculate about Bulldozer!
> 
> I second the JF_AMD appreciation btw.


It is.







That doesn't excuse arguing back and forth though.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kweechy;14598228*
> I thought this thread was the one sanctuary on Overclock.net where we could speculate about Bulldozer!
> 
> I second the JF_AMD appreciation btw.


I think the arguing not the speculation was the problem.









Anyway, there are still some days left in this month. Let's _hope_ nothing bad has happened since Computex and AMD can deliver when they said they would.


----------



## Tatakai All

I've been waiting *so* long that I forgot what it is that I'm waiting for. Something about a eight course meal on a bulldozer involving A Mute Donkey.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Summer ends on the 22nd of September.
They have until the 30th of this month to meet their "dead line".

BTW, I find it amusing that they show a Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P motherboard in that slide.
I thought they were talking about AM3+ motherboards.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

So....wait...the slide meant between 60-90 days from June 1st to between the 22nd of September. And September 19th is before the end of summer and between those two things.

brb happeh dance


----------



## StarDestroyer

Hey AMD-JF

what does AMD mean when they/you say "launch"

and what do you call it when they start selling in stores, is that the same as "launch"


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14598620*
> So....wait...the slide meant between 60-90 days from June 1st to between the 22nd of September. And September 19th is before the end of summer and between those two things.
> 
> brb happeh dance


It's all very confusing.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14598620*
> So....wait...the slide meant between 60-90 days from June 1st to between the 22nd of September. And September 19th is before the end of summer and between those two things.
> 
> brb happeh dance


That is a bit off. The slide says 60-90 days. Right now it is day 76, Aug 16th. If they are to deliver on time they have to the end of this month.

The slide also mentions "late summer" and all Evil Penguin was pointing out was that summer doesn't technically end until the equinox on Sept. 21st. However, I think "late summer" was just a general term and really has no relation to any date.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14598700*
> That is a bit off. The slide says 60-90 days. Right now it is day 76, Aug 16th. If they are to deliver on time they have to the end of this month.
> 
> The slide also mentions "late summer" and all Evil Penguin was pointing out was that summer doesn't technically end until the equinox on Sept. 21st. However, I think "late summer" was just a general term and really has no relation to any date.


Don't spoil my sleep-deprived fun.







+


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14598685*
> Hey AMD-JF
> 
> what does AMD mean when they/you say "launch"
> 
> and what do you call it when they start selling in stores, is that the same as "launch"


Launch is the offical launch date of record. At launch you release the pricing, the SKUs, benchmarks, etc. On that day the web site goes live, parts are able to be advertised by partners, and generally (but not always) partners launch their products.

You don't allow selling in stores prior to launch; we will sell server parts before launch, but only for specific identified deals, and that happens under NDA. With Istanbul, for instance, we sold 50K+ parts under NDA before we launched.


----------



## linkin93

Thanks for that JF!


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14599846*
> Launch is the offical launch date of record. At launch you release the pricing, the SKUs, benchmarks, etc. On that day the web site goes live, parts are able to be advertised by partners, and generally (but not always) partners launch their products.
> 
> You don't allow selling in stores prior to launch; we will sell server parts before launch, but only for specific identified deals, and that happens under NDA. With Istanbul, for instance, we sold 50K+ parts under NDA before we launched.


so am i correct in saying that "Launch" = General public availability? i.e. thats the day i can order from Newegg?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


so am i correct in saying that "Launch" = General public availability? i.e. thats the day i can order from Newegg?


Correct.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I have a question if you would humor me.

When you spoke before you were talking about performance increases as it pertains to throughput.

I was wondering if you could clear up for me exactly what throughput means, what are the ways it is measured, and if it the units for measurement include floating point and integer performance as well?


----------



## Canis-X

....are we there yet?


----------



## Schmuckley

what's the bottom line....throughput..i currently get 66 gflops..how does bulldozer compare? (at $320)


----------



## StarDestroyer

well the good thing is a BD will do better than a pII

but how much better??? An x6 1100 is $190, which is what the romurs say a FX4 will be

with an i5-2500k @$220, I hope BD can be close enough, either wise, what would they do, sell a FX4 for $150, FX6 for $220 ?

EDIT: I suppose intel is really trying to undercut AMD this time, otherwise they would charge $500 for the i5-2500k


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;10214208*
> Hm, I'll definitely keep a close eye on this, see if you guys can give me a good reason to go back to AMD.


I'll give you a reason, Waffle...I said so!!









j/k


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14589725*
> That's just you. Some people really NEED a computer soon, and think about it. Some people bought all the parts for their BD rig months ago, because of the Q2 launch timeframe. Then they bought their motherboards in June, after the delay was announced. They're still waiting, with all those parts lying around... and now it looks like BD slipped even further back. People have reason to be frustrated.


Not meaning to offend but this issue was addressed months ago during the whole "will it or won't it" issue. That being will BD work on AM3.

Yes I know AMD's stance is cut and dry. That they won't support it.

I'm not here to Trololol at all, but we don't have Bulldozer either do we? So buying a board a month early makes as much sense as buying a board a year in advance. It's the one reason why I'm still on Croshair IV.

When BD finally comes out, I'll probably stay away from the 990FX boards entirely and get BD and wait for 10** series boards since this is 1st Gen BD.

I'm not ridiculing anyone for making the purchase, just saying that the Boards were launched a little prematurely. Manufacturers should have held up until AMD green-lit the whole process. Especially since 3 of them already went way out on a limb saw in hand and told us that BD would work on 890FX boards with BIOS upgrades.

And again, AMD's stance clearly is that they don't support it. Well they don't support me lapping my CPU either and I've got two that are lapped.Nvm that if they wanted to, they could warranty them as long as they're within the warranty period and the lapping didn't cause damage to the CPU itself.







lol

~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14603664*
> I have a question if you would humor me.
> 
> When you spoke before you were talking about performance increases as it pertains to throughput.
> 
> I was wondering if you could clear up for me exactly what throughput means, what are the ways it is measured, and if it the units for measurement include floating point and integer performance as well?


Throughput is the amount of work that gets done. Speed is how fast the work gets done.

You use throughput when you are talking about a single workload that is threaded across multiple cores and you use speed to talk about running something on a single core.


----------



## Obakemono

My BD build will be a dual socket C32 server rebuild (will document it when it happens) and rebuilding my gamer with an 8-core FX BD. I look forward to doing these builds!!!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14605566*
> Throughput is the amount of work that gets done. Speed is how fast the work gets done.
> 
> You use throughput when you are talking about a single workload that is threaded across multiple cores and you use speed to talk about running something on a single core.


That's a clear, concise explanation.

Does your original statement of 50% throughput with 33% more cores still stand?
Quote:


> "From a performance standpoint, if you compare our 16-core Interlagos to our current 12-core
> AMD Opteron 6100-series processors (code named "Magny Cours") we estimate that customers will
> see up to 50% more performance from 33% more cores.


Was Thomas Seifert referring to throughput in this statement?
Quote:


> Thomas Seifert, interim CEO and CFO at AMD, during the last earnings call said:
> "The Interlagos platform is our first server offering, optimized for today's cloud datacenters
> and the architecture excels at compute-intensive and HPC workloads, where it will deliver
> up to 35% performance improvements compared to our current offerings."


----------



## ecnelitsep

I read that over at the UK site but have adopted the "Benchmarks speak louder then words" approach.

Did anyone catch the "BD needs a lot of power phase's" post over there? Here comes another bloomfield.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14605566*
> Throughput is the amount of work that gets done. Speed is how fast the work gets done.
> 
> You use throughput when you are talking about a single workload that is threaded across multiple cores and you use speed to talk about running something on a single core.


Does the 35% or 50% whichever it is now - throughput results include the boost in performance the new instruction sets provide, such as AVX?


----------



## Usario

I speculate the 35/40% was talking about speed, and 50% more throughput.

I could be wrong, though. It's just speculation.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14606313*
> That's a clear, concise explanation.
> 
> Does your original statement of 50% throughput with 33% more cores still stand?
> 
> Was Thomas Seifert referring to throughput in this statement?


Benchmarks at launch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14607421*
> Does the 35% or 50% whichever it is now - throughput results include the boost in performance the new instruction sets provide, such as AVX?


No avx.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14609578*
> Benchmarks at launch.
> 
> No avx.


Has AMD made any official comment about speed increase? I have searched and I can't find anything so I'm thinking no.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14609578*
> Benchmarks at launch.


I didn't ask for benchmarks, I asked if your statement still stands, and if the CEO's statement was talking about throughput, since he said "performance".


----------



## Canis-X

What does avx do? What are the benefits?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jf-amd;14609578*
> no avx.


fma4?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14609578*
> Benchmarks at launch.
> 
> No avx.


But wasn't there talk of a similar instruction set,or will video encoding be left to the future AMD GPU's?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14609773*
> What does avx do? What are the benefits?


AVX is something that Intel uses which speeds up video encoding when the program is optimized for it,sort of like Nvidia's CUDA. It is faster than CUDA,however AMD has their STREAM(not sure if that is correct) technology but very few programs have support for it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14609660*
> Has AMD made any official comment about speed increase? I have searched and I can't find anything so I'm thinking no.


The comments made on speed increases were most likely just rumors of false information.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14609704*
> I didn't ask for benchmarks, I asked if your statement still stands, and if the CEO's statement was talking about throughput, since he said "performance".


I am not going to get into the game of dissecting our CEOs statements, especially in a public forum. That is not a wise move.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14609773*
> What does avx do? What are the benefits?


For this world of overclocking gamers, there is little or no benefit. AVX is a way of handling FP instructions. Today's SSE can handle 4 32-bit instructions at a time (total 128-bit). AVX can handle 8, for 256-bit. But most games won't use AVX and your applications have to be recompiled.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14609800*
> fma4?


Alex Trebek: "Can you please restate in the form of a question?"
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14609882*
> But wasn't there talk of a similar instruction set,or will video encoding be left to the future AMD GPU's?
> 
> AVX is something that Intel uses which speeds up video encoding when the program is optimized for it,sort of like Nvidia's CUDA. It is faster than CUDA,however AMD has their STREAM(not sure if that is correct) technology but very few programs have support for it.


AVX will not necessarily speed up video encoding unless your video encoding is heavily FP-centric. Most video encoding is integer, not FP.

Remember that 256-bit AVX sounds really cool for people, but if your current FP cycles are not being filled, then having a wider pipeline gives you nothing.

Go hop on a highway at 3AM. Does the fact that it is 4 or 8 lanes help you go any faster? Nope. The only way you get to take advantage of AVX is if the application has been recompiled. For the vast majority of client applications they will just convert SSE instructions to AVX-128. The only real place that you will probably see AVX-256 is in HPC, because they can fill the pipes.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14609923*
> I am not going to get into the game of dissecting our CEOs statements, especially in a public forum. That is not a wise move.


Fair enough.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Alex Trebek: "Can you please restate in the form of a question?"


Are the estimates taking into account FMA4 instructions, or are they for SSE workloads?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14610338*
> Are the estimates taking into account FMA4 instructions, or are they for SSE workloads?


no

When we make statements about performance we are not picking corner cases, my lawyers get really uptight when I do that and I like to have them on my side.


----------



## Canis-X

Thanks for the information JF!!









.....so are we close to being there yet


----------



## creisti86

if you do the math 50% more throughput from 33% more cores means.... 12.5% speed increase per core.
So that would be like overclocking from 3.2ghz to 3.6ghz (at pure computing speed, not fps in games or other platform dependent tasks)
And then you can add the instruction set benefits and the platform benefits (eg.: higher clocked memory)
Can anyone provide a benchmark between same clocked, and same number of cores, phenom II and sandy bridge where we can be sure that the instruction set doesn't help sandy?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


no

When we make statements about performance we are not picking corner cases, my lawyers get really uptight when I do that and I like to have them on my side.


Ok, thanks.


----------



## chasefrench

do we have a release date yet?


----------



## Tatakai All

No.


----------



## creisti86

Quote:



*AMD will showcase the Power of More Cores as a platinum sponsor of VMworld 2011 in Las Vegas, August 29th through September 1st*
[...]
See a sneak preview of our upcoming â€œBulldozerâ€ technology
[...]
Tuesday, August 30th â€" 4:30 p.m.
[...]
In addition, this session will give you an overview of AMDâ€™s next generation processor, featuring a completely new redesigned core architecture codenamed â€œBulldozer,â€ and demonstrate how it will provide unprecedented performance and value.


source

I think this means that it won't be out in August, otherwise there would not be a sneak preview on August 30th.


----------



## chasefrench

i thought they said release date is 60-90 days from the 1st of june, end of august is 90 days.

So they plan to demonstrate it at the end of august, meaning retail is probably another month after that

brilliant

EDIT: that article also doesnt say anything about retail bulldozer, only server, meaning the wait is probably even longer


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chasefrench*


do we have a release date yet?


I still think october


----------



## StarDestroyer

the x6 1100 is ~190

if the FX4 is ~190, it better do good in games, the i5-2500k @220 is great in games


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *creisti86;14611894*
> if you do the math 50% more throughput from 33% more cores means.... 12.5% speed increase per core.
> So that would be like overclocking from 3.2ghz to 3.6ghz (at pure computing speed, not fps in games or other platform dependent tasks)
> And then you can add the instruction set benefits and the platform benefits (eg.: higher clocked memory)
> Can anyone provide a benchmark between same clocked, and same number of cores, phenom II and sandy bridge where we can be sure that the instruction set doesn't help sandy?


No, I have already debunked this math. Throughput and speed are different things. You can't tell how fast a car can go based on its towing capacity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chasefrench;14612165*
> do we have a release date yet?


Yes. But we don't give that out in public.


----------



## kweechy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14613847*
> Yes. But we don't give that out in public.


No worries, just PM me with it!


----------



## jck

This is starting to remind me of the press corps at the White House briefings and all the re-wording things to try and dig information out of someone.

I feel for you, JF-AMD. You deserve a raise.









Added:

Hey JF-AMD...can you tell us about any events prior to the release of Bulldozer where it will be demonstrated? Or point us to a website where that schedule of events is available?


----------



## creisti86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14613847*
> No, I have already debunked this math. Throughput and speed are different things. You can't tell how fast a car can go based on its towing capacity.


Of course, it is harder and harder to compare processors because the architecture is getting more different. Another reason is bulldozer's shared resources, as i have speculated before this would mean that 8 cores would have the throughput of 720% of the throughput using only one core, not 800% as it would be if no resource sharing was done. So if we also take this into consideration... we get almost 14% increase in single core performance. Then again, all these are very speculative numbers and this is so because this is the only info about performance we have from AMD, and we are forced to make these crude calculations on meaningless numbers just to have some idea of the performance. Of course real-world performance will probably prove to be very different (I know, we'll see benchmarks at launch)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14613847*
> Yes. But we don't give that out in public.


But it is after August(as i understood form that article), hopefully September ?


----------



## JF-AMD

We will be showing it at a variety of places. But server demos have no bearing on the client product.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *creisti86;14614196*
> Of course, it is harder and harder to compare processors because the architecture is getting more different. Another reason is bulldozer's shared resources, as i have speculated before this would mean that 8 cores would have the throughput of 720% of the throughput using only one core, not 800% as it would be if no resource sharing was done. So if we also take this into consideration... we get almost 14% increase in single core performance. Then again, all these are very speculative numbers and this is so because this is the only info about performance we have from AMD, and we are forced to make these crude calculations on meaningless numbers just to have some idea of the performance. Of course real-world performance will probably prove to be very different (I know, we'll see benchmarks at launch)
> 
> But it is after August(as i understood form that article), hopefully September ?


Don't overthink it. There is nothing that we have said to date that would correlate to single thread performance. In addition, we have only talked about server workloads, not client.

There are so many variables that you won't figure it out. Statistically you might hit the right number because there is a finite set of numbers, but you won't get there via math.


----------



## The sword of Roland

I hate math,...please make it awesome


----------



## creisti86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14614265*
> Don't overthink it. There is nothing that we have said to date that would correlate to single thread performance. In addition, we have only talked about server workloads, not client.
> 
> There are so many variables that you won't figure it out. Statistically you might hit the right number because there is a finite set of numbers, but you won't get there via math.


of course there are a lot of variables, just thought of another one: turbo core. I didn't say i was right, I'm just trying, as it is my only option. The guess game wouldn't work, because I don't think you'll tell me: 'warm... warmer... that's it!' when I start randomly saying numbers.









And apparently that's also true about the launch date as you haven't made any comment about my brilliant, brilliant discovery in that article









@Durendal:
But that's why we have processors so they can do the math for us, and soon we'll have a processor that can do 50% more math from using 33% more cores (so you don't have to)







.


----------



## Rustynails

is there any confirmed price for the x4 x6?


----------



## Swiftdeathz

I know this is not what most people are craving (people want benchmark/performance numbers) but I found this clip which might interest some.
Quote:


> They had a system setup running the upcoming codenamed Bulldozer eight core FX Black Edition processor on an ASUS Crosshair V Formula (AMD 990FX chipset). In the video below you get one of your first looks at a live working Bulldozer system running Dirt 3. You can see all eight cores in action too as the Windows Task Manager performance tab was open at the time.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2XGoL9JaI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

source (Tweaktown)


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14616994*
> I know this is not what most people are craving (people want benchmark/performance numbers) but I found this clip which might interest some.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2XGoL9JaI&feature=player_embedded
> 
> source (Tweaktown)


Sweet! We can guesstimate a few things from this:

1) Only 3 cores are under a high load in the demo
2) The CPU seemed to have a stock air cooler with heatpipes, not a liquid cooling solution.
3) The game seemed to perform quite good, but I don't think he said the name of the GPU
4) Can't wait to buy one!!!


----------



## h0thead132

Looks to me that it is running a 6990 or a 6980 for graphics


----------



## Somenamehere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14616994*
> I know this is not what most people are craving (people want benchmark/performance numbers) but I found this clip which might interest some.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2XGoL9JaI&feature=player_embedded
> 
> source (Tweaktown)


Watching that video only made me want to buy 5 screens for eyefinity so I can play Dirt 3 like that.


----------



## AK-47

I'm just going to guess launch will be on Sep 19 2011


----------



## Sym_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14616994*
> I know this is not what most people are craving (people want benchmark/performance numbers) but I found this clip which might interest some.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2XGoL9JaI&feature=player_embedded
> 
> source (Tweaktown)


looked like 4 of the cores weren't even being used...that's kinda disappointing

still waiting on benchmarks from bulldozer so i can finally decide on my next platform jump

god i wish AMD would hurry up


----------



## Nocturin

we don't need no stinking benchmarks, it's 8 cores!

!!!

/s


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sym_;14618628*
> looked like 4 of the cores weren't even being used...that's kinda disappointing
> 
> still waiting on benchmarks from bulldozer so i can finally decide on my next platform jump
> 
> god i wish AMD would hurry up


3 cores were being used.. Not 4 and that 600T white looks like such a nice case


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14617058*
> Sweet! We can guesstimate a few things from this:
> 
> 1) Only 3 cores are under a high load in the demo
> 2) The CPU seemed to have a stock air cooler with heatpipes, not a liquid cooling solution.
> 3) The game seemed to perform quite good, but I don't think he said the name of the GPU
> 4) Can't wait to buy one!!!


GPU looks like a 6970 (based on the length)


----------



## Impunity

FWIW there *will* be a talk at Hot Chips on Friday that will talk about Bulldozer for both server and desktops.

http://www.hotchips.org/program/program-23

it will be at the end of the Friday Program. Hopefully some media outlet will be covering this, as i'm nowhere near Stanford and probably couldnt afford the registration anyway.

EE-Times says:

Quote:



AMD will give more details on its high-end Bulldozer core described at Hot Chips last year. It will also provide a first look at three chips using it, the Zambezi desktop CPU and Valencia and Interlagos server processors.


i doubt it will be benchmarks (though we can hope) but perhaps it will give is a little more perspective on the projected performance of these chips.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14620161*
> FWIW there *will* be a talk at Hot Chips on Friday that will talk about Bulldozer for both server and desktops.
> 
> http://www.hotchips.org/program/program-23
> 
> it will be at the end of the Friday Program. Hopefully some media outlet will be covering this, as i'm nowhere near Stanford and probably couldnt afford the registration anyway.
> 
> EE-Times says:
> 
> i doubt it will be benchmarks (though we can hope) but perhaps it will give is a little more perspective on the projected performance of these chips.


It will probally be more hypno-babble though. No benchies till launch.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


FWIW there *will* be a talk at Hot Chips on Friday that will talk about Bulldozer for both server and desktops.

http://www.hotchips.org/program/program-23

it will be at the end of the Friday Program. Hopefully some media outlet will be covering this, as i'm nowhere near Stanford and probably couldnt afford the registration anyway.

EE-Times says:

i doubt it will be benchmarks (though we can hope) but perhaps it will give is a little more perspective on the projected performance of these chips.


JF already commented on hot chips. Basically don't get your hopes up for any ground breaking news from this event.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


FWIW there *will* be a talk at Hot Chips on Friday that will talk about Bulldozer for both server and desktops.

http://www.hotchips.org/program/program-23

it will be at the end of the Friday Program. Hopefully some media outlet will be covering this, as i'm nowhere near Stanford and probably couldnt afford the registration anyway.

EE-Times says:

i doubt it will be benchmarks (though we can hope) but perhaps it will give is a little more perspective on the projected performance of these chips.


All we're probably going to get at Hot Chips is a more detailed description of everything.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


GPU looks like a 6970 (based on the length)


You guys do know that is the system running the small display on the other side right?

You won't be getting playable fps with a single 6970 with 5 portrait monitors in Dirt3 even with a Star Wars based cpu.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


You guys do know that is the system running the small display on the other side right?

You won't be getting playable fps with a single 6970 with 5 portrait monitors in Dirt3 even with a Star Wars based cpu.


Hmm... perhaps a pre-production 7990!









Which is probably going to be faster than four 6970s


----------



## thenerdal

I think AMD is trying to focus on APU's right now to compete against Intel.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


I think AMD is trying to focus on APU's right now to compete against Intel.


No. Just no.

APUs are for the ≤$800 market (correct me if I'm wrong). Fusion competes with Celeron, Pentium, and Core i3. Might compete with Core i5 by the time Trinity comes out.

Bulldozer is for servers and >$800 desktops, including enthusiast desktops.

So while APUs are going to become their main product... BD is very important to them. And remember that their APUs apparently will usually get current-gen cores... just a couple months before they're replaced. So they need good enthusiast chips to have good budget CPU performance.

While AMD probably doesn't make much money off expensive desktops, they probably make a TON off server customers.

Besides, as wonderful as Fusion is they need Bulldozer to restore their reputation.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Usario*   No. Just no.

APUs are for the ≤$800 market (correct me if I'm wrong). Fusion competes with Celeron, Pentium, and Core i3. Might compete with Core i5 by the time Trinity comes out.

Bulldozer is for servers and >$800 desktops, including enthusiast desktops.

While AMD probably doesn't make much money off expensive desktops, they probably make a TON off server customers.

Besides, as wonderful as Fusion is they need Bulldozer to restore their reputation.  
Then why does it beat intel in this video then? O_O    
 You Tube


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Then why does it beat intel in this video then? O_O http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74


It beats Intel because Intel has crap GPU. In things like rendering, that APU does remarkably bad.

Also, sorry for my ninja edit in my previous post... please read it


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


It beats Intel because Intel has crap GPU. In things like rendering, that APU does remarkably bad.

Also, sorry for my ninja edit in my previous post... please read it


Thanks, you're right, bulldozer is better. I hope it beats sandybridge, if not then I hope it's at least close to it. BTW, nice Avi.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Then why does it beat intel in this video then? O_O


That's mobile. Afaik, Bulldozer won't be featured in the mobile market at least until Trinity.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Thanks, you're right, bulldozer is better. I hope it beats sandybridge, if not then I hope it's at least close to it. BTW, nice Avi.


Thanks! To be honest, I was inspired to make that picture (I photoshopped it) by Seronx's post that said something along the lines of "AMD is going to bulldozer Intel into a corner, then piledrive them into the dirt" because a rumor claimed the code-name for BD-E (Bulldozer Enhanced) has been changed to "Piledriver".

It's pretty much a given that Bulldozer will beat the 2600k in multithreaded thinks like rendering thanks to its eight cores, the big question is will it come close in things that don't use more than four cores (such as gaming).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


That's mobile. Afaik, Bulldozer won't be featured in the mobile market at least until Trinity.


Well, it's not just that. That's really a 2600 underclocked to 2GHz (3GHz Turbo) (different socket and TDP etc, but the actual die is pretty much the same).


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623661*
> Thanks! To be honest, I was inspired to make that picture (I photoshopped it) by Seronx's post that said something along the lines of "AMD is going to bulldozer Intel into a corner, then piledrive them into the dirt" because a rumor claimed the code-name for BD-E (Bulldozer Enhanced) has been changed to "Piledriver".
> 
> It's pretty much a given that Bulldozer will beat the 2600k in multithreaded thinks like rendering thanks to its eight cores, the big question is will it come close in things that don't use more than four cores (such as gaming).


Ah, I love this thread already. Yeah,I also head that it's going go have "Hyperthreading" like features.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623674*
> Ah, I love this thread already. Yeah,I also head that it's going go have "Hyperthreading" like features.


The whole Bulldozer "needs moar cores!" philosophy is IIRC considered by AMD to be a better alternative to HyperThreading.

Really, BD has either four or eight FPUs... depends on the workload. It has eight integer cores either way, but if only one integer core in a module is being utilized it has a LOAD of resources, which is probably very beneficial. I wonder if something AMD has done forces one integer core in each module to activate in ≤4 threaded workloads, instead of having both integer cores in a module activate while an entire other module is idling... makes sense to me. Then again, idk if that's really feasible.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623695*
> The whole Bulldozer "needs moar cores!" philosophy is IIRC considered by AMD to be a better alternative to HyperThreading.
> 
> Really, BD has either four or eight FPUs... depends on the workload. It has eight integer cores either way, but if only one integer core in a module is being utilized it has a LOAD of resources, which is probably very beneficial. I wonder if something AMD has done forces one integer core in each module to activate in ≤4 threaded workloads, instead of having both integer cores in a module activate while an entire other module is idling... makes sense to me. Then again, idk if that's really feasible.


So you're saying that for AMD, more cores=better? O: I've always read on some comments on youtube and some other places that that(Can I use two "that's"?) is not true. o.o But you sound like you know what you're saying. So I trust you on that.


----------



## catharsis

IMO amd's philosophy of more cores would work great. But it needs to match or atleast come close to intels IPC's


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623710*
> So you're saying that for AMD, more cores=better? O: I've always read on some comments on youtube and some other places that that(Can I use two "that's"?) is not true. o.o But you sound like you know what you're saying. So I trust you on that.


It really depends what the program is coded for.

Most games, for example, are coded to use three cores. So in most games, a three-core CPU with a higher clock speed and/or more IPC (instructions per clock cycle), for example a Phenom II X3 pushed past 7GHz under liquid nitrogen or a mythical Core i3 2125k (unlocked multiplier) pushed to 5.5GHz will do better than an eight-core Bulldozer clocked at (some clock speed under 5GHz -- since we don't really know about Bulldozer's IPC... 5GHz if it's a decent improvement over Phenom II, much less if it competes with Sandy Bridge single-core). Since most people on OCN appear to be gamers, most people on here will be quick to point out AMD's comparably sub-par IPC (IN CURRENT PRODUCTS -- we are not certain about BD's single core performance yet).

However, if you're doing rendering or video encoding (just some common examples, a lot of other programs will use the cores), all of those cores will be utilized. In this case, an eight-core Bulldozer at 4GHz will run circles around an X3 at 7GHz or an i3 at 5.5GHz. The IPC doesn't matter nearly as much. This is where simply shoving more and more cores onto a chip is one of the easiest ways to boost performance, besides maybe a die shrink to improve clock speeds. In fact, in one of JF-AMD's recent blogs he showed how one server customer's program scaled almost linearly with more and more cores -- meaning their (server/workstation) system with four 12-core Opterons (the ones available today, Magny Cours) showed four times more throughput then when they only used one CPU.

That said, we're looking at a whole new architecture. Bulldozer isn't really just adding more cores, it's a whole new design which will likely greatly improve IPC among other things (such as memory bandwidth -- good luck stabilizing 1866 CL7 on your Athlon II X4, while BD's memory controller is officially spec'd to do that. For reference, the Phenom II X6 only officially supports DDR3 1333... so there is more to be had).


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623804*
> It really depends what the program is coded for.
> 
> Most games, for example, are coded to use three cores. So in most games, a three-core CPU with a higher clock speed and/or more IPC (instructions per clock cycle), for example a Phenom II X3 pushed past 7GHz under liquid nitrogen or a mythical Core i3 2125k (unlocked multiplier) pushed to 5.5GHz will do better than an eight-core Bulldozer clocked at (some clock speed under 5GHz -- since we don't really know about Bulldozer's IPC... 5GHz if it's a decent improvement over Phenom II, much less if it competes with Sandy Bridge single-core). Since most people on OCN appear to be gamers, most people on here will be quick to point out AMD's comparably sub-par IPC.
> 
> However, if you're doing rendering or video encoding (just some common examples, a lot of other programs will use the cores), all of those cores will be utilized. In this case, an eight-core Bulldozer at 4GHz will run circles around an X3 at 7GHz or an i3 at 5.5GHz. The IPC doesn't matter nearly as much. This is where simply shoving more and more cores onto a chip is one of the easiest ways to boost performance, besides maybe a die shrink to improve clock speeds. In fact, in one of JF-AMD's recent blogs he showed how one server customer's program scaled almost linearly with more and more cores -- meaning their (server/workstation) system with four 12-core Opterons (the ones available today, Magny Cours) showed four times more throughput then when they only used one CPU.
> 
> That said, we're looking at a whole new architecture. Bulldozer isn't really just adding more cores, it's a whole new design which will likely greatly improve IPC among other things (such as memory bandwidth -- good luck stabilizing 1866 CL7 on your Athlon II X4, while BD's memory controller is officially spec'd to do that. For reference, the Phenom II X6 only officially supports DDR3 1333... so there is more to be had).


Thank you, now I know the truth.







I never knew BD was using a whole new architecture.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623857*
> Thank you, now I know the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew BD was using a whole new architecture.


Glad to help.







Bulldozer really is a complete new architecture from the ground up... let me see if I can find some slides...

Here's an overview of the Bulldozer "module". There will be up to four for desktop on release, and up to eight for server. Each die will consist of a certain number of these modules, all connected to 8MB L3 cache for Zambezi (desktop) and Valencia (6-8 core, 1-2 processor server), HyperTransport 3.1, and integrated northbridge controller/memory controller (IMC). The thing that's blocked is L2 cache (2MB per module).










For comparison, here's a full single-core K10 CPU (Athlon II/Phenom II):










See the block on the bottom left? For each core added, just duplicate everything EXCEPT that. There's only one of those parts, no matter how many cores there are.


----------



## thenerdal

Thank you! I now feel like bulldozer will be as good as Sandy Bridge, or better! Only problem now is Ivy Bridge.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623936*
> Thank you! I now feel like bulldozer will be as good as Sandy Bridge, or better! Only problem now is Ivy Bridge.


Ivy Bridge = Sandy Bridge on 22nm process (shrink from 32nm).

So basically, Sandy Bridge with higher clocks and the $1000 model will have a couple more cores (maybe the $600 model will too). I'm sure $600+ CPUs are not a concern for AMD. By the way, Ivy Bridge will supposedly only be quad-core until late 2012/early 2013 when IB-E comes out. MAYBE we'll see a LGA 1155 hexacore. Not really that likely IMO, but we'll see.

Besides, not too long after Ivy Bridge comes out will see BD-E, aka Piledriver with up to 10 cores. In fact, Piledriver should come out before IB-E.

So, think of it this way (sorry for ninja edit): compare a 2600k at 4.2GHz to a 2600k at 5GHz. That's the difference between Sandy and Ivy (on the sub-$600 models).


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623966*
> Ivy Bridge = Sandy Bridge on 22nm process (shrink from 32nm).
> 
> So basically, Sandy Bridge with higher clocks and the $1000 model will have a couple more cores (maybe the $600 model will too). I'm sure $600+ CPUs are not a concern for AMD. By the way, Ivy Bridge will supposedly only be quad-core until late 2012/early 2013 when IB-E comes out. MAYBE we'll see a LGA 1155 hexacore. Not really that likely IMO, but we'll see.
> 
> Besides, not too long after Ivy Bridge comes out will see BD-E, aka Piledriver with up to 10 cores. In fact, Piledriver should come out before IB-E.


You know your stuff. :O I sent you a friend request incase I need more info on CPU's.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623985*
> You know your stuff. :O I sent you a friend request incase I need more info on CPU's.


lol, thanks. I'm sure there's quite a few people on here as knowledgeable as I am, though.

And I know there's at the very least one person that can probably make me look like a fool. His name is John.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624010*
> lol, thanks. I'm sure there's quite a few people on here as knowledgeable as I am, though.
> 
> And I know there's at the very least one person that can probably make me look like a fool. His name is John.


Lol, one more thing, do you know of any website that covers computer parts? Like a blog for computer parts? Like Gizmodo but for computer parts?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14624047*
> Lol, one more thing, do you know of any website that covers computer parts? Like a blog for computer parts? Like Gizmodo but for computer parts?


This section of Softpedia covers quite a bit. Not really a blog though, I mean if you're looking for news and such it's very informative but for the very specific details and/or opinionated stuff look elsewhere. Maybe HardOCP?

NINJA EDIT: URL fail









NINJA EDIT II: fixed


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624113*
> This section of Softpedia covers quite a bit. Not really a blog though, I mean if you're looking for news and such it's very informative but for the very specific details and/or opinionated stuff look elsewhere. Maybe HardOCP?
> 
> NINJA EDIT: URL fail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NINJA EDIT II: fixed


Ah, thank you.


----------



## Disturbed117

having a conversation


----------



## 2010rig

Hey you 2, get a room!









I'm subbed to this thread, and I keep getting emails about your very interesting convo.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14624169*
> Hey you 2, get a room!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm subbed to this thread, and I keep getting emails about your very interesting convo.*


same here


----------



## Evil Penguin

I'm lost...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14624169*
> Hey you 2, get a room!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm subbed to this thread, and I keep getting emails about your very interesting convo.


Haha, sorry. Wasn't most of it on topic enough though?


----------



## Disturbed117

ha, on a side note You may want to remove the profanity in your *ClickToLOL* Usario to avoid an infraction.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14624290*
> ha, on a side note You may want to remove the profanity in your *ClickToLOL* Usario to avoid an infraction.


Eh. I guess you're right, better to be on the safe side...


----------



## thenerdal

Sorry for the emails you guys, admins told me to talk about bulldozer here since my thread got closed.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623804*
> ...(such as memory bandwidth -- good luck stabilizing 1866 CL7 on your Athlon II X4, while BD's memory controller is officially spec'd to do that. For reference, the Phenom II X6 only officially supports DDR3 1333... so there is more to be had).


It should be fairly interesting to see IMC performance on BD I suspect. Being that the slight mem controller improvement on Thuban vs. my old 965, allows me to get 6-6-6-17 (1T) stable @ 1760. I hope it allows me to push these sticks closer to the rated performance.

On the other hand, I'm even more interested to see whether the IPC improvements are as good as we've hoped for. Time will tell, but I'm a little impatient after sitting on this board for a month. In addition, I have another quandary. Wait for BD, or go ahead and pick up 2 more sticks of ram I'll need for an 8150(70)P?

The internal debate is killing me, and the likelihood of finding another matching set of Hyper's is not very good...and I know who has 3 more sticks for sale that are not (and won't be) advertised.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14624369*
> It should be fairly interesting to see IMC performance on BD I suspect. Being that the slight mem controller improvement on Thuban vs. my old 965, allows me to get 6-6-6-17 (1T) stable @ 1760. I hope it allows me to push these sticks closer to the rated performance.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm even more interested to see whether the IPC improvements are as good as we've hoped for. Time will tell, but I'm a little impatient after sitting on this board for a month. In addition, I have another quandary. Wait for BD, or go ahead and pick up 2 more sticks of ram I'll need for an 8150(70)P?
> 
> The internal debate is killing me, and the likelihood of finding another matching set of Hyper's is not very good...and I know who has 3 more sticks for sale that are not (and won't be) advertised.


Looks like BD will have an excellent IMC, considering it's rated for 533MHz higher than Thuban's. If you go for BD, you'll probably be overclocking your RAM, heh.

I expect an IPC improvement of roughly 40%. But it's best to wait until launch before deciding IMO.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14623857*
> Thank you, now I know the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I never knew BD was using a whole new architecture*.


Where have you been for the last few years?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624010*
> lol, thanks. I'm sure there's quite a few people on here *as knowledgeable as I am*, though.
> 
> And I know there's at the very least one person that can probably make me look like a fool. His name is John.


Do you ever feel like you're being trolled...! lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624412*
> Looks like BD will have an excellent IMC, considering it's rated for 533MHz higher than Thuban's. If you go for BD, you'll probably be overclocking your RAM, heh.
> 
> I expect an IPC improvement of roughly *40%*. But it's best to wait until launch before deciding IMO.


40%?! I sincerely hope you're right, but it's hard to believe.


----------



## chasefrench

Is it true Piledriver is using FM1 socket? and therefore bulldozer is compatible with only one generation of am3+

what about enhanced bulldozer, not liking the idea of buying a 990fx board for only one generation of bulldozer.


----------



## purpleannex

Nothings 100% (as we've seen, those of us who've followed BD from the beginning lol), but they're talking about BDE being FM2, FM1 is for Llano.

So yeah, I came to the same conclusion, I have an AM2+ board (no BD compatablity), 990FX seems like a waste of money due to it's brevity, especially with better BD's around the corner... though AMD's around the corner is god knows when.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;14625693*
> Nothings 100% (as we've seen, those of us who've followed BD from the beginning lol), but they're talking about BDE being FM2, FM1 is for Llano.
> 
> So yeah, I came to the same conclusion, I have an AM2+ board (no BD compatablity), 990FX seems like a waste of money due to it's brevity, especially with better BD's around the corner... though AMD's around the corner is god knows when.


This has been really bothering me lately! I kind of feel like I should have waited instead of doing a bunch of impulse buying. Hopefully the difference between 990FX and whatever is after isn't so much or I'll probably cry myself to sleep for many nights to come.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14623966*
> Ivy Bridge = Sandy Bridge on 22nm process (shrink from 32nm).
> 
> So basically, Sandy Bridge with higher clocks and the $1000 model will have a couple more cores (maybe the $600 model will too). I'm sure $600+ CPUs are not a concern for AMD. By the way, Ivy Bridge will supposedly only be quad-core until late 2012/early 2013 when IB-E comes out. MAYBE we'll see a LGA 1155 hexacore. Not really that likely IMO, but we'll see.
> 
> Besides, not too long after Ivy Bridge comes out will see BD-E, aka Piledriver with up to 10 cores. In fact, Piledriver should come out before IB-E.
> 
> So, think of it this way (sorry for ninja edit): compare a 2600k at 4.2GHz to a 2600k at 5GHz. That's the difference between Sandy and Ivy (on the sub-$600 models).


Sandy bridge e :

2 6 cores at 999.99 and 589.99. One 4 core at 296.99

Ivy bridge :

22nm and 10-15% better ipc then sandy bridge :

4600k : 319.99
4500k : 219.99

Use on existing 6 series motherboards.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624412*
> Looks like BD will have an excellent IMC, considering it's rated for 533MHz higher than Thuban's. If you go for BD, you'll probably be overclocking your RAM, heh.
> 
> I expect an IPC improvement of roughly 40%. But it's best to wait until launch before deciding IMO.


This is probably the single biggest thing i'm interested in with BD. I know its not the most talked about aspect to the CPU but... think about this, where was RAM in 2003 (when this IMC was put into the CPU)? IIRC people were still using DDR (goodluck doing internet research on that one







).

Ideally it would mean that BD will work just as well (if not better) than SB on loose memory timings. It would also mean that they're cores on in parity with the rest of current gen technology. If the cores werent maxing out the bandwidth i dont think they'd need to bump the IMC. In desktop applications this means looser CL is ok in exchange for clocks, and cheaper ram becomes a viability. in server applications, we should see real improvement in performance with db workloads.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Saw this over on cpuforever http://cpuforever.com/Thread-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-B2-Stepping-CPUs-FX-8150-and-FX-8120-to-hit-retail-in-Q3-2011


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

this may be off topic but whatever..
So im wondering, since the current 6 series intel boards (z68) will be able to do pcie3.0 via a bios update for ivy bridge,
Will bulldozer ever have this type of possiblity? Is the pcie lanes on board the cpu like sandybridge? or is in the Northbrige, on the 990fx? If it is on the northbridge can it be upgraded to run at pcie3.0 specs via a bios update?

I know that pcie3.0 is still really early, but if rumors are true both amd and nvidia will be putting out pcie3.0 cards.. and intel will hae it on SB-E and ivy...so just trying to be future proofed
thanks


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14623778*
> IMO amd's philosophy of more cores would work great. But it needs to match or atleast come close to intels IPC's


No, it doesn't. AMD just needs developers to actually code for more cores. The AMD hexacores would have been signficantly faster then the i7 quads, clock for clock, if games/every day apps just utilized the extra cores.

AMD is only going to be successful with the core battle (on the client side) if the majority of client users actually use the cores. It is similar to desktop GPU issues, where the hardware is excellent but the software is horrendously inefficent.


----------



## [T]yphoon

so uhm, lets hack their blog and turn it into a Intel Sandy Bridge (-E) blog









EDIT: i wanted to post something, clicked on submit and got this: Sorry, comments are closed for this item.
looks like its not so "live" anymore







its Read-Only now


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep*


Sandy bridge e :

2 6 cores at 999.99 and 589.99. One 4 core at 296.99

Ivy bridge :

22nm and 10-15% better ipc then sandy bridge :

4600k : 319.99
4500k : 219.99

Use on existing 6 series motherboards.


The 15% IPC boost is utter BS. It's impossible for a die shrink.

With all the BD fakes circulating, why would you just blindly believe an Ivy Bridge leak?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purpleannex*


40%?! I sincerely hope you're right, but it's hard to believe.


Phenom II = 3 ALUs, 3 AGUs

Bulldozer = 4 ALUs, 4 AGLUs (that's right, AGLUs... that's not a typo)

With the new AVX and FMA4 instructions, unless there's problems with the cache and such Bulldozer will *probably* provide an excellent single-core boost.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


This is probably the single biggest thing i'm interested in with BD. I know its not the most talked about aspect to the CPU but... think about this, where was RAM in 2003 (when this IMC was put into the CPU)? IIRC people were still using DDR (goodluck doing internet research on that one







).

Ideally it would mean that BD will work just as well (if not better) than SB on loose memory timings. It would also mean that they're cores on in parity with the rest of current gen technology. If the cores werent maxing out the bandwidth i dont think they'd need to bump the IMC. In desktop applications this means looser CL is ok in exchange for clocks, and cheaper ram becomes a viability. in server applications, we should see real improvement in performance with db workloads.


True. Same thing with Llano.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


this may be off topic but whatever..
So im wondering, since the current 6 series intel boards (z68) will be able to do pcie3.0 via a bios update for ivy bridge, 
Will bulldozer ever have this type of possiblity? Is the pcie lanes on board the cpu like sandybridge? or is in the Northbrige, on the 990fx? If it is on the northbridge can it be upgraded to run at pcie3.0 specs via a bios update?

I know that pcie3.0 is still really early, but if rumors are true both amd and nvidia will be putting out pcie3.0 cards.. and intel will hae it on SB-E and ivy...so just trying to be future proofed
thanks


No. For AMD, PCI-E is in the northbridge (that's why AMD offers so many more lanes). Rumor says BD-E will have an integrated northbridge, though, which would put PCI-E on the CPU.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The 15% IPC boost is utter BS. It's impossible for a die shrink.

With all the BD fakes circulating, why would you just blindly believe an Ivy Bridge leak?


It isn't just a die shrink though.

The only reason the bulldozer leaks are considered fake by many is because the performance is lower than they're expecting.

At this point the leaks are even more valid because of the delay.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The only reason the bulldozer leaks are considered fake by many is because the performance is lower than they're expecting.


That and the fact that the moron leaking them admitted that they were fake.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It isn't just a die shrink though.


So what is it then? It's going from 32nm to 22nm Tri-Gate. That's all. Also two more cores for IB-E, but core count doesn't effect IPC.

Quote:



The only reason the bulldozer leaks are considered fake by many is because the performance is lower than they're expecting.

At this point the leaks are even more valid because of the delay.


Are you forgetting all of the positive fakes? Like 12 points in Cinebench at 3GHz (and overclockability up to 6GHz for 23 points) or 82000 in PCMark?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


That and the fact that the moron leaking them admitted that they were fake.


This.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Hey you 2, get a room!









I'm subbed to this thread, and I keep getting emails about your very interesting convo.










I'm subb'ed too but I don't have email notification checked. As many threads as I'm subb'ed to it would take forever to clear my email of all the notifications.









~Ceadder


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


So what is it then? It's going from 32nm to 22nm Tri-Gate. That's all. Also two more cores for IB-E, but core count doesn't effect IPC.

Are you forgetting all of the positive fakes? Like 12 points in Cinebench at 3GHz (and overclockability up to 6GHz for 23 points) or 82000 in PCMark?

This.


This isn't an Ivy Bridge discussion.

Choose to believe what you may, chips were released/sold, leaks were reported, performance was low, nda was breached, release was delayed.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


This isn't an Ivy Bridge discussion.

Choose to believe what you may, chips were released/sold, leaks were reported, performance was low, nda was breached, release was delayed.


I am going to choose to believe what I know. I am more than happy waiting for Bulldozer.

I am not saying anything more than that, but I would be willing to make a friendly sig bet with you. You game?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I am going to choose to believe what I know. I am more than happy waiting for Bulldozer.

I am not saying anything more than that, but I would be willing to make a friendly sig bet with you. You game?


I'm willing to bet that AMD doesn't meet their 60 - 90 Day availability, and have known this for a while.

I know you were talking to Balla though, so carry on.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm willing to bet that AMD doesn't meet their 60 - 90 Day availability, and have known this for a while.


Performance bets only, sorry.


----------



## jck

I'll bet you:

AMD will release it when they are ready to.









I'm willing to wait too. I am going to build a machine toward the end of the year that will be my power machine for the next 12-24 months. I want to see the Bulldozer benchmarks (from a few sources, so it's not only presented in product literature from AMD but also confirmed by multiple independent sources), and then I will determine whether to:

a) build my macdaddy Bulldozer rig
b) look at SB/SB-E post-Thanksgiving
c) wait for IB in 2012
d) wait for EB (Enhanced Bulldozer) in 2012

"The waiting is the hardest part." - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I am going to choose to believe what I know. I am more than happy waiting for Bulldozer.

I am not saying anything more than that, but I would be willing to make a friendly sig bet with you. You game?


I'm not even sure what you're actually talking about.

Also what does sig bet mean?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Performance bets only, sorry.


I'm willing to bet.

*IPC*: SB > BD
*Multi-Threaded*: BD > SB


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm willing to bet that AMD doesn't meet their 60 - 90 Day availability, and have known this for a while.

I know you were talking to Balla though, so carry on.










I hope they do release it before Christmas. If not, I'm ditching Bulldozer and grabbing a 1090T and pushing that sucker to 4GHz. I've been waiting for bulldozer for nearly a year and a half and don't quite feel like waiting anymore.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm willing to bet.

*IPC*: SB > BD
*Multi-Threaded*: BD > SB


BulldozerV








^Sandybridge
Sandybridge's nads are gonna get a pounding of the worst kind. Pologize but I couldn't find any Piledriving Bullozer Gifs.









~Ceadder


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm not even sure what you're actually talking about.

Also what does sig bet mean?


A sig bet is when you put something stupid in your sig claiming that the other person was right.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm willing to bet.

*IPC*: SB > BD
*Multi-Threaded*: BD > SB


You're on. The bet is that Bulldozer is far better than those "leaks" we have seen.

Edit: You pick the sig.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


You're on. The bet is that Bulldozer is far better than those "leaks" we have seen.


Bulldozer has to be better than the leaks we have seen right?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Are you forgetting all of the positive fakes? Like 12 points in Cinebench at 3GHz (and overclockability up to 6GHz for 23 points) or 82000 in PCMark?


If this is what you're saying BD will beat, then you're on.

Also, my bet didn't mention leaks. I said this.

*IPC:* SB > BD
*Multi-Threaded:* BD > SB


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Bulldozer has to be better than the leaks we have seen right?









If this is what you're saying BD will beat, then you're on.

Also, my bet didn't mention leaks. I said this.

*IPC:* SB > BD
*Multi-Threaded:* BD > SB


I missed that. I was too busy concentrating on what Balla was talking about. I'll still take the bet though.

Edit: Not the one based on fake benchmarks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I missed that. I was too busy concentrating on what Balla was talking about. I'll still take the bet though.

Edit: Not the one based on fake benchmarks.


You're going to bet bulldozer per core performance exceeds Sandy Bridge, and will deliver twice the core count as well for nearly the same price?

Edit: Basically you're saying AMD is going to "conroe" Intel?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


You're going to bet bulldozer per core performance exceeds Sandy Bridge, and will deliver twice the core count as well for nearly the same price?


Match, in gaming.

Edit: It's a sig. What do I care?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How are you going to measure that?

Crysis 1 at 800x600?

What limits on the OC/cooling would be in place?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How are you going to measure that?

Crysis 1 at 800x600?

What limits on the OC/cooling would be in place?


I think that should be determined when the chip launches.


----------



## 2010rig

Ok, you and Balla carry on with what ever bet you're making.

I'll just...


----------



## iggydogg

you guys should go look at the latest BD vs SB results at chiphell before making bets


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Ok, you and Balla carry on with what ever bet you're making.

I'll just...











Bwahahaha...you made me lol too.









I guess I will...

stare...


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


you guys should go look at the latest BD vs SB results at chiphell before making bets


I have no idea what you're talking about, but I am willing to bet on the chip that you can pick up in a store on launch day.

I don't put faith in leaks whether they're for or against my argument. I'm not sure which category these results you're talking about fall under, but it doesn't matter to me.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


you guys should go look at the latest BD vs SB results at chiphell before making bets


Link?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


link?


x2


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Logical view of IPC:

Server chips are reported to provide either a 35% boost in performance per over 12 core mangy or 50% depending on who you talk to at AMD.

The 16 core bulldozer chip has 33% more cores than the 12 core Mangy.

Now since we don't have clock speeds confirmed, we'll just assume that they're the same... Which they're probably not, I'm sure bulldozer is clocking higher with the new turbo design and well as a smaller fab.

However for "best case" we'll say they're both clocked exactly the same.

Simple math, may be totally wrong.

We'll use 100% for 12 cores of Mangy.

100/12 = 8.33 per core

First we'll see what 50% does for us... So..

150/16 = 9.38 per core

Difference per core - 12.5% improvement

The other figure we got from the CEO is 35% increase.

135/16 = 8.44 per core

Difference per core - 1.3% improvement

Depending on how AMD got their own numbers and what the clock rates were, this could either mean they lost IPC, or had a small improvement while adding additional cores. Or it could possibly be meaningless.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14633991*
> Logical view of IPC:
> 
> Server chips are reported to provide either a 35% boost in performance per over 12 core mangy or 50% depending on who you talk to at AMD.
> 
> The 16 core bulldozer chip has 33% more cores than the 12 core Mangy.
> 
> Now since we don't have clock speeds confirmed, we'll just assume that they're the same... Which they're probably not, I'm sure bulldozer is clocking higher with the new turbo design and well as a smaller fab.
> 
> However for "best case" we'll say they're both clocked exactly the same.
> 
> Simple math, may be totally wrong.
> 
> We'll use 100% for 12 cores of Mangy.
> 
> 100/12 = 8.33 per core
> 
> First we'll see what 50% does for us... So..
> 
> 150/16 = 9.38 per core
> 
> Difference per core - 12.5% improvement
> 
> The other figure we got from the CEO is 35% increase.
> 
> 135/16 = 8.44 per core
> 
> Difference per core - 1.3% improvement
> 
> Depending on how AMD got their own numbers and what the clock rates were, this could either mean they lost IPC, or had a small improvement while adding additional cores. Or it could possibly be meaningless.


Remember that the 50% number was specifically for throughput, and then 35% "faster".

I speculate "faster" refers to per core speed, while throughput is how much work you can get the chip to do.

Of course I could be wrong.

Architectural details suggest an increase of roughly 35%, so this would make sense. And of course in AVX and FMA4 workloads there will probably be an even greater increase.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14634042*
> Sorry guys,heres the link
> strange results though
> AMD FX-8150 VS Intel i7 2600K


222w TDP for the 8 core BD in CPUID? That can't be right


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14634048*
> Architectural details suggest an increase of roughly 35%, so this would make sense. And of course in AVX and FMA4 workloads there will probably be an even greater increase.


I didn't know you designed cpus, tell us more please.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634099*
> I didn't know you designed cpus, tell us more please.


I've explained it quite a few times, and every time you choose to ignore me.

Here's just a quick explanation:

Phenom II = 3 ALUs, 3 AGUs
Nehalem/Sandy Bridge = 4 ALUs, 4 AGUs
Bulldozer = 4 ALUs, 4 AGLUs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14634073*
> 222w TDP for the 8 core BD in CPUID? That can't be right


Engineering samples are crap.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14634042*
> Sorry guys,heres the link
> strange results though
> AMD FX-8150 VS Intel i7 2600K


Whenever I try to look at the images, I see this:










And clicking on the download link leads to a 404 page


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634099*
> I didn't know you designed cpus, tell us more please.


Hi Balla;

From an arch perspective Bulldozer is a very interesting, efficient and effective design. It should come close to either matching or exceeding the 2600K. Now, how it is implemented is a different matter, which is why we have to wait. From a design perspective BD is a different approach and in my opinion a better design.

An arch design discussion contrasting SB and BD would be entertaining to say the least. I am working too much lately and I need a few laughs.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14634264*
> Hi Balla;
> 
> From an arch perspective Bulldozer is a very interesting, efficient and effective design. It should come close to either matching or exceeding the 2600K. Now, how it is implemented is a different matter, which is why we have to wait. From a design perspective BD is a different approach and in my opinion a better design.
> 
> An arch design discussion contrasting SB and BD would be entertaining to say the least. I am working too much lately and I need a few laughs.


Eight Phenom II cores @ 4GHz would beat an i7-2600k @ 5GHz, at least in Cinebench.

It would still be the same Phenom II performance in gaming though, which leaves a lot to be desired.

We'll see how well it pans out, excepting at least seventeen or more once OC'ed in Cinebench or it won't matter to me.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634376*
> Eight Phenom II cores @ 4GHz would beat an i7-2600k @ 5GHz, at least in Cinebench.
> 
> It would still be the same Phenom II performance in gaming though, which leaves a lot to be desired.
> 
> We'll see how well it pans out, excepting at least seventeen or more once OC'ed in Cinebench or it won't matter to me.


Considering Thuban at 4.5GHz doesn't even get eight in Cinebench, BD probably won't matter to you.

Let's say BD clocks the same as SB and has the same IPC (very good scenario).

Look at module/core scaling. HyperThreading's advantage/disadvantage varies from program to program; 2600k is 10% faster than 2500k in Cinebench so I'll go by that.

BD: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690

2600k: 110 + 105 + 100 + 95 = 410

So if BD has similar IPC and clocks similarly, it will only be about 70% faster than the 2600k in Cinebench.

I believe that's around 15.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Actually the i7-2600k is about 20% faster in Cinebench, clock for clock.

I wonder what else you got wrong...

Lets say Bulldozer has the same IPC and clocks the same as SB (lol) - AMD has a $1000 chip on their hands. A bulldozer cpu will pretty much equal a $1000 SBe chip.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634668*
> Actually the i7-2600k is about 20% faster in Cinebench, clock for clock.
> 
> I wonder what else you got wrong...
> 
> Lets say Bulldozer has the same IPC and clocks the same as SB (lol) - AMD has a $1000 chip on their hands. A bulldozer cpu will pretty much equal a $1000 SBe chip.


Yeah,no. No company would price X at $1,000 when brand Y sells it for $300.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14634785*
> Yeah,no. No company would price X at $1,000 when brand Y sells it for $300.


What?

Last time AMD had a fast enough chip to warrant $1000 it was an FX cpu.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Either its equal to SB or nearly as fast core for core clock for clock, with more cores, and is a $1000 chip, or it isn't and its a eight core cpu under $400.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634668*
> Actually the i7-2600k is about 20% faster in Cinebench, clock for clock.


see attachment (attachment fail, hold on a sec fixed)

I don't know where to find a comparison between the 2500k and 2600k in 11.5, sorry if the difference is noticeably different there... but that only further proves that your expectations are unrealistic.
Quote:


> I wonder what else you got wrong...
> 
> Lets say Bulldozer has the same IPC and clocks the same as SB (lol) - AMD has a $1000 chip on their hands. A bulldozer cpu will pretty much equal a $1000 SBe chip.


Again, that proves that your expectations are unrealistic. You want a chip almost twice as fast as the 2600k for the same price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix;14634717*
> What AMD needs to do is stop fitting more cores, and beat Intel by putting a arse-whipping Integrated Memory Controller on there CPU's that would of put the Phenom II X6 at the top of the league!
> 
> But noo...... If AMD has put a IMC equivilant to a Phenom II, I'm going Intel.












Not only does the IMC not matter much unless you're using WinRAR all the time, BD's IMC is rated for RAM 533MHz higher than PhII's (1866 vs 1333)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

No I want people to wake up.

Either it's a $1000 chip that is nearly as fast or faster than SBe, or it's a $400 chip that has lower IPC and more cores.


----------



## jln1

nice, thank you, I still waiting for it


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14632207*
> You're going to bet bulldozer per core performance exceeds Sandy Bridge, and will deliver twice the core count as well for nearly the same price?
> 
> Edit: Basically you're saying AMD is going to "conroe" Intel?


Why not? its been almost the same amount of time in the works as conroe


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635090*
> There you go. Intel's $2xx chip blew AMD's $1000 chip out of the water.
> 
> But Bulldozer can't possibly be better than SB unless it's $1000 right?


You're looking at it wrong.

2010rig and I have shown before that AMD did better, both in sales, and in income when they had the $1000 chips despite what Intel was doing with OEMs like Dell.

If AMD really has the "Conroe" to Intels SBe, then expect pricing to reflect that.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635130*
> You're looking at it wrong.
> 
> 2010rig and I have shown before that AMD did better, both in sales, and in income when they had the $1000 chips despite what Intel was doing with OEMs like Dell.
> 
> If AMD really has the "Conroe" to Intels SBe, then expect pricing to reflect that.


I think I'm looking at it right. AMD today needs to build back reputation before they can expect to sell a $1000 dollar chip.

Not to mention that today's economy, and the demand for microchips, is in a totally different situation than it was back then.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635195*
> I think I'm looking at it right. AMD today needs to build back reputation before they can expect to sell a $1000 dollar chip.
> 
> Not to mention that today's economy, and the demand for microchips, is in a totally different situation than it was back then.


A chip that cost $1000 and is worthy of that price tag will bring all the rep they need.

Not sure I follow you on the economy aspect of it. Intel seems to be making quite a bit more money while having higher priced CPUs.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635234*
> A chip that cost $1000 and is worthy of that price tag will bring all the rep they need.
> 
> Not sure I follow you on the economy aspect of it. Intel seems to be making quite a bit more money while having higher priced CPUs.


True, but a very small portion of the money Intel is making is coming from those $1000 CPU's.

Let's go to enhanced BD. How do you know those won't be the $1000 CPU's to compete with SB-e.

They come out with BD to beat SB, then release that for SB-e. That sounds like good marketing strategy to me.

That's purely speculation, but so is this whole conversation.


----------



## Usario

For Bulldozer to beat SB-E, it will need to be more than 40% faster than the 2600k. Its IPC will need to be roughly 40% or faster than Phenom II, and it will need to hit 5GHz on air. Either that or it will need to clock insanely high, like 6GHz+.

I predict Bulldozer falling between the 2600k and 3930k, likely a bit closer to the latter.

Oh yeah, remember that the original Athlon 64s weren't $1000. It took a while for the FXs to come out.

BD-E or NGBD might have a $1000 model.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How do you know that though? The only person who has said anything about something like that came from JF.

Let's wait for BD to come out before we speculate about BDe.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14635330*
> For Bulldozer to beat SB-E, it will need to be more than 40% faster than the 2600k. Its IPC will need to be roughly 40% or faster than Phenom II, and it will need to hit 5GHz on air. Either that or it will need to clock insanely high, like 6GHz+.
> 
> I predict Bulldozer falling between the 2600k and 3930k, likely a bit closer to the latter.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624412*
> I expect an IPC improvement of roughly 40%. But it's best to wait until launch before deciding IMO.


Which is it?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635365*
> Which is it?


I said *more* than 40%, AND overclocking past 5GHz on air.

Again, core scaling:

BD: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
SB: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 (these numbers vary slightly because of HyperThreading) = 510
SB-E: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 705

**THIS IS WITH THE SAME CLOCK SPEEDS AND IPC, AND BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR HYPERTHREADING**


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635349*
> How do you know that though? The only person who has said anything about something like that came from JF.
> 
> Let's wait for BD to come out before we speculate about BDe.


You are treating it as if Bulldozer is AMD's last chip. They can work up to $1000 chips with other previously announced releases. The best thing for AMD is to release a SB killer next. SB-e isn't out yet either.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14635420*
> usario is like seronx .. he makes so much wild guesses that one of them is bound to be right
> 
> LOL


lol, at least my explanations make some sense









BD's IPC improvement will vary on the workload

For example, we may see 35% in SSE workloads and 50%++ in workloads that will take advantage of FMA4


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635405*
> You are treating it as if Bulldozer is AMD's last chip. They can work up to $1000 chips with other previously announced releases. The best thing for AMD is to release a SB killer next. SB-e isn't out yet either.


Eh?

If AMDs pricing history is any indication - if it doesn't beat SB by enough the updated chips will end up costing less than the initial released chips which will also cost less than they did a release.

The 1090T price dropped 23% in less than 9 months.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635443*
> Eh?
> 
> If AMDs pricing history is any indication - if it doesn't beat SB by enough the updated chips will end up costing less than the initial released chips which will also cost less than they did a release.
> 
> The 1090T price dropped 23% in less than 9 months.


There is your problem, you are comparing this to thuban. There is no comparison there. They didn't pull the FX name back out to release a Phenom III.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635412*
> Again it's not the same thing. You'd have to compare a i7-8xx to Gulftown for closer comparison.
> 
> Gulftown was still triple channel with only a slightly improved IMC.
> 
> SB to SBe includes two more cores and quad channel ddr3 vs dual channel.


Okay, that's a 41.6% difference in Cinebench. So I was still very close.

Also, see the edit I made to the post you quoted -- I had not seen your second post. Also see my last post on the previous page; BD's IPC improvement will vary based on the instructions that your workloads will take advantage of.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635460*
> There is your problem, you are comparing this to thuban. There is no comparison there. They didn't pull the FX name back out to release a Phenom III.


Maybe they put FX on the box because their shares at lower than they've ever been and their sales are down?

Marketing?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635473*
> Maybe they put FX on the box because their shares at lower than they've ever been and their sales are down?
> 
> Marketing?


I have to admit this is not an impossibility; AMD has a pretty good marketing team.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635473*
> Maybe they put FX on the box because their shares at lower than they've ever been and their sales are down?
> 
> Marketing?


That would actually be marketing suicide. Nobody who remembers the FX name will buy this without knowing what it is capable of.

They wouldn't resurrect there strongest marketing tactic to release a piece of crap under it. It would leave a permanent bad taste in consumer's mouths.

I don't think that they are looking to drive consumers away.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635527*
> That would actually be marketing suicide. Nobody who remembers the FX name will buy this without knowing what it is capable of.
> 
> They wouldn't resurrect there strongest marketing tactic to release a piece of crap under it. It would leave a permanent bad taste in consumer's mouths.
> 
> I don't think that they are looking to drive consumers away.


All they'd have to do is match or exceed the i7-2600k in multithreading for the name to "stick".

That doesn't require any crazy overclocking potential nor does it include a 40% IPC gain.

All they need to do is pack eight cores on pretty much exactly the same socket as AM2+ and AM3 for that to happen.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635553*
> All they'd have to do is match or exceed the i7-2600k in multithreading for the name to "stick".
> 
> That doesn't require any crazy overclocking potential nor does it include a 40% IPC gain.
> 
> All they need to do is pack eight cores on pretty much exactly the same socket as AM2+ and AM3 for that to happen.


All of there marketing so far is aiming this at gamers. They have to beat SB in gaming.

Edit: or at least equal. At the very least.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635553*
> All they'd have to do is match or exceed the i7-2600k in multithreading for the name to "stick".
> 
> That doesn't require any crazy overclocking potential nor does it include a 40% IPC gain.
> 
> All they need to do is pack eight cores on pretty much exactly the same socket as AM2+ and AM3 for that to happen.


This is very true.

32nm eight-core Phenom II (or I guess at that point it would be Phenom III?) would probably overclock almost as well as the 2600k, though. Doesn't really matter, just pointing that out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14635567*
> All of there marketing so far is aiming this at gamers. They have to beat SB in gaming.
> 
> Edit: or at least equal. At the very least.


To equal SB in gaming they need 40% IPC boost. Most games only use three cores.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Given the amount of games that can use eight threads --- well I'd like to see that happen.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14635584*
> Given the amount of games that can use eight threads --- well I'd like to see that happen.


Battlefield 3, for example, will use eight threads, so it's entirely possible. But there is a point where games simply can't multithread anymore. If you're cooking, it's easier to have one person chop (insert ingredient here), another person stir (insert liquid here), another person... umm.... boil water?, etc. but eventually you have enough people and you can't have two people stir one pot.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14635580*
> To equal SB in gaming they need 40% IPC boost. Most games only use three cores.


I'm quite sure that AMD knows what it needs to do the things they're marketing it to do.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14635611*
> *Battlefield 3, for example, will use eight threads*, so it's entirely possible. But there is a point where games simply can't multithread anymore. If you're cooking, it's easier to have one person chop (insert ingredient here), another person stir (insert liquid here), another person... umm.... boil water?, etc. but eventually you have enough people and you can't have two people stir one pot.


this has been confirmed???

i hope so .. because i have it on pre-order


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14635611*
> Battlefield 3, for example, will use eight threads, so it's entirely possible. But there is a point where games simply can't multithread anymore. If you're cooking, it's easier to have one person chop (insert ingredient here), another person stir (insert liquid here), another person... umm.... boil water?, etc. but eventually you have enough people and you can't have two people stir one pot.


BF3 will use a limited number of threads to render, the rest will be used for Physics which scales much better than rendering with more threads.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I like my i5-2500k, but it could be a lot faster still.

If AMD can do something amazing here I'm all for it. It's a win for everyone.

It's not like my i5-2500k will be any slower if AMD is faster, it will just mean there is another option in my price range that offers more performance


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14635682*
> If they weren't, I wouldn't own one.
> 
> We're not comparing performance right now, we're comparing marketing. AMD markets the Phenom II X4 as an ultra-high-end chip when it's not. So don't judge BD by AMD's marketing.


It is a high end gaming chip for a Phenom. FX is a completely different story.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14636720*
> I'm not arguing against that. *But if we're going to be making predictions, I'll make the most accurate prediction I can.*
> 
> lol


how can they be accurate if you dont know how the rest of the architecture behaves???


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14636818*
> how can they be accurate if you dont know how the rest of the architecture behaves???


They're as accurate as any prediction from someone who doesn't work for AMD or a board partner is going to get.

Or wait, are we forbidden from making predictions?







cuz I'm not the only one making them.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14636818*
> how can they be accurate if you dont know how the rest of the architecture behaves???


It's like playing chess or go. You can know the idea of the opponent's strategies, but never know what's going on in their mind. To make the next move you just have to roll with and make the best of what you have. He's not claiming to *absolutely know* what is going to happen, just that from what he understands _y_ will behave in a certain way because of _x_.

Was it *really* that hard for everyone to follow Usario and Seronx?









Also, I invite all trolls to go jump off a lake.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14636887*
> It's like playing chess or go. You can know the idea of the opponent's strategies, but never know what's going on in their mind. To make the next move you just have to roll with and make the best of what you have. He's not claiming to *absolutely know* what is going to happen, just that from what he understands _y_ will behave in a certain way because of _x_.
> 
> Was it *really* that hard for everyone to follow Usario *and Seronx?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I invite all trolls to go jump off a lake.


In response to the bolded part: yes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14636818*
> how can they be accurate if you dont know how the rest of the architecture behaves???


Much more accurate than something like "since AMD has bad IPC now, they can't instantly have such great IPC"


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14636993*
> In response to the bolded part: yes.
> 
> Much more accurate than something like "since AMD has bad IPC now, they can't instantly have such great IPC"


Okay _maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe_ Seronx was a little hard to follow, but I'm a little off my rocker and just roll with the punches a lot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14582952*
> Doesn't anyone know when BD will be lunched ?


I would also like to know this now. Ugh. It needs to be out naooooooo.


----------



## thenerdal

I'm a CPU newb, but what is IPC and from rumors, will the BD have better IPC than Sandy Bridge?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14637035*
> I'm a CPU newb, but what is IPC and from rumors, will the BD have better IPC than Sandy Bridge?


1) Instructions per clock cycle (clocks in Hz). Very important.

For example:

Phenom II (~3 IPC) at 6GHz is slower than Sandy Bridge (I'm not 100% sure about the IPC, isn't it like >4, ≤4.5?) at 4.5 GHz.

2) Maybe. Maybe not. We'll see. I think it can come close, but of course you have to consider things like instruction cache misses.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14637035*
> I'm a CPU newb, but what is IPC and from rumors, will the BD have better IPC than Sandy Bridge?


Instructions per clock (or was it cycle?...).
And I don't think anyone knows because there aren't any benchmarks out yet. Well, _legitimate_ benchmarks. (I mean that going by Bulldozer CPU's that are not engineering samples. Are the ES benchies even real?







)


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637090*
> 1) Instructions per clock cycle (clocks in Hz). Very important.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Phenom II (~3 IPC) at 6GHz is slower than Sandy Bridge (I'm not 100% sure about the IPC, isn't it like >4, ≤4.5?) at 4.5 GHz.
> 
> 2) Maybe. Maybe not. We'll see. I think it can come close, but of course you have to consider things like instruction cache misses.


What's instruction cache misses?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14637113*
> What's instruction cache misses?


An instruction cache read miss is when the CPU fails to find the instruction it needs to execute in the cache. Cache is very, VERY fast compared to other memory, so it takes longer for the instruction to be executed when it has to be found in main system RAM.

If cache misses happen often, IPC is reduced.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637148*
> An instruction cache read miss is when the CPU fails to find the instruction it needs to execute in the cache. Cache is very, VERY fast compared to other memory, so it takes longer for the instruction to be executed when it has to be found in main system RAM.
> 
> If cache misses happen often, IPC is reduced.


Ah, thanks.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14636114*
> There are many variables beyond the numbers I wrote that AMD could epically fail in.
> 
> Cache, for example.


Primarily if the instruction mixed does not match the design criteria


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637148*
> An instruction cache read miss is when the CPU fails to find the instruction it needs to execute in the cache. Cache is very, VERY fast compared to other memory, so it takes longer for the instruction to be executed when it has to be found in main system RAM.
> 
> If cache misses happen often, IPC is reduced.


This is very important.

If the cache misses are high the design will not work well no matter what the clocking capabilities is as the processor will be encountering stalls

BD may be able to eliminate a move instruction for register transfer (f.g)
Load move load
Load transfer by shifting - Neat trick if possible

1 256 register split into two 128 register in lieu of move shift from one to another no need to access memory very very fast - We will see -


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14637257*
> well he kept saying that he understood the architecture and that it will give certain % of performance because of certain things .. yet agree with me that he doesnt know the whole underlying architecture
> 
> and i agree with the bolded part


I never stated anything as fact.
Quote:


> there's a big difference from prediction .. to total guessing .. and what you are doing is guessing ...
> 
> but ok guess all you want .. but dont try to make it look like its based on hard evidence


It's not total guessing. Total guessing is what these people:
Quote:


> LOL well of course .. but most people that says that are *intel fanboys* ... they dont see amd doing great things anyway


are doing.

I'm simply taking the number of execution units and pipelines in the integer core and not modifying any other variables from the existing Phenom II architecture. That gets you 35%. Anything BESIDES that is a wild guess rather than an estimate, because we know nothing about how good the cache design is, if the pipelines will be better utilized, how much of an improvement AVX, CVT16, XOP, and FMA4 will bring in specifically coded applications, etc.
Quote:


> its best to wait for the retail product to launch so we will have hard numbers instead of hear say


This is completely true. All I'm doing is trying to give a more logical prediction than those of others.
Quote:


> but you have to take into account how the program is coded too .. it will effect the real world ipc in the end ...
> 
> its not just on paper that counts ...












For example, BD will do better in an FMA workload than an SSE workload
Quote:


> ohh btw .. where is seronx ... its been a couple of days since we saw him right???


Seronxadamus is off writing prophecies regarding AMD and the year 2012.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14637281*
> This is very important.
> 
> If the cache misses are high the design will not work well no matter what the clocking capabilities is as the processor will be encountering stalls
> 
> BD may be able to eliminate a move instruction for register transfer (f.g)
> Load move load
> Load transfer by shifting - Neat trick if possible
> 
> 1 256 register split into two 128 register in lieu of move shift from one to another no need to access memory very very fast - We will see -


Hopefully all will be well... that's an excellent idea BTW


----------



## Kmon

All is well, but very busy travelling for work way too much.

Thanks for asking


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14624010*
> lol, thanks. *I'm sure there's quite a few people on here as knowledgeable as I am, though.*
> 
> And I know there's at the very least one person that can probably make me look like a fool. His name is John.


in one post your saying your not sure if it will beat the 2600K yet you go on making prediction that it will be 35% faster by making SWAGs about the execution pipeline and using the phenom II architecture as a base ... yet its a brand new architecture so there are other variables in there to account for to wich you dont ...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637339*
> I never stated anything as fact.
> 
> It's not total guessing. Total guessing is what these people:
> 
> are doing.
> 
> *I'm simply taking the number of execution units and pipelines in the integer core and not modifying any other variables from the existing Phenom II architecture.* *That gets you 35%*.
> 
> This is completely true. All I'm doing is trying to give a more logical prediction than those of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example, BD will do better in an FMA workload than an SSE workload
> 
> Seronxadamus is off writing prophecies regarding AMD and the year 2012.
> 
> Hopefully all will be well... that's an excellent idea BTW


http://www.chip-architect.com/ good website to look at about cpu architecture info and stuff pertaining to that interest


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14637516*
> in one post your saying your not sure if it will beat the 2600K yet you go on making prediction that it will be 35% faster by making SWAGs about the execution pipeline and using the phenom II architecture as a base ... yet its a brand new architecture so there are other variables in there to account for to wich you dont ...


No. I said I wasn't sure if it would beat the 2600k in *single-threaded.* As I've said before, a Phenom II X8 would be a bit faster than a 2600k in multithreaded. And considering that if such a chip existed, it would likely be a new stepping 32nm Phenom III... you get the picture.

I'm using the Phenom II architecture as a base for a near worst case scenario estimate, which is in the computer world usually the safest estimate.

We could argue about this forever. Let's just end it with *NO PREDICTION IS VERY CLOSE TO BEING ACCURATE.*


----------



## Kmon

another possibility is to use the ALU to transfer information very quickly between the different integer cores.

Register to register transfers are very faster - much faster than accessing cache and memory

Use the shared ALU as a fast data pipe between threads
256 bits is a lot - This could potential eliminate push and pops to stack (memory and go directly from register to register)

Improvement
Compare the time it takes to go from one register to one register vs retreiving from memory

The compiler would most likely need to be rewritten to accomplish this activity.

Also would have to evaulate the impact on performance as it may slow down floating results


----------



## kweechy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637580*
> No. I said I wasn't sure if it would beat the 2600k in *single-threaded.* As I've said before, a Phenom II X8 would be a bit faster than a 2600k in multithreaded. And considering that if such a chip existed, it would likely be a new stepping 32nm Phenom III... you get the picture.
> 
> I'm using the Phenom II architecture as a base for a near worst case scenario estimate, which is in the computer world usually the safest estimate.
> 
> We could argue about this forever. Let's just end it with *NO PREDICTION IS VERY CLOSE TO BEING ACCURATE.*


That's more or less the assumptions I'm making as well for how these FX chips will perform. Going with absolutely worst case scenario (as in, any worse than this and the entire Bulldozer venture is LITERALLY POINTLESS):

Take the Cinebench 11.5 score of a Phenom X6 (roughly 7.0 @ 4GHz). Multiply by 1.33 (2 more cores). Multiply by something like 1.1 (figure you can OC it a little harder due to 32nm, in reality it's probably more like 1.2 or 1.3). This worst case scenario assumes absolutely ZERO IPC improvement...the chip would be nothing but a 32nm Phenom X8.

That would give the AMD FX chips something around a Cinebench score of 10.25, beating the 2600k which will push 9.7 @ 5GHz. A 6% improvement.

Now if we start giving these chips more credit...say a 20% IPC gain and the ability to clock 20% higher than Phenom, we're looking at Cinebench scores of 14. That would be totally incredible and I'm honestly not expecting anything that good for $320. A 990x won't even come close to pushing out 14pts even @ 5GHz.

Time will answer all these questions, but as a guy looking to make an IMMINENT purchase of several render boxes, I am absolutely dying to know ANYTHING concrete about this chip.

All I can deduce thusfar is based off that Dual 16C Interlagos leak on Tom's Hardware a while back.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14637674*
> another possibility is to use the ALU to transfer information very quickly between the different integer cores.
> 
> Register to register transfers are very faster - much faster than accessing cache and memory
> 
> Use the shared ALU as a fast data pipe between threads
> 256 bits is a lot - This could potential eliminate push and pops to stack (memory and go directly from register to register)
> 
> Improvement
> Compare the time it takes to go from one register to one register vs retreiving from memory
> 
> The compiler would most likely need to be rewritten to accomplish this activity.
> 
> Also would have to evaulate the impact on performance as it may slow down floating results


Well, to reduce whatever negative impact that may have on floating point performance, couldn't AMD just add another shared ALU?

Or is my thinking way off... sometimes this late I just can't really think things through









EDIT: was that thread cleanup really necessary?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14630538*
> It isn't just a die shrink though.
> 
> The only reason the bulldozer leaks are considered fake by many is because the performance is lower than they're expecting.
> 
> At this point the leaks are even more valid because of the delay.


I LOL´d hard
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14630693*
> That and the fact that the moron leaking them admitted that they were fake.

















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14632087*
> Bulldozer has to be better than the leaks we have seen right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *IPC:* SB > BD
> *Multi-Threaded:* BD > SB


Do YOU know that first Core arch ES were UNSTABLE and crashing ?







This and performance problems were fixed in retail versons.

Anybody can believe that Obr troll or chinese leaks (with poor photoshop skills - you don´t need magnifying glass there)

*Engineering sample performance =/= retail chip performance*


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14634668*
> Actually the i7-2600k is about 20% faster in Cinebench, clock for clock.
> 
> I wonder what else you got wrong...
> 
> Lets say Bulldozer has the same IPC and clocks the same as SB (lol) - AMD has a $1000 chip on their hands. A bulldozer cpu will pretty much equal a $1000 SBe chip.


Or : SB vs Gulftown , the latter is 3x expensive. Do you think Gultown is 3x better ?








FAIL


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14638779*
> Do YOU know that first Core arch ES were UNSTABLE and crashing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This and performance problems were fixed in retail versons.
> 
> Anybody can believe that Obr troll or chinese leaks (with poor photoshop skills - you don´t need magnifying glass there)
> 
> *Engineering sample performance =/= retail chip performance*


I'm well aware actually. I even contacted one of the guys who leaked some of the videos of the B0 chip he bought, and asked him questions directly. It has been well established that the chip was buggy, months ago.

Read the rest of the posts, especially Usario's quote underneath my post, so maybe you can understand the context of the bet we were making. And the point I was trying to make.

This >>>







<<< indicates SARCASM.

It went over your head. I wasn't talking about OBR.


----------



## Fr0sty

who needs sarcasm??


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14639010*
> who needs sarcasm??


Anyone waiting for Bulldozer.

/sarcasm


----------



## Atomfix

Frosty, You don't know what your talking about mate.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix;14639077*
> Frosty, You don't know what your talking about mate.


why dont you enlighten me


----------



## Madmanden

I really hope AMD delivers. But then again, it should be pretty hard to mess up 8 cores.


----------



## Atomfix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14639095*
> why dont you enlighten me


Because for some bizarre reason, you think that the IMC performance on the Phenom II is superior compare that to on the Intel i7's


----------



## Arthedes

depends on what i7's he means


----------



## Arthedes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14638779*
> I LOL´d hard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do YOU know that first Core arch ES were UNSTABLE and crashing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This and performance problems were fixed in retail versons.
> 
> Anybody can believe that Obr troll or chinese leaks (with poor photoshop skills - you don´t need magnifying glass there)
> 
> *Engineering sample performance =/= retail chip performance*


probaly something more like *Engineering sample performance < retail chip performance*


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix;14639183*
> Because for some bizarre reason, you think that the IMC performance on the Phenom II is superior compare that to on the Intel i7's


i never said it was superior ...

i only said it wasnt as bad as you make it sound ... and its probably due to your lack of fine tuning abbility ... i mean come on ... get some better ram and push your imc more instead of whinning about your sub-par results


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14638888*
> I'm well aware actually. I even contacted one of the guys who leaked some of the videos of the B0 chip he bought, and asked him questions directly. It has been well established that the chip was buggy, months ago.
> 
> Read the rest of the posts, especially Usario's quote underneath my post, so maybe you can understand the context of the bet we were making. And the point I was trying to make.
> 
> This >>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <<< indicates SARCASM.
> 
> It went over your head. I wasn't talking about OBR.


I couldn't agree more 2010. Guys on this forum take everything way too seriously. Ohh someone posted a picture of a bulldozer on fire its time to rage. Lighten up guys.


----------



## Atomfix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14639226*
> i never said it was superior ...
> 
> i only said it wasnt as bad as you make it sound ... and its probably due to your lack of fine tuning abbility ... i mean come on ... get some better ram and push your imc more instead of whinning about your sub-par results


If you take a look at the AMD MaxxMEM Results on the AMD Memory, you will see that my "Fine Tuned" results aare on par with everone elses "Fine Tuned" results, compare to i7's (non sandybridge) which can get 17-20GB/s+


----------



## Spicy61

September, it better come.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14638779*
> I LOL´d hard


I think you're on the wrong forum again, amdzone is _>>>>>>_ that way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14638819*
> Or : SB vs Gulftown , the latter is 3x expensive. Do you think Gultown is 3x better ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAIL


Was this said out of ignorance, or was it said to troll? I can't really tell.


----------



## Nocturin

who's modding this thread? pm me please.


----------



## StarDestroyer

I ordered a silver arrow, now I'm BD ready


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep*


222w TDP for the 8 core BD in CPUID? That can't be right


i said things were strange

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Whenever I try to look at the images, I see this:










And clicking on the download link leads to a 404 page


works for me,and the pic you posted looks like it works too?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I see legos...


----------



## Atomfix

Chiphell.com are fussy when you link there images from there site, Soo..... Print screen - Photobucket - link photo on here


----------



## iggydogg

yea i see legos now too,but when i quoted him it showed the CB 11.5 score of 4.11
and the guy now re-ran the test with an asus M5A97 EVO and got a score of 5.93
in CB?
also sometime when i go there from the link i get legos pics but if i copy the address
and past it in the address bar it always works fine.so just follow the link and copy 
the address and repaste it into the address bar and see if it works for you


----------



## 2010rig

Here you go guys. The TDP is most likely just being read wrong.

*Disclaimer*: Are these real, fake? No one knows for sure, I'm only posting the images. Don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## iggydogg

Thanks *2010rig*!!!
try and grab the newer test pics with the M5A97 eveo results if you can
because that 4.11 is a chinese CB version and the newer one is english

chiphell images are crazy,because now i see the CB pic in *Usario's* quote again?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Interesting for sure, can't wait for official reviews.


----------



## Chuckclc

So 8150 or 8130? Seeing 2 different chips. Pic shows 8150, benches 8130.

Cuz if the benches are from the 8130P, that is one reason we are in this 3 month delay right now as that model stepping was scratched.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

3DMark Vantage looks like its using GPU ppu on the AMD chip.


----------



## Usario

The problem with that chip is that it's an A1 stepping. It's likely more than a year old.

It performs considerably worse than the old B0 stepping leak, which got 4.6 in Cinebench at 2.8GHz (this gets 4.11 at 3.6GHz).


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The problem with that chip is that it's an A1 stepping. It's likely more than a year old.

It performs considerably worse than the old B0 stepping leak, which got 4.6 in Cinebench at 2.8GHz (this gets 4.11 at 3.6GHz).


Exactly. There is a picture of the newer 8150, but benches are from the chips that arent even gonna be released, probably cuz they weren't good enough.

Edit: Also still says (942) pins. We all know the FX will not have 942 pins. Or they will not fit right in the older 890 boards that they suppose to fit in with Bios update. Current Phenom II have 938 pins so FX probably has 939 or 940.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


Thanks *2010rig*!!!
try and grab the newer test pics with the M5A97 eveo results if you can
because that 4.11 is a chinese CB version and the newer one is english

chiphell images are crazy,because now i see the CB pic in *Usario's* quote again?


Here you go...


----------



## Usario

Wow, beats my X4!

Still doesn't beat the X6.


----------



## Chuckclc

So its worse then a Phenom II X6? No way. My X6 easily tops 20K in Vantage.

http://3dmark.com/3dmv/3163126


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Needs more MHz.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


So its worse then a Phenom II X6? No way. My X6 easily tops 20K in Vantage.



Overclocked?

Mine 1090T only got like 22k at 4.4GHz.


----------



## Usario

They should put the chip in a Crosshair V. Might have less problems.

It's still a crappy old stepping though.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Needs more MHz.

Overclocked?

Mine 1090T only got like 22k at 4.4GHz.


Thats only 18k with an X8 though. With just 400mhz more on an X6 20.5K? No way thats right. An 8 core at 3600mhz should be upwards of 25k. But these are the same screenies we saw months ago that are either not real, or of the old 8130P stepping that has been scratched.


----------



## 2010rig

This is the original thread these results are from:
http://www.corescn.com/thread-1133-1-1.html

Apparently this is a C0 chip.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

You can't compare an overclocked chip to a new factory clocked chip.

By that logic SB was an utter failure since it too was slower than 1366 @ 4GHz or higher.

Edit: I'm not saying it isn't a bunk stepping and the stock performance won't improve.

I'm just saying comparing overclocked last gen vs stock clocked current gen isn't the best way to go about comparing things.

A 4.2GHz i7-920 is faster than a stock i7-2600k, however as we all know the core/thread count is exactly the same, the only real difference is a few instruction sets and a 15-20% IPC increase, with a boat load of air and water overclocking headroom compared to the i7-920.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


So 8150 or 8130? Seeing 2 different chips. Pic shows 8150, benches 8130.

Cuz if the benches are from the 8130P, that is one reason we are in this 3 month delay right now as that model stepping was scratched.


Also that pic of the FX8150 looks shopped,its not even straight and the 8150 part looks like a different text altogether?thinner?just looking at the FD8150FRW8KGU closely it looks wrong,or maybe the pic has some kind of curvature?
the F is higher than the D then the 815 goes up again then the FR up again



Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This is the original thread these results are from:
http://www.corescn.com/thread-1133-1-1.html

Apparently this is a C0 chip.


Is Co newer than B2?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This is the original thread these results are from:
http://www.corescn.com/thread-1133-1-1.html

Apparently this is a C0 chip.


Where does it say C0?

I see a bunch of people speculating, but if this is really the second stepping AMD made it should be A1. And it has a much higher TDP than the B0 chip.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Where does it say C0?

I see a bunch of people speculating, but if this is really the second stepping AMD made it should be A1. And it has a much higher TDP than the B0 chip.


在此感谢德国网友Borc的强力Support,给*Co* 提供了最新BIOS 使得测试进一步准确!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


在此感谢德国网友*Borg*的强力Support,给*Co* 提供了最新BIOS 使得测试进一步准确!


There I fixed it for you









But seriously that is a Co not a C0 (Zero)


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


在此感谢德国网友Borc的强力Support,给*Co* 提供了最新BIOS 使得测试进一步准确!


That means "Co provides the latest BIOS."

I don't think a CPU can provide BIOS. By "Co", could they have meant "company"?

Also its IPC is worse than the B0 stepping.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


There I fixed it for you









But seriously that is a Co not a C0 (Zero)



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


That means "Co provides the latest BIOS."

I don't think a CPU can provide BIOS. By "Co", could they have meant "company"?

Also its IPC is worse than the B0 stepping.


yea i get that now,i have been reading the original thread and it seems its a B2 from what i can gather from the guy *Comp_nou* posts?i still think something is seriously wrong with these tests,i think the guy is screwing with people,hell even OBR says its wrong so if a cheater calls out this guy i wouldnt think too much of the tests


----------



## jck

I'm waiting til it's released and AnandTech, Xbitlabs, et al., run their benchmarks.

Besides...I have to ask: Isn't the AMD fabrication facility Global Foundries in Germany?

If so, then why wouldn't the Germans be the first ones to get a hold of CPUs and post this stuff rather than the Chinese?

Just wondering...


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*











I'm waiting til it's released and AnandTech, Xbitlabs, et al., run their benchmarks.

Besides...I have to ask: Isn't the AMD fabrication facility Global Foundries in Germany?

If so, then why wouldn't the Germans be the first ones to get a hold of CPUs and post this stuff rather than the Chinese?

Just wondering...










One of the guys there said "thanks to the Germans"

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


yea i get that now,i have been reading the original thread and it seems its a B2 from what i can gather from the guy *Comp_nou* posts?i still think something is seriously wrong with these tests,i think the guy is screwing with people,hell even OBR says its wrong so if a cheater calls out this guy i wouldnt think too much of the tests


Well, the only thing that looks wrong that I can notice is that "AMD FX" is on the IHS. An engineering sample should say "AMD ENG SAMPLE".

I doubt it's B2 because it's worse than B0 and has a higher TDP.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Well, the only thing that looks wrong that I can notice is that "AMD FX" is on the IHS. An engineering sample should say "AMD ENG SAMPLE".

I doubt it's B2 because it's worse than B0 and has a higher TDP.



The first thing I noticed when looking at the image of the chip was part that was smudged out under the Serial number or whatever the FD815OFRWBKGU is.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


The first thing I noticed when looking at the image of the chip was part that was smudged out under the Serial number or whatever the FD815OFRWBKGU is.


If that wasn't smudged out, AMD would be able to find out who violated NDA and gave them the chip.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


If that wasn't smudged out, AMD would be able to find out who violated NDA and gave them the chip.


Thank you for the 411







I did no know that


----------



## StarDestroyer

if those are real benches, even if of an older stepping, what does it mean for games

good or bad?


----------



## Conner

Is it normal that I had a dream that I got an eng sample of Bulldozer?









Totally serious.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


One of the guys there said "thanks to the Germans".


I couldn't see it. I'm at work, and my job blocks a lot of sites.









So that means the Chinese didn't do all that? They are just the press outlet? hmmm


----------



## Atomfix

Memory performance still worse than Sandy Bridge, and has anyone else noticed that there's no northbridge freq being displayed on CPU-Z? Look's like the con-artist forgot to add it to the fake CPU-Z shot.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

sandy doesn't show NB Frequency either, though it is tied directly to the cpu clock rate so it overclocks itself with the cpu.


----------



## iggydogg

Could CPU-Z or the Bios be causing the strange cpu names?

It says FX8130P for name but below it,under Specification

It says AMD FX(tm) 8150 eight core processor (ES)

And in Aida64 it says OR-B2 stepping

But CB uses cpuz specification of AMD FX(tm) 8150 eight core processor?

So could this be just software or bios bugs?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Often CPUz and other programs don't read the information correcting. It can take a few weeks after a full release before the programs are updated to support the new chips.

CPUz reported incorrect voltage for quite some time after SB released for instance.


----------



## Atomfix

If so, that would be great, the IMC tied into the CPU speed, instead of overclocking the Northbridge seperately, I hope this is true


----------



## Benz

I can't see the screenshots damnit!


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Conner*


Is it normal that I had a dream that I got an eng sample of Bulldozer?









Totally serious.


I swear I've had the same-ish dream. 
The CPU was running in my system and when I ran a damn benchmark, I woke up.


----------



## M3TAl

2010rig said:


> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> The CineBench says cpu is 8150??? But CPU-Z says 8130P. I really hate leaks... Way too much misinformation.


----------



## jck

I really wish I could get an FX-8150P, put my LCS on it, and plop it in a Asus Sabertooth.

I'd do benchmarks, and then...

make you guys wait for them.


----------



## StarDestroyer

but are the results in the benches any good,


----------



## Atomfix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14643728*
> but are the results in the benches any good,


Nope, these ES samples of Bulldozer are limited, until they are released to the public, or they could be fake.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Why do Amds Es perform terrible but intels es perform great?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conner;14642686*
> Is it normal that I had a dream that I got an eng sample of Bulldozer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally serious.


We've all had that dream before. I had a dream I was running an 8130P in a Crosshair V Extreme with QuadFire 7970s, all liquid cooled in a mountain mods ascension case >.<
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14642723*
> I couldn't see it. I'm at work, and my job blocks a lot of sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that means the Chinese didn't do all that? They are just the press outlet? hmmm


No, it probably means someone working at GloFo gave them the chip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14642641*
> if those are real benches, even if of an older stepping, what does it mean for games
> 
> good or bad?


Neutral, because it's an old stepping. If it's anywhere near indicative of final performance, it's bad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix;14643041*
> Memory performance still worse than Sandy Bridge, and has anyone else noticed that there's no northbridge freq being displayed on CPU-Z? Look's like the con-artist forgot to add it to the fake CPU-Z shot.


Engineering samples always have problems with cache and RAM.

Pre-release engineering samples usually aren't properly displayed in CPU-Z.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl;14643426*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14641996*
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> The CineBench says cpu is 8150??? But CPU-Z says 8130P. I really hate leaks... Way too much misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be that some software hasn't been updated with the new model name.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jck;14643571*
> I really wish I could get an FX-8150P, put my LCS on it, and plop it in a Asus Sabertooth.
> 
> I'd do benchmarks, and then...
> 
> make you guys wait for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hate you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14643728*
> but are the results in the benches any good,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes and no. For the time being, they're bad. But engineering samples are engineering samples; they're never really good. A next-to-final stepping Athlon 64 engineering sample got into the hands of X-bit Labs a couple months or something before release, and it was 36% slower than the release stepping. Considering that this is most likely stepping A1, final performance will almost certainly be MUCH better.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14643792*
> Why do Amds Es perform terrible but intels es perform great?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because AMD's engineering samples are to test to make sure the CPU's features work properly. Intel's "engineering samples" are cherry picked and designed to be leaked so that the CPU will look way better than it is months before release. Remember the 2600k engineering samples? Almost all of them got close to 5.5GHz on air.
Click to expand...


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14632154*
> Floating Point is NOT integer performance.
> 
> First gen core series chips crush Phenom II in integer core performance, AVX and floating point are nearly worthless to end users like us.
> 
> You can see that clear as day here:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/913290-my-i5-2500k-225-vs-my.htmlhttp://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/913290-my-i5-2500k-225-vs-my.html


Nice to see you skewing results. I was not comparing SB to Phenom II. Nor was I comparing per core performance.

http://www.maxxpi.net/pages/result-browser/top10---flops.php
This even shows a slight advantage of the 2500K over the 1090T clock for clock.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-general/586994-cpu-gflop-performance-database.html
Proof for my claim that when all six cores are used, the 1090T is roughly 20 GLFOPS ahead of the i7.

So, like I said. AMD needs to get people on the multi-threaded bandwagon for all their cores. Or maybe, invest some R&D into designing an instruction set that converts applications/IS to be used on all cores. Even if it requires an application that needs to be ran for 30 minutes to see which portions of the application may need to be off-loaded to another core.

And sorry, I was indeed talking about GFLOPS. GFLOPS is quite dependent on game performance/engineering application.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14643196*
> I can't see the screenshots damnit!


They are the exact same ones we saw a couple months ago. Was opened under a news thread, and later closed after bickering. I remember everything about these numbers. Only difference is the 8150 part under "specification".


----------



## jck

All I know:

When AnandTech or Tom's or Xbit or someone else that I *know* is a reputable source puts the numbers out, I'll have faith in it.

It's like the difference between buying your iphone 4 from the Apple store, or some dude down on a corner on Broadway in Mahattan. Which one you believe more when they tell you "yeah, it's got a warranty." ?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14643930*
> All I know:
> 
> When AnandTech or Tom's or Xbit or someone else that I *know* is a reputable source puts the numbers out, I'll have faith in it.
> 
> It's like the difference between buying your iphone 4 from the Apple store, or some dude down on a corner on Broadway in Mahattan. Which one you believe more when they tell you "yeah, it's got a warranty." ?


I fully agree.... except one part.

The guy on Broadway wasn't the best example.

The best example is a Chinese immigrant in a dirty alley somewhere on Canal Street saying "o ya, it got warranty! Real high quarity Appre product! Certainry not a fake...."

Seriously. I've seen that before.

(DISCLAIMER: Just in case....... this post was not intended to be discriminatory against or offend anyone of Chinese nationality or descent, but rather it was to portray an image of an obviously counterfeit product. The only reason the man's nationality was mentioned was because statistically most counterfeit products are manufactured in China, and this is recognized by popular culture.)


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14643970*
> I fully agree.... except one part.
> 
> The guy on Broadway wasn't the best example.
> 
> The best example is a Chinese immigrant in a dirty alley somewhere on Canal Street saying "o ya, it got warranty! Real high quarity Appre product! Certainry not a fake...."
> 
> Seriously. I've seen that before.


Made my day.









Watch out though, sensitive people may think thats racist.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14643812*
> Nice to see you skewing results. I was not comparing SB to Phenom II. Nor was I comparing per core performance.
> 
> http://www.maxxpi.net/pages/result-browser/top10---flops.php
> This even shows a slight advantage of the 2500K over the 1090T clock for clock.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/intel-general/586994-cpu-gflop-performance-database.html
> Proof for my claim that when all six cores are used, the 1090T is roughly 20 GLFOPS ahead of the i7.
> 
> So, like I said. AMD needs to get people on the multi-threaded bandwagon for all their cores. Or maybe, invest some R&D into designing an instruction set that converts applications/IS to be used on all cores. Even if it requires an application that needs to be ran for 30 minutes to see which portions of the application may need to be off-loaded to another core.
> 
> And sorry, I was indeed talking about GFLOPS. GFLOPS is quite dependent on game performance/engineering application.


Jesus really?

GFLOPS is a measurement for Floating Point Operations.

GFLOPS is *NOT* measurement for integer core performance, Sandy Bridge has AVX (which MaxxMem doesn't use for their linpack) for GFLOPS and will beat the scores of a stock 1090T and a stock 990x combined.

GFLOPS are pretty much useless to you and me. GFLOPS has nothing to do with gaming. Nothing to do with encoding.

I would have been offended by you calling my results skewed, but since you have no idea what is actually going on I can't hold it against you.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14643970*
> I fully agree.... except one part.
> 
> The guy on Broadway wasn't the best example.
> 
> The best example is a Chinese immigrant in a dirty alley somewhere on Canal Street saying "o ya, it got warranty! Real high quarity Appre product! Certainry not a fake...."
> 
> Seriously. I've seen that before.
> 
> (DISCLAIMER: Just in case....... this post was not intended to be discriminatory against or offend anyone of Chinese nationality or descent, but rather it was to portray an image of an obviously counterfeit product. The only reason the man's nationality was mentioned was because statistically most counterfeit products are manufactured in China, and this is recognized by popular culture.)


Here...I'll say it without a disclaimer:

I was in Manhattan, April 2002, and was walking toward Wall Street...and this black guy had videos laid out on the sidewalk on a blanket and came up to me and said "Hey brutha...you lookin for a good movie? I got all the best ones!"

I just looked at him mean and kept going.

I've seen NYC.

And for you sensitive folks...it ain't about race. These are stories about street con artists/hustlers. I've seen white ones too. So get your panties out of your crack.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14644029*
> Made my day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch out though, sensitive people may think thats racist.












Anyone who'd think I'm racist doesn't know me well.

Anyways...

I am waiting for AMD to put it out.


----------



## iggydogg

This looks very promising
Quote:


> It is pleasant to see a technology giant actually put the breaks on when things aren't just right, and put themselves on hold until they can produce a perfect version of their vision. The B2 version was never released as an engineering sample to be tested "in the wild," but with the B1 moving past Intel's Sandy Bridge microarchitecture in many reviews outside of AMD's labs despite the HT overload issue it seems like *AMD may be pushing a very high performance CPU into our laps in the near future,*and perhaps tweaking Intel on their current pricing list so that they can remain price competitive with AMD.


Source


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14644235*
> Here...I'll say it without a disclaimer:
> 
> I was in Manhattan, April 2002, and was walking toward Wall Street...and this black guy had videos laid out on the sidewalk on a blanket and came up to me and said "Hey brutha...you lookin for a good movie? I got all the best ones!"
> 
> I just looked at him mean and kept going.
> 
> I've seen NYC.
> 
> And for you sensitive folks...it ain't about race. These are stories about street con artists/hustlers. I've seen white ones too. So get your panties out of your crack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who'd think I'm racist doesn't know me well.
> 
> Anyways...
> 
> I am waiting for AMD to put it out.


I live around the border of Washington Heights and Inwood. Anyone and everyone can be a con... white, black, brown, yellow; doesn't matter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg*
> This looks very promising


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14643867*
> They are the exact same ones we saw a couple months ago. Was opened under a news thread, and later closed after bickering. I remember everything about these numbers. Only difference is the 8150 part under "specification".


Thanks for clarifying that. We can rest assured they're fake.


----------



## SightUp

What is the difference between a Bulldozer that is 95W vs. one that is 125W?

Out of the two 8 core Bulldozers being released, can we expect to see the same thing as we saw in the x6's? The 1055t performed just as well and overclocked just as far as the 1090t did? I don't want to spend extra money again on a higher end CPU that will, at the end of the day when I am done overclocking, be the same CPU as the lower end one.

My current CPU is dying and I need something sooner rather than later but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Will Bulldozer destroy the 2500k or is this something we just don't know yet?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14644750*
> What is the difference between a Bulldozer that is 95W vs. one that is 125W?
> 
> Out of the two 8 core Bulldozers being released, can we expect to see the same thing as we saw in the x6's? The 1055t performed just as well and overclocked just as far as the 1090t did? I don't want to spend extra money again on a higher end CPU that will, at the end of the day when I am done overclocking, be the same CPU as the lower end one.
> 
> My current CPU is dying and I need something sooner rather than later but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Will Bulldozer destroy the 2500k or is this something we just don't know yet?


Oh you mean like the 955/965 conundrum?

Gonna happen regardless of architecture when you bin CPUs' by performance and stockpile the rest for later distribution. No escaping that to my knowledge. Of course I'm no professional CPU engineer so I could be wrong.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14644750*
> What is the difference between a Bulldozer that is 95W vs. one that is 125W?
> 
> Out of the two 8 core Bulldozers being released, can we expect to see the same thing as we saw in the x6's? The 1055t performed just as well and overclocked just as far as the 1090t did? I don't want to spend extra money again on a higher end CPU that will, at the end of the day when I am done overclocking, be the same CPU as the lower end one.
> 
> My current CPU is dying and I need something sooner rather than later but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Will Bulldozer destroy the 2500k or is this something we just don't know yet?


95W will run at a considerably lower voltage than 125W. However there becomes a point where the lower wattage CPUs are almost identical to the higher wattage ones and are clocked much lower to reach that TDP rating. For example, 65W 910e vs 125W 980.

All Bulldozers will be Black Edition.

Bulldozer will likely crush the 2500k in multithreaded, but in single-threaded we haven't much of a clue.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14645196*
> Bulldozer will likely crush the 2500k in multithreaded, but in single-threaded we haven't much of a clue.


Million dollar question right there


----------



## xd_1771

AMD FX 8 core spotted at Gamescom running DiRT 3 - KitGuru
AND





Some articles we may have missed
I think it is closer than we think


----------



## catharsis

why does it seem to be only using 3 cores?


----------



## linkin93

Has been posted before, I said earlier it's likely that the game doesn't use more than that. BFBC2 would have been a better showcase as it uses lots of threads, but I guess DiRT 3 was G Rated


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14645415*
> why does it seem to be only using 3 cores?


i'm sure because apps aren't optimized to use all the cores

edit: ninja'ed


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14645440*
> Has been posted before, I said earlier it's likely that the game doesn't use more than that. BFBC2 would have been a better showcase as it uses lots of threads, but I guess DiRT 3 was G Rated


BFBC2 only uses 4 cores, and Dirt 3 is shown to perform worse the more cores you use.


----------



## catharsis

correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't it be running as a "quadcore" when it uses apps like that?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14645468*
> correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't it be running as a "quadcore" when it uses apps like that?


It should for the performance hit not to take place, but since windows does thread sharing to even loads and core temps it will never work that way.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14645440*
> Has been posted before, I said earlier it's likely that the game doesn't use more than that. BFBC2 would have been a better showcase as it uses lots of threads, but I guess DiRT 3 was G Rated


Agreed. BFBC2 loads all my X6 cores.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14645480*
> It should for the performance hit not to take place, but since windows does thread sharing to even loads and core temps it will never work that way.


So what you're saying is bulldozer will never function as designed?


----------



## Impunity

if i understand correctly, the only way it will will shut down cores is if you manually do it. that said, if Windows is pushing background jobs to other cores, then its not as bad as you'd think.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conner;14642686*
> Is it normal that I had a dream that I got an eng sample of Bulldozer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally serious.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14643405*
> I swear I've had the same-ish dream.
> The CPU was running in my system and when I ran a damn benchmark, I woke up.


You know you're a hard core AMD fan when...








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14646390*
> So what you're saying is bulldozer will never function as designed?


I think the point people have been trying to make for a while now, is that for a gaming rig where MOST games barely utilize 4 cores...

An 8 core CPU is utterly pointless, as shown in AMD's own video.



*Disclaimer:* I'm well aware that more games can use more than 4 cores, but that's certainly in the minority right now.

The MAJORITY of games don't use more than 4 cores *right now*.


----------



## Usario

^ Another thing to point out in that video is that none of the cores are _even near_ 100% load... so could it be that the GPU is a bottleneck in that system?

When a modern GPU more than 10 inches long becomes a bottleneck in an AMD system, you know AMD's doing something right


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14646696*
> ^ Another thing to point out in that video is that none of the cores are _even near_ 100% load... so could it be that the GPU is a bottleneck in that system?
> 
> When a modern GPU more than 10 inches long becomes a bottleneck in an AMD system, you know AMD's doing something right


----------



## Disturbed117

must be nvidia chip in the system Usario **JK**


----------



## 2010rig

sup disturbed117, long time no see.









Too bad Blitz and Z killed our parties in the lounge.


----------



## Disturbed117

Hey, yea them was good times, Blitz and Z are no fun


----------



## Jtvd78

Do we have an eta for release?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jtvd78;14647139*
> Do we have an eta for release?


not a precise one


----------



## Blackops_2

BFBC2 On my X4 @ 1920x1080 while in game cpu is at about 60% utilization, only 100% when loading to a new level. GPU usage is at 99% constant.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

BFBC2 only uses 4 cores, punk buster can use other cores though.

Just because the cores aren't at 100%, doesn't mean the cpus workload for that game isn't reaching 100% its capacity. I really have no idea how many threads Dirt 3 can use.

For instance WoW and SC2 will only use 2 cores, however if I have four available windows will regulate thermals on the cores by passing threaded workloads through multiple cores. So even when I'm cpu limited, looking as task manager I'll see load on four cores, and no cores maxed out.

It would have been a lot more interesting to see higher cpu load via more gpu power at the res though.


----------



## 855211

I agree I wish that they had put something like a 6990 in there. It would have really showed the cpu performance.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14637894*
> Well, to reduce whatever negative impact that may have on floating point performance, couldn't AMD just add another shared ALU?
> 
> Or is my thinking way off... sometimes this late I just can't really think things through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: was that thread cleanup really necessary?


Need to have die space to add the extra ALU. Not likely - one of the original design tradeoff

with a die shrink possible but not at current gen


----------



## Jtvd78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14647169*
> not a precise one


Eta = ESTIMATED time of arraval







.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jtvd78;14647912*
> Eta = ESTIMATED time of arraval
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


60-90 days from june 1st ...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14647290*
> BFBC2 On my X4 @ 1920x1080 while in game cpu is at about 60% utilization, only 100% when loading to a new level. GPU usage is at 99% constant.


Well you have nvidicrap









jk
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14647903*
> Need to have die space to add the extra ALU. Not likely - one of the original design tradeoff
> 
> with a die shrink possible but not at current gen


Well, then that probably won't happen with BD-E either... two more cores PLUS an integrated northbridge... but I guess it would be possible when AMD moves to 14nm 3D transistors in 2013 with NGBD (this is an assumption based on what GloFo has said -- that 14nm 3D based products are expected to be available in 2013). Hopefully NGBD will also have 16 cores, though I can see it only having 14.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14648036*
> Well you have nvidicrap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jk
> 
> Well, then that probably won't happen with BD-E either... two more cores PLUS an integrated northbridge... but I guess it would be possible when AMD moves to 14nm 3D transistors in 2013 with NGBD (this is an assumption based on what GloFo has said -- that 14nm 3D based products are expected to be available in 2013). Hopefully NGBD will also have 16 cores, though I can see it only having 14.


Originally Posted by Usario
Well, to reduce *whatever negative impact that may have on floating point performance, couldn't AMD just add another shared ALU?*
Or is my thinking way off... sometimes this late I just can't really think things through

EDIT: was that thread cleanup really necessary?

I dont think it would help, as the integer core share









So adding more modules will not help existing thread processing if execution is stalled and the pending FP is not reassigned to another open module.

This is also assuming a lot of factors - Best to wait, test and see.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14648227*
> I dont think it would help, as the integer core share


What do you mean?


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14636993*
> In response to the bolded part: yes.
> 
> Much more accurate than something like "since AMD has bad IPC now, they can't instantly have such great IPC"


I usually don't follow


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14648036*
> Well you have nvidicrap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jk
> 
> Well, then that probably won't happen with BD-E either... two more cores PLUS an integrated northbridge... but I guess it would be possible when AMD moves to 14nm 3D transistors in 2013 with NGBD (this is an assumption based on what GloFo has said -- that 14nm 3D based products are expected to be available in 2013). Hopefully NGBD will also have 16 cores, though I can see it only having 14.


14nm in 2013??

LOL i wouldnt trust some leaks saying so .... 22nm is more accurate for that timeframe

and i didnt see any mention of multi gate transistor solution for amd in the near future with a specific date btw


----------



## ecnelitsep

A logical way to assume bd 8150 performance is by these statements

1. 8150 price has been stated at 300.00. By that estimation its going to be alittle slower then a 2600k
2. Would Amd price its flagship chip cheaper then a 2600k if it was faster? Ofcourse not. Why? Because amd is a business and it needs to make money to survive.

While lots speculate its ipc will be faster then sb. The logical conclusion is that its ipc is at thuban levels or alittle bette


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14648400*
> 14nm in 2013??
> 
> LOL i wouldnt trust some leaks saying so .... 22nm is more accurate for that timeframe
> 
> and i didnt see any mention of multi gate transistor solution for amd in the near future with a specific date btw


I misread. Sub-20nm (GPU half-node I would assume) in 2013. That should mean 14nm in early 2014 (when NGBD is speculated to hit retail anyway).

Source
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14648996*
> A logical way to assume bd 8150 performance is by these statements
> 
> 1. 8150 price has been stated at 300.00. By that estimation its going to be alittle slower then a 2600k
> 2. Would Amd price its flagship chip cheaper then a 2600k if it was faster? Ofcourse not. Why? Because amd is a business and it needs to make money to survive.
> 
> While lots speculate its ipc will be faster then sb. The logical conclusion is that its ipc is at thuban levels or alittle bette


No. This is full of fail.

AMD is known as a budget company. From 1991 to 2006, _almost_ consistently, they kicked the crap out of Intel at the same price point. Phenom II had great value until SB came along, and Athlon II still beats Intel chips in the same price range (Celeron and Pentium). This is the only thing that has kept AMD afloat, and the only thing why anyone would buy anything AMD over Intel. Why buy AMD if they don't offer better value?

IPC at Phenom II levels is PURE GUESSING with absolutely no logic or fact behind it. One would assume it will be around Westmere. Maybe better, maybe worse. We have little idea, because there are so many variables. But unless BD is WORSE then Phenom II in some architectural respects, then it will be roughly 35% faster in workloads that do NOT take advantage of AVX, XOP, AES, CVT16, or FMA4 instructions. This is because of the execution unit count. If AMD has improved in other areas, IPC increase will be higher. If AMD has screwed up in some areas (which is very unlikely), IPC increase will be more minimal.

As usual, Intel supporters arguing about BD would rather baselessly speculate rather than use what architectural details and facts we have.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649103*
> I misread. Sub-20nm (GPU half-node I would assume) in 2013. That should mean 14nm in early 2014 (when NGBD is speculated to hit retail anyway).
> 
> Source


nowhere in that article did they state a timeline ...

and you assumed about next gen bulldozer and such for the 14nm timeline ...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14649175*
> nowhere in that article did they state a timeline ...
> 
> and you assumed about next gen bulldozer and such for the 14nm timeline ...


Quote:


> Gate-first will be used until 2013, when the foundry moves to the 20nm fabrication process.


I was wrong about 14nm though, checked and NGBD will be 22nm FD-SOI and will be released sometime in 2013. My bad.

NGBD-E anyone?


----------



## ecnelitsep

I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.


----------



## 2010rig

Don't we have this discussion on a daily basis?

The same points keep being made, worded slightly different, and no one has any factual evidence to back up their theories.

We need a Bulldozer predictions thread, and maybe Seronx will come back from his dungeon, and bring us new predictions. I just looked up his last prediction just for kicks, and lo and behold...



Pretty sure JF-AMD said this isn't an official site, and I sure hope that's the case.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14649245*
> I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.

































AMD Phenom II X6 1100T = $300
Intel Core i7 965 = $1000
1100T Cinebench R10 = 18828
i7 965 Cineebench R10 = 18810

And this is with CRAP IPC.

Let's look at the scene in 2008.

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition = $275
Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 = $265
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 = $530
940 BE Cinebench R10 = 12393
E8600 Cinebench R10 = 7975
Q9650 Cinebench R10 = 12983

Further back, you'll see that only when AMD consistently had the performance crown for six years did they even match Intel's Extreme Edition pricing. And even then, they kicked the crap out of the EE.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ = $1000
Intel Pentium D 840 = $1000
4800+ Cinebench 2003 = 828
Pentium D 840 Cinebench 2003 = 652

I would provide more examples, but as we go further back it becomes harder and harder to find prices and benchmarks.

EDIT: Oh, and also... say what you want about me using $1000 Extreme Edition chips for comparison, but the only difference between non-EE and EE is the unlocked multiplier. All of the AMD chips mentioned except the 4800+ have an unlocked multiplier, so the argument is valid. In the case of the 4800+ vs the 840 EE, the reason why it's more fair to compare with the EE is because even if you take advantage of the EE's extra OCing potential it still doesn't come close to the 4800+.


----------



## Conner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649384*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Phenom II X6 1100T = $300
> Intel Core i7 965 = $1000
> 1100T Cinebench R10 = 18828
> i7 965 Cineebench R10 = 18810
> 
> And this is with CRAP IPC.
> 
> Let's look at the scene in 2008.
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition = $275
> Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 = $265
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 = $530
> 940 BE Cinebench R10 = 12393
> E8600 Cinebench R10 = 7975
> Q9650 Cinebench R10 = 12983
> 
> Further back, you'll see that only when AMD consistently had the performance crown for six years did they even match Intel's Extreme Edition pricing. And even then, they kicked the crap out of the EE.
> 
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ = $1000
> Intel Pentium D 840 = $1000
> 4800+ Cinebench 2003 = 828
> Pentium D 840 Cinebench 2003 = 652
> 
> I would provide more examples, but as we go further back it becomes harder and harder to find prices and benchmarks.


This post makes me respect AMD even more.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649384*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Phenom II X6 1100T = $300
> Intel Core i7 965 = $1000
> 1100T Cinebench R10 = 18828
> i7 965 Cineebench R10 = 18810
> 
> And this is with CRAP IPC.
> 
> Let's look at the scene in 2008.
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 BE = $275
> Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 = $265
> Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 = $530
> 940 BE Cinebench R10 = 12393
> E8600 Cinebench R10 = 7975
> Q9650 Cinebench R10 = 12983


*Cherry picked results are cherry picked.*

I don't know a single place where you can get a 965. The 990X is the current $1000 CPU.

Though I've seen 980X's for as low as $600.

But hey, let's compare prices that are closer to one another, based on today's prices, and what's available for purchase.

AMD Phenom II X6 1100T = $190
Intel Core i5 2500K = $215
1100T Cinebench SINGLE Thread= 4083
i5 2500K Cinebench SINGLE Thread = *5860*

1100T Cinebench 6 Cores = 18828
i5 2500K Cinebench 4 Cores = *20381*

*Let's look at the scene in 2008 and compare Quad vs Quad.*

Phenom II X4 940 BE = $275
Intel i7 920 = $284
940 BE Cinebench SINGLE Thread = 3451
I7 920 Cinebench SINGLE Thread = *3846*

940 BE Cinebench Multi Thread = 12393
I7 920 Cinebench Multi Thread = *16211*

Don't really care about pre-2008, as we're in the year 2011.

I do remember buying only Athlon's in the good ol' days. But we're not living in the past now are we?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14649245*
> I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.


I think that's called undercutting. If the 8150 had even one _tiiiiiiiiny_ little thing wrong with it, certain people would jump all the hell over it and say, "LULZ NOT WORTH THE EXTRA $30!!!11!one" That's even if overall the 8150 ends up better than the 2500/2600k.
However, if it's priced lower and performs all around better or at least competitively then you have pleasantly surprised customers more willing to buy the product, albeit with certain people still saying lolno.

2010, I think the point he was trying to make was that those older architectures were close to the same age. Wasn't the first gen i7 a newer architecture than the Phenom II? (Also, I think you messed up where you were putting the cinebench results.







)

EDIT: Cinebench results fixed. Ninja'd.







+


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14649539*
> *Cherry picked results are cherry picked.*
> 
> I don't know a single place where you can get a 965.
> 
> Let's deal with today's prices, and what's available for purchase.
> 
> AMD Phenom II X6 1100T = $190
> Intel Core i5 2500K = $215
> 1100T Cinebench SINGLE Thread= 4083
> i5 2500K Cinebench SINGLE Thread = 5860
> 
> 1100T Cinebench 6 Cores = 18828
> i5 2500K Cinebench 4 Cores = 20381
> 
> *Let's look at the scene in 2008 and compare Quad vs Quad.*
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition = $275
> Intel i7 920 = $284
> 940 BE Cinebench SINGLE Thread = 3846
> I7 920 Cinebench SINGLE Thread = 3451
> 
> 940 BE Cinebench Multi Thread = 12393
> I7 920 Cinebench SINGLE Thread = 16211
> 
> Don't really care about pre-2008, as we're in the year 2011.


My post was to make a point HISTORICALLY. I know AMD sucks today. But almost always, they provide better value. Ecnelitsep was saying that they won't, and that's just flat-out wrong. Also, that's not comparing quad vs quad. That's comparing 4 thread to 8 thread. I compared Core 2 Quad to Phenom II.

BTW, the 1090T is $170 now.

The 965 is the top of the line quad Nehalem i7, so I don't know why you have a problem with it. It's almost impossible to find a Radeon 6990 nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's not any good for comparison.

MORE COMPARISONS FROM WHAT FEELS LIKE A MILLION YEARS AGO!

AMD Athlon 64 FX-57 = $915
Intel Pentium 4 3.4 Extreme Edition = $1000
FX-57 PCMark 2004 = 5473
P4 3.4 EE PCMark 2004 = 5338

AMD Athlon 64 X2 FX-60 = $1000
Intel Pentium D 955 Extreme Edition = $1000
FX-60 3dsmax 7 render = 2.87
955 EE 3dsmax 7 render = 2.81
(UNLIKE IN MOST MODERN 3DSMAX RENDER TESTS, HIGHER IS BETTER)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649633*
> My post was to make a point HISTORICALLY. I know AMD sucks today. But almost always, they provide better value. Ecnelitsep was saying that they won't, and that's just flat-out wrong. Also Nehalem is still newer than Phenom II, even if it's only by a little bit.
> 
> The 965 is the top of the line quad Nehalem i7, so I don't know why you have a problem with it. It's almost impossible to find a Radeon 6990 nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's not any good for comparison.
> 
> MORE COMPARISONS FROM WHAT FEELS LIKE A MILLION YEARS AGO!
> 
> AMD Athlon 64 FX-57 = $915
> Intel Pentium 4 3.4 Extreme Edition = $1000
> FX-57 PCMark 2004 = 5473
> P4 3.4 EE PCMark 2004 = 5338
> 
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 FX-60 = $1000
> Intel Pentium D 955 Extreme Edition = $1000
> FX-60 3dsmax 7 render = 2.87
> 955 EE 3dsmax 7 render = 2.81


Oh trust me, I remember the good old days when Intel wasn't even an option, I still have 2 Athlon computers which I never sold. ( Maybe I should bring them to Apple for recycling, and they might give me $2 for them.







)

OT: But see, now you've just gone against your original point of AMD being a value driven company, when they too have had $1000 CPU's, what like 5-6 years ago?

They brought back the FX brand to compete in the $200 - $300 market?

Why didn't they bring back the FX brand to compete with a 990X, or 3960X?

Because they care about us consumers, or....


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14649685*
> Oh trust me, I remember the good old days when Intel wasn't even an option, I still have 2 Athlon computers which I never sold.
> 
> But see, now you've just gone against your original point of AMD being a value driven company, when they too have had $1000 CPU's, what like 5-6 years ago?
> 
> They brought back the FX brand to compete in the $300 market?
> 
> Why didn't they bring back the FX brand to compete with a 990X, or 3960X?
> 
> Because they care about us consumers, or....


And they won in the $1000 market. After 7 years of dominance at every other price point.

They didn't bring back the FX brand to compete with the 3960X because it won't be able to match it in performance, unless AMD has some freaking god chip. BD-E (and what I'm guessing will be called the FX 10050







) will be able to compete with the 3960X if it's out before IB-E. AMD *might* have an uber expensive chip for us next year.

And I'll even throw this out there: BD-E could very well be able to compete with IB-E if BD has ≥Westmere level IPC.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649705*
> They didn't bring back the FX brand to compete with the 3960X because it won't be able to match it in performance, unless AMD has some freaking god chip.


Exactly my point. Thank you.

But if they could, they most certainly would. ( Historically speaking







)


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14649722*
> Exactly my point. Thank you.
> 
> But if they could, they most certainly would. ( Historically speaking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


To match the 3960X, AMD would need:

55% IPC improvement (including new instructions)
5GHz+ on air

So yeah, probably not happening -- but you can never know for certain. If it did match the 3960X, though... yeah, I'd bet the price would be higher.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14649770*
> To match the 3960X, AMD would need:
> 
> 55% IPC improvement (including new instructions)
> 5GHz+ on air
> 
> So yeah, probably not happening -- but you can never know for certain. If it did match the 3960X, though... yeah, I'd bet the price would be higher.


You see, and that brings us back to the original debate that the 8150 priced at $300 will match the 2600K best case scenario. Otherwise, it would be more expensive. Multi-threaded, in theory, it should spank it. If it does, Intel will have to price drop in order to compete.

AMD's dominance led to Intel's innovation. Hopefully Intel's current dominance will do the same for Bulldozer.

AMD & Intel are companies, in it to make money, nothing more, nothing less.

They're not doing us any favors. They'll provide chips, and charge us based on their performance. ( Though it's not always a linear pricing structure for the Extreme Chips. ) Extreme Chips lets people know who the "Top Dog" is. EE chips have lower sales, but I bet they help increase mainstream sales 10 fold.

_Johnny says, Intel has the best chip at $1000, but I'll buy this $300 chip instead since it's pretty close to that $1000 chip. Boy I'm smart._

In the last couple years we've seen Phenom II's drop in price in order to compete.

If it wasn't for Bulldozer coming out, we would've never seen a 2600K priced at $300, that's for sure.

And the cycle continues...

We the "*consumers*" need Bulldozer to be good. Period.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> We the "consumers" need Bulldozer to be good. Period.


No more true words could be spoken. It does not matter if you are a fan of Intel or AMD, unless you are filthy rich, we need AMD to step up with the new FX cpu's.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14649882*
> You see, and that brings us back to the original debate that the 8150 priced at $300 will match the 2600K best case scenario. Otherwise, it would be more expensive. Multi-threaded, in theory, it should spank it. If it does, Intel will have to price drop in order to compete.
> 
> AMD & Intel are companies, in it to make money, nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> They're not doing us any favors. They'll provide chips, and charge us based on their performance. ( Though it's not always a linear pricing structure. )
> 
> In the last couple years we've seen Phenom II's drop in price in order to compete.
> 
> If it wasn't for Bulldozer coming out, we would've never seen a 2600K priced at $300, that's for sure.
> 
> And the cycle continues...
> 
> We the "*consumers*" need Bulldozer to be good. Period.


Well, I think best case scenario would be Bulldozer beating the 2600k in single threaded and overclocking better, therefore completely destroying Intel. But that's not exactly realistic.

A realistic estimate would be more like 40% faster in multithreaded and 10% slower in single-threaded.

It's obvious that SB is so cheap because AMD was posing a threat. Except for gaming, the X6 was a much better choice over Nehalem... unless you like spending upwards of $600 on a CPU.

Intel is planning on slashing the 2600k's price.

I do agree that both AMD and Intel are companies and want to make money, but I honestly believe that to restore their reputation the original Bulldozer chips will be priced extremely disproportionately cheap.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14649920*
> No more true words could be spoken. It does not matter if you are a fan of Intel or AMD, unless you are filthy rich, we need AMD to step up with the new FX cpu's.


Even if you are filthy rich you should want Bulldozer to be a winner.

I can guarantee you that if there was no Athlon 64, Intel would've released a Pentium 5.


----------



## SightUp

Would it be safe to buy the new ram and motherboard right now? Or is there new stuff going to be coming out between now and then?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14649942*
> Would it be safe to buy the new ram and motherboard right now? Or is there new stuff going to be coming out between now and then?


I say wait.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14649942*
> Would it be safe to buy the new ram and motherboard right now? Or is there new stuff going to be coming out between now and then?


Everything is out except for the cpu chip itself. I just hope my CHV can make it till the chips designed for it comes out.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14649960*
> Everything is out except for the cpu chip itself. I just hope my CHV can make it till the chips designed for it comes out.


No.

New boards will come shortly after release.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No.

New boards will come shortly after release.


New boards or new chipsets? Assuming AMD can keep with with demand from day one, and benchmarks are favorable for Bulldozer, I hope to purchase one at that time. I don't intend on waiting for a motherboard unless it's coming with a new chipset.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14650095*
> New boards or new chipsets? Assuming AMD can keep with with demand from day one, and benchmarks are favorable for Bulldozer, I hope to purchase one at that time. I don't intend on waiting for a motherboard unless it's coming with a new chipset.


New boards. No new chipsets.

I'm talking like Gigabyte G1, Asus ROG Extreme, MSI Big Bang, etc. (not saying any of those will actually come around release, that's just speculation, but industry sources say lots of new boards after release)


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


New boards. No new chipsets.

I'm talking like Gigabyte G1, Asus ROG Extreme, MSI Big Bang, etc. (not saying any of those will actually come around release, that's just speculation, but industry sources say lots of new boards after release)


I wouldnt really call them new though. What are they going to offer?

Quote:



Asus ROG Extreme,


Dont think thats going to happen.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


I wouldnt really call them new though. What are they going to offer?

Dont think thats going to happen.


They are new, because they weren't available before.

Why wouldn't Asus release a Crosshair V Extreme? There was a Crosshair IV Extreme.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14650184*
> They are new, because they weren't available before.
> 
> Why wouldn't Asus release a Crosshair V Extreme? There was a Crosshair IV Extreme.


I mean they could. But what would it have to offer? There was no CH3 Extreme. The Thunderbolt edition of CHV is already out, there was not CHIV Thunderbolt. The 990FX chipset does not offer enough features over the 890 and 790FX chipsets for much more boards to be released. Unless BD has something up there sleeve at release? What do you know that we dont know *Usario*?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


I mean they could. But what would it have to offer? There was no CH3 Extreme. The Thunderbolt edition of CHV is already out, there was not CHIV Thunderbolt. The 990FX chipset does not offer enough features over the 890 and 790FX chipsets for much more boards to be released. Unless BD has something up there sleeve at release? What do you know that we dont know *Usario*?


I don't know anything more than you.

What I do know is that the CHV Extreme would be E-ATX and probably have room for QuadFire or have an x1 slot above the other expansion slots so you could fit TriFire and a sound card. Let's face it, the CHV Formula could have better PCI-E spacing. The Extreme boards usually do.


----------



## kevink82

Already got words here in malaysia on 19th AMD will allocate 10 units for the country.............. SERIOUSLY *** 10?!?!? for a whole country...... ; ; if they wanna seriously compete at least do a decent launch!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevink82;14650294*
> Already got words here in malaysia on 19th AMD will allocate 10 units for the country.............. SERIOUSLY *** 10?!?!? for a whole country...... ; ; if they wanna seriously compete at least do a decent launch!


The demand in countries like the US, Canada, UK, Australia, China, Japan, etc. will be INSANE. A lot of companies release products to countries like those first and then a few weeks later after they have enough in stock start selling in other countries for that very reason.


----------



## kevink82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14650314*
> The demand in countries like the US, Canada, UK, Australia, China, Japan, etc. will be INSANE. A lot of companies release products to countries like those first and then a few weeks later after they have enough in stock start selling in other countries for that very reason.


You do realise malaysia makes AMD and Intel cpu right?


----------



## Fr0sty

usario is speculating about everything ... dont pay much attention to his prediction

he obviously miss seronx and hes taking his duty while he his on vacation

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


You do realise malaysia makes AMD and Intel cpu right?


and we are supose to believe what you heard somewhere from someone who might not be in the know at all

i mean 10 cpu's total???

LOLLL


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I don't know anything more than you.

What I do know is that the CHV Extreme would be E-ATX and probably have room for QuadFire or have an x1 slot above the other expansion slots so you could fit TriFire and a sound card. Let's face it, the CHV Formula could have better PCI-E spacing. The Extreme boards usually do.


They already have an expansion board for Quad fire and such.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


You do realise malaysia makes AMD and Intel cpu right?


China makes iPhones. But they don't get them anywhere near the US release date.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


usario is speculating about everything ... dont pay much attention to his prediction

he obviously miss seronx and hes taking his duty while he his on vacation


Ha. Ha. No.

Look at the differences between all of Asus's Formula and Extreme boards, then come back and say that.

And take every single word in my post seriously. When I say "probably" or "likely", I mean *PROBABLY* or *LIKELY*. Not "definitely".

And seriously, are disclaimers like "I don't know anything more than you" and "not saying any of those will actually come around release, that's just speculation, but industry sources say lots of new boards after release" not enough?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


They already have an expansion board for Quad fire and such.


... that doesn't fit inside any case, and only has 4 PCI-E x16... nothing in between, no x1 for a sound card, no legacy PCI...


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> ... that doesn't fit inside any case, and only has 4 PCI-E x16... nothing in between, no x1 for a sound card, no legacy PCI...


I would just put my chips on the fact that they will not release a CHV Extreme based solely on Crossfire. They may, but I think we have the best of the 990FX boards already. maybe some other design will come out to meet all needs, but eeh.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14650602*
> I would just put my chips on the fact that they will not release a CHV Extreme based solely on Crossfire. They may, but I think we have the best of the 990FX boards already.


It's not just that. More SATA ports are a possibility, idk what else... look at the Rampage III Formula and Extreme.

EDIT: oh, and a lucid hydra chip is also a possibility


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*
> I think you're on the wrong forum again, amdzone is _>>>>>>_ that way.


Oh, i see you have trolling mood turned on

I wonder why such posts dont get warning, it seems admins and mods are selective here


----------



## kevink82

Fortunately we are not china and we do get stuff here most of the time faster than some countries on pc parts.

My friend owns a pc shop we were ordering 4 pcs for our own use so we called up the distro, they told us 10 and can only allocate 1-2 to us for launch and others will have to wait at least 2 weeks.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


It's not just that. More SATA ports are a possibility, idk what else... look at the Rampage III Formula and Extreme.

EDIT: oh, and a lucid hydra chip is also a possibility


Not really saying it will not happen. Just dont think it will. If Bulldozer is a hit, who knows. Maybe all kinds of stuff out there.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


Fortunately we are not china and we do get stuff here most of the time faster than some countries on pc parts.

My friend owns a pc shop we were ordering 4 pcs for our own use so we called up the distro, they told us 10 and can only allocate 1-2 to us for launch and others will have to wait at least 2 weeks.


And this is the _only_ distributor in Malaysia?


----------



## kevink82

Other 3 says they wont get it at launch will call us back once stock arrived. Not a lot of AMD supporter here i have to say though the 3 that says they wont get at launch told us to go with sandy instead lmao.........


----------



## Fr0sty

so the word of a small shop is trust worthy enough to judge availability over the world ???


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14649942*
> Would it be safe to buy the new ram and motherboard right now? Or is there new stuff going to be coming out between now and then?


Ram would be okay to get now but as for a new mobo I'd think it'd be best to wait. I kind of regret getting the CHV because supposedly other BD chips that are for a new chipset are going to be released not to long after launch BD chips are released.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Ram would be okay to get now but as for a new mobo I'd think it'd be best to wait. I kind of regret getting the CHV because supposedly other BD chips that are for a new chipset are going to be released not to long after launch BD chips are released.


Everyone just said the opposite of what you did.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Ram would be okay to get now but as for a new mobo I'd think it'd be best to wait. I kind of regret getting the CHV because supposedly other BD chips that are for a new chipset are going to be released not to long after launch BD chips are released.


You are fine. Just be patient. Some more. Look into some 1866/2000mhz RAM if you can get a good deal.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SightUp*


Everyone just said the opposite of what you did.










In that case buy my mobo from me.


----------



## Newbie2009

so when is this out?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


You are fine. Just be patient. Some more. Look into some 1866/2000mhz RAM if you can get a good deal.


My ram is rated at 2133mhz.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


My ram is rated at 2133mhz.


Yeah but you dont have a Bulldozer chip and a Bulldozer IMC yet. Be patient Tatakai.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep*   I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.  
   2600k at amazon Â£237.92

  i7 975 at amazon Â£549.95

Why would Intel undercut their own range when the cheaper cpu is vastly superior? If they can undercut their own products their competitor certainly can.










Maybe you should re-read some of your posts to find the "most illogical thing I have ever heard"...









Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*   so the word of a small shop is trust worthy enough to judge availability over the world ???  
It's about as plausable as anything else we've heard about BD, unofficial or official.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Yeah but you dont have a Bulldozer chip and a Bulldozer IMC yet. Be patient Tatakai.









http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewto...?f=52&t=137969


True, I've been pretty patient this long might as well see it through. Thanks I needed that.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14650897*
> True, I've been pretty patient this long might as well see it through. Thanks I needed that.


Trust me, i needed to tell someone that. I have almost pulled the trigger on a 2500K about 4 times already. We need to stick together and see what happens. If what we expect does not happen, then i will see you on the other side!


----------



## kevink82

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


so the word of a small shop is trust worthy enough to judge availability over the world ???


Im saying they obviously dont care about malaysia, the country i live in as a market. Where is the world did i mentioned its gonna be a world wide issue?

As i said we called as in like i was there too? Skim reading and replying obviously lead you to your reply or you are just thinking about something else there mate.....


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


Im saying they obviously dont care about malaysia, the country i live in as a market. Where is the world did i mentioned its gonna be a world wide issue?

As i said we called as in like i was there too? Skim reading and replying obviously lead you to your reply or you are just thinking about something else there mate.....


Hey I got a chip right here that says "made in Malaysia". We need to show some love to the people actually making the physical chips right?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Ram would be okay to get now but as for a new mobo I'd think it'd be best to wait. I kind of regret getting the CHV because supposedly other BD chips that are for a new chipset are going to be released not to long after launch BD chips are released.



lul wut???

they wont release a new chipset ... they will only release new mobo ... two different thing ...


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Hey I got a chip right here that says "made in Malaysia". We need to show some love to the people actually making the physical chips right?


Most businesses do not operate like this.

US, UK, Canada, China, Australia, Japan, EU. In that order.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Most businesses do not operate like this.

US, UK, Canada, China, Australia, Japan, EU. In that order.


Lol, well I know all that, just trying to make a funny. But who makes the money is not our fault.


----------



## Jared2608

South Africa always last, lol!! Anyway, I'm interested to see what BD does when it's launched, especially because it's been talked about so much. I wonder how long the AM3+ socket will last before they launch the FM2 Socket for the next gen BD chips?

Also, since they are going to release a new Socket, does that mean the new BD chips will be a newer architechture, and so maybe more powerful than first gen BD chips, so many questions, lol!


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


lul wut???

they wont release a new chipset ... they will only release new mobo ... two different thing ...


I think he is talking about BD-E which is rumored to have an integrated northbridge and be on socket FM2. It is set for next year, but who knows whether that is 6 months from now or 14 months from now.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Wasn't AMD suppose to show off BD last night at Hot Chips 2011? I cant see to find anything on what was mentioned or shown off.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jared2608*


South Africa always last, lol!! Anyway, I'm interested to see what BD does when it's launched, especially because it's been talked about so much. I wonder how long the AM3+ socket will last before they launch the FM2 Socket for the next gen BD chips?

Also, since they are going to release a new Socket, does that mean the new BD chips will be a newer architechture, and so maybe more powerful than first gen BD chips, so many questions, lol!


BD-E will NOT be a new architecture but it *might* be tweaked (like Phenom -> Phenom II).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Wasn't AMD suppose to show off BD last night at Hot Chips 2011? I cant see to find anything on what was mentioned or shown off.










I can't find anything either.

Is their a single tech blog or news website that was following Hot Chips?


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Ram would be okay to get now but as for a new mobo I'd think it'd be best to wait. I kind of regret getting the CHV because supposedly other BD chips that are for a new chipset are going to be released not to long after launch BD chips are released.


I've held off on even RAM. BD will have a new IMC and use lots of bandwidth so who really knows what RAM will work well. It could be that CAS 11 @ 2133 will work better than CAS 6 at 1333, theres just no way to know until benchmarks are out.


----------



## StarDestroyer

I spend most all my birthday money today, so the BD option will be much easier than the SB+new MB option

so BD better do good in games


----------



## nub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Wasn't AMD suppose to show off BD last night at Hot Chips 2011? I cant see to find anything on what was mentioned or shown off.











http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc2.../session7.html


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc2.../session7.html


BD related talk begins at 31:15

EDIT: i just noticed that this is from HC 2010....


----------



## 2010rig

Is it just me, or is this LAST year's presentation?

At 35:00 he says "The initial instances of the Bulldozer core will be delivered in 2011"

Plus, all the slides say 2010.


----------



## StarDestroyer

june 1st +60-90 days BD something

will they miss that

Edit:this is why I scam my employers and ????

I just say-give me the upgrade money, or be left behind

then I spend the money on pizza and OTHER things


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14649245*
> I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.


Let me see if I can dumb this down in a model you CAN understand.

Company I has a product. They could legitimately sell it for 20% over cost and make a profit. But it's so danged new and they're so greedy they give it a 50% markup.

Company A has a similar product. It's just as new and it's just as solid in it's performance. They could mark it up 20% over cost and make a profit. Seeing what company I is doing and being in business to outsell the competition Company A marks up their product to 25% over cost.

The goal here is to outsell your competitor. Realize it or not but you get more investors when you do that. The more investors you have the larger your company growth index increases. Profit means more money in the pocket of the Managers and CEO types in the form of bonuses. Investors means increased market share and that money can be banked for future projects.

Do you understand now? Or do I have to whip out some crayon pie charts?









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14653044*
> I've held off on even RAM. BD will have a new IMC and use lots of bandwidth so who really knows what RAM will work well. It could be that CAS 11 @ 2133 will work better than CAS 6 at 1333, theres just no way to know until benchmarks are out.


CAS 11 @2133? Yeesh! CAS 9 @2133 more better.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14652083*
> Wasn't AMD suppose to show off BD last night at Hot Chips 2011? I cant see to find anything on what was mentioned or shown off.


It was THOUGHT that Hot Chips was the place AMD would say something about BD. Maybe they're just content with letting BD run Dirt3 demos.









~Ceadder:drink:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14653759*
> CAS 11 @2133? Yeesh! CAS 9 @2133 more better.


CAS 7 @ 2133!

I hope BD can handle four 2GB DIMMs of that...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman;14653830*
> It was THOUGHT that Hot Chips was the place AMD would say something about BD. Maybe they're just content with letting BD run Dirt3 demos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder:drink:


... with a GPU bottlenecking it.


----------



## xd_1771

Some cleanup done. Let's keep the discussion to informative Bulldozer-related discussion ONLY please.
-xd


----------



## Dmac73

I wish there were NB and HT specs on all the leaked screenies....

HT 3.1 supports up to 3200mhz(or 3600? Something..) HT, would be wonderful if BD was able to come close to saturating that. And hopefully AMD recognizes the potential in high NB clocks and does something about that.


----------



## xd_1771

3200Mhz HT = 6.4GT/s. I think this is parallel with some of the high end i7 CPUs on LGA1366.
It is likely that the NB would be running at similar speeds.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14648996*
> A logical way to assume bd 8150 performance is by these statements
> 
> 1. 8150 price has been stated at 300.00. By that estimation its going to be alittle slower then a 2600k
> 2. Would Amd price its flagship chip cheaper then a 2600k if it was faster? Ofcourse not. Why? Because amd is a business and it needs to make money to survive.
> 
> While lots speculate its ipc will be faster then sb. The logical conclusion is that its ipc is at thuban levels or alittle bette


Not necessary, price points do not coordinate directly to performance. For example the 990X is not > 3 the performance of a 2600K.

AMD may want to take market share away from Intel so offers a better performing CPU for less. *A strong possibility*

BD performance may be slightly lower than 2600K so it is priced a little lower. *Also likely* This is what you are suggesting

BD perfromance may be substantially lower but it is better than the thuban so it replaces thuban within it old price point. *A possibility not likely*

Performance correlates very loosely with pricing

Price point are marketing which does not equate directly to performance in all case.


----------



## kweechy

If I run a single threaded app through the BD chip, will two of the ALUs combine to form one? If so, what kind of performance can we expect from that compared to the work a single core will be doing when the entire chip is under full load?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14655684*
> 3200Mhz HT = 6.4GT/s. I think this is parallel with some of the high end i7 CPUs on LGA1366.
> It is likely that the NB would be running at similar speeds.


Indeed. Hopefully both will be pushed from the get-go and can take even more... Evidently theres a current problem with HT flooding on ES BD's.... Just another rumor in the long line of them though.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14649245*
> I unfortunately cannot quote the above retort to my comments but let me just say this. You ACTUALLY think amd would sell an 8150 for less then a 2600K if it beat it in performance because Amd is a budget company? That might be the most illogical thing I have ever heard. If the 8150 was faster then a 2600K it would have been priced at 350 and not 300. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to think instead of blindly listening to the die hard Amd fans who seem to sprout fantasy and false hope in this thread.


Yes, as AMD would take market share away form Intel and enhance it position across the board and within the OEM. OEM is where the money is at.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kweechy;14655835*
> If I run a single threaded app through the BD chip, will two of the ALUs combine to form one? If so, what kind of performance can we expect from that compared to the work a single core will be doing when the entire chip is under full load?


Actually ever since the conception of the BD architecture I had always thought that this would be possible somehow (2 integer cores in one module driving one thread). Perhaps we will find out upon release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;14655847*
> Indeed. Hopefully both will be pushed from the get-go and can take even more... Evidently theres a current problem with HT flooding on ES BD's.... Just another rumor in the long line of them though.


Well for reference AM3 motherboards supported up to 2.6Ghz (5.2Gt/s) HyperTransport operation - the CPUs themselves used up 2Ghz (4Gt/s) for best stability, and it didn't make much of a difference going higher anyway. Some AM3 motherboards (or 800 series chipset mobos with AM3+ socket) may not necessarily support higher HT clocks than that, which could have caused problems.


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14653543*
> BD related talk begins at 31:15
> 
> EDIT: i just noticed that this is from HC 2010....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14653575*
> Is it just me, or is this LAST year's presentation?
> 
> At 35:00 he says "The initial instances of the Bulldozer core will be delivered in 2011"
> 
> Plus, all the slides say 2010.


Doh!!!!!


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14655880*
> Actually ever since the conception of the BD architecture I had always thought that this would be possible somehow (2 integer cores in one module driving one thread). Perhaps we will find out upon release.


This would be a dream come true from a benchmark standpoint. However i don't think this will be the case.

Quote:


> Well for reference AM3 motherboards supported up to 2.6Ghz (5.2Gt/s) HyperTransport operation - the CPUs themselves used up 2Ghz (4Gt/s) for best stability, and it didn't make much of a difference going higher anyway. Some AM3 motherboards (or 800 series chipset mobos with AM3+ socket) may not necessarily support higher HT clocks than that, which could have caused problems.


Yes i realize that. Just another reason for AMD only officially supporting 990FX. Really no other feature sets other than HT 3.1 support. If you don't count "official" SLI support.


----------



## conzilla

Anyone watch that videos Q and A part. Lots of questions from the boys at intel. Worried much. LOL. Flame on.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kweechy;14655835*
> If I run a single threaded app through the BD chip, will two of the ALUs combine to form one? If so, what kind of performance can we expect from that compared to the work a single core will be doing when the entire chip is under full load?


It depends upon the program and how it is written and compilied, optimized, etc


----------



## xd_1771

Bulldozer-related discussion *only* please.
-xd


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14656348*
> See the attached.
> 
> Both sellers are good as I just purchased from them a few weeks ago


Thats a 1090, compared to 1100. Regardless, you could find a 2500k cheaper if you really tried as well.

And in the end the pricing is all you argued. /discussion of 2500k vs P2 x6.... How the heck did that get started anyways. 2500k is newer, more efficient, and just much better as a micro architecture.

xd already gave us a kind warning to get back on topic, how about oblige to it.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14655880*
> Actually ever since the conception of the BD architecture I had always thought that this would be possible somehow (2 integer cores in one module driving one thread). Perhaps we will find out upon release.


Xd

Yes the arch appears to allow the possibility. I don't think it is going to work well as would take a lot to coordinate between the integer cores to process within the same thread without slowing staving each other. Most likely, it requires hand coding. The coding might be an interesting project as it would be like self-modifying code depending upon the results. Interesting as you could end up in race conditions between the integer threads


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;14656375*
> Thats a 1090, compared to 1100. Regardless, you could find a 2500k cheaper if you really tried as well.
> 
> And in the end the pricing is all you argued. /discussion of 2500k vs P2 x6.... How the heck did that get started anyways. 2500k is newer, more efficient, and just much better as a micro architecture.
> 
> xd already gave us a kind warning to get back on topic, how about oblige to it.


okay, Pricing is significant in the P/P evaluation as it is one component

Otherwise I am in general agreement we should chat about the BD arch as it is really interesting with possibilities.

The more I think about it the more I like the possibility of eliminating/minimizing pushes and pops. This would real change the way the stack frame is create and managed. It may also eliminate the possible security concerns surrounding the stack overflows.


----------



## catharsis

watch amd say nothing come august 31 i'll be so pissed.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14655880*
> Actually ever since the conception of the BD architecture I had always thought that this would be possible somehow (2 integer cores in one module driving one thread). Perhaps we will find out upon release.


The resources being shared don't include the integer pipelines, if it worked that way it would be like two cores working on one thread, and JF has already stated on several occasions Bulldozer does not work that way.

The FPU will be shared though not in the sense you're thinking. The way it will be "shared" is two 128 bit FPU per module. Those two FPU can work as two individual FPU units, or combine to create a single 256 bit FPU.

An x8 Bulldozer CPU will have eight 128 bit FPU's which can combine to create up to a total of four 256 bit FPU's as needed.

Edit: To clear that up a bit, no matter if its in 128 bit mode or 256 bit mode, it can only work on one thread of floating point code per FPU (either 4 256bit or 8 128bit for the x8). The way it combines just allows a much fatter and faster processed 256 bit instruction to pass through it, though it still can only process one thread per FPU.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14653312*
> http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc22video/session7.html


Linky is DOA


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14656625*
> The resources being shared don't include the integer pipelines, if it worked that way it would be like two cores working on one thread, and JF has already stated on several occasions Bulldozer does not work that way.
> 
> The FPU will be shared though not in the sense you're thinking. The way it will be "shared" is two 128 bit FPU per module. Those two FPU can work as two individual FPU units, or combine to create a single 256 bit FPU.
> 
> An x8 Bulldozer CPU will have eight 128 bit FPU's which can combine to create up to a total of four 256 bit FPU's as needed.
> 
> Edit: To clear that up a bit, no matter if its in 128 bit mode or 256 bit mode, it can only work on one thread of floating point code per FPU (either 4 256bit or 8 128bit for the x8). The way it combines just allows a much fatter and faster processed 256 bit instruction to pass through it, though it still can only process one thread per FPU.


Correct, but you could use the FPU as a way to share information between threads including addresses and do register to register transfers which is very quick or use the FPU to store the frame, etc

remember it may be designed for FPU but it can be used for other purposes. Real interesting other purposes. Use shifts to move info between the 128 registers. Shifting is faster then retreiving data from memory including cache. The more I think about it the integer core probably have access to the full register so you dont event have to shift.

Think of all of the fun you could have with the processor execute thing in a way that was not anticipated.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Could you? I don't know.

I do know JF_AMD already commented on a single thread working on both cores in the module.

I don't know his exact words, but he said it would be slower.


----------



## Blameless

Reverse hyper-threading, and the ability to allow multiple cores to work on a single thread, has been a myth for almost a decade.

It's also been repeatedly and throughly debunked.

Even JF-AMD has explicitly refuted the idea (and a ludicrous idea its always been) that Bulldozer will be capable of such a feat:

See posts 153 and 154: http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/773816-amd-bulldozer-16.html
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14655880*
> Actually ever since the conception of the BD architecture I had always thought that this would be possible somehow (2 integer cores in one module driving one thread). Perhaps we will find out upon release.


Not possible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kmon;14656477*
> Yes the arch appears to allow the possibility.


No, it doesn't.

Even with two tightly interlinked cores, the latency would be enormous.

It would be like having two people, separated by a river, trying to peel the same potato by throwing it back and forth after every stroke of the knife.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14656788*
> Could you? I don't know.
> 
> I do know JF_AMD already commented on a single thread working on both cores in the module.
> 
> I don't know his exact words, but he said it would be slower.


But will it out perform the 2500k in games?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14656956*
> But will it out perform the 2500k in games?


You'll have to wait for official benches.


----------



## Blameless

Best guess is no, but no one out side of AMD can claim to know for certain.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14656788*
> Could you? I don't know.
> 
> I do know JF_AMD already commented on a single thread working on both cores in the module.
> 
> I don't know his exact words, but he said it would be slower.


JF said that bulldozer still follows the 1 thread per core routine. Bulldozer's module design seems to just improve the efficeny between cores rather then act as individual "cores". The chances of "out of order" instruction on a single thread is going to be highly unlikely.


----------



## StarDestroyer

I can't do all this reading

What happened yesterday BD related at some computer show?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14657229*
> JF said that bulldozer still follows the 1 thread per core routine. Bulldozer's module design seems to just improve the efficeny between cores rather then act as individual "cores". The chances of "out of order" instruction on a single thread is going to be highly unlikely.


Yeah the design seems to draw on sharing a few more resources to reduce die space, allowing more cores in the same area.

Its kinda like what Intel did with HT, only better. The only thing it really needs to bring is the per core performance, then they'll have the complete package.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14657292*
> I can't do all this reading
> 
> What happened yesterday BD related at some computer show?


No word anywhere about the Hot Chips Show. I have been searching other forums all day but nothing new popping up.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;14656913*
> Reverse hyper-threading, and the ability to allow multiple cores to work on a single thread, has been a myth for almost a decade.
> 
> It's also been repeatedly and throughly debunked.
> 
> Even JF-AMD has explicitly refuted the idea (and a ludicrous idea its always been) that Bulldozer will be capable of such a feat:
> 
> See posts 153 and 154: http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/773816-amd-bulldozer-16.html
> 
> Not possible.
> 
> No, it doesn't.
> 
> Even with two tightly interlinked cores, the latency would be enormous.
> 
> It would be like having two people, separated by a river, trying to peel the same potato by throwing it back and forth after every stroke of the knife.


Yes the processing would be slower as the integer cores would be in contention with each other. Already said earlier see post 2616 & 2705
http://www.overclock.net/14648227-post2616.html
http://www.overclock.net/14656477-post2705.html

I thinking more as a communciation mechanism between integer cores or the using FPU in lieu of a stack for information sharing processing for closely binded processes.
In lieu of
Push and pop into register
do
Register to register copy

THIS approach is very possible and depending upon the instruction mix faster than sharing via memory or the stack.

this goes back to a discussion with Usario about why adding more modules won't help FPU contention. Doing that disscussion it was pointed out that the FPU could be used for enhance interthread communications and faster processing.


----------



## JF-AMD

Everyone, I am posting this one last time. Please bookmark it for me:

BULLDOZER HANDLES ONE THREAD PER CORE. RUNNING A SINGLE THREAD ON TWO INTEGER CORES WOULD RESULT IN SLOWER PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE THE TWO CORES WOULD HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH COHERENCY AND INSTRUCTION REASSEMBLING.

I like the analogy of peeling a potato and having to throw it across the river. Pretty accurate. Applications can speed up by breaking into different threads, but a thread is the lowest common denominator, it can't be easily subdivided. Too much of what happens in a thread is dependent on the step before. When it is all on one core the data is in the cachelines and easily accessible. If it is not in the cacheline, you have a cache miss, a stall and a wait cycle as you try to go find it. I know I am oversimplifying the situation, but it is nowhere near as parallel as some think.


----------



## linkin93

JF, If it's not too much trouble, could you possibly explain why one of the cores on 955 suddenly goes "dead" with zero activity until I reboot? It has me really confused. If you can't, no problem. Here is the link to a thread I created. Thanks.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14658149*
> Everyone, I am posting this one last time. Please bookmark it for me:
> 
> BULLDOZER HANDLES ONE THREAD PER CORE. RUNNING A SINGLE THREAD ON TWO INTEGER CORES WOULD RESULT IN SLOWER PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE THE TWO CORES WOULD HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH COHERENCY AND INSTRUCTION REASSEMBLING.
> 
> I like the analogy of peeling a potato and having to throw it across the river. Pretty accurate. Applications can speed up by breaking into different threads, but a thread is the lowest common denominator, it can't be easily subdivided. Too much of what happens in a thread is dependent on the step before. When it is all on one core the data is in the cachelines and easily accessible. If it is not in the cacheline, you have a cache miss, a stall and a wait cycle as you try to go find it. I know I am oversimplifying the situation, but it is nowhere near as parallel as some think.


JF,

The Server BD chips are being released before the desktop chips correct?


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14658149*
> Everyone, I am posting this one last time. Please bookmark it for me:
> 
> BULLDOZER HANDLES ONE THREAD PER CORE. RUNNING A SINGLE THREAD ON TWO INTEGER CORES WOULD RESULT IN SLOWER PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE THE TWO CORES WOULD HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH COHERENCY AND INSTRUCTION REASSEMBLING.
> 
> I like the analogy of peeling a potato and having to throw it across the river. Pretty accurate. Applications can speed up by breaking into different threads, but a thread is the lowest common denominator, it can't be easily subdivided. Too much of what happens in a thread is dependent on the step before. When it is all on one core the data is in the cachelines and easily accessible. If it is not in the cacheline, you have a cache miss, a stall and a wait cycle as you try to go find it. I know I am oversimplifying the situation, but it is nowhere near as parallel as some think.


hey can you tell us the truth about the 33% more performance from 30% more cores.
Is per core performance greater than phenom 2?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14657457*
> Yeah the design seems to draw on sharing a few more resources to reduce die space, allowing more cores in the same area.
> 
> Its kinda like what Intel did with HT, only better. The only thing it really needs to bring is the per core performance, then they'll have the complete package.


By my understanding, HT and this module design are radically different. Bulldozer impliments improved cache sharring while HT works around process timing (i.e., when CPU is idle on said core, it throws a second thread at it).

HT and AMD's "HT" are not alike. Intel is more about timing, AMD is more about parallelization of resources...you could say?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14658325*
> By my understanding, HT and this module design are radically different. Bulldozer impliments improved cache sharring while HT works around process timing (i.e., when CPU is idle on said core, it throws a second thread at it).
> 
> HT and AMD's "HT" are not alike. Intel is more about timing, AMD is more about paralization you could say.


AMD does not have "HT". 8 cores, 8 threads. No gimmicks. Low fat. Less filling.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14658149*
> Everyone, I am posting this one last time. Please bookmark it for me:
> 
> BULLDOZER HANDLES ONE THREAD PER CORE. RUNNING A SINGLE THREAD ON TWO INTEGER CORES WOULD RESULT IN SLOWER PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE THE TWO CORES WOULD HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH COHERENCY AND INSTRUCTION REASSEMBLING.
> 
> I like the analogy of peeling a potato and having to throw it across the river. Pretty accurate. Applications can speed up by breaking into different threads, but a thread is the lowest common denominator, it can't be easily subdivided. Too much of what happens in a thread is dependent on the step before. When it is all on one core the data is in the cachelines and easily accessible. If it is not in the cacheline, you have a cache miss, a stall and a wait cycle as you try to go find it. I know I am oversimplifying the situation, but it is nowhere near as parallel as some think.


I might sig this. Thank you for putting an end to the misinformation.


----------



## xd_1771

Thanks for the clarification, JF-AMD.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14658325*
> By my understanding, HT and this module design are radically different. Bulldozer impliments improved cache sharring while HT works around process timing (i.e., when CPU is idle on said core, it throws a second thread at it).
> 
> HT and AMD's "HT" are not alike. Intel is more about timing, AMD is more about parallelization of resources...you could say?


You're right, I only meant they're alike in that the design philosophy was the add more "cores" without using up the extra die space.

But in practice they're much different. Per core doesn't change with Intel, they just get a boost in multithreading, where as AMD is looking at a slight loss in per core for the additional threads. However AMD gains more than they lose in the end, I was never a fan of HT from Intel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14658355*
> AMD does not have "HT". 8 cores, 8 threads. No gimmicks. Low fat. Less filling.


Yeah it's not HT. Though it still has overhead.


----------



## Jtvd78

I remember seeing a while ago that the 2 cores can share a single thread because of the module. That was all a rumor? Then what's the point in putting the cores in a module? Why share the resources if you can't share the thread?


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jtvd78;14658590*
> I remember seeing a while ago that the 2 cores can share a single thread because of the module. That was all a rumor? Then what's the point in putting the cores in a module? Why share the resources if you can't share the thread?


Efficient use of die space, share resources that are used less frequently


----------



## Fr0sty

maybe the module design has a bigger purpose for the future ...

if amd sticked with the athlon design and improved it for 8 years or so ... how well could the bulldozer design be pushed is the real question


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14658149*
> Everyone, I am posting this one last time. Please bookmark it for me:
> 
> BULLDOZER HANDLES ONE THREAD PER CORE. RUNNING A SINGLE THREAD ON TWO INTEGER CORES WOULD RESULT IN SLOWER PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE THE TWO CORES WOULD HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH COHERENCY AND INSTRUCTION REASSEMBLING.
> 
> I like the analogy of peeling a potato and having to throw it across the river. Pretty accurate. Applications can speed up by breaking into different threads, but a thread is the lowest common denominator, it can't be easily subdivided. Too much of what happens in a thread is dependent on the step before. When it is all on one core the data is in the cachelines and easily accessible. If it is not in the cacheline, you have a cache miss, a stall and a wait cycle as you try to go find it. I know I am oversimplifying the situation, but it is nowhere near as parallel as some think.


Okay, my bad









Parallel processing capability would have been nice









Also would have been very nice to avoid the cache fetches


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14658810*
> maybe the module design has a bigger purpose for the future ...
> 
> if amd sticked with the athlon design and improved it for 8 years or so ... how well could the bulldozer design be pushed is the real question


I think that's a pretty good way to look at it. Though, I'd like them to have complete redesigns or refreshes instead of just pushing the same thing. Maybe they could get back to the top?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14658858*
> I think that's a pretty good way to look at it. Though, I'd like them to have complete redesigns or refreshes instead of just pushing the same thing. Maybe they could get back to the top?


AMD FX 128









You never know... maybe we're just a couple years away...

Windows 8 will support 128 bit...


----------



## xd_1771

I have a feeling that this module design is some day going to lead in Bulldozer-based CPUs with 3 integer cores per module... the scalability would make it possible for one to get more power, while die space is still used very efficiently and power consumption is lower.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14658971*
> AMD FX 128
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never know... maybe we're just a couple years away...
> 
> Windows 8 will support 128 bit...


Excuse me, Usario. I need to go change my pants.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14658988*
> I have a feeling that this module design is some day going to lead in Bulldozer-based CPUs with 3 integer cores per module... the scalability would make it possible for one to get more power, while die space is still used very efficiently and power consumption is lower.


This is only making me more excited, and it's not even been implemented yet!


----------



## Jtvd78

Instead of packing them in modules, just share the resources to all cores. Why restrict them to just 2 perr module. Just make it like an 8 core module


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14658186*
> JF, If it's not too much trouble, could you possibly explain why one of the cores on 955 suddenly goes "dead" with zero activity until I reboot? It has me really confused. If you can't, no problem. Here is the link to a thread I created. Thanks.


I don't answer client questions, sorry.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14658275*
> JF,
> 
> The Server BD chips are being released before the desktop chips correct?


We aren't saying.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *konspiracy;14658276*
> hey can you tell us the truth about the 33% more performance from 30% more cores.
> Is per core performance greater than phenom 2?


All performance will be shown at launch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14658988*
> I have a feeling that this module design is some day going to lead in Bulldozer-based CPUs with 3 integer cores per module... the scalability would make it possible for one to get more power, while die space is still used very efficiently and power consumption is lower.


Probably not. Odd numbers do not do well in binary worlds.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14659145*
> We aren't saying.


Works for me either way. BLT states they get the server bulldozer's on 10-10 meaning the desktops will either arrive before or after them.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14659034*
> Excuse me, Usario. I need to go change my pants.


Got a fresh pair of pants on? Good.

128-bit CPUs can theoretically support up to 1.29GB of RAM. By GB, I don't mean gigabytes. I mean GOOGOLbytes!









Seriously, though... it seems like it'll take FOREVER for 128-bit to get here. AMD64 supports up to 4PB of RAM.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14659155*
> Works for me either way. BLT states they get the server bulldozer's on 10-10 meaning the desktops will either arrive before or after them.


Welcome back, Seronx 2.0: Intel Edition!

Seriously, how hypocritical can you get?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14659166*
> Welcome back, Seronx 2.0: Intel Edition!
> 
> Seriously, how hypocritical can you get?


I just want to know when they arrive already damnit









Edit - Plus i said halloween so i'm close no matter what


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14659166*
> Got a fresh pair of pants on? Good.
> 
> 128-bit CPUs can theoretically support up to 1.29GB of RAM. By GB, I don't mean gigabytes. I mean GOOGOLbytes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, though... it seems like it'll take FOREVER for 128-bit to get here. AMD64 supports up to 4PB of RAM.


I'm going to run out of pants. I need to have at least one pair left for when bulldozer arrives.

You can't even get a TB of RAM on a motherboard, let alone 4PB.
Then again I'm not sure why you'd want peanut butter on your mobo.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14659191*
> I just want to know when they arrive already damnit


Who doesn't!? Damnit!


----------



## Usario

I think we all want the chip out NAO.

I think the September 19 date is most likely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14659214*
> I'm going to run out of pants. I need to have at least one pair left for when bulldozer arrives.
> 
> You can't even get a TB of RAM on a motherboard, let alone 4PB.
> Then again I'm not sure why you'd want peanut butter on your mobo.


I think I found the FX 128 hidden in Cinebench!


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msQPHxTUgzI[/ame]

Anyone wanna bet on the September 19th date?
I wonder if JF will tell us the date if it is September 19th!







+


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14659478*
> Anyone wanna bet on the September 19th date?
> I wonder if JF will tell us the date if it is September 19th!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +


I probably need to stop this before xd cleans up the thread again, but once more for t3h lulz

I think AMD has a bit of a surprise for us on the 19th... there will be many different "I see what you did thar" responses...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14659605*
> I probably need to stop this before xd cleans up the thread again, but once more for t3h lulz
> 
> I think AMD has a bit of a surprise for us on the 19th... there will be many different "I see what you did thar" responses...


An AMD based rig running OSX? What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14659166*
> Got a fresh pair of pants on? Good.
> 
> 128-bit CPUs can theoretically support up to 1.29GB of RAM. By GB, I don't mean gigabytes. I mean GOOGOLbytes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, though... it seems like it'll take FOREVER for 128-bit to get here. AMD64 supports up to 4PB of RAM.


Woah, that's a a lot of ram.








Look how long it has taken for things to use 4 cores,most apps are still 32 bit as well.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14659804*
> *An AMD based rig running OSX? What?*
> 
> Woah, that's a a lot of ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how long it has taken for things to use 4 cores,most apps are still 32 bit as well.


it can be done.
im counting on you amd DO NOT disappoint me.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14659804*
> An AMD based rig running OSX? What?


You've found the first of the "I see what you did thar"s.

OS: Windows 8
Info: Apple Mac Pro

HINT: read EVERYTHING carefully
Quote:


> Woah, that's a a lot of ram.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how long it has taken for things to use 4 cores,most apps are still 32 bit as well.


Yea. I guess it's just... well.... when going from 32 bit to 64 bit, we added 32 bits. So when going to 128 bit we're adding twice as many bits, so it'll take twice as long for it to be necessary.

That said, there are supercomputers with hundreds or even thousands of processors that have several exabytes of RAM.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

10GHz and a 7990.
But it's not a real FX CPU. ;-;


----------



## Fr0sty

i have yet to see a supercomputer with even one exabyte ... let alone several


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14659870*
> 10GHz and a 7990.
> But it's not a real FX CPU. ;-;


It's just Eng Sample 9192011.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14659872*
> i have yet to see a supercomputer with even one exabyte ... let alone several


I could've sworn I read of a computer with 2EB of RAM a while ago... maybe I was thinking of hard drive space


----------



## Fr0sty

would be fun to read that article ... can't expect nothing less the cern needing this much hdd space and beyond for just 100 sub atomic particle worth of data ... LOL


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14659844*
> You've found the first of the "I see what you did thar"s.
> 
> OS: Windows 8
> Info: Apple Mac Pro
> 
> HINT: read EVERYTHING carefully
> 
> Yea. I guess it's just... well.... when going from 32 bit to 64 bit, we added 32 bits. So when going to 128 bit we're adding twice as many bits, so it'll take twice as long for it to be necessary.
> 
> That said, there are supercomputers with hundreds or even thousands of processors that have several exabytes of RAM.


An AMD Engineering sample,and the 7990 only got 64FPS in the OpenGL test.
Maybe Apple is going to have an AMD powered mac pro,or it's just good work in PS.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


i have yet to see a supercomputer with even one exabyte ... let alone several


I have trouble with the food

computers are worse

edit:I sold my PC to a homeless american for guitar

come on BD


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

The lack of information, regarding BD, from Hot Chips 2011 is upsetting. I was hoping to hear something to give me hope. I have been holding off on updating my current rig waiting on solid BD information or benchmarks. The longer I wait the closer I get to going SB.

Edit: I just have to keep telling myself I have waited this long to update what is another month. I really hope BD is released in September. I even requested off work the last week of Sept so I could build and play with a new system.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14660218*
> An AMD Engineering sample,and the 7990 only got 64FPS in the OpenGL test.
> Maybe Apple is going to have an AMD powered mac pro,or it's just good work in PS.


Photoshop? Noooooo. Cinebench is the easiest benchmark to fake.

Find the "Cinebench_11" folder, then go to "cb_ranking", then either open the .txt there (your system) or the folder "reference results", then do whatever the hell you want









I have been hearing rumors Apple will move to AMD for the MacBook Air and 13" MacBook Pro when Trinity comes out, but I don't think they'll use them in the Mac Pro. Even if the IPC difference is negligible, Opterons are always clocked lower than Xeons to remain within a lower TDP.

Oh, and you're still missing one thing. Look at the version of Cinebench it ran.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14662039*
> The lack of information, regarding BD, from Hot Chips 2011 is upsetting. I was hoping to hear something to give me hope. I have been holding off on updating my current rig waiting on solid BD information or benchmarks. The longer I wait the closer I get to going SB.
> 
> Edit: I just have to keep telling myself I have waited this long to update what is another month. I really hope BD is released in September. I even requested off work the last week of Sept so I could build and play with a new system.


Did any of the people covering hot chips even MENTION BD?


----------



## SightUp

BD vs. 2500k

GO!


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jtvd78;14658590*
> I remember seeing a while ago that the 2 cores can share a single thread because of the module. That was all a rumor? Then what's the point in putting the cores in a module? Why share the resources if you can't share the thread?


the Hot Chips talk from 2010 (yeah, i watched it anyway) did mention that the shared resources would allow two threads to use the same resource for different batches. (or something along those lines) essentially avoiding redundancy with some crazy branch prediction algorithm that Intel was asking questions about at the end.

Additionally sharing resources benefits performace of single thread applications, as, this allows one core to use a huge amount of resources that would normally be shared.

This leads to my next question actually for JF...


----------



## Impunity

Idk if JF can comment on this but i had heard that the power gating was done per module so if i take my 8 core and turn off 4 cores, does that mean that i'm shutting down 2 complete modules? wouldnt it be more efficient to shut down 1 core in each module and leave more resources for the remaining core?


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14662403*
> 
> Did any of the people covering hot chips even MENTION BD?


There was a talk at the end of it titled: "Perf Power-Efficient Bulldozer-Core x86-64 Server, WS & Desktop Procs" but thats about all. i'm assuming it was just talking about the work they did to keep the chip under 95W. (yes i know there is a 125W version as well)


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Regarding Hot Chips 2011 I was hoping that AMD would have announced shipment or launch dates....I know wishful thinking


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14662039*
> The lack of information, regarding BD, from Hot Chips 2011 is upsetting. I was hoping to hear something to give me hope. I have been holding off on updating my current rig waiting on solid BD information or benchmarks. The longer I wait the closer I get to going SB.
> 
> Edit: I just have to keep telling myself I have waited this long to update what is another month. I really hope BD is released in September. I even requested off work the last week of Sept so I could build and play with a new system.


I specifically said (in this forum I believe) not to get too excited about hot chips. That is an insdustry forum. I am 99% sure that the stuff you wanted to hear is all the stuff that I have been saying all along will be available at launch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14662955*
> Idk if JF can comment on this but i had heard that the power gating was done per module so if i take my 8 core and turn off 4 cores, does that mean that i'm shutting down 2 complete modules? wouldnt it be more efficient to shut down 1 core in each module and leave more resources for the remaining core?


Power gating is by module. If you are running lightly threaded applications you would definitely want modules shut down so you can get a bigger boost. The benefit of having 100% of the module resources for one thread is marginal because there is not that much overhead from sharing.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14663952*
> I specifically said (in this forum I believe) not to get too excited about hot chips. That is an insdustry forum. I am 99% sure that the stuff you wanted to hear is all the stuff that I have been saying all along will be available at launch.


I know JF







I just had my hopes up that a few extra bread crumbs of info might have been thrown out at HotChips.







Believe me I follow the info you provide us, and like I said was just hoping we would get a lil something extra from Hot Chips







Cheers to you


----------



## Obakemono

I look forward to seeing how turbo core 2.0 will run the processor on lightly loaded threads, boosting the active core(s) to really high clocks and shutting down the idle cores.

And since IPC is not a constant, it is a null argument in this situation unless the software testing the IPC is neutral and shows no favoritism towards one cpu design or another.


----------



## Homeles

The only reason IPC is relevant is because of poor multi-core support from software developers. When they finally catch up, IPC won't matter nearly as much.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14664463*
> And like many others have said before "Not if it has terrible IPC"


Why would anyone think it will have poor ipc?
Only poor IPC I remember was the INTEL P4.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14664591*
> Why would anyone think it will have poor ipc?
> Only poor IPC I remember was the INTEL P4.


Good question.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14664532*
> The only reason IPC is relevant is because of poor multi-core support from software developers. When they finally catch up, IPC won't matter nearly as much.


When exactly when that going to be?

Also why wouldn't it matter?

We're still waiting for quads to be fully utilized aren't we?


----------



## nyates

Do we know what the clock speed / turbo of the 6 core coming out is going to be yet? I haven't seen anything anywhere... I'm probably just not looking hard enough.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14664835*
> When exactly when that going to be?
> *Let me just pull out my crystal ball.*
> 
> Also why wouldn't it matter?*
> Won't matter nearly as much =/= won't matter*
> 
> We're still waiting for quads to be fully utilized aren't we?
> *Yup.*


----------



## xd_1771

Decide for yourself.
Use your common sense. If your apps will leverage the available cores, 8 cores *likely* outeperforms the 4 on the LGA1155 platform's processors. There are also 6 core and 4 core variants. If you can't wait, LGA1155 and K SKU processor is a fine choice at the moment.
Again this is for "Bulldozer"/FX-series CPU discussion - not "get FX or 2500K" discussion.

Please use this thread to discuss about the FX-series processor only.
Cleaned up.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Anyway!
Less than a month before BD core based CPUs are released to the general public.
Can't wait to finally get my hands on one of these monsters.


----------



## Blackops_2

Any news on final date of launch?


----------



## hazarada

officially should be less then 10 days.. in fact if they were gonna be available to the general public in that time frame they should already have been released so expect another postponement


----------



## SobePmp

I've been hearing september 17th


----------



## Chuckclc

Guessing it should be on a Tuesday. So how about 8/30. Last Tuesday of the month, and they would make there delayed timeline.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14666967*
> Guessing it should be on a Tuesday. So how about 8/30. Last Tuesday of the month, and they would make there delayed timeline.


Certainly possible.
Would be awesome.


----------



## Impunity

well look at it this way. They said Q3. So it could be as late as Sept30. Its possible that they may delay further, but i am willing to bet their stock price would take a hit if they pushed it to Q4, let alone 2012.


----------



## nub

Charlie D at SA posted an Orochi die shot.
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die-size-is/


----------



## Hueristic




----------



## rickcooperjr

ok my comment is this 90% of the articles i have found about the bulldozer are all mixxed up jibberish from other sites most not very well researched so be carefull what you read and take to heart about bulldozer trust me im a amd fan i like the more bang for buck aproach rather than intels go for broke aproach so as i said most the websites and articles you read are nothing more than cobbled info from other sites which did the same


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14669087*
> Charlie D at SA posted an Orochi die shot.
> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die-size-is/


Presuming that Charlie's 315 mm^2 is correct, it appears that nvo at semiaccurate made a spectacularly accurate prediction of the die size at 312 mm^2 nearly a year ago, from the dimensions of the L2 cache on the Orochi die.


----------



## Fr0sty

http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.technic3d.com%2Fnews%2Fhardware%2Fcpus%2F6867-amd-praesentiert-details-der-bulldozer-archtitektur-auf-der-hot-chips-23.htm

couple of slides inside


----------



## JCPUser

Over at SA there are a lot of posters having a field day with the 315mm^2 die size. I know that is quite large and will be hot, but I don't see why the size ensures that it will suck.

As for the slides... well I guess it is nice to see the stuff from this years Hot Chips, however they don't really give any new info


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14669087*
> Charlie D at SA posted an Orochi die shot.
> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die-size-is/


This either means AMD has a monster chip (SB-E is huge too) or they have an inefficient and hot chip that they won't be profiting from.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14669881*
> This either means AMD has a monster chip (SB-E is huge too) or they have an inefficient and hot chip that they won't be profiting from.


Now that I look at it... Thuban is 346mm^2 so AMD is fitting more cores into less space (obviously this is mostly attributed to the process shrink) . If the chip is efficient enough to push _well past_ current performance levels then they should be fine as the manufacturing cost should be no more than Phenom II.


----------



## RAMP4NT

So since this is the only place on OCN that bulldozer talk is allowed, I thought I'd ask a broad question for some of the speculation experts lurking about. The whole point of Bulldozer hinges on wether applications will make use of its cores or not. When do you guys think that video games will start actually supporting 8 cores/threads, so that BD is able to use its full potential? I know BFBC3 is going to use 8 threads, but when do you guys believe a majority of games will switch over to the newer tech?


----------



## JCPUser

Not sure on the reliability of the site, but according their sources *AMD is denying the inclusion of a closed loop water cooling kit with their FX processors* in lieu of the normal stock cooler.

 Source

IMO, the Xbit article that broke this "news" was fishy and it seemed to me that it was written just to imply that bulldozer will be so hot that it can not be cooled via the usual dinky stock cooler. Not surprised to find that has AMD put the kibosh on that rumor.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

LOL. I've never heard kibosh before.

And how would the chip be inefficient or hot with a 315mm^2 die size; how does/would that affect it?


----------



## LocKDowN2222*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14670679*
> LOL. I've never heard kibosh before.
> 
> And how would the chip be inefficient or hot with a 315mm^2 die size; how does/would that affect it?


Tech N9ne.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


LOL. I've never heard kibosh before.

And how would the chip be inefficient or hot with a 315mm^2 die size; how does/would that affect it?


*kiÂ·bosh/kəˈbÃ¤SH/*
Noun: Put an end to; dispose of decisively.









As for the size, for a given cooling capacity the larger the die size the hotter it will get because there are more transistors in the chip generating heat. However, it yet to be seen if AMD is actually efficiently using those transistors. If the chips performs like a beast, it won't really matter if it runs a bit hotter than sandy bridge.

Plus bulldozers are supposed to be big, right ?


----------



## xd_1771

Looks like we have confirmed a model number as the "FX-8150" after all
Now what clock speeds...

Quote:



So since this is the only place on OCN that bulldozer talk is allowed, I thought I'd ask a broad question for some of the speculation experts lurking about. The whole point of Bulldozer hinges on wether applications will make use of its cores or not. When do you guys think that video games will start actually supporting 8 cores/threads, so that BD is able to use its full potential? I know BFBC3 is going to use 8 threads, but when do you guys believe a majority of games will switch over to the newer tech?


*How AMD's "Bulldozer" architecture works*
Thing about BD is that doesn't really matter... the FX 8 core processor can still be a logical choice on existing games.
It relates to the architecture. With the module-based approach, you can fit more integer cores in lower die space. Note that this results in slight loss of performance due to shared resources; when two integer cores in one module are being used, they would perform 80% as well as two regular integer cores in non module-based design. However, when one of the two integer cores is used, that one integer core has access to all the resources, resulting in higher performance. AMD ensures that processes will not take advantage of the other integer core in a module unless necessary, resulting in maximum performance. IN ADDITION, Turbo Core 2.0 will raise the clock speed when less cores are used, providing a performance boost for such less multithreaded apps. I don't see why the 8-core FX series processor is an illogical choice even for gamers. In games that utilise 4 threads (which are starting to become more common) there should be good performance - better than the 2 module/4 integer core version of the FX - while programs threaded for 8 threads still receive the benefit of an additional integer core and higher performance. This "chip multi-threading" concept is basically a more efficient version of Intel's HyperThreading. Each integer core in a module adds only 5% die space, so it is very efficient in terms of die space resulting in better performance for less expensive production and less power consumption. This, I believe, is a very smart processor design concept. It sort of ensures that gamers will still buy the 8 core for more performance.... once they come to understand the architecture and how it works.

^^^ Okay, that was a mouthful.... I think I should place a link to this post in my sig and label it "how BD works"


----------



## Jared2608

I can't wait for these to come out, just so we can finally have closure on the matter! It would be great if they are nice and strong, and I'm still hoping they will be if for no other reason that we've all been waiting for them for so long!!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LocKDowN2222**


Tech N9ne.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


huh???

sent from my computer using the internet


----------



## Evil Penguin

So is Orochi's die size 315 mm^2?


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


sent from my computer using the internet


Lol


----------



## The sword of Roland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7Nc...etailpage#t=4s


----------



## krabs

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The sword of Roland*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7Nc...etailpage#t=4s


That Macdonalds cup is extreme


----------



## Fr0sty

isnt that youtube page the same one that was used by obr to spread those fake leaks a while ago ????


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The sword of Roland*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7Nc...etailpage#t=4s


Ugh.

More OBR B0 crap.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Ugh.

More OBR B0 crap.


that's what i thought


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I thought OBR never had one?

Either way, it's nice to see no cold bug.


----------



## SightUp

So, I was reading that the die wasn't shrunk and that it isn't going to be as overclockable because of that. Can we assume that the 2500k overclocked is better?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14674260*
> So, I was reading that the die wasn't shrunk and that it isn't going to be as overclockable because of that. Can we assume that the 2500k overclocked is better?


link?


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14674260*
> Can we assume that the 2500k overclocked is better?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14674368*


I second that emotion..LOL


----------



## Impunity

Well as looking at the picture, it indicates 16MB L2 + L3 cache







thats a lot.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14674931*
> Well as looking at the picture, it indicates 16MB L2 + L3 cache
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats a lot.


heh


----------



## SightUp

This is the link I read but it seems to be down atm.

www.semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die.../comment-page-1/


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14675516*
> This is the link I read but it seems to be down atm.
> 
> www.semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die.../comment-page-1/


No where on that page does it say that it is still 45nm. The die size is 315nm^2 compared to the 45nm phenom II X6 which is around 350nm^2.

If you think about it that is about the right size because a quad 32nm sandybridge is around 260nm^2, meaning that AMD is using the die space more efficiently because it is around 35% smaller than if Intel shoved two sandy bridge dies on one chip. The large die size makes complete sense because of the eight full cores.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14674260*
> So, I was reading that *the die wasn't shrunk* and that *it isn't going to be as overclockable because of that.* Can we assume that the 2500k overclocked is better?


please tell me you understand computer stuff more ten the few basic words out there ...


----------



## Obakemono

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0[/ame]

This pretty sums up this thread. *Ludicrous* speed


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14677074*
> please tell me you understand computer stuff more ten the few basic words out there ...


Why are you trying to insult and put me down Fr0sty? You are making me sad. I thought this was a friendly computer site.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14677266*
> This pretty sums up this thread. *Ludicrous* speed


Surely you're not referring to the ludicrous speed that Bulldozer is released.









Anyone believing OBR results has issues.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14670997*
> Thing about BD is that doesn't really matter... the FX 8 core processor can still be a logical choice on existing games.
> It relates to the architecture. With the module-based approach, you can fit more integer cores in lower die space. Note that this results in slight loss of performance due to shared resources; when two integer cores in one module are being used, *they would perform 80% as well as two regular integer cores in non module-based design.* However, when one of the two integer cores is used, that one integer core has access to all the resources, resulting in higher performance. AMD ensures that processes will not take advantage of the other integer core in a module unless necessary, resulting in maximum performance. IN ADDITION, Turbo Core 2.0 will raise the clock speed when less cores are used, providing a performance boost for such less multithreaded apps. I don't see why the 8-core FX series processor is an illogical choice even for gamers. In games that utilise 4 threads (which are starting to become more common) there should be good performance - better than the 2 module/4 integer core version of the FX - while programs threaded for 8 threads still receive the benefit of an additional integer core and higher performance. This "chip multi-threading" concept is basically a more efficient version of Intel's HyperThreading. Each integer core in a module adds only 5% die space, so it is very efficient in terms of die space resulting in better performance for less expensive production and less power consumption. This, I believe, is a very smart processor design concept. It sort of ensures that gamers will still buy the 8 core for more performance.... once they come to understand the architecture and how it works.
> 
> ^^^ Okay, that was a mouthful.... I think I should place a link to this post in my sig and label it "how BD works"


Is 80% just an off the hip arbitrary guestimate, a theory based estimate by extrapolating what we've been told, or a confirmation from AMD or reputable source?

80% seems high to me if JFAMD is advocating the performance penalty is more marginal than that such that clockspeed increases can easily compensate for it. But if you worked out this figure for yourself or if someone from AMD mentioned it, then I would love to hear how you got it.

Edit:
Well I found my answer. AMD does say 80% in slide 6:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https://sites.google.com/site/lensfire1/home/db/AMDBulldozercompletedetails.pdf&chrome=true


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14674260*
> So, I was reading that the die wasn't shrunk and that it isn't going to be as overclockable because of that. Can we assume that the 2500k overclocked is better?


No

They're both 32nm

If you mean the size of the actual die, it's considerably smaller than thuban (346mm2 vs 315mm2) so it probably won't run too hot


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14670997*
> Looks like we have confirmed a model number as the "FX-8150" after all
> Now what clock speeds...
> 
> *How AMD's "Bulldozer" architecture works*
> Thing about BD is that doesn't really matter... the FX 8 core processor can still be a logical choice on existing games.
> It relates to the architecture. With the module-based approach, you can fit more integer cores in lower die space. Note that this results in slight loss of performance due to shared resources; when two integer cores in one module are being used, they would perform 80% as well as two regular integer cores in non module-based design. However, when one of the two integer cores is used, that one integer core has access to all the resources, resulting in higher performance. AMD ensures that processes will not take advantage of the other integer core in a module unless necessary, resulting in maximum performance. IN ADDITION, Turbo Core 2.0 will raise the clock speed when less cores are used, providing a performance boost for such less multithreaded apps. I don't see why the 8-core FX series processor is an illogical choice even for gamers. In games that utilise 4 threads (which are starting to become more common) there should be good performance - better than the 2 module/4 integer core version of the FX - while programs threaded for 8 threads still receive the benefit of an additional integer core and higher performance. This "chip multi-threading" concept is basically a more efficient version of Intel's HyperThreading. Each integer core in a module adds only 5% die space, so it is very efficient in terms of die space resulting in better performance for less expensive production and less power consumption. This, I believe, is a very smart processor design concept. It sort of ensures that gamers will still buy the 8 core for more performance.... once they come to understand the architecture and how it works.
> 
> ^^^ Okay, that was a mouthful.... I think I should place a link to this post in my sig and label it "how BD works"


Thanks for the reply, really cleared up a few misconceptions I had about how BD was going to work. One core being allowed the resources of the entire module does seem like it would increase performance, as well as the turbo 2.0. For some reason I was under the impression that if say 2 cores needed to be used, it would be two in one module, but I can see that this way is a lot more logical and efficient for the processor. You sir may have restored my faith in BD, I guess I'll join in on the waiting game now to see what I'm upgrading to this christmas.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14677294*
> Why are you trying to insult and put me down Fr0sty? You are making me sad. I thought this was a friendly computer site.


to clear things up

bulldozer is built on 32nm

i wont comment on the rest


----------



## Tweeky

Does anyone know when *Bulldozer II* will be released ?


----------



## rickcooperjr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor) is what i found on the web and that is best trust worthy for clock wise calculations for the amd bulldozer speeds since wikepedia goes through the patent setup so the numbers will 90% of time be accurate


----------



## rickcooperjr

for some reason it wont quick tab to the processor bulldozer thing so just click did you meen bulldozer processor it will show all the tech info on core speeds and such for all the known bulldozer cpus that have so far been pateneted lol upto fx-8170 lol


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14670997*
> ...However, when one of the two integer cores is used, that one integer core has access to all the resources, resulting in higher performance. AMD ensures that processes will not take advantage of the other integer core in a module unless necessary, resulting in maximum performance...
> 
> ...This "chip multi-threading" concept is basically a more efficient version of Intel's HyperThreading...


All amd has said about the matter is that a thread residing in a bd module is capable of utilizing twice as wide(which is not to be confused with twice as fast) fp pipe as long as the other thread isn't currently using its half of the fpu sandwich.

Everything else thats been said about this by various articles and forum posts is at best speculation or more likely a load of naive junk. Naturally people(and on occasion AMD themselves) like comparing it to HT since it makes a cool story but thats all it is - a story. In reality the amount of threads a core or module or whatever you call it can handle has nothing to do with the actual alu or fpu unit counts, their reason for sticking double the amount of integer units in the chip was best stated with the first thing to come out of amd's mouth about bd which went something along the lines of "small increase in cost and complexity - great increase of performance in certain workloads"


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14677787*
> Does anyone know when *Bulldozer II* will be released ?


let's follow bulldozer I first .. and the 2nd will come in due time .. shall we??

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rickcooperjr;14677872*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor) is what i found on the web and that is best trust worthy for clock wise calculations for the amd bulldozer speeds since wikepedia goes through the patent setup so the numbers will 90% of time be accurate


i lol'd at using wikipedia as a legit source of info


----------



## JCPUser

For those that want to view the _full set_ of hot chips slides then follow the link below (bottom of the page in the source). There were actually two sets of slides (total 33) so many of them have yet to be posted on these forums.

Source


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14678029*
> All amd has said about the matter is that a thread residing in a bd module is capable of utilizing twice as wide(which is not to be confused with twice as fast) fp pipe as long as the other thread isn't currently using its half of the fpu sandwich.
> 
> Everything else thats been said about this by various articles and forum posts is at best speculation or more likely a load of naive junk. Naturally people(and on occasion AMD themselves) like comparing it to HT since it makes a cool story but thats all it is - a story. In reality the amount of threads a core or module or whatever you call it can handle has nothing to do with the actual alu or fpu unit counts, their reason for sticking double the amount of integer units in the chip was best stated with the first thing to come out of amd's mouth about bd which went something along the lines of "small increase in cost and complexity - great increase of performance in certain workloads"


The only time we compare a bulldozer module to HT is in showing how both of us deal with 2 threads.

The reality is that this architecture was designed for highly threaded workloads and for those you need dedicated resources.

The reason we have more integer units is that ~90% of the work done by a CPU is integer. You need more integer, not more FP, unless you are in HPC. In that world you are probably looking at GPU for FLOPs, not CPU.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14678562*
> For those that want to view the _full set_ of hot chips slides then follow the link below (bottom of the page in the source). There were actually two sets of slides (total 33) so many of them have yet to be posted on these forums.
> 
> Source


thanks for the other slides


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14678116*
> i lol'd at using wikipedia as a legit source of info


Then please link us to a more reliable source of info.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14679313*
> Then please link us to a more reliable source of info.


See my sig. AMD isn't talking, or sharing the info we are after UNTIL launch.

That includes clock speeds, prices, of course performance benchmarks.

Everything is a guessing game right now. ANYONE can edit Wikipedia, so, that is hardly a reliable source of info at this point.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14679313*
> Then please link us to a more reliable source of info.


you really want me to answer that??


----------



## 855211

I just read through the slides posted a page back and it says that there are 940 pins on the chip, meaning that it should fit into current am3 sockets right?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


I just read through the slides posted a page back and it says that there are 940 pins on the chip, meaning that it should fit into current am3 sockets right?


Yes it will. Some mobo manufacturers have said that they'll support them with a BIOS update. However, AMD will not officially support Bulldozer in non-AM3+ motherboards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No, AM3 boards will not support Bulldozer.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Too many accusations being thrown around. AMD has been very clear on their stance for AM3+ support only for BD. Someone tosses out AM3 support, which we have clearly reiterated several times that we will not support, and suddenly people are calling me a PR flack and a liar.

Time will show who is right, I have no time for that thread, it's becoming less interesting with every post.


----------



## knoxy_14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14680279*
> I just read through the slides posted a page back and it says that there are 940 pins on the chip, meaning that it should fit into current am3 sockets right?


no only boards that have the black socket on them

EDIT: sorry i thought i read awhile back they only go in black sockets


----------



## 855211

meaning that 2nd gen bulldozer will actually NEED the am3+ socket because of the extra pin and larger pin holes, right?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


meaning that 2nd gen bulldozer will actually NEED the am3+ socket because of the extra pin and larger pin holes.


AM3+ 1st Gen Bulldozer
FM2 2nd Gen Bulldozer

Next Gen Bulldozer will be on a socket called FM2. 
http://www.techpowerup.com/149591/AM...rthbridge.html

Quote:



Korona platform, due for 2012, will consist of a new CPU architecture called "Piledriver", that succeeds the yet to be released "Bulldozer". Nothing else is known about Piledriver, except that the first high-end CPUs based on it will be codenamed "Komodo", and will pack 10 cores. Since this is a major platform layout rearrangement, Korona will introduce a new socket called FM2, it is quite logical to assume that the new socket will be incompatible with AM3+.


----------



## 855211

So am3+ is a dead end socket?

hopefully they can change to LGA instead of PGA. no pins to bend


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


So am3+ is a dead end socket?

hopefully they can change to LGA instead of PGA. no pins to bend


Have fun fixing bent pins when you drop a cpu into the socket by accident... at least when they're on the CPU it's easy to straighten them.


----------



## MadGoat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hueristic*













2x 72-bit memory channels? Don't we currently have 2x 64-bit Memory channels??

(Or are 4bits used for other addressing or something?)

and if this is a legit memory channel increase... 144bit vs 128bit? Not a crazy amount of increase no?

*EDIT* Just looked into it, I guess athlon 64 and up has been 144bit memory interfaces... (dual 72-bit controllers). I dont know why I was so sure it had always been 128 (64x2) channels... my bad...


----------



## Fr0sty

pga or lga it doesnt matter

as long as its good its ok for me


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rickcooperjr;14677872*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor) is what i found on the web and that is best trust worthy for clock wise calculations for the amd bulldozer speeds since wikepedia goes through the patent setup so the numbers will 90% of time be accurate


Any idiot can edit wikipedia
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rickcooperjr;14677931*
> for some reason it wont quick tab to the processor bulldozer thing so just click did you meen bulldozer processor it will show all the tech info on core speeds and such for all the known bulldozer cpus that have so far been pateneted lol upto fx-8170 lol


"patented"? What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14680508*
> So am3+ is a dead end socket?
> 
> hopefully they can change to LGA instead of PGA. no pins to bend


I hate LGA for various reasons.

Oh and for the record, I added the 8170P to Wikipedia based on a rumor.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

What is LGA and what is PGA? (Probably a newb/n00b question, I know...







)

The current socket for APU's is FM1 right? Does that mean that nex-gen Bulldozer will have onboard video like an APU or will both the APU and CPU be able to be on one board? ...Or am I jumping to conclusions?

Can I haz bulldozer now?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


What is LGA and what is PGA? (Probably a newb/n00b question, I know...







)

The current socket for APU's is FM1 right? Does that mean that nex-gen Bulldozer will have onboard video like an APU or will both the APU and CPU be able to be on one board? ...Or am I jumping to conclusions?

Can I haz bulldozer now?










PGA = pins on CPU
LGA = pins on mobo

BD-E will not have integrated graphics. I imagine the extra pins will not be used


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Will FM2 be the successor to both AM3+ _and_ FM1?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14681104*
> Will FM2 be the successor to both AM3+ _and_ FM1?


Presumably yes


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14681116*
> Presumably yes
> 
> Presumably yes


Double presumably yes must mean extra yes.

Damn. Ninja'd







+


----------



## Nintendo Maniac 64

Not just presumably, it's a definitely:
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1074974-tc-magazine-leaked-roadmap-shows-10-a.html


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Double presumably yes must mean extra yes.

Damn. Ninja'd







+










On my phone... I tapped on the text box, and with both the loading bar and the touchscreen keyboard present I can only see a couple lines of text... Didn't see where the first time I typed it ended up; I just guessed my phone froze and typed it again.

And yes, I am a ninja. I learned from Nigahiga Sensei.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


On my phone... I tapped on the text box, and with both the loading bar and the touchscreen keyboard present I can only see a couple lines of text... Didn't see where the first time I typed it ended up; I just guessed my phone froze and typed it again.

And yes, I am a ninja. I learned from Nigahiga Sensei.


Are you sure you didn't learn from Master NostraSeronx?

OT: Am I the only who thinks that the 6 Core variant will simply have 1 module disabled? And if so, I wonder if it's true that some motherboards will be able to unlock "hidden cores". Yep, just speculating.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14681063*
> PGA = pins on CPU
> LGA = pins on mobo
> 
> *BD-E will not have integrated graphics*. I imagine the extra pins will not be used


this is a rumor right now ... we will still have apu's from what i gathered

and still have discrete cpu's

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14681188*
> Are you sure you didn't learn from Master NostraSeronx?
> 
> OT: Am I the only who thinks that the 6 Core variant will simply have 1 module disabled? And if so, I wonder if it's true that some motherboards will be able to unlock "hidden cores". Yep, just speculating.


yeahh btw where is master seronx ???


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


*What is LGA and what is PGA?* (Probably a newb/n00b question, I know...







)

The current socket for APU's is FM1 right? Does that mean that nex-gen Bulldozer will have onboard video like an APU or will both the APU and CPU be able to be on one board? ...Or am I jumping to conclusions?

Can I haz bulldozer now?










LGA = Land grid array
PGA = Pin grid array


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are you sure you didn't learn from Master NostraSeronx?

OT: Am I the only who thinks that the 6 Core variant will simply have 1 module disabled? And if so, I wonder if it's true that some motherboards will be able to unlock "hidden cores". Yep, just speculating.











If Seronx is a ninja, then ninjas drive bulldozers.

I'm sure amd will keep doing what they've been doing for years.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


this is a rumor right now ... we will still have apu's from what i gathered

and still have discrete cpu's

yeahh btw where is master seronx ???










AMD hasn't said BD-E will be an apu, but they did say trinity would be. So I'm going to bet BD-E will be a CPU.

Seronx is probably in Sunnyvale.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


yeahh btw where is master seronx ???










He went MIA ever since his prediction didn't come true.

Also, this is where I got the Hidden Cores idea, which you prolly seen before...


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


AMD FX 128









You never know... maybe we're just a couple years away...

Windows 8 will support 128 bit...


People are just now starting to use 64 bit OS's and 80% of applications are still 32 bit coding, most games are still 32 bit as well, and the only reason people even use 64 bit is for more than 4gb of memory....


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Looks like we have confirmed a model number as the "FX-8150" after all
Now what clock speeds...

*How AMD's "Bulldozer" architecture works*
Thing about BD is that doesn't really matter... the FX 8 core processor can still be a logical choice on existing games.
It relates to the architecture. With the module-based approach, you can fit more integer cores in lower die space. Note that this results in slight loss of performance due to shared resources; when two integer cores in one module are being used, they would perform 80% as well as two regular integer cores in non module-based design. However, when one of the two integer cores is used, that one integer core has access to all the resources, resulting in higher performance. AMD ensures that processes will not take advantage of the other integer core in a module unless necessary, resulting in maximum performance. IN ADDITION, Turbo Core 2.0 will raise the clock speed when less cores are used, providing a performance boost for such less multithreaded apps. I don't see why the 8-core FX series processor is an illogical choice even for gamers. In games that utilise 4 threads (which are starting to become more common) there should be good performance - better than the 2 module/4 integer core version of the FX - while programs threaded for 8 threads still receive the benefit of an additional integer core and higher performance. This "chip multi-threading" concept is basically a more efficient version of Intel's HyperThreading. Each integer core in a module adds only 5% die space, so it is very efficient in terms of die space resulting in better performance for less expensive production and less power consumption. This, I believe, is a very smart processor design concept. It sort of ensures that gamers will still buy the 8 core for more performance.... once they come to understand the architecture and how it works.

^^^ Okay, that was a mouthful.... I think I should place a link to this post in my sig and label it "how BD works"










It helps in multithreaded games, great, but there is still 4 cores unused to their full potential. The question still remains if AMD is going to get more developers on bandwagon to support more then 2/4 cores in the lifespam of this FX chip.

8 cores are great and all, but when they get used by the client user in 2013, there will already be a better CPU that would outperform those 8 cores with 50% less.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


If Seronx is a ninja, then ninjas drive bulldozers.

I'm sure amd will keep doing what they've been doing for years.

AMD hasn't said BD-E will be an apu, but they did say trinity would be. So I'm going to bet BD-E will be a CPU.

Seronx is probably in Sunnyvale.


trinity will be .. but komodo wont be an apu









and if you didnt say bd-e wouldnt have apu's why did you say this then??

bulldozer improved and trinity will both be of the same generation of product .. will trinity feature the same bd-e features is of another discution

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


*BD-E will not have integrated graphics*. I imagine the extra pins will not be used



Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


He went MIA ever since his prediction didn't come true.

Also, this is where I got the Hidden Cores idea, which you prolly seen before...


yep .. can't wait for bulldozers release to see if some actually unlocks ...


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


He went MIA ever since his prediction didn't come true.

Also, this is where I got the Hidden Cores idea, which you prolly seen before...


I would be very surprised if the 6 and 4 core BD aren't orochi dies with 1 and 2 modules disabled, respectively. This would also explain why current leaks show the 4 core variant still having 8Mb of L3 cache.

EDIT:
Well it looks like Gigabyte is excited, LOL


----------



## purpleannex

...Gigabyte have got a lot of 990FXA motherboards to get rid of, with no future cpu compatability. So is it excitement or desperation?


----------



## Electroneng

Why would AMD release the FX chips on AM3+ if the socket only has a 4 - 6 month life Span? This would automatically doom the FX release.

IMO, They will extend the life of AM3+ to include the second generation of Bulldozer.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14681475*
> It helps in multithreaded games, great, but there is still 4 cores unused to their full potential. The question still remains if AMD is going to get more developers on bandwagon to support more then 2/4 cores in the lifespam of this FX chip.
> 
> 8 cores are great and all, but when they get used by the client user in 2013, there will already be a better CPU that would outperform those 8 cores with 50% less.


Fast processors aren't just used for gaming. Many of the programs that really need more cores already support them. Photoshop, After Effects, Sony Vegas, etc.


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;14683806*
> *Why would AMD release the FX chips on AM3+ if the socket only has a 4 - 6 month life Span?* This would automatically doom the FX release.
> 
> IMO, They will extend the life of AM3+ to include the second generation of Bulldozer.


The same reason intel released 1156.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;14683806*
> Why would AMD release the FX chips on AM3+ if the socket only has a 4 - 6 month life Span? This would automatically doom the FX release.
> 
> IMO, They will extend the life of AM3+ to include the second generation of Bulldozer.


You can always fry it on purpose and RMA it, they'll send you a new one, then you sell it and your mobo as well, maybe lower a price a little bit (not too drastic) then get the FM2 board with FM2 FX CPU.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14689282*
> You can always fry it on purpose and RMA it, they'll send you a new one, then you sell it and your mobo as well, maybe lower a price a little bit (not too drastic) then get the FM2 board with FM2 FX CPU.


That's called fraud.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


That's called fraud.


^this, some people help justify corporations evil practices because us the customer are just as crooked


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;14683806*
> Why would AMD release the FX chips on AM3+ if the socket only has a 4 - 6 month life Span? This would automatically doom the FX release.
> 
> IMO, They will extend the life of AM3+ to include the second generation of Bulldozer.


Every future roadmap says differently.









I'm not even sure why amd even stayed with AM3+ and didn't go straight to FM2 for the initial release of BD


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Electroneng*


Why would AMD release the FX chips on AM3+ if the socket only has a 4 - 6 month life Span? This would automatically doom the FX release.

IMO, They will extend the life of AM3+ to include the second generation of Bulldozer.


whats the truth on that, whats the future of am3+ and BD-e


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


whats the truth on that, whats the future of am3+ and BD-e


The truth is AM3+ has 6 months to live then BDe will be on FM2. Amd essentially pulled an "Intel" on you all


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep*


The truth is AM3+ has 6 months to live then BDe will be on FM2. Amd essentially pulled an "Intel" on you all


Not even Intel ditches a socket after 6 months. Unless FM2 based BD is a huge change and completely incompatible on AM3+,4 and 6 core BD should have support on AM3+ after FM2 hits.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Not even Intel ditches a socket after 6 months. Unless FM2 based BD is a huge change and completely incompatible on AM3+,4 and 6 core BD should have support on AM3+ after FM2 hits.


"should" but you don't know that for a fact.

Since not a lot is known, a lot is unknown.

This should be AMD's new slogan.


----------



## BlackVenom

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Since not a lot is known, a lot is unknown.


So... we don't know much? -.-


----------



## catharsis

pretty sure its already been stated by amd that am3+ motherboards will be compatible with with bd-e they just wont fully support all the new features.


----------



## Usario

It's likely AMD will release a modified BD-E compatible with AM3+ and 990FX, similar to the AM2+ Phenom IIs. Having socket longevity is one of AMD's major selling points.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*


So... we don't know much? -.-


I'm just using the famous Frosty quote that's very fitting.

We know a lot, yet, we know so little about actual performance, clocks, prices, release date, future of AM3+. Why Bulldozer is not officially supported in AM3, eventhough AM3+ is a refresh of AM3, and some Mobo manufacturers that will be supporting it. Need I go on?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm just using the famous Frosty quote that's very fitting.

We know a lot, yet, we know so little about actual performance, clocks, prices, release date, future of AM3+. Why Bulldozer is not officially supported in AM3, eventhough AM3+ is a refresh of AM3, and some Mobo manufacturers that will be supporting it. Need I go on?










AMD's AM3+ is slightly different,with a new chipset. AMD has stated they are not supporting BD on the AM3 socket,if BD is actually compatible with AM3,several features including Turbo core 2.0,Cool & quiet will be lost.


----------



## Chuckclc

What is this BD-E people are all of a sudden speaking of? All I have heard of is Bulldozer and the new FM2 series. I have heard of SB-E which will also be on a completely different motherboard then SB, but I havent heard anything, nor can I find anything about BD-E. Hard enough to find anything about BD for God sakes.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


What is this BD-E people are all of a sudden speaking of? All I have heard of is Bulldozer and the new FM2 series. I have heard of SB-E which will also be on a completely different motherboard then SB, but I havent heard anything, nor can I find anything about BD-E. Hard enough to find anything about BD for God sakes.












That's where it started.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*


So... we don't know much? -.-


If you go back to the very first post in this thread:

Quote:



As always, we don't discuss launch dates, actual performance, pricing or engineering milestones, but look forward to seeing a lot of new information coming out in the future.


Why was anyone expecting anything different.

Oh, and all of the benchmarks being passed around. Still not representative. That is all.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*











That's where it started.


Thanks. Hadnt seen that one.







No wonder its 10 months old. Didnt start looking at BD stuff till about march.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


That's where it started.


This will keep you going Chuckclc.








http://www.techpowerup.com/149591/AM...rthbridge.html


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you go back to the very first post in this thread:


*If you go back to June 1st:*










Clock is Ticking

From date:Wednesday, June 1, 2011
Added 90 days










Resulting date: Tuesday, August 30th

Thanks for sharing what you have known so far JF. Looking forward to Tuesday or sooner, what ever it may bring, as announced in front of thousands. Hope the Launch date is not another DELAY date.


----------



## JCPUser

As I have said before, it will be rather disconcerting if AMD has another "schedule slip" given the relatively short time between that announcement and today. Really, three months is NOT a long time especially if you consider how close Bulldozer is to being released. I don't want to think this... but if they do miss the end of August then you have to wonder if they were _willfully_ leading us on with that statement at Computex.









Either that -- or AMD really really sucks at setting schedules and making deadlines.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


*If you go back to June 1st:*


And if you go back a little further.



It sucks that we're stuck in this waiting game loop.

We're expected to go by some things that are said, but don't go by others.

Hope AMD gets their stuff together soon.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


As I have said before, it will be rather disconcerting if AMD has another "schedule slip" given the relatively short time between that announcement and today. Really, three months is NOT a long time especially if you consider how close Bulldozer is to being released. I don't want to think this... but if they do miss the end of August then you have to wonder if they where _willfully_ leading us on with that statement at Computex.









Either that -- or AMD really really sucks at setting schedules and making deadlines.


It's already looking like a September release tbh. I just wish AMD would be straight up with us.

Q2 deadline, 60 - 90 days, why can't they just give a proper release date? Oh right, they don't do that.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


"should" but you don't know that for a fact.

*Since not a lot is known, a lot is unknown. *

This should be AMD's new slogan.










i guess my slogan is making a killing


----------



## Tweeky

Is Bulldozer alive ?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Is Bulldozer alive ?


i'll have to ask jf-amd is he can post picture of the bulldozer mommy once she gives birth ... ohh wait that was months ago :O

its deffinatly alive in some obscure laboratory inside amd undergoing testing


----------



## Tweeky

All of these birthing pains is pain will Bulldozer ever live ?

Itâ€™s been so long is there any real chance that BD will ever come to life ?


----------



## Conner

I will have the stupidest grin when this chip is released.


----------



## JCPUser

JF has already made it fairly clear that AMD is not going to announce any release date. If AMD gets their way, then Bulldozer will just appear on shelves one day without any warning. On that day they would also release all the key information about the chip such as clock speeds and benchmarks.

Let's hope, for AMD's sake, that the day BD "appears" is no later than the end of Q3.


----------



## Conner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14693645*
> Is it just me or has this thread gotten a bit weird...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OT, JF has already made it fairly clear that AMD is not going to announce any release date. If AMD gets their way, then Bulldozer will just appear on shelves one day without any warning. On that day they would also release all the key information about the chip such as clock speeds and benchmarks.
> 
> Let's hope, for AMD's sake, that the day BD "appears" is no later than the end of Q3.


September most likely, so basically Q4


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conner;14693675*
> September most likely, so basically Q4


September is still Q3 last I checked


----------



## 2010rig

@JCPUser since we've pretty much discussed everything else already, we can have a little fun while we patiently wait. But yeah, let's get back on topic and discuss, what exactly?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14693687*
> September is still Q3 last I checked


Q3 wasn't the deadline given, nor is it within the 60-90 Day time frame. Whew, back on topic.


----------



## linkin93

I believe they said at Computex that they switched around the server/client launch dates.

So that makes this obsolete.

The computex stream was rather crappy live, but you can find the entire video on youtube.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14693800*
> I believe they said at Computex that they switched around the server/client launch dates.
> 
> So that makes this obsolete.
> 
> The computex stream was rather crappy live, but you can find the entire video on youtube.


Oh I know bro. They didn't meet that deadline, just like they're not going to meet the 60 - 90 Day estimate either.

There I said it.









I wonder what AMD will say on September 1st.... 30 - 60 days?


----------



## Naturecannon

In the past, AMD chips and pricing appeared weeks before avail via slip up of a few retailers in one way or another. I know for a fact the 1090T was sitting in the back room at FRYs weeks before its release, it killed me knowing it was there but no one would sell it to me. Just one example of many when the Thuban was close to release, I am sure some of you that were waiting anxiously for Thuban know what I am talking about, there was info everywhere of it becoming avail soon before the actual release.

Point is...........we are no where near seeing BD, when the time comes close someone will F'up and let the cat out of the bag one way or another.

For me, the BD Delays and AMD tactics gave me a sour taste for AMD. I never owned an Intel system but with the 25k, price/performance war no longer exists. You could call me an AMD Fanboy in the past but I lost the BD excitement, been let down too many times. I waited this long, no point in taking the plunge now, I will wait it out this winter and see whats on the table then, but I am betting on blue.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14693816*
> Oh I know bro. They didn't meet that deadline, just like they're not going to meet the 60 - 90 Day estimate either.
> 
> There I said it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what AMD will say on September 1st.... 30 - 60 days?


who's to know they wont have a limited supply but at least remove the nda's ??

anything is possible


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14694003*
> who's to know they wont have a limited supply but at least remove the nda's ??
> 
> anything is possible


Let's be honest, you and I both know it's not coming by the end of this month, as there are only 7 days left.

It would be nice, but if they only started production in August, how can it hit retail by the end of August? That's the sad truth.

AMD has to be the only company I know of that doesn't give out release dates *consistently*. With Llano, 6970, those are just examples of leaks that were accurate, I'm too lazy to look for more examples.

The inconsistencies are what bother me about this whole thing. We're told AMD never releases info such as performance data, release dates, etc. ( Benchmarks I can understand, I don't expect them. )

Here we have Llano performance 4 months ahead of its release.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74[/ame]

Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me AMD "never" reveals such info. ( Not talking to you Fr0sty.







)

/rant


----------



## purpleannex

^^^Totally agree^^^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purpleannex;13655979*
> This is pre launch, and i'd say AMD is blowing their own trumpet, AMD is super confident about Fusion/Llano, why not about Bulldozer?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Pfft, I got a laptop.
AMD can take as long as they want, I really don't care now.


----------



## Chuckclc

Pfft! Sorry, dont feel the same. If this does not happen in the next couple weeks, hello Sandy bridge, then welcome Ivy bridge. But i have faith.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14691522*
> pretty sure its already been stated by amd that am3+ motherboards will be compatible with with bd-e they just wont fully support all the new features.


I thought FM2 was going to be LGA. Definitely not compatible if that happens.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14691544*
> It's likely AMD will release a modified BD-E compatible with AM3+ and 990FX, similar to the AM2+ Phenom IIs. Having socket longevity is one of AMD's major selling points.


Not if the socket is holding back the processor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14693800*
> I believe they said at Computex that they switched around the server/client launch dates.
> 
> So that makes this obsolete.
> 
> The computex stream was rather crappy live, but you can find the entire video on youtube.


What did they say? Server first then desktop or vice versa?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14694325*
> Let's be honest, you and I both know it's not coming by the end of this month, as there are only 7 days left.
> 
> It would be nice, but if they only started production in August, how can it hit retail by the end of August? That's the sad truth.
> 
> AMD has to be the only company I know of that doesn't give out release dates *consistently*. With Llano, 6970, those are just examples of leaks that were accurate, I'm too lazy to look for more examples.
> 
> The inconsistencies are what bother me about this whole thing. We're told AMD never releases info such as performance data, release dates, etc. ( Benchmarks I can understand, I don't expect them. )
> 
> Here we have Llano performance 4 months ahead of its release.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
> 
> Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me AMD "never" reveals such info. ( Not talking to you Fr0sty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> /rant


This as usual


----------



## Nocturin

Since were running out of things to discuss, anyone want to pull up these recent leaks in the rumor area and dissect them?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14695882*
> Since were running out of things to discuss, anyone want to pull up these recent leaks in the rumor area and dissect them?


There's only one thing to summarize the BD ES numbers. Amd ES chips are terrible.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14695938*
> There's only one thing to summarize the BD ES numbers. Amd ES chips are terrible.


JF-AMD has told us before that AMD's ES chips are normally lower quality then the final retail product.


----------



## Jinny1

Still the results arent going to suddenly increase by 50%


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14696035*
> Still the results arent going to suddenly increase by 50%


This. ES chips are 99% production so while these numbers are bad i don't see them improving much
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14695994*
> JF-AMD has told us before that AMD's ES chips are normally lower quality then the final retail product.


See above. People are expecting leaps and bounds with production chips. Are amd fans going to revolt if production benchmarks are 1-2% better then ES benchmarks? The latest ES leak has it at 3.6Ghz doing 32M in Wprime at 10.414s. Take 2% off of that and you get 10.205s.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14696076*
> This. ES chips are 99% production so while these numbers are bad i don't see them improving much
> 
> See above. People are expecting leaps and bounds with production chips. *Are amd fans going to revolt if production benchmarks are 1-2% better then ES benchmarks?*


Revolt? No. Most everybody will just buy Intel. Not that hard.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I am going to look at it from a price / performance Ratio aspect. IF BD gives me good results equal to or greater then SB then I will go BD if the pricing is right


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14696161*
> I am going to look at it from a price / performance Ratio aspect. IF BD gives me good results equal to or greater then SB then I will go BD if the pricing is right


Amd has already said the 8150 will be 300 dollars. Problem with that is i don't see any BD chip beating the 2500K in price/performance. Only chip i see beating it is it's Ivy Bridge replacement


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14695994*
> JF-AMD has told us before that AMD's ES chips are normally lower quality then the final retail product.


I never said they were lower quality. I said not representative.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14696206*
> I never said they were lower quality. I said not representative.


My apologies JF-AMD for misquoting you


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Here let me fix that







and properly quote you








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14110811*
> Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?
> 
> Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.
> 
> Performance is based on:
> The silicon
> The microcode in the silicon
> The BIOS
> The compiler updates
> The drivers
> The OS optimizations
> Performance tuning by engineers
> 
> When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.


----------



## radaja

some new results from chiphell
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdmk;6908306*
> truecrypt updated, 990x performance is not normal.
> Official website of the Intel Xeon W3680 AES is 4.7G.
> 990x should be higher than this.


*FX8150P at 4.2GHz*









*i7 990X at 3.4GHz*









now maybe we can stop discussing babies


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14696624*
> some new results from chiphell
> 
> *FX8150P at 4.2GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *i7 990X at 3.4GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now maybe we can stop discussing babies


I hate when they compare to the 990X. We need a 2600K to compare it too.

My results at 4.6


----------



## radaja

*@ecnelitsep*,can you run your 2500K at 4.2GHz for a better comparison?
maybe someone with a 2600K can do a 4.2GHz run for us too?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14696781*
> *@ecnelitsep*,can you run your 2500K at 4.2GHz for a better comparison?
> maybe someone with a 2600K can do a 4.2GHz run for us too?


----------



## 855211

looks like the ipc is only slightly better than phenom


----------



## SightUp

Assuming that Bulldozer is better than the 2500k, and I buy one, will I need a new motherboard?


----------



## 855211

no you should be fine with yours. turbo core 2.0 and cool and quiet might not work though.


----------



## SightUp

What is the difference between 990FX and 890FX chipsets in terms of performance?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14697831*
> What is the difference between 990FX and 890FX chipsets in terms of performance?


Slim to none.


----------



## 855211

I don't think that there is any difference performance wise, just official bulldozer support and native SLI compatibility.

EDIT: Nija'd


----------



## SightUp

Do any of the Bulldozers have locked multipliers like the 1055t?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698206*
> Do any of the Bulldozers have locked multipliers like the 1055t?


ALL FX chips are unlocked.


----------



## SightUp

Is it true that this will be the last chip on this socket?


----------



## ecnelitsep

I really wish someone with a BD ES would disable a module and bench with 6 cores so we can compare against a 2500K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698271*
> Is it true that this will be the last chip on this socket?


Roadmaps say Yes


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14698350*
> I really wish someone with a BD ES would disable a module and bench with 6 cores so we can compare against a 2500K
> 
> Roadmaps say Yes


yeah

and will BD have seperate NB to OC?


----------



## SightUp

So even the next gen Bulldozers will have a new CPU socket?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698493*
> So even the next gen Bulldozers will have a new CPU socket?


Yes. In the next 6-8 months every BD chip will be on AM3+. When BD-E is released it will be for FM2


----------



## SightUp

What do you think the performance difference in FPS will be between a 1090t and a Bulldozer CPU?


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698714*
> What do you think the performance difference in FPS will be between a 1090t and a Bulldozer CPU?


Depends on the IPC of bulldozer. The ES leaks show a 5% ipc improvement over thuban meaning BD will game alittle better then the phenom II's


----------



## SightUp

Hm, What is the difference between 2500k and the 1090t for gaming then? How many FPS?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698758*
> Hm, What is the difference between 2500k and the 1090t for gaming then? How many FPS?


No offense, but, why don't you put ALL your questions in 1 post? You've asked 7 questions, in 7 posts.

We don't have performance data for BD yet, so it's anybody's guess at this point.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698758*
> Hm, What is the difference between 2500k and the 1090t for gaming then? How many FPS?


Depends on the game. In games like SC2 and WoW the 2500K holds a significant advantage because of it's IPC. In games like Crysis and such it's not that much.


----------



## SightUp

Because my next question is determined by the answer of the last question I ask.


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp;14698792*
> Because my next question is determined by the answer of the last question I ask.


Ask your questions however you want.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14698043*
> Slim to none.


You can't really say anything about the difference between 890FX and 990FX (performance wise) until BD is tested on both chipsets.


----------



## xd_1771

Okay enough of the baby discussion please








It's off topic and starting to err on the inappropriate side of things.
Cleaned up. Discussion about Bulldozer only or I'm taking out the infraction hammer.


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14698770*
> No offense, but, why don't you put ALL your questions in 1 post? You've asked 7 questions, in 7 posts.
> 
> We don't have performance data for BD yet, so it's anybody's guess at this point.


Hey they're just free bumps for a great thread


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14700003*
> Hey they're just free bumps for a great thread


The thread is Stickied already. It's always at the top.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


The thread is Stickied already. It's always at the top.










Yeah, but who's gonna make it stay *BOLD*


----------



## Evil Penguin

Yes... It needs to be bold and on top.


----------



## xd_1771

AMD Gaming Evolved is moving to PAX 2011 in Seattle, Washington








Probably means FX processor on display again like at gamescom!

I actually live no more than 100 miles from Seattle Washington. Unfortunately, if it hadn't been for my dad involuntarily deciding to go to the Philippines to complete a project for his work, I would have been there in Seattle at that time








Looks like a fun event. Displays, giveaways...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Yes... It needs to be bold and on top.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Hmmmm happening this weekend...I know this is just wishful thinking but, I wonder if AMD will really surprise us with some sort of announcement about a release


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Hmmmm happening this weekend...I know this is just wishful thinking but, I wonder if AMD will really surprise us with some sort of announcement about a release










well the release needs to be soon to reach the 90 day dead line AMD gave themselves


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


well the release needs to be soon to reach the 90 day dead line AMD gave themselves


meh I wouldn't get your hopes up. AMD will probably go silent about the alleged release date timeline.


----------



## Realityntatt

Yayyyyyy bulldozer release date on friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14696624*
> some new results from chiphell
> 
> *FX8150P at 4.2GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *i7 990X at 3.4GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now maybe we can stop discussing babies


Pics are not loading. Someone rehost?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln;14701609*
> Pics are not loading. Someone rehost?


try these direct links to the pics

990x
http://i55.tinypic.com/4rs32x.jpg

8150
http://i56.tinypic.com/in72oy.jpg


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14697138*
> looks like the ipc is only slightly better than phenom


IPC is not a make or break benchmark, so get over it.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14701662*
> IPC is not a make or break benchmark, so get over it.


i disagree


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14701662*
> IPC is not a make or break benchmark, so get over it.


In gaming it does.


----------



## Blackops_2

So the Chiphell supposed leaks are showing the 8150 not competing with the 990x or your 2500k? Im not familiar with the benchmark they ran.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14702076*
> In gaming it does.


Not necessarily. If BD clocks much higher, which it looks like it very easily should, it will still be much faster. IPC's only part of the equation.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14695318*
> I thought FM2 was going to be LGA. Definitely not compatible if that happens.


I hope it won't be. PGA is better.
Quote:


> Not if the socket is holding back the processor.


If a CPU is designed for a socket it's not realistic for the socket to "hold it back". Unless you're taking an i7 960 die and putting it on an LGA 1156 chip (exaggerating), it will not be held back because it will be designed to make use of the pins on that socket -- no more, no less.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14696076*
> This. ES chips are 99% production so while these numbers are bad i don't see them improving much
> 
> See above. People are expecting leaps and bounds with production chips. Are amd fans going to revolt if production benchmarks are 1-2% better then ES benchmarks? The latest ES leak has it at 3.6Ghz doing 32M in Wprime at 10.414s. Take 2% off of that and you get 10.205s.


Umm, *NO.* The difference can be more than 50%.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14696190*
> Amd has already said the 8150 will be 300 dollars. Problem with that is i don't see any BD chip beating the 2500K in price/performance. Only chip i see beating it is it's Ivy Bridge replacement












More meaningless guessing

You need to listen to Fr0sty
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*
> Since not too much is known, alot is unknown


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14696624*
> some new results from chiphell
> 
> *FX8150P at 4.2GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *i7 990X at 3.4GHz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now maybe we can stop discussing babies


So, wins some and loses some? Not that bad for an ES I guess.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14699466*
> You can't really say anything about the difference between 890FX and 990FX (performance wise) until BD is tested on both chipsets.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14701662*
> IPC is not a make or break benchmark, so get over it.


This.

IPC becomes irrelevant when clock speeds are taken into account, and once heavily multithreaded becomes the norm core count will be just as if not more important.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14702117*
> So the Chiphell supposed leaks are showing the 8150 not competing with the 990x or your 2500k? Im not familiar with the benchmark they ran.


I'm not familiar with it either, it's faster than my i5-2500k (at least in everything except AES) at my 24/7 clocks of 4,854MHz. Though I did see scaling when I ran the benchmark vs the other i5-2500ks based on clock speed.

However my ram is running 2160MHz 8-10-9-24 1T, I have an F3 HDD and according to the benchmark scores are affected by the ram and HDD.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14702135*
> Not necessarily. If BD clocks much higher, which it looks like it very easily should, it will still be much faster. IPC's only part of the equation.


This.
Pentium 4 could have easily been very competitive with the K8 Athlon in its time. At a higher clock speed a Pentium 4 processor could perform similar to a K8. The problem was, the clock speed could not scale well enough on the P4, and neither did the power consumption. If Bulldozer IPC is largely determined by clock speed, I don't think it is going to fail if it will be able to clock higher with lower power consumption. With the shared-module concept and use of modern boosting/power saving technologies, I think it likely will in such case.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14702730*
> This.
> Pentium 4 could have easily been very competitive with the K8 Athlon in its time. At a higher clock speed a Pentium 4 processor could perform similar to a K8. The problem was, the clock speed could not scale well enough on the P4, and neither did the power consumption. If Bulldozer IPC is largely determined by clock speed, I don't think it is going to fail if it will be able to clock higher with lower power consumption. With the shared-module concept and use of modern boosting/power saving technologies, I think it likely will in such case.


The only way that plays out the same is if in the end the overclocking ceiling is similar to the difference in clock rates at stock.

AMD played that game with Phenom II, increasing stock speeds upward of 3.7GHz on the 980 x4.

A 980 at stock looks like a compelling purchase for the price vs say an i5-760. However the difference in clock speeds at stock doesn't transfer over once overclocking is done.

That said AMD could produce a chip with high clock rates to stay competitive with SB even if it has an IPC disadvantage, the only question there is where the OC ceiling will land compared to the difference in stock clocks.


----------



## StarDestroyer

whats that chiphell chip, another eng. sample?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The only way that plays out the same is if in the end the overclocking ceiling is similar to the difference in clock rates at stock.

AMD played that game with Phenom II, increasing stock speeds upward of 3.7GHz on the 980 x4.

A 980 at stock looks like a compelling purchase for the price vs say an i5-760. However the difference in clock speeds at stock doesn't transfer over once overclocking is done.

That said AMD could produce a chip with high clock rates to stay competitive with SB even if it has an IPC disadvantage, the only question there is where the OC ceiling will land compared to the difference in stock clocks.


At this point we can only guess and hope.

The way things are going though I think it's _possible_ that Bulldozer will break the overclocking world record of 8.21GHz. Of course this means little; Phenom II has hit 7385MHz under LN2 but almost never ever hits 4.7GHz on air.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


try these direct links to the pics

990x
http://i55.tinypic.com/4rs32x.jpg

8150
http://i56.tinypic.com/in72oy.jpg


I did try the direct links earlier.

Well the 8150 image and link are now working. But the 990x image and link are not. Oh well, the 8150 is the one I wanted.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


At this point we can only guess and hope.

The way things are going though I think it's _possible_ that Bulldozer will break the overclocking world record of 8.21GHz.












You pulling a Seronx?

The way things are going, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*











You pulling a Seronx?

The way things are going, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.










Maybe from the ES at 2v doing 6.4GHz?


----------



## RoddimusPrime

How much longer do we have to wait!? lol... too long.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;14684268*
> Fast processors aren't just used for gaming. Many of the programs that really need more cores already support them. Photoshop, After Effects, Sony Vegas, etc.


That is well known...but I guess you made a good point.


----------



## Tatakai All

The wait for BD is comparable to waiting in line for the restroom while you have diarrhea. Some have given up hope and poop'd thier pants







while others are giving it their all to hang in there.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14702945*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You pulling a Seronx?
> 
> The way things are going, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14702998*
> Maybe from the ES at 2v doing 6.4GHz?


What he said.

Bulldozer ES does 6.4GHz...

_Release stepping_ Phenom II couldn't get past around 6.4GHz with liquid helium. It took a new stepping for it to clock higher (the record I believe is 7385MHz).

If the situation with BD is anything similar we will _likely_ (not definitely) see these pushing 8GHz+.

EDIT: Admittedly I hadn't heard of BD doing 6.4GHz before. Googled it and Gulftown samples came up.

Regardless.

ChipHell leaks show Bulldozer clocking relatively high with VERY low volts for AMD. These voltages are Nehalem-level, and we're talking about engineering samples. Since AMD has no cold bug, if you put 2v through a release stepping FX 8150 it's likely it will surpass 8GHz.


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14704701*
> The wait for BD is comparable to waiting in line for the restroom while you have diarrhea. Some have given up hope and poop'd thier pants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while others are giving it their all to hang in there.


LMAO!

I thing I'm going to wait until 2nd generation BD. Since I don't really have the cash at the moment, the wait will allow me to have a larger upgrade. Also with the new socket coming, it may future proof me a little. I've waited this long, might as well wait a bit longer and have a more fullfilling upgrade.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704721*
> What he said.
> 
> Bulldozer ES does 6.4GHz...
> 
> _Release stepping_ Phenom II couldn't get past around 6.4GHz with liquid helium. It took a new stepping for it to clock higher (the record I believe is 7385MHz).
> 
> If the situation with BD is anything similar we will _likely_ (not definitely) see these pushing 8GHz+.


You took a 1GHz increase (with extreme cooling) and turned it into 2GHz for bulldozer?

Tone it down a bit bro, it's leaking into every post you make.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14704769*
> You took a 1GHz increase (with extreme cooling) and turned it into 2GHz for bulldozer?
> 
> Tone it down a bit bro, it's leaking into every post you make.


No.

ONE stepping got Phenom II to clock nearly 1GHz higher.

There will be at least one more stepping for final release BD, and if history is any indication AMD will then release yet another higher clocking stepping.

Taking into account previous stepping changes and the relative clock speed increase, that _may_ translate into more than 2GHz.

And, as I clearly say in all of my posts similar to this, *I state nothing as fact.*


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704721*
> What he said.
> 
> Bulldozer ES does 6.4GHz...
> 
> _Release stepping_ Phenom II couldn't get past around 6.4GHz with liquid helium. It took a new stepping for it to clock higher (the record I believe is 7385MHz).
> 
> If the situation with BD is anything similar we will _likely_ (not definitely) see these pushing 8GHz+.
> 
> EDIT: Admittedly I hadn't heard of BD doing 6.4GHz before. Googled it and Gulftown samples came up.
> 
> Regardless.
> 
> ChipHell leaks show Bulldozer clocking relatively high with VERY low volts for AMD. These voltages are Nehalem-level, and we're talking about engineering samples. Since AMD has no cold bug, if you put 2v through a release stepping FX 8150 it's likely it will surpass 8GHz.


So, now that these are favorable results from *OBR*, you're suddenly a believer?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14375266*
> Oh and I'd also like to point out that the rumor that says FX 8150 also lists some wild clock speeds... and the only other source that says there's an FX 8150 is OBR. So I'd take it with a grain of salt.


What do we remember from OBR?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14334141*
> OBR is a troll
> 
> stop posting his garbage


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14334257*
> You would think that people would have learned this by now.


Need I go on?

What the heck, I leave you with this comment, from HIS video.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14704824*
> So, now that these are favorable results from *OBR*, you're suddenly a believer?
> 
> What do we remember from OBR?
> 
> Need I go on?


I had no idea the results were from OBR. As I said, I could not find a source. Since Balla is generally neutral, I didn't suspect fabrication.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704853*
> I had no idea the results were from OBR. As I said, I could not find a source. Since Balla is generally neutral, I didn't suspect fabrication.


Yea, it's OBR. He obviously has an agenda. What ever it is, I wouldn't trust what he says.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7NcbcUjEM[/ame]


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14704865*
> Yea, it's OBR. He obviously has an agenda. What ever it is, I wouldn't trust what he says.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7NcbcUjEM


lol, McDonald's cup as a pot?

I bet you this guy has a Phenom II sample to make these videos, and the benchmarks are pure Photoshop/making a stupid chart with no screenshots nor proof in Excel.

OBR's agenda is against AMD. If you read his blog, he calls JF a "******" and constantly says performance is terrible while providing no definite proof. He's the definition of an Intel fanboy. I bet he gets a big fat check from Intel, just like Balla does for converting AMD users


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704888*
> lol, McDonald's cup as a pot?
> 
> I bet you this guy has a Phenom II sample to make these videos, and the benchmarks are pure Photoshop/making a stupid chart with no screenshots nor proof in Excel.


Good to have you back.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14704911*
> Good to have you back.


I never left. I'm always going to swear by AMD in one post, and then express doubt in the next. There's just so little information, you never know.

Speaking of uncertainty, AMD, if you don't launch this chip within the next week I will make an Intel machine my sig rig for 24 hours.


----------



## 2010rig

Did you see his video description? I LOL'd.

OverClocked AMD Bulldozer under LN2
- No ColdBug (-180, -190 C)
- Good scaling with Voltage til 2,1 V
*- Poor performance ... but you know it*
- Asus CrossHair V Formula board

That's why I was confused that you were believing his garbage. Makes sense you didn't know it came from OBR.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14704988*
> Did you see his video description? I LOL'd.
> 
> OverClocked AMD Bulldozer under LN2
> - No ColdBug (-180, -190 C)
> - Good scaling with Voltage til 2,1 V
> *- Poor performance ... but you know it*
> - Asus CrossHair V Formula board
> 
> That's why I was confused that you were believing his garbage. Makes sense you didn't know it came from OBR.


I'd never believe a word from someone who posts garbage like this.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

The rumor mill was saying that OBR is an Intel distributor, though i put little stock in any rumor. Regardless, he is a lying idiot that is trolling everyone as much as possible. If the rumors are true, and I were Intel...I'd put as much distance between myself and that particular person as humanly possible. Accusations of lying from a self admitted liar, are worthless in any court of law.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14705049*
> I'd never believe a word from someone who posts garbage like this.


I am usually pretty mild mannered, but this kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way. Trolling is one thing... but to call a man a liar when he is being nice enough to inform us (NDA still in effect) that the current ES leaks/fakes are not representative of the future retail product's performance is uncalled for and pathetic. JF could of just kept quiet. Now I understand why he has been mad at the enthusiast crowd.

And then to top it off, OBR claims that retail bulldozer will perform worse than the ES which are already slower than Phenom II...... I have no more words for his stupidity.

*OBR*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

If bulldozer is a place holder for FM2, unless it is really delayed I don't think we'll see another stepping from AMD.

Just like I don't believe we'll see another stepping for SB, I think it's a one shot and we're done deal. But I also think part of that is because Ivy isn't going to be what 32nm was for 1156 in that we won't get low end dual cores only on 1155 with the 22nm process... That is assuming AMD puts up the numbers requiring Intel to stop milking everything they produce.

I don't believe JF ever commented those exact words. If you did he would breach the NDA agreement wouldn't he, because he would have to admit the results are legit in the first place? Correct me if I'm wrong, this is page 30 with 100 posts per page for me.

I thought it was more along the lines of "ES is not a final representation of the product"


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14705049*
> I'd never believe a word from someone who posts garbage like this.


What a psycho to take the time, to take the hatred to that level. I can see getting upset with AMD or whom ever and moving on but that was a little personal. Did JF run over his dog or something???


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OBR personal blog*
> And now Finally we come to the merits of the case - those real numbers. All of them are bad . Neither of the published results is not true and authentic , and all I modified or acquired with massively přetaktovaným processor!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OBR personal blog*
> There is evidence that this is my photos that I sent the Turks: i can post here anything: emails ... differently edited pictures, and more and more Proofs, ive manipulated and sent scores Them's DH ... Stop dreaming kids, Bulldozer is CRAP! Of Course, all results was FAKEs even know it, ive faked Them Well, the real numbers before NDA These Were and many more.


http://obrovsky.blogspot.com/2011/07/you-were-punkd.html

Things like this only serve to prove how disturbed he is. The simpleton doesn't even understand that he's only shooting himself in the foot where credibility is concerned.


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14704701*
> The wait for BD is comparable to waiting in line for the restroom while you have diarrhea. Some have given up hope and poop'd thier pants


Not sure if by this analogy you mean they bought an Intel chip and crapped themselves when they saw the performance, or if they realized they bought crap.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14705341*
> I don't believe JF ever commented those exact words. If you did he would breach the NDA agreement wouldn't he, because he would have to admit the results are legit in the first place? Correct me if I'm wrong, this is page 30 with 100 posts per page for me.
> 
> I thought it was more along the lines of "ES is not a final representation of the product"


Below is from this thread post #2876.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> Oh, and all of the benchmarks being passed around. Still not representative. That is all.


Also this is from the Zambezi thread over at XtremeSystems commenting on the same Chinese forums benchmarks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> Perhaps everyone should consider that AMD did not release these benchmarks and they might not even be real. Nothing I have seen, to date, has been representational of actual performance.


Sure it is a bit of a tap dance, but JF-AMD is basically saying that the benchmarks popping up around the net are not doing bulldozer justice.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704721*
> if you put 2v through a release stepping FX 8150 it's likely it will surpass 8GHz.


i wouldnt bet on that ....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14704804*
> *I state nothing as fact.*


but you make it sound like its close to facts or will be of high probability to become fact ...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14705470*
> Sure it is a bit of a tap dance, but JF-AMD is basically saying that the benchmarks popping up around the net are not doing bulldozer justice.


that's the same vibe i got from that particular quote taken from jf-amd's post


----------



## Jared2608

I guess all we can really do is hope that BD is as powerful as AMD wants it to be. It will be good for the people that already bought a 990FX board, and for the people who just want to build an AMD system. It will also be good for the people that use Intel because strong competition is always good!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14705470*
> Below is from this thread post #2876.
> 
> Also this is from the Zambezi thread over at XtremeSystems commenting on the same Chinese forums benchmarks.
> 
> Sure it is a bit of a tap dance, but JF-AMD is basically saying that the benchmarks popping up around the net are not doing bulldozer justice.


Meh, whose to know? I do know John is the director of marketing, these benches aren't official and they're bad PR. What else would a marketing man say about unofficial benchmarks from a product that is on perpetual delay atm?

At this point I'm going to keep waiting like everyone else, spin seems to be present on both sides. But 2010rig has been saying what I've been thinking, we know ES samples are out there, we know when AMD has a good product they gloat about it openly (Llano), yet we have (reportedly) poor ES performance, and release that has been delayed for over three months now.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14706191*
> Meh, whose to know? I do know John is the director of marketing, these benches aren't official and they're bad PR. What else would a marketing man say about unofficial benchmarks from a product that is on perpetual delay atm?
> 
> At this point I'm going to keep waiting like everyone else, spin seems to be present on both sides. But 2010rig has been saying what I've been thinking, we know ES samples are out there, we know when AMD has a good product they gloat about it openly (Llano), yet we have (reportedly) poor ES performance, and release that has been delayed for over three months now.


He doesn't need to say anything. Those aren't the first benchmarks that have shown BD to suck and this is the first time he has been so direct. However, you are free to think what you like.

What I do know is that if AMD releases a CPU that performs within 20% of that ES (in a highly trended benchmark like Cinebench) they are in trouble. Bulldozer is not just for enthusiasts, but also is their server and future mainstream core. It has to be much better than Phenom II in every way or Intel will just simply crush them and we'll have a monopoly on our hands.

Common sense tells me that John is not playing spin doctor and that AMD didn't spent 6 years developing a core that performs worse than their current design.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah you can look at it like that.

Or you could think, they spent six years developing one new design and it is what it is.

Whats the other option, refresh Phenom II on 32nm? It's not like they can't do that, they've been doing it for six years now...

The point is they need something new, and it really doesn't matter if it's 30% faster than Phenom II or 10% faster, it just has to be new at this point.

Another thing to consider is we're not talking about expanding and improving upon a tried and trusted design, bulldozer is unique, nobody has done anything like it yet. Time spent developing does not assume the final product will reflect that time spent.


----------



## Fr0sty

we allready have a monopoly in hand


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14706394*
> we allready have a monopoly in hand


Pretty close, sad to say. Intel is the last company I'd like to see in that position.

The 955 is already $105 on Newegg.


----------



## Fr0sty

pretty close??

how many % of the cpu market does intel have in their control???

90% ??? id call that a monopoly


----------



## Jared2608

Oh ya, it's a monopoly no two ways.


----------



## Chuckclc

So is it still 5 days till BD drops? Tuesday the 30th?


----------



## Jared2608

I doubt it!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14706548*
> pretty close??
> 
> how many % of the cpu market does intel have in their control???
> 
> 90% ??? id call that a monopoly


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14706576*
> So is it still 5 days till BD drops? Tuesday the 30th?


We won't know until the 30th. No official statements have been made regarding the release date of BD, only rumors.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14706576*
> So is it still 5 days till BD drops? Tuesday the 30th?


that would be a nice surprise, but I think more delay for whatever reason


----------



## ecnelitsep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14706576*
> So is it still *67* days till BD drops?


Yes... Yes it is


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14707040*
> Yes... Yes it is


fanboy alert!!!


----------



## jck

I see the reading-into is still going on.









I'm just gonna wait patiently...like have been doing.


----------



## JF-AMD

ALL BENCHMARKS NOT PROVIDED BY AMD AND SHOWN PRIOR TO LAUNCH HAVE A VERY HIGH PROBABILITY OF BEING WRONG.

Period.

Why does everyone continue to fight over these things?

There is a reason that you release benchmarks at launch and you don't put them out earlier.

You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14707998*
> ALL BENCHMARKS NOT PROVIDED BY AMD AND SHOWN PRIOR TO LAUNCH HAVE A VERY HIGH PROBABILITY OF BEING WRONG.
> 
> Period.
> 
> Why does everyone continue to fight over these things?
> 
> There is a reason that you release benchmarks at launch and you don't put them out earlier.
> 
> You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.


Sigged.

Most of the people who look at the benchmarks as representative of final performance have a predetermined stance and want AMD to fail anyway.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14707998*
> ALL BENCHMARKS NOT PROVIDED BY AMD AND SHOWN PRIOR TO LAUNCH HAVE A VERY HIGH PROBABILITY OF BEING WRONG.
> 
> Period.
> 
> Why does everyone continue to fight over these things?
> 
> There is a reason that you release benchmarks at launch and you don't put them out earlier.
> 
> You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.































:specool:


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14704701*
> The wait for BD is comparable to waiting in line for the restroom while you have diarrhea. Some have given up hope and poop'd thier pants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while others are giving it their all to hang in there.


----------



## dir_d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14704701*
> The wait for BD is comparable to waiting in line for the restroom while you have diarrhea. Some have given up hope and poop'd thier pants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while others are giving it their all to hang in there.


I pooped i couldn't wait any longer...Got rid of my 965 C3 and GD70


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ecnelitsep;14709135*
> I love how you feed everyones self delusions of how the production chips are going to be twice as fast as the leaked es benchmarks. You work for Amd. They pay you to say this bs. Anyone with a brain and any common sense doesn't believe a word you have to say.


Honestly, JF-AMD did not say BD production chips will be twice as fast, he only stated that the ES benchmarks are not indicative of final performance.

He clearly said:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.


He's under NDA, and I'm sure he likes his job. He's not going to jeopardize it and give us info he's not allowed to. As much as we all we want to know that information, let's be respectful and grateful of his time, since he's not getting paid to reply in forums. Remember, he's a server guy, not a desktop guy, he's under no obligation to even answer our questions.

I may not agree with everything he says, and even have fun with some of his quotes, but let's not disrespect him either. That's not cool.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

After all of the garbage I've seen posted in various places, I can clearly understand John's position on dealing w/ the client side crowd. It's starting to look like Obrovsky himself may be trolling the thread.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.


I find this statement ridiculous JF.

So you say we can speculate all we want,but then ask us not to follow through

With our speculations?

Speculations always lead to "mights" "coulds" "possibles" "likelys" "Good chance"

Thats what Speculating is!!!

Even the stuff AMD has released like slides,architecture info with in this thread

Can only be speculated on by us,and we will still end up with a bunch of "mights"

This thread + AMD's delays will always equal Pure Speculation with no real facts


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14709578*
> I find this statement ridiculous JF.
> 
> So you say we can speculate all we want,but then ask us not to follow through
> 
> With our speculations?
> 
> Speculations always lead to "mights" "coulds" "possibles" "likelys" "Good chance"
> 
> Thats what Speculating is!!!
> 
> Even the stuff AMD has released like slides,architecture info with in this thread
> 
> Can only be speculated on by us,and we will still end up with a bunch of "mights"
> 
> This thread + AMD's delays will always equal Pure Speculation with no real facts


hes saying "all the speculation in the world wont get you accurate results" thats all.


----------



## Phantom123

Some people may take speculation as facts and make a bad decision on what purchase to make.

I must applaud AMD though for keeping everything so secret. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing though.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14709578*
> I find this statement ridiculous JF.
> 
> So you say we can speculate all we want,but then ask us not to follow through
> 
> With our speculations?
> 
> Speculations always lead to "mights" "coulds" "possibles" "likelys" "Good chance"
> 
> Thats what Speculating is!!!
> 
> Even the stuff AMD has released like slides,architecture info with in this thread
> 
> Can only be speculated on by us,and we will still end up with a bunch of "mights"
> 
> This thread + AMD's delays will always equal Pure Speculation with no real facts


speculation =/= fact

And too many people are making statements that do not start with "I do not have a cpu in my hand but, my uninformed guess is..."

Instead people are saying "according to...."

The reality is that if you say something untrue enough times, people believe it as fact.

THAT is my issue. I have no problem with the speculation, but I have a problem when people start interpreting things as facts instead of guesses.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14709750*
> speculation =/= fact
> 
> And too many people are making statements that do not start with "I do not have a cpu in my hand but, my uninformed guess is..."
> 
> Instead people are saying "according to...."
> 
> The reality is that if you say something untrue enough times, people believe it as fact.
> 
> THAT is my issue. I have no problem with the speculation, but I have a problem when people start interpreting things as facts instead of guesses.


AMD releases NO performance info, just delays, no wonder people don't know what to expect

its 4-6-8 core, thats all thats known


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14709813*
> AMD releases NO performance info, just delays, no wonder people don't know what to expect
> 
> its 4-6-8 core, thats all thats known


And you think complaining about it is going to change that?

If it means that much to you, you should just go Intel. Worrying about something you can't change is unneeded stress.


----------



## StarDestroyer

why did JF-AMD start this blog, what real info is given


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14709750*
> speculation =/= fact
> 
> And too many people are making statements that do not start with "I do not have a cpu in my hand but, my uninformed guess is..."
> 
> Instead people are saying "according to...."
> 
> The reality is that if you say something untrue enough times, people believe it as fact.
> 
> THAT is my issue. I have no problem with the speculation, but I have a problem when people start interpreting things as facts instead of guesses.


I have a question just for conversation sake. Has anything that has been posted anywhere remotely close to what you would deem semi accurate to what we can expect?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14709890*
> why did JF-AMD start this blog, what real info is given


There has been a lot of architectural information given. Performance is just one aspect of the chip.

I am definitely not worried about it under-performing though.


----------



## Canis-X

Gotta love the trolls!!! Not a day without 'em. GJ guys!!! Keep it up and JF won't come back and post anything at all.....that'll do you a lot of good!!!


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14709935*
> Gotta love the trolls!!! Not a day without 'em. GJ guys!!! Keep it up and JF won't come back and post anything at all.....that'll do you a lot of good!!!


I hope for the sake of us that actually pay attention, that that doesn't happen.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14709935*
> Gotta love the trolls!!! Not a day without 'em. GJ guys!!! Keep it up and JF won't come back and post anything at all.....that'll do you a lot of good!!!


I say edit the blog to 1-2 pages and close it


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14709890*
> why did JF-AMD start this blog, what real info is given


Theres a lot you can learn about a car engine without knowing the Horsepower or Torque figures. The same is true of a CPU. and over the last 300 pages of mouth foaming, trolling, and navel gazing, there has been some useful insight JF has shared with us. In fact here will likely be another example:

JF, i've heard what seems to be conflicting understanding about the Turbo 2.0. I've heard some here and elsewhere state that cores are disabled in half a module leaving more resources for the other half, but then AMD has stated that the power gating is done at the module level leaving both cores cold if its switched off. Can you clarify how resources are shared in a scenario with multiple cores disabled? With what effect does this have on overall clock speed and performance for a lightly threaded application?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14709956*
> I say edit the blog to 1-2 pages and close it


I say, *you* don't have to visit here so close it in your own mind's eye and go about your day.









Cheers!!


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14709956*
> I say edit the blog to 1-2 pages and close it


Then it wouldnt be a "blog". If it was just an information thread then yes, but it is not. It is a thread to drive JF-AMD crazy apparently.


----------



## kzone75

It'll be coming thru the mountain when it comes.. I enjoy watching you guys speculate, so that I don't have to.







But seriously, I think you guys could treat JF a little better. He tells us as much as he's allowed or want to. And on his own time.

As for me, I have no trouble waiting. It'll just let me enjoy my 965BE for a little while longer.









My uninformed guess is that BD will be exactly as fast as it's supposed to be.


----------



## xd_1771

I fully understand AMD's point of view regarding details of the launch. I believe it has to do a lot with the competition. With both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge release also not far away, revealing of details may allow the competitor to change schedules in favour of being able to better compete with the FX-Series processor. This may be the first time for a long time that AMD has released a processor that is able to compete (in the high end segment, particularly high end gaming segment). Companies must be sensitive with details revealed at this point.

I have also cleaned up the thread. Again, the OCN staff will not hesitate to take action when it is necessary. I don't think ecnelitsep will be bothering us again.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


speculation =/= fact

And too many people are making statements that do not start with "I do not have a cpu in my hand but, my uninformed guess is..."

Instead people are saying "according to...."

The reality is that if you say something untrue enough times, people believe it as fact.

THAT is my issue. I have no problem with the speculation, but I have a problem when people start interpreting things as facts instead of guesses.


I understand that,but i'm sure that there are a few AMD loyalist in this thread

who stop the FUD,and set the uninformed straight,So you really dont need to.

And the ones who turn speculation into fact,well you cant help these types.

Even if AMD released an actual Benchmark they will find something wrong

and complain because thats just what they do









I know it must be hard to tune into this thread and read the BS and not

respond,but it seems every other week you post this same sort of statement

and it does no good.if you really want it to stop,talk to your boss's about

a back up launch program when delays happen to calm the masses.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I fully understand AMD's point of view regarding details of the launch. I believe it has to do a lot with the competition. With both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge release, revealing of details may allow the competitor to change schedules in favour of being able to better compete with the FX-Series processor. This may be the first time for a long time that AMD has released a processor that is able to compete. Companies must be sensitive with details revealed at this point.

I have also cleaned up the thread. Again, the OCN staff will not hesitate to take action when it is necessary. I don't think ecnelitsep will be bothering us again.










This is one of those times where a mod needs a rep button.

I also completely agree with your theory. AMD didn't give any details on the 6990 before launch because they knew that the 590 was in development. I see this as the exact same situation.


----------



## Canis-X

^This


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


This is one of those times where a mod needs a rep button.

I also completely agree with your theory. AMD didn't give any details on the 6990 before launch because they knew that the 590 was in development. I see this as the exact same situation.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


^This


/\\This/\\ + /\\This = AWESOME!


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14709893*
> I have a question just for conversation sake. Has anything that has been posted anywhere remotely close to what you would deem semi accurate to what we can expect?


I'm sure that can only be answered at launch date, which cannot be announced...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


Theres a lot you can learn about a car engine without knowing the Horsepower or Torque figures. The same is true of a CPU. and over the last 300 pages of mouth foaming, trolling, and navel gazing, there has been some useful insight JF has shared with us. In fact here will likely be another example:

JF, i've heard what seems to be conflicting understanding about the Turbo 2.0. I've heard some here and elsewhere state that cores are disabled in half a module leaving more resources for the other half, but then AMD has stated that the power gating is done at the module level leaving both cores cold if its switched off. Can you clarify how resources are shared in a scenario with multiple cores disabled? With what effect does this have on overall clock speed and performance for a lightly threaded application?


There are 2 boost states, one with all modules on and one with half of the modules all.

Inside of a module, all of the components are either on or off. You don't gate off only one core.

You *generally* get better performance by having half of the modules gated off to get the boost in clock speed than in having all modules on but only one core active per module.

I know a lot of people here seem to be having a hard time getting their heads around that, but the reality is that the overhead from sharing is pretty low, so one thread having all of the resources is a small boost to it. Maybe in a a really cache-heavy world having all of the L2 would help. But I believe that to be a corner case and would rather have modules off to get the boost.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I hope for the sake of us that actually pay attention, that that doesn't happen.


^^ What I've worried about.

We're getting free input from an upper-level guy at AMD. 
He's telling us what he can without losing his job, and he's been quite civil considering the poking he's taken from some.

I'm glad John takes his time to be here and tell us what he's allowed to by his work (legal team...right, John? hehehe).

Just hope he's got more patience left.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I fully understand AMD's point of view regarding details of the launch. I believe it has to do a lot with the competition. With both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge release also not far away, revealing of details may allow the competitor to change schedules in favour of being able to better compete with the FX-Series processor. This may be the first time for a long time that AMD has released a processor that is able to compete (in the high end segment, particularly high end gaming segment). Companies must be sensitive with details revealed at this point.

I have also cleaned up the thread. Again, the OCN staff will not hesitate to take action when it is necessary. *I don't think ecnelitsep will be bothering us again.*










You just put a big smile on my face when I saw that...









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


*This is one of those times where a mod needs a rep button.
*
I also completely agree with your theory. AMD didn't give any details on the 6990 before launch because they knew that the 590 was in development. I see this as the exact same situation.


Very much agreed there.

Admin needs to give some cookies to xd_1771 for doing that. It's one thing to not agree...one thing to not like AMD...but...well...I'm just glad that person's gone.


----------



## xd_1771

I think a key misconception about the FX series is architecture. Because many don't know how it works, people are confused as to why an 8 core is being priced at $300. People have been utterly convinced that this will be another regular CPU. They don't know about the turbo core boosts, nor do they know about the module-based architecture, which makes the pricing of 8 core at $300 entirely possible, as well as under 100W TDP full load for all 8 cores.

One might care to notice that while AMD has not released clock speeds or such details about the FX, they have talked significantly about and have revealed so many details about how the new architecture actually works, in a way that benefits both them as a company, GF as the fab, and us as the consumer.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I think a key misconception about the FX series is architecture. Because many don't know how it works, people are confused as to why an 8 core is being priced at $300. People have been utterly convinced that this will be another regular CPU. They don't know about the turbo core boosts, nor do they know about the module-based architecture, which makes the pricing of 8 core at $300 entirely possible, as well as under 100W TDP full load for all 8 cores.

One might care to notice that while AMD has not released clock speeds or such details about the FX, they have talked significantly about and have revealed so many details about how the new architecture actually works, in a way that benefits both them as a company, GF as the fab, and us as the consumer.


And like you said/eluded to...AMD putting out benchmarks far before release...or even soon before...gives their competition, Intel, information.

The longer they wait...the better. Then Intel doesn't have a official word as to where AMD is performance-wise. It's a smart move, from a business perspective...and keeps Intel from knowing what their next level CPU has to do in 6-12 months.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


There are 2 boost states, one with all modules on and one with half of the modules all.

Inside of a module, all of the components are either on or off. You don't gate off only one core.

You *generally* get better performance by having half of the modules gated off to get the boost in clock speed than in having all modules on but only one core active per module.

I know a lot of people here seem to be having a hard time getting their heads around that, but the reality is that the overhead from sharing is pretty low, so one thread having all of the resources is a small boost to it. Maybe in a a really cache-heavy world having all of the L2 would help. But I believe that to be a corner case and would rather have modules off to get the boost.



THANK YOU for clearing that up. i can see where the gains are coming from, re: clockspeed vs cache.

Wouldnt having one core per module also yield the same boots to clock speed though? or is a lot of the benefit lost because you still have all the FPUs and other shared components running?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Honestly, JF-AMD did not say BD production chips will be twice as fast, he only stated that the ES benchmarks are not indicative of final performance.

He clearly said:

He's under NDA, and I'm sure he likes his job. He's not going to jeopardize it and give us info he's not allowed to. As much as we all we want to know that information, let's be respectful and grateful of his time, since he's not getting paid to reply in forums. Remember, he's a server guy, not a desktop guy, he's under no obligation to even answer our questions.

I may not agree with everything he says, and even have fun with some of his quotes, but let's not disrespect him either. That's not cool.


ecnelitsep's post was deleted, but seriously. That post was just CRAP. Disrespectful and untrue.

The stepping just prior to release stepping Athlon 64 was 36% slower. These steppings we're seeing from ChipHell are even further pre-release than that, if they're real.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


I find this statement ridiculous JF.

So you say we can speculate all we want,but then ask us not to follow through

With our speculations?

Speculations always lead to "mights" "coulds" "possibles" "likelys" "Good chance"

Thats what Speculating is!!!

Even the stuff AMD has released like slides,architecture info with in this thread

Can only be speculated on by us,and we will still end up with a bunch of "mights"

This thread + AMD's delays will always equal Pure Speculation with no real facts


He's saying that we *can* speculate as long as it's *clearly* defined as speculation, but that people who think engineering samples represent the final product are simply flat-out wrong.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


AMD releases NO performance info, just delays, no wonder people don't know what to expect

its 4-6-8 core, thats all thats known


No, way more is known. WAY more. Maybe if you bothered to read about the architecture... but NOOO, the only details to you are clock speeds and benchmark scores

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


why did JF-AMD start this blog, what real info is given


A lot of architectural details

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I fully understand AMD's point of view regarding details of the launch. I believe it has to do a lot with the competition. With both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge release also not far away, revealing of details may allow the competitor to change schedules in favour of being able to better compete with the FX-Series processor. This may be the first time for a long time that AMD has released a processor that is able to compete (in the high end segment, particularly high end gaming segment). Companies must be sensitive with details revealed at this point.


I completely agree. I've suspected this was one of the main reasons from the start... that and they don't want another Barcelona-type incident.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*

I have also cleaned up the thread. Again, the OCN staff will not hesitate to take action when it is necessary. I don't think ecnelitsep will be bothering us again.










Yay!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


I understand that,but i'm sure that there are a few AMD loyalist in this thread

who stop the FUD,and set the uninformed straight,So you really dont need to.

And the ones who turn speculation into fact,well you cant help these types.

Even if AMD released an actual Benchmark they will find something wrong

and complain because thats just what they do









I know it must be hard to tune into this thread and read the BS and not

respond,but it seems every other week you post this same sort of statement

and it does no good.if you really want it to stop,talk to your boss's about

a back up launch program when delays happen to calm the masses.


The most ridiculous speculation, and pretty much ALL the speculation that is stated as fact, is coming from Intel fanboys. Ok, maybe a smaller portion of it comes from Seronx, but doesn't he at least say "probably" and "likely" and "should" and other words like that in his posts instead of outright stating things as fact?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I think a key misconception about the FX series is architecture. Because many don't know how it works, people are confused as to why an 8 core is being priced at $300. People have been utterly convinced that this will be another regular CPU. They don't know about the turbo core boosts, nor do they know about the module-based architecture, which makes the pricing of 8 core at $300 entirely possible, as well as under 100W TDP full load for all 8 cores.

One might care to notice that while AMD has not released clock speeds or such details about the FX, they have talked significantly about and have revealed so many details about how the new architecture actually works, in a way that benefits both them as a company, GF as the fab, and us as the consumer.


Very, very true.

Seriously, people, if you want to comment on Bulldozer, first try to interpret what we actually know at this point.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The most ridiculous speculation, and pretty much ALL the speculation that is stated as fact, is coming from Intel fanboys. Ok, maybe a smaller portion of it comes from Seronx, but doesn't he at least say "probably" and "likely" and "should" and other words like that in his posts instead of outright stating things as fact?

Seriously, people, if you want to comment on Bulldozer, first try to interpret what we actually know at this point.


r u sure?







You've been known to come across as factual, based on speculation too.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The way things are going though I think it's _possible_ that Bulldozer will break the overclocking world record of 8.21GHz. Of course this means little; Phenom II has hit 7385MHz under LN2 but almost never ever hits 4.7GHz on air.


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


r u sure?







You've been known to come across as factual, based on speculation too.







Quote:

Quote:



Originally Posted by Usario View Post
The way things are going though I* think* it's possible that Bulldozer will break the overclocking world record of 8.21GHz. *Of course this means little*; Phenom II has hit 7385MHz under LN2 but almost never ever hits 4.7GHz on air.




I bolded the important parts.


----------



## jck




----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


THANK YOU for clearing that up. i can see where the gains are coming from, re: clockspeed vs cache.

Wouldnt having one core per module also yield the same boots to clock speed though? or is a lot of the benefit lost because you still have all the FPUs and other shared components running?


If you had one core it would not be a module. And the answer is "not necessarily."


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


ALL BENCHMARKS NOT PROVIDED BY AMD AND SHOWN PRIOR TO LAUNCH HAVE A VERY HIGH PROBABILITY OF BEING WRONG.

Period.

Why does everyone continue to fight over these things?

There is a reason that you release benchmarks at launch and you don't put them out earlier.

You can speculate all you want, but please, please, please stop indicating that anything prior to launch *might* be representative.


I got in flame wars trying to say the same thing. Seems some did not understand the meaning of _wait_.
Also, what did I miss? Seems there was allot of drama here lately (again).


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


r u sure?







You've been known to come across as factual, based on speculation too.











Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


I bolded the important parts.


You forgot "possibly".

And how in my next post I explicitly said, in bolded letters, that "*I state nothing as fact.*"


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


There are 2 boost states, one with all modules on and one with half of the modules all.

Inside of a module, all of the components are either on or off. You don't gate off only one core.

You *generally* get better performance by having half of the modules gated off to get the boost in clock speed than in having all modules on but only one core active per module.

I know a lot of people here seem to be having a hard time getting their heads around that, but the reality is that the overhead from sharing is pretty low, so one thread having all of the resources is a small boost to it. Maybe in a a really cache-heavy world having all of the L2 would help. But I believe that to be a corner case and would rather have modules off to get the boost.


It makes sense if you're running stock, but if you're overclocking chances are turbo is disabled (unless you oc with turbo).

Factory design for performance is shattered utterly by overclocking. Thats why we're here, it's what we do.

To everyone else:

Why is it that negative speculation = trolls and fanboys, but positive speculation is quoted and +1'ed? Nobody has the answer, there is no rational thought process that would lead anyone to the conclusion I've listed prior to this sentence. So why is it so commonplace?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It makes sense if you're running stock, but if you're overclocking chances are turbo is disabled (unless you oc with turbo).

Factory design for performance is shattered utterly by overclocking. Thats why we're here, it's what we do.


Why not overclock with the half core turbo enabled? We don't know yet if that would cause instability at high clock speeds...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Why not overclock with the half core turbo enabled? We don't know yet if that would cause instability at high clock speeds...


What?

Are you saying bulldozer will somehow be stable turbo'ing to a curtain frequency, but would be unable to run it 24/7?

I run with C1 and EIST on, so my chip under volts and downclocks, so I can see a point in having turbo on, but at least for Intel turbo mode is broken due to windows thread sharing, I could set four different turbos, but I'd never see half of them in actual usage.

My 555 and 965 both clocked similar, my 965 was a better chip, but having two less cores on my 555 only afforded me less heat, it didn't improve clocking.

1.5v on the cpu is not for the entire cpu last I checked, disabling cores won't increase overclock potential directly unless other factors are at play, such as PSU problems, vrm limiations, weaker cores within the same chip, or heat related issues.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What?

Are you saying bulldozer will somehow be stable turbo'ing to a curtain frequency, but would be unable to run it 24/7?

I run with C1 and EIST on, so my chip under volts and downclocks, so I can see a point in having turbo on, but at least for Intel turbo mode is broken due to windows thread sharing, I could set four different turbos, but I'd never see half of them in actual usage.

My 555 and 965 both clocked similar, my 965 was a better chip, but having two less cores on my 555 only afforded me less heat, it didn't improve clocking.

1.5v on the cpu is not for the entire cpu last I checked, disabling cores won't increase overclock potential directly unless other factors are at play, such as PSU problems, vrm limiations, weaker cores within the same chip, or heat related issues.


Disabling cores usually does increase overclocking potential with the same voltages because of heat output.

I reached 4.3GHz with 1.31v on my 955 with one core enabled (unstable of course). It takes around 1.38v for similar results with all cores enabled.

To reach the 4.66GHz in my sig, I had to underclock three cores to 800MHz and then boost core #0, the one CPU-Z lists. This is at 1.58v. At 1.61v with all cores at full speed, I couldn't get past 4.64GHz.


----------



## Fr0sty

amd found their new ceo









http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases...2011aug25.aspx


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14713626*
> amd found their new ceo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-names-rory-read-ceo-2011aug25.aspx


Good find. He sounds promising.

*About Rory P. Read*

Rory P. Read spent five years at Lenovo. During his tenure as President and COO, Read led a global business turnaround that resulted in record market share gains, strong revenue growth and significant improvements in operating income.

Prior to Lenovo, Read spent 23 years at IBM where he held a broad range of management positions. While at IBM, Read consistently grew revenues while significantly improving the operating profitability for the groups under his management:

As Managing Partner for IBM's Business Consulting Services Division, Read led the division through a turnaround that significantly improved gross margins, drove new customer acquisitions and generated double digit revenue growth and operating profitability.

As Executive Vice President of Global Business Transformation, IBM Global Services, Read was responsible for worldwide leadership of IT initiatives and Business Transformation across the $45 billion business.

As General Manager, Business Consulting Services, Asia Pacific, Read was the senior executive leader for IBM's $3.5 billion consulting services organization in Asia Pacific. He was responsible for driving significant customer and revenue growth while also improving gross margin and successfully leading the integration of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

Read graduated Magna Cum Laude with a bachelor's degree in Information Systems from Hartwick College.


----------



## xd_1771

Turbo core allows for more clock speed for fewer cores, with lower heat and power consumption. OCing via turbo means you don't have to spend as much for bigger aftermarket cooling, while still getting performance you want when gaming. Those who need 8 cores like me still have the option to regularly OC them all, but with more heat and cooling required.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14713719*
> Turbo core allows for more clock speed for fewer cores, with lower heat and power consumption. OCing via turbo means you don't have to spend as much for bigger aftermarket cooling, while still getting performance you want when gaming. Those who need 8 cores like me still have the option to regularly OC them all, but with more heat and cooling required.


Yeah I'm bias towards turbo and HT, I don't really care for either which is probably why I don't put much stock in them.

You'd need turbo voltage offset for it to be practical as a heat/power saving feature, is that common on lower end AMD boards?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14713626*
> amd found their new ceo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-names-rory-read-ceo-2011aug25.aspx


[Wishful Thinking]

Maybe AMD was waiting to find a new CEO before launching Bulldozer. Now that they have found one the launch must be eminent.

[/Wishful Thinking]


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14714327*
> [Wishful Thinking]
> 
> Maybe AMD was waiting to find a new CEO before launching Bulldozer. Now that they have found one the launch must be eminent.
> 
> [/Wishful Thinking]


I give them six days. Master Nostraseronx must be correct.


----------



## Fooliobass

I've been lurking this thread for a while now. I am tired of the bickering, but love to see new tidbits of info come out when they do. I do want to thank JF for everything he does for this thread, and to ignore the haters and problem starters... anyway
Simple question.
Will BD continue the history that AMD has used and have a 200 base Bus speed?
Will standard ram ratios continue? 1333, 1600, 1866...
I have heard that 1866 will be the base, will old slower ram still work...ie my 1600?
Will BD support more or faster sata ports? (if they are even CPU dependant)

I am in lust with the idea of 8 cores to beat up on. Even if gaming cannot use them, you could be encoding on 4 and gaming on 4. combine that with 32GB of ram its like having 2 of todays machines (-:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fooliobass;14715390*
> I've been lurking this thread for a while now. I am tired of the bickering, but love to see new tidbits of info come out when they do. I do want to thank JF for everything he does for this thread, and to ignore the haters and problem starters... anyway
> Simple question.
> Will BD continue the history that AMD has used and have a 200 base Bus speed?
> Will standard ram ratios continue? 1333, 1600, 1866...
> I have heard that 1866 will be the base, will old slower ram still work...ie my 1600?
> Will BD support more or faster sata ports? (if they are even CPU dependant)
> 
> I am in lust with the idea of 8 cores to beat up on. Even if gaming cannot use them, you could be encoding on 4 and gaming on 4. combine that with 32GB of ram its like having 2 of todays machines (-:


1) Almost certainly
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) SATA is southbridge dependent, and faster SATA only comes when a faster SATA specification is released (ie SATA, 2003 -> SATA II, 2004... or was it 2005? -> SATA III, 2009)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14715556*
> 4) SATA is southbridge dependent, and faster SATA only comes when a faster SATA specification is released (ie SATA, 2003 -> SATA II, 2004... or was it 2005? -> SATA III, 2009)


The controller also matters, SATA III SSDs aren't as fast on 1366 as they are on 1155.


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716013*
> The controller also matters, SATA III SSDs aren't as fast on 1366 as they are on 1155.


"1366" and "1155" - what are these?


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;14716195*
> "1366" and "1155" - what are these?


Intel sockets... 1366 is the last generation high end socket. 1155 I do believe is what is used for current Sandybridge CPUs.

And going into more depth, Its not these sockets that Balla was refering to but the southbridge used on the boards with those sockets.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716013*
> The controller also matters, SATA III SSDs aren't as fast on 1366 as they are on 1155.


Isn't that because 1366's SB doesn't natively support SATA III, so a separate controller has to be used which results in higher latency?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14716322*
> Isn't that because 1366's SB doesn't natively support SATA III, so a separate controller has to be used which results in higher latency?


Could be, this is my first Intel rig since I replaced a Pent 4 with a 3400+.

Maybe it's the fact that it's supported by the CPU that makes it so much faster, I do know SB only supports 2 ports natively, the other two on my board come from a chip on the board.

I should probably look into it before foot to mouth happens.

Edit:
Quote:


> Pretty much all H67/P67 and future motherboards will have two SATA 6G controllers, one is 6G native from the Intel chipset (two ports), and optionally you can connect (if the motherboard has it) a Sata 6G controller from Marvel. That last controller does not have the processing power for such high performing products like the one tested today


Seems the controller for on the chipset, not within the chip itself... Correct?

Do current Bulldozer ready AM3+ boards have the same function/improved speeds?

Also while we're talking about Sata and stuff, does Bulldozer have native support for USB 3.0? I'll assume that is also controlled by the south bridge, right?

Edit2: The difference seems to be quite large, at lest in these two tests:


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Amd!! Hurrrryyy pleaseee! I cant wait any longer! MY 6950's are tired of being bottlenecked!


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716578*
> Also while we're talking about Sata and stuff, does Bulldozer have native support for USB 3.0? I'll assume that is also controlled by the south bridge, right?


Does not look like it...
Quote:


> SB850 was ahead of its time with SATA 6Gbps support, unfortunately SB950 doesn't continue that trend and there's no USB 3.0 support.
> 
> Read more: http://vr-zone.com/articles/asus-crosshair-v-formula-review/12668.html#ixzz1W6uzdjvH


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Meh, what about PCIe 3.0?

That comes off the CPU directly, but I guess it needs 3.0 compliment switches, do the current AM3+ boards support PCIe 3.0, and does Bulldozer too?


----------



## Gen

The PCI-E Lanes is still on the 990FX northbridge chip on the motherboard, and still PCI-E 2. IIRC, 990FX and SB950 was rebrands of 890FX and SB850 with the exception of a couple BD specific features on 990FX.

Edit: 990FX and SB950 may have been die shrunk but I'm not 100% sure of this and doubt it.


----------



## pman26

ok. So when's this gonna be released?

Is it delayed indefinitely ?









Will AMD send samples to journalists beforehand so that we have reviews on day 1 ?


----------



## Swiftdeathz

pman26, that's usually how it works. Review sites get the chips in advance so that the reviews can be published when the announcement for the chips are made. The reviewers of course would be under strict NDA and won't publish results until AMD says it's ok, which usually coincides with announcements that the chips will be available for purchase soon.


----------



## hazarada

officially there is 5 days left on their release time frame, i got a feeling tho, at the rate they are going lga2011 is gonna beat them to the punch - a platform that will last more then half a year and probably more multi thread capable too, who's going to want BD then?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14717959*
> officially there is 5 days left on their release time frame, i got a feeling tho, at the rate they are going lga2011 is gonna beat them to the punch - a platform that will last more then half a year and probably more multi thread capable too, who's going to want BD then?


People with budgets that don't allow for $600 to $1000 chips?


----------



## randrewm97

i was at microcenter the other day and one of the employs told me that it will be released towards the end of october. i tried to see if this was true by googles, but i couldnt find that info anywhere... true?

also, would the d14 air cooler be able to cool the BD? i heard its coming with a water cooler much like the h50, just with amd stickers on it. again, heard that from the man at microcenter

im buying all the pc parts... except for the mobo and obviously BD now, so that when it gets released, all i will haft to do is buy the chip and mobo


----------



## Fr0sty

i love how these random shops know whats the release date but we dont know anything officially


----------



## randrewm97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14718189*
> i love how these random shops know whats the release date but we dont know anything officially


microcenter is a pretty big store. theyre much like rogers for the east coast. but yeah, im just hoping he is right


----------



## Fr0sty

end of october would make it Q4 .... wich would mean another delay ...

so seriously i doubt that a single microcenter location could know when is the release date and we dont know this

i mean how could someone not post this as news on a site with some photo's of some internal amd slides as proof???

its all rumors i guess


----------



## BigCactus

Does JF know if bulldozer will be supported on matx boards? Because there are no matx motherboards for bulldozer yet.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14718289*
> Does JF know if bulldozer will be supported on matx boards? Because there are no matx motherboards for bulldozer yet.


he wouldnt know he isnt into the client market

better ask amd's partner board manufacturer if they have any such solution that would fit the bill

asus has a rep iirc on ocn


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14718289*
> Does JF know if bulldozer will be supported on matx boards? Because there are no matx motherboards for bulldozer yet.


I think the lack of matx is just due to Mobo Mfg's not putting alot of time into releasing an matx for a chip that has not been released yet, just my opinion.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716578*
> Also while we're talking about Sata and stuff, does Bulldozer have native support for USB 3.0? I'll assume that is also controlled by the south bridge, right?


No, USB 3.0 on 990FX / SB950 boards are via 3rd party controller. Reference the specs from my Crosshair V Formula review.
Quote:


> *ASMedia® USB 3.0 controller* : 6 x USB 3.0 port(s) (4 at back panel, blue, 2 at mid-board)
> *AMD SB950 controller* : 12 x USB 2.0 port(s) (8 at back panel, black+white, 4 at mid-board)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pman26;14717410*
> Will AMD send samples to journalists beforehand so that we have reviews on day 1 ?


As far as we know, yes. Can't make any promises until it's in-hand (it's not yet), but they always do so I wouldn't expect BD to be any different.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14718330*
> I think the lack of matx is just due to Mobo Mfg's not putting alot of time into releasing an matx for a chip that has not been released yet, just my opinion.


could be just that bulldozer isnt released yet and the matx boards will appear right after its release

anyway .. why would anyone want an matx bulldozer mobo anyway

Llano seems more appropriate for an matx setup


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14718422*
> could be just that bulldozer isnt released yet and the matx boards will appear right after its release










yeah thats what I meant


----------



## StarDestroyer

what will be different about FMx chipset thats to repleace AM3+


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14718737*
> what will be different about FMx chipset thats to repleace AM3+


we dont know

bulldozer isnt out uyet and you expect socket difference and specs for what is suposed to follow ??


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Don't forget PAX 2011 this weekend


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14718374*
> No, USB 3.0 on 990FX / SB950 boards are via 3rd party controller. Reference the specs from my Crosshair V Formula review.


Thanks, I didn't see any SATA III speed tests using a high end SSD though, have you done any of those?

Also at this point Bulldozer is reaching the point where 7xxx series PCIe 3.0 cards are going to come out just about on top of it, but AMD won't have native support for them?

Or are they going to release a new chipset for PCIe 3.0, if so I feel a bit sorry for the early AM3+ adopters.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14719124*
> Thanks, I didn't see any SATA III speed tests using a high end SSD though, have you done any of those?
> 
> Also at this point Bulldozer is reaching the point where 7xxx series PCIe 3.0 cards are going to come out just about on top of it, but AMD won't have native support for them?
> 
> Or are they going to release a new chipset for PCIe 3.0, if so I feel a bit sorry for the early AM3+ adopters.


What are you talking about? PCIE 3 has nothing to do with BD.


----------



## Nocturin

Something new, is it legit?

Source ZDnet
Quote:


> Within the next week or so AMD should begin shipping its FX Series processors, its first high-end chip based on an entirely new core design since the introduction of the Family 10h, better-known as Barcelona, almost exactly four years ago. At the annual Hot Chips semiconductor conference last week, AMD provided some new details on the innovative Bulldozer architecture behind both the FX Series for desktops and new Opteron server processors.


edit: haven't had a chance to read the article yet, linked from Bit-tech.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14718978*
> Don't forget PAX 2011 this weekend


Oh not seeing AMD on the list of exhibitors for the event.









Edit: not showing in the list of sponsors either


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716578*
> Could be, this is my first Intel rig since I replaced a Pent 4 with a 3400+.
> 
> Maybe it's the fact that it's supported by the CPU that makes it so much faster, I do know SB only supports 2 ports natively, the other two on my board come from a chip on the board.
> 
> I should probably look into it before foot to mouth happens.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Seems the controller for on the chipset, not within the chip itself... Correct?


Yeah.
Quote:


> Do current Bulldozer ready AM3+ boards have the same function/improved speeds?


Yes, because the SB controls SATA
Quote:


> Also while we're talking about Sata and stuff, does Bulldozer have native support for USB 3.0? I'll assume that is also controlled by the south bridge, right?


No, but Llano does. So we can assume BD-E will because they'll both be on FM2.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14716666*
> Meh, what about PCIe 3.0?
> 
> That comes off the CPU directly, but I guess it needs 3.0 compliment switches, do the current AM3+ boards support PCIe 3.0, and does Bulldozer too?


On AMD PCI-E is controlled by the northbridge.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *randrewm97;14718165*
> i was at microcenter the other day and one of the employs told me that it will be released towards the end of october. i tried to see if this was true by googles, but i couldnt find that info anywhere... true?
> 
> also, would the d14 air cooler be able to cool the BD? i heard its coming with a water cooler much like the h50, just with amd stickers on it. again, heard that from the man at microcenter
> 
> im buying all the pc parts... except for the mobo and obviously BD now, so that when it gets released, all i will haft to do is buy the chip and mobo


They probably just want you to buy everything now so that they get more money from you. JF has said multiple times that one of the reasons why we're not hearing much about BD prior to launch is if you tell a consumer a new product is coming out soon he'll say "great, I'll wait" but if you tell a server customer a new product is coming out soon they'll say "great, but we need some chips NAO" and they'll continuously buy processors before and after release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14718289*
> Does JF know if bulldozer will be supported on matx boards? Because there are no matx motherboards for bulldozer yet.


There are a few, but they don't use the 9 series chipsets.

I'm guessing more will come out after launch... maybe a Crosshair V Gene? That would be nice.


----------



## Canis-X

....are we there yet JF?


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14719124*
> Thanks, I didn't see any SATA III speed tests using a high end SSD though, have you done any of those?
> 
> Also at this point Bulldozer is reaching the point where 7xxx series PCIe 3.0 cards are going to come out just about on top of it, but AMD won't have native support for them?
> 
> Or are they going to release a new chipset for PCIe 3.0, if so I feel a bit sorry for the early AM3+ adopters.


No high-speed tests. The only SSDs I have are SATA II SF-1200 based and wouldn't tax it very much. Working on obtaining others, but right now I'm focusing on motherboard and presumably sometime soon (even we're in the dark folks) BD reviews.

As stated by Hueristic, BD has nothing to do with PCIe 3.0 as the PCIe lanes are on the northbridge, which has 32 PCIe 2.0 lanes available (16x2 / 8x4 / 16x1+8x2). 990FX didn't change PCIe functionality from the 890FX. Heck, it didn't change any, just added some BD-specific features.

I'm told the SB950 has some additional AHCI tweaks but nothing that would show up anywhere other than benchmarks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Sorry my mistake on the PCIe lanes, never really paid much attention to that aspect of things until I moved over to Intel and started reading into Ivy. They do things a bit differently on this side of the fence.

So that means there should be a new northbridge coming out in the next 5-6 months right? That is assuming AMD is going to want to launch PCIe 3.0 support with their 7xxx series cards on their latest platform.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Well, if FMx rumors/suppositions are accurate, they'll be moving to an on-chip solution with the next generation, which would do away with the northbridge altogether, lumping everything into the CPU and FCH.

I have no idea if the 7000 series will be PCIe 3.0. If that comes this year, I doubt it. PCIe 3.0 is much ado about nothing IMO. PCIe 2.0 isn't maxxed out yet (at 16x). Basing buying decisions on PCIe 3.0 functionality isn't justified at this point, it's just buying the next best thing simply to say you have the next best thing, at least IMHO.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


Well, if FMx rumors/suppositions are accurate, they'll be moving to an on-chip solution with the next generation, which would do away with the northbridge altogether, lumping everything into the CPU and FCH.

I have no idea if the 7000 series will be PCIe 3.0. If that comes this year, I doubt it. PCIe 3.0 is much ado about nothing IMO. PCIe 2.0 isn't maxxed out yet (at 16x). Basing buying decisions on PCIe 3.0 functionality isn't justified at this point, it's just buying the next best thing simply to say you have the next best thing, at least IMHO.


3.0 might be slightly beneficial for the 7990

But on other cards, there's barely a difference between 2.1 x8 and x16 (think -5 fps when you're already getting 75).


----------



## Benz

Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden and works in AMD's factory) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


O rly? Do tell!


----------



## Benz

I'm afraid I can't I'm only allowed to say what I said, I'm sorry


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I'm afraid I can't I'm only allowed to say what I said, I'm sorry










It's a good thing I'm alright with waiting. I may have my arch's mixed up, but I'm expecting something similar to the groundbreaking K8's release.

*crosses fingers and toes*


----------



## Benz

I'm with you on this one.









Also, I didn't even know the bastard was working there until today.


----------



## 855211

He keeps a good secret then


----------



## baltar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Something new, is it legit?

Source ZDnet

edit: haven't had a chance to read the article yet, linked from Bit-tech.



Most excellent news should that be true.. Really can't wait been eyeing this thread for a long time now..


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


They probably just want you to buy everything now so that they get more money from you. JF has said multiple times that one of the reasons why we're not hearing much about BD prior to launch is if you tell a consumer a new product is coming out soon he'll say "great, I'll wait" but if you tell a server customer a new product is coming out soon they'll say "great, but we need some chips NAO" and they'll continuously buy processors before and after release.


Are you referring to people buying up Phenom II now?

The only problem with that theory is that people aren't buying up PII, rather, they're buying up Sandy Bridge.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden and works in AMD's factory) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


Nice!! Thank you for that. A little ray of light goes a long way to helping me feel better about the wait!


----------



## baltar

Has there been any word as to which stores AMD will use to launch BD from? Who do they usually use as launch partners? I need to know where to wear out my F5 key at..


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


People with budgets that don't allow for $600 to $1000 chips?










considering am3+ socket owners also have to buy a new MB along with cpu on the next upgrade and x79 owners don't, the overall price difference won't be nearly big enough between the 2


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden and works in AMD's factory) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


since he told you he's already in violation so don't let his sacrifice be in vain and spill it


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are you referring to people buying up Phenom II now?

The only problem with that theory is that people aren't buying up PII, rather, they're buying up Sandy Bridge.


I am waiting for the release of BD for the price drop on the PHII's. I also know people who have bought (against my recommendation, but they are very happy) a 775 rig rather than going SB, saved them a lot of money too. SB is not the only answer out there.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


since he told you he's already in violation so don't let his sacrifice be in vain and spill it










Well, he technically is but he asked me not to tell anyone.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Well, he technically is but he asked me not to tell anyone.










And technically you didn't say anything


----------



## Benz

That's the point exactly.


----------



## Canis-X

Feel free to send me a PM though, if it's bothering you too much staying quiet. I'd hate for you to torture yourself too much.


----------



## Benz

You'll find out that I'm pretty good at keeping secrets.


----------



## Canis-X

I'm sure that you are.....just wanted to give you an easy out.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Well, he technically is but he asked me not to tell anyone.










Technically, we don't know who you are IRL, nor do we know who your cousin is.

How would anyone trace it back to your cousin?

On that note.... spill the beans.


----------



## Benz

I'm very sorry, but I can't. All I can tell you is that he saw Bulldozer benchmarks not the ES ones but the real ones. So every Bulldozer benchmark you/we saw on the internet is fake, they weren't even Bulldozer chips.

Edit: All it takes is my IP then they can easily trace him out, and they will.


----------



## ahriman

So if this is true:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Edit: All it takes is my IP then they can easily trace him out, and they will.


Then he is already screwed based on this:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


All I can tell you is that he saw Bulldozer benchmarks not the ES ones but the real ones. So every Bulldozer benchmark you/we saw on the internet is fake, they weren't even Bulldozer chips.


----------



## Benz

No, because I didn't disclose anything, the Bulldozer benchmarks still remain secret.

How can you be so callas? He has a wife, a son and a daughter, if he gets sued his life is over! I'm not taking him down!

I should never have said anything...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I should never have said anything...


Nope, you shouldn't have.


----------



## jck

I bet JF-AMD's legal department has already requested a trace of your IP and has the German authorities after you and your cousin...TRAITORS TO SECRECY!!!







j/k

I know a few guys at a couple of big review websites. If the first run has already come off, I could actually talk to someone I know whom (I am pretty sure he would have already gotten one for review purposes if they're out) might tell me what it benches like.

But:

a) I don't wanna get him fired/in trouble/put in jail/sued.
b) I kinda like the fact you guys are all jonesing for the benchmarks like I have been.









I just act cooler.







But, I'm so ready for this chip to come out.

And, I hope AMD hooks up with someone... Corsair, Antec, whoever... and offers a CPU + LCS package. That would be boss to get your CPU and liquid cooler together and ready for action.


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I should never have said anything...


I agree. Thanks for the thought but it probably would have been better if you didn't say anything.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


I agree. Thanks for the thought but it probably would have been better if you didn't say anything.


Shhhh...we're trying to talk him into telling us!!!


----------



## Benz

Yeah, that'll happen.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


... (I am pretty sure he would have already gotten one for review purposes if they're out) ...


They haven't made it to reviewers yet. FWIW.


----------



## 2010rig

Then what was the point of bringing it up in the 1st place, if you couldn't say anything?


----------



## Blackops_2

Must...see.....benchies


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Then what was the point of bringing it up in the 1st place, if you couldn't say anything?


The point was to deliver hope to everyone here, to ease your mind not having to worry about if the Bulldozer will exceed its expectations or not. Let's just say a relief.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


They haven't made it to reviewers yet. FWIW.


That we know of lol.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


That we know of lol.


I should know.









EDIT - Just for the record, I wouldn't tell you if we did have it, nor when it will release or how it performs until the NDA expired. I'm just saying as of today, definitively without equivocation, it has not arrived.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


They haven't made it to reviewers yet. FWIW.


In that case, he couldn't tell me then.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*









Must...see.....benchies


wait...til...release









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


The point was to deliver hope to everyone here, to ease your mind not having to worry about if the Bulldozer will exceed its expectations or not. Let's just say a relief.


I'll be relieved when I see actual stuff from AMD, and the reviews/benchies from like Tom's, Xbit, Anand, etc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


That we know of lol.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


I should know.









EDIT - Just for the record, I wouldn't tell you if we did have it, nor when it will release or how it performs until the NDA expired. I'm just saying as of today, definitively without equivocation, it has not arrived.


cool

EDIT: just for the record...if my professional connection told me...I wouldn't tell either


----------



## steevieweevie

I'm one of the suckers born ever minute who was waiting for a Q2 release of BD. I stopped visiting OCN in late June and came back yesterday to read up on what I've missed. This thread has degenerated into some third grade nightmare. I bet if I left and came back in October I'd see 'your a poopyhead' and 'no YOU ARE' posted here. See you later!!!


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *steevieweevie*


I'm one of the suckers born ever minute who was waiting for a Q2 release of BD. I stopped visiting OCN in late June and came back yesterday to read up on what I've missed. This thread has degenerated into some third grade nightmare. I bet if I left and came back in October I'd see 'your a poopyhead' and 'no YOU ARE' posted here. See you later!!!


No, the mods clean that stuff up.









Bye!


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


could be just that bulldozer isnt released yet and the matx boards will appear right after its release

anyway .. why would anyone want an matx bulldozer mobo anyway

Llano seems more appropriate for an matx setup


Why do people have matx sli rigs with 2600k processor?

8 cores on a matx watercooled build is epic, that's why









I already have my lanbox lite modded so both bulldozer and my gtx470 will be cooled by Antec Kuhlers....


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14723101*
> I should know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT - Just for the record, I wouldn't tell you if we did have it, nor when it will release or how it performs until the NDA expired. I'm just saying as of today, definitively without equivocation, it has not arrived.


no wonder they didnt send you a cpu you would have broken the nda just by telling us that


----------



## hokiealumnus

Um...I would break the nda by saying that, on August 26 I don't posess a cpu? You have an interesting way of interpreting an nda. I was just trying to help by informing people guessing they were in reviewers' hands that they weren't. Don't worry your brilliant little mind though, that's the last I'll post in this thread.


----------



## Swiftdeathz

I just came across this article which has some slides I had not seen yet.

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/35954/4/


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14725318*
> Um...I would break the nda by saying that, on August 26 I don't posess a cpu? You have an interesting way of interpreting an nda. I was just trying to help by informing people guessing they were in reviewers' hands that they weren't. Don't worry your brilliant little mind though, that's the last I'll post in this thread.












just because you dont have a cpu doesnt mean other reviewers dont have one


----------



## $ilent

I wish they would hurry up and release these new chips, im so sick of hearing about it now and even more tired of answering these, "Will Bulldozer do this, will it be good enough to encode that" threads...


----------



## kweechy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fooliobass;14721351*
> I am waiting for the release of BD for the price drop on the PHII's. I also know people who have bought (against my recommendation, but they are very happy) a 775 rig rather than going SB, saved them a lot of money too. SB is not the only answer out there.


Why on god's green earth would you EVER get a 775 over Sandy Bridge? To me, that's called having zero foresight.

You spend $50-100 more on Sandy and have a rig that will last YEARS longer than 775. Do the math on replacing a computer twice as often and you'll see what makes the most sense.

There's a REALLY sweet knee in the technology curve. A place where you aren't having your wallet completely emptied while you also aren't buying stuff so outdated already that it's barely worth the electricity to keep running.

That knee is where Sandy Bridge lies right now. Can you save a few bucks by going with an LGA 775? Maybe. Can you save a few bucks by getting an IBM 486 off eBay? For sure. Where do you draw the line though? You can add a few dollars to the budget for a 775 computer and get something 2-4x faster.

I would never ever recommend to anyone of any budget, getting anything other than an Intel SB rig right now. Maybe Llano if they were truly not in need of much CPU power.


----------



## 2010rig

Not sure if this got posted yet?

AMD Bulldozer to ship 'within the next week or so'
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14725925*
> Not sure if this got posted yet?
> 
> AMD Bulldozer to ship 'within the next week or so'
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


This is reporting on the ZDnet article linked earlier.


----------



## Fr0sty

90days deadline was dead on if this is true


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14725981*
> This is reporting on the ZDnet article linked earlier.


ah ok ... I haven't really checked here today.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kweechy;14725637*
> Why on god's green earth would you EVER get a 775 over Sandy Bridge? To me, that's called having zero foresight.
> 
> You spend $50-100 more on Sandy and have a rig that will last YEARS longer than 775. Do the math on replacing a computer twice as often and you'll see what makes the most sense.
> 
> There's a REALLY sweet knee in the technology curve. A place where you aren't having your wallet completely emptied while you also aren't buying stuff so outdated already that it's barely worth the electricity to keep running.
> 
> That knee is where Sandy Bridge lies right now. Can you save a few bucks by going with an LGA 775? Maybe. Can you save a few bucks by getting an IBM 486 off eBay? For sure. Where do you draw the line though? You can add a few dollars to the budget for a 775 computer and get something 2-4x faster.
> 
> I would never ever recommend to anyone of any budget, getting anything other than an Intel SB rig right now. Maybe Llano if they were truly not in need of much CPU power.


Um... low cost?







perhaps the items are used.
The desktop PCs in my house used by my family use Athlon II x2 and x4, K10 microprocessors. The media PCs use low-voltage/undervolted K8 Athlon x2 and Athlon processors - still perfect for the task, and a huge step up from the older, power-inefficient Pentium 4 processors that used to power the media PCs. Many of the items powering the PCs in my house were bought used; by doing so, I have been able to save hundreds upon hundreds of dollars. If I were to replace each of these PCs with a comparable, newer low end prebuilt PC, it would probably be superior, but the total cost of all of them combined would be well over $1000 - well over budget. Even if I custom built, some of the PCs would perform not as well at more cost. Although they were used, were the new parts worthwhile upgrades? Do they do the job well at a much lower cost? Definitely and definitely.

Obviously new platforms like AM3+, FM1, and LGA1155 aren't going to be for everyone out there. But if you want all the latest features and architectures, higher speed, better performance at lower power consumption, and other perks provided by new technologies, jump right in. AM3+ will likely suit the gamers and most especially multithreaders/encoders. Socket FM1/AMD APUs suit most everybody out there who use their computer for web browsing, some gaming and some media productivity.

*Back to Bulldozer-related discussion, please.*


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14725925*
> Not sure if this got posted yet?
> 
> AMD Bulldozer to ship 'within the next week *or so*'


I hope they don't use the term 'or so' too loosely to mean next week or next year.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;14726416*
> I hope they don't use the term 'or so' too loosely to mean next week or next year.












btw - I wonder what JF-AMD thinks of this. ( bolded part )
Quote:


> A Zambezi CPU is comprised of four 'modules', each of which - AMD claims - contains two 'cores'. However, as each core does share some resources with its partner, we're unconvinced by this terminology: a core should be an independent execution unit that can accept, process and output work.
> 
> After all, the two Bulldozer 'cores' have to share 'several components including a front-end (fetch and decode), floating-point unit, data prefetch unit.' For the record, we also refuse to refer to GPUs as having 'cores' rather than stream processors (much to Nvidia's annoyance).
> 
> *It's easier to think of a module as a CPU core which has the ability to process two threads concurrently, so we'll insist on referring to Bulldozer modules as cores.* There is way more duplication of resources in a Bulldozer core than in any other CPU core we've seen, so the boost in multi-threaded performance is likely to be very high. Intel's rival and seemingly inferior Hyper-Therading technology typically gives a performance boost of up to 30 per cent, depending on the workload.


With their logic, the 8 core BD is really a Quad Core.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14726460*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw - I wonder what JF-AMD thinks of this. ( bolded part )
> 
> With their logic, the 8 core BD is really a Quad Core.


Smells like the author was a little intel biased. I realize they are trying to dumb it down for the "masses" but it's not ok (in my eyes) to write about something without getting an accurate representation of what's it about...

... but then again, that could just be the technical writer in me.







. It's setting the expectation that the "dual core module" will only be about 30% faster in a multi-threaded situation, it's misleading.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14726518*
> Smells like the author was a little intel biased. I realize they are trying to dumb it down for the "masses" but it's not ok (in my eyes) to write about something without getting an accurate representation of what's it about...
> 
> ... but then again, that could just be the technical writer in me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's setting the expectation that the "dual core module" will only be about 30% faster in a multi-threaded situation, it's misleading.


lol? Why does anyone who questions anything with AMD automatically become bias or a fanboy?

It's really annoying, the guy even said "inferior Intel".

Btw he said HTT delivers up to 30% boosts, not AMDs design... Time to stop leveling up technical writer and focus on reader skills imo.


----------



## Futan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14726781*
> lol? Why does anyone who questions anything with AMD automatically become bias or a fanboy?
> 
> It's really annoying, the guy even said "inferior Intel".
> 
> Btw he said HTT delivers up to 30% boosts, not AMDs design... Time to stop leveling up technical writer and focus on reader skills imo.


Because passing off inaccurate information as fact is the MO of fanboys. BD module =/= core.


----------



## Quantium40

*sigh*

Arguing about things like cores. The fact is that there aren't traditional cores in bulldozer.

Calling the modules "dual core" is simplifying design so that average people can get an idea of how each module should perform in comparison to traditional cores.

This has probably been said on every page in this thread, but bulldozer modules have most of the components that two traditional cores have so it would be natural to assume that performance will be close to two cores.

Anyone arguing about how many cores bulldozer has is just kidding themselves.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Futan;14726982*
> Because passing off inaccurate information as fact is the MO of fanboys. BD module =/= core.


This

by similar logic a dual-core CPU is actually a single core that can process two threads because the HT Link/DMI/QPI/whatever, probably some cache, and the IMC are shared between all the cores


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Guys, guys.. Nobody is arguing anything, I'm just stating that him making that comment is his own personal view of it. No reason to get all worked up over it and start calling people fanboys and Intel bias.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Futan;14726982*
> Because passing off inaccurate information as fact is the MO of fanboys. BD module =/= core.


huh??

since when is a bulldozer module not the same as 2 cores ???


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14725925*
> Not sure if this got posted yet?
> 
> AMD Bulldozer to ship 'within the next week or so'
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14725981*
> This is reporting on the ZDnet article linked earlier.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14726025*
> 90days deadline was dead on if this is true


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14726030*
> ah ok ... I haven't really checked here today.


but are they just echoing that this is the last week of that 90 day period, so that means they ship next week

at least in the zdnet article, they just say "should", and they don't source it or say anything like it was confirmed


----------



## linkin93

Because they have shared resources, whereas a traditional core has its own, save for L3 cache I believe.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

So is BD dropping on Tuesday? I thought it was 60-90 days from AM3+ socket release









AMD I <3 you, but i'm starting to lose faith in you..


----------



## Fr0sty

even if they have shared ressource they still have the hardware for two real cores ... unline hyperthreading wich is 1 real core + a mechanism to feed the core more if it can feed it more ...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14727502*
> So is BD dropping on Tuesday? I thought it was 60-90 days from AM3+ socket release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD I <3 you, but i'm starting to lose faith in you..


am3+ is allready out


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14727502*
> So is BD dropping on Tuesday? I thought it was 60-90 days from AM3+ socket release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD I <3 you, but i'm starting to lose faith in you..


It was 60 - 90 days from June 1st.

So yeah if it's not out Sept. 1st they will have missed that time frame given.

On that other note, I didn't find that guy being Intel bias at all, he even said the Bulldozer design was more efficient.


----------



## xd_1771

To the mislead, the author of this thread *works for AMD*... he knows more about the processors & architecture than every single one of us.
AMD did say in a separate article somewhere (or was it a post in this thread) that the FX CPU (or was it the Opterons) will *ship for revenue* in August, no later. Behind our noses it may be on its way to retailers, right now.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14728246*
> AMD did say in a separate article somewhere (or was it a post in this thread) that the FX CPU (or was it the Opterons) will *ship for revenue* in August, no later. Behind our noses it may be on its way to retailers, right now.


Nobody listened. Go figure.


----------



## ismet

As much as I love AMD, I am beginning to doubt BD's performance over SB chips.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ismet;14728604*
> As much as I love AMD, I am beginning to doubt BD's performance over SB chips.


you doubt because of all the fake B0 leaks made by OBR???


----------



## StepanPepan

I am fascinated by naive and not very rational optimism of some people.

Also trashing one source of information the way he is trashed by some is not very clever.

Obr may be unpleasant man with strong dislike towards AMD which he very much enjoys to express, but he is not complete fool either. He is proffesional reviewer and did a lot of legit HW tests.

This remark is intended also towards xtreme systems forum, where it is not possible to register to.

So my message is:

*Is is not rational to completely deny and ignore one source of information, just because you do not like this information.*


----------



## hazarada

there is no usable information, all hes trying to do is tease people to visit his site more and its working too. so good for him getting all them bucks for suckering people, shame on everybody else for wasting their time


----------



## Arthedes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14727357*
> huh??
> 
> since when is a bulldozer module not the same as 2 cores ???


its not exactly the same. "real" cores have their onw floating point unit. one bulldozer module shares one i beleinve, but it's twice as big as a normal FPU, so one BD module should come very close to the performance of a "real" dual core, something like 90%(this is my own personal educated guess, and all we can do is educated guessing until the benchies have arrived)


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14729119*
> there is no usable information


This is the kind of statement I was talking about. There is no rational reason to completely dismiss everything you find there. As I said, he is not complete fool and has experience in HW testing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14729119*
> hes trying to do is tease people to visit his site more


He lost my respect by promising and not delivering. Even though I do not like him, he can have some correct info there.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729058*
> I am fascinated by naive and not very rational optimism of some people.
> 
> Also trashing one source of information the way he is trashed by some is not very clever.
> 
> Obr may be unpleasant man with strong dislike towards AMD which he very much enjoys to express, but he is not complete fool either. He is proffesional reviewer and did a lot of legit HW tests.
> 
> This remark is intended also towards xtreme systems forum, where it is not possible to register to.
> 
> So my message is:
> 
> *Is is not rational to completely deny and ignore one source of information, just because you do not like this information.*


OBR is that you???


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14729296*
> OBR is that you???


No, thank you!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14726460*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw - I wonder what JF-AMD thinks of this. ( bolded part )


JF-AMD thinks that they are wrong. But it wouldn't be the first time someone was wrong on the internets.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14726781*
> Btw he said HTT delivers up to 30% boosts


You forgot to add "or deliver a negative performance impact of up to 10% as well"








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Quantium40;14727201*
> The fact is that there aren't traditional cores in bulldozer.
> 
> Calling the modules "dual core" is simplifying design so that average people can get an idea of how each module should perform in comparison to traditional cores.
> 
> Anyone arguing about how many cores bulldozer has is just kidding themselves.


What, exactly, is a "traditional" core? Is it a single core? Anything outside of a single core has some degree of shared components. Remember when you had a single memory controller for the entire system, even with 8P? And then you had a single memory controller in the socket? And then a single memory controller shared by all the cores?

I would argue that the definition of "core" changes over time and people need to say "It's not like I want it to be" and not cling to the idea that there is some established "standard" for a core.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14727209*
> by similar logic a dual-core CPU is actually a single core that can process two threads because the HT Link/DMI/QPI/whatever, probably some cache, and the IMC are shared between all the cores


correct
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14727389*
> Because they have shared resources, whereas a traditional core has its own, save for L3 cache I believe.


Your argument is "its not a core because it has shared resources and a "real" core does not have shared resources...except when it does"

There is so much logic shared at the CPU level in all designs that you don't get to use the shared argument to define what is or is not a core.

A core, at its basic level, is a set of execution resources (i.e. the pipelines). The system will decide how many cores it has. The OS will tell you how many cores you have.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arthedes;14729186*
> its not exactly the same. "real" cores have their onw floating point unit. one bulldozer module shares one i beleinve, but it's twice as big as a normal FPU, so one BD module should come very close to the performance of a "real" dual core, something like 90%(this is my own personal educated guess, and all we can do is educated guessing until the benchies have arrived)


Thank you for putting "I believe" in there, at least someone is trying to argue a point by stating their opinion.

However, your opinion is wrong.

Take interlagos, it has 16 cores. It has 16 FPUs. So, by that argument, you have "real" cores, right?

Look at a dual core. It is not 100% faster than a single core. That means those two cores are not "real" cores, right?

Look at the performance of an Atom and a Xeon. Xeon is significantly faster than an Atom. So by your argument, Atom is not a "real" core, right?

What everyone here is trying to say is "this is different than what I used to think."

Just like dual core.

Just like 64-bit.

Just like an integrated memory controller.

Just like so many different things in life.

By everyone's logic, if we were only to consider the current designs, you'd have a bunch of single core processors with front side busses running 32-bit applications.

And sucking.

Embrace change, it can be good.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14729357*
> You forgot to add "or deliver a negative performance impact of up to 10% as well"


No no I never stated anything, I just pointed out what he said









I think it's clear to a lot of people here I dislike Intels HTT, it does have its uses at times and it does provide at least some performance increase in some cases while Intel retains a strong base core per clock performance.

In actuality from my time here I've discovered HTT can hurt performance by around 2-3% specifically in gaming, and it can also increase it by about ~5% if the game uses more physical cores than the cpu actually has.

The big gainers are programs like Cinebench, but even then it's more like 20% or 5% per core /w HTT for quad cores, perhaps an x6 can get that 30% you spoke of, however since they're all $600+ I never cared to look as I couldn't afford them anyways and have no personal use for the extra cores.


----------



## StepanPepan

Here are current results Obr posted so far.

I wonder if you would like to dismiss the good results too?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729058*
> So my message is:
> 
> *Is is not rational to completely deny and ignore one source of information, just because you do not like this information.*


OBR even stated himself that he FAKED THE BD Benchmarks he released:

OBR's Confession

*At the bottom of the page:*
Quote:


> Of Course, all results was FAKEs even know it, ive faked Them Well, the real numbers before NDA
> 
> Today's advice: DONT trust everything on the internet! PUNKD Were you all! Maybe this whole text with the next hoax, maybe not ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you Will see ... Who is right in October.


So of course nobody will trust anything he says after this.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729541*
> Here are current results Obr posted so far.
> 
> I wonder in you would like to dismiss the good results too?


I will dismiss ALL results. Period.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729541*
> Here are current results Obr posted so far.
> 
> I wonder in you would like to dismiss the good results too?
> 
> -snip-


Wow, fail graphs much?









A Phenom II B50 at a lower clock speed beats the Bulldozer (with a higher clock speed mind you), on almost every test? Yeah, I don't think so.....those graphs are garbage.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729058*
> I am fascinated by naive and not very rational optimism of some people.
> 
> Also trashing one source of information the way he is trashed by some is not very clever.
> 
> Obr may be unpleasant man with strong dislike towards AMD which he very much enjoys to express, but he is not complete fool either. He is proffesional reviewer and did a lot of legit HW tests.
> 
> This remark is intended also towards xtreme systems forum, where it is not possible to register to.
> 
> So my message is:
> 
> *Is is not rational to completely deny and ignore one source of information, just because you do not like this information.*


Yes it is.

We do not like lying.

Anyone who believes OBR for a second is either a noob or a fool.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14729541*
> Here are current results Obr posted so far.
> 
> I wonder in you would like to dismiss the good results too?


Those results aren't necessarily good.

And they're still fake.

Just like the ES that supposedly scored 82000 in 3DMark Vantage.


----------



## Fooliobass

I know there are no benchmarks until launch. but... by benchmarks do we mean what the chip can do or what stock will be? 
ie Are the speeds that are listed on the bulldozer wiki accurate for stock? or do we not know yet?


----------



## Usario

Take wikipedia with a grain of salt


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

edit removed - post not related to Bulldozer I apologize


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14730206*
> wow nobody paying attention to my post were OBR made an official statement that he faked the BD benchmarks that showed up on multiple reputable sites?
> 
> The link is a Google translate of his blog.


They were obviously faked....so the statement really doesn't matter.


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14730175*
> Take wikipedia with a grain of salt


Very true, but the stats listed I have seen elsewhere. I was wondering if that is what they'll be or if that is the prevailing rumor for release.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fooliobass*


Very true, but the stats listed I have seen elsewhere. I was wondering if that is what they'll be or if that is the prevailing rumor for release.


They're probably not real; I seriously doubt the Turbo Core would be 200MHz for some models and 900MHz for others.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14729975*
> Anyone who believes OBR for a second is either a noob or a fool.


Well, you do not have to believe that the results are 100% correct or 100% wrong! This is not matter of BELIEF, but probability.

I think that the results MIGHT BE legit and that they cannot be dismissed, because there is no evidence, that they are fake.

You cannot dismiss all one person says, even he is not the kind of person you like.

I am afraid that a lot of people are putting personal feelings where they do not belong.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14729871*
> I will dismiss ALL results. Period.


Why? You (AMD, not John) published no results. You left people desperatelly waiting for the product and speculating about it for ages. You could have some problems with production, I see no problem with it, it can happen. But you could put out some results in advance, to calm people down. You did not. AMD is deadly silent. This brings suspition that the results might be not of the kind to brag about.

Since there are no results at all from AMD and some results that quite well match the predictions (results good in multithread applications and not so good in other), I dont have much reason not to find these quite probable results possibly true.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14730803*
> Well, you do not have to believe that the results are 100% correct or 100% wrong! This is not matter of BELIEF, but probability.
> 
> I think that the results MIGHT BE legit and that they cannot be dismissed, because there is no evidence, that they are fake.
> 
> You cannot dismiss all one person says, even he is not the kind of person you like.
> 
> I am afraid that a lot of people are putting personal feelings where they do not belong.
> 
> Why? You (AMD, not Jeff) published no results. You left people desperatelly waiting for the product and speculating about it for ages. You could have some problems with production, I see no problem with it, it can happen. But you could put out some results in advance, to calm people down. You did not. AMD is deadly silent. This brings suspition that the results might be not of the kind to brag about.
> 
> Since there are no results at all from AMD and some results that quite well match the predictions (results good in multithread applications and not so good in other), I dont have much reason not to find these quite probable results possibly true.


Personal feelings?

HE ADMITTED THEY WERE FAKE.

I find it curious that you registered JUST to write these posts. Obrovsky? Is that you?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14730823*
> HE ADMITTED THEY WERE FAKE.


Well, he admitted that OTHER results were fake. Not the current ones.

I understand why this could undermine credibility of Obr.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14730823*
> Obrovsky? Is that you?


I said NO once, I will have to do it again, NO!


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Well, you do not have to believe that the results are 100% correct or 100% wrong! This is not matter of BELIEF, but probability.

I think that the results MIGHT BE legit and that they cannot be dismissed, because there is no evidence, that they are fake.

You cannot dismiss all one person says, even he is not the kind of person you like.

I am afraid that a lot of people are putting personal feelings where they do not belong.

Why? You (AMD, not Jeff) published no results. You left people desperatelly waiting for the product and speculating about it for ages. You could have some problems with production, I see no problem with it, it can happen. But you could put out some results in advance, to calm people down. You did not. AMD is deadly silent. This brings suspition that the results might be not of the kind to brag about.

Since there are no results at all from AMD and some results that quite well match the predictions (results good in multithread applications and not so good in other), I dont have much reason not to find these quite probable results possibly true.



seriously? well check this out:
Yesterday, in Thailand there was a UFO invasion. Apparently the UFOs were flown by Nazis. These Nazis have been living on the dark side of the moon since the 1940's. They came back to reclaim dominance on the earth. They have a special ray gun that turns people into zombies. Be careful as, they are headed our way and should have the entire world under their control in the next 72 hours.

This story is every bit as factual as the crap OBR typed up. sure his story *sounds* more plausible, but its not any more factual. His "benchmarks" are at best random guesses.

If you put stock in anything he said, believe his admission that it was fake.


----------



## kweechy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Well, he admitted that OTHER results were fake. Not the current ones.

I understand why this could undermine credibility of Obr.

I said NO once, I will have to do it again, NO!


Post fake results once; after that it has to be assumed they're all fake.

Quote:



If you swapped the numbers I would find it QUITE POSSIBLE, now I find it NOT VERY PROBABLE.


Makes absolutely no sense. If anything, Bulldozer will likely nail 2600k on multi-thread performance and be slightly slower single threaded.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kweechy*


Post fake results once; after that it has to be assumed they're all fake.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Well, you do not have to believe that the results are 100% correct or 100% wrong! This is not matter of BELIEF, but probability.

I think that the results MIGHT BE legit and that they cannot be dismissed, because there is no evidence, that they are fake.

You cannot dismiss all one person says, even he is not the kind of person you like.

I am afraid that a lot of people are putting personal feelings where they do not belong.

*Why? You (AMD, not Jeff) *published no results. You left people desperatelly waiting for the product and speculating about it for ages. You could have some problems with production, I see no problem with it, it can happen. But you could put out some results in advance, to calm people down. You did not. AMD is deadly silent. This brings suspition that the results might be not of the kind to brag about.

Since there are no results at all from AMD and some results that quite well match the predictions (results good in multithread applications and not so good in other), I dont have much reason not to find these quite probable results possibly true.


.....and his name is John......not Jeff.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


.....and his name is John......not Jeff.


Oh, thanks for notice, I am going to correct it. As well as other people who quoted it!


----------



## JF-AMD

We have consistently said benchmarks at launch. There are business reasons for doing this. Apparently some people have issue with this. But their selfish needs will not outweigh the business needs.

We have done demos of BD before, we will do some more. Hell, there will be a 32-core 2P server at VMworld next week. But benchmarks are a completely different thing. Looking at the VMworld demo is not going to help anyone discern performance; but, then again, performance is not the focus of the demo.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Well, he admitted that OTHER results were fake. Not the current ones.


True but OBR himself posted on his very own Blog.

Quote:



Of Course, all results was FAKEs even know it, ive faked Them Well, the real numbers before NDA

Today's advice: DONT trust everything on the internet! PUNKD Were you all! Maybe this whole text with the next hoax, maybe not ... But you Will see ... Who is right in October.


The way I read that is; don't trust everything you see, regarding BD, on the Internet until October. This statement is very true because we cannot believe any of the BD benchmarks posted on the internet until AMD officially announces it's launch. Meaning we cannot believe anything OBR says regarding performance of BD until then either.


----------



## 855211

JF I know that you are a server guy but can you tell us if the multipliers will be unlocked on all bulldozer CPU's like some of the leaks lead us to believe?


----------



## Benz

Yes they will be unlocked, for the millionth time...


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Yes they will be unlocked, for the millionth time...


I'm asking JF_AMD. I know that all the leaks say that they will be unlocked but i want to know from some one in AMD.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We have consistently said benchmarks at launch. There are business reasons for doing this. Apparently some people have issue with this. But their selfish needs will not outweigh the business needs.

We have done demos of BD before, we will do some more. Hell, there will be a 32-core 2P server at VMworld next week. But benchmarks are a completely different thing. Looking at the VMworld demo is not going to help anyone discern performance; but, then again,* performance is not the focus of the demo*.


Will the demo will be showcasing how turbocore 2.0 works? Or the ability to throttle the TDP per the user's desire?


----------



## Obakemono

I know I believe that BD will be a great CPU, and I can wait for it, but there are allot of people who think because AMD has been so tight-lipped about it that the assumptions start to fly that the CPU must not any good, this problem or that problem, ect. Add to that fact that we have faked and ES benchmarks that people use to throw more hate about AMD and then we have the Intel fan club that just loves to trash AMD any chance they get. We even have John here _That works for AMD_ to help as best he can with this blog, but yet even he is taking heat for something trivial at best.

Do we all agree that AMD needs to succeed? I do.
Do we want a CPU that meets or exceeds or expectations? I do.
Are we all here to support the community of computing? I am.
So why not take the sound advice presented here, it will all work out for the best in the end.


----------



## xd_1771

The use of the unreliable Obrovsky blog source has caused some drama and bashing in the thread. I will have to close for cleaning until further notice.

*Opened. A note on the OBR results: The writer of the blog has admitted that these results were faked. The OCN staff does not punish users for providing misleading info, but if trouble is caused out of it then action will be taken as necessary. Also, please use the report button if you have found any such trouble or breach of TOS to have occurred anywhere on the site, and move on.*


----------



## Impunity

Thanks xd.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Thank you


----------



## Canis-X

Thanks XD!!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14726781*
> lol? Why does anyone who questions anything with AMD automatically become bias or a fanboy?
> 
> It's really annoying, the guy even said "inferior Intel".
> 
> Btw he said HTT delivers up to 30% boosts, not AMDs design... Time to stop leveling up technical writer and focus on reader skills imo.


Don't you mean, "Intel's rival and seemingly inferior Hyper-Therading technology"?

That's much different than "inferior Intel".

Context clues change everything.

pm'ed.


----------



## Classical_Penguin

My plan was to purchase a Zambezi FX-8170 CPU when they are released. I might end up waiting for the next series of GPUs with PCI-e 3.0. The currently available monitors aren't worthwhile to me. IPS has ghosting issues. TN distorts an image at an angle. It would be a waste without high-quality monitors.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14731847*
> But their selfish needs will not outweigh the business needs.


you mean "their selfish needs will not outweigh our selfish needs"


----------



## Canis-X

^ Oh come on! It is not his decision. We need to stop beating him up about it.


----------



## StarDestroyer

if BD had released by now, all the benches would be would people disscuss/argue about


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14736846*
> if BD had released by now, all the benches would be would people disscuss/argue about


Intel fans would call all the positive benchmarks irrelevant; AMD fans would call all the negative benchmarks irrelevant (IMO SYSMark is the only widely-used irrelevant bench).

This has happened before. Remember Bloomfield vs Thuban?

"Rendering is irrelevant! The i7 is better for gaming!"

"No, it's gaming that's irrelevant! Rendering is the most important!"


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14736769*
> ^ Oh come on! It is not his decision. We need to stop beating him up about it.


of course not but it was his decision in that sentence to paint the other party black and his own obscured in gray while neither of their motives were exactly altruistic.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14737025*
> of course not but it was his decision in that sentence to paint the other party black and his own obscured in gray while neither of their motives were exactly altruistic.


Companies are companies. They want money. It's called market strategy.


----------



## hazarada




----------



## Usario

If it's so obvious then why do you need to discuss it?


----------



## hazarada

i didn't


----------



## LesPaulLover

So what's the word then....

Will the new AMD CPUs fit AM3+ sockets?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14737159*
> i didn't


Then why did you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LesPaulLover;14737210*
> So what's the word then....
> 
> Will the new AMD CPUs fit AM3+ sockets?


BD's original release will.

Enhanced Bulldozer, due in 2012, will not according to rumors.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14737284*
> Then why did you?
> 
> BD's original release will.
> 
> Enhanced Bulldozer, due in 2012, will not according to rumors.


A member of EOCF stated that he had found out (Idk how) that BD's refresh would be on a socket labeled 1090fx. Haven't searched it or anything. Anyone else heard the latter? I assumed BD-E would be on FM2 for some reason.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14737370*
> A member of EOCF stated that he had found out (Idk how) that BD's refresh would be on a socket labeled 1090fx. Haven't searched it or anything. Anyone else heard the latter? I assumed BD-E would be on FM2 for some reason.


1090FX sounds like the chipset name rather than the socket


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14737376*
> 1090FX sounds like the chipset name rather than the socket










Didn't think about it much lol i should've known that. I skimmed over his post probably should've taken the time to read it.


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14737376*
> 1090FX sounds like the chipset name rather than the socket


Still does bring an interesting point, new chipset along with the refreshed BDs... They may take that opportunity to start the use of a new socket. Though, from my understanding, PD was what is going to start the new socket.

2012 seems like it will be an interesting year for AMD in the high end. So far, this year has been pretty empty in that area


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14736689*
> you mean "their selfish needs will not outweigh our selfish needs"


JF-AMD is the mascot of the team ... you can't hate him ....

he's the good guy .... but he's bound by obligations from the higher ups and these higher ups have obligation towards the board and the board have obligation towards the shareholders ...

so dont hate jf-amd he didnt do anything to deserve this


----------



## vikingsteve

What would be a reasonable expected performance boost from an i5-2500k to a quad-core Bulldozer chip? Would it be fairly substantial?

I know it's speculation, but based on past results between these two companies, what would one figure to expect?


----------



## Madmanden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikingsteve;14737847*
> What would be a reasonable expected performance boost from an i5-2500k to a quad-core Bulldozer chip? Would it be fairly substantial?
> 
> I know it's speculation, but based on past results between these two companies, what would one figure to expect?


From a quad? I would not expect much of a performance boost - in fact I doubt it will even be as fast as a 2500K... It's all speculation at this point though.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikingsteve;14737847*
> What would be a reasonable expected performance boost from an i5-2500k to a quad-core Bulldozer chip? Would it be fairly substantial?
> 
> I know it's speculation, but based on past results between these two companies, what would one figure to expect?


No one knows. Benchmarks need to be released


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14731847*
> We have consistently said benchmarks at launch. There are business reasons for doing this. Apparently some people have issue with this. But their selfish needs will not outweigh the business needs


I think the "selfish needs" are mainly about people wanting to buy your product and not being able to!

"the business needs" are only and only about making money! That is the sole reason why your company exists! Unfortunatelly you caused yourselves such tremendous loss with the delay, that releasing some benchmarks (and helping you competitor to set parameters of their next product better) could hardly make it worse. BTW at this moment we are talking only about the SB 2600K successor, with which is Intel waiting after Bulldozer launch anyway.

If the bulldozer is a bit weaker than expected, not releasing benchmarks will not help you anyway. The performance will be revealed sooner or later.

AMD failed miserably in the RELATION WITH CUSTOMER, all that delays could be very well interpreted as you making fun of your customers!

*I think AMD should stop making fun of their customers and release some benchmarks, because there is no rational reason for not doing it.*


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14738164*
> I think the "selfish needs" are mainly about people wanting to buy your product and not being able to!
> 
> "the business needs" are only and only about making money! That is the sole reason why your company exists! Unfortunatelly you caused yourselves such tremendous loss with the delay, that releasing some benchmarks (and helping you competitor to set parameters of their next product better) could hardly make it worse. BTW at this moment we are talking only about the SB 2600K successor, with which is Intel waiting after Bulldozer launch anyway.
> 
> If the bulldozer is a bit weaker than expected, not releasing benchmarks will not help you anyway. The performance will be revealed sooner or later.
> 
> AMD failed miserably in the RELATION WITH CUSTOMER, all that delays could be very well interpreted as you making fun of your customers!
> 
> *I think AMD should stop making fun of their customers and release some benchmarks, because there is no rational reason for not doing it.*


Don't take it too personally what JF said; if you've been here longer you would've seen the crap he had to put up with, and times that by every board he visits. I think you'd throw a couple harsh words as well if 35,000 people are yelling "benchmark, benchmark, we want benchmarks" at you every day!

That having been said, yes, it's is frustrating, for us enthusiasts. But then you realize we represent a very small portion of the general customer base. Go to BestBuy and few people has ever heard of overclocking, much less Buldozer and FP vs Int units...

How much would you care if Nikon delayed their next 70-200mm F2.8 lens or if Goodyear delayed the next max performance summer tire? (assuming of course, you're not a photography or car enthusiasts)

I just want to point this out because as enthusiasts, we often think what matters to us, matters to the whole world.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14738513*
> Don't take it too personally what JF said; if you've been here longer you would've seen the crap he had to put up with, and times that by every board he visits. I think you'd throw a couple harsh words as well if 35,000 people are yelling "benchmark, benchmark, we want benchmarks" at you every day!


Well, and why not give them some then?
The only practical effect in terms of competition is, that Intel would know (but they would have to wait for release to be sure), if they need to to bump up frequency of 2700K by 200 or 400 MHz. They would not have time to do anything else.

In case Buldozer perfoms well, people will be relieved and would gladly wait for the release and would forgive AMD even longer delay.

In case Bulldozer does not perform so well, the disappointment would just happen sooner WITH THE SAME IMPACT as if it happened later after the release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14738513*
> That having been said, yes, it's is frustrating, for us enthusiasts. But then you realize we represent a very small portion of the general customer base.


These enthusiasts are small portion of the market in terms of buying force, but they form opinion of the general public through magazine articles, through spreading word of mouth etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14738513*
> How much would you care if Nikon delayed their next 70-200mm F2.8 lens


OH MAN Dont tell me about Nikon 70-200 f2.8 lenses!!!









Their AF-S 70-200 AF-S was blurry at the long end in comparison with AF-S 80-200, second version 70-200 cannot hold focal lenght, 200 mm slips down to 135mm in short distance!


----------



## Evil Penguin

We've waited this long.
We can wait another 2-3 weeks.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14710269*
> I fully understand AMD's point of view regarding details of the launch. I believe it has to do a lot with the competition. With both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge release also not far away, revealing of details may allow the competitor to change schedules in favour of being able to better compete with the FX-Series processor. *This may be the first time for a long time that AMD has released a processor that is able to compete (in the high end segment, particularly high end gaming segment). Companies must be sensitive with details revealed at this point.*


Perhaps this might offer an explanation most can agree with.


----------



## StarDestroyer

AMD execs don't give a hoot about OCers, they think we are a bunch of computers dorks, and that OCing is working overtime or something


----------



## xd_1771

^ Come to think of it, neither does Intel. Intel makes us pay premiums to overclock nowadays by requiring us to purchase more expensive processors (unlocked K-Series).

Point is, overclocking is not really something that's considered by companies, as it is not always safe. By overclocking chips, we are voiding our CPU warranties.

I think AMD is making up for it very well with their use of Turbo Core 2.0, boosting ALL cores with TDP headroom, as well as partial with more clock speed.


----------



## swindle

And here I sit...

Weather BD is average performer or not, i'm going to buy it. I already brought the AM3+ motherboard...

Besides, BD vs Sandy, so what? You can't possibly sit there and tell me that having 8 cores at the ready for BF3 and Frostbite 2.0 won't be an advantage? I'm sure Zambezi and Frostbite 2.0 will get along like a house on fire.

Anyway, benchmarks smeshamrks tbh. *Real world performance* is what matters.

If it operates faster then I can use it, i'm a happy man


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14729975*
> Just like the ES that supposedly scored 82000 in 3DMark Vantage.


It did.


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;14739187*
> And here I sit...
> 
> Weather BD is average performer or not, i'm going to buy it. I already brought the AM3+ motherboard...
> 
> Besides, BD vs Sandy, so what? You can't possibly sit there and tell me that having 8 cores at the ready for BF3 and Frostbite 2.0 won't be an advantage? I'm sure Zambezi and Frostbite 2.0 will get along like a house on fire.
> 
> Anyway, benchmarks smeshamrks tbh. *Real world performance* is what matters.
> 
> If it operates faster then I can use it, i'm a happy man


Why would your sole purpose for buying a CPU just be so you can run one game that might not even fully utilize 8 cores?


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14739308*
> Why would your sole purpose for buying a CPU just be so you can run one game that *might not* even fully utilize 8 cores?


Kinda invalidates your question somewhat?

I don't know. You don't know.

It wasn't my _sole_ purpose. Just my main one







I guess you could call me an optimist?

Besides, Intel need competition. I enjoy the real world performance I get from AMD chips for the price they are.


----------



## kapulek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739297*
> It did.


But you said "every Bulldozer benchmark we saw on the internet is fake". So ... which ones do you think aren't fake?







*fingers crossed*


----------



## Benz

The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.









I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


proof about the man loosing his jobs and going to prison


----------



## ChicknWafflZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14739102*
> ^ Come to think of it, neither does Intel. Intel makes us pay premiums to overclock nowadays by requiring us to purchase more expensive processors (unlocked K-Series).
> 
> Point is, overclocking is not really something that's considered by companies, as it is not always safe. By overclocking chips, we are voiding our CPU warranties.
> 
> I think AMD is making up for it very well with their use of Turbo Core 2.0, boosting ALL cores with TDP headroom, as well as partial with more clock speed.


There was actually an Intel overclocking guy at Intel LANFest in Spring. He works for Intel and they pay him to overclock new chips and see how far they can be pushed. He let us freely overclock a 2600K rig to our heart's desire.







The way he put it was like... "We don't approve of overclocking, but we have to consider it when chips are made." He actually fully explained to us how overclocking a Sandy Bridge CPU works and how to get the best overclocking results out of Sandy! I thought it was neat.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14739642*
> proof about the man loosing his jobs and going to prison


There's no proof, these benchmarks were deleted from the web and I can't find them ever since. That should be one hell of a proof.


----------



## kapulek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


Thanks. That BD chip was quad-core, right? If so that 82k score of eight-core BD seems weird. Or it is because of physx?


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14737284*
> Then why did you?


i was commenting on the way he said it not why or what he said, you either failed to read or understand that underlining the 'why' which was obvious to begin with.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14737737*
> JF-AMD is the mascot of the team ... you can't hate him ....


i don't hate him, i just dislike people trying to twist other peoples opinions by clever wording. you could say thats what PR people do in which case i dislike PR people


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739669*
> There's no proof, these benchmarks were deleted from the web and I can't find them ever since. That should be one hell of a proof.


not really ....

if you cant find court documents especially since you were implying you knew who he was it shouldnt be too hard to find and publish ...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14739763*
> i don't hate him, *i just dislike people trying to twist other peoples opinions* by clever wording. you could say thats what PR people do in which case i dislike PR people


it was your opinion ... and jf-amd cleared it up with facts .... we all prefer facts over fiction


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kapulek;14739697*
> Thanks. That BD chip was quad-core, right? If so that 82k score of eight-core BD seems weird. Or it is because of physx?


It was an FX-8110. PhysX was on yes but I'm talking about the CPU score (not everything combined) in which i7 2600K falls behind by a little less than 20.000 marks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14739767*
> not really ....
> 
> if you cant find court documents especially since you were implying you knew who he was it shouldnt be too hard to find and publish ...


My cousin works for AMD and he was the one who told me this.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739793*
> My cousin works for AMD and he was the one who told me this.


so your cousin should share the name of the said person ... and you should back up those claims with the court papers ... it shouldnt be too hard to find right


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.


Just a dreamed up blurt or







???

Just because it has vanished from net does not mean 3 years prison and job lost. Share with us where you got those DETAILS please!!


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


Nice....................









_Hopes that you don't pull an OBR down the road and pull the rug out from under us later._


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;14739369*
> Kinda invalidates your question somewhat?
> 
> I don't know. You don't know.
> 
> It wasn't my _sole_ purpose. Just my main one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you could call me an optimist?
> 
> Besides, Intel need competition. I enjoy the real world performance I get from AMD chips for the price they are.


No it doesn't invalidate my question, because it is still one game. Even if BF3 maxed out all of your eight cores (highly unlikely), it's still *one* game that you seem to mainly be basing your purchase off.... which is silly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


Sure, any good results we see are obviously real... and any unfavourable results we see are obviously fake.

*sigh*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739793*
> My cousin works for AMD and he was the one who told me this.


Didn't you hear? My next door neighbours cat is AMD's CEO, and he's saying that you're wrong.


----------



## Benz

If AMD wanted us to find out that one of their former employes was imprisoned, they might as well just post this information on their bulletin board. Geez man get serious...


----------



## kapulek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739793*
> It was an FX-8110. PhysX was on yes but I'm talking about the CPU score (not everything combined) in which i7 2600K falls behind by a little less than 20.000 marks.


You're talking about this?
http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unconfirmed-articles/1029474-wccf-amd-bulldozer-fx-8110-scores.html

CPU-Z says 3.8GHz though. I don't remember any other leaks atm.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739839*
> If AMD wanted us to find out that one of their former employes was imprisoned, they might as well just post this information on their bulletin board. Geez man get serious...


without proof its all hearsay .....

so pardon my need for factual evidence before believing such an astonishing tale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kapulek;14739855*
> You're talking about this?
> http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unconfirmed-articles/1029474-wccf-amd-bulldozer-fx-8110-scores.html
> 
> CPU-Z says 3.8GHz though. I don't remember any other leaks atm.


LOL you just debunked half of his wild claims in a couple of minutes


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kapulek;14739855*
> You're talking about this?
> http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unconfirmed-articles/1029474-wccf-amd-bulldozer-fx-8110-scores.html
> 
> CPU-Z says 3.8GHz though. I don't remember any other leaks atm.


I think it was this leak but I don't really remember.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14739871*
> without proof its all hearsay .....
> 
> so pardon my need for factual evidence before believing such an astonishing tale
> 
> LOL you just debunked half of his wild claims in a couple of minutes


I can understand that but do you even know what happens to someone who discloses classified information? Well he gets imprisoned for his trouble. Sorry but that's the way it is.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739839*
> If AMD wanted us to find out that one of their former employes was imprisoned, they might as well just post this information on their bulletin board. Geez man get serious...


So you made up the 3 year prison story then. Thanks, thats all I wanted to know


----------



## Benz

No I didn't made up anything, it's just what I've been told.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739896*
> I can understand that but do you even know what happens to someone who discloses classified information? Well he gets imprisoned for his trouble. Sorry but that's the way it is.


if you can't back up your claims you shouldnt continue down that road please

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739913*
> No I didn't made up anything, it's just what I've been told.


so its all hearsay like i mentioned afterall


----------



## Benz

So what if it's hearsay? I'm just telling you what I heard and you should respect that.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739577*
> These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.


LOL!







Are you talking about some serious industrial or international espionage?

I can imagine that somebody doing that could loose his job, but public revealing internal company information is not a crime at all! It is just matter of employee - employer relation which means the worst case is loosing a job and paying some fine, if employee had that in his contract!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739945*
> So what if it's hearsay? I'm just telling you what I heard and you should respect that.


----------



## Benz

I'm just saying what I heard ok?...


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14739945*
> So what if it's hearsay? *I'm just telling you what I heard and you should respect that*.


the difference is you make it sound like its facts ... without providing the facts to back it up ... that's the difference

+ your cousin should be kind in providing the name of said person ... if he works at amd it should be internal gossip around the coffee machine ... but i doubt its even true

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14739952*
> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about some serious industrial or international espionage?
> 
> I can imagine that somebody doing that could loose his job, but public revealing internal company information is not a crime at all! It is just matter of employee - employer relation which means the worst case is loosing a job and paying some fine, if employee had that in his contract!


as a matter of a fact its ilegal to break a contract without both parties agreement .. and i believe that people working at amd sign all kind of contract regarding the disclosing of private information of that nature ... and the consequence depends on the level of such contract breach

so dont make it sound like its impossible

its possible ... but in the case that benz make it seem to us is a bit too dreamed up i'm afraid


----------



## Benz

I wasn't interested in his name at all you know.


----------



## Naturecannon

So without sifting through all this thread.............Whats the official launch timeline?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I wasn't interested in his name at all you know.



at least show proof that your cousin works for amd as a show of faith

and mentioning that didnt get you to think that we wouldnt ask for proof of those claims right??

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


So without sifting through all this thread.............Whats the official launch timeline?


very soon


----------



## Benz

Just called him, he's name is Mark Anthony Longoria, arrested in december 2010 by the FBI.


----------



## kevink82

The date of release is drawing closer and they didnt show off anything besides a demo of dirt3 in gamescon.......... which i think its stupid consider the game doesnt even utilize half of all the cores.

Its probably not as good as hoped but hey ppl still gonna buy it anyways.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Just called him, he's name is Mark Anthony Longoria, arrested in december 2010 by the FBI.


LOL

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/06/...-trading-case/

Quote:



*Mark Anthony Longoria, a supply chain manager at Advanced Micro Devices, was charged late last year with sharing confidential information about the company's financial results*. Earlier in the day, his lawyer, Jonathan Marks, said Mr. Longoria would plead guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, one count of securities fraud and one count of making false statements. The guilty plea was announced by the United States Attorney's Office in Manhattan


financial results ... nothing like posting some benchmarks like you claimed it to be in the first place ...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


*The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.








*
I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


----------



## Benz

Oh he had a lot of other agendas on his mind, but it was also difficult to prove everything.


----------



## Fr0sty

sure.. he's going to mess with a measly benchmark leak while he's doing all those shady backroom deal about things that are far greater ...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikingsteve;14737847*
> What would be a reasonable expected performance boost from an i5-2500k to a quad-core Bulldozer chip? Would it be fairly substantial?
> 
> I know it's speculation, but based on past results between these two companies, what would one figure to expect?


This is the one thing we really have little clue about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14738164*
> I think the "selfish needs" are mainly about people wanting to buy your product and not being able to!
> 
> "the business needs" are only and only about making money! That is the sole reason why your company exists! Unfortunatelly you caused yourselves such tremendous loss with the delay, that releasing some benchmarks (and helping you competitor to set parameters of their next product better) could hardly make it worse. BTW at this moment we are talking only about the SB 2600K successor, with which is Intel waiting after Bulldozer launch anyway.
> 
> If the bulldozer is a bit weaker than expected, not releasing benchmarks will not help you anyway. The performance will be revealed sooner or later.
> 
> AMD failed miserably in the RELATION WITH CUSTOMER, all that delays could be very well interpreted as you making fun of your customers!
> 
> *I think AMD should stop making fun of their customers and release some benchmarks, because there is no rational reason for not doing it.*


This just in! Companies are trying to make money!

You think AMD delayed Bulldozer for no reason? They probably wanted to make a new stepping.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14739093*
> AMD execs don't give a hoot about OCers, they think we are a bunch of computers dorks, and that OCing is working overtime or something


Then why are most AMD chips Black Edition? Why does AMD have LN2 and LHe overclocking competitions?

Intel cares much less.


----------



## Death Saved

Another possibly fake Bench

http://www.insideris.com/amd-bulldoz...hmarks-leaked/


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


Another possibly fake Bench

http://www.insideris.com/amd-bulldoz...hmarks-leaked/


That's from February.


----------



## Benz

Yes it is, and it's not fake, it's an FX-4110.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


That's from February.


I know







.


----------



## kapulek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14740213*
> That's what I was looking for and talked about, these are not fake. This is a Quad Core Zambezi CPU.


Ouch. I wrote about quad-core BD (thinking about that leak) and then you wrote about FX-8110 scoring 20k higher score than SB.

Anyways I wonder if retail revision BDs could score a little bit higher than that particular ES.


----------



## Usario

You two could keep going on about this forever.


----------



## oicw

Alright, you're both poopyheads.

Let's breath some fresh air and wait patiently for the real deal







JF is probably banging his head going, god, is this the enthusiast base we're catering?


----------



## 2010rig

I don't even know why I bother reading this thread sometimes. *sigh*


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I don't even know why I bother reading this thread sometimes. *sigh*


Well put sir, Well put!


----------



## pale_neon

Well, personally, as long as they're improving it i don't care about the waiting (see sig).


----------



## Canis-X

In a word........*sigh*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I don't even know why I bother reading this thread sometimes. *sigh*


Pretty much what I was thinking.


----------



## Blackops_2

You Tube


----------



## -iceblade^

indeed. as an aside, any namecalling will result in warnings / infractions. if you have an argument to make, make it respectfully and don't insult anyone


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


Another possibly fake Bench

http://www.insideris.com/amd-bulldoz...hmarks-leaked/


Cpu vantage score? Whoop de doo

Real benchmarks please


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Could we please stick to the bulldozer related chat only and stop drifting away on fictional/nonfictional not related whatsoever stories about bulldozer????? THANK YOU. So anyway from what I've being reading on this thread is AMD ready to ship the new chips to the stores or is that wishful thinking...


----------



## Tweeky

Doesn't nobody know when BD will be released ?


----------



## xd_1771

I remember what leak Benz was talking about.
It was on RumorPedia and was a very early leak.

Here it is
Was that it?

EDIT: Someone revealed this particular one back on page 327 and it was indeed what Benz was looking for.

Anyways I'm taking this and your claims with a grain of salt, but raising an eyebrow nontheless.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I don't even know why I bother reading this thread sometimes. *sigh*


It's like watching a train wreck. You know what is going to happen but you just can't stop looking.............


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Doesn't nobody know when BD will be released ?


http://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...next-week.html

According to latest rumor sometime in the next couple weeks.


----------



## Silas

Any idea on the price of the 4 core BD's? I'm seriously looking at Sandy bridge but if they're super cheap i might stay amd


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


Any idea on the price of the 4 core BD's? I'm seriously looking at Sandy bridge but if they're super cheap i might stay amd


COME ON AND STOP WITH THE "If BD (Insert desire) then I'm going with Intel" CRAP! I'm sick of it and it has NO PLACE in this thread!!!


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


The date of release is drawing closer and they didnt show off anything besides a demo of dirt3 in gamescon.......... which i think its stupid consider the game doesnt even utilize half of all the cores.

Its probably not as good as hoped but hey ppl still gonna buy it anyways.


its not even a demanding game for me anyway, I'm pretty new to it but I always have +55fps with it maxed out @1080p that I noticed so far, have to start watching without crashing into a tree


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


COME ON AND STOP WITH THE "If BD (Insert desire) then I'm going with Intel" CRAP! I'm sick of it and it has NO PLACE in this thread!!!










Its a valid question. I'm shopping for sandy bridge at the moment but would change my mind if anyone had any assumption on how much the 4 core bd's would be. 180? Less?


----------



## Blackops_2

Not sure about the 4 core, but the 8 core is supposedly around 300$.

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-rules.aspx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD*

Top tier prizes: Five (5) AMD FX series eight-core processors. Approximate Retail Value: $300 USD each.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


The Engineering Sample benches that came some time ago on the net showing a 3.5GHz Bulldozer chip against a 4.0GHz 2600K Intel chip, if you remember the Bulldozer chip was clearly victorious. These benchmarks were real, the guy who leaked them lost his job and won himself a 3 year prison time.









I can say that much because they were already leaked and there's no nda agreement violation.


Folks, after sifting through pages of this, it is clear that not a single person here has probably ever had a law class.

NDAs are contracts, breaking a contract is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. You don't go to jail for civil offenses, you are liable to the other end of the contract for any damages.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


i was commenting on the way he said it not why or what he said, you either failed to read or understand that underlining the 'why' which was obvious to begin with.

i don't hate him, i just dislike people trying to twist other peoples opinions by clever wording. you could say thats what PR people do in which case i dislike PR people










I am not in PR.


----------



## xd_1771

Earlier rumours suggested $190 or so.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


It's like watching a train wreck. You know what is going to happen but you just can't stop looking.............










lol, tell me about it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Folks, after sifting through pages of this, it is clear that not a single person here has probably ever had a law class.

NDAs are contracts, breaking a contract is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. You don't go to jail for civil offenses, you are liable to the other end of the contract for any damages.


I took law in high school, does that count?









On top of that, the guy Benz mentioned Mark Anthony Longoria was charged and pleaded guilty to Insider Trading, *not for releasing benchmarks*. So right there, he's getting his "hearsay" facts all wrong, and should just stop.

Quote:



Longoria, a manager in AMD's desktop global operations group, had access to sales figures for AMD's various operational units. He also obtained from a colleague AMD's financial results, including "top line" quarterly revenue and profit margin information prior to their public announcement. Longoria shared this inside information with multiple PGR clients who, in turn, traded in AMD securities. From January 2008 to March 2010, Longoria received more than $130,000 for talking to PGR and its clients.

----

The SEC's complaint charges each of the defendants with violations of Section 10(b) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and Rule 10b-5 thereunder, and, additionally, charges Fleishman, Nguyen and Jiau with aiding and abetting others' violations of Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act and SEC Rule 10b-5. The complaint also charges Longoria and DeVore with violations of Section 17(a) of the Securities Act of 1933. The complaint seeks a final judgment permanently enjoining the defendants from future violations of the above provisions of the federal securities laws, ordering them to disgorge their ill-gotten gains plus prejudgment interest, and ordering them to pay financial penalties. The complaint also seeks to permanently prohibit Longoria, Shimoon and DeVore from acting as an officer or director of any registered public company.


Some interesting reading material.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litrel...11/lr21836.htm
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/compla.../comp21836.pdf


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


Any idea on the price of the 4 core BD's? I'm seriously looking at Sandy bridge but if they're super cheap i might stay amd


although SB slams pII in most things, it seems that in games pII is not far off at all from SB, with a few exceptions, I guess its just the way the games work for now.


----------



## Mikevs

Its been officially 87 Days Since AMD announced via slide that Bulldozer will be shipped. That means that by August 31st, which will be the 90 day mark, AMD should be shipping Bulldozer. If all goes well, we should have Bulldozer available for purchase hopefully by next week and there should be some benches which I am really exited for about Bulldozer.


----------



## Tweeky

One fact of life Bulldozer cometh and Intel taketh-a-way?


----------



## Bayinghound

Still anticipating some official benchmarks. Hope this wait has been worth it.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


On top of that, the guy Benz mentioned Mark Anthony Longoria was charged and pleaded guilty to Insider Trading, *not for releasing benchmarks*. So right there, he's getting his "hearsay" facts all wrong, and should just stop.


Yeah, I get suspicious when someone pops on the scene with lots of "insider details" and then gets basic facts wrong. Red flag.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Folks, after sifting through pages of this, it is clear that not a single person here has probably ever had a law class.

NDAs are contracts, breaking a contract is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. You don't go to jail for civil offenses, you are liable to the other end of the contract for any damages.

I am not in PR.


Hey don't get me wrong but that's what I heard, maybe there was more to it then they like to admit. They say Mark Anthony Longoria leaked information about AMDs financial state and dozen of other information including Bulldozer benchmarks, but that's also what I heard.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


On top of that, the guy Benz mentioned Mark Anthony Longoria was charged and pleaded guilty to Insider Trading, *not for releasing benchmarks*. So right there, he's getting his "hearsay" facts all wrong, and should just stop.


He wont stop, I am sure he is typing right now, trying to do the impossible and save face

Oh well, at least Benz diverted the heat off AMD for a while









Edit: Ha, I knew he was typing


----------



## Benz

I'm not saying that I'm right I'm only saying what I heard for the 20th time. What's so wrong about that?


----------



## Tweeky

Only 23 more days until the next Bulldozer delay?

You can make fun if you like but in 23 days we are all going know AMD's trueness!


----------



## Benz

Indeed we will, but as closer we get to a release date, it feels like it's taking forever.


----------



## vikingsteve

Hey, since Bulldozer will be AM3+, does that mean that the Noctua NH-D14 is incompatible with it?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vikingsteve*


Hey, since Bulldozer will be AM3+, does that mean that the Noctua NH-D14 is incompatible with it?


If NH-D14 fits on your AM3 system now it should fit on bulldozer just fine.
Because bulldozer will fit in a AM3 socket.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vikingsteve*


Hey, since Bulldozer will be AM3+, does that mean that the Noctua NH-D14 is incompatible with it?


AM3+ uses the same mounting bracket as AM3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


Any idea on the price of the 4 core BD's? I'm seriously looking at Sandy bridge but if they're super cheap i might stay amd


A very reliable source that got Llano's pricing correct (but they got the naming scheme somewhat off -- they claimed the A8 would be the 3600 series, and that there would be a 3650 and 3650P... those two are likely the 3850 and 3870 Black Edition) claims $190.


----------



## Bloitz

AM3+ mounting is the same as AM2-AM2+ and AM3 mounting. All coolers that work on those sockets work on AM3+


----------



## Benz

Why would it be incompatible? All you need is a backplate.

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=f...d=34&lng=en#12


----------



## Usario

I find it hilarious that four of us answered the same question at the same time.


----------



## Benz

Yeah hahahaha


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I find it hilarious that four of us answered the same question at the same time.










we got nothing better to do wiles waiting on BD
anybody know any good bulldozer games we could play wiles waiting on BD


----------



## Benz

No we don't for the moment.









Oh let me tell you something what happened to me today, some guy rams a car up my ass this morning by accident when I was driving a bus full of people. I didn't feel anything but when I came out of the bus, his car was half missing. The guy claimed that I wasn't on his lane and that I came out of nowhere.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vikingsteve*


Hey, since Bulldozer will be AM3+, does that mean that the Noctua NH-D14 is incompatible with it?


Yes.
(sig







)
For reference... Socket 939, 940, AM2, AM2+, AM3, AM3+ and FM1 all have the same cooler mounting.

I believe the A6-3650 and 3650P now correspond to the 3800 and 3850. The 3800 is lower speed with turbo boost and 65W TDP, the 3850 is higher speed with no turbo boost and 100W TDP.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


No we don't for the moment.









Oh let me tell you something what happened to me today, some guy rams a car up my ass this morning by accident when I was driving a bus full of people. I didn't feel anything but when I came out of the bus, his car was half missing. The guy claimed that I wasn't on his lane and that I came out of nowhere.










i thought you were going to say bulldozer and bulldozer land
i thought i go over to SB and watch and see if the BD's are coming yet
they got to come across SB first thats why there is so long a delay
it would be nice if we had some new BD info. to discuss
has anyone heard any good BD rumors lately
time passes so slowly under the AMD temple


----------



## Benz

Same diff, that's how you know nothing can touch Bulldozer.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yeah, I get suspicious when someone pops on the scene with lots of "insider details" and then gets basic facts wrong. Red flag.


I need to learn when to leave red flags alone


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14739952*
> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about some serious industrial or international espionage?
> 
> I can imagine that somebody doing that could loose his job, but public revealing internal company information is not a crime at all! It is just matter of employee - employer relation which means the worst case is loosing a job and paying some fine, if employee had that in his contract!


Not necessarily in some countries industrial espionage is a crimminal offense. Yes, violation of a NDA does not constitute a prison term but industrial espionage may. If it was leaked from one of the pacific rim countries it is taken very seriously.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14740057*
> Just called him, he's name is Mark Anthony Longoria, arrested in december 2010 by the FBI.


He was arrested for stock manipulation/ insider trading. It could make sense as a release of very good information could move the stock price. My understanding of this case is that it is related to a network of individuals including a hedge fund manager that used consultants to obtain non disclosed information between themselves and took stock positions accordingly.


----------



## Classical_Penguin

I'll wait for them to release the chips before believing supposed factual data.

*Intel*














*AMD* _The fight continues. lol_


----------



## Schmuckley

i'm thinking it's a good time to buy amd stock


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14742750*
> A very reliable source that got Llano's pricing correct (but they got the naming scheme somewhat off -- they claimed the A8 would be the 3600 series, and that there would be a 3650 and 3650P... those two are likely the 3850 and 3870 Black Edition) claims $190.


Thank you. Hopefully it'll compare nicely to a 2500K at that price


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14743086*
> I believe the A6-3650 and 3650P now correspond to the 3800 and 3850. The 3800 is lower speed with turbo boost and 65W TDP, the 3850 is higher speed with no turbo boost and 100W TDP.


Maybe, but they listed the 3650 as $150 and the 3650P as $170.

When it first came out, most stores listed the 3850 as $150 (now it's down to $140).


----------



## Electroneng

Looking to replace my I7-930 with this. If it is faster then this, it is a Win-Win in my book!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;14744050*
> Looking to replace my I7-930 with this. If it is faster then this, it is a Win-Win in my book!


All it needs to be for you then is faster than Thuban...


----------



## Impunity

wow, i logged on today to see 18 pages of unread BD news. i was all







perhaps some more details hit the web. so i'm reading







and reading







and reading







and reading







and reading







and now here i am.









I wonder why JF even reads this stuff sometimes.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14744238*
> wow, i logged on today to see 18 pages of unread BD news. i was all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps some more details hit the web. so i'm reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now here i am.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why JF even reads this stuff sometimes.


Truth + hilarity = some weird mixed form of humor and truth that is even funnier and even better states the point, and no one can understand quite well why.

I imagine JF gets very frustrated by the enthusiast community sometimes... I applaud him for putting up with it.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;14739187*
> And here I sit...
> 
> Weather BD is average performer or not, i'm going to buy it. I already brought the AM3+ motherboard...
> 
> Besides, BD vs Sandy, so what? You can't possibly sit there and tell me that having 8 cores at the ready for BF3 and Frostbite 2.0 won't be an advantage? I'm sure Zambezi and Frostbite 2.0 will get along like a house on fire.
> 
> Anyway, benchmarks smeshamrks tbh. *Real world performance* is what matters.
> 
> If it operates faster then I can use it, i'm a happy man


(Slightly off topic here but still tangentially relevant)

FWIW, IIRC Frostbite 2 will use up to 16 threads (i cant find a source but i *know* i've seen it in a slide presentation). An 8 Core proc will be quite happy with it.

One of the focuses of DX11 is better scaling for multi-core CPUs(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX#DirectX_11). and this portion of DX backwards compatible with DX9/10/10.1 and is being relied on pretty heavily in Frostbite 2. This slide presentation alludes to that fact (http://publications.dice.se/attachments/GDC11_DX11inBF3_Public.pdf).

Heres a rough benchmark that was taken from the alpha using empty servers. Obviously a poorly controlled situation, but its enough to show that the Frostbite 2 engine is definitely optimized for multi core CPU's








http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2182821

Its worth noting that HT did not appear to be very useful on the low end where the E8400 outperforms the i3, or on the high end where the x6 doesnt show a 20% deficiency over an i7 with 8 threads. At this point its unclear if there was just some additional optimizing to be done or if theres something about the way the engine works that prefers physical resources over virtual ones. My guess is the latter since, as mentioned earlier DX11 is likely offloading a lot of work on the CPU and i wouldnt be surprised if that offload doesnt hyper-thread well/at all. Ultimately, just like BD we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I hope to come on OCN Tuesday and see some good news


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14744530*
> I hope to come on OCN Tuesday and see some good news


Tuesday is the last day before BD is delayed _again_.
I think AMD should paper launch at least on that day.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14744985*
> The 2nd of next month will also be date when this thread was created a year ago.
> Who would have thought it would take this long to release the damn thing.


Oh Wow that is a long time.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14744484*
> Its worth noting that HT did not appear to be very useful on the low end where the E8400 outperforms the i3, or on the high end where the x6 doesnt show a 20% deficiency over an i7 with 8 threads. At this point its unclear if there was just some additional optimizing to be done or if theres something about the way the engine works that prefers physical resources over virtual ones. My guess is the latter since, as mentioned earlier DX11 is likely offloading a lot of work on the CPU and i wouldnt be surprised if that offload doesnt hyper-thread well/at all. Ultimately, just like BD we'll have to wait and see.


I wonder what the difference would be if they were all clocked at 3.3.

The 930 is running at 2.8, while the 1090T is running at 3.3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14744985*
> Tuesday is the last day before BD is delayed _again_.
> I think AMD should paper launch at least on that day.
> 
> *The 2nd of next week* will also be date when this thread was created a year ago.
> Who would have thought it would take this long to release the damn thing.


08-02-10 = August 2nd, 2010.

In other words, we're well past a year now.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14745204*
> 08-02-10 = August 2nd, 2010.
> 
> In other words, we're well past a year now.


Just noticed that haha.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14745204*
> I wonder what the difference would be if they were all clocked at 3.3.
> 
> The 930 is running at 2.8, while the 1090T is running at 3.3.


Thats an interesting observation, i hadnt noticed. Then again, looking at the i5 makes me wonder what the rest of that hardware looked like. That graph is little better than the BD speculation we've seen, i dont think we can discern much more from it than the fact that BF3 will love will love using threads.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14744985*
> Tuesday is the last day before BD is delayed _again_.
> I think AMD should paper launch at least on that day.


that would be nice


----------



## Naturecannon

Way back time machine...........or is it??








Quote:


> 12/20/2007
> 
> BD is a mess right now, and it is delayed.
> 
> Source


Read Source: See the "similar" excuse used both in 2007 and June 2011??


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14746681*
> Way back time machine...........or is it??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read Source: See the "similar" excuse used both in 2007 and June 2011??


The excuse to launch Llano first?


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14746725*
> The excuse to launch Llano first?


Quote:


> The biggest crunch is that both Fusion/Swift and Bulldozer were scheduled to come out around the same time, BD was set to tape out next September, and Swift around then as well.


Surely they wouldn't make the same mistake twice and with the same product, oh wait, what did AMD say June 1st









Edit: I know its not an exact circumstance but similar.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14744238*
> wow, i logged on today to see 18 pages of unread BD news. i was all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps some more details hit the web. so i'm reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now here i am.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why JF even reads this stuff sometimes.


This is probably the best post on this thread thus far. 100% true.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14745285*
> Thats an interesting observation, i hadnt noticed. Then again, looking at the i5 makes me wonder what the rest of that hardware looked like. That graph is little better than the BD speculation we've seen, i dont think we can discern much more from it than the fact that BF3 will love will love using threads.


I don't think you can take much from it. An i5-760 is beating a 1100T at lower clocks, I'll wait for the game to actually come out on that one.

Cryengine can use eight cores, but Crysis 2 doesn't... So on and so forth.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14747035*
> Cryengine can use eight cores, but Crysis 2 doesn't... So on and so forth.


crysis 2 is a console port, and the dx11 patch is a joke


----------



## gplnpsb

I'm not at liberty to say where I got this image, nor do I have a chip in hand, but I thought this image would be of interest to this thread.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14747117*
> I'm not at liberty to say where I got this image, nor do I have a chip in hand, but I thought this image would be of interest to this thread.


And this proves what exactly? That they exist?

I sure hope so, since their 60-90 day deadline expires in 3 days.









You got something more interesting to share? *cough* benchmarks *cough*


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14747117*
> I'm not at liberty to say where I got this image, nor do I have a chip in hand, but I thought this image would be of interest to this thread.


Why does CPU-Z not match the same model number CPU as CPUID? One is FX-8110, another is FX-8150

Fake much?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14747081*
> crysis 2 is a console port, and the dx11 patch is a joke


Pretty sure you missed his point. I'm too tired to look into it and clarify.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14747237*
> Why does CPU-Z not match the same model number CPU as CPUID? One is FX-8110, another is FX-8150
> 
> Fake much?


Good catch. Could be CPU-Z reading it wrong, or just fake. At this point, that's the Bulldozer story.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14747165*
> And this proves what exactly? That they exist?
> 
> I sure hope so, since their 60-90 day deadline expires in 3 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You got something more interesting to share? *cough* benchmarks *cough*


I don't have any benchmarks, unfortunately.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14747237*
> Why does CPU-Z not match the same model number CPU as CPUID? One is FX-8110, another is FX-8150
> 
> Fake much?


It's an artifact in CPU-Z. Presumably when the author updated the program with Bulldozer support, he included the model numbers available at the time (FX-8130P, FX-8110, FX-6110, etc.) for the name field. The specification field is the correct one, as it is decoded from cpuid values that the processor itself reports. Notice that most of the recent leaks show AMD FX-8130P in the Name field instead of "AMD Processor" like the earliest leaks.

Compare this and this. If someone were to just photoshop CPU-Z, presumably they would make the specification and name fields match.

EDIT: Also consider the 1090T, which showed up in the Name Field as a 1095T when it was first released. http://i55.tinypic.com/2uzbgch.png


----------



## Fr0sty

let's hope they pull the nda very soon


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14747237*
> Why does CPU-Z not match the same model number CPU as CPUID? One is FX-8110, another is FX-8150
> 
> Fake much?


CPU-Z isn't identifying it correctly,or it's fake. CPU-Z doesn't even specify a revision,while AIDA64 says its a B2 chip.


----------



## Fr0sty

cpuz says its a 2 stepping ... so it could very well be true

so close to the 90 day timeline


----------



## Naturecannon

For what its worth, more dates to ponder on!
Quote:


> *Bulldozer AMD FX CPUs next week webshops*
> 
> Sunday, August 28, 2011 at 12:29 - At the Hot Chips conference in Stanford, California, AMD has said that from next week FX processors based Dozer will send to online shops. On September 6 is the NDA, after which the reviews will appear on all major review sites. The FX processors were originally planned for June 2011 but were deferred due to compatibility and performance issues. Motherboard manufacturers have had their BIOSes not working, and also were slower than Bulldozer octa-core Phenom II X6 hexa-cores.


Translated Source


----------



## lan cable garrotte string

Well I hope so, I have enough funds for a full 2500K GTX580 system right now... blahh.


----------



## Madmanden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14747546*
> For what its worth, more dates to ponder on!


Oh man that would be great.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14747546*
> For what its worth, more dates to ponder on!
> 
> Translated Source


September 6th?
Isn't that the day that Kyle over at [H] said they would release the chips?


----------



## Chuckclc

Its coming out Tuesday, been saying it all along. Or else.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lan cable garrotte string;14748135*
> Well I hope so, I have enough funds for a full 2500K GTX580 system right now... blahh.


Same. Im just waiting on benchmarks to decide


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Wow pretty quite in here today.....hopefully it is the calm before the storm


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14749419*
> Wow pretty quite in here today.....hopefully it is the calm before the storm


Dun dun dunn....!!!

*loud suspenseful music*


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14746797*
> This is probably the best post on this thread thus far. 100% true.


I had to sig it...LOL









Saw this today also....

AMD Bulldozer starts shipping next week
Quote:


> Delays and speculations, not the least about Bulldozer, have been a tot topic during the summer, but now the launch is closer than ever. According to sources at Hot Chips Bulldozer will start shipping the coming week, and there are rumors that AMD's closest partners already has the processor in hand. Bulldozer will be AMD's most important architecture in a long time, it is first all new architecture since the launch of K7, 1999.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


For what its worth, more dates to ponder on!

Translated Source


OMG! YES! YES!





















INTEL, YOU WILL DIE ON SEPT 6! /fanboy

Considering this is backed by multiple other sources, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true. I can't wait.


----------



## linkin93

Did Intel die peacefully?










Oh dear, to shreds you say?

/fanboy


----------



## Track

Is BD still coming out?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Track;14750480*
> Is BD still coming out?


Nope, this thread is about fantasizing that it will.


----------



## Track

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14750506*
> Nope, this thread is about fantasizing that it will.


When does it come out in the fantasy?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Track*


When does it come out in the fantasy?


It already came out, was ten times faster than Sandy Bridge, and put Intel out of business.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Track*


When does it come out in the fantasy?


Some fantasize the 30th of this month, others the 6th and some others on the 19-22 of September. 
I'm kind of putting my money on the 6th (wishful thinking perhaps).


----------



## Asus11

bulldozer finally out


----------



## Asus11

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Some fantasize the 30th of this month, others the 6th and some others on the 19-22 of September. 
I'm kind of putting my money on the 6th (wishful thinking perhaps).


it's the 6th of september...2013 I know someone who works in AMD
im trolling but I think everyone has earned the rights to troll on bulldozer release on a day to day basis


----------



## Evil Penguin

2014 actually.
Get it right...


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14749713*
> I had to sig it...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saw this today also....
> 
> AMD Bulldozer starts shipping next week


Source was ZDnet







.


----------



## gplnpsb

Has anyone discussed these Sisoft Sandra benchmarks of two 12 core B1 stepping Interlagos engineering samples?


----------



## Track

But AMD said it would come out in June..

Is there a reason for the delay?

Not only am I losing patience, I'm losing faith, as I assume the reason for the delay is poor performance.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Probably a combination of performance and yields.
AMD is trying really hard to ship as many Llano chips as possible.
That's where a large part of their resources are allocated.


----------



## Usario

I believe an AMD spokesperson has said that Bulldozer was delayed to Q3 because they wanted to focus on producing enough Llano chips and let Fusion get a good deal of spotlight.

I wouldn't be surprised if they took this time to also create a newer, better stepping.


----------



## hazarada

wouldn't it be hilarious if bulldozer got flat out cancelled this tuesday? to boost llano sales obviously


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


wouldn't it be hilarious if bulldozer got flat out cancelled this tuesday? to boost llano sales obviously


Blasphemy....


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;14750582*
> it's the 6th of september...2013 I know someone who works in AMD
> im trolling but I think everyone has earned the rights to troll on bulldozer release on a day to day basis:cheers:


Agreed. I think that expectations have gone up while people wait. Not realistic, but I could see a lot of people saying "This thing better kick butt after being re-worked so many times." I'm still calling equivalent single threaded performance to Bloomfield with multithreaded performance that's slightly better. Think 990X with 2 more physical cores for a lot less money. 1155 will still beat it for almost all gaming. Just my random $0.02. I hope I'm wrong though and that it does indeed kick butt vs. everything.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14750644*
> Has anyone discussed these Sisoft Sandra benchmarks of two 12 core B1 stepping Interlagos engineering samples?


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


----------



## Canis-X

LOL....I think that JF is more excited than the rest of us for BD to release so he doesn't have to see the same statements/questions day in & day out.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut --------------------

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

------------------------paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


As with most of the internet, the collective memory of this forum is about 640k. It ought to be enough for anybody, right? unfortunately the vast river of speculative trash that gets sprayed all over the place very quickly over writes that 640k block of memory and people forget.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


As with most of the internet, the collective memory of this forum is about 640k. It ought to be enough for anybody, right? unfortunately the vast river of speculative trash that gets sprayed all over the place very quickly over writes that 640k block of memory and people forget.










Interesting analogy

....on a side note.....like my siggy? LOL


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

JF-amd
Care to comment on the 90 day deadline (which is public by the way) ending tommarow? does it still hold true? OR this under NDA also?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


JF-amd
Care to comment on the 90 day deadline ending tommarow? does it still hold true? * OR this under NDA also?*


......ah, that would be a yes.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut --------------------

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

------------------------paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


Fair enough, I very much appreciate your dedication in contributing to the forums, and did not mean to frustrate you. I just saw those, and thought they hadn't been mentioned before. I thought they were interesting but certainly did not mean to suggest they were representative of the retail product. I hardly think it's a sin to link to previously unmentioned information.


----------



## StarDestroyer

JF-amd would not even comment benches that are REAL

so no point to listen to him either way on benches


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Fair enough, I very much appreciate your dedication in contributing to the forums, and did not mean to frustrate you. I just saw those, and thought they hadn't been mentioned before. I thought they were interesting but certainly did not mean to suggest they were representative of the retail product. I hardly think it's a sin to link to previously unmentioned information.


It's more along the lines of him stating the same thing almost daily. I wouldn't take it personal.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


JF-amd would not even comment benches that are REAL

so no point to listen to him either way on benches


....an NDA is and NDA.....there are no gray lines there. No real need to be so derogatory either. I know that you are frustrated, we all are, but let's not get too negative, we are all in the same boat waiting for the tide to come in.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*









Interesting analogy

....on a side note.....like my siggy? LOL










i'm honored


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*









i'm honored


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut --------------------

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

------------------------paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


I wish it would, but...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


As with most of the internet, the collective memory of this forum is about 640k. It ought to be enough for anybody, right? unfortunately the vast river of speculative trash that gets sprayed all over the place very quickly over writes that 640k block of memory and people forget.


... this is what will happen.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


LOL....I think that JF is more excited than the rest of us for BD to release so he doesn't have to see the same statements/questions day in & day out.










Lol, probably true


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


JF-amd
Care to comment on the 90 day deadline (which is public by the way) ending tommarow? does it still hold true? OR this under NDA also?


I don't comment on client.


----------



## Canis-X

Dang.....I was close.....so JF, how many times do I have to guess your response correctly before I can get a free FX 8150P? LOL


----------



## Arthedes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Dang.....I was close.....so JF, how many times do I have to guess your response correctly before I can get a free FX 8150P? LOL










many times!

oh - wait - thats what she said!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut --------------------

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

------------------------paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


You should make that your sig John


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I don't comment on client.


and he doesn't comment on client

you would figure there would be some OCer at AMD that would comment here from time to time


----------



## Canis-X

Well there three main ones....

* I don't comment on the client side.
* You will know the release date on release.
* "All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative."

....am I missing any?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


and he doesn't comment on client

you would figure there would be some OCer at AMD that would comment here from time to time


....considering John doesn't have to come on here and post anything, as he does it on his own time, we should be thankful that he comes on here and tells us anything.


----------



## Canis-X

oops, double post....sorry (please delete this one too on the next dry cleaning cycle







)


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Well there three main ones....

* I don't comment on the client side.
* You will know the release date on release.
* "All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative."

....am I missing any?

.


Only one. "No Comment"


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


....considering John doesn't have to come on here and post anything, as he does it on his own time, we should be thankful that he comes on here and tells us anything.



I am very thankful. I think it is very nice of him to come here and provide any information he can. THANK YOU JOHN!!!!!!!!


----------



## Canis-X

Dare-Go!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Oh wow, I just checked out SemiAccurate and XtremeSystems, to see if any info was available on the Bulldozer threads started by JF.....No activity in those threads since Last year.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I am very thankful. I think it is very nice of him to come here and provide any information he can. THANK YOU JOHN!!!!!!!!










Indeed, thanks JF!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Oh wow, I just checked out SemiAccurate and XtremeSystems, to see if any info was available on the Bulldozer threads started by JF.....No activity in those threads since Last year.


Interesting. The thing that amazes me is that half of this thread was written in the last five weeks. This thread is going to be insane when information on the retail chips starts coming.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Interesting. The thing that amazes me is that half of this thread was written in the last five weeks. This thread is going to be insane when information on the retail chips starts coming.


That or it will become dead silent from everyone going in to Shock when it is launched.


----------



## Canis-X

JF....No offense intended, because I do appreciate your presence here, but would it be at all possible that at the time of launch if you could convince one of the client-side BD folks to drop in here and field some of the client-side specific questions.....you know, call in some of those favors that you've had laying around forever.....we would greatly appreciate it!


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:

cut --------------------

All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.

------------------------paste

There, that will fix it for good, right?


So tell us witch ones are representative and witch ones are not real ?


----------



## WizrdSleevz

We need to start a, "We Love JF-AMD" fan club


----------



## Bloodcore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*


We need to start a, "We Love JF-AMD" fan club










A "We love you JF-AMD, Now tell us your secrets" Club?
I'm in.


----------



## Canis-X

^^


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


So tell us witch ones are representative and witch ones are not real ?


uhm... he _did_. Those that show up prior to launch are not representative. Those that show up after launch would be representative of actual performance. Thats pretty clear if you ask me.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We are getting set to re-structure our blog site and there will be a dedicated Bulldozer section that will launch with the new site. Here are the first 2 entries.

Introduction to the Bulldozer Blog:
http://bit.ly/aogYzM

What is Bulldozer:
http://bit.ly/dzPxJt

What you will see in the Bulldozer Blog in the near future:

* "Bulldozer 20 Questions" - we're reviving the popular 20 questions blog, we'll take the best public questions and answer them in the blog over a series of postings.
* Bulldozer technical blog - we'll have our engineers providing some technical details after the Hot Chips presentation
* Bulldozer client blog - yes, even though I spend my life in the server world, there will be a client blog to talk about how Bulldozer will impact the client world.

As always, *we don't discuss launch dates, actual performance, pricing or engineering milestones*, but look forward to seeing a lot of new information coming out in the future.

Be sure to bookmark the Bulldozer Blog; in the future we will have some syndication tools that allow us to keep you in touch and subscribed to all Bulldozer information.


There ya go.....first post.


----------



## gplnpsb

So JF-AMD can't discuss the performance of supposed engineering samples, that was never in question, but why can't we? I'm sure we all agree that they aren't representative of retail performance, but don't they still give us insight into the development of this microprocessor? Just looking quickly at the sisoft benchmarks I linked earlier, it looked like a (presumably) bugged and _unrepresentative_ B1 stepping 12 core interlagos was about equal in multithreading to a similarly clocked 12 core Magny-Cours. If two threads on a bulldozer module are only around 80% as strong as they would be on two separate theoretical bulldozer cores, would this not indicate a hefty (say around 25%) single threaded IPC increase over K10? Presumably the final silicon will perform better than this (I'm sure we all hope considerably better), so I'm quite hopeful about bulldozer's competitiveness.

Please don't hack me apart for discussing bulldozer.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


So JF-AMD can't discuss the performance of supposed engineering samples, that was never in question, but why can't we? I'm sure we all agree that they aren't representative of retail performance, but don't they still give us insight into the development of this microprocessor? Just looking quickly at the sisoft benchmarks I linked earlier, it looked like a (presumably) bugged and _unrepresentative_ B1 stepping 12 core interlagos was about equal in multithreading to a similarly clocked 12 core Magny-Cours. If two threads on a bulldozer module are only around 80% as strong as they would be on two separate theoretical bulldozer cores, would this not indicate a hefty (say around 25%) single threaded IPC increase over K10? Presumably the final silicon will perform better than this (I'm sure we all hope considerably better), so I'm quite hopeful about bulldozer's competitiveness.

Please don't hack me apart for discussing bulldozer.

















This is a reasonable extrapolation but the problem is when people decide to quote or paraphrase your assumptions as fact then make additional conjecture on top of it, and debate reality against a theory with no basis in fact at all. Thats when this thread descends into chaos.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


This is a reasonable extrapolation but the problem is when people decide to quote or paraphrase your assumptions as fact then make additional conjecture on top of it, and debate reality against a theory with no basis in fact at all. Thats when this thread descends into chaos.










Ah, i see, thanks.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14753415*
> This is a reasonable extrapolation but the problem is when people decide to quote or paraphrase your assumptions as fact then make additional conjecture on top of it, and debate reality against a theory with no basis in fact at all. Thats when this thread descends into chaos.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14753510*
> Ah, i see, thanks.


Now that is some healthy discussion right there!!! Fanstanding!!!


----------



## Canis-X

Something is going on??

Link [http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/processors/Pages/fx-processor.aspx[/URL]]

It used to show a vid of BullDozer tech with the epic....."Coming soon..." statement. Now it shows the below when you try to hit the link:


----------



## Usario

^ Yay! Hopefully this means more info coming soon!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

hmmmm.........ok I'll get excited





































Edit: I just watched that video. If its old, its the first time I had ever seen it and OMG....best movie preview ever!!!!!


----------



## WizrdSleevz

ok ok i'm super excited right now. First this http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1104348-wccf-amd-fx-bulldozer-chips-start.html

& now these amd FX posts


----------



## nub

JF-AMD,
Do you know if AMD is working on improving software optimization? Specifically the issues detailed in Agner Fog's cpu blog.

http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49

One of the more amazing examples he gives is the AMD Core Math Library (ACML) he found that some of the functions run faster when the CPU vendor ID is artificially changed to "GenuineIntel". *This version of ACML is compiled with Intel's Fortran compiler.
* (why is AMD using this? shouldn't AMD have it's own Fortran compiler?)
Artificial crippling of competitors chips by way of Intel's compilers is prohibited by the settlement between Intel and AMD. And yet it seems that this is still happening.
The point of all this is, if the software is crippling AMD cpu performance by not using instruction sets available, then how can AMD hope to compete?


----------



## BigCactus

This thread was created over a year ago and there is no real tangible news on performance, etc. What's the use of creating a "Blog" or this thread if they won't release news or details on bulldozer?


----------



## Dhalmel

reading this thread made me think of flash video I uploaded a while ago

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8k8XGYusk[/ame]

Though I think it's silly AMD won't even give a exact release date.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14755095*
> This thread was created over a year ago and there is no real tangible news on performance, etc. What's the use of creating a "Blog" or this thread if they won't release news or details on bulldozer?


The 1st post says it all, and JF-AMD has addressed this question approximately 83 times in this thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10213459*
> As always, we don't discuss launch dates, actual performance, pricing or engineering milestones, but look forward to seeing a lot of new information coming out in the future.


And he addressed it again 6 hours ago...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14751227*
> Here, let me make it easy for everyone to reply to this:
> 
> cut
> 
> All bulldozer benchmarks will be released at launch. Anything that shows up prior is either a.) not real or b.) not representative.
> 
> paste
> 
> There, that will fix it for good, right?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14755134*
> The 1st post says it all, and JF-AMD has addressed this question approximately 83 times in this thread.
> 
> And he addressed it again 6 hours ago...


^^^This


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14755095*
> This thread was created over a year ago and there is no real tangible news on performance, etc. What's the use of creating a "Blog" or this thread if they won't release news or details on bulldozer?


There's a lot of information on Bulldozer... the only things we don't have are benchmarks and a release date.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14751695*
> Dang.....I was close.....so JF, how many times do I have to guess your response correctly before I can get a free FX 8150P? LOL


I don't ever have access to client parts. I have a room full of Opteron, but when it comes to client parts I have to ask the guy at the end of my row.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14751760*
> you would figure there would be some OCer at AMD that would comment here from time to time


Based on the PMs and email messages that I get, I can see why nobody wants to stick their neck out. The enthusiast community has some nice people in it, but there is an overabundance of stupid 12-year-olds with lots of time on their hands.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14751917*
> Oh wow, I just checked out SemiAccurate and XtremeSystems, to see if any info was available on the Bulldozer threads started by JF.....No activity in those threads since Last year.


I keep an eye on a variety of forums, but you'll see that I start very few threads. If I have something to say I usually shoot it out on twitter and it gets around to the right places.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14752063*
> JF....No offense intended, because I do appreciate your presence here, but would it be at all possible that at the time of launch if you could convince one of the client-side BD folks to drop in here and field some of the client-side specific questions.....you know, call in some of those favors that you've had laying around forever.....we would greatly appreciate it!


See above. If I was in client I probably wouldn't make my name known.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14752274*
> So tell us witch ones are representative and witch ones are not real ?


I have no idea what is real or not. But that doesn't matter if none are representative, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14753144*
> So JF-AMD can't discuss the performance of supposed engineering samples, that was never in question, but why can't we? I'm sure we all agree that they aren't representative of retail performance, but don't they still give us insight into the development of this microprocessor? Just looking quickly at the sisoft benchmarks I linked earlier, it looked like a (presumably) bugged and _unrepresentative_ B1 stepping 12 core interlagos was about equal in multithreading to a similarly clocked 12 core Magny-Cours. If two threads on a bulldozer module are only around 80% as strong as they would be on two separate theoretical bulldozer cores, would this not indicate a hefty (say around 25%) single threaded IPC increase over K10? Presumably the final silicon will perform better than this (I'm sure we all hope considerably better), so I'm quite hopeful about bulldozer's competitiveness.
> 
> Please don't hack me apart for discussing bulldozer.


I have no issue with people discussing it. But NOBODY ever uses the phrase "in my opinion..." or "I think..." Instead they say "I read..." or "according to...." and that changes it from an opinion to a fact in many people's eyes. Then it becomes *shudder* an internet truth.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14754474*
> JF-AMD,
> Do you know if AMD is working on improving software optimization? Specifically the issues detailed in Agner Fog's cpu blog.
> 
> http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49
> 
> One of the more amazing examples he gives is the AMD Core Math Library (ACML) he found that some of the functions run faster when the CPU vendor ID is artificially changed to "GenuineIntel". *This version of ACML is compiled with Intel's Fortran compiler.
> * (why is AMD using this? shouldn't AMD have it's own Fortran compiler?)
> Artificial crippling of competitors chips by way of Intel's compilers is prohibited by the settlement between Intel and AMD. And yet it seems that this is still happening.
> The point of all this is, if the software is crippling AMD cpu performance by not using instruction sets available, then how can AMD hope to compete?


Why doesn't AMD have its own compiler? First, it would be massively expensive to start and maintain a compiler. Secondly, then you have to convince the world to use that compiler. Do you really think that software developers want to maintain 2 code bases?

There are 2 ways to identify the capabilities. One is to code it into the software. That is the bad way. The other is to query the CPU to see what capabilities are available. If you query the CPU, you will have no problem.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dhalmel;14755130*
> reading this thread made me think of flash video I uploaded a while ago
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8k8XGYusk
> 
> Though I think it's silly AMD won't even give a exact release date.


There is no benefit in releasing the launch date, and there is a HUGE negative financial impact.


----------



## Nocturin

/\/\ well put.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14755380*
> There is no benefit in releasing the launch date, and there is a HUGE negative financial impact.


Can you go into that further, so we can better understand?

Intel and many companies release launch dates prior to a product release.

At your analyst meeting of 2010, you reported that Bulldozer would be released in Q2. So, why were release plans revealed then, but not now?

One would think that if customers knew when a product was set to be released, it would put an end to rumors, and negative stigma surrounding the product.

All of this is my opinion. and would like clarification from your perspective.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14755998*
> Can you go into that further, so we can better understand?
> 
> Intel and many companies release launch dates prior to a product release.
> 
> At your analyst meeting of 2010, you reported that Bulldozer would be released in Q2. So, why were release plans revealed then, but not now?
> 
> One would think that if customers knew when a product was set to be released, it would put an end to rumors, and negative stigma surrounding the product.
> 
> All of this is my opinion. and would like clarification from your perspective.


Considering that Intel is AMDs primary competitor, and capable of one-up-man-ship in no time flat, I can understand why ALL information is kept quiet. It's all about market share, in GPU's for instance, nVidia seems a little less keen to releasing dates now than it was in the past.

It's a possibility that AMD will be able to have the limelight for a few minutes, and this window of opportunity gets much smaller with "official" releases because then the competition can apply counter measures much quicker.

AMD is not in a position to counter-counter measure quickly enough to deal with the horrid game of cat in mouse with the CPU division.

Anyone know the history of the K8 processors and release dates when they were at the top of the game/ what the market share was in correlation?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14756071*
> -snip-


I totally understand that, but if that was the case, why was this statement made back in November 9, 2010?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> *Product Schedules* - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. *We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011*. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


I know this wasn't a "release date" but it gave a definite time frame about 5 - 8 months in advance. Which at the time, was prior to Sandy Bridge's launch.

So, my questions remain to JF-AMD. I'm not nit-picking John, just trying to understand.


----------



## JF-AMD

OK, first, please show me examples of intel putting their launch dates out. What was SB-E? Someone please show me that date.

OK, now on to why we don't release launch dates. People have a habit of sitting on the sidelines if they think something is coming up. For the mass of the market, they don't know/don't care, because that new thing is not what they are buying. But they think the price of the thing that they are going to buy is going to come down. How many people buy cars in the fall because all of the new models come out and they can gret a great deal on the older models?

So, if you give out the launch date, or benchmarks, then you have stalled demand for your current products. That hurts.

Now, also take into consideration that OEMs buy your processors monthly. They plan out quarters ahead of time based on your transitions. Suddenly someone throws a monkey wrench into the works by releasing a launch date or a benchmark. Customers stop buying. Inventory starts to pile up. Now you have the OEM angry and you also have the retailer angry. All of that gets really costly because they are going to come to you and ask you to take care of the inventory. So my $100 processor is keeping someone from buying a $500 computer. Ooops.

Supply chains work multiple quarters out. I used to run 2-3 quarters out when I was running business development. You just can't disrupt things.

Now I know you are thinking "well, if your performance is so great, you'll get lots of business from your competitors' customers."

Except that really doesn't happen as much in real life. First, because more than 80% of the market is processor unaware. And secondly, if your competitor saw the benchmarks or knew the launch date, don't you think that they could take the right actions? Promotions? Price drops? Or do you think they would just say "well, they got us this time, I hope we do better next time"?

The reality is that there is no good business case for stalling your own sales by releasing those things too early. Huge financial risk, dubious reward, if any at all.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14756330*
> OK, first, please show me examples of intel putting their launch dates out. What was SB-E? Someone please show me that date.
> 
> OK, now on to why we don't release launch dates. People have a habit of sitting on the sidelines if they think something is coming up. For the mass of the market, they don't know/don't care, because that new thing is not what they are buying. But they think the price of the thing that they are going to buy is going to come down. How many people buy cars in the fall because all of the new models come out and they can gret a great deal on the older models?
> 
> So, if you give out the launch date, or benchmarks, then you have stalled demand for your current products. That hurts.
> 
> Now, also take into consideration that OEMs buy your processors monthly. They plan out quarters ahead of time based on your transitions. Suddenly someone throws a monkey wrench into the works by releasing a launch date or a benchmark. Customers stop buying. Inventory starts to pile up. Now you have the OEM angry and you also have the retailer angry. All of that gets really costly because they are going to come to you and ask you to take care of the inventory. So my $100 processor is keeping someone from buying a $500 computer. Ooops.
> 
> Supply chains work multiple quarters out. I used to run 2-3 quarters out when I was running business development. You just can't disrupt things.
> 
> Now I know you are thinking "well, if your performance is so great, you'll get lots of business from your competitors' customers."
> 
> Except that really doesn't happen as much in real life. First, because more than 80% of the market is processor unaware. And secondly, if your competitor saw the benchmarks or knew the launch date, don't you think that they could take the right actions? Promotions? Price drops? Or do you think they would just say "well, they got us this time, I hope we do better next time"?
> 
> The reality is that there is no good business case for stalling your own sales by releasing those things too early. Huge financial risk, dubious reward, if any at all.


Thanks for taking the time to write all that up; very informative! And hopefully it will put to rest all of this "AMD isn't talking about Bulldozer so it must be a fail" talk... at least until the rest of that 640k memory this forum has is used up and your post gets written over in everyone's minds.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14755998*
> 
> I totally understand that, but if that was the case, why was this statement made back in November 9, 2010?


I am flying out to florida in a couple of weeks. When I book my tickets, American Airlines will tell me that the flight is leaving at 9:00 AM.

If there is a storm or air traffic issues or even issues loading the luggage, the plane will not leave at 9:00.

Did they lie to me? Did they try to mislead me?

Would you buy a ticket for a flight that leaves "sometime on Tuesday"?

Life is imprecise, everyone needs to deal with that. We have two choices, we can give everyone the best information that we have at that time, or we can say nothing until launch and then say everything then.

But, based on the fact that there are a few thousand posts in this thread, it seems like the "give me what you believe today" is a lot more popular than the alternative. Nobody is lying to you.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14756330*
> ...
> Now, also take into consideration that OEMs buy your processors monthly. They plan out quarters ahead of time based on your transitions. Suddenly someone throws a monkey wrench into the works by releasing a launch date or a benchmark. Customers stop buying. Inventory starts to pile up. Now you have the OEM angry and you also have the retailer angry. All of that gets really costly because they are going to come to you and ask you to take care of the inventory. So my $100 processor is keeping someone from buying a $500 computer. Ooops.
> 
> Supply chains work multiple quarters out. I used to run 2-3 quarters out when I was running business development. You just can't disrupt things.
> 
> Now I know you are thinking "well, if your performance is so great, you'll get lots of business from your competitors' customers."
> 
> Except that really doesn't happen as much in real life. First, because more than 80% of the market is processor unaware. And secondly, if your competitor saw the benchmarks or knew the launch date, don't you think that they could take the right actions? Promotions? Price drops? Or do you think they would just say "well, they got us this time, I hope we do better next time"?...


damn i love insight like this.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14755095*
> This thread was created over a year ago and there is no real tangible news on performance, etc. *What's the use of creating a "Blog" or this thread if they won't release news or details on bulldozer?*


So you'll ask that question.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14756330*
> OK, first, please show me examples of intel putting their launch dates out. What was SB-E? Someone please show me that date.
> 
> OK, now on to why we don't release launch dates. People have a habit of sitting on the sidelines if they think something is coming up. For the mass of the market, they don't know/don't care, because that new thing is not what they are buying. But they think the price of the thing that they are going to buy is going to come down. How many people buy cars in the fall because all of the new models come out and they can gret a great deal on the older models?
> 
> So, if you give out the launch date, or benchmarks, then you have stalled demand for your current products. That hurts.
> 
> Now, also take into consideration that OEMs buy your processors monthly. They plan out quarters ahead of time based on your transitions. Suddenly someone throws a monkey wrench into the works by releasing a launch date or a benchmark. Customers stop buying. Inventory starts to pile up. Now you have the OEM angry and you also have the retailer angry. All of that gets really costly because they are going to come to you and ask you to take care of the inventory. So my $100 processor is keeping someone from buying a $500 computer. Ooops.
> 
> Supply chains work multiple quarters out. I used to run 2-3 quarters out when I was running business development. You just can't disrupt things.
> 
> Now I know you are thinking "well, if your performance is so great, you'll get lots of business from your competitors' customers."
> 
> Except that really doesn't happen as much in real life. First, because more than 80% of the market is processor unaware. And secondly, if your competitor saw the benchmarks or knew the launch date, don't you think that they could take the right actions? Promotions? Price drops? Or do you think they would just say "well, they got us this time, I hope we do better next time"?
> 
> The reality is that there is no good business case for stalling your own sales by releasing those things too early. Huge financial risk, dubious reward, if any at all.


Thank you very much for taking the time to write all of this up. It really clears the air IMO. This would be a great addition to your first post me thinks......also makes it easy to find for reference....LOL.

I understand about the consumer person not wanting to stick his/her neck out in this community, but I'm sure that if he/she would take that chance that the mods would be more than willing to keep an eye out and protect them from any of the "12 y/o'ds with too much time on their hands". I may be speaking out of turn (sorry mods if I am), but they seem to run a pretty tight ship here......good job mods!!







Maybe a pre-conversation can me had to clear the air so-to-speak and put minds at ease?? Possibly?? I know, I for one, would truly love to hear what information that could impart upon us.


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14755380*
> The enthusiast community has some nice people in it, but there is an overabundance of stupid 12-year-olds with lots of time on their hands












YESSS /Hi-Five


----------



## Evil Penguin

Very informative, John.
Thanks for the writeup.

There are times when I do get all "pfft forget this".
I do know for sure I'll be buying the top of the line eight core Zambezi CPU when it's released.
Me likey new tech!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14756330*
> -snip-


Thank you for clarifying all of that, as it helps to answer those questions that I and others have been having. Great insight, thank you. But then again, it brings up another question, if AMD was so secretive about their release dates, why did they give a 60 - 90 Day estimate for release on June 1st? This is enough to tip off Intel, have people sit on the sidelines, affect supply chains, etc, etc, etc.

Anybody who has done any sort of research, will know that Bulldozer is being released by AMD sometime this year. Personally speaking, I didn't build a Sandy Bridge rig, because I thought Bulldozer was coming in June, and I wanted to compare the 2. That wait has turned out to be longer than expected though, regardless, I've waited this far, what's another couple weeks. ( Though I've been saying that for months now. )

I understand you're not lying to us, and you can only give the best info you have at hand. I no longer ask for benchmarks, or a release date, but rather just wanted to know the reasoning behind not releasing an "actual date", even though *plenty of estimates have been given.*

Sandy Bridge *seems* to be a preferred choice over Phenom II right now, for people who have built rigs between January 2011 - Present. Sometimes we see the odd person who built a new AMD rig, and the reasons for that are that they were really budget constrained. Or, they built with a 990FX board in hopes to upgrade to Bulldozer, *since they knew it was "coming soon"*

The overall consensus has been... "Wait for Bulldozer, or build Sandy Bridge now"

Based on my observations *I am speaking in regards to the "enthusiast market"*, as you pointed out is likely 20% or less? I wonder what the exact percentage the enthusiast market really is. I know that around here, we'd all like to think we're the most important, but in reality, we are a very small percentage of the overall pie.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14756330*
> OK, first, please show me examples of intel putting their launch dates out. What was SB-E? Someone please show me that date.


I found plenty of examples of a Sandy Bridge release date, here's the most reliable that pin pointed the exact release date.









http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20022893-64.html?tag=mncol

For SB-E, we currently have a roadmap.










I understand that Intel and AMD are in very different positions though.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNuetralParty*
> *Anti-AMD comments, referring to "Bulldozer not truly being AM3+ compatible"*


What can I say to this guy at another forum who doesn't know anything about AMD probably. Here is what he said:

What do I say to that so he can shut his mouth?


----------



## Usario

That Intel's had four sockets in the past three years.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> But then again, it brings up another question, if AMD was so secretive about their release dates, why did they give a 60 - 90 Day estimate for release on June 1st?


thats when they will announce a new release time frame


----------



## raisethe3

Damn, this thread has been getting out of hand lately, lol.

But now it makes me wonder...September is just a few days away. Does September counts as Q2?

@JF-AMD- You said launch was Q2 in the beginning a couple months back correct? Of course I know you don't comment much about client desktop or rumors. But I do remember correctly you said AMD was on track?

I don't know what I am saying, lol.


----------



## Hogwasher

The flight analogy is terrible. If a flight was postponed I would be irritated and the longer the postponement the louder I would become. Some would become loud before others. But since I have not bought a ticket I can always use another carrier ie. Sandy bridge


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14757530*
> The flight analogy is terrible. If a flight was postponed I would be irritated and the longer the postponement the louder I would become. Some would become loud before others. But since I have not bought a ticket I can always use another carrier ie. Sandy bridge


JF's probably talking about like a 30-45 minute delay.

Which actually is very common. In fact, I don't think I've ever been on a flight that didn't take off at least 20 minutes after it was scheduled to.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usario;14757256*
> that intel's had four sockets in the past three years.


am2+, am3, am3+, fm1


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14757906*
> am2+, am3, am3+, fm1


But at least they have backwards compatibility.


----------



## Twitchie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14757906*
> am2+, am3, am3+, fm1


See, the problem with that is that AM3 procs will fit in 3/4 of those, and AM3+ will fit in 2/4 of those. So if you bought a 955 when it was released you could've had it in 3 out of those 4 sockets, which ain't exactly the same as Intels 4 Sockets.


----------



## cise4832

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14757159*
> What can I say to this guy at another forum who doesn't know anything about AMD probably. Here is what he said:
> 
> What do I say to that so he can shut his mouth?


B2 Stepping


----------



## HK_47

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2Fcolumn%2Fkaigai%2F20110830_473823.html


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14757906*
> am2+, am3, am3+, fm1


AMx sockets are backwards and forwards compatible, unlike Intel's sockets.

New CPUs were released for LGA 775, LGA 1156, LGA 1366, and LGA 1155 in the past three years. LGA 2011 coming soon! And none of them are compatible with each other.


----------



## Naturecannon

So BD is only 4 cores and marketed as 8 cores?









4 cores, 8 threads as they share resources.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14757594*
> JF's probably talking about like a 30-45 minute delay.
> 
> Which actually is very common. In fact, I don't think I've ever been on a flight that didn't take off at least 20 minutes after it was scheduled to.


But I think we are past a 45 minute delay. I understand why they don't release info but calling people 12 year olds is not helping. It would be different if they never gave a release date or never had to delay it. I rather they delay then give us a inferior product but our complaining comes with the territory of being delayed or missing release dates


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14755134*
> The 1st post says it all, and JF-AMD has addressed this question approximately 83 times in this thread.
> 
> And he addressed it again 6 hours ago...


So basically what's the point? The Blog has been dead over at AMD for quite some time. There is no real news about Bulldozer in this thread that people are going to care about.









Edit: NM thanks for that bitech article...2 weeks!


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14758227*
> So BD is only 4 cores and marketed as 8 cores?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 cores, 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


maybe if you payed attention to the posts above you would know that a module is two cores that share resources. BD has 8 cores 8 threads


----------



## StarDestroyer

BD is not like leprechaun's (little people)

is more like bigfoot, talked of but no proof of anything


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14758227*
> So BD is only 4 cores and marketed as 8 cores?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 cores, 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


There is a 4, 6 and 8 core BD to be released.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14758227*
> So BD is only 4 cores and marketed as 8 cores?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 cores, 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


Have you been living under a rock?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14757906*
> am2+, am3, am3+, fm1


FM1 does not count since that is for the totally new type of CPU.


----------



## Evil Penguin

That's a lot of Photoshopped empty space in there.








Could be wrong.


----------



## Fr0sty

wich empty space?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14759440*
> wich empty space?




























I don't think there's a single die shot out there that isn't touched up.


----------



## Fr0sty

so if its shoped your assumption about empty space is invalid then

because we dont have the official die shot of the final product .. so we can't make any remark regarding this matter


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14759108*
> FM1 does not count since that is for the totally new type of CPU.


While I didn't mean to "mine is better than yours" it's clear that's where it was taken.

FM1 is an Athlon II with a gpu, surely you don't consider that "totally new" do you? We already had on die gpus in 2010 that didn't require a new socket.

More to the point it shows when AMD delivers something new"ish", sockets change. AM3+ is here because of Bulldozer, which will have a short life prior to FM2.

If you want AMD to improve performance more than they have over the last six years, you need to let go of socket compatibility, the only reason they had such a run is because every processor since k7 was a refresh.

Just tell it like it is.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14759563*
> so if its shoped your assumption about empty space is invalid then
> 
> because we dont have the official die shot of the final product .. so we can't make any remark regarding this matter


I never said that it actually has empty space.
Only that the pictures do.
Chances are that they are hiding things.
Though we've know this for a long time, just thought I'd mention it hasn't changed.


----------



## Fr0sty

what i find weird is the fm1 to fm2 change .. or is it even a change
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14759611*
> I never said that it actually has empty space.
> Only that the pictures do.
> Chances are that they are hiding things.
> Though we've know this for a long time, just thought I'd mention it hasn't changed.


of course ... but now instead of having forum users interpreting wich part of the die is suposed to be what .. we have amd slides showing us what is what .. so at least we have that


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14756889*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20022893-64.html?tag=mncol
> 
> For SB-E, we currently have a roadmap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that Intel and AMD are in very different positions though.


The big difference on that is that SB was demo'd earlier at IDF and was promised that it would launch by the end of the year. It slipped to the end of the year and they were faced with the prospect of launching "a year late" because it moved from 2011 to 2012. So, in that position, you tell people the date because you have shareholders to protect. That is not a fair example.

The roadmaps that you are showing are no different from AMD roadmaps. They aren't generally released to the public (we do it for financial analyst day but otherwise they are under NDA).

What I was asking for was something FROM Intel, not a story by a third party quoting a launch date. There are plenty of thrid party sources listing launch dates for us, so those could be right or wrong. Mostly they are wrong.

I am done discussing this topic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14757594*
> JF's probably talking about like a 30-45 minute delay.
> 
> Which actually is very common. In fact, I don't think I've ever been on a flight that didn't take off at least 20 minutes after it was scheduled to.


I have done over 90,000 miles so far this year, I can say that a 20 minute delay would be welcomed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14758227*
> So BD is only 4 cores and marketed as 8 cores?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 cores, 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/08/26/amd-bulldozer-to-ship-within-the-next-week/1


No.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14758246*
> But I think we are past a 45 minute delay. I understand why they don't release info but calling people 12 year olds is not helping. It would be different if they never gave a release date or never had to delay it. I rather they delay then give us a inferior product but our complaining comes with the territory of being delayed or missing release dates


When I said "12-year-olds" I was referring to actual 12-year-olds. How would you like to open up your blog comments and see:
Quote:


> what is the launch schedule of bulldozer u ***n pice of ****.you mentioned q2 for client and q3 for server. right now q3 is going on and u ****holes still havent announced a launch date. u guys are just big liars go to hell losers.


Yes, that is an actual comment on my bolg. Obviously I did not approve it, so it never went live. There are about 50+ more comments like that. And I get emails in my work inbox as well; no profanity, but the same gist. I assume that it is some 12-year-old, maybe I am wrong, but I am guessing that you would not defend this one.

That is probably why the client people won't come around.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*
> 
> That's a lot of Photoshopped empty space in there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could be wrong.


All you are seeing is the first of 11 layers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*
> 
> I don't think there's a single die shot out there that isn't touched up.


To date there are none.


----------



## linkin93

Of course there aren't, it would just be plain stupid to release an un-edited die shot...


----------



## StarDestroyer

just to run this page in firefox 4, my big ol 6950 gets to 52C on auto fan, idle is 35-38C

thats ridiculous


----------



## linkin93

And that has to do with Bulldozer because... ?

(and turn off gpu acceleration)


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14759714*
> Of course there aren't, it would just be plain stupid to release an un-edited die shot...


I think initially it was done to make it difficult to guess the size of the die.
I don't know if eventually after launch they will release an "uncensored" version of the die shot.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14759963*
> I think initially it was done to make it difficult to guess the size of the die.
> I don't know if eventually after launch they will release an "uncensored" version of the die shot.


tbh i'm not sure if there are any unedited die shots of modern procs floating around. i'm sure you could fined 486 and Pentium ones, probably, but i'd be shocked if there were C2D or Athalon die shots around that werent edited.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


But I think we are past a 45 minute delay. I understand why they don't release info but calling people 12 year olds is not helping. It would be different if they never gave a release date or never had to delay it. I rather they delay then give us a inferior product but our complaining comes with the territory of being delayed or missing release dates


Read his signature....that is coming from John not from AMD, and furthermore, the reason for the statement has been earned time and time again.....just look at all of the mod clean up posts in this thread.

Quote:



While I work for AMD, *my posts are my own opinions*.


----------



## Jared2608

@ JF, people who post stuff like that on your blog are of a very low mentality. I will stand by that because if you can't take the time to spell correctly and use decent grammar, or you just don't know how because your brain is over run with social media sites, then you are of a low mentality.

The rest of us are glad to have someone "on the inside" who can give us insights and updates, even though you can't tell us everything we want to know becuase of confidentiality and so on.

I'll just wait and see what BD looks like when it launches, then weigh it up against what Intel is offering, and then decide on my new build. That way I'll also have all the money to buy everything at once


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14759963*
> I think initially it was done to make it difficult to guess the size of the die.
> I don't know if eventually after launch they will release an "uncensored" version of the die shot.


Die shots are always released in the final press package. High res, large size.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Uncensored?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


OK, first, please show me examples of intel putting their launch dates out. What was SB-E? Someone please show me that date.

OK, now on to why we don't release launch dates. People have a habit of sitting on the sidelines if they think something is coming up. For the mass of the market, they don't know/don't care, because that new thing is not what they are buying. But they think the price of the thing that they are going to buy is going to come down. How many people buy cars in the fall because all of the new models come out and they can gret a great deal on the older models?

So, if you give out the launch date, or benchmarks, then you have stalled demand for your current products. That hurts.

Now, also take into consideration that OEMs buy your processors monthly. They plan out quarters ahead of time based on your transitions. Suddenly someone throws a monkey wrench into the works by releasing a launch date or a benchmark. Customers stop buying. Inventory starts to pile up. Now you have the OEM angry and you also have the retailer angry. All of that gets really costly because they are going to come to you and ask you to take care of the inventory. So my $100 processor is keeping someone from buying a $500 computer. Ooops.

Supply chains work multiple quarters out. I used to run 2-3 quarters out when I was running business development. You just can't disrupt things.

Now I know you are thinking "well, if your performance is so great, you'll get lots of business from your competitors' customers."

Except that really doesn't happen as much in real life. First, because more than 80% of the market is processor unaware. And secondly, if your competitor saw the benchmarks or knew the launch date, don't you think that they could take the right actions? Promotions? Price drops? Or do you think they would just say "well, they got us this time, I hope we do better next time"?

The reality is that there is no good business case for stalling your own sales by releasing those things too early. Huge financial risk, dubious reward, if any at all.


JF-AMD : BRAVO to you on this post.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Die shots are always released in the final press package. High res, large size.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Uncensored?


If it's got the goods, I might just use it as my desktop background for a while







.


----------



## Schmuckley

i'm crossing my fingers in the hopes it'll be roughly 50% better than sandy bridge,hope that isn't aiming too high


----------



## BallaTheFeared

NM he said to date there are no pictures that aren't touched up.

I'm not sure if he means for bulldozer, or if he means for any AMD processor though.

Reading is hard sometimes /







\\


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


i'm crossing my fingers in the hopes it'll be roughly 50% better than sandy bridge,hope that isn't aiming too high


That would be pretty astounding to be honest, not that it couldn't be done but that seems like a pretty steep expectation. I'm hoping to be on par or 5-15% better clock for clock.


----------



## Schmuckley

15% better clock-for-clock would make me happy..







..oh..and no cap on clocking


----------



## Fengatsu

I'm tired of waiting for Bulldozer right now








I can sell my build right now and go to Sandy but im still trying to decide if it's worth it, at least for what i do most that it's gaming.

Anyway, i want to know if it's true that Asus Am3 motherboards will not be compatible anymore with Bulldozer. Someone told me that Gigabyte have Am3 boards labeled like Am3+ ready and give me this link: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3755#ov

And he told me that Asus has taken down their site when they have support for Bulldozer, the link was: http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready//

I have checked the main page of my CHIV-F and find that there is a bios for Bulldozer:
Crosshair IV Formula 3017 Test BIOS

But this guy told me that it's just a test bios, like beta version and Asus will never again will do a new bios to support Bulldozer because Amd will sue Asus for doing that. 
Ultimately he told me that Am3+ will not have backward compatibility in any way with Am3 Asus motherboards like my CHIV.

It's anything of that truth? in that case, i don't understand why gigabyte can have am3 motherboards with am3+ bios updates but Asus will be sued for doing that or cannot make a new bios to fix their beta :S

That's another reason for why i'm thinking of switching to Sandy, if anything of that it's true then my CHIV don't have any use to me and i will likely going to sell it and go for Sandy and then Ivy.

I hope someone here can confirm this to me so i will stay on the boat of waiting for Bulldozer if it will be compatible with my motherboard or else i will go into the darkside and buy Sandy.

pd: sry my bad english


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fengatsu*


I'm tired of waiting for Bulldozer right now








I can sell my build right now and go to Sandy but im still trying to decide if it's worth it, at least for what i do most that it's gaming.

Anyway, i want to know if it's true that Asus Am3 motherboards will not be compatible anymore with Bulldozer. Someone told me that Gigabyte have Am3 boards labeled like Am3+ ready and give me this link: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3755#ov

And he told me that Asus has taken down their site when they have support for Bulldozer, the link was: http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready//

I have checked the main page of my CHIV-F and find that there is a bios for Bulldozer:
Crosshair IV Formula 3017 Test BIOS

But this guy told me that it's just a test bios, like beta version and Asus will never again will do a new bios to support Bulldozer because Amd will sue Asus for doing that. 
Ultimately he told me that Am3+ will not have backward compatibility in any way with Am3 Asus motherboards like my CHIV.

It's anything of that truth? in that case, i don't understand why gigabyte can have am3 motherboards with am3+ bios updates but Asus will be sued for doing that or cannot make a new bios to fix their beta :S

That's another reason for why i'm thinking of switching to Sandy, if anything of that it's true then my CHIV don't have any use to me and i will likely going to sell it and go for Sandy and then Ivy.

I hope someone here can confirm this to me so i will stay on the boat of waiting for Bulldozer if it will be compatible with my motherboard or else i will go into the darkside and buy Sandy.

pd: sry my bad english










that 1055T should hold you for awhile, wait.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fengatsu*


I'm tired of waiting for Bulldozer right now








I can sell my build right now and go to Sandy but im still trying to decide if it's worth it, at least for what i do most that it's gaming.

Anyway, i want to know if it's true that Asus Am3 motherboards will not be compatible anymore with Bulldozer. Someone told me that Gigabyte have Am3 boards labeled like Am3+ ready and give me this link: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3755#ov

And he told me that Asus has taken down their site when they have support for Bulldozer, the link was: http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready//

I have checked the main page of my CHIV-F and find that there is a bios for Bulldozer:
Crosshair IV Formula 3017 Test BIOS

But this guy told me that it's just a test bios, like beta version and Asus will never again will do a new bios to support Bulldozer because Amd will sue Asus for doing that. 
Ultimately he told me that Am3+ will not have backward compatibility in any way with Am3 Asus motherboards like my CHIV.

It's anything of that truth? in that case, i don't understand why gigabyte can have am3 motherboards with am3+ bios updates but Asus will be sued for doing that or cannot make a new bios to fix their beta :S

That's another reason for why i'm thinking of switching to Sandy, if anything of that it's true then my CHIV don't have any use to me and i will likely going to sell it and go for Sandy and then Ivy.

I hope someone here can confirm this to me so i will stay on the boat of waiting for Bulldozer if it will be compatible with my motherboard or else i will go into the darkside and buy Sandy.

pd: sry my bad english










So, you are going to sell your AMD CPU and Motherboard and go with SB. If you want the full functionality of BullDozer you would have to sell off your CPU and motherboard anyway, I don't understand your logic here.


----------



## Fengatsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


So, you are going to sell your AMD CPU and Motherboard and go with SB. If you want the full functionality of BullDozer you would have to sell off your CPU and motherboard anyway, I don't understand your logic here.


In my country its hard to find good deals when reselling mid-high end hardware. Or to buy new one.

Normaly a 1055t will cost you U$S 210, i5 2500k U$S330 - i7 2600k U$S480
My motherboard cost U$S310 - but the CHV cost U$S500

I can resell my stuff like new right now without losing too much money and get Sandy like a trade but the offer will last until friday next week.

I don't have lot of money to change my system everyday so i can go for Sandy right now and just pay U$S 100 after "trading" my stuff.
So its a good deal for me.

Also its hard to resell high end motherboards so if i have to resell my CHIV i will get $S 170-200 and thats a Gap that i can't pay to get an Am3+ motherboard, at least right now.

So i was hoping Bulldozer will fit in my CHIV and eventually i will get the ChIV when possible.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

the suspense today is killing me......I know that any kind of announcement regarding BD today, *was all just speculation*, I am just really hoping we do hear something today.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fengatsu*


In my country its hard to find good deals when reselling mid-high end hardware. Or to buy new one.

Normaly a 1055t will cost you U$S 210, i5 2500k U$S330 - i7 2600k U$S480
My motherboard cost U$S310 - but the CHV cost U$S500

I can resell my stuff like new right now without losing too much money and get Sandy like a trade but the offer will last until friday next week.

I don't have lot of money to change my system everyday so i can go for Sandy right now and just pay U$S 100 after "trading" my stuff.
So its a good deal for me.

Also its hard to resell high end motherboards so if i have to resell my CHIV i will get $S 170-200 and thats a Gap that i can't pay to get an Am3+ motherboard, at least right now.

So i was hoping Bulldozer will fit in my CHIV and eventually i will get the ChIV when possible.


Still doesn't make sense to me....sorry, either way you will need to sell your CPU and motherboard and buy a new CPU and motherboard. Don't get me wrong, do what you want, but your logic behind it is confusing.

Edit:

If the motherboard manufacturers want to try and come out with a new BIOS that will allow BullDozer to run in some capacity, that is on them. AMD has stated from the beginning that they will *only* support BullDozer on an AM3+ socket 9xx series chipset motherboard. This is nothing new.


----------



## Schmuckley

to:fengatsu..3 weeks,dude..you can wait 3 weeks..ok..yeah ..i caved and got sb.. ..did you dl the bios update from asus?Maybe they're integrating support into the individual bios updates now.your mobo should be compatible.IMO i'd tough it out for 3 weeks.i know crosshair 4 and m4a89gtd pro were supported.Perhaps not "officially" yet supported
nonetheless.


----------



## Fengatsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Still doesn't make sense to me....sorry, either way you will need to sell your CPU and motherboard and buy a new CPU and motherboard. Don't get me wrong, do what you want, but your logic behind it is confusing.

Edit:

If the motherboard manufacturers want to try and come out with a new BIOS that will allow BullDozer to run in some capacity, that is on them. AMD has stated from the beginning that they will *only* support BullDozer on an AM3+ socket 9xx series chipset motherboard. This is nothing new.


My logic is that i can save lot of money if i change to Sandy until friday next week or pay in the long run lot of money to change from my current build, to Bulldozer. My english is poor so im trying my best to get understand sry









I can change my system to Sandy 2600k with p8p67pro and pay $100 but until friday next week or i can stuck in my CHIV, get bulldozer in 2-4 month, stick it in m CHIV, save money and in 2-4 month get CHV. And i will have to pay at least $500 in the end-

I know Amd stated that from the beginning i just want to know if it's true that Amd can stop motherboard manufacturers from releasing Bios that can support Bulldozer.


----------



## Impunity

Breaking news

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...the-issue.aspx

The aricle basically refutes the notion that GF has had Yield issues with BD. There have been yield issues getting GPU and CPU integration with Llano however. Nothing jaw dropping but its comforting nonetheless


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


Breaking news

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...the-issue.aspx

The aricle basically refutes the notion that GF has had Yield issues with BD. There have been yield issues getting GPU and CPU integration with Llano however. Nothing jaw dropping but its comforting nonetheless


If it wasn't yield issues, than what else would cause the delay we've seen? Performance?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


But I think we are past a 45 minute delay.


No, we aren't. One quarter isn't necessarily that long. If you think about it, it's recommended that you get to the airport around two hours before your flight leaves the gate. So this is merely a 30 minute delay, which is very normal.

Quote:



I understand why they don't release info but calling people 12 year olds is not helping. It would be different if they never gave a release date or never had to delay it. I rather they delay then give us a inferior product but our complaining comes with the territory of being delayed or missing release dates


You don't know who he's talking about.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


When I said "12-year-olds" I was referring to actual 12-year-olds. How would you like to open up your blog comments and see:

Yes, that is an actual comment on my bolg. Obviously I did not approve it, so it never went live. There are about 50+ more comments like that. And I get emails in my work inbox as well; no profanity, but the same gist. I assume that it is some 12-year-old, maybe I am wrong, but I am guessing that you would not defend this one.

That is probably why the client people won't come around.


That's terrible.







Thanks so much for still taking the time to be involved.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


i'm crossing my fingers in the hopes it'll be roughly 50% better than sandy bridge,hope that isn't aiming too high


That depends.

In multi-threaded, you're not aiming too high.

In single-threaded, that's very unrealistic.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


That would be pretty astounding to be honest, not that it couldn't be done but that seems like a pretty steep expectation. I'm hoping to be on par or 5-15% better clock for clock.


If BD is even on par with SB clock for clock it is massive win (unless it's stuck below 3GHz like Phenom).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


So, you are going to sell your AMD CPU and Motherboard and go with SB. If you want the full functionality of BullDozer you would have to sell off your CPU and motherboard anyway, I don't understand your logic here.


This.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


Breaking news

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...the-issue.aspx

The aricle basically refutes the notion that GF has had Yield issues with BD. There have been yield issues getting GPU and CPU integration with Llano however. Nothing jaw dropping but its comforting nonetheless


I don't trust anything from BSN. And I mean *anything.* Why? They've been wrong about everything they've said regarding Bulldozer.


----------



## Bloitz

Am I the only one who feels like a 7-year old girl who's getting a pony?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Am I the only one who feels like a 7-year old girl who's getting a pony?


why what did ya get?


----------



## Bloitz

Didn't get anything yet but I know what I'm going to get soon









EDIT: Oh wait, I did get something today... a short-circuited keyboard -.-


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Uncensored?


Yes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


If it's got the goods, I might just use it as my desktop background for a while







.


Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores









Right now it is a picture of the forbidden city at night from my trip last month.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


NM he said to date there are no pictures that aren't touched up.

I'm not sure if he means for bulldozer, or if he means for any AMD processor though.

Reading is hard sometimes /







\\


Everything is touched up. But bulldozer dies have been intentionally changed to obscure some details.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


If it wasn't yield issues, than what else would cause the delay we've seen? Performance?


From what I understand, the delay was due to yield issues with Llano, had to produce more Llano chips, at the expense of BD chips.

Could be completely wrong though.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores









Right now it is a picture of the forbidden city at night from my trip last month.


All 16 cores in their glory - whoo! sounds awesome







- if I remember









From the Ford GT that up on mine currently







.


----------



## Schmuckley

i concur... BSN have been wrong ..and wrong..and wrong


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Everything is touched up. But bulldozer dies have been intentionally changed to obscure some details.


Sounds like fun. Obviously you aren't going to say which, so I won't ask.









Are key features in Bulldozer under patients, and would it be possible for Intel to simply just copy cat the major aspects of the design if it truly is revolutionary?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores









Right now it is a picture of the forbidden city at night from my trip last month.



That sounds cool.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


If it wasn't yield issues, than what else would cause the delay we've seen? Performance?


thats a good question.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Everything is touched up. But bulldozer dies have been intentionally changed to obscure some details.



Thats dirty but so awesome.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


If BD is even on par with SB clock for clock it is massive win (unless it's stuck below 3GHz like Phenom).


I wholeheartedly agree. I don't expect BD to blow the lid off, sure it would be nice. But i want AMD competitive again in the mid-highend market. And if they can do that i'lll be content. That being said the amount of work they've put into keeping everything under wrap is killing me. I'm ready for it to be out as everyone else is.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes

Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores









Right now it is a picture of the forbidden city at night from my trip last month.

Everything is touched up. But bulldozer dies have been intentionally changed to obscure some details.


I would very much like this wallpaper too!! It would look fanstanding on 3 screens!! 6120x1080 FTW!!!


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


FM1 is an Athlon II with a gpu, surely you don't consider that "totally new" do you? We already had on die gpus in 2010 that didn't require a new socket.


LGA 1156 was designed to accept on die GPUs. The processors just happened to come out a few months after the socket was introduced. Intel would not have been able to do on-die GPUs on LGA775 or LGA1366, much the same AMD couldn't do it on AM2 and AM3. None of these sockets were designed for it.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes

Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores










It would be so awesome if I could have that wallpaper too.








I'll be sure to remind you as well.


----------



## Canis-X

Wow, one hour has passed and no posts....I hear crickets!! LOL


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14764349*
> Wow, one hour has passed and no posts....I hear crickets!! LOL


I hate when that happens..


----------



## gregory121295

Kinda sucks that socket am3+ is doa because of fm2. Let's hope it at least has a fighting chance against Sandy Bridge.


----------



## StarDestroyer

tommorw we can wait for new release delay date

but probably sept 19


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14764676*
> OoooK


Wow, tough crowd.....my bad.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregory121295;14764691*
> Kinda sucks that socket am3+ is doa because of fm2. Let's hope it at least has a fighting chance against Sandy Bridge.


Not to be too critical of AMD but if if the last two major releases have shed light on anything, we might not see the BD refresh at the time AMD says it will.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregory121295;14764691*
> Kinda sucks that socket am3+ is doa because of fm2. Let's hope it at least has a fighting chance against Sandy Bridge.


i wouldnt exactly call it DOA, it should have at least a year of shelf life before FM2 hits the scene, and AMD may well alter their roadmap to reflect the delay of BD and keep a normal interval between BD and BD-E. Regardless, as has been recently brought out in this thread, Intel is notorious for socket switching, that doesnt make their CPUs DOA. I cant see BD-E getting to launch any earlier than Q3 of 2012 anyway.


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14765211*
> i wouldnt exactly call it DOA, it should have at least a year of shelf life before FM2 hits the scene, and AMD may well alter their roadmap to reflect the delay of BD and keep a normal interval between BD and BD-E. Regardless, as has been recently brought out in this thread, Intel is notorious for socket switching, that doesnt make their CPUs DOA. I cant see BD-E getting to launch any earlier than Q3 of 2012 anyway.


Can someone link me where/who says BD-E will absolutely need FM2.
Can't seem to find it anywhere.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

OK AMD said 60 - 90 days....what if that was 60 - 90 Business days?


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14765509*
> Can someone link me where/who says BD-E will absolutely need FM2.
> Can't seem to find it anywhere.


here ya go


----------



## hazarada

Soo... the 60-90 days went on display in may 31, as of right now it is day 88


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14765526*
> OK AMD said 60 - 90 days....what if that was 60 - 90 Business days?


Very good point.


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14765551*
> here ya go
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i97251_dektop-roadmap-2012-2.jpg
> http://motherboardnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/amd2012.png


Thanks for linking.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Is it true that bulldozer will be released Sept 19th?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

October 4th would be day 90 if they meant business days.


----------



## Evil Penguin

60 to 90 days is pretty much up.
Today was the last day.
Perhaps they did mean business days.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14765694*
> Is it true that bulldozer will be released Sept 19th?


Time will tell.
There is no official release date.
It could be the 6th or the 19th through 22nd.


----------



## narmour

Bulldozer will be Q1 2012.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14765551*
> here ya go


Ooooooooooooooooooooo, am I seeing this right? What "IF" socket FMx could run BD-E AND the A series APUs? That would be a great platform.


----------



## Naturecannon

OK AMD, this is the BD thread and the 90 days is up from the June 1st announcement. If one was to make use of this thread......... now is the time!!!

Any explanation after the BIG in our face delay display? I knew they would fail to deliver once again.

















Best be some pretty impressive performance data and well above SB to make up for this fiasco.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14765526*
> OK AMD said 60 - 90 days....what if that was 60 - 90 Business days?


Hmm, I have to pay my mortgage every 30 days, maybe they meant 30 business days


----------



## Tweeky

Oh my! Has it been 60-90 days already?


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14765599*
> Soo... the 60-90 days went on display in may 31, as of right now it is day 88


NO, May 31st would be generous and at 91 days.
Today is 90, look for yourself http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=06&d1=01&y1=2011&type=add&ay=&am=&ad=90&aw=

I understand sheet happens but not a peep after the 90 day announcement!!! pure crap


----------



## Slappy Mcgee




----------



## Evil Penguin

Oh ohhhh! I know!
60-90 weekend days!


----------



## Tyreal

*scratches chin* *ponders* FM*x*
Do we really think Deccan(Wichita APU) will be a whole new socket(FT2 BGA)? rumored for at minimal announcement in 2012
Would AMD really "Ditch" AM3+ so hastily
im guessing here, along with the rest of us.... Perhaps BD-E is AM3+ and BD-NG(Komodo) is FM2
This, imo, would bring Wichita to a socket that is already available... FM1

This would then bring things inline... FM1 for APU FM2(hudson D4 FCH) for CPU.
*scratches chin* *ponders*


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14765897*
> NO, May 31st would be generous and at 91 days.
> Today is 90, look for yourself http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=06&d1=01&y1=2011&type=add&ay=&am=&ad=90&aw=
> 
> I understand sheet happens but not a peep after the 90 day announcement!!! pure crap












of course...there is always tomorrow







gonna wait it out.....whats 1 more day?


----------



## Naturecannon

Also note: The AMD display did not say "I think" or "in my opinion" 60-90 days. It was Fact, right??


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Well the display did also state late summer 2011.....they have until Sept 23rd


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14765971*
> Also note: The AMD display did not say "I think" or "in my opinion" 60-90 days. It was Fact, right??


I don't recall hearing AMD make that statement, where did that slide originate from again?


----------



## Usario

AMD, if you do not at the very least do a PAPER LAUNCH tomorrow, I'm putting an Intel machine in my sig.

BULLDOZER, Y U NO BE RELEASED?


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14765708*
> 60 to 90 days is pretty much up.
> Today was the last day.
> Perhaps they did mean business days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time will tell.
> There is no official release date.
> It could be the 6th or the 19th through 22nd.


I just built a new AM3+ rig and I havent chosen a CPU yet because I dont want to spend 120 dollars on a 955 black then a week or two later bulldozer is released. I wish their was a release date so i knew.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14766049*
> I just built a new AM3+ rig and I havent chosen a CPU yet because I dont want to spend 120 dollars on a 955 black then a week or two later bulldozer is released. I wish their was a release date so i knew.


If you really want to fire that machine up soon, perhaps you should get an OEM Sempron for now. They cost, what, $25 on Newegg? They unlock into Athlon II X2s, also.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Yeah I thought about that. I just need a temp CPU till Bulldozer. I would hate to see this Rig sitting here not doing anything for a few weeks


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14766026*
> I don't recall hearing AMD make that statement, where did that slide originate from again?


AMD showed the slide at Computex 2011.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I think they would (replacing AM3+).
AM# is pretty much a dead end.
FMx has video integration and other things as well.


----------



## Tyreal

Bulldozer Release Date

Man thats a LOOOONG time from now.....

/end silly humor


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14766250*
> I dont get it..


*sigh* release date doesnt fall between 0 - 1,460,605 days


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14766026*
> I don't recall hearing AMD make that statement, where did that slide originate from again?


"I think" and "my opinion" was a Jab at earlier comments. AMD jumps in here to comment on assumptions and prefer "I think" and "My opinion" be used when commenting on Bulldozer. Yet cant live up to their own Fact nor give an explanation to the followers after BD being delayed countless times.

If you cant give answers or give explanations on days promised, dont expect one not to assume or speculate. *Double standard* is what its all about.


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14766278*
> So, Bulldozer's probably coming out sometime in 6013 then? I think that's not impossible.


Perhaps my humor is a bit.. odd


----------



## Hartk1213

i havent read through the entire thread so i dont know if this as been asked yet but does anyone know the price or have an idea of what the BDs will cost??


----------



## Bayinghound

Still eagerly waiting, any info would be great.

Really anticipated for whatever is in store for us this month. Hopefully not another delay. 
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hartk1213;14766328*
> i havent read through the entire thread so i dont know if this as been asked yet but does anyone know the price or have an idea of what the BDs will cost??


The 8 core zambezi chip is going to be around $300. I'd dig up an article, but a little too lazy. P:


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hartk1213;14766328*
> i havent read through the entire thread so i dont know if this as been asked yet but does anyone know the price or have an idea of what the bds will cost??


fx-8150 = $320
fx-8120 = $290
fx-6120 = $240
fx-4120 = $190


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14766270*
> "I think" and "my opinion" was a Jab at earlier comments. AMD jumps in here to comment on assumptions and prefer "I think" and "My opinion" be used when commenting on Bulldozer. Yet cant live up to their own Fact nor give an explanation to the followers after BD being delayed countless times.
> 
> If you cant give answers or give explanations on days promised, dont expect one not to assume or speculate. *Double standard* is what its all about.


I am not thrilled that AMD can't make a deadline that they set a mere three months ago, BUT the slides do say "scheduled" to be available. A schedule can change so they have an out. Egg on AMD's face again for sure, but no real reason to rip AMD or JF on the wording of the slide.

.....but I am still concerned that in so little time AMD is capable of having yet another "schedule slip".....*sigh*


----------



## Naturecannon

Check out the Video. Starting at 4:08 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbIboX36Lhs[/ame]


----------



## catharsis

nvm i got beat to it


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14766462*
> Check out the Video. Starting at 4:08


People on my side of the world are at work now







-- so I can't view the clip. If you where trying to counter my post with the video then please just type out your point.


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14766462*
> Check out the Video. Starting at 4:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbIboX36Lhs


Strait from the horses mouth, 60-90 days. Thank you!
I really should watch these videos more often









I really dont think it is the CPU that is delaying the launch, yields or HD7xxx series or both, IMO


----------



## Tatakai All

I can smell Bulldozer it's so close, my rig on the brink of being complete.


----------



## Evil Penguin

All of the FX editions have an unlocked multiplier.
I don't see why there would be two oct-core versions with different clock speeds (immediately available after launch).


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14766618*
> I can smell Bulldozer it's so close, my rig on the brink of being complete.


gonna be a kickin system.

What i can;t wait for / hope to come... Piledriver cores HD 7xxx series APU, crossfired with a HD7990..


----------



## BrEnKeR

Should I wait for the 1000 series chipset to release or should I get a 900 series?


----------



## chrystal

zzz all this waiting game, makes me bored.

brenker: are they going for a 1000series this "soon" to release bulldozer?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14766723*
> Should I wait for the 1000 series chipset to release or should I get a 900 series?


900 series.
Never play the waiting game when it comes to computer tech (unless release is super close).


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrystal;14766732*
> zzz all this waiting game, makes me bored.
> 
> brenker: are they going for a 1000series this "soon" to release bulldozer?


I don't know, but AMD is not officially supporting Bulldozer on AM3 platforms. I think some features may not work. So I'm wondering if there will be a 1000 series chipset with official AM3+ support or official AM3+ socket. I don't know much about that.


----------



## Stilldawn

Hi All

Been outta touch for a the last two months...

Any more news on this? Release, performance, price etc?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stilldawn;14766818*
> Hi All
> 
> Been outta touch for a the last two months...
> 
> Any more news on this? Release, performance, price etc?


8 core BD is worth around 300 dollars.
BD desktop CPUs will likely be release mid September.
No performance numbers yet.


----------



## xd_1771

*Enough with the duck jokes, enough with the date jokes. On-topic Bulldozer discussion only please.*


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stilldawn;14766818*
> Hi All
> 
> Been outta touch for a the last two months...
> 
> Any more news on this? Release, performance, price etc?


Still waiting. I'm hoping FX4xxx performance is nice. I have no use for a 6 or 8 core


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14766680*
> All of the FX editions have an unlocked multiplier.
> I don't see why there would be two oct-core versions with different clock speeds (immediately available after launch).


Binning and TDP

8150s might OC incredibly better than 8120s


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14766972*
> Binning and TDP
> 
> 8150s might OC incredibly better than 8120s


95w will probably go to the 6 core FX BD or an 8 core BD with lower clock speeds (locked multi).

So unless there will be an 8 core BD that has a 140w TDP, I don't see why they would have two FX 8 core CPUs *at launch*.


----------



## chrystal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14766806*
> I don't know, but AMD is not officially supporting Bulldozer on AM3 platforms. I think some features may not work. So I'm wondering if there will be a 1000 series chipset with official AM3+ support or official AM3+ socket. I don't know much about that.


when I watched a video about the bulldozer, AMD stated that AM3+ is for bulldozer and can use old AM3 cpus.
900series chip is for AM3+ , 800 for AM3


----------



## proximo

The slide he's showing also says "Late summer 2011" in the Zambezi column. That gives them a little over 3 weeks before they are "late".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14766616*
> Strait from the horses mouth, 60-90 days. Thank you!
> I really should watch these videos more often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really dont think it is the CPU that is delaying the launch, yields or HD7xxx series or both, IMO


----------



## Droogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14766887*
> Still waiting. I'm hoping FX4xxx performance is nice. I have no use for a 6 or 8 core


This is OCN. "Use for" is irrelevant.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14766806*
> I don't know, but AMD is not officially supporting Bulldozer on AM3 platforms. I think some features may not work. So I'm wondering if there will be a 1000 series chipset with official AM3+ support or official AM3+ socket. I don't know much about that.


Per Asus, the AM3+ sockets will accommodate a BD chip and are being marketed as "Bulldozer Ready"

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7YSsEFqTk&feature=player_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7YSsEFqTk&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7YSsEFqTk&feature=player_embedded[/ame[/URL]]

If you are looking to get a BD at release anything with a 990FX chipset will meet your needs.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Droogie;14767432*
> This is OCN. "Use for" is irrelevant.


Actually what made overclocking fun a while back was buying the cheapest processor and overclocking the heck out of it. Now it's like, Intel has made it so you really can't OC their lower end i5/i7 processors. This is why I like AMD.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14767503*
> Per Asus, the AM3+ sockets will accommodate a BD chip and are being marketed as "Bulldozer Ready"
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7YSsEFqTk&feature=player_embedded
> 
> If you are looking to get a BD at release anything with a 990FX chipset will meet your needs.


Not if you need a bulldozer supported matx motherboard.


----------



## Usario

AMD, you have 16 minutes remaining.

If you do not launch Bulldozer, I will be forced to put an Intel machine in my sig rig.

What, you say? That means nothing?

That means everything.

The sig rig determines everything about the user.

And AMD, if you do not deliver, you will have ruined me.

That is, until you actually release Bulldozer.


----------



## Swiftdeathz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14767503*
> Per Asus, the AM3+ sockets will accommodate a BD chip and are being marketed as "Bulldozer Ready"
> 
> If you are looking to get a BD at release anything with a 990FX chipset will meet your needs.


880G also should work fine, not sure if other 880 chipsets will also support bulldozer right off the bat.


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14766799*
> Never play the waiting game when it comes to computer tech (unless release is super close).


Bah. I bought a 1090T _last week_, even with FX "_this close_"


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14764349*
> Wow, one hour has passed and no posts....I hear crickets!! LOL


I know, I missed primetime before the mods cleaned up shop ( i am sure it was needed! ). some PM me what happened?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14767078*
> 95w will probably go to the 6 core FX BD or an 8 core BD with lower clock speeds (locked multi).
> 
> So unless there will be an 8 core BD that has a 140w TDP, I don't see why they would have two FX 8 core CPUs *at launch*.


Price. Not everyone has the extra 20$ to spend at launch and 20$x10000 for OEMs makes a big difference. They could be the same exact chip, different labels and it would still work







. It's not very good business practice, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768424*
> AMD, you have 16 minutes remaining.
> 
> If you do not launch Bulldozer, I will be forced to put an Intel machine in my sig rig.
> 
> What, you say? That means nothing?
> 
> That means everything.
> 
> The sig rig determines everything about the user.
> 
> And AMD, if you do not deliver, you will have ruined me.
> 
> That is, until you actually release Bulldozer.


Here's what I think is going to happen and it's not yet "Sept 1st" on the eastern US:

Bulldozer, if it's going to be released today, it will be announced around 4-8 pm.

If it's not going to be released or announced by Friday, it won't be announced till Sept-Oct, and then it will be so good it will make you want to smack you parental units with a fish. And then you'll want to buy another one


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768424*
> AMD, you have 16 minutes remaining.
> 
> If you do not launch Bulldozer, I will be forced to put an Intel machine in my sig rig.
> 
> What, you say? That means nothing?
> 
> That means everything.
> 
> The sig rig determines everything about the user.
> 
> And AMD, if you do not deliver, you will have ruined me.
> 
> That is, until you actually release Bulldozer.


It's past 12 a.m., and you still have an AMD sig rig.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14768657*
> It's past 12 a.m., and you still have an AMD sig rig.


Funny how I changed it right when you posted that.

I would put my MacBook Pro in my sig rig, but I'd get flamed until I turn into ash for having a Mac.

So I'm using an old P4 rig that hasn't even been used in... how long has it been... 4 years? It wasn't even my main system when I built it, Athlon 64 FTW!

But this is what I had to do.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768678*
> Funny how I changed it right when you posted that.
> 
> I would put my MacBook Pro in my sig rig, but I'd get flamed until I turn into ash for having a Mac.
> 
> So I'm using an old P4 rig that hasn't even been used in... how long has it been... 4 years? It wasn't even my main system when I built it, Athlon 64 FTW!
> 
> But this is what I had to do.


The MBP still has an Intel CPU doesn't it? That's an even deeper dark side around here.









I've got a couple P4 parts if you want them, so you can improve your rig a little.

I also never let go of my Athlon 64! It used to be my main computer for a few years.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14768685*
> The MCP still has an Intel CPU doesn't it?
> 
> I've got a couple P4 parts if you want them, so you can improve your rig a little.
> 
> I also never let go of my Athlon 64! It used to be my main computer for a few years.


By MCP, you mean MBP? Yeah, it's Intel and (when I bought mine at least) NVIDIA, but I just can't have a Mac in my sig rig. It's grounds for stoning on most of the web









The rig in my sig is... well... I don't even know if it boots anymore







thanks for the offer though


----------



## Tatakai All

A lot of drama queens in this thread.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768708*
> By MCP, you mean MBP? Yeah, it's Intel and (when I bought mine at least) NVIDIA, but I just can't have a Mac in my sig rig. It's grounds for stoning on most of the web
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rig in my sig is... well... I don't even know if it boots anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for the offer though


Of course I meant MBP.







Speaking of spelling mistakes, it's Pentium 4 "*Prescott*"









Having Apple as a sig rig is definitely grounds for stoning on OCN, but it would be more fun.

The lack of Bulldozer availability has turned you into the darkest sides of tech.

I can't believe AMD has done this to you.









JF look at what some AMD fans have turned to, surely you can help them by letting them know when Bulldozer will be available for purchase.


----------



## thenerdal

Quick. Someone update me. Bulldozer is releasing today?


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768678*
> Funny how I changed it right when you posted that.


It is only 9:30p on the West Coast, where is your optimism?!?!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14768685*
> The MBP still has an Intel CPU doesn't it? That's an even deeper dark side around here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple P4 parts if you want them, so you can improve your rig a little.
> 
> I also never let go of my Athlon 64! It used to be my main computer for a few years.


My son uses my old Athlon 64 as a daily machine- OEM and still running like a champ







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14768731*
> A lot of drama queens in this thread.


This coming from a man that is showing his pecs in his avatar? on a tech forum?

ooo la la







:wubsmiley:wubsmiley
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;14768837*
> It is only 9:30p on the West Coast, where is your optimism?!?!


5-8pm, pics or it didn't happen!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14768787*
> Of course I meant MBP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of spelling mistakes, it's Pentium 4 "*Prescott*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having Apple as a sig rig is definitely grounds for stoning on OCN, but it would be more fun.
> 
> The lack of Bulldozer availability has turned you into the darkest sides of tech.
> 
> I can't believe AMD has done this to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JF look at what some AMD fans have turned to, surely you can help them by letting them know when Bulldozer will be available for purchase.


This entire post had me laughing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14768832*
> Quick. Someone update me. Bulldozer is releasing today?


No, but AMD said "60-90 days" on June 1st and that time's up.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14768947*
> This entire post had me laughing.
> 
> No, but AMD said "60-90 days" on June 1st and that time's up.


I am so excited then!!!!!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14768972*
> I am so excited then!!!!!


No, don't be. It's only time for another delay.

Rumor says NDA lifts Sept 6, though.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769002*
> No, don't be. It's only time for another delay.
> 
> Rumor says NDA lifts Sept 6, though.










Why must AMD do this to us?!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14769007*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why must AMD do this to us?!


Oh well. Let's just hope that the NDA actually does lift in a week, and that Bulldozer actually was worth the wait.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usario;14769022*
> oh well. Let's just hope that the nda actually does lift in a week, and that bulldozer actually was worth the wait.


nda?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14769075*
> nda?


Non disclosure agreement.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769091*
> Non disclosure agreement.


Thanks!


----------



## TCOC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769022*
> Oh well. Let's just hope that the NDA actually does lift in a week, and that Bulldozer actually was worth the wait.


Don't think we would be seeing the 50 dollar 840's or the free motherboard with AMD CPU purchase ads if Bulldozer sucked.

I am guessing REV. 1 of BD will be on par with a i7. REV. 2 might take a leap....


----------



## LesPaulLover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14766833*
> 8 core BD is worth around 300 dollars.
> BD desktop CPUs will likely be release mid September.
> No performance numbers yet.


And likely drop in price AFTER the holiday season and into next spring as new editions are released.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TCOC;14769123*
> Don't think we would be seeing the 50 dollar 840's or the free motherboard with AMD CPU purchase ads if Bulldozer sucked.
> 
> I am guessing REV. 1 of BD will be on par with a i7. REV. 2 might take a leap....


i7 is pretty general... you could be talking about the i7 860, 2600k, or 990X.

I _think_ Bulldozer will beat all of Intel's current desktop CPUs in heavily multithreaded programs; the real uncertainty is single-threaded.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769137*
> i7 is pretty general... you could be talking about the i7 860, 2600k, or 990X.
> 
> I _think_ Bulldozer will beat all of Intel's current desktop CPUs in heavily multithreaded programs; *the real uncertainty is single-threaded*.


Im digging the atalics.

this is for the bolded pard:


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769137*
> i7 is pretty general... you could be talking about the i7 860, 2600k, or 990X.
> 
> I _think_ Bulldozer will beat all of Intel's current desktop CPUs in heavily multithreaded programs; the real uncertainty is single-threaded.


Thats where i want to see it be equal with SB. By design we're to assume that it will be one hell of a chip multithreaded wise. Single threaded performance though i'm also very interested in.


----------



## Naturecannon

According to Lenzfire

OEMs first and manufacturing Second (of course)...........but get this
Quote:


> AMD finally plans to send its microprocessor architecture Interlagos Bulldozer, its variants (for servers and workstations) Zambezi (for desktops) this week. Initially it will come at the hands of OEMs, system integrators, and then their distribution channels, this is the usual order for the equipment manufacturers. AMD Bulldozer will be officially launched during the second half of September, which coincides with the suggested date September 19, which we have already discussed along with the specifications of Bulldozer, which AMD discreetly displayed during the event Comic Com 2011.
> 
> Yet some analysts still have doubts about the capacity of AMD to have a sufficient number of units for sale to the general public within those dates, so some believe that AMD may delay the launch date of Bulldozer until November, a date that would coincide with the launch of Sandy Bridge-E Intel. Others argue that AMD roadmap points to Q3 of this year as the release date of Bulldozer, and the last 2 weeks of September is the last chance for AMD to meet their release schedule.


If true, no Bulldozer until November. Sounds like you may be possibly getting trick or treaters at your door this year before you do BD.

If release is in November, I heard AMD will throw in a free Turkey or Ham with BD purchase for your Thanksgiving dinner. A gesture of thanks for waiting patiently for years


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14769263*
> According to Lenzfire
> 
> OEMs first and manufacturing Second (of course)...........but get this
> 
> If true, no Bulldozer until November. Sounds like you may be possibly getting trick or treaters at your door this year before you do BD.
> 
> If release is in November, I heard AMD will throw in a free Turkey or Ham with BD purchase for your Thanksgiving dinner. A gesture of thanks for waiting patiently for years


Hell "Southern Islands" would be around the corner by then...a nice discount or just a free GPU (preferably a 7870) would be epic... /wishful thinking


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14769260*
> Thats where i want to see it be equal with SB. By design we're to assume that it will be one hell of a chip multithreaded wise. Single threaded performance though i'm also very interested in.


At this point we can only dream.

Based on the architecture though it's likely to be around Nehalem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14769263*
> According to Lenzfire
> 
> OEMs first and manufacturing Second (of course)...........but get this
> 
> If true, no Bulldozer until November. Sounds like you may be possibly getting trick or treaters at your door this year before you do BD.
> 
> If release is in November, I heard AMD will throw in a free Turkey or Ham with BD purchase for your Thanksgiving dinner. A gesture of thanks for waiting patiently for years


I know JF doesn't comment on rumors, but I'd really love it if he could tell us that this is fake. Because that's just... really saddening to hear.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14760064*
> Read his signature....that is coming from John not from AMD, and furthermore, the reason for the statement has been earned time and time again.....just look at all of the mod clean up posts in this thread.


He represents amd in this forum. His opinions may be his own but he still represents amd


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14769347*
> He represents amd in this forum. His opinions may be his own but he still represents amd


----------



## thenerdal

So not until November then?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14769448*
> So not until November then?


Before we start panicking and running around screaming "OMG BULLDOZER IS DELAYED ANOTHER QUARTER AMD IS TROLLING U ALL BD DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST I'M BUYING INTEL FOREVER AHH!" let's consider that the two very likely dates of September 6 and September 19 have not yet come to pass.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769357*


My point being if your going to be the guy on the inside that comes with certain responsibilities. Mainly having thick skin.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14769490*
> My point being if your going to be the guy on the inside that comes with certain responsibilities. Mainly having thick skin.


If he comes back here after all the crap that people have said to him then he definitely has pretty thick skin.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14769463*
> Before we start panicking and running around screaming "OMG BULLDOZER IS DELAYED ANOTHER QUARTER AMD IS TROLLING U ALL BD DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST I'M BUYING INTEL FOREVER AHH!" let's consider that the two very likely dates of September 6 and September 19 have not yet come to pass.


This great. I got to sig this. Your hope is epic. I think they are going to release it before the end of September though.

Damn it my hope is epic as well!


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14768888*
> This coming from a man that is showing his pecs in his avatar? on a tech forum?ooo la la
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :wubsmiley:wubsmiley


I got bored waiting for BD so I upgraded my own hardware.


----------



## hazarada

i predict it will launch in december, next year


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14769626*
> i predict it will launch in december, next year


troll fail


----------



## Hartk1213

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14766351*
> fx-8150 = $320
> fx-8120 = $290
> fx-6120 = $240
> fx-4120 = $190


Thank you!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jared2608

JF has taken so much abuse lately, here and on his own blog, that if he ever even looks at a client product again, let alone posts here the champagne will most likely fall from the heavens....


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hartk1213;14769813*
> Thank you!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


Just so you know, those are rumored prices. ( Though they are 80% accurate is my guess. )

Pricing hasn't been officially confirmed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14769830*
> JF has taken so much abuse lately, here and on his own blog, that if he ever even looks at a client product again, let alone posts here the champagne will most likely fall from the heavens....


Yea true, I try to keep things civilized with him. We gotta remember that he works for AMD, but he's not responsible for when Bulldozer ACTUALLY launches. Plus he's under NDA's which could lead him to losing his job, so why would he want to jeopardize that?


----------



## yoshi245

/sigh BD..

NDA needs to be lifted already.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14769830*
> JF has taken so much abuse lately, here and on his own blog, that if he ever even looks at a client product again, let alone posts here the champagne will most likely fall from the heavens....


He's a big boy, he can handle it


----------



## Jared2608

I'm sure he can handle it, but why should he. He doesn't even handle the client side, the guys that do most probably aren't interested in giving us anything, thanks to some peoples fantastic attitudes. I would have written this whole thing off long ago if I was him...


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14769881*
> I'm sure he can handle it, but why should he. He doesn't even handle the client side, the guys that do most probably aren't interested in giving us anything, thanks to some peoples fantastic attitudes. I would have written this whole thing off long ago if I was him...


Because he wants to. It's not like he's giving us any info anyway.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14769881*
> I'm sure he can handle it, but why should he.


He chose to be the customer-company PR/interface person.

While the company is not delivering, he gets some slapping, I think it is perfectly normal and expectable.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14769939*
> He chose to be the the customer-company PR/interface person.
> 
> While the company is not delivering, he gets some slapping, I think it is perfectly normal and expectable.


This is what I've been getting at


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14769920*
> Because he wants to. It's not like he's giving us any info anyway.


What information where you expecting?

If your answer is benchmarks, prices, clock speeds, SKUs, or a launch date then you are in the wrong place. I also suggest you read the first post again.


----------



## Hogwasher

He was crying about the so called twelve year olds. My point is it comes with the territory of having delayed the product. Then being tight lipped with information. You are undoubtedly going to get frustrated people


----------



## JCPUser

I will just say this.

There is a mature way and an immature way of handling being frustrated. Flaming the messenger is something I would put in the latter category. Thus I can definitely understand why he made the "12 year olds" comment.

I would much rather have JF here to dispel whatever rumors and crap benchmarks that he can (while not violating the NDA) then to have him stay away because of childish posts.


----------



## Hogwasher

Agreed


----------



## Jared2608

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


I will just say this.

There is a mature way and an immature way of handling being frustrated. Flaming the messenger is something I would put in the latter category. Thus I can definitely understand why he made the "12 year olds" comment.

I would much rather have JF here to dispel whatever rumors and crap benchmarks that he can (while not violating the NDA) then to have him stay away because of childish posts.


This.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Rumor sites will be rumor sites. 
There are no signs of BD being delayed to November. 
September seems like the most likely launch window.


----------



## lan cable garrotte string

Hope whichever review sites review Bulldozer, "bench" some BF3 beta multiplayer - and BD SLI + BF3.


----------



## hazarada

this thread would be so much more effective if we implanted a shock device in whoever is in charge of getting BD out, that zaps the victim every time a post is made in this thread

and btw there never was any useful information in this thread. Its 50% troll tears, 40% speculation based on nothing and 10% PR bull.. so why pretend like this thread has standards


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14770813*
> this thread would be so much more effective if we implanted a shock device in whoever is in charge of getting BD out, that zaps the victim every time a post is made in this thread
> 
> and btw there never was any useful information in this thread. Its 50% troll tears, 40% speculation based on nothing and 10% PR bull.. so why pretend like this thread has standards


i cannot say i disagree with that. But there has been some useful info from this thread. Percentage wise, very little yes, but i think this thread is more of a blog designed to stop all of those other stupid BD threads from popping up. So we get a lot of BS here. And it has cut down on those daily "look at this BD first released cpu-z" type of articles.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14770795*
> Lol, Im sorry if it came across as name calling. I was saying that if you expect him to say more, knowing his situation, then you are a moron. I also do not think you clearly understand the situation he is in, so if i had to guess you are not a moron. That is also the reason we have not heard of any new details recently. look at "*2010rig*" sig of his comment and you will see the famous, "no news till launch date quote" or whatever it says.
> 
> Edit: If there is one main thing you can get from this thread is that all those stupid fake benches of BD are just that, fake. That is not what BD will be when it is released. Ill bet my left arm on that.


I understand the situation he is in. The fact remains we have no way to really know what's fake or real. The response we usually get is no information until release or it's not representative of BULLDOZER.

Edit : by the way I may have been defensive


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


I understand the situation he is in. The fact remains we have no way to really know what's fake or real. The response we usually get is no information until release or it's not representative of BULLDOZER.

Edit : by the way I may have been defensive 


We are all on the defensive right now. We all have the " show me something!' attitude right now. Hopefully we see something soon. I hate to have to sale off my CHV for a good SB board. I just dont want to even think of going through the process.


----------



## HK_47

whats with all the AM3+ bashing I've seen on these forums lately, people are saying that the 2nd gen bulldozer (4120, 6120, 8120, 8170) is not going to am3+, which is complete rubbish, AMD isn't moving to FM2 until Trinity And Komodo (Which will share the same socket) 
people really need to learn to read the AMD roadmap


----------



## Jared2608

What I was wondering is, when they launch the FM2 Socket, and the Komodo chips, will they stop making chips for the AM3+ socket, or will they still make new chips on the same architecture?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14770986*
> whats with all the AM3+ bashing I've seen on these forums lately, people are saying that the 2nd gen bulldozer (4120, 6120, 8120, 8170) is not going to am3+, which is complete rubbish, AMD isn't moving to FM2 until Trinity And Komodo (Which will share the same socket)
> people really need to learn to read the AMD roadmap


Well it has changed to the 4110, 6110, 8110, 8150. And that has never been disputed to work with AM3+. Its the BD-E chip that is going to a new socket.
Quote:


> What I was wondering is, when they launch the FM2 Socket, and the Komodo chips, will they stop making chips for the AM3+ socket, or will they still make new chips on the same architecture?


The original BD map listed an initial release of BD chips then another release months later of lesser, and more powerful chips. Not sure if this is still the plan though.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14771006*
> Well it has changed to the 4110, 6110, 8110, 8150. And that has never been disputed. Its the BD-E chip that is going to a new socket.


were not talking about Sandy Bridge-E here, I assume by Bulldozer-E you mean Piledriver (aka komodo) the 10 core chip. Bulldozers Entire Lifespan will be on AM3+, There's only one other socket on the roadmap and thats not for bulldozer.... the roadmap clearly says Komodo and Trinity are FM2, States nothing of a "Bulldozer-E" I'm talking about what has been confirmed by AMD not rumors spread around forums.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


were not talking about Sandy Bridge-E here, I assume by Bulldozer-E you mean Piledriver (aka komodo) the 10 core chip. Bulldozers Entire Lifespan will be on AM3+, There's only one other socket on the roadmap and thats not for bulldozer.... the roadmap clearly says Komodo and Trinity are FM2, States nothing of a "Bulldozer-E" I'm talking about what has been confirmed by AMD not rumors spread around forums.


Lol, I actually agree with that statement. I HATE to here BD -E thrown around. Because in fact it is SB-E that is a new chip for Intel, but for some reason people on this thread have been using the term BD-E. It is in fact Komodo. Not BD-E. It figures the first time i use the term its to someone that hates it as much as me. Yes "Komodo" is planned for FM2, but as far as I know all the 8xxx series chips will be BD. There also should be lesser BD chips, 4100, 6100 8100 released as well at some point.


----------



## HK_47

lol no worries fellow Crosshair V owner, Just Becomes Confusing as hell when people start making up names for things, It makes sense SB-E and Komodo are competition, but I might as well start calling SB-E Monitor Dragon LOL


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Lol, I actually agree with that statement. I HATE to here BD -E thrown around. Because in fact it is SB-E that is a new chip for Intel, but for some reason people on this thread have been using the term BD-E. It is in fact Komodo. Not BD-E. It figures the first time i use the term its to someone that hates it as much as me. Yes "Komodo" is planned for FM2, but as far as I know all the 8xxx series chips will be BD. There also should be lesser BD chips, 4100, 6100 8100 released as well at some point.


They call it BD-E because of this


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


lol no worries fellow Crosshair V owner, Just Becomes Confusing as hell when people start making up names for things, It makes sense SB-E and Komodo are competition, but I might as well start calling SB-E Monitor Dragon LOL


Yeah, not to mention i realized i misspoke to your original post. Just didnt feel like going back and editing. I started naming the original names of the BD chips when you were talking about the future releases. Oh well. We got there in the long run. i think we are safe that they will release plenty of 8xxx series chips for Bulldozer, as for FM2 not sure, and not wanting to speculate at the time.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


They call it BD-E because of this











Yeah but where is that from? Let Bulldozer be released first. But according to all kinds of fake BD benchmarks out there i guess they arent gonna do that.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14771094*
> Yeah but where is that from? Let Bulldozer be released first. But according to all kinds of fake BD benchmarks out there i guess they arent gonna do that.


I forget where thats from but its been around for awhile.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I forget where thats from but its been around for awhile.


Still even BD-E has the code name of Komodo either way. Bulldozer now, Komodo later.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


They call it BD-E because of this











thats just a very broad outlook, obviously future chips are going to use improved bulldozer architecture, look at the Amd K architecture, Were Currently on K10. The Detailed Roadmap has a codename for the 2012 Enhanced Chip, Its Called Komodo, Featuring "Piledriver" cores and Turbo Core 3.0. 
upon initial bulldozer release AMD is shipping out the 4100, 6100,8100,8150. then in Q1 2012 They Will Release 4120,6120,8120,8170.(the second series of Bulldozer Chips.)


----------



## Blameless

If Komodo and Trinity are 2012, and they will be FM2, doesn't that pretty much confirm that AM3+ is a 12-18 month socket, at best?

4120, 6120, 8120, 8170 aren't second generation Bulldozers. A second release, sure, but a significant architecture revision, or even a die shrink? I don't think so. Maybe they will be a new stepping.

Calling these chips second gen Bulldozers is like calling the i7 930, 950, and 960 second gen Nehalems.

When someone speaks of the second generation of Bulldozer, they are probably refering to Komodo and Trinity.

I do agree completely about the "BD-E" misnomer; it's just confusing and useless.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;14771211*
> If Komodo and Trinity are 2012, and they will be FM2, doesn't that pretty much confirm that AM3+ is a 12-18 month socket, at best?


Yeah that's been pretty much a given for awhile now since that roadmap came out.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


Yeah that's been pretty much a given for awhile now since that roadmap came out.


Even well before the roadmap it looked like AM3+ would be an interim solution.

Afterall, The Future is Fusion. AM3+ doesn't have the pins to physically support an IGP, and maintaining two incompatable consumer sockets sockets never seemed like a good idea in the long run.

The only real question I have on the topic is whether FM2 will finally be LGA.


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


The only real question I have on the topic is whether FM2 will finally be LGA.


I hope so. I'm sick of the pins


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I hope so. I'm sick of the pins


I'm not. I don't want to buy a new board because I bent pins in there. I won't need to if I bend pins on the CPU, they are easily fixed.


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


I'm not. I don't want to buy a new board because I bent pins in there. I won't need to if I bend pins on the CPU, they are easily fixed.


I've had a lot of LGA boards and i've never bent a pin on the socket itself. Its nearly impossible


----------



## linkin93

What if you accidentally drop the cpu right before putting into the socket? With LGA you have a stuffed mobo, with PGA you have a fixable stuff-up...

Though both designs are flawed in their own ways.

Something new needs to be done, like a board and CPU that have bumps and recesses rather than pins IMO


----------



## StarDestroyer

is it true that AM3 MBs will no longer support BD because AMD will sic the lawyers on MB makers that offered the bios change for that


----------



## 855211

not sure about that, but it may just be that they were breaking a NDA agreement without knowing.


----------



## Dead Meat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


my question is, is it am3 compatible or some newer socket?


Yes, and no. You can use an AM3 chip on a AM3+ board, and AM3+ chips may work on older AM3 boards as long as there is a BIOS update for it.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Oh well. Let's just hope that the NDA actually does lift in a week, and that Bulldozer actually was worth the wait.


I don't think many people were anxiously awaiting bulldozer or sandy bridge. I think most of the world's population are focused on other things.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I hope so. I'm sick of the pins


I am not too. Did you notice, that the pads are worn easily by the socket pins? You mount the same CPU few times in few different boards, and it looks like hell.

Processor with pins does not wear out and looks the same way, even if you mount it 100 times.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


He represents amd in this forum. His opinions may be his own but he still represents amd



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*












Double-


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


What if you accidentally drop the cpu right before putting into the socket?


CPU should be mounted when the motherboard is laying flat on its back. Anyone who mounts a cpu when it's in a chassis standing up is asking for trouble.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


He chose to be the customer-company PR/interface person.

While the company is not delivering, he gets some slapping, I think it is perfectly normal and expectable.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


This is what I've been getting at


Thats where I disagree with you both. He is not here to be a PR person. He is here to relay information about the new technology that is in BullDozer. You guys, IMO, are not respecting that he chose to do this on his own and just because you want to give him slack for something that he personally has no control over is borderline childish.......IMO......also bear in mind that all the slack that he is receiving could make him just not want to come back here which would ruin it for the rest of us that actually like speaking with him and hearing what information that he can discuss.

If you want to slam AMD for the delay then start your own thread and direct it towards AMD, not JF please. We are all disappointed in the delays but please note that some handle it in here much better than just the flat out rants. All I am asking is that you respect those of us that want to hear what JF has to say.

Edit: Missed the rest of the conversation.....looks like you got it worked out....my bad


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


What if you accidentally drop the cpu right before putting into the socket? With LGA you have a stuffed mobo, with PGA you have a fixable stuff-up...

Though both designs are flawed in their own ways.

Something new needs to be done, like a board and CPU that have bumps and recesses rather than pins IMO


i've often thought about that, having something closer to a BGA where there arent pins but rather 'nubs'. OTOH while we're dreaming up new socket designs you might as well opt for the optical interconnects and use one really thick pin in the board as a key/power pin. i can imagine something like 2 fiber links per core would allow awesome throughput and they could really reduce power consumption and heat, and totally clock it to the moon.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


if I bend pins on the CPU, they are easily fixed.


























Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I've had a lot of LGA boards and i've never bent a pin on the socket itself. Its nearly impossible


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


is it true that AM3 MBs will no longer support BD because AMD will sic the lawyers on MB makers that offered the bios change for that



why would you believe something so outrageous ???

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


CPU should be mounted when the motherboard is laying flat on its back. Anyone who mounts a cpu when it's in a chassis standing up is asking for trouble.


even if the mobo sits flat bad things can happen .. and with pins you can fix it ... with pads ... you cant


----------



## JF-AMD

We are showing BD this week on servers. a 2P 32-core platform, doing a demo, not showing benchmarks. Pretty cool virtualization story at VMworld if you are out in vegas this week.

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/08/30/big-world/

If you are there, the session is at 1:00. Other than that, you can see some of the things that DigitalGlobe is doing.

They are running on 12-core today and hungry for more.


----------



## 855211

So this means that most likely that bulldozer wont be released this week because AMD is still demoing stuff and not releasing bench marks. Is this a reasonable assumption?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We are showing BD this week on servers. a 2P 32-core platform, doing a demo, not showing benchmarks. Pretty cool virtualization story at VMworld if you are out in vegas this week.

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/08/30/big-world/

If you are there, the session is at 1:00. Other than that, you can see some of the things that DigitalGlobe is doing.

They are running on 12-core today and hungry for more.



Thank you for giving us a heads up on this. I would love to play with a 32-core platform







Wonder how well that would Fold


----------



## JF-AMD

Don't know about folding, but in a VMware workload it does an awesome job of consolidation. With VMware shifting licensing to VRAM from cores, it means for many customers memory becomes a precious commodity and cores become something that they can throw at VMs in order to get better performance.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14772400*
> We are showing BD this week on servers. a 2P 32-core platform, doing a demo, not showing benchmarks. Pretty cool virtualization story at VMworld if you are out in vegas this week.
> 
> http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/08/30/big-world/
> 
> If you are there, the session is at 1:00. Other than that, you can see some of the things that DigitalGlobe is doing.
> 
> They are running on 12-core today and hungry for more.


This reminds me, weren't the server chips pushed to Q2? Or was that "semi-accurate"?

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/02/bulldozer-delayed-and-not-delayed/

If BD server chips are still not released, and they are to come out before client chips... you can see where I'm going with this.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14773643*
> Don't know about folding, but in a VMware workload it does an awesome job of consolidation. With VMware shifting licensing to VRAM from cores, it means for many customers memory becomes a precious commodity and cores become something that they can throw at VMs in order to get better performance.


Sounds interesting man. We are slowly implementing VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) were I work. So far it has been flawless, just a minor glitch here and there. Having a VDI is very cost efficient, instead of having to purchase a win 7 license for 5000+ pc's our company only has to purchase so many Virtual Server Licenses (I dont know all of the exact details b/c I am not on the team running it but I am the guy that supports it when a problem occurs







) The best part, I think, of running VDI is you can jump from pc to pc and have your session follow you.

I'll have to check with our server guys and see what hardware they are using for the VDI.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14773909*
> Sounds interesting man. We are slowly implementing VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) were I work. So far it has been flawless, just a minor glitch here and there. Having a VDI is very cost efficient, instead of having to purchase a win 7 license for 5000+ pc's our company only has to purchase so many Virtual Server Licenses (I dont know all of the exact details b/c I am not on the team running it but I am the guy that supports it when a problem occurs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) The best part, I think, of running VDI is you can jump from pc to pc and have your session follow you.
> 
> I'll have to check with our server guys and see what hardware they are using for the VDI.


If you are doing VDI we should chat some time. Always interested in talking to customers about that. It is an emerging technology and I would love to know more about how the workload acts, what the pressure points are.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14774008*
> Can you link me to somewhere so that I can educate myself on what the demo actually does?


We are doing VDI demos and we are doing live migration demos between magny cours and bulldozer.


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14774008*
> It's terribly entertaining- and not always for naught. I've learned a lot about CPUs and architectures just by paying attention to this thread


I have learned a lot as well. Climbing through the banter burns hours in the day for me, always waiting for the XD post or JF post to clean and clarify.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14772400*
> We are showing BD this week on servers. a 2P 32-core platform, doing a demo, not showing benchmarks. Pretty cool virtualization story at VMworld if you are out in vegas this week.


32-cores









So if I remember correctly, The server chips will be released before the desktop chips, correct?

If that is the case:
We are anticipating server chips, JF's world. (-:


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I wonder if the NDA for the server side of Bulldozer will be lifted when the server chips release or if it will still be sort of hush hush until the client chips are out.

.....


----------



## Canis-X

IDK, I think that they are a pretty reputable site. Why do you think that they are not?
<-- Just curious


----------



## Tator Tot

Daily is it not?

This thread is locked pending a cleaning.

Please remember to read all of the site documentation you agreed to when joining this site.

I Understand everyone has their issue with either delays, or other members attitudes to John. Please keep your tempers in check regardless.

Best Regards,
Charles / Tator Tot


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread cleaned. OBR is NOT a valid source, so let's not use that anymore. Any more mis information going around about that, will be dealt with.


----------



## Swiftdeathz

Just spotted this update on the gigabyte product information page, perhaps this means release is imminenet









http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3880

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3901
Quote:


> MotherboardModelGA-990FXA-UD7
> PCB1.0
> vendorCPU ModelFrequencyL2
> CacheL3
> CacheCore NameProcessSteppingWattageSystem
> Bus(MT/s)Since BIOS Version
> AMDFX-81503600MHz1MBx88MBBulldozer32nmB2125W5200F4
> AMDFX-81203100MHz1MBx88MBBulldozer32nmB2125W5200F4
> AMDFX-81203100MHz1MBx88MBBulldozer32nmB295W5200F4
> AMDFX-81002800MHz1MBx88MBBulldozer32nmB295W5200F4
> AMDFX-61003300MHz1MBx68MBBulldozer32nmB295W5200F4
> AMDFX-41003600MHz1MBx48MBBulldozer32nmB295W5200F4


----------



## RussianJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14777733*
> Just spotted this update on the gigabyte product information page, perhaps this means release is imminenet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3880
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3901


Lets hope that is a good sign, my poor 965 @4.5 is no longer cutting it. Everything is set minus the X8, sigh.


----------



## Benz

Yes, well...

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3894#bios

It's official.


----------



## catharsis

i think tuesday the launch is happening. It just feels like we're getting all this information fed to us recently that points towards it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14777836*
> i think tuesday the launch is happening. It just feels like we're getting all this information fed to us recently that points towards it.


This.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I hope they keep feeding us more information, I am loving it


----------



## StarDestroyer

has AMD-JF said that server chips are out 1st

I wonder how much time is in between, he just said that a server demo without benches was next week


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

The Server Demo is this week. I plan on reading up on it when the information becomes available


----------



## 855211

They all seem clocked kinda low (2.8ghz for the lowest eight core and 3.3ghz for the hex core) looks like the ipc is up to par with sandy bridge i would think.


----------



## Obakemono

So 3600mhz stock, plus 500mhz(?) turbo on _*All*_ cores nets 4100mhz. I really want to see what turbocore does with 4 cores within the TDP.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14778000*
> They all seem clocked kinda low (2.8ghz for the lowest eight core and 3.3ghz for the hex core) looks like the ipc is up to par with sandy bridge i would think.


Doesn't really matter. The 2500k is only 3.3GHz. Also, Turbo Core should bring the 8150 past 4GHz.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778009*
> So 3600mhz stock, plus 500mhz(?) turbo on _*All*_ cores nets 4100mhz. I really want to see what turbocore does with 4 cores within the TDP.


AMD charts showed 4-core turbo doubling the effect of 8-core turbo.

Whether this was to scale or not is debatable. If it was, though, then 4600MHz out of the box on four cores looks beast for gaming!


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14769597*
> I got bored waiting for BD so I upgraded my own hardware.


Wow. So you busted out the solder gun? Nice.









[sent from my mobile device]


----------



## StarDestroyer

theres a good chance they will wait for next gen BD then just release them


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14778000*
> They all seem clocked kinda low (2.8ghz for the lowest eight core and 3.3ghz for the hex core) looks like the ipc is up to par with sandy bridge i would think.


highest bin 8 core is at 3.6 stock .. so its not so bad .. + turbo core 2.0 adds a good boost on top of that ...

i dont see what's the problem .. + they all have unlocked multi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14778145*
> theres a good chance they will wait for next gen BD then just release them


huh???

enough with the misinformation


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778019*
> AMD charts showed 4-core turbo doubling the effect of 8-core turbo.
> 
> Whether this was to scale or not is debatable. If it was, though, then 4600MHz out of the box on four cores looks beast for gaming!


do you mean an FX4 going up to 4600, or 4cores of an FX8


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14778145*
> theres a good chance they will wait for next gen BD then just release them


Well, don't get your hopes so high, it'll give you gas.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778019*
> AMD charts showed 4-core turbo doubling the effect of 8-core turbo.
> 
> Whether this was to scale or not is debatable. If it was, though, then 4600MHz out of the box on four cores looks beast for gaming!


OH HECK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Doing some simple math, each core uses about 16 watts, so with all cores running at 4100mhz, that would run it at 125 watts TDP. So halve that to 4 cores, or 64 watts @4100mhz. Sooooooo, this thing could be a beast on 4 cores, like you said 1000mhz bump in turbo on 4 cores seems to be possible.








(Disclaimer: All of this is speculation on my part)


----------



## Tatakai All

The waiting marathon for BD is so close to being over I can see the finish line. There has been a lot of casualties along the way due to fatigue, whining and just poor mental training. To all who have hung in there we're almost there and to the fallen victims who lay on the wayside enjoying the taste of giving up, how's it taste?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14778325*
> The waiting marathon for BD is so close to being over I can see the finish line. There has been a lot of casualties along the way due to fatigue, whining and just poor mental training. To all who have hung in there we're almost there and to the fallen victims who lay on the wayside enjoying the taste of giving up, how's it taste?


It should be more like "How does that Sandy Bridge taste?"


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14778195*
> do you mean an FX4 going up to 4600, or 4cores of an FX8


4 cores on the 8150.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778395*
> It should be more like "How does that Sandy Bridge taste?"


... this reminded me of a reporter standing on the beach covering hurricane irene, who was supposedly covered in "a mixture of sand and sea foam" that the winds threw all over him. It was only when some of it got into his mouth that he realized it was raw sewage.


----------



## catharsis

Hm, unlike other amd fans I'll reserve comments till benchmarks come out.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778432*
> 4 cores on the 8150.
> 
> ... this reminded me of a reporter standing on the beach covering hurricane irene, who was supposedly covered in "a mixture of sand and sea foam" that the winds threw all over him. It was only when some of it got into his mouth that he realized it was raw sewage.


Hahaha oh that's gross.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14777733*
> Just spotted this update on the gigabyte product information page, perhaps this means release is imminenet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3880
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3901


Interesting. The FX8 8150 has a 3600Mhz stock speed,with turbo core 2.0 it could be over 4Ghz on 4 cores,so <4Ghz could be easily done on all cores.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14778538*
> Hahaha oh that's gross.
> 
> Interesting. The FX8 8150 has a 3600Mhz stock speed,with turbo core 2.0 it could be over 4Ghz on 4 cores,so <4Ghz could be easily done on all cores.


In response to the first line: indeed.

Turbo Core 2.0 also boosts clock speeds on all cores as long as they aren't running too hot (which is much more of an "automatic overclock when you need it" than what Intel Turbo Boost was originally advertised as). On the 16 core Interlagos, AMD claims a 500MHz boost when ALL 16 CORES (edited, sorry for the error) are active. So it's safe to say that the 8150 will be exceeding 4500MHz on 4 cores and could even near 5GHz.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778395*
> It should be more like "How does that Sandy Bridge taste?"


What exactly are you celebrating? SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance.

The 60 - 90 Day deadline on the other hand has expired, and do you know when Bulldozer is being released & how it will Perform? Or are you still speculating?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14777733*
> Just spotted this update on the gigabyte product information page, perhaps this means release is imminenet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3880
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3901


Nice find. That confirms the clock speeds and retail stepping. Usually these leaks of information under NDA happen very close to launch, right?


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778019*
> Doesn't really matter. The 2500k is only 3.3GHz. Also, Turbo Core should bring the 8150 past 4GHz.
> 
> !


I was meaning that them being clocked low was a good thing because that means to be competitive they would have to have a large ipc increase, which is better than a huge clockspeed increase imo. Being clocked low in not a bad thing


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14778572*
> What exactly are you celebrating? SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance.


lol wow.

I'm bitter and angry. Rarrrr.

I thought bulldozer had two turbo modes, one for half cores, and one for full core usage. Is that wrong? Is it more dynamic than that, as in it actually adjusts clocks down to the MHz to stay at the TDP limit the entire time?

I can't wait to see the x4 vs i5 results, overclocked anyways turbo is silly.

Epic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778569*
> So it's safe to say that the 8150 will be exceeding 4500MHz on 4 cores and could even near 5GHz. (sic stock)


----------



## LBear

Are they gonna release a 8170 or was it just a rumor?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778646*
> Nice find. That confirms the clock speeds and retail stepping. Usually these leaks of information under NDA happen very close to launch, right?


Yup







. This info wouldn't be out if we weren't close. I can smell the goal line.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear;14778784*
> Are they gonna release a 8170 or was it just a rumor?


I believe that was do out later in the year.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;14778742*
> I was meaning that them being clocked low was a good thing because that means to be competitive they would have to have a large ipc increase, which is better than a huge clockspeed increase imo. Being clocked low in not a bad thing


I know that you meant that, but I was just pointing out that stock clocks don't mean anything when it comes to overclockability.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah I thought so, it's not a dynamic turbo. It has two modes, all module turbo and half module turbo.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14778782*
> I thought bulldozer had two turbo modes, one for half cores, and one for full core usage. Is that wrong? Is it more dynamic than that, as in it actually adjusts clocks down to the MHz to stay at the TDP limit the entire time?


It does.

JF's Blog say up to 500MHz turbo for all cores (for Interlagos at least). Also recent slides from AMD seem to show (EDIT: yeah the slide you posted is what I am referring to) that when going to half the cores the boost may double.

So... 3.6GHz (confirmed) + up to 1GHz = 4.6GHz turbo on 4 cores with the stock cooler. This is why people think bulldozer will clock very well. Remember it is a speed demon design (longer pipelines).

In fact, I would not at all be surprised if the average 4 core FX out clocked the average 2500K given the same cooling capacity.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;14777733*
> Just spotted this update on the gigabyte product information page, perhaps this means release is imminenet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3880
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3901


I hate to point this out and put a dull moment in the party but haven't the B2 ES benchmarks been leaked?

B2 = Production
B2 = ES

Won't they perform exactly the same?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14778572*
> What exactly are you celebrating? SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance.
> 
> The 60 - 90 Day deadline on the other hand has expired, and do you know when Bulldozer is being released & how it will Perform? Or are you still speculating?


You are just upset because you are not enjoying the, how does that quote go.....oh yeah:
"SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance". 2010rig, August 31, 2011.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778919*
> It does.
> 
> JF's Blog say up to 500MHz turbo for all cores (for Interlagos at least). Also recent slides from AMD seem to show (EDIT: yeah the slide you posted is what I am referring to) that when going to half the cores the boost may double.
> 
> So... 3.6GHz (confirmed) + up to 1GHz = 4.6GHz turbo on 4 cores with the stock cooler. This is why people think bulldozer will clock very well. Remember it is a speed demon design (longer pipelines).
> 
> In fact, I would not at all be surprised if the average 4 core FX out clocked the average 2500K given the same cooling capacity.


Hopefully the longer pipeline design will work out well for AMD. Wasn't that one of the main problems with NetBurst?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14778925*
> I hate to point this out and put a dull moment in the party but haven't the B2 ES benchmarks been leaked?
> 
> B2 = Production
> B2 = ES
> 
> Won't they perform exactly the same?


JF already said current stuff going around the web is not representative. Plus CPU-z does not show a revision for that chip only stepping "2". I think that chip is actually A1 (A0 would be stepping 1 with the revision column blank).

Plus, that ES is slower than phenom II in every way (read: nobody would buy it anyway so why release it)

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778975*
> Hopefully the longer pipeline design will work out well for AMD. Wasn't that one of the main problems with NetBurst?


Well I think there were more problems with Netburst than just the pipeline.









AMD can't really afford to release their version of P4. If they do, there will be such a large migration to Intel that they may go under.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778929*
> You are just upset because you are not enjoying the, how does that quote go.....oh yeah:
> "SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance". 2010rig, August 31, 2011.


I'm not sure what we're enjoying tho. No confirmation has been made, no benchmarks release. Are we all just drunk?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778990*
> JF already said current stuff going around the web is not representative. Plus CPU-z does show a revision for that chip only stepping "2". I think that chip is actually A1 (A0 would be stepping 1 with the revision column blank).
> 
> Plus, that ES is slower than phenom II in every way (read: nobody would buy it anyway so why release it)


Engineering samples being slower than the product that they're intended to replace... AMD always talking about things but not releasing benchmarks... rumors running wild... hey, doesn't this remind you of Athlon 64?
Quote:


> Well I think there were more problems with Netburst than just the pipeline.


Definitely. As usual though I'm just pointing little things out.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778929*
> You are just upset because you are not enjoying the, how does that quote go.....oh yeah:
> "SB owners have had their rigs for 8 MONTHS, enjoying the fastest available performance". 2010rig, August 31, 2011.


I'm not upset, I just don't see what there's to celebrate considering you're still SPECULATING.

When is Bulldozer being released?

How well does it perform?

The 60 - 90 Day deadline has expired, and has AMD said ANYTHING?










I require proof before making up my mind about something. I don't just blindly follow.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14778925*
> I hate to point this out and put a dull moment in the party but haven't the B2 ES benchmarks been leaked?
> 
> B2 = Production
> B2 = ES
> 
> Won't they perform exactly the same?


if those B2 leaks were posted by obr then they werent B2 samples ...


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779068*
> if those B2 leaks were posted by obr then they werent B2 samples ...


Wasn't speaking about OBR. I thought "Chiphell" had a B2 as well


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14779035*
> I'm not upset, I just don't see what there's to celebrate considering you're still SPECULATING.
> 
> When is Bulldozer being released?


NAO.
Quote:


> How well does it perform?











Quote:


> The 60 - 90 Day deadline has expired, and has AMD said ANYTHING?


Yes.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779068*
> if those B2 leaks were posted by obr then they werent B2 samples ...


I'm pretty sure "stepping 2" is stepping A1.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778919*
> It does.
> 
> JF's Blog say up to 500MHz turbo for all cores (for Interlagos at least). Also recent slides from AMD seem to show (EDIT: yeah the slide you posted is what I am referring to) that when going to half the cores the boost may double.
> 
> So... 3.6GHz (confirmed) + up to 1GHz = 4.6GHz turbo on 4 cores with the stock cooler. This is why people think bulldozer will clock very well. Remember it is a speed demon design (longer pipelines).
> 
> In fact, I would not at all be surprised if the average 4 core FX out clocked the average 2500K given the same cooling capacity.


Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves?

The only thing I saw with 500Mhz turbo was server chips typically those are clocked quite a bit lower than consumer chips, secondly the blog from JF didn't state double the Mhz, in fact it directly said they weren't going to say how much how much higher the disabled core boost would be.

We'll see what happens, but taking server chip information, and mixing it with speculation just doesn't sit well with me.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14779083*
> Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves?
> 
> The only thing I saw with 500Mhz turbo was server chips when are clocked quite a bit lower than consumer chips, secondly the blog from JF didn't state double the Mhz, in fact it directly said they weren't going to say how much how much higher.
> 
> We'll see what happens, but taking server chip information, mixing it with speculation, just doesn't sit well with me.


A diagram released by AMD shows 4-core turbo being double the 8-core turbo.

Now, what will the 8-core turbo be... that's the question.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14779035*
> I'm not upset, I just don't see what there's to celebrate considering you're still SPECULATING.
> 
> When is Bulldozer being released?
> 
> How well does it perform?
> 
> The 60 - 90 Day deadline has expired, and has AMD said ANYTHING?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I require proof before making up my mind about something. I don't just blindly follow.


What did I speculate? *NOTHING*.
Why are you and soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many others hung up on the 60-90 day thing?
Come on, defend SB and IB please, we would ALL love to hear that broken record again! On second thought, better not, since this is a BD thread and SB/IB has NO place here.
With those BIOS releases things are looking at for BD.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778990*
> JF already said current stuff going around the web is not representative. Plus CPU-z does not show a revision for that chip only stepping "2". I think that chip is actually A1 (A0 would be stepping 1 with the revision column blank).


AMDJF can't/won't comment either way -goor/bad-since he's not allowed

Now my patience and hunger will be put to the test.

If I make the food I have last 2weeks, I have enough, just will run out of ice cream and cheese...then I can ORDER SB+MB in 30days

good lord, BD benches better be out by then


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14779094*
> What did I speculate? *NOTHING*.
> Why are you and soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many others hung up on the 60-90 day thing?
> Come on, defend SB and IB please, we would ALL love to hear that broken record again! On second thought, better not, since this is a BD thread and SB/IB has NO place here.
> With those BIOS releases things are looking at for BD.


I hate to be the first AMD fanboy to point this out to you, but... well... you're not making that much sense.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14779103*
> AMDJF can't/won't comment either way -goor/bad-since he's not allowed
> 
> Now my patience and hunger will be put to the test.
> 
> If I make the food I have last 2weeks, I have enough, just will run out of ice cream and cheese...then I can ORDER SB+MB in 30days
> 
> good lord, BD benches better be out by then


COME ON!! Enough with the "I'm buying SB because BD (insert your gripe here)" posts.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779090*
> A diagram released by AMD shows 4-core turbo being double the 8-core turbo.
> 
> Now, what will the 8-core turbo be... that's the question.


It's a diagram...

From the blog:
Quote:


> Even higher boost states available with half of the cores active. We're not stating exactly how high processors can boost with AMD Turbo CORE, but obviously if there is room for up to 500MHz with all cores active, fewer active cores would obviously mean less power, and more headroom to recapture with AMD Turbo CORE. At launch you will see processors marketed with a base and a maximum frequency, base will reflect the actual clock speed on the processor and max will reflect the highest AMD Turbo CORE state.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779123*
> I hate to be the first AMD fanboy to point this out to you, but... well... you're not making that much sense.


Yeah, I'm tired. It shows. Lol. OK, OK Usario, I'll take the hint and get some sleep.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14778892*
> Yeah I thought so, it's not a dynamic turbo. It has two modes, all module turbo and half module turbo.


EVGA should make a turbo gauge for FX CPU's. MAX TURBO!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14778919*
> It does.
> 
> JF's Blog say up to 500MHz turbo for all cores (for Interlagos at least). Also recent slides from AMD seem to show (EDIT: yeah the slide you posted is what I am referring to) that when going to half the cores the boost may double.
> 
> So... 3.6GHz (confirmed) + up to 1GHz = 4.6GHz turbo on 4 cores with the stock cooler. This is why people think bulldozer will clock very well. Remember it is a speed demon design (longer pipelines).
> 
> In fact, I would not at all be surprised if the average 4 core FX out clocked the average 2500K given the same cooling capacity.


Longer pipelines is concerning,hopefully AMD doesn't release a high clocking however crappy performing CPU.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14779083*
> Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves?
> 
> The only thing I saw with 500Mhz turbo was server chips typically those are clocked quite a bit lower than consumer chips, secondly the blog from JF didn't state double the Mhz, in fact it directly said they weren't going to say how much how much higher the disabled core boost would be.
> 
> We'll see what happens, but taking server chip information, and mixing it with speculation just doesn't sit well with me.


I am not trying to pass anything off as fact and I know the 500MHz was for Interlagos... as I say that in my post. The AMD slide shows double boost for half cores compared to all cores so I think that is true.

Anyway, just based on the μarch it is clear AMD had a goal of clockspeed. Let's just hope they don't end up with P4.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14779078*
> Wasn't speaking about OBR. I thought "Chiphell" had a B2 as well


linky????

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779081*
> 
> I'm pretty sure "stepping 2" is stepping A1.


maybe the A1 stepping if it ever existed had the microcode issues or some other stuff ... thus was hiding the true performance of the chip


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779163*
> maybe the A1 stepping if it ever existed had the microcode issues or some other stuff ... thus was hiding the true performance of the chip


Hasn't JF said before that early engineering samples have microcode issues?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14779149*
> I am not trying to pass anything off as fact and I know the 500MHz was for Interlagos... as I say that in my post. The AMD slide shows double boost for half cores compared to all cores so I think that is true.
> 
> Anyway, just based on the μarch it is clear AMD had a goal of clockspeed. Let's just hope they don't end up with P4.


The slide doesn't say it's to scale, it's just a slide...

Reading too far into things at this point, at least for me.

I also seem to recall 3.6GHz being leaked with a 4.2Ghz turbo on the highest end cpu. If those are right the cpu will be listed as 3.6GHz base with a max turbo of 4.2Ghz, which is not 1GHz.

Again that could be 100% wrong, but afaik nothing about the desktop chips, not even the turbo frequencies has been released.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779187*
> Hasn't JF said before that early engineering samples have microcode issues?


he hinted at a possibility and for the reason being that its how they work out the bugs before release

so final silicon = true performance and before that its anyones guess


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779163*
> linky????


Let me dig over at XS and see if i can find it.


----------



## xd_1771

1Ghz for 4 cores. Possibly even more turbo for 2 cores.

If the 3.6Ghz stock frequencies for the intial 8-core model (rumoured) are right.... [ignoring the "turbo" value]
Or better yet the 4.1Ghz or so stock frequencies for the 8170.....
Again, rumoured, but exciting nontheless...

Of course there are differences between the server variants and desktop, for one the server variants have more cores, but also operate at much lower clockspeeds...


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14779191*
> The slide doesn't say it's to scale, it's just a slide...
> 
> Reading too far into things at this point, at least for me.
> 
> I also seem to recall 3.6GHz being leaked with a 4.2Ghz turbo on the highest end cpu. If those are right the cpu will be listed as 3.6GHz base with a max turbo of 4.2Ghz, which is not 1GHz.
> 
> Again that could be 100% wrong, but afaik nothing about the desktop chips, not even the turbo frequencies has been released.


The 3.6GHz base clock is listed on Gigabyte site. Given how close we are to launch I doubt that is wrong.

Yes, 4.2GHz is the rumored turbo core, but that same rumors only show a 200MHz TC for the 4 core. Odd to say the least. As for the slide... fine it may not be to scale but 1GHz turbo has been rumored for a while now. Sure, it may be false but it may be true.

And if you don't like to read into things and contribute to the rumor mill then this thread is not for you.


----------



## BrEnKeR

Every 990 motherboard I've been looking at have a system bus of HyperTransport 3.0. But Bulldozer will have HyperTransport 3.1. Wouldn't this bottleneck or prevent Bulldozer from achieving best performance?


----------



## Silas

Not what i was looking for but interesting and disappointing if accurate.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4936532&viewfull=1#post4936532
Quote:


> For example the launch date. At this time, the press NDA disclosure is planned for the 06 Sept while the retail launch is planned for October, between 03 and 15. The exact date is not yet defined, but it's really October.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14779280*
> Every 990 motherboard I've been looking at have a system bus of HyperTransport 3.0. But Bulldozer will have HyperTransport 3.1. Wouldn't this bottleneck or prevent Bulldozer from achieving best performance?


No.

HT 3.0 is 2600MHz, but AM3 CPUs only actually run their HT Link at 2000MHz.

HT 3.1 is 3200MHz, but AM3+ CPUs only actually run their HT Link at 2600MHz.

EDIT: The boards probably support 3.1, though, but... well... I guess they don't advertise it yet because it wouldn't work with current AM3 CPUs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14779324*
> Not what i was looking for but interesting.
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4936532&viewfull=1#post4936532


JF has said "launch date on the launch date". So the above is not true.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779382*
> 
> JF has said "launch date on the launch date". So the above is not true.


What exactly does that even mean? No disrespect to jf but that quote is from a well respected xs poster and ill gladly take his word over someone who hasn't confirmed or denied anything.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14779324*
> Not what i was looking for but interesting and disappointing if accurate.
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4936532&viewfull=1#post4936532


so a post of a guy saying he thinks obr might be right .... :O

i wouldnt call that a non obr related post


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779382*
> No.
> 
> HT 3.0 is 2600MHz, but AM3 CPUs only actually run their HT Link at 2000MHz.
> 
> HT 3.1 is 3200MHz, but AM3+ CPUs only actually run their HT Link at 2600MHz.


are you sure your not thinking of NB speeds when you say run their HT link at 2000Mhz and 2600Mhz?

its been awhile for me on AMD(OCing),so im just curious?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14779094*
> What did I speculate? *NOTHING*.
> Why are you and soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many others hung up on the 60-90 day thing?
> Come on, defend SB and IB please, we would ALL love to hear that broken record again! On second thought, better not, since this is a BD thread and SB/IB has NO place here.
> With those BIOS releases things are looking at for BD.


Ummm, what? I only brought it up because of this...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14778325*
> The waiting marathon for BD is so close to being over I can see the finish line. There has been a lot of casualties along the way due to fatigue, whining and just poor mental training. To all who have hung in there we're almost there and to the fallen victims who lay on the wayside enjoying the taste of giving up, how's it taste?


Then you said:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778395*
> It should be more like "How does that Sandy Bridge taste?"


You bring up SB ( in a mocking manner ) and become shocked when I point out the obvious. The obvious being that SB owners have had their rigs for 8 months, while those of us waiting for Bulldozer, *are still waiting*.

I'm glad BD is finally upon us, but I'm not going to jump for joy until I see how well it performs, and until you know, *it's actually released*.

Anyway...

I pointed out something earlier, which I'm kinda puzzled about...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14773827*
> This reminds me, weren't the server chips pushed to Q2? Or was that "semi-accurate"?
> 
> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/02/bulldozer-delayed-and-not-delayed/
> 
> If BD server chips are still not released, and they are to come out before desktop chips... you can see where I'm going with this.


Do we know if Server chips are still scheduled ahead of desktop chips, or will they get released at the same time?


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779456*
> so a post of a guy saying he thinks obr might be right .... :O
> 
> i wouldnt call that a non obr related post


I totally believe obr fabricated screenshots but some of the stuff he spewed has been confirmed as accurate.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14779603*
> I totally believe obr fabricated screenshots but some of the stuff he spewed has been confirmed as accurate.


please stop mentioning obr


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14779523*
> are you sure your not thinking of NB speeds when you say run their HT link at 2000Mhz and 2600Mhz?
> 
> its been awhile for me on AMD(OCing),so im just curious?


No, I'm thinking of HT.

Usually CPU/NB is the same as HT out of the box, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14779403*
> What exactly does that even mean? No disrespect to jf but that quote is from a well respected xs poster and ill gladly take his word over someone who hasn't confirmed or denied anything.


It means that you won't know when Bulldozer will be hitting shelves until it hits the shelves.

There will be no paper launch. Availability will begin on launch day.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14778569*
> In response to the first line: indeed.
> 
> Turbo Core 2.0 also boosts clock speeds on all cores as long as they aren't running too hot (which is much more of an "automatic overclock when you need it" than what Intel Turbo Boost was originally advertised as). On the 16 core Interlagos, AMD claims a 500MHz boost when ALL 16 CORES (edited, sorry for the error) are active. So it's safe to say that the 8150 will be exceeding 4500MHz on 4 cores and could even near 5GHz.


Do not confuse statements made about servers with potential for clients. They are different products. Unless you understand APM, derating, application loads and TDP, you can't draw the proper conclusions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779090*
> A diagram released by AMD shows 4-core turbo being double the 8-core turbo.
> 
> Now, what will the 8-core turbo be... that's the question.


That diagram was done by me. The scientific tool used to measure the exact accuracy of the boxes was microsoft powerpoint. It was done for illustrative purposes, do not draw any conclusions from it. Oh, and the client guys stole my graphics. You'll see client presentations that show 16 cores....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14779187*
> Hasn't JF said before that early engineering samples have microcode issues?


When? Link or it didn't happen.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779223*
> he hinted at a possibility and for the reason being that its how they work out the bugs before release


When? Link or it didn't happen.

With as many times as I post on these threads, please quote me properly. The data is there.


----------



## Fr0sty

maybe i mis-quoted you john

but heres the original quote that i was reffering to

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14110811*
> Nothing is "crippled", why would you build an engineering sample without all of the functionality?
> 
> Engineering samples are built for validation and testing, NOT for performance. You want as many samples as possible to do all of your test so you shoot for high yields, which generally implies low clock speed.
> 
> Performance is based on:
> The silicon
> The microcode in the silicon
> The BIOS
> The compiler updates
> The drivers
> The OS optimizations
> Performance tuning by engineers
> 
> When you are looking at the alleged sample performance what you are seeing is a big bowl of dough that has not been baked into bread.
> 
> There are too many people on the internet making stupid comments about BD performance based on engineering results that might or might not be real.
> 
> Everyone needs to take it down a notch because what you are seeing, if you are actually seeing real results, is not indicitive of the final performance. You should all be smart enough to understand this, but somehow I keep having to explain this over and over.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14779745*
> Do not confuse statements made about servers with potential for clients. They are different products. Unless you understand APM, derating, application loads and TDP, you can't draw the proper conclusions.
> 
> That diagram was done by me. The scientific tool used to measure the exact accuracy of the boxes was microsoft powerpoint. It was done for illustrative purposes, do not draw any conclusions from it. Oh, and the client guys stole my graphics. You'll see client presentations that show 16 cores....


My bad. Thanks for the correction.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14779826*
> maybe i mis-quoted you john
> 
> but heres the original quote that i was reffering to


That's the one I had in mind too. I said it as a question, though, because I was unsure if this was ever more than an implication.


----------



## Naturecannon

*My prediction:

* AMD will feed all small tid bits of bait to keep the mob down and too grab your attention now and again giving you hope Bulldozer will be finally released one day. Another DEMO with no Real data or benches, coming next week is one example!

Problem is............. that fishing line is at least 2 more months out!!

Now, the question is, will you be AMD's tool and play on the line that long???

AMD








BD Suckerfish

I am not an AMD hater, owned nothing but AMD. Just think this thread should be closed or abandoned until they step up to the plate and make some official announcement, after all, we are past the 90 day mark of promised launch and there are some serious delay rumors that make some serious sense right now.

Jeez, the FX boards were release over 90 days ago with delay announcement, in a few days this BD thread will be a year OLD. AMD cant even pop in a give a date for a paper launch at least?? NO, cause they dont know exactly when ready to launch either!!!


----------



## Usario

^ No, it's at least a week out.

I won't believe Bulldozer is delayed until November unless AMD says so or it doesn't come out in September or October.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14780100*
> ^ No, it's at least a week out.
> 
> I won't believe Bulldozer is delayed until November unless AMD says so or it doesn't come out in September or October.


lol wut?

At least a week out is not contradictory to what he said...

Also you won't believe bulldozer is delayed until it doesn't hit shelfs in another 90 days?

I'm confused as to when Bulldozer was actually expected to be released, I've heard so many predictions come and go I've lost track.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


*My prediction:

* AMD will feed all small tid bits of bait to keep the mob down and too grab your attention now and again giving you hope Bulldozer will be finally released one day. Another DEMO with no Real data or benches, coming next week is one example!

Problem is............. that fishing line is at least 2 more months out!!

Now, the question is, will you be AMD's tool and play on the line that long???

AMD








BD Suckerfish

I am not an AMD hater, owned nothing but AMD. Just think this thread should be closed or abandoned until they step up to the plate and make some official announcement, after all, we are past the 90 day mark of promised launch and there are some serious delay rumors that make some serious sense right now.

Jeez, the FX boards were release over 90 days ago with delay announcement, in a few days this BD thread will be a year OLD. AMD cant even pop in a give a date for a paper launch at least?? NO, cause they dont know exactly when ready to launch either!!!


How am I a sucker if I have no need to upgrade right now?









If I absolutely had to upgrade for some reason or another I would, but I have the luxury of time. So I choose to wait.

Now if it's 2012 and still no BD then I'll just throw something together. But I somehow doubt that will happen.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol wut?

At least a week out is not contradictory to what he said...

Also you won't believe bulldozer is delayed until it doesn't hit shelfs in another 90 days?

I'm confused as to when Bulldozer was actually expected to be released, I've heard so many predictions come and go I've lost track.


He said that it's at least two months out.

I believe Bulldozer is delayed. But I won't believe it's delayed to November unless AMD says so or come November it still isn't on shelves.

45nm Bulldozer was originally expected to be released in 2009 (Q4 IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong) on AM3, but was pushed back to 2011 so it could be released on 32nm (perhaps the octocore die would be too huge and hot on 45nm?). Eventually the Q2 timeframe came up, but then it was pushed back to Q3. If Bulldozer does not come out in the next month, then it is delayed to Q4.


----------



## Evil Penguin

All I know is that I'm running the latest F4 BIOS that officially supports BD.
We are near.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


Not what i was looking for but interesting and disappointing if accurate.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4936532


That was a very interesting read. If I remember correctly the guy who said he leaked the first K8 benchies is also the guy who writes cpu-z.

Interesting


----------



## Fr0sty

ohh and btw ... bulldozer isnt the most waited upon product ever

this place could very well go to the detox album by dr-dre

or even duke nukem forever

i had to mention those facts since not alot is known actually


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14780774*
> ../snip
> i had to mention those facts since not alot is known actually


dun dun dun!


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


ohh and btw ... bulldozer isnt the most waited upon product ever

this place could very well go to the detox album by dr-dre

or even duke nukem forever

i had to mention those facts since not alot is known actually


If it goes between one or the other, I hope it goes the way of Detox. It's a mythical album that is supposedly going to save hip hop, and what we've heard from it is excellent... but since not too much is known alot is unknown

If AMD pulls a Duke Nukem Forever on us I will be pissed and my next fatwa will contain a 3930k.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Why SBe though?

I don't think anything could be as bad a duke nukem, and I say that with full knowledge that like bulldozer I've never seen it or played with it.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


He said that it's at least two months out.

I believe Bulldozer is delayed. But I won't believe it's delayed to November unless AMD says so or come November it still isn't on shelves.

45nm Bulldozer was originally expected to be released in 2009 (Q4 IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong) on AM3, but was pushed back to 2011 so it could be released on 32nm (perhaps the octocore die would be too huge and hot on 45nm?). Eventually the Q2 timeframe came up, but then it was pushed back to Q3. If Bulldozer does not come out in the next month, then it is delayed to Q4.


If Bulldozer was supposed to launch in 2009,there is no way it can come close to Sandy Bridge performance.
The $300 launch price (as seen on the FX giveaway contest) would be too much if this is the case,and too little too late for AMD in the enthusiast desktop market.


----------



## BLKKROW

I am pretty excited for the results for Bulldozer.

Here is my train of thought:

If its a good chip. Then YAY
If it is not a good chip. Then o-well I do not have to buy it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14780991*
> Why SBe though?


Because I expect Bulldozer to beat the 2600k handily and not bottleneck high-end multi-GPU setups. If that isn't the case, since I do CPU-dependent HD video encoding and some 3D rendering, I would benefit from the extra cores (when I built my Phenom II system I was on a tight budget).
Quote:


> I don't think anything could be as bad a duke nukem, and I say that with full knowledge that like bulldozer I've never seen it or played with it.


Duke Nukem Forever was kind of like Phenom II. It would've been ok if it came out a few years ago like it really should have.


----------



## 2010rig

Just want to point out that I'm a genius and able to see the future.

If anybody is interested in consultations, readings, it will only cost you $500 / hour.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let's be honest, you and I both know it's not coming by the end of this month, as there are only 7 days left.

It would be nice, but if they only started production in August, how can it hit retail by the end of August? That's the sad truth.

AMD has to be the only company I know of that doesn't give out release dates *consistently*. With Llano, 6970, those are just examples of leaks that were accurate, I'm too lazy to look for more examples.

The inconsistencies are what bother me about this whole thing. We're told AMD never releases info such as performance data, release dates, etc. ( Benchmarks I can understand, I don't expect them. )

Here we have Llano performance 4 months ahead of its release. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74

Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me AMD "never" reveals such info.

/rant


I'm looking into my Crystal Ball now for AMD's next "time frame" for Bulldozer availability.

I need some minor info that my Crystal Ball requests, and that is whether or not Server CPU's are still planned ahead of Desktop.

Currently, ALL signs point to 30 - 60 Days as the next time frame. Since "rumors" are far more accurate then AMD's time lines. But I'll get back to you all with a more official prediction.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


JF already said current stuff going around the web is not representative. Plus CPU-z does not show a revision for that chip only stepping "2". I think that chip is actually A1 (A0 would be stepping 1 with the revision column blank).


By my understanding, to get the alphanumeric stepping for Zambezi (as well as Bobcat and Llano) you need the numbers from the Model and Stepping fields for CPU-Z. There were leaked screenshots of early A1 engineering samples (I believe K43 at the end of the model number indicated A1). These were Model 0 Stepping 1. The K44 (presumably B0) leaks were Model 1 Stepping 0. B1 samples would show Model 1 Stepping 1, and I think B2 would show Model 1 Stepping 2.

Contrast this with Intel's system, where Model and Ext. Model numbers remain the same, even between Ax, Bx, Cx, and Dx revisions. Only the Stepping number increases. (Sandy Bridge D2 is Ext. Model 2A Stepping 7, whereas C0 is Ext. Model 2A Stepping 3).


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


NostraSeronx inspired me to pursue this psychic gig.









At least mine came true, though anyone not in denial could've predicted the same. But around here, if you don't buy the story AMD is selling, you're an Intel fanboy.










Damn, if I'm an Intel fanboy... then... oh lord. I can only imagine what's running through the heads of AMD fanboys.

I might as well become a psychic too.

Because Uncle Mike told me that Phenom II X6 scores 27000 in this random benchmark and Phenom II X4 scores 21000 in the same benchmark since JF-AMD said 50% more throughput and since Thomas Seifert said 35% more performance and there's probably going to be a 20% decrease in performance because of the modular approach that means that Bulldozer is going to score 1 million points in this benchmark and decimate Intel. Also because of the ALUs and the AGLUs and there's more of them that also contributes to it and AGLUs are some real awesome stuff because they're like ALUs and AGUs together right? So it's like there's actually 6 ALUs and that means that the performance is going to be great. Ultimate IPC. But it's not like the Phenom II X6 doesn't already decimate the 2600k anyway.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Damn, if I'm an Intel fanboy... then... oh lord. I can only imagine what's running through the heads of AMD fanboys.

I might as well become a psychic too.

Because Uncle Mike told me that Phenom II X6 scores 27000 in this random benchmark and Phenom II X4 scores 21000 in the same benchmark since JF-AMD said 50% more throughput and since Thomas Seifert said 35% more performance and there's probably going to be a 20% decrease in performance because of the modular approach that means that Bulldozer is going to score 1 million points in this benchmark and decimate Intel. Also because of the ALUs and the AGLUs and there's more of them that also contributes to it and AGLUs are some real awesome stuff because they're like ALUs and AGUs together right? So it's like there's actually 6 ALUs and that means that the performance is going to be great. Ultimate IPC. But it's not like the Phenom II X6 doesn't already decimate the 2600k anyway.


You forgot to add "my opinion" or Uncle Mike's opinion.









Wouldn't want anyone thinking this is factual.


----------



## pioneerisloud

You guys are starting to head this thread towards a 24 hour lock down. STOP posting blatant false information, as its NOT allowed here at OCN. If you want to post links and news, make sure its factual.


----------



## thenerdal

Did I miss anything?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Did I miss anything?










Just this...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


You guys are starting to head this thread towards a 24 hour lock down. STOP posting blatant false information, as its NOT allowed here at OCN. If you want to post links and news, make sure its factual.


----------



## Tator Tot

Please abide by the Terms of Service that you agreed to when signing up on this site.

If I see any more issues with this thread, I will lock it again and issue disciplinary action. Final warning.


----------



## xd_1771

*Ladies and gentlemen, the AMD FX Series clock speeds and model numbers:*
GA-990XA-UD3 CPU support list
All supported by the new F4 BIOS which has just appeared on the site.

*Attention, Overclock.net: The AMD FX Series Desktop "Zambezi" CPU model numbers and clock speeds have been released by GIGABYTE. THIS IS OFFICIAL.*

Screenshot:









The best part is that this is MY motherboard!!!


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Just want to point out that I'm a genius and able to see the future.

If anybody is interested in consultations, readings, it will only cost you $500 / hour.

I'm looking into my Crystal Ball now for AMD's next "time frame" for Bulldozer availability.

I need some minor info that my Crystal Ball requests, and that is whether or not Server CPU's are still planned ahead of Desktop.

Currently, ALL signs point to 30 - 60 Days as the next time frame. Since "rumors" are far more accurate then AMD's time lines. But I'll get back to you all with a more official prediction.


Ok, let me get this correct: You are all wound around the axle because AMD (a company out to make money) is not exactly staying with the exact date of the release (their choice) and getting all upset and conveying that here on a repeated basis? Yes?
Oh, and BTW, the "Fiscal year" for AMD is how AMD sets those dates, so it may be a tad different as far as dates than other companies.


----------



## chasefrench

Alot of people are saying in this thread that we are close to launch, thank go we are close to launch etc....

how do you know?! AMD has said nothing, is it even confirmed that the NDA expires on the 6th September, does that even matter as reviewers probably have nothing to announce!?

and the 60-90 days are up, are the chips even shipping?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chasefrench*


Alot of people are saying in this thread that we are close to launch, thank go we are close to launch etc....

how do you know?! AMD has said nothing, is it even confirmed that the NDA expires on the 6th September, does that even matter as reviewers probably have nothing to announce!?

and the 60-90 days are up, are the chips even shipping?


How do we know? We don't know without a doubt. We're just making an educated guess. Why? Because there were rumors of a sep 6 launch, there were rumors of them already shipping the product this week, and finally Gigabyte has rolled out a bios update for their MB's to support BD this week and it shows clock speeds. NDA = Reviews will be out. I'm sure big sites get chips earlier than clients do.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chasefrench*


Alot of people are saying in this thread that we are close to launch, thank go we are close to launch etc....

how do you know?! AMD has said nothing, is it even confirmed that the NDA expires on the 6th September, does that even matter as reviewers probably have nothing to announce!?

and the 60-90 days are up, are the chips even shipping?



Leaks of information under NDA, like the clock speeds and model numbers in xd's post, do not leak months before release.

This the main reason people think we are close to launch.


----------



## chasefrench

if they manage to pull off a Sept 6 or even Sept 19 launch, people would be uploading pictures of retail boxes in warehouses. If they pull it off, I ll be very impressed in their ability to hold onto information. At this late stage in the game, there are some many people who "need to know" a leak is almost certain. Either that or their NDA states damages of billions of dollars in breach

Tuesday 6th is an odd launch date, Monday 19th immediately seems more possible. Nothing has ever been launched on a tuesday


----------



## lan cable garrotte string

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Screenshot:










FX4100 it is then. Or the 95W 8120 with 2 modules disabled.


----------



## Tyreal

Asus has some "updated" bios as well for certain motherboards, the description for these newer bios updates say "Support new cpu's" yet there are no cpu's in the list that refer to these newer bios revision numbers...guess Gigabyte slipped up a wee bit, and Asus is adhering to the NDA a little more strictly.
M5A87
So IMO BD is close, but not REAL close


----------



## StepanPepan

Fact 1:

1st june it was published by AMD officials, that: "Zambezi PIBs scheduled to be available late summer 2010, 60-90 days from today"

Fact 2:

90 days passed.

Fact 3:

Processors are not available.

Fact 4:

Processors have not been even announced yet.

John, I am asking you as a representant of AMD to comment this problem and renew the announcement and availability for customer purchase schedule.

If you personally cannot comment on this, please tell someone who can.

Thank you.

I think we should wait for the response from John Fruehe and not clutter this thread with unfactual information more. It is against rules of this forum.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


*Ladies and gentlemen, the AMD FX Series clock speeds and model numbers:*
GA-990XA-UD3 CPU support list
All supported by the new F4 BIOS which has just appeared on the site.

*Attention, Overclock.net: The AMD FX Series Desktop "Zambezi" CPU model numbers and clock speeds have been released by GIGABYTE. THIS IS OFFICIAL.*

Screenshot:









The best part is that this is MY motherboard!!!










I am not convinced this is right. That is all I will say on it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Fact 1:

1st june it was published by AMD officials, that: "Zambezi PIBs scheduled to be available late summer 2010, 60-90 days from today"

Fact 2:

90 days passed.

Fact 3:

Processors are not available.

Fact 4:

Processors have not been even announced yet.

John, I am asking you as a representant of AMD to comment this problem and renew the announcement and availability for customer purchase schedule.

If you personally cannot comment on this, please tell someone who can.

Thank you.

I think we should wait for the response from John Fruehe and not clutter this thread with unfactual information more. It is against rules of this forum.


I don't comment on launch dates. Period.


----------



## swindle

We've seen a box, and one running on some youtube video here?

Let us not worry so much. They will get here when they get here. They will be great.


----------



## andos

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


Fact 1:

1st june it was published by AMD officials, that: "Zambezi PIBs scheduled to be available late summer 2010, 60-90 days from today"

Fact 2:

90 days passed.

Fact 3:

Processors are not available.

Fact 4:

Processors have not been even announced yet.

John, I am asking you as a representant of AMD to comment this problem and renew the announcement and availability for customer purchase schedule.

If you personally cannot comment on this, please tell someone who can.

Thank you.

I think we should wait for the response from John Fruehe and not clutter this thread with unfactual information more. It is against rules of this forum.



They were announced at E3.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Who are you or who do you think you are?


 I am a person of no special importance, who found out, that some information became untrue and asks for the new information.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


You are giving him orders while the only reason he reads and comments here is because he WANTS to.


I am not giving anybody any orders, I have no right to do that.

I think it is in the best interest of a company to maintain a compliance between what it officially says and what it actually does.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


... people like you who try to pin him down in , at least in my humble opinion, a quite aggressive manner.


Please do not try this thing. The post was *strictly rational and factual*. There is no hint in it of pinning somebody down or any agressive manner.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


*Ladies and gentlemen, the AMD FX Series clock speeds and model numbers:*
GA-990XA-UD3 CPU support list
All supported by the new F4 BIOS which has just appeared on the site.

*Attention, Overclock.net: The AMD FX Series Desktop "Zambezi" CPU model numbers and clock speeds have been released by GIGABYTE. THIS IS OFFICIAL.*

Screenshot:









The best part is that this is MY motherboard!!!










I'm not totally convinced,aren't those the same specs of those "leaked" rumors?
My board doesn't even have any AM3+ CPU's listed even though it claims to be AM3+ ready,it also lists the Thuban requiring the beta BIOS,which it does not. http://www.gigabyte.com/support-down....aspx?pid=3516


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Ok we are close or maybe close to a launch date please stop trolling on the last hundred feat... Let's keep it civilized and for pity sake show John some respect this man is doing this in his own free time i wonder how or why he even puts up with this...From what I've been reading on this tread September 6th is the day that NDA lifts or so is rumored lets just wait 5 more days you waited 1 damn year what are 5 more days worth????


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14782628*
> *Ladies and gentlemen, the AMD FX Series clock speeds and model numbers:*
> GA-990XA-UD3 CPU support list
> All supported by the new F4 BIOS which has just appeared on the site.
> 
> *Attention, Overclock.net: The AMD FX Series Desktop "Zambezi" CPU model numbers and clock speeds have been released by GIGABYTE. THIS IS OFFICIAL.*
> 
> Screenshot:
> -snip-
> 
> The best part is that this is MY motherboard!!!


sorry but have to say this. the link to this was posted a page or two ago. but the pic makes it easier for people to lazy to click on links to get the info


----------



## Jinny1

If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14783944*
> If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


We wont know for sure until it is released and we see real benchmarks


----------



## patricksiglin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14783944*
> If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


I was thinking kind of the same thing but we have yet to see what they will be selling for. I guess if the price difference isn't that much then the 8150 would make sense?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14783944*
> If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


Low frequency stability low power requirements - FX-8120 95W

Low frequency stability high power requirements - FX-8120 125W

High frequency stability low power requirements - FX-8150 125W


----------



## Twitchie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14783944*
> If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


Possibly for the OEM market. The difference in stock clock speeds/rumoured turbo speeds would be huge.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14782628*
> *Attention, Overclock.net: The AMD FX Series Desktop "Zambezi" CPU model numbers and clock speeds have been released by GIGABYTE. THIS IS OFFICIAL.*


These are not official speeds. GIGABYTE or any company for that matter don't have the right to disclose such imformation.


----------



## Fr0sty

go ahead benz ... leak the official numbers from your cousin


----------



## The sword of Roland

machs nicht!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14782071*
> you guys are starting to head this thread towards a 24 hour lock down. Stop posting blatant false information, as its not allowed here at ocn. If you want to post links and news, make sure its factual.


guys stop with the nonsense or we will get a 24 Hr lock on the thread.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14784074*
> go ahead benz ... leak the official numbers from your cousin


I'm just gonna pretend you never said that...


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14784016*
> Low frequency stability low power requirements - FX-8120 95W
> 
> Low frequency stability high power requirements - FX-8120 125W
> 
> High frequency stability low power requirements - FX-8150 125W


Wait a minute -

High frequency stability high power requirements would need to be sold as FX-8120 125W, so there is a chance to get high f stable chip as 8120, but with very high power when overclocked.


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14783944*
> If the models are all black editions.. Then why would anyone buy a 8150 over a 8120?? You could just easily oc it to 8150 clocks.


Not everybody OCs.


----------



## baltar

Sweet BD's coming out soon.. Cant wait I gotta get this cylon detector built, Adama and Tigh's on my case about it.


----------



## proximo

And remember that how much TDP is available directly effects how much turbo boost can be applied (if I've read previous comments correctly). The 125W FX-8120 will probably turbo boost significantly higher than the 95W variant. For non-overclockers, like me, that's a significant advantage worth paying extra for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fooliobass;14784394*
> Not everybody OCs.


----------



## kweechy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *proximo;14784489*
> And remember that how much TDP is available directly effects how much turbo boost can be applied (if I've read previous comments correctly). The 125W FX-8120 will probably turbo boost significantly higher than the 95W variant. For non-overclockers, like me, that's a significant advantage worth paying extra for.


But for everyone else...if there's an FX that will run at 3.1 GHz @ 95W vs 3.6 @ 125W, it'll OC better I'd have to imagine.


----------



## Usario

I assume the 8150 is binned much better and therefore will OC better.

Or it could be like the difference between the X4 955 and 965 -- very, very tiny.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Hey guys a couple days ago someone pointed out that www.amd.com/amdfx was prompting for a login and the pages information would not completely load. Well I just checked and it is up 100% w/o a login







I just get this feeling we are so close






























www.amd.com/amdfx

Edit: Nevermind nothing new on that. Just same stuff that has been on the site. "Coming Soon" With pictures/links to 2 Phenom and 1 Athlon II.


----------



## Canis-X

yep, nothings changed on that site. *sigh*


----------



## charlesquik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14784841*
> Hey guys a couple days ago someone pointed out that www.amd.com/amdfx was prompting for a login and the pages information would not completely load. Well I just checked and it is up 100% w/o a login
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just get this feeling we are so close
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.amd.com/amdfx
> 
> Edit: Nevermind nothing new on that. Just same stuff that has been on the site. "Coming Soon" With pictures/links to 2 Phenom and 1 Athlon II.


wott!! :O made my day


----------



## Fr0sty

the return of epic

been a while since amd used strong words like that


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14785612*
> the return of epic
> 
> been a while since amd used strong words like that


AMD is known for hiring some killer copywriters, surely you remember this?
Quote:


> *'Ultra Pro Gaming'* DIMM working at 1600 MHz (*11-11-11*)


http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/40081/amd-starts-selling-radeon-branded-ddr3-memory

And look at what they say about Phenom II Quad's
Quote:


> AMD Phenom™ II X4 processors with second-generation [true quad-core] technology are *designed to provide performance headroom for the most demanding builders, gamers, and enthusiasts.*
> 
> Architectural enhancements and 45nm process technology have created a tuned processing pipeline that *helps keep your systems performing at the highest levels.*


http://sites.amd.com/us/game/products/processors/phenom-ii/Pages/phenom-ii.aspx

My point, AMD exaggerates things, only time will tell how Bulldozer truly performs.


----------



## Tyreal

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/amdfx/Pages/amdfx.aspx


----------



## jck

I bet JF-AMD has a username and login to that...


----------



## Tyreal

lol, probably.. Well....guess progress on that page would be a good indicator of the release state of the BD.


----------



## jck

I hope so...but, I won't say whether or not I think it does.

I am just ready to see real numbers.


----------



## StarDestroyer

If I had a picture of a bull sleeping/dozing I would upload it


----------



## aweir

I hear unconfirmed rumors that this is an 8-core CPU. Is anyone allowed to confirm this?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14782071*
> You guys are starting to head this thread towards a 24 hour lock down. STOP posting blatant false information, as its NOT allowed here at OCN. If you want to post links and news, make sure its factual.


I think a 24 hour lock down is good idea this will give all of us time to recharge our batters for the following day!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14787334*
> I think a 24 hour lock down is good idea this will give all of us time to recharge our batters for the following day!


That message was 12 hours ago, and the drama has slowed down.


----------



## StarDestroyer

so this is 60-90 days from June 1

what does AMD say, anything ???


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14785921*
> http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/amdfx/Pages/amdfx.aspx


wants a password
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;14787187*
> I hear unconfirmed rumors that this is an 8-core CPU. Is anyone allowed to confirm this?


----------



## Canis-X

They seem pretty sure that the release date is going to be mid-October over on XtremeSystems' forum.









BUT! They also posted a link to this --> http://www.smsassembly.com/AMD-Opteron-6276-OS6276WKTGGGU-2.3GHz/

*AMD Opteron 6276 OS6276WKTGGGU 2.3GHz - 16 Core*
Our price: $1075.00
_Be the first to own AMD's next generation 16-Core 6200 Series processors.
In stock, can ship today._










It is in the BullDozer family --> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206276.html


----------



## Schmuckley

hasn't the date been announced by AMD as being the 19th of Septermber?


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14788042*
> They seem pretty sure that the release date is going to be mid-October over on XtremeSystems' forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT! They also posted a link to this --> http://www.smsassembly.com/AMD-Opteron-6276-OS6276WKTGGGU-2.3GHz/


I hope there wrong but im inclined to take there word over anyones on here.


----------



## Canis-X

Got this from XS just now too, another site has more of them for sale:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DedEmbryonicCe1;4940719*
> http://www.tradeloop.com/users/?user=64706
> He's selling more than that model.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;14788075*
> hasn't the date been announced by AMD as being the 19th of Septermber?


The September 19th rumor came from this comic's image. That NEVER came directly from AMD. They don't reveal release dates, remember?


----------



## gplnpsb

Note the second line FA 1130CPM in the Opteron 6276 photo. Assuming the image is real, it shows that the date of assembly (in the format of ?? YYWW???) for this chip was the 30th week of 2011. Meaning that final stepping silicon was ready by the week of July 25-31st.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14788042*
> They seem pretty sure that the release date is going to be mid-October over on XtremeSystems' forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT! They also posted a link to this --> http://www.smsassembly.com/AMD-Opteron-6276-OS6276WKTGGGU-2.3GHz/
> 
> *AMD Opteron 6276 OS6276WKTGGGU 2.3GHz - 16 Core*
> Our price: $1075.00
> _Be the first to own AMD's next generation 16-Core 6200 Series processors.
> In stock, can ship today._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is in the BullDozer family --> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206276.html


----------



## thenerdal

Is this Motherboard Bulldozer ready? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128510


----------



## Schmuckley

yes..it's bulldozer ready! i'm bulldozer ready!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14788523*
> Is this Motherboard Bulldozer ready? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128510


Since it's AM3*+*, I'd say yes. It even says it on the description.


----------



## Impunity

I'm not typically one to get into the whole rumore release date nonsense but if the above links are true and accurate that falls in line well with several of the rumors.

1. About 6 days ago they said shipping would start in a week or so
2. Opterons should ship first
3. Dates of sept 19 and 26 have been thrown around pretty heavily

assuming the above posts and 1&2 are accurate this bodes well for item 3

as always Lets wait and see!


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14788552*
> Since it's AM3*+*, I'd say yes. It even says it on the description.


Thanks.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14788635*
> I'm not typically one to get into the whole rumore release date nonsense but if the above links are true and accurate that falls in line well with several of the rumors.
> 
> 1. About 6 days ago they said shipping would start in a week or so
> 2. Opterons should ship first
> 3. Dates of sept 19 and 26 have been thrown around pretty heavily
> 
> assuming the above posts and 1&2 are accurate this bodes well for item 3
> 
> as always Lets wait and see!


I'm starting to *Feel* like AMD will release the Server line on the 26th of Sept and desktop release in Oct?


----------



## Tyreal

Sept 6th comes from...
http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/processors/Pages/fx-rules.aspx
Quote:


> 4. Entry Period: The Contest begins July 21, 2011 at 12:01am Eastern Time ("EDT") and ends September 6, 2011 at 11:59 pm EDT (the "Entry Period"). Entries that are submitted before or after the Entry Period will be disqualified. Sponsor's computer will be the official timekeeping device for the Contest.


Quote:


> The prize will be sent to a shipping address designated by entrant. Allow a minimum of eight (8) to ten (10) weeks for delivery


October speculation.
At minimum up to 5 lucky people will have a Bulldozer CPU by October.
IMO question is... Will these people be lucky to receive a BD BEFORE official launch *raises eyebrow* *scratch's chin*


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14788042*
> They seem pretty sure that the release date is going to be mid-October over on XtremeSystems' forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT! They also posted a link to this --> http://www.smsassembly.com/AMD-Opteron-6276-OS6276WKTGGGU-2.3GHz/
> 
> *AMD Opteron 6276 OS6276WKTGGGU 2.3GHz - 16 Core*
> Our price: $1075.00
> _Be the first to own AMD's next generation 16-Core 6200 Series processors.
> In stock, can ship today._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is in the BullDozer family --> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Opteron%206276.html


they as everyone on xs or just a few select members ???

and btw if that sites does ship today it might means benchmarks within the next couple of days


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14789012*
> I'm starting to *Feel* like AMD will release the Server line on the 26th of Sept and desktop release in Oct?


Same here but i'm going to wait for it. I picked up a Crosshair V today for 208 so i'm content. I'm going 6 core instead of 4 and plan on overclocking the hell out of it.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14789212*
> Sept 6th comes from...
> http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/processors/Pages/fx-rules.aspx
> 
> October speculation.
> At minimum up to 5 lucky people will have a Bulldozer CPU by October.
> IMO question is... Will these people be lucky to receive a BD BEFORE official launch *raises eyebrow* *scratch's chin*


I don't think the contest and general availability are in any way related. I find it hard to believe they would give a new proc to contest winners before the media or general public. The potential for some neck bearded basement troll to speak out in some inaccurate and damaging way is just too great

l regardless the NDA lifts on the 6th (or so I've heard, jf can you confirm?) and after that point I expect that if anyone has legitimate engineering samples or early production chips we should start seeing a lot more info.

Ultimately fo me bf3 was the catalyst that said "it's time to upgrade" so I just hope that I can get my hands on an 8150 before bf3 launches.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14788206*
> The September 19th rumor came from this comic's image. That NEVER came directly from AMD. They don't reveal release dates, remember?


right, the last official thing was at computex June 1 when they said 60-90days

so now its up to AMD to MAKE A STATEMENT


----------



## Fr0sty

if september 6 11:59pm is the end of contest entry does that make the lift of nda september 7 ????


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14789640*
> if september 6 11:59pm is the end of contest entry does that make the lift of nda september 7 ????


a contest is just that , a contest, and they want time to choose winners, contact them, and send them a BD, what in time for what, the 1st? 2nd?...week after release?


----------



## el gappo

Not necessarily. FYI the guys on XS with the exception of chew* know as little as you lot do







I wouldn't be taking anyone's word as gospel right now.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14789638*
> right, the last official thing was at computex June 1 when they said 60-90days
> 
> so now its up to AMD to MAKE A STATEMENT


And so we wait. That slide was only shown once iirc. They've never really backed it up. As far as "official" goes you can go with Q3 2011 (which means by the end of Sept) or you can go with JF's line which is essentially: there is no release date so sod off. (and for his part that's a reasonable position, CYOA)

Let's face it AMD is gonna do what it sees best regardless of how much righteous nerd rage you post, so for now, until the NDA is over, we wait. Unless someone breaks that agreement (which isn't likely).


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


if september 6 11:59pm is the end of contest entry does that make the lift of nda september 7 ????


General consensus is thats when the NDA will drop and we'll get reviews of performance.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14789696*
> Not necessarily. FYI the guys on XS with the exception of chew* know as little as you lot do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be taking anyone's word as gospel right now.


And whatever FX is, it's good enough for chew* to stick around after launch even after the fiasco he went through. Sounds like decent news to me.

Although loosing chew* is a loss for the community


----------



## StarDestroyer

iirc

whats that mean, I've seen it before and never figured that 1 out yet


----------



## el gappo

If I recall correctly. Google's your friend


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am not convinced this is right. That is all I will say on it.


I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information 
A: This information is fake or 
B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
I'll take A.


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information 
A: This information is fake or 
B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
I'll take A.


Facepalm


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14790397*
> Facepalm


----------



## thenerdal

Can anyone tell me the prices again?


----------



## erocker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


If I recall correctly. Google's your friend











Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Can anyone tell me the prices again?


See quote above. Google is everyone's friend, don't feel like you're left out.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *erocker*


See quote above. Google is everyone's friend, don't feel like you're left out.










Thanks.


----------



## tw33k

Gigabyte leaks Six AMD Bulldozer Launch Models (SKU)


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Note the second line FA 1130CPM in the Opteron 6276 photo. Assuming the image is real, it shows that the date of assembly (in the format of ?? YYWW???) for this chip was the 30th week of 2011. Meaning that final stepping silicon was ready by the week of July 25-31st.


OK, let me add to my list of "don't believe" statements:

1. Any benchmark released before launch
2. Any benchmark that did not come from AMD
3. Anyone with parts for sale before launch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information 
A: This information is fake or 
B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
I'll take A.


I never said it was fake, just that I did not believe it was accurate.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14790368*
> I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information
> A: This information is fake or
> B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
> I'll take A.


So you are saying Gigabyte put fake information on their company's webpage... Why would they do that again? I didn't realize that Gigabyte had sunk to the level of WCCF and DH.









I think John may be referring to a typo or something in the posting.... Or maybe he is simply sticking to his stance of anything not released by AMD before launch may be wrong. Plus he is a server guy and he may not know all the details about Zambezi.

Anyway around it -- it is very hard to imagine that Gigabyte either
A: Has no idea about the details of the FX and accidentally uploaded wrong information or
B: Is trolling


----------



## Fr0sty

the thing that i never understood was why chew decided to leave the community and since he left it means he doesnt have insider info that is up to date right???


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


OK, let me add to my list of "don't believe" statements:

1. Any benchmark released before launch
2. Any benchmark that did not come from AMD
3. Anyone with parts for sale before launch

I never said it was fake, just that I did not believe it was accurate.


I was saying that JF, no worries.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


So you are saying Gigabyte put fake information on their company's webpage... Why would they do that again? I didn't realize that Gigabyte had sunk to the level of WCCF and DH.









I think John may be referring to a typo or something in the posting.... Or maybe he is simply sticking to his stance of anything not released by AMD before launch may be wrong. Plus he is a server guy and he may not know all the details about Zambezi.

Anyway around it -- it is very hard to imagine that Gigabyte either
A: Has no idea about the details of the FX and accidentally uploaded wrong information or
B: Is trolling


Who really knows man. Until details come from AMD, ANYTHING needs to be questioned when it comes to BD, given the history of all the issues that surround it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


OK, let me add to my list of "don't believe" statements:

1. Any benchmark released before launch
2. Any benchmark that did not come from AMD
3. Anyone with parts for sale before launch


You'd expect people to remember that website Seronx linked to that claimed BD would be in stock on August 8...

I guess some of the people on this forum really do have bad memory.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information 
A: This information is fake or 
B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
I'll take A.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*

I never said it was fake, just that I did not believe it was accurate.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


So you are saying Gigabyte put fake information on their company's webpage... Why would they do that again? I didn't realize that Gigabyte had sunk to the level of WCCF and DH.









I think John may be referring to a typo or something in the posting.... Or maybe he is simply sticking to his stance of anything not released by AMD before launch may be wrong. Plus he is a server guy and he may not know all the details about Zambezi.

Anyway around it -- it is very hard to imagine that Gigabyte either
A: Has no idea about the details of the FX and accidentally uploaded wrong information or
B: Is trolling


since not too much is known, alot is unknown


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Who really knows man. Until details come from AMD, ANYTHING needs to be questioned when it comes to BD, given the history of all the issues that surround it.


True, but I question info from people like OBR and his ilk several orders of magnitude more than stuff that is still _(even after "Gigabyte leaks SKUs and Clockspeeds" articles have spread all over the net)_ publicity accessible on their website.

EDIT:
As JF says, the info may not be 100% correct, but that does not mean that it is not very close to the truth (i.e one of the two FX-8120s should really read FX-8130 or some other typo).


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14790610*
> the thing that i never understood was why chew decided to leave the community and since he left it means he doesnt have insider info that is up to date right???


He is finishing up some stuff with AMD meaning he currently has a few trays of FX chips on his desk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chew*;4936876*
> On that note you guys are probably right I don't know a *bannanas* thing.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix62PttEfhU[/ame]


----------



## Fr0sty

good to hear about that then


----------



## Phantom123

The Gigabyte information that everyone is going crazy about is likely to be old information. That is why JF does not believe it is the most accurate. The information is real but it is OLD and not the current product that will be made available.

People must not forget that motherboard makers have had Bulldozer samples for MONTHS and MONTHS.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


The Gigabyte information that everyone is going crazy about is likely to be old information. That is why JF does not believe it is the most accurate. The information is real but it is OLD and not the current product that will be made available.

People must not forget that motherboard makers have had Bulldozer samples for MONTHS and MONTHS.


A mod is passing the info along as "Confirmed", and look at what he's saying about JF-AMD. 
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...dozer-cpu.html

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


One thing he explicitly stated before is he does not speak on the client side of things...







not that he doesn't have any say on this, but not that his comments regarding this info are to be taken totally seriously either - he works for the server side, not client side, at AMD.

Take the "September 6th" date in the OP with a grain of salt, as I said. I'm just saying this launch date is likely with this leaking having happened just now. Plus, other news reporters have stated that the FX began shipping for revenue in the last week of August (so this week, basically).

I'm not too surprised that there's only 95W support; only a $60 board and with lower quality VRMs compared to other Gigabyte boards. Not too shabby that at least one eight core is on the list though


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14790859*
> A mod is passing the info along as "Confirmed", and look at what he's saying about JF-AMD.
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1106268-gigabyte-amd-fx-series-bulldozer-cpu.html


Again, he is just as uninformed as you are.


----------



## Silas

September 6th = NDA Ends/Paper Launch
Availability = Mid October

Quote:



There is a presentation under NDA planned on 6th september but launch is more for around mid-october according to trustworthy sources.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4940688

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4940705


----------



## Fr0sty

inform us then


----------



## el gappo

I was thinking more of stop talking rubbish and if you can't, sit on your hands until launch


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Again, he is just as uninformed as you are.


I'm not going around passing info off as "Confirmed", so enlighten me please.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


A mod is passing the info along as "Confirmed", and look at what he's saying about JF-AMD. 
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...dozer-cpu.html


He is correct, I don't comment on client stuff. I guess I was getting anxious because people were getting carried away.

Life of Brian.

Sandal.

Over and out.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


He is correct, I don't comment on client stuff. I guess I was getting anxious because people were getting carried away.

Life of Brian.

Sandal.

Over and out.


^^LOL!

For all who are going to ask because they don't get it:
http://youtu.be/Nf76lynPdZc

JF, are you the shoe or the gord?


----------



## jck

I was starting to wonder if anyone else knew about Monty Python


----------



## catharsis

Pretty JF has already said, there will be no paper launch. On launch the product will be available. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


September 6th = NDA Ends/Paper Launch
Availability = Mid October

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4940688

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4940705


Again, this goes against what JF-AMD said... "*launch date on the launch date.*"


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



People must not forget that motherboard makers have had Bulldozer samples for MONTHS and MONTHS.


So you apparently believe that GIGABYTE are going to *publicly* post the CPU models and numbers of so-called "samples" that are *NOT* supposed to be available publicly. Aside from the fact that it would be totally useless, that doesn't even make sense....
These aren't samples. The best possible explanation (note the explicit use of "best possible") is that GIGABYTE has had the actual chips and has tested them for compatibility on their motherboards, taking also TDP into consideration. Remember too, that this isn't just about a "CPU support list" - it is about the actual "CPU support" that is in the microcode of the BIOS.

More GIGABYTE boards are now receiving the AM3+ BIOS update (all 900 series boards are now covered and support lists for other boards are being updated) and the same model numbers/etc are listed throughout. It's everywhere, hence "confirmed".


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So you apparently believe that GIGABYTE are going to *publicly* post the CPU models and numbers of so-called "samples" that are *NOT* supposed to be available publicly. Aside from the fact that it would be totally useless, that doesn't even make sense....


You had a 7 series giga board, did it have phenomFX support on the box and site? 







That didn't happen did it


----------



## StarDestroyer

AMD I want answer and I want them now

  
 You Tube


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So you apparently believe that GIGABYTE are going to *publicly* post the CPU models and numbers of so-called "samples" that are *NOT* supposed to be available publicly. Aside from the fact that it would be totally useless, that doesn't even make sense....
These aren't samples. The best possible explanation (note the explicit use of "best possible") is that GIGABYTE has had the actual chips and has tested them for compatibility on their motherboards, taking also TDP into consideration. Remember too, that this isn't just about a "CPU support list" - it is about the actual "CPU support" that is in the microcode of the BIOS.

More GIGABYTE boards are now receiving the AM3+ BIOS update (all 900 series boards are now covered and support lists for other boards are being updated) and the same model numbers/etc are listed throughout. It's everywhere, hence "confirmed".


I agree! At this point, gigabyte's word has more merit then AMD. AMD has already missed two launch targets and the only official response is silence.

The motherboard vendors have been preparing for a lengthy time for this release! They had boards available for the original launch date of june. Professionalism is very much on their side.

The only problem at this point is the ability of AMD to actually produce any FX chip before it is made obsolete by the competition


----------



## chasefrench

JF,

Of all the processors on the Gigabyte sheet that I can assume are reasonably close to the real thing, which one would you personally want?


----------



## Canis-X

I wish that ASUS would slip up and post up a new BIOS with the words.....added support for new CPU's....









I would be doing back flips.....probably break my neck in the process too...LOL


----------



## Electroneng

Keeping the illusion of an immenient release is important for maintaining stock prices. Making any statement could now be catastrophic for them. For these delays to exist, problems are occuring. Engineering related issues, (yield, performance, etc) would definitly have a negative impact. Making public statements such as allowing inventory levels of older items to reduce without establishing a firm price reduction strategy on such inventory would also raise eyebrows in the financial sector.

This illusion cannot be continued for very long as questions will be asked by the influential.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Electroneng*


Keeping the illusion of an immenient release is important for maintaining stock prices. Making any statement could now be catastrophic for them. For these delays to exist, problems are occuring. Engineering related issues, (yield, performance, etc) would definitly have a negative impact. Making public statements such as allowing inventory levels of older items to reduce without establishing a firm price reduction strategy on such inventory would also raise eyebrows in the financial sector.

This illusion cannot be continued for very long as questions will be asked by the influential.


This was a smart statement. I feel dumb now.


----------



## BigCactus

The question is does all this silence guarantee performance advantage over Intel, something AMD hasn't had for about a decade or so? Or will it just be a bang for buck advantage that seems to be AMD's end game since Intel has dominated? It would be nice to see AMD dominate for a while to make things more competitive and interesting.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


You had a 7 series giga board, did it have phenomFX support on the box and site? 







That didn't happen did it










That board did support the Phenom FX 5000 and 5200, aka Athlon 64 X2 5000+ and 5200+, did it not?


----------



## Tyreal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


I wish that ASUS would slip up and post up a new BIOS with the words.....added support for new CPU's....









I would be doing back flips.....probably break my neck in the process too...LOL


They did...check the older boards under the AM3+ section








They just didn't post those "new cpu's" in the supported cpu list.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


That board did support the Phenom FX 5000 and 5200, aka Athlon 64 X2 5000+ and 5200+, did it not?










The deneb based unlockable 5000+ came way later and was a cpu-z glitch as far as I'm concerned, the board also has sb600 so no


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


The deneb based unlockable 5000+ came way later and was a cpu-z glitch as far as I'm concerned, the board also has sb600 so no










Was not the Phenom FX tag an early label defined by AMD as a possible successor to the Original Phenom Series? The successor that was to become the Phenom II (940 am2+). The FX tag has return to the conversation on each of the last 4 product launches!


----------



## ahriman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Pretty JF has already said, ...


He will be so flattered you think so.


----------



## ahriman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


I just hope that I can get my hands on an 8150 before bf3 launches.


Well your odds went up ... just heard BF3 delayed until November.

EDIT: Given the thread this is posted in:
I hereby amend my statement to read "based upon a statement by a friend, BF3 delayed until November"


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Pretty JF has already said...



Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahriman*


He will be so flattered you think so.


Damn you beat me to it!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chasefrench*


JF,

Of all the processors on the Gigabyte sheet that I can assume are reasonably close to the real thing, which one would you personally want?


*Probably*, none of them.







JF likes quiet systems, and actually *underclocks *his processors. ( Some insider info for Catharsis







)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Just don't ever confuse me with an enthusiast and we will all get along fine. I have no idea what you guys do. I underclock my processors because I like quiet systems.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Electroneng*


Keeping the illusion of an immenient release is important for maintaining stock prices. Making any statement could now be catastrophic for them. For these delays to exist, problems are occuring. Engineering related issues, (yield, performance, etc) would definitly have a negative impact. Making public statements such as allowing inventory levels of older items to reduce without establishing a firm price reduction strategy on such inventory would also raise eyebrows in the financial sector.

This illusion cannot be continued for very long as questions will be asked by the influential.


Brilliant. Couldn't have said it better myself. +rep


----------



## vikingsteve

So... uh... any good news? All I ever see when I come in this thread is negativity


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikingsteve;14793610*
> So... uh... any good news? All I ever see when I come in this thread is negativity


Unfortunately, that is because we don't have any solid information. Which leaves us to speculate. Nothing good can come from speculation.

Most people here are making points without any proof / facts to back them up.

For example, they say the NDA lifts on September 6th. Source? Speculation based on when the Bulldozer contest ends.

Some say Bulldozer will launch on the 19th. Source? AMD's comic which had an image that said "eptember 19th".

I won't even touch the performance estimates.









The only official word we were given on June 1st was that Bulldozer would be available in 60 - 90 days. That was 93 days ago, and no word from AMD on the matter. So I leave you with this thread's motto.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*
> Since not too much is known. A lot is unknown.


The sooner you accept this fact, the easier it will be.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14792994*
> *Probably*, none of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JF likes quiet systems, and actually *underclocks* his processors. ( Some insider info for Catharsis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


We should get a pool together to send JF a high end overclocked system with liquid cooling. Probably a 480 rad with four GT-15's should do well, dead silent too









Bringing him over to the darkside can only benefit all of us.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread closed for 24 hours. I will re-open it tomorrow at midnight PST.

I suggest during the downtime, some of you go and re-read the ToS.


----------



## xd_1771

*Reopened. As reminded please abide by the rules or we will not hesitate to lock down the thread for 24 hours again or hand out some serious penalties.
-xd*


----------



## pioneerisloud

I'm leaning more towards serious penalties. Enough is enough if you ask me.


----------



## xd_1771

Whoops, nearly forgot to actually unlock it








Enjoy everyone.


----------



## el gappo

lol


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14805680*
> lol


Oh man, is this the urn lid?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Sit down and be counted
For what you are about to go buy
They are the dealers
They'll give you everything you desire
Hail, Hail to the cheap end
'Cause AMD's got the right of way
They sure are legend with a cause
But they're not coming out today

For those about to Bulldoze, we salute you
For those about to Bulldoze, we salute you

I hope that you forgive me, as I was listening to AC/DC and reading something of this at the same time. This was about all I have to contribute.


----------



## Disturbed117

come on people, please dont get this locked again, lets try and keep this on topic as much as possible.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14805680*
> lol


what is that? looks like a belt buckle


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;14806064*
> what is that? looks like a belt buckle


Well they are in Texas it's possible









Presume it's a box.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14806125*
> Well they are in Texas it's possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Presume it's a box.


It's a box with a belt buckle in it?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;14806064*
> what is that? looks like a belt buckle


It might be a medal for bravery, loyalty and patience, with which AMD will honour those, who actually waited that long and will buy the FX processor, no matter how it performs.

Seriously, it probably is a belt buckle.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14806158*
> It's a box with a belt buckle in it?


Nooo, I think it's a box, no belt buckle









Instead of these damn things that always break and you end up wrapping them in tape.


----------



## JF-AMD

The CPU box on the left is the old school one, we stopped ordering those about 2 years ago. The new ones are on the right, more rectangular so we can fit a G34 into it. Wouldn't doubt that the old ones are still hanging around somewhere, but hadn't seen one in a while.


----------



## el gappo

Simon must be hording them all, he sent my 1100t in that one.







Promptly dropped it and broke the hinge...again.

So come on, spill the beans. Is this a belt buckle or what?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14790368*
> I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information
> A: This information is fake or
> B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
> I'll take A.


Here, Ill add to my statement:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fake

So here are the issues, if Gigabyte does not want to loose the faith of AMD, as well as not get into legal hot water over the NDA, then why would they post information like they did? A leak? Mess up? Or was, by the definition I provided, the information fake, as in not correct or false? I chose the word "fake" because it is best fitting to this situation _*from my point of view*_. It seems that everybody has grown so desperate for any glint of information about this product that they will goto great lengths to believe it could be true, and attack "non-believers" when in fact it is unclear exactly what the information status is. Look at the whole issue of Asus and what they did about saying BD will work on AM3 sockets with a BIOS update. Since BD has yet to release, then the masses have no way of proving it to be true but a great deal of people _believed_ it to be true just because they wanted to and yet AMD only said it was supporting BD on AM3+. See where I am going with this?


----------



## JF-AMD

Or, option C is that I was wrong. Remember that I said it did not look accurate, but remember that I am not a client guy.


----------



## newnub123

wow J-F why u dont tell us u on IFA ? in germany hahah nice found a video with some infos LOL ;M) http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgames.de%2FHardware-Thema-130320%2FNews%2FIFA-2011-Video-Special-zu-AMD-Bulldozer-Soundkarten-Maeusen-Grafik-und-vielem-mehr-842724%2F wow nice TY







hahah u on ifa in germany


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Has bulldozer been a stressful launch for you JF?

Comparatively speaking, from the blog picture to the video of you talking at a showing of the chip -- you seem to have aged like a president.


----------



## Fierce Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;14806064*
> what is that? looks like a belt buckle


Nah, it's a case buckle, for when a case sticker just doesn't say it loud enough.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14806881*
> wow J-F why u dont tell us u on IFA ? in germany hahah nice found a video with some infos LOL ;M) http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgames.de%2FHardware-Thema-130320%2FNews%2FIFA-2011-Video-Special-zu-AMD-Bulldozer-Soundkarten-Maeusen-Grafik-und-vielem-mehr-842724%2F wow nice TY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahah u on ifa in germany


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14806881*
> wow J-F why u dont tell us u on IFA ? in germany hahah nice found a video with some infos LOL ;M) http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgames.de%2FHardware-Thema-130320%2FNews%2FIFA-2011-Video-Special-zu-AMD-Bulldozer-Soundkarten-Maeusen-Grafik-und-vielem-mehr-842724%2F wow nice TY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hahah u on ifa in germany


Thats not JF







The guy in the video is John Taylor not John Fruehe


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;14792860*
> Well your odds went up ... just heard BF3 delayed until November.
> 
> EDIT: Given the thread this is posted in:
> I hereby amend my statement to read *"based upon a statement by a friend, BF3 delayed until November"*


Nope BF3 hasn't been delayed


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14806803*
> Here, Ill add to my statement:
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fake
> 
> So here are the issues, if Gigabyte does not want to loose the faith of AMD, as well as not get into legal hot water over the NDA, then why would they post information like they did? A leak? Mess up? Or was, by the definition I provided, the information fake, as in not correct or false? I chose the word "fake" because it is best fitting to this situation _*from my point of view*_. It seems that everybody has grown so desperate for any glint of information about this product that they will goto great lengths to believe it could be true, and attack "non-believers" when in fact it is unclear exactly what the information status is. Look at the whole issue of Asus and what they did about saying BD will work on AM3 sockets with a BIOS update. Since BD has yet to release, then the masses have no way of proving it to be true but a great deal of people _believed_ it to be true just because they wanted to and yet AMD only said it was supporting BD on AM3+. See where I am going with this?


Or could it be that it's launching on September 6 so AMD nor Gigabyte care?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14805785*
> Oh man, is this the urn lid?


No,the urn is the metal tin box.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14806189*
> Nooo, I think it's a box, no belt buckle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of these damn things that always break and you end up wrapping them in tape.


TWKR package!


----------



## Kmon

I thought the following link may be of some interest as it contains information/speculation regarding Bulldozer









http://citavia.blog.de/2011/08/28/bulldozer-engineering-samples-llano-and-amd-s-fusion-developer-summit-11338315/


----------



## RussianJ

This thread is locked daily?

Man, the mods clean this thread more than my girl cleans the house...


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianJ;14808933*
> This thread is locked daily?
> 
> Man, the mods clean this thread more than my girl cleans the house...


At least she cleans the house


----------



## OtherMike

-Snip-
Nevermind


----------



## Malflash

I do not understand this thread...........is about a product that is not yet on the market, of which nothing is known here despite having someone from the company that launched it and not accept criticism ... ..........

P. S. If you do not understand what I say, excuse me I have translated with google.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malflash;14809568*
> I do not understand this thread...........is about a product that is not yet on the market, of which nothing is known here despite having someone from the company that launched it and not accept criticism ... ..........
> 
> P. S. If you do not understand what I say, excuse me I have translated with google.


And yet another faceless ignoramus to sign up and spam BD threads with nothing to add.

This is why the thread needs constant cleaning.

and yes I'm aware of the irony of not adding anything to the thread with this post as well.


----------



## Malflash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14809641*
> And yet another faceless ignoramus to sign up and spam BD threads with nothing to add.
> 
> This is why the thread needs constant cleaning.
> 
> and yes I'm aware of the irony of not adding anything to the thread with this post as well.


No, I did not come here because of spam .........ignorant? Clearly, if I'm a regular guy who is not a wise or a medium, so I come here to inform me. What to see? 386 pages full of ignorant people like me and nothing. If you know more than me or the other, we are all ears ......... and do not believe that I am ignorant because they do not master your language, I doubt you've mastered mine


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malflash;14809719*
> No, I did not come here because of spam .........ignorant? Clearly, if I'm a regular guy who is not a wise or a medium, so I come here to inform me. What to see? 386 pages full of ignorant people like me and nothing. If you know more than me or the other, we are all ears ......... and do not believe that I am ignorant because they do not master your language, I doubt you've mastered mine


If you came here to learn what has been gleaned and lose your ignorance of the matter then you had no need to post. And that being your first post of 3 on this site clearly shows your bias.









Well now that I've pointed this out to you, I will not spam the thread again on this subject.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malflash;14809719*
> No, I did not come here because of spam .........ignorant? Clearly, if I'm a regular guy who is not a wise or a medium, so I come here to inform me. What to see? 386 pages full of ignorant people like me and nothing. If you know more than me or the other, we are all ears ......... and do not believe that I am ignorant because they do not master your language, I doubt you've mastered mine


We know a hell of a lot about Bulldozer.

We don't know these:

1) clock speeds
2) release date
3) benchmark scores
4) IPC (we have kind of a speculatory idea)


----------



## Naturecannon

Can anybody recap what was gained from this thread..... facts that is, regarding BD. Other than what can also be found with a google search? Seriously!!

"I cant tell you sheet and please don't speculate" seems to be the theme of this thread


----------



## Malflash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14809822*
> If you came here to learn what has been gleaned and lose your ignorance of the matter then you had no need to post. And that being your first post of 3 on this site clearly shows your bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now that I've pointed this out to you, I will not spam the thread again on this subject.


jajaja this is no solution ...... jajaja .........bias ........... be bias here is great, especially with no data.

That said, I go and leave you alone to talk about the color of the box and form ........ what has been known on 08/02/2010 aahhh not expect either this is safe no one has confirmed .............

Adiós chaval.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14809852*
> We know a hell of a lot about Bulldozer.
> 
> We don't know these:
> 
> 1) clock speeds
> 2) release date
> 3) benchmark scores
> 4) IPC (we have kind of a speculatory idea)


I thought we knew clock speeds.  Didn't Gigabyte release that information?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


I thought we knew clock speeds.  Didn't Gigabyte release that information?


It's not official, those may or may not be correct clock speeds.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malflash*


jajaja this is no solution ...... jajaja .........bias ........... be bias here is great, especially with no data.

That said, I go and leave you alone to talk about the color of the box and form ........ what has been known on 08/02/2010 aahhh not expect either this is safe no one has confirmed .............

AdiÃ³s chaval.


Choose to be ignorant; that's not our problem.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


I thought we knew clock speeds.  Didn't Gigabyte release that information?


It's very likely that they're correct, but first of all they haven't been confirmed by AMD and second no one on OCN cares about the stock clock speeds... it's the overclock potential.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14810050*
> It's not official, those may or may not be correct clock speeds.


Im pretty sure they're correct.


----------



## Malflash

It looks indeed, this is a loss of time. To come to be informed here because the information is first hand and to find this is depressing.

I do not say that of all the information, it in his moment, but instead of speaking about the best box to speak if all the plates AM3 + are going to support all the processors that there does not happen like with AM2 + that some of them were not supporting any more of 95w. Are they all going to be black edition? ........ it is a bilge, ocurrira since with the PHII 955 vs 980 puff 200Mhz out of hwbot neither cost for anything, nor decide anything. The price if that is important, many people think that AMD is the "Lady Di" of the CPU's but that it has the wand it is the one that marks the pace will it have AMD with these BD?

That the moderator gives hand? Normal, we are I also would give it to him jajaja.

For 99 % of the users the OC it does not matter, but clear 1 remaining % walks for the forums and they are those who speak well or badly for whom you believe that this here this man? And since it is normal if this one here, so questions, suggestions are done to him and you criticize that for this it is a forum, now that if "it" does not want "to be "pressed" (has to spend it to him in big, tiny laughs all that has to give him) to play so to the riddles.

The date of exit is what less matters, is going to be prompt or Intel eats up them, so they cannot be delayed much any more, otherwise they are going to have very bad advertising. But some that another bench and comment on which such they produce not this one badly, evidently emphasizing his strong points.

Said all that that a not professional person cannot do with Phenom II? .......... easy, there is nothing that it could not do.


----------



## 2010rig

The fact is, AMD is not going to reveal the information we want, until they're ready to launch Bulldozer. ( when ever that may be )

They may be having yield issues, performance issues, or they may not be having any issues at all, we'll never know the truth.

It's clear a lot of people are un-happy with AMD's stance on the matter ( me included ), but complaining about it, belittling John, and arguing in this thread is not doing anyone any good.

Remember the Bulldozer motto.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*
> Since not too much is known. A lot is unknown.


Quit whining about it. Deal with it.


----------



## Phantom123

I have a strange feeling a lot of information is going to be released next week. Its just weird how we are getting Gigabyte posting info. And now John Fruhue has made a Bulldozer Faq sticky. Others in the know have also said there is chatter in the channels that more information is coming next week.


----------



## StarDestroyer

since JF-AMD can't answer hard BD questions, he should go home, let some one else handle the big BD questions


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


this is the BD blog

we demand BD answers



*cry baby*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


since JF-AMD can't answer hard BD questions, he should go home, let some one else handle the big BD questions


----------



## 2010rig

After reading through the FAQ's, John does not very happy or enthusiastic. Perhaps it's time for a non-work related vacation, and stop visiting this BD thread.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


this is the BD blog

it has next to no BD information


There's TONS of info here, just not the one you're expecting. Read the FAQ's and try to understand why benchmarks and the such are not being released.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Has bulldozer been a stressful launch for you JF?
Comparatively speaking, from the blog picture to the video of you talking at a showing of the chip -- you seem to have aged like a president.










If you look at the logo on my shirt you will see that is an old picture. Probably 2008 or so. And, yeah, I am old, happens to all of us.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


I have a strange feeling a lot of information is going to be released next week. Its just weird how we are getting Gigabyte posting info. And now John Fruhue has made a Bulldozer Faq sticky. Others in the know have also said there is chatter in the channels that more information is coming next week.


No, I put the FAQ up because I was sick and tired of answering the same questions over and over. Now I have a link that I can point to. That is all, don't read into it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


After reading through the FAQ's, John does not very happy or enthusiastic. Perhaps it's time for a non-work related vacation, and stop visiting this BD thread.
There's TONS of info here, just not the one you're expecting. Read the FAQ's and try to understand why benchmarks and the such are not being released.


I just got a new bike today. Life should be better. But 2.8 miles in I sheared a derailleur hanger and had to walk back. At least I got a city park lap in later with my san antonio friends and a couple pints of english bitter.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malflash*


It looks indeed, this is a loss of time. To come to be informed here because the information is first hand and to find this is depressing.

I do not say that of all the information, it in his moment, but instead of speaking about the best box to speak if all the plates AM3 + are going to support all the processors that there does not happen like with AM2 + that some of them were not supporting any more of 95w. Are they all going to be black edition? ........ it is a bilge, ocurrira since with the PHII 955 vs 980 puff 200Mhz out of hwbot neither cost for anything, nor decide anything. The price if that is important, many people think that AMD is the "Lady Di" of the CPU's but that it has the wand it is the one that marks the pace will it have AMD with these BD?

That the moderator gives hand? Normal, we are I also would give it to him jajaja.

For 99 % of the users the OC it does not matter, but clear 1 remaining % walks for the forums and they are those who speak well or badly for whom you believe that this here this man? And since it is normal if this one here, so questions, suggestions are done to him and you criticize that for this it is a forum, now that if "it" does not want "to be "pressed" (has to spend it to him in big, tiny laughs all that has to give him) to play so to the riddles.

The date of exit is what less matters, is going to be prompt or Intel eats up them, so they cannot be delayed much any more, otherwise they are going to have very bad advertising. But some that another bench and comment on which such they produce not this one badly, evidently emphasizing his strong points.

Said all that that a not professional person cannot do with Phenom II? .......... easy, there is nothing that it could not do.


I could not understand anything you were trying to say.

---------
To those looking for BD information,

If you actually looked for information, perhaps you would find it.

Hell, just searching "AMD Bulldozer" on Wikipedia gives you a ton of info.


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


this is the BD blog

it has next to no BD information


He does have a point. There's no definitive info in this thread. Just rampant speculation.


----------



## Fr0sty

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/02...ulldozer-blog/

omg what is that???? is it the bulldozer blog :O i supose it is ... and this link was posted in the original post ... so quit whinning guys ...


----------



## Swiftdeathz

I just came across yet another article which talks about the bulldozer architecture and possible delay. Feel free to skip the Intel stuff.

http://hothardware.com/News/Uncertai...neration-CPUs/


----------



## xd_1771

A few clarifications:
First of all: *I'm pretty sure that slides at Computex on June 1 stated that they would be "available" - not necessarily "available FOR RETAIL". AMD seems to have met that deadline, as 1. there have been reports that BD began to ship for revenue in the last week of August, 2. GIGABYTE has leaked the model numbers & clock speeds (they are in possession of the chips), and 3. there is apparently an Opteron server 16 core BD available for sale on the web.*

Second of all: *We will not tolerate those who complain that there will be no further official information from AMD about the FX series processor, before the retail launch. It has been stated too many times. Those who troll, complain, and by doing so agitate JF-AMD or other users on this forum, may and will receive immediate infractions.*

Thirdly and finally(may I add): *Look around, look at how much info AMD has released about how this architecture actually works!* There has been tons of info released about the Bulldozer architecture (what the thread is supposed to be about, NOT NECESSARILY THE FX PROCESSOR ITSELF) - for example: how the certain features of the architecture will benefit you in special ways, how much cache is in each core and why, what instruction sets (incl. new ones) are supported, how 8 cores can be fit into a die size area smaller than Phenom II x6 (for reasons in addition to 32nm process node). *The answers are already there.* If you are looking for information about the FX processor for clients, there is also a lot of information out about it. GIGABYTE recently confirmed the model numbers and clock speeds.

Thank you,
-xd


----------



## Kmon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you look at the logo on my shirt you will see that is an old picture. Probably 2008 or so. And, yeah, I am old, happens to all of us.


Another way of looking at age is more experienced and tested


----------



## Malflash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> I could not understand anything you were trying to say.


Look for truth, this is a waste of time. come here to find out because the data are first-hand and find it is depressing.

I am not saying that all the information, that at the time, but instead of talking about the box better to talk about if all of the plates AM3+ van to bear all the processors that do not occur as with AM2+ that some did not bear more than 95w.

What everyone is going to be black edition ?........ this is nonsense and will happen as with PHII 955 vs 980 puff 200Mhz out of hwbot worthless or decide anything. The price if that is important, many people think that AMD are the processors of the people ( for the price ) but it also has the wand is the one that marks the rhythm ¿ will AMD with these BD or Intel with the SB-E?

What the moderator pays attention and closes the thread ? Normal, i also give









The 99% of users the OC does not matter to them, but of course the remaining 1% is in the forums and are those who speak good or bad why do you think that you are here this man ? As is normal, since you are here you ask questions, suggestions and criticisms for this is a forum, now that if he does not want to "press" ( it has to pass in large, swallowed laughter you should give all this ) because to play a guessing game.

I hope that it is now better understand









Quote:


> Those who troll, complain, and by doing so agitate JF-AMD or other users on this forum, may and will receive immediate infractions.


If that was my there is no problem i thought that this is a forum and we can talk freely without disrespect, but if not i prefer not to be here.


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malflash*


Look for truth, this is a waste of time. come here to find out because the data are first-hand and find it is depressing.

I am not saying that all the information, that at the time, *but instead of talking about the box better to talk about if all of the plates AM3+ van to bear* all the processors that do not occur as with AM2+ that some did not bear more than 95w.

What everyone is going to be black edition ?........ this is nonsense and will happen as with PHII 955 vs 980 puff 200Mhz out of hwbot worthless or decide anything. The price if that is important, many people think that AMD are the processors of the people ( for the price ) but it also has the wand is the one that marks the rhythm Â¿ will AMD with these BD or Intel with the SB-E?

What the moderator pays attention and closes the thread ? Normal, i also give









The 99% of users the OC does not matter to them, but of course the remaining 1% is in the forums and are those who speak good or bad why do you think that you are here this man ? As is normal, since you are here you ask questions, suggestions and criticisms for this is a forum, now that if he does not want to "press" ( it has to pass in large, swallowed laughter you should give all this ) because to play a guessing game.

I hope that it is now better understand









If that was my there is no problem i thought that this is a forum and we can talk freely without disrespect, but if not i prefer not to be here.



You have gone from being ignorant to very funny. I cannot understand what you are trying to say here, lol.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

My word, I don't know whats worse... The trolls or the people responding to them.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you look at the logo on my shirt you will see that is an old picture. Probably 2008 or so. And, yeah, I am old, happens to all of us.


How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking...

How long have you been with AMD, and how many launches have you been apart of? If more than one, which one was or has been your favorite product to work with?

If some of us at OCN chipped in and built you a decent overclocked and water cooled gaming rig (as a little kick back for your time spent here, both the good and the bad) for home use with a few steam games on it like BFBC2 would you play with us?


----------



## Jinny1

Everyday AMD delays the releade of BD, the more they lose money and clients to intel.

I have yet to see a new planned build on any forum that has an AMD cpu in it. Everyone either chooses 2500k or 2600k. So i dont see any reason why JF said on the FAQ that releasing a launch date will cost AMD money.

1. No enthusiast is buying AMD cpus anyways atm. And the upcoming BD is for enthusiasts.

2. If a proper launch date is released, that would actually stall potential intel cpu buyers to wait for BD and reassess the situation.

3. If AMD actually released real benchmarks that shows it beats intel rather comprehensively(this leads me to think BD isnt performing as well as they planned) it will obviously stall intel sales not AMD sales since almost all enthusiast built computers are intel cpus atm.

So is this just purely a business decision? Or is there something far more serious reasons behind it, something that could seriously jeopardise AMD's standing in the CPU world.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


If some of us at OCN chipped in and built you a decent overclocked and water cooled gaming rig (as a little kick back for your time spent here, both the good and the bad) for home use with a few steam games on it like BFBC2 would you play with us?


I would donate to that cause


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz*


I just came across yet another article which talks about the bulldozer architecture and possible delay. Feel free to skip the Intel stuff.


I am glad the author stated "Rumor" and "Speculation" regarding BD and didn't post, as if what was stated, as fact.







Thank you for sharing. I enjoyed reading the comments of the article more then the article itself







lol


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


If some of us at OCN chipped in and built you a decent overclocked and water cooled gaming rig (as a little kick back for your time spent here, both the good and the bad) for home use with a few steam games on it like BFBC2 would you play with us?


That sounds like a great idea!


----------



## thenerdal

Can someone tell me who JF is? He sounds like someone important.


----------



## whitekidney

Let's see if this works.

If I (we) don't get any information about BD within a week, I'm going intel (2500k).

Oh yeah, JF-AMD, I did.


----------



## Silas

I hope BD is amazing. I just couldn't wait anymore


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Can someone tell me who JF is? He sounds like someone important. 


Director of product marketing for server/workstation products. But he's more than that. He cares enough to take time out of his day, time he's not paid for, to visit various forums and answer questions from the enthusiast community. And he doesn't go on a rage rant when he gets very rude, ridiculous messages (with Bulldozer's hype, you can imagine how many of those he's gotten). He deserves more appreciation than he gets.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My word, I don't know whats worse... The trolls or the people responding to them.

How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking...

How long have you been with AMD, and how many launches have you been apart of? If more than one, which one was or has been your favorite product to work with?

If some of us at OCN chipped in and built you a decent overclocked and water cooled gaming rig (as a little kick back for your time spent here, both the good and the bad) for home use with a few steam games on it like BFBC2 would you play with us?


I am 46, I have been with AMD for 5+ years and have been in the server world for more than 20 years. My favorite product was the compaq racks that we launched in 1994. That was a fundamental shift in the computing world.

If you guys built me an overclocked system, it wouldn't be any good for me. I surf the web, upload pics of biking and do you finances in quicken. I am the worst candidate for overclocking.

I am a gamer, but I prefer the wii.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Everyday AMD delays the releade of BD, the more they lose money and clients to intel.

I have yet to see a new planned build on any forum that has an AMD cpu in it. Everyone either chooses 2500k or 2600k. So i dont see any reason why JF said on the FAQ that releasing a launch date will cost AMD money.

1. No enthusiast is buying AMD cpus anyways atm. And the upcoming BD is for enthusiasts.

2. If a proper launch date is released, that would actually stall potential intel cpu buyers to wait for BD and reassess the situation.

3. If AMD actually released real benchmarks that shows it beats intel rather comprehensively(this leads me to think BD isnt performing as well as they planned) it will obviously stall intel sales not AMD sales since almost all enthusiast built computers are intel cpus atm.

So is this just purely a business decision? Or is there something far more serious reasons behind it, something that could seriously jeopardise AMD's standing in the CPU world.


Enthusiasts are a small part of the market. While you might not be buying AMD client CPUs, people are, because we picked up market share.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Director of product marketing for server/workstation products. But he's more than that. He cares enough to take time out of his day, time he's not paid for, to visit various forums and answer questions from the enthusiast community. And he doesn't go on a rage rant when he gets very rude, ridiculous messages (with Bulldozer's hype, you can imagine how many of those he's gotten). He deserves more appreciation than he gets.


Thanks!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Can someone tell me who JF is? He sounds like someone important. 


Nope, he is just a guy that likes technology. He posts for himself, not the company.


----------



## thenerdal

This site says that BD will be released on the 26th.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My word, I don't know whats worse... The trolls or the people responding to them.

How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking...

How long have you been with AMD, and how many launches have you been apart of? If more than one, which one was or has been your favorite product to work with?

If some of us at OCN chipped in and built you a decent overclocked and water cooled gaming rig (as a little kick back for your time spent here, both the good and the bad) for home use with a few steam games on it like BFBC2 would you play with us?


I doubt this guy plays games. Why would you ship this guy a water cooled rig to play games with you?







Odd.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am 46, I have been with AMD for 5+ years and have been in the server world for more than 20 years. My favorite product was the compaq racks that we launched in 1994. That was a fundamental shift in the computing world.

If you guys built me an overclocked system, it wouldn't be any good for me. I surf the web, upload pics of biking and do you finances in quicken. I am the worst candidate for overclocking.

I am a gamer, but I prefer the wii.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Enthusiasts are a small part of the market. While you might not be buying AMD client CPUs, people are, because we picked up market share.


Then care to explain how setting a release date is going to stall CPU sales?? Release of enthusiast CPUs wont affect other markets like servrer cpus. And since nobody is buying enthusiast AMD cpus, how will it stall sales any more than the prolonged delay of an architecture that can actually compete with intel?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


This site says that BD will be released on the 26th.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp


I would say take this with a pile of salt, but no. Maybe a truckload of salt? Nah.

Take it with an entire salt mine.


----------



## BigCactus

I believe stock clocks on the 8 core bulldozer will be 3.8ghz, and clock for clock, it will be faster than the 2600k depending on the program.

This is all speculation, but it's pretty concrete speculation.

Edit: What is sad is that this leaves the door open for Intel with Ivy Bridge to have the first 4.0ghz stock clock cpu.









This makes me and JF not too happy.


----------



## Vispor

JF-AMD, you are the greatest. It brings me much pain to see so many selfish people on this board, who don't care/understand about AMD as a business. I fully understand why AMD is not saying a word about the launch. People just want the information and screw anyone that could be harmed by said leak of information. You are truly a wise man, with patience and a cool head.

I'm at the point now where I am cheering on AMD. Bulldozer could be slower than my 1055T, but I'd still buy it. Seeing all the crap you and the company are going through in this extremely important time for the AMD. I wish I could work for AMD and fight the good fight along your side. (Any sales positions open? *hint hint*)

The haters in this thread make it not AMD Vs. Intel, but good Vs. evil. Not saying intel is evil, just saying AMD is trying to run an honest business and the selfish people of the world are trying to take it down.

I salute you JF.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Then care to explain how setting a release date is going to stall CPU sales?? Release of enthusiast CPUs wont affect other markets like servrer cpus. And since nobody is buying enthusiast AMD cpus, how will it stall sales any more than the prolonged delay of an architecture that can actually compete with intel?


I agree. I don't see how a Launch Date will stall sales. It will increase them, imo.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Then care to explain how setting a release date is going to stall CPU sales?? Release of enthusiast CPUs wont affect other markets like servrer cpus. And since nobody is buying enthusiast AMD cpus, how will it stall sales any more than the prolonged delay of an architecture that can actually compete with intel?


Read the FAQ. Enthusiasts are a very small part of the market, single digits. The real issue is not if enthusiasts buy or don't buy, but the impact to OEM supply chains.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vispor*


JF-AMD, you are the greatest. It brings me much pain to see so many selfish people on this board, who don't care/understand about AMD as a business. I fully understand why AMD is not saying a word about the launch. People just want the information and screw anyone that could be harmed by said leak of information. You are truly a wise man, with patience and a cool head.

I'm at the point now where I am cheering on AMD. Bulldozer could be slower than my 1055T, but I'd still buy it. Seeing all the crap you and the company are going through in this extremely important time for the AMD. I wish I could work for AMD and fight the good fight along your side. (Any sales positions open? *hint hint*)

The haters in this thread make it not AMD Vs. Intel, but good Vs. evil. Not saying intel is evil, just saying AMD is trying to run an honest business and the selfish people of the world are trying to take it down.

I salute you JF.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk


Nope, I am just a guy. There are probably always sales positions available. I am hiring for a server guy to work in austin.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vispor*


JF-AMD, you are the greatest. It brings me much pain to see so many selfish people on this board, who don't care/understand about AMD as a business. I fully understand why AMD is not saying a word about the launch. People just want the information and screw anyone that could be harmed by said leak of information. You are truly a wise man, with patience and a cool head.

I'm at the point now where I am cheering on AMD. Bulldozer could be slower than my 1055T, but I'd still buy it. Seeing all the crap you and the company are going through in this extremely important time for the AMD. I wish I could work for AMD and fight the good fight along your side. (Any sales positions open? *hint hint*)

The haters in this thread make it not AMD Vs. Intel, but good Vs. evil. Not saying intel is evil, just saying AMD is trying to run an honest business and the selfish people of the world are trying to take it down.

I salute you JF.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk


I couldn't have said it better.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am 46, I have been with AMD for 5+ years and have been in the server world for more than 20 years. My favorite product was the compaq racks that we launched in 1994. That was a fundamental shift in the computing world.

If you guys built me an overclocked system, it wouldn't be any good for me. I surf the web, upload pics of biking and do you finances in quicken. I am the worst candidate for overclocking.

I am a gamer, but I prefer the wii.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Enthusiasts are a small part of the market. While you might not be buying AMD client CPUs, people are, because we picked up market share.


As much as I want the specs I can appreciate amd's business strategy on keeping a tight lid. Wish AMD came out with the first processor to run 4.0ghz at stock though, why let Intel have all that glory? Or maybe bulldozer will run at 4.0ghz from the factory as a surprise? Hmmmm...


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Read the FAQ. Enthusiasts are a very small part of the market, single digits. The real issue is not if enthusiasts buy or don't buy, but the impact to OEM supply chains.


So setting a release date for enthusiast CPU is going to affect OEM supply chains???

How does that even work?? arent OEM sales contractual anyway?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


I agree. I don't see how a Launch Date will stall sales. It will increase them, imo.


A launch date will stall the sales of the CPU's currently on the market. Instead of buying now,people will play the waiting game.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Read the FAQ. Enthusiasts are a very small part of the market, single digits. The real issue is not if enthusiasts buy or don't buy, but the impact to OEM supply chains.
.


So if enthusiasts are less than 10% of the market,then it wouldn't really matter if consumer BD were to be successful or not?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Or could it be that it's launching on September 6 so AMD nor Gigabyte care?


Yeah it could be. By Gigabyte releasing these numbers and info has just poured gasoline onto this thread fire. I'm going to sit back and roast marshmellows.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


A launch date will stall the sales of the CPU's currently on the market. Instead of buying now,people will play the waiting game.

So if enthusiasts are less than 10% of the market,then it wouldn't really matter if consumer BD were to be successful or not?


Enthusiasts are currently not buying now and waiting for BD either way.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Guys, like JF-AMD has stated, I suggest you all to go take a read at the FAQ that he kindly put together for you. It's stickied here, and its also linked to in the OP of this Blog.

I also STRONGLY recommend that you all go and re-read the ToS that you agreed to when signing up here. The amount of cleaning we've had to do in this thread is ridiculous. I'm not here cleaning this time...but just throwing it out there.

Remember, XD, myself, and all the other moderators...we're no different than the rest of you. We're here to help OCN and post useful information. We can't do that if we're constantly being dragged in here to clean this thread.


----------



## Vispor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Read the FAQ. Enthusiasts are a very small part of the market, single digits. The real issue is not if enthusiasts buy or don't buy, but the impact to OEM supply chains.

Nope, I am just a guy. There are probably always sales positions available. I am hiring for a server guy to work in austin.


Haha thanks, I may look into that. Been needing a change for a while.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


A launch date will stall the sales of the CPU's currently on the market. Instead of buying now,people will play the waiting game.


But like i said, Almost all enthusiats are buying intel cpus atm. A launch date will stall intel sales more than AMD sales.


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Enthusiasts are currently not buying now and waiting for BD either way.


I'm an enthusiast and i just bought. Highly overclocked 955 to a 2500K and i'm sorry i didn't upgrade sooner.

I hope BD does great. It just wasn't worth the wait anymore.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


But like i said, Almost all enthusiats are buying intel cpus atm. A launch date will stall intel sales more than AMD sales.


It would be the same either way,as long as there is a delay and the product does not hit shelves,it hurts AMD and Intel keeps laughing all the way to the bank.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Enthusiasts are currently not buying now and waiting for BD either way.


Some enthusiasts are waiting,most are buying from the "other" guys while AMD stocks continue to drop.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


So setting a release date for enthusiast CPU is going to affect OEM supply chains???

How does that even work?? arent OEM sales contractual anyway?


OEM contract sales,which AMD only gets a fraction of compared to Intel.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I'm an enthusiast and i just bought. Highly overclocked 955 to a 2500K and i'm sorry i didn't upgrade sooner.

I hope BD does great. It just wasn't worth the wait anymore.


Yeah we got your point like 2 or 3 pages ago.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Good for you! Here, I'll even help you find new Intel friends:
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/
Enjoy!


Hahaha,so true!
















Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I don't even remember posting about it










Your post below is from page 394.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Silas*


I hope BD is amazing. I just couldn't wait anymore


----------



## Silas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Yeah we got your point like 2 or 3 pages ago.


I don't even remember posting about it


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


But like i said, Almost all enthusiats are buying intel cpus atm. A launch date will stall intel sales more than AMD sales.


Stalling doesn't really do too much good, because if people are disappointed in Bulldozer, then they will just go with Intel any way. Just delaying the inevitable - I know I will go Intel if Bulldozer flops. I'm in no rush however, because I really don't need Bulldozer, a 2600k, etc. any time soon.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Not giving out a release date is a necessary Evil







in business. 
Damn if you do and damn if you don't.

AMD will ship BD based CPUs when it's ready. 
Right now I think they are just gearing up for a hard launch.


----------



## Canis-X

I think that AMD has us all right where they want us. We are glued to news reports and forums dieing to see what's been leaked or released. I think that they are using us to hype it up and I am hopeful that when they do release it we are all going to be amazed by the performance of their new arch. They hold all the chips and they know it. I just wish that they would hurry up already....LOL









JF....I know how you felt with that bike ride. I had just gotten my bike all tuned up and started a trail ride with a buddy of mine from work. We got 3 miles into an 8 mile ride and I went over a jump. I landed wrong, veered left and couldn't pull out of it, ran right into a tree. I bent up my front rim so bad that I couldn't ride it back to my truck so I had to walk it back on the rear wheel.....sucked. What was worse is that I slammed my knee into the neck of the handle bars and swelled up my knee pretty bad....good cut too, it was bleeding all down my leg. Oh well, we went and got another rim, installed it and went back to the trail that day....LOL.....good times.


----------



## Usario

JF, regarding the TDP Power Cap on the upcoming Bulldozer Opterons... this means you'll only be able to decrease the TDP instead of raise it, correct?


----------



## Schmuckley

i tell ya what..and you can take this to the bank..if AMD had released bulldozer on june 6th..i would not be on an intel platform right now..i bought my stuff june 9th..after waiting all year for the bulldozer release.i hope they got it right.i do have faith in amd


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;14814291*
> i tell ya what..and you can take this to the bank..if AMD had released bulldozer on june 6th..i would not be on an intel platform right now..i bought my stuff june 9th..after waiting all year for the bulldozer release.i hope they got it right.i do have faith in amd


You are right. They knew that what they had then was not going to be profitable to release. Heck might even have downright killed their cpu future. I can understand the whole "no release date" thing. Mainly because I know they have no idea when they are going to get it right.


----------



## Shahzad7

The only reason I think AMD would be withholding information regarding Bulldozer processors (such as benchmarks or launch dates) is because in the most likely scenario, as soon as Bulldozer is released; Intel will drop the price of 2500k/2600k. The reason Intel's waiting for that is because both of those processors are currently outstanding and Intel want's to make the most profit on them for as long as they can, and continue to gain customers even after Bulldozer launches by doing a price cut. AMD's in a tight situation, so I can understand not releasing the release date or benchmarks or explicit details.

Whether or not if they Bulldozer processors are better than the 2500k/2600k, well that we'll have to wait and find out for.

Although, it is tempting to forget about bulldozer and go straight for a 2500k build :|.. but I have a feeling Bulldozer is going to be really good.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14812929*
> Enthusiasts are a small part of the market. While you might not be buying AMD client CPUs, people are, because we picked up market share.


It's at least something positive for AMD, that 1.5% came from Fusion.

AMD needs major help in the server market share though.







Right now, that's borderline a Monopoly. Bulldozer should make an impact here.
Quote:


> *AMD's Share Soars, Thanks to Fusion*
> 
> In Q2 2011, Intel commanded 79.3% overall worldwide unit market share, a loss of 1.5% compared to Q1 2011. In Q2 2011, AMD shipped 20.4% of x86 chips, a gain of 1.5% compared to Q1 2011. Via Technologies unit market share was 0.3%.
> 
> By form-factors the rankings in Q2 2011 were the following:
> 
> In the desktop PC processor segment, Intel commanded 70.9% of the market's volume, a loss of 1.5%, while AMD managed to increase its share by 1.5% to 28.9%.
> 
> Intel lost 1.9% share in the mobile PC processor segment and had 84.4% market, whereas AMD finished with 15.2%, a gain of 1.8%. Via Technologies shipped 0.4% of mobile microprocessors during the quarter.
> 
> *In the PC server/workstation processor segment, Intel finished with 94.5% market share, a gain of 0.6%, while AMD lost the same volume and only had 5.5% share in the critical segment of the market.*
> 
> Apparently, the increased popularity of chips with integrated graphics as well as competitive offerings for both desktops and laptops, allowed AMD to get back 1.5% overall CPU market share from Intel. With the increased shipments of Fusion accelerated processing units in Q3 and the launch of Bulldozer FX-series CPUs late in the quarter, the company has chances to further improve its sales and market share.


Anyone know where to find stats about the Enthusiast market share? I've been curious to know exactly how small we really are, and how everything breaks down.

If it's really single digits, why does Intel cater to this market with 1366 & the upcoming SB-E processors. It would also explain the lack of love we sometimes feel from AMD, since we're a single digit importance in the whole grand scheme of things.

That also explains why AMD made sure to show off Llano ahead of time before its launch, since it's got a greater effect on the company.

Looking at the Desktop PC market share, it's currently 70.9% to 28.9%, and like I said, the 1.5% bump came from Fusion.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14813152*
> Read the FAQ. Enthusiasts are a very small part of the market, single digits. The real issue is not if enthusiasts buy or don't buy, but the impact to OEM supply chains.


Thanks John! Much is said, w/o saying much









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14813385*
> But like i said, Almost all enthusiats are buying intel cpus atm. A launch date will stall intel sales more than AMD sales.


Not really, there are many a person on enthusiast sites sporting 990FX boards just waiting for the release. Your arguments have been posted thousands of times in both this, and many other threads...as have the replies (extremely conservative estimate, there have probably been that many deleted from this thread alone).

You're not going to change their (AMD's) mind concerning their business stratagem, so what exactly are you hoping to accomplish with this? They will release it (and info concerning it) when they are ready to, and there is no sense in arguing with them about it.


----------



## thenerdal

Hey, I have a question. Is an AM3 CPU compatible with an AM3+ Socket?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14814976*
> Hey, I have a question. Is an AM3 CPU compatible with an AM3+ Socket?


Yes.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14814988*
> Yes.


Thanks.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14814794*
> Thanks John! Much is said, w/o saying much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, there are many a person on enthusiast sites sporting 990FX boards just waiting for the release. Your arguments have been posted thousands of times in both this, and many other threads...as have the replies (extremely conservative estimate, there have probably been that many deleted from this thread alone).
> 
> You're not going to change their (AMD's) mind concerning their business stratagem, so what exactly are you hoping to accomplish with this? They will release it (and info concerning it) when they are ready to, and there is no sense in arguing with them about it.


Well you must be the only person who actually think many people are buying 990FX waiting for BD. They are obviously AMD fanboys as it would be stupid to buy An already obsolete socket that will be replaced by FM2 next year, nor do we know if BD will even outperform SB. Whereas not only will 1155 support IB but SB is also currently significantly superior than any AMD ones.

Im not going to go thru hundreds of pages to doule check if my argumets have already been raised. Neither will you. So dun be hypocritical









Im just voicing my opinion, im not out to accomplish anything mate. Surely with the amount of post you have, you understand this????


----------



## StarDestroyer

apparently no BD questions are allowed


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14815498*
> Well you must be the only person who actually think many people are buying 990FX waiting for BD. They are obviously AMD fanboys as it would be stupid to buy An already obsolete socket that will be replaced by FM2 next year, nor do we know if BD will even outperform SB. Whereas not only will 1155 support IB but SB is also currently significantly superior than any AMD ones.
> 
> Im not going to go thru hundreds of pages to doule check if my argumets have already been raised. Neither will you. So dun be hypocritical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im just voicing my opinion, im not out to accomplish anything mate. Surely with the amount of post you have, you understand this????


Did you ever think people are buying 990FX to run SLI or to get better overclocks?
There is word that AM3+ will be around for a while. Even though there is the possibility that FM2 might be out next year,it will probably be for APU's first.
What makes 1155 so much better than AM3+ other than LGA or PCI-E 3.0?
Intel is only supporting IB on 1155 because when they have no competition they milk the crap out of essentially the same thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14815788*
> apparently no BD questions are allowed


What did you attempt to ask?


----------



## Canis-X

He wasn't asking anything, he was demanding that JF announce a new release date time frame. There is a BIG difference between asking and demanding.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14815844*
> Did you ever think people are buying 990FX to run SLI or to get better overclocks?
> There is word that AM3+ will be around for a while. Even though there is the possibility that FM2 might be out next year,it will probably be for APU's first.
> What makes 1155 so much better than AM3+ other than LGA or PCI-E 3.0?
> Intel is only supporting IB on 1155 because when they have no competition they milk the crap out of essentially the same thing.


So one poorly created table from a non-reputable source is credible enough? When every other chart made officially by AMD points towards a FM2 socket for komodo?

I'm not saying the socket itself is superior (which it is as well, ssds that saturate sata3 run significantly faster on intel also) but the CPUs that run on it is vastly superior. and 1155 provides a definite upgrade path.

i see no point purchasing something that is already obsolete, with no guarantee that it will even beat SB which has already been out for a fair while.

The actual reason Intel is putting IB support on 1155 is because IB is just a tock update (or is it tick







) so IB is just essentially a smaller die of the same architecture..So they dont necessarily have to implement a new socket.

But intel will still be releasing new chipsets early next year anyway (with native sata 3 and other bells and whistles).


----------



## maw784

well i can say i bought my am3+ mobo bc i wanted to run xfire now and use my current phenom2 cpu,,,my old mobo was am2+ and had one pcie slot...and at the same time i wanted to be sure i could use bulldozer when it came out,,,so it made no sense to not get a 900 series mobo and the damn thing is a steal for 100$

and if i wana run sli later it can do that too


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14815934*
> He wasn't asking anything, he was demanding that JF announce a new release date time frame. There is a BIG difference between asking and demanding.


something like that

As JF has said, AMD doesn't care about OCers, we are such a small % of users

they are late again, and no answers will be given


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14815498*
> Well you must be the only person who actually think many people are buying 990FX waiting for BD. They are obviously AMD fanboys as it would be stupid to buy An already obsolete socket that will be replaced by FM2 next year, nor do we know if BD will even outperform SB. Whereas not only will 1155 support IB but SB is also currently significantly superior than any AMD ones.
> 
> Im not going to go thru hundreds of pages to doule check if my argumets have already been raised. Neither will you. So dun be hypocritical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im just voicing my opinion, im not out to accomplish anything mate. Surely with the amount of post you have, you understand this????


No need to be defensive. But, you certainly could read just a few pages before your posts and see many others saying the exact same thing. That's not voicing an opinion. It's beating a dead horse.

Hypocritical isn't on the menu, I have read the entire thread. Which is why I rarely post in this thread. Not much applicable to say, and the questions I had have already been asked and answered. I don't expect everyone to do the exact same, but a slight bit of research might prove enlightening.

Your opinion on people not buying 990FX boards in preparation for Dozer is all kinds of off. There are many who purchased for BD, as well as for other reasons, and it has nothing to do w/ being as you called it a "fanboy". Mine own was getting rid of a board w/ a known problem w/ 6 cores and vrm's. However, if you'd like a reason why I'm using AMD, it's because I don't do business w/ underhanded crooked companies. As there isn't any other competitive cpu on the market, that kind of narrows the field a bit. Whether it's at the overall top of the dung heap, means little to me.

You may want to check the news section where it's already been reported for 2 days that AM3+'s life has been possibly extended into Komodo. Not that it matters much even if true, when FM2 arrives, I'll be sporting it as soon as it's available. You see, it really makes no impact as to whether a socket will be "dead" or not to me. I don't plan on upgrading parts on the same board anyway (gpu's being the only exception), aside from when the new socket/cpu comes out. I sell right before the new tech arrives. Which maximizes my returns on investments, and keeps me ahead of the game. So the reasoning is a little more broad than your narrow minded reply would lead others to believe.


----------



## el gappo

Won't catch me buying any 990fx board any time soon, why buy a board for a cpu that isn't out yet? Nobody has any idea which board is going to shine. They could all be total rubbish lol.

Curious as to what sapphire are working on.


----------



## Spicy61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14815788*
> apparently no BD questions are allowed


lol


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14816266*
> Curious as to what sapphire are working on.


All white PCB? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14816093*
> something like that
> 
> As JF has said, AMD doesn't care about OCers, we are such a small % of users
> 
> they are late again, and no answers will be given


AMD is out to make money, it's not about caring.

I think this blog has hit a wall, there is nothing else to ask about or talk about.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14816135*
> No need to be defensive. But, you certainly could read just a few pages before your posts and see many others saying the exact same thing. That's not voicing an opinion. It's beating a dead horse.
> 
> Hypocritical isn't on the menu, I have read the entire thread. Which is why I rarely post in this thread. Not much applicable to say, and the questions I had have already been asked and answered. I don't expect everyone to do the exact same, but a slight bit of research might prove enlightening.
> 
> Your opinion on people not buying 990FX boards in preparation for Dozer is all kinds of off. There are many who purchased for BD, as well as for other reasons, and it has nothing to do w/ being as you called it a "fanboy". Mine own was getting rid of a board w/ a known problem w/ 6 cores and vrm's. However, if you'd like a reason why I'm using AMD, it's because I don't do business w/ underhanded crooked companies. As there isn't any other competitive cpu on the market, that kind of narrows the field a bit. Whether it's at the overall top of the dung heap, means little to me.
> 
> You may want to check the news section where it's already been reported for 2 days that AM3+'s life has been possibly extended into Komodo. Not that it matters much even if true, when FM2 arrives, I'll be sporting it as soon as it's available. You see, it really makes no impact as to whether a socket will be "dead" or not to me. I don't plan on upgrading parts on the same board anyway (gpu's being the only exception), aside from when the new socket/cpu comes out. I sell right before the new tech arrives. Which maximizes my returns on investments, and keeps me ahead of the game. So the reasoning is a little more broad than your narrow minded reply would lead others to believe.


That news article and slide about extending am3+ was fake.


----------



## Benz

Intel is crooked and there's no doubt about this. We all know how intel threatened AMD in the past, how intel bribed all kinds of companies just to satisfy their own damn selfish needs. What makes you think they won't do it again if Bulldozer beats a crap out of sandy bridge and ivy bridge. I didn't write intel capitalized because they don't deserve that.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14816879*
> Intel is crooked and there's no doubt about this. We all know how intel threatened AMD in the past, how intel bribed all kinds of companies just to satisfy their own damn selfish needs. What makes you think they won't do it again if Bulldozer beats a crap out of sandy bridge and ivy bridge. I didn't write intel capitalized because they don't deserve that.


Oh Boy


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14816777*
> AMD is out to make money, it's not about caring.


Being out to make money without caring, that sounds more like a robbery.

Proper relations with customers actually contain some sort of care, not making fun of customers, not throwing statements on them, then not fulfilling them without taking trouble to explain what is going on and what is the current status etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14816777*
> I think this blog has hit a wall, there is nothing else to ask about or talk about.


I think you are quite correct. Questions cannot be answered, in some cases question even cannot be expressed.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14816902*
> Oh Boy


Yeah truth hurts doesn't it?









They have great CPUs there's no doubt about that either, but only because they bribed IBM to help them with Core 2 architecture, and that's a fact.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Actually Benz, for those of us who aren't 'Internet White Knights' like yourself it really don't matter to us.

If AMD is a better company, it still doesn't make you a better person.

I wish AMD the best for my sake, not theirs, and as someone already said this thread has pretty much run it's course and turned into a speculation/debate/troll haven.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14813199*
> So setting a release date for enthusiast CPU is going to affect OEM supply chains???
> 
> How does that even work?? arent OEM sales contractual anyway?


As soon as info comes out on new processors, EVERYONE sits on their hands and waits. If you aren't going to buy the enthusiast parts you still think that all prices will come down. It disrupts everything, not just the enthusiast parts.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14813275*
> A launch date will stall the sales of the CPU's currently on the market. Instead of buying now,people will play the waiting game.
> 
> So if enthusiasts are less than 10% of the market,then it wouldn't really matter if consumer BD were to be successful or not?


See above
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14814280*
> JF, regarding the TDP Power Cap on the upcoming Bulldozer Opterons... this means you'll only be able to decrease the TDP instead of raise it, correct?


No, it only reduces TDP
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14816093*
> something like that
> 
> As JF has said, AMD doesn't care about OCers, we are such a small % of users
> 
> they are late again, and no answers will be given


I never, ever said that. And I don't speak for the company.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14816912*
> Being out to make money without caring, that sounds more like a robbery.
> 
> Proper relations with customers actually contain some sort of care, not making fun of customers, not throwing statements on them, then not fulfilling them without taking trouble to explain what is going on and what is the current status etc.
> 
> I think you are quite correct. Questions cannot be answered, in some cases question even cannot be expressed.


I have answered all of the legitimate questions. You guys are well aware of the questions that I can't answer and why I cannot answer them. Continuing to ask them is not going to help.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> As soon as info comes out on new processors, EVERYONE sits on their hands and waits. If you aren't going to buy the enthusiast parts you still think that all prices will come down. It disrupts everything, not just the enthusiast parts.


I dont have a choice but to sit on my hands and wait. I just ordered the GIGABYTE GA-990XA-UD3 AM3+ for bulldozer. So get on the ball already lol j/k


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14813199*
> So setting a release date for enthusiast CPU is going to affect OEM supply chains???
> 
> How does that even work?? arent OEM sales contractual anyway?


Is the release date in question? I'm pretty sure it's September 26th. Not an official release date but...it's probably true. I guess with turbo mode amd processors will be the first to hit the 4.0ghz barrier:










I think all things considering, it might actually be better to wait until 2012 and see what else is in store with other Bulldzoer releases and Intel's Ivy Bridge in March 2012.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14817153*
> Is the release date in question? I'm pretty sure it's September 26th. Not an official release date but...it's probably true. I guess with turbo mode amd processors will be the first to hit the 4.0ghz barrier:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think all things considering, it might actually be better to wait until 2012 and see what else is in store with other Bulldzoer releases and Intel's Ivy Bridge in March 2012.


Reliable sources over at xs have been saying paper launch on Tuesday with mass availability in late october. Im not sure why or where the 26th came from.


----------



## el gappo

You guys be nice and eat your meat or you won't get any pudding.

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-related-news-information/235282-overclock-net-professionalism-initiative.html

This is about the only bulldozer discussion we are going to get so please don't go getting it locked down.. again.


----------



## Fr0sty

reliable sources such as?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14817260*
> You guys be nice and eat your meat or you won't get any pudding.


Well said my man, every post that is either bickering, trolling, or flaming, just adds another brick in the wall and pretty soon that wall will block all of us from posting in this thread.

Edit: forgot to


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14817278*
> reliable sources such as?


Sources who in the past have leaked accurate NDA information. I'd love for the chips to be out tuesday or in 3 weeks but there is no information out there pointing to that date except Wikipedia.

I read last night that the Opteron 6200's would be hitting an online retailers warehouse in November now.


----------



## BigCactus

Well that settles it, I'll just wait for March 2012 before upgrading that way I can at least see how Intel's Ivy Bridge is going to turn out.









Can't wait for the Bulldozer benchmarks however...


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14817426*
> Well that settles it, I'll just wait for March 2012 before upgrading that way I can at least see how Intel's Ivy Bridge is going to turn out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait for the Bulldozer benchmarks however...


We're all waiting for Ivy Bridge. Should be a pretty amazing chip. 5.5Ghz overclocks on air


----------



## sumonpathak

^^^that's possible on SB too...so whats so great about it?


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumonpathak;14817500*
> ^^^that's possible on SB too...so whats so great about it?


I guess you missed the point when i said on "Air". Bloomfield needed a D14 to go over 4Ghz on air. Now guys are over 5Ghz with a Hyper 212+. It's a great progression.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14817426*
> Well that settles it, I'll just wait for March 2012 before upgrading that way I can at least see how Intel's Ivy Bridge is going to turn out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait for the Bulldozer benchmarks however...


And then you will wait for komodo and then haswell and then BD extreme and then.....whatever comes after


----------



## sumonpathak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817511*
> I guess you missed the point when i said on "Air". Bloomfield needed a D14 to go over 4Ghz on air. Now guys are over 5Ghz with a Hyper 212+. It's a great progression.


err...even 5.5ghz is also possible on air....5ghz on hyper 212+ is not advisable...except for nutcases like me


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817379*
> Sources who in the past have leaked accurate NDA information. I'd love for the chips to be out tuesday or in 3 weeks but there is no information out there pointing to that date except Wikipedia.
> 
> I read last night that the Opteron 6200's would be hitting an online retailers warehouse in November now.


can you share the link of said reliable person


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14817758*
> can you share the link of said reliable person


I thought i posted it a few pages back. Let me find it for you frosty

September 6th = NDA Ends/Paper Launch
Availability = Mid October
Quote:


> There is a presentation under NDA planned on 6th september but launch is more for around mid-october according to trustworthy sources.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940688&viewfull=1#post4940688

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940705&viewfull=1#post4940705


----------



## Fr0sty

you call olivon a reliable source ...

might as well call everyone else a reliable source while we are at it


----------



## MrHyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817799*
> I thought i posted it a few pages back. Let me find it for you frosty
> 
> September 6th = NDA Ends/Paper Launch
> Availability = Mid October
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940688&viewfull=1#post4940688
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940705&viewfull=1#post4940705


http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1107646-bulldozer-pre-launch-faq.html

Specifically you might want to look at;

Q. I read on xyz site that you were launching on xxxxx?A. Yeah, and I read on another site that elvis was still alive. The reason I don't comment on date rumors is that there are a limited number of days in the quarter. Once you say no to some, and suddenly say "no comment" or don't answer that one, immediately everyone thinks that is the date. So, no matter how crazy it sounds, you can't answer any of them.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14815498*
> Well you must be the only person who actually think many people are buying 990FX waiting for BD. They are obviously AMD fanboys as it would be stupid to buy An already obsolete socket that will be replaced by FM2 next year, nor do we know if BD will even outperform SB. Whereas not only will 1155 support IB but SB is also currently significantly superior than any AMD ones.
> 
> Im not going to go thru hundreds of pages to doule check if my argumets have already been raised. Neither will you. So dun be hypocritical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im just voicing my opinion, im not out to accomplish anything mate. Surely with the amount of post you have, you understand this????


lol, wow. There's TONS of people buying 990FX in anticipation.

Obsolete? Yeah, cause Ivy Bridge is going to be more than ~10% faster than SB








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14815788*
> apparently no BD questions are allowed


You did not ask questions, you "demanded answers" to some undefined question and then begged for information that we had repeatedly told you you will not get.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14815991*
> So one poorly created table from a non-reputable source is credible enough? When every other chart made officially by AMD points towards a FM2 socket for komodo?
> 
> I'm not saying the socket itself is superior (which it is as well, ssds that saturate sata3 run significantly faster on intel also) but the CPUs that run on it is vastly superior. and 1155 provides a definite upgrade path.
> 
> i see no point purchasing something that is already obsolete, with no guarantee that it will even beat SB which has already been out for a fair while.
> 
> The actual reason Intel is putting IB support on 1155 is because IB is just a tock update (or is it tick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) so IB is just essentially a smaller die of the same architecture..So they dont necessarily have to implement a new socket.
> 
> But intel will still be releasing new chipsets early next year anyway (with native sata 3 and other bells and whistles).


Anyone could've made those charts; just because the people who made the FM2 ones actually got their info right doesn't mean that it's real.

"Definite upgrade path"... this is akin to buying a Prescott to upgrade to Cedar Mill (yes, I know Conroe was also on 775, but that's not related to my point...). Difference? Yes. Big difference? No. Will your future upgrade be faster than what the competition will be offering in a couple weeks? Probably not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14816093*
> something like that
> 
> As JF has said, AMD doesn't care about OCers, we are such a small % of users
> 
> they are late again, and no answers will be given


Don't put words in his mouth, and stop being so childish.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14816879*
> Intel is crooked and there's no doubt about this. We all know how intel threatened AMD in the past, how intel bribed all kinds of companies just to satisfy their own damn selfish needs. What makes you think they won't do it again if Bulldozer beats a crap out of sandy bridge and ivy bridge. I didn't write intel capitalized because they don't deserve that.


Saying "this!" in response would be an understatement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817432*
> We're all waiting for Ivy Bridge.


Speak for yourself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817799*
> I thought i posted it a few pages back. Let me find it for you frosty
> 
> September 6th = NDA Ends/Paper Launch
> Availability = Mid October
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940688&viewfull=1#post4940688
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4940705&viewfull=1#post4940705


How many times do I have to say this goes against what JF-AMD said?

*Launch date on the launch date.*


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

JF-AMD I was wondering and forgive me if this has been answered already, or if it is one of those things you can not talk about right now. It has been said that, BD's memory controller is rated at 1866Mhz, I am curious will BD benefit more from 1866 RAM, and if it does benefit would the benefits be slim compared to using 1600Mhz?


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817432*
> We're all waiting for Ivy Bridge. Should be a pretty amazing chip. 5.5Ghz overclocks on air


How do you know we'll see 5.5Ghz overclocks on air?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumonpathak;14817500*
> ^^^that's possible on SB too...so whats so great about it?


No.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14818588*
> How do you know we'll see 5.5Ghz overclocks on air?


Because we can already hit 5Ghz on air now at 32nm. With 22nm should be a snap


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14818742*
> Because we can already hit 5Ghz on air now at 32nm. With 22nm should be a snap


Lower node doesn't really guarantee higher overclocking.


----------



## sumonpathak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14818588*
> No.


erm....ya......


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;14817561*
> And then you will wait for komodo and then haswell and then BD extreme and then.....whatever comes after


Hypocritical much? You said AM3+ is obsolete so wait for FM2,now you're saying why wait?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14816961*
> Yeah truth hurts doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have great CPUs there's no doubt about that either, but only because they bribed IBM to help them with Core 2 architecture, and that's a fact.


IBM makes great tech,though it's funny how Intel gets all the credit for it.
It makes me wonder if IBM helped out AMD with Bulldozer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817432*
> We're all waiting for Ivy Bridge. Should be a pretty amazing chip. 5.5Ghz overclocks on air


IB is only a die shrink,also keep in mind this is a AMD thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14816879*
> Intel is crooked and there's no doubt about this. We all know how intel threatened AMD in the past, how intel bribed all kinds of companies just to satisfy their own damn selfish needs. What makes you think they won't do it again if Bulldozer beats a crap out of sandy bridge and ivy bridge. I didn't write intel capitalized because they don't deserve that.


All I have to say this is well.... ^this.


----------



## sumonpathak

@silas
where are you from bro?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14818588*
> How do you know we'll see 5.5Ghz overclocks on air?
> 
> No.




















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14818798*
> Lower node doesn't really guarantee higher overclocking.


Based on Intel's history, it does.

Just looking at the latest...

From 45nm to 32nm higher overclocks are possible. Proof is in the pudding.

With Nehalem, you need water cooling to get past 4.0 - 4.2.

Sandy Bridge does 4.5 - 5.0 on air with ease.


----------



## Silas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14818809*
> IB is only a die shrink,also keep in mind this is a AMD thread.


Whats your point? I was responding to another poster who brought it up.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;14818588*
> How do you know we'll see 5.5Ghz overclocks on air?
> 
> No.


he doesnt know ...

and they are poor assumptions


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;6908306*
> *Q. Is IPC higher on bulldozer? All I care about is IPC* A. IPC is simply a measurement. What if IPC was 2X what it is today
> but clock speed was 500MHz. Is that what you want? You are getting double IPC, right? IPC is only one measure. The people
> that are telling you IPC is the only thing that matters have an agenda. Taking only one measurement out of context, is like trying
> to say that a person's weight is all that matters. I weigh 195. Does that make me fat? Does that make me skinny? It is impossible
> to say unless you know my height. IPC is like weight - it tells you something in context to other factors, but is meaningless on its own.
> 
> *Q. What about single threaded performance?* A. See above. Also, if all you care about is single threaded performance
> might I recommend a lovely, inexpensive single core processor for your system?


@JF-AMD
These answers have me worried a bit.the question is "Is IPC higher on Bulldozer",But above you dont even answer the question you wrote?in the past you have said IPC will be higher.....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;4531177*
> How many times do I have to tell you that bulldozer has higher IPC than our current architecture?


was this just pertaining to BD vs PhenomII since you said current Arch?
ive noticed on alot of forums in the last 2-3 weeks a big push back on focusing on IPC,and what has me worried is whether this means BD(might) have not the IPC you(AMD) have hoped for(cant compete vs SB)

or maybe i'm reading too much into this?


----------



## Stevedwnng

I did see an article today claiming 5.1Ghz on air with "engineering sample" FX-8150. Honestly, in searching thru so many web site claims, I don't know what it true. For me personally the exact numbers really don't matter as BD is obviously going to be better then Phenom II. That's good enough for me. I'm a gamer, and all I really care about is that I can play my games at max settings smoothly. Above that you reach a point where additional gains in frame rates is useless. At least for me, as everyone does different things with their pc. So you get 20fps more with an Intel rig. I'm not constantly transcoding video or heavy 3D modeling, so dumping an additional $1,000 into a pc build just so I can get the highest possible fps is meaningless to me. I'm not a huge fan of Intel given their business practices. I'm all for favoring the underdog, especially when they can compete with big corporate giants. If BD doesn't beat SB in benchmarks I really don't care. I'm still getting new and better tech over phenom II. In the end it may not matter if BD "beats" SB in benchmarks, as long as it can "compete" with it I think BD will be a success. Especially if it's closer in performance to SB then Phenom II was to i7. What exactly BD will do remains to be seen. All it boils down to at this point is speculation. It's a waiting game plain and simple. As for AMD not releasing information, I personally think it would be foolish for AMD to release sensitive information ahead of launch. That would just give Intel more of an edge knowing early on where they stand against bulldozer giving them more time to plan accordingly. It's like an army releasing their strategic plan to the enemy before the battle. Does a football coach release his game plays to the other team before the game? I just don't see what demanding info from AMD gains, or slamming them for not doing so in that case. I will be building a new BD rig as I have been looking forward to doing so for a long time now. I might even wait a bit longer for the 7000 series gpu and PCIe 3.0. Having a BD processor and a pair of crossfired AMD 7000 series graphics cards, will be more then enough for me to carry on for the next 5+ years at least. I'll have all the newest goodies such as USB 3.0., SATA III, PCIe 3.0, ect and it'll handle everything I can throw at it without breaking a sweat and just keep on laughing. It will carry me thru the next 2 or 3 tech cycles at least. I'm not one that drops a grand or more just to have the latest and greatest. I'm still plugging along with a 1.8Ghz quad core Phenom and a 5000 series Radeon. It'll play anything including Crysis without a hitch. So maybe your Intel rig will give you a few more fps, but when I own you on BF3 what did you really gain in the end, other then bragging rights and wasted money? Obviously some hardware is better for certain software depending on what your doing. But all those Intel fanboys slamming AMD saying their CPU's are far superior might soon get a wake-up call. I support AMD, and I really hope that BD, BDv2, Piledriver, Komodo, ect, becomes a serious threat to Intel in the future.


----------



## 2010rig

For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.

Check this out.



9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.

Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?

I think not.

I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.

I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14818809*
> IB is only a die shrink,also keep in mind this is a AMD thread.


There will be architecture changes with IB as well. How extensive hasn't been said, but it's not just a die shrink.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14819190*
> For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.
> 
> Check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.
> 
> Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.
> 
> I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


and then when you take that 9% enthusiast market and weed out the ones who dont come to forums and ask/demand info its more like 0.5% that seem to need and want the answers,like at each forum there are maybe 5-15 posters who complain about lack of info,so in the grand scheme of things AMD doesn't and shouldn't cater to these information vacuum monsters,they are the super minority

i'm probably one of them but i cant help it


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


@JF-AMD
These answers have me worried a bit.the question is "Is IPC higher on Bulldozer",But above you dont even answer the question you wrote?in the past you have said IPC will be higher.....

was this just pertaining to BD vs PhenomII since you said current Arch?
ive noticed on alot of forums in the last 2-3 weeks a big push back on focusing on IPC,and what has me worried is whether this means BD(might) have not the IPC you(AMD) have hoped for(cant compete vs SB)

or maybe i'm reading too much into this?


Was that really quoted by JF? Clicking the quote link takes me to another thread that doesn't have that post in it. I really hope this is BS because the answer he provided to both of those questions is absolutely pathetic.

Edit: I see it was from here http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

.....


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

JF-AMD I was wondering and forgive me if this has been answered already, or if it is one of those things you can not talk about right now. It has been said that, BD's memory controller is rated at 1866Mhz, I am curious will BD benefit more from 1866 RAM, and if it does benefit would the benefits be slim compared to using 1600Mhz?

I apologize for asking again but my question/post was buried by Ivy Bridge post.


----------



## Madmanden

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


he doesnt know ...

and they are poor assumptions


Poor assumptions? At least he has prior examples to base his assumptions on - what do you have, besides 'because I don't want it to'?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Madmanden*


Poor assumptions? At least he has prior examples to base his assumptions on - what do you have, besides 'because I don't want it to'?



so because of intel's past its future is set in stones??

LOL


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.

Check this out.



9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.

Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?

I think not.

I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.

I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


I wish this would shut people up, but they just like to whine.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


Was that really quoted by JF? Clicking the quote link takes me to another thread that doesn't have that post in it. I really hope this is BS because the answer he provided to both of those questions is absolutely pathetic.

Edit: I see it was from here http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

.....










It's not pathetic. It's true.

And it's probably all his lawyers will allow him to say anyway.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14816867*
> That news article and slide about extending am3+ was fake.


As I noted in the quoted post of mine, it doesn't matter whether the socket is dead, or the slide a fake. I'll be selling right before the FM2 boards are released, so it doesn't affect me at all. It only affects those that think that buying the newest and fastest arch that a manufacturer puts out, would perform the best in an older board. Which someone else was trying to argue earlier. Personally, I think gimping your brand new cpu with an older gen mobo is foolhardy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14818809*
> Hypocritical much? You said AM3+ is obsolete so wait for FM2,now you're saying why wait?


Exactly.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14820750*
> so because of intel's past its future is set in stones??
> 
> LOL


Did you see post 4018

Instead of being so closed minded all the time, why don't you do some research on the matter? Here:
http://www.slashgear.com/intel-ivy-bridge-official-22nm-3d-tri-gate-to-revolutionize-processors-04150147/

Based on Intel's past, yes, it's very likely that higher overclocks will be attained at 22nm vs 32nm. That is if you're looking at it from a logical perspective. Ivy Bridge is not just a die shrink, how do I know? The link above has the answers.

Unless you can show solid evidence that Ivy Bridge will clock worse or the same as Sandy Bridge, all information points to the fact that it will clock and perform better than Sandy Bridge.

Just like it's logical to think that BD will achieve higher overclocks at 32nm, vs phenom II at 45nm. Looking at the little info we have, I'd say yes, Bulldozer will overclock higher than Phenom II.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


It's not pathetic. It's true.

And it's probably all his lawyers will allow him to say anyway.


 He's supporting his arguments with unrealistic BS like a 500mhz CPU to downplay the importance of IPC and a single core CPU to downplay the importance of single threaded performance.

stupid.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.

Check this out.



9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.

Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?

I think not.

I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.

I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


But having the best performing hardware on the enthusiast end does translate into more sales in the mainstream market. So that 9% is a bit deceiving don't you think...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14821035*
> But having the best performing hardware on the enthusiast end does translate into more sales in the mainstream market. So that 9% is a bit deceiving don't you think...


Completely agree.


----------



## jagz

Bulldozer is a myth, Isn't it?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Did you see post 4018

Instead of being so closed minded all the time, why don't you do some research on the matter? Here:
http://www.slashgear.com/intel-ivy-b...sors-04150147/

Based on Intel's past, yes, it's very likely that higher overclocks will be attained at 22nm vs 32nm. That is if you're looking at it from a logical perspective. Ivy Bridge is not just a die shrink, how do I know? The link above has the answers.

Unless you can show solid evidence that Ivy Bridge will clock worse or the same as Sandy Bridge, all information points to the fact that it will clock and perform better than Sandy Bridge.

Just like it's logical to think that BD will achieve higher overclocks at 32nm, vs phenom II at 45nm. Looking at the little info we have, I'd say yes, Bulldozer will overclock higher than Phenom II.



i love that nothing you mentioned really shows us any real truth about intel's 22nm transistors ... all you mentioned is 32nm and 45nm stuff ... not 22nm intel technologie ...

once you show me real 22nm intel chip overclocking in the real world to back up those claims i will believe you ... otherwise its not facts


----------



## Vispor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


He's supporting his arguments with unrealistic BS like a 500mhz CPU to downplay the importance of IPC and a single core CPU to downplay the importance of single threaded performance.

stupid.


AMD will always be jack of all trades and master of none. That's why I buy AMD. I do a little bit of gaming, and a little bit of video and a whole lot of internet. No need for me to spend big dollars on an Intel system. Granted now, SB is the better buy, but I bought my 1055t, when SB was still 6 months away.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


JF-AMD I was wondering and forgive me if this has been answered already, or if it is one of those things you can not talk about right now. It has been said that, BD's memory controller is rated at 1866Mhz, I am curious will BD benefit more from 1866 RAM, and if it does benefit would the benefits be slim compared to using 1600Mhz?


I don't know the client memory. I know we support 1600 on server.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


@JF-AMD
These answers have me worried a bit.the question is "Is IPC higher on Bulldozer",But above you dont even answer the question you wrote?in the past you have said IPC will be higher.....

was this just pertaining to BD vs PhenomII since you said current Arch?
ive noticed on alot of forums in the last 2-3 weeks a big push back on focusing on IPC,and what has me worried is whether this means BD(might) have not the IPC you(AMD) have hoped for(cant compete vs SB)

or maybe i'm reading too much into this?


First, you are probably reading too much into this.

Secondly, IPC is not a stock measurement, it has a lot to do with the software application that is running, compiler optimizations, etc. 2 systems could have different IPC just by the virtue of the application that is running. It is all about optimization.

So, when you ask "will IPC be higher" that is such a loaded question that I stay away from it. In addition, too many people are basing too many decisions on a simple IPC number. Would you rather have a 3GHz system with 1.6 IPC or a 1GHz system with 5.0 IPC? IPC is only one half of a metric, alone, by itself, it has little relevance.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.

Check this out.



9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.

Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?

I think not.

I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.

I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


I had been saying 6%, which I read in a different report. Ultimately, whether it is 6 or 9, it is a single digit slice of the market.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


He's supporting his arguments with unrealistic BS like a 500mhz CPU to downplay the importance of IPC and a single core CPU to downplay the importance of single threaded performance.

stupid.


That was to make a point. Sometimes you have to push the level of absurdity to help people understand the point that you are trying to make. Turning up the contrast helps put it in perspective.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


But having the best performing hardware on the enthusiast end does translate into more sales in the mainstream market. So that 9% is a bit deceiving don't you think...










Not necessarily. Close to 80% of the market falls into the "processor unaware" category. either they do not understand the differences or there is something other than processor that is driving the purchase (i.e. HD size, memory, screen, PC brand, etc.) It is a fallacy to think that winning a benchmark in a game will translate into other people that don't care about that game suddenly wanting to consider it.

For instance, if I told you that AMD wiped the floor with SB in Farmville by 50%, would that make you buy it? Probably not.


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14818842*
> Based on Intel's history, it does.
> 
> Just looking at the latest...
> 
> From 45nm to 32nm higher overclocks are possible. Proof is in the pudding.
> 
> With Nehalem, you need water cooling to get past 4.0 - 4.2.
> 
> Sandy Bridge does 4.5 - 5.0 on air with ease.


Through 90-45nm, the maximum clock speed ceilings haven't changed all that much... they hovered around the 4Ghz mark for a very long time.

You do not *need* water to get past 4.0-4.2 on Nehalem, although I agree 4.0-4.2 tends to be the average of these chips. And don't delude yourself into thinking 5Ghz stable is a walk in the park for Sandybridge. The averages tend to be 4.5-4.7Ghz unless you use dangerous levels of voltage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14819190*
> For anyone wondering why AMD is tight lipped, I suggest you read this post again.
> 
> Check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 9% is the best case scenario estimate of the "Enthusiast" Market for AMD's profits, since I don't have real data on the matter.
> 
> Think about things from AMD's perspective, if 9% of their customers want a release date, benchmarks and the such, and by releasing this information it's going to affect 91% of their profits, would you reveal such info?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> I'm not saying AMD doesn't care about us Enthusiasts, but we're certainly not their #1 priority since we account for 9% of their bottom line at BEST.
> 
> I still have un-answered questions on what products AMD has that cater to the Enthusiast market, because Phenom II certainly doesn't, and perhaps that's part of the problem.


I fully agree with this, though.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


i love that nothing you mentioned really shows us any real truth about intel's 22nm transistors ... all you mentioned is 32nm and 45nm stuff ... not 22nm intel technologie ...

once you show me real 22nm intel chip overclocking in the real world to back up those claims i will believe you ... otherwise its not facts


You didn't bother to check the link did you?

If you did, it's pretty obvious that Ivy Bridge will perform better than Sandy Bridge, and we also had leaked results to support this fact. Just like we had leaked benchmarks on Sandy Bridge that supported how great they overclock on air.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop replying to you, based on your history, you will argue as much as you can, and keep going in circles. Proof?

I still remember all your posts in this thread calling the guy fake, etc, etc, when all evidence pointed to him telling the truth.


----------



## Electroneng

JF-AMD,

Thanks for your time. I am very glad that Intel has this competition and will be having a lot of Fun with Bulldozer! I Plan on being the first to take one to 8.0Ghz!


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


He's supporting his arguments with unrealistic BS like a 500mhz CPU to downplay the importance of IPC and a single core CPU to downplay the importance of single threaded performance.

stupid.


No, he's saying that IPC is only one piece of the puzzle. It's clock speed *AND* IPC that determine single-threaded performance. With just one of those numbers, it's meaningless. For example, an Athlon 64 at 2.5GHz is faster than a Pentium 4 at 3.5GHz.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I don't know the client memory. I know we support 1600 on server.


OK JF thank you for responding


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No, he's saying that IPC is only one piece of the puzzle. It's clock speed *AND* IPC that determine single-threaded performance. With just one of those numbers, it's meaningless. For example, an Athlon 64 at 2.5GHz is faster than a Pentium 4 at 3.5GHz.


True, so why don't they tell us Bulldozer's IPC and this can all be over.









@JF-AMD - Any idea why AMD is not addressing the 60-90 day deadline miss, or if there's a new deadline on the horizon?

I'm not asking you for a new deadline, but if there's going to be some sort of announcement on the matter any time soon?

We're all tired of rumors and speculations, a word from AMD would be appreciated.

If you can't answer that, I understand either way.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Actually Benz, for those of us who aren't 'Internet White Knights' like yourself it really don't matter to us.

If AMD is a better company, it still doesn't make you a better person.

I wish AMD the best for my sake, not theirs, and as someone already said this thread has pretty much run it's course and turned into a speculation/debate/troll haven.


Just stating the obvious, I'm not saying anything more than that.









I too wish both companies luck and many years of competition.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

WoW guys check what I found over at thinkdigit.com regarding BD benefiting single and mulch-threaded due to its module design.

http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/cpu-...ml#post1487490

Quote:



So Now Core 1 is completely free and Core2 has 1 instruction left. So at the beginning of Cycle 3, T3 is fetched and I11, 12, I13, I14 of it will be assigned to Core1 and I15 will be assigned to Core2 as it has still 3 empty slots.
Now at the end of 3rd clock cycle T1, T2 and T3, all are completed.

So advantage over a Ht core is 4 cycles.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


You didn't bother to check the link did you?

If you did, it's pretty obvious that Ivy Bridge will perform better than Sandy Bridge, and we also had leaked results to support this fact. Just like we had leaked benchmarks on Sandy Bridge that supported how great they overclock on air.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop replying to you, based on your history, you will argue as much as you can, and keep going in circles. Proof?

I still remember all your posts in this thread calling the guy fake, etc, etc, when all evidence pointed to him telling the truth.



ok so from now on ill assume that the clock scaling of bulldozer is beyond epic ...

for the main reason that from 65nm to 45nm they achieved a great deal and on 32nm it can only get better

but id be called a delusional person for thinking that

double standard much???

and the guy in question never proved that he was sponsored by evga ....


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


WoW guys check what I found over at thinkdigit.com regarding BD benefiting single and mulch-threaded due to its module design.

http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/cpu-...ml#post1487490












JF, are you allowed to comment on this?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


ok so from now on ill assume that the clock scaling of bulldozer is beyond epic ...

for the main reason that from 65nm to 45nm they achieved a great deal and on 32nm it can only get better


By that logic, Bulldozer will overclock about as well as Sandy Bridge!


----------



## JF-AMD

That is where the whole IPC thing starts to collapse.

Think about this. If you have apps that have little or no dependencies, you end up with higher IPC because you can issue more instructions without having to wait.

But if your app is highly dependent, you end up with wait states as you have to wait for another instruction to execute. So, how does IPC help you in those cases?

As to this interpretation, I won't go into the specifics, but I will say that people are getting wrapped around th axle on the IPC issue without taking into consideration that there are dependent and independent instructions. Your IPC will vary based on how often you can dispatch an instruction without waiting.

The point that was not covered in the discussion of HT was the loading and unloading of cache lines between the 2 threads. That can cause latency. It gets really bad in highly optimized code, which is why linpack can show negative scaling for HT. Too much holding, cache line changing and swapping going on.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Another problem there is the i7 actually only has four FPU's, I don't know how HT was designed, but I don't think it was designed with linpacks in mind.

Maybe 2010rig could shoot me a PM with a run of LinX with HT on using four threads then again with eight, then again with HT off to see how poorly HT performs.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Another problem there is the i7 actually only has four FPU's, I don't know how HT was designed, but I don't think it was designed with linpacks in mind.

Maybe 2010rig could shoot me a PM with a run of LinX with HT on using four threads then again with eight, then again with HT off to see how poorly HT performs.


I have a bunch of screen shots already. Will PM you shortly.

Here's a link to the Album in case others are wondering:
http://imageshack.us/g/263/42hton.jpg/

The average is 60GFLOPS @ 4.2 with HT *OFF*
54 GFLOPS @ 4.2 with HT *ON*


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

This is the type of discussion I enjoy reading in this thread


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I have a bunch of screen shots already. Will PM you shortly.

Here's a link to the Album in case others are wondering:
http://imageshack.us/g/263/42hton.jpg/

The average is 60GFLOPS @ 4.2 with HT *OFF*
54 GFLOPS @ 4.2 with HT *ON*


Do you have one with the same settings with HT on in windows, but IBT set to 4 threads?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Do you have one with the same settings with HT on in windows, but IBT set to 4 threads?




Any other requests PM me.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


WoW guys check what I found over at thinkdigit.com regarding BD benefiting single and mulch-threaded due to its module design.

http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/cpu-...ml#post1487490


If what Cilus wrote is true regarding BD, then what I have believed to be the idea behind BD's design of 2 cores sharing a module will be true. Intel has HT to create a virtual core for each physical core, to share the workload between them. BD has 2 cores in a module and within the module those 2 cores can share the workload. So a module is AMD's response to INtel's Hyperthreading. Instead of a physical and a virtual core (Intel) sharing the workload it is 2 physical cores (AMD).

This puts a big smile on my face if true.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


If what Cilus wrote is true regarding BD, then what I have believed to be the idea behind BD's design of 2 cores sharing a module will be true. Intel has HT to create a virtual core for each physical core, to share the workload between them. BD has 2 cores in a module and within the module those 2 cores can share the workload. So a module is AMD's response to INtel's Hyperthreading. Instead of a physical and a virtual core (Intel) sharing the workload it is 2 physical cores (AMD).

This puts a big smile on my face if true.










That's... kinda the point of multi-core.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14822965*
> That's... kinda the point of multi-core.


True but for instance, a Quad Core Intel is seen as an Octocore by the OS but its really just 4 physical and 4 virtual cores. With an AMD Octocore, you get 8 physical cores, there is no virtualizaion, that's 8 full fledged cores. Seeing as how you have 2 Physical Cores in a Module that will share a work load between each other, IMO that is better then having a Physical core and a Virtual to share work load.

This is how I see it as an example;
Intel - You run windows 7 and have a Virtual Machine of XP. Win 7 is the physical real OS, and by itself it can utilize 100% of the hardware it is installed on, but when you start up the VM of XP. You then have 2 OS's running on the same hardware and because of this they both run slower then if they were installed separately on different machines, since Windows 7 has to use some of its resources to run the Virtual XP system.

BD - You have win 7 on one machine and XP on another but with identical hardware. So they both can take full advantage of being separate and perform better.

AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY SPECULATION OF BD MODULE DESIGN AND WHY I BELIEVE IT WILL PERFORM BETTER THEN INTEL'S HYPER-THREADING.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14822927*
> If what Cilus wrote is true regarding BD, then what I have believed to be the idea behind BD's design of 2 cores sharing a module will be true. Intel has HT to create a virtual core for each physical core, to share the workload between them. BD has 2 cores in a module and within the module those 2 cores can share the workload. So a module is AMD's response to INtel's Hyperthreading. Instead of a physical and a virtual core (Intel) sharing the workload it is 2 physical cores (AMD).
> 
> This puts a big smile on my face if true.


whats does this mean for games


----------



## Fr0sty

the thing about the module sharing its ressource + turbo core 2.0 could really help with poorly threaded apps ... say 2 or 4 core task could help share the instruction pipe at a penalty but turbo core would kick in to help out remove some of that performance hit taken from sharing the ressource

and that's the first thing ill gladly read once the nda is off right after seeing how it scales and perform in general tasks and such

but from all we know so far im sure i wont be disapointed with that release


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14823743*
> True but for instance, a Quad Core Intel is seen as an Octocore by the OS but its really just 4 physical and 4 virtual cores. With an AMD Octocore, you get 8 physical cores, there is no virtualizaion, that's 8 full fledged cores. Seeing as how you have 2 Physical Cores in a Module that will share a work load between each other, IMO that is better then having a Physical core and a Virtual to share work load.
> 
> This is how I see it as an example;
> Intel - You run windows 7 and have a Virtual Machine of XP. Win 7 is the physical real OS, and by itself it can utilize 100% of the hardware it is installed on, but when you start up the VM of XP. You then have 2 OS's running on the same hardware and because of this they both run slower then if they were installed separately on different machines, since Windows 7 has to use some of its resources to run the Virtual XP system.
> 
> BD - You have win 7 on one machine and XP on another but with identical hardware. So they both can take full advantage of being separate and perform better.
> 
> AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY SPECULATION OF BD MODULE DESIGN AND WHY I BELIEVE IT WILL PERFORM BETTER THEN INTEL'S HYPER-THREADING.


And that's the point of Bulldozer!

Not trying to be rude or a know-it-all or anything, just pointing that out. It's the reasoning behind the design.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14823884*
> whats does this mean for games


That depends. BF3? Godsent. StarCraft? Meh.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14818842*
> Based on Intel's history, it does.
> 
> Just looking at the latest...
> 
> From 45nm to 32nm higher overclocks are possible. Proof is in the pudding.
> 
> With Nehalem, you need water cooling to get past 4.0 - 4.2.
> 
> Sandy Bridge does 4.5 - 5.0 on air with ease.


90nm P4s got 4Ghz easy, a lot of 65nm C2Ds didn't.

Node =/= OCing potential, IMO it has more to do with the architecture and if you run into a voltage or cooling wall, but the addition of 3D transistors makes it a bit muddy, they may enable greater OCs, but IB will mostly be refining the SB architecture, with Haswell being the new architecture, like how the Athlon64 hit a wall at 3Ghz, but moving to 65nm or refining it (Phenom I) didn't really help it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14819227*
> There will be architecture changes with IB as well. How extensive hasn't been said, but it's not just a die shrink.


It's the usual die-shrink for Intel, mostly just a bit of optimization and making the chip work with the new technology in the new node.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14821195*
> Not necessarily. Close to 80% of the market falls into the "processor unaware" category. either they do not understand the differences or there is something other than processor that is driving the purchase (i.e. HD size, memory, screen, PC brand, etc.) It is a fallacy to think that winning a benchmark in a game will translate into other people that don't care about that game suddenly wanting to consider it.
> 
> For instance, if I told you that AMD wiped the floor with SB in Farmville by 50%, would that make you buy it? Probably not.


I think he was more referring to the people that build computers for family members, and may be fanboys of a certain brand/prefer to use whatever processor brand they have running at home, it wouldn't be that big of a number though.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14824005*
> And that's the point of Bulldozer!
> 
> Not trying to be rude or a know-it-all or anything, just pointing that out. It's the reasoning behind the design.


I didn't think you were being rude


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silas;14817432*
> We're all waiting for Ivy Bridge. Should be a pretty amazing chip. 5.5Ghz overclocks on air


Why do you now keep trolling the BD threads? Is it to show off you have a SB now?









Also, what is it with these chowderheads that keep posting SB and IB crap here when they have been told OVER AND OVER AND OVER that this thread is for BD only, not anything Intel!!!!! No wonder why this thread gets locked down every day or so, it's the stupid people acting like kids and don't listen to the mods AT ALL!

OT: Since Gigabyte released info on BD support for AM3+ mobos, have they released anything related to AM3 mobos bios update for supporting FX cpus?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14824103*
> 90nm P4s got 4Ghz easy, a lot of 65nm C2Ds didn't.
> 
> Node =/= OCing potential, IMO.


100% right









and you did provide a good example of it

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14824243*
> Why do you now keep trolling the BD threads? Is it to show off you have a SB now?


probably .. because i thinks it will offend us ... and by us i mean the people who are waiting to buy a bulldozer or whatever


----------



## Canis-X

Thank you JF for your responses today, they were very informative!


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14824103*
> It's the usual die-shrink for Intel, mostly just a bit of optimization and making the chip work with the new technology in the new node.


No, it's a bit more than that. Because of the introduction of 3D transistors, they're making a few extra changes over the usual.


----------



## Fr0sty

tri-gate alone will bring 15% ipc increase has proven by some intel internal testing on a known architecture ....

if they add something else on top of that it could get ugly real quick .. but then again we seeking performance always love it when it gets ugly ... anyway enough talking about intel in an amd thread


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14821345*
> @JF-AMD - Any idea why AMD is not addressing the 60-90 day deadline miss, or if there's a new deadline on the horizon?


The only reason I could think of is that they have paper launch tomorrow, with some availability info too. I guess they could survive 1 week "officialstatementless".

If nothing comes tomorrow, some new status update is really necessary.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14825873*
> No, it's a bit more than that. Because of the introduction of 3D transistors, they're making a few extra changes over the usual.


I pointed that out elsewhere in my post, but technically that also falls under the "making the chip work with the new technology in the new node" part of that quote too.


----------



## StarDestroyer

todays a holiday in the US and Canada, I don't BD will launch on holiday, besides BD is delayed always


----------



## xd_1771

^ I'm in school on September 6th. I might just miss everything, dangit








There's absolutely no confirmation of this date but there have at least been some hints that the paper launch date is going to be very, very soon.


----------



## Jared2608

Well, I just checked some online retairls(local ones), one has an 1155 Mobo on special, the other has the Asus Crosshair V at a good price. At least I know that no matter how BD does, I can buy a decent rig soon at a decent price!!


----------



## Evil Penguin

I'm still hopeful that AMD will launch this month.
There are a couple of reports that make me second guess that.


----------



## Seronx

I am back from "therapy" <-- Off Overclock

I want to go into IPC....but I am not going to divulge into INTEL DOES THIS IPC or AMD DOES THIS IPC

IPC is Instructions per Cycle

This is general misconceived as IPS

IPS is Instructions per Second

IPS is the measurement you want to look at for "single-thread" and "multi-thread" performance

IPC
---- x Clockrate = IPS
CPI

Now I added something called CPI...CPI is latency or the time to execute or put the instruction in the pipeline
Cycles per Instruction

Certain instructions have longer latencies

Instruction
---- x Clockrate = IPS
Latency

or

Program uses A,B,C,D,E Instructions

x Clock Rate = Performance
Latency and time A,B,C,D,E Instructions execute

and if said programmer or compiler ignores optimization guides for said CPUs then you can receive lack luster performance(or if said optimization guide is wrong then ya performance can be off)

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/manual/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.pdf

Appendix C. INSTRUCTION LATENCY AND THROUGHPUT

http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/47414.pdf

Appendix B. Instruction Latencies
---

P.S. Don't yell at me, if this was talked about before

P.S.S. In Multithreading the latency and time for multiple instruction drops so more cores and more threads always is a good way to increase IPS if IPC(is lacking)/CPI(is large)


----------



## Darkpriest667

I have been with AMD for 9 years solid. I've been building and operating PCs for 20 years. First with IBM chips then with Cyrix (shhh dont tell) then with Intel and now AMD.

I almost feel insulted by the Bulldozer FAQ post. We are not the people who gave out release dates Q2 2011 Q3 2011 60 to 90 days. I've been sitting on my hands for 5 months with thousands of dollars waiting to build a new rig. Why does AMD deserve my money anymore? Don't release a roadmap anymore AMD. Don't release any quarterly objectives. I'm 15 days away from going intel and I really really really hate that. As it is you that said 60 to 90 days not me. It was you that were to release June 1st (one of several delays we've seen.)

I believe that perhaps its time for a 3rd company to start producing chipsets and processors to spice up the competition some more. Intel charges too much and you guys seem to have your heads up your behinds. I realize that producing these microprocessors is a very very VERY tough and technical business. Businesses that fail to meet deadlines, that fail to adapt to the competition fail period. Businesses a lot older than 40 years have AMD so don't think just because you are 40 years in this business you can snub your noses at the consumer. Its us who pays you. You've got 15 days for this consumer and then I'm walking. Communication that is friendly and lighthearted will get you a lot farther than talking down to the consumers like we are children. I love AMD I've loved their hardware. However, I'm not about to be talked down to when its me thats funding your paychecks.

p.s. does anyone have any idea what the hell is going on at AMD? Is it possible the Japanese tsunami has some sort of effect on the production times?


----------



## 2010rig

Oh great NostraSeronx is back. This thread will never be the same again.









To be honest, the main concerns around here on the technical aspects.

Got any new predictions on BD release date?

Any insider news as to why AMD is not saying anything after they missed the 90 day deadline. Please enlighten us oh wise one.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Not necessarily. Close to 80% of the market falls into the "processor unaware" category. either they do not understand the differences or there is something other than processor that is driving the purchase (i.e. HD size, memory, screen, PC brand, etc.) It is a fallacy to think that winning a benchmark in a game will translate into other people that don't care about that game suddenly wanting to consider it.


Its almost like its backwards Intel worries about making the most hardcore chip possible no matter what where AMD worries about the "Unaware". I hope BD gives us 9% of enthusiasts something to drool over but I am a bit concerned at this point that they will not compete very well with intel since Enthusiasts are not AMDs focus


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14827416*
> To be honest, the main concerns around here on the technical aspects.


What type of technical aspects? I am to lazy to go through several bazillion pages

If it's about sharing....ignore it everything is dedicated

AMD Simulated Benchmarks are big do do in the realworld

And if you are worried about the supposed "sharing" divide the "clock" by two to get the "effective clock" that only makes things go in favor for AMD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-threading <-- read

http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/1487490-post612.html <-- read


----------



## StarDestroyer

I'd put my money on the sept 19th, but I'm CFing on the 16th

the only way I won't to that is if there are some leaked benches or definit dates leaked, because I won't have cash for SB rig yet, but another 6950 is about the same some BD


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14827632*
> What type of technical aspects? I am to lazy to go through several bazillion pages
> 
> If it's about sharing....ignore it everything is dedicated
> 
> AMD Simulated Benchmarks are big do do in the realworld
> 
> And if you are worried about the supposed "sharing" divide the "clock" by two to get the "effective clock" that only makes things go in favor for AMD
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-threading <-- read
> 
> http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/1487490-post612.html <-- read


You said AMD lied before editing the post. What did you mean by that? What can we expect from Bulldozer regarding the shared resources?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14824103*
> 90nm P4s got 4Ghz easy, a lot of 65nm C2Ds didn't.


It's not really the same thing, at least in the context that 2010rig was stating it.

He meant within the same release family, the shrink has in the past helped.

Your example is how how different architectures perform. We all know a C2D's single thread performance at 3GHz would wipe the floor with a P4 at 4Ghz.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14827785*
> What did you mean by that?


There is no actual performance loss when going from CMP to CMT
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;14827785*
> What can we expect from Bulldozer regarding the shared resources?


What you should expect is an 8-core and that is it


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14827808*
> It's not really the same thing, at least in the context that 2010rig was stating it.
> 
> He meant within the same release family, the shrink has in the past helped.
> 
> Your example is how how different architectures perform. We all know a C2D's single thread performance at 3GHz would wipe the floor with a P4 at 4Ghz.


Indeed, but my point was that node isn't everything, 65nm didn't help AMD much, iirc the 65nm Pentiums didn't get much further than the 90nm ones either (Unless you're talking LN2), it's as much to do with the architecture as it is the node, SB tends to hit a voltage wall, tri-gate may help that but I don't think so.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14827405*
> I have been with AMD for 9 years solid. I've been building and operating PCs for 20 years. First with IBM chips then with Cyrix (shhh dont tell) then with Intel and now AMD.
> 
> I almost feel insulted by the Bulldozer FAQ post. We are not the people who gave out release dates Q2 2011 Q3 2011 60 to 90 days. I've been sitting on my hands for 5 months with thousands of dollars waiting to build a new rig. Why does AMD deserve my money anymore? Don't release a roadmap anymore AMD. Don't release any quarterly objectives. I'm 15 days away from going intel and I really really really hate that. As it is you that said 60 to 90 days not me. It was you that were to release June 1st (one of several delays we've seen.)
> 
> I believe that perhaps its time for a 3rd company to start producing chipsets and processors to spice up the competition some more. Intel charges too much and you guys seem to have your heads up your behinds. I realize that producing these microprocessors is a very very VERY tough and technical business. Businesses that fail to meet deadlines, that fail to adapt to the competition fail period. Businesses a lot older than 40 years have AMD so don't think just because you are 40 years in this business you can snub your noses at the consumer. Its us who pays you. You've got 15 days for this consumer and then I'm walking. Communication that is friendly and lighthearted will get you a lot farther than talking down to the consumers like we are children. I love AMD I've loved their hardware. However, I'm not about to be talked down to when its me thats funding your paychecks.
> 
> p.s. does anyone have any idea what the hell is going on at AMD? Is it possible the Japanese tsunami has some sort of effect on the production times?


It's called "Running a company". AMD needs to make money, so they chose to get the Llnao APU out the door faster thus making allot of OEM sales for the year's end holiday sales. To be honest AMD can do what they please, because they have the information they need to be competitive. I mean, there are only a few hundred people here on OCN that might buy BD, but AMD has bigger fish to fry, aka OEM/bulk sales. Also, *IF* AMD paper launches tomorrow they will "launch" BD in Q3, as they have said, but also remember that the dates for business "quarters" are set by the company. I would like to know when AMD "Talked down" to it's customers? Why not email AMD with your "Threat" to goto Intel and see what they say to you. I think it might be positive.

About the Tsunami issues, I think it had an impact on certain components manufactured for electronics, but not directly for CPUs. The impact is continuing as well with the electricity rationing for everyone (running 50hz) because everyone has had to help by reducing power consumption by 10-20%, and it does get hot in Tokyo.


----------



## iMagi

There is a bulldozer overclocking competition going in progress, or has just happened.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?274786-CPU-Z-Validation-Changes-bogus-dumps-removed.&p=4941471&viewfull=1#post4941471


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14821195*
> First, you are probably reading too much into this.
> 
> Secondly, IPC is not a stock measurement, it has a lot to do with the software application that is running, compiler optimizations, etc. 2 systems could have different IPC just by the virtue of the application that is running. It is all about optimization.
> 
> So, when you ask "will IPC be higher" that is such a loaded question that I stay away from it. In addition, too many people are basing too many decisions on a simple IPC number. Would you rather have a 3GHz system with 1.6 IPC or a 1GHz system with 5.0 IPC? IPC is only one half of a metric, alone, by itself, it has little relevance.


thanks,i guess?
that answer was more cryptic than you FAQ's answer.either you have become IPC shy after your long battle at XS's with terrace215 or.........................


----------



## mark4d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14827405*
> I have been with AMD for 9 years solid. I've been building and operating PCs for 20 years. First with IBM chips then with Cyrix (shhh dont tell) then with Intel and now AMD.
> 
> I almost feel insulted by the Bulldozer FAQ post. We are not the people who gave out release dates Q2 2011 Q3 2011 60 to 90 days. I've been sitting on my hands for 5 months with thousands of dollars waiting to build a new rig. Why does AMD deserve my money anymore? Don't release a roadmap anymore AMD. Don't release any quarterly objectives. I'm 15 days away from going intel and I really really really hate that. As it is you that said 60 to 90 days not me. It was you that were to release June 1st (one of several delays we've seen.)
> 
> I believe that perhaps its time for a 3rd company to start producing chipsets and processors to spice up the competition some more. Intel charges too much and you guys seem to have your heads up your behinds. I realize that producing these microprocessors is a very very VERY tough and technical business. Businesses that fail to meet deadlines, that fail to adapt to the competition fail period. Businesses a lot older than 40 years have AMD so don't think just because you are 40 years in this business you can snub your noses at the consumer. Its us who pays you. You've got 15 days for this consumer and then I'm walking. Communication that is friendly and lighthearted will get you a lot farther than talking down to the consumers like we are children. I love AMD I've loved their hardware. However, I'm not about to be talked down to when its me thats funding your paychecks.


i thought the same thing it like they dont even care about the customer ME i told my son that i wont wait for AMD to do thiis to me agian "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" i feel so stupid ......

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14827405*
> p.s. does anyone have any idea what the hell is going on at AMD? Is it possible the Japanese tsunami has some sort of effect on the production times?


i never thought about that


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iMagi;14828527*
> There is a bulldozer overclocking competition going in progress, or has just happened.
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?274786-CPU-Z-Validation-Changes-bogus-dumps-removed.&p=4941471&viewfull=1#post4941471


I wonder if this is what RawZ was referring to over on aria forums in this thread -

http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1372077#post1372077
Quote:
The things i can tell you.

1. Bulldozer is here mid-Sept
2. Bulldozer will be very price competitive vs Sandy Bridge
3. Bulldozer is awesome - ha lol.
4. Every part is unlocked
5. It can OC very well!
*6. AMD will be doing something special with LN2 very soon - 1-2 weeks.*


----------



## Schmuckley

you have more patience than me..lol..i caved after june 6th..but umm..us people that buy the cpus only make up a small percentage of their sales.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14827895*
> It's called "Running a company". AMD needs to make money, so they chose to get the Llnao APU out the door faster thus making allot of OEM sales for the year's end holiday sales. To be honest AMD can do what they please, because they have the information they need to be competitive. I mean, there are only a few hundred people here on OCN that might buy BD, but AMD has bigger fish to fry, aka OEM/bulk sales. Also, *IF* AMD paper launches tomorrow they will "launch" BD in Q3, as they have said, but also remember that the dates for business "quarters" are set by the company. I would like to know when AMD "Talked down" to it's customers? Why not email AMD with your "Threat" to goto Intel and see what they say to you. I think it might be positive.
> 
> About the Tsunami issues, I think it had an impact on certain components manufactured for electronics, but not directly for CPUs. The impact is continuing as well with the electricity rationing for everyone (running 50hz) because everyone has had to help by reducing power consumption by 10-20%, and it does get hot in Tokyo.


The guy says they're running a business and to give release dates would stall sales. Last I checked they've given 3 release dates and went back on all 3. So is it really stalling sales? Its a blatant lie and I don't like a company lying to me. It may stall sales but to say "we're not going to give a release date because it will stall sales" after they've done given 3 different ones smells like something coming out of the back end of a cow. I'll wait for benchmarks MAYBE and if its not super impressive they've lost me.

Thanks for the tsunami update. I appreciate that info.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;14829821*
> you have more patience than me..lol..i caved after june 6th..but umm..us people that buy the cpus only make up a small percentage of their sales.


Every person I know buys CPUs and builds their own rigs. Its a rising percentage of consumers and they're on something I'd like them to share with me if they think its a good business strategy to screw the people in that market around. I mean do they know how many people buy from sites like newegg? Every person I know buys their PC hardware from them not from a box store. Let's be honest we aren't going to see OEM APU's at walmart anytime soon.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


I wonder if this is what RawZ was referring to over on aria forums in this thread -

http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread....77#post1372077
Quote:
The things i can tell you.

1. Bulldozer is here mid-Sept
2. Bulldozer will be very price competitive vs Sandy Bridge
3. Bulldozer is awesome - ha lol.
4. Every part is unlocked
5. It can OC very well!
*6. AMD will be doing something special with LN2 very soon - 1-2 weeks.*











Not going to get excited......not going to get.....not.....Oh what the hell...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


The guy says they're running a business and to give release dates would stall sales. Last I checked they've given 3 release dates and went back on all 3. So is it really stalling sales? Its a blatant lie and I don't like a company lying to me. It may stall sales but to say "we're not going to give a release date because it will stall sales" after they've done given 3 different ones smells like something coming out of the back end of a cow. I'll wait for benchmarks MAYBE and if its not super impressive they've lost me.

Thanks for the tsunami update. I appreciate that info.

Every person I know buys CPUs and builds their own rigs. Its a rising percentage of consumers and they're on something I'd like them to share with me if they think its a good business strategy to screw the people in that market around. I mean do they know how many people buy from sites like newegg? Every person I know buys their PC hardware from them not from a box store. Let's be honest we aren't going to see OEM APU's at walmart anytime soon.


What were the release date(s) they said?
Also I have been seeing laptops with Llanos in them already.
Oh and Walmart already has desktops with the APU in them.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/ZT-Systems-7140Ma/16929121
http://www.walmart.com/ip/ZT-Systems-7134Ma/16929123


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


What were the release date(s) they said?
Also I have been seeing laptops with Llanos in them already.
Oh and Walmart already has desktops with the APU in them.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/ZT-Systems-7140Ma/16929121
http://www.walmart.com/ip/ZT-Systems-7134Ma/16929123



Both of those have to be shipped I said IN walmart. As in ON THE SALES FLOOR.

And Im an AMD customer. A pretty hardcore one. I have the right to be here thankyou very much.

Release dates given by AMD

Server Q1 2011 - delayed
Desktop Q2 2011 - delayed
June 5th "big announcement" - turned out to be a delay announcement in which THEY said 60 to 90 days.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Both of those have to be shipped I said IN walmart. As in ON THE SALES FLOOR.

And Im an AMD customer. A pretty hardcore one. I have the right to be here thankyou very much.

Release dates given by AMD

Server Q1 2011 - delayed
Desktop Q2 2011 - delayed
June 5th "big announcement" - turned out to be a delay announcement in which THEY said 60 to 90 days.


What is your problem dude? You said "Let's be honest we aren't going to see OEM APU's at walmart anytime soon.", so you order your computer online and have it delivered to your local store or even have it shipped to you, that is still buying it from Walmart anyway you look at it. Also I never said that you were not welcome here so stop putting words in my mouth. I'm an AMD buyer as well, and I sure as hell can wait for BD without all the drama that most have been throwing around here.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I am back from "therapy" <-- Off Overclock

I want to go into IPC....but I am not going to divulge into INTEL DOES THIS IPC or AMD DOES THIS IPC

IPC is Instructions per Cycle

This is general misconceived as IPS

IPS is Instructions per Second

IPS is the measurement you want to look at for "single-thread" and "multi-thread" performance

IPC
---- x Clockrate = IPS
CPI

Now I added something called CPI...CPI is latency or the time to execute or put the instruction in the pipeline
Cycles per Instruction

Certain instructions have longer latencies

Instruction
---- x Clockrate = IPS
Latency

or

Program uses A,B,C,D,E Instructions
------------------------------------------ x Clock Rate = Performance
Latency and time A,B,C,D,E Instructions execute

and if said programmer or compiler ignores optimization guides for said CPUs then you can receive lack luster performance(or if said optimization guide is wrong then ya performance can be off)

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc...ion-manual.pdf

Appendix C. INSTRUCTION LATENCY AND THROUGHPUT

http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/47414.pdf

Appendix B. Instruction Latencies
---

P.S. Don't yell at me, if this was talked about before

P.S.S. In Multithreading the latency and time for multiple instruction drops so more cores and more threads always is a good way to increase IPS if IPC(is lacking)/CPI(is large)


Welcome back!

... TBH, you're making a lot of sense this time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nub*


I wonder if this is what RawZ was referring to over on aria forums in this thread -

http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread....77#post1372077
Quote:
The things i can tell you.

1. Bulldozer is here mid-Sept
2. Bulldozer will be very price competitive vs Sandy Bridge
3. Bulldozer is awesome - ha lol.
4. Every part is unlocked
5. It can OC very well!
*6. AMD will be doing something special with LN2 very soon - 1-2 weeks.*





















Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


The guy says they're running a business and to give release dates would stall sales. Last I checked they've given 3 release dates and went back on all 3. So is it really stalling sales? Its a blatant lie and I don't like a company lying to me. It may stall sales but to say "we're not going to give a release date because it will stall sales" after they've done given 3 different ones smells like something coming out of the back end of a cow. I'll wait for benchmarks MAYBE and if its not super impressive they've lost me.


They gave no release dates in the past.

Giving a release date WOULD stall sales.

Quote:



Every person I know buys CPUs and builds their own rigs. Its a rising percentage of consumers and they're on something I'd like them to share with me if they think its a good business strategy to screw the people in that market around. I mean do they know how many people buy from sites like newegg? Every person I know buys their PC hardware from them not from a box store. Let's be honest we aren't going to see OEM APU's at walmart anytime soon.


I guess you don't know a lot of people...?


----------



## BigCactus

September 26.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


September 26.










No.


----------



## BigCactus

What about the price for performance aspect. You think AMD will have a mid-performance cpu that will match the 2500k and be cheaper? That's what I'd like to know.


----------



## Fr0sty

if there is a current bulldozer oc contest chances are that the nda will lift on the 7th at midnight


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


What about the price for performance aspect. You think AMD will have a mid-performance cpu that will match the 2500k and be cheaper? That's what I'd like to know.


The FX-4110 will cost $190.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No.










September 26 will be the retail launch of AMD bulldozer!


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


September 26 will be the retail launch of AMD bulldozer!










Says who, besides some idiot on PCMag who doesn't even know anything about the architecture but pretends he does?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14830363*
> September 26 will be the retail launch of AMD bulldozer!


I hope not, I was hoping it would be around the 19th. I had requested off work the last week of this month (vacation) and was hoping to get a new system built when I got back.


----------



## massman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Not necessarily. Close to 80% of the market falls into the "processor unaware" category. either they do not understand the differences or there is something other than processor that is driving the purchase (i.e. HD size, memory, screen, PC brand, etc.) It is a fallacy to think that winning a benchmark in a game will translate into other people that don't care about that game suddenly wanting to consider it.

For instance, if I told you that AMD wiped the floor with SB in Farmville by 50%, would that make you buy it? Probably not.


I'm confused.

Eight out of ten may be 'processor unaware', but that does not necessarily mean they are 'enthusiast unaffected', right?. I can't believe 8/10 would ignore the processor specifications and do their purchase without trying to obtain more information. Information you can obtain from the internet, from friends who do know or from sales people in the shop.

Given I have no knowledge on the subject, if I were to consider purchasing a new bike, I'd either go in the internet to find information on bikes or call a friend who I trust to have enough knowledge on bikes so he could provide me with enough background information to make a conscious decision.

The question how much influence enthusiasts really have remains unanswered, though. I suppose it's safe to assume that the amount of influence is affected by parameters such as 'size of hype', 'lead over competition' and, who knows, maybe even 'timeframe'.

//edit: owh, first post!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Welcome to OCN


----------



## Fr0sty

@massman: how many chips amd sells a year and out of that how many are cheap acer desktops sold at best buy vs the ones sold from newegg and the likes ???

it will show just how much our market is small compared to the overall amd total sales per year


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14830679*
> @massman: how many chips amd sells a year and out of that how many are cheap acer desktops sold at best buy vs the ones sold from newegg and the likes ???
> 
> it will show just how much our market is small compared to the overall amd total sales per year


And most of those machines are going to be using Llano anyway.

Assuming Intel doesn't bribe OEMs again


----------



## massman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


@massman: how many chips amd sells a year and out of that how many are cheap acer desktops sold at best buy vs the ones sold from newegg and the likes ???

it will show just how much our market is small compared to the overall amd total sales per year


Oh yes, no question about the insignifance of enthusiast's direct influence on sales figures. What I'm wondering about is how many of those "cheap Acer desktop"-sales are affected by the enthusiast community.

As I said in the previous post, I don't think many of the tech-impaired will make a PC purchase without checking with friends or sales people on the quality of the PC. That's where the influence of enthusiasts is present too: those who have no clue about technology ask those (they think) do have know-how if it's a good product (and if not, which is better).

I'm not sure on how to measure this influence, though. Comparing sales figures when AMD had the fastest desktop product against the figures when Intel had the fastest product? There might be a bias of the mainstream line-up, I guess (eg: AMD had fastest highend, but not best (price/perf) mainstream).


----------



## stangcharger

Quote:



Originally Posted by *massman*


Oh yes, no question about the insignifance of enthusiast's direct influence on sales figures. What I'm wondering about is how many of those "cheap Acer desktop"-sales are affected by the enthusiast community.

As I said in the previous post, I don't think many of the tech-impaired will make a PC purchase without checking with friends or sales people on the quality of the PC. That's where the influence of enthusiasts is present too: those who have no clue about technology ask those (they think) do have know-how if it's a good product (and if not, which is better).

I'm not sure on how to measure this influence, though. Comparing sales figures when AMD had the fastest desktop product against the figures when Intel had the fastest product? There might be a bias of the mainstream line-up, I guess (eg: AMD had fastest highend, but not best (price/perf) mainstream).


I get asked a lot at work from many people about a laptop or computer to buy. But, Mainly it is the overall brand of the laptop Asus, Acer, HP, etc... The processor never gets brought up unless I am doing a custom desktop gaming build. And even then it is mainly the graphics card and case that mostly get talked about. They are not as worried about the CPU until they can not run a game, then it is a concern.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *massman*


I'm confused.

Eight out of ten may be 'processor unaware', but that does not necessarily mean they are 'enthusiast unaffected', right?. I can't believe 8/10 would ignore the processor specifications and do their purchase without trying to obtain more information. Information you can obtain from the internet, from friends who do know or from sales people in the shop.

Given I have no knowledge on the subject, if I were to consider purchasing a new bike, I'd either go in the internet to find information on bikes or call a friend who I trust to have enough knowledge on bikes so he could provide me with enough background information to make a conscious decision.

The question how much influence enthusiasts really have remains unanswered, though. I suppose it's safe to assume that the amount of influence is affected by parameters such as 'size of hype', 'lead over competition' and, who knows, maybe even 'timeframe'.

//edit: owh, first post!


There goes the neighborhood









I do agree, every time a friend wants to make a big tech purchase they will always give me a shout and ask what's up. Plenty of people sign up to this forum for purchasing advice etc.

Would need a big survey to prove how big the impact really is but I guess you could check for spikes in sales (or hwbot submissions on your end) around the time of big community events such as blackops and the dragon 7ghz videos etc. See if there's a "shamino effect" from seeing the extreme enthusiasts in action


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *massman*


Oh yes, no question about the insignifance of enthusiast's direct influence on sales figures. What I'm wondering about is how many of those "cheap Acer desktop"-sales are affected by the enthusiast community. 
.



how big are most overclocking forums when it comes to membership?

50k top??

and out of those how many are frequent posters staying informed??

5k? or so ???

and out of those ... how many of them will have an influence on oem sales or even convert people into enthusiast and so on???

the numbers in the end arent as big as people think compared to the numbers of computers sold per year ... intel and amd combined ....


----------



## Kmon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No, he's saying that IPC is only one piece of the puzzle. It's clock speed *AND* IPC that determine single-threaded performance. With just one of those numbers, it's meaningless. For example, an Athlon 64 at 2.5GHz is faster than a Pentium 4 at 3.5GHz.


I would modify that to include all of the following: IPC, Clock speed, instruction mix and compiler optimization.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kmon*


I would modify that to include all of the following: IPC, Clock speed, instruction mix and compiler optimization.

















IPC, IPS, CPI(Stage Pipeline and Latencies)

There are some instructions that are faster and some instructions that are slower

IPC isn't always fixed in programs

Sandy Bridge proves this that programs prefer IPS over IPC

Sandy Bridge is a low IPC design but a high IPS design
(Lower instruction latencies and more optimized in compilers)

Phenom II/Llano is a high IPC design but a high IPS design in multithread

Bulldozer is a medium IPC design but an average IPS design

IPC
----- x Clockrate = Performance in Programs
CPI

Numbers are close

In programs that don't go for IPC

Sandy Bridge:

1 IPC
----- x 4,500,000,000Hz => 1,500,000,000 Instructions per second
3 CPI

Phenom II

1 IPC
----- x 4,200,000,000Hz => 1,200,000,000 Instructions per second
4 CPI

In programs that go for IPC

Sandy Bridge:

2 IPC
----- x 4,500,000,000Hz => 3,000,000,000 Instructions per second
3 CPI

Phenom II

3 IPC
----- x 4,200,000,000Hz => 3,150,000,000 Instructions per second
4 CPI

Now, I might include Hyper-threading doesn't increase IPC or IPS on a thread level but the main purpose of Hyper-threading is if two instructions require 2 different things they can be executed at the same time(on separate threads)

AMD CPUs have longer latencies and bigger IPC => Strong but Slower Cores
Intel CPUs have shorter latencies and smaller IPC => Weaker but Faster Cores

AMD "Bulldozer" has shorter latencies and smaller IPC when compared to previous "paper" specs from previous architectures, latencies shrunk but IPC went up in certain areas when compared to the actual specs of CPUs => Slightly Strong but Slightly Fast Cores

But the main focus for AMD CPUs is Massive Workloads like having 128 Virtual Boxes running at the same time and more

While Intel CPUs focus is Smaller Workloads in faster time

Simplicity <-------------Intel & AMD--------------> Complexity

Two different market types

And to include CPUs to the chart

Nehalem <----- Sandy Bridge ----- Intel & AMD ----- Bulldozer ------> K10

but in all new CPUs IPS goes up

Nehalem -> Sandy Bridge IPS went up

K10 -> Bulldozer IPS will definitely go up!

IPC isn't important if you have low IPS

My point is when people bring up intel and games you are talking about IPS not IPC


----------



## massman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


how big are most overclocking forums when it comes to membership?

50k top??

and out of those how many are frequent posters staying informed??

5k? or so ???

and out of those ... how many of them will have an influence on oem sales or even convert people into enthusiast and so on???

the numbers in the end arent as big as people think compared to the numbers of computers sold per year ... intel and amd combined ....


Well, okay. A lot of interesting parameters, but you're just making a whole bunch of assumptions without real data. Is it 50k, is it more or is it less? Is it 5k, is it more or is it less? And so on, or is that all and if there's more, how much more?

Also, how much influence is passed on through forums and how much is passed on through face-to-face (or IM) interaction? Maybe forums don't matter, but enthusiasts talking does. Or the other way around.

Enthusiasts -?> gamers/mainstream -?> regular folks.

I don't think it's possible to directly measure the influence of enthusiasts. I have more trust in comparing sales figures with enthusiasts adopting certain platforms. Also, maybe AMD doesn't care about enthusiasts directly, but since their partners (mainboard vendors, for instance) do, they have to care too. Then again, AMD does care about the enthusiasts.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *massman*


Well, okay. A lot of interesting parameters, but you're just making a whole bunch of assumptions without real data. Is it 50k, is it more or is it less? Is it 5k, is it more or is it less? And so on, or is that all and if there's more, how much more?

Also, how much influence is passed on through forums and how much is passed on through face-to-face (or IM) interaction? Maybe forums don't matter, but enthusiasts talking does. Or the other way around.

Enthusiasts -?> gamers/mainstream -?> regular folks.

I don't think it's possible to directly measure the influence of enthusiasts. I have more trust in comparing sales figures with enthusiasts adopting certain platforms. Also, maybe AMD doesn't care about enthusiasts directly, but since their partners (mainboard vendors, for instance) do, they have to care too. Then again, AMD does care about the enthusiasts.











i throwed numbers out there that seemed closer to the truth .. but we wont know how those numbers are until we go for a more precise and detailed analysis wich isnt the point ...

the point is we do have some influence .. but is it that big so the big company will notice???

not sure ...

but a big survey would help out .. but is it too much trouble for nothing?


----------



## StarDestroyer

well the 19th is 2 mondays from now

and I hope the sell some bare BD or SB chips, I have a silver arrow, but if I get a stock cooler, I'll just use the fan to cool something else


----------



## catharsis

sigh I really hope we hear some news tomorrow.

I've pretty much given up. Once september ends, I'm just gonna pull the trigger and get an i5 sandy. It's too hard to wait by with all this cash in hand for a PC and all you can go by is rumors.


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


There goes the neighborhood









I do agree, every time a friend wants to make a big tech purchase they will always give me a shout and ask what's up. Plenty of people sign up to this forum for purchasing advice etc.

Would need a big survey to prove how big the impact really is but I guess you could check for spikes in sales (or hwbot submissions on your end) around the time of big community events such as blackops and the dragon 7ghz videos etc. See if there's a "shamino effect" from seeing the extreme enthusiasts in action










Ah,

I thought "Massman" sounded familiar- (The voice of HWBOT). Welcome to OCN!


----------



## liberato87

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq5OS9T9Kw&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Schmuckley

well..we know what ya look like now,john


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


well..we know what ya look like now,john










That's not JF


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


well..we know what ya look like now,john











not the same john at all


----------



## Benz

That's not John Freuhe

This is John Freuhe

  
 You Tube


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


That's not JF










Beat me to it lol.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq5O...layer_embedded


I was starting to worry that bulldozer was just a fairy tale. Atleast now I can go to sleep at night knowing I didnt waste mone on an AM3+ board for a fairy tale CPU.

All joking aside I cant wait for BD. I am not the type of person who really likes to wait. Waiting makes me very impatient and really frustrated. I hope its this month. Crossing fingers


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Benz I like the new avatar


----------



## Fr0sty

:O

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQci1cGsqN8&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## StarDestroyer

who's she, and need more girls like her


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14833705*
> Benz I like the new avatar


Thanks, I like it too.









Today is the first time I saw this logo when I launched DeusEx Human Revolution.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14833895*
> who's she, and need more girls like her


stumbled upon her youtube page ... ask her out if you feel like it


----------



## cayennemist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14830714*
> And most of those machines are going to be using Llano anyway.
> 
> Assuming Intel doesn't bribe OEMs again


My wife just picked up a A8 Dv6...








Its a nice machine for only 624$.

Not sure of HP's future, but Toshiba and gateway also are selling Llanos.
I have my fingers crossed hoping that Trinity will be geared toward OEM's.

Makes sense, no discrete GPU means cheaper OEM builds.

That Girl in that video, She needs to come hang with us here on OCN. We will teach her a thing or 2. Good to se that demographic getting interested. She OC'ed her Dual Athlon 64... good girl.
My wife stops at RAM, anything more and she falls asleep.


----------



## Tweeky

When will the NDA be lifted?
When will BD be released?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14834111*
> When will the NDA be lifted?
> When will BD be released?


We don't know.
We don't know.

[speculation]
Until retailers start spilling the beans, we won't have a good idea.
Reviewers as far as I know haven't gotten their review samples.
So if they still don't have them by next week.
Don't expect a launch on the 19th.
[/speculation]


----------



## Tweeky

AMD's first wave of FX series high performance desktop processors will hit stores on 19 September, 2011, according to industry sources.

http://www.techpowerup.com/149632/19-September-Launch-Day-for-FX-Series-Processors.html/


----------



## Fr0sty

28hours before something big happens


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14834277*
> AMD's first wave of FX series high performance desktop processors will hit stores on 19 September, 2011, according to industry sources.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/149632/19-September-Launch-Day-for-FX-Series-Processors.html/


They also said BD would be available 60 to 90 days from June 1st.
What happened there?
The people who win 1 of 5 8 core BD CPUs are expected to wait 8 to 10 weeks minimum to get their prize. That's in no way reassuring.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14834315*
> 28hours before something big happens


Don't get your hopes up.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14834347*
> They also said BD would be available 60 to 90 days from June 1st.
> What happened there?
> The people who win 1 of 5 8 core BD CPUs are expected to wait 8 to 10 weeks minimum to get their prize. That's in no way reassuring.
> 
> Don't get your hopes up.


Stop being such a damn pessimist!


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14834315*
> 28hours before something big happens


I have been waiting for something big to pop up for weeks


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14832980*
> sigh I really hope we hear some news tomorrow.
> 
> I've pretty much given up. Once september ends, I'm just gonna pull the trigger and get an i5 sandy. It's too hard to wait by with all this cash in hand for a PC and all you can go by is rumors.


Yes this is where I am at. Tired and frustrated. What's really frightening me is what if the BD chips are barely competitive with the sandy bridge line. Forget Sandy-E.... That would be a massive failure on AMD's part I think.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14834347*
> 
> Don't get your hopes up.


we will both see


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14834409*
> Yes this is where I am at. Tired and frustrated. What's really frightening me is what if the BD chips are barely competitive with the sandy bridge line. Forget Sandy-E.... That would be a massive failure on AMD's part I think.


The inner amd fanboy in me would still grab a bd if its competitive to sandy, sandy-e is still far away.

Here's what I'm hoping. We were told server chips would launch before client. So hopefully tomorrow the NDA lifts and server chips are announced, then september 16th client chips are released







? I don't wanna get myself too hyped up though.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cayennemist;14833947*
> My wife just picked up a A8 Dv6...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a nice machine for only 624$.
> 
> Not sure of HP's future, but Toshiba and gateway also are selling Llanos.
> I have my fingers crossed hoping that Trinity will be geared toward OEM's.
> 
> Makes sense, no discrete GPU means cheaper OEM builds.
> 
> That Girl in that video, She needs to come hang with us here on OCN. We will teach her a thing or 2. Good to se that demographic getting interested. She OC'ed her Dual Athlon 64... good girl.
> My wife stops at RAM, anything more and she falls asleep.


I agree. I need more female friends to hang out with here!







Gets lonely amongst a sea of guys sometimes. I don't know any other girls irl that have an interest in computers


----------



## Evil Penguin

I don't know girls in real life.


----------



## pioneerisloud

You guys need to stay on topic. I shouldn't have to remove every other post.

If we have to lock it down again, it will be permanent.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14834621*
> You guys need to stay on topic. I shouldn't have to remove every other post.
> 
> If we have to lock it down again, it will be permanent.


It may be best to lock it until we get more concrete information.
Right now people are venting due to the "lack" of information.

I don't blame them.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14834635*
> It may be best to lock it until we get more concrete information.
> Right now people are venting due to the "lack" of information.
> 
> I don't blame them.


Doing that would be banning Bulldozer discussion outside of the troll-infested news threads, unless they lift the ban on new BD-related threads, which would result in a million different threads for one topic (kind of like how we see tons of "how do I overclock xyz CPU?" except less personalized and therefore much, much, MUCH more pointless).

I'll watch what I post here more carefully from now on... I'd hate to see this thread locked permanently.


----------



## Kmon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14832622*
> IPC, IPS, CPI(Stage Pipeline and Latencies)
> 
> There are some instructions that are faster and some instructions that are slower
> 
> IPC isn't always fixed in programs
> 
> Sandy Bridge proves this when compared to the more powerful Phenom II in programs that don't go for IPC but IPS
> 
> Sandy Bridge is a low IPC design but a high IPS design
> (Lower instruction latencies and more optimized in compilers)
> 
> Phenom II/Llano is a high IPC design but a high IPS design in multithread
> 
> Bulldozer is a medium IPC design but an average IPS design
> 
> IPC
> 
> x Clockrate = Performance in Programs
> CPI
> 
> Numbers are close
> 
> In programs that don't go for IPC
> 
> Sandy Bridge:
> 
> 1 IPC
> 
> x 4,500,000,000Hz => 1,500,000,000 Instructions per second
> 3 CPI
> 
> Phenom II
> 
> 1 IPC
> 
> x 4,200,000,000Hz => 1,200,000,000 Instructions per second
> 4 CPI
> 
> In programs that go for IPC
> 
> Sandy Bridge:
> 
> 2 IPC
> 
> x 4,500,000,000Hz => 3,000,000,000 Instructions per second
> 3 CPI
> 
> Phenom II
> 
> 3 IPC
> 
> x 4,200,000,000Hz => 3,150,000,000 Instructions per second
> 4 CPI
> 
> Now, I might include Hyper-threading doesn't increase IPC or IPS on a thread level but the main purpose of Hyper-threading is if two instructions require 2 different things they can be executed at the same time(on separate threads)
> 
> AMD CPUs have longer latencies and bigger IPC => Strong but Slower Cores
> Intel CPUs have shorter latencies and smaller IPC => Weaker but Faster Cores
> 
> AMD "Bulldozer" has shorter latencies and smaller IPC when compared to previous "paper" specs from previous architectures, latencies shrunk but IPC went up in certain areas when compared to the actual specs of CPUs => Slightly Strong but Slightly Fast Cores
> 
> But the main focus for AMD CPUs is Massive Workloads like having 128 Virtual Boxes running at the same time and more
> 
> While Intel CPUs focus is Smaller Workloads in faster time
> 
> Simplicity <
> 
> Intel & AMD
> 
> > Complexity
> 
> Two different market types
> 
> And to include CPUs to the chart
> 
> Nehalem <
> 
> Sandy Bridge
> 
> Intel & AMD
> 
> Bulldozer
> 
> > K10
> 
> but in all new CPUs IPS goes up
> 
> Nehalem -> Sandy Bridge IPS went up
> 
> K10 -> Bulldozer IPS will definitely go up!
> 
> IPC isn't important if you have low IPS
> 
> My point is when people bring up intel and games you are talking about IPS not IPC


Serona;

thanks but I am aware that IPC can be variable. For example a simple load instruction can be of various cycles depending upon stalls, contention and the next instructions:

•STR Rx,[Ry,#imm] is always one cycle. This is because the address generation is performed in the initial cycle, and the data store is performed at the same time as the next instruction is executing. If the store is to the store buffer, and the store buffer is full, the next instruction is delayed until the store can complete. If the store is not to the store buffer, such as to the Code segment, and that transaction stalls, the impact on timing is only felt if another load or store operation is executed before completion.

•LDR Rx!,[any] is not normally pipelined. That is, base update load is generally at least a two-cycle operation (more if stalled). However, if the next instruction does not require to read from a register, the load is reduced to one cycle. Non register writing instructions include CMP, TST, NOP, and non-taken IT controlled instructions.

•LDR PC,[any] is always a blocking operation. This means minimally two cycles for the load, and three cycles for the pipeline reload. So at least five cycles (more if stalled on the load or the fetch).

•LDR Rx,[PC,#imm] might add a cycle because of contention with the fetch unit.

•TBB and TBH are also blocking operations. These are minimally two cycles for the load, one cycle for the add, and three cycles for the pipeline reload. This means at least six cycles (more if stalled on the load or the fetch).

•LDR any are pipelined when possible. This means that if the next instruction is an LDR or non-base updating STR, and the destination of the first LDR is not used to compute the address for the next instruction, then one cycle is removed from the cost of the next instruction. So, an LDR might be followed by an STR, so that the STR writes out what the LDR loaded. More multiple LDRs can be pipelined together. Some optimized examples:

◦LDR R0,[R1]; LDR R1,[R2] - normally three cycles total

◦LDR R0,[R1,R2]; STR R0,[R3,#20] - normally three cycles total

◦LDR R0,[R1,R2]; STR R1,[R3,R2] - normally three cycles total

◦LDR R0,[R1,R5]; LDR R1,[R2]; LDR R2,[R3,#4] - normally four cycles total.

Depending upon how the compiler optimizes it could decrease or increase IPC for the above reasons. All I was trying to explain is that IPC is not a critical element as many factors come in to play.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

I just hope Bulldozer drops before BF3.. I wanna have the time to mess with it & overclock.

If it drops after... I'm going to be to busy playing BF3 to do anything other than sleep, bio, & eat..


----------



## Obakemono

The BD opty's are releasing all the new processors, correct? (I mean the entire BD lineup for servers)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14834277*
> AMD's first wave of FX series high performance desktop processors will hit stores on 19 September, 2011, according to industry sources.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/149632/19-September-Launch-Day-for-FX-Series-Processors.html/


I swear I've seen those charts in soooo many places before, like the such as:
http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/

The September 19 launch was predicted on July 26
http://hwbot.org/newsflash/1371_19_september_launch_day_for_fx_series_processors_


----------



## kabj06

Does anybody know if BD will be AM3 compatible? I really don't want to get a new motherboard.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kabj06;14834998*
> Does anybody know if BD will be AM3 compatible? I really don't want to get a new motherboard.


JF-AMD has said that AMD will not "support" Bulldozer in AM3 motherboards.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14835004*
> JF-AMD has said that AMD will not "support" Bulldozer in AM3 motherboards.


wait, wait, wait. When did he say this? I was not aware..
as far as I remember it will be supported on the CH IV and some other 890FX boards.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835037*
> wait, wait, wait. When did he say this? I was not aware..
> as far as I remember it will be supported on the CH IV and some other 890FX boards.


He has said it many times on many boards.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=103055&postcount=23
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> AMD will not support Bulldozer in AM3 sockets. AMD will only support bulldozer in AM3+ sockets.
> 
> This has been consistent since late last year when we first said it and it will be consistent in the future when the next set of rumors comes out (as they always do.)


----------



## WizrdSleevz

This whole time I thought it was gonna be compatible with the CH IV Formula.. well thats what Asus said..

Now I need to sell this & buy a CH V or Sabertooth..

Thanks +rep.. even tho i'm still dissapointed.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835104*
> This whole time I thought it was gonna be compatible with the CH IV Formula.. well thats what Asus said..
> 
> Now I need to sell this & buy a CH V or Sabertooth..
> 
> Thanks +rep.. even tho i'm still dissapointed.


I wouldn't sell it yet if i were you.

ASUS has said that it will be supported, it's just not clear yet what features you're going to be missing out on. Once BD releases see what features you're truly missing, and if it's worth switching at that point. ( Though it may be a harder sell then, so definitely something to think about







)

990X is mostly a refresh of 890X with some added features.


----------



## davidtran007

I thought the mods on the Asus ROG forums said that there will be a bios update on the CH IV to make it compatible with Bulldozer...


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835104*
> This whole time I thought it was gonna be compatible with the CH IV Formula.. well thats what Asus said..
> 
> Now I need to sell this & buy a CH V or Sabertooth..
> 
> Thanks +rep.. even tho i'm still dissapointed.


Hold off in that, AMD has said it won't support am3, but you might still be able to drop bd into your board. The support thing is more of a business move because they don't want to deal with all the problems that will arise from people using the cpu on a socket that will not fully support it.

So odds are you will be able to use bd on your current board but whatever problems arise would be on you and not on AMD .

Sent from my I500 using Tapatalk


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidtran007;14835136*
> I thought the mods on the Asus ROG forums said that there will be a bios update on the CH IV to make it compatible with Bulldozer...


Thats what I thought..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkboy;14835187*
> Hold off in that, AMD has said it won't support am3, but you might still be able to drop bd into your board. The support thing is more of a business move because they don't want to deal with all the problems that will arise from people using the cpu on a socket that will not fully support it.
> 
> So odds are you will be able to use bd on your current board but whatever problems arise would be on you and not on AMD .
> 
> Sent from my I500 using Tapatalk


I already made an appraisal thread. Gonna post it locally on craigslist & buy an open box CH V for 175$









Off topic: If anyone could tell me what its worth on my appraisal thread, that would be nice.


----------



## Evil Penguin

September 30th is the deadline for me.
If BD isn't out by then, I'm going with the competition.
Just thought I'd say that.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14835404*
> September 30th is the deadline for me.
> If BD isn't out by then, I'm going with the competition.
> Just thought I'd say that.


The deadline for me is whenever SB-E is released.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

So this is useless right?
http://razetheworld.com/hardware/asus-current-motherboard-supported-the-bulldozer-with-bios-update/


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14835420*
> The deadline for me is whenever SB-E is released.


but Usario what if regular SB outperforms the BD in major benchmarks? Then what? I mean I know what AMD has been buzzing leaking here and there but until we see actual benchmarks and actual stats... Ive seen guys OCing i5 2500k to 5 ghz... I mean seriously thats just insane. How is BD going to compete with that if it doesnt even meet the SB benchmarks at stock.

I'm seriously concerned about this possibility.

funny enough I haven't OC'd anything since 1994 (or maybe it was 1993) when a buddy and I OC'd a Pentium 1 60 mhz to 200mhz... it died the next day of course and I've been very wary of OCing anything since.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14835420*
> The deadline for me is whenever SB-E is released.


Another end of sept guy here...

However, I _might_ give them a little more time for Zambezi if Interlagos does indeed release this month and it benches well. Not a direct comparison, but it should give you a good idea of the client performance if you halve the cores and scale up to Zambezi like clockspeeds.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835500*
> So this is useless right?
> http://razetheworld.com/hardware/asus-current-motherboard-supported-the-bulldozer-with-bios-update/


No it is not.

Just because AMD will not support bulldozer in AM3 does not mean ASUS can not go off on their own and create a BIOS that will allow the chip to function. That bios will allow bulldozer to work in your current board, BUT how well it works and what features/performance you may lose is unknown. Also, since AMD is not supporting that config, for any problems you have to complain to ASUS or fix them yourself.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835500*
> So this is useless right?
> http://razetheworld.com/hardware/asus-current-motherboard-supported-the-bulldozer-with-bios-update/


Not necessarily. AMD is not supporting Bulldozer on AM3 boards, but realistically speaking, how would AMD know if it was ever in an AM3 board?









It's also not clear what features aren't going to work, so just wait for now.

Like I said before, 990X is mostly a refresh of 890X with added features. ( This opinion is based on 990X reviewers )


----------



## linkin93

I think you mean FX there, otherwise it's the name of an Intel CPU


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14835752*
> I think you mean FX there, otherwise it's the name of an Intel CPU


No, there's an 890X and 990X chipset from AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14835752*
> I think you mean FX there, otherwise it's the name of an Intel CPU


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/M5A99X_EVO/2.html

990FX is the higher end chipset, most people know what I meant. The point is valid.

890FX vs 990FX
Quote:


> I think that anyone who was hoping to see Bulldozer-based Zambezi processors hit store shelves in conjunction with this year's Computex show in Taipei is going to be disappointed by AMD's 990FX platform. *It's 890FX, with a new name to show forthcoming AM3+-based processors will work right out of the box.*
> 
> There's nothing wrong with that, though. In fact, I'm glad AMD came up with a way to show its customers how to get the most out of an upcoming processor without complicating the upgrade process. Enthusiasts who actually can be troubled to do their homework know that 890FX/990FX and AM3/AM3+ share mechanical compatibility, though it'll take 990FX and AM3+ to exploit Zambezi's power/frequency management features. No doubt 800-series boards will start becoming scarcer as the industry gears up to support AM3+.
> 
> As we all wait to see what the company's torch-bearing architecture can do, motherboard manufacturers are throwing us a little bone by licensing Nvidia's SLI technology for use on 990FX-based platforms. Is the capability worth ditching your old 890FX board and buying an upgrade?
> 
> That depends on how loyal you are to Nvidia. Now that AMD's CrossFire performance is much-improved, there's no real reason to shy away from multi-card configs from either vendor unless your trepidation comes from multi-card configs themselves.
> 
> What concerns us, though, is that in a direct comparison to a similarly-priced platform based on Core i5-2400 and Z68 Express, the Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition hit performance ceilings in a number of benchmarks where the GeForce GTX 570s in SLI still had performance left to offer. Intel's higher frame rates proved that the graphics cards weren't to blame.
> 
> *To that end, I really don't see a reason to buy 990FX right now. If your priority is top performance in multi-card configurations, you're buying an Intel-based platform.* And if you're in the market for a fast AMD machine, you'd be doing yourself an injustice by not waiting however long it takes for the Bulldozer-based Zambezi to materialize.
> 
> We're definitely hopeful that the licensing of SLI means AMD's Scorpius platform will perform well. Now's not really a good time to build a new gaming machine on Phenom II, though. So, today's 990FX launch ends up being a bit of a tease. We know what's coming; we just want it to get here already.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/990fx-sli-am3,2953-12.html


----------



## Naturecannon

by ARUN LENZFIRE on SEPTEMBER 6, 2011 Source
Quote:


> *Fudzilla vs Xbit Labs on AMD Bulldozer Release Date*
> On the one hand Fudzilla claims to have reliable sources that confirm the official launch of the Bulldozer chips on September 19, ie the same date suggested by a video released by AMD in the past Comic Con 2011 event. On the other hand, Xbit Labs claim Bulldozer chips suffer a further delay and could be launched during the last 2 weeks of November this year. Two contradictions now, Who to believe?
> 
> *What Lenzfire Says on AMD Bulldozer Release Date*
> Since this confusion persists, I personally contacted Miriam Cox from AMD, asking for the release date about AMD Bulldozer. I didn't even requested her to say to us but just to make some official press release regarding the same. Fortunately she replied me. But i couldn't get a clear inference regarding the release date
> 
> Miriam Cox: Hi Arun - I hear you, believe me. Look for more news on this front soon.
> 
> She just said this. So I guess it may not be delayed as she mention the word "soon". Also if they had plans to postpone the date, she might not have replied me, or in a negative way. So I think if at all not at the earlier predicted date, Bulldozer may be released at least within September.


Not much, but some hope at least.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14835404*
> September 30th is the deadline for me.
> If BD isn't out by then, I'm going with the competition.
> Just thought I'd say that.


I just got done ordering 955 + 990XA in hopes to wait for Sandy & my order comes Wednesday. I am going to wait till the end of sept but if BD is not out by then I am going to have to go the darkside. I dont have very much patience as it is to wait a month or 2-3


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14835877*
> by ARUN LENZFIRE on SEPTEMBER 6, 2011 Source
> 
> Not much, but some hope at least.


Hey your just like me, Hope your not planning BD in that mobo.. according to JF-AMD, our boards wont support BD.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14835877*
> by ARUN LENZFIRE on SEPTEMBER 6, 2011 Source
> 
> Not much, but some hope at least.


Promising.









Personally, I would be surprised if both versions of bulldozer did not launch in Q3. While they have mentioned Q2 (missed) and Q3 many times, to this date I have never heard AMD refer to Q4 in reference to their future CPU.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14834277*
> AMD's first wave of FX series high performance desktop processors will hit stores on 19 September, 2011, according to industry sources.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/149632/19-September-Launch-Day-for-FX-Series-Processors.html/


Does anyone know if this is true?


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14836152*
> Does anyone know if this is true?


So far nothing has been true. No one knows at all when BD will be released except for AMD. like JF said sit on your hands lol


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14836174*
> So far nothing has been true. No one knows at all when BD will be released except for AMD. like JF said sit on your hands lol


Okay, thanks.


----------



## LBear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14835500*
> So this is useless right?
> http://razetheworld.com/hardware/asus-current-motherboard-supported-the-bulldozer-with-bios-update/


Question is did they remove the extra pins from the 6 FX chips? If not then probably only certain chips will be able to fit in AM3 socket.


----------



## Fr0sty

i think we can put bulldozer as the most secretive project ever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear;14836251*
> Question is did they remove the extra pins from the 6 FX chips? If not then probably only certain chips will be able to fit in AM3 socket.


just because the am3+ socket would be xxx pins doesnt mean that the cpu's themselves have to have the exact same numbers of pins


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear;14836251*
> Question is did they remove the extra pins from the 6 FX chips? If not then probably only certain chips will be able to fit in AM3 socket.


The AM3 socket has more holes than the BD has pins and it will fit.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;14836152*
> Does anyone know if this is true?


If it is not true then there is only 14 more days until the next BD delay


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14836619*
> If it is not true then there is only 14 more days until the next BD delay


16 days after that, adios AMD.


----------



## Fr0sty

24 hour 15min left


----------



## Tweeky

Bulldozer


----------



## sumonpathak

^^source?
EDIT: 100th post


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14832622*
> 
> IPC isn't always fixed in programs
> 
> *Sandy Bridge proves this when compared to the more powerful Phenom II in programs that don't go for IPC but IPS*
> 
> Sandy Bridge is a low IPC design but a high IPS design
> (Lower instruction latencies and more optimized in compilers)
> 
> Phenom II/Llano is a high IPC design but a high IPS design in multithread
> 
> Bulldozer is a medium IPC design but an average IPS design


Can you provide examples and/or proof? (talking about programs that favor IPC instead of "IPS")


----------



## emersonsc

All i know is that with as much hype that AMD is creating around these CPUs... it better be more than just smoke up our butts. I remember AMD doing something similar to this when the Phenom IIs came out... they ended up being sub-par CPUs. If this family of CPUs cant outperform an old generation of Intel CPUs, then I will have to unfortunately jump ship and go Intel. I have been buying AMD only CPUs (and ATI back when it was ATI) for over a decade, since I got into computing. This will be the brick that broke the camels back here if this CPU is another sub-par performing chip. I think that AMD needs to come out with some sort of press release regarding the launch of these chips. They are going to end up loosing a lot of business if they surprise drop these possibly over-hyped chips and they end up under-performing.


----------



## chrystal

If bulldozer is not released at end of September I give up waiting for it, seriously..
This long wait can't continue.
I will buy whatever is within budget ofc , but this is my deadline now. Remember last year when people heard news about bulldozer and bought am3 boards, look where we are now , 1 year later...

Props for those with more patience though , I can always get another rig in summer along with a new one now instead of wait.

After all , GPU power is what gaming is about, I however wanted the bulldozer for my workstation.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq5O...layer_embedded


Hmm, my Rig only uses 20-30% at 3.4GHz, to do the same


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


Hmm, my Rig only uses 20-30% at 3.4GHz, to do the same










I like how he says "you'll notice it's running on all eight cores".

I notice SC2 running on all four cores as well.









Also that reminded me of my Dirt 3 benchmarking thread:


----------



## jck

I'm waiting.

That's all I'll say anymore.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like how he says "you'll notice it's running on all eight cores".


Yeah, like that's a new thing








------------------------

I'm not trying to slate BD!
But with the little offerings AMD give us. It's hard not to make assumptions from things, they do offer









The bod in the video, definitely says the game is using 30-40% CPU doing that re-play!
And so, I locked my chip down to 3.4GHz and tried to simulate what they did. And my CPU was mostly at 20% and lower, peaking at 30%








And I was running at 100fps!
------------------------------------

*I really do hope BD is as good as SB!* But from that video, I'm not so sure


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GameBoy*


Can you provide examples and/or proof? (talking about programs that favor IPC instead of "IPS")


IPC is throughput
IPS is rate

Rate Enthusiast says "I want to get 120 fps in say said game because my monitor is 120Hz, I don't care how expensive it is"
Throughput Enthusiast "I want to get alot [email protected] points for very cheap" or "I want to host several virtual computers for clients while saving money and power"

Most games max out around 1-2 Instructions per cycle
and FPS is really only high on CPUs that have high IPS

Sandy Bridges, Nehalem all have much higher IPS compared to Current AMD Chips

The point AMD starts coming back with IPC w/ games is after 1920x1080+(Triple monitor and higher resolutions)

On Windows you are more likely to hit a bottleneck than to achieve the theoretical max for IPC


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


The point AMD starts coming back with IPC w/ games is after 1920x1080+(Triple monitor and higher resolutions)



AMD starts to come back because modern GPUs even in CF/SLI aren't powerful enough to actually push for more data. High res, more screens, more gpu load.

A single monitor system running 120 fps requires more cpu performance than a triple screen setup running 60 fps.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


Yeah, like that's a new thing








------------------------

I'm not trying to slate BD!
But with the little offerings AMD give us. It's hard not to make assumptions from things, they do offer









The bod in the video, definitely says the game is using 30-40% CPU doing that re-play!
And so, I locked my chip down to 3.4GHz and tried to simulate what they did. And my CPU was mostly at 20% and lower, peaking at 30%








And I was running at 100fps!
------------------------------------

*I really do hope BD is as good as SB!* But from that video, I'm not so sure










Did you ever consider that the system in the video could've had more powerful graphics than your system?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Did you ever consider that the system in the video could've had more powerful graphics than your system?


Well considering it's a single stock 6970 and overclocked 470s are as fast or faster in dirt 3 than 6970 CF and he has 480 SLI...









Edit: Whats going on at 28 seconds, is that a driver malfunction?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Well considering it's a single stock 6970 and overclocked 470s are as fast or faster in dirt 3 than 6970 CF and he has 480 SLI...









Edit: Whats going on at 28 seconds, is that a driver malfunction?


I don't feel like going back to find the post that you guys are talking about, but did he lower his resolution too? The monitor in that video wasn't running at 1080p.

Lower res=more CPU usage=fact.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Lower res=more CPU usage=fact.



Lower res= more fps = more cpu usage = fact.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Lower res= more fps = more cpu usage = fact.


We don't know the FPS. I left that out intentionally. Lowering your CPU clocks without lowering your resolution isn't going to give an accurate comparison, if it gives one anyway.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


We don't know the FPS. I left that out intentionally. Lowering your CPU clocks without lowering your resolution isn't going to give an accurate comparison, if it gives one anyway.


I'm not sure what your point is, if he's using 480s in SLI then even at 1080p he should get more fps than a single 6970 at a slightly lower res.

It really wasn't a scientific comparison, no reason to attempt to discount it like it was one.

Also what is that at 28 seconds, ATI drivers, or a cpu problem?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm not sure what your point is, if he's using 480s in SLI then even at 1080p he should get more fps than a single 6970 at a slightly lower res.

It really wasn't a scientific comparison, no reason to attempt to discount it like it was one.

Also what is that at 28 seconds, ATI drivers, or a cpu problem?


Not sure on that, but I'm trying to figure out what his CPU usage was at same speed at same resolution because he was saying that he only had 20% CPU usage. I'm not trying to discredit anything. I'm curious about the subject.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

While there is no absolute, definitive assurances. This just might be a relevant piece of info I have just received from AMD. Saying that they will be making a "historic announcement" on Sept. 13th.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop*


While there is no absolute, definitive assurances. This just might be a relevant piece of info I have just received from AMD. Saying that they will be making a "historic announcement" on Sept. 13th.



















Are you going?


----------



## videoman5

Wasn't the NDA supposed to be lifted today?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *videoman5*


Wasn't the NDA supposed to be lifted today?


I never signed one, so I don't know.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Are you going?


I'd love to, but I have to many obligations with my business to do so. :/


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop*


I'd love to, but I've have to many obligations with my business to do so. :/


That's too bad man, I'm sure it would be a cool experience.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *videoman5*


Wasn't the NDA supposed to be lifted today?


That's what rumors said. Just goes to show you how frustrating it can be to only be able to go by rumors on any hope of information.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Not sure on that, but I'm trying to figure out what his CPU usage was at same speed at same resolution because he was saying that he only had 20% CPU usage. I'm not trying to discredit anything. I'm curious about the subject.


For me, usage hovered around 11-23%, with a quad core @ 3.5GHz fixed.










Assuming x2 for cores, you'd /2 for usage, so about 6-12% usage on a Intel SB octo core if one ever existed.

Just remember it's probably still an ES, even SBe ES at this point looks bad.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


For me, usage hovered around 11-23%, with a quad core @ 3.5GHz fixed.










Assuming x2 for cores, you'd /2 for usage, so about 6-12% usage on a Intel SB octo core if one ever existed.

Just remember it's probably still an ES, even SBe ES at this point looks bad.


Thanks for taking the time to do that.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Well considering it's a single stock 6970 and overclocked 470s are as fast or faster in dirt 3 than 6970 CF and he has 480 SLI...









Edit: Whats going on at 28 seconds, is that a driver malfunction?


6970?

Didn't the guy on the vid say it was a 6950?


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


6970?

Didn't the guy on the vid say it was a 6950?


Yes he said 6950


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


6970?

Didn't the guy on the vid say it was a 6950?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*


Yes he said 6950


Would a lesser graphics card raise CPU usage? I don't know if that's possible at all.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Lower res=more CPU usage=fact.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Lower res= more fps = more cpu usage = fact.


Both of you have no idea how wrong you are

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/866/lowrescpu.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/145...rescpuonly.jpg <-- going to redo this one to make sure it was just a one time thing(It stalled and nearly gave me a heart attack)((Overheating in the high res and not in the low res)

They are big images

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2...escpuonly2.jpg <-- use this one for comparison

CPU usage is about the same

The benchmark starts when the CPU spikes to 100% and ends when it hits below 50%

But using max GPU settings it looks to be more of a CPU isn't clocked high enough bottleneck

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9388/lowresn.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9154/highresn.jpg


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Would a lesser graphics card raise CPU usage? I don't know if that's possible at all.


I believe that it has some sort of effect as far as raising cpu usage goes.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Both of you have no idea how wrong you are


Your first results show low res getting lower fps than higher res.

Come back to me when you can make sense out of that.

The second set is as it should be, lower cpu usage, lower fps, higher settings.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Would a lesser graphics card raise CPU usage? I don't know if that's possible at all.


I suppose if there was an element that could be handled by either CPU or GPU and the GPU was pretty much handling all it can bare (or it momentarily peaked) said element might tossed on the CPU's plate.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

A lesser card would require less cpu clocks, because it would not push the fps as high.

This is assuming vsync isn't involved, if it is then a lesser card or greater card would make no difference unless the lesser card was unable to maintain the vsync (typically 60) fps.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Both of you have no idea how wrong you are

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/866/lowrescpu.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/145...rescpuonly.jpg <-- going to redo this one to make sure it was just a one time thing(It stalled and nearly gave me a heart attack)((Overheating in the high res and not in the low res)

They are big images

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2...escpuonly2.jpg <-- use this one for comparison

CPU usage is about the same

The benchmark starts when the CPU spikes to 100% and ends when it hits below 50%

But using max GPU settings it looks to be more of a CPU isn't clocked high enough bottleneck

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9388/lowresn.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9154/highresn.jpg


Ummmm...you kind of proved my point. In your last set of images your CPU spiked higher at lower resolution.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Would a lesser graphics card raise CPU usage? I don't know if that's possible at all.


The more powerful the GPU/s, the more usage on the CPU.
A "lesser" card can only raise the CPU usage if you play a game at a low resolution which forces the CPU to do most of the work. I've seen this in a lot of cases.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Blue screen of brain death


I am more interested in your background and therefore humbly request that you make it available for my perusal.


----------



## ACHILEE5

I was at 1080p, 3.4GHz and 100fps









But as Bella said! The AMD chip was probably an ES chip! So maybe we still can't do much guessing









This is the Video we're talking about, for those that missed it









  
 You Tube


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I'd like to know how they got the monitor to be that small and only show those things.

AMD just +'ed me


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


I was at 1080p, 3.4GHz and 100fps









But as Bella said! The AMD chip was probably an ES chip! So maybe we still can't do much guessing









This is the Video we're talking about, for those that missed it









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq5O...layer_embedded


Now that i look at it more closely it seems to be a recording of the game, also he merely says its a high res on 16:10 and not 1080p


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


I was at 1080p, 3.4GHz and 100fps









But as Bella said! The AMD chip was probably an ES chip! So maybe we still can't do much guessing









This is the Video we're talking about, for those that missed it









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq5O...layer_embedded


Thanks. I want to ask a favor. Can you disable one of your 480's and see what usage is at 720p?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


Now that i look at it more closely it seems to be a recording of the game, also he merely says its a high res on 16:10 and not 1080p


It's a reply, which is what I did... I raced, then replayed it and tracked usage during the replay.

He says 16x10, 1680 x 1050 would be my guess.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Thanks. I want to ask a favor. Can you disable one of your 480's and see what usage is at 720p?


Will do bud









so 720 or 1050









That monitor they call 16/10 looks like a 16/9 to me! But smaller than 1080p ???


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;14843637*
> Will do bud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so 720 or 1050


Both would be really cool since I'm not sure of the resolution of the monitor. Thanks a lot man.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

1600x900?

Someone needs to tell me how to get my task manager that small, or if its not task manager, what they're using.


----------



## Blackops_2

Maybe run it in windowed mode, drag the task manager all the way down until only showing the core's utilization?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843697*
> 1600x900?
> 
> Someone needs to tell me how to get my task manager that small, or if its not task manager, what they're using.


Good question. I can get it that long, but I can't shrink it.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;14843637*
> Will do bud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so 720 or 1050
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That monitor they call 16/10 looks like a 16/9 to me! But smaller than 1080p ???


these are the 16:10 resolution's that i know about:

1280x800,1440x900,1600x1024,1680x1050,1920x1200,2560x1600 and 3840x2400.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14843799*
> Good question. I can get it that long, but I can't shrink it.


If you look closely at it, it's a window and it doesn't show any other information other than cores.

My task manager shows way more stuff, so even dropping it down out of window view doesn't produce the same result they have.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843874*
> If you look closely at it, it's a window and it doesn't show any other information other than cores.
> 
> My task manager shows way more stuff, so even dropping it down out of window view doesn't produce the same result they have.


Yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe they made their own so that's all it would show.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843874*
> If you look closely at it, it's a window and it doesn't show any other information other than cores.
> 
> My task manager shows way more stuff, so even dropping it down out of window view doesn't produce the same result they have.


Might be a custom task manager or it could be a fake to let intel's guard down?


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14843776*
> Maybe run it in windowed mode, drag the task manager all the way down until only showing the core's utilization?


like this









one GPU, with CPU at 3.4GHz!

was at 30% CPU usage, I'd say as average


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;14844048*
> like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one GPU, with CPU at 3.4GHz!
> 
> was at 30% CPU usage, I'd say as average


Thanks for doing that man.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Notice how it doesn't use HT at all?

Looks closer to about 50% usage on the active cores, though to be fair I'm 99% positive AMD used vsync.


----------



## wickedout

So when will the big Bulldozer be released? This has to help for price cuts on CPU's!


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14844106*
> Notice how it doesn't use HT at all?
> 
> Looks closer to about 50% usage on the active cores, though to be fair I'm 99% positive AMD used vsync.


yeah, 50-60% on those active threads








But when playing the game, it does use 5 threads!

I'm just trying to gauge 8 threads against AMD 8 cores









This was the roughest science ever. But what can ya do


----------



## erocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14844106*
> Notice how it doesn't use HT at all?
> 
> Looks closer to about 50% usage on the active cores, though to be fair I'm 99% positive AMD used vsync.


With 113 fps displayed in the lower right corner of the screen?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Uh? That's the Intel/Nvidia system.


----------



## Death Saved

Apparently BD is delayed till october









Those who aren't waiting any more can make use of intel's discounts and new cpu's (or you can just wait an extra couple of weeks)


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14843025*


are they announcing BD release(Historic Announcement Sept-13th) for Oct like the Xbit article says?
i hope not because that will be a Sad Panda Party for sure


----------



## kzone75

Cool! More waiting.


----------



## bru_05

Does Dirt 3 have some kind of benchmarking program with it or stress test? I've never played it to know, but it seems like it is used in a lot of benchmarking tests. My computer has been boxed up for a year now so I'm not up to speed with any of this. Just playing the waiting game to see what BD brings.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14844727*
> Does Dirt 3 have some kind of benchmarking program with it or stress test? I've never played it to know, but it seems like it is used in a lot of benchmarking tests. My computer has been boxed up for a year now so I'm not up to speed with any of this. Just playing the waiting game to see what BD brings.


This appears to be the official benchmark for it(or the next best thing)


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved;14844820*
> This appears to be the official benchmark for it(or the next best thing)


Ohhhhh got it. Thanks bud, I'll have to check it out when/if BD comes out and I get my rig built.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14844727*
> Does Dirt 3 have some kind of benchmarking program .


It does have a built in bench!
But, I think AMD are just using it because of the game being multi threaded









And to be fair to AMD, we have no way of telling what fps that AMD Rig was doing!
As when I ran the game in windowed mode, v-sync didn't work!








And the higher the fps, the higher the CPU load!


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14844716*
> are they announcing BD release(Historic Announcement Sept-13th) for Oct like the Xbit article says?
> i hope not because that will be a Sad Panda Party for sure


Dunno, but thanks for the free info and all.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;14844880*
> It does have a built in bench!
> But, I think AMD are just using it because of the game being multi threaded


Yeah, I'm sure they use whatever makes BD look the best. But, that's business as usual.

Hoping it plays BF3 well...should get a good "core" workout with that







.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14844977*
> *Yeah, I'm sure they use whatever makes BD look the best. But, that's business as usual.*
> 
> Hoping it plays BF3 well...should get a good "core" workout with that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


And, it did look sweet








But the fps variable, is too much to judge the chip!

I was thinking they would be using v-sync for sure. But v-sync didn't work for me when the game was windowed!
So we still don't know any more than before









*IMO*, Bulldozer will be more than powerful enough for our GPUs and today's games!
Just like the 2500k and 2600k chips are!
When you think, I did those tests *underclocked*!
And I don't really know why I even overclock my CPU


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14844716*
> are they announcing BD release(Historic Announcement Sept-13th) for Oct like the Xbit article says?
> i hope not because that will be a Sad Panda Party for sure


Considering this tweet, perhaps not... As always it's best to take things with a grain of salt, it could be a ploy for hits, but let's hope launch is near.


----------



## StarDestroyer

I don't know how well Dirt 3 is encoded and all that, but I can run it maxed @1080p and use v-sync and mostly keep it at 60fps

I'd like to see it in SC2 or something like that or something with a CF thats already hard on CPU

really I want benches duh


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;14845283*
> But v-sync didn't work for me when the game was windowed!


It did for me









Radeons are slightly slower than Nvidia cards in Dirt 3, my guess is they used vsync as to keep the gpu and cpu running low rpm fan speeds (for noise purposes).


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14844716*
> are they announcing BD release(Historic Announcement Sept-13th) for Oct like the Xbit article says?
> i hope not because that will be a Sad Panda Party for sure


They didn't say one way or the other. Could be a paper launch, could also be a full retail launch. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm fairly certain of one thing...it's going to be about BD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14844905*
> Dunno, but thanks for the free info and all.


Lol! That was my posted info he was quoting









http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-421.html#post14843025


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14845433*
> Considering this tweet, perhaps not... As always it's best to take things with a grain of salt, it could be a ploy for hits, but let's hope launch is near.


492$ for a ud7??? 339$ for a crosshair V ???

LOLL


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;1484528*
> *IMO*, Bulldozer will be more than powerful enough for our GPUs and today's games!
> Just like the 2500k and 2600k chips are!
> When you think, I did those tests *underclocked*!
> And I don't really know why I even overclock my CPU


I agree. My guess is they will be on par with the 2600k/2500k's. In price and performance. With that being said before the intel crowd comes in and beats me down... I do understand the difference bw Sandy and BD. Quad vs. Octo. But it comes down to price and performance regardless of how they get there.

Find out soon enough anyway!


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843697*
> 1600x900?
> 
> Someone needs to tell me how to get my task manager that small, or if its not task manager, what they're using.


They have just dragged 3 quarters of the window off the screen.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14845720*
> 492$ for a ud7??? 339$ for a crosshair V ???
> LOLL


It may not be USD..., in some other countries/marketplaces those prices could very well be real (especially with a monopoly).

Also, Sept.13 seems really hyped up, hope AMD delivers.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14843375*
> Would a lesser graphics card raise CPU usage? I don't know if that's possible at all.


No, the faster the GPU can run, the more likely the CPU will be the bottleneck.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843874*
> If you look closely at it, it's a window and it doesn't show any other information other than cores.
> 
> My task manager shows way more stuff, so even dropping it down out of window view doesn't produce the same result they have.


Double click the core graphs.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Are you sure, this is what it looks like when you pull it down:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843290*


Here is what theirs looks like:










I notice differences, there is no window "header" for one, and the window seems to stop and does not continue down past the super bar.

Edit:

Standard windows task manage:










Notice there is no header, no menu bar either, and the overlay on the bulldozer video is on top of the dirt 3 game, not below it.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14846087*
> No, the faster the GPU can run, the more likely the CPU will be the bottleneck.
> 
> *Double click the core graphs*.


Double clicking anywhere Removes the boarder.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved;14844697*
> Apparently BD is delayed till october
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who aren't waiting any more can make use of intel's discounts and new cpu's (or you can just wait an extra couple of weeks)


"a source with knowledge of the company's plans revealed."
This could very well be fake news, esp. with Xbit's existing reputation for it. Take this one into consideration but with an extremely large grain of salt.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14846143*
> Are you sure, this is what it looks like when you pull it down:
> 
> Here is what theirs looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I notice differences, there is no window "header" for one, and the window seems to stop and does not continue down past the super bar.


It could possibly be on Windows 8. I've seen something floating around concerning Win8/BD/Dirt3 recently.....for the life of me though, I can't find it.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14846144*
> Double clicking anywhere Removes the boarder.


Haha, I knew it was different! Thanks for schooling me, at least now I know how to do it.

Thanks again








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14846184*
> It could possibly be on Windows 8. I've seen something floating around concerning Win8/BD/Dirt3 recently.....for the life of me though, I can't find it.


Nah it was explained, double clicking the cpu monitoring area makes it look like that:










Which is nice, I can use that to reduce clutter


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14846158*
> "a source with knowledge of the company's plans revealed."
> This could very well be fake news, esp. with Xbit's existing reputation for it. Take this one into consideration but with an extremely large grain of salt.


Is that why the Thread was deleted?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14846246*
> Is that why the Thread was deleted?


wow,just noticed that too and it's not even been moved to the rumour&unconfirmed section? just straight up delete?

the longer this BD goes on delaying the more twitchy forums become


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;14845604*
> They didn't say one way or the other. Could be a paper launch, could also be a full retail launch. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm fairly certain of one thing...it's going to be about BD.


or they are being bought out by intel

but hopefully its a launch of any type and not another date, unless its the sept 19 date


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14846158*
> "a source with knowledge of the company's plans revealed."
> This could very well be fake news, esp. with Xbit's existing reputation for it. Take this one into consideration but with an extremely large grain of salt.


Did you delete the XBit thread?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;14846464*
> Did you delete the XBit thread?


Yep, it's gone. Good riddens too.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14846438*
> or they are being bought out by intel
> 
> but hopefully its a launch of any type and not another date, unless its the sept 19 date


Intel buying out AMD could never happen for various reasons,not to mention Intel has a large enough monopoly over the market as it is.
September 19th. as a paper or product date seems to be all over,but so was the delayed date back in June.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14846551*
> Yep, it's gone. Good riddens too.


Meh,it should have went in the rumors/unconfirmed articles section.


----------



## Fr0sty

september 19th might be an xs overclocking event ... some members hinted that renowned ocer chew* had a tray of fx chips + comic con cartoon hinted at a couple of things on a screen with the date september 19 at the bottom ... so it could be that

but its all speculation


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14846685*
> september 19th might be an xs overclocking event ... some members hinted that renowned ocer chew* had a tray of fx chips + comic con cartoon hinted at a couple of things on a screen with the date september 19 at the bottom ... so it could be that
> 
> but its all speculation


If the speculation is true it means AMD would need to do a paper launch on the day of the overclocking event?


----------



## Fr0sty

they could do that ... announce the launch with sick benchmark scores on hand ... or paper launch prior to hype up the oc event ...

so many possibility to look forward to


----------



## tjwurzburger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14843697*
> 1600x900?
> 
> Someone needs to tell me how to get my task manager that small, or if its not task manager, what they're using.


Hope this hasn't already been answered. Here's how you do it in 3 easy steps:

1. Show task manager, double-click where indicated.










2. You end up with an unadorned window.










3. Now resize and position as desired.


----------



## giver660

I'm finding myself fairly concerned that, assuming this fancy new BD contraption DOES eventually hit the market, it may be a bit underwhelming. Oh well. I'll be waiting until October 1st and on October 2nd I'm either going to be the proud new owner of a BD or a 2600k.


----------



## StarDestroyer

whats a paper launch, do they release benches and/or end NDAs


----------



## chasefrench

JF has clearly stated 100 times there will be no paper launch.

This means it launches for real on the 19th or it has been delayed until October. We will know soon enough.

Nobody has any clue when the NDAs expire.

Right now the only thing meaningful, is the "19th September" hidden in an official AMD cartoon press release. It is the only thing I believe right now. It might be the release, it might not be, but something is happening on that day. Given that the frame with that date in the cartoon, is a kid sitting at home playing on his computer, leads me to believe that is the release date.


----------



## Tyreal

did the NDA not end TODAY?? *Sept 6th, 2011*??
nothing still or what?


----------



## Zero_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyreal;14848895*
> did the NDA not end TODAY?? *Sept 6th, 2011*??
> nothing still or what?


I got a few tweets from various sites/editors saying that they have 'FX in the house' and similar stuff. I assume they are already testing retail samples.


----------



## Tyreal

Good to hear. keep us updated with real benchmarks, and cpu-z validation links.
untill then /im-out


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero_;14848938*
> I got a few tweets from various sites/editors saying that they have 'FX in the house' and similar stuff. I assume they are already testing retail samples.


Which means, if true, that the delay was complete FUD like I thought.


----------



## JCPUser

Source









Article says that Interlagos will launch in Q4, *BUT* Zambezi is still slated to be announced this month.

I also took the liberty of making a news thread.


----------



## OverShocked

Cant wait! Zero, you mind letting us know who said they had BD in for review?

Hopefully we will see benchies tomorrow if this is accurate!


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

double posted oops :/


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

oops.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14849386*
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article says that Interlagos will launch in Q4, *BUT* Zambezi is still slated to be announced this month.
> 
> *I also took the liberty of making a news thread*.


Sweet!!! Like the thread!!!


----------



## Zero_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverShocked;14849399*
> Cant wait! Zero, you mind letting us know who said they had BD in for review?
> 
> Hopefully we will see benchies tomorrow if this is accurate!


At work and cant access twitter







Will try to find it soon.

Usually people get to play around with these stuff for atleast a week before launch AFAIK. I remember Toms not being happy that they had the test samples 'only' 3 days before launch for some product.


----------



## BigCactus

Can't wait for September 26


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14849386*
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article says that Interlagos will launch in Q4, *BUT* Zambezi is still slated to be announced this month.
> 
> I also took the liberty of making a news thread.


Quote:


> Check out the full press release next page and stay tuned for an analytical piece from us later today.


what does this mean???

:O


----------



## Canis-X

hmmmmm









Update: AMD starts shipping Bulldozers, but only server variety
Quote:


> AMD has just announced the commencement of revenue shipments for the very first Bulldozer-based CPU in their lineup. That is good news in any case, as it was expected for quite a while. But what CPU flavour is it exactly?
> 
> The answer is: 'Interlagos', *the G34-socket dual die MCM with a total of 8 dual core blocks, for a total of 16 integer and 8 FP units.* It is aimed at dual socket and quad socket general purpose servers and HPC nodes in those applications *NOT requiring very high per-core performance*, but just many cores for situations with many less demanding tasks running in parallel - think of huge database search operation, for instance.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14850508*
> hmmmmm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Update: AMD starts shipping Bulldozers, but only server variety


Servers never really need big per core performance but rather performance/watt. You can't really draw any conclusions from those statements without benchmarks.

As for the "server only shipping" comment... it was reported eariler in this thread that people have started to get FX chips in for review. And VR-Zone themselves (different author) referred to 9/17.

AMD has said A LOT about Interlagos (the whole Blog on thier site is about server) and very very little about desktop. Zambezi could be shipping and AMD may have just chosen not to announce that fact. Nothing to do but wait and see and oh yeah... hope.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14850508*
> hmmmmm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Update: AMD starts shipping Bulldozers, but only server variety


repost ... and btw dont think it means amd didnt improve ipc ... because they did

jf-amd confirmed it that ipc have increased


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14850718*
> repost ... and btw dont think it means amd didnt improve ipc ... because they did
> 
> jf-amd confirmed it that ipc have increased


when did he confirm this? got a link?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *giver660*


I'm finding myself fairly concerned that, assuming this fancy new BD contraption DOES eventually hit the market, it may be a bit underwhelming. Oh well. I'll be waiting until October 1st and on October 2nd I'm either going to be the proud new owner of a BD or a 2600k.


If you are curious about BD then wait for true, official benchmarks before you run to Intel. This seems to be a common thread here, and it is getting _really old_. Read my signature.


----------



## Jared2608

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Considering this tweet, perhaps not... As always it's best to take things with a grain of salt, it could be a ploy for hits, but let's hope launch is near.










I visited this site. I'm pretty sure that this is a South African website/magazine. I say this because if you notice one of the Tweets says "Rectron fail". Rectron is a wholesaler of PC parts in South Africa, I'm registered as a buyer with them.

Also, if you visit the website they have on the tweet, you will see that the RAGE expo is being announced, RAGE is our big tech expo.

If he has FX chips, then that would mean they are already in the country. Considering that we are often a few weeks behind, and with AMD stuff sometimes even more than that, if he is in South Africa, and he does have an FX chip, that would mean that the launch is probably imminent because they wouldn't have the stuff here just to gather dust....

As for the prices, I believe they could be right, if you consider that a Croshair V can range in price here from R2300.00 to R2800.00. That's between $320 and $400, but not everyone that sells them cheap has stock so you never know what you might pay...


----------



## el gappo

They are Australian









Very lucky to have FX this soon.


----------



## Jared2608

Man that makes me sad now...I thought there was a chance that we might get the stuff soon....I didn't know there was a Rectron in Australia....I also don't know why the would be advertising the RAGE event on an Australian site....


----------



## Jinny1

http://www.techpowerup.com/151709/AM...irst-Wave.html

AMD Delays FX Series Launch to October, Expands First Wave


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


http://www.techpowerup.com/151709/AM...irst-Wave.html

AMD Delays FX Series Launch to October, Expands First Wave


Woo awesome birthday present for me!

Boo another delay


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Me is sad panda...


----------



## massman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


They are Australian









Very lucky to have FX this soon.


Neo, editor/owner/published is South African. Nick, who used to run the magazine, is British by the way.

Chip's retail shape, apparently. Called local distributor, but they don't have samples yet. I assume local offices have samples and they are seeding them to selected media.


----------



## Jared2608

If they have samples...then why delay again...I am disappoint...

So maybe he was talking about the Rectron here...could I become un-disappoint soon...


----------



## Scorpion87

Ahhh... the wait is killing me :/


----------



## StarDestroyer

AMD better have something worth while on next tuesday sept 13 event

as for the tech powerup article, they just reference xbitlabs, not a AMD source, so...who knows


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


http://www.techpowerup.com/151709/AM...irst-Wave.html


Their source is the same xbit article that had the unnamed credible source that was completely deleted off of a previous threat. I'll take it with a grain a salt until AMD says something.

AMD Delays FX Series Launch to October, Expands First Wave

Sent from my I500 using Tapatalk


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Junkboy*


Their source is the same xbit article that had the unnamed credible source that was completely deleted off of a previous threat. I'll take it with a grain a salt until AMD says something.

AMD Delays FX Series Launch to October, Expands First Wave

Sent from my I500 using Tapatalk


^^THIS

The Xbit crap article was deleted for a reason and this source references Xbit. Interlagos is shipping and either AMD is currently shipping Zambezi (quietly) or this will be shipping Zambezi very soon.


----------



## Jared2608

I also can't see them sending samples to some people, if the stories are true, and then delaying it again, it just seems like putting the cart before the horse!!


----------



## Evil Penguin

Here's the thing. 
A reputable site like TPU would only post rumors they find somewhat relevant. 
I think Kyle, Anand and several other people know it has been delayed.


----------



## Benz

If John didn't make any post about this "supposed" delay, then it's probably fake.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


If John didn't make any post about this "supposed" delay, then it's probably fake.


He doesn't comment on client side.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


He doesn't comment on client side.










this is OCN, not old people running servers at high school and office building, figure someone from AMD desktops would have started a BD thread for overclockers


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


http://www.techpowerup.com/151709/AM...irst-Wave.html

AMD Delays FX Series Launch to October, Expands First Wave


Source of that article is the Xbit article, which even says "Data compiled by *unofficial* sources."

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Here's the thing. 
A reputable site like TPU would only post rumors they find somewhat relevant. 
I think Kyle, Anand and several other people know it has been delayed.


Still, if people are receiving samples, it's about 2 weeks until launch.


----------



## JF-AMD

Interlagos is shipping for revenue now, launch is in Q4. We have not made any statements on the client side, do not imply anything from this.

The only thing you should note is that the design is now through silicon validation and in the fab for manufacturing. More to come this evening when I get out of all of my meetings.

Please don't ask me the obvious that you know I cannot answer.


----------



## Homeles

Well you guys have heard about the "big announcement" on the 13th, right? Wonder what that's all about.


----------



## nicksasa

@JF-AMD Any reason there isn't an "Director of Product Marketing for Desktop Products" on oc forums ?
Also if Interlagos is in the fab right now, BD should be released just fine this month since it was sheduled a quarter before Interlagos.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nicksasa*


@JF-AMD Any reason there isn't an "Director of Product Marketing for Desktop Products" on oc forums ?
Also if Interlagos is in the fab right now, BD should be released just fine this month since it was sheduled a quarter before Interlagos.


i thought JF said they switched server to be released before client,when they commented on the last delay(60-90)thing.i will look for the comment but i'm pretty sure it said nothing to worry about just a small shift or some sort.

EDIT: here are the quotes from JF regarding the june 1st delay slides

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point.Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.Sometimes it is frustrating to sit on the inside and know what is going on while all of the rumors swirl.You can't say anything, and the moment you make a statement about one thing
every starts trying to read into that or ask about a million other rumors.That is why you can't comment on the rumors it's an endless downward spiral.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All I am saying is that server is still set to launch in Q3.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


A. I thought I already addressed ES on this forum, why are we still beating that dead horse?B. I have said (in other places) that the delay is scheduling. Client moved from Q2-Q3 because of some re-scheduling server is staying in Q3. If you want to read anything into that, you can see that there is not a huge amount of time difference between them, and the fact that server stays in Q3 should be an indicator that all of the rumors and speculation are massively overplayed.


so if client was moved to be released Q3 and and server was supposed to go Q3 too,and now server is Q4 then maybe we will see BD in Q4 too?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


launch is in Q4.


Didnt like this part.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nicksasa*


@JF-AMD Any reason there isn't an "Director of Product Marketing for Desktop Products" on oc forums ?


This has been answered in the Sticky FAQ

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

Q. Why don't you comment on client stuff? Why don't you get a client guy to post on here?
A. I am in the server world, I comment on my products. I will not comment on their products, because I don't want them commenting on mine. The few times I have ventured into the client world, I have caught flack for my comments. It is not worth the trouble. Based on the filth that seeps into my inbox from a very small segment of the enthusiast world, I can understand why the client people might not want to make their names known. When you are attacked in a vicious way for no reason, and you are doing this on your own time, you start to ask "why bother"?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Interlagos is shipping for revenue now, launch is in Q4. We have not made any statements on the client side, do not imply anything from this.

The only thing you should note is that the design is now through silicon validation and in the fab for manufacturing. More to come this evening when I get out of all of my meetings.

Please don't ask me the obvious that you know I cannot answer.


About that desktop







. Offer still good?


----------



## EnJoY

Important to note that John is speaking in fiscal year terms, not calender year terms.

4th Quarter in fiscal year: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnJoY*


Important to note that John is speaking in fiscal year terms, not calender year terms.

4th Quarter in fiscal year: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011


How do we know this? JF can you confirm?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnJoY*


Important to note that John is speaking in fiscal year terms, not calender year terms.

4th Quarter in fiscal year: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011


Are you sure. I know that is the fiscal year dates, but most announcements have been by calender dates not fiscal year.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


The only thing you should note is that the design is now through silicon validation and in the fab for manufacturing. More to come this evening when I get out of all of my meetings.


What exactly does this mean, for those of us who are ignorant, such as myself?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Just so you guys see it....

Tankguys is now offering a PreOrder for 3 models of Bulldozer chips.









Now don't go barging into his thread and pestering him with annoying questions that he can't answer either. Just letting you guys know that pre orders are coming up.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnJoY*


Important to note that John is speaking in fiscal year terms, not calender year terms.

4th Quarter in fiscal year: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011


I believe you're wrong.

Direct from AMD, their fiscal year calendar ends December of each year.

And I quote:

*"AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that it will report the results of its fiscal quarter and year ending Dec. 25, 2010 during a conference call on Thursday, Jan. 20, 2011 at 5:00 pm EST/ 2:00 pm PST."*

And in their SEC filing, AMD states:

*"The Company uses a 52 or 53 week fiscal year ending on the last Saturday in December. The quarter and six months ended July 2, 2011 consisted of 13
and 27 weeks, respectively. The quarter and six months ended June 26, 2010 consisted of 13 and 26 weeks, respectively."*

from: 10-Q
Quarterly report pursuant to sections 13 or 15(d)
Filed on 08/10/2011
Filed Period 07/02/2011

...so unless AMD changed their fiscal year calendar (which I saw no mention of on their site), I believe Q4 of FY2011 ends December 31, 2011.

Quoting AMD about AMD topics is the most sure way to be accurate.









DISCLAIMER: I am neither a representative of AMD, nor am I a financial analyst or attorney. I could be totally wrong. I just go by what I read.


----------



## EnJoY

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


How do we know this? JF can you confirm?



http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=amd

Well, apparently AMD's fiscal year ends December 25th. So...bleh.


----------



## radaja

Tankguy prices are very sweet indeed!!!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Just so you guys see it....

Tankguys is now offering a PreOrder for 3 models of Bulldozer chips.










OMG Thank you so much for sharing


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Just so you guys see it....

Tankguys is now offering a PreOrder for 3 models of Bulldozer chips.









Now don't go barging into his thread and pestering him with annoying questions that he can't answer either. Just letting you guys know that pre orders are coming up.


pioneerisloud:

Is TankGuys a preferred vendor/partner of OCN?

Just wanna make sure. If so, I might buy from them rather than Newegg.

If it helps OCN, I'd look into dealing with your partners. I can afford a little extra price-wise to do that.

NOTE: I should have PMed this post. Sorry JF-AMD.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


pioneerisloud:

Is TankGuys a preferred vendor/partner of OCN?

Just wanna make sure. If so, I might buy from them rather than Newegg.

If it helps OCN, I'd look into dealing with your partners. I can afford a little extra price-wise to do that.


Tankguys is AMAZING. They've been around for a very VERY long time, and they usually offer hand picked CPU's. I remember in the C2Q days, when the G0 revision first hit. All the CPU's from Tankguys were hitting 3.8-4.0GHz. The ones off newegg were doing 3.2-3.6.

EDIT:
Linked the Tankguy's pre order thread in the OP so its easy to find. Hopefully JF-AMD doesn't get too mad.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i thought JF said they switched server to be released before client,when they commented on the last delay(60-90)thing.i will look for the comment but i'm pretty sure it said nothing to worry about just a small shift or some sort.

EDIT: here are the quotes from JF regarding the june 1st delay slides...

Quote:



Originally Posted by JF-AMD 
Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point.Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.Sometimes it is frustrating to sit on the inside and know what is going on while all of the rumors swirl.You can't say anything, and the moment you make a statement about one thing
every starts trying to read into that or ask about a million other rumors.That is why you can't comment on the rumors it's an endless downward spiral.



Quote:



Originally Posted by JF-AMD 
All I am saying is that server is still set to launch in Q3.



Quote:



Originally Posted by JF-AMD 
A. I thought I already addressed ES on this forum, why are we still beating that dead horse?B. I have said (in other places) that the delay is scheduling. Client moved from Q2-Q3 because of some re-scheduling server is staying in Q3. If you want to read anything into that, you can see that there is not a huge amount of time difference between them, and the fact that server stays in Q3 should be an indicator that all of the rumors and speculation are massively overplayed.



so if client was moved to be released Q3 and and server was supposed to go Q3 too,and now server is Q4 then maybe we will see BD in Q4 too?



JFs comments do not express or imply that Interlagos' launch has to be before Zambezi, however it did appear that there may be problems with trying to launch both at the same time (my assumption is production capacity). That being said, I assume there is some internal issue either with manufacturing, or OEM negotiation that is holding up Interlagos and they may have decided to push Interlagos to Q4 to make way for Zambezi to launch in Q3.

No point in really reading into it any further than that though.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What exactly does this mean, for those of us who are ignorant, such as myself?


I'm pretty sure that he's meaning its at the stage here (if you compare to normal video games), the chip has "gone gold", they're just producing enough stock to meet the initial surge in demand.


----------



## emersonsc

Another site now claiming "October 2011"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...ch_Lineup.html


----------



## giver660

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


If you are curious about BD then wait for true, official benchmarks before you run to Intel. This seems to be a common thread here, and it is getting _really old_. Read my signature.











Quote:



Originally Posted by *giver660*


I'm finding myself fairly concerned that, assuming this fancy new BD contraption DOES eventually hit the market, it may be a bit underwhelming. Oh well. *I'll be waiting* until October 1st and on October 2nd I'm either going to be the proud new owner of a BD or a 2600k.


This thread is 400+ pages long. If you're concerned about me taking up space, I've been a member since 2006 and this is my 12th post.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *emersonsc*


Another site now claiming "October 2011"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...ch_Lineup.html


please disregard that link, its been brought up before and is unconfirmed. This link is the source that TPU was quoting. Having seen the other news that has come out today from reputable sources, i dont hold any faith in the xbit article. It actually makes the xbit stub look like sloppy journalism by people that arent paying attention.


----------



## xd_1771

low cost 8 cores!!?!?!? Yes!!! Just what I need.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


Tankguy prices are very sweet indeed!!!


well they could be wrong

but they not much more than pIIs which is scary for performance, but how could that be, pIIs are old, with 1 about every $10-20 apart for a 100MHz increase


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


well they could be wrong

but they not much more than pIIs which is scary for performance, but how could that be, pIIs are old, with 1 about every $10-20 apart for a 100MHz increase


What's your point exactly? Who's to say that once BD launches, that the Phenom II prices won't plummet to the ground?

But yes, they COULD be wrong. That's just what Tankguys knows about it right now before they place their order. When they place their order though, they'll know for sure.


----------



## ironman86

all guys here,dont worry that cause as soon as possible is availability at my country(Malaysia) i will bench the fastest 8 core for all







. Mostly i can have my stock from local supplier must faster then other country.Even APU comes early about 3 weeks from international release date.


----------



## StarDestroyer

well if pII didn't disappear or go way down in price that really puts the squeeze on BD price between pII and intels whatever


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


well if pII didn't disappear or go way down in price that really puts the squeeze on BD price between pII and intels whatever


Mark my words on this, Phenom II is going to disappear within I'll say 6 months of BD's release. They'll keep like maybe 1 model from each lineup in stock, just for replacement parts out there in the wild, but they'll be priced about the same as they are now (or higher).

Try to find an Athlon x2 (the older K8 model). Try to find a Core2Duo or Core2Quad. Even the first generation i5 / i7 processors are starting to get harder to find (for LGA 1156).


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

- AMD has always kept their products at a very affordable price

- They've almost never given out any benchmarks

- Their R&D is smaller than intels and if they are going to put it out a product that aims to take a chunk out of intels market then they better make it count

I'm personally thinking we won't be disappointed with Bulldozer. 99.5% sure it won't beat the best of the bets intel has/will offer with IB, but generally will be more than good enough for anything we do.


----------



## Blackops_2

Crew where'd you pick up an FX-8150 in your sig?







I want one


----------



## ryboto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wr3ckin_Cr3w;14853168*
> I don't know what all the fuss is about.
> 
> - AMD has always kept their products at a very affordable price


This is only true post Athlon 64's generation. Back then, the majority of their CPUs were most certainly not all that affordable.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14852856*
> JFs comments do not express or imply that Interlagos' launch has to be before Zambezi, however it did appear that there may be problems with trying to launch both at the same time (my assumption is production capacity). That being said, I assume there is some internal issue either with manufacturing, or OEM negotiation that is holding up Interlagos and they may have decided to push Interlagos to Q4 to make way for Zambezi to launch in Q3.
> 
> No point in really reading into it any further than that though.


Well when he wrote this AMD had said Q2 for client Q3 for server,then came the slide saying 60-90 days till Zambezi release. so if he was stating that both server and client was then to be released Q3,and i cant find the post but i *think* he said something along the lines that due to GF and low volume they would do the server first(lower clocked chips?)
so i still think that since we now know server has launched and we still havent heard about a client launch it's safe to say that BD(Desktop) wont release first,hence why i dont think it makes much sense you saying

"they may have decided to push Interlagos to Q4 to make way for Zambezi to launch in Q3"

but i might be totally wrong on this but i still believe we wont see BD chips for desktop until Oct at the earliest,maybe they will start shipping late sept?


----------



## Chico212

"On track to ship before the end of September and we are tracking to an expected Q4 launch and availability"
https://twitter.com/#!/AMDphil/status/111469723018993664


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;14854035*
> "On track to ship before the end of September and we are tracking to an expected Q4 launch and availability"
> https://twitter.com/#!/AMDphil/status/111469723018993664


Money!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnJoY;14852331*
> Important to note that John is speaking in fiscal year terms, not calender year terms.
> 
> 4th Quarter in fiscal year: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011


Please don't speak for me, I never said that. I speak in calender terms always. And our fiscal calendar is in line with the standard calendar. Not sure where you got the above data from.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> More to come this evening when I get out of all of my meetings.
> 
> Please don't ask me the obvious that you know I cannot answer.


@JF-AMD what time zone are you in?
just curious as to when your meeting will be done?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;14854035*
> "On track to ship before the end of September and we are tracking to an expected Q4 launch and availability"
> https://twitter.com/#!/AMDphil/status/111469723018993664


So Q2 has now become Q4? I wonder if it's going to be LATE Q4 for availability.

SB-E is expected in Q4 as well, and that 3930K is very tempting.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14854856*
> So Q2 has now become Q4? I wonder if it's going to be LATE Q4 for availability.
> 
> SB-E is expected in Q4 as well, and that 3960X is very tempting.


For $1000


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14854890*
> For $1000


I meant 3930K for $589.


----------



## EnJoY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14854709*
> Please don't speak for me, I never said that. I speak in calender terms always. And our fiscal calendar is in line with the standard calendar. Not sure where you got the above data from.


I corrected myself, my apologies. Most companies and their representatives speak in fiscal year terms, so I assumed. And you know what they say about those who assume right?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnJoY;14855017*
> I corrected myself, my apologies. Most companies and their representatives speak in fiscal year terms, so I assumed. And you know what they say about those who assume right?


Most companies have different Fiscal years though. Some fiscal years begin in Sept, some in Oct, Jan, April. But i know you were holding on to a ray of hope.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Just got off work, sorry for this question. "So it is delayed until quarter 4?"

If it is I dont mind. I don't even have the money for it at the moment & I need to replace my CH IV for a CH V.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14855597*
> Just got off work, sorry for this question. "So it is delayed until quarter 4?"
> 
> If it is I dont mind. I don't even have the money for it at the moment & I need to replace my CH IV for a CH V.


You and me both. I'm looking at any possible delay as a good thing.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jcpuser;14849386*
> source :d
> 
> article says that interlagos will launch in q4, *but* zambezi is still slated to be announced this month.
> 
> I also took the liberty of making a news thread.


awwwwwwwwwwww yeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14855773*
> You and me both. I'm looking at any possible delay as a good thing.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;14855597*
> Just got off work, sorry for this question. "So it is delayed until quarter 4?"
> 
> If it is I dont mind. I don't even have the money for it at the moment & I need to replace my CH IV for a CH V.


As long as it is here before BF3


----------



## Hueristic

I'm a bit confused on the TDP Power Cap technology.

Can someone explain how this will effect the Ocing ability for the 125 and 95w chips?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14855820*
> I'm a bit confused on the TDP Power Cap technology.
> 
> Can someone explain how this will effect the Ocing ability for the 125 and 95w chips?


From what I've read/heard... There may not be much of a difference in the end OC speeds, but the 95w will generate less heat in most situations and maybe be pushed higher.

Potential increased headroom for more OCing maybe??


----------



## Impunity

i hate to sound negative because i am really looking forward to BD and i expect great things, but i honestly dont expect there to be a whole lot of overhead available for the first gen BD's to get a lot of OC out of it. Its a new 32nm process and i jsut have a gut feeling that they're going to try to clock it to be competitive with SB-E. considering that all the procs are on the same size die, they may have some kinks to work out with the design. i expect future iterations of BD to be much better though.

/speculation.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14855969*
> i hate to sound negative because i am really looking forward to BD and i expect great things, but i honestly dont expect there to be a whole lot of overhead available for the first gen BD's to get a lot of OC out of it. Its a new 32nm process and i jsut have a gut feeling that they're going to try to clock it to be competitive with SB-E. considering that all the procs are on the same size die, they may have some kinks to work out with the design. i expect future iterations of BD to be much better though.
> 
> /speculation.


And my gut says they will OC well. Weird how those 2 just cancel each other out.


----------



## jck

JF-AMD:

Can you make any comment on the server-oriented Bulldozers yet that you weren't able to state before?

Just curious. Thanks.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14854856*
> SB-E is expected in Q4 as well, and that 3930K is very tempting.


Your wallet, your vote








I´m curious about 6/12 vs 16c/16t battle, should be interesting.Both four channels


----------



## radaja

just curious did everyone get all their submissions in for the
"Operation Scorpious Contest"
that ended yesterday?
i missed a few days but i think i got about 30 or so,i hope im one of the 150
that get a chance to win a FX X8 cpu


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14855820*
> I'm a bit confused on the TDP Power Cap technology.
> 
> Can someone explain how this will effect the Ocing ability for the 125 and 95w chips?


It will not help overclocking, it will help underclocking.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14856028*
> JF-AMD:
> 
> Can you make any comment on the server-oriented Bulldozers yet that you weren't able to state before?
> 
> Just curious. Thanks.


Just that it is shipping for revenue. This is not launch. Details at launch.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14856272*
> It will not help overclocking, it will help underclocking.
> 
> Just that it is shipping for revenue. This is not launch. Details at launch.


Underclocking,like the cool& quiet function?


----------



## catharsis

Hm the tank guys prices scare me. It's significantly cheaper than the sandy i7 which makes me worried about its performance.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14856061*
> Your wallet, your vote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I´m curious about 6/12 vs 16c/16t battle, should be interesting.Both four channels


Don't you mean 6c/12t vs 8c/8t?

Or are you talking about the Xeon battles?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14855792*
> As long as it is here before BF3


Good point Sir.


----------



## radaja

Man those AMD Employees are huge!!!
the guy with glasses probably hits his head all the time
even with the low headroom signs:laugher:










Anyways CONGRATULATIONS JF-AMD and everyone at AMD
on this Great Milestone:cheers:


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14856272*
> It will not help overclocking, it will help underclocking.


The question was "How will it *effect* OCing on the 125 and 95w chips" not if it will help.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14856272*
> Just that it is shipping for revenue. This is not launch. Details at launch.


Ok thanks.


----------



## radaja

Does anyone know how long SFR(ship for revenue) to Launch usually takes?


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14856789*
> Does anyone know how long SFR(ship for revenue) to Launch usually takes?


Wondering the same


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

All of this talk about AMD interlagos today is making me so anxious. I really hope we hear some news regarding Zambezi soon


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14854906*
> I meant 3930K for $589.


You are willing to wait a bit more, and *SPEND MORE* for that cpu rather than buying BD?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14857079*
> You are willing to wait a bit more, and *SPEND MORE* for that cpu rather than buying BD?


you're willing to say that BD will perform on par with SBE? He has a point... if both lines are released in the same quarter BD better be close to or on par with SBE if its just running at SB specs or below I feel like this wait will have been for not.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14856796*
> Wondering the same


Ok, all i could find was John's blog on Feb 22nd 2010 which said Magny-cours was shipping for limited revenue and then i found an article saying MC was launched mar 29th 2010? so maybe around a month turnaround?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14857207*
> you're willing to say that BD will perform on par with SBE? He has a point... if both lines are released in the same quarter BD better be close to or on par with SBE if its just running at SB specs or below I feel like this wait will have been for not.


Well outside the server chips, BD, SB-E, and IB are vaporware right now (outside ES chips). And no benchmarks to support any argument along those lines. Also I'm not saying anything about SB-E, because BD-E is in the works already, so that argument is a moot point for the time being.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14856272*
> Just that it is shipping for revenue. This is not launch. Details at launch.


Ah. I'll PM you after launch then







.

I did not know that Shipping for revenue did not mean "launch".

Learn something new everyday!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14856369*
> Underclocking,like the cool& quiet function?


No, not that. I have a blog on it. It is a limiting feature, probably won't be in client systems
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14856611*
> The question was "How will it *effect* OCing on the 125 and 95w chips" not if it will help.


It won't. Not even sure it is supported on client, it is a server feature.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14856789*
> Does anyone know how long SFR(ship for revenue) to Launch usually takes?


That is normally not discussed. We did this because we needed to communicate the change in launch.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14857373*
> No, not that. I have a blog on it. It is a limiting feature, probably won't be in client systems
> 
> It won't. Not even sure it is supported on client, it is a server feature.
> 
> That is normally not discussed. We did this because we needed to communicate the change in launch.


Just wanted to say thanks for all the help so far John.


----------



## gfiz

So its shipping to distributors and not end users?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14857373*
> It won't. Not even sure it is supported on client, it is a server feature.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14857373*
> That is normally not discussed. We did this because we needed to communicate the change in launch.


I tried:laugher:
Thanks JF,and again Congrats on the milestone today:thumb:


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14833804*
> :O
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQci1cGsqN8&feature=related


She needs to get out more.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14857266*
> Well outside the server chips, BD, SB-E, and IB are vaporware right now (outside ES chips). And no benchmarks to support any argument along those lines. Also I'm not saying anything about SB-E, because BD-E is in the works already, so that argument is a moot point for the time being.


I get what you're saying. I understand it. I'm just wondering if BD is this far behind, and I think we can all agree its definitely behind where it was supposed to be, and its basically the AMD SB. And the same quarter SBE comes out.. and then we have to wait another 4 quarters for BDE. I just feel like we are waiting for AMD to basically release their version of said competitor processor to lower the price point.

I'm mostly just tired of being patient. I've learned patience getting older but this is bordering on a little ridiculous at this point. First I was planning on building a new system in june then late august early sept.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gfiz;14857443*
> So its shipping to distributors and not end users?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


Shipping to OEMs. That is all I can say.


----------



## BigCactus

AMD Ships First "Bulldozer" Processors

First Production-Ready "Interlagos" Processor Revenue Shipments Now Underway

SUNNYVALE, Calif. - Sept. 7, 2011 - Today, AMD (NYSE: AMD) announced revenue shipments of the first processors based on its new x86 "Bulldozer" architecture. Initial production of the world's first 16-core x86 processor, codenamed "Interlagos," began in August and shipping to OEM customers is already underway. Compatible with existing AMD OpteronTM 6100 Series platforms and infrastructure, "Interlagos" is expected to launch and be available in partner systems in the fourth quarter of this year. Many of the initial shipments have been earmarked for large custom supercomputer installations that are now underway.

"This is a monumental moment for the industry as this first 'Bulldozer' core represents the beginning of unprecedented performance scaling for x86 CPUs," said Rick Bergman, senior vice president and general manager, AMD Products Group. "The flexible new 'Bulldozer' architecture will give Web and datacenter customers the scalability they need to handle emerging cloud and virtualisation workloads.

This is old news right:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/industry/2011/09/07/amd-ships-first-bulldozer-processors/1


----------



## Disturbed117

John you must have a rough job answering all these questions. keep up the good work. people also need to chill.


----------



## Benz

I think he understands us, we've been waiting for Bulldozer/Zambezi processors since June, so this impatience was to be expected.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14858361*
> I think he understands us, we've been waiting for Bulldozer/Zambezi processors since June, so this impatience was to be expected.


Impatience is an understatement. Some here seemed to be on the verge of a breakdown of some sort over this. Sad IMO.


----------



## Benz

My point exactly.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

So is it or is it not delayed until Q4? I want to know this because I can buy my last monitor for eyefinity if it is


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14858406*
> Impatience is an understatement. Some here seemed to be on the verge of a breakdown of some sort over this. Sad IMO.


And some here seemed to think it was their job to patrol the The Bulldozer Blog

like it was their very own child,any question that had even the slightest hint of

skepticism towards AMD and they would pounce on the poor poster.

Sad IMO


----------



## 855211

/\








|


----------



## Tweeky

FX-series processors, codenamed Zambezi, have slipped into the fourth quarter.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/amds-bulldozer-processors-now-shipping-in-servers-by-end-of-month.ars


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14858030*
> Shipping to OEMs. That is all I can say.


Is this for server chips only?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14857207*
> you're willing to say that BD will perform on par with SBE? He has a point... if both lines are released in the same quarter BD better be close to or on par with SBE if its just running at SB specs or below I feel like this wait will have been for not.


If you're expecting BD to perform similar to SB-E,you are expecting too much.
A $259(seen on Tankguy's thread) will not perform like a <$589 one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14857373*
> No, not that. I have a blog on it. It is a limiting feature, probably won't be in client systems


It sounds interesting,i'll have to read the blog. Thanks JF!


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14858662*
> FX-series processors, codenamed Zambezi, have slipped into the fourth quarter.
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/amds-bulldozer-processors-now-shipping-in-servers-by-end-of-month.ars


From that article: "amid speculation that the FX-series processors, codenamed Zambezi, have slipped into the fourth quarter."

*It's a rumour.* It even uses the same Xbit source...If it's shipping to OEMs, it'll be out in two or so weeks, a month at most.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brutuz;14858766*
> from that article: "amid speculation that the fx-series processors, codenamed zambezi, have slipped into the fourth quarter."
> 
> *it's a rumour.* it even uses the same xbit source...if it's shipping to oems, it'll be out in two or so weeks, a month at most.


q4
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chico212;14854035*
> "on track to ship before the end of september and we are tracking to an expected q4 launch and availability"
> https://twitter.com/#!/amdphil/status/111469723018993664


----------



## Brutuz

Ah. so there actually is confirmation? Good, at least we actually know.


----------



## emersonsc

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/

"John Fruehe September 7, 2011

Interlagos is a server part, there is no desktop variant. The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4. "

John Fruehe is the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD


----------



## Brutuz

I suppose it isn't actually much of a delay, Q4 could easily be October which would make sense if reviewers have the chip and they're starting production now.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14859006*
> http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/
> 
> "John Fruehe September 7, 2011
> 
> Interlagos is a server part, there is no desktop variant. The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4. "
> 
> John Fruehe is the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD


Ok. I guess Q4 then...

JF you can stand by your comment in the blog, right? Zambezi is officially set for Q4?


----------



## raisethe3

That doesn't make any sense then, because you stated Q2 for release of Bulldozer. If we followed calendar terms like you just stated, then it should've been out by June to now already. *not trying to start an argument*

Now that I am reading here, its postpone to Q4? Not saying that I am trusting rumors around the web or anything. But I am just taking it with a grain of salt and hoping things could clear up a bit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14854709*
> Please don't speak for me, I never said that. I speak in calender terms always. And our fiscal calendar is in line with the standard calendar. Not sure where you got the above data from.


----------



## Brutuz

It originally was Q2 in July iirc, but it got pushed back for "60-90 days" apparently.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14857079*
> You are willing to wait a bit more, and *SPEND MORE* for that cpu rather than buying BD?


If it performs better than BD, a $589 CPU that will outperform the former $1000 CPU. Yeah, I'll bite.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14857266*
> Well outside the server chips, BD, SB-E, and IB are vaporware right now (outside ES chips). And no benchmarks to support any argument along those lines. Also I'm not saying anything about SB-E, because BD-E is in the works already, so that argument is a moot point for the time being.


Actually, there are already ES benchmarks of the 3930K.








http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1110796-wccf-intel-sandy-bridge-e-benchmarks.html

I expect the retail version to perform better, considering a 2500K is about 15% - 20% faster than 760. Not to mention the overclocking headroom will be better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14858361*
> I think he understands us, we've been waiting for Bulldozer/Zambezi processors since June, so this impatience was to be expected.


In reality, we've been waiting all year leading up to the June release date, and some of us have been hearing about Bulldozer since 2007.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14858726*
> If you're expecting BD to perform similar to SB-E,you are expecting too much.
> A $259(seen on Tankguy's thread) will not perform like a <$589 one.
> 
> It sounds interesting,i'll have to read the blog. Thanks JF!


For once, I agree with you.

If BD is still somewhat respectable, I'll still buy it for my 2nd rig.

Right now, the 3930K sound pretty perfect to upgrade my current rig. I didn't buy into the 980X 'cuz I couldn't justify $1000 for a CPU, but $589....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;14859205*
> That doesn't make any sense then, because you stated Q2 for release of Bulldozer. If we followed calendar terms like you just stated, then it should've been out by June to now already. *not trying to start an argument*
> 
> Now that I am reading here, its postpone to Q4? Not saying that I am trusting rumors around the web or anything. But I am just taking it with a grain of salt and hoping things could clear up a bit.


Honestly, the Q2 deadline has come and gone, they didn't meet it.

They then said 60-90 days, which wasn't met.

Q4 sounds more realistic now, as everything is pointing in that direction.

Now, when in Q4 is the question, Oct - Dec. Another 3 month window.









Those tanker guy prices are either really good news, or not so much.

Reason I say that is the 8 core was originally $300+, and now it's barely over $250, I won't make any assumptions yet, until benchies come out.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;14859205*
> That doesn't make any sense then, because you stated Q2 for release of Bulldozer. If we followed calendar terms like you just stated, then it should've been out by June to now already. *not trying to start an argument*
> 
> Now that I am reading here, its postpone to Q4? Not saying that I am trusting rumors around the web or anything. But I am just taking it with a grain of salt and hoping things could clear up a bit.


It has been delayed from Q2 to Q4. And Q4 does not seem to be a rumor. Go read the comments section in the BD blog link a few posts up. Hopefully Q4 is early October (like the Tankguys are current implying) because I am very very near my limit for waiting for Zambezi.

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14859430*
> September 19th was never an official release date, AMD never announced anything, it was from a clip in the Scorpius cartoon, notice in the bottom left corner "ember 19th" that's what started the release date rumor.


Yeah I know.







Need to change my sig now that JF is saying Q4. *sigh* AMD is on my last nerve. BD better be a big surprise in the performance category.


----------



## HK_47

September 19th was never an official release date, AMD never announced anything, it was from a clip in the Scorpius cartoon, notice in the bottom left corner "ember 19th" that's what started the release date rumor.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14859430*
> September 19th was never an official release date, AMD never announced anything, it was from a clip in the Scorpius cartoon, notice in the bottom left corner "ember 19th" that's what started the release date rumor.


Yep, I said that a few pages back.

Besides, it could now be November 19th, December 19th.









The comic only said *mber 19th*

But the rumors somehow took this as truth.

Just like the September 6th NDA lift, that all came from when the contest ended.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14859527*
> so true, all these sites like Xbit, Donanimhaber, there full of ****.
> their information is based off a cartoon, and a sweepstakes contest.
> I Don't get why people are mad, AMD never promised an actual release date.
> just a bunch of shady news sources.


Well, people are *MAD* because *AMD* said that Bulldozer would be released in Q2, and then they gave the 60-90 Day deadline. Both deadlines were not met.

The new deadline is now Q4. Once again, a 90 Day deadline.

You can't blame those news sites, they write stories to get hits, they don't have solid info, all they can do is guess.

AMD has yet to give solid info and meet the *general* deadlines they've given.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

The comic shows Ember so its either sept 19th, nov 19th or dec 19th. Grrr im tired of the wait. Im going to wait till sept 19th then im switching


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14859599*
> The comic shows Ember so its either sept 19th, nov 19th or dec 19th. Grrr im tired of the wait. Im going to wait till sept 19th then im switching


September is still Q3, the earliest you're going to see Zambezi is October.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14859624*
> September is still Q3, the earliest you're going to see Zambezi is October.


Yeah I just got my New AM3+ setup today but still havent setup or opened the mobo or CPU so I may just be doing return. I am not patient enough to sit and wait. Guess I will call newegg in the AM


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14859649*
> Yeah I just got my New AM3+ setup today but still havent setup or opened the mobo or CPU so I may just be doing return. I am not patient enough to sit and wait. Guess I will call newegg in the AM


But wont you have to pay a return fee?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved;14859769*
> But wont you have to pay a return fee?


If the motherboard is un-opened, and he explains that he bought it for Bulldozer which has been delayed again, and he's planning on buying something else from NewEgg, they'll waive the return fee.

I've returned a lot of stuff to NE without the return fee, just gotta talk to the reps, and don't do it automated. Heck, they'll even send him a return shipping label if he asks for it free.










NewEgg is cool like that.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;14859649*
> Yeah I just got my New AM3+ setup today but still havent setup or opened the mobo or CPU so I may just be doing return. I am not patient enough to sit and wait. Guess I will call newegg in the AM


Gl with the switch,however you can't base a release date off of the comic which is proven to be wrong.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14859352*
> If it performs better than BD, a $589 CPU that will outperform the former $1000 CPU. Yeah, I'll bite.
> 
> Actually, there are already ES benchmarks of the 3930K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1110796-wccf-intel-sandy-bridge-e-benchmarks.html
> 
> I expect the retail version to perform better, considering a 2500K is about 15% - 20% faster than 760. Not to mention the overclocking headroom will be better.
> 
> In reality, we've been waiting all year leading up to the June release date, and some of us have been hearing about Bulldozer since 2007.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For once, I agree with you.
> 
> If BD is still somewhat respectable, I'll still buy it for my 2nd rig.
> 
> Right now, the 3930K sound pretty perfect to upgrade my current rig. I didn't buy into the 980X 'cuz I couldn't justify $1000 for a CPU, but $589....
> 
> Honestly, the Q2 deadline has come and gone, they didn't meet it.
> 
> They then said 60-90 days, which wasn't met.
> 
> Q4 sounds more realistic now, as everything is pointing in that direction.
> 
> Now, when in Q4 is the question, Oct - Dec. Another 3 month window.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those tanker guy prices are either really good news, or not so much.
> 
> Reason I say that is the 8 core was originally $300+, and now it's barely over $250, I won't make any assumptions yet, until benchies come out.


A SB-E would be nice to have,but I probably couldn't justify spending $590 on a CPU,nor would I need a SB-E.
If BD does well enough i'm considering one if it drops into my 890GX board,otherwise I can wait a while for more 990FX boards to come out after release,or perhaps another BD revision that may possibly overclock better,
According to Tankguys the FX 8150 8 core is priced at $259.99 ( for those who haven't seen the thread yet) it either means the processor cannot compete,or AMD is willing to take a loss on top of their already huge losses amidst the delays due to performance/yields to regain sales.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;14859918*
> I wish people would realize that when JF is talking about Bulldozer, he's talking about Interlagos server chips and not Zambezi client chips. Speculating about Zambezi chips based on what JF says is just nonsensical.
> 
> Of course, maybe that's just being too optimistic and giving this forum too much credit.


JF-AMD can give us server release dates,it has been going around that AMD releases server products first,then consumer desktop processors soon after,but BD Zambezi might even be shipping for revenue while server is still about to be released.


----------



## a pet rock

I wish people would realize that when JF is talking about Bulldozer, he's talking about Interlagos server chips and not Zambezi client chips. Speculating about Zambezi chips based on what JF says is just nonsensical.

Of course, maybe that's just being too optimistic and giving this forum too much credit.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14859887*
> Gl with the switch,however you can't base a release date off of the comic which is proven to be wrong.
> A SB-E would be nice to have,but I probably couldn't justify spending $590 on a CPU,nor would I need a SB-E.
> If BD does well enough i'm considering one if it drops into my 890GX board,otherwise I can wait a while for another revision that may possibly overclock better.
> According to Tankguys the FX 8150 8 core is priced at $259.99 ( for those who haven't seen the thread yet) it either means the processor cannot compete,or AMD is willing to take a loss on top of their already huge losses amidst the delays due to performance/yields to regain sales.


If all you do is game, then yea, the 6 core SB-E is complete overkill.

I do a lot of rendering and encoding all the time, and to be honest, I barely ever play games. So those extra cores will come in handy.

I don't expect SB-E until January, and personally, I would rather support AMD anyway. But I'm also not going to settle for sub-par performance, and those prices make me weary right now. Only time will tell I guess.


----------



## capitaltpt

Well, we do know that at least 5 people will have retail chips in their hands by October 19th from winning the contest.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;14859948*
> Well, we do know that at least 5 people will have retail chips in their hands by October 19th from winning the contest.


LOL, not necessarily, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver, and they're not going to deliver those CPU's until Bulldozer hits retail shelves.

Hopefully we get some benchmark leaks, but I doubt it.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> AMD is willing to take a loss on top of their already huge losses amidst the delays due to performance/yields to regain sales.


I don't see where there's a loss. The die size is still smaller than the Phenom II x6, and AMD pays per die (not wafer).
I think that can justify the lower cost. As well, with enthusiasts only forming around 9% of the market, I don't expect an FX failure to be a big showstopper for AMD. The APUs have been a great success so far as well as the Radeon HD graphics cards.


----------



## Usario

AMD better hope that "Q4" means "before SB-E". I'm running out of patience.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I don't see where there's a loss. The die size is still smaller than the Phenom II x6, and AMD pays per die (not wafer).
I think that can justify the lower cost. As well, with enthusiasts only forming around 9% of the market, I don't expect an FX failure to be a big showstopper for AMD. The APUs have been a great success so far as well as the Radeon HD graphics cards.


But the 8150 was rumored to be around $320, which would've put it on par with the 2600K.

Bulldozer isn't just serving the small enthusiast market. The 4 - 6 core Bulldozer chips will also end up in OEM machines.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;14858676*
> Is this for server chips only?


That is all I speak for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14859204*
> Ok. I guess Q4 then...
> 
> JF you can stand by your comment in the blog, right? Zambezi is officially set for Q4?


That is what I was told.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14859887*
> JF-AMD can give us server release dates,it has been going around that AMD releases server products first,then consumer desktop processors soon after,but BD Zambezi might even be shipping for revenue while server is still about to be released.


Have you read any of the posts that I have put on this board about actual dates?


----------



## StarDestroyer

when I built my rig last fall my friends were saying 'you know you could wait for BD'

1 year later looks like maybe November, I won't have the cash till then, but I have the upgrade bug


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That is what I was told.


Thanks. Nice to hear it from the horses (so to speak).


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


AMD better hope that "Q4" means "before SB-E". I'm running out of patience.


I hope Q4 means October at the latest. Technically it's _another_ delay as they insisted sometime during Q3 was when Zambezi BD would be out.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I don't see where there's a loss. The die size is still smaller than the Phenom II x6, and AMD pays per die (not wafer).
I think that can justify the lower cost. As well, with enthusiasts only forming around 9% of the market, I don't expect an FX failure to be a big showstopper for AMD. The APUs have been a great success so far as well as the Radeon HD graphics cards.


As a loss I meant the delays which caused many who could no longer wait to switch to Intel.


----------



## Fr0sty

big dilema going on ... should i buy now or wait for potential price drop on mobo's and cpu's and grab a 7k series crossfire once they drop in january ???


----------



## radaja

A pretty interesting read at S/A from Charlie

Quote:



Bulldozer delays come down to a lot of little things, and three big ones.The first one is that there is a *new stepping coming*, SemiAccurate is hearing mid- to late Q1/2012 for the next rev. That rev is said to bump *performance, specifically integer performance, up by quite a bit*, and possibly improve clocks too.


*Bulldozer finally shipped last week
What caused all the slips?*

I wonder how much of this is TRUE?


----------



## Fr0sty

i guess i better wait for Q1 2012


----------



## xd_1771

More clock speeds = higher integer core performance
kind of obvious!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


More clock speeds = higher integer core performance
kind of obvious!











but not every logic section or things run at the same speed as the cpu cores ...

and maybe this new bins allows them to raise the speed of a section that would help integer performance ???

maybe someone with intricate knowledge could correct me on this


----------



## 2010rig

It was pretty obvious that they were having issues, only now we're hearing the truth of what's been going on. The silence, lack of info, spoke volumes.

If BD was yiedling, and performing well, we would've known about it, and those hard deadlines wouldn't have been missed.

By the sounds of it, people are better of waiting 'till Q1 2012, as it will be much improved, with the new stepping. But mid - late Q1, based on history so far, it'll be around March.









Only problem is that SB-E will be out, and AMD will face tougher competition.

I know, it's not the same price segment, but it's still the "Enthusiast Market" some of us can justify spending more, those who can't, still have the 2500K - 2600K as an option. Ivy Bridge is also expected out in March. Yikes.


----------



## StarDestroyer

there's always something better upcoming, but knowing that BD is still delayed and that an improved version is "supposed" to be 3-6months later is all the more annoying


----------



## swindle

Z68 looking pretty good right now.

If I can't get Zambezi in my rig before BF3, i'm out, and out for good.


----------



## Blackops_2

I'll still be buying it. Depending on performance is whether or not i move my 990FX board to my backup rig. If it's around Nehalem performance or better i think i'll be satisfied.. anything less i'll be sad..


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


Z68 looking pretty good right now.

If I can't get Zambezi in my rig before BF3, i'm out, and out for good.


BF3? If the ps3 and xbox can run bf3 I'm sure anything with a quad core can.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


there's always something better upcoming, but knowing that BD is still delayed and that an improved version is "supposed" to be 3-6months later is all the more annoying


It's not delayed, retail chips have been shipped to distributors according to bitech.


----------



## Jared2608

Well, I guess it is heartening to hear that the server chips are shipping for revenue, at least we know something is coming out of the factory. I'm not in any kind of rush to build a new rig, so when BD does launch(hopefully soon), then I can make a choice between Intel and AMD for my next machine!


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


By the sounds of it, people are better of waiting 'till Q1 2012, as it will be much improved, with the new stepping. But mid - late Q1, based on history so far, it'll be around March.










But, judging from AMD's history, who's to say BD itself won't be delayed to Q1, and the Rev to Q2, and stepping in Q3, etc? They didn't manage to meet deadlines three times in a row! If an employee did that in a company, he'd be in the unemployment office for sure.

By the time BD finally comes out, Ivy Bridge-E would already be out! A more approperiate name for the FX8150 would be Duron-XP8150


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


BF3? If the ps3 and xbox can run bf3 I'm sure anything with a quad core can.










Oh god, do I really have to...


----------



## BigCactus

So your saying my x4 840 won't run bf3 well?







It's really more up to the programmers to get these games to run well...it's not the hardware in most cases.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


So your saying my x4 840 won't run bf3 well?







It's really more up to the programmers to get these games to run well...it's not the hardware in most cases.


Yeah because the programmers should TOTALLY be making games that are able to be maxed out on 3-4+ year old hardware.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LesPaulLover*


Stupid question here...but I got my case with mobo / cpu / cooler pre installed.

How do I remove the Asetek liquid cooler from my CPU? I have back plate access and removed that, as well as the clamp ring attached to it.

The cooling unit wont even budge though - don't wanna pull too hard on it.


Why did you ask that in here???


----------



## tw33k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LesPaulLover*


Mostly cuz I was browsing this thread and it's all AMD owners


No wonder this thread gets locked frequently


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Yeah because the programmers should TOTALLY be making games that are able to be maxed out on 3-4+ year old hardware.










Quoted for truth. If you don't understand why someone would like to upgrade their rig and play a beautiful looking game maxed out smoothly, than why are you here?


----------



## Jared2608

I think of PC's the same as I do my fishing tackle. I don't always need something new...but I always like having something new...

P.S sorry mod's for off topic post!


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Actually, there are already ES benchmarks of the 3930K.








http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...enchmarks.html


Um, do you even read posts? I did say ES in there, but you overlooked that one.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Um, do you even read posts? I did say ES in there, but you overlooked that one.










Unlike AMD (ES), Intel (ES) tends to be equal to the actual CPUs(Minus the clock differences if there is any)

Intel is more supported and if the architecture has been around a bit the CPU is already been optimized for

The point in getting an X or K is to get the multiplier unlocked feature regardless

Not overclocked = Not accurate market

(So, if the 980/990X can achieve 4.2-4.5 GHz max and 3930K/3960X can achieve 5.2-5.5 GHz max that shows the improvement much better)


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Well, if Charlie @ SA's on target. It falls in line w/ my guesses earlier. Although, I've seen a few OC'ers that are close to AMD saying that performance isn't an issue when compared to SB. Possible revision to step it up w/ SB-E on the horizon? Meh, who knows?

The only thing that comes to mind in all of this is: Oh, greaaaat... :/ *dripping sarcasm*


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14856468*
> Don't you mean 6c/12t vs 8c/8t?
> 
> Or are you talking about the Xeon battles?


SBE vs Interlagos in general.







(How about this : 6c/12t - 12c/12t)
Second test LGA2011 vs LGA1366

FX´s competitor is LGA1155 (if FX can compete with LGA2011, it´s a bonus)


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14861846*
> there's always something better upcoming, but knowing that BD is still delayed and that an improved version is "supposed" to be 3-6months later is all the more annoying


There are always new steppings of processors every 6-9 months, so anyone could guess that something like that would come. Here's the problem with that thinking. New architectures always bring new fundamental changes. New steppings generally give you another 100MHz or so. We always judge speed bumps for servers as bringing us 3-5% performance increases.

I don't buy the line of thinking that if someone was waiting for bulldozer that they would hold on for the speed bump instead. First because, while you know it is coming, you don't really know when, and secondly, because the performance gain of speed bumps has traditionally been very small. Can you tell the difference between a 3GHz and a 3.1GHz processor? If so you are a better man than I.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14862602*
> But, judging from AMD's history, who's to say BD itself won't be delayed to Q1, and the Rev to Q2, and stepping in Q3, etc? They didn't manage to meet deadlines three times in a row! If an employee did that in a company, he'd be in the unemployment office for sure.
> 
> By the time BD finally comes out, Ivy Bridge-E would already be out! A more approperiate name for the FX8150 would be Duron-XP8150


Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14863145*
> If I was late making super I'd go hungry, but I wouldn't be a year late
> 
> AMD should grill global foundries, how is intel getting its waffers so much better


Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.

SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


----------



## Capwn

Bet when intel delayed them. Everyone at AMD went "whoooooooooooooo, Thank god "
That would have been the nail in the coffin, lol.


----------



## Madclock

Desktop bulldozer CPU's now scheduled to ship Q4 2011 or October 1st - December 31st.

The first week of October a press release will come out stating it will ship in 60 - 90 days. This should now be obtainable as it will allow the new engineers, that they secretly hired away from intel, to fix the production related issues. Launch date around December 31st!

AMD is short for *ALMOST DONE*


----------



## rubicsphere

Everyday a little more of the AMD fanboy within me dies and my 2500K grows on me. Ive lost hope the BD will be revolutionary.


----------



## StarDestroyer

JF I don't really know what I'm talking about, hope a good BD is out by Nov when I'll have cash, its the waiting and unknowns that gets to most people


----------



## emersonsc

I guess I feel, and maybe I can speak for a lot of people on here, that AMD is crapping on its loyal customers. All we want is some information, something to keep our eyes from blinking, something to keep our faces glued to our favorite PC parts store to get these CPUs, and all AMD is being arrogant in expecting its loyals to stick around with out a shred of information regarding this chip that SO many have been patiently waiting for almost 12 months now.

No offense MR J-F, but reading your posts, you also seem to carry the same arrogant attitude I feel AMD is giving off. Your posts are cold and at many times condescending towards us posters.

I dont think its off base for AMDs loyal customers to expect information at this point. This is deadline #3 that AMD has failed to meet, and its customers are expecting some answers, some truth, and some proof of these CPUs they have been waiting for. Many people have set aside money patiently waiting for this CPU... I dont think its "sad" as some posters on here have said. It's their money. They have every right to be upset that they continue to be pulled around by a corporation that is acting like every other corporation these days. They are arrogant in thinking that their loyal customers will stick around while being treated like they dont matter.

You can call that last comment harsh or way off base, but how can you claim that? Customers have been begging for information now since the first deadline failed to be met. AMD continues to turn its back keeping its mouth shut. How do you expect people to stick around with NO information regarding release, or even performance.

Performance is the KEY issue here AMD. I myself wouldnt mind waiting another 6 months if there was proof these BDs were an INTEL SLAYER. But for all I know its a 3 legged mut racing against a greyhound...

I think at this point this launch will be a failure in the sense that sales will be low at least for the first Q its out, if not longer.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14864777*
> No offense MR J-F, but reading your posts, you also seem to carry the same arrogant attitude I feel AMD is giving off. Your posts are cold and at many times condescending towards us posters.


That would be because for every poster who actually knows what they're talking about, you have twenty posters going "LOL ITS DELAYED AND GONNA SUCK, YOU SUCK CAUSE YOU WORK AT AMD!!! ITS GOT HYPERTHREADING 2.0!!!" etc, most people would be like that.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14865125*
> That would be because for every poster who actually knows what they're talking about, you have twenty posters going "LOL ITS DELAYED AND GONNA SUCK, YOU SUCK CAUSE YOU WORK AT AMD!!! ITS GOT HYPERTHREADING 2.0!!!" etc, most people would be like that.


True, but at the same time, you look at the responses and think, why do i do business with this company again, there CS kind of sucks.

Now with my rant, i hope you didnt get that i think because its delayed it sucks. All I'm saying is that because of the delays and total lack of performance support, non of us have ZERO idea what we are even waiting for. Its nothing but guess, rumors, and speculation and that is starting to make a lot of loyals and fanboys get nervous and question why they are even waiting at this point. I dont think its off base for people to threaten AMD that if they dont get some info out soon, they are switching. THey cant expect people to keep this money in their hands with either no rig, or a very outdated rig that is holding them pack from either enjoyment and entertainment, or productivity. Eventually people are going to say F-it and go intel. While intels new chips aren out either, they have chips that blow AMDs latest and greatest out of the water...


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> There are always new steppings of processors every 6-9 months, so anyone could guess that something like that would come. Here's the problem with that thinking. New architectures always bring new fundamental changes. New steppings generally give you another 100MHz or so. We always judge speed bumps for servers as bringing us 3-5% performance increases.
> 
> I don't buy the line of thinking that if someone was waiting for bulldozer that they would hold on for the speed bump instead. First because, while you know it is coming, you don't really know when, and secondly, because the performance gain of speed bumps has traditionally been very small. Can you tell the difference between a 3GHz and a 3.1GHz processor? If so you are a better man than I.
> 
> Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
> 
> Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.
> 
> SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


Unfortunatly JF.... The prob in my opinion here is that intel can afford to be late... THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION....have you seen the benchmarks of what a 210 dollar 4 core 2500k does to AMDS best and brightest????...Not to mention the 2600k???? Mind you these are intels midrange chips to boot. I think the whole point is AMD needs to have somthing that actually competes with Intel on perfomance. And that would hopfully be BD, but what do i know? Im just an pathetic enthusiest thats like 5% of cpu sales??? right?







JK.... I really want to like AMD, heck even look at my sig... But I think you just lost another to the "dark"side....


----------



## Blackops_2

While the multiple delays are annoying it is what it is. Complaining about it doesn't help. And fanboyism so to speak is just insane. Price/performance with the money you have at the time is more than adequate rather it be intel or AMD. I do love AMD because i started out on AMD but i'm not going to hesitate to buy intel if the price/performance is good.

Even if bulldozer were to be revolutionary whats the percent of us enthusiast that will actually use it to it's full potential? For me i play games and like to overclock, my needs for a speedy system are just driven by satisfaction of having a good performing CPU, nothing more. People need to calm down give JF some slack, and let everything unfold, otherwise go build a new system with the best hardware you can afford now and be satisfied for the time being.

My 2 cents.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14865170*
> True, but at the same time, you look at the responses and think, why do i do business with this company again, there CS kind of sucks.
> 
> Now with my rant, i hope you didnt get that i think because its delayed it sucks. All I'm saying is that because of the delays and total lack of performance support, non of us have ZERO idea what we are even waiting for. Its nothing but guess, rumors, and speculation and that is starting to make a lot of loyals and fanboys get nervous and question why they are even waiting at this point. I dont think its off base for people to threaten AMD that if they dont get some info out soon, they are switching. THey cant expect people to keep this money in their hands with either no rig, or a very outdated rig that is holding them pack from either enjoyment and entertainment, or productivity. Eventually people are going to say F-it and go intel. While intels new chips aren out either, they have chips that blow AMDs latest and greatest out of the water...


Your last two posts have been spot on the mark. I've been an AMD loyalist for almost a decade now and this has just really upset me to the point that I priced out the 2600k build last night. Sad thing is it was almost the same price as the bulldozer build I had been pricing. (With the 320 added for the BD FX 8150 price)

Now this is supposed to be AMD's high end processor and its on par, price wise, (I know we dont KNOW it is but I have a bad wary feeling this is phenom all over again) with what we consider mid range right now. (We all know the 990FX etc are high end intels) I want performance, however, I wasn't waiting for the pure performance I was waiting because I am(or was) an AMD loyalist. Although, I expected it to be on par with or better than the SB line. Its 9 months behind SB for release so it SHOULD be better. The Price point makes me think it will be ON PAR with it. Thats unacceptable in a competition driven market.

Here is Where JF went wrong. I posted this in my original post in this thread. He talked down to the customer. We might be 5% of the market. But from what I have seen people that DONT know much about hardware and performance ask those of us that DO know. If your company has crapped on us why would we recommend that our buddies/relatives/peers buy your OEM products? That 5% of consumers could cost them a lot more of the market share than they can afford to lose.

All I wanted was some information. I did not message him I did not post in his threads I just simply came here looking for information in Feb. I had lurked for years and years here and finally decided to join. The reason I've begun posting so rigorously now is because I'm pretty pissed off and I think I have a right to be.


----------



## bru_05

I think it's pretty cool that JF hops on here throws in some info and clarifies some of the nonsense that has been posted.

With that being said...is waiting another month that big of a deal? If you have waited this long and haven't cracked and bought a 2600k (very nice proc) then why not spend the time to manage the cables in your case. Get everything all nice and neat, so when BD does come you can just drop it in and run with it.

I would've snatched a 2600k by now if I couldn't wait for it. But, if AMD is coming out with a new proc and it is pretty much even with Intel at the price point I'm looking at I will def go AMD. Call it fanboyism/loyalty/whatever, I've always been an AMD guy. I just don't see the big deal about waiting another month if you've been waiting this long anyway. Sure it's unfortunate but in the end it's just a computer part...


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14866475*
> Your last two posts have been spot on the mark. I've been an AMD loyalist for almost a decade now and this has just really upset me to the point that I priced out the 2600k build last night. Sad thing is it was almost the same price as the bulldozer build I had been pricing. (With the 320 added for the BD FX 8150 price)
> 
> Now this is supposed to be AMD's high end processor and its on par, price wise, (I know we dont KNOW it is but I have a bad wary feeling this is phenom all over again) with what we consider mid range right now. (We all know the 990FX etc are high end intels) I want performance, however, I wasn't waiting for the pure performance I was waiting because I am(or was) an AMD loyalist. Although, I expected it to be on par with or better than the SB line. Its 9 months behind SB for release so it SHOULD be better. The Price point makes me think it will be ON PAR with it. Thats unacceptable in a competition driven market.
> 
> Here is Where JF went wrong. I posted this in my original post in this thread. He talked down to the customer. We might be 5% of the market. But from what I have seen people that DONT know much about hardware and performance ask those of us that DO know. If your company has crapped on us why would we recommend that our buddies/relatives/peers buy your OEM products? That 5% of consumers could cost them a lot more of the market share than they can afford to lose.
> 
> All I wanted was some information. I did not message him I did not post in his threads I just simply came here looking for information in Feb. I had lurked for years and years here and finally decided to join. The reason I've begun posting so rigorously now is because I'm pretty pissed off and I think I have a right to be.


I halfway agree to this. I've never asked JF any questions directly and I know he gets asked the same questions (however miniscule, repetitive, and annoying they are) and based from the few responses he gives...it does look like he is dissing some of us at times. Again, I think it's more of him being annoyed and I won't hold it against AMD because afterall he is just one employee there and I'm and AMD fan because of their products, not their spokesperson on a forum.

We're all mad and annoyed by the constant delays as is JF..I think we all just need to calm down. I'm sure there is good reason for this delay like the others. I'm just hoping that AMD realizes they really can't afford to keep doing this.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14865170*
> True, but at the same time, you look at the responses and think, why do i do business with this company again, there CS kind of sucks.
> 
> Now with my rant, i hope you didnt get that i think because its delayed it sucks. All I'm saying is that because of the delays and total lack of performance support, non of us have ZERO idea what we are even waiting for. Its nothing but guess, rumors, and speculation and that is starting to make a lot of loyals and fanboys get nervous and question why they are even waiting at this point. I dont think its off base for people to threaten AMD that if they dont get some info out soon, they are switching. THey cant expect people to keep this money in their hands with either no rig, or a very outdated rig that is holding them pack from either enjoyment and entertainment, or productivity. Eventually people are going to say F-it and go intel. While intels new chips aren out either, they have chips that blow AMDs latest and greatest out of the water...


in fairness to JF, he int here representing AMD, and even if he were, he'd only be representing Interlagos, not Zambezi. I think hes been 'cold' only out of being cautious. remember Zambezi isnt his product line, for him to comment on it would be out of line from a work perspective, and could potentially get him into trouble, as people have a hard time accurately quoting him in context as it is.

i completely understand the frustration, and to a large extent i share it, i have a rig for BF3 sitting, waiting and complete save for the CPU and mobo, just waiting for *some information* about Zambezi. i have to have *something* in there hopefully before the beta starts, i'd rather it be AMD. i'll even go get a 955 or a 1090T as a placeholder if i know that BD will be worth the investment. I dont want to be locked into a board and set of RAM if it wont be competitive.

That said, AMD, in my experience, has issues communicating with end users, but they think they're farther up in the supply chain than that so they dont feel its necessary to communicate information to what they feel is the 'general public'. Companies that deal directly with consumers generally have some sort of community manager to provide a steady stream of information, this keeps the community at ease and keeps them from jumping ship or just making stuff up.

i realize that the enthusiast market is small for AMD but it does have a ripple effect. They're currently looked at as the Daewoo of CPUs and the need to be the Ferrari, the only way thats gonna happen is if the enthusiasts drool over it and create brand recognition. i just wish AMD would give us something to drool over.


----------



## j0zef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14864777*
> I guess I feel, and maybe I can speak for a lot of people on here, that AMD is crapping on its loyal customers. All we want is some information, something to keep our eyes from blinking, something to keep our faces glued to our favorite PC parts store to get these CPUs, and all AMD is being arrogant in expecting its loyals to stick around with out a shred of information regarding this chip that SO many have been patiently waiting for almost 12 months now.
> 
> No offense MR J-F, but reading your posts, you also seem to carry the same arrogant attitude I feel AMD is giving off. Your posts are cold and at many times condescending towards us posters.
> 
> I dont think its off base for AMDs loyal customers to expect information at this point. This is deadline #3 that AMD has failed to meet, and its customers are expecting some answers, some truth, and some proof of these CPUs they have been waiting for. Many people have set aside money patiently waiting for this CPU... I dont think its "sad" as some posters on here have said. It's their money. They have every right to be upset that they continue to be pulled around by a corporation that is acting like every other corporation these days. They are arrogant in thinking that their loyal customers will stick around while being treated like they dont matter.
> 
> You can call that last comment harsh or way off base, but how can you claim that? Customers have been begging for information now since the first deadline failed to be met. AMD continues to turn its back keeping its mouth shut. How do you expect people to stick around with NO information regarding release, or even performance.
> 
> Performance is the KEY issue here AMD. I myself wouldnt mind waiting another 6 months if there was proof these BDs were an INTEL SLAYER. But for all I know its a 3 legged mut racing against a greyhound...
> 
> I think at this point this launch will be a failure in the sense that sales will be low at least for the first Q its out, if not longer.


Great post - hit the nail on the head. We don't know when and we don't know what. It's infuriating. I'm sure the company has their reasons to do both, and from an overall sales perspective, it's not a big deal. But if they were actually trying to cater to the enthusiast market, they need to give us something. A lot of people already switched, and a lot more will be switching soon.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14866475*
> Your last two posts have been spot on the mark. I've been an AMD loyalist for almost a decade now and this has just really upset me to the point that I priced out the 2600k build last night. Sad thing is it was almost the same price as the bulldozer build I had been pricing. (With the 320 added for the BD FX 8150 price)
> 
> Now this is supposed to be AMD's high end processor and its on par, price wise, (I know we dont KNOW it is but I have a bad wary feeling this is phenom all over again) with what we consider mid range right now. (We all know the 990FX etc are high end intels) I want performance, however, I wasn't waiting for the pure performance I was waiting because I am(or was) an AMD loyalist. Although, I expected it to be on par with or better than the SB line. Its 9 months behind SB for release so it SHOULD be better. The Price point makes me think it will be ON PAR with it. Thats unacceptable in a competition driven market.
> 
> Here is Where JF went wrong. I posted this in my original post in this thread. He talked down to the customer. We might be 5% of the market. But from what I have seen people that DONT know much about hardware and performance ask those of us that DO know. If your company has crapped on us why would we recommend that our buddies/relatives/peers buy your OEM products? That 5% of consumers could cost them a lot more of the market share than they can afford to lose.
> 
> All I wanted was some information. I did not message him I did not post in his threads I just simply came here looking for information in Feb. I had lurked for years and years here and finally decided to join. The reason I've begun posting so rigorously now is because I'm pretty pissed off and I think I have a right to be.


One thing i learned in all my years in customer service is that one negative comment travels further than 10 positive comments. People are most likely to talk about and share a negative experience than a positive experience.

I believe that that 5% is still 5%. This 5% is the group that people who know nothing go to and ask their opinion on what computer they should buy. Hell, I just bought new computers for my dads shop, all AMD powered computers. I did the ordering and configuring because he knew nothing about computers. I could have gone Intel, as both configurations were priced the same, but I went AMD because I know his needs and I have a lot of years experience with AMD.

As far as your comment about these being another Phenom... I agree 100%. I waited. And Waited. And waited some more when the Phenoms came out, and again when the first batch of Phenom II x4s came out. And was let down each time. I think we all have the fear, or expectation, that this will be the same. Once again, if AMD came out and was honest and said hey this is what you are waiting for, well... i'd wait. I've always expected my AMD to be outperformed by Intel. But we honest with your customers and dont build up false hopes on a product if you already know its inferior prior to its launch.


----------



## jck

All I know is:

A) We're lucky John continues to stay here and comment
B) I am amazed by his patience

I think I've said it before: some of the people here remind me of the press corps at political briefings...they ask the same thing 50 different ways to get someone official to word it a way they can spin it how they want.

I'm just glad he's here. At least we have someone who can give official information when allowed, or point us to an official source. A lot of sites don't have that. We're lucky as hell.

Thanks again, John.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capwn;14864012*
> Bet when intel delayed them. Everyone at AMD went "whoooooooooooooo, Thank god "
> That would have been the nail in the coffin, lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madclock;14864300*
> Desktop bulldozer CPU's now scheduled to ship Q4 2011 or October 1st - December 31st.
> 
> The first week of October a press release will come out stating it will ship in 60 - 90 days. This should now be obtainable as it will allow the new engineers, that they secretly hired away from intel, to fix the production related issues. Launch date around December 31st!
> 
> AMD is short for *ALMOST DONE*


Fanboy much?

JF still waiting on an answer to my question. Before I can pre-order (If I decide to) I will need an answer.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14866699*
> All I know is:
> 
> A) We're lucky John continues to stay here and comment
> B) I am amazed by his patience
> 
> I think I've said it before: some of the people here remind me of the press corps at political briefings...they ask the same thing 50 different ways to get someone official to word it a way they can spin it how they want.
> 
> I'm just glad he's here. At least we have someone who can give official information when allowed, or point us to an official source. A lot of sites don't have that. We're lucky as hell.
> 
> Thanks again, John.


I agree that we are very luck to have an OEM rep comment on here. And for that I personally am thankful for John. How ever, constructive criticism is and will always be a part of his, and any job really for that matter, and should be welcomed, not shunned.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14866994*
> Fanboy much?
> 
> JF still waiting on an answer to my question. Before I can pre-order (If I decide to) I will need an answer.


Dont think being demanding will get you what you want. John is one person, and as he has said a billion times, his department deals with servers, not desktop.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14867051*
> I agree that we are very luck to have an OEM rep comment on here. And for that I personally am thankful for John. How ever, *constructive criticism is and will always be a part of his, and any job really for that matter*, and should be welcomed, not shunned.


one caveat, coming here to post on OCN is not part of his job, hes doing this because he wants to help. i'm betting he recognizes how poorly AMD communicates with end users and is trying to mitigate it as best as possible


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14867051*
> I agree that we are very luck to have an OEM rep comment on here. And for that I personally am thankful for John. How ever, constructive criticism is and will always be a part of his, and any job really for that matter, and should be welcomed, not shunned..


I think John would agree that constructive criticism is welcome. Anything that helps to improve AMD makes the business better and that's good. I don't think anyone is shunning constructive criticism.

Problem is, I have not seen a lot of criticism that's been constructive. That is mainly because to be constructive (give criticism that is applicable to improvement based on actual knowledge of the topic), you have to be "in the know".

And since John is the only one truly in that position (or at least, the only one here who's made it public that he's a representative of AMD), he's the only one who could (IMHO) knowledgably criticize anything that's going with respect to process from a business, production, design, or press aspect...and the faults with that process or its direction.

Anyone can go "you need to release chips faster" or "your prices need to be lower" or "your CPUs need to go faster". That's all obvious...and been said more times and in more ways than we all know...and it's part of tech...to progress and improve.

I've liked the discussions that have happened on things like why Bulldozer was designed the way it was (the module concept) and its benefits and weaknesses. I love tech, and have since I was a boy.

I just hate the harping so negatively. It's just as easy to type. "Is there any new news yet on the release?" as it is "Why are you guys at AMD taking so long!"

Anyways... /rant (sorry John)


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14867051*
> ...Dont think being demanding will get you what you want. John is one person, and as he has said a billion times, his department deals with servers, not desktop.


Thanks for the advice son. And you obviously didn't understand my question with your response here.























He probably either missed the post in this flood of worthless banter or forgot.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Wow... the past 3 pages where very uninformative wise and so full of hate toward John...the guy is doing this in his own time and that is how you repay him talking slag about him... John thanks for coming here for clearing and settings things right you where very informative every time and i didn't felt like you where cold with your responses only cautious which i understand given your state. Thanks for staying here with us and don't mind the trols and fanboys they come with the thread


----------



## kzone75

So.. did anyone start a JF-AMD fan club yet..?


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;14867464*
> So.. did anyone start a JF-AMD fan club yet..?


I wouldn't do it without his express consent...but, that's just me.

He's a public figure for a major company. He might frown upon it.

Anyways...anyone getting an Interlagos for their organization?


----------



## black96ws6

This article was just posted over at Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4749/amd-ships-bulldozer-for-servers-desktops-to-follow-in-q4

Quote:


> With AMD saying that Zambezi will ship in September but launch in Q4 it's safe to say that rumors of a September launch date aren't true. Q4 encompasses October, November and December. My money is on an early-to-mid Q4 launch.


----------



## jck

From that article:

_'AMD mentioned that it will be shipping Zambezi processors before the end of September and is "tracking to an expected Q4 launch and availability for those parts".'_

Question is: shipping to whom? OEM system builders? Parts (r)etailers?

I would assume that they'd go to Dell, Acer/Gateway, et al., first. But if they are shipping Zambezi to everyone at end Q3 FY2011, then I can't see why someone like NewEgg wouldn't put them out right away...so long as they're not under a contractual restriction.

I'm hoping for week 2 or 3 of October, **if** that piece of information is accurate. Again...HOPE.

I really wanna build me a Bulldozer gaming rig.


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
> 
> Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.
> 
> SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


Like the rest of AMD, you seem to have trouble with the truth. SB-E IS in production right now, and is scheduled to launch November 15th. http://vr-zone.com/articles/report-intel-sandy-bridge-e-on-november-15th/13522.html http://www.techpowerup.com/151759/November-15-Launch-Date-for-Sandy-Bridge-E.html

That's right on time, according to your information.

Ivy was never scheduled to launch this year. (Again, problems with the truth..) It was scheduled for Q1 next year. It's going to be delivered Q1 next year.

Ivy being delayed.. well.. if your company didn't have any competition whatsoever at the moment.. your company might want to put off such incremental updates as well. Milk the current architecture at the current node (which must be near perfect yields by now) for as long as possible. When enjoying record profits, there's no rush to release new chips. However, it was scheduled for Q1 2012, and is still on track for Q1 2012.









Also.. Intel was VERY upfront about Ivy's delay. They didn't say "Q2" right up until the end of Q2, they didn't say "60-90 days from now" and then.. say "Oops, Q4 instead." They don't -lie- to their customers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14866595*
> in fairness to JF, he int here representing AMD, and even if he were, he'd only be representing Interlagos, not Zambezi.


This just isn't true. He's on OCN as a "Hardware REP", therefore, when he's posting here, whether he likes it or not, he IS representing his company. The fact he's in the marketing department makes it even more undeniable that he IS representing his company on this site.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity;14868096*
> This just isn't true. He's on OCN as a "Hardware REP", therefore, when he's posting here, whether he likes it or not, he IS representing his company. The fact he's in the marketing department makes it even more undeniable that he IS representing his company on this site.


Um...actually, you are reading too much into the title "Hardware REP".

It has been stated by John, as well as AMD's own webpage denoting his job title, that he is involved with *servers products*. Yes, he represents the company...in *that* aspect. And, the site even says this:

"John Fruehe is the Director of Product Marketing for Server/Workstation products at AMD. His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD's positions, strategies or opinions."

So, his job is what it is. He works for AMD. But, he may or may not be expressing AMD's positions, strategies, or opinions.

i.e.- What he says, outside of his official, AMD-approved postings, may or may not speak for the company.

Again, information from AMD...when in doubt, go to the source.


----------



## OverShocked

JF, can you tell us why the CEO said 60-90 days and now that has changed???

You say you cant get around rumors in your FAQ thread, but IIRC your CEO said this. Not a rumor.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity;14868096*
> 
> This just isn't true. He's on OCN as a "Hardware REP", therefore, when he's posting here, whether he likes it or not, he IS representing his company. The fact he's in the marketing department makes it even more undeniable that he IS representing his company on this site.


So because hes also a man, does that make him a spokesperson for all men?


----------



## OverShocked

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14868406*
> So because hes also a man, does that make him a spokesperson for all men?


No, but he represents what a man would think in a particular situation.


----------



## jck

All I know is, he's a great guy for being here. He doesn't have to be.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverShocked;14868392*
> JF, can you tell us why the CEO said 60-90 days and now that has changed???
> 
> You say you cant get around rumors in your FAQ thread, but IIRC your CEO said this. Not a rumor.


I'd have to note that their interim CEO (Thomas Seifert- normally Chief Financial Officer) said that. They just appointed their current CEO, Rory Read (former CEO, IBM's Lenovo division) on August 25th. Since which, things have apparently changed. I'd imagine many a thing has changed w/ the new boss, as is normal.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Everyone needs to lay off JF-AMD. He is a good guy for even coming here and offering what little information he can. AND ALL OF THE NEW PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW/REALIZE *JF-AMD COMES HERE IN HIS FREE TIME. HE IS NOT HERE TO BE A VOICE FOR AMD HE IS HERE TO OFFER US THE BREAD CRUMBS OF INFORMATION THAT HIS COMPANY WILL ALLOW HIM TO.*

So everyone needs to stop with the JF-AMD hate.

If I was John I would be on vacation right now to stay clear of the uproar from the Zambezi Delay.

IMO The mods should lock this thread to give the haters time to relax.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14868625*
> Everyone needs to lay off JF-AMD. He is a good guy for even coming here and offering what little information he can. AND ALL OF THE NEW PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW/REALIZE *JEFF COMES HERE IN HIS FREE TIME. HE IS NOT HERE TO BE A VOICE FOR AMD HE IS HERE TO OFFER US THE BREAD CRUMBS OF INFORMATION THAT HIS COMPANY WILL ALLOW HIM TO.*
> 
> So everyone needs to stop with the JF-AMD hate.
> 
> If I was John I would be on vacation right now to stay clear of the uproar from the Zambezi Delay.
> 
> IMO The mods should lock this thread to give the haters time to relax.


Jeff?
















I don't know if I agree about the lock. But, I agree about JF-AMD/John. He's a champ for being here.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14868663*
> Jeff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I agree about the lock. But, I agree about JF-AMD/John. He's a champ for being here.


Agreed on all points.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity;14868096*
> Like the rest of AMD, you seem to have trouble with the truth. SB-E IS in production right now, and is scheduled to launch November 15th. http://vr-zone.com/articles/report-intel-sandy-bridge-e-on-november-15th/13522.html http://www.techpowerup.com/151759/November-15-Launch-Date-for-Sandy-Bridge-E.html
> 
> That's right on time, according to your information.
> 
> *Ivy was never scheduled to launch this year.* (Again, problems with the truth..) It was scheduled for Q1 next year. It's going to be delivered Q1 next year.


Look at previous roadmaps, many things changed..

















Quote:


> Intel postpones the Haswell processor to 2014
> http://www.h-online.com/newsticker/news/item/Processor-Whispers-About-benchmarks-and-sore-losers-1272039.html


You are telling that John has "problems with truth". (i.e. liar)
But I´m confident that you have problems with longterm memory.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> There are always new steppings of processors every 6-9 months, so anyone could guess that something like that would come. Here's the problem with that thinking. New architectures always bring new fundamental changes. New steppings generally give you another 100MHz or so. We always judge speed bumps for servers as bringing us 3-5% performance increases.
> 
> I don't buy the line of thinking that if someone was waiting for bulldozer that they would hold on for the speed bump instead. First because, while you know it is coming, you don't really know when, and secondly, because the performance gain of speed bumps has traditionally been very small. Can you tell the difference between a 3GHz and a 3.1GHz processor? If so you are a better man than I.


Well, would you buy this?
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/07/bulldozer-finally-shipped-last-week/
Quote:


> The first one is that there is a new stepping coming, SemiAccurate is hearing mid- to late Q1/2012 for the next rev. That rev is said to bump performance, *specifically integer performance, up by quite a bit*, and possibly improve clocks too. Either way, it looks like that stepping is the one to keep an eye out for. It isn't a Barcelona type fiasco, but it isn't an HD4870 launch either.
> 
> Next on the list is yield, or lack thereof. The same problems that affect Llano affect Bulldozer, and we took a look at those earlier. The short version is that GloFo has problems with the 32nm SHP process, but they are still best in class. No other foundry can do a 32nm HKMG + strain process, so they are currently the only choice. AMD pays only per good die, so they are financially insulated from the yields.
> 
> More problematic for AMD is that they can't get enough chips.
> 
> Bulldozer is a larger die, about 50% larger than Llano, so yield should go down noticeably. *Llano's yield, to use the technical term, sucks*, so Bulldozer should be at least as bad. Time will tell, but the constant slipping by a week or two here or there is a pretty good sign that this is the case.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
> 
> Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.
> 
> SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


Ivy is scheduled for Q1 2012 one year after SB released, and it's launching March 2012, which happens to be Q1 2012. This is in line with their road maps. If we got IB in Q4 of this year, that would've been a major bonus, but none of us really expected the die shrink to come within a year after the new architecture was introduced.

Is it realistic to have 32nm Sandy Bridge come out in 2011, and 22nm die shrink in the same year?

Just look at your company, they've yet to release 32nm Bulldozer.

Now that you're pointing fingers at your competitors.

What happened to Bulldozer launching in 2009 at 45nm?

What happened to Bulldozer launching in Q2 of this year?

What happened to the 60-90 Day deadline given June 1st?

Why is Bulldozer now launching in Q4?

In the last 3 years alone, Intel has had Nehalem, the die shrink Gulftown, earlier this year Sandy Bridge came out, SB-E will be out in Q4. Ivy Bridge will be out Q1 2012.

What does AMD have?

The last time AMD came out with a new architecture was in 2003, and ever since they've been rehashing the same architecture.

Does AMD have anything that remotely competes with a 2500K or 2600K?

Let's find out...

Here's AMD's best, vs Intel's Mid-Range. ( 4th best )
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=203

Considering you're a server guy, I don't understand your arrogance, let's look at the server market share.
Quote:


> In the PC server/workstation processor segment, *Intel finished with 94.5% market share*, a gain of 0.6%, while AMD lost the same volume and only had 5.5% share in the critical segment of the market.


Now, knowing that, who needs to get their act together and meet their deadlines, Intel or AMD? It's obvious it's the latter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;14865304*
> Unfortunatly JF.... The prob in my opinion here is that intel can afford to be late... THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION....have you seen the benchmarks of what a 210 dollar 4 core 2500k does to AMDS best and brightest????...Not to mention the 2600k???? Mind you these are intels midrange chips to boot. I think the whole point is AMD needs to have somthing that actually competes with Intel on perfomance. And that would hopfully be BD, but what do i know? Im just an pathetic enthusiest thats like 5% of cpu sales??? right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JK.... I really want to like AMD, heck even look at my sig... But I think you just lost another to the "dark"side....


Exactly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14868735*
> Look at previous roadmaps, many things changed..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are telling that John has "problems with truth". (i.e. liar)
> But I´m confident that you have problems with longterm memory.


Hmmm. You're using a roadmap from 2009.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080422104006_AMD_s_Next_Gen_Micro_Architecture_in_Development_Bulldozer_Samples_Due_in_2009_AMD.html

Need I go on? What I wrote is pretty self explanatory.

Has Bulldozer even launched yet?

Intel has been on 32nm for a couple years now.

They've introduced new architectures and die shrinks over the years.

AMD on the other hand has rehashed the same architecture for how many years now?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity;14868096*
> Like the rest of AMD, you seem to have trouble with the truth. SB-E IS in production right now, and is scheduled to launch November 15th. http://vr-zone.com/articles/report-intel-sandy-bridge-e-on-november-15th/13522.html http://www.techpowerup.com/151759/November-15-Launch-Date-for-Sandy-Bridge-E.html
> 
> That's right on time, according to your information.
> 
> Ivy was never scheduled to launch this year. (Again, problems with the truth..) It was scheduled for Q1 next year. It's going to be delivered Q1 next year.
> 
> Ivy being delayed.. well.. if your company didn't have any competition whatsoever at the moment.. your company might want to put off such incremental updates as well. Milk the current architecture at the current node (which must be near perfect yields by now) for as long as possible. When enjoying record profits, there's no rush to release new chips. However, it was scheduled for Q1 2012, and is still on track for Q1 2012.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also.. Intel was VERY upfront about Ivy's delay. They didn't say "Q2" right up until the end of Q2, they didn't say "60-90 days from now" and then.. say "Oops, Q4 instead." They don't -lie- to their customers.
> 
> This just isn't true. He's on OCN as a "Hardware REP", therefore, when he's posting here, whether he likes it or not, he IS representing his company. The fact he's in the marketing department makes it even more undeniable that he IS representing his company on this site.


Intel doesn't lie to consumers? How is that 10 Ghz Netburst treating you?

The fact of the matter is that sometimes things happen that can't be controlled. If you can't deal with that you don't belong here.

Judging by your sig rig and the blind devotion to Intel that you've shown in your post, I'm wondering what you're doing in a Bulldozer thread to begin with.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14868663*
> Jeff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't know if I agree about the lock.* But, I agree about JF-AMD/John. He's a champ for being here.


I retract that previous statement that's bolded and underlined.


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
> 
> Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.
> 
> SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


I would argue that part of the reason Intel is also having delays is due to the lack of pressure from AMD. If BD had been released in Q2, then perhaps Intel would be more desperate to release SB-E and IB, or be forced to drive down SB prices to the point of lost revenue.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember many Intel delays back at the turn of the century, when K7s and K8s were whooping Pentiums left and right. I'd imagine Conroe was released as quickly as possible to fight off the Athlon duals, even though back then Intel was quite big and profitable.

I realize AMD has a business to run, but we enthusiasts don't like to be completely left behind and ignored either. And for a lot of us, patience is wearing thin after so many years of waiting, and so much anticipation this year, quarter by quarter.


----------



## OverShocked

The point is that there are no answers and no getting an official release date.

I bought some AMD stock in anticipation of bulldozers launch in the time frame that they promised. But yet again, i have been lied to.

Look, these arnt rumors- and im not taking it out on John. However this is getting ridiculous. Weve been told over and over again, "just wait a few more months".

Why do you keep doing this to us? If you knew in Q1 that it was going to take another 9 months to finish you should have quoted us on 9 months. Dont keep making promises that you cant live up to.

And telling us that this happens all the time in the processor world is not true. Every CPU that has been delayed never gets delayed this close to a launch. You can quote examples of intel not meeting launch, however I challenge you to find me an example of a time where Intel delayed something 3 times promising that it would be out in such a short time.

I was just in the process of selling some of my hardware gettign ready for BD. Then i find out that yet again it is delayed.

This is crazy AMD.


----------



## OverShocked

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14868889*
> I realize AMD has a business to run, but we enthusiasts don't like to be completely left behind and ignored either. And for a lot of us, patience is wearing thin after so many years of waiting, and so much anticipation this year, quarter by quarter.


In case you forgot AMD, us enthusiasts are often the ones who convince our friends and family to either build/buy now or wait.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14868746*
> Hmmm. You're using a roadmap from 2009.
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080422104006_AMD_s_Next_Gen_Micro_Architecture_in_Development_Bulldozer_Samples_Due_in_2009_AMD.html
> Need I go on? What I wrote is pretty self explanatory.
> Has Bulldozer even launched yet?
> Intel has been on 32nm for a couple years now.
> They've introduced new architectures and die shrinks over the years.
> AMD on the other hand has rehashed the same architecture for how many years now?


You missed my point.

Actually, roadmaps are changing all the time, no exception for intel ,AMD or Nvidia


----------



## Badness

Komodo replaces Zambezi, correct? Komodo also uses socket FM2, correct?


----------



## Optimus_Prime

I do not give a damn about intel products because they had outrageous prices on the high end market they swapped sockets for the processors on every upgrade they lied and bribed big companies to get their position on the market and they did many other nasty things to get their supremacy as leading company at microprocessors NOW STOP showing intel products road maps and other nonreleated info on the BULLDOZER AMD THREAD. We have internet if we want to find rodmaps and other "oh new shiny that and new shiny this intel way " we go and see and compare. Besides the intel core .....( forgot the name and number) was about 3 years ago like 1500$ so yeah intel can kiss my bankrupted ass so to quote Cave Johnson







.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;14868968*
> I do not give a damn about intel products because they had outrageous prices on the high end market they swapped sockets for the processors on every upgrade they lied and bribed big companies to get their position on the market and they did many other nasty things to get their supremacy as leading company at microprocessors NOW STOP showing intel products road maps and other nonreleated info on the BULLDOZER AMD THREAD. We have internet if we want to find rodmaps and other "oh new shiny that and new shiny this intel way " we go and see and compare. Besides the intel core .....( forgot the name and number) was about 3 years ago like 1500$ so yeah intel can kiss my bankrupted ass so to quote Cave Johnson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Rant about Intel. Complain about off-topic posts about Intel. Continue to rant about Intel.

???


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14868938*
> You missed my point.
> 
> Actually, roadmaps are changing all the time, no exception for intel ,AMD or Nvidia


Oh I got your point, that's why I pointed you to the release of Bulldozer on 45nm which also changed, actually, never happened.









My point really was the fact that JF-AMD is pointing fingers at Intel for the 22NM die shrink being delayed a quarter, when Bulldozer hasn't even launched and has faced YEARS of delays.

Hey pot, meet kettle.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;14868968*
> I do not give a damn about intel products because they had outrageous prices on the high end market they swapped sockets for the processors on every upgrade they lied and bribed big companies to get their position on the market and they did many other nasty things to get their supremacy as leading company at microprocessors NOW STOP showing intel products road maps and other nonreleated info on the BULLDOZER AMD THREAD. We have internet if we want to find rodmaps and other "oh new shiny that and new shiny this intel way " we go and see and compare. Besides the intel core .....( forgot the name and number) was about 3 years ago like 1500$ so yeah intel can kiss my bankrupted ass so to quote Cave Johnson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Perhaps you should try and follow the thread to figure out who or why Intel was brought up just now.

Let me refresh your memory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14863804*
> Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.
> 
> Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.
> 
> SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14868663*
> Jeff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I agree about the lock. But, I agree about JF-AMD/John. He's a champ for being here.


LOL my mistake. I always do that when I type JF-AMD I read it as Jeff AMD







I Fixed it


----------



## giver660

Everything else aside here - I'm still thinking about the price. The FX8150 is $259.99 on the pre-order. _tankguys_ is really upfront that he can't offer the lowest prices so I assume $245-255 on NE. The current best AMD has to offer is $189.99 and Intel's i5-2500k is 219.99, both NE prices. I think we would all agree that the 2500k is $30 more of a processor, especially taking overclocking into account.

Is the FX8150 really going to be $25-35 more of a CPU than the 2500k? I think if AMD wants to sell any they'd better be. So somewhere between all this information/speculation, I think you might be reassured on BD's performance capabilities because AMD has usually been a value-based sort of company, at least of late. I don't think they'd release it for that much more than the 2500k unless it were worth it (assumption I'm making)

_disclaimer_: yes I realize prices change which is particularly relevant with no specified release date yet for BD, making this just a theory.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14868761*
> Intel doesn't lie to consumers? How is that 10 Ghz Netburst treating you?
> 
> The fact of the matter is that sometimes things happen that can't be controlled. If you can't deal with that you don't belong here.
> 
> Judging by your sig rig and the blind devotion to Intel that you've shown in your post, I'm wondering what you're doing in a Bulldozer thread to begin with.


There are actually a LOT of people talking about the BDs who have intel builds...

So by your logic, only those who currently have AMD machines are allowed to talk in this thread...?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giver660;14869392*
> Everything else aside here - I'm still thinking about the price. The FX8150 is $259.99 on the pre-order. _tankguys_ is really upfront that he can't offer the lowest prices so I assume $245-255 on NE. The current best AMD has to offer is $189.99 and Intel's i5-2500k is 219.99, both NE prices. I think we would all agree that the 2500k is $30 more of a processor, especially taking overclocking into account.
> 
> Is the FX8150 really going to be $25-35 more of a CPU than the 2500k? I think if AMD wants to sell any they'd better be. So somewhere between all this information/speculation, I think you might be reassured on BD's performance capabilities because AMD has usually been a value-based sort of company, at least of late. I don't think they'd release it for that much more than the 2500k unless it were worth it (assumption I'm making)
> 
> _disclaimer_: yes I realize prices change which is particularly relevant with no specified release date yet for BD, making this just a theory.


I dont think price will reflect performance. The price is going to reflect production cost plus room for profit.


----------



## giver660

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14869802*
> I dont think price will reflect performance. The price is going to reflect production cost plus room for profit.


This is a free market, wouldn't you assume that if the FX8150 ends up being $30 more than the 2500k and still doesn't outperform it, that it would be a pretty hard sell for AMD?

I've heard that Intel will be reducing prices soon, say the i7-2600k ends up being in the same price range as they're planning to debut the FX8150 at. Prices have to reflect market value.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14869802*
> There are actually a LOT of people talking about the BDs who have intel builds...
> 
> So by your logic, only those who currently have AMD machines are allowed to talk in this thread...?


No, only people who are actually interested in buying the chip should post here.

That way they wouldn't have to lock the thread every other day to clean up posts like his. Capiche?


----------



## Blackops_2

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QLn9rR2rn5oJ:www.sisoftware.net/?d=qa&f=cpu_amd_bulldozer&l=en&a=+sisoftware+bulldozer&cd=2&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-a

Didn't know if anyone has posted this. Here are some more "supposed benchmarks" unless they're real idk. A member on EOCF posted this, figured i'd share it.


----------



## Electroneng

The delay again of bulldozer is disappointing but at least all the FX line will be overclockable. Intel, with Sandy bridge, has 2 CPU's that can substantially overclock! This is boring! Charge me $10 more for a k model 2100! What is the big deal?

If AMD will continue to allow substantial overclocking on all there CPU's, then they are a win for me.

I have two Sandy Bridge Rigs and three AMD rigs and we need both these competitors in the marketplace.


----------



## xd_1771

*Non-flammatory discussion please. Discussion about deleted posts is also not allowed.
-xd*


----------



## Obakemono

*To all of you here that want to buy Intel xxxx cpu because you cannot wait:*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all of you here that are attacking John (aka JF-AMD):*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all of you who just want to argue about pointless speculation and tripe:*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all here that show up and troll:*
Stop talking and go away.

All I want is this thread to be informative, helpful and polite, unlike what it has degraded into now. We are *ADULTS*, not children, so we *ALL* need to change our attitudes, start being polite to each other and restrain ourselves when we have the urge to type something useless, pointless or a waste of time.
If you don't like my post, then report it, _don't reply to it_.


----------



## Domino

What sort of benefits could we see with bulldozer? I'm sure in comparison to the Phenom II we will see performance increases all around, no doubt about it, but what about the competition?

Would multitasking rival that of Intel or surpass it? HT is inefficient when it is loaded to a tee, but if it still surpasses bulldozer, why would having more cores still be beneficial? I don't see how "more cores" is beneficial when a certain task or tasks reach the same point at the same time or on the current standings, reach there slower with more cores. Overall it is the way to go, but I'm wondering where the actual "gains" will be against it's competition in terms of more cores.

What are the actual aims of bulldozer against its competition? Is it to simply perform well, not exceed your competition in raw performance, and or perform better in the aspects of more in a given wattage rather then more in less time? You have mentioned that if AMD was to design a chip that outperformed Intel, we could very well not afford it (I apologize if I mistook the quote), what do you mean by this in terms of bulldozer's performance? Could we expect that bulldozer will perform well but not take the crown from Intel?

The way I see it, I think the server/client market should focus on 2 tasks: performance and affordability, which also go hand in hand. Just my opinion on such, and I think most consumers think the same, is that they want performance to the point that things seem smooth, work faster, etc., but they also want to be able to afford it, either by the hardware price or at the end of the month with the bill.

Performance wise, for client use anyways, should be that of revolving around how nature decides our limitation. Although the exact frame rate require by games depends on person to person, have 60, 75, 85, 120, whatever it is, should be a goal of how well the CPU should perform. Likewise, in other tasks, such as opening your browser, e-mail, word, compiling, etc., things that most schools or the average folk require from their PCs, won't bother if the difference is a few seconds. I think this should be a goal for the client production of bulldozer anyways.

Likewise people want to be able to afford. You can't really have both, but if you allow performance to be govern by more natural limitations to what folk use the PC for, I'm sure you could grab the best of both worlds. I think Llano has accomplished such in it's given market. Sure the CPU itself is no where near that of what Intel has, but as an overall platform, it does more with less power, does light gaming, etc.; things that a laptop is used for and performs like it should in a price bracket.

I don't mind if the CPU only performs as expected for a couple of years or so, but if it accomplishes its goal and only costs a couple hundred bucks every 2 years, then I'm fine with that.

I know things are radically different for server loads and I can only give my opinion on computation intensive tasks, so I guess my input on such matters holds very little value. But performance with reasonable power consumption is a prime aim. If I have millions of calculations to do, I don't want to wait a week and save myself a few hundred bucks at the end of the year, I would rather accomplish much more in a week and spend that extra few hundred. And who knows, I might actually save in completing more in less and having the system be turned off for the remaining of the week.

Anyways, I'm just ranting. New school and haven't had internet for the past few days with a keyboard.

So aside from my rant, I'm just wondering what are the aims of bulldozer against it's competition?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


*To all of you here that want to buy Intel xxxx cpu because you cannot wait:*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all of you here that are attacking John (aka JF-AMD):*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all of you who just want to argue about pointless speculation and tripe:*
Stop talking and go away.
*To all here that show up and troll:*
Stop talking and go away.

All I want is this thread to be informative, helpful and polite, unlike what it has degraded into now. We are *ADULTS*, not children, so we *ALL* need to change our attitudes, start being polite to each other and restrain ourselves when we have the urge to type something useless, pointless or a waste of time.
If you don't like my post, then report it, _don't reply to it_.





























































Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Impatience is an understatement. Some here seemed to be on the verge of a breakdown of some sort over this. Sad IMO.










WOW


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Quoted for truth. If you don't understand why someone would like to upgrade their rig and play a beautiful looking game maxed out smoothly, than why are you here?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Yeah because the programmers should TOTALLY be making games that are able to be maxed out on 3-4+ year old hardware.











The point is you could have the best hardware in the world, but a game could still run like crap. I don't think anyone here is spending $300 on a cpu to play games to be fair.


----------



## radaja

the operation scorpious contest period has changed,now it ends Oct 12th
instead of the old date of yesterday









Quote:



4. Entry Period: The Contest begins July 21, 2011 at 12:01am Eastern Time ("EDT") and ends October 12, 2011 at 11:59 pm EDT (the "Entry Period"). Entries that are submitted before or after the Entry Period will be disqualified. Sponsor's computer will be the official timekeeping device for the Contest.


AMD FX Giveaway: Official Rules 
so keep on entering each day until then


----------



## nub

Interesting point about those 'leaked benchmarks' was made on XS.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=#post4942995


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14871077*
> *To all of you here that want to buy Intel xxxx cpu because you cannot wait:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all of you here that are attacking John (aka JF-AMD):*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all of you who just want to argue about pointless speculation and tripe:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all here that show up and troll:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> 
> All I want is this thread to be informative, helpful and polite, unlike what it has degraded into now. We are *ADULTS*, not children, so we *ALL* need to change our attitudes, start being polite to each other and restrain ourselves when we have the urge to type something useless, pointless or a waste of time.
> If you don't like my post, then report it, _don't reply to it_.


The thread has been exhausted speculation and false rumors. What are these delay rumors when we know the new amd cpus have shipped to distributors?

Just wait until September 26 -


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14868746*
> Now that you're pointing fingers at your competitors.
> 
> Considering you're a server guy, I don't understand your arrogance, let's look at the server market share.
> 
> Now, knowing that, who needs to get their act together and meet their deadlines, Intel or AMD? It's obvious it's the latter.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14869199*
> My point really was the fact that JF-AMD is pointing fingers at Intel for the 22NM die shrink being delayed a quarter, when Bulldozer hasn't even launched and has faced YEARS of delays.
> 
> Hey pot, meet kettle.
> 
> Perhaps you should try and follow the thread to figure out who or why Intel was brought up just now.
> 
> Let me refresh your memory.


You totally missed the boat and took liberties interpreting what he was saying. He wasn't pointing fingers. His point was that delays are vendor agnostic. They happen. Roadmaps aren't always followed to a T. Roadmaps *change*. New roadmaps come out to accommodate! And it's his speculation that things don't always go smoothly. It's not hypocritical of him to point that out; he wasn't judging anyone. So I'm also not sure how you interpreted that as arrogance; it was stated matter-of-factly. Regardless his character is not even relevant to the topic. Looks like you were just trying to bait him.


----------



## BigCactus

There really is no need for this thread. What purpose does this thread serve? By the time any real information is released to this thread, the cpu will be released and reviews will be out giving all the details. Just have to wait...but O M G I need 8 cores to play mw3...


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14871127*
> http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-benchmarks-released-by-sisoftware-were-fake-34895/
> 
> *IT'S FAKE!!!*
> 
> I may also mention:
> 
> This is in the comments page. The Sandy is running at 3.6Ghz, an 800Mhz unfair advantage in multicore tests.
> 
> This is the FX-8100 - the low end 2.8Ghz model - if true, and not the 8170. High end FX CPUs will feature up to 3.6Ghz base clock speed and (assuming 1Ghz turbo correct) up to 4.6Ghz in turbo core mode.


in case anyone missed it on the other thread...


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nub;14871643*
> in case anyone missed it on the other thread...


JF is very valuable to AMD.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14871417*
> The point is you could have the best hardware in the world, but a game could still run like crap. *I don't think anyone here is spending $300 on a cpu to play games to be fair.*


you may not *think* that, but some of us take our games *VERY* seriously.

I've invested over $1000 this year alone in Headphones, Controllers, and Displays. $300 for a CPU is worth it if it yields performance gains that are consistent with the price. All in the name of









and i'm not even one of those guys willing to drop major coin for Quad SLI like some guys i know


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14871698*
> you may not *think* that, but some of us take our games *VERY* seriously.
> 
> I've invested over $1000 this year alone in Headphones, Controllers, and Displays. $300 for a CPU is worth it if it yields performance gains that are consistent with the price. All in the name of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and i'm not even one of those guys willing to drop major coin for Quad SLI like some guys i know


Even for "gamers" in general. People are more then willing to pay 300 bucks in order to do gaming. Hence why there is still a market in selling Dell $2'000 rigs.


----------



## Badness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Badness;14868962*
> Komodo replaces Zambezi, correct? Komodo also uses socket FM2, correct?


Anybody?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14871698*
> you may not *think* that, but some of us take our games *VERY* seriously.
> 
> I've invested over $1000 this year alone in Headphones, Controllers, and Displays. *$300 for a CPU is worth it if it yields performance gains that are consistent with the price.* All in the name of


I know but since we are on the subject of games.....performance gains going from a quad core to an 8-core processor? Which console port do you think requires an 8-core bulldozer cpu? Let's get real. There is no real advantage going from a 4-core to an 8-core cpu for current games...not unless the game is simply poorly optimized. And I'm not going to buy an 8-core cpu because a game is a crappy port.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14871698*
> you may not *think* that, but some of us take our games *VERY* seriously.
> 
> I've invested over $1000 this year alone in Headphones, Controllers, and Displays. $300 for a CPU is worth it if it yields performance gains that are consistent with the price. All in the name of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and i'm not even one of those guys willing to drop major coin for Quad SLI like some guys i know


Ive dropped 200 dollars on headphones (2 pairs) if you count BOTH monitors Ive dropped 1200 on monitors (A 37' vizio and the 47' 120hz vizio i just picked up today).... Im looking at dropping 1400 to 1800 on my next box..... I drop about 2500 bucks a year on computers... Yes I am buying a BD for gaming and some nighttime sleeping folding.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14871888*
> I know but since we are on the subject of games.....performance gains going from a quad core to an 8-core processor? Which console port do you think requires an 8-core bulldozer cpu? Let's get real. There is no real advantage going from a 4-core to an 8-core cpu for current games...not unless the game is simply poorly optimized. And I'm not going to buy an 8-core cpu because a game is a crappy port.


You obviously havent played Eve online or BFBC2... both which push my 6 core right now.. 4 instances of EVE and the processor starts hitting 100% and I get lag.. and Yes I can run 4 instances effectively.. BFBC2 runs about 40% of all 6 cores... and I play this stuff in windowed mode so I can do OTHER things while I'm doing that... So yes some of us do have a need for more processing power.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14872073*
> Ive dropped 200 dollars on headphones (2 pairs) if you count BOTH monitors Ive dropped 1200 on monitors (A 37' vizio and the 47' 120hz vizio i just picked up today).... Im looking at dropping 1400 to 1800 on my next box..... I drop about 2500 bucks a year on computers... Yes I am buying a BD for gaming and some nighttime sleeping folding.
> 
> You obviously havent played Eve online or BFBC2... both which push my 6 core right now.. 4 instances of EVE and the processor starts hitting 100% and I get lag.. and Yes I can run 4 instances effectively.. BFBC2 runs about 40% of all 6 cores... and I play this stuff in windowed mode so I can do OTHER things while I'm doing that... So yes some of us do have a need for more processing power.


Agree completely I am buying an 8 Core for gaming. Could care less about the cost. I think even Battlefield 3 was using 8 cores evenly


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln*


You totally missed the boat and took liberties interpreting what he was saying. He wasn't pointing fingers. His point was that delays are vendor agnostic. They happen. Roadmaps aren't always followed to a T. Roadmaps *change*. New roadmaps come out to accommodate! And it's his speculation that things don't always go smoothly. It's not hypocritical of him to point that out; he wasn't judging anyone. So I'm also not sure how you interpreted that as arrogance; it was stated matter-of-factly. Regardless his character is not even relevant to the topic. Looks like you were just trying to bait him.


How was I trying to bait him, when all I did was respond to what he wrote?

I've stood up for JF-AMD here many times.

But my response was my opinion, based on my interpretation of what he wrote, which is:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Considering the fact that IB was supposed to launch soon and it has been quietly slipped to next year, I am surprised you used that in your argument. It has been delayed until (at least) the end of Q1.

Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.

SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


He's pointing out how Intel is delayed, etc, yet, every time we ask him about Bulldozer delays, all we get is "I don't comment on client"

Like I said, if you can dish it, you can take it. I suggest you read back my response, here:
http://www.overclock.net/14868746-post4492.html

To compare Ivy Bridge delays to Bulldozer delays, those comparisons are not even in the same league. Ivy Bridge is 22nm, while BD was meant to be 45nm in 2009, and BD 32nm was due out several times this year, and it's been delayed again.

Besides, Intel already OWNS the top performance crown, who is in need of getting their act together more, Intel or AMD?

I'm rooting for AMD to bounce back, else I would not spend any time here. But man, don't point out how Intel is delayed and blah blah blah, when your own products haven't even hit the market and have been delayed NUMEROUS times. That's what I found arrogant.

If I misunderstood, I'm sorry to JF-AMD, but that was my interpretation of what he wrote.


----------



## nub

I am wondering about the fake benchmarks that have since been pulled off of the sisoftware website. I do not understand why they would publish blatantly faked 'benchmarks'. What can they possibly gain by doing that? Page hits? I wonder if any legal action can be taken against them by AMD.


----------



## kabj06

I will be getting a quad core and unlocking more cores from it, or a 1090T when BD comes out so that I can get the lower prices.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity*


Like the rest of AMD, you seem to have trouble with the truth. SB-E IS in production right now, and is scheduled to launch November 15th.


Perhaps SB-E is, but I that is not what I said.

Quote:



Well, SB-EP and IB have both been delayed, so I am not sure I would be saying that at Intel production is running at prime right now.

SB-EP was supposed to be in production right now and launching by November. IB was supposed to be in production in Q4. Both are late Q1, best case scenario.


I said SB-*EP* which is the 2P server product. Go back and look at my post. Saying that I (and the rest of my company) has trouble with the truth is really a cheap shot that is not needed. I have never lied. I tell you what I know at the time (that I am allowed to say). If your ticket say 5:30 on it but your flight doesn't leave until 7:30, did someone lie to you? No. At the time the ticket was issued they expected it to leave at that time.

As to people pointing out my comment on Intel slipping thier launch, if you look back to those posts, I was replying to this:

Quote:



AMD should grill global foundries, how is intel getting its waffers so much better



Whether we like it or not, product delays are a part of life, no company is immune to them.


----------



## Massimo

Hi John

First I would like to thank you for even posting on a site that is not based on your server produce.

Second I wanted to ask what I can possbably expect from a server cpu in rendering applications as my work maybe perchasing a new PC for me I might have them hold off for a BD build instead of intel?

Third now that server chips are being shipped what would you expect the time frame be before reviewers will get there hands on some.

Finally to everyone else on here AMD has always said that BD will be %50 faster then Phenom so take a Phenom benchmark times it by %50 and there you go that is about how fast BD will be. If you compare 1100T to 2600k BD works out to be on par depending on benchmark.

Thanks John


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Massimo*


Finally to everyone else on here AMD has always said that BD will be %50 faster then Phenom so take a Phenom benchmark times it by %50 and there you go that is about how fast BD will be. If you compare 1100T to 2600k BD works out to be on par depending on benchmark.

Thanks John


yikes, you may not want to pass that off as fact, and I suggest you re-read and understand what was said.

I won't get into it further.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Massimo*


Hi John

First I would like to thank you for even posting on a site that is not based on your server produce.

Second I wanted to ask what I can possbably expect from a server cpu in rendering applications as my work maybe perchasing a new PC for me I might have them hold off for a BD build instead of intel?

Third now that server chips are being shipped what would you expect the time frame be before reviewers will get there hands on some.

Finally to everyone else on here *AMD has always said that BD will be %50 faster then Phenom* so take a Phenom benchmark times it by %50 and there you go that is about how fast BD will be. If you compare 1100T to 2600k BD works out to be on par depending on benchmark.

Thanks John


AMD has no recent official statements about Zambezi compared to the 1100T. There is an old slide (last year) comparing BD, 1100T, and the i7 950, BUT that slide very old and may be fake.

There have been 50% more throughput and 35% more performance type statements made from AMD, but those refer to Interlagos compared to Magny Cours.


----------



## Massimo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


yikes, you may not want to pass that off as fact, and I suggest you re-read and understand what was said.

I won't get into it further.


I am not passing it off as fact just that is the only performance confirmation I have seen from AMD and it gives a idea to the expected performance. If AMD deleyed BD because it was not performing as expected and the expected was 50% faster then phonem. Then I would have say that chances are high that BD will be on par with SB


----------



## Badness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Badness*


Anybody?


Seriously guys, I'm getting conflicting answers from searching, will somebody actually answer this for me?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Badness*


Seriously guys, I'm getting conflicting answers from searching, will somebody actually answer this for me?


Sorry man, nobody can. We really don't know yet.

The original plans were for it to be on FM2, but a lot of rumors are going around saying that it will be on AM3+, so that's why nobody is answering.


----------



## Massimo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


AMD has no recent official statements about Zambezi compared to the 1100T. There is an old slide (last year) comparing BD, 1100T, and the i7 950, BUT that slide very old and may be fake.

There have been 50% more throughput and 35% more performance type statements made from AMD, but those refer to Interlagos compared to Magny Cours.


If that is so I have been miss informed then. Non the less it is going to be faster then my 1090t so I will be happy. The only reason I would go SB is for rendering other then that phenom handles everything just fine.


----------



## Badness

Hmmm, well I'll assume wikipedia is right for now then...
"Desktop Performance market (Corona platform[27]): Zambezi will be replaced by Komodo (up to 10 cores). Komodo will feature Turbo Core 3.0 under the newer Socket FM2 format."


----------



## Massimo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Badness*


Hmmm, well I'll assume wikipedia is right for now then...
"Desktop Performance market (Corona platform[27]): Zambezi will be replaced by Komodo (up to 10 cores). Komodo will feature Turbo Core 3.0 under the newer Socket FM2 format."


Here is a AMD road map










Looks as though there will be a new socket the name well apparntly FM something. It would be unlikely that they say there will be a new socket then not produce a new socket unlike the BD and AM3 situation.

Non the lless like Damn_Smooth said no one really knows so we can only speculate. Due to this though I may wait for Komodo and FM? insead of getting a BD.


----------



## 2010rig

Why does everything at AMD revolve around rumors? *sigh*

AMD Cancels Next-Gen Komodo Processor, Corona Platform in Favour of New Chips.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...New_Chips.html

Take this with the usual grain of salt, etc.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Why does everything at AMD revolve around rumors? *sigh*

AMD Cancels Next-Gen Komodo Processor, Corona Platform in Favour of New Chips.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...New_Chips.html

Take this with the usual grain of salt, etc.


Xbit: I'll get a bag of salt for that one...

As for rumors: I think you'll find that unless AMD says or confirms a statement that a chip is being shipped, that it's released, or schedule has slipped...it's ALL rumor/conjecture/hypothesis originating from a source other than AMD.

AMD is the only one that can positively confirm or deny their business and its status.

BTW, John's Bulldozer (Interlagos) is evidently shipped. That's been confirmed by AMD. It's not a rumor.

Here is a fact from AMD

The revolving can stop.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


How was I trying to bait him, when all I did was respond to what he wrote?

I've stood up for JF-AMD here many times.

But my response was my opinion, based on my interpretation of what he wrote, which is:

He's pointing out how Intel is delayed, etc, yet, every time we ask him about Bulldozer delays, all we get is "I don't comment on client"

Like I said, if you can dish it, you can take it. I suggest you read back my response, here:
http://www.overclock.net/14868746-post4492.html

To compare Ivy Bridge delays to Bulldozer delays, those comparisons are not even in the same league. Ivy Bridge is 22nm, while BD was meant to be 45nm in 2009, and BD 32nm was due out several times this year, and it's been delayed again.

Besides, Intel already OWNS the top performance crown, who is in need of getting their act together more, Intel or AMD?

I'm rooting for AMD to bounce back, else I would not spend any time here. But man, don't point out how Intel is delayed and blah blah blah, when your own products haven't even hit the market and have been delayed NUMEROUS times. That's what I found arrogant.

If I misunderstood, I'm sorry to JF-AMD, but that was my interpretation of what he wrote.


point? What are you trying to prove, that AMD had to delay a product like everyone else?

Get out. You are just creating a bad environment over some egocentric cause that is pulling this thread down.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *domino;14873541*
> point? What are you trying to prove, that amd had to delay a product like everyone else?
> 
> Get out. You are just creating a bad environment over some egocentric cause that is pulling this thread down.


+1

Having worked at a Fortune 500 corporation, I can tell you one thing of certainty:

Project timeline slips happen.

Sometimes they are minute, and sometimes they require reworking the timeline by months.

But, they are hardly ever predictable...especially when you're in an R&D project to prove feasibility of a tech product.

John is awesome for telling us what he can. I thank him again.


----------



## catharsis

Delay doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is all the leaked benchmarks have been pretty poor. So us waiting for a chip that won't even be up to par with the competition is leaving a very sour taste in my mouth. Granted nothing is known for sure. But I find it quite odd there hasn't been any "good" benchmark leaks for Zambezi.


----------



## Badness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14874246*
> Delay doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is all the leaked benchmarks have been pretty poor. So us waiting for a chip that won't even be up to par with the competition is leaving a very sour taste in my mouth. Granted nothing is known for sure. But I find it quite odd there hasn't been any "good" benchmark leaks for Zambezi.


Meh. Maybe it'll be super cheap because of it. I mean heck, price is why MOST people have AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14873541*
> point? What are you trying to prove, that AMD had to delay a product like everyone else?
> 
> Get out. You are just creating a bad environment over some egocentric cause that is pulling this thread down.


Point. When companies like Intel delay a product, we know month's ahead of time, they don't dance around the issue and act like everything is fine. ( Notice, 2 different links, I could add more if you want them )

We also know when their products are to be released, and of course, they also launch new architectures like clockwork. AMD on the other hand has been delaying Bulldozer since 2009, they don't give accurate deadlines, and fail to meet them, and never really acknowledge what causes the delays. When we ask when BD is being released we get talked down on, and are expected not to question anything.

We already have a release date for SB-E

Get out?

Here's what I have to say to that...










If he's going to point out how Intel's products are delayed, is he not able to hear that his own products are delayed?

It's the truth, it's not like I'm making up rumors.

If I said something that was in-appropriate the mods would've deleted my posts.

I know the truth hurts, try not to take it personal.


----------



## Madmanden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14871493*
> the operation scorpious contest period has changed,now it ends Oct 12th
> instead of the old date of yesterday
> 
> AMD FX Giveaway: Official Rules
> so keep on entering each day until then:thumb:


I guess that's the closest we'll get to a confirmation about a delay from AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14874714*
> I entered once ages ago, how are you entering over and over?


I haven't read the contest rules in a while, but I believe it said that you could enter once per day.


----------



## Naturecannon

Tankguys FX8150 x8 @ $259.99?

I think I paid around $300 for my 1090T the first day it was launched!!

From a mathematical standpoint........ 2600k price VS. BD price VS. current 1090T price. What does that give us for BD performance numbers if compared percentage/price wise??


----------



## Tatakai All

Don't know if this has been posted already but have you guys seen this? http://www.overclock.net/tankguys-pre-sales/1111697-amd-bulldozer-pre-order-info.html


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14875174*
> Tankguys FX8150 x8 @ $259.99?
> 
> I think I paid around $300 for my 1090T the first day it was launched!!
> 
> From a mathematical standpoint........ 2600k price VS. BD price VS. current 1090T price. What does that give us for BD performance numbers if compared percentage/price wise??


The Price / Performance equations aren't always linear though. Just like a 990X is not 3 times faster than a 2600K.

Here's the Price Percentage Math.

2600K - $315 = 100%
FX8150 - $260 = 82.5%
2500K - $215 = 68.2% (In POV RAY & 7Zip the 2600K is 30% faster than the 2500K, everything else they're pretty close)
1100T - $190 = 60%


----------



## Jared2608

Perhaps the chips are powerful, but AMD has decided to try and win market share back by undercutting Intel? They wouldn't be the first company to try something similar. I'm just saying that it's possible...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;14875293*
> Perhaps the chips are powerful, but AMD has decided to try and win market share back by undercutting Intel? They wouldn't be the first company to try something similar. I'm just saying that it's possible...


It's possible, quote me if you like, it's highly unlikely.

The 1090T launched at $300, and had to price drop a lot in order to compete, it couldn't outperform Nehalem overall and lost value over time. Especially after Sandy Bridge was introduced.

Now it's going for $169, since it can't outperform a 2500K. Obviously Sandy Bridge is a newer architecture, but the fact remains, these are both available for purchase *for the past 8 months*, since, you know, Bulldozer is delayed. So this is the only thing to compare it to.

If AMD had a chip faster than a 2600K, it would certainly be priced higher, or at least the same. All previous leaks put the 8150 at $320, priced in line with the 2600K. But now, it's mysteriously $259. The enthusiasts are able to see that something is fishy with that price, either the performance isn't up to par with a 2600K, or the price is wrong, or perhaps AMD really is under cutting Intel to try and steal some market share.

If AMD had a CPU that they could sell for $1000, I'm pretty sure they would, it's not like they haven't done it before. In order to do that though, it would have to come close to the 990X or the upcoming 3960X due out in November some time.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14875336*
> It's possible, quote me if you like, it's highly unlikely.
> 
> The 1090T launched at $300, and had to price drop a lot in order to compete, it couldn't outperform Nehalem overall and lost value over time. Especially after Sandy Bridge was introduced.
> 
> Now it's going for $169, since it can't outperform a 2500K. Obviously Sandy Bridge is a newer architecture, but the fact remains, these are both available for purchase, since, you know, Bulldozer is delayed.
> 
> If AMD had a chip faster than a 2600K, it would certainly be priced higher, or at least the same. All previous leaks put the 8150 at $320, priced in line with the 2600K. But now, it's mysteriously $259. The enthusiasts are able to see that something is fishy with that price, either the performance isn't up to par with a 2600K, or the price is wrong.


Yes its definitely worrisome. I've been watching this also and wonder why the price mysteriously dropped from the initial 320 dollars to 260 so its an 18% price reduction before launch.


----------



## Jared2608

True, but Tankguy also said that they are subject to change, who knows what will happen when they actually launch the things!


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14875275*
> The Price / Performance equations aren't always linear though. Just like a 990X is not 3 times faster than a 2600K.
> 
> Here's the Price Percentage Math.
> 
> 2600K - $315 = 100%
> FX8150 - $260 = 82.5%
> 2500K - $215 = 68.2% (In POV RAY & 7Zip the 2600K is 30% faster than the 2500K, everything else they're pretty close)
> 1100T - $190 = 60%


Check out Chews posts, Start at Pg.72-74. Hinting? You know he cant say anything, is biting his tong and has toyed with BD. I dont think he is too impressed with BD myself.

Edit: I dont care what anyone says, that ^^ is reading between the lines my friends. Summary: Dummed up and not letting the cat out of the bag but with a hint of displeasure is the recipe I am seeing. Not on par with the AMD BD hype and wait compared to the 8 month old SB.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14875497*
> Check out Chews posts, Start at Pg.72-74. Hinting? You know he cant say anything, is biting his tong and has toyed with BD. I dont think he is too impressed with BD myself.
> 
> Edit: I dont care what anyone says, that ^^ is reading between the lines my friends.


Thanks for the link, I'll have to go through that tomorrow.









Do they mention what stepping chip Chew* has?

B2 stepping may not be the final retail stepping after all, according to Anand.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14875536*
> Thanks for the link, I'll have to go through that tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do they mention what stepping chip Chew* has?
> 
> B2 stepping may not be the final retail stepping after all, according to Anand.


He is too tight lipped, dont know if he actually ever admitted to having BD but you know he does/did. . ALL I am saying is read between the lines, seems like he has something to say, on the tip of his tong but cant blurt nor will, Like maybe on the lines of......... BD is ok, but not great considering SB has been out for 8 months now.

Thats MY Opinion anyways. Prove me wrong AMD


----------



## Naturecannon

Speaking of Chew

Another interesting read
Quote:


> For whatever reason amd chose to market it as cores.
> 
> In reality however BD is more akin to 4 cores / 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> I have said this since the beginning.
> 
> There are however other reasons for calling them cores.
> 
> Example you can disable HT with intel.
> 
> AMD's design to my knowledge however does not allow for disabling a core in a module, I could be wrong however.
> 
> I see it as a 4 core part that can execute up to 8 threads, An engineer at AMD while I was there tended to agree with me


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14873169*
> Why does everything at AMD revolve around rumors? *sigh*
> 
> AMD Cancels Next-Gen Komodo Processor, Corona Platform in Favour of New Chips.
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20110906193303_AMD_Cancels_Next_Gen_Komodo_Processor_Corona_Platform_in_Favour_of_New_Chips.html
> 
> Take this with the usual grain of salt, etc.


It's not AMD's doing, its all these sites that have some random editor or writier publishing their thoughts on this subject and everyone runs with it as "news", then it starts the rumors, and then the forum wars.


----------



## StarDestroyer

sorry AMD, to quote myself
Quote:


> I new it was a matter of the order I did it in for CF then either BD or SB, and trying not to 'liquor drink' the money in between, I'm really trying to quit again and saving the money over 1 1/2 months by mid-Nov for the SB+MB would be the hardest
> 
> just checked my budget, as it turns out if I buy
> 
> i5-2500k next week
> asus p8z68-v + required sata DVD burner Oct 1
> the same silverstone 750W 80+silver I planned mid-Oct
> 
> then CF mid-Nov I won't have enough cash sitting around for any booze and I'll have a great rig ON SCHEDULE and in the exact same time as if I CFed 1st
> 
> now is that a plan or what


I'd rather support the underdog, I change my mind all the time, so next Thursday will be the final day, either I CF or get i5-2500k which means no BD

edit-when I said ON SCHEDULE I'm referring to me going off schedule by a month or 2 by spending the cash on booze, not BD being delayed


----------



## itsgucci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14875692*
> Speaking of Chew
> 
> Another interesting read


informal looks like a smart man to me







...
Anyways, I've decided to go with a Bulldozer CPU for my new build so I bought a Gigabyte 990FXA-D3 motherboard, but the fact that there isn't any official release date is killing me..
Not quite sure if I'll wait for it to come out, I'm getting a X6 Phenom if I don't see Bulldozer on the market within the end of September.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14874246*
> Delay doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is all the leaked benchmarks have been pretty poor. So us waiting for a chip that won't even be up to par with the competition is leaving a very sour taste in my mouth. Granted nothing is known for sure. But I find it quite odd there hasn't been any "good" benchmark leaks for Zambezi.


How many of them were actually done in anything other than photoshop?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14874396*
> Point. When companies like Intel delay a product, we know month's ahead of time, they don't dance around the issue
> 
> We already have a release date for SB-E


Really. Can you point me to the official statement fromt Intel on IB? It is supposed to launch in Q4, so today would be "months from now", right?

What about SB-EP? That was supposed to be in production now and launching in Q4. What has Intel said about that?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14876329*
> How many of them were actually done in anything other than photoshop?
> 
> Really. Can you point me to the official statement fromt Intel on IB? It is supposed to launch in Q4, so today would be "months from now", right?
> 
> What about SB-EP? That was supposed to be in production now and launching in Q4. What has Intel said about that?


Intel doesn't need to launch anything because they have a commanding lead over AMD.

If AMD can take the performance crown just this once, even if it is just for a few months until SB-EP or Ivy Bridge is revealed, then I think Bulldozer should be considered a big success for AMD, and people will start selling their SB chips for Bulldozer. I'd probably buy Bulldozer myself even though I knew Intel might release something faster in Q1 2012, and knowing that the FX8170 was coming in Q1 2012 also.

I think the FX8150 is going to be faster than the 2600k when both are at stock clocks. That's a win for AMD IMO. And I have this feeling that the FX8150 will edge out the 2600k clock for clock as well. This is not my fan boy hat talking, this is my Gubernatorial hat.


----------



## chrystal

Well guys was a fun read..
Ordered Intel last night , haven't used them since the core 2 days but, what can you do..
I just couldn't stand waiting any longer.

Good luck with the waiting game guys hope for your sake bulldozer rocks hard indeed when its released


----------



## Inside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrystal;14877234*
> Well guys was a fun read..
> Ordered Intel last night , haven't used them since the core 2 days but, what can you do..
> I just couldn't stand waiting any longer.
> 
> Good luck with the waiting game guys hope for your sake bulldozer rocks hard indeed when its released


I must say that it was a very funny time to go SB, with bulldozer being so close to release.

But have fun with Sandy


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrystal;14877234*
> Well guys was a fun read..
> Ordered Intel last night , haven't used them since the core 2 days but, what can you do..
> I just couldn't stand waiting any longer.
> 
> Good luck with the waiting game guys hope for your sake bulldozer rocks hard indeed when its released


Cool story bro.


----------



## jck

I found this when poking around:

Intel to launch Ivy Bridge in March 2012

It discusses how it was originally scheduled for November 2011 production with January 2012 announce. But due to the SB 6-series *design flaw*, there was a *delay* (i.e.- schedule slip) of about 2 months.

See? Even Intel has design issues and schedule slips too. AMD is not the only one.

Anyways. I'm waiting for Zambezi to see how it performs. I have time to wait.









Added:

Just wanted to show this. Anyone remember how JF-AMD has been saying not to pay attention to all the early benchmarks? That they probably weren't accurate?

Anand Shimpi mentioning not to trust certain benchmarks

Don't know what everyone else things, but AnandTech is pretty darn reputable to me. And, Anand seems to be hinting at and backing up what John has been telling us.

With seeing this, I think now some of you should be able to trust John a little more when he tells you that the benchmarks that are out are probably not going to be representative of what they will be at release.

Anand seems to concur, and his is one of the sites whose benchmarks I will look to for a fair, 3rd party eval of Zambezi's performance.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14877776*
> .../snip
> 
> Anand seems to concur, and his is one of the sites whose benchmarks I will look to for a fair, 3rd party eval of Zambezi's performance.










/\ this is what I'm waiting on, multiple 3rd party reviews in all benchmarks (not just games) will be when I make a final decision.

Glad I have time to wait







. My next system's going to be a beast, with the best price/performance I can find!


----------



## radaja

According to Doc_TB @ CanardPC.Com
Protip : B2 step is CPUID F.1.2.

seems that all the leaked cpuz SS of the FX8150P
show this as well,even though someone kept trying
to say those SS's were other than B2's,U sknow whio:lachen:


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14872194*
> How was I trying to bait him, when all I did was respond to what he wrote?
> 
> I've stood up for JF-AMD here many times.
> 
> But my response was my opinion, based on my interpretation of what he wrote, which is:
> 
> He's pointing out how Intel is delayed, etc, yet, every time we ask him about Bulldozer delays, all we get is "I don't comment on client"
> 
> Like I said, if you can dish it, you can take it. I suggest you read back my response, here:
> http://www.overclock.net/14868746-post4492.html
> 
> To compare Ivy Bridge delays to Bulldozer delays, those comparisons are not even in the same league. Ivy Bridge is 22nm, while BD was meant to be 45nm in 2009, and BD 32nm was due out several times this year, and it's been delayed again.
> 
> If I misunderstood, I'm sorry to JF-AMD, but that was my interpretation of what he wrote.


He wasn't _really_ making a direct comparison of Ivy Bridge to Bulldozer delays. Surely you saw his point.

How were you baiting him? I already said it:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln;14871592*
> You totally missed the boat and took liberties interpreting what he was saying. He wasn't pointing fingers. His point was that delays are vendor agnostic. They happen. Roadmaps aren't always followed to a T. Roadmaps *change*. New roadmaps come out to accommodate! And it's his speculation that things don't always go smoothly. It's not hypocritical of him to point that out; he wasn't judging anyone. So I'm also not sure how you interpreted that as arrogance; it was stated matter-of-factly. *Regardless his character is not even relevant to the topic*. Looks like you were just trying to bait him.


His character has no relevance at all to whatever point you were making.
Quote:


> " don't point out how Intel is delayed and blah blah blah, when your own products haven't even hit the market and have been delayed NUMEROUS times. That's what I found arrogant"


There's also no need to "stand up" to him. He's not bullying anyone. He's not dishing anything out - that is where you grossly misinterpreted what he was saying. You're focusing on the fact he pointed out Intel's delay and spinning (interpreting) that into negativism when he was really using that example to make a bigger point. In other words, scale out and see the bigger picture; don't get lost in the minutia.
Quote:


> "Besides, Intel already OWNS the top performance crown, who is in need of getting their act together more, Intel or AMD?"


A statement like this is really not relevant to what JF-AMD was talking about either. He wasn't brushing aside AMD's lag behind Intel in a manner to discredit them; his point was that delays happen in this business even to Intel. So bringing up points "who needs to get their act together" and "Intel is the best" is not really relevant to JF's argument. I'm sure AMD is fully aware they would like to get their products out as soon as (financially) possible.
Quote:


> Get out?
> 
> Here's what I have to say to that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he's going to point out how Intel's products are delayed, is he not able to hear that his own products are delayed?
> 
> It's the truth, it's not like I'm making up rumors.
> 
> If I said something that was in-appropriate the mods would've deleted my posts.
> 
> I know the truth hurts, try not to take it personal.


But he doesn't need to hear accusations of him being arrogant, since that is irrelevant. And you also put a spin the truth saying things like "dancing around the issue", "acting like everything is fine," "who needs to get their act together." These type of comments are more than the truth, and you know it. I know you know it, so there's no reason to deny it. There's more to this than if AMD has flat out lied, which is what you're implying.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14875336*
> It's possible, quote me if you like, it's highly unlikely.
> 
> The 1090T launched at $300, and had to price drop a lot in order to compete, it couldn't outperform Nehalem overall and lost value over time. Especially after Sandy Bridge was introduced.
> 
> Now it's going for $169, since it can't outperform a 2500K. Obviously Sandy Bridge is a newer architecture, but the fact remains, these are both available for purchase *for the past 8 months*, since, you know, Bulldozer is delayed. So this is the only thing to compare it to.
> 
> If AMD had a chip faster than a 2600K, it would certainly be priced higher, or at least the same. All previous leaks put the 8150 at $320, priced in line with the 2600K. But now, it's mysteriously $259. The enthusiasts are able to see that something is fishy with that price, either the performance isn't up to par with a 2600K, or the price is wrong, or perhaps AMD really is under cutting Intel to try and steal some market share.
> 
> If AMD had a CPU that they could sell for $1000, I'm pretty sure they would, it's not like they haven't done it before. In order to do that though, it would have to come close to the 990X or the upcoming 3960X due out in November some time.


A $169 processor is slower than a $220 processor? I don't believe it. Processors drop in price over time? I don't believe that either. Widely manufactured products are obviously going to drop in price over time since they always have, and they are priced to meet demand. And Thuban was meant to compete with Lynnfield and Bloomfield, not Sandy Bridge. Since Thuban is AMD's current product, it's pretty obvious they needed to drop prices. And it's obvious it's an older design. So your comparison of Thuban to SB, especially considering Thuban is cheaper, is not relevant to the discussion of AMD undercutting Intel. Thuban isn't undercutting Sandy Bridge at all. It's priced where it belongs. And it was, for the most part, priced where it belonged when it was competing with Nehalem, especially if you consider AM3's platform cost is less than LGA1366's.

Now why did you use the i7 950 to compare to the 1090T? The 950 was $500 when the 1090T launched. It dropped to $300 a few months later. A month after that the 1090T dropped in price. Then a few months later the 1090 dropped in price again while the 950 stayed at $300.

http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16819103849
http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16819115211

Seems fair enough. The 1090T was more competitive with the i7 920, 930, and 860, and it was priced in parity with all four of these for the beginning of its lifetime but then dropped below in price for the majority of its lifetime.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln;14879670*
> 
> A $169 processor is slower than a $220 processor? I don't believe it. Processors drop in price over time? I don't believe that either. Widely manufactured products are obviously going to drop in price over time since they always have, and they are priced to meet demand. And Thuban was meant to compete with Lynnfield and Bloomfield, not Sandy Bridge. Since Thuban is AMD's current product, it's pretty obvious they needed to drop prices. And it's obvious it's an older design. So your comparison of Thuban to SB, especially considering Thuban is cheaper, is not relevant to the discussion of AMD undercutting Intel. Thuban isn't undercutting Sandy Bridge at all. It's priced where it belongs. And it was, for the most part, priced where it belonged when it was competing with Nehalem, especially if you consider AM3's platform cost is less than LGA1366's.
> 
> Now why did you use the i7 950 to compare to the 1090T? The 950 was $500 when the 1090T launched. It dropped to $300 a few months later. A month after that the 1090T dropped in price. Then a few months later the 1090 dropped in price again while the 950 stayed at $300.
> 
> http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16819103849
> http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16819115211
> 
> Seems fair enough. The 1090T was more competitive with the i7 920, 930, and 860, and it was priced in parity with all four of these for the beginning of its lifetime but then dropped below in price for the majority of its lifetime.


Yes! They compete at price points, not Ghz. You can't compare AMD's best with Intel's best because more often than not Intel's best is way more expensive with higher performance. AMD has been pretty good at releasing the "bang for your buck" processor. Currently, AMD's problem is Intel just released an "AMD" processor in Sandy Bridge (outstanding value/performance). They really are making it tough on AMD to compete and hopefully BD offerings will be on par with the SB offerings.

I'm on board to get an 8150, sure I'm an AMD guy but I do tend to root for the underdog. Detroit Lions anyone?


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14879821*
> Yes! They compete at price points, not Ghz. You can't compare AMD's best with Intel's best because more often than not Intel's best is way more expensive with higher performance. AMD has been pretty good at releasing the "bang for your buck" processor. Currently, AMD's problem is Intel just released an "AMD" processor in Sandy Bridge (outstanding value/performance). They really are making it tough on AMD to compete and hopefully BD offerings will be on par with the SB offerings.
> 
> I'm on board to get an 8150, sure I'm an AMD guy but I do tend to root for the underdog. Detroit Lions anyone?


I'm the same. I'll wait. I would like the 8150. I mostly use AMD, but that's because a) AMD usually has the best performance in my price range desired, and b) Intel chips normally are too expensive.

I had a i7-875k that I got a great price on from Microcenter last year when Newegg was $80-90 more. I had to drive to Atlanta to get it, but I still saved money. I think I spent $50 on gas and $15 in sales tax.

But, I had it that evening at the house and in the motherboard.

Oh yeah. My intel system was also the first one I put liquid cooling on ever.

Anyways...I am anxious to see what Zambezi does...and to read about the shipped Interlagos CPUs and how they fair.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I had a i7-875k that I got a great price on from Microcenter last year when Newegg was $80-90 more. I had to drive to Atlanta to get it, but I still saved money. I think I spent $50 on gas and $15 in sales tax.


How awesome is that place?! I have one a couple blocks away








I was there yesterday grabbing some power extensions and tubing for my cables. Typically a bit higher prices than online (newegg). But, the speed factor is sometimes worth the extra $

Wonder if they'll stock BD right away?! Maybe I'll camp out front the night before







I think I'd have some roommates. None that own computers though if you get my drift haha.

On another note, I just don't see them releasing a processor that won't surpass the performance of their current chips... Llano is different, and IMO is pretty sweet. Hopefully, they can run with that to increase some cash flow to be able to spend on R&D for the future.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*   How many of them were actually done in anything other than photoshop?

Really. Can you point me to the official statement fromt Intel on IB? It is supposed to launch in Q4, so today would be "months from now", right?

What about SB-EP? That was supposed to be in production now and launching in Q4. What has Intel said about that?  
I'm not familiar with SB-EP, but I will do some research to find out.

I was talking about Ivy Bridge, since the Ivy Bridge roadmaps have been updated, and there's tons of info out there that it was pushed to Q1 2012. All that info is based on Intel road maps.

http://www.techspot.com/news/43261-l...e-details.html

If we look at what JCK posted, this article is back from June...

Quote: 
  *The sources pointed out that the delay of the Ivy Bridge platform will give vendors more time to sell their Sandy Bridge-based notebook models.*

Due to Intel Sandy Bridge's 6 series chipset design flaw, Intel recalled the products in January and launched a fixed chipset in April, leaving notebook players suffering from two months of lower demand. With the notebook market also experiencing an impact from the tablet PCs, Intel has decided to slow down its pace and re-organize its lineup by delaying the launch.

Ivy Bridge was originally expected to start mass production in November of 2011 and will be announced in January of 2012, but the delay is expected to move the official launch to after March 2012.  
They are only delaying Ivy Bridge in order to give their vendors more time to sell Sandy Bridge inventory. If they had pressure from AMD, they could easily push out Ivy Bridge sooner.

Their road maps have been updated to reflect this change.










Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *jck*   I found this when poking around:

Intel to launch Ivy Bridge in March 2012

It discusses how it was originally scheduled for November 2011 production with January 2012 announce. But due to the SB 6-series *design flaw*, there was a *delay* (i.e.- schedule slip) of about 2 months.

See? Even Intel has design issues and schedule slips too. AMD is not the only one.  
True, but the Sandy Bridge recall was a very minor design flaw on the motherboard, which *could* affect 5% - 15% of buyers over a 3 year period.

Intel stopped selling SB, recalled all motherboards, the issue got fixed, and we had new motherboards in a matter of 2 months. Nothing was ever wrong with the CPU's.

We, on the other hand, are still waiting for Bulldozer to launch, and as time passes, the more it gets delayed.

-----

When I say, AMD dances around the issue, here's what I mean.

Last November, JF-AMD reveals that Bulldozer is launching in Q2.

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*   Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. *Today we gave granularity down to the quarter.* We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011  
Everything leading up to June states that Bulldozer is on time, there are no delays, etc. etc. I could post tons of info that "roadmaps" have not changed, Bulldozer is launching in Q2, and more specifically, Bulldozer is not delayed.

On May 26 AMD denies Bulldozer is delayed, *after weeks of "rumors" that it would be delayed.*
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

Looking back now, those were not rumors, they were the truth since the info was coming from Motherboard vendors being un-happy with performance.

*5 Days later, on June 1st they show this:*










They don't officially acknowledge that Bulldozer is delayed, but just say it's available within 60-90 days. And that the motherboards are available today.

We all wonder why AMD is releasing motherboards for Bulldozer, but not the CPU's?

*The ENTIRE 90 days pass* ( filled with speculation ), and a week later, on September 7, a press release is revealed that Bulldozer is now launching in Q4.

So pardon me if I have lost my patience waiting for Bulldozer as I've been hearing about it since 2007.

Like I said, with Intel we've known since May that Ivy Bridge was pushed back a quarter, *there are no surprises.* When Sandy Bridge was released we knew what type of performance to expect, and we knew the date of release MONTHS ahead of time.

We've already seen Ivy Bridge in action in a laptop, a server, and a desktop. This video is from May.

  
 You Tube  



 
*We understand that delays happen*, it's the nature of the beast. I guess my frustration comes from the lack of info that AMD reveals, they don't acknowledge that a delay is happening, until the day their "deadline" is up ( or later ), and the most frustrating is how we are kept in the dark of what's really going on.

In most cases we hear "rumors" that a delay is happening, which leads to speculation and frustration, and in the end the so called "rumors" end up being true. So, should they ever be called a rumor in the 1st place?


----------



## Canis-X

Well, ASUS released a new BIOS version today and it states that it supports new CPU's. Sadly, ASUS is not the quickest at updating their supported CPU listing as no new CPU's have been added to it and all still state, "supported since 0404". *sigh* I hope that this means BD is close.....er....ish.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Thanks for the link, I'll have to go through that tomorrow.









Do they mention what stepping chip Chew* has?

B2 stepping may not be the final retail stepping after all, according to Anand.


It's interesting how Anand is talking about a B2.G stepping, and the ASRock CPU support list leak mentioned a B2.F stepping. I've never really heard of sub-steppings like this with AMD processors. Does anyone have any idea what they entail, i.e. something more minor than the metal layer respin that would be implied going from B1 -> B2?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


How many of them were actually done in anything other than photoshop?


Well I never did say they were legit or accurate. I just find it odd that all the benchmarks are negative. Is it because everyone is against AMD or something more? Either way, I will wait until official benchmarks are released. Trust me I want bulldozer to perform well. Sandy bridge levels exceeding or a little bit behind would satisfy me. But I'm not a sucker, I will go for who offers me the best "bang for the buck" in the past that was AMD. I hope they can come through again.


----------



## StarDestroyer

ATI has there act together, (I know they merged with AMD), why doesn't whoever cooks there silicon expand and help AMDs CPUs next round after BD


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


They are only delaying Ivy Bridge in order to give their vendors more time to sell Sandy Bridge inventory. If they had pressure from AMD, they could easily push out Ivy Bridge sooner.


And...AMD might be doing the same thing? To get rid of Phenom II/Opteron 61xx stocks? Hm?

Quote:



True, but the Sandy Bridge recall was a very minor design flaw on the motherboard, which *could* affect 5% - 15% of buyers over a 3 year period.

Intel stopped selling SB, recalled all motherboards, the issue got fixed, and we had new motherboards in a matter of 2 months. Nothing was ever wrong with the CPU's.


True about the CPU not being bad, but it was Intel's own 6-series chipset as documented in this page about the resolution from Intel:

IntelÂ® 6 Series Chipset
Chipset circuit design issue identified

Quote:



We, on the other hand, are still waiting for Bulldozer to launch, and as time passes, the more it gets delayed.


I'd rather it be delayed than come out with an issue...but that's just me.

Quote:



When I say, AMD dances around the issue, here's what I mean.

Last November, JF-AMD reveals that Bulldozer is launching in Q2. 
...
Everything leading up to June states that Bulldozer is on time, there are no delays, etc. etc. I could post tons of info that "roadmaps" have not changed, Bulldozer is launching in Q2, and more specifically, Bulldozer is not delayed.

On May 26 AMD denies Bulldozer is delayed, *after weeks of "rumors" that it would be delayed.*
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

Looking back now, those were not rumors, they were the truth since the info was coming from Motherboard vendors being un-happy with performance.

*5 Days later, on June 1st they show this:*










They don't officially acknowledge that Bulldozer is delayed, but just say it's available within 60-90 days. And that the motherboards are available today.

We all wonder why AMD is releasing motherboards for Bulldozer, but not the CPU's?

*The ENTIRE 90 days pass* ( filled with speculation ), and a week later, on September 7, a press release is revealed that Bulldozer is now launching in Q4.

So pardon me if I have lost my patience waiting for Bulldozer as I've been hearing about it since 2007.

Like I said, with Intel we've known since May that Ivy Bridge was pushed back a quarter, *there are no surprises.* When Sandy Bridge was released we knew what type of performance to expect, and we knew the date of release MONTHS ahead of time.

We've already seen Ivy Bridge in action in a laptop, a server, and a desktop. This video is from May.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB706hhCDZc

*We understand that delays happen*, it's the nature of the beast. I guess my frustration comes from the lack of info that AMD reveals, they don't acknowledge that a delay is happening, until the day their "deadline" is up ( or later ), and the most frustrating is how we are kept in the dark of what's really going on.

In most cases we hear "rumors" that a delay is happening, which leads to speculation and frustration, and in the end the so called "rumors" end up being true. So, should they ever be called a rumor in the 1st place?


Should they be rumors? Until proven 100% accurate...absolutely...whether from AMD's own admittance...or verifiable, solid proof.

As to what rumors:

benchmarks having to do with Zambezi - you can't prove how it will perform in a production platform until actual production units are available

timelines/delays: I'm sure I could go show examples of Intel doing last second delays. I'm sure I could go back and show where AMD did changes in schedule far ahead. You don't really know for sure unless the manufacturer tells you. We all want to be told as far in advance as possible. Don't you think an IT director who is looking to replace a server cluster wants to know too?

I do know one thing. John's server product is out...not "released"...but, it's shipped and is probably by now in the hands of some of AMD's clients. It got out there. So, putting the grill to him because he's "AMD" isn't fair. His product is there...it's just not yet "official" or "released" or whatever label you want to give it.

I think your anger with the delays is understandable, but it'd be better focused at someone on client-side. I can imagine that there's only so much John can say under his employment agreement, and only so much he will say about a product line that is not his job to represent.

And to be honest: it's not gonna do that much good to get so upset about them being late or delayed or whatever.

Zambezi will be out when it's out. Release is at release. Benchmarks are official at release. Official announcements are when AMD corporate wants them to be made.

None of us can change that.

At most, John can just pass along things (from us) to others either in client-side or Public Relations. He doesn't make the decisions for everything.

I'm sure he also has legal staff that has to approve "official" things, as well as probably other cross-approval processes that have to happen.

I remember the big corporate world. It's a circus. That's why I left it.


----------



## StarDestroyer

and another thing, what kind of contest lets people enter it once every day, what nefarious purpose does that serve AMD

I'll off to bed, will wear my alien repellant and keep the heater under the pillow


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


and another thing, what kind of contest lets people enter it once every day, what nefarious purpose does that serve AMD

I'll off to bed, will wear my alien repellant and keep the heater under the pillow


they want your email multiple times!!!


----------



## tjwurzburger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14880690*
> and another thing, what kind of contest lets people enter it once every day, what nefarious purpose does that serve AMD


It makes you feel like you're getting somewhere. Every time I enter the contest (now like > 40 times for me) I subconsciously think I'm a little bit closer to maybe getting an 8150.

Of course it makes no logical sense, but marketing often isn't based on logic. It's based on emotion.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tjwurzburger*


It makes you feel like you're getting somewhere. Every time I enter the contest (now like > 40 times for me) I subconsciously think I'm a little bit closer to maybe getting an 8150.

Of course it makes no logical sense, but marketing often isn't based on logic. It's based on emotion.


I know,i get so mad when i forget a day,and yesterday when i found out they extended the entry period i got so mad for missing 1 day(i blame AMD for that one)









GL tjwurzburger on the giveaway!!


----------



## Tyreal

IN MY OPINION, pretty bad when you need to get a server guy into a client forum, to promote hype for client cpu's...

IN MY OPINION, AMD should ask Obama for a bail-out


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:



"Besides, Intel already OWNS the top performance crown, who is in need of getting their act together more, Intel or AMD?"


This is the way that I see it. Intel focuses on bringing out the best CPU's to the market even at an up cost where as AMD in my opinion focuses on Price rather then Performance.

I honestly dont think AMD will ever be competitive with Intel just based on the fact that they really dont build products for US enthusiasts. where as Intel builds for Enthusiasts.

I wish AMD would focus more on building products for enthusiasts and stop worrying about keeping the price down. Lets say AMD built a CPU better then Sandy Bridge and it was alittle more expensive I would have no problem paying the a higher price because I want the performance.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tyreal*


IN MY OPINION, pretty bad when you need to get a server guy into a client forum, to promote hype for client cpu's...


John already said he was here on his own time, and not company time. He said that a LONG time ago.

You should be appreciative. John puts up with this kind of antagonism to dismiss what rumors that are out there which he can...and isn't getting paid a red cent for it.

The other option is...you get no one telling you anything if it's not coming out in a press release. Would you prefer that?









Said it before, and I'll say it again. Thank you, John.


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tyreal*


IN MY OPINION, pretty bad when you need to get a server guy into a client forum, to promote hype for client cpu's...

IN MY OPINION, AMD should ask Obama for a bail-out


















Can you comprehend anything that has been posted in this thread????

I mean how, in any way shape our form, if you read any of J-F's posts would you even think Amd sent him here? He even has a disclaimer.........

Hype? He's trying to help clear up misinformation........

If and when J-F leaves for good, which at the rate people attack him could be any day now, I won't blame him.

Thank you for your posts J-F and you truly have the patience of a saint. I can only imagine what kind of pm's you must get.

And people say opinions can't be wrong.......... Pfft!

Sent from my I500 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


...but I do tend to root for the underdog. Detroit Lions anyone?










Not after what they did to my beloved PATS in the Pre-season!
















I've respected AMD since the 386-40mhz days. Sad that I've had to state this. I have no bias to any company. One of the greatest chips ever IMO was the DLC40.

Now John can you please answer my question? With all the garbage I'm hoping you just missed it.


----------



## kzone75

Well maybe AMD meant 60-90 workdays from June 1st. That would put day #90 at October 4th (give or take a few days. I lost track halfway through).







And then they probably have some holidays in there, which would add a couple of days. Maybe some summer vacation as well. Not sure how long vacations you have in the States, but it's about 4 weeks here. It always was Q4 and BD's not delayed.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kzone75*


Well maybe AMD meant 60-90 workdays from June 1st. That would put day #90 at October 4th (give or take a few days. I lost track halfway through).







And then they probably have some holidays in there, which would add a couple of days. Maybe some summer vacation as well. Not sure how long vacations you have in the States, but it's about 4 weeks here. It always was Q4 and BD's not delayed.










They probably did assume work days...

Also, they did say late summer 2011 (the suspected date Sept.19/2011 is technically late summer 2011) and a delay to fall 2011 (assuming that the rumors of an early October release are true) would only be a 2-3 week delay, something that isn't that big.

Delays happen, sorry; we're all just human and we can't see the future. We can try our to best to keep our promises regarding the future, but we can't guarantee they'll come true.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have posted on enthusiast forums because a.) people want to talk about technology and b.) occasionally people in the server world are in these forums, as you have indicated.

I am by no means apologetic for my product, but I am also not hyping my product. I will let the results play out because I believe we have a great product.

Since you are on the topic of "all talk", I will patiently sit back and watch on Sandybridge EP (promised for Q3) and Ivy Bridge (promised for Q4.) It will be interesting to see where they actually land. They might be "all talk, promises and delays" as well. But the reason I don't jump in and start criticizing them is that this is a comlicated business. We are putting hundreds of millions of transistors onto a compressed piece of sand about the size of your thumbnail. Everyone needs to cut the people in the semiconductor business a bit of slack, this is complicated work.


This is why JF-AMD is here


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Point. When companies like Intel delay a product, we know month's ahead of time, they don't dance around the issue and act like everything is fine. ( Notice, 2 different links, I could add more if you want them )

We also know when their products are to be released, and of course, they also launch new architectures like clockwork. AMD on the other hand has been delaying Bulldozer since 2009, they don't give accurate deadlines, and fail to meet them, and never really acknowledge what causes the delays. When we ask when BD is being released we get talked down on, and are expected not to question anything.

We already have a release date for SB-E


Still missing your point, that is, the significance of such. I believe your point is to fill your own void, such as building your confidence, seeing that you get quite bent out of shape over a delay of an anticipated product which occurs quite often if you have any understanding in the field.

Quote:



Get out?


Actually, you are going against ToS. You are creating a bad environment on these boards. You post problematic material and continuously go off-topic.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


Still missing your point, that is, the significance of such. I believe your point is to fill your own void, such as building your confidence, seeing that you get quite bent out of shape over a delay of an anticipated product which occurs quite often if you have any understanding in the field.

Actually, you are going against ToS. You are creating a bad environment on these boards. You post problematic material and continuously go off-topic.


The mods have no problems in deleting posts in this thread, nor are they shy to hand out infractions for violating the TOS. ( Trust me, I know







)

If I was problematic, or posting off topic, my post would've been deleted. Everything I post is backed up by factual information. If you can't handle the truth, then skip over my posts. Several people have repped the very posts you have a problem with, so perhaps it's you that needs to look in the mirror to figure out why you're taking it so personally.

I'm not trying to fill any voids, my rig is doing just fine, and performs better than anything AMD has to offer right now for my needs. Plus, it will be upgraded to a 3930K when it comes out in November. I do however have a wife that has been waiting on a computer all year, and I wish I had built her one with Sandy Bridge long ago, instead of being stuck in this waiting loop. Right now, shes' stuck using a 3800+.

If you think I'm picking on JF-AMD, think again, here are 2 examples:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post14709372
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post14755134


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hueristic*


Not after what they did to my beloved PATS in the Pre-season!
















I've respected AMD since the 386-40mhz days. Sad that I've had to state this. I have no bias to any company. One of the greatest chips ever IMO was the DLC40.

Now John can you please answer my question? With all the garbage I'm hoping you just missed it.










Off topic but...

YOU leave my Lions alone lol

I've been a lions fan since birth. I think they will do pretty well this year. after their 0-16 season a few years back, they can only go up.

As for BD... I think the general complaints by most (including myself) isnt towards John (though some flat out blame him and thats just ridiculous) its towards AMD and their total lack of information to its customers. AMD owes it to their customers. If it wasnt for us customers, whether its enthusiasts or your average joe shmoe, they wouldnt be here. Obviously there is a HUGE outcry for answers to a release and some performance... They know it. It would be hard NOT to know it unless they live and work in a place that has no internet, phone, or TV within 3,000mi.

I do agree with SOME of Johns responses he does COME OFF as arrogant, but since this is all written text, its hard to to tell if that's what is meant with out HEARING the "speakers" tone, so maybe he doesnt mean to come off that way or not.


----------



## Homeles

I don't think he comes off as arrogant at all. Irritable sometimes, yes (which is completely reasonable due to the amount of ignorance here), but not arrogant.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14883350*
> The mods have no problems in deleting posts in this thread, nor are they shy to hand out infractions for violating the TOS. ( Trust me, I know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> If I was problematic, or posting off topic, my post would've been deleted. Everything I post is backed up by factual information. If you can't handle the truth, then skip over my posts. Several people have repped the very posts you have a problem with, so perhaps it's you that needs to look in the mirror to figure out why you're taking it so personally.
> 
> I'm not trying to fill any voids, my rig is doing just fine, and performs better than anything AMD has to offer right now for my needs. Plus, it will be upgraded to a 3930K when it comes out in November. I do however have a wife that has been waiting on a computer all year, and I wish I had built her one with Sandy Bridge long ago, instead of being stuck in this waiting loop. Right now, shes' stuck using a 3800+.
> 
> If you think I'm picking on JF-AMD, think again, here are 2 examples:
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-76.html#post14709372
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-86.html#post14755134


I had allot to say about this post but I would get in trouble if I did say something.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14883852*
> I had allot to say about this post but I would get in trouble if I did say something.


I am shocked that you would have a problem with my posts.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14883867*
> I am shocked that you would have a problem with my posts.


Nobody's perfect.


----------



## Phantom123

I wonder when they are going to email the winners for the AMD FX contest they had. If anyone gets an email saying they won be sure to post here!


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Everything I post is backed up by factual information.


Most of your "proof" resides only around a delay. Which is common knowledge. If you think you have "something" meaningful to contribute, you might as well start.

Your egocentric attitude is very unprofessional. Going around blabbing about a delay to stroke your ego is not only childish but contributing absolutely nothing positive to these boards.
Quote:


> If you can't handle the truth, then skip over my posts.


That is quite egocentric.
Quote:


> Several people have repped the very posts you have a problem with, so perhaps it's you that needs to look in the mirror to figure out why you're taking it so personally.


If you haven't known, there are quite a few "kids" on these boards that are still in a phase of rebellious mentality and or excessive fanboyism.
Quote:


> I'm not trying to fill any voids, my rig is doing just fine,


I was stating a psychological void which is, clear as day, prominent.








Quote:


> If you think I'm picking on JF-AMD, think again, here are 2 examples:
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-76.html#post14709372
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-86.html#post14755134


Can you quote me where I said you were picking on JF?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14883899*
> Most of your "proof" resides only around a delay. Which is common knowledge. If you think you have "something" meaningful to contribute, you might as well start.
> 
> Your egocentric attitude is very unprofessional. Going around blabbing about a delay to stroke your ego is not only childish but contributing absolutely nothing positive to these boards.
> 
> That is quite egocentric.
> 
> If you haven't known, there are quite a few "kids" on these boards that are still in a phase of rebellious mentality and or excessive fanboyism.
> 
> I was stating a psychological void which is, clear as day, prominent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you quote me where I said you were picking on JF?


Couldn't said it better myself.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14883623*
> I do agree with SOME of Johns responses he does COME OFF as arrogant, but since this is all written text, its hard to to tell if that's what is meant with out HEARING the "speakers" tone, so maybe he doesnt mean to come off that way or not.


Cut him some slack; he is greeted by word smiths and a rehash of the last question everyday...which, mind you, is on his free time.

JF sounds like a pretty cool guy. And by his videos, his tone does not match what people think he is coming off by.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;14882236*
> Well maybe AMD meant 60-90 workdays from June 1st. That would put day #90 at October 4th (give or take a few days. I lost track halfway through).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then they probably have some holidays in there, which would add a couple of days. Maybe some summer vacation as well. Not sure how long vacations you have in the States, but it's about 4 weeks here. It always was Q4 and BD's not delayed.


*LOL I said the same thing







Great minds think alike*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14765700*
> October 4th would be day 90 if they meant business days.


----------



## Impunity

i just wanted to share a thought or two on "pricing strategy" and whatnot.

*disclaimer: i dont work for AMD this is speculative theory, etc.*

Currently the 'king of the hill' is pretty much the 2600k, on Newegg it retails for around $315. Lets assume that the AMD chip is within ~5% in terms of overall perfomance, we're not really concerned with performance here, but for the sake of argument, lets just say its close. So far the best guess we have is $260 for an FX8150, thats about $55 less. Does this represent $55 less performance or something else?

If AMD were to price their chip at the exact same price/perfomance ratio, their retail cost would be nearly the same as the Intel chip. As a result Intel could choose to undercut them on price, but even if not they have the upper hand with brand recognition and reputation. This is not the position you want to be in if you're trying to capture market share.

OTOH, lets say AMD runs their margins super lean, and prices the chip as cheap as possible from the start, perhaps even taking a slight loss in the first quarter of production. They have a chip that is competitive with with Intel's Halo proc. at a price that Intel will struggle to compete with. AMD gains market share and reputation for value while maintaining performance builds brand loyalty like nothing else.

That said, its my theory that AMD is introducing the chip as a gambit. They're goal is to beat 2600k performance at a price that Intel cant reach. Now, i can alraedy hear you saying "SB-E is around the corner" but so is Komodo, at least officially. Obviously AMD doesnt want to take a loss for long, so perhaps they're pushing Zambezi as far back as possible to get a leg up for Komodo production, where they can price it higher, make up for their losses and still be less expensive than SB-E or IB, which wouldnt surprise anyone if its $1000.

The notion that AMD will be taking a loss on these chips is reinforced by the fact that they've invested a *LOT* into this chip (radically new arch, new process, etc.) so $260 is already a scary number interms of profit.

JF, i know you're not a pricing strategist and probably have little to do with the actual retail cost, but if you can provide feedback on this thinking, that would be awesome, even if you can just acknowledge that you "cant say anything".


----------



## JF-AMD

I would never comment on pricing strategies. That is always off limits.


----------



## Nocturin

The interwebz are smart sometimes- other times, well not so much


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14884105*
> Currently the 'king of the hill' is pretty much the 2600k, on Newegg it retails for around $315. Lets assume that the AMD chip is within ~5% in terms of overall perfomance, we're not really concerned with performance here, but for the sake of argument, lets just say its close. So far the best guess we have is $260 for an FX8150, thats about $55 less. Does this represent $55 less performance or something else?


It might not mean anything, a lot of people here tend to say how AMD chips are cheaper because they're slower, but forgot that a P4 based rig cost a lot more than an Athlon64 based rig when the Athlon64 was destroying the P4, it could just as easily mean "We want to entice many buyers" rather than "We have to sell for this much, the chips not fast enough for a higher price..."

I mean, all of AMDs chips...The great ones, the not so great ones and the plain crap ones were all cheap compared to Intel, price has nothing to do with the performance, the K5 was a bargain compared to the Pentium MMX but it didn't have the clock speed to compete, on the flip side..The K6 and Athlons (Including XPs and Thunderbirds) were cheaper than their equivalent Intel, but faster or equal and in general, a better buy.

Hell, if you wanna go right back..The 386 copies AMD made? Much cheaper than Intel, despite being the same chip with a different logo on it.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14884214*
> I would never comment on pricing strategies. That is always off limits.


Is there a story behind the bulldozer name?

I'd lol if it is similar to new recruits in fighter divisions. Bunch of the teachers and other members group around a whiteboard, plop a bunch of names on the board, and just votes/gives a pilot some random name...


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14884469*
> Is there a story behind the bulldozer name?
> 
> I'd lol if it is similar to new recruits in fighter divisions. Bunch of the teachers and other members group around a whiteboard, plop a bunch of names on the board, and just votes/gives a pilot some random name...


I'd be curious to know too


----------



## Homeles

Keep in mind that Intel has far more brand recognition than AMD to your average consumer. I was always told when looking at computers that AMD processors were cheap and weren't as good as Intel, even though that was prior to the Conroe days. Intel can afford to sell their processors at a higher price because average consumers will generally buy them over AMD, regardless of performance.

(this might not be the truth, but it is what I've experienced)


----------



## ismet

Word of mouth can create a lot of leverage for a company.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14884469*
> Is there a story behind the bulldozer name?
> 
> I'd lol if it is similar to new recruits in fighter divisions. Bunch of the teachers and other members group around a whiteboard, plop a bunch of names on the board, and just votes/gives a pilot some random name...


An older post in this thread








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10221256*
> Don't know much about how it started. All of the older code names were hammers (the original architecture was called "hammer".)
> 
> So you had jackhammer, sledgehammer, etc. But, alas, no MC Hammer (where is the love?)
> 
> So as we moved to the new architecture we needed something bigger, thus you have bulldozer for the big core and bobcat for the small core - both are earth movers.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14884655*
> An older post in this thread


Finally some real concrete info we can take to the bank.

Thanks,this thread has gone to hell the past two days


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14876329*
> What about SB-EP? That was supposed to be in production now and launching in Q4. What has Intel said about that?


I never knew intel made SB-EP,and besides i think it's done and online:lachen:
Quote:


> Welcome to The Spacebuild Enhancement Project
> The wiki about (*SBEP*) that anyone can edit
> 
> 40 articles since January 2009


*SB-EP Information Site*

Or maybe your talking about something else


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14884655*
> An older post in this thread


And I thought Bulldozer was meant to *Bulldoze* the competition. At least that's how it was played up to be by the media.

http://www.dailytech.com/Bulldozing+the+Competition+in+2009/article8204.htm

http://www.infoworld.com/t/hardware/amd-unveils-strategy-bulldoze-competition-435


----------



## oicw

Nowadays, "bulldozer" is a representation of AMD's launch speed









Hell, they should just call it "Cat", as in caterpillar


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14884793*
> I never knew intel made SB-EP,and besides i think it's done and online:lachen:
> 
> *SB-EP Information Site*
> 
> Or maybe your talking about something else


http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-8core-sandy-bridgeep-processors-have-150w-tdp-/


----------



## cusideabelincoln

AMD themselves never said they were going to "bulldoze" the competition. That sensationalism was entirely from the media outlets. And who can blame them? It's an easy pun.

That slide is four years old and looks like it comes from marketing, not development.


----------



## Darkpriest667

JF AMD can we all rally behind you to get a push to rename komoto to MC Hammer. I'd really enjoy that.


----------



## Conner

I am so angry about bulldozer being pushed back yet another month... smh


----------



## mystikalrush

It seems like alot of the leaked benchmarks BD is having alot of trouble with the software, and it seems possible a windows update just for it to work correctly, i can see why theres all these delays, things are going as expected







This better not be a faildozer!


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14885032*
> JF AMD can we all rally behind you to get a push to rename komoto to MC Hammer. I'd really enjoy that.


Don't do that. Then the chip will make them broke and irrelevant.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mystikalrush;14885134*
> It seems like alot of the leaked benchmarks BD is having alot of trouble with the software, and it seems possible a windows update just for it to work correctly, i can see why theres all these delays, things are going as expected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This better not be a faildozer!


Repeat after me: the benchmark is wrong...the CPU is not finalized...the test is flawed...you are just dreaming.....you didn't see anything...it is all just rumors.....fuhgetaboutit....

Now I will snap my fingers and you will forget that Bulldozer even exists...
.
.
.
.
Until release date.
.
.
.
*SNAP*


----------



## xd_1771

*Do not respond to spam or discuss about it. Report it and move on.
-xd*


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14884655*
> An older post in this thread


Haha... oh the names.

Be pretty awesome seeing some "hammer time" commercials.


----------



## HK_47

Domino, Is that the robot from the Carls Jr Commercial?


----------



## StarDestroyer

looks like johnny 5 robot of the 80s sci-fi era


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14884571*
> Keep in mind that Intel has far more brand recognition than AMD to your average consumer. I was always told when looking at computers that AMD processors were cheap and weren't as good as Intel, even though that was prior to the Conroe days. Intel can afford to sell their processors at a higher price because average consumers will generally buy them over AMD, regardless of performance.
> 
> (this might not be the truth, but it is what I've experienced)


I think you should look up and read AMD's history and then you will find out why Intel has enjoyed such a lead over AMD. Keyword: *IBM*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ismet;14884638*
> Word of mouth can create a lot of leverage for a company.


See above. *IBM* is what got Intel public notice.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14886583*
> Domino, Is that the robot from the Carls Jr Commercial?


It is Johnny 5 from the 80's movie "Short Circuit"


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conner;14885095*
> I am so angry about bulldozer being pushed back yet another month... smh


Here, fixed for you.


----------



## Schmuckley

i didn't "want" to buy intel..i've been waiting on bulldozer all year








after the june 6th delay..i caved..now another month


----------



## Sabatooth

Hi there,

Will amd release soon a new Sabertooth 1090FX?


----------



## Roedi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sabatooth;14887797*
> Hi there,
> 
> Will amd release soon a new Sabertooth 1090FX?


A what? 1090T is a cpu, Sabertooth = motherboard series








you ar looking for this? :http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/SABERTOOTH_990FX/


----------



## Sabatooth

Yes, I know it... There is a Sabertooth 990FX and
Buldozer Zambezi will be realeased soon, by 19. September.

I'm asking this, because my ASUS 890 FX mainboard is now working decently and allthough I am thinking to buy the new trends, it would make sense if I wait a while more...


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14880188*
> We've already seen Ivy Bridge in action in a laptop, a server, and a desktop. This video is from May.


That video is weak proof of 22nm, it can be anything else in those pc´s.
Last month saw news that 22nm technology will be postponed a bit because of manufacturing issues.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sabatooth;14887983*
> Yes, I know it... There is a Sabertooth 990FX and
> Buldozer Zambezi will be realeased soon, by 19. September.
> 
> I'm asking this, because my ASUS 890 FX mainboard is now working decently and allthough I am thinking to buy the new trends, it would make sense if I wait a while more...


BD is delayed again until at least Oct


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14888106*
> That video is weak proof of 22nm, it can be anything else in those pc´s.
> Last month saw news that 22nm technology will be postponed a bit because of manufacturing issues.


So you're saying that Intel is lying? Interesting prerogative.

Surely, even you can come up with something better than that.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quoted from elsewhere
Quote:


> Fiery who is the developer of the popular AIDA64 said that the whole BD microarchitecture is crappy and 8-core Zambezi can't even compete with 6-core Thuban in some cases.
> He wouldn't be surprised if Zambezi will never be launched. Looks like that they have an Interlagos sample.
> Source


----------



## Death Saved

I really really hope all the bad news is being let out on purpose by AMD to catch intel with its pants down but...Q_Q


----------



## xd_1771

MSI lists AMD "FX" Zambezi CPUs in its power supply calculator on the website, *complete with the part numbers, and there are several!!!*

See link

*ZD282046W64K3* is one
The highest end one is *ZD342046W6K44*


----------



## Badboyz

lol that is funny


----------



## sumonpathak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14889897*
> MSI lists AMD "FX" Zambezi CPUs in its power supply calculator on the website, *complete with the part numbers, and there are several!!!*
> 
> See link
> 
> *ZD282046W64K3* is one
> The highest end one is *ZD342046W6K44*


try selecting one and then see the calculator window


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14889897*
> MSI lists AMD "FX" Zambezi CPUs in its power supply calculator on the website, *complete with the part numbers, and there are several!!!*
> 
> See link
> 
> *ZD282046W64K3* is one
> The highest end one is *ZD342046W6K44*


That's awesome. More info than what Gigabyte gave. Let's see how long it stays there. lol


----------



## hazarada

at least on my browser, when selecting the cpu the watts just keep climbing, right now im at around 100000 watts... lol?


----------



## capitaltpt

Wheww! Maybe I should make this my new signature. Can't wait for the 1.5M Watt 80+Gold to come out!










Edit: Bulldozer testing must be what caused the blackout in the Southwest US the other day


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Wheww! Maybe I should make this my new signature. Can't wait for the 1.5M Watt 80+Gold to come out!


----------



## radaja

@JF-AMD,ever since the Operation Scorpious Giveaway was extended
AMD no longer sends a confirmation e-mail like they did before,the ones
where they say thank you for entering?i thought i would bring it up and
maybe AMD can fix this,it worries me that im not getting them and it makes
me feel i'm not being entered.

"i'm Scared,i'm scared",as Mr.Jefferson and Blanket would say.

I know your just a simple Head of Marketing type of guy,but could you look into this?
thanks

"DO NOT" add a Graphics card


----------



## Addict1973

The local computer shop here in Calgary, within the last week, has a "tab" for am3+ processors. Of course it then continues to say that none are available, but in my world this is progress!


----------



## Domino

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *HK_47*   Domino, Is that the robot from the Carls Jr Commercial?  
   
 You Tube  



 
 
Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*   looks like johnny 5 robot of the 80s sci-fi era  
 Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*   It is Johnny 5 from the 80's movie "Short Circuit"  
Yuppers.

Hopefully this puppy comes by Christmas. At this rate, I might just grab their quad/hexa depending on game performance. Doesn't look like I'm going to be using this specific PC for any of my engineering work that much. And maple is only single threaded by the looks of it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


MSI lists AMD "FX" Zambezi CPUs in its power supply calculator on the website, *complete with the part numbers, and there are several!!!*

See link

*ZD282046W64K3* is one
The highest end one is *ZD342046W6K44*


Nice, the highest end needs 10 million watts of power.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee




----------



## Benz

3050000 W and still counting.


----------



## Tweeky

*Contest:*

Name the Day and the Hour that BD will be released
Many prizes
Contest closes in 2 years
All prizes forfeited if BD not released 30-90 days time frame


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


*Contest:*

Name the Day and the Hour that BD will be released
Many prizes
Contest closes in 2 years
All prizes forfeited if BD not released 30-90 days time frame


But whose 30-90 time frame? And are these business days or calendar days? I NEED ANSWERS!!!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mystikalrush*


It seems like alot of the leaked benchmarks BD is having alot of trouble with the software, and it seems possible a windows update just for it to work correctly, i can see why theres all these delays, things are going as expected







This better not be a faildozer!


What makes you think that those benchmarks are even real?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


I really really hope all the bad news is being let out on purpose by AMD to catch intel with its pants down but...Q_Q


What makes you think that news is even real?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


@JF-AMD,ever since the Operation Scorpious Giveaway was extended
AMD no longer sends a confirmation e-mail like they did before,the ones
where they say thank you for entering?i thought i would bring it up and
maybe AMD can fix this,it worries me that im not getting them and it makes
me feel i'm not being entered.


Sorry, I don't get involved in that stuff. Once I do it for one person, I get innundated with requests.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Quoted from elsewhere



Quote:



Fiery who is the developer of the popular AIDA64 said that the whole BD microarchitecture is crappy and 8-core Zambezi can't even compete with 6-core Thuban in some cases.
He wouldn't be surprised if Zambezi will never be launched. Looks like that they have an Interlagos sample.
Source


Reading that forum gave me a headache, those translations are really hard to follow.


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *emersonsc*


But whose 30-90 time frame? And are these business days or calendar days? I NEED ANSWERS!!!
























you know - amd days
so do we all


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*





















I think we're on to something. BD will have a flux capacitor. Once some clocks it to 8.8 GHz it will travel back to November 5, 1955, and change the world as we currently know it.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


What makes you think that those benchmarks are even real?

What makes you think that news is even real?


That's simple: the lack of rebuttal that it isn't real. No offense, but that's kind of a dumb question isn't it?

Here's an overwhelming mountain of evidence from people that may or may not have run benchmarks on AMD CPUs and one person who says they're not representative without further evidence why.

Now, I'm not trying to start an argument. I understand why companies have secrets and why things can't be disclosed. I'm not even saying I believe such claims. I'm merely pointing out the ridiculousness of asking "why do you think that is even real?" when the answer is so obvious.

If I were someone with no knowledge of these boards, and I researched AMD's up and coming chip, I'd think the same thing.

Again, I intend no disrespect JF. I appreciate what you do here.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln*


I think we're on to something. BD will have a flux capacitor. Once some clocks it to 8.8 GHz it will travel back to November 5, 1955, and change the world as we currently know it.


Not even that far, just to January 9th 2011







(When SB was launched)


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


What makes you think that those benchmarks are even real?

What makes you think that news is even real?










Any word from AMD to make one "think" otherwise? Besides numerous delays that is. After all these delays one is going to think and AMD just has to roll with it. Whats it matter anyways, "I think" AMD will prove all wrong Q4!! RIGHT??

After all these delays, I think AMD may have another. Would I be wrong to think that way??

JF, lets say a certian Model performance bike you were very interested in was to be released but has been delayed time after time and with no explanation why. This is after it was Hyped up by the maker themselves! You have also been saving the money forever and ever and buying accessories for that particular bike, but no dang bike nor word of hope from the maker. Wouldn't you begin to think the worst and even consider moving on to another Make? Even when the bike rep jumps in now and agian to cease doubt on the negative model rumors, I would "think" he was protecting the company and its stocks while continuing to further buy time, trying to increase performance to somewhat compete with the competition!!

When the NDA is lifted, will we hear the truth of what went on with all these delays? Very interesting chain of events I must say


----------



## matt1898

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln*


I think we're on to something. BD will have a flux capacitor. Once some clocks it to 8.8 GHz it will travel back to November 5, 1955, and change the world as we currently know it.


That would explain this............


----------



## cjmovie

Hey JF, I was wondering if you could answer some architectural questions. First of all since BD has a shared FP unit which is 256-bits wide, are there extra cycles when scheduling 128-bit operations (classic SSE) from both cores simultaneously in a module? If so, does this mean that code will achieve peak performance instead when utilizing AVX on half the cores?

I have a large amount of software that switches constantly between two states to find solutions, one which is integer heavy and one which is floating point heavy. Do you have any thoughts on whether it would be useful to optimize it to sync threads so that half work on integer while a second half work on FP with AVX?

Hopefully I'm asking things that you can answer without breaking any rules... just trying to get a head start for whenever BD does arrive. And obviously it would be best to test this once the chip is in hand due to interactions with cache etc. but hopefully I can make a better decision on what to start optimizing for. Thanks!


----------



## Fr0sty

cant find words for the last few pages


----------



## JF-AMD

If it is SSE, then the two 128-bit FMACs can execute 2 sets of FP executions on the Flex FP.

If you are running both SSE and AVX you really want AMD. With SB, for instance, you run them both on the same set of pipes, so there is a latency as the pipeline has to completely empty one before it can do the other. As you are probably aware, FP instructions are really deep and take several cycles, so that means a lot of latency. That is why intel recommends converting all SSE to AVX-128, specifically to avoid this penalty. With access to multiple pipes you can swap between SSE and AVX with little or no penalty on the swapping.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


cant find words for the last few pages


then how about numbers?









*100 million watts*


----------



## RAMP4NT

I know I'm a big time lurker, and I'll go back to being just that, but man has this thread degraded over time. JF-AMD has given quick and very informative responses to technical questions that aren't, "Clock speedz? Better than ze intel?" In fact there's a great example a few posts above this one. Way to go slugger,







keep at it.

Aaaaand back on topic, who do you guys trust for unbiased 3rd party reviews of Bulldozer? I know lots of places are accused of favoring intel in tests, just wanted to know where to get my info from for when it does come out.


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14894220*
> Aaaaand back on topic, who do you guys trust for unbiased 3rd party reviews of Bulldozer? I know lots of places are accused of favoring intel in tests, just wanted to know where to get my info from for when it does come out.


I usually check out most of the big name sites except Anandtech. He seems to dump on all AMD products


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Addict1973;14890881*
> The local computer shop here in Calgary, within the last week, has a "tab" for am3+ processors. Of course it then continues to say that none are available, but in my world this is progress!


MemoryExpress? They have one in Richmond BC








EDIT: I see it, there's supposed to be one but it's not listed. I'm going to try some URL mods...


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14894220*
> Aaaaand back on topic, who do you guys trust for unbiased 3rd party reviews of Bulldozer? I know lots of places are accused of favoring intel in tests, just wanted to know where to get my info from for when it does come out.


Anandtech, OCN, OCAU and Techpowerup.

Anand is a very old and well known and fair site, if they rip on a company its generally because the marketing went a bit too far in promises.

OCN and OCAU are forums, so generally you'll get an average consensus on its performance.

Techpowerup because they're plain great.


----------



## Nocturin

tech report would be another, [H] too maybe?

There are a bunch of websites that review products, but what your looking for would be consistence in testing, no matter the platform. The less variables changed the better.

Certain authors are always going to lean to one side or the other, which is fine by me as long as the data is correct.


----------



## mav451

I'd put TR above all else.

Anandtech can be very superficial in their reviews, and have the Asus syndrome of trying to be "frist post" [sic] and end up having to continually update and revise their articles. It could be grammar mistakes, actual technical mistakes, and even incorrect data on graphs.

TR isn't always first, but I find they are more thorough when it comes to this.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14895397*
> I'd put TR above all else.
> 
> Anandtech can be very superficial in their reviews, and have the Asus syndrome of trying to be "frist post" [sic] and end up having to continually update and revise their articles. It could be grammar mistakes, actual technical mistakes, and even incorrect data on graphs.
> 
> *TR isn't always first, but I find they are more thorough when it comes to this*.


/\ This is true (IMO)

Personally, I love TR's reviews. I'm waiting for BD to hit so they'll go over their 990 chipset MBs again. Mmmmm....hardware ('specially main boards)

this article had me rolling on the floor. In fact, now that I found it I'm going to read it again for some giggles.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14894220*
> Aaaaand back on topic, who do you guys trust for unbiased 3rd party reviews of Bulldozer? I know lots of places are accused of favoring intel in tests, just wanted to know where to get my info from for when it does come out.


Think I'll wait for Linus or PCWizKid to get their hands on it. That way I don't have to read..


----------



## StarDestroyer

if everyone one this form sends me $20 each, I'll take a briefcase full of cash over to the AMD place and bribe someone to give us latest BD benchmarks


----------



## HK_47




----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14895459*
> article


----------



## Fr0sty

20$ from everyone on this forum wont cut it ....


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14895397*
> Anandtech can be very superficial in their reviews, and have the Asus syndrome of trying to be "frist post" [sic] and end up having to continually update and revise their articles. It could be grammar mistakes, actual technical mistakes, and even incorrect data on graphs.


That's true, I tend to only listen to what the general consensus is.


----------



## jashton

I figured I would drop in since I officially went to the dark side. I have my new Intel set-up arriving on Wednesday; After waiting one delay too long for Bulldozer, my wait is offically over. AMD may not care about the small consumer like myself, but all these delays with no explanation has really been my main reason to switch to Intel. At this point i've realized I would rather pay more for Intel and get a better product (and actually exists). I personally feel AMD has let a lot of people down.


----------



## newnub123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14893605*
> then how about numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *100 million watts*


watch by my actully cpu athlon X2 winsor comes the same numbers up so why? and power supp. goes also to 100million LOL. is fake i think some is wrong there


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jashton;14897229*
> I figured I would drop in since I officially went to the dark side. I have my new Intel set-up arriving on Wednesday; After waiting one delay too long for Bulldozer, my wait is offically over. AMD may not care about the small consumer like myself, but all these delays with no explanation has really been my main reason to switch to Intel. At this point i've realized I would rather pay more for Intel and get a better product (and actually exists). I personally feel AMD has let a lot of people down.


Read my signature.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

Well according to MSI you need a burning sun in your basement to power up your pc or create a black hole







. 50/50


----------



## Obregon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14889091*
> Quoted from elsewhere


Stupidity, it is only an opinion, not statement, you dont understand hungarian language


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jashton;14897229*
> I figured I would drop in since I officially went to the dark side. I have my new Intel set-up arriving on Wednesday; After waiting one delay too long for Bulldozer, my wait is offically over. AMD may not care about the small consumer like myself, but all these delays with no explanation has really been my main reason to switch to Intel. At this point i've realized I would rather pay more for Intel and get a better product (and actually exists). I personally feel AMD has let a lot of people down.


obvious troll is obvious, etc.

Also if by saying that "AMD doesnt care about the small time consumer" you're implying that Intel _does_... well this is a little picture of me laughing at you. i especially like the part where its so funny i'm pounding my fist.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Impunity;14898580*
> obvious troll is obvious, etc.
> 
> Also if by saying that "AMD doesnt care about the small time consumer" you're implying that Intel _does_... well this is a little picture of me laughing at you. i especially like the part where its so funny i'm pounding my fist.


He never implied that Intel does. He implied that AMD obviously doesn't. They know enthusiasts are watching like crazy. They could give us something. Ive been with AMD almost a decade. If I dont get some sort of information from the mouth of AMD themselves the 19th I will be buying the MB and CPU for an Intel setup.

Not because Intel Cares.. but because they have these chips on the damn market RIGHT NOW. Whether their next chips (SBE and IVY) are late or not they are ahead right now.. and if AMD does get ahead... at this point it will be a quarter or 2 at most and then they wont be anymore unless they start pumping out new processors PDQ. And lets be honest. At this very point their chips are priced pretty competitively compared to what we believe bulldozer will be priced at (according to AMD I might add. The one thing we have gotten from them consistently was the price)


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obregon;14898577*
> Stupidity, it is only an opinion, not statement, you dont understand hungarian language


Brilliant first post.







This entire BD thread is based on opinions as there is no real official statements from AMD regarding BD, beside delays anyways!


----------



## Impunity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14899320*
> He never implied that Intel does. He implied that AMD obviously doesn't. They know enthusiasts are watching like crazy. They could give us something. Ive been with AMD almost a decade. If I dont get some sort of information from the mouth of AMD themselves the 19th I will be buying the MB and CPU for an Intel setup.
> 
> Not because Intel Cares.. but because they have these chips on the damn market RIGHT NOW. Whether their next chips (SBE and IVY) are late or not they are ahead right now.. and if AMD does get ahead... at this point it will be a quarter or 2 at most and then they wont be anymore unless they start pumping out new processors PDQ. And lets be honest. At this very point their chips are priced pretty competitively compared to what we believe bulldozer will be priced at (according to AMD I might add. The one thing we have gotten from them consistently was the price)


hey, you'll get no argument from me there. i have a 2500K with a z68 board and an additional HIS6950 in my newegg shopping cart right now. The BF3 beta starts on Friday, as an alpha tester i get 48 hours early access, that means Wednesday. Unless something happens Monday, i'm going Intel. NE usually gets things to me in a day or two. Wednesday will be a busy day for me, got to build a system and get data migrated, etc.

i love AMD and have been a big fan for years, but hardware is there to support the applications you run, not the other way around. If the hardware isnt available, then its not an option.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime;14897898*
> Well according to MSI you need a burning sun in your basement to power up your pc or create a black hole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 50/50


My new PSU for Bulldozer:


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


So you're saying that Intel is lying? Interesting prerogative.

Surely, even you can come up with something better than that.


Remember Fermi engineering sample card with woodscrews ? Companies are lying - that was your point right ?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


Remember Fermi engineering sample card with woodscrews ? Companies are lying - that was your point right ?


I suggest you re-read this to understand my point, as I break down the timeline of announcements. 
http://www.overclock.net/14880188-post4576.html

I know some people mis-interpreted it so I'll try to clear it up.

My point was that Ivy Bridge was pushed back from Q4 to Q1 2012, but we knew this *at least 6 months ahead of time*. No surprises there. Besides Ivy Bridge is 22nm, the die shrink of SB. *BD hasn't even gotten to 32nm yet*, so comparing the 2 delays is kinda pointless in my opinion.

AMD on the other hand doesn't acknowledge delays until the day their deadline is up, or in the case of the latest delay, a week after the deadline was up. We are kept in the dark with what's going on, and this entire year has been a Bulldozer rumor fest that we've had to deal with.

*Example:*

On May 26 AMD denies Bulldozer is delayed, *after weeks of "rumors" that it would be delayed.*
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

And then, on June 1st they made the 60 - 90 Day announcement, which they too failed to meet. So, what was the point of denying there was a delay 5 days prior?

I understand that delays happen, it's the nature of the beast. *Be up front about it*, this way there wouldn't be so much tension that revolves around the BD rumors. JMO.


----------



## StarDestroyer

my bulldozer has a 1st name, its L-A-T-E, my bulldozer has a 2nd name its D-E-L-A-Y-E-D


----------



## radaja

BLT has listed the FX8150P, FX8120 and FX6100 models on their site

FX8150 - 266.28

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5134P.shtml&order_id=590972573

FX8120 - 221.73

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5135P.shtml&order_id=590972573

FX6100 - 188.32

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5136P.shtml&order_id=590972573

Tankguys prices seem to be about right


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


BLT has listed the FX8150P, FX8120 and FX6100 models on their site

FX8150 - 266.28

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

FX8120 - 221.73

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

FX6100 - 188.32

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

Tankguys prices seem to be about right


Isn't that the same site that JF-AMD said wasn't an official distributor? Or something along those lines.

They listed the 16 Core a while back, with an October ETA. 
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...5P.shtml#Specs


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14900325*
> BLT has listed the FX8150P, FX8120 and FX6100 models on their site
> Tankguys prices seem to be about right


Isn't BLT the same site that had the server Bulldozer chips up like 6 weeks before it was officially launched?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14900359*
> Isn't that the same site that JF-AMD said wasn't an official distributor? Or something along those lines.
> 
> They listed the 16 Core a while back, with an October ETA.
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000505_BKU8925P.shtml#Specs


yep,so take it with a grain of pepper
but heres what JF said to the ETA thing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14489186*
> When you see those things pop up on random web sites it is typically a bad data feed from their distributor. The disti turns on SKUs they shouldn't and the reseller just takes the whole feed.
> 
> The funny thing is that you can't even be sure that the data is real. Sometimes they load with dummy data as a placeholder. I am specifically not looking at the link because I don't want to have to start answering questions about details. But I would be a bit careful on these things.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14900403*
> Isn't BLT the same site that had the server Bulldozer chips up like 6 weeks before it was officially launched?


yep,but i just posted this to show the price they listed as,seems to fall in line with what tank guys are setting them at,but take with grain of cinnamon

Also i came across this today while searching the sisoft database

It's 2 opteron 6220 8c at 2.75GHz from sept 7th 2011

2x8c opteron [email protected]

Scores
Processor Arithmetic Benchmark
score-138.538 GOPS

Processor Multi-Media Benchmark
score-315.004 Mpix/s

And as always take with a "HUGE" Grain of Lowry's Seasoning Salt


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


BLT has listed the FX8150P, FX8120 and FX6100 models on their site

FX8150 - 266.28

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

FX8120 - 221.73

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

FX6100 - 188.32

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...r_id=590972573

Tankguys prices seem to be about right


I really can't wait for BD because I'll be too tempted to spend the BD money at the liquor store









when I get my money next week I'm gonna spend it right away, so it will have to be i5-2500k

and thats a crazy cheap price for the FX6, currently x6 1100 is about $190 at newegg


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14900325*
> BLT has listed the FX8150P, FX8120 and FX6100 models on their site
> 
> FX8150 - 266.28
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5134P.shtml&order_id=590972573
> 
> *FX8120 - 221.73
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5135P.shtml&order_id=590972573*
> 
> FX6100 - 188.32
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5136P.shtml&order_id=590972573
> 
> Tankguys prices seem to be about right


I am kind of scared for the price it is. Either it is not that great of a performer or they are trying to be price competitive and it is a good performer. Hopefully it is a good performer, at least better than older generation lol.


----------



## aweir

Is Bullozer delayed because of technical/marketing/retail problems, or because they want to kill us with suspense?


----------



## StarDestroyer

if it was only 5-10% better then current phenomsII and athlonsII, there would only be 1 question, what have they been doing for the last 5? years (when did current arch. get released)


----------



## JF-AMD

Why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that I would think everyone would not believe anything.

Unless it comes from AMD don't believe it.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee




----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


if it was only 5-10% better then current phenomsII and athlonsII, there would only be 1 question, what have they been doing for the last 5? years (when did current arch. get released)


If I recall, a former engineering team member talked about this. The posts are from MR, but pxc summarized the points on [H]: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...8&postcount=88

I can't say if it was really substantiated, cuz we'll never really know - it's a forum post after all.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that I would think everyone would not believe anything.

*Unless it comes from AMD don't believe it.*


I don't think we keep on insisting on believing things online are real, I believe we want some solid information, which AMD isn't willing to give us.

You want us to believe AMD's expected launch estimates as well?

The sad part is, AMD keeps delaying BD, and is not willing to reveal any info until launch, *whenever that may be*.


----------



## HK_47

I Predict that the 8150/8170 will be able to reach 5.3ghz on air with a decent cooler, turbo core on the 8170 is 4.7GHz, and that is with a stock air cooler. (stock water-cooling is just a rumor)
I think the chip might be able to reach a good 6GHz under water... 8-9 under LN2


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav451*


If I recall, a former engineering team member talked about this. The posts are from MR, but pxc summarized the points on [H]: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...8&postcount=88

I can't say if it was really substantiated, cuz we'll never really know - it's a forum post after all.


Doesnt surprise me. The way they are running at this point, with their disregard for its customers, proves our feelings of arrogance at this company. I believe that IF bulldozer is a flop, AMD will never recover, at least in the client market.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


I Predict that the 8150/8170 will be able to reach 5.3ghz on air with a decent cooler, turbo core on the 8170 is 4.7GHz, and that is with a stock air cooler. (stock water-cooling is just a rumor)
I think the chip might be able to reach a good 6GHz under water... 8-9 under LN2


Arent the clock speeds and turbo-core speeds still rumors as well?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *emersonsc*


Doesnt surprise me. The way they are running at this point, with their disregard for its customers, proves our feelings of arrogance at this company. I believe that IF bulldozer is a flop, AMD will never recover, at least in the client market.


My feelings of AMD's arrogance started with this.










Why hasn't Intel sent AMD some similar cards with their Bulldozer delays?


----------



## nyates

Quote:



Intel finished the year with 81.0 percent share of global microprocessor revenue, up a scant 0.4 percentage points from 80.6 percent in 2009, allowing it to maintain leadership. Meanwhile, AMD ended the year with 11.4 percent share, down 0.8 points from 12.2 percent in 2009, keeping it in second place.


I kinda doubt AMD is keeping information quiet out of 'arrogance'...

I imagine pissing off a few people due to being late and secretive is less of a monetary loss than leaking details prematurely to Intel. Or possibly less of a PR loss than leaking details that its late because they F'd up.

Either way, It'll be here eventually.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


My feelings of AMD's arrogance started with this.

Why hasn't Intel sent AMD some similar cards with their Bulldozer delays?


My guess would be because SB was already launched once when that happened, and Bulldozer hasn't had an official launch date yet. I'm pretty sure that Intel will have a blast with it if Bulldozer is recalled.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jf-amd*


why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that i would think everyone would not believe anything.

Unless it comes from amd don't believe it.


^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Man you really are a die hard fanboy huh?

For what its worth.
None of the performance leaks have been positive. Could they all be fakes? Possibly. By why are all of them bad? A giant conspiracy? Probably not.

Bulldozer has been delayed, and delayed. Signs that it's a really great processor and is yielding exactly like amd wants? Or proof that its inferior and they are trying desperately to improve it as much as they can?

I'm just going about this with a rational thought process. Chances are bulldozer will break many hearts on release and it will only alienate AMD from the enthusiast market even more. Atleast they'll have llano and trinity though.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by jf-amd 
why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that i would think everyone would not believe anything.

Unless it comes from amd don't believe it.


So you are saying we have nothing to believe in. Yay!!!


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *emersonsc*


Arent the clock speeds and turbo-core speeds still rumors as well?










those clocks have been confirmed by multiple sources, as well as leaked by gigabyte, although no word from AMD we've known about the clocks for some time now


----------



## giver660

This thread is completely, utterly useless. To whomever moderates this - just delete it. That or grossly reduce it in size and lock it, maybe allowing JF-AMD to review and revise his statements at his discretion. No reason to keep it on life support anymore.

I originally started reading in here to see if I might derive some inclination of when BD would be released. It really didn't take very long to realize that no such information was to be gained.

I didn't come here to listen to Obakemono whine about everyone he finds to "take up space" in a nearly 500 page thread while failing to explain why he thinks he's above the people he criticizes and I also didn't come here to listen to 2010rig wax about how AMD is arrogant (whether or not the reason he thinks this is justified).

Why don't we all resign from this BS thread? I'll start!


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that I would think everyone would not believe anything.

Unless it comes from AMD don't believe it.


You should just shut this thread down,it's beyond ridiculous.

P.S:I think it would also help with your nerves and allow you to relax a little until the FX line is released.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


No offense, but are you biased or what?

Let's see...

AMD says Q2 release date. Rumors at first agree, but then at the last minute say "delayed to Q3".

AMD denies rumors.

Less than a week later, AMD announces BD is delayed until August.

In August, rumors say BD will be further delayed to October.

AMD doesn't comment.

A week into September, AMD announces BD is delayed to Q4.

So, what's more reliable -- what AMD says, or rumors?


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


You should just shut this thread down,it's beyond ridiculous.

P.S:I think it would also help with your nerves and allow you to relax a little until the FX line is released.


I agree.
No information from AMD.

When AMD said q2, some "things that you see online" started to say "BD will be delayed". No word from AMD until the end of q2 when them said "60-90 days from today (1st June).

Two weeks ago, some "things that you see online" started to say "BD will be delayed again". No word from AMD! and what have we seen? Nothing but 60-90 days expired.

We dont want to trust "every things that we see online" but, in the delays things, them seemed more accurate than AMD.

EDIT

I completely agree with Usario, I wanted to say the same thing (I didnt see his post, I was writing mine).

And I add, what we have to discuss in this thread if we dont have nothing other than "rumours" from online blogs, sites?

We have to discuss the FX "comics" magazine?

I always had AMD and still support AMD but I cant be happy of the delays and of the silence from AMD.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


My feelings of AMD's arrogance started with this.










Why hasn't Intel sent AMD some similar cards with their Bulldozer delays?


They would get some back about their chipset issues, uefi upgrades, pll problems and... oh yeah, delays


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No offense, but are you biased or what?

Let's see...

AMD says Q2 release date. Rumors at first agree, but then at the last minute say "delayed to Q3".

AMD denies rumors.

Less than a week later, AMD announces BD is delayed until August.

In August, rumors say BD will be further delayed to October.

AMD doesn't comment.

A week into September, AMD announces BD is delayed to Q4.

So, what's more reliable -- what AMD says, or rumors?


Did someone hack your account or something? ( I swear it wasn't me







)

That's what I said a few pages back, and got blasted for it.

@giver660 - I mentioned AMD's arrogance once in regards to the greeting card, and I found JF-AMD's comments arrogant in regards to pointing out Ivy Bridge delays, while Intel at least told us 6 months ahead of time of such delays. AMD on the other hand waits until the last minute to acknowledge a delay. It's just my opinion based on how things have transpired.

Honestly, is there anything worthwhile to be discussed in regards to Bulldozer?

If you have any info, feel free to share.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


They would get some back about their chipset issues, uefi upgrades, pll problems and... oh yeah, delays




















So that's why they don't it huh?

I still don't get the purpose of sending out those cards, and starting the "Ready. Willing. Stable" campaign, when Phenom II doesn't hold a candle to Sandy Bridge.Then again, AMD mainly caters to the un-informed, and they wouldn't know the difference. Maybe I'm looking too much into it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Did someone hack your account or something? ( I swear it wasn't me







)

That's what I said a few pages back, and got blasted for it.


Surely I'm not the only AMD fan who's frustrated with all these delays.

I'm dead serious when I say that if AMD can't deliver by November 15, I'll either try to find a way to squeeze a 3930k rig into a $2k budget or wait for the i7 970 to drop below $400. I'll do the same if Bulldozer can't beat the i7 970 (which IMO would make it an epic fail).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I still don't get the purpose of sending out those cards, and starting the "Ready. Willing. Stable" campaign, when Phenom II doesn't hold a candle to Sandy Bridge.Then again, AMD mainly caters to the un-informed, and they wouldn't know the difference. Maybe I'm looking too much into it.


I'd say they both cater to the uninformed, because the uninformed is the largest market segment.

Let's look at some of Intel's marketing...

"You can play games with our integrated graphics"

"Extreme Edition"

"Because the clock speed is higher, Pentium 4 is better than Athlon 64"


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


I Predict that the 8150/8170 will be able to reach 5.3ghz on air with a decent cooler, turbo core on the 8170 is 4.7GHz, and that is with a stock air cooler. (stock water-cooling is just a rumor)
I think the chip might be able to reach a good 6GHz under water... 8-9 under LN2



Quote:



Originally Posted by *emersonsc*


Arent the clock speeds and turbo-core speeds still rumors as well?











Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


those clocks have been confirmed by multiple sources, as well as leaked by gigabyte, although no word from AMD we've known about the clocks for some time now



So again... the clock speeds are just rumors. As John from AMD said, "If its not from AMD dont believe it."


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Surely I'm not the only AMD fan who's frustrated with all these delays.

I'm dead serious when I say that if AMD can't deliver by November 15, I'll either try to find a way to squeeze a 3930k rig into a $2k budget or wait for the i7 970 to drop below $400. I'll do the same if Bulldozer can't beat the i7 970 (which IMO would make it an epic fail).


You sure aren't, I'm an AMD fan at heart, only reason I went Intel this time around was because they suited my needs better, and at the time, the 1090T was $279 IIRC. So the difference was like $30 between the 2.

Why don't you just go with a 2600K instead? Or do you really have a use for those extra cores?

I'm already pricing out a 2500K rig for the wifey, I helped a buddy the other day, and was surprised that the whole thing came to $700 WITH an SSD in it, not bad for a budget build. Since he's not a gamer no GPU was needed, though I left him an upgrade path should he choose to add a GPU later.

------------

Bulldozer post below to keep it on topic.









What are your thoughts on the lower prices being revealed recently?

I'm undecided and it's hard not look into it, but I get the feeling the performance just isn't up to par for the initial release, hence the lower prices, or the flip side is AMD wanting to steal a lot of market share from Intel with aggressive pricing.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I have no benchmarks to back up my claim.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Bulldozer post below to keep it on topic.









What are your thoughts on the lower prices being revealed recently?

I'm undecided and it's hard not look into it, but I get the feeling the performance just isn't up to par for the initial release, hence the lower prices, or the flip side is AMD wanting to steal a lot of market share from Intel with aggressive pricing.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I have no benchmarks to back up my claim.


I too feel this is a sign of low performance,and with everything else(Da rumors)that have come out its looking more and more like this will be the case,but the good news is this is a new Uarch and it has lots of room to mature and get much better.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I only have rumors to go on


----------



## catharsis

Phenom I fiasco again anyone?


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


What are your thoughts on the lower prices being revealed recently?

I'm undecided and it's hard not look into it, but I get the feeling the performance just isn't up to par for the initial release, hence the lower prices, or the flip side is AMD wanting to steal a lot of market share from Intel with aggressive pricing.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I have no benchmarks to back up my claim.


Wishful thinking, but maybe because of the delays AMD wants to reward it's enthusiasts with a really early price cut?

*Disclaimer*: This is my *wishful* thinking, let's hope I'm right!


----------



## catharsis

I think anyone posting here, besides some die hard intel fanboys wishes for BD to be really good. However magic eight balls says outlook not so good.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Why do you guys insist on thinking that all of the things that you see online are real?

There have been enough fakes debunked that I would think everyone would not believe anything.

Unless it comes from AMD don't believe it.



1) Because ironically the online people are the ones that told us about the delays when AMD kept denying any delays then magically "oops its delayed"

2) How exactly have they been debunked? Other than a few people saying "thats fake" I mean what proof has AMD given besides their word. Before you answer reread comment 1.

3) Well considering nothing has come from AMD I guess according to that statement I better become a nihilist.

John I don't want you to think Im attacking you personally. I sure as heck am not. You've got a tough job.

Question I have is why the hell are you coming here. Most of us are enthusiasts. You don't even work in the client market. I have rarely met an enthusiast that ran a server chip. You're taking a lot of grief for your company when its totally unnecessary.

Disclaimer: This is my speculative opinion, since I only have rumors to go on


----------



## jashton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Read my signature.










I'm sorry that I was a fan of AMD and felt the need to vent my frustrations with them. I still hope Bulldozer is successful, but it's hilarious how butt hurt you get when somebody voices their opinion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Impunity*


obvious troll is obvious, etc.

Also if by saying that "AMD doesnt care about the small time consumer" you're implying that Intel _does_... well this is a little picture of me laughing at you. i especially like the part where its so funny i'm pounding my fist.











I'm not implying that Intel does, i'm implying that Intel can actually deliver a product. You should learn proper English before you start retaliating to a rant. Obvious troll is obvious? Really?

It's clear that i'm a troll because I felt like voicing my frustrations with AMD as stated above. I also love how the term troll is utilized here; Do you call your friends and family "trolls". Maybe you just want to be like Charlie Sheen.









troll: One who waits several years for Bulldozer's release and then goes Sandy Bridge.

Ex: jashton is a "troll" because he voiced his frustration with AMD after purchasing his Sandy Bridge configuration.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


You sure aren't, I'm an AMD fan at heart, only reason I went Intel this time around was because they suited my needs better, and at the time, the 1090T was $279 IIRC. So the difference was like $30 between the 2.


I'd take a 1090T over a an i7 930, but...

Quote:



Why don't you just go with a 2600K instead? Or do you really have a use for those extra cores?


I do a lot of encoding. I'd be much happier with a 970 than a 2600k. Unlike most OCNers, gaming isn't my top priority. Hell, I'd probably take an Opty 6176 over a 2600k if I could find one cheap enough (not going to happen).

I actually was planning on upgrading to an X6 (I probably would've gotten a C2Q instead of my 955 otherwise as I already had a 775 board... then again, an _equivalent_ C2Q wouldn't cost too much less than this CPU and board combined), but I got sucked into the whole "wait for Bulldozer" thing by the time I had the money. Turned out wonderfully.

Quote:



I'm undecided and it's hard not look into it, but I get the feeling the performance just isn't up to par for the initial release, hence the lower prices, or the flip side is AMD wanting to steal a lot of market share from Intel with aggressive pricing.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I have no benchmarks to back up my claim.


At this point we have almost nothing to indicate which one it will be.... but I sure am hoping for the latter.


----------



## Impunity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


------------

Bulldozer post below to keep it on topic.









What are your thoughts on the lower prices being revealed recently?

I'm undecided and it's hard not look into it, but I get the feeling the performance just isn't up to par for the initial release, hence the lower prices, or the flip side is AMD wanting to steal a lot of market share from Intel with aggressive pricing.

*Disclaimer*: This is my *speculative opinion*, since I have no benchmarks to back up my claim.


several pages ago i posted about this, and i think nobody saw it. i'll not rehash all of it, but the tl;dr version of it is that you have a choice when you bring a product to market, especially when its competitive with the high end. You can either price it with the competition to make profit or you can slice the margins thin to gain market share, and by extension increase desirability. I think AMD is doing the latter.

*IF* BD is truly competitive with SB and is in the same ball park as SB-E then they win the Price/Performance contest and will gain market share with OEMs. Then they'll try to leverage that increase with Piledriver. just a theory.


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Why do *I* insist on thinking that using my marketing skills online will make stuff true?

There have been enough things out of AMD lately that I would think everyone would be smart enough to not believe anything AMD says.

Unless it is 100% true don't believe it.


Fixed for you









And heres a freebie for future use:

Say you have a chicken that weighs 8 pounds and you have a pan that is 12 inches wide,using these two metrics you wouldn't be able to tell if the chicken fits in the pan,so you would just end up just staring at the chicken until it launched.We launch when we launch


----------



## catharsis

I'm really not going to get on the lets attack JF band wagon. JF only works for amd as a server chip market guy (sorry for not giving it "official title"). He has no control over anything that people are complaining to him about. Maybe he comes off as "arrogant" to you people because the way this forum attacks him it quite brisk and rude.

JF did not make the rules, he can only follow them. He's on here in his free time to answer the questions that he is contractually allowed to. Holding him responsible for all your anger and frustration at AMD is quite entertaining. But still very childish.

All I'm saying is people should focus on AMD the company, Not JF he's not responsible for the delays or anything else you are mad about, and he is only allowed to tell us so much.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


I'm really not going to get on the lets attack JF band wagon. JF only works for amd as a server chip market guy (sorry for not giving it "official title"). He has no control over anything that people are complaining to him about. Maybe he comes off as "arrogant" to you people because the way this forum attacks him it quite brisk and rude.

JF did not make the rules, he can only follow them. He's on here in his free time to answer the questions that he is contractually allowed to. Holding him responsible for all your anger and frustration at AMD is quite entertaining. But still very childish.

All I'm saying is people should focus on AMD the company, Not JF he's not responsible for the delays or anything else you are mad about, and he is only allowed to tell us so much.


This.


----------



## Naturecannon

What I want to know is, after the first and second delay, why in the world would AMD announce another supposed quarter launch timeline if the chip was not rock solid, boxed and ready to roll out the door???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14901782*
> Unless it comes from AMD don't believe it.


Brave Statement after the June 1st announcement from AMD and considering all delay rumors became a reality!! One must think the poor performance rumors are true too.

Gotta give you credit for sticking around and taking one for the team


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iggydogg;14903506*
> Say you have a chicken that weighs 8 pounds and you have a pan that is 12 inches wide,using these two metrics you wouldn't be able to tell if the chicken fits in the pan,so you would just end up just staring at the chicken until it is *cooked*.We *eat at lunch*


Fixed for you


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14902171*
> I Predict that the 8150/8170 will be able to reach 5.3ghz on air with a decent cooler, turbo core on the 8170 is 4.7GHz, and that is with a stock air cooler. (stock water-cooling is just a rumor)
> I think the chip might be able to reach a good 6GHz under water... 8-9 under LN2


hahahahahahahah

sorry i can't stop laughing over those peter pan assumptions


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904223*
> hahahahahahahah
> 
> sorry i can't stop laughing over those peter pan assumptions


Don't worry Fr0sty, we know you can't tolerate any speculation.


----------



## emersonsc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904223*
> hahahahahahahah
> 
> sorry i can't stop laughing over those peter pan assumptions


I couldnt agree more.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14904287*
> Don't worry Fr0sty, we know you can't tolerate any speculation.


seriously 6ghz on water???

8 to 9ghz ln2 ... LOLL


----------



## pale_neon

well 474 pages, 336 thousand views.

one thing can definitely be drawn from this thread. people care about BD.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jashton;14903347*
> I'm sorry that I was a fan of AMD and felt the need to vent my frustrations with them. I still hope Bulldozer is successful, but it's hilarious how butt hurt you get when somebody voices their opinion.


Oh I'm not butt hurt in any way, I just hate when posts like yours crop up and ruin a good thread by stating something that only inflames people. DILLIGAFF about _*YOUR*_ new Intel system? NOPE.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904331*
> seriously 6ghz on water???
> 
> 8 to 9ghz ln2 ... LOLL


6GHz on water is out there, but 8GHz on LN2 isn't unbelievable. K10 has neared 7.5GHz, and NetBurst hit 8.2GHz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14904396*
> Oh I'm not butt hurt in any way, I just hate when posts like yours crop up and ruin a good thread by stating something that only inflames people. DILLIGAFF about _*YOUR*_ new Intel system? NOPE.


It's relevant to the discussion. Bulldozer has been delayed three times and some people are giving up.

I'm not encouraging someone doing something similar to what Silas did, but come on.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14904472*
> 6GHz on water is out there, but 8GHz on LN2 isn't unbelievable. K10 has neared 7.5GHz, and NetBurst hit 8.2GHz.
> 
> It's relevant to the discussion. Bulldozer has been delayed three times and some people are giving up.
> 
> I'm not encouraging someone doing something similar to what Silas did, but come on.


I'm sorry to say, but when people act as if their lives depended on BD to release TODAY, then there is something fundamentally wrong with that behavior IMO. Look at all the things that have gone wrong in this thread. I seriously doubt that someone that knew what they wanted, and did not have an immediate need for BD, could wait this out and act professionally and polite, rather than acting like a tech-savvy teenager with a chip on their shoulder. Complaining about the wait in a public forum then going and buying the competitor's product, then returning here to "gloat" about the purchase, tells me that those who have done this have an underlying desire to justify buying the second choice because they lacked the tolerance to hold out for the product they really desired. The behavior displayed here about BD is by far the worst I have ever seen on a forum where competing products are discussed, and it is pretty pathetic IMO.


----------



## Fr0sty

just because netburst made 8ghz and phenom II got 7.5 or so .. doesnt mean that it guarantee's the 32nm parts to oc that well ...

and 6ghz on water??? where??? ohh maybe intel's sandy bridge ... but sandy isnt bulldozer ....


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14904634*
> I'm sorry to say, but when people act as if their lives depended on BD to release TODAY, then there is something fundamentally wrong with that behavior IMO. Look at all the things that have gone wrong in this thread. I seriously doubt that someone that knew what they wanted, and did not have an immediate need for BD, could wait this out and act professionally and polite, rather than acting like a tech-savvy teenager with a chip on their shoulder. Complaining about the wait in a public forum then going and buying the competitor's product, then returning here to "gloat" about the purchase, tells me that those who have done this have an underlying desire to justify buying the second choice because they lacked the tolerance to hold out for the product they really desired. The behavior displayed here about BD is by far the worst I have ever seen on a forum where competing products are discussed, and it is pretty pathetic IMO.


There are people who do need a new chip. I am one of them. (EDIT: I just realized after reading this one might look at the P4 in my sig... lol)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904636*
> just because netburst made 8ghz and phenom II got 7.5 or so .. doesnt mean that it guarantee's the 32nm parts to oc that well ...


If speculation wasn't allowed, this thread would be 50 pages.
Quote:


> and 6ghz on water??? where??? ohh maybe intel's sandy bridge ... but sandy isnt bulldozer ....


By "out there", I meant fringe. Or crazy if you will. I honestly don't expect Ivy Bridge to hit 6GHz under water.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14904634*
> I'm sorry to say, but when people act as if their lives depended on BD to release TODAY, then there is something fundamentally wrong with that behavior IMO. Look at all the things that have gone wrong in this thread. I seriously doubt that someone that knew what they wanted, and did not have an immediate need for BD, could wait this out and act professionally and polite, rather than acting like a tech-savvy teenager with a chip on their shoulder. Complaining about the wait in a public forum then going and buying the competitor's product, then returning here to "gloat" about the purchase, tells me that those who have done this have an underlying desire to justify buying the second choice because they lacked the tolerance to hold out for the product they really desired. The behavior displayed here about BD is by far *the worst I have ever seen on a forum where competing products are discussed*, and it is pretty pathetic IMO.


Sorry to say but you are the other side of the "competing" coin.
you seem to think its your job to point these folks out and that makes you just as bad.maybe give it a rest?

*Disclaimer*:this is just my *opinion* based on posts by obakemono in this thread


----------



## Fr0sty

theres a difference between baseless speculation and speculation based on professional knowledge ....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14904670*
> By "out there", I meant fringe. Or crazy if you will. I honestly don't expect Ivy Bridge to hit 6GHz under water.


next time be specific on the use of the term out there ...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904771*
> theres a difference between baseless speculation and speculation based on professional knowledge ....


It wasn't baseless. 8170 turbo core on all cores will be 4.5GHz. That's 600MHz above stock. So it's not crazy to assume that with half the cores disabled the 8170 will be hitting 5GHz. Stock. If it can hit 4.5GHz on stock voltage and stock cooling, it can probably go much higher with water cooling. 6GHz? Probably not. Could it have next to no overclocking headroom? Probably not, but it is possible. Overclocking as good, if not better, than Sandy Bridge? If these clock speeds are to be believed, likely.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14904634*
> I'm sorry to say, but when people act as if their lives depended on BD to release TODAY, then there is something fundamentally wrong with that behavior IMO. Look at all the things that have gone wrong in this thread. I seriously doubt that someone that knew what they wanted, and did not have an immediate need for BD, could wait this out and act professionally and polite, rather than acting like a tech-savvy teenager with a chip on their shoulder. Complaining about the wait in a public forum then going and buying the competitor's product, then returning here to "gloat" about the purchase, tells me that those who have done this have an underlying desire to justify buying the second choice because they lacked the tolerance to hold out for the product they really desired. The behavior displayed here about BD is by far the worst I have ever seen on a forum where competing products are discussed, and it is pretty pathetic IMO.


And you are the model poster who is mutual in every way, if only we could all be like you. I got bored of looking for more of your mutual quotes, but just look at your avatar and sig. You are completely mutual on the matter, and in no way, shape or form show your favoritism to either company.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14903167*
> Oh joy, a new CPU that Intel fanboys will throw at everyone in the AMD boards. I hope BD drives it into the ground, just like all the other SB chips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14871077*
> *To all of you here that want to buy Intel xxxx cpu because you cannot wait:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all of you here that are attacking John (aka JF-AMD):*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all of you who just want to argue about pointless speculation and tripe:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> *To all here that show up and troll:*
> Stop talking and go away.
> 
> All I want is this thread to be informative, helpful and polite, unlike what it has degraded into now. We are *ADULTS*, not children, so we *ALL* need to change our attitudes, start being polite to each other and restrain ourselves when we have the urge to type something useless, pointless or a waste of time.
> If you don't like my post, then report it, _don't reply to it_.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14816788*
> Wait for Bulldozer, it will be worth it IMO.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14827895*
> It's called "Running a company". AMD needs to make money, so they chose to get the Llnao APU out the door faster thus making allot of OEM sales for the year's end holiday sales. To be honest AMD can do what they please, because they have the information they need to be competitive. I mean, there are only a few hundred people here on OCN that might buy BD, but AMD has bigger fish to fry, aka OEM/bulk sales. Also, *IF* AMD paper launches tomorrow they will "launch" BD in Q3, as they have said, but also remember that the dates for business "quarters" are set by the company. I would like to know when AMD "Talked down" to it's customers? Why not email AMD with your "Threat" to goto Intel and see what they say to you. I think it might be positive.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14779126*
> COME ON!! Enough with the "I'm buying SB because BD (insert your gripe here)" posts.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14742180*
> COME ON AND STOP WITH THE "If BD (Insert desire) then I'm going with Intel" CRAP! I'm sick of it and it has NO PLACE in this thread!!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14824243*
> Why do you now keep trolling the BD threads? Is it to show off you have a SB now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what is it with these chowderheads that keep posting SB and IB crap here when they have been told OVER AND OVER AND OVER that this thread is for BD only, not anything Intel!!!!! No wonder why this thread gets locked down every day or so, it's the stupid people acting like kids and don't listen to the mods AT ALL!
> 
> OT: Since Gigabyte released info on BD support for AM3+ mobos, have they released anything related to AM3 mobos bios update for supporting FX cpus?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14779094*
> What did I speculate? *NOTHING*.
> Why are you and soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many others hung up on the 60-90 day thing?
> Come on, defend SB and IB please, we would ALL love to hear that broken record again! On second thought, better not, since this is a BD thread and SB/IB has NO place here.
> With those BIOS releases things are looking at for BD.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14790636*
> I was saying that JF, no worries.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14790368*
> I'm going to have to agree with John on this one, since AMD did not release this information
> A: This information is fake or
> B: Gigabyte broke the NDA.
> I'll take A.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14778347*
> LOL!
> I just added my wife's rig, and I will add my daughters later. All AMD.
> The *ONLY* rig I ever owned that was Intel was a Packard Bell Pentium 1 @133mhz. I swapped out the CPU for a AMD K5.


These are all in the last week alone.


----------



## pale_neon

Here's my prediction on Bulldozer,
I'm buying it.

I think i have the most accurate prediction of anyone so far.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;14904866*
> Here's my prediction on Bulldozer,
> I'm buying it.
> 
> I think i have the most accurate prediction of anyone so far.


Heres My Prediction
In Q4 2011 AMD Will Have The "Fastest Desktop CPU On The Market"-take it to the bank


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14904811*
> It wasn't baseless. *8170 turbo core on all cores will be 4.5GHz. That's 600MHz above stock*. So it's not crazy to assume that with half the cores disabled the 8170 will be hitting 5GHz. Stock. If it can hit 4.5GHz on stock voltage and stock cooling, it can probably go much higher with water cooling. 6GHz? Probably not. Could it have next to no overclocking headroom? Probably not, but it is possible. Overclocking as good, if not better, than Sandy Bridge? If these clock speeds are to be believed, likely.


and amd showed us that info with real retail parts and specs???










until then its speculation


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14903614*
> I'm really not going to get on the lets attack JF band wagon. JF only works for amd as a server chip market guy (sorry for not giving it "official title"). He has no control over anything that people are complaining to him about. Maybe he comes off as "arrogant" to you people because the way this forum attacks him it quite brisk and rude.
> 
> JF did not make the rules, he can only follow them. He's on here in his free time to answer the questions that he is contractually allowed to. Holding him responsible for all your anger and frustration at AMD is quite entertaining. But still very childish.
> 
> All I'm saying is people should focus on AMD the company, Not JF he's not responsible for the delays or anything else you are mad about, and he is only allowed to tell us so much.


Sure and true. Problem is he states he can only comment on server side (dont remember his exact wording) and not Desktop. Ok thats fine, but he could save himself a lot of heat if he didn't pop in to selectively comment on and defend the negative performance rumors regarding the Desktop side. That is when the mob gets stirred up more here. No disrespect intended but as the saying goes: put up or shut up!!


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14904811*
> It wasn't baseless. 8170 turbo core on all cores will be 4.5GHz. That's 600MHz above stock. So it's not crazy to assume that with half the cores disabled the 8170 will be hitting 5GHz. Stock. If it can hit 4.5GHz on stock voltage and stock cooling, it can probably go much higher with water cooling. 6GHz? Probably not. Could it have next to no overclocking headroom? Probably not, but it is possible. Overclocking as good, if not better, than Sandy Bridge? If these clock speeds are to be believed, likely.


the 8170 turbo core is actually 4.7Ghz, and my prediction was with an upgraded air cooler it wouldn't be out of the question to get a 500-600MHz overclock on a good chip. that being said, if it does 5ghz+ on air easily, then why is 6GHz on water so unbelievable? and 8GHz on LN2 certainly isn't out of the question. but these are all just Predictions, don't know why everyone take my opinion so seriously.


----------



## Fr0sty

i didnt see an 8170 on gigabyte's sku's posted not too long ago


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14902458*
> None of the performance leaks have been positive. Could they all be fakes? Possibly. By why are all of them bad? A giant conspiracy? Probably not.


Let's explore other options. One of them being the NDA (Non-disclosure agreement) they signed when they received a bulldozer chip.

A void in such an agreement would cause turmoil for the reviewer. The reviewer or tech site could be fined a large sum of money, have their site revoked from ever being allowed to be given free test samples from AMD, test chips, etc. And more then likely, with news as "Bulldozer First Benchmarks Revealed", it won't be hard to not find out.

You see fake results being thrown around as these sites want to get hits. Hits brings them revenue.

Even if these sites do have real benchmarks of the products, you can't expect the results to actually hold true to the end product. Like we saw with the first Althon 64 benchmarks released by xbitlabs; they were nothing like the final product.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14905018*
> Heres My Prediction
> In Q4 2011 AMD Will Have The "Fastest Desktop CPU On The Market"-take it to the bank


"faster" ghz probably... out benchmarking this would be impressive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115079


----------



## chadrew

I find "FX" a somewhat unfortunate choice of a name, since it reminds me of that fail nVidia graphics card series from a few years ago


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14905039*
> and amd showed us that info with real retail parts and specs???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> until then its speculation


Key fragment: "if these clock speeds are to be believed"

The rest of the chart that claimed the 8170 will have a 4.5GHz turbo was acknowledged as truth by Gigabyte recently.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14905206*
> the 8170 turbo core is actually 4.7Ghz,











Quote:


> and my prediction was with an upgraded air cooler it wouldn't be out of the question to get a 500-600MHz overclock on a good chip. that being said, if it does 5ghz+ on air easily, then why is 6GHz on water so unbelievable? and 8GHz on LN2 certainly isn't out of the question. but these are all just Predictions, don't know why everyone take my opinion so seriously.


The difference between a high-end air cooler and water cooling when it comes to overclockability has shrunk thanks to the D14, Silver Arrow, etc. Now it's more like a few hundred MHz.

And of course there could simply be a stability wall; a point you need insane amounts of voltage to pass. This is why you rarely see a Sandy Bridge above 5GHz for 24/7 use, and why you'll see some people getting near 5.5GHz for a suicide CPU-Z validation on air but no one hitting 5.8GHz without going sub-zero.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14905267*
> i didnt see an 8170 on gigabyte's sku's posted not too long ago


The 8170 is supposed to be based on a new stepping and be released in H1 2012.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chadrew;14905591*
> I find "FX" a somewhat unfortunate choice of a name, since it reminds me of that fail nVidia graphics card series from a few years ago


Reminds me of that win AMD CPU series from a few years ago.


----------



## hazarada

assuming the performance scales linearly between GHZ and number of cores and that the reported speeds of the upcoming bd skus are at least somewhere in the ballpark, according to this [ 8 core bd will be barely keeping up with a 2600k. I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how the modular design scales the performance down to lower amount of cores but if intel remains vastly superior in single thread performance while also being on the same bar at multi thread i see no excuse for BD to exist


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;14905736*
> assuming the performance scales linearly between GHZ and number of cores and that the reported speeds of the upcoming bd skus are at least somewhere in the ballpark, according to this [ 8 core bd will be barely keeping up with a 2600k. I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how the modular design scales the performance down to lower amount of cores but if intel remains vastly superior in single thread performance while also being on the same bar at multi thread i see no excuse for BD to exist


That's an engineering sample.

How many times do people have to be reminded that engineering samples perform much worse than the final product, unless we're talking about Intel's controlled cherry picked leaks?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14905206*
> the 8170 turbo core is actually 4.7Ghz, and my prediction was with an upgraded air cooler it wouldn't be out of the question to get a 500-600MHz overclock on a good chip. that being said, if it does 5ghz+ on air easily, then why is 6GHz on water so unbelievable? and 8GHz on LN2 certainly isn't out of the question. but these are all just Predictions, don't know why everyone take my opinion so seriously.


FX8170P - 3.9Ghz-4.5Ghz turbo according to the leaked slide
but it also had two * denoting TBC,so take it with a huge Grain of Brown Rice


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14905434*
> Let's explore other options. One of them being the NDA (Non-disclosure agreement) they signed when they received a bulldozer chip.
> 
> A void in such an agreement would cause turmoil for the reviewer. The reviewer or tech site could be fined a large sum of money, have their site revoked from ever being allowed to be given free test samples from AMD, test chips, etc. And more then likely, with news as "Bulldozer First Benchmarks Revealed", it won't be hard to not find out.
> 
> You see fake results being thrown around as these sites want to get hits. Hits brings them revenue.
> 
> Even if these sites do have real benchmarks of the products, you can't expect the results to actually hold true to the end product. Like we saw with the first Althon 64 benchmarks released by xbitlabs; they were nothing like the final product.


You still haven't explained why there hasn't been one positive "fake" benchmark of BD. They all make BD look pretty inferior. Why is that? You can say it's just an ES or its not full optimized. But seriously how far can optimization take you? I for one am skeptical and will remain such until benchmarks hit at launch. I just feel a lot of people will be left down. This is my educated guess. Everyone is entitled to their own.


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chadrew;14905591*
> I find "FX" a somewhat unfortunate choice of a name, since it reminds me of that fail nVidia graphics card series from a few years ago


Seems to me you don't quite understand AMD's history. If you wanna talk failure monikers, that lies with _nVidia_ 5800, not the FX part of the SKU. The FX moniker is known from the 2003 A64 launch, the FX-51. The server equivalent, of course, was the Opteron 148, but that wouldn't come out until later.

The FX-51 required registered memory, but that was a necessary sacrifice for the best desktop CPU at the time.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14905854*
> You still haven't explained why there hasn't been one positive "fake" benchmark of BD. They all make BD look pretty inferior. Why is that? You can say it's just an ES or its not full optimized. But seriously how far can optimization take you? I for one am skeptical and will remain such until benchmarks hit at launch. I just feel a lot of people will be left down. This is my educated guess. Everyone is entitled to their own.


Remember 81917 in 3DMark Vantage?

Also, I love linking to this page. And I love how this link always gets ignored.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64.html


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chadrew;14905591*
> I find "FX" a somewhat unfortunate choice of a name, since it reminds me of that fail nVidia graphics card series from a few years ago


Why? AMD has no relation to Nvidia. The FX nameplate was giving to the AMD's best athlon processors at the time. It has a good history with the company.


----------



## StarDestroyer

now whats the big historic announcement going to be tomorrow the 13th at that AMD party

official BD release date? and something specific, not just 2-3months or sometime in Q4?


----------



## newnub123

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvbUldelYUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvbUldelYUw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvbUldelYUw[/ame[/URL]] so wow a new video by AMDUnprocessed maybe closer as we think or to fare away that we see it first on xmas O_O who know let us suprise"""!!!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14906186*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvbUldelYUw so wow a new video by AMDUnprocessed maybe closer as we think or to fare away that we see it first on xmas O_O who know let us suprise"""!!!


That's about Llano and Bobcat, not Bulldozer.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14906233*
> That's about Llano and Bobcat, not Bulldozer.


he mentions FX for about 1-2 sentences at end


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14906240*
> he mentions FX for about 1-2 sentences at end


There is a lot of word play marketing in that clip.

All day battery life is consider eight outs of windows 7 at idle.

Llano is considered a high end gaming option, which is clearly isn't.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14906166*
> now whats the big historic announcement going to be tomorrow the 13th at that AMD party
> 
> official BD release date? and something specific, not just 2-3months or sometime in Q4?


Most likely server chips launching.


----------



## xd_1771

Those base clock speeds are probably correct (confirmed with info from GIGABYTE and MSI) but I am not going to trust those (rumoured) turbo core speeds. 8 core CPUs getting the full 900Mhz (not 1Ghz!?) turbo boost while 4 core CPUs get 200Mhz of turbo boost..... it doesn't make sense whatsoever. If it was a stable clock speed limit and the speeds actually lined up it possibly would, but that's not the case at all...

I'm going to stand by AMD's previous official statements of (at least) 500Mhz all core boost and 1Ghz half-core boost. I think this statement applied to the server CPUs (i.e. more cores), which *possibly* means that the desktop variants will get even higher turbo core than that.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14906166*
> now whats the big historic announcement going to be tomorrow the 13th at that AMD party
> 
> official BD release date? and something specific, not just 2-3months or sometime in Q4?


It's the "Fusion Zone Cocktail reception." While I'd love to think that it regards Bulldozer, neither Zambezi or Interlagos are members of the fusion family. While I'm kind of clueless as to what kind of statement they'd be making that would be a "historic announcement," I'm sure it's something big.

Also, I highly doubt they'd be announcing the launch date. JF's commented on this an obscene amount of times.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14905606*
> 
> The 8170 is supposed to be based on a new stepping and be released in H1 2012.
> .


that is your assumption based on a rumor

reccuring theme is assumption based on rumors


----------



## swindle

Would it kill them to give us something...

How loyal can you expect your enthusiast customers to be, seriously...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14906500*
> that is your assumption based on a rumor
> 
> reccuring theme is assumption based on rumors


Okay, so we can't discuss rumors even when every other piece of the article turned out to be true?

If you can't take rumors, please either try to debunk them or just say once that you don't believe it and then stop bothering everyone else with your skepticism of everything not coming from AMD, especially when rumors have been more reliable than what AMD has said.


----------



## Fr0sty

what you've been doing isnt called discussing something ...

i get it ... you're eager to see bulldozer show what its made of ... but amd wont let anything slip until the launch ... its that way .... for multiple reason that we might never officially know of ... so until then why dont we talk about things that we know are facts and discuss these ...

like say architectural difference between current and bulldozer tech ... and how it might actually work .... or trying to gather info on glofo's 32nm process and trying to look at it with a more intelectual perspective and not that omg i think it will oc to 8ghz on ln2 and whatnot

otherwise its pure garbage posting


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14905854*
> You still haven't explained why there hasn't been one positive "fake" benchmark of BD. They all make BD look pretty inferior. Why is that? You can say it's just an ES or its not full optimized. But seriously how far can optimization take you? I for one am skeptical and will remain such until benchmarks hit at launch. I just feel a lot of people will be left down. This is my educated guess. Everyone is entitled to their own.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14905888*
> Remember 81917 in 3DMark Vantage?
> 
> Also, I love linking to this page. And I love how this link always gets ignored.
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64.html


Would probably still be ignored...
They'd be trollanz.


----------



## Rebelord

Well, one more week until the "suspected" date for some info. If any. Who know's. We'll see in 7 days I guess.


----------



## StraightSixZ

Bulldozer Zambezi Prices,

FX 8150 $ 266.28
Fx 8120 $ 221.73
FX 6100 $ 188.32

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/s.cgi?s_mfg=AMD&s_cat=01100300&s_max=100&order_id=563858000


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14906759*
> trying to look at it with a more intelectual perspective and not that omg i think it will oc to 8ghz on ln2 and whatnot


wait till you see benchmarks


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14907314*
> wait till you see benchmarks


right!!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14907314*
> wait till you see benchmarks


First you have to wait for a processor that doesn't even exist,but how much longer can anyone wait when SB has been out for 8 months now?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14906371*
> Those base clock speeds are probably correct (confirmed with info from GIGABYTE and MSI) but I am not going to trust those (rumoured) turbo core speeds. 8 core CPUs getting the full 900Mhz (not 1Ghz!?) turbo boost while 4 core CPUs get 200Mhz of turbo boost..... it doesn't make sense whatsoever. If it was a stable clock speed limit and the speeds actually lined up it possibly would, but that's not the case at all...
> 
> I'm going to stand by AMD's previous official statements of (at least) 500Mhz all core boost and 1Ghz half-core boost. I think this statement applied to the server CPUs (i.e. more cores), which *possibly* means that the desktop variants will get even higher turbo core than that.


However you want to slice it, the base clock is worthless. It's either going to be at power saving clocks, turbo 1, or turbo 2, it will never run at the "base" clock.

I don't know why they do that, perhaps it's all marketing, "turbo" sounds fast I guess...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14904859*
> And you are the model poster who is mutual in every way, if only we could all be like you. I got bored of looking for more of your mutual quotes, but just look at your avatar and sig. You are completely mutual on the matter, and in no way, shape or form show your favoritism to either company.


Your point Mr. Perfect?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14904636*
> just because netburst made 8ghz and phenom II got 7.5 or so .. doesnt mean that it guarantee's the 32nm parts to oc that well ...
> 
> and 6ghz on water??? where??? ohh maybe intel's sandy bridge ... but sandy isnt bulldozer ....


You tested retail chip?
Nobody tested final chip yet, therefore i wonder why you are so confident ?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14908216*
> You tested retail chip?
> Nobody tested final chip yet, therefore i wonder why you are so confident ?


great now ive got my own logic thrown at me









but the thing is .... how can someone know for sure without testing retail chip ... so my point still stands and you've just backed up my logic

thank you


----------



## Evil Penguin

I'm very concerned about the price.
266 dollars for the top end model?
Will it generally outperform the 2600k?


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14908631*
> I'm very concerned about the price.
> 266 dollars for the top end model?
> Will it generally outperform the 2600k?


This logic was busted multiple times.

Is 3000$ Xeon 3x powerful than 1000$ Xeon? (same family) _Or Gulftown vs SB, if you like.._


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14908340*
> great now ive got my own logic thrown at me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but the thing is .... how can someone know for sure without testing retail chip ... so my point still stands and you've just backed up my logic
> 
> thank you


You still did not aswer my question...


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14908657*
> This logic was busted multiple times.
> 
> Is 3000$ Xeon 3x powerful than 1000$ Xeon? (same family) _Or Gulftown vs SB, if you like.._


Yeah except here's the thing.
They are competing in the same market.

Let's assume the 2600k and the FX 8150 compete performance wise.
Does that mean Intel will have to reduce their price a good 50 dollars or so?
SB is a smaller chip than Zambezi.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14908216*
> You tested retail chip?
> Nobody tested final chip yet, therefore i wonder why you are so confident ?


You have a retail chip? Did you test and find these performance problems you claim?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14908665*
> You still did not aswer my question...


there was no real question .... you said the same thing i just said and you expect me to say something else other then rubbish baseless assumption are suposed to be good without retail silicon in hand ???


----------



## StarDestroyer

its very unlikely that BD will compete core vs core with SB in most things, will 1 module compete vs 1 or 2 SB cores in things??? time will tell


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14908687*
> Yeah except here's the thing.
> They are competing in the same market.
> 
> Let's assume the 2600k and the FX 8150 compete performance wise.
> Does that mean Intel will have to reduce their price a good 50 dollars or so?
> SB is a smaller chip than Zambezi.


Performance expectations based on pricing are wrong.
Example: _Core2 had almost same prices even after nehalem or Westmere release.
_ Market changed significantly, we have finacial crisis that is still in effect. That means people are less interested in expensive goods.
Higher price as a indicator of performance, that worked ten years ago, but today is different.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;14908706*
> You have a retail chip? Did you test and find these performance problems you claim?


Do I claimed those OC values ? http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-475.html#post14904636
You should ask him..


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14908901*
> Performance expectations based on pricing are wrong.
> Example: _Core2 had almost same prices even after nehalem or Westmere release.
> _ Market changed significantly, we have finacial crisis that is still in effect. That means people are less interested in expensive goods.
> Higher price as a indicator of performance, that worked ten years ago, but today is different.
> Do I claimed those OC values ? http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-475.html#post14904636
> You should ask him..


claimed numbers??? me???

you should point that post towards the guys who made those baseless assumption in the first place


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14908687*
> Yeah except here's the thing.
> They are competing in the same market.
> 
> Let's assume the 2600k and the FX 8150 compete performance wise.
> Does that mean Intel will have to reduce their price a good 50 dollars or so?
> SB is a smaller chip than Zambezi.


Intel won't reduce their prices because they do not have to, people buy because of the brand anyway,also because SB is a smaller chip,which would still make SB more successful because it is cheaper to make,yet costs more to the user( if the BD prices aren't fake) Even if Zambezi BD is good,it still costs AMD more to make the processor.


----------



## Fr0sty

amd buys bulldozer dies on a good die basis right??

so the argument about the size of the die having any effect on pricing is moot

it has to do with how many good dies can glofo make and how many did amd purchase ... and how well can they liquidate them at the rumored pricing


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14909203*
> amd buys bulldozer dies on a good die basis right??
> 
> so the argument about the size of the die having any effect on pricing is moot
> 
> it has to do with how many good dies can glofo make and how many did amd purchase ... and how well can they liquidate them at the rumored pricing


Why would they do that?
Guess how they are getting rid of the defective ones.
6 and 4 core variants for now.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14909315*
> Why would they do that?
> *Guess how they are getting rid of the defective ones.
> 6 and 4 core variants for now.*


and what solid evidence have you got to back those claims up ????


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14909423*
> and what solid evidence have you got to back those claims up ????


Do you really think AMD is using fully functional chips with the 6 an 4 core variants? That may be the case with some, but not all.


----------



## StarDestroyer

they probably built the great pyramids quicker than BD


----------



## jck

I think will will know everything for sure...when AMD tells us.


----------



## Hueristic

*W0W*, Another morning wasted on 5 pages of garbage posts.









We need a notification system for when verified info hits this thread, this is ridiculous!

Anyone want to run a list for pm notifications of *REAL* news?


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14909619*
> *W0W*, Another morning wasted on 5 pages of garbage posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need a notification system for when verified info hits this thread, this is ridiculous!
> 
> Anyone want to run a list for pm notifications of *REAL* news?


I know your pain. I came back to more than 5 pages, since I hadn't read it since...Saturday?

I have sort of a way you can do it without the PMs, Hueristic.

Make a link to JF-AMD's all posts link, and scan from there.

Any information that's AMD Official would most likely come from him, whether directly or reference to where AMD has announced it.

That might save you some headaches.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14909619*
> *W0W*, Another morning wasted on 5 pages of garbage posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need a notification system for when verified info hits this thread, this is ridiculous!
> 
> Anyone want to run a list for pm notifications of *REAL* news?


if you want *REAL* News,this isn't the thread for that.you need to go here for real solid info:
Author Archives: John Fruehe

*Disclaimer*: this is just my *Opinion* based on my own *Thoughts*


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14909660*
> if you want *REAL* News,this isn't the thread for that.you need to go here for real solid info:
> Author Archives: John Fruehe
> 
> *Disclaimer*: this is just my *Opinion* based on my own *Thoughts*


This is also a good place to look. AMD's news page.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14909652*
> ...I have sort of a way you can do it without the PMs, Hueristic....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14909660*
> if you want *REAL* News,...
> Author Archives: John Fruehe...


THX guys but I doubt John will announce first on the client side.







Although he should as he's put himself out here to all us Clients side users.

But since he hasn't bothered to answer my one and only question in this thread I'm re-evaluating his worth on OCN.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14909551*
> Do you really think AMD is using fully functional chips with the 6 an 4 core variants? That may be the case with some, but not all.


evidence please

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14909597*
> they probably built the great pyramids quicker than BD


thanks for your contribution to this thread


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14909795*
> evidence please


I want to know your opinion.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;14909838*
> I want to know your opinion.


May I give mine?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14909991*
> May I give mine?


Sure?


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Sure?










Okay. Here's my opinion in regards to core/module count variants:

NOTE: This is just speculation/hypothesis/guessing. Not fact.

Given what happened with their last big processor family (the Phenom II class) and how x2 and x3 CPUs were able to be "unlocked" by BIOS adjustment and this helped boost their sales...I would not say the same thing happening with Zambezi/FX is not out of the question.

- It sells CPUs that otherwise might be trashed because of not QAing well, which increases revenues.
- It means that they have 1 production process rather than multiple, which saves money.

It's financially beneficial for AMD. Heck, I'm an example of how good they sell. I've bought 1 720BE x3, 2 550BE x2s, and 1 555BE x2. 3 of the 4 unlocked to 4 cores.

But, I am going to buy the 8-core 8150 if the benchies look good when they come out compared to my x4 and x6 machines, as well as if the price is reasonable.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Now the question is...
What is considered a functional chip.
One that could be used for any product (4,6,8 cores) or one that doesn't have a major manufacturing defect (8 cores in this case).


----------



## bru_05

I've heard that you need DDR3 1866 with BD. Anyone have an idea of why? Will I be forced to OC my 1600?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14910064*
> Okay. Here's my opinion in regards to core/module count variants:
> 
> NOTE: This is just speculation/hypothesis/guessing. Not fact.
> 
> Given what happened with their last big processor family (the Phenom II class) and how x2 and x3 CPUs were able to be "unlocked" by BIOS adjustment and this helped boost their sales...I would not say the same thing happening with Zambezi/FX is not out of the question.
> 
> - It sells CPUs that otherwise might be trashed because of not QAing well, which increases revenues.
> - It means that they have 1 production process rather than multiple, which saves money.
> 
> It's financially beneficial for AMD. Heck, I'm an example of how good they sell. I've bought 1 720BE x3, 2 550BE x2s, and 1 555BE x2. 3 of the 4 unlocked to 4 cores.
> 
> But, I am going to buy the 8-core 8150 if the benchies look good when they come out compared to my x4 and x6 machines, as well as if the price is reasonable.


You lose revenue doing that.

They killed the 6950 unlocks for the most part because 6950s unlocks kill their 6970 sales.

Why would you pay $70 more for performance you can simply unlock to? Obviously there is no reason to.

Look at the amount of "enthusiasts" on this forum who got a lesser model that unlocked, each of those sales cost AMD money. Not all those people would have bought a 6970, but many would have, and the others would have still bought a 6950 even if it didn't unlock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14910388*
> I've heard that you need DDR3 1866 with BD. Anyone have an idea of why? Will I be forced to OC my 1600?


Bulldozer supports up to 1866, you can go higher if you want (considered overclocking), and you can go lower (still supported). The difference is lower clocked ram is supported and won't be considered "overclocked" or part of the problem if a problem does arise. I believe sandy only supports 1333, but I run mine at 2133, it's just not support and is considered overclocking.


----------



## LBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


I've heard that you need DDR3 1866 with BD. Anyone have an idea of why? Will I be forced to OC my 1600?


BD supports up to 1866. No need to OC if u dont want to.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Bulldozer supports up to 1866, you can go higher if you want (considered overclocking), and you can go lower (still supported). The difference is lower clocked ram is supported and won't be considered "overclocked" or part of the problem if a problem does arise. I believe sandy only supports 1333, but I run mine at 2133, it's just not support and is considered overclocking.


Ok, I thought I read 1866 was "required". I'm not worried about it anymore









Thanks bud.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Now the question is...
What is considered a functional chip. 
One that could be used for any product (4,6,8 cores) or one that doesn't have a major manufacturing defect (8 cores in this case).



They're all functional. Just *how* functional is what varies.

I mean, some people got x2 and x3 chips that unlocked stable with a small voltage increase. Say you get a x8 that is unstable on 2-3 cores at normal voltage, but totally stable on 8 with .125v more. AMD says that doesn't meet their QA for stability, when they rank a chip down from x4 to x2 for that reason.

Question is: is stable at a higher-than-spec'd voltage...stable enough for you?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


I've heard that you need DDR3 1866 with BD. Anyone have an idea of why? Will I be forced to OC my 1600?


Not heard that before.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


You lose revenue doing that.

They killed the 6950 unlocks for the most part because 6950s unlocks kill their 6970 sales.

Why would you pay $70 more for performance you can simply unlock to? Obviously there is no reason to.

Look at the amount of "enthusiasts" on this forum who got a lesser model that unlocked, each of those sales cost AMD money. Not all those people would have bought a 6970, but many would have, and the others would have still bought a 6950 even if it didn't unlock.


But, the lower pricing for lesser chips that *might* unlock...opens up a market of people who want to pay less and possibly get a unlockable chip and are willing to take that risk.

I mean, I bought 550s and the 555 that I did for that reason. I bought 2 550BEs for a little more than the 955BE back in the day. So, I had a spare if my OC blew up a CPU.

Sometimes, a person can't afford the top-of-the-line price...even at AMD's pricing. But if they can get a chip and it *might* unlock to something better and perform almost as good for say 20-30% less...that opens up a whole new market for AMD to sell to.

Plus, people who don't want to risk it...buy the QA'ed CPUs and have assuredness.

Think of it this way. You have only x4 955BE. $200. Anything that fails QA goes in the dumpster.

You have 10,000 buyers... 3,000 of them have $200 for your chip. another 2,000 have $160.

If you sell 3,000 @200 that's 600k

However, if you make the x3 720s known to unlock, and even if 5/6 of your original 3,000 buy the lower priced chip:

you sell [email protected] and 4,[email protected], that's 820k (right?)

You've sold more product based on chance, made some profit off silicon you pressed that otherwise would have been trashed, and you have put your product into the hands of people who (if their chip unlocks well) rave about it and give you free PR.

It's win-win.

Anyways, I hope that Zambezi is like this too. I think it will help to push more units out there, if folks can get a x4 and unlock it to 3 or 4 modules.









But, I'm gonna be on the safe side. I want 8 cores for sure.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14904634*
> I'm sorry to say, but when people act as if their lives depended on BD to release TODAY, then there is something fundamentally wrong with that behavior IMO. Look at all the things that have gone wrong in this thread. I seriously doubt that someone that knew what they wanted, and did not have an immediate need for BD, could wait this out and act professionally and polite, rather than acting like a tech-savvy teenager with a chip on their shoulder. Complaining about the wait in a public forum then going and buying the competitor's product, then returning here to "gloat" about the purchase, tells me that those who have done this have an underlying desire to justify buying the second choice because they lacked the tolerance to hold out for the product they really desired. The behavior displayed here about BD is by far the worst I have ever seen on a forum where competing products are discussed, and it is pretty pathetic IMO.


Maybe people just want to show their dissatisfaction with AMD? Which is relevant since we have a rep. here who can communicate that higher up the ladder? Or maybe they're just frustrated and thought they would vent? Or maybe they forgot that this thread is here for your viewing pleasure and that anything which does not support your particular brand of fanboyism isn't allowed? Anyway, the rate of people jumping ship is relevant to BD more than "U haz clock speeds?" because it really underlies the effects of AMD's tone and secrecy in regards to its community.

Discuss.

Also, a friend told me that when using DDR3 RAM with newer processors its recommended to have the first 3 slots full, even if the GB ends up the same as if you had two higher capacity sticks. True? He mentioned something about the BUS but I wasn't able to follow.


----------



## StarDestroyer

no one here has any idea what BD will do, yet they debate and argue it

has AMD changed the $300 rough price in there FX contest


----------



## Canis-X

No the contest rules still show the verbiage:

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-rules.aspx

Quote:



Top tier prizes: Five (5) AMD FX series eight-core processors. Approximate Retail Value: $300 USD each.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


No the contest rules still show the verbiage:

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-rules.aspx


Dang, they only give out 5 CPU's and 100 dolls? Oh well. Its a give away can't complain.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Dang, they only give out 5 CPU's and 100 dolls? Oh well. Its a give away can't complain.


fingers crossed for one of them sweet ruby dolls,come on lady luck,Daddy needs a new doll


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


fingers crossed for one of them sweet ruby dolls,come on lady luck,Daddy needs a new doll


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Dang, they only give out 5 CPU's and 100 dolls? Oh well. Its a give away can't complain.


I'd rather have a t-shirt or a hat for second place. I'd even take stickers over a doll. First place or bust.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


Also, a friend told me that when using DDR3 RAM with newer processors its recommended to have the first 3 slots full, even if the GB ends up the same as if you had two higher capacity sticks. True? He mentioned something about the BUS but I wasn't able to follow.


I think this was something for SB, I don't think it holds true for BD. But, I'm not sure...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Isn't that AMD event tommorow? Does anyone know if it is just going to be a Fusion event, meaning no Zambezi?


----------



## Hogwasher

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...ng_tips_online

Don't know if this has already been mentioned but here you go


----------



## StarDestroyer

Top tier prizes: Five (5) AMD FX series eight-core processors. Approximate Retail Value: $300 USD each.

although that is close to $260 or whatever pre-orders are listing, since they changed the ending date, figure they would change the price if needed

so SB-e benches are offically out at tom'sH
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,3026.html

still no word on BD release year let alone benches


----------



## RAMP4NT

I hate how when you read the comments on news sites there's always a couple guys going "I'd go intel due to higher single core performance, higher clocks, etc etc etc." I always reply "OMG***BBQ You have the retail sample??!!?!!?" but at this point it's just annoying to see -_-

Also, thank you Bru for your reply. Will share what I learn with further research.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


Also, thank you Bru for your reply. Will share what I learn with further research.


Yeah, I will do some digging too. Stuck actually working at work today ha. But, tomorrow...


----------



## vikingsteve

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hogwasher*


http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...ng_tips_online

Don't know if this has already been mentioned but here you go


Why are they so cheap? An 8-core processor for under $300?

I know Intel likes to gouge prices, but still, $300 or less for an 8-core processor just seems... unusual. Since when has the top-tier tech ever been cheap? Especially at release?


----------



## staryoshi

I want a 4-core model that comes in at 45-65w, please.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vikingsteve*


Why are they so cheap? An 8-core processor for under $300?


It is not really a cheap price. Having it less than $100 is cheap. That price is average in terms of new processors. Intel has their average cpu's priced at $200-$300.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


Top tier prizes: Five (5) AMD FX series eight-core processors. Approximate Retail Value: $300 USD each.

although that is close to $260 or whatever pre-orders are listing, since they changed the ending date, figure they would change the price if needed

so SB-e benches are offically out at tom'sH
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,3026.html

still no word on BD release year let alone benches



They may have included shipping expenses for the $300 (and some other fees). Companies sometimes do that.

Also, AMD probably priced the 8 core processor at <$300 to gain greater marketshare; as more people are likely to buy it than if it was $700 (which means they are actually going to make more profit). Even intel probably makes more money from sales of i5-2500k/i7-2600k than their 990X models. The $1000 price is usually a huge turnoff for the average buyer.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


It is not really a cheap price. Having it less than $100 is cheap. That price is average in terms of new processors. Intel has their average cpu's priced at $200-$300.


Their mainstream "high end" chips are $200-$300.

For what it's worth, they also have a integrated gpu, bulldozer will not.

It would make more sense to compare 1155 to Llano, where Intel wins in cpu power and AMD wins in GPU power.

While bulldozer should "relatively speaking" compete with SBe (2011), since both will use the entire die space for the cpu whereas the tiny 1155 chip has die space being ate up by an underwhelming gpu.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I want to know your opinion.


http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/07/b...ped-last-week/

Next on the list is yield, or lack thereof. The same problems that affect Llano affect Bulldozer, and we took a look at those earlier. The short version is that GloFo has problems with the 32nm SHP process, but they are still best in class. No other foundry can do a 32nm HKMG + strain process, so they are currently the only choice. *AMD pays only per good die, so they are financially insulated from the yields.*

and ill try to find more articles or pieces or articles denoting that subject

but its been out there that amd will be paying on a good die basis at least for bulldozer

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...lobalfoundries

Quote:



The note was issued mainly for the benefit of clients invested in AMD and concluded that the changes at Globalfoundries would have minimal impact on AMD, partly because *AMD recently recut its deal so that it would only pay for good die coming off the 32-nm line.*


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


Maybe people just want to show their dissatisfaction with AMD? Which is relevant since we have a rep. here who can communicate that higher up the ladder? Or maybe they're just frustrated and thought they would vent? Or maybe they forgot that this thread is here for your viewing pleasure and that anything which does not support your particular brand of fanboyism isn't allowed? Anyway, the rate of people jumping ship is relevant to BD more than "U haz clock speeds?" because it really underlies the effects of AMD's tone and secrecy in regards to its community.

Discuss.

Also, a friend told me that when using DDR3 RAM with newer processors its recommended to have the first 3 slots full, even if the GB ends up the same as if you had two higher capacity sticks. True? He mentioned something about the BUS but I wasn't able to follow.



Thats Why I am here. I figured John could at least relay to the higher ups that some of us are feeling so frustrated by AMDs lack of communication to the enthusiast market that we're getting edgy to jump ship. They may or may not care I don't know. What I do know is that the only people that even read this kind of news are IT professionals and enthusiasts.

I don't have anything against John. I just wish they'd send a client side rep to talk to us instead of a server side rep doing it "in his own spare time." We aren't asking for classified details really we just want to know SOMETHING thats based in reality.

What we do know as facts so far.

1 AMD bulldozer will be offered in 4 6 and 8 cores

2 It has been delayed publicly 2 times. (june 1st 60 to 90 day delay and now another)

3 We know SOME of how the architecture is laid out.

4 It will be 32 nm


----------



## radaja

just saw this at XS's










Quote:



Overclocked to 8 - MHz - New Guinness World Record
A bunch of renowned overclockers beats world record with a processor from the next - the bar is raised to as much as 8 - MHz


Translate: Sweclockers tomorrow 15:00 (GMT+1)

maybe they got BD to break the world record









EDIT:i'm adding the comments from Sweclockers FB page
(google translate) "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra"

Quote:



Dennis Pedersen entire 8 Mhz!
7 hours ago Â° 54 people

Oskar Lindberg Trollololl
7 hours ago • 1 person

Christher Lenander Must be a pulskloca they managed to overclock








7 hours ago

John Ginger Beard Seg Sandy Bridge-e to 8xxx mhz?
7 hours ago • 4 people

Kristofer Carlin tÃ¶rrbo!
7 hours ago

Johan Kling 8-what-to MHz? I need to know. Nuuuuu.
7 hours ago Â· 2 people

Mark Otzen "A bunch of renowned overclockers beats world record with a processor from the FUTURE"
Sandy Bridge-E or Bulldozer? I believe in it first.
7 hours ago Â· 2 people

Jerry LÃ¶fvenhaft it feels like something is missing in this article
7 hours ago

Niklas Ala-MÃ¤kelÃ¤, Mark, go to bed: P
7 hours ago

Lord Squeak 8.000 Mhz perhaps? =)
7 hours ago • 1 person

Philip Masek 8.3 MHz?
7 hours ago

Heinrich Af Litmanen heeeeeeeelt sick!
7 hours ago

Shpetim SELMANI fyfan huh tagged husband was out of this! can not wait until tomorrow):
7 hours ago

Fredrik DahlstrÃ¶m Hezt Damn! : O 8 GHz with what? : O Have to Know!
7 hours ago

Oskar Napieraj A bunch of renowned overclockers beats world record with a
processor from the next ... "You can see an A that stands out there. A as in AMD?
7 hours ago Â· 8 PeopleSoft

Max Gebert 800 MHz with a Pentium, wosh!
7 hours ago • 4 people

Oliver Zander FX 8150 Come
7 hours ago

Mikael Johansson, Bulldozer, please!








7 hours ago

Magnus Eriksson Rezpect!
7 hours ago

Linus Hermansson StenhÃ¸j 8 mille MHz
7 hours ago

Daniel Nagel Is frightened because it's Sandy Bridge-E, but had been sick funny if it was the bulldozer. 8 Ghz with liquid nitrogen, so 6GHz with water? : D
7 hours ago Â· 3 people

Richard Tyre Mountain!
7 hours ago

Oskar Eriksson Definitely Bulldozers, one sees a part of the A-et in AMD stick out the bottom left








7 hours ago • 6 people

Jonas Li Intel 8080? : P
7 hours ago Â· 2 people

Johan Skoglund Should be fun o see!
7 hours ago

Tobias HolmÃ©n Interesting!
7 hours ago

Nikola Pantić Is Bulldozers and it takes 6GHz on air so I buy it and do not care that it is inferior to Sandy Bridge.
7 hours ago

Johan Karlsson ofan have the info on my cpu leaked to you too now ..
7 hours ago

Tim AhlÃ©n It is guaranteed to be reached with intel then the picture above is blue and white;>
7 hours ago

Albin Andersson will not Celeron up at 8?
7 hours ago

Petteri Vesterinen Penti 8.5 lr 8.9 I guess on = D
7 hours ago

Patrik Haapasaari 8199.5MHz
7 hours ago

Pontus Remaining Land Regardless of manufacturer, this is very big.
6 hours ago Â· 2 people

Tommi Holmner The picture above seems to be a little askance at a screen, so the colors say probably not so much.
6 hours ago

Jimmy Backlund Sweclockers ♥
6 hours ago

Alexander Ling Torp AMD Athlon X2, it must be! : O
6 hours ago

Simon Baaring Not nice, Sweclockers! How am I supposed to wait until tomorrow?
6 hours ago

Simon Lillqvist mmmm, Guinness ..
6 hours ago

Alexander Ling Torp All of you who can not wait, here is the link.
6 hours ago

Alexander Ross, however, no one managed to find another source on this so we can know today.
6 hours ago

Michael Porttila http://www.filfyren.se/5eb4de results leaked!
5 hours ago

Lucas Emanuel ArnstrÃ¶m

Could it be this belief?
5 hours ago

Jerker Nilsson fun guy (y '
5 hours ago

Miska xit Saarikko If you look carefully where Swecare gang has scribbled over the "future ..." you will see that there is a triangle-shaped tip that sticks out a bit. In order to be Intel, it is really like 'A' then. Guessing at AMD, but yes, we know how it is on AMD's front with "overclocking". You have to add some figures only for it to match Intel's bullies .. : P
5 hours ago

Arvid's Feldt BULLDOZER DELIVERS ... pls `?








5 hours ago

Jerker Nilsson Bulldozer fits better in the first box with imo
5 hours ago

Patrik Bohlin not okay Swecare. Staff -.-
5 hours ago

Alfred Andersson **** **** taggaarrrrrrrrrrrrrr. It HAS To Be Bulldozer .. Can not wait
5 hours ago

Frederick Barthel AMD went out early and said it worked a lot with power consumption and clock frequencies. It may vary because it has shown up a little less performance per clock for now the early indications are correct. Shorter pipline offers well higher clock, but lower performance per clock?
5 hours ago

Daniel Jonsson overclock the TI-84! Or wait, it rolls on at the 15 MHz !!!!!!!
5 hours ago

Niklas StrÃ¶mberg stable? =)
4 hours ago

David Hansson 8273!
3 hours ago

Nils Norrby current recordet located at 8308 or whatever it is now huh .. so either it's ivy-bridge or there is a bulldozer!

I hope and believe Bulldozer when the text looks more likely out =) but remains to be seen tomorrow
3 hours ago

Sebastian NorbÃ¤ck Alarm set for 15:00 pm tomorrow


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/07/b...ped-last-week/

Next on the list is yield, or lack thereof. The same problems that affect Llano affect Bulldozer, and we took a look at those earlier. The short version is that GloFo has problems with the 32nm SHP process, but they are still best in class. No other foundry can do a 32nm HKMG + strain process, so they are currently the only choice. *AMD pays only per good die, so they are financially insulated from the yields.*

and ill try to find more articles or pieces or articles denoting that subject

but its been out there that amd will be paying on a good die basis at least for bulldozer

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...lobalfoundries


"good die basis" is quite vague. 
What is good?
Are they paying for fully functional chips or partially functional?


----------



## Nocturin

Ambiguous much?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *staryoshi*


I want a 4-core model that comes in at 45-65w, please.










Trinity with BD cores might have a 65W TDP.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/07/b...ped-last-week/

Next on the list is yield, or lack thereof. The same problems that affect Llano affect Bulldozer, and we took a look at those earlier. The short version is that GloFo has problems with the 32nm SHP process, but they are still best in class. No other foundry can do a 32nm HKMG + strain process, so they are currently the only choice. *AMD pays only per good die, so they are financially insulated from the yields.*

and ill try to find more articles or pieces or articles denoting that subject

but its been out there that amd will be paying on a good die basis at least for bulldozer

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-n...lobalfoundries


Interesting find








If AMD is only paying for a useable die,then this is most likely the reason for some of the delays.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


just saw this at XS's










Translate: Sweclockers tomorrow 15:00 (GMT+1)

maybe they got BD to break the world record










For all we know,this could be some Intel chip reaching 8--- Mhz.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


For all we know,this could be some Intel chip reaching 8--- Mhz.


It wont matter anyway,i just reread JF's Bulldozer Pre-launch FAQ and i guess it wont count
















Im just kidding JF









Quote:



*Q. I saw a world record OC on xyz website. Is that how bulldozer will OC?*:A. No. All OC's posted before launch will "NOT" be representative of actual BD OC's.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


"good die basis" is quite vague. 
What is good?
Are they paying for fully functional chips or partially functional?


who knows really what is amd's deffinition of good die and the fineprint of their contract ...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Interesting find








.



no problem


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


For all we know,this could be some Intel chip reaching 8--- Mhz.


Maybe it's 8 Mhz!! Kickin' it old school!

I'm more interested in their "historic" announcement tomorrow night...

What could be more historic than BD for them?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


just saw this at XS's










Translate: Sweclockers tomorrow 15:00 (GMT+1)

maybe they got BD to break the world record










Probably a NetBurst-based Celeron


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


Maybe it's 8 Mhz!! Kickin' it old school!

I'm more interested in their "historic" announcement tomorrow night...

What could be more historic than BD for them?


Athlon 64 and Athlon FX,it kicked Intel's butt(even their $1,000 chips),it overclocked less but was faster clock for clock.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14913600*
> Athlon 64 and Athlon FX,it kicked Intel's butt(even their $1,000 chips),it overclocked less but was faster clock for clock.


Yeah I meant old school as in 8Mhz old...
But, as of right now, what does AMD have that's more historic than BD?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14913762*
> Yeah I meant old school as in 8Mhz old...
> But, as of right now, what does AMD have that's more historic than BD?


He answered correctly...

AMD doesn't have much positive history in the CPU game to go by since the old FX/64 days







.

GPU's now: nVidia and AMD/ATI have been trading blows for a few production cycles, which is more historic


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14913859*
> He answered correctly...
> 
> AMD doesn't have much positive history in the CPU game to go by since the old FX/64 days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> GPU's now: nVidia and AMD/ATI have been trading blows for a few production cycles, which is more historic


I worded it wrong again. What does AMD have in their pipeline that is more "historic" than BD? Does that make sense? Unless it's a Trinity announcement. My comment had nothing to do with AMD vs Intel or AMD vs Nvidia. Strictly from an AMD standpoint. What is more historic than a new processor on a new archictecture? 7xxx series GPUs wouldn't be as historic...IMO.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *staryoshi;14912616*
> I want a 4-core model that comes in at 45-65w, please.


Yeah haha, that'll happen.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14914471*
> Yeah haha, that'll happen.


What about a 2 core model,or a lower clocked 4 core for HTPC?
The BD core based APU,aka Trinity may have a 65. w 4 core.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14913941*
> I worded it wrong again. What does AMD have in their pipeline that is more "historic" than BD? Does that make sense? Unless it's a Trinity announcement. My comment had nothing to do with AMD vs Intel or AMD vs Nvidia. Strictly from an AMD standpoint. What is more historic than a new processor on a new archictecture? 7xxx series GPUs wouldn't be as historic...IMO.


In that sense you are right,BD is one of AMD's most historic architectures if not the most historic CPU ever from AMD.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14914471*
> Yeah haha, that'll happen.


ask your cousin if it can happen


----------



## Obakemono

I have this on the way, and when BD hits the Egg, I'm getting the FX-8150. SCORE!


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14914763*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have this on the way, and when BD hits the Egg, I'm getting the FX-8150. SCORE!


Nice MB!! Gigabyte is my Favorite MB maker!!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14914763*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have this on the way, and when BD hits the Egg, I'm getting the FX-8150. SCORE!


Awesome,but no UEFI.
Notsureifwant.JPG


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14914651*
> ask your cousin if it can happen


I just reported this post, I suggest you give it a rest.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14914646*
> What about a 2 core model,or a lower clocked 4 core for HTPC?
> The BD core based APU,aka Trinity may have a 65. w 4 core.
> 
> In that sense you are right,BD is one of AMD's most historic architectures if not the most historic CPU ever from AMD.


Lower clocked yes, but not 3+ GHz.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14914929*
> Awesome,but no UEFI.
> Notsureifwant.JPG


Why do you need this anyway?


----------



## radaja

AMD's Twitter

"Our adrenaline is pumping from holding in our BIG secret! We'll be spilling the beans tmrw at #IDF2011. Stay tuned!"

http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113380895834128385


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14915027*
> I just reported this post, I suggest you give it a rest.
> 
> Lower clocked yes, but not 3+ GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need this anyway?


Faster boot times,easier control of the menus,no more having to clear the whole CMOS when a OC is unstable,most if not every other motherboard manufacturer has UEFI on the 990 series boards. The Crosshair V with the same features,has UEFI,and also costs less than the UD7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14915094*
> AMD's Twitter
> 
> "Our adrenaline is pumping from holding in our BIG secret! We'll be spilling the beans tmrw at #IDF2011. Stay tuned!"
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113380895834128385


OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING! I hope this means a complete NDA lift tomorrow so reviewers can release benches.
Wait,AMD is spilling the beans at a Intel Developer Forum? Lol what?


----------



## Benz

Oh... Thanks for explaining, I might as well give you a +rep for that.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14915099*
> Faster boot times,easier control of the menus,no more having to clear the whole CMOS when a OC is unstable,most if not every other motherboard manufacturer has UEFI on the 990 series boards. The Crosshair V with the same features,has UEFI,and also costs less than the UD7.
> 
> OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING! I hope this means a complete NDA lift tomorrow so reviewers can release benches.
> Wait,AMD is spilling the beans at a Intel Developer Forum? Lol what?


i just hope its not them announcing that intel has taken them over and they are now the:
*Intamled corporation
antimeld corporation
dentimal corporation
mediltan corporation
tamlined corporation
linedamt corporation*


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14915134*
> Oh... Thanks for explaining, I might as well give you a +rep for that.


Thanks,but I was just pretty much giving what might possibly be selling points for a UEFI board,the Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7 is great board,but I wonder why they are not using UEFI. But,most enthusiasts can use a BIOS system just fine,so like you said a UEFI isn't always needed.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14915099*
> 
> OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING! I hope this means a complete NDA lift tomorrow so reviewers can release benches.
> Wait,AMD is spilling the beans at a Intel Developer Forum? Lol what?


that would be epic LOL if it owns intel in their own face :O


----------



## Chico212

"We're getting settled in for #IDF2011 & can't contain our excitement! We've got news that will knock you off your feet. #AMD"
https://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113403533834985472


----------



## emersonsc

I'm putting $20 down that its another delay


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14914929*
> Awesome,but no UEFI.
> Notsureifwant.JPG


I though Gigabyte was going to do a BIOS update that would update that mobo to UEFI? I'm not too worried about it anyway, as long as the BIOS is not like my Foxconn boards that I have. Talk about a cryptic bios.......


----------



## Rebelord

Hopefully we get some good news tomm.
I myself just picked up a 990FXA-UD7, got it from Sin for a excellent price, so was worth it for me. Plus I will be running crossfire still. Which gives my 4890s some more space to breath, and the future cards I'll be getting. Just waiting for more info about the 7xxx series.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebelord;14915533*
> Hopefully we get some good news tomm.
> I myself just picked up a 990FXA-UD7, got it from Sin for a excellent price, so was worth it for me. Plus I will be running crossfire still. Which gives my 4890s some more space to breath, and the future cards I'll be getting. Just waiting for more info about the 7xxx series.


Same here about the 7xxx cards. I was going to go with 2 6950s, up from my 6870s, but the difference between them is more closer than what I could prolly get with the 7xxx cards.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14915094*
> AMD's Twitter
> 
> "Our adrenaline is pumping from holding in our BIG secret! We'll be spilling the beans tmrw at #IDF2011. Stay tuned!"
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113380895834128385


+Rep for you sir, thank you for sharing


----------



## nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14915369*
> I'm putting $20 down that its another delay










please do not tempt fate


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14915369*
> I'm putting $20 down that its another delay


I'll put $50 down that AMD crashes the IDF conference.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14915650*
> I'll put $50 down that AMD crashes the IDF conference.


You're on. I highly doubt that they'll announce a delay at an Intel event. I'll give you my shipping address tomorrow.


----------



## xd_1771

*I hope you guys aren't serious with your bets, the OCN TOS clearly states that:*
Quote:


> You are NOT allowed to:
> 
> Directly or indirectly profit from your relationship with the site and the people you meet here, now or in the future


No sense in AMD delaying it at an Intel conference







I think the delays are over though.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Um. What is IDF?


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14915765*
> Um. What is IDF?


Intel developer forum. Basically an Intel conference.


----------



## M5ilencer

Is Bulldozer going to utilize it's cores in games such as BFBC2 and BF3? Because my quad core does that and the six doesn't so why would the 8? I know 8 cores will be awesome it will be like adding a SSD to speed up boot times.

I just don't think its needed, I'd get the new socket and 8 core with integrated gpu as a upgrade if it beats INTEL. My Motherboard is already AM3+ thanks to MSI Bios update but overclocking anything with over 4 cores is going to fry it!


----------



## davieg

AMD announcement at IDF:

Glo Fo solved their yield problems they gave us this web link....http://www.intel.com/technology/manufacturing/index.htm.








Only problem is we now have promised Intel our integrated graphics.


----------



## xd_1771

^ AMD has 6 core and 4 core variants...
Thing about the 8 core is that it doesn't necessarily mean you won't get any better 4 core performance out of it. Turbo Boost makes for excellent 4 core CPU speed/performance. Other reasons an 8 core may be good for gaming even if programs can't use all the cores: the fact that when only one integer core in a module is active that there is higher IPC/per-core performance.

davieg: AMD graphics in Intel CPUs!?
What!?







What next? NVIDIA graphics in AMD APUs?


----------



## davieg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14915882*
> 
> davieg: AMD graphics in Intel CPUs!?
> What!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What next? NVIDIA graphics in AMD APUs?


Well it makes as much sense as a big AMD announcement at IDF









Suppose it would be a good "Fusion" of companies though









PS if this is even close to being right I'm editing the smiley's out and making out I was serious, thats not cheating is it.

2nd guess is they will just steal a Bulldozer and force their way in through the main entrance as they're not even listed as attending.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davieg;14915867*
> AMD announcement at IDF:
> 
> Glo Fo solved their yield problems they gave us this web link....http://www.intel.com/technology/manufacturing/index.htm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is we now have promised Intel our integrated graphics.


Intel can use AMD for their IGP's?








Don't do it AMD it's a trap!


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M5ilencer;14915782*
> Is Bulldozer going to utilize it's cores in games such as BFBC2 and BF3? Because my quad core does that and the six doesn't so why would the 8? I know 8 cores will be awesome it will be like adding a SSD to speed up boot times.
> 
> I just don't think its needed, I'd get the new socket and 8 core with integrated gpu as a upgrade if it beats INTEL. My Motherboard is already AM3+ thanks to MSI Bios update but overclocking anything with over 4 cores is going to fry it!


Thats weird cause my current setup below does utilize all 6 cores in BFBC2


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davieg;14915913*
> Well it makes as much sense as a big AMD announcement at IDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose it would be a good "Fusion" of companies though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS if this is even close to being right I'm editing the smiley's out and making out I was serious, thats not cheating is it.
> 
> 2nd guess is they will just steal a Bulldozer and force their way in through the main entrance as *they're not even listed as attending.*


I don't think AMD is going to attend IDF, lol. But it seems they have planned their BIG announcement for the same day in the same city. See the flyer below.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14915094*
> AMD's Twitter
> 
> "Our adrenaline is pumping from holding in our BIG secret! We'll be spilling the beans tmrw at #IDF2011. Stay tuned!"
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113380895834128385


Awesome, AMD coming to crash Intel's development conference.

If AMD takes this guy's advice, that could be literal.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality;14916440*
> It would be funny at IDF2011.. at the big announcement they drive up in a bulldozer, and say "sorry we're late".


----------



## 2010rig

LOL, what is going on in this thread today?

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23IDF2011

*@AMD_Unprocessed AMD*
We're getting settled in for #IDF2011 & can't contain our excitement! We've got news that will knock you off your feet. #AMD

*@intel_jim Jim St. Leger*
Is there a social media term when someone (e.g. a competitor) uses your event hashtag to capture eyeballs? Flattered maybe? #IDF2011

Why is AMD making announcements at IDF?

They've had all year to "knock us off our feet"


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14916529*
> LOL, what is going on in this thread today?
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23IDF2011
> 
> intel_jim Jim St. Leger
> Is there a social media term when someone (e.g. a competitor) uses your event hashtag to capture eyeballs? Flattered maybe? #IDF2011
> 
> Why is AMD making announcements at IDF?
> 
> They've had all year to "knock us off our feet"


That is too funny!!


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14916529*
> LOL, what is going on in this thread today?
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23IDF2011
> 
> *@AMD_Unprocessed AMD*
> We're getting settled in for #IDF2011 & can't contain our excitement! We've got news that will knock you off your feet. #AMD
> 
> *@intel_jim Jim St. Leger*
> Is there a social media term when someone (e.g. a competitor) uses your event hashtag to capture eyeballs? Flattered maybe? #IDF2011
> 
> Why is AMD making announcements at IDF?
> 
> They've had all year to "knock us off our feet"


As I said a few posts up, it seems they have timed their announcement to match IDF, but I very much doubt that announcement will actually take place at the conference itself. Plus, I don't know if this has anything to do with FX. AMD probably wants to take a shot at Intel over their poor graphics solutions (i.e. the BIG new is about Llano/Trinity).


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14916529*
> LOL, what is going on in this thread today?
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23IDF2011
> 
> *@AMD_Unprocessed AMD*
> We're getting settled in for #IDF2011 & can't contain our excitement! We've got news that will knock you off your feet. #AMD
> 
> *@intel_jim Jim St. Leger*
> Is there a social media term when someone (e.g. a competitor) uses your event hashtag to capture eyeballs? Flattered maybe? #IDF2011
> 
> Why is AMD making announcements at IDF?
> 
> They've had all year to "knock us off our feet"


Dont believe things on the internet,i just re-read JF's Bulldozer Pre-launch FAQ and came across this one...........
Quote:


> *Q. If AMD makes an annoncement at IDF that "knocks you off your feet",should i just stay seated?*
> A. OK, this is not a good question, but enough people ask questions like this,so here goes,AMD is a 40 year old company that makes GPU's and CPU's,and not once have either of those products knocked anyone off their feet.so no you don't need to stay seated


I kid,i kid.........


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14916707*
> As I said a few posts up, it seems they have timed their announcement to match IDF, but I very much doubt that announcement will actually take place at the conference itself. Plus, I don't know if this has anything to do with FX. AMD probably wants to take a shot at Intel over their poor graphics solutions (i.e. the BIG new is about Llano/Trinity).


ahhh I see.

I wish AMD would take a shot at Intel for the CPU performance instead.









Only reason they have good graphics is because they acquired ATI, otherwise, I wonder what type of GPU AMD would've came up with on their own.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14916758*
> ahhh I see.
> 
> I wish AMD would take a shot at Intel for the CPU performance instead.


As do I. Judging by the state of things (rumors, low prices, etc) I am 90% sure that my new rig will be a 2600K and Maximus IV extreme-z. AMD has until the updated contest end date (10/12) to launch FX or they will have lost another loyal supporter. As much as I rather buy AMD, I am not going to put a PH II level chip in my new rig nor (due to various reasons) am I going to wait very much longer for launch.

That said, I am an optimistic guy so I am still holding out hope for a big surprise....


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14916479*
> Awesome, AMD coming to crash Intel's development conference.
> 
> If AMD takes this guy's advice, that could be literal.


maybe they are going to IDF with a buldozer to destroy this thing(whatever the hell it is)
Quote:


> *SiMan* - "The Intelligent Connected Solutions Man"
> ***Our friend will be 18 feet tall & will be a wonderful collaborative activity


heres a map of the pathway the Bulldozer should take
just follow the blue line AMD


----------



## 2010rig

Another day, another Fake Bulldozer benchmark.


----------



## Absauston

...and the big announcement is our Twitter account has been hacked.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

sorry guys,
when is this announcement supposed to happen again?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;14917435*
> sorry guys,
> when is this announcement supposed to happen again?


tomorrow sometime


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14916757*
> Dont believe things on the internet,i just re-read JF's Bulldozer Pre-launch FAQ and came across this one...........
> 
> I kid,i kid.........


Radeon 9000 series (That was ATI before AMD bought them to be fair, though), HD4xx0 series, HD6xx0 series and the Radeon x1950XT did.

As did the AMD K6, Athlon, Athlon64.

I know it's a joke, I just don't like misinformation.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14917316*
> Another day, another Fake Bulldozer benchmark.


I have another one. This one is better than yours and therefore it is less fake!


















8 core Phenom II running at 3.6 GHz could have score 8,61.
6,93 makes Bulldozer having 20% worse per core performance than Phenom.
That is the case when all cores are fully loaded and each two cores use the same resources.

When 4 or less threads would be used (or more less intensive threads), per core performance should be higher.


----------



## StarDestroyer

CF capable AM3+ 990 boards start cheaper than I thought


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14915758*
> *I hope you guys aren't serious with your bets, the OCN TOS clearly states that:*
> 
> No sense in AMD delaying it at an Intel conference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the delays are over though.










NO.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14909203*
> amd buys bulldozer dies on a good die basis right??
> 
> so the argument about the size of the die having any effect on pricing is moot
> 
> it has to do with how many good dies can glofo make and how many did amd purchase ... and how well can they liquidate them at the rumored pricing


Yes, this news is from beginning this year, not new

Today AMD pays GloFo for good dies (BD), in future it will go "back to normal" - paying for whole wafer.
That means AMD can sell BD lower and still have good financial results. Partially good dies will be FX4000 or FX6000 series
I told that expecting performance based on pricing is wrong


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14918783*
> I have another one. This one is better than yours and therefore it is less fake!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 core Phenom II running at 3.6 GHz could have score 8,61.
> 6,93 makes Bulldozer having 20% worse per core performance than Phenom.
> That is the case when all cores are fully loaded and each two cores use the same resources.
> 
> When 4 or less threads would be used (or more less intensive threads), per core performance should be higher.


Give it a rest... This is totally fake!!!


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14919834*
> Give it a rest... This is totally fake!!!












I hope you know the basic rule of reasoning:

*What was not PROVEN FALSE, remains possible.*

I presented numbers, that can be wrong or can be right.

You brought nothing at all.
If you have nothing, please remain silent.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14916529*
> LOL, what is going on in this thread today?
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23IDF2011
> 
> *@AMD_Unprocessed AMD*
> We're getting settled in for #IDF2011 & can't contain our excitement! We've got news that will knock you off your feet. #AMD
> 
> *@intel_jim Jim St. Leger*
> Is there a social media term when someone (e.g. a competitor) uses your event hashtag to capture eyeballs? Flattered maybe? #IDF2011
> 
> Why is AMD making announcements at IDF?
> 
> They've had all year to "knock us off our feet"


When I saw the post that AMD has something big for IDF. I thought WOW...AMD is going to crash Intel's party and they are going to make Intel Cry









[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPHIocuPF88[/ame]


----------



## Roedi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*











I hope you know the basic rule of reasoning:

*What was not PROVEN FALSE, remains possible.*

I presented numbers, that can be wrong or can be right.

You brought nothing at all.
If you have nothing, please remain silent.


The guy that published those benchmarks allready said he faked them , if im correct







Tbho its not the first time.


----------



## hokiealumnus

AMD Bulldozer Breaks CPU Frequency World Record

Quote:



8.429GHz on liquid Helium. 5GHz on air. High voltage tolerance. Great frequency scaling. No cold bug.


----------



## Tator Tot

Official News Discussion Thread; please don't make others. They'll just be closed and or moved.


----------



## liberato87

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...king_preview/1


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...king_preview/1


























Well over 8000







Nice work amd


----------



## ogboba

AMD overclocks Bulldozer to 8.429GHz

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...-to-8-429ghz/1

Just need to wait until it comes out now!


----------



## Nocturin

Not bad for an entrance.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14920465*
> AMD Bulldozer Breaks CPU Frequency World Record


----------



## Nocturin

So the previous record was held by netburst?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14920875*
> So the previous record was held by netburst?


Yup
http://hwbot.org/benchmark/cpu_frequency/
Smashed it.


----------



## kevink82

Guess that was the big announcement? I personally would like a water cooling rig and a benchmark results.... and of course a release date....

But hey nice clock should get a few xtreme clockers excited just not an average joe like me...


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


Guess that was the big announcement? I personally would like a water cooling rig and a benchmark results.... and of course a release date....

But hey nice clock should get a few xtreme clockers excited just not an average joe like me...


They did say 5+ on ambient and near 6 on SS. How that translates to performance....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Massman*


Okay, this is good.

- 5GHz on air
- upto 5.5GHz with watercooling
- 4 out of 7 chips do 8G+ on LN2


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevink82;14920976*
> Guess that was the big announcement? I personally would like a water cooling rig and a benchmark results.... and of course a release date....
> 
> But hey nice clock should get a few xtreme clockers excited just not an average joe like me...


Agreed. Fantastic showing for the chip to extreme overclock.

Now, let's see some benchmarks from a rig with 8GB and a Corsair H80 that's OCed on all 8 cores.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14921003*
> Agreed. Fantastic showing for the chip to extreme overclock.
> 
> Now, let's see some benchmarks from a rig with 8GB and a Corsair H80 that's OCed on all 8 cores.


When our full review comes out, it will have been run on a half-way decent water loop (EK HF Supreme, Swiftech MCR320, MCP35x). Oh, and LN2 of course...wouldn't be any fun without LN2 results.


----------



## kevink82

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


They did say 5+ on ambient and near 6 on SS. How that translates to performance....


Not saying much? For all we know llano can reach 5 gig...... hows bout some prime95 10+ hr runs keke...


----------



## Disturbed117

Just remember people phenom II went to 7+ghz
Now all we need are some benchmarks.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


Just remember people phenom II went to 7+ghz
Now all we need are some benchmarks.


True. Now can they give us a release date?

Like I said before, when AMD has something to boast about they're not afraid to flaunt it!

5 GHZ on air sounds great, now I just want to know BD's IPC.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...king_preview/1


actors, fake


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


When our full review comes out, it will have been run on a half-way decent water loop (EK HF Supreme, Swiftech MCR320, MCP35x). Oh, and LN2 of course...wouldn't be any fun without LN2 results.










er...umm...if I knew anything about custom loops, I might be able to decode your parts and what they mean.









I'll be glad to read your reviews. I want benchies from the real world, though. Custom built loops are often better than the pre-assembled LCSes like Corsair, Antec, TT, et al. I wanna get a feel for what my H50 (that I stripped off my i7 rig) is gonna do with the FX.

No offense meant at all. I am just anxious to see a "I slapped a cheap Corsair LCS on it and this is what happened" type of review...since that's what I'm going to be doing.

I just gotta scrape the pennies together now, and decide on the mobo to mount that bad-boy in when I get it.


----------



## Canis-X

Interested to see what I can get it to with my ss phase. Mine is tuned to -60C not connected to anything and would run my 1090T at -55C idle at 1.48 vcore. It would raise to about -52C when loaded at that, so hopefully I will get a good chip and see some good scaling. Exciting times for sure!!


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


er...umm...if I knew anything about custom loops, I might be able to decode your parts and what they mean.









I'll be glad to read your reviews. I want benchies from the real world, though. Custom built loops are often better than the pre-assembled LCSes like Corsair, Antec, TT, et al. I wanna get a feel for what my H50 (that I stripped off my i7 rig) is gonna do with the FX.

No offense meant at all. I am just anxious to see a "I slapped a cheap Corsair LCS on it and this is what happened" type of review...since that's what I'm going to be doing.

I just gotta scrape the pennies together now, and decide on the mobo to mount that bad-boy in when I get it.










Err...my bad. It's a very simple water loop, CPU block, pump, middle-of-the-line radiator. You can see it in use with the system that will be running BD in this photo from the Cross V review. It's a modest loop, I promise.


----------



## linkin93

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ld-record.html

8.429GHz.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ld-record.html

8.429GHz.










Its already been posted


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


Its already been posted










It's awesome enough to post twice


----------



## snoball

Maybe BD and BF3 have a tied launch? Seems as the Oct. 25th mark approaches both ends have more and more info.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14915094*
> AMD's Twitter
> 
> "Our adrenaline is pumping from holding in our BIG secret! We'll be spilling the beans tmrw at #IDF2011. Stay tuned!"
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed/status/113380895834128385


So, are we in for more news later today from IDF and also from there AMD Fusion Cocktail event?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It's from chew*, isn't that the same guy that said the performance was terrible?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It's from chew*, isn't that the same guy that said the performance was terrible?


He never said that.....


----------



## BigCactus

Sure glad I didn't go Sandy Bridge after all these revelations about Bulldozer over the 8GHZ barrier. A lot of rumors have been squashed today.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


He never said that.....


He's under NDA, so of course he never directly said anything.

I know LN2 is your thing, the long netburst cores of bulldozer on 32nm do well and show no cold bug that I can see. Yet AMD released this, why no wprime or any other sort of benchmark?

MHz doesn't mean jack unless we know what it can do per cycle.

So again I ask, why does a company state they never release anything, yet when they have something that is actually decent it's all over the internet and they show it at a press conference? First we see Llano before launch, now we're seeing silly MHz results? Is that all they have to be proud of.. because that's how I take it based on their previous track record.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Sure glad I didn't go Sandy Bridge after all these revelations about Bulldozer over the 8GHZ barrier. A lot of rumors have been squashed today.










Are you going to work on your computer while filling the LN2 pot? No? Then ignore it, because it doesn't matter. The only thing that mattered there was possibly phase for the extreme people and the closed water loop.


----------



## sunnyFTW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Sure glad I didn't go Sandy Bridge after all these revelations about Bulldozer over the 8GHZ barrier. A lot of rumors have been squashed today.










^THIS^

btw still Sandy Bridge users wont stop TROLLING in every BD thread


----------



## jck

*just sits back and waits for the official release from AMD...*









I keep tellin you guys. AMD would not have hyped up the CPU with the FX brand if they didn't know something from initial testing.

If this chip can hit 5GHz on a low-end water cooling solution and it's got good horsepower...I'll be into a chip as soon as I can be.


----------



## sunnyFTW

btw the chip they used is C2 stepping once C3 comes out


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sunnyFTW*


^THIS^

btw still Sandy Bridge users wont stop TROLLING in every BD thread


Well I for one, hope it does work out well for all you AMD fans









It's looking good today, for BD


----------



## BallaTheFeared

If MHz was as important as you believe it was, netburst and the Pent 4 would have crushed AMD's lowered clocked Athlons.

I hope AMD does deliver, at those prices I could afford to build another system... No reason to be bias at all over a piece of sand.

However I find it suspect that a company that doesn't release information before launch constantly releases information they feel provides hype to their product.

We saw them do it with Llano, running multiple programs. However the only cpu bench they ran during that demo was superpi and it was quite a bit slower than the sandy they were comparing it to.

I see this as simple marketing to combat the rumors that have been floating around, the problem is MHz doesn't mean anything and nothing showing the actual speed of Bulldozer was present. CPUz validations aren't something I worry about, however it strikes me as highly suspect that nothing else was presented besides exactly that whereas with Llano they demonstrated it running multiple programs, even a common benchmark.

IMO this is a black hole marketing attempt aimed at providing some much needed positive attention towards bulldozer, however MHz means very little without knowing what the chip can do per cycle and they conveniently forgot to do anything except validate cpuz while at this press conference.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It's from chew*, isn't that the same guy that said the performance was terrible?


he just said in his opinion BD is more like a native 4core/8t cpu
and also look at where its priced to get an idea on performance

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chew**


I see it as a 4 core part that can execute up to 8 threads, An engineer at AMD while I was there tended to agree with me, but what does he know.........
We obviously have members here that know more about BD than AMD.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *chew**


Stop getting hung up on "CORES"

Do a price/performance compare of 8 thread sandy to 8 threads BD.

So we know 2600K = $279, we have suggested prices of 8150 at $300

How much performance does that come out to, it most likely close.

Then compare to 6 thread thuban performance that we have figures for.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


He's under NDA, so of course he never directly said anything.


Well there you have it, stop reading into everything to much. TWKR.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Are you going to work on your computer while filling the LN2 pot? No? Then ignore it, because it doesn't matter. The only thing that mattered there was possibly phase for the extreme people and the closed water loop.


If you consider an Antec Kuhler 620 push/pull config on bulldozer a closed water loop, then I guess I'd be extreme because that's what I planned on if a matx board is released







!

Guess you missed the part about 5ghz being commonplace on Air too









"In passing conversation, Brian and Sami mentioned doing 5Ghz on air running fully multi-threaded benchmarks."

http://www.overclockers.com/amd-fx-b...-world-record/

Please don't hate on BD, embrace faster and better technology. This is great for competition and us consumers!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Well there you have it, stop reading into everything to much. TWKR.


I don't believe I read anything anything too much, quotes are right above your post.

Bulldozer beat a LGA775 Celeron by about 120MHz, and a Pent 4 by about 150MHz... Those two processors have one thing in common, they suck... I'm not saying bulldozer does, I'm just saying MHz means nothing without knowing what it can do per cycle.

@BigCactus I'm not hating on Bulldozer, I'm just stating things I as see them unfold. Please stop making it a bias affair, it's a piece of sand that doesn't love you, it can't love you, it doesn't have feelings.


----------



## sunnyFTW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't believe I read anything anything too much, quotes are right above your post.

Bulldozer beat a LGA775 Celeron by about 120MHz, and a Pent 4 by about 150MHz... Those two processors have one thing in common, they suck... I'm not saying bulldozer does, I'm just saying MHz means nothing without knowing what it can do per cycle.

@BigCactus I'm not hating on Bulldozer, I'm just stating things I as see them unfold. Please stop making it a bias affair, it's a piece of sand that doesn't love you, it can't love you, it doesn't have feelings.


they didnt suck at the time of there release


----------



## radaja

*Congratulations JF-AMD 
and to the OCer's and to everyone 
involved at AMD for this new WR!!!*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Their, and yes they did - Pent 4 got creamed by AMD and the Celron was a low end 755 chip that was quite a bit slower clock for clock than higher end core2 chips.










Pretty slow, even with all those MHz.


----------



## Disturbed117

I just want some benchmarks








And hopefully some good ones. just give us something amd. Its getting harder and harder to wait...


----------



## Hueristic

Well I guess JF does not have to answer my question any longer.


----------



## dafour

I dont get why they can push the chip to 8.4,but not showing us a benchmark.


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dafour*


I dont get why they can push the chip to 8.4,but not showing us a benchmark.


Marketing trick ?!?


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeBeTrollin'*


Marketing trick ?!?


Yeah it's all marketing. They want to increase hype and anticipation. The funny thing is when it gets delayed some people become frustrated. Then amd wonders why there's so much crying


----------



## sunnyFTW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeBeTrollin'*


Marketing trick ?!?


it may be just a sneak pick


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dafour*


I dont get why they can push the chip to 8.4,but not showing us a benchmark.


Dude IDF is occuring right now. It's to draw away attention. Warranted or not (if you're an AMD/Intel fanboy, nothing's changing your mind at this point), it's working fairly well.

This is like the supposed "ugly" UMD jerseys. People are talking about it, then AMD is doing its job just fine.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


In that sense you are right,BD is one of AMD's most historic architectures if not the most historic CPU ever from AMD.


Yeah that's why I'm interested in their announcement tonight. What else could it be??


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Their, and yes they did - Pent 4 got creamed by AMD and the Celron was a low end 755 chip that was quite a bit slower clock for clock than higher end core2 chips.










Pretty slow, even with all those MHz.


So what your saying is that history might repeat itself eh...and you just so happened to have a Sandy Bridge CPU...but are not biased of course?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14922536*
> Yeah that's why I'm interested in their announcement tonight. What else could it be??


I wouldn't get my hopes up. It is a Fusion event not Vision, do like me and be mellow about it, wait for them to announce and if it is regarding BD then you can be like


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


So what your saying is that history might repeat itself eh...and you just so happened to have a Sandy Bridge CPU...but are not biased of course?










And look at the club he is part in.

The 4GHZ club for his AMD CPU.

People always judge others by their sig rig around here, and fail to see the truth in what they're saying.

Who cares about a MHZ world record, where the previous holder was a 5 year OLD Celeron, how many people use that CPU for gaming, rendering, folding today?

I'm more interested in BD's IPC, and how well does BD perform in real world? That's far more important IMO.

I don't really care what it can do with Liquid Helium, since that's not every day use.

Does BD's performance at 5GHZ on air => to a 2600K at 5GHZ?

That's a far more important question yet to be answered, and of course that's not what AMD is boasting about right now.

Didn't JF-AMD say that they don't reveal ANY info about clocks, speeds, benchmarks, etc, BEFORE launch, but conveniently this "World Record" was revealed prior to launch.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


And look at the club he is part in.

The 4GHZ club for his AMD CPU.

People always judge others by their sig rig around here, and fail to see the truth in what they're saying.

Who cares about a MHZ world record, where the previous holder was a 5 year OLD Celeron, how many people use that CPU for gaming, rendering, folding today?

I'm more interested in BD's IPC, and how well does BD perform in real world? That's far more important IMO.

I don't really care what it can do with Liquid Helium, since that's not every day use.

Does BD's performance at 5GHZ on air => to a 2600K at 5GHZ?

That's a far more important question yet to be answered, and of course that's not what AMD is boasting about right now.

*Didn't JF-AMD say that they don't reveal ANY info about clocks, speeds, benchmarks, etc, BEFORE launch, but conveniently this "World Record" was revealed prior to launch.*


Can't you just be happy that "something" was released, you continually harp on that one point you know. If they didn't release it then you harp....now they have released something and you are still harping about it.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Can't you just be happy that "something" was released, you continually harp on that one point you know. If they didn't release it then you harp....now they have released something and you are still harping about it.










Does the truth hurt?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

The point was they didn't release anything, but released something when they said they wouldn't release anything.

The *moment* AMD has something they can say "hey look at us, woo hoo" they release it.

Which is great, imo... I love it; want more of it.

The problem is their "Hey look at us" moment was a cpuz validation.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Can't you just be happy that "something" was released, you continually harp on that one point you know. If they didn't release it then you harp....now they have released something and you are still harping about it.










Because you're missing the point.

ALL year we've been hearing that we don't reveal any info prior to launch, but now that a World Record has been broken, this they reveal *PRIOR to launch*.

I'm still waiting for Bulldozer and glad to see there are no cold bugs, and that it clocks well, but like I said so many times before, AMD DOES reveal info when it's best suited for them.

So quit telling me they don't reveal any info before launch, that's the part that annoys me.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The point was they didn't release anything, but released something when they said they wouldn't release anything.

The *moment* AMD has something they can say "hey look at us, woo hoo" they release it.

Which is great, imo... I love it; want more of it.

The problem is their "Hey look at us" moment was a cpuz validation.


Exactly.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I wouldn't get my hopes up. It is a Fusion event not Vision, do like me and be mellow about it, wait for them to announce and if it is regarding BD then you can be like

















Ha I don't have ants in my pants about it. I'm just wondering what it could be. I don't remember exactly what the flyer said but I think it just said it was at the Fusion Zone or something along those lines. I don't know if that means it's specifically a fusion event.

Either way, I'm 99% sure I'll be getting a BD when they do release. Just not sure which one. Couple of my friends are already on board to get 8150s, but I'm on the fence.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


*Congratulations JF-AMD 
and to the OCer's and to everyone 
involved at AMD for this new WR!!!*











Don't congratulate me, I had nothing to do with this one. This is simon's work, he deserves the credit. I just happened to be in the room at the time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Because you're missing the point.

ALL year we've been hearing that we don't reveal any info prior to launch, but now that a World Record has been broken, this they reveal *PRIOR to launch*.

I'm still waiting for Bulldozer and glad to see there are no cold bugs, and that it clocks well, but like I said so many times before, AMD DOES reveal info when it's best suited for them. So quit telling me they don't reveal any info, that's the part that annoys me.


Well, this is a demo, not a benchmark. We have been doing demos since last year. This demo just happened to do something really cool. We have consistently said SKUs, prices, benchmarks at launch. We are consistent there.

Now, one could say that this could steal some thunder from the launch, but I have a hunch that most people don't have liquid helium around the house, so this demo probably means very little to the average user. Obviously the desktop guys made the call on this and decided that, just like all of the other disclosures that we have done to date, this would not be a disruption to our partners' business.

I have had exactly 1 eamil from a customer so far about this asking about server. Pretty sure that most see this as an interesting test of how far you can push the silicon, but not something that they would ever be considering for a production environment (for obvious reasons.)

So, I think this demo probably put a few rumors to bed. Let me put another one to bed for you. Keep an eye out for some of those sandra benchmarks. I have seen some fakes for Opteron. There were some that said "it has to be real because..." (I don't understand how their database works). But I can tell you that if they are faking the opterons then there is no reason to believe the other ones are real. Benchmarks at launch will help you sort that out.

It's pretty annoying that people do this. Keep the faith, I like my products.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14923046*
> Ha I don't have ants in my pants about it. I'm just wondering what it could be. I don't remember exactly what the flyer said but I think it just said it was at the Fusion Zone or something along those lines. I don't know if that means it's specifically a fusion event.
> 
> Either way, I'm 99% sure I'll be getting a BD when they do release. Just not sure which one. Couple of my friends are already on board to get 8150s, but I'm on the fence.


I am in the same boat. I want an 8150 but want to see benches before making my final decision on which BD to get.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Don't congratulate me, I had nothing to do with this one. This is simon's work, he deserves the credit. I just happened to be in the room at the time.


i already congratulated simon,chew*,macci,hardman and ajs and all involved at AMD,and even though your the head of server marketing dept
you deserve a lot of credit with the FX line since your on the front line with us hardware cookie monsters.(we can never get enough)

so again, congrats and thank you John


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*   We have consistently said SKUs, prices, benchmarks at launch. We are consistent there.  
   
 You Tube  



 

Let me count the benchmarks...

FFXIV (pure benchmark not even the actual game) #1

Excel is being benched #2

SPEC Lightwave (pure benchmark) #3

Video was uploaded in Feb, Llano released at the end of June right?

So while you never published "benchmarks" you were clearly benching the processor vs a SB chip. Rubbing my two brain cells together I equate that to "benchmarks before release" since my two cells are able to figure out the performance difference of the two chips based on the benchmarks you provided in the "demo" of the product. Which I'm pretty sure was the intent of AMD when releasing the video containing several "benchmark" programs in comparison.


----------



## RAMP4NT

I feel like those who have spent a little too much time in this thread should be given a mandatory vacation, because they've become waay to invested in it, and the extreme level of repetition on some points is getting annoying. The horse died long ago, and its bones have been beat to dust. Not gonna mention names, (2010, Fr0sty, balla, some others) but let's give it a rest yeah?

The news post was the first productive/informative thing in this thread for a good dozen pages or so. And right after we're back to AMD eeeevil! Dude balla, they compared a llano to a SB before launch, I know how treacherous, where was intel when this was happening?! ....Writing dell and HP some checks, I think? Or maybe they're out handing some people benchmarks of SB-E to "leak"?


----------



## cssorkinman

I often interpret what is said or written much differently than others but,
I think that JF was talking specifically about benchmarks for the FX lineup.

Very happy to see that the new chippy is capable of such clock speeds - should be a lot of fun to play with for everyone that is an overclocking enthusiast, no matter which company is your favorite







.


----------



## Darkpriest667

I hope this isnt the news that is going to knock me off my feet.

I havent oc'd since 1993 or 1994 (old memory is gone) When we OC'd a pentium 60 to 200 Mhz... Frankly Im not interested in doing it again. I frankly buy(bought) AMD because of performance for price. I know this is an "OC" site but really Im only here because the technical knowledge is better than the "average" message board.

8 GHz on helium(sorry misspoke)... bfd... Didn't they teach you kids dont mix water and electricity? (yes i know its supposedly safe talk to someone whos had a failure in a WC system LOL)


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Does the truth hurt?


The only thing that hurts is having to re-read the same statement daily. Your maturity here is staggering to say the least.....sigh.


----------



## newnub123

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/09/09/guinness/ nice


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14922904*
> Because you're missing the point.
> 
> ALL year we've been hearing that we don't reveal any info prior to launch, but now that a World Record has been broken, this they reveal *PRIOR to launch*.
> 
> I'm still waiting for Bulldozer and glad to see there are no cold bugs, and that it clocks well, but like I said so many times before, AMD DOES reveal info when it's best suited for them.
> 
> So quit telling me they don't reveal any info before launch, that's the part that annoys me.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1107646-bulldozer-pre-launch-faq.html
> 
> Exactly.


If I were in JF's shoes I would say the same thing so that there was no expectation of anything....right? I mean would you want people just like you throwing questions at you daily for info?? You would probably say something just like he did if not exactly what he said just to shut down the questions. I mean if there was even a sliver of light from JF as to the possibility of something going to be put out there would be no end to the questions and begging for even a snippet of info, his blanket statement of nothing until release makes his life exponentially easier, wouldn't you agree?

The other alternative could be that JF's higher-ups told him that this would be the case, nothing released, but due to the recent delay announcement they decided to give us something to chew on for a bit to keep those on the fence (SB now or wait for BD) on that fence a little while longer. IDK.....and evidently it is not our place to know. My point was merely, let AMD have this one day please without the negative....lets all just celebrate their accomplishment....their decision to release something.....for just one day??


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14923734*
> If I were in JF's shoes I would say the same thing so that there was no expectation of anything....right? I mean would you want people just like you throwing questions at you daily for info?? You would probably say something just like he did if not exactly what he said just to shut down the questions. I mean if there was even a sliver of light from JF as to the possibility of something going to be put out there would be no end to the questions and begging for even a snippet of info, his blanket statement of nothing until release makes his life exponentially easier, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> The other alternative could be that JF's higher-ups told him that this would be the case, nothing released, but due to the recent delay announcement they decided to give us something to chew on for a bit to keep those on the fence (SB now or wait for BD) on that fence a little while longer. IDK.....and evidently it is not our place to know. My point was merely, let AMD have this one day please without the negative....lets all just celebrate their accomplishment....their decision to release something.....for just one day??


Another thought would be that JF is a server marketer and isn't filled in on what the client marketing person is doing to market the desktop version.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14923809*
> Another thought would be that JF is a server marketer and isn't filled in on what the client marketing person is doing to market the desktop version.


Good point.







Even still, let's just chill out with the "you said nothing until launch" bit and just be happy for them with this one release. I know it is not indicative of daily use, but what suicide run was ever meant to showcase that? There should not be any expectation concerning that from this release to begin with. They will release that later, maybe at launch, maybe not, only AMD knows that and they are not going to divulge that SITREP until they are ready to do so. We do know that the day is getting closer though and that is excellent!! Wouldn't you agree? Then we can start to rant/rave back and forth with factual data.....LOL


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Oh I'm chill, just my SB doesn't like it.

It's just a big tease to me right now, I would have liked to have seen something related to the IPC of the cores.

We now know it clocks well, and responds to cold. I miss that aspect of overclocking, I was really disappointed with my i5 when it wouldn't boot with my sub 0C water loop when I first got it.

If a sub $100 closed loop cooler can get 4.8GHz with around 26C ambients than I'm really interested in what I could get out of it, specifically during the winter when I was getting my 1090T to run around 13C load at 4.5GHz.


----------



## jck

I'm actually interested in the benchmarks for a weird reason:

If Zambezi doesn't meet or exceed my expectations for its price, I'm going to look into more server-based solutions.

I can always just put a hex-core in my gaming rig, then dump money into a G34 platform instead...and eventually maybe go Interlagos.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Actually the video of bulldozer running eight cores in Heaven at 4.8GHz on the closed loop system was unstable under light load (rebooted).

Not sure what voltage they were using, but I think it was a high 1.4??v. I was hoping for a bit more out of their "typical" cooling demo considering these chips were cherry picked. And Heaven is a gpu test, not a cpu test which the cpu wasn't even capable of handling leads me questioning why... Why use a gpu test to show off bulldozer clocks, and why put out a cpu on display with clocks you know aren't stable?

I mean... "Hey look it does 4.8GHz on this closed loop water cooling system, see it's running Heaven 2.5 (gpu benchmark), oh wait... It's unstable with low cpu usage" Just doesn't ring home as good marketing.

Guess all that's left now is to wait for per core performance to reveal itself and for the voltage tolerance under 24/7 usage to be known and how that coincides with clock rates.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924152*
> Actually the video of bulldozer running eight cores in Heaven at 4.8GHz on the closed loop system was unstable under light load (rebooted).
> 
> Not sure what voltage they were using, but I think it was a high 1.4??v. I was hoping for a bit more out of their "typical" cooling demo considering these chips were cherry picked. And Heaven is a gpu test, not a cpu test which the cpu wasn't even capable of handling leads me questioning why... Why use a gpu test to show off bulldozer clocks, and why put out a cpu on display with clocks you know aren't stable?
> 
> I mean... "Hey look it does 4.8GHz on this closed loop water cooling system, see it's running Heaven 2.5 (gpu benchmark), oh wait... It's unstable with low cpu usage" Just doesn't ring home as good marketing.
> 
> Guess all that's left now is to wait for per core performance to reveal itself and for the voltage tolerance under 24/7 usage to be known and how that coincides with clock rates.


1.4V? high?

I must be a monster then...i have been running the 1055T @ 1.5V+ and 4.1GHz.









Watch out, Macci! jck is comin to overclock with his bottle of icy gatorade!!!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

You can't compare Phenom II to Bulldozer, it's a whole new design, on a smaller fab.

My 1090T did 4.5GHz at 1.55v, obviously MHz are not what makes a cpu great though.

I'm just interested in being able to take an average, or above average chip further than people who have $40 cpu coolers, which is a benefit I don't get currently.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924278*
> You can't compare Phenom II to Bulldozer, it's a whole new design, on a smaller fab.
> 
> My 1090T did 4.5GHz at 1.55v, obviously MHz are not what makes a cpu great though.
> 
> I'm just interested in being able to take an average, or above average chip further than people who have $40 cpu coolers, which is a benefit I don't get currently.


You can always sell your 2500k when Bulldozer comes out if that's what your worried about. I'm sure you can at least get $120-130 for it or so used without issue.

Then you can join the *AMD FX 8150 Club / Intel Buttkicker club*


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14919860*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you know the basic rule of reasoning:
> 
> *What was not PROVEN FALSE, remains possible.*
> 
> I presented numbers, that can be wrong or can be right.
> 
> You brought nothing at all.
> If you have nothing, please remain silent.


Maybe you should consider offering your unsolicited advice to someone who actually cares to receive it? How bout that?


----------



## StarDestroyer

like others are saying, this world record is irrelevant for a performance guesstimate, it means nothing either way


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Heh, I'd probably get more than that for it since it's a 5.3GHz+ chip and Intel doesn't reduce their prices so products hold resale value a lot better.

Besides that I don't do much else besides gaming so I'd be looking at an x4, x8 is for epeen and working









At the leaked prices I could probably switch out the cpu/mobo and go right to bulldozer for cost... worst case.


----------



## dixson01974

JF-AMD please correct me if I'm wrong with this.

It looks like AMD is going after the multi threading apps or program not CORE VS. CORE with Intel. Meaning things like video editing, etc. Which more cores will be better.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Wasn't somethng supposed to happen on the 12th or 13th? I think AMD was gonna announce something, I forget.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924463*
> Heh, I'd probably get more than that for it since it's a 5.3GHz+ chip and Intel doesn't reduce their prices so products hold resale value a lot better.
> 
> Besides that I don't do much else besides gaming so I'd be looking at an x4, x8 is for epeen and working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the leaked prices I could probably switch out the cpu/mobo and go right to bulldozer for cost... worst case.


That is true, but if you stay x4 you might as well just stick to the 2500k. 8 core bliss is for enthusiasts!


----------



## lollingtonbear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14905018*
> Heres My Prediction
> In Q4 2011 AMD Will Have The "Fastest Desktop CPU On The Market"-take it to the bank


To some degree this has come true, no benchmarks yet but in terms of GHz.
Good prediction


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14924569*
> That is true, but if you stay x4 you might as well just stick to the 2500k. 8 core bliss is for enthusiasts!


We'll if it clocks better, costs less, and offers better per core performance I wouldn't mind switching









I'm enthusiastic about gaming, and keeping my gpus filled with information to process.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lollingtonbear;14924577*
> To some degree this has come true, no benchmarks yet but in terms of GHz.
> Good prediction


yep,just got the quarter wrong:lachen:


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924278*
> You can't compare Phenom II to Bulldozer, it's a whole new design, on a smaller fab.


Wasn't comparing design or fab...just volts
















Quote:


> My 1090T did 4.5GHz at 1.55v, obviously MHz are not what makes a cpu great though.


You had an unlocked multiplier too









And...Not alone it doesn't.
Quote:


> I'm just interested in being able to take an average, or above average chip further than people who have $40 cpu coolers, which is a benefit I don't get currently.


Me either. My H50 is lonely sitting on the bookshelf with my AM3 bracket.

It needs a Zambezi to love...


----------



## creisti86

on the cpu it says AMD FX. What would anyone think the otherinfo on the CPU mean (revision, and anything else):










this is from the video from amd's web site


----------



## jck

What I wouldn't do to find a tray of those laying around the office here...


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14924569*
> That is true, but if you stay x4 you might as well just stick to the 2500k. 8 core bliss is for enthusiasts!


Or maybe you just want to have an 8 core processor, just because. I know I won't need anything more than a quadcore, but I want to get an 8 core; just because I can. It has nothing to do with being an enthusiast.

More on bulldozer, hitting a new world record does show us some headroom for overclocking the processor right?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *creisti86;14924653*
> on the cpu it says AMD FX. What would anyone think the otherinfo on the CPU mean (revision, and anything else):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is from the video from amd's web site


looks like a B2-FD8150FRW8KGU


----------



## BallaTheFeared

On the unstable chip at 4.8GHz he says 4.8GHz at 1.5v "on this particular chip".

Since they had several trays worth of chips and a few days to go through them I would think unstable at 1.5v @ 4.8GHz will be one of the better clocking chips.

1.5v is a bit more than I would run with my chip 24/7, but that's apples to oranges at this point, I can't even use Phenom II as a base to guess with since it's a whole new design. Thought it seems to tolerate more top end voltage than Phenom II the AMD site specifically stated they killed a lot of hardware to doing this.


----------



## Usario

Awesome overclock! ... now let's see if IPC will be good enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14921166*
> actors, fake


Please stop trolling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14921794*
> If MHz was as important as you believe it was, netburst and the Pent 4 would have crushed AMD's lowered clocked Athlons.
> 
> I hope AMD does deliver, at those prices I could afford to build another system... No reason to be bias at all over a piece of sand.
> 
> However I find it suspect that a company that doesn't release information before launch constantly releases information they feel provides hype to their product.
> 
> We saw them do it with Llano, running multiple programs. However the only cpu bench they ran during that demo was superpi and it was quite a bit slower than the sandy they were comparing it to.
> 
> I see this as simple marketing to combat the rumors that have been floating around, the problem is MHz doesn't mean anything and nothing showing the actual speed of Bulldozer was present. CPUz validations aren't something I worry about, however it strikes me as highly suspect that nothing else was presented besides exactly that whereas with Llano they demonstrated it running multiple programs, even a common benchmark.
> 
> IMO this is a black hole marketing attempt aimed at providing some much needed positive attention towards bulldozer, however MHz means very little without knowing what the chip can do per cycle and they conveniently forgot to do anything except validate cpuz while at this press conference.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14923317*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
> 
> Let me count the benchmarks...
> 
> FFXIV (pure benchmark not even the actual game) #1
> 
> Excel is being benched #2
> 
> SPEC Lightwave (pure benchmark) #3
> 
> Video was uploaded in Feb, Llano released at the end of June right?
> 
> So while you never published "benchmarks" you were clearly benching the processor vs a SB chip. Rubbing my two brain cells together I equate that to "benchmarks before release" since my two cells are able to figure out the performance difference of the two chips based on the benchmarks you provided in the "demo" of the product. Which I'm pretty sure was the intent of AMD when releasing the video containing several "benchmark" programs in comparison.


I think it's likely that since Llano is a whole new product (APU), instead of a new generation of a previous product, releasing those benchmarks didn't hurt OEM supply chains.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924963*
> On the unstable chip at 4.8GHz he says 4.8GHz at 1.5v "on this particular chip".
> 
> Since they had several trays worth of chips and a few days to go through them I would think unstable at 1.5v @ 4.8GHz will be one of the better clocking chips.
> 
> 1.5v is a bit more than I would run with my chip 24/7, but that's apples to oranges at this point, I can't even use Phenom II as a base to guess with since it's a whole new design. Thought it seems to tolerate more top end voltage than Phenom II the AMD site specifically stated they killed a lot of hardware to doing this.


In the video they had Bulldozer running at 2v, which is higher than when they overclocked Phenom II (and higher than I've ever seen PhII). Perhaps the architecture is more tolerant of higher voltages.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14924569*
> That is true, but if you stay x4 you might as well just stick to the 2500k. 8 core bliss is for enthusiasts!


I am buying an 8 Core no matter what just because I want one. Even if it does not provide any gaming benefits at all.


----------



## HK_47

and everyone laughed at me when I said Bulldozer would do 8-9GHz under LN2......
well sorry guys but this time my prediction was correct. 8.4GHz
Quote:


> The AMD FX CPU, set to launch in the fourth quarter of 2011, achieved a top speed of 8.429 GHz, surpassing the previous record of 8.308 GHz. The record was set on Aug. 31, 2011, in Austin, Texas, by "Team AMD FX," a group comprised of elite overclocking specialists working alongside top AMD technologists, who will also be named in the Guinness World Records.


http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsroom/Pages/newsroom.aspx


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924963*
> On the unstable chip at 4.8GHz he says 4.8GHz at 1.5v "on this particular chip".
> 
> Since they had several trays worth of chips and a few days to go through them *I would think* unstable at 1.5v @ 4.8GHz will be one of the better clocking chips.
> 
> 1.5v is a bit more than I would run with my chip 24/7, but that's apples to oranges at this point, I can't even use Phenom II as a base to guess with since it's a whole new design. Thought it seems to tolerate more top end voltage than Phenom II the AMD site specifically stated they killed a lot of hardware to doing this.


Saying that it is a better chip is a guess then? It could be that "this particular chip" was a bad one too...right?

I think what they did with one chip is remarkable.

I hope that I can get 5GHz+ stable using my H50.

Am I counting on it? No. But, I am hopeful.

And if I get it, I won't push the 8150 over 1.475 probably even with an LCS.

I don't feel like blowing $250-300 (whatever the price ends up) because I want to push the envelope. I don't have that much money to lose in the near term.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14925203*
> and everyone laughed at me when I said Bulldozer would do 8-9GHz under LN2......
> well sorry guys but this time my prediction was correct. 8.4GHz
> 
> http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsroom/Pages/newsroom.aspx


Hey, at least I didn't disagree with you!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14925270*
> Saying that it is a better chip is a guess then? It could be that "this particular chip" was a bad one too...right?


Saying it's a better chip would be commonsense, since they had crates to pick through to find the best chips they are marketing them so they'd pick the best one they could get.

Saying they had 100 chips to choose from and picked the worst one does not make any sense at all.

MHz doesn't mean much until we know the other part of the equation.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14925526*
> Saying it's a better chip would be commonsense, since they had crates to pick through to find the best chips they are marketing them so they'd pick the best one they could get.
> 
> Saying they had 100 chips to choose from and picked the worst one does not make any sense at all.
> 
> MHz doesn't mean much until we know the other part of the equation.


The overclocker in the video said four out of seven he's tried hit 8GHz with LN2.

Also, it's kind of hard to cherry pick chips for extreme testing isn't it? After the test is over, you'd think the chip would severely degrade/die.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14925548*
> The overclocker in the video said four out of seven he's tried hit 8GHz with LN2.
> 
> Also, it's kind of hard to cherry pick chips for extreme testing isn't it? After the test is over, you'd think the chip would severely degrade/die.


I wasn't speaking on the -180 degree runs, that's really not relevant to me.

They had the chips for over a week (I believe I read that) before they did that showing.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14925526*
> Saying it's a better chip would be commonsense, since they had crates to pick through to find the best chips they are marketing them so they'd pick the best one they could get.
> 
> Saying they had 100 chips to choose from and picked the worst one does not make any sense at all.
> 
> MHz doesn't mean much until we know the other part of the equation.


says the guy with a sandy bridge setup, if ivy bridge hit 8.4GHz I'm sure you would be singing a different tune


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14925352*
> Hey, at least I didn't disagree with you!


lol well I was totally wrong about 6GHz on water, they can't even reach that with phase change, but over 5GHz on air is certainly possible. now people will accuse me of having "inside information" for predicting the FX world record. 8-9 and it lands right in the middle at 8.4 lol


----------



## jck

If you examine this pic:

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/hardware-news/228731d1315939946-official-bulldozer-breaks-frequency-world-record-amd-samples-vantage.jpg

If I had to guess, they are marking them generally with a MHz designation (7600, 8000, etc) and with the voltage at peak.

I see others there well over 7GHz too. So, it's not like half of them are blowing up at 5GHz cause of flaws.

Maybe someone at AMD kept the specs of each CPU attempted by Sami, et al, and what it reached so we know the full specs and can eliminate any more conjecture.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *creisti86;14924653*
> on the cpu it says AMD FX. What would anyone think the otherinfo on the CPU mean (revision, and anything else):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is from the video from amd's web site


FA 1130APM is informative. 1130 is a date in the format of YYWW, (according to this AMD published guide), meaning that the chip was probably manufactured in the 30th week of 2011, ie the last week of July. Of course the 0 is pretty fuzzy and could be a 2, so take that with a grain of salt. I suspect it's a 0 because of this tray photo from overclockers.com. There was a photo of an Interlagos chip a few weeks back that was manufactured the same week. It basically means that AMD had B2 silicon in late July, but there's apparently been more subrevisions of the B2 stepping, like B2F and B2G. We have no idea if the samples used for the overclocking competition (I would guess they are qualification samples) are the supposedly current B2.G stepping that Anandtech alluded to on twitter.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14925676*
> says the guy with a sandy bridge setup, if ivy bridge hit 8.4GHz I'm sure you would be singing a different tune


You might want to check my post history, I'm about as far from an Intel fan as you can get while still owning one.

I hardly ever post on the Intel forum, most my posts there are to show when SB, even at 5.3GHz fails to deliver in cpu intensive games at times.

Now you could say I have a bias towards getting more performance, and expecting more from my cpu, however I find it comical when people say I'm Intel bias.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dixson01974;14924506*
> JF-AMD please correct me if I'm wrong with this.
> 
> It looks like AMD is going after the multi threading apps or program not CORE VS. CORE with Intel. Meaning things like video editing, etc. Which more cores will be better.


I know you won't believe it, but in reality, we go after customers and parts of the market, not competitors. Why would I go squarely after their products, there are plenty of places that they are not at. Yes, we are focused on threaded applications because we believe that there is more upside on threading moving forward and less opportunity for single threaded environments.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14924695*
> What I wouldn't do to find a tray of those laying around the office here...


Yeah, I'd love to not have to trip over a tray of processors most days








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14925526*
> Saying it's a better chip would be commonsense, since they had crates to pick through to find the best chips they are marketing them so they'd pick the best one they could get.
> 
> Saying they had 100 chips to choose from and picked the worst one does not make any sense at all.
> 
> MHz doesn't mean much until we know the other part of the equation.


I am guessing that they didn't have crates of chips. What you saw on the table was probably what they were given. Most chips prior to launch are at partners or at labs. Marketing doesn't get crates of chips. We have lots of existing products, I have a room of them, but for the new stuff, its in high demand.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Trays would probably be a better word.

They had several physical chips according to the pictures I saw with writing on them, like 8GHz 2.1v..


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14926133*
> Yeah, I'd love to not have to trip over a tray of processors most days


LOL Awww poor John, tripping over a tray of chips that people would do anything to get there hands on







LOL

Man 3 more hours until the AMD Fusion Cocktail. They stated in the invite:
Quote:


> Be sure to arrive before 7:00pm to hear our big news first hand.


----------



## 12Cores

All I want is 5ghz under water dead stable - But one would think that these things should hit 5ghz with ease - keeping my fingers crossed


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *12Cores;14927036*
> All I want is 5ghz under water dead stable - But one would think that these things should hit 5ghz with ease - keeping my fingers crossed


How about 5GHz Air?


----------



## 12Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14927051*
> How about 5GHz Air?


5ghz on air would be that much better, I cannot wait for some reviews to start popping up in legitimate sites.


----------



## xd_1771

^ There were some (unconfirmed) statements about the FX passing 5Ghz on <$100 air cooling.


----------



## linkin93

If it can do 5GHz on Air, what can it do on "water" ? (As some people have some elitist pre-conceptions)


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14927272*
> ^ There were some (unconfirmed) statements about the FX passing 5Ghz on <$100 air cooling.


Quote:


> *NordicHardware:* "It says you reach frequencies "well above 5 GHz" with only air and sub-$100 water cooling solutions. Mind going more into detail about your ventures on air and water?"
> *Sami Mäkinen:* "In terms of CPUZ MHz I've seen virtually every CPU reach over 5GHz when using a good air/watercooler. I believe the highest result I saw with aircooling was around 5.5GHz CPUZ. This CPU hit around 7.8GHz on LN2."
> IMG_8803
> 
> *NordicHardware:* "Also are these 5+ GHz frequencies that could be achieved by people looking for a 24/7 overclock on air or water cooling solutions?"
> *Sami Mäkinen:* "There is obviously a delta between "CPUZ MHz" and "24/7 MHz" and overclocking is never guaranteed. But getting close to 5GHz (or even above) on good cooling solutions seems to be possible. Every CPU is different so your mileage can vary."


Well... I would call that confirmed.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14927272*
> ^ There were some (unconfirmed) statements about the FX passing 5Ghz on <$100 air cooling.


That would be nice.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14927322*
> Well... I would call that confirmed.


I would say he's saying on high end air cooling and maybe stuff like a Rasa kit some chips should hit around 5GHz, now what he didn't say was that they have, or he has had, or he has run prime, or any of those key things.

Another thing to consider is how much voltage it will require, and if it will be 24/7 safe...

We've already seen the video of 4.8GHz at 1.5v failing to remain stable while running Heaven, which only provides a minor cpu load.


----------



## JCPUser

Some people are too negative and cynical. I don't see the reason to nitpick over benchmarks and demos released for different products. Is AMD a bit hypocritical? Maybe - but it is hardly a big deal. For the record, most consider a benchmark a tool from which you can determine relative performance levels. If you watch that Llano video, you cannot say "oh Llano's IGP is 80% faster than SB's IGP" so I would say it is much more of a demo than a benchmark. That point can be argued, but it is pointless.

As for the OC record&#8230;Good Job AMD. Also, the comments about 4.8GHz on an AVERAGE closed loop setup and well over 5GHz on the best air are very promising. Of course, _clockspeed is only one part of the equation_. We will have to wait until launch to see how it compares per clock.

Speaking of waiting for benchmarks at launch -- anybody bother comparing the CPU-z readouts from the "leaks" and AMD's validation&#8230; well I did.

*From the recent VR-zone leaks:* Source








*From AMD:* Source









First notice that the CPU-z version is the same in the 2 screens, but the readout is completely different. Seems odd since everybody was claiming that the revision 2 chips are retail. More proof that rev. 2 does NOT necessarily mean retail is in the AMD shot where the chip is rev. 2, but ES is clearly noted.

Very interesting. Looks like you can't trust everything you see on the net after all. Personally, I don't remember any recent leaks with a CPU-z readout similar to AMD's validation. Meaning that the leaks are very likely fakes and we have NO idea about per clock performance. All we do know is that it will clock just as good (or better) than sandy bridge.

*Tl;dr: Stop nitpicking over what info AMD releases. CPU-z shots from recent leaks of "retail performance" are likely fake.*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Eh? It's cpuz...

Maybe they shouldn't accept the submission since cpuz is erroring out on the readings anyways, unless you believe the ram is running 1800MHz 2-16-2-22.

What I find more compelling is how much the "fakes" got right.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14927486*
> I think what myself, an AMD and INTEL user and others like me are saying is that clock speeds matters, but it's only one part of the equation, we need more info before we can really say much about it's performance. I personally like the fact that there is no cold bug and it responds directly to improved cooling, something my current chip does not do.


Plus it's got a fully unlocked BCLK. I believe SNB has a max multiplier of 58, so a stubborn base clock on top of the cold bug makes BD pretty nifty for those shooting for world records.

But, a lot of the people that have been bashing Bulldozer haven't been acknowledging that clock speed matters. I know you know the difference, but the amount of people that think IPC is the only thing that matters, period, is absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14927614*
> Some people are too negative and cynical. I don't see the reason to nitpick over benchmarks and demos released for different products. Is AMD a bit hypocritical? Maybe - but it is hardly a big deal. For the record, most consider a benchmark a tool from which you can determine relative performance levels. If you watch that Llano video, you cannot say "oh Llano's IGP is 80% faster than SB's IGP" so I would say it is much more of a demo than a benchmark. That point can be argued, but it is pointless.
> 
> As for the OC record&#8230;Good Job AMD. Also, the comments about 4.8GHz on an AVERAGE closed loop setup and well over 5GHz on the best air are very promising. Of course, _clockspeed is only one part of the equation_. We will have to wait until launch to see how it compares per clock.
> 
> Speaking of waiting for benchmarks at launch -- anybody bother comparing the CPU-z readouts from the "leaks" and AMD's validation&#8230; well I did.
> 
> *From the recent VR-zone leaks:* Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From AMD:* Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First notice that the CPU-z version is the same in the 2 screens, but the readout is completely different. Seems odd since everybody was claiming that the revision 2 chips are retail. More proof that rev. 2 does NOT necessarily mean retail is in the AMD shot where the chip is rev. 2, but ES is clearly noted.
> 
> Very interesting. Looks like you can't trust everything you see on the net after all. Personally, I don't remember any recent leaks with a CPU-z readout similar to AMD's validation. Meaning that the leaks are very likely fakes and we have NO idea about per clock performance. All we do know is that it will clock just as good (or better) than sandy bridge.
> 
> *Tl;dr: Stop nitpicking over what info AMD releases. CPU-z shots from recent leaks of "retail performance" are likely fake.*


Yeah, this proves that every Bulldozer leak except the very early ES chiphell ones that read "AMD Processor" in CPU-Z 1.57 (no support for Bulldozer until 1.58) were fake.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14927675*
> the amount of people that think IPC is the only thing that matters, period, is absolutely ridiculous.


This. As JF-AMD said, the people who tell you that IPC is the only thing that matters have an agenda.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14926133*
> Yeah, I'd love to not have to trip over a tray of processors most days


Dear JF-AMD,

At my own expense, I will be glad to travel to and come in to your facility and take away any trays full of *release* processors that are tripping you up.









jck

P.S.- Yes, I'll buy my own motherboards too.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14927667*
> Eh? It's cpuz...
> 
> Maybe they shouldn't accept the submission since cpuz is erroring out on the readings anyways, unless you believe the ram is running 1800MHz 2-16-2-22.
> 
> What I find more compelling is how much the "fakes" got right.


Believe what you want, but we aren't talking about one value here... the readout is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT for the same chip bulldozer chip with the same CPU-z version. And ES is still attached rev 2 bulldozer unlike the rumors which say rev.2 = retail.

If you want to believe that BD performs like the leaks (worse than PH II) then go ahead. Considering that it would nearly impossible for AMD to sell a new cpu that is worse than their old product, I am going to believe that a good number of the leaks have been fake.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

What I'm saying JCP is that your reasons for invalidating the others holds true with the one you're attempting to use to invalidate them.

Saying the leaks were of poor performing chips that don't reflex the release performance is one thing, saying every one of them is fake is a whole different can of worms.

Let's hope the IPC is there too, and the leaked prices hold true.

An eight core FX bulldozer chip should run with Intels best $1000 processor from SBe.

If that happens they'll really shake up the market, Intel may have to ditch it's archaic pricing model.


----------



## HK_47

lol by the time we see bulldozer released, asus will have the Crosshair VI out.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14927778*
> Let's hope the IPC is there too, and the leaked prices hold true.
> 
> An eight core FX bulldozer chip should run with Intels best $1000 processor from SBe.
> 
> If that happens they'll really shake up the market, Intel may have to ditch it's archaic pricing model.


Eh.

Rough (I'll repeat: rough) core/module scaling:

FX 8150: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
i7 3960X: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 705

BD would need slightly better per-core performance than SB-E. I honestly don't expect that to happen, but it is somewhat possible.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14927778*
> What I'm saying JCP is that your reasons for invalidating the others holds true with the one you're attempting to use to invalidate them.
> 
> Saying the leaks were of poor performing chips that don't reflex the release performance is one thing, saying every one of them is fake is a whole different can of worms.


Think about it. Almost all of the leaks got the model name and description wrong, and showed chips of the same stepping and same model number (FX-8150) with much higher TDPs and much worse overclocking capability.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14924717*
> Or maybe you just want to have an 8 core processor, just because. I know I won't need anything more than a quadcore, but I want to get an 8 core; just because I can. It has nothing to do with being an enthusiast.
> 
> More on bulldozer, hitting a new world record does show us some headroom for overclocking the processor right?


Without a doubt, I don't need an 8 core, but I'm positive depending on reviews that I'll have one cooled by a Kuhler 620 within the next two months should a decent matx bulldozer compatible motherboard come out.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14927834*
> Think about it. Almost all of the leaks got the model name and description wrong, and showed chips of the same stepping and same model number (FX-8150) with much higher TDPs and much worse overclocking capability.


Right.

CPU-z 1.58 may be reading some values wrong (like the ram timing which Balla pointed out) HOWEVER, the same version of CPU-z (v1.58) should CONSISTENTLY read the same values wrong for all bulldozers. Why is the same rev. 2 BD being read in two completely different ways by the same version of CPU-z? That is my point.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14927930*
> Without a doubt, I don't need an 8 core, but I'm positive depending on reviews that I'll have one cooled by a Kuhler 620 within the next two months should a decent matx bulldozer compatible motherboard come out.


you missed today's gold box deal on the 620, it was a whole $11 off.
















i considered pulling the trigger, but honestly for $11 i'll just wait and see what cools BD best.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14927790*
> lol by the time we see bulldozer released, asus will have the Crosshair VI out.


Good!

That means the Sabertooth would be even cheaper (hopefully lol)







lol


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14927946*
> Right.
> 
> CPU-z 1.58 may be reading some values wrong (like the ram timing which Balla pointed out) HOWEVER, the same version of CPU-z (v1.58) should CONSISTENTLY read the same values wrong for all bulldozers. Why is the same rev. 2 BD being read in two completely different ways by the same version of CPU-z? That is my point.


Odd for sure, where does the Max TDP come from anyways?

I remember seeing it awhile ago, but 1.57.1 doesn't even have it either...










Does anyone have a version of cpuz that shows TDP?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928005*
> Odd for sure, where does the Max TDP come from anyways?
> 
> I remember seeing it awhile ago, but 1.57.1 doesn't even have it either...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a version of cpuz that shows TDP?


AMD system, but it shows TDP. Version 1.58 but i think all versions I have used on AMD have always had the Max TDP.


----------



## 66racer

Well at the end of the day Im looking forward to 5Ghz on air/sub $100 liquid cooling (corsair/antec) lol. I just wish I needed the performance, But like my moto with cars, you can never have enough horsepower stands true for computers


----------



## Seronx

http://valid.canardpc.com/records.php

JF-AMD you tell them guys in the FX Club to aim for the lowest frequency, next time!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14928064*
> http://valid.canardpc.com/records.php
> 
> JF-AMD you tell them guys in the FX Club to aim for the lowest frequency, next time!


Maybe if they can get a motherboard with a BIOS that will allow them to set a base clock of 5 and a multiplier of 1.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14927667*
> Eh? It's cpuz...
> 
> Maybe they shouldn't accept the submission since cpuz is erroring out on the readings anyways, unless you believe the ram is running 1800MHz 2-16-2-22.
> 
> What I find more compelling is how much the "fakes" got right.











1800mhz? Where or how did you get that number?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14928411*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1800mhz? Where or how did you get that number?


900MHz x 2 = 1800 MT/s

MT/s is marketed as MHz by the DRAM industry


----------



## Nocturin

so balla ment mt/s not mhz? Why is this so difficult believe? Hasn't ddr3 1800 been out for awhile?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14927614*
> Some people are too negative and cynical. I don't see the reason to nitpick over benchmarks and demos released for different products. Is AMD a bit hypocritical? Maybe - but it is hardly a big deal. For the record, most consider a benchmark a tool from which you can determine relative performance levels. If you watch that Llano video, you cannot say "oh Llano's IGP is 80% faster than SB's IGP" so I would say it is much more of a demo than a benchmark. That point can be argued, but it is pointless.
> 
> As for the OC record&#8230;Good Job AMD. Also, the comments about 4.8GHz on an AVERAGE closed loop setup and well over 5GHz on the best air are very promising. Of course, _clockspeed is only one part of the equation_. We will have to wait until launch to see how it compares per clock.
> 
> Speaking of waiting for benchmarks at launch -- anybody bother comparing the CPU-z readouts from the "leaks" and AMD's validation&#8230; well I did.
> 
> *From the recent VR-zone leaks:* Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From AMD:* Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First notice that the CPU-z version is the same in the 2 screens, but the readout is completely different. Seems odd since everybody was claiming that the revision 2 chips are retail. More proof that rev. 2 does NOT necessarily mean retail is in the AMD shot where the chip is rev. 2, but ES is clearly noted.
> 
> Very interesting. Looks like you can't trust everything you see on the net after all. Personally, I don't remember any recent leaks with a CPU-z readout similar to AMD's validation. Meaning that the leaks are very likely fakes and we have NO idea about per clock performance. All we do know is that it will clock just as good (or better) than sandy bridge.
> 
> *Tl;dr: Stop nitpicking over what info AMD releases. CPU-z shots from recent leaks of "retail performance" are likely fake.*


first thing i notice is the WR is a cpuz validation SS and the other is a SS of cpuz.
im trying to figure this out,but could the cache differences be due to only one module being used?
comparing the actual cpuz ss from the event the only difference is the top says AMD FX only and the cache size
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1705/2/


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14928483*
> so balla ment mt/s not mhz? Why is this so difficult believe? Hasn't ddr3 1800 been out for awhile?


Cas 2 DDR3 1800?







Where?

MT/s and MHz is exactly the same thing when referring to DDR.


----------



## qwertymac93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14928064*
> http://valid.canardpc.com/records.php


And it is listed under "intel"


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928506*
> Cas 2 DDR3 1800?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where?


Might be possible under LN2 considering some RAM can easily hit 1800 CAS 6 with no cooling and Kingston recently overclocked some HyperXs to 3000MHz.


----------



## pioneerisloud

And what RAM do they have that can run CAS2 @ 900MHz? It's either fake or SEVERELY not supported. Being that the current AM3+ boards are supported, I'm leaning more towards fake.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14928529*
> And what RAM do they have that can run CAS2 @ 900MHz? It's either fake or SEVERELY not supported. Being that the current AM3+ boards are supported, I'm leaning more towards fake.


Not fake, LN2/LHE


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14928529*
> And what RAM do they have that can run CAS2 @ 900MHz? It's either fake or SEVERELY not supported. Being that the current AM3+ boards are supported, I'm leaning more towards fake.


It's almost definitely a CPU-Z error. Kind of ridiculous for the timings to be 2-16-2-22.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928506*
> Cas 2 DDR3 1800?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> MT/s and MHz is exactly the same thing when referring to DDR.


Thanks for answering my question
















What's so important about the cas 2 that its unbelievable to be that low?

If they are the same thing then why was it 902 on the validation?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14928538*
> Not fake, LN2/LHE


900MHz at CAS2? I haven't even seen Hypers do that.

Could also be a CPUz glitch, but again....the current AM3+ boards are fully supported.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Oh I believe the 8.3GHz run was legit... I'm just pointing out CPUz has read errors all the time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14928552*
> Thanks for answering my question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's so important about the cas 2 that its unbelievable to be that low?


Anyone want to pick this one up for me?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928571*
> Oh I believe the 8.3GHz run was legit... I'm just pointing out CPUz has read errors all the time.


QFT. I remember reading on... AMDZone I think... that CPU-Z said someone's Opteron was running at 222THz.


----------



## Chuckclc

Was there suppose to be an announcement of some sort by AMD today? Or was the record breaking OC the news?


----------



## radaja

iBUYPOWER will sale the first AMD system using BD
iBUYPOWER Launches World's Fastest AMD FX-8150 "Bulldozer" System
Quote:


> iBUYPOWER is launching the world's first Bulldozer-powered gaming system *tonight*, using exactly the same components AMD used in their record breaking system.


nice bulldozer is selling tonight or The system will be available for sale "shortly"?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

lol wow...

I want to link the Jarhead clip where they're in the desert and the guy is like "I just felt...." but uh, yeah










This would mean benchmarks would come out tonight as well wouldn't it?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928005*
> Odd for sure, where does the Max TDP come from anyways?
> 
> I remember seeing it awhile ago, but 1.57.1 doesn't even have it either...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a version of cpuz that shows TDP?


I've got the same CPUZ as you, and mine shows MAX TDP, maybe it's not reading SB correctly.


----------



## Rebelord

I have been paying attention, any announcement so far form the 6-9pm PST cocktail party? I figured that would be separate from the OC Record announcement. Since AMD did say seperatley that they were making a big announcement during the IDF today.


----------



## pioneerisloud

My CPUz shows 95w Max TDP. Same version as both of you guys too.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14928692*
> I've got the same CPUZ as you, and mine shows MAX TDP, maybe it's not reading SB correctly.


yours looks like it is CPUZ SS and the his is a CPUZ validation SS?
maybe after validation it dont show TDP?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14928741*
> yours looks like it is CPUZ SS and the his is a CPUZ validation SS?
> maybe after validation it dont show TDP?


Nice find.

Same thing with my CPU.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14928692*
> I've got the same CPUZ as you, and mine shows MAX TDP, maybe it's not reading SB correctly.


Nah it's showing it now (I've seen it before) but only within windows, when I upload it - it is no longer shown.

Edit: Check that, 1.57.1 wasn't showing it, at least not the rog version. I know I saw it before in a previous version though... 1.58 seems to show it again but not when validated.

Windows:










Validated:


----------



## hokiealumnus

The RAM timings were a CPUz read error. If you check out the bot submission, they were running them at 9-9-9-27. No one tightens timings to seek out max CPU frequency.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14928773*
> Nice find.
> 
> Same thing with my CPU.


now look at them BD cpuz from today and compare to the cpuz val from the WR the windows shots have TDP only difference from all cpuz of BD is cache size but now think its because of the modules not being used


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14928741*
> yours looks like it is CPUZ SS and the his is a CPUZ validation SS?
> maybe after validation it dont show TDP?


I was thinking that too, the validation SS doesn't show Max TDP, so that's prolly where Balla got his SS from.










Edit: Looks like it's sorted out. lol.


----------



## davieg

In regards to the iBuypower release thing mentioned before, is this not just some company saying yeah when we can sell it we will sell it, not a launch as such?
There could be anything in that red case next to him from a 8150 to an empty shell.
Wouldn't get your hopes up for extra FX stuff today though.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Another mystery solved by the master minds of OCN!


----------



## radaja

So could it be that with only two core running instead of 4-way cache it just now shows cache for the one module?

with 8 core/4 module its
8x16
4x64
4x2048
8

with 2 core/one module its
2x16
64
2048
8


----------



## 4LC4PON3

wasnt there supposed to be some big announcement today or did they already do it


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14928962*
> So could it be that with only two core running instead of 4-way cache it just now shows cache for the one module?
> 
> with 8 core/4 module its
> 8x16
> 4x64
> 4x2048
> 8
> 
> with 2 core/one module its
> 2x16
> 64
> 2048
> 8


That makes sense, was there a discrepancy?

btw - you should update your prediction post to Q3 2011, that way it's even more accurate. I won't tell.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14928962*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So could it be that with only two core running instead of 4-way cache it just now shows cache for the one module?
> 
> with 8 core/4 module its
> 8x16
> 4x64
> 4x2048
> 8
> 
> with 2 core/one module its
> 2x16
> 64
> 2048
> 8


Nice find, however that doesn't explain why the leaks show a different name and a blank specification line. I would think those would display the same characters for the same version of CPU-z and the same bulldozer revision.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14929074*
> Nice find, however that doesn't explain why the leaks shows a different name and a blank specification line. I would think those would display the same for the same version of CPU-z and the same bulldozer revision.


yea the AND FX on top and the blank part is strange but look at the chiphell one,now only thing to solve is the top name?could it be cpuz reading glitches?this chiphell one is supposed to be a FX8150
but cpuz show both 8150 and 8130?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14929090*
> yea the AND FX on top and the blank part is strange but look at the chiphell one,now only thing to solve is the top name?could it be cpuz reading glitches?this chiphell one is supposed to be a FX8150
> but cpuz show both 8150 and 8130?


Maybe it has to do with the rest of the platform. Not sure. Just tough to believe leaks when the same version of CPU-z is reporting all sorts of different values for supposedly the same chip.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14929148*
> Maybe it has to do with the rest of the platform. Not sure. Just tough to believe leaks when the same version of CPU-z is reporting all sorts of different values for supposedly the same chip.


yea i hear you,it is strange


----------



## BallaTheFeared

What interests me is that all the specification information is the same across the board.

How would a faker have access to that information to fake it? Or is it common knowledge?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14929204*
> What interests me is that all the specification information is the same across the board.
> 
> How would a faker have access to that information to fake it? Or is it common knowledge?


Well there were real B0 ES benchmarks a long time ago. Since cache sizes and the like aren't really going to change over revisions they make have gotten the info from there.

Look, I am not saying everything is fake and RETAIL BD WILL BE 50% BETTAH THAN IVY TAKE THAT INTEL!!!11!!1..... I am just saying that you should be skeptical of rev. 2 leaks before today that don't match the CPU-z SS from AMD's event.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah I meant the family and stuff, it doesn't really matter.

We'll see whats up when it comes out and you guys get your hands on it.


----------



## emersonsc

What happened to the announcement that was supposed to happen an hour ago?

Did AMD delay that to but forget to tell us... again?


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emersonsc;14929341*
> What happened to the announcement that was supposed to happen an hour ago?
> 
> Did AMD delay that to but forget to tell us... again?


Pretty sure it was the overclocking record.

If not, the event isn't over yet.


----------



## emersonsc

Didnt the twitter post say be on time for the big announcement?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;14929356*
> Pretty sure it was the overclocking record.
> 
> If not, the event isn't over yet.


I think there's still almost an hour until it's 9PM in San Francisco. If it lasts the entire time, that could be why.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14927834*
> Think about it. Almost all of the leaks got the model name and description wrong, and showed chips of the same stepping and same model number (FX-8150) with much higher TDPs and much worse overclocking capability.


What intruigues me is that almost three weeks ago the Corescn leaks had not only the CPU-Z specification field correct, but the appearance of the IHS markings as well. I assumed they were completely fake at the time because of the IHS markings. I thought they would follow desktop Llano's IHS markings and have something like this:

AMD FX-8100 Series

[Model Number]
[Stepping Code]
[Serial Number]

Instead the Corescn leaks showed:

AMD FX

[Model Number]
[Stepping Code]
[Serial Number]

which ended up being what all those Bulldozer chips on the tray looked like.
The also got the CPU-Z specification "AMD FX(tm)-8150 Eight-Core Processor" exactly correct. I personally didn't anticipate the (tm) after the AMD FX, again based on Llano. I'm definitely not saying that the performance is representative, as the latest AGESA 0.0.9.2 doesn't appear to have come out until the end of August, but they did get many details correct, so perhaps they did have a real chip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14929090*
> yea the AND FX on top and the blank part is strange but look at the chiphell one,now only thing to solve is the top name?could it be cpuz reading glitches?this chiphell one is supposed to be a FX8150
> but cpuz show both 8150 and 8130?


I did some experiments a week or so ago using a virtual machine to simulate bulldozer CPUID values. Basically I programmed in a theoretical processor specification "AMD FX-8150 Processor", and changed the CPUID values related to cache, instruction sets, and the register identifying family model and stepping to what I reasoned would be correct for bulldozer: 0x00600F12. CPU-Z inside the VM showed most information including the processor specification correctly for a bulldozer CPU.

The processor name however changed based only on how many threads the VM had available. With eight threads, it showed AMD FX-8130P or AMD FX-8110, with six it showed AMD FX-6110, with four AMD FX-4110, and with two it showed only AMD FX. I believe that CPU-Z uses placeholder name values based on thread counts for bulldozer CPUs based on early model numbers. It will presumably be updated eventually so that it builds the processor name string correctly from CPUID values. (This is a different process from the processor specification, which is a direct binary to ascii decoding).


----------



## Hueristic

That Corescn CPU-Z does look damn good in comparison. Lets hope it was real.
Quote:


> In 3DMark Vantage FX-8150 was able to score 44,678 points, while Core i7-2600K limited to only 25,070 :


Hmm I kinda doubt this.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14929468*
> I did some experiments a week or so ago using a virtual machine to simulate bulldozer CPUID values. Basically I programmed in a theoretical processor specification "AMD FX-8150 Processor", and changed the CPUID values related to cache, instruction sets, and the register identifying family model and stepping to what I reasoned would be correct for bulldozer: 0x00600F12. CPU-Z inside the VM showed most information including the processor specification correctly for a bulldozer CPU.
> 
> The processor name however changed based only on how many threads the VM had available. With eight threads, it showed AMD FX-8130P or AMD FX-8110, with six it showed AMD FX-6110, with four AMD FX-4110, and with two it showed only AMD FX. I believe that CPU-Z uses placeholder name values based on thread counts for bulldozer CPUs based on early model numbers. It will presumably be updated eventually so that it builds the processor name string correctly from CPUID values. (This is a different process from the processor specification, which is a direct binary to ascii decoding).


This also crossed my mind as well but I had no way to prove it. Nice work. Also, if you multiply the 56W in the TDP by four to account for the disabled modules you get 224W which is the same as the chiphell TDP.

I am now starting to think they have a real chip, but here is the catch... Unless, AMD has a ES and a production chip on the B2 same stepping (which would be odd) then the only ES that corresponds to stepping 2 is A1 (A0 then A1). That would also explain why the TDP has "gone up" to 223W over the 186W that we saw in the old B0 leaks.

I think AMD saved up a bunch of A1 ES for this event and some of them leaked out. This OC thing did not happen today, but at the end of August which is about the same time stepping 2 (rev. blank) leaks started happening. Coincidence? Maybe not.


----------



## emersonsc

yup. It was a reception for the record they broke... news that came out on the 9th, 5 days ago. Yet another AMD flop


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14924963*
> On the unstable chip at 4.8GHz he says 4.8GHz at 1.5v "on this particular chip".
> 
> Since they had several trays worth of chips and a few days to go through them I would think unstable at 1.5v @ 4.8GHz will be one of the better clocking chips.
> 
> 1.5v is a bit more than I would run with my chip 24/7, but that's apples to oranges at this point, I can't even use Phenom II as a base to guess with since it's a whole new design. Thought it seems to tolerate more top end voltage than Phenom II the AMD site specifically stated they killed a lot of hardware to doing this.


It may not be a good chip, it may not be a bad chip.
We may be looking too far into it, for all we know he was fishing for an example and that was the first one he thought of.

And we can't even compare voltage you use on Intel to AMD, different processes, eg. Intel 45nm goes up to 1.45v max, AMD 45nm can go to 1.6v with watercooling and still last a while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14928005*
> Odd for sure, where does the Max TDP come from anyways?
> 
> I remember seeing it awhile ago, but 1.57.1 doesn't even have it either...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a version of cpuz that shows TDP?


It doesn't seem to on my desktop:








Yet it does on my laptop:









I think it depends on which chip you have.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14928483*
> so balla ment mt/s not mhz? Why is this so difficult believe? Hasn't ddr3 1800 been out for awhile?


DDR sends data on the rise and fall of the clock, so having 900Mhz RAM effectively becomes 1800Mhz.

And not CAS2, that hasn't been around since DDR1 at 400Mhz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14928562*
> 900MHz at CAS2? I haven't even seen Hypers do that.
> 
> Could also be a CPUz glitch, but again....the current AM3+ boards are fully supported.


The IMC is in the CPU, if the CPU reports it differently then it doesn't matter what the board says.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


This also crossed my mind as well but I had no way to prove it. Nice work. Also, if you multiply the 56W in the TDP by four to account for the disabled modules you get 224W which is the same as the chiphell TDP.

I am now starting to think they have a real chip, but here is the catch... Unless, AMD has a ES and a production chip on the B2 same stepping (which would be odd) then the only ES that corresponds to stepping 2 is A1 (A0 then A1). That would also explain why the TDP has "gone up" to 223W over the 186W that we saw in the old B0 leaks.

I think AMD saved up a bunch of A1 ES for this event and some of them leaked out. This OC thing did not happen today, but at the end of August which is about the same time stepping 2 (rev. blank) leaks started happening. Coincidence? Maybe not.


Thanks JCP! I'm not quite following your A0 A1 logic however. As far as I can tell with AMD families 15h, 14h, and 12h (Bulldozer, Bobcat and Llano), alphanumeric steppings derive from BOTH the Model value and the Stepping Value :

A0 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 0, 
A1 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 1 (think of the earliest Zambezi CPU-Z shots, april time frame)
A2 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 2 (I don't think there was ever an A2 Bulldozer)

B0 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 0
B1 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 1
B2 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 2

C0 stepping would be Model 2 Stepping 0 (based on a cpuid dump for the new C0 E-450)

So there could be a "Stepping 2" engineering sample, but if it is Model 1 Stepping 2, it is definitely B2, and not A1.

For interest, this site contains a vast quantity of CPUID dumps.


----------



## mav2000

Any update on the event??


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav2000*


Any update on the event??


It seems like it was just bragging about the 8.4GHz overclock...


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Thanks JCP! I'm not quite following your A0 A1 logic however. As far as I can tell with AMD families 15h, 14h, and 12h (Bulldozer, Bobcat and Llano), alphanumeric steppings derive from BOTH the Model value and the Stepping Value :

A0 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 0, 
A1 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 1 (think of the earliest Zambezi CPU-Z shots, april time frame)
A2 stepping is Model 0 Stepping 2 (I don't think there was ever an A2 Bulldozer)

B0 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 0
B1 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 1
B2 stepping is Model 1 Stepping 2

C0 stepping would be Model 2 Stepping 0 (based on a cpuid dump for the new C0 E-450)

So there could be a "Stepping 2" engineering sample, but if it is Model 1 Stepping 2, it is definitely B2, and not A1.

For interest, this site contains a vast quantity of CPUID dumps.


Hmmm, I thought the letter A or B would be in the revision column. I guess I was wrong. As for performance goes I guess we will have to wait and see.


----------



## Darkpriest667

John,

If we Helium cool our processor will it void the warranty? Can you confirm or deny this? I mean you are going to brag about 8+ Ghz OCing I am wondering does any of this void the manufacturer warranty?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


John,

If we Helium cool our processor will it void the warranty? Can you confirm or deny this? I mean you are going to brag about 8+ Ghz OCing I am wondering does any of this void the manufacturer warranty?


Technically it voids the warranty to use any cooling besides the stock HSF, but what AMD doesn't know can't hurt you.


----------



## RAMP4NT

AMD Tweet: "In SF for #IDF2011 this week? We have a few surprises up our sleeve that you won't want to miss. #AMD "

Looks like the info is going to be flowing this whole week then. Good news for us, release must be near









http://twitter.com/#!/AMD_Unprocessed


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Technically it voids the warranty to use any cooling besides the stock HSF, but what AMD doesn't know can't hurt you.


I am guessing you cant OC to 8Ghz on the stock HSF so what the ---- does it matter if you can do it on something AMD doesnt officially sanction under warranty.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


I am guessing you cant OC to 8Ghz on the stock HSF so what the ---- does it matter if you can do it on something AMD doesnt officially sanction under warranty.


The point was not that you can do it at home. I think this all went a little over your head. This was purely for record purposes. AMD also displayed an Antec cooled CPU doing 4.8Ghz and running Heaven Benchmark, so that was more of the practical side. Again, the extreme tests were to break the record, not to show you what you can do, that is a fact. Same thing when extreme OCers take suicide runs with Intel, it's not because that's what Intel intended with the stock cooling, it's because they want to hit the highest number.

If we used your logic, technically it doesn't matter that the 2500k reaches 5.1Ghz or whatever it does, cause who really did that without voiding warranty? 

But anyway, 4.8 on closed Antec Kuhler water cooling, sources sighted a dozen times in the last few pages. Check it out







Maybe you can get an Antec? Or a corsair, if there's a spill, they cover damaged parts, so you're covered.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


I am guessing you cant OC to 8Ghz on the stock HSF so what the ---- does it matter if you can do it on something AMD doesnt officially sanction under warranty.


You really expect AMD to not void your warranty if you overclock your CPU? You do it at your own risk.

Intel does the same.

Also, this is a record breaking overclocking demonstration. I don't think most people have liquid helium lying around.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


John,

If we Helium cool our processor will it void the warranty? Can you confirm or deny this? I mean you are going to brag about 8+ Ghz OCing I am wondering does any of this void the manufacturer warranty?


Not sure if serious.

First thing John is in servers and doesn't overclock. But more than that, before you ask a stupid question just look at the bottom of the FX page on AMD's site and you will see that OC's are not covered. Real easy.

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces...processor.aspx

Still a lot of us are going to OC anyway so hearing that BD clocks great (4.8 on average air/closed loop, 5+ on great air and custom water, and of course 8+ for the xtreme benchers) excited many of us. If you think it pointless to market it clockability then rather than make a pointless post -- just save us all the trouble at not post at all.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


No because high clocks does not automatically mean BD=Netburst. And if AMD did happen to recreate Netburst then folks will buy SB just like people bought Althon back in the day.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


Idk about core design, but why would Netburst have any relation what-so-ever with BD? They both have the same strength (extremely high core clocks achievable), but given that they are "Apples and oranges," to expect them to suffer similar weaknesses is baseless. I'm not saying BD won't have downsides, they all do, but they will be unique ones at least.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14930777*
> Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


Somewhat. didn't amd make a longer pipeline on the fx to achieve higher clocks, which if i recall is the same thing intel did with netburst?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14930810*
> Somewhat. didn't amd make a longer pipeline on the fx to achieve higher clocks, which if i recall is the same thing intel did with netburst?


That's what I was thinking while making a PB&J sandwich, I don't know much about this sort of stuff though so I figured I'd ask.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


I'm not an expert or anything, but I'd say it depends. High clock designs have succeeded in the server world (IBM POWER). The main reason why NetBurst failed was because it was terribly hot. We'll see; it could go either way. We don't know enough specifics yet.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


You really expect AMD to not void your warranty if you overclock your CPU? You do it at your own risk.

Intel does the same.

Also, this is a record breaking overclocking demonstration. I don't think most people have liquid helium lying around.



Well the fact is I havent overclocked since pentium 1 60 Mhz.... I will not... Heat is the enemy of a machine... using water or any liquid to cool the processor is taking a risk. I am about reliability and stability. If I want to take a risk I'll go horse race gambling.

As for it going over my head no, no it doesnt. Its record peen and for them, they are trying to one up intel in the Ghz race and to do it in this style after the delays (that were constantly denied I might add) is in bad taste.

If they don't care about the enthusiast (the only people that probably would ever attempt something like WCing or Hcing or Ncing) then what does this record really matter? In 6 months it will be broken anyway. They're also doing it with a processor thats not even on the market. Hopefully that last part will change. Kudos to them for doing it but still. It didn't knock me out of my chair.


----------



## Bloodcore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD_Unprocessed*

In SF for #IDF2011 this week? We have a few surprises up our sleeve that you won't want to miss. #AMD


Seems the world record isn't the only surprise.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Well the fact is I havent overclocked since pentium 1 60 Mhz.... I will not... Heat is the enemy of a machine... using water or any liquid to cool the processor is taking a risk. I am about reliability and stability. If I want to take a risk I'll go horse race gambling.

As for it going over my head no, no it doesnt. Its record peen and for them, they are trying to one up intel in the Ghz race and to do it in this style after the delays (that were constantly denied I might add) is in bad taste.

If they don't care about the enthusiast (the only people that probably would ever attempt something like WCing or Hcing or Ncing) then what does this record really matter? In 6 months it will be broken anyway. They're also doing it with a processor thats not even on the market. Hopefully that last part will change. Kudos to them for doing it but still. It didn't knock me out of my chair.


You just say that you don't care about overclocking, something that almost all enthusiasts do, and that it's irrelevant for AMD to brag about it... then you accuse AMD of not caring about the enthusiast?









And one of the things SB has going for it is overclockability. The 2500k can be as little as 5% faster than the 1090T if you don't overclock it.

Also, who cares that you haven't overclocked in like 15 years?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14930777*
> Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


Not really, AMD and Intel 45nm got to 7Ghz (iirc) so it may be just as much due to the node as the total IPC, that said, Netbursts main failure was that it put out a lot of heat while not doing much work, if BD doesn't do much work per clock but beats SBs average overclock to a point where they're equal, without being too hot, I'd say it'd be worth a longer pipeline.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14930799*
> Idk about core design, but why would Netburst have any relation what-so-ever with BD? They both have the same strength (extremely high core clocks achievable), but given that they are "Apples and oranges," to expect them to suffer similar weaknesses is baseless. I'm not saying BD won't have downsides, they all do, but they will be unique ones at least.


Netburst was designed from the ground up to clock very well and not do much else.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bloodcore;14930863*
> Seems the world record isn't the only surprise.


Delay, delay, delay!! Now they pull our strings? Another surprise?? So we are puppets?? Its insulting if you ask me!! come-on....... just get this over with AMD and tell us what you have to offer for performance so we can make a decision.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14930777*
> Does it concern anyone here who knows core design that AMDs new chips just outed the worst cpus ever (netburst) in MHz?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14930810*
> Somewhat. didn't amd make a longer pipeline on the fx to achieve higher clocks, which if i recall is the same thing intel did with netburst?


Precisely.... Same strategy. Seriously, from a market perspective, 8 cores @ 4.2ghz TC in the paper ad will generate great sales. 90% of the pc market know gigahertz and cores, thats it. Take away the core factor and its Netburst all over. From an architectual standpoint, well, i'll quote a member from XS (xsecret) AKA Doc_TB from carnard_pc. He claims to have a B2 sample.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by informal
> Well the only issue with what xsecret said ,that I see, is that he confirms that Chinese(VRzone) leaked numbers are true or close to what he has seen under NDA. Mind you that those numbers show 8120 @ 3.1Ghz scoring lower than Deneb X4 in 3dmark06 CPU subtest ,for instance. IMO this is hard to believe since even on paper,those 4 FPUs inside Zambezi are much more powerfully than 4 Deneb FPUs. Similar goes for Cinebench,wprime etc. The design has to be seriously borked in order to perform worse than quad core Deneb at similar clock(8C Bulldozer vs QC Deneb).


response:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by xsecret
> High raw throughput for an FP unit is nice. But in order to use this power in real-world application, you need a frontend able to feed it correctly. That means massive code optimization and a good compiler, in best case. And keep in mind the horribly slow L1 Write-Through, probably added in order to remove a bottleneck in frequency scaling. Write-Through means your writing from the frontend to the L2 "through" the L1. So, seen from the frontend, the L1 write bandwidth is as "slow" as the L2 write bandwidth. The last µarch to use that horrible trick was Netburst, with high frequencies in mind. Bulldozer comes with a L1 WT too and that point only could explain many disappointments from a performances point of view.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by informal View Post
> So you re pretty sure Bulldozer will be slower than Thuban per core? And you are pretty sure you have final platform in your hands? If this is true then the design is truly broken is some way. Still doesn't make any sense to me. AMD knew the perf. level of Nehalem by middle of 2008 probably. They knew intel will just go up from there(Westmere,SB,SB-E,IB). And you are telling me that with all this foreknowledge they opted for Netburst-like design that is actually less competitive Vs Core generation 1 (Merom) while having only 15%-20% higher frequency potential than Family 10h ? This is ridiculous.


response:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by xsecret View Post
> Was a P4 slower than a P3 ? Sometimes no, sometimes yes, depending on the software. The absolute performance is not something so important for AMD. The most important thing is money. And just money. Spending gazillions dollars in R&D to reach the performance of a CPU sold in very low quantities (and generating very low incomes) like the 990X is ridiculous. Bulldozer must solve two problems : 1/ Be able to gain performances (with frequency increases) at mid-term without spending more gazillions in another µarch 2/ Compete with Intel *mainstream* CPUs (and not Extreme CPU) with a similar price/performance ratio.


All make sense, especially now that the pricing is revealed. Flame me ALL you want. I'm still getting BD, low IPC and all. 8cores to mess around with @ 5ghz will be a good time for a good price, i'm not knocking AMD. Let's see how this all pans out and take this with a grain of salt.


----------



## Fr0sty

please stop the netburst refference


----------



## Jinny1

So guys what was this "BIG" news that they were gonna announce?


----------



## Rebelord

As most of us are assuming. It was the whole World Record setting was the announcement. Guess we have to wait more for when we can finally get our own BD chips.


----------



## Jinny1

why does your system say FX-8150 in the sig....


----------



## Rebelord

Because thats the chip to hopefully get for this new build as long as BD pans out. Otherwise, I'll sell my UD7 and just wait for SB-E to release.
This is the system I currently using: Sixthelement


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;14931183*
> All make sense, especially now that the pricing is revealed. Flame me ALL you want. I'm still getting BD, low IPC and all. 8cores to mess around with @ 5ghz will be a good time for a good price, i'm not knocking AMD. Let's see how this all pans out and take this with a grain of salt.


Not sure how AMD will sell many CPUs if at stock it is not an noticeable upgrade over what people already own. Will some, like yourself, buy them just to OC and play around with new tech? ... sure -- but that is not going to make AMD very much money.

I have been following that thread over at xs and while xsecret acts like he has insider info, I find it hard to believe that BD is as bad as he says. If the current leaks are true, then BD (at stock) will have a hard time being competitive with Thuban much less SB.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14931168*
> Delay, delay, delay!! Now they pull our strings? Another surprise?? So we are puppets?? Its insulting if you ask me!! come-on....... just get this over with AMD and tell us what you have to offer for performance so we can make a decision.


CALM DOWN DUDE.









no one is in a rush to buy an 8 core cpu imo. normal pc people don't need 8 cores.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14931421*
> Not sure how AMD will sell many CPUs if at stock it is not an noticeable upgrade over what people already own. Will some, like yourself, buy them just to OC and play around with new tech? ... sure -- but that is not going to make AMD very much money.


amd's bread and butter is with amd fusion APUs. APUs are the future.


----------



## GuyInc0gnit0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


CALM DOWN DUDE.









no one is in a rush to buy an 8 core cpu imo. normal pc people don't need 8 cores.


"8 core" cpu with 4 FPUs. My guess is that its FPU performance will not be 2x previous generation amd cpus.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Not sure how AMD will sell many CPUs if at stock it is not an noticeable upgrade over what people already own. Will some, like yourself, buy them just to OC and play around with new tech? ... sure -- but that is not going to make AMD very much money.

I have been following that thread over at xs and while xsecret acts like he has insider info, I find it hard to believe that BD is as bad as he says. If the current leaks are true, then BD (at stock) will have a hard time being competitive with Thuban much less SB.


I'm not going to say anything to the performance effect...

However I will say that I believe AMD is well aware that almost all their sales are to ignorant people. The 10% of people in the know that represents our part of the market isn't the market they're trying to move in on against Intel.

Bulldozer x8's have 4 256 bit fpu when combined or eight 126 bit units when working as individual units (do the math on the lesser models), however I'm not really sure why we're discussing FP since that is more server related and x86 does very poorly with it vs gpgpu anyways. Most of us here never use FP in our normal usage.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


amd's bread and butter is with amd fusion APUs. APUs are the future.


it's not my future. & i have a stroong feeling it's going to be many more years before they approach replacing dedicated graphics cards.


----------



## GuyInc0gnit0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm not going to say anything to the performance effect...

However I will say that I believe AMD is well aware that almost all their sales are to ignorant people. The 10% of people in the know that represents our part of the market isn't the market they're trying to move in on against Intel.

Bulldozer x8's have 4 256 bit fpu when combined or eight 126 bit units when working as individual units (do the math on the lesser models), however I'm not really sure why we're discussing FP since that is more server related and x86 does very poorly with it vs gpgpu anyways. Most of us here never use FP in our normal usage.


You have that backwards. File servers, web servers, etc. do not use floating point.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I don't really know what is using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.

I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pale_neon*


it's not my future. & i have a stroong feeling it's going to be many more years before they approach replacing dedicated graphics cards.


we all know it is. there are more people with laptops and tablets than there are people with desktops i'm sure. And of course there are more laptops and tablets being sold than desktops. obviously amd should be more focused on apus. dedicated graphics cards will continue to exist for quite some time however...but that 10 percent enthusiast market will continue to wither away with each passing year as desktop towers finally become a thing of the past..


----------



## GuyInc0gnit0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't really know what using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.

I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


Well, Samba does not rely on floating point variables. I can grep the source code and look for any non-integer variables, but I doubt there are too many.

Adobe Premiere is an FPU user...but that still performs much better with intel's quicksync or CUDA.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


we all know it is. there are more people with laptops and tablets than there are people with desktops i'm sure. And of course there are more laptops and tablets being sold than desktops. obviously amd should be more focused on apus. dedicated graphics cards will continue to exist for quite some time however...but that 10 percent enthusiast market will continue to wither away with each passing year as desktop towers finally become a thing of the past..


Hah, is that what you honestly think? Tablets are nothing more than a toy. Remember pdas. Yeah I'm sure we all forget about them by now. Tablets are in the same boat as them as I see it. Laptops haven't replaced desktops. Go to a persons house, and they usually have atleast one desktop. The thing is the average computer doesn't upgrade his computer often. He'll buy a desktop and sit on it for 8-10 years or more. Most people don't keep up with the latest tech. But they still need a PC for office work, taxes, etc. Which will always be easier on a desktop.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Bulldozer x8's have 4 256 bit fpu when combined or eight 126 bit units when working as individual units (do the math on the lesser models), however I'm not really sure why we're discussing FP since that is more server related and x86 does very poorly with it vs gpgpu anyways. Most of us here never use FP in our normal usage.


The 4 256bit FPUs are actually 4 512bit FPUs

you have 4 x 128bit Components in the Coprocessor that is 512bits










Pipe 0 and 1 are Floating Point and Pipe 0, 2 and 3 are Integer

In my workloads I use 0, 2 and 3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't really know what is using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.

I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


99% of all Average Desktop Applications are Integer
Enthusiasts are around the 90% mark but you still have Integer being the more important object


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm not going to say anything to the performance effect...

However I will say that I believe AMD is well aware that almost all their sales are to ignorant people. The 10% of people in the know that represents our part of the market isn't the market they're trying to move in on against Intel.

Bulldozer x8's have 4 256 bit fpu when combined or eight 126 bit units when working as individual units (do the math on the lesser models), however I'm not really sure why we're discussing FP since that is more server related and x86 does very poorly with it vs gpgpu anyways. Most of us here never use FP in our normal usage.


To be clear, I am talking about Zambezi sales only, the "ignorant" people will be buying Llano no matter if Bulldozer's IPC is the same as P4 or 100% better than SB.

Of the people Zambezi is marketed towards most will read reviews and know whether it is an upgrade over their PH II. I do expect some FX chips to end up in OEM boxes, but I would not expect OEMs to go crazy buying up more expensive, poorer performing chips when they already have PH II in stock not to mention llano is way cheaper and easy to market as an all-around platform.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Of the people Zambezi is marketed towards most will read reviews and know whether it is an upgrade over their PH II. I do expect some FX chips to end up in OEM boxes, but I would not expect OEMs to go crazy buying up more expensive, poorer performing chips when they already have PH II in stock not to mention llano is way cheaper and easy to market as an all-around platform.


It is an upgrade and it will be in OEM boxes

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...er-system.aspx


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


It is an upgrade and it will be in OEM boxes

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...er-system.aspx


Not sure what this proves. I said it will be in OEM boxes and I have seen no leaks to date that show it to be an upgrade. If you have seen them then please post. All we know is that BD will clock better, but people buying OEM boxes (and even some enthusiasts) will not overclock.

My point is simple. If BD performs like the leaks they will have a very hard selling Zambezi. I am hoping that it will perform quite a bit better than the leaks... or else they will have lost my (and I am sure many many others) business.

And while the processor aware are few, since FX will not be huge with OEMs (OEMs are going to be selling mostly Llano), AMD will need PIBs sales to make FX a winner.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Delay, delay, delay!! Now they pull our strings? Another surprise?? So we are puppets?? Its insulting if you ask me!! come-on....... just get this over with AMD and tell us what you have to offer for performance so we can make a decision.


Tip of the day: Decaf.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


My point is simple. If BD performs like the leaks they will have a very hard selling Zambezi. I am hoping that it will perform quite a bit better than the leaks... or else they will have lost my (and I am sure many many others) business.


My point is simple. Read what JF-AMD says If the benchmarks are true or false they are still not representative until you get these all checked off

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly
Final production silicon
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

These are the important ones for windows folk

Final production silicon
Nope
Final processor microcode
Unknown
Final system BIOS
Nope
Final OS optimizaitons
Unknown
Final drivers
Unknown
An app compiled with the latest flags
Nope
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly
Usually Nope if the first is Nope


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


My point is simple. Read what JF-AMD says If the benchmarks are true or false they are still not representative until you get these all checked off

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly
Final production silicon
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

These are the important ones for windows folk

Final production silicon
Nope
Final processor microcode
Unknown
Final system BIOS
Nope
Final OS optimizaitons
Unknown
Final drivers
Unknown
An app compiled with the latest flags
Nope
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly
Usually Nope if the first is Nope



I understand all that. Which is why I said *IF* BD performs like the leaks. Trust me I hope it performs much better.


----------



## Fr0sty

not much more to wait i guess


----------



## mav2000

Guess is all we have at the moment....What happened to the announcement that was supposed to come out today? Was it the extreme overclocking event?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav2000*


Guess is all we have at the moment....What happened to the announcement that was supposed to come out today? Was it the extreme overclocking event?


yes ... that was it


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dafour*


I dont get why they can push the chip to 8.4,but not showing us a benchmark.


NDA has not yet been lifted


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


*Tl;dr: Stop nitpicking over what info AMD releases. CPU-z shots from recent leaks of â€œretail performanceâ€ are likely fake.*


The fact that the company who would have the greatest access to production parts was using engineering samples for their demos should be an indication that some guy sitting in his basement in the middle of ohio probably doesn't have access to production silicon.

Let's just say that all CPU-z screens are fake, it makes things so much easier than arguing over the different versions floating around.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't really know what is using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.

I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


Some technical applications. Most apps use light FP, ~10% of what happens in the typical CPU is FP. 90% is integer, but when FP comes up it is dispatched. Think of it like a single slow car on a 10 lane highway. Even rendering and gaming will use it, but a very small percentage of the time. So small in fact, and with the long pipelines/high latency, speeding up FP will not appreciably impact most apps because there just isn't enough of a reliance on that. Imagine cooking a big meal and then suddenly learning how to chop vegetables faster. It makes that task faster, but in the grand scheme of making a dinner, little impact.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Laptops haven't replaced desktops.


Not replaced, but replacing.

It used to be 5-10% of computers were laptops. Now it is 55%, more than half of all client systems. And that is continuing to grow every quarter. We are probably 3-5 years away from the big box PCs being ~10-20% of the market. Traditional towers and desktops are also being replaced by small form factor PCs with less expandability because the majority of the market does not need these things. I have an antec sonata case with 1 DVD ROM, 1 HD and 1 video card (that I don't really need) on a uATX board. When I build a BD system later this year, it will have integrated graphics on the board so I won't need a card. I could use a much smaller case. My windows home server is in a mini-itx case.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


The 4 256bit FPUs are actually 4 512bit FPUs

you have 4 x 128bit Components in the Coprocessor that is 512bits

99% of all Average Desktop Applications are Integer
Enthusiasts are around the 90% mark but you still have Integer being the more important object


No, the 4 256-bit FPUs are built on 8 128-bit FMACs.

While you claim that 99% of the apps are integer, even within them, about 90% of the math on standard apps is integer, ~10% is FP.

Consumer apps (and enthusiast apps) will continue to use SSE or *maybe* AVX-128. AVX-256 will be the province of highly technical server apps. People getting fired up about AVX-256 (or even AVX-128) are going to be upset when they find out that most of their FP is still going to be SSE because it is not worth recompiling if there is little benefit. Server apps (mostly HPC) is where the recompiling will happen.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

But what was the thing they were suppose to reveal last night at the Fusion Cocktail event?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


But what was the thing they were suppose to reveal last night at the Fusion Cocktail event?


the 8.4ghz cpu-z screenshot ... a.k.a cpuz world reccord

isnt that enough to create a big stir over the community???


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Fr0Sty I don't think that was it though, granted I am probably wrong since we have heard nothing from the Fusion Party. In the newsletter invite they stated to be sure you arrive before 7:00pm.


----------



## GuyInc0gnit0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Consumer apps (and enthusiast apps) will continue to use SSE or *maybe* AVX-128. AVX-256 will be the province of highly technical server apps. People getting fired up about AVX-256 (or even AVX-128) are going to be upset when they find out that most of their FP is still going to be SSE because it is not worth recompiling if there is little benefit. *Server apps* (mostly HPC) is where the recompiling will happen.


Which "server" apps?

Where I work as a sysadmin, the "servers" are running samba, sendmail, apache, etc., while the dozens of workstations are running AutoCAD. I'm not sure what you guys keep calling server apps.


----------



## Fr0sty

other things will be announced shortly from the look of it .. but for now the world reccord is a good start


----------



## OverShocked

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


other things will be announced shortly from the look of it .. but for now the world reccord is a good start


How do you know?
Other things from the even last night?


----------



## Fr0sty

from some twitter post posted a couple pages ago


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GuyInc0gnit0*


Which "server" apps?

Where I work as a sysadmin, the "servers" are running samba, sendmail, apache, etc., while the dozens of workstations are running AutoCAD. I'm not sure what you guys keep calling server apps.


exchange, oracle, SQL server, apache, mysql, vmware, hyperV, fluent, starCD, to name a few.

AutoCAD is run on the workstation but there is a back end component that can be run on the client as well.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


from some twitter post posted a couple pages ago


why would anyone believe some twitter post, how does anyone know who its by, or if they are who they claim to be


----------



## GuyInc0gnit0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


*exchange*, *oracle*, *SQL* server, *apache*, *mysql*, vmware, hyperV, fluent, starCD, to name a few.


What _use_ do mail, database and web server software have for SSE or any floating point computations?

EDIT: I just downloaded the latest sendmail source code and looked for "double" and "float": Variables of type double were used in two places: doing some computation with disk space and load average. In other words, there is barely any use for floating point variables in this case.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


why would anyone believe some twitter post, how does anyone know who its by, or if they are who they claim to be


Perhaps because it was from AMD's official "AMD_Unprocessed" twitter account?

All they said was this "In SF for #IDF2011 this week? We have a few surprises up our sleeve that you won't want to miss. #AMD" which was posted about seven hours ago. Since it was posted long after the world record news broke, you might expect they have a few more things to say.


----------



## OverShocked

Am i the only one who f5's this thread every 2 min?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Just keep in mind that the launch is still likely at the beginning of October. 
Which is when we'll get benchmarks and firm prices of course.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Perhaps because it was from AMD's official "AMD_Unprocessed" twitter account?

All they said was this "In SF for #IDF2011 this week? We have a few surprises up our sleeve that you won't want to miss. #AMD" which was posted about seven hours ago. Since it was posted long after the world record news broke, you might expect they have a few more things to say.


this!!!

since it came directly from amd it means they have other things to share with us


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


QFT. I remember reading on... AMDZone I think... that CPU-Z said someone's Opteron was running at 222THz.











Mine CPUZ glitched at full load in linx, guys at oc event didnÂ´t use any cpu load apps.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OverShocked*


Am i the only one who f5's this thread every 2 min?


Haha when I'm at work I try to keep tabs on it as often as I can. At home not so much...I disabled USB legacy support and now I can't get into my bios to fix my bootmgr









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Just keep in mind that the launch is still likely at the beginning of October. 
Which is when we'll get benchmarks and firm prices of course.


True, but for the most part this is like "Days of Our Lives" to me, I need to keep up on my stories. And who knows when NDA will be lifted and some real benchmarks come out. But, it is safe to say they'll show up on here asap.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


True, but for the most part this is like "Days of Our Lives" to me, I need to keep up on my stories. And who knows when NDA will be lifted and some real benchmarks come out. But, it is safe to say they'll show up on here asap.


Oh yeah. 
You won't catch me selling my 8150 like... ever. 
It's going to be that "one chip" that I don't want to get rid of. 
Kind of like my E6600 that I still have.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Same here....just make sure you click and ad here and there to help OCN


----------



## jck

Hey John...I have sort of a legit question:

Do you know of any reason I shouldn't run Windows XP x64 Professional with a AMD Bulldozer-based FX desktop chip?

Just curious if there's anything you know of and can comment on from a perspective of using legacy OSes with the new architecture.

SSDs supposedly "work better" with Windows 7, so I wanted to make sure there were no surprises when I load XP x64 with Zambezi.

Thanks for any info you can give.


----------



## radaja

heres what AMD announced last night,28nm GPU from what i can tell?

Quote:



Proving IDF is not all about Intel, AMD has demonstrated the first working 28nm GPUs to the public. The development platform was notebook based, thus the working product was a "28nm next gen notebook discrete GPU".


*AMD demonstrates 28nm GPU*

but i might be wrong?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Not sure how AMD will sell many CPUs if at stock it is not an noticeable upgrade over what people already own. Will some, like yourself, buy them just to OC and play around with new tech? ... sure -- but that is not going to make AMD very much money.

I have been following that thread over at xs and while xsecret acts like he has insider info, I find it hard to believe that BD is as bad as he says. If the current leaks are true, then BD (at stock) will have a hard time being competitive with Thuban much less SB.



AMD's enthusiast market doesn't make them much money anyways. BD is a server design, migrated to desktop. Not the other way around. This thing was designed for more cores at similar costs. The server marketshare will prosper thus AMD will make good money off of Bulldozer. And once again, 90% of the PC market will see 8 cores & 4ghz. It's a WIN from AMD on a market sharepoint. The desktops have to make up for their server roots with massive clockspeed.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933374*
> Hey John...I have sort of a legit question:
> 
> Do you know of any reason I shouldn't run Windows XP x64 Professional with a AMD Bulldozer-based FX desktop chip?
> 
> Just curious if there's anything you know of and can comment on from a perspective of using legacy OSes with the new architecture.
> 
> SSDs supposedly "work better" with Windows 7, so I wanted to make sure there were no surprises when I load XP x64 with Zambezi.
> 
> Thanks for any info you can give.


I would think that MS will not offer the Driver support for Zambezi in XP. I could be wrong but I do not think MS will want to spend the money to invest in developing driver support for the chip in an OS version they will soon no longer support.
EDIT: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I would think that MS will not offer the Driver support for Zambezi in XP. I could be wrong but I do not think MS will want to spend the money to invest in developing driver support for the chip in an OS version they will soon no longer support.
EDIT: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE










If your opinion is true, this gives me 2 options:

No upgrade

Move to Linux

I own another several licenses for Windows XP x64 Pro. I don't feel like paying another $150 on top of ~$400-450 for the FX 8150 + Asus Sabertooth 990FX...because I need Windows 7.

Hopefully, John can give me some official insight.


----------



## Fooliobass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14933590*
> I would think that MS will not offer the Driver support for Zambezi in XP. I could be wrong but I do not think MS will want to spend the money to invest in developing driver support for the chip in an OS version they will soon no longer support.
> EDIT: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE


Wiki (most reliable source, right (-







says "Extended Support until April 8, 2014 for Windows XP with Service Pack 3 and Windows XP x64 Edition with Service Pack 2 (Paid support is still available)". I know its not very official but for JCK it might be helpful.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Yeah but in this day and age, its time to let go of XP. Of course I am still running XP at home but only until I build my new Bulldozer rig then I am going Win7









Edit: I do hope JF can answer his question though. Would be nice to continue using my XP Liscense







for another build. Granted its only 32 bit


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933625*
> If your opinion is true, this gives me 2 options:
> 
> No upgrade
> 
> Move to Linux
> 
> I own another several licenses for Windows XP x64 Pro. I don't feel like paying another $150 on top of ~$400-450 for the FX 8150 + Asus Sabertooth 990FX...because I need Windows 7.
> 
> Hopefully, John can give me some official insight.


Do you have a .edu account? I think you can get Windows 7 cheap still. Don't quote me on that though.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14930529*
> John,
> 
> If we Helium cool our processor will it void the warranty? Can you confirm or deny this? I mean you are going to brag about 8+ Ghz OCing I am wondering does any of this void the manufacturer warranty?


Why do you bother to try to bait John? He's smart enough to Ignore you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14930856*
> *Well the fact is I havent overclocked since pentium 1 60 Mhz.... I will not...* Heat is the enemy of a machine... using water or any liquid to cool the processor is taking a risk. I am about reliability and stability. If I want to take a risk I'll go horse race gambling.
> 
> As for it going over my head no, no it doesnt. Its record peen and for them, they are trying to one up intel in the Ghz race and to do it in this style after the delays (that were constantly denied I might add) is in bad taste.
> So this Post just proves your last post was nothing but a Troll attempt. GG
> 
> If they don't care about the enthusiast (the only people that probably would ever attempt something like WCing or Hcing or Ncing) then what does this record really matter? In 6 months it will be broken anyway. They're also doing it with a processor thats not even on the market. Hopefully that last part will change. Kudos to them for doing it but still. It didn't knock me out of my chair.


So this Post just proves your last post was nothing but a Troll attempt. GG

And there is no way any silicon will take the crown till possibly IB (And doubtful at that). But don't worry all the Intel Fanboys are out there dusting off there old p4 chips to try. IF BD can take the crown with an ES wait till production throws out chips to the public and then the process gets refined! AMD will hold this crown for a very Long time.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14931168*
> Delay, delay, delay!! Now they pull our strings? Another surprise?? So we are puppets?? Its insulting if you ask me!! come-on....... just get this over with AMD and tell us what you have to offer for performance so we can make a decision.


I love to OverClock, W0W fancy that, that's why I'm here! I ordered board and Mem yesterday. Why? Because Bulldozer has just proved to be the most overclockable chip in generations! And I for one am going to have a lot of fun with this chip!




































Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14931517*
> I'm not going to say anything to the performance effect...
> 
> However I will say that I believe AMD is well aware that almost all their sales are to ignorant people. The 10% of people in the know that represents our part of the market isn't the market they're trying to move in on against Intel.
> 
> *Bulldozer x8's have 4 256 bit fpu when combined or eight 126 bit units when working as individual units (do the math on the lesser models), however I'm not really sure why we're discussing FP since that is more server related and x86 does very poorly with it vs gpgpu anyways. Most of us here never use FP in our normal usage.*


Wrong.






















AFA 90% ignorant consumers that is true for all CPU's not just AMD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14931571*
> *I don't really know what is using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.*
> 
> I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


Then stop posting your incorrect info as fact! -rep for you.









Boy your colors really flying today.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GuyInc0gnit0;14932582*
> Which "server" apps?
> 
> Where I work as a sysadmin, the "servers" are running samba, sendmail, apache, etc., while the dozens of workstations are running AutoCAD. I'm not sure what you guys keep calling server apps.


Databases!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14933337*
> ...I disabled USB legacy support and now I can't get into my bios to fix my bootmgr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...










reason I keep a ps2 kybd around just like a pci vid card (not really needed as much these days).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14933441*
> heres what AMD announced last night,28nm GPU from what i can tell?
> *AMD demonstrates 28nm GPU*
> 
> but i might be wrong?


How much is that chip OC'd?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14933590*
> I would think that MS will not offer the Driver support for Zambezi in XP. I could be wrong but I do not think MS will want to spend the money to invest in developing driver support for the chip in an OS version they will soon no longer support.
> EDIT: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE


IMO, I believe this to be false.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fooliobass;14933796*
> Wiki (most reliable source, right (-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> says "Extended Support until April 8, 2014 for Windows XP with Service Pack 3 and Windows XP x64 Edition with Service Pack 2 (Paid support is still available)". I know its not very official but for JCK it might be helpful.


I won't need tech support really. I've been using windows 20 years. I can even still tell you how to go and change the title bar of Program Manager in Windows 3.1x so that it reads "Program Mangler" (what me and my buddies did lol)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14933852*
> Yeah but in this day and age, its time to let go of XP. Of course I am still running XP at home but only until I build my new Bulldozer rig then I am going Win7


Yeah, but like I said. It's not worth it to me to pay another 33% for an OS upgrade to an OS that offers me no improvement for the additional investment. I have an SSD. XP x64 Pro patched takes 4 seconds longer than Windows 7 patched to boot. 4 Seconds. $150. Wow.

Plus, I know all my applications that I've written and purchased are Windows XP compatible. Not sure if they all run under Win7, cause I've never installed them on my last build or laptop that has it.

I'm not letting go of XP because it is a sure thing to run what I have, and offers me all the functionality I need.

Ribbons? SSD TRIM support? 4 second faster boot? for $150?

No thanks. I'll stay antiquated.

Hopefully Bulldozer will not have any issues with it.

XP x64 Pro does everything I need.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14933910*
> Do you have a .edu account? I think you can get Windows 7 cheap still. Don't quote me on that though.


Nope. Haven't been a student in almost 20 years...unless you consider vo-tech classes for my job "student" lol


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14933921*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reason I keep a ps2 kybd around just like a pci vid card (not really needed as much these days).


I know...
I just moved and just got my new computer parts because FedEx decided to see just how many times it would roll when dropped out of the back of their truck on the interstate. Unfortunately, I didn't pack my ps2 kb and didn't buy a new one...

Microcenter today tho!


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933945*
> INope. Haven't been a student in almost 20 years...unless you consider vo-tech classes for my job "student" lol
> 
> XP x64 Pro does everything I need.


Same here (well not 20 years, just not in school...), but luckily my school allowed us to keep our .edu accounts.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933374*
> Hey John...I have sort of a legit question:
> 
> Do you know of any reason I shouldn't run Windows XP x64 Professional with a AMD Bulldozer-based FX desktop chip?
> 
> Just curious if there's anything you know of and can comment on from a perspective of using legacy OSes with the new architecture.
> 
> SSDs supposedly "work better" with Windows 7, so I wanted to make sure there were no surprises when I load XP x64 with Zambezi.
> 
> Thanks for any info you can give.


I can't speak to your OS choice, that is more a matter of your applications than anything else. Each generation of OS does a better job of managing the memory resources and making more use of the 64-bit addressing.

The biggest issue in my mind of XP v. W7 is the driver support for your MB.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14934474*
> I can't speak to your OS choice, that is more a matter of your applications than anything else. Each generation of OS does a better job of managing the memory resources and making more use of the 64-bit addressing.
> 
> The biggest issue in my mind of XP v. W7 is the driver support for your MB.


Awesome. Yes, most of my applications are older. I don't have a need, from the applications aspect, to upgrade to Windows Vista, 7, or consider 8 in the future.

I will check with the motherboard makers, and consider that then.

Thank you very much for that input.


----------



## Canis-X

I heard once that XP does not handle multi core procs very well but one of the SP's may have addressed that, not sure. I do know that I love Win7, it is absolutely my favorite OS out of all of the ones that I've used.


----------



## jck

Might have. I don't do a lot of multi-process stuff at home. Here at work, that's different. And, we still use XP Pro 32-bit on most machines (some are Win7 now).

I don't have to have the greatest screaming fast rig ever. I just wanted to make sure that Zambezi won't choke on XP. I didn't figure it would, as long as the same base 64-bit instruction set is applicable.

i'm looking at mobos right now to see what drives are out for them.

Plus, I'm kind of shying away from UEFI since I read it's basically a "software layer" between the firmware and the OS. That's sounds like a security risk to me. But, I could be wrong.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14935354*
> Might have. I don't do a lot of multi-process stuff at home. Here at work, that's different. And, we still use XP Pro 32-bit on most machines (some are Win7 now).
> 
> I don't have to have the greatest screaming fast rig ever. I just wanted to make sure that Zambezi won't choke on XP. I didn't figure it would, as long as the same base 64-bit instruction set is applicable.
> 
> i'm looking at mobos right now to see what drives are out for them.
> 
> Plus, I'm kind of shying away from UEFI since I read it's basically a "software layer" between the firmware and the OS. That's sounds like a security risk to me. But, I could be wrong.


Why are you still using xp


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14935354*
> Might have. I don't do a lot of multi-process stuff at home. Here at work, that's different. And, we still use XP Pro 32-bit on most machines (some are Win7 now).
> 
> I don't have to have the greatest screaming fast rig ever. I just wanted to make sure that Zambezi won't choke on XP. I didn't figure it would, as long as the same base 64-bit instruction set is applicable.
> 
> i'm looking at mobos right now to see what drives are out for them.
> 
> Plus, I'm kind of shying away from UEFI since I read it's basically a "software layer" between the firmware and the OS. That's sounds like a security risk to me. But, I could be wrong.


BIOS is a software layer as well, over 30 years old. Legacy. If anything it's more of a security risk than UEFI.


----------



## JF-AMD

Every generation of OS does a better job of handling more cores and more memory. I haven't seen things go backwards since win me. Vista was a resource hog, but did a better job of managing those resources. Win 7 is the best on the windows side.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Hueristic, what are you talking about?

JF given how much the desktop market is dying out, is it safe to assume AMDs present and future design philosophies are developed with severs/HPC as the primary end game?


----------



## Canis-X

This looks pretty positive for good ol' BD....









http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275098-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-8150-at-8429-MHz&p=4949106&viewfull=1#post4949106


----------



## BWG

Is bulldozer out yet


----------



## Aesir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BWG;14935456*
> Is bulldozer out yet


One would hope, I'm tired of seeing sketchy cinebenches which are almost as bad as my 955 x4 and 8 minutes slower at super pi. But I'm ready for a new CPU, I bet the 8120's should do nice in BF3.


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933945*
> Plus, I know all my applications that I've written and purchased are Windows XP compatible. Not sure if they all run under Win7, cause I've never installed them on my last build or laptop that has it.
> 
> I'm not letting go of XP because it is a sure thing to run what I have, and offers me all the functionality I need.
> 
> Ribbons? SSD TRIM support? 4 second faster boot? for $150?
> 
> No thanks. I'll stay antiquated.
> 
> Hopefully Bulldozer will not have any issues with it.
> 
> XP x64 Pro does everything I need.
> 
> Nope. Haven't been a student in almost 20 years...unless you consider vo-tech classes for my job "student" lol


This is exactly the problem at many companies. They never move ahead to newer OSs because of legacy software that works and no one wants to spend the money to move forward. They still have non-gui 30 year old archaic apps as a result. When they finally do give in, it requires massive amounts of time, money and re-training. I guess you're not hurting anyone else though, so you get a pass.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935445*
> This looks pretty positive for good ol' BD....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275098-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-8150-at-8429-MHz&p=4949106&viewfull=1#post4949106


Hint of promise here. So happy I wont be able to build a new rig until next year!


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935445*
> This looks pretty positive for good ol' BD....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275098-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-8150-at-8429-MHz&p=4949106&viewfull=1#post4949106


Quoted for its ability to bring false hope to all the believers like me







Well, I hope it isn't false, but I'm very glad to see that people who have actually been with the chip think it's a winner, rather than some random turkish sites posting fake benchies. I think MM saying "It's a winner" is far more useful









Quote:


> Patience my friend, won't be that long..not long at all..


Posted on same thread linked above.







How can they tease us sooooo?!?! I'm hoping and praying for the 19th


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14935370*
> Why are you still using xp


Cause a few years ago, I had opportunity to invest in several XP x64 Pro licenses. My experience with Vista was bad, both desktop and 2 laptops that came with it.

Win 7 has nice boot and shutdown times. But, it runs more processes (meaning less available core power for my apps to use) than my XP does.

Plus, my apps at home are older. I don't need to pay $150 per computer at home for all my PCs (5 PCs running and 1 laptop running XP, 2 laptops running Vista) to upgrade to an OS that offers me little if anything.

I can think of better things to buy than to get 8 DVDs and 8 CD keys for $1200.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;14935371*
> BIOS is a software layer as well, over 30 years old. Legacy. If anything it's more of a security risk than UEFI.


True. Of course from the looks of it, the UEFI offers complete control from the GUI from the looks of it. And when I see intricate control, I begin to wonder about what interfaces actually exist.

TBH, there's not a lot I trust in the computer world security-wise...except CPUs...and fans.


----------



## blabla125

honestly i cannot read all these damn bd threads been reading for hours on ocn only! now imagine the sales to be


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *breenemeister;14935619*
> This is exactly the problem at many companies. They never move ahead to newer OSs because of legacy software that works and no one wants to spend the money to move forward. They still have non-gui 30 year old archaic apps as a result. When they finally do give in, it requires massive amounts of time, money and re-training. I guess you're not hurting anyone else though, so you get a pass.


Well, imagine being an IT department of 1 DBA, 4 programmers, 3 techs, a network admin, and the manager.

Now, your company wants you to make the schedule time to ensure that 171 individual applications across 18 departments are Windows 7 compatible...and that's just your COTS software...none of the in-house developed stuff.

How fast can you do that with an IT staff of 8, while at the same time supporting all those apps and end-users and not having any overtime?

TBH, I don't understand why the load 32-bit Windows XP pro here.

Oh, one reason why they don't use Win 7 at my work: Their PC remote control program won't work using it.

I found that out the hard way. My new work PC is Windows 7, and I can't remote into anyone's PC. I have to go to their building to support/install stuff.

Yay for Microsoft-certified partner applications development firms?









BTW...to get back on topic...and to make sure I'm not dreaming...AM3+ will use AM3 brackets for liquid cooling solutions like the H50...right?


----------



## BWG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesir;14935554*
> One would hope, I'm tired of seeing sketchy cinebenches which are almost as bad as my 955 x4 and 8 minutes slower at super pi. But I'm ready for a new CPU, I bet the 8120's should do nice in BF3.


I think gaming is going to be the huge improvement. My 2600k is so much smoother than my B55, but I could not be sure if it is the CPU or chipset though.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14935811*
> Well, imagine being an IT department of 1 DBA, 4 programmers, 3 techs, a network admin, and the manager.
> 
> Now, your company wants you to make the schedule time to ensure that 171 individual applications across 18 departments are Windows 7 compatible...and that's just your COTS software...none of the in-house developed stuff.
> 
> How fast can you do that with an IT staff of 8, while at the same time supporting all those apps and end-users and not having any overtime?
> 
> TBH, I don't understand why the load 32-bit Windows XP pro here.
> 
> Oh, one reason why they don't use Win 7 at my work: Their PC remote control program won't work using it.
> 
> I found that out the hard way. My new work PC is Windows 7, and I can't remote into anyone's PC. I have to go to their building to support/install stuff.
> 
> Yay for Microsoft-certified partner applications development firms?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW...to get back on topic...and to make sure I'm not dreaming...*AM3+ will use AM3 brackets for liquid cooling solutions like the H50...right?*


Im pretty sure the backplate and brackets are the same.


----------



## hokiealumnus

AM2, 2+, 3 and 3+ mounting holes are all the same. So is FM1 for that matter. AMD gets big points for that in my book.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14936098*
> AM2, 2+, 3 and 3+ mounting holes are all the same. So is FM1 for that matter. AMD gets big points for that in my book.


Yeah, that is a big plus. Thumbs up to AMD for that


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14935370*
> Why are you still using xp


Why not? It does the Job and that's all you need an OS for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14935429*
> Hueristic, what are you talking about?


I quoted what I'm talking about. You need to learn to predicate your unqualified statements and you came off as sounding like a real Intel fanboy in those posts so I pointed it out.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935445*
> This looks pretty positive for good ol' BD....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275098-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-8150-at-8429-MHz&p=4949106&viewfull=1#post4949106...


OK, I trust MM. I'm celebrating! W00T got my board and Mem cheap yesterday can't wait to pre-order to lock my chip in before the rush and back-orders happen!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14935757*
> Cause a few years ago, I had opportunity to invest in several XP x64 Pro licenses. My experience with Vista was bad, both desktop and 2 laptops that came with it.
> 
> Win 7 has nice boot and shutdown times. But, it runs more processes (meaning less available core power for my apps to use) than my XP does.
> 
> Plus, my apps at home are older. I don't need to pay $150 per computer at home for all my PCs (5 PCs running and 1 laptop running XP, 2 laptops running Vista) to upgrade to an OS that offers me little if anything.
> 
> I can think of better things to buy than to get 8 DVDs and 8 CD keys for $1200....


QFT. I still Run XP32sp3 and have seen absolutely no reason to change yet. Most the people I know that have have already had to reformat at least once while I haven't had to in too many years to remember.







I'm fine with Directx10.1, Don't see the hype about 11.

I'll probably give 7 a try though with BD.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14931606*
> Hah, is that what you honestly think? Tablets are nothing more than a toy. Remember pdas. Yeah I'm sure we all forget about them by now. Tablets are in the same boat as them as I see it. Laptops haven't replaced desktops. Go to a persons house, and they usually have atleast one desktop. The thing is the average computer doesn't upgrade his computer often. He'll buy a desktop and sit on it for 8-10 years or more. Most people don't keep up with the latest tech. But they still need a PC for office work, taxes, etc. Which will always be easier on a desktop.


Not the same boat because PDAs were more like modern daily planners/organizers/address books etc. that were not productive. Tablets like mine with the c-50 apu can run windows 7 just fine, office applications, and run 1080p hd content smoothly. My tablet even has a docking port where I can use a full size keyboard on. How can a PDA even compare to tablets these days? I can use mine as an HTPC since the c-50 is basically a 6250 ati gpu as well, with sound over hdmi. The video quality is just as good as a desktop 6990 gpu







.


----------



## Joe!

Now I just need to decide between FM1 and AM3+ for my next system. To be discrete or integrated, that is the question.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935445*
> This looks pretty positive for good ol' BD....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275098-AMD-Bulldozer-FX-8150-at-8429-MHz&p=4949106&viewfull=1#post4949106


I guess this means Intel will have to lower prices to compete. Something they haven't been accustomed to doing for quite some time.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14936196*
> I quoted what I'm talking about. You need to learn to predicate your unqualified statements and you came off as sounding like a real Intel fanboy in those posts so I pointed it out.


No I didn't and my statements on the FP unit were backed up by JF.

Also my comment still stands, the FP unit of a cpu is one of the least used components in the average home users daily usage diet.

I've had AVX for 9 months, it's not a selling point for bulldozer if you're not going to be using it. I have yet to find one program that uses it for anything I do. Stop with the fanboy comments, it's pretty obvious which side you're on but please don't reduce me to your level by placing me on a side.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

See what BD is doing to us all, its tearing OCN apart. Its making us fight amongst each other....BD has become the Red Headed Step child of OCN







lol


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joe!;14936253*
> Now I just need to decide between FM1 and AM3+ for my next system. To be discrete or integrated, that is the question.


To be mediocre or excellent! That is the true question! Go discrete man, what have you got to lose? Except some cash. But then you can escape to a 1080 maxed out world and forget your money issues


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14932458*
> Not replaced, but replacing.
> 
> It used to be 5-10% of computers were laptops. Now it is 55%, more than half of all client systems. And that is continuing to grow every quarter. We are probably 3-5 years away from the big box PCs being ~10-20% of the market. Traditional towers and desktops are also being replaced by small form factor PCs with less expandability because the majority of the market does not need these things. I have an antec sonata case with 1 DVD ROM, 1 HD and 1 video card (that I don't really need) on a uATX board. When I build a BD system later this year, it will have integrated graphics on the board so I won't need a card. I could use a much smaller case. My windows home server is in a mini-itx case.


Replacing maybe, but not eliminating. I think desktops will always be around atleast for a while longer; 10+ years. Businesses still will use a desktop since it will always be cheaper than laptop. What does a desk clerk need a laptop for anyways? I agree that form factor and sizing is decreasing. The all in one design PC's are probably the future of desktop PCs. While smaller slimmer towers are also extremely popular.I think desktop PC's still have a long life to breathe. Because they are always more affordable and practical in certain situations. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## newnub123

hi guys me again but i saw talked about os for useing core s then i got 2 question JF if it is not to early to ask such question .
so if win8 comes will this manged better the cores as windows 7 now ????? after what u sayed every os handels/works better with the cores, so it should i think .
nextand myreal question is it true that "In Windows 8 (Development Release) is not Bulldozer chip as "8 Core - 8 Threads" but 4 Core - 8 Threads " is it ? is it true ?`? or wrong info? i read it some days ago (pls dont kill me )


----------



## oicw

Desktops will probably go in the way of old school "workstations". 20 years ago, you'd have to spend $10k to do serious CAD work.

These days, I can do most enineering modeling work on my regular desktop fitted with a $200 Firepro V4800 (nothing more than a glorified HD5670)

Now, CFD is a whole new ballgame. Hopefully in the not so distant future, desktops can atleast tackle some fluids modeling.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14936918*
> Desktops will probably go in the way of old school "workstations". 20 years ago, you'd have to spend $10k to do serious CAD work.
> 
> These days, I can do most enineering modeling work on my regular desktop fitted with a $200 Firepro V4800 (nothing more than a glorified HD5670)
> 
> Now, CFD is a whole new ballgame. Hopefully in the not so distant future, desktops can atleast tackle some fluids modeling.


I think that's a definite possibility considering how fast the technology is improving over the years.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14936196*
> QFT. I still Run XP32sp3 and have seen absolutely no reason to change yet. Most the people I know that have have already had to reformat at least once while I haven't had to in too many years to remember.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fine with Directx10.1, Don't see the hype about 11.
> 
> I'll probably give 7 a try though with BD.


Meh. I won't have to go 7 unless I *need* to.

And, I'm the same about DX11 as you are....as well as XP. My laptop with Vista that I use a few hours a night...already gone through a HD. My Toshiba laptop with XP...still on the same HD...7 years later. I think Vista wore drives out faster.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joe!;14936253*
> Now I just need to decide between FM1 and AM3+ for my next system. To be discrete or integrated, that is the question.


I'm going AM3+...mainly cause I know you can drop an AM3 CPU in an AM3+ mobo.

Haven't read anything on FM1 yet.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14936539*
> See what BD is doing to us all, its tearing OCN apart. Its making us fight amongst each other....BD has become the Red Headed Step child of OCN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol


I love you, man....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14936918*
> Desktops will probably go in the way of old school "workstations". 20 years ago, you'd have to spend $10k to do serious CAD work.
> 
> These days, I can do most enineering modeling work on my regular desktop fitted with a $200 Firepro V4800 (nothing more than a glorified HD5670)
> 
> Now, CFD is a whole new ballgame. Hopefully in the not so distant future, desktops can atleast tackle some fluids modeling.


I still stand by the fact that as long as top-end graphics (animation, gaming, et al) require high-end power and super-heating discrete GPUs...you're not gonna see laptops that can do the very high-end and still be easily portable.

Go look at some of the massive laptop rigs Alienware sells for $1Ks, and feel how heavy and bulky they are...and don't get near the top-end desktop power and smoothness for half the price.

Sure, laptops have come of age as "desktop replacement", but that is in casual home/work usage. And, that's the bulk of users. That's why the conversion has been so rapid. When it hits that threshold, watch what happens. It won't completely eliminate PCs in a few years.

And besides, enthusiasts who build powerful PCs and push them to their limits shouldn't wish for micronization. Once the part demand goes down...production per unit goes up. You will pay more for upgrading what you have.

And, it becomes even worse to work on yourself when you get into small scale form factor. Ever tried swapping CPU fans in your HAF 932 vs a Dell Inspiron laptop?

Your big, bulky gaming PC is your friend, my dear fellow enthusiasts









Anyways...I have to go check and see if there's any more news about Zambezi out.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14937087*
> Haven't read anything on FM1 yet.


FM1 is the socket for Llano. I'd link to my review and overclocking Llano articles but apparently linking to a site for which I write, regardless of reason, is considered advertising. So if you know for whom I write, then go there and search for "Llano".


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14937141*
> FM1 is the socket for Llano. I'd link to my review and overclocking Llano articles but apparently linking to a site for which I write, regardless of reason, is considered advertising. So if you know for whom I write, then go there and search for "Llano".


Will do. Sorry if that got you in trouble doing it before for me.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Not you at all man, it just is. Tis a rule and I'll follow it. It just makes life a little more difficult for those I'm pointing toward the info.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14936520*
> No I didn't and my statements on the FP unit were backed up by JF.


You said it good, 4*256 OR 8*128

The problem of AVX is, intel decided to chop it in many parts (like "neverending story" the SSE series)
So, we have AVX1 which is floating point only, later will come AVX2 with desired integer support.
Programmer community is complaining about this decision, intel is here to blame.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Indeed, AVX2 won't show up until Haswell on the Intel side.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;14931183*
> Precisely.... Same strategy. Seriously, from a market perspective, 8 cores @ 4.2ghz TC in the paper ad will generate great sales. 90% of the pc market know gigahertz and cores, thats it. Take away the core factor and its Netburst all over. From an architectual standpoint, well, i'll quote a member from XS (xsecret) AKA Doc_TB from carnard_pc. He claims to have a B2 sample.


The main problem with NetBurst wasn't the deep pipeline; it was the heat output.

Remember, 2500ks are running at 5GHz on air... 990Xs and X4s are overclocking past 7GHz... I don't see this as anything to worry too much about. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14931421*
> Not sure how AMD will sell many CPUs if at stock it is not an noticeable upgrade over what people already own. Will some, like yourself, buy them just to OC and play around with new tech? ... sure -- but that is not going to make AMD very much money.
> 
> I have been following that thread over at xs and while xsecret acts like he has insider info, I find it hard to believe that BD is as bad as he says. If the current leaks are true, then BD (at stock) will have a hard time being competitive with Thuban much less SB.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GuyInc0gnit0;14931515*
> "8 core" cpu with 4 FPUs. My guess is that its FPU performance will not be 2x previous generation amd cpus.


4 256-bit FPUs or 8 128-bit FPUs.

Almost all client FP workloads are 64 or 128 bit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14931571*
> I don't really know what is using x86 FP to be honest, outside linpacks.
> 
> I'm almost positive just about everything I do from gaming to rendering, and even encoding is all integer based.


True.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14931619*
> The 4 256bit FPUs are actually 4 512bit FPUs
> 
> you have 4 x 128bit Components in the Coprocessor that is 512bits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pipe 0 and 1 are Floating Point and Pipe 0, 2 and 3 are Integer
> 
> In my workloads I use 0, 2 and 3
> 
> 99% of all Average Desktop Applications are Integer
> Enthusiasts are around the 90% mark but you still have Integer being the more important object


Even if they were 512-bit, there's no 512-bit instructions are there?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14931650*
> To be clear, I am talking about Zambezi sales only, the "ignorant" people will be buying Llano no matter if Bulldozer's IPC is the same as P4 or 100% better than SB.
> 
> Of the people Zambezi is marketed towards most will read reviews and know whether it is an upgrade over their PH II. I do expect some FX chips to end up in OEM boxes, but I would not expect OEMs to go crazy buying up more expensive, poorer performing chips when they already have PH II in stock not to mention llano is way cheaper and easy to market as an all-around platform.


I see FX being popular in the $1k+ OEM world.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14932981*
> exchange, oracle, SQL server, apache, mysql, *vmware*, hyperV, fluent, starCD, to name a few.
> 
> AutoCAD is run on the workstation but there is a back end component that can be run on the client as well.


Didn't know that...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14933080*
> why would anyone believe some twitter post, how does anyone know who its by, or if they are who they claim to be











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverShocked;14933179*
> Am i the only one who f5's this thread every 2 min?


Hell no!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14933333*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine CPUZ glitched at full load in linx, guys at oc event didn´t use any cpu load apps.


lol, that's the one I was talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935116*
> I heard once that XP does not handle multi core procs very well but one of the SP's may have addressed that, not sure. I do know that I love Win7, it is absolutely my favorite OS out of all of the ones that I've used.


Windows 7 handles RAM, SSDs, and multicore CPUs much better than XP.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joe!;14936253*
> Now I just need to decide between FM1 and AM3+ for my next system. To be discrete or integrated, that is the question.


Depends on your needs and your budget.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14936918*
> Desktops will probably go in the way of old school "workstations". 20 years ago, you'd have to spend $10k to do serious CAD work.
> 
> These days, I can do most enineering modeling work on my regular desktop fitted with a $200 Firepro V4800 (nothing more than a glorified HD5670)
> 
> Now, CFD is a whole new ballgame. Hopefully in the not so distant future, desktops can atleast tackle some fluids modeling.


The thing is, most laptops are limited to 45W CPUs and 50W GPUs. Most high-end desktops are using 95-130W CPUs and a 200W GPU or two.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14937293*
> You said it good, 4*256 OR 8*128
> 
> The problem of AVX is, intel decided to chop it in many parts (like "neverending story" the SSE series)
> So, we have AVX1 which is floating point only, later will come AVX2 with desired integer support.
> Programmer community is complaining about this decision, intel is here to blame.


QFT.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14937617*
> Indeed, AVX2 won't show up until Haswell on the Intel side.


Same with FMA.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14937636*
> Even if they were 512-bit, there's no 512-bit instructions are there?


Move Elimination but I am not sure if it is important or not

Also instructions are only as big as 64bit(There is some instructions that can do 64+64 which are 128bit but I'm not sure if it is effective, to consider them actual 128bit instructions)

8 x 32bit = "256bit" instruction
4 x 64bit = "256bit" instruction


----------



## Canis-X

Interesting read that was posted today....

What the AMD Tech Guy Said


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14938228*
> Interesting read that was posted today....
> 
> What the AMD Tech Guy Said


Nice find and good read thank you for sharing it with us


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14936520*
> No I didn't and my statements on the FP unit were backed up by JF.
> 
> Also my comment still stands, the FP unit of a cpu is one of the least used components in the average home users daily usage diet.
> 
> I've had AVX for 9 months, it's not a selling point for bulldozer if you're not going to be using it. I have yet to find one program that uses it for anything I do. Stop with the fanboy comments, it's pretty obvious which side you're on but please don't reduce me to your level by placing me on a side.


You stated that servers were FP intensive. that is wrong. JD did not back you up on that here is what he said. AFAIK very few apps are FP, stuff like scientific computing which I think is best done on GPU's.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14932458*
> Some technical applications. Most apps use light FP, ~10% of what happens in the typical CPU is FP. 90% is integer, but when FP comes up it is dispatched. Think of it like a single slow car on a 10 lane highway. Even rendering and gaming will use it, but a very small percentage of the time. So small in fact, and with the long pipelines/high latency, speeding up FP will not appreciably impact most apps because there just isn't enough of a reliance on that. Imagine cooking a big meal and then suddenly learning how to chop vegetables faster. It makes that task faster, but in the grand scheme of making a dinner, little impact.


AFA Being in a camp I have been in the industry (Till retirement) since 87 I've seen many great chips from multiple companies. Kids on this site have no clue Intel/Amd are not the only companies out there.









ATM Bulldozer is looking to be a big homerun and I'm happy for AMD. I think it's a great company. I was just as happy to see Intel put out the c2d line. Hell I was ecstatic when DEC announced the Alpha @500 (This was when intel/amd were running around 200!). Unfortunately it wasn't enough to save the company. If I had a choice we would have been running Risc chips but M$ would have none of that and stunted the industry for a good decade. But this is far off topic. Nuf to say I'm not even a X86 fan let alone any one company.







Oh and I even removed my system specs a year or so ago because there was no other way to remove the Intel/Nvidia symbols.
It's actually sad Apple had to go X86. In my mind risc was the only real good thing they had going. Lol


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14933625*
> If your opinion is true, this gives me 2 options:
> 
> No upgrade
> 
> Move to Linux
> 
> I own another several licenses for Windows XP x64 Pro. I don't feel like paying another $150 on top of ~$400-450 for the FX 8150 + Asus Sabertooth 990FX...because I need Windows 7.
> 
> Hopefully, John can give me some official insight.


It says in your sig rig you have Windows 7 already?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14935116*
> I heard once that XP does not handle multi core procs very well but one of the SP's may have addressed that, not sure. I do know that I love Win7, it is absolutely my favorite OS out of all of the ones that I've used.


No, it doesn't still.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14935757*
> Win 7 has nice boot and shutdown times. But, it runs more processes (meaning less available core power for my apps to use) than my XP does.


However, Win7 uses your CPU more efficiently than XP, which more than makes up for that.

But if we're talking efficiency in using the CPU, Linux ftw.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14936196*
> Why not? It does the Job and that's all you need an OS for.
> 
> QFT. I still Run XP32sp3 and have seen absolutely no reason to change yet. Most the people I know that have have already had to reformat at least once while I haven't had to in too many years to remember.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fine with Directx9, Don't see the hype about 11.


Barely.

And I'm surprised, every time I ran XP, I had to reformat after a month or so because it slowed right the hell down. They mostly fixed that in Vista/7, not completely though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14936520*
> I've had AVX for 9 months, it's not a selling point for bulldozer if you're not going to be using it. I have yet to find one program that uses it for anything I do. Stop with the fanboy comments, it's pretty obvious which side you're on but please don't reduce me to your level by placing me on a side.


It'll be like MMX/SSE/3DNow was at first, not many apps to use it until the majority of CPUs currently running have it.

I want to see a Black Edition socket FM1 CPU, it's all I'd really need to be honest, save money on a good GPU and just buy some really good RAM to get that IGP going well.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14938338*
> Barely.
> 
> And I'm surprised, every time I ran XP, I had to reformat after a month or so because it slowed right the hell down. They mostly fixed that in Vista/7, not completely though.


Stop surfing pr0n







lol j/k man


----------



## cjmovie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14938336*
> You stated that servers were FP intensive. that is wrong. JD did not back you up on that here is what he said. AFAIK very few apps are FP, stuff like scientific computing which I think is best done on GPU's.


Only some problems lend themselves well to GPGPU. It really depends. A lot of things have so much branching and data dependency that syncing on the GPU slows it down more than it can help with its core count. Even some methods of rendering don't lend themselves to GPGPU without a huge amount of fine tuning.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14936918*
> Now, CFD is a whole new ballgame. Hopefully in the not so distant future, desktops can atleast tackle some fluids modeling.


Have you looked into some of the newer GPGPU resources available? Things like sailfish on C2070's can eat through CFD faster than some small clusters. I've never used it myself so I wouldn't know if it can handle GPU clustering (multi-GPU nodes or multi-nodes of GPUs) but if you can fit your simulation into 6GB or less... although I understand a lot of the CFD done now is on huge mesh sizes (finite elements/lattice boltzman) or huge particle count (SPH), so maybe not.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14938338*
> 
> And I'm surprised, every time I ran XP, I had to reformat after a month or so because it slowed right the hell down. They mostly fixed that in Vista/7, not completely though.


Ran it for about 2 1/2 years and never experienced slow downs that required a reformat. Not sure what you were doing. A quick clean out of temp files and other such things would always do the trick if I thought it was feeling a little sluggish. Can't say I miss XP though. While it was hard to make the move initially, I couldn't go back to it now. I was always of the belief that XP did everything I needed so why upgrade to 7? Now that I'm using it, there's just something about it that I love...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14936668*
> Replacing maybe, but not eliminating. I think desktops will always be around atleast for a while longer; 10+ years. Businesses still will use a desktop since it will always be cheaper than laptop. What does a desk clerk need a laptop for anyways? I agree that form factor and sizing is decreasing. The all in one design PC's are probably the future of desktop PCs. While smaller slimmer towers are also extremely popular.I think desktop PC's still have a long life to breathe. Because they are always more affordable and practical in certain situations. Just my 2 cents.


Look at where desktops are today. Most are small form factor and getting smaller. Our fusion parts make small form factors very possible. Even fanless in some cases. When you can do a mini-itx, need no cards, and a notebook drive is 500GB, why does anyone need to build the big case.

True, desktops will be there, but let's face it, 90% of them will not be what this crowd thinks of as desktops. They will be cheap very small form factor desktops. The latest trend is VESA compatible mounts for these mini PCs for the backs of monitors.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14936861*
> hi guys me again but i saw talked about os for useing core s then i got 2 question JF if it is not to early to ask such question .
> so if win8 comes will this manged better the cores as windows 7 now ????? after what u sayed every os handels/works better with the cores, so it should i think .
> nextand myreal question is it true that "In Windows 8 (Development Release) is not Bulldozer chip as "8 Core - 8 Threads" but 4 Core - 8 Threads " is it ? is it true ?`? or wrong info? i read it some days ago (pls dont kill me )


I am too busy to deal with win 8 until fall when I head out to msft. But trust me, I will be under NDA so you will never hear anything about that from me.

As to how BD shows up, does it matter. It is 8 core, the OS doesn't see modules.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14939411*
> Look at where desktops are today. Most are small form factor and getting smaller. Our fusion parts make small form factors very possible. Even fanless in some cases. When you can do a mini-itx, need no cards, and a notebook drive is 500GB, why does anyone need to build the big case.
> 
> True, desktops will be there, but let's face it, 90% of them will not be what this crowd thinks of as desktops. They will be cheap very small form factor desktops. The latest trend is VESA compatible mounts for these mini PCs for the backs of monitors.


I agree, I know the trend for the mainstream is smaller, sleeker desktop designs. I still feel we will always have the big tower niche however. Us enthusiasts need a lot of space and cooling capability. I don't think we'll see many big retail or OEM towers in 5+ years though.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14938336*
> You stated that servers were FP intensive. that is wrong. JD did not back you up on that here is what he said. AFAIK very few apps are FP, stuff like scientific computing which I think is best done on GPU's.


Actually I didn't mean servers like web servers, I meant server chips and what they do.

Which lead into my next question, with socket 2011 looking like a server socket, is that where AMD is heading as well with their designs...


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14939411*
> Look at where desktops are today. Most are small form factor and getting smaller. Our fusion parts make small form factors very possible. Even fanless in some cases. When you can do a mini-itx, need no cards, and a notebook drive is 500GB, why does anyone need to build the big case.
> 
> True, desktops will be there, but let's face it, 90% of them will not be what this crowd thinks of as desktops. They will be cheap very small form factor desktops. The latest trend is VESA compatible mounts for these mini PCs for the backs of monitors.


Say it ain't so! I like my giant tower PCs with hulking cooling solutions on the CPU & GPUs.







:typer:

It's like if a chip isn't pushing thermal limits it's just not trying hard enough.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14939411*
> Look at where desktops are today. Most are small form factor and getting smaller. Our fusion parts make small form factors very possible. Even fanless in some cases. When you can do a mini-itx, need no cards, and a notebook drive is 500GB, why does anyone need to build the big case.
> 
> True, desktops will be there, but let's face it, 90% of them will not be what this crowd thinks of as desktops. They will be cheap very small form factor desktops. The latest trend is VESA compatible mounts for these mini PCs for the backs of monitors.
> 
> I am too busy to deal with win 8 until fall when I head out to msft. But trust me, I will be under NDA so you will never hear anything about that from me.
> 
> As to how BD shows up, does it matter. It is 8 core, the OS doesn't see modules.


I will never go Mini ITX or any small form factor thats just lame in my eyes & I hope it never gets to that point. I will always love the big towers & Giant coolers.


----------



## Rebelord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14936861*
> nextand myreal question is it true that "In Windows 8 (Development Release) is not Bulldozer chip as "8 Core - 8 Threads" but 4 Core - 8 Threads " is it ? is it true ?`? or wrong info? i read it some days ago (pls dont kill me )


Remember too, the Win8 Dev release out now, is just that. A very early Developer release for people to see, try out and give developers a early start with it. As for how it reports CPUs, it can and will be buggy. Especially with unreleased chips at this moment. I know the Server BD chips have shipped, but I doubt Microsoft had much time, or at all tried to configure Win8 Dev to properly acknowledge the chip. <-if that makes sense.


----------



## soth7676

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


The latest trend is VESA compatible mounts for these mini PCs for the backs of monitors.


OH GOD!!...I JUST HAD A FLASHBACK NIGHTMARE!!...VESA Local bus graphics on my 486sx packard bell comp... paid through the nose for this last and greatest innovation to have it replaced by PCI instead.... say it isn't so JF!!

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Aesir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


I agree, I know the trend for the mainstream is smaller, sleeker desktop designs. I still feel we will always have the big tower niche however. Us enthusiasts need a lot of space and cooling capability. I don't think we'll see many big retail or OEM towers in 5+ years though.


I cant fit a 360 rad inside something the size of a mac mini...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesir;14940038*
> I cant fit a 360 rad inside something the size of a mac mini...


Yeah, but the thing is that most people aren't going to be using a 360 rad. Most people are fine with the stock cooler. They don't think about these kinds of things. They just want a computer that allows them to go on Facebook and YouTube fast enough.

For enthusiasts, the full tower is never going away (okay, MAYBE when graphene chips are released).


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aesir*


I cant fit a 360 rad inside something the size of a mac mini...


Exactly, you are an enthusiast. We will still have our silverstone, antec, cooler master full tower or mid tower cases. Mainsteam like Dell for example will be tryin to shrink cases etc. Except for the alienware line of course.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


It says in your sig rig you have Windows 7 already?


I have a triple booting PC. I have Windows 7 Professional x64 on one partition on the SSD RAID 0, but I haven't booted that to use in probably...a year.

Quote:



However, Win7 uses your CPU more efficiently than XP, which more than makes up for that.


That may be. However, Microsoft deciding they get more of my upgraded clock cycles is not something I want to pay $150 for.

Quote:



But if we're talking efficiency in using the CPU, Linux ftw.


Yeah, that is why I'm am looking to go Linux after 2014. With Windows, Microsoft can choose to push whatever desktop they want you to use on top of their OS. With Linux if I like Ubuntu and don't like Unity, I can put Gnome on...or go with KDE-driven Kubuntu...etc.

I looked at "Metro", and I'm so unimpressed. When you have a 10.1" screen, do you really want to have huge tiles taking up a lot of screen real estate? Just doesn't make sense to me.

With the standard desktop, I can just move the mouse over to the desktop icon and double click. Simple. Fast. Efficient.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soth7676*


OH GOD!!...I JUST HAD A FLASHBACK NIGHTMARE!!...VESA Local bus graphics on my 486sx packard bell comp... paid through the nose for this last and greatest innovation to have it replaced by PCI instead.... say it isn't so JF!!

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


Lol VESA is just the name of the group that sets the graphic Standard (They did define local bus, hence VLB) Just Like IEEE For electronics.

I had a $450 ATI VLB 4mb Mach32 (4mb was huge at the time) and was on top of the World! Lol


----------



## jck

i had a VLB video card once. can't remember if it was Bahamas 64 or Rage Fury Maxx or what it was.

i'm getting too old to remember all that stuff.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


i had a VLB video card once. can't remember if it was Bahamas 64 or Rage Fury Maxx or what it was.

i'm getting too old to remember all that stuff.


Weird thing is I remember that stuff better than the last decade.
























Which isn't to say I remember that stuff all that well either!


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14940757*
> Weird thing is I remember that stuff better than the last decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which isn't to say I remember that stuff all that well either!


All that stuff is fading fast for me now. I used to know everyone one of the contacts on a ISA 8-bit and 16-bit slot and what it did. Even knew PCI 1.x at one point. Even got into CPU tech at one time.

Now, I just look into benchmarks and what not.

i think i need to just go back to handwriting letters and using a corded phone. lol


----------



## BigCactus

Well I was excited about bulldozer, but not so much any more. I am more interested to see how the new apus will perform.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Well I was excited about bulldozer, but not so much any more. I am more interested to see how the new apus will perform.


Why the sudden change of heart?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14940436*
> Yeah, that is why I'm am looking to go Linux after 2014. With Windows, Microsoft can choose to push whatever desktop they want you to use on top of their OS. With Linux if I like Ubuntu and don't like Unity, I can put Gnome on...or go with KDE-driven Kubuntu...etc.
> I looked at "Metro", and I'm so unimpressed. When you have a 10.1" screen, do you really want to have huge tiles taking up a lot of screen real estate? Just doesn't make sense to me.
> With the standard desktop, I can just move the mouse over to the desktop icon and double click. Simple. Fast. Efficient.


Oh, I agree, unless Windows 9 is better than Win7, I'm definitely going to Linux 24/7.
The only thing keeping me on Windows at the moment is WLM (Group support specifically), BF3 and Skyrim.

I have an 16bit ISA 2D only card somewhere...Tseng Labs made it, lol


----------



## RoddimusPrime

So from what I gather Bulldozer will not come out until Q4 now.... that is quite enough on the delays if you ask me. That is why Intel has been winning.

Also, is there any clue as to how these perform against Sandy Bridge? I just want to know if I should be waiting for Bulldozer if the price/performance doesn't justify it. The 8150 seems to be $266 for instance. Is there hard evidence to stack against Sandy Bridge?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime*


Is there hard evidence to stack against Sandy Bridge?


Phenom III X8 at 5GHz would outperform the 2600k clock per clock. So BD pretty much has to win.

If it doesn't, I will shoot myself.......

.... in the foot.


----------



## Rebelord

Remember too, Q4 starts basically Oct 1 from my understanding. 2 1/2 weeks away. However, when in Q4 is the kicker. 
But, I have a feeling we will see it very soon. If the 7xxx cards are slated to start releasing Q4 also (probably Dec time frame), I wouldnt think AMD would want that stealing any thunder from BD release. <--pure speculation on my part.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rebelord*


Remember too, Q4 starts basically Oct 1 from my understanding. 2 1/2 weeks away. However, when in Q4 is the kicker. 
But, I have a feeling we will see it very soon. If the 7xxx cards are slated to start releasing Q4 also (probably Dec time frame), I wouldnt think AMD would want that stealing any thunder from BD release. <--pure speculation on my part.


Well I for one would be a happy camper if it came before Black Friday...


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Oh, I agree, unless Windows 9 is better than Win7, I'm definitely going to Linux 24/7.
The only thing keeping me on Windows at the moment is WLM (Group support specifically), BF3 and Skyrim.

*I have an 16bit ISA 2D only card somewhere...Tseng Labs made it, lol*


Yep...that's a name I knew all too well. I used to install those in machines when I was in college and high school.

I can't remember all the names anymore. I seem to remember like 4 brands of card/chipset. I remember doing Hercules cards way back when.


----------



## newnub123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I am too busy to deal with win 8 until fall when I head out to msft. But trust me, I will be under NDA so you will never hear anything about that from me.

As to how BD shows up, does it matter. It is 8 core, the OS doesn't see modules.


 OK thx i as k only cause i have a msdnaa








i wont ask now again i willl see all then







!


----------



## jck

I'm anxious to see what it can do...that's all I know.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


Yep...that's a name I knew all too well. I used to install those in machines when I was in college and high school.

I can't remember all the names anymore. I seem to remember like 4 brands of card/chipset. I remember doing Hercules cards way back when.


That rig was my favourite, with my Athlon XP 2600+ coming second.

Cyrix 6x86 PR150, 192MB SDRAM, 20GB Quantum Fireball HDD. Got around the Windows 95 era, upgraded the HDD and RAM for 98, then went to XP, all in all, lasted nearly 10 years. (I upgraded to my Athlon XP in 2004-2005.)


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I'm anxious to see what it can do...that's all I know.










x86 and x86-64

That is what it can do...










-NostraSeronx


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


x86 and x86-64

That is what it can do...










-NostraSeronx


It also goes to over 8Ghz,and runs 4.8Ghz on a Antec Kuhler,a 64 bit 8 core processor that clocks well even when it isn't in its final retail stepping. This is almost all we know about BD.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


It also goes to over 8Ghz,and runs 4.8Ghz on a Antec Kuhler,a 64 bit 8 core processor that clocks well even when it isn't in its final retail stepping. This is almost all we know about BD.


The 4.8GHz overclock at 1.5v was unstable and crashed under a light load from Heaven.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The 4.8GHz overclock at 1.5v was unstable and crashed under a light load from Heaven.


where did you read that?


----------



## Bloitz

Dutch hardware-site:
http://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/24619...d-fx-processor
Translated to English using Google Translate:
http://translate.google.nl/translate...cessor&act=url

I don't know, not a lot of details have been given to which models have been used but I'm not very impressed at the moment. Not going to cheer and scream 'DIE Intel DIE !!!' until more benches have been released







.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *liberato87*   where did you read that?  
@3:18

  
 You Tube  



 
Prior to that he confirmed 4.8GHz @ 1.5v


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


@3:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-qJAhzJjdk

Prior to that he confirmed 4.8GHz @ 1.5v


The TDP says 223 <-- the best my eyes can decode "Block Z Block" but anandshimpi has a really bad camera....if Kyle with his professional camera maybe I could see that TDP










56 x 4 = 224 TDP though :\\

125 TDP CPUs tend to say Max TDP 126
not 223

4.8GHz @ 1.488?/1.5Vs may not be completely stable on ES 
they will probably be more stable on RS


----------



## dreameer111

Anyone know when we can expect actual performance numbers?


----------



## Benz

On a release date. It's been discussed a million times by now.


----------



## davieg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14943095*
> The 4.8GHz overclock at 1.5v was unstable and crashed under a light load from Heaven.


Im not convinced that is a crash to be honest, notice how the screen fades out, no blinking lights on the board etc, looks to me more like a display going to sleep.And if thats the CHV the blinking red lights on the side would be noticeable under that lighting. No BSOD, No immediate reboot to the UEFI after, and the CHV usually does recover pretty quick to a state where you can re enter the Uefi after an unstable oc.
Although could be wrong, just my guess.


----------



## Fr0sty

anyway ... how many sandy make it to 4.8 or even 5ghz on air ???

not everyone that's for sure


----------



## davieg

And we dont know that every Zambezi can get to 4.8 or 5Ghz on air either yet.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14943846*
> anyway ... how many sandy make it to 4.8 or even 5ghz on air ???
> 
> not everyone that's for sure


Almost every one of them on OCN that I've seen will do it, given the user wasn't afraid of the voltages (I've seen some people refuse to push over 1.35v). All 3 of mine (while I was testing) did 4.8 stable on my Xigmatek S1283. And believe it or not, the one I kept was the better of the three, and it won't do 5.


----------



## Schmuckley

i dunno..where's the bulldozer??seems like intel's making the sandy's worse than when they were 1st released..been noticing this trend...as well as my own experience..1st chip..did 5.3....2nd chip..5.1


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;14943885*
> seems like intel's making the sandy's worse than when they were 1st released..been noticing this trend...as well as my own experience..1st chip..did 5.3....2nd chip..5.1


They may have started sorting out the better ones for 2700K.
My L104 chip can do 5.3 too: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNdRO3sBVAg[/ame]


----------



## liberato87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davieg;14943818*
> Im not convinced that is a crash to be honest, notice how the screen fades out, no blinking lights on the board etc, looks to me more like a display going to sleep.And if thats the CHV the blinking red lights on the side would be noticeable under that lighting. No BSOD, No immediate reboot to the UEFI after, and the CHV usually does recover pretty quick to a state where you can re enter the Uefi after an unstable oc.
> Although could be wrong, just my guess.


agree.
i have the same mainboard and if there is a crash the light of the monitor would blink ... and also we cant see the reboot and the new post (asus uefi bios red logo)..
the screen just fade out, how could someone say it is a crash?


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14941219*
> Oh, I agree, unless Windows 9 is better than Win7, I'm definitely going to Linux 24/7.
> The only thing keeping me on Windows at the moment is WLM (Group support specifically), BF3 and Skyrim.
> 
> I have an 16bit ISA 2D only card somewhere...Tseng Labs made it, lol


I gotta say if it wasn't for directx half the world would have been off M$ when they spat out ME!
Yeah I remember Teng, Too expensive for the main steam but we had alot of them on test equipment (sonoscan, particle counters and a few others I just can't recall ATM).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14941756*
> Yep...that's a name I knew all too well. I used to install those in machines when I was in college and high school.
> 
> I can't remember all the names anymore. I seem to remember like 4 brands of card/chipset. I remember doing Hercules cards way back when.


I remember upgrading My Hercules to a Zenith CGA! W0W 4 colors and it was great! The Monitor and card cost me a bundle!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14943095*
> The 4.8GHz overclock at 1.5v was unstable and crashed under a light load from Heaven.


Yeha, Umm this is the Disinformation you like throwing around, didn't take you long to start again did it?






















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;14943877*
> Almost every one of them on OCN that I've seen will do it, given the user wasn't afraid of the voltages (I've seen some people refuse to push over 1.35v). All 3 of mine (while I was testing) did 4.8 stable on my Xigmatek S1283. And believe it or not, the one I kept was the better of the three, and it won't do 5.


Really (SB came out while I was *cough) on hiatus, So I haven't really gone back and researched it. But that sound like a very distinct Hole. Although a pretty High one!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liberato87;14944298*
> agree.
> i have the same mainboard and if there is a crash the light of the monitor would blink ... and also we cant see the reboot and the new post (asus uefi bios red logo)..
> the screen just fade out, how could someone say it is a crash?


Some people try to find anything to rain on others parades.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

That was not a crash more like a stand-by or something... people rly rush with conclusions.....If it did crash why was there no reboot?


----------



## Canis-X

Yeah, I don't think that it was a crash either. Behaved just like the monitor was set to shut down after x-amount of minutes.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14944352*
> I remember upgrading My Hercules to a Zenith CGA! W0W 4 colors and it was great! The Monitor and card cost me a bundle!


Yeah, I remember doing a lot. I remember the old Zenith PCs too. We had some in the college computer lab in the School of Business. Ran Novell Netware over thick cable. Before that, it was this proprietary network called Lantastic. I still have the cables, cards and books for it. Still worked last time I toyed with it...about 12 years ago lol.

I remember my first PC "clone" was a 286 Turbo 12 with 640k RAM and DOS 3.3 and a 40MB Seagate ST-251 MFM hard drive. I still remember doing the debug g800:c or something for low-level formats. I bought it from my ex-computer teacher from high school. $750. That thing still worked when I gave the parts away. Even the Seagate HD. That think was a hoss.

I still have a working Duron 950 laying around, and a Celeron 466. I had a 286 and 386SX til about 5 years ago. I love my AMD CPUs tho. I remember the first one I got was a DX40. That thing never quit working.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14945463*
> Yeah, I remember doing a lot. I remember the old Zenith PCs too. We had some in the college computer lab in the School of Business. Ran Novell Netware over thick cable. Before that, it was this proprietary network called Lantastic. I still have the cables, cards and books for it. Still worked last time I toyed with it...about 12 years ago lol.


Yup, Artisoft IIRC on BNC. I had many a Lan party over BNC, Now where are those terminators and where is that damn break![/QUOTE]
Quote:


> I remember my first PC "clone" was a 286 Turbo 12 with 640k RAM and DOS 3.3 and a 40MB Seagate ST-251 MFM hard drive. I still remember doing the debug g800:c or something for low-level formats. I bought it from my ex-computer teacher from high school. $750. That thing still worked when I gave the parts away. Even the Seagate HD. That think was a hoss.


I used to take ST-225's and change the controller and the MFM to RLL and make 238's







My God I got the Virus called "Bloody", It was a mbr patcher and I couldn't figure out for 3 days why ever drive I built was losing the boot sector! OH:
Quote:


> I still have a working Duron 950 laying around, and a Celeron 466. I had a 286 and 386SX til about 5 years ago. I love my AMD CPUs tho. I remember the first one I got was a DX40. That thing never quit working.


I'm clearing out all the old stuff, threw out everything before piii last year (excepy my p6 stuff) and now sending some member my dual p6 boards and pii junk. Trying to make the huge super micro boards fit into a flat rate box is a pita!


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14945764*
> Yup, Artisoft IIRC on BNC. I had many a Lan party over BNC, Now where are those terminators and where is that damn break!


Yep...I still have terminators too lol

Yeah, Artisoft. 5.25" floppies. Probably won't load anymore. I know all my C-64 floppies don't work anymore.
Quote:


> I used to take ST-225's and change the controller and the MFM to RLL and make 238's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My God I got the Virus called "Bloody", It was a mbr patcher and I couldn't figure out for 3 days why ever drive I built was losing the boot sector! OH:


I never did that. I was too poor.

I do remember upgrading from ST-251 to a WD 80MB HD. I still have that drive laying around. It quit working. I always thought about just opening it, but never took time. I saw it a while back tho when I moved from Florida.

Quote:


> I'm clearing out all the old stuff, threw out everything before piii last year (excepy my p6 stuff) and now sending some member my dual p6 boards and pii junk. Trying to make the huge super micro boards fit into a flat rate box is a pita!


I cleared out some about 5 years ago. Gave parts and stuff to a charity in FL. I will do some more cleaning out after Thanksgiving when I've made my trip to my parents, and also finished my bankruptcy.

Speaking of bankruptcy...I have to get it officially filed next week. That way, I don't have a $260 CPU and $150 mobo purchase on the bank statement from Newegg









I don't think a bankruptcy judge would go "that's reasonable spending" lol

Oh well...I deserve an upgrade. Been saving 6 months for it.







(so please hurry up and put the 8150 out so I can see benchies....pleeeeeeeeeeeease AMD







)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14944352*
> 
> Yeha, Umm this is the Disinformation you like throwing around, didn't take you long to start again did it?


Yeah, umm he provided proof to back up his claim a couple pages ago. The CPU crashed running at 4.8Ghz @ 1.5vcore while running a GPU benchmark with extremely low load on the CPU. You can't deny it when it was caught on tape, sorry.


----------



## RAMP4NT

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1117793-first-bulldozer-benches-amd-2.html

THought I'd share







First AMD (POSSIBLY - after looking at the source and reading the rest in german, eh. kinda fishy) OFFICIAL benches. Not really good representation, but it's something.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;14945893*
> Yeah, umm he provided proof to back up his claim a couple pages ago. The CPU crashed running at 4.8Ghz @ 1.5vcore while running a GPU benchmark with extremely low load on the CPU. You can't deny it when it was caught on tape, sorry.


Nope, that was not a crash from the vid that he linked, IMO. Looks just like the monitor shut down (windows setting). The monitor did not show that the system was rebooting again either. It did the dim down thing and then the monitor went to standby, just like I have my son's comp set to do.


----------



## newnub123

Quote:


> On trade-off associated with shared resources:
> 
> What we did was we selected parts of the core that don't seem to have a high potential for conflict. And moreover, they don't tend to use the peak capability offered very often. The floating-point unit in many of your PC devices actually isn't used very often. The chances that two CPUs are going to be using it at the same time are actually relatively low. Especially when you're looking at things on a nanosecond basis or a sub-nanosecond basis, because that's the granularity in which the floating point is shared. So by paying attention to detail and only sharing things that minimize the hazard of destructive interference, we're able to actually get something that looks more like two cores than one core with an extra thread, which is a computing alternative.


hmmmmmm
http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/09/14/what-the-amd-tech-guy-said/


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14946115*
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1117793-first-bulldozer-benches-amd-2.html
> 
> THought I'd share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First AMD (POSSIBLY - after looking at the source and reading the rest in german, eh. kinda fishy) OFFICIAL benches. Not really good representation, but it's something.


In DUTCH!


----------



## 2010rig

Does anyone know the post that JF-AMD made a few days ago about BD cores, and how we have to embrace change, etc?

I can't seem to find it.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;14947260*
> hmmmmmm
> http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/09/14/what-the-amd-tech-guy-said/


He is talking about how Intel's HTT shares basically everything and Bulldozer shares The Front End and the Coprocessor

Thread 0 and Thread 1 do not compete for resources in this way(If thread 0 and 1 are on different cores of course)


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14947403*
> Does anyone know the post that JF-AMD made a few days ago about BD cores, and how we have to embrace change, etc?
> 
> I can't seem to find it.


Is this the post you are reffering to?

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-317.html#post14729357


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14947923*
> Is this the post you are reffering to?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-317.html#post14729357


Yes, that's the one!

Thank you.

+rep


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14947923*
> Is this the post you are reffering to?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-317.html#post14729357


I have been looking for months and months for the right siggy to have.

JF-AMD wins.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Glad I could help


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14947989*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I could help


It's appreciated.

A lot of the argument stuff I get sick of, and just skip.

I really missed a gem right there.

NOTE: JF-AMD - if you want me to remove it, I will. But, I think you're dead on. I just didn't keep the "Embrace change" thing...it didn't seem to fit in the "moment" with "And sucking." lol


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Cool b/c I wanted that part for my sig


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14948024*
> Cool b/c I wanted that part for my sig


lol

We could start a fanclub for JF-AMD...if it wouldn't be riddled with trollololols









I am still thinking Zambezi is gonna surprise folks to some extent more than they think.

I just can't see AMD going this hard and heavy (for this long) with a product line that is going to have significantly reduced ROI. If they thought it would have issues performing/selling well enough, I think they would have turned it loose already at a lower price to kick at the 2500K's market and worked toward the next gen with the funds they've spent in the past 6-9 months.

Just speculation, but that logically seems to make sense to me.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14948016*
> It's appreciated.
> 
> A lot of the argument stuff I get sick of, and just skip.
> 
> I really missed a gem right there.
> 
> NOTE: JF-AMD - if you want me to remove it, I will. But, I think you're dead on. I just didn't keep the "Embrace change" thing...it didn't seem to fit in the "moment" with "And sucking." lol


I had a LtCol in the Army that I worked with while deployed to Iraq, he stated in every meeting a slogan for the ages....."Embrace the suck" Truely epic IMO....LOL


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14948024*
> Cool b/c I wanted that part for my sig


i get the leftovers then


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14948086*
> I had a LtCol in the Army that I worked with while deployed to Iraq, he stated in every meeting a slogan for the ages....."Embrace the suck" Truely epic IMO....LOL


Yeah. I love JF-AMD's statement there. Honest. Direct. Epic.

Kinda like my Calculus I teacher my first fall in college told me when I complained about long-form derivatives:

"Buck up, camper...it only gets worse."


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I like the quote that 2010rig has in his sig that is truly epic


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14948086*
> I had a LtCol in the Army that I worked with while deployed to Iraq, he stated in every meeting a slogan for the ages....."Embrace the suck" Truely epic IMO....LOL


Nice


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;14947327*
> In DUTCH!


Google translate auto detects language for me







I assumed I know I know, bad habit


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14936520*
> No I didn't and my statements on the FP unit were backed up by JF.
> 
> Also my comment still stands, the FP unit of a cpu is one of the least used components in the average home users daily usage diet.
> 
> I've had AVX for 9 months, it's not a selling point for bulldozer if you're not going to be using it. I have yet to find one program that uses it for anything I do. Stop with the fanboy comments, *it's pretty obvious which side you're on but* please don't reduce me to your level by placing me on a side.


He was talking about this (note the highlighted)

Bulldozer is gonna be fine we just need to get the damn thing in our pc's. The selling point will reflect in the benchmarks that are soon to at least be real or from a reliable source. I mean wasn't that the selling point for i5 and i7? Performance correct? or did you buy it for show...

Intel makes great processor's for some. AMD make's great processors for me. Nike or Reebok.. pick your poison.

The guy's with the tablets and crap well.. They like their K-swiss.. I would like to mention there is no substitue for a decent desktop pc with at least a newish quad core q66-955 or above and nice vid card and decent monitor.

Every AMD quad past the 955 is an overclocked 955 to me so I saw no reason to upgrade


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;14949483*
> "Intel approves this message"
> 
> Bulldozer is gonna be fine we just need to get the damn thing in our pc's.


+1 this....so long as it does well...which...i think it will...but...the release benchies will prove whether or not my *guess* is right.


----------



## StarDestroyer

well its done, I won the openbox gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD4-B3, now I'll leave paying for it until the last day since I won't have the i5-2500k until 2 weeks and if it doesn't work I'll be just inside the return period I hope

I would have saved money going BD, but it wasn't meant to be


----------



## Canis-X

Chew* was authorized to release some of his home testing on the XS site just now....

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4950616&viewfull=1#post4950616

Edit: Sorry no benchies


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14949766*
> Chew* was authorized to release some of his home testing on the XS site just now....
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4950616&viewfull=1#post4950616
> 
> Edit: Sorry no benchies


He lives near me I should go over and take them!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14950010*
> He lives near me I should go over and take them!


Grab me one while you are at it


----------



## 4LC4PON3

So far I have not even seen what bulldozer is capable of. All we have gotten are some half done benchmarks & false information. I am buying regardless since my rig is already setup for BD

All I have seen so far is alot of Intel users in the AMD section knocking bulldozer & telling everyone to go Intel cause Bulldozer is going to fail or has already failed. Getting irritating


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I like the quote that 2010rig has in his sig that is truly epic




















Speaking of my sig, since AMD released benchmarks today, a World Record run the other day, plus we also have pricing information, does that mean Bulldozer is releasing today?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*


So far I have not even seen what bulldozer is capable of. All we have gotten are some half done benchmarks & false information. I am buying regardless since my rig is already setup for BD

All I have seen so far is alot of Intel users in the AMD section knocking bulldozer & telling everyone to go Intel cause Bulldozer is going to fail or has already failed. Getting irritating


I haven't seen such a thing. Then again, I'm an Intel user and probably read things differently than you do.


----------



## Schmuckley

doh! i wanna see hyper-pi..grr..it's getting close..hope i don't get burned like phenom1 buyers :-s


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14950252*
> Speaking of my sig, since AMD released benchmarks today, a World Record run the other day, plus we also have pricing information, does that mean Bulldozer is releasing today?


I was just wondering the same thing. Has anyone heard or do they know if we might get an official launch/release from AMD on the 19th


----------



## Schmuckley

guinness book of world records..need i say more?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I have noticed that no new motherboards have appeared on the egg or tiger with 990fx chipset. That is one thing that has held me off on buying a mobo to get ready. I just have this feeling we might see a new chipset appear when BD arrives.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14950487*
> I have noticed that no new motherboards have appeared on the egg or tiger with 990fx chipset. That is one thing has held me off on buying a mobo to get ready. I just have this feeling we might see a new chipset appear when BD arrives.


That's what AM3+ is for and apparently 890fx will support with a bios update. Remember the Mobo's were out for, what June? BD is delayed Mobo's are here!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14950487*
> I have noticed that no new motherboards have appeared on the egg or tiger with 990fx chipset. That is one thing has held me off on buying a mobo to get ready. I just have this feeling we might see a new chipset appear when BD arrives.


I don't think so.

990FX will be the boards for BD, I really don't think another chipset is coming. New boards, maybe.

Only reason they launched in June was because BD was also supposed to launch in June at the same time.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14950519*
> I don't think so.
> 
> 990FX will be the boards for BD, I really don't think another chipset is coming. New boards, maybe.
> 
> Only reason they launched in June was because BD was also supposed to launch in June at the same time.


I win!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hueristic*


I win!


----------



## Schmuckley

lol heuristic


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote: 
  Originally Posted by Chew
I have permission to release some home stuff now.  
Source

  
 You Tube


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWh2...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWWUF...layer_embedded


already posted.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *davieg*


Im not convinced that is a crash to be honest, notice how the screen fades out, no blinking lights on the board etc, looks to me more like a display going to sleep.And if thats the CHV the blinking red lights on the side would be noticeable under that lighting. No BSOD, No immediate reboot to the UEFI after, and the CHV usually does recover pretty quick to a state where you can re enter the Uefi after an unstable oc.
Although could be wrong, just my guess.


They probably disabled automatic reboot.

Seems more likely than windows going into sleep mode while under load.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14945463*
> I remember the old Zenith PCs too.


I worked for zenith data systems back in the early 90's. But it was owned by groupe bull by that time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14948016*
> It's appreciated.
> 
> A lot of the argument stuff I get sick of, and just skip.
> 
> I really missed a gem right there.
> 
> NOTE: JF-AMD - if you want me to remove it, I will. But, I think you're dead on. I just didn't keep the "Embrace change" thing...it didn't seem to fit in the "moment" with "And sucking." lol


If I said it, it's fair game. Anyone can quote anything I say, as long as they don't alter it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14948074*
> lol
> 
> We could start a fanclub for JF-AMD...if it wouldn't be riddled with trollololols


I don't need a fan club, I'm just a marketing guy. Nothing more.


----------



## davieg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


They probably disabled automatic reboot.

Seems more likely than windows going into sleep mode while under load.


And how many times does a screen fade out under crashing?
And yes windows will turn a screen off under load. Maybe I said sleep before but did I say the OS no I said the display and that can turn off under load.
And I'm not even sure on a black crash like your assuming there you can even do that being as the board was powered up with all its little green LEDs still purring away nicely.
Your convinced its not stable, im not so much, being as not one person at the event even batted an eyelid to the screen turning off.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*


So far I have not even seen what bulldozer is capable of. All we have gotten are some half done benchmarks & false information. I am buying regardless since my rig is already setup for BD

All I have seen so far is alot of Intel users in the AMD section knocking bulldozer & telling everyone to go Intel cause Bulldozer is going to fail or has already failed. Getting irritating


I had to spend the money, for now its too easy for me to spend at the liquor store, I was going to run a BD on my current MB, but they're too late releasing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I was just wondering the same thing. Has anyone heard or do they know if we might get an official launch/release from AMD on the 19th










didn't JF say server chips 1st, so unless the get released on the 19th, don't hold your breath


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


We could start a fanclub for JF-AMD...if it wouldn't be riddled with trollololols










I have pondered that idea before...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *davieg*


Im not convinced that is a crash to be honest, notice how the screen fades out, no blinking lights on the board etc, looks to me more like a display going to sleep.And if thats the CHV the blinking red lights on the side would be noticeable under that lighting. No BSOD, No immediate reboot to the UEFI after, and the CHV usually does recover pretty quick to a state where you can re enter the Uefi after an unstable oc.
Although could be wrong, just my guess.



Yeah it's all good, no point in speculating on it after seeing the benchmarks AMD released anyways.


----------



## davieg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Yeah it's all good, no point in speculating on it after seeing the benchmarks AMD released anyways.


Yeah thats true, I'm just wondering how optimised handbrake is too these CPUs at the min also, if I remember right after Thubans release they did an optimisation on X264 and it brought the performance right up?
Not that thats the case for sure this time, it may have already been done etc, just last things I've seen the devs for X264 were wanting to get there hands on it to optimize for it.


----------



## Nocturin

What was that 6.6 on phase, 6.805 on DICE?

I'm excited, and I haven't overclocked ANYTHING. I think I might be brave enough to tackle this one, seems challenging. Multi- OC only looked boring







.

chew* seemed excited in the video. That's enough for me.

edit: ON ALL 8 CORES!!!!


----------



## mark4d

WOW 4.8ghz on water and i think its that hc50 or somthing

  
 You Tube


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I worked for zenith data systems back in the early 90's. But it was owned by groupe bull by that time.

If I said it, it's fair game. Anyone can quote anything I say, as long as they don't alter it.

I don't need a fan club, I'm just a marketing guy. Nothing more.


JF, you missed a post, care to comment?








http://www.overclock.net/14950252-post5290.html


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I don't need a fan club, I'm just a marketing guy. Nothing more.


You are more than that John, you are our link to the inside. Even though you legally can't say much, a lot of us do appreciate the things you do say.

I appreciate it even more that you continue to come tell us what you can with all of the negativity you have to deal with.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hueristic*


I used to take ST-225's and change the controller and the MFM to RLL and make 238's







My God I got the Virus called "Bloody", It was a mbr patcher and I couldn't figure out for 3 days why ever drive I built was losing the boot sector!







OH:


How'd the MFM drive on RLL go for you? Every time I did it when I had my old messing around with computer, I'd always end up with data loss.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


Yeah, umm he provided proof to back up his claim a couple pages ago. The CPU crashed running at 4.8Ghz @ 1.5vcore while running a GPU benchmark with extremely low load on the CPU. You can't deny it when it was caught on tape, sorry.


Actually, it looked more like someone forgot to disable standby, members with that motherboard have said that doesn't look like a crash from a bad OC.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hueristic*


That's what AM3+ is for and apparently 890fx will support with a bios update. Remember the Mobo's were out for, what June? BD is delayed Mobo's are here!


Technically even an nForce4 would support BD if you put an AM3+ socket on one, mainly because the only really dependent thing is HT.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


They probably disabled automatic reboot.

Seems more likely than windows going into sleep mode while under load.


I'm sorry, but that fade out is not a crash, its Windows going to sleep, which it will do no matter what you're doing if you don't touch an input device for 20 minutes by default.

You seem like you really want 4.8Ghz to be unstable, why?

If it had instantly turned off, I'd call it as unstable, but the simple fact is it faded out and the fans, etc didn't stop spinning for a second. (Hence, its going into standby)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Yeah it's all good, no point in speculating on it after seeing the benchmarks AMD released anyways.


On actual performance yes, but that definitely wasn't a crash.

Although I'm curious about the volts, 1.5v seems very high for 32nm.


----------



## Schmuckley

bah 1.5 lol don't be askeered..this IS overclock.net..not "keep it stock.net"..psst jf..give us some marketing benchmarks


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


I'm sorry, but that fade out is not a crash, its Windows going to sleep, which it will do no matter what you're doing if you don't touch an input device for 20 minutes by default.

You seem like you really want 4.8Ghz to be unstable, why?


Edit: I'm gonna have to retract that, I set windows to sleep and turn off display after 1 minute, loaded up heaven, and after five minutes of no input from me either through the keyboard or mouse it did not go into sleep or turn the display off. Perhaps you should test it yourself.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

I like how AMD CPUs with different generations can still run on older motherboards. Unlike Intel when every set of processors come out you have to waste your money on a new motherboard







.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*


I like how AMD CPUs with different generations can still run on older motherboards. Unlike Intel when every set of processors come out you have to waste your money on a new motherboard







.


That's one of the two reasons I switched over from Intel to AMD, that and the better price/performance ratio.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


How'd the MFM drive on RLL go for you? Every time I did it when I had my old messing around with computer, I'd always end up with data loss.


You changed the Controller right? If not then the stepping motor on the drive will not respond accurate enough to hit all 26 sectors. It's only designed for 17. Oyjerwise I can't think of why you would have an issue I never a problem, did it with the 40mb st251 to 60mb as well. Platter swap, debug low level, fdisk format and bang 1/3 more HD.









Well except like I said about the bloody, but that wasn't a process issue.
















Also IIRC there was supposed to be a chip on the controller you could swap out instead of replacing it but That's about when the IDE's were first coming out and I migrated. Seagate to WD FTW!


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Edit: I'm gonna have to retract that, I set windows to sleep and turn off display after 1 minute, loaded up heaven, and after five minutes of no input from me either through the keyboard or mouse it did not go into sleep or turn the display off. Perhaps you should test it yourself.


I own a CHV and have had unstable CPU speeds crash. Here the MoBo didn't light up, fans never even twitched. It wasn't a crash -_- IDK what kind of windows your using, but for me if the program is in windowed then it will go to standby. Maybe that's what you did wrong? Fullscreen doesn't go into standby for me, only windowed.

For anyone who bought SB, BD will not make that any worse of an investment...stop dragging it through the mud like you guys own Intel, you just bought one of their chips.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I was running it in windowed mode









I'm also running Windows 8, but I don't think it changed the way windows does power management in that manner at least.

I've run windowed mode with some games afk macroing and never had an issue with the computer going into sleep, even after sleeping for eight + hours myself.

Either way though as I said, at this point it really doesn't mean much, it wasn't as if it was a cpu stability test in the first place so calling it "stable" based on that video isn't right either.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I was running it in windowed mode









I'm also running Windows 8, but I don't think it changed the way windows does power management in that manner at least.

I've run windowed mode with some games afk macroing and never had an issue with the computer going into sleep, even after sleeping for eight + hours myself.

Either way though as I said, at this point it really doesn't mean much, it wasn't as if it was a cpu stability test in the first place so calling it "stable" based on that video isn't right either.


Hmmmmm... that's weird







Yeah I doubt they would change the functionality in Win 8...Well anyway the Mobo doesn't react







Trust me







.......I created an account here to comment on BD originally, but I think I'm just gonna follow @AMD on twitter and stop reading here until release and benchies, I get so stressed out waiting for something official on these boards all the time! lol


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah this place can get to you pretty quickly...

Here is a "reported" bench from AMD:

http://translate.google.com/translat...d-fx-processor


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Yeah this place can get to you pretty quickly...

Here is a "reported" bench from AMD:

http://translate.google.com/translat...d-fx-processor


Yeah I saw that one. About as useful as OBR claiming to have Piledriver benches on his site, and that they're worse than athlon









I know I know, I can't just go cold turkey all at once though









I do have to say though, has there been any official word on the Antec Kuhler 620 rumors? If that is true...and those "benches" were really a 2500k versus the lower end 8 core BD (I'm not saying they were, or I think they were, or speculating or ANYTHING. Hypothetical guys. Don't have to convince me it wasn't so...), then the 8150 at ~$250 with the Antec will be an awesome bargain chip







I'll get to sell the Antec for $40! haha


----------



## BallaTheFeared

20% faster than an i5-2500k in highly threaded apps is about on par with an i7-2600k.

The only thing missing from this equation is single thread/lightly threaded gaming and how well windows manages the module so the performance hit isn't incurred during lightly threaded apps like modern gaming.

The problem I have there is how much performance is gained through not using both cores inside the module, if it's only a few percent, the single thread performance of bulldozer looks pretty underwhelming.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


20% faster than an i5-2500k in highly threaded apps is about on par with an i7-2600k.

The only thing missing from this equation is single thread/lightly threaded gaming and how well windows manages the module so the performance hit isn't incurred during lightly threaded apps like modern gaming.

The problem I have there is how much performance is gained through not using both cores inside the module, if it's only a few percent, the single thread performance of bulldozer looks pretty underwhelming.


Using a complex algorithm with the averages of other handbrake benchmarks

What ever the Bulldozer was at it was as fast as an i5 2500K @ 4.6GHz and 3-5 seconds slower than an i7 2600K @ 3.4GHz


----------



## Nocturin

Is it possible to make one core the size of a quad die(32nm beyond)? Would it be possible to push more IPC in this core? How? How would this affect multitasking? Cost?

If so, Why is the market moving in the "more cores" direction?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Is it possible to make one core the size of a quad die(32nm beyond)? Would it be possible to push more IPC in this core? How? How would this affect multitasking? Cost?

If so, Why is the market moving in the "more cores" direction?


Pollack's Rule....I think....It is an Intel rule not an AMD rule...might be some other rule but Intel said Many small cores will always be faster than fewer big cores


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Pollack's Rule....I think....It is an Intel rule not an AMD rule...might be some other rule but Intel said Many small cores will always be faster than Fewer big cores


Pretty much how GPU's got where they are now.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Is it possible to make one core the size of a quad die(32nm beyond)? Would it be possible to push more IPC in this core? How? How would this affect multitasking? Cost?

If so, Why is the market moving in the "more cores" direction?


Basically you are describing the Nvidia and ATI strategies. LOL

Parallelism is the goal now because multithreading seems to be the way to get more work done quicker. Monolithic Cores choke on muti threads.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Pretty much how GPU's got where they are now.


I want to talk about the Handbrake benchmark

An app compiled with the latest flags <-- you can say no to that as optimizations in codecs/programs take 1 week to 1 month afterwards...(I think in one of my applications it took 4 years to support SSE4.2 on Intel CPUs and AVX 1-4 months on Intel CPUs)
..... the CPU releases and is purchasable

One of the few applications I use almost daily...I talked with the maker and he said he isn't going to support AVX till SNB-E comes out as that is what his application is pointed at


----------



## Nocturin

Thank you for the responses







.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I want to talk about the Handbrake benchmark

An app compiled with the latest flags <-- you can say no to that as optimizations in codecs/programs take 1 week to 1 month afterwards...(I think in one of my applications it took 4 years to support SSE4.2 on Intel CPUs and AVX 1-4 months on Intel CPUs)
..... the CPU releases and is purchasable


I've read this like 6 times now, your intentions sounded interesting, but seems rather disjointed.

Can you please elaborate?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I want to talk about the Handbrake benchmark

An app compiled with the latest flags <-- you can say no to that as optimizations in codecs/programs take 1 week to 1 month afterwards...(I think in one of my applications it took 4 years to support SSE4.2 on Intel CPUs and AVX 1-4 months on Intel CPUs)
After the CPU releases and is purchasable


Sure, there are still a lot of things to consider outside of that too.

Clock speeds, exactly what processors were used? Was it running in turbo mode?

Overclocking, how fast can it go with normal cooling and be stable in actual high stress prime/folding type environments.

I don't really care about power draw, look at my sig... I run those power hungry monsters at 900 core. But others may, so what kind of performance it can achieve and how much power it draws could be important to some as well.

In the end i don't see optimization in the handbrake program bringing that eight core score up to a point where the IPC per core is up to the first gen core i series, let alone SB... However the other factors could sway it into AMD favor.

My biggest problem now is that even SB at high clocks (4.8-5.3GHz) just isn't where I want my processor to be per core, it can still bogs down my cards pretty badly in cpu intensive gaming. I want more than what SB gives me, the problem with bulldozer at least for me as a gamer, is that I'm not sure it can give me more of what I need than I currently get from SB.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


In the end i don't see optimization in the handbrake program bring that eight core score up to a point where the IPC per core is up to the first gen core i series, let alone SB... However the other factors could sway it into AMD favor.


Handbrake isn't an IPC benchmark it's an IPS benchmark
(You want as many iSSE instructions per second possible)

and 2-5 seconds slower than i7 2600K is still faster than the i7 first gen

This benchmark tells use the same thing as before XOP/AVX are not active


----------



## Nocturin

Fences, can't live with them, can't burn 'em down.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It's still eight cores vs 4/w HT.

The performance loss bulldozer suffers in gaming, can be as much as 80% whereas it would only be 60% for those processors you're referencing.

As I said though, they can make up for some of that with clock speeds. 1366 drops out around 4.2-4.4Ghz on water.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It's still eight cores vs 4/w HT.

The performance loss bulldozer suffers in gaming, can be as much as 80% whereas it would only be 60% for those processors you're referencing.


No benchmarks about Gaming that I have seen....I don't see where you get 80% or 60%

Games rarely use the Floating Point Coprocessor(Unless Physx and Havok is at play then you either have x87 or SSE or SSE2)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

8 cores is 100%, 2 cores is 25%. (so 75%, sorry)

The performance gain of HT is much less than the additional four cores bulldozer has, therefore it's rational to conclude the performance loss from limiting threads will be greater on bulldozer than cpus with less cores.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


8 cores is 100%, 2 cores is 25%. (so 75%, sorry)

The performance gain of HT is much less than the additional four cores bulldozer has, therefore it's rational to conclude the performance loss from limiting threads will be greater on bulldozer than cpus with less cores.


You would still see a performance gain from the K10s that was the goal with the increased IPC that Bulldozer has


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How can you say it has increased IPC?

We haven't seen a clock for clock core for core comparison yet, have we?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How can you say it has increased IPC?

We haven't seen a clock for clock core for core comparison yet, have we?


Actual Functional Units....

Phenom II has 3 sets of 64bit ALU+ 64bit AGUs (ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU)
These sets share a pipe that is only 64bits

You get half the theoretical IPC

FX has 2 sets of 64bit EX(ALU)+64bit AGLU(AGU) (ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU)
These sets do not share a pipeline everything is dedicated and they all can output 64bits

You get the full theoretical IPC

Knowing that Phenom II only allowed 1 64bit per pipe per functional unit pair says 3IPC
Knowing that FX allows 1 64bit per dedicated pipe says 4 IPC

In scenarios as games you can conclude that FX has a more stable and easier to read IPC where the Phenom II can be variable but never can be 64+64+64+64


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How can you say it has increased IPC?

We haven't seen a clock for clock core for core comparison yet, have we?


you honestly think AMD would spend years on a new architecture to have less core performance than phenom II?


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How can you say it has increased IPC?

We haven't seen a clock for clock core for core comparison yet, have we?


How can you make any of all this baseless guesswork that's rooted deep in shoddy math, and a limited understanding of CPU architecture? We haven't seem comparisons/benches yet, have we?

I took a Microprocessor course once (Comp.Sci. Student)...I think Bulldozer will have 60% increased IPC over ph!!!!! Quote me!!! *Insert farfetched explanation*


----------



## StarDestroyer

I'm not going to sleep for 2 weeks when SB arrives and I make sure open box MB works

so tried already

Quote:



you honestly think AMD would spend years on a new architecture to have less core performance than phenom II?


maybe if intel sent in wreckers

game developers need to up the way they use CPU since theres not even that much difference between pII and SB in many games, at least not for single GPU

so BD will probably be between SB and pII in games, beat the i5 when 8 cores are used, and be I don't know where vs the i7s, but cheaper


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14953493*
> Actual Functional Units....
> 
> Phenom II has 3 sets of 64bit ALU+ 64bit AGUs (ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU)
> These sets share a pipe that is only 64bits
> 
> You get half the theoretical IPC
> 
> FX has 2 sets of 64bit EX(ALU)+64bit AGLU(AGU) (ALU+AGU, ALU+AGU)
> These sets do not share a pipeline everything is dedicated and they all can output 64bits
> 
> You get the full theoretical IPC
> 
> Knowing that Phenom II only allowed 1 64bit per pipe per functional unit pair says 3IPC
> Knowing that FX allows 1 64bit per dedicated pipe says 4 IPC
> 
> In scenarios as games you can conclude that FX has a more stable and easier to read IPC where the Phenom II can be variable but never can be 64+64+64+64


So what your saying here is that it is a true definition of 64 bit technology with an algorythm that is multiple or equal to its self with a divider of 4 bringing a theoretical bandwidth of the 64 bit bandwidth where as before the multiple was devided and set by 32 and calculated by a single algorythm x by itself and calulated by 2 from a single core point (rythm)

2 x 32 = 64
4 x 32 = 128 devided by 2 = 64 PHII
4 x 64 = 256 devided by 2 = 128 BD


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Humm I don't have the file they used or settings for the handbrake bench, but if a Phenom II x6 users wants bench their chip at 4.4 or something we can see what the clock for clock difference is between sb and thuban with h264 encoding.

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=520

Here is the bench, just screen cap your results and I'll run it at the same clocks and we'll compare first pass scores to see how much of a difference the IPC increase is from 33% more cores on bulldozer (this is not exact).

Edit: I found one from an older thread where we did it.

Sandy Bridge was about 16.7% faster on the first pass, given bulldozer is about 20% faster than "some i5" with 33% more cores than Thuban that is about a 36% increase, or an increase of 3% over eight cores.

The only thing I don't know here is what clocks the bulldozer was at, and how it would perform in this benchmark since it is slower than handbrake.


----------



## Rebelord

Balla: PMd ya. I have a 1090T system that can be a guinea pig.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14952225*
> Edit: I'm gonna have to retract that, I set windows to sleep and turn off display after 1 minute, loaded up heaven, and after five minutes of no input from me either through the keyboard or mouse it did not go into sleep or turn the display off. Perhaps you should test it yourself.


Hmm, maybe it was the screen then?

It does on my laptop with Sins of a Solar Empire, I reinstalled Windows and when I leave it running while I go afk with laptop on AC Power, it goes to sleep.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14952512*
> You changed the Controller right? If not then the stepping motor on the drive will not respond accurate enough to hit all 26 sectors. It's only designed for 17. Oyjerwise I can't think of why you would have an issue I never a problem, did it with the 40mb st251 to 60mb as well. Platter swap, debug low level, fdisk format and bang 1/3 more HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well except like I said about the bloody, but that wasn't a process issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also IIRC there was supposed to be a chip on the controller you could swap out instead of replacing it but That's about when the IDE's were first coming out and I migrated. Seagate to WD FTW!


Hmm, I guess it was because the PC I had was fairly old, probably early versions of the hardware that weren't as stable, kinda like how CPUs get better over time? I know others have had issues like I've had.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;14953816*
> So what your saying here is that it is a true definition of 64 bit technology with an algorythm that is multiple or equal to its self with a divider of 4 bringing a theoretical bandwidth of the 64 bit bandwidth where as before the multiple was devided and set by 32 and calculated by a single algorythm x by itself and calulated by 2 from a single core point (rythm)
> 
> 2 x 32 = 64
> 4 x 32 = 128 devided by 2 = 64 PHII
> 4 x 64 = 256 devided by 2 = 128 BD


2 x 16, 1 x 32 = 32bit

2 x 32, 1 x 64 = 64bit

3 pipes that are 64bit wide with a 64bit ALU and AGU tied to each of those pipes

Pure ALU or AGU in 32bit mode = 96bits, while in 64bit mode = 192bits
But, no real world work load is pure ALU or pure AGU it is usually a mix with ALU + AGU between 1 and 2 for x86 so if that workload was optimized for CPUs that match this -> 2 ALUs + 2 AGUs requirement Phenom II lost out because it's missing a pipe

4 pipes that are 64bit wide with ALUp0, AGUp1, ALUp2, AGUp3

Pure ALU in 32bit mode = 64bits, while in 64bit mode = 128bits but the point of Bulldozer was realistic workloads not synthetic workloads

32bit/64bit aka x86/x86-64 real world averaged out IPC is between 1 and 2 for both ALU and AGU having more than 2 ALUs and 2 AGUs only helps with synthetic benchmarks


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14954228*
> 2 x 16, 1 x 32 = 32bit
> 
> 2 x 32, 1 x 64 = 64bit
> 
> 3 pipes that are 64bit wide with a 64bit ALU and AGU tied to each of those pipes
> 
> Pure ALU or AGU in 32bit mode = 96bits, while in 64bit mode = 192bits
> But, no real world work load is pure ALU or pure AGU it is usually a mix with ALU + AGU between 1 and 2 for x86 so if that workload was optimized for CPUs that match this -> 2 ALUs + 2 AGUs requirement Phenom II lost out because it's missing a pipe
> 
> 4 pipes that are 64bit wide with ALUp0, AGUp1, ALUp2, AGUp3
> 
> Pure ALU in 32bit mode = 64bits, while in 64bit mode = 128bits but the point of Bulldozer was realistic workloads not synthetic workloads
> 
> 32bit/64bit aka x86/x86-64 real world averaged out IPC is between 1 and 2 for both ALU and AGU having more than 2 ALUs and 2 AGUs only helps with synthetic benchmarks


Thank you *Seronx* its a nightmare with the way things and tech move nowdays,

So are we now with AMD stepping in to a true 64 bit calculating world ?

Also whats the difference between AMD's BD processor and Intels latest in turms of architecture ?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;14954291*
> So are we now with AMD stepping in to a true 64 bit calculating world ?


If Bulldozer was Pentium 4 with 2 Fast ALUs that could combine into 1 Slow ALU you would be in the world of 128bit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;14954291*
> Also whats the difference between AMD's BD processor and Intels latest in turms of architecture ?


I would rather do a comparison of AMD FX Bulldozer Processors vs Intel EE Haswell Processors

But Intel is kinduh late....aren't they


----------



## Rebelord

These are some quick benchmarks using the x264 that Balla posted on a 1090T:
System:
MB: Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3
CPU: 1090T w/212+ p/p
Ram: 16G G.Skill Ripjaws 4x4G 1600Mhz 9-9-9-24 2T 1.65v
HDD: WD Black 500G Sata II

I ran everthing with the Bios Set to Auto. Aka stock settings for everything. Ram was however manually set to 9-9-9-24 2T 1600Mhz at all times.
NB: 3000Mhz at all times.

Results for x264.exe r1913
==========================

Pass 1

encoded 1442 frames, 122.75 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 128.02 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 127.86 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 128.14 fps, 3913.31 kb/s

Pass 2

encoded 1442 frames, 32.22 fps, 3959.14 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 32.34 fps, 3958.95 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 32.44 fps, 3959.58 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 32.31 fps, 3960.00 kb/s

This pass was with just doing a quick 20x multi adjust. Everything else the same. I just bumped the multi to get to a quick 4.0Ghz overclock. Nothing else was tweaked etc.

Results for x264.exe r1913
==========================

Pass 1

encoded 1442 frames, 150.04 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 149.83 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 149.59 fps, 3913.31 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 149.80 fps, 3913.31 kb/s

Pass 2

encoded 1442 frames, 39.42 fps, 3961.17 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 39.79 fps, 3959.06 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 39.90 fps, 3958.47 kb/s
encoded 1442 frames, 39.91 fps, 3960.14 kb/s

Tommorow night. I can move the 1090T to my 990FXA-UD7 and work with some possibly faster ram, Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz 1.5v
I will be avail, to possibly be on TS, Skype etc with someonet to achieve the highest OC I can possibly do on the 212+ and optimize ram and re run the tests. BTW, only TIM I have is some still of the ****ty CM 212+ stock TIM. =(

Rebelord

Edit: Reason I mention the TIM is because I did see a max temp of 51*c on the 4Ghz run. So, I believe I'll be temp limited once we reach ~55*c.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah pretty much the same results I was going off of already.










i5 @ 4Ghz AvG: 175.25

1090T @ 4GHz Avg: 149.82

175.25 - 149.82 = 25.43 / 175.25 = 0.145 or 14.5% lower performance in first pass (what they benched with bulldozer)

33% more cores than Thuban was 20% faster than an unnamed i5, however there is no i5 that runs at 4GHz in any situation except overclocked. In this case we're looking at a 34.5% increase in performance, with 33% more cores. However this can't be exact until we get more information, it's the best I can do with what i have though.

It probably would have been the 8110, which * rumored* is at a base clock of 3.6GHz with a max turbo of 4GHz. Without knowing exactly what the step one turbo is, we can only assume it's higher than 3.6Ghz, but lower than 4Ghz.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14954720*
> Yeah pretty much the same results I was going off of already.
> i5 @ 4Ghz AvG: 175.25 1090T @ 4GHz Avg: 149.82 175.25 - 149.82 = 25.43 / 175.25 = 0.145 or 14.5% lower performance in first pass (what they benched with bulldozer) 33% more cores than Thuban was 20% faster than an unnamed i5, however there is no i5 that runs at 4GHz in any situation except overclocked. In this case we're looking at a 34.5% increase in performance, with 33% more cores. However this can't be exact until we get more information, it's the best I can do with what i have though. It probably would have been the 8110, which * rumored* is at a base clock of 3.6GHz with a max turbo of 4GHz. Without knowing exactly what the step one turbo is, we can only assume it's higher than 3.6Ghz, but lower than 4Ghz.[/QUOTE]
> 
> [IMG alt="results.png"]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7lZxwM5b-ro/TnLfcTZiaEI/AAAAAAAABDY/_LQaaoTiv0U/s1600/results.png
> 
> All of OBRs Results with Hypothetical Clocks and Turbocores
> 
> Final production silicon - No
> Final processor microcode - No(I wouldn't know but assuming no is usually the best answer in these cases)
> Final system BIOS - No
> Final OS optimizaitons - No
> Final drivers - No(I wouldn't know but assuming no is usually the best answer in these cases)
> An app compiled with the latest flags - Most No, Some Yes(x264 r1913 supports Bulldozer but is that what he tested with these look like 2nd passes which usually utilize the CPU more(Note: It supports Bulldozer but it isn't optimized for Bulldozer))
> A person who understands the app and configures the test properly - Intel Enthusiast, unknown agenda
> 
> Also,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (98% chance it's a placeholder)
> ShopBLT says September 22, 2011 it's Thursday and THAT IS A PROBABLE DATE, Phenom I was released/launched on a Thursday and K8 was launched on the 23rd
> 
> "SledgeHammer"
> Athlon 64 FX-51
> According to wiki September 23rd, 2003
> (That was a Tuesday, Tuesday-Thursday is the range though)
> 
> Return of the FX on the day(or week) FX started would be an interesting launch though


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14953039*
> Is it possible to make one core the size of a quad die(32nm beyond)? Would it be possible to push more IPC in this core? How? How would this affect multitasking? Cost?
> 
> If so, Why is the market moving in the "more cores" direction?


Increasing IPC is hard job. There are few µarchs, which have high IPC, and none of them are compatible or similar to x86

Multicore is the only way


----------



## GaMEChld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14952225*
> Edit: I'm gonna have to retract that, I set windows to sleep and turn off display after 1 minute, loaded up heaven, and after five minutes of no input from me either through the keyboard or mouse it did not go into sleep or turn the display off. Perhaps you should test it yourself.


Yeah well, I set my Windows to never sleep, and it randomly decides to undo that setting on its own perrogative. ::shrug::


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14954752*
> .


We aren't talking about ORB results, we're talking about results that reportedly came from AMD while IDF was going on.

Could be 100% not legit, but it's something instead of constant theorycraft.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;14953507*
> you honestly think AMD would spend years on a new architecture to have less core performance than phenom II?


100%agree


----------



## GaMEChld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;14953308*
> Fences, can't live with them, can't burn 'em down.


I'll have to boot up minecraft and test that statement.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14954752*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of OBRs Results with Hypothetical Clocks and Turbocores


Garbage! It's all I can say.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14955066*
> We aren't talking about ORB results, we're talking about results that reportedly came from AMD while IDF was going on.
> 
> Could be 100% not legit, but it's something instead of constant theorycraft.


If it came from AMD, then there would be some blog at AMD with the results. I haven't seen anything from AMD, just people saying it came from AMD. Something doesn't sound right.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14955394*
> If it came from AMD, then there would be some blog at AMD with the results. I haven't seen anything from AMD, just people saying it came from AMD. Something doesn't sound right.


^^^This







+1 sir


----------



## Schmuckley

oy..is the 19th the day? i hope it's ready for launch..geez..after i've been waiting for a year..amd missed out on some money around june when they delayed the bd launch..mayhaps not a super-huge share of the market..but some..


----------



## Benz

Benchmarks of the earlier Bulldozers have been leaked that's why they delayed the launch date. It's better this was because they'll be even faster.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I always find myself going back to AMD.
It's a love-hate relationship.

A week or two ago I pretty much ragequit on Bulldozer.


----------



## baltar

Quote:


> Also,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (98% chance it's a placeholder)
> ShopBLT says September 22, 2011 it's Thursday and THAT IS A PROBABLE DATE, Phenom I was released/launched on a Thursday and K8 was launched on the 23rd
> 
> "SledgeHammer"
> Athlon 64 FX-51
> According to wiki September 23rd, 2003
> (That was a Tuesday, Tuesday-Thursday is the range though)
> 
> Return of the FX on the day(or week) FX started would be an interesting launch though


Preordered.. Can't wait for it..

Mobo failed on my previous primary machine since August.. I was actually using a Opteron 275 on a tyan thunder k8we for a good 4 1/2 years.. Only major Upgrade I did to it was went from a geforce 8800gtx to a geforce 285...

Now that the mobo failed, I've been watching out and waiting for the bulldozer since then, and personally I would be surprised if it doesn't launch by then.. I think this is the golden date


----------



## JDTreece

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baltar;14955888*
> Preordered.. Can't wait for it..
> 
> Mobo failed on my previous primary machine since August.. I was actually using a Opteron 275 on a tyan thunder k8we for a good 4 1/2 years.. Only major Upgrade I did to it was went from a geforce 8800gtx to a geforce 285...
> 
> Now that the mobo failed, I've been watching out and waiting for the bulldozer since then, and personally I would be surprised if it doesn't launch by then.. I think this is the golden date


Did the same a bit earlier... I really want to get this rig running.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14954752*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of OBRs Results with Hypothetical Clocks and Turbocores
> 
> Final production silicon - No
> Final processor microcode - No(I wouldn't know but assuming no is usually the best answer in these cases)
> Final system BIOS - No
> Final OS optimizaitons - No
> Final drivers - No(I wouldn't know but assuming no is usually the best answer in these cases)
> An app compiled with the latest flags - Most No, Some Yes(x264 r1913 supports Bulldozer but is that what he tested with these look like 2nd passes which usually utilize the CPU more(Note: It supports Bulldozer but it isn't optimized for Bulldozer))
> A person who understands the app and configures the test properly - Intel Enthusiast, unknown agenda
> 
> Also,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (98% chance it's a placeholder)
> ShopBLT says September 22, 2011 it's Thursday and THAT IS A PROBABLE DATE, Phenom I was released/launched on a Thursday and K8 was launched on the 23rd
> 
> "SledgeHammer"
> Athlon 64 FX-51
> According to wiki September 23rd, 2003
> (That was a Tuesday, Tuesday-Thursday is the range though)
> 
> Return of the FX on the day(or week) FX started would be an interesting launch though


Please never bring up any results from OBR again!

He already came out and ADMITTED HIMSELF that he made them all up to fool everyone!

They're all lies! Everytime someone refers to those benchmarks, they're referring to complete garbage and fairytales...those results are bogus.

Of course, if he's just stating his opinion of how he "thinks" BD will perform, that's different. But if he's saying he has benchmarked it and these are the results, it's pure crap, since he's come out and said he lied about the benchmarks already.

And if he did that, can you really trust anything else this guy says\posts?


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;14955588*
> oy..is the 19th the day? i hope it's ready for launch..geez..after i've been waiting for a year..amd missed out on some money around june when they delayed the bd launch..mayhaps not a super-huge share of the market..but some..


Kyle pretty much said no in [H] news thread for the 8150 WR. Of course that doesn't rule out an earlier NDA break day...but since it's Friday lol at that happening now. So the realist in me says that it's probably pushed back.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I think AMD should make another announcement it seems the online chatter regarding BD has died down today


----------



## Evil Penguin

Now about the whole 9-22 thing...
Remember the last time BLT did this?
The 16 core server BD CPU had a release date.
Never happened.
I still believe BD will launch within the first half of October.

The 22nd is the last day before summer ends.
Would be a nice surprise.


----------



## bru_05

I can't believe there hasn't been a solid leak yet. Maybe there has, but to me everything seems fishy so far.

As for pre-ordering, is that BLT site legit? Anyone ever buy from them?


----------



## BigCactus

September 26.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14951025*
> I worked for zenith data systems back in the early 90's. But it was owned by groupe bull by that time.


The Bull that bought Honeywell? I remember them.
Quote:


> If I said it, it's fair game. Anyone can quote anything I say, as long as they don't alter it.


I'd never alter it...and if it's unclear, I'll usually ask you if you can clarify.

I've been misquoted and had my statments altered before. Just check out the sig of a Dutchman named Kristian on here. He modified one of my statements...so, he gets no free beer when I go to Holland.








Quote:


> I don't need a fan club, I'm just a marketing guy. Nothing more.


AMD should give you a medal for all the guff you put up with. I see what you deal with here, and then can only imagine the BS you have to deal with in private emails.

You might not need a fan club, but you deserve one.


----------



## BigCactus

JCK loves jf....we got a bromance goin on


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14956628*
> September 26.


Is this date supposed to mean anything?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14956628*
> September 26.


----------



## Nocturin

December 12, 2012!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14956648*
> You might not need a fan club, but you deserve one.


^^^This







+1


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14956695*
> JCK loves jf....we got a bromance goin on


Yep. You know it.









I just admire anyone who can put up with ridicule, angst focused toward them, or people asking them the same question about the same thing in different context or terms to try and dig out an answer that doesn't exist or isn't going to be said.

If he says he can't tell, he isn't gonna say. John tells what he can.

Besides, he has the best first name ever...and not just because it's mine too









It was a John who baptized Jesus, pushed to put man on the moon, gave us Lord of the Rings, Grapes of Wrath, and most importantly...what some people don't know...Ozzy Osbourne was named...John









But anyways...JF-AMD...deserves a lot of respect for what he puts up with.

I would have told a few of you here to go to hell and take your attitude with you long ago.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14956877*
> Yep. You know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just admire anyone who can put up with ridicule, angst focused toward them, or people asking them the same question about the same thing in different context or terms to try and dig out an answer that doesn't exist or isn't going to be said.
> 
> If he says he can't tell, he isn't gonna say. John tells what he can.
> 
> Besides, he has the best first name ever...and not just because it's mine too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a John who baptized Jesus, pushed to put man on the moon, gave us Lord of the Rings, Grapes of Wrath, and most importantly...what some people don't know...Ozzy Osbourne was named...John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But anyways...JF-AMD...deserves a lot of respect for what he puts up with.
> 
> I would have told a few of you here to go to hell and take your attitude with you long ago.


I still like the idea of everyone at OCN pitching in to build John a killer gaming pc, so if/when he has free time we could all game together.









Edit: I know when I get my BD rig built, I would enjoy gaming online with some of you guys.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14955394*
> If it came from AMD, then there would be some blog at AMD with the results. I haven't seen anything from AMD, just people saying it came from AMD. Something doesn't sound right.


Oh boy...when will the *REAL* Bulldozer benchmarks come???


----------



## hokiealumnus

To quote JF-AMD's oft-repeated mantra: benchmarks on release.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14956929*
> I still like the idea of everyone at OCN pitching in to build John a killer gaming pc, so if/when he has free time we could all game together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I know when I get my BD rig built, I would enjoy gaming online with some of you guys.


I think John has said before he's not much into gaming...I think. I'd have to go way back and look for the quote he made about what he likes to do in his off time that I read once. I think he mentioned biking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;14957151*
> Oh boy...when will the *REAL* Bulldozer benchmarks come???


If I knew...I wouldn't tell you, cause I'd know from JF-AMD (since he's the only person inside AMD I've had contact with in years lol) and I wouldn't want to get him fired.

But...oh man...if I had a 8150 and a Sabertooth...I'd be OCing that bad boy and saving screenshots on a thumb drive.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;14957151*
> Oh boy...when will the *REAL* Bulldozer benchmarks come???


Hmmm let me guess, hmmm it's a tough one.

Launch day?


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14957205*
> Hmmm let me guess, hmmm it's a tough one.
> 
> Launch day?


That would be a great answer, except we don't have an idea of when "launch day" is


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;14957226*
> That would be a great answer, except we don't have an idea of when "launch day" is


sure we do,it gets posted at least once a day. every time 2010rig posts,it's in his sig

*launch date on the launch date
launch date on the launch date
launch date on the launch date
launch date on the launch date*


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14957263*
> sure we do,it gets posted at least once a day. every time 2010rig posts,it's in his sig
> 
> *launch date on the launch date*


Haha, "launch date" has pretty much become AMD's excuse whenever they need to delay Zambezi some more.

"Need another month for a respin? No problem. *We'll still be on schedule because it will still launch on the launch date*."


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14957201*
> I think John has said before he's not much into gaming...I think. I'd have to go way back and look for the quote he made about what he likes to do in his off time that I read once. I think he mentioned biking.


Yeah I read that post when someone first said about building him a rig...I THINK he said the only gaming he does is on his Wii, I saw the pic he posted of his bike its nice. wonder if he would enjoy a 360


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14957331*
> Yeah I read that post when someone first said about building him a rig...I THINK he said the only gaming he does is on his Wii, I saw the pic he posted of his bike its nice. wonder if he would enjoy a 360


Nah, PS3 it only does everything








looking to get me another one since there only 250$ now..


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;14957387*
> Nah, PS3 it only does everything


Good point....Hey JF-AMD would you enjoy a PS3?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14956877*
> Yep. You know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just admire anyone who can put up with ridicule, angst focused toward them, or people asking them the same question about the same thing in different context or terms to try and dig out an answer that doesn't exist or isn't going to be said.
> 
> If he says he can't tell, he isn't gonna say. John tells what he can.
> 
> Besides, he has the best first name ever...and not just because it's mine too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a John who baptized Jesus, pushed to put man on the moon, gave us Lord of the Rings, Grapes of Wrath, and most importantly...what some people don't know...Ozzy Osbourne was named...John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But anyways...JF-AMD...deserves a lot of respect for what he puts up with.
> 
> I would have told a few of you here to go to hell and take your attitude with you long ago.


Yes such trials and tribulations jf-amd must be going through on this forum. Soldiers in Afghanistan pale in comparison to this marketing heroism we are witnessing.

Seriously I don't know if serious...


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14957412*
> Yes such trials and tribulations jf-amd must be going through on this forum. Soldiers in Afghanistan pale in comparison to this marketing heroism we are witnessing.
> 
> Seriously I don't know if serious...


Ummm...what does Afghanistan have beans to do with JF-AMD, Bulldozer, Zambezi or anything else in computing, or the guff he takes from trolls here or in his private email?

Can you say...discussion...hard left turn...unexpected?









Let's not talk about hardships. I've got enough of those in my personal life right now.

At least soldiers can shoot at what they want to get rid of.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14956929*
> I still like the idea of everyone at OCN pitching in to build John a killer gaming pc, so if/when he has free time we could all game together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I know when I get my BD rig built, I would enjoy gaming online with some of you guys.


I would rather see you guys build a killer PC and give it to some inner city kid who wants to be a programmer, it is wasted on me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14957399*
> Good point....Hey JF-AMD would you enjoy a PS3?


I use a wii to do my yoga in the morning. I am at the other end of the gaming spectrum.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;14957286*
> Haha, "launch date" has pretty much become AMD's excuse whenever they need to delay Zambezi some more.
> 
> "Need another month for a respin? No problem. *We'll still be on schedule because it will still launch on the launch date*."


Yep!! Hey boss, I will show up to work when I feel I am at optimal performance levels, please disregard my prior commitments as I was hung over and didn't have my crap together as expected.

Well at least they aren't giving another 30-90 day line, only to let the enthusiast down again. Was most definitely poor PR not to make an announcement after they failed to deliver. Soured my taste for AMD as a whole, only thing that will make up for it is *superior* BD performance.

I have an associate from another forum, discovered he bought the sabertooth a month ago in anticipation for BD







. WHY?? You dont know what BD will bring to the table. His fault for jumping the gun and buying into all the BD hype but he is pretty much a victim of AMD's BD release disaster. Where is his damn chip to put in his MB AMD????


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14957666*
> I would rather see you guys build a killer PC and give it to some inner city kid who wants to be a programmer, it is wasted on me.


I wonder if OCN could organize a fund raiser to donate computers to an inner city school in honor of John


----------



## Whyzguy

So I just got paid for the first time. Wonder when I'll get to use it on a BD chip.

I do have a question tough. When they finally do launch, what's the availability for people like us up here in Canada?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14957602*
> At least soldiers can shoot at what they want to get rid of.


So wrong. So very very wrong. You need a fire command first and foremost. We have things called the rules of engagement and if you disobey them you could be in front of a firing squad.

The point of his post was the glorification of the hardships John has put up with by being here.

I'd like to say none of my posts have been directly aimed at John. Im glad he has a nice job at AMD Im glad he does it well but my posts were all directed at AMD, he happens to represent them. Thats simply it. I've never pmed him (or anyone else on this board for that matter) nor would I.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Slow day in regards to BD news...hopefully this is the calm before the storm


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14957412*
> Yes such trials and tribulations jf-amd must be going through on this forum. Soldiers in Afghanistan pale in comparison to this marketing heroism we are witnessing.
> 
> Seriously I don't know if serious...


^this. Glorify this guy because he ignores some jack a$$. It's great he is on here but some of the butt kissing done is just embarrassing


----------



## Canis-X

IDK, I feel that it's less embarrassing than the folks that come onto this thread and are rude to him.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14957891*
> So wrong. So very very wrong. You need a fire command first and foremost. We have things called the rules of engagement and if you disobey them you could be in front of a firing squad.
> 
> The point of his post was the glorification of the hardships John has put up with by being here.
> 
> I'd like to say none of my posts have been directly aimed at John. Im glad he has a nice job at AMD Im glad he does it well but my posts were all directed at AMD, he happens to represent them. Thats simply it. I've never pmed him (or anyone else on this board for that matter) nor would I.


I said can, never said do without orders. You're reading into. Nice try.

And just FYI: My father was Army, both his brothers retired military, and most of my uncles (including the one I was named for who was a retired Navy officer and veteran of Pearl Harbor) were military. I was raised around ex-military people all my life, including my friends fathers who were vets of Korea and Vietnam, and buddies I had from college through today (a few of whom are over there right now).

So, let me assure you...I never even thought about it the way BigCactus implied I was. Neither I, nor anyone else here I saw, tried to compare for glorification John's efforts here against anything soldiers or military families go through. BigCactus brought it up out of thin air. So, it was moot to begin with.

Cool? Understand now?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14958170*
> ^this. Glorify this guy because he ignores some jack a$$. It's great he is on here but some of the butt kissing done is just embarrassing


Done.

@JF-AMD: any news?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14958264*
> I said can, never said do without orders. You're reading into. Nice try.
> 
> And just FYI: My father was Army, both his brothers retired military, and most of my uncles (including the one I was named for who was a retired Navy officer and veteran of Pearl Harbor) were military. I was raised around ex-military people all my life, including my friends fathers who were vets of Korea and Vietnam, and buddies I had from college through today (a few of whom are over there right now).
> 
> So, let me assure you...I never even thought about it the way BigCactus implied I was. Neither I, nor anyone else here I saw, tried to compare for glorification John's efforts here against anything soldiers or military families go through. BigCactus brought it up out of thin air. So, it was moot to begin with.
> 
> Cool? Understand now?
> 
> Done.
> 
> @JF-AMD: any news?


Your butt kissing or "admiring" a guy that gets paid to create buzz around AMD products. It's like praising a janitor for cleaning up a floor. Look I'm sure JF-AMD is a good kid, but most of the information from this thread has come from official announcements by AMD and various techie sites. It's not like he's been giving OCN members any tid bits or crumbs to keep us tech mongers and tech romanticists at bay.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14958389*
> Your butt kissing or "admiring" a guy that gets paid to create buzz around AMD products. It's like praising a janitor for cleaning up a floor. Look I'm sure JF-AMD is a good kid, but most of the information from this thread has come from official announcements by AMD and various techie sites. It's not like he's been giving OCN members any tid bits or crumbs to keep us tech mongers and tech romanticists at bay.


He's been letting us know what he can, but more importantly tell us (in various ways) what not to trust.

Anyone else at AMD do that for you, me, or OCN?

And as John has said before: He does not do this as part of his job.

And another FYI, I have praised janitors before where I worked. Good work is to be commended when someone goes above and beyond. I even tipped my garbage men at Christmas because they would haul stuff off that they weren't required to.

Anyways, back to trying to find out if there's any new news today about Zambezi...please?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14955394*
> If it came from AMD, then there would be some blog at AMD with the results. I haven't seen anything from AMD, just people saying it came from AMD. Something doesn't sound right.


Yeah maybe I should have looked more into it.

Keep the faith


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14958240*
> IDK, I feel that it's less embarrassing than the folks that come onto this thread and are rude to him.


Yup, this is a good point, given that he is posting on his own time.


----------



## jck

Decided to put this in its own post, rather than an old one.

Just a little proof, said back in August 2010 by John:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10540679*
> That is not my call. If you guys aren't happy with my being here, it's no big deal. *I do this on my own time, not the company time.* Just let me know.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14958264*
> I said can, never said do without orders. You're reading into. Nice try.
> 
> And just FYI: My father was Army, both his brothers retired military, and most of my uncles (including the one I was named for who was a retired Navy officer and veteran of Pearl Harbor) were military. I was raised around ex-military people all my life, including my friends fathers who were vets of Korea and Vietnam, and buddies I had from college through today (a few of whom are over there right now).
> 
> So, let me assure you...I never even thought about it the way BigCactus implied I was. Neither I, nor anyone else here I saw, tried to compare for glorification John's efforts here against anything soldiers or military families go through. BigCactus brought it up out of thin air. So, it was moot to begin with.
> 
> Cool? Understand now?
> 
> Done.
> 
> @JF-AMD: any news?


Yes I understand that what you said was stupid. I get that. So now you are rescinding it and saying oh well I was really saying anyone with a firearm can do what I just said. Sheesh. Don't patronize me =) I'm not the one.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Whyzguy;14957820*
> So I just got paid for the first time. Wonder when I'll get to use it on a BD chip.
> 
> I do have a question tough. When they finally do launch, what's the availability for people like us up here in Canada?


When it launches it is available worldwide.


----------



## Canis-X

Are we there yet JF?


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14958703*
> Yes I understand that what you said was stupid. I get that. So now you are rescinding it and saying oh well I was really saying anyone with a firearm can do what I just said. Sheesh. Don't patronize me =) I'm not the one.


If you read what I said and what I meant by it, you'd know it wasn't stupid.

My mother has cancer. You can't just shoot cancer to get rid of it. Right?

Thanks. I'm stupid. Have a nice day


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;14958529*
> Decided to put this in its own post, rather than an old one.
> 
> Just a little proof, said back in August 2010 by John:


He's also said that quite a few times this year too!

Goes to show the neighborhoods....


----------



## radaja

*Breaking news!!*

*Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*

I cant believe it


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;14956028*
> And if he did that, can you really trust anything else this guy says\posts?


Does it matter?

Some have verified that he has an Engineer Sample how he received it is unknown it was definitely not from AMD

The normal clocks for his ES is 3.2GHz and 3.6GHz he is running it OC'ed to match the supposed FX-8150 which is 3.6GHz and 4.2GHz

And he couldn't even hit 7.0-8.0GHz so his ES is rather old(Chew* ratted him out on this)

Not to mention some workloads show inconsistency more than others
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14958756*
> *Breaking news!!*
> 
> *Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*
> 
> I cant believe it


Oh snap!!! I got gotta tell my construction company!!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14958719*
> When it launches it is available worldwide.


John's comments are like Confucius, sometimes.







just kidding with ya John


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14958756*
> *Breaking news!!*
> 
> *Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*
> 
> I cant believe it


another day with no BD news, just delays


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14958756*
> *Breaking news!!*
> 
> *Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*
> 
> I cant believe it


radaja, do me a favor and stand over there.........







LOL


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14958841*
> radaja, do me a favor and stand over there.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL


where?here? Ok im ready


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14958756*
> *Breaking news!!*
> 
> *Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*
> 
> I cant believe it


OMG!!! You got me on that one!!! LMAO


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;14958881*
> OMG!!! You got me on that one!!! LMAO


what are the odds of me finding a new bulldozer being released today that isnt OUR bulldozer,to be able to post that?


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14958756*
> *Breaking news!!*
> 
> *Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*
> 
> I cant believe it


I want to see benchmarks.

How many tons of, uh, sand, could it bulldoze?









(although seriously, myself being an engineer and my dad a mining geologist, the Cats D11s are nothing short of amazing. My other hobby is tractors and other heavy diesels)


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14959003*
> what are the odds of me finding a new bulldozer being released today that isnt OUR bulldozer,to be able to post that?


Hey, it's Friday....twas a long week at work and I didn't get much sleep last night.....what can I say....LOL


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14959005*
> I want to see benchmarks.
> 
> How many tons of, uh, sand, could it bulldoze?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (although seriously, myself being an engineer and my dad a mining geologist, the Cats D11s are nothing short of amazing. *My other hobby is tractors and other heavy diesels)*


Soon everything will be streamlined under the Bulldozer Umbrella and our lives will be much better


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14958389*
> Look I'm sure JF-AMD is a good kid


Lol define kid...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14958389*
> Look I'm sure JF-AMD is a good kid,


Meet JF-AMD

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7kr4kimeM&feature=channel_video_title[/ame]


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14959766*
> Meet JF-AMD


I know, it was just funny to see him referenced as a "kid".


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14959766*
> Meet JF-AMD
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7kr4kimeM&feature=channel_video_title


maybe not the best video for the argument

still playing with toys just like a Kid,


----------



## BallaTheFeared

i must have clicked "performance" 1000 times and nothing happens!!!!!!



















































lol @ the comments:
Quote:


> Yeah, what's up with the﻿ front end loader? Apparently identifying heavy equipment is not their forte.


----------



## el gappo

http://www.overclock.net/benchmarking-software-discussion/1118811-benchmark-editor-bulldozer-benchoff-win-bulldozer.html

dun dun duhhhh


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14959882*
> http://www.overclock.net/benchmarking-software-discussion/1118811-benchmark-editor-bulldozer-benchoff-win-bulldozer.html
> 
> dun dun duhhhh


to be clear its this saturday?
so NDA is over soon then?

EDIT:nevermind i re-read it and i'm a sad panda for sure.
Quote:


> On *A* Saturday


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14959308*
> We'll be doing it as close to the nda lift/launch as possible so yeah


PS: good luck and i hope you win


----------



## el gappo

No not this Saturday. Saturday after launch.

Me too lol. Cheers


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14959920*
> to be clear its this saturday?
> so NDA is over soon then?
> 
> PS: good luck and i hope you win


I hope so. (The NDA lifting)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

You never finished telling me about the UEFI clickers... the suspense is killing me









Also I'm going to watch and I hope I get your setup, muahahaha, muhahahahah!


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14959947*
> You never finished telling me about the UEFI clickers... the suspense is killing me


You don't wanna know...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Cruel world we live in


----------



## radaja

So im going to go with Saturday Oct 8th for my guess


----------



## newnub123

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/16/virtual-travel/ news LOL last post of J_F


----------



## jck

@JF-AMD:

Can I hitch a ride in your suitcase?

Oh wait...they don't make 6'6" suitcases.


----------



## Chico212

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


*Breaking news!!*

*Big Bulldozer Announcement 09/16/2011*

I cant believe it










-_-


----------



## Naturecannon

True or not with date accuracy and in the History of CPU releases......leaks of info like this tell you BD is about to hit the shelves very soon.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

Note the ETA of 09-22-2011


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


True or not with date accuracy and in the History of CPU releases......leaks of info like this tell you BD is about to hit the shelves very soon.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

Note the ETA of 09-22-2011


Good point







Can you use your mobo with BD?


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Good point







*Can you use your mobo with BD?*


I don't see why not.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14960674*
> Good point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you use your mobo with BD?


here what chew* said about MB's(but i think he's refering to the Extreme's not formulas?)but what do i know
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chew*;4950958*
> chiv is better suited to thuban, ch5 is better suited to bd.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chew*;4950979*
> Your asking the wrong question.
> 
> Will it work? Yes
> 
> The right question is will it be optimal? No.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I don't see why not.



Cool just checking


----------



## Benz

But he'll probably be limited at best.


----------



## croSSeduP

You know why I'm excited for the Bulldozer release? Because then I can buy someone's cast off AM3, DDR3, SLI mobo, RAM, 1090T chip, and then purchase a second GTX570SC to ad to my present one for a formidable gaming platform.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *croSSeduP*


You know why I'm excited for the Bulldozer release? Because then I can by someone's cast off AM3, DDR3, SLI mobo, RAM, 1090T chip, and then purchase a second GTX570SC to ad to my present one for a formidable gaming platform.


thats a very good point,a lot of people dont understand the value of used parts these days,and even worse are the ones who scream " I would never buy used parts from a forum,because it's too risky".to them i say............
"oh well,your Loss"


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;14960823*
> here what chew* said about MB's(but i think he's refering to the Extreme's not formulas?)but what do i know


Then this means it is possible other 8 series boards will work with AM3+ BD?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Then this means it is possible other 8 series boards will work with AM3+ BD?


i think some yes,but AMD says BD is not supported in AM3


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i think yes,but AMD says they will not support it.


Warranty level meaning if it breaks you can't ship it back to AMD

Overclocking and AM3 is a big no no if you want a warranty


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


But he'll probably be limited at best.


Edit nevermind I'm tired and slow


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Warranty level meaning if it breaks you can't ship it back to AMD

Overclocking and AM3 is a big no no if you want a warranty


I'm just wondering, how would AMD know if a chip was in an AM3 mobo?









Besides, even in AM3+ no chip is supported if/when overclocked, right? Eventhough they are "unlocked" and meant to be overclocked.


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm just wondering, how would AMD know if a chip was in an AM3 mobo?









Besides, even in AM3+ no chip is supported if/when overclocked, right? Eventhough they are "unlocked" and meant to be overclocked.


Likewise, how are they to know it was overclocked, or that you didn't use the stock cooler. Unless you're a total dolt and admit it they're not gonna know.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity*


Likewise, how are they to know it was overclocked, or that you didn't use the stock cooler. Unless you're a total dolt and admit it they're not gonna know.


Exactly, so I don't understand why people make a big deal about the lack of support, when it's mostly a non-issue.

One of the mods here on OCN ( I forget which one, and too lazy to look it up ) RMA'd a 2500K which he had running at 5.0 GHZ, he got one back in a few days. It was a painless process. Not sure if AMD makes you jump through hoops or anything, as I've never RMA'd an AMD CPU before.


----------



## radaja

update on the operation scorpius contest
they seem to be sending confirmation emails again
i got this after todays submission-AMD - Thank you for your submission


----------



## black96ws6

I posted this on another forum and I think it deserves to be posted here:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MovieMan*

I watched some "real" benches.. The AMD holds it's own very well against a 980X and when you kick in the price difference between it and a 980X it's a no brainer.

*I'll say it this way, IF I was building a gaming machine I would use the FX8150 and not think twice about it*, and buy the family's food for the month with the savings!


Look at that statement in bold.

IF he is correct, how can you not think BD is a win for AMD?

Here's the link to the quote: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4950183


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


I posted this on another forum and I think it deserves to be posted here:

Look at that statement in bold.

IF he is correct, how can you not think BD is a win for AMD?

Here's the link to the quote: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4950183


i see it as him saying against a 990x it will be the better choice and yes its a no brainer


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


I posted this on another forum and I think it deserves to be posted here:

Look at that statement in bold.

IF he is correct, how can you not think BD is a win for AMD?

Here's the link to the quote: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4950183


I love his AMD Bulldozer avatar, which is plowing Intel's logos, he doesn't seem like a biased guy at all.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I love his AMD Bulldozer avatar, which is plowing Intel's logos, he doesn't seem like a biased guy at all.










It's funny you mention that, supposedly he recently changed it after he saw the real benchmarks....


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm just wondering, how would AMD know if a chip was in an AM3 mobo?









Besides, even in AM3+ no chip is supported if/when overclocked, right? Eventhough they are "unlocked" and meant to be overclocked.


I think its safe to say that CPUs are the toughest most up to standard part of a CPU

look at how many other things arrive DOA or fail after a year


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


It's funny you mention that, supposedly he recently changed it after he saw the real benchmarks....


I see, I don't hang out at that forum, so wouldn't know. It just seemed like a biased opinion based on his avatar.

Besides, what's the point of comparing it to a 980x? Why not compare it to a 2600K or 2500K even, since those are both better at gaming, and much closer in price. I guess it wouldn't have the same dramatic effect huh?

This reminds me of those leaked benchmarks recently, comparing the 8 core BD to a 980X in gaming, and comparing to an i5 in rendering. It's just not logical to make those comparisons, unless of course you want the BD CPU to shine in both scenarios.

Compare it to the 980X in rendering, and the i5 in gaming, and let's see what happens.

I have no further comments.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I see, I don't hang out at that forum, so wouldn't know. It just seemed like a biased opinion based on his avatar.

Besides, what's the point of comparing it to a 980x? Why not compare it to a 2600K or 2500K even, since those are both better at gaming, and much closer in price. I guess it wouldn't have the same dramatic effect huh?


Click on that link and read further down, I think he alludes to the performance against those as well.

But again you're right. We don't know the full details. What if it was against a stock 2600k? How do they compare OC'd to OC'd? Too many unknowns.

However, as the release date gets closer and people start seeing benchmarks, things ultimately start to slip out:

Here is another nugget that was found today:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...011-idf_5.html

Look at the final remarks section:

Quote:



*Final Remarks*
Everything we saw this week that was related to the upcoming LGA 20111 platform proves that it is going to launch very shortly. The mainboard makers suspect that at this time the launch is planned for some time in mid November, but Intel may push this important even to an earlier date just as easily. *So, AMD Bulldozer processors wonâ€™t be enjoying their leadership for long: they should soon face a very serious opponent.*

The following slide will give you some idea about the performance of the Sandy Bridge-E processors. Here we compare Core i7-3960X against Core i7-990X for LGA 1366.


Someone who's seen real benches says AMD takes the lead, but won't hold it for long when SB-E comes out.

My comment on that is, I disagree. If AMD is < $300 and SB-E is >$500 I would go with the best bang for the buck (AMD)...and put the money saved on an SSD\\Video Card or SLI\\Crossfire setup...


----------



## StarDestroyer

if there was a pII x8, what would it do vs top i7 last gen's

FX8 will probably be more similar to that than it is to a 4core or 6core intel


----------



## iggydogg

Just found this at post at the Zone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Smartidiot89*

I got some time alone with a Bulldozer system with a retail sample FX-8150 and what we've seen so far seems correct, and AMD aren't even sure internally(!) when Bulldozer will launch. I am well aware it still could be an old BIOS/AGESA code so don't lecture me on that.

I'll be a tease as I'll write an article about it tomorrow specifically what I know about the when they think(!) launch will take place approximatelly, but now it's bed time... Too much beer, too little sleep and too much fun :mrgreen:

*EDIT:* AussieFX, I'll try leave the cannabis out of the article this time :lol:


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Click on that link and read further down, I think he alludes to the performance against those as well.

But again you're right. We don't know the full details. What if it was against a stock 2600k? How do they compare OC'd to OC'd? Too many unknowns.

However, as the release date gets closer and people start seeing benchmarks, things ultimately start to slip out:

Here is another nugget that was found today:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...011-idf_5.html

Look at the final remarks section:

Someone who's seen real benches says AMD takes the lead, but won't hold it for long when SB-E comes out.

My comment on that is, I disagree. If AMD is < $300 and SB-E is >$500 I would go with the best bang for the buck (AMD)...and put the money saved on an SSD\\Video Card or SLI\\Crossfire setup...


That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I agree with that route though. I think that BD will always be compared to SB since they are so close in price.

Have you seen TomsHardware's preview?

I hope this is no indication of final performance, because if it is, I'm not very impressed ( see I am capable of criticizing Intel too







) We'll see how well SB-E overclocks though.

This changed my outlook on my upgrade plans to go SB-E. My current rig will do better with a Gulftown upgrade ( used 980x or 990x ), and we'll see what my 2nd build will be between a 2700K or 8150.

Exciting times ahead, that's for sure though.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I hope this is no indication of final performance, because if it is, I'm not very impressed ( see I am capable of criticizing Intel too







) We'll see how well SB-E overclocks though.


Sandy Bridge-Enthusiast shouldn't have a cold-bug because it isn't on Intel's "Bulk" Fabrication Process(Sandy Bridge-Enthusiast and Bulldozer should be on the same fabrication process 32nm HKMG SOI w/ SiGe Strain)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Exciting times ahead, that's for sure though.


Yep....
I forsee the Battle of Titans(FX vs EE on World Record Frequencies)


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I love his AMD Bulldozer avatar, which is plowing Intel's logos, he doesn't seem like a biased guy at all.










It's not exactly bias considering this guy _*was*_ an Intel guy up until now.


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i see it as him saying against a 990x it will be the better choice and yes its a no brainer


Yeah, and I don't think anyone expected otherwise. The 2-300 dollar chips usually are no brainers when compared to the EEs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


It's funny you mention that, supposedly he recently changed it after he saw the real benchmarks....


Yeah, I bet.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


I think its safe to say that CPUs are the toughest most up to standard part of a CPU

look at how many other things arrive DOA or fail after a year


I don't think I've ever heard of someone having a DOA CPU. They don't tend to fail either. They are very tough.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Compare it to the 980X in rendering, and the i5 in gaming, and let's see what happens.


Exactly this. The comparisons are so obviously cherry picked.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Have you seen TomsHardware's preview?

I hope this is no indication of final performance, because if it is, I'm not very impressed ( see I am capable of criticizing Intel too







)


I wasn't particularly impressed either. It's.. ok.. I guess? Maybe I expected too much. ..Like an affordable 6 core.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


It's not exactly bias considering this guy _*was*_ an Intel guy up until now.


this!!!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


It's not exactly bias considering this guy _*was*_ an Intel guy up until now.


Good point. I didn't know that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I see, I don't hang out at that forum, so wouldn't know. It just seemed like a biased opinion based on his avatar.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


Just found this at post at the Zone


I don't believe it.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *croSSeduP;14960982*
> You know why I'm excited for the Bulldozer release? Because then I can buy someone's cast off AM3, DDR3, SLI mobo, RAM, 1090T chip, and then purchase a second GTX570SC to ad to my present one for a formidable gaming platform.


With a single 1080p monitor, you're looking at a formidable cpu bottleneck with underwhelming price vs performance.


----------



## croSSeduP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14963671*
> With a single 1080p monitor, you're looking at a formidable cpu bottleneck with underwhelming price vs performance.


OK... So what would you suggest?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Keep your 570 and don't waste your time going SLI/CF until you go surround.


----------



## croSSeduP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14964073*
> Keep your 570 and don't waste your time going SLI/CF until you go surround.


Well, I'll never go surround, so I guess it'll be the single GTX570.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *croSSeduP;14963983*
> OK... So what would you suggest?


Get the other 570 and fold.









Back on topic...did any "surprises" ever come from AMD other than the "benchmarks" and the overclock thing?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Trust me it makes more sense, in most titles you won't see much of a difference with SLI, and a Phenom II x6 isn't much different than what you currently have in gaming.

There are a few games that will use up a lot of the SLI performance, like Crysis 2, and Metro 2033 when the settings are maxed out. But most others will be severely limited by the Phenom II performance, no matter which Phenom II you have. However the aforementioned games can be run on a single 570 with slightly lower settings. Most of the others simply don't even need SLI.

Another 570 is going to cost you around $300, the side grade probably another $100-$200, the overall gain would be worth about $150 in performance.


----------



## StraightSixZ

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5134P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!#Availability

estimated time of arrival 9-22-11 :O


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StraightSixZ;14964356*
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5134P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!#Availability
> 
> estimated time of arrival 9-22-11 :O


Nice, lets hope that date holds true.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StraightSixZ;14964356*
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=01100300U031_BLA5134P.shtml&order_id=!ORDERID!#Availability
> 
> estimated time of arrival 9-22-11 :O


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;14964428*
> Nice, lets hope that date holds true.


I wouldn't get your hopes up.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14964464*
> I wouldn't get your hopes up.


So? It's a server grade Opteron,compared to a desktop processor,they are usually much more expensive.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14964558*
> So? It's a server grade Opteron,compared to a desktop processor,they are usually much more expensive.












shopbit.com claimed the Opterons would arrive on August 5th, and did they deliver on that promise?

Hence, don't get your hopes up for a September 22nd delivery.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14964587*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shopbit.com claimed the Opterons would arrive on August 5th, and did they deliver on that promise?
> 
> Hence, don't get your hopes up for a September 22nd delivery.


Didn't they change to November....well they are back into October

On that Opteron

(98% chance it's a placeholder)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14964623*
> Didn't they change to November....well they are back into October
> 
> On that Opteron
> 
> (98% chance it's a placeholder)


Yeah, last I checked they're saying October 10th.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14489186*
> When you see those things pop up on random web sites it is typically a bad data feed from their distributor. The disti turns on SKUs they shouldn't and the reseller just takes the whole feed.
> 
> The funny thing is that you can't even be sure that the data is real. Sometimes they load with dummy data as a placeholder. I am specifically not looking at the link because I don't want to have to start answering questions about details. But I would be a bit careful on these things.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14964696*
> Yeah, last I checked they're saying October 10th.


10-11-2011

It's October 11th now
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;14964428*
> Nice, lets hope that date holds true.


But, yeah don't trust ShopBLT ---> Read the JF-AMD Post <---


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14964587*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shopbit.com claimed the Opterons would arrive on August 5th, and did they deliver on that promise?
> 
> Hence, don't get your hopes up for a September 22nd delivery.


Sorry I totally missed that part.
AMD has already showed us overclocking,release can't be too far away.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14964738*
> 10-11-2011
> 
> It's October 11th now
> 
> But, yeah don't trust ShopBLT


If server chips are being released first and the availability date is right (I really doubt it is) that would push FX dates to late October or November. Launch date is on the launch date.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> Well why don't you order one? If you get it then it is real, if you don't get it than it isn't. Our embargos always say no advertising or taking orders prior to launch. I would guess that anyone offering to sell it now is breaking the embargo. That doesn't seem wise to me, I would think that if you wanted to be the first to have it on your shelves and make real money, you'd follow the rules to ensure you got your supply first. But, hey, what do I know?


His answer to ShopBLT showing Pre-orders

Thanks for telling us there is an embargo!


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14964738*
> 10-11-2011
> 
> It's October 11th now
> 
> But, yeah don't trust ShopBLT ---> Read the JF-AMD Post <---


if server BD is mid Oct, don't expect desktop BD until Nov


----------



## kchris

I wonder what I will see first, dragons and unicorns or Bulldozer actually on shelves.


----------



## KittensMewMew

It will come out when it comes out. Think of it like Valve games- takes forever, but sweet bliss when it arrives. Hopefully. Look at DNF! That was a runaway success, right?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;14968116*
> It will come out when it comes out. Think of it like Valve games- takes forever, but sweet bliss when it arrives. Hopefully. Look at DNF! That was a runaway success, right?


I loved it.


----------



## KittensMewMew

I wasn't being entirely sarcastic- if you played the original games and knew what you were in for it was awesome. Otherwise it felt like a game from the late 90s.

Bulldozer will come soon, we just have to be patient. I can't wait to see the bench-off though.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;14968197*
> I wasn't being entirely sarcastic- if you played the original games and knew what you were in for it was awesome. Otherwise it felt like a game from the late 90s.
> 
> Bulldozer will come soon, *we just have to be patient*. I can't wait to see the bench-off though.


Patience is not a virtue right now hehe..


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;14968610*
> Patience is not a virtue right now hehe..


In regards to BD, patience is becoming a skill


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14968743*
> In regards to BD, patience is becoming a skill


Lol i'm inclined to agree


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14968743*
> In regards to BD, patience is becoming a skill


When my patience wears thin I have to stop and walk away for awhile. The way this year has flown past though it won't be much longer.


----------



## BigCactus

september 26 isn't that far away.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14968810*
> september 26 isn't that far away.


I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KittensMewMew;14968116*
> It will come out when it comes out. Think of it like Valve games- takes forever, but sweet bliss when it arrives. Hopefully. Look at DNF! *That was a runaway success, right?*


I haven't played Duke Nukem Forever myself,but the reviews are very mixed,most say the game is just ok.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14968930*
> I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


JF, are you referring to your statement shown below from your blog?
Quote:


> John Fruehe September 7, 2011
> 
> They have not been in production for a couple of months. We have gone into production very recently. Production, start to finish, on a wafer, *is more like 12-13 weeks*.


----------



## nyates

Hmmmm... 12-13 weeks from now... +shipping time... = Christmas?

That doesn't really seem in line with the recent news, OC record being broken, lame benchmarks being put out... I'm guessing that isnt what he meant. Though... Who knows.


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14968930*
> I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


JF, I appreciate what you are doing here and I have read your blog.

For those who aren't reading the blog, the most recent *relevant* post concerning dates is from *September 7th* and has this to say (JF, hope I'm not crossing any lines here, let me know if so):
Quote:


> Last week, we passed a momentous milestone in the life of "Bulldozer" - our first production shipments have left Singapore.
> 
> This is important because, while we have shipped thousands of parts up to now that were engineering samples, this first shipment of production parts is a revenue shipment, so Bulldozer is now officially in production.
> 
> The first parts off the line were 16-core "Interlagos" parts. We expect to be launching "Interlagos" in Q4, a little later than we had hoped, but still in time for server deployments in 2011. Between now and the launch, we have plenty of work to do. Parts are shipping to all of our key partners now, so that they can finish their final platform validation testing. There are also several large opportunities that AMD will be fulfilling prior to launch, so while this looks like everyone can relax now, the work is actually just starting.
> 
> ...watch for some exciting news as we pull into Q4 and keep your eyes on the server space, because "Interlagos" is now shipping.


My takeaway from this is that Interlagos will launch with some manner of availability in Q4. Let's hope that's early in October. *Zambezi will be later*. Let's hope that's before November, limiting the wait from the previously established June launch date to 4 months. My $0.02.


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyates;14969459*
> Hmmmm... 12-13 weeks from now... +shipping time... = Christmas?
> 
> That doesn't really seem in line with the recent news, OC record being broken, lame benchmarks being put out... I'm guessing that isnt what he meant. Though... Who knows.


That was in the comments and I believe he meant that they had been in production for more than two months. That was the question that was asked. The post also says that the parts are shipping, so the 12-13 weeks he's talking about have already passed.


----------



## StepanPepan

He was probably talking about this:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John Fruehe*
> The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and *it will launch in Q4.*


Comment from September 7, under: http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14968930*
> I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


So you deny the september 26 release date...


----------



## StepanPepan

September is obviously not in set Q4 = {October, November, December}


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14968930*
> I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


I know John







Its just that I am at the point that I am in denial and believe BD will be here this month regardless of what anyone says.

I believe a wise man once said, something to the affect, to not trust what you see on the internet until launch day







lol


----------



## tw33k

There are a couple of big electrical chains clearing out old AMD powered laptops. Buy 1 get 1 free. Bulldozer can't be far now.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> I guess if more people read my blog things would be clear. I recommend it, there is lots of good information.


Read the blog ayy The blog has no useful information at all in it. I dont see bulldozer coming this month. maybe by the end of *OCT* beginning of *NOV*. Hopefully the wait proves that it was worth it


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14969556*
> He was probably talking about this:
> 
> Originally Posted by John Fruehe
> The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4
> 
> Comment from September 7, under: http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/


What year?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*   What year?







  
   
 You Tube


----------



## tw33k

Anyone else seen this?
Bulldozer Benchmark


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Amdahl's law is at work because the workload didn't increase(If the H.264 was for a certain number of threads those who leaked that demo information should have said so because if it was 4 thread vs 4 thread X264/H264 then that is a core vs core comparison but so far we only heard it's a CPU vs CPU comparison)


Why do we need core vs core comparison?

If I'm aiming at ~$250 on a CPU, it's either a 2500k or a FX-8150/FX-8130 for me, I couldn't care less about it being 8 cores vs 4 cores, whichever chip is faster as a whole for what I do at overclocked speeds, I'll get that one.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Why do we need core vs core comparison?

If I'm aiming at ~$250 on a CPU, it's either a 2500k or a FX-8150/FX-8130 for me, I couldn't care less about it being 8 cores vs 4 cores, whichever chip is faster as a whole for what I do at overclocked speeds, I'll get that one.


ironically almost all viewport dynamics in 3ds max is calculated on a single thread so even if amd can top intel in rendering buck for buck but is slower then a c2d generation cpu per core then there is no way in hell i'd buy it


----------



## sumadinac82

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Why do we need core vs core comparison?

If I'm aiming at ~$250 on a CPU, it's either a 2500k or a FX-8150/FX-8130 for me, I couldn't care less about it being 8 cores vs 4 cores, whichever chip is faster as a whole for what I do at overclocked speeds, I'll get that one.


i agree.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


If those are accurate, my current 1055T just mildly overclocked to 3.5Ghz beats them both in WPrime 32M single thread and Super PI 1M


If there is any credibility to the article,the Bulldozer FX chip tested was most likely a early ES sample.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


It's credible to the degree that in Performance/Watt/mm^2 OBR chip isn't Representative to the final chip

If you were going for a CPU you wouldn't ever have gone for the 2500K in the first place because that is an APU


 A person who would buy a K CPU would probably use a dedicated graphics card in the first place.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


If there is any credibility to the article,the Bulldozer FX chip tested was most likely a early ES sample.


The same B0 he used before June....it is abysmally old

The time from the point his B0 was made from what we would be getting will be like 5+ months
A lot of problems could have been validated and fixed by then


----------



## Phantom123

For anyone wanting to know more. Smartidiot over at AMD Zone got to spend a very short time with a final production Bulldozer (what he thinks anyway). Quote of him under neath.

Quote:



Sorry for causing unnecessary bad news, I was really tired last night when I posted and didn't compare the numbers to anything else. According to the numbers I got using the system Bulldozer would've had the same CPU performance with wPrime 32M as AMD "Llano" A6-3650. Seriously, no, flucking, way. I included both that and SuperPi (yeah I ran SuperPi out of stress and pressure with my extremly limited time with the system alone so I put the blame on a brain fart). I think old BIOS/AGESA code is the culprit as it was supposed to be a retail sample under the cooler...

BUT the launch was confirmed by AMD themselves to me in person. Massproduction of the FX-series are underway, and while AMD still are uncertain about the launch they hope it will be within 4-5 weeks. They also still expect it to be the worlds fastest consumer CPU which Movieman on XS kind of confirms where he says it will hold its own against Core i7 980X: Xtreme Forums Post

Anyway for the full exclusive article, follow the link below.
Article


----------



## Brutuz

Eh, SuperPi is a useless benchmark, the only recent application of note that uses x87 code is PhysX, iirc.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Eh, still a useless benchmark, the only recent application of note that uses x87 code is PhysX, iirc.


It uses SSE2...when it was recently bought by Nvidia it was x87, after getting caught using x87 and getting outpaced by Intel's Havok solutions they went to SSE2

Nothing today in real world workloads should use x87

SSE5 might be more useful for calculating Pi, Prime, and rendering images than x87 and SSE2 but I have no understanding on ISAs I only know more equals faster and more accurate


----------



## Buckaroo

I am more interested in what BD can do in games personally.
Lets hope AMD can pull a Lloyd Christmas and totally redeem itself with games and real world apps.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Indeed x87 is worthless.

Not much longer now, hopefully we see a 20-30% increase in performance for FX with production samples, even then I wouldn't take one as a gamer but at least it would be a decent upgrade for current AMD users in both gaming and multithreading.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Not much longer now, hopefully we see a 20-30% increase in performance for FX with production samples, even then I wouldn't take one as a gamer but at least it would be a decent upgrade for current AMD users in both gaming and multithreading.


I'm expecting 50%(1.5x) to 100%(2x) once all applications start using optimal ISAs and optimal pipes and games it is all about how high you can clock it....and 5+GHz on water is a beautiful sight


----------



## raisethe3

From what I scavenged in this thread:

I see that JF told us about Bulldozer:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


*All we have said is Q2.* There are 3 months in each quarter, so you have a 33% chance of being right.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That article was not right.

*We have said Q2 for client products since November of last year.* Our CEO said "early summer." Summer begins in Q2.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


It is taking as long as it takes.

Last year we said 2011. *Then we said Q2 for client, Q3 for server. That continues to be the timeframe.*

People are getting too impatient and thinking that there is some behind the scenes thing going on. The reality is that things continue to run on the same schedules.

We are following the exact same process as we always do. And actually saying more about the processor than we normally do. We never release the data you are all demanding prior to launch. Why should this be any different?


Dude, clearly said Q2, so I am thinking it has to launch this month, not October, not November and definitely not December. If that isn't the case, then tell me what Q3 of '11 (October and November?), what's Q4 of '11 (just December?) Kind of silly if you put it that way. Any company will tell you that.

Then all of the sudden I see quote say

Originally Posted by John Fruehe
The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07...-of-a-new-era/

What's the change? If you go back to that quote, on the second line, "that continues to be the timeframe", I am assuming that its still on track for this month Q2, no?

If not, I guess I am either fooled or lied to. Its driving me crazy.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


If not, I guess I am either fooled or lied to. Its driving me crazy.


I blame the motherboard manufacturers


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


From what I scavenged in this thread:

I see that JF told us about Bulldozer:

Dude, clearly said Q2, so I am thinking it has to launch this month, not October, not November and definitely not December. If that isn't the case, then tell me what Q3 of '11 (October and November?), what's Q4 of '11 (just December?) Kind of silly if you put it that way. Any company will tell you that.

Then all of the sudden I see quote say

Originally Posted by John Fruehe
The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07...-of-a-new-era/

What's the change? If you go back to that quote, on the second line, "that continues to be the timeframe", I am assuming that its still on track for this month Q2, no?

If not, I guess I am either fooled or lied to. Its driving me crazy.


What? We're at the end of Q3 right now, Q4 is October November and December which is when the chip is said to launch...Q3 was this month and the previous two. I think you got your quarters mixed up, cause I'm pretty sure AMD goes by the calendar year.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


It uses SSE2...when it was recently bought by Nvidia it was x87, after getting caught using x87 and getting outpaced by Intel's Havok solutions they went to SSE2

Nothing today in real world workloads should use x87

SSE5 might be more useful for calculating Pi, Prime, and rendering images than x87 and SSE2 but I have no understanding on ISAs I only know more equals faster and more accurate


So they finally updated it? x87 is ancient, from the days of having an external copro.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Indeed x87 is worthless.

Not much longer now, hopefully we see a 20-30% increase in performance for FX with production samples, even then I wouldn't take one as a gamer but at least it would be a decent upgrade for current AMD users in both gaming and multithreading.


Thats the thing, will it be a "decent upgrade"........ since those of us with 890FX will need to purchase 990FX to take full advantage of BD performance. If we have to buy another MB and BD matches SB why not just go Intel (after the poor AMD BD PR anyways).

All these quarterly delays really put a wrench in my upgrade plans and I know many others too. Might just go Intel so I dont have to go through this gut wrenching AMD fiasco again when the next several rounds of launches come along in the future. This is Not an "Im going Intel rant"......... Really, if Intel prices are competing and AMD cant beat performance why stick around with them, gotta upgrade MB anyways!!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


From what I scavenged in this thread:

I see that JF told us about Bulldozer.....

If not, I guess I am either fooled or lied to. Its driving me crazy.


I have never lied.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


So they finally updated it? x87 is ancient, from the days of having an external copro.


Past:

Physx 2.X code is x87+Singlethread

Current:

Physx 3.0 code uses SSE+Multithreading
(More cores equals more Physx capabilities)


----------



## mav451

About the Q2, I don't think JF lied or intentionally misled us. He probably honestly didn't know.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have never lied.


True, technically you didn't.









Quote:



Originally Posted by JF-AMD
We expect to launch the client version of â€œBulldozerâ€ (code named â€œZambeziâ€) in Q2 2011. The server products (â€œInterlagosâ€ and â€œValenciaâ€) will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


Now on the other hand, AMD straight up lied in the June 1st announcement if we dont see BD by the end of summer (next week). If its not a lie an explanation is owed, at least to those whom bought hardware and or banked on the release announcement for a new build. Whatever percentage us bread crumb enthusiast are, its still owed in my opinion. Word of mouth goes a long ways.


----------



## Phantom123

Like it said in Smartidiot posts, AMD Employees do not even know when the Bulldozer is going to exactly launch at. So if AMD Employees do not know, I highly doubt JF will know anything about Desktop schedules.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have never lied.


Haha, thanks John for the in-depth explanation.









(I'm joking, I know you go through these questions 10^25 times a day; we appreciate someone from AMD even being here.)


----------



## StarDestroyer

november or december, unless BD gets eaten by a unicorn


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Thats the thing, will it be a "decent upgrade"........ since those of us with 890FX will need to purchase 990FX to take full advantage of BD performance. If we have to buy another MB and BD matches SB why not just go Intel (after the poor AMD BD PR anyways).

All these quarterly delays really put a wrench in my upgrade plans and I know many others too. Might just go Intel so I dont have to go through this gut wrenching AMD fiasco again when the next several rounds of launches come along in the future. This is Not an "Im going Intel rant"......... Really, if Intel prices are competing and AMD cant beat performance why stick around with them, gotta upgrade MB anyways!!


According to the reviews,there is little difference in 890FX vs 990FX unless you want SLI or slightly faster SATA III performance.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


Like it said in Smartidiot posts, AMD Employees do not even know when the Bulldozer is going to exactly launch at. So if AMD Employees do not know, I highly doubt JF will know anything about Desktop schedules.


Wow...not even the AMD _employees_ know when BD launches? Get it together AMD,before it's too late.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


According to the reviews,there is little difference in 890FX vs 990FX unless you want SLI or slightly faster SATA III performance.


I may be wrong but find the 990FX reviews pointless without the chip they are made for! Besides the sexy UEFI BIOS anyways


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I'm expecting 50%(1.5x) to 100%(2x) once all applications start using optimal ISAs and optimal pipes and games it is all about how high you can clock it....and 5+GHz on water is a beautiful sight


I'm expecting to receive a check for $300 billion dollars, but I don't actually think it will arrive.

5+GHz is ok, I want more though. I don't think they'll (neither AMD nor Intel) make a cpu anytime soon where I'll go... "welp, that's enough for me". I've been thinking about IB since picking up SB, which I didn't even know about until my AM2+ board died and I started to look around for a new board/ddr3.

I don't think IB will get me where I want to go either, AVX2 seems to be the next big thing... Here's to hoping it delivers.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm expecting to receive a check for $300 billion dollars, but I don't actually think it will arrive.

5+GHz is ok, I want more though. I don't think they'll (neither AMD nor Intel) make a cpu anytime soon where I'll go... "welp, that's enough for me". I've been thinking about IB since picking up SB, which I didn't even know about until my AM2+ board died and I started to look around for a new board/ddr3.

I don't think IB will get me where I want to go either, AVX2 seems to be the next big thing... Here's to hoping it delivers.


Have you considered SB-E?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


I may be wrong but find the 990FX reviews pointless without the chip they are made for! Besides the sexy UEFI BIOS anyways










True.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't think IB will get me where I want to go either, AVX2 seems to be the next big thing... Here's to hoping it delivers.


http://software.intel.com/en-us/blog...now-available/

Haswell's AVX2 includes what is in SSE4a and XOP/FMA4 <--(except it's FMA3 which is the destructive one right?)

So, AMD is early if the October date is correct


----------



## BallaTheFeared

AVX2 is what AVX currently is to Intels Floating Point performance, but for Integer core performance.

Basically it takes an i5-2500ks synthetic linpack performance from 70 GFLOPs to 135 GFLOPs.

Since I couldn't care any less than I do now about linpack performance or FP for that matter it's pretty much worthless to me. However Integer performance, well that's what I need.

I don't know what AMD's new instructions sets do.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14973419*
> Wow...not even the AMD _employees_ know when BD launches? Get it together AMD,before it's too late.


My aunt works for IBM, that doesn't mean she knows exactly when a new PowerPC chip launches.
Different parts of AMD will know/have guesses and they pass the more realistic ones onto others.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14961596*
> Besides, what's the point of comparing it to a 980x? Why not compare it to a 2600K or 2500K even, since those are both better at gaming, and much closer in price. I guess it wouldn't have the same dramatic effect huh?


Because Gulftown is still faster than SB ? (in many tests)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14961751*
> Have you seen TomsHardware's preview?
> 
> I hope this is no indication of final performance, because if it is, I'm not very impressed ( see I am capable of criticizing Intel too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) We'll see how well SB-E overclocks though.
> 
> This changed my outlook on my upgrade plans to go SB-E. My current rig will do better with a Gulftown upgrade ( used 980x or 990x ), and we'll see what my 2nd build will be between a 2700K or 8150.
> 
> Exciting times ahead, that's for sure though.


This is what i expected.
You have the same cores, with same throughput/GHz. Adding more memory channels doesn´t add much performance (true in desktop enviroment, server is a bit different though)
This platform is more server-ish than desktop or enthusiast. (who needs SAS, if he can buy PCIE SSD´s ... etc)

People said: _"BD will be weak against SB, and will completely lose against SB-E"_ I knew this was overhyped a bit. Intel uses ringbus connected L3´s , it´s fast but adding more cores decreases performance - scaling with added cores is less than expected.
IMO that´s why intel is using less than 6 cores in general, perhaps it will not change in future


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14973708*
> AVX2 is what AVX currently is to Intels Floating Point performance, but for Integer core performance.
> Basically it takes an i5-2500ks synthetic linpack performance from 70 GFLOPs to 135 GFLOPs.Since I couldn't care any less than I do now about linpack performance or FP for that matter it's pretty much worthless to me. However Integer performance, well that's what I need.
> 
> I don't know what AMD's new instructions sets do.


XOP is integer subset.
(IIRC , AVX2 will have some similar instructions with XOP)?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOP_instruction_set

So XOP is almost the same thing as AVX2 from Intel, while FMA4 is basically AVX for AMD?

Also I agree 2011 is a server socket, not giving 1155 two x16 PCIe lanes was a money grab move by Intel.


----------



## ninox999

isnt bulldozer releasing tomorrow? CMON AMD WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH!!!!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14973210*
> I have never lied.


its not your fault if the fabs and engineer encounter problems along the way ...

and we can't blame you for relaying the message given by your bosses


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14975372*
> isnt bulldozer releasing tomorrow? CMON AMD WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH!!!!


It's supposed to be, then JF mentioned it's pushed back until Q4 which would be sometime in October, November or December.. Lets keep our fingers crossed for the 19th though.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14975349*
> Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOP_instruction_set
> 
> So XOP is almost the same thing as AVX2 from Intel, while FMA4 is basically AVX for AMD?
> 
> Also I agree 2011 is a server socket, not giving 1155 two x16 PCIe lanes was a money grab move by Intel.


XOP equals some stuff in AVX2, AVX2 is reactionary to FMA4 and XOP

AVX is AVX for AMD

A lot of partners didn't like LGA 1356 so Intel supposedly dropped it for LGA 2011
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14975207*
> People said: _"BD will be weak against SB, and will completely lose against SB-E"_ I knew this was overhyped a bit. Intel uses ringbus connected L3´s , it´s fast but adding more cores decreases performance - scaling with added cores is less than expected.
> IMO that´s why intel is using less than 6 cores in general, perhaps it will not change in future


People also said in opposite in expensiveness
"Sandy Bridge-E is expensive, Then Sandy Bridge is average, and Bulldozer will be below it"

and then they say
"That reflects performance"
leading to what you said


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How is XOP going to perform with integer's, specifically in gaming?

If it's not the same instruction set Intel will be using, will it require specific coding to take advantage of it (like AVX)?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14975399*
> its not your fault if the fabs and engineer encounter problems along the way ...
> 
> and we can't blame you for relaying the message given by your bosses


I agree with this +1

However I wouldn't say "I have never lied" thats an open ended statement that can be run with.

I would have said "I have never lied about Bulldozer" Closing the statement with a specific thing. I mean we've all lied.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14975710*
> How is XOP going to perform with integer's, specifically in gaming?


Unknown and most games on the market will abuse existing ISAs not new ones

The first thing to use XOP will be x264 if AMD can give the developers what they need
(Multimedia/HPC first then Games last)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14975710*
> If it's not the same instruction set Intel will be using, will it require specific coding to take advantage of it (like AVX)?


Specific Coding like AVX

The XOP instructions include:

Integer vector multiply-accumulate instructions
Integer vector horizontal addition
Integer vector compare
Integer vector shift and rotate instructions
Vector byte permutation
Vector conditional move instructions
Floating-point fraction extraction


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14975710*
> How is XOP going to perform with integer's, specifically in gaming?
> 
> If it's not the same instruction set Intel will be using, will it require specific coding to take advantage of it (like AVX)?


To benefit from it, game must be recompiled to support XOP.
(i dont know what games will support it, if any)

TOP500 guys will benefit most from XOP FMA4 AVX (HPC, crude oil search,climate prediction,........) These guys recompile for max performance
_please make it happen in [email protected],BOINC







_


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pietro sk;14975778*
> _please make it happen in [email protected],BOINC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Folding @ Home will definitely support FMA4

They supported it with Nvidia Fermi they will support it with AMD Bulldozer

Cray XK6 Supercomputer (Arrays?) with a modified Windows OS for ∞ amount of CPUs and GPUs will be beasts in [email protected]


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14975796*
> Folding @ Home will definitely support FMA4
> 
> They supported it with Nvidia Fermi they will support it with AMD Bulldozer
> 
> Cray XK6 Supercomputer (Arrays?) with a modified Windows OS for ∞ amount of CPUs and GPUs will be beasts in [email protected]


Question about folding.. Ive been doing [email protected] off and on for about 8 years.. I am just wondering is BOINC ever goign to support ATI cards or is it because of physx and cuda that they only support Nvidia.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14975825*
> Question about folding.. Ive been doing [email protected] off and on for about 8 years.. I am just wondering is BOINC ever goign to support ATI cards or is it because of physx and cuda that they only support Nvidia.


http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/ATI_Radeon

Hope that helps


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14973278*
> About the Q2, I don't think JF lied or intentionally misled us. He probably honestly didn't know.


I have always been overly aware of launch dates. When I make statements, those are based on two things: the schedule estimates at the time and the public launch statement.

Public launch statements are the official plan of record and that is all I am allowed to say. Period. If the launch date changes, nobody is allowed to make a statement about the the new date until PR/AR has approved it and usually it is a senior executive that makes the statement because launch dates and shipping dates have implications for wall street.

Earlier this year, when we believe that the launch date was Q2 for client and Q3 for server, every time I was asked, that is what I said. If you were anal-retentive enough to read all of my posts, you would see there was a point where I stopped answering that question. I knew the launch date had changed, but a new one had not been communicated publicly yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naturecannon;14973301*
> Now on the other hand, AMD straight up lied in the June 1st announcement if we dont see BD by the end of summer (next week).


That was not a lie. At the time that statement was made, that was the expectation.

Have you ever flown on a plane? This afternoon I have a 3:45 flight. The airline has told me, ever since I booked the flight, that it leaves at 3:45. If I end up leaving Austin at 4:30, has the airline flat out lied to me? No. Things change.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;14973311*
> Like it said in Smartidiot posts, AMD Employees do not even know when the Bulldozer is going to exactly launch at. So if AMD Employees do not know, I highly doubt JF will know anything about Desktop schedules.


I am not going to call him out as a liar on that, but anyone working on the projects knows the launch dates. I know the desktop dates very clearly, I just don't comment on them for obvious reasons.

It's that type of charged rhetoric that ends up spwaning all of the rumors.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14975349*
> 
> So XOP is almost the same thing as AVX2 from Intel, while FMA4 is basically AVX for AMD?


No.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14975668*
> AVX is AVX for AMD


AVX is implemented the same for AMD and Intel. We were originally doing SSE5, but Intel dropped their plans to support it and we shifted to match them vs. forcing people into compiler choices.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

So it's possible AMD could throw a curve ball and surprise everyone with an announcement of either (A) an earlier launch or (B) another delay. Nobody knows, we can only wait to hear something official from AMD.


----------



## kzone75

Sad thing is that the mods have probably lost interest in this thread..


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Well, what else can be said on the subject? With the help of JF we atlest know that there wouldn't be any real benchmarks and we can't possibly know the launch date (remember "launch date and benchmarks on the launch date" thing







) so that leaves us with nothing else except to wait.

There is no point in this thread for now ...


----------



## mav451

Err did JF not understand that I posted that in defense of him? But then he attacks me for it. Ok.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chew*;4952360*
> There are many bios options that can effect the outcome of benches.
> 
> HPET is 1 for example, it stops the cpu from throttling back in mulithreaded apps.
> 
> Running pi on a cluster, versus a core ( 2 threads ) versus being able to disable a single cluster in a core ( which 99% boards/bios's do not have implemented so resources are not shared ) can all influence the results in single threaded.
> 
> Knowing all this tells you one thing for sure, you can make it look worse or make it look better all depending on your knowledge of the chip and or your intentions.
> 
> As far as PI it's an antiquated bench and has not been AMD's strong point for quite some time.
> 
> Granted some results shown tend to lead to the fact that 1m times are bad but looking at the bigger picture we also know that in many cases you can validate 1000mhz higher in many cases with BD, which would point to the fact that you can run 1m at alot faster speeds than current AMD tech.
> 
> Things that make you go hmm like what kind of times will we see at 8 gig or even comparing BD to deneb/thuban when same cooling is used.


interesting


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14977121*
> there are tons of childish post directed at john on a daily basis ...
> 
> some are even deleted by mods due to their extremely disrespectuf taste


I don't disagree, I just meant that in the quoted post I did not see anything that was attacking John









Maybe this should be one of those threads that you can only post after having X amount of post's under your belt


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14976184*
> I have always been overly aware of launch dates. When I make statements, those are based on two things: the schedule estimates at the time and the public launch statement.
> 
> Public launch statements are the official plan of record and that is all I am allowed to say. Period. If the launch date changes, nobody is allowed to make a statement about the the new date until PR/AR has approved it and usually it is a senior executive that makes the statement because launch dates and shipping dates have implications for wall street.
> 
> Earlier this year, when we believe that the launch date was Q2 for client and Q3 for server, every time I was asked, that is what I said. If you were anal-retentive enough to read all of my posts, you would see there was a point where I stopped answering that question. I knew the launch date had changed, but a new one had not been communicated publicly yet.
> 
> That was not a lie. At the time that statement was made, that was the expectation.
> 
> Have you ever flown on a plane? This afternoon I have a 3:45 flight. The airline has told me, ever since I booked the flight, that it leaves at 3:45. If I end up leaving Austin at 4:30, has the airline flat out lied to me? No. Things change.


I get what you mean,but a flight delay of about an hour or less is no big deal. Intel SB has been out for 8 months,while BD has been delayed since June.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14977503*
> Err did JF not understand that I posted that in defense of him? But then he attacks me for it. Ok.


You took it as an attack? Pehaps you should read it again.
I can understand him being a bit angry or fed up though,he has a lot to deal with.


----------



## blabla125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14975372*
> isnt bulldozer releasing tomorrow? CMON AMD WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH!!!!


ya what happened to releasing on 19th and 22nd??


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14977064*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking but I do not see a direct attack at John....well maybe the one post by Phantom123 but I am not sure if that was a directed at John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: at least in the post to quoted


I didn't see an attack either.

However, people need to get it into their heads that I am passing off the most accurate information at any given time. I realize that we are not shipping according to the original schedules, but that is part of life. Things can change.

I look at it like a football game. there are those that love to watch the game, see the interaction, watch the teams go up and down, and then at the end, there is a final score. Others just want the final score. If my bears are up by 14 in the first half and lose to my wife's saints at the end (or as she puts it "as it was intended"), that does not mean that they were not leading at one point in the game or that the statement "the bears are ahead" is either misleading or a lie. It is the truth at that point in the game.

I have not lied, I have not mislead people. But I have been wrong. That I will admit to because I am human. We have all been wrong.

I have always maintained that a.) people should buy what they want and b.) people should buy when they want.


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;14977769*
> I can understand him being a bit angry or fed up though,he has a lot to deal with.


Agreed, but he chooses, of all posts, to quote mine over the others?

Seems he wanted to make an example of me, even though my post is essentially absolving him of his faults. That's why I didn't understand it. And if you read my post you will see my tone is benevolent, not antagonistic.

Anyway I'll let it slide, JF has seen alot of nonsense thrown his way, he's human after all.


----------



## giver660

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14977503*
> Err did JF not understand that I posted that in defense of him? But then he attacks me for it. Ok.


No, calling you a fat loser would be attacking you. Forgive me, but where does JF attack you? Or is it actually that he "attacked" you and you have some weird, otherworldly definition of the word attack?

You see, to us humans it just seemed that he was explaining the protocol that he is legally obligated to fallow...


----------



## Impunity

page 558 and nothing has changed since page 330-ish... good to know.








move along, move along


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14978491*
> Agreed, but he chooses, of all posts, to quote mine over the others?
> 
> Seems he wanted to make an example of me, even though my post is essentially absolving him of his faults. That's why I didn't understand it. And if you read my post you will see my tone is benevolent, not antagonistic.
> 
> Anyway I'll let it slide, JF has seen alot of nonsense thrown his way, he's human after all.


Why so butt hurt?? I wouldnt take it personal myself! Its OK man, go watch some cartoons, have some milk and cookies then take a nap. By then your post will be washed away in this BD mess of a thread


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14976184*
> ...
> 
> AVX is implemented the same for AMD and Intel. We were originally doing SSE5, but Intel dropped their plans to support it and we shifted to match them vs. forcing people into compiler choices.


IIRC AMD had to write their own because Intel won't license theirs. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
AFA, was it a lie. Well yes it was but an unintentional one. If I say the sun will rise tomorrow and the world stops turning then I lied.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;14977632*
> I don't disagree, I just meant that in the quoted post I did not see anything that was attacking John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Maybe this should be one of those threads that you can only post after having X amount of post's under your belt*


THIS^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14977503*
> Err did JF not understand that I posted that in defense of him? But then he attacks me for it. Ok.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451;14978491*
> Agreed, but he chooses, of all posts, to quote mine over the others?
> 
> Seems he wanted to make an example of me, even though my post is essentially absolving him of his faults. That's why I didn't understand it. And if you read my post you will see my tone is benevolent, not antagonistic.
> 
> Anyway I'll let it slide, JF has seen alot of nonsense thrown his way, he's human after all.


Time to change your tampon,









GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14978687*
> IIRC AMD had to write their own because Intel won't license theirs. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.


That is not what happened. AMD intorduced SSE5 first. Intel had basically agreed to go along with it.

Then they decided not to implement the full SSE5 and were only going to do AVX.

We had the choice of doing SSE5 and forcing people to make some tough choices in how to code to 2 different standards, or follow what intel was doing to keep binary consistency. We chose the latter (putting costomers needs first.)

But we also knew that there was some other stuff that we needed, so we also did FMA4 and XOP. FMA4 lets you do FMA (fused multiply accumulate) in one shot vs. two. XOP is a related set of additional operations.

We figured that the people who wanted FMA4 and XOP were the HPC crowd and they would be compiling their own apps anyway, so have additional commands was not going to be much of an impact.

I have simplified this for purposes of this discussion, it was a lot longer of a discussion, but the net is SSE5 was an AMD proposal, not an intel, we were first to the game on that one.

As for licensing, there is a ton of cross-licensing that happens between the two companies. How do you think that Intel processors can address 64-bit? A lot of what they are doing is based on AMD patents.


----------



## BigCactus

September 26 = launch date. We will see benchmarks soon. Just be patient. If it doesn't come out on the 26th I am done with desktops.


----------



## Benz

I always suspected that Intel has AMD's x64 instruction set. By saying so it only confirms my suspicion.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14978995*
> That is not what happened. AMD intorduced SSE5 first. Intel had basically agreed to go along with it.
> 
> Then they decided not to implement the full SSE5 and were only going to do AVX.
> 
> We had the choice of doing SSE5 and forcing people to make some tough choices in how to code to 2 different standards, or follow what intel was doing to keep binary consistency. We chose the latter (putting costomers needs first.)
> 
> But we also knew that there was some other stuff that we needed, so we also did FMA4 and XOP. FMA4 lets you do FMA (fused multiply accumulate) in one shot vs. two. XOP is a related set of additional operations.
> 
> We figured that the people who wanted FMA4 and XOP were the HPC crowd and they would be compiling their own apps anyway, so have additional commands was not going to be much of an impact.
> 
> I have simplified this for purposes of this discussion, it was a lot longer of a discussion, but the net is SSE5 was an AMD proposal, not an intel, we were first to the game on that one.
> 
> As for licensing, there is a ton of cross-licensing that happens between the two companies. How do you think that Intel processors can address 64-bit? A lot of what they are doing is based on AMD patents.


THX JF, I couldn't remember the particulars.


----------



## blabla125

i will lol if it doesn't release on 26 then you done with desktops







haha im just joking
Quote:


> September 26 = launch date. We will see benchmarks soon. Just be patient. If it doesn't come out on the 26th I am done with desktops.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blabla125;14979289*
> i will lol if it doesn't release on 26 then you done with desktops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha im just joking


No, it is obviously happening tomorrow do to the YouTube video!


----------



## xd_1771

If it's the 26th (though there's absolutely no confirmation as to), that's a day before my birthday


----------



## radaja

bummer,cant submit for the AMD contest.i hope they get it fixed so i can get todays submission in(i hate missing a day).well so other than that,nothing new on the BD front?

XML parsing failed:
Error:
invalid start-tag


----------



## jck

It'll be too late for me to buy.

Going to the attorney this week to file. No big spending from my account allowed til after the hearing in November.

My Zambezi purchase will be after that...probably the black friday sales.

But, I have all the hardware waiting. Just need mobo + CPU, stick in case, re-confirm with MS my OS, and I'll be going.

So, I hope you guys have fun with it when it does come out. If it's a winner, I'll join you before January.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14979141*
> September 26 = launch date. We will see benchmarks soon. Just be patient. If it doesn't come out on the 26th I am done with desktops.


So basically, you are done with Desktops, since September 26 does not fall on Q4.

What are you going to use next?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14979366*
> If it's the 26th (though there's absolutely no confirmation as to), that's a day before my birthday


----------



## blabla125

Quote:


> If it's the 26th (though there's absolutely no confirmation as to), that's a day before my birthday


if it is released 26th hope you have a overclocking fulled Bday...with bulldozer


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;12691379*
> It is taking as long as it takes.
> 
> Last year we said 2011. Then we said Q2 for client, Q3 for server. That continues to be the timeframe.
> 
> People are getting too impatient and thinking that there is some behind the scenes thing going on. The reality is that things continue to run on the same schedules.
> 
> We are following the exact same process as we always do. And actually saying more about the processor than we normally do. *We never release the data you are all demanding prior to launch.* Why should this be any different?


I came across a very interesting article today that suggests the contrary.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1676
Quote:


> AMD appears to be joining in on Intel's game and is *lifting their NDA on Athlon 64 X2 performance today*, instead of waiting until June as they had originally planned. *Note that the timing of today's article doesn't mean that there's any change in the Athlon 64 X2 release or shipping schedule.* The CPUs still won't be available _until Q3 or Q4 of this year_, *but AMD appears to want to get performance numbers out there as soon as possible*; given the impressive performance that we had previewed in our first article, it's not much of a surprise from AMD.


This article along with the preview was written *at least 4 months prior to the release*.

I also found another Athlon X2 preview with benchmarks prior to release:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2135

I'm not saying JF-AMD is lying to us, but AMD has been known to release performance numbers prior to release *in the past*. They did it again this year with Llano as many of us have pointed out. Sure, one can argue that this is a "demo", but this is clearly showing off Llano's performance. Heck, I was so impressed by Llano's performance that I told a couple a buddies to hold off on buying their laptop and wait for Llano to release.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74[/ame]

People like myself are not upset by the delays, we're upset by what we're being told the reasons are for not releasing performance info.

When AMD broke the frequency World Record, they had no problem flaunting that achievement did they? They even went as far as timing it so it was revealed on the same day as IDF.

*Why should this be any different?*

I firmly believe that if AMD had performance numbers to flaunt, those would've been released already, just like they were in the past.


----------



## JF-AMD

Demos are not benchmarks. I have said that several times.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


bummer,cant submit for the AMD contest.i hope they get it fixed so i can get todays submission in(i hate missing a day).well so other than that,nothing new on the BD front?

XML parsing failed: 
Error:
invalid start-tag


I can't either







but only because I live in Quebec, and that contest is not open to Quebec residents lol.


----------



## radaja

i had to run to the store,just checking if i missed anything while i was gone,did BD release,did AMD release any benchmarks,has any new info come out?























Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I can't either







but only because I live in Quebec, and that contest is not open to Quebec residents lol.


thats too bad


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


bummer,cant submit for the AMD contest.i hope they get it fixed so i can get todays submission in(i hate missing a day).well so other than that,nothing new on the BD front?

XML parsing failed: 
Error:
invalid start-tag


Try now


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Demos are not benchmarks. I have said that several times.


Demos are benchmarks. 
The definition of a demo shows 
Capabilities of "X"
The definition of a benchmark defines
Capabilities of "X"

Demos you don't know the parameters of which the benchmark is done, on average
Benchmarks you know the parameters of which the demo was done

Previews, Demos and Benchmarks are all the same thing

They all show and define the capabilities of "X"


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Try now










nope still not working on my end


----------



## soth7676

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I can't either







but only because I live in Quebec, and that contest is not open to Quebec residents lol.


contest?? which contest??


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soth7676*


contest?? which contest??


this one here-enter each day








*Operation Scorpius*


----------



## soth7676

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


this one here-enter each day








*Operation Scorpius*


Thanks...did so now...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soth7676*


Thanks...did so now...










my chance of winning just went down by 1







LOL


----------



## baltar

Hrmm what ever happened to the Shopblt preorder for the fx 8150?

It looks like they took it off, I can't even find it on there by searching for the manuf part numbers FD8150FRGUBOX or the shopblt sku BLA5134.

Sorry if it was noted on some other thread, the search didn't pick it up if it was...

If they did take it off, I wonder if my preorder is still valid?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *baltar*


Hrmm what ever happened to the Shopblt preorder for the fx 8150?

It looks like they took it off, I can't even find it on there by searching for the manuf part numbers FD8150FRGUBOX or the shopblt sku BLA5134.

Sorry if it was noted on some other thread, the search didn't pick it up if it was...

If they did take it off, I wonder if my preorder is still valid?


I just read over at Xtremesystems BLT pulled the listing....Hmmmmm...


----------



## dreameer111

Yay bulldozer tomorrow.... hopefully


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dreameer111*


Yay bulldozer tomorrow.... hopefully










It's already the 19th in Australia.


----------



## Kuchiyose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Demos are benchmarks. 
The definition of a demo shows 
Capabilities of "X"
The definition of a benchmark defines
Capabilities of "X"

Demos you don't know the parameters of which the benchmark is done, on average
Benchmarks you know the parameters of which the demo was done

Previews, Demos and Benchmarks are all the same thing

They all show and define the capabilities of "X"


A demo is not a benchmark.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


What I am refuting is that we _released benchmarks_. I was not at IDF this year. I know we did demos, but I am pretty sure we did not release benchmarks.

In demos you show something, maybe you compare 2 systems, but you control everything.

In a benchmark, you release your (auditable) score and you compare to scores that your competitor releases.

While I know our demos are always legit (we have lawyers that don't like us playing games or creating demos that can be debunked), what is to stop someone from doing a demo where one system is handicapped by a BIOS setting or some other factor. That is the difference between a demo and a benchmark.

Which is why I am critical of all of the "benchmarks" that are floating around the web not from AMD. Even if they a.) had an actual chip and b.) actually ran the benchmark, who can even guarantee that it was set up either properly or fairly?

And I would assume that most either did not pass the a.) or b.) test anyway.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol JF is a marketer, word play is his forte.

I gave up on that awhile ago..

I was going to ask what he considers a Demo of Benchmark applications, but it's honestly not worth anything since he can't say, and we all know the answer.


So, if I gave you two charts today, two systems running the same application. AMD 20% faster than Intel. Would you believe it? Possibly, but you would have a lot of questions about the setup, configuration, driver verisons, etc.

Now, if you knew that intel submitted a score of 100 on a benchmark and I submitted a score of 120, you would believe it hands down because you know that intel optimized their system (and if they didn't they deserve the hit for not optimizing....)

The reality is that in benchmarks, everyone submits and there is a comparison factor that is assumed to be 100% accurate.

But in a demo, one person controls both sides, so there is a higher level of uncertainty.

The best proof of this is that we did a demo that showed us faster than intel and everyone is still asking for benchmarks









Quote:



Originally Posted by *dreameer111*


Yay bulldozer tomorrow.... hopefully










Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.


----------



## Bit_reaper

19th







So can we now have some proper benches plz?


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*

Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.


October at the very earliest latest December 31.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


So, if I gave you two charts today, two systems running the same application. AMD 20% faster than Intel. Would you believe it? Possibly, but you would have a lot of questions about the setup, configuration, driver verisons, etc.

Now, if you knew that intel submitted a score of 100 on a benchmark and I submitted a score of 120, you would believe it hands down because you know that intel optimized their system (and if they didn't they deserve the hit for not optimizing....)

The reality is that in benchmarks, everyone submits and there is a comparison factor that is assumed to be 100% accurate.

But in a demo, one person controls both sides, so there is a higher level of uncertainty.

The best proof of this is that we did a demo that showed us faster than intel and everyone is still asking for benchmarks









Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.


JF the demo in question used two benchmarks that reported results as they went, while excel was displaying real time performance, the last was an HD video playing.

If I posted up a video of myself running 3DMark11 physics test with a FPS counter on the bottom displayed, but didn't show the end result would you have an idea of exactly what kind of performance I was achieving relative to your own rig as you ran it yourself even though a end result wasn't posted?

I'm waiting for official benchmarks same as everyone else, I've decided to not make anymore assumptions until I see the actual *final* product being tested by multiple users/sites.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


JF the demo in question used two benchmarks that report results as they went, while excel was displaying real time performance, the last was an HD video playing.

If I posted up a video of myself running 3DMark11 physics test with a FPS counter on the bottom displayed, but didn't show the end result would you have an idea of exactly what kind of performance I was achieving relative to your own rig as you ran it yourself even though a end result wasn't posted?


Why is this even being argued about? When official benches come out, they come out. JF had repeatedly said this. Any source outside official channels is all hearsay until the release of benches from AMD. I understand this, why can't others?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


The best proof of this is that we did a demo that showed us faster than intel and everyone is still asking for benchmarks








Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.


Are you referring to this demo?
http://translate.google.com/translat...d-fx-processor

I thought you said it was "fishy" and if AMD conducted it it would have been on AMD's official blog page.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Are you referring to this demo?
http://translate.google.com/translat...d-fx-processor

I thought you said it was "fishy" and if AMD conducted it it would have been on AMD's official blog page.


Maybe he meant the world record OC?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Why is this even being argued about? When official benches come out, they come out. JF had repeatedly said this. Any source outside official channels is all hearsay until the release of benches from AMD. I understand this, why can't others?


Because it's a topic of discussion that has been running for quite some time.

I don't see any arguing, I see some wordplay taking place but no arguments... only opinions and discussions.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:



Originally Posted by JF-AMD
Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.


I hope its early Q4 cause im already starting to debate weather or not to drop my BD build and go SB next week. Sorry but patience is not my virtue


----------



## Tweeky

Not to worry when the *official* bench marks come out from AMD they will have been *fabricated* too


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Demos are not benchmarks. I have said that several times.


The main point of my post was to show that AMD HAS released preview benchmarks in the past PRIOR to launch, something you claim AMD NEVER does.

http://www.overclock.net/14979701-post5583.html

I also found another Athlon X2 preview with benchmarks prior to review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2135

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Are you referring to this demo?
http://translate.google.com/translat...d-fx-processor

I thought you said it was "fishy" and if AMD conducted it it would have been on AMD's official blog page.


He was probably referring to the WR OC, they should be very proud to beat Netburst P4 & Celeron's.

Now, why don't they show BD running at say 4.5 GHZ against a 2600K, and running some benchmarks so we can see its clock for clock performance?

Oh right, AMD ALWAYS releases benchmarks at launch.


----------



## Hueristic

W0W, Nov 2009. Been waiting a looong time!

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ml#post7648127


----------



## Seronx

http://www.ibuypower.com/Info/amd-bulldozer.aspx

Soon now...sooon

September 19th...what the did I go into the future and got this somehow?

_*The Guinness World Record Edition PC will be available this fall*_

Question #1: Will it come with LHe?


----------



## StarDestroyer

november


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14984250*
> november


Fall starts September 22nd, ShopBLT was taunting us, I'm gonna go cry now


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14984271*
> Fall starts September 22nd, ShopBLT was taunting us, I'm gonna go cry now


I thought you would've learned your lesson the 1st time.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984298*
> I thought you would've learned your lesson the 1st time.


I'm just stating Fall starts September 22nd and ShopBLT showed pre-orders on September 22nd when they weren't suppose to and they took down their catalogs for the FX unlike the Opterons

I still say it's a placeholder, ShopBLT obviously knew that it was Fall....


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14984203*
> http://www.ibuypower.com/Info/amd-bulldozer.aspx
> 
> Soon now...sooon
> 
> September 19th...what the did I go into the future and got this somehow?
> 
> _*The Guinness World Record Edition PC will be available this fall*_
> 
> Question #1: Will it come with LHe?


That'd be a nice rig, but that giant iBUYPOWER logo on it is just brutal.


----------



## Shahzad7

Even though the AMD fanboy in mean hates to say it, all this waiting is driving my patience nuts. I'm a fairly patient person, but Bulldozer is really stress(-testing) its limits. I think if its not released by Oct.17/2011, I'll just go for an i5-2500k; as I do need a computer soon. I just wish some news regarding the processors would appear.. such as a release date?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14984516*
> Even though the AMD fanboy in mean hates to say it, all this waiting is driving my patience nuts. I'm a fairly patient person, but Bulldozer is really stress(-testing) its limits. I think if its not released by Oct.17/2011, I'll just go for an i5-2500k; as I do need a computer soon. I just wish some news regarding the processors would appear.. such as a release date?


Launch on launch unfortunately.








There have been _some_ rumors though stating October 10th or 11th as a release date, though GRAIN OF SALT.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14984582*
> Launch on launch unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been _some_ rumors though stating October 10th or 11th as a release date, though GRAIN OF SALT.


You know how many *rumored dates* we've been through this past year?

I don't, I lost track.

I don't expect it in October, since they said Q4, that gives them another 90 day window for release.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984674*
> I don't, I lost track.


I do we have been through about 15-20 ish I think

But, I am confident it will come out by Q5 of 2011


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984674*
> You know how many *rumored dates* we've been through this past year?
> 
> I don't, I lost track.
> 
> I don't expect it in October, since they said Q4, that gives them another 90 day window for release.


That's why I said grain of salt.








I know there have been a lot. I remember being ultra disappointed after Computex because I thought the release date for then was confirmed. And then they said 60-90 days...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14984732*
> That's why I said grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know there have been a lot. I remember being ultra disappointed after Computex because I thought the release date for then was confirmed. And then they said 60-90 days...


I know, I remember we all thought it was being "announced" June 7th at E3, client launch event June 14th, availability June 20th'ish.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984674*
> You know how many *rumored dates* we've been through this past year?
> 
> I don't, I lost track.


Let me see....

sometime in january
sometime in february
CeBIT in March
June 1
June 7
June 14
June 22
June 24
sometime in august
August 8
sometime in august
September 6
September 12
September 19
September 26
October 10-ish
October 14(?)
October 31
sometime in october
sometime in november
sometime in 2011

Or never.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14984799*
> Let me see....
> 
> sometime in january
> sometime in february
> CeBIT in March
> June 1
> June 7
> June 14
> June 22
> June 24
> sometime in august
> August 8
> sometime in august
> September 6
> September 12
> September 19
> September 26
> October 10-ish
> October 14(?)
> October 31
> sometime in october
> sometime in november
> sometime in 2011
> 
> Or never.


That reminds me, Seronx was right all along.

He was adamant that AMD said it would be released in "2011", and therefore we haven't been through any delays. ( Though he was going by the 2009 roadmap, but what's the difference? ) It's still being released sometime in 2011 ( hopefully )

Server chips have started shipping, so that's good news at least, and word on the street is that BD is in full production. It'd be nice to know WHEN that full production started since JF said it would be 13-14 weeks for retail ( or something along those lines ).


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984851*
> That reminds me, Seronx was right all along.
> 
> He was adamant that AMD said it would be released in "2011", and therefore we haven't been through any delays. ( Though he was going by the 2009 roadmap, but what's the difference? ) It's still being released sometime in 2011 ( hopefully )
> 
> Server chips have started shipping, so that's good news at least, and word on the street is that BD is in full production.


Perhaps he truly is worthy of the name NostraSeronx.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14984873*
> Perhaps he truly is worthy of the name NostraSeronx.


Perhaps, but I still can't forget all these delays, and the massive amount of rumors and speculation we've been through.









Following this BD release hasn't been exactly a fun experience for all of us this year. Just ask the mods.









*New trivia question*: How many Bulldozer threads have been locked here on OCN?









I'd say 38.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984851*
> Server chips have started shipping, so that's good news at least, and word on the street is that BD is in full production. It'd be nice to know WHEN that full production started since JF said it would be 13-14 weeks for retail ( or something along those lines ).


That's putting AMD (well, this is good for us consumers) in a tight spot to stop with delays on Bulldozer as shareholders are likely to get angry now (especially when they realize the launch window from June 1st was a lie). I hope this means we actually get to see it soon, the overwhelming wait is just becoming tedious.

Also, JF-AMD's continuous analogy about the plane can only be stretched so far. I remember back a few years ago I had a flight scheduled at 9:00, it came at 11:30 (8 hour flight) which caused me to miss another flight and a few other problems causing me to be late for my destination by 2 days (free hotel though!)

The airline told me why everything happened and accommodated me for it, AMD really hasn't. The airline didn't just ignore me at the time of flight and then a little later say "It'll be sometime in the next week", they gave me a pretty good reason as to why it happened (someone had a heart attack on the previous flight of that aircraft causing them to have an emergency landing).

AMD's lack of rational for these delays is what bugs me, not that the delays happen.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14984926*
> That's putting AMD (well, this is good for us consumers) in a tight spot to stop with delays on Bulldozer as shareholders are likely to get angry now (especially when they realize the launch window from June 1st was a lie). I hope this means we actually get to see it soon, the overwhelming wait is just becoming tedious.
> 
> Also, JF-AMD's continuous analogy about the plane can only be stretched so far. I remember back a few years ago I had a flight scheduled at 9:00, it came at 11:30 (8 hour flight) which caused me to miss another flight and a few other problems causing me to be late for my destination by 2 days (free hotel though!)
> 
> The airline told me why everything happened and accommodated me for it, AMD really hasn't. The airline didn't just ignore me at the time of flight and then a little later say "It'll be sometime in the next week", they gave me a pretty good reason as to why it happened (someone had a heart attack on the previous flight of that aircraft causing them to have an emergency landing).
> 
> AMD's lack of rational for these delays is what bugs me, not that the delays happen.


Congrats on your 1st rep.

The whole flight thing though true, is not really valid comparison when you're dealing with hours vs MONTHS and counting in Bulldozer's case. It's the lack of a valid explanation that most are annoyed with.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14984873*
> Perhaps he truly is worthy of the name NostraSeronx.


For that to workout

SpecFP_Rate has to at least double
SpecInt_Rate has to at least double
SpecInt has to at least increase 25%
SpecFP has to at least stay the same any increase is a positive


----------



## Damn_Smooth

The thing I find odd is all of these posts complaining about delays. Nobody is making anybody wait and the last time I checked, Intel had a fine chip that you could purchase right now.

So I pose this question:
If you are sick of delays and waiting, why are you?

It all seems a bit masochistic to me.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14984799*
> Let me see....
> 
> sometime in january
> sometime in february
> CeBIT in March
> June 1
> June 7
> June 14
> June 22
> June 24
> sometime in august
> August 8
> sometime in august
> September 6
> September 12
> September 19 *<--- fingers crossed it's this one ~pale_neon*
> September 26
> October 10-ish
> October 14(?)
> October 31
> sometime in october
> sometime in november
> sometime in 2011
> 
> Or never.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985131*
> So I pose this question:
> If you are sick of delays and waiting, why are you?


I'm waiting because I am either waiting for Bulldozer or I am waiting for "actual" Intel CPUs

AMD FX vs Intel EE for me

Performance(Needs to be high)/Watt(Needs to be low)/Price(Needs to be low)

Forgot to add.... Longevity if both are the same price and same performance which one will last longer(The odds are placing Longevity upon Bulldozer which means I won't have to upgrade my computer till 2013+)


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14985156*
> I'm waiting because I am either waiting for Bulldozer or I am waiting for "actual" Intel CPUs
> 
> AMD FX vs Intel EE for me
> 
> Performance(Needs to be high)/Watt(Needs to be low)/Price(Needs to be low)
> 
> Forgot to add.... Longevity if both are the same price and same performance which one will last longer(The odds are placing Longevity upon Bulldozer mean I won't have to upgrade my computer till 2013)


You were disqualified from the conversation before it started. I never here you complaining about delays.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985306*
> You were disqualified from the conversation before it started. I never here you complaining about delays.


I'm waiting for Vishera then


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985131*
> The thing I find odd is all of these posts complaining about delays. Nobody is making anybody wait and the last time I checked, Intel had a fine chip that you could purchase right now.
> 
> So I pose this question:
> If you are sick of delays and waiting, why are you?
> 
> It all seems a bit masochistic to me.


Because dangit we're all set on Bulldozer. Those who have made it this far are brave men! WHO'S WITH ME? *Does some sort of inspirational Brave Heart speech*


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14985349*
> Because dangit we're all set on Bulldozer. Those who have made it this far are brave men! WHO'S WITH ME? *Does some sort of inspirational Brave Heart speech*


I really don't see you complain about it either though. I don't complain because I'm content with waiting. I just don't see how the negativity of some people is helping anything. It's certainly not going to get the chip here any sooner, and if they are that frustrated, the best way to talk is with their wallets.


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14984926*
> That's putting AMD (well, this is good for us consumers) in a tight spot to stop with delays on Bulldozer as shareholders are likely to get angry now (especially when they realize the launch window from June 1st was a lie). I hope this means we actually get to see it soon, the overwhelming wait is just becoming tedious.
> 
> Also, JF-AMD's continuous analogy about the plane can only be stretched so far. I remember back a few years ago I had a flight scheduled at 9:00, it came at 11:30 (8 hour flight) which caused me to miss another flight and a few other problems causing me to be late for my destination by 2 days (free hotel though!)
> 
> The airline told me why everything happened and accommodated me for it, AMD really hasn't. The airline didn't just ignore me at the time of flight and then a little later say "It'll be sometime in the next week", they gave me a pretty good reason as to why it happened (someone had a heart attack on the previous flight of that aircraft causing them to have an emergency landing).
> 
> AMD's lack of rational for these delays is what bugs me, not that the delays happen.


EXACTLY. Delays happens, but the difference is we know the reason.

AMD is like a plane scheduled for takeoff at 3pm, then at 2:59 it announces: takeoff in afternoon. Then at 5:59, while still in the seat, it accounces: takeoff in evening.

"excuse me captain, what's causing the delay"

"can't tell you that, takeoff at takeoff"

"can you atleast give a more accurate expected delay"

"that will be announced at takeoff. Again, takeoff at takeoff"

"but I'll be late for my meeting"

"we have a business to run, you're less than 5% of our customer base"

"but SB Airlines always tells us about expected delays"

"well, we NEVER announce delays before takeoff"


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14985349*
> Because dangit we're all set on Bulldozer. Those *who have made it this far are brave men*! WHO'S WITH ME? *Does some sort of inspirational Brave Heart speech*


no doubt about that


----------



## Seronx

MSI Europe leaked a week or two
Timestamp: September 18th
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MSI_E*
> Launch date staat al een week of 2 vast.


----------



## -X3-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14985478*
> EXACTLY. Delays happens, but the difference is we know the reason.
> 
> AMD is like a plane scheduled for takeoff at 3pm, then at 2:59 it announces: takeoff in afternoon. Then at 5:59, while still in the seat, it accounces: takeoff in evening.
> 
> "excuse me captain, what's causing the delay"
> 
> "can't tell you that, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "can you atleast give a more accurate expected delay"
> 
> "that will be announced at takeoff. Again, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "but I'll be late for my meeting"
> 
> "we have a business to run, you're less than 5% of our customer base"
> 
> "but SB Airlines always tells us about expected delays"
> 
> "well, we NEVER announce delays before takeoff"


^Lol'd


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985425*
> I really don't see you complain about it either though. I don't complain because I'm content with waiting. I just don't see how the negativity of some people is helping anything. It's certainly not going to get the chip here any sooner, and if they are that frustrated, the best way to talk is with their wallets.


I don't really complain, I just grumble. And I want to wait for Bulldozer so that there can be comparisons with Sandy Bridge. If BD ends up a flop, then I'll know that SB will be a good choice, instead of being anxious about whether or not I spent my money wisely.

Also, frosty, you are not a new member why is that still under your name get down from there and get that out of your sphincter.


----------



## Fr0sty

can't really make a funny title on my own







so i chose the next best thing


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14985713*
> I don't really complain, I just grumble. And I want to wait for Bulldozer so that there can be comparisons with Sandy Bridge. If BD ends up a flop, then I'll know that SB will be a good choice, instead of being anxious about whether or not I spent my money wisely.
> 
> Also, frosty, you are not a new member why is that still under your name get down from there and get that out of your sphincter.


What would make you consider BD a flop?


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14985478*
> EXACTLY. Delays happens, but the difference is we know the reason.
> 
> AMD is like a plane scheduled for takeoff at 3pm, then at 2:59 it announces: takeoff in afternoon. Then at 5:59, while still in the seat, it accounces: takeoff in evening.
> 
> "excuse me captain, what's causing the delay"
> 
> "can't tell you that, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "can you atleast give a more accurate expected delay"
> 
> "that will be announced at takeoff. Again, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "but I'll be late for my meeting"
> 
> "we have a business to run, you're less than 5% of our customer base"
> 
> "but SB Airlines always tells us about expected delays"
> 
> "well, we NEVER announce delays before takeoff"


lmao









Edit: lol "takeoff at takeoff", I think that was the best part. I sure hope this wait is worth it and if it was I hope I can afford one when BD becomes available.


----------



## GaMEChld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985786*
> What would make you consider BD a flop?


If it turns out to be analogous to a Phenom II X8


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985786*
> What would make you consider BD a flop?


It acts like an 8 core and in benchmarks that Intel biased it shows a massive decrease in performance

Actually what is interesting Bulldozer(OBR) has the highest MP Ratio over all AMD CPUs

1100T stops at 5.8~
i7 2600K stops at 4.8~
980X/990X stops at 7.3~
FX-8150(OBR ES) 6.7~

The only way this is possible via convincing benchmarks

is Photoshop and emulating FX via 980/990X but that would increase scores then

Blame Windows OS and Motherboards like always









AMD's Solution
100% -> 95% -> 95% -> 95% -> 65% -> 65% -> 65% -> 65%

Intel's Solution
100% -> 95% -> 95% -> 95% -> 18% -> 18% -> 18% -> 18%

It works though with MP Ratio in Cinebench R11.5


----------



## Madmanden

Q2. Then Q3. Then Q4. Every leaked bench points to underwhelming performance. Color me a pessimist, but I've lost whatever faith I had.

I just hope I'm wrong and that AMD has used the delays wisely.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;14985607*
> MSI Europe leaked a week or two
> Timestamp: September 18th


But it's Sept. 19th?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985786*
> What would make you consider BD a flop?


BD can't even be considered a flop when it hasn't been released yet and there is no solid testing or legit benchmarks.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmanden;14985949*
> Q2. Then Q3. Then Q4. Every leaked bench points to underwhelming performance. Color me a pessimist, but I've lost whatever faith I had.
> 
> I just hope I'm wrong and that AMD has used the delays wisely.


That could be the reason for the delays, maybe AMD saw something and had an "oh *****, what are we going to do to fix this" situation on their hands. I doubt it though, but it's possible.


----------



## OverShocked

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14985478*
> .
> 
> "excuse me captain, what's causing the delay"
> 
> "can't tell you that, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "can you atleast give a more accurate expected delay"
> 
> "that will be announced at takeoff. Again, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "but I'll be late for my meeting"
> 
> "we have a business to run, you're less than 5% of our customer base"
> 
> "but SB Airlines always tells us about expected delays"
> 
> "well, we NEVER announce delays before takeoff"


fixed:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;14985478*
> .
> 
> "excuse me captain, what's causing the delay"
> 
> "can't tell you that, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "could you tell me why BD Airlines is better even though were getting these delays"
> 
> "no specifications on BD airlines will be told until takeoff"
> 
> "can you atleast give a more accurate expected delay"
> 
> "that will be announced at takeoff. Again, takeoff at takeoff"
> 
> "but I'll be late for my meeting"
> 
> "we have a business to run, you're less than 5% of our customer base"
> 
> "but SB Airlines always tells us about expected delays"
> 
> "well, we NEVER announce delays before takeoff"


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985131*
> The thing I find odd is all of these posts complaining about delays. Nobody is making anybody wait and the last time I checked, Intel had a fine chip that you could purchase right now.
> 
> So I pose this question:
> If you are sick of delays and waiting, why are you?
> 
> It all seems a bit masochistic to me.


I know for a fact you're not talking about me.









Not all of us are ok with the _______ we are being fed along the way to this release. Yet, we still find a way to resist temptation and go SB. When I started waiting for BD earlier this year, SB was just released, and Q2 was about 3 months away. So I figured, hey, might as well wait to see what AMD is bringing to the table before jumping on SB.

April came and went.

Many DELAYED rumors came along in May, and we thought we'd have BD in the last month of Q2 in June.

AMD denied there were any delays, and that they were right on schedule.

Then BAM we are hit with 60-90 day delay, after much rumored speculation.

All year we've been told different deadlines and just when you think it's about to be released we are hit with ANOTHER 90 day delay, AFTER the 60-90 day deadline had passed. Delays are the #1 topic surrounding Bulldozer how can you expect for it to not be discussed?

I already showed that things that we've been told are not entirely true. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I can't stand being lied to. You'll have to see my post a couple pages back to see what I'm referring to.

I can't sing AMD praises right now, but I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping they come through. That's gotta count for something. I'm stuck in this waiting loop, and have come this far, *what's another couple months?* ( which is what I've been saying since January )

Perhaps it's because I still remember all the AMD rigs I've built, and remember the days when Intel wasn't even an option. Good times, but they seem so long ago.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14985713*
> I don't really complain, I just grumble. And I want to wait for Bulldozer so that there can be comparisons with Sandy Bridge. If BD ends up a flop, then I'll know that SB will be a good choice, instead of being anxious about whether or not I spent my money wisely.
> 
> .


Its literally driving me nuts. Im patient.. but a year worth of patience is wearing thin.. Im pretty sure the enthusiasts that havent went and bought sandy bridge by now are the most patient CPU enthusiasts on the planet. Most of the people I knew of that were waiting for this processor have long since bought sandybridge.

Maybe this is why we are only 5% of their customer base LOL Im seriously thinking of ordering a 2600k tomorrow im so tired of waiting. Everything else is ordered except the MB and CPU


----------



## swindle

I'm just considering now waiting for Ivy and jumping on that boat. At least I know that will come, and it will be fast.

This AMD delay and lack of info has really killed the faith I had. I've been using AMD for some time to. Sad really.


----------



## MinitroN

Don't confuse AMD desktop processors with their entire repertoire of products. They will be making the next GPU for Nintendo and their Fusion line is excellent all-around. With the future of mobile computing shifting towards smaller devices their success in the APU market is more important than their desktop CPU for their growth. Apple isn't the largest company in the world because of their Macintosh products.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MinitroN;14986456*
> D Apple isn't the largest company in the world because of their Macintosh products.


Apple is the largest company in the world because of the ipod and iphone. A market segment that neither AMD nor intel is involved in.

Secondly. Macbook pros (which ive been seeing more and more people buy) use intel processors. That should tell you something.


----------



## doglivehk

I saw a Chinese news about some unconfirmed stats of bulldozer. it said it really sucks, 8 cores still have stupid stats comparing with sandy bridge. We will see what is the real result.


----------



## doglivehk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MinitroN;14986456*
> Don't confuse AMD desktop processors with their entire repertoire of products. They will be making the next GPU for Nintendo and their Fusion line is excellent all-around. With the future of mobile computing shifting towards smaller devices their success in the APU market is more important than their desktop CPU for their growth. Apple isn't the largest company in the world because of their Macintosh products.


Nintendo Wii graphic is like stone age.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14986663*
> Nintendo Wii graphic is like stone age.


He said next gen nintendo system which is due out soon. Not the Wii.


----------



## doglivehk

I expect bulldozer is just something like the current AMD 6 cores kind with like 20% performance increases, then the performance is nothing comparing sandy bridge, and like a bike VS a car comparing with Ivy Bridge.


----------



## doglivehk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14986682*
> He said next gen nintendo system which is due out soon. Not the Wii.


What do you expect when you look at Wii now.


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14986663*
> Nintendo Wii graphic is like stone age.


I think the Wii U is going to use a DX 10.1 GPU so it should be at about the same level as the 360 & PS3 if not a step above them.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14986695*
> What do you expect when you look at Wii now.


i expect more revenue for amd if rumors of them building the chip to power that consoles are true .. otherwise it doesnt matter to me


----------



## swindle

I think that when the Bulldozer blog for the brand new AMD tech for enthusiasts and power hungry nerds reverts into talking about the Wii, an image is due...


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14986695*
> What do you expect when you look at Wii now.


Nintendo intentionally made the Wii underpowered in order to make it cheap. It was designed to appeal to the casual gamer. Seeing the success the 360 has had and some what the ps3 as well. They now want to aggressively target the more "hardcore" market. After all these companies make most of their money from actual game sales, not hardware sales. Besides are you suggesting AMD can't make a capable graphics card?  that is absolutely absurd.


----------



## doglivehk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14986787*
> Nintendo intentionally made the Wii underpowered in order to make it cheap. It was designed to appeal to the casual gamer. Seeing the success the 360 has had and some what the ps3 as well. They now want to aggressively target the more "hardcore" market. After all these companies make most of their money from actual game sales, not hardware sales. Besides are you suggesting AMD can't make a capable graphics card?  that is absolutely absurd.


I just doubt the ability of AMD coming CPUs.


----------



## Pavix

Am I the only one who thinks that bulldozer is the Duke Nukem forever of the CPU world?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pavix;14987045*
> Am I the only one who thinks that bulldozer is the Duke Nukem forever of the CPU world?


you mean it will take years to release (it has) and it will be vastly disappointing?


----------



## Pavix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14987054*
> you mean it will take years to release (it has) and it will be vastly disappointing?


Pretty much exactly like that


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14986971*
> I just doubt the ability of AMD coming CPUs.


but you praise the abilities of intel's comming cpu's ???

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pavix;14987045*
> Am I the only one who thinks that bulldozer is the Duke Nukem forever of the CPU world?


allready been mentioned


----------



## konspiracy

well today is the day so lets see if we get some legit benchmarks...


----------



## totallynotshooped

Hopefully when BD comes out nearly every overclocker will be running 5+ghz stable, air or water, Intel or AMD. But performance still shows, and hopefully AMD will come out on top (for now


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14986265*
> I know for a fact you're not talking about me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all of us are ok with the _______ we are being fed along the way to this release. Yet, we still find a way to resist temptation and go SB. When I started waiting for BD earlier this year, SB was just released, and Q2 was about 3 months away. So I figured, hey, might as well wait to see what AMD is bringing to the table before jumping on SB.
> 
> April came and went.
> 
> Many DELAYED rumors came along in May, and we thought we'd have BD in the last month of Q2 in June.
> 
> AMD denied there were any delays, and that they were right on schedule.
> 
> Then BAM we are hit with 60-90 day delay, after much rumored speculation.
> 
> All year we've been told different deadlines and just when you think it's about to be released we are hit with ANOTHER 90 day delay, AFTER the 60-90 day deadline had passed. Delays are the #1 topic surrounding Bulldozer how can you expect for it to not be discussed?
> 
> I already showed that things that we've been told are not entirely true. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I can't stand being lied to. You'll have to see my post a couple pages back to see what I'm referring to.
> 
> I can't sing AMD praises right now, but I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping they come through. That's gotta count for something. I'm stuck in this waiting loop, and have come this far, *what's another couple months?* ( which is what I've been saying since January )
> 
> Perhaps it's because I still remember all the AMD rigs I've built, and remember the days when Intel wasn't even an option. Good times, but they seem so long ago.


I understand that, but I was talking more of the people that constantly complain and don't sound like they think Bulldozer will have a shot at being decent. I don't know why someone would wait for something they expect to disappoint them.

I'm really not trying to flame or offend anyone, I'm just curious about the psychology behind it.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14987693*
> I understand that, but I was talking more of the people that constantly complain and don't sound like they think Bulldozer will have a shot at being decent. I don't know why someone would wait for something they expect to disappoint them.
> 
> I'm really not trying to flame or offend anyone, I'm just curious about the psychology behind it.


I'll give you my answer as I may be someone you're referring to constantly whining and carrying on.

Its real simple for me... Ive hated intel ever since I busted a motherboard trying to get the heatsink pins out. AMD uses screws (thankyou AMD you've gotten something right) And Intel uses these push pins that are literally a pain in the rear to get out. I've broken a motherboard trying to get them out. I have no idea what Intel was thinking with that design but it was and still IS a bad one. The other thing is I like having actual physical cores. I always thought it was shoddy to call a "virtual core" a core at all. AMD has the first TRUE 8 core processor coming out and I had a 6 core processor when it came out. I always asked my intel friends how many real cores does that i7 (or i5) have? oh 4? I have more. Its bragging rights.

Also AMD has tended to be more price friendly. Thats really not an issue for me but I like to at least spend my money wisely. Im so tempted to newegg a MB and processor today as I know it would be here by friday. I just feel I've waited so long and for what? If BD doesnt blow me out of my chair at stock speed I'll be so upset I may explode.


----------



## Fr0sty

but why complain over and over like your life depends on it is what we dont get


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14987765*
> but why complain over and over like your life depends on it is what we dont get


Its the little things in life that make all the difference for some people


----------



## doglivehk

Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/656/656603.shtml



















The conclusion is "not satisfied"


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14987765*
> but why complain over and over like your life depends on it is what we dont get


Not to bring up any blood here but people's lives do depend on it. The folding projects and other things depend on these high grade multicore CPUs to get calculations done that could save lives.

Like Syrillian's for instance. (connecting to people here)

Or my parents. (connected to myself)

I give a crap. Sorry if that bothers people but it is important to me to have this thing as soon as possible. Time does matter. And some of the things (especially in the folding project) we have helped do would have taken decades without us.


----------



## ninox999

so whats going on here? its september 19 here in melbourne, at like 10 mins to 11 at night. was this the release date for bulldozer? sorry bout the stupid questions but I WANT TO SEE SOME MORE BENCHMARKS


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *konspiracy;14987159*
> well today is the day so lets see if we get some legit benchmarks...


I highly doubt it, nothing BD today
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14987799*
> Not to bring up any blood here but people's lives do depend on it. The folding projects and other things depend on these high grade multicore CPUs to get calculations done that could save lives.
> 
> Like Syrillian's for instance. (connecting to people here)
> 
> Or my parents. (connected to myself)
> 
> I give a crap. Sorry if that bothers people but it is important to me to have this thing as soon as possible. Time does matter. And some of the things (especially in the folding project) we have helped do would have taken decades without us.


big pharma just want dupes to do CPU work for them so that they can keep the info to themselves and charge a fortune for any off spins they deem profitable to use

the 4 letter word in the highly 'profits over people' eugenics medical industry is "CURE"


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;14987799*
> Not to bring up any blood here but people's lives do depend on it. *The folding projects* and other things *depend* on these high grade multicore CPUs to get calculations done that could save lives.
> 
> Like Syrillian's for instance. (connecting to people here)
> 
> Or my parents. (connected to myself)
> 
> I give a crap. Sorry if that bothers people but it is important to me to have this thing as soon as possible. Time does matter. And some of the things (especially in the folding project) we have helped do would have taken decades without us.


best arguments ive seen so far

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14987830*
> so whats going on here? its september 19 here in melbourne, at like 10 mins to 11 at night. was this the release date for bulldozer? sorry bout the stupid questions but I WANT TO SEE SOME MORE BENCHMARKS


where did you get that september 19 date again???

ahh yes the *ember 19* in the scorpius video running around made by amd


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14987830*
> so whats going on here? its september 19 here in melbourne, at like 10 mins to 11 at night. was this the release date for bulldozer? sorry bout the stupid questions but I WANT TO SEE SOME MORE BENCHMARKS


No, today is not the release date.


----------



## radaja

just read over at XS's about the "ember 19th" thing on the comic from where the sept 19th rumor started,and it was actually from an old phenom slide from 2007.i guess the comic maker just used whatever he could find to make it look cool?

*SOURCE*


















so to all the hopeful sept 19th'ers,sorry to bring the bad news


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14987792*
> Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:
> 
> The conclusion is "not satisfied"


----------



## pcclock

To be "Bulldozer Ready", all I need is an AMD3+ board right?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;14988153*
> To be "Bulldozer Ready", all I need is an *AM3+* board right?


yep .. and the rest of the build is to your liking


----------



## ninox999

so STILL no-one knows the official release date? this is getting more and more stupid each time a website makes up a release data. Either AMD tell us the time period the release date is in or all the websites to keep their mouth shut with the fake dates. Intel always stays true to their word. what the in the world is going on AMD? Aren't you usually better than this? Sorry, i am starting to get really annoyed because i was told here that it was sep 19th but it isnt.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Such vitriol. The release date is known by some, but they are under NDA. It could change, but at this point it's doubtful. So for what it's worth, there is a set release date. Unfortunatey the release date is under NDA, and the NDA doesn't expire until the release date. Rest assured, however, that at this point there _is_ a release date. Wish I could do better than that; sorry for necessarily having to be vague.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;14988153*
> To be "Bulldozer Ready", all I need is an AMD3+ board right?


Yep, and a lot of patience. You may be Bulldozer ready, but Bulldozer is not ready for you!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I can tell you one thing. Wall Street isn't happy with AMD Today, there stock is steadily dropping


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14988276*
> so STILL no-one knows the official release date? this is starting to be a load of BS. Intel always stays true to their word. what the hell is going on amd?


there is no public official release date

at the most AMD might one day say 'big news next week' and just launch it, or announce another time frame like '60-90 days from now' and actually keep it this time

My prediction is early-mid Oct for server chips, then FX about 30 days later


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14988309*
> Rest assured, however, that at this point there _is_ a release date.


Unless ... there _isn't_ a release date.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14988189*
> yep .. and the rest of the build is to your liking


Quote:


> Yep, and a lot of patience. You may be Bulldozer ready, but Bulldozer is not ready for you!


Alright thanks.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;14988465*
> Unless ... there _isn't_ a release date.


There is. Certain reviewers know it already, at least a dozen of them if not more at this point. We will be working toward a date given to us by AMD. None of us can say what the date is, but it does exist, I promise.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14988555*
> There is. Certain reviewers know it already, at least a dozen of them if not more at this point. We will be working toward a date given to us by AMD. None of us can say what the date is, but it does exist, I promise.


I think the problem we have is the simple fact no release date until actual release. This policy Amd has chosen for bulldozer is a little annoying.

I mean just think you are anticipating this thing and every time you read anything you get that kind of statement it can become frustrating.









I personally will have money together for an upgrade at the end of October. I just hope bulldozer is ready by then becuase money burns a hole in my pocket


----------



## blabla125

my prediction is that we have waited to long:baaasmile


----------



## Canis-X

JF.....Are we there yet?


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14988555*
> There is. Certain reviewers know it already, at least a dozen of them if not more at this point. We will be working toward a date given to us by AMD. None of us can say what the date is, but it does exist, I promise.


is it very soon or far soon







?


----------



## hokiealumnus

Haha...sorry, I'm not getting myself in trouble by playing that game. I can just say a) that it's not today and b) there is a set date. Aside from that, I'm not touching speculation with a ten foot pole lest I say something by accident.


----------



## Morbid_666

Took me 1 week to read all this. Bury me...


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14989272*
> Haha...sorry, I'm not getting myself in trouble by playing that game. I can just say a) that it's not today and b) there is a set date. Aside from that, I'm not touching speculation with a ten foot pole lest I say something by accident.


What if you told us the days it isn't, and didn't tell us the day it is? Is that wrong?


----------



## Canis-X

^ I lol'd at that.


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14989302*
> What if you told us the days it isn't, and didn't tell us the day it is? Is that wrong?


Don't let him play with your emotions


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morbid_666;14989289*
> Took me 1 week to read all this. Bury me...


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;14989302*
> What if you told us the days it isn't, and didn't tell us the day it is? Is that wrong?


Haha...it _isn't_ released January 1, 2011 through September 19, 2011. That takes out 262 of the possible 365 days. There is only 28% of the year left. 29 days in there are weekend days, so assuming they wouldn't release on a weekend, that leaves only 74 days in 2011. Given a guess of any remaining day, you have a 1.4% chance of being right! Assuming, of course, the date is within 2011.

It will release on release date. That's the best I can do. Now I'm going to run away.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;14989323*
> Don't let him play with your emotions


I am very much like a fruit when it comes to computer parts, I do not emotionalize.

Fruit don't talk. Fruit just listens... and waits.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14989417*
> Haha...it _isn't_ released January 1, 2011 through September 19, 2011. That takes out 262 of the possible 365 days. There is only 28% of the year left. 29 days in there are weekend days, so assuming they wouldn't release on a weekend, that leaves only 74 days in 2011. Given a guess of any remaining day, you have a 1.4% chance of being right! Assuming, of course, the date is within 2011.
> 
> It will release on release date. That's the best I can do. Now I'm going to run away.


Well played, but I still don't see the harm in telling us the days the launch isn't. There are probably only a few of us here that would be willing to go through the entire post of the days and pick out the day that wasn't listed. Hell I wouldn't









Ain't today, guess that's good enough for me.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morbid_666;14989289*
> Took me 1 week to read all this. Bury me...


I've been following this thread from the start and I have to say that it is getting a bit ridiculous.

The world record was a good thing since it blew some life into this dead horse...though I have to say it feels like BD is close.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninox999;14988276*
> so STILL no-one knows the official release date? this is starting to be a load of BS. Intel always stays true to their word. what the hell is going on amd?


what's up with the ivy bridge delay then?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14989272*
> Haha... I'm not touching speculation with a ten foot pole


so speculation is that much ugly?? :O


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;14989417*
> Haha...it _isn't_ released January 1, 2011 through September 19, 2011. That takes out 262 of the possible 365 days. There is only 28% of the year left. 29 days in there are weekend days, so assuming they wouldn't release on a weekend, that leaves only 74 days in 2011. Given a guess of any remaining day, you have a 1.4% chance of being right! Assuming, of course, the date is within 2011.
> 
> It will release on release date. That's the best I can do. Now I'm going to run away.


Will it come before or after Thanksgiving?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;14989649*
> what's up with the ivy bridge delay then?


Well let's see, IB is 22nm, the die shrink of SB, which is dominating anything AMD has to offer.

Intel told us that it was pushed back from Q4 2011 to Q1 2012, and they had the decency to tell us this about 6 months prior to its release. Unlike AMD they are not stringing people along with false expectations, and deadlines. We know up front when to expect it.

Speaking of IB, how many generations is AMD behind of Intel?









Considering BD was originally due in 2009, are you sure you're making proper comparisons?


----------



## doglivehk

Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/656/656603.shtml



















The conclusion is "not satisfied"


----------



## RAMP4NT

The cinebench even says "engineering sample." And how old of a stepping it is, we don't know. In conclusion, BS benchies are BS. In fact, let's not trust anything coming out of random asian sites that say they have the chip. It'll be a good policy.

Isn't Zambezi being made at Global Foundries? Wouldn't the Germans maybe have the first representative samples? IDK where China would get them from.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14989788*
> The cinebench even says "engineering sample." And how old of a stepping it is, we don't know. In conclusion, BS benchies are BS. In fact, let's not trust anything coming out of random asian sites that say they have the chip. It'll be a good policy.
> 
> Isn't Zambezi being made at Global Foundries? Wouldn't the Germans maybe have the first representative samples? IDK where China would get them from.


CPU-Z says its model 1 stepping 0, meaning it's a comparatively ancient B0 stepping......
If I remember correctly there were a few photos of some B0 stepping chips, and the heatsink markings indicated they were encapsulated in the 11th week of 2011, or mid march. Judging by the photos of trays of FX chips from the overclocking competition, the B2 chips used were encapsulated in late July. The results on that chinese site are basically useless.


----------



## doglivehk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;14989788*
> The cinebench even says "engineering sample." And how old of a stepping it is, we don't know. In conclusion, BS benchies are BS. In fact, let's not trust anything coming out of random asian sites that say they have the chip. It'll be a good policy.
> 
> Isn't Zambezi being made at Global Foundries? Wouldn't the Germans maybe have the first representative samples? IDK where China would get them from.


The company now has a research and development (R&D) center in Shanghai, the company's largest R&D center outside the US, and a leading TMP (test, mark and pack) facility in Suzhou, Jiangsu province.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90778/90860/7164310.html


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doglivehk;14989887*
> The company now has a research and development (R&D) center in Shanghai, the company's largest R&D center outside the US, and a leading TMP (test, mark and pack) facility in Suzhou, Jiangsu province.
> 
> http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90778/90860/7164310.html


IIRC, silicon wafers for AMD CPUs are diffused in Germany at Global Foundries, but the actual assembly of the CPU dice into their packaging occurs elsewhere. I think it had something to do with avoiding high EU taxation rates. I'll have to try and find the article that I'm thinking of later.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14984851*
> It'd be nice to know WHEN that full production started since JF said it would be 13-14 weeks for retail ( or something along those lines ).


No, I never said that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;14989995*
> IIRC, silicon wafers for AMD CPUs are diffused in Germany at Global Foundries, but the actual assembly of the CPU dice into their packaging occurs elsewhere. I think it had something to do with avoiding high EU taxation rates. I'll have to try and find the article that I'm thinking of later.


Wafers in dresden
Packaging in Penang
Test, marking shipping, etc. in Singapore


----------



## Evil Penguin

Has anyone noticed BLT removed the BD listings off their site?
I guess they got in trouble or something.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14990211*
> No, I never said that.
> 
> Wafers in dresden
> Packaging in Penang
> Test, marking shipping, etc. in Singapore


What do you guys have in frankfurt then?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14990211*
> No, I never said that.


Oh ok, what was it that you said then?

I remember you mentioning some sort of timeline of how long it takes to go from production to retail...


----------



## JF-AMD

I was talking about the time from wafer start to production, which has zero impact on introduction date.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Oh ok, what was it that you said then?

I remember you mentioning some sort of timeline of how long it takes to go from production to retail...


he said this in his comments regarding someones comment about already being
in production for a couple of months(he's talking server here)

Quote:



They have not been in production for a couple of months. We have gone into production very recently. Production, start to finish, on a wafer, is more like 12-13 weeks.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I had really high hopes that AMD would give us something today seeing as how last week was full of stuff about BD. No news today makes me sad







Wish I could hibernate until BD is launched.


----------



## proximo

Wall Street isn't happy with any stock today. Fill in the blank, and it's down.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I can tell you one thing. Wall Street isn't happy with AMD Today, there stock is steadily dropping


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doglivehk*


Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/656/656603.shtml



















The conclusion is "not satisfied"


27 secs in superpi. Yeah right. I LOL'd at that one.

Archaic B0 stepping ES sample using unoptimized code\\bios and most likely including bugs.

Why are they even wasting their time?

Great, SB can install Windows 3.1 faster than Bulldozer can. Who cares. Nobody uses X87 code any longer!!


----------



## newnub123

news news news news ??? 13-10-2011 maybe really good as some guy say some month ago !







now nordichhw has new infos readherehttp://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/44179-amd-fx-series-in-mass-production-launch-slated-for-october.html **** enjoy new s news news news or not`?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I was talking about the time from wafer start to production, which has zero impact on introduction date.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


he said this in his comments regarding someones comment about already being
in production for a couple of months(he's talking server here)


Ahhh, ok, thanks!

All I remembered was 12-13 weeks, and something to do with production.


----------



## radaja

heres some very interesting facts about bulldozer history
*Bulldozer history*

Quote:



It appears that the word bulldozer came from the habit of stronger bulls pushing their lesser rivals backwards in not-so-serious contests of strength outside of the mating season. These contests take on a more serious note during the mating season.



enjoy


----------



## Tweeky

Today is the 19th what happens today?


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *newnub123*


news news news news ??? 13-10-2011 maybe really good as some guy say some month ago !







now nordichhw has new infos readherehttp://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...r-october.html **** enjoy new s news news news or not`?










I can do ~11.201s for 32M wprime

more bad benches

lastr line 
Quote:



. AMD still says that it expects the FX series to become the fastest retail processor.


meaning GHz speed, nothing else


----------



## Benz

Omg, did you even read this before you posted your very useful post?

Quote:



The odd, or to say really bad, benchmarks couild be because of several thing, but most likely the processor has an older stepping, or the BIOS did not have the latest AGESA code from AMD.


----------



## StarDestroyer

yes so another pointless benchmark that may not be real anyways


----------



## Benz

So why do you even bother posting this kinda information if they're fake anyway?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Today is the 19th what happens today?


Nevermind let me talk about something else

http://www.overclock.net/14987946-post5682.html

Here is your answer


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Intel told us that it was pushed back from Q4 2011 to Q1 2012, and they had the decency to tell us this about 6 months prior to its release. Unlike AMD they are not stringing people along with false expectations, and deadlines. We know up front when to expect it.


Not necessarily. Anand stated ivy bridge is expected to launch in april or may, which would be Q2.

You also don't know what's been going on internally at AMD, or possibly Global Foundries. You can't assume that Intel showed "decency" because they knew 6 months out. AMD very likely didn't have anywhere near that notice when it became clear that bulldozer would be delayed.


----------



## catharsis

This has to be the most delayed processor in the history of processors.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


Not necessarily. Anand stated ivy bridge is expected to launch in april or may, which would be Q2.

You also don't know what's been going on internally at AMD, or possibly Global Foundries. You can't assume that Intel showed "decency" because they knew 6 months out. AMD very likely didn't have anywhere near that notice when it became clear that bulldozer would be delayed.


My point is simple.

With Intel, we know ahead of time when a delay happens, they don't beat around the bush.

AMD waits until last minute to reveal that a delay was happening, eventhough all the "rumors" turned out to be factual. Remember leading up to June, how there was a lot of talk that Motherboard manufacturers were not happy with BD performance?

I would buy what you're saying, if AMD didn't deny there were ANY delays, 5 days prior to announcing the delay. 
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

On June 1st, they didn't even acknowledge the delay, but rather, spoke for a couple minutes stating that Bulldozer would be ready in 60 - 90 days. It makes me wonder if they were buying more time before announcing another delay. 60 - 90 days sounds better then 4-6 months.

The entire 90 days went by, and on September 7th, they finally gave a new 90 day window. Once again, keeping us in the dark throughout the entire timeline.

This is what's most frustrating about this whole situation, is the lack of acknowledgement and information on the matter.

To this day, we have no idea what the cause of the delays have been, was it yield issues? Performance? Both?


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


My point is simple.

With Intel, we know ahead of time when a delay happens, they don't beat around the bush.

AMD waits until last minute to reveal that a delay was happening, eventhough all the "rumors" turned out to be factual. Remember leading up to June, how there was a lot of talk that Motherboard manufacturers were not happy with BD performance?

I would buy what you're saying, if AMD didn't deny there were ANY delays, 5 days prior to announcing the delay. 
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

On June 1st, they didn't even acknowledge the delay, but rather, spoke for a couple minutes stating that Bulldozer would be ready in 60 - 90 days. It makes me wonder if they were buying more time before announcing another delay. 60 - 90 days sounds better then 4-6 months.

The entire 90 days went by, and on September 7th, they finally gave a new 90 day window. Once again, keeping us in the dark throughout the entire timeline.

This is what's most frustrating about this whole situation, is the lack of acknowledgement and information on the matter.

To this day, we have no idea what the cause of the delays have been, was it yield issues? Performance? Both?


If it's about yields, AMD is going to get a rude awakening as shareholders are beginning to lose interest (however if they release sooner and it does go out of stock, shareholders are more incline to assume that bulldozer is a success and will make them happy). If it's about performance well, the i5-2500k isn't looking all that bad right now.


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doglivehk*


Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/656/656603.shtml



















The conclusion is "not satisfied"


its not that bad considering the 2600k is at 3.4ghz and the amd chip is at 2.8ghz. there's a 20% difference in clock speeds and the amd chip falls behind around 20%. Plus its an old stepping which further reduces the performance and validity.


----------



## Buckaroo

Only running 1 core in the CPU-Z shot?


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


Only running 1 core in the CPU-Z shot?


Hmmmm! Maybe fake???


----------



## cayennemist

AMD 
How about giving us some Official Release Dates?
That way when a day like today (Sep, 19) happens we aren't all bummed out because our hopes were false led buy some stupid AMD cartoon and Chinese web sites.

I would be happy with a delay If we had A ACTUAL OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE!
So sick of having to play the rumor games. 
MR. Read Take the reigns and do this right please...


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


So why do you even bother posting this kinda information if they're fake anyway?


Because it draws hits to their website.

Edit: Never mind, I thought you said they, not you.


----------



## kchris

I encourage everyone not to buy Bulldozer after all this yanking around that AMD has done. I feel so bad for people who prebuilt their Bulldozer builds with some crappy AMD processor to hold the socket until they get their Bulldozer. This company does not deserve any loyalty.


----------



## Obakemono

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and see how this plays out, OK? Posts that only contain complaints and such will get this thread locked, again. Email AMD with your gripes and complaints, because it is not useful here, even if "venting".


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


I encourage everyone not to buy Bulldozer after all this yanking around that AMD has done. I feel so bad for people who prebuilt their Bulldozer builds with some crappy AMD processor to hold the socket until they get their Bulldozer. This company does not deserve any loyalty.












It keeps getting better and better


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ninox999*


so STILL no-one knows the official release date? this is starting to be a load of BS. Intel always stays true to their word. what the hell is going on amd?


Intel have delayed/cancelled products too, Larrabee anyone?

I'm sick of hearing the "Intel and nVidia aren't as bad with this!" because in terms of GPUs, nVidia had a worse/turning out to be similar delay than this (6 months between HD5k and GTX 4*0, that's like being a year late.) and Intel has in the past too.

When you make an *entirely new chip*, delays happen. Get over it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Considering BD was originally due in 2009, are you sure you're making proper comparisons?


Stop pushing this FUD, it was announced in 2009 for *a 2011 release*, I was here in 2009 and there never was any "Bulldozer delayed 2 years!" threads going around, just an "AMD announces Bulldozer architecture" one.

It took Intel longer for their first entirely new architecture since the Pentium Pro (The Pentium 4, which took 5 years to be finished) so AMD has been doing quite good, and personally? I'd rather have a 2 month later release date with a bug-free launch than a release date, then bugs not long after like the Phenom I or P67 launches.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


Not necessarily. Anand stated ivy bridge is expected to launch in april or may, which would be Q2.

You also don't know what's been going on internally at AMD, or possibly Global Foundries. You can't assume that Intel showed "decency" because they knew 6 months out. AMD very likely didn't have anywhere near that notice when it became clear that bulldozer would be delayed.


Exactly, they were on the final stretch at that point...It's not something you can really say "I'll be done by this time" then because what happens if people fall sick and have days off? Unexpected bugs found? You see where I'm going?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


My point is simple.

With Intel, we know ahead of time when a delay happens, they don't beat around the bush.

AMD waits until last minute to reveal that a delay was happening, eventhough all the "rumors" turned out to be factual. Remember leading up to June, how there was a lot of talk that Motherboard manufacturers were not happy with BD performance?


I'm sorry, but actually look at less than the most recent examples too.

Intel have denied delays up to the last second too, and AMD has announced delays well before they hit too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*


Hmmmm! Maybe BS???










You imply there's doubt.

For the record on BD delays: Only one has actually been proven so far, when BD was *announced* for a release date in 2011 (Still stands, so far), then we got the Q2 and 60 to 90 days ones, which are delays, the rest (eg. September 19th, yesterday for us Aussies) are *rumours*. They've had two delays so far, three if its after 2011 when BD launches (Which going by the current flood, as opposed to leaks, of information whether real or fake and the fact production is in full swing and reviewers have chips, I doubt) and going from the original 60-90 days delay...Well, I think BD isn't too far off, maybe something popped up they had to/wanted to work through and it took a few weeks longer than expected, I wouldn't be surprised if Interlagos is launched by or during October.


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Who is not frustrated? Everyone is anxious. Delays do happen. However, with that being said AMD beds to hit it big with this one. Intel needs some competition and right now I dont think they feel pressured over the last few years. And why would they? At this point AMD needs to have not only a winner, but the ability to keep in step with Intel. Otherwise, AMD will always be distant 2nd.


----------



## conzilla

Iam tired of hearing about the poor people who upgraded their boards waiting for BD. Who upgrades with no benchmarks? Or a release date. The best release date we have had is 2011 thats not a release date.hell Q3 or Q4 is not a release date.


----------



## cayennemist

For me things would so much better If AMD just was truthful with us, and flat out told us "hey Bulldozed hays been delayed yes, but here is a release date that you can expect it to launch" 
So many people are gambling on the 990fx boards, without even knowing when BD comes out. I feel like AMD at-least owes it to us(people that bought 990 boards, and fans) to give some info. The least they could do is a Launch date.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

AMD only needs to stay alive,PERIOD.
AMD's only concern is staying alive, as long as AMD performance increases over last chips
i will continue with AMD products.
I have always had troubles with intel products.....mouse pointers disapearing, graphics being totally crap. software issues as far i as i can see.
hyper threading was not created by INTEL nor amd and intel has taken a lot of AMD's tech and used it in there chips. INTEL would not be where they are if it were not for AMD pushing them along as a competitor.
a lot of you people need to start being realistic and quit listening to all the hype and wait for reality to make it's check.


----------



## Canis-X

Unfortunately, the wants of a few (us) do not outweigh their business needs, so lets all stop being selfish and let AMD do what it needs to do. We are most likely all better off not knowing what is going on vs us being in the know and getting upset with the goings-ons.

I know it sucks but, we'll get there when we get there and not a instant sooner.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *conzilla*


Iam tired of hearing about the poor people who upgraded their boards waiting for BD.


I agree. For those that did by a 990fx board at least now they can run SLI if they want to with an AMD board


----------



## kzone75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Unfortunately, the wants of a few (us) do not outweigh their business needs, so lets all stop being selfish and let AMD do what it needs to do. We are most likely all better off not knowing what is going on vs us being in the know and getting upset with the goings-ons.

I know it sucks but, we'll get there when we get there and not a instant sooner.










Agreed. On that note, I will stay away from this thread until BD is released. Hope you won't miss me too much.


----------



## Brutuz

AMDs only problem was announcing the Q2 and 60-90 days thing, they should have just kept with 2011 and done a preview of early silicon running like Nehalems first preview.


----------



## Tweeky

How many more days until the next delay?
It's not the number of months it will be delayed it the number of years


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


My point is simple.

With Intel, we know ahead of time when a delay happens, they don't beat around the bush.

AMD waits until last minute to reveal that a delay was happening, eventhough all the "rumors" turned out to be factual. Remember leading up to June, how there was a lot of talk that Motherboard manufacturers were not happy with BD performance?

I would buy what you're saying, if AMD didn't deny there were ANY delays, 5 days prior to announcing the delay. 
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...lay2c-but.aspx

On June 1st, they didn't even acknowledge the delay, but rather, spoke for a couple minutes stating that Bulldozer would be ready in 60 - 90 days. It makes me wonder if they were buying more time before announcing another delay. 60 - 90 days sounds better then 4-6 months.

The entire 90 days went by, and on September 7th, they finally gave a new 90 day window. Once again, keeping us in the dark throughout the entire timeline.

This is what's most frustrating about this whole situation, is the lack of acknowledgement and information on the matter.

To this day, we have no idea what the cause of the delays have been, was it yield issues? Performance? Both?


Exactly what AMD is/was doing, *buying more time*.

I know JF said AMD employees dont know when BD will be released. Maybe true, you know why and only reason why that could be true, because they dont know when the damn chip will be fixed or better put.......... performance satisfactory launch ready.

It sucks we have to get all our info from rumors regarding a so called reputable company!! Most rumors became a reality. Benchmark struggles have to be true too. I think most should abonden this threaed, come back next year sometime when the new revisions are released. AMD has yanked your chain too long!! WE got PUNKED by AMD one too many times.

*A*lways *M*iss *D*eadlines

*A*lways *M*islead *D*a-people

^ Can you think of anymore


----------



## GaMEChld

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Death Saved*


I think the Wii U is going to use a DX 10.1 GPU so it should be at about the same level as the 360 & PS3 if not a step above them.


From what I heard, the Wii U will have graphic power far in excess of what either MS or Sony has in their current platforms. Xbox360 is based on Radeon X1900, whereas the Wii U will be based on something like Radeon HD 4700. Should be a huge jump.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Exactly what AMD is/was doing, *buying more time*.

I know JF said AMD employees dont know when BD will be released. Maybe true, you know why and only reason why that could be true, because they dont know when the damn chip will be fixed or better put.......... performance satisfactory 










When exactly did I say we don't know when it will be released?


----------



## baller01

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Exactly what AMD is/was doing, *buying more time*.

I know JF said AMD employees dont know when BD will be released. Maybe true, you know why and only reason why that could be true, because they dont know when the damn chip will be fixed or better put.......... performance satisfactory launch ready.

It sucks we have to get all our info from rumors regarding a so called reputable company!! Most rumors became a reality. Benchmark struggles have to be true too. I think most should abonden this threaed, come back next year sometime when the new revisions are released. AMD has yanked your chain too long!! WE got PUNKED by AMD one too many times.

*A*lways *M*iss *D*eadlines

*A*lways *M*islead *D*a-people

^ Can you think of anymore










To be honest, im heading out to Compusa today to pick my i7. From my opinion, AMD is probably working like slaves trying to get this CPU tuned right. They know that if this processor is not the biggest thing since sliced bread peoples trust for the company will take a major hit and will take greater amounts of effort in the future to redeem itself. Based off of all of the delay amd has been making I have a very strong felling that it will take several revisions of this processor to make there dream a reality.

This reminds me of when AMD also claimed Barcelona was 40% faster than any other x86 out there, including Kentsfield. AMD was also talking about how their native quadcore design would make core-to-core communications highly efficient. But when it came down to it, benchmarks showed little to no difference between a 'native' quadcore, and a two-socket system with two dualcores.
Designs don't always work as well in practice as they were intended.

Aside from that, the lack of a Bulldozer-aware scheduler in Windows 7 may also have an effect on this. While AMD claims that this invalidates the *False* benchmarks, I would argue against that: there *is* no such scheduler available at this point. You have to work with what you have. Same goes for Bulldozer-optimized software: none is available. If you buy a Bulldozer today, this is the performance you're likely going to get. (http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=en)

It is up to AMD to make Microsoft release an updated scheduler for their CPUs, and to convince software vendors to release Bulldozer-optimized updates for their products.

"AMD prices CPUs relative to Intel's pricing, so the 8 core Zambesi should perform somewhere on par with the i5 2500 as they are priced similarly."

But the CPUs are not released yet, prices could still change.

"AMD wouldn't even release a product that performed this poorly against its OWN offerings, they would just delay again (what is another quarter compared to 3 years??)."

The CPUs aren't released yet&#8230; they could still delay them (that is, to the consumer market. They started shipping server/workstation chips, probably because they are bound by contracts. They ran into similar trouble with OEMs when Barcelona was delayed.. they decided to ship the TBL-bugged Barcelonas to OEMs anyway).

So with that being said, im just hoping AMD runs into some Extraterrestrials who can lend them a helping hand.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

So what week do you guys think BD will release in October? Just curious because I want to plan ahead.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Exactly what AMD is/was doing, *buying more time*.

I know JF said AMD employees dont know when BD will be released. Maybe true, you know why and only reason why that could be true, because they dont know when the damn chip will be fixed or better put.......... performance satisfactory launch ready.


*Actually what JF-AMD said was....*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have always been overly aware of launch dates. When I make statements, those are based on two things: the schedule estimates at the time and the public launch statement.

Public launch statements are the official plan of record and that is all I am allowed to say. Period. If the launch date changes, nobody is allowed to make a statement about the the new date until PR/AR has approved it and usually it is a senior executive that makes the statement because launch dates and shipping dates have implications for wall street.

Earlier this year, when we believe that the launch date was Q2 for client and Q3 for server, every time I was asked, that is what I said. If you were anal-retentive enough to read all of my posts, you would see there was a point where I stopped answering that question. I knew the launch date had changed, but a new one had not been communicated publicly yet.


----------



## xd_1771

^ Results from Chiphell have been found to be neither reliable nor accurate nor representative. Plus, it is a B0 stepping.


----------



## proximo

You don't know that. Microsoft has probably had an ES BD in house for some time. They could have already silently shipped an update with BD support for Windows 7 and none of us would be the wiser. You can't assume *anything* from leaked benchmark performance numbers since, as JF-AMD has said over and over, none of them could have been run on the production chips we will receive from Newegg, etc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *baller01*


Aside from that, the lack of a Bulldozer-aware scheduler in Windows 7 may also have an effect on this. While AMD claims that this invalidates the *False* benchmarks, I would argue against that: there *is* no such scheduler available at this point.


----------



## Hueristic

Can't take this any longer. Unsubbed.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;14992494*
> I encourage everyone not to buy Bulldozer after all this yanking around that AMD has done. I feel so bad for people who prebuilt their Bulldozer builds with some crappy AMD processor to hold the socket until they get their Bulldozer. This company does not deserve any loyalty.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;14992500*
> Everyone needs to take a chill pill and see how this plays out, OK? Posts that only contain complaints and such will get this thread locked, again. Email AMD with your gripes and complaints, because it is not useful here, even if "venting".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoddimusPrime;14992668*
> Who is not frustrated? Everyone is anxious. Delays do happen. However, with that being said AMD beds to hit it big with this one. Intel needs some competition and right now I dont think they feel pressured over the last few years. And why would they? At this point AMD needs to have not only a winner, but the ability to keep in step with Intel. Otherwise, AMD will always be distant 2nd.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *conzilla;14992773*
> Iam tired of hearing about the poor people who upgraded their boards waiting for BD. Who upgrades with no benchmarks? Or a release date. The best release date we have had is 2011 thats not a release date.hell Q3 or Q4 is not a release date.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14993234*
> When exactly did I say we don't know when it will be released?


I say we make weapons and armor out of old computer tech we all probably have lying around

And we go storm AMD and find out whats going on with BD, clearly no one at AMD knew what was going on over the 60-90 days of summer

STORM


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic;14993762*
> Can't take this any longer. Unsubbed.


What does subbing to a thread do anyways?

I always just click "first unread post".


----------



## Usario

I just took the time to read around 10 pages of this thread.

I wish I hadn't.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baller01;14993325*
> To be honest, im heading out to Compusa today to pick my i7.


Ask me how much of a fool I feel like right now - I had a 2500K that i picked up for $150.00 - returned it and got a 990FX board to wait on BD.

So far, at least from the speculation I have read, BD is going to be lucky to outperform an X6 - and we still have a potential three more months until release, as release is Q4 2011


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;14994821*
> Ask me how much of a fool I feel like right now - I had a 2500K that i picked up for $150.00 - returned it and got a 990FX board to wait on BD.
> 
> So far, at least from the speculation I have read, BD is going to be lucky to outperform an X6 - and we still have a potential three more months until release, as release is Q4 2011


Sorry but you'd be silly to think bd won't out perform a x6. Seriously...

I know I've said this and bailed out. But I will be getting sandy in october if nothing is released. But when its this close out. I'd feel like a fool getting an i5 only to find out a month later I could have bought a better processor for the money. It's worth the wait to me.


----------



## StraightSixZ

If BD dont come out this year Im getting .... a .... PS3:1coolsmil


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14994845*
> Sorry but you'd be stupid to think bd won't out perform a x6. Seriously...
> 
> I know I've said this and bailed out. But I will be getting sandy in october if nothing is released. But when its this close out. I'd feel like a fool getting an i5 only to find out a month later I could have bought a better processor for the money. It's worth the wait to me.


I'm hoping that you are correct. My comment about the X6 is based on what I have read here and at Annands site. I personally don't know - just trying to make sense of all the speculation - which seems overwhelmingly negative.

Uninformed might be a better term than 'stupid'


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;14995387*
> I'm hoping that you are correct. My comment about the X6 is based on what I have read here and at Annands site. I personally don't know - just trying to make sense of all the speculation - which seems overwhelmingly negative.
> 
> Uninformed might be a better term than 'stupid'


I agree, sorry "stupid" was way too harsh.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;14995387*
> I'm hoping that you are correct. My comment about the X6 is based on what I have read here and at Annands site. I personally don't know - just trying to make sense of all the speculation - which seems overwhelmingly negative.
> 
> Uninformed might be a better term than 'stupid'


It makes no sense to try and make sense of speculation. That's why it's called speculation.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14992551*
> Stop pushing this FUD, it was announced in 2009 for *a 2011 release*, I was here in 2009 and there never was any "Bulldozer delayed 2 years!" threads going around, just an "AMD announces Bulldozer architecture" one.


What FUD am I pushing?

Perhaps YOU should get your facts straight, being here in 2009 doesn't mean anything. Any time I post, I have facts to back up my statements, and if I don't, I ask for info.

*Bulldozer was first announced way back in 2007*, and was expected to be out in 2009 on the 45nm process.
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/graphics-cards/amd-plots-16-core-super-cpu-for-2009-146488

*Article date*: June 30, 2007.
Quote:


> *AMD plots 16-core super-CPU for 2009*
> 
> *"Bulldozer" to be "highest performing processor core" ever*
> 
> AMD is preparing an all-new PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Due out in the first half of 2009, the new architecture is codenamed Bulldozer.


Quote:


> *Bulldozer is the name, crushing Intel is the game*
> But what about Bulldozer? The big news is that it will form the basis of AMD's first massively multi-core PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Bulldozer will also be fully compatible with AMD's so-called M-SPACE modular CPU design.
> 
> Along with traditional PC processors, therefore, expect to see AMD Fusion CPUs powered by Bulldozer cores but also offering a range of specialised processing units. Think graphics processing cores and high-definition video decoding engines and you'll get an idea of the sort of additional functionality Bulldozer-based Fusion processors will deliver.


Quote:


> *How fast is she, mister?*
> 
> It all sounds pretty impressive on paper. But how fast will this 16-core chip be in practice? *Well, according to AMD, Bulldozer is designed to be nothing less than "the highest performing single and multi-threaded compute core in history".*
> 
> If AMD is to be believed, Bulldozer will improve upon every metric of CPU performance. From performance per watt to outright multi-threaded performance and old school single-threaded oomph, *it's promised Bulldozer will be the new king.*


By 2008, they were still saying that it would be sampling in late 2009:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080422104006_AMD_s_Next_Gen_Micro_Architecture_in_Development_Bulldozer_Samples_Due_in_2009_AMD.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-to-Release-Bulldozer-in-2009-83957.shtml

*Then in 2009 it got delayed to 2011...*

AMD delays Bulldozer to 2011
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=136149

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Bulldozer-Orochi,7201.html

If you need more info, just Google "AMD Bulldozer 2009", and read things carefully.

At 2010's Financial Analyst Day JF-AMD revealed that they had granularity down to the quarter, and it would be out in Q2. I think you know the rest of the story.


----------



## yukon

This is what I have found...

http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/

For the enthusiast

http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-fx-8150p-shatters-guinness-world-records-with-8-4ghz-overclock-48598/


----------



## BigCactus

September 26 is the launch date. Stop playin.









Edit: I am so confident that September 26 is the launch date...if Bulldozer doesn't release by September 26 I will sell my desktop and never own another desktop again. I love desktops but I am so confident BD will release on September 26 that it's all gravy.


----------



## BigCactus

Oh and I asked JF-AMD if he could state for the record that the launch date wasn't September 26...no response.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14995960*
> September 26 is the launch date. Stop playin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I am so confident that September 26 is the launch date...if Bulldozer doesn't release by September 26 I will sell my desktop and never own another desktop again. I love desktops but I am so confident BD will release on September 26 that it's all gravy.


That's a bold statement. You might as well kiss that Desktop good bye.

September does not fall under Q4.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14995475*
> What FUD am I pushing?
> 
> Perhaps YOU should get your facts straight, being here in 2009 doesn't mean anything. Any time I post, I have facts to back up my statements, and if I don't, I ask for info.
> 
> *Bulldozer was first announced way back in 2007*, and was expected to be out in 2009 on the 45nm process.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/graphics-cards/amd-plots-16-core-super-cpu-for-2009-146488
> 
> By 2008, they were still saying that it would be sampling in late 2009:
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080422104006_AMD_s_Next_Gen_Micro_Architecture_in_Development_Bulldozer_Samples_Due_in_2009_AMD.html
> 
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-to-Release-Bulldozer-in-2009-83957.shtml
> 
> *Then in 2009 it got delayed to 2011...*
> 
> AMD delays Bulldozer to 2011
> http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=136149
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Bulldozer-Orochi,7201.html
> 
> If you need more info, just Google "AMD Bulldozer 2009", and read things carefully.
> 
> At 2010's Financial Analyst Day JF-AMD revealed that they had granularity down to the quarter, and it would be out in Q2. I think you know the rest of the story.


They seem to think what you are saying isnt right. I know it is as Ive been waiting YEARS for this processor. I bought this 1090t to hold me over.


----------



## BigCactus

Sandy Bridge-E is Q4.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14996003*
> Oh and I asked JF-AMD if he could state for the record that the launch date wasn't September 26...no response.


If only all the things JF hadn't responded to had turned out to be true







AMD has a strict we do not comment on anything policy


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14996191*
> That's a bold statement. You might as well kiss that Desktop good bye.
> 
> September does not fall under Q4.


Precisely, more than likely it will be early q4 sometime in october.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14996227*
> Sandy Bridge-E is Q4.


Sandy Bridge-E is q1 2011.


----------



## raisethe3

You mean 2012?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14996431*
> Sandy Bridge-E is q1 2011.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14995475*
> What FUD am I pushing?
> 
> Perhaps YOU should get your facts straight, being here in 2009 doesn't mean anything. Any time I post, I have facts to back up my statements, and if I don't, I ask for info.
> 
> *Bulldozer was first announced way back in 2007*, and was expected to be out in 2009 on the 45nm process.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/graphics-cards/amd-plots-16-core-super-cpu-for-2009-146488
> 
> *Article date*: June 30, 2007.
> 
> By 2008, they were still saying that it would be sampling in late 2009:
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080422104006_AMD_s_Next_Gen_Micro_Architecture_in_Development_Bulldozer_Samples_Due_in_2009_AMD.html
> 
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-to-Release-Bulldozer-in-2009-83957.shtml
> 
> *Then in 2009 it got delayed to 2011...*
> 
> AMD delays Bulldozer to 2011
> http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=136149
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Bulldozer-Orochi,7201.html
> 
> If you need more info, just Google "AMD Bulldozer 2009", and read things carefully.
> 
> At 2010's Financial Analyst Day JF-AMD revealed that they had granularity down to the quarter, and it would be out in Q2. I think you know the rest of the story.


I apologize, I misread a news story from 2009, they were actually talking about Llano but didn't make it very clear.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14995960*
> September 26 is the launch date. Stop playin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I am so confident that September 26 is the launch date...if Bulldozer doesn't release by September 26 I will sell my desktop and never own another desktop again. I love desktops but I am so confident BD will release on September 26 that it's all gravy.


I got first dibs on your stuff....







.....JK


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;14996602*
> You mean 2012?


Shouldn't be, maybe he meant SB was Q1 M1 D9 2011?

I was going to sell my board and upgrade a PCIe 3.0 board for Ivy, but for some reason I couldn't do it with Bulldozer still lingering in my mind.

So I bought a M4 ssd instead









Come with it AMD!


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;14996602*
> You mean 2012?


yup 2012


----------



## Shahzad7

All these delays though for AMD, aren't a big deal (I just realized). Those that prefer Intel (fanboys) aren't going to buy Bulldozer anyway, so that doesn't affect AMD either way (although if Bulldozer is amazing I'm sure the fanboys will lose some pride).

However, for the non-intel fanboy; bulldozers delays (and rumors of a "soon" launch), are actually preventing people from buying a new computer.

For example, I really want to buy an i5-2500k build, but with bulldozer "just around the corner", I can't bring myself to do it because of that possibility that bulldozer will be better and Intel would probably do a price drop on the 2500k/2600k anyway for competitive purposes. I'm sure a lot of other people are like this as well.

Although us consumers aren't happy, AMD is in a position of much greater power over us, assuming that Bulldozer actually performs up to the hype it's been given.

Also, which of these three motherboards would be best for Bulldozer (the supposed FX-8150P Processor)

a) ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

b) ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

c) ASUS M5A88-V EVO AM3+ AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;14997198*
> yup 2012


All reports I've seen has been for Nov 15


----------



## raisethe3

Out of that list, Sabertooth. The Crosshair V is nice (if you can afford it). Gigabyte UD7 and UD7 is another option for you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14997260*
> All these delays though for AMD, aren't a big deal (I just realized). Those that prefer Intel (fanboys) aren't going to buy Bulldozer anyway, so that doesn't affect AMD either way (although if Bulldozer is amazing I'm sure the fanboys will lose some pride).
> 
> However, for the non-intel fanboy; bulldozers delays (and rumors of a "soon" launch), are actually preventing people from buying a new computer.
> 
> For example, I really want to buy an i5-2500k build, but with bulldozer "just around the corner", I can't bring myself to do it because of that possibility that bulldozer will be better and Intel would probably do a price drop on the 2500k/2600k anyway for competitive purposes. I'm sure a lot of other people are like this as well.
> 
> Although us consumers aren't happy, AMD is in a position of much greater power over us, assuming that Bulldozer actually performs up to the hype it's been given.
> 
> Also, which of these three motherboards would be best for Bulldozer (the supposed FX-8150P Processor)
> 
> a) ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> b) ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> c) ASUS M5A88-V EVO AM3+ AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;14997261*
> All reports I've seen has been for Nov 15


http://www.techpowerup.com/148282/Sandy-Bridge-E-Delayed-to-January-2012-Sources.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/151759/November-15-Launch-Date-for-Sandy-Bridge-E.html

All rumors, but last I heard it was 2012. I guess the new rumor is Nov. We'll see though.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14997260*
> All these delays though for AMD, aren't a big deal (I just realized). Those that prefer Intel (fanboys) aren't going to buy Bulldozer anyway, so that doesn't affect AMD either way (although if Bulldozer is amazing I'm sure the fanboys will lose some pride).
> 
> However, for the non-intel fanboy; bulldozers delays (and rumors of a "soon" launch), are actually preventing people from buying a new computer.
> 
> For example, I really want to buy an i5-2500k build, but with bulldozer "just around the corner", I can't bring myself to do it because of that possibility that bulldozer will be better and Intel would probably do a price drop on the 2500k/2600k anyway for competitive purposes. I'm sure a lot of other people are like this as well.
> 
> Although us consumers aren't happy, AMD is in a position of much greater power over us, assuming that Bulldozer actually performs up to the hype it's been given.
> 
> Also, which of these three motherboards would be best for Bulldozer (the supposed FX-8150P Processor)
> 
> a) ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> b) ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> c) ASUS M5A88-V EVO AM3+ AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard


b) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131736


----------



## StraightSixZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;14997260*
> All these delays though for AMD, aren't a big deal (I just realized). Those that prefer Intel (fanboys) aren't going to buy Bulldozer anyway, so that doesn't affect AMD either way (although if Bulldozer is amazing I'm sure the fanboys will lose some pride).
> 
> However, for the non-intel fanboy; bulldozers delays (and rumors of a "soon" launch), are actually preventing people from buying a new computer.
> 
> For example, I really want to buy an i5-2500k build, but with bulldozer "just around the corner", I can't bring myself to do it because of that possibility that bulldozer will be better and Intel would probably do a price drop on the 2500k/2600k anyway for competitive purposes. I'm sure a lot of other people are like this as well.
> 
> Although us consumers aren't happy, AMD is in a position of much greater power over us, assuming that Bulldozer actually performs up to the hype it's been given.
> 
> Also, which of these three motherboards would be best for Bulldozer (the supposed FX-8150P Processor)
> 
> a) ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> b) ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
> 
> c) ASUS M5A88-V EVO AM3+ AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131767

890FX should work too..

1 GPU support... HD Radeon 7970


----------



## LostKauz

so i guess since most of us have seen the FX comic video where the date was half printed on the pc to the left that since today is sept*ember* 19th and FX isnt here.. that means that FX will be here December 19th then? any other theories?

\/\/\/ --- 00:15 sec

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRYvfhk7xcs&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


----------



## swindle

Who cares anymore.

It will be here when it is. It will perform as it does. People will be happy, people will be unhappy.

Legit info or bust.


----------



## Gen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LostKauz;14997463*
> so i guess since most of us have seen the FX comic video where the date was half printed on the pc to the left that since today is sept*ember* 19th and FX isnt here.. that means that FX will be here December 19th then? any other theories?
> 
> \/\/\/ --- 00:15 sec
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRYvfhk7xcs&feature=player_embedded


Or November...


----------



## baller01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen;14997550*
> Or November...


Or NEVER!


----------



## Madmanden

Nevermind...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;14996640*
> I apologize, I misread a news story from 2009, they were actually talking about Llano but didn't make it very clear.


No probs.


----------



## Kauke

*A*lways
*M*ore
*D*elays


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StraightSixZ;14995206*
> If BD dont come out this year Im getting .... a .... PS3:1coolsmil


^ lol, I might as well!


----------



## Megacharge

Well I hope it releases in October and not November or December because I'll be pretty pissed. Getting tired of this waiting game, and I've probably been one of the most patient guys through all of this.


----------



## Chuckclc

So this is another Tuesday and no Bulldozer i assume? Why should i wait? Why not a 2500K now? There has been nothing from AMD to suggest its worth the wait. AAAAHHHHHHHH the agony!!! If someone hits me up with a good price for my AMD CHV I may cave.


----------



## StepanPepan

New results from OBR, this time FX is comparable with 2600K (and 1100T also):


----------



## proximo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LostKauz;14997463*
> so i guess since most of us have seen the FX comic video where the date was half printed on the pc to the left that since today is sept*ember* 19th and FX isnt here.. that means that FX will be here December 19th then? any other theories?


You really should keep up with this thread. From a few pages back:

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-569.html#post14987946


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14998940*
> New results from OBR, this time FX is comparable with 2600K (and 1100T also):


Sorry but what is this WPrime and such other benchmarks? I wanna see cpu stuff not memory benches! F Wprime, F Super Pi, lets see some real stuff!!!!


----------



## StepanPepan

wPrime is a CPU test. I have no idea what is its value for "real life performance with normal aplications", but at least it is some concrete number and not just silence...


----------



## Chuckclc

Whatever, I say us guys that have been holding on for all these months need to pull together and get our 2500K setups in the works, but it means nothing to AMD because the average cpu purchaser will bite on the 8 core jibber jabber and that will give AMD what they need to be competitive. No way this BD chip has what it takes. I have been waiting for 6 months to be owned.


----------



## blabla125

no ways i dont beleive that!!!comparing 2600k with 1100t and fx8150 so close, where it that from?jf do you think thats real?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14998708*
> So this is another Tuesday and no Bulldozer i assume? Why should i wait? Why not a 2500K now? There has been nothing from AMD to suggest its worth the wait. AAAAHHHHHHHH the agony!!! If someone hits me up with a good price for my AMD CHV I may cave.


do us a favor buy sandy bridge and quit whinning

otherwise wait for bulldozer like the rest of us

/rant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;14998940*
> New results from OBR, this time FX is comparable with 2600K (and 1100T also):


leave the obr stuff out of this thread please

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14998974*
> Sorry but what is this WPrime and such other benchmarks? I wanna see cpu stuff not memory benches! F Wprime, F Super Pi, lets see some real stuff!!!!


wprime isnt a memory benchmark ...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baller01;14993325*
> This reminds me of when AMD also claimed Barcelona was 40% faster than any other x86 out there, including Kentsfield.
> 
> Aside from that, the lack of a Bulldozer-aware scheduler in Windows 7 may also have an effect on this.
> 
> While AMD claims that this invalidates the *False* benchmarks, I would argue against that: there *is* no such scheduler available at this point.


1. The 40% claim was a server claim, not a client claim, and it was true. There were several places (memory througput and 4P especially) that were 40% or more. the enthusiast community jumped on the claim and morphed it into a kentsfield comparison but the claim was made against server products because it was the general manager of the server business that made it.

2. Your statement about a "lack of bulldozer aware scheduler in win 7" is not true.

3. The false benchmarks have no bearing on scheduler, most are probably done in excel and photoshop be people who do not even have processors in their hands.


----------



## blabla125

jf is bd more server or client based?

1st edit sorry i meant like are we going to see more performance increase in client or server if you cannot say i understand


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blabla125;14999101*
> no ways i dont beleive that!!!comparing 2600k with 1100t and fx8150 so close, where it that from?jf do you think thats real?


It's from OBR so I would not put any faith in that.

Edit: Just remember, don't believe any Benchmarks you see before launch


----------



## Cyclonic

Getting really anoyed with the no news! I bought all my gear so i was ready by end of august for bulldozer, well i even was patience enough to the 19th.

But now i got a 990fx board here with 2x 6950, but im using a sempron 140





















because i dont want to waste money on a phenon II and i got this sempron for free.

It was firstly for my gamepc, but i also do rendering, and i thought ah well that 8 core can be kinda good, wish i bought the I7









Ill wait till end of September, else everything goes back and ill jump on the I7 2600k.


----------



## WhitePrQjser

Okay... Does anybody know, or at least guess, when FX-8150 will be up for purchase?

I know we've all been waiting a long time, but I'm definitely going crazy soon...


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhitePrQjser;14999354*
> Okay... Does anybody know, or at least guess, when FX-8150 will be up for purchase?
> 
> I know we've all been waiting a long time, but I'm definitely going crazy soon...


@least you got an i5 2500k to wait with and not a sempron 140


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;14998502*
> Well I hope it releases in October and not November or December because I'll be pretty pissed. Getting tired of this waiting game, and I've probably been one of the most patient guys through all of this.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;14998708*
> So this is another Tuesday and no Bulldozer i assume? Why should i wait? Why not a 2500K now? There has been nothing from AMD to suggest its worth the wait. AAAAHHHHHHHH the agony!!! If someone hits me up with a good price for my AMD CHV I may cave.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;14999333*
> Getting really anoyed with the no news! I bought all my gear so i was ready by end of august for bulldozer, well i even was patience enough to the 19th.
> 
> But now i got a 990fx board here with 2x 6950, but im using a sempron 140
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because i dont want to waste money on a phenon II and i got this sempron for free.
> 
> It was firstly for my gamepc, but i also do rendering, and i thought ah well that 8 core can be kinda good, wish i bought the I7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ill wait till end of September, else everything goes back and ill jump on the I7 2600k.


what a bunch of complainers, November release is only 2 more months


----------



## WhitePrQjser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;14999385*
> @least you got an i5 2500k to wait with and not a sempron 140


Yeah, but it's not for me







It's for a friend of mine.

I'm just hooked on putting PCs together








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;14999415*
> what a bunch of complainers, November release is only 2 more months


November release!? God effing damnit!


----------



## Cyclonic

Why would i wait till November ? I could get a Sandy Bridge -E then, epic fail from AMD if they really go for a November release.


----------



## blabla125

why do you say it would be an epic fail if they wait to sbe?cause bd may be better no 1 will know till they both come out but by then people would be realy pissed!


----------



## Schmuckley

i'm ready to spend some computer money now! like..yesterday! where's the bulldozer?..i saw this...http://www.overclockers.com/amd-fx-bulldozer-breaks-cpu-frequency-world-record/......where's the chips for the masses?..c'mon amd..if it's november..i'm gonna go get a 2600k..and a better z68 board.upgrade my cooling n stuff...geez


----------



## Tex1954

Seems to me, the only thing that counts is product in my sticky hand! I have a Sabertooth (latest rev) and a 6990 waiting to get watercooled in an 800D case. All I lack is the stupid Bulldozer chip! I suppose I could put my spare 1090T in there for now, but what a pain... I want my 8 core BOINC cruncher/Server machine running!


----------



## DarthElvis

The more BD is delayed, the longer people wait with absolutely no news, the greater number of people will go to Intel. This is evidenced by this very thread. Way to keep your customers AMD. Why don't you pull your head out and give some *real* news, instead of useless O/C e-peen stroking. For all we know, a stock 2500k can still beat that o/c'd BD. After all, there's no proof is there? No benches released with the o/c numbers. Makes it look like AMD have something to hide. Like maybe a garbage chip? Another Phenom I debacle?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blabla125;14999234*
> jf is bd more server or client based?
> 
> 1st edit sorry i meant like are we going to see more performance increase in client or server if you cannot say i understand


It is neither. We have 2 cores, bulldozer is focused on scalable applications, bobcat is focused on low power environments.


----------



## blabla125

thanks jf


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


what a bunch of complainers, November release is only 2 more months


ohh sweet irony

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


I say we make weapons and armor out of old computer tech we all probably have lying around

And we go storm AMD and find out whats going on with BD, clearly no one at AMD knew what was going on over the 60-90 days of summer

STORM



Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


another day with no BD news, just delays


----------



## baltar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;14995960*
> September 26 is the launch date. Stop playin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I am so confident that September 26 is the launch date...if Bulldozer doesn't release by September 26 I will sell my desktop and never own another desktop again. I love desktops but I am so confident BD will release on September 26 that it's all gravy.


Sooo, what makes you think Sept 26th is the launch date?

Just curious, its kinda hard to keep up with this thread as it is...


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;14995423*
> It makes no sense to try and make sense of speculation. That's why it's called speculation.


I need to remember that. Some of the posters here and at AT seem to be well versed in this subject though, hard not to give it at least a bit of credence.

Finally figured out - with some help from the motherboard forums - how to unlock my X2's cores on this Sabertooth board so I'm in a better position to wait now anyway. Struggling a bit with the AMI bios - much more familiar with the Award bios from my Gigabytes.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *baltar*


Sooo, what makes you think Sept 26th is the launch date?

Just curious, its kinda hard to keep up with this thread as it is...


september 26


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Oh and I asked JF-AMD if he could state for the record that the launch date wasn't September 26...no response.










dude he would't reply because if by some lucky day it does then he said no amd could







him...i hope it releases 26th thou thumbs up


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


september 26


He didn't respond because he has already said Q4.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Ok. I guess Q4 then...

JF you can stand by your comment in the blog, right? Zambezi is officially set for Q4?


That is what I was told.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Do you guys read my blog or the blog comments? We said Q4 a while ago.



Hope you don't enjoy your desktop. If you actually stand by the absurd assertion you made, you'll be without one.


----------



## blabla125

big cactus do you have







?i realy hope you right but i doubt it


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I think it is more of him giving AMD a deadline, if they dont meet it he is selling his Desktop


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I think it is more of him giving AMD a deadline, if they dont meet it he is selling his Desktop










No.









I just bought 3 pc games recently. I wouldn't make this remark if I wasn't dead on serious.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


He didn't respond because he has already said Q4.
:


Oh really? I asked for him to say for the record that it won't be released on September 26. If He can't say it for the record, that is just more proof.


----------



## blabla125

but how do you know 26th did some1 tel you etc?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


but how do you know 26th did some1 tel you etc?


Like everybody other rumored date, it's just a guess.

Q4 Months = October, November, December.

I can tell you right now with 100% certainty, it's NOT coming September 26.

You'll be lucky if it comes out in October.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


No.









I just bought 3 pc games recently. I wouldn't make this remark if I wasn't dead on serious.



In your signature : 
" I am so confident that September 26, 2011 is the launch date...if Bulldozer doesn't release by September 26, 2011 I will sell my desktop and never own another desktop again. I love desktops but I am so confident BD will release on September 26 that it's all gravy."

- BigCactus 9/19/2011.


----------



## JDTreece

I'm pretty sure that someone's desktop is going up on the market in 6 days. Just sayin'.


----------



## Canis-X

What is one of JF's favorite comments?

.....No comment...

What if he is just ignoring you flat out and living up to what "no comment" means? Never place all your eggs in one basket.....LOL


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



I'm pretty sure that someone's desktop is going up on the market in 6 days. Just sayin'.


haha lold so bad hahaha


----------



## blabla125

big cactus so if you sell you pc how is the price?im interested...


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


New results from OBR, this time FX is comparable with 2600K (and 1100T also):

OBR Faked junk


OBR is a troll, no need to post his results here. Even chew* said that the chip he has is NOWHERE NEAR representative of Bulldozers performance.

I take AMD's silence as supreme confidence. I mean, they're not defending their products, not trying to get people to not switch, releasing benches to sway us etc. I think they believe that "hey, when this thing hits, you'll all be at our feet." At least that's my interpretation of AMD not responding to anything/leaking any info.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Maybe OCN should take on the same policy as Xtremesystems. If you post anything from OBR you will be taking a temp vacation from posting on the boards.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Maybe OCN should take on the same policy as Xtremesystems. If you post anything from OBR you will be taking a temp vacation from posting on the boards.


This sounds as it was from medieval witch hunt times and not from a modern open society. This is very sad post...


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


What is one of JF's favorite comments?

.....No comment...

What if he is just ignoring you flat out and living up to what "no comment" means? Never place all your eggs in one basket.....LOL


Or he's trying to be slick to avoid not giving away the sept. 26 launch date.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


This sounds as it was from medieval witch hunt times and not from a modern open society. This is very sad post...


OBR was banned from xtremesystems so I think that is why they put that policy in place.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


big cactus so if you sell you pc how is the price?im interested...


You mean what price would I sell it after I upgrade to bulldozer on Sept. 26?


----------



## xaeonit

I just checked wikipedia and it says :

For example, the United States government fiscal year for 2011 ("FY 2011" or "FY11") is as follows:
1st Quarter: October 1, 2010 - December 31, 2010
2nd Quarter: January 1, 2011 - March 31, 2011
3rd Quarter: April 1, 2011 - June 30, 2011
4th Quarter: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011

If we follow this logic, BD should be out before sept 30.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Good try, but JF-AMD has confirmed AMD's fiscal year follows the calendar year.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xaeonit*


I just checked wikipedia and it says :

For example, the United States government fiscal year for 2011 ("FY 2011" or "FY11") is as follows:
1st Quarter: October 1, 2010 - December 31, 2010
2nd Quarter: January 1, 2011 - March 31, 2011
3rd Quarter: April 1, 2011 - June 30, 2011
4th Quarter: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011

If we follow this logic, BD should be out before sept 30.



i think AMD does it more like this,but i could be wrong

1st Quarter: January 1, 2011 - March 31, 2011
2nd Quarter: April 1, 2011 - June 30, 2011
3rdQuarter: July 1, 2011 - September 30, 2011
4th Quarter: October 1, 2010 - December 31, 2010


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


This sounds as it was from medieval witch hunt times and not from a modern open society. This is very sad post...


In a modern open society, everyone is expected to be well informed. OBR Timeline:

OBR: Here are some benchies!!!

Trololololololol gotcha they fakez noobs.

Ok ok for reals now here are some benchies!!!!

do you think every one of his photoshopped benches should be posted here? After people who have been working with BD for months have confirmed that his results are BS? If you're going to post a bench, evaluate the source first please, as this is a modern open society, and you are able to do so.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


Good try, but JF-AMD has confirmed AMD's fiscal year follows the calendar year.


And JF-AMD don't lie










If Bulldozer isn't out by September 26, I'll stop posting OCN.

I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I didn't know BD wasn't coming out on Sept. 26. The only reason it wouldn't come out on Sept. 26 is if there was a delay I didn't know about.


----------



## Tator Tot

Instead of selling your system; can you just ship it to me?

I run a similar system (i've got an unlocked 840T) but I could always use the GTX 470 for folding.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Instead of selling your system; can you just ship it to me?

I run a similar system (i've got an unlocked 840T) but I could always use the GTX 470 for folding.










I'm not selling. If pigs fly and bulldozer doesn't launch on that day, then I will be. GTX470 also makes a great heater...just in time for winter.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


If Bulldozer isn't out by September 26, I'll stop posting OCN.


Ok I wonder how many people will sig this







I thought about it....LOL


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


And JF-AMD don't lie









If Bulldozer isn't out by September 26, I'll stop posting OCN.

I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I didn't know BD wasn't coming out on Sept. 26. The only reason it wouldn't come out on Sept. 26 is if there was a delay I didn't know about.


Source?


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


And JF-AMD don't lie









If Bulldozer isn't out by September 26, I'll stop posting OCN.

I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I didn't know BD wasn't coming out on Sept. 26. The only reason it wouldn't come out on Sept. 26 is if there was a delay I didn't know about.


When you sa BD is that an open ended statement? Will either server or client prove you right? Or is it just FX...just trying to close some loopholes









Also would a paper launch count?


----------



## flashtest

First, a Hello to everyone on the forums - i am a big fan for a while now.

Let me say that i am also excited as with the launch of every new hardware, but...

First - i find the lack of information from AMD disappointing - 
The - "Yeah we have a new chip - yes we even made a great overclocking contest with it (and i must say from pure Mhz standpoint it was respectful ). but No we won't tell you when you can give us your money for it, no we can't tell you if it is better than the current offerings on the market" message kind of counter-supporting to the AMD community.

Secondly - the production switch from PC to Server processors (the Crays which are getting the Interlagos even before they are listened as a Product on amd.com) makes a perfect sense from a company standpoint at low yields (i can only guess how much more money they get from a Server CPU compared to a Desktop one) - Money is top 1 priority for every company - but telling us - "look in our blog at this picture where we are already selling it to the guys paying more " - without giving us a bone to chew on (some benchmarks/a NDA end date) is for me personally not the best marketing.

I don't get the idea behind the silence 
- is it due to production capabilities, if so some benchmarks would make people actually wait for the CPU to get into mass production.

Did resellers ask for more time to shift away the old stock (even if i can't see anyone with his right mind buying a 150+$ AMD CPU - and bulldozer won't hurt the sub 150 market at the beginning.

Or does the chip simply score bad (if it's slow, silence will only slow down an Intel CPU purchase - not prevent it and as a bonus bring AMD's reputation and eventually the chance for revenge with B2 to zero)

After a big wall of text - my personal opinion:
Personally when i get the urge to upgrade i just do it biting the bullet that there will be something better on the market in a few months - that is and will be always so.
Next month i am going on a 2600 due to lack of info from AMD and info from intel that they are releasing 2700(pricesink for 2600) - and being an AMD user since the old K5 i am sad that this is happening only due to their silence.

TLDR:
Personal lack of understanding for AMD's silence.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sequoia464*


I need to remember that. Some of the posters here and at AT seem to be well versed in this subject though, hard not to give it at least a bit of credence.


Honestly, anything really worth knowing about performance and release date is so deep into NDA that if it actually got leaked we'd see some AMD gestapo running around. The people who are "well versed" are only well versed in rumors that have absolutely no basis on factual information.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Maybe OCN should take on the same policy as Xtremesystems. If you post anything from OBR you will be taking a temp vacation from posting on the boards.


I personally would love this. Spreading false information like that just starts more trolling, flaming, personal attacks and closed threads. The mods shouldn't have to deal with that crap. OCN ought to be better than that.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Source?


Source = BigCactus


----------



## blabla125

bigcatctus if bd doesnt come out will you give me your pc?show me how confident you are...

Edit:if it doesnt come out 26th september 2011 and il be glad to pay for shipping but not case exclude case








Edit2:i only saw tator tots post now


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


And JF-AMD don't lie









If Bulldozer isn't out by September 26, I'll stop posting OCN.

I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I didn't know BD wasn't coming out on Sept. 26. The only reason it wouldn't come out on Sept. 26 is if there was a delay I didn't know about.


Well then, may your system find a good home and best of luck wherever your travels may take you.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


do you think every one of his photoshopped benches should be posted here? After people who have been working with BD for months have confirmed that his results are BS? If you're going to post a bench, evaluate the source first please, as this is a modern open society, and you are able to do so.


1) Well. Some FACTS. He is professional reviewer. Some recent review:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/pr...chitektury-1-2

You cannot simply disregard what he writes, because you do not like his "writing style".

2) From a logical point of view, things cannot be confirmed, just falsified by supplying some proofs. Unfortunatelly, his benches are the best available numbers. If somebody says that his numbers are false and supplies no proof, it is just waste of time.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


First, a Hello to everyone on the forums - i am a big fan for a while now.


Your questions can be answered here







And welcome to OCN

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15002914*
> Honestly, anything really worth knowing about performance and release date is so deep into NDA that if it actually got leaked we'd see some AMD gestapo running around.


Something else I need to remind myself of.


----------



## StepanPepan

I have some off topic suggestion for interesting reading:

*The Logic of Scientific Discovery* by Karl Popper is an essential book not only for somebody interested in scientific methodology, but for general public too.


----------



## LostKauz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


Who cares anymore.

It will be here when it is. It will perform as it does. People will be happy, people will be unhappy.

Legit info or bust.


if you dont care then why post in this thread? atleast my post was related to the topic of the thread with out being negative.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Your questions can be answered here







And welcome to OCN

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html


you link him to a post where JF AMD basically antagonizes every AMD fan thats been waiting for this processor since it was announced in 2007.

WOW way to retain members


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Quote:



Originally Posted by adridu59 
Yeah, why not cut that plastic "shroud" to fit the H50 in it ?


Originally Posted by bigcactus
It's just not necessary. I'd rather save it so I could resell the card later on. The Kuhler could always be used for something else.


this is my first time quote twice hope it turns out right but if you check bigcactus thread hes saving the plastic on his gpu so he can sell it on 26th




























i had to write origanaly posted by bigcactus







confused of making double quote from anoda thread


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


First, a Hello to everyone on the forums - i am a big fan for a while now.

Let me say that i am also excited as with the launch of every new hardware, but...

First - i find the lack of information from AMD disappointing - 
The - "Yeah we have a new chip - yes we even made a great overclocking contest with it (and i must say from pure Mhz standpoint it was respectful ). but No we won't tell you when you can give us your money for it, no we can't tell you if it is better than the current offerings on the market" message kind of counter-supporting to the AMD community.

Secondly - the production switch from PC to Server processors (the Crays which are getting the Interlagos even before they are listened as a Product on amd.com) makes a perfect sense from a company standpoint at low yields (i can only guess how much more money they get from a Server CPU compared to a Desktop one) - Money is top 1 priority for every company - but telling us - "look in our blog at this picture where we are already selling it to the guys paying more " - without giving us a bone to chew on (some benchmarks/a NDA end date) is for me personally not the best marketing.

I don't get the idea behind the silence 
- is it due to production capabilities, if so some benchmarks would make people actually wait for the CPU to get into mass production.

Did resellers ask for more time to shift away the old stock (even if i can't see anyone with his right mind buying a 150+$ AMD CPU - and bulldozer won't hurt the sub 150 market at the beginning.

Or does the chip simply score bad (if it's slow, silence will only slow down an Intel CPU purchase - not prevent it and as a bonus bring AMD's reputation and eventually the chance for revenge with B2 to zero)

After a big wall of text - my personal opinion:
Personally when i get the urge to upgrade i just do it biting the bullet that there will be something better on the market in a few months - that is and will be always so.
Next month i am going on a 2600 due to lack of info from AMD and info from intel that they are releasing 2700(pricesink for 2600) - and being an AMD user since the old K5 i am sad that this is happening only due to their silence.

TLDR:
Personal lack of understanding for AMD's silence.


Let me do you a real favor Flash.. The only person thats officially associated with AMD is basically giving the same story you've just told us.

Launch unknown we wont tell you

benchmarks unknown we wont tell you

price unknown we wont tell you

And I said it a lot frigging nicer than he did.

Dont go to any links from here proposing to answer any questions about AMD bulldozer.. As of now there are still no answers except its been delayed several times as you already know.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


you link him to a post where JF AMD basically antagonizes every AMD fan thats been waiting for this processor since it was announced in 2007.

WOW way to retain members


It has useful information and it is helpful in regards to why we have not heard anything from AMD.

*Q. When are you launching? Why don't you release the date?*A. When we launch, we launch. I will not comment on dates, I will not comment on schedules. We do not release dates prior to launch, at most we give quarter granularity. Giving the date out will stall demand. We have a business to run. While you might think that it will make your life easier to not have to guess, the reality is that we have a business to run and the minute you let the date out, sales stall. For everything. The cost impact of announcing the launch date is always bigger and drives these decisions

*Q. Why don't you release benchmarks before launch? You could steal so much business away from the other guy?*
A. Again, releasing benchmarks before launch will simply stall sales. Believe me, if the competition thinks they are out of position, will they just sit back and say "oh well" or will they react? Handing them benchmarks is simply giving them time to form a strategy. I am not in the business of helping them, they are on their own on this one.

*Q. I read on xyz site that you were launching on xxxxx?*A. Yeah, and I read on another site that elvis was still alive. The reason I don't comment on date rumors is that there are a limited number of days in the quarter. Once you say no to some, and suddenly say "no comment" or don't answer that one, immediately everyone thinks that is the date. So, no matter how crazy it sounds, you can't answer any of them.

*Q. I saw someone selling bulldozer parts online, that must mean the launch is happening, right?*A. No. First off, many of the people that are advertising parts for sale ahead of time do not have parts in hand. Buyer beware. If they are selling engineering samples, we will take care of that. Occasionally parts are loaded into disti databases, and if the flag is set wrong, it can flow through EDI to a partner's database and show up online. That does not mean parts are available. Oh, and sometimes distis use planned pricing and part numbers as placeholders, so don't believe what you see. Nobody is allowed to advertise parts ahead of launch.


----------



## Canis-X

By BigCactus' logic, I guess that AMD is going to fly me out to be the first recipient of the client version of BD.....









http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...l#post14988610


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


It has useful information and it is helpful in regards to why we have not heard anything from AMD.

*Q. When are you launching? Why don't you release the date?*A. When we launch, we launch. I will not comment on dates, I will not comment on schedules. We do not release dates prior to launch, at most we give quarter granularity. Giving the date out will stall demand. We have a business to run. While you might think that it will make your life easier to not have to guess, the reality is that we have a business to run and the minute you let the date out, sales stall. For everything. The cost impact of announcing the launch date is always bigger and drives these decisions

*Q. Why don't you release benchmarks before launch? You could steal so much business away from the other guy?*
A*. Again, releasing benchmarks before launch will simply stall sales. Believe me, if the competition thinks they are out of position, will they just sit back and say "oh well" or will they react? Handing them benchmarks is simply giving them time to form a strategy. I am not in the business of helping them, they are on their own on this one.*
*Q. I read on xyz site that you were launching on xxxxx?*A. *Yeah, and I read on another site that elvis was still alive.* The reason I don't comment on date rumors is that there are a limited number of days in the quarter. Once you say no to some, and suddenly say "no comment" or don't answer that one, immediately everyone thinks that is the date. So, no matter how crazy it sounds, you can't answer any of them.

*Q. I saw someone selling bulldozer parts online, that must mean the launch is happening, right?*A. No. First off, many of the people that are advertising parts for sale ahead of time do not have parts in hand. Buyer beware. If they are selling engineering samples, we will take care of that. Occasionally parts are loaded into disti databases, and if the flag is set wrong, it can flow through EDI to a partner's database and show up online. That does not mean parts are available. Oh, and sometimes distis use planned pricing and part numbers as placeholders, so don't believe what you see. Nobody is allowed to advertise parts ahead of launch.



thats the biggest copout ever and we all know it is #1

#2 He basically said there is no information.. and it took him about 12 paragraphs to do it in a very condescending tone.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


When you sa BD is that an open ended statement? Will either server or client prove you right? Or is it just FX...just trying to close some loopholes









Also would a paper launch count?


Those aren't loopholes.

Paper launch counts of course.


----------



## blabla125

bigcactus like the gordon freeman pic


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


thats the biggest copout ever and we all know it is #1
#2 He basically said there is no information.. and it took him about 12 paragraphs to do it in a very condescending tone.


Put yourself in John's shoes, being nagged everyday with the same questions over and over again non stop, he had to put this together, these are the questions he was receiving on a daily basis. 
I don't think what he posted was condescending, I find it amusing and informative. The FAQ is just, what he has said over and over again in this thread, but summarized.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


thats the biggest copout ever and we all know it is #1

#2 He basically said there is no information.. and it took him about 12 paragraphs to do it in a very condescending tone.


JF-AMD is a "server guy" so you just got served.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


JF-AMD is a "server guy" so you just got served.










^^This


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Put yourself in John's shoes, being nagged everyday with the same questions over and over again non stop, he had to put this together, these are the questions he was receiving on a daily basis. 
I don't think what he posted was condescending, I find it amusing and informative. The FAQ is just, what he has said over and over again in this thread, but summarized.



I never asked him any of those questions.

He never had to admit he was an AMD employee.

He set himself up for it by saying he is an AMD employee after bulldozer was announced 4 freaking years ago. He knew these questions would come.

I like the guy personally but I didnt like that post and I made it known when I first entered this thread.

That underlined bolded statement is about the worst excuse ever. Anyone with even a base understanding of market economics and technology knows 2 things

1) Intel is kicking amds royal ass already 1 gen ahead (32nm and amd still at 45 and not to be in 32 until 3 quarters after intel) so his statement about the competition sitting back is null. They're not sitting back they havent been. If AMD delays much more after now Intel will be 2 gens ahead of them.

2) Intel has a 95% share of HIS division of AMD's market. Servers. Lets hope to God he's given more info to those companies he's trying to sell to more than he's given to us. Cause any company I run would not be buying from AMD if I was a potential customer with the lack of information.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Put yourself in John's shoes, being nagged everyday with the same questions over and over again non stop, he had to put this together, these are the questions he was receiving on a daily basis. 
I don't think what he posted was condescending, I find it amusing and informative. The FAQ is just, what he has said over and over again in this thread, but summarized.


I like the marketing explanation in that FAQ. Doesn't want to give Intel an advantage? Doesn't want to stall sales? How can you stall sales. I'm pretty sure you can't stall sales if there is nothing to sell.

What will sell for a chip like this is performance. Everyone is going to look at the reviews first, then decide if they want to buy the processor. This is the way most tech people are.


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

There are *NO* benchmarks until the CPU is released. *PERIOD* It's been said that *EARLY OCTOBER* is the *TIME FRAME* that AMD will release BD. How hard is that to understand? Who gives a hoot if you saw something different on another site that *ISN'T* AMD? We have a spokesman from AMD here on the forums who created a thread *SPECIFICALLY* for the release of BD. He's condescending because people ask him the same stupid questions repeatedly that he already *answered repeatedly*.


----------



## blabla125

wr3ckin_cr3w are you running bd currently coz thats wat it says...


----------



## salokin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


1) Well. Some FACTS. He is professional reviewer. Some recent review:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/pr...chitektury-1-2

You cannot simply disregard what he writes, because you do not like his "writing style".

2) From a logical point of view, things cannot be confirmed, just falsified by supplying some proofs. Unfortunatelly, his benches are the best available numbers. If somebody says that his numbers are false and supplies no proof, it is just waste of time.


That's some great logic, "if you have nothing to disprove fake benchmarks from a source who has already been proven to be fake/bias numerous times, then his numbers are clearly the best available/correct"

WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND


----------



## flashtest

Thanks for the answers and the link to the post (somehow i missed it till now - had seen only his imo bad example with the delayed flight)

Yes understandably he can't give more info or "info about the lack of info" - It's like me or you giving out information while being under specific internal instructions from the manager that we are not allowed to tell anymore. acceptable - i was just wondering about their (lack of)strategy in general.
Well waiting for my October paycheck for the upgrade and hoping that some creditable information is out till then. (I want to believe AMD is a worthy competitor but the lack of news does not help.)


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


This sounds as it was from medieval witch hunt times and not from a modern open society. This is very sad post...


so your ok with a troll who name calls and post tons of fake stuff ????

Oo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


1) *Well. Some FACTS. He is professional reviewer*. Some recent review:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/pr...chitektury-1-2

You cannot simply disregard what he writes, because you do not like his "writing style".

2) From a logical point of view, things cannot be confirmed, just falsified by supplying some proofs. Unfortunatelly, his benches are the best available numbers. If somebody says that his numbers are false and supplies no proof, it is just waste of time.


I LOL'D very hard at that bolded part

nice try


----------



## blabla125

lmao good 1 salokin


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


1) Well. Some FACTS. He is professional reviewer.


OBR? lol. Who else would say such a thing?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*


WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND











Well obviously OBR's numbers were wrong, as through lots of complicated and technical research Salokin has uncovered some interesting performance numbers in a very relevant benchmark







I'm preordering 20


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


so your ok with a troll who name calls and post tons of fake stuff ????

Oo

I LOL'D very hard at that bolded part

nice try


And I LOL'D very hard to your post


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*


That's some great logic, "if you have nothing to disprove fake benchmarks from a source who has already been proven to be fake/bias numerous times, then his numbers are clearly the best available/correct"

WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Put yourself in John's shoes, being nagged everyday with the same questions over and over again non stop, he had to put this together, these are the questions he was receiving on a daily basis. 
I don't think what he posted was condescending, I find it amusing and informative. The FAQ is just, what he has said over and over again in this thread, but summarized.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wr3ckin_Cr3w*


There are *NO* benchmarks until the CPU is released. *PERIOD* It's been said that *EARLY OCTOBER* is the *TIME FRAME* that AMD will release BD. How hard is that to understand? Who gives a hoot if you saw something different on another site that *ISN'T* AMD? We have a spokesman from AMD here on the forums who created a thread *SPECIFICALLY* for the release of BD. He's condescending because people ask him the same stupid questions repeatedly that he already *answered repeatedly*.


People ask some questions repeatedly, because the answers don't seem to add up.

Check out this post. 
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post14979701

See John's reply to my post. He completely ignored the fact that YES AMD has revealed performance info in the past PRIOR to launch. While he keeps telling us that AMD *NEVER* reveals such info.

Most people are smart enough to see this post and recognize it for what it is.

I did a little digging around just now to see if AMD has revealed "launch dates" in the past, and came across this:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/10914...hip_dates.html

Then, I started to try and find more examples...

AMD Revealed the release date of the Athlon FX-60 early:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...h-date-emerges

Then on January 10 that revelation came true. 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ault,1204.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1920

Perhaps it's my Business Marketing degree, and being in Marketing for the past 10 years that makes me anal about these things, because when things don't add up, I try to figure out why.

It's nothing personal against JF-AMD, but I just don't buy the things he tells us at times.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


OBR? lol. Who else would say such a thing?


I wouldn't be surprised if it is OBR using a different name, also "Stepan" is a common Czech last name, and since he's using it in his screen name and OBR is from Czech Rep, it does look suspicious to me.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I wouldn't be surprised if it is OBR using a different name, also "Stepan" is a common Czech last name, and since he's using it in his screen name and OBR is from Czech Rep, it does look suspicious to me.


That is a wild theory, as he is the only one that somewhat defends OBR, but we have no way to prove that he is in fact OBR.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

2010rig - I see what you are saying but think of this way:
1>The plan was to wait until date X but to be competitive they changed the release date to today. 
2>What if the date mentioned to be the release, wasn't the original planned date. They just publicly announced said date to give themselves room just in case something happened or changed and after the engineers / benchmarks gave the all clear they released it.

*And this has been stated before as well:*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I wouldn't be surprised if it is OBR using a different name, also "Stepan" is a common Czech last name, and since he's using it in his screen name and OBR is from Czech Rep, it does look suspicious to me.


Oh and 2010rig: not sure if you remember but doesn't it seem that when Stepan comes in here bashing and posting there is another (new member) posting as well...hmmmm...


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


That is a wild theory, as he is the only one that somewhat defends OBR, but we have no way to prove that he is in fact OBR.


Of course not, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised at all if we found out that it was though.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


People ask some questions repeatedly, because the answers don't seem to add up.

Check out this post. 
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post14979701

See John's reply to my post. He completely ignored the fact that YES AMD has revealed performance info in the past PRIOR to launch. While he keeps telling us that AMD *NEVER* reveals such info.

Most people are smart enough to see this post and recognize it for what it is.

I did a little digging around just now to see if AMD has revealed "launch dates" in the past, and came across this:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/10914...hip_dates.html

Then, I started to try and find more examples...

AMD Revealed the release date of the Athlon FX-60 early:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...h-date-emerges

Then on January 10 that revelation came true. 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ault,1204.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1920

Perhaps it's my Business Marketing degree, and being in Marketing for the past 10 years that makes me anal about these things, because when things don't add up, I try to figure out why.

It's nothing personal against JF-AMD, but I just don't buy the things he tells us at times.


How many CEO's has AMD been through since 2003? Corporate policy has changed a lot since then.

I could be wrong, but I think that Llano performance video was a leak from a partner, not released to the public by AMD themselves. Their behavior has been pretty consistent. Especially since Dirk was canned.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Oh and 2010rig: not sure if you remember but doesn't it seem that when Stepan comes in here bashing and posting there is another (new member) posting as well...hmmmm...










Are you referring to me? and if so, what exactly are you getting at?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


How many CEO's has AMD been through since 2003? Corporate policy has changed a lot since then.

I could be wrong, but I think that Llano performance video was a leak from a partner, not released to the public by AMD themselves. Their behavior has been pretty consistent. Especially since Dirk was canned.


for example
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3933/a...ormance-update

or simply type "Zacate preview" in google - info was available prior launch so i easily decided to wait and get myself a E-350 Lenovo.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


2010rig - I see what you are saying but think of this way:
1>The plan was to wait until date X but to be competitive they changed the release date to today. 
2>What if the date mentioned to be the release, wasn't the original planned date. They just publicly announced said date to give themselves room just in case something happened or changed and after the engineers / benchmarks gave the all clear they released it.

*And this has been stated before as well:*

Oh and 2010rig: not sure if you remember but doesn't it seem that when Stepan comes in here bashing and posting there is another (new member) posting as well...hmmmm...










Yeah, my beef is not with the delays, because I understand these things happen. My beef is with the reasoning we are given for why they can't reveal information.

To say that AMD NEVER reveals such info, when I know for a fact that they've done it before is what bothers me.

With my marketing background, my radar goes off as I know how marketers think, and in this case we are being told things that are simply not true.

What if JF-AMD said...

Quote:



*In the past we have revealed this info, but right now, we're not at liberty to do so.*


I can respect that, and it would be case closed. No further questions.

Instead we are left guessing and wondering what is going on, and since we have un-answered questions, we want answers. It's human nature.

This is the 1st time I've ever heard of a company saying "Launch date on the launch date" that doesn't make sense on so many levels.

It's clear that all year, they haven't known when BD would be ready to launch, and thus they're not going to reveal the Launch Date. Apparently they do know the launch date now, but it's locked under NDA. Fun times following this fiasco, I ask myself why am I still waiting?

--------

Anyway, I did find it suspicious when that new member came in here posting, especially with who he is supporting.









Anything posted from OBR I flat out ignore, and don't care for. He lost all credibility after he admitted he was trolling.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


I never asked him any of those questions.

He never had to admit he was an AMD employee.

*He set himself up for it by saying he is an AMD employee after bulldozer was announced 4 freaking years ago. He knew these questions would come. *

I like the guy personally but I didnt like that post and I made it known when I first entered this thread.

That underlined bolded statement is about the worst excuse ever. Anyone with even a base understanding of market economics and technology knows 2 things

*1) Intel is kicking amds royal ass already 1 gen ahead (32nm and amd still at 45 and not to be in 32 until 3 quarters after intel) so his statement about the competition sitting back is null. They're not sitting back they havent been. If AMD delays much more after now Intel will be 2 gens ahead of them.

2) Intel has a 95% share of HIS division of AMD's market. Servers. Lets hope to God he's given more info to those companies he's trying to sell to more than he's given to us. Cause any company I run would not be buying from AMD if I was a potential customer with the lack of information.*


So by your position here, you also believe that just because a girl dresses provocatively, that she deserves to be oogled, talked about behind her back, given dirty looks, etc....I won't go so far as to say rapped though....that is just blatantly wrong and OTT.

I believe that JF is all to aware of the current position that AMD holds in today's market.....probably better than you or I and I am willing to bet that AMD is doing everything in their power to ensure that this release is going to be as rock solid as possible. But, do they own an explanation to us consumers, I think not, they do owe an explanation to their share holders who aren't going to jeopardize things by releasing information that could negatively impact the bottom line.

Be patient if you intend on waiting, if not, you are free to go by Intel as well. Nothing is holding you to waiting for AMD, but getting all upset about a CPU being released is a little, well, odd. :|


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


for example
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3933/a...ormance-update

or simply type "Zacate preview" in google - info was available prior launch so i easily decided to wait and get myself a E-350 Lenovo.


Thanks and congrats on your first Rep.









I hadn't seen that before and now I don't know what to think.


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wr3ckin_Cr3w*


There are *NO* benchmarks until the CPU is released. *PERIOD* It's been said that *EARLY OCTOBER* is the *TIME FRAME* that AMD will release BD. How hard is that to understand? Who gives a hoot if you saw something different on another site that *ISN'T* AMD? We have a spokesman from AMD here on the forums who created a thread *SPECIFICALLY* for the release of BD. He's condescending because people ask him the same stupid questions repeatedly that he already *answered repeatedly*.


2010rig,

I'm quoting myself because this is aimed at you. Read the thread title. This is about BD. JF is not talking about previous CPU releases or the situation (benchmarks, leaks, release dates) pertaining to those. He has said the launch date is the launch date for BD. He's giving us all the info he can and that's all we're going to get from the mouth of the AMD spokesman. You can satisfy your curiosity from 3rd party sites and rumors, but that's all you're going to get. Again, you're flooding JF with the *same* question. The thing has been delayed for years without a reason given and now we're told it's going to be early October and you're wanting a reason out of him _*now?*_ Do yourself a favor and move on.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


How many CEO's has AMD been through since 2003? Corporate policy has changed a lot since then.

I could be wrong, but I think that Llano performance video was a leak from a partner, not released to the public by AMD themselves. Their behavior has been pretty consistent. Especially since Dirk was canned.


The Llano video was from an AMD employee Godfrey Chan ( I think ) he says his name at the beginning of the video.

It was posted on the AMDUnprocessed Channel, the same channel where JF-AMD posted his Bulldozer vids.

Quote:



Llano Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74



Quote:



John's Bulldozer Videos 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7kr4kimeM


Corporate policy may have changed, but we were told AMD NEVER reveals such info.







That's my gripe with this whole thing. All these delays haven't helped the cause.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


I never asked him any of those questions.

He never had to admit he was an AMD employee.

He set himself up for it by saying he is an AMD employee after bulldozer was announced 4 freaking years ago. He knew these questions would come.


Questions without a doubt, but that doesn't mean he should put up with some of the crap that's been flying around here and other places. I must say that I have little understanding of the "He said he's from AMD, so therefor he should answer to all my frustration"-camp. Yes, he works for AMD but give the some cred for being here discussing something we're all interested in and in his own time. I don't see him as a company rep here, but a guy that is here because of what he finds interesting.

He tells us what he can about what's happening, but the real goodies have been in the discussions about architecture and capabilities of BD - which we would have a lot less information about if he wasn't here. I for one hopes he stays around.

You're annoyed and irritated over something like a launchdate at someone who is not permitted to say much of anything about launch and benchmarks. He *can't* give you a date! He *can't* give you benchies. He would probably get fired if he did - and seriously, none of us here are worth it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


I like the guy personally but I didnt like that post and I made it known when I first entered this thread.


I don't really agree with your take about the vibe of that post.

That's my take on all of this anyways...


----------



## Whyzguy

Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.

I noticed that this thread runs in circles.

1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
3. Rage
4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
5. Claims
6. 0 proof
7. JF steps in
8. Rage and accusations
9. JF is defended
10. rinse and go to step 1.

Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Whyzguy*


Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.

I noticed that this thread runs in circles.

1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
3. Rage
4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
5. Claims
6. 0 proof
7. JF steps in
8. Rage and accusations
9. JF is defended
10. rinse and go to step 1.

Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.



^this - too true


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Whyzguy*


Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.

I noticed that this thread runs in circles.

1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
3. Rage
4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
5. Claims
6. 0 proof
7. JF steps in
8. Rage and accusations
9. JF is defended
10. rinse and go to step 1.

Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.


Pretty much, but where does your post exist in that awesome cycle?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


New results from OBR, this time FX is comparable with 2600K (and 1100T also):











Yay! More lies!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


what a bunch of complainers, November release is only 2 more months


Oh the irony....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


1) Well. Some FACTS. He is professional reviewer. Some recent review:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/pr...chitektury-1-2

You cannot simply disregard what he writes, because you do not like his "writing style".

2) From a logical point of view, things cannot be confirmed, just falsified by supplying some proofs. Unfortunatelly, his benches are the best available numbers. If somebody says that his numbers are false and supplies no proof, it is just waste of time.


He admitted he lied... so that makes him a reputable source?

... Am I feeding a troll by writing this?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


you link him to a post where JF AMD basically antagonizes every AMD fan thats been waiting for this processor since it was announced in 2007.

WOW way to retain members


He only antagonizes annoying idiots.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


JF-AMD is a "server guy" so you just got served.



























Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wr3ckin_Cr3w*


There are *NO* benchmarks until the CPU is released. *PERIOD* It's been said that *EARLY OCTOBER* is the *TIME FRAME* that AMD will release BD. How hard is that to understand? Who gives a hoot if you saw something different on another site that *ISN'T* AMD? We have a spokesman from AMD here on the forums who created a thread *SPECIFICALLY* for the release of BD. He's condescending because people ask him the same stupid questions repeatedly that he already *answered repeatedly*.


this

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*


That's some great logic, "if you have nothing to disprove fake benchmarks from a source who has already been proven to be fake/bias numerous times, then his numbers are clearly the best available/correct"

WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND











lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I wouldn't be surprised if it is OBR using a different name, also "Stepan" is a common Czech last name, and since he's using it in his screen name and OBR is from Czech Rep, it does look suspicious to me.


IMO it's not unlikely.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


So by your position here, you also believe that just because a girl dresses provocatively, that she deserves to be oogled, talked about behind her back, given dirty looks, etc....I won't go so far as to say rapped though....that is just blatantly wrong and OTT.

I believe that JF is all to aware of the current position that AMD holds in today's market.....probably better than you or I and I am willing to bet that AMD is doing everything in their power to ensure that this release is going to be as rock solid as possible. But, do they own an explanation to us consumers, I think not, they do owe an explanation to their share holders who aren't going to jeopardize things by releasing information that could negatively impact the bottom line.

Be patient if you intend on waiting, if not, you are free to go by Intel as well. Nothing is holding you to waiting for AMD, but getting all upset about a CPU being released is a little, well, odd. :|


this

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Whyzguy*


Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.

I noticed that this thread runs in circles.

1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
3. Rage
4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
5. Claims
6. 0 proof
7. JF steps in
8. Rage and accusations
9. JF is defended
10. rinse and go to step 1.

Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.


Very true.


----------



## mad87645

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Whyzguy*


Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.

I noticed that this thread runs in circles.

1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
3. Rage
4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
5. Claims
6. 0 proof
7. JF steps in
8. Rage and accusations
9. JF is defended
10. rinse and go to step 1.

Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.


but now we have broken the cycle...

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!


----------



## ACHILEE5

I'm sure that AMD know what they're doing!
But, why was there a Wheel Loader on the desk


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


I'm sure that AMD know what they're doing!
But, why was there a Wheel Loader on the desk










That is confidential and included in the NDA.









.....Engineering sample, perhaps?? LOL


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


I'm sure that AMD know what they're doing!
But, why was there a Wheel Loader on the desk










Because the bulldozer was suppose to be there but it got delayed


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


Are you referring to me? and if so, what exactly are you getting at?


Not you my friend


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


That is confidential and included in the NDA.









.....Engineering sample, perhaps?? LOL


Yeah, It's all part of the plan









Just as long as they don't have wheel loaders, printed on the boxes









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Because the bulldozer was suppose to be there but it got delayed


















lmao


----------



## flashtest

Btw, snooping google - Bulldozer cores are recognized as 1/2 according to this link under RedHat.

More interesting - the report says it's an engineering sample - did they ship eng.s to the Servers or is it just some guy testing ? - the reporter is a Dell Support afaik.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=739806


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*


I'm sure that AMD know what they're doing!
But, why was there a Wheel Loader on the desk



















for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom

QUESTION: What is the latest OFFICIAL statement from AMD regarding desktop BD release???

Did they actually say "Q4" - or is that just heresay from tech-site articles

;ksrhlnm


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom

QUESTION: What is the latest OFFICIAL statement from AMD regarding desktop BD release???

Did they actually say "Q4" - or is that just heresay from tech-site articles

is this real, from sept 9th, says mid oct


JF said q4, I don't feel like pulling up the post though.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom


Yeah, and maybe he hacked in to AMD's website to post the video and start a blog too.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom


hehe, after that he forced amd to upload it to their official youtube channel and blogs









btw Interlagos looks promising - pushing 25-30% over the old Opterons (Improved Stars?) in multimedia benchmarks (maybe due to better multi-core sync too) - according to the 18.Sept Sandra report (dunno why anyone would buy a sisoft sandra just to publish fake results)


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom

QUESTION: What is the latest OFFICIAL statement from AMD regarding desktop BD release???

Did they actually say "Q4" - or is that just heresay from tech-site articles

;ksrhlnm


I have found myself using the "







" emote a lot today.


----------



## Tweeky

Doesn't any buddy know when bulldozer will be delayed?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;15006253*
> Doesn't any buddy know when bulldozer will be delayed?












Not really sure how to answer that cryptic question.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15005590*
> for all we know he rented an AMD shirt off someone's back for a few minutes and made a video at the TV store showroom
> 
> QUESTION: What is the latest OFFICIAL statement from AMD regarding desktop BD release???
> 
> Did they actually say "Q4" - or is that just heresay from tech-site articles
> 
> ;ksrhlnm


this coming from the guy who doesnt trust @amd_unprocessed on twitter


----------



## StarDestroyer

alright but JF can't comment on desktop as he always says

has AMD released a new date like they did at computex, or is Q4 UN-official


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;14985786*
> What would make you consider BD a flop?


I don't quite mean flop, but if it ends up being bad at folding (which I don't think it would be in SMP because of it having eight threads) or if the eight threads throws off gaming performance then it wouldn't go ask I would like to to. And while I know the price is going to be about $300, I don't want it to be so far behind a 2600K that the price/performance ratio is ruined.

Sorry about my wording; talking is not my forte.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15007269*
> Sorry about my wording; talking is not my forte.


You've got girl parts. All is forgiven.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15007269*
> I don't quite mean flop, but if it ends up being bad at folding (which I don't think it would be in SMP because of it having eight threads) or if the eight threads throws off gaming performance then it wouldn't go ask I would like to to. And while I know the price is going to be about $300, I don't want it to be so far behind a 2600K that the price/performance ratio is ruined.
> 
> Sorry about my wording; talking is not my forte.


I understood you perfectly fine. I really don't think Bulldozer will

be a dissapointment for you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;15007316*
> You've got girl parts. All is forgiven.


And people wonder why we don't have more females around here.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15007015*
> alright but JF can't comment on desktop as he always says
> 
> has AMD released a new date like they did at computex, or is Q4 UN-official


It was also listed as q4 launch on amds blog. I don't feel like trying to find it atm.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15007445*
> I understood you perfectly fine. I really don't think Bulldozer will
> 
> be a dissapointment for you.


This is bueno.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;15007316*
> You've got girl parts. All is forgiven.


Quote:


> And people wonder why we don't have more females around here.


I thought it was pretty humorous.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;15007524*
> It was also listed as q4 launch on amds blog. I don't feel like trying to find it atm.


+rep, but so they never did anything like at computex

I don't watch brainwashing TV anymore, do they advertise amd or intel or nvidia on there? I can't remember


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15007698*
> I don't watch brainwashing TV anymore, do they advertise amd or intel or nvidia on there? I can't remember


I've been seeing tons of Intel commercials lately, might have something to do with the (soon-ish?) release of BD and Intel trying to shove themselves down as many average Joe's throats as possible before it hits the shelves. I don't see any AMD commercials or Nvidia for that matter.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;15007911*
> I've been seeing tons of Intel commercials lately, might have something to do with the (soon-ish?) release of BD and Intel trying to shove themselves down as many average Joe's throats as possible before it hits the shelves. I don't see any AMD commercials or Nvidia for that matter.


I always see Intel commercials, nothing new. don't think I've ever seen ATI/AMD/Nvidia on TV


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47;15008128*
> I always see Intel commercials, nothing new. don't think I've ever seen ATI/AMD/Nvidia on TV


Yes, but they're really pushing it now, I'm seeing like 3 to 5 per day, no exaggeration.


----------



## catharsis

I really don't think intel fears amd at all anymore.


----------



## 2010rig

Meh, I like NewEgg commercials better.









[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYk0dQrz3uc[/ame]

OT: Since NewEgg sells AMD parts, and will soon sell Bulldozer, this commercial is relevant to our interests.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;14994078*
> I just took the time to read around 10 pages of this thread.
> 
> I wish I hadn't.


Just read through 3 pages at 70 posts a piece. Meh.

Mods: can we have our slightly off topic uarch discussions back now?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15003572*
> I like the marketing explanation in that FAQ. Doesn't want to give Intel an advantage? Doesn't want to stall sales? How can you stall sales. I'm pretty sure you can't stall sales if there is nothing to sell.
> 
> What will sell for a chip like this is performance. Everyone is going to look at the reviews first, then decide if they want to buy the processor. This is the way most tech people are.


/\/\ this \/\/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15003506*
> JF-AMD is a "server guy" so you just got served.
























Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Whyzguy;15004586*
> Hey guys, thought I'd pop in for a bit.
> 
> I noticed that this thread runs in circles.
> 
> 1. "Hey when's BD coming out/Hey anyone got benchies yet?"
> 2. Don't know/no benchies/fake benchies
> 3. Rage
> 4. Intel fanboys fueling the rage
> 5. Claims
> 6. 0 proof
> 7. JF steps in
> 8. Rage and accusations
> 9. JF is defended
> 10. rinse and go to step 1.
> 
> Thought I'd help some of you guys out if you're still reading close to 600 pages.


Exactly!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;15008151*
> Yes, but they're really pushing it now, I'm seeing like 3 to 5 per day, no exaggeration.


You know, I mentioned something like this after going to see harry potter and had 2 intel commercials before the movie. It was ignored. Glad to see someone else noticed and mentioned it, I was Utterly surprised, AMD needs more marketing monies!


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15007445*
> And people wonder why we don't have more females around here.


It was a joke.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15007558*
> I thought it was pretty humorous.


Thanks.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15003506*
> JF-AMD is a "server guy" so you just got served.


LOL.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *salokin;15003734*
> That's some great logic, "if you have nothing to disprove fake benchmarks from a source who has already been proven to be fake/bias numerous times, then his numbers are clearly the best available/correct"
> 
> WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND


That looks about as legit as some of the others we have seen from that one website. WCCF or something like that.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;15008451*
> It was a joke.


Don't cry little guy, I was just giving you a hard time.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *salokin;15003734*
> That's some great logic, "if you have nothing to disprove fake benchmarks from a source who has already been proven to be fake/bias numerous times, then his numbers are clearly the best available/correct"
> 
> WOAH! GUYS LOOK NEW BENCHMARKS I JUST CREATED/FOUND


*click mehttp://i.imgur.com/Hz34O.jpg[/IMG]
"]*


----------



## Shahzad7

I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15008596*
> That looks about as legit as some of the others we have seen from that one website. WCCF or something like that.


Speaking of WCCF - I'm pretty sure that the WWF has a bulldozer review out there somewhere also. Can't find it at the moment...


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15009023*
> I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?


theres 266MHz difference


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15009023*
> I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?


Won't know for sure until official benchmarks come out. But I'd say X GB of 1866 won't be much faster than X GB of 1600. Unless the BD platform is completely different than any other platform out there. If you are on a budget I'd go with 1600. Not trying to justify my purchase...but that's what I did.

This might help...
http://www.overclock.net/intel-memory/579828-1600mhz-vs-1866mhz-vs-2000mhz.html


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;15009051*
> Speaking of WCCF - I'm pretty sure that the WWF has a bulldozer review out there somewhere also. Can't find it at the moment...


World Wrestling Federation has bulldozer reviews? I suppose John Cena taking on a bulldozer would be impressive.


----------



## Wbroach23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15009023*
> I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?


Theres 1866 G. Skill Sniper on newegg for 69.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231460


----------



## blabla125

yah im wondering what ram to buy for bd is corsair vengence better than g.skill ripjaws


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15009415*
> World Wrestling Federation has bulldozer reviews? I suppose John Cena taking on a bulldozer would be impressive.


The reviews are turning up in some amazing places...


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*












Whoa! JF, can you confirm if this is the production silicone?


----------



## el gappo

Looks legit compared to the wccf articles. Also better written.


----------



## cssorkinman

[QUOThttp://www.overclock.net/intel-memory/1099771-blue-ripjaw-x-ram-4x4gb-questions-3.html#post14741690E=Shahzad7;15009023]I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?[/QUOTE]

I compared the 2 speeds on my 2600 k rig, thought maybe this post comparing them would show the difference :http://www.overclock.net/intel-memor...l#post14741690


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oicw*


Whoa! JF, can you confirm if this is the production silicone?


Whoa. Bewbs and computers ftw?









(I couldn't help myself.)


----------



## Tatakai All

Wow, this thread has really gone down the crapper.


----------



## swindle

I'm just in it for the post count yo.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Wow, this thread has really gone down


It is heading to the product to be released soon to match its quality well.

BTW I dont get how somebody still can be optimistic.

Has anyone EVER in their lifes experienced, that something frequently postponed and accompanied by complete silence was sucess? People having something done well are joyfull and talkative. Silence is the attribute of failure and despair.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


It is heading to the product to be released soon to match its quality well.

BTW I dont get how somebody still can be optimistic.

Has anyone EVER in their lifes experienced, that something frequently postponed and accompanied by complete silence was sucess? People having something done well are joyfull and talkative. Silence is the attribute of failure and despair.


tell that to apple


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stepanpepan*


it is heading to the product to be released soon to match its quality well.

Btw i dont get how somebody still can be optimistic.

Has anyone ever in their lifes experienced, that something frequently postponed and accompanied by complete silence was sucess? People having something done well are joyfull and talkative. Silence is the attribute of failure and despair.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *pale_neon*


tell that to apple


*zing!*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Anything new yet?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


It is heading to the product to be released soon to match its quality well.

BTW I dont get how somebody still can be optimistic.

Has anyone EVER in their lifes experienced, that something frequently postponed and accompanied by complete silence was sucess? People having something done well are joyfull and talkative. Silence is the attribute of failure and despair.


but believing in obr is better









Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Anything new yet?


new rumors of lower then expected pricing ... other then that .. nothing concrete

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...l#post15011651

check out the source ...


----------



## Carop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Btw, snooping google - Bulldozer cores are recognized as 1/2 according to this link under RedHat.

More interesting - the report says it's an engineering sample - did they ship eng.s to the Servers or is it just some guy testing ? - the reporter is a Dell Support afaik.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=739806


Are the AMD Eng Samples uniquely identifed? If you "snoop" further with google, you will find out that the same AMD Eng Sample has been reported on sisoftware's web site running on a SuperMicro H8DGT under Windows 7:

http://www.sisoftware.eu/rank2011d/s...eb8cbf6c6&l=en

The reporter at sisoftware is anonymous. However, the reporter at Red Hat appears to be with Dell India. The report at Red Hat is probably authentic since it has been assigned to the Kernel Manager.

Theo Valich at brightsideofnews reported back in July that Gateway leaked details of the Bulldozer server CPUs:

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...top-speed.aspx

It is interesting to note that this AMD Eng Sample (Opteron 6220?) is clocked at 2600 MHz, whereas the 8 core model at the Gateway's site was clocked at 3000 MHz (I said was clocked because the page at Gateway's site has been removed).

It appears as if the clock rates of both the desktop and server Bulldozer have been decreased so as to keep the silicon within the thermal envelope.


----------



## baltar

Well.. despite everything, at least they priced the 8150 to $230... unlike shopblt when they had it for 260...

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...n-sandy-bridge

Whether that's true or not remains to be seen...


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shahzad7*


I know Bulldozer supports 1866 RAM, but that's about $80 on newegg and 1600 is $50, is more economical to 1600? Is their a major speed difference between 1866 and 1600?


It is completely application dependent. Different apps have different memory requirements.


----------



## flashtest

Not directly about Bulldozer - more about the silence we are getting from AMD:

by by Jarred Walton @Anandtech 20/09/2011

"This has been the first laptop with AMD switchable graphics that I've had a chance to actually review, and it hasn't impressed me as much as I would like. I can't say I'm really surprised, as I've been trying to get my hands on such a laptop since the HP Envy 14 launched. If it worked perfectly and could match NVIDIA's Optimus, I imagine AMD and/or their partners would have been pushing it into reviewers' hands a lot more."

Guess this is the new AMD CEO's politic, if it is worse than the competition just keep people/reviewers unaware as long as possible and hope for uninformed purchases.

Well, they will compensate again the lack of performance with prices *if those are correct* - sad, was hoping to see a performance winner here - but noticing the lack of bells and whistles i guess not.

Edit: Link to Article 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4839/m...s-technology/8


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Anything new yet?


I checked back in here after about 20 hours.

15 new pages.
0 new info.
0 new CPU announcements.

BTW, I did see on Tweaktown that they quoted a site, which had quoted that Domainhaberwhatevernameitis site, that it's supposedly October 12th.

The rumors go on...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

"IF" it does occur on Oct 12th, can we can expect benchmarks that day or on the 13th?


----------



## blabla125

hey jf im am not asking when the release date is i am simply asking do you have a date planned or will it be released when it is ready?


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


hey jf im am not asking when the release date is i am simply asking do you have a date planned or will it be released when it is ready?


This one I can answer - yes, AMD has a date planned.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


hey jf im am not asking when the release date is i am simply asking *do you have a date planned* or will it be released when it is ready?


No, they will release it before it's ready









JF is going out on a date? He can't...he's too tied up in the Bulldozer release date secrecy conspiracy.


----------



## Darkpriest667

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/20845/...ght/index.html

They're shooting at oct 12

Which would be a wednesday


----------



## Benz

21 days from now... If it's even true. Getting tired of waiting.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I'm not even sure I want a bulldozer CPU anymore, it's releasing so late in the year it's already to the point where "wait for x" comes into play.

At this point I really just want AMD to release it so all the bickering over almost no information will end.


----------



## Canis-X

Here ya go....we can vote our speculation now....LOL

Poll: Gauging Bulldozer's performance prospects


----------



## flashtest

Yep, people hoping it is a fail are either scared that their recently bought i7 CPU will be slower ... which ofc it won't - guess what megahertz and speed stay the same - games will run at the same FPS with an i7 no matter if Bull is a flip or a flop - 
the only change is you can't brag how AMD 'sucks' to AMD fanboys (like me) - but if you are scared of that you have other more serious issues









A good chip from AMD can be only good for the consumer - cheaper parts - even if you own a 2600 now - the next time you are upgrading your girlfriend's PC - you can add an extra SSD or a 2700 for the price difference that a good bulldozer would enforce.

Sadly the signals we are getting from AMD are not hinting at anything good for now.


----------



## blabla125

what i hope is that the prices are about 200-300 dollars and its way better than 2600k so then intel lowers their prices ALOT


----------



## Blackops_2

I just want more speed. I've been with wolfdale/yorkfield/deneb for almost four years now, it's time to step up to the nehalem level of performance and above.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15015918*
> I'm not even sure I want a bulldozer CPU anymore, it's releasing so late in the year it's already to the point where "wait for x" comes into play.
> 
> At this point I really just want AMD to release it so all the bickering over almost no information will end.


You and me both Balla. I have a severe case of wanting to upgrade, and have been hoping AMD can give me a platform that not only gives me the same/better gaming performance while allowing me to rack up some serious folding ppd. I do plan on getting a CPU with more cores/HT as I have software that I will be working with in the future that could use the extra horsepower, but it looks like by the time BD is released, I will have more options that may end up being more competitive.


----------



## Benz

I just wish John could confirm this.

http://www.techpowerup.com/152390/AMD-FX-Processor-Prices-Lower-Than-Expected.html

But he probably can't.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15016298*
> I just wish John could confirm this.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/152390/AMD-FX-Processor-Prices-Lower-Than-Expected.html
> 
> But he probably can't.


The source is Donanimhaber. That's an official denial right there.


----------



## sumadinac82

AMD Bulldozer *rumored* price and release date. http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-official-price-and-release-date-46209/


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumadinac82;15016586*
> AMD Bulldozer *rumored* price and release date. http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-official-price-and-release-date-46209/


That's sourced from Donanimhaber like all the rest. "Official" it is not. If it were official, it would appear on this page at AMD. As you can see it does not.


----------



## flashtest

Erm, am i missing something or that looks as legit as the bitmap that was circulating a few pages back (you just need to update it typing 3 times official beneath)

No Link, no source - only one "according to Donanimhaber" at page 2...


----------



## Shahzad7

The first suspected price for bulldozer was $299 or something along those lines, almost the price of the i7-2600k.

If Bulldozer were to be on par with the 2600k, one would probably just pick one brand over the other (and lately, Intel is more present in the minds of most consumers) making the decision hard on consumers + Intel can give a price cut more easily/readily taking away even more consumers from AMD. However, the new suspected price ($249.99 or $269.99?) gives AMD an advantage and would likely compete with Intel's i7-2600k much better.

That's just my 2 cents, no source or anything.


----------



## sumadinac82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15016641*
> That's sourced from Donanimhaber like all the rest. "Official" it is not. If it were official, it would appear on this page at AMD. As you can see it does not.


Quote from the web page: official release date and price have been released by AMD.


----------



## jck

AMD Press Releases Page

If it were official, it would be on the news release page that hokiealumnus specified, or it would be a press release.

It is on neither of AMD's official pages, nor has anyone provided a verifiable AMD correspondence stating such information.


----------



## hokiealumnus

^^^ What jck said.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumadinac82;15016737*
> Quote from the web page: official release date and price have been released by AMD.


Please show us where they source that, other than Donanimhaber. AMD has not released those under NDA. The NDA does not expire until the release date, which is not today. If it was official, you'd have the sites under NDA screaming it from the rooftops.


----------



## radaja

the one who shall not be named posted an Email from AMD showing oct 12th with prices?

but he probably photoshopped it as well


----------



## sumadinac82

if my post is fake news then i am sorry,got exitet about it. if its the real deal then i am happy that i can share it whit you. Btw they updated the article done on 26.july here is the link http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/ and quote from the page: Now AMD has officially announced
that the release date is Mid October
(October 12). Also AMD Bulldozer
Processor's official prices are also been
released by AMD.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumadinac82;15016964*
> if my post is fake news then i am sorry,got exitet about it. if its the real deal then i am happy that i can share it whit you. Btw they updated the article done on 26.july here is the link http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/ and quote from the page: Now AMD has officially announced
> that the release date is Mid October
> (October 12). Also AMD Bulldozer
> Processor's official prices are also been
> released by AMD.


It's not "fake" per se', a web site did say that about the Zambezi release, but it's most certainly not official. It's just a poor choice of words. I'm not jaded enough (yet) to think they said that just to get the extra pageviews, as opposed to saying something more like "Donanimhaber has stated..." or something like that. Unfortunately they just didn't make a wise choice of phrasing when forming their post.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15016720*
> The first suspected price for bulldozer was $299 or something along those lines, almost the price of the i7-2600k.
> 
> If Bulldozer were to be on par with the 2600k, one would probably just pick one brand over the other (and lately, Intel is more present in the minds of most consumers) making the decision hard on consumers + Intel can give a price cut more easily/readily taking away even more consumers from AMD. However, the new suspected price ($249.99 or $269.99?) gives AMD an advantage and would likely compete with Intel's i7-2600k much better.
> 
> That's just my 2 cents, no source or anything.


I'd disagree that one would pick Intel because it is present in the minds of most consumers. When BD is released it will be the newest processor out there, and if the consumer wasn't an enthusiast or didn't know any better they would probably pick the 8 core over the 4 core.

I can see the Dell customization option "AMD FX8150 8-Core 3.6Ghz +$2XX" and "Intel i7 2600k Quad Core 3.4Ghz +$2XX" I'd go with the 8-Core 3.6Ghz regardless of the brand.

We as fanboi's will stick to our brands, although Intel definitely stole some away with SB, and rightfully so. SB series chips are outstanding for the $$.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I honestly dont think we will see bulldozer the 12th. I am thinking more november myself


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15016298*
> I just wish John could confirm this.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/152390/AMD-FX-Processor-Prices-Lower-Than-Expected.html
> 
> But he probably can't.


Why don't you ask your cousin?

Seeing as DonanimWhatever is the source, I'd say it's not reliable.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15018025*
> According to BigCactus it is releasing Sept 26th. Wonder what he has to say about this Oct 12th news (which I think it is only coming about that it is Oct 12, b/c that is when the contest ends)


i too believe the sept 26th date,but it will be for the interlagos/valencia launch

*Disclaimer:* just my opinion


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15018868*
> i too believe the sept 26th date,but it will be for the interlagos/valencia launch
> 
> *Disclaimer:* just my opinion


It would be cool to see Interlagos on the 26th, but I have to wonder if they can get it out that fast (I certainly want them to). They only announced that Interlagos was shipping on the 7th.

Considering AMD announced that Magny-Cours was shipping on 22 February 2010, and that the launch was on 29 March, I wouldn't be surprised if they need a few more weeks before Interlagos launches.

Of course this logic assumes that AMD announced shipping basically as soon as it happened in both cases, and that minimal changes in shipping logistics have happened since Q1 2010.


----------



## Massimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15017182*
> I'd disagree that one would pick Intel because it is present in the minds of most consumers. When BD is released it will be the newest processor out there, and if the consumer wasn't an enthusiast or didn't know any better they would probably pick the 8 core over the 4 core.
> 
> I can see the Dell customization option "AMD FX8150 8-Core 3.6Ghz +$2XX" and "Intel i7 2600k Quad Core 3.4Ghz +$2XX" I'd go with the 8-Core 3.6Ghz regardless of the brand.
> 
> We as fanboi's will stick to our brands, although Intel definitely stole some away with SB, and rightfully so. SB series chips are outstanding for the $$.


That is a good point. How do we all see this? Obviously when you go to task manager AMD 8150 or Intel SB will show 8 threads. But obviously Intel is 4 physical and "4 virtual" while AMD is 8 physical.

So when we speak cores do we only refer to the physical core? I ask because Intel could very easily get someone like Dell to sell their products as an 8 core with 4 physical and 4 virtual to the general consumer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Locked pending clean-up.


----------



## pioneerisloud

52 posts have been removed from post 5961 and onwards. Consider this your guys' warning. If I see anymore posts with OBR, off topic, rude, or anything else that's blatant disregard for our ToS, I will infract on site.

Thread re-opened.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*
> According to BigCactus it is releasing Sept 26th. Wonder what he has to say about this Oct 12th news (which I think it is only coming about that it is Oct 12, b/c that is when the contest ends)


i too believe the sept 26th date,but it will be for the interlagos/valencia launch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15018868*
> i too believe the sept 26th date,but it will be for the interlagos/valencia launch
> 
> *Disclaimer:* just my opinion


Let's see, I think that if it doesn't release on the 26th I l have to sell my desktop and will never own another desktop again after that. That wasn't a good move by me. I will miss desktops if I'm wrong.









I also stated if it doesn't release on sept. 26 I won't post on OCN AMD Blog thread any more as well. Not big of a deal since there would be no reason to since I could never own a desktop again.

The desktop part is the biggest gamble when I made that statement. I will be forced to use tablets or laptops.









I'm pretty sure if all is well, sept. 26th will be the day, so no worries.


----------



## JF-AMD

Thank you.

And interlagos will launch in Q4. I have said that several times. September 26th is a tuesday. And that is pretty much all I know about it. I plan to ride my bike that night, but I do that every tuesday night, there is nothing special.


----------



## adadk

You also said:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


I'm not selling. *If pigs fly* and bulldozer doesn't launch on that day, then I will be. GTX470 also makes a great heater...just in time for winter.










Nice loophole you threw yourself.









Five more days people, five more days. It won't kill you.


----------



## Canis-X

JF.....can you say if interlagos and zambezi will release at the same time or not?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


JF.....can you say if interlagos and zambezi will release at the same time or not?


good question,if server started shipping on the 7th and will launch Q4
the client will not launch until after shipping begins,so if shipping starts
sometime in oct then it could be until nov for launch? Oh well i guess we wait


----------



## 66racer

So now is it oct? or is there still hope for sept?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


So now is it oct? or is there still hope for sept?


Theres has been no solid date given thus far, so the answer is still, unknown.


----------



## Canis-X

Interesting post here.....

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4954993

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lokinhow*


http://www.criminalcafe.com/showthre...ll=1#post64953

Don't know if you guys know him. But he's a very respectable brazillian enthusiast.

He says "FX8150 is faster than any variation of the preview uarch (faster than any K10) and in some few cases its equal or faster than the i7 2600K. But on avarage it's slower than the 2600K, that's why the price droped to U$244".


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


So now is it oct? or is there still hope for sept?


Q4 is all we know


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Thank you.

And interlagos will launch in Q4. I have said that several times. September 26th is a tuesday. And that is pretty much all I know about it. I plan to ride my bike that night, but I do that every tuesday night, there is nothing special.


Uh oh, pretty slick there. "September 26 is a tuesday" he states...meaning launch is really September 27...because September 26 is a monday.









That or my calendar is wrong.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Uh oh, pretty slick there. "September 26 is a tuesday" he states...meaning launch is really September 27...because September 26 is a monday.









That or my calendar is wrong.


It's not launching in September, everyone has been telling you that.


----------



## sumonpathak

ok....i missed around 50 pages....did i miss anything important?


----------



## Shahzad7

Also, if you break a year into four parts.. (91.25 days / quarter), quarter 4 technically starts on October 2nd (or if you want to be really specific, when 3/4 of the day on October 1st is done).

So, these Sept.26 launch dates are probably a die, October 13th on the other hand.. one can hope!


----------



## SCollins

It gets here when it gets here. I would prefer it hurry up, but with llano selling so well I wonder if the APU's are eating up fab capacity at GloFo. Plus GPU is new for GloFo so there could be some trouble with APU parts clogging the pipeline. Only upside is that BD got more time to bake. Never a bad thing.


----------



## Schmuckley

nope..nothing new..no bulldozer..lotsa bickering a couple pages back..wheeee


----------



## BigCactus

Someone ask how good bulldozer would be for BF3. This is tough to say since it all depends on the programming side. The better the programming, the better the game will run. I see no reason why BF3 shouldn't run well on my sig rig at 1080p max settings. But of course it won't, because it's going to be a port.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


So now is it oct? or is there still hope for sept?


Even Oct is uncertain, it could be Dec 31 for all we know.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shahzad7*


Also, if you break a year into four parts.. (91.25 days / quarter), quarter 4 technically starts on October 2nd (or if you want to be really specific, when 3/4 of the day on October 1st is done).

So, these Sept.26 launch dates are probably a die, October 13th on the other hand.. one can hope!


Mid October makes sense for Interlagos (giving 5 weeks from shipping to launch, similar to Magny-Cours).

The time frame for the Zambezi launch is a real guessing game though. I was feeling rather pessimistic about it, considering that AMD hasn't announced that Zambezi is shipping yet. OTOH, I did some searching, and it seems that AMD doesn't tend to announce the shipping of it's client parts as often as for their server parts. Obviously they announced the shipping of Llano, but I could find no similar announcement for Thuban, Deneb, or Agena. (if someone has a link, please forgive me for being daft).

It's going to be very interesting to see when they get Zambezi out the door. I seem to remember them stating that Interlagos would launch first. If Interlagos launches in early/mid october as I suspect, I'd guess that a late october or potentially november launch would make sense for Zambezi.


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



ok....i missed around 50 pages....did i miss anything important?


Nope you missed nothing...


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


But of course it won't, because it's going to be a port.










Its no port.


----------



## FurryCreatures

I just hope AMD makes these worth the wait.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FurryCreatures*


I just hope AMD makes these worth the wait.


Why do you think I'm waiting so long? If they didn't, I would've gone Intel by now.


----------



## dafour

I have some time left,the Q6600 is still good enough atm.I hope amd will suprise us,i really do.


----------



## Cyclonic

So its the 22th Another fake date busted


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


So its the 22th Another fake date busted










You shouldn't say that till 9 AM CDT / 10 AM EDT / 7 AM PDT / 8 AM MDT


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You shouldn't say that till 9 AM CDT / 10 AM EDT / 7 AM PDT / 8 AM MDT


+1 to that.


----------



## Chuckclc

Why would the 22nd be a day? What useless website did you get that day from? Wouldnt it come out on a Tuesday? i am looking at Tuesdays. 9/27, 10/4, 10/11, 10/18

Quote:



Why do you think I'm waiting so long? If they didn't, I would've gone Intel by now.


We can look at it this way. The Intel 2500K will still be around after BD is released. And it will not go up in price. So it is still an option no matter what happens. The only thing these delays has caused me to do, is wait and see actual benches before buying. At first i was like many others, I was going to get it at launch. Now that would be just plain stupid.


----------



## Roedi

The first Bulldozer FX-8120 processors shipped today









http://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/24706...aag-verscheept


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


The first Bulldozer FX-8120 processors shipped today









http://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/24706...aag-verscheept


What does this mean exactly? We might see our first benches?


----------



## BigCactus

wut. todai?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


What does this mean exactly? We might see our first benches?


it means launch date today!


----------



## Roedi

I did a google translate :

From reliable anonymous source has informed that as of today Hardware.info the first AMD FX-8120 Bulldozer processors ready to be made in the European distribution centers for shipment. In the preview we have already discussed that the bulldozer is based on a new processor architecture. AMD architecture has again completely from the ground up, and the architecture is in fact the successor to the K8 architecture in the Athlon 64 processor was introduced. .

The new architecture is completely modular. AMD itself speaks well of modules and not cores. To do a comparison can, however, that every module is roughly two cores. A module has two segments in order to handle integer numbers, each completely separate from each other and with its own scheduler, four processing units and an L1 DCache. Each module has a shared L2 cache 2 MB, and each processor has an additional shared L3 cache of 8 MB. The handling of integer numbers is done the same way for each module as a dual-core processor with two cores.

For floating point numbers per module is however a segment with a floating point scheduler only two 128-bit processing units that also can be combined to 256-bit AVX instructions to process. AMD processor is also designed so that each part can process two instructions simultaneously, so as to Intel Hyper-Threading can process two instructions simultaneously.

The support of several other instruction sets has been improved. AMD has developed its own apart from the SSE 5.0 instruction set was planned but first used in its place all the instruction sets that Intel currently uses, such as SSE 4.1, SSE 4.2 and AVX. In addition, the AMD Bulldozer CPUs with four operands count, the current Intel processors, with only three instructions at a time count. AMD processors can simply bulldozer at one time A = B x C + D calculate, while Intel are two calculations required for three operands: First A x B = C then A = B + D.

Starting today, the first processor AMD FX-8120 prepared for distribution and the first order would also be sent today. The FX-8120 consists of four modules, or eight integer processing units and four floating point processors. This is the most common integer instructions are interpreted as an octa-core. The clock frequency of the processor is 3.1 GHz clock frequency and the Turbo is 4.0 GHz.

It is now known that the AMD FX-8120 processors definitely going to be shipped in cans.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


What does this mean exactly? We might see our first benches?


Cool the Dutchies got first real news again


----------



## Roedi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


it means launch date today!


Nope


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


Nope










Wel if they are ready for shipment, AMD better lift the NDA and let the press givf detailed benches, then some random warehouse boy that steal 1 and benches it


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


it means launch date today!


Really? Are you sure? This would be good timing for me. Give me some benches over the weekend and i buy first thing next week if good enough.


----------



## Roedi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Really? Are you sure? This would be good timing for me. Give me some benches over the weekend and i buy first thing next week if good enough.


Its not launchday, its shipmentday


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Roedi*


Its not launchday, its shipmentday










Thats sounds good too. So that means someone is gonna have their paws on these things. Which means benches right? Real benches. No more Super pi fake crap. Games, and stuff.


----------



## Chuckclc

Im not going to lie, my heart rate is up a bit right now. Someone needs to clear this up for me. What is going on?


----------



## Roedi

Read the google translate post from the link : http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post15023640


----------



## Chuckclc

Well this also makes more since. http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bull...se-date-46209/


----------



## HK_47

according that link the release date is october 12th.....

Quote:



Finally the official release date and price have been released by AMD. As per the recently exposed rumor, it is Q4 2011, most probably mid- October . It coincides with the official release date revealed by AMD, which is October 12, 2011.


nothing on AMD's website verifies this information


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



most probably mid- October


Yeah, i posted that link as news, then upon harder review saw my quoted section above. Meh, who knows.

Quote:



nothing on AMD's website verifies this information


It is clear they aren't going to say anything.


----------



## flashtest

Yea but AMD's site was always out of date







they have the "late summer 2011" slide still up.
I wonder will AMD do with reviewers what they did to system board manufacturers 
(You guys bring those 9xx out - and wait for a CPU for them)

If they ship now and reviewers have a NDA for 2 more weeks it will be fun how we are going to read warehouse staff reviews earlier than professional ones








Netherlands makes a perfect logistic spot for shipping for the EU - if you are not assembling in Dresden that is


----------



## Megacharge

Nice, so we will finally be getting some real reviews soon. Sounds good to me.


----------



## tvr

Now watch BD crush 2600k, well I don't think it will but WOW if it did AMD has play a blinder, now come on warehouse clockers show us what this baby can do


----------



## mad87645

im hoping theyre shipping out today or soon, so we can see some real benchies of this thing. I might have to delay my upgrade if it will be released soon (since it got delayed again, ive decided ill upgrade to a phenom and let AMD release it when they release it)


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



AMD release it when they release it


Well that has been their motto so far. "We Will Release it, When we release it!"


----------



## blabla125

guys if this is true it may mean that bigcactus was right omf omf


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


guys if this is true it may mean that bigcactus was right omf omf

















UUUHHH, yeah but we are still in Q 3. AMD said Q 4. Also if its shipping somewhere today I highly doubt it will be anywhere by the 26th.


----------



## flashtest

I personally disagree, if it was their motto all along it would be ok,
But no - they released Info for us to expect a late summer launch together with mobos so ppl got grounded waiting for the new CPUs , after that just informed us that profit margins @ Interlagos are greater and they are shifting production to it, and to keep the rumor mill running just threw in some engineering samples for a OC contest without any benches.


----------



## Allen86

Either way, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait, they may or not be better than intels newer chips but atleast they'll finally have some new CPU's to choose from! lol


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


UUUHHH, yeah but we are still in Q 3. AMD said Q 4. Also if its shipping somewhere today I highly doubt it will be anywhere by the 26th.


1. i said he may be right

2. if its released not all shops would have it so if they only shipped to newegg for example theres a slight chance

3.i know they said q4 but you never know its amd's bulldozer dates.Period. they change constantly.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I personally disagree, if it was their motto all along it would be ok,
But no - they released Info for us to expect a late summer launch together with mobos so ppl got grounded waiting for the new CPUs , after that just informed us that profit margins @ Interlagos are greater and they are shifting production to it, and to keep the rumor mill running just threw in some engineering samples for a OC contest without any benches.


Did that come from AMD though? As hard as i have been on them, I have never heard an official date from them or even a time of year. Now if they do not release a competitive chip within the next month or so then not only will they lose me but probably the majority of their sales. And they will get what is coming to them, but i still think they may turn up.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Did that come from AMD though? As hard as i have been on them, I have never heard an official date from them or even a time of year.


Hi, sorry forgot to post the link - you can also find it in amd.com - somewhere under official press releases.

http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/images...AL_website.pdf

Edit : Page 6


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Im not going to lie, my heart rate is up a bit right now. Someone needs to clear this up for me. What is going on?


This made me laugh. I dunno why... I'll blame it on the fact it's early and I'm still out of it. If it's true they are shipping, maybe we will get benches soon. That'd be good enough for me.


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


This made me laugh. I dunno why... I'll blame it on the fact it's early and I'm still out of it. If it's true they are shipping, maybe we will get benches soon. That'd be good enough for me.


Haha yeah I had to go back through the last 4 pages to get updated. 
I think what flashtest said earlier also applies though. If you estimate at least 3 biz days for it to get to reviewers...another biz week for reviews to occur...that's easily 2 weeks right there. Which actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. AMD can't ship these things out in October, b/c then reviewers wouldn't have enough time to bench/review it in time for Oct. 13th. Of course that date is also all based on rumors too...but it's the best we have.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Yea but AMD's site was always out of date







they have the "late summer 2011" slide still up.
I wonder will AMD do with reviewers what they did to system board manufacturers 
(You guys bring those 9xx out - and wait for a CPU for them)

*If they ship now and reviewers have a NDA for 2 more weeks it will be fun *how we are going to read warehouse staff reviews earlier than professional ones








Netherlands makes a perfect logistic spot for shipping for the EU - if you are not assembling in Dresden that is










PS - great avatar flashtest.


----------



## Schmuckley

is that dana plato?


----------



## RAMP4NT

Yes!!! Finally! Now all we need is for a warehouse worker in the Netherlands to come through for us and post some benches!!!


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*









Yes!!! Finally! Now all we need is for a warehouse worker in the Netherlands to come through for us and post some benches!!!


i realy dont know why but that sounds funny


----------



## LesPaulLover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;15025411*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!!! Finally! Now all we need is for a warehouse worker in the Netherlands to come through for us and post some benches!!!


Maybe julian assange will finally steal some information that ANYONE actually cares about!!!!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15023636*
> it means launch date today!


So BigCactus, you still standing by your Sept 26th prediction?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;15023494*
> You shouldn't say that till 9 AM CDT / 10 AM EDT / 7 AM PDT / 8 AM MDT


Now we can say it


----------



## Canis-X




----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15024078*
> UUUHHH, yeah but we are still in Q 3. AMD said Q 4. Also if its shipping somewhere today I highly doubt it will be anywhere by the 26th.


Actually, where did AMD officially say, "we will launch Zambezi desktop in Q4"?

The ONLY statement that I can tell states Q4 for desktop is a comment post on the bulldozer blog from JF-AMD. AMD has stated NO time frame for launch of DESKTOP bulldozer. Unless I missed something.....

Edit: And I believe that through his comments on here, JF said that's what he HEARD, hence it is not necessarily official


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15026275*
> Actually, where did AMD officially say, "we will launch Zambezi desktop in Q4"?
> 
> The ONLY statement that I can tell states Q4 for desktop is a comment post on the bulldozer blog from JF-AMD. AMD has stated NO time frame for launch of DESKTOP bulldozer. Unless I missed something.....
> 
> Edit: And I believe that through his comments on here, JF said that's what he HEARD, hence it is not necessarily official


This sounds pretty definitive to me....

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/comment-page-1/#comments
Quote:


> John Fruehe September 7, 2011
> 
> Interlagos is a server part, there is no desktop variant. The client version of Bulldozer is Zambezi and it will launch in Q4.


I would like a little more clarification on what "launch" actually means though.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15026555*
> This sounds pretty definitive to me....
> 
> http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/comment-page-1/#comments
> 
> I would like a little more clarification on what "launch" actually means though.


That's exactly the comment I mentioned in my above post. It came from JF-AMD.

He later on this board posts this in response:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14860225*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;14859204*
> Ok. I guess Q4 then...
> 
> JF you can stand by your comment in the blog, right? Zambezi is officially set for Q4?
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I was told.
Click to expand...

As I said, none of this was NOT an official AMD statement it was John relaying what he was told (presumably by someone from the client side, but we don't really know) And as we all know:
Quote:


> John Fruehe is the Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD. *His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD's positions, strategies or opinions.* Links to third party sites, and references to third party trademarks, are provided for convenience and illustrative purposes only. Unless explicitly stated, AMD is not responsible for the contents of such links, and no third party endorsement of AMD or any of its products is implied.


----------



## Canis-X

Well as he is the "Director of Product Marketing for Server, Embedded and FireStream products at AMD", he doesn't make any decisions on the server side either.....meaning he is also "told" about release related information on that side as well. IDK, I am just being optimistic about the whole situation. I take in as much info as I can and wait....LOL


----------



## flashtest

A little Out of Char... erm Topic http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Joe-Marini-Twitter-WP7-nokia-BUILD,news-12617.html

You can't blame JF for not giving us info if he is not allowed to - it would be at least to say unprofessional - and i am really thankful for his presence in the forums and clarifications/explanations when he can, that said i am as already mentioned quite unhappy with the PR AMD is doing with Bulldozer.
(Next thing they hire Apotheker and move to server only products







)

Edit: Oh i see they made the AMD cores recognized as 1/2 bug private in bugzilla
bogomips were never a indicator for performance, so why even bother...


----------



## radaja

they finally changed the winner selection time period in the "Operation Sporpius' contest.
it used to still say Sept 9th but now it is Oct 17th,so theres that?
Quote:


> 6. Winner Selection: Sponsor will select one hundred five (105) potential winners at random on or about *October 17, 2011 ("Drawing Date")* from all eligible entries received during the Entry Period. Winner does not need to be present at the drawing to win. Limit one prize per entrant regardless of the number of entries submitted. The first five potential winners selected are eligible for a top tier prize. The subsequent 100 potential winners selected are eligible for a second tier prize. If multiple entries from one entrant are selected in the random drawing, all but the first of such entries will be ineligible and alternate potential winners will be selected at random.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15026860*
> A little Out of Char... erm Topic http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Joe-Marini-Twitter-WP7-nokia-BUILD,news-12617.html
> 
> You can't blame JF for not giving us info if he is not allowed to - it would be at least to say unprofessional - and i am really thankful for his presence in the forums and clarifications/explanations when he can, that said i am as already mentioned quite unhappy with the PR AMD is doing with Bulldozer.
> (*Next thing they hire Apotheker and move to server only products*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Edit: Oh i see they made the AMD cores recognized as 1/2 bug private in bugzilla
> bogomips were never a indicator for performance, so why even bother...


Don't give them any ideas! LOL


----------



## jck

Boy, it'd be sweet if I won one of those 8150s.


----------



## purpleannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15026555*
> This sounds pretty definitive to me....
> 
> http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/09/07/the-start-of-a-new-era/comment-page-1/#comments
> 
> I would like a little more clarification on what "launch" actually means though.


The blogs also said "we expect to launch in Q2". And 60-90 days etc, blah, blah,blah.

I can't believe anyones still bothering to listen to AMD, they've lead everyone up the garden path, they don't deserve anyones devotion.


----------



## Darkpriest667

They dont release dates but that computex slide show clearly states

ZAMBEZI 60 to 90 days from today.

MISSED THAT ONE DIDNT WE!?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15027591*
> They dont release dates but that computex slide show clearly states
> 
> ZAMBEZI 60 to 90 days from today.
> 
> MISSED THAT ONE DIDNT WE!?


but 60 days from today is November 21, 2011.








and 90 days from today is December 21, 2011.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15027683*
> but 90 days from today is November 21, 2011.


And 60 days would be....


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;15027779*
> And 60 days would be....


59 days from tomorrow

LOL Fixed


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15027683*
> but 60 days from today is November 21, 2011.


oh that was a sept 22 slide they were showing june.. Silly me... confusing facts with the independent variables.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> For all these questions, there comes an answer, AMD Vishera along with Volan platform, where Volan means steering wheel in Slavic languages. (Probably they might have named it to denote its gaming performance). As Bulldozer is targeted against Intel Core i5, it's the job of AMD Vishera to compete against upcoming Intel Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge processors.


Source


----------



## Benz

Volan platform haha, steering wheel in my language.


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15027006*
> they finally changed the winner selection time period in the "Operation Sporpius' contest.
> it used to still say Sept 9th but now it is Oct 17th,so theres that?


Hah man I've only entered once for that contest. Good find though.


----------



## catharsis

at this rate bulldozer will be released in q1 2012. I think intel just gained a new customer.


----------



## Tweeky

We have already heard enough amount of rumors about release date and price of AMD Bulldozer. It seems that those rumors are bit tired to generate another one. Finally the official release date and price have been released by AMD. As per the recently exposed rumor, it is Q4 2011, most probably mid- October . It coincides with the official release date revealed by AMD, which is October 12, 2011. For some countries, it may be October 13, 2011

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/computers/new-amd-bulldozer-release-date-rumored-to-be-october-12/6753


----------



## flashtest

Via fudzilla via donanim by no means official


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15029631*
> Via fudzilla via donanim by no means official


Pretty much the worst combo possible lol.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I don't understand why AMD would market it as a gaming platform, shouldn't they be going after the other spectrum with this design?

Why not market it as a low cost, server/multithreading chip instead?


----------



## Canis-X

Uh-Oh....

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/22/a...-bergman-gone/

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/21697

http://hardocp.com/news/2011/09/22/a..._cloud_mystery

Quote:



*AMD Fires Rick Bergman Under Cloud of Mystery*

Rick Bergman, Senior Vice President and General Manager at AMD has been fired according to HardOCP sources. AMD has given no reason as to why the well seasoned Bergman was leaving his position. It was told to us that Bergman had interviewed for the just-filled CEO position months back at AMD and had been turned down. Since then we have been lead to understand that AMD has lowered the boom on Bergman for not managing the GlobalFoundries relationship properly. Sources tell us that GlobalFoundries is simply not up to the task of supplying AMD its needed parts and Bergman is first in line when it comes to the responsibility of making sure AMD is sourced properly. We understand that Bergman will be the first of the dominoes to fall.

Rick Bergman is senior vice president and general manager of AMD's products group, with responsibility for delivering AMD's computing platforms and managing the graphics and microprocessor product development teams.

I first met Rick a bit over 10 years ago. Rick was a hell of a nice guy and we wish him the best.


http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corpo...k-bergman.aspx

Quote:



*Executive Biography *

Rick Bergman
Senior Vice President and General Manager, AMD

Rick Bergman is senior vice president and general manager of AMD's products group, with responsibility for delivering AMD's computing platforms and managing the graphics and microprocessor product development teams.

Bergman's previous role at AMD was senior vice president and general manager, Graphics Product Group (GPG), which he held from October 2006 to May 2009. In that role Bergman was responsible for the worldwide management of AMD's discrete graphics products, including the company's industry-leading ATI Radeon™ family of graphics processors for the desktop, workstation, notebook, multimedia and game console markets. In that capacity, Bergman oversaw business operations, engineering and marketing, as well as iconic achievements such as the first DirectXÂ® 10.1 GPU, the first TeraFLOPS-class GPU and the first GPUs on 65nm, 55nm, and 40nm process nodes.

Bergman came to AMD via the acquisition of ATI in October 2006. He joined ATI in January 2001 from S3 Graphics, a division of SonicBlue Inc., where he served as chief operating officer.

Over the past 15 years, Bergman has served in a number of marketing and management roles within the North American technology industry, including vice president of marketing at Exponential Inc. and marketing manager at Texas Instruments, Inc. He began his engineering career at IBM Corp.

Bergman holds a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering from the University of Michigan and a master's degree in business administration from the University of Colorado.


----------



## adadk

Dammit Canis I was just about to post that.


----------



## Hueristic

Looks Like Pre-Order *IS* the smart thing.


----------



## breenemeister

Firing the guy that you blame for not managing production properly pretty much says it all. They can't wait to get Bulldozer out and they're pretty ticked off about it.


----------



## mav451

SA's take was fairly negative compared to the others. Do they more know than they are letting on? Not really sure what to think of this...


----------



## catharsis

Why would you fire Berg? Isn't this Global Foundires fault?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;15030436*
> Why would you fire Berg? Isn't this Global Foundires fault?


It could be Glo Fo's fault,maybe his too,who knows. Because he was production manager,and things didn't go right,he takes the blame? AMD kinda shot themselves in the foot there.


----------



## catharsis

Maybe the rumors of yields being poor are true and thats the real reason AMD hasn't released the chip yet.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


It could be Glo Fo's fault,maybe his too,who knows. Because he was production manager,and things didn't go right,he takes the blame? AMD kinda shot themselves in the foot there.


Amd may need to change their business strategy and think about vertical integration.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

BigCactus - you still sticking to your Sept 26th date?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adadk*


Dammit Canis I was just about to post that.


LOL....sorry man.

I am more than a little worried based off of Charlie's (S/A) take on the situation.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


LOL....sorry man.

I am more than a little worried based off of Charlie's (S/A) take on the situation.


Charlie is much more accurate than most give him credit for, And at least he admits he's Semi-accurate.


----------



## radaja

JF does this mean you have a new boss now? or is the server marketing dept you head independant from product managment?

Quote:



AMD also said Paul Struhsaker has joined the company to lead its newly formed commercial-business division. He will oversee product management and roadmap planning for *AMD's server, high-performance computing* and embedded products.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Amd may need to change their business strategy and think about vertical integration.


You know Global Foundries used to be a part of AMD, right?


----------



## catharsis

Yup, AMD dumped all their fab ownership.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


You know Global Foundries used to be a part of AMD, right?


"Use to be" being the key words.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Yup, AMD dumped all their fab ownership.


Last I checked, they had like 14% according to several articles.


----------



## cook

Just a speculation but after looking at the proposed release schedule on fud, I cannot help but thing that the FX x4 4170 will unlock to an octo.


----------



## Brutuz

Unless AMD start laser cutting cores, its possible.


----------



## ahriman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *breenemeister*


Firing the guy that you blame for not managing production properly pretty much says it all. They can't wait to get Bulldozer out and they're pretty ticked off about it.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Why would you fire Berg? Isn't this Global Foundires fault?



Why are you saying he was fired? The articles more suggest he quit.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahriman*


Why are you saying he was fired? The articles more suggest he quit.



my sources are telling me he asked for a general idea of when zambezi was going to be shipped and launched and that query was responded to with "launch is at launch" at which point he tendered his resignation.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahriman*


Why are you saying he was fired? The articles more suggest he quit.


Yep, that's what this article I just read suggests.

Quote:



Bergman is leaving AMD to pursue a job opportunity at another company, according to an AMD spokesman. The spokesman declined to elaborate on Bergmanâ€™s plans, adding that he expects more details to emerge â€œin the coming weeks.â€


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-an...z-Unit-270291/


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahriman*


Why are you saying he was fired? The articles more suggest he quit.


http://hardocp.com/news/2011/09/22/a..._cloud_mystery


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


http://hardocp.com/news/2011/09/22/a..._cloud_mystery


Interesting. Who do we believe?

Does everything revolve around rumors and speculations with AMD?









Quote:



[speculation]
We know there are yield issues with Llano, and that likely means with Bulldozer as well. It would make sense with the ongoing delays of this year. 
[/speculation]


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Does everything revolve around rumors and speculations with AMD?










Sadly, yes.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Interesting. Who do we believe?

Does everything revolve around rumors and speculations with AMD?










Certainly would seem that way.


----------



## RAMP4NT

May I be the first to nominate JF-AMD for an immediate promotion?


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


May I be the first to nominate JF-AMD for an immediate promotion?










2nd JF!


----------



## pcclock

Do we know yet what the max Multiplier of the BD is?

I read on wiki that its 21x for the FX8150. I don't know if thats true though.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Do we know yet what the max Multiplier of the BD is?

I read on wiki that its 21x for the FX8150. I don't know if thats true though.


One would assume that would be for the 4.2GHz turbo multiplier. Considering that the FX parts are supposed to be unlocked like the current black editions they should have much higher multipliers than that. I think my 965 goes up to 30 or something. Sorry I don't know the exact number.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Do we know yet what the max Multiplier of the BD is?

I read on wiki that its 21x for the FX8150. I don't know if thats true though.


wiki is as reliable as DonanimWhatever.

We know it's at least 31.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Guys. Does anyone know if lenzfire is correct in saying that Bulldozer has an official release date?!








I need to know so that I may







!


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Guys. Does anyone know if lenzfire is correct in saying that Bulldozer has an official release date?!








I need to know so that I may







!


Nooo it's not 'official'









You'll know exactly when it's official. And if you don't I will shout at you on twitter just in case


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Nooo it's not 'official'









You'll know exactly when it's official. And if you don't I will shout at you on twitter just in case










How about you just tell me the release date now?








You can say it on twitter so no one else knows!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


May I be the first to nominate JF-AMD for an immediate promotion?










I would be the last person in the world for that position. I prefer to fly under the radar.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


Guys. Does anyone know if lenzfire is correct in saying that Bulldozer has an official release date?!








I need to know so that I may







!



Of course there is a launch date.


----------



## crshbndct

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


<snip>


is that bryan from LAS in your avatar?


----------



## blabla125

yah every day they just increase the date by 1 day









just jokes


----------



## flashtest

Sounds great, if it was his failure to manage production quantities with GloFo ,
Now they just need to also kick some of the guys behind this PR fiasco and bring the chips out and maybe we are going to see AMD shares back to May level


----------



## tvr

It's all fun and games maybe BD IS THAT GOOD that Intel will go bankrupt Haha


----------



## Canis-X

.....little more information on the "Executive Changes":

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/amd-announces-executive-changes-nyse-amd-1564629.htm


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15033884*
> do we know yet what the max multiplier of the bd is?
> 
> I read on wiki that its 21x for the fx8150. I don't know if thats true though.


31.5


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15033989*
> wiki is as reliable as DonanimWhatever.
> 
> We know it's at least 31.


Thats nice, than I won't have to mess around with the fsb and get into trouble with my memory.









Going on the fact that it would be better to use your multiplier versus fsb right? I hope that still applies.


----------



## StarDestroyer

did anything happen on the 16th ???

any more news on Oct 12-13 for desktop BD release, if thts the case when would the server chips be released

Hey AMD-JF, haven't you said server chips are releasing 1st?


----------



## hokiealumnus

Where do you get that 31.5 is the max multiplier? 31.0 was used for the WR run, but at least one of these is an unlocked chip. We don't know the max that I've seen. Where did you hear 31.5?


----------



## Canis-X

I remember either chew* or the other guy stating it in one of the videos.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15036693*
> Sounds great, if it was his failure to manage production quantities with GloFo ,
> Now they just need to also kick some of the guys behind this PR fiasco and bring the chips out and maybe we are going to see AMD shares back to May level


PR Fiasco? Pretty sure this isn't that big of a deal considering there is probably less than 5% of their customer base monitoring the release. The mobo manufacturers may be chomping at the bit bc they have boards they want to sell, but nothing that will affect their PR. Their sales over the past 6 months have taken a hit, but nothing on the PR front. Recently, their PR has been hurt more from not being able to find a CEO and other big players leaving. That's the type of stuff that the general public will see...


----------



## flashtest

http://vimeo.com/hardocp/amd-fx-8150-processor-overclocking around 6.50 min


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

slow news day on the AMD bulldozer Front.


----------



## Canis-X

Yeah, really! meh


----------



## jck

yep other than "today is not the launch" lol

I did get good news. My bankruptcy discharge will be in January, and my hearing in November. So, I will be able to get a Zambezi (fingers crossed) during the holiday shopping season...and hopefully by then, NewEgg will have it in combo with a nice 990FX-UD3 or Sabertooth.









Hopefully something good happens soon for you guys.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;15038973*
> yep other than "today is not the launch" lol
> 
> I did get good news. My bankruptcy discharge will be in January, and my hearing in November. So, I will be able to get a Zambezi (fingers crossed) during the holiday shopping season...and hopefully by then, NewEgg will have it in combo with a nice 990FX-UD3 or Sabertooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully something good happens soon for you guys.


Good to hear







Hope you get that combo you are looking for


----------



## Canis-X

Hmmm.....the one that shall not be named claims to have official (under embargo until Oct 12th) AMD Pressdeck slides with official bench results for Cinebench R11.5. He claims that he got them directly from AMD. :/


----------



## JDTreece

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15039591*
> Hmmm.....the one that shall not be named claims to have official (under embargo until Oct 12th) AMD Pressdeck slides with official bench results for Cinebench R11.5. He claims that he got them directly from AMD. :/


So, Voldemort is getting benches before everyone else, eh?


----------



## StepanPepan

About the published slides: they look like a draft. If is much more probable, that a draft leaks, than a final version. I do not believe they could have presented such slideshow with those typos!

That comparison with i5 is sad...


----------



## Canis-X

Typos?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Hmmm.....the one that shall not be named claims to have official (under embargo until Oct 12th) AMD Pressdeck slides with official bench results for Cinebench R11.5. He claims that he got them directly from AMD. :/


I just looked at them; they're so obviously fake it's not even funny.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Typos?


I see FX-B4150 and Etail Price.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I see FX-B4150 and Etail Price.


I see a picture of Cinebench running on an Intel Xeon in a slide about AMD FX's overclockability.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I just looked at them; they're so obviously fake it's not even funny.


They are (supposed to be) from the past event. There was surely a lot of people at this event, somebody should be able to indicate if they are fake or not.

BTW it would be much more logical to fake slides from FUTURE EVENT.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


They are (supposed to be) from the past event. There was surely a lot of people at this event, somebody should be able to indicate if they fake or not.

BTW it would be much more logical to fake slides from FUTURE EVENT.


Don't you think that if they were from a past event AMD would've proofread better?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15040198*
> Don't you think that if they were from a past event AMD would've proofread better?


You probably did not read, what I wrote here a while ago:

"they look like a draft. If is much more probable, that a draft leaks, than a final version."

I can imagine this was early draft, that was sent to few people to hear their opinions about it and get some ideas.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


You probably did not read, what I wrote here a while ago:

"they look like a draft. If is much more probable, that a draft leaks, than a final version."

I can imagine this was early draft, that was sent to few people to hear their opinions about it and get some ideas.


Come on, FX-b4150? You really think AMD would send anyone, even internally, a slide saying that?


----------



## StepanPepan

I can imagine author sending this to few coworkers. There is no need for it to be perfect.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I can imagine author sending this to few coworkers. There is no need for it to be perfect.


The "b" there is so easy to see; I'd be surprised if the guy making their official slides didn't notice it.


----------



## StepanPepan

Usario - I know so little as you know. I think I already used up everything I could speculate about and have no other arguments to discuss with you...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15040328*
> I know so little as you know. I think I already used up everything I could speculate about and have to other arguments to discuss with you...


You, I, nor he who shall not be named can be proven right or wrong... until launch, that is.

ATM it's all speculation, whatever makes more sense to each individual I guess.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steevieweevie;15040356*
> I just have a few simple questions:
> 1. When is Bulldozer going to be released


12th October.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steevieweevie;15040356*
> 2. What type of performance can we expect


It is a bunch of little cores with shared resources. This makes good sense in 16 core server processor. Not so much sense in desktop. This a processor that accidentally went where it does not belong.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steevieweevie;15040356*
> 3. Is AMD better than Intel.


At this moment, not.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

everybody just walk away, act like nothing happened....


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15040827*
> Also, has anyone read anymore websites that indicate October 12th as the release date? It's getting close and I'm getting excited (again)!


Benz just needs to relax a bit..









I am very excited about Oct 12th as well









I was thinking about going as an AMD FX Bulldozer chip for Halloween. I wont show up for the Halloween party, and if someone calls to find out if I am coming I will just tell them I should arrive in 60 to 90 mins







Then when I don't show up at all and people ask where I was, I can just tell them I got delayed.


----------



## Swiftdeathz

Wow this thread is in candela. I was gone for about 13 hours and there are 7 new pages of posts omg, I just skipped to last one.









Still here patiently waiting the bulldozer's arrival.


----------



## 855211

I cant believe that i didn't notice this until now. Oct 12 is my birthday!


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Benz just needs to relax a bit..









I am very excited about Oct 12th as well









I was thinking about going as an AMD FX Bulldozer chip for Halloween. I wont show up for the Halloween party, and if someone calls to find out if I am coming I will just tell them I should arrive in 60 to 90 mins







Then when I don't show up at all and *people ask where I was*










no,you need to have a friend go as JF-AMD to show up first and say to everyone "He's here when he's here" and.....
"all i can say is what i was told,and i was told he would be here in the 4th quarter of the night"


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I am waiting for the 26th. I am curious what BigCactus is going to do


----------



## jck

Anyone win a 8150 yet?


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jck;15041179*
> IAnyone win a *8150* yet?


Wait win what you mean, how do i enter..

also the mods are good here, i try to get as close as possible to them(No ****)


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15041039*
> no,you need to have a friend go as jf-amd to show up first and say to everyone "he's here when he's here" and.....
> "all i can say is what i was told,and i was told he would be here in the 4th quarter of the night"


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


Wait win what you mean, how do i enter..

also the mods are good here, i try to get as close as possible to them(No ****)

















Enter here








http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-entry.aspx


----------



## jck

I'm thinking about doing HDDErase this weekend to the SSD I've got to put in the box that will host my Zambezi.

I just have wondered....

My Phenom II 555BE unlocked to x4 could run 10 instances of Shadowbane so that I could run my own group.

I wonder if I'll be able to run 20 instances on the 8150.


----------



## Disturbed117

I see you down there john.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Enter here








http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/proces.../fx-entry.aspx


Shhh you are ruining my chances


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Shhh you are ruining my chances










I was just playing dumb anyways


----------



## jck

I saw him too...









He disappeared now.


----------



## Canis-X

Wow! Sorry guys....didn't mean to start anything with that post to the no-name site.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Wow! Sorry guys....didn't mean to start anything with that post to the no-name site.


Lets see, what shall be your punishment,
oh how about 25 lashes with a razor bladed whip. Would that suffice? We could also get zodac to do the lashing







.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


12th October.


I will state this again and for the last time:
*There is currently no confirmed release date.*
Those not willing to read the Bulldozer pre-launch FAQ as well as chiming in with such insidious and unsourced comments about release date, will not be taken seriously here.


----------



## flashtest

Yes, fully understanding that ppl interested in Bulldozer are less than 5% of their market (are we really 50% of the statistics in forums are made on the fly







)
Although my opinion is a little different - the 5% are actually playing some role in the purchase of components to their company/family/friends.

but still way more options than plain silence and "takeoff at takeoff"









http://www.tomshardware.com/news/dia...ime,13511.html

Yeah, i know not the same - PC Game vs CPU - but still the more classy way to announce a delay. 
Why couldn't the guys at AMD do something like that

"bla bla wonderful chip bla bla hard 5 years of work but still need some polish bla bla we will try to bring it to you at 2011 Q4/ 2012 Q1 bla bla for the best of the customer (not couse we lack yields and focused production on server chips for higher profit) bla bla yea it rips i7 2600K " well dreams


----------



## Usario

You know this thread has deteriorated further when multiple posts consist of nothing but a fragment about who is reading it.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I will state this again and for the last time:
*There is currently no confirmed release date.*
Those not willing to read the Bulldozer pre-launch FAQ as well as chiming in with such insidious and unsourced comments about release date, will not be taken seriously here.


Makes me wonder why this thread is open to begin with. As it stands.......... there is no confirmed anything in regards to BD.

Merely a BD banter thread to pass time for some? I see speculation and hopeful guesses are frowned upon.

Bulldozer pre-launch FAQ should suffice until the day AMD decides to unbutton their lips. Another words, why not close shop until one is ready to do some actual business, as it stands, the shelves are empty....... why walk the isles.


----------



## mad87645

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Makes me wonder why this thread is open to begin with. As it stands.......... there is no confirmed anything in regards to BD.


because we *THOUGHT* it would be released on sept 19....oh how did that turn out









dammit this wait is killing me


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


12th October.

*It is a bunch of little cores with shared resources. This makes good sense in 16 core server processor. Not so much sense in desktop. This a processor that accidentally went where it does not belong.*

At this moment, not.


Obviously, you have no idea about the Bulldozer architecture. It is available widely through the internet though, so you should probably go read up about things you don't understand before making baseless claims.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Obviously, you have no idea about the Bulldozer architecture. It is available widely through the internet though, so you should probably go read up about things you don't understand before making baseless claims.


Actually he's right. Bette yet, explain how he is wrong.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Actually he's right. Bette yet, explain how he is wrong.


Read up on it. They aren't tiny cores, they share resources that it actually makes sense to share and none of us know how it will perform in a desktop.

How was he right again?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Read up on it. They aren't tiny cores, they share resources that it actually makes sense to share and none of us know how it will perform in a desktop.

how was he right again?


I don't know if we shall call them ....*tiny*, but they are *small* clusters, it shares resources(duh), it is a server architecture FIRST, and in typical desktop applications, it probably* won't be up to snuff with a more "dedicated" if you will, desktop processor. However, with no hard evidence, i won't say anything regarding precise performance numbers.

So essentially, he was right. I mean, it was a basic, on point statement. Maybe you should do a little research on BD architecture







He didn't say it was a bad processor. No need to blast him.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


I don't know if we shall call them ....*tiny*, but they are small clusters, it shares resources(duh) it is a server architecture FIRST, and in typical desktop applications, it probably* won't be up to snuff with a more "dedicated" if you will, desktop processor. However, with no hard evidence, i won't say anything regarding precise performance numbers.

So essentially, he was right. I mean, it was a basic, on point statement. Maybe you should do a little research on BD architecture







He didn't say it was a bad processor. No need to blast him.


Maybe I have read up on it. Obviously much more than you have. It has full size integer pipelines, and the shared floating point unit and cache is very efficient.

You can speculate all you want about performance but speculation does not equal fact. We'll all see when it gets here.

Edit: I wasn't blasting anyone, just suggesting that people should know what they're talking about before passing judgement.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


We'll all see when it gets here.


Yes we will


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Although my opinion is a little different - the 5% are actually playing some role in the purchase of components to their company/family/friends.


I was going to say something about this fact too. I look at it like this...

If I had to buy my parents a computer today I would put an SB chip in it. Simply because it is the best bang for the buck and it will last them a good 4-5 years. In a month or 2 if BD is close to the performance of the SB chips at a lower price point, I would recommend BD instead. The delays and silence do not affect my judgement in any way. I will pick out the best chip for them at that specific point in time. I'm not going to say no don't get a BD chip because it was delayed and they didn't tell us about it...


----------



## Schmuckley

omann...if there's no bd by the 26th..i'm gettin' other stuff screw 'um ..i might even dismantle this build and put sandy bridge back in tonight ..grr


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naturecannon*


Makes me wonder why this thread is open to begin with. As it stands.......... there is no confirmed anything in regards to BD.

Merely a BD banter thread to pass time for some? I see speculation and hopeful guesses are frowned upon.

Bulldozer pre-launch FAQ should suffice until the day AMD decides to unbutton their lips. Another words, why not close shop until one is ready to do some actual business, as it stands, the shelves are empty....... why walk the isles.


The point of this thread is specifically to ask JF-AMD questions about bulldozer. The problem is that most people who comment on here keep spreading stupid turds like DonanimHaber or worse and asking if it's real or confirmed.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Obviously, you have no idea about the Bulldozer architecture. It is available widely through the internet though, so you should probably go read up about things you don't understand before making baseless claims.


*the bulldozer architecture to me* appears more like a module ... and that module can either do one big core depending on the coding from the application .. or do two smaller cores ...

so really the os will see it as 8 cores .. but it shouldnt be called one per say ...but it still has all the key things to call it a real 8 core at the same time

so that's why people will often get mistaken about what to call it before the nda ends

@JF-AMD: can you tell us if my line of thinking on the module part is right? or is that under nda too ?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Actually he's right. Bette yet, explain how he is wrong.


how can he be wrong when we dont have the full picture ... its still under nda you know

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


omann...*if there's no bd by the 26th..i'm gettin' other stuff screw 'um* ..i might even dismantle this build and put sandy bridge back in tonight ..grr


glad you could share that with us


----------



## Evil Penguin

I can't wait until actual BD benches are out. 
Some of you ^ defending AMD so passionately might change their views.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


*the bulldozer architecture to me* appears more like a module ... and that module can either do one big core depending on the coding from the application .. or do two smaller cores ...


The Bulldozer Module is a Dual-core design it can only be two cores

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


how can he be wrong when we dont have the full picture ... its still under nda you know


Most of the architecture knowledge is public domain but how it will perform in real world is still relatively unknown

K15 is the most publicized AMD Architecture to date

Yet people keep stumbling on this architecture...ugh


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


*the bulldozer architecture to me* appears more like a module ... and that module can either do one big core depending on the coding from the application .. or do two smaller cores ...


I have said many times, a module is always 2 cores. You cannot combine them into one core. Just as you cannot combine cores of any processor that I am aware of through coding.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have said many times, a module is always 2 cores. You cannot combine them into one core. Just as you cannot combine cores of any processor that I am aware of through coding.



thanks john

i guess i mis-interpret something about the hpc crowd and the recompiling you talked about


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


thanks john

i guess i mis-interpret something about the hpc crowd and the recompiling you talked about












This is how it works. The cores can not combine in to one.


----------



## Fr0sty

but one thread can actually use the whole shared ressources right???


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*











This is how it works. The cores can not combine in to one.


What I think the confusion is mainly coming from is the FPU, which can be one 256-bit AVX or two 128-bit FMACs/FMULs.

Very few client users ever actually need a powerful FPU though.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


What I think the confusion is mainly coming from is the FPU, which can be one 256-bit AVX or two 128-bit FMACs/FMULs.

Very few client users ever actually need a powerful FPU though.


Very true, and with the advent of GPU's taking over floating point calculations, the FPU will become less and less relevant.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


but one thread can actually use the whole shared ressources right???


The meaning of shared resources is...

Interference or No Interference

Interference = Both cores want the same thing

No Interference = Both cores want a different thing or one core isn't doing anything

You won't get a significant increase or a significant decrease in performance if both cores are active or just one core is active


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I can't wait until actual BD benches are out. 
Some of you ^ defending AMD so passionately might change their views.


 you intel fanboys are just afraid of BD crushing your precious SB


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


you intel fanboys are just afraid of BD crushing your precious SB










Last time I checked EvilPenguin isn't an Intel fanboy, but then again that shiny new MacBook Pro might've changed him


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


What I think the confusion is mainly coming from is the FPU, which can be one 256-bit AVX or two 128-bit FMACs/FMULs.

Very few client users ever actually need a powerful FPU though.


exactly ... that's why i got that crazy idea about the module LOL


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

What does FPU do exactly?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


What does FPU do exactly?










Math.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


What does FPU do exactly?











Its the part of the processor that does mathematics. Addition subraction these sorts of things.

thats a real laymen way of putting it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Math.


Exactly.

And....... how many home users need their computer to do math that a Pentium 4 can't do almost instantly?

Good FPUs are much appreciated in a server/workstation CPU though


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Its the part of the processor that does mathematics. Addition subraction these sorts of things.

thats a real laymen way of putting it.


I need to communicate with my CPU somehow. Just a one on one chat so it can do my calculus. I can do the math, I just don't want to.

Also, thank you and Smoov.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Exactly.

And....... how many home users need their computer to do math that a Pentium 4 can't do almost instantly?


I can't think of any. I'm sure there are a few people that think it's a lot more important than it really is though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I need to communicate with my CPU somehow. Just a one on one chat so it can do my calculus. I can do the math, I just don't want to.

Also, thank you and Smoov.


Any time Samurai. And Windows does have a scientific calculator if that will help.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I can't think of any. I'm sure there are a few people that think it's a lot more important than it really is though.


You mean the people who use SuperPi? lol


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


You mean the people who use SuperPi? lol


Exactly.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *doglivehk*


Here is the non-proved performance of Bulldozer from a Chinese IT website:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/656/656603.shtml



















*The conclusion is "not satisfied"*










No, the real conclusion is, stop posting garbage. 
*Why those people are testing the same chips for months and reposting garbage ??? 
DOES IT MAKE SENSE ?*

All those guys from china forums are just dumb, or are page-click hunting. (?)

All ES have low performance,we already know it.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


You mean the people who use SuperPi? lol


x87 isn't the only thing that uses the fpu's.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


x87 isn't the only thing that uses the fpu's.












Oh look at this!!!

x87(1 core) 20.512 seconds
SSE3(1 core) 1.075 seconds

wow!!!!!

y-cruncher can use up to AVX so try it out Balla
http://www.numberworld.org/y-cruncher/
(Be sure to set it to 1 thread like I did)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I just got my SSD today so I tossed Windows 8 on it which supports AVX, but this program doesn't think it does (seems to only check for w7 sp1) so it ran it on SSE4.1










Here's 4 cores with PI:


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15045407*
> Any time Samurai. And Windows does have a scientific calculator if that will help.


Oh I know. I just simply do not want to write at all. (<----Lazy bat)
Thanks again though :3

Balla is ballin'. LOL.









I also completely forgot what I was going to ask/say about Bulldozer so I'm going to be sure to put Bulldozer in the sentence so it's not off the topic of Bulldozer.
Bulldozer.
Oh, and in my opinion.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15046409*
> Balla is ballin'. LOL.












Here is SSE3, same version you ran and well as AVX.










I just ran the binaries to get AVX to work on w8.


----------



## swindle

I'm one seriously pissed off dude.

This PhenomII SUCKS and is choking my rig worse then Jack the Ripper.

I built a rig for a mate last night. i5. It kills.


----------



## liberato87

has anyone taken a look at this?

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari_1.htm

It seems "official" Amd slides...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Nope, but a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense.

In gaming it seems to be about as good as the 980x ($950 on TD), it says save that $800, which puts the 8150 @ $150.























Another thing I don't get is that it hangs with the 980x in many of those games, yet loses to the i7-2600k in several of the multithreading tests, specifically PoV which the 980x is quite a bit faster than the i7-2600k.

So what gives? 980x or better light threaded performance, yet slower in multithreading than an i7-2600k which is actually slower than the 980x in those tasks?


----------



## swindle

Isn't anything on that site supposed to be taken with a grain of salt?


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liberato87;15047534*
> has anyone taken a look at this?
> 
> http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari_1.htm
> 
> It seems "official" Amd slides...


If those slides are official then I am going to be majorly disappointing when FX is released. They don't seem to be touting their horn very much on performance. Those slides are more marketing then they are gloating.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15047588*
> Nope, but a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> In gaming it seems to be about as good as the 980x ($950 on TD), it says save that $800, which puts the 8150 @ $150.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing I don't get is that it hangs with the 980x in many of those games, yet loses to the i7-2600k in several of the multithreading tests, specifically PoV which the 980x is quite a bit faster than the i7-2600k.
> 
> So what gives? 980x or better light threaded performance, yet slower in multithreading than an i7-2600k which is actually slower than the 980x in those tasks?


Remember FX only scales at around 80% (maybe even worse than that since 80% is an AMD number). Even if a single thread on a module is Westmere IPC, about 20-25% better than PH II, once both halves of the module are in use you lose 20% performance.

Thus FX may give approx. first gen i7 performance in lightly threaded workloads, but only slightly better than PH II when all threads are used. Games, which are 4 threads or less, would not see much performance hit so long as you have the 8 core.

EDIT: In the slide deck, the top bin 8 core is $245.


----------



## liberato87

I think about this slides that we have the fx 8150 performing similar to the i5 2500k and 980x in games (in fullhd), and performing similar (in some bench it performs worse,in some other better..) to the i7 2600k in multithread application.
so If these results are true I think they're good (nice in ST and very well in ST).


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Check out this post I found over at xtremesystems which is a collection of Chew* 's explination of BD. Pretty must states to not think of BD as an 8c / 8t chip because it performs more like a 4c / 8t chip with HT. But has an advantage over Intel's HT since it is 2 physical cores per module.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4956589&viewfull=1#post4956589


Which I agree 100% with Chew* on this b/c I remember AMD saying earlier in the development of BD to not think of it as 8 Cores think of it as 4 Modules


----------



## j.zero

I am new to posting but I have been lurking the last few weeks waiting on bulldozer to release. These slides look legit to me, and I'm not exactly disappointed, but if performance is on par w/2500k on some things and can't beat the 2600k in multi-threaded apps I think it should cost less than it does.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;15047629*
> Remember FX only scales at around 80% (maybe even worse than that since 80% is an AMD number). Even if a single thread on a module is Westmere IPC, about 20-25% better than PH II, once both halves of the module are in use you lose 20% performance.
> 
> Thus FX may give approx. first gen i7 performance in lightly threaded workloads, but only slightly better than PH II when all threads are used. Games, which are 4 threads or less, would not see much performance hit so long as you have the 8 core.
> 
> EDIT: In the slide deck, the top bin 8 core is $245.


It's like 3.4GHz (980x) vs 4.2GHz (8150) for those game benches isn't it?

IPC doesn't seem to be there, does it?

These can't be legit can they?

$175 for the x6?

What the x4 then, $140? Lord... Not going to read into this, must wait for offical.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15044027*
> but one thread can actually use the whole shared ressources right???


Yes, but the overnead from sharing is pretty low, so you shouldn't necessarily see a huge increase in performance from that. Unless your app is very cache-sensitive, then having 2MB of L2 for a single thread could be advantageous. But for most apps you won't see a huge difference if there are 1 or 2 threads on a module.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15044122*
> Very true, and with the advent of GPU's taking over floating point calculations, the FPU will become less and less relevant.


GPU is good for streaming a large number of parallel instructions, but FPU will always be better for doing quick math and serial tasks. Think of the GPU like a highway. Lots of lanes but located on the outskirts of town. If you are taking a road trip it is perfect, but to grab a gallon of milk at the store, not so good.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15047677*
> 
> Which I agree 100% with Chew* on this b/c I remember AMD saying earlier in the development of BD to not think of it as 8 Cores think of it as 4 Modules


Who at AMD siad that?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15047722*
> It's like 3.4GHz (980x) vs 4.2GHz (8150) for those game benches isn't it?
> 
> IPC doesn't seem to be there, does it?
> 
> These can't be legit can they?
> 
> $175 for the x6?
> 
> What the x4 then, $140? Lord... Not going to read into this, must wait for offical.


I doubt it is getting anywhere near 4.2GHz considering how windows balances load. Take at look at this slide :










The best case is +10% boost from TC and the average is more like 5% whereas 4.2GHz is 16% more clockspeed than 3.6GHz. Furthermore, I am sure that benefit is near the best case considering these are AMD slides.

Of course, we will need to wait for third party reviews, but I think that in games (@ 1080p or above) FX will perform like the i7 920 per clock (10-15% slower than SB), but will have the same clock potential (~5GHz) as SB. And this is all for $70 cheaper than the 2600K.

Still not sure if I will buy FX or SB, but it seems that AMD did an OK job with Bulldozer.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I thought it had two turbo modes...

Either 3.9GHz with load on all cores, or 4.2GHz with load on only 4...

Intel has the crappy 4 set version that almost never sees the highest threshold because of windows.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15047804*
> Yes, but the overnead from sharing is pretty low, so you shouldn't necessarily see a huge increase in performance from that. Unless your app is very cache-sensitive, then having 2MB of L2 for a single thread could be advantageous. But for most apps you won't see a huge difference if there are 1 or 2 threads on a module.
> 
> GPU is good for streaming a large number of parallel instructions, but FPU will always be better for doing quick math and serial tasks. Think of the GPU like a highway. Lots of lanes but located on the outskirts of town. If you are taking a road trip it is perfect, but to grab a gallon of milk at the store, not so good.
> 
> Who at AMD siad that?


Anyway JF... I appreciate you putting up with us..

I've decided to stick with AMD even though there have been delays.

I've just ordered the 2nd to final part for my new BD build
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157267

Just waiting on you guys for the BD.

this is a screen shot of my system I really do need a processor that handles this much. And this is pretty typical usage for me. This is with the boinc program OFF. 60% processor usage and im not even pushing it like I sometimes do.

And yes that is staying alive by the beegees  some of us do have taste in music


----------



## proximo

I'm surprised JF-AMD let that one slide. As he has said several times, the hit is ~10% if both cores in a module are fully utilized compared to two discrete cores.

2 discrete cores at 100% each = 200%
2 FX cores in a module at 90% each = 180%

A lot of people seem to make the mistake that the 20 unit loss here is % per core. No, it's just 10%.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;15047629*
> Remember FX only scales at around 80% (maybe even worse than that since 80% is an AMD number). Even if a single thread on a module is Westmere IPC, about 20-25% better than PH II, once both halves of the module are in use you lose 20% performance.


----------



## capitaltpt

So my speculation runs this way:

Do I expect bulldozer to beat and blow away intel......No. But I expect it to be pretty close. I don't think AMD will have the top processor, but I do believe it will be priced competitively for performance relative to Intel. I think benchmarks will show them exchanging blows benchmark by benchmark, but with only slight differences. AMD may not be top dog, but they'll be competitive again and price will favor them. Think of it like the differences in RAM right now. Performance is pretty close from brand to brand, it's more about the best price.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15048013*
> So my speculation runs this way:
> 
> Do I expect bulldozer to beat and blow away intel......No. But I expect it to be pretty close. I don't think AMD will have the top processor, but I do believe it will be priced competitively for performance relative to Intel. I think benchmarks will show them exchanging blows benchmark by benchmark, but with only slight differences. AMD may not be top dog, but they'll be competitive again and price will favor them. Think of it like the differences in RAM right now. Performance is pretty close from brand to brand, it's more about the best price.


I certainly hope so thats what I have just made a 450 dollar bet on basically.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15047804*
> Who at AMD siad that?


My apologies John, I am one of those people who developed one of those misunderstood theories, from the early presentations of Bulldozer architecture.








Quote:


> You will never see a spec sheet with modules called out. Modules will not have a "marketing name", they will only be ""Bulldozer" modules." In reality, modules will only matter to the designers. Since we went out with "Bulldozer" information very early we focused on the shared architecture and talked at the module level (it is still far too early to be sharing die shots&#8230;.) Because of this the two most misunderstood theories became a.) the module was the whole processor and b.) the module was somehow equal to one core.


Source:
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/08/23/%E2%80%9Dbulldozer%E2%80%9D-20-questions-round-one/

Thank you for responding to my post and giving me reason to research my claim


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *proximo;15047982*
> I'm surprised JF-AMD let that one slide. As he has said several times, the hit is ~10% if both cores in a module are fully utilized compared to two discrete cores.
> 
> 2 discrete cores at 100% each = 200%
> 2 FX cores in a module at 90% each = 180%
> 
> A lot of people seem to make the mistake that the 20 unit loss here is % per core. No, it's just 10%.


Yeah, I missed typed that.

Still 180%/200% is an AMD number and considering that the 2 discrete bulldozer cores that they are comparing the module to don't even exist I am willing to bet that there will be many cases where the scaling is less than 90%.

Anyway, the modules don't scale as well as 2 traditional CPU cores and as such it is possible for AMD to have improved the IPC to around first gen i7 level while still only being able to equal the 2600K for 8 threads. That was my point.

We will see for sure when it is released.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Since we are on the subject of Modules / Cores - how well does an Intel Core scale with hyper-threading enabled? If you take 1 Intel Core and disable HT run test then enable the HT and run the test again how well does it scale? Does HT give you a 100% performance increase?


----------



## kzone75

Official slides? From donanimhaber? pfft...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15048078*
> Since we are on the subject of Modules / Cores - how well does an Intel Core scale with hyper-threading enabled? If you take 1 Intel Core and disable HT run test then enable the HT and run the test again how well does it scale? Does HT give you a 100% performance increase?


No, not even close.

It's more like a 5% increase per HT core, in applications that benefit from it.

A quad core with HT is about 20% faster than a quad core without HT, a hex core with HT would be about 30% faster than a hex core without HT.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15048256*
> No, not even close.
> 
> It's more like a 5% increase per HT core, in applications that benefit from it.
> 
> A quad core with HT is about 20% faster than a quad core without HT, a hex core with HT would be about 30% faster than a hex core without HT.


So in theory, and refrence to:
Quote:


> 2 discrete cores at 100% each = 200%
> 2 FX cores in a module at 90% each = 180%


This means 2 BD cores (1 BD module) scales better than an Intel core with HT?

But since the OS cannot address a module and it can only address the individual cores then we might not see much of a performance increase comparing a single Intel Core with HT to a BD Module?

Edit: Ok I am going to take a break from this for a bit, go back and research AMD blog post, and try to get a better understanding on this. I think all of the misconstrued information on the internet, since the announcement of BD has been tangled up in the offical information, and just caused further confusion. I hope we see something official from AMD soon to clear up a lot of this confusion.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15048468*
> So in theory, and refrence to:
> 
> This means 2 BD cores (1 BD module) scales better than an Intel core with HT?
> 
> But since the OS cannot address a module and it can only address the individual cores then we might not see much of a performance increase comparing a single Intel Core with HT to a BD Module?
> 
> Edit: Ok I am going to take a break from this for a bit, go back and research AMD blog post, and try to get a better understanding on this. I think all of the misconstrued information on the internet, since the announcement of BD has been tangled up in the offical information, and just caused further confusion. I hope we see something official from AMD soon to clear up a lot of this confusion.


Yes, but it's not really the same thing, HT doesn't require nearly as much die space as what bulldozer is doing. Intel is going up slightly from 100% of one core, while AMD is going down slightly from 200%.

Not sure where you're coming from.

Don't think of it like a Module, think of it as two cores. The OS will see two cores, it will use two cores.

I don't believe the turbo feature works per core, so no matter what the overhead is always there. You can't get away from it. The only difference is in turbo frequences.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15048256*
> No, not even close.
> 
> It's more like a 5% increase per HT core, in applications that benefit from it.
> 
> A quad core with HT is about 20% faster than a quad core without HT, a hex core with HT would be about 30% faster than a hex core without HT.


I was under the impression that one fake core (HT) is equivilant to half of a real core on Intel. So a 4 core, 8 thread processor from Intel would be roughly the same as a 6 core, 6 thread processor with the same specs.

Just what I was under the impression of anyway. And of course, that does only apply to applications that will actually benefit from HT.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I don't think it gets quite that high, but some programs are much more optimized for HT than others. And of course there are some that actually lose performance from HT.

In something like Cinebench an i7-2600k will get around 9.71 @ 5GHz while an i5-2500k will get around 7.7-8.

The gain is around 17-20% I believe.


----------



## flashtest

For my little understanding of that matter - It's simply a 8 core CPU - but a pair of cores has to wait each other when a 256bit FPU instruction program executes (making it a 4 core in this case only) afaik very little programs use 256bit so it will behave like a Phenom x8 (in terms of cores) if intel does not push 256bit instructions in it's next compiler (lacking software knowledge to comment that) - explaining to software developers how 'it's far superior".

No way you can compare HT to that - it's just a way for optimizing threats if the pipeline is not 100% loaded from something. So running a complex app intel's stay a 4 core with or without HT - You can find more info on that if you look a random CPU review (think Tom, Anand and co. had test with and w/o HT on Intel reviews)

Btw, DH's slides look worse in syntax than my posts - with some expressions typical to Slavic people (guess he got another 'intern AMD source' mail from OBR and co.







)

Edit - on i5 vs i7- don't forget the cache difference


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15048595*
> I was under the impression that one fake core (HT) is equivilant to half of a real core on Intel. So a 4 core, 8 thread processor from Intel would be roughly the same as a 6 core, 6 thread processor with the same specs.
> 
> Just what I was under the impression of anyway. And of course, that does only apply to applications that will actually benefit from HT.


HT isn't a fake core, HT makes use of a dual scheduler for each int/fpu core, and runs threads when the pipeline is underutilized, the more cpu intensive the workload and the more the int/fpu pipelines are utilized the less HT returns in performance improvements. What HT is in practice, is a very aggressive scheduler for the int/fpu portions of the core. The more optimized the code is for performance the lower the gains from HT are.


----------



## Benz

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari_11.htm

Intel fanboys just can't let it go can they...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15048902*
> http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari_11.htm
> 
> Intel fanboys just can't let it go can they...


Not sure why anyone believes those...

According to that a Phenom II x6 @ 4.5GHz is faster than a Bulldozer x8 @ 4.8GHz (at least in cinebench!).


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15048902*
> http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari_11.htm
> 
> Intel fanboys just can't let it go can they...


I don't see why that is attributed to Intel fanboys.

It shows bulldozer about on par (slightly under in most cases) to the 2600k and substantially beating the 2500k. Given that the 8150 is priced at $245 on those same slides and the 2600k is $300....what's the problem?

It shows, while AMD doesn't have the king of the processors, it has closed the performance gap on Intel and is offering a processor similar in performance to the 2600k for a significantly cheaper price.

Yes we can argue all day if these are fake or not and of course we'll hear "these aren't representative" blah blah blah. But let's look at the big picture here. If these are real, then really, what's the problem? You have a competitive product at a cheaper price. What more can you expect in the real world?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15049138*
> what's the problem?


In a word, *software*.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15049156*
> In a word, *software*.


meaning what? that benchmarks aren't optimized for bulldozer yet?

That would be a shame if the intention of me building a PC was to run benchmarks all day long, everyday.

For PC gaming, what can you do with a 2600k that you can't do with a phenom II 955? I seem to run all my games at max settings without any problems.

Photoshop runs just fine and smooth for me and Encoding in Sony Vegas works fine too.

However, video encoding and pure crunching numbers (folding, etc.) go to Intel right now. If BD is on par with 2600k in multithreading as the DH slides suggest, then there's really no big deal.


----------



## pcclock

Cinebench isn't a good optimized bench for HT and non-HT comparison.

The other part of the 2600K is that its an optimized chip, its not only/necessarily faster or better because it has HT. IF it didn't have HT and you would compare it to a 2500K than it would be faster is what I mean.

Take that into account too.









But I would be very interested in seeing how the BD threads turn out to be.

Even though I wonder if it would make any difference if its 4x modules or 8threads (cores, modules, threads however you say it)? Since gaming, to take an example, will wide support it. Whether it be a module with 2 cores, 8x cores or 8threads etc.

And probably AV software too, to take another example.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15049156*
> In a word, *software*.


Do you mean Software in reference to the software used to benchmark the chip or do you mean software as in running the benchmarks on an OS w/o the proper driver, and a mobo w/o a bios optimized for BD?


----------



## ShiftedReality

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15049377*
> Do you mean Software in reference to the software used to benchmark the chip or do you mean software as in running the benchmarks on an OS w/o the proper driver, and a mobo w/o a bios optimized for BD?


I would think also if they used extensions AMD CPU's used and/or coded it to work with AMD CPU's the results would be different.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15047588*
> Nope, but a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> In gaming it seems to be about as good as the 980x ($950 on TD), it says save that $800, which puts the 8150 @ $150.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing I don't get is that it hangs with the 980x in many of those games, yet loses to the i7-2600k in several of the multithreading tests, specifically PoV which the 980x is quite a bit faster than the i7-2600k.
> 
> So what gives? 980x or better light threaded performance, yet slower in multithreading than an i7-2600k which is actually slower than the 980x in those tasks?


Good point.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15047594*
> Isn't anything on that site supposed to be taken with a grain of salt?


No.

The whole saltshaker.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;15047629*
> Remember FX only scales at around 80% (maybe even worse than that since 80% is an AMD number). Even if a single thread on a module is Westmere IPC, about 20-25% better than PH II, once both halves of the module are in use you lose 20% performance.
> 
> Thus FX may give approx. first gen i7 performance in lightly threaded workloads, but only slightly better than PH II when all threads are used. Games, which are 4 threads or less, would not see much performance hit so long as you have the 8 core.
> 
> EDIT: In the slide deck, the top bin 8 core is $245.


No.

180% is an AMD number, not 80%. 1 module scales similar to 1.8 cores (this has nothing to do with performance; just scaling). That means 90%.

I doubt sharing the fetch/decode stage will slow down performance that much.

I also doubt that slide is accurate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15047722*
> It's like 3.4GHz (980x) vs 4.2GHz (8150) for those game benches isn't it?
> 
> IPC doesn't seem to be there, does it?
> 
> These can't be legit can they?
> 
> $175 for the x6?
> 
> What the x4 then, $140? Lord... Not going to read into this, must wait for offical.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15047881*
> I thought it had two turbo modes...
> 
> Either 3.9GHz with load on all cores, or 4.2GHz with load on only 4...
> 
> Intel has the crappy 4 set version that almost never sees the highest threshold because of windows.


Yeah.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *proximo;15047982*
> I'm surprised JF-AMD let that one slide. As he has said several times, the hit is ~10% if both cores in a module are fully utilized compared to two discrete cores.
> 
> 2 discrete cores at 100% each = 200%
> 2 FX cores in a module at 90% each = 180%
> 
> A lot of people seem to make the mistake that the 20 unit loss here is % per core. No, it's just 10%.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;15048213*
> Official slides? From donanimhaber? pfft...


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15048468*
> So in theory, and refrence to:
> 
> This means 2 BD cores (1 BD module) scales better than an Intel core with HT?
> 
> But since the OS cannot address a module and it can only address the individual cores then we might not see much of a performance increase comparing a single Intel Core with HT to a BD Module?
> 
> Edit: Ok I am going to take a break from this for a bit, go back and research AMD blog post, and try to get a better understanding on this. I think all of the misconstrued information on the internet, since the announcement of BD has been tangled up in the offical information, and just caused further confusion. I hope we see something official from AMD soon to clear up a lot of this confusion.


Intel core with HT = 130%
AMD Bulldozer module = 180%

Core/module scaling:

2500k: 100 + 95 + 90 + 85 = 370
2600k: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 = 490
990X/3960X: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 705
1090T: 100 + 95 + 90 + 85 + 80 + 75 = 525
FX-8150: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690

Multiply by IPC and clock speed for a comparison of multithreaded performance assuming similar HT optimization in real-world programs (varies depending on the programs) and the same instruction sets (if your workload is FP based and your program uses FMA4 the FX will destroy everything else)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15048595*
> I was under the impression that one fake core (HT) is equivilant to half of a real core on Intel. So a 4 core, 8 thread processor from Intel would be roughly the same as a 6 core, 6 thread processor with the same specs.
> 
> Just what I was under the impression of anyway. And of course, that does only apply to applications that will actually benefit from HT.


No.

HT's impact, from what I've seen, can be anything between -5% and +40%.


----------



## xd_1771

I don't know about you guys but I believe anything that states max turbo core speeds as such to be fake, for several reasons. There is absolutely no way it makes sense compared to what AMD has said about Turbo Core 2.0. MOST ESPECIALLY now that we have had confirmations that FX chips can hit >5Ghz on air, I definitely believe this is Donanimhaber stuff is completely false.

I would put HT closer to 115% in amount of boost it can provide. Considering it requires 2-5% more die space for the hardware (I'm not too sure what the number is), it's really not at all efficient.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *proximo*


I'm surprised JF-AMD let that one slide. As he has said several times, the hit is ~10% if both cores in a module are fully utilized compared to two discrete cores.

2 discrete cores at 100% each = 200%
2 FX cores in a module at 90% each = 180%

A lot of people seem to make the mistake that the 20 unit loss here is % per core. No, it's just 10%.


Now imagine 8 full sized-unshared cores at that *die size, TDP, price,clocks, and overclocking potential.*
IMO tough job, if even possible ....







ItÂ´s all about tradeoffs, you canÂ´t have everything at once.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I was under the impression that one fake core (HT) is equivilant to half of a real core on Intel. So a 4 core, 8 thread processor from Intel would be roughly the same as a 6 core, 6 thread processor with the same specs.

Just what I was under the impression of anyway. And of course, that does only apply to applications that will actually benefit from HT.


It depends on SW. If is optimal and fine tuned, SMT(HTT) can boost *up to* +30%. (total per cpu)
Gaming is around 0 +5%
Worst case scenario is up to -10% with SMT enabled (applies for SB, for P4 it was a bit worse). 
(i remember when databases SW required it disabled)

With modules (CMT) you have predictable results, i.e. if you use also the second cores in modules,
total performance doesnÂ´t go down or stay same, like with SMT-type processors. It goes up


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The gain is around 17-20% I believe.


 Average from my two freshly measured results (from 2500K and 2600K) is 22.8 %.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15050986*
> Average from my two freshly measured results (from 2500K and 2600K) is 22.8 %.


Did you take clock speed into account?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


However, video encoding and pure crunching numbers (folding, etc.) go to Intel right now. If BD is on par with 2600k in multithreading as the DH slides suggest, then there's really no big deal.


https://github.com/DarkShikari/x264-...d4ad053cba951d

Video Encoding is going to AMD soon~


----------



## catharsis

So I don't feel like reading back 5+ pages. Is Bulldozer still a mythical unicornesque creature?


----------



## Gulbis

http://www.techpowerup.com/152569/AM...enchmarks.html

HELL YEE


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gulbis*


http://www.techpowerup.com/152569/AM...enchmarks.html

HELL YEE


Faker than Nicki Minaj's backside


----------



## HK_47

how much do you think a used 1090T will sell for after bulldozer drops?


----------



## tvr

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gulbis*


http://www.techpowerup.com/152569/AM...enchmarks.html

HELL YEE


Shame its fake


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


how much do you think a used 1090T will sell for after bulldozer drops?


tree fifty


----------



## gplnpsb

It looks like the server manufacturer Penguin Computing has listed a bunch of Interlagos models on their configuration page. All core and max turbo frequencies are included as well. I'm not sure if the max turbo frequencies were previously reported. The all core turbo values appear to be 100 MHz higher than those that were previously reported.

AMD Opteron 6212, 8C, 2.8/3.7/3.7GHz
AMD Opteron 6220, 8C, 3.0/3.6GHz
AMD Opteron 6234, 12C, 2.3/2.9/3.1GHz
AMD Opteron 6238, 12C, 2.5/3.1/3.3GHz
AMD Opteron 6272, 16C, 2.1/2.7/3.1GHz
AMD Opteron 6274, 16C, 2.2/2.8/3.2GHz
AMD Opteron 6276, 16C, 2.3/2.9/3.3GHz
AMD Opteron 6282SE, 16C, 2.5/3.1/3.5GHz

Credit to this blog where I saw the link.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Faker than Nicki Minaj's backside


Agreed. Love the new avatar Usario lmao priceless.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


Anyway, the modules don't scale as well as 2 traditional CPU cores


But, unfortunately cores don't scale as well as you probably think.

2 cores is not 200%, 2 cores is probably only 195%, best case scenario. So that cuts a quarter out of the sharing overhead right off the bat.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


HT doesn't require nearly as much die space as what bulldozer is doing.


Intel claims 5% for HT. If you pull the second core out of a module it decreases the total die size by about 5% as well. Remember that half the die is probably memory controllers, HT interconnects and L3 cache.

Even within the module the integer pipelines and scheduler are pretty small, the Flex FP is a pretty big chunk of the module, and the 2MB L2 cache is big as well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pietro sk*


Now imagine 8 full sized-unshared cores at that *die size, TDP, price,clocks, and overclocking potential.*
IMO tough job, if even possible ....







ItÂ´s all about tradeoffs, you canÂ´t have everything at once.


8 full sized unshared cores would bump performance up a bit, but they would bump up power significantly and bump up cost significantly. If you did no sharing you would only be able to get about 6 cores in the same floorspace.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


So I don't feel like reading back 5+ pages. Is Bulldozer still a mythical unicornesque creature?


A unicorn originally meant rhinoceros. Rhinos aren't mythical. However they are pretty strong and get pissy rather easily.
Hopefully Bulldozer will be strong.









Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand all of those benchmarks are faaaaaaake. Yea...


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


A unicorn originally meant rhinoceros. Rhinos aren't mythical. However they are pretty strong and get pissy rather easily.
Hopefully Bulldozer will be strong.









Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand all of those benchmarks are faaaaaaake. Yea...










There's more than one theory about how the legend of unicorns came to be.

Anyways those benches seem to be pretty close to reality. We shall all see at launch. IMO it's looking good and I might hop on the BD bandwagon so long as its not delayed past october.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


tree fifty


lol that's saying BD is a complete flop and thuban's limited availability makes its price skyrocket.. highly doubt it. I would really like to see Phenom II X6 vs FX 6100 in bechmarks. depends on the benchmarks but my best guess is $80-$100 for a used 1090T after FX is released...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


tree fifty



















Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


lol that's saying BD is a complete flop and thuban's limited availability makes its price skyrocket.. highly doubt it. I would really like to see Phenom II X6 vs FX 6100 in bechmarks. depends on the benchmarks but my best guess is $80-$100 for a used 1090T after FX is released...


LOL, he was joking around. If he is referring to what I think he is then, that is how much the Lock Ness Monster would take for a for a used 1090T....about tree fiddy..







($3.50)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Intel claims 5% for HT. If you pull the second core out of a module it decreases the total die size by about 5% as well. Remember that half the die is probably memory controllers, HT interconnects and L3 cache.


OIC.

I was looking at it as two actual cores with some sharing to reduce die space...

Which is why I was thinking of Intel as going from 100% (1 core) to say 110% for HT, while AMD was going from 200% (2 cores) to say 160% (2 bulldozer cores).


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


There's more than one theory about how the legend of unicorns came to be.

Anyways those benches seem to be pretty close to reality. We shall all see at launch. IMO it's looking good and I might hop on the BD bandwagon so long as its not delayed past october.


In the old Testament (I think







), the writers actually made a point to say different names for the Rhino. They might say bicornis or unicornis to tell if it had one or two horns. In the King James version of the Bible, all forms were only translated to unicorn, and through the years the definition has changed due either to the culture or fantasy writing (or both).









And I reeeeeaaally think it would awesome if the article about Bulldozer looking the 2600k and the 980x in the eye were true. And then to get it at $250? Awesomeness.


----------



## JF-AMD

All of that exercise is academic.

What does it cost
How does it perform
How much power does it eat

Any discussion of scaling, die size or other variables is really meaningless to the consumer. You pay your money, you get your performance.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


OIC.

I was looking at it as two actual cores with some sharing to reduce die space...

Which is why I was thinking of Intel as going from 100% (1 core) to say 110% for HT, while AMD was going from 200% (2 cores) to say 160% (2 bulldozer cores).


JF said 180% for a BD module; somehow people got confused and began saying 80% for a BD core (or 160% for a module).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


And I reeeeeaaally think it would awesome if the article about Bulldozer looking the 2600k and the 980x in the eye were true. And then to get it at $250? Awesomeness.










If they were true, I'd be disappoint. But they're not.

xd_1771 and I pointed out quite a few problems with the slides in the news thread about them (BTW, did it get deleted?):

> not AMD's colors
> not AMD's style
> logo placement is different
> no description of occasion
> plain arial font
> typos
> badly cropped and resized images
> bad grammar (they came from a foreign site, DH, so this should automatically raise a red flag)
> etc

And Balla pointed out before that the benchmarks make no sense.... how does Bulldozer match the 980X in games, but then lose to the 2600k in benchmarks where the 980X beats the 2600k?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All of that exercise is academic.

What does it cost
How does it perform
How much power does it eat

Any discussion of scaling, die size or other variables is really meaningless to the consumer. You pay your money, you get your performance.


I'll assume you're talking to me and not Samurai Batgir









I agree, there are a lot of factors to consider when building your own system.

The biggest mistake I see people (I've done it myself) around here make is going off performance that is unrelated to their own tasks. Building a computer is as much about admitting your own usage needs as it is finding the best price/performance combination for all parts selected. Everything matters, from cpu, to gpu(s), and even screen resolution.

I haven't seen you comment on these resent releases directly, I'm leaning towards believe you've lumped them with everything else as fake or not representative of actual performance since by now you're probably tired of saying it over and over. However if that isn't the case, let us know









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


JF said 180% for a BD module; somehow people got confused and began saying 80% for a BD core (or 160% for a module).


Yeah I just made that number up because I just woke up and was just trying to show where my thought process on my comment before I went to bed was coming from









I had a few more problems, bulldozer was reportedly faster at high res than the i5-2500k, but they didn't state gpu(s) used, nor were the benchmarks cpu intensive they were actually all gpu benchmarks (heaven) so it struck me as odd there would be much if any difference between the two.

Also at 4.8GHz bulldozer is actually slower than my 1090T at 4.5GHz with ddr2.

I might come off as a fanboy, but all I try to do is state things as I see them both the good and bad.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All of that exercise is academic.

What does it cost
How does it perform
How much power does it eat

Any discussion of scaling, die size or other variables is really meaningless to the consumer. You pay your money, you get your performance.



Of thoes three things AMD has only informed us of the last one. 95W and 125W depending on model.

The other two are totally unknown but we'd sure like to know! I've already said I bought the AM3+ board. If for no other reason than to show intel they dont have every enthusiast in their pocket. Benchmarks would be pleasant. I dont want to have to wait for someone else to buy them.

Maybe here is a question that you CAN answer without violating NDA.

Since this thing has been pushed back so much. Are we relatively safe in assuming all the little electronic demons and bugs have been worked out so that we will have a stable chip at launch?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


JF said 180% for a BD module; somehow people got confused and began saying 80% for a BD core (or 160% for a module).

If they were true, I'd be disappoint. But they're not.

xd_1771 and I pointed out quite a few problems with the slides in the news thread about them (BTW, did it get deleted?):

> not AMD's colors
> not AMD's style
> logo placement is different
> no description of occasion
> plain arial font
> typos
> badly cropped and resized images
> bad grammar (they came from a foreign site, DH, so this should automatically raise a red flag)
> etc

And Balla pointed out before that the benchmarks make no sense.... how does Bulldozer match the 980X in games, but then lose to the 2600k in benchmarks where the 980X beats the 2600k?


Oh, I saw what Balla said. I just think it would be cool. Not expecting, just hoping.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I might come off as a fanboy, but all I try to do is state things as I see them both the good and bad.


But when you state the good and the bad, that isn't pro AMD you're labeled as an Intel fanboy, even when you have your 1090T data to back up your statements for the switch.

Again, I'm stating a fact, but you know someone is going to argue with it.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HK_47*


lol that's saying BD is a complete flop and thuban's limited availability makes its price skyrocket.. highly doubt it. I would really like to see Phenom II X6 vs FX 6100 in bechmarks. depends on the benchmarks but my best guess is $80-$100 for a used 1090T after FX is released...


He's quoting south park i believe. You know the "three fitty" slogan or whatever it is.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


There's more than one theory about how the legend of unicorns came to be.

Anyways those benches seem to be pretty close to reality. We shall all see at launch. IMO it's looking good and I might hop on the BD bandwagon so long as its not delayed past october.


What exact reality would that be ? Those benchs looked fake from the moment I saw them.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


It looks like the server manufacturer Penguin Computing has listed a bunch of Interlagos models on their configuration page. All core and max turbo frequencies are included as well. I'm not sure if the max turbo frequencies were previously reported. The all core turbo values appear to be 100 MHz higher than those that were previously reported.

AMD Opteron 6212, 8C, 2.8/3.7/3.7GHz
AMD Opteron 6220, 8C, 3.0/3.6GHz
AMD Opteron 6234, 12C, 2.3/2.9/3.1GHz
AMD Opteron 6238, 12C, 2.5/3.1/3.3GHz
AMD Opteron 6272, 16C, 2.1/2.7/3.1GHz
AMD Opteron 6274, 16C, 2.2/2.8/3.2GHz
AMD Opteron 6276, 16C, 2.3/2.9/3.3GHz
AMD Opteron 6282SE, 16C, 2.5/3.1/3.5GHz

Credit to this blog where I saw the link.



I gotta say, they must have some very good power handling/throttling/gating because those are some very aggressive server clocks IMHO.

Way to go !


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


What exact reality would that be ? Those benchs looked fake from the moment I saw them.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15055504*


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15048631*
> The HT gain in Cinebench is around 17-20% I believe.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15050986*
> Average from my two freshly measured results (from 2500K and 2600K) is 22.8 %.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeles;15051207*
> Did you take clock speed into account?


Sure. Both were clocked to 4.6, 4.7 and 5 GHz. Results are 9.00/7.30, 9.12/7.45, 9.73/7.92. Last one which I did not use just confirms the average.


----------



## blabla125

i don't bother to look at fake benchies people just wait it will get here.. then look at benchies


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15053211*
> tree fifty


where did you find this quote???

it seems all too familiar


----------



## catharsis

Hey now, I can take the jokes. But in all seriousness I'm just trying to stay hopeful that BD is a good chip in the end.


----------



## tvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;15057960*
> Hey now, I can take the jokes. But in all seriousness I'm just trying to stay hopeful that BD is a good chip in the end.


Same here as there been any real benchies


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15057888*
> where did you find this quote???
> 
> it seems all too familiar


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M[/ame]


----------



## Evil Penguin

So...
Do you any of your believe the 12th launch date?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


So...
Do you any of your believe the 12th launch date?


Not at all.


----------



## Evil Penguin

It would be really nice if it was.








I'll pre-order it through Amazon when it's listed, that's for sure.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


So...
Do you any of your believe the 12th launch date?


not launch but maybe NDA lift and shipping for revenue


----------



## tvr

So wait I have lost track of all this now, have any BD CPU been sent out for benchmarking ?, I keep seeing loads of fake results every where.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tvr*


So wait I have lost track of all this now, have any BD CPU been sent out for benchmarking ?, I keep seeing loads of fake results every where.


not a single one


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


not a single one


Well, I do believe they have engineering samples out for tests but there's nothing that's been released that can be taken seriously. AMD has a very tight grip on their NDA.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


So...
Do you any of your believe the 12th launch date?


I doubt it.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *a pet rock*


Well, I do believe they have engineering samples out for tests but there's nothing that's been released that can be taken seriously. AMD has a very tight grip on their NDA.


yea AMD have a very tight NDA for sure,but his exact question was....

Quote:



have any BD CPU been *sent out for benchmarking*


AMD sends ES's out for validation purposes not benchmarking,so im 100% right


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


yea AMD have a very tight NDA for sure,but his exact question was....

have any BD CPU been sent out for benchmarking

AMD sends ES's out for validation purposes not benchmarking,so im 100% right










Maybe so, but consider that the CPUs used for the overclocking competition looked a lot more like production candidate samples than engineering samples. (AMD FX _TM_ branding rather than AMD ENG SAMPLE, and an OPN code of *F*D8150FRW8KGU. The first letter of the OPN codes of AMD engineering samples is almost always Z). They might not be absolutely final silicon but they should be pretty close. I think the fact that such production candidates exist suggests that it is at least _possible_ for some reviewers to have had access to them under an NDA.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Maybe so, but consider that the CPUs used for the overclocking competition looked a lot more like production candidate samples than engineering samples. (AMD FX _TM_ branding rather than AMD ENG SAMPLE, and an OPN code of *F*D8150FRW8KGU. The first letter of the OPN codes of AMD engineering samples is almost always Z). They might not be absolutely final silicon but they should be pretty close. I think the fact that such production candidates exist suggests that it is at least _possible_ for some reviewers to have had access to them under an NDA.


no one is disputing that ES's or even the B2's are in reviewers hands,his question was........

Quote:



So wait I have lost track of all this now, have any BD CPU been sent out for *benchmarking ?*, I keep seeing loads of fake results every where.


the answer is no,even the WR chip wasnt benchmarked it was just a cpuz validation.and yes im sure some reviewers have their hands on some ES's and even B2's(maybe B2G's).
but AMD didnt send them out to them(if they sent them) to be benchmarked
they sent them out to MB makers to validate and bios makers to make sure all is working.
so to his question,no there has been no BD sent out to be benchmarked for public consumption to date.(im sure someone has benchmarked them but those are leaks)

you have to hand it to AMD,according to them,thousands of ES's were released yet we only have a few leaked benchmarks,thats an amazingly tight NDA.

Quote:



This is important because, while we have shipped thousands of parts up to now that were engineering samples, this first shipment of production parts is a revenue shipment, so Bulldozer is now officially in production


----------



## StepanPepan

I am very sorry, but one unpopular blogger just published, that:

all his results were done on overclocked processor, real results will be worse

AMD is preparing one more price drop of 8150 from 245 USD to match its low performance.

power consumption of FX 8150 is worse than of phenom 1100T


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Edit: NVM


----------



## StepanPepan

I am not a troll, I am just keeping you informed!


----------



## Kuchiyose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I am very sorry, but one unpopular blogger just published, that:

all his results were done on overclocked processor, real results will be worse

AMD is preparing one more price drop of 8150 from 245 USD to match its low performance.

power consumption of FX 8150 is worse than of phenom 1100T


I am very sorry, but one unpopular blogger just published, that:

all his results were done on overclocked processor, real results will be better

AMD is preparing one more price drop of 8150 from 245 USD to be super competitive.

power consumption of FX 8150 is better than of sempron 140


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Oh wait I see what you did their


----------



## codybuRr

all I can say about bulldozer is what till the 35nm intel CPU's come out.
than put those side by side.

its going to break world records. i promise.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *codybuRr;15062048*
> all I can say about bulldozer is what till the 35nm intel CPU's come out.
> than put those side by side.
> 
> its going to break world records. i promise.


What are you rambling about? SB is on 32nm.


----------



## tvr

So what benchmarks that have been leaked are real, there is so many fake ones I don't know what's what


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tvr;15062197*
> So what benchmarks that have been leaked are real, there is so many fake ones I don't know what's what


None are real. Wait for launch.


----------



## StarDestroyer

hey Damn_Smooth, how'd you fry your CH V


----------



## blabla125

bigcactus are you still standing by your 26th date?it 25th where i am


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I was wondering if Big Cactus would pop in today to give us an update on his prediction


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15062266*
> hey Damn_Smooth, how'd you fry your CH V


I had faith in another person's competence to install standoffs.


----------



## Cyclonic

Big Cactus 1 hour here to the 26th








Hope he is right tho cause im tired of waiting


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

You an me both


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I am very sorry, but one unpopular blogger just published, that:

all his results were done on overclocked processor, real results will be worse

AMD is preparing one more price drop of 8150 from 245 USD to match its low performance.

power consumption of FX 8150 is worse than of phenom 1100T


Must...... resist.... urge..... to..... feed......


----------



## capitaltpt

Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26


Its 0:16 now in Germany, and no NDA lift so i think he can sell his desktop


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


no one is disputing that ES's or even the B2's are in reviewers hands,his question was........

the answer is no,even the WR chip wasnt benchmarked it was just a cpuz validation.and yes im sure some reviewers have their hands on some ES's and even B2's(maybe B2G's).
but AMD didnt send them out to them(if they sent them) to be benchmarked
they sent them out to MB makers to validate and bios makers to make sure all is working.
so to his question,no there has been no BD sent out to be benchmarked for public consumption to date.(im sure someone has benchmarked them but those are leaks)

you have to hand it to AMD,according to them,thousands of ES's were released yet we only have a few leaked benchmarks,thats an amazingly tight NDA.











Ah man, I agree about AMD's NDAs, they seem to be working really well. I think we're just interpreting that guy's question slightly differently. I was just arguing that AMD could have send CPUs out to reviewers for the purpose of benchmarking already. Obviously the results of any tests would be under NDA, but *if* they sent them to reviewers, I'd think the reason would be to have them benchmarked.

Another peculiarity of his wording is that he said BD CPUs, not specifically Zambezi. Even if the desktop chips haven't reached reviewers for the purpose of benchmarking, I'd have a hard time believing that Interlagos hasn't. Sure it's not for public consumption now, but the results will be public at a later date.

I know I'm arguing semantics and I hope I'm not frustrating you, I just think it's best not to deal in absolutes.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26



I wonder if the mods would be ok if we made a thread for this


----------



## 4LC4PON3

HAHA Cactus is about to lose his rig. No way BullDozer is going to be released tomorrow. No offense but you would have to be a Dope to make that sort of commitment


----------



## mark4d

hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ******

  
 You Tube


----------



## Cranapple

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


inb4 he buys an ATI/AMD graphics card


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


yeah, commented on his post with some real info, but he, of course, wouldn't hear of it.


----------



## Hogwasher

Whoa some serious nerd rage there


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI



















I know a lot of people that feel the same as he does regarding AMD and BD. Alot of my friends have given up on waiting for BD. They think I am stupid for still waiting but you know what I tell them? NOBODY KNOWS WHAT BD CAN DO!!! I still think BD is going to be ground breaking


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


That like guy like says like like a lot man. Like you know what I mean? I couldn't get past the first 15 seconds he talks like a 16 year old girl.

Btw, anyone know if there will be AM3+ Mini ITX boards available?


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


You should edit your post with NSFW !
Although it appears to be the case most of the time, not all of us here on OCN are in high school!

Anyways, Just another happy AMD enthusiast.







. Surprised there are not more videos like his out there.

Would that video be classified as a rumor or fact? Most informative BD video I have seen to date!!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


That like guy like says like like a lot man. Like you know what I mean? I couldn't get past the first 15 seconds he talks like a 16 year old girl.



OMG my head almost exploded reading that.....


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*


HAHA Cactus is about to lose his rig. No way BullDozer is going to be released tomorrow. No offense but you would have to be a Dope to make that sort of commitment


The server chips are supposed to be released tomorrow aren't they? Those would technically qualify as "Bulldozer".


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26










:

You are awesome


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Must...... resist.... urge..... to..... feed......


Take advice from the mods, report and ignore. Don't quote or respond.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26


Make sure to spam his inbox with that so that he knows.









P.S. don't actually do that.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


lol fail


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


The server chips are supposed to be released tomorrow aren't they? Those would technically qualify as "Bulldozer".


i am not sure as I have not been really following BullDozer that much anymore due to the long wait. I am about a day away from ditching my 955 & AM3+ board I bought for Bulldozer and going to the dark side.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop

Takes us to the last US Time zone on September 26


Feels like...


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


The server chips are supposed to be released tomorrow aren't they? Those would technically qualify as "Bulldozer".


According to AMD's own press release announcing that Interlagos had shipped for revenue:

Quote:



"Interlagos" is expected to launch and be available in partner systems in the fourth quarter of this year.


Tomorrow is still decidedly Q3. I don't imagine we'll be seeing Interlagos for two to three more weeks. I hope the press release was being pessimistic though.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


The server chips are supposed to be released tomorrow aren't they? Those would technically qualify as "Bulldozer".










I am counting on this...or

I won't have a desktop ever again after this. This is not good.









Also I ban myself from this thread come midnight tomorrow if no bulldozer chips release as part of the deal.
--------------------------
Dear AMD

Please save me.

Yours,

BigCactus


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*









I am counting on this...or

I won't have a desktop ever again after this. This is not good.









Also I ban myself from this thread come midnight tomorrow if no bulldozer chips release as part of the deal.
--------------------------
Dear AMD

Please save me.

Yours,

BigCactus










bigcactus, just curious, what made you believe the 26 was the nda lift anyway?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


bigcactus, just curious, what made you believe the 26 was the nda lift anyway?


Fish and chip Fridays at Moes crab shack.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How much do you want for that 465 since you won't be needing it come tomorrow?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How much do you want for that 465 since you won't be needing it come tomorrow?


it's a 470.









I still got tomorrow. Calm down


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15066027*
> it's a 470.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still got tomorrow. Calm down


In the far east it's already the 26th

You fail

Balla has already claimed your 465; I claim the rest of your rig and I will sell it to an idiot who usually buys OEM computers on craigslist for $1000


----------



## swindle

Lol


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15066193*
> In the far east it's already the 26th
> 
> You fail
> 
> Balla has already claimed your 465; I claim the rest of your rig and I will sell it to an idiot who usually buys OEM computers on craigslist for $1000


What does it matter that its already the 26th in the far east? AMD headquarters are in california, so presumably an NDA would be in effect until the arrival of a specified date in the Pacific Standard Time Zone. If I'm not mistaken, many AnandTech reviews of AMD CPUs have been posted at 12:00 AM PST on the date of the NDA lift. I'm not saying an NDA lift is going to happen, in fact I think it will not, but I just think its too soon to say with confidence that nothing is going to happen.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15066586*
> What does it matter that its already the 26th in the far east? AMD headquarters are in california, so presumably an NDA would be in effect until the arrival of a specified date in the Pacific Standard Time Zone. If I'm not mistaken, many AnandTech reviews of AMD CPUs have been posted at 12:00 AM PST on the date of the NDA lift. I'm not saying an NDA lift is going to happen, in fact I think it will not, but I just think its too soon to say with confidence that nothing is going to happen.


Perhaps it's time to buy a new joke detector?


----------



## 4Two0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15065402*
> Feels like...


LOL, dude I'll buy your rig for a reasonable price.









btw, JF-AMD, can you confirm if desktop Bulldozers are in full production already? If it's against NDA to speak of it, I will understand.


----------



## Kazumi

I'd hope so with a release of the 12th from what I've read. Or is that date unvarified?


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15066193*
> In the far east it's already the 26th
> 
> You fail
> 
> Balla has already claimed your 465; I claim the rest of your rig and I will sell it to an idiot who usually buys OEM computers on craigslist for $1000


I said I'd sell it and never own another desktop again. That does not mean...I cannot use while I sell...right?


----------



## FurryCreatures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15067590*
> I said I'd sell it and never own another desktop again. That does not mean...I cannot use while I sell...right?


$10,000 for the PC sounds about right? Although... not being able to upgrade?


----------



## Vispor

Midnight PST....


----------



## tvr

I wish he would have been right, I still think AMD will be good, when they hit the market


----------



## flashtest

My bet - production due to low yields is all set on Interlagos - to satisfy contracts with the Enterprise business - When GF fix their production lines to a reasonable volume we will see our 8 core Phen.. erm Bulldozer reviews.

btw, BigCactus - welcome to the wonderful world of Tablets


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15068214*
> My bet - production due to low yields is all set on Interlagos - to satisfy contracts with the Enterprise business - When GF fix their production lines to a reasonable volume we will see our 8 core Phen.. erm Bulldozer reviews.
> 
> btw, BigCactus - welcome to the wonderful world of Tablets


That is why I'm not really concerned about losing the desktop. cod4 you can get 44fps I believe on the Thinkpad 425 with the a8 3500m. It's all about Llano apu. I do enjoy my C-50 apu. Been playing max payne 1 and 2 just fine


----------



## Benz

Hey, maybe Bulldozers will have unlocking module/core capability.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15066602*
> Perhaps it's time to buy a new joke detector?










lol fail on my part


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4Two0;15067133*
> LOL, dude I'll buy your rig for a reasonable price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, JF-AMD, can you confirm if desktop Bulldozers are in full production already? If it's against NDA to speak of it, I will understand.


no, I will not comment on client.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15069835*
> no, I will not comment on client.


and what about server?

you wrote this on september 7,

"They have not been in production for a couple of months. We have gone into production very recently. Production, start to finish, on a wafer, is more like 12-13 weeks."

what does it means in "simple words"?


----------



## Cyclonic

Ill wait till the 13th, if then nothing is ready ill say AMD goodbye, been waiting on a crap rig for over 6 weeks!

Cant even play the bf3 beta cause of AMD!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

BigCactus how much you want for your current rig that you will be selling after today?


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Ill wait till the 13th, if then nothing is ready ill say AMD goodbye, been waiting on a crap rig for over 6 weeks!

Cant even play the bf3 beta cause of AMD!


Yea its a wait a little too long.

Is this 13th remotely real or did someone just make this up and there it goes...?


----------



## macca_dj

So how many people are going to be waiting for the release of the BD FX-8170 Q1 2012 ? 
Clocked at 3900Ghz Turbo 4500GHz


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15070471*
> So how many people are going to be waiting for the release of the BD FX-8170 Q1 2012 ?
> Clocked at 3900Ghz Turbo 4500GHz


Just get an 8150 and OC it to an 8170. Should be pretty easy to do.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15070519*
> Just get an 8150 and OC it to an 8170. Should be pretty easy to do.


Well i think the 8120 would be good also, if they clock really good i c no reason to go 50 or 70 when they got the same amount of cache, but for that we need reviews!


----------



## blabla125

bigcactus is in denial:typer:


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Well i think the 8120 would be good also, if they clock really good i c no reason to go 50 or 70 when they got the same amount of cache, but for that we need reviews!


Is the 8120 95 TDP or 125 TDP? I was thinking it was 95 so I left it off. But, I have no idea what the 95TDP vs 125TDP means for OC'ing. I've read conflicting posts so I didn't want to throw out any recommendations I can't back up


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


So how many people are going to be waiting for the release of the BD FX-8170 Q1 2012 ? 
Clocked at 3900Ghz Turbo 4500GHz


Nah, I'll get an 8150 and when BD-E shows up, I'll give the rig to my kids and buy me a new one


----------



## Cord

Refreshing as many pages as possible around the web today, hoping for some Opteron 4200 series news (if the 26th Sep announcement rumours are to be believed). All I want to know is how much the 4200 processors will cost, and if a bit too expensive whether they will drop into a Supermicro H8DCL-iF motherboard later if I grab a couple of 4180's at first with a simple BIOS update. Supermicro posted a new bios on Saturday (1.0a) but didn't say what changed. I'm guessing motherboard companies will announce their 4200/6200 BIOS upgrades only once the NDA is lifted.

Got a couple thousand quid burning a hole in my pocket waiting to build a 32GB, 12/16 core server for vSphere 5 or Windows 2008 R2 Datacentre for my home lab. Been waiting for 2 months now.

Not a lot out there to read up on for the home user wanting Opterons, its all FX this FX that, or how Cray bought up all the Interlagos chips. I could use some Opteron news today, its not as if I have a choice to go with Intel with their 2P Xeon prices.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


Is the 8120 95 TDP or 125 TDP? I was thinking it was 95 so I left it off. But, I have no idea what the 95TDP vs 125TDP means for OC'ing. I've read conflicting posts so I didn't want to throw out any recommendations I can't back up










There will 2 versions of the 8120 the 95 and 125TDP


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blabla125;15070731*
> bigcactus is in denial:typer:


He's still got some time left









Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;15071089*
> There will 2 versions of the 8120 the 95 and 125TDP


Haha well I still wouldn't know the affects on overclocking 95TDP vs 125TDP so get an 8120 125TDP and OC to 8170


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


He's still got some time left









Countdown to BigCactus selling his desktop


hahaha lmao


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


and what about server?

you wrote this on september 7,

"They have not been in production for a couple of months. We have gone into production very recently. Production, start to finish, on a wafer, is more like 12-13 weeks."

what does it means in "simple words"?


In simple words:

1. We have revenueable shipments of server parts
2. If you give Dresden a blank wafer, about 12-13 weeks later Singapore will have production parts. So, if ~Sept 7th we were shipping production parts, then about 12-13 weeks earlier the design passed validation and was released to production.

Nothing in any of my statements should be tied to client products, only server.


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Nothing in any of my statements should be tied to client products, only server.


John, we all really appreciate you offering up what information that you can. It's a shame that some people give you a hard time.

I'm curious about something and I'll bet the question has been asked before, but I don't have the energy to read through thousands of posts. Is there a head of the consumer/desktop marketing division who would be willing to post information here? I understand that you may only speak for server parts, but that's not really the main focus of this forum. I know the cores are essentially the same between Interlagos and Zambezi, but it would be cool if your info was augmented by info directly from the consumer/desktop marketing division.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


In simple words:

1. We have revenueable shipments of server parts
2. If you give Dresden a blank wafer, about 12-13 weeks later Singapore will have production parts. So, if ~Sept 7th we were shipping production parts, then about 12-13 weeks earlier the design passed validation and was released to production.

Nothing in any of my statements should be tied to client products, only server.


Well i can only hold thumbs that production starts up at full throttle (or whatever the issue is) and you bring the Beast.. Bulldozer out asap and it was worth the wait








Seriously don't want to go intel on my home PC (amd since K5), and the 2 CAD systems screaming for an update at work.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *breenemeister*


John, we all really appreciate you offering up what information that you can. It's a shame that some people give you a hard time.

I'm curious about something and I'll bet the question has been asked before, but I don't have the energy to read through thousands of posts. Is there a head of the consumer/desktop marketing division who would be willing to post information here? I understand that you may only speak for server parts, but that's not really the main focus of this forum. I know the cores are essentially the same between Interlagos and Zambezi, but it would be cool if your info was augmented by info directly from the consumer/desktop marketing division.


I do this on my own, not on behalf of the company. Based on the harassment that I take both on forums and in my inbox, I can understand why someone doesn't want to address this from a client side, it would be even worse for them.


----------



## FurryCreatures

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I do this on my own, not on behalf of the company. Based on the harassment that I take both on forums and in my inbox, I can understand why someone doesn't want to address this from a client side, it would be even worse for them.



I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that I do appreciate the insight that you give. You have rules (orders?) to follow, but having someone who can give us at least some information (even if that information is that you cant give us any information) is better than us having to rely solely on rumors and everyone thinking that they're true.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I do this on my own, not on behalf of the company.


 You mean you read all the forums and post messages in your free time? That you dont get paid for this job? If you are being harassed, you should at least get some money for it, especially if reasons for harassment are not your fault!


----------



## soth7676

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I do this on my own, not on behalf of the company. Based on the harassment that I take both on forums and in my inbox, I can understand why someone doesn't want to address this from a client side, it would be even worse for them.


I can see it from both sides here... For one john, the continual delays and leaked, yet faked, news and benchies coming out from others, has those that are waiting for BD upset and frustrated....

HOWEVER the infantile raging, fanboyism and threats to switch to intel, is at times bordering on the insane...

I am not saying you should break NDA for us john, but this current policy of being so tightlipped that the client side community feels slighted, is not helping your company one bit.... Just something you might wish to tell your bosses is all...

Yes I do sport a intel system currently but I have a CHV, awaiting its BD chip and a couple of 7950s to go with my all AMD build....

I do hope the BD chip does well in sales and performance...I wanna see you guys keep intel from getting too complacent like last time....

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


In simple words:

1. We have revenueable shipments of server parts
2. If you give Dresden a blank wafer, about 12-13 weeks later Singapore will have production parts. So, if ~Sept 7th we were shipping production parts, then about 12-13 weeks earlier the design passed validation and was released to production.

Nothing in any of my statements should be tied to client products, only server.


thank you very much for the reply.
from shipping to real avalability, or launch, how many days?
I dont know if you can reply, I'll appreciate your help anyway.


----------



## adadk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I do this on my own, not on behalf of the company. Based on the harassment that I take both on forums and in my inbox, I can understand why someone doesn't want to address this from a client side, it would be even worse for them.


I hope you get free hardware at work for all the crap you put up with at least.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soth7676*


Yes I do sport a intel system currently but I have a CHV, awaiting its BD chip and a couple of 7950s to go with my all AMD build....










you have a couple HD 7950's ?
















Edit: oh you are awaiting a couple HD 7950's









I just wish AMD would throw us a bone here to give us an update on whats happening and a better idea of when we can expect BD.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


You mean you read all the forums and post messages in your free time? That you dont get paid for this job? If you are being harassed, you should at least get some money for it, especially if reasons for harassment are not your fault!


yes. That is why most posts are at lunch, before work, evenings, or between meetings.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


thank you very much for the reply.
from shipping to real avalability, or launch, how many days?
I dont know if you can reply, I'll appreciate your help anyway.


no comment on that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adadk*


I hope you get free hardware at work for all the crap you put up with at least.


You wouldn't be impressed. I can get anything I want, but I have pretty pedestrian tastes when it comes to hardware. Nothing fancy.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soth7676*


I can see it from both sides here... For one john, the continual delays and leaked, yet faked, news and benchies coming out from others, has those that are waiting for BD upset and frustrated....

HOWEVER the infantile raging, fanboyism and threats to switch to intel, is at times bordering on the insane...

I am not saying you should break NDA for us john, but this current policy of being so tightlipped that the client side community feels slighted, is not helping your company one bit.... Just something you might wish to tell your bosses is all...

Yes I do sport a intel system currently but I have a CHV, awaiting its BD chip and a couple of 7950s to go with my all AMD build....

I do hope the BD chip does well in sales and performance...I wanna see you guys keep intel from getting too complacent like last time....

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk



amd gets more with deals with cray or governments .. than us in the client space

please explain how a few thousands people will have an impact on millions or big bucks contract for university supercomputer and such


----------



## SCollins

JFAMD, what would be nice is something, a bone, becuase the romur mill is going to poison the well.


----------



## MojoW

Don 't pressure the man


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


yes. That is why most posts are at lunch, before work, evenings, or between meetings.


you forgot, John: Weekends too.

I have seen John logged into OCN on weekends on more than one occasion in this thread replying.

It's nice to have someone who will actually be here on his own time.

Thanks again, John.


----------



## Cyclonic

Its nice that John post here, but we dont gain anything from him, he cant say anything or he wont, so he is just a normal person posting stuff, or dodging questions.

If the FX line should fail i really hope they fire the entire PR department of AMD.

Worked @ game companys and i know what a NDA is, but i also know how stupid some people in PR are.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


JFAMD, what would be nice is something, a bone, becuase the romur mill is going to poison the well.


well i saw this by Richard Wargo at S/A who is an AMD employee as well,so maybe AMD are playing the mis-information game?if so then kudos AMD well played









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rich wargo*


AMD is taking great pains to see that if the real information somehow gets leaked, it'll be *buried by a mining truck load of crap "leaks".*

It's called *disinformation* and is a very helpful tactic when you want to keep something secret.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Its nice that John post here, but we dont gain anything from him, he cant say anything or he wont, so he is just a normal person posting stuff, or dodging questions.

If the FX line should fail i really hope they fire the entire PR department of AMD.

Worked @ game companys and i know what a NDA is, but i also know how stupid some people in PR are.


so if you know what an nda is why do you even post stuff like this???


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


So how many people are going to be waiting for the release of the BD FX-8170 Q1 2012 ? 
Clocked at 3900Ghz Turbo 4500GHz


4.5THz processor!?!?!?!?!?!

SIGN ME UP!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15075444*
> well i saw this by Richard Wargo at S/A who is an AMD employee as well,so maybe AMD are playing the mis-information game?if so then kudos AMD well played:thumb:


Rich is not an AMD employee.

And we don't do misinformation.

I have answered hundreds of legitimate questions on this board. Those that say that I don't give any information probably didn't read the first post at the beginning of the thread where I laid out the things that I can't comment on.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15076538*
> Rich is not an AMD employee.
> 
> And we don't do misinformation.
> 
> I have answered hundreds of legitimate questions on this board. Those that say that I don't give any information probably didn't read the first post at the beginning of the thread where I laid out the things that I can't comment on.


We appreciate what info you have shared, but I really think given the public whipping BD is taking at the hand of Intel marketing, its either time to play your hand and call their bluff, or just make some type of basic announcements about availability.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15076578*
> We appreciate what info you have shared, but I really think given the public whipping BD is taking at the hand of Intel marketing, its either time to play your hand and call their bluff, or just make some type of basic announcements about availability.


This "public whipping" is just a bunch of impatient brats trying every tactic they can to get what they want. And when they don't get what they want they jump up and down and start crying that AMD is being so mean to them. It's absurd.


----------



## pale_neon

So is it confirmed we get a FX belt buckle with every 8150?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15076538*
> Rich is not an AMD employee.
> 
> And we don't do misinformation.


my bad,i thought i saw him or others say he worked for AMD and in his sig where it says..
"Especially the alleged company of which I am an alleged employee."

so i guess with my bad info my equation of 1+1 was really 0+1









P.S:does he work for GF? he seems to say "we" a lot when talking GF


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;15077084*
> So is it confirmed we get a FX belt buckle with every 8150?


What in the world?? How would a belt buckle be related to BD in any way?? (yes I saw the mystery image months ago)

*New slogan with belt buckle:*

Keep your belt on, you wont be whoppin anyone with your BD


----------



## Kazumi

I'll be going with the 8150 myself. The overclocking looks very open. So I'll more then likely attempt a 5Ghz OC when I get my hands on one.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15071205*
> Haha well I still wouldn't know the affects on overclocking 95TDP vs 125TDP so get an 8120 125TDP and OC to 8170


95w TDP means it puts out less heat, assuming the same clocks, etc, it'll clock better under water or air.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15074378*
> amd gets more with deals with cray or governments .. than us in the client space
> 
> please explain how a few thousands people will have an impact on millions or big bucks contract for university supercomputer and such


University supercomputers "and such" have to be approved by the budgetary committee.... a few thousand people may be on those committee's and their personal bias about companies WILL affect WHICH corporation WE buy from.

Their PR is doing a screw UP JOB. You know how many AMD commercials I've seen in the past year on TV or even on HULU OR anywhere in public media? 0 , less than 1,

You know how many intel commercials we see? Their PR sucks and hiding information or even ALLOWING misinformation (by not suing or blacklisting those that have released information such as leaked benchmarks that they claim are false) is not doing them any favors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;15075091*
> Its nice that John post here, but we dont gain anything from him, he cant say anything or he wont, so he is just a normal person posting stuff, or dodging questions.
> 
> If the FX line should fail i really hope they fire the entire PR department of AMD.
> 
> Worked @ game companys and i know what a NDA is, but i also know how stupid some people in PR are.


THIS
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15075471*
> so if you know what an nda is why do you even post stuff like this???


Because sometimes the NDA does more harm than good, especially when your competitor is running commercials all over hell's half acre and you're busy hiding anything pertanent about your newest line which could make or break your company. Enthusiasts bail by the truckload to go to your competitor and who do you think grandma, the budget committee, your neighbors, and etc. ask when its time to buy a computer? Typically enthusiasts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15076719*
> This "public whipping" is just a bunch of impatient brats trying every tactic they can to get what they want. And when they don't get what they want they jump up and down and start crying that AMD is being so mean to them. It's absurd.


I don't consider the entire IT department at a major Division 1 University begging the budget committee to give up on interlagos and buy intel over the summer "a bunch of impatient brats." I also, do not think that most of the people in this thread are. I think most of them have been patient over the past 4 YEARS and are getting a little frustrated at AMD. The last 6 months have been a PR fiasco. Whoever heads PR at AMD should be fired and replaced. Their policy should change.


----------



## StarDestroyer

BD should be released before winter in northern hemisphere


----------



## Darkpriest667

T minus 8 hours until cactus sells some lucky person his rig.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15077928*
> University supercomputers "and such" have to be approved by the budgetary committee.... a few thousand people may be on those committee's and their personal bias about companies WILL affect WHICH corporation WE buy from.
> 
> Because sometimes the NDA does more harm than good, especially when your competitor is running commercials all over hell's half acre and you're busy hiding anything pertanent about your newest line which could make or break your company. Enthusiasts bail by the truckload to go to your competitor and who do you think grandma, the budget committee, your neighbors, and etc. ask when its time to buy a computer? Typically enthusiasts.
> .


nda's are nda's and that's your opinion that they might damage amd's sales ... if amd makes their predicted sales and even more to me it didnt damage them .. its how sales dept will look at it .. nothing else ... until the company takes a bit hit they wont change their method of working

speaking about universities budget being decided by thousands of people is highly foolish ... i somehow doubt that some of these comitee have 1000 people running the budget .. that wouldnt be a good use of the budget in the first place

and anyway ... wouldnt they go with the highest computing power per$ and that includes overall power draw ...

with the opteron tuneable tdp it gives amd an edge .


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15078905*
> nda's are nda's and that's your opinion that they might damage amd's sales ... if amd makes their predicted sales and even more to me it didnt damage them .. its how sales dept will look at it .. nothing else ... until the company takes a bit hit they wont change their method of working
> 
> speaking about universities budget being decided by thousands of people is highly foolish ... i somehow doubt that some of these comitee have 1000 people running the budget .. that wouldnt be a good use of the budget in the first place
> 
> and anyway ... wouldnt they go with the highest computing power per$ and that includes overall power draw ...
> 
> with the opteron tuneable tdp it gives amd an edge .


I meant that any of those thousands of people could be on the budgetary committee.. typically its 5 to 11 people. Forgive me for not making it painfully clear to you there isn't a thousand people on a budget committee.

AMD has 5% of the server market.. its been steadily dropping.

If AMD's server sales were indeed within the company's expectations, it can only mean the company was expecting to be pummeled. According to IDC's figures, Intel finished Q2 with 93.5 percent of the server market, up 3.3 percent, while AMD's share decreased to 6.5 percent, down by the same amount. That's rather depressing news considering AMD's 12-core Magny-Cours (and dramatically reduced prices) were available through the entirety of Q2 with Lisbon popping up right at the end of the quarter. During its conference call AMD noted that it expected to realize the "full value" of its new server products in Q3-if the company's server shipments don't recover, Sunnyvale may be stuck in the doldrums until Bulldozer launches sometime in 2011.

SOURCE IDC

So they are expecting to lose market share? I mean lets be honest. Opteron has been out for some time and while they were excellent server chips in their day the architecture is fairly outdated.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I seriously hope AMD doesn't pull another Barcelona/Agena.
Intel whooped them hard on that one.

I have money set aside for BD, where's the product AMD?.


----------



## 2010rig

3 Hours & 45 Minutes to go before Big Cactus *joins the* "I was disappointed by AMD, and Now I can no longer post in the Bulldozer Blog is Live Thread - Plus I'm selling my rig and will never use a desktop" *club*.

He'll be the founding and only member.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15079350*
> 3 Hours & 45 Minutes to go before Big Cactus *joins the* "I was disappointed by AMD, and Now I can no longer post in the Bulldozer Blog is Live Thread - Plus I'm selling my rig and will never use a desktop" *club*.
> 
> He'll be the founding and only member.


Actually according to the unofficial official countdown link

http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdown.html?year=2011&month=9&date=26&hrs=23&ts=24&tz=-600&min=59&sec=59&lang=en&show=dhms&mode=r&cdir=down&bgcolor=%23CCFFFF&fgcolor=%23000000&title=Countdown%20To%20BigCactus%20giving%20up%20his%20Desktop

He has 6 hours and some change =)


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15079363*
> Actually according to the unofficial official countdown link
> 
> http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdown.html?year=2011&month=9&date=26&hrs=23&ts=24&tz=-600&min=59&sec=59&lang=en&show=dhms&mode=r&cdir=down&bgcolor=%23CCFFFF&fgcolor=%23000000&title=Countdown%20To%20BigCactus%20giving%20up%20his%20Desktop
> 
> He has 6 hours and some change =)


Did Big Cactus quote the Gregorian or the Julian calendar in his prediction??

Or, possibly the Chinese calendar, as, If I'm not mistaken, this is the year of the turtle (maybe) which might explain AMD's slowness in releasing bulldozer.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15079363*
> Actually according to the unofficial official countdown link
> 
> http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdown.html?year=2011&month=9&date=26&hrs=23&ts=24&tz=-600&min=59&sec=59&lang=en&show=dhms&mode=r&cdir=down&bgcolor=%23CCFFFF&fgcolor=%23000000&title=Countdown%20To%20BigCactus%20giving%20up%20his%20Desktop
> 
> He has 6 hours and some change =)


Oh, I thought we were going by Pacific time?

Sure he can have the 6 hours, anyone with half a brain knows September 26th does not fall in Q4.









We should have a guessing pool of when BD will launch.

I'm leaning towards late October, early November.

My 2nd guess is, any time before December 31st.


----------



## newnub123

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlwIFFHrNW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlwIFFHrNW4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlwIFFHrNW4[/ame[/URL]] so this i call OFFICALE SO AMD IS RELEASE IN MIDDEL OF OCTOBER !!!! SEE this interview!!! nice hhahahaah i told u 4weeks(or 2-3weeks) ago in OCT







() i am no cactus








ps ENJOYYYYY


----------



## Chocosuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;15079422*
> Did Big Cactus quote the Gregorian or the Julian calendar in his prediction??
> 
> Or, possibly the Chinese calendar, as, If I'm not mistaken, this is the year of the turtle (maybe) which might explain AMD's slowness in releasing bulldozer.


Year of the hare/rabbit actually...lol.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15079075*
> I meant that any of those thousands of people could be on the budgetary committee.. typically its 5 to 11 people. Forgive me for not making it painfully clear to you there isn't a thousand people on a budget committee.
> 
> AMD has 5% of the server market.. its been steadily dropping.
> 
> If AMD's server sales were indeed within the company's expectations, it can only mean the company was expecting to be pummeled. According to IDC's figures, Intel finished Q2 with 93.5 percent of the server market, up 3.3 percent, while AMD's share decreased to 6.5 percent, down by the same amount. That's rather depressing news considering AMD's 12-core Magny-Cours (and dramatically reduced prices) were available through the entirety of Q2 with Lisbon popping up right at the end of the quarter. During its conference call AMD noted that it expected to realize the "full value" of its new server products in Q3-if the company's server shipments don't recover, Sunnyvale may be stuck in the doldrums until Bulldozer launches sometime in 2011.
> 
> SOURCE IDC
> 
> So they are expecting to lose market share? I mean lets be honest. Opteron has been out for some time and while they were excellent server chips in their day the architecture is fairly outdated.


opterons is a marketing name .. and let's be real here ... intel owns pretty much everything .. and if amd can survive and be profitable who are we to proclaim their techniques dont work


----------



## crshbndct

so. according to that interview, which could also be fake, (and i will view it as such unless jf-amd can confirm that those two guys were actually amd employees) october is the time frame for release to the middle east market.

so i am guessing late october/early november.

suits me fine. i am building a new rig at the end of november. i am going to have nearly unlimited funds for it, so i will have a nice selection of options then


----------



## BigCactus

Did it release or what?









I'm gonna miss my killer sig rig. I might as well put my tablet specs instead


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *2010rig*   Oh, I thought we were going by Pacific time?

Sure he can have the 6 hours, anyone with half a brain knows September 26th does not fall in Q4.









We should have a guessing pool of when BD will launch.

I'm leaning towards late October, early November.

My 2nd guess is, any time before December 31st.







  
For Interlagos, I'm betting on the week of October 10-14, based on a general trend of 5 weeks from shipping to launch for AMD server cpus. I think I'll pass on staking anything on that guess though









Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *crshbndct*   so. according to that interview, which could also be fake, (and i will view it as such unless jf-amd can confirm that those two guys were actually amd employees) october is the time frame for release to the middle east market.

so i am guessing late october/early november.

suits me fine. i am building a new rig at the end of november. i am going to have nearly unlimited funds for it, so i will have a nice selection of options then  
Well I was skeptical too, but Raymond Dumbeck appears in this    
 video  



 
 on AMD's official AMDUnprocessed account, and is identified as a "senior product marketing manager". Does he actually say the middle of October anywhere in that video? Or just October time frame.


----------



## Canis-X

He states mid Oct.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15080086*
> Did it release or what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna miss my killer sig rig. I might as well put my tablet specs instead


Nope, let me get your paypal info.


----------



## swindle

Times well with BF3...

*IF!*

It actually does release, and it performs.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


T minus 8 hours until cactus sells some lucky person his rig.


There is still a chance.









Lucky? 915mhz core lucky on the gtx470...muhahahaha.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Nope, let me get your paypal info.










I'm not selling the card by itself. If I do then I'll never be able to sell the rest of the system.







. I've been dying to put a 128gb ssd in this tablet so now is my chance I guess.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15080223*
> Times well with BF3...
> 
> *IF!*
> 
> It actually does release, and it performs.


If BF3 releases? I suppose it might get delayed to Q1 2012. Anything's possible.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I think he said if bulldozer releases, but I could be wrong.

@BC you'll never sell the whole rig, part out now imo.


----------



## RAMP4NT

I just bought a 2500k for a SFF lanbox I needed immediately, I feel so dirty







But knowing that mini itx probably won't be supported for a looong time on BD I had to, come on BD my main rig is a waitin!

JF-AMD, does AMD have a hand in the release time of less used form factor Motherboards? I'm not really looking for a release date, just wether AMD for example tells Asus, "Hey we would really like a mini itx AM3+ to break into that niche market...Or do you have to rely on the Motherboard companies accomodating what they want to?


----------



## Canis-X

Oh, let the man keep his rig. No sense in depriving the man because he was extremely hopeful that AMD would pull through.

Cactus, I won't think any different of you if you decide to back out. Might give you a hard time every now and then, but most certainly won't think any less of you.


----------



## blabla125

yah guys i wouldnt want to sell my pc and get a tablet!


----------



## swindle

I was talking about BD btw









lol


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


I just bought a 2500k for a SFF lanbox I needed immediately, I feel so dirty







But knowing that mini itx probably won't be supported for a looong time on BD I had to, come on BD my main rig is a waitin!

JF-AMD, does AMD have a hand in the release time of less used form factor Motherboards? I'm not really looking for a release date, just wether AMD for example tells Asus, "Hey we would really like a mini itx AM3+ to break into that niche market...Or do you have to rely on the Motherboard companies accomodating what they want to?



amd build the chip and asus make whatever they want or can with it


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Actually according to the unofficial official countdown link

http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdown.h...0his%20Desktop

He has 6 hours and some change =)


Time is up







So where can i order my FX 8150? Or where are the reviews?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crshbndct*


so. according to that interview, which could also be fake, (and i will view it as such unless jf-amd can confirm that those two guys were actually amd employees) october is the time frame for release to the middle east market.

so i am guessing late october/early november.

suits me fine. i am building a new rig at the end of november. i am going to have nearly unlimited funds for it, so i will have a nice selection of options then


I won't comment on the video, but that is Raymond, he is in the cube on the other side of the wall from me, we have to deal with each others' annoying voices all day long.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Tell Raymond OCN says hi, and thank you for the bit of information he provided in the video









Edit: just wanted to add. Though not confirmed it is appreciated


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Tell Raymond OCN says hi, and thank you for the bit of information he provided in the video









Edit: just wanted to add. Though not confirmed it is appreciated










Its the same when your cat walks inside the house and drops a dead mouse infront of you. Well its something you get but what do you gain from it?

When someone like John sits 1 meter next to him isnt even allowed to confirm it









So we still know nothing.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Its the same when your cat walks inside the house and drops a dead mouse infront of you. Well its something you get but what do you gain from it?

When someone like John sits 1 meter next to him isnt even allowed to confirm it









So we still know nothing.



We kind of do since Raymond "UNOFFICIALLY" stated middle of October for the FX chips, in that video. So we have an idea of when AMD "MIGHT" launch BD.







AMD has not said anything offically so we can only take what bits of info we receive with a grain of salt.


----------



## Schmuckley

..where's that guy who was gonna jump off the hilton if bd wasn't released today? (hope he wasn't serious)









well..time to up the cooling solution..buy other things..INTEL mobo..ssd..etc..

i've liked amd since the 586 dys..feeling kinda let-down here


----------



## Particle

It's worth noting that those slides from a few days back have "Under embargo until October 12" on them. Two members over at XS also mentioned their local Microcenter stores each told them respectively that they'd be able to sell FX CPUs on the 12th. The video mentioned in this thread from yesterday says "middle of October". I'd say the 12th is looking like a respectable date.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I won't comment on the video, but that is Raymond, he is in the cube on the other side of the wall from me, we have to deal with each others' annoying voices all day long.


Thats why I work alone. I like it that way for a reason. Still hate dealing with the general public.


----------



## macca_dj

Ive read they are due for release on the 12 October,

Just wondering what the pricings going to be here in the UK ?


----------



## blabla125

sorry jf but i read a while ago, somewhere, that the higher end bd series may come with watercooling is that true?was it ever discussed ? if you cannot answer i understand.


----------



## JF-AMD

I am not client


----------



## blabla125

oh


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


sorry jf but i read a while ago, somewhere, that the higher end bd series may come with watercooling is that true?was it ever discussed ? if you cannot answer i understand.


I remember seeing this rumor as well but I am pretty sure it was debunked. The same rumor appeared for SB-E chips a couple weeks ago


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I remember seeing this rumor as well but I am pretty sure it was debunked. The same rumor appeared for SB-E chips a couple weeks ago


I don't know about AMD, but I saw pics of an Intel setup at a trade show (maybe it was IDF) that had a new board (quad channel?) and they had the Antec (what Corsair used to use?) liquid cooler on it.

I would like to get a FX + LCS combo from AMD. It makes sense to me that techheads are going to want to water cool their performance rig. Some might wanna build custom loops, but I think many would like to get a CPU + LCS so they can put it together and get to tweaking.

We'll see...on launch...or after...


----------



## breenemeister

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


We kind of do since Raymond "UNOFFICIALLY" stated middle of October for the FX chips, in that video. So we have an idea of when AMD "MIGHT" launch BD.







AMD has not said anything offically so we can only take what bits of info we receive with a grain of salt.


If you put this together with the rumor about the i7-2700K being launched on October 24th, it makes a little sense. To me, it seems the i7-2700K is just there to grab attention, it's not a huge percentage increase and anyone who has a 2600K and is willing to overclock really already has a 2700K. I would think Intel would have a pretty good idea of the Bulldozer launch date. It could be a somewhat paper launch on the 12th with full availability later. Intel could then pop-up on the 24th right in the thick of things with the 2700K to grab some headlines and a little attention. Or, the 12th could be full availability and Intel is a little late to the party. Who knows?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


I don't know about AMD, but I saw pics of an Intel setup at a trade show (maybe it was IDF) that had a new board (quad channel?) and they had the Antec (what Corsair used to use?) liquid cooler on it.

I would like to get a FX + LCS combo from AMD. It makes sense to me that techheads are going to want to water cool their performance rig. Some might wanna build custom loops, but I think many would like to get a CPU + LCS so they can put it together and get to tweaking.

We'll see...on launch...or after...










 I'd happy with a waterblock/air cooler combo or without both. I mean some of us already have good air coolers etc.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I'd happy with a waterblock/air cooler combo or without both. I mean some of us already have good air coolers etc.


Yeah, I already have a H50 laying on the shelf waiting for FX too.

Just saying...I could use that elsewhere and get (hopefully) a little better one combo'ed with the CPU from AMD.

Otherwise, I'll just use my current spare LCS when I get the FX chip.


----------



## blabla125

Ow well i will only have enough money to buy bd ,crosshair and my gpu by christmas so i wont be able to get it when it come out...i live in south africa







so stuff is more expensive ,releases later and bad warranty service and what is considered to be a truck load of cash for allowance in south africa i get what is equal to 25 dollars a month







so it takes me a long time to make money and i cant even order from newegg!







It makes me mad


----------



## Canis-X

Got this on a thread I started that also speaks to BD being released on Oct 12th (at the end of the thread).....

http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/1122432-got-problem-does-anyone-have-ek.html


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark4d;15064083*
> hay have you guy seen this yet this guy just went full ****** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x4MHUgMlOI


*Never go full ******
*[ame]http://vimeo.com/3945205[/ame]


----------



## BallaTheFeared

So ummm...

..

..

Just another "ES"?

Seems to do the clocks it's suppose to, however the score looks terrible for eight cores though...

Looks like 23/11k to me... Ugh.


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15087956*
> www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=Aale7YSvhJk#t=2s


aka obr


----------



## StepanPepan

I have no idea what he has now. It might be retail.

The score looks like 11 178.

I just ran it with 2500K clocked to 4.7 GHz and got 13 750. That might be 10 532 at 3.6 GHz. That would mean that Bulldozer core is 2 times weaker than SB core, when all cores are fully loaded...


----------



## tvr

I hate all this waiting/guessing. Lol


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15088391*
> I have no idea what he has now. It might be retail.
> 
> The score looks like 11 178.
> 
> I just ran it with 2500K clocked to 4.7 GHz and got 13 750. That might be 10 532 at 3.6 GHz. That would mean that Bulldozer core is 2 times weaker than SB core, when all cores are fully loaded...


No thats an ES for sure. And if thats the performance from the April ES or the May ES then we can expect after the summer delay the retail version will perform even better. considering the price point this video actually made me happy. You'll also notice its the 8150 stock speed of 3.6 Ghz.. Im sure if it was clocked to 4.7 Ghz it would rape that SB.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15088620*
> No thats an ES for sure. And if thats the performance from the April ES or the May ES then we can expect after the summer delay the retail version will perform even better. considering the price point this video actually made me happy. You'll also notice its the 8150 stock speed of 3.6 Ghz.. Im sure if it was clocked to 4.7 Ghz it would rape that SB.


Reason I just sold my 2500K!


----------



## whitekidney

BD not coming with 8 actual cores?

Quote from norwegian hardware site (Google translated)
Quote:


> As I understand it took AMD and copied a small piece of the core, in this way, the multi-threading support in hardware and it is better use of space and power. It is slightly better than Hyperthreading, but not better than the actual cores
> 
> In other words, it sounds more realistic to expect 30-40% boost from four to eight threads for me, but we'll see about a month. All the funds they have put into the development of BD has to be earned


Quote:


> From a micro-architectural point of view, there is some nice ideas in Bulldozer. But it seems they failed to finally implement what they expected at first. The concept of "cores" for Bulldozer is just a marketing BS. A FX-8150 is a 4-cores CMT-based CPU with a dual Integer cluster. CMT architecture is not something new and noboby called a cluster a "core" before. AMD just renamed a core "a module" and a cluster "a core" in order to amaze ppls with "8-core CPU !!". Now what's next ? Calling an ALU "a core" ? After all, why not ? So the FX-8150 could be a 16-cores CPU as well.
> 
> Edit : As a proof, if you look at their own patent ([URL=http:/url]http://www.freepaten...20080209173.pdf[/url]), you see they know exactly what is a "Core" and what is a "Cluster". So why calling a cluster a core ? For marketing purpose of course, but that's still BS


----------



## tvr

No for 2600k


----------



## Usario

Mods, can you please ban OBR discussion in this thread?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15088792*
> Mods, can you please ban OBR discussion in this thread?


They hardly can, video is ON TOPIC and almost certainly not fake.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15088774*
> BD not coming with 8 actual cores?
> 
> Quote from norwegian hardware site (Google translated)


He understands it wrong









Edit:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/amd/hotchips2010/bulldozeruarch.jpg
does this look like 'a small part' - only 256bit Floating points can kill the performance else it should be near 90% the performance of 2 pure cores.


----------



## baltar

Take this with a grain of salt - I Got a preorder for the fx-8150p with Shopblt.. apparently they didn't cancel me when they took that cpu off their site. They sent a email saying the availability for the FX-8150P is going to be on December 3.

I really hope their bad record for expected release dates holds true and it gets released sooner...


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15088819*
> They hardly can, video is ON TOPIC and *almost certainly* not fake.


What?

OBR admitted to trolling the entire tech community by posting faked benchmarks long ago. While I am not going to speculate on the actual performance of the zambezi chip, you need to realize that crying wolf so many times will just get you eaten.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15088936*
> He understands it wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/amd/hotchips2010/bulldozeruarch.jpg
> does this look like 'a small part' - only 256bit Floating points can kill the performance else it should be near 90% the performance of 2 pure cores.


Performance doesn't decrease on 256bit...and the number is 80% of 2 CMP cores


----------



## JDTreece

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baltar;15089327*
> Take this with a grain of salt - I Got a preorder for the fx-8150p with Shopblt.. apparently they didn't cancel me when they took that cpu off their site. They sent a email saying the availability for the FX-8150P is going to be on December 3.
> 
> I really hope their bad record for expected release dates holds true and it gets released sooner...


I'm in the same boat, however my update email states that the warehouse will be receiving product on 12/01.

Yeah... I hope that's incorrect...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15088774*
> BD not coming with 8 actual cores?
> 
> Quote from norwegian hardware site (Google translated)


The FX 8xxx will have 8 cores,however since cores are clustered together,2 cores will probably perform up to 90% as well as 2 cores with their own resources.
I looked a few pages back and seen the video which states a unofficial release sometime in October.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAF_wit;15089335*
> What?
> 
> OBR admitted to trolling the entire tech community by posting faked benchmarks long ago. While I am not going to speculate on the actual performance of the zambezi chip, you need to realize that crying wolf so many times will just get you eaten.


Exactly,yet he still insists OBR stuff is factual,which makes me think he works for OBR or is OBR himself.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baltar;15089327*
> Take this with a grain of salt - I Got a preorder for the fx-8150p with Shopblt.. apparently they didn't cancel me when they took that cpu off their site. They sent a email saying the availability for the FX-8150P is going to be on December 3.
> 
> I really hope their bad record for expected release dates holds true and it gets released sooner...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JDTreece;15089562*
> I'm in the same boat, however my update email states that the warehouse will be receiving product on 12/01.
> 
> Yeah... I hope that's incorrect...


and a guy(erek) at TPU has an email saying 11/24/2011....WTH is up with shopblt? giving out random dates to all who ordered?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15089921*
> The FX 8xxx will have 8 cores,however since cores are clustered together,2 cores will probably perform up to 90% as well as 2 cores with their own resources.
> .












THE GAWD DARN NUMBER IS 80%!!!!!

I'm mad.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I have no idea what he has now. It might be retail.

The score looks like 11 178.

I just ran it with 2500K clocked to 4.7 GHz and got 13 750. That might be 10 532 at 3.6 GHz. That would mean that Bulldozer core is 2 times weaker than SB core, when all cores are fully loaded...


stop quoting obr

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


They hardly can, video is ON TOPIC and almost certainly not fake.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


The FX 8xxx will have 8 cores,however since cores are clustered together,2 cores will probably perform up to 90% as well as 2 cores with their own resources.
I looked a few pages back and seen the video which states a unofficial release sometime in October.

Exactly,yet he still insists OBR stuff is factual,which makes me think he works for OBR or is OBR himself.


i said it a while ago that he might actually be obr

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


and a guy(erek) at TPU has an email saying 11/24/2011....WTH is up with shopblt? giving out random dates to all who ordered?


shopblt is probably trolling people into not canceling their pre-orders ... shady business much??


----------



## Worple

Quote:



Originally Posted by *baltar*


Take this with a grain of salt - I Got a preorder for the fx-8150p with Shopblt.. apparently they didn't cancel me when they took that cpu off their site. They sent a email saying the availability for the FX-8150P is going to be on December 3.

I really hope their bad record for expected release dates holds true and it gets released sooner...


Will if it does come out in dec. I will have a nice box with AMD under the tree for me


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











THE GAWD DARN NUMBER IS 80%!!!!!

I'm mad.


80%? Sorry. But,if you notice the asterisk,it says based on benchmark simulations. Were those tests performed on a real BD processor?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


i said it a while ago that he might actually be obr


I knew someone said it awhile ago,I agree with you that he might be OBR.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


80%? Sorry. But,if you notice the asterisk,it says based on benchmark simulations. Were those tests performed on a real BD processor?


Sorry, but the number is 80%.

CMT with the second core not doing anything

100% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0%

CMT with the second core doing stuff

80% - 80% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75%

That is how the math works...

Now to point out this doesn't actually translate to actual performance

In all my data points show that you should see

100% - 90% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85%

In actual performance

Notice it isn't 90% all the time but it AVERAGES out 90% as sharing doesn't affect output


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Sorry, but the number is 80%.

CMT with the second core not doing anything

100% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0%

CMT with the second core doing stuff

80% - 80% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75%

That is how the math works...

Now to point out this doesn't actually translate to actual performance

In all my data points show that you should see

100% - 90% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85%

In actual performance

Notice it isn't 90% all the time but it AVERAGES out 90% as sharing doesn't affect output












JF said a module scales 180%, which means 90% for a single core.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*











JF said a module scales 180%, which means 90% for a single core.


90% of what is the real question ! that is in refrence to 2 fully resource consuming threads btw. It is not based on anything like being compared to a stars core.


----------



## proximo

I don't know how old that slide is but the fine print says "based on internal AMD *modeling* using benchmark simulations." My emphasis added.

JF-AMD has said at least once that it's closer to 90%.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











THE GAWD DARN NUMBER IS 80%!!!!!

I'm mad.


----------



## crshbndct

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I won't comment on the video, but that is Raymond, he is in the cube on the other side of the wall from me, we have to deal with each others' annoying voices all day long.


Thanks for confirming that for me.
It probably seems that I am a terribly cynical bloke doubting it, but with all the rubbish floating around on the net about BD, I suspect everything.


----------



## Phantom123

Well hopefully more and more things are multi threaded because judging from the slides single threaded performance doesn't look like Bulldozer strong point. All though clocks can increase dramatically if on single thread so I guess we shall see.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


They hardly can, video is ON TOPIC and almost certainly not fake.


It's not on topic when you're quoting a known liar and benchmark faker who has been banned from this forum for misleading the community. Kindly stop referring to OBR benches, they are not valid and do not classify as "on topic" here. You're just lowering yourself posting that crap here.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


Well hopefully more and more things are multi threaded because judging from the slides single threaded performance doesn't look like Bulldozer strong point. All though clocks can increase dramatically if on single thread so I guess we shall see.


Please, people stop saying this. A this has yet to be confirmed, B its just false false false. If you look at the design of the chip in any real detail, the core components all look faster and more powerful then stars cores.

My expectation is 20-35% improvement in IPC per core over stars clock for clock.


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


It's not on topic when you're quoting a known liar and benchmark faker who has been banned from this forum for misleading the community. Kindly stop referring to OBR benches, they are not valid and do not classify as "on topic" here. You're just lowering yourself posting that crap here.


Not just addressing Megacharge when I say this:

As it stands now, nothing if FACT but the Bulldozer Pre-launch FAQ which does not contain much for BD info.

The majority of this thread has been misleading from the get go due to the combination of AMD's delays, a few announcements from them and everyones opinions and statements.

WHY just pick on the ORB rumors? This entire thread is one big F'ing rumor and full of crap posts because very little concrete facts exist.

I am not defending ORB but if we did not see some of his info containing BD rumors, speculation and what not, this entire BD wait would be more of a bore than it is considering AMD's silence. I have seen more BS from members here than I have from ORB.

Think about it, 6468 posts exist in this thread







and very little is known about BD.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.

It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?

Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.

It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?

Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?



I noticed an improvement from 4 cores to 6 for folding


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.

It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?

Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


I just want an 8-core, for the sake of having one.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.

It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?

Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


For me, Rendering,Folding.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.

It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?

Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


If you chose AMD over Intel before SB came out, either:

> you can take advantage of six cores
> you're on a budget
> you're biased

Since the 2500k beats the 1100T in multithreaded, despite having 2 less cores, if you chose AMD over Intel after SB came out, either:

> you're waiting for BD and need a filler CPU
> you're on a REALLY tight budget
> you're more than biased, just a flat-out fanboy

EDIT: the point is. Unless you're on a tight budget or are waiting for BD, if you have AMD now, you need moar cores.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I'm going the AMD route because they don't waste die space on a crappy IGP. 
Sure that's not really a huge deal, but I'm weird that way.


----------



## looncraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


THE GAWD DARN NUMBER IS 80%!!!!!

I'm mad.


I have right from JF-AMD that the # is 90% or better when the module is fully loaded.

*Originally*, the stated numbers said 80% just to cover their







...

A good six months or more ago JF-AMD announced that the module overhead was discovered to be considerably lower than they expected, and only cost 7-8% when the module was fully loaded. Total.









I got the #s because, as a developer, I was trying to determine the new scheduling needs of bulldozer to optimize performance (if a loaded module costs 20% of performance, you MUST take that into consideration when scheduling threads on that CPU - or stand to lose a LOT of performance...).

The end result is that the shared L1 has an issue with cross invalidations resulting in thrashing / improper flushing which can cause a real harm to performance. This may only be a Linux issue, however, as I'm not privy to the innermost workings of the Windows kernel development.









==The loon


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *looncraz*


I have right from JF-AMD that the # is 90% or better when the module is fully loaded.

*Originally*, the stated numbers said 80% just to cover their







...

A good six months or more ago JF-AMD announced that the module overhead was discovered to be considerably lower than they expected, and only cost 7-8% when the module was fully loaded. Total.









I got the #s because, as a developer, I was trying to determine the new scheduling needs of bulldozer to optimize performance (if a loaded module costs 20% of performance, you MUST take that into consideration when scheduling threads on that CPU - or stand to lose a LOT of performance...).

The end result is that the shared L1 has an issue with cross invalidations resulting in thrashing / improper flushing which can cause a real harm to performance. This may only be a Linux issue, however, as I'm not privy to the innermost workings of the Windows kernel development.









==The loon


I didn't really buy the lowly tech statement from before. Always a pleasure to read your posts, thanks.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I'm going the AMD route because they don't waste die space on a crappy IGP. 
Sure that's not really a huge deal, but I'm weird that way.


So, do they waste die space on a crappy CPU? Llano has a good IGP and a crappy Athlon CPU, which is *technically* Sandy Bridge's competitor. Since they're both "APU's".

SB-E won't have an IGP, but of course that's also not Bulldozer's competitor, since they're not in the same price range either.


----------



## Kazumi

Bella, I want a 8 core just to have it. It's kinda the reason why I seem to buy new parts every 4-6 months. I just enjoy having updated parts...Don't let my sig fool you, I've been rather lazy on updating it >_>


----------



## xodsxboi215x

I don't know if these are real numbers or has been posted before. ENJOY!

http://www.maxishine.com.au/forums/v...p?f=40&t=19173


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Sorry, but the number is 80%.

CMT with the second core not doing anything

100% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0% - 95% - 0%

CMT with the second core doing stuff

80% - 80% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75% - 75%

That is how the math works...

Now to point out this doesn't actually translate to actual performance

In all my data points show that you should see

100% - 90% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85% - 95% - 85%

In actual performance

Notice it isn't 90% all the time but it AVERAGES out 90% as sharing doesn't affect output


51468% + - %rth56$ *sandwich#uegtf889% / 44 +&5% + $259 = no one will ever get a BD, i9ts delayed


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xodsxboi215x*


I don't know if these are real numbers or has been posted before. ENJOY!

http://www.maxishine.com.au/forums/v...p?f=40&t=19173


Percentages mean WHAT, exactly????

We need to see benchmark scores, not pretty graphics with misleading marketing hype.

*AMD claims its AMD FX 8150 processor is looking Intel's Core i7-980X in the eye in game tests, even edging past it in some DirectX 11 titles. It is performing on par with the Core i7-2600K in several popular CPU benchmarks ... the FX 8150 outperforms the i7-2600K by as much as 70%. Lastly, the pricing of the FX 8150 is confirmed to be around the $250 mark. Given this, and the fact that the Core i7-2600K is priced about $70 higher.*

Well, if they're going to admit that it outperforms, then the cat is out of the bag, so why not release the benchmark scores already?? If the price really is $250, then I this is my response....










Now that Intel finally has some real competition, we can finally see an end to outrageously priced Intel CPUs.


----------



## Kazumi

AMD broke the highest Ghz overclock world record a few weeks ago with 8.6Ghz on Liquid nitro on the 8150 I believe.


----------



## FurryCreatures

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xodsxboi215x*


I don't know if these are real numbers or has been posted before. ENJOY!

http://www.maxishine.com.au/forums/v...p?f=40&t=19173


From the webiste: 
Quote:



New slides from AMD leaked by way of Donim haber.


Everyone seems to think his stuff is no good? I see no reason to believe this. Especially after spotting his comparison of the FX8150 vs i7-2600k. I would LOVE for BD to be that powerful, but that just doesn't seem likely at all. Especially considering AMD noted a few FPS better in some game benchmark. (someone help me out with the source? or I'll edit later with it.) A few FPS better = up to 56x better? Nope, not buying it.

Edit: looks like the battle between the chips in game was against an i7 980X. I'm sure this link has been posted before, only reposting to provide evidence for my argument. (AKA sorry for the old news).
Source: http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-benc...pus/13571.html

Also - I just noticed that at no point in time did they mention that these tests were up against SB chips. just a comparably priced i5, and the 980x, which according to anandtech's bench's doesn't run games as well as the i7-2600k. Oh well, just a few more weeks until the updated rumored launch.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryCreatures;15095945*
> From the webiste:
> 
> *Everyone seems to think his stuff is no good? I see no reason to believe this. Especially after spotting his comparison of the FX8150 vs i7-2600k.* I would LOVE for BD to be that powerful, but that just doesn't seem likely at all. Especially considering AMD noted a few FPS better in some game benchmark. (someone help me out with the source? or I'll edit later with it.) A few FPS better = up to 56x better? Nope, not buying it.


I think you are confusing Donanimhaber with OBR. OBR fooled Donanimhaber with his fake benchmarks, but before that Donanimhaber was a pretty good site that got a lot of things right.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryCreatures;15095945*
> From the webiste:
> 
> A few FPS better = up to 56x better? Nope, not buying it.


Your referring to this chart. http://www.guru3d.com/news/amd-fx-8150-close-to-core-i7980x-and-core-i7-2600k-/









56X better in 3 out of 15 benchmarks. but the arrow is pointing to the right. Does it mean up to 56 times as many benchmarks? Why is the arrow pointing to the right?


----------



## FurryCreatures

The other benchmarks look a little more reasonable now that I actually look and read some more. I would edit my post, but that would make your guys' comments look strange.

This graph in particular shows something more along the lines of what I was expecting


----------



## Kazumi

To me, this just says...Suspisous. To big of a jump randomly.If it performance that well, awesome! But I am going to buy it either way.


----------



## aweir

Looks like 30% more unicorns MAX. I like unicorns, so I'm rating this thread 5 stars. Thanks AMD for giving us 30% more unicorns.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15094217*
> I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.
> 
> It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?
> 
> Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


Transcoding, compression and compiling all arguably will see improvements in terms of what I do.

That said, I'd probably see the biggest improvement from SB-e, especially for compression....quad channel ftw with that.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FurryCreatures;15096263*
> This graph in particular shows something more along the lines of what I was expecting


that graph is a load of poo, just compare the 2500k vs 2600k results with readily available benches, the difference isnt nearly as big as the graph % suggests. So since the intel numbers were pulled out of their collective arses im gonna assume so are AMD ones


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15095377*
> So, do they waste die space on a crappy CPU? Llano has a good IGP and a crappy Athlon CPU, which is *technically* Sandy Bridge's competitor. Since they're both "APU's".


Except you can't simply install another CPU in your PCI-E slot, now can you?
Not without a latency penalty.
The GPU on the other hand can easily be expanded.

I think that Llano's CPU and GPU compliment each other fairly well.
The same can't be said for Sandy Bridge.


----------



## hazarada

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15096672*
> Except you can't simply install another CPU in your PCI-E slot, now can you?
> Not without a latency penalty.


yes you can actually, the route that 2p+ server cpus take when chatting with eachother right now is longer then it would be if the cpu was sitting in a pcie slot. The only reason they dont do it is because it would be too client friendly.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;15096710*
> yes you can actually, the route that 2p+ server cpus take when chatting with eachother right now is longer then it would be if the cpu was sitting in a pcie slot. The only reason they dont do it is because it would be too client friendly.


Of course it can be done, I meant to say it isn't very ideal.


----------



## tvr

So I can crossfire my BD


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tvr;15097179*
> So I can crossfire my BD


Oh, c'mon how would you put the SA on it


----------



## tvr

Haha would be cool tho


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15096672*
> Except you can't simply install another CPU in your PCI-E slot, now can you?
> Not without a latency penalty.
> The GPU on the other hand can easily be expanded.
> 
> I think that Llano's CPU and GPU compliment each other fairly well.
> The same can't be said for Sandy Bridge.


Older generation IGPs (ie. Before Llano destroyed all) run games fairly well at smaller resolutions, hell, I even got New Vegas running at 1080p with some fast RAM and the sideport enabled at 1333Mhz on my HD3300 (overclocked to 900Mhz)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15096672*
> Except you can't simply install another CPU in your PCI-E slot, now can you?
> Not without a latency penalty.
> The GPU on the other hand can easily be expanded.
> 
> I think that Llano's CPU and GPU compliment each other fairly well.
> The same can't be said for Sandy Bridge.


A lot of people running 2600K's are not using the on die GPU, but taking advantage of the sheer performance of the CPU.

The same can't be said for those Athlon cores.

For me, I'd take a 2500K over an AMD APU any day of the week, as I can get much more out of that CPU performance.

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15099322*
> A lot of people running 2600K's are not using the on die GPU, but taking advantage of the sheer performance of the CPU.
> 
> The same can't be said for those Athlon cores.
> 
> For me, I'd take a 2500K over an AMD APU any day of the week, as I can get much more out of that CPU performance.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


The difference in gaming power for 95% of games "rough metric there" SB vrs LLANO right now is that llano is better balanced, it has the right portion of cpu/gpu power. And regardless of what people think, the llano cores are not really that down in performance to the SB core, like 12-17% on average but not in games. Now if we use cherry picked benchmarks where Intel has a distinct instruction support advantage like x87, sure the picture is far uglier, but its not like the SB CPU is like totally owning the llano in the market space, and AMD can't make enough to meet demand. I have a feeling they are ramping 32nm on other 45nm lines right now to meet the demands.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15094217*
> I can't believe how many AMD users do rendering and other multithreading workloads.
> 
> It seems everyone is interested in what the eight core cpu can do, am I the only one who only cares about the quad core?
> 
> Eight cores doesn't do jack for my workload, neither did six, so am I the odd ball out, or is everyone just wanting an x8 to have an x8?


I have a home studio, the more cores I have the more effects and tracks I can run without having to clock to the moon. Helps to have a very multithreaded DAW to and multithreaded vst/vsti's.

Its actually more power efficient and much quieter for me as well without having to overclock a 4core to the moon, I can downclock a 8 core with lower thermals and turn down the fan speeds.

As it is now you can't tell me 6 core is even on, but when I had a Intel quad, prior to sb, I had to clock it to the moon to keep from bottle necking.

I would gander I am not alone here either. There are plenty of folks who have workloads like this.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Llano can't play any of the games I play with decent settings currently except League of Legends, this isn't a mainstream forum... Generally what works for mainstream dies in a fire for many users here.

Where are you getting your numbers? Bulldozer has a ways to go, core for core SB can exceed Phemon II max air/water performance by as much as 50% or more.

You really need to get your facts in line...

Head over to bit-tech, http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/01/03/intel-sandy-bridge-review/11

An i7 at 4.85GHz is quite a bit faster than a 1100T at 4.2GHz, yet the 1090T uses about 36% more power at those clocks. We still haven't seen what kind of power draw bulldozer is going to bring, or it's relative performance to draw, both at stock and overclocked.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15099763*
> Llano can't play any of the games I play with decent settings currently except League of Legends, this isn't a mainstream forum... Generally what works for mainstream dies in a fire for many users here.
> 
> Where are you getting your numbers? Bulldozer has a ways to go, core for core SB can exceed Phemon II max air/water performance by as much as 50% or more.
> 
> You really need to get your facts in line...
> 
> Head over to bit-tech, http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/01/03/intel-sandy-bridge-review/11
> 
> An i7 at 4.85GHz is quite a bit faster than a 1100T at 4.2GHz, yet the 1090T uses about 36% more power at those clocks. We still haven't seen what kind of power draw bulldozer is going to bring, or it's relative performance to draw, both at stock and overclocked.


My facts are just fine. I also stipulated where the various advantages between the architectures where at. Much of the performance metric depends greatly on the code being run. In many instances the PhenomIIx6 edges out has paraody with the 26004c/8t cpu and in my useage case it does.

Overclocking my studio rig leads to a host of prolems as when I fire up the studio, it has to be 100% maximally stable so stock clocks are it. I can't afford glitchs or heat issues.

BTW the only thing most manufacturers care about in reality is mainstream performance, thats 90% of the market. Prebuilt and OEM. Llano is aimed squarely at that market and for the task it is given, it does very well.

I am not surprised a chip with a 4.8ghz clock is faster then a chip with a 4.2ghz clock, thats not very surprising, IPS should in theory go up with higher clock speeds.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

What?


----------



## Tweeky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What?


not what? when?


----------



## tvr

I can't comment on any of this but its great being here, I am picking so much stuff up, I have been in to computers for about 9 years now and have built my rigs for years, when BD gets here I will be building my first watercooled rig can't wait, only got my case up to now nzxt tempest evo.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Llano can't play any of the games I play with decent settings currently except League of Legends, this isn't a mainstream forum... Generally what works for mainstream dies in a fire for many users here.


I've heard that the hybrid crossfire gives some serious performance, but I have not really checked it out. Would that run your games?

If the APU's with the bulldozer core (coming q1 2012?) can do a decent hybrid crossfire it might well become a serious alternative for normal gamers.


----------



## flashtest

http://www.guru3d.com/article/sandy-...i-x79-preview/ interesting reading btw, oh wait that's the thread about the processor from the company releasing no info to it's customers.

btw wasn't Bulldozer announced 2 years prior to Sandy_E?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


http://www.guru3d.com/article/sandy-...i-x79-preview/ interesting reading btw, oh wait that's the thread about the processor from the company releasing no info to it's customers.

btw wasn't Bulldozer announced 2 years prior to Sandy_E?


Man those things are going to cost a massive amount of money. 
Performance is awesome, though.


----------



## Tweeky

How many more days?


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


How many more days?










I think most of us are guessing the 12th of october. There was some unofficial clip about mid-october, so fingers crossed!


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


.

An i7 at *4.85GHz* is quite a bit faster than a 1100T at *4.2GHz*,


 No **** Sherlock, what gave you your first clue?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

a day w/o any BD news makes me sad







Seeing as how today is Wednesday, we probably wont hear much until Monday.


----------



## jck

Aww Slappy


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


I think most of us are guessing the 12th of october. There was some unofficial clip about mid-october, so fingers crossed!


The 12th may or may not be a bogus date, but yeah mid-October comes from the horse's mouth.


----------



## Tokkan

The bench I would love to see would be the 4 Core Bulldozer versus the 4 Core i5 Sandy Bridge aka 2500k.
On overclocking and performance.

Is it possible to OC the 4 core bulldozer?
You guys think it would be a good purchase for gaming?
Hope to hear positive answers on both.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


The difference in gaming power for 95% of games "rough metric there" SB vrs LLANO right now is that llano is better balanced, it has the right portion of cpu/gpu power. And regardless of what people think, the llano cores are not really that down in performance to the SB core, like 12-17% on average but not in games. Now if we use cherry picked benchmarks where Intel has a distinct instruction support advantage like x87, sure the picture is far uglier, but its not like the SB CPU is like totally owning the llano in the market space, and AMD can't make enough to meet demand. I have a feeling they are ramping 32nm on other 45nm lines right now to meet the demands.


I knew I should've clarified my statement.

Everybody focuses on gaming, gaming, gaming. If I was building another gaming rig, Llano would not be my 1st option, and neither would SB's on die GPU. I'd go with a 2500K and a dedicated GPU.

For every day use, even encoding, etc, I'd still go with a 2500K because of Quick Sync. Remember SB's overclocking potential vs Llano's as well, there really is no comparison. Besides for "most people" the SB GPU is just fine for every day use.

Anyway, I'm not sure where you're getting your 12% - 17% stats from?
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=399

When it comes to upgrading my laptop though, it'd be Llano all the way for me, and I even told a few buddies to go that route instead of Sandy or a MacBook.

Again, different strokes for different folks.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


btw wasn't Bulldozer announced 2 years prior to Sandy_E?


Bulldozer was first announced in 2007. This is the earliest article I could find, it may have actually been announced prior to that. 
http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...or-2009-146488

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DarthElvis*


No **** Sherlock, what gave you your first clue?










Clock for Clock SB is faster, his point being that an 1100T maxes out at 4.2 on air ( Did yours max out at 3.9? ), while BD can reach 4.8 on Air.

Both are VERY close in price as well, while there's no comparison in performance.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tokkan*


The bench I would love to see would be the 4 Core Bulldozer versus the 4 Core i5 Sandy Bridge aka 2500k.
On overclocking and performance.

Is it possible to OC the 4 core bulldozer?
You guys think it would be a good purchase for gaming?
Hope to hear positive answers on both.










A Yes on the overclock (outside of turbo) would be unofficial i don't think it was mentioned in any of the videos and i don't think of the turbo as overclock in the tweak sense.

But if it acts like a X4 core (the 90% difference between it and a 'real' 4 core may be more or less in games - again let's see some benches first), it should be fine 
90+% of the current gaming PC's are running max 4 cores so i don't see how a developer will program/optimize for more than 4 cores effectively killing himself from the market. (see Sandy-E vs Sandy game benches for example)

Edit:thanks for the link 2010rig.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tokkan*


The bench I would love to see would be the 4 Core Bulldozer versus the 4 Core i5 Sandy Bridge aka 2500k.
On overclocking and performance.


Better bench would be the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count.


----------



## FurryCreatures

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tokkan*


The bench I would love to see would be the 4 Core Bulldozer versus the 4 Core i5 Sandy Bridge aka 2500k.
On overclocking and performance.

Is it possible to OC the 4 core bulldozer?
You guys think it would be a good purchase for gaming?
Hope to hear positive answers on both.










I have no idea on the benchmarks or how *good* it will be for gaming/overclocking. Although all of the FX chips are unlocked so you will be able to overclock it.

In terms of i5-2500k vs FX4xxx, AMD is pricing the FX-8120 around i5-2500k, ($221 vs $219 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4767/p...dozer-fx-chips, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115072).

so I doubt it's little brother, the FX-4100 would be quite as competitive, especially in multimedia programs and benchmarks. Although, with a decently high core clock as well as the ability to overclock it if you wish, I imagine it would do well in games. I'm definitely looking forward to it beating down the i3 in terms of gaming power/price.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


Aww Slappy










Thank you







I feel better now


----------



## a pet rock

I hate to bring this up from a couple pages back, but I feel I should. The 90% number is specifically for adding extra cores to the first core. It means 90% more performance for each core added to the first. The reason you won't get exactly double the performance is because there's overlap between the two cores. Sometimes the load isn't split perfectly between the cores and they do a little bit of the same work or have to wait for the other core to catch up (same problem that causes CF/SLI stuttering).

The reason JF-AMD brought that number is specifically to compare it to hyper-threading because it adds at best 35% more performance. The reason is people were comparing 4-core/8-thread i7s to 8-core/8-thread BD. So you get 135%+135%+135%+135% compared to 180%+180%+180%+180% (per module).

Please, don't take things out of context.


----------



## a pet rock

EDIT: Double post. Delete pl0x.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *a pet rock*


I hate to bring this up from a couple pages back, but I feel I should. The 90% number is specifically for adding extra cores to the first core. It means 90% more performance for each core added to the first. The reason you won't get exactly double the performance is because there's overlap between the two cores. Sometimes the load isn't split perfectly between the cores and they do a little bit of the same work or have to wait for the other core to catch up (same problem that causes CF/SLI stuttering).

The reason JF-AMD brought that number is specifically to compare it to hyper-threading because it adds at best 35% more performance. The reason is people were comparing 4-core/8-thread i7s to 8-core/8-thread BD. So you get 135%+135%+135%+135% compared to 180%+180%+180%+180% (per module).

Please, don't take things out of context.


This architecture kind of confuses me, and I know I'll sound like a ******, but is a module going to be like one super-core that can do 2 threads?


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I have a home studio, the more cores I have the more effects and tracks I can run without having to clock to the moon. Helps to have a very multithreaded DAW to and multithreaded vst/vsti's.

Its actually more power efficient and much quieter for me as well without having to overclock a 4core to the moon, I can downclock a 8 core with lower thermals and turn down the fan speeds.

As it is now you can't tell me 6 core is even on, but when I had a Intel quad, prior to sb, I had to clock it to the moon to keep from bottle necking.

I would gander I am not alone here either. There are plenty of folks who have workloads like this.


Freeze your tracks man! Especially those vsti's like Superior Drummer.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shahzad7*


one super-core that can do 2 threads?


This sounds like the best description to it - but for marketing reasons 2 cores are better so the 1 supercore became 'module'.

Else you end up explaining end customers how the supercore is actually 2 cores and if they are slower than sandy that it's not exactly 2 cores and about threads and at this moment customer is not listening anymore.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shahzad7*


This architecture kind of confuses me, and I know I'll sound like a ******, but is a module going to be like one super-core that can do 2 threads?


Nope. As far as the end user/client is concerned, it is a straight real whateveryouwannacall it 8 cores. The module is only a term used to designate it from the hardware designer/engineer side for how they managed to do it. Basically, by organizing two cores into a single module sharing an FPU (and some other stuff?) they managed to reduce the amount of space each core takes up allowing for more units per wafer for cost efficiency. Maybe also stuff like TDP and energy usage, but that's speculation on my part. Maybe someone like JF-AMD or Duckie could explain better and/or confirm that.

And you don't sound that stupid, a lot of people are getting that confused. It's a completely new way of doing things, so not everyone is 100% sure about how they set it up. Maybe one day people will be talking about modules like we talk about cores now.


----------



## Canis-X

Another day down.....just wish we knew the day to expect them out....come on BD!!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl;15103772*
> Freeze your tracks man! Especially those vsti's like Superior Drummer.


I don't have to with my current system build.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15104002*
> Nope. As far as the end user/client is concerned, it is a straight real whateveryouwannacall it 8 cores. The module is only a term used to designate it from the hardware designer/engineer side for how they managed to do it. Basically, by organizing two cores into a single module sharing an FPU (and some other stuff?) they managed to reduce the amount of space each core takes up allowing for more units per wafer for cost efficiency. Maybe also stuff like TDP and energy usage, but that's speculation on my part. Maybe someone like JF-AMD or Duckie could explain better and/or confirm that.
> 
> And you don't sound that stupid, a lot of people are getting that confused. It's a completely new way of doing things, so not everyone is 100% sure about how they set it up. Maybe one day people will be talking about modules like we talk about cores now.


Your leaving out the part where sharing some components that saves die space, allow for slightly large but more powerful components that are being shared and in the not shared space.By saving dies space by combing some parts, you can make other parts much bigger and mor epowerful.

Good plan !


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15102811*
> Clock for Clock SB is faster, his point being that an 1100T maxes out at 4.2 on air ( Did yours max out at 3.9? ), while BD can reach 4.8 on Air.
> 
> Both are VERY close in price as well, while there's no comparison in performance.


4.2GHz is getting into water territory for 24/7 usage, but that wasn't really where I was going... Another thing I was attempting to convey was that performance per watt of SB is quite a bit higher...

But I think it would be best to consider the users post count/rep level before diving too far into that subject matter.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15103107*
> Better bench would be the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count.


Bing bing bing. We have a winner.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15104002*
> Nope. As far as the end user/client is concerned, it is a straight real whateveryouwannacall it 8 cores. The module is only a term used to designate it from the hardware designer/engineer side for how they managed to do it. Basically, by organizing two cores into a single module sharing an FPU (and some other stuff?) they managed to reduce the amount of space each core takes up allowing for more units per wafer for cost efficiency. Maybe also stuff like TDP and energy usage, but that's speculation on my part. Maybe someone like JF-AMD or Duckie could explain better and/or confirm that.
> 
> And you don't sound that stupid, a lot of people are getting that confused. It's a completely new way of doing things, so not everyone is 100% sure about how they set it up. Maybe one day people will be talking about modules like we talk about cores now.


You got it just about right.

Imagine inside your quad core processor today you have a whole lot of silicon doing nothing. Except eating power. And costing money.

In our house we have a living room and a guest bedroom that we never use. We cool it in the summer. We heat it in the winter. We clean it. But we never use it. And that square footage hits our taxes.

Inside of each core, you have a front end (fetch and decode) that are probably rarely over 20% utilized. You also have a huge FPU that for client workloads, sits idle most of the time. But you also have integer pipelines. Those are always full, those are always working. What if we could take away some of the things that are over provisioned and rarely used and replace them with things that are used constantly?

So instead of 6 integer cores, you get 8. In a smaller die. That uses less power.

It's a win-win. I laugh when the famboys throw up the "shared FPU means it isn't a real core" argument. Apparently they don't realize how many cycles the FPU sits idle, or lightly used, in most client applications. It's like putting a trailer on your car so you always have the cargo space "just in case", and then wonder why your gas mileage sucks.

Bulldozer - more of what you need, less of what you don't.


----------



## Kazumi

So I've read a few places that BD's native memory will be 1866. Has their been any "official" update saying this is true? I'm ordering parts over the next couple weeks, and I'd rather order what will be needed.

I got some G-Skill gaming 12Gb 1866 in my cart. But I don't feel like ordering it if it's not the native support. But I'll most likely order anyways..lol


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi;15105796*
> So I've read a few places that BD's native memory will be 1866. Has their been any "official" update saying this is true? I'm ordering parts over the next couple weeks, and I'd rather order what will be needed.
> 
> I got some G-Skill gaming 12Gb 1866 in my cart. But I don't feel like ordering it if it's not the native support. But I'll most likely order anyways..lol


if a thuban can handle 2000mhz then bulldozer can handle 1866mhz.
use you head man. just get as low latency as possible...


----------



## Kazumi

Awesome, Just wanted to make sure.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15105781*
> It's a win-win. I laugh when the famboys throw up the "shared FPU means it isn't a real core" argument. Apparently they don't realize how many cycles the FPU sits idle, or lightly used, in most client applications. It's like putting a trailer on your car so you always have the cargo space "just in case", and then wonder why your gas mileage sucks.
> 
> Bulldozer - more of what you need, less of what you don't.


Are you saying that Chew* is a fanboy? I do recall him contributing to the World Record run.
Quote:


> Actually it's not. For whatever reason AMD chose to market it as cores.
> 
> In reality however BD is more akin to 4 cores / 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> I have said this since the beginning.
> 
> There are however other reasons for calling them cores.
> 
> Example you can disable HT with intel.
> 
> AMD's design to my knowledge however does not allow for disabling a core in a module, I could be wrong however.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!&p=4936596&viewfull=1#post4936596


----------



## Rebelord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15105781*
> Bulldozer - more of what you need, less of what you don't.


Boom! Goes the Dynamite!

'nuff said JF.


----------



## Iceman23

More of what you need? The average home PC user will NEVER fully utilize 8 cores, much less 4. We need a revolution is software development, not CPUs. If (any) home apps were capable of utilizing 8 cores, BD probably would be a beast - but as it stands, this isn't the case. Here's hoping this does actually help to push development of highly multi-threaded apps for the home user.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15106952*
> More of what you need? The average home PC user will NEVER fully utilize 8 cores, much less 4. We need a revolution is software development, not CPUs. If (any) home apps were capable of utilizing 8 cores, BD probably would be a beast - but as it stands, this isn't the case. Here's hoping this does actually help to push development of highly multi-threaded apps for the home user.


You gotta admire the marketing talk though.


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15104040*
> Another day down.....just wish we knew the day to expect them out....come on BD!!


ah well..i told myself that if it didn't come out on the 26th i was gonna put the sandy bridge back together..but...it's now the 28th..and you know what? i haven't had any random freezes/crazy reboot issues..i may just sell the sandy bridge..the old 965 plugs away still..gettin' er done


----------



## rubicsphere

Bulldozer! Come out already! This dual core is killing me!


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15106952*
> More of what you need? The average home PC user will NEVER fully utilize 8 cores, much less 4. We need a revolution is software development, not CPUs. If (any) home apps were capable of utilizing 8 cores, BD probably would be a beast - but as it stands, this isn't the case. Here's hoping this does actually help to push development of highly multi-threaded apps for the home user.


The point he was making is that at least cores get used in client applications, while FPU and fetch and decode sit mostly idle. You don't use the FPU or the fetch and decode much as it is, so why have more of them?


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15103107*
> Better bench would be the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count.


except for gamers


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15105739*
> 4.2GHz is getting into water territory for 24/7 usage, but that wasn't really where I was going... Another thing I was attempting to convey was that performance per watt of SB is quite a bit higher...
> 
> But I think it would be best to consider the users post count/rep level before diving too far into that subject matter.


then current PhenomII cpu's, yeah the SB has a small wattage advantage at higher clocks.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15107149*
> The point he was making is that at least cores get used in client applications, while FPU and fetch and decode sit mostly idle. You don't use the FPU or the fetch and decode much as it is, so why have more of them?


Nope, usually only 1 or 2 cores are fully utilized in nearly all "home user" applications. "Modules" are a good idea in theory but far ahead of software development. I understand the point he's making but it's largely irrelevant.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15107302*
> Nope, usually only 1 or 2 cores are fully utilized in nearly all "home user" applications. "Modules" are a good idea in theory but far ahead of software development. I understand the point he's making but it's largely irrelevant.


Wait. What part is the "nope" referring to? Are you just saying it to be argumentative? Super cereal, which do you think you use more a core or the FPU or fetch and decode? Cores. They'd rather use die space on cores instead of front ends. Yes, I know that most current home apps are two threads tops, you'd have to be stupid to argue otherwise, but you can't deny the fact that the core is the main workhorse of your CPU especially compared to the front end.


----------



## soth7676

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15107302*
> Nope, usually only 1 or 2 cores are fully utilized in nearly all "home user" applications. "Modules" are a good idea in theory but far ahead of software development. I understand the point he's making but it's largely irrelevant.


So what you are saying is everyone should go back to dual core processors then, or is it AMD and intel are making quad cores instead of dual cores, so we feel like we are getting a "two for the price of one" deal out of their processors???

So if we just stay at the dual core level the software developers won't have to worry about all that quad, hecto, and octo processor thing, I mean after all they seem to be developing games for consoles and THEN porting them over to the pc. Heck why even bother innovating software or hardware wise for that matter then!!

I still think I have my single core athlon +3200 down in the basement. I don't need this quad processor anyway.

Now that you get my point here... SOMETHING needs to push the software devs in to utilize the hardware that is presented, with your mindset we would have never left the 32 bit processor stage, cause the software at the time couldn't utilize 64 bit processing. So why not ultilize the approach amd is working on??? Worse that can happen is you buy the quad core version since it will ultilize one or two modules anyway??

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15106952*
> More of what you need? The average home PC user will NEVER fully utilize 8 cores, much less 4.


And they once said nobody will ever need more than 640K of memory.

Progress moves on.

The fact that you are saying nobody needs more than 4 cores, only a few years after single cores were all the rage should be an indication that short sighted predictions are just that.


----------



## Canis-X

Hey JF.......Are we there yet?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15107782*
> And they once said nobody will ever need more than 640K of memory.
> 
> Progress moves on.
> 
> The fact that you are saying nobody needs more than 4 cores, only a few years after single cores were all the rage should be an indication that short sighted predictions are just that.


Since you're a server guy, and have admitted that you're into *underclocking* and gaming on a Wii, it's hard for you to understand what OCN'ers are all about.

90% of rigs that are built here are gaming oriented.

Do you know how many games utilize 2-4 cores?

And how many games utilize more than 4 cores?

Please break down the percentages for me.

Yes, some day in the not too distant future, more games will utilize more than 4 cores, but today that is not the case.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Fact is for many of the games on the market you only need a dual core.

It's been years since quads came out, and most games don't use quad cores.

I only got a quad core because I play a few games that use four cores, like BFBC2.

My biggest concern with bulldozer is how good the cores are, you are offering more than one model, an x6 and an x4 are in the lineup... Why is the x8 the only one being discussed? I thought they were all FX processors...

If I needed more cores I would have gone the server route, because it would have made more sense and I could do 2p-4p setups which would dwarf the fastest desktop setup from either company in tasks that would actually warrant a greater core count. But again, that's just me. Seems to me modern desktop lineup's are more akin to a server design ported to desktops. Not saying Intel isn't the same way, just a bit different focus, per core, vs more core.

The worry for me is per core matters to me, because I play dual core games that are cpu intensive. So the biggest question in my mind for bulldozer is how much per core was scarified for more cores. I'm not speaking on the performance loss of the module design, I'm looking more at the early design development and the direction they started on in.


----------



## Kazumi

I use all 4 cores for gaming..Haha! I run 6 Eve-online accounts on med/high. I enjoy being able to have multi accounts open and enough cores to handle the load. I'm excited for 8 core's. I betcha I'll be using em.

I play BFBC2 as well, good point they use the cores as well..haha BF3 will also.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soth7676;15107525*
> So what you are saying is everyone should go back to dual core processors then, or is it AMD and intel are making quad cores instead of dual cores, so we feel like we are getting a "two for the price of one" deal out of their processors???
> 
> So if we just stay at the dual core level the software developers won't have to worry about all that quad, hecto, and octo processor thing, I mean after all they seem to be developing games for consoles and THEN porting them over to the pc. Heck why even bother innovating software or hardware wise for that matter then!!
> 
> I still think I have my single core athlon +3200 down in the basement. I don't need this quad processor anyway.
> 
> Now that you get my point here... SOMETHING needs to push the software devs in to utilize the hardware that is presented, with your mindset we would have never left the 32 bit processor stage, cause the software at the time couldn't utilize 64 bit processing. So why not ultilize the approach amd is working on??? Worse that can happen is you buy the quad core version since it will ultilize one or two modules anyway??
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


I think the point he's trying to make is, high end technology is not designed with the mainstream user in mind......usually. The enthusiast crowd is really what drives innovation. The majority just want their computer to "work fast" without problems, they really don't care (or know about) the hardware inside. That's why laptops come in different colors. Enthusiasts are people who use their PC's for more than Word, Internet, and home media.

While video coders, for example, are always going to want more cores and more memory, and gamers are always going to want faster GPUs, they make up a relatively small part of the market. It's that small percentage, however, that drives companies to create new technology.

The geeks shall inherit the earth.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi;15108052*
> I use all 4 cores for gaming..Haha! I run 6 Eve-online accounts on med/high. I enjoy being able to have multi accounts open and enough cores to handle the load. I'm excited for 8 core's. I betcha I'll be using em.
> 
> I play BFBC2 as well, good point they use the cores as well..haha BF3 will also.


Dude you could lease a car with all the $$ you're putting into EVE







lol...addicting game tho.


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT;15108223*
> Dude you could lease a car with all the $$ you're putting into EVE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...addicting game tho.


They are all self paid accounts..haha They all can top tier mine, I have Fraighters, orca, rorq, and can fly T2 combat ships. I normally have 3-5 mining, and use the last to do hauling contracts. Around 750 million income per day haha.

That's that's terribly off topic I'm sorry. But this shows that gamers DO use more then 2 cores. I'm gonna like to see someone max out BF3 with a Duel and see how the CPU enjoys half the world falling apart at the litteral seem..haha


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15105781*
> Bulldozer - more of what you need, less of what you don't.


Then when you don't have it,you wish you did.


----------



## JCPUser

Why does the "8 cores are unnecessary argument" keep popping up?

AMD's BD module is an innovative design that cuts away the mostly unused silicon and tries to use the space to reduce any bottlenecks (ex. adding more integer pipelines). They then decided to put 4 of these modules on a die to make an affordable 8 core chip. Maybe today those 8 cores will be underutilized in popular activities like gaming, _BUT if nobody starts making cheap CPUs with 8, 10, 12, etc... cores then software will never by optimized to take advantage of that level of parallelization._ There is nothing wrong with AMD's strategy.

Now, as a customer you must decide what you need for your typical workloads. People like me, who mostly game, really have no need for 8 cores and _may_ be better of going Intel (this would be one reason why I just switched). However, just because I won't use all the cores doesn't mean somebody else won't want 8 cores for folding or encoding or whatever....

Furthermore, as 8 core processors are adopted by those who need it, they will become slowly even cheaper, more mainstream -- and then in 4 years AMD will have a 16 core processor and every know-it-all will retort "What's the point? You only need 8 cores for gaming"

*tl;dr:* Just buy what you need for your workload. Many people DO have use for more cores. Just because YOU personally don't need 8 cores doesn't mean the processor is pointless or that AMD is doing it wrong.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15108017*
> Fact is for many of the games on the market you only need a dual core.


That's not fact. A PII X4 walks over my rig in BC2.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;15108678*
> That's not fact. A PII X4 walks over my rig in BC2.


*"For many of the games"* is the factual part.









BC2 happens to be *one* of those games that utilizes more cores.

I wonder if there's data out there that shows how many games available today use 2 cores, how many use 2-4 cores, and how many use more than 4 cores.

That would be an interesting pie chart to see.

I'd like *RECENT* stats though.
Quote:


> The problem to date however is simple .. right down to the source all software was never developed with multiple processor cores in mind, and though we see some applications being supported better, the one type of application you guys like the most, games, are very much hindered by this fact. *80% of the games currently available will only use one logical CPU core at best, perhaps add another 18% that finally does support two cores, and the remaining 2% uses multiple cores, ideally.* These numbers do change when you look at the games released over the past 12 months though.


http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/

This article is a bit more recent.
Quote:


> *Conclusion*
> For those of you with a dual-core CPU, in most games it offers "enough" performance (at least in terms of core count), although it's clear that won't last much longer. While some developers are sticking with engines that aren't multi-threaded, if there's one thing clear from our testing it is that games are starting to make better use of more cores. At the moment, three cores appears to be what games are happiest using (aside from Dirt 2).
> 
> That's not to say that everyone should go out and buy an AMD triple-core though - obviously clock speed and instructions per clock are important, and as we've said often enough in our buyer's guides, in terms of performance, Intel's CPUs dominate.
> 
> *Four CPU cores appears to be plenty*, and it's upgrade and multi-task proof. If you do leave your torrent client MSN on or music playing in the background, for example, then the game will still have enough spare resources not to chug.
> 
> *One important conclusion to take away though is that you don't need a 6-core CPU. They do nothing for your games*, so unless you already find a quad-core slow in other applications or your day-to-day PC use, don't upgrade for this reason.


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/9


----------



## catharsis

Who cares honestly? If BD performs equal to a competing 4core with 8cores IN games. Do you honestly care if all 8 cores are being used? I mean really this argument is silly. It's not about the cores, or the modules or any of that. It's about the performance. Right now we have no idea how bulldozer will stack up. But if it takes an 8 core amd to match a 4 core intel even in games. I could care less. I understand not all games use 8 cores, but that doesn't mean bulldozer can't be competitive. Also look towards the future. If I buy a processor, chances are I'm gonna sit on it for atleast 2 years. Every day new games are coming out, and future games with support up to 8 core processors. It'll happen, and being future proof is important.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15106952*
> More of what you need? The average home PC user will NEVER fully utilize 8 cores, much less 4. We need a revolution is software development, not CPUs. If (any) home apps were capable of utilizing 8 cores, BD probably would be a beast - but as it stands, this isn't the case. Here's hoping this does actually help to push development of highly multi-threaded apps for the home user.


Games will surely use it. New consoles are coming out next year.

Think about this, remember all those PC games that ran like crap on people's dual cores when they started porting them from 360 & PS3?

360 has 6 cores, PS3 has 8. They were written to to take advantage of those cores in parallel.

You can expect the consoles coming out next year to have at least double that. Which means even more parallel processing being done.

Now when those ports start hitting PC, people with quad cores are going to be running into the same problem people with dual cores were running into after 360 & PS3 starting getting all the attention of developers.

That's how i see it anyway.


----------



## Asustweaker

I'm personally interested in seeing what kind of folding output these 8 core BD chips would produce. obviously They would be able to run -bigadv, hopefully rival that of the I7 980x.


----------



## blabla125

hey guys i am going to be ordering parts very soon since bd is a apu,will the crosshair v formula have dvi ports etc?and since the native ram support is 1866 does that mean it wont support 1600MHz ?what is suggested that i go with 1600 or 1866,when i overclock i will only use multiplier.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blabla125;15109083*
> hey guys i am going to be ordering parts very soon since bd is a apu,will the crosshair v formula have dvi ports etc?and since the native ram support is 1866 does that mean it wont support 1600MHz ?what is suggested that i go with 1600 or 1866,when i overclock i will only use multiplier.


BD is not an APU, the APU version of BD won't be available until Piledriver next year.


----------



## krabs

^ BD is not APU


----------



## blabla125

^^oops i am mistaken then sorry^^


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15107945*
> Since you're a server guy, and have admitted that you're into *underclocking* and gaming on a Wii, it's hard for you to understand what OCN'ers are all about.
> 
> 90% of rigs that are built here are gaming oriented.
> 
> Do you know how many games utilize 2-4 cores?
> 
> And how many games utilize more than 4 cores?
> 
> Please break down the percentages for me.
> 
> Yes, some day in the not too distant future, more games will utilize more than 4 cores, but today that is not the case.


All this makes me wonder why you're in the bulldozer thread rumbling about fewer cores? I mean most here is excited about the 8 core, and it will be beat the Phenom II (and hopefully reach performance somewhere near i7-2600K) and it is a step forward. I think that it will be a good gaming processor - perhaps not the best of the best - but it will run all the games there are, I believe.

You said it yourself :"Yes, some day in the not too distant future, more games will utilize more than 4 cores". Why should AMD wait until that is a reality instead of thinking ahead? Even my wife could benefit from more cores, since she listens to spotify, downloads, chat, play games at the same time.

I hope that AMD is on the right track with the new design and will improve with shrinking and evolution. But time will tell.


----------



## oicw

Thinking ahead is one thing, but having an idea, or ideal, so far ahead of reality that it becomes outdated by the time it's finally implemented, is another thing.

An example may be Phenom I vs Conroe. We can probably agree a Phenom 9950 overclocked to 3.4Ghz can outperform say, an E6600 Conroe at the same speed, multi-threaded. On the other hand, The E6600 spanked 9950 in almost every game back in 2007, because very few supported quad core.

On a modern 4-threaded game, the 9950 would be faster. But did most PhenomIs on the planet ever live that long in a gaming system? No, these days we have quad cores that'll spank it.

Same may apply to BD. Sure, it'll beat a 2500K in very few 8 threaded games. But by the time 8 and 16 thread games become mainstream, both BD and 2500K would be long out of date. And the future 8-16 core Intel/AMD CPUs would be so much faster that no one in their right mind would keep a FX-8150 circa 2011 Q4.


----------



## tvr

So when I get my BD with 8 cores the longer I have it the faster it will get? Lol with more software/games using more cores love it Haha


----------



## Chuckclc

Hey, a Phenom X3 8650 at 2.3Ghz with a 8800 GTS 512 ran GTAIV with no problems, on medium settings. Surprised the heck out of me.


----------



## StarDestroyer

I see you're all still waiting for BD, it should be out before 2012


----------



## blabla125

can any 1 answer my question about the ram?


----------



## tvr

No its 1Q 2012


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


hey guys i am going to be ordering parts very soon since bd is a apu,will the crosshair v formula have dvi ports etc?and since the native ram support is 1866 does that mean it wont support 1600MHz ?what is suggested that i go with 1600 or 1866,when i overclock i will only use multiplier.


It will support 1600mhz RAM, the CHV does not have native video, you will need a discrete video card, when you over clock you can use Multiplier or FSb or a combination of both. Whatever works best for you.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Bulldozer FX processors come in x4, x6, and x8 variations, the total lack of talk about the latter two is what dumbfounds me.

Which is why I asked if everyone using an AMD chip did nothing but multithreaded workloads.


----------



## JF-AMD

You are totally correct. There will be 4 core variants for those that think 4 cores is enough.

Why is everyone so hell-bent on convincing people that the thing they need is the thing everyone else needs? Why not just say buy what you want and be done with it? I think the corvette is not the right car for me. But I don't tell corvette owners that they are idiots or that they bought the wrong car.


----------



## liberato87

@ JF-AMD
what about the slides marked amd appeared on donanimhaber.com few days ago?
I didnt red an official deny on this and many sites are talking about "official benchmarks".

Are these slides coming from amd or not?

I know that "benchmark at launch" but these slides seems to come from amd.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15110733*
> You are totally correct. There will be 4 core variants for those that think 4 cores is enough.
> 
> Why is everyone so hell-bent on convincing people that the thing they need is the thing everyone else needs? *Why not just say buy what you want and be done with it?* I think the corvette is not the right car for me. But I don't tell corvette owners that they are idiots or that they bought the wrong car.


So this.

If you need 8 cores then buy the 8150. If you only need 4 cores then buy any 4 core CPU. If you need 4 cores and FX turns out to be too slow per core then buy Intel's 2500K. If you want Intel's 4 fast cores, but only have $140 (my guess at the 4 core FX price) then buy the FX 4 core. I could go on and on.....

@Balla
They are talking about the 8 core primarily because that is the native die. Based on AMD's history both the 4 and 6 cores are just 8 core CPUs with 2/4 cores disabled (obviously this is not confirmed). They aren't going to focus on what basically amounts to partially defunct cpu.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15110733*
> You are totally correct. There will be 4 core variants for those that think 4 cores is enough.
> 
> Why is everyone so hell-bent on convincing people that the thing they need is the thing everyone else needs? Why not just say buy what you want and be done with it? I think the corvette is not the right car for me. But I don't tell corvette owners that they are idiots or that they bought the wrong car.


That analogy would make more sense if this was a car forum with various different users from daily commuters to race car drivers, and the corvette came with three different engines, v4, v6, and v8.

Of course Chevy being in AMD's position would want to sell more v8's than anything else. Since the majority of their consumers are ignorant of the actual performance of each engine what they'd do would be to promote the v8 as the fastest engine with the hope of selling it to the people who really only needed a v4 in the first place.

Slapping more cores and more MHz on a product means more sales to the ignorant, right? Isn't that AMD's market strategy, since the market they're trying to breach currently purchases without actual knowledge of what they're buying? Since the ignorant buyers represent the largest market share, and the largest paycheck, it would make sense to go after that segment correct?


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


That analogy would make more sense if this was a car forum with various different users from daily commuters to race car drivers, and the corvette came with three different engines, v4, v6, and v8.

Of course Chevy being in AMD's position would want to sell more v8's than anything else. Since the majority of their consumers are ignorant of the actual performance of each engine what they'd do would be to promote the v8 as the fastest engine with the hope of selling it to the people who really only needed a v4 in the first place.

Slapping more cores and more MHz on a product means more sales to the ignorant, right? Isn't that AMD's market strategy, since the market they're trying to breach currently purchases without actual knowledge of what they're buying? Since the ignorant buyers represent the largest market share, and the largest paycheck, it would make sense to go after that segment correct?


If AMD was trying to push a 8 core llano for general use your point would be valid, but they aren't....

99% of the processor unware will be buying OEM boxes in the $500-$700 range as well as laptops. The only OEM boxes that will feature FX will be "gaming rigs" that go for $1000 plus. That is a very small market.

Of course, you can buy the FX PIB and build a better gaming rig cheaper than said OEM box, but then you wouldn't be an "ignorant buyer" and would understand how to purchase a CPU based on your day to day workload.

Really not sure why you have a problem with people need 8 cores and will buy FX...


----------



## proximo

This is really stupid. AMD sells most of their CPUs to OEMs who know *exactly* what they are getting.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Slapping more cores and more MHz on a product means more sales to the ignorant, right? Isn't that AMD's market strategy, since the market they're trying to breach currently purchases without actual knowledge of what they're buying? Since the ignorant buyers represent the largest market share, and the largest paycheck, it would make sense to go after that segment correct?


----------



## tvr

corvette owners I will crush you with my BULLDOZER

Edit
Oh wait I haven't got one YET


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser;15110873*
> If AMD was trying to push a 8 core llano for general use your point would be valid, but they aren't....
> 
> 99% of the processor unware will be buying OEM boxes in the $500-$700 range as well as laptops. The only OEM boxes that will feature FX will be "gaming rigs" that go for $1000 plus. That is a very small market.
> 
> Of course, you can buy the FX PIB and build a better gaming rig cheaper than said OEM box, but then you wouldn't be an "ignorant buyer" and would understand how to purchase a CPU based on your day to day workload.
> 
> Really not sure why you have a problem with people need 8 cores and will buy FX...


I'll retract it, the context I meant it in won't be viewed the way I meant it by the masses


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


@ JF-AMD
what about the slides marked amd appeared on donanimhaber.com few days ago?
I didnt red an official deny on this and many sites are talking about "official benchmarks".

Are these slides coming from amd or not?

I know that "benchmark at launch" but these slides seems to come from amd.


I don't comment on that. I know they are not my slides but I can't say if a.) they are from AMD or b.) if they were fabricated somewhere else or c.) if they were AMD slides that someone altered.

I can only speak to the slides I make.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I don't comment on that. I know they are not my slides but I can't say if a.) they are from AMD or b.) if they were fabricated somewhere else or c.) if they were AMD slides that someone altered.

I can only speak to the slides I make.


thank you anyway for the reply.


----------



## Bit_reaper

I don't get the people accusing AMD of trying to fool the ignorant with high core/MHz numbers. Marketing is marketing and engineering is engineering. Amd's development team simply try to make the best possible processor within the price limit. Or do you really think that the marketing people got to the engineers and and say more cores plz we can sell that ****.


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Do you think that there will be unlockable cores or should I say modules like the last time?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeBeTrollin'*


Do you think that there will be unlockable cores or should I say modules like the last time?


i think that with the already(rumored) low price of the FX8150/FX8120 that it would really hurt AMD's profits this time if they allow unlocking of the lower end FX4100/FX6100 chips,but who knows maybe AMD cant stop it,maybe it will be in the hands of the MB makers?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


Better bench would be the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


except for gamers


I still don't follow this logic... Regardless of the type of workload, if you had a max budget of $220 (2500k and supposedly one of the FX 8 cores) wouldn't you buy the one that gave you the best performance for your $220? You're a gamer, say you get 50 fps with one and 60 fps with the other. Wouldn't you go for the 60 whether it's 4 cores or 8 cores?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper*


I don't get the people accusing AMD of trying to fool the ignorant with high core/MHz numbers. Marketing is marketing and engineering is engineering. Amd's development team simply try to make the best possible processor within the price limit. Or do you really think that the marketing people got to the engineers and and say more cores plz we can sell that ****.


Well perfect example - Engineer comes up with something cool - that is able to do 2 threats at the cost of 1.20 the die size than before. 
Guess who decides how to name it - Marketing - so they call it a 2 Core 1 Module and not 1 supercore (in fact Super is 'out' since the nintendo era as a naming tittle).

And yes the car/apartment analogy - it's all nice and dandy till you get visitors/have to transport your stuff- then you could bring them to a Hotel/Rent a truck - but you can't do that with a CPU.

I really hope it's kicking ass - 
but having FPU in mind i remind myself of the NVIDIA/ATI battle with PhysX in Batman (where an part of the game was only visible to Nvidia users due to PhysX) - Now thinking how powerful intel is with developers - i don't want to see how they optimize the next generation software for FPU instructions









For Example your server's DB - next update makes it use 256b FPU instructions just for the kick of it - now The 12 core Interlagos suddenly behaves like a 6 core.

Well i hope users of "12 cores" don't end up praying they don't need the additional trunk space/apartment rooms soon.

Somehow reminds me of the first Celerons/Durons - "L2 is not critically needed for 90% of the software - let's remove it to save cost " - well are there any processors without L2 those days ?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Well perfect example - Engineer comes up with something cool - that is able to do 2 threats at the cost of 1.20 the die size than before. 
Guess who decides how to name it - Marketing - so they call it a 2 Core 1 Module and not 1 supercore (in fact Super is 'out' since the nintendo era as a naming tittle).


Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.

If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?

Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is one core other than "well,_ I_ think it is...."


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Someone on the internet says it is one core.


lol, well played.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


*"For many of the games"* is the factual part.









BC2 happens to be *one* of those games that utilizes more cores.

I wonder if there's data out there that shows how many games available today use 2 cores, how many use 2-4 cores, and how many use more than 4 cores.

That would be an interesting pie chart to see.

I'd like *RECENT *stats though.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-sc...re-processors/

This article is a bit more recent.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...o-games-need/9


Doesn't change the *FACT *that there are many games that are utilizing more then 2 cores. These games happen to be DX11 titles. DX11 is a new API that has support for native multi-threaded code, if you haven't heard of it.

If you want to argue stats, you want to argue modern games. Don't consider games from 2005-2008 or games built on such code to be valid to your statistics. Don't cherry pick results and act like they are valid.

If, by simple logic, you use 4 or even 2 cores to run a said application, and you start loading down your rig with music, skype, teamspeak, and other background applications, etc., you are now requiring extra computation power that will benefit from the added cores.

Btw, Windows recogonizes all and uses all individual cores. If you watch Windows' task manager, even games rated for 2 cores will have windows cycle between 2 avaliable cores. If you check your task manager, how many threads and processes are running at one time? 2? No, didn't think so.

You will see benefits from 6 cores in gaming. You'll see 8 cores benefit in the future and or other applications. If you have no use for the 8 cores, which, it is fact that there is use for it, don't buy it. Spend less and get a processor that matches the 980X for less then 200 dollars in gaming performance.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.

If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?


So if fx 8xxx is 8 "real" cores, the 8 core fx (8c/8t) must be > 2600k (4c/8t) in MT, dont? 
so why in one post you said we should compare "the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count"?

http://www.overclock.net/15105781-post6531.html

2500k is 4c/4th so it should be compared to the fx 4100, dont?

If amd says the fx 8core is 8 core/8 threads we expect that it must be better than a 4core/8threads cpu.

If IPC increases, frequency increaseas, instructions increases, 32nm vs 45nm etc.. 
we must have that bulldozer is better than k10 core to core at same frequency, dont?

So the fx 6xxx must be better than thuban, dont??
And the fx 4xxx must be better than deneb, dont??

I see everybody talking only about the fx 8xxx.. so I can't understand what is the "placement" of the fx 4xxx and the fx 6xxx, because the prices tells a different part of the story...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


That analogy would make more sense if this was a car forum with various different users from daily commuters to race car drivers, and the corvette came with three different engines, v4, v6, and v8.

Of course Chevy being in AMD's position would want to sell more v8's than anything else. Since the majority of their consumers are ignorant of the actual performance of each engine what they'd do would be to promote the v8 as the fastest engine with the hope of selling it to the people who really only needed a v4 in the first place.

Slapping more cores and more MHz on a product means more sales to the ignorant, right? Isn't that AMD's market strategy, since the market they're trying to breach currently purchases without actual knowledge of what they're buying? Since the ignorant buyers represent the largest market share, and the largest paycheck, it would make sense to go after that segment correct?


Seriously, how much does Intel marketing pay you ?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


I still don't follow this logic... Regardless of the type of workload, if you had a max budget of $220 (2500k and supposedly one of the FX 8 cores) wouldn't you buy the one that gave you the best performance for your $220? You're a gamer, say you get 50 fps with one and 60 fps with the other. Wouldn't you go for the 60 whether it's 4 cores or 8 cores?


Yep.

If that happens Bulldozer will out perform the i5-2500k by about 80% and the i7-2600k by about 65% in multithreading or more.

I hope it happens, but I'm not holding my breathe either.

For those of you wondering about BF3, you won't need more than a fast quad if open beta is any indication.

@SC, a lot. Given how many former AMD buddies I brought over, rightly so.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


2500k is 4c/4th so it should be compared to the fx 4100, dont?










The 2600K only has 4 logical cores. You didn't read his response as the criteria for an individual core does not suggest that the 2600K has 8 cores.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*









The 2600K only has 4 logical cores. You didn't read his response as the criteria for an individual core does not suggest that the 2600K has 8 cores.


?
I know 2600k has only 4 logical cores.. 
tell me where I wrote than the 2600k has 8 cores!

I wrote:

JF says that bulldozer fx 8xxx has 8 real cores, and dont care about people on the internet saying it is not 8 real core.

2500k is 4c/4th so IMHO it should be compared to the fx 4100 (4c/4th) , instead of comparing it to an fx 8xxx that is 8c/8th.

but the price tells us that i5 2500k = fx 8120 
so people have to think that the number of cores doesnt mean "everything", dont?

I respect everybody, so I cant understand why you use smiles to offend others.. take it easy


----------



## KyadCK

I'm thinking the idea is to compare CPUs at the same price point.

*hypothetical example:*
Oh, the $220 CPU-A is 4-core and the $220 CPU-B is 8-core, and CPU-B is only a little better... well, see, CPU-B is still better for $220. Guess which one I want.

I honestly don't care how much better CPU-A(2) is if it cost $300, I don't have that kind of money. I have a budget of $220 for a cpu, what is the BEST cpu I can get for *$220*. That is what I care about.

And the point brought up earlier about windows useing cores that the game doesnt is valid. If the game I am playing wants 4 cores, then I want a hex-core cpu.

Why? So Windows, IRC, MSN messenger, Chrome (lots of tabs), Word, NP++, media player, and all those other things I do can run on those other 2 cores in the backround and not try and take cycles away from my game. (I know I have a quad-core, all my games are old single/dual-core games)

So... yes, all of you are correct. Games only use 4 cores. Cool. But you aren't just running the game are you?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


2500k is 4c/4th so IMHO it should be compared to the fx 4100 (4c/4th) , instead of comparing it to an fx 8xxx that is 8c/8th.

but the price tells us that i5 2500k = fx 8120


You need to compare performance at a certain price point. AKA $220 for 2500k and $220 for FX81XX. You pay for total performance not for cores or per core performance...

A core vs core comparison would be cool just to see, but it is not relevant in any way when it comes to influencing a purchase decision. Power consumption, gaming performance, folding capability, etc will affect purchase decisions. Depending on the typical workload and personal preference.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KyadCK*


I'm thinking the idea is to compare CPUs at the same price point.

*hypothetical example:*
Oh, the $220 CPU-A is *2-core *and the $220 CPU-B is *32-core*, and CPU-B is only a little better... well, see, CPU-B is still better for $220. Guess which one I want.

I have a budget of $220 for a cpu, what is the BEST cpu I can get for *$220*. That is what I care about.


Agreed 100%

I changed the core count as well. Because regardless of the core count it doesnt matter. It's an arbitrary number when you are paying for performance.


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.

If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?

Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is one core other than "well,_ I_ think it is...."


Well, here, I'll let chew* explain it (much better than I can) http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...hmentid=120124 First your own company's patent diagram says it's 1 core, 2 clusters.

"Why is there still an on going discussion of core's modules.........

I don't give a rats ass what Marketing calls the chip.

AMD's patent draws a clear picture. They say a picture says a 1000 words right? AMD's own picture for there own patent.

Note core 100 not module 100 aka core 0, and then inside core 0 is 2 clusters A and B.

Case closed."

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...14#post4950314

BTW - by your example, the 2600k is also 8 cores. After all, the OS shows it as being 8 cores, right??! John, to be frank. You're a marketer playing an engineer.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity*


Well, here, I'll let chew* explain it (much better than I can) http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...hmentid=120124 First your own company's patent diagram says it's 1 core, 2 clusters.

"Why is there still an on going discussion of core's modules.........

I don't give a rats ass what Marketing calls the chip.

AMD's patent draws a clear picture. They say a picture says a 1000 words right? AMD's own picture for there own patent.

Note core 100 not module 100 aka core 0, and then inside core 0 is 2 clusters A and B.

Case closed."

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...14#post4950314

BTW - by your example, the 2600k is also 8 cores. After all, the OS shows it as being 8 cores, right??! John, to be frank. You're a marketer playing an engineer.


No need to be rude. You are a consumer so what's your point. Are you saying that just because you can link up something that says something different that you are correct.....as the cosumer, Joe-nobody, and you are questioning someone that works for AMD?? Chill out man.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KyadCK*


And the point brought up earlier about windows useing cores that the game doesnt is valid. If the game I am playing wants 4 cores, then I want a hex-core cpu.

Why? So Windows, IRC, MSN messenger, Chrome (lots of tabs), Word, NP++, media player, and all those other things I do can run on those other 2 cores in the backround and not try and take cycles away from my game. (I know I have a quad-core, all my games are old single/dual-core games)

So... yes, all of you are correct. Games only use 4 cores. Cool. But you aren't just running the game are you?


Except the vast majority of those applications will use few resources sitting in the background. You're not going to see an appreciable difference in the performance of the game by delegating those types of programs to 2 more cores. Do you have any issues alt-tabbing out of games and using the programs you mentioned with your X4?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity*


John, to be frank.


Haha who's Frank?

I don't know if the 2600k would meet all the criteria he laid out. Definitely meets the OS part, but I don't know about the rest.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


You need to compare performance at a certain price point. AKA $220 for 2500k and $220 for FX81XX. You pay for total performance not for cores or per core performance...


I know that we have to compare performance at a certain price point.

I think it is not such a great idea to publicize an 8core/8thread cpu that should perform less than a 4core/8thread cpu.
And also saying that people that are saying "it is not a real 8 core cpu" are wrong.

Maybe it was better (not for the marketing, I know) to say that we have a 4c/8t cpu, dont?

So why we have a funny video where the amd 8 core kill the intel cpu,
If we have that 8 cores should be compared to 4 cores without HT?
I cant see a killer right now. I hope I'll be wrong, for sure.

I expected to have a cpu that "killed" every cpu , dont?
Now we have a cpu cheaper than 250$ that should be compared to an i5 2500k (4c/4t) so I might be disappointed.

*Be honest, you expected that the bulldozer, the 8 core cpu, the return of fx, performed like an i5 2500k?*

I repeat. 
zambezi vs k10

- IPC increases
- frequency increases
- 32nm vs 45

and, if we "need to compare performance at a certain price point" we should have a fx 4xxx than perform less than a deneb, and a fx 6xxx than perform less than a thuban?

something is wrong. 
bulldozer was predicted as the MT "beast", we had the return of the glorious FX mark ... and now I have to compare it to a i5 2500k?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


Be honest, you expected that the bulldozer, the 8 core cpu, performed like an i5 2500k?


I would hope most people expected >2500k performance; the pricing for BD's top model was originally much higher.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

AMD's Stock has fallen extremely today.









http://www.statesman.com/business/am...t-1885482.html

Quote:



AMD blamed the problem on "manufacturing issues" at the German factory of its GlobalFoundries partner.

The disclosure was made after the close of market trading Wednesday, and investors did not take it well.


----------



## Asus11

ever heard of too little too late


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


AMD's Stock has fallen extremely today.









http://www.statesman.com/business/am...t-1885482.html


Yeah that pre-Q3 announcement really hit hard. There was 50% daily volume within an hour of opening rofl. Anyway, whoever invests should know its money they can afford to lose.


----------



## jck

In case any of you are interested:

It is patent #:7,702,888 
Titled: BRANCH PREDICTOR DIRECTED PREFETCH 
Issue Date of Patent: 04-20-2010

Anyways.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav451*


Yeah that pre-Q3 announcement really hit hard. There was 50% daily volume within an hour of opening rofl. Anyway, whoever invests should know its money they can afford to lose.


Just kicking myself for not selling when it it like $7.50 a share 2 weeks ago.


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Just kicking myself for not selling when it it like $7.50 a share 2 weeks ago.


Well I invest on much longer time horizons (several months, maybe longer). If you were planning to do something within 2011, yeah you might be a bit late


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Just kicking myself for not selling when it it like $7.50 a share 2 weeks ago.


if you can delay selling longer than AMD can delay releasing,then i think you will be golden


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.

If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?

Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is one core other than "well,_ I_ think it is...."


Cheers, thanks for the clarification - 
I mean - "It's 2 cores but they are only the 80%* of the speed of 2 CMP cores". is from AMD's official presentation.
And i am betting the * used tests are not the most heavy serial/fp threaded.
i also understand Integer pipelines are 2 but the Floating pipeline is 1 L2 is shared and so on.
The lack of benchmarks does not help either.

For the best of the market and customers (and my 2 CAD stations







) i hope Bulldozer is a wonderful chip and it's scaling and performance are excellent.

Link to quote for the 80% is http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/02/21...ign-solutions/

btw, Don't take my posts as an attack to the 8 Core naming and/or your posts.
I care about performance not if it's called core module or BFG as long as it delivers it's ok


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


So if fx 8xxx is 8 "real" cores, the 8 core fx (8c/8t) must be > 2600k (4c/8t) in MT, dont? 
so why in one post you said we should compare "the $220 2500k vs the $220 AMD FX, regardless of the core count"?

http://www.overclock.net/15105781-post6531.html

2500k is 4c/4th so it should be compared to the fx 4100, dont?

If amd says the fx 8core is 8 core/8 threads we expect that it must be better than a 4core/8threads cpu.

If IPC increases, frequency increaseas, instructions increases, 32nm vs 45nm etc.. 
we must have that bulldozer is better than k10 core to core at same frequency, dont?

So the fx 6xxx must be better than thuban, dont??
And the fx 4xxx must be better than deneb, dont??

I see everybody talking only about the fx 8xxx.. so I can't understand what is the "placement" of the fx 4xxx and the fx 6xxx, because the prices tells a different part of the story...


I think the car analogy would be:

- can you compare a Ferrari 458 and Mustang GT just because both are V8s?

On the other hand, most people would compare the Mustang with a G37, Genesis, or even Evo/STi, because they fall into similar price brackets.

Of course, the thing about cars is that you can have a V24, and won't need spcial "multithread highways" to use them!


----------



## liberato87

from

AMD Bulldozer "pre-order" info







by tankguys

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tankguys*


Latest ETA update from my supplier is now early November. This uncertainty is why I'm not quite ready to take actual orders yet - I don't want to tie up people's money until I can be more definitive


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oicw*


Of course, the thing about cars is that you can have a V24, and won't need spcial "multithread highways" to use them!


Yeah but you would needs a multithreaded Highway to truly enjoy it, Autoban


----------



## mav451

WTH...so is the NDA drop really a paper launch then? Or it could suggest the NDA break is actually much closer to end of October then.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


AMD's Stock has fallen extremely today.









http://www.statesman.com/business/am...t-1885482.html


So we're basically waiting on a production delay due to GlobalFoundries. So its not gonna be released tomorrow and definitely not 13th of October either.

Its probably only gonna be after 2 months minimum.

To me that means I will just spend money elsewhere. And probably look toward another cpu manufacture if I needed a cpu right now.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oicw*


I think the car analogy would be:

- can you compare a Ferrari 458 and Mustang GT just because both are V8s?

On the other hand, most people would compare the Mustang with a G37, Genesis, or even Evo/STi, because they fall into similar price brackets.

Of course, the thing about cars is that you can have a V24, and won't need spcial "multithread highways" to use them!


I repeat, I know that we have to compare price/performance, but I'm not saying :
bulldozer must be better than i7 2600k and cost 50$ less, ok?

I (and many others) expected more from bulldozer.
If last year somebody told me " AMD in q4 2011 will launch a cpu than will be competitive with the sandybridge released in q1 2011" probably I had laugh at him.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Except the vast majority of those applications will use few resources sitting in the background. You're not going to see an appreciable difference in the performance of the game by delegating those types of programs to 2 more cores. Do you have any issues alt-tabbing out of games and using the programs you mentioned with your X4?


Yes, the vast majority eat up very few resources. Each. They start to add up over time (even if it is a long time). It is nice to be able to use X amount of programs and not take a hit. Because I can do this, I don't bother closing... well, anything, when I go to run a game. I know my system can support it. I also know windows will balance the load so if I DO need the full 2 cores for whatever reason, It will shunt the other programs to the other cores. We're back the the 'games only use 4 cores, why should I have 8?' argument. My answer to it is: Multitasking

Having the extra cores does not effect performance of a dual-core game that much, I'll buy that... but in the end Crysis 2 uses 40-60% of my X4, so why would I ever need a 2500k? I wont see a big performance jump out of it since I'm not even maxing my Phenom II right? Same logic as 4 cores vs 8.

And no issues alt-tabbing, everything runs smooth. Did I really give the impression that my system was having problems?


----------



## 2010rig

I was going to reply to many individual comments, but why bother.

I look forward to the day when Bulldozer finally releases, and we see what it is made of.

I also look forward to the following comparisons.

FX-4100 vs Phenom II X4 980
FX-6100 vs Phenom II X6 1100T

*If the Phenom II's* above outperform their BD counterparts, will anyone think that something is wrong with that picture?

Or will they justify it by saying they are cheaper?

The point people are missing, and keep trying to justify is that in the *future *more multi-threaded games will take advantage of more cores.

When that future is here, there'll be *MUCH* better options for the price, instead of the then dated 8 core cpu's of today someday to be released.

We still don't know how Bulldozer will perform, or when it will be released, so there's really no point of arguing about it. At the end of the day, no one can prove their point since we all lack the valuable data.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

At this point BF3 is using 3 cores:










Havok probably isn't implemented yet though, and a slew of other changes... However this follows suit with Crysis 2 using 3 cores prior to the DX11 patch where it now uses less it seems and fps are capped at 100 (at least for me).

This relates to bulldozer because a lot of people are thinking about getting an eight core cpu to play it, and I just wanted to let people know you may not be able to take advantage of that many cores in this game.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KyadCK*


Yes, the vast majority eat up very few resources. Each. They start to add up over time (even if it is a long time). It is nice to be able to use X amount of programs and not take a hit. Because I can do this, I don't bother closing... well, anything, when I go to run a game. I know my system can support it. I also know windows will balance the load so if I DO need the full 2 cores for whatever reason, It will shunt the other programs to the other cores. We're back the the 'games only use 4 cores, why should I have 8?' argument. My answer to it is: Multitasking

Having the extra cores does not effect performance of a dual-core game that much, I'll buy that... but in the end Crysis 2 uses 40-60% of my X4, so why would I ever need a 2500k? I wont see a big performance jump out of it since I'm not even maxing my Phenom II right? Same logic as 4 cores vs 8.

And no issues alt-tabbing, everything runs smooth. Did I really give the impression that my system was having problems?


Well they don't really add up over time, at least CPU performance wise. Background programs require little overhead - it's just a program sitting in memory. Now if you're encoding and playing a game at the same time, sure, you'll see a difference. However, if you're doing something that CPU intensive it's probably going to be your main task - and a task that only very very few users will give their CPU.

I never said you needed a 2500k, that's why I asked if you had problems alt-tabbing out of games and using other programs. If your X4 can do it, surely a 2500k (still only 4 cores and no HT) can do it as well or better. This very fact proves my point, you're fabricating a need for those extra 2 cores (or 4 extra in BD's case) when in reality a 4 core CPU already fits all of your needs. By the time 6 or 8 cores are actually required first gen BD will be an absolute dinosaur. So why spread out value over 8 slower cores when I know I can get 4 faster cores for the same price and fit all my needs?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


At this point BF3 is using 3 cores:










Havok probably isn't implemented yet though, and a slew of other changes... However this follows suit with Crysis 2 using 3 cores prior to the DX11 patch where it now uses less it seems and fps are capped at 100 (at least for me).

This relates to bulldozer because a lot of people are thinking about getting an eight core cpu to play it, and I just wanted to let people know you may not be able to take advantage of that many cores in this game.



Here you go again, you don't know what the per core performance of a bulldozer core is and you continue to make these comparisons.

the answer is, the design says it is speeding up, your saying it isn't. BD appears to be going after both IPC and IPS


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


from

AMD Bulldozer "pre-order" info







by tankguys


BD keeps on slipping,slipping,slipping......into the future


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I was going to reply to many individual comments, but why bother.

I look forward to the day when Bulldozer finally releases, and we see what it is made of.

I also look forward to the following comparisons.

FX-4100 vs Phenom II X4 980
FX-6100 vs Phenom II X6 1100T

*If the Phenom II's* above outperform their BD counterparts, will anyone think that something is wrong with that picture?

Or will they justify it by saying they are cheaper?

The point people are missing, and keep trying to justify is that in the *future *more multi-threaded games will take advantage of more cores.

When that future is here, there'll be *MUCH* better options for the price, instead of the then dated 8 core cpu's of today someday to be released.

We still don't know how Bulldozer will perform, or when it will be released, so there's really no point of arguing about it. At the end of the day, no one can prove their point since we all lack the valuable data.


I only care about price ranges. I care about the 8150 and the 8120. I want to see all benchmarks from those 2 chips compared against 2500k and 2600k.

You can worry about the lesser CPU's all that you want, but I find it funny that I have never heard you get excited over the i3. Or is that your plan? If BD flops your'e going to get an i3 right?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Well they don't really add up over time, at least CPU performance wise. Background programs require little overhead - it's just a program sitting in memory. Now if you're encoding and playing a game at the same time, sure, you'll see a difference. However, if you're doing something that CPU intensive it's probably going to be your main task - and a task that only very very few users will give their CPU.

I never said you needed a 2500k, that's why I asked if you had problems alt-tabbing out of games and using other programs. If your X4 can do it, surely a 2500k (still only 4 cores and no HT) can do it as well or better. This very fact proves my point, you're fabricating a need for those extra 2 cores (or 4 extra in BD's case) when in reality a 4 core CPU already fits all of your needs. By the time 6 or 8 cores are actually required first gen BD will be an absolute dinosaur. So why spread out value over 8 slower cores when I know I can get 4 faster cores for the same price and fit all my needs?



this needs constant repeating, We don't know with any level of certainties that BD cores are slower, when everything about stuff inside them says they will be faster.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


BD keeps on slipping,slipping,slipping......into the future










How has this happened ? Has AMD ever given a official release date to the public ?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Here you go again, you don't know what the per core performance of a bulldozer core is and you continue to make these comparisons.

the answer is, the design says it is speeding up, your saying it isn't. BD appears to be going after both IPC and IPS


Sorry what? Are you putting words into my posts that weren't there originally?

I don't believe I ever compared anything to anything, I simply stated how many cores the game is currently using in open beta.


----------



## Evil Penguin

BF3 is using 3 cores or 6 threads. 
BD happens to have up to 8 cores.
I don't foresee BF3 performing poorly to say... The 2600k.

Time will tell. 
Hopefully AMD doesn't delay the crap out of BD anymore and releases on the 12th.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Seems to be running 29 threads over three cores, at least that's what windows says.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I only care about price ranges. I care about the 8150 and the 8120. I want to see all benchmarks from those 2 chips compared against 2500k and 2600k.

You can worry about the lesser CPU's all that you want, but I find it funny that I have never heard you get excited over the i3. Or is that your plan? If BD flops your'e going to get an i3 right?


I'm in the same boat as you, and will be making the same comparisons.

Since when is an 1100T a "lesser" CPU? Last I checked it's the best AMD has to offer today.

Are you really telling me that you don't care for the PER core performance?

Let me ask you this....

*HYPOTHETICALLY* speaking, if the 2500K outperforms the 8120 in most games, are you still going to buy the 8120?


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


So we're basically waiting on a production delay due to GlobalFoundries. So its not gonna be released tomorrow and definitely not 13th of October either.

Its probably only gonna be after 2 months minimum.

To me that means I will just spend money elsewhere. And probably look toward another cpu manufacture if I needed a cpu right now.


If you read the article, it states production problems only with Llano. If you read the Hardware news section, you'll see a couple articles stating the same thing that also state that bulldozer yields are fine. I'm guessing the problems with Llano have to do with mating Phenom II with a GPU, which is another reason AMD may have pushed up Trinity (using Bulldozer cores with GPU) to Q1 2012.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Seems to be running 29 threads over three cores, at least that's what windows says.


What's your point?
BF3 seems to be able to use up to 8 threads/cores.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


this needs constant repeating, We don't know with any level of certainties that BD cores are slower, when everything about stuff inside them says they will be faster.


EVERY current indication shows per core performance to be lesser than Intel's current offerings. Regardless, my point still stands - his X4 handles all his multitasking needs without a problem, it makes no logical sense to argue for getting an 8-core CPU for gaming with background applications.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


How has this happened ? Has AMD ever given a official release date to the public ?


You really want to argue that BD wasn't delayed? It was originally slated to be released in 2009!


----------



## Wbroach23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


BD keeps on slipping,slipping,slipping......into the future










I have to admit that was a nice Steve miller band reference i Lol'd.

And on note to everything else:

Honestly I'm perfectly happy with my 975BE and definitely not impatient about this processor, I'm probably not going to get it till I know its been fully optimized and everything is working the way it should. Although I am interested in seeing Beenchies I have no intentions of complaining. I fully understand the whole you don't get jack shizzle till launch, I wouldn't put anything I was working on but not finished with up anywhere, why the heck would I want to give my competitors a heads up especially if there new stuff isn't out yet?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm in the same boat as you, and will be making the same comparisons.

Since when is an 1100T a "lesser" CPU? Last I checked it's the best AMD has to offer today.

Are you really telling me that you don't care for the PER core performance?

Let me ask you this....

*HYPOTHETICALLY* speaking, if the 2500K outperforms the 8120 in most games, are you still going to buy the 8120?


I wasn't talking about the 1100t, I was talking about the 6100. Performance increases greatly with memory controller, which is what caused Phenom II to bottleneck and is what I'm hoping Bulldozer will greatly improve.

To answer your question, it depends on how big the difference is. I know for a fact that I won't be going Intel, but those are personal issues and I don't try to push them on anyone.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


What's your point?
BF3 seems to be able to use up to 8 threads/cores.


My point was BF3 seems to be able to use up to *3 threads/cores max*.

Assuming that's just rendering, havok or whatever they're using for physics/destruction may not be in yet.

What are you talking about SC?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


EVERY current indication shows per core performance to be lesser than Intel's current offerings. Regardless, my point still stands - his X4 handles all his multitasking needs without a problem, it makes no logical sense to argue for getting an 8-core CPU for gaming with background applications.


 Proof, what indications ? Faked benchmarks ?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


You really want to argue that BD wasn't delayed? It was originally slated to be released in 2009!


 Proof, please produce it.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scollins*


horse **** , your trying to imply that bd cores will be slower in ipc, when that statement has no basis in reality. Your like a nonstop ad for intel. You don't know, i don't know. But i do know that looking over the design data thats out there that the alu/alg should be 33% faster in int performance over previous amd designs. The fpu is also more powerful.

So stop acting like intel marketing. Stop spreading fud and or implying it by sandboxing around it with specious arguments born out of nothing.

If bd has ips core for core to match intel, then its a win. If ipc is close and clock rate is higher we will get high ips, which flatly is just as good as ipc.

I only care about how much work a bd core can do, the rest of your statements are semantical.


qft


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm in the same boat as you, and will be making the same comparisons.

Since when is an 1100T a "lesser" CPU? Last I checked it's the best AMD has to offer today.

Are you really telling me that you don't care for the PER core performance?

Let me ask you this....

*HYPOTHETICALLY* speaking, if the 2500K outperforms the 8120 in most games, are you still going to buy the 8120?


The decision to buy a CPU should be totally based in what your workloads are like and which CPU best fits those requirements. If a 2600k performs better in your workload scenario, buy it. If a BD fits in your workload scenario buy it, if a 1.2ghz snapdragon dual core ARM cpu fits your needs. Buy it.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



AMD officially confirms Bulldozer delay



Quote:



Schedules it for "late summer"
During its big conference at Computex, AMD officially broke the news that the Bulldozer is delayed to "late summer".












http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...ulldozer-delay

They never confirmed it was delayed, after releasing the AM3+ boards more than 90 days ago... But I think we can all assume with reasonable thought processes that it was in fact delayed, yet again.

I'm confused, first you're telling me what I'm saying without actually saying it, then you're telling me you weren't aware bulldozer was delayed... I'm not sure what...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I wasn't talking about the 1100t, I was talking about the 6100. Performance increases greatly with memory controller, which is what caused Phenom II to bottleneck and is what I'm hoping Bulldozer will greatly improve.

To answer your question, it depends on how big the difference is. *I know for a fact that I won't be going Intel,* but those are personal issues and I don't try to push them on anyone.


Understood, and I pretty much knew that already.

What is the point of saying that you're waiting for comparisons, when *you've already made up your mind on what you're going to buy*?

I truly am waiting for a comparison to see which route I'm gonna take, that's why I'm annoyed with the delays.

You on the other hand keep trying to discredit what I'm saying, when you're the one that is bias in this conversation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I only care about price ranges. I care about the 8150 and the 8120. I want to see all benchmarks from those 2 chips compared against 2500k and 2600k.

You can worry about the lesser CPU's all that you want, but I find it funny that I have never heard you get excited over the i3. Or is that your plan? If BD flops your'e going to get an i3 right?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Understood, and I pretty much knew that already.

What is the point of saying that you're waiting for comparisons, when *you've already made up your mind on what you're going to buy*?


Wrong, I want the comparisons to see if I'm going to buy anything period. If performance isn't there, I'm not wasting time on an upgrade.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I truly am waiting for a comparison to see which route I'm gonna take, that's why I'm annoyed with the delays.

You on the other hand keep trying to discredit what I'm saying, when you're the one that is bias in this conversation.


How am I trying to discredit anything? I'm just saying that CPUs outside of price ranges really shouldn't be compared.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*











http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...ulldozer-delay

They never confirmed it was delayed, after releasing the AM3+ boards more than 90 days ago... But I think we can all assume with reasonable thought processes that it was in fact delayed, yet again.

I'm confused, first you're telling me what I'm saying without actually saying it, then you're telling me you weren't aware bulldozer was delayed... I'm not sure what...


Can you please provide me with a actual press statement from AMD that specify the release date of bulldozer based cpu's.

thanks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

The slide, I hope that helps.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15114845*
> You really want to argue that BD wasn't delayed? It was originally slated to be released in 2009!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15114917*
> Proof, please produce it.


I suggest you get informed before blindly arguing with others.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-145.html#post14995475


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ballathefeared;15115029*
> can't be worse, can it?


proof


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15115036*
> I suggest you get informed before blindly arguing with others.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-145.html#post14995475


Excuse me ? I am not the one making specious statements about a product I don't actually have in my hands to base any claims of performance on. but I don't understand a good bit of uarch design.

blindly arguing ? uhh, theres that proof/evidence thing again.

Honestly most of this blog thread reads like a religious debate, some take it on faith, others want evidence and methodology to the process.

You are obviously totally fine with not wanting any substantiating evidence.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15115036*
> I suggest you get informed before blindly arguing with others.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-145.html#post14995475


Seems to be a lot of that going around as of late.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15114917*
> Proof, what indications ? Faked benchmarks ?


AMD faked their own demo?

Quote:


> Proof, please produce it.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bulldozer+2009


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15115075*
> AMD faked their own demo?
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bulldozer+2009


did AMD ever announce when bulldozer architectures would be released for sale.demos are just that, they provide proof to investors and share holder about product progress.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15115071*
> Excuse me ? I am not the one making specious statements about a product I don't actually have in my hands to base any claims of performance on. but I don't understand a good bit of uarch design.
> 
> blindly arguing ? uhh, theres that proof/evidence thing again.
> 
> Honestly most of this blog thread reads like a religious debate, some take it on faith, others want evidence and methodology to the process.
> 
> You are obviously totally fine with not wanting any substantiating evidence.


Are you really that ignorant/hard-headed that you will vehemently deny BD was delayed? Sad.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15115071*
> Excuse me ? I am not the one making specious statements about a product I don't actually have in my hands to base any claims of performance on. but I don't understand a good bit of uarch design.
> 
> blindly arguing ? uhh, theres that proof/evidence thing again.
> 
> Honestly most of this blog thread reads like a religious debate, some take it on faith, others want evidence and methodology to the process.
> 
> You are obviously totally fine with not wanting any substantiating evidence.


I take it you didn't click this link did you?
*http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-145.html#post14995475*

There's plenty of evidence to support that Bulldozer is delayed, whether you accept it or not, that's a completely different story.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15115096*
> Are you really that ignorant/hard-headed that you will vehemently deny BD was delayed? Sad.


It is only delayed if a date was set for release for the general public and then not met. Internally what they do is none of my or your bussiness. Being as I work in a hyper competitve industry, sometimes you go back and rebuild things because you hit a roadblock or bottle neck or it just didn't work.

so unles you can show me a official AMD press release about bulldozer, its just specious speculation.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15115074*
> Seems to be a lot of that going around as of late.


Sure does.......


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I take it you didn't click this link did you?
*http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post14995475*

There's plenty of evidence to support that Bulldozer is delayed, whether you accept it or not, that's a completely different story.


*It is only delayed if a release date was given and not met. *


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


*It is only delayed if a release date was given and not met. *


What ever floats your boat.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Wrong, I want the comparisons to see if I'm going to buy anything period. If performance isn't there, I'm not wasting time on an upgrade.

How am I trying to discredit anything? I'm just saying that CPUs outside of price ranges really shouldn't be compared.


Ok, it just seemed like you were trying to discredit what I'm saying.

You have a different view on this whole thing, and I respect that.

I too agree that CPU's should be compared within the same price ranges. But I also care for per core performance, *if* an FX 6 core and 4 core CPU end up performing worse than their previous generations counterparts, I find something very wrong with that.

Notice I said "if", we don't have the data yet.

I would expect a 4 - 6 core BD to outperform a 4 - 6 core Phenom II, and the 8 core BD to completely spank a 2600K. Why do I have these expectations?

We were told that BD was designed to be the highest single and multi-threaded compute core in history.


----------



## black96ws6

This is not a good sign:

http://www.overclock.net/15112120-post95.html

I hope Bulldozers arrive before the online Black Friday deals.

Because if they don't (or they just plain can't compete), I'm upgrading to a 2600k or SB-E and calling it a day. I need something beefy to play Civilization 5, BF3, and Counter Strike:Global Offensive


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


This is not a good sign:

http://www.overclock.net/15112120-post95.html

I hope Bulldozers arrive before the online Black Friday deals.

Because if they don't (or they just plain can't compete), I'm upgrading to a 2600k or SB-E and calling it a day. I need something beefy to play Civilization 5, BF3, and Counter Strike:Global Offensive










Buy whatever fits your needs now. If you wait for the future, it will never arrive.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


What ever floats your boat.










Theres reality and then theres you people.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


It is only delayed if a date was set for release for the general public and then not met. Internally what they do is none of my or your bussiness. Being as I work in a hyper competitve industry, sometimes you go back and rebuild things because you hit a roadblock or bottle neck or it just didn't work.

so unles you can show me a official AMD press release about bulldozer, its just specious speculation.


Whatever helps you rationalize it man







Any clearly thinking person can easily come to the conclusion that it was in fact delayed. I take it you haven't read the new today about lowered revenue forecasts? Well, here's a quote for you:

Quote:



Advanced Micro Devices said Wednesday that revenue for the third quarter ending October 1, 2011, would be lower than originally expected. The company blamed poor yields of its A-series "Llano" accelerated processing units (APUs) as well as delayed product shipments of its highly-anticipated chips based on Bulldozer micro-architecture.


Seems pretty clear to me, and any other sanely thinking person.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Buy whatever fits your needs now. If you wait for the future, it will never arrive.


BF3 and CS:GO aren't out yet, so I can afford to wait a few months


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

AMD Should announce BD today so its stocks go back up


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Whatever helps you rationalize it man







Any clearly thinking person can easily come to the conclusion that it was in fact delayed. I take it you haven't read the new today about lowered revenue forecasts? Well, here's a quote for you:

Seems pretty clear to me, and any other sanely thinking person.


 again, its not late unless this scenario occurs

Release date of july 21,2011 actuall release date is july 1 2025

Thats when it late.

Internally how they arrange production is none of our business. Right now they haven't broken a single bit of customer trust because they have not specified when these products will be available.

Its only late when isn't in stock, when they say it will be available for purchase.

everything else is a rationalization about when you think AMD should release a part to meet your expectations.

the only people failing are those setting themselves up for failure by creating false expectations not born out of reality.

It ships when it ships, and thats when its available.

mmmmkkaaay.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


My point was BF3 seems to be able to use up to *3 threads/cores max*.

Assuming that's just rendering, havok or whatever they're using for physics/destruction may not be in yet.

What are you talking about SC?











Yeah... Can't use more than 3 cores alright...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*










Yeah... Can't use more than 3 cores alright...










Maybe you can't use more then 3 of intels cores ?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Right now they haven't broken a single bit of customer trust because they have not specified when these products will be available.


Stopped reading right there. I guess you haven't read any of the posts in this thread.

Your idealized representation of a "delay" is not applicable to the real world, or how people perceive a delay. And that's all that matters.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Proof, please produce it.


Hope i did not just got trolled - Open AMD.COM if you don't trust any other site - type in bulldozer look at promisses to be released since 2009 (bla bla new architecture - end of 2009) 
Also in the AMD.COM blogs you can find the slide show with "Late summer 2011" - that was the latest official release date (hint my avatar is from an official AMD slide that can be found on AMD.COM from 1 June.)

http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/images...AL_website.pdf


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*










Yeah... Can't use more than 3 cores alright...










Now isolate the EXE and stop acting like you don't know any better.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


This is not a good sign:

http://www.overclock.net/15112120-post95.html

I hope Bulldozers arrive before the online Black Friday deals.

Because if they don't (or they just plain can't compete), I'm upgrading to a 2600k or SB-E and calling it a day. I need something beefy to play Civilization 5, BF3, and Counter Strike:Global Offensive










That's tank guys. Very possible that they are going to use the first batches to stock up at Newegg, TigerDirect, Fry's, etc.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Do we really need a 3 page argument about a delay?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Do we really need a 3 page argument about a delay?


Didn't you get the memo? Bulldozer is not delayed.

Source = SCollins


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Do we really need a 3 page argument about a delay?


This is the BD thread. We need to have a 3 page arguement about EVERYTHING that is in the slightest way debatable...Watch the arguement about BF3 cores, it's just warming up







lol


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Hope i did not just got trolled - Open AMD.COM if you don't trust any other site - type in bulldozer look at promisses to be released since 2009 (bla bla new architecture - end of 2009) 
Also in the AMD.COM blogs you can find the slide show with "Late summer 2011" - that was the latest official release date (hint my avatar is from an official AMD slide that can be found on AMD.COM from 1 June.)

http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/images...AL_website.pdf


When does summer end ? Still, I don't see a release date. No promise given, no promise broken.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Didn't you get the memo? Bulldozer is not delayed.

Source = SCollins


didn't you get the memo, specious arguments are specious.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


This is the BD thread. We need to have a 3 page arguement about EVERYTHING that is in the slightest way debatable...Watch the arguement about BF3 cores, it's just warming up







lol


That's definitely true, but an argument about the definition of delay is taking it to new lows. It's boring.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


This is the BD thread. We need to have a 3 page arguement about EVERYTHING that is in the slightest way debatable...Watch the arguement about BF3 cores, it's just warming up







lol


It's important since the x8 is being marketed as a gaming chip and people are considering it for gaming that we discuss exactly what games would be capable of actually utilizing those cores. One of the big ones on that list is BF3.

Here is my i5-2500k downclocked to 1.6GHz, GTX 470s in SLI running 900 core:










At times I got higher than 75% usage, however the exe once isolated shows system overhead is accountable for the extra usage, not the game.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


When does summer end ? Still, I don't see a release date. No promise given, no promise broken.


I tend to agree with you maybe by 60-90 days from 1 June is indeed somewhere in the middle of November (also November is the Ending of Summer according to Ursula Le Guin)


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


AMD's Stock has fallen extremely today.









http://www.statesman.com/business/am...t-1885482.html


Stock price has very little to do with what a company actually does or accomplishes.

Company's have alot of ways to deal with their investors in relation to their products and earnings. In the past it was 'common' practice to hide(cook the books) certain things just so the price could be pumped; we all know about that whole fiasco with enron (whom was only 1 company of many whom did something similar).

anyways ... many companies like amd just play it safe and give an advanced warning of earnings; investors dont take kindly to surprises but if you warn them ahead of time and let the speculators run their course it becomes smoother sailing in the future (hence oct 27th was listed as their earnings report date). And if there are any surprises like the release of said chip and its 'good' news = volia you have a nice uptick in the stock.

Its a game and companies are as much of a player as the 'investor' is.

- been following this thread (for a long time); just thought its time I create an account and get in on the 'friendly' banter


----------



## black96ws6

Anyone seen the new ASRock Extreme3 AM3+ board?










A new BD 8150 would look really good in that


----------



## djxput

dbl post


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


didn't you get the memo, specious arguments are specious.


How is it misleading to say it was delayed? People expected to have the chip by now, and they don't. Simple as that. In fact, saying is _wasn't_ delayed is the truly specious argument.


----------



## Madmanden

Lol, are we really arguing if BD is delayed or not? Really? I thought we went over that with Seronx.

2009. 2011. Q2. Q3. Now Q4.

SCollins, just stop. Please.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


*It is only delayed if a release date was given and not met. *



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


AMD Should announce BD today so its stocks go back up










No indication they know themselves, maybe be day to day production levels always changing a lot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Hope i did not just got trolled - Open AMD.COM if you don't trust any other site - type in bulldozer look at promisses to be released since 2009 (bla bla new architecture - end of 2009) 
Also in the AMD.COM blogs you can find the slide show with "Late summer 2011" - that was the latest official release date (hint my avatar is from an official AMD slide that can be found on AMD.COM from 1 June.)

http://www.amdcomputex.com.tw/images...AL_website.pdf


there has been multiple changing of when BD might be ready, that most call delays, and AMD has never been able to give a real single day since they must have too many uncertainties to know themselves

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Didn't you get the memo? Bulldozer is not delayed.

Source = SCollins


those 2 AMD guys in latest video saying Oct BD release, another big 30day window, not really official, and do they mean server or desktop

Another reason I went SB now is I have to start saving for something else big next year, so I wanted a solid games PC right now, BD was too late for me


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


from

AMD Bulldozer "pre-order" info







by tankguys


What happened to October?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Madmanden*


Lol, are we really arguing if BD is delayed or not? Really? I thought we went over that with Seronx.

2009. 2011. Q2. Q3. Now Q4.

SCollins, just stop. Please.


You have a 2500k...you care because?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


@SC, a lot. Given how many former AMD buddies I brought over, rightly so.


Lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I get $5 each time I convert an AMD user, and a bonus $2 if its an x6 user. Right now i have over $600 in my paypal account via Intel.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


How is it misleading to say it was delayed? People expected to have the chip by now, and they don't. Simple as that. In fact, saying is _wasn't_ delayed is the truly specious argument.


To make it abundantly clear. If no release date is given, why would someone expect it to to be here.

Lets start over with that thought process and let eliminate the logical flaw. No date, no expectation. IE, its not late.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

60-90 days isn't a date?

Quarter 2 isn't a date?

What are they then?

Guestimations?

AMD was guessing when they released that information?


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Anyone seen the new ASRock Extreme3 AM3+ board?










A new BD 8150 would look really good in that










Was checking out all the am3+ boards yesterday(again) and various reviews of them.

And did see this one - although cant remember if I saw any reviews on it; saw em on the fatality one thou and it was rated pretty good.

I know many users have and recommend the crosshair V here but I have seen a fair amount of comments issues with it from various people (and ya they may not be motherboard masters like you guys here but still makes you wonder.

I do like the look of this one here

- was going to say ...
http://www.asrock.com/microsite/AMD9/index.asp?c=Models
basically its a step down model on the fatality and extreme 4 - 
basically missing some usb slots (but how many do you actually need?), usb 3 panel errr who cares?, smart swith and dr debug (not sure what these do).


----------



## newnub123

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....144&highlight= dont sound good for us but thsi will be one of the problme too i think and it is OFFICIAL!!!


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


60-90 days isn't a date?

Quarter 2 isn't a date?

What are they then?

Guestimations?

AMD was guessing when they released that information?


Actually, those aren't dates....

Quote:



From *Dictionary.com*

1. Time stated in terms of the day, month, and year.

2. A specified day of a month.



A date be definition requires there to be a day, month, and year...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Are you sure?

I get dates out of 60-90 days, and quarter two, obviously has dates...

Ohhhh.. you got me,









Well played sir.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Are you sure?

I get dates out of 60-90 days, and quarter two, obviously has dates...

Ohhhh.. you got me,









Well played sir.


early in the year, AMD made statements regarding bulldozer availability for client being moved to Q4, that was back in like, March. Obviously tied with demand for llano. the moved llano up and bulldozer back.

And still, no date was given, just a quarter. right now at this moment, jan 1 2012 BD will be officially late, although in a recent press video one AMD executive stated October.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


early in the year, AMD made statements regarding bulldozer availability for client being moved to Q4,.


Proof?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How can they move it to Q4 if they never gave a previous date?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Proof?










I dunno about early in the year,but I think even JF-AMD said something about BD being out in Q4. There was also something said in a AMD conference video about October.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


EVERY current indication shows per core performance to be lesser than Intel's current offerings. Regardless, my point still stands - his X4 handles all his multitasking needs without a problem, it makes no logical sense to argue for getting an 8-core CPU for gaming with background applications. 
You really want to argue that BD wasn't delayed? It was originally slated to be released in 2009!


 Even if it was planned to be released in 2009,it doesn't count as a delay. Engineers most likely had a problem with BD working on 45nm,they're still having problems with yields on 32nm.
What indications? Speculations,rumors & fake benchmarks?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Now isolate the EXE and stop acting like you don't know any better.


Okay...


----------



## blabla125

there is way to many pages uggggh...
whered u get bf3?

Edit: downloading now


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Proof?










http://seekingalpha.com/article/2478...ipt?part=qanda


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15116048*
> Okay...


Well then I stand corrected.

What kind of frames are you getting there?

So how do we make sense of your system using more processor power?

Can you post one with gpu usage and fps counter?


----------



## blabla125

sorry i know this is super off topic but does bf3 have single player?

Edit:this is URGENT!

2nd Edit:Ignore this post problem solved


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15116098*
> http://seekingalpha.com/article/247826-advanced-micro-devices-ceo-discusses-q4-2010-earnings-call-transcript?part=qanda


Not to jump in this argument, but I didn't see any mention regarding the Zambezi line regarding a Q4 projected release. There was a lot of information regarding the APU side and the subsequent financial implications. Can you please point out where in that transcript they indicate that Q4 is the projected release date for Zambezi processors?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAF_wit;15116240*
> Not to jump in this argument, but I didn't see any mention regarding the Zambezi line regarding a Q4 projected release. There was a lot of information regarding the APU side and the subsequent financial implications. Can you please point out where in that transcript they indicate that Q4 is the projected release date for Zambezi processors?


I just typed Q4 and Bulldozer/Interlagos in the find menu - neither was shown in that transcript (Q4 2010 at one place).


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15116110*
> Well then I stand corrected.
> 
> What kind of frames are you getting there?
> 
> So how do we make sense of your system using more processor power?
> 
> Can you post one with gpu usage and fps counter?


I'll post that as soon as I get back from class.
The idea is to get the CPU to become the bottleneck.

A Phenom X4 9950 BE is by no means fast, but it does have 4 cores.
I have a Radeon HD 5770 installed and I suspect it's being bottle-necked.









What we do know for sure though, is that if need be...
The game can utilize up to 4 cores at least.
Could someone with an SB 2600 with HT enabled post their CPU usage?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAF_wit;15116240*
> Not to jump in this argument, but I didn't see any mention regarding the Zambezi line regarding a Q4 projected release. There was a lot of information regarding the APU side and the subsequent financial implications. Can you please point out where in that transcript they indicate that Q4 is the projected release date for Zambezi processors?


I'll have to keep digging, that call mentions moving up APU, there is another one regarding bulldozer scheduling. theres no one clear picture, for obvious reasons of competitiveness.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15116313*
> I'll post that as soon as I get back from class.
> The idea is to get the CPU to become the bottleneck.
> 
> A Phenom X4 9950 BE is by no means fast, but it does have 4 cores.
> I have a Radeon HD 5770 installed and I suspect it's being bottle-necked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What we do know for sure though, is that if need be...
> The game can utilize up to 4 cores at least.
> Could someone with an SB 2600 with HT enabled post their CPU usage?


I have two 470s heavily bottlenecked by a 1.6GHz forced downclock, I can't get anymore cpu usage out of it than that


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15115931*
> early in the year, *AMD made statements regarding bulldozer availability for client being moved to Q4*, that was back in like, March. Obviously tied with demand for llano. the moved llano up and bulldozer back.
> 
> And still, no date was given, just a quarter. right now at this moment, jan 1 2012 BD will be officially late, although in a recent press video one AMD executive stated October.


YOU CAN'T MOVE A RELEASE TIME FRAME WITHOUT AN EXPECTED TIME FRAME IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now imagine if I owed you money and I said I'd give it to you in Q4. Let's say I didn't actually pay you until 30 years later, you would argue that my payment was not delayed, simply because I didn't give a specific date? You're grasping at thin air my friend.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15116012*
> Even if it was planned to be released in 2009,it doesn't count as a delay. Engineers most likely had a problem with BD working on 45nm,they're still having problems with yields on 32nm.


That appears to be the very definition of a delay. How is it that hard to understand? 2009 has long since come and gone if you haven't noticed.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15114642*
> *Well they don't really add up over time, at least CPU performance wise.* Background programs require little overhead - it's just a program sitting in memory. Now if you're encoding and playing a game at the same time, sure, you'll see a difference. However, if you're doing something that CPU intensive it's probably going to be your main task - and *a task that only very very few users will give their CPU.*
> 
> I never said you needed a 2500k, that's why I asked if you had problems alt-tabbing out of games and using other programs. If your X4 can do it, surely a 2500k (still only 4 cores and no HT) can do it as well or better. This very fact proves my point, *you're fabricating a need for those extra 2 cores* (or 4 extra in BD's case) *when in reality a 4 core CPU already fits all of your needs.* By the time 6 or 8 cores are actually required first gen BD will be an absolute dinosaur. *So why spread out value over 8 slower cores when I know I can get 4 faster cores for the same price and fit all my needs?*


Alright, bolded parts 1-5:

1: Right, things like youtube and VMs don't drag on the cpu at all even if you aren't focused on them. Sorry, but I don't buy that.

2: Who is bulldozer 8XXX aimed at again? Certainly not the 'normal user' you are trying to justify for, that's llano. No, its for enthusiasts. The same ones who would buy a 980X or SB-E. We ARE the very few who do things like that.

3: You have no idea what I do at any given point in time. How can you state the claim that I am making up excuses for needing the 2 extra cores based on me only saying most of my games are dual? I love the ability do play Crysis 2 and compile the source for another game at the same time. Or encode while recording another. Why should I have to wait for one to be done? I can do both. That was the whole point of a quad-core. And so with bulldozer it will be easy to encode and record a quad-core game at the same time. Again, Multitasking, as stated as my reasoning before. If you like the concept of less, faster cores, then cool, but I like the idea of more still good speed cores, because I can do more at any one moment.

4: Again, you don't know what my needs are. As stated above I like the ability to do many things at a time. When I got the X4, the X6 was a little too expensive for the higher clock I wanted.

5: If bulldozer really does clock to 4.8 on air like rumors seem to say...? I'll take a 4.8 octo-core over a 4.8 quad-core any day of the week, especially in the same price range. Intel doesn't have -that- big of a lead.


----------



## flashtest

Well i still think a 4 core with greater per core performance will perform better than a 8 core with slower per core performance.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-phenom-ii-x6-1075t,2859-10.html - simple comparison between i3 2core vs Phenom x4, and i5 vs Phenom X6 clearly shows that not only core count but also core performance matters.

Indeed if AMD can deliver a SandyBridge per core performance then we have a winner,

Else it's a nobrainer that 2 cores at for example 100 GFLOPS/Frames/insert favorite benchmark > 4 Cores at 50 TFLOPS/Frames/insert favorite benchmark.

As for why games don't critically need more than 4 cores *for now*
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/cpus/ - You don't want to create a game that won't run good on 80% of the current hardware if you optimize it for more than 4 cores.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK;15116507*
> Alright, bolded parts 1-5:
> 
> 1: Right, things like youtube and VMs don't drag on the cpu at all even if you aren't focused on them. Sorry, but I don't buy that.
> 
> *Try it, open a youtube video and play your game. Notice any difference in FPS?*
> 
> 2: Who is bulldozer 8XXX aimed at again? Certainly not the 'normal user' you are trying to justify for, that's llano. No, its for enthusiasts. The same ones who would buy a 980X or SB-E. We ARE the very few who do things like that.
> 
> *True, but encoding is really one of the ONLY things that utilizes those extra cores. Even in the "enthusiast market" very few people will be heavily utilizing their CPU for those tasks. I'm justifying for the average enthusiast.*
> 
> 3: You have no idea what I do at any given point in time. How can you state the claim that I am making up excuses for needing the 2 extra cores based on me only saying most of my games are dual? I love the ability do play Crysis 2 and compile the source for another game at the same time. Or encode while recording another. Why should I have to wait for one to be done? I can do both. That was the whole point of a quad-core. And so with bulldozer it will be easy to encode and record a quad-core game at the same time. Again, Multitasking, as stated as my reasoning before. If you like the concept of less, faster cores, then cool, but I like the idea of more still good speed cores, because I can do more at any one moment.
> 
> *Yes, it's a great idea in theory but software simply is nowhere near the point of being able to make use of those extra cores.*
> 
> 4: Again, you don't know what my needs are. As stated above I like the ability to do many things at a time. When I got the X4, the X6 was a little too expensive for the higher clock I wanted.
> 
> *You said you were having no problems, I would think it would be a safe to assume your CPU is meeting your needs. If it's not, then you should have expressed that.*
> 
> 5: If bulldozer really does clock to 4.8 on air like rumors seem to say...? I'll take a 4.8 octo-core over a 4.8 quad-core any day of the week, especially in the same price range. Intel doesn't have -that- big of a lead.
> 
> *Those numbers are absolutely meaningless unless we know IPC*


--


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15116604*
> Well i still think a 4 core with greater per core performance will perform better than a 8 core with slower per core performance.
> .


and how did you come to the conclusion that this 8 core has slower core per core performance???

and how much would really matter in the end to make a difference???


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15116830*
> and how did you come to the conclusion that this 8 core has slower core per core performance???
> 
> and how much would really matter in the end to make a difference???


How does "a 8 core CPU" translate to "he said he knows 8-core BD has slow per core performance"?

And if that difference doesn't matter to you, then why are you here in the first place? Surely there are plenty of CPUs that already meet your needs if you're uninterested in performance differences between them.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15116652*
> You said YOURSELF that AMD moved the release timeframe back.Why does it have to be a specific date for it to be a delay? Are you really that dense?
> 
> FYI
> 
> Definition of DELAY
> transitive verb
> 
> 1
> : put off, postpone
> 2
> : to stop, detain, or hinder for a time
> 3
> : to cause to be slower or to occur more slowly than normal


Some people just don't get it man.

He tried to show that AMD pushed back the release to Q4 back in March, eventhough that's not true, because his source does not mention such a thing. In fact, his source is the CEO Discussing *Q4 2010* Earnings Call Transcript

*We all know the timeline.*

In November 2010, JF-AMD said:
Quote:


> *Product Schedules* - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. *We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011*. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


Q2 has come and gone, right? Delay #1.

On June 1st AMD said Bulldozer would be released in 60 - 90 days. That means Bulldozer should've been released *by September 1st*. Delay #2.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15115540*
> *When does summer end ?* Still, I don't see a release date. No promise given, no promise broken.


Second part of the slide states by "late Summer", if you did some research instead of blindly arguing, you would know that Summer is officially over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

Delay #3.

Perhaps this is not enough proof.

In September, AMD released a press release that Bulldozer would *now be released in Q4*. In other words, they did not meet their Q2 deadline, nor the 60 - 90 Day deadline, nor did they meet their "Late Summer" estimate.

If that's not proof of a "delay", well... what else can we tell ya?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15115543*
> didn't you get the memo, specious arguments are specious.


I completely agree with you.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15116897*
> How does "a 8 core CPU" translate to "he said he knows 8-core BD has slow per core performance"?
> 
> And if that difference doesn't matter to you, then why are you here in the first place? Surely there are plenty of CPUs that already meet your needs if you're uninterested in performance differences between them.


he's spewing this in a bulldozer thread .. it should be enough to know what he meant


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15117139*
> he's spewing this in a bulldozer thread .. it should be enough to know what he meant


First i am typing not spewing







and if you are one of those cable TV guys that read minds - sorry to inform you but you failed.









What i type is what i mean - like for example "Indeed if AMD can deliver a SandyBridge per core performance then we have a winner".

Thanks to the lack of benchmarks neither you nor i know what the per core performance will be, let us just hope it's not 80% of a Phenom II.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15117316*
> First i am typing not spewing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and if you are one of those cable TV guys that read minds - sorry to inform you but you failed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What i type is what i mean - like for example "Indeed if AMD can deliver a SandyBridge per core performance then we have a winner".
> 
> Thanks to the lack of benchmarks neither you nor i know what the per core performance will be, let us just hope it's not 80% of a Phenom II.


so tell me how can you make a statement saying that you'd prefer a 4 core with better core per core performance then a slower 8 core cpu ... how much slower would it be before you only consider the *better* end product ???


----------



## Canis-X

JF-AMD. Anything new that can be shared concerning BD? How many people are on the BD team?

Off topic:

How is that new bike treating you? Did you get it fixed?


----------



## flashtest

Simple - from a purely performance point of view - just compare a i7 2600K to a Phenom II 1100T BE 4 cores vs 6 cores. - that's where PerCore Performance kicks in.
Hell even if you add 33% on that phenom - making it a perfect scaled 8 core it still renders slower... (and i chose rendering cause it scales nice with cores and is something i do on my CAD machine.)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/17 for example.

- else WoW is a perfect Heavy single core game -
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/20

And no i am not arguing if intel is better or not i plainly hope for nice single core performance - which will make an excellent multi-core one.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15117651*
> Simple - from a purely performance point of view - just compare a i7 2600K to a Phenom II 1100T BE 4 cores vs 6 cores. - that's where PerCore Performance kicks in.
> Hell even if you add 33% on that phenom - making it a perfect scaled 8 core it still renders slower... (and i chose rendering cause it scales nice with cores and is something i do on my CAD machine.)
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/17 for example.
> 
> - else WoW is a perfect Heavy single core game -
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/20
> 
> And no i am not arguing if intel is better or not i plainly hope for nice single core performance - which will make an excellent multi-core one.


We know the 2600K is faster,but the anandtech "bench" is a terrible way to compare processors.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15117203*
> That was never a delay,no release date at all was given.
> 
> This.


Lol ok, if you can't understand that it's been delayed with all the information already presented, I can only conclude you are mentally challenged.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15117802*
> We know the 2600K is faster,but the anandtech "bench" is a terrible way to compare processors.


Me too, and i am hoping Bulldozer changes that in favor of AMD (and not by only fusing 8 cores and winning in some synthetics either but delivering outstanding Single AND Multicore performance.)

Have choosen anandtech due to the alphabetical order in my tabs







- every hardware review site has some SB reviews and the picture is not much different 4 SB Cores outperform 6 PII cores in rendering and gaming.

Damn, made a statement that i hope Bulldozer cores outperform SB cores or at least Phenom II cores in a Bulldozer thread and i am getting toasted for that...

Linked official statement of AMD having expected release dates for Bulldozer in Q3 - got flamed for that too.

Tried to gasp difference between Module and 2 pure cores (which by AMD's official statement is 80% in favor of the pure 2 cores) and got blamed that i don't understand what a core is









Good luck guys and awaiting some official benchmarks.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15117020*
> Some people just don't get it man.
> 
> He tried to show that AMD pushed back the release to Q4 back in March, eventhough that's not true, because his source does not mention such a thing. In fact, his source is the CEO Discussing *Q4 2010* Earnings Call Transcript
> 
> *We all know the timeline.*
> 
> Q2 has come and gone, right? Delay #1.
> 
> On June 1st AMD said Bulldozer would be released in 60 - 90 days. That means Bulldozer should've been released *by September 1st*. Delay #2.
> 
> Second part of the slide states by "late Summer", if you did some research instead of blindly arguing, you would know that Summer is officially over.
> 
> Delay #3.
> 
> Perhaps this is not enough proof.
> 
> In September, AMD released a press release that Bulldozer would *now be released in Q4*. In other words, they did not meet their Q2 deadline, nor the 60 - 90 Day deadline, nor did they meet their "Late Summer" estimate.
> 
> If that's not proof of a "delay", well... what else can we tell ya?


Yea, I don't get this guy neither. lol.

Delay after delay flies by and he says "this is not a delay/there never has been a delay"...









Almost makes you wonder why.

Trying to deny it, this is funny.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15118084*
> Yea, I don't get this guy neither. lol.
> 
> Delay after delay flies by and he says "this is not a delay/there never has been a delay"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost makes you wonder why.
> 
> Trying to deny it, this is funny.


The sad part is, he's not the only one.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15117203*
> That was never a delay,no release date at all was given.
> 
> This.


I wonder what JF-AMD would say in regards to Bulldozer delays?

Are they fact or fiction or no comment?









Please, no airport or car analogies.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I really hope the launch hasn't been pushed back to November.
That would piss me off, again...


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15118153*
> I really hope the launch hasn't been pushed back to November.
> That would piss me off, again...


at this point i wouldnt be surprised if it gets pushed back until Dec(i also think availability is going to be an issue)


----------



## KyadCK

*Try it, open a youtube video and play your game. Notice any difference in FPS?*

I didn't say it would effect my fps, I said they eat up cpu power even when not the focused window. But if my cpu were at 100% with only the game, I would feel an effect from youtube, yes.

*True, but encoding is really one of the ONLY things that utilizes those extra cores. Even in the "enthusiast market" very few people will be heavily utilizing their CPU for those tasks. I'm justifying for the average enthusiast.*

I see... so... why do people buy 980X and plan to buy SB-E? A 2600K would be enough, right? surely the $1000 price tag isn't worth the small performance gain. But... bulldozer is supposed to be for around the same price as a 2500k/2600k. So why not get it?

Also, I do NOT care what any -one- program can use. I care about the total. That means if I want to encode, and play with VMs, and game, all at once, I should be able to. Now you are right, even the average enthusiast might not try that. And for them there are quad/hex core bulldozer or a nice 2500k. But for those who want their computer to do everything they can think of without breaking a sweat, that is the target of the strongest chips Intel and AMD sell. And AMD is going to sell their 8150's, and people are going to buy them, and a few people might even max them out. Regardless of how worthless -you- think an octa-core might be, there are many people who could find a use for them.

*Yes, it's a great idea in theory but software simply is nowhere near the point of being able to make use of those extra cores.*

You are still thinking in the realm of 'one program' while I am thinking in the realm of 'many programs'. I promise you if I have 2 programs that can use 4 cores both maxing out, the end result is program 1 gets cores 1-4, and program 2 gets cores 5-8, and the CPU becomes maxed. they do not both fight for 1-4 leaving 5-8 to sit there and do nothing. This is kinda why servers are sold with 32+ cores, so it isn't a simple theory.

*You said you were having no problems, I would think it would be a safe to assume your CPU is meeting your needs. If it's not, then you should have expressed that.*

I'm not having problems. However, I would love to have 2 more cores that I can dedicate 2 to just VMware. It would be nice to keep those OSs up 24/7. There's a great reason for an X6 over an X4 right there, and the only one I need to justify wanting a hex-core, or even an octa-core.

*Those numbers are absolutely meaningless unless we know IPC*

Not really. Unless Intel has a 80%+ lead in per-core performance, it is a safe assumption that double the cores at the same clock for the same price is a fair choice, at least for those who are creative enough to make use of it.


----------



## catharsis

the biostar looking pretty sleek, though I think I'll give ASUS a go this time around.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15118374*
> Yes, we were told many, many times when BD would be released. It doesn't matter if it's a date, or a timeframe - it's still been delayed. Why don't you ask all the consumers on this forum if they believed it's been delayed. I can GUARANTEE the vast majority would say yes. I could not care less what company this is coming from, but your vehement denial tell me exactly where your sentiments lie. I might not be a rocket scientist (Computer Engineer) but hell, a 10 year old could see that's its been delayed.
> 
> OF COURSE there are changes to the final plan, that still doesn't mean its not a delay. But as soon as the consumer is told a date, a timeframe or anything of the like to expect a release and that is not met, there is a delay.


Then please tell us what the release date for 2009 was?
Many of the release dates you were expecting were just rumors.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15118634*
> Then please tell us what the release date for 2009 was?
> Many of the release dates you were expecting were just rumors.


Many? So there were some that weren't just rumors?

And you've also accused JF-AMD of being a liar/posting false information as he originally stated that Q2 was when to expect a release. It's now Q4. That's not a delay to you?


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15118252*
> at this point i wouldnt be surprised if it gets pushed back until Dec(i also think availability is going to be an issue)


Yes that would be the other thing, wouldn't it?

If it finally does get released, will it fly off the shelf because there aren't enough. Especially including the already delay and behind schedule issue.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15118753*
> Yes that would be the other thing, wouldn't it?
> 
> If it finally does get released, will it fly off the shelf because there aren't enough. Especially including the already delay and behind schedule issue.


yep stores like newegg will be sold out so fast

Sent from my DROID Powered by AMD FX2120 using Tapatalk


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15118753*
> Yes that would be the other thing, wouldn't it?
> 
> If it finally does get released, will it fly off the shelf because there aren't enough. Especially including the already delay and behind schedule issue.


BD will only fly off retailer shelves if it turns out to be worth the wait.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15118693*
> Many? So there were some that weren't just rumors?
> 
> And you've also accused JF-AMD of being a liar/posting false information as he originally stated that Q2 was when to expect a release. It's now Q4. That's not a delay to you?


JF-AMD never lied,he was just providing info given to him by AMD. AMD lied about Q2 if want to call it that. Things like yield issues or bugs in the chip happen.
With such a historic processor for AMD,they cannot afford to fall behind again. Would you prefer that AMD release Bulldozer in June but it turn out to be disappointing,like the Phenom I with the TLB error,or wait until October(or whenever in Q4) for a processor that could possibly compete with or beat SB?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15118374*
> Yes, we were told many, many times when BD would be released. It doesn't matter if it's a date, or a timeframe - it's still been delayed. Why don't you ask all the consumers on this forum if they believed it's been delayed. I can GUARANTEE the vast majority would say yes. I could not care less what company this is coming from, but your vehement denial tell me exactly where your sentiments lie. I might not be a rocket scientist (Computer Engineer) but hell, a 10 year old could see that's its been delayed.


Show me a AMD press release that states explicitly when BD would be released. Just show us the press releases. Then you can claim "victory". My sentiments are grounded in reality. Whatever AMD has as far as internal expectations, that has got nothing to do with your assertions. You are clearly not a rocket scientist, you seem to have trouble grasping simple facts.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15118374*
> OF COURSE there are changes to the final plan, that still doesn't mean its not a delay. But as soon as the consumer is told a date, a timeframe or anything of the like to expect a release and that is not met, there is a delay.


A delay for whom specifically ? Every company wants new tech instantly, they just have to work backwards to reality. I never saw a "expected release date" issued anywhere.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15118122*
> I wonder what JF-AMD would say in regards to Bulldozer delays?
> 
> Are they fact or fiction or no comment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please, no airport or car analogies.


Launch is in q4. Nothing has changed. The statement was reiterating what we said directly to the street.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15118634*
> Then please tell us what the release date for 2009 was?
> Many of the release dates you were expecting were just rumors.


The 2009 date was for a 45nm part. We never built that part. We canceled the project and started over, doing it as a 32nm design.

The real problem was that the bulldozer name stuck. In my opinon it should have been changed, but I don't name those the architectures, I only name the server chips.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15119102*
> JF-AMD never lied,he was just providing info given to him by AMD. AMD lied about Q2 if want to call it that. Things like yield issues or bugs in the chip happen.


Nobody lied about anything. If you tell someone something and then the plan of record changes, you were telling the truth at the time, but the facts have changed.

Every statement about launch dates is tied directly to what is the plan of record at the time.

If you look at all of my postings in all of the different forums, you could probably pinpoint the time that I found out that the plan had changed. There is a period where I stopped commenting because I knew that there were going to be schedule changes. Unfortunately that happens in this business. I am sure that there are people at other companies right now who have products that are not going to meet the schedules, but changing schedules in public can have an impact in the market, so they aren't allowed to comment.

In my mind the easist way to solve this in the future is to just lock things down and say "no comment" on everything until launch. But, based on how many posts there are on this thread, people want to talk about these things so that probably wouldn't go over well. We tell you what we can. Some of it might not pan out the way you think, but that is the risk when you talk about anything before launch.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15118933*
> yep stores like newegg will be sold out so fast
> 
> Sent from my DROID Powered by AMD FX2120 using Tapatalk


I don't see it selling out on newegg and tigerdirect. When the preorder link went up on blt 10 people ordered. Wouldn't you think if it was in such high demand those 50 inbound would have been spoken for in a day?

People want benchmarks. If its a solid performer IMO it'll sell really good. If it loses to the 2500K i see mediocre sales.

Bulldozer is like the freak show at the carnival. Everyone's curious but were not going to enter unless there's something really cool inside


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

You guys need to stop the arguing about what AMD did and didn't say regarding release dates. I think you all have gotten your points through so call a truce and please stop








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15119250*
> I don't see it selling out on newegg and tigerdirect. When the preorder link went up on blt 10 people ordered. Wouldn't you think if it was in such high demand those 50 inbound would have been spoken for in a day?
> 
> People want benchmarks. If its a solid performer IMO it'll sell really good. If it loses to the 2500K i see mediocre sales.


Once AMD Announces the launch, and Benchmarks are shown it will fly off the shelves if it was proven to be worth the way.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Edit DBL Post sorry


----------



## Darkpriest667

There are 3 trains

on the first track we have a Sandy bridge train moving at 31.4 mph starting at 3:30 p.m. 158 miles from the intersection

on the second track we have an Ivy bridge train moving at 35 mph starting at 5:15 p.m. 210 miles from the intersection

on the third track we have a Bulldozer train moving at 30mph starting at 4:10pm (wait 4:25 p.m.) ........ (wait 10 to 15 minutes from 4:25 p.m.) ........ (sometime between 4:45 and 5:00 p.m.)

All three trains will hit the intersection at what times?

Bonus what time did the bulldozer train really start moving.

P.S. JF-AMD if you only have control over server line why didn't you have it renamed to something besides bulldozer?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15119256*
> Once AMD Announces the launch, and Benchmarks are shown it will fly off the shelves if it was proven to be worth the way.


And you know this how or is it just an assumption?


----------



## FurryCreatures

Looks like this thread is definitely worth reading these days.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15119395*
> And you know this how or is just an assumption?


You know, I wonder if this is correct.

http://www.actionfactor.com/pages/workshops/teacher-workshop-reading-comprehension.html

Because that's not what he said, though he did misspell wait as in (worth the wait)


----------



## NuclearSlurpee

Wait, Bulldozer is still coming out next month right?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuclearSlurpee;15119751*
> Wait, Bulldozer is still coming out next month right?


"launch is at launch" - JF-AMD


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuclearSlurpee;15119751*
> Wait, Bulldozer is still coming out next month right?


Tankguys says November now


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15119806*
> Tankguys says November now


Tankguys works for AMD ?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15119842*
> Tankguys works for AMD ?


Tankguys is a reputable dealer on this site. If his supplier says November then why shouldn't we believe him?


----------



## Schmuckley

grr..dat's it ..amd can wait on me now..i'm building super-bong..lol..danner 9.5..6 inch pipe,2 3" shower heads..9 feet tall...i'll have computer fun with or without amd ,,,still debating on putting the sandy bridge stuff back together,though


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15119247*
> Launch is in q4. Nothing has changed. The statement was reiterating what we said directly to the street.


Thanks, but I was more commenting on the previous Q2 & Q3 timelines given earlier this year. Those obviously changed for reasons the public will never know, but some people have a hard time grasping that, and insist there was no delays encountered this year.

I wish you would step up and set the record straight.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> BD will only fly off retailer shelves if it turns out to be worth the wait.


I meant more that for example I know a large group of overclockers and reviewers who will probably get it immediately. Not to run it in their own systems necessarily, but to test out what it can do.

Plus most likely some amd fans who will really want it to test out for themselves. Those will buy a fast one out of the stores.

The average consumer is the average consumer lets say. Would most likely acquire it later. You know.
Quote:


> Tankguys works for AMD ?


Face it man, its not gonna come out tomorrow. Stop saying does this work for amd or does that work for amd. Do you work for amd? No. And attacking everyone that says its gonna come out later or making a comment.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15119890*
> Tankguys is a reputable dealer on this site. If his supplier says November then why shouldn't we believe him?


Microcenter employee said they will begin selling October 12th. Plus all the other information also points to Oct 12th as the official sell date.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Face it man, its not gonna come out tomorrow. Stop saying does this work for amd or does that work for amd. Do you work for amd? No. And attacking everyone that says its gonna come out later or making a comment.


I've never made any statements to BD release. In fact if you want to read back through my posts, I have been saying to people, stop with the FUD already. We don't know. It launches when it launches. I will continue to tell everyone who makes any statements about launch to stop doing that. Its not helping.

You miss the obviousness of Intel shills coming in here tell us how apocalyptic this cpu must be because it didn't ship when they expected it to. Perhaps when technology pundits trying to create page hits told them it should.

Yes I think Intel marketing people either directly or by proxy are out spreading all the rumors they can. Because well, its just a good tactic to delegitimize your competition.

Heres my favorites.

Its late, its late it must suck AMD can't build cpu's
Yields are bad
GloFo is bad
core count is high it must suck at IPC
price is to high it can't compete
price is to low it can't compete
core count don't matter

Should I continue ?

you know what all those comments infer ? That AMD can't build cpu's. Which is Bull and we all know it.


----------



## NuclearSlurpee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Tankguys says November now










It IS a myth!


----------



## pale_neon

someone somewhere in AMD is pulling they're hair out reading this thread i'm sure.

possibly banging their head against the keyboard on occasion too.


----------



## AK-47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pale_neon*


someone somewhere in AMD is pulling they're hair out reading this thread i'm sure.

possibly banging their head against the keyboard on occasion too.


because they care?
we are a pretty insignificant part of their revenue that it doesn't even matter what we think


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AK-47;15120542*
> because they care?
> we are a pretty insignificant part of their revenue that it doesn't even matter what we think


Well we ARE the target market for the FX series CPUs


----------



## Particle

Kind of. We're more of an afterthought than anything. The highest end models are always released for publicity. When they work with overclockers in overclocking events, that's also going to be a large part of their motive--it looks good. Their money comes from OEMs and mainstream aftermarket parts.


----------



## StarDestroyer

The BD delivery truck was ambushed by a yeti in a big snow storm

AMD should fire global foundires and start a NEW 28nm BD for 2013


----------



## Nocturin

Yesh 20 pages of bickering since I last checked this thread. anyways

On topic.

@JF, if I read correctly you mentioned that you named the server procs, why did you choose "Interlagos"? (hope i spelled that correctly)

p.s excited for server launch so I can drool over that 16 core wallpaper!


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Thanks, but I was more commenting on the previous Q2 & Q3 timelines given earlier this year. Those obviously changed for reasons the public will never know, but some people have a hard time grasping that, and insist there was no delays encountered this year.

*I wish you would step up and set the record straight. *











After launch, maybe he will tell us the reason for the two schedule changes and maybe he won't... not really sure if it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Though I as well am curious about the details.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


*"For many of the games"* is the factual part.









BC2 happens to be *one* of those games that utilizes more cores.

I wonder if there's data out there that shows how many games available today use 2 cores, how many use 2-4 cores, and how many use more than 4 cores.

That would be an interesting pie chart to see.


You're also forgetting that any game that uses 2 cores would benefit from the addition of an extra core for the OS and other running programs to be able to use. Not as much as a game optimized for 4 or more cores, but its still a benefit.


----------



## RAMP4NT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Tankguys says November now


Tankguys is such a tiny dealer, even their supplier probably gets a fraction of the inventory that Newegg, Fry's, TigerDirect, etc demand. So it makes sense that Tankguys would not fall on the list of priority vendors to send the first batch of BD to. I mean, let's say they have yield issues, I doubt they're sparing any of Newegg's chips for a small time retailer...

In conclusion, the Tankguys date is _their _date. That's when they're getting their shipment, that does not mean other, larger stores who pull more weight won't get an earlier batch.


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RAMP4NT*


Tankguys is such a tiny dealer, even their supplier probably gets a fraction of the inventory that Newegg, Fry's, TigerDirect, etc demand. So it makes sense that Tankguys would not fall on the list of priority vendors to send the first batch of BD to. I mean, let's say they have yield issues, I doubt they're sparing any of Newegg's chips for a small time retailer...

In conclusion, the Tankguys date is _their _date. That's when they're getting their shipment, that does not mean other, larger stores who pull more weight won't get an earlier batch.


I would imagine even Newegg wouldn't be first priority. The OEM market like dell would be first priority for AMD. People who build their own PC's are a niche. Most people will buy your PC's at the store, so obviously Dell/Levono/Asus etc will get dibs first.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


You're also forgetting that any game that uses 2 cores would benefit from the addition of an extra core for the OS and other running programs to be able to use. Not as much as a game optimized for 4 or more cores, but its still a benefit.


You're assuming the two cores are maxing out on the game, which is simply not the case if you have fast enough per core performance to handle both the game and background tasks.

Currently AMD has the only processors on the market that actually benefit from an extra core in many games, such as WoW.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Particle*


Kind of. We're more of an afterthought than anything. The highest end models are always released for publicity. When they work with overclockers in overclocking events, that's also going to be a large part of their motive--it looks good. Their money comes from OEMs and mainstream aftermarket parts.



I think we have more influence on the rest of the market than they give us credit for, but we have less influence than many of us think we do as well.

I think a perfect example of how we influence buying would be when I went to purchase an SSD. I saw the SF controller drivers were faster, quite a bit faster than other brands using their own controller (or so I thought). So of course looking at that side of it and the price, which was really good for it's speed compared to the other brands I was going to go with a SF ssd. However when I asked the people who know more than me, they told me the SF ssd was pleaged by problems and that the M4 was a more reliable SSD with only slightly slower speeds. In the end instead of going with what I thought was the best/fastest product, I went with what other people thought was the best product. Instead of SF getting my money, Crucial did, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had an experience like this.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


That would save a lot of the bickering coming from SCollins and a few others, who are convinced that BD was never delayed.


You can not simply delay a Bulldozer


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


You can not simply delay a Bulldozer










A bulldozer is never late, 2010rig, nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


A bulldozer is never late, 2010rig, nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to.


Made me almost spill out my morning Coffee








Hope it does not die from a Balrog shortly after and we have to wait another yea... erm book for Piledriver the White


----------



## Optimus_Prime

For the last 40 pages i saw only bickering... AMD late INTEL this.... FFS people learn some decency and stay in your corner and wait like the rest of us we don't care if you have a 2500k we don't care if you think AMD sucks for whatever byased reason we do not care if you have a farming station shut up alredy.Buldozer thread = bulldozer information only. Attacking AMD is one thing but JF does not disserve the treatment that this thread has offer so many times. WAIT FOR THE LAUNCH DATE you already waited so much time what are more 15 days or so nothing if you put in balance the time you wasted already. JF told it right buy what you need when you need nobody is forcing you to wait go for what you want or need . You have brought this on yourself. Be patient wait or go buy something elce.


----------



## etlecho

Holy smokes!

I'm away for like 12h and suddenly there are more than 12 pages and a flamewar in the making.

On topic:
Regarding release date it seems that many sites are offering oct 12th as release. And some sites seem to take preorders 
http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-F...r-224429.shtml


----------



## StarDestroyer

how can anyone say BD wasn't delayed when AMD said at computex it was scheduled for 60-90days from june 1st

they had a time frame, the missed it, thats a delay


----------



## hazarada

i don't know if you guys have noticed but AMD's higher staff is almost exclusively populated by people from mobile hardware backgrounds nowdays, amd i trying hard to become VIA it seems


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


For the last 40 pages i saw only bickering... AMD late INTEL this.... FFS people learn some decency and stay in you corner and wait like the rest of us we don't care if you have a 2500k we don't care if you think AMD sucks for whatever byased reason we do not care if you have a farming station shut up alredy.Buldozer thread = bulldozer information only. Attacking AMD is one thing but JF does not disserve the treatment that this thread has offer so many times. WAIT FOR THE LAUNCH DATE you already waited so much time what are more 15 days or so nothing if you put in balance the time you wasted already. JF told it right buy what you need when you need nobody is forcing you to wait go for what you want or need . You have brought this on yourself. Be patient wait or go buy something elce.


I think the mods have _*Deleted*_ more than 40 pages of stupid stuff like that. Even when you post something like this trying to help out you will get flamed.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


how can anyone say BD wasn't delayed when AMD said at computex it was scheduled for 60-90days from june 1st

they had a time frame, the missed it, thats a delay


are you still trolling? give it a rest already.


----------



## liberato87

anyone remember this (december 2010) : zambezi performs 50% better than 1100t. (performance doubled in gaming and render)

and we can read above
*
"render performance is based on Cinebench R11.5"*










and now?

watching the slides of donaninhaber (that seems to come from amd) we see in cinebench that



someone lied..


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


@JF, if I read correctly you mentioned that you named the server procs, why did you choose "Interlagos"? (hope i spelled that correctly)


The processor names had been focused on Formula 1 race cities but we are running out of ones that our lawyers will let us use so we are moving to cities in general. The platform names were based on Formula 1 test tracks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


After launch, maybe he will tell us the reason for the two schedule changes and maybe he won't... not really sure if it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Though I as well am curious about the details.










Sorry, that is confidential, I could never discuss that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I was actually referring to something much simpler than that.

That would save a lot of the bickering coming from SCollins and a few others, who are convinced that BD was never delayed.

We all know the truth, but it's annoying to deal with.









In regards to the 2 scheduled changes...

I agree, in my other quote the recommended CPU is a Quad core. Which is why the 2500K is so popular today.

For MOST of today's games 4 strong cores > 6 - 8 weak cores.

That's why we see 1100T's not doing as well in gaming either. Heck, even the 980X is overkill for today's games.

The 8 core BD should do very well in Rendering, Encoding and other multi-threaded environments.

We'll see how it does in gaming.



Please go back and remove that quote. I did NOT say that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


I'm pretty sure that JF will have a problem with how you posted that making it look like a quote from him. You might want to over emphasize that he actually did not say that.


Yeah, that is a really bad thing. Someone hits that thread, sees that and posts it somewhere else on the internet and I land in a lot of trouble. It needs to be corrected immediately.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


You're assuming the two cores are maxing out on the game, which is simply not the case if you have fast enough per core performance to handle both the game and background tasks.

Currently AMD has the only processors on the market that actually benefit from an extra core in many games, such as WoW.


And you're forgetting that nearly no CPU is that fast, and even if they are there's still benefits to be had simply because the CPU isn't switching between tasks ultra fast, the difference is small then, yes, but its still there.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


The processor names had been focused on Formula 1 race cities but we are running out of ones that our lawyers will let us use so we are moving to cities in general. The platform names were based on Formula 1 test tracks.


Damn lawyers - i would like to have a Zandvoort CPU (in love with this city).

On a side note - Is it possible for you to tell us if customers that have received Interlagos as a revenue shipment (Cray/DELL/HP labs)are happy with it ?


----------



## JF-AMD

I can't comment on partners, but there are several significant opportunities that have been sold and are being shipped before launch (it is all public knowledge) so I would think that would not have happened if they were not happy with the product.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


And you're forgetting that nearly no CPU is that fast, and even if they are there's still benefits to be had simply because the CPU isn't switching between tasks ultra fast, the difference is small then, yes, but its still there.


AMD:










Intel:










2-4 fps is within margin of error.


----------



## Heavy MG

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-980X-Extreme-Processor-LGA1366/dp/B003922WES]Amazon.com: Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Processor 3.33 GHz 12 MB Cache Socket LGA1366: Electronics[/URL]
Intel 980x-$1,000+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103913
AMD 1100T- $189
Tom's is full of crap,not to mention the Intel was overclocked.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15126239*
> Tom's is full of crap


Why is tom's full of crap?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

The point wasn't the performance difference...

Clock difference is about right anyways since the 980x clocks higher on the same cooling though, if you really want to go there... It's not like the clock difference would mean much, Phenom II doesn't do much with the cycles anyways.

Edit: btw the 1110t should be turboing to 3.7GHz, I hope that helps.


----------



## flashtest

Thanks for the quick answer,
btw yea Bella - that's what i got flamed for - trying to explain my point of view - that 4 stronger cores outperform 6 weaker ones.
And no i am in no means turning this into a intel vs amd battle - take an PII [email protected] 4Ghz and compare it to a P II [email protected] My bets are on the X4 for today's games.
Edit: for example http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/amdphenomiix6_042610231918/22640.png http://guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1075t-970be-645-processor-review/17

yea i know besides Tom's anandtech and guru3d are also 'crap' but i am going out of sources sorry








endedit;
(Guess if you have 6 Virtual Clients/DB who are not doing a hammer on of threads X6 is the winner)

Edit: And by fanboy definition any site who's benchmarks don't support someone's point of view are crap.
If you linked something else but tom's it still would be 'crap' as long as it proofs your and not his point of view


----------



## Damn_Smooth

When did this turn in to the "Phenom II Blog is Live" thread?


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15126699*
> When did this turn in to the "Phenom II Blog is Live" thread?


As soon as the mods looked away


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15126699*
> When did this turn in to the "Phenom II Blog is Live" thread?


Do we need an eight core cpu, turned into per core vs more core, which lead to having extra cores for system overhead only helps slower cores, which used Phenom II to demonstrate "slow cores".


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15124196*
> The processor names had been focused on Formula 1 race cities but we are running out of ones that our lawyers will let us use so we are moving to cities in general. The platform names were based on Formula 1 test tracks.
> Sorry, that is confidential, I could never discuss that.
> 
> Please go back and remove that quote. I did NOT say that.
> 
> Yeah, that is a really bad thing. Someone hits that thread, sees that and posts it somewhere else on the internet and I land in a lot of trouble. It needs to be corrected immediately.


I posted JF-AMD(Wannabe) and JF-AMD(1)

It's all good, Mods already took care of it. And I never IMPLIED you said that, I said it would be nice if you stepped up to set the record straight, so it could end all the bickering around here.

I don't understand why you can't recognize that a delay did happen?

You said it was coming in Q2, and that didn't happen.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> *Product Schedules* - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011. The server products ("Interlagos" and "Valencia") will first begin production in Q2 2011, and we expect to launch them in Q3 2011.


http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/11/09/server-highlights-from-financial-analyst-day/

On June 1st, AMD said it was coming in 60 - 90 days and that didn't happen either.










AMD gave certain timelines, they didn't meet them for what ever reason, I'm sorry, but I just don't get the denial behind it all.


----------



## Canis-X

What I don't get is that you post the same thing at least 2-3 times a week. Each time leads us to a flight or car analogy response from JF......you know he is not going to give you what you want, so why not just drop it and move on? Do you honestly think that maybe after 32.5 times of asking him that his answer is going to change? I truly don't understand why you bring this up time and time again knowing you are not going to get the response that you expect to hear. Do you just like rehashing the same thing over and over again?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15127136*
> What I don't get is that you post the same thing at least 2-3 times a week. Each time leads us to a flight or car analogy response from JF......you know he is not going to give you what you want, so why not just drop it and move on? Do you honestly think that maybe after 32.5 times of asking him that his answer is going to change? I truly don't understand why you bring this up time and time again knowing you are not going to get the response that you expect to hear. Do you just like rehashing the same thing over and over again?


Why should it lead to a fight when what I'm posting is the truth?

I find it frustrating that they can't acknowledge the obvious. It's not like I'm making stuff up, this is straight from AMD.

So you're ok with being told car and flight analogies? That have nothing to do with the question at hand, yet you have a problem with me for posting the truth. That makes perfect sense.

If they can't acknowledge something so blatantly obvious, then how can I trust them as a company? When things we are told are not exactly truthful. These frustrations stems back leading up to June, and all the rumors running wild that Bulldozer was delayed, yet AMD claimed that it would not be delayed and was still on track for a June release.

I care because I've been thinking of buying AMD stock for a while, since it's so cheap right now. But if they are not truthful about something so blatantly obvious as this, it makes me think twice if they are worth investing into. Just look at how many Insider Trading cases they've had, how many execs have left, etc. etc.

Like I said, I just don't get the denial behind it all, when it's so blatantly obvious.


----------



## Madmanden

I don't really get that either. Why not just admit "yeah, we thought it would be out 60-90 days from June 1st, obviously things changed due to circumstances I can't tell you about". The end.

Oh, and to whoever asked why I care since I have a 2500K - I care about hardware, no matter which company makes it. Only reason I have a 2500K right now is because I got tired of waiting since June. If I had had a clear indication that Bulldozer was a better choice, then I wouldn't mind waiting for it. Hell, I still might change to AMD if the performance makes it worth it. So stop assuming people who own Intel hates AMD and vice versa.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15126801*
> Do we need an eight core cpu, turned into per core vs more core, which lead to having extra cores for system overhead only helps slower cores, which used Phenom II to demonstrate "slow cores".


And when are we going to realize that Phenom II cores have absolutely nothing to do with Bulldozer cores? Well, about the same amount as Netburst cores have to do with SB cores anyway.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmanden;15127398*
> I don't really get that either. Why not just admit "yeah, we thought it would be out 60-90 days from June 1st, obviously things changed due to circumstances I can't tell you about".


I think that is exactly what JF have been saying with his plane analogy. Schedules change.

He also said that he can't/won't comment on launch dates.

This is a seriously dead horse issue.


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15113530*
> No need to be rude. You are a consumer so what's your point. Are you saying that just because you can link up something that says something different that you are correct.....as the cosumer, Joe-nobody, and you are questioning someone that works for AMD?? Chill out man.


I'm going to assume you don't know A. what a patent diagram is(or you didn't even look at it), or B. that you don't know who Chew* is. Also, C. That the AMD engineers confirmed to the aforementioned Chew* that BD was in fact a 4 core, 8 thread part.

I can't believe you're equating JF with an *engineer.* Just because "a guy works for AMD" doesn't mean squat. What if he's a janitor? What if he's a receptionist? What if he's.. in marketing, not engineering?


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15127264*
> Why should it lead to a fight when what I'm posting is the truth?
> 
> I find it frustrating that they can't acknowledge the obvious. It's not like I'm making stuff up, this is straight from AMD.
> 
> So you're ok with being told car and flight analogies? That have nothing to do with the question at hand, yet you have a problem with me for posting the truth. That makes perfect sense.
> 
> If they can't acknowledge something so blatantly obvious, then how can I trust them as a company? When things we are told are not exactly truthful. These frustrations stems back leading up to June, and all the rumors running wild that Bulldozer was delayed, yet AMD claimed that it would not be delayed and was still on track for a June release.
> 
> I care because I've been thinking of buying AMD stock for a while, since it's so cheap right now. But if they are not truthful about something so blatantly obvious as this, it makes me think twice if they are worth investing into. Just look at how many Insider Trading cases they've had, how many execs have left, etc. etc.
> 
> Like I said, I just don't get the denial behind it all, when it's so blatantly obvious.


Then take your complaints to the CEO of the company or call their PR department and complain. We're all honestly tired of reading the same crap from you and other people over and over and over again. Nobody here can help you with your problem, so handle it through the proper channels (AMD themselves) and quit wasting server space on here. Please.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15127264*
> Why should it lead to a fight when what I'm posting is the truth?


I never mentioned anything about a fight.







We know what you are posting, we understood it months and months ago, do you just like to see yourself post this same topic? What are you expecting to get out of it? What does it do for you? Honestly, I'm curious because you continue to harp about it.
Quote:


> I find it frustrating that they can't acknowledge the obvious. It's not like I'm making stuff up, this is straight from AMD.


We all understand this as well....still doesn't change anything....issues occurred....we will not be told why. Can't take no for an answer?








Quote:


> So you're ok with being told car and flight analogies? That have nothing to do with the question at hand, yet you have a problem with me for posting the truth. That makes perfect sense.


I'm not ok with them, but I, unlike you, understand that neither JF nor AMD is going to discuss the topic as you would like it to occur.....thus why people ask you to let this go. It has been brought up, JF/AMD, has responded that it will not be discussed in the manor you would like it to be......so I'm confused as to why you feel you need to continue badgering JF about while we listen to a broken record.
Quote:


> If they can't acknowledge something so blatantly obvious, then how can I trust them as a company? When things we are told are not exactly truthful. These frustrations stems back leading up to June, and all the rumors running wild that Bulldozer was delayed, yet AMD claimed that it would not be delayed and was still on track for a June release.


You don't have to trust them if you don't want to. Bottom line for them I'm sure is, business is business, they don't owe you anything personally. I/we share your frustration. The problem I have is having to rereading your same posts continuously knowing full well that you are not going to get the answer you want, but yet it would seem that you feel that retyping the same topic over and over again is somehow going to sway JF into pitty or maybe force him to get aggravated enough to slip up? At times it feels like you are a prosecutor or maybe a detective trying to force him to contradict himself or slip up. JF has done nothing wrong personally to you, he is only following company directives/policy. No-one should take anything he says personal.
Quote:


> I care because I've been thinking of buying AMD stock for a while, since it's so cheap right now. But if they are not truthful about something so blatantly obvious as this, it makes me think twice if they are worth investing into. Just look at how many Insider Trading cases they've had, how many execs have left, etc. etc.


Off topic and should not be brought up here. This is a personal financial decision that you have to make. All companies are after the bottom-line, $$, you need to do your own soul/pocketbook searching in this regard, but we should not have to watch your same discussion here with an underlying basis concerning that. Please start your own topic.








Quote:


> Like I said, I just don't get the denial behind it all, when it's so blatantly obvious.


Yep....it is obvious.....we all see it to.....so can we please move on to some other conspiracy?


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15128134*
> Yep....it is obvious.....we all see it to.....so can we please move on to some other conspiracy?


3rd shot from the Grassy Knoll?

This thread should be locked until launch announcement.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity;15127938*
> I'm going to assume you don't know A. what a patent diagram is(or you didn't even look at it), or B. that you don't know who Chew* is. Also, C. That the AMD engineers confirmed to the aforementioned Chew* that BD was in fact a 4 core, 8 thread part.
> 
> *I can't believe you're equating JF with an *engineer.** Just because "a guy works for AMD" doesn't mean squat. What if he's a janitor? What if he's a receptionist? What if he's.. in marketing, not engineering?


Nope....what I am equating is that you are a consumer just like the rest of us and there is no need to be rude to people....period...end of story. They will call it what they want to call it regardless of your posts here. This has also been beaten to death in this thread and it has not gotten the previous people that regurgitated the same stuff as you have anywhere.









A, I do know what a patent is.
B, I do know who chew* (Brian) is.

Cheers!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15122913*
> how can anyone say BD wasn't delayed when AMD said at computex it was scheduled for 60-90days from june 1st
> 
> they had a time frame, the missed it, thats a delay


AMD gave out a specific release date and launch date at Computex ?


----------



## Canis-X

And the saga continues.......^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bru_05;15128158*
> 3rd shot from the Grassy Knoll?
> 
> *This thread should be locked until launch announcement.*


I am beginning to agree with you.


----------



## breenemeister

However, it would be a shame to lock it since this thread really belongs to JF-AMD who is doing us a favor by giving us any info from the company *on his own*. I'm amazed he's still along for the ride. When I asked why there was no client products rep here, he referred to the fact that they wouldn't want to deal with all the crap they would get considering all the crap he gets concerning client side stuff when he doesn't even work there. I would hope that the admins would get JF's opinion before locking it.


----------



## etlecho

This link talks about 8170 and 6120 coming the first quarter 2012, though no source is quoted.

http://laptopdriversntips.com/toshiba-drivers/new-released-amd-fx-8170-and-fx-6120-processors.html

But the thing that seems a bit wierd is that it says that 8170 is getting 8mb level 2 and level 3 cache.

Why only boost second level cache? I can't figure out the reason...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

If this thread gets lock then what Thread am I going to Stalk all day refreshing the page at least once ever 5 mins?


----------



## Spacedinvader

every time i see it in recent posts i think "what eeijit is posting nonsense now?"

but still click


----------



## catharsis

This thread is worth a couple of good laughs, thats about it.


----------



## Spacedinvader

nah it's mostly pathetic "my dad is bigger than your dad"


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *breenemeister;15128617*
> However, it would be a shame to lock it since this thread really belongs to JF-AMD who is doing us a favor by giving us any info from the company *on his own*. I'm amazed he's still along for the ride. When I asked why there was no client products rep here, he referred to the fact that they wouldn't want to deal with all the crap they would get considering all the crap he gets concerning client side stuff when he doesn't even work there. I would hope that the admins would get JF's opinion before locking it.


Good point and I understand that, but it's getting a bit ridiculous. Everyone just posts the same nonsense every 10 mins and most posts aren't directed towards him. Even when he does answer a question, people get after him about the way he answered. There is an NDA and he can only answer them in a certain way and provide certain information. I can guarantee you he will not break the NDA. After all this is said and done I'll drive over to his office with some donuts, courtesy of OCN.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15128629*
> If this thread gets lock then what Thread am I going to Stalk all day refreshing the page at least once ever 5 mins?


You could still stalk in hopes of an announcement







Heck that's why I keep coming in, sadly I only see the nonsense piling up.


----------



## Spacedinvader

^ this! I'm also surprised JF hasn't QQragequitscrewyouguysimgoinghome!!


----------



## gplnpsb

There's now another source corroborating October 12th as the release date. The No10 issue of CanardPC magazine has a writeup on the FX-Series of processors (which is sadly none too positive), and in lieu of benchmarks it includes a link to http://cpc.cx/2, which resolves to http://www.canardpc.com/pdf/. The following message is there:
Quote:


> Cher lecteur,
> 
> Le NDA d'AMD sur les processeurs Bulldozer expirant le 12 Octobre, vous trouverez la table de lecture ainsi que nos commentaires à cette date.
> 
> Doc TB
> Canard PC Hardware


"Dear Reader,

AMD's NDA on the Bulldozer processors is expiring on October 12th, you will find the reading table and our comments on that date.

Doc TB
Canard PC Hardware"

Considering these guys seem to run the cpu-z validation database, they should be a bit more of a reliable source than donanimhaber. It is strange that Tom's Hardware stated they didn't have Zambezi yet though.


----------



## Spacedinvader

DH is a source?


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spacedinvader;15129057*
> DH is a source?


Walked into that one didn't I?









But seriously, its nice to see this same info coming from a decent source, rather than that non-source of a site and purported Microcenter employees.

It also aligns nicely with the granularity provided by Raymond Dumbeck in the tbreak interview.

They published this novel image of an FX chip, suggesting that they do have one in their possession.


----------



## Spacedinvader

yep







so NDA ends on the 12th and we're getting them ~15th?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15128621*
> This link talks about 8170 and 6120 coming the first quarter 2012, though no source is quoted.
> 
> http://laptopdriversntips.com/toshiba-drivers/new-released-amd-fx-8170-and-fx-6120-processors.html
> 
> But the thing that seems a bit wierd is that it says that 8170 is getting 8mb level 2 and level 3 cache.
> 
> Why only boost second level cache? I can't figure out the reason...


All the FX81XX models have 8Mb L2 and 8Mb L3
the FX61XX models have 6Mb L2 and 8Mb L3
the Fx41XX models have 4Mb L2 and 8Mb L3


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15129015*
> There's now another source corroborating October 12th as the release date. The No10 issue of CanardPC magazine has a writeup on the FX-Series of processors...


Thanks, will be interesting to read.


----------



## jetster735180

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Thanks, will be interesting to read.


In the comments section, the editor/writer commented that he had so much difficulty testing the FX CPU, result would change dramatically depending on configuration.

"Prenez SuperPi, vous aurez des perfs Ã©pouvantables, avec un FX-8150 en dessous d'un Core 2 E6700 de 2006. Prenez WPrime32, vous aurez un FX-8150 devant un Core i7 2600K. Et c'est pareil dans tous les types d'applications. Bref, c'est un cauchemar Ã* tester ce processeur."

Translation: He could make the FX-8150 run slower in SuperPi compared to a Core 2 E6700, or make WPrime32 run similar to a Core i7 2600K.

On a side note, I bough all my pieces for my new gaming machine: Asus Crosshair V, 16GB Corsair, Crucial M4 256GB, 2x Powercolor 6950. Hope bulldozer turn out to be a solid CPU.


----------



## Piegoodman

I have $5000 ready to buy 250 processors. Gonna snuggle with them in bed :3


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Piegoodman*


I have $5000 ready to buy 250 processors. Gonna snuggle with them in bed :3


LMAO!!!!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


And when are we going to realize that Phenom II cores have absolutely nothing to do with Bulldozer cores? Well, about the same amount as Netburst cores have to do with SB cores anyway.


Nobody was comparing phenom ii to bulldozer, you can stop now.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Nobody was comparing phenom ii to bulldozer, you can stop now.


Lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Do we need an eight core cpu, turned into per core vs more core, which lead to having extra cores for system overhead only helps slower cores, which used Phenom II to demonstrate "slow cores".


----------



## raisethe3

What?! Each CPU isn't going to cost $20 bucks, lol.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Piegoodman*


I have $5000 ready to buy 250 processors. Gonna snuggle with them in bed :3


----------



## StarDestroyer

AMD should say if games that can only use 2 pII cores (most all games) will get any benefit from the 2 BD cores working as 1 module, or will it be just 2 BD working independently

and I don't mean if you're doing hard background work


----------



## Frazz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Piegoodman*


I have $5000 ready to buy 250 processors. Gonna snuggle with them in bed :3


CPU slumber party??!!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jetster735180*


In the comments section, the editor/writer commented that he had so much difficulty testing the FX CPU, result would change dramatically depending on configuration.

"Prenez SuperPi, vous aurez des perfs Ã©pouvantables, avec un FX-8150 en dessous d'un Core 2 E6700 de 2006. Prenez WPrime32, vous aurez un FX-8150 devant un Core i7 2600K. Et c'est pareil dans tous les types d'applications. Bref, c'est un cauchemar Ã* tester ce processeur."

Translation: He could make the FX-8150 run slower in SuperPi compared to a Core 2 E6700, or make WPrime32 run similar to a Core i7 2600K.

On a side note, I bough all my pieces for my new gaming machine: Asus Crosshair V, 16GB Corsair, Crucial M4 256GB, 2x Powercolor 6950. Hope bulldozer turn out to be a solid CPU.



chew* allready hinted at setting in the bios that could dramaticly affect the performance .. but its fun to have separate confirmation


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Piegoodman*


I have $5000 ready to buy 250 processors. Gonna snuggle with them in bed :3


Gonna be a bad morning when you wake up with processor pins embedded in your skin.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


All the FX81XX models have 8Mb L2 and 8Mb L3
the FX61XX models have 6Mb L2 and 8Mb L3
the Fx41XX models have 4Mb L2 and 8Mb L3


Ah, my bad. Somehow I was thinking about 6mb cache.









I'll have to read up on the cahces.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


AMD: 
Intel:
2-4 fps is within margin of error.


Your point? I'm not talking brands, I'm talking core counts, that "2-4fps margin of error" may not actually be an error, like I said, the difference is small and mostly noticeable when the CPU is the bottleneck.

It's only going to get more noticeable as more applications and OS' use multiple threads more efficiently.
You've pretty much proven what I've said.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Gonna be a bad morning when you wake up with processor pins embedded in your skin.











sequel money ... can't go wrong with that


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Your point? I'm not talking brands, I'm talking core counts, that "2-4fps margin of error" may not actually be an error, like I said, the difference is small and mostly noticeable when the CPU is the bottleneck.

It's only going to get more noticeable as more applications and OS' use multiple threads more efficiently.
You've pretty much proven what I've said.


So 6 cores is faster for AMD, but on the Intel side it is actually slower?

It's within margin of error, my point was made. More slower cores need additional cores to handle background tasks while faster cores are capable of handing more than one task with minimal loss in performance.

I'd ask you "when" but you have no idea, so there would be no point. Future proofing with Thuban turned out to be a pretty solid choice in the wrong direction for $300 not 1 year ago.

Edit: I think I'm done for awhile, this thread keeps going in circles with people who regardless of the all around performance of any cpu their choice will always be AMD. No matter what is said they will always have an excuse all the way down to the point where they'll simply fully admit they'd never get another cpu brand.


----------



## MicroMiniMe

Today is October 1st and my money is in the bank ready and waiting. My game PC's X4 965 is going up for sale real soon. Tick tock, tick tock. Oh no, I've got wood!


----------



## Schmuckley

when's this thing gonna appear,man? when the next phantasm movie sequel is released?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15132403*
> Nobody was comparing phenom ii to bulldozer, you can stop now.


Ok Balla, I know you would never compare Bulldozer to Thuban.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15135252*
> So 6 cores is faster for AMD, but on the Intel side it is actually slower?
> 
> It's within margin of error, my point was made. More slower cores need additional cores to handle background tasks while faster cores are capable of handing more than one task with minimal loss in performance.
> 
> I'd ask you "when" but you have no idea, so there would be no point. Future proofing with Thuban turned out to be a pretty solid choice in the wrong direction for $300 not 1 year ago.
> 
> Edit: I think I'm done for awhile, this thread keeps going in circles with people who regardless of the all around performance of any cpu their choice will always be AMD. No matter what is said they will always have an excuse all the way down to the point where they'll simply fully admit they'd never get another cpu brand.


Oh wait, what??? So what AMD chip are you assuming will have "more slower cores" like Thuban here then?

Anyways, you can't take your ball and go home. Intel would be devastated to lose their self appointed recruiter.


----------



## Seronx

Grats for beating the older Magny Cours AMD

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


----------



## ACHILEE5

Is this ^^ legit


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;15136382*
> Is this ^^ legit


http://www.passmark.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Verify it make a thread

----
"AMD FX Bulldozer passmark score is it...."

Legit?
----

And, I am pretty sure the creator will swoop down from the skies and say either YES or NO

---

Passmark's CPU benchmark shows that Bulldozer's cores have no IPC loss from the new architecture

FX-8150 - 8681/8 = 1085.125
1100T - 6314/6 = 1052.33

Very linear increase


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;15136382*
> Is this ^^ legit


Until FX is officially launched then anything you see before hand cannot be considered legit


----------



## ACHILEE5

I so hope it does beat the "Troll chip" (2500k)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136392*
> http://www.passmark.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8
> 
> Verify it make a thread
> 
> ----
> "AMD FX Bulldozer passmark score is it...."
> 
> Legit?
> ----
> 
> And, I am pretty sure the creator will swoop down from the skies and say either YES or NO
> 
> ---
> 
> Passmark's CPU benchmark shows that Bulldozer's cores have no IPC loss from the new architecture
> 
> FX-8150 - 8681/8 = 1085.125
> 1100T - 6314/6 = 1052.33
> 
> Very linear increase


Isn't the FX8150 rumored to turbo core up to a higher clock speed compared to the 1100T?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15136515*
> Isn't the FX8150 rumored to turbo core to a higher clockspeed compared to the 1100T?


Turbocore only activates in "lightly threaded" tasks

It mainly there to increase the speed of things that would normally hog up CPU

Passmark is "heavily threaded"


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136523*
> Turbocore only activates in "lightly threaded" tasks
> 
> It mainly there to increase the speed of things that would normally hog up CPU
> 
> Passmark is "heavily threaded"


So it would be the FX8150's 8 cores @ 3.6GHz compared to 6 cores @ 3.3GHz for the 1100T in this bench?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15136571*
> So it would be the FX8150's 8 cores @ 3.6GHz compared to 6 cores @ 3.3GHz for the 1100T in this bench?


Yep



















fixed and updated the benchmarks 64bit vs 64bit(the previous one shown was 32bit i7 vs 64bit FX)


----------



## Derp

It looks like the FX6100 six core is on that list and it scores just a hair more than the 1100T six core phenom II while they are both at the same 3.3GHz clock speed.

Performance wise it seems the FX8150 is just going to be a Phenom II X8 with a hopefully higher overclock ceiling.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136591*
> Yep
> fixed and updated the benchmarks 64bit vs 64bit(the previous one shown was 32bit i7 vs 64bit FX)


Looks like they're comparing 16GB of Ram on the i7 and only 4GB of Ram for the BD


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;15136873*
> Looks like they're comparing 16GB of Ram on the i7 and only 4GB of Ram for the BD


Most of the i7 2600Ks are 8GB/16GB @ 1333MHz/1600MHz

This Bulldozer FX-8150 has really crappy Memory scores(It's awful compared to a 1100T)

I thought they fixed the Memory Controller they made it worse!!!

I call the card it is memory bottlenecked

(I am going to point out that is the highest scoring i7 2600K that isn't overclocked)

What is interesting to point out is
Floating Point Math and Finding Primes
but those FX-8150 scores doesn't translate into any other benchmark


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136591*
> Yep


I thought it had two modes:

Full load turbo (3.9 or 3.8GHz), and half load (4 cores) turbo 4.2GHz.

Integer core performance is terrible, I hope these aren't legit.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15136995*
> I thought it had two modes:
> 
> Full load turbo (3.9 or 3.8GHz), and half load (4 cores) turbo 4.2GHz.


Passmark is multithreaded and in this case turbo core will never activate
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15136995*
> Integer core performance is terrible, I hope these aren't legit.


It's legit but something isn't right


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Are you sure that's how the turbo works? So it's not like Intel when they say 3.4GHz base, they actually mean 3.5Ghz because it's never at the base clock rate?

My 1090T at 4.4GHz:










Per core integer score seems to come out slightly behind the overclocked 1090T 4.4Ghz, 223 (Phenom II) 219 for bulldozer, at what I'll assume is 3.8GHz.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15137073*
> Are you sure that's how the turbo works? So it's not like Intel when they say 3.4GHz base, they actually mean 3.5Ghz because it's never at the base clock rate?
> 
> My 1090T at 4.4GHz:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Per core integer score seems to come out slightly behind the overclocked 1090T 4.4Ghz, 223 (Phenom II) 219 for bulldozer, at what I'll assume is 3.8GHz.


Have you taken into consideration that Bulldozer might/is speculated to have a performance limiter until release? Either in the CPU microcode or CPU stepping. It changes everything, if it does. If it doesn't, things that use more cores will still benefit.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15137073*
> Are you sure that's how the turbo works? So it's not like Intel when they say 3.4GHz base, they actually mean 3.5Ghz because it's never at the base clock rate?


Passmark isn't lightly threaded it will in most cases at stock make the FX-8150 reach TDP
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15137073*
> Per core integer score seems to come out slightly behind the overclocked 1090T 4.4Ghz, 223 (Phenom II) 219 for bulldozer, at what I'll assume is 3.8GHz.


I wonder if Integer math is core or FPU, Integer Math reflects SSE so it must be floating point integer...


----------



## Electroneng

Some questions with passmark:

I7-2600K scores 1000 pts higher then the I7-2600?

Same processor just one has an unlocked multiplier for overclocking.

I7 - 980 AND i7 - 980x is a similar story.

Passmark is user submitted and we know all about the numerous fake benchmarks.

BD may be better or worse then listed but one cannot determine by passmark.

Again, wait for official benchmarks.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;15137148*
> Some questions with passmark:
> 
> I7-2600K scores 1000 pts higher then the I7-2600?
> 
> Same processor just one has an unlocked multiplier for overclocking.
> 
> I7 - 980 AND i7 - 980x is a similar story.
> 
> Passmark is user submitted and we know all about the numerous fake benchmarks.
> 
> BD may be better or worse then listed but one cannot determine by passmark.
> 
> Again, wait for official benchmarks.


The i7 2600K might actually be overclocked but the program might not notice it

Because if I check out the Overclocked CPU section the CPU I used as a baseline averages around the overclocked intels


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Here is my i5-2500k clock for clock (3.6Ghz):


----------



## Madclock

Seronx,

Why do you list your system specs with items that do not even exist?

If you list your actual specs (real), people might take you more seriously!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Wait for launch.








I would not read to much into any benchmark we see before AMD officially announces the Launch of FX. For all we know, when BD launches 990fx Mobo Mfg's might release a bios update specifically for the FX chips and/or AMD will release a driver for the Chips, to better utilize the new core architecture.








****JUST MY GUESS NOTHING OFFICAL!!!!****








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madclock;15137248*
> Seronx,
> 
> Why do you list your system specs with items that do not even exist?
> 
> If you list your actual specs (real), people might take you more seriously!


Because just like some of us waiting on BD, they have upcoming hardware listed as a place holder to let people know what they are waiting on and/or plan on upgrading to.


----------



## Benz

I loled at these posts/pages made...


----------



## flashtest

So based on the Passmark benchmarks - Bulldozer is a PII X8 with some boost in integer and half the floating performance ?
Let's see how it will handle Games and Rendering (checking the 3d result of those results compared to a PII X6 with the same video card (bios/driver even) Bulldozer is actually 5FPS (10%) slower.)
That would explain the price and silence from AMD.

Note before the flames - Read post again - specially "So based on the Passmark benchmarks" before explaining me that i hate amd.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15137416*
> So based on the Passmark benchmarks - Bulldozer is a PII X8 with some boost in integer and half the floating performance ?
> Let's see how it will handle Games and Rendering (checking the 3d result of those results compared to a PII X6 with the same video card (bios/driver even) Bulldozer is actually 5FPS (10%) slower.)
> That would explain the price and silence from AMD.
> 
> Note before the flames - Read post again - specially "So based on the Passmark benchmarks" before explaining me that i hate amd.


Flashtest? no love for AMD?














LOL j/k


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15137289*
> Because just like some of us waiting on BD, they have upcoming hardware listed as a place holder to let people know what they are waiting on and/or plan on upgrading to.


lol

but anyway....I would like to tell you guys to wait for AMD FX results from MSi, ASUS, ASRock before you go judging performance on a Gigabyte


----------



## tout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136348*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grats for beating the older Magny Cours AMD
> 
> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


and grats for beating the i5 2500k handily! I like how you guys pick and choose your references based on the point you are trying to make. If the FX 8150 matches or beats the i5 2500k then Bulldozer is a beast and AMD made a huge leap forward.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15136285*
> Ok Balla, I know you would never compare Bulldozer to Thuban.
> 
> Oh wait, what??? So what AMD chip are you assuming will have "more slower cores" like Thuban here then?
> 
> Anyways, you can't take your ball and go home. Intel would be devastated to lose their self appointed recruiter.


LOL.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136591*
> Yep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fixed and updated the benchmarks 64bit vs 64bit(the previous one shown was 32bit i7 vs 64bit FX)


Is the BD a ES chip or a final revision?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15137648*
> Is the BD a ES chip or a final revision?


It could be a B2.F or a B2.G but the BIOS CPU AGESIA isn't final as far as I know

I don't know

It is also comparing an i7 [email protected]~ vs a AMD FX-8150 at 3.4GHz
(Passmark needs better overclocking notice ability)


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15137678*
> It could be a B2.F or a B2.G but the BIOS CPU AGESIA isn't final as far as I know
> 
> I don't know
> 
> It is also comparing an i7 [email protected]~ vs a AMD FX-8150 at 3.4GHz


I believe *Chew said BIOS/UEFI makes a measurable difference in how BD performs.
Haha,I notice that now,it scores decent for being clocked much lower,it would be even better if it was just an ES because a retail chip could be better.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15137712*
> I believe *Chew said BIOS/UEFI makes a measurable difference in how BD performs.
> Haha,I notice that now,it scores decent for being clocked much lower,it would be even better if it was just an ES because a retail chip could be better.


and here is a clock to clock(took forever to sort through)










All @ 3.6GHz
All have 570GTXs and....AMD FX loses both in 2d graphics and 3d graphics









i7 950 has hyper-threading turned off

Also, all of them have 4GB and again AMD FX loses(in mem test)


----------



## tout

That would be impressive... wonder if it's real world indicative?


----------



## Don Karnage

I'm installing W7 on my 2500K build i picked up yesterday at MC. I'll download passmark and bench it to compare.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tout;15137826*
> That would be impressive... wonder if it's real world indicative?


It's decent for the mainstream area if your focus is highly threaded applications, though it still doesn't really dethrone the i7-2600k there.. except in price.

The problem is AMD has nothing for 2011, which means Intels pricing will run rampant again this gen since AMD can not mount any sort of actual assault on Intel's high end reign.

Consumers end up losing a bit here I think, if you aren't doing highly threaded workloads divide the score by 2 and you have a rough estimate in clock for clock core for core comparison and it doesn't look all that good at that level.

Of course AMD is going to give you these eight cores for a nice price of $250~.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15137769*
> and here is a clock to clock(took forever to sort through)


There is something wrong with the 2600k imo - even @ 3.4 it should score 1k points more According to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

If they pass i5, in rendering/gaming (3d studio specially) i have two less motherboards to sale and two bulldozers to preorder


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15138141*
> There is something wrong with the 2600k imo - even @ 3.4 it should score 1k points more According to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


It doesn't the multiplier breaks after a certain overclock so overclocks past a certain threshold show the same clock rate as stock.

The score is an average of this.

2600 @ stock = 2600K @ stock
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15138141*
> If they pass i5, in rendering/gaming (3d studio specially) i have two less motherboards to sale and two bulldozers to preorder


It does


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It does?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15138216*
> It does?


It does


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15137769*
> and here is a clock to clock(took forever to sort through)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All @ 3.6GHz
> All have 570GTXs and....AMD FX loses both in 2d graphics and 3d graphics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i7 950 has hyper-threading turned off
> 
> Also, all of them have 4GB and again AMD FX loses(in mem test)


Oh don't be ridiculous...

Ever heard of early engineering sample tests?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15138221*
> It does


What information was presented here that allowed you to come to that conclusion?


----------



## SSJVegeta

If the FX 8150 clocks to 5.2GHz+ (5.4~5.5 stable I hope...) with a nice air cooler / closed loop water cooler then benchies will look even better!

Need as much MHz as possible to even think about being on an even footing with a 2600K. I know most 2600Ks OC to 4.8GHz.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15138238*
> Oh don't be ridiculous...
> 
> Ever heard of early engineering sample tests?


This isn't an engineer sample nor is it "early"
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15138246*
> What information was presented here that allowed you to come to that conclusion?


3D Graphics test then extrapolating 1024x768x32 to 1920x1080x32


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15137056*
> Passmark is multithreaded and in this case turbo core will never activate
> 
> It's legit but something isn't right


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15138246*
> What information was presented here that allowed you to come to that conclusion?


seronx dont need no information to come to conclusions,he just types and then posts(then edits 98% of his posts)


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15138308*
> This isn't an engineer sample nor is it "early"
> 
> 3D Graphics test then extrapolating 1024x768x32 to 1920x1080x32


Right... And I can Tap dance.

If I'm not allowed to release the benchmarks given to me by my cousin who works for AMD, what makes you think these are real anyway? Give me a break...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15138314*
> seronx dont need no information to come to conclusions,he just types and then posts(then edits 98% of his posts)


/shrug

I don't see how you'd get better performance in gaming out of an eight core cpu that barely manages to beat the 4 core overall clock for clock and loses in integer and is only slightly faster in physics.

But hey, who knows...


----------



## amay200

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15136591*
> Yep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fixed and updated the benchmarks 64bit vs 64bit(the previous one shown was 32bit i7 vs 64bit FX)


*fake...*

we know that its not 8 x 2mb l2 cache
it is 8x 1mb cache

each bulldozer module has 2mb l2 cache which in lightly threaded apps will allow 1 integer core to use the full 2mb in multi threaded apps each integer core gets 1mb l2 cache

remember this LEGIT CPU-z screen?










clearly shows 2mb for 2 integer cores... if this were true it would have 4mb l2 cache


----------



## ALUCARDVPR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tankguys;15112120*
> Latest ETA update from my supplier is now early November. This uncertainty is why I'm not quite ready to take actual orders yet - I don't want to tie up people's money until I can be more definitive


Ahhhh! Come on AMD.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;15138555*
> *fake...*
> 
> we know that its not 8 x 2mb l2 cache
> it is 8x 1mb cache
> 
> each bulldozer module has 2mb l2 cache which in lightly threaded apps will allow 1 integer core to use the full 2mb in multi threaded apps each integer core gets 1mb l2 cache
> 
> remember this LEGIT CPU-z screen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clearly shows 2mb for 2 integer cores... if this were true it would have 4mb l2 cache


Maybe the benchmark couldn't accurately read all the specs of the processor correctly? Like i posted in the other thread. It beats a 2500K in the CPU tests and loses in the Gaming tests. Generic benchmark or not.. Thats pretty damn good for 240


----------



## pietro sk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15137056*
> 
> It's legit but something isn't right


What EXACTLY is "legit" ?
I tell ya, nothing. It resembles all those chinese forum fakes.

I see SSD and bigger RAM in intel system, and HDD and less RAm on AMD pc. I can´t say this is fair/comparable.


----------



## jetster735180

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;15138555*
> *fake...*
> 
> we know that its not 8 x 2mb l2 cache
> it is 8x 1mb cache
> 
> each bulldozer module has 2mb l2 cache which in lightly threaded apps will allow 1 integer core to use the full 2mb in multi threaded apps each integer core gets 1mb l2 cache
> 
> remember this LEGIT CPU-z screen?
> 
> clearly shows 2mb for 2 integer cores... if this were true it would have 4mb l2 cache


I believe sir that you are incorrect. Thou I do believe it is fake, the reasoning behind your conclusion is partially incorrect.

Each module does have shared 2MB between both Int cores, each core has its own L1 cache, and there is 4 modules in a FX-8150. The correct L2 cache size would be 4 x 2 MB

I think the benchmark tool used see's 2MB per core, and not per module. It probably need a update for a Bulldozer CPU.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.passmark.com/products/pt_history.htm

here is the change log....and nope it doesn't show "AMD FX" supported but probably had the names included in the July-September builds


----------



## amay200

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetster735180;15138891*
> I believe sir that you are incorrect. Thou I do believe it is fake, the reasoning behind your conclusion is partially incorrect.
> 
> Each module does have shared 2MB between both Int cores, each core has its own L1 cache, and there is 4 modules in a FX-8150. The correct L2 cache size would be 4 x 2 MB
> 
> I think the benchmark tool used see's 2MB per core, and not per module. It probably need a update for a Bulldozer CPU.


it reads all the other cache sizes correctly though... yes i understand it could come down to the program mis-reading the L2, but hasn't JF-AMD stated on multiple occasions that programs won't see modules & only cores??


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetster735180;15138891*
> I believe sir that you are incorrect. Thou I do believe it is fake, the reasoning behind your conclusion is partially incorrect.
> 
> Each module does have shared 2MB between both Int cores, each core has its own L1 cache, and there is 4 modules in a FX-8150. The correct L2 cache size would be 4 x 2 MB
> 
> I think the benchmark tool used see's 2MB per core, and not per module. It probably need a update for a Bulldozer CPU.


You hit the spot








- From the leaked DELL Bugreport in bugzilla:
processor : 15
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 21
model : 1
model name : AMD Eng Sample, ZS262545T8G45_32/26/20_2/16
stepping : 1
cpu MHz : 2600.224
cache size : 2048 KB
physical id : 1
siblings : 8
core id : 3
cpu cores : 4 <<<< Not Correct >>>>
apicid : 39
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 13
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov
Notice that it too thinks that the cache is 2mb.


----------



## black96ws6

Once again I find myself going back and forth on this, first there was the Google cache hit review which said something similar to this, now there's this upcoming French magazine article, which, when translated, reads as such (slightly paraphrased by me):

_"On the high-end, the FX processors based on the Bulldozer architecture were also a disappointment. While they are still generally more efficient than their predecessors and allow AMD to approach much of the performance of last generation Core i5 and i7 processors, unfortunately their performance remains below current expectations.

As we announced in a previous issue, they can sometimes compete with Sandy Bridge in the area of rough calculations, however the results in video games are very far behind. Only overclockers (and fanboys) will find them a great interest given their predisposition in this area.

The AMD FX-8120 model of the new Bulldozer series is the one that offers the best price / performance ratio. It is able to compete with the i5-2500K in most computing applications, even if it grossly lags behind in video games.

Nonetheless, it has substantial overclocking capabilities available at no additional cost. Compared with the old Phenom X4 980, this is a very good alternative.

Offered at a price slightly lower than the Core i7-2600K, the FX-8150 is currently the most powerful model of the new Bulldozer architecture from AMD. Unfortunately, at best, it matches the 2600k in some media processing applications while always falling behind in games. "_


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15140683*
> Once again I find myself going back and forth on this, first there was the Google cache hit review which said something similar to this, now there's this upcoming French magazine article, which, when translated, reads as such (slightly paraphrased by me):
> 
> _"On the high-end, the FX processors based on the Bulldozer architecture were also a disappointment. While they are still generally more efficient than their predecessors and allow AMD to approach much of the performance of last generation Core i5 and i7 processors, unfortunately their performance remains below current expectations.
> 
> As we announced in a previous issue, they can sometimes compete with Sandy Bridge in the area of rough calculations, however the results in video games are very far behind. Only overclockers (and fanboys) will find them a great interest given their predisposition in this area.
> 
> The AMD FX-8120 model of the new Bulldozer series is the one that offers the best price / performance ratio. It is able to compete with the i5-2500K in most computing applications, even if it grossly lags behind in video games.
> 
> Nonetheless, it has substantial overclocking capabilities available at no additional cost. Compared with the old Phenom X4 980, this is a very good alternative.
> 
> Offered at a price slightly lower than the Core i7-2600K, the FX-8150 is currently the most powerful model of the new Bulldozer architecture from AMD. Unfortunately, at best, it matches the 2600k in some media processing applications while always falling behind in games. "_


They prolly have an ES, and are doing the same crap that has been done before. IF they were legit, and they had a b2x stepping BD then it might hold some water, but with no numbers to back up anything, and as it has been said before, it's all rumor.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15140719*
> They prolly have an ES, and are doing the same crap that has been done before. IF they were legit, and they had a b2x stepping BD then it might hold some water, but with no numbers to back up anything, and as it has been said before, it's all rumor.


that is xsecret at XS's who wrote that article and he is also the guy who manages the cpuz database Samuel D. he also is known as Doc TB.
he said at XS's that he has the retail stepping chip,but who knows


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15140719*
> They prolly have an ES, and are doing the same crap that has been done before. IF they were legit, and they had a b2x stepping BD then it might hold some water, but with no numbers to back up anything, and as it has been said before, it's all rumor.


You sure make a lot of assumptions or would they be excuses?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Turbocore only activates in "lightly threaded" tasks


For Bulldozer? I don't think so. I have videos of that show Turbo CORE working on 16 cores - all of them active.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


This Bulldozer FX-8150 has really crappy Memory scores(It's awful compared to a 1100T)

I thought they fixed the Memory Controller they made it worse!!!


Or the benchmark is a.) fake or b.) not representative.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Passmark is multithreaded and in this case turbo core will never activate


See above.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Have you taken into consideration that Bulldozer might/is speculated to have a performance limiter until release? Either in the CPU microcode or CPU stepping. It changes everything, if it does. If it doesn't, things that use more cores will still benefit.


It doesn't. It is more likely that the benchmark is not real.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Right... And I can Tap dance.

If I'm not allowed to release the benchmarks given to me by my cousin who works for AMD, what makes you think these are real anyway? Give me a break...


If you PM me your cousin's name then I can verify whether he actually works at AMD.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *amay200*


it reads all the other cache sizes correctly though... yes i understand it could come down to the program mis-reading the L2, but hasn't JF-AMD stated on multiple occasions that programs won't see modules & only cores??


Programs won't read modules.


----------



## Roedi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz* 
Right... And I can Tap dance.

If I'm not allowed to release the benchmarks given to me by my cousin who works for AMD, what makes you think these are real anyway? Give me a break...


If you PM me your cousin's name then I can verify whether he actually works at AMD.


 Don't do that


----------



## Tweeky

JF-AMD
Put me down so I will be the 1st one on the list to get a new bulldozer 
Thanks


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


You sure make a lot of assumptions or would they be excuses?


Without numbers, or rather, _solid_ proof, then what is it? Also, why would I make excuses for a product that I'm not trying to sell? Why not take the time to browse the whole thread and see for yourself that many fake BD benches have been released, and this one is no different.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Because then we wouldnt have anything to talk about for 2 weeks


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Show it doing passmark


What, an HPC application isn't stressing it enough? We have partners running integer-based HPC workloads that are seeing this.


----------



## flashtest

Based on what i understand turbo starts when the cpu has free temp headroom so if tdp is bellow max it will kick in be it with passmark running or whatever else sure if you use a cpuburn test maybe but the point of this software is to be as unoptimized and uneconomic as possible.


----------



## mark4d

is this a real review or not it seems like it was fair http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bull...7-2600k-70406/


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark4d*


is this a real review or not it seems like it was fair http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bull...7-2600k-70406/


Pretty sure Lenzfire is an AMD fan's website.

I would wait for more reputable sources who actually have their own numbers and aren't going off what may or may not be fake or representable slides.

That read like an AMD speculation thread.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark4d;15143951*
> is this a real review or not it seems like it was fair http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-fx-processors-benchmark-results-vs-core-i7-2600k-70406/


uh... what? that 2nd slide alone... Isn't Llano (A-series) capable of overclocking? And what do screen res, and Eyefinity have to do with the CPU?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call BS.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15135252*
> So 6 cores is faster for AMD, but on the Intel side it is actually slower?
> 
> It's within margin of error, my point was made. More slower cores need additional cores to handle background tasks while faster cores are capable of handing more than one task with minimal loss in performance.
> 
> I'd ask you "when" but you have no idea, so there would be no point. Future proofing with Thuban turned out to be a pretty solid choice in the wrong direction for $300 not 1 year ago.
> 
> Edit: I think I'm done for awhile, this thread keeps going in circles with people who regardless of the all around performance of any cpu their choice will always be AMD. No matter what is said they will always have an excuse all the way down to the point where they'll simply fully admit they'd never get another cpu brand.


Like I said, it changes depending on the benchmark, too. And TH is hardly a reliable source as has been pointed out.

And no, no-one knows when, but applications tend to become more bloated as we have the speed to just deal with it instead of having to fix it these days.

It depends on the architecture too, from what I've seen Intels architecture is usually more cores bolted together but nearly completely separately, but AMDs architectures tend to benefit from having cores working on similar loads due to them already sharing more things internally. < Guess as to why, but yeah.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15136285*
> Oh wait, what??? So what AMD chip are you assuming will have "more slower cores" like Thuban here then?
> 
> Anyways, you can't take your ball and go home. Intel would be devastated to lose their self appointed recruiter.


The brand is irrelevant in his comparison, he compared to 6 cores, one with fast cores and one with slow cores to see whether having more cores directly benefits the performance of the others due to the OS having a core or 2 for resources.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15138517*
> /shrug
> 
> I don't see how you'd get better performance in gaming out of an eight core cpu that barely manages to beat the 4 core overall clock for clock and loses in integer and is only slightly faster in physics.
> 
> But hey, who knows...


The almost guaranteed higher overclock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;15138555*
> *fake...*
> 
> we know that its not 8 x 2mb l2 cache
> it is 8x 1mb cache
> 
> each bulldozer module has 2mb l2 cache which in lightly threaded apps will allow 1 integer core to use the full 2mb in multi threaded apps each integer core gets 1mb l2 cache
> 
> remember this LEGIT CPU-z screen?
> 
> clearly shows 2mb for 2 integer cores... if this were true it would have 4mb l2 cache


It's reading the same thing as CPUz, which says 2048MB L2 cache...CPUz is saying the same thing, see?

It's not going "Per core!" because the cache is shared, so it's saying it's 2MB L2 cache in each bank of L2 cache, which is true. No different from saying I've got 2x2048MB of RAM or 4096MB of RAM, same thing.

You don't say 1MB L3 cache because there's 8 cores using it.

Not to mention, it's clearly not reading the CPU correctly yet, look at the lack of a multiplier.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amay200;15139230*
> it reads all the other cache sizes correctly though... yes i understand it could come down to the program mis-reading the L2, but hasn't JF-AMD stated on multiple occasions that programs won't see modules & only cores??


It reads the L2 cache per bank, which is shared.

With RAM you don't say "I have 16x 128MB chips", you say 2048MB or whatever.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15138507*
> Right... And I can Tap dance.
> 
> If I'm not allowed to release the benchmarks given to me by my cousin who works for AMD, what makes you think these are real anyway? Give me a break...


lol .. you didnt like it when i called you on it .. yet you somehow manage to bring it back again ...

anyway ... go ahead an pm jf-amd your cousins name so he can id him and tell us if its real

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15141043*
> If you PM me your cousin's name then I can verify whether he actually works at AMD.
> .


this i wanna see too


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15141043*
> If you PM me your cousin's name then I can verify whether he actually works at AMD.


Why? So you can rat him out? I don't think so.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15145672*
> Why? So you can rat him out? I don't think so.


why would you even bring back the cousin thing only to not prove it to us


----------



## Disturbed117

This thread gets better and better, I cant wait to see the end product.


----------



## Asus11

I heard AMD are going to release bulldozer feb 14th?can JF confirm this


----------



## oicw

I heard AMD's Bulldozer will cure cancer by March 18th.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15145731*
> why would you even bring back the cousin thing only to not prove it to us


AMD tests their chips on cat and dog brains


----------



## flashtest

Shhh, hidden info from a friend of mine:
Bulldozer can beat Chuck Norris's Veloergometer record in Tour de France.


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15145731*
> why would you even bring back the cousin thing only to not prove it to us


Take a hike will you...


----------



## Bagpuss

Damn...this isnt looking very good for what i need..









I'm heavily into emulation, and the 2500/2600k chips just destroy the current Phenom II's IPC rates, and this doesnt look like things are going to be much better with Bulldozer.

At the minute a 2500k overclocked to 4.5Ghz or more has equivalent performance to my Phenom II (@3.8Ghz) running @ more than 6Ghz!!!

I was hoping the new BD architecture would close this gap considerably, but it looks like thats not the case.









Bear in mind that most emulators dont really use more than 2 cores to any great degree, which is why a high IPC is far more important than the number of cores.

8 cores with a relatively low IPC maybe fine for the likes of Cinebench and all the other heavily threaded apps out there, but for my specific emualtion needs, they are a waste of time...

Oh well, looks like the time for a change back to Intel has come, i held out most of this year, hoping BD would be upto the task, but i think its becoming clearer by the week, that BD wont suit me...


----------



## Benz

How can you say that if there are no benchmarks yet? Wait and see, if the Bulldozer performs far worse than Sandy Bridge then fine go Intel, if the Bulldozer beats the crap out of Sandy Bridge go AMD I'll do the same. But if you buy Sandy Bridge now and the Bulldozer do kick Intel's ass, you'll only regret it.


----------



## Bagpuss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15146413*
> How can you say that if there are no benchmarks yet? Wait and see, if the Bulldozer performs far worse than Sandy Bridge then fine go Intel, if the Bulldozer beats the crap out of Sandy Bridge go AMD I'll do the same. But if you buy Sandy Bridge now and the Bulldozer do kick Intel's ass, you'll only regret it.


Im sure if you need heavily threaded performance BD will be a fine CPU, but like i said i need very high IPC rates on individual cores, and everything i've seen on BD says this hasnt been a very high priority for the BD design.

AMD seems to be going down the road of throwing more cores at the problem to compensate for low IPC rates to compete with Intel.

Thats great for apps and modern gaming, but for my emulation requirements, not so good.

I will wait for final retail benchmarks, im just not holding my breath, expecting BD to excel in the areas i need it to.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bagpuss;15146497*
> Im sure if you need heavily threaded performance BD will be a fine CPU, but like i said i need very high IPC rates on individual cores, and everything i've seen on BD says this hasnt been a very high priority for the BD design.
> 
> AMD seems to be going down the road of throwing more cores at the problem to compensate for low IPC rates to compete with Intel.
> 
> Thats great for apps and modern gaming, but for my emulation requirements, not so good.
> 
> I will wait for final retail benchmarks, im just not holding my breath, expecting BD to excel in the areas i need it to.


It has been beaten to death already that IPC is very subjective and a large variable with CPUs.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It's not really good for modern gaming either, unless you play Codemasters games exclusively, even then less of the same cores means more fps in titles like DiRT3.

Not much longer though hopefully, there is no official release date however.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15146854*
> It has been beaten to death already that IPC is very subjective and a large variable with CPUs.


So has the fact that in everything core intensive AMD is way behind Intel, but we're still here talking about it as if it wasn't common knowledge.


----------



## Roedi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11;15145748*
> I heard AMD are going to release bulldozer feb 14th?can JF confirm this


I heard from a dude that works for a dutch review site that review samples are being sent out, NDA will be lifted at 12th october..


----------



## Schmuckley

pffft..no good until it's in mah greasy palm..


----------



## AK-47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15145672*
> Why? So you can rat him out? I don't think so.


he doesn't exist....


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15145672*
> Why? So you can rat him out? I don't think so.


No, so he can verify to us that you aren't full of it.

Seriously, how much trouble can someone get in for telling someone something when that person hasn't said anything other than it will be "worth the wait".
There is no proof anywhere that your cousin told you anything more than that, so your cousin is completely safe.

Unless you are lying, there is absolutely no reason not to do this.


----------



## willistech

I hate that I come here to get news and I only see multiple arguments going on.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willistech;15148543*
> I hate that I come here to get news and I only see multiple arguments going on.


Since there is little official news, the only thing left here seems to be bickering... I'm starting to think it is time to put this thread on timeout







lock it for 24-48h and give people some time to cool down.


----------



## flashtest

Sadly no official news are supplied - and rumormills lack new fake/not fake benchmarks so we go into pointless discussions.

On a side-note -now i understand the horrible pi results, blame the damn long x87 pipeline on Bulldozer (+66% from PII). Well who cares about those anyway (didn't even Nvidia made SSE a default for PhysX?)


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Take a hike will you...


nope ... you mentioned it ... now its fair game


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15148272*
> No, so he can verify to us that you aren't full of it.
> 
> *Seriously, how much trouble can someone get in for telling someone something when that person hasn't said anything other than it will be "worth the wait".*
> There is no proof anywhere that your cousin told you anything more than that, so your cousin is completely safe.
> 
> Unless you are lying, there is absolutely no reason not to do this.


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


----------



## psychok9

Benz the sky seem clear and bright? Or you expect "some" rain?

Thank you


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


I understand that, but nobody has any proof that you have those. You are holding up an NDA that you haven't signed, so AMD has no reason to punish your cousin.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


Send me them. Ill post them for you


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


Well if you have seen them answer me this, is it okay if i buy the 2600k next week or should i wait


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *psychok9*


Benz the sky seem clear and bright? Or you expect "some" rain?

Thank you










well i can tell you it should be bright and sunny,based on what i have been told
from my contacts.....
my brother works at AMD and he said all is superb with BD
my sister works for Global foundries and she said 32nm is 100% perfect
my grandpa works for the Guiness Book of world records and he said BD is the fastest CPU in the world.
my uncle works for Cray and he said Interlagos is the most powerful CPU ever made.
my other sister works for intel and she said everyone is very scared right now at intel and are struggling 
to come up with a solution to BD
my mom works for Cyberpower PC's and they are planning on dropping all intel based machines in favor 
of AMD's BD for the next 5 years

but this is all just a bunch of BS on my part,nothing i just said is true


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


if you cant share that with us .. why do you even mention it ???


----------



## salokin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Well if you have seen them answer me this, is it okay if i buy the 2600k next week or should i wait










Yes, please answer this.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I'd just wait... You've waited this long, whats another delay or two?

I kid, but seriously it should be out soon, best to wait it out now.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bagpuss*


Damn...this isnt looking very good for what i need..









*I'm heavily into emulation*, and the 2500/2600k chips just destroy the current Phenom II's IPC rates, and this doesnt look like things are going to be much better with Bulldozer.

At the minute a 2500k overclocked to 4.5Ghz or more has equivalent performance to my Phenom II (@3.8Ghz) running @ more than 6Ghz!!!


Same here, especially PCSX2 and Dolphin, those are really CPU hungry!

I don't think Bulldozer will fair well there if IPC isn't that strong.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Based on what i understand turbo starts when the cpu has free temp headroom so if tdp is bellow max it will kick in be it with passmark running or whatever else sure if you use a cpuburn test maybe but the point of this software is to be as unoptimized and uneconomic as possible.


No, Turbo CORE is not based on temps, it is based on power headroom.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Same here, especially PCSX2 and Dolphin, those are really CPU hungry!

I don't think Bulldozer will fair well there if IPC isn't that strong.


PCSX2 is a breeze, Dolphin with SSE4.1 and the ability to take advantage of four cores provides me with a maxed out CPU @ 5GHz netting an avg of 30 fps in Zelda: TP.









I have no idea if it can take advantage of a octocore, but if it can bulldozer should do well.

It's funny I run my Wii games on my PC though, even though my Wii is sitting in the living room hooked up to a large screen 1080p tv. The ability to add AA/AF and upscale the output to 1080p is hard to pass up.


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


I hate that I come here to get news and I only see multiple arguments going on.


welcome to the internet. enjoy your stay.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


PCSX2 is a breeze, Dolphin with SSE4.1 and the ability to take advantage of four cores provides me with a maxed out CPU @ 5GHz netting an avg of 30 fps in Zelda: TP.










Is that the Wii ver. of Zelda TP or GC ver.? GC ver. runs faster


----------



## Kuchiyose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


I have a "cousin" who works for "AMD" that sent me official "benchmarks" too. Sorry I can't divulge any information at all about it though, I just wanted to put that out there for no apparent reasons.


----------



## willistech

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...F-GfliDyehIGZl


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


My father's nephew's cousin's former roommate said he didn't.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


My father's nephew's cousin's former roommate said he didn't.


Space balls reference!









So...is the 12th looking very promising for Bulldozer?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


My father's nephew's cousin's former roommate said he didn't.


What's going on? Where the hell are we? Paris?


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


So...is the 12th looking very promising for Bulldozer?


Your guess is as good as any. If it's an honest leak, there's no way to confirm it except by waiting. Unless you're one of the lucky few under an NDA.


----------



## Darkpriest667

ok JF here is a good question that I dont remember being asked.

Is there a timeframe when the NDA will be lifted. And a quarter doesnt count. October November December 12th of never?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Same here, especially PCSX2 and Dolphin, those are really CPU hungry!

I don't think Bulldozer will fair well there if IPC isn't that strong.


Huh, I have no problem crunching those apps with my phenom rig at stock 2.8ghz clock. consistent 30fps or better.


----------



## pcclock

No that 12th thing is just another made up rumor. "Hearsay", than when someone posts it and other people read it, after a while people start believing it. Or people's "cousin" told them or whatever. Cmon.

There hasn't been a single fact confirming it. All I read was, the first 12th post, than people asking about it and all of a sudden "that became the next date".

Thats just how it goes, people say something, repeat it a couple of times and all of a sudden it is "truth" or "fact".

I actually wonder what the next made up date is gonna be? 23th, 31th of October? Or did I just start a rumor now?


----------



## StarDestroyer

AMD can't give a date because they'll probably miss it, so again its just nebulous Q4, just like nebulous missed Q3


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15155937*
> No that 12th thing is just another made up rumor. "Hearsay", than when someone posts it and other people read it, after a while people start believing it. Or people's "cousin" told them or whatever. Cmon.
> 
> There hasn't been a single fact confirming it. All I read was, the first 12th post, than people asking about it and all of a sudden "that became the next date".
> 
> Thats just how it goes, people say something, repeat it a couple of times and all of a sudden it is "truth" or "fact".
> 
> I actually wonder what the next made up date is gonna be? 23th, 31th of October? Or did I just start a rumor now?


If you want to know where the October 12th date came from, it's the date the *AMD FX Giveaway 2* ends.
Quote:


> 4. Entry Period: The Contest begins September 7, 2011 at 12:01am Eastern Time ("EDT") and ends October 12, 2011 at 11:59 pm EDT (the "Entry Period"). Entries that are submitted before or after the Entry Period will be disqualified. Sponsor's computer will be the official timekeeping device for the Contest.


http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/processors/Pages/fx-rules.aspx


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15155754*
> ok JF here is a good question that I dont remember being asked.
> 
> Is there a timeframe when the NDA will be lifted. And a quarter doesnt count. October November December 12th of never?


responding to this in any other matter then a quarterly basis would in fact break the nda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15156135*
> AMD can't give a date because they'll probably miss it, so again its just nebulous Q4, just like nebulous missed Q3


you've got a I5 2500K ordered .. so why are you still trolling this thread???


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15151956*
> No, Turbo CORE is not based on temps, it is based on power headroom.


Thanks for the correction, my bad on typing temp instead of tdp in the first sentence .

Another question if i may, what happens to the motherboards that are already in storage/resellers that have an old bios - So for say if a customer goes to the shop and buys a (insert favorite brand here) board and a Bulldozer,
if that Systemboard was in the reseller's storage for one month, it comes with an older bios - will it be able to boot with a Bulldozer so we actually can flash it to a BIOS supporting it.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15156952*
> Thanks for the correction, my bad on typing temp instead of tdp in the first sentence .
> 
> Another question if i may, what happens to the motherboards that are already in storage/resellers that have an old bios - So for say if a customer goes to the shop and buys a (insert favorite brand here) board and a Bulldozer,
> if that Systemboard was in the reseller's storage for one month, it comes with an older bios - will it be able to boot with a Bulldozer so we actually can flash it to a BIOS supporting it.


motherboards do work with bulldozer today ... all the leaks we have are real in the sense that it works with bulldozer .. but they dont show true retail performance due to untweaked bios


----------



## KyadCK

I think he is asking if you get an old board (890FX i guess, since 9-series had better have bulldozer support...) that is capable of using bulldozer with the updated bios, but it does not have the updated bios, will you be able to boot with bulldozer in order to flash to the new bios, or will you be screwed and have to get a new board or find a cpu that will boot.

With my question being, if you know you are going to buy bulldozer, why are you buying an 8-series chipset? You would be better off just buying a 9-series and knowing you can run it then even trying to take the risk, let alone the performance hit.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK;15157583*
> I think he is asking if you get an old board (890FX i guess, since 9-series had better have bulldozer support...) that is capable of using bulldozer with the updated bios, but it does not have the updated bios, will you be able to boot with bulldozer in order to flash to the new bios, or will you be screwed and have to get a new board or find a cpu that will boot.
> 
> With my question being, if you know you are going to buy bulldozer, why are you buying an 8-series chipset? You would be better off just buying a 9-series and knowing you can run it then even trying to take the risk, let alone the performance hit.


Yes, exactly - you are right in both things - i had the 880g/890fx in mind
and you are right about the 9xx- from a customer point of view purchasing 9xx is the better option with a new cpu (as differences in price are minimal and 990 will pay out that in power saving in a few months)

My question was based on a Microcenter 'leak'
...searching link...
this article http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-CPUs-dated-October-12th-Shhh - was wondering if it's true.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I really hope the NDA is lifted on the 12th.








My motherboard and RAM are just sitting here collecting dust.

http://pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-CPUs-dated-October-12th-Shhh
Not sure if posted...


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15154256*
> Is that the Wii ver. of Zelda TP or GC ver.? GC ver. runs faster


Wii








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15156168*
> you've got a I5 2500K ordered .. so why are you still trolling this thread???


Funny how quickly they turn on you with bitterness isn't it?


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15156168*
> responding to this in any other matter then a quarterly basis would in fact break the nda
> 
> you've got a I5 2500K ordered .. so why are you still trolling this thread???


actually I could always keep my current MB and jam a BD in there if its any good at games, but I don't 2 modern rigs


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15151709*
> I'd just wait... You've waited this long, whats another delay or two?
> 
> I kid, but seriously it should be out soon, best to wait it out now.


The problem is that my work is suffering under it, I cant wait that long anymore, I need a strong cpu for rendering. Now im sitting half the time waiting for it to finish


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15155754*
> ok JF here is a good question that I dont remember being asked.
> 
> Is there a timeframe when the NDA will be lifted. And a quarter doesnt count. October November December 12th of never?


The embargo is lifted on launch date. But I am not saying that any date that people have thrown out is correct, only the mechanics of the embargo.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15156952*
> Thanks for the correction, my bad on typing temp instead of tdp in the first sentence .
> 
> Another question if i may, what happens to the motherboards that are already in storage/resellers that have an old bios - So for say if a customer goes to the shop and buys a (insert favorite brand here) board and a Bulldozer,
> if that Systemboard was in the reseller's storage for one month, it comes with an older bios - will it be able to boot with a Bulldozer so we actually can flash it to a BIOS supporting it.


Sorry, can't comment on that because we only support BD in AM3+. If you put a BD in an AM3+ it will boot with no issue.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15157843*
> I really hope the NDA is lifted on the 12th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My motherboard and RAM are just sitting here collecting dust.
> 
> http://pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-CPUs-dated-October-12th-Shhh
> Not sure if posted...


I think the contest ends on the 12th, but it could be extended like last time

also, why do people think NDA would lift on 12th, or BD start selling then, wheres that rumor from


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15158872*
> I think the contest ends on the 12th, but it could be extended like last time
> 
> also, why do people think NDA would lift on 12th, or BD start selling then, wheres that rumor from


Begins with an 'O' and ends in 'hole'.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15157843*
> http://pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-CPUs-dated-October-12th-Shhh
> Not sure if posted...


LOL its in the post right above yours


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15158933*
> LOL its in the post right above yours


Damn it!








Meh, I'm tired.


----------



## blabla125

whats the latest news? been busy..


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15158962*
> Damn it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, I'm tired.


LOL its all good







Actually your post is helpful since it is at the top of the page







Most people might not have noticed it on the previous page









Good find and thank you for sharing


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15157202*
> motherboards do work with bulldozer today ... all the leaks we have are real in the sense that it works with bulldozer .. but they dont show true retail performance due to untweaked bios


If anyone currently has a 990FX board, it would be very prudent to update to the latest BIOS _before_ pulling out their current Phenom II.


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15158872*
> I think the contest ends on the 12th, but it could be extended like last time
> 
> also, why do people think NDA would lift on 12th, or BD start selling then, wheres that rumor from


From what I have read this is taking from a mixture of sources and perhaps some of these sources used conjecture to deduce the magical date (kind of like how they used to do the 'world will end on this date')

- youtube vid
- some vendors
- amd contest
- websites spouting dates as if they are concrete

= 12th of Oct.

I personally just want to see some benchmarks (gaming mainly) - have had an itch for awhile now ...


----------



## Particle

September 19: Taken from a promotional video with a partial frame of an old Phenom slide from years ago. People mistook it for a release date.

October 12: Composite of actual sources. There was a rumor that FX CPUs were shipping in the second half of last month. Many different people recently have said Microcenter employees had indicated to them that they were selling CPUs on the 12th. Later, MC indicated they have CPUs in-hand, too, which suggests they actually could start selling on the 12th if allowed. October 12 is also listed as the end of embargo date on some recent AMD slides that slightly pre-dated the MC contact information. October 12 is also listed as the (current) end date for the FX giveaway contest. Some etailers have also started listing products in their catalogs or offering pre-orders. These things together create the 12th of October as being a plausible date while everything before this has been purely fantasty.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15159141*
> If anyone currently has a 990FX board, it would be very prudent to update to the latest BIOS _before_ pulling out their current Phenom II.


Safety first!


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djxput;15159299*
> From what I have read this is taking from a mixture of sources and perhaps some of these sources used conjecture to deduce the magical date (kind of like how they used to do the 'world will end on this date')
> 
> - youtube vid
> - some vendors
> - amd contest
> - websites spouting dates as if they are concrete
> 
> = 12th of Oct.
> 
> I personally just want to see some benchmarks (gaming mainly) - have had an itch for awhile now ...


I'm pretty sure we all do. I also want to slap the Thermalright Silver Arrow or the Alpenföhn K2 on the FX-8150 and overclock that sucker. And then play BF3 or Skyrim...or TF2








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle;15159596*
> September 19: Taken from a promotional video with a partial frame of an old Phenom slide from years ago. People mistook it for a release date.
> 
> October 12: Composite of actual sources. There was a rumor that FX CPUs were shipping in the second half of last month. Many different people recently have said Microcenter employees had indicated to them that they were selling CPUs on the 12th. Later, MC indicated they have CPUs in-hand, too, which suggests they actually could start selling on the 12th if allowed. October 12 is also listed as the end of embargo date on some recent AMD slides that slightly pre-dated the MC contact information. October 12 is also listed as the (current) end date for the FX giveaway contest. Some etailers have also started listing products in their catalogs or offering pre-orders. These things together create the 12th of October as being a plausible date while everything before this has been purely fantasty.


I actually didn't know there was quite this much information. Good job, dude!


----------



## flashtest

Also the magazine that has published on 1st but said it will tell on 12th which chip is which in the benchmarks that it had printed out. (btw they are not really happy with AMD naming the modules 2 Cores) telling it would be a very nice CPU if it was marketed as 4.

btw, sorry if already posted, seems i missed it - http://www.planet3dnow.de/cgi-bin/newspub/viewnews.cgi?category=1&id=1317204670


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15159605*
> I'm pretty sure we all do. I also want to slap the Thermalright Silver Arrow or the Alpenföhn K2 on the FX-8150 and overclock that sucker. And then play BF3 or Skyrim...or TF2


Well it all started with me wanting to play d3 like a champ ... alas wont see that game till next year. Now Im just hyped about 8150 and hoping it will be what Im looking for.

and agree with you about skyrim; looks really cool.

Im slowly working my way with some parts for a 'upgraded' system ... m4 256 crucial and a corsair ax850, h80 ... think I know what mb I will go with (the asrock 990fx extreme 3 looks interesting to me; just no idea what ram to go with it ...) so waiting on mb ... but of coursewant to see benches-


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;15158507*
> The problem is that my work is suffering under it, I cant wait that long anymore, I need a strong cpu for rendering. Now im sitting half the time waiting for it to finish


I think you should wait, I believe that is of the the areas Bulldozer is going to pack a price vs performance punch.

If you really have to go now, grab a i5/i7 "k" and switch out to Bulldozer if it warrants it once it's released.

I would wait, but it's your money


----------



## willistech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djxput;15159299*
> From what I have read this is taking from a mixture of sources and perhaps some of these sources used conjecture to deduce the magical date (kind of like how they used to do the 'world will end on this date')
> 
> - youtube vid
> - some vendors
> - amd contest
> - websites spouting dates as if they are concrete
> 
> = 12th of Oct.
> 
> I personally just want to see some benchmarks (gaming mainly) - have had an itch for awhile now ...


If you can find me the original link on the websites please do most have been removed including the pre-sale that was up. Almost everything up is referring to another site that no longer has the info up.

AMD ending a contest on midnight of the 12th is hardly good evidence.

Tankguy said his supplier is now saying early November. I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## mav451

Lol Tankguys is just one retailer. Are you going to base everything off of his announcement? Sure it indicates real-world availability, in terms of worst-case scenario, but I think everyone is just interested in seeing real benchmarks.

It may end up being a paper launch Oct.12th, but if the MC announcement turns out to be true, then it's just an indication of other larger retailers getting first dibs. Tough luck, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case either.


----------



## willistech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav451*


Lol Tankguys is just one retailer. Are you going to base everything off of his announcement? Sure it indicates real-world availability, in terms of worst-case scenario, but I think everyone is just interested in seeing real benchmarks.

It may end up being a paper launch Oct.12th, but if the MC announcement turns out to be true, then it's just an indication of other larger retailers getting first dibs. Tough luck, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case either.


Isnt it funny how everyone is betting on the Oct 12th launch strictly based off the Microcenter date? You are going to badger me for quoting Tankguys. Please.









Lol Microcenter is just one retailer. Are you going to base everything off their announcement?


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


Isnt it funny how everyone is betting on the Oct 12th launch strictly based off the Microcenter date? You are going to badger me for quoting Tankguys. Please.









Lol Microcenter is just one retailer. Are you going to base everything off their announcement?


Sure why not. Most of my B&M purchases come from Microcenter. My e8400 at launch came from MC. So did my i5 750. So I'm bullish, you're bearish. Also I'm in agreement with Particle's summary, which was posted a couple pages earlier.

Anyway, there'd be no fun if we agreed on everything.


----------



## Don Karnage

Guys what is the collective thought on why Amd hasn't released these chips?

Performance issues?
Low yields?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Guys what is the collective thought on why Amd hasn't released these chips?

Performance issues?
Low yields?


AMD isn't going to release BD, BD is a lie. On Oct 12th they will announce that they never actually intended to release an FX chip, it was all done as a Case Study to see how long or what it takes to induce Nerd Rage






























***JUST A JOKE NON OF THESE STATEMENTS ARE TRUE***


----------



## kchris

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Guys what is the collective thought on why Amd hasn't released these chips?


Because its not as good as Sandy Bridge and that's the truth. Their only chance was to release it before Sandy Bridge came out, but at that time it was so terrible that it still would have been torn apart by the reviews. Now at this point they have pretty much "completed it" but unfortunately its too late and intel is too far ahead in their technology for BD to be relevant in the high end enthusiast user market. Fortunately some AMD fanboys will purchase it anyway just because they are such loyal customers. I wish I made a company which sold inferior products which were constantly delayed but still had loyal customers buying it out of brand loyalty for no reason.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


Because its not as good as Sandy Bridge and that's the truth. Their only chance was to release it before Sandy Bridge came out, but at that time it was so terrible that it still would have been torn apart by the reviews. Now at this point they have pretty much "completed it" but unfortunately its too late and intel is too far ahead in their technology for BD to be relevant in the high end enthusiast user market. Fortunately some AMD fanboys will purchase it anyway just because they are such loyal customers. I wish I made a company which sold inferior products which were constantly delayed but still had loyal customers buying it out of brand loyalty for no reason.


QTF, Can't really say anything definitive because.....IT IS NOT OFFICIALLY RELEASED!!!! But, your trollism is remarkable!! Thanks for sharing!!


----------



## willistech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


Because its not as good as Sandy Bridge and that's the truth. Their only chance was to release it before Sandy Bridge came out, but at that time it was so terrible that it still would have been torn apart by the reviews. Now at this point they have pretty much "completed it" but unfortunately its too late and intel is too far ahead in their technology for BD to be relevant in the high end enthusiast user market. Fortunately some AMD fanboys will purchase it anyway just because they are such loyal customers. I wish I made a company which sold inferior products which were constantly delayed but still had loyal customers buying it out of brand loyalty *for no reason*.


price point would be considered a reason. they are less expensive.


----------



## kchris

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


price point would be considered a reason. they are less expensive.


They are less expensive for a reason; they are not as good. If you are selling an inferior product, the least you can do is sell it at its market price. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to charge what Intel charges for their processors because no one would buy it then. They don't sell it at a cheap price as a favor to their customers, they sell it at that price to remain somewhat competitive.


----------



## pcclock

The 12th is definitely not the release date. The fact that its based on a "contend" end date is laughable. Definitely a fail for logic and reasoning.









A much more realistic date would be November, probably December to be sure.

Something like 2 months at the earliest.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Guys what is the collective thought on why Amd hasn't released these chips?

Performance issues?
Low yields?


My personal thoughts are as follows, GF has yeild issues with the gpu portion of the llano chips, cuased a supply side bottle neck and that AMD is selling loads of llano chips to OEM's. In fact they can't keep up with demand. GF even spent a TON of money to bring up more fabs in NY (ahead of schedule)becuase 32nm is still stretched to thin.I am not sure if the ny 32nm fabs are up yet, but according to news from GF they did bump the date for production readiness up substantially and spent a ton of money to do so.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


They are less expensive for a reason; they are not as good. If you are selling an inferior product, the least you can do is sell it at its market price. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to charge what Intel charges for their processors because no one would buy it then. They don't sell it at a cheap price as a favor to their customers, they sell it at that price to remain somewhat competitive.


Sorry for the car analogy, but the corvette z06 and zr1 beat out European competitors in every way, and sell for anywhere from 25%-50% of the price of other supercars. Sometimes things are a good value, sometimes they aren't. But nothin drops pantys faster then my buddy's Ferrari !. True story


----------



## Arthedes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


The 12th is definitely not the release date. The fact that its based on a "contend" end date is laughable. Definitely a fail for logic and reasoning.









A much more realistic date would be November, probably December to be sure.

Something like 2 months at the earliest.


nah, its going to be released on the 12th.

Why you ask? 'Cause I say so


----------



## Morbid_666

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


price point would be considered a reason. they are less expensive.


also they have a soul! been saying that for years now noone believes. i have clients all over london & built hundreds of pcs over years - all amd. the only time i touch intels is when crappy dell/hp/compaq pcs breakdown due to some silly problems (fan throttled down by bios for cpu/nb to overheat & break after 2 years), manufacturers want them to go out at some point. u cannot beat amd against price/performance ratio - fact! i will keep on buying them as i prefer their approach to motherboards. i tried many times to play around & getting intel rig for others but they are not future proof. its clear that intel have some lucrative deals w mb manufacturers therefore its more profitable for them to make intel boards as consumers are forced to buy them with every upgrade.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


The problem is that my work is suffering under it, I cant wait that long anymore, I need a strong cpu for rendering. Now im sitting half the time waiting for it to finish










I got new for yeah, you will always be waiting on rendering until we get at least a 10x increase in compute power. However numerous software vendors have embraced CUDA on Nvidia cards and stream compute on AMD cards and now offer substantially improved rendering times. No CPU is going to likely cut your rendering times in half any time in the foreseeable future.

So, my advice, buy rendering software that can make use of gpu resources heavily and buy a good card.


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Guys what is the collective thought on why Amd hasn't released these chips?

Performance issues?
Low yields?


http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20111003PD212.html

Quote:



Supply of AMD's Llano APUs, affected by Globalfoundries's lower-than-expected 32nm yield rates, has been significantly limited and is unlikely to recover until the company's upcoming Trinity arrives in 2012, according to sources from motherboard players. When asked about the company's upcoming Trinity schedule, AMD Taiwan declined to comment on unannounced products.

AMD started suffering from Llano APU supply shortages in July due to the yield issues and the company originally expected the supply status to return to normal in September. However, judging from the current situation, the sources believe the company's supply volume is unlikely to meet client demand through the end of 2011.

The sources estimated that the yield rate issue should be resolved in 2012, when Trinity launches.

APUs codenamed Trinity are set to appear in the first quarter of 2012, integrating AMD's Radeon HD 7000 series graphics chips (Southern Islands). The APU part to be manufactured on Globalfoundries' 32nm process and graphics chip part on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company's (TSMC's) 28nm process.

Despite seeing problems in both 32nm and 45nm processes, Globalfoundries will continue its cooperation with Samsung Electronics over 28nm process technologies.


Yield issues are really hurting them.
Yes, I know this is for APU, but that is where the money is right now, so I wouldn't be shocked if they are dedicating more reserves for them, thus harming BD.


----------



## huhh

Love how people talk about the performance of BD compared to SB as if they work for AMD and know exactly how the final product will perform.

Ever think that the lower price is to get more people to buy. They don't exactly need as much money to offset R&D costs as much as intel.

A lot of speculation going on here with only leaked benchmarks, which could be real or fake.

I know I'll get flamed...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *huhh;15161991*
> A lot of speculation going on here with only leaked benchmarks, which could be real or fake.
> 
> I know I'll get flamed...


I agree. I think we should all picket outside AMD and demand BD benchmark results


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *huhh;15161991*
> Love how people talk about the performance of BD compared to SB as if they work for AMD and know exactly how the final product will perform.
> 
> Ever think that the lower price is to get more people to buy. They don't exactly need as much money to offset R&D costs as much as intel.
> 
> A lot of speculation going on here with only leaked benchmarks, which could be real or fake.
> 
> I know I'll get flamed...


If they have a good price/performance ratio "like the chevrolet corvette" they could gain a considerable amount of market share. They however won't make a dent in the niche " i spent alot of money look how awesome I am crowd" at all.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *huhh;15161991*
> Love how people talk about the performance of BD compared to SB as if they work for and know exactly how the final product will perform.
> 
> Ever think that the lower price is to get more people to buy. They don't exactly need as much money to offset R&D costs as much as intel.
> 
> A lot of speculation going on here with only leaked benchmarks, which could be real or fake.
> 
> I know I'll get flamed...


You shouldn't get flamed. It was a much better post than the people gibbering about how much worse than SB Bulldozer is.

It's nice to see that someone is reasonable enough to wait for benchmarks.


----------



## Namwons

if the bulldozer architecture is scalable, do you think we could see modules with three3 integer cores in the future? i would want per thread performance to be improved before moving onto an architecture with three threads per mod though. do you think AMD i heading in this direction? i think it would be interesting.


----------



## tvr

What would be the best way 2 go?


----------



## djxput

maybe you guys wont find this as humorous as me but for 700 pages of chit chat and we only know some basic stats of the BD ...

dont even know how it will perform; and when it will be released ...

(here is to hoping 9 days from now we know both of the above)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15159622*
> Also the magazine that has published on 1st but said it will tell on 12th which chip is which in the benchmarks that it had printed out. (btw they are not really happy with AMD naming the modules 2 Cores) telling it would be a very nice CPU if it was marketed as 4.
> 
> btw, sorry if already posted, seems i missed it - http://www.planet3dnow.de/cgi-bin/newspub/viewnews.cgi?category=1&id=1317204670


Many people have said this before, but think about it this way.

Most AMD sales roughly 80% come from the masses, which is mostly un-informed. If they are comparing 2 systems.

*1st System says:* Quad Core @ 3.3 GHZ
*2nd says:* 8 Cores @ 3.6 GHZ

The 2nd system MUST be better because it has MORE cores, and runs FASTER. I know 1st hand, I've had to deal with people who think this way, and that's definitely the MAJORITY.

Most people have no idea what IPC is, nor do they look up benchmarks. Us enthusiasts are 6% of the market ( as JF-AMD stated ). We're the most informed, but we account for the lowest percentage of sales.

At the end of the day, you market your products to those who make you the most money.

Chew* who was part of the World Record run said this...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chew**
> For whatever reason AMD chose to market it as cores.
> 
> In reality however BD is more akin to 4 cores / 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> I have said this since the beginning.
> 
> There are however other reasons for calling them cores.
> 
> Example you can disable HT with intel.
> 
> AMD's design to my knowledge however does not allow for disabling a core in a module, I could be wrong however.
> 
> I see it as a 4 core part that can execute up to 8 threads, *An engineer at AMD* while I was there tended to agree with me


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!/page69

If you look at the CPU die shots, what does it resemble?










A while back, Intel showed an Ivy Bridge 8 core die, where you can distinctly see 8 cores.










At the end of the day, it's an 8 thread CPU regardless, and will be cheaper than a 2600K.

JF-AMD disagrees with this, so I'll save him the time from posting and repeating himself.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15112515*
> Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.
> 
> If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?
> 
> Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is one core other than "well, _I_ think it is...."


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15105781*
> Imagine inside your quad core processor today you have a whole lot of silicon doing nothing. Except eating power. And costing money.
> 
> In our house we have a living room and a guest bedroom that we never use. We cool it in the summer. We heat it in the winter. We clean it. But we never use it. And that square footage hits our taxes.
> 
> Inside of each core, you have a front end (fetch and decode) that are probably rarely over 20% utilized. You also have a huge FPU that for client workloads, sits idle most of the time. But you also have integer pipelines. Those are always full, those are always working. What if we could take away some of the things that are over provisioned and rarely used and replace them with things that are used constantly?
> 
> So instead of 6 integer cores, you get 8. In a smaller die. That uses less power.
> 
> It's a win-win. I laugh when the famboys throw up the "shared FPU means it isn't a real core" argument. Apparently they don't realize how many cycles the FPU sits idle, or lightly used, in most client applications. It's like putting a trailer on your car so you always have the cargo space "just in case", and then wonder why your gas mileage sucks.
> 
> Bulldozer - more of what you need, less of what you don't.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Namwons;15162896*
> if the bulldozer architecture is scalable, do you think we could see modules with three3 integer cores in the future? i would want per thread performance to be improved before moving onto an architecture with three threads per mod though. do you think AMD i heading in this direction? i think it would be interesting.


Pretty sure it's already been stated that it can't scale in 3's.


----------



## kabj06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15163328*


This looks more like a Core2 Quad than anything. This is being sold as a 8 core CPU? I have no doubt that it can run 8 threads but... Hey, doesn't the i3/i5/i7 double the amount of physical cores by virtualization? This seems to be what Bulldozer is doing. If I am totally off please correct me.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15163328*
> Many people have said this before, but think about it this way.
> 
> Most AMD sales roughly 80% come from the masses, which is mostly un-informed. If they are comparing 2 systems.
> 
> *1st System says:* Quad Core @ 3.3 GHZ
> *2nd says:* 8 Cores @ 3.6 GHZ
> 
> The 2nd system MUST be better because it has MORE cores, and runs FASTER. I know 1st hand, I've had to deal with people who think this way, and that's definitely the MAJORITY.
> 
> Most people have no idea what IPC is, nor do they look up benchmarks. Us enthusiasts are 6% of the market ( as JF-AMD stated ). We're the most informed, but we account for the lowest percentage of sales.
> 
> At the end of the day, you market your products to those who make you the most money.
> 
> Chew* who was part of the World Record run said this...
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?265710-AMD-Zambezi-news-info-fans-!/page69
> 
> If you look at the CPU die shots, what does it resemble?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A while back, Intel showed an Ivy Bridge 8 core die, where you can distinctly see 8 cores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, it's an 8 thread CPU regardless, and will be cheaper than a 2600K.
> 
> JF-AMD disagrees with this, so I'll save him the time from posting and repeating himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure it's already been stated that it can't scale in 3's.


8 , it'll goto 4 over 3, and I bet is already on a roadmap somewhere.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

The only thing that matters is if it it performs like a 4c/8t cpu, in that I mean not the greatest return on multithreading performance, but not the gigantic loss that ensues in lightly threaded tasks (like gaming).

However JF has stated over and over that the performance loss of running both cores inside the same module is minor, just a few percent. So with that information it becomes less likely it performs like an i7-2600k, but more akin to an actual eight core cpu.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kabj06*


This looks more like a Core2 Quad than anything. This is being sold as a 8 core CPU? I have no doubt that it can run 8 threads but... Hey, doesn't the i3/i5/i7 double the amount of physical cores by virtualization? This seems to be what Bulldozer is doing. If I am totally off please correct me.


AMD isn't virtualizing the 2nd core, its a real int core with it own 128b pipeline for fpu, the fpu pipeline can be merged for 256b however.


----------



## hokiealumnus

As I understand things, the CPU does _physically_ have 8 cores. It's just that they have eight CPU cores...but only four FPU cores. The eight cores share, in pairs within modules, the CPU's front-end (scheduler/prefetcher/etc), FPU core and L2 cache. All modules also have their own L3 cache, but it is outside the module for some reason. So the CPU does have eight physical, honest to god cores; but not in the sense that we're used to them (as in all cores have all that stuff to themselves) and they're shared in four modules. This is why it's such a departure from the norm and also why it's not HT per se'.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


As I understand things, the CPU does _physically_ have 8 cores. It's just that they have eight CPU cores...but only four FPU cores. The eight cores share, in pairs within modules, the CPU's front-end (scheduler/prefetcher/etc), FPU core and L2 cache. All modules also have their own L3 cache, but it is outside the module for some reason. So the CPU does have eight physical, honest to god cores; but not in the sense that we're used to them (as in all cores have all that stuff to themselves) and they're shared in four modules. This is why it's such a departure from the norm and also why it's not HT per se'.


So, is it safe to say that BD re-defines the definition of a core as we have been used to?

Also, when I look at the BD die shot I fail to see 8 distinct cores.

I mainly see 4 "modules".

7000th post :whee:

Do I win an AMD tshirt?


----------



## Rebelord

Has JF-AMD commented on Oct 12th as a release? Asking because there is _another_ news post, stating that MicroCenter is confirming the 12th as release.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


So, is it safe to say that BD re-defines the definition of a core as we have been used to?


Yes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Also, when I look at the BD die shot I fail to see 8 distinct cores.


So

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I mainly see 4 "modules".


your point

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


7000th post :whee:


congrats

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Do I win an AMD tshirt?


Why ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rebelord*


Has JF-AMD commented on Oct 12th as a release? Asking because there is _another_ news post, stating that MicroCenter is confirming the 12th as release.


Microcenter has no reason to lie about this, they aren't offering any special deals or pre-orders. With the release so soon I don't understand why AMD hasn't lifted the NDA to allow people to see how BD performs before making the decision to buy their product.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


So, is it safe to say that BD re-defines the definition of a core as we have been used to?

Also, when I look at the BD die shot I fail to see 8 distinct cores.

I mainly see 4 "modules".

7000th post :whee:

Do I win an AMD tshirt?


I think so, yes. That you can't see it of course doesn't mean a whole lot. I can't tell what part is the L2 cache is in that SB-E die shot (though I can take a reasonable guess), but that doesn't mean it isn't there.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Yes
your point

Why ?


my point is I don't see 8 cores. Do you?

Because I want one.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


I think so, yes. That you can't see it of course doesn't mean a whole lot. I can't tell what part is the L2 cache is in that SB-E die shot (though I can take a reasonable guess), but that doesn't mean it isn't there.










Here we distinctly see 8 cores


----------



## Skiivari

Wut?
4 Modules, 8 "cores" what's your problem?
I can't see under the metallic IHS of a processor, so is there anything inside?
Ofcourse not!


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


A while back, Intel showed an Ivy Bridge 8 core die, where you can distinctly see 8 cores.











Just so you know, that's not an Ivy Bridge 8 Core die, it's a 22nm SRAM test chip. See page 2 of this Intel PDF. The image was released in September 2009. I think it was only this year that it started to be purported as an eight core Ivy die shot.

This however is a shot of the eight core sandy bridge die. It's from here. You're point about seeing eight distinct cores stands. Sorry for being slightly off topic.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


my point is I don't see 8 cores. Do you?

Because I want one.

Here we distinctly see 8 cores










I don't understand the colors spectrum gas analysis. does it make it any less valid ?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Just so you know, that's not an Ivy Bridge 8 Core die, it's a 22nm SRAM test chip. See page 2 of this Intel PDF. The image was released in September 2009. I think it was only this year that it started to be purported as an eight core Ivy die shot.

This however is a shot of the eight core sandy bridge die. It's from here. You're point about seeing eight distinct cores stands. Sorry for being slightly off topic.











Thanks for the clarification.

In this article, it stated: Intel Displays 22nm CPU With 8 Cores
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/intel...u-with-8-cores

Anyway, didn't mean to get completely off topic, I was pointing out that I don't see 8 distinct cores in that BD die shot.

If we look at a Phenom II 1090T die shot, we see 6 distinct cores










Just like if we were to look at a Gulftown die shot, we see 6 distinct cores.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Just so you know, that's not an Ivy Bridge 8 Core die, it's a 22nm SRAM test chip. See page 2 of this Intel PDF. The image was released in September 2009. I think it was only this year that it started to be purported as an eight core Ivy die shot.

This however is a shot of the eight core sandy bridge die. It's from here. You're point about seeing eight distinct cores stands. Sorry for being slightly off topic.











Thanks for the tip!

As far as the cores, you may not see them unless we can get a closer shot of the module itself. Taking* a complete guess* (emphasis because lots of people in this thread like to take guesses as gospel), I see what appears to be two identical parts in each module. These may or may not be the cores, but the cores are the only significant part there should be two of in each module.

Attachment 231887


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


Thanks for the tip!

As far as the cores, you may not see them unless we can get a closer shot of the module itself. Taking* a complete guess* (emphasis because lots of people in this thread like to take guesses as gospel), I see what appears to be two identical parts in each module. These may or may not be the cores, but the cores are the only significant part there should be two of in each module.

Attachment 231887


Good guess, see, that's what I've been trying to do as well, is to look for identical parts that would resemble 8 distinct cores.

I guess I'm just so used to seeing distinct cores in all our CPU's, and to ME, the BD die shot more closely resembles a 4 core CPU being able to run 8 threads. I still believe that the design is far more efficient than a 4 core with HT CPU like the 2600K.

Thanks for the friendly debate, while we get to the bottom of this.


----------



## radaja

here a good picture guess for the where the cores are in the BD module
AMD's Bulldozer cores to push to 3.5 GHz and beyond

hans de vries has some good pics too
Orochi Die shot


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus*


Thanks for the tip!

As far as the cores, you may not see them unless we can get a closer shot of the module itself. Taking* a complete guess* (emphasis because lots of people in this thread like to take guesses as gospel), I see what appears to be two identical parts in each module. These may or may not be the cores, but the cores are the only significant part there should be two of in each module.


EDIT: I Guess I was a bit slow posting this, nice radaja!

I believe you are correct. This japanese article by Hiroshige Goto purports to have a reasonably high resolution image of a module, and it aligns well with what you pointed out.

I tend to agree that we shouldn't judge Zambezi as a four core cpu because there only appear to be four major areas of core logic. It's just the way the cores are organized.

I think that based on the organization of the modules, the die size (*purported* to be 315 mm^2), and transistor count (*unknown*, but I *estimated* it to be around 1.5 billion here), Zambezi should be regarded and judged as an eight core CPU.

Here's the comparison of a bulldozer module to a llano core.


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


here a good picture guess for the where the cores are in the BD module
AMD's Bulldozer cores to push to 3.5 GHz and beyond

hans de vries has some good pics too
Orochi Die shot


Hey, I was pretty close!


----------



## flashtest

Simple marketing choice - as you already stated - most customers buy on the "more = better" concept - else if they marketed it as a 4 "2 Threaded" Cores it would be more technically correct (as far as the old definition of cores goes - having nothing shared) but really hard to explain a buyer what thread is and what shared is and... yea. Hey their decision (intel did market the same with HT but as threats even if the CPU actually could handle only 1 (+ the aggressive scheduler). My bet - 90% of the non biased hardware sites will type 8 "cores"


----------



## Myst-san

In my country there is a fairly known hardware distributor and they have listed FX cpu. One of the guys in a similar tread to this said that he have ordered a 8120 and they have confirm that it will arrive at the end of the next week. So 12th it look very attractive. http://www.jarcomputers.com/l_bg/?m=...e=0&shipping=0


----------



## flashtest

Jar .... can't believe this (got 140 video cards from them some years ago) btw the blue 20 is for up to 20 work days and a Lev is 0.50 Euro. 
So - 
8150 235 Euro 
8120 200Euro 
6100 170 Euro (they usually have prices equal to major European resellers (sometimes a little cheaper).


----------



## Myst-san

^ Yes, but some times in Bg they like to over price and the new thech comes slow.


----------



## flashtest

Oh yea, specially if no one else sells it on the market yet, (remember paying half a fortune for an A64 when it first released.)


----------



## supercow

http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=...150+Eight-Core


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *supercow*


http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=...150+Eight-Core


Posted days ago


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *supercow*


http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=...150+Eight-Core


Please refer to this locked thread.








http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...k-results.html


----------



## Spacedinvader

thought i saw that before...


----------



## supercow

im on there everyday and just noticed that lol, my bad...


----------



## pcclock

Wow +700 pages. I wonder if it will reach +1000 before release.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Wow +700 pages. I wonder if it will reach +1000 before release.










If they keep on delaying the crap out of BD, I'm sure it will.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15165997*
> Wow +700 pages. I wonder if it will reach +1000 before release.


Easy target given the massive amounts of trolls that crash BD threads. Even when BD does release into the wild, we all know that people will find *SOMETHING* to argue and complain about BD. This I guaranty..









297 posts to go!!!!!!!


----------



## Tweeky

Wait for it
Wait for it
Grab hold of something
Only 9 days till the next delay


----------



## cokezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15119842*
> Tankguys works for AMD ?


I work for AMD but i don't see much NDA stuff









i just do office work lol


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cokezone;15166568*
> I work for AMD but i don't see much NDA stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just do office work lol


So what's the latest rumor in the offices?


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cokezone;15166568*
> I work for AMD but i don't see much NDA stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just do office work lol


Is it common to hear the number twelve combined in some way with October over there?


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cokezone;15166568*
> I work for AMD but i don't see much NDA stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just do office work lol


Are you allowed to take a vacation anytime this month?


----------



## cokezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15166587*
> So what's the latest rumor in the offices?


There is not that much rumors here due to the dept i work at.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flippy125;15166622*
> Is it common to hear the number twelve combined in some way with October over there?


If it is launching then i'll probably find out 2-3 days before if i'm lucky.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15166788*
> Are you allowed to take a vacation anytime this month?


I did apply for some at the end of the month and i still haven't been giving confirmation


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cokezone;15167050*
> I did apply for some at the end of the month and i still haven't been giving confirmation


If you get denied before Oct.12, try to ask to take that day off..


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15163677*
> As I understand things, the CPU does _physically_ have 8 cores. It's just that they have eight CPU cores...but only four FPU cores. The eight cores share, in pairs within modules, the CPU's front-end (scheduler/prefetcher/etc), FPU core and L2 cache. All modules also have their own L3 cache, but it is outside the module for some reason. So the CPU does have eight physical, honest to god cores; but not in the sense that we're used to them (as in all cores have all that stuff to themselves) and they're shared in four modules. This is why it's such a departure from the norm and also why it's not HT per se'.


In 128-bit FP mode (like probably 99% of the desktop apps will use) there are 8 cores and 8 FP units.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebelord;15163992*
> Has JF-AMD commented on Oct 12th as a release? Asking because there is _another_ news post, stating that MicroCenter is confirming the 12th as release.


No, because he doesn't comment on dates.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15164364*
> Anyway, didn't mean to get completely off topic, I was pointing out that I don't see 8 distinct cores in that BD die shot.


If you had x-ray eyes, you'd be able to see beyond the first layer. There are 10 more below that one. Just because you don't see what you want on the top layer doesn't mean it isn't there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15166788*
> Are you allowed to take a vacation anytime this month?


Half of my team is taking vacation right now. And if someone wanted vacation on launch day I would never deny it. That makes you a jerk of a boss. You have to do what is best for your people and they will give you their best back.

As for those that say that somehow core counts are just "marketing" and the processor is really only 4 cores. Please explain 2 things:

1. How do you explain the 8 discrete integer schedulers and 8 discrete integer pipelines. No thread can occupy both cores.
2. If you were a customer and you found out that the "quad core", when using only 4 threads, could only use half of the integer pipelines, you'd be pissed, right? If you are only running 4 threads, you only get use of 4 cores, not 8.


----------



## 2010rig

Can you comment on what Chew* said?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chew**
> For whatever reason AMD chose to market it as cores.
> 
> In reality however BD is more akin to 4 cores / 8 threads as they share resources.
> 
> I have said this since the beginning.
> 
> There are however other reasons for calling them cores.
> 
> Example you can disable HT with intel.
> 
> AMD's design to my knowledge however does not allow for disabling a core in a module, I could be wrong however.
> 
> I see it as a 4 core part that can execute up to 8 threads, *An engineer at AMD* while I was there tended to agree with me


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15167592*
> If you had x-ray eyes, you'd be able to see beyond the first layer. There are 10 more below that one. Just because you don't see what you want on the top layer doesn't mean it isn't there.


I apologize for taking interest in your CPU that I've been waiting all year for, and wondering where the 8 cores were, as they weren't clearly noticeable like they are on other CPU die shots. If there were more die shots available that clearly showed the 8 cores, one wouldn't have to wonder where they were.

I also apologize for not having X-ray vision, I'll work on that.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15167682*
> I also apologize for not having X-ray vision, I'll work on that.


Or maybe when somebody kills one of these with the inevitable extreme overclocking attempts, they can de-lid the cpu, shave down the die a little bit at a time, and take a photo of each layer for us.

Not gonna happen, but isn't that what Cyrix did to reverse engineer Intel's designs back in the day?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Ok, out of curiosity why do you guys want BD so bad? Don't misunderstand my question, I am NOT trolling. I am just curios as to why some of you are getting worked up about BD. I am excited about it but as far as most of you are concernd I have a pretty lame reason for wanting BD. I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


----------



## proximo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15168137*
> I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


1) VMs. I run a lot of VMs for software testing.
2) I have about 1400 videos to re-encode.

The more fast cores the merrier.

EDIT: and there's no way I'm spending $1k on a processor


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15167592*
> Half of my team is taking vacation right now. And if someone wanted vacation on launch day I would never deny it. That makes you a jerk of a boss. You have to do what is best for your people and they will give you their best back.


Well, now. That pretty much tells me that I _do_ want to work at AMD.







+








Quote:


> As for those that say that somehow core counts are just "marketing" and the processor is really only 4 cores. Please explain 2 things:
> 
> 1. How do you explain the 8 discrete integer schedulers and 8 discrete integer pipelines. No thread can occupy both cores.
> 2. If you were a customer and you found out that the "quad core", when using only 4 threads, could only use half of the integer pipelines, you'd be pissed, right? If you are only running 4 threads, you only get use of 4 cores, not 8.


Cool explanation.
Like everyone else has, I'd like to thank you for what you do around here and other forums.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15168137*
> Ok, out of curiosity why do you guys want BD so bad? Don't misunderstand my question, I am NOT trolling. I am just curios as to why some of you are getting worked up about BD. I am excited about it but as far as most of you are concernd I have a pretty lame reason for wanting BD. I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


I fold and game. If I knew what I was doing, I'd probably do game videos, too. And I just want my computer to be T3H AW3SUMSAUC3!!!1!!11!!!!11oneone!1one1eleven

Okay, gaizz. I'm getting essited.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15168137*
> Ok, out of curiosity why do you guys want BD so bad? Don't misunderstand my question, I am NOT trolling. I am just curios as to why some of you are getting worked up about BD. I am excited about it but as far as most of you are concernd I have a pretty lame reason for wanting BD. I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


I don't even need it, I barely put my 955 to decent use. I'm mostly interested in bulldozer from an academic perspective. Its a new architecture and a piece or extraordinary technology (whether it performs or not). I've always been interesting in electronics, and in high school I became interested in semiconductor design and manufacturing. I ended up in the medical sciences area in university rather than engineering, so its always fun to return to these topics. Things are always more fun to learn about when you don't _have_ to study them.


----------



## Shahzad7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15167592*
> Half of my team is taking vacation right now. And if someone wanted vacation on launch day I would never deny it. That makes you a jerk of a boss. You have to do what is best for your people and they will give you their best back.


You sir, have just earned my respect, you can win the interwebs if you wish.

The reason I asked is because I remember some stores preventing their employees taking a vacation during October because of the launch of iPhone. I found it quite absurd, but it is nice to know that AMD (or you as a rep of AMD) does not follow that nonsense.


----------



## valvehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15168137*
> I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


I'm planning to upgrade my old P4 home server, and I like the expandability of the 990FX platform. Sandy Bridge is really lacking in this regard. X79 may be an option, but at considerably more overall cost.

Mostly I'm hoping that BD turns out to be a folding/encoding beast. Along with my 2600K, I'll have the best of both worlds. Also, I've never had an AMD rig before, and I like to try different things out for myself (I'm currently diving head-on into Linux).


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15167592*
> [snip]...
> Half of my team is taking vacation right now. *And if someone wanted vacation on launch day I would never deny it.* That makes you a jerk of a boss. You have to do what is best for your people and they will give you their best back.
> 
> As for those that say that somehow core counts are just "marketing" and the processor is really only 4 cores. Please explain 2 things:
> 
> 1. How do you explain the 8 discrete integer schedulers and 8 discrete integer pipelines. No thread can occupy both cores.
> 2. If you were a customer and you found out that the "quad core", when using only 4 threads, could only use half of the integer pipelines, you'd be pissed, right? If you are only running 4 threads, you only get use of 4 cores, not 8.


Woh!!! .....he's not a bot after all!!! LOL

Good show JF! Nice to see that you are a human being! Maybe the underlings will be a little kinder to you now.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I wouldn't take a break on launch day.
I'd kick back and celebrate with my fellow team members.
Drinking some awesome alcoholic beverages.


----------



## StarDestroyer

game makers have to start making better use of CPUs, and peole need to ditch their dual cores for quads


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15169028*
> game makers have to start making better use of CPUs, and *peole need to ditch their quad cores for octos*


Fixed


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15169162*
> Fixed


Couldn't you have at least fixed his grammatical errors in the process?


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15168137*
> Ok, out of curiosity why do you guys want BD so bad? Don't misunderstand my question, I am NOT trolling. I am just curios as to why some of you are getting worked up about BD. I am excited about it but as far as most of you are concernd I have a pretty lame reason for wanting BD. I would like to know what you guys think its going to do for your rigs.


I've had AMD since I jumped from my PIII to Athlon in 99. I've always had AMD rigs after that. I've found them stable, good overall performance and easy to upgrade (on the whole).

For me, even if BD won't take crown, I'm sure it will be good enough and I will continue to support a company that have saved me some serious money over the years.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not a AMD Fanatic, but it would have to happen something serious, like some moral ethical issue(since I find those issues important) or that AMD would really overprice their components for me to go intel. I'm quite loyal to the AMD brand, since it had paid off for me. Others might not agree, but that's my reasons.

EDIT: Oh, forgot...my old phenom is getting a bit long in the tooth.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15167592*
> 
> Half of my team is taking vacation right now. And if someone wanted vacation on launch day I would never deny it. That makes you a jerk of a boss. You have to do what is best for your people and they will give you their best back.


Every day must be a vacation at Intel if this is true.

I like how JF-AMD has been forth coming and honest at least admitting Intel has been dominating AMD for quite some time.

I don't think AMD even has a desire for the performance crown, so I don't expect Bulldozer to blow the 2600k away. It will probably be on par however. And that is a pretty big welcoming step for AMD.

Just to catch up to Intel at this point would be a victory for AMD.

If my desktop don't sell I'll probably put a bulldozer chip in there.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Half of my team is taking vacation right now.


JF, I thought you said the reason behind BD delays are suppose to be confidential?


----------



## AMDrocks

JF-AMD, I know you don't comment on release date, But could you give us a time-frame of when you expect to actually release it?

Or tell us if we are close to seeing the release of bulldozer?

Oh, And do you have a Intel rig?







<< You don't have to answer that one if you don't want to, Understandable.

AMDrocks


----------



## BallaTheFeared

How much (if any) R&D testing does AMD do with Intels designs?

Do you guys do in house testing with Intel systems to see how yours compare?


----------



## flashtest

Every self-respecting company tests the competitor's products.
Believe me AMD and intel do review more of the competitor's products than Anand,Tom's,... and co. put together - it helps you see where you stand in the field, where you should improve and of which strengths of your product you can focus in marketing. 
http://www.amd.com/us/products/serve...ks-filter.aspx (i would be surprised if they did not verify the intel results here).

Hah, just remembered VW's Martin Winterkorn - "I hear nothing!" Winterkorn said about the absence of any rattles while adjusting the steering wheel. "How did they do it? while hiking on a Hyundai"

JF-AMD who am i to judge the naming policy of AMD - You say it's a core hell it's your product not mine - so amen on that. My bias is based on shared (I simply hate this word when it's about resources) elements and lack to perform more than 4 256bit FP's + the slide from AMD where it says it has 80% the performance of 2 autonomous cores.


----------



## Bloitz

Not so much on-topic (I don't think we'll get to know a lot more anyway) but how do they photograph those dies? Or are they computer-made?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Not so much on-topic (I don't think we'll get to know a lot more anyway) but how do they photograph those dies? Or are they computer-made?


http://www.chipworks.com/en/newsroom...on-art-library

Some interesting read on this site - those guys also sell AMD die shots and analysis for 22.000 (of an A4 or A6 i think)


----------



## crshbndct

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


2. If you were a customer and you found out that the "quad core", when using only 4 threads, could only use half of the integer pipelines, you'd be pissed, right? If you are only running 4 threads, you only get use of 4 cores, not 8.



To be honest, a customer (like, say my mum, or someone like that) when someone told them all that, would probably just get a migraine and ask - "is it better than the other one?"

to which the salesperson would reply, "well its (faster/faster per $/slower but much cheaper/no) and then my mum will decide to buy it or not and then proceed to call me up and complain her new pc is slower than her old one because the internet connection is slow and her facebook games dont load as fast.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crshbndct*


To be honest, a customer (like, say my mum, or someone like that) when someone told them all that, would probably just get a migraine and ask - "is it better than the other one?"

to which the salesperson would reply, "well its (faster/faster per $/slower but much cheaper/no) and then my mum will decide to buy it or not and then proceed to call me up and complain her new pc is slower than her old one because the internet connection is slow and her facebook games dont load as fast.


Bahahha


----------



## tvr

Yes most people think there computer is slow when Facebook won't work that is so true


----------



## StarDestroyer

all modern technology comes from aliens that monitor us from inside the MoonStar, why else would it always point at us

"that's no Moon, its a SPACE STATION"


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Not so much on-topic (I don't think we'll get to know a lot more anyway) but how do they photograph those dies? Or are they computer-made?


I am still awaiting to see that 16-core die shot that John has used as a desktop wallpaper







Can you share it yet John?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Remind me after interlagos launches and I will send you the wallpaper that I have used in the past with 16 glorious cores


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


all modern technology comes from aliens that monitor us from inside the MoonStar, why else would it always point at us

"that's no Moon, its a SPACE STATION"


Been reading Weber?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


I like how JF-AMD has been forth coming and honest at least admitting Intel has been dominating AMD for quite some time.


I don't think I said that. Source?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


JF-AMD, I know you don't comment on release date, But could you give us a time-frame of when you expect to actually release it?

Or tell us if we are close to seeing the release of bulldozer?

Oh, And do you have a Intel rig?







<< You don't have to answer that one if you don't want to, Understandable.

AMDrocks



Q4.

7 of the 8 computers in my house are AMD. The only intel is my wife's work notebook, but that only enters the house a few times a year.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


How much (if any) R&D testing does AMD do with Intels designs?

Do you guys do in house testing with Intel systems to see how yours compare?


Of course we compare to their systems, they do the same with ours.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


JF-AMD who am i to judge the naming policy of AMD - You say it's a core hell it's your product not mine - so amen on that. My bias is based on shared (I simply hate this word when it's about resources) elements and lack to perform more than 4 256bit FP's + the slide from AMD where it says it has 80% the performance of 2 autonomous cores.


1. Here is the extensive list of the 256-bit AVX supported client apps that I am aware of:

Maybe someone else can fill in the gap, I have seen none. Expect almost all of the 256-bit AVX in the HPC workspace. If you aren't saturating 128-bit SSE today, why would you recompile for AVX?

2. 2 cores in a module act like 180% vs ~190-195% for two independent cores. But in giving up the 10-15%, we are able to put 8 cores where you would normally have 6. That means 33% more cores for 10-15% overhead. Sounds like a good trade to me.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Not so much on-topic (I don't think we'll get to know a lot more anyway) but how do they photograph those dies? Or are they computer-made?


Not really sure. I know some of our die shots are off of actual dies because I see the raw shots, not sure about the fancy ones.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I am still awaiting to see that 16-core die shot that John has used as a desktop wallpaper







Can you share it yet John?


At launch


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tvr*


Yes most people think there computer is slow when Facebook won't work that is so true


That is what my mom says. She goes "The computer is running slow today, this is taking forever to go". Then I just face palm. That is probably most America though in terms of computer knowledge.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


1. Here is the extensive list of the 256-bit AVX supported client apps that I am aware of:

Maybe someone else can fill in the gap, I have seen none. Expect almost all of the 256-bit AVX in the HPC workspace. If you aren't saturating 128-bit SSE today, why would you recompile for AVX?

2. 2 cores in a module act like 180% vs ~190-195% for two independent cores. But in giving up the 10-15%, we are able to put 8 cores where you would normally have 6. That means 33% more cores for 10-15% overhead. Sounds like a good trade to me.


Thank you for the clarification, and i really hope programmers get to optimize software in the future to use all those cores and that the single thread performance of Bulldozer makes up for those 5-10% (+ the extra MHz from the new architecture due to clocking.)
Hope intel don't stop the 4+thread progress seeing them waste die-space for graphics instead of more cores on Ivy.

btw, i want to see Bulldozer Farmville benchmarks


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


all modern technology comes from aliens that monitor us from inside the MoonStar, why else would it always point at us

"that's no Moon, its a SPACE STATION"


Better be careful there, I think that info is also under a NDA.


----------



## RhysLadhani

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lem18*


What were you planning on upgrading your i7-920 to? From what I've seen around on the web, Sandy Bridge (Intel's next architecture) is coming in two new sockets (LGA1155 and LGA2011). More chance of an upgrade with AMD. 1090T, do it







(yes I'm an AMD fan)


The LGA1155 socket really isnt that new. It's been around for a year if not more. Most of the new SBs haven't changed since they were first announced. Now, I haven't heard about LGA2011; is that the next gen SB or what? I work at Fry's Electronics and we don't have any LGA2011 CPUs. Shed any light on that?


----------



## flashtest

Erm, this post is from a year ago, that maybe explains why 1155 is not that new








Check http://www.guru3d.com/article/sandy-...d-x79-preview/ or any random X79 preview article to get more info on the LGA2011.

Edit: Cause i hate double posts - Looks like Fud also jumped on the 12 Oct bandwagon
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/24...er-12-1800-cet


----------



## tvr

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


That is what my mom says. She goes "The computer is running slow today, this is taking forever to go". Then I just face palm. That is probably most America though in terms of computer knowledge.


The mother in laws pc needed a new install only the other week, she had this little bit of paper saying save all my photos off facebook please







what ever for I said?, she replied well I don't won't to lose them when you wipe the computer Lmao, I then went on to try and explain that her photos are not actually stored on the computer, anyway what I am saying is she got her computer from a catalogue and didn't take my advice at all. Oh by the way I am from the UK. And there is a lot of people like her that just don't know about computers


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tvr*


The mother in laws pc needed a new install only the other week, she had this little bit of paper saying save all my photos off facebook please







what ever for I said?, she replied well I don't won't to lose them when you wipe the computer Lmao, I then went on to try and explain that her photos are not actually stored on the computer, anyway what I am saying is she got her computer from a catalogue and didn't take my advice at all. Oh by the way I am from the UK. And there is a lot of people like her that just don't know about computers


Yep - most normal users buy from the mail-in catalog, taking the thing with most cores/GB/Monitor size for the money that fits them - The second time they eventually ask a tech savvy friend.

btw, next time ignore the explaining - just say - it's done automatically







saved me a lot of PC explanations and it's actually not that inaccurate.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


.../snip

At launch


Woot! Desktop wallpaper of kings!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Woot! Desktop wallpaper of kings!



Agreed. I cannot wait to see it


----------



## flashtest

Doh, this just came in on the news - see no benchmarks make people go crazy! http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pur...len-bulldozer/ If you had lifted the NDA on the 1'st that would not happen!


----------



## tvr

^^^^^
Lmao


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15175705*
> Doh, this just came in on the news - see no benchmarks make people go crazy! http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pursuit/articles/4449866-Video-Cops-chase-man-possessed-on-stolen-bulldozer/ If you had lifted the NDA on the 1'st that would not happen!












flashtest you let me down....I would expect something this from radaja.


----------



## StepanPepan

Presskit (from Obr.):


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*
> Presskit (from Obr.):


About time already....


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*
> Presskit (from Obr.):
> .../snip


so this means that obr never broke an NDA







. lmao.

does this mean reviews soon from other reviewers?

*I want a press kit*


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*
> Presskit (from Obr.):


I'm convinced you're OBR, now put up some REAL benches already.


----------



## el gappo

I can't believe people still send that tool stuff.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15177083*
> I can't believe people still send that tool stuff.


they didnt,its his friends


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15177116*
> they didnt,its his friends


Thats my line of thinking as well.


----------



## Benz

Eight days remaining people... Eight days.


----------



## Atham

80 Days? Where did you find that out?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15177048*
> so this means that obr never broke an NDA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . lmao.
> 
> does this mean reviews soon from other reviewers?
> 
> *I want a press kit*


It means that assuming most major reviewers got one, we're probably about 1-2 weeks from release.


----------



## HothBase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*


Nooo! It has a hole in it!
I wanted to use this thing for keeping... stuff...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15177142*
> Eight days remaining people... Eight days.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham;15177154*
> 80 Days? Where did you find that out?


This is how rumors get started.









I hope Bulldozer's release *isn't* the same as the iPhone 5 4S release.

Over-hype and under-deliver.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15176872*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flashtest you let me down....I would expect something this from radaja.


what me?

speaking of press kits,i got mine today as well,im so freaking excited
*Whoopee!! it's here it's here!!*


----------



## Benz

I didn't say 80, did I say 80?


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15177080*
> I'm convinced you're OBR, now put up some REAL benches already.


I am not. You can tell that from by advanced English, it is much more better than his. I am English Master!









I think he already published some real numbers, but nobody believes me. I posted some numbers from him on semiaccurate yesterday, people went crazy about Obr. and thread was closed. It is very dangerous to mention his numbers, it causes troubles.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177325*
> I think *I* already published some real numbers, but nobody believes me.


Fixed!


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177325*
> I am not. You can tell that from by advanced English, it is much more better than his. I am English Master!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he already published some real numbers, but nobody believes me. I posted some numbers from him on semiaccurate yesterday, people went crazy about Obr. and thread was closed. It is very dangerous to mention his numbers, it causes troubles.


Oh God...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15177311*
> I didn't say 80, did I say 80?


ha ha, I know you didn't, that's why I said "this is how rumors get started"


----------



## kchris

There's a reason why AMD and their reps are keeping so hush-hush about Bulldozer: They're embarrassed of it. They don't want to humiliate themselves by posting numbers of their processor which was so hyped and which they invested so much into. When you find out that your parents are buying you a new bike, make sure it is good before you brag about it, otherwise after you get it you're going to just have to hide it in your garage when your friends ask if they can see it.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15177160*
> It means that assuming most major reviewers got one, we're probably about 1-2 weeks from release.


yay! now I can wrap my feeble mind over actual reviews when i need a new rig!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15177493*
> There's a reason why AMD and their reps are keeping so hush-hush about Bulldozer: They're embarrassed of it. They don't want to humiliate themselves by posting numbers of their processor which was so hyped and which they invested so much into. When you find out that your parents are buying you a new bike, make sure it is good before you brag about it, otherwise after you get it you're going to just have to hide it in your garage when your friends ask if they can see it.












I think this thread has had enough doom and gloom.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15177493*
> There's a reason why AMD and their reps are keeping so hush-hush about Bulldozer: They're embarrassed of it. They don't want to humiliate themselves by posting numbers of their processor which was so hyped and which they invested so much into. When you find out that your parents are buying you a new bike, make sure it is good before you brag about it, otherwise after you get it you're going to just have to hide it in your garage when your friends ask if they can see it.


What are you babbling on about ?

I think the only reason AMD would be embarrassed is knowing people like you buy them,
You own Amd but yet you slate them go figure !!


----------



## StepanPepan

...


----------



## Fr0sty

i sense a review comming soon


----------



## goldcrow

Don't you fail me now AMD! I've been loyal to you except for this Q6600. And a P3. Oh and some others.

Kidding aside, they better deliver at least within 10% of SB for me to sway back to them. I'm rooting for them to get back to the glory days of A64.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15177656*
> I think the only reason AMD would be embarrassed is knowing people like you buy them


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwYVWQsXmQ[/ame]


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15177610*










This one made my day Ö= Thank you.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15177083*
> I can't believe people still send that tool stuff.


Be careful, I got an infraction for insulting OBR.


----------



## Obakemono

I should give myself an infraction just for reading this thread everyday.....


----------



## kchris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15177656*
> What are you babbling on about ?
> 
> I think the only reason AMD would be embarrassed is knowing people like you buy them,
> You own Amd but yet you slate them go figure !!


Actually I don't use my sig rig anymore but its the last rig I built about two years ago and I don't feel like updating mainly because I don't own a desktop. Right now I'm using some Intel laptop for school. I was hoping to get some gaming in with SC2 over this summer with a new rig but Bulldozer let me down in June when I had all my other parts ready for it. And that was bad cuz I sold my previous rig to pay for all that stuff. My new mobo/cooler/ram etc which I bought months ago for the new rig have already been returned and that was the last time I'm buying anything from AMD again.


----------



## flashtest

I like this thread, it's one of the cleanest and most polite ones - others forums i visit sometimes are full of insults from AMD vs intel fan boys, actually i like the more mature discussion here, Jeff's clarifications and the lack of full of hate posts also helps.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15177610*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this thread has had enough doom and gloom.


+1 - very well put.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15178011*
> I like this thread, it's one of the cleanest and most polite ones - others forums i visit sometimes are full of insults from AMD vs intel fan boys, actually i like the more mature discussion here, Jeff's clarifications and the lack of full of hate posts also helps.


who's this jeff i keep hearing about?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15178011*
> I like this thread, it's one of the cleanest and most polite ones - others forums i visit sometimes are full of insults from AMD vs intel fan boys, actually i like the more mature discussion here, Jeff's clarifications and the lack of full of hate posts also helps.


It's so clean because the mods are always in here deleting all the bad posts.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15178011*
> I like this thread, it's one of the cleanest and most polite ones - others forums i visit sometimes are full of insults from AMD vs intel fan boys, actually i like the more mature discussion here, Jeff's clarifications and the lack of full of hate posts also helps.


.....you meant John? LOL


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15178011*
> I like this thread, it's one of the cleanest and most polite ones - others forums i visit sometimes are full of insults from AMD vs intel fan boys, actually i like the more mature discussion here, Jeff's clarifications and the lack of full of hate posts also helps.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15178293*
> It's so clean because the mods are always in here deleting all the bad posts.


/\ this x 100. The mods are very diligent with this very public thread. A LOT of posts have been deleted.


----------



## Jesse D

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15175705*
> Doh, this just came in on the news - see no benchmarks make people go crazy! http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pursuit/articles/4449866-Video-Cops-chase-man-possessed-on-stolen-bulldozer/ If you had lifted the NDA on the 1'st that would not happen!


I really hope that AMD's bulldozer release holds up to its name, unlike this video...

*hint* thats NOT a bulldozer


----------



## goldcrow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15178107*
> who's this jeff i keep hearing about?


Must be John's evil twin working for Intel.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goldcrow;15178500*
> Must be John's evil twin working for Intel.


Got me here sorry about that, of course i meant John Fruehe (JF is pronounced Je eff in my native) - so yeah.... Sorry


----------



## kahboom

When will it be shipped on the 12th or will it be shipping out to the vendors on the 12th?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15178559*
> When will it be shipped on the 12th or will it be shipping out to the vendors on the 12th?


Hopefully available for purchase on the 12th


----------



## Evil Penguin

Well...
I'm buying whichever comes first (I'll have to wait for more funds afterward).
iPhone 4s or FX 8150p.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15177493*
> There's a reason why AMD and their reps are keeping so hush-hush about Bulldozer: They're embarrassed of it. They don't want to humiliate themselves by posting numbers of their processor which was so hyped and which they invested so much into. When you find out that your parents are buying you a new bike, make sure it is good before you brag about it, otherwise after you get it you're going to just have to hide it in your garage when your friends ask if they can see it.


Lets face facts, even if it beats a 2600k, it'll still be unable to live up to the hype...

I put it as being a bit slower clock for clock, unless over ~6 cores are used, but the average OC being higher than SB by enough to be equal.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15177227*
> what me?
> 
> speaking of press kits,i got mine today as well,im so freaking excited
> *Whoopee!! it's here it's here!!*


LOL see







It is your common radaja shenanigans
















I also want a press kit I want that tin like in my avatar or belt buckle or whatever it is


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15177468*
> ha ha, I know you didn't, that's why I said "this is how rumors get started"


Well not exactly, word is that the launch date will happen on October 12 so technically it wasn't my rumor.


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15178903*
> Lets face facts, even if it beats a 2600k, it'll still be unable to live up to the hype...
> 
> I put it as being a bit slower clock for clock, unless over ~6 cores are used, but the average OC being higher than SB by enough to be equal.


Hype? ... well if you have only read a tiny tiny bit about bd and have only read that from some press releases ...
But practically all the leaked stuff in the past few months have been placing BD below 2600k and often 2500k ...

IMO if BD comes close to the 2600k it has done its job and IMO will be a job well done. Especially if they beat intel at the price point (which they almost always do).


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*
> Presskit (from Obr.):


If this isnt the preetiest thing I have seen all day (dont tell the wife) ...

- I wonder what asus had to do to include their crosshair in the kit ...
(I think Im going with a asrock if the bd scores well).


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15178739*
> Well...
> I'm buying whichever comes first (I'll have to wait for more funds afterward).
> iPhone 4s or FX 8150p.


Your actually going to waste money on the 4S?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15178903*
> Lets face facts, even if it beats a 2600k, it'll still be unable to live up to the hype...
> 
> I put it as being a bit slower clock for clock, unless over ~6 cores are used, but the average OC being higher than SB by enough to be equal.


Don't forget the 100$ price difference according to some sources if it keeps up with 2600k and goes for this money it's a winner for me.

Btw, i think that only a small portion of the market that's into the hype - most people actually care more about the new iPhone (just saw a 5min report about it on national TV).

but else yea - i agree with you, i am still thinking it will be slower than 2500/2600 core to core (winning by a lot in exotic (for the desktop) places like encryption or something else) and owning it in heavy threaded workloads (not current games thou).


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15179036*
> Your actually going to waste money on the 4S?


My current phone is the iPhone 3GS.
The 4S would be a very nice upgrade in my opinion.
On second thought, I think I will be able to get both soon.


----------



## Vrait

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15179188*
> My current phone is the iPhone 3GS.
> The 4S would be a very nice upgrade in my opinion.
> On second thought, I think I will be able to get both soon.


Ew, Iphone. Should get a Droid Bionic. There is nothing an Iphone can do, that a droid can't do better.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15179188*
> My current phone is the iPhone 3GS.
> The 4S would be a very nice upgrade in my opinion.
> On second thought, I think I will be able to get both soon.


Personally i would have went with an Iphone if it had LTE but ofcourse apple doesn't seem to think it needs it. I love my Bionic but it does have some issues


----------



## macca_dj

Q4 that gives a total of 3 months so release could happen anytime within this period,
But because its Q4 everyone expects release in the early part of the Q4 period,
BD launches when Amd are ready for launch everything around the internet is just plain old speculation and rumour,

Now for all the people complaining that they have sent their products back because Amd have not yet released BD Patience is probably what you are lacking,

I myself would rather have a processor in my system that has been through the testing and is a capable candidate,

There are no real world benchmarks available as of yet as the chip is not yet available to the masses as before rumour and speculation is all that's been going around the web with fanboyism from some of the Intel clan and others that are just trolling,

If you believe everything you read on the web then more fool you,

I am going to be watching out for benchmark results as much as the next person but then I also want to run my own benchmarks to,
I am not going to be basing my purchase on charts that have been compiled by others,


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vrait;15179318*
> Ew, Iphone. Should get a Droid Bionic. There is nothing an Iphone can do, that a droid can't do better.


I forgot to mention that I'm on AT&T.
It's pretty much the Galaxy S II or the 4S.


----------



## Bloitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StepanPepan;15177016*
> Presskit (from Obr.):
> ... loads of images already quoted above...


Doesn't look like a closed loop watercooler fits in that box.

Does make me feel worthless... I actually had to save some money for my motherboard and AMD is just giving them away... (probably sponsored by Asus)

What happens afterwards with them I wonder? E-bay? Storage?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15179433*
> Now for all the people complaining that they have sent their products back because Amd have not yet released BD Patience is probably what you are lacking,


Many people actually NEED a processor for daily tasks. When expectations are built and not met, it seems completely logical to me to look at other options.
Quote:


> I myself would rather have a processor in my system that has been through the testing and is a capable candidate,


So the past year has been spent "testing" their processors? Yeah right.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


So the past year has been spent *"improving"* their processors? Yeah right.


Fixed it for you


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Well not exactly, word is that the launch date will happen on October 12 so technically it wasn't my rumor.










I was strictly talking about eight turning into 80

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vrait*


Ew, Iphone. Should get a Droid Bionic. There is nothing an Iphone can do, that a droid can't do better.


Cough Nexus Prime Cough

Next Tuesday should be very interesting.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Many people actually NEED a processor for daily tasks. When expectations are built and not met, it seems completely logical to me to look at other options.


Yeah I'm disappointed that the 8core BD cpus will not be able to meet my needed daily tasks. I mean, it can't mow the yard, or do laundry, or wash the car, or cook dinner, vacuum the carpet, take out the trash, sweep the sidewalk or give me a foot massage.









OT: I can wait for BD. Period. It will be well worth it IMO.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman23*


Many people actually NEED a processor for daily tasks. When expectations are built and not met, it seems completely logical to me to look at other options.

*That's Quite funny what were they using before BD was announced ?*

So the past year has been spent "testing" their processors? Yeah right.


Did I say year ? I thought you as an Audiophile would appreciate the time and effort that goes in to designing new tech / architecture,

And another point who built the expectations up Amd or the chitter chatter around the web or is it a case of the persons who are anxious about the forth coming release,

Also I love the way people only pull out the sentences others write without taking the whole of the conversation in !!


----------



## Vrait

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I forgot to mention that I'm on AT&T. 
It's pretty much the Galaxy S II or the 4S.


That does limit your choices, but If I were you I would wait and see what android phones are out at the time that Iphone5 releases.

On topic: We better be seeing some good results soon.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Fixed it for you










That's what he said, not me.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Yeah I'm disappointed that the 8core BD cpus will not be able to meet my needed daily tasks. I mean, it can't mow the yard, or do laundry, or wash the car, or cook dinner, vacuum the carpet, take out the trash, sweep the sidewalk or give me a foot massage.









OT: I can wait for BD. Period. It will be well worth it IMO.


First of all, I never said they won't be able to meet your needs. But a processor you don't have certainly wont meet those needs







. Yet again you've read into my posts with an emotional need to defend AMD, and in doing so completely fabricated something to defend against. But your needs are your needs. I realize your irrational attachment to AMD will allow you to wait and endless period of time, but for those who live in the real world, waiting forever is not acceptable,possible, or an intelligent decision. Realistically, will BD provide an experience truly worth waiting that amount of time for? Even if it's 10% faster that SB in all areas (which would be a mircale in and of itself) the end user would hardly be able to tell the difference. You could've had that same performance a year ago.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


Did I say year ? I thought you as an Audiophile would appreciate the time and effort that goes in to designing new tech / architecture,

And another point who built the expectations up Amd or the chitter chatter around the web or is it a case of the persons who are anxious about the forth coming release,

Also I love the way people only pull out the sentences others write without taking the whole of the conversation in !!


I do, I'm a computer engineer









This is a field where waiting is futile, by the time you've waited for one thing, the next day there's going to be something faster. I think all three of those things you mentioned are the cause of (unrealistic?) expectations, but that was AMDs choice to market the chips in that way. So far it looks to be a mistake but time will tell the whole story I guess.


----------



## Stilldawn

Checking in again....

Anything new on this? Dates, performance etc? I havent checked in like 3 weeks...


----------



## Chico212

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stilldawn*


Checking in again....

Anything new on this? Dates, performance etc? I havent checked in like 3 weeks...


Oct 12 is the launch date been thrown around now.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Stilldawn*


Checking in again....

Anything new on this? Dates, performance etc? I havent checked in like 3 weeks...


See my sig.









By now you should know that we won't know those thing until the day of launch.


----------



## emersonsc

I really agree with many others on here that this topic BADLY needs to be locked. I say lock it until there is an OFFICIAL launch date. just my 2 cents...


----------



## StarDestroyer

HEY AMD-JF

I see Ferrari have the AMD logo on their F1 car, does a sales rep or someone get to go hang out at the Ferrari factory when selling them a bunch of processors, and no doubt they use both server and desktop chips


----------



## xodsxboi215x

http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...er-12-1800-cet


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vrait*


Ew, Iphone. Should get a Droid Bionic. There is nothing an Iphone can do, that a droid can't do better.


I carry an iphone and I can tell you as someone who spends a third of his life outside of the US and in aluminum tubes hurtling through the sky, I love an iphone. I used to carry camera, GPS, ipod and blackberry. One tool does it all. Millions of apps. Say what you will about hardware, but when it comes to the apps that you run, nothing can hold a candle to apple. I am on a 3GS (that I bought myself even though I could have a free BB), the 4S looks really interesting.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


HEY AMD-JF

I see Ferrari have the AMD logo on their F1 car, does a sales rep or someone get to go hang out at the Ferrari factory when selling them a bunch of processors, and no doubt they use both server and desktop chips


I have been to the ferarri factory in Maranello, Italy, quite impressive. Teh F1 team uses Opteron for all of their simulations and modeling.


----------



## StraightSixZ

o boy hope I get a job by next month


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have been to the ferarri factory in Maranello, Italy, quite impressive. Teh F1 team uses Opteron for all of their simulations and modeling.



would be fun to use ferrari's experience and name to amd's advantage in some media campain if ferrari wants of course and if amd can afford a big media campain


----------



## Heavy MG

AMD FX Ferrari edition?


----------



## Canis-X

^ Ohhhhhh I like the sound of that!!!! Make it so JF! LOL


----------



## JF-AMD

Apparently one of the guys I have been biking with for 10 years is the head of support for EA and he is all wrapped up in the battlefield 3 thing. We generally don't talk business much but that fell out over a couple of beers last weekend after riding.

He seems to think it is going to be the coolest game ever. I told him he needs to buy some bulldozers to run it.

Kinda funny how in this town you have lots of good friends and you really don't know that much about what they do. He just knows I am a processor guy.


----------



## willistech

BF3 is fun, but there are other titles that I think will be more exciting. I enjoy single player content as much as the online experience. So I hope they don't flake on that.


----------



## ALUCARDVPR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I carry an iphone and I can tell you as someone who spends a third of his life outside of the US and in aluminum tubes hurtling through the sky, I love an iphone. I used to carry camera, GPS, ipod and blackberry. One tool does it all. Millions of apps. Say what you will about hardware, but when it comes to the apps that you run, nothing can hold a candle to apple. I am on a 3GS (that I bought myself even though I could have a free BB), the 4S looks really interesting.


^This, I had a iPhone 3G, and now a iPhone 4 - won't be upgrading this time around, but when I do it will most likely me an iPhone. I find it hilarious that people gripe about Apple products updating so quickly, but how many Droids are there now? 8-9?


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have been to the ferarri factory in Maranello, Italy, quite impressive. Teh F1 team uses Opteron for all of their simulations and modeling.


nice, F1 teams use a ton of CPU power, especially the rich ones


----------



## KyadCK

As someone who entered the world of Android, I will always stick with it. The ability to flash a new rom whenever I want, the ability to OC 50% (and probably more next rom update), all the settings I can tweak and a lovely 4.3" screen my seemingly massive thumbs can type on.

So the tin box for the CPU is real then? That just screams quality over the usual paper box. Even if it has nothing to do with the CPU performance itself, it is a nice touch.


----------



## Usario

I missed 60 pages of this thread.

I just skimmed through the first 10 and the last 5 I missed.

Do not want to waste time.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I missed 60 pages of this thread.

I just skimmed through the first 10 and the last 5 I missed.

Do not want to waste time.


Bulldozer launched on page 17 that you missed. We still don't have benchmarks though. Don't ask me why, it's explained on page 24 that you missed.

Start reading.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ALUCARDVPR*


^This, I had a iPhone 3G, and now a iPhone 4 - won't be upgrading this time around, but when I do it will most likely me an iPhone. I find it hilarious that people gripe about Apple products updating so quickly, but how many Droids are there now? 8-9?


Don't want to turn this into an iPhone thread, but really, no one is griping that Apple updates their products so quickly, it's the contrary.

After 18 months the best they came up with is the same iPhone 4 design, with an updated CPU, updated camera, IOS 5, a cool voice recognition app, and iCloud? We were all expecting the iPhone 5 with an improved slimmer design, bigger screen, etc, after all the hype released the past few months.

This discussion can be continued here.


----------



## Canis-X

I just got a Samsung Galaxy SII Epic 4G Touch and I love it!!! For its size it is really light-weight and has a huge screen. Dual 1.2Ghz proc.....5 steps to root it.....yep....love it!!!


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Bulldozer launched on page 17 that you missed. We still don't have benchmarks though. Don't ask me why, it's explained on page 24 that you missed.

Start reading.


I might've been fooled if I wasn't posting in a thread on /g/ yesterday full of people (including myself) complaining about the delays and making related rage comics.

Nice try, though, if it weren't for 4chan you would've gotten me.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


I just got a Samsung Galaxy SII Epic 4G Touch and I love it!!! For its size it is really light-weight and has a huge screen. Dual 1.2Ghz proc.....5 steps to root it.....yep....love it!!!


Off-topic, but iPhone 4S has a beast GPU


----------



## Vrait

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I carry an iphone and I can tell you as someone who spends a third of his life outside of the US and in aluminum tubes hurtling through the sky, I love an iphone. I used to carry camera, GPS, ipod and blackberry. One tool does it all. Millions of apps. Say what you will about hardware, but when it comes to the apps that you run, nothing can hold a candle to apple. I am on a 3GS (that I bought myself even though I could have a free BB), the 4S looks really interesting.

.



But Android has just as many quality apps, without the choking hand of Apple holding it back. And nevertheless the fact that Droids never break. Yet I see Iphones screen shatter all the time. Not hating on the actual product. I just don't like Apple's business model. And now because of that model, they are loosing big time to Google.

PS- My dad owns both an Iphone 4, and an Ipad 2. I despise them. I really truly enjoy my Droid and Zoom a lot more.


----------



## StepanPepan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


who's this jeff i keep hearing about?


*J*e*F*f from *AMD*. "JF" has strong Jeffical appeal.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Apparently one of the guys I have been biking with for 10 years is the head of support for EA and he is all wrapped up in the battlefield 3 thing. We generally don't talk business much but that fell out over a couple of beers last weekend after riding.

He seems to think it is going to be the coolest game ever. I told him he needs to buy some bulldozers to run it.

Kinda funny how in this town you have lots of good friends and you really don't know that much about what they do. He just knows I am a processor guy.


Cheers on that - finally a PC game that uses the PC's resources and that from EA - quite happy to be honest,
I am at rage about id's Rage - what a console port...

By some Bulldozers you mean for the game or for the dedicated Servers? (afaik they (will)use RSP-s for hosting - not directly inhouse).


----------



## Evil Penguin

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...893&CatId=7246
What's this?!


----------



## xd_1771

Looks like the entire lineup will be available for my local pickup at their Richmond BC warehouse at who knows when
The FX-4100 is super cheap at $125! That's cheap for Canada


----------



## Evil Penguin

*screams like a little school girl*
I want me a Bulldozer!

Not in stock yet. 
They probably haven't updated their inventory yet.


----------



## xd_1771

Me thinks $110-120 release for the FX-4100 in the USA, considering these prices at PCCanada...


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Me thinks $110-120 release for the FX-4100 in the USA, considering these prices at PCCanada...


More than likely they will also unlock to hex/oct-cores too. 
Sell like hot-cakes.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...893&CatId=7246
What's this?!


hmmmm, according to Google, this item was posted September 12. Maybe it's referring to the Mobo listing, but there are reviews from August on there.

We're getting closer though.



Bring on the benchmarks!


----------



## mav451

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...893&CatId=7246
What's this?!


Heh ships in 7-21 days. And that puts it exactly on Oct 12th.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav451*


Heh ships in 7-21 days. And that puts it exactly on Oct 12th.


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...0&sku=B69-5416
That one is within 24 hours "usually".


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Me thinks $110-120 release for the FX-4100 in the USA, considering these prices at PCCanada...


$110-120? Awesome! For the price of a SB dual core you could get a fully unlocked quad core CPU.


----------



## xd_1771

^ Yeah Bottom Line Telecommunications has them up for $121 for the retail box.


----------



## Evil Penguin

So... Should there be a news thread for this?









Edit:
Hilbert over at Guru3D received his review sample of BD already. 
Yep, BD is coming out this month.


----------



## Revained Mortal

I'll have to pick up a 8150 around Christmas and get a trinity laptop next year for school. I am really excited now because I want to see some delicious benchmarks already.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


AMD FX Ferrari edition?


Ewww screw this.









AMD FX VTEC Edition.


----------



## djxput

damn wondering what the markup in the uk will be and when they will have them ...

Might have to order from my mom in the states and have her ship to me.

starting to feel alot like christmas


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


who's this jeff i keep hearing about?


You're Jeff Vader?


----------



## totallynotshooped

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


AMD FX Ferrari edition?


Maybe something like the ASUS Lamboroginhi.. BUT AMD SUPPORTED.
Something like HD7000 series with FX-8150M (If AMD is making mobile versions of FX.) The HP/Asus ferrari? keeping in with the whole red theme...


----------



## Obakemono

Who here will go for the 8120?


----------



## Benz

*<----*


----------



## Russ369

As long as this gives me roughly the same performance as a 2nd gen i7 i'd be happy... cmon 8150!


----------



## IndicaNights

going 8150 here ! been waiting and waiting and reading and waiting !


----------



## Benz

Yeah, you me and everyone else.







But they're finally here, so at least be happy about that.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...893&CatId=7246
What's this?!


finally









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Ewww screw this.









AMD FX VTEC Edition.










please someone make a turbo core just kicked in yo meme pic ?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Who here will go for the 8120?


if its 125watt ill bite for sure


----------



## creisti86

considering that gigabyte is selling motherboards with am3+ socket and 760G chipset like his one. Could they also be releasing bios updates supporting fx processors for AM3 boards, even going back to 7xx series?


----------



## mystikalrush

Unless they are doing a revision with that 760g using am3+ socket, theres no way to do this via bios update. There is 1 extra pin & socket hole for AM3+ cpus, so it wont fit in am3 boards.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...893&CatId=7246
What's this?!


OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

















































: wheee:


----------



## whitekidney

Don't know if troll or not.

Quote:


> US-based computer retailer Micro Center has confirmed the launch date of AMD's next-generation FX-Series processors based on the high-performance Bulldozer architecture, which are expected to arrive on October 12.
> 
> "AMD is launching their new AM3+ FX series processors on 10/12/11. We currently have a number of AM3 + compatible motherboards in stock. These motherboards will support the new AM3 + FX processors as well as legacy AM3 processors."
> 
> The initial launch will include six FX-Series processors, four of them featuring eight processing cores while the two other include six and respectively four cores.
> 
> The fastest of these upcoming chips is called the FX-8150 and it sports a base frequency of 3.6GHz, a maximum Turbo frequency of 4.2GHz, 8MB of Level 2 cache memory, and has a TDP of 125W.
> 
> Right bellow this CPU stands the FX-8120 that also packs eight processing cores and other similar features, but comes clocked at 3.1GHz (4GHz in Turbo mode).
> 
> The FX-8120 will also be the only AMD FX-Series processor to be available in two different SKUs, one featuring a 125W TDP while the other is a 95W part.
> 
> The three remaining processors are the FX-8100, which has a base frequency of 2.8GHz and a maximum Turbo frequency of 3.7GHz, the six-core FX-6100 with a 3.3GHz base speed, 3.8GHz Turbo and 6MB of Level 2 cache memory and the quad-core FX-4100, which is clocked at 3.6GHz and can reach 3.8GHz when Turbo Core is active.


Source


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yay the end of the speculation is near. \







/

It's going to be a lot easier to compare physical cores than it was mythical ones.


----------



## conzilla

What does everyone think the release of BD will do to the price of current x4 and x6 lineup.
Could we see a x6 for sub 100 dollars.


----------



## tvr

Now time to crush the 2600k. That would be my cake and eating it. Anyone with me on this


----------



## MalVeauX

Hey guys,

I've not been following any of the bulldozer stuff but now that it's finally releasing quite soon, I'm interested. I'll get an 8 core for sure. That'll be fun for encoding and folding.

Question. Will the *GA-990XA-UD3* support the 8 core bulldozer?

Thanks.

Very best,


----------



## davieg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MalVeauX;15186293*
> Hey guys,
> 
> I've not been following any of the bulldozer stuff but now that it's finally releasing quite soon, I'm interested. I'll get an 8 core for sure. That'll be fun for encoding and folding.
> 
> Question. Will the *GA-990XA-UD3* support the 8 core bulldozer?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Very best,


I'd hope so as that was the reason it was made.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mystikalrush;15185803*
> There is 1 extra pin & socket hole for AM3+ cpus, so it wont fit in am3 boards.


Thats been done to death, theres even pics out from yesterday showing that it will fit in an AM3 socket.


----------



## 12Cores

Its looks like Bulldozer will finally launch this month, hopefully I can run a FX-8120 on my current board.

This is fantastic news!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tvr;15186268*
> Now time to crush the 2600k. That would be my cake and eating it. Anyone with me on this


Hopes are alittle too high IMO.

Crush 2500K yes but not the 2600K


----------



## YangerD

Hey guys, so I haven't been following the news and all. I'm just wondering are final specs out for the chips yet?


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15186336*
> Hopes are alittle too high IMO.
> 
> Crush 2500K yes but not the 2600K


Give me only one reason why not. You've placed Intel on such a high pedestal that you can't even consider it. You seriously think Intel is unbeatable don't you?


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15186441*
> Give me only one reason why not. You've placed Intel on such a high pedestal that you can't even consider it. You seriously think Intel is unbeatable don't you?


Highly doubt it will beat a 2600k. You're placing AMD on a high pedstal when we've been behind for a looooooong time.


----------



## kevink82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15186441*
> Give me only one reason why not. You've placed Intel on such a high pedestal that you can't even consider it. You seriously think Intel is unbeatable don't you?


Pretty simple because it reality if it is good the price tag will reflect that, same reason guys at porsche wont sell you their cheapest car the same price as a hyundai one.....

But im buying one though since the overclocking seems pretty fun and challenging compare to the fsb locked sandy bridge


----------



## j0zef

As long as it approaches (~5%) 2500k at similar speeds in today's everyday tasks, I'm getting one. Most things today are not optimized for that amount of cores, so it should be a good future proof chip for those who don't upgrade every 5 months.


----------



## CarlosSpiceyWeiner

So much speculation. Just wait for the thing to be released before you argue!!

AMD FTW though


----------



## Nocturin

Time for a countdown!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Predictions?

8150 is 10-15% faster than the i7-2600k in multithreaded workloads.

i7-2600k is 30-40% faster than the 8150 in workloads that use 4 or less cores.

Overclocking will probably be pretty even, with the advantage going to Intel on lower end cooling and the advantage going to 8150 on higher end, water and above.


----------



## Canis-X

ISitedBigTime!!!


----------



## bern43

Sounds like reviewers have these in hand. Some pics of the supposed press-kit floating around on some otherwise less than reliable website.


----------



## Brutuz

My guess on this is
Multi-threaded scenarios: Beats 2600k by a decent margin
Single-threaded/under 4 cores scenarios: Slower than 2600k/2500k by a small margin.
OC: OCs ~500Mhz higher than SB on average
Single threaded/Under 4 cores with average OC scenario: Equal to 2500k/2600k, due to higher core clock.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15186800*
> Predictions?
> 
> 8150 is 10-15% faster than the i7-2600k in multithreaded workloads.
> 
> i7-2600k is 30-40% faster than the 8150 in workloads that use 4 or less cores.
> 
> Overclocking will probably be pretty even, with the advantage going to Intel on lower end cooling and the advantage going to 8150 on higher end, water and above.


I'm game. (first two are clock for clock)

1) 8150 is 5-10% faster than the 2600K in most 8 threaded workloads.
2) 2600K is always 20%-25% faster than the 8150 for 4 threads or less (taking into account for the up to 10% boost when modules are not sharing)
3) and the bold one... the 8150 outclocks the 2600K by 300-400MHz (on air) which helps close the gap

Happy with my 2600K, but I don't think FX will be huge flop.


----------



## Don Karnage

They're back up on BLT and the prices have increased










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15186441*
> Give me only one reason why not. You've placed Intel on such a high pedestal that you can't even consider it. You seriously think Intel is unbeatable don't you?


Because you can't go from last to first in one fell swoop. I'd love for BD to beat the 2600K but i just don't think its going to happen.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15186800*
> Overclocking will probably be pretty even, with the advantage going to Intel on lower end cooling and the advantage going to 8150 on higher end, water and above.


This is where i'm unsure. I still think SB will overclock higher on water/air but BD might surprise me.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15186800*
> Predictions?
> 
> 8150 is 10-15% faster than the i7-2600k in multithreaded workloads.
> 
> i7-2600k is 30-40% faster than the 8150 in workloads that use 4 or less cores.
> 
> Overclocking will probably be pretty even, with the advantage going to Intel on lower end cooling and the advantage going to 8150 on higher end, water and above.


This is close to what I believe what will happen. Although I do not think it will be 30-40% on 4 cores or less, closer to 10-15% on both sides.

We shall see soon. Hopefully *fingers crossed*


----------



## kevink82

Coolaler seems to have gotten himself a retail version of the 8130, memory overclocking is looking very promising but that is all he have released so far.

http://coolaler.com/showthread.php?t=274942

2133 on 16gig of ram installed


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevink82;15187244*
> Coolaler seems to have gotten himself a retail version of the 8130, memory overclocking is looking very promising but that is all he have released so far.
> 
> http://coolaler.com/showthread.php?t=274942
> 
> 2133 on 16gig of ram installed


Why is the TDP still reading 2xxw's? ES?


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15187189*
> They're back up on BLT and the prices have increased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because you can't go from last to first in one fell swoop. I'd love for BD to beat the 2600K but i just don't think its going to happen.
> 
> This is where i'm unsure. I still think SB will overclock higher on water/air but BD might surprise me.


Those prices are for the tray versions mostly - check out the difference in pricing on the 4 core tray versus box.


----------



## kevink82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15187281*
> Why is the TDP still reading 2xxw's? ES?


No idea but the correct reading is on the chipset name since it does not say es, maybe cpu-z needs a update or his motherboard needs a bios update?

Its probably a gigabyte board btw since his pass testing are mostly always on gigabyte i think they sponsor him in some ways.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15187193*
> This is close to what I believe what will happen. Although I do not think it will be 30-40% on 4 cores or less, closer to 10-15% on both sides.
> 
> We shall see soon. Hopefully *fingers crossed*


I just have a hard time believing it can go so evenly both ways.

HT cores vs Actual cores means more benefit in threaded, and more loss in less threaded.

Doesn't it? My logic has been pretty off these days, but it seems logical to me... HT is only roughly a 20% boost in performance over non HT cores.

Maybe 25-30% slower in apps using 4 cores or less?

lol did you guys notice the stepping? *OR*-*B*2


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15187337*
> I just have a hard time believing it can go so evenly both ways.
> 
> HT cores vs Actual cores means more benefit in threaded, and more loss in less threaded.
> 
> Doesn't it? My logic has been pretty off these days, but it seems logical to me... HT is only roughly a 20% boost in performance over non HT cores.
> 
> Maybe 25-30% slower in apps using 4 cores or less?
> 
> lol did you guys notice the stepping? *OR*-*B*2


Is B2 retail stepping?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15187369*
> Is B2 retail stepping?


No clue


----------



## black96ws6

Come on John, spill the beans! We know release date is < 2 weeks!









Look at what's starting to appear in retail channels!:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1375893&CatId=7246


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15187369*
> Is B2 retail stepping?


I think B2 was the stepping they moved too when there was issues with the previous one and it was hinted that this would be the stepping 'we' would get. All speculation of course since AMD seems to be tight lipped about everything.


----------



## black96ws6

Better link, this one says ships in 24 hours (not sure if I believe that):

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1375900&CatId=7246

Also note the FX-6100 price is listed at $189.99.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15187457*
> Come on John, spill the beans! We know release date is < 2 weeks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at what's starting to appear in retail channels!:
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1375893&CatId=7246


If they had an 8150 bundle with the crosshair I would go ahead and order


----------



## black96ws6

I want to see reviews first before I do that lol.

It's either going to be a Crosshair V + 8150 or a 2600k and Maximus Gene-Z or Extreme4


----------



## StarDestroyer

ever since the XP-38 came out their not in demand ???


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;15187329*
> Those prices are for the tray versions mostly - check out the difference in pricing on the 4 core tray versus box.


This makes no sense - why would a box be 60$ cheaper than a tray (are the boxes and cooler from depleted Uranium and someone is paying to get rid of it







)
Edit:

By the way about the performance when the CPU is running something optimized for 4 cores - does one core from each module take the workload (effectively giving all the shared cache to one of it's cores) or do 4 cores from 2 modules take the 4 threads. And how is it working out in terms of clock i.e. are we going to see wonders from TurboCore when only 4 cores are used.

This would be a dream - rendering - 4 modules run for max performance parallel load - gaming - 2 modules shut down increasing maxTDP headroom and Bulldozer clocks the remaining 2 modules on 5.5Ghz


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15187702*
> This makes no sense - why would a box be 60$ cheaper than a tray (are the boxes and cooler from depleted Uranium and someone is paying to get rid of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Tray prices are ALWAYS more expensive than boxed retailed versions. Don't ask me why they just always are.


----------



## willistech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15187702*
> This makes no sense - why would a box be 60$ cheaper than a tray (are the boxes and cooler from depleted Uranium and someone is paying to get rid of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


and who really cares its still less expensive than the i7


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15187545*
> I want to see reviews first before I do that lol.
> 
> It's either going to be a Crosshair V + 8150 or a 2600k and Maximus Gene-Z or Extreme4


you sound like me - not sure which mb to go with ... Im stuck on crosshair v, sabertoother 990fx, or asrock fatality or - which Im actually leaning toward the asrock 990fx extreme3 (new board not yet sold in the states) - pretty much just a trimmed down fatality (nice colors also).

errr now which one.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;15187726*
> Tray prices are ALWAYS more expensive than boxed retailed versions. Don't ask me why they just always are.


That's strange usually in Europe a tray AMD is 5Euro cheaper than a boxed one - not 60$ more.

btw cheers to Valencia








http://www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/69-cpustyrkrets/44339-amd-opteron-4200-och-3200-serier-avsloejade.html


----------



## kabj06

Somebody needs to try to fit one in an AM3 board! I need to know if I made a mistake or not!


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djxput;15187955*
> you sound like me - not sure which mb to go with ... Im stuck on crosshair v, sabertoother 990fx, or asrock fatality or - which Im actually leaning toward the asrock 990fx extreme3 (new board not yet sold in the states) - pretty much just a trimmed down fatality (nice colors also).
> 
> errr now which one.


Get the sabertooth. Performs the same as the Crosshair, minus some minor bells and whistles. Also, the crosshair seems to have some problems according to newegg reviews (25% with 1 star). Sabertooth is a solid board. Overclocks my 955 higher and more stable than the Crosshair III it replaced.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15188063*
> Get the sabertooth. Performs the same as the Crosshair, minus some minor bells and whistles. Also, the crosshair seems to have some problems according to newegg reviews (25% with 1 star). Sabertooth is a solid board. Overclocks my 955 higher and more stable than the Crosshair III it replaced.


Sabertooth is also ugly as sin. I'd take a crosshair over it with 50% negative reviews


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15188063*
> Get the sabertooth. Performs the same as the Crosshair, minus some minor bells and whistles. Also, the crosshair seems to have some problems according to newegg reviews (25% with 1 star). Sabertooth is a solid board. Overclocks my 955 higher and more stable than the Crosshair III it replaced.


i have the sabertooth..it's a nice board..that AsRock extreme4 or fatality looks good,too!







the sabertooth runs a 965 black more stable than the m4a89gtd pro i had..can achieve higher clocks,too


----------



## RussianJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15188110*
> Sabertooth is also ugly as sin. I'd take a crosshair over it with 50% negative reviews


Getting 140mhz more with same vcore vs old msi 890fx-gd70

Max overclock up 251mhz, same vcore. How can you beat that?

Get the ChVF. Only issue I have is the VRM/nb sink gets scorching hot (50c delta over ambient) without a fan aimed near it. Then again, my case is all h20 with no intakes near the sink.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianJ;15188176*
> Getting 140mhz more with same vcore vs old msi 890fx-gd70
> 
> Max overclock up 251mhz, same vcore. How can you beat that?
> 
> Get the ChVF. Only issue I have is the VRM/nb sink gets scorching hot (50c delta over ambient) without a fan aimed near it. Then again, my case is all h20 with no intakes near the sink.


I'm sure the sabertooth is a great board but i just can't get over the color scheme.


----------



## Schmuckley

pahahaha..umm..i'm not one to buy a motherboard for colors.umm..more like for.bulldozer compatibility and reliable power feed







maybe one would prefer THIS color scheme


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;15188346*
> pahahaha..umm..i'm not one to buy a motherboard for colors.umm..more like for.bulldozer compatibility and reliable power feed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe one would prefer THIS color scheme


TO be honest, with the case closed up, I'll never see it anyways.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15188110*
> Sabertooth is also ugly as sin. I'd take a crosshair over it with 50% negative reviews


I can barely see my board behind my 2 video cards, sound card and Silver Arrow.


----------



## gplnpsb

I believe this is the first clear unobscured image of the IHS markings of a retail boxed FX chip. Found in this chiphell thread. It appears to be part of press kit. The date code is 1136EPM, meaning that this chip was encapsulated in the 36th week of 2011, probably on or around Friday September 9.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I have been just so excited today that, I just want to go home early from work and start backing up everything on my current pc to get ready


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15188448*
> I believe this is the first clear unobscured image of the IHS markings of a retail boxed FX chip. Found in this chiphell thread. It appears to be part of press kit. The date code is 1136EPM, meaning that this chip was encapsulated in the 36th week of 2011, probably on or around Friday September 9.


Chiphell isnt loading for me


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15188448*
> The date code is 1136EPM, meaning that this chip was encapsulated in the 36th week of 2011, probably on or around Friday September 9.


I would love to know what stepping it has.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15188588*
> Chiphell isnt loading for me


Curious, the link is working on both of my computers, but then they're both on a university connection







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15188590*
> I would love to know what stepping it has.


The one coolaler has in the thread mentioned a few pages back is OR-B2. I'd be shocked if this is anything different.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15188725*
> The one coolaler has in the thread mentioned a few pages back is OR-B2. I'd be shocked if this is anything different.


I thought there was some talk about a C stepping? So it is still a B2 - wonder what OR stands for?

EDIT: I might be mixing up the stepping with Intel's...


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15188830*
> I thought there was some talk about a C stepping? So it is still a B2 - wonder what OR stands for?
> 
> EDIT: I might be mixing up the stepping with Intel's...


There was talk of it...but I'd guess that a full base layer respin to get to the Cx stepping would have taken too long.

There seems to be a lot of _talk_ lately that bulldozer's successor, Komodo has been replaced by Vishera. Supposedly this will be AM3+ using the piledriver cores that trinity is supposedly using. They may be working on getting those piledriver cores out rather than doing another stepping for bulldozer.

As for the OR prefix - maybe it stands for "Orochi" - the die code name? I've long wondered what the stepping prefixes like DR-Bx for Agena, RB-Cx for Deneb, BL-Cx for Propus, DA-Cx for Regor, HY-Dx for Istanbul, or PH-Ex for thuban mean. JF can you comment on this?


----------



## crshbndct

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mystikalrush;15185803*
> Unless they are doing a revision with that 760g using am3+ socket, theres no way to do this via bios update. There is 1 extra pin & socket hole for AM3+ cpus, so it wont fit in am3 boards.


I have one of those boards.. It is indeed an am3+ socket, pretty much teh gay for overclocking though.


----------



## bru_05

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;15188123*
> i have the sabertooth..it's a nice board..that AsRock extreme4 or fatality looks good,too!


I like my asrock extreme4 so far. I'm at 3.8 with 1.375v on my 955. (Hoping to put a BD on it...not sure which one tho) Looks pretty sharp too. I like the white/blue/black. I may have a cheesy phone pic of it in my case... If I find it I'll edit this.

Found it.


----------



## tmunn

Is this out yet? I want to see some benchmarks n stuffs.


----------



## soth7676

Good...my CHV CPU socket has been lonely and wants a mate to hook up with...LOL

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15187189*
> Because you can't go from last to first in one fell swoop. I'd love for BD to beat the 2600K but i just don't think its going to happen.


Yes I understand that you'd love that, and I'd love for SB-E to beat Bulldozer-E. We're all the same here, but why can't you go from the last to the first in one fell swoop? We all saw that they can with Athlon64.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;15187726*
> Tray prices are ALWAYS more expensive than boxed retailed versions. Don't ask me why they just always are.


They shouldn't. Boxed product has a 3-year warranty and can be warrantied by consumers. Tray product has a 1 year warranty and should only be warrantied through the OEM. At least that is how it works in server.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15188961*
> There was talk of it...but I'd guess that a full base layer respin to get to the Cx stepping would have taken too long.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of _talk_ lately that bulldozer's successor, Komodo has been replaced by Vishera. Supposedly this will be AM3+ using the piledriver cores that trinity is supposedly using. They may be working on getting those piledriver cores out rather than doing another stepping for bulldozer.
> 
> As for the OR prefix - maybe it stands for "Orochi" - the die code name? I've long wondered what the stepping prefixes like DR-Bx for Agena, RB-Cx for Deneb, BL-Cx for Propus, DA-Cx for Regor, HY-Dx for Istanbul, or PH-Ex for thuban mean. JF can you comment on this?


Can't comment on the stepping in launch, especially during quiet period.

OR = Orochi
DR = Deerhound
RB = Ridgeback
BL = Bloodhound
DA = Dachshund
HY = Hydra
PH = Pharoah hound

The dies are all dogs except Hydra. That one started as a server die first, remember that Thuban came out well after server.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Ewww screw this.









AMD FX VTEC Edition.










Lol wut.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


I thought there was some talk about a C stepping? So it is still a B2 - wonder what OR stands for?

EDIT: I might be mixing up the stepping with Intel's...


The stepping is still B2? Weren't B2 chips bad?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


They shouldn't. Boxed product has a 3-year warranty and can be warrantied by consumers. Tray product has a 1 year warranty and should only be warrantied through the OEM. At least that is how it works in server.

Can't comment on the stepping in launch, especially during quiet period.

OR = Orochi
DR = Deerhound
RB = Ridgeback
BL = Bloodhound
DA = Dachshund
HY = Hydra
PH = Pharoah hound

The dies are all dogs except Hydra. That one started as a server die first, remember that Thuban came out well after server.


Phenom II based chips are all dogs...not sure if that is bad or good.


----------



## newnub123

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2..._revealed.html nice nice or not ?


----------



## whitekidney

@Jf-AMD

You've got spilled FX all over your secret launch, can't you just... tell us already?


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Lol wut.

The stepping is still B2? Weren't B2 chips bad?

Phenom II based chips are all dogs...not sure if that is bad or good.


No B2 were the next in line chips because it was suggested the yield wasnt up to par.

Guess B2 is (else peeps wouldnt be getting em to review).


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


No B2 were the next in line chips because it was suggested the yield wasnt up to par.

Guess B2 is (else peeps wouldnt be getting em to review).


according to the rumor mill, b2g is the retail stepping. There have been a number of revisions in the BD stepping history. Doesn't mean anything one way or the other. Given it is a entirely new chip with all new everything, its not like that would be unexpected.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15185528*
> if its 125watt ill bite for sure


Affirm on that. The 8120 125watt cpu should oc like a beast.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MalVeauX;15186293*
> Hey guys,
> 
> I've not been following any of the bulldozer stuff but now that it's finally releasing quite soon, I'm interested. I'll get an 8 core for sure. That'll be fun for encoding and folding.
> 
> Question. Will the *GA-990XA-UD3* support the 8 core bulldozer?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Very best,


Yes, BUT (big one at that) check Gigabyte's website to verify what bios you have, as it seems that a bios update is needed to run FX processors on *ANY* AM3+ mobo. It means I prolly will need to flash my 990FX-UD7 when I build it. (makes me a bit nervous because I just bricked my brand new Llano mobo Sunday updating the bios)


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


It means I prolly will need to flash my 990FX-UD7 when I build it. (makes me a bit nervous because I just bricked my brand new Llano mobo Sunday updating the bios)


Oh! thats not good. I got some conflicting info I read and that people wouldnt need to flash to run bd. Although the uefi 1.44 sounds like its the best thing to upgrade too if your board doesnt have it.


----------



## Bloitz

I would update the BIOS anyways to be on the safe side


----------



## 2010rig

So, who is going to be the 1st brave person to get an FX 4100 and try to unlock it?


----------



## flashtest

I asked the same - think that JF-AMD stated that AM3+ should atleast boot Bulldozer with any bios 8xx/760 or any other AM3 mobos are not officially supported -so an update may/will be needed. - but if you have the option to update firmware on the 990 - do it before inserting the new chip









Edit: - that's the post i meant with the bios on am3+

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Sorry, can't comment on that because we only support BD in AM3+. If you put a BD in an AM3+ it will boot with no issue.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whitekidney*


@Jf-AMD

You've got spilled FX all over your secret launch, can't you just... tell us already?










If I had a job that let me hang with the Ferrari boys, drink sake in Korea, and lord knows what all else, and, if I was under an NDA from my employer - I would take that NDA seriously.


----------



## flashtest

To be honest if press kits are already out (and shipments appear in some sites) the NDA is indirectly for our sake only,
This way reviewers can bench the bully without being under pressure that another site publishes first - and we get more detailed benchmarks/tests.

I am almost sure that intel R&D already have a press kit to play with - due to some 'friendly' reviewer.

Wait is almost over - hope it was worth it


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


Oh! thats not good. I got some conflicting info I read and that people wouldnt need to flash to run bd. Although the uefi 1.44 sounds like its the best thing to upgrade too if your board doesnt have it.


Best advice is check on your specific mobo. I saw a statement in red on the website saying something about a bios update and FX processors for my mobo.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


I would update the BIOS anyways to be on the safe side


Yep.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I asked the same - think that JF-AMD stated that AM3+ should atleast boot Bulldozer with any bios 8xx/760 or any other AM3 mobos are not officially supported -so an update may/will be needed. - but if you have the option to update firmware on the 990 - do it before inserting the new chip









Edit: - that's the post i meant with the bios on am3+


I guess it will all depend on what is released by what manufacturer for support of the non- AM3+/9xx chipset mobos. We will see..........


----------



## flashtest

http://lite.parkoz.com/zboard/view.p...t&history=back

I think i haven't seen all of those here.
EDIT







h... damn chinese sites ----- "Complete time Fri Aug 19" in one of the screenshots .... sorry for the fud...


----------



## xd_1771

IF the lower end FX processors have a chance to unlock and IF a lower end FX will at least outperform my Phenom II x6 in multithreaded prowess (as I mainly use my comp to edit video), i'll have a go at unlocking the FX.


----------



## Spacedinvader

^ win!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


So, who is going to be the 1st brave person to get an FX 4100 and try to unlock it?


Ill be that soul. I think im going to return my p67 board to microcenter and pickup a crosshair, 8150 and 4100 on release day..


----------



## huhh

An 8 core CPU overclocking past 5ghz is a win.


----------



## Spacedinvader

Quote:



Originally Posted by *huhh*


An 8 core CPU overclocking past 5ghz is my avatar.


fixed that for you


----------



## SSJVegeta

If BD turns out to be good, I hope I can just drop a BD CPU in a rev 1.0 GA-990FXA-UD3 mobo as they come with old bioses and I don't have an older AMD CPU myself to use to flash the mobo to a newer bios. A friend does but it's a hassle.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Spacedinvader*


fixed that for you










giggity gigity


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


IF the lower end FX processors have a chance to unlock and IF a lower end FX will at least outperform my Phenom II x6 in multithreaded prowess (as I mainly use my comp to edit video), i'll have a go at unlocking the FX.


I'm curious about this as well, have you seen anything about the probability of unlocking cores?


----------



## Droogie

Ok. So, what's the news? I haven't checked in in a few days, and I see people excited over something. Tired of digging through all of the stuff I missed, lol.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I just have a hard time believing it can go so evenly both ways.

HT cores vs Actual cores means more benefit in threaded, and more loss in less threaded.

Doesn't it? My logic has been pretty off these days, but it seems logical to me... HT is only roughly a 20% boost in performance over non HT cores.

Maybe 25-30% slower in apps using 4 cores or less?

lol did you guys notice the stepping? *OR*-*B*2


I don't have the mental capacity to mess with all 'dem numbas. I from the south







.

So i'm just going with the bell curve with the 2600k smack in the middle. It's possible it could be 10-15% worse, or 10-15% better by my terribad logic







. I'm really *crossing my fingers* that the IPC or what-ever we want to classify it as is up to par with nahalem, core for core.

*crosses toes and toe hairs*


----------



## radaja

it's going to be a bummer if on release day all we get is reviews of the FX-8150 that is in the Press kit.they should have sent three chips in the kit,FX-41XX,FX-61XX and FX-8150 so we know how they all stack up


----------



## SSJVegeta

Need reviews of the FX-8120 too


----------



## Spacedinvader

release next week...the rest is meh


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Need reviews of the FX-8120 too










Agreed. I want to see the 8120 (125watt) put through the wall and wrung out to see what it can do. I mean it _IS_ the only chip so far in the line-up that has the most turbo boost mhz thus far.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Need reviews of the FX-8120 too











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Agreed. I want to see the 8120 (125watt) put through the wall and wrung out to see what it can do. I mean it _IS_ the only chip so far in the line-up that has the most turbo boost mhz thus far.


well you can calulate performance on that one based on the FX-8150,but the x4 and x6's will have different things like cache size which will affect performance a little and will need to actually be reviewed to see how they stack up IMO


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


it's going to be a bummer if on release day all we get is reviews of the FX-8150 that is in the Press kit.they should have sent three chips in the kit,FX-41XX,FX-61XX and FX-8150 so we know how they all stack up


Couldn't the reviewers just disable a module or two and retest?


----------



## Droogie

Link to the news about the release?


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Couldn't the reviewers just disable a module or two and retest?


they probably can and probably will


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Couldn't the reviewers just disable a module or two and retest?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


they probably can and probably will


yep,but i think some will cry about it not being a retail model,and then i think some reviewers will get lazy and not do it and then some will cry bias on the site,you guys know how much bickering goes on


----------



## crshbndct

as far bioses, as i understand it, and from what John has said, if you put a BD in an am3+ board that doesnt have the most upto date BIOS, all that would happen is that it would boot and run, but the microcode would be wrong and your cpu would get identified as "Unknown CPU" or something and be slow.. all the updates for my motherboard, a 760g board that is am3+, are just microcodes. and the best part about a $70 motherboard cpu combo is that, if BD is rubbish, i will upgrade to SB.. f its fantastic, i will upgrade to PhenomII on the cheap when the prices come down.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


yep,but i think some will cry about it not being a retail model,and then i think some reviewers will get lazy and not do it and then some will cry bias on the site,you guys know how much bickering goes on


people will argue more about if a certain benchmarks is viable than other vs arguing about the validity of a cpu with disabled modules to test out other possible configs ...


----------



## Obakemono

Man if the 4100 unlocks to a ???? I think it will sell like hotcakes. I wonder what the 6100 will unlock too?


----------



## pcclock

Ahh the good old rumor blog. Grows about 10-15 pages a day.









Anyway.. to stay something remotely on topic or "on going conversation". I was gonna go for a 4.5ghz overclock to start with, FX 8150, and than see how far I can get with 5ghz as my goal.

Only gonna use the multiplier to do it, figured out beforehand about how I'm gonna do it.

I do hope it overclocks as easy as the Intel SBs though. With the asus boards I won't get into trouble with my memory, unlike the Gigabyte boards. So that is a good thing.

Than I'm gonna run it at the same clock speed against an SB and see what it does.

Anyone else planning on overclocking before its out?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Remember...
You can only disable or enable modules and not individual cores. 
So no such thing as a 5-core.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Yep, 2,4,6 or 8 cores* only for the 8 core* CPUs

*replace cores with threads if you wish


----------



## Fr0sty

if say a bd x8 comes close to sandy-e ... and bd x4 unlocks into x8 i cant imagine the rest


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15192654*
> if say a bd x8 comes close to sandy-e ... and bd x4 unlocks into x8 i cant imagine the rest


Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Wait for benchmarks then we'll see how it stacks up against SB-E


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15192748*
> Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Wait for benchmarks then we'll see how it stacks up against SB-E


Not really, based on the TR "preview"

It wasn't anything spectacular, and if BD can provide similar throughput, then it will be competing with SB-E. I remember seeing some slides somewhere stating such, but I can't find them









*IMHO*

edit: you Ninja'd me. My post is now irrelevant


----------



## mark4d

plzzzz read AMD was let down by GlobalFoundries bulldozer might not be hear for a will http://news.techeye.net/chips/amd-was-let-down-by-globalfoundries


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15192654*
> if say a bd x8 comes close to sandy-e ... and bd x4 unlocks into x8 i cant imagine the rest


I sure hope so. Intel needs some serious competition.


----------



## Erick

I will be happy if BD gets 2600K performance and can OC like the 2600K.

AMD is behind INTEL for about 3 generations lga1366 lga 1156 and lga 1155,
Time for BD = Sandy Bridge but BD < Sandy Bridge -E


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark4d;15192860*
> plzzzz read AMD was let down by GlobalFoundries bulldozer might not be hear for a will http://news.techeye.net/chips/amd-was-let-down-by-globalfoundries


Way to read, buddy. Says supplies will be lower for Llano, nothing about "bulldozer not be hear for a will"


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15192830*
> Not really, based on the TR "preview"
> 
> It wasn't anything spectacular, and if BD can provide similar throughput, then it will be competing with SB-E. I remember seeing some slides somewhere stating such, but I can't find them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *IMHO*
> 
> edit: you Ninja'd me. My post is now irrelevant


----------



## cmac68

I know this being my first post and all but I just left my local Microcenter in Columbus, OH and asked 2 different employees and was told by both "NDA lifts on the 12th and release will be Friday the 14th for FX Bulldozer CPU's". Both also stated that their training starts on the 12th as well confirming the Microcenter release memo.


----------



## macca_dj

Funny this is the thread that bares rumour over thy eye with in the net behold thy truth,

I be thy struck with diss belief of words so profound that thy human brethren is encapsulated by the word of other encouraged to be granted jealous of ones own word it is forth that the spread by thy own tongue the humiliation that one deserves jealous as one may be to be honored with spite tongue and jealousy,


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15193312*
> Funny this is the thread that bares rumour over thy eye with in the net behold thy truth,
> 
> I be thy struck with diss belief of words so profound that thy human brethren is encapsulated by the word of other encouraged to be granted jealous of ones own word it is forth that the spread by thy own tongue the humiliation that one deserves jealous as one may be to be honored with spite tongue and jealousy,


That hurts to read man...............


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *obakemono*


that hurts to read man...............










why ?


----------



## 855211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


why ?










Its smart speak


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


That hurts to read man...............










lol, i concur, it's like it's physiologically painful for the eyes to read.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


Its smart speak


Nooo, it's thesaurus speak







. It is kindof cool though.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cmac68*


I know this being my first post and all but I just left my local Microcenter in Columbus, OH and asked 2 different employees and was told by both "NDA lifts on the 12th and release will be Friday the 14th for FX Bulldozer CPU's". Both also stated that their training starts on the 12th as well confirming the Microcenter release memo.


Friday release?


----------



## cmac68

Yes, Friday release. Thats why I asked two different employees. Didn't want to show up Friday and have someone tell me that release was 2 days earlier and they are sold out.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Friday release?


I wonder if the Interlagos Opterons will launch next week as well. From the timing of the shipping announcement I had thought that next week made sense for them.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


why ?










Because I have to push my mental clutch in, shift into translate gear, and let the clutch out. Too much work. J/K
I got what you said.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Man if the 4100 unlocks to a ???? I think it will sell like hotcakes. I wonder what the 6100 will unlock too?










I can only unlock to an ..... wait for it ..... 8 core processor.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


That hurts to read man...............











Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


why ?










Because the only comma you used was at the end of that run on sentence.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Lol wut.

The stepping is still B2? Weren't B2 chips bad?

Phenom II based chips are all dogs...not sure if that is bad or good.


They were all hounds. I used to have a street fighting poodle, dogs can be vicious.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whitekidney*


@Jf-AMD

You've got spilled FX all over your secret launch, can't you just... tell us already?










FX isn't my product. Those guys sit at the end of my row.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I asked the same - think that JF-AMD stated that AM3+ should atleast boot Bulldozer with any bios 8xx/760 or any other AM3 mobos are not officially supported -so an update may/will be needed. - but if you have the option to update firmware on the 990 - do it before inserting the new chip









Edit: - that's the post i meant with the bios on am3+


If it has an AM3+ socket, it will boot. That is all I said.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sequoia464*


If I had a job that let me hang with the Ferrari boys, drink sake in Korea, and lord knows what all else, and, if I was under an NDA from my employer - I would take that NDA seriously.


I have grown accustomed to sleeping indoors and eating food. I'll refrain from saying anything.

I will say that I have been happy to work for AMD. I took a (small) pay cut to come to AMD because I believed in Opteron. And still believe. And even though I have to spend almost 6 weeks of Q4 out of Austin, it is all worth it. And if I play my cards right, I will be able to rent a bike and ride one of the olympic mountain bike trails in the world as a stopover between events.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Friday release?


Um, no.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


I wonder if the Interlagos Opterons will launch next week as well. From the timing of the shipping announcement I had thought that next week made sense for them.


Care to put some money on that?


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If it has an AM3+ socket, it will boot. That is all I said.


So this memo is wrong?


----------



## 855211

you just said no to a release date? 0.0


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I can only unlock to an ..... wait for it ..... 8 core processor.


Um, a 6 core as well? Just like the Phenoms, they might have a bad core/module and only unlock the 3rd module/2 cores for a 6 core.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *855211*


you just said no to a release date? 0.0


he didn't say no, he solidified it with confidence and put money on it.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Um, a 6 core as well? Just like the Phenoms, they might have a bad core/module and only unlock the 3rd module/2 cores for a 6 core.


You asked, what can the 6 core unlock to, right?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Man if the 4100 unlocks to a ???? I think it will sell like hotcakes.* I wonder what the 6100 will unlock too? *










IF it unlocks, it can only unlock to an 8 core. Unless I somehow misunderstood what you're asking.


----------



## macca_dj

I love this club !!
I was actually waiting for some one to come up with the dreaded FIXED IT









As most normally do please somebody









And thank you gplnpsb


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


IF it unlocks, it can only unlock to an 8 core.


Isn't BD a native 10 core?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Isn't BD a native 10 core?










Nope, it's native 8 core. ( 4 module ) however you want to look at it.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


And if I play my cards right, I will be able to rent a bike and ride one of the olympic mountain bike trails in the world as a stopover between events.


That would be awesome man, I hope you get to do it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


I be thy struck with diss belief of words so profound that thy human brethren is encapsulated by the word of other encouraged to be granted jealous of ones own word it is forth that the spread by thy own tongue the humiliation that one deserves jealous as one may be to be honored with spite tongue and jealousy,































Bravo to you sir that was cool


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


You asked, what can the 6 core unlock to, right?

IF it unlocks, it can only unlock to an 8 core.












If it unlocks, it could be a 6 *OR* an 8 core. If there is a bad core in a module then the whole module might not work, so if the 4100 has 2 disabled modules and one is truly faulty, then it might unlock to a 6 core/ 3 module (6 logical cores). or unlock all cores, or none. We will see.









(We are talking about the 4100, right?)


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*











If it unlocks, it could be a 6 *OR* an 8 core. If there is a bad core in a module then the whole module might not work, so if the 4100 has 2 disabled modules and one is truly faulty, then it might unlock to a 6 core/ 3 module (6 logical cores). or unlock all cores, or none. We will see.









(We are talking about the 4100, right?)


Read your own quote.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Man if the 4100 unlocks to a ???? I think it will sell like hotcakes.* I wonder what the 6100 will unlock to? *










The bolded part is what I responded to.









---------------------

Now, if we're strictly talking about the 4100...

It would be full of win if that unlocks to an 8 core.









I posted this a LONG time ago:
http://emm.msi.com/display.php?List=33&N=1150#

Quote:



With just the a single push of a button OC Genie II not only increases your processor and memory speeds, it also unlocks up to 8 CPU cores. This makes OC Genie II the simplest option to increase your performance on a MSI AMD 9-series mainboard up to 250%.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Read your own quote.

The bolded part is what I responded to.










Ahhhhhhhhhh. otay.


----------



## SCollins

It may or may not unlock, depends on if they are all native 8 core. I doubt it. But we won't get that info till launch. That would sort of defeat the modular design. The 4 core should be around 150mm sq.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


It may or may not unlock, depends on if they are all native 8 core. I doubt it. But we won't get that info till launch. That would sort of defeat the modular design. The 4 core should be around 150mm sq.


It should be if they used a separate die like intel does for the lower core variants.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


So this memo is wrong?











I have no idea what that is.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


It may or may not unlock, depends on if they are all native 8 core. I doubt it. But we won't get that info till launch. That would sort of defeat the modular design. The 4 core should be around 150mm sq.


Whats that supposed to mean? The info is long already out that its unlocked...


----------



## macca_dj

@ JF-AMD

your letting things slip

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


I wonder if the Interlagos Opterons will launch next week as well. From the timing of the shipping announcement I had thought that next week made sense for them.


Care to put some money on that?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Friday release?


Um, no.

And as we are RATAIL clients we do not get the first quota on sales as with any corporate business they will put another business first money matters or investment as you would put it,
We as the retail clients are always the second for release but with any corporate business they are sworn if they get the products first (part of the agreement I would suspect),

Just winding


----------



## JF-AMD

Auf Englisch bitte.....


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Auf Englisch bitte.....


Yeah I forgot my tablets too doh


----------



## whitekidney

@JF-AMD

Was wondering if ordinary people like me can order press kits and do reviews without being.. famous journalists or writers for major hardware sites?


----------



## Don Karnage

Who decides who gets press kits and how much would i have to bribe them?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Whats that supposed to mean? The info is long already out that its unlocked...


additional cores, not the multiplier.


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Whats that supposed to mean? The info is long already out that its unlocked...


Info is out that the 4 core can unlock to an 8 core? An 8 core cpu for the price of a quad would be an absolutely ridiculous deal, sadly I don't see AMD allowing that possibility. But damn, if it does...


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I have no idea what that is.


Internal memo at some US retailer.

Indicates the mobos listed will NOT work with BD out of the box and will need an AM3 CPU to update the BIOS on them first before a BD CPU can work on the mobo.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


So this memo is wrong?











It'll probably boot,but it most likely won't run well. I want to get the 990FX-UD7 but I think i'll wait until Gigabyte is selling the board with the updated UEFI.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Um, a 6 core as well? Just like the Phenoms, they might have a bad core/module and only unlock the 3rd module/2 cores for a 6 core.


It makes me wonder if it would be stable if only half of the module were to unlock,a FX4100 would be a FX5100.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I will say that I have been happy to work for AMD. I took a (small) pay cut to come to AMD because I believed in Opteron. And still believe. And even though I have to spend almost 6 weeks of Q4 out of Austin, it is all worth it. And if I play my cards right, I will be able to rent a bike and ride one of the olympic mountain bike trails in the world as a stopover between events.


Did you meet Lance Armstrong when AMD was sponsoring?

For an old timer I bet you're pretty fast on that mountain bike. Probably as fast as this whole Bulldozer Launch.









- Sent from my gaming tablet


----------



## macca_dj

I would think if a core fails its cut by laser so it would be officially redundant (dead) and as Amd are not selling 7 core CPU's then an extra gets castrated,

And as we are not worthy of press release kits and as the press release kits have been shipped (apparently) you can probably guarantee that most of the big investors in Amd have already received their Server cores,

So its just a game now to see what comes from the press release kits in benchmarking and reviews over the next couple of weeks then you and I will finally see a release date unless other investors are unhappy with the product then it will be brought forward,


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Care to put some money on that?


haha I think we've all learned that betting on release dates is not a path to fortune. We'll see next week I guess.

And thanks for the info about the hound codenames, that's pretty cool.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


It may or may not unlock, depends on if they are all native 8 core. I doubt it. But we won't get that info till launch. That would sort of defeat the modular design. The 4 core should be around 150mm sq.


hmm, i wonder, you might actually be right about a separate die. a few etail listings for the fx-4100 popped up today and they advertise it as having 8MB of cache. Given AMD's recent practice of advertising total cache, you'd expect 12MB for an eight core die with two modules disabled. I believe the now deleted FX-6100 bundle that showed up on tigerdirect today advertised 14MB of cache. Of course it could always be an four module die with two modules and 4MB L3 cache disabled, or the etail listings are just plain wrong.


----------



## Rebelord

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


For an old timer I bet you're pretty fast on that mountain bike. Probably as fast as this whole Bulldozer Launch.









- Sent from my gaming tablet


Thats low man. Show respect to the man, for at least giving us what info he legally can.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rebelord*


Thats low man. Show respect to the man, for at least giving us what info he legally can.


Got your back on that one Rebelord,

But you got to admit it was good even though it was below the belt,

I would like to know where Amd's and WIntels loyalty is though and where there main revenue comes from ?

Corporate business = $ in revenue
Retail customers = $ in revenue

And if we the retail customers give more to Amd in revenue than our corporate sibling then why is their loyalty not shown to us as respectfully as we would give them ?

They the companies Amd and WIntel alike have played games with us for long enough times are changing be real and you will get that back stop using us the retail client as guinea pigs to bench your products and bring us in to conflict with each other,


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rebelord*


Thats low man. Show respect to the man, for at least giving us what info he legally can.


o.0 that came across as a brotherly jab/joke. 0.o

OT, Conjecture: I think AMD shipped the bulldozer based processors under our noses, and announced the server parts to cover it all. Conspiracy!


----------



## Usario

Seems release isn't too far off now.

I'm excited.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whitekidney*


@JF-AMD

Was wondering if ordinary people like me can order press kits and do reviews without being.. famous journalists or writers for major hardware sites?


Nope, only journalists.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Who decides who gets press kits and how much would i have to bribe them?


PR and product marketing decide together. And no bribing will help.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


Did you meet Lance Armstrong when AMD was sponsoring?

For an old timer I bet you're pretty fast on that mountain bike. Probably as fast as this whole Bulldozer Launch.










Yeah, I met him twice, once at a company event and once on his rance where I whipped his butt in a race:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Technically I beat him because he had a flat and a DNF (did not finish). I finished, so along with the other 1000+ people that finished, we can say we beat him. I think I ened up ~35 out of ~60 in my age class. Only did 2 races, both on his ranch. The other one convinced me not to race any more.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


Got your back on that one Rebelord,

But you got to admit it was good even though it was below the belt,

I would like to know where Amd's and WIntels loyalty is though and where there main revenue comes from ?

Corporate business = $ in revenue
Retail customers = $ in revenue

And if we the retail customers give more to Amd in revenue than our corporate sibling then why is their loyalty not shown to us as respectfully as we would give them ?

They the companies Amd and WIntel alike have played games with us for long enough times are changing be real and you will get that back stop using us the retail client as guinea pigs to bench your products and bring us in to conflict with each other,


Think of it this way: The corporate and retial market TAMs are about the same size. Corporate market is more like the bond market, the consumer market is more like the stock market. You need both for a balanced portfolio.

But, before you get too far off on that, the enthusiast market is a small part of the consumer market. I can't speak for the officail size, it's not my world.

I did some interesting math on some xeon products this week. Their largest selling part is N-7 (i.e. 7 steps down from top bin) and N-6 through N-8 represent almost 75% of the xeon sales. Why is everyone so obsessed with benchmarks if 3/4 of the market doesn't focus on performance?

Food for thought.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


But, before you get too far off on that, the enthusiast market is a small part of the consumer market. *I can't speak for the officail size, it's not my world.*

I did some interesting math on some xeon products this week. Their largest selling part is N-7 (i.e. 7 steps down from top bin) and N-6 through N-8 represent almost 75% of the xeon sales. Why is everyone so obsessed with benchmarks if 3/4 of the market doesn't focus on performance?

Food for thought.


Because you're posting this on OCN, an enthusiast forum which is 6%, a single digit slice of the pie, a statistic that you have spoken of before.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I had been saying 6%, which I read in a different report. Ultimately, whether it is 6 or 9, it is a single digit slice of the market.


As small and meaningless as we are, you still find the time to post here. Why?

Food for thought.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


It'll probably boot,but it most likely won't run well. I want to get the 990FX-UD7 but I think i'll wait until Gigabyte is selling the board with the updated UEFI.


I have to agree here, it will boot almost definitely as long as its a CPU.

I had a board that was only designed for P4s boot with a 45nm Core 2 Duo and work fine, albeit a bit slower.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Auf Englisch bitte.....


does that mean you are in dresden to overview some important amd server business ???

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Seems release isn't too far off now.

I'm excited.


seronx should be here to celebrate the imminent launch of bd


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


does that mean you are in dresden to overview some important amd server business ???

*seronx should be here to celebrate the imminent launch of bd







*


this.


----------



## macca_dj

@JF-AMD

_Originally Posted by *whitekidney*  __
@JF-AMD

Was wondering if ordinary people like me can order press kits and do reviews without being.. famous journalists or writers for major hardware sites?

*JF_AMD*
*Nope, only journalists.*

Can I get an Uninpress release kit then as I am reviewing this now









_


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


seronx should be here to celebrate the imminent launch of bd










Waiting for Vishera..(or maybe steamroller)


----------



## 2010rig

Whoa, Fr0sty calls for Seronx, Seronx shows up within 10 minutes. magical.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Whoa, Fr0sty calls for Seronx, Seronx shows up within 10 minutes. magical.


My name is a red word anyone who says Seronx is instantly queued up to the NSA which then forwards that information to me...

This happens within 5 to 6 minutes...

And, I decide if I want to reply or not
(Joking, of course or am I?)


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Whoa, Fr0sty calls for Seronx, Seronx shows up within 10 minutes. magical.


Hey man you must have something better to do than troll the bulldozer blog right? Or maybe you don't? 
Either way stop being rude. You sound like an 18yr old who drank to much.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


My name is a red word anyone who says Seronx is instantly queued up to the NSA which then forwards that information to me...

This happens within 5 to 6 minutes...

And, I decide if I want to reply or not


Makes perfect sense, and here I thought it was magic.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *konspiracy*


Hey man you must have something better to do than troll the bulldozer blog right? Or maybe you don't? 
Either way stop being rude. You sound like an 18yr old who drank to much.


It's called sarcasm, ever heard of it? Seronx got it, read his reply.


----------



## swindle

Peaking tbh.

8150, come to me!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


I have to agree here, it will boot almost definitely as long as its a CPU.

I had a board that was only designed for P4s boot with a 45nm Core 2 Duo and work fine, albeit a bit slower.


True,BD should boot in a AM3 socket,but the microcode will make all the difference if you want the full performance of a AM3+ CPU.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15195664*
> Whoa, Fr0sty calls for Seronx, Seronx shows up within 10 minutes. magical.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15195693*
> My name is a red word anyone who says Seronx is instantly queued up to the NSA which then forwards that information to me...


priceless


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15195693*
> My name is a red word anyone who says Seronx is instantly queued up to the NSA which then forwards that information to me...
> 
> This happens within 5 to 6 minutes...
> 
> And, I decide if I want to reply or not
> (Joking, of course or am I?)


lol, now I know why whenever CP is mentioned on 4chan the thread the post was in is deleted in two minutes regardless of whether illegal material was actually posted or not

(BTW, itanimulli.com... epic troll)


----------



## Nocturin

yup.


----------



## yukon

Pipe dreams or is it really getting close?

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/computers/new-amd-bulldozer-release-date-rumored-to-be-october-12/6753

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-FX-series-Processor-Bulldozer-opteron,13407.html

http://lenzfire.com/2011/09/amd-bulldozer-official-price-and-release-date-46209/


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15195405*
> Because you're posting this on OCN, an enthusiast forum which is 6%, a single digit slice of the pie, a statistic that you have spoken of before.
> 
> As small and meaningless as we are, you still find the time to post here. Why?
> 
> Food for thought.


I think he's trying to say that we're not the focus for AMD. That the important part for AMD is to focus their efforts on the markets that can give them the most. That we get something that is fun and good to play with is a bonus.

Then there are enthusiasts and enthusiasts. Some are overclockers, some are more interested in the multicore for rendering and folding, some just think it's cool, and so on. From what I've seen there are many here who are more interested having additional cores than overclocking in itself.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15197310*
> I think he's trying to say that we're not the focus for AMD. That the important part for AMD is to focus their efforts on the markets that can give them the most. That we get something that is fun and good to play with is a bonus.
> 
> Then there are enthusiasts and enthusiasts. Some are overclockers, some are more interested in the multicore for rendering and folding, some just think it's cool, and so on. From what I've seen there are many here who are more interested having additional cores than overclocking in itself.


Also having a fast chip in your portfolio helps selling the cheaper ones i guess.
By example the car industry - VW is making a single ass-kicking golf each year just to make customers be happy with their choice (even if they later on don't buy the GT model but the 1.6 Eco).
Another examples - Amd/Nvidia 6990/590 - almost no one buys them yet all AMD/Nvidia customer love it when their product kicks the competitor's product.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15196010*
> True,BD should boot in a AM3 socket,but the microcode will make all the difference if you want the full performance of a AM3+ CPU.


I would not bet my money on it booting on every am3 socket
Hell there are even some old Nvidia AM3's circulating

AM3+ boards should boot it thou, but to run optimally yea newest firmware if possible.
Still all resellers will make internal notes to update to the latest - will save them some issues - and hey - nothing beats a happy customer (compared to some guy spending money and seeing a 'unknown CPU detected')
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15193732*
> They were all hounds. I used to have a street fighting poodle, dogs can be vicious.


Agree, my Japanese Chin+Bolonka Mischling loved to charge german sheepheards (Hint: Don't name a dog Quake - it somehow changes it).


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15197457*
> Also having a fast chip in your portfolio helps selling the cheaper ones i guess.
> By example the car industry - VW is making a single ass-kicking golf each year just to make customers be happy with their choice (even if they later on don't buy the GT model but the 1.6 Eco).
> Another examples - Amd/Nvidia 6990/590 - almost no one buys them yet all AMD/Nvidia customer love it when their product kicks the competitor's product.


That's true, but VW couldn't survive on the kickass golf. Same goes for AMD and Nvidia. A flagship is only good if you have big enough part of your segment, otherwise you would only bleed resources.


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15195370*
> 
> 
> 
> Food for thought.


FS...why? Dude you are not too old to ride an HT.

FS bikes are for grandpas.

Nice form though. You look good.


----------



## hazarada

every time this thread gets posted in a penguin gets eaten by a seal








please think of the penguins


----------



## Jared2608

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;15197746*
> every time this thread gets posted in a penguin gets eaten by a seal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please think of the penguins


What about the Seals, they need help too!!

Seriously though, I wasn't able to get online for 2 weeks, because I destroyed my Modem, but I was hoping that when I opened this I'd see links to benchmarks, and other nice things...Sadly not!

So the next speculated date is 12/10/11??


----------



## Evil Penguin

Yes...
Please think of me.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> So the next speculated date is 12/10/11??


October 12th, 2011 for those who put the month first. I'm sure someone would say "December 10th!?! when was that said???", so I'm clearing it up now.


----------



## aweir

The month always comes first. It's easier to say November 10th, instead of *the tenth of November*. Amiright?


----------



## Jared2608

yeah, I didn't think of that...Here we always put the day first as in 6/10/2011, they work both ways though, lol.

Why doesn't 28/2/11 work for interests sake, since February does have 28 days baring a leap year??


----------



## Chuckclc

We put in order of greater sizes I guess? If thats the way to say it. Days, then months, then years.


----------



## Jared2608

It's just we do things here, lol. DD/MM/YY...

I hope AMD does launch them this month...


----------



## Droogie

The only time we put the day first is on the 4th of July.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## Droogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK;15197831*
> October 12th, 2011 for those who put the month first. I'm sure someone would say "December 10th!?! when was that said???", so I'm clearing it up now.


I just read that and thought the same thing. Just figured it was another push back lol.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## Jared2608

I guess that date has enough significance to warrant saying it "the long way"....

Appologies for causing some people a brief moment of heart failure, lol!!!


----------



## BigCactus

I can guarantee bulldozer will release before Christmas so long as there is no delay.


----------



## Jared2608

ha ha, brings new meaning to the phrase "It's coming", "So is Christmas"....


----------



## tvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15197969*
> We put in order of greater sizes I guess? If thats the way to say it. Days, then months, then years.


That's the only way 2do it I say


----------



## tvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15198304*
> I can guarantee bulldozer will release before Christmas so long as there is no delay.


Haha here we go again


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15194623*
> It makes me wonder if it would be stable if only half of the module were to unlock,a FX4100 would be a FX5100.


Could someone refresh my memory as to why computers do not like CPU core counts uneven with the exceptions of a single and triple core?


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15198392*
> Could someone refresh my memory as to why computers do not like CPU core counts uneven with the exceptions of a single and triple core?


Don't know, but VMware Workstation will only allow for 1, 2, 4, or 8 cores per CPU per VM. Oh hey, look at that, one of the programs I use all the time is all set for bulldozer.

As for bulldozer in particular... still don't know, and not going to start a rumor by guessing.


----------



## flashtest

I would not hold my breath on unlocking, well we have all but 5 core on the consumer market (except kal being 4+1) but the standart excuse would be symetry and the love to things that are 2^







Damn now i have to hide Tux's body.


----------



## mark4d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz;15193052*
> Way to read, buddy. Says supplies will be lower for Llano, nothing about "bulldozer not be hear for a will"


bulldozer is nm thankyou very much


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15198304*
> I can guarantee bulldozer will release before Christmas so long as there is no delay.


I never would have guessed.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15198304*
> I can guarantee bulldozer will release before Christmas so long as there is no delay.


You have already made a guarantee, please do not jinx anything.


----------



## MojoW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15198304*
> I can guarantee bulldozer will release before Christmas so long as there is no delay.


just ... don't bet on it cactus







lol


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608;15198322*
> ha ha, brings new meaning to the phrase "It's coming", "So is Christmas"....


Is that Christmas 2011 or...


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15190281*
> Lol wut.


*This*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOZAkcjJYks&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Seronx

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150320352578321&set=a.10150116392383321.270421.209509813320&type=1&theater


----------



## The3D

I john, i just registered to ocnet to ask you a question about the thread/process scheduling strategy that will be (or has been) implemented by the OSs to support bd. As you stated before somewhere, it should be better from a performance/power point of view to execute threads per core, in order to power-gate the unused modules and let the turbo kick in. The turbo should also attenuate the (negligible) effects of the overhead given by the shared frontend. While i agree with this statement in general, i think this might be a problem for FP intensive threads sharing a single FPU. While the SMT execution strategy on the FPU would allow both threads to have a FMAC per thread, executing them on two modules would allow each thread to "access" a full FPU , thus 2 FMAC per thread (4 fp op/cycle total instead of 2 fp op/cycle when 2 threads are executed per core). Allocating threads per core would then have a certain performance impact in fpu intensive applications that use less than 8 threads (for example: games).

Am i wrong? Am i missing something? Sorry if this has been asked before.


----------



## blabla125

latest news please guys i cant keep up with all the pages!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15195405*
> Because you're posting this on OCN, an enthusiast forum which is 6%, a single digit slice of the pie, a statistic that you have spoken of before.
> 
> As small and meaningless as we are, you still find the time to post here. Why?
> 
> Food for thought.


A. I am a forum junky. Just go look in mountain biking forums.
B. The crazy rumors that run around the internet actually end up with some of the corporate customers. And then I have to debunk them with customers. So there is a selfish self-interest here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15195521*
> does that mean you are in dresden to overview some important amd server business ???


No, that is what I say to people when they say nonsensical things. Loosely translated it means "in english please". Old joke from a project team back when I ran dell.com's content engine.

Not planning to be in germany until early december for some customer visits. Unlikely that I would be doing important business in Dresden. We used it for a press event last quarter, but there is no business for me there, I don't get involved in manufacturing.


----------



## The3D

cut double post


----------



## araphre

No idea if this has been posted yet, I just joined to post this here because I was pretty darn excited to see it myself.

PassMark has a bench of the 8150 up! I've always seen them as reliable... take it or leave it!
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
According to their scoring system, the 8150 ranks just shy of the 2600. If the price stays around $260, I'd say that's exactly what we've been waiting for from AMD.


----------



## Benz

Oh yeah that's pretty damn reliable...


----------



## matty0610

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *araphre;15199141*
> No idea if this has been posted yet, I just joined to post this here because I was pretty darn excited to see it myself.
> 
> PassMark has a bench of the 8150 up! I've always seen them as reliable... take it or leave it!
> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
> According to their scoring system, the 8150 ranks just shy of the 2600. If the price stays around $260, I'd say that's exactly what we've been waiting for from AMD.


We have already seen that. We have ruled that as unreliable benchmark due to the fact that A. for BD to work correctly, mobos need the correct firmware, B. The general consensus is that PassMark sucks according to that particular thread when it was posted.

Also please use the search function to check if something has been posted.


----------



## JF-AMD

And C. synthetic benchmarks are not very valuable unless you run passmark as a regular workload. Otherwise, as a proxy, they generally are poor indicators.


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15199783*
> And C. synthetic benchmarks are not very valuable unless you run passmark as a regular workload. Otherwise, as a proxy, they generally are poor indicators.


true - Id rather see some Real benchmarks ... like games








seriously what else am I going to use my puter for that will require that much horsepower? ... not much.

as long as I can do what I need to do, and do it with a little style Im happy.


----------



## HothBase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djxput;15199925*
> true - Id rather see some Real benchmarks ... like games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seriously what else am I going to use my puter for that will require that much horsepower? ... not much.
> 
> as long as I can do what I need to do, and do it with a little style Im happy.


Games don't need much CPU horsepower.


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothBase;15199970*
> Games don't need much CPU horsepower.


Well when upgrading from a q6600 - anything current will give me quite a nice boost especially when you consider a newer gpu (running a 5770 atm that I plan upgrading - hopefully soon ... errr ya JF whens the 7000 series coming out


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothBase;15199970*
> Games don't need much CPU horsepower.


While generally GPUs are nearly all that's important, there are plenty of exceptions to that rule.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothBase;15199970*
> *crappy old* Games don't need much CPU horsepower.


fixed that for ya.

Second Life and Eve Online alone push my 1090 T... with 3 Eve onlines running I get 85% usage.. 4 its at 100 .. 5 it is still at 100.

Second Life.. Jesus where to start... the game is not optimized.. They didnt have multicore support until about 2 years ago after 100s of emails to linden labs telling them their code was pretty crappy... and now ... they released multicore but it sometimes will drag all of your cores to 100% instead of just 1 

Lets not even get into Battlefield or Dirt.. both which run the CPU heavily.


----------



## willistech

I take it nothing new or useful has been posted.


----------



## HothBase

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


fixed that for ya.

Lets not even get into Battlefield or Dirt.. both which run the CPU heavily.


Uh... no.
Have you seen the BF3 benches? The ones that show Deneb scoring the same FPS as Sandy Bridge @1920x1080 with a GTX 580.
And DiRT? How come it played so smoothly on my x3 720 then?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willistech;15200156*
> I take it nothing new or useful has been posted.


no not in months

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothBase;15200169*
> Uh... no.
> Have you seen the BF3 benches? The ones that show Deneb scoring the same FPS as Sandy Bridge @1920x1080 with a GTX 580.
> And DiRT? How come it played so smoothly on my x3 720 then?


dirt3? I dont think so lol and im in the battlefield 3 beta on max resolution at 1080p it pretty much pushes my 6970 and 1090T .. picking up another 6970 soon and a bulldozer 8150 should alleviate that.


----------



## willistech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothBase;15200169*
> Uh... no.
> Have you seen the BF3 benches? The ones that show Deneb scoring the same FPS as Sandy Bridge @1920x1080 with a GTX 580.
> And DiRT? How come it played so smoothly on my x3 720 then?


source
CPUs priced over $220 offer rapidly diminishing returns when it comes to game performance. As such, we have a hard time recommending anything more expensive than the Core i5-2500K, especially since this multiplier-unlocked processor can be overclocked to great effect if more performance is desired. Even at stock clocks, it meets or beats the $1000 Core i7-990X Extreme Edition when it comes to gaming.


----------



## blabla125

i find my dirt 3 *****d up coz full setting it run at 15fps...lower than death... but with no lag at all


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willistech;15200217*
> source
> CPUs priced over $220 offer rapidly diminishing returns when it comes to game performance.


Well yeah, the i5-2500k is listed for $220...

There isn't much room to grow after you've reached the processor offering the highest per core performance with enough cores. Adding HT doesn't do anything for the i7 in gaming, the 990x suffers from lower IPC, more cores don't help it.


----------



## nicodemus

i know so many people are stoked about the 8 core BD, but i really want to see how BD scales. it's the quad core i'm most excited about seeing.

i just need them to be better than my 920, then we'll see which one i pick for my needs. =)


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nicodemus*


i know so many people are stoked about the 8 core BD, but i really want to see how BD scales. *it's the quad core i'm most excited about seeing.*

i just need them to be better than my 920, then we'll see which one i pick for my needs. =)


This is what I'm leaning towards as well. Either that or the 6. Going from my current 2-core to a full on 8-core just seems redankulous.

But alas, I probably wont upgrade for another 4-5 years, so I might swing for the eight-er.

I might just try my hand at OC'ing too. Tis exciting times!


----------



## matty0610

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


This is what I'm leaning towards as well. Either that or the 6. Going from my current 2-core to a full on 8-core just seems redankulous.

But alas, I probably wont upgrade for another 4-5 years, so I might swing for the eight-er.

I might just try my hand at OC'ing too. Tis exciting times!


If I was jumping from Dual I would go with the 8 core as well. Especially if you don't want to upgrade for a while which is my goal. Giving this rig to my step father even though he won't come close to using it's full power.


----------



## salokin

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...50-review.html Dutch leaked review of the fx-8150. Don't know if legit or not, but atleast it's not OBR/DH


----------



## nicodemus

eh, i tried the "future proof" approach with my i7 920. it just doesn't work out that way, though. tech moves so fast, it will be outdated before the "extra power" becomes relevant.

buy what you need, i feel. unless you really plan for it (like you want to start folding), in my experience, when you over buy, the "extra power" never becomes "what you need."

my .02. my next build will be much more controlled and conservative.


----------



## kahboom

Is the fx8170 going to use the same stepping or the c stepping and what will be the advantages? If any.


----------



## mystikalrush

Nothing official, but its speculated from that time frame of Q4 '11 to Q1 '12 that it will have a C Stepping. Basically means a much more matured architecture, usualy runs more effecient over older revisions.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*


http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...50-review.html Dutch leaked review of the fx-8150. Don't know if legit or not, but atleast it's not OBR/DH


Hope not...










23 mins vs 75.2? Yuck!

Either way not a very good review, soon, soon!!!!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Hope not...










23 mins vs 75.2? Yuck!

Either way not a very good review, soon, soon!!!!


Thought the same thing when i read that part. Wonder how it'll do in SC2


----------



## kahboom

Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Hope not...

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 948x41.

23 mins vs 75.2? Yuck!

Not believing it, until official review comes out, something is foul i call shananagins!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


Not believing it, until official review comes out, something is foul i call shananagins!


Don't believe it then but the review was written using an Amd press kit


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Hope not...

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 948x41.

23 mins vs 75.2? Yuck!

Not believing it, until official review comes out, something is foul i call shananagins!


FC2 is probably limited to two threads, if 8 is around the performance of 4 /w HT than limiting 8 to 2 causes a greater loss than eliminating HT and 2 cores from 4 /w HT.

It's basic logic, AMD is going to bring great value though, isn't that why most of us are here?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Hope not...










23 mins vs 75.2? Yuck!

Either way not a very good review, soon, soon!!!!


From same article:

Quote:



Conclusion The FX-8150 is an excellent processor from AMD in particular on price / quality convincing. He comes easy with the i5 in 2500 - he is actually slightly faster - and sometimes comes close to the i7 2600K during multi-threaded instruction. Not bad for 220 Euros. Also on the gaming field newcomer know without a doubt convince. The CPU is powerful enough to be a very swift GPU data needs. That leaves the benchmark Dirt3 see. For Intel CPU-intensive games is still ahead. If we look at overclocking potential, we can only conclude one thing: Bulldozer overclocks well. Combine that with not too expensive motherboards and you have a very nice price for a very rapid system.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


From same article:


What is the norm, games that use eight cores, or games that use two?

Btw they switched to Nehalem for the gaming comparison, that's a 3.2GHz 1366 i7 they're comparing it with.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What is the norm, games that use eight cores, or games that use two?

Btw they switched to Nehalem for the gaming comparison, that's a 3.2GHz 1366 i7 they're comparing it with.


So faster then a 2500K in multi threaded and less in gaming? Hasn't that what most have been saying


----------



## flashtest

My bet IF those are real - was that some driver glitched on those min FPS - Farcry 2 manages to use 3 cores and profits from them still 27fps is too low even for an old X2 Phenom- http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/im...x6/chart18.jpg for example.


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


My bet IF those are real - was that some driver glitched on those min FPS - Farcry 2 manages to use 3 cores and profits from them still 27fps is too low even for an old X2 Phenom- http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/im...x6/chart18.jpg for example.


There will be alot of optimizations after the first month, so we should just kick back and relax till around Christmas. These will be like the c2 stepping. they will have a wall around 4.8-5ghz, the new stepping should have a wall of about 5.1-5.2ghz. maybe more. They said they achieved 5ghz with 1.48v and the record video said 5ghz at 1.5v is a okay chip some doing better some doing worse. 
Also we still have the ability to overclock the cpu-NB correct?
Remember phenom 2 and thubans get a couple percent increase in ipc when the nb is overclocked. There will be a few tricks to get some nice performance from these cpu's.
Dont count amd out yet....


----------



## SCollins

It doesn't seem like the AMD NDA holders are out blabbing away. So this could be ES silicon. I'll wait for the people I trust to review these chips, the review from that site is just so wierd, its like it is cherry picking the results from every intel chip, which makes no sense.

I'll wait for Anand,TPU,OCN etc. I know I'll get good reliable data sets. I just don't see any real controls here and I realy doubt they have a real retail cpu, becuase none of the other NDA holders are leaking. That means we know that NDA has not been lifted.


----------



## black96ws6

This is what's scary though:









If they got a single-threaded score of 4074 with the FX-8150 @ 3.6Ghz (4.2Ghz Turbo), that means IPC has actually gone DOWN compared to PHII X6 1100T (which gets about the same score as you can see in the chart above, but at much lower clock (3.3Ghz w/3.7Ghz Turbo).

Why not just die-shrink the PHII and save a crapload of R&D dollars???


----------



## huhh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


This is what's scary though:









If they got a single-threaded score of 4074 with the FX-8150 @ 3.6Ghz (4.2Ghz Turbo), that means IPC has actually gone DOWN compared to PHII X6 1100T (which gets about the same score as you can see in the chart above, but at much lower clock (3.3Ghz w/3.7Ghz Turbo).

Why not just die-shrink the PHII and save a crapload of R&D dollars???


Because they've been working on it for a long time. I'm sure they assumed they could improve their CPUs with new architecture. Can't really just throw away years of R&D...the shareholders would be mad if they did that.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Don't believe it then but the review was written using an Amd press kit


And different RAM between systems.


----------



## JF-AMD

If you care most about single threaded performance than a 4 core BD might be a better product to compare, right?


----------



## jck

*just shakes his head and waits patiently for the launch date...*


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you care most about single threaded performance than a 4 core BD might be a better product to compare, right?


i'm confused are you saying a FX-41XX at the same clockspeed as a FX-81XX would score better in Single threaded benchmarks?


----------



## black96ws6

This review has been confirmed as real:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AnandTech*

It's real. The source is the website of a physical magazine in the Netherlands, part of VNU Media/The Nielsen Company. PCM stands for Personal Computer Magazine.


I can't say this any better, so I'll just quote from another poster as well:

Quote:



As suspected all these months by Xbitlabs and many many websites, AMD needed higher Turbo because per core performance was too weak. Hence so many re-spins and delays to get those clocks higher.


----------



## nicodemus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you care most about single threaded performance than a 4 core BD might be a better product to compare, right?


precisely! i'm a gamer. period. so more cores don't help me right now. so i'm very excited to see how the FX4's do. i'm betting people will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you care most about single threaded performance than a 4 core BD might be a better product to compare, right?


Erm, what if i care about single threaded performance when i use old applications (that are optimized for 4 cores top) and i want to profit from more cores in applications that support 4+?
It would be kind of disappointing if an 3 years old Phenom II performs better clock:clock in Emulation for example.

Does this mean that 4xxx will perform better in ST (apart that it can clock more due to TDP i guess).


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What is the norm, games that use eight cores, or games that use two?

Btw they switched to Nehalem for the gaming comparison, that's a 3.2GHz 1366 i7 they're comparing it with.


What is the norm now, won't be the norm tomorrow.

No need to switch between one extreme or the other







.

Switching to a different processor during testing? Meh.

Hopefully not much longer till real benches are out.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i'm confused are you saying a FX-41XX at the same clockspeed as a FX-81XX would score better in Single threaded benchmarks?


No, he's saying that if you care most about single threaded performance, then you won't have any use for 6 or 8 core Bulldozer. Because you won't need it.

Let me add that the 4 core and the 8 core Bulldozers will be the same in gaming performance.


----------



## jck

Looking at nicodemus' post, this brings a good question for JF-AMD:

It's pretty obvious you'll have been working with Microsoft for OS optimization in Windows, as well as with the motherboard manufacturers, concerning BD drivers.

Is there any comment you can make about any cooperation AMD has had with other-than-Windows OS makers to implement compatibility/optimization for Bulldozer...such as Linux?

Just curious...

ADDED: just noticed he left


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


*Hopefully not much longer till real benches are out.







*


These are real benches, the site just didn't realize we could get to them via Google Cache before they were ready to be publicized.

Unfortunately, it looks like the FX-8150 is basically a PhenomII X8. Great for multi-threaded apps, but poor IPC (compared to Sandy Bridge)...


----------



## Bagpuss

Pffft...this confirms my worst fears.

Bulldozer will be a complete waste of time for my paticular needs...Emulators that require a high IPC..on 2 cores

Sandybridge 2500k it is then.....


----------



## bru_05

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bagpuss*


Pffft...this confirms my worst fears.


Spiders???


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


This review has been confirmed as real:


Hmm, I was thinking of getting the 2500K before. If the 8150 can OC to around 5.5GHz on air then I'll get one, if not, then I'll get a Z68+2500K combo.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bagpuss*


Bulldozer will be a complete waste of time for my paticular needs...Emulators that require a high IPC..on 2 cores


Yeah, that'll be a major usage for my new PC build too, PCSX2 and Dolphin









If both of those emulators used all 8 cores then results would be much better.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i'm confused are you saying a FX-41XX at the same clockspeed as a FX-81XX would score better in Single threaded benchmarks?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Erm, what if i care about single threaded performance when i use old applications (that are optimized for 4 cores top) and i want to profit from more cores in applications that support 4+?
It would be kind of disappointing if an 3 years old Phenom II performs better clock:clock in Emulation for example.

Does this mean that 4xxx will perform better in ST (apart that it can clock more due to TDP i guess).


No, what I am saying is that lower core count parts typically have higher clock speeds.

We'll have a range of products that meet different needs.

Kinda frustrating that people keep saying that BD isn't right for them because they think we only have an 8-core option. There will be other core counts.


----------



## flashtest

cough... some sources discuss if the press samples are hand-picked 'top-performers' so i would wait to see some real retail users share their success/misfortune with clocking.
also if the cooler is not mentioned you can assume it's a 570LC or similar solution.

btw earlier someone asked why they make CPU's 2x 4x 6x - well seems we have now a Phenom II X5 X7 (FX-6/FX-8) (albeit clocking better)









Edit:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


We'll have a range of products that meet different needs.


One of the things i respect AMD most for - you don't forgett the budget sector - and i am sure a FX-4xxx is going in my mother's next internet rig.


----------



## Hueristic

May I suggest adding "BD client side has not been released" to title. And just drop the "not" when released so we can know at a glance when it is available.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No, what I am saying is that lower core count parts typically have higher clock speeds.


ok thanks for clearing that up


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


This is what's scary though:









If they got a single-threaded score of 4074 with the FX-8150 @ 3.6Ghz (4.2Ghz Turbo), that means IPC has actually gone DOWN compared to PHII X6 1100T (which gets about the same score as you can see in the chart above, but at much lower clock (3.3Ghz w/3.7Ghz Turbo).

Why not just die-shrink the PHII and save a crapload of R&D dollars???


My E4500 @ 3.3GHz in CineBench R10:

Rendering (Single CPU): 3747 CB-CPU 
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 7196 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.92

Looks like I'll be getting a Sandy Bridge then...

Just need to wait for the NDA to lift and then I will be 100% sure.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


If you care most about single threaded performance than a 4 core BD might be a better product to compare, right?


Single thread all the way up to quad core optomized, which encompasses pretty much 99% of the gaming market.

If these results are correct you're basically getting a Phenom II 955 for $140 that overclocks higher, uses less power, and is overall a better processor.

Price vs Performance comparisons ensue.


----------



## radaja

JF-AMD,do you know and can you say whether the FX-41XX and FX-61XX's will be made from native FX-81XX's dies with disabled modules or are they actually different dies with modules taken out,to take less space and save on costs?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


I can't say this any better, so I'll just quote from another poster as well:


Regarding your quote here, If it was clockspeed they were worried about, How did they break a world record and achieve similar results on air with an engineering sample? That wouldn't be possible would it?


----------



## nicodemus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


No, what I am saying is that lower core count parts typically have higher clock speeds.

We'll have a range of products that meet different needs.

Kinda frustrating that people keep saying that BD isn't right for them because they think we only have an 8-core option. There will be other core counts.


indeed. right now i see (rumored):

CPU Stock-Turbo

FX-4100 3.6-3.8 gHz (95W)
FX-B4150 3.8-4.0 gHz (95W)
FX-4170 4.2-4.3 gHz (125W)

i expect them to do well, especially for the price. these are the CPUs for me.

http://wccftech.com/official-amd-bul...cing-detailed/


----------



## kchris

So millions of dollars, years of R&D, tons of delays and they came up with a Thuban performancewise with two extra cores. Awesome job AMD R&D team. Hey I got an 85 in high school physics can I become the head of the research team for their next processor??

Thanks for the benches. Now time to buy four sandy bridges, gotta build rigs for a bunch of family members before Christmas. And if I run low on money I'll just get a phenom/thuban, its hardly a step down in performance while probably huge savings in price.


----------



## Chewy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


So millions of dollars, years of R&D, tons of delays and they came up with a Thuban performancewise with two extra cores. Awesome job AMD R&D team. Hey I got an 85 in high school physics can I become the head of the research team for their next processor??

Thanks for the benches. Now time to buy four sandy bridges, gotta build rigs for a bunch of family members before Christmas.


----------



## huhh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Single thread all the way up to quad core optomized, which encompasses pretty much 99% of the gaming market.

If these results are correct you're basically getting a Phenom II 955 for $140 that overclocks higher, uses less power, and is overall a better processor.

Price vs Performance comparisons ensue.


I hope not cause a 2500k still has better price/performance. If this is what AMD is bringing to the table, Intel is way ahead.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *huhh*


I hope not cause a 2500k still has better price/performance. If this is what AMD is bringing to the table, Intel is way ahead.


I'd say AMD has the advantage if this turns out to be true.

I mean I would never buy one, but a lot of people with slower graphics cards, or even just one will find the reduced price in a gaming rig that doesn't include cpu intensive titles alluring...

The price difference would allow you to grab a decent SSD for the build, while sacrificing little in terms of raw performance, outside of select games and benchmarks of course.


----------



## Bloitz

Pfff, I can't really say what's worse: These results or a fart during intercourse...


----------



## mastercode

well ... the 8 core should be good for me as i have no interest in gaming atall!! .. all i do is video edit and encode alot so the extra cores should be good for me and fellow encoders


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloitz*


Pfff, I can't really say what's worse: These results or a fart during intercourse...


what fate,i just got a PM saying my sig was too big and then you post this and now im golden


----------



## Obakemono

Why on earth are people STILL bringing up SB/IB, IPC, Single thread vs multi ect topics when it is the same argument in the last several hundred pages? Nobody can wait until next week I gather. Jeebus.

OT: I called Fry's in Atlanta and they said they know BD is coming out, but have not heard anymore about just yet, so I guess they know but are not saying.


----------



## huhh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'd say AMD has the advantage if this turns out to be true.

I mean I would never buy one, but a lot of people with slower graphics cards, or even just one will find the reduced price in a gaming rig that doesn't include cpu intensive titles alluring...

The price difference would allow you to grab a decent SSD for the build, while sacrificing little in terms of raw performance, outside of select games and benchmarks of course.


Unless intel lowers their prices even more, kicking AMD while their down. The 2700k will probably lower the price of the 2500k and 2600k.

Also if BD cant compete now, what about ivy bridge?


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mastercode*


well ... the 8 core should be good for me as i have no interest in gaming atall!! .. all i do is video edit and encode alot so the extra cores should be good for me and fellow encoders










Actually according to the Cinebench multi-threaded scores, a 4-core 2600k beats an FX-8150...(unless you weren't being serious?







)

So either keep your 2600k or upgrade to SB-E later on if you want to see true improvement...


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bru_05*


Spiders???


----------



## mastercode

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Actually according to the Cinebench multi-threaded scores, a 4-core 2600k beats an FX-8150...(unless you weren't being serious?







)

So either keep your 2600k or upgrade to SB-E later on if you want to see true improvement...


im going too be keeping my current system and also building a second box with bulldozer cpu but im hanging on too official release so i know then the benchmarks are 100% true ..


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *huhh*


Unless intel lowers their prices even more, kicking AMD while their down. The 2700k will probably lower the price of the 2500k and 2600k.

Also if BD cant compete now, what about ivy bridge?


Maybe 5-10 dollars, at most... If they decide to do that.

You have to remember Intel needs to tread carefully, they can't kill off AMD or they get in big trouble.

Basically all they're trying to do at this point is keep the life raft out for AMD so that ship doesn't sink and they're left with the government stepping in (again).

Intel isn't anywhere close to selling these chips at a loss, they could probably sell them for half what they're charging and still hold a profit margin.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What is the norm, games that use eight cores, or games that use two?

Btw they switched to Nehalem for the gaming comparison, that's a 3.2GHz 1366 i7 they're comparing it with.


Didn't it say that BD had 4gb of ram but the i7 had 6 GB?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Maybe 5-10 dollars, at most... If they decide to do that.

You have to remember Intel needs to tread carefully, they can't kill off AMD or they get in big trouble.

Basically all they're trying to do at this point is keep the life raft out for AMD so that ship doesn't sink and they're left with the government stepping in (again).

Intel isn't anywhere close to selling these chips at a loss, they could probably sell them for half what they're charging and still hold a profit margin.


 IIRC when atom debuted, they had a net cost of chipset/cpu for that platform of about $15 dollars and sold that setup for $160+. Intel has plenty of margin.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


Didn't it say that BD had 4gb of ram but the i7 had 6 GB?


There is so much inconsistency in the benchmarks, I have to really ask what are we going to learn from them. Was that final silicon, was the motherboard bios up to date ? etc etc etc. There are so many variable and the results are just bazaar. the results don't even make sense given the architecture.


----------



## JF-AMD

flashtest said:


> cough... some sources discuss if the press samples are hand-picked 'top-performers' so i would wait to see some real retail users share their success/misfortune with clocking.
> also if the cooler is not mentioned you can assume it's a 570LC or similar solution.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I have always used regular parts, we have never cherry picked things on my side.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *radaja*
> 
> 
> JF-AMD,do you know and can you say whether the FX-41XX and FX-61XX's will be made from native FX-81XX's dies with disabled modules or are they actually different dies with modules taken out,to take less space and save on costs?
> 
> 
> All dies are the same. Actually doing 3 different dies would be more expensive (triple the cost to develop, far more scrap.) Utilizing the same die saves cost.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Intel isn't anywhere close to selling these chips at a loss, they could probably sell them for half what they're charging and still hold a profit margin.


Do we have any idea how much a SB Wafer costs? I forget where i read it but someone had said Intel could sell a 2500K for 50 dollars and still make a large profit.


----------



## willistech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Do we have any idea how much a SB Wafer costs? I forget where i read it but someone had said Intel could sell a 2500K for 50 dollars and still make a large profit.


huh? lol the cost of the chip doesnt just cover materials and then the rest is profit. you have to think about how it got from someones brain to your hands. there is a lot of money in between.


----------



## kchris

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Do we have any idea how much a SB Wafer costs? I forget where i read it but someone had said Intel could sell a 2500K for 50 dollars and still make a large profit.


So what? They deserve their money after racking their brains and coming up with the pinnacle of the technology this business has to offer.


----------



## StepanPepan

I have my 2500K in "saving mode" at default settings with just 42x mutliplier so I could quickly run CNB 10 1 thread score and I got 7049. So if the result from pcmweb.nl is correct (4074), we could conclude, that clocked to the same frequency, 1 bulldozer core is 42% weaker than SB core, when just one thread is calculated.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


Didn't it say that BD had 4gb of ram but the i7 had 6 GB?


Which benchmark did you feel would have benefited from more system ram?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Which benchmark did you feel would have benefited from more system ram?


Not sure why everyone brings up the 4 vs 6gb benchmark. I7 in that test ran Tri channel, the amd ran dual. If the amd system could have ran Tri it would have been 6GB vs 6GB


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All dies are the same. Actually doing 3 different dies would be more expensive (triple the cost to develop, far more scrap.) Utilizing the same die saves cost.


thats what i thought but theres a few people saying the opposite and continually posting AMD would mask off 1 or 2 modules during the manufacturing process to make smaller dies and i thought it sounded ridiculous.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StepanPepan*


I have my 2500K in "saving mode" at default settings with just 42x mutliplier so I could quickly run CNB 10 1 thread score and I got 7049. So if the result from pcmweb.nl is correct (4074), we could conclude, that clocked to the same frequency, 1 bulldozer core is 42% weaker than SB core, when just one thread is calculated.


So that site is prolly wrong, as are any site showing non-official benchmarks.
If anyone thinks that BD will be worse than the current Thubans needs their head checked.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Which benchmark did you feel would have benefited from more system ram?


Every single one of them


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Every single one of them


Outside the CPU, mobo and chipset (Intel system), everything should be exactly the same to eliminate any variables. Same HDD/SSD. Optical, memory (timings and speeds), OS and video card.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Which benchmark did you feel would have benefited from more system ram?


How about the game comparisons?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Every single one of them


Your sig rig is awesome though, can I get some one of those?


----------



## willistech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Outside the CPU, mobo and chipset (Intel system), everything should be exactly the same to eliminate any variables. Same HDD/SSD. Optical, memory (timings and speeds), OS and video card.










please explain how you get an equal amount of tri channel vs dual channel


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


thats what i thought but theres a few people saying the opposite and continually posting AMD would mask off 1 or 2 modules during the manufacturing process to make smaller dies and i thought it sounded ridiculous.


If AMD aren't doing this, they are wasting very exspensive high purity silicon, I'd fire that production manager, oh wait, someone did get fired. 
Wonder why ?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Every single one of them


Cool-Aid overload.

Guys none of those benchmarks uses almost 3gb of system ram... Let's not go there, I'm on Windows 8 so I can't run anything that requires CPUID to work.


----------



## huhh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Every single one of them


More unused memory doesn't increase system speed.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


So that site is prolly wrong, as are any site showing non-official benchmarks.
If anyone thinks that BD will be worse than the current Thubans needs their head checked.


Why do you say its fake? If this website was fishing for page hits then the review wouldn't have been removed.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Cool-Aid overload.

Guys none of those benchmarks uses almost 3gb of system ram... Let's not go there, I'm on Windows 8 so I can't run anything that requires CPUID to work.


And the games?


----------



## newnub123

JF HI, i have a question, is not it so that the software is used in the first moment must be optimized so that software can also try out all sorts of functions, which has the BD =? so that means that all that matters now is benschmarks not evaluable.
I ask this only because I am learning Java for the time. that would explain to me why AMD also says, and you (jf) also no comment

I MEEN LIKE BY THE DUELCORE START!!
pS I USE GOOGLE TO ASK THIS FOR ERRORS PLS SAY GOOGLE LEARN GERMAN !!!

NOW THEY HAVE THEM BACK IN SHOP
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----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


And the games?


No...


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


If AMD aren't doing this, they are wasting very exspensive high purity silicon, I'd fire that production manager, oh wait, someone did get fired. 
Wonder why ?


my god you like to argue








did you read JF's response?it seems AMD thinks its cheaper to waste the extra silicon than making three different dies?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


All dies are the same. Actually doing 3 different dies would be *more expensive (triple the cost to develop, far more scrap.) Utilizing the same die saves cost.*



either way i guess you will continue making you argument


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


my god you like to argue








did you read JF's response?it seems AMD thinks its cheaper to waste the extra silicon than making three different dies?

either way i guess you will continue making you argument










Well, that might explain why they have lower margins. that might explain why the production VP left to.

Becuase if you fial 3 outta 10 regardless of parts per wafer, and then you go and make less units per wafer, your overhead will be double.

I've worked in manufacturing a bit, So if I can get 2x the output out of my line and I don't, I wouldn't expect to keep my job.

There is no difference between lasering off and masking off, except that you can make 2x the parts on the same wafer.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


.../snip

There is no difference between lasering off and masking off, except that you can make 2x the parts on the same wafer.


that's a pretty big difference.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


my god you like to argue








did you read JF's response?it seems AMD thinks its cheaper to waste the extra silicon than making three different dies?

either way i guess you will continue making you argument










You hit the nail







Try explaining him why silicone is cheaper than 3 designs and 3 lines would be equally hard as to teach my goldfish sing an Arch Enemy song. btw surprise intel do this too they just sell you the unlocking http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u4617...hcoupons_0.jpg

edit correction after posting with T9


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


please explain how you get an equal amount of tri channel vs dual channel


i7 1366 have the ability to do dual channel you know

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Cool-Aid overload.

Guys none of those benchmarks uses almost 3gb of system ram... Let's not go there, I'm on Windows 8 so I can't run anything that requires CPUID to work.


32bit Processes: 2GB
OS: 1GB
Shared Video Memory(RAM Swap File): 3x Physical VRAM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *huhh*


More unused memory doesn't increase system speed.


More memory has always lead to better results in my tests

RAM isn't unused it is Randomly Accessed all memory will be used in Random patterns

More Capacity = More Randomness
More RAM Sticks = More Randomness

---
http://www.impulsedriven.com/nostrad...=eml_i10062011


----------



## Benz

I don't understand why do you argue who's right and who's wrong? Nothing will matter anymore in the end when Bulldozer gets released. Stop being so damn insidious.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


that's a pretty big difference.


Not in reality at the functional end is ain't. The whole point of the modular cluster to be able to scale core counts up and down easily.It also preserves silicone by cluster size.

IF AMD failed to monopolize on this, well they get what the deserve in terms of profitability. I would never except this from any engineers I worked with in any field.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


You hit the nail







Try explaining him why silicone is cheaper than 3 designs and 3 lines would be equally hard as to teach my goldfish sing an Arch Enemy song. btw surprise intel do this too they just sell you the unlocking http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u4617...hcoupons_0.jpg

edit correction after posting with T9










 Its one design, the modules are self contained 2 core CPU's. Most of the front end interface wouldn't change.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Not in reality at the functional end is ain't. The whole point of the modular cluster to be able to scale core counts up and down easily.It also preserves silicone by cluster size.

IF AMD failed to monopolize on this, well they get what the deserve in terms of profitability. I would never except this from any engineers I worked with in any field.


...so is it no difference or 2x the difference? Your making very little(no) sense. What makes this difference, if there is one, masking or lazers?

Explain it in layman's terms, I may be able to understand it better then.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *benz*


*this*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mozak...eature=related


*vtec just kicked in yo!*


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


32bit Processes: 2GB
OS: 1GB
Shared Video Memory(RAM Swap File): 3x Physical VRAM

More memory has always lead to better results in my tests

RAM isn't unused it is Randomly Accessed all memory will be used in Random patterns

More Capacity = More Randomness
More RAM Sticks = More Randomness

---
http://www.impulsedriven.com/nostrad...=eml_i10062011


lol 4GB isn't enough to run Cinebench or Dirt 3 now, need moar dimms.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol 4GB isn't enough to run Cinebench or Dirt 3 now, need moar dimms.


Moar DIMMs to go with moar cores!!!!!!


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


You hit the nail







Try explaining him why silicone is cheaper than 3 designs and 3 lines would be equally hard as to teach my goldfish sing an Arch Enemy song. btw surprise intel do this too they just sell you the unlocking http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u4617...hcoupons_0.jpg

edit correction after posting with T9










Are u saying Angela Gossow sounds like a fish?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


...so is it no difference or 2x the difference? Your making very little(no) sense. What makes this difference, if there is one, masking or lazers?

Explain it in layman's terms, I may be able to understand it better then.


a 8 core die uses up 315mm2 a 4 core "given front end size is around 10-15% of die should be around 175mm2. Mind you these are rumored sizes for the BD 8 core die

so how many more chips can you fit on a wafer if you product is half as large ?

about double. wafer are not getting larger. I'd be furious if I was the head of production and engineering handed my this huge waste. I mean I can understand if you have fialed 8 core parts making those ino 6 core and 4 core parts, thats just good cost recovery. but to make a 8 core cpu to make it into a 4 core, thats just stupid. Plus even if deffect rates per wafer stay flat, your still getting 50%quantity on the common 4 core part per wafer. those wafers aren't cheap.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *huhh*


Because they've been working on it for a long time. I'm sure they assumed they could improve their CPUs with new architecture. Can't really just throw away years of R&D...the shareholders would be mad if they did that.


Shareholders would be just as angry over a design AMD spent years on,yet slower than a PHII,when the engineers could have saved a crapload of money by die shrinking the Phenom II and revising the IMC


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


a 8 core die uses up 315mm2 a 4 core "given front end size is around 10-15% of die should be around 175mm2. Mind you these are rumored sizes for the BD 8 core die

so how many more chips can you fit on a wafer if you product is half as large ?

about double. wafer are not getting larger. I'd be furious if I was the head of production and engineering handed my this huge waste. I mean I can understand if you have fialed 8 core parts making those ino 6 core and 4 core parts, thats just good cost recovery. but to make a 8 core cpu to make it into a 4 core, thats just stupid. Plus even if deffect rates per wafer stay flat, your still getting 50%quantity on the common 4 core part per wafer. those wafers aren't cheap.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*












it was posted by the guy who argues that Bulldozer was never delayed, what more can we expect?









The question we should all be asking is, why is AMD charging different prices for the EXACT same chip?









I've said it sooo many times before, I am convinced that some x4 & x6 BD's WILL unlock.


----------



## Madclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


I don't understand why do you argue who's right and who's wrong? Nothing will matter anymore in the end when Bulldozer gets released. Stop being so damn insidious.


Seronx cannot even list real system specs! Why argue with someone who lives in fantasy land!!!!


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


it was posted by the guy who argues that Bulldozer was never delayed, what more can we expect?









I've said it sooo many times before, I am convinced that some x4 & x6 BD's WILL unlock.










soon the argument will move to size 6 font


----------



## willistech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


i7 1366 have the ability to do dual channel you know


RIGHT and then someone like you will come along and say this isnt accurate they should be using tri channel. i'm over this thread.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *M3TAl*


Are u saying Angela Gossow sounds like a fish?










OffT
Sorry i can comment on that only at launch 09.12








(They are touring America afaik, can't wait till they come back to Germany -she is even better live.)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*












Funny how a single emoticon can make me lough more than a whole episode of Family guy Thanks


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *willistech*


right and then someone like you will come along and say this isnt accurate they should be using tri channel. I'm over this thread.


GL with your future endeavors.


----------



## Canis-X

^ I concur!


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


thats what i thought but theres a few people saying the opposite and continually posting AMD would mask off 1 or 2 modules during the manufacturing process to make smaller dies and i thought it sounded ridiculous.


It doesn't work like that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


If AMD aren't doing this, they are wasting very exspensive high purity silicon, I'd fire that production manager, oh wait, someone did get fired. 
Wonder why ?


Wow, don't take this the wrong way, but you really don't understand how this business works.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *newnub123*


JF HI, i have a question, is not it so that the software is used in the first moment must be optimized so that software can also try out all sorts of functions, which has the BD =? so that means that all that matters now is benschmarks not evaluable.
I ask this only because I am learning Java for the time. that would explain to me why AMD also says, and you (jf) also no comment

I MEEN LIKE BY THE DUELCORE START!!
pS I USE GOOGLE TO ASK THIS FOR ERRORS PLS SAY GOOGLE LEARN GERMAN !!!


Ich spreche kleine Deutsch, aber ich verstehe nicht.

Really, just can't figure out what you are asking.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Well, that might explain why they have lower margins. that might explain why the production VP left to.

Becuase if you fial 3 outta 10 regardless of parts per wafer, and then you go and make less units per wafer, your overhead will be double.

I've worked in manufacturing a bit, So if I can get 2x the output out of my line and I don't, I wouldn't expect to keep my job.

There is no difference between lasering off and masking off, except that you can make 2x the parts on the same wafer.


Further proof for my statement above. Trust me, it just doesn't work like that. Whether you care to accept it or not, having 2 designs, trying to manage inventory to those three designs is far more costly than a single flexible design. We've done the math.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


a 8 core die uses up 315mm2 a 4 core "given front end size is around 10-15% of die should be around 175mm2. Mind you these are rumored sizes for the BD 8 core die

so how many more chips can you fit on a wafer if you product is half as large ?

about double. wafer are not getting larger. I'd be furious if I was the head of production and engineering handed my this huge waste. I mean I can understand if you have fialed 8 core parts making those ino 6 core and 4 core parts, thats just good cost recovery. but to make a 8 core cpu to make it into a 4 core, thats just stupid. Plus even if deffect rates per wafer stay flat, your still getting 50%quantity on the common 4 core part per wafer. those wafers aren't cheap.


Yep, you keep proving my point. Triple development costs. Triple engineering costs. Triple inventory costs. No recovery for silicon.

Really, the business doesn't work like that. Think about this for a second: 8 core die, one module is bad. In your model that is scrap, but the way it works today, that is a 6-core with practically zero cost.

In your model you build up a ton of 8-core wafers. Best buy wants a million 4-cores. In your model, its start up more wafers. In my model you can deliver parts faster.

Your numbers and assumptions are all off because you don't understand wafer/design geometries. A 4 core is nowhere near half the size as an 8-core and because wafers are round, the dynamics change even more.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


It doesn't work like that.


yea i know,i wasnt the one who thought this.i said it was "ridiculous",can you guess who i was refering to^^^ when i asked you this,he has a knack for thinking with his head inside a soundproof box


----------



## BigCactus

Most wafers are square/rectangular







, not round actually.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15206152*
> Most wafers are square/rectangular
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , not round actually.


You're confusing a Wafer with a CPU.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15206136*
> Run those tests a few times, and min FPS varies.
> 
> I would also look at consistency across the board.


Heaven Benchmark never had inconsistent min fps for me


----------



## radaja

those circled areas are sure wasteful maybe they can make
some FX4100's or FX2100 dualcores for the smaller areas
maybe thats what SCollins means:lachen:


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15206199*
> Heaven Benchmark never had inconsistent min fps for me


I would do some runs, but I really don't care to prove it that much.









I've see inconsistent min FPS several times.

Anyway, I'd still choose the one with the highest scores, when I look at all the other higher scores as well, considering one is running at 3.4 and other other 3.6.









Not to mention the new chip's IPC doesn't beat the IPC of the chip it's replacing. Get my drift?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Before more and more people jump on the "Faildozer" bandwagon, keep in mind there are still no official reviews out.
If you want to jump to unreasonable conclusions, keep it to yourself.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15206339*
> Not the same test setup. Nvidia drivers are different. Faked.


I see that now,both have different versions of Nvidia drivers. Thx for pointing it out.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15206378*
> Before more and more people jump on the "Faildozer" bandwagon, keep in mind there are still no official reviews out.
> If you want to jump to unreasonable conclusions, keep it to yourself.


It's only 6 more days to go. ( hopefully )

What will you say then IF all these "fake" benchmarks and reviews we've seen for the past few months, turn out to be true?


----------



## Tweeky

Is it time to order yet?


----------



## Madclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15206440*
> AMD FX can do one more op per cycle than AMD Phenom II but regardless that extra op is useless
> 
> Ops per Second has obviously increased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.....I get the same score as Bulldozer somewhat darn my DDR2


Are you ever going to post actual system specs and not BS. It is no shame to say you do not have a computer at all! It is a shame to post fantasy specs!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15206541*
> Why are you hoping for faked or skewed benchmarks to be true?


I'm not hoping for them to be true, but I see the reality in what's happening, while others are in denial.

How can anyone be happy if AMD's new CPU has a lower IPC then Phenom II?

It sucks for all of us if this is true.


----------



## BankaiKiller

hungry for 8 core 4ghz auto turbo


----------



## 0x62 0x70

I lol at the people here who think they know about wafer manufacturing. Go take an IEOR class or something.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15206598*
> I'm not hoping for them to be true, but I see the reality in what's happening, while others are in denial.
> 
> How can anyone be happy if AMD's new CPU has a lower IPC then Phenom II?
> 
> It sucks for all of us if this is true.


If the testing was done with a presskit,the chip could be an ES.


----------



## macca_dj

*AMD's FX-8150 Desktop Bulldozer CPU Listed in Europe*

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-s-FX-8150-Desktop-Bulldozer-CPU-Listed-in-Europe-225964.shtml


----------



## Tweeky

When will the 10 core bulldozer be released?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15206440*
> AMD FX can do one more op per cycle than AMD Phenom II but regardless that extra op is useless
> Ops per Second has obviously increased
> http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8693/heavenbenchmark.png
> Interesting.....I get the same score as Bulldozer somewhat darn my DDR2


But does ops per second make a difference in games?
Btw,what are your real system specs?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madclock;15206593*
> Are you ever going to post actual system specs and not BS. It is no shame to say you do not have a computer at all! It is a shame to post fantasy specs!


Done
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;15206719*
> When will the 10 core bulldozer be released?


12 core H1-H2 2013
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15206740*
> But does ops per second make a difference in games?
> Btw,what are your real system specs?


Yes, more ops equals more min fps


----------



## 0x62 0x70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15206267*
> those circled areas are sure wasteful maybe they can make
> some FX4100's or FX2100 dualcores for the smaller areas
> maybe thats what SCollins means:lachen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> They're wasteful, but trust me, they're accounted for in the chip design process...If anything it's one of the first things you do when trying to estimate the cost of an IC. You can actually make an accurate estimate (of maximum dies per wafer ) using this formula:
> 
> Dies/wafer = { [ pi*(wafer_diameter/2)^2 ] / die_area } - [ ( pi*wafer_diameter ) / sqrt(2 * die_area ) ]
> 
> Now if you knew you could make a pretty good estimate, you can come up with elaborate ways to optimize the process.
> 
> edit: and you can even estimate die yield depending on the fabrication process (based on empirical data from tons of lines -- over time)


----------



## Madclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15206750*
> Done
> 
> 12 core H1-H2 2013
> 
> Yes, more ops equals more min fps


1st class! You have some honor! + rep


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15206358*
> Not to mention the new chip's IPC doesn't beat the IPC of the chip it's replacing. Get my drift?


Once again where is your proof that the IPC is lower? IPC is a huge variable and you still act as if it is a make or break number when it really is not a true measure of the CPU.



























































What is the deal with posters trashing BD when there is no solid proof or legit benchmarks out yet? Oh wait, that has been asked before but people keep going on ignoring those facts.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15207065*
> Once again where is your proof that the IPC is lower? IPC is a huge variable and you still act as if it is a make or break number when it really is not a true measure of the CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the deal with posters trashing BD when there is no solid proof or legit benchmarks out yet? Oh wait, that has been asked before but people keep going on ignoring those facts.


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcmweb.nl%2Fhardware%2Fcomponenten%2Fprocessoren%2Ffx-8150

Call this fake if it suits you.

Come 6 days we'll know the truth, and we'll know if everything that was once called "fake" was actually true.

This review was pre-maturely put online by this PC Magazine.

I guarantee you, come October 12th, that exact same review will be posted on their website at this URL:
http://www.pcmweb.nl/hardware/componenten/processoren/fx-8150

No one is "trashing" Bulldozer, but merely reporting the numbers that are known to us. You take this whole matter so personally, perhaps, you know deep down, that there's a chance all of this could be true.

Why don't you ask JF-AMD if a press kit was sent to:
Personal Computer Magazine - http://www.pcmweb.nl

If he can't comment, which I'm sure he can't, we'll find out soon enough.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15207286*
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcmweb.nl%2Fhardware%2Fcomponenten%2Fprocessoren%2Ffx-8150
> 
> Call this fake if it suits you.
> 
> Come 6 days we'll know the truth, and we'll know if everything that was once called "fake" was actually true.
> 
> This review was pre-maturely put online by this PC Magazine.
> 
> I guarantee you, come October 12th, that exact same review will be posted on their website at this URL:
> http://www.pcmweb.nl/hardware/componenten/processoren/fx-8150
> 
> No one is "trashing" Bulldozer, but merely reporting the numbers that are known to us. You take this whole matter so personally, perhaps, you know deep down, that there's a chance all of this could be true.
> 
> Why don't you ask JF-AMD if a press kit was sent to:
> Personal Computer Magazine - http://www.pcmweb.nl
> 
> If he can't comment, which I'm sure he can't, we'll find out soon enough.


Well, you have your answers. Did you order your Intel components yet?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15207286*
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcmweb.nl%2Fhardware%2Fcomponenten%2Fprocessoren%2Ffx-8150
> 
> Call this fake if it suits you.
> 
> Come 6 days we'll know the truth, and we'll know if everything that was once called "fake" was actually true.
> 
> This review was pre-maturely put online by this PC Magazine.
> 
> I guarantee you, come October 12th, that exact same review will be posted on their website at this URL:
> http://www.pcmweb.nl/hardware/componenten/processoren/fx-8150
> 
> No one is "trashing" Bulldozer, but merely reporting the numbers that are known to us. You take this whole matter so personally, perhaps, you know deep down, that there's a chance all of this could be true.
> 
> Why don't you ask JF-AMD if a press kit was sent to:
> Personal Computer Magazine - http://www.pcmweb.nl
> 
> If he can't comment, which I'm sure he can't, we'll find out soon enough.


So you are saying nothing is fake because of once source which could be posting fake crap?
Show us multiple sources that you don't have to enter through Google Translate.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15207501*
> So you are saying nothing is fake because of once source which could be posting fake crap?


Where have we heard that excuse before?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15207509*
> Where have we heard that excuse before?


I didn't hear an excuse there. Care to elaborate?


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207514*
> I didn't hear an excuse there. Care to elaborate?


WOAH. Intel doesn't have girls in tube tops. +1 to AMD


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15207509*
> Where have we heard that excuse before?


Excuse? Care to tell me where I made an excuse? I might as well have responded to your post saying "cool story bro".
Gotta love the Intel fanboys in this thread hoping that BD is a fail.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15207541*
> WOAH. Intel doesn't have girls in tube tops. +1 to AMD


I call it Boobdozer.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207568*
> I call it Boobdozer.


I'd buy that


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15207580*
> I'd buy that


It depends on the silicon.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207596*
> It depends on the silicon.


Haaaaaaa I get it


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207596*
> It depends on the silicon.


We all know by now - all silicon isn't created equal.


----------



## mystikalrush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207596*
> It depends on the silicon.


LOL Classic!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207439*
> Well, you have your answers. Did you order your Intel components yet?


I'll let you know the answer in a few hours, the wife is waiting, as we're heading out. Don't worry, my answer won't be delayed that long, and it's not like you really care anyway.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15207666*
> I'll let you know the answer in a few hours, the wife is waiting, as we're heading out. Don't worry, my answer won't be delayed that long, and it's not like you really care anyway.


It makes a good conversation piece though, doesn't it?


----------



## crshbndct

Something just occured to me - I wonder how bulldozer will do in Windows 8 Benchmarks vs Windows 7.. I am sure there is some optimisation in the newer software vs the old for the newer architecture. Can JF-AMD comment on this?


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crshbndct;15207894*
> Something just occured to me - I wonder how bulldozer will do in Windows 8 Benchmarks vs Windows 7.. I am sure there is some optimisation in the newer software vs the old for the newer architecture. Can JF-AMD comment on this?


dont know about benchmarks but heres some info on FPS in games with Windows 8


----------



## crshbndct

thats exactly what i mean, i know not what schedulers are or do(nor do i have any interest) , although i have a pretty reasonable idea what is does and possibly a new scheduler will make use of the new orchitecture better.. maybe those 4 and 2% will change to like 20 and 18 percent or something. new hardware require new software to work efficiently.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15207972*
> dont know about benchmarks but heres some info on FPS in games with Windows 8


That would be great but whats the base system running under that ?

AMD or Wintel


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15208214*
> That would be great but whats the base system running under that ?
> 
> AMD or Wintel


Most likely a FX 8150.

Another new slide:


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15208375*
> Most likely a FX 8150.
> 
> Another new slide:


If that's real, I'm fine with it. Battlefield 3 is just the beginning.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15207552*
> Gotta love the Intel fanboys in this thread hoping that BD is a fail.


It's not a fail yet it seems the amd fans will call it a fail if it doesn't beat a 2600K which everyone assumes it will but it doesn't.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208420*
> If that's real, I'm fine with it. Battlefield 3 is just the beginning.


From what I have read BF3 has begun and ended EA FAIL















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208444*
> It's not a fail yet it seems the amd fans will call it a fail if it doesn't beat a 2600K which everyone assumes it will but it doesn't.


Why are you Wintel trolls







even in here its an AMD thread


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15208375*
> Most likely a FX 8150.
> 
> Another new slide:


Obviously a gpu limited benchmark. Looks like they used a 6770

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15208462*
> Why are you Wintel trolls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even in here its an AMD thread


So just because i own SB i can't be interested in BD results?







Why are you so defensive?


----------



## giver660

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15208375*
> Most likely a FX 8150.
> 
> Another new slide:


I'm pretty ignorant on the gaming side of things, but how can this be true considering the 1100t doesn't come anywhere close (as far as FPS is concerned) to the 2600k on every other review I've ever seen? Is that an incredibly AMD biased graph or something? Or maybe the systems were limited otherwise, such as GPU?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15208462*
> From what I have read BF3 has begun and ended EA FAIL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you Wintel trolls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even in here its an AMD thread


It's still my most anticipated game by far, but I was talking about game developers supporting multiple threads.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *giver660;15208490*
> I'm pretty ignorant on the gaming side of things, but how can this be true considering the 1100t doesn't come anywhere close (as far as FPS is concerned) to the 2600k on every other review I've ever seen? Is that an incredibly AMD biased graph or something? Or maybe the systems were limited otherwise, such as GPU?


GPU limited slide meaning they probably used a 6770 or other low end gpu


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208503*
> GPU limited slide meaning they probably used a 6770 or other low end gpu


Yeah, because a 6770 could push 30+ frames out of Battlefield 3.


----------



## BigCactus

Maybe the whole reason why AMD isn't releasing bulldozer is because it just isn't as fast as the Intel predecessors. Another theory.


----------



## macca_dj

Its a shame that this thread lays its way to the hall of doom,


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208543*
> Yeah, because a 6770 could push 30+ frames out of Battlefield 3.


My Mistake. 6870, 560 Ti


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208578*
> My Mistake. 6870, 560 Ti


That's the beta, which only runs on high. Try again?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208603*
> That's the beta, which only runs on high. Try again?


What for? So i could make a guess what gpu they ran? I don't care









Amd Propaganda slides are worse then leaked benchmarks. They're all faked to make amd look better then intel.

Amd : Oh lets compare bulldozer to a 990X because it's a thousand dollars and even if its slower we could spin it as you save lots of money buying our product
Consumer : What about the 2600K?
Amd : 2600K? Don't ask stupid questions


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208622*
> What for? So i could make a guess what gpu they ran? I sure don't care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amd Propaganda slides are worse then leaked benchmarks. They're all faked to make amd look better then intel.


Sort of like Intel's bentmarks?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208631*
> Sort of like Intel's bentmarks?


I seem to remember Anand covering the Intel's ivy bridge announcement and i don't remember seeing them compare there processors to amd in any of the slides he took pictures of.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208678*
> I seem to remember Anand covering the Intel's ivy bridge announcement and i don't remember seeing them compare there processors to amd in any of the slides he took pictures of.


And that has what to do with anything Bulldozer related?


----------



## NateN34

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208420*
> If that's real, I'm fine with it. Battlefield 3 is just the beginning.


This is a bias and false graph, if I have ever seen one.

The game is GPU limited, not CPU with the 2600k, etc. Nice try AMD, spread your propaganda more, but the truth will speak when the processor is released.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15208741*
> This is a bias and false graph, if I have ever seen one.
> 
> The game is GPU limited, not CPU with the 2600k, etc. Nice try AMD, spread your propaganda more, but the truth will speak when the processor is released.


I find it funny how you Intel guys get all defensive and call "fake" when something shows Bulldozer in a positive light, but you're the first to spread it as gospel when it's something negative.

What dumbfounds you about an 8 core CPU being able to beat a 4 core CPU with 4 weak threads in a multithreaded game?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208773*
> I find it funny how you Intel guys get all defensive and call "fake" when something shows Bulldozer in a positive light, but you're the first to spread it as gospel when it's something negative.
> 
> What dumbfounds you about an 8 core CPU being able to beat a 4 core CPU with 4 weak threads in a multithreaded game?


I'm back, I see you're having a friendly convo, are you still interested in my upgrade plans?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15208795*
> I'm back, I see you're having a friendly convo, are you still interested in my upgrade plans?


Always my friend. And even if we don't always see eye to eye, I'll miss you around these parts if you're going Intel.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208444*
> It's not a fail yet it seems the amd fans will call it a fail if it doesn't beat a 2600K which everyone assumes it will but it doesn't.


It doesn't? Where's the legit benchmarks proving it doesn't?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208487*
> Obviously a gpu limited benchmark. Looks like they used a 6770
> So just because i own SB i can't be interested in BD results?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you so defensive?


The only thing you're interested in is for BD to fail.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15208631*
> Sort of like Intel's bentmarks?











So it's just fine when Intel does it,but when AMD does it,it's fake?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15205127*
> it was posted by the guy who argues that Bulldozer was never delayed, what more can we expect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question we should all be asking is, why is AMD charging different prices for the EXACT same chip?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've said it sooo many times before, I am convinced that some x4 & x6 BD's WILL unlock.










Usability my friend, Usability.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15208900*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's just fine when Intel does it,but when AMD does it,it's fake BS?


I'm definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. But, working with what I've got here, that's the conclusion I've come to.


----------



## 2010rig

Ok, well, since you still want to know.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207439*
> Well, you have your answers. Did you order your Intel components yet?


Nope, I have a couple other options to consider, because even after all of this, I may still buy a Bulldozer.









I await unlocking results, because if my suspicions are true, buying a quad BD and unlocking it would be a killer price / performance ratio that Intel can't possibly match.

Even if BD doesn't beat SB, AMD is still going to price it well enough to make it a considerable option. They kinda have to, to compete.

Plus, since I've waited 10 months now for Bulldozer, I might as well wait for SB-E to come out next month. If I build an SB-E rig, the wife will get my current rig.

I'm not leaving this thread yet, I'll tone it down, it's just been a long wait, and I really was hoping AMD would come through and beat Intel. Based on what we've been seen all year, it just doesn't seem like they will.

I have way more AMD rigs than I do Intel rigs, so that's why I waited and have been keeping track.

Are you still buying BD or sticking with your current rig?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15205127*
> The question we should all be asking is, why is AMD charging different prices for the EXACT same chip?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've said it sooo many times before, I am convinced that some x4 & x6 BD's WILL unlock.


Intel does the same thing.
No 9xx series board has a unlock feature (that I'm aware of anyway) however that may be a easy software fix.
It is good for everyone,AMD can use more of the chips instead of scrapping the ones that don't work as a 8 core,and the consumer gets more choices,with hopefully some hidden cores to unlock in the 4 and 6 core FX chips.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15208976*
> Ok, well, since you still want to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I have a couple other options to consider, because even after all of this, I may still buy a Bulldozer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I await unlocking results, because if my suspicions are true, buying a quad BD and unlocking it would be a killer price / performance ratio that Intel can't possibly match.
> 
> Even if BD doesn't beat SB, AMD is still going to price it well enough to make it a considerable option. They kinda have to, to compete.
> 
> Plus, since I've waited 10 months now for Bulldozer, I might as well wait for SB-E to come out next month. If I build an SB-E rig, the wife will get my current rig.
> 
> I'm not leaving this thread yet, I'll tone it down, it's just been a long wait, and I really was hoping AMD would come through and beat Intel. Based on what we've been seen all year, it just doesn't seem like they will.
> 
> I have way more AMD rigs than I do Intel rigs, so that's why I waited and have been keeping track.
> 
> Are you still buying BD or sticking with your current rig?


It's good to know you'll be sticking around. If that Battlefield 3 chart is true, I'll be upgrading because that is what made me want to upgrade in the first place.

Only 6 days until we find out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15209012*
> Intel does the same thing.
> No 9xx series board has a unlock feature (that I'm aware of anyway) however that may be a easy software fix.
> It is good for everyone,AMD can use more of the chips instead of scrapping the ones that don't work as a 8 core,and the consumer gets more choices,with hopefully some hidden cores to unlock in the 4 and 6 core FX chips.


My Crosshair has an unlock option in the BIOS. I don't know if it works though.


----------



## Evil Penguin

A lot of signs are pointing towards a release on the 12th, but it's still not confirmed?
Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15206085*
> 
> From the one who shall not be named
> 
> Which one would you buy?
> 
> The one with the higher score or the one with the higher min fps?


Min, easily.

Why? Well, the minimum is nearly at 60fps, if it's around that area all the time it'll still be smoother than the 2600k occasionally dipping to 30ish.

That said, how about we wait the tiny amount of time it'll take to get some real, confirmed BD benchies?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15206422*
> It's only 6 more days to go. ( hopefully )
> 
> What will you say then IF all these "fake" benchmarks and reviews we've seen for the past few months, turn out to be true?


Then it is a fail and we actually have proof of it, as opposed to saying "ITS A FAIL" without any proof as, ahem, certain people are doing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15206598*
> I'm not hoping for them to be true, but I see the reality in what's happening, while others are in denial.
> 
> How can anyone be happy if AMD's new CPU has a lower IPC then Phenom II?


You see faked/very unofficial benchmarks, we have no idea if it's real or not, it's better to wait until the actual reviews come out instead of trolling.

And no-one will be happy if it does, no-one except reviewers and AMD currently know if it is or isn't though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208444*
> It's not a fail yet it seems the amd fans will call it a fail if it doesn't beat a 2600K which everyone assumes it will but it doesn't.


I think it'll win in multi-threading, but lose in single-threads and overclock higher, making up the deficit.

Also, where's your proof that BD doesn't beat a 2600k? and I mean real world, proven to be real (ie. From Anand, Guru3D, TechPowerUp, etc) benchmarks, not 3DMark, Cinebench and PassMark.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15208678*
> I seem to remember Anand covering the Intel's ivy bridge announcement and i don't remember seeing them compare there processors to amd in any of the slides he took pictures of.


Intel do it too, as does nVidia, as did ATi, etc.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15205407*
> .../snip
> Funny how a single emoticon can make me lough more than a whole episode of Family guy Thanks


My name is Seth Mcfarlane and I approves this message
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0x62 0x70;15206634*
> I lol at the people here who think they know about wafer manufacturing. Go take an IEOR class or something.


I was sinkerd






















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15207596*
> It depends on the silicon.


I see what you did there. Could be a double, maybe even quadruple entendre, i like iiit. +1
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crshbndct;15208095*
> thats exactly what i mean, i know not what schedulers are or do(nor do i have any interest) , although i have a pretty reasonable idea what is does and possibly a new scheduler will make use of the new orchitecture better.. maybe those 4 and 2% will change to like 20 and 18 percent or something. new hardware require new software to work efficiently.


+1 for
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15209023*
> It's good to know you'll be sticking around. If that Battlefield 3 chart is true, I'll be upgrading because that is what made me want to upgrade in the first place.
> 
> Only 6 days until we find out.


*crosses fingers* This is kinda like before I had my first child. I didn't know when he was due, I got really tense as it got closer to the due date. I knew the due date could change, and didn't know if he was going to be good or bad, but still loved him anyways.

Now my second child....

--

@JF, thanks for the clarification







. I suspected that was the process. WOOT!
What quarter is interlagos launching? I really wanna see some silicone pr0n!


----------



## newnub123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15205922*
> 
> Ich spreche kleine Deutsch, aber ich verstehe nicht.
> 
> Really, just can't figure out what you are asking.


ok i try it one more time this was from google
JF HI, i have a question, is not it so that the software is used in the first moment must be optimized so that software can also try out all sorts of functions, which has the BD =? so that means that all that matters now is benschmarks not evaluable.
I ask this only because I am learning Java for the time. that would explain to me why AMD also says, and you (jf) also no comment

I MEEN LIKE BY THE DUELCORE START!!
pS I USE GOOGLE TO ASK THIS FOR ERRORS PLS SAY GOOGLE LEARN GERMAN !!!(learn german is a joke )

so i try now with my own english maybe it is better who know ?
so J_F i meen if me is right the software what is for benschmarks in mom
is not optimized for the new Arichtec. of BD or is me wrong cuase as the duel core cpus come out , the software need to be update that it can use all function of the cpu(duelcore). so if it was so then i think , we all have to wait the software optimized , that it is can handel all what is possibel with the new BD , because the bulldozer some new functino in as a phonom II or a duelcore Athlon x2 , so is me wrong or is me right ? need the software an optimized for the BD thats all run fine
or not?= thats all







. i would say the software need to be optimized !! can usay if me is wrong pls


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15208214*
> That would be great but whats the base system running under that ?
> 
> AMD or Wintel


AMD. That's an AMD slide.

I actually might get windows 8 if there's performance increases like that.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15209012*
> Intel does the same thing.
> No 9xx series board has a unlock feature (that I'm aware of anyway) however that may be a easy software fix.
> It is good for everyone,AMD can use more of the chips instead of scrapping the ones that don't work as a 8 core,and the consumer gets more choices,with hopefully some hidden cores to unlock in the 4 and 6 core FX chips.


My Sabertooth can unlock Phenom II's - I have an X2 running four cores as we speak. Big question is - can the bulldozers be unlocked??


----------



## pcclock

Its supposed to. 31x unlocked multiplier. According to the 8ghz overclock pictures. "Fact" pictures, not made up pics like come here all the time in this topic.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newnub123;15209302*


afaik, the new Bulldozer has no new instructions (sse4_2/AVX may count as new for AMD but don't hold me on that) When the first X2 came out there were almost no applications and no optimized benchmarks, now the market is full of multi-thread benchmarks and even a few Applications use more than 4 cores (you can check some review on Phenom II X4 vs Phenom II X6 to see where most improvement should be from more cores)
AMD are not commenting till launch and that includes not commenting the reason for not commenting









Soweit ich weiß hat der neue Chip keine neuen Instruktionen (ein paar die vielleicht als neu für AMD zählen, aber intel benutzt die seit Jahren AVX-SSE 4.2)
Wann der X2 raus gekommen ist gab es keine Software die Multithreading richtig nutzte das ist jetzt nicht der Fall, Du kannst leicht sehen das Phenom X6 gegen Phenom X4 in vielen Benchmarks und Apps die 2 Extra Kerne nutzt.
AMD haben gesagt das Sie den Grund für die Verpestung nicht kommentieren werden mindestens bis Verkaufsanfang, Der auch noch nicht bestätigt ist.
MfG


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


afaik, the new Bulldozer has no new instructions (sse4_2/AVX may count as new for AMD but don't hold me on that) When the first X2 came out there were almost no applications and no optimized benchmarks, now the market is full of multi-thread benchmarks and even a few Applications use more than 4 cores (you can check some review on Phenom II X4 vs Phenom II X6 to see where most improvement should be from more cores)
AMD are not commenting till launch and that includes not commenting the reason for not commenting









Soweit ich weiÃŸ hat der neue Chip keine neuen Instruktionen (ein paar die vielleicht als neu fÃ¼r AMD zÃ¤hlen, aber intel benutzt die seit Jahren AVX-SSE 4.2)
Wann der X2 raus gekommen ist gab es keine Software die Multithreading richtig nutzte das ist jetzt nicht der Fall, Du kannst leicht sehen das Phenom X6 gegen Phenom X4 in vielen Benchmarks und Apps die 2 Extra Kerne nutzt.
AMD haben gesagt das Sie den Grund fÃ¼r die Verpestung nicht kommentieren werden mindestens bis Verkaufsanfang, Der auch noch nicht bestÃ¤tigt ist.
MfG


That explains a lot.









Bulldozer has 2 new instructions XOP and FMA4.


----------



## Benz

http://www.chw.net/2010/04/amd-bulldozer-en-exclusiva/all/1/

These are the Bulldozer early benchmarks B0 stepping.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15210802*
> http://www.chw.net/2010/04/amd-bulldozer-en-exclusiva/all/1/
> 
> These are the Bulldozer early benchmarks B0 stepping.


I think you missed the April Fools


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I think you missed the April Fools



LOL i still remember ...


----------



## pioneerisloud

Enough is enough.

Closing this thread (yet AGAIN). Infractions due to be handed out. Don't expect this thread to open again anytime soon, seeing as how there's quite a bit of cleaning to do. Expect at least 24 hours.


----------



## pioneerisloud

I think this might be worthy enough to post....

Special thanks to Slappy Mcgee for bringing this to my attention.








http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/06/getyourrigready/

Thread still needs cleaned, so its staying closed. But I figured some of you that lurk this thread might like to see the above link.

~pio


----------



## flashtest

Thank you for the work you did cleaning the mess up,
Are we allowed to discuss things like 
http://i51.tinypic.com/2iu2fed.jpg
http://www.xfastest.com//attachments...e47e4df6ff.jpg
or does the thread stay for official announcements and their discussions only?


----------



## etlecho

I hope this is OK to post:

Some more images here, but this doesn't look like a presskit. This is the 8150 with an air cooler that doesn't look that big. I've seen some images with a water cooler as well.

EDIT: Should have said that he/she doesn't dipslay anything other than the box, which is wierd.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Despite all the news and "signs" that indicate a launch next week, I'm having a hard time believing it. 
Meh, I have 300 bucks just waiting to be used on a 8150.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


I hope this is OK to post:

Some more images here, but this doesn't look like a presskit. This is the 8150 with an air cooler that doesn't look that big. I've seen some images with a water cooler as well.

EDIT: Should have said that he/she doesn't dipslay anything other than the box, which is wierd.


amd's heatsink never really changed over time

why change a good design afterall ?


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


http://www.xfastest.com//attachments...e47e4df6ff.jpg


Antec Kuhler H2O 920 Eh? I guess you don't get the LED color changing Antec logo with that big FX sticker.


----------



## Darkpriest667

If yesterday proved anything it proved a lot of people are eager for this AMD news. 30 minutes after that blog was posted by AMD their entire site was shut down for about 40 minutes.

The blog didn't tell us anything we don't already know. What it did do, was pretty much confirm the NDA is going to be lifted this month and the 12th does sound pretty realistic. I've been ready for almost a month. Some poor souls have been ready since June and earlier. I hope it is the 12th.

@JF Is there going to be enough supply to actually meet the demand? I mean we have heard a lot of speculation about problems at global foundries which Im sure you can't get into. But lets say ballpark.. 50,000 people in the U.S. want the chip right now. Is AMD going to have enough to meet demand?


----------



## davieg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *M3TAl*


Antec Kuhler H2O 920 Eh? I guess you don't get the LED color changing Antec logo with that big FX sticker.


Th FX part of the pump looks like its actually a light from the pics there, rather than just a sticker, plus the side of the box still mentions an LED.
So it looks like there would be an illuminated FX symbol in the middle of the heatsink.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


If yesterday proved anything it proved a lot of people are eager for this AMD news. 30 minutes after that blog was posted by AMD their entire site was shut down for about 40 minutes.

The blog didn't tell us anything we don't already know. What it did do, was pretty much confirm the NDA is going to be lifted this month and the 12th does sound pretty realistic. I've been ready for almost a month. Some poor souls have been ready since June and earlier. I hope it is the 12th.

@JF Is there going to be enough supply to actually meet the demand? I mean we have heard a lot of speculation about problems at global foundries which Im sure you can't get into. But lets say ballpark.. 50,000 people in the U.S. want the chip right now. Is AMD going to have enough to meet demand?



responding about the demand would in itself answer the global foundry rumor ... and i doubt its johns place to even comment on those


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


responding about the demand would in itself answer the global foundry rumor ... and i doubt its johns place to even comment on those


Touche.. its early precoffee let me rephrase it

@JF --- What do you guys believe the global demand is going to be for these chips?


----------



## crshbndct

I don't know if I read it here, or somewhere else, but I thought it was a valid point:

When was the last time you saw a GPU Review where they spoke of IPC (or the GPU equivalent)? I.E. Does anyone really care about what GHz a chip runs at, vs how it competes in its price sector.. which is exactly how the GPU's are marketed and rated. 
Maybe I am just being a dingle, but all I am worried about is whether the 4100 will beat my 4ghz athlon 2 x2 260.. which is more than fast enough for me atm


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

I was all kinds of ready to get the BD chip as soon as it is released, I'm even going to go pick up my new mobo from microcenter today. Then last night a good friend of mine pointed somthing out, I'm holding off on getting my BD chip for a bit in hope's of a second revision. Kinda like with PII the c3 chip is the one to get. Any one else on this same though path?


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Touche.. its early precoffee let me rephrase it

@JF --- What do you guys believe the global demand is going to be for these chips?


A. I could never comment on that.

B. ESPECIALLY during quiet period.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


A. I could never comment on that.

B. ESPECIALLY during quiet period.



Well you can't blame a guy for trying.

@JF- My concern here is that so many of us have been waiting for these chips that when they are finally released there will be a rush to buy them and all the major distributors will run out of stock and I'll be stuck in a month or longer backlog.

SO LETS TRY THIS QUESTION. Do you think my concern is warranted? In your OPINION


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


A. I could never comment on that.

B. ESPECIALLY during quiet period.


JF, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120 (notice the lack of ES in CPU-Z) and benchmarked it in Linpack at 4.5 GHz. However, these results almost look too bad to be real. I know you can't comment on them but I thought I'd post them here so you can at least see what's out there.


----------



## Fr0sty

is that program multi threaded at all ???

is it just me or is tmonitor reporting 4.3ghz .. yet he has a cpuz screen of 4.5ghz

weird leak indeed


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


is that program multi threaded at all ???

is it just me or is tmonitor reporting 4.3ghz .. yet he has a cpuz screen of 4.5ghz

weird leak indeed


Yes a guy in a country with a market share smaller then Kentucky, got his hands on a first batch of shipped CPU's. I'd bet Microcenter customer base buys more PC's then the Ukraine does.

Now, if Microcenter doesn't have them, how did he get one ?

I know my local microcenter ain't got one.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


JF, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120 (notice the lack of ES in CPU-Z) and benchmarked it in Linpack at 4.5 GHz. However, these results almost look too bad to be real. I know you can't comment on them but I thought I'd post them here so you can at least see what's out there.











Yeah right, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120.

How did he do that? I mean did he broke into AMD's HQ or factory and stole it? If he was working for AMD wouldn't he be searched when leaving the HQ or a factory? This is bull**** in my opinion.


----------



## Fr0sty

obr friend maybe???


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Yeah right, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120.

How did he do that? I mean did he broke into AMD's HQ or factory and stole it? If he was working for AMD wouldn't he be searched when leaving the HQ or a factory? This is bull**** in my opinion.


The 8120's have actually been in stock in the Ukraine since the 5th:

http://fixer.com.ua/PC-Components/Pr...Bulldozer.html


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


The 8120's have actually been in stock in the Ukraine since the 5th:

http://fixer.com.ua/PC-Components/Pr...Bulldozer.html


sure they have.

http://ukrainianguide.com/ukraines-p...5-795-million/

California has the 7th largest economy in the world, of which most of them can afford a new PC.

I'd find it more believable if someone from California had a BD vrs some schmuck from a destitute country like the Ukraine.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


sure they have.

http://ukrainianguide.com/ukraines-p...5-795-million/

California has the 7th largest economy in the world, of which most of them can afford a new PC.

I'd find it more believable if someone from California had a BD vrs some schmuck from a destitute country like the Ukraine.


And if it turns out to be true?

Quote:



Not many days left for the launch of AMDâ€™s most anticipated Bulldozer based FX series processors. Reports and rumors about it are taking more pace, today reports unveiled a Ukrainian store named Fixer listing the AMD FX 8120 eight-core processor PIB (FD8120FRGUBOX).

Its listed for 1791 UAH, thatâ€™s US $223.5. Sources suggest that the FX 8120 reached Fixerâ€™s warehouse on 5th October and are listed ever since. Listed FX 8120 is the 95 W variant with base clock of 3.1 GHz.


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


The 8120's have actually been in stock in the Ukraine since the 5th:

http://fixer.com.ua/PC-Components/Pr...Bulldozer.html


Ya...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


Id suggest we keep the adjectives to a minimum unless we want to get this thread locked again.


adjective selection was careful. It illustrates a point however.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


And if it turns out to be true?


well since we know its not just from basic economic data like:

Population below poverty line:35% (2009)

Unemployment rate: 8.8% (2009 est.)
note: officially registered; large number of unregistered or underemployed workers

GDP - per capita (PPP): $6,700 (2010 est.)

The poverty threshold, or poverty line, is the minimum level of income deemed necessary to achieve an adequate standard of living in a given country.

The common international poverty line has in the past been roughly $1 a day. In 2008, the World Bank came out with a revised figure of $1.25 at 2005 purchasing-power parity

1/3 of their entire country makes less than 1.25 a day.. but god they're throwing out Bulldozer chips like its going out of style... Give me a frigging break.

So lets get back to reality.... That Benchmark is as fake as Pamela Anderson's breasts.


----------



## black96ws6

If this benchmark is legitimate, even at 4Ghz an FX-8120 can't beat a 2600k running at stock @ 3.4Ghz


----------



## Fr0sty

stop posting these fake benchmarks days before the nda ends ... come on guys we can do this last stretch cleanly


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


JF, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120 (notice the lack of ES in CPU-Z) and benchmarked it in Linpack at 4.5 GHz. However, these results almost look too bad to be real. I know you can't comment on them but I thought I'd post them here so you can at least see what's out there.











Only 40 Gflops? My 1090T gets 60 Gflops at stock.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*


I was all kinds of ready to get the BD chip as soon as it is released, I'm even going to go pick up my new mobo from microcenter today. Then last night a good friend of mine pointed somthing out, I'm holding off on getting my BD chip for a bit in hope's of a second revision. Kinda like with PII the c3 chip is the one to get. Any one else on this same though path?


I'm thinking about doing the same,but there has been a rumor of AMD planning a new CPU codenamed "Piledriver" instead of making a new revision of Bulldozer.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


And you should consider offering your unsolicited advice to someone who actually cares to receive it.

Aren't you the one who constantly posts fake benches?

You've just ridiculed yourself severely.


QFT.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*











If this benchmark is legitimate, even at 4Ghz an FX-8120 can't beat a 2600k running at stock @ 3.4Ghz










Cinebench can be easily faked.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


amd's heatsink never really changed over time

why change a good design afterall ?


Yeah I agree,much better than those crappy pushpins.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


Id suggest we keep the adjectives to a minimum unless we want to get this thread locked again.


Maybe it's because I'm just a music guy, but I don't see any adjectives in that sentence. Only nouns. If he had added the words "hairy" or "big", those would be adjectives.

Grammar lesson over.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Maybe it's because I'm just a music guy, but I don't see any adjectives in that sentence. Only nouns. If he had added the words "hairy" or "big", those would be adjectives.

Grammar lesson over.


Only smart thing I've read since thread re-opening.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


stop posting these fake benchmarks days before the nda ends ... come on guys we can do this last stretch cleanly


Yeah they're all fake. Oh look guys he created a fake Amd Tin with a fake amd processor in it.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I sense another thread lock coming here.


----------



## whemian

Bulldozer is becoming an EPIC FAIL.
Not hard to understand why JF AMD doesnt comment anymore
around here..


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whemian*


Bulldozer is becoming an EPIC FAIL.
Not hard to understand why JF AMD doesnt comment anymore
around here..


he just commented 2 hours ago,so you dont make much sense


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


I sense another thread lock coming here.










Yeah,me too. It's really sad because the thread just got reopened.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Yeah they're all fake. Oh look guys he created a fake Amd Tin with a fake amd processor in it.

http://forum.overclockers.ua/downloa...5e6cc793c1d591


You didn't prove anything but show us a tin that was even displayed some time ago. Where's the benchmarks you're saying "aren't fake"? Where the processor inside the tin?


----------



## whitekidney

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1666069&type=1

pretty much confirms that BD is coming soon


----------



## kahboom

will they still have a p for these new chips or are they all unlocked now and dropped the p at the end


----------



## Draven

Ineresting maby??? from their facebook page.

AMD
Twitch TV is livestreaming AMD now from Atlantic City at #IPL3. On the stream today, you'll see our Street Fighter 4 tournament and see an exclusive demonstration - BattleField 3 and Starcraft 2 on an unlocked and overclocked AMD FX Processors. Check out these awesome demonstrations now - 7GHz Gaming and lots of fun! http://bit.ly/qyMAiU


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Draven73*


Ineresting maby??? from their facebook page.

AMD
Twitch TV is livestreaming AMD now from Atlantic City at #IPL3. On the stream today, you'll see our Street Fighter 4 tournament and see an exclusive demonstration - BattleField 3 and Starcraft 2 on an unlocked and overclocked AMD FX Processors. Check out these awesome demonstrations now - 7GHz Gaming and lots of fun! http://bit.ly/qyMAiU


nice find


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Draven73*


Ineresting maby??? from their facebook page.

AMD
Twitch TV is livestreaming AMD now from Atlantic City at #IPL3. On the stream today, you'll see our Street Fighter 4 tournament and see an exclusive demonstration - BattleField 3 and Starcraft 2 on an unlocked and overclocked AMD FX Processors. Check out these awesome demonstrations now - 7GHz Gaming and lots of fun! http://bit.ly/qyMAiU


you've been repped nice find


----------



## Draven

Thanks










I wonder if they are also using one of their 7xxx series video cards?


----------



## Draven

OMG!!! look at the cooler they are using lmao the smoke coming off the nitro lol


----------



## radaja

i like this in the comments at the benching event

Quote:



AMD-Official price: All AMD FX chips are less than $250 USD.


----------



## Draven

yea I saw that lol


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


i like this in the comments at the benching event











The downside of being under $250 USD,it probably won't compete with a 2600K SB CPU.


----------



## Draven

The AMD guy just said over 5 gigs on water lol and over 4 gigs on air


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


The downside of being under $250 USD,it probably won't compete with a 2600K SB CPU.


maybe,but it will be fun to play with thats for sure,and OCed it will be more than enough for almost anyones needs


----------



## Draven

AMD guy just said release date is next week YESSSSSS!!!!


----------



## Naturecannon

WOW, you guys are still here!! Reminds me of the days when a friend of mine would wait around in the late hours of a party.........hoping for the drunk fat chick to appear. His chances were better than yours by the way


----------



## Roedi

-nvm-


----------



## kahboom

I/O and socket interface

Hyper Transport Technology rev. 3.1 (3.20 GHz, 6.4 GT/s, 25.6 GB/s, 16-bit uplink/16-bit downlink) [first implemented into HY-D1 revision "Magny-Cours" on the socket G34 Opteron platform in March 2010 and "Lisbon" on the socket C32 Opteron platform in June 2010]

Listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_%28processor%29
but on Asus website for the crosshair v says it only supports 5.2gt for the processor why? Do you think this will be addressed in a bios update ?


----------



## radaja

AMD just confirmed at the live event, it launches next week










and just for those who still wont believe launch is next week


----------



## Canis-X

Looks as though chew* is having a good time over there....LOL


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


JF, someone in Ukraine apparently got his hands on a retail FX-8120 (notice the lack of ES in CPU-Z) and benchmarked it in Linpack at 4.5 GHz. However, these results almost look too bad to be real. I know you can't comment on them but I thought I'd post them here so you can at least see what's out there.











Interestingly it looks as if the cores were actually running at 1400Mhz (or whatever CnQ frequency) the whole test according to Tmonitor. BIOS bug?


----------



## Darkpriest667

so do you think anyone from this even will be doing benchmarks? I mean since theyll actually be legitimate? 

its gotta be an error cpu z is reading it at 4500


----------



## whitekidney

Yep it's confirmed, another pic.


----------



## kzone75

Not sure if already posted.. http://www.gigabyte.com/support-down....aspx?pid=3894


----------



## Canis-X

Multi-tasking at it's finest!! LOL


----------



## Chuckclc

It seems just the L2 and L3 cache alone would make the new FX chips much better then the Phenom II's, So i cannot take any of these ridiculous benches we have seen in the past even halfway serious.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


It seems just the L2 and L3 cache alone would make the new FX chips much better then the Phenom II's, So i cannot take any of these ridiculous benches we have seen in the past even halfway serious.



but they're REAL they're LEGITIMATE... You can trust someone from a country who's average per capita income is 6300 dollars and has 35% of its population below the INTERNATIONAL poverty line of 1.25 a day!! THEY HAVE LOADS OF BULLDOZER PROCESSORS!

and OBR is totally legitimate... Gosh you guys are way to rough on him he's completely trustworthy ;-)


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


but they're REAL they're LEGITIMATE... You can trust someone from a country who's average per capita income is 6300 dollars and has 35% of its population below the INTERNATIONAL poverty line of 1.25 a day!! THEY HAVE LOADS OF BULLDOZER PROCESSORS!

and OBR is totally legitimate... Gosh you guys are way to rough on him he's completely trustworthy ;-)











I'm going to lol so had if all of these leaked benchmarks turn out to be accurate.

And yes, to be fair I give you permission to lol at me if we find out next week that these are fake.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


I'm going to lol so had if all of these leaked benchmarks turn out to be accurate.

And yes, to be fair I give you permission to lol at me if we find out next week that these are fake.


Fair enough they're leaking benchmarks that say its less powerful than a phenom 2 x6 you cant possibly believe that.

Also I never knew I needed your permission or you needed mine to laugh at each other.


----------



## Morbid_666

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Yes a guy in a country with a market share smaller then Kentucky, got his hands on a first batch of shipped CPU's. I'd bet Microcenter customer base buys more PC's then the Ukraine does.

Now, if Microcenter doesn't have them, how did he get one ?

I know my local microcenter ain't got one.


fyi ukraine got vast amounts of pc enthusiasts & they mostly buy amd for its performance/value properties. just research how many top class programmers they have. one of the best hackers are from there also.


----------



## Canis-X

live feed is over, they are now playing stuff from yesterday when the internet was down.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


I'm going to lol so had if all of these leaked benchmarks turn out to be accurate.

And yes, to be fair I give you permission to lol at me if we find out next week that these are fake.


You have that right. If AMD truly releases a CPU that is not nearly as powerful as their previous technology then you can laugh all you want. And the company will fail to exist within months, at least the CPU division. I highly doubt they would self destruct.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Morbid_666*


fyi ukraine got vast amounts of pc enthusiasts & they mostly buy amd for its performance/value properties. just research how many top class programmers they have. one of the best hackers are from there also.



yes and AMD would put their nose up at their American and Western European customers who vastly outnumber the Ukraine and have much more capital resources than Ukraine so that some fellow in Ukraine could get a bulldozer.

Let me let you in on a secret. I spent more on computers and components this year on new egg than the average ukranian makes in a year. And there are a LOT of people like me just in my state. I fail to remember seeing dozens of ukranians posting on this board any relevant information or leaks.

HOWEVER I have seen at least a dozen Texans alone commenting here. Methinks the Ukraine did NOT get an 8150 8120 or any other bulldozer before the U.S. Germany U.K. or France. All of which have vastly superior economies and much larger marketshares in the ENTHUSIAST realm.

Sell crazy somewhere else we're all stocked up here


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

LOL to Radaja in the live stream chat


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


I'm going to lol so had if all of these leaked benchmarks turn out to be accurate.

And yes, to be fair I give you permission to lol at me if we find out next week that these are fake.


just look at how many gflops it did make in that linpack benchmark and explain to us how it could even be remotely possible that this chip running at this speed could come up short like that ...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


LOL to Radaja in the live stream chat










he's desperate for a bd allright

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Morbid_666*


fyi ukraine got vast amounts of pc enthusiasts & they mostly buy amd for its performance/value properties. just research how many top class programmers they have. one of the best hackers are from there also.


the second you mentioned hackers you lost credibility at trying to give ukraine a good rep ...

its like saying holland is good for the legality of weed

it aint smart to say even if its true


----------



## Canis-X

^ LOL...I peed blood for you.... LOL


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


You have that right. *If AMD truly releases a CPU that is not nearly as powerful as their previous technology then you can laugh all you want. And the company will fail to exist within months, at least the CPU division.* I highly doubt they would self destruct.


Hey, Intel has done that before and they're still around







If BD turns out to be faildozer, it certainly won't be the first time a company has made a new product that performs worse than existing products.

From Anandtech's Pentium 4 Review:

Quote:



For today's buyer, the Pentium 4 simply doesn't make sense. *It's slower than the competition in just about every area*, it's more expensive, it's using an interface that won't be the flagship interface in 6 - 9 months and it requires a considerable investment outside of the price of the CPU itself. Remember that you have to buy a new motherboard, new memory (if you don't get it bundled with a boxed CPU), and a new power supply/case. *This is the investment that must be made in order to have a CPU that can't outperform any of today's top performers*.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


LOL to Radaja in the live stream chat











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


^ LOL...I peed blood for you.... LOL


they have to send me one,they just have









oh and its true,freaking kidney stones have plagued me my whole life


----------



## Madclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


I'm going to lol so had if all of these leaked benchmarks turn out to be accurate.

And yes, to be fair I give you permission to lol at me if we find out next week that these are fake.


With all your comments, if these benchmarks are fake, you will have to leave the country!* Just kidding of course! *

You can move on to Disproving Ivy Bridge!


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Madclock*


With all your comments, if these benchmarks are fake, you will have to leave the country!* Just kidding of course! *

You can move on to Disproving Ivy Bridge!


As I said before, I'm not a fan of blind loyalty. If Bulldozer can beat what I have currently then I would gladly consider switching back to AMD for my next build/upgrade. I supported AMD for quite a few years when I had my Athlon 64 and Athlon X2 systems. When Intel took the performance crown back, I switched. If AMD can deliver performance-wise, I don't see anything stopping me from going back to AMD.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


yes and AMD would put their nose up at their American and Western European customers who vastly outnumber the Ukraine and have much more capital resources than Ukraine so that some fellow in Ukraine could get a bulldozer.

Let me let you in on a secret. I spent more on computers and components this year on new egg than the average ukranian makes in a year. And there are a LOT of people like me just in my state. I fail to remember seeing dozens of ukranians posting on this board any relevant information or leaks.

HOWEVER I have seen at least a dozen Texans alone commenting here. Methinks the Ukraine did NOT get an 8150 8120 or any other bulldozer before the U.S. Germany U.K. or France. All of which have vastly superior economies and much larger marketshares in the ENTHUSIAST realm.

Sell crazy somewhere else we're all stocked up here


It doesn't matter if Ukrainians make less money than US citizens. Fact of the matter is that there are people that will buy these products outside of the US, France or Germany and I'm sure AMD will also ship them outside of the US in time for launch.

If the chips are going to be available next week, there's no way that they wouldn't have shipped yet. This ukranian guy just probably works in a local store and "grabbed" a chip or something.


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


they have to send me one,they just have









oh and its true,freaking kidney stones have plagued me my whole life










sorry to make lite of your condition....I truly thought that you were kidding!









Best of luck with the 8150 though


----------



## Madclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


As I said before, I'm not a fan of blind loyalty. If Bulldozer can beat what I have currently then I would gladly consider switching back to AMD for my next build/upgrade. I supported AMD for quite a few years when I had my Athlon 64 and Athlon X2 systems. When Intel took the performance crown back, I switched. If AMD can deliver performance-wise, I don't see anything stopping me from going back to AMD.


Why not build one of both? Bulldozer and Sandy! It definitely appears that you have an enthusiasts passion!


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Madclock*


Why not build one of both? Bulldozer and Sandy! It definitely appears that you have an enthusiasts passion!


No point wasting money on BD if it doesn't deliver the performance I want! But if it does, I'll definitely consider it for my next upgrade. I'm not beyond switching motherboards either. Heck, I switched from my Gigabyte board to a Maximus IV GENE just so that I could push my overclock higher


----------



## etlecho

Found another 8150 benchmark that seemed to have slipped through and got published. Don know if it is correct, but if it is...I'm disappointed. Here.

I will probably still buy though, but I might buy a 4 or 6 core and try and unlock it instead. Or wait for 8170 or piledriver.

EDIT: They switched the graphs! When I copied the link the all the graphs showed really bad performance, especially cinebench. But now they are better than 1,5h ago. These graphs aren't that bad, except for cinebench 10 single.


----------



## davieg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15226182*
> Found another 8150 benchmark that seemed to have slipped through and got published. Don know if it is correct, but if it is...I'm disappointed. Here.
> 
> I will probably still buy though, but I might buy a 4 or 6 core and try and unlock it instead. Or wait for 8170 or piledriver.


That just seems like they used the exact same results of the leaked Dutch review the other day?
Just a review based on another sites results with pictures that have been gathered from here and there.


----------



## djxput

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15226182*
> Found another 8150 benchmark that seemed to have slipped through and got published. Don know if it is correct, but if it is...I'm disappointed. Here.
> 
> I will probably still buy though, but I might buy a 4 or 6 core and try and unlock it instead. Or wait for 8170 or piledriver.


Im too lazy to check but those gaming benches look quite similar to that dutch website (meaning, maybe they are just listing the same scores etc ...)
dirt 3, mafia and farcry if I remember were the exact same benches the dutch site used (if I can remember right) ...


----------



## Oese

i'd say too it's a repost (blog-style, and they put also i965 vs bulli in game benches...)

pictures also same..


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oese;15226256*
> i'd say too it's a repost (blog-style, and they put also i965 vs bulli in game benches...)
> 
> pictures also same..


If they did, then they copied the graphs and switched them, because when I saved the link the scores were horrible to say the least - only one graph were better than the 2500.

I'm getting serious weird vibes from this...


----------



## kchris

Well who really thought it would be as good as Sandy Bridge? Sandy Bridge is the greatest CPU architecture created to date. That's not going to change until Ivy Bridge.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15226345*
> Well who really thought it would be as good as Sandy Bridge? Sandy Bridge is the greatest CPU architecture created to date. That's not going to change until Ivy Bridge.


While I agree with you, its possible AMD has some tricks hidden up their sleeves. We'll know fairly soon...


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15226182*
> EDIT: They switched the graphs! When I copied the link the all the graphs showed really bad performance, especially cinebench. But now they are better than 1,5h ago. These graphs aren't that bad, except for cinebench 10 single.


Dishonest benchmarking!? Ohhh, that hints at completely fake numbers.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15226026*
> sorry to make lite of your condition....I truly thought that you were kidding!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck with the 8150 though


no worries,im a tuff nut to take down.
i posted it because i thought,what the hell im going through it and maybe hjust maybe i can get a FX=8150 out of it


----------



## Oese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15226401*
> Dishonest benchmarking!? Ohhh, that hints at completely fake numbers.


tfff indeed


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15225801*
> You have that right. If AMD truly releases a CPU that is not nearly as powerful as their previous technology then you can laugh all you want. And the company will fail to exist within months, at least the CPU division. I highly doubt they would self destruct.


AMD is 5 billion,yes billion dollars in debt,if they slip up on BD then say bye to AMD's CPU division and hello to <$500 processors from Intel


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15226401*
> Dishonest benchmarking!? Ohhh, that hints at completely fake numbers.


That's what I was thinking as well. I'm not sure if it is disinformation or just that they did it wrong to begin with.


----------



## kchris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15226467*
> AMD is 5 billion,yes billion dollars in debt,if they slip up on BD then say bye to AMD's CPU division and hello to <$500 processors from Intel


So I guess nows the time to stock up on Intel's CPUs before they get bumped up to outrageous prices after BD slips up?


----------



## flashtest

Got the perfect idea for profit:
Retail the 8150 as 4-core with a mini-clone of Macci, and a limited supply of Liquid Nitrogen, and make profit on reselling more LN2.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15226563*
> Got the perfect idea for profit:
> Retail the 8150 as 4-core with a mini-clone of Macci, and a limited supply of Liquid Nitrogen, and make profit on reselling more LN2.


Why not a vapor chamber like GPU's use?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15226467*
> AMD is 5 billion,yes billion dollars in debt,if they slip up on BD then say bye to AMD's CPU division and hello to <$500 processors from Intel


2.2 Billion dollars( http://ycharts.com/companies/AMD/long_term_debt )

with that being paid off by 2012

it isn't really a big problem anymore


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15226755*
> 2.1 Billion dollars
> 
> with that being paid off by 2012
> 
> it isn't really a big problem anymore


agreed,AMD will be just fine(even if BD turns out to have less performance than previous gen)
BD gives AMD something intel doesnt have at this point,affordable 8 core cpu's that should OC quite nicely and will sell like hotcakes


----------



## Oese

agree, even if it is kinda flawed now, it is a great Arch to build upon..


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whemian;15224698*
> Bulldozer is becoming an EPIC FAIL.
> Not hard to understand why JF AMD doesnt comment anymore
> around here..


Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?

Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
Filled the trunk with beer
Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)

Sorry, been a bit busy today.


----------



## whitekidney

Hey JF, just say it so I can sleep tonight.

I wanna hear this from you *rubs it in*.
BD is coming next week, aye?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15226467*
> AMD is 5 billion,yes billion dollars in debt,if they slip up on BD then say bye to AMD's CPU division and hello to <$500 processors from Intel


Amd hasn't been competitive with intel in years yet

750 - 219
2500k - 219
920 - 289

What's this speculation that prices would go up with Amds bulldozer failure?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> Filled the trunk with beer
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


Tell your wife happy Birthday from me.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> Filled the trunk with beer
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


^ LOL

I guess there is no conspiracy then?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15225462*
> Interestingly it looks as if the cores were actually running at 1400Mhz (or whatever CnQ frequency) the whole test according to Tmonitor. BIOS bug?


Nah Tmonitor just updated stupid fast, at least for me... It's pointless to use because by the time it's on the screen, it's off the screen.


----------



## Amor

John, what frame did you sell? Not that I'm really actively looking for a bike frame (I already have a Brodie XC bike) but I think it'd be a neat little side project to build up a "project bike"....

PS: If you're doing renos to your kitchen. I'd suggest maybe putting some LED "strip lighting" on your cabinet baseboards (if it works for your kitchen style) while you're doing the renos. I think they're awesome.


----------



## flashtest

Could someone more informed enlighten me what socket the Piledriver will use (if it was published as information ofc)


----------



## Schmuckley

lol @ baseboard strip lighting..yeah..like green led's on a 94 white camaro lolz


----------



## ahriman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15227029*
> Tell your wife happy Birthday from me.


You know his _wife_?


----------



## Benz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15227118*
> Could someone more informed enlighten me what socket the Piledriver will use (if it was published as information ofc)


I think it'll use FM2, but I think no one knows for sure.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;15227128*
> You know his _wife_?


Not personally, but I would wish you a happy Birthday as well, if it was your Birthday.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> Filled the trunk with beer
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


Happy B-day to your wife John


----------



## Schmuckley

will it be this week? or what?







..btw..congrats to jon fer getting the leaves up before wet...and having a trunkful of beer..lol


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15227118*
> Could someone more informed enlighten me what socket the Piledriver will use (if it was published as information ofc)


FM1+ and AM3+

Trinity and Vishera


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15226467*
> AMD is 5 billion,yes billion dollars in debt,if they slip up on BD then say bye to AMD's CPU division and hello to <$500 processors from Intel


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices

Where did you get your info from?


----------



## Benz

Bulldozer is coming out next week, some AMD guy just said it here.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;15227871*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices
> 
> Where did you get your info from?


Please see "*V* US$ 4.964 billion (2010)" in that link.


----------



## Bloodcore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15227997*
> Please see "*V* US$ 4.964 billion (2010)" in that link.


I'm quite sure that means they have LESS than the year before.. not DEBT.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> *Filled the trunk with beer*
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


That was the most important thing you did all day.


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15228164*
> That was the most important thing you did all day.


Yeah, good luck with that attitude


----------



## kahboom

bulldozer 2nd gen (piledriver) is set to be in the am3+ socket and was reduced from 10 cores to 8 cores but with intergrated graphics like sb and said to be 10 percent more efficiant per core than bulldozer.


----------



## kahboom

3rd gen is going to be on the fm2 socket


----------



## kahboom

http://www.techpowerup.com/152653/Vishera-and-Trinity-to-Take-Over-AMD-Processor-Lineup-in-3Q-2012.html?cp=2


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15228281*
> http://www.techpowerup.com/152653/Vishera-and-Trinity-to-Take-Over-AMD-Processor-Lineup-in-3Q-2012.html?cp=2


More leaks from DH, really ?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5;15228230*
> Yeah, good luck with that attitude


Sarcasm/Humor, try it sometime.


----------



## kahboom

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/44317-amd-piledriver-10-faster-than-bulldozer.html


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15228428*
> http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/44317-amd-piledriver-10-faster-than-bulldozer.html


Only 10% faster than Bulldozer?


----------



## kahboom

if its 10% faster and use's less power its still a win in my book, still excited for the BD as it is


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15228464*
> Only 10% faster than Bulldozer?


It's higher clocked to boot 4.5GHz on the 8-core and only 95 Watts.....
(I am lying here)


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> *Filled the trunk with beer*
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


The real question is........was that beer in bottles or is beer sloshing around in your trunk as you drive. If the latter, I hope you bought lots of straws too. Now THERE'S a party.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15228476*
> if its 10% faster and use's less power its still a win in my book, still excited for the BD as it is


10% faster with a lower TDP would be nice I suppose. BD seems to need a BIOS update or else it performs really crappy.


----------



## vikingsteve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15228245*
> bulldozer 2nd gen (piledriver) is set to be in the am3+ socket and was reduced from *10 cores* to 8 cores but with intergrated graphics like sb and said to be 10 percent more efficiant per core than bulldozer.


Core madness? Of course, why stop at 8?


----------



## kahboom

on another post there is an unofficial update for the crosshair v bios released yesterday, alot of mobo companies are more than likely working the bugs out now collecting as much data as they can to address issues before they release updates for the bios, could address issues (fingers crossed) or could do nothing will have to wait and see this week


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15228492*
> It's higher clocked to boot 4.5GHz on the 8-core and only 95 Watts.....
> (I am lying here)


Interesting speculation though,a 4.5Ghz stock 8 core with a 95W. TDP on the flagship processor,possibly 65w. for the 6 core and 45W. for the 4 core.
Isn't Piledriver supposed to have a integrated NB & chipset though? If not AMD is getting really behind.


----------



## kahboom

AMD will be playing catch up for the next couple of years if i had to guess, seems like there really trying to get make a push in the mobile and tablet markets to gain market share on intel


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15228582*
> 10% faster with a lower TDP would be nice I suppose. BD seems to need a BIOS update or else it performs really crappy.


Of course it does! How can it perform with its designed functions without proper programming. try to operate any CPU without proper bios. Take a 1366 Motherboard with original (launch) bios and observe the performance you will get when you place a 990x in it! It may operate but the performance will be very relaxed! maybe 4 cores with no hyperthreading and no overclock!


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahriman;15227128*
> You know his _wife_?


Pics?


----------



## raisethe3

Those numbers would be nice if it was true. *dreaming*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15228639*
> Interesting speculation though,a 4.5Ghz stock 8 core with a 95W. TDP on the flagship processor,possibly 65w. for the 6 core and 45W. for the 4 core.
> Isn't Piledriver supposed to have a integrated NB & chipset though? If not AMD is getting really behind.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Electroneng;15228737*
> Of course it does! How can it perform with its designed functions without proper programming. try to operate any CPU without proper bios. Take a 1366 Motherboard with original (launch) bios and observe the performance you will get when you place a 990x in it! It may operate but the performance will be very relaxed! maybe 4 cores with no hyperthreading and no overclock!


This.


----------



## PERSPOLIS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;15229552*
> Those numbers would be nice if it was true. *dreaming*


Your dream may actually come true!
There is an 8-core bd server chip @2.5 GHz with 32 Watt Average CPU Power, which probably corresponds to 35W TDP.

Link:

http://www.guru3d.com/news/amd-opteron-4200-series-arrive/


----------



## Seronx

Nevermind, i'll think up something else to reply with I didn't read

Post #7723 wow
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15228634*
> on another post there is an unofficial update for the crosshair v bios released yesterday, alot of mobo companies are more than likely working the bugs out now collecting as much data as they can to address issues before they release updates for the bios, could address issues (fingers crossed) or could do nothing will have to wait and see this week


Some of them are doing it with official updates gigabyte F6E and asrock 1.3


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15226989*
> Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?
> 
> Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
> Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
> Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
> Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
> Filled the trunk with beer
> Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
> Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)
> 
> Sorry, been a bit busy today.


You my man deserve a lot of RESPECT,

1, you get on with your life,
2, you give your wife and family the TIME,
3, you give the members of this forum TIME, (that you don't need too)
4, you will not short your self out a JOB, (and that you have been asked here)
5, As a fellow human have shown that you are worthy of distinct respect and have earned that through the mannerisms you have shown,

Adding a Rep to you would be more of an insult than a compliment because you have shown more Honour than most people would in a life time,


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?

Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain
Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
Filled the trunk with beer
Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)

Sorry, been a bit busy today.


Oh no, that is depressing.








See, if it was champagne, then we would have all understood the reason for it.
But beer...


----------



## macca_dj

The way most of you are carrying on this thread is going to get closed again,

JF-AMD has a life out side of work as most of us do unless you are still Immature and in SCHOOL < or just immature get a grip and give the man some respect,

If you want honest answers then be mature about your questions and don't act like a disrespectful adolescent even though you know that JF is tied by a contract,

Get a grip and show it,
Other wise you will only bring doom to a site that has given you more insight.......

And seriously if it was down to me I would have closed this forum down by now F=stop


----------



## Seronx

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview
More here

I'm just going to point out he mixed up the keys on this one


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*
















































http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview
More here

I'm just going to point out he mixed up the keys on this one


So the 8150 consumes more power than the 2600K? Are clock speeds at stock?
So far it looks like it's going to be slower than the 2600K,AMD is really falling behind.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15230592*
> So the 8150 consumes more power than the 2600K? Are clock speeds at stock?
> So far it looks like it's going to be slower than the 2600K,AMD is really falling behind.


It consumes 300 Watts at [email protected] supposedly


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


It consumes 300 Watts at [email protected] supposedly


300Watts?







No wonder why the Asus CHV has 8+4 pin CPU power connectors.
Did the article mention how much the SB 2600K consumes at 5Ghz?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


300Watts?







No wonder why the Asus CHV has 8+4 pin CPU power delivery.
Did the article mention how much the SB 2600K consumes at 5Ghz?


Nope

Also the max power than can be supplied by an 8pin is 336 watts

the 4pin is 192 Watts


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


300Watts?







No wonder why the Asus CHV has 8+4 pin CPU power connectors.
Did the article mention how much the SB 2600K consumes at 5Ghz?


The article doesn't mention it, but a 2600K @ 5 GHz can consumes around 150W (but it varies depending on the VCore needed by a particular 2600K). Total system power consumption for a 2600K system at full CPU load (no GPU load) is around 250W @ 5 GHz.


----------



## radaja

thanks seronx,i went ahead and grabbed them all for easy consumption
this is what the reviewer said at XS's
Quote:


> Latest BIOS, latest drivers. Unfortunately this is how it performs...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


thanks seronx,i went ahead and grabbed them all for easy consumption









/snip/


I like how this guy uses Excel

Anyone want to boycott?


----------



## kahboom

i wonder which bios that ch-5 he tested was running? The stock nb is set way too low for running 1866mhz ram isn't it.


----------



## Fr0sty

why you so slow bulldozer


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


why you so slow bulldozer










I know

















































. I kinda feel like an idiot selling my z68 and i5 2500k now


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


i wonder which bios that ch-5 he tested was running? The stock nb is set way too low for running 1866mhz ram isn't it.


this is what he said

Quote:



Latest BIOS, latest drivers.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


I know

















































. I kinda feel like an idiot selling my z68 and i5 2500k now


Why did you sell a perfectly good SB system?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Why did you sell a perfectly good SB system?


So he can buy Sandy Bridge-E!


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15230785*
> Why did you sell a perfectly good SB system?


I was putting my eggs all in one basket with this whole bulldozer thing. O well I can always sell this CH V sometime. If anyone will buy it that is after BD release.

Does this mean NDA ends tomorrow? The article was dated 10/9. That was also a pretty in-depth "preview"


----------



## Brutuz

Looks about as fast as I expected it to be, bit slower but eh.

Now to see how far it OCs vs a 2600k, if it gets a higher enough average OC then it'll win.


----------



## Fr0sty

dunno when the nda ends .. but seeing previews pop up like that sounds like the start of the end of the start


----------



## SCollins

http://www.aida64.com/

New version out, I wonder if to correct for bad memory benchmark performance ?

Either way,

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview

This still looks wrong, I fully expect superPi to be a Intel dominate benchmark, they support x87 better then AMD, in fact bulldozer doesn't even have x87 legacy AFAIK. Maybe JF can comment. Some of the benchmark results seem a bit happy, seem are a bit under. I wonder if maybe there still some naggy bios issue, because the memory benchmark should drastically effect superpi.


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


why you so slow bulldozer










The just need to adjust the pricing, drop it another $30-40, and they have a winner.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


http://www.aida64.com/

New version out, I wonder if to correct for bad memory benchmark performance ?

Either way,

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview

This still looks wrong, I fully expect superPi to be a Intel dominate benchmark, they support x87 better then AMD, in fact bulldozer doesn't even have x87 legacy AFAIK. Maybe JF can comment. Some of the benchmark results seem a bit happy, seem are a bit under. I wonder if maybe there still some naggy bios issue, because the memory benchmark should drastically effect superpi.


Some of the graph legends are reversed (e.g. the power consumption one). That might explain some of the funky results.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


This still looks wrong, I fully expect superPi to be a Intel dominate benchmark, they support x87 better then AMD, in fact bulldozer doesn't even have x87 legacy AFAIK. Maybe JF can comment. Some of the benchmark results seem a bit happy, seem are a bit under. I wonder if maybe there still some naggy bios issue, because the memory benchmark should drastically effect superpi.


AMD FX Zambezi Bulldozer still has x87

it is Intel that doesn't have x87 it is converted to pSSE 64bit


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


AMD FX Zambezi Bulldozer still has x87

it is Intel that doesn't have x87 it is converted to pSSE 64bit


You may wanna double check that.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15230891*
> You may wanna double check that.


AMD FX does x87
Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't do x87

I quadruple checked

Intel says their CPUs haven't been able to do x87 since Pentium 4


----------



## fongg

Beginning to give up hope. Why did AMD bring back the FX name to release something like this? The FX name, overclocking record, tin box, watercooler....seems like they are trying to sell the product through marketing and not performance.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15230901*
> AMD FX does x87
> Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't do x87
> 
> I quadruple checked


Then why would superPi performance be so low ? BD has a bunch more FPU then Pheonom on paper per module. I know hardly anybody supports x-87. Still why the strange inversion in the benchmarks. That guy worked really really hard at creating a very difficult to read benchmark.Then again it could be language differences.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Then why would superPi performance be so low ? BD has a bunch more FPU then Pheonom on paper per module. I know hardly anybody supports x-87. Still why the strange inversion in the benchmarks. That guy worked really really hard at creating a very difficult to read benchmark.Then again it could be language differences.


You need to find a microsoft and a person who knows what happens in super pi to know that

Just looking at Software Optimization guides

x87 doesn't exist for Intel
x87 exists for AMD

Guess I have to wait for Vishera *sigh*

emote: hides his sign that says "Intel the end is nigh"


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15230972*
> You need to find a microsoft and a person who knows what happens in super pi to know that
> 
> Just looking at Software Optimization guides
> 
> x87 doesn't exist for Intel
> x87 exists for AMD


Then Intel should be horrific in x-87 period superpi. you'd have huge performance penalty's converting x-87 to other code like sse etc, unless you rigged the software to run with a different instruction set.


----------



## kahboom

ftp://ftp.cpuid.com/misc/CPUID_AMD_FX_Reviewer_Kit.zip

reviewer tools for fx processors download:

The kit includes :
- CPU-Z 1.58.7
- HWMonitor 1.18.5
- TMonitor 1.04
- HWiNFO32 & HWiNFO64 387.1390
- SIV 4.23 BETA-22
- AIDA64 Extreme Edition 1649


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15231003*
> Then Intel should be horrific in x-87 period superpi. you'd have huge performance penalty's converting x-87 to other code like sse etc, unless you rigged the software to run with a different instruction set.


I was wondering the web someday and the time it takes x87 to convert to SSE takes only 4-10 cycles while for AMD CPUs it takes 40-60 cycles(I don't remember the time it might be lower or higher but I remember the intel times)((x87 luckly doesn't exist in a 64bit environment only in protected 32bit and virtual real 32bit)


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15230927*
> Then why would superPi performance be so low ? BD has a bunch more FPU then Pheonom on paper per module. I know hardly anybody supports x-87. Still why the strange inversion in the benchmarks. That guy worked really really hard at creating a very difficult to read benchmark.Then again it could be language differences.


SSE is a lot faster than x87, hence why Intel owns in x87 stuff now.

They just convert the x87 instructions to SSE in hardware, I think. (Just like how most CPUs convert x86 to custom RISC architectures these days)


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I was wondering the web someday and the time it takes x87 to convert to SSE takes only 4-10 cycles while for AMD CPUs it takes 40-60 cycles maybe longer


ehhh, is that by measurement or design ? Because lots of things can influence measurement.

Also AIDA64 used in the Romanian review site was 1.80 and version 1.85 is current. I don't see a way to confirm build numbers to verify which is which.

I also don't see pclab501 on the list of reviewers, so what exactly does this person have ?

I believe the reviewer kits is using this version released in August.

http://www.aida64.com/news/finalwire...ut-aida64-v185

BTW thats alot of cycles, when you thinking in cycles alot, which I do.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


SSE is a lot faster than x87, hence why Intel owns in x87 stuff now.

They just convert the x87 instructions to SSE in hardware, I think. (Just like how most CPUs convert x86 to custom RISC architectures these days)


I don't know that AMD has bothered to support that feature, time to head back to the AMD docs to have a look see.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


ehhh, is that by measurement or design ? Becuase lots of things can influence measurement.

Also AIDA64 used in the romanian review site was 1.80 and version 1.85 is current. I don't see a way to confirm build numbers to verify which is which.

I also don't see pclab501 on the list of reviewers, so what exactly does this person have ?


wheres this list of reviewers at? i would like to see who is getting to do a BD review


----------



## kahboom

S940
2011-10-08, 13:08:55
In any case, I would not say. 0811 Bios AGESA 1100, 0813 review bios is the same. The source says the new AGESA. Theoretically, The Source My 1100th The question is just how it is meant. The Bios situation may look quite different with MSI boards. Biose of which are not yet AGESA stand 0092? PCGH it would have to know more. Not to be AMD quickly send the editors have a new BIOS to start on time with the test.
HMm fancy talking to me one of the hÃ¤ttten bioses, was just as old as 0811 (which may not have been meant AGESA version), the Type then said that the 09xx and 99xxx there or so would, in any case more 2.
Obs is correct .. no idea.

After AGESA took the leap to 1100, I'm assuming that that is the final AGESA / was. With NEM BIOS should then change Not much. Quite possible that he just babbles about. He can even send ne PM and ask if he can send the bios ^ ^

Ah, here's it:

Quote Originally Posted by Leeghoofd View Post
Asus Crosshair Formula V tested 0083 0813 9905 bios and now (one gives best performance and opens ram dividers to last 2400)

And turbo does not seem to work with 9905

Overal 9905 is faster in almost every app, New ram dividers work top notch, love that 2400MHz

NEM "wonder it sounds but does not" ...

translated with google from this link http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...3646-p-24.html

seems with the bios update 9905 which is the latest from asus seen in the cpu-z works the best but turbo is disabled for fx processors.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


wheres this list of reviewers at? i would like to see who is getting to do a BD review


best I can tell, it looks like these folks looking at whats in the reviewer kit.

Not that this is any confirmation, but my suspicion would be that the people in this HTML document, have chips. Secondly, why would they throw a chip at a Romanian website ? Wouldn't they just go to Anand, TPU, etc ? Some rinky site in Romania ? seems odd to me.

http://www.filedump.net/dumped/aida64web1318135869.zip


----------



## kahboom

Either AMD or Asus are holding back to wait to the release date itself to let the belt loose or just killing time to get the bugs out with the new architecture


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


Either AMD or Asus are holding back to wait to the release date itself to let the belt loose or just killing time to get the bugs out with the new architecture


Or, they are baiting leakers and shills. Sometimes, you pull your enemy in and let them hang themselves. Have some rope.


----------



## kahboom

the only thing i believe about these review would be the power draw of the processor, until release date, or a review from sites like overclock3d.net is something similar


----------



## kahboom

No need for me to hope cuz im buying them regardless


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15231207*
> No need for me to hope cuz im buying them regardless


I'm just here for sport.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15230784*
> this is what he said


Are those really the latest drivers?
Perhaps there will be another set of drivers after the NDA is lifted?


----------



## kahboom

beta bios driver from asus not including the newer agesida code in the bios code and turbo doesnt work with these bios either


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


best I can tell, it looks like these folks looking at whats in the reviewer kit.

Not that this is any confirmation, but my suspicion would be that the people in this HTML document, have chips. Secondly, why would they throw a chip at a Romanian website ? Wouldn't they just go to Anand, TPU, etc ? Some rinky site in Romania ? seems odd to me.

http://www.filedump.net/dumped/aida64web1318135869.zip


well lab501 is a well known site and i dont see why they wouldnt get a chip as well as anand,tpu, ect.i just dont know why they released a preview yet.maybe time zone and pushing the nda envelope edge?maybe nda ends the 9th?the article is dated the 9th so who knows but you cant look at things like why would romania or some other small country get one? some of the best tech sites are based in little countries


----------



## kahboom

but from most of the review web sites there running at 1600mhz and 1866mhz but from what others are saying the fx like higher memory clocks 2133mhz or higher to get good results, unlike phenom which benifits only a little but tighter timmings are better on phenoms.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


well lab501 is a well known site and i dont see why they wouldnt get a chip as well as anand,tpu, ect.i just dont know why they released a preview yet.maybe time zone and pushing the nda envelope edge?maybe nda ends the 9th?the article is dated the 9th so who knows but you cant look at things like why would romania or some other small country get one? some of the best tech sites are based in little countries


It has a economy smaller then most of the individual states in the USA, not make sense does this. These would not be the people I would have pushing my product. They just won't buy enough to matter. I have to wonder Why they got a chip and why they broke NDA, I don't expect BD to set the world on fire, but given why I have learned about its design, it should hang with 2500/2600 most of the time and best them both in heavily threaded apps.

Something doesn't add up. Then again, it could be a dud.

I am waiting on Phoronix, who claims to have seen BD and Trinity performance and they were hinting that it looked really good !


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


AMD FX does x87
Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't do x87

I quadruple checked

Intel says their CPUs haven't been able to do x87 since Pentium 4


Before it was said that Intel has X87 and AMD does not? If AMD does x87 and Intel doesn't, why does Intel score so much better at SuperPi?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Before it was said that Intel has X87 and AMD does not? If AMD does x87 and Intel doesn't, why does Intel score so much better at SuperPi?


This is due to Intel " by way of claims I cannot confirm" converts at the decoder level x87 to sse, the question then remains, why not just recompile the app and optimize for SSE ?

Seriously!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Before it was said that Intel has X87 and AMD does not? If AMD does x87 and Intel doesn't, *why does Intel score so much better at SuperPi?*



so many reasons can be thrown here ... intel compiler bias ... aggresive scheduler + support with instruction set made to translate x87 into something else .. and the list goes on ... all of those together makes intel the king of super pi


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


This is due to Intel " by way of claims I cannot confirm" converts at the decoder level x87 to sse, the question then remains, why not just recompile the app and optimize for SSE ?

Seriously!


y-cruncher exists ( http://www.numberworld.org/y-cruncher/ )

it does Pi and is faster


----------



## SSJVegeta

If Lab501 benches are true...

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


so many reasons can be thrown here ... intel compiler bias ... aggresive scheduler + support with instruction set made to translate x87 into something else .. and the list goes on ... all of those together makes intel the king of super pi


Yeah I was assuming it uses the Intel compiler code but I didn't know it used even more more,aggressive schedulers with x87 translate to SSE does indeeed make SuperPi useless unless you have a Intel CPU.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


If Lab501 benches are true...

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview





























So......umm.......why is this a problem? BD lands between a 2500k and a 2600k and is also priced between them, at $50-60 below the latter. Are you worried that you can't play your HAWX game at 269 fps...only at 179? Didn't realize the human eye could perceive the difference between those. It seems that the cinebench scores are pretty close. So those people that would actually make use of an 8 core processor, like video editors, have a great bargain coming from AMD. AMD made a competitor, not a champion, and priced it accordingly. Why are we all scoffing?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


If Lab501 benches are true...

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview





























Did you know who ever made those excel data sheets actually mixed a few of them up? The results may be completely inaccurate,I would take those with a huge gran of sea salt until NDA lifts on Oct. 12th.


----------



## SCollins

The very telling benchmark is Handbrake. If these are real.Which I can assure you handbrake is built with GCC.

If this is on a broken Bios, AMD might have a winner becuase handbrake uses lots of SEE Int etc.

Its actually a very good indicator of system performance.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Did you know who ever made those excel data sheets actually mixed a few of them up? The results may be completely inaccurate,I would take those with a huge gran of sea salt until NDA lifts on Oct. 12th.


Yeah, I noticed some of them were mixed up when I read the translation.

Yes, once again we must wait till the 12th for the definitive answer.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Did you know who ever made those excel data sheets actually mixed a few of them up? The results may be completely inaccurate,I would take those with a huge gran of sea salt *until NDA lifts on Oct. 12th.*


Sigh. Who said the NDA is lifting Oct. 12th anyway? I certainly don't recall AMD stating that.


----------



## 2010rig

Are there any benchmarks that cater AMD CPU's?

This way we can go by those.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are there any benchmarks that cater AMD CPU's?

This way we can go by those.


Passmark caters to all CPUs


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are there any benchmarks that cater AMD CPU's?

This way we can go by those.


Or....(call me crazy here)....

We could compare AMD CPU's to AMD CPU's (FX to Phenom II). That way we're comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges (comparing to Intel).

Intel is going to excel at certain things, while AMD is going to excel in others. It's ALWAYS been like that. It's kind of silly comparing the two together in all of these benchmarks. All you can really tell is what benchmarks favor what platform.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are there any benchmarks that cater AMD CPU's?

This way we can go by those.


Handbrake is CPU agnostic, built with GNU GCC and its a pretty good indicator of cpu performance.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Or....(call me crazy here)....

We could compare AMD CPU's to AMD CPU's (FX to Phenom II). That way we're comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges (comparing to Intel).

Intel is going to excel at certain things, while AMD is going to excel in others. It's ALWAYS been like that. It's kind of silly comparing the two together in all of these benchmarks. All you can really tell is what benchmarks favor what platform.


Build all benchmarks on gnu gcc, problem solved.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Or....(call me crazy here)....

We could compare AMD CPU's to AMD CPU's (FX to Phenom II). That way we're comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges (comparing to Intel).

Intel is going to excel at certain things, while AMD is going to excel in others. It's ALWAYS been like that. It's kind of silly comparing the two together in all of these benchmarks. All you can really tell is what benchmarks favor what platform.


If we are going to talk about apples and oranges and comparison

P6(Pentium III and older, Core 1 & 2, Nehalem, Sandy Bridge) and Bulldozer all have Andy Glew's name on them

While K7, K8, K10, K10.5, K12 all have Dirk Meyer's name on them


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


If Lab501 benches are true...

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview





























Has these already been confirmed as legitimate benchmarks?


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR*


Has these already been confirmed as legitimate benchmarks?


No they haven't. Everything is still pure speculation at the moment which is why I wrote _"If Lab501 benches are true..."_


----------



## dreameer111

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


I know

















































. I kinda feel like an idiot selling my z68 and i5 2500k now


I just feel like an idiot for holding out so long, when my gut was telling me to just go with SB








Dammit, I should've listened to myself....

I'll still wait until next week to see more results though.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Sigh. Who said the NDA is lifting Oct. 12th anyway? I certainly don't recall AMD stating that.










There was a live stream yesterday featuring FX processors at 6GHz running BF3,some AMD rep( not sure if he was an actual AMD employee so I dunno whether this is factual or not) said "wait until next week" and "expect for a release on October 12th".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fongg*


This "FX" doesnt seem to be performing any better than an X6..


There are several things wrong with the BIOS,so of course it isn't performing how it should be. The FX isn't even running all cores at full clock speed with the current BIOS version.


----------



## fongg

This "FX" doesnt seem to be performing any better than an X6..


----------



## Fr0sty

let's hope the new bioses bring back some performance by the truck load


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


let's hope the new bioses bring back some performance by the truck load


Relative to what, we have no idea how accurate these are.I dunno, but 2 eastern European sites leaking on the same day, seems a bit suspicious.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Relative to what, we have no idea how accurate these are.I dunno, but 2 eastern European sites leaking on the same day, seems a bit suspicious.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4968137

Someone get those silly engineers they have transistors cancelling each other out just like Fermi!!!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4968137

Someone get those silly engineers they have transistors cancelling each other out just like Fermi!!!


Let me get this straight, a boot leg copy of windows, a shaddy benchmark, no NDA "makes no sense there, why would AMD give them a chip without a NDA"

Then wierd performance metrics. I wonder if they got a back door chip that was a defect. Either way, why is the serial info blacked out on the review photo.

Theres to many holes in this cheese.

I'll wait for OCN, Anand etc to review. We should know then in reality where things really sit.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fongg*


This "FX" doesn't seem to be performing any better than an X6..


Sadly all the leaks hint to that, the '8-core' failing to the X6 , on the bright side it's having more space to clock (still different reviewers tell that it's getting quite hot at over 4.5-4.6 - explaining why on each Bulldozer official demo there is some guy pouring LN2 on it).

If we compare apples to apples - just a comparison X6 vs FX-8x on the same frequency will sadly paint a painful picture about the new design.

I don't see the point of posts discussing fake/not fake - we have nothing confirmed - nor we will have an official review - so take everything with a grain of salt - but expect leaks to get more and more creditable as launch comes nearer.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Then wierd performance metrics. I wonder if they got a back door chip that was a defect. Either way, why is the serial info blacked out on the review photo.


He might not have signed the NDA but the person who gave him the CPU could easily be tracked down if he showed such info


----------



## Buckaroo

If these performance number are true. Why does AMD have to desecrate the FX name with this pile of poop?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


If these performance number are true. Why does AMD have to desecrate the FX name with this pile of poop?


Same reason they are calling it 8-core - Marketing (FX-81xx would be a fantastic Phenom III X4)


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Same reason they are calling it 8-core - Marketing (FX-81xx would be a fantastic Phenom III X4)










They are calling a 8-core because technically it is

The thing that is dropping the scores is the lack of floating point cores

But you never count the floating point cores

Remember in AMD designs Integer Core and Floating Point Core are separate
while in Intel designs the Integer Core and Floating Point Core are fused


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


He might not have signed the NDA but the person who gave him the CPU could easily be tracked down if he showed such info


Given scarcity and location, I don't think that would be difficult.


----------



## Fr0sty

a brief idea on what amd is aiming for the next couple of years


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*











a brief idea on what amd is aiming for the next couple of years


That's for servers


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


That's for servers


You're kidding right? Did you look at that properly?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


You're kidding right? Did you look at that properly?


Magny Cours and Interlagos are Server Chips

I might be partially blind but I am not THAT BLIND

Magny Cours(2010) -> Interlagos(2011)
G34 and core count and efficiency driven
Terramar(2012) -> Dublin(2013)
G44(LGA2012) Integrated I/O and GPU tasking
Unknown(2014) -> Unknown(2015)
G54 System on Chip


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread cleaned up of off topic discussion, since some of you can't handle me having an opinion just like the rest of you.









Don't worry, I'll stay out of the discussion again from now on, and just stick to cleaning and infracting.


----------



## hazarada

according to the benches that have been dropping like flood for the last week 8 core BD will get its face beaten in even by 1100t, im having a hard time believing amd or anybody would come out with a product inferior to their previous one.. or would they?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hazarada*


according to the benches that have been dropping like flood for the last week 8 core BD will get its face beaten in even by 1100t, im having a hard time believing amd or anybody would come out with a product inferior to their previous one.. or would they?


Take this with a grain of Salt

Ford did make the Edsel, technically inferior no. Ugly though, so ugly.


----------



## flashtest

btw, http://msi-moa.com/scoreboard/ - That's who Lab501 are, so at least it looks more creditable than O../D....


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


That's for servers


even if ... server tech always makes it way into desktops ...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Magny Cours and Interlagos are Server Chips

I might be partially blind but I am not THAT BLIND

Magny Cours(2010) -> Interlagos(2011)
G34 and core count and efficiency driven
Terramar(2012) -> Dublin(2013)
G44(LGA2012) Integrated I/O and GPU tasking
Unknown(2014) -> Unknown(2015)
G54 System on Chip


where did you get that g54 system name??

i mean g44/42 is on the slide ... but g54???

and dont forget that its all up to global foundries reaction time and time to market with those process switch and all ... and amd also has to be perfect at executing them ... who knows when we will see 2nd gen bulldozer and the thing after that


----------



## Chuckclc

I think we make way too big of deal on these benchmarks and if they are fake or not. Seems to be very very soon and we will see 100% real benches, and if it disappoints then all of us BD hopefuls go to Sandy Bridge. If it is close to SB then most of us buy. If it truly does not beat the PHII X6 then AMD CPUs will be in BIG trouble and most likely would not be able to withstand the financial hit it takes from releasing a piece of crap. So you have to ask yourself, "would they really release something that cannot even beat their old CPUs and create such a hype around it?" I guess they could, but I dont see why. Also with all the hype around BD I dont find it impossible that Intel could shell out quiet a few bucks to make BD look bad with fake leaks and benches to deter some folks. Who knows. Both suggestions i made sound a little far fetched to me, but i guess both could be possible. Either way, we will know soon enough.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


I think we make way too big of deal on these benchmarks and if they are fake or not. Seems to be very very soon and we will see 100% real benches, and if it disappoints then all of us BD hopefuls go to Sandy Bridge. If it is close to SB then most of us buy. If it truly does not beat the PHII X6 then AMD CPUs will be in BIG trouble and most likely would not be able to withstand the financial hit it takes from releasing a piece of crap. So you have to ask yourself, "would they really release something that cannot even beat their old CPUs and create such a hype around it?" I guess they could, but I dont see why. Also with all the hype around BD I dont find it impossible that Intel could shell out quiet a few bucks to make BD look bad with fake leaks and benches to deter some folks. Who knows. Both suggestions i made sound a little far fetched to me, but i guess both could be possible. Either way, we will know soon enough.


doesn't the ATOM from Intel make a counter argument to what you just siad. If its the right price a sales guy can sell anything.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*











a brief idea on what amd is aiming for the next couple of years


It's actually a slide JF presented over 2 years ago.

"Wow, this article is really wrong.
First off, this is not a roadmap.
Secondly, it is not new.
This was a slide from a presentation almost a year ago in Bruhl, Germany where I presented on the "future of processing." It was a "what if" type of presentation and the voice over at the beginning of the presentation was that this is only a discussion of what could possibly happen and by no means represented any future products.

It was a theoretical discussion at best.
JF-AMD"
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...hitecture.html


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Sigh. Who said the NDA is lifting Oct. 12th anyway? I certainly don't recall AMD stating that.










the AMD guy did on the channel they had on preview today... he didnt say the NDA lifts he said "BULLDOZER WILL BE RELEASED NEXT WEEK" unless he is a complete idiot.. and im not saying he isnt.. he said that on saturday and this morning is sunday and that would mean this week.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


the AMD guy did on the channel they had on preview today... he didnt say the NDA lifts he said "BULLDOZER WILL BE RELEASED NEXT WEEK" unless he is a complete idiot.. and im not saying he isnt.. he said that on saturday and this morning is sunday and that would mean this week.


Was already answered a while back, but thank you.







I must've missed that preview.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Was already answered a while back, but thank you.







I must've missed that preview.


yes i responded before I actually read the last two pages.. you can remove both of these posts pioneer


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


It's actually a slide JF presented over 2 years ago.

"Wow, this article is really wrong.
First off, this is not a roadmap.
Secondly, it is not new.
This was a slide from a presentation almost a year ago in Bruhl, Germany where I presented on the "future of processing." It was a "what if" type of presentation and the voice over at the beginning of the presentation was that this is only a discussion of what could possibly happen and by no means represented any future products.

It was a theoretical discussion at best.
JF-AMD"
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...hitecture.html



i never said it was the exact route amd was aiming ..

i only said it was a brief idea of what amd was aiming for the near future ..

trying to put a positive tone in a thread that has gone down in quality over the last few months


----------



## Darkpriest667

yes thats because I was missing the quality now goes back up up up!!!

look I'll release some real benchmarks with the settings you see below and I challenge a 2500k and 2600k owner to use the same specs I have which are listed below to do the same benchmarks.. cause I will be having this thing 3 to 5 days after its released in my current rig which was built for bulldozer.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


yes thats because I was missing the quality now goes back up up up!!!

look I'll release some real benchmarks with the settings you see below and I challenge a 2500k and 2600k owner to use the same specs I have which are listed below to do the same benchmarks.. cause I will be having this thing 3 to 5 days after its released in my current rig which was built for bulldozer.


If only you had a GTX580, I'd take you up on that challenge.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


yes thats because I was missing the quality now goes back up up up!!!

look I'll release some real benchmarks with the settings you see below and I challenge a 2500k and 2600k owner to use the same specs I have which are listed below to do the same benchmarks.. cause I will be having this thing 3 to 5 days after its released in my current rig which was built for bulldozer.


What cooling are you gonna be using? That hyper 212? That'd be interesting to see.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


If only you had a GTX580, I'd take you up on that challenge.










Wouldn't that be a good comparison though?

AMD's best CPU + AMD's Best SINGLE GPU.

VS

Intel 2500K + 580.

( Of course, we'd have to completely ignore the price







, I'm sure no one would mind







)


----------



## Canis-X

[retracted]


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


If only you had a GTX580, I'd take you up on that challenge.










Send me yours... or I have 2 6850s and we could use those.. I'd send you one and I'd use one.. exact same model and specs

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


What cooling are you gonna be using? That hyper 212? That'd be interesting to see.


Yes.. I bought this hyper 212 just for this system and the 1090 T didnt go over 44 when I was running 5 eve's second life 10 firefox windows a tv tuner card running football games today skype msn yahoo many cam etc etc etc... I could prime 95 test it (which hasnt been downloaded on this yet)


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Send me yours... or I have 2 6850s and we could use those.. I'd send you one and I'd use one.. exact same model and specs

Yes.. I bought this hyper 212 just for this system and the 1090 T didnt go over 44 when I was running 5 eve's second life 10 firefox windows a tv tuner card running football games today skype msn yahoo many cam etc etc etc... I could prime 95 test it (which hasnt been downloaded on this yet)












Dude, I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to break down this 580 and pack it up in a box. I can remove it from my rig easy enough, but I'd have to completely remove the cooler to pack it up and send it.....not gonna do that. Remember, its got a modded H50 bolted to it.









Not to mention that would leave me without a rig for a while...and I need it to keep my sections clean.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Send me yours... or I have 2 6850s and we could use those.. I'd send you one and I'd use one.. exact same model and specs

Yes.. I bought this hyper 212 just for this system and the 1090 T didnt go over 44 when I was running 5 eve's second life 10 firefox windows a tv tuner card running football games today skype msn yahoo many cam etc etc etc... I could prime 95 test it (which hasnt been downloaded on this yet)


You hitting up a retail store, or ordering online?

I can't wait to see the scores of OCN'ers. Even when SB was released, I was more interested in real world performance vs reviews.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*











Dude, I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to break down this 580 and pack it up in a box. I can remove it from my rig easy enough, but I'd have to completely remove the cooler to pack it up and send it.....not gonna do that. Remember, its got a modded H50 bolted to it.









Not to mention that would leave me without a rig for a while...and I need it to keep my sections clean.










He said he'd send you the 6850.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*











Dude, I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to break down this 580 and pack it up in a box. I can remove it from my rig easy enough, but I'd have to completely remove the cooler to pack it up and send it.....not gonna do that. Remember, its got a modded H50 bolted to it.









Not to mention that would leave me without a rig for a while...and I need it to keep my sections clean.










Im sorry LOL... I make things simple to remove and maintenance.. all that fancy shmancy gets you milliseconds of time.. Well if any of us here can tell a millisecond from another I know some guys at the NSA that would like to speak to you.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


You hitting up a retail store, or ordering online?

I can't wait to see the scores of OCN'ers. Even when SB was released, I was more interested in real world performance vs reviews.

He said he'd send you the 6850.










Newegg baby.. Newegg... I'll have my laptop with me all week this week and ill be refreshing every 5 minutes.. I intend on being one of the first people to get a BD chip from them.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


Im sorry LOL... I make things simple to remove and maintenance.. all that fancy shmancy gets you milliseconds of time.. Well if any of us here can tell a millisecond from another I know some guys at the NSA that would like to speak to you.

Newegg baby.. Newegg... I'll have my laptop with me all week this week and ill be refreshing every 5 minutes.. I intend on being one of the first people to get a BD chip from them.


I was going for noise, not fancy shmancy.







The stock cooler was loud and annoying. A modded H50 with some Yate Loon High speeds on it is a LOT easier on my ears.







And I run cooler now too, extra plus.









If somebody pitched in on shipping to see this happen.... I would happily borrow your 6850 and do a bench off with you (and I would keep within voltages of YOUR specifications on your card). If I could afford to buy one, I'd just buy one to toy with, but I wouldn't even be able to cover the cost on shipping right now honestly....Christmas is on the way, and we've got a kid to buy toys for (and me, lol).

So yeah, if shipping were taken care of.... I'd bench off clock for clock with you. Whatever benches you want. I'd even wipe and do a fresh install just for it.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I was going for noise, not fancy shmancy.







The stock cooler was loud and annoying. A modded H50 with some Yate Loon High speeds on it is a LOT easier on my ears.







And I run cooler now too, extra plus.









If somebody pitched in on shipping to see this happen.... I would happily borrow your 6850 and do a bench off with you (and I would keep within voltages of YOUR specifications on your card). If I could afford to buy one, I'd just buy one to toy with, but I wouldn't even be able to cover the cost on shipping right now honestly....Christmas is on the way, and we've got a kid to buy toys for (and me, lol).

So yeah, if shipping were taken care of.... I'd bench off clock for clock with you. Whatever benches you want. I'd even wipe and do a fresh install just for it.



that sounds like a great Idea.. I don't see shipping to be too big of a concern 10 bucks one way so 20 bucks both and I'm pretty sure I can do that. Lets wait until this week and see what we can get going. you have a 7200 RPM drive to run the OS on for the testing? I've got a spare that I can do a fresh install of Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit on and run just the benchmark software and the OS.. nothing super fancy...


----------



## Benz

Again with these Excel made benches and a photoshoped CPU-Z SS? This thread should be closed till the Bulldozer launches, that would definitely be a fair assessment.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


that sounds like a great Idea.. I don't see shipping to be too big of a concern 10 bucks one way so 20 bucks both and I'm pretty sure I can do that. Lets wait until this week and see what we can get going. you have a 7200 RPM drive to run the OS on for the testing? I've got a spare that I can do a fresh install of Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit on and run just the benchmark software and the OS.. nothing super fancy...


I'm game for it. If it is going to happen, we'll need to eventually move it to PM's for working out the shipping details and whatnot....

But yeah, I'm down for it. I'm bored with my rig, would be fun to have a bench off.









And I've got 2x 7200 RPM drives in RAID0 (F3's). That work? I was just going to wipe my system drive, reinstall, install my daily programs (firefox and AV), the benchmarks of choice, and see what happens. Then after we're done benching, was going to do it all over again so I'd have clean drivers to work with (switching between AMD / Nvidia was a pain the last time I did it).

I'm honestly due for a reformat anyway.







It's been over a year since my last one...and I was on Socket 939 back then.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


that sounds like a great Idea.. I don't see shipping to be too big of a concern 10 bucks one way so 20 bucks both and I'm pretty sure I can do that. Lets wait until this week and see what we can get going. you have a 7200 RPM drive to run the OS on for the testing? I've got a spare that I can do a fresh install of Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit on and run just the benchmark software and the OS.. nothing super fancy...


If you guys manage that it will be sure interesting to read about, best luck with it.

Those Excel benchmarks are made 1 day after the guy won MSI's overclocking contest - at least he is not someone hiding his face and the site was accurate till now,you are right -it's not official - but that's what we can get before takeoff.

I would really like to hear JF-AMD's opinion at those benchmarks - Hell if they are fake - then someone is throwing dirt in your face, with your credibility a simple "Not in line with our experience" would kill all that hype.


----------



## Buckaroo

I still think these guys may not have the bios properly set for the BD.
Like chew said awhile back over at XS A lot of settings can effect the performance good or bad.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post4952360


----------



## mongoled

Hello, I just registered to express my complete and utter disappointment in the abysmal performance that what we will probably see when Bulldozer is launched later this week.

I am particularily disappointed in the manner in which AMD has deceived the enthusiast community by different means in leading us to believe that the Bulldozer CPU would be a 'strong' CPU in MT workloads.

From all the leaks with have seen, the picture looks bleak, and that we have truely had the wool pulled over our eyes.

I have been waiting in anticipation for this release as I was waiting for AMD to release a competitive CPU against the i2600k, so that I could upgrade my current system.

This seems unlikely and now, and I am sure, along with many others, will after many years of only buying AMD, will be forced to move to a different platform.

I really didnt expect to see this, and just wished tht AMD were more truefull, in telling at least those in the enthusiast communities, that they hadnt reached their targets and admitted their failures.

Instead we have been strung along and it does not feel nice.......

I truely am sad


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Again with these Excel made benches and a photoshoped CPU-Z SS? This thread should be closed till the Bulldozer launches, that would definitely be a fair assessment.


Just release your cousin's benchmarks already. You don't have to reveal who he is. A lot of leaks are out already, set the record straight.

We KNOW it's coming next week, AMD said so.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I would really like to hear JF-AMD's opinion at those benchmarks - Hell if they are fake - then someone is throwing dirt in your face, with your credibility a simple "Not in line with our experience" would kill all that hype.


See my sig.


----------



## FurryCreatures

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I'm game for it. If it is going to happen, we'll need to eventually move it to PM's for working out the shipping details and whatnot....

But yeah, I'm down for it. I'm bored with my rig, would be fun to have a bench off.









And I've got 2x 7200 RPM drives in RAID0 (F3's). That work? I was just going to wipe my system drive, reinstall, install my daily programs (firefox and AV), the benchmarks of choice, and see what happens. Then after we're done benching, was going to do it all over again so I'd have clean drivers to work with (switching between AMD / Nvidia was a pain the last time I did it).

I'm honestly due for a reformat anyway.







It's been over a year since my last one...and I was on Socket 939 back then.











I know all of the professional review sites will be doing this same comparison, but for some reason it just seems so much more exciting when I know it'll be done by people on OCN. Stoked.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mongoled*


Hello, I just registered to express my complete and utter disappointment in the abysmal performance that what we will probably see when Bulldozer is launched later this week.

I am particularily disappointed in the manner in which AMD has deceived the enthusiast community by different means in leading us to believe that the Bulldozer CPU would be a 'strong' CPU in MT workloads.

From all the leaks with have seen, the picture looks bleak, and that we have truely had the wool pulled over our eyes.

I have been waiting in anticipation for this release as I was waiting for AMD to release a competitive CPU against the i2600k, so that I could upgrade my current system.

This seems unlikely and now, and I am sure, along with many others, will after many years of only buying AMD, will be forced to move to a different platform.

I really didnt expect to see this, and just wished tht AMD were more truefull, in telling at least those in the enthusiast communities, that they hadnt reached their targets and admitted their failures.

Instead we have been strung along and it does not feel nice.......

I truely am sad











Sorry you wasted your first post on a factless based cry out. Next week you will have a better idea what BD will be like. Any benches you have saw are the same thing we have all been seeing for the last 3-5 months. Since then AMD has done many other steppings of the chips and my 990FX board has had 2 other Bios updates in 3 months. So until the finished FX CPU is released with a board with the correct Bios, take everything you see with a grain of salt.


----------



## cayennemist

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


So until the finished FX CPU is released with a board with the correct Bios, take everything you see with a grain of salt.


This


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Just release your cousin's benchmarks already. You don't have to reveal who he is. A lot of leaks are out already, set the record straight.

We KNOW it's coming next week, AMD said so.

See my sig.










If I do that, he'll never do this kinda thing for me again. I promised him I won't reveal them until launch. But you'll see that these benchmarks will differ from AMD's design meaning he created them, so you won't say that I lied or anything.


----------



## mongoled

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Sorry you wasted your first post on a factless based cry out. Next week you will have a better idea what BD will be like. Any benches you have saw are the same thing we have all been seeing for the last 3-5 months. Since then AMD has done many other steppings of the chips and my 990FX board has had 2 other Bios updates in 3 months. So until the finished FX CPU is released with a board with the correct Bios, take everything you see with a grain of salt.


The post wasnt wasted, it allowed me to express my current dismay.

Where as the info has come from an unofficial source (labs501), I dont agree that it is 'factless' as they have been reliable in the past.

I totally agree that their have been many changes and am really hoping to see something amazing happen next week, but that is now only a HOPE.

A grain of salt is no way enough!

Dont get me wrong am hoping to see something miraculous happen next week, but am no longer holding my breath.....


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mongoled*


The post wasnt wasted, it allowed me to express my current dismay.

Where as the info has come from an unofficial source (labs501), I dont agree that it is 'factless' as they have been reliable in the past.

I totally agree that their have been many changes and am really hoping to see something amazing happen next week, but that is now only a HOPE.

A grain of salt is no way enough!

Dont get me wrong am hoping to see something miraculous happen next week, but am no longer holding my breath.....


Yeah but i really dont think these results are done with the chipsets latest Bios and the latest CPU steppings. But you are entitled to feel how you want.


----------



## mongoled

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Yeah but i really dont think these results are done with the chipsets latest Bios and the latest CPU steppings. But you are entitled to feel how you want.


I dont have any entitlement to 'feel' how I want. As the way I feel is not determined by me, but is effected by external factors.

Have you worked out the secret to make your brain control your emotions?

If so please let me know










I really hope that when the official benchmarks are released, if it turns out that IPC is indeed less that Phenom II, that we will receive an official explanation as to why this is so, since we have been told on numerous occasions that IPC will not be less than previous generation CPU.

I have also noticed that as time has gone on, that the emphasis on IPC has been gently 'moved' on from official AMD quotes.

Its things like this that lead me to believe that we will be disappointed next week.

Really, really hope that this is all hokus pocus and that Bulldozer is an excellent, well balanced CPU.......


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mongoled*


I dont have any entitlement to 'feel' how I want. As the way I feel is not determined by me, but is effected by external factors.

Have you worked out the secret to make your brain control your emotions?

If so please let me know










I really hope that when the official benchmarks are released, if it turns out that IPC is indeed less that Phenom II, that we will receive an official explanation as to why this is so, since we have been told on numerous occasions that IPC will not be less than previous generation CPU.

I have also noticed that as time has gone on, that the emphasis on IPC has been gently 'moved' on from official AMD quotes.

Its things like this that lead me to believe that we will be disappointed next week.

Really, really hope that this is all hokus pocus and that Bulldozer is an excellent, well balanced CPU.......


Wow, mkay. Yes actually my emotions are controlled by the information i feed my brain so i dont jump on a bunch of non since and automatically feel bad. All the time I feel one way about something, but learn more, or get more information and change the way I originally felt. But if thats beyond other peoples control, totally understandable. Wouldnt surprise me a bit.


----------



## flashtest

Hope this makes some of you get a smile








http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/looli.jpg/

I so love google's translator


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Hope this makes some of you get a smile








http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/looli.jpg/

I so love google's translator










Interesting, the article I read a while back said the 4100 would be the delayed one. http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...e-release.html

I mentioned earlier somewhere how Asus has done released 2 official Bios's for the CHV, and that i doubt all these "leaked" benches have been on the latest Bioses and CPU steppings, I was wrong. Apparently there are even more Bios updates for the CHV and the new Steppings of the BD chips. http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...-club-234.html


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Just release your cousin's benchmarks already. You don't have to reveal who he is. A lot of leaks are out already, set the record straight.

We KNOW it's coming next week, AMD said so.



ditto


----------



## Seronx

If FX-8150 is being delayed

Then the thing that is getting benchmarked has to be a FX-8120 or FX-6100 or FX-4100


----------



## djxput

From what I have gathered so far from all these 'leaks' is:

- BD is suggested to perform between a 2500k - 2600k (as per amd)

- Have seen charts that look like they are from amd that suggest the BD will perform as above.

- Most of the leaks put the BD well below what we thought we would see it at(competing with a 2600k or within striking distance (yes in some things but not in most)).

- It has been suggested bios updates and drivers are the reason for these discrepancies.

- If I recall correctly JF stated (perhaps on another forum) that most sales from cpus are Not to enthusiasts; it was suggested 5-10% are being sold to enthusiasts (everyone here). Hence they want to be able to sell their chips to the bestbuys/dells/pcworlds or the world 1st.

.. This is speculative but this statement to me suggested that we as a enthusiast might be disappointed by the results of said BD and the pricing/performance maybe more inline for selling their chip to the other 90% of the market.

So to sum up what I have gathered since reading the past x months on BD ...

Practically all 'leaked' benches look disappointing from a enthusiast standpoint; whether these are due to old bios's/drivers/updates who knows -

I personally hope I am wrong and hope all the 'hopefulls' on this board are right and that - these leaked benches are off and we will be impressed come x date (12th oct?). 
I'm looking to upgrade and would rather upgrade to an AMD based system (generally like their business model more but I do prefer bigger numbers ...

So we'll see what the official reviewers have to say in a few days ...


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crshbndct*


OMG U GUYZZ!!

I Totally just got an FX-8150!! These are the benchmarks that I ran:




Love the windows 98


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


Love the windows 98










And the 6770 vs the 5770, looks about right with the scores.


----------



## Vuashke

haha irfanview


----------



## Disturbed117

Hmmm, i smell another *Lock*.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


- If I recall correctly JF stated (perhaps on another forum) that most sales from cpus are Not to enthusiasts; it was suggested 5-10% are being sold to enthusiasts (everyone here). Hence they want to be able to sell their chips to the bestbuys/dells/pcworlds or the world 1st.


Yes.

And I was doing some other math this week. If you look at where Xeons are sold you get some interesting data. The most popular xeon sold is the E5640. That is an N-7 part. As a matter of fact, N-6, N-7 and N-8 represent ~75% of all of the westmere sales.

So, why is everyone obessing about benchmarks on N if nobody is buying those parts? I think people just like to argue.


----------



## kchris

Yup. AMD CPU's are not really for enthusiasts. Their customers are mainly people who just use their computer out of necessity for Internet browsing and listening to music. Huge market for that as nowadays with social networking everyone needs to have a computer to connect to the internet. Its silly to get mad at AMD for not coming up with elite processors like Sandy Bridge. That's not the market they are catering to. Its amazing that there are as many AMD users on this forum as there are. Loyalty goes a long way.


----------



## kevink82

I dont like the current pricing for bulldozer in malaysia atm..... It is priced 850 ringgit for fx8150!!

Current local market for intel 2600k is 850-900 ringgit, so atm it doesnt look like its gonna sell at all. Only thing is crosshair v is priced 400 cheaper than an intel z68 board of the same class.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Yes.

And I was doing some other math this week. If you look at where Xeons are sold you get some interesting data. The most popular xeon sold is the E5640. That is an N-7 part. As a matter of fact, N-6, N-7 and N-8 represent ~75% of all of the westmere sales.

So, why is everyone obessing about benchmarks on N if nobody is buying those parts? I think people just like to argue.


"In the PC server/workstation processor segment, Intel finished with 94.5% market share, a gain of 0.6%, and AMD earned 5.5%, a loss of 0.6%." 
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS22964411

Guess some of the buyers are actually interested how a CPU performs in benchmarks - even as a sign if the company is able to excel at engineering.


----------



## randrewm97

correct me if im wrong... and im sure i am, but arent these number gonna change as the bios gets updated and other crap. also, some of these test need to be updated to optimize the new architect. im sure i7 will still be faster, but i dont think that was the point of this cpu. it was targeted to be close to the same performance as the 2600k, but be a lot cheaper and be faster than the i5... even on games, which the 2500k is better for gaming than the 2600k. from real world test that ive seen, 8150 out performed the 2600k. it rendered videos a lot faster and ran games better than the 2500k. for me thats a win win... plus that was the es model and prolly older bios. the m5a99x has the best bios for 8150 as of now, but these things will change come next week. i say wait another week or so until we get these updates for accurate results.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevink82*


I dont like the current pricing for bulldozer in malaysia atm..... It is priced 850 ringgit for fx8150!!

Current local market for intel 2600k is 850-900 ringgit, so atm it doesnt look like its gonna sell at all. Only thing is crosshair v is priced 400 cheaper than an intel z68 board of the same class.



Same in Sweden, 8150 is priced as high as 2600k, which is not what I wanted.

The prices will probably drop down when it comes to the release, but the question is if it's worth getting the FX-8150 for 10% less money than the 2600k, if the 2600k beats the 8150 by far.

I'll await the true benches and see.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


Same in Sweden, 8150 is priced as high as 2600k, which is not what I wanted.

The prices will probably drop down when it comes to the release, but the question is if it's worth getting the FX-8150 for 10% less money than the 2600k, if the 2600k beats the 8150 by far.

I'll await the true benches and see.


I have a friend i Qatar, so I hope that it will be cheaper there and that he can buy it for me


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *etlecho*


I have a friend i Qatar, so I hope that it will be cheaper there and that he can buy it for me










Haha lucky, it's a shame that computer components are so expensive in Sweden as you probably know ^_^

Just check the prices in the US and Canada, which I could import without any fees ^_^


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


Wow, mkay. Yes actually my emotions are controlled by the information i feed my brain so i dont jump on a bunch of non since and automatically feel bad. All the time I feel one way about something, but learn more, or get more information and change the way I originally felt. But if thats beyond other peoples control, totally understandable. Wouldnt surprise me a bit.


That's awesome dude! So, some random guy could walk up to you and brutally break your nose with a sucker punch to the face, and you could make yourself feel happy about it and the severe pain. Kudos, the force is strong with you.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


Hmmm, i smell another *Lock*.










lol Yep, this whole thread should be permanently closed altogether IMO until BD's official release.


----------



## mongoled

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


That's awesome dude! So, some random guy could walk up to you and brutally break your nose with a sucker punch to the face, and you could make yourself feel happy about it and the severe pain. Kudos, the force is strong with you.


LOL'z


----------



## saadaziz

one review is out!!
Not English!!
http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...zer-preview/15

if this is really it then am pissed like hell ....


----------



## kchris

Ugh. Sad. Its geared for a very select market, and for that market the 2600k is better.


----------



## NateN34

8 cores...higher clocks....more power use and less performance? What on earth. How is this even better than the Phenom II lineup? Just add 2 more cores to the Phenom X6 and you have a bulldozer it seems.

I thought it would have at least beat Intel's Sandy Bridge by at least a bit, if not a lot.

Wow, what a disappointment, even for me.


----------



## Aedric

Looking more and more likely that the 2600k/2500k will be a better buy in many ways.

Its disappointing but I may as well wait for official benchmarks. I'm also a little wary of sites that break NDA's early. Its poor form.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aedric;15236130*
> Looking more and more likely that the 2600k/2500k will be a better buy in many ways.
> 
> Its disappointing but I may as well wait for official benchmarks. I'm also a little wary of sites that break NDA's early. Its poor form.


They were never under NDA.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;15235538*
> That's awesome dude! So, some random guy could walk up to you and brutally break your nose with a sucker punch to the face, and you could make yourself feel happy about it and the severe pain. Kudos, the force is strong with you.
> 
> lol Yep, this whole thread should be permanently closed altogether IMO until BD's official release.


Yeah, that is relevant to whining over a product you know nothing about. Good comeback! Im done here.


----------



## Nikkopo

If this thread wouldn't be so damn off-topic and if it would only consist of Bulldozer relevant News & Discussions there would be a maximum of 10 pages.


----------



## saadaziz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saadaziz;15236038*
> one review is out!!
> Not English!!
> http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipseturi/amd-fx-8150-bulldozer-preview/15
> 
> if this is really it then am pissed like hell ....


so what are your guys taught on this


----------



## Heavy MG

IMO,don't take anything you see as fact until BD is out and other reviewers get a hold of an FX.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15236205*
> Yeah, that is relevant to whining over a product you know nothing about. Good comeback! Im done here.


This thread is about Bulldozer, not your whining about products or talking about your Jedi-like emotion control. Posts like the ones you made previously are why this thread gets closed and cleaned.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nikkopo;15236244*
> If this thread wouldn't be so damn off-topic and if it would only consist of Bulldozer relevant News & Discussions there would be a maximum of 10 pages.


I sincerely hope the next time this thread gets closed (which should be soon by the looks of it) the mods keep it closed for good until BD is official. BD should be released in a few days, it wouldn't hurt to keep it closed until then, and would probably do a lot more good. Here's to hoping Oct 12th we can put all this drama to bed and have real benchmarks with reviews from trusted reviewers, updated BIOS and no more excuses or speculation, just the facts on topic.


----------



## black96ws6




----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15236518*
> .


Are those yours?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15236518*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1110/a6/7f16e84c0ab6.jpg
> 
> http://s015.radikal.ru/i331/1110/fd/132a6ca2f6cf.jpg
> 
> http://s017.radikal.ru/i413/1110/39/351f67cfca82.jpg
> 
> http://s15.radikal.ru/i188/1110/4b/034633434faf.jpg


Can you give us the source of these images please,or is this yours?


----------



## xd_1771

I consider anything before official release unconfirmed/a rumour for the sake of the fact that final optimizations (BIOS, OS, software) among other things have not been readied, meaning performance may not be representative of the final product.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15236565*
> I consider anything before official release unconfirmed/a rumour for the sake of the fact that final optimizations (BIOS, OS, software) among other things have not been readied, meaning performance may not be representative of the final product.


XD there's a guy in the oc.ua thread who's impersonating another user and also just posting garbage, can you please take care of it?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megacharge;15236466*
> This thread is about Bulldozer, not your whining about products or talking about your Jedi-like emotion control. Posts like the ones you made previously are why this thread gets closed and cleaned.
> 
> I sincerely hope the next time this thread gets closed (which should be soon by the looks of it) the mods keep it closed for good until BD is official. BD should be released in a few days, it wouldn't hurt to keep it closed until then, and would probably do a lot more good. Here's to hoping Oct 12th we can put all this drama to bed and have real benchmarks with reviews from trusted reviewers, updated BIOS and no more excuses or speculation, just the facts on topic.


How are you going to turn this around. You are the only one whining. Im complaining about you whining over the leaked benches like they are the end all be all of BD. Dont turn this around on me buddy.

Edit: NM, you are not the guy I was talking to. So how you got in commenting on my comments about someone else that was crying over the leaked benches I dont know. You should go back and read some. Sorry bout the confusion. Because I believe the same as you, you just didnt read what i was responding to when I was talking about the emotion thing, that was in response to another guys feeling on BD. Just taking a random comment by me and responding was not the right thing to do.


----------



## black96ws6

Not mine. One of the people from the Romanian thread decided to go get one himself, he is going to bench it as soon as he puts it together.

I will post the results


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15236438*
> IMO,don't take anything you see as fact until BD is out and other reviewers get a hold of an FX.


Somehow i expected you to say that.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15236583*
> XD there's a guy in the oc.ua thread who's impersonating another user and also just posting garbage, can you please take care of it?


I do not mod the news forum but I have reported the posts and notified other mods about it. Comments like these are best sent to me via private message, by the way.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15236565*
> I consider anything before official release unconfirmed/a rumour for the sake of the fact that final optimizations (BIOS, OS, software) among other things have not been readied, meaning performance may not be representative of the final product.


Agreed:thumb: too many people are jumping the gun with all the speculation. Fact is i just can't see how anyone could logically believe the benchmarks from 501 that Thuban/deneb beats Zambezi without something being off. People getting too bent out of shape and being a little too gullible IMO.


----------



## Darkpriest667

a 6790? HAHAHAHAHAH Im sorry. I just think its stupid to complain about benchmarks with a 6790 compared to a 580 GTX which is most of the intel benchmarks we saw were with a 580....

Silly rabbit... tricks are for kids!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15236685*
> Agreed:thumb: too many people are jumping the gun with all the speculation. Fact is i just can't see how anyone could logically believe the benchmarks from 501 that Thuban/deneb beats Zambezi without something being off. People getting too bent out of shape and being a little too gullible IMO.


3 leaks have been posted in 3 days and all show legitimate numbers. I think the only "Gullible" ones are the members who refuse to open there eyes and see amd has produced a dud.

There's no magical bios coming that will help it perform better. The Lab numbers are solid using the latest crosshair bios and AGEIA


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15236766*
> 3 leaks have been posted in 3 days and all show legitimate numbers. I think the only "Gullible" ones are the members who refuse to open there eyes and see amd has produced a dud.


Typical fanboy. It looks like this is really getting to you, eh? Seems your nervous that your previous outdated 2500k will be overthrown in just a couple days. These aren't confirmed benchmarks.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15236766*
> 3 leaks have been posted in 3 days and all show legitimate numbers. I think the only "Gullible" ones are the members who refuse to open there eyes and see amd has produced a dud.
> 
> There's no magical bios coming that will help it perform better. The Lab numbers are solid using the latest crosshair bios and AGEIA


So your telling me, that its too gullible to believe that these numbers are wrong, that a architecture they've been working on for years is slower than their existing architecture? Something is offset, they would be digging their own grave in the cpu market to release such a product. I'm not doubting that bulldozer could be a lot lower than expected...but below performance of thuban/deneb? I think not..


----------



## conzilla

I sure hope these benchmarks are not real. I truly hope its a huge trick by AMD.


----------



## Nikkopo

But guys, even tho I like AMD and would like to see BD make a success, hear this:

You state that we shouldn't trust anything until the release date, because of BIOS and other stuff.

But imagine those that are under NDA and have already tested BD and are going to release their articles October 12th.

They will most likely have the BIOS that is up to date at the moment, and thus your statement that BIOS will change the BD's performance won't really be true.

If you think for example BIOS is going to improve the performance a bunch, we should wait a couple of weeks until everything is stable and correct, and not trust the articles coming out October 12 either.

English is not my native language but I hope you understood my point, if not, just ask.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrEnKeR;15236797*
> Typical fanboy. It looks like this is really getting to you, eh? Seems your nervous that your previous outdated 2500k will be overthrown in just a couple days. These aren't confirmed benchmarks.


10 posts in and already calling me a fanboy. You'll do well here kid


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15236766*
> 3 leaks have been posted in 3 days and all show legitimate numbers. I think the only "Gullible" ones are the members who refuse to open there eyes and see amd has produced a dud.


Those who believe these "leaks" consisting of photoshopped CPU-Z shots and mixed up excel slides are even more gullible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15236824*
> 10 posts in and already calling me a fanboy. You'll do well here kid


Sometimes it's necessary to call things out as they are.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15236812*
> So your telling me, that its too gullible to believe that these numbers are wrong, that a architecture they've been working on for years is slower than their existing architecture? Something is offset, they would be digging their own grave in the cpu market to release such a product. I'm not doubting that bulldozer could be a lot lower than expected...but below performance of thuban/deneb? I think not..


Exactly,so instead of calling anyone out for saying these are fake should just sit back and wait for more reviews to confirm if any of this is true or not.


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15236824*
> 10 posts in and already calling me a fanboy. You'll do well here kid


What's wrong with being a long-time lurker? I have 10 posts, so what? If I have to call someone out and put them in their place, so be it. Quit with your bashing. People like you get this thread locked repeatedly.


----------



## Skiivari

Yeah, the post count isn't an intelligence meter.


----------



## Blackops_2

First to settle that little dispute, post do not equal knowledge and fanboism is quite frankly stupid. IMO if a person is spending their hard earned money budget wise, on the product purely because they favor that company, well that's idiotic. You buy based on your budget and best price/performance, end of discussion.

Back to leaked benchmarks what about the previous leaked benchmarks showing the 8150 above the 2600k, the 8150 slightly behind the 2600k, etc. Performance numbers of the leaked benchmarks have been all over the place, until next tuesday anything that is released right now is speculation.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nikkopo;15236823*
> But guys, even tho I like AMD and would like to see BD make a success, hear this:
> 
> You state that we shouldn't trust anything until the release date, because of BIOS and other stuff.
> 
> But imagine those that are under NDA and have already tested BD and are going to release their articles October 12th.
> 
> They will most likely have the BIOS that is up to date at the moment, and thus your statement that BIOS will change the BD's performance won't really be true.
> 
> If you think for example BIOS is going to improve the performance a bunch, we should wait a couple of weeks until everything is stable and correct, and not trust the articles coming out October 12 either.
> 
> English is not my native language but I hope you understood my point, if not, just ask.


very well said,i have stated this as well at the very least AMD have botched the launch by limiting reviewers to 1 to 4 days of BD testing and then their are now rumors of a magical bios coming wednesday and some seem to think it will boost performance 20%(i would love it if it did) but im skeptical as i have never seen such a magical bios.and now many reviewers have had their BD sample and tested it and will publish reviews that wont be representative of the final platform,i call this a bad launch procedure if ever there was one. if this is true.
and i understand AMD had their hands full doing a new uarch and a node shrink at the same time,which is risky and they most likely encountered problems,so even if these recent numbers turn out to be true i think AMD still did good enough on BD,with the price of $250 or less as stated by AMD yesterday they will sell many of these BD chips and AMD will be fine, and in a position to better this uarch down the road and make a comback and maybe,just maybe take the performance lead in the future,but who knows how it will all play out,we will all have to just wait and see


----------



## obi.van.kenobi

if these benchies are true, 2012 will definately be a doomsday year, for amd at least. that would make me very sad...


----------



## Bloitz

Can we please stop the war. Some people say it sucks, others say it doesn't. Well, for now we're both neither wrong nor right. It's a moot point until the official release so I'd suggest we wait a few more days until it's out and lots of reviews have been posted before forming an opinion.
I am not trying to play the good house father role here but frankly it's starting to piss me off seeing these ridiculous arguments over a few reposted reviews.

I've seen some people quoted a guy named chew* who did the WR with the BD IIRC and he said something along the lines: BD can bench bad or good depending on various variables and tests.
So, imho, I'm going to take his word and wait for some other reviewers to test it properly. There's always a bias in every review but if we have enough reviews to compare then we can form an educated opinion. 2 reviews just ain't enough yet.

EDIT:
Oh, and I don't think AMD will go bankrupt if BD fails to beat SB. It's marketed as an 8 core (which it arguably is, just not according to the current definition of a core. But definitions can change over time (Luckily or we would be living on a flat earth in the dark ages







)) with high clocks. And we, the enthusiasts, realize we're a single digit market. People who don't have the knowledge we have will probably buy it because they don't know a CPU can switch threads faster than we can blink and they actually don't need 8 cores to play music in iTunes and tweet at the same time. Even Intel users should admit: it looks good on paper







(NOT saying it is good because I don't know ... yet)

Sorry for the wall of text


----------



## Tweeky

Please put your skills to good use!
What will be the difference's when running a BD on a Crosshair V Formula or a Crosshair IV Formula?
Thanks


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15236948*
> very well said,i have stated this as well at the very least AMD have botched the launch by limiting reviewers to 1 to 4 days of BD testing and then their are now rumors of a magical bios coming wednesday and some seem to think it will boost performance 20%(i would love it if it did) but im skeptical as i have never seen such a magical bios.and now many reviewers have had their BD sample and tested it and will publish reviews that wont be representative of the final platform,i call this a bad launch procedure if ever there was one. if this is true.
> and i understand AMD had their hands full doing a new uarch and a node shrink at the same time,which is risky and they most likely encountered problems,so even if these recent numbers turn out to be true i think AMD still did good enough on BD,with the price of $250 or less as stated by AMD yesterday they will sell many of these BD chips and AMD will be fine, and in a position to better this uarch down the road and make a comback and maybe,just maybe take the performance lead in the future,but who knows how it will all play out,we will all have to just wait and see


Exactly what I meant.

But who knows, this magic BIOS maybe will be released 12th of October haha, in that case, let it go down into history books.

I expect the FX-8150 to perform like a few articles have shown, between the 2500k and 2600k, and also a price that is between those two.

Those who say FX-8150 will crush 2600k I think are being very naive, sure the CPU hasn't been released yet, but of all those that are under NDA and some that have released benchies, I believe that a few of those articles are legit.

But maybe I will be proven wrong, this Wendsday we will find out.


----------



## macca_dj

Just wondering what CPU driver version you are running on your system ?

AMD
View attachment 232845


Could an Intel man post the driver version as well just out of interest,


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15237063*
> Just wondering what CPU driver version you are running on your system ?
> 
> AMD
> View attachment 232845
> 
> 
> Could an Intel man post the driver version as well just out of interest,


----------



## macca_dj

It would appear to me that CPU drivers need to have some updating done to them 2006 would appear pretty old considering the advances in CPU technology,

Or would that make no difference ?

Thanks for the pic 996gt2


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macca_dj;15237171*
> It would appear to me that CPU drivers need to have some updating done to them 2006 would appear pretty old considering the advances in CPU technology,
> 
> Or would that make no difference ?
> 
> Thanks for the pic 996gt2


It doesn't seem to make any difference for Sandy Bridge...


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15237361*
> It doesn't seem to make any difference for Sandy Bridge...


I looked, and have the same 2006 driver


----------



## David164v8

I'm not going to trust any benchmarks before the chip is actually released. Anybody can throw together a few graphs.


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15236553*
> Can you give us the source of these images please,or is this yours?


Same here. Give us a source please.


----------



## catharsis

meh, need more gaming benchmarks. I wanna see primarily FPS in shooters. Cause thats where it counts.


----------



## Buckaroo

Ill probably get a FX6100 to play around with and wait for a revision or Piledriver.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Piledriver is reportedly only 10% faster.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15238994*
> Piledriver is reportedly only 10% faster.


Approx same as IB will be to SB?


----------



## Obakemono

You know how I know BD will be a great processor? All the crap "Leaked reviews" coming out just days before the possible release. Too funny. I think someone _cough_ Intel _cough_ is paying these people to publish pure and utter rubbish about BD because they might have some competition from AMD. Just look at the results thus far: at *least* 3 threads have been locked down because of all the bickering and fighting just today!!! That has to be a record.









For me: My 8120 will be mine by this weekend!! Muwahahaha


----------



## whitekidney

scored 4.89 on cinebench LOL bye amd, not buying a single processor from you ever again until you deliver.


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15236565*
> I consider anything before official release unconfirmed/a rumour for the sake of the fact that final optimizations (BIOS, OS, software) among other things have not been readied, meaning performance may not be representative of the final product.


That's fine, but what are you going to say when it turns out Bulldozer won't be able to compete with SB and has to compete with Thuban?


----------



## kchris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239059*
> scored 4.89 on cinebench


Ugh, its over.


----------



## M3TAl

Its over? I'm sorry but it hasn't even begun yet.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15239064*
> That's fine, but what are you going to say when it turns out Bulldozer won't be able to compete with SB and has to compete with Thuban?


First it will be - "Wait for new Firmware" then "Wait for new Driver" followed by "Wait for better clocking System boards" and then "Wait for Bulldozer 2", Rinse.Repeat.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239059*
> scored 4.89 on cinebench LOL bye amd, not buying a single processor from you ever again until you deliver.


Is it an official test? Nope. Wait until the NDA is up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15239064*
> That's fine, but what are you going to say when it turns out Bulldozer won't be able to compete with SB and has to compete with Thuban?


WHY, oh WHY would AMD spend billions on a new processor that would be *SLOWER* than what they currently offer? Basing your assumptions on incorrect, false or otherwise fake information only makes you look bad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15239087*
> Ugh, its over.


Not for me.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15239195*
> First it will be - "Wait for new Firmware" then "Wait for new Driver" followed by "Wait for better clocking System boards" and then "Wait for Bulldozer 2", Rinse.Repeat.


Buy Sandy Bridge E


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15239195*
> First it will be - "Wait for new Firmware" then "Wait for new Driver" followed by "Wait for better clocking System boards" and then "Wait for Bulldozer 2", Rinse.Repeat.


That's something I've been hearing a lot of recently. Do AMD CPU's need drivers? When I was getting an RO2 update a few weeks ago it wanted to install AMD CPU drivers on my system.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15239212*
> 
> WHY, oh WHY would AMD spend billions on a new processor that would be *SLOWER* than what they currently offer?


Because they already spent 90% of the money evolving it so far, giving it up would be total stupid and pointless.

Instead they sacrificed a little more money, so they could release the product, and then gain money more than those last money they sacrified

=

*PROFIT*


----------



## liberato87

8-core processor, AMD FX-8150 video review

AMD's next-generation architecture based on the Bulldozer processor 8-core FX-8150 with all details in this video. Studies of Turkey, which is one of the first in the world, in this video, the FX-8150 and the Core i7 processor and the Phenom II X6 1100T-2600 compares with the turbo at the same time we look at the performance and overclocking capabilities.


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15239212*
> 
> WHY, oh WHY would AMD spend billions on a new processor that would be *SLOWER* than what they currently offer? Basing your assumptions on incorrect, false or otherwise fake information only makes you look bad.


Billions? Get real. I don't think you understand how much money that is.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15239045*
> You know how I know BD will be a great processor? All the crap "Leaked reviews" coming out just days before the possible release. Too funny. I think someone _cough_ Intel _cough_ is paying these people to publish pure and utter rubbish about BD because they might have some competition from AMD. Just look at the results thus far: at *least* 3 threads have been locked down because of all the bickering and fighting just today!!! That has to be a record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me: My 8120 will be mine by this weekend!! Muwahahaha


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239059*
> scored 4.89 on cinebench LOL bye amd, not buying a single processor from you ever again until you deliver.


Never...


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liberato87;15239326*
> 8-core processor, AMD FX-8150 video review
> 
> AMD's next-generation architecture based on the Bulldozer processor 8-core FX-8150 with all details in this video. Studies of Turkey, which is one of the first in the world, in this video, the FX-8150 and the Core i7 processor and the Phenom II X6 1100T-2600 compares with the turbo at the same time we look at the performance and overclocking capabilities.


Watching the video right now without understanding a bit. All I can say is that Turkish language sounds like a mix of Japanese and French lol


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liberato87;15239326*
> 8-core processor, AMD FX-8150 video review
> 
> AMD's next-generation architecture based on the Bulldozer processor 8-core FX-8150 with all details in this video. Studies of Turkey, which is one of the first in the world, in this video, the FX-8150 and the Core i7 processor and the Phenom II X6 1100T-2600 compares with the turbo at the same time we look at the performance and overclocking capabilities.


2600k pretty much own the 8150 there.


----------



## Shahzad7

Guys, even if bulldozer turns out to be a flop for us enthusiasts, the majority of people (even the ones whole build their own computer from scratch) only look at two things: The amount of cores, and the clock speed.

Bulldozer has 8 cores with 3.6 (assumed) Ghz and at relatively the same price as Intel's 2500k (or very close) who only has 4 cores at 3.3 Ghz.

Most people, will go for bulldozer. It looks so much more enticing and if you don't understand a lot amount single core performance or IPC, then when someone tells you processor x is better, you'd be reluctant to believe so.

On the other hand, if Bulldozer performs well; let's have a party!

On a more serious note, is the 8120 just an underclocked 8150? Or is their something very different about the two.


----------



## pioneerisloud

*Guys, keep this thread ON TOPIC or I WILL issue infractions. My patience is running VERY thin right now with all the leaks going on right now, and all the flaming surrounding them.*


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15239793*
> *Guys, keep this thread ON TOPIC or I WILL issue infractions. My patience is running VERY thin right now with all the leaks going on right now, and all the flaming surrounding them.*


Mate.. No need to get all mad over this, you saw it coming.
Don't censor our reactions, AMD needs this.

I was really expecting something good and then AMD pops out with something that performs worse than the Phenom II's.
You should have seen my face IRL when I saw the benchmark results.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239820*
> Mate.. No need to get all mad over this, you saw it coming.
> Don't censor our reactions, AMD needs this.
> 
> I was really expecting something good and then AMD pops out with something that performs worse than the Phenom II's.
> You should have seen my face IRL when I saw the benchmark results.


Not censoring reactions. But the threads need to stay on topic, without personal attacks.


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15239827*
> Not censoring reactions. But the threads need to stay on topic, without personal attacks.


Why can't we go off topic? If we create another thread with another topic and just mentioning Bulldozer we are redirected here, where we can't say/talk about whatever we want.

The topic should be a General talk about Bulldozer.

EDIT: Why the hell are you deleting posts now.. oh gosh.. whatever.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239849*
> Why can't we go off topic? If we create another thread with another topic and just mentioning Bulldozer we are redirected here, where we can't say/talk about whatever we want.
> 
> The topic should be a General talk about Bulldozer.
> 
> EDIT: Why the hell are you deleting posts now.. oh gosh.. whatever.


It is a general Bulldozer discussion thread.









But we do still have rules to follow here. Trolling and personal attacks aren't allowed, and that's what's being taken out of here.

If you want to discuss off topic things, then go to the Off Topic section, that's what its there for. The ToS still applies there too though.


----------



## Nikkopo

FX-8120 and FX-8150

will probably be like

PII x6 1075t and PII x6 1090t


----------



## pioneerisloud

Not giving any more public warnings, personal attacks are NOT allowed here at OCN. That includes personal attacks on our hardware reps here too (JF-AMD included).


----------



## Seronx

AMD Zambezi expectations

March: 1.0
July: 2.5
September: 2.1
October: -9001










Be interesting to find out what the problem is tho


----------



## M3TAl

Remember when Thomas Dewey beat Harry Truman in the Chicago Tribune for the 1948 presidential election??? Stop looking at these "leaks".


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl;15239957*
> Remember when Thomas Dewey beat Harry Truman in the Chicago Tribune for the 1948 presidential election??? Stop looking at these "leaks".


I'm not that old....You should have done the one with George Bush and that guy who made the internet lol


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15239820*
> You should have seen my face IRL when I saw the benchmark results.


Something like this?


----------



## rubicsphere

JF is online! Hopefully we can get some clarification about all these leaked performance reviews

Edit: now he's off!


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


Something like this?











That, then:










Followed by 5 minutes of laughter, no idea why, I'm still giggling.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


JF is online! Hopefully we can get some clarification about all these leaked performance reviews

Edit: now he's off!


he stated he wont comment during quiet mode before launch(which he and AMD are in)
plus he would only have said what he has said in the past,wait until launch,no benches before is representative of actual performance and then state he is the server guy and cant comment on client


----------



## Seronx

I want a revised Stars 8-core...with AVX capabilities over this

Andy Glew Design < Dirk Meyer Desgin

If it ain't broken don't fix it definitely don't get something else


----------



## whitekidney

http://translate.google.com/translat...ldozer-preview

That thing better be real.


----------



## gurusan

I stated that Bulldozer was going to be a large sack of fail just like Phenom back in June, and looks like I was right.


----------



## Brutuz

Anyone who doesn't wait the immense length of time that is 2-3 days for real reviews, with proper OCing and benchmarking with talking to AMD and buys SB based off leaked reviews is a fool, there's many possible bugs that AMD are still working through.

That said, unless I can get 5.5Ghz on my D14, I'm not bothering with BD assuming leaked performance is real.


----------



## 2010rig

Oh my...



















From this preview:
http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


he stated he wont comment during quiet mode before launch(which he and AMD are in)
plus he would only have said what he has said in the past,wait until launch,no benches before is representative of actual performance and then state he is the server guy and cant comment on client


I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.

The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.

None of that has changed.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Anyone who doesn't wait the immense length of time that is 2-3 days for real reviews, with proper OCing and benchmarking with talking to AMD and buys SB based off leaked reviews is a fool, there's many possible bugs that AMD are still working through..



Why would AMD send out samples and let pc-websites publish the results (october 12th) of their upcoming processor if it has known unsolved bugs?

That would be like cutting off your arm and hoping it would grow back :/


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15240581*
> I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.
> 
> The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.
> 
> None of that has changed.


A wild JF appears.

If this is how Bulldozer really performs.. well..








I really hope these benchmarks are indeed fake.


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Oh my...



















From this preview:
http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview


Uh oh. Doesn't sound too good then.


----------



## swindle

lol

This is a joke.

i5, here I come...


----------



## gurusan

More denials from JF.

BD sucks, end of story.


----------



## rubicsphere

What about the people who purchased retail "silicon" from stores in other countries that are releasing benches? Do we assume that they are missing some software or something that allows BD to run at its full potential.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15240581*
> I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.
> 
> The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.
> 
> None of that has changed.


...or maybe they got their hands on the retail product?
That's definitely a possibility.

Things are not looking good for BD.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15240581*
> 
> The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.
> 
> None of that has changed.


Maybe in a perfect world.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15240581*
> I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.
> 
> The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.
> 
> None of that has changed.


I look forward to the 12th when real reviews come out.

Better yet I look forward 'till OCN'ers get their hands on these CPU's, and we get their feedback 1st hand. I wonder what you will say to us if retail products closely resemble the leaks that have been deemed fake, or not indicative of final performance.

This week will be very interesting.


----------



## conzilla

Iam still hoping it has a time released bios that will not activate till the 12th. Yes i am grasping at straws its all i can do lol.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I look forward to the 12th when real reviews come out.

Better yet I look forward 'till OCN'ers get their hands on these CPU's, and we get their feedback 1st hand. *I wonder what you will say to us if retail products closely resemble the leaks that have been deemed fake, or not indicative of final performance.*

This week will be very interesting.


2010 has been very real about and un-oblivious about this whole situation. *QFT*

When IPC is in fact lower, what will you say, John?


----------



## NuclearSlurpee

Bulldozer is still coming out the 12th right?


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere;15240697*
> What about the people who purchased retail "silicon" from stores in other countries that are releasing benches? Do we assume that they are missing some software or something that allows BD to run at its full potential.


Why would smaller countries with smaller economies release a product prior to a launch in the US for example? Other countries aren't selling bd copies early and its very unlikely that they even received shipment of new processors yet. They're often behind everyone else. Definitely not ahead.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NuclearSlurpee;15240791*
> Bulldozer is still coming out the 12th right?


We will only know for sure when the processors are on the shelf, not before.

Feels like damage control is starting.

Are these fake JF, or are they ES?


----------



## Buckaroo

Come to think of it has any of these reviews shown a pic of the actual processor with numbers on it? For all we know the reviewers could be using cyrix processors.


----------



## NuclearSlurpee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


We will only know for sure when the processors are on the shelf, not before.

Feels like damage control is starting.


Damn. I'm not trusting any benchmarks until the actual retailers carry them and some dude buys it.


----------



## gurusan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Why would smaller countries with smaller economies release a product prior to a launch in the US for example? Other countries aren't selling bd copies early and its very unlikely that they even received shipment of new processors yet. They're often behind everyone else. Definitely not ahead.


Were you born yesterday? People in China and Eastern Europe have ALWAYS had processors first.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.

The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.

None of that has changed.


Then why does the chip tested by the guy in Ukraine show to be a non ES chip?
Anyway thanks JF, that was what I said earlier, don't believe anything you see until release,when reviewers can show what they have.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Anyone who doesn't wait the immense length of time that is 2-3 days for real reviews, with proper OCing and benchmarking with talking to AMD and buys SB based off leaked reviews is a fool, there's many possible bugs that AMD are still working through.

That said, unless I can get 5.5Ghz on my D14, I'm not bothering with BD assuming leaked performance is real.


This.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


Were you born yesterday? People in China and Eastern Europe have ALWAYS had processors first.


How would they when the NDA is still in effect?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Yes, several of them have. *Several of the leaks this weekend were done with RETAIL chips.
*

Examples:


If that person with a "retail" chip has nothing to hide then why is part of the barcode & serial number covered?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


I don't know how they get their chips without signing the NDA, or perhaps they just don't care about breaking it....but every generation they have the hardware first.

How many more pictures do you need? These are retail samples being tested and they suck a fat one. Even if they weren't, do you really think microcode and bios updates will suddenly turn it into something awesome?


Why do you even care about any of this in the first place when you have a 2500k? Go back to the Intel side already.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


Come to think of it has any of these reviews shown a pic of the actual processor with numbers on it? For all we know the reviewers could be using cyrix processors.


Yes, several of them have. *Several of the leaks this weekend were done with RETAIL chips.
*

Examples:


----------



## rubicsphere

Ah you bullies scared him away.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Sorry, just looking for answers


----------



## gurusan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15240860*
> How would they when the NDA is still in effect?


I don't know how they get their chips without signing the NDA, or perhaps they just don't care about breaking it....but every generation they have the hardware first.

How many more pictures do you need? These are retail samples being tested and they suck a fat one. Even if they weren't, do you really think microcode and bios updates will suddenly turn it into something awesome?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Okay, we don't want to drive this thread to the ground.
I'm not saying that the recent benchmarks are fake, I'm saying we should wait for "official" benchmarks.

So please, at least until then...
Take it easy on JF.


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Yes, several of them have. *Several of the leaks this weekend were done with RETAIL chips.
*

Examples:





























Can you link me to those leaks? I don't think I've seen them.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.

The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.

None of that has changed.


since you quoted me did you read what i wrote? i answered another person wondering what you would say and i pretty much nailed it right,well except that you commented on it and made me wrong(quiet mode and client and all)

Quote:



he stated he wont comment during quiet mode before launch(which he and AMD are in)
plus he would only have said what he has said in the past,*wait until launch,no benches before is representative of actual performance* and then state he is the server guy and cant comment on client


i pretty much said what you said?


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15240581*
> I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.
> 
> The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. *People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.*
> 
> None of that has changed.


That is not true at all. There are ways and means of getting hold of retail samples illegally and people do. I've been patiently waiting for BD but these latest "leaks" made my heart sink.


----------



## Don Karnage

And so starts the "Damage Control"


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

what ever happened to amd saying that bd was going to be 50% faster then current gerneration? The leaks so far show it being actually slower per cycle then current gen.

JFAMD if this is true if I were u I would chance my oc.net user name. there are going to be alot of unhappy customers.


----------



## QuackPot

http://www.msi.com/service/power-supply-calculator/

Select the 8150 and look at the power consumption.


----------



## JF-AMD

Guys, think about this for a minute. You're seeing a bunch of different numbers coming in.

And there is variance in all of those numbers, right?

So obviously they aren't all correct, right? Some probably could be, but you really have no way of knowing what is real and what isn't.

I am not saying that everything is fake, I have no way of knowing. But I am guessing that the amd fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look great and the intel fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look bad.

Until the actual reviews come out, everything is suspect in my mind. High scores and low scores.

I stand by my earlier statement that a lot of the scores will not be representative.

As for parts showing up on the street, that shouldn't be happening.

It's not NDA issue because an NDA is only about the release of information, selling before launch is an embargo issue and resellers are not supposed to sell before launch. So if those are real parts, then someone is breaking the embargo. That isn't supposed to happen.


----------



## JF-AMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;15241161*
> what ever happened to amd saying that bd was going to be 50% faster then current gerneration? The leaks so far show it being actually slower per cycle then current gen.
> 
> JFAMD if this is true if I were u I would chance my Overclock.net user name. there are going to be alot of unhappy customers.


That was a server statement and it was focused on throughput for a 16-core processor.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


That was a server statement and it was focused on throughput for a 16-core processor.


my bad....sorry
are you still standing by ipc increase over current gen arch?


----------



## Nocturin

Meh, wake me when the (semi)intelligent discussion of real reviews start.

Personally, I'm waiting for user reviews/benchies. I'm hoping chew* and company @ XS and OCN have things to post when the time comes.

Balla,

You going to buy and bench? You provide good data.


----------



## Tom Thumb

This is gonna get ugly. Take it easy guys. You don't have to buy it if you don't want it.


----------



## rubicsphere

If you poke around there are plenty of people with retail chips. So consider embargo, or whatever, breached. And those numbers are disappointing.


----------



## Blackops_2

I agree with you JF, i'm not passing judgement till i see actual reviews. I just wish everyone thought like that. Maybe i'm too skeptic?

Also still, even if BD wasn't what everyone expected, since when do companies take a step backwards in performance of architecture that is to replace existing architecture? The project would've been scrapped if it performed equal to or under Deneb/Thuban, or i would imagine it would. It's almost like people are looking for it to be a failure because it's been delayed etc. and they're angry..


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


If you poke around there are plenty of people with retail chips. So consider embargo, or whatever, breached. And those numbers are disappointing.


ehem.

http://www.eyeforretail.com/internal/interviews.shtml


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Guys, think about this for a minute. You're seeing a bunch of different numbers coming in.

And there is variance in all of those numbers, right?

So obviously they aren't all correct, right? Some probably could be, but you really have no way of knowing what is real and what isn't.

I am not saying that everything is fake, I have no way of knowing. But I am guessing that the amd fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look great and the intel fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look bad.

Until the actual reviews come out, everything is suspect in my mind. High scores and low scores.

I stand by my earlier statement that a lot of the scores will not be representative.

As for parts showing up on the street, that shouldn't be happening.

It's not NDA issue because an NDA is only about the release of information, selling before launch is an embargo issue and resellers are not supposed to sell before launch. So if those are real parts, then someone is breaking the embargo. That isn't supposed to happen.


As an Electronics Engineer by trade (Industrial Automation) I kind of feel sorry for the Engineering teams that worked on this project. The decision to go module processing was probably made by a senior engineer that stood fast to his convictions. The test Engineers would have made there concerns known early about performance and were chastised because of such! Of course, it will be the test engineers who pay the penalty once the performance results hit mass media! I have been in such an experience. You are in Marketing and will perform a superior job trying to sell the server products which will become more difficult once the concerns over the same architecture consumer products performance become known.


----------



## rubicsphere

For example JF:

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview

Very well respected review site with a retail chip.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Electroneng*


As an Electronics Engineer by trade (Industrial Automation) I kind of feel sorry for the Engineering teams that worked on this project. The decision to go module processing was probably made by a senior engineer that stood fast to his convictions. The test Engineers would have made there concerns known early about performance and were chastised because of such! Of course, it will be the test engineers who pay the penalty once the performance results hit mass media! I have been in such an experience. You are in Marketing and will perform a superior job trying to sell the server products which will become more difficult once the concerns over the same architecture consumer products performance become known.


So, you work at AMD and you know the interdynamic of the design team and the associated performance ?

Speculate much ?


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


I'm agree with you JF, i'm not passing judgement till i see actual reviews. I just wish everyone thought like that.

Also still, even if BD wasn't what everyone expected, since when do companies take a step backwards in performance of architecture that is to replace existing architecture? The project would've been scrapped if it performed equal to or under Deneb/Thuban, or i would imagine it would. It's almost like people are looking for it to be a failure because it's been delayed etc. and they're angry..


if and i mean if BD turns out to be slightly slower then previous generation remember how risky it was for AMD to do both a new uarch and shrink at the same time,im sure if problems arose that they did not forsee they would try and fix(delays) but in the end they still need to launch it and if they do/did launch with some minor bugs then they will make the best of the situation and we can look forward to many tweaks to improve this brand new uarch,the older uarch was running out of options for tweak to improve it.even if BD performs bad it will still sell like hotcakes due to its affordable 8 cores and good OCing headroom and AMD will be just fine.IMO


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


http://www.msi.com/service/power-supply-calculator/

Select the 8150 and look at the power consumption.
 



















HAHAHAHA

That is insane xD 100,000,000,000,000,000 Watts of TDP lol


----------



## catharsis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Guys, think about this for a minute. You're seeing a bunch of different numbers coming in.

And there is variance in all of those numbers, right?

So obviously they aren't all correct, right? Some probably could be, but you really have no way of knowing what is real and what isn't.

I am not saying that everything is fake, I have no way of knowing. But I am guessing that the amd fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look great and the intel fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look bad.

Until the actual reviews come out, everything is suspect in my mind. High scores and low scores.

I stand by my earlier statement that a lot of the scores will not be representative.

As for parts showing up on the street, that shouldn't be happening.

It's not NDA issue because an NDA is only about the release of information, selling before launch is an embargo issue and resellers are not supposed to sell before launch. So if those are real parts, then someone is breaking the embargo. That isn't supposed to happen.


in second world eastern european countries, embargos are easily broken. :/

However I do agree with your rational, and I was going to make a similar post early however on my laptop it accidentally backed up a page and erased my post so I said forget. But yes, we've been seeing quite different numbers that are all over the place. Safe to say they are not representative of actual numbers since everything we've seen is so different.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


if and i mean if BD turns out to be slightly slower then previous generation remember how risky it was for AMD to do both a new uarch and shrink at the same time,im sure if problems arose that they did not forsee they would try and fix(delays) but in the end they still need to launch it and if they do/did launch with some minor bugs then they will make the best of the situation and we can look forward to many tweaks to improve this brand new uarch,the older uarch was running out of options for tweak to improve it.even if BD performs bad it will still sell like hotcakes due to its affordable 8 cores and good OCing headroom and AMD will be just fine.IMO


From the benchmarks the 8150 is looking slower then the 1100T. 1100T is 174.99, 8150 is 260. How does amd expect to move these processors?


----------



## Electroneng

This has been disappointing to me! I was planning to purchase a 8120 or 8150 on release but now that has changed. I feel, and hope, that any performance increases may be felt with the 6100 or 4100 series chips as that is where current software offerings are centered. I am sure we will see benches on these CPU's shortly after the flagship chips are tested!


----------



## whitekidney

Okay okay.. fine, seeing brighter benchmarks now, looks like BD isn't that bad afterall.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

I cant believe I waited for bd this long and to find out its almost slower then current gen penoms...I could have been enjoying the added perfomance of sandybridge for almost entire year now...
good bye amd.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


For example JF:

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview

Very well respected review site with a retail chip.


Fuzzy pic and blacked out CPU numbers don't make it a retail CPU.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


From the benchmarks the 8150 is looking slower then the 1100T. 1100T is 174.99, 8150 is 260. How does amd expect to move these processors?


at the event yesterday AMD said all FX cpu's will be less than $250
as to how they expect to move them,well average users will see 8 core cpu for $220 to $250 and eat it up,the worlds first 8 core consumer cpu and its a steal.plus add the very decent OCing headroom and enthusiasts will eat it up for OCing fun


----------



## Electroneng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


So, you work at AMD and you know the interdynamic of the design team and the associated performance ?

Speculate much ?


I have worked for 6 different companies and the experiences have been similar. As you stated, this is just speculation!

*And of course you are educated enough to make this statement! Please give your career experience my dear sir!*


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Fuzzy pic and blacked out CPU numbers don't make it a retail CPU.










http://www.overclock.net/amd-general...s-benches.html


----------



## GatorLord

Man, I really had my hopes up...I mean REALLY, as in I'm WAY long AMD in my portfolio. I just couldn't resist that low P/E stock when it went below $5. Maybe you guys can help me make sure I'm not really stupid.

I've been watching AMD for a while now and made a few coins on it daytrading; but have decided to make a slightly longer play based on this Bulldozer business and APU fusion Trinity stuff coming out in a few months.

As for BD, I'm beginning to believe the benches that are coming out, since the release is so close all the retailers would have begun receiving bulk product and their techies couldn't resist the chance to build a machine with shelf stock and then post up numbers or pinch one for a shark website to do the same.

That said, why do the comparisons all seem to bench an FX-8150 against an i7-2600K chip that costs about $70 more, instead of the i5-2500K one right next door price wise and market wise? It's clearly pointed at the i5 if you ask me (a non expert).

I also noticed that AMD published updated bios for the AM3+ boards in order to support BD. Oddly, you have to have another earlier AM3 chip to flash the bios before installing BD. Wouldn't they use optimal code here? Or, would they use a crippled bios broadcast pre-release for basic functionality outside the 'NDA Circle of Trust' (who would have optimal code) and then optimal code on release date to 'catch' the competition unawares and shut up the naysayers? Old-timers, has this kind of thing ever been done before?

Sorry for the puzzled post....but I'm kinda puzzled now. I'm hoping that they're about to pull some kind of crazy killer rabbit out of their ... hats, but the business major in me says the price tells the whole story: Between a 2500K and a 2600K...and neat metal can.

Oh well, at $5 a share there's still a huge upside if history is any guide and they can get even the slightest traction on BD, APUs, GPGPUs, etc... patience was never my strong suit.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


http://www.overclock.net/amd-general...s-benches.html


News flash:
*It's not an official source!*
Film @11. 









http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview
FYI this was the link I was talking about 2010. Try reading the post next time.


----------



## whitekidney

If BD performs good I'll consider removing my video.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


News flash:
*It's not an official source!*
Film @11. 










Who's an official source then? Amd?


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Who's an official source then? Amd?


Umm, Yes.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Fuzzy pic and blacked out CPU numbers don't make it a retail CPU.










I agree and I hope that is the case. Not looking good though. Should've kept my 2500k 2 more weeks!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


I agree and I hope that is the case. Not looking good though. Should've kept my 2500k 2 more weeks!


Why would you downgrade to amd from the best gaming processor on the market?


----------



## uncholowapo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


I cant believe I waited for bd this long and to find out its almost slower then current gen penoms...I could have been enjoying the added perfomance of sandybridge for almost entire year now...
good bye amd.


Good, we don't need more cry babies. Seriously, if you signed up to the site just to say that then you shouldn't even have the right to voice your opinion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


at the event yesterday AMD said all FX cpu's will be less than $250
as to how they expect to move them,well average users will see 8 core cpu for $220 to $250 and eat it up,the worlds first 8 core consumer cpu and its a steal.plus add the very decent OCing headroom and enthusiasts will eat it up for OCing fun


Plus, the quad cores have potential to unlock


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Why would you downgrade to amd from the best gaming processor on the market?


I took a gamble on BD. Needless to say it may not have been a wise one.


----------



## Buckaroo

I still see a lot of tinkering potential in these chips despite what the benchmarks say. I will definitely buy one to play with.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


News flash:
*It's not an official source!*
Film @11. 









http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...ldozer-preview
FYI this was the link I was talking about 2010. Try reading the post next time.


I had already addressed that here. After reading this:









I really don't know how trustworthy reviews will be, surely they all won't budge and will simply reveal the truth. Besides if BD performs greatly, we'll find out sooner or later when users get their hands on them.

I'm looking forward to real world user's performance numbers more than anything at this point.

I was just pointing you to something else. Official or not, you can't deny he has a retail chip, serial number isn't blurred out here:









He's even LIVE benching right now: 
http://www.justin.tv/bassbench/b/297094100?


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

why did they bring back the fx name? its a far cry from those days.


----------



## Derp

I wonder if AMD will be sending a review sample to [H]? They kinda raged at the low performance of phenom II for being slower than the i7's and even the Q9550 and up but phenom II was an actual upgrade from AMD's previous processors...... I would love to see [H]'s reaction after reviewing bulldozer with a step back in IPC!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I had already addressed that. After reading this:









I really don't know how trustworthy reviews will be, surely they all won't budge and will simply reveal the truth. Besides if BD performs greatly, we'll find out sooner or later when users get their hands on them.

I'm looking forward to real world user's performance number more than anything at this point.

I was just pointing you to something else. Official or not, you can't deny he has a retail chip, serial number isn't blurred out here:










Anandtech and TPU should be spot on and not feed us some crap. I can't say the same about everyone else tho.

In the other thread someone posted that Amd reps were calling people doing reviews and asking them to not bench games at low res


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*


I took a gamble on BD. Needless to say it may not have been a wise one.


I feel you pain - might be running a 1090T next week instead of a BD. We'll see though.


----------



## Obakemono

_For all that have yet to read this BD pre-release guide by JF-AMD:_

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

Q. I saw a benchmark on xyz website. Is that how bulldozer will perform?A. No. Nothing posted before launch will be representative of actual performance. To get actual performance, you need:

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

Without these things (and there are probably more), you cannot get an accurate benchmark. Any extrapolation of a crappy benchmark gives you a crappy estimate of actual performance. Period.

Oh, and many of the benchmarks that you see were probably not run, those are just charts made in excel. It's really easy to make a chart in excel - what do you want, bulldozer faster by 3716%? Intel faster by 293%? Sure, I can do either one in 10 seconds. Why are you arguing about benchmarks that probably aren't real?

Q. When are you launching? Why don't you release the date?A. When we launch, we launch. I will not comment on dates, I will not comment on schedules. We do not release dates prior to launch, at most we give quarter granularity. Giving the date out will stall demand. We have a business to run. While you might think that it will make your life easier to not have to guess, the reality is that we have a business to run and the minute you let the date out, sales stall. For everything. The cost impact of announcing the launch date is always bigger and drives these decisions.

Q. What are the prices?
A. Look at the above question and you have your answer.

Q. Why don't you release benchmarks before launch? You could steal so much business away from the other guy?
A. Again, releasing benchmarks before launch will simply stall sales. Believe me, if the competition thinks they are out of position, will they just sit back and say "oh well" or will they react? Handing them benchmarks is simply giving them time to form a strategy. I am not in the business of helping them, they are on their own on this one.

Q. Will bulldozer be faster than....?
A. I don't need to finish the question, please read above.

Q. I read on xyz site that you were launching on xxxxx?A. Yeah, and I read on another site that elvis was still alive. The reason I don't comment on date rumors is that there are a limited number of days in the quarter. Once you say no to some, and suddenly say "no comment" or don't answer that one, immediately everyone thinks that is the date. So, no matter how crazy it sounds, you can't answer any of them.

Q. I saw someone selling bulldozer parts online, that must mean the launch is happening, right?A. No. First off, many of the people that are advertising parts for sale ahead of time do not have parts in hand. Buyer beware. If they are selling engineering samples, we will take care of that. Occasionally parts are loaded into disti databases, and if the flag is set wrong, it can flow through EDI to a partner's database and show up online. That does not mean parts are available. Oh, and sometimes distis use planned pricing and part numbers as placeholders, so don't believe what you see. Nobody is allowed to advertise parts ahead of launch.

Q. I know someone who knows someone who has a cousin who lives next to...?A. Ask yourself this. Would you take investment advice from someone like that? If not, put a big grain of salt into those conversations.

Q. Why haven't you guys launched?
A. The key to a successful product is lauching it once you are ready. When you are trying to put hundreds of millions of transistors onto a piece of sand about the size of your thumbnail, there is a lot going on. It's a pretty complicated busines.

Q. Why don't you comment on client stuff? Why don't you get a client guy to post on here?
A. I am in the server world, I comment on my products. I will not comment on their products, because I don't want them commenting on mine. The few times I have ventured into the client world, I have caught flack for my comments. It is not worth the trouble. Based on the filth that seeps into my inbox from a very small segment of the enthusiast world, I can understand why the client people might not want to make their names known. When you are attacked in a vicious way for no reason, and you are doing this on your own time, you start to ask "why bother"?

Q. I see you have <feature x> on server, so we will see that on client too?A. I can't say for sure. We both productize different features based on our customer needs. Wait for the launch to see for sure.

Q. Why aren't you doing an unlocked Opteron so I can do 2P overclock?A. First the market for 2P client systems is tiny, and getting smaller every day. While you would like to buy one, there just aren't enough people to do that. Second, I want to focus my time on servers, client overclocking will not be supported because it takes efforts away from making virtualization and cloud computing better.

Q. If AMD does beat intel in xyz it is the end of the roadA. OK, this is not a question, but enough people make statements like this. AMD is a 40 year old company, not likely.

Q. Is IPC higher on bulldozer? All I care about is IPC.A. IPC is simply a measurement. What if IPC was 2X what it is today, but clock speed was 500MHz. Is that what you want? You are getting double IPC, right? IPC is only one measure. The people that are telling you IPC is the only thing that matters have an agenda. Taking only one measurement, out of context, is like trying to say that a person's weight is all that matters. I weigh 195. Does that make me fat? Does that make me skinny? It is impossible to say unless you know my height. IPC is like weight - it tells you something in context to other factors, but is meaningless on its own.

Q. What about single threaded performance?A. See above. Also, if all you care about is single threaded performance, might I recommend a lovely, inexpensive single core processor for your system?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


_For all that have yet to read this BD pre-release guide by JF-AMD:_

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

Q. I saw a benchmark on xyz website. Is that how bulldozer will perform?A. No. Nothing posted before launch will be representative of actual performance. To get actual performance, you need:

*Final production silicon*


DEF have that


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


DEF have that











Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

See JF-AMD's release guide.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

See JF-AMD's release guide.


Let me ask you something.

When Sandy Bridge released, was all of that required?

If so, please point me to where Intel or any one made such requirements.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me ask you something.

When Sandy Bridge released, was all of that required?

If so, please point me to where Intel or any one made such requirements.


That was Intel. We are talking about AMD.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


That was Intel. We are talking about AMD.


I was talking about Sandy Bridge the *CPU*, it didn't need such requirements. Heck I can't think of a single CPU from either AMD or Intel that needed all of those requirements upon release.

If you can think of just 1 ( BESIDES Bulldozer ), please point it out.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me ask you something.

When Sandy Bridge released, was all of that required?

If so, please point me to where Intel or any one made such requirements.


Intel has a Plug and Play policy they have to make CPUs better than the previous architecture or no one buys

Intel competes mainly with Intel (one of the problems of having a huge market share)

Now AMD is using a new architecture(Andy Glew this time instead of the legion of Dirk Meyer) and it might not have a plug and play nature and seeming as it going it would seem that this Andy Glew design is a $%##% to use

K10.5 -> K12 we saw improvement

but K15 is an utter failure

If a program used AuthenticAMD as tags to find the quickest path for AMD CPUs well you can't do 12 Flop on 6 cores now


----------



## gurusan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

See JF-AMD's release guide.


If you really think those things are going to make any significant difference to BD performance then you are deluding yourself.

...and for JF to imply that they would is not really impressive.


----------



## Coopa

I'll be waiting for this official release Bulldozer. I'm still disappointed by these results.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


If you really think those things are going to make any significant difference to BD performance then you are deluding yourself.

...and for JF to imply that they would is not really impressive.


Uhhh, Gigabyte just dropped a BIOS 3 days ago for FX cpus.


----------



## gurusan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Uhhh, Gigabyte just dropped a BIOS 3 days ago for FX cpus.


Your point being?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I had already addressed that here. After reading this:

I really don't know how trustworthy reviews will be, surely they all won't budge and will simply reveal the truth. Besides if BD performs greatly, we'll find out sooner or later when users get their hands on them.

I'm looking forward to real world user's performance numbers more than anything at this point.

I was just pointing you to something else. Official or not, you can't deny he has a retail chip, serial number isn't blurred out here:


One benchmark was proven to be affected by some kind of software bug (LinX, yet one core was 20c higher than the others? Obvious bug either in the BIOS/Cool and Quiet/Turbo or the temp sensor software.

That guy could be AMDs CEO, but that doesn't make his results more valid until we know all the facts about that side of it, at least.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


DEF have that


And the rest?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me ask you something.

When Sandy Bridge released, was all of that required?

If so, please point me to where Intel or any one made such requirements.


That doesn't work as well for two reasons: New socket, meaning *all* boards had the updated microcode and BIOS and it wasn't an entirely new architecture, Intels last entirely new architecture was the P4.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Let me ask you something.

When Sandy Bridge released, was all of that required?

If so, please point me to where Intel or any one made such requirements.


Intel's SB architecture was just a tweaked version of an architecture they've been using for years. Bulldozer is a completely different animal that has been designed differently compared to any microarchitecture before it, from both AMD and Intel.

I'd say that AMD "may" have a trick up their proverbial sleeve, but I doubt it.


----------



## 12Cores

Benches at stock speeds mean absolutely nothing. I don't even know what my 1055t performance is at stock speeds since I overclocked it right out of the box. Bulldozer will be 32nm parts in reality the base clock for these things should be around 4ghz. The only question is how stable these things will be a 5ghz and beyond which are the only benches that will really matter.

For the life of me I don't know why people even care about stock benches.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Since you guys STILL can't stay on topic and stop from personally attacking each other, thread is locked for the time being.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread re opened now that I can sit here and babysit.


----------



## 996gt2

So who's staying up Tuesday night for the Anandtech review?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Thread re opened now that I can sit here and babysit.










Thanks, I'm going to wait till Benchmarks after the NDA and benchmarks after 3 months

-----
If they are disappointing as the leaks are one question will come up to my head:

*"Why?!"*

Did AMD leave the K8 based architectures.

Did AMD place 4 floating point cores when you knew floating point cores are what make LinX and Cinebench benchmarks look purdy


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


So who's staying up Tuesday night for the Anandtech review?










 What are you talking about?


----------



## black96ws6

I'm hoping there's some sort of BIOS\\patch\\driver update that will fix things.

John did say PH2 has to share resources while BD doesn't, so it's more like 1.5 ALU, etc, compared to 2 with BD.

And he did mention that IPC\\single-threaded performance increases.

Now again, things change, maybe at the time that was the *expectation* based on synthetic design modeling, then once everything was setup and configured it just didn't turn out that way...


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Thread re opened now that I can sit here and babysit.










This thread gets so full of butthurt so fast that I'm gonna have to stack up on babypowder before I read through it.

Ontopic: Norwegian ETA and prices:

*FX-8150*

SKU: FD8150FRGUBOX
1 956,-

*FX-8120*

SKU: FD8120FRGUBOX
1 630,-

*FX-6100*

SKU: FD6100WMGUSBX
1 384,-

*ETA: 18.10.2011*


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


What are you talking about?


NDA lifted 12 AM Wednesday. The first official reviews should be out sometime after that.

If you go look at Anandtech's Sandy Bridge review...it was posted at *12:01:00 AM *


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


What are you talking about?


Supposedly there's gonna be official results up after midnight.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Thanks, I'm going to wait till Benchmarks after the NDA and benchmarks after 3 months

If they are disappointing as the leaks are one question will come up to my head:

*"Why?!"*

Did you leave the K8 based architectures.

Did you place 4 floating point cores when you knew floating point cores are what make LinX and Cinebench benchmarks look purdy


Because K8 can only scale so far,it's to the point where you can only choose between adding more cores,or clock speed. 
AMD took a big risk by shrinking die size and changing architecture at the same time.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


NDA lifted 12 AM Wednesday. The first official reviews should be out sometime after that.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Supposedly there's gonna be official results up after midnight.



Thanks, I'll be there.


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Supposedly there's gonna be official results up after midnight.


and which midnight are you referring too?


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djxput*


and which midnight are you referring too?


Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.


I think he's referring to time zone.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.


Lol, I think he meant time zone?








'ed


----------



## 996gt2

If you look at Anandtech's previous reviews of major new CPUs, *they have a history of posting right after midnight on the day NDA is lifted:*

Core 2 Duo: 7/14/2006 12:00:00 AM 
Nehalem: 11/3/2008 12:00:00 AM 
Phenom II: 1/8/2009 12:00:00 AM 
Sandy Bridge: 1/3/2011 12:01:00 AM


----------



## el gappo

I believe it's US central time, don't quote me on that tho.


----------



## Bloitz

I shouldn't be so lazy and just google my question


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


I believe it's US central time, don't quote me on that tho.


great. 2am for me.










pioneer, good hunting!


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

well i ain't staying up late but if I don't see a cpuz shot that says ZAMBEZI, ZAMBEZI FX I am not going to believe it. AMD has Never released chips with code name of architecture always the release(SERIES) name.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


great. 2am for me.










pioneer, good hunting!


10pm for me! Woo hoo!


----------



## Obakemono

I just hope the Egg has enough 8120s in stock this week. I'm ready to pull the trigger.


----------



## soth7676

Damn will be driving from work home when they lift the NDA...oh well will make for good reading when I get home then

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## xd_1771

12AM Central is 10PM Pacific. Looks like I'll be here for it








That would be the evening before, am I correct? Tomorrow at 10PM looks like.


----------



## Bloodcore

7am for me.








I guess I'll have to set my alarm.


----------



## Blackops_2

I wish it was tonight, i don't have class tomorrow







i imagine a couple more leaks will pop up between now and then though. Will be interesting to see if any leaks come that are different then what we've already seen.


----------



## Obakemono

Isn't it patch Tuesday tomorrow for Microsoft? Maybe something turns up there?


----------



## black96ws6

We should take bets on which site will post the benches first...Anand? Tom's? Etc...

Does everyone think Anand's will probably be the best review? Or?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


If you look at Anandtech's previous reviews of major new CPUs, *they have a history of posting right after midnight on the day NDA is lifted:*

Core 2 Duo: 7/14/2006 12:00:00 AM 
Nehalem: 11/3/2008 12:00:00 AM 
Phenom II: 1/8/2009 12:00:00 AM 
Sandy Bridge: 1/3/2011 12:01:00 AM


You're a member over at Anandtech right? Ask them when the damn thing is coming out









Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


We should take bets on which site will post the benches first...Anand? Tom's? Etc...

Does everyone think Anand's will probably be the best review? Or?


Toms hardware?









1. Anandtech
2. Techpowerup

Only two reviews you should care about


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


We should take bets on which site will post the benches first...Anand? Tom's? Etc...

Does everyone think Anand's will probably be the best review? Or?


Bets are frowned upon here, unless we bet in cans of soda...........


----------



## 0x62 0x70

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Or....(call me crazy here)....

We could compare AMD CPU's to AMD CPU's (FX to Phenom II). That way we're comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges (comparing to Intel).

Intel is going to excel at certain things, while AMD is going to excel in others. It's ALWAYS been like that. It's kind of silly comparing the two together in all of these benchmarks. All you can really tell is what benchmarks favor what platform.


This is true. What many don't realize is that benchmarks in general doesn't really say much unless it's standardized and only measures the processor and not other things such as compiler optimizations, etc. There's even things like instruction flags that take advantage of particular benchmarking tools. That's why theres benchmarking tools such as http://www.spec.org/benchmarks.html that try to measure pure processor performance.

Benchmarks become invalid over-time. Compiler techniques (even basic things such as loop unrolling and elaborate scheduling techniques) make processors "look faster" when in reality the compiler performance is being measured, not processor performance.

Not only does hardware architecture evolve over-time but also the software techniques in dealing with the architecture (better instruction-level parallelism for example).


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

i vote that the mods go to every site and post all of them for us..... make easier for us.
results are going to vary slightly between boards and memory used. either way i am going sabertooth, 8120, 6870 g skill 1333 a 500 gig seagate XFX psu 650 inwin dragon case 
mines ready to fly just need the brain to put in the hole.


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloodcore*


7am for me.








I guess I'll have to set my alarm.


it's not 6 am for our (gmt+1)?


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberato87*


it's not 6 am for our (gmt+1)?


"Things got moved back by a bit and now the date to watch out for is October 12, 6 PM Central European time. If you are based in the UK or Portugal the announcement comes at 5.00 PM."

http://fudzilla.com/processors/item/...er-12-1800-cet


----------



## linkin93

I need to scrounge some cash together and get ready to order an 8120 when they become available here


----------



## SSJVegeta

I hope the reviews are released at midnight US time.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


i vote that the mods go to every site and post all of them for us..... make easier for us.
results are going to vary slightly between boards and memory used. either way i am going sabertooth, 8120, 6870 g skill 1333 a 500 gig seagate XFX psu 650 inwin dragon case 
mines ready to fly just need the brain to put in the hole.


I vote not.









Trust me, we've got our work cut out for us already, just here at home.


----------



## black96ws6

It will be interesting to see the official BD reviews for sure.

There seems to be about a -300Mhz performance differential versus Thuban.

For example, the leaked 3.6Ghz FX-8150 scored about the same as a 3.3Ghz 1100T on Cinebench 11.5.

And in our testing of the 3.1Ghz FX-8120, it scored about the same as a 2.8Ghz 1055T.

Not horrible, however it isn't that great if you consider these things are supposed to be 8 cores, not 6. They seem to be comparable to existing 6 core Thubans.


----------



## catharsis

I'm waiting on benches from trusted sources. There might be a reason the press kit shipped with a certain motherboard and everything. Could be a secret bios update on it. Who knows? Lately AMD has been very secretive and tries their hardest to stop leaks from getting out. I don't care either way. I'd love to go with an AMD chip, but if i5 2000k is superior I don't see the point in buying a chip on blind fanboyism.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I vote not.









Trust me, we've got our work cut out for us already, just here at home.










can't say i didn't try
spoil sport...oh well guess i will be surfing as usual
any body got a surf board i can borrow?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


I'm waiting on benches from trusted sources. There might be a reason the press kit shipped with a certain motherboard and everything. Could be a secret bios update on it. Who knows? Lately AMD has been very secretive and tries their hardest to stop leaks from getting out. I don't care either way. I'd love to go with an AMD chip, but if i5 2000k is superior I don't see the point in buying a chip on blind fanboyism.


Same here.









I'm honestly really hoping for a great chip to come out.







Would be nice to put together AMD CPU / AMD GPU builds for my TV's. I might even still do it with a FM1 APU setup, but I'm just afraid it won't be enough for gaming at 1080p / 120Hz (CPU or GPU) on my big screen.


----------



## Castaa

Sounds like this CPU, at least in these configurations are going to be quite disappointing. Thus the reason why AMD has avoided leaking samples for with benchmarks. Maybe the architecture will scale to much higher performance in the future. Other AMD is going to be a lot of trouble, if they weren't already.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Thread re opened now that I can sit here and babysit.










ROFL


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Same here.









I'm honestly really hoping for a great chip to come out.







Would be nice to put together AMD CPU / AMD GPU builds for my TV's. I might even still do it with a FM1 APU setup, but I'm just afraid it won't be enough for gaming at 1080p / 120Hz (CPU or GPU) on my big screen.










What games? I played black ops, l4d2, portal 2 etc on high @ 1080p







Battlefield obviously kicked it up the rear.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


What games? I played black ops, l4d2, portal 2 etc on high @ 1080p







Battlefield obviously kicked it up the rear.


Games that I can use my 360 controller with. So mostly racing games like GRiD, DiRT2, DiRT3, and GRiD2 when it comes out.

I might do a keyboard and mouse too for FPS games, and if that's the case....it'd be any and all games, lol.

I'm waiting just like the rest of you for Bulldozer to come out.







Because I miss having an AMD rig, so I'd like to use an AMD / AMD build for the TV's. I'm thinking either an APU with a 6970 for the big screen, and just an APU for the bedroom, or Bulldozer (8150) with a 6450 for bedroom, and a 6970 on the big screen.

My plans aren't finished yet though, it depends on how things perform once they're released. I don't have the money for the builds yet anyway.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Tuesday night can't come any sooner.









Can't wait for _official_ reviews.


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


NDA lifted 12 AM Wednesday. The first official reviews should be out sometime after that.

If you go look at Anandtech's Sandy Bridge review...it was posted at *12:01:00 AM *


is this official for BD this wednesday

and rep to someone that puts a link to latest 'leaked' benches, I can't 40 pages of BD blog


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Games that I can use my 360 controller with. So mostly racing games like GRiD, DiRT2, DiRT3, and GRiD2 when it comes out.

I might do a keyboard and mouse too for FPS games, and if that's the case....it'd be any and all games, lol.

I'm waiting just like the rest of you for Bulldozer to come out.







Because I miss having an AMD rig, so I'd like to use an AMD / AMD build for the TV's. I'm thinking either an APU with a 6970 for the big screen, and just an APU for the bedroom, or Bulldozer (8150) with a 6450 for bedroom, and a 6970 on the big screen.

My plans aren't finished yet though, it depends on how things perform once they're released. I don't have the money for the builds yet anyway.










I've been using the same case since i built my first PC admittedly i'm not that old so it's not like it's been forever. But my first rig before i knew how to build computers was a A64 3200, afterwards i built an opty1210 build and oced it. I'm a price/performance guy i enjoy both brands but i always have my AMD stickers right up there with intel, which reminds me of what brand i started on. I do want AMD to be competitive. As both you and XD have said as well as many others, i'm waiting till wednesday


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


It will be interesting to see the official BD reviews for sure.

There seems to be about a -300Mhz performance differential versus Thuban.

For example, the leaked 3.6Ghz FX-8150 scored about the same as a 3.3Ghz 1100T on Cinebench 11.5.

And in our testing of the 3.1Ghz FX-8120, it scored about the same as a 2.8Ghz 1055T.

Not horrible, however it isn't that great if you consider these things are supposed to be 8 cores, not 6. They seem to be comparable to existing 6 core Thubans.


as lots say, it wouldn't make any sense that BD is just die shrink of pII

otherwise what has AMD done for last 5 years, played video games and got stoned


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


It will be interesting to see the official BD reviews for sure.

There seems to be about a -300Mhz performance differential versus Thuban.

For example, the leaked 3.6Ghz FX-8150 scored about the same as a 3.3Ghz 1100T on Cinebench 11.5.

And in our testing of the 3.1Ghz FX-8120, it scored about the same as a 2.8Ghz 1055T.

Not horrible, however it isn't that great if you consider these things are supposed to be 8 cores, not 6. They seem to be comparable to existing 6 core Thubans.


So a 3.1Ghz 8 Core is the same as a 2.8Ghz 6 core? That's pretty much equates to an intel i5 760 being faster than the 8120. Gaming wise anyway.

I owned an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ since March 05 until Jan 11 and it served me well. I used to like AMD. But these days they just suck. Performance wise anyway.

If all these benches turn out to be true, this Wednesday, Lulz shall be had.


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


So a 3.1Ghz 8 Core is the same as a 2.8Ghz 6 core? That's pretty much equates to an intel i5 760 being faster than the 8120. Gaming wise anyway.

I owned an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ since March 05 until Jan 11 and it served me well. I used to like AMD. But these days they just suck. Performance wise anyway.

If all these benches turn out to be true, this Wednesday, Lulz shall be had.


Thats the only thing that is confusing to me......
Why would Amd keep this under raps so tightly and it suck so bad?
Why spend 5 years on this arch. and it suck?
It makes no sense whatsoever. There has to be a catch. They must have crippled it thats the only logical explanation. I mean why bring a arch that sucks SOOOOO bad when you could shrink the phenom 2 arch and pump up the north bridge and have another price/performance winner?
I mean if it just sucked in some areas then I would understand, but all areas come on im dumb but gosh.....
So please explain this to me , does this make good business sense?
This isnt even a good server performer.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


as lots say, it wouldn't make any sense that BD is just die shrink of pII

otherwise what has AMD done for last 5 years, played video games and got stoned


Die shrink of P2 + 2 cores wouldn't have the clock speed capabilities bulldozer does, and other problems posed as well. Chew* has gone into details with this, which in turn is info directly from AMD engineers. Just as it is actually a 4c/8t part.

For AMD, in a world of more cores = better(especially in server, as well as marketing







), BD was the only way.

P2 was the most they could do with that architecture, and in modern times AMD just can't afford to compete with Intel on a core to core basis nor IPC with a brand new architecture in this multi core era.

My point is that they didnt sit on their butt and smoke pot all day and play games. They've engineered something never thought of before, and an excellent idea. How how well their execution was won't be known until Wednesday(hopefully). Even if they haven't surpassed IPC of PH2(purely speculation, but looking probably), it's still a big step forward in CPUs. Especially AMD's future. I for one am not too concerned with power consumption, so i hope for future BD processors to bring huge overclockability. That will keep AMD in the enthusiast market.

2c


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *konspiracy*


Thats the only thing that is confusing to me......
Why would Amd keep this under raps so tightly and it suck so bad?
Why spend 5 years on this arch. and it suck?
It makes no sense whatsoever. There has to be a catch. They must have crippled it thats the only logical explanation. I mean why bring a arch that sucks SOOOOO bad when you could shrink the phenom 2 arch and pump up the north bridge and have another price/performance winner?
I mean if it just sucked in some areas then I would understand, but all areas come on im dumb but gosh.....
So please explain this to me , does this make good business sense?
This isnt even a good server performer.


They did not cripple it intentionally. The architecture is something that is so new it is bound to run into optimization problems. Once these optimizations are in effect there should be some improvement in performance. But I don't think it is going to be the monster everyone was hoping for (me included).


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


well i ain't staying up late but if I don't see a cpuz shot that says ZAMBEZI, ZAMBEZI FX I am not going to believe it. AMD has Never released chips with code name of architecture always the release(SERIES) name.


Perhaps the engineers named it Bulldozer?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Die shrink of P2 + 2 cores wouldn't have the clock speed capabilities bulldozer does, and other problems posed as well. Chew* has gone into details with this, which in turn is info directly from AMD engineers. Just as it is actually a 4c/8t part.

For AMD, in a world of more cores = better(especially in server, as well as marketing







), BD was the only way.

P2 was the most they could do with that architecture, and in modern times AMD just can't afford to compete with Intel on a core to core basis nor IPC with a brand new architecture in this multi core era.

My point is that they didnt sit on their butt and smoke pot all day and play games. They've engineered something never thought of before, and an excellent idea. How how well their execution was won't be known until Wednesday(hopefully). Even if they haven't surpassed IPC of PH2(purely speculation, but looking probably), it's still a big step forward in CPUs. Especially AMD's future. I for one am not too concerned with power consumption, so i hope for future BD processors to bring huge overclockability. That will keep AMD in the enthusiast market.

2c



Agner has stated many time, and people act obtuse or they don't understand. IPC is part of the program just as much as it is part of the hardware.


----------



## macca_dj

This whole thing reminds me of the CELL that Sony and IBM manufactured for the PS3,
Granted even to this day they still have not fully optimized its potential (apparently)

So I take my hat off to AMD for bringing a new Architecture to the table,

Things have been stagnant in the processor world for some time,

So if this Architecture does not meat peoples expectations 100% (which it never will) then Amd will research and do more development untill it has been refined.

2c


----------



## konspiracy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phantom123*


They did not cripple it intentionally. The architecture is something that is so new it is bound to run into optimization problems. Once these optimizations are in effect there should be some improvement in performance. But I don't think it is going to be the monster everyone was hoping for (me included).


Well there is the optimization part. What explains the 5 years of R&D though. They couldnt have optimized it enough to at least beat there current last gen offerings? I mean your saying that doesnt smell a little fishy?


----------



## linkin93

You can't do everything in research and development. Sometimes things need to go into the real world to uncover issues or problems.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

I don't know why you guys keep going back to those crap numbers......
it's an ES or faked numbers the cpuz shot says everything...."bulldozer" is not the name of the chip it's "ZAMBEZI"
bulldozer is the architectural name and i have never seen a retail chip from AMD use architecture for code name... it's always been release/series/generation/market name.
your not going to see real numbers untill you see "zambezi" "zambezi FX"as the code name.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *konspiracy*


Well there is the optimization part. What explains the 5 years of R&D though. They couldnt have optimized it enough to at least beat there current last gen offerings? I mean your saying that doesnt smell a little fishy?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


You can't do everything in research and development. Sometimes things need to go into the real world to uncover issues or problems.


and things sometimes go wrong,and AMD had double the things that could wrong by doing a new innovative uarch and a die shrink in one step add the new gate first approach,might look good on paper,but its risky,risky and i think we just might be seeing the results of whatever problems they encountered and couldnt quite fix 100% before they had release it, if what we have been hearing turns out to be true









this is pure speculation on my part so dont jump all over me









Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


I don't know why you guys keep going back to those crap numbers......
it's an ES or faked numbers the cpuz shot says everything...."bulldozer" is not the name of the chip it's "ZAMBEZI"
bulldozer is the architectural name and i have never seen a retail chip from AMD use architecture for code name... it's always been release/series/generation/market name.
your not going to see real numbers untill you see "zambezi" "zambezi FX"as the code name.



i messaged a couple of the cpu-z guys about this and im waiting for their answer,this was brought up earlier this year at XS's and no one knew why,plus only ES's were out in the wild at the time.i think franck the maker of cpu-z maybe overlooked it in his rush to get the new 1.58.7 out in time for the CPUID reviewer kit?we will see,but a very good catch on your part JUGGERNAUTXTR


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


I don't know why you guys keep going back to those crap numbers......
it's an ES or faked numbers the cpuz shot says everything...."bulldozer" is not the name of the chip it's "ZAMBEZI"
bulldozer is the architectural name and i have never seen a retail chip from AMD use architecture for code name... it's always been release/series/generation/market name.
your not going to see real numbers untill you see "zambezi" "zambezi FX"as the code name.


I'm afraid you're wrong on that one mate. Cpu-z reads it as bulldozer.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


I don't know why you guys keep going back to those crap numbers......
it's an ES or faked numbers the cpuz shot says everything...."bulldozer" is not the name of the chip it's "ZAMBEZI"
bulldozer is the architectural name and i have never seen a retail chip from AMD use architecture for code name... it's always been release/series/generation/market name.
your not going to see real numbers untill you see "zambezi" "zambezi FX"as the code name.


Yeah we know you just said that,but it appears to be named Bulldozer,even CPU-Z says so.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *konspiracy*


Well there is the optimization part. What explains the 5 years of R&D though. They couldnt have optimized it enough to at least beat there current last gen offerings? I mean your saying that doesnt smell a little fishy?


Yeah,you think with 5 years AMD would have done something to at least make it better than a Phenom II,even a Athlon II beats BD right now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


I'm afraid you're wrong on that one mate. Cpu-z reads it as bulldozer.


I dunno but he may be on to something,did Phenom II have any code names before it was released?


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


You're a member over at Anandtech right? Ask them when the damn thing is coming out









Toms hardware?









1. Anandtech
2. Techpowerup

Only two reviews you should care about


Dunno about Anandtech being #1, they have gone downhill in recent reviews, and they tend to dance around issues if they are dealing with a site sponsor of hardware, like OCZ. I would rate them average.

As for Tom's hardware you are pretty much correct.
The best feedback/review is from people who actually bought the CPU, and want to share what they found out.


----------



## FLCLimax

anyone know if Anand ever did a part 2 to their tri sli/tri-fire reveiw(where they promised to use multi monitor testing)????????


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

Heavy MG said:


> Yeah we know you just said that,but it appears to be named Bulldozer,even CPU-Z says so.
> 
> this could be a way for amd to know if someone is breaking NDA, if it is being called bulldozer fine, but i highly doubt after yrs of using chip generation name that they gonna change that now.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Agner has stated many time, and people act obtuse or they don't understand. IPC is part of the program just as much as it is part of the hardware.


Only from you...


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


I dunno but he may be on to something,did Phenom II have any code names before it was released?


found an old denab ES cpu-z and it has codename correctly as denab


----------



## el gappo

1.6 for 4ghz what!


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


1.6 for 4ghz what!










Hey now don't make me feel bad









My C3 wants 1.54


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Only from you...

















Yes, You can actually write programs that have IPC below what the hardware is capable of.

its true.

do some research.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Yes, You can actually write programs that have IPC below what the hardware is capable of.

its true.

do some research.


No one is refuting that. But you're suggesting that basically all programs are just Intel biased. Maybe your jealous? Maybe not. Maybe just delusional, but Intel has faster CPUs. Core for core and clock for clock.

In no a way diss to AMD either, i like AMD and am a proud owner, i also however am not a fanboy or delusional because of some emotional attachment.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


No one is refuting that. But you're suggesting that basically all programs are just Intel biased. Maybe your jealous? Maybe not. Maybe just delusional, but Intel has faster CPUs. Core for core and clock for clock.

In no a way diss to AMD either, i like AMD and am a proud owner, i also however am not a fanboy or delusional because of some emotional attachment.


 thats not what I said now is it. Lets say you write a program with a IPC of 1 but the hardware is capable of 4, thats under utilizing resources. Now lets say you have a program like a benchmark capable of 4 ipc "though typically ipc for programs is around 1.8 with exceptions noted" and then you build a cpu around your benchmark model. You have over provisined your IPC, though a high clockrate would have been more useful.

That will net you some odd instances where benchs may not be indicative of real world useage scenarios.

So everything is salt, though DSP loads encoding etc, all tend to have higher IPC needs vrs MS word.

so its all a balance of where you build the chip to be used. In the future as programming models get better, IPC will have to go up and everyone will have to make wide pipelines to raise IPC, as it stands for allot of end user software and server workloads, IPC of 2 seems to be the sweet spot.

at least that according to anger, looking at a bunch of linux code, I think that the assumption of a ipc demand of 1.8-2.2 would be typical. Its hard to say what closed source software will need.

So raising clocks helps more then increasing IPC. Intel knows this and much of the performance of sandybridge is as much ipc as it is turbo core bumping clock speed to execute instructions faster.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

When will benches be released?


----------



## StraightSixZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


When will benches be released?


Where have you been?

12 noon central time US wednesday october 12th, 2011


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


When will benches be released?


Probably Wednesday at 12:01 AM


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


When will benches be released?


When the nda is pulled.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StraightSixZ*


Where have you been?

12 pm central time US wednesday october 12th, 2011


Under my rock called work. But that doesn't matter for the next 10 days. Holidays ftw.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Probably Wednesday at 12:01 AM


Looking forward to this being the DATE !!, then all the controversy of the performance metric can faithfully be debated !


----------



## macca_dj

Just doing some googling here in the UK to see if we have any hints of a release date and prices,

And stumbled upon this @ Overclockers.uk

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produc...d=6&subid=1942

Not very interesting I know but its a sign that the gossip and mud are getting shifted,


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


Just doing some googling here in the UK to see if we have any hints of a release date and prices,

And stumbled upon this @ Overclockers.uk

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produc...d=6&subid=1942

Not very interesting I know but its a sign that the gossip and mud are getting shifted,


Sorry, but no products are currently available within this category.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Looking forward to this being the DATE !!, then all the controversy of the performance metric can faithfully be *debated* !


Debated? Once official benchmarks are out there will be no need to question the validity of benchmarks anymore...


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StraightSixZ*


Where have you been?

12 noon central time US wednesday october 12th, 2011


Noon? More like Midnight!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Debated? Once official benchmarks are out there will be no need to question the validity of benchmarks anymore...


I think the debate over the data will rage for a while.

But I expect that.

We shall see.

I also expect to see substantial differences in optimized code and in Linux based benchmarks, but thats just par for the course. I think its going to be a few months before the real performance of the chip is actually known. I think things are going to be weird, but thats like all new uarchs and IIRC even SB was problematic at first with bench results while the software caught up.


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *996gt2*


Debated? Once official benchmarks are out there will be no need to question the validity of benchmarks anymore...


Somehow, I don't think that will be the case.
People will always find something to argue about...


----------



## knunez

the date OCT 12 is confirmed right?


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knunez*


the date OCT 12 is confirmed right?


Yes


----------



## knunez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Yes


ok thx, this 3 day wait is killing me, can't wait until 12 am on wednesday we'll finally see some official benches


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

JFAMD wrote:http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11076 ... h-faq.html
To get actual performance, you need:

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

exactly! who has it probaly no one that hasn't signed NDA


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Yes


Confirmed by who?
All AMD has said (as far as I know) is "next week". 
The 12th does make much sense, though.


----------



## Canis-X

Do we really need to debate absolutely everything.....we all know that it is the 12th already.


----------



## Genome852

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Do we really need to debate absolutely everything.....we all know that it is the 12th already.










...and then it turns out not to be the 12th. >_> <_<

Eagerly awaiting benchmarks.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


JFAMD wrote:http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11076 ... h-faq.html
To get actual performance, you need:

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

exactly! who has it probaly no one that hasn't signed NDA


What someone never signed that NDA in the first place, or if that NDA is broken?


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Do we really need to debate absolutely everything.....we all know that it is the 12th already.










I really hope so.


----------



## mrcool63

wait.. is.. excruciating.. got.. to.. have.. a.. BD...

I think this BD thread is the biggest collection of spam in OCN


----------



## Usario

Is anyone besides DH and OBR claiming October 12 to be the release date? If not, then don't get your hopes up.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mrcool63*


wait.. is.. excruciating.. got.. to.. have.. a.. BD...

I think this BD thread is the biggest collection of spam in OCN


It's better to have it ALL in here though, rather than spread out throughout the entire AMD sub forums.









And guys, ENOUGH with the personal attacks on each other. We can very easily close this thread down until launch if that's what we need to do. Then you would have NOWHERE to go and post about Bulldozer, unless there's direct new news about it (for the news section).


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Is anyone besides DH and OBR claiming October 12 to be the release date? If not, then don't get your hopes up.


During the live LN2 on their live stream, AMD said it's being released next week. There are screenshots here somewhere.

( I'm not joking )


----------



## Tweeky

Remember this
Only 2 more days till the next bulldozer delay


----------



## Seronx

Thank goodness nothing happened while I was at my Cisco class yeesh

So, we are back to arguing October 12th is the NDA lift particularly October 11th 11:59pm - October 12th 12:01am?


----------



## knunez

well if it's not the 12th, its this week so we should all relax and drink a beer


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


It's better to have it ALL in here though, rather than spread out throughout the entire AMD sub forums.










I have to agree, I'm following the BD saga on a couple of forums. Nice having all of the posts in one spot.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


During the live LN2 on their live stream, AMD said it's being released next week. There are screenshots here somewhere.

( I'm not joking )



















The world must be ending tomorrow...

Anyway,







. One more day to see if I wasted a year waiting for a piece of crap or if I waited a year for what I actually expected to get four months ago (I feel an urge to write the latter part of this sentence in all caps).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Remember this
Only 2 more days till the next bulldozer delay


----------



## kahboom

Quote:



JFAMD wrote:http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11076 ... h-faq.html
To get actual performance, you need:

Final production silicon
Final processor microcode
Final system BIOS
Final OS optimizaitons
Final drivers
An app compiled with the latest flags
A person who understands the app and configures the test properly

exactly! who has it probably no one that hasn't signed NDA


New drivers for the new architecture would make a lot of difference, would that be in the new amd chipset drivers or a separate download?


----------



## OverShocked

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Remember this
Only 2 more days till the next bulldozer delay



















Hopefully this isn't true...


----------



## willistech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;15255898*
> Remember this
> Only 2 more days till the next bulldozer delay


how can it be a delay if AMD never announced it? lmao. this thread is comedy.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willistech;15256164*
> how can it be a delay if AMD never announced it? lmao. this thread is comedy.


People who continually make this point are comical.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15256190*
> People who continually make this point are comical.


You're comical


----------



## Kazumi

If someone secures 2 be sure to sell me one..haha It's gonna take a act of ___ to get one in Japan if newegg, tigerdirect, or amazon aint selling them..haha


----------



## Cyclonic

In what timezone does the NDA drop ? Cause its the 12th in australia soon


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15255857*
> During the live LN2 on their live stream, AMD said it's being released next week. There are screenshots here somewhere.
> 
> ( I'm not joking )


Uh oh. This surely won't please the AMD fans much. I wonder if this is for the reviews and given them an extra week with new BIOS's/Drivers.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kahboom;15256093*
> New drivers for the new architecture would make a lot of difference, would that be in the new amd chipset drivers or a separate download?


It might be combination of chipset drivers,BIOS,and OS drivers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15256190*
> People who continually make this point are comical.


Did AMD ever officially announce a BD release date?


----------



## sequoia464

Not sure if you're serious or not, but that screen was taken from last Saturdays event, so "next week" is here.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sequoia464;15256487*
> Not sure if you're serious or not, but that screen was taken from last Saturdays event, so "next week" is here.


No,this week as in Wednesday,October 12th.
The AMD rep said it somewhere in the stream chat,I hope someone has a screenshot.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15256508*
> No,next week as in Wednesday,October 12th.
> The AMD rep said it somewhere in the stream chat,I hope someone has a screenshot.


. 8 hours left in Sydney


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15256484*
> It might be combination of chipset drivers,BIOS,and OS drivers.
> 
> Did AMD ever officially announce a BD release date?


How could they, when they themselves haven't know all year?

Launch at launch.









You know what they've done, arguing about it is pointless.

If you need memory refresher:

AMD said it was launching Q2.
Did they? No.

June 1st they said 60 - 90 Days.
Did they meet the deadline? No.

After they missed the last deadline, they now said Q4.

You're right though, Bulldozer hasn't been delayed, and it's right on schedule.


----------



## NateN34

October 12th is when iOS5 comes out.









Maybe they getting it messed up with that?


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15256595*
> How could they, when they themselves haven't know all year?
> 
> *Got insider info do you?*
> 
> Launch at launch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Better than giving a date and missing it due to it not being ready.*
> 
> You know what they've done, arguing about it is pointless.
> 
> *What have they done, exactly? As far as I know they never gave a date for client products launching*
> 
> If you need memory refresher:
> 
> AMD said it was launching Q2.
> Did they? No.
> 
> *That was for Interlagos, which slipped to Q3 (September 7th)*
> 
> June 1st they said 60 - 90 Days.
> Did they meet the deadline? No.
> 
> *For Interlagos.*
> 
> After they missed the last deadline, they now said Q4.
> 
> *Launch on launch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> You're right though, Bulldozer hasn't been delayed, and it's right on schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Most recent data pegs tomorrow as the date for retail availability.*


Are you finished trolling and riling people up yet?


----------



## Nocturin

Speculation:

Server today the 11th, Zambezi tomorrow the 12th. Seems about right. I remember someone saying somewhere that server will launch before client.

I want a nice pretty picture of Interlagos







.


----------



## kahboom

Still getting it regardless, either it will be great or ill overclock it till it catches fire, then put it out and do it again:devil:


----------



## Kazumi

Haha I'm right with ya Kahboom. I've had my mind set on BD for a long time. And I've invested to much in Mobo, memory, coolers, GPU's...all that remains is the BD chip! So I'm getting it if I gotta trade my first born (anyone want a kid in a few years?)


----------



## raisethe3

With the motherboard you're using now? Uh...Bulldozer only supports DDR3. Don't see how this is possible, unless you're talking about an entire new build you bought.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi;15256817*
> Haha I'm right with ya Kahboom. I've had my mind set on BD for a long time. And I've invested to much in Mobo, memory, coolers, GPU's...all that remains is the BD chip! So I'm getting it if I gotta trade my first born (anyone want a kid in a few years?)


----------



## knunez

anybody else hearing that the bulldozer processors might come with a water cooling kit?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-FX-Series-Water-Cooler-Gets-Pictured-226572.shtml I hope so!!!


----------



## pman26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *konspiracy;15253857*
> It makes no sense whatsoever. There has to be a catch. They must have crippled it thats the only logical explanation.


doodoo happens. That's the only logical explanation


----------



## rockosmodlife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15257164*
> anybody else hearing that the bulldozer processors might come with a water cooling kit?
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-FX-Series-Water-Cooler-Gets-Pictured-226572.shtml I hope so!!!


Yes, but no, I just want the chip.


----------



## knunez

That's a great price for the 4 core, btw anyone know when the 4 core BD is coming out


----------



## 66racer

Few more hours! Hope I wake up tomorrow with tech blogs anouncing the release, im sure we will see benchmarks same day too!


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Remember, any information protected under the NDA is _*not*_ to be posted.

Keep it clean and keep it civil.


----------



## Canis-X

WOOOHOOOOO!!! first post!!


----------



## conzilla

There was on before you. It got deleted for posting stuff under nda. lol


----------



## flashtest

Can you link the NDA so we don't post something that's not correct.
oh btw 14


----------



## black96ws6

I guess we'll have to wait until tonight to see the official results match what's already been shown


----------



## SSJVegeta

So results will be coming @ 12:00AM EST?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Can you link the NDA so we don't post something that's not correct.
oh btw 14


It's basically anything the moderators decide you can't post, you aren't legally bound by an NDA nor do they know what is not allowed under the NDA.


----------



## Nikkopo

What is it like, 11.5 hours left?


----------



## dafour

Just got the letter from the tax refund,looks like a new system for me








I can't wait till tomorrow


----------



## Cyclonic

Always USA timezone release.. All people in Australia/Azia and Europe/Africa have to wait. 4/5 of world population ah well same with console launch and games. Roll on another 11 hours, its 6am here then bah


----------



## 2010rig

My original statement.

*Linkin93 Reply*

*My reply*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


How could they, when they themselves haven't know all year?

*Got insider info do you?*

*Nope, I and many others have followed this launch closely all year. *

Launch at launch.

*Better than giving a date and missing it due to it not being ready.*

*You're right, they didn't give a date, they gave 90 day approximations, TWICE. *

You know what they've done, arguing about it is pointless.

*What have they done, exactly? As far as I know they never gave a date for client products launching*

*Actually, they did, first they said Q2, then they said 60 - 90 days on June 1st.*

If you need memory refresher:

AMD said it was launching Q2. 
Did they? No.

*That was for Interlagos, which slipped to Q3 (September 7th)*

*Actually, this was for Zambezi. *

Quote:



Product Schedules - This is the most asked question that I get. Today we gave granularity down to the quarter. *We expect to launch the client version of "Bulldozer" (code named "Zambezi") in Q2 2011.* The server products ("*Interlagos*" and "Valencia") will first begin *production *in Q2 2011, and we *expect to launch them in Q3 2011*.

http://blogs.amd.com/work/2010/11/09...l-analyst-day/


June 1st they said 60 - 90 Days. 
Did they meet the deadline? No.

*For Interlagos.*

Once again, Zambezi.










http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-C...w-203534.shtml

After they missed the last deadline, they now said Q4.

*Launch on launch.*

*I already said that, but you can't ignore the fact that they gave 2 previous launch estimates.*

You're right though, Bulldozer hasn't been delayed, and it's right on schedule.

*Most recent data pegs tomorrow as the date for retail availability.

Are you finished trolling and riling people up yet?*


Am I trolling by stating facts?

People wonder why I keep posting this, well, I wonder why people like yourself keep posting mis-information and calling people trolls in the process.

NDA hopefully lifts tonight, and we'll finally have some reviews.


----------



## Chico212

According to Fudzilla 
http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/i...er-12-1800-cet

"Things got moved back by a bit and now the date to watch out for is October 12, 6 PM Central European time. If you are based in the UK or Portugal the announcement comes at 5.00 PM.

The chaps on the US east coast will be able to read the first reviews at noon, while PST, California and the pacific side of United States will be able to see it first thing in the morning at 9 AM their time."


----------



## Flippy125

The Fry's in Las Vegas isn't expecting FX series for another two weeks. Was hoping to get it local

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


----------



## JE Nightmare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


The Fry's in Las Vegas isn't expecting FX series for another two weeks. Was hoping to get it local

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


Hate that fry's with a passion... the only store ever to decline my card yet still pull the money out of my account. refuse to go there now.


----------



## David164v8

So... Reviews will be out in a few hours? Woo hoo. I'll be in bed though ;(


----------



## David164v8

So when do reviews come out in the UK? I'm on my phone and googling timezones would be slow.


----------



## flashtest

So, who will go for a bulldozer to tweak it and play with it
even IF it scores bellow 2500K and uses 2//W when clocked over 4.6GHz ?
What about IF its Instructions Per Cycle singlethreted is bellow Phenom II - would you still play with it?

I for one will at the x-mass vacation - love to explore new hardware (and am even lucky this to be part of my work).

Note: Don't flame me on the IF's it's not a statement nor a "i told you it sucks haha hahah" it's just the worst case scenario 
- I just want to see who is real enthusiastic about the new hardware.


----------



## Allen86

So are the bulldozers coming out today? I'm confused


----------



## kahboom

I am still getting it and getting the fx 8170 when that comes out too.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


I am still getting it and getting the fx 8170 when that comes out too.


And i'm getting the 4170 from MC when its available. Should be fun to play with till SB-E drops.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


So, who will go for a bulldozer to tweak it and play with it
even IF it scores bellow 2500K and uses 2//W when clocked over 4.6GHz ?
What about IF its Instructions Per Cycle singlethreted is bellow Phenom II - would you still play with it?

I for one will at the x-mass vacation - love to explore new hardware (and am even lucky this to be part of my work).

Note: Don't flame me on the IF's it's not a statement nor a "i told you it sucks haha hahah" it's just the worst case scenario 
- I just want to see who is real enthusiastic about the new hardware.


i will too,most likely the FX-4170.but if i come into extra money then a FX-8150 it is








and after that i will sell and grab a SB-E setup to try it out,like you i love playing with new hardware


----------



## kahboom

Sounds like you have alot of mixed answers and quotes mostly just hating on the BD the last couple of days, we will find out tonight hopefully so you can eat or spit out your words


----------



## Allen86

So are these coming out soon?


----------



## kzone75

Kids. Could we please stop arguing? I mean, seriously.. It makes me sad.


----------



## Chuckclc

When was the last relevant page of this thread? I want to know if there is anymore useful info, but no way am I going back through pages of childish bicker to find it.


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JE Nightmare*


Hate that fry's with a passion... the only store ever to decline my card yet still pull the money out of my account. refuse to go there now.


Yeah, my friend caused them to get online price matching. He got kicked out for telling people to buy Newegg because its cheaper XD

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


----------



## JE Nightmare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


Yeah, my friend caused them to get online price matching. He got kicked out for telling people to buy Newegg because its cheaper XD

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


when they refused to give me what i was attempting to buy with proof they just took my money, i walked out saying the same thing lol. i'd sooner pay shipping and wait then drive down there for anything.


----------



## proximo

I think they're closing every thread that brings up the unofficial benchmark results because every one of them has become a flame war eventually between Intel and AMD fanboys.


----------



## gurusan

just wait til the official benchmarks come out. Doubt the flame wars have even begun! lol


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


When was the last relevant page of this thread? I want to know if there is anymore useful info, but no way am I going back through pages of childish bicker to find it.


I can answer that one Here

http://www.overclock.net/10213459-post1.html


----------



## nukedukem86

So if supposedly the 8150 is out tomorrow won't it probably be competing with the 2500k? I would imagine Amd saving the 8170 for competing with the 2600k.

Or am I completely wrong, and is Amd saving the 8170 for the 2700k?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nukedukem86*


So if supposedly the 8150 is out tomorrow won't it probably be competing with the 2500k? I would imagine Amd saving the 8170 for competing with the 2600k.

Or am I completely wrong, and is Amd saving the 8170 for the 2700k?










The 8170 will just be a slightly higher clocked 8150. Kinda like the 1100T and the 1090T.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chuckclc*


When was the last relevant page of this thread? I want to know if there is anymore useful info, but no way am I going back through pages of childish bicker to find it.


Don't know about useful, but it's info. Look for one of my posts /\\ there.


----------



## conzilla

So many mixed reviews. Waiting is a good idea.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


The page won't load for me :/


DNS restriction @ work?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *conzilla*


So many mixed reviews. Waiting is a good idea.


/\\ this


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*


It loaded for me about 10 minutes ago. Showed the 8150 between 2500 and 2600 and OC'd up to par with the 2600. Of course we have no idea if its legit or not but its interesting to see this kind of benchmark compared to all the Bulldozer is suxor benchmarks.


It appears as if the benchmarks shown were meant to showcase areas in which BD actually did compete with SB, at the end of the post the benchmarker states that overall performance is not that impressive.


----------



## hednik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


just wait til the official benchmarks come out. Doubt the flame wars have even begun! lol


This ^

Things have not even started to mix up yet. And if they are almost neck and neck with Intel it will be worse because so many factor will go into the arguments.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

OK to clarify why the last lot of posts were deleted they were either the first post linking to XS or that other site with benches or replies to those posts or replies to replies.
Other sites can do what they want but we are respecting the NDA and will *NOT* tolerate any linking to benches until AMD lifts the NDA.
I seem to remember the same deal was in place with fermi so please respect the NDA and do not post benches or link to benches until it is lifted, when that will be I don't know but I'm sure when it is we will all know


----------



## matt1898

My thoughts.


----------



## Flippy125

I'm going to lol if it gets delayed again. Hopefully this doesn't turn into the Duke Nukem Forever of processors. Delay after delay for a disappointment. I still have hope for Bulldozer. AMD has been good with price/performance ratio before

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


----------



## Da1Nonly

First all the BF3 extra threads were being shot down. Now all the leaks are being removed. OCN really loves their visitors and members....


----------



## psyside

So guys, please..when are the reviews coming? tonight after midnight?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *psyside*


So guys, please..when are the reviews coming? tonight after midnight?


Sometime somewhere, somehow- can't discuss it because it's under NDA, not that I know what's contained in the NDA.


----------



## JE Nightmare

it's really not that hard to follow what the mods say, it's really not.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*


OK to clarify why the last lot of posts were deleted they were either the first post linking to XS or that other site with benches or replies to those posts or replies to replies.
Other sites can do what they want but we are respecting the NDA and will *NOT* tolerate any linking to benches until AMD lifts the NDA.
I seem to remember the same deal was in place with fermi so please respect the NDA and do not post benches or link to benches until it is lifted,* when that will be I don't know but I'm sure when it is we will all know*


Hopefully that will be in exactly 9 hours and 35 minutes


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*


OK to clarify why the last lot of posts were deleted they were either the first post linking to XS or that other site with benches or replies to those posts or replies to replies.
Other sites can do what they want but we are respecting the NDA and will *NOT* tolerate any linking to benches until AMD lifts the NDA.
I seem to remember the same deal was in place with fermi so please respect the NDA and do not post benches or link to benches until it is lifted, when that will be I don't know but I'm sure when it is we will all know


How long have people been saying what you just said? MONTHS now.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*


OK to clarify why the last lot of posts were deleted they were either the first post linking to XS or that other site with benches or replies to those posts or replies to replies.
Other sites can do what they want but we are respecting the NDA and will *NOT* tolerate any linking to benches until AMD lifts the NDA.
I seem to remember the same deal was in place with fermi so please respect the NDA and do not post benches or link to benches until it is lifted, when that will be I don't know but I'm sure when it is we will all know


We understand and thats fine but you didn't answer the main question. It was fine to post benches up until today. Why is today different then the past year? If your taking crap from AMD just come out and tell us.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kolovrat*


just close this thread already.... Stop teasing people


+1


----------



## djxput

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nukedukem86*


So if supposedly the 8150 is out tomorrow won't it probably be competing with the 2500k? I would imagine Amd saving the 8170 for competing with the 2600k.

Or am I completely wrong, and is Amd saving the 8170 for the 2700k?










It was suggested (awhile back) that the 8170 wouldnt be out till next year; but again this was before sept.


----------



## Nikkopo

A couple of hours left!

Can't wait! This will be my decision, going BD or going IB!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


A couple of hours left!

Can't wait! This will be my decision, going BD or going IB!


I believe that Trinity will compete with IB, not zambezi.


----------



## JE Nightmare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


I believe that Trinity will compete with IB, not zambezi.


Trinity... the apu?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JE Nightmare*


Trinity... the apu?


Yup,

CPU + GPU vs. CPU + GPU









I think it's due q2 2012 or something based on some slides. I would find them and post them.... but....

I believe trinity will be using BD modules.


----------



## kzone75

http://www.youtube.com/user/AMDUnpro.../5/DV8rhuaxR5U I think this is relevant to this thread and I haven't seen it before. This is also my last post on here.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kzone75*


http://www.youtube.com/user/AMDUnpro.../5/DV8rhuaxR5U I think this is relevant to this thread and I haven't seen it before. This is also my last post on here.










That video makes it all sound so exciting haha. Not long to go now. I saw a few price leaks in NZD which looked promising and definitely within my budget for the 8150. Bring on the benchmarks!


----------



## radaja

does anyone know when nda lifts for pacific time zones?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


does anyone know when nda lifts for pacific time zones?


the thing about nda club, is that you don't talk about nda club.


----------



## Kyronn94

I'm getting excited








Even though I am a motherboard upgrade away from being Bulldozer ready









Weather you like it or not, Bulldozer will likely be a huge success in the OEM/Pre built system market.
'Normal' people will love the high base clock speeds and the multiple cores, 8 in the case of the 8150.

It's the Overclocking potential that us here on OCN should care about. Supposedly 4.5GHz 'easily' on air?
Who cares about stock benchmarks anyway?









Anyway, I'm in the UK, so I have no idea when I'll actually get to find out anything. I have a full day at sixth form, and work afterwards


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


I think it's due q2 2012


You mean Q2 2012 + 60-90 days + another Q?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


does anyone know when nda lifts for pacific time zones?


If it drops at midnight = 9pm
If it drops at noon = 9am


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*


I'm getting excited








Even though I am a motherboard upgrade away from being Bulldozer ready









Weather you like it or not, Bulldozer will likely be a huge success in the OEM/Pre built system market.
'Normal' people will love the high base clock speeds and the multiple cores, 8 in the case of the 8150.

It's the Overclocking potential that us here on OCN should care about. Supposedly 4.5GHz 'easily' on air?
Who cares about stock benchmarks anyway?









Anyway, I'm in the UK, so I have no idea when I'll actually get to find out anything. I have a full day at sixth form, and work afterwards










I'm getting excited too







I don't care if it can't beat a 2600K... As long as its close in performance to that chip or the 2500K I'll be happy. Besides it will be a nice upgrade for us eh?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*


I'm getting excited








Even though I am a motherboard upgrade away from being Bulldozer ready









Weather you like it or not, Bulldozer will likely be a huge success in the OEM/Pre built system market.
'Normal' people will love the high base clock speeds and the multiple cores, 8 in the case of the 8150.

It's the Overclocking potential that us here on OCN should care about. Supposedly 4.5GHz 'easily' on air?
Who cares about stock benchmarks anyway?









Anyway, I'm in the UK, so I have no idea when I'll actually get to find out anything. I have a full day at sixth form, and work afterwards










It'll overclock easily to 4.5ghz with a D14


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oicw*


You mean Q2 2012 + 60-90 days + another Q?




















you punny!


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


If it drops at midnight = 9pm
If it drops at noon = 9am


thanks for the NDA info Don,you walk on the edge


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


I'm going to lol if it gets delayed again. Hopefully this doesn't turn into the Duke Nukem Forever of processors. Delay after delay for a disappointment. I still have hope for Bulldozer. AMD has been good with price/performance ratio before

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


Ooh you had to go there didn't you?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kzone75*


http://www.youtube.com/user/AMDUnpro.../5/DV8rhuaxR5U I think this is relevant to this thread and I haven't seen it before. This is also my last post on here.










It's relevant, and interesting, but where's the BEEF?

Have fun, btw!


----------



## black96ws6

Whatever happens in the next few hours let's try not to go for each other's throats and spiral this thread into insults and putting people down.

At the end of the day it's just a computer chip.

And I think we can all agree that whatever Anand and TechPowerUp put up is going to be legitimate, so there shouldn't be any more arguing!

And hopefully by tonight if the NDA rumors are correct I'll know whether I'm upgrading to an FX-8150 or a 2600k come Black Friday


----------



## Kyronn94

Quote:



Originally Posted by *spiderm0nkey*


I'm getting excited too







I don't care if it can't beat a 2600K... As long as its close in performance to that chip or the 2500K I'll be happy. Besides it will be a nice upgrade for us eh?


My thoughts exactly








I'm not expecting it to take the gaming throne from the 2500K, just make it a bit more uncomfortable for it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


It'll overclock easily to 4.5ghz with a D14


Well that already puts it leaps and bounds ahead of the Phenom II series.
Especially my Phenom II


----------



## nanoprobe

822 pages?







Carry on


----------



## Benz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nanoprobe*


822 pages?







Carry on










Oh I smell 1000 pages in a day already.


----------



## Cyclonic

NDA drop in 30 min?


----------



## macca_dj

DNA lets see if this stays !!

Downloadable net acronyms


----------



## conzilla

Even if BD is a Fail processor it will sell well. Just the fact that it will say 8 core and 4.2 turbo on the box will sell it to the general public. I was tricked in a similar way with the p4 i was uninformed and saw huge ghz on the box.


----------



## Derp

If the performance is less than expected I'm expecting AMD to sink its claws into reviewers to make sure they are as positive as possible about BD, making sure games are GPU limited and making several excuses.

I hope a few reviewers do proper, honest reviews. [H] was brutally honest with Phenom II and I respected them for it.


----------



## black96ws6

EDIT***NM, would still like to be able to discuss the results once they're finally available here...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Who owns this site? Who can I complain too?

I guess I could do a "WHO IS\\ARIN"?


"The Duke" is the head guy AFAIK.


----------



## Benz

If it's a fail I'll sell my UD3 and get myself a P67 mobo and a 2500K.


----------



## Sickened1

My anticipation is SOARING.


----------



## Darksoul844

I just got a new job, Fx8150 here i come! i just hope reviews and benches shows good if not 2500k here i come lol


----------



## Droogie

So, the NDA drop is midnight in what time zone again?


----------



## whemian

Whatever the result is, Bulldozer will go down to history as
the most anticipated CPU ever


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Droogie*


So, the NDA drop is midnight in what time zone again?










It would seem that as we are unable to talk about anything other than When they drop the NDA thats all we are going to be seeing in this thread,
NDA drops 12midnight US time,

I think do not quote me on that its just a rumour I think I am not to sure maybe some one else could clarify it,


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Droogie*


So, the NDA drop is midnight in what time zone again?










US Central.

OT:

I'm apprehensive, there's been talk like this before, but nothing happened. Just another delay. -.-.

Good thing I love hardware, and really don't care.







.


----------



## a pet rock

Isn't the NDA drop still a rumor and any times associated with it are speculation?


----------



## Atham

When will it come out? Today at midnight? I hope so. Can't wait for benchmarks.


----------



## Droogie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


It would seem that as we are unable to talk about anything other than When they drop the NDA thats all we are going to be seeing in this thread,
NDA drops 12midnight US time,

I think do not quote me on that its just a rumour I think I am not to sure maybe some one else could clarify it,


US time doesn't say alot.







That can be +/- 5 hours.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

What I'd like to know is when is it midnight for you guys? 10:50am, 12th Oct here. Curious as to whether I'll be at work or not when the NDA is lifted. If it is....


----------



## Droogie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *spiderm0nkey*


What I'd like to know is when is it midnight for you guys? 10:50am, 12th Oct here. Curious as to whether I'll be at work or not when the NDA is lifted. If it is....


It's almost 6pm here in Florida. Which is on EDT. If the poster who said Central time is correct, that's one hour behind me.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *conzilla*


Even if BD is a Fail processor it will sell well. Just the fact that it will say 8 core and 4.2 turbo on the box will sell it to the general public.


With an optional water cooler, salesmen can pull it off as:

"AMD FX - Turbocharged and intercooled, performance and endurance redefined!"


----------



## cokezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15265470*
> "The Duke" is the head guy AFAIK.


Its ADMIN no?

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=1

Anyways

see my post got delete for no reason what so ever










I'm currently in the uk

so its 22.52 here

guess i'll be reading it in the morning


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cokezone*


Its ADMIN no?

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=1

Anyways

see my post got delete for no reason what so ever










I'm currently in the uk

so its 22.52 here

guess i'll be reading it in the morning


Your sig got a







and a







from me you sly dog.


----------



## Atham

12:04 In the morning here. When are the BD supposed to come?


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Atham*


12:04 In the morning here. When are the BD supposed to come?


Officially? Some time this week.


----------



## Atham

Unofficially?


----------



## Edgemeal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Droogie*


It's almost 6pm here in Florida. Which is on EDT. If the poster who said Central time is correct, that's one hour behind me.


I would assume AMD is going to do a press release and AMD press releases are usually posted at 12:00 AM Eastern Time, (11PM CST).


----------



## a pet rock

Rumors. I think if it's a midnight release it will be a US based time. Which means six hours from now for Eastern and nine hours for Pacific.


----------



## XbeaTX

official facebook page of tom's *italy* announce a review tomorrow at 6:00 AM


----------



## Nocturin

No one knows!

CONSPIRACY!


----------



## Seronx

7 hours to go

I'm still awaiting fail


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

I am so excited!!!


----------



## Atham

I will wait until tomorrow. G'Night guys.

Quote:



I am so excited!!!


Me too


----------



## Flippy125

We need to hit 1k pages before launch!


----------



## Benz

I'm gonna go hit the sack.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


7 hours to go

I'm still awaiting fail


In Soviet Russia.. Dozer Fail You!


----------



## Atham

1000 here we go. Will this count as spamming?


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


7 hours to go

I'm still awaiting fail


me thinks 6


----------



## swindle

I'm sure.


----------



## Schmuckley

hmm..press release @ midnight ..hmm//it may be a late one for me..


----------



## Atham

I can't hold it. I need to sleep. The extra time sleeping after school didn't work.


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Atham*


1000 here we go. Will this count as spamming?


I hope not. If so, I apologize for my last post. I will probably be picking up Bulldozer even if it minimally matches the Phenom II X6 just because I've already dumped money into my mobo and the overclocking potential is huge

EDIT: Link to the information on the press release?


----------



## QuackPot

Saw those on the OCUK forums. Dunno if they've been posted before.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


I hope not. If so, I apologize for my last post. I will probably be picking up Bulldozer even if it minimally matches the Phenom II X6 just because I've already dumped money into my mobo and the overclocking potential is huge


I'm hoping they stress this in the review's but your going to need a high end cooler if your planning on max overclocks. A hyper 212+ isn't going to do it. The 8150 puts out a lot of heat over 4.5Ghz


----------



## valvehead

Oh, the wait. I've come close to throwing my P4 home server out the window several times this year.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Atham*


Unofficially?


Shhhh! That's not allowed!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


Saw those on the OCUK forums. Dunno if they've been posted before.


Deleted in 3...2...1...


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


















Saw those on the OCUK forums. Dunno if they've been posted before.


Uh oh, quick OCN, censor!


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


I'm hoping they stress this in the review's but your going to need a high end cooler if your planning on max overclocks. A hyper 212+ isn't going to do it. The 8150 puts out a lot of heat over 4.5Ghz


That and nice power supplied to the CPU - i guess we will see a sea of molten systemboards the first few weeks.


----------



## Seronx

I love this forum....


----------



## Genome852

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


Saw those on the OCUK forums. Dunno if they've been posted before.


That looks quite good... hopefully they're real <_<


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genome852*


That looks quite good... hopefully they're real <_<


Haha bro! I know right?

This is messing with my mind. Hell, if its on par with the 2600k then so be it! GIVE IT TO ME ALREADY!

ARGH! Worse then foreplay!


----------



## dalastbmills

Working all night tonight. Have my phone charged and ready for a possible newegg purchase!!!


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genome852*


That looks quite good... hopefully they're real <_<


Look at the Crysis one. It fails miserably.


----------



## Atham

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genome852*


That looks quite good... hopefully they're real <_<


I don't think the results are that good. But again, it is 245 $ = 180 Euros.

Also, BIOS problems and other stuff.


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


I'm hoping they stress this in the review's but your going to need a high end cooler if your planning on max overclocks. A hyper 212+ isn't going to do it. The 8150 puts out a lot of heat over 4.5Ghz


I'll be picking up a watercooler and probably clocking 5.5GHz. I may end up going with the FX branded cooler if it's any cheaper than the Antec 920 it's based off of


----------



## Don Karnage

It got crucified in the crysis benchmark. What was that 38fps less then a lower clocked 2500K?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flippy125;15266096*
> I'll be picking up a watercooler and probably clocking 5.5GHz. I may end up going with the FX branded cooler if it's any cheaper than the Antec 920 it's based off of


You'll need custom water for 5Ghz and i'm not sure you'll be even able to hit that high. At 4.8Ghz the 8150 puts out 268w of heat.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuackPot;15266068*
> Look at the Crysis one. It fails miserably.


I wouldn't say it fails miserably...

I would say it's a subpar gaming chip, but a good multithreading/tasking chip.

I'd like to see how well it scales with MHz/Cores vs SB, clock for clock, 5GHz vs 5GHz.


----------



## Atham

Yeah, me too.

After what I see from the bulldozer, I might move on to Intel. Hopefully the FX 8170P will be better, as that is the one I will most likely buy.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15266103*
> I wouldn't say it fails miserably...
> 
> I would say it's a subpar gaming chip, but a good multithreading/tasking chip.
> 
> I'd like to see how well it scales with MHz/Cores vs SB, clock for clock, 5GHz vs 5GHz.


I'm with you balla. I want clock for clock benchmarks.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15266103*
> I wouldn't say it fails miserably...
> 
> I would say it's a subpar gaming chip, but a good multithreading/tasking chip.
> 
> I'd like to see how well it scales with MHz/Cores vs SB, clock for clock, 5GHz vs 5GHz.


You gonna get one to bench?


----------



## Atham

I might go on with Intel or a water cooling solution (Corsair H50 or H60). I mean *125 watts* and it is weaker than the intel i7 2600k with *95 watts*? I don't want my parents yelling at me for the energy bills. I think I might go with the i7 2700k when it comes out, or ivy bridge + water cooling.


----------



## yukon

never any quad benches just the 8 core.. I want quad benches, and I want them now!


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266100*
> You'll need custom water for 5Ghz and i'm not sure you'll be even able to hit that high. At 4.8Ghz the 8150 puts out 268w of heat.










Where are you getting the information from?

Offtopic: This anticipation is helping me take focus away from getting Android on my TouchPad


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15266154*
> You gonna get one to bench?


I am. Plan on a 4170 as soon as Microcenter carries them.

Anyone catch the I3 2100 beating the 8150 by 17fps in Crysis? Oh My Amd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flippy125;15266166*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you getting the information from?
> 
> Offtopic: This anticipation is helping me take focus away from getting Android on my TouchPad


It was in the Lab review. The 8150 at 4.8Ghz pulled 22 Amps by itself

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham;15266156*
> I might go on with Intel or a water cooling solution (Corsair H50 or H60). I mean *125 watts* and it is weaker than the intel i7 2600k with *95 watts*? I don't want my parents yelling at me for the energy bills. I think I might go with the i7 2700k when it comes out, or ivy bridge + water cooling.


Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge don't need water to hit 5Ghz


----------



## Megacharge

If Bulldozer ends up being a fail, I'll just stick with my 1055T until Bulldozer is perfected. This chip has a lot of potential with the right refinements and besides, I've had Intel rigs all my life, I've grown tired of Intel as a company and the upgrade cycle (new mobo).


----------



## Atham

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266178*
> Anyone catch the I3 2100 beating the 8150 by 17fps in Crysis? Oh My Amd


I did. I was more-ore-less an AMD fanboy for now. I am not so sure...

Well good night guys. You have to post 1000 posts on your own.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15266154*
> You gonna get one to bench?


I'm pretty poor, the only way I'll be doing that is if the performance is there to warrant a sale/switch of my current cpu/mobo.

That's why I was with AMD for so long, $235 was the most I ever spent on a processor (1090T).

The AM3+ upgrade path notes a 10% improvement in performance, IB is talking about 20% from both clock increases and IPC increase. One thing I've noticed with my i5-2500k, is that in cpu crippling games like SC2, WoW, and several others 5.2GHz isn't enough from this level of IPC to keep frame rates over 40fps at critical times.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kchris;15266123*
> Yeah this isn't for me, I'm a gamer. 2500k makes much more sense for me in every way, performance AND price. Have fun with BD guys.


Cool story bro.. I was thinking the same thing but I won't take one benchmark's word to sway me.. Hell I have been playing everything with just a lil old 955.. And if the fx 4 series is better than that and a few hundred I will prolly just stay loyal since all the extra isn't necessarily what i need.. Plus all the other components you have to swap out to do a new chip..

However I may decide to make an intel machine (another complete system) just to see if it makes a whole lotta difference while gaming.. Pretty sure any chip that won't bottleneck the video cards is more than enough for most games.. Hell if ps3 can do it lol...


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genome852;15266041*
> That looks quite good... hopefully they're real <_<


It's a pity the 8150 is OC'd in those benches (I know stock 8150 results are also there) whereas the 2600K isn't. Real fair right?


----------



## Chuckclc

Im not going to worry how it performs on a game how many years old? And the other numbers looked very nice. But like i said before. All that means nothing. I am going to wait and see "real" numbers first, before i believe this other, questionable, stuff.

Long as it blows away the Thubans is all we should really care about. The hell with what it does vs SB. If they can improve their own technology I will have faith in them in the future.
Quote:


> t's a pity the 8150 is OC'd in those benches whereas the 2600K isn't.


Its also not OC'ed. They have both.


----------



## Evil Penguin

So let me get this straight...
If the rumors are true, 2600k is overall faster than the 8150P?

So the 315mm^2 die (BD) is slower than the 216mm^2 die (SB including the IGPU)?
Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?


----------



## Tonza

So far it seems that Bulldozer has very low single threaded performance compared to SB (which isnt good news for gamers). Also its the Fermi of processors, sick power consumption + heat. AMD just tries brute force over intel´s performance with extra cores.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15266290*
> So let me get this straight...
> If the rumors are true, 2600k is overall faster than the 8150P?
> 
> So the 315mm^2 die (BD) is slower than the 216mm^2 die (SB including the IGPU)?
> Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?


Anyone know how much die space the IGP in SB takes up?


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266178*
> It was in the Lab review. The 8150 at 4.8Ghz pulled 22 Amps by itself











22 Amps is what is needed for a central air heater, and I don't think that will fit in that tin that will ship with the FX tin...
Heck, if it was 22 amps, it will trip the breaker in most everyone's house.


----------



## yukon

Can't say I buy those benches, think about it we have all seen the exact opposite elsewhere, have we not? Wait for real results then cast your stones.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15266247*
> Im not going to worry how it performs on a game how many years old? And the other numbers looked very nice. But like i said before. All that means nothing. I am going to wait and see "real" numbers first, before i believe this other, questionable, stuff.


MMO's and RTS games are going to be dual threaded for quite some time most likely.

Several games which came out this year are not very core loving.

The Witcher 2 is one of those titles:










Personally as a gamer, these are the types of games I use to decide my hardware, anything that is quad core optimized or greater isn't going to choke on a decent quad core anyways.


----------



## black96ws6

I have to say, and this is slightly off topic but I hope it won't get deleted...that some of the mods on here are actually pretty cool. And some of the ones I thought weren't cool, actually are as well! Please check the AMD General section!

So, to make sure this doesn't get deleted...T-Minus 6 hours and 8 minutes and counting gang!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KobaltRock;15266323*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 22 Amps is what is needed for a central air heater, and I don't think that will fit in that tin that will ship with the FX tin...
> Heck, if it was 22 amps, it will trip the breaker in most everyone's house.


There was a video in one of the threads of it. Let me see if i can find it

Original text
Quote:


> 5066MHz with a voltage high frequency power was obtained 1.475va with a minimum of stability. I had full stability at frequencies of 4700-4800MHz, which is nothing like Sandy Bridge where most can run 5.1-5.2GHz stable.
> 
> The stock voltage of 1.4v I noticed just scaling up to 1.475v, further having apparently need a better cooling. Worrying was the fact that although we have not increased too much pressure, ammeter began to show alarming levels when we made some runs at 4.8 GHz of Cinebench ... 22.4 A, which translates to ~ 268W. Let us imagine for a second what it means and frequencies above 5 GHz 1.55v should be put into operation another reactor at Cernavoda.


----------



## Chuckclc

A lot of people are trying to compare all these un official benches with SB. Even though they are 2 different companies with different chip structures. As an AMD owner, I just want this to beat the Phenom II X6's by about 15-20%, unlike 99% of the so called benches that have came out, and i could care less if it beats SB or not. Long as its close and competitive with the price.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15266290*
> So let me get this straight...
> If the rumors are true, 2600k is overall faster than the 8150P?
> 
> So the 315mm^2 die (BD) is slower than the 216mm^2 die (SB including the IGPU)?
> Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?


I see it


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266178*
> I am. Plan on a 4170 as soon as Microcenter carries them.
> .../snip


awesome. I'm down to read your results
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15266210*
> I'm pretty poor, the only way I'll be doing that is if the performance is there to warrant a sale/switch of my current cpu/mobo.
> 
> That's why I was with AMD for so long, $235 was the most I ever spent on a processor (1090T).
> 
> The AM3+ upgrade path notes a 10% improvement in performance, IB is talking about 20% from both clock increases and IPC increase. One thing I've noticed with my i5-2500k, is that in cpu crippling games like SC2, WoW, and several others 5.2GHz isn't enough from this level of IPC to keep frame rates over 40fps at critical times.


Yea, I never thought of going with Intel till SB hit because of the price premium for "performance". I'm surprised that @5.2 it's still not enough for the ST games.







<---here's for BD to be competitive to get both big players to innovate, and give us consumers MOAR!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KobaltRock;15266323*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 22 Amps is what is needed for a central air heater, and I don't think that will fit in that tin that will ship with the FX tin...
> Heck, if it was 22 amps, it will trip the breaker in most everyone's house.


22a at what voltage? They could have been reading the amperage off the motherboard, which would have been what, 1.35v? Not 115v AC.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15266246*
> It's a pity the 8150 is OC'd in those benches (I know stock 8150 results are also there) whereas the 2600K isn't. Real fair right?


Yes, but they also had a non-OC'd version in there that was on par with the 2500k. so yes, very fair.

Just 6 more hours, can hardly wait!


----------



## Darkpriest667

Standard United States Household breaker is rated for 15 to 20 amps.... no way its pulling 22 or if it is everyone at AMD engineering department made a rookie mistake in overlooking power consumption.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15266394*
> Standard United States Household breaker is rated for 15 to 20 amps.... no way its pulling 22 or if it is everyone at AMD engineering department made a rookie mistake in overlooking power consumption.


It's in the Lab501 preview if you'd like to look yourself. I can't seem to find the video. Might have been deleted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15266381*
> 22a at what voltage? They could have been reading the amperage off the motherboard, which would have been what, 1.35v? Not 115v AC.


Wild guess Pioneer of 1.475v


----------



## yukon

where do we go for bench result's.. Aside of the one's embedded in this thread?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15266394*
> Standard United States Household breaker is rated for 15 to 20 amps.... no way its pulling 22 or if it is everyone at AMD engineering department made a rookie mistake in overlooking power consumption.


It's not the 110-120 Volt amps it is CPU amps which is 12 volts

12 x 22.4 = 268.8 Watts


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266420*
> It's in the Lab501 preview if you'd like to look yourself. I can't seem to find the video. Might have been deleted


22 amps DC is an I N S A N E amount of current.







for a computer.....


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15266439*
> where do we go for bench result's.. Aside of the one's embedded in this thread?


There's some threads in the "Rumors" section

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266444*
> It's not the 110-120 Volt amps it is CPU amps which is 12 volts
> 
> 12 x 22.4 = 268.8 Watts


Thank you Sernox.


----------



## NateN34

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuackPot;15266003*
> Saw those on the OCUK forums. Dunno if they've been posted before.


If those benches are true, I will be dumping this 2500k.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266314*
> Anyone know how much die space the IGP in SB takes up?


Not sure exactly.
114 million transistors out of 995 million.
I'm feeling too lazy to do the math there.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266420*
> It's in the Lab501 preview if you'd like to look yourself. I can't seem to find the video. Might have been deleted


Lets just say it is... How much is AMD willing to pay out from all the lawsuits of the victims of housefires caused by the firehazard it is producing. Did anyone see a fire hazard warning or an amp usage warning on the box? Which would be required if it drags more power than the standard 20 amps of new households. (which they are required to use in most building codes around the country)

I'm not saying its wrong. It may be pulling 22 amps. But if it is.. that eliminates everyone that doesnt live in a factory or commercial building from using one.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15266452*
> If those benches are true, I will be dumping this POS 2500k.


I recommend waiting for the FX-8120 @ 95 Watts then


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266444*
> It's not the 110-120 Volt amps it is CPU amps which is 12 volts
> 
> 12 x 22.4 = 268.8 Watts


ok that makes more sense.. I was freaking out at 22 amps LOL


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15266452*
> If those benches are true, I will be dumping this POS 2500k.


2500K a piece?


----------



## black96ws6

Good question on the "what do we do when the reviews come out?". Are we embedding the pics to the reviews as usual? There's probably going to be a ton of duplication...


----------



## Tonza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15266452*
> If those benches are true, I will be dumping this POS 2500k.


You gonna play Winrar and Cinebench?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15266487*
> Good question on the "what do we do when the reviews come out?". Are we embedding the pics to the reviews as usual? There's probably going to be a ton of duplication...


Hopefully someone will make a bulldozer review thread after midnight


----------



## Evil Penguin

None of these review guys have done folding performance.
That's all I care about really...
Even though I haven't folded in some time.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266482*
> 2500K a piece?


Hey, he might not like it. There are people out there that might not like Intel CPUs.


----------



## valvehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266314*
> Anyone know how much die space the IGP in SB takes up?


Based on a die picture I found, I figure it to be about 19.2% of the total area or 41.5mm^2.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266444*
> It's not the 110-120 Volt amps it is CPU amps which is 12 volts
> 
> 12 x 22.4 = *268.8 Watts*


not bad at all.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tonza;15266486*
> You gonna play Winrar and Cinebench?


diff strokes???


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15266504*
> Hey, he might not like it. There are people out there that might not like Intel CPUs.


Not possible.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *valvehead;15266508*
> Based on a die picture I found, I figure it to be about 19.2% of the total area or 41.5mm^2.


Thank you valve


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266364*
> There was a video in one of the threads of it. Let me see if i can find it
> 
> Original text
> 5066MHz with a voltage high frequency power was obtained 1.475va with a minimum of stability. I had full stability at frequencies of 4700-4800MHz, which is nothing like Sandy Bridge where most can run 5.1-5.2GHz stable.
> 
> The stock voltage of 1.4v I noticed just scaling up to 1.475v, further having apparently need a better cooling. Worrying was the fact that although we have not increased too much pressure, ammeter began to show alarming levels when we made some runs at 4.8 GHz of Cinebench ... 22.4 A, which translates to ~ 268W. Let us imagine for a second what it means and frequencies above 5 GHz 1.55v should be put into operation another reactor at Cernavoda.


Ahh, thanks, but they are wrong.
For example, 110v using 300w is only 2.7 Amps.
They are Euro, so 220v using 300w is only 1.4Amps.
22.4 Amps @ 220v is 4928watts.

This public service message is brought to you by the 'We are waiting for the NDA liftoff' group.









*edit, yeesh, leave the keyboard for a few mins, and 3 more pages of text pop up.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266444*
> It's not the 110-120 Volt amps it is CPU amps which is 12 volts
> 
> 12 x 22.4 = 268.8 Watts


Sounds good. lol


----------



## valvehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15266498*
> None of these review guys have done folding performance.
> That's all I care about really...
> Even though I haven't folded in some time.


I'm especially curious about folding performance. If BD does well, I would gladly fold on one. My 2600K and GTX580 already make a great folding machine, but it's my main desktop, so I can't commit much time to folding on it. Meanwhile, my old home server sits idling most of the time...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15266528*
> not bad at all.


Those numbers are from an overclock of the FX-8120 125 Watt part @ 4.5GHz I think might be 4.8GHz

Buy the FX-8120 if you want to be energy conservative


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KobaltRock;15266560*
> Ahh, thanks, but they are wrong.
> For example, 110v using 300w is only 2.7 Amps.
> They are Euro, so 220v using 300w is only 1.4Amps.
> 22.4 Amps @ 220v is 4928watts.
> 
> This public service message is brought to you by the 'We are waiting for the NDA liftoff' group.


Thats what I was thinking.. the ampage did not seem correct. I think maybe a decimal place is missing somewhere.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *valvehead;15266567*
> I'm especially curious about folding performance. If BD does well, I would gladly fold on one. My 2600K and GTX580 already make a great folding machine, but it's my main desktop, so I can't commit much time to folding on it. Meanwhile, my old home server sits idling most of the time...


8120P and overclock the fudge out of it.
Might be a pretty good folding machine.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266572*
> Those numbers are from an overclock of the FX-8120 125 Watt part @ 4.5GHz I think might be 4.8GHz
> 
> Buy the FX-8120 if you want to be energy conservative


EDIT: What you mean to say is that you are unaware since official bench's have yet to be released.. That could be complete and utter bs.. If it were intel you wouldn't believe it.


----------



## AMDrocks

5-6 more hours now, Let's just hope the rumors are true and it comes out.

And, Morning Everybody


----------



## 855211

what timezone is the 12:00 ?


----------



## scotty453

uh, forgive me if i'm wrong but 268 W @ 4.8 did we just step back in reducing power consumption or something?.


----------



## Pedros

So... everyone is really interested in the 8core...

but... talking about the 4 and 6 core BD's ... performance difference against x6's and x4's will be even lower... not good :x mannn i really want to go green this time







let's see what the future brings in terms of optimizations


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scotty453;15266633*
> uh, forgive me if i'm wrong but 268 W @ 4.8 did we just step back in reducing power consumption or something?.


You can say that.

Ninja Edit -

SB is not that much better


----------



## pioneerisloud

As far as official benchmarks, I'm thinking we should have ONE DEDICATED THREAD that the OP will update regularly with the new benchmarks as they come out. That will keep duplicates from happening.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pedros;15266638*
> So... everyone is really interested in the 8core...
> 
> but... talking about the 4 and 6 core BD's ... performance difference against x6's and x4's will be even lower... not good :x mannn i really want to go green this time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> let's see what the future brings in terms of optimizations


Well we can only wait, I hope they don't delay it by a hour otherwise i will go SB


----------



## SCollins

W = V x A
A = W / V
V = W / A

see the trend


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15266609*
> EDIT: What you mean to say is that you are unaware since official bench's have yet to be released.. That could be complete and utter bs.. If it were intel you wouldn't believe it.


Actually, If it was shown with a power meter reading the EPS connections and it show it using 20 amps or 25 amps I would totally believe it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scotty453;15266633*
> uh, forgive me if i'm wrong but 268 W @ 4.8 did we just step back in reducing power consumption or something?.


The FX-8120(125W) @ 4.8GHz(90% sure it was this) or 4.5GHz consumes 22.4 amps of 12v
The FX-8150(125W) @ 4.5GHz consumes 22 amps of 12v

It actually looks to be the 95W part

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFBOfimTWWs[/ame]

It see the multiplier @ 200 and HT link at 2.6GHz so it must be an AMD CPU so it is legit


----------



## scotty453

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266661*
> Actually, If it was shown with a power meter reading the EPS connections and it show it using 20 amps or 25 amps I would totally believe it
> 
> The FX-8120(125W) @ 4.8GHz(90% sure it was this) or 4.5GHz consumes 22.4 amps of 12v
> The FX-8150(125W) @ 4.5GHz consumes 22 amps of 12v


can we get some comparisons against older architectures? (Aka deneb) and C2D ?
just wanna see what's happened lol, what the trends are etc.


----------



## Obakemono

How many of the "common" benchmarks out there are based on the Intel compiler??


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266572*
> Those numbers are from an overclock of the FX-8120 125 Watt part @ 4.5GHz I think might be 4.8GHz
> 
> Buy the FX-8120 if you want to be energy conservative


better than my proc if I was to OC it.

Almost better than stock with my proc.

95w part is what you mean?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15266704*
> How many of the "common" benchmarks out there are based on the Intel compiler??


Most of them are hand written now so it doesn't matter

Intel Compiler = poor excuse


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266661*
> Actually, If it was shown with a power meter reading the EPS connections and it show it using 20 amps or 25 amps I would totally believe it
> 
> The FX-8120(125W) @ 4.8GHz(90% sure it was this) or 4.5GHz consumes 22.4 amps of 12v
> The FX-8150(125W) @ 4.5GHz consumes 22 amps of 12v
> 
> It actually looks to be the 95W part
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFBOfimTWWs
> 
> It see the multiplier @ 200 and HT link at 2.6GHz so it must be an AMD CPU so it is legit


Thanks for finding it


----------



## 855211

Any one know what timezone they base the 12:00 off of?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15266704*
> How many of the "common" benchmarks out there are based on the Intel compiler??


What should we use to quickly compare cpu performance? After you decide that, compare the processors again and see what happens.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15265905*
> 7 hours to go
> 
> I'm *still awaiting fail*


Wow why the change in attitude? 1-2 months ago all of your posts made Bulldozer seem like the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;15266753*
> Any one know what timezone they base the 12:00 off of?


I always thought it was 5 Am GMT


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KobaltRock;15266560*
> Ahh, thanks, but they are wrong.
> For example, 110v using 300w is only 2.7 Amps.
> They are Euro, so 220v using 300w is only 1.4Amps.
> 22.4 Amps @ 220v is 4928watts.
> 
> This public service message is brought to you by the 'We are waiting for the NDA liftoff' group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *edit, yeesh, leave the keyboard for a few mins, and 3 more pages of text pop up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good. lol


So computers in Europe run 220V DC?









Your power supply converts this 120/240(110/220) VAC into 12V DC voltages at a higher amperage. An easy example to make this clear to some of you is would be how a 1000W power supply can push 80A without popping a circuit breaker: Wattage = Current (A) x Voltage (12V in this case). 1000/12 = 83.3A.

This is done with a series of transformers and rectifiers which are components inside the PSU that change the voltages (hence the current values) to direct current from alternating current. It's a little more complex than that, but that's the jist of it.

OT: Almost 300W for an OC'd CPU must put out a TON of heat!

Edit: I forgot to explain why this doesn't pop the typical 15A breaker: The wattage required is the same on both sides of the PSU. 1000W/120V = 8.33A (AC)


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266731*
> Most of them are hand written now so it doesn't matter
> 
> Intel Compiler = poor excuse


What are you talking about ? There are very and I mean very few programs with any sort of assembly level optimization.


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *855211;15266624*
> what timezone is the 12:00 ?


That info is under NDA, but most people think 12 EST. That could be 12 AM, or 12 PM.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15266760*
> Wow why the change in attitude? 1-2 months ago all of your posts made Bulldozer seem like the best thing since sliced bread.


It is the best thing since sliced bread but only in VERY SPECIFIC workloads and none of those workloads apply to GAMERS, MULTIMEDIA, and ENTHUSIASTS who want the fastest Pi scores in every Pi benchmark
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15266789*
> What are you talking about ? There are very and I mean very few programs with any sort of assembly level optimization.


Assembly level optimization for Windows is done in the kernel not the application

Hardware - OS - Application - USER


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAF_wit;15266777*
> OT: Almost 300W for an OC'd CPU must put out a TON of heat!


Why i stated if going for max overclocks go with custom water or a D14/Silver arrow


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAF_wit;15266777*
> So computers in Europe run 220V DC?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your power supply converts this 120/240(110/220) VAC into 12V DC voltages at a higher amperage. An easy example to make this clear to some of you is would be how a 1000W power supply can push 80A without popping a circuit breaker: Wattage = Current (A) x Voltage (12V in this case). 1000/12 = 83.3A.


I was obviously measuring from the outlet, not the PSU...
Hey, it is late, blame the low caffeine content in this drink!


----------



## 855211

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266772*
> I always thought it was 5 Am GMT


Thanks. I was hoping it was going to be Pacific time so i get to see the reviews before 12. Dam 6:30 school.


----------



## Nezmen

So, how will a FX-8150 compare to a Phenom II 1100T? I keep reading about how it could/will/is comparing to Intel processors. I just want to know which of the two to buy - 1100T or the 8150... I have a new AM3+ board so I will not be going Intel. Any insight? Thanks.


----------



## HAF_wit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266809*
> Why i stated if going for max overclocks go with custom water or a D14/Silver arrow


Definitely! I can't imagine the temperatures if BD gets crispy from AVX like SB does.


----------



## Hogwasher

thought I would share, sure its already been linked but here you go: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/overclocker_pushes_amd_fx-8150_processor_8ghz


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nezmen;15266873*
> So, how will a FX-8150 compare to a Phenom II 1100T? I keep reading about how it could/will/is comparing to Intel processors. I just want to know which of the two to buy - 1100T or the 8150... I have a new AM3+ board so I will not be going Intel. Any insight? Thanks.


Get bulldozer because it'll overclock higher


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266802*
> It is the best thing since sliced bread but only in VERY SPECIFIC workloads and none of those workloads apply to *GAMERS, MULTIMEDIA, and ENTHUSIASTS* who want the fastest Pi scores in every Pi benchmark
> 
> Assembly level optimization for Windows is done in the kernel not the application
> 
> Hardware - OS - Application - USER


o.0 over generalization? I give no poo for pie. I can't even spell pie. I know the first 3 numbers, 3.14, what use would I have for 1M or 32M numbers?

Unless they're in my bank anyways, then I'll take 32M







.

What sort of work are you talking about?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nezmen;15266873*
> So, how will a FX-8150 compare to a Phenom II 1100T? I keep reading about how it could/will/is comparing to Intel processors. I just want to know which of the two to buy - 1100T or the 8150... I have a new AM3+ board so I will not be going Intel. Any insight? Thanks.


Nobody that knows the answer to this is allowed to post yet. We all think that at 12AM central time the NDA will lift...but we don't know for sure.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hogwasher;15266878*
> thought I would share, sure its already been linked but here you go: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/overclocker_pushes_amd_fx-8150_processor_8ghz


If only they only had LHe they probably could hit 8.9GHz








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15266892*
> What sort of work are you talking about?


I would say HPC but even that case Sandy Bridge's 4C beats Interlagos' 16C so this specific workload probably doesn't even exit


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15266802*
> It is the best thing since sliced bread but only in VERY SPECIFIC workloads and none of those workloads apply to GAMERS, MULTIMEDIA, and ENTHUSIASTS who want the fastest Pi scores in every Pi benchmark
> 
> Assembly level optimization for Windows is done in the kernel not the application
> 
> Hardware - OS - Application - USER


Ummm, it doesn't work that way

The kernel is the Plumbing in the house, the hardware is the house, the applications go through the pipes to the various areas. The Kernel manages the threads, but it doesn't spawn them. The Kernel does not optimize or otherwise touch the code, the application may communicate with the OS in the manner of GUI etc, but on the backend the application is dispatching instruction to the kernel, to be Piped to the furnace.


----------



## Nezmen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15266884*
> Get bulldozer because it'll overclock higher


Thank you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15266893*
> Nobody that knows the answer to this is allowed to post yet. We all think that at 12AM central time the NDA will lift...but we don't know for sure.


Thanks, I know. I was just looking for honest opinions from what we have been seeing the last few days. I shall wait until 12.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Well guys I am calling it a night. I hope to see you guys in the morning and we get some good news


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Ok. We know that BD hit over 8GHz stable for the current world record...What I want to know about is chip degrading.... lets "say" that BD will hit 4.5 on air and be stable...what if the chip burns up after 6 months? i mean with enough N20 and turbo a Honda can make wicked power.....but not for long...any thoughts on this?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Alright guys, pay attention here....

Once NDA lifts, we're obviously going to have official benchmarks coming out. These will be posted in the news section, and Tator Tot will have a combined thread so its easy to find.

Any official benchmarks that are reposted in the AMD sub sections WILL be locked or deleted, and you will be asked to go to the news thread anyway. Just a friendly heads up for what's in store.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15267010*
> Alright guys, pay attention here....
> 
> Once NDA lifts, we're obviously going to have official benchmarks coming out. These will be posted in the news section, and Tator Tot will have a combined thread so its easy to find.
> 
> Any official benchmarks that are reposted in the AMD sub sections WILL be locked or deleted, and you will be asked to go to the news thread anyway. Just a friendly heads up for what's in store.


Can you make a sticky in the AMD subforums? Linking to the news article
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15266900*
> Ummm, it doesn't work that way
> 
> The kernel is the Plumbing in the house, the hardware is the house, the applications go through the pipes to the various areas. The Kernel manages the threads, but it doesn't spawn them. The Kernel does not optimize or otherwise touch the code, the application may communicate with the OS in the manner of GUI etc, but on the backend the application is dispatching instruction to the kernel, to be Piped to the furnace.


I don't know about that it is mainly the OSes fault if the threads aren't optimized right but no worries fro AMD FX it should be able to use the same techniques as HTT as it was optimized by Andy Glew


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15267020*
> Can you make a sticky in the AMD subforums? Linking to the news article


I'm sure we can do something along those lines, yes. It wouldn't exactly be fair for us to be locking down the threads without some sort of notice up in those sections.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15267001*
> Ok. We know that BD hit over 8GHz stable for the current world record...What I want to know about is chip degrading.... lets "say" that BD will hit 4.5 on air and be stable...what if the chip burns up after 6 months? i mean with enough N20 and turbo a Honda can make wicked power.....but not for long...any thoughts on this?


Yes on the degradation (that's why AMD's warranty does not cover overclock)
but with adequate cooling it should be like 3 instead 10 years.
Now what's adequate - well at 260-270W only top tier air towers and noncheap water coolers.
btw let's not forget that the 8Ghz was with 3 of the 4 cor... erm sorry , modules turned off.


----------



## Chuckclc

Can we create a section on OCN called "The Graveyard" or something for all these so called leaked Benches and stuff that have caused so much bickering over the last 4 months or so? Ok, Im halfway kidding. But can we?


----------



## flashtest

why, so if they are fake those sites still get clicks, and if they are real it will be a flood massacre - "Told Ya so" "yes but ..." "No but" "look y axis" "look Treview" and everyone will go on a crusade like a paladin.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15267069*
> Can we create a section on OCN called "The Graveyard" or something for all these so called leaked Benches and stuff that have caused so much bickering over the last 4 months or so? Ok, Im halfway kidding. But can we?


I think it'd be fun to do a debunk threads. Something like

So and So leaked this and this was reality

Like Super Pi

OBR Anandtech/Tpu

3years 20 minutes 12.59s

Would help to defud the community and also to establish who the people where who fed bad info.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15267067*
> Yes on the degradation (that's why AMD's warranty does not cover overclock)
> but with adequate cooling it should be like 3 instead 10 years.
> Now what's adequate - well at 260-270W only top tier air towers and noncheap water coolers.
> btw let's not forget that the 8Ghz was with 3 of the 4 cor... erm sorry , modules turned off.


Whait.....did i miss somthing? I thought that BD was a true 8 core chip...but its only has 4 modules?/?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15266452*
> If those benches are true, I will be dumping this 2500k.


I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Phenom II x6 chips offer better price vs performance vs the i5-2500k when it comes to the things it seems bulldozer is going to be better at anyways.

Also the Phenom II x6 @ $150 while being slightly slower than i5-2500ks in most multithreading programs, are pretty close to it. So close it would be a side grade for anyone using the Phenom II in the first place.

I hope this time around you spend some time to figure out your usage needs, and make a better purchase based on your needs.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15267069*
> Can we create a section on OCN called "The Graveyard" or something for all these so called leaked Benches and stuff that have caused so much bickering over the last 4 months or so? Ok, Im halfway kidding. But can we?


I like the idea:thumb:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15267067*
> Yes on the degradation (that's why AMD's warranty does not cover overclock)
> but with adequate cooling it should be like 3 instead 10 years.
> Now what's adequate - well at 260-270W only top tier air towers and noncheap water coolers.
> btw let's not forget that the 8Ghz was with 3 of the 4 cor... erm sorry , modules turned off.


Wondering the same







i guess only time will tell.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15267130*
> Whait.....did i miss somthing? I thought that BD was a true 8 core chip...but its only has 4 modules?/?


They achieved 8ghz with two modules or 4 "cores" turned off. IIRC or so i thought?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15267140*
> They achieved 8ghz with two modules or 4 "cores" turned off. IIRC


Three modules and 6 integer clusters turned off


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15267178*
> Three modules and 6 integer clusters turned off


Yeah wasn't thinking straight, my carelessness knows no bounds









I thought to myself they achieved it with only two cores but some reason typed 4...









It happens


----------



## pinkfloyd48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15267131*
> I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Phenom II x6 chips offer better price vs performance vs the i5-2500k when it comes to the things it seems bulldozer is going to be better at anyways.
> 
> Also the Phenom II x6 @ $150 while being slightly slower than i5-2500ks in most multithreading programs, are pretty close to it. So close it would be a side grade for anyone using the Phenom II in the first place.
> 
> I hope this time around you spend some time to figure out your usage needs, and make a better purchase based on your needs.


So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scollins;15264961*
> the thing about nda club, is that you don't talk about nda club.


lol


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267216*
> So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


955BE is a beast for gaming....i run the snot out of mine. PII x6 if you want a little extra juice.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267216*
> So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


A Bulldozer.









Bulldozer will be a fail only to some people. For some people they expect BD to come out and smash a 2600K for less then the cost of a 2600K. Not sure how thats possible. For most of us, we want it to be a nice improvement over the Phenom II and compete with the 2500K.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15267186*
> Yeah wasn't thinking straight, my carelessness knows no bounds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought to myself they achieved it with only two cores but some reason typed 4...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It happens


It's okay it happens


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267216*
> So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


What games are you playing ?


----------



## radaja

namegt got all 8 cores to 7998MHz










http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2040532


----------



## pinkfloyd48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15267248*
> What games are you playing ?


Ok here go,s RO,BF2 and 3, WOT,Bad Company COH Call of Duty WAW Half life Crysis and Crysis2


----------



## swindle

Yours or something?


----------



## spacin9guild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15267131*
> I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Phenom II x6 chips offer better price vs performance vs the i5-2500k when it comes to the things it seems bulldozer is going to be better at anyways.
> 
> Also the Phenom II x6 @ $150 while being slightly slower than i5-2500ks in most multithreading programs, are pretty close to it. So close it would be a side grade for anyone using the Phenom II in the first place.
> 
> I hope this time around you spend some time to figure out your usage needs, and make a better purchase based on your needs.


Game speed in RTS like Supreme Commander is MUCH faster with a 2500k. (thousands of units) I've had both...the difference is night and day. If you're gaming, an 2500k is without doubt the way to go, esp. since they can be found under $200 dollars.

I still might get BD just to have some overclocking fun, but by the looks of things i'll be looking forward to Ivy.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267313*
> Ok here go,s RO,BF2 and 3, WOT,Bad Company COH Call of Duty WAW Half life Crysis and Crysis2


Most of those games are fiarly multithreaded and should play fine on pretty much any 4-6core cpu.

Wait for benches, but I doubt you'll have a problem with a FX cpu if the leaks are indicative of anything substantial. which I have my doubts about. If the benchs aren't favorable, grab a 4 core 965 or something and oc it up to 4ghz, that will handily cover your needs.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15267273*
> namegt got all 8 cores to 7998MHz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2040532


Why is it rejected?


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267216*
> So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


Most will say at least the x4 955 which seems to be a proven quad core, but I have the x6 1100T (1090 same thing and cheaper) and have seen Crysis 2 and COD black ops use all 6 cores. My 1100T also overclocks 24/7 in the 4200Mhz range, some have said the x4 will OC higher but not always true. I really think If I disabled 2 cores I might be able to get a lot higher but why bother, not worth it to me.

So its really your budget, if you can get a 1090/1100 and oc it, or 955 and oc that if you want to save the money. If you dont want to OC but have the money the x4 980 is stock at 3.7Ghz.

The 1090/1100 have a better memory controller (imc) so you can generally overclock that a lot higher than the x4's. Mine is at 3078mhz with 4 dimms at 1894mhz


----------



## el gappo

Because cpu-z is gay.

Also I bet its core 0 + 1. Anyway, still amazing.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15267361*
> Because cpu-z is gay.
> 
> Also I bet its core 0 + 1. Anyway, still amazing.


i thought cpu-z was Bi?
yea who knows whats whats anymore


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15267361*
> Because cpu-z is gay.
> 
> Also I bet its core 0 + 1. Anyway, still amazing.


Good luck Sat Gappo! Got your chip yet?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinkfloyd48;15267216*
> So then what should I get for gaming if BD is fail I already have Asus 990fx board


955, or the bulldozer x4, or sell the board, and get a ~$150 socket 1155 gen 3 from AsRock /w the i5-2500k. The latter would set you up for an IB upgrade, and 7000 series/700 series PCIe 3.0 cards coming out later this year/next year.

I've already had a 1090T, for gaming in most cases extra cores are like teats on a bore, worthless.

More games a dual threaded than quad threaded, you can count the number of games that will actually take full advantage of more than 4 cores on one hand.


----------



## el gappo

lol radaja
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15267401*
> Good luck Sat Gappo! Got your chip yet?


I have one, not the one I'll be using. ( It's not mine and it sucks. )


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15267415*
> 955, or the bulldozer x4, or sell the board, and get a ~$150 socket 1155 gen 3 from AsRock /w the i5-2500k.
> 
> I've already had a 1090T, for gaming in most cases extra cores are like teats on a bore, worthless.
> 
> More games a dual threaded than quad threaded, you can count the number of games that will actually take full advantage of more than 4 cores on one hand.


Tell those programmers to get on the ball.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15267438*
> Tell those programmers to get on the *balla Balla*.


Fixed


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15267438*
> Tell those programmers to get on the ball.


Software is the biggest bottleneck imo.


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

So the rumor of the FX-8150/8170 chips releasing at midnight are true? false?


----------



## Don Karnage

Its nice to see intel and amd fans alike just patiently waiting for benchmarks and not bickering.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InterestedThirdParty;15267466*
> So the rumor of the FX-8150/8170 chips releasing at midnight are true? false?


The NDA comes down at midnight. I don't think we'll see chips till the 18th


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

How long till 12.01am in usa!!!!!????


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267469*
> Its nice to see intel and amd fans alike just patiently waiting for benchmarks and not bickering.
> 
> The NDA comes down at midnight. I don't think we'll see chips till the 18th


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiloZd1H4ow[/ame]

Yes very nice

Aria UK says October 24th


----------



## northbayvallejo

I'm curious to see if the FX-4100 will unlock


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267478*
> How long till 12.01am in usa!!!!!????


3 hours and change


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Currently 7:22pm CST

Linky: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267469*
> Its nice to see intel and amd fans alike just patiently waiting for benchmarks and not bickering.
> 
> The NDA comes down at midnight. I don't think we'll see chips till the 18th


huh? NDA, non disclosure agreement?


----------



## Erick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InterestedThirdParty;15267508*
> huh? NDA, non disclosure agreement?


yes


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *northbayvallejo;15267500*
> I'm curious to see if the FX-4100 will unlock


Rumors have it the 4100 will not be available at the launch of the 8150, 8120 and 6100.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267505*
> 3 hours and change


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15267507*
> Currently 7:22pm CST
> 
> Linky: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/


FARKKKKK Time zones. I'll be at a funeral when NDA is dropped...


----------



## whitekidney

How can you say that the NDA lifts at midnight when the NDA lift date is under NDA? Was it announced officially? No? =


----------



## Scorpion87

NDA
Nuclear Decommissioning Authority
National Defence Academy
National Design Academy
National Dance Alliance
National Dart Association
...

OT: Cant wait... 3 hours to go, nothing to do, cant sleep, want the Dozer NAO...


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15267545*
> Rumors have it the 4100 will not be available at the launch of the 8150, 8120 and 6100.


I've heard the same. Sucks because i want a 4170


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15267561*
> NDA
> Nuclear Decommissioning Authority
> National Defence Academy
> National Design Academy
> National Dance Alliance
> National Dart Association
> ...
> 
> OT: Cant wait... 3 hours to go, nothing to do, cant sleep, want the Dozer NAO...


LATEDOZER. Sleep.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15267559*
> How can you say that the NDA lifts at midnight when the NDA lift date is under NDA? Was it announced officially? No? =


Because people under NDA have confirmed the date and time unofficially


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InterestedThirdParty;15267466*
> So the rumor of the FX-8150/8170 chips releasing at midnight are true? false?


based on comments from the mods and the deletion of newly arisen benchies, it's either midnight or sometime this week based on comments from AMD during a recent demo of BF3.

We shall see


----------



## eggs2see

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267548*
> FARKKKKK Time zones. I'll be at a funeral when NDA is dropped...


Bulldozer's funeral







jks jks


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267478*
> How long till 12.01am in usa!!!!!????


3.5 hrs EST


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267576*
> LATEDOZER. Sleep.


But i dont want to








Waiting for the Dozer is to exiting


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;15266759*
> What should we use to quickly compare cpu performance? After you decide that, compare the processors again and see what happens.


Um, I just asked a question to educate myself. No need to get cranky.


----------



## kevink82

Well only thing i can find is the power consumption of bulldozer, http://www.toppc.com.tw/articles/1066/amd_fx-8120p_oc_4-8g_run_cinebench-r11-5/

Says overclock to 4.5 in linx takes 240 watts........ but temprature doesnt seems high at all, notice his youtube when running linx is 40 GFlops.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevink82;15267654*
> Well only thing i can find is the power consumption of bulldozer, http://www.toppc.com.tw/articles/1066/amd_fx-8120p_oc_4-8g_run_cinebench-r11-5/
> 
> Says overclock to 4.5 in linx takes 240 watts........ but temprature doesnt seems high at all, notice his youtube when running linx is 40 GFlops.


Pretty sure Linx just has issues running 8 cores


----------



## Don Karnage

Anyone think Tigerdirect or Newegg will have some combo's? I want a MSI board and maybe the 6100 to see if it'll unlock


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15265499*
> If it's a fail I'll sell my UD3 and get myself a P67 mobo and a 2500K.


but the question is, where would we sell it?


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15267622*
> But i dont want to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for the Dozer is to exiting


I know... Beers all round?


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267678*
> I know... Beers all round?


Good idea, have one left in the fridge !
















EDIT: guess that is one way of friendly Dozer trash talk , just killing the time, and speculating


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267664*
> Pretty sure Linx just has issues running 8 cores


It shouldn't the kernel is used in massive multi socket systems.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15267694*
> Good idea, have one left in the fridge !


I still have a Slab. GET ON THE NEXT PLANE TO AUSTRALIA. Party.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267674*
> Anyone think Tigerdirect or Newegg will have some combo's? I want a MSI board and maybe the 6100 to see if it'll unlock


TD had some combos up a few days ago - took them down though. If I remember correctly they included the 6100


----------



## Nocturin

There have been slides put on on a thread at a different forum, if you guys are interested. Can't link, but notification should be ok.


----------



## yukon

Anyone nervous?


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15267741*
> Anyone nervous?


here , me !
Just got a beer and watching limitless to kill the time remaining !


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15267741*
> Anyone nervous?


Curious, not nervous. I have no real concerns one way or the other.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15267755*
> here , me !
> Just got a beer and watching limitless to kill the time remaining !


----------



## Siegfried262

Can't wait! Tickled pink to see this whole thing settled one way or the other.

It'll determine which path I take come Christmas time.


----------



## tjmagneto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15267702*
> It shouldn't the kernel is used in massive multi socket systems.


I'm pretty sure the poster was referring to the LinX benchmark, not the Linux OS.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267760*


I see joker on the left one... the right one... ...wha dat from?


----------



## yukon

Question, is the octo necessarily the best chip for gaming? I noticed the 6core thurbans weren't a good gaming chip where the quad pII weren't all that bad.. Does this leave room for the 4100 series to be a good gaming chip am i missing something? Also could it be possible the 6100 series are more of a comparison to the 6 core i7 2600k. <-- For gaming that is..

The thing is we only see octo benches whether true or not is not going to show till tonight. When do we get to see quad and 6 core benches?

The 8100 series shows fantastic multi tasking capabilities and im sure we will see the same with the 6 core but shouldn't the 32nm quad be better than the phenom chips.. by a bit? Did I just show my noobary all out in the open like that by posting this?


----------



## Phantom123

2 hours and 7 minutes left lol. These forums are going to light up like fireworks.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;15267866*
> 2 hours and 7 minutes left lol. These forums are going to light up like fireworks.


More like 3 hours and 6 minutes


----------



## cokezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;15267866*
> 2 hours and 7 minutes left lol. These forums are going to light up like fireworks.


More like 4 hours ?


----------



## AMDrocks

it 11:30AM here, Launches 2:30PM, So what is that, 3 hours on the dot?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantom123;15267866*
> 2 hours and 7 minutes left lol. These forums are going to light up like fireworks.


I was planning on getting some sleep tonight. I may not now.
Lots of reading in store







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15267877*
> More like 3 hours and 6 minutes


3 hours and 2 minutes!


----------



## yukon

please someone elaborate on the quad 32nm specs.... tired of octo core talk


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15267919*
> it 11:30AM here, Launches 2:30PM, So what is that, 3 hours on the dot?


12pm in VIC son.


----------



## mystikalrush

If were still going by Central US time then 4hr 1min


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Where the hell did passmark get their prices? $427.31 for a 2600k. IN WHAT UNIVERSE


----------



## Scorpion87

Ima raging ma F5 button


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267975*
> Where the hell did passmark get their prices? $427.31 for a 2600k. IN WHAT UNIVERSE


Amazon....

----
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw[/ame]


----------



## Sainesk

so... are they actually going to go for sale on sites like newegg, or just finally get released for reviewing...

if someone here does some testing/benchmarks could you post how well the top dozer does at folding?


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seronx;15267986*
> amazon....
> 
> ----
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk-ncrmvcw


ugh so bad...
as in the price. not the song.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15267870*
> Watching How I met your mother on 3rd monitor ;D
> 
> Only way to enjoy Bulldozer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get wasted.


Watching real steel.


----------



## kevink82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Da1Nonly;15267839*
> Looks like bulldozer released in china....


Nothing special its out today in malaysia too, just i wont get mine till tomorrow for the chip and my watercooling parts is being hold by customs......

they probably wanna argue with me again that its for automobile usage like last time and charge me import tax again......


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15267972*
> Couldn't find a pen.
> Drinking coffee instead.


I'm wishing raising a Yuengling for the 4th screne through!

EDIT: 137 peeps lurkz thiz thread DAAAYYYUUMM!


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15268006*
> Watching real steel.


Yep the movie is awesome


----------



## whitekidney

EDIT: ^ LOL

Hmm, its 03:08 AM here, go to sleep or stay awake?
OCN DECIDES!


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15268016*
> I'm wishing raising a Yuengling for the 4th screne through!
> 
> EDIT: *142* peeps lurkz thiz thread DAAAYYYUUMM!


Use notepad with really big letters if you cant find a pen !

And fixed that for ya !!!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15268027*
> Yep the movie is awesome


Its good to know a movie reviewer ! we are watching it in 7.1 on my 65inch 1080 rear project "which BTW I would put up against any plasma lcd in terms of picture quality" its a fantastic TV. Just heavier then hell !!


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15268065*
> you troll!


Thats what i thought !
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15268070*
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH. I lol'd


And yes, it made me lol too !

But its sad he broke the chain of screens


----------



## Buckaroo

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uxn3RoqTOQ&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uxn3RoqTOQ&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uxn3RoqTOQ&feature=related[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15268124*
> ok, next one has to have both of them in it XD


At least that milk is fresh


----------



## Darkpriest667

some of us who are the children of alcoholics dont drink but CHEERS


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15268148*
> some of us who are the children of alcoholics dont drink but CHEERS


TV as a monitor?


----------



## Obakemono

You guys are shooting for 1000 pages before launch I see. This sucks because A: I'm out of beer B: I have to get up at 4am for work C: I'm out of beer.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

lol I must be the biggest geek here, I'm enjoying Crysis 2 maxed out while monitoring cpu/gpu/ram usage.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15268157*
> TV as a monitor?


47 inch vizio.. has worked fine for me since I got it.. before this one I had a 37 inch... Anyway I was busy trying ot take the picture while these guys were at it lol I hope I can be included in the next one somehow hrmm.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268081*


mines on the way.

OT:

1 hr 40 mins!


----------



## LastBucsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15268160*
> You guys are shooting for 1000 pages before launch I see. This sucks because A: I'm out of beer B: I have to get up at 4am for work C: I'm out of beer.


I'm out of beer also. Saving my money in case I want to buy Bulldozer.









Going to go watch a movie with the wifey and hopefully check back at midnight to see if there's any news.


----------



## yukon




----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15268148*
> some of us who are the children of alcoholics dont drink but CHEERS


Oh well... it doesnt need to be alcohol








We allready have Powerade and Milk !
So you're welcome woth your coke









Keep the screen chain flowing !










OT: at this point there is really no point in doing anything else.
I hope those screens get a special thread of there own








Its, so to say, our little tribute of celebrating the upcoming Dozer NDA lift


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

GG Pizzaman


----------



## whitekidney

Also I see xd_1771 has arrived, please do not trash the launchparty by deleting posts, please let this happen, just tonight!


----------



## willibj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth;15268221*
> I think his gf/wife should get the +Rep for being willing.


Wish I had a gf/wife who was that awesome.

Wish I had one at all









[revenge of the nerds style geek stereotype perpetuated]

[not really applicable, as we all know, but still fun regardless]


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268239*
> Also I see xd_1771 has arrived, please do not trash the launchparty by deleting posts, please let this happen, just tonight!


Must hit level 1000, though theres a thread on yellow bullet.com that has over 2million views IIRC. but its not work safe so I can't link it here !!! lots of beautiful ladies !


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15268235*
> GG Pizzaman


I'd rather have one big monitor than 3 little ones in an awkward setting.. I've never tried finity before but it doesnt look like my cup of tea.. I can see the whites of my enemies eyes when im sniping them on BF BC2 ... Im not any good but it looks very BIG... and of course

Pizzaman's sister/cousin/wife/mother's boob looked bigger than life


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268239*
> Also I see xd_1771 has arrived, please do not trash the launchparty by deleting posts, please let this happen, just tonight!


doh

maybe a simple










might do the trick


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15268260*
> I'd rather have one big monitor than 3 little ones in an awkward setting.. I've never tried finity before but it doesnt look like my cup of tea.. I can see the whites of my enemies eyes when im sniping them on BF BC2 ... Im not any good but it looks very BIG... and of course
> 
> Pizzaman's sister/cousin/wife/mother's boob looked bigger than life


3 monitors was the best money I ever spent.
besides that hooker.


----------



## AMDrocks

Omg this is the most i have laughed in ages!!!!


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15268273*
> 3 monitors was the best money I ever spent.
> besides that hooker.


that made me laugh... + rep


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268239*
> Also I see xd_1771 has arrived, please do not trash the launchparty by deleting posts, please let this happen, just tonight!


with a cherry on top?

I'll throw in some whipped topping too!


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PizzaMan;15268159*


/Jelly.


----------



## yukon




----------



## Nocturin

*183* and counting!

pizzaman's post drew in some flies!


----------



## yukon




----------



## SCollins

I think pizzamans boobies he's holding is a healthy C, its a nice boobies.


----------



## AMDrocks

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 187 (72 members and 115 guests)
AMDrocks, 855211, Addict1973, AloiWheelz, AMD_Freak, Amor, bennylol, Blackops_2, Blitz6804, bluepiglet, Bowser, BrEnKeR, Buckaroo, Chico212, Chuckclc, Chunky_Chimp, cokezone, conzilla, Da1Nonly, dalastbmills, Darkpriest667, davieg, diablo805, Diber, eggs2see, el gappo, Erick, Fr0sty, gurusan, HAF_wit, hokiealumnus, HunterAMG, Jtchal, Jtvd78, Junkboy, Kazumi, knunez, LastBucsfan, Loxxy, MFLucky, Mikecdm, Morrtin, MountainDewMadOScar, mystikalrush, Nocturin, Nooooob, Obakemono, oceanlyner, PizzaMan, Prox, proximo, QuackPot, raisethe3, redhat_ownage, Redwoodz, rubicsphere, Schmuckley, SCollins, Scorpion87, Seronx, Shiftstealth, snuttfaxkax, soth7676, SteveMcQueen, StraightSixZ, SuperRipped, tjwurzburger, torsp, ValSidalv21, Vispor, whitekidney, yukon

PizzaMan what have you done!!!


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268239*
> Also I see xd_1771 has arrived, please do not trash the launchparty by deleting posts, please let this happen, just tonight!


You guys don't break the rules, we don't have to go deleting stuff. Got it?


----------



## willibj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15268293*


hahahahahahahaha.

Tide goes in, tide goes out ...


----------



## yukon

missing bulldozer


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268315*
> You guys don't break the rules, we don't have to go deleting stuff. Got it?


we werent breaking the rules before when every post we were making was deleted?  got it?

Also I believe those arent real boobs.. They are AMD bulldozer box stuffing inside a bra on a man. Which is still a neat visual trick


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268315*
> You guys don't break the rules, we don't have to go deleting stuff. Got it?


*reads ToS real quick*







:lachen:


----------



## xd_1771

^








**Debates whether to continue the chain with DOUBLE WATER BOTTLES!**

Okay, I have absolutely forgot how many hours we have until the launch


----------



## whitekidney

Ouch pizza..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268315*
> You guys don't break the rules, we don't have to go deleting stuff. Got it?


Oh I was referring to the.. most offtopic posts ever.
A launch party is a launch party, mods, join in!


----------



## Chuckclc

Nm


----------



## yukon

been there

done that


----------



## soth7676

Hmmmm pizzamans pic and the talk of naked gaming on the online deals section....God I think I am falling in love with OCN again..... *laughs*

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## SCollins

that leak has been around all day. The results are weird.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268339*
> ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **Debates whether to continue the chain with DOUBLE WATER BOTTLES!**
> 
> Okay, I have absolutely forgot how many hours we have until the launch


i might just go recruit my wife before she heads to bed tonight and show you some double water bottles!






























2.5 hrs!

woot!

ya, I'm amped. Don't care what BD performs like, gonna babysit this thread like it's a newborn to have some fun!


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268339*
> ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **Debates whether to continue the chain with DOUBLE WATER BOTTLES!**
> 
> Okay, I have absolutely forgot how many hours we have until the launch


Still waiting for THAT pic !


----------



## jackeyjoe

I wanna join in but people keep on posting unconfirmed BD articles that I have to delete!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268391*
> I wanna join in but people keep on posting unconfirmed BD articles that I have to delete!


where ?


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268308*
> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 187 (72 members and 115 guests)
> AMDrocks, 855211, Addict1973, AloiWheelz, AMD_Freak, Amor, bennylol, Blackops_2, Blitz6804, bluepiglet, Bowser, BrEnKeR, Buckaroo, Chico212, Chuckclc, Chunky_Chimp, cokezone, conzilla, Da1Nonly, dalastbmills, Darkpriest667, davieg, diablo805, Diber, eggs2see, el gappo, Erick, Fr0sty, gurusan, HAF_wit, hokiealumnus, HunterAMG, Jtchal, Jtvd78, Junkboy, Kazumi, knunez, LastBucsfan, Loxxy, MFLucky, Mikecdm, Morrtin, MountainDewMadOScar, mystikalrush, Nocturin, Nooooob, Obakemono, oceanlyner, PizzaMan, Prox, proximo, QuackPot, raisethe3, redhat_ownage, Redwoodz, rubicsphere, Schmuckley, SCollins, Scorpion87, Seronx, Shiftstealth, snuttfaxkax, soth7676, SteveMcQueen, StraightSixZ, SuperRipped, tjwurzburger, torsp, ValSidalv21, Vispor, whitekidney, yukon
> 
> PizzaMan what have you done!!!


eh..i'm always viewing this thread..


----------



## yukon

beat that dozer.. in yao face


----------



## Diber

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15268335*
> Also I believe those arent real boobs.. They are AMD bulldozer box stuffing inside a bra on a man. Which is still a neat visual trick


Hmmm, That's one hell of a marketing trick......

Where do I sign up?!

[EDIT] Dear Yukon...










Sincerely, Bulldozer.


----------



## SteveMcQueen

I didnt post anything unconfirmed, nor any articles. just pictures ;D


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15268386*
> that leak has been around all day. The results are weird.


soon. soon. *crosses fingers*

It's been a long day.

eek. keep up the scene through's people, i want my kind contribution to be relevant when i get off of work!

edit: 199 and counting! heylo mods!

Nocturin, 2010rig, 5entinel, 855211, 996gt2, a pet rock, Addict1973, AMDrocks, AMD_Freak, Amor, BallaTheFeared, BeardedJesus, bennylol, Blackops_2, Blitz6804, Bowser, BrEnKeR, Buckaroo, bullet_101, CerealKillah, Chico212, Chuckclc, cokezone, Da1Nonly, dalastbmills, Darkpriest667, davieg, derpy_hooves, diablo805, Diber, Don Karnage, eggs2see, el gappo, ElectroGeek007, FLCLimax, FtW 420, gurusan, HAF_wit, hokiealumnus, HunterAMG, jackeyjoe, Jtchal, Junkboy, kevink82, knunez, Loxxy, MadGoat, matty0610, MFLucky, Morrtin, MountainDewMadOScar, mystikalrush, Nooooob, p-saurus, pioneerisloud, PizzaMan, Prox, QuackPot, radaja, Rebelord, redhat_ownage, rijaxo, rubicsphere, Sainesk, Schmuckley, Scorpion87, Seronx, SSJVegeta, SteveMcQueen, StraightSixZ, TheRockMonsi, tjwurzburger, torsp, Turbo16, ValSidalv21, whitekidney, willibj, XtremeCuztoms, yesitsmario, yukon


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268391*
> I wanna join in but people keep on posting unconfirmed BD articles that I have to delete!


1. Make the pic.
2. Post it.
3. Delete afterwards.
4. ???
5. Profit (in this case some more amusement for OCN)


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15268403*
> where ?


I deleted them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;15268418*
> 1. Make the pic.
> 2. Post it.
> 3. Delete afterwards.
> 4. ???
> 5. Profit (in this case some more amusement for OCN)


I might... I'm working on an assignment too and it's 11am, not exactly alcohol drinking time


----------



## AMDrocks

This is the longest day ever...


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268422*
> i deleted them


countertroll


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268422*
> I deleted them


Moderator at work. =P


----------



## SSJVegeta

If Bulldozer is good, I'm feeding it a pizza!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268427*
> This is the longest day ever...


Nah, it wasn't bad. I was waiting all day for a 2x4gb kit of memory I got off newegg last week.

The longest days are when the important parts are coming and you refresh the tracking page all day, even after it says "out for delivery".


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15268334*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missing bulldozer


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268427*
> This is the longest day ever...


just a few more hours







listening to music in the meantime


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15268430*
> countertroll


+1

I know I've been a pain today - sorry!

keep on keeping on!


----------



## TiFFman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15268444*
> Nah, it wasn't bad. I was waiting all day for a 2x4gb kit of memory I got off newegg last week.
> 
> The longest days are when the important parts are coming and you refresh the tracking page all day, even after it says "out for delivery".


Haha I can say that I do that whenever I get something from newegg







. I start to get depressed when it's way later and I still haven't got it. Last package came at 9:30 at night, that was a long day.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268447*
> just a few more hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> listening to music in the meantime


Lol, Same here, Wat you listening too?

Me listening to ELO.


----------



## TheRockMonsi

Dang, this Bulldozer launch has people excited, and now I'm excited.









Can't wait!


----------



## pioneerisloud

What have I walked into here....









<< Pretends he didn't see Pizzaman's picture and walks away.....

We're all for having a little pre launch party guys, no worries. Just keep the nonsense out (trolling, personal attacks, and unconfirmed sources).


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268457*
> Lol, Same here, Wat you listening too?
> 
> Me listening to ELO.


Really ??? ELO ?? I'd rather be stabbed in the eye with a dull spoon.


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268457*
> Lol, Same here, Wat you listening too?
> 
> Me listening to ELO.


underground jazz hop









screw mainstream pop and rap it's just stupid smh what music has come to


----------



## kevink82

Guys at aria pc posted his preview, he was the one that said good things bout bulldozer before when he had a meeting with AMD people, well his preview pretty much in line with everyone else so far...


----------



## nenad

I frekin' fell in LOVE with OCN!!!








Pizzaman is my hero! We want MOAR!!!


----------



## reflex99

launch goddammit


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15268444*
> Nah, it wasn't bad. I was waiting all day for a 2x4gb kit of memory I got off newegg last week.
> 
> The longest days are when the important parts are coming and you refresh the tracking page all day, even after it says "out for delivery".


the longest days are when your sitting at work for 12+ hours and you miss the UPS guy


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Listening to Blind Guardian.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268446*


lolz.. cable management wasn't my strong suit.. ha ha


----------



## xd_1771

The box art is absolutely sexy.... WANT
*Tries to outsource funding through various methods...*


----------



## radaja

wow pizzaman can post a boob squeeze, but my little keyboard charactor shaped female figure gets deleted? plus my aunt/uncle link from a couple of days agao.somethings not right in BD land tonight i think


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268493*
> underground jazz hop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> screw mainstream pop and rap it's just stupid smh what music has come to


Santana ATM, was with atreyu and the glitch mod earlier







.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diber;15268414*
> Hmmm, That's one hell of a marketing trick......
> 
> Where do I sign up?!
> 
> [EDIT] Dear Yukon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely, Bulldozer.


mines a dead give away what is that??


----------



## dalastbmills

It is hard to keep up with this post while at work on my iPhone. Everytime I think I'm on the last page BAM!!!!! There magically several more.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dalastbmills;15268559*
> It is hard to keep up with this post while at work on my iPhone. Everytime I think I'm on the last page BAM!!!!! There magically several more.


BAM! 10 more pages to read through its like people are all hyped up for something that might not happen!


----------



## lordikon

I'm crossing my fingers that Bulldozer brings some good competition to the table, last time AMD had the lead over Intel was a great time to be a consumer. Lots of choices, better prices, and the CPU companies releasing new and better stuff as often as they can.

However, either way it'll just be good to finally have benchmarks so we can end the 5 years of just talking about how good it could be.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15268148*
> some of us who are the children of alcoholics dont drink but CHEERS


This.


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15268551*
> Santana ATM, was with atreyu and the glitch mod earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


what?


----------



## dalastbmills

Hey Yukon, what are your temps like with that h50?

I had issues with an h60 with my 955 so I returned it and got an h80.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

wow so many green names, more green names than gray..


----------



## whitekidney

nooooooooooooo a mod broke the chain, deleted all the pics!








that means... BUMPING WITH CHAIN!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15268584*
> wow so many green names, more green names than gray..


What do you expect, with the release so incredibly close? We have to keep you gray guys in line.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15268600*
> What do you expect, with the release so incredibly close? We have to keep you gray guys in line.


Everyone but me right?


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dalastbmills;15268583*
> Hey Yukon, what are your temps like with that h50?
> 
> I had issues with an h60 with my 955 so I returned it and got an h80.


depends on the clocks.. 3.9 is around 34-35 or so at idle much hotter on prime.. the fans are for the NB.. It will roast your finger without them...


----------



## Nezmen

Besides newegg, amazon, and td, are there any other places to get a new cpu quick?


----------



## Diber

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15268554*
> mines a dead give away what is that??
> 
> It's from a 30 HP bulldozer...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [EDIT] @ Nezmen
> I've got 4 monitors.... I might be the only Canadian able to sweat in the dead of winter with no furnace on.... Only while at my computer though


----------



## soth7676

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15268573*
> BAM! 10 more pages to read through its like people are all hyped up for something that might not happen!


Damn!!... Seronx going mustang and balla tempering his opinion on BD before launch.... I feel like I am in a episode of "The Twilight Zone" right now...

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nezmen;15268649*
> its almost winter, im spending my electricity money on a new cpu, im gonna need the extra heat


Lol winter.


----------



## TheRockMonsi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15268554*
> mines a dead give away what is that??


Texas FTW.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268575*
> what?


different artists/bands

_Santana
Atreyu
The Glitch Mob_ (mispelled it)

OT:
anyone going to use BD for photoshop/video editing?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15268444*
> Nah, it wasn't bad. I was waiting all day for a 2x4gb kit of memory I got off newegg last week.
> 
> The longest days are when the important parts are coming and you refresh the tracking page all day, even after it says "out for delivery".


I thought I was the only one who did that.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitekidney;15268588*
> nooooooooooooo a mod broke the chain, deleted all the pics!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that means... BUMPING WITH CHAIN!


the chain stoppeded. I'm not going to bug my wife for a cameo anymore. OCN's loss








.

Balla,

I am suprised, your like a sleeping lion.

Where's Usario? Heavy MG? Frosty? Others?

they should be here, much effort was expended on debates.

le sigh.


----------



## Vispor

Has anyone heard from JF today? I was thinking that if he is around hanging out, then BD won't be released, since he would be so busy at the AMD launch party.


----------



## willibj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15268670*
> different artists/bands
> 
> _Santana
> Atreyu
> The Glitch Mob_ (mispelled it)
> 
> OT:
> anyone going to use BD for photoshop/video editing?


Photoshop - yes. Video editing - maybe.

Atreyu were cool, I think, at some point. I saw them supported by Norma Jean ages ago. Norma Jean kicked them across the stage performance wise.


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15268670*
> different artists/bands
> 
> _Santana
> Atreyu
> The Glitch Mob_ (mispelled it)
> 
> OT:
> anyone going to use BD for photoshop/video editing?


ohhh, I knew you where talking about santana as in the band, but when you said atreyu and glitch mod I thought you where talking about a glitch moderator on this forum if that even exists or makes sense


----------



## Nezmen

haha awesome pic...

edit: well it was now its gone


----------



## dalastbmills

So what's the common opinion/rumor about the release date. There have been a few posts claiming that the processors may not even be released til the 18th. I sold my 955 setup a couple weeks ago and this wait is killing me!!!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Again, posts that violate the ToS here WILL be removed guys. So please keep that in mind. That includes nudity (even cartoon), swearing, trolling, and personal attacks.


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dalastbmills;15268728*
> So what's the common opinion/rumor about the release date. There have been a few posts claiming that the processors may not even be released til the 18th. I sold my 955 setup a couple weeks ago and this wait is killing me!!!


The fact is it's launching tomorrow.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willibj;15268711*
> Photoshop - yes. Video editing - maybe.
> 
> Atreyu were cool, I think, at some point. I saw them supported by Norma Jean ages ago. Norma Jean kicked them across the stage performance wise.


I have their album i picked up in 2004, dont know any of their music now, they gone rouge? Looked up Norma Jean, thanks for that, they are getting a listen tomorrow!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268712*
> ohhh, I knew you where talking about santana as in the band, but when you said atreyu and glitch mod I thought you where talking about a glitch moderator on this forum if that even exists or makes sense


LOL! It's ok, it's late. I misspelled, you misunderstood, quid pro quo!









2 hours! 2 HOURS! *why am I so excited, it's just a CPU for chistopher sakes.*

EDIT 215 and counting!


----------



## Vispor

Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


----------



## whitekidney

http://www.amentio.no/FX-8150-AMD/cat-p/c/p4215354.html
Look at the ETA

NOTE TO MODS: This is one of the biggest retailers in Norway, what publish on their shop is the real deal, this is more or less confirmed.

Also the price:
1943 Norwegian kroner = 341.956342 U.S. dollars
(Yeah I know, expensive in Norway!)


----------



## Dmac73

inb4paperlaunch


----------



## Scorpion87

Why didnt you just move the pic chain into an new offtopic thread ? *sad*


----------



## xd_1771

Tomorrow 12AM Central. Which is 10PM Pacific tonight








Or so I heard... >_>


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268703*
> Has anyone heard from JF today? I was thinking that if he is around hanging out, then BD won't be released, since he would be so busy at the AMD launch party.


AMD launch party must be something else after that intel party commercial.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268797*
> tomorrow 12am central. Which is 10pm pacific tonight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or so i heard... >_>


OOPs, wrong PST XD

edit: Had the wrong pacific time


----------



## Schmuckley

isn't 12am midnight?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268779*
> Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


Athlon XP 2400+. That's not that old.







I've got a 2500+ M on its way to me.


----------



## knunez

just 2 hours until we see how this turns out.


----------



## xd_1771

^ Where do you get that figure!?
If so, that's in an hour for me and pio









The oldest desktop processor in my house is a 2.4Ghz 90nm Athlon x2, AM2 socket. All the others are dual core AM2(+) or AM3, except the HTPC which is a single core AM2, but newer. Used to have an XP-M though.


----------



## dalastbmills

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prox;15268751*
> the fact is it's launching tomorrow.


:d


----------



## Newwt

so are there for sure reviews launching at midnight?


----------



## dalastbmills

Good thing I deposited all my money in the bank before they closed XD

Newegg will be able to take a vacation after tomorrow.


----------



## ShiftedReality

this is the most viewers i have seen view this thread at one time. Also, waiting around online for reviews to pop up


----------



## Junkboy

Man even with max posts per page it's discouraging to finish two pages then another crops up......... Well here's hoping everyone is happy with the info released at launch.

Though, personally I'm really curious what we can get out of the NB, during the my PII OC time the NB oc made a bigger difference than taking my PII from 2.8 to 3.7 with a fourth core unlocked. I think the weeks ahead, with I'm sure many many bios revisions and updates, will be very interesting with people finding these chips true potential after ram speeds, ram timings, NB oc's and not just the base multiplier


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268817*
> ^ Where do you get that figure!?
> If so, that's in an hour for me and pio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The oldest desktop processor in my house is a 2.4Ghz 90nm Athlon x2, AM2 socket. All the others are dual core AM2(+) or AM3, except the HTPC which is a single core AM2, but newer. Used to have an XP-M though.


GOOD IDEA, to waste time we'll talk about the oldest processors in our house

I've been using a pentium 4 for the past few years now


----------



## Chuckclc

Where is the actual info that said the NDA lifts at midnight on the 12th? I heard from those AMD people on that live feed that BD releases this week, but they never gave a date or time. Anyone have a link to the actual info? I hope its right.


----------



## AMDrocks

The wait is killing me!!!










Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 213 (92 members and 121 guests)


----------



## dalastbmills

Im sure someone, somewhere has reviews just waiting for the public.


----------



## ShiftedReality

Oh yeah and the pic.. i used to have a 2600+ Barton CPU.. was very nice for its time and its not that old honestly.. although time does fly lol


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268817*
> ^ Where do you get that figure!?
> If so, that's in an hour for me and pio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The oldest desktop processor in my house is a *2.4Ghz 90nm Athlon x2, AM2 socket.* All the others are dual core AM2(+) or AM3, except the HTPC which is a single core AM2, but newer. Used to have an XP-M though.


thats nothing, i got one so old i can't remember the name of it!


----------



## Anti!!

AMD 3800+ semphron?

Had an older one that was only 800mhz. but i think its gone now.


----------



## dalastbmills

I have a single core, socket 939 3400+


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268857*
> GOOD IDEA, to waste time we'll talk about the oldest processors in our house
> 
> I've been using a pentium 4 for the past few years now


I have an old P4 478 CPU in my hands right now


----------



## Scorpion87

Athlon XP 1800+


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268886*
> I have an old P4 478 CPU in my hands right now


Take a photo of it!


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268779*
> Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


pssht..i'm holding an "Am5x86-p75" and yes.. i did overclock this chip..to keep up with the "new" p2s..and it did!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Wow, can some of you guys not read the code printed right on that CPU that was pictured?







Says right on it Athlon XP 2400+.


----------



## FLCLimax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268886*
> I have an old P4 478 CPU in my hands right now


typing from a Clawhammer/K8 Neo3 rig.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

My trusty 2400+ Mobile is sitting right next to me, ready to be booted. Such an awesome chip.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Here.. 8150 For $267.75


----------



## ShiftedReality

I have in a box somewhere around here several older CPU's.. nothing to put them in tho unfortunately, would be fun to one time get them running for kicks.


----------



## OcCam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268779*
> Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


yup, just gave mine away to my 8 year old nephew.

still runs great, ocs to 2200+ mhz

good times.


----------



## valvehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knunez;15268857*
> GOOD IDEA, to waste time we'll talk about the oldest processors in our house
> 
> I've been using a pentium 4 for the past few years now


I've got an NEC 8088 clone upstairs that still runs. Power on to DOS prompt in less than 10 seconds!


----------



## CerealKillah

I have a cartridge Athlon 700 out the garage. She is a beauty!

Oops, it is a 700.


----------



## xd_1771

My oldest CPU is not that old because of some particularly cheap (Craigslist) or even free (OCN, Craigslist, etc) upgrades








I wonder if 10 years in the future, the FX on Craigslist will be sort of like how the Athlon x2 often sells cheap on Craigslist today...


----------



## willibj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15268772*
> I have their album i picked up in 2004, dont know any of their music now, they gone rouge? Looked up Norma Jean, thanks for that, they are getting a listen tomorrow!


Righteo Nocturin. Here ya go:

Born of Osiris
The Human Abstract
Protest the Hero
Parkway Drive
It Dies Today
Saosin
36 Crazy Fists
As Cities Burn
Chimaira
Comeback Kid
Every Time I Die
August Burns Red
Dillinger Escape Plan
Between The Buried And Me
Maylene and the Sons of Disaster
Memphis May Fire
Underoath
Sky Eats Airplane
The Ghost Inside
The Fall of Troy
Winds of Plague

There's a fairly broad spectrum of relevant genres in that list, and I'm sure there's something new in there for ya. Enjoy


----------



## Don Karnage

I have you all beat when it comes to older processors around the house


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15268896*
> Take a photo of it!












That could be pretty much any CPU couldn't it


----------



## pioneerisloud

I've only got my sig rig for now. Got a P4 Northwood 2.2GHz in the bedroom, but that rig is dead anyway (board). That's why I'm getting the Athlon XP.


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268945*
> That could be pretty much any CPU couldn't it


indeed


----------



## soth7676

I think the old cpu in my house is a athlon +3200... in my old HP...AGP graphics card slot no less

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I feel sorry for anyone is still subscribed to this thread getting e-mail notifications.


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15268944*
> I have you all beat when it comes to older processors around the house


----------



## Chuckclc

Think I still have a 386 sx 25 or something like that in storage. Its onboard though. 4 MB of RAM on that board as well. And a DX upgarde chip or something that goes on to upgrade it. Havent saw it since 199x.

I remember when my friend got a 90mhz Intel we were like, "whoa, so fast"!!!


----------



## AMD_Freak

I have a old p90 around here someplace the last Intel I bought before the 2500K a few old cartridge AMDs around, even a 386 Cyrix or 2.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15268945*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could be pretty much any CPU couldn't it


Yeah, It could even be a FX processor!!!

Who is your supplier!!


----------



## Schmuckley

grr..wish i could find my old comp..it has a hot-rodded cyrix 133 in it!(that's what this chip came out of)


----------



## el gappo

I beat you all with cpu's from the future


----------



## xd_1771

Looks like an.... S775!?
















(brightened)


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15268990*
> I beat you all with cpu's from the future


Just had to get one for the LN2 runs, didn't you?


----------



## hokiealumnus

Pretty sure this isn't covered by our NDA!


----------



## cmgman

bulldozer is coming some sites showing benching not looking too good i7 dominating


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268999*
> Looks like an.... S775!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (brightened)





















Did I just do one better with a 1366 chip??


----------



## knunez

7:25 over here in LA....


----------



## whitekidney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15269025*
> Pretty sure this isn't covered by our NDA!


You son of a NDA.


----------



## QuackPot

My bro got rig of his old desktop a few months ago. Was an old AMD Athlon 2600+ that I used to have. Wish I'd have kept the CPU. Could have been make into a keyring or something.


----------



## willibj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmgman;15269028*
> bulldozer is coming some sites showing benching not looking too good i7 dominating


cmgman
Overclocker

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: indianapolis
Posts: 8

Rep: 0
Unique Rep: 0
Trader Rating: 0


----------



## Zero_

So it's 8 am over here...


----------



## Sickened1

Gah, i really can't decide what motherboard to get. Asus Sabertooth? MSI GD80? Gigabyte UD5/UD7?

Damn you bulldozer for all this turmoil!


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268779*
> Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


Of course, that one was made in 2004!

How about this one of mine, I was only 5 when it was manufactured







.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1;15269080*
> Gah, i really can't decide what motherboard to get. Asus Sabertooth? MSI GD80? Gigabyte UD5/UD7?
> 
> Damn you bulldozer for all this turmoil!


I got the gigabyte UD3 looks smexy! but its missing 8cores


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1;15269080*
> Gah, i really can't decide what motherboard to get. Asus Sabertooth? MSI GD80? Gigabyte UD5/UD7?
> 
> Damn you bulldozer for all this turmoil!


I am going for Asus sabertooth.

1hour and a half to go


----------



## Junkboy

Since we're talking cpus my trusty old Venice core, taken with my Fascinate.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkboy;15269131*
> Since we're talking cpus my trusty old Venice core, taken with my Fascinate.


Assembled in China wow...










Nothing against China all my AMD Chips were assembled in Malaysia


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15268813*
> Athlon XP 2400+. That's not that old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a 2500+ M on its way to me.


I was 30 when that CPU came out. I've got an 1800+,a PII,478 PIV, a Celeron all laying around here somewhere.


----------



## SCollins

What comes in the old apple 2e ?? That would be the oldest functional CPU in my house.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15267469*
> 
> The NDA comes down at midnight. I don't think we'll see chips till the 18th


did you not see the special event at ign held by amd with an amd rep saying bulldozer wont cost more then 250$ and will come this week ???


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vispor;15268779*
> Anyone old enough to remember this chip?


Thoroughbred Athlon XP 2400+. That's not _that_ old.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15268817*
> ^ Where do you get that figure!?
> If so, that's in an hour for me and pio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The oldest desktop processor in my house is a 2.4Ghz 90nm Athlon x2, AM2 socket. All the others are dual core AM2(+) or AM3, except the HTPC which is a single core AM2, but newer. Used to have an XP-M though.


Oldest chip I have is a 166Mhz (OCed to 200Mhz all its life) Pentium MMX.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15269031*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I just do one better with a 1366 chip??












Athlon XP POWAH!


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15269119*
> I am going for Asus sabertooth.
> 
> 1hour and a half to go


I support that decision


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15269090*
> Of course, that one was made in 2004!
> 
> How about this one of mine, I was only 5 when it was manufactured
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Xyro TR1

Ordered my Crosshair V Formula and 16GB of my Ripjaw X DDR3-2133 RAM.







Now just awaiting some CPU action.


----------



## ElectroGeek007

Everything is ready for BD to drop into my system and go! Anyone else going to the Cincinnati Micro Center tomorrow morning?


----------



## kevink82

Im not sure whats the last 20 pages anything to do with bulldozer including the mods comments..... and we are suppose to stay on topic? geez


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15269159*
> did you not see the special event at ign held by amd with an amd rep saying bulldozer wont cost more then 250$ and will come this week ???


Launch and paper launch are 2 different things. SB didn't really start getting shipped and readily available until a week after reviews hit.

BD is looking much worst than that as far as yields are concerned, we will just have to see.


----------



## pioneerisloud

I'm jealous of all these Athlon XP's being shown.







Wish I had that rig running already.


----------



## valvehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1;15269080*
> Gah, i really can't decide what motherboard to get. Asus Sabertooth? MSI GD80? Gigabyte UD5/UD7?


I'm leaning towards a UD7 myself. Its expandability puts my P67A-UD7 to shame, and it costs a lot less.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyro TR1;15269167*
> Ordered my Crosshair V Formula and 16GB of my Ripjaw X DDR3-2133 RAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just awaiting some CPU action.


16gb of 2133? Let's hope for a miracle IMC


----------



## Sickened1

Waiting to buy my mobo until the cpu launches. Hopefully amd will have some sort of bundle deals going on, that would be nice. If not, ill likely get the Sabertooth(even though its fugly) or the UD5


----------



## radaja

damn i just clicked a bulldozer is here thread in the amd section and guess what,he was there


----------



## allupinya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqlA9EJ4ME&feature=player_embedded#!


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15269161*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athlon XP POWAH!


It's funny because I have one of those lying around too, probably should find it and take a pic


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15269189*
> I'm jealous of all these Athlon XP's being shown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wish I had that rig running already.


I have one, but I'm using it so you can't have it.

I'm also using this beast with Chrome OS...


----------



## Junkboy

I'm really liking the way the Asrock mobos are performing, weather I go BD or just get a nice SB i5 2500k system to await IB I'll probably choose Asrock. Always like going for the underdog


----------



## Xyro TR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15269212*
> 16gb of 2133? Let's hope for a miracle IMC


If not, downclock like WHOH


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackeyjoe;15269226*
> It's funny because I have one of those lying around too, probably should find it and take a pic


What about one of these?










Pentium MMX 166Mhz.








Was a decent enough switch paired with 196MB RAM and Linux but my motherboard died.


----------



## darthjoe229

Is there an official "time" for the launch?


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15269268*
> What about one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentium MMX 166Mhz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was a decent enough switch paired with 196MB RAM and Linux but my motherboard died.


almost tops the 4870x2 keychain im about to make


----------



## Seronx

1 hr 15 mins

EDT 12:01 for Anandtech


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darthjoe229;15269282*
> Is there an official "time" for the launch?


NDA up is at midnight and launch on the 15th? or so i hear.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269283*
> almost tops the 4870x2 keychain im about to make


Haha, got this beast about ~1997, been at 200Mhz since day one until the day the board died. Who says OCing makes chips die young?


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269291*
> NDA up is at midnight and launch on the 15th? or so i hear.


more like 1hour and 15mins


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darthjoe229;15269282*
> Is there an official "time" for the launch?


Midnight Central Time

got a FX-8120 and FX-8150 sitting there waiting for me @ 9am.








Thanks MC !!


----------



## darthjoe229

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269291*
> NDA up is at midnight and launch on the 15th? or so i hear.


midnight EST?

^^nevermind


----------



## jackeyjoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15269268*
> What about one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentium MMX 166Mhz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was a decent enough switch paired with 196MB RAM and Linux but my motherboard died.


ok... that's a bit before my time







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269283*
> almost tops the 4870x2 keychain im about to make


4870X2 keychain?


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15269268*
> What about one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentium MMX 166Mhz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was a decent enough switch paired with 196MB RAM and Linux but my motherboard died.


and THIS is the chip i used to have to overclock to match..lol (amd 5x86)


----------



## AMD_Freak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15269159*
> did you not see the special event at ign held by amd with an amd rep saying bulldozer wont cost more then 250$ and will come this week ???


I seen the live feed but he never said.
In what country 250usd or 250L , 250 peso I guess that will be the price after we see the benchmarks to clear them off the shelf's to make room for other stuff


----------



## AMDrocks

What are you guys hoping to do with 8 cores??


----------



## Shatterr

All these old chips.... Makes me remember My Tandy 1000. Now that was a computer. ........


----------



## Seronx

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861

Reviews are fact


----------



## mxthunder

figured I would pull out my mobile athlon XP barton, unlocked multi!


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15269356*
> What are you guys hoping to do with 8 cores??


use with LN2..


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms;15269375*
> use with LN2..


Achieve 10GHz....


----------



## Swiftdeathz

If this has been posted already, please forgive, but HardOCP's review will go up at 11pm CST which is soonish.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861

Gameplay and Desktop performance reviews.


----------



## radaja

looks like all was true after all


----------



## Chuckclc

tell me they will have some 6100 reviews and maybe some 4100 as well. 81xx is nice, but I wanna make sure the quad and hex core FX's can beat the PHII quad and hex cores first.


----------



## matt1898

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shatterr;15269358*
> All these old chips.... Makes me remember My Tandy 1000. Now that was a computer. ........


Dude..that is ancient. That was my family's first pc....well, at least one I can remember.


----------



## Usario

So, apparently it's confirmed that the NDA will lift in an hour and seven minutes. Words cannot express my conflicting emotions: excitement, yet preparation for disappointment.

Any other reason why this thread grew 50 pages and there's 220 people viewing it?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269371*
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861
> 
> Reviews are fact


So glad [H] got samples to review.


----------



## Chico212

there is one review up online now, google it.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chico212;15269434*
> there is one review up online now, google it.


It's not considered offical, as the NDA hasn't been lifted yet. Plus its not in English anyway, so can't be linked here.


----------



## Ulric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1898;15269416*
> Dude..that is ancient. That was my family's first pc....well, at least one I can remember.


Heh. My father has a 1000 RL in the attic. I wonder if it still works...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15269425*
> So glad [H] got samples to review.


They are near the headquarters of AMD why wouldn't they get chips?


----------



## Chico212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15269439*
> It's not considered offical, as the NDA hasn't been lifted yet. Plus its not in English anyway, so can't be linked here.


thanks didnt know


----------



## -iceblade^

i just hope this isn't another phenom 1 type issue


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-iceblade^;15269450*
> i just hope this isn't another phenom 1 type issue


Oh hai icey baby.









I agree, let's hope the actual reviews show something positive.


----------



## SmasherBasher

80-100k ppd would be nice....


----------



## allupinya

so im guessing those benchies we have been seeing are fake? I just spotted a new one and it's winning!

i hope so, so i can get a chv, 8150 and aother 6970!


----------



## whitekidney

OK, I've read a review that'll be up soon.

At stock it is right between the 2500k and 2600k, when OCed, it can be compared to the 2600k.


----------



## darthjoe229

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15269356*
> What are you guys hoping to do with 8 cores??


foldfoldfoldfold


----------



## FLCLimax

saw the spanish review, ouch.

EDIT: now i'm confused...saw a review where it matches SB.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269482*
> so im guessing those benchies we have been seeing are fake? I just spotted a new one and it's winning!
> 
> i hope so, so i can get a chv, 8150 and aother 6970!


AMD's been trolling everyone....


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15269187*
> Launch and paper launch are 2 different things. SB didn't really start getting shipped and readily available until a week after reviews hit.
> 
> BD is looking much worst than that as far as yields are concerned, we will just have to see.


so you didnt see the event in question and the rep saying it clearly ... fx will be available .. what you dont get about that???

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269371*
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861
> 
> Reviews are fact


yayyy









pressing F5 every second on those links as we speak


----------



## SCollins

Still lurking


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269445*
> They are near the headquarters of AMD why wouldn't they get chips?


Do you remember Kyle's rage filled phenom II review? It wasn't pretty. I was afraid AMD would be hesitent to send him future CPU's to review.


----------



## Xyro TR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15269356*
> What are you guys hoping to do with 8 cores??


Render!


----------



## black96ws6

Okay whew, glad it was OBR and not a legit review LoL...I don't think it's THAT bad


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269539*
> Okay whew, glad it was OBR and not a legit review LoL...I don't think it's THAT bad


I am thinking someone in marketing might have accidentally allowed him to get a broken chip.


----------



## xd_1771

SA - Countdown to FX


----------



## BallaTheFeared

While we're going off topic galore, anyone else get hooked on computers from Oregon Trail, on the Apple II back in like second grade?

Pinnacle of gaming imo:










1 hour to go, which review site are you guys going to read first?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willibj;15268937*
> Righteo Nocturin. Here ya go:
> 
> Born of Osiris
> The Human Abstract
> Protest the Hero
> Parkway Drive
> It Dies Today
> Saosin
> 36 Crazy Fists
> As Cities Burn
> Chimaira
> Comeback Kid
> Every Time I Die
> August Burns Red
> Dillinger Escape Plan
> Between The Buried And Me
> Maylene and the Sons of Disaster
> Memphis May Fire
> Underoath
> Sky Eats Airplane
> The Ghost Inside
> The Fall of Troy
> Winds of Plague
> 
> There's a fairly broad spectrum of relevant genres in that list, and I'm sure there's something new in there for ya. Enjoy


Thanks I'll check those out tomorrow, spotify is my new best friend!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15269025*
> Pretty sure this isn't covered by our NDA!


what the hell is that thing, a belt buckle?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15269187*
> Launch and paper launch are 2 different things. SB didn't really start getting shipped and readily available until a week after reviews hit.
> 
> BD is looking much worst than that as far as yields are concerned, we will just have to see.


I think most of the initial yields wend to server partners like cray
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269254*
> I have one, but I'm using it so you can't have it.
> 
> I'm also using this beast with Chrome OS...


are those pins or a glued on heatsink? e gads robin!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15269405*
> looks like all was true after all


saddness, least it will be a fun thing to play with







. haven't gotten to the H things Derp linked yet, so i'm holding out my opinion till then
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15269425*
> So glad [H] got samples to review.


yay! *reads*.

two pages a 70 posts a piece popped up on my 20 min drive home. you guys are insane!

EDIT: for the record
247 (105 members and 142 guests)
Nocturin, -iceblade^, a pet rock, Addict1973, allupinya, AMDrocks, AMD_Freak, ar3f, BallaTheFeared, BeOtCh, Blackops_2, BrEnKeR, BrutusMaximus, Buckaroo, Canis-X, CerealKillah, Chico212, Chuckclc, czin125, Da1Nonly, dalastbmills, darthjoe229, dave1991, davieg, Derp, Dwood, eggs2see, ElectroGeek007, end0rphine, FLCLimax, foxrena, Fr0sty, hazarada, Heavy MG, HobieCat, hokiealumnus, HunterAMG, Iceman23, ikem, Iris, jackeyjoe, Joakitex, Jtchal, juistReet, kartcrg84, kevink82, KhaoticKomputing, knunez, KobaltRock, KyadCK, LastBucsfan, linkin93, macca_dj, MaCk-AtTaCk, Malcolm, mark4d, marsey99, matt1898, matty0610, Megacharge, MFLucky, ML241, morethantoast, Morrtin, mystikalrush, nate39, Newwt, Nezmen, OcCam, Pavix, Porter_, proximo, PyroTechNiK, QuackPot, radaja, Rebelord, rijaxo, sbraz, Schmuckley, SCollins, sequoia464, Seronx, Shatterr, Shiftstealth, Skidooer93, SmasherBasher, SSJVegeta, Swiftdeathz, tafkar, TiFFman, tpi2007, Turbo16, twistedbran, Ulric, Usario, ValSidalv21, valvehead, Vispor, whitekidney, willibj, xd_1771, XtremeCuztoms, YangerD, yesitsmario, Zero_


----------



## Chuckclc

I feel like its New Years eve or something!


----------



## black96ws6

So where are we putting the reviews? One of the mods should sticky it and then use that?


----------



## kartcrg84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15269534*
> Do you remember Kyle's rage filled phenom II review? It wasn't pretty. I was afraid AMD would be hesitent to send him future CPU's to review.


Well in that case, AMD might have to be pretty confident with Bulldozer.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15269550*
> I am thinking someone in marketing might have accidentally allowed him to get a broken chip.


I would allege it was on purpose for teh lulz, but I would be immediately shot down by JF so I won't even bother (despite that such an allegation would itself be for teh lulz).


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15269555*
> SA - Countdown to FX


SWARM CRASH WEBSITES SWARM SWARM SWARM!

J/king alot of websites are slow on my netz


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269560*
> While we're going off topic galore, anyone else get hooked on computers from Oregon Trail, on the Apple II back in like second grade?
> 
> Pinnacle of gaming imo:


Yup, was 1st grade for me. Apple II was my very first computer of my own too (same year).







Then an Apple Centris 660AV, then I got into Windows with 3.1 and a Pentium 90MHz chip (overclocked it to 120Mhz if I recall correctly).


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;15269403*
> If this has been posted already, please forgive, but HardOCP's review will go up at 11pm CST which is soonish.
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861
> 
> Gameplay and Desktop performance reviews.


Yep in 55 minutes.


----------



## Shatterr

Yep. I always lost and everyone starved to death....


----------



## kevink82

Hardocp had an AMD experience gathering before and they are pretty positive with AMD eyefinity its only natural AMD gave them samples.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15269580*
> Yup, was 1st grade for me. Apple II was my very first computer of my own too (same year).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then an Apple Centris 660AV, then I got into Windows with 3.1 and a Pentium 90MHz chip (overclocked it to 120Mhz if I recall correctly).


Commodore 64 here. My friend had an AppleIIe with dual disk drives baby!!


----------



## marsey99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269578*
> SWARM CRASH WEBSITES SWARM SWARM SWARM!
> 
> J/king alot of websites are slow on my netz


its sloooooooooooooooooow here too and mine is normally very fast :/


----------



## QuackPot

Here's a preview

http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread.php?t=82105


----------



## Usario

Apparently SA has been flooded due to the news.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15269563*
> Thanks I'll check those out tomorrow, spotify is my new best friend!
> 
> what the hell is that thing, a belt buckle?
> 
> I think most of the initial yields wend to server partners like cray
> 
> are those pins or a glued on heatsink? e gads robin!
> 
> saddness, least it will be a fun thing to play with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . haven't gotten to the H things Derp linked yet, so i'm holding out my opinion till then
> 
> yay! *reads*.
> 
> two pages a 70 posts a piece popped up on my 20 min drive home. you guys are insane!
> 
> EDIT: for the record
> 247 (105 members and 142 guests)
> Nocturin, -iceblade^, a pet rock, Addict1973, allupinya, AMDrocks, AMD_Freak, ar3f, BallaTheFeared, BeOtCh, Blackops_2, BrEnKeR, BrutusMaximus, Buckaroo, Canis-X, CerealKillah, Chico212, Chuckclc, czin125, Da1Nonly, dalastbmills, darthjoe229, dave1991, davieg, Derp, Dwood, eggs2see, ElectroGeek007, end0rphine, FLCLimax, foxrena, Fr0sty, hazarada, Heavy MG, HobieCat, hokiealumnus, HunterAMG, Iceman23, ikem, Iris, jackeyjoe, Joakitex, Jtchal, juistReet, kartcrg84, kevink82, KhaoticKomputing, knunez, KobaltRock, KyadCK, LastBucsfan, linkin93, macca_dj, MaCk-AtTaCk, Malcolm, mark4d, marsey99, matt1898, matty0610, Megacharge, MFLucky, ML241, morethantoast, Morrtin, mystikalrush, nate39, Newwt, Nezmen, OcCam, Pavix, Porter_, proximo, PyroTechNiK, QuackPot, radaja, Rebelord, rijaxo, sbraz, Schmuckley, SCollins, sequoia464, Seronx, Shatterr, Shiftstealth, Skidooer93, SmasherBasher, SSJVegeta, Swiftdeathz, tafkar, TiFFman, tpi2007, Turbo16, twistedbran, Ulric, Usario, ValSidalv21, valvehead, Vispor, whitekidney, willibj, xd_1771, XtremeCuztoms, YangerD, yesitsmario, Zero_


Yup,the Scorpius FX belt buckle.
I wonder how many Cray bought?
Woah that's a a lot of people!!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xyro TR1;15269536*
> Render!


You can render while you render!


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269601*
> Commodore 64 here. My friend had an AppleIIe with dual disk drives baby!!


Nice

I just noticed this...your a car guy...spiffy car you have for your name


----------



## hokiealumnus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15269563*
> what the hell is that thing, a belt buckle?


Sure is! AMD _is_ in Texas after all.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269560*
> While we're going off topic galore, anyone else get hooked on computers from Oregon Trail, on the Apple II back in like second grade?
> 
> Pinnacle of gaming imo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 hour to go, which review site are you guys going to read first?


there was a flash game that was an updated version of this that i played the hell out of, called caravaneer, you should check it out.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269565*
> So where are we putting the reviews? One of the mods should sticky it and then use that?


Reviews will be linked to here as they come in: http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1139571-various-amd-bulldozer-thread.html

I will take control of the first post pending approval from the poster. You can link reviews here as well but this thread may be moving even faster than the news thread.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuackPot;15269606*
> Here's a preview
> 
> http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread.php?t=82105


Moar disappoint.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15269622*
> Nice
> 
> I just noticed this...your a car guy...spiffy car you have for your name


Thanks! That was a little while back, never dropped the name.

But yes, definitely into fast cars


----------



## allupinya

4.8-5.0 on air, maybe 5.3-5.5+ on a nice h2o setup?


----------



## marsey99

idk if anybody has posted it but you can pre order them in the uk now, they are live on a few sites and is about the cheapest.

stock is meant to be in on the 24th.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;15269641*
> Reviews will be linked to here as they come in: http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1139571-various-amd-bulldozer-thread.html
> 
> I will take control of the first post pending approval from the poster. You can link reviews here as well but this thread may be moving even faster than the news thread.


Gotcha, thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swiftdeathz;15269403*
> if this has been posted already, please forgive, but hardocp's review will go up at 11pm cst which is soonish.
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861
> 
> gameplay and desktop performance reviews.


spamming the f5 button! F5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Seronx

40 mins till the world gets divided by 0


----------



## hazarada

its 49 actually


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Any word on voltage tolerances from AMD on this 32nm chip?


----------



## Addict1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269571*
> I would allege it was on purpose for teh lulz, but I would be immediately shot down by JF so I won't even bother (despite that such an allegation would itself be for teh lulz).


I swear I read it on here somewhere before that this did happen....... where? And who said it escapes me????

I have a feeling these next couple of days will be good ones for AMD and the enthusiast community!


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269688*
> Any word on voltage tolerances from AMD on this 32nm chip?


I see a 4.8ghz 8150 @ 1.5v


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazarada;15269685*
> its 49 actually


We are going to have 8 minutes of twilight


----------



## AMD_Freak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15269563*
> what the hell is that thing, a belt buckle?
> 
> _


yes cuz your Donkey will be dragging after you see the reviews and test


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269610*
> Apparently SA has been flooded due to the news.


Yeah SA isn't working for me either.


----------



## SCollins

As for desireable old chips, eh hem, I have a pile of these and they all work !!!


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marsey99;15269665*
> idk if anybody has posted it but you can pre order them in the uk now, they are live on a few sites and is about the cheapest.
> 
> stock is meant to be in on the 24th.


From what I heard, Aria are opening all the FX CPUs (or just 8150) to find the ones that overclock the best and sell them for a premium...

I ain't buying used and tested CPUs...










EDIT: Looks like I'm right: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Processors/AMD+Bulldozer+FX/AMD+Bulldozer+FX-8150+3.60GHz+%40+4.80GHz+Socket+AM3%2B+Overclocked+Processor+-+OEM+?productId=46837


----------



## ar3f

For those waiting the midnight:

To fix some minor issues with the FX architecture, AMD petitioned US Congress to move Daylight Saving time from November 6 to October 11th (tonight)... so, NDA will expire at 1:00 AM!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15269620*
> Yup,the Scorpius FX belt buckle.
> I wonder how many Cray bought?
> Woah that's a a lot of people!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can render while you render!


layerz on your layerz homie. I heard crays order was 10000+. that's a hell of a margin 0.0
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hokiealumnus;15269632*
> Sure is! AMD _is_ in Texas after all.


do want! my dickies belt-buckle is growing long in the tooth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269655*
> Moar disappoint.


oh noes







. why dissapoint? I'm not reading anything till midnight out of principal... and i want to step outside for a smoke...


----------



## xd_1771

If I'm not mistaken, a representative from Nordic Hardware posted not too long ago that the FX processors were easily hitting over 5Ghz on air.

I could pot up pictures of several S478 Cellys I have sitting unused. Also had some older S370 Celerons (733Mhz, 1.1Ghz) but I recently gave those away.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Yeah that's what got me wondering, hopefully it does better in legit reviews, it's actually about equal to an i5-2500k clock for clock there.


----------



## el gappo

FX fiddy five


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15269669*
> spamming the f5 button! F5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5!!!!!!!!!


CMD+R for a loser WINNER like me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269674*
> 40 mins till the world gets divided by 0


The calculator says this is impossible.

Now I wonder:

Is Bulldozer's failure impossible?

Or is its success impossible?

Based on what you said, I'm hoping it's the latter.


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;15269735*
> If I'm not mistaken, a representative from Nordic Hardware posted not too long ago that the FX processors were easily hitting over 5Ghz on air.


so maybe 6ghz on cold water, you think? I may scrap another 6970 to get a 1/4 water chiller.


----------



## TheRockMonsi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269674*
> 40 mins till the world gets divided by 0


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD_Freak;15269717*
> yes cuz your Donkey will be dragging after you see the reviews and test


love it!

gator too!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269756*
> so maybe 6ghz on cold water, you think? I may scrap another 6970 to get a 1/4 water chiller.


At some point it's going to be voltage limited for 24/7 usage.

1.5v through 32nm is a bit rich, but who knows what AMD will have to say about it.


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15269723*
> From what I heard, Aria are opening all the FX CPUs (or just 8150) to find the ones that overclock the best and sell them for a premium...
> 
> I ain't buying used and tested CPUs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Looks like I'm right: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Processors/AMD+Bulldozer+FX/AMD+Bulldozer+FX-8150+3.60GHz+%40+4.80GHz+Socket+AM3%2B+Overclocked+Processor+-+OEM+?productId=46837


Surely they can't sell opened products as new?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269772*
> At some point it's going to be voltage limited for 24/7 usage.
> 
> 1.5v through 32nm is a bit rich, but who knows what AMD will have to say about it.


AMD put 2.1v through some BDs and apparently they lived (under LN2 or maybe LHe of course), so I think it's safe to say BD has a high voltage tolerance.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15269738*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX fiddy five


4.9?!?!?! what cooling?


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269782*
> AMD put 2.1v through some BDs and apparently they lived (under LN2 or maybe LHe of course), so I think it's safe to say BD has a high voltage tolerance.


think i read that somewhere, but that's really awesome.

on another note i need a raise for phase change =[


----------



## hazarada

i would get popcorn at this point but i dont have any :/


----------



## marsey99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15269723*
> From what I heard, Aria are opening all the FX CPUs (or just 8150) to find the ones that overclock the best and sell them for a premium...
> 
> I ain't buying used and tested CPUs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Looks like I'm right: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/CPUs+%2F+Processors/AMD+Bulldozer+FX/AMD+Bulldozer+FX-8150+3.60GHz+%40+4.80GHz+Socket+AM3%2B+Overclocked+Processor+-+OEM+?productId=46837


ocuk do the same with oem mate, not that they test them as they will all hit the same speeds lol

they did it with other cpu too if you was following the hardware market.

retail fx chips are in sealed tins mate, maybe you could use one of those as a hat?


----------



## gplnpsb

I'm staying up for the legit high-resolution die shot. It's becoming my desktop wallpaper at 12:01.


----------



## allupinya

so what happens if it fails? we go to sleep?


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15269784*
> 4.9?!?!?! what cooling?


stock


----------



## BlackFox1337

so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


----------



## bstm400

I've been waiting too long for this launch. First July, then September 21rst, and now October 12th. Please release the official reviews before I go crazy







. Since I do meditation every night, tonight will start like this "there is no bulldozer...there is no bulldozer..."


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gplnpsb;15269797*
> i'm staying up for the legit high-resolution die shot. It's becoming my desktop wallpaper at 12:01.


/\
this x 9000!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackFox1337;15269811*
> so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


Yeah OBR and I bet he get a really crappy broken chip to with a bad bios and crappy microcode. LOL


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269806*
> so what happens if it fails? we go to sleep?


My brain wouldn't accept it for a few minutes, then I would dejectedly go to sleep


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269782*
> AMD put 2.1v through some BDs and apparently they lived (under LN2 or maybe LHe of course), so I think it's safe to say BD has a high voltage tolerance.


You mean at less than -180 degrees?

They also killed chips/boards... LN2 cpu validations are a far cry for determining 24/7 voltages on typical cooling...


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15269815*
> Yeah OBR and I bet he get a really crappy broken chip to with a bad bios and crappy microcode. LOL


Hopefully if that's true, that's for the entire system. I seriously doubt that's for just the chip!!


----------



## bstm400

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackFox1337;15269811*
> so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


It almost makes me want to wait until the more power efficient versions of bulldozer come out.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15269815*
> Yeah OBR and I bet he get a really crappy broken chip to with a bad bios and crappy microcode. LOL


He has a newer chip

39th week of 2011


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackFox1337;15269811*
> so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


For a system, maybe.


----------



## swindle

Suicide is the only option i'm afraid.


----------



## nenad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269806*
> so what happens if it fails? we go to sleep?


We go to sleep either way.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269820*
> You mean at less than -180 degrees?
> 
> They also killed a ton of chips... LN2 cpu validations are a far cry for determining 24/7 voltages on typical cooling...


I didn't see any mention of "a ton of chips" in the ocn coverage of the WR attempt.


----------



## proximo

I've got a huge library of video to encode for an Apple TV2. The more fast cores, the merrier.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15269356*
> What are you guys hoping to do with 8 cores??


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15269832*
> Suicide is the only option i'm afraid.


No, We cause civil disobedience!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269827*
> He has a newer chip
> 
> 39th week of 2011


So he claims.


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nenad;15269834*
> We go to sleep either way.


negative, if it doesn't fail i probably wont sleep. well eventually, but im sure the first hour or two will be dedicated to blue printing another new build.

i know im not the only one


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15269853*
> So he claims.












but he has photoshopped before


----------



## bstm400

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269847*
> No, We cause civil disobedience!


It's time to start an occupy amd movement. We don't move from AMD's U.S. headquarters grounds until the official reviews come out.


----------



## Xyro TR1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269806*
> so what happens if it fails? we go to sleep?


I hit the "Cancel Order!" button on my Mobo and RAM and order i7 SB instead.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackFox1337;15269811*
> so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


LOL somehow that doesn't seem right...


----------



## knunez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269855*
> negative, if it doesn't fail i probably wont sleep. well eventually, but im sure the first hour or two will be dedicated to blue printing another new build.
> 
> i know im not the only one


I'll be going over the parts that I havn't bought for my build yet to

currently I have: 990 fxa ud3 mobo from gigabyte
gtx 560 ti twin frozr II
HAF 912 case
Hyper N520 cpu cooler
windows 7 64 bit home premium
I still have a little to go, but after I buy the PSU and CPU, its all downhill form there


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackFox1337;15269811*
> so i noticed that one of the reviews says the 8150 @ 4.8Ghz consumes 345W of power at load!!!


that cpu's too energy efficient and green,

bring on the version that runs on gas...


----------



## ikem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15269738*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX fiddy five


O_O whats that in the back ground....


----------



## Seronx

Must reach over 1000!!!!

32 mins


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15269835*
> I didn't see any mention of "a ton of chips" in the ocn coverage of the WR attempt.


Must have missed the trays, and their pre testing several chips for low stock vid for "best chance" chips since you get extreme degrading at those clocks/voltages, the wr chip for instance will never see those frequencies again.

Here's a comment from the amd blog post:


----------



## allupinya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikem;15269878*
> O_O whats that in the back ground....


nice observation, someone's obviously holding out lol


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269860*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but he has photoshopped before


I am a bit interested in the disruption in the thumbprint, and the lack of a stepping indication.I've never much paid attention to the markings on AMD/Intel CPU's I buy genuine so I rarely look and since I don't OC very much if ever. Its not like I am looking for a particular lot number. I still don't see a indication of stepping ????


----------



## Flippy125

~1230 posts to reach page 100. We can do this in half an hour. GO GO GO!


----------



## black96ws6

Can we talk about the benches in the official thread that's stickied on here? Or do we have to wait until 11pm CST?


----------



## PizzaMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269890*
> nice observation, someone's obviously holding out lol


Yea, the boob distracted everyone earlier.


----------



## Seronx

I bet if someone started a Haswell thread it would never get this big


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269772*
> At some point it's going to be voltage limited for 24/7 usage.
> 
> 1.5v through 32nm is a bit rich, but who knows what AMD will have to say about it.


Who knows though, Intel 32nm can handle voltages nearly as well as their 45nm and AMD 45nm can handle voltages equally to Intel 65nm.


----------



## bstm400

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269880*
> Must reach over 1000!!!!
> 
> 32 mins


Nevaaaa!!!!!!







. God, I didn't realize everyone else was anxiously awaiting this. I feel like we need to have an AMD party but let's do it windows 7 style!!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cX4t5-YpHQ[/ame]

Anybody? Come on?


----------



## black96ws6

Let me rephrase that, can we talk about the benches linked in the other thread, here in this thread?


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bstm400;15269864*
> It's time to start an occupy amd movement. We don't move from AMD's U.S. headquarters grounds until the official reviews come out.


If Bulldozer fails, we will start a movement.

Occupy AMD.

Then Anonymous will join along and fail at DDoSing them.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikem;15269878*
> O_O whats that in the back ground....


That would appear to be a fx8150 was found.


----------



## black96ws6

Not the OBR one obviously, but the 2nd one? Zeros or something?


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269913*
> Can we talk about the benches in the official thread that's stickied on here? Or do we have to wait until 11pm CST?


Mods don't want us breaking NDA even though we never signed it. I think AMD got on them for fake benchies


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269932*
> Let me rephrase that, can we talk about the benches linked in the other thread, here in this thread?


If you wish. The benchmarks aren't official though if I'm not mistaken. Not 100% for sure at this point, some reviewers might leak them early, since NDA is up very soon anyway.

EDIT:
Yes, it seems they've got those stupid OBR ones up on the News thread.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269932*
> Let me rephrase that, can we talk about the benches linked in the other thread, here in this thread?


http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1139571-official-amd-bulldozer-reviews-thread.html talk here


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15269887*
> Must have missed the trays, and their pre testing several chips for low stock vid for "best chance" chips since you get extreme degrading at those clocks/voltages, the wr chip for instance will never see those frequencies again.
> 
> Here's a comment from the amd blog post:


Can you link that article/post?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269739*
> CMD+R for a loser WINNER like me.
> 
> The calculator says this is impossible.
> 
> Now I wonder:
> 
> Is Bulldozer's failure impossible?
> 
> Or is its success impossible?
> 
> Based on what you said, I'm hoping it's the latter.


Based on the reviews I've seen from this thread;http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1139571-official-amd-bulldozer-reviews-thread-3.html
Oh wait I can't say anything yet.
Command+refresh. LIKE A BOSS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15269738*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX fiddy five


*DO WANT!!!!!*


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flippy125;15269944*
> Mods don't want us breaking NDA even though we never signed it. I think AMD got on them for fake benchies


Or they got sick of everyone assuming they're real when they all show completely different performance levels.
I think some are real, but with a bugged/non-final BIOS release.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15269949*
> Can you link that article/post?


http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/09/09/guinness/


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15269949*
> Can you link that article/post?


http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/09/09/guinness/


----------



## black96ws6

Ok thanks. What does everyone think of that 2nd one from oZeroes? It seems to show the same thing the 8120 reviews I had the Russians do earlier...did you look at the SuperPi 1M performance? It's slower than a Thuban, yet 300mhz higher speed...


----------



## StarDestroyer

so its 0100 NL time, has BD released yet , or NDA lifted???


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15269955*
> Or they got sick of everyone assuming they're real when they all show completely different performance levels.
> I think some are real, but with a bugged/non-final BIOS release.


True, I'm just trying to start a non-troll conversation so we can hit 1k in a decent manner. Watch mods troll us and lock at page 999


----------



## dalastbmills

brought my laptop to work so I can get these reviews ASAP =]

took too long on my iphone lulz


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15269959*
> Ok thanks. What does everyone think of that 2nd one from oZeroes? It seems to show the same thing the 8120 reviews I had the Russians do earlier...did you look at the SuperPi 1M performance? It's slower than a Thuban, yet 300mhz higher speed...


If true, this is AMD's NetBurst.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer;15269965*
> so its 0100 NL time, has BD released yet , or NDA lifted???


Supposedly not for another 25 minutes.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allupinya;15269806*
> so what happens if it fails? we go to sleep?


of course not ... we blog about it on ocn
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15269847*
> No, We cause civil disobedience!


#londonriot

still too soon??

LOL


----------



## sbraz

hmm a cpu showdown? can i join? i have quite a collection here.

this is the oldest x86 i have here, from amd. i still have some ram and a disk controller but no isa-bus vga... maybe one day i'll make it boot a linux kernel while burning it. very voodoo, very.










more clutter, from top left: celeron mendocino 466MHz, athlon xp thoro 2200MHz (cracked core, not my fault), athlon thunderbird 1300MHz, duron 700, cyrix 686 133MHz, pentium 120MHz (destroyed, my fault)... and a pentium4 northwood 2.8GHz on top (cracked pins, not my fault).










not in photo/missing:

an athlon xp palomino 1800+, inside a friend's (dead) computer.
a pentium 233 mmx in a desktop i have lying around here
an athlon xp-m barton 2600+, in my current desktop pc (this needs a replacement).
a pentium2 350MHz, currently at a friend's office (seriously... not my fault).
a 486 33mhz i have inside an ancient olivetti computer here.
a 2ghz something P4 something from my brother's old pc

sold:
pentium 133 to a friend
athlon thunderbird 1333 hand exchange
pentium 3 550MHz katmai online
pentium 3 600E coppermine to a friend (here in my room atm)
celeron 700MHz coppermine to a friend

i'm sure i've forgotten something...

what about now? will these new 8-core FX cpus be enough for me? more in a few.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15269974*
> Supposedly not for another 25 minutes.


Thatsgood, because I got about 25 minutes left on Arena 2011.


----------



## h0thead132

TO MINECRAFT TO WASTE 23 MINUTES! lol


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15269976*
> of course not ... we blog about it on ocn
> 
> #londonriot
> 
> still too soon??
> 
> LOL


#Occupyaustin


----------



## black96ws6

I could be playing Counterstrike Source or Plants vs Zombies right now, yet somehow I am strangely drawn here LoL


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15269738*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX fiddy five


Could this be against NDA ?


----------



## SSJVegeta

I may go and water some plants for 20 minutes


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15269935*
> If Bulldozer fails, we will start a movement.
> 
> Occupy AMD.
> 
> *Then Anonymous will join along and fail at DDoSing them*.

































Good to have you here for this anti-climatic moment!


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15269738*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX fiddy five


Thermal paste is a little too close to the edge IMO


----------



## dalastbmills

So once this NDA lifts, are they able to be sold/purchased? Or do we wait even longer for NE/TD/etc. to get them?


----------



## black96ws6

You guys may already be aware of this, but did you know HardOCP actually has TWO reviews? One for desktop, the other for gameplay?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Playing LoL, lol. lol!


----------



## Seronx

19 mins


----------



## Fr0sty

20min to finally settle the biggest debate in decades


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


19 mins


its beer thirty.


----------



## rush2049

4.9 ghz... you don't say..... what a tease


----------



## Xyro TR1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


If Bulldozer fails, we will start a movement.

Occupy AMD.

Then Anonymous will join along and fail at DDoSing them.


----------



## Junkboy

The Ozeroes review does add some truth to bios still not being ready considering that when the CPU turns on TC 2.0 the CPU actually gets slower........I don't know what to believe at this point.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


Thermal paste is a little too close to the edge IMO


That's not paste it's putty and bum lube.


----------



## black96ws6

I wonder what JF-AMD is doing right now


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

party time

  
 You Tube


----------



## Liquidpain

I will be here when this thread explodes.


----------



## motoray

So are reviews only allowed in the hardware news section?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *motoray*


So are reviews only allowed in the hardware news section?


Yes


----------



## Nocturin

i is waiting for the [h] reviews. they are normally very entertaining. 17 mins!


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


On a _sinking_ boat


Fixed


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

I cant believe its finally almost here......
wow
am i dreaming LOL


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15270056*
> I wonder what JF-AMD is doing right now


didn't he say he had a trunk full of beer this past weekend ?


----------



## wahrheitoderpflicht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15270084*
> i is waiting for the [h] reviews. they are normally very entertaining. 17 mins!


this


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15270105*
> didn't he say he had a trunk full of beer this past weekend ?


Oh yeah.







Lucky him.


----------



## marsey99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15270056*
> I wonder what JF-AMD is doing right now


we was playing cod4 about 30 minutes ago dude xD


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marsey99;15270116*
> we was playing cod4 about 30 minutes ago dude xD


On the Wii


----------



## black96ws6

I still think it was very cool of the Russian guys to let us benchmark their system. I mean how cool is that? They built the system and let us benchmark it first!


----------



## nenad

Haven't abused F5 button like this in my life...


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

this is what im going to be doing if BD IS GOOD

  
 You Tube


----------



## CrazyDiamond

10 minutes!


----------



## Tweeky

News Flash
The boat that was carrying Bulldozer chip has just been hijacked


----------



## Seronx

Oh crude I just felt a Quake, the end is nigh!!


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrazyDiamond*


10 minutes!


Your avatar matches the post


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrazyDiamond*


10 minutes!


11 you liar


----------



## CrazyDiamond

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tweeky*


Flash
The boat that was carrying Bulldozer chip has just been hijacked


Does that mean another d....


----------



## bstm400

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


You guys may already be aware of this, but did you know HardOCP actually has TWO reviews? One for desktop, the other for gameplay?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642860

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1642861


Thanks for posting the links to these







.


----------



## black96ws6

Can we post failboat pics if it flops? "Look who's arrived!" LoL I kiiid, I kiiid


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


this is what im going to be doing if BD IS GOOD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbhXmSBlS_U


putting on ray ban's and singing to an empty venue?


----------



## bstm400

Quote:



Originally Posted by *usario*


11 you liar


Lies!!! It's 10 minutes now!


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bstm400*


Thanks for posting the links to these







.


----------



## Junkboy

F it I'm gonna read some NFL news at Grantland, but when I get back there better not be a million pages for me to read............. Ugh I got to work in under an hour too looks like my Fascinate and tapatalk will have to keep me up to date on all the reviews. Well I guess this is the reason to have smartphone, to get more news about the famed Bulldozer


----------



## Kryton

This thread reminds me of the really old Heinz ketchup commercial with the "Anticipation" theme. 
Can't blame you guys for it though.

Unfortunately I won't be picking one up as I had planned earlier but will once things are right for me to do so. Until then I'll just run my 1100T and suffer...


----------



## Seronx

Does anyone realize on the Front Page of HardOCP in white text it says don't buy RAGE!!!!!


----------



## allupinya

so if you click quick links at the top -> unanswered post

you can literally just answer questions all day


----------



## Flippy125

inb4 Duke Nukem Forever failure


----------



## Darkpriest667

This was the boat carrying the bulldozer chips OOOOPS


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

holly balls less then 10min


----------



## black96ws6

I still love the YouTube video of the foreign news woman that starts busting up when she tries to say the FX Cinebench score, that still makes me laugh...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


Can we post failboat pics if it flops? "Look who's arrived!" LoL I kiiid, I kiiid










If the pictures are fitting of the performance, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to ?


----------



## black96ws6

How do you embed a youtube video? Would love to post an embed of it, it's just hilarious...


----------



## CrazyDiamond

5 minutes!!!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15270200*
> How do you embed a youtube video? Would love to post embed it again, it's just hilarious...


No, just no.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15270000*
> I could be playing Counterstrike Source or Plants vs Zombies right now, yet somehow I am strangely drawn here LoL


This is similar to the Touchpad madness when HP dumped those.


----------



## Flippy125

1150 MORE POSTS TO 1K IN 7 MINUTES AHHHH


----------



## hokiealumnus

Well folks, this thread has been real & fun (and also insane), but my inbox can only take one crazy thread at a time so I'm unsubscribing. If you have any comments or questions on the Overclockers review to which you'd like an answer, please comment/ask in the now official review thread. Thanks!!


----------



## allupinya

http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/761769.aspx

taking orders =[


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15270176*
> Does anyone realize on the Front Page of HardOCP in white text it says don't buy RAGE!!!!!


.... does this mean "Do not buy BD! RAGE!" or "do not believe in rage"?

I guess we'll know the answer in six minutes.


----------



## Nocturin

6 minutes


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


No, just no.


How about AFTER the NDA is lifted and IF BD is like what we've seen up to this point? Can I post it then? It's just hilarious!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrazyDiamond*


Does that mean another d....


dont jinx it bro


----------



## Seronx

END OF THE WORLD!
--------

  
 You Tube


----------



## Flippy125

4 MORE MINUTES!!!!!1111!!111one!!!1!!!1


----------



## ShiftedReality

Wow this thread took off.. also.. 4 minutes for HardOCP review


----------



## knunez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


.... does this mean "Do not buy BD! RAGE!" or "do not believe in rage"?

I guess we'll know the answer in six minutes.


It's talking about the game


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


How about AFTER the NDA is lifted and IF BD is like what we've seen up to this point? Can I post it then? It's just hilarious!










That video is not to be posted, as its a personal attack on JF-AMD.


----------



## Shahzad7

Less than 5 minutes!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


END OF THE WORLD!
--------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn6hhrX34Pw


Is that Howard Dean impersonated by a drag queen ?


----------



## Buckaroo

3 minutes.


----------



## black96ws6

Ah! Okay got it! I thought he would find it funny, but good point, I guess you could take that either way...


----------



## Canis-X

Inb4threadblowsup!!








<-- Sooooo excited!!! I'm sick as a dog right now and should be sleeping but too excited!!


----------



## CrazyDiamond

My clock says 1 min =O!!!


----------



## Sean Webster

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ Y U NO PERFORM WELL AMD.

I was really hoping on it being better. I wanted to upgrade my dads rig to BD and learn about overclocking it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knunez*


It's talking about the game










.... really?

I feel stupid now.


----------



## knunez

^haha 
4 mins!!!


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nenad*


Haven't abused F5 button like this in my life...










right click> reload









Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*






















Quote:



Originally Posted by *allupinya*


so if you click quick links at the top -> unanswered post

you can literally just answer questions all day


best thing to do. it helps keep me sharp on my troubleshooting skills.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


6 minutes


3 minutes


----------



## Liquidpain

3 to go. Well folks, its been real.


----------



## mystikalrush

Im scared...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


That video is not to be posted, as its a personal attack on JF-AMD.


Thats pretty weak sauce, just a bunch of internet tough guys. LOLZ.


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

the light at the end of the tunnel.....

Finally


----------



## FiX

F5'ing hard out


----------



## Kolovrat

less than 2 minutes left..... and honestly I don't expect any news or updates in that "hype subject"
tomorrow morning for sure better words will show up, but still...
and from the other side I remember that JF-AMD said that so many updates needed to complete full launch... so for me this "reviews and conclusions" will mean almost nothing.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

2 minutes...just enough time to finish making my coffee


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liquidpain*


3 to go. Well folks, its been real.


ELE asteroid ?


----------



## Prox

So close...


----------



## mark4d

well i got 500 bucks to spend i hope bd is worth the wait


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mystikalrush;15270283*
> Im scared...


You better be!!!

Hide yo wifes, Hide yo kids

Bulldozer is bustin yo windows

---
IQ levels deteriorated


----------



## Usario

1 minute!!!!!!


----------



## bstm400

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15270298*
> So close...


I can feel the bulldozer engines starting to rev up. OMG IT SOUNDS SO BEAUTIFUL!


----------



## FurryCreatures

Happy to say that I did not read ALL of the posts in this thread. But it's been fun.







Big thanks to JF-AMD for putting up with all of our crap. So when do we get a Piledriver sticky thread?


----------



## SSJVegeta

As Dunban from Xenoblade would say "The time is now!"


----------



## Liquidpain

Hold on to ur butts!!!


----------



## FiX

30 seconds?


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## linkin93

I hope BD is worth my birthday money


----------



## xd_1771

15 seconds...... oh boy, here we go


----------



## Flippy125

Less than one minutes :d:d:d:d:d


----------



## Addict1973

Bump.


----------



## Shahzad7

A single minute left. This is it guys, the moment we've been waiting for!


----------



## PyroTechNiK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liquidpain;15270313*
> Hold on to ur butts!!!


I just did, then I realized I need a shower.


----------



## Prox

inb4 disappointment.


----------



## knunez

Gotta get some food to read the reviews with real quick!!!


----------



## bstm400

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*   As Dunban from Xenoblade would say "The time is now!"  
I feel this video is appropriate for this occasion. DANCE INTO THE FIREEEE!!!!!!!!!!

  
 You Tube


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk*


Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AAAWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH


----------



## SSJVegeta

Bam!


----------



## AMDrocks

Anything?


----------



## xd_1771

It's past... nothing...


----------



## Nocturin

Its live!


----------



## Newwt

boom protein everywhere1!!!!!


----------



## -iceblade^

*fireworks*?


----------



## Liquidpain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PyroTechNiK*


I just did, then I realized I need a shower.


lol and

inb4epicflamewar


----------



## FiX

Nooo... theyre running late :/


----------



## Usario

I do not see anything on the HardOCP homepage.

It's 12:01.

I am disappoint.


----------



## yukon

were do i go to see the review


----------



## Shahzad7

Guys, give it a few minutes (~5) for the thread to be uploaded!


----------



## AMDrocks

huh


----------



## nenad

HARDOCP is LIVE!!!


----------



## pioneerisloud

http://www.overclockers.com/amd-fx-8...ocessor-review


----------



## GanjaSMK

Got a hold of a 6100 - Preliminary results are amazing.


----------



## black96ws6

"Please wait...technical difficulties"


----------



## Nocturin

For the record 12:01 on the dot:
236 (111 members and 125 guests)
Nocturin, 66racer, a pet rock, accord1999, Addict1973, Aedric, AMDrocks, anubis1127, BeOtCh, BlackFox1337, Blackops_2, breenemeister, BrEnKeR, bstm400, Buckaroo, CerealKillah, Chico212, Chuckclc, clickhere.exe, cokezone, CrazyDiamond, dalastbmills, daman246, Darkpriest667, DarkrReign2049, dave1991, Doglips, Don Karnage, DrkAce, eggs2see, erayser, evilvyse, FiX, FLCLimax, Flippy125, Fr0sty, FurryCreatures, GanjaSMK, gplnpsb, h0thead132, Heavy MG, HobieCat, HunterAMG, ieatchairs, ikem, iLLmAtiCiAn, Iris, JCPUser, JF-AMD, Joakitex, Jtchal, Junkboy, kartcrg84, knunez, Kolovrat, KyadCK, linkin93, Liquidpain, Lucky 13 SpeedShop, MaCk-AtTaCk, mark4d, marsey99, MasterCheese99, MFLucky, mica3speedy, mongoro, Morrtin, motoray, Mr.N00bLaR, mystikalrush, nenad, Newwt, Nezmen, OcCam, Pavix, Prox, QuackPot, Rebelord, reflex99, Revained Mortal, rijaxo, rubicsphere, rush2049, Sainesk, Schmuckley, SCollins, SeanWebster, sequoia464, Seronx, Shatterr, ShiftedReality, Skidooer93, smoki, snowninja88, spiderm0nkey, SSJVegeta, StraightSixZ, swindle, TiFFman, tjwurzburger, towed-under, tpi2007, Ulric, Usario, wahrheitoderpflicht, xd_1771, XtremeCuztoms, Xyro TR1, yukon, Zero_, Zrzmmrnbp


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Liveee


----------



## bstm400

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


It's past... nothing...


The reviews on Hard OCP aren't up yet Q_Q.

This one just popped up:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ormance_review


----------



## Vispor

Well?????


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *marsey99*


we was playing cod4 about 30 minutes ago dude xD


Playing COD4 with JF-AMD?
Lol I'm jealous.


----------



## BGL

zzzz


----------



## spiderm0nkey

FiX your avatar sums up this thread pretty well...


----------



## ShiftedReality

Techspot.com review is up as well


----------



## linkin93

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ormance_review

IT'S ALIVEEE!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bstm400*


I feel this video is appropriate for this occasion. DANCE INTO THE FIREEEE!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJB4yVkuVM


Haha I love that song, also reminds me of "A View To A Kill".


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

can I open my eyes yet...???


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bstm400*


The reviews on Hard OCP aren't up yet Q_Q.

This one just popped up:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ormance_review


refresh people!


----------



## spiderm0nkey

OMG It's up on [H]!!!!


----------



## Nocturin

different slides *reads*


----------



## Derp

[H] is getting hammered so hard lmao...


----------



## Seronx

IT'S HERE OH GOD MY EYES GLORIOUS AMD CPUS from after 2010!!!!


----------



## Don Karnage

No anandtech or tpu.. FORSHAME!!!!!!!


----------



## Junkboy

I noticed I haven't seen any leaks about the FX4XXX, has it been confirmed those won't be ready at launch? I'm curious because just as the PII 720 and 555 had the potential to be the best bang for buck no contest chips, the FX4XXX chips might offer an opportunity to greatness for what's shaping up like under one Benjamin.


----------



## xd_1771

Overclockers.com's up, that's where I first noticed it


----------



## ShiftedReality

http://www.techspot.com/review/452-amd-bulldozer-fx-cpus/


----------



## FiX

Site is soo slow...


----------



## Usario

The disappointment.... overwhelms me...


----------



## xd_1771

HardOCP's gone 404


----------



## bstm400

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15270388*
> refresh people!


I can't even get to page three because hard OCP is so laggy. Lol. Did 1000 people just try to view it?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK;15270363*
> Got a hold of a 6100 - Preliminary results are amazing.


You serious?
How amazing??


----------



## QuackPot

Oh dear BD, oh dear...









EDIT: HardOCP review for it doesn't do AMD and justice. Especially after the months and months of waiting.


----------



## Absauston

Quote:


> Hardocp
> What we see here in three very different IPC tests is the exact same stack when we look at the architecture scaling. Intel's Sandy Bridge showed the best IPC, with Intel's Nehalem cores coming in second, AMD's Thuban coming in third, and AMD's brand new Bulldozer architecture pulling in a distant fourth.


...


----------



## knunez

404 could not be found?


----------



## Edgemeal

Like I said , AMD press releases , 12AM Eastern Time.

Yahoo Finance
Unlock Your Record Setting AMD FX Series Processor Today

Starting today, the following AMD FX CPUs will be available from global retailers. Additional AMD FX CPUs and systems based on the AMD FX processors will be available for purchase following the initial launch.

FX-8150: Eight cores, 3.6 GHz CPU base (3.9 GHz Turbo Core, 4.2 GHz Max Turbo), $245 suggested retail price (U.S.)
FX-8120: Eight cores, 3.1 GHz CPU base (3.4 GHz Turbo Core, 4.0 GHz Max Turbo), $205 suggested retail price (U.S.)
FX-6100: Six cores, 3.3 GHz CPU base (3.6 GHz Turbo Core, 3.9 GHz Max Turbo), $165 suggested retail price (U.S.)
FX-4100: Four cores, 3.6 GHz CPU base (3.7 GHz Turbo Core, 3.8 GHz Max Turbo), $115 suggested retail price (U.S.)


----------



## Liquidpain

It CRASHED!


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


HardOCP's gone 404


Well? How do you feel about this failure?

I'm dying to know.


----------



## bstm400

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


HardOCP's gone 404


Confirmed. Maybe anonymous hit them at exactly midnight eastern.


----------



## mystikalrush

OMG the power consumption just... just... seriously... what the hell is the point in overclocking it now....


----------



## AMDPhenomX4

Techspot is up.
http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html


----------



## Usario

I'm off to rant on /g/.

Later.


----------



## Canis-X

One up here now as well...

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...=831&Itemid=63


----------



## CrazyDiamond

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...or-review.html


----------



## 2010rig

Oh my, reviews are up, where do I begin?!?!?!?!?

Official reviews thread:
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ws-thread.html


----------



## Liquidpain

WOW! Bulldozer got rocked!


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Got a hold of a 6100 - Preliminary results are amazing.











LOL

Nice try.

It's a Pentium 4, people.


----------



## Derp

FAILDOZER! Seriously, a stock 2600k beats a BD at 4.7Ghz. GG AMD.


----------



## allupinya

so how about those red sox?


----------



## xd_1771

^ Curious, what game is that?
Something like Starcraft II, I wouldn't be surprised at all.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mystikalrush;15270449*
> OMG the power consumption just... just... seriously... what the hell is the point in overclocking it now....


Yet it supposedly consumes less power than a Phenom II??


----------



## Liquidpain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15270499*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAILDOZER! Seriously, a stock 2600k beats a BD at 4.7Ghz. GG AMD.


Heck, the Phenom is giving it a run!
In some benches of course.


----------



## ShiftedReality

Seems the memory bandwidth isnt much better either.. this looks like a phenom 1 fiasco again, so that means piledriver should be what bulldozer was meant to be.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Ivy bridge is mine!!!


----------



## 2010rig

Can anyone confirm right off the bat, before I delve into these reviews, if that magical BIOS is being used?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Remember guys, the power consumption is usually going to be full system draw at the wall, not the draw of the CPU itself.

And gaming benchmarks....well, it fully depends on the game being benched, as always.


----------



## AMDrocks

Eek, Not what i was expecting, But atleast it catches up to Intel.


----------



## black96ws6

Okay so spend a little more and get the 2600k looks like, but I think we already knew that from prior benches...unless you just want something different to play with and are tired of Intel


----------



## Edgemeal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *knunez*


404 could not be found?


reading this one in the meantime,
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/proce...99/amd-fx-8150

*Part of the issue is that most software isn't written to take advantage of so many cores, so it's hard to push this processor to its limits. Running two sets of our benchmarks at once to push the processor showed it could be faster than its Intel rival when all cores have to be used, but this is unlikely to happen in everyday use. *


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


^ Curious, what game is that?
Something like Starcraft II, I wouldn't be surprised at all.


Its the source engine, I play lots of source games and I was interested in BD's performance but this is just absolute garbage.


----------



## dalastbmills

Looks like a lot of people are going Intel


----------



## bstm400

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality*


Seems the memory bandwidth isnt much better either.. this looks like a phenom 1 fiasco again, so that means piledriver should be what bulldozer was meant to be.


Yup, this is the same conclusion I reached. We'll have to wait until pile driver to see the real thing. Sigh, well at least we had a fun pre-launch party. Q_Q


----------



## eggs2see

Finally.. now I can go buy a 2500k.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


You serious?
How amazing??


Pretty amazing. As in pretty.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


LOL

Nice try.

It's a Pentium 4, people.


Not a P4.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality*


Seems the memory bandwidth isnt much better either.. this looks like a phenom 1 fiasco again, so that means piledriver should be what bulldozer was meant to be.


So, AMD might actually catch up with the IPC of their previous architecture?


----------



## el gappo

Cinebench on venamous X







Will put my thread up in a min.


----------



## dalastbmills

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eggs2see*


Finally.. now I can go buy a 2500k.


Agreed.


----------



## Liquidpain

Looks like ivy bridge will launch intel into an almost uncatchable lead.


----------



## kartcrg84

AMD, I want to believe, but you are giving me almost no reason to not buy sandy...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality;15270529*
> Seems the memory bandwidth isnt much better either.. this looks like a phenom 1 fiasco again, so that means piledriver should be what bulldozer was meant to be.


Add up to 10% for the optimization such as BIOS, drivers,updating benchmark code for the FX. If there isn't anything to improve,AMD needs to get the architecture perfected and get another revision out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prox;15270596*
> Just stop, dude.


Lol what.


----------



## ShiftedReality

on benchmarkreviews.com review where can i get a 23500K?


----------



## Nikkopo

I'm keeping my 1055t lol, comparable to the FX-1850 for half the price.

And then I'm saying hello to the dark side next year, I need that extra power Intel offers


----------



## black96ws6

El gappo, nice job getting it up to 5ghz. I am getting tired, going to head out for the evening, the power consumption when OC'd is also a little disappointing, that's one thing we couldn't test with the Russian 8120s since we were remote...


----------



## 2010rig

1st benchmark that I see, BD @ 4.6 doesn't keep up with 2600K at STOCK? Seriously?


----------



## GanjaSMK

Among the many things I notice people say there are instruction sets not even currently being used by these processors and BMR notes that Windows 8 seems to take full advantage of the chip!?

Interesting, what has been the significance of Windows 8 (even the developer preview) that takes precedence over Windows 7 in this? What have I missed about Windows 8 that it does better than Windows 7?


----------



## daman246

truly Disappointing Amd wow Bulldozer suks


----------



## ShiftedReality

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Add up to 10% for the optimization such as BIOS, drivers,updating benchmark code for the FX. If there isn't anything to improve,AMD needs to get the architecture perfected and get another revision out.


Yeah Piledriver is a updated bulldozer basically like phenom 1 => phenom 2
so i would expect the same boost that way.

Also, its interesting AMD wins in the AES benchmark.


----------



## knunez

to bad I already bought an AMD board, well I guess I'll just get the phenom II 960t, unlock it to a 6 core and OC the hell outa it, i'm pertty sure you guys will help


----------



## HunterAMG

Hmmm

Quote:



Overall similar performance to Core i5 2500K, but at a higher price


http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=17
...
I hate to say this but i'm getting a 2500k system. Dissapointed that AMD not only did not bring the performance expected but also didn't bring the 'bang for the buck' that AMD is known for...
So it's the 2500k Or perhaps i'm gonna get a Thuban...


----------



## AMD_Freak

Im waiting for the magic bios to dig out the bulldozer


----------



## FiX

http://james.friendshomeandinsanity.com/BD/
Iv put the slides from [H] up there and some of the pages from TS


----------



## pioneerisloud

I don't know guys, at some points the FX8150 is right between the 2500k and 2600k. In other situations it gets destroyed. In other situations, the Sempron 140 beats it.

So it all depends (as always) with your projected use.

I'm going for i3 builds now for my HTPC's, its confirmed by these results. But I'm sure there's still a ton of you guys that could use the FX chip and get good improvements from even Thuban.


----------



## Fr0sty

2 billion transistors :O

mind blown


----------



## Billy_5110

as said, people are going to buy intel cpu for now. Bulldozer release is great for intel market hahahahaha. But not good for amd's one...

Anyway, yeah intel is going to elad the cpu's market for couple fo year by now, let's see what ivy would give us. Sorry amd but there's been too much time sice you have offered a really awesome cpu.

I was going to build an fx-8150 build to my bro. here come's another 2500k in tha house!

Holy s... can't beleive thats bulldozer. REALLY???? That's the best they can offer?


----------



## -iceblade^

i'm not gonna lie, i'm pretty disappointed...

the single threaded performance is pretty, well, disappointing. i don't see why it'd be more compelling than a 2500K... meh.

and the 2500K has mATX SLI/Crossfire boards. back to Intel i guess


----------



## knunez

btw, any suggestions on where to sell mobos just incase?


----------



## rubicsphere

Are they for sale anywhere yet?


----------



## oicw

Bye Bye AMD.

And they tried to tell us those "leaks" weren't real.


----------



## linkin93

The techspot review seems to be most reliable one.


----------



## el gappo

IMC is epic sauce but as you can see, not really doing much.

Geekbench and cinebench are close to sandy.


----------



## Don Karnage

Read a few reviews and they're just awful. If it had a decent ipc these chips would be killer.


----------



## Peremptor

Oh well at least the friend I sold my 1055t to won't be anxious to upgrade anytime soon...


----------



## Rebelord

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


The techspot review seems to be most reliable one.


VRZone is pretty thorough also.


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


^ Curious, what game is that?
Something like Starcraft II, I wouldn't be surprised at all.


Just stop, dude.


----------



## 2010rig

Did any review site do clock for clock comparisons?

I want to see an 1100T running at 3.6.

I'm speechless right now. I've yet to see Bulldozer win a single benchmark, not even running at 4.6.


----------



## QuackPot

It does ok in comarison to SB in some synthetic benchmarks, but gaming wise, even the i3 2120 is destroying the 8150 and it costs half as much. :/



















But what really makes me laugh and cry is the fact all the wait the AMD fans have done such April time, they all went out and bought 990fx boards only to find cheap i3's beat them in gaming. And they won't even be stocked until the 24th this month.

10/10 AMD. I'm sure your fans will love you for this.


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I don't know guys, at some points the FX8150 is right between the 2500k and 2600k. In other situations it gets destroyed. In other situations, the Sempron 140 beats it.

So it all depends (as always) with your projected use.

I'm going for i3 builds now for my HTPC's, its confirmed by these results. But I'm sure there's still a ton of you guys that could use the FX chip and get good improvements from even Thuban.











My projected use is nothing to do with servers,

Bulldozer the server core optimized for the server client its a multitasking king,

I really do not know what people expected when AMD initially let slip about BD / Zambezi being designed with multitasking in mind,

Its initial path was Servers not Games


----------



## NateN34

Wow, more expensive, uses more power, less performance per core, less overall performance even at overclock.

Who would buy it?


----------



## Don Karnage

Tigerdirect has them up for sale


----------



## Shahzad7

Well, the 2500k looks pretty sexy right now.


----------



## dalastbmills

What 1155 board should I get?

AsRock P67 Extreme 4 Gen 3?


----------



## Fr0sty

@el gappo: is that on air 4.9??


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


2 billion transistors :O

mind blown


Devide that by 8 and then work out how many transistors your current CPU has per core ?


----------



## Seronx

2 Billion transistors, and worthless performance


----------



## SSJVegeta

Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


----------



## dalastbmills

What 1155 board should I get?

AsRock P67 Extreme 4 Gen 3?


----------



## yukon

its really not to far off i7's honestly.. doesn't help that the i7's are a year old.. I'll still grab a dozer since the price is perfectly matched to the performance.


----------



## hesho

hmm, i'm a bit surprised. It's a bit slower then what i thought (i thought it would match the i7-2600k) but it didn't even do that.

Here's a question though, wouldn't AMD have been better off just shrinking the thuban cores instead?


----------



## dw.shift

:/ ouch ... too much spam and very weak results


----------



## allupinya

wonder how they fold, would like to see to numbers.


----------



## Genome852

I am now sad.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15270787*
> Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


I let down..... This means I need to get rid of my UD3(take it back to microcenter for refund) and jump on the SB boat or keep the UD3 and get a PIIx6


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dalastbmills;15270795*
> What 1155 board should I get?
> 
> AsRock P67 Extreme 4 Gen 3?


How much do you wanna spend


----------



## Raven.7

Wow. This is ugly.

I think we can expect AMD to declare bankruptcy as soon as Ivy Bridge previews are in.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality;15270658*
> Yeah Piledriver is a updated bulldozer basically like phenom 1 => phenom 2
> so i would expect the same boost that way.
> 
> Also, its interesting AMD wins in the AES benchmark.


If so, I'm holding onto my 1090T until Piledriver. *sigh* I hope Piledriver isn't too far away.
The results don't look very good,most people on here are going to be running Intel SB's of course.
Yeah,interesting indeed. The FX 8120 has almost as much memory bandwidth as the 2500K in Sisoft Sandra.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15270787*
> Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


Probably me







I was given a free 955BE to use and needed a board to go with it so I got the 990FXA UD3. No way can I afford to buy a full SB set up. Will just have to take the next best thing I guess.


----------



## HunterAMG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shahzad7;15270775*
> Well, the 2500k looks pretty sexy right now.


Dam right mate. Even that i3 is looking hmm tempting.


----------



## mark4d

im not buyN this *crap* omg i waited a year i guess intel is my next move


----------



## radaja

this one really makes me cringe everytime i look at it


----------



## knunez

any way I can refund my board to newegg?


----------



## QuackPot

And to add insult to injury, AMD need to remember the i7 2700k that's coming out soon too. As if the 2600k wasn't killing it already.

Then the almighty SB-E comes to town and nukes everything in it's path.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


The techspot review seems to be most reliable one.


Indeed.


----------



## Disturbed117

I figured as much, hmm 2600k here i come.


----------



## Usario

AMD, Bulldozer was a terrible business move IMO.

One would expect that when you saw that it's worse than your previous architecture, you would stop development.

You should've kept rehashing the Athlon 64 over and over. I'd much rather see the Phenom III.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Raven.7*


Wow. This is ugly.

I think we can expect AMD to declare bankruptcy as soon as Ivy Bridge previews are in.


AMD still rocks in the servermarket, don't they?


----------



## mark4d

they should have kept this crap on the drawing board why even bother there stock is going to drop so hard


----------



## maTyaR

I'm a bit sad after looking at at the reviews. The price is too high for its downside of performance. The 2500k has a better overall than the 8150 - especially in terms of pricing and power usage.

Like others say, it definitely gives off an aura of the first Phenom series.

Edit: Now I have to re-adjust my quantity of those new processors (very few QTY as not many will purchase these, I'm sure) at my store.


----------



## Seronx

Dirk meyer we need a k8 we need you once again!!!


----------



## Flippy125

Well those "fake" benchmarks aren't so fake now, are they? Oh well, I already purchased an AM3+ mobo and can't drop $500 on an Intel conversion. I'l still probably see a huge performance increase compared to my 925


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15270834*
> this one really makes me cringe everytime i look at it


Ouch


----------



## mark4d

well call it a bois problem


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15270871*
> AMD, Bulldozer was a terrible business move IMO.
> 
> One would expect that when you saw that it's worse than your previous architecture, you would stop development.
> 
> You should've kept rehashing the Athlon 64 over and over. I'd much rather see the Phenom III.


+1

Time to start saving for a SB-E build i guess then. One has to wonder why they didn't scrap the project..


----------



## Derp

Yep, Dirk abandoned ship for a damn good reason.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Ok, I'll try asking this again. Why does BMR seem to think Windows 8 marks improvement for BD than Windows 7?


----------



## Raven.7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spiderm0nkey;15270827*
> Probably me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was given a free 955BE to use and needed a board to go with it so I got the 990FXA UD3. No way can I afford to buy a full SB set up. Will just have to take the next best thing I guess.


Get yourself a 1090T and save $40 for a better GPU or an SSD.


----------



## Dranx

After looking at the power consumption, how are the Interlagos chips going to be even remotely power efficient? This is just utterly ridiculous and laughable.


----------



## anubis1127

I wonder how many of the guy's with rigs that said "Waiting for Bulldozer" in the CPU, or system name will actually end up buying one.


----------



## AMDrocks

Now i am stuck deciding, 2500K or still stick with bulldozer









God knows what will happen to AMD now.


----------



## Aedric

Yea I don't see a real reason to buy this over the 2500k . Mind you I'm mostly interested in gaming .


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oicw*


Bye Bye AMD.

And they tried to tell us those "leaks" weren't real.












I still want to buy one. The caveat though will be a great mATX board. Need that mATX board (and a new stepping).


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Dirk meyer we need a k8 we need you once again!!!


Getting rid of Dirk Meyer was a very stupid move.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


AMD, Bulldozer was a terrible business move IMO.

One would expect that when you saw that it's worse than your previous architecture, you would stop development.

You should've kept rehashing the Athlon 64 over and over. I'd much rather see the Phenom III.


Unfortunately I agree with you,however once AMD can improve the K15 design,BD will be a lot better,but by then it will be too late.


----------



## sbraz




----------



## AMD_Freak

Is this a good place to buy a 990FX MB for rock bottom prices ..say 50bucks?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

I'm incredibly sad right now.


----------



## Nikkopo

Where are the extremely defensive fanboys now?







Gotta see their reactions.

But as someone mentioned before, AMD have listened too much to "One step forward, Two steps back" while working :/


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anubis1127*


I wonder how many of the guy's with rigs that said "Waiting for Bulldozer" in the CPU, or system name will actually end up buying one.


No me, i didn't want to jump the gun and have this happen,
Good move on my part.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aedric*


Yea I don't see a real reason to buy this over the 2500k . Mind you I'm mostly interested in gaming .


Only reason I can think of is if you want really high electricity bills, that power consumption is crazy.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


+1

Time to start saving for a SB-E build i guess then. One has to wonder why they didn't scrap the project..


Agreed, except that I'm going Gulftown to save money (once SB-E drops, you can imagine 970s popping up for around or under $400).


----------



## Aedric

I expect the prices for these cpu's will fall in the coming weeks. I wouldn't buy right away.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


Where are the extremely defensive fanboys now?







Gotta see their reactions.

But as someone mentioned before, AMD have listened too much to "One step forward, Two steps back" while working :/


They all committed suicide or are planning to raid AMD Headquarters


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


Where are the extremely defensive fanboys now?







Gotta see their reactions.

But as someone mentioned before, AMD have listened too much to "One step forward, Two steps back" while working :/


See my new sig rig.


----------



## daman246

o wow it kills me to believe that my 955 at 4.4ghz is much better than the Bulldozer sigh Amd once again u disappoint me, Instead of bulldozer they should haved released phenom IIIs


----------



## Absauston

Quote:



Only reason I can think of is if you want really high electricity bills, that power consumption is crazy.


Now we know the reason for the water cooling. Good news is you get a free bulldozer with a tin box...


----------



## Aedric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anubis1127*


Only reason I can think of is if you want really high electricity bills, that power consumption is crazy.


Well electricity here isn't that expensive. Its almost winter time and my computer works wonderfully as a space heater.


----------



## Nocturin

Balla,

your 10-15%/20-30% thing a few days ago was spot on. I'd quote it but I can barely dig through these pages now.

-----
The forum had a happy ending


----------



## Don Karnage

Wasn't it JF who said "IPC doesn't matter"?


----------



## nenad

Really sorry to have seen this. Will exploit this 1055t a while longer and sandy/ivy here i come.


----------



## AMD_Freak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anubis1127*


Only reason I can think of is if you want really high electricity bills, that power consumption is crazy.


it would even be hard to justify a BD as a folding machine


----------



## linkin93

Hmm. I already have a compatible board. I can sell my CPU when these are out and still get better performance.

Thoughts?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15270949*
> I'm incredibly sad right now.


Me too.








I see no reason to get a FX 8120 over my 1090T,down to power consumption, the FX consumes even more power under load.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15270979*
> See my new sig rig.


Even more sad.


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta;15270787*
> Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


Just ordered the 8120 on tiger direct here.


----------



## rubicsphere

FX-8150 is definitely a fail at the price. The FX-8120 is a little easier to stomach. I'll be getting an 8120 ASAP.


----------



## Flippy125

Let's hope the new architecture just needs to settle in. If not:
*#occupyAMD*


----------



## GanjaSMK

Seriously I guess I'm just lost in all of this banter on how bad it is. It's not _that_ bad. You people are over reacting. Of course it hasn't met people's expectations and definitely has proven that at current pricing it's not what most people on OCN would choose.

But suppose it drops price quickly, suppose there is this magical Windows patch that is supposed to fix how it interacts with some programs, what about Windows 8?! Will someone please explain how BMR expressly notes it takes Windows 8 to take full advantage of these processors?!


----------



## NateN34

Where is that one guy with the Bulldozer image?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK;15271011*
> But suppose it drops price quickly, suppose there is this magical Windows patch that is supposed to fix how it interacts with some programs, what about Windows 8?! Will someone please explain how BMR expressly notes it takes Windows 8 to take full advantage of these processors?!


Eww, who wants that tablet OS anyways?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckaroo;15271001*
> Just ordered the 8120 on tiger direct here.


Why?
The FX8120 isn't much of any upgrade from your 1055T.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15270944*
> Unfortunately I agree with you,however once AMD can improve the K15 design,BD will be a lot better,but by then it will be too late.


That'll just keep AMD a generation behind, as they have been for quite a while.

I wonder if with Piledriver they'll ACTUALLY MATCH THE SINGLE THREADED PERFORMANCE OF THEIR OWN ARCHITECTURE FROM 2008.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15270993*
> Balla,
> 
> your 10-15%/20-30% thing a few days ago was spot on. I'd quote it but I can barely dig through these pages now.
> 
> The forum had a happy ending


Very true, +9001 internetz to Balla


----------



## Xyro TR1

Welp... per-dollar, the 2500k wins out. Ordered.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aedric*


Well electricity here isn't that expensive. Its almost winter time and my computer works wonderfully as a space heater.


Before I put my GPU under h20 it was an excellent space heater. Electricity on the eastern part of the US is ridiculous.


----------



## Seronx

Phenom II 3 Generations behind AMD FX 6 Generations behind


----------



## Schmuckley

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-20.html








what are people supposed to use this for? hey! it's 2011 and amd came up with netburst!







it sucks @ games..computing math..what's good about this thing? performance worse than a 965? What were they thinking??


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Balla,

your 10-15%/20-30% thing a few days ago was spot on. I'd quote it but I can barely dig through these pages now.

-----
The forum had a happy ending










It's happy ending if you're a Intel user.


----------



## Fr0sty

bring on piledriver asap

me am disapoint


----------



## Aedric

Is there any chance of me hitting 6ghz on the thing with custom water? Might be worth it then.


----------



## Seronx

at least we know the upgrade bath and names

These better be 3x performance per watt


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hesho*


hmm, i'm a bit surprised. It's a bit slower then what i thought (i thought it would match the i7-2600k) but it didn't even do that.

Here's a question though, wouldn't AMD have been better off just shrinking the thuban cores instead?


Yeah they would, I can see why we haven't gotten unlocked Llanos yet now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Raven.7*


Wow. This is ugly.

I think we can expect AMD to declare bankruptcy as soon as Ivy Bridge previews are in.


Er, most people would buy Llano or Bobcat, not BD anyway.


----------



## ShiftedReality

Reading more and more reviews it seems Bulldozer is a Phenom 1 all over again. I was hoping for more. Seems for the upcoming months AMD will be good in mobile/GPU/Server. The desktop it seems will have to wait for piledriver (Phenom 1 -> Phenom II) revisions sadly. Also as the slide posted says IPC increase... AMD needs to hurry tho and bring Piledriver early 2012.


----------



## fatmario

I can't just imagine whats going through people head right now, so many people been waiting this long for bulldozer to come out turns out faildozer after all.


----------



## Don Karnage

Tigerdirect has them up for sale

FX-8150 - 259.99

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=1308191

FX-8120 - 219.99

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=1239958

FX-6100 - 189.99 - *SOLD OUT*

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...961&CatId=7341


----------



## Liquidpain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Seriously I guess I'm just lost in all of this banter on how bad it is. It's not _that_ bad. You people are over reacting. Of course it hasn't met people's expectations and definitely has proven that at current pricing it's not what most people on OCN would choose.

But suppose it drops price quickly, suppose there is this magical Windows patch that is supposed to fix how it interacts with some programs, what about Windows 8?! Will someone please explain how BMR expressly notes it takes Windows 8 to take full advantage of these processors?!










Over reacting? Man didn't you get the memo? BD was gonna ROFLStomp SB.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


I already have a 2600k (and a 970, a 950, and two 920s).

I am planning on purchasing an 8120 or 8150. Chip is promising enough for me to want to see what I can do with it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


me am disapoint


Shouldn't be.

I recall telling you that BD was going to perform more or less like this weeks ago.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











at least we know the upgrade bath and names

These better be 3x performance per watt


Lol @ steamroller, I think I used one of those in college.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Er, most people would buy Llano or Bobcat, not BD anyway.


Speaking of that, how the hell does AMD expect people to buy Trinity if it has the same core count and way less IPC?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aedric*


Is there any chance of me hitting 6ghz on the thing with custom water? Might be worth it then.


There's no point. The IPC is so terrible clocking them super high does little


----------



## mark4d

this was like getting a date with a super sexy chick only to find out she has bad breath and granny pannies on wth


----------



## yukon

it beat 2600k in bf3 thats all i care about lolz


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











at least we know the upgrade bath and names

These better be 3x performance per watt


excavator better not be a simple backhoe

ohh and by 2014 amd will be at sandy bridge level performance???

:S ... doesnt sound too good


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


it beat 2600k in bf3 thats all i care about lolz


Link?


----------



## Canis-X

Got mine!


----------



## FLCLimax




----------



## ar3f

Desktop sales are way lower than laptops; AMD can survive with Llano.
Their naming scheme - Bulldozer, Piledriver etc is naive at best.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15271050*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least we know the upgrade bath and names
> 
> These better be 3x performance per watt


More to talk about









well bd did..

then piledriver did...

...and the world goes on.

This has actually piqed my interest more than hampered it.
I haven't overclocked before, and I'm still thinking about all the different buttons and switches to push to squeeze just a little more out of a 4/6 core.

Heh. And now I really lust over the 990x. 6c/12t monster that is!


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15271100*
> Got mine!


Your name is "Buck"?









You're names buck right? And you came here to ......


----------



## ikem

whats the status of sales on amazon and newegg?


----------



## Prox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLCLimax;15271103*


LOL

Oh, wow.


----------



## spiderm0nkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raven.7;15270927*
> Get yourself a 1090T and save $40 for a better GPU or an SSD.


$40 lol.... more like $100. Not in the USA here... Besides I already have an SSD and I have no need for a better GPU.


----------



## mark4d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;15271071*
> I already have a 2600k (and a 970, a 950, and two 920s).
> 
> I am planning on purchasing an 8120 or 8150. Chip is promising enough for me to want to see what I can do with it.
> 
> Shouldn't be.
> 
> I recall telling you that BD was going to perform more or less like this weeks ago.


go for it can i buy ur Intel setup


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15271050*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least we know the upgrade bath and names
> 
> These better be 3x performance per watt


I love the name "excavator", but after faildozer I just can't feel any excitement for it.

Then again, who gets excited over CPUs coming out in three or four years?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ikem*


whats the status of sales on amazon and newegg?


Newegg doesn't have them and neither does Amazon. If you want one tigerdirect is the only place


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Link?


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...mance_review/5


----------



## Addict1973

mmmmm. Not sure why all the disappointment. I've only read the guru3D review however I think it looks pretty good. Certainly a decent enough chip for running my games (its all about gpu today) and looks like it bests the competition for encoding. Add to this the fact that this chip (8150) combined with the $229 (cdn) CHV seem extremly affordable compared to Sandy Bridge set-ups!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











at least we know the upgrade bath and names

These better be 3x performance per watt


But it's only 10% faster than Bulldozer. It's honestly too lite,too late from AMD. AMD,bring back Dirk Meyer and make a Phenom III,_something_ to hold us over until Piledriver,PLEASE!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Yeah they would, I can see why we haven't gotten unlocked Llanos yet now.

Er, most people would buy Llano or Bobcat, not BD anyway.


Yeah,*most* people.,for those that want anything more than a basic laptop/desktop would go to Intel.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


bring on piledriver asap

me am disapoint


I am disappointed too. I even feel disgusted at seeing AMD in my sig.








BRB...gonna overclock my 1090T...with a hammer.


----------



## Seronx




----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...mance_review/5


LOL, how is that possible?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...mance_review/5


They were running 1 6970. Its a gpu bottlenecked benchmark. Irrelevant.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Addict1973*


mmmmm. Not sure why all the disappointment. I've only read the guru3D review however I think it looks pretty good. Certainly a decent enough chip for running my games and looks like it bests the competition for encoding. Add to this the fact that this chip (8150) combined with the $229 (cdn) CHV seem extremly affordable compared to Sandy Bridge set-ups!



2500K - 219.99
Asrock Z68 Extreme 3 - 119.99

Total : 339.98

8150 - 259.99
Crosshair V - 229.99

Total : 489.98


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liquidpain*


Over reacting? Man didn't you get the memo? BD was gonna ROFLStomp SB.


I never rode that wagon, sorry to spoil!









I really want to know though, what it is that Windows 8 is doing so oddly different than Windows 7 that would benefit this architecture. I'm boggled because I obviously missed something in the preview builds. I suppose I should reload it on my 1055T and give it a go again.

What did I miss with Windows 8? I could care less about Metro front end and how everyone seems to hate it because it favors tablets. That doesn't bother me at all - it's the core of the OS I'm interested in...


----------



## Darkpriest667

I wonder when we'll see JF AMD again.


----------



## UbNub

Anyone know if pile driver will work on AM3+ boards?


----------



## AMD_Freak

ALL I CAN SAY IS


----------



## jprovido

it sucks. power consumption is horrible. this killed it for me









it's a new architecture. I'm expecting that even with the module approach. at least it will perform better if not the same with a deneb core but come on. wth did you do this to us amd? you really want us to switch over intel

bad idea to read reviews when I just woke up. hopefully a cup of coffee can fix this


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


It does ok in comarison to SB in some synthetic benchmarks, but gaming wise, even the i3 2120 is destroying the 8150 and it costs half as much. :/

But what really makes me laugh and cry is the fact all the wait the AMD fans have done such April time, they all went out and bought 990fx boards only to find cheap i3's beat them in gaming. And they won't even be stocked until the 24th this month.

10/10 AMD. I'm sure your fans will love you for this.


This is the #1 concern the so called Intel "fanboys" have been talking about all year. Yet we got talked down at, spat on, and kicked, when all we were saying was that if the IPC isn't there, and if you have weaker cores, the gaming performance is going to suffer. Why?

The MAJORITY of the games are NOT Multi-threaded.

I don't even want to be right, this sucks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


Who will buy Bulldozer instead of 2500K/2600K?


The hardcore AMD fans.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hesho*


hmm, i'm a bit surprised. It's a bit slower then what i thought (i thought it would match the i7-2600k) but it didn't even do that.

Here's a question though, wouldn't AMD have been better off just shrinking the thuban cores instead?


Most likely, Bulldozer does overclock higher, not like it makes a difference, when it's losing to a 2600K at 3.4, when BD is running at 4.6.

This is just sad, pathetic, I'm pretty shocked right now, we know BD was having issues, didn't expect it to be this bad.

JF-AMD did a good job discrediting all those leaks, by calling them fake, not indicative of final performance, which we now know were real.

I'm just







right now, now we're stuck with Intel, and their high prices, and let's be honest, they can't possibly put out way faster CPU's for fear of a Monopoly. Can Intel buy AMD and secretly run it and make it more competitive?

I'm just lost for words for right now. We NEEDED BD to at least compete.


----------



## SCollins

Its gonna take days to sift through this data, but a trend is emerging.


----------



## Nocturin

Drama queens/kings!

MT was there, ST was not. Tis what I was expecting. Tis what you all should've been expecting.

I was surprised @ the power consumtion though, and the odd behaviour of 1 core dropping off when full load OC. I'm going to bed. See Yall in the morning.


----------



## FLCLimax




----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15271156*


Lol,there's a little bulldozer in the background.
Look like the only thing Bulldozer is going to plow is it's own grave.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15271162*
> They were running 1 6970. Its a gpu bottlenecked benchmark. Irrelevant.
> 
> So then the intel should have done better? what are you trying to say?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15271191*
> I'm just
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> right now, now we're stuck with Intel, and their high prices


High Prices? 219.99 for an unlocked quad core that does 5ghz is expensive? Come on 2010. There's nothing high priced about sandy bridge. They can hit 5Ghz with a 120 dollar Z68 board
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15271217*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15271162*
> They were running 1 6970. Its a gpu bottlenecked benchmark. Irrelevant.
> 
> So then the intel should have done better? what are you trying to say?
> 
> 
> 
> BF3 is just a monster game that needs SLI/Xfire or even 3 way SLI/Xfire. One GPU bottlenecks the cpu
Click to expand...


----------



## Usario

I'm calling it and taking all credit for discovering the following.

Bulldozer is actually the fastest CPU ever. All programs have been rigged to run on x87 whenever it is detected that the CPU is a Bulldozer. The reviewers are in on this.

Why, you ask?

The Illuminati and the New World Order have always longed for Intel to be #1 -- for example, "Intel Insider". And Intel has their best interests at heart too. For example, Intel outsources many jobs to their homeland.

Anyway.

#occupyAMD


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15271156*


----------



## Nocturin

@JF-AMD

can we have that desktop wallpaper? or is interlagos still on the hush-hush?


----------



## kabj06

I just read a review on Faildozer at Hardware Canuck's site. Bulldozer blows. Epick Fail. When a quad core Phenom II 720 can beat an 8 core at ANYTHING (in this case memory latency) there is something wrong. As for what after my 1090t gets old in ~2 years, Intel it is.


----------



## yukon

Don Karnage said:


> High Prices? 219.99 for an unlocked quad core that does 5ghz is expensive? Come on 2010. There's nothing high priced about sandy bridge. They can hit 5Ghz with a 120 dollar Z68 board
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *yukon*
> 
> 
> BF3 is just a monster game that needs SLI/Xfire or even 3 way SLI/Xfire. One GPU bottlenecks the cpu
> 
> 
> Even if it bottlenecks the 2600k should have still been on top? what are you trying to say?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


High Prices? 219.99 for an unlocked quad core that does 5ghz is expensive? Come on 2010. There's nothing high priced about sandy bridge. They can hit 5Ghz with a 120 dollar Z68 board


Ok, let me clarify, for my needs, I'm not interested in 1155.

I'm interested in X79.

3930K will be $589
3960X will be $999

Remember, I am not primarily a gamer, in fact, I barely ever play games.

For all you gamers though, 2500K is still KING, and it's priced nicely, I agree.

I'm just disappointed right now.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NateN34*


LOL, how is that possible?


What do you mean "how is a GPU bottleneck in a graphically intensive game at high settings possible"?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Ok, let me clarify, for my needs, I'm not interested in 1155.

I'm interested in X79.

3930K will be $589
3960X will be $999

Remember, I am not primarily a gamer, in fact, I barely ever play games.

For all you gamers though, 2500K is still KING, and it's priced nicely, I agree.

I'm just disappointed right now.










Same, I had the 3960X in my sig for awhile then boom someone called me out ;P


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This is the #1 concern the so called Intel "fanboys" have been talking about all year. Yet we got talked down at, spat on, and kicked, when all we were saying was that if the IPC isn't there, and if you have weaker cores, the gaming performance is going to suffer. Why?

The MAJORITY of the games are NOT Multi-threaded.

I don't even want to be right, this sucks.

The hardcore AMD fans.

Most likely, Bulldozer does overclock higher, not like it makes a difference, when it's losing to a 2600K at 3.4, when BD is running at 4.6.

This is just sad, pathetic, I'm pretty shocked right now, we know BD was having issues, didn't expect it to be this bad.

JF-AMD did a good job discrediting all those leaks, by calling them fake, not indicative of final performance, which we now know were real.

I'm just







right now, now we're stuck with Intel, and their high prices, and let's be honest, they can't possibly put out way faster CPU's for fear of a Monopoly. Can Intel buy AMD and secretly run it and make it more competitive?

I'm just lost for words for right now. We NEEDED BD to at least compete.


Where's JF-AMD now?
Now with Intel as the only choice,Intel is going to be stagnant with performance improvements and price it as high as they want to.
Intel cannot buy AMD because that would make it a true monopoly,even with AMD barely limping along surviving off of their GPU division ,Intel can't technically be a monopoly.


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


What do you mean "how is a GPU bottleneck in a graphically intensive game at high settings possible"?


would you not agree however in this case that the 2600 should have done better? either way? bottleneck or not?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Got mine!











woot! i want results!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I'm calling it and taking all credit for discovering the following.

Bulldozer is actually the fastest CPU ever. All programs have been rigged to run on x87 whenever it is detected that the CPU is a Bulldozer. The reviewers are in on this.

Why, you ask?

The Illuminati and the New World Order have always longed for Intel to be #1 -- for example, "Intel Insider". And Intel has their best interests at heart too. For example, Intel outsources many jobs to their homeland.

</sarcasmandconspiracytheoryfortehlulz>

Anyway.

#occupyAMD


#occupyAMD

/\\ thats just fun. I feel all rebel.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


Drama queens/kings!

MT was there, ST was not. Tis what I was expecting. Tis what you all should've been expecting.

I was surprised @ the power consumtion though, and the odd behaviour of 1 core dropping off when full load OC. I'm going to bed. See Yall in the morning.


but IPC was suposed to have gone up .. not down .. that's why im mad ... via bring on an x86 cpu out NAWWW


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This is the #1 concern the so called Intel "fanboys" have been talking about all year. Yet we got talked down at, spat on, and kicked, when all we were saying was that if the IPC isn't there, and if you have weaker cores, the gaming performance is going to suffer. Why?

The MAJORITY of the games are NOT Multi-threaded.

I don't even want to be right, this sucks.

The hardcore AMD fans.

Most likely, Bulldozer does overclock higher, not like it makes a difference, when it's losing to a 2600K at 3.4, when BD is running at 4.6.

This is just sad, pathetic, I'm pretty shocked right now, we know BD was having issues, didn't expect it to be this bad.

JF-AMD did a good job discrediting all those leaks, by calling them fake, not indicative of final performance, which we now know were real.

I'm just







right now, now we're stuck with Intel, and their high prices, and let's be honest, they can't possibly put out way faster CPU's for fear of a Monopoly. Can Intel buy AMD and secretly run it and make it more competitive?

I'm just lost for words for right now. We NEEDED BD to at least compete.


Just remember this is a new chip that's different than what AMD has made before. 
Not many folks have had any real amount of time to learn the chip or what it wants/takes for it to run. With time these results will improve as benchers learn the correct way HOW to setup & tweak the system with one of these chips. 
I'm sure the reviewers doing these tests know how to set one up but I want to see results from hardcore OC'ers like US, not from a mag that tests things, writes reviews and that's it. 
Speaking of that, don't forget what's happening this weekend and we will see some hardcore OC'ing with this chip going down - I'll be there.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Ok, let me clarify, for my needs, I'm not interested in 1155.

I'm interested in X79.

3930K will be $589
3960X will be $999

Remember, I am not primarily a gamer, in fact, I barely ever play games.

For all you gamers though, 2500K is still KING, and it's priced nicely, I agree.

I'm just disappointed right now.










I'm probably going for X58, not convinced X79 will be worth the money (Gulftown will probably drop to around $400 when SB-E launches). But I guess it could end up exactly like 1366 vs 1155.


----------



## Don Karnage

yukon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*
> 
> 
> Even if it bottlenecks the 2600k should have still been on top? what are you trying to say?
> 
> 
> What i'm trying to say is that if you're going to bench BF3 you need a dual card setup. With a single 6970, 580 any quad core will play it fine. I'm personally waiting for a BF3 benchmark with dual 580's


----------



## hazarada

haha so bulldozer sucks... oh well time to wait for x79


----------



## Schmuckley

yah..i wanna go out and drop $200+ dollars on WORSE performance? more power consumption? NOT! btw..compusa has them for sale..lol @ the fail pics,though..looks like i'll be spending my money on rma shipping..2 ssds..1155 mobo.89gtd pro.tr2800..haven't seen a 4100 available yet..hmm..


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


would you not agree however in this case that the 2600 should have done better? either way? bottleneck or not?


No.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


but IPC was suposed to have gone up .. not down .. that's why im mad ... via bring on an x86 cpu out NAWWW


I was dissapoint in IPC too.

Oh well, there's always next time/thing. GO VIA!


----------



## Liquidpain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kryton*


Just remember this is a new chip that's different than what AMD has made before. 
Not many folks have had any real amount of time to learn the chip or what it wants/takes for it to run. With time these results will improve as benchers learn the correct way HOW to setup & tweak the system with one of these chips. 
I'm sure the reviewers doing these tests know how to set one up but I want to see results from hardcore OC'ers like US, not from a mag that tests things, writes reviews and that's it. 
Speaking of that, don't forget what's happening this weekend and we will see some hardcore OC'ing with this chip going down - I'll be there.


By the time BD even thinks of improving, IB will be staring it right in the face.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Where's JF-AMD now?


It's around midnight on a weekday, I bet he's sleeping.


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg




----------



## StuffStuff1

Shame Shame shame. If it were just $30 cheaper we would all be cheering.


----------



## xd_1771

I'm curious,
I am very, very curious
if any of the reviewers bothered to overclock the CPU-NB.


----------



## fatmario




----------



## sloppyjoe123

I was expecting these performance numbers actually...losing to the 2600k and 2500k in single core apps+gaming and showing its worth when more cores are required. BUT 1 thing I definitely did not expect was the power draw which matches 980x chips. That is 1 thing which I definitely cannot accept. A stock chip at load matches a 2600k overclocked with the same power draw, while providing significantly less performance?


----------



## Aedric

I would think the next BD will not be a huge improvement. There is a lot to fix here and I don't foresee them pulling a rabbit out of the hat.

I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## yukon

Im still getting the dozer... I know it wasn't the chip that you all wanted but i can't buy into intel..


----------



## AMDrocks

Well, I will wait till anandtech benches, They are probs the only one i will truly trust for benchmarks, Although these reviews are legit.
I just listen to anandtech really.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I'm curious,
I am very, very curious
if any of the reviewers bothered to overclock the CPU-NB.


I know increasing the nb helps, but could it really help that much, i doubt it.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


Im still getting the dozer... I know it wasn't the chip that you all wanted but i can't buy into intel..


Hate for one company just because is frowned upon on this forum especially when they produce amazing products for cheap prices.

If a 2500K was 599.99 then i could understand hate of intel but for 219.99 its a steal.


----------



## dw.shift

go go :/ i see 1k Page @ this thread!


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*


Seriously I guess I'm just lost in all of this banter on how bad it is. It's not _that_ bad. You people are over reacting. Of course it hasn't met people's expectations and definitely has proven that at current pricing it's not what most people on OCN would choose.

But suppose it drops price quickly, suppose there is this magical Windows patch that is supposed to fix how it interacts with some programs, what about Windows 8?! Will someone please explain how BMR expressly notes it takes Windows 8 to take full advantage of these processors?!











Tom's Hardware has an extensive review and Chris Angellini actually performed some tests with Windows 8. Read here.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


it sucks. power consumption is horrible. this killed it for me









it's a new architecture. I'm expecting that even with the module approach. at least it will perform better if not the same with a deneb core but come on. wth did you do this to us amd? you really want us to switch over intel

bad idea to read reviews when I just woke up. hopefully a cup of coffee can fix this


That is quite preposterous really. How much is the FX-4100 being sold for ? How does AMD expect to sell any of those if people can buy a Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition and easily overclock it to 3.7 Ghz or even more ?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Well, I will wait till anandtech benches, They are probs the only one i will truly trust for benchmarks, Although these reviews are legit.
I just listen to anandtech really.


Not sure whats holding up Anandtech


----------



## StuffStuff1

The next FX could be a godsend. Or they might mess it up. Who knows.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Where's JF-AMD now?
Now with Intel as the only choice,Intel is going to be stagnant with performance improvements and price it as high as they want to.
Intel cannot buy AMD because that would make it a true monopoly,even with AMD barely limping along surviving off of their GPU division ,Intel can't technically be a monopoly.


I know man, that statement wasn't meant to make sense, I'm truly disappointed right now.

One thing is clear, which we all agree on, how can Intel keep pushing performance and risk monopolizing the market? I'll be surprised if they still push out the 2700K.

You guys thought I was an Intel fanboy, I had hopes for AMD to make a comeback, I was critical throughout this process because I kinda saw this coming.









The delays, the lowered prices than were first expected, not to mentioned all those "fake" leaks. All signs were pointing to it.

------------

Anyway, I haven't delved into all the reviews, do we know if these were running with that magical BIOS, that's supposed to increase performance per core by 10%?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I'm curious,
I am very, very curious
if any of the reviewers bothered to overclock the CPU-NB.


I wonder if any of the old OC tricks for phenom will work on BD???, its not the same uarch. Either way, I wanna see how the linux kernel behaves before condeming it to hell and a hand basket. Certainly we all would have liked to have seen more performance from BD uarch, but it could improve on the next spin, bios and microcode changes.

either way, it does seem a bit overpriced with this first batch of review for its performance.


----------



## Liquidpain

The 2500k is like $160 at microcenter.


----------



## Aedric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Hate for one company just because is frowned upon on this forum especially when they produce amazing products for cheap prices.

If a 2500K was 599.99 then i could understand hate of intel but for 219.99 its a steal.


In a lot of ways with cpu/motherboard deals you can get it even cheaper.


----------



## Don Karnage

Under Windows 8 the 8150 still loses to the 2500K


----------



## iggydogg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


You don't understand, he sent me the official benchmarks of Zambezi CPUs, he could get into trouble for sharing classified information.

And there's absolutely no reason for me to lie to anyone here.


So are you going to call your cousin out for sending you official benchmarks of Zambezi CPU's that weren't true?Does he really exist?


----------



## gplnpsb

Well there we have it folks, IPC decreases. This is supposed to be AMD's scalable new architecture going forward? I hope the rumors of problems with the L1 Instruction cache are true and that the problem can be fixed with the Piledriver core. Otherwise how is Trinity going to be an improvement over Llano?

At two billion transistors, 315 mm2, and given AMD's limited R&D budget; I could accept this being slower in multi-threading than Gulftown, but slower than a hyper-threaded four-core sandy bridge? All I can say is wow.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

AMD is going to get hit hard by this. Not a single decent review of the BD chip yet. I'm having thoughts of jumping ship to an i5 build.... its a shame I have this nice new giga board and now have no want to even test it out


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Hate for one company just because is frowned upon on this forum especially when they produce amazing products for cheap prices.

If a 2500K was 599.99 then i could understand hate of intel but for 219.99 its a steal.


I just have a loyalty.. I've run *amd since the barton 3000 chip and I just never had a reason to switch.. yea I could spend a little more but honeslty my 955 would play bf3 without an issue more than likely..

I will get bulldozer a few months from now when things get settled.. No sense in getting it right this second.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Ya know what, That video really did convince me to still stay with bulldozer, I literally saw no difference in the 3D gaming, And that is what i usually do, 3D gaming.

I am happy again










I really hope that was a joke. Do not believe a word that video says


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Well, I will wait till anandtech benches, They are probs the only one i will truly trust for benchmarks, Although these reviews are legit.
I just listen to anandtech really.


I couldn't pick whether to reward a company for making a CPU that is worse than the current gen,or a company for their shady business practices.


----------



## Mr.N00bLaR

So did any of the testers get into anything other than changing the multi? (I admit I only skimmed). I wonder if the results will be different when _*we*_ get these chips. Is there info out anywhere on safe voltages / temps or anything like that?


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liquidpain*


By the time BD even thinks of improving, IB will be staring it right in the face.


That's possible.

All I'm saying is as it is with any new chip made by anyone, it takes time to figure out HOW to properly tweak things with it for the best possible results. I'd also be willing to bet once IB comes out there will be the same "What am I doing wrong - I can't get past xxxxMHz with mine" or the "My chip seems to be running really slow" questions and yes, you'll see these with BD as well.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

/w a cpuNB oc the power draw is over 9000.


----------



## reflex99

ordered mine.

Probably going to head to frys on saturday and pick out a board.

Then i'll hide in my cave for a few hours and pound out an overclocking guide.


----------



## linkin93

What about NB overclocking? HTT? BIOS? CPU Drivers?

Too many questions, not enough answers, and too many crappy not-done-properly reviews.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I remember that guy on XS yelling "IPC DECREASES! IPC DECREASES! EVERY TIME I POST THIS IPC DECREASES!" He was right.


Want to consider something much worse? OBR was right


----------



## robbo2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Ya know what, That video really did convince me to still stay with bulldozer, I literally saw no difference in the 3D gaming, And that is what i usually do, 3D gaming.

I am happy again










Do you also believe the 980x cinebench score?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iggydogg*


So are you going to call your cousin out for sending you official benchmarks of Zambezi CPU's that weren't true?Does he really exist?


LOL. I want to see those benchmarks NAO, maybe all these reviewers got it wrong.









Thanks for giving me something to laugh at.

Now, back to the reviews I go, they make me cringe.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Want to consider something much worse? OBR was right


<<<<<< So was this guy.









I don't want to see AMD's stock tomorrow. 
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:AMD


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Not sure whats holding up Anandtech


Magic bios to curb stomp the 2600K into the floor?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Want to consider something much worse? OBR was right


This is..... painful


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


What about NB overclocking? HTT? BIOS? CPU Drivers?

Too many questions, not enough answers, and too many crappy not-done-properly reviews.











This is what I've been getting at the whole time. It's gonna take time to learn how to bench it properly.


----------



## Aedric

Heh at least we can agree they have a nice looking box.


----------



## Revained Mortal

The 8150 is basically where it should be in most cases, between the 2500K and 2600K. I'm still curious if the NB clock plays a factor in performance like with the phenoms because I have not seen the NB above 2.2 GHz in any review. I would still like more info on the 4170. 
I'll give it a week to see if any changes are made with BIOS and various settings.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


What about NB overclocking? HTT? BIOS? CPU Drivers?

Too many questions, not enough answers, and too many crappy not-done-properly reviews.











lol...

Hope!

htt, cpu drivers... wut?


----------



## Tweeky

News Flash
Bulldozer has died


----------



## Liquidpain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kryton*


That's possible.

All I'm saying is as it is with any new chip made by anyone, it takes time to figure out HOW to properly tweak things with it for the best possible results. I'd also be willing to bet once IB comes out there will be the same "What am I doing wrong - I can't get past xxxxMHz with mine" or the "My chip seems to be running really slow" questions and yes, you'll see these with BD as well.


Not disagreeing but you have to understand that there is no way BD will overcome its deficit and then surpass SB, let alone IB. IB is going to be a freaking beast with its low power draw.


----------



## daman246

and here i was waiting 3months for bulldozer to finally Relieve myself of this 955 and here i learn that the bulldozer is just 1% better than the thuban core lol incredibly stupid


----------



## Derp

Thuban owners buying BD after seeing these results..... Blameless making excuses for IPC slower than phenom II.....

Can't decide which is worse.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol...

Hope!

htt, cpu drivers... wut?


What is HTT? Better not stand for Hyper Threading.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *daman246*


and here i was waiting 3months for bulldozer to finally Relieve myself of this 955 and here i learn that the bulldozer is just 1% better than the thuban core lol incredibly stupid


If it makes you feel any better, I waited all year.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


Thuban owners buying BD after seeing these results..... Blameless making excuses for IPC slower than phenom II.....

Can't decide which is worse.


Demoralized is the legion of AMD!

Legion of AMD take action civil disobedience is the only WAY!!!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


Thuban owners buying BD after seeing these results..... Blameless making excuses for IPC slower than phenom II.....

Can't decide which is worse.


This is:


----------



## SSJVegeta

OBR BD leaks well before launch =










OBR was always right regarding BD.


----------



## capitaltpt

Well, I think I"m holding on to my 955 for a bit longer. We'll see if new steppings or the 8170 fix anything. Hoping Piledriver still works on AM3+. Definitely last time I"ll ever buy a board before the processors are released.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Again, it raises the question if they even overclocked properly like we all know to do with Phenom II. The NB clocks play a HUGE role with Phenom II, and if they left NB at stock with Bulldozer, that could explain a lot of the lower performance benchmarks.

Just saying...it is possible.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


This is:











That is almost too crazy to believe.


----------



## Aedric

Its always risky to buy a board before a product is released. You have no idea of performance or competing products that are available around the same time.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Well, I think I"m holding on to my 955 for a bit longer. We'll see if new steppings or the 8170 fix anything. Hoping Piledriver still works on AM3+. Definitely last time I"ll ever buy a board before the processors are released.


x2 Im gonna try to sell mine at 50 dollars cheaper than I got it and see if I can pick up an intel board and a 2500 or 2600 and chalk the loss up as experience.

BTW I dont think anyone should ever take anything JF AMD says as credible again.

Unless something drastically changes in the next week or two AMD has some major damage control to do.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


OBR BD leaks well before launch =

OBR was always right regarding BD.


And JF-AMD was always wrong.









Yeah, I said it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


This is:











Someone do an estimate of the power consumption for that meaningless World Record run.

No wonder it needed Liquid Helium, but hey, at least they have their World Record.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Again, it raises the question if they even overclocked properly like we all know to do with Phenom II. The NB clocks play a HUGE role with Phenom II, and if they left NB at stock with Bulldozer, that could explain a lot of the lower performance benchmarks.

Just saying...it is possible.


I don't think the NB is the problem pioneer. I think it's the god awful IPC. Congrads Amd.. You have produced a second gen Netburst


----------



## SSJVegeta

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


That is almost too crazy to believe.


It's pronounced nucular


----------



## psyside

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dalastbmills*


What 1155 board should I get?

AsRock P67 Extreme 4 Gen 3?


Asus P8 Z68 Delux/Maximus Gene-z.


----------



## yukon

night, sorry i forgot to bring the party poppers....

I do wish all the reviewers would be like










and then drop some better benches


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


This is:











586 watts??
It consumers more on idle and load and is slower than a 1100T.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Again, it raises the question if they even overclocked properly like we all know to do with Phenom II. The NB clocks play a HUGE role with Phenom II, and if they left NB at stock with Bulldozer, that could explain a lot of the lower performance benchmarks.

Just saying...it is possible.


Believe it


















Bulldozer 4.6GHz, SB 4.8GHz

It's like AMD made a Fermi, only it's not faster, and the power draw difference is even greater.


----------



## Derp

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*   This is:








  
That's absolutely disgusting but I'm sorry but the AMD video FALSE ADVERTISING takes the cake by far.

Sorry AMD but the i7 980x doesn't get 5.41 in cinebench its actually closer to 9 flat at stock. Not everyone is as ignorant as you think..... Holy crap......






























  
 You Tube


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


And JF-AMD was always wrong.









Yeah, I said it.


Maybe JF-AMD was talking about server parts the whole time?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


Well there we have it folks, IPC decreases. This is supposed to be AMD's scalable new architecture going forward? I hope the rumors of problems with the L1 Instruction cache are true and that the problem can be fixed with the Piledriver core. Otherwise how is Trinity going to be an improvement over Llano?

At two billion transistors, 315 mm2, and given AMD's limited R&D budget; I could accept this being slower in multi-threading than Gulftown, but slower than a hyper-threaded four-core sandy bridge? All I can say is wow.


IPC definitely does seem to decrease, in applications with low ipc, but it strangely seems to improve with apps with higher IPC?? I got some investigating to do there.

Intel has a better decode here that seems to better provision the cpu to handle low IPC apps.

So it definitely appears Intel has a better uarch for todays needs. I gotta say its really weird, the benchmarks seem all upside down and sideways.

Well, looks like I won't be upgrading anything, as I already have top of the line stuff now.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Notice how they don't say the clock speeds.

The AMD was at 8.429GHz, the Intel was at 1nHz.


Nah, at 2560Ã-1600, there's not much strain on the CPU.

Quote:



I remember that guy on XS yelling "IPC DECREASES! IPC DECREASES! EVERY TIME I POST THIS IPC DECREASES!" He was right.


This saddens me. A lot...


----------



## Derp

I would REALLY like to see what JF has to say about that video trying to blatantly lie to their customers.


----------



## SSJVegeta

Yah, where is JF?


----------



## StarDestroyer

I want AMD competion to do well, but I made the right choose for my gaming budget with i5


----------



## pioneerisloud

I never said that Bulldozer was a green chip Balla. Was just saying, that if the reviewers would have tinkered with the NB, it would have given us some more interesting results. We all know that Phenom II loves a higher NB clock, and it makes a good bit of difference. The same could be possible for Bulldozer.

Yes, it's going to take DICE to keep the sucker cool.







But that's not my point. Just saying that PROPER overclocking on Bulldozer could lessen these blows that we're seeing.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Maybe JF-AMD was talking about server parts the whole time?


JF works for Amd. He was fed by Amd himself to lie to every amd fan on this forum and to hype up bulldozer. In a word he screwed you all into buying AM3+ when the product itself sucks.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


That's absolutely disgusting but I'm sorry but the AMD video FALSE ADVERTISING takes the cake by far.

Sorry AMD but the i7 980x doesn't get 5.41 in cinebench its actually closer to 9 flat at stock. Not everyone is as ignorant as you think..... Holy crap......






























http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk


Can you see why I've been calling them out on all their BS ALL year?

Most of the stuff JF-AMD said did not add up.

I'm looking forward to if/when he posts in this thread again. It oughta be good.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SSJVegeta*


OBR BD leaks well before launch =









OBR was always right regarding BD.


Now the Intel guys are basically saying "I told you so"?
It isn't exactly good to point and laugh because the situation isn't good for either side.


----------



## Schmuckley

it's lookin' pretty bad..pretty bad indeed..


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


JF works for Amd. He was fed by Amd himself to lie to every amd fan on this forum and to hype up bulldozer. In a word he screwed you all into buying AM3+ when the product itself sucks.


Does Intel do that?


----------



## AMD_Freak

just posted....
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...-fx8150-tested


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


JF works for Amd. He was fed by Amd himself to lie to every amd fan on this forum and to hype up bulldozer. In a word he screwed you all into buying AM3+ when the product itself sucks.


JF may work for AMD,but he works in the server division. I agree he might have been lying to us,but instead only telling us what the server chips can do.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NateN34*


Does Intel do that?


I've never seen an Intel employee on a website hyping intel products. Have you ever seen an Intel slide presentation where they targeted Amd? Over on Anandtech they covered the Intel conference where there were tons of slides on Ivy Bridge, SB-E and Haswell. There was no mention of Amd in any of those slides. No mention of Amd at all.


----------



## Jinny1

bhahahaha i laugh at the face of all AMD fanboys holding out for BD when they cudve got SB 9 months ago!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I never said that Bulldozer was a green chip Balla. Was just saying, that if the reviewers would have tinkered with the NB, it would have given us some more interesting results. We all know that Phenom II loves a higher NB clock, and it makes a good bit of difference. The same could be possible for Bulldozer.

Yes, it's going to take DICE to keep the sucker cool.







But that's not my point. Just saying that PROPER overclocking on Bulldozer could lessen these blows that we're seeing.


But,why OC the Bulldozer in the first place when the Intel SB chips were at stock??

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


I've never seen an Intel employee on a website hyping intel products. Have you ever seen an Intel slide presentation where they targeted Amd? Over on Anandtech they covered the Intel conference where there were tons of slides on Ivy Bridge, SB-E and Haswell. There was no mention of Amd in any of those slides. No mention of Amd at all.


Intel doesn't need to do any of that,they do it all in secrecy.


----------



## ilikepancakez

I is dissapoint bulldozer :I
guess im getting a 2500k ;_;


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


bhahahaha i laugh at the face of all AMD fanboys holding out for BD when they cudve got SB 9 months ago!


Try 11 months ago. Sandy Bridge debuted in November of last year.


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Liquidpain*


Not disagreeing but you have to understand that there is no way BD will overcome its deficit and then surpass SB, let alone IB. IB is going to be a freaking beast with its low power draw.


Oh yes, IB _should_ be a beast with a lower wattage draw - That equals less heat = higher potential clocks overall. 
As for the full potential of BD, that's yet to be seen.

I'm not saying it will overcome the deficit vs SB by any means but right now with the lack of any real experienced benching results from it, anything is possible. Could be BD is really a bomb, could be it may wind up being the "New" Socket A for AMD - Who really & honestly knows at this point?

Until time passes and things become clearer, right now I look at these "Results" as being lacking - For now anyway.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD_Freak*


just posted....
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...-fx8150-tested


Off to a good start I see.

Quote:



AMD has been trailing Intel in the x86 performance space for years now. Ever since the introduction of the first Core 2 processors in 2006, AMD hasn't been able to recover and return to the heyday of the Athlon 64 and Athlon 64 X2. Instead the company has remained relevant by driving costs down and competing largely in the sub-$200 microprocessor space. AMD's ability to hold on was largely due to its more-cores-for-less strategy. Thanks to aggressive pricing on its triple and hexa-core parts, for users who needed tons of cores, AMD has been delivering a lot of value over the past couple of years.


Good game AMD.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Try 11 months ago. Sandy Bridge debuted in November of last year.


Sandy bridge launched on January 9th my friend. I bought on release day


----------



## Schmuckley

MASSIVE FAIL! ..hmm..maybe all those sites didn't use the magic BIOS/microcode update..where's this mythical 4100? is it a like..a unicorn or something? dunno if i should wait and try to buy an amd product or not..they might go out of business after this one..


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Intel doesn't need to do any of that,they do it all in secrecy.


Dude just stop. Don't even start with that. However intel goes about things they produce amazing products.


----------



## KillerHurdz

Very depressing news. We can only hope that they have their stuff together for 2012... :/


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Sandy bridge launched on January 9th my friend. I bought on release day










Yeah... I think he's thinking of X58/Nehalem.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I never said that Bulldozer was a green chip Balla. Was just saying, that if the reviewers would have tinkered with the NB, it would have given us some more interesting results. We all know that Phenom II loves a higher NB clock, and it makes a good bit of difference. The same could be possible for Bulldozer.

Yes, it's going to take DICE to keep the sucker cool.







But that's not my point. Just saying that PROPER overclocking on Bulldozer could lessen these blows that we're seeing.


Yep, a few percent is probable.

Nothing earth shattering though, I thought I saw a few running the NB at 2400Mhz..

Either way, El Gappo dropped his 5.1GHz overclock and it's slower than my i5-2500k clock for clock, and consumes nearly twice the power.


----------



## pioneerisloud

I stand corrected, I'm sorry. January 9th was release for SB.


----------



## QuackPot

Wow...


----------



## pioneerisloud

I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


It applied to Linux I thought, and the overall gain was actually 3% or less?

I don't believe there were any new patches for Windows 7 from MS.


----------



## Seronx

You Tube  



 
AMD FX


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Prox*


Yeah... I think he's thinking of X58/Nehalem.


That was winter of 2008.


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


AMD FX


Oh, the humanity!


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


How much of a difference will a L1 cache fix make? 3%? 10%?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



So what do you do if you're buying today? If you have an existing high-end Phenom II system, particularly an X4 970 or above or an X6 of any sort, I honestly don't see much of a reason to upgrade. You're likely better off waiting for the next (and final) iteration of the AM3+ lineup if you want to stick with your current platform. If you're considering buying new, I feel like the 2500K is a better overall part. You get more predictable performance across the board regardless of application type or workload mix, and you do get features like Quick Sync. In many ways, where Bulldozer is a clear win is where AMD has always done well in: heavily threaded applications. If you're predominantly running well threaded workloads, Bulldozer will typically give you performance somewhere around or above Intel's 2500K.


From Anandtech


----------



## StarDestroyer

how is it only barely ahead of pII x6 in the big multi core tests

and in games pII x 4s are practically tieing the FX-8


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


That was winter of 2008.


It was November 2008.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KillerHurdz*


Very depressing news. We can only hope that they have their stuff together for 2012... :/


According to their roadmap it will have 10%-15% performance increase.

Considering that SB already beats BD by 20%+ in many applications, i do not see how AMD can catch up. Especially when IB comes out which will add another 15-20% performance to current gen SB.


----------



## ilikepancakez

now now now. i would wait until they optimize it for bulldozer.who knows.
COME ON BULLDOZER YOU CAN DO IT ;_;


----------



## macca_dj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


Judging by what they have said its recalling from memory twice first to pre-fetch and then again to read,

10% hit on a single instruction its quite a big hit overall.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ilikepancakez*


now now now. i would wait until they optimize it for bulldozer.who knows.
COME ON BULLDOZER YOU CAN DO IT ;_;


heh









More bad news:


----------



## Liquidpain

Im tired. GG AMD.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


Hopefully this will cure Faildozer's AIDS.


----------



## Don Karnage

I'll pick up tomorrow. Night guys


----------



## ilikepancakez

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


heh









More bad news:











are you serious? D:


----------



## 2010rig

Oh my, wait 'till we get benchmarks of the 4100.









AMD better make those unlockable ON PURPOSE, that'll be their only saving grace right now.


----------



## macca_dj

So does any one know what the Windows Patch number is ?


----------



## StarDestroyer

according to this a pII x4 980 is better at hard word work than FX-8

Quote:



Lame Front End v1.0 is a single-threaded application, which means that it only utilizes a single processor core.


http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-11.html


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It was addressed for Linux:

Quote:



[PATCH] x86, AMD: Correct F15h IC aliasing issue

From: Borislav Petkov <borislav.petkov <at> amd.com>

This patch provides performance tuning for the "Bulldozer" CPU. With its
shared instruction cache there is a chance of generating an excessive
number of cache cross-invalidates when running specific workloads on the
cores of a compute module.

This excessive amount of cross-invalidations can be observed if cache
lines backed by shared physical memory alias in bits [14:12] of their
virtual addresses, as those bits are used for the index generation.

This patch addresses the issue by zeroing out the slice [14:12] of
the file mapping's virtual address at generation time, thus forcing
those bits the same for all mappings of a single shared library across
processes and, in doing so, avoids instruction cache aliases.

It also adds the kernel command line option
"unalias_va_addr=(32|64|off)" with which virtual address unaliasing
can be enabled for 32-bit or 64-bit x86 individually, or be completely
disabled.

This change leaves virtual region address allocation on other families
and/or vendors unaffected.

Signed-off-by: Andre Przywara <andre.przywara <at> amd.com>
Signed-off-by: Martin Pohlack <martin.pohlack <at> amd.com>
Signed-off-by: Borislav Petkov <borislav.petkov <at> amd.com>


Same guy who wrote that, and the "patch" said 3% performance difference.


----------



## kevink82

I didnt expect the power to be this high, comeon 8+2 phase power for top end board for this kind of high consumption?!? Gotta be kidding me to take this thing pass 5ghz mark for daily usage.....


----------



## StarDestroyer

How can pII beat FX in SINGLE CORE work


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Seronx*   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk

The F?  
Playing this song and that video you posted makes sense to me. It's completely twisted just like the ending of saw...

  
 You Tube


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Oh my, wait 'till we get benchmarks of the 4100.










AMD better make those unlockable ON PURPOSE, that'll be their only saving grace right now.


The 4170 gets 3.17 in Cinebench. Just imagine the fail that the 4100 is. Slower than an Athlon II X3. Seriously AMD better sell these things for like $50

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


It was addressed for Linux:

Same guy who wrote that, and the "patch" said 3% performance difference.


I just lost the little hope that I had gained.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

I'm gonna go cry myself to sleep now and hope this was all a big misunderstanding and/or something went terribly wrong.

If not, tomorrow I might march to the closest AMD place I know of (Austin) with pitchforks and torches. I hope to gather an angry mob along the way.


----------



## XxBeNigNxX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I suggest everyone give this a good read. It's fully possible that the reviewers might have missed a very important MS hotfix to fix a L1 cache bug.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...64#post4969164


Is there a "Magical patch" to lower the Power Consumption as well?


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I'm gonna go cry myself to sleep now and hope this was all a big misunderstanding and/or something went terribly wrong.

If not, tomorrow I might march to the closest AMD place I know of (Austin) with pitchforks and torches. I hope to gather an angry mob along the way.


#occupyAMD


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


How can pII beat FX in SINGLE CORE work


When you're special, and you're nickname is Bulldozer, that's how.

Seriously, what is going on here? How can they go backwards?

Remember when we said that history was repeating itself?

Bulldozer = AMD's Netburst.

I'm glad they got that World Record Run, they should be so proud of themselves.


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *StarDestroyer*


How can pII beat FX in SINGLE CORE work


With the flood of "Results" coming in from all over, I'm not sure how accurate all of this is, esp this early in the game. 
Again I'll wait to see some known experienced OC'ers give us results from it and some time too to get a better, more accurate picture of the deal with BD.


----------



## StarDestroyer

if Intel raises price of gaming chips like i5 equivilants in the future

I SAY WE make armor and WEAPONS from our old PC tech and STORM intel and smash the ;qjebh'l4bneth


----------



## mystikalrush

I wouldnt mind picking one up if it wasnt for that power consumption... whats the point in getting a highly overclockable CPU when you need atleast a 900w PSU with a decent single gpu... 400w+ with the cpu alone WOW no way with my gtx 570 i can handle that with my corsair tx750w... really saddens me.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


#occupyAMD



#OccupyAMD

#DestroyBOD


----------



## matt1898

So....did i do ok getting atk 1035t for my gal at 125?? is BD that bad?


----------



## Skidooer93

Is the a reputable place that is selling these yet?


----------



## derpy_hooves

Are there any 8120 95tdp reviews out? I can't seem to find any


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


The 4170 gets 3.17 in Cinebench. Just imagine the fail that the 4100 is. Slower than an Athlon II X3. Seriously AMD better sell these things for like $50

I just lost the little hope that I had gained.


To think AMD is going to discontinue the Phenom II and Athlon II.


----------



## Seronx




----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kryton*


With the flood of "Results" coming in from all over, I'm not sure how accurate all of this is, esp this early in the game. 
Again I'll wait to see some known experienced OC'ers give us results from it and some time too to get a better, more accurate picture of the deal with BD.


well..on that note i'm going to bed..hopefully it's better than what i've seen so far..very disappointing..hmm..no 4-core chips listed anywhere..yet


----------



## gplnpsb

Has anyone found a nice shot of the Orochi die yet? Something along the lines of this Llano die shot from Anandtech?










All I could find was this, which isn't nearly as nice in my opinion.


----------



## Prox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skidooer93*


Is the a reputable place that is selling these yet?


TigerDirect


----------



## SCollins

why does Anand have a 8130p ?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...8150-tested/10


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


well..on that note i'm going to bed..hopefully it's better than what i've seen so far..very disappointing..hmm..no 4-core chips listed anywhere..yet


Why would you want a 4 core Bulldozer LOL?

It would perform worse than the Phenom II x4's!


----------



## dalastbmills

Did I hear/see that tigerdirect had them? I don't seem them. Sold out?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


why does Anand have a 8130p ?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...8150-tested/10


1.58 instead of 1.58.7

OR THEY ARE ALL FAKE CONSPIRACY!!!!

joking


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


To think AMD is going to discontinue the Phenom II and Athlon II.


It's a shame, but, hey... with BD, they're charging MORE for WORSE PERFORMANCE! They couldn't keep selling K10.5, because if they did, about 10 people would buy BD.


----------



## omni_vision

guess i'll be on ebay tomorrow morning...

next plz


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I just feel bad for that guy who sold his i5-2500k setup to go Bulldozer


----------



## QuackPot

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*   Playing this song and that video you posted makes sense to me. It's completely twisted just like the ending of saw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5NzpMYmfNQ  
This one is more fitting really.

  
 You Tube  



 

And yeah, the 4100 are gonna be a laugh. I'm betting old, slowest C2Q will beat them, hands down.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


1.58 instead of 1.58.7

OR THEY ARE ALL FAKE CONSPIRACY!!!!

joking


Don't know. Thats why I asked.


----------



## gplnpsb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


why does Anand have a 8130p ?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...8150-tested/10


They have an 8150, its just shown as an 8130P because they used CPU-Z 1.58. Only CPU-Z 1.58.7 included in the reviewer's kit can correctly determine AMD K15 processor names.

I did some experiments a while ago in a Virtual Machine. I changed the CPUID value to 00600F12h to mimic K15. CPU-Z (prior to 1.58.7) just determined the name based on thread count and previously mentioned names, like AMD FX-4110 for four thread, FX-6110 for six threads, and FX-8130P for eight threads.


----------



## Sainesk

this is good news for my wallet lol









still, look forward to a few more reviews + some folding performance numbers...


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I just feel bad for that guy who sold his i5-2500k setup to go Bulldozer










i sold my 2600K to wait for BD.....

just bought a 8150


----------



## dalastbmills

Just bought my first Intel.


----------



## Usario

EDIT: fail image upload, sorry, please be patient... or not

EDITX2: fixed


----------



## black96ws6

I think this quote from Anand's review sums up BD pretty well:

Quote:



So what do you do if you're buying today? If you have an existing high-end Phenom II system, particularly an X4 970 or above or an X6 of any sort, I honestly don't see much of a reason to upgrade


----------



## djriful

Guess what I'm glad I changed my mind again and wait for the second generation of AM3+ (Wikipedia). First generation might be just junk rebranded Phenom II with smaller die plus more cores. I really hope if it is the windows patch L1 cache if not that's too bad. Intel Ivy Bridge will take the king again. I do not see how AMD is going to catch up but maybe in the second or third generation CPUs.

Again I'm back at holding out my wallet. I need to see a performance overcome Core i7 2nd generation or Ivy bridge CPUs 2700K. Then I'll say time for upgrade otherwise it is not worth to spend $280 mobo and $260 CPU BD for a 10 to 20 percent performance only compare to AMD PII which is already 50% behind Intel already.

Well at least in my case since I only have 890FX and I doubt it will fit the high end 8 cores one.

Asus mention BD support on 890FX. Probably it's for the 4 cores and 6 cores FX series not the 8 cores which strictly requires AM3+ socket.

I might be wrong. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


i sold my 2600K to wait for BD.....

just bought a 8150











I said I felt bad for him, and now you as well.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gplnpsb*


They have an 8150, its just shown as an 8130P because they used CPU-Z 1.58. Only CPU-Z 1.58.7 included in the reviewer's kit can correctly determine AMD K15 processor names.

I did some experiments a while ago in a Virtual Machine. I changed the CPUID value to 00600F12h to mimic K15. CPU-Z (prior to 1.58.7) just determined the name based on thread count and previously mentioned names, like AMD FX-4110 for four thread, FX-6110 for six threads, and FX-8130P for eight threads.


I know what your saying, just seems kind of odd to make such a glaring mistake, but then maybe they were busy with the review ??

I belive they have a 8150, just kind of funny they didn't catch their own screen shot being wrong.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


Guess what I'm glad I changed my mind again and wait for the second generation of AM3+ (Wikipedia). First generation might be just junk rebranded Phenom II with smaller die plus more cores. I really hope if it is the windows patch L1 cache if not that's too bad. Intel Ivy Bridge will take the king again. I do not see how AMD is going to catch up but maybe in the second or third generation CPUs.

Again I'm back at holding out my wallet. I need to see a performance overcome Core i7 2nd generation or Ivy bridge CPUs 2700K. Then I'll say time for upgrade otherwise it is not worth to spend $280 mobo and $260 CPU BD for a 10 to 20 percent performance only compare to AMD PII which is already 50% behind Intel already.

Well at least in my case since I only have 890FX and I doubt it will fit the high end 8 cores one.

Asus mention BD support on 890FX. Probably it's for the 4 cores and 6 cores FX series not the 8 cores which strictly requires AM3+ socket.

I might be wrong. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bulldozer is nothing like K10.5....

it is actually like 200% different.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I said I felt bad for him, and now you as well.











I feel bad for anyone owning SB and being confined to searching though many chips to find one that does higher than 5.5....


----------



## dalastbmills

Why does anyone REALLY need to go above 5.5?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dalastbmills*


Why does anyone REALLY need to go above 5.5?


because you don't stand a chance on the bot with a 54x chip?


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dalastbmills*


Why does anyone REALLY need to go above 5.5?


If you dont know, then why are you on this site? lol


----------



## FallenFaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dalastbmills;15272073*
> Why does anyone REALLY need to go above 5.5?


That's a poor question on this site...


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Bulldozer is nothing like K10.5....

it is actually like 200% different.

I feel bad for anyone owning SB and being confined to searching though many chips to find one that does higher than 5.5....


----------



## Derp

Ready. Willing. Stable. And slow as hell.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


I feel bad for anyone owning SB and being confined to searching though many chips to find one that does higher than 5.5....










Me too, mine won't even do 5.5 qq

I'm just glad my chip does something with the cores and MHz it does have.

Stuck in mud it is not.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Bulldozer is nothing like K10.5....

it is actually like 200% different.


Indeed as I said I may be wrong but t scares me at the moment either the fake non legit result or they are issues between the windows driver + CPU.

I do now its a different architecture but it run small marginally differences from PII 975+ or 6 cores. =[

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kryton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


because you don't stand a chance on the bot with a 54x chip?


That question = a good answer....


----------



## dalastbmills

I understand the site. But why stress your CPU when you can accomplish the tasks at stock speeds? Don't get me wrong, when my i7 gets in, it will not be close to stock. But 5.5GHz? I won't even try 5GHz. I'll be happy with 4.5.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I've been running mine between 4.8 and 5.2GHz for about a year now.

Most of the time it's at 1.6GHz though.


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:



In summary, AMD has brought the fight back to Intel and are competitive again, both in features and in value. They don't win the vaunted performance/watt crown, on the desktop at least, but they do have a serious platform option for you to consider when building your next enthusiast desktop


Rage3d.com

Whaaa? LOL, in all reality though, I was really expecting these FX processors to surpass LGA 1155 in terms of value *and* performance, there goes my hope of having a good ol' rivalry between AMD and Intel, it wasn't looking good from the very beginning though.

Chances of Ivy Bridge staying in the same price bracket as Sandy Bridge? =(


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Me too, mine won't even do 5.5 qq

I'm just glad my chip does something with the cores and MHz it does have.

Stuck in mud it is not.


that's too bad.... 2500K's aren't really that common either for a reason.

Don't feel too bad.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


Indeed as I said I may be wrong but t scares me at the moment either the fake non legit result or they are issues between the windows driver + CPU.

I do now its a different architecture but it run small marginally differences from PII 975+ or 6 cores. =[

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


with SP1, SB got quite a bit faster as they added AVX support.

maybe there is some shred of hope that MS can deliver again...i am seriously doubting it though









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kryton*


That question = a good answer....










mhmm


----------



## black96ws6

How can this be right? Aren't server chips supposed to run LESS power???


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Bulldozer is nothing like K10.5....

it is actually like 200% different.

I feel bad for anyone owning SB and being confined to searching though many chips to find one that does higher than 5.5....










Me too, those SB users are suckers.

Their 2600K's running at 3.4 beat those Amazing dozers running @ 4.6.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Me too, mine won't even do 5.5 qq

I'm just glad my chip does something with the cores and MHz it does have.

Stuck in mud it is not.


You need to come clean, you know want a Faildozer.









Ahhh, my humor is back, I was in shock for a little while there.

This whole thing is still not funny though.


----------



## Disturbed117

tbh, i still might get one for folding.


----------



## Seronx

The surprising thing is even AMDZone is sulking

They want Phenom III and they want it now


----------



## StarDestroyer

if they did a die shrink of pII, won't that still beat current pII in core vs. core things

how can some benches say pII x4 980 is beating FX-8


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


that's too bad.... 2500K's aren't really that common either for a reason.

Don't feel too bad. 
mhmm


Yeah, it is always better to have a insanely clocked chip performing the same as a stock chip.


----------



## AddictedGamer93

Faildozer indeed. I had hope, but it appears it was well wasted.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Speaking of that, how the hell does AMD expect people to buy Trinity if it has the same core count and way less IPC?


Trinity is 1) Piledriver based and 2) launched after a while, so hopefully there's more avx, etc enabled programs around, because BD starts to win as it is in those scenarios.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Yeah,*most* people.,for those that want anything more than a basic laptop/desktop would go to Intel.


And those sales count for crap all, the only reason we even get a chip is because the servers need their own one.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


This is:











Weren't you the one saying how power consumption doesn't matter much before GF110 came out? Or am I getting confused? (Yes, I have a Fermi, let the irony begin.)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Again, it raises the question if they even overclocked properly like we all know to do with Phenom II. The NB clocks play a HUGE role with Phenom II, and if they left NB at stock with Bulldozer, that could explain a lot of the lower performance benchmarks.

Just saying...it is possible.


Very true, I suggest anyone who wants to see the benefit of CPU/NB OCing check this out, I'm curious to see what BD can do with an OCed CPU/NB.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


I don't think the NB is the problem pioneer. I think it's the god awful IPC. Congrads Amd.. You have produced a second gen Netburst


The CPU/NB speeds up the L3 cache, IMC and other components...It improves IPC if the clock in question is the main clock speed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


But,why OC the Bulldozer in the first place when the Intel SB chips were at stock??


You're missing the point, when you OC a Graphics card you generally OC everything equally or you'll get a bottleneck somewhere (eg. OC the Core and Shader an insane amount, but stock memory would give you a memory bottleneck), BD could be the same. That said, unless its *extremely* limited by the CPU/NB, I'm still going IB.

Going from what I know about CPUs, there's two major problems with BD....The cache and the fact AMD went for the highest clock speeds possible. The cache can (somewhat) be fixed with a large CPU/NB overclock, the rest requires a massive redesign, either way, hoping AMDs next major chip is like Conroe was after the P4.








Still, I want to see some CPU/NB OCs on these chips to see what happens, it may be that the cache is getting thrashed or the latency is killing it for all we know. But still, I'm going IB simply because OC results aren't really reliable...I might get a chip capable of a massive CPU/NB OC, I might not, you never know.


----------



## black96ws6

From Hardwarecanucks:

Quote:



In order to hit 4.5Ghz, we set the vCore to 1.50V with some light Load-Line Calibration (LLC). At this voltage, the processor heated up considerably, reaching well over 77Â°C when stress tested by Prime95 In-place large FFTs.

At these settings, the system is idling at around 195W, but when running the aforementioned Prime95 stress test,* it pulls an immense 550W from the socket.* If we also add a fully loaded GeForce GTX 460 1GB to the mix, that number spikes up to almost* 800W*.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


The surprising thing is even AMDZone is sulking

They want Phenom III and they want it now


That'd be much better than F(ail)X.


----------



## QuackPot

Don't worry guys. A simple BIOS update will fix everything...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


Don't worry guys. A simple BIOS update will fix everything...












I'm sorry but to this point there is no saving Fail Xtreme


----------



## AMDrocks

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=203
Hmmmm, Well, Atleast it mostly beats Phenom II

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=288
But it gets smashed by 2500K

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=287
Don't even get me started on 2600K

Yeahhh, I think i will end up going Intel. Even with their low upgradeability...


----------



## denial_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*


Faildozer indeed. I had hope, but it appears it was well wasted.


Faildozer, I like that one







. I was also hoping for healthy competition between AMD and Intel, but.........what else to say? Maybe too much expectation


----------



## Tatakai All

Definitely a *HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT*! I learned a valuable lesson here today, buying into the hype 4 months ago and buying a AM3+ board was a terrible mistake that has come back to bite me in the ass. I hoped for something that had no tangible proof or backing but I blindly jumped in anyway. Lesson learned and now it's time to move on and go with what has the right performance cause I'm done with AMD and their smoke and mirrors. Time to do what I should have done 4 months ago and get a i5 2500k.

To all the intel fanboys shouting "I told you so" and "LMAO'ing", here's a something to think about.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AnandTech*

We all need AMD to succeed. We've seen what happens without a strong AMD as a competitor. We get processors that are artificially limited and severe restrictions on overclocking, particularly at the value end of the segment. We're denied choice simply because there's no other alternative. I don't believe Bulldozer is a strong enough alternative to force Intel back into an ultra competitive mode, but we absolutely need it to be that


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Weren't you the one saying how power consumption doesn't matter much before GF110 came out? Or am I getting confused? (Yes, I have a Fermi, let the irony begin.).


Still believe that, the difference is the power draw difference between my cards and a 6970 overclocked is minor, the 6970 might even consume more power.

We're talking about the consumption difference of an entire gtx 470, 250+ watts, at a lower clock, while doing less work.

Anyone thinking the cpuNB overclock is going to matter for daily usage, read this:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sin0822*


NB clock cannot go above 2800/2700 on air. I have tried, itll be in my OC guide.

NB clock makes almost no difference. but under LN2 you can bump it upto like 4ghz+ which helps with LN2 benching, which i think is what BD will be good at.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


Don't worry guys. A simple BIOS update will fix everything...


I would like to think so.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


From Hardwarecanucks:


Holy mother. It will suck my PSU dries.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chigurh




----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Canis-X*


Got mine!











Where did you find that?


----------



## black96ws6

$260 for an 8150? Microcenter is still selling 2600k's for $279! I would rather eat Cup o Noodles for another week and spend the extra $19 to get the 2600k (no offense)!!


----------



## Blackops_2

Saw this over at anandtech this describes how i feel perfectly lol


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


$260 for an 8150? Microcenter is still selling 2600k's for $279! I would rather eat Cup o Noodles for another week and spend the extra $19 to get the 2600k (no offense)!!


Yeah or a 2500K for $179.

Bulldozer is a rip off.


----------



## denial_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chigurh*












LOL !! Nice "Bulldozer"


----------



## black96ws6

So BD can reliably hit 4.6Ghz and Thubans can do 4Ghz+ with a decent cooler, but due to the -300Mhz performance differential, again, it's not worth it...

4.2Ghz Thuban is about the same as a 4.5Ghz BD...so again...no point in upgrading at all!


----------



## StarDestroyer

I made a full 1 year mistake in the ad for my old pII+MB gear

said it was Jan-2010, but its Jan 2011


----------



## black96ws6

A $159 1090T is still AMD's best bang for the buck chip!!


----------



## Disturbed117

Id like to know who comes up with these ridiculous names, *Bulldozer*,*Sandy Bridge*
Seriously


----------



## Tatakai All

This thread has been pretty much fail for a while with all the bickering about faildozers performance but now that actual reviews are out this thread fails even more. Now if I can only sell this nice mobo that was made for a fail chip. Dangit, it sucks to be me right now!!


----------



## djriful

As I stated. Sticking to my x4 975 until they get their things together. 2nd generation is due in 2012 Q2-3 if the first gen fails miserably

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


This thread has been pretty much fail for a while with all the bickering about faildozers performance but now that actual reviews are out this thread fails even more. Now if I can only sell this nice mobo that was made for a fail chip. Dangit, it sucks to be me right now!!


if you are asking a decent price, i need a new board


----------



## Tatakai All

After this fiasco I'm definitely not waiting for AMD anymore let alone for another revision or whatnot.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


After this fiasco I'm definitely not waiting for AMD anymore let alone for another revision or whatnot.


Right and what are the chances the release will actually be on the dates forecasted with no delays?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


After this fiasco I'm definitely not waiting for AMD anymore let alone for another revision or whatnot.


dude, you got a potential buyer, jump on it NAO.


----------



## Allanon

Sorry I haven't been able to get through all the news.

Has anybody seen benchmarks for a 4.5ghz overclocked BD vs i7-2600k?


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Prox*


TigerDirect


Got a link? I can't find it listed.


----------



## DarthElvis

Waiting and waiting, delay after delay, for this? Sorry AMD, you fail. It's been a good run (since the old T-birds) but I think its Intel time now. You can have your laptop and generic E-machine chips.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allanon*


Sorry I haven't been able to get through all the news.

Has anybody seen benchmarks for a 4.5ghz overclocked BD vs i7-2600k?


i7 2600K uses less power and is 99.99998% faster


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


dude, you got a potential buyer, jump on it NAO.


Lol, I already pm'd him.


----------



## djriful

No wonder why AMD is all quiet? Release of the last 2 X4 975 and X4 980 since they are kinda top end in term of speed? I had mine X4 975 @ 4.6Ghz which was insane on H70 but it's risky high on heat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allanon*


Sorry I haven't been able to get through all the news.

Has anybody seen benchmarks for a 4.5ghz overclocked BD vs i7-2600k?


Yep

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ssor-review/12


----------



## ekg84

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allanon*


Sorry I haven't been able to get through all the news.

Has anybody seen benchmarks for a 4.5ghz overclocked BD vs i7-2600k?


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...-8150-review/9


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Yep

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ssor-review/12


WOW and that is versus a STOCK 2600K.

Sandy Bridges can overclock like beasts too. They should do OC Sandy vs OC FX.


----------



## sequoia464

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chigurh*












Great!!


----------



## soth7676

Well it seems I should dump my CHV for less than what i got it and upgrade to 2600K.... If Ivy doesn't cost a arm and a leg, use that as my backup rig... Sorry AMD this is just overall unacceptable...


----------



## thenerdal

Haven't been on this thread in a while. Just wanted to know if there is a release date yet or if it has been released?


----------



## Allanon

@2010rig, ekg, and any others that might post them, thanks for the links fellas !

Much appreciated, catching up with the news now.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allanon*


Sorry I haven't been able to get through all the news.

Has anybody seen benchmarks for a 4.5ghz overclocked BD vs i7-2600k?


I can't remember what website it was, But stock SB beats OC BD by quite a bit.


----------



## Megacharge

I feel really bad for AMD. If AMD was a person, I'd give them a big hug.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


I feel really bad for AMD. If AMD was a person, I'd give them a big hug.


Then punch them in the gut...

leave them there in the fetal position as you shake your hands with your new friend Intel


----------



## friendlyarrows

Just incase anyone was wondering what socket and boards are compatible. Bulldozer will require the AM3+ socket as well as the 900 series chipsets, the compatibility extends backwards with the socket being compatible with older CPUS.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Allanon*


@2010rig, ekg, and any others that might post them, thanks for the links fellas !

Much appreciated, catching up with the news now.


yw, here's the thread you're looking for, it has all the reviews. 
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ws-thread.html


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Then punch them in the gut...

leave them there in the fetal position as you shake your hands with your new friend Intel


hey, remember your Intel predictions you PM'ed me?

I guarantee you they don't come true, and the prices I sent you definitely will.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



It is hard to find value in the $245 FX-8150 when the X6 1100T retails for a mere $190. That is almost 30% cheaper and you are getting very similar performance in all but the most highly-threaded applications. *With 3 to 4 years of development time, a new manufacturing process, and twice as many transistors as a Phenom II X6, you can't blame us for being slightly disappointed.* Heck, the FX-8150 doesn't even consume less power than the Phenom II X6 1100T.


The 1090T can actually be found for $159 these days, it's basically the same as the 1100T...


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


hey, remember your Intel predictions you PM'ed me?

I guarantee you they don't come true, and the prices I sent you definitely will.


I said wait for Vishera/Piledriver and Windows 8 gawd

But this year is the year of Intel and most likely the next and the next and the next

Especially since Ivy Bridge can turn off Hyperthreading, turn off Cores and finally only has a power consumption for 50 watts and at 10GHz only a power consumption of 200 watts


----------



## Megacharge

If I were JF, I think I'd feel a little uncomfortable posting in here now.


----------



## el gappo

I still have LOL WUT written on my arm. Quite appropriate I think.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


If I were JF, I think I'd feel a little uncomfortable posting in here now.


Tell me about it. Check this out.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


I thought I made my point a while ago about any benchmark or any review that shows up before launch.

The people that get the real final silicon are reviewers who sign NDAs. People who don't sign NDAs and don't get final silicon probably have engineering samples if they have parts at all.

None of that has changed.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I look forward to the 12th when real reviews come out.

Better yet I look forward 'till OCN'ers get their hands on these CPU's, and we get their feedback 1st hand. I wonder what you will say to us if retail products closely resemble the leaks that have been deemed fake, or not indicative of final performance.

This week will be very interesting.


====================

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


I still have LOL WUT written on my arm. Quite appropriate I think.


Are you guys still doing that bench competition?


----------



## 66racer

At least I wont go broke rushing to upgrade from my 1100. Little disappointed but guess it could have been worse, I can now sleep soundly knowing the facts







Will I buy it, YES, but it no longer is at the top of the list, I think sli or a nice 580 will come first.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/G...id=email111012

You can buy them now....

I'm not touching the thing just for those who dare step into the...I should have known...phase


----------



## flashtest

Seriously, some sites compare it to a 2400 @190$ and it still fails...
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4955/41709.png
where did the $245 suggested retail price (U.S.) come from then ?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Are you guys still doing that bench competition?


Yup, may not be on the 15th tho if those guys can't get chips.

I have mine and will be benching live regardless over the weekend.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up. cause I just got back from a funeral


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up. cause I just got back from a funeral


Welcome back to another funeral










You will be missed AMD

R.I.P.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up. cause I just got back from a funeral


You may want to go back. 
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ws-thread.html


----------



## 66racer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up. cause I just got back from a funeral


Not much better than an 1100t, still slower than the 2500k in most areas


----------



## BallaTheFeared

It eats gas (power) like a rocket car, but has the speed of a moped.

Power consumption:










Performance:


----------



## Domino

What a disappointing chip. Worse then Fermi launch.


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up. cause I just got back from a funeral


It is like when you are constipated.............waiting forever and when it is finally released, it stinks.


----------



## Jinny1

So were AMD false advertising when all those benchmarks showed games such as dirt 3 performing a lot better than 2600K??

BUNCH LIARS!!! WE can clearly see 2600k smashed 8150 in dirt 3 and other games


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Ugh looking at Dem benchmarks. Guess the fanboys were right to unleash the hate.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


So were AMD false advertising when all those benchmarks showed games such as dirt 3 performing a lot better than 2600K??

BUNCH LIARS!!! WE can clearly see 2600k smashed 8150 in dirt 3 and other games


in their demos they were run at 2560x1600

most reviews show them being pretty even with intel at such a resolution

Intel lied when they said they weren't paying off major OEMs to not use their competitor's product.


----------



## thenerdal

Looking at this thread after I returned I'm guessing BD has been released already and it's a huge dissapointment? D:


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Looking at this thread after I returned I'm guessing BD has been released already and it's a huge dissapointment? D:


Yep that pretty much sums it up.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


in their demos they were run at 2560x1600

most reviews show them being pretty even with intel at such a resolution

Intel lied when they said they weren't paying off major OEMs to not use their competitor's product.










This coming from a proud Bulldozer owner.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


Yep that pretty much sums it up.


Noooooooooooooooo. Should I switch to Intel if I ever do upgrade then? D:


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Noooooooooooooooo. Should I switch to Intel if I ever do upgrade then? D:


Yes.
BEERS ALL ROUND!


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Looking at this thread after I returned I'm guessing BD has been released already and it's a huge dissapointment? D:


not really

depends on how you define dissapoint.

people expected it to outperform everything by a mile were disapointed.

People that expected it to perform how it was priced (like me) are overjoyed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This coming from a proud Bulldozer owner.










indeed


----------



## Diabolical999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


WHAT HGAPPENED? IS IT BAD? Someone sum it up.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Im so distraut I cannot sleep.. can someone please slit my throat now.. Apparently competition DOESNT breed excellence. Everything we learned in macroeconomics was a lie.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


not really

depends on how you define dissapoint.

people expected it to outperform everything by a mile were disapointed.

People that expected it to perform how it was priced (like me) are overjoyed.

indeed










I wanted it to outperform Intel or at least come close, but not that much. I just wanted to see if it was an huge update.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Anyone thinking the cpuNB overclock is going to matter for daily usage, read this:


Wow, what a massive fail, even my damaged B50 (PSU blew up) can get a 2.8Ghz NB clock easy.


----------



## AMDrocks

I want to buy a FX 8150 but the power consumption is worrying me, I want to overclock, But 580w load when OCed!?!?!

Something has to be wrong, Should go back and revise a little, Now imagine if they didn't delay and we had it released back in July (or was it june?), It would of been much worse than phenom II...


----------



## 2010rig

The Bulldozer Summary

  
 You Tube


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


people expected it to outperform everything by a mile were disapointed.

People that expected it to perform how it was priced (like me) are overjoyed.


A side effect of Moore's Law is that:
If something has more transistors it usually is faster than something that has less transistors

Orochi 8 core = 2~ Billion Transistors
Sandy Bridge 4 core = 1~ Billion Transistors

What went wrong?
If you look at it....everything about the CPU is out of whack
L1, L2 and L3 latencies are huge

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...x8150-tested/2

The CPU has poor decoding performance and a floating point core choking on L2 latency which doubled over L2 of a Phenom II core and

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...x8150-tested/6


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


not really

depends on how you define dissapoint.

people expected it to outperform everything by a mile were disapointed.

People that expected it to perform how it was priced (like me) are overjoyed.


Makes no sense when 2500k spanks it all the way, and being a lot cheaper.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I want to buy a FX 8150 but the power consumption is worrying me, I want to overclock, But 580w load when OCed!?!?!


that is entire system load you would totally melt any sort of VRM before you could draw that much from a proc

(well, maybe not all, but most boards would die)


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I want to buy a FX 8150 but the power consumption is worrying me, I want to overclock, But 580w load when OCed!?!?!


And that's not even including a separate video card.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Whoops...


----------



## Izvire

Just like I thought, almost a year late to the party, and still inferior to Intel.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I thought you guys might enjoy this one...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr. Zoidberg*


From Hardware Canucks with FX-8150 @ 4.6 GHz:

"At these settings, the system is idling at around 195W, but when running the aforementioned Prime95 stress test, it pulls an immense 550W from the socket. If we also add a fully loaded GeForce GTX 460 1GB to the mix, *that number spikes up to almost 800W*."

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-19.html


Thanks Dr. Z..

Probably why they all got Crosshair V's, to handle the power draw... lolz


----------



## StarDestroyer

I went to the kjetbhkj, indirectly learned lekjhn', i firgured that, but still m;kjq4b5yuq4[ou6buyq4

she looks good though


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I thought you guys might enjoy this one...

Thanks Dr. Z..

Probably why they all got Crosshair V's, to handle the power draw... lolz


the socket is talking about the wall.....


----------



## BallaTheFeared

800x.85= 680 watts


----------



## Seronx

Darn it is protected image move as long


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


800x.85= 680 watts


yep, AC to DC conversion requires energy too


----------



## Phantom123

I was going to buy the FX 8120 too but after looking at the power consumption, like everyone else, i was shocked. Waited 10+ months but sadly I had to buy the 2500k about 30 minutes ago. It saddens me very much, but power consumption and performance are major factors for me.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Darn it is protected image move as long


I got ya bro.










I actually miss Windows 8, IE10 just feels so much faster than Chrome


----------



## imh073p

Wow the power consumption is....... And the i3 2100 beats it in several tests? Not sure how they could dupe the whole AMD community into buying Faildozer but that's not healthy competition for Intel. Its a slaughter, and all for the low low price of way higher than a 2500K? Not sure I have this right. I was hoping to see AMD woop up on SB so we can have some price drops. Listen..... I hear the sound of 2500K price hikes.


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I thought you guys might enjoy this one...

Thanks Dr. Z..

Probably why they all got Crosshair V's, to handle the power draw... lolz


 They shoulda used MSI. At least they could have had some fireworks.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I got ya bro.










I actually miss Windows 8, IE10 just feels so much faster than Chrome











I still can't believe it can increase the score of 1 core and not increase the score of the 8 core

Cinebench R10 must not scale after 1 core then


----------



## catharsis

amd produced netburst 2.0. I am extremely disappointed. I'm not sure if I should get a 8120 anymore, the power consumption especially worries me. I need to sleep on this. The inner fanboy in me still wants to go amd, and the fact that I use photoshop and do video editing is kinda wanting to keep me on their side. But the facts are just really hard to ignore and I might finally go intel once again. Something I haven't done in a very long time







.


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

I found this interesting:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...150326494.html

Now bulldozer can be added to the list.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

lol


----------



## Seronx

The good news

AMD Orochi 8 core does indeed have a better IMC


----------



## AMDrocks

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 58 (15 members and 43 guests)
AMDrocks, burwij, catharsis, creisti86, ducktape, ElectroGeek007, flashtest, Jesse D, Jinny1, Megacharge, MountainDewMadOScar, MrRogers, StepanPepan, Tatakai All, tjangel07

Not surprised at all, Decreased numbers 200%


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

^AMDrocks heyyyyyy ;D
Well. I foresee this to be a good day.
How about that 3960x? Looks like I'll be getting one.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


^AMDrocks heyyyyyy ;D
Well. I foresee this to be a good day.
How about that 3960x? Looks like I'll be getting one.


3930K or 3960X

$500 vs $1000

Hmmmm


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


3930K or 3960X

$500 vs $1000

Hmmmm


Have a job.
live at home.
Have money to spend.
I'll buy what I want.


----------



## 2010rig

3930K FTW









Current rig going to the wife.


----------



## AMDrocks

I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


3930K FTW









Current rig going to the wife.


JUST WANT MY QUAD CHANNEL RAM.
And I love the board layout. So sexy. 
SO MUCH SATA.. Want now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


My money is on nothing honestly..


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


I don't think we'll see it for awhile, and all we'll get is spin anyways like we have for the last year.

IPC increased guys.









Disclaimer: I meant when you use the new unused instruction sets, it's actually slower than Phenom II when you use the instruction sets of today.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


Something along the lines of.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010JF-AMDrig*

I don't comment on client.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I don't think we'll see it for awhile, and all we'll get is spin anyways like we have for the last year.

IPC increased guys.









Disclaimer: I meant when you use the new unused instruction sets, it's actually slower than Phenom II when you use the instruction sets of today.


Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=137014


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=137014


Oh Bl bro..


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


I doubt that would happen soon, would like to see him commenting on those:

Tom's Hardware--
So, let's say someone puts Core i5-2500K and FX-8150 in front of you. The Core i5 costs $220 bucks, and the FX runs $245. Which one do you buy?
If it's me, I'm going with the Core i5. I gave the -2500K a Tom's Hardware Recommended Buy award back in January, and I stick by that recommendation almost a year later.

AnandTech--
So what do you do if you're buying today? If you have an existing high-end Phenom II system, particularly an X4 970 or above or an X6 of any sort, I honestly don't see much of a reason to upgrade. You're likely better off waiting for the next (and final) iteration of the AM3+ lineup if you want to stick with your current platform. If you're considering buying new, I feel like the 2500K is a better overall part.

Guru3D--
Concluding then. The reality remains that for me personally I would have preferred a faster per core performing AMD quad-core processor rather then an eight-core processor with just 'nice' per core performance. Who knows, for you, that just might not be the case. It's going to be interesting to see what you as an end-user will prefer. Overall though, the AMD FX 8150 is a processor we can recommend for the upper segment of mid-range computers at best.

[H]--
But if you asked me if I will be putting an AMD FX in my next personal system I would probably have to tell you, "No." If I had to build a system for myself tonight, it would have a Intel Core i7-2600K in it. I can't point to the AMD FX-8150 or FX-8120 being a bad choice, but I just do not think either of those is the best choice.

Bjorn3d--
Despite the nice specifications, there are some considerations we must take into account. Even though we say "eight cores", and AMD uses that term also, the Bulldozer architecture doesn't actually have eight true cores. The Bulldozer module's resource sharing of execution and front-end units means the FX chip will be weak in several ares of computing. Despite having the Turbo speed of 4.2GHz, the CPU falls very short in single-threaded (or even lightly-threaded) processes, even below the old Phenom II CPU's at lower clockspeed. We saw an example of this in some games, and in benchmarks like AIDA64, where the low floating point performance of the FX CPU resulted in performance lower than almost any other CPU.

HardwareCanucks--
AMD are quick to boast that Zambezi has two 2 additional cores, a huge chunk of cache, and a lot more megahertz than the competition, but at the moment it doesn't seem like they have been able to squeeze much extra performance from all those bits and bobbles. As it stands, in most instances, AMD are lagging behind Intel when it comes to performance per dollar, performance per watt and performance per square millimeter of die space.

Hexus--
3/5

VR-Zone--
6.5/10

Edited for spacing.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=137014


About the exact same time the NDA lifted.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


About the exact same time the NDA lifted.











Indeed, I bet he knew what our reactions would be like....


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


About the exact same time the NDA lifted.










He could've known all along just how bad Bulldozer was going to be. 
Left us in the dark.


----------



## 2010rig

To Add to the Recaps:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bit-Tech - AMD FX-8150 Conclusion*

Whether or not we're correct about Bulldozer really being a server and workstation CPU, it's terribly unsuited to the kinds of software we're currently using on consumer PCs. This software is still heavily reliant on single-thread performance, and the FX-8150 just doesn't have that. As such it's woefully slow in a range of everyday applications.

Worse still, it merely had mediocre performance in well-threaded desktop applications that should have played to the more parallel design of the CPU.

The final grievance is the price of the FX-8150 - at Â£205 it's Â£37 more expensive than a Core i5-2500K and only Â£40 cheaper than a Core i7-2600K. It fails to outperform either conclusively, with only some victories over the quad-core i5-2500K in some heavily multi-threaded tasks. But if you're after multi-threaded performance, the Â£40 extra for a Core i7-2600K is more than justified. Perhaps the 6- and 4-core flavours of the FX will prove interesting upgrades, but the FX-8150 definitely isn't.

We therefore feel totally vindicated that at no point did we recommend any bit-tech reader to buy a Socket AM3+ motherboard 'to get ready for Bulldozer.' We merely reviewed these boards on the premise that they were new and that people might wish to buy one as an upgrade for a Phenom II system - we had no idea whether Bulldozer would be good, bad or indifferent, so we urged caution. Turns out we were right: the FX-8150 is a stinker.


PERFORMANCE - 36 / 50
FEATURES - 9 / 15
VALUE - 14 / 35

Score = 59%

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Overclockers3D*

To say we're disappointed is to understate things. It's not that the Bulldozer FX8150 is poor when compared to the LGA1155 processors, it's not good when compared to AMDs own Phenom II X6.

Much has been made of the Bulldozer modules that each contain two cores. *Judging from the performance the reason they've called them modules isn't because each one is like a dual-core processor. It's because each one is about the equivalent to a single Intel core. What on earth are they doing?*









The numbers imply something monumental. It marmalises the Intel on clock speed, cache and number of cores, yet the results show that even the i5-2500K beats it in nearly every test, and the i7-2600K annihilates it to such a degree it's embarrassing. How AMD have the cheek to compare it to an i7-980X in pricing terms is frankly beyond us. If a i5-2500K can make this look merely average, the i7-980X would make it look like something from the stone-age.

In application-based testing the FX8150 just doesn't really get it done, and certainly nothing like it should given its lofty specification. The X6 1095T is just as good and that's older, cheaper and less well-equipped. Gaming results are far kinder and the FX8150 even topped some of our graphs compared to the i5-2500K. On the flip side though the comparitively weak i5-2300 wasn't far behind in newer games and ahead in older ones.


----------



## Seronx

Recap:

  
 You Tube


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


I agree.

- ipc increases! 
- benchmarks before launch are fake! dont trust benchmark on the web cause of "final silicon" and other bullsh....

I dont know if he took people for idiots or if someone of amd took him for idiot and told him lot of bullsh..


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Why did AMD even bother bringing back the FX moniker for something like this?


----------



## 2010rig

Anyone got a link to that video where Bulldozer was faster than the 980X in gaming, and faster then an i5 at encoding?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I seriously want to see a post by JF-AMD, See what he has to say


I wouldn't count on it. It's like slapping someone in the face then taking their sammich and eating it in front of em. Then charging them for it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Indeed, I bet he knew what our reactions would be like....


Yup, I imagine it would be like a slap to the face right before eating a nice sammich, then having said sammich strong armed and eaten in front of me by the slapper and then getting charged for it by alleged slapper.


----------



## Seronx

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *2010rig*   Anyone got a link to that video where Bulldozer was faster than the 980X in gaming, and faster then an i5 at encoding?  
   
 You Tube


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Found this at Bit-Tech:

"The novel Bulldozer design of the FX-8150 seems to be light on performance per core, as our image editing test shows. This test is single-threaded, and the FX-8150 fared extremely poorly with a stock-speed score of 887. *To put that into context, a Core 2 Duo E6700 is 13 per cent faster and a Core i5-2500K is almost twice as fast as the FX-8150 in this kind of situation*."

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...8150-review/11

That is truly pitiful.


----------



## swindle

Oh.

Give that video 24 hours till EOL.

Might just go D/L that now...


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr. Zoidberg*


Found this at Bit-Tech:

"The novel Bulldozer design of the FX-8150 seems to be light on performance per core, as our image editing test shows. This test is single-threaded, and the FX-8150 fared extremely poorly with a stock-speed score of 887. *To put that into context, a Core 2 Duo E6700 is 13 per cent faster and a Core i5-2500K is almost twice as fast as the FX-8150 in this kind of situation*."

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...8150-review/11

That is truly pitiful.


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.


----------



## superj1977

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


I wouldn't count on it. It's like slapping someone in the face then taking their sammich and eating it in front of em. Then charging them for it.

Yup, I imagine it would be like a slap to the face right before eating a nice sammich, then having said sammich strong armed and eaten in front of me by the slapper and then getting charged for it by alleged slapper.


Sammich this...sammich that....are you hungry?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


snip


Thanks, but not that one.

It was a "leaked" video.

IIRC - Bulldozer 81 FPS, 980X 79FPS.
And then they compared it to some unknown i5 processor in rendering.

It was some dude claiming to be from AMD.


----------



## NateN34

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.


I would much rather have less cores, but much more powerful ones instead of more cores, but weak ones.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *superj1977*


Sammich this...sammich that....are you hungry?










Yeah I could go for a sammich about now.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.


I'm just glad Intel was an option and just about every review site disagreed with what you just said.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm just glad Intel was an option and just about every review site disagreed with what you just said.


I don't think any review site said that bd was good at lightly threaded apps.


----------



## tvr

WHY do you work for Intel I don't use YouTube much sorry


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Instead of AMD building a processor with many cores with low performance, they should have focused more on building a processor with a moderate number of complex cores. Most likely, it would have worked out better.


----------



## tvr

I think he means what you said about this bit ( I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue)


----------



## AMDrocks

All i want to know is will it bottleneck ultra high end GPUs


----------



## accord1999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.


Higher single-thread performance benefits all applications, higher core counts only benefits work loads that can take advantage of the core. This can be clearly seen by the 2600K, whose exceptional performance per core means that it is strong in virtually every application tested on it, and even in highly threaded benchmarks, has enough grunt to match the 8-core BD.


----------



## etlecho

I think i will buy a fx4100 and see if I can unlock it. That would give som bang for my bucks.

Have to say I'm disappointed and I hope they can fix whatever is ailing this...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm just glad Intel was an option and just about every review site disagreed with what you just said.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


I don't think any review site said that bd was good at lightly threaded apps.


I'm so









Don't even know where to start.

What are your primary uses reflex99, you picking this up to fold on?


----------



## Naked Snake

Ups wrong thread.


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

I find it funny that even though AMD has claimed that its module approach is more efficient than Intel's hyper-threading technology, in actuality it isn't. Here's what Xbitlabs had to say:

"As a result, Bulldozer cores do not just work at half the speed of Sandy Bridge cores. In addition to that the performance of the Bulldozer processor module with two cores is even lower than that of a single Sandy Bridge core with enabled Hyper-Threading technology. "

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...0_8.html#sect1


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

it's getting bottle necked guys, the proof is on the reveiws..... when you have a core fully loaded and 6-7 other sitting at 50% thats a scheduling issue somewhere. and not no fault is the processor. its gotta be outside the cpu it self.
most likely a software issue.
windows 7 core scheduling?


----------



## Tatakai All

I was gonna say that the above post is a repost but the 2 other posts that were after it got deleted.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


it's getting bottle necked guys, the proof is on the reveiws..... when you have a core fully loaded and 6-7 other sitting at 50% thats a scheduling issue somewhere. and not no fault is the processor. its gotta be outside the cpu it self.
most likely a software issue.
windows 7 core scheduling?


I keep trying to tell people that but they're too busy whining about something they haven't even purchased yet.


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Bottlenecked or not, AMD had plenty of months to make sure their processor was optimized to run on a variety of software.


----------



## accord1999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


it's getting bottle necked guys, the proof is on the reveiws..... when you have a core fully loaded and 6-7 other sitting at 50% thats a scheduling issue somewhere. and not no fault is the processor. its gotta be outside the cpu it self.
most likely a software issue.
windows 7 core scheduling?


Where do you have this situation? Anyways preliminary testing of Windows 8 shows minor gains. Biggest gains will probably in low-threaded work loads where it is farthest behind.

http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/ar...#axzz1aYKKY9Wd
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...x,3043-23.html


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


it's getting bottle necked guys, the proof is on the reveiws..... when you have a core fully loaded and 6-7 other sitting at 50% thats a scheduling issue somewhere. and not no fault is the processor. its gotta be outside the cpu it self.
most likely a software issue.
windows 7 core scheduling?


Doubt it. My guess is poor CPU design along with the fact that not much apps make full use of 8 core CPUs.

AMD would have been better off making a much better 6 core than going for a slow 8 core.

God knows what AMD are going to do in a few weeks when the i7 2700k is launched followed by hte x79 platform. If they manage to survive that massacre Ivy Bridge will be waiting to finish them off for good.


----------



## AMDrocks

Ghost thread much...


----------



## Disturbed117

You people this do understand Enthusiasts is not where amd makes there profits Right?


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


I keep trying to tell people that but they're too busy whining about something they haven't even purchased yet.


Sorry this is a monster waiting for an awaking, nobody is paying attention to the one reveiw where it is unequivocally being shown to be bottle necked.
the processor isn't getting fully loaded correctly.
the testers themselves are being blinded by results and not looking at whats going on.
I'll be laughing when somebody actually gets this to load up and it smokes a i7 2600k and you all went flying to the store to get the i7 and me sitting here with a BD zambezi fx and rocking your INTEL RIG OFF A CLIFF.


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


Sorry this is a monster waiting for an awaking, nobody is paying attention to the one reveiw where it is unequivocally being shown to be bottle necked.
the processor isn't getting fully loaded correctly.
the testers themselves are being blinded by results and not looking at whats going on.
I'll be laughing when somebody actually gets this to load up and it smokes a i7 2600k and you all went flying to the store to get the i7 and me sitting here with a BD zambezi fx and rocking your INTEL RIG OFF A CLIFF.


What are you talking about? Countless reviews have shown that bulldozer is a dud. Deal with it.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


You people this do understand Enthusiasts is not where amd makes there profits Right?


They make it in the server market


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


Sorry this is a monster waiting for an awaking, nobody is paying attention to the one reveiw where it is unequivocally being shown to be bottle necked.
the processor isn't getting fully loaded correctly.
the testers themselves are being blinded by results and not looking at whats going on.
I'll be laughing when somebody actually gets this to load up and it smokes a i7 2600k and you all went flying to the store to get the i7 and me sitting here with a BD zambezi fx and rocking your INTEL RIG OFF A CLIFF.


You must be dreaming. Bottleneck, or no bottleneck, it sucks man.

Its hot.

Its power hungry.

It under-performs on everything practical that anyone cares about.

By the time they get it "moving" so to speak, everyone will be rocking Ivy.


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


They make it in the server market










AMD only hold 5% of the server market...


----------



## imh073p

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


You people this do understand Enthusiasts is not where amd makes there profits Right?


Ya mobile and poor gamers lol, JK. I do see the bottleneck now, this might actually be gimping it a bit. I hope. Just doesn't seem right.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


AMD only hold 5% of the server market...


Really? Huh, I can't remember where, But i read they had 40% of server market...

I must be dreamin


----------



## swindle

Nope.

AMD are on deaths door tbh.

I can try and find where I read that, I read so much though...


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

So what would happen if Intel became a monopoly?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


You people this do understand Enthusiasts is not where amd makes there profits Right?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


So what would happen if Intel became a monopoly?


We would all be screwed!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

The government splits up their cpu and gpu (lololololol) operations.

No, I really have no idea... I think they give AMD a bunch of money to try again.


----------



## swindle

You'd pay $1000 for an i5 2500k.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


So what would happen if Intel became a monopoly?


Higher prices. Minimal performance increase. Slowing of development.

Nasty nasty stuff. Though it would let software catch up.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


The government splits up their cpu and gpu (lololololol) operations.

No, I really have no idea...* I think they give AMD a bunch of money to try again.*


The reason amd got money was because intel was paying off
HP,Dell,Sony,etc... To only use there products.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


No, I really have no idea... I think they give AMD a bunch of money to try again.


Hope its this one

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


You'd pay $1000 for an i5 2500k.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Higher prices. Minimal performance increase. Slowing of development.

Nasty nasty stuff. Though it would let software catch up.


Wouldn't the government step in before something like that was to happen though?


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*


Wouldn't the government step in before something like that was to happen though?



Maybe.

Think your government has to much to worry about with financial situations and wars to worry to much about CPU prices...

EDIT: Ah, Auz, Not USA. Still, it applys.


----------



## clickhere.exe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


Sorry this is a monster waiting for an awaking, nobody is paying attention to the one reveiw where it is unequivocally being shown to be bottle necked.
the processor isn't getting fully loaded correctly.
the testers themselves are being blinded by results and not looking at whats going on.
I'll be laughing when somebody actually gets this to load up and it smokes a i7 2600k and you all went flying to the store to get the i7 and me sitting here with a BD zambezi fx and rocking your INTEL RIG OFF A CLIFF.



Quote:



willingly paid for and uses combo of MSi motherboard, seagate hard drive, rippling-timebomb power supplies


Yeah, your opinion on hardware seems trustworthy.


----------



## whemian

@JF AMD

Bulldozer became a dissapoinment in desktop market. almost all reviewers say this.. may i ask why did your engineers designed a chip that is for mostly servers not clients.. there is ipc decrease compared to phenom !!!!

i am sure opterons will enjoy scalable applications which server market offers however client side doesnt enjoy mutithreaded cpu much and sad thing is 4core sandbridge can outperform bulldozer in some highly threaded bencies.

sorry but bulldozer design is flawed for DT and intel wins this round clearly. lets hope that opterons do better to make the situation of bulldozer better as it is becoming an epic fail..


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swindle*


Maybe.

Think your government has to much to worry about with financial situations and wars to worry to much about CPU prices...

EDIT: Ah, Auz, Not USA. Still, it applys.


Aus is doing alright.









Reading through previous posts on this thread, watching JF AMD get smashed buy everyone.


----------



## Pedros

... why the hell ... every time i try to write AMD it comes as MAD ... damn keyboard ( eheh )

So... this was a big disappointment. I was thinking on going green ... but not yet i guess.
How the hell do the AMD marketing team uses the FX brand for this mediocre CPU ?

That, my friends, i wasn't expecting. Yes, it has innovative features, but all in all what's really important is how powerful, cool and power hungry it is ...

So, a new design, from a "green team", that needs lots of watts, it's warmer and it's not that powerful ... meh...

Again, this cpu will let you have high performance in desktop and gaming, no doubt... but... it's a disappointment when you see the big picture and my guess is that AMD won't have 50% of the profits they expected when talking about the enthusiast market.


----------



## Naturecannon

Not sure why everyone is so surprised. Saw hints of poor performance coming since June. AMD had it written all over their backs (never would show their face). You all owe Orb an apology, he is actually more credible than AMD now









AMD, why the FX branding? SUX-8150 is more fitting!!! 5+ years in the making for wut???

The kicker, posted from elsewhere but oh so true:

Quote:



*What we have been promised:*
-higher or equal IPC (AMD HC22 presentation, AMD bulldozer blog,JF blog and posts)
-more cores(33% more)
-more clocks
-overall 30-50% more performance in the same TDP envelope than previous design

*What we got as a final product:*
-lower IPC,ranging from 10 to 25%!
-more "weak threads" that in many workloads barely beat X6 at lower clock ( weak threads are direct result of much lower IPC than K10even 4.2Ghz Turbo is not enough to offset this)
-higher clocks with much higher power draw under load (this can be GloFo's mistake for all we know)
- overall around 10-15% more performance vs 1100T

End result: we practically got 8 Bobcat cores (which are sometimes slower per clock than real Bobcat!),higher power draw than 1100T which can clock rather high (with astronomically high power draw when you do that).


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Poor performance = Fake benchmarks in a video, create gpu bottlenecks, use FX branding to trick your customers.

AMD lower than Intel here IMO... It's one thing to steal/scam your business competitor, it's another to do it to your own loyal consumers.

How many leaks did JF say were fake? All of them... How many turned out to be true? Probably all of them.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Poor performance = Fake benchmarks in a video, create gpu bottlenecks, use FX branding to trick your customers.

AMD lower than Intel here IMO... It's one thing to steal/scam your business competitor, it's another to do it to your own loyal consumers.

How many leaks did JF say were fake? All of them... How many turned out to be true? Probably all of them.


Clearly JF likes to delude the truth


----------



## AMDrocks

Ugh, This ruins my whole plans, I am forced to go Intel...


----------



## Darylrese

My local computer store are listing the fx 8150 at Â£199...very reasonable price. However, I have read a few reviews on it today and it would seem performance is worse than the Hexcore CPU's like 1090T and 1100T???????????????









What a dissapointment!!! So glad I didn't buy a 990FX chipset board if this is true


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Ugh, This ruins my whole plans, I am forced to go Intel...
























You will never regret that.


----------



## QuackPot

You Tube  



 
Video review. Even though the guy is a bit of a tosser.


----------



## jprovido

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Ugh, This ruins my whole plans, I am forced to go Intel...
























it's funny when you read this from a guy named AMDrocks, with a FX avatar and an amd pro-sig.


----------



## QuackPot

I don't want to look like a troll here but, this made me laugh. Hard.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


I don't want to look like a troll here but, this made me laugh. Hard.











Ugh, soooo bad.


----------



## Vesku

Where is the increased IPC over Phenom II, AMD, is it hiding somewhere?


----------



## Darylrese

thats so bad!!! I've always gone with AMD due to price and performance but now looking at this I think i'll fork out and make the change over to Intel!

End of the day it's better just to go with the best performance for price. I dont care who makes it!!!!


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vesku*


Where is the increased IPC over Phenom II, AMD, is it hiding somewhere?


Neverland with Peter Pan.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


it's funny when you read this from a guy named AMDrocks, with a FX avatar and an amd pro-sig.

















Ikr, But AMD have truly failed me.

The high power consumption,poor performance, the hype, the long wait...


----------



## jprovido

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Ikr, But AMD have truly failed me.

The power consumption, performance, the hype...


look at this graph. just horrible...


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Dead thread is dead.


----------



## Evil Penguin

I think now that the product is released this thread should be laid to rest. 
It's been through so much trolling. 
Somewhat deserved at this point.


----------



## swindle

Its over.

/Lock


----------



## csm725

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I think now that the product is released this thread should be laid to rest. 
It's been through so much trolling. 
_*Totally *_deserved at this point.


Fixed









No but seriously...









This says it all, sadly.


----------



## BigCactus

The delays gave good indication to a bulldozer failure. It's no surprise really. I think you are cherry picking benchmarks however. Bulldozer isn't that bad of a chip. I'd buy it if there was a good price.


----------



## -X3-

csm, you're enjoying this, aren't you?


----------



## mav2000

So is this officially the "Fermi" of AMD, the same AMD that made immense fun of the hot and high TDP Fermi...well, well, well, this is called Karma guys...it will always come back to you

I dont think JF AMD will be around for a while after his statement on IPC......

Sad day for AMD guys like me...I hyped it so much in my own head that now I am sad that I will not be buying any new hardware to play with...


----------



## -X3-

Not all fermi GPUs are thermal and power consumption failures


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


thankfully BD wasn't designed for single threaded apps.
I am further thankful that this is 2011, and we no longer have to worry about single threaded apps being an issue.


I think single app tests are to show just how efficient each core is. This is important for using old software.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-X3-*


Not all fermi GPUs are thermal and power consumption failures










Yeah but they delivered in performance.


----------



## csm725

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-X3-*


csm, you're enjoying this, aren't you?










Course I am









Quote:



Originally Posted by *-X3-*


Not all fermi GPUs are thermal and power consumption failures










My Fermis are fine and very power efficient


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

I never thought I'd end up saying this but, after all of the deceit is revealed in the settling dust...this is just as underhanded as anything Intel has done in the past. My only hope is that VIA steps up their game significantly. Until that moment I won't be supporting a company that has personally screwed me, and is continually trying to hide the truth of the matter in their marketing vid on youtube.

You might not think that matters much as a corporate entity, but I built +/- 300 AMD systems for sale over the last year. This year, I will be making every effort not to sell a single one past getting rid of my current inventory.

My only loyalty lie in the fact that I thought I was doing business with the lesser evil, and that has been proven patently false. IPC increases, except when IPC deceases...and higher clocks speeds don't even overcome the IPC deficit vs. last gen AMD cpu's. Proof is in the pudding, so to speak. :/

Mayhap, in small part, we were at fault for thinking that JF-AMD was referring to Nehalem (or even hopefully SB) arch's when it was said that the integer performance was approximately 80% of traditional core architectural performance. Never once was it indicated that they actually meant K10. Yet, that is what we were suggested to believe. This, falls patently short of all of them to a pathetic degree, in point of fact.

I won't say that I'll never buy AMD products again, but I will tell you it will take a solid lead performance wise before I ever so much as glance in their general direction.


----------



## AMDrocks

Well, This thread has lived it's life


----------



## Evil Penguin

666k views in this thread.


----------



## twich12

seriously annoyed and disappointed i already have a CHV but bye bye AMD


----------



## AMDrocks

Ugh, What happened, I bet it was the whole modules thing, And the shared resources, And lack of x87 code


----------



## BigCactus

AMD's statement with Bulldozer is this: They don't care about being competitive in the enthusiast segment. That is not their focus, and from a business perspective, it's a smart choice.


----------



## AMDrocks

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=88

well, at least it is better than my X4 955


----------



## 12Cores

I am not as disappointed as most, the prices are still very cheap especially for the 4 and 6 cores. I cannot get my 1055T past 4ghz, I would pick up a FX 6100 just to see how far I could push it. Looking to forward to see what people can do with these with water cooling.


----------



## AMDrocks

Huh, Bored
Somebody has to make convo

EDIT: Ok, I will start convo...
Would you recommend Bulldozer to people?


----------



## Cyclonic

Last time i bought AMD, seriously what is this crap? Now stuck with a top end Mobo sigh.


----------



## jivenjune

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


AMD's statement with Bulldozer is this: They don't care about being competitive in the enthusiast segment. That is not their focus, and from a business perspective, it's a smart choice.


Which is confusing since they label it as "Black," "Unlocked" processors--a naming schema typically associated in the enthusiast segment. Even the whole tin can, black box, water cooling get-up seems to be aimed at enthusiast. Then, we have the whole extreme cooling demonstrations they pulled off and so forth which again scream that they are marketing this to enthusiasts.


----------



## jivenjune

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Huh, Bored
Somebody has to make convo

EDIT: Ok, I will start convo...
Would you recommend Bulldozer to people?


No, I wouldn't.

A lot of my brother's friends are considering upgrading their rigs, but they aren't exactly savy on tech specs, benching and so forth. They'd probably see an eight-core processor and think that it's way better for gaming than their current Phenom II x4s.

I honestly feel obligated to at least inform them of the results of Bulldozer before they make a purchase they regret, and that by itself saddens me. It shouldn't have to be like that at all.


----------



## QuackPot

So it the saving grace BIOS update out yet?


----------



## Disturbed117

netburst all over again


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


netburst all over again










It's like NetBurst and Barcelona mated.


----------



## BigCactus

JF-AMD was obviously not in the loop of the know over at AMD, so you can't blame the guy.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


JF-AMD was obviously not in the loop of the know over at AMD, so you can't blame the guy.


I don't blame him at all, He has nothing to do with BD.


----------



## Flippy125

I'll post some benches when it gets here


----------



## BigCactus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


I'll post some benches when it gets here










It's gonna be a good chip that will perform great. I'd buy it if a good bundle comes out for it.


----------



## radaja

this guy at XS's did some tests with disabling every other core so each module only uses 1 core,therefore doesn't share resources,and it looks like the 2 module/4 core performance is a little better,or you can look at it like CMT isnt as good as what AMD claimed,maybe even worse than SMT?i dont know but something went horribly wrong with BD and AMD botched this launch big time
AMD FX "Bulldozer" Review - (4) !exclusive! Excuse for 1-Threaded Perf.

tweaks cant come soon enough from AMD on this new uarch i say


----------



## Flippy125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


It's gonna be a good chip that will perform great. I'd buy it if a good bundle comes out for it.


Yeah, I don't get all the hate. The benches show it performs as well as or better than a 1100T (other than single threaded) with much better overclocking potential. Yes, it was a disappointment compared to what they were promising, but I am still quite excited to throw this in my system


----------



## liberato87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


IPC will be higher
Single threaded performance will be higher

That is all we can say at this point.


oh yes! you were right!
thank you!

and also you were right while stating that the benches were fakes! those benches were better than the official review!


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flippy125*


Yeah, I don't get all the hate. The benches show it performs as well as or better than a 1100T (other than single threaded) with much better overclocking potential. Yes, it was a disappointment compared to what they were promising, but I am still quite excited to throw this in my system


Athlon X2 to Phenom was a much bigger leap.

Phenom to Phenom II was a much bigger leap.

It may perform as well or better, but sometimes the 1100T outperforms it. The 1100T costs a lot less, and uses less power even when overclocked vs. overclocked. This is why it's disappointing.


----------



## Disturbed117

JF-AMD Emerges, lol


----------



## scotty453

JF better post, i want some closure before i fall into depression.


----------



## radaja

so it seems those who still will buy BD,like me now would need to buy a FX-8150 and disable one core in each module to get the best performance out of it,which doesnt bother me much except i was hoping to buy the FX-4170 but that wont make sense now because i would need to run it as a dual core,so i will end up paying for a Fx-8150 and getting a semi-decent quad core if the findings of the guy at XS's is true.i will wait until he or someone else verify's this.shared resources really kills AMD's new chip it seems.


----------



## yukon

He left.


----------



## AMDrocks

Ahhhh damn, He left


----------



## imh073p

Poor poor sad AMD, y u no got make cpu faster than old cpu?


----------



## Wr3ckin_Cr3w

Quote:



Originally Posted by *imh073p*


Poor poor sad AMD, y u no got make cpu faster than old cpu?


Troll harder.


----------



## radaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wr3ckin_Cr3w*


Troll harder.


he really is just stating the truth at this point


----------



## mav2000

I think JF is also to blame...if I didnt know about the product, then why start this blog and why say IPC will be better...blah blah blah....


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



he really is just stating the truth at this point


please don't tell me that's the case.....
cuz that is just rediculous


----------



## twich12

im just pissed that single thread performance was supposed to be better.... and its actually worse!


----------



## AMDrocks

I wonder why JF-AMD logged out


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *twich12*


im just pissed that single thread performance was supposed to be better.... and its actually worse!


Seriously, this. I feel like AMD just took a giant crap on the FX name (and us too) with this release. It's like the Agena/Barcelona release...but worse. At least they were an improvement on prior arch's. Comparing it to the Netburst fiasco isn't quite a strong enough comparison either.

I've gotten a headache from reading all this depressing reviews... :/


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


I couldn't pick whether to reward a company for making a CPU that is worse than the current gen,or a company for their shady business practices.


same dilema im in .....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


This saddens me. A lot...










want a hugg ??


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I'm curious,
I am very, very curious
if any of the reviewers bothered to overclock the CPU-NB.


Interested in this, i think about how dependant pII was of the NB OC

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I wonder if any of the old OC tricks for phenom will work on BD???, its not the same uarch. Either way, I wanna see how the linux kernel behaves before condeming it to hell and a hand basket. Certainly we all would have liked to have seen more performance from BD uarch, but it could improve on the next spin, bios and microcode changes.

either way, it does seem a bit overpriced with this first batch of review for its performance.


Overpriced, yes, but it was just released, tis to be expected.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*


So did any of the testers get into anything other than changing the multi? (I admit I only skimmed). I wonder if the results will be different when _*we*_ get these chips. Is there info out anywhere on safe voltages / temps or anything like that?


Haven't found yet. This is why I like user reviews









Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


/w a cpuNB oc the power draw is over 9000.


+1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


LOL. I want to see those benchmarks NAO, maybe all these reviewers got it wrong.









Thanks for giving me something to laugh at.

Now, back to the reviews I go, they make me cringe.

<<<<<< So was this guy.









I don't want to see AMD's stock tomorrow. 
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:AMD


take a loot at the stock again, it actually went up!
*watches it continue to go up*
*then down*
*then up*

stock prices are fun to watch









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Demoralized is the legion of AMD!

Legion of AMD take action civil disobedience is the only WAY!!!


#occupyamd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *QuackPot*


Don't worry guys. A simple BIOS update will fix everything...


yes, and driver pakages too














.

------------------------

good god you guys post a-lot. I've got almost 800 posts in this thread and the review thread to go through. There is no way I can catch up, so I'm going to start skimming.

Now get back to work!
tl:dr
BD launched, nothing special, move along: >.> <.< ;.; >.> <.<
tl;drv2
I'm not happy with it, but it's what I expected, and it looks like a blast to OC. I like turning knobs...


----------



## Codycjd

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

Has anyone seen this review? Is it credible? It shows the 8150 doing not all the bad against the i7-2600k.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


JF works for Amd. He was fed by Amd himself to lie to every amd fan on this forum and to hype up bulldozer. In a word he screwed you all into buying AM3+ when the product itself sucks.


Posted lastnight and it couldn't be anymore true.


----------



## 66racer

Can't wait to see how well the 6 core BD chips compare to current x6, who knows maybe its more efficient and better overclocker than the 8core ones


----------



## newnub123

nice it is out ok it is not the bets but i can only say 1stGEN 32nm vs 3rdGen intel hmmmm
so think again about u post i say for the first gen 32nm it is great it boost frist gen SB away and second only 3rdgen is a littel bit stronger but AGAIN IT IS 1ST(AMD) VS 3rdGEN(intel) ps intel SB-e still has stepping problems with C1 stepping in server part


----------



## 66racer

Lets remember just because it doesn't trample a 2600k doesn't mean its a waist. The imc obviously supports faster memory and who knows if the reviewers pushed them hard. Few said 5ghz on h2o easy too


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


Can't wait to see how well the 6 core BD chips compare to current x6, who knows maybe its more efficient and better overclocker than the 8core ones


Doubt it. It sucks as it is given the fact it's been in a few benchmark charts.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


Lets remember just because it doesn't trample a 2600k doesn't mean its a waist. The imc obviously supports faster memory and who knows if the reviewers pushed them hard. Few said 5ghz on h2o easy too


Its a waste dude.

I doubt JF will show his face in this thread ever again


----------



## uncholowapo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15276020*
> Posted lastnight and it couldn't be anymore true.


Poor guy


----------



## crizthakidd

they are cheap budget chips at least. just saw a deal on tigerdirect with one with a nice graphics card mobo psu, ect for like 500 bucks and it compares to my 800$ rig it was nuts people can do more for less it just isnt gonna top out the high end chips today xD


----------



## fishhawk

I have built systems for just over 15 years and have seen so much tech come and go and so many companys choose a new road to take to bring out something new. All AMD did was to create something new they can expand on and have future use with. TO BUILD ON, i as yet have not seen anything any were that AMD stated they were going to kick INTELS ASS, in fact the reveiws i am reading all over about BD is putting BD exactly were AMD wanted for now, in the i5 2600k room, it was never intended to compare or beat the i7, that was brought on only by forum users across the computeing world, and if anyone thinks intel is not takeing a good look at the new bd, well all i can say is please take off your blinders.

P.S. Yes i also think intel is a great product too.


----------



## Wbroach23

Question Does anyone know if theres any benchies with mem at 1866 or higher I thought I read you wouldnt really get much better performance with these unless you were running 1866 or higher? again I think I read that somewhere dont remember where though I only see them running 1333 and 1600 I want 1866 or moar.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;15272881*
> I wanted it to outperform Intel or at least come close, but not that much. I just wanted to see if it was an huge update.


I wanted it to even out perform its previous generation in everything. It is worse then a PII sometimes, even in games.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishhawk;15276191*
> I have built systems for just over 15 years and have seen so much tech come and go and so many companys choose a new road to take to bring out something new. All AMD did was to create something new they can expand on and have future use with. TO BUILD ON, i as yet have not seen anything any were that AMD stated they were going to kick INTELS ASS, in fact the reveiws i am reading all over about BD is putting BD exactly were AMD wanted for now, in the i5 2600k room, it was never intended to compare or beat the i7, that was brought on only by forum users across the computeing world, and if anyone thinks intel is not takeing a good look at the new bd, well all i can say is please take off your blinders.
> 
> P.S. Yes i also think intel is a great product too.


The only place that bulldozer competes is in multithreaded apps. In gaming it gets slaughtered. Intel has no interest in the module design. Why would they when there current design is dominating the market with performance and low power consumption?


----------



## Dmac73

Anyone who was going for an FX build on a budget has NO REASON not to get a used 1366 mobo and i7 here on OCN's marketplace. Hell even 1156 and a used 860 will run you under 250$. For mobo AND cpu.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15276263*
> The only place that bulldozer competes is in multithreaded apps. In gaming it gets slaughtered. Intel has no interest in the module design. Why would they when there current design is dominating the market with performance and low power consumption?


Exactly ^ that and there were plenty of slides that AMD showed of the 8150 "outperforming" the 2600k and even the 980x. I would say they directly aimed it at that especially with the FX name coming back.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15276308*
> Anyone who was going for an FX build on a budget has NO REASON not to get a used 1366 mobo and i7 here on OCN's marketplace. Hell even 1156 and a used 860 will run you under 250$. For mobo AND cpu.


I would but i'm waiting for SB-E, i want quad channel ram.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronage/6236849263/

lol


----------



## fishhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15276263*
> The only place that bulldozer competes is in multithreaded apps. In gaming it gets slaughtered. Intel has no interest in the module design. Why would they when there current design is dominating the market with performance and low power consumption?


OMG,,like i said please show me were amd said they would kick intels ass, and futher more, please think abit befor you answer -it is new tech, if anything intels is looking at how to improve it, are you for real? And no it does not get slaughtered. I know how much you love intel beleive me i have seen your mega posts all over in every thread possible,lol. All i was saying is they are were they wanted to be, the consumer is the one that created all the hype. Please go back and read some of the better reveiws that came out to day at the more respected places. You will see them also saying, it may not have lived up to what everyone was hopeing but it is a step in the right direction and they are recomending it as a very good upgrade option.


----------



## Kauke

Awesome benchmark pics. Great performance. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got, AMD. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and fast you can get. Thanks for the motivation.


----------



## Domino

Wonder what JF has to say. Has he even made a single post since the REAL benchmarks have been released?


----------



## AMDrocks

boreddddddd, Someone say something


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15276408*
> boreddddddd, Someone say something


SArxcnpXStE

just add this to a youtube link alot of swearing


----------



## csm725

JF-AMD is back...


----------



## GanjaSMK

People are over reacting. It's not as bad a product as it is made out to be. It does have some drawbacks and so have other launch CPU's. Just because you weren't around for _those_ launches, doesn't make it any less true.

AMD isn't going anywhere. Bulldozer will get better with revision, not worse. Go get some fresh air for a while.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Does anyone remember when sandy-bridge was first released?
jesus have some faith
i'm sure a few months down the road it'll be up to par with everyones' insane expectations.


----------



## n0n44m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276459*
> Does anyone remember when sandy-bridge was first released?
> jesus have some faith
> i'm sure a few months down the road it'll be up to par with everyones' insane expectations.


when everyone praised it for its revolutionary performance and energy usage , which made me order it from the UK despite a €40 shipping fee ?


----------



## Tweeky

AMD Bulldozer ?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276459*
> Does anyone remember when sandy-bridge was first released?
> jesus have some faith
> i'm sure a few months down the road it'll be up to par with everyones' insane expectations.


I remember. People we're hitting 5ghz out of the box and everyone raved about it.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK;15276443*
> AMD isn't going anywhere. *Bulldozer will get better with revision, not worse.*


Yes but the problem is the architecture is NOT an improvement over Thuban!

In fact, if they'd just shrunk Thuban to 32nm and added 2 extra cores, Thuban would kill it in multi-tasking, because Thuban has real, actual cores!

Meanwhile, Intel is not slowing down! SB-E and IVY are almost here...you think a 10% increase "sometime next year" with Piledriver is really going to help when BD is already so far behind in performance?

So Piledriver comes out and has to compete with Ivy and SB-E, at the very least, if not higher clocked versions of those chips.

AMD is going to get slaughtered in the CPU market if it doesn't think of a better product strategy. They really need to go back to the drawing board...


----------



## fishhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276459*
> Does anyone remember when sandy-bridge was first released?
> jesus have some faith
> i'm sure a few months down the road it'll be up to par with everyones' insane expectations.


One of the best posts i have seen:applaud: A person who realy thinks.


----------



## radaja

i cant believe the deniers are still at it,i love AMD just as much as the next guy but AMD really messed this one up and wasnt quite honest with us,and when people arent honest with you they should at least wine and dine you before their dishonesty begins,just like cartman said recently in a southpark episode, but a little more graphic

look it up


----------



## AMDrocks

Ahhh dangit, JF-AMD left again...


----------



## Seronx

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103960

Feels bad man....

Feels bad...

Interlagos just sucks @ 2.5GHz and 140W TDP it would just be easier to wait and keep your contract with Intel to get Sandy Bridge 8 cores and reduce your system power consumption by 1000kWh


----------



## Hazzeedayz

But in all seriousness,
they did mess up but also, we did to
every single one of us AMD users bought into the hype.
it's our fault, not AMD's the the chips did not perform as WE expected.
but i will say one thing, the price to prformance is great...sort of

EDIT:
also, this is exactly why AMD released very little info,
the media built up the height, not AMD....and unless you can give me sources of AMD giving exact performance numbers, then i stand by this.


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

So when is the 8170 coming out?


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Q1 to Q2 next year....possbily longer since there a few bugs to work out


----------



## newnub123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276459*
> Does anyone remember when sandy-bridge was first released?


2010 if me is not wrong


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276604*
> Q1 to Q2 next year....possbily longer since there a few bugs to work out


hopefully the 8170 is a little better, probably not tho


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15276571*
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103960


$279. LoL. Anyone who pays anywhere near that for a Bulldozer needs to have their head examined. You can get a 2600k for the same price at MC right now!!

The only reason I can see going with BD right now is if you're just curious and want to play around with it. Otherwise, the 2500k\2600k chips make so much more sense...


----------



## cmac68

FX 8150= Quad Core
FX 6100= Tri Core
FX 4100= Dual Core

I think AMD marketing did drop the ball on this one. If they just would have marketed them like above I think everyones tone would have changed a bit.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InterestedThirdParty;15276643*
> hopefully the 8170 is a little better, probably not tho


i eman obviously it will be better, the real question is, can it compete...that is what i willing be waiting on


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Codycjd;15276009*
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg1/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-introduction.html
> 
> Has anyone seen this review? Is it credible? It shows the 8150 doing not all the bad against the i7-2600k.


This looks better than other reviews. But what are causing this?

I'm curious


----------



## newnub123

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=831&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=16
looks intressting


----------



## pcclock

Wow the BD FX 8150 performance really sucks huh.


----------



## AMDrocks

Ugh, These benchies all have different numbers!!
I am waiting till a OCN member does some benchmark runs.

I am truly not surprised JF-AMD has not posted anything.
Can't blame the guy though.


----------



## SubZeros Shadow

Soooo.... Almost every single comment so far has been on the 8-core BD.... waaaah it doesnt work like they said it would. BOO-HOO! Brand new architecture and its first time they've gone native 8-core... *** did you all expect?!









What about the 6-core BD? How does it perform? What kind of power consumption? These things would be great to hear about.

So the 8-core is a bust... big deal, get over it (and yourselves)








Have a nice day trolls!


----------



## Canis-X

Well, I actually bought the 8150 last night after reading benchmarkreviews review on the chip (first one that I read) and I thought, cool.....we're in business. After reading the other reviews and then sleeping on it (while sick and going to the pot every hour...







) I got up this morning and actually called to cancel my order....couldn't, already shipped.








I'm worried that even my PSU won't be able to handle the 8150 OC'd on my phase with my two GTX590's.....sigh. So disappoint!! Alas, I don't have the $$ to get a mobo and an i7.

JF....what in the world is going on over there? You can't tell me with any sincerity that you guys worked on this for 4-5 years and spent all of that money on R&D and then have the man-parts to present this to your consumers!?!?!?!?!? I'm absolutely floored!!!!


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nikkopo;15276735*
> This looks better than other reviews. But what are causing this?
> 
> I'm curious


So am I.

oops!

Wasn't supposed to post here anymore.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15276810*
> Well, I actually bought the 8150 last night after reading benchmarkreviews review on the chip and I thought, cool.....we're in business. After reading the other reviews and then sleeping on it (while sick and going to the pot every hour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I got up this morning and actually called to cancel my order....couldn't, already shipped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm worried that even my PSU won't be able to handle the 8150 OC'd on my phase with my two GTX590's.....sigh. So disappoint!! Alas, I don't have the $$ to get a mobo and an i7.
> 
> JF....what in the world is going on over there? You can't tell me with any sincerity that you guys worked on this for 4-5 years and spent all of that money on R&D and then have the man-parts to present this to your consumers!?!?!?!?!? I'm absolutely floored!!!!


Judging by the fact that you have a 1090T running @ 4.5Ghz? I'd say you will see ZERO improvement my friend. I know it sucks to hear that.

Sorry to hear you couldn't cancel your order...can you just send it back once you get it or refuse delivery or something similar?


----------



## Seronx

I wouldn't recommend Interlagos to anyone just knowing how its desktop partner performs

Interlagos performs like a 4c/8t @ 2GHz while Intel has Sandy Bridge-E 8c/16t @ 3.0GHz sucking in less power performing like beasts it would be more worthwhile to just to program for SB-E than Interlagos

Price - Intel
Performance - Intel
Power - Intel


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X;15276810*
> Well, I actually bought the 8150 last night after reading benchmarkreviews review on the chip (first one that I read) and I thought, cool.....we're in business. After reading the other reviews and then sleeping on it (while sick and going to the pot every hour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I got up this morning and actually called to cancel my order....couldn't, already shipped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm worried that even my PSU won't be able to handle the 8150 OC'd on my phase with my two GTX590's.....sigh. So disappoint!! Alas, I don't have the $$ to get a mobo and an i7.
> 
> JF....what in the world is going on over there? You can't tell me with any sincerity that you guys worked on this for 4-5 years and spent all of that money on R&D and then have the man-parts to present this to your consumers!?!?!?!?!? I'm absolutely floored!!!!


Order from tigerdirect? When the Ups or fedex guys arrives just refuse the shipment. It'll go back to wherever you bought it and you'll get a refund.


----------



## Schmuckley

wow..what a killer marketing strategy!..wait 3 years to release a new chip..and have it perform worse than the last-gen.Were they huffing paint? what's the deal?


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15276574*
> But in all seriousness,
> they did mess up but also, we did to
> every single one of us AMD users bought into the hype.
> it's our fault, not AMD's the the chips did not perform as WE expected.
> but i will say one thing, the price to prformance is great...sort of
> 
> EDIT:
> also, this is exactly why AMD released very little info,
> the media built up the height, not AMD....and unless you can give me sources of AMD giving exact performance numbers, then i stand by this.


When a company names a CPU family Bulldozer, they ought to know perfectly what the public impresssion is going to be like. You can't really excuse them for that.

You can view a Bulldozer as a slow workhorse or a strong machine that demolishes things around it. Which one do you think the younger generation is going to think about when they are presented with a Guiness World Record type of hype AMD created ?:

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKN4VMOenNM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKN4VMOenNM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKN4VMOenNM[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Desert Rat

Has anyone seen a comparison between a 1090/1100T and a new 6 core? That would be a better comparison and test to see if there is an improvement in the cpu design. If it cant beat an older 6 core that should be all the proof need to make an educated decision.


----------



## AMDrocks

Well, I have officially spent my whole day in this thread, Since 9:30AM all the way to 2:00AM right now.

I think i need to get some sleep..... Hopefully something interesting happens overnight


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desert Rat;15276949*
> Has anyone seen a comparison between a 1090/1100T and a new 6 core? That would be a better comparison and test to see if there is an improvement in the cpu design. If it cant beat an older 6 core that should be all the proof need to make an educated decision.


http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=287


----------



## StuffStuff1

I dont know why it is so expensive to make a chip with a insane amount of power... I mean really. Whats alittle more silicopm and alittle more time in the printer for alittle less revenue but possibly a chance of gaining a larger market share..


----------



## JCPUser

I am disappointed to say the least.

I had high hopes that bulldozer could get near first gen i7 performance in CPU bound games, but not only did they fail to reach that mark, but they also managed to make a processor with worse performance per clock and higher power draw compared to PH II (especially when overclocked).

I was hoping to switch back to AMD when piledriver releases, but with only a projected 10-15% increase over 'dozer I fear that AMD will still be too slow to consider.

This is a sad sad day as an AMD fan.


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15271280*
> *but IPC was suposed to have gone up* .. not down .. that's why im mad ... via bring on an x86 cpu out NAWWW


JF-AMD said that. Not a reliable and relatively unbiased third party.

Your fault for assuming that everything JF-AMD said would be true.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007;15276906*
> When a company names a CPU family Bulldozer, they ought to know perfectly what the public impresssion is going to be like. You can't really excuse them for that.
> 
> You can view a Bulldozer as a slow workhorse or a strong machine that demolishes things around it. Which one do you think the younger generation is going to think about when they are presented with a Guiness World Record type of hype AMD created ?:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKN4VMOenNM


well i would hope that some people on this site are educated enough to know that GHz doesn't mean much if the CPU is already slow.
am i wrong to to assume that most of you were not blown away by the bulldozer record?
cuz i hope i am right considering this is an OVERCLOCKING forum.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15277042*
> JF-AMD said that. Not a reliable and relatively unbiased third party.
> 
> Your fault for assuming that everything JF-AMD said would be true.


Has he shown his face in this thread yet?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15277063*
> cuz i hope i am right considering this is an OVERCLOCKING forum.


Good luck with dat power consumption
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15277088*
> Has he showed his face in this thread yet?


Nope...

Since Price/Performance/Power is in the negatives


----------



## DarthElvis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15276977*
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=287


Using this link to compare, the 1100t mops the floor with Bulldozer in the price/performance/power consumption category.


----------



## Desert Rat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthElvis;15277144*
> Using this link to compare, the 1100t mops the floor with Bulldozer in the price/performance/power consumption category.


And thats the 8 core model I believe. There no way to defend the suckiness of this cpu. I was hoping to get dual socket Interlagos mb with 16 core cpus but not after looking at this. Ill go broke just on the power bill for [email protected]


----------



## 996gt2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desert Rat;15277216*
> And thats the 8 core model I believe. *There no way to defend the suckiness of this cpu.* I was hoping to get dual socket Interlagos mb with 16 core cpus but not after looking at this. Ill go broke just on the power bill for [email protected]


Tell that to Jagged_Steel:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jagged_Steel;15276623*
> I see the 8150 outperforming the 2500, and dead even with a 2600.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nikkopo;15276735*
> This looks better than other reviews. But what are causing this?
> 
> I'm curious


Actually, that's very interesting. Hardware Heaven used an AsRock board and not the Crosshair V that everyone else used. Given the amount of negative reviews on Newegg for the Crosshair V, I wonder if that board has a problem. I don't expect changes to be huge, but might make a little difference.

Anybody else find a review that uses a motherboard other than the Crosshair V?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desert Rat;15277216*
> And thats the 8 core model I believe. There no way to defend the suckiness of this cpu. I was hoping to get dual socket Interlagos mb with 16 core cpus but not after looking at this. Ill go broke just on the power bill for [email protected]


LGA 2011 is the only way to go then

Sandy Bridge 8C/16T 128 Flops x 3.0GHz = 384 GFlops then add the 1/2 the performance average as if FADD is preferred or FMUL is preferred 192 GFlops

Interlagos 16C/16T 64 Flops x 2.3GHz = 147.2 GFlops then add the 1/4 the performance average 36.8 GFlops(Bad design is most likely the cause)

192/36.8

Sandy Bridge E Xeon 8 Cores are 5x more powerful than Interlagos Opteron 16 Cores


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15277063*
> well i would hope that some people on this site are educated enough to know that GHz doesn't mean much if the CPU is already slow.
> am i wrong to to assume that most of you were not blown away by the bulldozer record?
> cuz i hope i am right considering this is an OVERCLOCKING forum.


That is not the point. You are still excusing AMD. You didnt know if the CPU was already slow; that is a consideration you are making now, _a posteriori_. They did in fact create the hype. After all, when you consider it now, even overlocking it in a non industrial type of environment will not be for everybody, so why this kind of deception ?

You could be right to expect that an architecture that overclocks so well will have low IPC, long pipelines, etc, like the Pentium 4, but even the Pentium 4 example is not that great. Only the Pentium 4 Prescotts overclocked well.

On the other hand, when the Core architecture arrived to the desktop with the Core 2 line, you found out that architectures with excellent IPC were not necessarily synonym with little overclockability. The fact that you can easily overclock a 65nm Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 to 3.6 Ghz (the same speed as a 45nm stock Phenom II X4 975) is telling. Also the fact that people are now overclocking their Sandy Bridge CPUs all the way to 5 Ghz and are using them 24/7 above 4 Ghz with ease opened a window of possibilities and AMD wrongfully explored that good will.

Yes, it is true, many people here on OCN know better and, like me, were not excited by the world record (and a discussion ensued afterwards, as always), but you don't necessarily make Guiness World Records like that one to impress a minority, you make them to impress the general audience.

Oh, and how did I forget this: AMD named these CPUs "FX". Do you want more hype than that ? The FX series were the best CPUs AMD ever made, they were faster than the Pentium 4 of the time. What more hype to you want ? How in any case is this the consumer's fault ?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15271468*
> .../snip
> 
> I don't want to see AMD's stock tomorrow.
> http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:AMD


still climbing!










whoda thunk it?
EDIT: shoulda bought some stock yesterday







. But I is broke. Would need 1000's to make a buck.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2;15277042*
> JF-AMD said that. Not a reliable and relatively unbiased third party.
> 
> Your fault for assuming that everything JF-AMD said would be true.


correct,he even stated at another forum not to believe everything you read on the net,not even what he says,JF-AMD would never say anything to hurt the company he works for and jeopardize his positon in said company(plus he's a marketer,they spin),now on the other hand Benz is another story,what was his motivation?i saw his graphs and they dont warrant his statements about BD?

note to deniers:there is no excuse for this.AMD messed this launch up big time.
but AMD will be fine and things *might* get better with new steppings and tweaks on this new uarch.if not theres always the next new thing


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15277258*
> Actually, that's very interesting. Hardware Heaven used an AsRock board and not the Crosshair V that everyone else used. Given the amount of negative reviews on Newegg for the Crosshair V, I wonder if that board has a problem. I don't expect changes to be huge, but might make a little difference.
> 
> Anybody else find a review that uses a motherboard other than the Crosshair V?


Beginning to see a trend.

This review used a gigabyte board and appears to have better results than those that used the Crosshair

Translated: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com.sg&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.ozeros.com/2011/10/review-amd-bulldozer-fx-8150/7/&usg=ALkJrhgpGPRjvrHGJqL8qqqBRyUg6OUZ6A


----------



## Kauke

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/amd-posts-blatantly-deceptive-benchmarks-on-barcelona/567

De javu


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*
> *Q. I saw a benchmark on xyz website. Is that how bulldozer will perform?*A. No. Nothing posted before launch will be representative of actual performance. To get actual performance, you need:
> 
> Final production silicon
> Final processor microcode
> Final system BIOS
> Final OS optimizaitons
> Final drivers
> An app compiled with the latest flags
> A person who understands the app and configures the test properly
> 
> Without these things (and there are probably more), you cannot get an accurate benchmark. Any extrapolation of a crappy benchmark gives you a crappy estimate of actual performance. Period.
> 
> Oh, and many of the benchmarks that you see were probably not run, those are just charts made in excel. It's really easy to make a chart in excel - what do you want, bulldozer faster by 3716%? Intel faster by 293%? Sure, I can do either one in 10 seconds.


----------



## capitaltpt

It's that funny word, "representative". Doesn't say "better" or "worse", just "not representative". Technically, if it's not the final product it CAN'T be representative.


----------



## smoothjk

I can't believe I bought another AMD replacement mobo (AM3+) with the hopes of Bulldozer being OK. I should've just gone with Intel.

Seriously, AMD fanboys (and I am one), don't bother defending Bulldozer. It's an epic failure, pure and simple. It's just dumb to even make excuses for this launch.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smoothjk;15277543*
> I can't believe I bought another AMD replacement mobo (AM3+) with the hopes of Bulldozer being OK. I should've just gone with Intel.
> 
> *Seriously, AMD fanboys (and I am one), don't bother defending Bulldozer.* *It's an epic failure, pure and simple.* It's just dumb to even make excuses for this launch.


It's all about perspective







.

Will I buy one? Depends on new steppings by q2/q3 2012, MB form factors, and MB features, and MB price, the latter two AMD generally excels at.

Gotta look at the whole picture









Am I dissapointed?

Slightly, but I am an optimist with realist tendencies

Am I angry with AMD?

No, this a really tough market. Here's for Trinity! HURAH!


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smoothjk;15277543*
> I can't believe I bought another AMD replacement mobo (AM3+) with the hopes of Bulldozer being OK. I should've just gone with Intel.
> 
> Seriously, AMD fanboys (and I am one), don't bother defending Bulldozer. It's an epic failure, pure and simple. It's just dumb to even make excuses for this launch.


I was not a fanboy but I always liked AMD's price\performance in the lower segment (and currently own a 1090T), but once I saw that leaked Dutch Magazine article, and then once I got in contact with the Russian guys who were able to get their hands on one, and we ran those tests and I saw the test results streamed live...I realized this chip would not live up to the hype.

I'm just surprised that some (and they know who they are) just REFUSED to believe it. Granted some benches could be bogus, but, ALL of them showing poor performance? Come on, just use some common sense. Plus, I have no reason to lie? And why would a bunch of cool enthusiasts on an overclocking forum in Russia want to do that anyway? They're just like us...


----------



## smoothjk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15277576*
> It's all about perspective
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Will I buy one? Depends on new steppings by q2/q3 2012 for me.
> 
> Am I dissapointed?
> 
> Slightly, but I am an optimist with realist tendencies
> 
> Am I angry with AMD?
> 
> No, this a really tough market. Here's for Trinity! HURAH!


Haha you are really, really optimistic.







I can understand not overtaking Intel's previous generation, but actually getting WORSE per-core/per-clock performance than the years-old Phenom II is inexcusable to me.


----------



## AMD_Freak

WTB bnib 990fx motherboard 50.00 shipped


----------



## Optimus_Prime

I say buy bulldozer not for actual performance right now because you will not get it but for future proof and lets face it the drivers are rly not up to speed for the arhitecture.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smoothjk;15277590*
> Haha you are really, really optimistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand not overtaking Intel's previous generation, but actually getting *WORSE per-core/per-clock performance than the years-old Phenom II is inexcusable to me.*


-.- This was something that I am not happy with, either. -.-

If I was buying now, or waiting for BD to launch to make a decision to build a rig, I'd go with a 2500k and a the z68 gene-z, because it meets what I need, and BD didn't hit the sweet Price/Perf spot I want; But i haz no monies, so I'm just sitting and watching.

It's all terribly entertaining







.







.


----------



## Seronx

The cat is out of the bag Orochi CPUs have 50+ Stage Pipelines


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007;15277300*
> That is not the point. You *are still excusing AMD. You didnt know if the CPU was already slow*; that is a consideration you are making now, _a posteriori_. They did in fact create the hype. After all, when you consider it now, even overlocking it in a non industrial type of environment will not be for everybody, so why this kind of deception ?
> 
> You could be right to expect that an architecture that overclocks so well will have low IPC, long pipelines, etc, like the Pentium 4, but even the Pentium 4 example is not that great. Only the Pentium 4 Prescotts overclocked well.
> 
> On the other hand, when the Core architecture arrived to the desktop with the Core 2 line, you found out that architectures with excellent IPC were not necessarily synonym with little overclockability. The fact that you can easily overclock a 65nm Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 to 3.6 Ghz (the same speed as a 45nm stock Phenom II X4 975) is telling. Also the fact that people are now overclocking their Sandy Bridge CPUs all the way to 5 Ghz and are using them 24/7 above 4 Ghz with ease opened a window of possibilities and AMD wrongfully explored that good will.
> 
> Yes, it is true, many people here on OCN know better and, like me, were not excited by the world record (and a discussion ensued afterwards, as always), but you don't necessarily make Guiness World Records like that one to impress a minority, you make them to impress the general audience.
> 
> Oh, and how did I forget this: AMD named these CPUs "FX". Do you want more hype than that ? The FX series were the best CPUs AMD ever made, they were faster than the Pentium 4 of the time. What more hype to you want ? How in any case is this the consumer's fault ?


i didn't assume it was slow.
i am not by all means defending AMD.
I am pretty pissed about them calling them FX chips but still, it's all about advertisment, what would you expect?
they are losing buisness and it was a good hook, since it failed tho, it's a little insulting to us who remember the good ol' athlon days.

but i still stand by what i said about it being the consumers' faults.
Consumers believed everything they heard and started arguing that these were going to be the best chips on the market without actualy having anything to back it up.

And you can't tell me that this forum hasn't been flooded with idiots trying to tell other idiots that the bulldozer is going to be a "revolutionary god-like super processor" made from bio-metals stolen from the Transformers.That right there my friend...is the consumer hyping themselves up based upon un-sourced *"*facts*"*


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15277742*
> The cat is out of the bag Orochi CPUs have 50+ Stage Pipelines


[email protected]

where'd you find that little tid-bit of info?


----------



## nakano2k1

Wait wait.... Since when is it Microsoft's job to create code to cater to a hardware company's product?

Windows 7 has been out for how long now? And even if Bulldozer is really meant for Windows 8 and the performance really is THAT substantial, then it's just a bit FU to everyone right now.

Also, if the other motherboards are working so much better, why did AMD only include the Asus crosshair board in their press / early tester kits?

I'm sure that the numbers will rise in about a month, but by how much remains to be seen I guess. I don't think it'll be as much as people think.


----------



## Nikkopo

I'm really looking forward to hear what JF-AMD has to say about the FX-8150 Reviews.

I don't mean it in a bad way, I'm just very curious what he will say and how he will answer some questions.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15277767*
> [email protected]
> 
> where'd you find that little tid-bit of info?


It might as well have it


----------



## pcclock

The price is also a huge downer and power consumption. The first time you're gonna need to buy a better PSU because of a "cpu".


----------



## bern43

Well, I do feel a little deceived about this. I assumed based on posts here and just common sense that IPC and overall performance would at least increase from my phenom II 1090t. Based on that I bought a Crosshair V with the plan to use that chip until next year and then upgrade to the FX when prices come down or a new version is released. Given the numbers that plan is no longer a real option and I'm now looking into intel based systems. Shame on me for jumping the gun on the board, but I needed a new one and wanted to stick with AMD.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15277801*
> The price is also a huge downer and power consumption. The first time you're gonna need to buy a better PSU because of a "cpu".


that's why i always tell people to buy 1k watt....but noooooo
"The 650/850 is more than you'll ever need..."
"Hazzee just stop, he doesn't need that much..."

well good sirs, i kindly ask thou to suck ith


----------



## CerealKillah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1;15277774*
> Wait wait.... Since when is it Microsoft's job to create code to cater to a hardware company's product?
> 
> Windows 7 has been out for how long now? And even if Bulldozer is really meant for Windows 8 and the performance really is THAT substantial, then it's just a bit FU to everyone right now.
> 
> Also, if the other motherboards are working so much better, why did AMD only include the Asus crosshair board in their press / early tester kits?
> 
> I'm sure that the numbers will rise in about a month, but by how much remains to be seen I guess. I don't think it'll be as much as people think.


Woah Tiger. You do know that MS did roll some updates to their OS to take advantage of Hyper Threading, right? Sometimes, the technology is ahead of the OS optimization. It happens.

How much IPC loss there is from a lack of optimization (or more specifically lack of OS cooperation) is unknown...


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15277829*
> that's why i always tell people to buy 1k watt....but noooooo
> "The 650/850 is more than you'll ever need..."
> "Hazzee just stop, he doesn't need that much..."
> 
> well good sirs, i kindly ask thou to suck ith


Yes but that may only apply for "THIS cpu". And 1k? Lol that is a huge bit too much. Only if you have tripply SLI or Crossfire 2x HD6990 that would be a good idea. And some serious water cooling etc.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15277840*
> Woah Tiger. You do know that MS did roll some updates to their OS to take advantage of Hyper Threading, right? Sometimes, the technology is ahead of the OS optimization. It happens.
> 
> How much IPC loss there is from a lack of optimization (or more specifically lack of OS cooperation) is unknown...


hopefully


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr. Zoidberg;15273637*
> I find it funny that even though AMD has claimed that its module approach is more efficient than Intel's hyper-threading technology, in actuality it isn't. Here's what Xbitlabs had to say:
> 
> "As a result, Bulldozer cores do not just work at half the speed of Sandy Bridge cores. In addition to that the performance of the Bulldozer processor module with two cores is even lower than that of a single Sandy Bridge core with enabled Hyper-Threading technology. "
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fx-8150_8.html#sect1


I'm pretty sure it is more efficient than SB, but there's a problem with the architecture or execution of it. Possibly in the shared cache of CPU dispatcher.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR;15273650*
> it's getting bottle necked guys, the proof is on the reveiws..... when you have a core fully loaded and 6-7 other sitting at 50% thats a scheduling issue somewhere. and not no fault is the processor. its gotta be outside the cpu it self.
> most likely a software issue.
> windows 7 core scheduling?


It could be the CPUs dispatcher.

I personally think its the cache too, massive latency...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR;15273788*
> Sorry this is a monster waiting for an awaking, nobody is paying attention to the one reveiw where it is unequivocally being shown to be bottle necked.
> the processor isn't getting fully loaded correctly.
> the testers themselves are being blinded by results and not looking at whats going on.
> I'll be laughing when somebody actually gets this to load up and it smokes a i7 2600k and you all went flying to the store to get the i7 and me sitting here with a BD zambezi fx and rocking your INTEL RIG OFF A CLIFF.


There's hardware bottlenecks as well as software bottlenecks, it's more likely that Piledriver will fix those.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15273854*
> Nope.
> 
> AMD are on deaths door tbh.
> 
> I can try and find where I read that, I read so much though...


No, they're not...Llano and Bobcat are selling really well, even Deneb and Thuban are to a certain extent. (Seen quite a few machines for sale with 1035Ts)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar;15273879*
> So what would happen if Intel became a monopoly?


Either Intel would have to pay AMD a lot of money (Eg. MS to Apple) to revive them or Intel would be split into two companies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whemian;15273946*
> may i ask why did your engineers designed a chip that is for mostly servers not clients..


Their client chips are Llano and Bobcat, enthusiasts get what is essentially rebranded server hardware with OCing abilities.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku;15274179*
> Where is the increased IPC over Phenom II, AMD, is it hiding somewhere?


Only exists when you run stuff compiled with the new instruction sets they added. So yeah, this is exactly like Netburst was to begin with. (New architecture with some promise, which this does have assuming they get the power and IPC issues under control, that only destroys at a much higher clock speed and when you use its new instruction sets...)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav2000;15274399*
> So is this officially the "Fermi" of AMD, the same AMD that made immense fun of the hot and high TDP Fermi...well, well, well, this is called Karma guys...it will always come back to you
> 
> I dont think JF AMD will be around for a while after his statement on IPC......
> 
> Sad day for AMD guys like me...I hyped it so much in my own head that now I am sad that I will not be buying any new hardware to play with...


More like Netburst, Fermi actually has decent performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smoothjk;15277543*
> I can't believe I bought another AMD replacement mobo (AM3+) with the hopes of Bulldozer being OK. I should've just gone with Intel.
> 
> Seriously, AMD fanboys (and I am one), don't bother defending Bulldozer. It's an epic failure, pure and simple. It's just dumb to even make excuses for this launch.


As bad as Prescott was in the end, Willamette was a really bad launch but Northwood was good, I can see this happening, Zambezi is a big chunk of poo, but Piledriver still has the opportunity to be great.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15277865*
> Yes but that may only apply for "THIS cpu". And 1k? Lol that is a huge bit too much. Only if you have tripply SLI or Crossfire 2x HD6990 that would be a good idea. And some serious water cooling etc.


well the idea is to never have to upgrade your PSU....we all know that is the last thing you want to hear when you go and buy an upgrade is "you mite need more watts"

so....suck ith


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15277790*
> It might as well have it


/\ I c wha u did der


----------



## yukon

The 8150 is better in most areas, to say it's not is a lie. Yes it's definatly a far cry from consumer and ocdotnet's hype..

Also most people see a new chip and buy it since it is an upgrade, is it worth it to you ? well let the consumer be the judge.

There will be a little gain more than likely from this chip as it progresses and grows, but I wont try to justify all the waiting for minimal gain's and minimal losses.

Having said that I will buy My Bulldozer just like many of you will buy your 2600k's and 2500's and we will commence playing battlefield side by side with no notable difference at all since there both more than anything needs..

It's not the best news guy's but people are still buying these chips to "test", us "fanboys" and uneducated consumers that see a big motor that looks good on paper.. Any way you cut it the stock is on the up and if it stays there AMD might be able to revamp some shiz


----------



## AMD_Freak

One great thing about AMD ... the stock prices are up 3.09% today unlike the bulldozer improvements


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD_Freak;15278036*
> One great thing about AMD ... the stock prices are up 3.09% today unlike the bulldozer improvements


Wait till tomorrow.


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15278044*
> Wait till tomorrow.


what is tomorrow ? (besides Thursday)


----------



## vikingsteve

I find it funny how AMD delayed BD for so long, and now after release, it just falls flat on its face.

What a disappointment. Somebody is definitely getting fired at AMD.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15278015*
> The 8150 is better in most areas, to say it's not is a lie. Yes it's definatly a far cry from consumer and ocdotnet's hype..
> 
> Also most people see a new chip and buy it since it is an upgrade, is it worth it to you ? well let the consumer be the judge.
> 
> There will be a little gain more than likely from this chip as it progresses and grows, but I wont try to justify all the waiting for minimal gain's and minimal losses.
> 
> Having said that I will buy My Bulldozer just like many of you will buy your 2600k's and 2500's and we will commence playing battlefield side by side with no notable difference at all since there both more than anything needs..
> 
> It's not the best news guy's but people are still buying these chips to "test", us "fanboys" and uneducated consumers that see a big motor that looks good on paper.. Any way you cut it the stock is on the up and if it stays there AMD might be able to revamp some shiz


^very well said my friend


----------



## CerealKillah

This review paints BD in a different light:

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg16/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-conclusion.html

I can't help but notice using the ASRock board instead of the Asus board everyone else used. Gaming looked good on there. I see light.


----------



## SCollins

Oddly, Oak ridge Tennesse Jaguar super computer is getting upgraded to BD 16c. Maybe the software used in the desktop arena, just isn't working in a way thats compatible with the CPU design.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/99413-titan-supercomputer-38400-processor-20-petaflop-successor-to-jaguar?print

That should look very interesting.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD_Freak;15278036*
> One great thing about AMD ... the stock prices are up 3.09% today unlike the bulldozer improvements


/\ this. I'm still waiting on 2010's response







. Quoted him twice now

2010,

where art thou?


----------



## soth7676

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15278084*
> This review paints BD in a different light:
> 
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg16/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-conclusion.html
> 
> I can't help but notice using the ASRock board instead of the Asus board everyone else used. Gaming looked good on there. I see light.


Hmmmm I smell some fishy here.... or is it grease I am smelling instead???

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15278123*
> Oddly, Oak ridge Tennesse Jaguar super computer is getting upgraded to BD 16c. Maybe the software used in the desktop arena, just isn't working in a way thats compatible with the CPU design.
> 
> That should look very interesting.


Not really the Orochi design is a failure that upgrade is a downgrade


----------



## Da1Nonly

Has anyone seen if there are reviews with crossfire or sli with bulldozer?


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15277840*
> Woah Tiger. You do know that MS did roll some updates to their OS to take advantage of Hyper Threading, right? Sometimes, the technology is ahead of the OS optimization. It happens.
> 
> How much IPC loss there is from a lack of optimization (or more specifically lack of OS cooperation) is unknown...


The updates were for windows XP users. It was nice of microsoft to roll out some updates for people still using legacy software.

At the time of the release of intel hyperthreading the most recent software was Windows 7, and at that time Windows 7 was optimized for the hardware because Intel and Microsoft sat down and actually optimized it together.

It wasn't a case of "here's the hardware, now change the code to accommodate us. It also wasn't "ok, so here's the CPU which should run optimally with some software that will be out in a year or so."

AMD really have their heads up their rears when it comes to RnD


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15278084*
> This review paints BD in a different light:
> 
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg16/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-conclusion.html
> 
> I can't help but notice using the ASRock board instead of the Asus board everyone else used. Gaming looked good on there. I see light.


They only tested 3 games


----------



## obi.van.kenobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soth7676;15278146*
> Hmmmm I smell some fishy here.... or is it grease I am smelling instead???
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


this review is real, just as Pamela Anderson's boobs are real:kungfu:


----------



## MinitroN

Not sure if this one's been done already...

They should rename the thread to *The Bulldozer Blog is Dead*.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15278084*
> This review paints BD in a different light:
> 
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg16/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-conclusion.html
> 
> I can't help but notice using the ASRock board instead of the Asus board everyone else used. Gaming looked good on there. I see light.


You'll also notice the games they tested were all AMD Gaming Evolved titles. And they also used a Radeon while a lot of sites I've seen use a Geforce.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15278165*
> Not really the Orochi design is a failure that upgrade is a downgrade


A statement that only bear merit in the desktop benchmarking arena so far. Like I siad, I am curious to see how it stacks up.

I will not be upgrading any of my machine, I think that this platform is to immature right now.


----------



## NateN34

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vikingsteve;15278062*
> I find it funny how AMD delayed BD for so long, and now after release, it just falls flat on its face.
> 
> What a disappointment. Somebody is definitely getting fired at AMD.


Nah, doubtful.

AMD knew this chip would suck all along.


----------



## black96ws6

FINALLY! A review that compares the 6100 and 4100 chips!!

http://translate.google.com.sg/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.hardware.info%2Freviews%2F2382%2Famd-fx-8150--8120--6100--4100-bulldozer-review


----------



## SCollins

huh, thats strange.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15277749*
> i didn't assume it was slow.
> i am not by all means defending AMD.
> I am pretty pissed about them calling them FX chips but still, it's all about advertisment, what would you expect?
> they are losing buisness and it was a good hook, since it failed tho, it's a little insulting to us who remember the good ol' athlon days.
> 
> but i still stand by what i said about it being the consumers' faults.
> Consumers believed everything they heard and started arguing that these were going to be the best chips on the market without actualy having anything to back it up.
> 
> And you can't tell me that this forum hasn't been flooded with idiots trying to tell other idiots that the bulldozer is going to be a "revolutionary god-like super processor" made from bio-metals stolen from the Transformers.That right there my friend...is the consumer hyping themselves up based upon un-sourced *"*facts*"*


Well, sure, there are some people that bought the hype, but when you bring back the FX moniker from the 2003 - 2006 years, I wouldn't necessarily call them names.

In fact, you are doing the same thing JF-AMD did in a very unprofessional and derogatory manner:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;14755380*
> Based on the PMs and email messages that I get, I can see why nobody wants to stick their neck out. The enthusiast community has some nice people in it, but there is an overabundance of stupid 12-year-olds with lots of time on their hands.


This is how an AMD Rep treats potential customers. LOL Reminds me of that forum admin over at BF3 that started whining at potential customers - and then the thread was deleted shortly afterwards by someone with more common sense than him, and a few days later they opened up the map everybody thought was more representative of the BF franchise.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15277829*
> that's why i always tell people to buy 1k watt....but noooooo
> "The 650/850 is more than you'll ever need..."
> "Hazzee just stop, he doesn't need that much..."
> 
> well good sirs, i kindly ask thou to suck ith


You can't be serious, can you ?

Electricity may be cheap over where you live, but maybe that's not the case in other parts of the world. Besides, a powerful quality PSU costs more money. Where is AMD's price/performance ratio going to be after you buy such a PSU to support their system ?


----------



## soth7676

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MinitroN;15278271*
> Not sure if this one's been done already...
> 
> They should rename the thread to *The Bulldozer Blog is really a Tonka*.


Fixed!!... LOL

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## QuackPot

Has @JF-AMD deleted his twitter account? Can't seem to find it. I was on it earlier.

EDIT: Nevermind.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

@tpi2007
Quote:


> In fact, you are doing the same thing JF-AMD did in a very unprofessional and derogatory manner:


yea maybe i am being unproffesional but jesus, read through this thread.
some of them know what they are talking about, but then the other people....it's like WTH, were you dropped on your head...sorry just venting, but you are right and i appologize for being unproffesional and such
Quote:


> Electricity may be cheap over where you live, but maybe that's not the case in other parts of the world. Besides, powerful PSU costs more money. Where is AMD's price/performance ratio going to be after you buy such a PSU to support their system ?


if you can afford to buy stuff for your computer, then obviously you're well off enough to pay a bit extra for electricity.

if you're one of those people that don't know how to manage your money, then just don't get into building computers, it's as simple as that.

i grew up poor, so don't talk "electricity is expensive" to me.
can't afford it, you shouldn't be touching it.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15278343*
> A statement that only bear merit in the desktop benchmarking arena so far. Like I siad, I am curious to see how it stacks up.
> 
> I will not be upgrading any of my machine, I think that this platform is to immature right now.


Nope, it sucks in every field the only field it doesn't suck is at web and database and Ivy Bridge A0 Xeon chips already blow that out of the water

but is it worth the power bill?
(I would say No)


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15278611*
> Nope, it sucks in every field the only field it doesn't suck is at web and database and Ivy Bridge A0 Xeon chips already blow that out of the water
> 
> but is it worth the power bill?
> (I would say No)


Actually it seems to do better in integer workloads, you know what it was designed for. I am curious to see the results on the the jaguar. Its not the end of the world. A CPU fits your workload or it doesn't.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15278643*
> Actually it seems to do better in integer workloads, you know what it was designed for. I am curious to see the results on the the jaguar. Its not the end of the world. A CPU fits your workload or it doesn't.


Web and Database is mainly integer and we know how that went

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraSPARC_T1

It's not aimed at HPC, It's not aimed at Desktop

It's aimed where it is going to fail...miserably


----------



## Tweeky

I just could not help myself I had to order one
After all the promises and then the lies I just had too
I promised my CH5F I would get him a "Bully-Dozer"
But after the fact it is truly painful and cost $300 to boot
Even the people at n....g were making fun as they pack him up


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15278643*
> Actually it seems to do better in integer workloads, you know what it was designed for. I am curious to see the results on the the jaguar. Its not the end of the world. A CPU fits your workload or it doesn't.


HAHA this is so funny. Look at him come up with bogus stuff trying to defend the BD. Don't have anything to say now do ya..









He has nothing to say. All the stuff he "was" gonna say has been destroyed by the benchmarks.









This is good.


----------



## 2010rig

Guys, maybe WE all got it wrong, us being such a small piece of the pie has its benefits for AMD.

Their stock is actually UP, not that I want their stock to crumble or anything, but seriously, it's UP.
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:AMD

Perhaps they showed the investors their cherry picked false benchmarks, and this video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk[/ame]


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;15278792*
> I just could not help myself I had to order one
> After all the promises and then the lies I just had too
> I promised my CH5F I would get him a "Bully-Dozer"
> But after the fact it is truly painful and cost $300 to boot
> Even the people at n....g were making fun as they pack him up


Security footage from the Newegg shipping office:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXMcbhn6Np0[/ame]


----------



## bru_05

Will be interesting to see BF3 benchs. Not that I think it will beat Intel or anything (just curious), because they obviously messed something up with these chips. Dunno how they expect the 8150 compete at $279 when the 2600k is $279 and the 2500k is $220 or lower.

There's gotta be something slowing it down, maybe with OS optimizations or BIOS updates it will get better... I can't for the life of me grasp the fact the BD 6 core can't outperform the current 6 core procs. But, economically speaking they could just be releasing these to recover some of the costs of production and hopefully have something else cooking. Unfortunately, obligations to stockholders are far more important... Could be their best option at this point.

With that being said, I think I'll wait until the last AM3+ procs come out and grab one of those. (FedEx busted my computer when I shipped it and blamed it on me so I had to salvage what I could. Bought an AM3+ to use with my 955. Otherwise I'd have a 2500k)


----------



## noahhova

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15278816*
> HAHA this is so funny. Look at him come up with bogus stuff trying to defend the BD. Don't have anything to say now do ya..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has nothing to say. All the stuff he "was" gonna say has been destroyed by the benchmarks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is good.


And here's the premature "I told you so" guy......wait for real benchmarks from ppl here who buy them.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15277742*
> The cat is out of the bag Orochi CPUs have 50+ Stage Pipelines


where can i read about that??


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15278910*
> where can i read about that??


It was a joke

---
To AMD:










Even Darth Vader is Angry


----------



## black96ws6

The only reason AMD's stock is up is because the whole market is up, FYI...


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noahhova;15278855*
> And here's the premature "I told you so" guy......wait for real benchmarks from ppl here who buy them.


Sure, now only wait till its available in the stores instead of only US online stores.

Regardless, those benchmarks are valid! And you know that. Besides these people bought them too. Just for a lot more expensive.


----------



## Fr0sty

to be frank with everyone i didnt think this much fail was even possible at all ... worse single core performance then last gen stuff ... and barely beats current stuff in highly multi threaded stuff ...

all while we've been told ipc increase for a while ...

why y do this amd ???


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz;15278553*
> @tpi2007
> 
> yea maybe i am being unproffesional but jesus, read through this thread.
> some of them know what they are talking about, but then the other people....it's like WTH, were you dropped on your head...sorry just venting, but you are right and i appologize for being unproffesional and such
> 
> if you can afford to buy stuff for your computer, then obviously you're well off enough to pay a bit extra for electricity.
> 
> if you're one of those people that don't know how to manage your money, then just don't get into building computers, it's as simple as that.
> 
> i grew up poor, so don't talk "electricity is expensive" to me.
> can't afford it, you shouldn't be touching it.


Well, they _were_ lied to:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10528811*
> IPC will be higher
> Single threaded performance will be higher
> 
> That is all we can say at this point.


(click to read the previous post where it is asked what the performance will be relative to K10.5).

Ok, fair enough, but you didn't address the main point I made in the end: after you spend your money on such a PSU, where does that leave AMD's price to performance ratio ? You know, people usually buy AMD because they fare well in this regard.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15278958*
> The only reason AMD's stock is up is because the whole market is up, FYI...


I will take you word for it, I know nothing of stocks.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15278816*
> HAHA this is so funny. Look at him come up with bogus stuff trying to defend the BD. Don't have anything to say now do ya..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has nothing to say. All the stuff he "was" gonna say has been destroyed by the benchmarks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is good.


I actually expected these benchmark results.


----------



## ShiftedReality

Did anyone read all the reviews? There was a few i read that were different from the rest, esp heavenhardware. They used a ASrock board where the majority of others used ASUS board. Its interesting to see it does better with the ASrock board then the ASUS board.

Not sure how to take it honestly.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShiftedReality;15279146*
> Did anyone read all the reviews? There was a few i read that were different from the rest, esp heavenhardware. They used a ASrock board where the majority of others used ASUS board. Its interesting to see it does better with the ASrock board then the ASUS board.
> 
> Not sure how to take it honestly.


BIOS revisions and different board will probally offer a margin of error +5/-5 percent over the next few weeks.

As more programs begin to use the included FMA4 and XOP, performance will jump drastically, but that would take a paradigm shift in software production, which wont happen.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279181*
> BIOS revisions and different board will probally offer a margin of error +5/-5 percent over the next few weeks.
> 
> As more programs begin to use the included FMA4 and XOP, performance will jump drastically, but that would take a paradigm shift in software production, which wont happen.


It is really going to depend on who win this round in the ISA war. Which ever ISA in regard to fma/xop etc offers a better programming model and sooner, will likely win.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279181*
> BIOS revisions and different board will probally offer a margin of error +5/-5 percent over the next few weeks.
> 
> As more programs begin to use the included FMA4 and XOP, performance will jump drastically, but that would take a paradigm shift in software production, which wont happen.


Only FMA, XOP is the ******ed twin of AVX

FMA has the potential of increasing peak flops but overall you will see the same

AMD AVX = 1/4 of Intel AVX


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15279237*
> Only FMA, XOP is the ******ed twin of AVX
> 
> FMA has the potential of increasing peak flops but overall you will see the same
> 
> *AMD AVX = 1/4 of Intel AVX*


why, isn't avx still avx?

----
I remember reading something over @XS about XOP set , something like it took 93 cycles to perform something it would take 343 cycle in AVX..

I'm not going to pretend I know what that all means because it was related to x264 encoding, but it looked good


----------



## QuackPot

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVxo82_DR8Y[/ame]

LOL


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279129*
> I will take you word for it, I know nothing of stocks.


After closer examination, the charts look like it's up quite a bit, in reality, it's up 13 cents. Anyway, putting the stock aside.

I don't know what bothers me more, the fact that BD is as bad as it is, or that AMD tried to pass it off on us as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that they are BLATANTLY lying to people.

Or the fact that JF-AMD talked down at most of us ( you know, us Intel fanboys ), discredited leaks and passed them off as fakes, lied to us and said IPC will be higher, Single threaded performance will be higher.

Did he just not know what he was talking about?

When I asked him if BD more closely resembles a 4 core 8 thread part, all he gave was a snarky remark. Well...
Quote:


> To say we're disappointed is to understate things. It's not that the Bulldozer FX8150 is poor when compared to the LGA1155 processors, it's not good when compared to AMDs own Phenom II X6.
> 
> Much has been made of the Bulldozer modules that each contain two cores. Judging from the performance the reason they've called them modules isn't because each one is like a dual-core processor. It's because each one is about the equivalent to a single Intel core.
> 
> What on earth are they doing? The numbers imply something monumental. It marmalises the Intel on clock speed, cache and number of cores, yet the results show that even the i5-2500K beats it in nearly every test, and the i7-2600K annihilates it to such a degree it's embarrassing. How AMD have the cheek to compare it to an i7-980X in pricing terms is frankly beyond us. If a i5-2500K can make this look merely average, the i7-980X would make it look like something from the stone-age.


----------



## Nocturin

where's the mods?

this is funny


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279310*
> why, isn't avx still avx?


Sandy Bridge can do two 256bit AVX per cycle 1 FADD + 1 FMUL per core

Orochi can do one 128bit AVX 1 FADD or 1 FMUL per core
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279310*
> ----
> I remember reading something over @XS about XOP set , something like it took 93 cycles to perform something it would take 343 cycle in AVX..
> 
> I'm not going to pretend I know what that all means because it was related to x264 encoding, but it looked good


Ya, they then found out if they used it the same way with AVX it was faster than the XOP set AVX with the tweaks did it less than 93 cycles


----------



## Frosty88

Hardware Heaven's review actually showed that their chip benched better than a 2600k when it comes to games. They were also able to hit 5.2 GHz...

Makes me think the BIOS on the Asrock board used by HH is quite a bit better than the other 990FX boards used by most other review sites.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosty88;15279375*
> Hardware Heaven's review actually showed that their chip benched better than a 2600k when it comes to games. They were also able to hit 5.2 GHz...
> 
> Makes me think the BIOS on the Asrock board used by HH is quite a bit better than the other 990FX boards used by most other review sites.


Strange isn't it ? I think it might be a little bit before we find out if the design is bad, or its just the supporting systems that are problematic.

I can wait, I got nothing to worry about.


----------



## Imglidinhere

I don't think Bulldozer will fail now that I've had some time to calm down and think about it.

Because it's so incredibly overclockable, removing that constant 4.2GHz barrier that the Phenom II line is hindered by, they effectively made a chip that can easily stay managable under super high clock speeds and still scale very well. I personally think that the benchmarks of the overclocking were unstable to the point where they would run at the clock specified, but didn't gain in any showings.

This is standard knowledge for any overclocker. An unstable overclock generally tends to yield lower results than a stable lower clock.

Also, on that note, The FX-4100 line will be released to the public fairly soon, next week actually. So we'll see what those can do since the Quad Core seems to be the sweet spot as of today.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15279404*
> Strange isn't it ? I think it might be a little bit before we find out if the design is bad, or its just the supporting systems that are problematic.
> 
> I can wait, I got nothing to worry about.


You may want to reconsider your sig. Just sayin'
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14720567*
> Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden and works in AMD's factory) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


Care to show your "cousin's benchmarks" now?


----------



## Frosty88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15279404*
> Strange isn't it ? I think it might be a little bit before we find out if the design is bad, or its just the supporting systems that are problematic.
> 
> I can wait, I got nothing to worry about.


I'm hoping, for AMD's sake, that it's just a system issue. If I were to buy a new CPU and based my decision solely on Hardware Heaven's review, I'd actually go with a FX-8150 over a 2600K but that's one review out of a ton.

I'd really like to see their chips compete with Sandy Bridge. Not that I'll be making any changes to my rig in the coming months but I'd like AMD to be a real competitor again.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15279345*
> Sandy Bridge can do two 256bit AVX per cycle 1 FADD + 1 FMUL per core
> 
> Orochi can do one 128bit AVX 1 FADD or 1 FMUL per core
> 
> Ya, they then found out if they used it the same way with AVX it was faster than the XOP set AVX with the tweaks did it less than 93 cycles


AH!

Thank you.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15279310*
> why, isn't avx still avx?
> 
> ----
> I remember reading something over @XS about XOP set , something like it took 93 cycles to perform something it would take 343 cycle in AVX..
> 
> I'm not going to pretend I know what that all means because it was related to x264 encoding, but it looked good


One thing. from what I understand, is like this (i hope I got it right):

The AMD SSE5 is a superset of AVX adding the XOP, so SSE5 is AVX + XOP. The orignal AVX was changed from a four operand to a three operand in 2009 i think.

FMA can be describe as two numbers multiplied and then added to a third. Sort of like (A * B) + C. The difference between the FMA-3 and FMA-4 versions is how the result is handled. If you think of A, B and C as registers, FMA3 is (A * B) + C = C and (A * B) + C = D FMA-4. AMD's version does not overwrite the result, but put in a fourth register, Intel's overwrites register C.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15279439*
> You may want to reconsider your sig. Just sayin'
> 
> Care to show your "cousin's benchmarks" now?


Not really, because its not any less true.what cousin? I don't have any family who works for AMD or Intel.I think you have me mixed up with someone else.


----------



## Mr.Eiht

I feel so sad atm. My wish was that Bully is able to wipe I5/I7 out.
This was a wish.
Now it looks again like no competition for Intel. Sadly.
I feel so sorry for the AMD engineers - they did the best they could, I assume.

I still can`t believe this.
Quote:


> ...it's safe to call Bulldozer another solid offering from AMD.


http://www.overclockers.com/amd-fx-8150-bulldozer-processor-review


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15279529*
> Not really, because its not any less true.what cousin? I don't have any family who works for AMD or Intel.I think you have me mixed up with someone else.


Read the quote.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;14720567*
> Guys I wish I could tell you so much about Bulldozer right now but I can't. My cousin (who lives in dresden and works in AMD's factory) would be in a violation of non disclosure agreement if I tell you, but I can only tell you that the Bulldozer is well worth waiting for.


Care to show your "cousin's benchmarks" now?


----------



## 2010rig

oooops, double post. I guess I'll just leave this here instead.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SArxcnpXStE[/ame]


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosty88;15279465*
> I'm hoping, for AMD's sake, that it's just a system issue. If I were to buy a new CPU and based my decision solely on Hardware Heaven's review, I'd actually go with a FX-8150 over a 2600K but that's one review out of a ton.
> 
> I'd really like to see their chips compete with Sandy Bridge. Not that I'll be making any changes to my rig in the coming months but I'd like AMD to be a real competitor again.


You know why there are only 3 supercar manufacturers and a ton of everyday lurxury brands etc ? Becuase there is no money in competing in that space.

AMD is doing fine with llano,bobcat etc. those future plans look solid for mainstream.

AMD needs more server, which this chip may excel at. I haven't seen any benchmarks to indicate that reality either way.

As to issues like motherboard stability etc, it might take a few weeks to see if there is any truth to this at all. so lets all try to be patient, not flame each other, and try to reserve some judgment.

I can wait, I have no need to upgrade right now. I'd bet most of us can, anyways with 2700 looming 2500/2600 prices will drop anyways so it could be a good time to be a consumer.

this could seriously be a very botched laucnh. I think the massive disagreement in the benchmarks is indicative of potential platform and cpu sensitivity to things like ram speed, bios, power control etc.

Right now I can't recommend buying a 8150, there no point in it.


----------



## daman246

hardware heaven review is actualy pretty good The 8150 trades blows with 2600k in most scenerios but thats just one review out of 100s im starting to think this is a Bios/Compability Problem that AMd can hopefully fix in the next week before they start losing some serious money


----------



## Fabrix7777

Remember this?:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10528811*
> IPC will be higher
> Single threaded performance will be higher
> 
> That is all we can say at this point.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Eiht;15279533*
> I feel so sad atm. My wish was that Bully is able to wipe I5/I7 out.
> This was a wish.
> Now it looks again like no competition for Intel. Sadly.
> I feel so sorry for the AMD engineers - they did the best they could, I assume.
> 
> I still can`t believe this.
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/amd-fx-8150-bulldozer-processor-review


AMD has been dominated by intel so bad that it's a wonder they were able to get something that performed better than a phenom II out to us consumers.. If you put money in intel's hand for performance that 90% of us will never have any _"real"_ use for then you let AMD down.. Read AMD's mission not your personal agendas.. If a rep mislead you here that's your own damn fault, blame yourself for expecting more than what was infront of your face for the past 3 months.

Once again Once my money is up I'll help the cause.. AMD at this point is a mom and pop store and intel is effing walmart and I hate walmart. Help them help you. I need two companies to compete before intel makes off with all our money and starts offering us crap because they can..


----------



## el gappo

Bring on enhanced bulldozer. Till then imma zip up some files really fast.


----------



## Da1Nonly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15279748*
> Bring on enhanced bulldozer. Till then imma zip up some files really fast.


You really have an 8150?? Whats your experience on it like? Do your personal results match what we are currently seeing out there?

Thanks, all mighty one for your reply.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15279748*
> Bring on enhanced bulldozer. Till then imma zip up some files really fast.












Unless you are talking about a different type of zip


----------



## ikem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15279722*
> Once again Once my money is up I'll help the cause.. AMD at this point is a mom and pop store and intel is effing walmart and I hate walmart. Help them help you. I need two companies to compete before intel makes off with all our money and starts offering us crap because they can..


i agree with this. i am buying a 8150 just because i want to test it myself. if it fails compared to my 1090t, then so be it. They will just inprove on this architecture down the road.


----------



## Vesku

Taking the 8150 reviews and factoring in the ~10% IPC improvement set for Piledriver it hit me. Phenom II x8 with an OC ceiling near 5GHz instead 4GHz arrives next year.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daman246;15279667*
> hardware heaven review is actualy pretty good The 8150 trades blows with 2600k in most scenerios but thats just one review out of 100s im starting to think this is a Bios/Compability Problem that AMd can hopefully fix in the next week before they start losing some serious money


The question is, do you believe the one good review, or the majority?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15279748*
> Bring on enhanced bulldozer. Till then imma zip up some files really fast.


What has been your experience so far? You doing a review?


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Da1Nonly;15279780*
> You really have an 8150?? Whats your experience on it like? Do your personal results match what we are currently seeing out there?
> 
> Thanks, all mighty one for your reply.


Pretty much expect it's capable of much higher cpu and memory clocks that these reviews are saying.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15279782*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about a different type of zip


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15279823*
> The question is, do you believe the one good review, or the majority?
> 
> What has been your experience so far? You doing a review?


maybe as the dust settle's and people stop trying to be the first person on the moon we will get some better results.. Things get overlooked as did with the 2600k.. Am i right or am I right?

I don't mean it will do anything other than beat it's current benches.. I think that is very likely and very possible..


----------



## Da1Nonly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15279853*
> Pretty much expect it's capable of much higher cpu and memory clocks that these reviews are saying.


Well I trust the good folks around overclock.net more then anyone else. Will you be posting your OC results and a personal review? Would be nice to see it with crossfire or sli.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15279606*
> Care to show your "cousin's benchmarks" now?


he already did,here you have a look



i dont think they paint a very good picture to be honestly, a octo on par with a quad


----------



## Mr.Eiht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15279722*
> If a rep mislead you here that's your own damn fault, blame yourself for expecting more than what was infront of your face for the past 3 months.


I am not sure what you read there.








I wrote that I *wish* it would be like that. Not that I knew it will be like that.
And from the rest of your post I assume that you want that AMD make good processors, too.
And for mankind's sake: I can wish what I want - all day and night long.


----------



## Buckaroo

I see a lot of potential for this chip, few tweaks here and there down the road. Can't wait till i get to play with my 8120 tomorrow.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Da1Nonly;15279914*
> Well I trust the good folks around overclock.net more then anyone else. Will you be posting your OC results and a personal review? Would be nice to see it with crossfire or sli.


Nah but I posted a guide. Working on some real word results atm i.e video conversion, winrar, [email protected], boinc etc etc.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/1139737-crosshair-v-bulldozer-overclocking-guide.html
http://www.overclock.net/benchmarking-software-discussion/1137376-what-benchmarks-do-you-want-see-4.html#post15278486


----------



## kahboom

Product Details:
Product Description Quantity Price Ext. Price
AMD FD8150FRGUBOX FX-8150 Processor - Eight Core, 8MB L3 Cache, 8MB L2 Cache, 3.60GHz (4.20GHz Max Turbo), Socket AM3+, 125W, Fan, Unlocked, Retail 1 $ 259.99 $ 259.99
Subtotal: $ 259.99

Order Details:
Product Total $259.99
Shipping & Handling $0.00
Sales Tax TX, SD, NC, IL, ID, GA, FL $0.00
Order Total $259.99

yeah buddy got it off tigerdirect.com its coming sat. or mon. can't wait

on overclock3d.net he had the 8150 running at 76C on prime 4.7-4.8ghz is that normal?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15279941*
> he already did,here you have a look
> 
> i dont think they paint a very good picture to be honestly, a octo on par with a quad


Thanks, this thread and the reviews thread are HUGE, so I missed them. I'm no where near caught up yet.

I saw his replies in that other thread, and how disappointed he was, so I thought the whole cousin thing was made up. My bad.

Anyway, has anyone compared these results to other reviews? How accurate were they?

I agree, barely beating the 2500K with 8 cores does not paint a good picture, and it also shows it faster than 1100T, which isn't consistent with most reviews.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;15279980*
> Nah but I posted a guide. Working on some real word results atm i.e video conversion, winrar, [email protected], boinc etc etc.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/1139737-crosshair-v-bulldozer-overclocking-guide.html
> http://www.overclock.net/benchmarking-software-discussion/1137376-what-benchmarks-do-you-want-see-4.html#post15278486


Can you please post a link to your review when done.

I want to see real world performance numbers from our members.

Damn it, I keep double posting.


----------



## aweir

Don't you guyz see. BD was engineered to be on par with the i5, not miles ahead like they wanted you to think. We were made fools of from the very start with this over hyped chip.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Can you please post a link to your review when done.

I want to see real world performance numbers from our members.

Damn it, I keep double posting.


Not doing a review, just going to run benches. You're all capable of making your own minds up.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Not doing a review, just going to run benches. You're all capable of making your own minds up.


I don't care for a review, only care about benches.

Something interesting was just posted on the reviews thread.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HMBR*


something to keep in mind, BD have 4 "full cores", 4 modules, each module have 2 "cores", 2 thread with some shared resources,
so a 2 module, 4 cores BD will suffer against a PII X4 which have twice some of the stuff, so the ideal scenario for the BD in this case would be to disable 1 thread per module and keep 4 modules, but that is simply not viable, and even so, the IPC is still very low for each module compared to Intel and PII, so............ 








2 threads on one module vs 2 threads on one core with HT looks bad, 
1 thread on one module vs 1 thread on a sb core without HT would look A LOT worse.

anyway, always keep in mind that we can cause a very different impression with basically the same thing,

xbitlabs tested this game with the physx option enabled









they didn't


















GPU bound









CPU bound








http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...mance_review/4


Going to look into that Hardware Heaven review, and what settings they used.


----------



## Da1Nonly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Nah but I posted a guide. Working on some real word results atm i.e video conversion, winrar, [email protected], boinc etc etc.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-general...ing-guide.html
http://www.overclock.net/benchmarkin...l#post15278486


Thanks, something good to read and look at.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15280010*
> Thanks, this thread and the reviews thread are HUGE, so I missed them. I'm no where near caught up yet.
> 
> I saw his replies in that other thread, and how disappointed he was, so I thought the whole cousin thing was made up. My bad.
> 
> Anyway, has anyone compared these results to other reviews? How accurate were they?
> 
> I agree, barely beating the 2500K with 8 cores does not paint a good picture, and it also shows it faster than 1100T, which isn't consistent with most reviews.


yep,i mean i could understand him saying BD is worth waiting for it the results in the graph showed a i7-2600K,but since it was AMD's own numbers and a 2500K,i dont see how the statement makes sense?
and no i haven't compared them with the reviews yet and i dont think i have the energy,too much info for me the last 14 hours


----------



## KobaltRock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fabrix7777;15279714*
> Remember this?:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;10528811*
> IPC will be higher
> Single threaded performance will be higher
> 
> That is all we can say at this point.
Click to expand...

As you can see, he never mentioned which chip he was comparing it to, now, we know he meant higher than a Athlon XP.


----------



## Panickypress

hello, i would fall in the category of the idiot consumer!. point is that comming from a no computer wizard consumer who likes a bit of tech, i will buy the 8150 if it's just a slight upgrade from my 1100t and i do not think i am the only one... so i do not think it will fail (just like phenoms)


----------



## GTR Mclaren

maybe with some revisions and new drivers and Bios the Bulldozer CPU improve their performance

but I don't thing they will improve power consumption...and that is completely unacceptable


----------



## Mr.Eiht

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Panickypress*


i will buy the 8150 if it's just a slight upgrade from my 1100t and i do not think i am the only one...


Hi my friend. No you are not the only one. If you read el gappos o.c. guid this chip looks like fun

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


... a monkey could OC sandy bridge.


Edit: Forgot the link:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-general...ing-guide.html

// You RAM is still running nice and smooth - again thanks!


----------



## Fr0sty

a 8 husky core 32nm cpu would have been better then that ...


----------



## Am*

LOL just saw JF-AMD go online/offline. Not much even for him to comment on/hype up now that we've got these benchmarks/results everyone's waited for. I guess this is his reaction to all the people on AM3+ that waited for Bulldozer.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panickypress;15280231*
> hello, i would fall in the category of the idiot consumer!. point is that comming from a no computer wizard consumer who likes a bit of tech, i will buy the 8150 if it's just a slight upgrade from my 1100t and i do not think i am the only one... so i do not think it will fail (just like phenoms)


No such thing as an "idiot consumer". I can't believe why some people on OCN say that. Makes me wonder what our visitors think when they come by seeking for advice here. I will get an 8150 too. And you can be dang sure that I will have fun with it.


----------



## thenerdal

Is AMD false advertising with this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8rDwXuAINJk


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;15280561*
> Is AMD false advertising with this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rDwXuAINJk


It's completely false advertising!


----------



## Mr.Eiht

Yeah it is on their site as well. It has a reason that they disabled comments.

BTW:

Quote:



We also achieved clock frequencies well above 5GHz using only air and sub-$100 water cooling solutions.


http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/11...st-processors/


----------



## Am*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kzone75*


No such thing as an "idiot consumer". I can't believe why some people on OCN say that. Makes me wonder what our visitors think when they come by seeking for advice here. I will get an 8150 too. And you can be dang sure that I will have fun with it.










You've got your Phenom 965 to 4.1GHz, mine could never get past 3.9GHz on the same cooler (though I was too chicken to lap mine







). I don't mean any disrespect but I don't see why you'd want to change from your current one, even just for overclocking; it's not like this is going to be your first unlocked CPU to play with (first time overclockers are the only ones I can see possibly considering this CPU).


----------



## Obakemono

Still getting my 8120P and I don't give a damn what anyone thinks.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Is AMD false advertising with this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8rDwXuAINJk


Yes, why do you think the comments are disabled?

The cinebench run says it's a 980X, but the credits at the very end say it's a 2500K.

Only the uninformed will buy that a 980X scores 5.41 in Cinebench. So, who knows how skewed their other results are.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Yes, why do you think the comments are disabled?

The cinebench run says it's a 980X, but the credits at the very end say it's a 2500K.

Only the uninformed will buy that a 980X scores 5.41 in Cinebench. So, who knows how skewed their other results are.


You still getting BD?


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Am*;15280638*
> You've got your Phenom 965 to 4.1GHz, mine could never get past 3.9GHz on the same cooler (though I was too chicken to lap mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I don't mean any disrespect but I don't see why you'd want to change from your current one, even just for overclocking; it's not like this is going to be your first unlocked CPU to play with (first time overclockers are the only ones I can see possibly considering this CPU).


One reason only. Something new to play with.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


You still getting BD?



lol? Only the die hards are going get Bulldozer right now.


----------



## qwertyegg

sounds like another epic fail lol


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


lol? Only the die hards are going get Bulldozer right now.


Ordering mine today.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15280683*
> You still getting BD?


since i dont game or do any type work on my computers,just surf the web and OC CPU's and Ram,i will still be giving BD a try,should be good for OCing fun,afterwards i will sell it and grab a SB-E to play with and then sell it and maybe try SB since i still havent gotten a chance to play with it yet due to money issues over the past 10 months.but i might not try SB due to what seems to boring OCing?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Yes, why do you think the comments are disabled?

The cinebench run says it's a 980X, but the credits at the very end say it's a 2500K.

Only the uninformed will buy that a 980X scores 5.41 in Cinebench. So, who knows how skewed their other results are.


If Intel were in the same situation,they'd do the same thing,with P4 they did much more to force their product onto the consumers. I'm not saying it's okay for AMD to do this,it is disgusting for either side to pull such crap.

@ Balla,not only the diehards are buying FX,even some of the reviews say BD is still fun to mess around around with because there's so many setting that can be played with.


----------



## thenerdal

Is BD good for gaming?







(Not saying I'm going to buy one, just asking.)


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radaja;15280849*
> since i dont game or do any type work on my computers,just surf the web and OC CPU's and Ram,i will still be giving BD a try,should be good for OCing fun,afterwards i will sell it and grab a SB-E to play with and then sell it and maybe try SB since i still havent gotten a chance to play with it yet due to money issues over the past 10 months.but i might not try SB due to what seems to boring OCing?


Btw, it will be interesting to see if different Systemboard producers give different quality of clocking (eg. due to firmware), being a new CPU can make some advance over the others.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;15280881*
> Is BD good for gaming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Not saying I'm going to buy one, just asking.)


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15280916*
> Btw, it will be interesting to see if different Systemboard producers give different quality of clocking (eg. due to firmware), being a new CPU can make some advance over the others.


yep,i most likely will go with gigabyte because they are my favorite.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


@ Balla,not only the diehards are buying FX,even some of the reviews say BD is still fun to mess around around with because there's so many setting that can be played with.


I stop caring about tinkering with a chip when I realized you can't tinker a turd into a champ.


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I stop caring about tinkering with a chip when I realized you can't tinker a turd into a champ.


Yeah if IPC is worse than Thuban, how is BD going to drive higher-end SLI\\Crossfire setups without bottlenecking them?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I stop caring about tinkering with a chip when I realized you can't tinker a turd into a champ.


In other words,You can't polish a turd.
The way BD looks now,I see no reason to upgrade.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Frosty88*


Hardware Heaven's review actually showed that their chip benched better than a 2600k when it comes to games. They were also able to hit 5.2 GHz...

Makes me think the BIOS on the Asrock board used by HH is quite a bit better than the other 990FX boards used by most other review sites.



That is interesting, but in a way it only adds to AMD's own incompetence. It was AMD that sent reviewers the Asus board in the Press Kit. Mind you, it even came with the CPU installed in the socket! AMD must have been pretty confident that was the right motherboard to get the best results from.

From overclockers.com:

Quote:



AMD sent a nice, large press kit containing the board on which to bench their new CPU, the CPU in the socket, a box for photos and (for some reason or another) a belt buckle.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I stop caring about tinkering with a chip when I realized you can't tinker a turd into a champ.


Hell i am even tinkering with an E350 the last few days







just love to get the extra Hz out of anything (even my mobile phone).

That does not make me recommend bulldozer - it's just a toy


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15280922*


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15280971*
> In other words,You can't polish a turd.
> The way BD looks now,I see no reason to upgrade.


LOL. Actually you can. Mythbusters has an epic video about that. The thing is, a turd is still a turd, no matter how good it looks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Hell i am even tinkering with an E350 the last few days







just love to get the extra Hz out of anything (even my mobile phone).

That does not make me recommend bulldozer - it's just a toy










I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.


----------



## djriful

This thread is going too fast for me to catch up. I should be working haha

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.


Link? This also proves my 300Mhz theory correct. It takes 8 core BD about 300 more Mhz to equal a 6 core Thuban chip...

Edit: Actually yours is 500 less so that's even worse, but I think the average is 300 based off our tests with the Russian 8120's...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black96ws6;15280963*
> Yeah if IPC is worse than Thuban, how is BD going to drive higher-end SLI\Crossfire setups without bottlenecking them?


You mean IPS right ? or Instructions per second

In whole numbers cuase the math gets silly and this is the dumbed down version for conversations sake

IPC x Clock = IPS

Now IPc is what could be called a very high factor in IPS.

what unknown at the moment is why is IPS so low at higher clock speed, why isn't IPC scalling, for the most part it should.

So something is wrong with the chip, microcode,bios,design etc.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


You mean IPS right ? or Instructions per second

In whole numbers cuase the math gets silly and this is the dumbed down version for conversations sake

IPC x Clock = IPS

Now IPc is what could be called a very high factor in IPS.

what unknown at the moment is why is IPS so low at higher clock speed, why isn't IPC scalling, for the most part it should.

So something is wrong with the chip, microcode,bios,design etc.


As clocks increase the branch predictor does more miss hits

Which in turn stalls the CPU for like 20 cycles and if it happens again and again performance is lost infinitely


----------



## el gappo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.


Hell no. The 8150 was faster, also the thuban requires sub zero for those clocks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Willhemmens*


So I have a 1090T that does this in Cinebench:








I could quite easily get higher too.
What would be the point upgrading to Bulldozer? Apart from the simple fun of testing a new product.

For reference a 4.818GHz BD scores just 7.95.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Is that my old chip?







Dat voltage!










Bulldozer on air and yes there's headroom









So air BD > phased thuban?










Lets not get things skewed here.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.



Balla, where is your epic Jack Nicholson's avatar ?


----------



## thenerdal

Please don't tell me a cheaper cpu on Intel is better than BD too. Is it that bad?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


As clocks increase the branch predictor does more miss hits

Which in turn stalls the CPU for like 20 cycles and if it happens again and again performance is lost infinitely


There are 2 predictors though, a slow and a fast. Unless one is not performing correctly this shouldn't be occuring ?


----------



## black96ws6

el gappo proves my theory! His 5Ghz screenshot is about on par with a 4.7Ghz Thuban! That's 300 Mhz! =o)

(8.34 vs 8.28)


----------



## Chewy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tpi2007*


Balla, where is your epic Jack Nicholson's avatar ?










+1

thought i saw a puddy tat!!!


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.


Reselling it to someone later - won't be hard to find an AMD-fanboy as they will now go all out on "8Cores are better" campaign.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15281165*
> There are 2 predictors though, a slow and a fast. Unless one is not performing correctly this shouldn't be occuring ?


To many problems for Orochi B2, maybe it will be fixed by B3 and we can say....OH!

So, that is Bulldozer okay (Hides the 2600K and Motherboard under the carpet) you saw nothing!


----------



## Cyclonic

Guess why JF-AMD hasnt posted in the last 2 days







:jerry:

What a fail cpu, and he knew it all the time that i would fail for desktops, last time i bought AMD.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15281203*
> To many problems for Orochi B2, maybe it will be fixed by B3 and we can say....OH!
> 
> So, that is Bulldozer okay (Hides the 2600K and Motherboard under the carpet) you saw nothing!


Maybe the bios and microcode are having timing issues ? Theres many unknowns but the HH review looks so different, I have to ask myself, WTH is going on here ?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I like to tinker things too, I just don't have the money to have any desire to pick up an under performing chip just to tinker it so my results are slightly better than what other people get with the same under performing chip.

Btw in my bench offs against 1090T's, the Phenom II x6 is .50 faster at 4.7GHz than the 8150 is at 5GHz in Cinebench... That was el gappo's run, which was slower than my 5.2GHz i5-2500k.


Does the 1090T at 4.7 consume less power than the 8150 at 5Ghz?


----------



## kzone75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Hell no. The 8150 was faster, also the thuban requires sub zero for those clocks.

Lets not get things skewed here.


What temps are you getting at 5GHz, if I may ask?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


el gappo proves my theory! His 5Ghz screenshot is about on par with a 4.7Ghz Thuban! That's 300 Mhz! =o)

(8.34 vs 8.28)


4.7 thuban ? on consumer level cooling ? I have a hard time seeing thuban over 3.5ghz on normal cooling. BD handily outclocks thuban by 300mhz easily.

IPS

IPC x Clocksped = ips


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Does the 1090T at 4.7 consume less power than the 8150 at 5Ghz?


God no, my thuban 1090t pulls over 200w at 3.5 ghz.


----------



## black96ws6

8 Core BD is equal to a 6 Core Thuban running at 300Mhz less clock.

Therefore, we can extrapolate:

4.8Ghz 8150 = 4.5Ghz Thuban
4.5Ghz 8150 = 4.2Ghz Thuban
3.1Ghz 8120 = 2.8Ghz Thuban


----------



## alick

Waking up to this is depressing. Well now I guess maybe and will come out with a quick fix or rev2 of the CPU before we will see any major improvment I hope

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk


----------



## black96ws6

However the difference between 8 core BD and 6 core Thuban from a performance perspective is, BD can clock about 500-600Mhz higher:

4.2Ghz max for most people for Thuban
4.8Ghz max for most people for BD

So that's say 600Mhz, but then, you have to subtract the 300Mhz performance hit compared to Thuban...

So in reality, buying an 8150 and OC'ing it to 4.8Ghz stable is like finding a golden chip Thuban that instead of clocking to 4.2Ghz with a decent cooler, can clock to 4.5Ghz...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


God no, my thuban 1090t pulls over 200w at 3.5 ghz.


At the wall or on the socket?
Btw,my 1090T does 4Ghz on normal cooling on ,a cheap CM Hyper 212 plus.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Maybe the bios and microcode are having timing issues ? Theres many unknowns but the HH review looks so different, I have to ask myself, WTH is going on here ?


BIOS and microcode can only make so many improvements,it would only lessen the huge margin it loses by to the SB 2500K.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


To many problems for Orochi B2, maybe it will be fixed by B3 and we can say....OH!


But mow much can be fixed with a new stepping?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


But mow much can be fixed with a new stepping?


If they knew about the problem in one go

It would seem they are aiming for an one go fix


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


8 Core BD is equal to a 6 Core Thuban running at 300Mhz less clock.

Therefore, we can extrapolate:

4.8Ghz 8150 = 4.5Ghz Thuban
4.5Ghz 8150 = 4.2Ghz Thuban
3.1Ghz 8120 = 2.8Ghz Thuban


A 2.8Ghz 1055T X6 can be had for less than $150,a $169 1090T BE hits its limit around 4.2Ghz,and cannot do 4.5Ghz without extreme cooling. 
A FX 8150 exceeds its thermal limit of 61C at 4.8Ghz,even on a Noctua NH-D14.


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*


Guess why JF-AMD hasnt posted in the last 2 days
















What a fail cpu, and he knew it all the time that i would fail for desktops, last time i bought AMD.


Because he has 777 posts and doesnt wanna screw with that lucky number ?


----------



## black96ws6

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


A 2.8Ghz 1055T X6 can be had for less than $150,a $169 1090T BE hits its limit around 4.2Ghz,and cannot do 4.5Ghz without extreme cooling. 
A FX 8150 exceeds its thermal limit of 61C at 4.8Ghz,even on a Noctua NH-D14.


Exactly! AMD's current pricing makes zero sense!

Why would you pay $260 for an 8150 when you can get a 1090T for $160?

Bulldozers wouldn't actually be so bad if they weren't so overpriced! They need to drop the prices by $100 or so per chip (at least for the top of the line models).


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Hell no. The 8150 was faster, also the thuban requires sub zero for those clocks.

Lets not get things skewed here.


He had a better run, around 8.5 I believe.

And yeah, he required phase change to get there... The point was more *EIGHT CORES WITH A HIGHER OVERCLOCK IS SLOWER THAN SIX FROM THE LAST GENERATION CLOCKED LOWER*.

Your 8150 at 5.1GHz is still slower than an i5-2500k at 5.2GHz, even with that ram.

We could go into power draw differences, but at this point I think FX is dead and beating a dead horse is wrong.

Ahh here it is...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


If they knew about the problem in one go

It would seem they are aiming for an one go fix


If everything can be fixed in one go,then all kinds of stuff is wrong with the FX.
Hopefully fixing everything in one go would fix it's excessive power consumption? Or maybe that could be GloFo's fault?
Even if AMD can fix it and rush out a B3 stepping before too much damage is done,it possibly still wouldn't quite beat a SB 2600K.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


If everything can be fixed in one go,then all kinds of stuff is wrong with the FX.
Hopefully fixing everything in one go would fix it's excessive power consumption? Or maybe that could be GloFo's fault?
Even if AMD can fix it and rush out a B3 stepping before too much damage is done,it possibly still wouldn't quite beat a SB 2600K.


There won't be any magical stepping fixing any significant performance. Wait for Piledriver.

Also, the CH5 that every big name reviewer used(AT, [H]), were CH5's directly from AMD via the press deck kit. Latest BIOS/Agesa, so if you see what you think may be better or differing performance numbers from someone way less reputable like hardware heaven, maybe consider some out of the box variables here. And i'm not talking about a different motherboard.


----------



## Sainesk

are the quad (will there be triple/dual too?) fx getting released later?

wonder if those will or if the hex ones have a chance to unlock to octo...


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Is AMD false advertising with this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8rDwXuAINJk


at the end..YES!..it's unbelievable!


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Why is it that Hardware Heavens review done on an Asrock 990fx Extreme 4, BD doesn't look that bad compared against the 2600k. Versus the other reviews with it running on the Asus CHV?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...onclusion.html


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


You still getting BD?


No, when Bulldozer is not consistently faster than the PhenomII it's replacing, I can't possibly go AMD this round. 
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=434

My upgrade path seems to be...

3930K for me, current rig for the wife.

OR

Upgrade my current rig to a 990X if I can find one for $500 - $600

And Build a 2500K system for the wife, I just helped a buddy build one for under $800.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


If Intel were in the same situation,they'd do the same thing,with P4 they did much more to force their product onto the consumers. I'm not saying it's okay for AMD to do this,it is disgusting for either side to pull such crap.

@ Balla,not only the diehards are buying FX,even some of the reviews say BD is still fun to mess around around with because there's so many setting that can be played with.


The Intel of 10 years ago, is not the same Intel of today.

Either way, what AMD is doing is very shady right now, they are blatantly misleading their customers.

Why hasn't JF-AMD posted? He too blatantly lied to us, and discredited all those leaked benchmarks as fake, when they were in fact indicative of final performance.









Besides, there are many benchmarks that showed a 4.6 Bulldozer not keeping up with a STOCK 3.4 2600K, so what's the point of "tinkering" with it? I'm not into LN2, Liquid Helium, let alone water cooling ( yet ).

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ssor-review/12
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ssor-review/18
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ssor-review/19

And AMD has the nerve to compare Bulldozer to a 980X.









For those still buying Bulldozer, wish you all the best of luck, maybe there really is a magical BIOS that will unleash this beast, but there isn't much they can do about Power Consumption.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Why is it that Hardware Heavens review done on an Asrock 990fx Extreme 4, BD doesn't look that bad compared against the 2600k. Versus the other reviews with it running on the Asus CHV?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...onclusion.html


Check my previous post. In summary, probably AMD Fanboy reviewer or paid off. I haven't even looked at the results, but if they are better, i wouldn't acknowledge them. HH has never been on my trusted side, just go look at Anandtech for a brutally honest, proper review, with proper motherboard straight from AMD themselves.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Why hasn't JF-AMD posted? He too blatantly lied to us, and discredited all those leaked benchmarks as fake, when they were in fact indicative of final performance.










He is drinking beer for a couple weeks


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


He is drinking beer for a couple weeks


Was this indicative of his priorities during AMD's most important CPU launch in the last 6 years?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JF-AMD*


Hmmm, let me see, what have I been doing today?

Cleaned the house for my wife's birthday party
Sold my bike frame and made $750 (thank YOU ebay)
*Swept all the leaves up and bagged them before the rain*
Shopped at costco on a saturday morning
*Filled the trunk with beer*
Changed the kitchen lights to LED lights (yeah, way cooler)
Transferred my domain to 1&1.com (they run on Opteron!)

Sorry, been a bit busy today.


----------



## Seronx

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *2010rig*   Was this indicative of his priorities during AMD's most important CPU launch in the last 6 years?  
yep

  
 You Tube  



 
5.53 ROFL OMEGA @ 4.8GHZ


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Why is it that Hardware Heavens review done on an Asrock 990fx Extreme 4, BD doesn't look that bad compared against the 2600k. Versus the other reviews with it running on the Asus CHV?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...onclusion.html


dun dun dun.

everyone's too busy beating up BD to notice there is an inconsistency within the whole of the data set.








.

Let the intel boys enjoy their day. One day.... One day...


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


He is drinking beer for a couple weeks


Lolwut. I never said that.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Lolwut. I never said that.


I didn't say you did

But....5.53 pts in Cinebench R11.5 @ 4.8GHz that is just UUUGGGGLLIIIEEHHHHH


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Why is it that Hardware Heavens review done on an Asrock 990fx Extreme 4, BD doesn't look that bad compared against the 2600k. Versus the other reviews with it running on the Asus CHV?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...onclusion.html


Could it be the mobo?
Most if not all other reviews were done with a Asus CHV.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


Why is it that Hardware Heavens review done on an Asrock 990fx Extreme 4, BD doesn't look that bad compared against the 2600k. Versus the other reviews with it running on the Asus CHV?

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...onclusion.html


Could it be a biased review?

The press kit included a CHV Formula board, why are they the only ones with a different board?

His results are not indicative of the other reviews, but if people choose to go by that review alone, that's their prerogative.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


dun dun dun.

everyone's too busy beating up BD to notice there is an inconsistency within the whole of the data set.








.

Let the intel boys enjoy their day. One day.... One day...










I am sorry, did you post the wrong link, as here i see only synthetic marks in witch the Bulldozer fails and 3 AMD sponsored games benched at GPU limited resolutions.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Was this indicative of his priorities during AMD's most important CPU launch in the last 6 years?


Is a man not able to have a real life because he works for a giant corporation?

Server launch party was a month or so ago..... -----> that way.

And from experience, I can tell you that when my company launches a product, which are almost always well received by millions of folks, I'd much rather be on vacation than in the midst of it. Everyone acts like the house is on fire, fire here, fire there, EVERYONE MUST BE ON FIRE!

Ya, can't really blame him.

I don't visit or participate in AVSforums for that reason /\\.

"enthusiasts" are normally "elitists"

not fun.

you remind me of that sometimes.

.-.- 2010rig -.-.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I am sorry, did you post the wrong link, as here i see only *synthetic marks* in witch the Bulldozer fails and 3 AMD sponsored games benched at GPU limited resolutions.


I'm sorry, but did you see me post a link?

hmmmm?

troll someone else before you get trolled.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


Could it be the mobo?
Most if not all other reviews were done with a Asus CHV.


Could very easily be the motherboard if you ask me. Perhaps the Asus board doesn't have a fully matured "Bulldozer Ready" BIOS on it yet, but the ASRock does.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


yep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IR1l9nGe4o

5.53 ROFL OMEGA @ 4.8GHZ


lol JJ is a Balla


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Could very easily be the motherboard if you ask me. Perhaps the Asus board doesn't have a fully matured "Bulldozer Ready" BIOS on it yet, but the ASRock does.


Or it could be because their test suite was very limited, to the tune of about 12 tests, and all their gaming tests were gpu bottlenecked.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Or it could be because their test suite was very limited, to the tune of about 12 tests, and all their gaming tests were gpu bottlenecked.


This is a very probable possibility.

I'm waiting for all of the tech sites to re-review all their 990x boards with BD now that they have it.

Error rate of 5-10% +/- i guesstimate, which make much a difference though,new bios revisions and micro code may be another 3-5%. maybe.

here's hope for another 10% stepping.









come on Balla, get a 4170!

it's cheap and indicative of performance







.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Out of all this disappointed this is the biggest glimmer of hope I've found...


























Looks like in the *lighter* threaded games (L4D2 and WoW) there's a *10%* performance boost with Windows 8.


----------



## djriful

This thread will soon break BF3 thread 20k posts. It is half way at the moment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Could very easily be the motherboard if you ask me. Perhaps the Asus board doesn't have a fully matured "Bulldozer Ready" BIOS on it yet, but the ASRock does.


The CH5 were sent directly from AMD in the presskit. I think AMD would send the most proper Mobo with proper BIOS and AGESA.

I'd go with biased, uncredible website instead.


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


dun dun dun.

everyone's too busy beating up BD to notice there is an inconsistency within the whole of the data set.








.

Let the intel boys enjoy their day. One day.... One day...










elaborate please


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cusideabelincoln*


Out of all this disappointed this is the biggest glimmer of hope I've found...


























Looks like in the *lighter* threaded games (L4D2 and WoW) there's a *10%* performance boost with Windows 8.


If you average those out, it's more like 5% or less. Nothing significant.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


At the wall or on the socket?
Btw,my 1090T does 4Ghz on normal cooling on ,a cheap CM Hyper 212 plus.


 socket, and thats running a VERY heavy non synthetic workload.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


BIOS and microcode can only make so many improvements,it would only lessen the huge margin it loses by to the SB 2500K.


 It can only make incremental gians if it is optimization, the case with my thuban was that I put it in a MB, booted it up and it was very cranky, very hot and performed horrifically. About a month later when they added a bios revision, it got to be a very solid performer, temperature and power consumption went down and performance nearly doubled.

Its only going to help if the bios doe not work properly in the first place. I am not saying that this is the current situation for BD, but its a possibility.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*


But mow much can be fixed with a new stepping?


 Depends on what or if anything is broken ?? alot if some components in the chip are broke !


----------



## Seronx

Intel isn't going to like that FPS drop this patch is stalled out man STALLED OUT

Quote:



Robert Palmer, current member of AMD's Board of Directors and former Digital CEO purportedly remarked that

"Designing microprocessors is like playing Russian roulette. You put a gun to your head, pull the trigger, and find out four years later if you blew your brains out."


AMD Board of Directors is hating Bulldozer, good thing to...


----------



## coupe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


To each his own. All I know is he blatantly lied to us, if you're ok with that, well, what can I say?

I don't care what he does in his personal life, I care about the misleading info he gave us. Such as:

Was this a true statement?

If you want more examples, I can give you PLENTY.

I waited ALL year for Bulldozer, and have taken a LOT of heat from people like yourself, who blindly defended the lies that were told to us. I wanted Bulldozer to succeed as much as the next guy, but sometimes "I Told You So" just doesn't cut it.


Lol he lied to you?


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Or it could be because their test suite was very limited, to the tune of about 12 tests, and all their gaming tests were gpu bottlenecked.


A gpu bottleneck on an HD6950 toxic?


----------



## flashtest

btw, did anyone test 2600K on Win7 vs Win8 ?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coupe*


Lol he lied to you?


He spankledwarfed us all


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


btw, did anyone test 2600K on Win7 vs Win8 ?


I don't think it matters because overall Windows 8 improve on every system. The ratio remain the same. That doesn't mean bulldozer is getting more beneficial performance in Windows 8 than any other CPUs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ninjagordy

the whole fx benchmark thing is nuts.... i got about 6 out of 7 flaming the cpu and one guy has it listed as beating an i7 2600k in 3 out of 4 games he tested....im confused ....lol

need to wait before i buy...... hoping that the 6 core is an unlocker!! or even the 4 core ;-)


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


I don't think it matters because overall Windows 8 improve on every system. The ratio remain the same. That doesn't mean bulldozer is getting more beneficial performance in Windows 8 than any other CPUs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually the new win8 scheduler may not benefit intel cpu's at all.


----------



## Buckaroo

Has JF-AMD been around since release or is he laying low till the smoke clears?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


Has JF-AMD been around since release or is he laying low till the smoke clears?


Staying low till the the AMD Enthusiasts with C4 straps on to their torsos leave

Instant he types a post EVERYONE is going to rush him


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


Has JF-AMD been around since release or is he laying low till the smoke clears?


People saw him a couple of times online here today, including me <.<
But i guess hes up to the later ...


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ninjagordy*


the whole fx benchmark thing is nuts.... i got about 6 out of 7 flaming the cpu and one guy has it listed as beating an i7 2600k in 3 out of 4 games he tested....im confused ....lol

need to wait before i buy...... hoping that the 6 core is an unlocker!! or even the 4 core ;-)


Too many reputable sources discrediting it. Unless there really is some bizarres unknown problem with the CHV boards. But then you still have to question why AMD is putting out fake benchmarks


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


If you average those out, it's more like 5% or less. Nothing significant.


Did you not read what I wrote? I said 10% in the *lightly* threaded games. BF3, Dues Ex, and Black Ops are all more heavily threaded than WoW and L4D.


----------



## Koniakki

I have been telling all(friends, clients, atleast interested ones) since the leaked benches on SB, that Cpu wasn't made to even compete with the 980x. It just happened that the architecture was so good so it competed with the 980x and even outperformed it mostly. But that wasn't Intel's plan on the first place afaik.

So here we have the SB released and gave performance that NONE(well most) did not expect. A cpu beating the cpu? That looked like some kind of "suicide" move by Intel for the 980x, but I'm sure we all agree that the 980x is stil a superior cpu imo.

So we can safely say Intel release a golden CPU, and that for BD to even come close to the SB(2500K/2600K) is NOT bad at all. I considered it acceptable and ok. Remember that Cpu beats the 980x. Not bad in my book.

Heck even those benches floating around with the 3960x shows it getting beaten(very small margin) in games by the 2600k and its just a 10-20% faster in a few Synthetic Benches and in some difference are NIL and that's while been a 6C/12T.

But what's NOT acceptable and very disappointing to an extent, is the performance difference from Thubans. That's bad. I have been postponing my build for so long like many of you, to see what will offer and I can say, 2600k/Genie-z GEN3 here I come.

P.S: Also I agree with many on the something's wrong with the performance. Like it has much more to offer but it's performance is hindered. Been reading about bios fault, Win7 faullts etc. Well, only time will tell. 
Cmon AMD, you can and deserve better than this.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


Too many reputable sources discrediting it. Unless there really is some bizarres unknown problem with the CHV boards. But then you still have to question why AMD is putting out fake benchmarks


Why would they be fake benchmarks ? Maybe the BOD, decided they must launch regardless of the situation and directed the acting and new CEO to do so. What I find interesting is the lack of public statements about these benchmarks.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


Too many reputable sources discrediting it. Unless there really is some bizarres unknown problem with the CHV boards. But then you still have to question why AMD is putting out fake benchmarks


Well that's the thing, no one can know if there is a problem with that board/BIOS because THEY'RE ALL USING IT!

I see no Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI or otherwise in any other reviews. It's all Asus Crosshair V.

Not even a single Fatal1ty 990FX board to use?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Well that's the thing, no one can know if there is a problem with that board/BIOS because THEY'RE ALL USING IT!

I see no Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI or otherwise in any other reviews. It's all Asus Crosshair V.

Not even a single Fatal1ty 990FX board to use?










HardwareHeavan used a Asrock board IIRC. and BD scored much better in benchmarks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


A gpu bottleneck on an HD6950 toxic?


Yes, a gpu bottleneck in a test that should have tested the cpus.


----------



## Buckaroo

I have no animosity towards JF. He is just a PR guy and his job is to paint a good picture.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


HardwareHeavan used a Asrock board IIRC. and BD scored much better in benchmarks.


Found it. Let's see...

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

Notice how these guys use an ASRock 990FX board, with the right BIOS for BD support, using 1866Mhz RAM instead of 1333MHz (and CAS9 1333MHz at that! sloooow), that it seems to do better in benchmarks? Notice how it's also not an ES CPU like in the HardwareCanucks review and actually lists a stepping/revision?

A little variety in reviews can make all the difference...


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

I had to go to work this morning...been out of the loop for over 8 hours, Has AMD done any kind of damage control on this yet?? clickie's would be nice if they have...I have not found anything







Thanks.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Yes, a gpu bottleneck in a test that should have tested the cpus.


But if you get a new cpu with a decent GPU are you going to play with your resolution at 1280 x 800 or are you going to crank it up to 1920 x 1080?

Don't get me wrong I was expecting BD perform much better, but at the same time I am not playing my games today at 1280 x 800 resolutions









Edit: Currently I am playing them at 1680 x 1050


----------



## pioneerisloud

*Guys, STOP with the personal attacks on JF-AMD.* It is NOT his fault that initial Bulldozer reviews sucked. Give it time, and see what real people with real systems, and updated BIOS's can achieve with it. If you're done waiting...fine, move onto something else.


----------



## Seronx

1134 wow

Hardware Heaven
Week 34August 22, 2011-August 28, 2011

Guru3d, HotHardware
Week 37 September 12, 2011-September 18, 2011

so much diversity


----------



## Obakemono

Until we see more reviews with different mobos then the whole deal is skewed at best. Anyone know if Microsoft fixed the kernel math scheduler yet?


----------



## SCollins

What memory was used in the Anandtech review ? I just looked through the whole article and I did not see the ram used ???


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Well that's the thing, no one can know if there is a problem with that board/BIOS because THEY'RE ALL USING IT!

I see no Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI or otherwise in any other reviews. It's all Asus Crosshair V.

Not even a single Fatal1ty 990FX board to use?










Yea, AMD themselves sent out faulty CH5's in their presskits to every big name review site so they could write a terrible, unrepresentative review of their brand new product.

/sarcasm


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee*


But if you get a new cpu with a decent GPU are you going to play with your resolution at 1280 x 800 or are you going to crank it up to 1920 x 1080?

Don't get me wrong I was expecting BD perform much better, but at the same time I am not playing my games today at 1280 x 800 resolutions









Edit: Currently I am playing them at 1680 x 1050










Low res shows the potential of the cpu without using dual cards.

Phenom II is a better buy than Bulldozer if you're gaming at 1050/1080p on a single card. It's going to perform about the same when gpu limited anyways, the problem is you aren't getting around AMD's terrible performance in cpu limited games like SC2.

Probably talking to the wrong person though, I was slightly upset with min's in the low 50's with my setup in BF3. I bought a 2x4gb kit because my system memory was maxed out and I felt some of the lows may be directly related to pulling cached data off the page file.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Yea, AMD themselves sent out faulty CH5's in their presskits to every big name review site so they could write a terrible, unrepresentative review of their brand new product.

/sarcasm











That was a mistake IMO using only one mobo vendor to send out to reviewers prior to release.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


*Guys, STOP with the personal attacks on JF-AMD.* It is NOT his fault that initial Bulldozer reviews sucked. Give it time, and see what real people with real systems, and updated BIOS's can achieve with it. If you're done waiting...fine, move onto something else.


That isn't fair though. People may want to express their thoughts/concerns/opinions about this person or about what has been going on.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Why would they be fake benchmarks ? Maybe the BOD, decided they must launch regardless of the situation and directed the acting and new CEO to do so. What I find interesting is the lack of public statements about these benchmarks.


The AMD video? Of the 980x only scoring 5.41 in cinebench? I would call that incredibly fake.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

http://kotaku.com/5849059/here-come-...red-gaming-pcs
Haaaaa


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


That was a mistake IMO using only one mobo vendor to send out to reviewers prior to release.


The CH5 is the 990fx flagship. AMD sent it out completely optimized, latest BIOS and Agesa. Did you ever stop to think HardwareHeaven is purposely writing a biased review or skewed the results? HardwareHeaven has never impressed me. Anandtech and [H] wrote brutally honest reviews. Go with them. There's no AMD hate, just proper evaluation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fanboy.

No mistake dude, why would AMD sent out multiple mobos to test their CPU, no.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*


The AMD video? Of the 980x only scoring 5.41 in cinebench? I would call that incredibly fake.


Why is it fake ? I don't doubt that it could be, but what data supports your assertion. Also what was the test criteria ?


----------



## djriful

*he is active.... he is not laying low...

He is just ignore everything of what is going on...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/jf_amd*


----------



## supersaiyenx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


That isn't fair though. People may want to express their thoughts/concerns/feelings about this person or about what has been going on.


I'm pretty sure attacking the "SERVER" side guy will help get answers. Your taking the hate out on the wrong person, if it means so much try contacting someone thats on the consumer side and ask what went horribly wrong.

Would be nice to see some more tests within the upcoming weeks with different boards, bioses and ram used. I wonder what the results on a Gigabyte board would be? (Noticed 2 F9 revisions since monday and last night.)


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


The CH5 is the 990fx flagship. AMD sent it out completely optimized, latest BIOS and Agesa. Did you ever stop to think HardwareHeaven is purposely writing a biased review or skewed the results? HardwareHeaven has never impressed me. Anandtech and [H] wrote brutally honest reviews. Go with them. There's no AMD hate, just proper evaluation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fanboy.

No mistake dude, why would AMD sent out multiple mobos to test their CPU, no.


AMD sent it out completely optimized ? Well obviously looking at the variances in benchmarks just between the websites using the same Mobo and cpu, it obviously is inconsistent.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Why is it fake ? I don't doubt that it could be, but what data supports your assertion. Also what was the test criteria ?


http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/142

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/142?vs=434


----------



## djriful

Based on the information out so far, it seems like Bulldozer is tailored for HPC and data center environments. Is this your target customer?

A: Threaded environments are the target. This includes HPC, but also includes, cloud, virtualization and database. *Single-threaded applications are less important as every day goes by.* For HPC we have plenty of new capabilities, including plenty of new SSE instructions, support for 256-bit AVX, and even some instructions that are available only on AMD-based systems (XOP and FMA4). The new Flex FP floating point complex is specifically tuned for those technical workloads. But the modularity of the Bulldozer architecture allows it to match a variety of applications. On the client side, the AMD FX processor will have configurations that are perfect for different client workloads as well.

http://www.admin-magazine.com/Articles/Power-Talk

Not sure... sounds like AMD is throwing us some Server CPU into your desktop or cramping them in... and it sucks.


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


That isn't fair though. People may want to express their thoughts/concerns/opinions about this person or about what has been going on.


I believe the "personal attack" is what breaks forum rules.

I wouldn't take it out on JF, as he's only a messenger (a slow one at that







).

I am, however, disppointed at AMD. They tried their best to hide everything, telling us those leaks were "none representative" of actual performance. When in actual fact, those leaks were very real. That's where I think AMD lied.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


AMD sent it out completely optimized ? Well obviously looking at the variances in benchmarks just between the websites using the same Mobo and cpu, it obviously is inconsistent.



That's just desperate. But really, instead of telling you that minor inconsistencies will happen with different systems, i'll actually agree with you for the simple fact that that is even MORE fail on AMD and Bulldozer. Lol!


----------



## black96ws6

Seriously? How can anyone think a 980x, which is a 6 core\\12 thread chip, scores less than a SIX in CB? Same as a Thuban? WOW. Take off the AMD glasses!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Why is it fake ? I don't doubt that it could be, but what data supports your assertion. Also what was the test criteria ?












http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...ench-r115.html


----------



## flashtest

http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...dozer-fx-cpus/
Bulldozer - Asrock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional (AMD 990FX)

We won't deny it, we really were hoping for a lot more from Bulldozer and AMD's eight-core processors. It's disappointing to find these newly launched processors do little to improve AMDâ€™s situation. The FX processors come short of competing hand to hand with the now 9-months old Sandy Bridge processors, and in certain instances surpass their own Phenom II range.


----------



## black96ws6

YES! Ninja'd Seronx!!


----------



## pursuinginsanity

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


*Guys, STOP with the personal attacks on JF-AMD.* It is NOT his fault that initial Bulldozer reviews sucked. Give it time, and see what real people with real systems, and updated BIOS's can achieve with it. If you're done waiting...fine, move onto something else.


Come on, while I agree with you outright personal attacks are *against the rules* I don't even think they're uncalled for. When he started all this forum surfing, the blog, spreading the hype, crying about people (during the leaks, which weren't pretty) trying to "sabotage AMD" and then topping it with even more hype.. the backlash was coming.

When you promise ice cream and deliver spoiled milk this is what you get.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


That's just desperate. But really, instead of telling you that minor inconsistencies will happen with different systems, i'll actually agree with you for the simple fact that that is even MORE fail on AMD and Bulldozer. Lol!










Desperate ? You guys imagine so much crap around here it's amazing. Its a cpu, its not Mother Theresa !!!,

I am making observations based on what I see, I am at the point right now of, the performance doesn't give me a compelling reason to upgrade, but that it could be due to many many factors that I cannot see right now.

So you take your imaginary argument and specious postulating somewhere else. I ain't bothered by the results one way or the other outside of curiosity.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


That isn't fair though. People may want to express their thoughts/concerns/opinions about this person or about what has been going on.


It isn't JF-AMD's fault that Bulldozer flopped with these initial benchmarks. It's not fair to him to be personally attacking him over something that he had no control over.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *supersaiyenx*


I'm pretty sure attacking the "SERVER" side guy will help get answers. Your taking the hate out on the wrong person, if it means so much try contacting someone thats on the consumer side and ask what went horribly wrong.


Thats not true. I wasn't attacking the person. The point is that he was in here making all those statements about the BD cpu. Which in large part wasn't true.

I just don't like the way this has been handled. Or what the person did. I just don't like the information that is now confirmed to be untrue. But what, should we not be able to talk about the person now? Thats just not fair.

It has nothing to do with a "SERVER" side. There aren't any "consumer" side here are there.

But not able to all of a sudden talk about it is unfair.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


It isn't JF-AMD's fault that Bulldozer flopped with these initial benchmarks. It's not fair to him to be personally attacking him over something that he had no control over.


It isn't fair the way you put it. And first of all, I'm not making a fight out of this or whatever. Just talking about it.

No its not his fault BD flopped. But the information that he brought out and talked about is. You can't say "its not his fault due to the information presented to him". You know that. Legally that is highly circumstancial and won't hold up. To say it in another way.









But anyway, I'm just talking about it. You have to use some words and say something. Without being rude or disrespectful.

Can't just "not talk about it". You know. However you put it.


----------



## MadGoat

8150 with a Giga UD7 - http://www.kitguru.net/components/cp...te-990fxa-ud7/

Another interesting review, look at the legs FX gets after a healthy tweak to the memory and NB clocks - http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/cpu/am.../index.php?p=7


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Yea, AMD themselves sent out faulty CH5's in their presskits to every big name review site so they could write a terrible, unrepresentative review of their brand new product.

/sarcasm











Did I say faulty? I did not. Don't put words in people's mouths.

Asus writes the BIOS, not AMD. However AMD would have sourced the boards from Asus and presumably told them "put the best BIOS on here" - do we know that for certain? No, but it's likely. The variable is the quality of Asus' BIOS on this particular board. Performance can vary between BIOSes and between board manufacturers.

What's your problem here? The CHV might be the flagship board but for all we know it could have a poorly written BIOS compared to others. However we don't actually know because we have a grand total of 1 or 2 reviews that _aren't_ using this board.

Besides I like the ASRock 990FX Fatal1ty better. More power phases, better slot layout, and it's cheaper


----------



## black96ws6

Yeah plus the Russian 8120s we reviewed weren't Crosshair's either, and they had similar (unimpressive) results...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pursuinginsanity*


Come on, while I agree with you outright personal attacks are *against the rules* I don't even think they're uncalled for. When he started all this forum surfing, the blog, spreading the hype, crying about people (during the leaks, which weren't pretty) trying to "sabotage AMD" and then topping it with even more hype.. the backlash was coming.

When you promise ice cream and deliver spoiled milk this is what you get.


Newsflash: He is on the sever side. If you or anyone is that pissed off about these results, then email AMD and complain.


----------



## black96ws6

So now the current thinking by some is a BIOS change is going to magically bring a Bulldozer up to 2600k levels?

WOW.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Besides I like the ASRock 990FX Fatal1ty better. More power phases, better slot layout, and it's cheaper










Same ÃŸ Still,showing the same results as the Asus.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Thats not true. I wasn't attacking the person. The point is that he was in here making all those statements about the BD cpu. Which in large part wasn't true.

I just don't like the way this has been handled. Or what the person did. I just don't like the information that is now confirmed to be untrue. But what, should we not be able to talk about the person now? Thats just not fair.

It has nothing to do with a "SERVER" side. There aren't any "consumer" side here are there.

*But not able to all of a sudden talk about it is unfair.*


You're putting words in my mouth......

You are MORE than welcome to discuss your feelings about the depressing initial benchmarks. Just keep it within the ToS of OCN, otherwise go elsewhere.

I said that *PERSONAL ATTACKS on JF-AMD* cannot happen, and they WILL be dealt with. Again, its not his fault that the client side, initial Bulldozer reviews sucked.

You wouldn't blame your general mechanic because your car has a problem with the sound system would you? Same situation here. Yes, he still works for AMD, just like the mechanic does stuff on your car. However they're completely different aspects.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


So now the current thinking by some is a BIOS change is going to magically bring a Bulldozer up to 2600k levels?

WOW.


Did I say that? No I did not.

I said that the BIOS can have an affect on performance, not that it will bring performance up to a 2600K level.

Have you guys seen the windows 8 results? 5-10% better than current BD results, just from a new OS. That's software. A BIOS is also software.

Why do you doubt the plausibility of a BIOS update bringing a minor performance increase?

There's still the issue of the match scheduler issue which can be fixed by *gasp* an updated CPU driver for windows/whatever OS you use.


----------



## Seronx

Seems FX-8150 needs 5GHz/2133+MHz/3.2GHz NB/2.6GHz HT/ and more to even compete in many workloads with the i7 2600K @ 3.4GHz/1333MHz/DNK/DNK










HAHAHAHA xD


----------



## swindle

Yeah.

I don't think slamming JF-AMD helps the situation.

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here, buuuuut... I don't think designed the FX architecture? Did he? No. Pretty sure he's just been doing his job...


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Newsflash: He is on the sever side. If you or anyone is that pissed off about these results, then email AMD and complain.


Pff dude, imagine the size of their spam box.









Do they actually have an email for this though?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...ench-r115.html











Fair enough.


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MadGoat*


8150 with a Giga UD7 - http://www.kitguru.net/components/cp...te-990fxa-ud7/

Another interesting review, look at the legs FX gets after a healthy tweak to the memory and NB clocks - http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/cpu/am.../index.php?p=7



Nice increase with a little tweaking. Can't wait till mine gets here. Going to be a fun chip to play with.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


The CH5 is the 990fx flagship. AMD sent it out completely optimized, latest BIOS and Agesa. Did you ever stop to think HardwareHeaven is purposely writing a biased review or skewed the results? HardwareHeaven has never impressed me. Anandtech and [H] wrote brutally honest reviews. Go with them. There's no AMD hate, just proper evaluation. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fanboy.

No mistake dude, why would AMD sent out multiple mobos to test their CPU, no.


Different mobo vendors are need to get a better sampling of BD. Limiting tests to 1 vendor is not a good move, and even within the testers the configurations were all over the place.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Different mobo vendors are need to get a better sampling of BD. Limiting tests to 1 vendor is not a good move, and even within the testers the configurations were all over the place.


Uhm, that kind of stuff ALWAYS happens FAR before launch...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Pff dude, imagine the size of their spam box.









Do they actually have an email for this though?










Why not look it up? I mean we all are consumers and we have the right to ask these questions.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...dozer-fx-cpus/
Bulldozer - Asrock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional (AMD 990FX)

We won't deny it, we really were hoping for a lot more from Bulldozer and AMD's eight-core processors. It's disappointing to find these newly launched processors do little to improve AMD's situation. The FX processors come short of competing hand to hand with the now 9-months old Sandy Bridge processors, and in certain instances surpass their own Phenom II range.


It's so lame... like we need some monster CPU to run Excel, Word... Winrar... seriously.

We need CPU that runs intensive softwares like Maya, Adobe, Premier Pro, other professional softwares and including gaming system obviously...


----------



## Usario

You know, I wouldn't regard Bulldozer as such a failure if it weren't for the price (yeah, I know, IPC is terrible, core scaling sucks, power consumption is insane... but at the right price, it'd be better than this).

In Cinebench R11.5, the FX-8150 is one tenth of a point ahead of the 1100T and is clocked 300MHz higher (6.0 vs 5.9). Its overclocking potential is maybe 600MHz higher than that of the X6. The 1100T costs $190. The FX-8150 is going for $260 right now.

The FX-6100 scores 4.82. The X6 1055T scores 5.1. The 6100 is at 3.3GHz; the 1055T is at 2.8GHz. The 1055T costs $150. The 6100 is going for $190 right now.

The FX-4100 scores 3.07. The X4 955 scores 3.8. The 4100 is at 3.6GHz. The 955 is at 3.2GHz. According to Anandtech, once the 4100 is actually available it will cost the same as the 955. BUT. The performance of the 4100 is actually closer to that of the Phenom II X3, which scores around 2.9 and can be found for $75.

tl;dr Bulldozer ruins the reason why we buy AMD: value.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


You're putting words in my mouth......

You are MORE than welcome to discuss your feelings about the depressing initial benchmarks. Just keep it within the ToS of OCN, otherwise go elsewhere.

I said that *PERSONAL ATTACKS on JF-AMD* cannot happen, and they WILL be dealt with. Again, its not his fault that the client side, initial Bulldozer reviews sucked.

You wouldn't blame your general mechanic because your car has a problem with the sound system would you? Same situation here. Yes, he still works for AMD, just like the mechanic does stuff on your car. However they're completely different aspects.


I didn't attack JF, but still my post got deleted.







I have nothing against him at all.

oh well.. Carry on..


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *black96ws6*


So now the current thinking by some is a BIOS change is going to magically bring a Bulldozer up to 2600k levels?

WOW.


I don't think that, unless we are talking heavy integer work loads. I think it may help with performance scaling vrs clock speed and power usage and maybe fpu performance. Lots of if ands or butts there as well btw. That is assuming there is a problem to begin with, and that is unknown at this time.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


elaborate please


I'm attempting looking at it from a scientific point of view (and failing) . Take a set of data(bios revision, agesa code, MB used, stepping, ect) and put it through review, if during the review period the data set comes into question, it is then invalidated and new data must be created for the original hypothesis (faildozer as their calling it nowadays, when the actual code name is zambezi).

I want multiple benchmarks all showing the same thing from multiple sources using different sets of hardware, with the 8150 for instance, being the only constant. The data set we're seeing right now is the CHV MB and bios/whathave you, and when one review (HH) may not correlate completely with the data that was garnered with the CHV because it's using a different Mobo, I want more data with different Mobos to establish a final opinion.

BD didn't meet my expectations, but I don't think it's as bad as the forest fire it's being made out to be.

EDIT:

this quote is sorta what I'm trying to convey:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Found it. Let's see...

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

Notice how these guys use an ASRock 990FX board, with the right BIOS for BD support, using 1866Mhz RAM instead of 1333MHz (and CAS9 1333MHz at that! sloooow), that it seems to do better in benchmarks? Notice how it's also not an ES CPU like in the HardwareCanucks review and actually lists a stepping/revision?

A little variety in reviews can make all the difference...


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Uhm, that kind of stuff ALWAYS happens FAR before launch...










Well AMD is to fault for that one.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


You're putting words in my mouth......

You are MORE than welcome to discuss your feelings about the depressing initial benchmarks. Just keep it within the ToS of OCN, otherwise go elsewhere.

I said that *PERSONAL ATTACKS on JF-AMD* cannot happen, and they WILL be dealt with. Again, its not his fault that the client side, initial Bulldozer reviews sucked.

You wouldn't blame your general mechanic because your car has a problem with the sound system would you? Same situation here. Yes, he still works for AMD, just like the mechanic does stuff on your car. However they're completely different aspects.


I wasn't sure what you meant, that is why I was asking.









But sure, without the "personal attacks" I can agree on.

PS I have some more question though. But you still haven't PM replied.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I don't think that, unless we are talking heavy integer work loads. I think it may help with performance scaling vrs clock speed and power usage and maybe fpu performance. Lots of if ands or butts there as well btw. That is assuming there is a problem to begin with, and that is unknown at this time.


Wasn't it confirmed that the cache and integer scheduler are at fault?


----------



## Hexblade

curently im running a C2D E7400 OC to 3.2, my graphics card is a R6950 with the modded bios of the 6970, AMD claims that bulldozer paired up with a Radeon6000 series card would make for a wicked gaming rig, my question is, true or false ?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Wasn't it confirmed that the cache and integer scheduler are at fault?


Cache is as slow as slugs


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hexblade*


curently im running a C2D E7400 OC to 3.2, my graphics card is a R6950 with the modded bios of the 6970, AMD claims that bulldozer paired up with a Radeon6000 series card would make for a wicked gaming rig, my question is, true or false ?


False

In all honesty, if you overclock properly then Bulldozer will easily beat your C2D in single threaded and completely stomp on it in multi-threaded...

But that doesn't change the fact that a 2500k would be cheaper, WAYYY better in single threaded, and slightly slower in >4 threaded. A 2600k would be a little more expensive (smaller than the difference between the 2500k and 8150) and would completely crush it in everything.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Wasn't it confirmed that the cache and integer scheduler are at fault?


It has been suggested that performance may suffer do to issues with either or both.

BTW this is interesting










http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Wasn't it confirmed that the cache and integer scheduler are at fault?


Is that a windows issue?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Cache is as slow as slugs


That could be a bios or timing and clock control issue.


----------



## Seronx

Code:


Code:


Test         Hat's Creaky Old Phenom II     Shiny New Bulldozer (With AVX To Help)
FPU Julia    9,442                          9,578 (11,912)
FPU Mandel   4,804                          4,778 (6,085)
CPU Hash     2,648                          3,679 (with hardware AES)

From Ars Technica, it doesn't even beat Phenom II X4 unless AVX is used

BAD AMD, BAD!!


----------



## thenerdal

Would an AMD cpu be good for gaming still? Or are intel's better? :S


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


False

In all honesty, if you overclock properly then Bulldozer will easily beat your C2D in single threaded and completely stomp on it in multi-threaded...

But that doesn't change the fact that a 2500k would be cheaper, WAYYY better in single threaded, and slightly slower in >4 threaded. A 2600k would be a little more expensive (smaller than the difference between the 2500k and 8150) and would completely crush it in everything.


Usario, sorry about all this man. Good to see you're being reasonable and not defending BD like some of the select few cats around here that have this emotional attachment, i'm guessing.

With that said, clock for clock, the c2d still beats FX in single threaded. Just saying. I realize you said overclocked though.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


It has been suggested that performance may suffer do to issues with either or both.

BTW this is interesting










http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html


Interesting.

Does this program use FMA4? XOP? CVT16?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Is that a windows issue?


No.


----------



## Scorpion87

My hopes for the Dozer get up again









But i'm desperately searching for info on that windows update, which is rumored to come out via the M$ update, and cant find any.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Usario, sorry about all this man. Good to see you're being reasonable and not defending BD like some of the select few cats around here that have this emotional attachment, i'm guessing.

With that said, clock for clock, the c2d still beats FX in single threaded. Just saying. I realize you said overclocked though.


For people running single threaded app's, thats a very pertinent concern. I am not one of those people.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Interesting.

Does this program use FMA4? XOP? CVT16?

No.


AFAIK, it does not and its fairly old.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Would an AMD cpu be good for gaming still? Or are intel's better? :S


No unfortunately AMD and cpus is over.

Even in the gaming benches the BD loses. So no, definitely get an Intel. Probably 2500K if you want something cheaper. I7 2600K is still on top of course.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


For people running single threaded app's, thats a very pertinent concern. I am not one of those people.


It wasn't in reference to you or any particular body. It was fact.


----------



## Mastervivi10

Quote:



But i'm desperately searching for info on that windows update, which is rumored to come out via the M$ update, and cant find any.


There was a M$ update this Tuesday, but it was mostly Security updates.


----------



## Mastervivi10

Quote:



But i'm desperately searching for info on that windows update, which is rumored to come out via the M$ update, and cant find any.


There was a M$ update this Tuesday, but it was mostly Security updates.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


Usario, sorry about all this man. Good to see you're being reasonable and not defending BD like some of the select few cats around here that have this emotional attachment, i'm guessing.

With that said, clock for clock, the c2d still beats FX in single threaded. Just saying. I realize you said overclocked though.


I'm in no mood to defend a company that has been constantly delaying a product for two years, hyping it up and claiming it's wonderful and then when it actually comes it's slower than the previous product from the same company and costs $100 more.

Yes, C2D/Q is about 15% faster in single threaded than FX. However, his E7200 is running at 3.2GHz whereas FX can easily pass 4.5GHz. Regardless, a 2500k has a better price/performance ratio (especially for games, in which you see the 2500k's 40-50% IPC advantage).


----------



## Seronx

nothing to do but to post crying pictures


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I'm in no mood to defend a company that has been constantly delaying a product for two years, hyping it up and claiming it's wonderful and then when it actually comes it's slower than the previous product from the same company and costs $100 more.

Yes, C2D/Q is about 15% faster in single threaded than FX. However, his E7200 is running at 3.2GHz whereas FX can easily pass 4.5GHz. Regardless, a 2500k has a better price/performance ratio (especially for games, in which you see the 2500k's 40-50% IPC advantage).


----------



## supersaiyenx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Thats not true. I wasn't attacking the person. The point is that he was in here making all those statements about the BD cpu. Which in large part wasn't true.

I just don't like the way this has been handled. Or what the person did. I just don't like the information that is now confirmed to be untrue. But what, should we not be able to talk about the person now? Thats just not fair.

It has nothing to do with a "SERVER" side. There aren't any "consumer" side here are there.

But not able to all of a sudden talk about it is unfair.


You can't expect someone on the Server side to have answers for us on the consumer side besides having an opinion or delivering a message from the right people. What he was telling us is what he was authorized to say, can't expect a lot to be said. Your right though everyone should be able to speak to him but in a more mature matter. If he was a consumer rep then yes its a different story but fingers being pointed him for something he can't control is ridiculous.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


For people running single threaded app's, thats a very pertinent concern. I am not one of those people.


Actually, it's a concern for everyone. Unless all of your programs are coded to utilize more than six cores.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


AFAIK, it does not and its fairly old.


Perhaps it doesn't properly utilize SB then? But then again, what OLD instructions does BD have that SB doesn't?


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mastervivi10*


There was a M$ update this Tuesday, but it was mostly Security updates.


Nono i meant the update for the Dozer, which should fix the issue with the OS/kernel<->Core/module addressing, because of the new architecture.


----------



## pcclock

Maximum I would say is get something worth it. And definitely fast.


----------



## pioneerisloud

For those of you that are addressing the updates....

How many of you have a Bulldozer? Doesn't MS Updates only apply to hardware that you have installed? If so, how could you possibly have gotten the update, if you don't have a Bulldozer installed, as it would be a driver of sorts is my guess.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scorpion87*


Nono i meant the update for the Dozer, which should fix the issue with the OS/kernel<->Core/module addressing, because of the new architecture.


You don't have to wait for the update.

Install Gentoo! Oh, wait, by the time you'd actually get Gentoo to work well with Bulldozer and ACTUALLY INSTALL IT, the update would have already been released


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


What has that (and picture) got to do with me?

Maximum I would say is get something worth it. And definitely fast.


Guess it's time to make the leap foward to Intel. Goodbye AMD.


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


For those of you that are addressing the updates....

How many of you have a Bulldozer? Doesn't MS Updates only apply to hardware that you have installed? If so, how could you possibly have gotten the update, if you don't have a Bulldozer installed, as it would be a driver of sorts is my guess.


Well i might not have one, but i'd like to be informed on how they'll solve that problem...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Actually, it's a concern for everyone. Unless all of your programs are coded to utilize more than six cores.


 In my use case, its a might bit different. I have my primary DAW interface for instance, and that interface uses upto 6 cpu cores. that Daw also spins out threads for each vsti, some vsti's and vst also span threads.

So for me, single threaded performance does matter, but being able to flight more threads and having more threads matters more. YMMV. Right now with the current data, I see no reason for me to upgrade to a 8core BD based cpu. Looks immature and my thuban is doing just fine.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Perhaps it doesn't properly utilize SB then? But then again, what OLD instructions does BD have that SB doesn't?



Maybe it has to do with the model used to program it and the compiler and the underlying optimizations.

I just thought it was interesting. It also makes my broader point. buy the cpu that fits your workload. It would be silly to buy a cpu that doesn't.


----------



## Seronx

B3 is the new stepping


----------



## Schmuckley

..I'm wondering exactly what kind of workload bulldozer's supposed to fit?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


..I'm wondering exactly what kind of workload bulldozer's supposed to fit?













































apparently this one.


----------



## Optimus_Prime

I still say that the software can and will be optimized for the NEW architecture and just might unlock the beast within.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


It isn't JF-AMD's fault that Bulldozer flopped with these initial benchmarks. It's not fair to him to be personally attacking him over something that he had no control over.


Good point, and I don't think I was attacking him, I was just calling him out on the things he said to us that weren't factual. I already said enough on the matter, it is what it is.









Which review do you guys feel has been the most accurate? Besides Hardware Heaven.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*


..I'm wondering exactly what kind of workload bulldozer's supposed to fit?













































Workloads where people do not care about power and temperature

LIKE THE SERVER MARKET!! ofcourse!!!










Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Which review do you guys feel has been the most accurate? Besides Hardware Heaven.










All of them they all show the "8-cores" losing to the 4-cores


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Good point, and I don't think I was attacking him, I was just calling him out on the things he said to us that weren't factual. I already said enough on the matter, it is what it is.









Which review do you guys feel has been the most accurate? Besides Hardware Heaven.










You are claiming his statements were not factual, what about situations were the software just plain don't like bulldozer uarch ? does that mean that he lied ? or that current software doesn't work well with BD uarch ?

I mean, its your assertion vrs AMD engineering. flatly if they did lie, they'd be likely to be sued for false advertising by their competitor.


----------



## SCollins

bulldozer design blow Intel out of the water on solid works, Thats a huge victory for AMD as thats a huge marketspace for them to sell hardware to, a place where Intel has dominated for a long time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Workloads where people do not care about power and temperature

LIKE THE SERVER MARKET!! ofcourse!!!


----------



## pcclock

How can software issues be the solution or bios problems with cache? Or whatever was said a bit earlier?

Clearly they must have had the BD in their hands long before the press kits arrived and "must" have overly tested it. And only "now" that its out their saying "oh maybe its the bios or software win7" problem?

I mean cmon, they must have known that and than probably long ago fixed it.

This feels more like "the thing at the moment" and 10 pages later we all forgot what it was about again. Also because along the lines we find out that not to be true.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news....aspx?pageid=0

Guess it was for Bulldozer


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


How can software issues be the solution or bios problems with cache? Or whatever was said a bit earlier?

Clearly they must have had the BD in their hands long before the press kits arrived and "must" have overly tested it. And only "now" that its out their saying "oh maybe its the bios or software win7" problem?

I mean cmon, they must have known that and than probably long ago fixed it.

This feels more like "the thing at the moment" and 10 pages later we all forgot what it was about again. Also because along the lines we find out that not to be true.


They probably said get it out there, to many delays. We will deal with optimizations once its in the wild.


----------



## AMDrocks

Morning people, what did i miss??


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


How can software issues be the solution or bios problems with cache? Or whatever was said a bit earlier?

Clearly they must have had the BD in their hands long before the press kits arrived and "must" have overly tested it. And only "now" that its out their saying "oh maybe its the bios or software win7" problem?

I mean cmon, they must have known that and than probably long ago fixed it.

This feels more like "the thing at the moment" and 10 pages later we all forgot what it was about again. Also because along the lines we find out that not to be true.


You can test and test and test, and then the real world jumps in after you ship and you go, wow, never thought that would happen.

I am not convinced that AMD didn't have due diligence, I am not convinced its a bios problem, I am not convinced it is the windows scheduler " though its so awful it make BD fial look like a success"

I am just waiting to see what happens. However that solid works benchmark has my attention. It is usually a good indicator for the types of work loads I run.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


They probably said get it out there, to many delays. We will deal with optimizations once its in the wild.


Or they figured everything was rocking, it got in the wild and they found tons of problems and the momentum to launch and share holder pressure and BOD pressure simply forced the situation.

Or, current software just sucks for the most part on BD, which I suspect is the most likely issue.

Lets see how many companies release patchs over the next 30-90 days. That will speak volumes !


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buckaroo*


They probably said get it out there, to many delays. We will deal with optimizations once its in the wild.


Why should people buy bulldozer with the assumption that its performance will get better over time? People are looking to get performance right now, not a couple of years down the line.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Or they figured everything was rocking, it got in the wild and they found tons of problems and the momentum to launch and share holder pressure and BOD pressure simply forced the situation.

Or, current software just sucks for the most part on BD, which I suspect is the most likely issue.

Lets see how many companies release patchs over the next 30-90 days. That will speak volumes !


Exactly.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dr. Zoidberg*


Why should people buy bulldozer with the assumption that its performance will get better over time? People are looking to get performance right now, not a couple of years down the line.


Becuase HP "insert OEM" is going to buy and sell these very budget 4 6 8 core cpu's in volume and they will have no choice but to fix the problems.

Most of which is software is my guess. By software I mean all kinds


----------



## AMDrocks

I am lost, What are we talking about?????

Why bulldozer is the way it is?????????


----------



## Usario

Sorry guys, but I just can't believe that somehow performance will get so much better.

That Solid Works benchmark means nothing because it says the 4170 is faster than the 8150.

I'd be glad if it did, but I don't see it happening.

And as another poster pointed out, people need performance TODAY.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


I am lost, What are we talking about?????

Why bulldozer is the way it is?????????


Everyone has lost their marbles because of the first batch of reviews on BD. Seems there are issues galore on allot of fronts from strange testing methods to software/bios issues, and the results of the tests too. I say give it about two weeks and everything should sort out (I hope, I'm getting a headache from all the BD hate posts).


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


(I hope, I'm getting a headache from all the BD hate posts).


Why is that ?


----------



## Superpuperdudle

Reguardless of how BD does, i will still remain loyal to AMD, since, unlike INTEL, AMD doesnt hire children to work in sweat shops, instead AMD hired 2 monkeys, a banana, a bycicly tire, and an old traffic cone to make their CPU's and drivers. Which sucks since for some reason the banana ALWAYS takes extended vacations with no notice


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news....aspx?pageid=0

Guess it was for Bulldozer


I think there are a few people here "Drinking the cool-aid".

What if this, what if that, what if later, what if bios...

What if it just sucks?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news....aspx?pageid=0

Guess it was for Bulldozer


I remember when that article first came out. Everyone wrote it off. Fake engineer, fake article, blah.

Quote:



"Bulldozer is going to disappoint people because we did not get the resources to build a great CPU, and it's not that we needed billions of dollars to make it a leader. We needed investment in people, tools and technology."
As every competitive spirit, one of our sources went on to confirm the quote above and expressed concern that "Bulldozerâ€™s client performance is not going to be enough to deliver growth in the enterprise and in my view, that is the biggest driver behind our current strategy."



This quote gave me shivers. This is the AMD i miss.

Quote:



"There are more people like me at AMD that want to go and fight from an engineering perspective in the same spirit of the old Jerry Sanders days. We don't want an AMD that is going off and writing blogs about transparency and fluff, while engineers are frustrated. Engineers are not getting the resources they need, we're not getting the time and the investment we to build and optimize new architectures.

Instead, they feed marketing fluff and kool-aid, and all these self-centered blogs - instead of focusing on doing what we know how to do best. *Fight, survive and challenge against all odds*.


----------



## AMDrocks

So you guys think it is he CHEVY that is causing poor performance?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

That sig quote is amazing, lol'ed when I read it.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Sorry guys, but I just can't believe that somehow performance will get so much better.

That Solid Works benchmark means nothing because it says the 4170 is faster than the 8150.

I'd be glad if it did, but I don't see it happening.

And as another poster pointed out, people need performance TODAY.


Solid works runs a max of 4 thread IIRC, I can check tommorow when I get to work and see if that is true.

Let me clue you in, if GM "insert large corporation here" can reduce render times by 40-50%, you better belive they will be upgrading right away. Engineer time is worth more then a CPU.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


What if it just sucks?


Buying Sandy Bridge-E

FX-8150 32 Flops x 5GHz = 160GFlops but it gets 1/4 of that 40-46 GFlops

i7 3960X 96 Flops x 5GHz = 480GFlops in some cases it will only get 1/2 of that 240GFlops ain't bad looking

45 GFlops = $280

240/45 = 5X

$280 x 5 and 1/3rd = $1500

But they are selling them for $1000

Price/Performance/Power is obviously Intel forever

For $500 bucks off I would so totally buy a SB-E Hexa-core right now


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I mean, its your assertion vrs AMD engineering. flatly if they did lie, they'd be likely to be sued for false advertising by their competitor.


I'm only gonna say this once, and I'm not going to address all your points as I don't feel like arguing with you. You bring up my Assertion of False Advertising, please show me one website which shows a 980X scoring 5.41 in Cinebench like AMD has shown in their video.



For reference:


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm only gonna say this once, and I'm not going to address all your points as I don't feel like arguing with you. You bring up my Assertion of False Advertising, please show me one website which shows a 980X scoring 5.41 in Cinebench like AMD has shown in their video. 
]


You obviously missed my post, I said Solid works, if that trend is true, then I expect large corporations to upgrade seats in DROVES.I do not have the cpu's to test this, so I will have to rely on 3rd party data.

I find it interesting though. To be honest I don't care about cinebench. It is well optimized for the intel uarch "compiler issues aside" and it will perform better on the Intel Uarch, unless AMD copy's the entire Intel Uarch.


----------



## robbo2

I do feel like, with that cinebench score and JF-AMD saying the IPC will be higher that AMD are taking a bad approach to this. I don't like being lied to or being fed false benchmark scores.


----------



## polyzp

First of all that was a mistake. They meant 2500k... thats the test they had it compared with all along.

Next, I would like to say that bulldozer isnt a flop. Im sure when things are better optimized to work with bulldozer, especialy in windows, well see its true performance. AMD didnt want to have to wait till after sandy bridge e to release it even if they managed to get it properly coded.

As of now bulldozer is better than 1100t in all tests, given the fact that it can easily oc to 4.9-5.2 ghz while 1100t is limited to around 4.2 ghz. This more than makes up for the lost IPC.. So it IS better IPC, J FD never lied !!

Just think of it as a die shrunk 32 nm phenom II x8 (ocing to 4.1-4.3 ghz)


----------



## AMDrocks

Now, It is really fuzzy, But i am positive that does not say Intel Core i7 990X, It looks like FX-8120 possibly???


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *polyzp*


Just think of it as a die shrunk 32 nm phenom II x8 (ocing to 4.1-4.3 ghz)










but its not, a die shrink would mean less power n less heat.

as for games the fx-8150 loses and in some cases can't even run XD 
ie:Shogun 2

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...-8150-review/9

"Note: an issue with the Steam version of Shogun 2 and the FX-8150 caused the system to crash when it tried to load the level. AMD is looking into the situation."


----------



## Dr. Zoidberg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *polyzp*


First of all that was a mistake. They meant 2500k... thats the test they had it compared with all along.

Next, I would like to say that bulldozer isnt a flop. Im sure when things are better optimized to work with bulldozer, especialy in windows, well see its true performance. AMD didnt want to have to wait till after sandy bridge e to release it even if they managed to get it properly coded.

As of now bulldozer is better than 1100t in all tests, given the fact that it can easily oc to 4.9-5.2 ghz while 1100t is limited to around 4.2 ghz. This more than makes up for the lost IPC.. So it IS better IPC, J FD never lied !!

Just think of it as a die shrunk 32 nm phenom II x8 (ocing to 4.1-4.3 ghz)










It's pretty funny. I never heard Intel making all these statements insisting software was not optimized for their cpu's. Just face it, bulldozer is much less than we all expected. By the way, though you say AMD made a mistake in their video, the comments clearly indicated that the score for the i7-980x in cinebench was incorrect. Yet, what does AMD do? They disable comments without even correcting or removing the video.


----------



## AMDrocks

Well, Actually, In the anandtech benchmarks, Against the 1100T, In gaming it trades blows, So it does not SUCK at gaming, But more like could of been much better. So it is not actually worst than Phenom II.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *polyzp*


First of all that was a mistake. They meant 2500k... thats the test they had it compared with all along.

Next, I would like to say that bulldozer isnt a flop. Im sure when things are better optimized to work with bulldozer, especialy in windows, well see its true performance. AMD didnt want to have to wait till after sandy bridge e to release it even if they managed to get it properly coded.

As of now bulldozer is better than 1100t in all tests, given the fact that it can easily oc to 4.9-5.2 ghz while 1100t is limited to around 4.2 ghz. This more than makes up for the lost IPC.. So it IS better IPC, J FD never lied !!

Just think of it as a die shrunk 32 nm phenom II x8 (ocing to 4.1-4.3 ghz)










I like your smart witty replies. Welcome to OCN.









I'm fully aware that it's the 2500K score, AMD did fix it in the credits, but they did not fix it in the slide people will see. As it is, that slide is very misleading because the uninformed will look at it and think that it's faster than the 980X. Most people don't read the credits, as each one is up for under a second.

Very funny on your other points.









Unless you were being serious.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


Well, Actually, In the anandtech benchmarks, Against the 1100T, In gaming it trades blows, So it does not SUCK at gaming, But more like could of been much better. So it is not actually worst than Phenom II.


On the ones that aren't as cpu limited.

There's a difference between trading blows and lucking out.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I'm only gonna say this once, and I'm not going to address all your points as I don't feel like arguing with you. You bring up my Assertion of False Advertising, please show me one website which shows a 980X scoring 5.41 in Cinebench like AMD has shown in their video.



For reference:




Technically it isn't false advertising because they didn't say the clock speed that the 980X was running at. It's well within possibility that this is a real result but it was at around 2GHz.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *polyzp*


First of all that was a mistake. They meant 2500k... thats the test they had it compared with all along.

Next, I would like to say that bulldozer isnt a flop. Im sure when things are better optimized to work with bulldozer, especialy in windows, well see its true performance. AMD didnt want to have to wait till after sandy bridge e to release it even if they managed to get it properly coded.


Unless this whole catastrophic L1 cache thing is true (and at this point it's no more than a rumor), then there's no way that software updates will help a crappy CPU.

Food for thought: has a new architecture ever failed so terribly because of a software issue?

Quote:



As of now bulldozer is better than 1100t in all tests, given the fact that it can easily oc to 4.9-5.2 ghz while 1100t is limited to around 4.2 ghz. This more than makes up for the lost IPC.. So it IS better IPC, J FD never lied !!


No, it doesn't make up for the lost IPC.

IPC = instructions per cycle. I can have a 9001GHz CPU but if it only executes 1 instruction per cycle then it will lose to a 1GHz CPU that can execute 9001 instructions per cycle.

Quote:



Just think of it as a die shrunk 32 nm phenom II x8 (ocing to 4.1-4.3 ghz)










32nm Phenom *III* X8 would almost certainly consume less power, overclock near 5GHz, and have considerably better IPC.

The only thing Bulldozer actually improved upon was the IMC, and it still can't match Intel's last-gen CPUs.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Technically it isn't false advertising because they didn't say the clock speed that the 980X was running at. It's well within possibility that this is a real result but it was at around 2GHz.



My god that's the only way, and that is so sad.


----------



## StraightSixZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishhawk*


I have built systems for just over 15 years and have seen so much tech come and go and so many companys choose a new road to take to bring out something new. All AMD did was to create something new they can expand on and have future use with. TO BUILD ON, i as yet have not seen anything any were that AMD stated they were going to kick INTELS ASS, in fact the reveiws i am reading all over about BD is putting BD exactly were AMD wanted for now, in the i5 2600k room, it was never intended to compare or beat the i7, that was brought on only by forum users across the computeing world, and if anyone thinks intel is not takeing a good look at the new bd, well all i can say is please take off your blinders.

P.S. Yes i also think intel is a great product too.


----------



## Jinny1

Has JF-AMD responded yet?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



32nm Phenom *III* X8 would almost certainly consume less power, overclock near 5GHz, and have considerably better IPC.


According to *chew, which according to AMD engineers, this would not be the case. Addings 2 cores to phenom 2 would max it out from an architectual standpoint. It wouldn't be able to clock any higher than Thuban, and power cons. levels are very questionable.

Now, I'd love a 32nm X6 PH3. Why did they HAVE to add more cores. Damn.

edit: was supposed to be an edit* not a double post. -_-


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Has JF-AMD responded yet?


No, and I don't blame him. This thread is a crapstorm.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


According to *chew, which according to AMD engineers, this would not be the case. Addings 2 cores to phenom 2 would max it out from an architectual standpoint. It wouldn't be able to clock any higher than Thuban, and power cons. levels are very questionable.

Now, I'd love a 32nm X6 PH3. Why did they HAVE to add more cores. Damn.

edit: was supposed to be an edit* not a double post. -_-


Ah, my mistake, thanks for clearing that up.

But yeah PH3 X6 would still be better than BD.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No, and I don't blame him. This thread is a crapstorm.


He's online right now and is viewing this thread


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


He's online right now and is viewing this thread

















Haha.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


He's online right now and is viewing this thread

















He's got 1500 or so posts to read.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Has JF-AMD responded yet?


No but he IS online and currently reading this Thread!

Therefore I suggest everyone STOP posting, so he has LESS to get himself caught up on and answer. He's probably sitting there at his desk with several dozen TABS open on his Browser, each one with a Quoted Reply ready to be copy/pasted all into a single post... and the more we add to this, the longer its taking him to review and type his up!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


He left the thread. D:


Exactly, because his profile currently states that he is busy doing Private Messages at the moment... I can't imagine some of the RANTS some of you may have privately sent him through out the day, that he has to deal with.


----------



## pcclock

OK well I got one for than. *looking into my cristal ball* Looks like a penguin, whats the word associate with it again... "LINUX" !!!









Run a benchmark on Linux and we'll see. Positively though the MS is not the problem.

And if it "was" a bios problem than why didn't that come out at the 8ghz overclock?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


OK well I got one for than. *looking into my cristal ball* Looks like a penguin, whats the word associate with it again... "LINUX" !!!









Run a benchmark on Linux and we'll see. Positively though the MS is not the problem.

And if it "was" a bios problem than why didn't that come out at the 8ghz overclock?










lolwut


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


No but he IS online and currently reading this Thread!

Therefore I suggest everyone STOP posting, so he has LESS to get himself caught up on and answer. He's probably sitting there at his desk with several dozen TABS open on his Browser, each one with a Quoted Reply ready to be copy/pasted all into a single post... and the more we add to this, the longer its taking him to review and type his up!


He left the thread. D:


----------



## cjc75

Actually... I would suggest that a MOD temporarily LOCK this thread just so JF-AMD can get himself all caught up on it; and not unlock it, until he personally requests it be unlocked so he can post his response!


----------



## Seronx

I personally say:
*#OccupyAMD*


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


He left the thread. D:


he got scared..


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


Actually... I would suggest that a MOD temporarily LOCK this thread just so JF-AMD can get himself all caught up on it; and not unlock it, until he personally requests it be unlocked so he can post his response!


i say we try to reach 1000 pages ASAP


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Sorry guys, but I just can't believe that somehow performance will get so much better.

That Solid Works benchmark means nothing because it says the 4170 is faster than the 8150.

I'd be glad if it did, but I don't see it happening.

And as another poster pointed out, people need performance TODAY.



Quote:



*Intel or AMD with SSE2 support and 64-bit operating system*


hmmm

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support...uirements.html

No way AMD could be trouncing intel in sse2 that bad ?


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


lolwut


Yea that was a reply to already 5 pages back. It goes really really fast.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cjc75*


Actually... I would suggest that a MOD temporarily LOCK this thread just so JF-AMD can get himself all caught up on it; and not unlock it, until he personally requests it be unlocked so he can post his response!


Does it really matter? What's he gonna say that's going to magically change everyone's mind about Zambezi?


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


i say we try to reach 1000 pages ASAP


This.


----------



## swindle

Like mental fast.

Trying to keep up an hour before NDA drop was hard.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Homeles*


Does it really matter? What's he gonna say that's going to magically change everyone's mind about Zambezi?


What about those, who have more open minds ??


----------



## FlighterPilot

1000 pages


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


This.


is


----------



## SCollins

What a 1000page thread where people talk endless amount of smack, about things that are difficult to understand ?


----------



## FlighterPilot

here it comes!


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *omni_vision*


is


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FlighterPilot*


here it comes!



Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*












\\o/


----------



## daman246

yesterday it was around 700pages wow so much crap in this thread


----------



## Optimus_Prime

I still have hope and besides till the 7000 GPU series when i upgrade i hope the so called isues are fixed.


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *daman246*


yesterday it was around 700pages wow so much crap in this thread


it is a thread about crap


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *omni_vision*


it is a thread about crap


Its funny cause BD is crap..

1000? yea.. Bulldozer you failed me..


----------



## thenerdal

Happy 1000 pages!


----------



## Optimus_Prime

So is the thread beeing closed at 1000 pages cause the purpoes for it beeing alive is no more and rly JF i wan't to see you reacion/reply.


----------



## SCollins

Page Level 1000 ?


----------



## Dmac73

This thread should just get deleted. The products launched. Wasn't this a preblog information thread.


----------



## thenerdal

There we go. Happy 1000 pages!







Wooo. Now AMD is gonna release the real Bulldozer.

/s


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


Happy 1000 pages!










now


----------



## conzilla

Yes this thread has turned into crap.


----------



## mystikalrush

Are these benchmark power consumptions in real world usage real? say a oc'd 8150 at 4.2-4.8 with a gtx 580, from what i see you would need like a 900w at minimum? or please tell me im wrong, cause i cant belive any single highend card with this cpu on my tx750 wouldnt be enough to run it?!


----------



## Jinny1

1000th page!


----------



## Optimus_Prime

yey first 1000 pages post


----------



## stangcharger

Truly disappointed.


----------



## SCollins

post 10,001


----------



## ACHILEE5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dmac73*


10000th


Nah, maybe me









edit, missed it


----------



## Seronx




----------



## BloodyRory

It's over 1000?

Is this seriously how much rage has been caused due to Bulldozer so far?


----------



## daman246

it uses those Watt in 100% load its not like your gonna run Prime95 together with furmark lol


----------



## thenerdal

1001th! 999 until 2000! Is such a thing even possible?


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Optimus_Prime*


So is the thread beeing closed at 1000 pages cause the purpoes for it beeing alive is no more and rly JF i wan't to see you reacion/reply.


JF is a server guy.. why would he have anything to say about this? get outta here troll!


----------



## Optimus_Prime

So much pain for entusiasts but amd does not care aparently.....>.> and i was a diehard AMD fan now i am rly dissapointed.


----------



## Seronx

Time to make a new thread

Piledriver Blog Live! LUL


----------



## omni_vision

Quote:



Originally Posted by *daman246*


it uses those Watt in 100% load its not like your gonna run Prime95 together with furmark lol


bf3 witcher 2 ya they'll use the power


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Time to make a new thread

Piledriver Blog Live! LUL


This ^


----------



## swindle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *daman246*


it uses those Watt in 100% load its not like your gonna run Prime95 together with furmark lol


Bet you'll see close to 100% load on BF3, maxed settings with some big GPUs behind it.

My X4 @ 4.4GHz ran a constant 100%, not only in BF3 BETA, but in BFBC2 also.


----------



## radaja

*windows 7 patch has been released and BD is fixed!!!*


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Time to make a new thread

Piledriver Blog Live! LUL


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radaja*


*windows 7 patch has been released and BD is fixed!!!*
















































are you sure thats not a linux vrs windows kernel benchmark ?


----------



## Erick

I've read the review on hardwareheaven and over there the fx8150 is on par with 2600k in high res gaming with a GTX580.

Is that correct? If it is i'm really happy, and will buy it as soon as possible.

Good thing i have a extra 500W PSU lying around to power up the cpu only lol!


----------



## Seronx




----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishhawk*


I have built systems for just over 15 years and have seen so much tech come and go and so many companys choose a new road to take to bring out something new. *All AMD did was to create something new they can expand on and have future use with. TO BUILD ON, i as yet have not seen anything any were that AMD stated they were going to kick INTELS ASS*, in fact the reveiws i am reading all over about BD is putting BD exactly were AMD wanted for now, in the i5 2600k room, it was never intended to compare or beat the i7, that was brought on only by forum users across the computeing world, and if anyone thinks intel is not takeing a good look at the new bd, well all i can say is please take off your blinders.

P.S. Yes i also think intel is a great product too.


Perhaps you didn't come across this article?

This is 1st slide is straight FROM AMD and their Financial Analyst day.










Quote:



*Bulldozer is the name, crushing Intel is the game*
But what about Bulldozer? The big news is that it will form the basis of AMD's first massively multi-core PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Bulldozer will also be fully compatible with AMD's so-called M-SPACE modular CPU design.

*How fast is she, mister?*
It all sounds pretty impressive on paper. But how fast will this 16-core chip be in practice? Well, according to AMD, Bulldozer is designed to be nothing less than "the highest performing single and multi-threaded compute core in history".

If AMD is to be believed, Bulldozer will improve upon every metric of CPU performance. From performance per watt to outright multi-threaded performance and old school single-threaded oomph, it's promised Bulldozer will be the new king.


http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...or-2009-146488


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *supersaiyenx*


You can't expect someone on the Server side to have answers for us on the consumer side besides having an opinion or delivering a message from the right people. What he was telling us is what he was authorized to say, can't expect a lot to be said. Your right though everyone should be able to speak to him but in a more mature matter. If he was a consumer rep then yes its a different story but fingers being pointed him for something he can't control is ridiculous.


I was gonna reply earlier but of course this topic grows a little fast.









I don't like someone saying all that stuff basically lying all along. First starts with "I cannot confirm this or that", "I cannot talk about it before nor after". Always a lame excuse. And always these bogus posts barely saying anything useful but of course "this has been improved/that has been improved". We see the result now of how much it has been improved! Nada nil. It is actually worse than the AMDs out already.

I don't like that basically. And saying pointing the finger at him for something he can't control isn't exactly correct. He did have control over that. He must have known the stuff, after all thats where he works and the way he talks about it he must know. I don't like people lying saying how great it is and faster and all that.
And here we are at the end and now we all know it not to be true. You know. Saying all the nice stuff and it not to be true. Not really happy with that. You know.

Being as mannered and civil as possible.


----------



## thenerdal

This thread reminds me of the "iPhone 5 Blog is Live!" thread on Macrumors. Such a dissapointment was made when they revealed each product.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


I was gonna reply earlier but of course this topic grows a little fast.









I don't like someone saying all that stuff basically lying all along. First starts with "I cannot confirm this or that", "I cannot talk about it before nor after". Always a lame excuse. And always these bogus posts barely saying anything useful but of course "this has been improved/that has been improved". We see the result now of how much it has been improved! Nada nil. It is actually worse than the AMDs out already.

I don't like that basically. And saying pointing the finger at him for something he can't control isn't exactly correct. He did have control over that. He must have known the stuff, after all thats where he works and the way he talks about it he must know. I don't like people lying saying how great it is and faster and all that.
And here we are at the end and now we all know it not to be true. You know. Saying all the nice stuff and it not to be true. Not really happy with that. You know.

Being as mannered and civil as possible.










Being that JF-AMD works in the server side of AMD, its fully possible that the server variants of Bulldozer don't have this issue we're seeing, and they really are a great CPU. Maybe he hasn't been lying, and its just a software bug that's causing the poor performance we're seeing.

Nobody knows for sure yet. All we know is the initial launch is hard to swallow.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Has amd announced anything on why the performance is so bad?

I'm really hoping something is wrong...


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*


Has amd announced anything on why the performance is so bad?

I'm really hoping something is wrong...


Same.


----------



## pcclock

So as I said earlier. Try it out on Linux. Than see.

And the software thing is a "rumor" thus far. Absolute NO concrete evidence has been presented. It arose like a few pages back or whatever.

How long is this wait gonna be? More waiting... Who knows, maybe more disappointed after.


----------



## catharsis

Well amd, I gotta say I am truly disappointed. I've stuck by you through some tough times. But this new FX processor definitely killed it for me. To think all the money and time you wasted as a company to produce a product which in certain cases is even inferior to your existing line up is a disgrace. I really hope you do make it out of the hole you have dug yourself as a company. Perhaps bulldozer on server side will fare better.

But after the benches released today, I went ahead and ordered my i5 2500k. Atleast I know I got my moneys worth. Something AMD used to offer me, but no longer. I'm sure a lot of people on these boards will do the same. As for the OEM, I don't see them adopting the FX series heavily. Quite frankly AMD you needed to do much better to stay competitive. The only part of your company that seems to be worth anything is the GPU side. But they were bought up and aren't even really "amd".


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Being that JF-AMD works in the server side of AMD, its fully possible that the server variants of Bulldozer don't have this issue we're seeing, and they really are a great CPU. Maybe he hasn't been lying, and its just a software bug that's causing the poor performance we're seeing.

Nobody knows for sure yet. All we know is the initial launch is hard to swallow.


I know for sure Interlagos is going to fail

Especially in the TOP500 it ain't gonna get nothing in that

Orochi "16-core"
(64 x 3.1) / 4 = 49.6 GFlops
Magny Cours 12-core
(48 x 2.3) / 2 = 55 GFlops


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*


Has amd announced anything on why the performance is so bad?

I'm really hoping something is wrong...


Look like JF-AMD is still active, he posted a blog today. 
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/10/12...9s-a-dry-heat/

AMD has posted a Press Release:
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsr.../newsroom.aspx

Quote:



*Unlock Your Record Setting AMD FX Series Processor Today*

October 12, 2011 -- With the first eight-core desktop processor, enthusiasts and overclockers get an amazing PC experience at unheard of prices

AMD (NYSE: AMD) today unleashed the AMD FX family of CPUs, delivering a fully unlocked and customizable experience for desktop PC users. The AMD FX series of desktop CPUs includes the first-ever eight-core desktop processor, enabling extreme multi-display gaming, mega-tasking and HD content creation for PC and digital enthusiasts - all for less than $245 (suggested U.S. retail price). This marks the first retail availability of processors that use AMD's new multi-core architecture (codenamed "Bulldozer"), which is included in AMD's upcoming server CPU (codenamed "Interlagos") and the next-generation of AMD Accelerated Processing Units.

"AMD FX CPUs are back with a vengeance, as validated by the recent feat of setting a Guinness World RecordsÂ® title for 'Highest Frequency of a Computer Processor,'" said Chris Cloran, corporate vice president and general manager, Client Group at AMD. "While overclockers will certainly enjoy the frequencies the AMD FX processors can achieve, PC enthusiasts and HD media aficionados will appreciate the remarkable experience that AMD FX processors can provide as part of a balanced, affordable desktop system."

All AMD FX CPUs offer completely unlocked processor clock multipliers for easier overclocking, paving the way for PC enthusiasts to enjoy higher CPU speeds and related performance gains. Additionally, these processors use AMD Turbo Core Technology to dynamically optimize performance across CPU cores enabling maximum performance for intense workloads.

Without spending a small fortune, users can combine an AMD FX CPU with an AMD 9-series chipset motherboard and AMD Radeon™ HD 6000 series graphics cards to create the AMD "Scorpius" platform for an astounding gaming and HD entertainment experience. As part of the "Scorpius" platform, AMD FX CPUs also support AMD CrossFireX™ technology, which allows the combination of multiple graphics cards in a PC for stunning visual experiences, and AMD Eyefinity technology support for super resolution on up to six monitors.1 With AMD CatalystControl Center™ / AMD VISION Engine Control Center, users can get regular updates to help improve system performance and stability, and to add new software enhancements.


My opinion, fire your copywriters, hire more engineers.


----------



## kchris

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Perhaps you didn't come across this article?

This is 1st slide is straight FROM AMD and their Financial Analyst day.










http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...or-2009-146488


Embarrassing.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


are you sure thats not a linux vrs windows kernel benchmark ?


Nah, they are still having trouble to explain to the linux kernel that those are 8 cores, it still thinks amd is joking


----------



## kahboom

Go look at the LKML where you'll see Linus & Ingo Molnar calling out AMD for design flaws in Bulldozer's cache that AMD wants to paper-over with kludgy software workarounds in the kernel: http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/p...204200361.html [generation-nt.com]

Seems like AMD knew about the problems since july and never fully worked them out


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


I know for sure Interlagos is going to fail

Especially in the TOP500 it ain't gonna get nothing in that

Orochi "16-core"
(64 x 3.1) / 4 = 49.6 GFlops
Magny Cours 12-core
(48 x 2.3) / 2 = 55 GFlops


Oh those too.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Nah, they are still having trouble to explain to the linux kernel that those are 8 cores, it still thinks amd is joking










Ummm, not really.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



*Without spending a small fortune*, users can combine an AMD FX CPU with an AMD 9-series chipset motherboard and AMD Radeonâ„¢ HD 6000 series graphics cards to create the AMD â€œScorpiusâ€ platform for an astounding gaming and HD entertainment experience. As part of the â€œScorpiusâ€ platform, AMD FX CPUs also support AMD CrossFireXâ„¢ technology, which allows the combination of multiple graphics cards in a PC for stunning visual experiences, and AMD Eyefinity technology support for super resolution on up to six monitors.1 With AMD CatalystControl Centerâ„¢ / AMD VISION Engine Control Center, users can get regular updates to help improve system performance and stability, and to add new software enhancements.



until you see your electric bill. Then you declare chapter 11


----------



## kahboom

If your house is rockin solar panels in the desert where its sunny year round your electric bill is not a problem


----------



## AloiWheelz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Well amd, I gotta say I am truly disappointed. I've stuck by you through some tough times. But this new FX processor definitely killed it for me. To think all the money and time you wasted as a company to produce a product which in certain cases is even inferior to your existing line up is a disgrace. I really hope you do make it out of the hole you have dug yourself as a company. Perhaps bulldozer on server side will fare better.

But after the benches released today, I went ahead and ordered my i5 2500k. Atleast I know I got my moneys worth. Something AMD used to offer me, but no longer. I'm sure a lot of people on these boards will do the same. As for the OEM, I don't see them adopting the FX series heavily. Quite frankly AMD you needed to do much better to stay competitive. The only part of your company that seems to be worth anything is the GPU side. But they were bought up and aren't even really "amd".


I totally agree. I to am going for the 2500k. It is truly disappointing that the rebranded FX chips dont live up to the name of the chips of today. In fact, from a couple of REAL benchmarks I saw, it performs even poorer than the last generation overclocking beast, the i7 920 (in some tests). Its great that AMD have changed their die layout, but they are still in the "previous generation. I now think that the upcoming i7 2700k, Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge will put yet another Cap on AMD like the Core 2 chips originally did, because Intel is clearly always being ahead of the game. But AMD, although performed poorly, still makes Damn good cpu's and graphics cards. Good in my opinion for cheap gaming rigs and HTPC's with high quality graphics and good performance per watt cpus.


----------



## Seronx

Forgot to add "fake" cores


----------



## Usario

This thread has grown 194 pages from yesterday.

Wow. Is this an OCN record?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











Forgot to add "fake" cores


I remember when that was being copypasta'd all the time. So true.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


This thread has grown 194 pages from yesterday.

Wow. Is this an OCN record?


No, this is an OCN tragedy


----------



## Fr0sty

just placed my order for a bd setup

will post pics once it arrives


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











Forgot to add "fake" cores


hahahaha


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


just placed my order for a bd setup

will post pics once it arrives


uh Oh, get ready for insults


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


just placed my order for a bd setup


No offense, but might I ask why?


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











Forgot to add "fake" cores


I see that you've done a complete 180 since yesterday. Are we going to get a million false mathematical prophecies for SB-e now?


----------



## kahboom

Why not if you got the money to play with the FX chips


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


just placed my order for a bd setup

will post pics once it arrives


Where did you find the cpu?! I can't find an 8150 anywhere ):


----------



## kahboom

tigerdirect.com had the fx 8150 for 259.00 shipped

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=1308191

now it says ships in 30-45 days


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I see that you've done a complete 180 since yesterday. Are we going to get a million false mathematical prophecies for SB-e now?


If you mean yesterday as you mean Saturday then yeah, I take everything as fact till proven fake

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,3026.html

and I don't need to provide numbers for something that already has numbers










10.5 Pts at stock overclock it to 4.2GHz then awww yeah


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











Forgot to add "fake" cores


Lol I must say well done.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I see that you've done a complete 180 since yesterday. Are we going to get a million false mathematical prophecies for SB-e now?


We already saw a prophecy for why Interlagos will suck.

Interlagos vs Magny Cours:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*

(64 x 3.1) / 4 = 49.6GFlops
(48 x 2.3) / 2 = 55.2GFlops


He could be right though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sickened1*


Where did you find the cpu?! I can't find an 8150 anywhere ):


Tiger Direct... Newegg... etc


----------



## Buckaroo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sickened1*


Where did you find the cpu?! I can't find an 8150 anywhere ):


Just get the FX8120 and overclock. Same chip just set at lower clock speed.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


We already saw a prophecy for why Interlagos will suck.

Interlagos vs Magny Cours:

He could be right though.

Tiger Direct... Newegg... etc


The 8150 is sold out on NE. It's funny because there was a couple of reviews on the 8150 that advised people to check for reviews before buying, and those have been taken down.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kahboom*


tigerdirect.com had the fx 8150 for 259.00 shipped

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=1308191

now it says ships in 30-45 days












Maybe they are fixing all problems first, That my friends will be beneficial for us.


----------



## imh073p

Sorry about trolling here, feel bad. I am upset with AMD, Hopefully the patches work out and this is just a minor snag. We need competition to keep intel from charging whatever they want and competing with themselves.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


uh Oh, get ready for insults










it's ok i can take it

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


No offense, but might I ask why?


a phenom II that doesnt unlock into a quad ... yep bulldozer is an upgrade for me ... sort of ... all of that is for bf3 ... no gpu except my cheap onboard that i had on my msi 890-gx

so a new rig from scratch is just ok

ps: i can take the insult ... i'll still know that bulldozer sucks ipc wise and ill be happy with it anyway


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


If you mean yesterday as you mean Saturday then yeah, I take everything as fact till proven fake

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,3026.html

and I don't need to provide numbers for something that already has numbers










10.5 Pts at stock overclock it to 4.2GHz then awww yeah


It loses to the 2600k by a frame. How is that an improvement? Get the 2600k and save a few hundred.

Wait, what's CPU? DX? Can't be. What is it?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *imh073p*


Sorry about trolling here, feel bad. I am upset with AMD, Hopefully the patches work out and this is just a minor snag. We need competition to keep intel from charging whatever they want and competing with themselves.


It's a major snag and no software/bios/os/linux/kernel/overclock/undervolt fix

will make AMD Fail Xtreme worth while for me

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


It loses to the 2600k by a frame. How is that an improvement? Get the 2600k and save a few hundred.


Check out the clock rate

i7 3960X 3.3GHz
i7 2600K 3.4GHz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Wait, what's CPU? DX?


CPU equals Multi-core CPU benchmark

AMD FX can't beat 1100T
i7 3960X beats the i7 990X with the i7 3960X with a lower clock of course, Intel is going the right direction for me!!


----------



## thenerdal

What would you guys do if AMD stated that a simple bug fix would make Bulldozer way better than Intel?







(Just asking.)


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Tiger Direct... Newegg... etc


newegg has been out since about an hour after they posted it for sale..

tiger direct is 21 to 40 days shipped which means they dont have it in stock.

for the 8150


----------



## AMDrocks

Yeahhh, I think we can close this thread now, I don't think JF-AMD is gunna post at all.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


What would you guys do if AMD stated that a simple bug fix would make Bulldozer way better than Intel?







(Just asking.)


Won't happen


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Check out the clock rate

i7 3960X 3.3GHz
i7 2600K 3.4GHz

CPU equals Multi-core CPU benchmark


100mhz isn't a big enough clock difference for $200+. I can maybe see it if you plan on running a lot of heavily threaded apps.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Won't happen


I know, but just asking. D:


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


What would you guys do if AMD stated that a simple bug fix would make Bulldozer way better than Intel?







(Just asking.)


The exact opposite of what I'm doing now. Upgrade.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


100mhz isn't a big enough clock difference for $200+. I can maybe see it if you plan on running a lot of heavily threaded apps.


A single frame is going to ruin my gaming experience!










I can dream can't I?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


What would you guys do if AMD stated that a simple bug fix would make Bulldozer way better than Intel?







(Just asking.)


If they increased IPC beyond Sandy Bridge, and lowered power consumption below Sandy Bridge in the process, I'd buy one, maybe even 2.

Let me know when they do that with their Magical BIOS.


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


The exact opposite of what I'm doing now. Upgrade.


So you're downgrading IRL?


----------



## imh073p

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


It's a major snag and no software/bios/os/linux/kernel/overclock/undervolt

will make AMD Fail Xtreme worth while for me


Lol well i cant disagree, but the total Intel domination is a bad thing for us as consumers. I go where the performance is, and that is not AMD, how sad. They need to at least lower the price by like 100$, then it would compete. Not very good pricing at all. But then again, actually having the processor might change my opinion. I remember all the trash talking about fermi, and now its on top after a really rough start. I guess time will tell.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *imh073p*


Lol well i cant disagree, but the total Intel domination is a bad thing for us as consumers. I go where the performance is, and that is not AMD, how sad. They need to at least lower the price by like 100$, then it would compete. Not very good pricing at all. But then again, actually having the processor might change my opinion. I remember all the trash talking about fermi, and now its on top after a really rough start. I guess time will tell.


Fermi had one thing going for it though

It scaled with performance/power in a 1:1 ratio

Fermi GF110 improved that with a 1.2:1 ratio

Barcelona was better than this atleast it brought the 2-Core x 2-Socket performance to the desktop

FX-70x2 = Phenom 9950BE

Phenom beat the last generation with Price($200 instead of $2000), Performance(Same as before) and Power(140 instead of 280)


----------



## Naturecannon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *imh073p*


I am upset with AMD, Hopefully the patches work out and this is just a minor snag. .


If they haven't fixed the "minor snag" these last 4 month then I don't see it happening anytime soon. Its time to put AMD to rest, shove them in the closet and wish them better luck next round. Sad, but AMD has every bit of well deserved flack coming to them. Hype was misleading and border line false advertisement. These last 6 months were a huge fiasco.

AMD bulldozed their own grave......... in my book anyways. Boils down to how it was all handled, not necessarily the HUGE failure itself.








AMD


----------



## raisethe3

Wow, JF hasn't posted in this thread since 3 days ago. I guess he's embarrased.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


It loses to the 2600k by a frame. How is that an improvement? Get the 2600k and save a few hundred.

Wait, what's CPU? DX? Can't be. What is it?


Are people really so dense they can't figure out 1 fps in a benchmark is within margin of error?

SBe isn't a gaming platform, it's for work. It doesn't lose it's gaming performance against 1155 though, that's what AMD does... More slower cores, Intel just tacks on more of the same faster cores.


----------



## thenerdal

At least the CPU comes with a belt buckle.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


SBe isn't a gaming platform, it's for work.


And that work is VERY important.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


A single frame is going to ruin my gaming experience!










I can dream can't I?


That's a nice dream to have. I might even switch if that CPU existed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


So you're downgrading IRL?










Nope, not upgrading. I already did my downgrade for the year, so that quota is filled.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD*

"How will Piledriver get its projected 10 to 15 percent speed up? AMD says one-third will come from IPC improvements like structure size increases (so, three to five percent) and two-thirds will come from power optimizations that reduce consumption, enabling higher frequencies at a constant TDP (another six to 10 percent)."


JEZUS this is Netburst!!! Next thing we are going to see is Double Clocked ALUs and Replay again


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*











Maybe they are fixing all problems first, That my friends will be beneficial for us.


 I guess watch for news.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Are people really so dense they can't figure out 1 fps in a benchmark is within margin of error?

SBe isn't a gaming platform, it's for work. It doesn't lose it's gaming performance against 1155 though, that's what AMD does... More slower cores, Intel just tacks on more of the same faster cores.


Thank you for the assertion that I don't understand margin of error. I was pointing out how worthless SB-e is if your focus is gaming.

Anything else to dispute?


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


Wow, JF hasn't posted in this thread since 3 days ago. I guess he's embarrased.


Can't really blame him for not wanting to show his face around here.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Megacharge*


Can'r really blame him for not wanting to show his face around here.


I really doubt thats the issue. Part of me wonder if there is a scramble going somewhere, trying to figure out what happened.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


I really doubt thats the issue. Part of me wonder if there is a scramble going somewhere, trying to figure out what happened.


CMT failed, This design is a disaster

It's following Netburst like a dog sniffing a trail of poo
(and eating it)


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


CMT failed, This design is a disaster

It's following Netburst like a dog sniffing a trail of poo
(and eating it)


*Cough*

The design is modular, so it's easy to change things. I hardly call that a fail.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


*Cough*

The design is modular, so it's easy to change things. I hardly call that a fail.


one of the only positive thing about the bulldozer architecture


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


*Cough*

The design is modular, so it's easy to change things. I hardly call that a fail.


2 Billion transistors and 315mm^2
vs
1 Billion transistors and 218mm^2

and losing

I hardly would call that a fail...if I had a nail in my head


----------



## CptSpock

Man so much hype and waiting for nothing. Good i played smart and did not buy the AM3+ mobos. Looks like its going to be Intel for me from now on. Goodbye AMD!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


Thank you for the assertion that I don't understand margin of error. I was pointing out how worthless SB-e is if your focus is gaming.

Anything else to dispute?


I'm not sure I catch your drift...

Did you know Cinebench only uses 1 core for the Open GL test?


----------



## Megacharge

Yes, with the right modifications, and a die shrink, BD can be a killer chip. I personally am content to stick with my 1055T for a year or two more and see what AMD can do with this. I don't need the extra CPU power of any of these chips anyway, so I'm good with what I have and I can wait. This fail just saves me some cash, and I'll make a decision down the road if I go back to Intel or stick with AMD.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I'm not sure I catch your drift...

Did you know Cinebench only uses 1 core for the Open GL test?


I did not know that, but it still scores the same. Unless you are now changing your previous stance of more cores not being necessary for gaming, I don't understand where you are coming from.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth*


I did not know that, but it still scores the same. Unless you are now changing your previous stance of more cores not being necessary for gaming, I don't understand where you are coming from.


I figured by now AMD has proven more cores doesn't mean more performance in gaming, so I didn't think that was the reason you were trying to compare SBe vs SB in this type of benchmark. Nor did I really find the connection between SBe and SB in gaming. SB gets IB soon after SBe release, SBe releases with PCIe 2.0, while Gen 3 boards for SB are already out making the transition to PCIe 3.0 easy.

You'll notice how much faster SBe is than the i7-2600k, and you'll also notice it scales nearly perfectly with the i7-2600k in per HT'ed core. Unlike AMD, Intel isn't reducing their per core performance to add moar cores. Intel is bring a multithreading beast, that can still play games, whereas Bulldozer brought us a power hungry flop, that is slower than Phenom II in games.


----------



## Tweeky

I heard that Intel was coming out with a 2400K chip to compete with Bulldozer


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15286050*
> I figured by now AMD has proven more cores doesn't mean more performance in gaming, so I didn't think that was the reason you were trying to compare SBe vs SB in this type of benchmark. Nor did I really find the connection between SBe and SB in gaming. SB gets IB soon after SBe release, SBe releases with PCIe 2.0, while Gen 3 boards for SB are already out making the transition to PCIe 3.0 easy.
> 
> You'll notice how much faster SBe is than the i7-2600k, and you'll also notice it scales nearly perfectly with the i7-2600k in per HT'ed core. Unlike AMD, Intel isn't reducing their per core performance to add moar cores. Intel is bring a multithreading beast, that can still play games, whereas Bulldozer brought us a power hungry flop, that is slower than Phenom II in games.


Sandy Bridge-E will have PCI-E 3.0 they just can't verify it as no GPU will have PCI-E 3.0 till like Q2 2012(Ivy Bridge will be out by late Q2 March I think)

It is great at single threaded tasks
and
It is great at multi threaded tasks

All under a TDP of 130W


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tweeky;15286064*
> I heard that Intel was coming out with a 2400K chip to compete with Bulldozer


No but they released 1366 CPUs 3 years ago lmao.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15286104*
> Sandy Bridge-E will have PCI-E 3.0 they just can't verify it as no GPU will have PCI-E 3.0 till like Q2 2012
> 
> It is great at single threaded tasks
> and
> It is great at multi threaded tasks
> 
> All under a TDP of 130W


Pretty sure it will not have PCIe 3.0, the chip doesn't support it. You may find PCIe 3.0 ready boards, but they'll require an IBe chip to access the additional bandwidth.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15286050*
> I figured by now AMD has proven more cores doesn't mean more performance in gaming, so I didn't think that was the reason you were trying to compare SBe vs SB in this type of benchmark. Nor did I really find the connection between SBe and SB in gaming. SB gets IB soon after SBe release, SBe releases with PCIe 2.0, while Gen 3 boards for SB are already out making the transition to PCIe 3.0 easy.
> 
> You'll notice how much faster SBe is than the i7-2600k, and you'll also notice it scales nearly perfectly with the i7-2600k in per HT'ed core. Unlike AMD, Intel isn't reducing their per core performance to add moar cores. Intel is bring a multithreading beast, that can still play games, whereas Bulldozer brought us a power hungry flop, that is slower than Phenom II in games.


Nope, the only reason I was comparing them was for games use. I said a couple of posts down from the first one you quoted that it would be worth it for people that ran a lot of multithreaded applications.

If you are waiting for SB-e for gaming though, it would be better to either upgrade now or wait for IB.

Just like it is smarter for me to wait until the 8170, or Piledriver.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Stock 955 /w a CHv?

Sorry for your loss


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15286141*
> Pretty sure it will not have PCIe 3.0, the chip doesn't support it. You may find PCIe 3.0 ready boards, but they'll require an IBe chip to access the additional bandwidth.












8 GT/s = PCI-E 3.0


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15286206*
> Stock 955 /w a CHv?
> 
> Sorry for your loss


Thanks. I'm going to OC it this weekend, but this still stings.


----------



## Nocturin

I was reading the discussions earlier, but I coudln't post, and this kept popping into my head. It's still relevant, I feel, in a purely nostalgic sense















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;14691369*
> .../snip
> 
> Since not a lot is known, a lot is unknown.
> 
> .../snip


fr0sty is a wise

(couldn't find the original quote)


----------



## SCollins

I have been conversing with a friend who is much more into cpu uarch then I am, he is a bit mystified by the solidworks scores. I guess we should wait and see if anything changes in the next few days before lighting the torchs, but I guess it doesn't hurt to makes the spears and sharpen them.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15286296*
> I have been conversing with a friend who is much more into cpu uarch then I am, he is a bit mystified by the solidworks scores. I guess we should wait and see if anything changes in the next few days before lighting the torchs, but I guess it doesn't hurt to makes the spears and sharpen them.












Little did we know about the true intent of AMD Frankendozer


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15286209*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 GT/s = PCI-E 3.0


Maybe tom's made an error?










I'm not very versed on 2011 though, so maybe it does.

Either way I'm going to go enjoy some DX11 tessellation in Crysis 2 modded, enjoy yourselves guys!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15286234*
> I was reading the discussions earlier, but I coudln't post, and this kept popping into my head. It's still relevant, I feel, in a purely nostalgic sense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fr0sty is a wise
> 
> (couldn't find the original quote)


Yes he is, he just bought Bulldozer.









Couldn't resist.


----------



## djriful

This is terrible no PCI-E 3.0 support in FX... end of the road here. Ivy Bridge time.


----------



## dalastbmills

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15286221*
> Thanks. I'm going to OC it this weekend, but this still stings.


The 955 overclocks fairly well. On an ancient M2N board (AM2/AM2+) I am able to get it to 3.68 stable. In order for me to get the chip to work properly in my board, I have to manually clock the CPU in windows in the NVIDIA control panel. My buddy has his at 4.2 24/7.

It will probably be my last AMD chip, at least for awhile


----------



## catharsis

Bye bye amd was nice knowing ya


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15286398*
> This is terrible no PCI-E 3.0 support in FX... end of the road here. Ivy Bridge time.


That is a hard kick to the guts,

In a years time, PCI-e 3.0 will be the norm and I imagine the next gen GPUs will love the breathing room.

Its like buying a car that has tires that can't be replaced.


----------



## Vrait

Bulldozer was merely a setback!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15286234*
> I was reading the discussions earlier, but I coudln't post, and this kept popping into my head. It's still relevant, I feel, in a purely nostalgic sense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fr0sty is a wise
> 
> (couldn't find the original quote)


i might be wise .. but i did purchase a bd setup :O


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vrait;15286490*
> Bulldozer was merely a setback!


I certainly hope so. I'm always eager to jump ship back to AMD, but until they can produce competitive chips. intel 4 lyfe yo


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15286504*
> i might be wise .. but i did purchase a bd setup :O


Show us your failed attempts at getting beyond 10 seconds in SuperPi


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15286519*
> Show us your failed attempts at getting beyond 10 seconds in SuperPi


I don't believe Frosty will give a rats ass about achieving any particular sPi time


----------



## catharsis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;15285897*
> *Cough*
> 
> The design is modular, so it's easy to change things. I hardly call that a fail.


Honestly how "modular" is it. Sounds to me like more of AMD's smoke and mirrors. If they can shorten the pipelines then they'd have a chance. I don't know that much about chip engineering but I'd imagine it's quite hard to un ---- bulldozer.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catharsis;15286536*
> Honestly how "modular" is it. Sounds to me like more of AMD's smoke and mirrors. If they can shorten the pipelines then they'd have a chance. I don't know that much about chip engineering but I'd imagine it's quite hard to un ---- bulldozer.


looking at the die shot, its not like swapping out spark plugs, more like a engine swap. But if you left the design open, it should be all tooth pulling.


----------



## daman246

ive seen a youtube video where BD score 19sec for SPi at 4.8ghz where my 955 at 4,4ghz scores 14secs *** is this?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daman246;15286574*
> ive seen a youtube video where BD score 19sec for SPi at 4.8ghz where my 955 at 4,4ghz scores 14secs *** is this?


IPC increased and that is why it takes longer!!









Wait I might have messed up...


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15286580*
> IPC increased and that is why it takes longer!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait I might have messed up...


Until someone can explain why fx4100 is flatly outperforming in a big way all previous CPU's in solidworks rendering,, I reserve my judgment.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daman246;15286574*
> ive seen a youtube video where BD score 19sec for SPi at 4.8ghz where my 955 at 4,4ghz scores 14secs *** is this?


using an instruction set that AMD doesn't fully support, and an app that only uses one core, something BD isn't designed for.


----------



## Lampen

Well since they closed the other thread for 30 minutes I've decided to come over here and see what's going on. JF been around much?


----------



## daman246

i went over to amd site forums and theyre also bashing AMd for there Crappy BD CPu


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15286642*
> using an instruction set that AMD doesn't fully support, and an app that only uses one core, something BD isn't designed for.


When we look at die shots, it looks like a 4 core CPU, I think AMD would've had much more success using 4 cores with FULL resources, vs creating 2 mini weaker cores. What do I know though?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;15286648*
> Well since they closed the other thread for 30 minutes I've decided to come over here and see what's going on. JF been around much?


Doubt JF-AMD will post in this thread again, we should probably create a new thread.

So long as Jagged_Steel doesn't follow you, enjoy your stay.


----------



## 996gt2




----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15286531*
> I don't believe Frosty will give a rats ass about achieving any particular sPi time


exactly


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15286712*
> exactly


what is your every day use?


----------



## Nocturin

popped in an out. staying out of the line of fire.

giggity giggity


----------



## AMDrocks

Still, We get no post from JF-AMD or even a comment from AMD itself about poor performance from bulldozer.


----------



## swindle

Read this,

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/6/24/amd-insiders-speak-out-bapco-exit-is-an-excuse-for-poor-bulldozer-performance.aspx?pageid=0


----------



## iCrap

So the HW Rep isn't even answering now? lol....


----------



## 996gt2




----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15286726*
> what is your every day use?


light gaming and desktop use


----------



## CerealKillah

Geez, I wonder why the AMD rep hasn't posted anything?

I can't be all the personal insults and "hilarious" photoshop work in this thread.


----------



## daman246

wow i think Intel is finaly gonna get What they always Wished a Monopoly lol The only CPu Manucfactures Intel Great


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15286855*
> Geez, I wonder why the AMD rep hasn't posted anything?
> 
> I can't be all the personal insults and "hilarious" photoshop work in this thread.


I wish I could contact him. I wish to ask some some actual questions about the BD chip. I wish people would have kept it more civilized in this thread that he started. It would have been nice to have some one with some inside info to turn to in this situation. However seeing as how most of the internet has turned in to a pack of rabid wolves I wouldn't want to post/release anything if i worked for AMD. no matter what he says people will crucify him for it.


----------



## djriful

Screenshot in before they remove the BS claim...

What competitor is AMD speaking of? I took a good laugh. I'm sorry AMD. This bad as we all knew.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15286895*
> I wish I could contact him. I wish to ask some some actual questions about the BD chip. I wish people would have kept it more civilized in this thread that he started. It would have been nice to have some one with some inside info to turn to in this situation. However seeing as how most of the internet has turned in to a pack of rabid wolves I wouldn't want to post/release anything if i worked for AMD. no matter what he says people will crucify him for it.


he would probably get trolled to hell because OCN fails at logic for some reason today.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15286930*
> Screenshot in before they remove the BS claim...
> 
> What competitor is AMD speaking of? I took a good laugh. I'm sorry AMD. This bad as we all knew.


anything intel makes is a competitor. i7 920 included.


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15286895*
> I wish I could contact him. I wish to ask some some actual questions about the BD chip. I wish people would have kept it more civilized in this thread that he started. It would have been nice to have some one with some inside info to turn to in this situation. However seeing as how most of the internet has turned in to a pack of rabid wolves I wouldn't want to post/release anything if i worked for AMD. no matter what he says people will crucify him for it.


I'll wait a week before I commit to buying bulldozer. If nothing has improved from what I've been seeing today then I am going to jump ship and get a nice shiny Intel processor.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15286755*
> Still, We get no post from JF-AMD or even a comment from AMD itself about poor performance from bulldozer.


I posted this a couple hours ago, which is probably a few hundred posts ago.

JF-AMD posted a Blog today, and AMD released a Press Release.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz;15284801*
> Has amd announced anything on why the performance is so bad?
> 
> I'm really hoping something is wrong...


Look like JF-AMD is still active, he posted a blog today.
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/10/12/it%E2%80%99s-a-dry-heat/

AMD has posted a Press Release:
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsroom/Pages/newsroom.aspx
Quote:


> *Unlock Your Record Setting AMD FX Series Processor Today*
> 
> October 12, 2011 -- With the first eight-core desktop processor, enthusiasts and overclockers get an amazing PC experience at unheard of prices
> 
> AMD (NYSE: AMD) today unleashed the AMD FX family of CPUs, delivering a fully unlocked and customizable experience for desktop PC users. The AMD FX series of desktop CPUs includes the first-ever eight-core desktop processor, enabling extreme multi-display gaming, mega-tasking and HD content creation for PC and digital enthusiasts - all for less than $245 (suggested U.S. retail price). This marks the first retail availability of processors that use AMD's new multi-core architecture (codenamed "Bulldozer"), which is included in AMD's upcoming server CPU (codenamed "Interlagos") and the next-generation of AMD Accelerated Processing Units.
> 
> "AMD FX CPUs are back with a vengeance, as validated by the recent feat of setting a Guinness World Records® title for 'Highest Frequency of a Computer Processor,'" said Chris Cloran, corporate vice president and general manager, Client Group at AMD. "While overclockers will certainly enjoy the frequencies the AMD FX processors can achieve, PC enthusiasts and HD media aficionados will appreciate the remarkable experience that AMD FX processors can provide as part of a balanced, affordable desktop system."
> 
> All AMD FX CPUs offer completely unlocked processor clock multipliers for easier overclocking, paving the way for PC enthusiasts to enjoy higher CPU speeds and related performance gains. Additionally, these processors use AMD Turbo Core Technology to dynamically optimize performance across CPU cores enabling maximum performance for intense workloads.
> 
> Without spending a small fortune, users can combine an AMD FX CPU with an AMD 9-series chipset motherboard and AMD Radeon™ HD 6000 series graphics cards to create the AMD "Scorpius" platform for an astounding gaming and HD entertainment experience. As part of the "Scorpius" platform, AMD FX CPUs also support AMD CrossFireX™ technology, which allows the combination of multiple graphics cards in a PC for stunning visual experiences, and AMD Eyefinity technology support for super resolution on up to six monitors.1 With AMD CatalystControl Center™ / AMD VISION Engine Control Center, users can get regular updates to help improve system performance and stability, and to add new software enhancements.


My opinion, fire your copywriters, hire more engineers.


----------



## CerealKillah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15286895*
> I wish I could contact him. I wish to ask some some actual questions about the BD chip. I wish people would have kept it more civilized in this thread that he started. It would have been nice to have some one with some inside info to turn to in this situation. However seeing as how most of the internet has turned in to a pack of rabid wolves I wouldn't want to post/release anything if i worked for AMD. no matter what he says people will crucify him for it.


Yep, for some reason Bulldozer has brought out the worst in both Intel and AMD "fanatics".


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15286764*
> Read this,
> 
> http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/6/24/amd-insiders-speak-out-bapco-exit-is-an-excuse-for-poor-bulldozer-performance.aspx?pageid=0


Not even done reading it, very interesting however... thanks for posting.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15286930*
> Screenshot in before they remove the BS claim...
> 
> What competitor is AMD speaking of? I took a good laugh. I'm sorry AMD. This bad as we all knew.


Via? ARM?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Guys the real reviews are coming out tonight, AMD was just trolling us.










Bulldozer goes to 11, duh.


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK;15287018*
> Not even done reading it, very interesting however... thanks for posting.


Puts AMD management in some bad light...


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287032*
> Guys the real reviews are coming out tonight, AMD was just trolling us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulldozer goes to 11, duh.


lol. I can see it now AMD has pulled the biggest prank on the nerd population ever lol. kidding


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15286895*
> I wish I could contact him. I wish to ask some some actual questions about the BD chip. I wish people would have kept it more civilized in this thread that he started. It would have been nice to have some one with some inside info to turn to in this situation. However seeing as how most of the internet has turned in to a pack of rabid wolves I wouldn't want to post/release anything if i worked for AMD. no matter what he says people will crucify him for it.


I agree, but I am disappointed, its like having your favorite team lose the championship at the last minute, they are still your team but disappointment is what is the current feeling. I think we would all feel much better if it were slightly cheaper at launch too. Its not far from a 2600K and more than a 2500k. We are comparing to a mature sandy bridge platform though. With BD there are still real questions to be asked, my questions are on the memory side of things. I really wish I had one to play with, but to gamble on it with my own money right now is uneasy. I want to see what the community gets out of it rather than journalist/enthusiast too as we will be the ones fine tuning it rather than them on their tight schedules.

It would have been nice if there was more transparency durring the last few months from amd but they are trying to run a business.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CerealKillah;15286855*
> Geez, I wonder why the AMD rep hasn't posted anything?
> 
> I can't be all the personal insults and "hilarious" photoshop work in this thread.


Maybe he himself is wondering what the **** is going on.


----------



## Seronx

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwTXoswO0bI[/ame]

Dat belt buckle


----------



## raisethe3

Wait...what?!

Then how come every other review site (HardOCP, Tom's etc) already indicated bad already? Have they evaluated an ES chip thus, why benchmarks were bad? They didn't get the final production?

I am confused on who to trust here.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287032*
> Guys the real reviews are coming out tonight, AMD was just trolling us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulldozer goes to 11, duh.


----------



## NateN34

I love how people defend BD and say it is still great for everday and web use.

Yeah, don't think I want to rack up my power bill from just browsing the web..


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15287098*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwTXoswO0bI


OMG....after he said PRO-cessor for the 5th time I had to turn it off...i think my brain and ears are bleeding...


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;15287136*
> OMG....after he said PRO-cessor for the 5th time I had to turn it off...i think my brain and ears are bleeding...


That guy is a huge tool.

He makes horrible videos.

He does a terrible job, of his job.

If I was his boss, I would have fired him.

I tried so so very hard to watch his review on my monitor, but my god... He said "3D" about 9000 times. It was terrible.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15287101*
> I love how people defend BD and say it is still great for everday and web use.
> 
> Yeah, don't think I want to rack up my power bill from just browsing the web..


Actually power consumption in idle/light load conditions is quite normal. If you dont oc


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15287156*
> That guy is a huge tool.
> 
> He makes horrible videos.
> 
> He does a terrible job, of his job.
> 
> If I was his boss, I would have fired him.
> 
> I tried so so very hard to watch his review on my monitor, but my god... He said "3D" about 9000 times. It was terrible.


Y u gotta hate Linus.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15286764*
> Read this,
> 
> http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/6/24/amd-insiders-speak-out-bapco-exit-is-an-excuse-for-poor-bulldozer-performance.aspx?pageid=0


I think majority of the people here skip or never end up reading till the end.

First, they skip the articles because they saw the articles dated in June 2011. Old stories but the second page is the updated one.

I'm going to quote it out for lazy readers:
Quote:


> "What We Want from AMD"
> As the article draws to a close, we aren't going to comment on the following statement made by yet another source:
> "There are more people like me at AMD that want to go and fight from an engineering perspective in the same spirit of the old Jerry Sanders days. We don't want an AMD that is going off and writing blogs about transparency and fluff, while engineers are frustrated. Engineers are not getting the resources they need, we're not getting the time and the investment we to build and optimize new architectures.
> 
> Instead, they feed marketing fluff and kool-aid, and all these self-centered blogs - instead of focusing on doing what we know how to do best. Fight, survive and challenge against all odds.
> 
> Thankfully, we'll have a new CEO soon and hopefully all this strategy nonsense will be out the door."
> 
> A Message to the new CEO
> Furthermore, this is a personalized message to AMD's new CEO:
> "Many of our best engineers are leaving to join companies like Apple, Freescale, Qualcomm, Samsung even NVIDIA and Intel - people that thought they would never work for another company.
> 
> Look at AMD's history - how we beat Intel Pentium III, which was based on one of the best CPU architectures of all time - the Pentium Pro - and we beat the them with the K7 (original Athlon). Look at K8, 64-bit innovation and the integrated memory controller. Look at how ATI came back from the brink and beat by NVIDIA soundly with R300 and took performance leadership across the board.
> 
> We created the netbook in OLPC project with Nicholas Negroponte when everybody was laughing at him and then gave the whole market to Intel. We were shipping millions of graphics chips for cellphones and were in TVs long before today's leaders. We know how to win."


CEO is missing in action, AMD company was nearly falling apart due to all main engineer are leaving for other companies.


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;15287165*
> Actually power consumption in idle/light load conditions is quite normal. If you dont oc


Annnnnnnnnd once again, the whole point, half of the marketing, the idea of "*Unlocked*", was to overclock.

These where aimed at you, at me, at everyone and anyone from OCN and all these sites with all these overclocking enthusiasts.

I get 45-50deg on my 955 @ 4.4GHz under 100% load, and so far, benchmarks show me keeping up. There is no positive spin. Not a one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15287192*
> I think majority of the people here skip or never end up reading till the end.


Ain't that the truth.

A breakdown for noobs...
Quote:


> Our source lays blame on former and present AMD leaders like Hector Jesus Ruiz, Derrick "Dirk" Meyer, Nigel Dessau and Patrick "Pat" Moorhead. *According to the source, in one meeting with marketing and engineering teams present Nigel allegedly stated "how do we get rid of SYSmark."* The gathered staff was surprised since the rationale was how do you go and tell the governments and large enterprises in Europe, Asia and North America that SYSmark doesn't matter. The valid question is"*How can AMD tell the world governments and large enterprises that the tender for tens of thousands of computers needed to have SYSmark off the list, when we were one of the companies that lobbied for that benchmark to be in there in the beginning.*"


Quote:


> All that time, *AMD marketing and sales team were continuously pushing the engineers to focus on tactics to discredit benchmarks rather than creating new silicon to win*. One of examples was government and large enterprise contracts where MobileMark is used. The source argues that "we could not compete with Kite Refresh in '07, Puma and Congo in '08... neither could we compete with Tigris in '09 and we're still challenged with Nile and Danube."


Quote:


> While Intel struggled with NetBurst architecture and went on to create Yonah, a 32-bit architecture that was the foundation for Conroe/Merom/Woodcrest, while NVIDIA fall to their knees with NV30 i.e. GeForce FX and went to out-innovate the competition by creating the first GPGPU chip, the G80 (also known as NV50) - *"AMD started to spend resources on how they could skew benchmarks in their favor."*


Quote:


> This emptied the coffers and engineering team was left without resources to go and fight against the rising Intel threat. AMD's reaction after the departure of Henri Richard was appointing Nigel Dessau, seasoned executive with IBM and SUN Microsystems behind him. *Nigel was faced with an impossible task of competing against Intel with blanks, and the only choice left was to deploy the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt i.e. FUD strategy patented by his previous company, centennial Big Blue*. *A shift occurred and all engineers were left was not making a discussion that would go along the lines of "ok, how do we make our architecture better?", "how do we work to regain performance leadership?". According to one of our highly positioned sources, the culture switched to "how do we discredit benchmarks and skew the numbers?"*


----------



## GameBoy

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275873-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%284%29-!exclusive!-Excuse-for-1-Threaded-Perf.

Interesting benchmarks a user at XS did. I wonder how it would perform at 5Ghz with one core disabled in each Module (so 4 modules and 4 cores instead of 2 modules and 4 cores).


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15287036*
> Puts AMD management in some bad light...


Yep, it sure does, and like most everything I take it with a grain of salt. I mean, things like Wikipedia are surely correct and contain only the facts, right?









But really - it's of no matter in reality because this will only be remembered by a few and for only a short period of time. In reality, as time passes it's really not relevant.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34;15287101*
> I love how people defend BD and say it is still great for everday and web use.
> 
> Yeah, don't think I want to rack up my power bill from just browsing the web..


Actually, BD is surprisingly power efficient when not under load. CnQ does a better job I guess.


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK;15287256*
> Yep, it sure does, and like most everything I take it with a grain of salt. I mean, things like Wikipedia are surely correct and contain only the facts, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But really - it's of no matter in reality because this will only be remembered by a few and for only a short period of time. In reality, as time passes it's really not relevant.


Its not from Wiki.

Its from AMD employees who are very aggravated at the situation.

This will live in PC history, just as the original Phenom debacle has.


----------



## giver660

Jesus Christ, thank the heavenly Father that I spent my money elsewhere whilst waiting. The answers coming from the empty bottle of brandy sitting before me declare that bulldozer has been justly redesignated as "faildozer".

If the shoe were on the other foot, meaning of course that if I were a Intel stock-holder, I'd be giddy with anticipation of the untold millions I'd be making as AMD ungracefully bows out of the CPU market and sells off all valuable assets.

Better luck in the GPU business, *******s.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15287194*
> Annnnnnnnnd once again, the whole point, half of the marketing, the idea of "*Unlocked*", was to overclock.
> 
> These where aimed at you, at me, at everyone and anyone from OCN and all these sites with all these overclocking enthusiasts.
> 
> I get 45-50deg on my 955 @ 4.4GHz under 100% load, and so far, benchmarks show me keeping up. There is no positive spin. Not a one.
> 
> Ain't that the truth.
> 
> A breakdown for noobs...


*And looks here, all the new hiring info up to dated:*

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/AMD-Salaries-E15.htm


----------



## Schmuckley

comments are closed @ the bulldozer blog on amd :







:


----------



## Schmuckley

however..i did just put a FailDozer pic on their facebook wall


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;15287312*
> however..i did just put a FailDozer pic on their facebook wall


Why? its this kind of child like behavior that the entire internet could do with out......

EDIT: to clarify, if stupid crap like that wasn't being posted maybe their BD thread wouldnt have been closed....get over it we know how it turned out, show some sportsmanship for Christ sake.


----------



## GameBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;15287312*
> however..i did just put a FailDozer pic on their facebook wall


I'm sure you're very proud of that.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15287295*
> Its not from Wiki.
> 
> Its from AMD employees who are very aggravated at the situation.
> 
> This will live in PC history, just as the original Phenom debacle has.


Oh no, you misunderstand, I realize it's not from Wiki. What I'm saying is, quoting unnamed sources, the horrible grammar and punctuation, spelling errors that should be obvious to an American 6th grader, etc.

I'm just saying that like most things you read, you can't believe it all. I don't there may be some truth to it, but it's oddly vague in many ways for obvious reasons and yet _extremely identifying on other levels_.


----------



## Seronx

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Q8rhnbvTc[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQWWbr6qKM0[/ame]


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;15287215*
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275873-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%284%29-!exclusive!-Excuse-for-1-Threaded-Perf.
> 
> Interesting benchmarks a user at XS did. I wonder how it would perform at 5Ghz with one core disabled in each Module (so 4 modules and 4 cores instead of 2 modules and 4 cores).


Hmmm, thats even more interesting.


----------



## Fierce Mullet

OK, I have a question since I've heard the term "server side" a lot recently.

If Interlagos was reported as shipping a few weeks ago, have then been benched anywhere?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fierce Mullet;15287416*
> OK, I have a question since I've heard the term "server side" a lot recently.
> 
> If Interlagos was reported as shipping a few weeks ago, have then been benched anywhere?


Loses to Westmere in most workloads and Sandy Bridge-E is just around the corner


----------



## Derp

That second video is epic.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15287381*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Q8rhnbvTc
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQWWbr6qKM0


the first vid was ok....but the second video still has me crying with laughter!!! so funny!!


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15287426*
> Loses to Westmere in most workloads and Sandy Bridge-E is just around the corner


Link ?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I left a comment, but lol... Why the i7-2600? You know it can't OC past 4GHz right?


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287481*
> I left a comment, but lol... Why the i7-2600? You know it can't OC past 4GHz right?


i7 2600 because unlike Bulldozer it doesn't need to be clocked at 5+GHz to get good game performance!

Other than that it was eBay
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287445*
> Link ?


I rather not


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Send it back


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287511*
> Send it back


No worries I got an i3 2090 @ 2.5GHz still out performing Bulldozer


----------



## daman246

Quote:


> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...-Threaded-Perf.
> 
> Interesting benchmarks a user at XS did. I wonder how it would perform at 5Ghz with one core disabled in each Module (so 4 modules and 4 cores instead of 2 modules and 4 cores).


That review might actualy inspire ppl to actualy buy the BD if using 4modules and 4threads actualy makes performance better Clock for clock than using 8 and 8 we finaly see some light to the mess that AMD has created


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daman246;15287534*
> That review might actualy inspire ppl to actualy buy the BD if using 4modules and 4threads actualy makes performance better Clock for clock than using 8 and 8 we finaly see some light to the mess that AMD has created


i thought we went over it a few times in this thread that windows doesn't know how to schedule tasks properly for BD yet?


----------



## 2010rig

I thought the saving grace for these chips would be [email protected]

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/1139876-looking-bulldozer-f-h-performance-2.html#post15286005

I was wrong.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15287564*
> i thought we went over it a few times in this thread that windows doesn't know how to schedule tasks properly for BD yet?


That's why i haven't decided yet, I am waiting to see if any new revisions come out.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15287618*
> That's why i haven't decided yet, I am waiting to see if any new revisions come out.


To late and the wait is to long....at least SB-E should come out next month


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15287564*
> i thought we went over it a few times in this thread that windows doesn't know how to schedule tasks properly for BD yet?


If you ask me, Windows couldn't schedule wiping its but if it took a dump. But basically, theres a number of issues.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287648*
> If you ask me, Windows couldn't schedule wiping its but if it took a dump. But basically, theres a number of issues.


Well if we asked you, last week bulldozer was going to be amazing, so we probably won't ask you.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GameBoy;15287215*
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275873-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%284%29-!exclusive!-Excuse-for-1-Threaded-Perf.
> 
> Interesting benchmarks a user at XS did. I wonder how it would perform at 5Ghz with one core disabled in each Module (so 4 modules and 4 cores instead of 2 modules and 4 cores).


That has me contemplating an upgrade again. Thanks.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Nice, $280 for 3/5ths the performance of a $180 chip.


----------



## reflex99

or $220 for +-100% of the performance of a $220 chip


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15287639*
> To late and the wait is to long....at least SB-E should come out next month


True, But i don't want to go Intel and then AMD happened to have a minor bug with the CPU that they fixed and true performance was unleashed and it is better than SB, Just a scenario though.









SB-E is way too expensive.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287706*
> Well if we asked you, last week bulldozer was going to be amazing, so we probably won't ask you.












And if we asked him if Bulldozer was ever delayed, his answer is it never was.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15287769*
> True, But i don't want to go Intel and then AMD happened to have a minor bug with the CPU that they fixed and true performance was unleashed and it is better than SB, Just a scenario though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SB-E is way too expensive.


2600K is full of win though. $279 if you're near a Microcenter.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287706*
> Well if we asked you, last week bulldozer was going to be amazing, so we probably won't ask you.


qft


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15287769*
> True, But i don't want to go Intel and then AMD happened to have a minor bug with the CPU that they fixed and true performance was unleashed and it is better than SB, Just a scenario though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SB-E is way too expensive.


The L1 cache is pretty messed up, hopefully we will see a bit of improvement if they can get it worked out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15287770*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if we asked him if Bulldozer was ever delayed, his answer is it never was.


it technically never was because they never set a release date


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15287706*
> Well if we asked you, last week bulldozer was going to be amazing, so we probably won't ask you.


I never implied it being in either direction. Go read through my posts if you like. I only run Windblowz, becuase I have need of productivity apps that aren't available on alternate OS platforms. which BTW really sucks.


----------



## ViralRazor

Bulldozer's out. Its not as good as expected. Stop making excuses for it fanboy. Thank god I didn't wait for it in July.

Though the FX 8120 might be a good buy for anyone who gets free or reduced power bills!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287855*
> AMD letter head, public announcements. You know. can I google fx8150 release date and confirm this through a official source ?
> 
> do you have these crucial piece of evidence. If so please produce it.


I would love to, but I've done like 100 times in this thread, and some people like yourself are still in denial.

If it helps you sleep cozy at night, Bulldozer is right on time, and performing just how AMD hyped it to be.

Here, check out their press release, and see how accurate it is compared to the real world performance we are seeing today.
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsroom/Pages/newsroom.aspx

Check out their marketing of Bulldozer, accurate?
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/amdfx/Pages/amdfx.aspx?&lid=hero_image

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15273307*
> I doubt that would happen soon, would like to see him commenting on those:
> 
> Tom's Hardware--
> So, let's say someone puts Core i5-2500K and FX-8150 in front of you. The Core i5 costs $220 bucks, and the FX runs $245. Which one do you buy?
> If it's me, I'm going with the Core i5. I gave the -2500K a Tom's Hardware Recommended Buy award back in January, and I stick by that recommendation almost a year later.
> 
> AnandTech--
> So what do you do if you're buying today? If you have an existing high-end Phenom II system, particularly an X4 970 or above or an X6 of any sort, I honestly don't see much of a reason to upgrade. You're likely better off waiting for the next (and final) iteration of the AM3+ lineup if you want to stick with your current platform. If you're considering buying new, I feel like the 2500K is a better overall part.
> 
> Guru3D--
> Concluding then. The reality remains that for me personally I would have preferred a faster per core performing AMD quad-core processor rather then an eight-core processor with just 'nice' per core performance. Who knows, for you, that just might not be the case. It's going to be interesting to see what you as an end-user will prefer. Overall though, the AMD FX 8150 is a processor we can recommend for the upper segment of mid-range computers at best.
> 
> [H]--
> But if you asked me if I will be putting an AMD FX in my next personal system I would probably have to tell you, "No." If I had to build a system for myself tonight, it would have a Intel Core i7-2600K in it. I can't point to the AMD FX-8150 or FX-8120 being a bad choice, but I just do not think either of those is the best choice.
> 
> Bjorn3d--
> Despite the nice specifications, there are some considerations we must take into account. Even though we say "eight cores", and AMD uses that term also, the Bulldozer architecture doesn't actually have eight true cores. The Bulldozer module's resource sharing of execution and front-end units means the FX chip will be weak in several ares of computing. Despite having the Turbo speed of 4.2GHz, the CPU falls very short in single-threaded (or even lightly-threaded) processes, even below the old Phenom II CPU's at lower clockspeed. We saw an example of this in some games, and in benchmarks like AIDA64, where the low floating point performance of the FX CPU resulted in performance lower than almost any other CPU.
> 
> HardwareCanucks--
> AMD are quick to boast that Zambezi has two 2 additional cores, a huge chunk of cache, and a lot more megahertz than the competition, but at the moment it doesn't seem like they have been able to squeeze much extra performance from all those bits and bobbles. As it stands, in most instances, AMD are lagging behind Intel when it comes to performance per dollar, performance per watt and performance per square millimeter of die space.
> 
> Hexus--
> 3/5
> 
> VR-Zone--
> 6.5/10
> 
> Edited for spacing.


----------



## StraightSixZ

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275869-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%281%29-Gaming

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275871-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%282%29-Synthetic-benchmarks

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275872-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%283%29-Multi-media-benchmarks

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?275873-AMD-FX-quot-Bulldozer-quot-Review-%284%29-!exclusive!-Excuse-for-1-Threaded-Perf.

DGlee's review


----------



## 2010rig

I've produced plenty of quotes.









Search this thread for *Product Schedules*, user name 2010rig.
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-post15261937.html?highlight=Product+Schedules#post15261937


----------



## Disturbed117

Damn people its just a stupid processor, its not like the end of the world here.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287928*
> -Deleted-.


Your sig bothers me. What good are the 2 equal sized toilets, if they're potty trainers?

I'll take 1, real man's toilet.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15287979*
> Your sig bothers me. What good are the 2 equal sized toilets, if they're potty trainers?
> 
> I'll take 1, real man's toilet.


I never said what size the toilets were now did I ? That part was largely unknown. I am going to keep the sig though. Its funny watching a bunch of justin bieber wannabe, Intel fans get all butt hurt over it.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287994*
> justin bieber wannabe, Intel fans get all butt hurt over it.


Lol how random is that? How does justin bieber relate?


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15287764*
> or $220 for +-100% of the performance of a $220 chip


Or $220 for double the power draw of the $180 chip, $220 at newegg, or $150 on sale at MC.

Only time FX matches an overclocked i5 is under phase or better, and it's only when all eight cores are used. Anything using less than eight cores it gets stomped.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15287994*
> I never said what size the toilets were now did I ? That part was largely unknown. I am going to keep the sig though. Its funny watching a bunch of justin bieber wannabe, Intel fans get all butt hurt over it.


It's all amusing. I think you are one of the true few butthurt ones


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15287940*
> I've produced plenty of quotes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search this thread for *Product Schedules*, user name 2010rig.
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-post15261937.html?highlight=Product+Schedules#post15261937


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=489pO9q8guA[/ame]

this sums you up


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15288019*
> It's all amusing. I think you are one of the true few butthurt ones


Not really lol. My I5 and my thuban are humming along just fine. this is more academic then anything.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15288037*
> Not really lol. My I5 and my thuban are humming along just fine. this is more academic then anything.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73;15288046*


of what ? my I5 and Thuban rig ?

sure, i'll post up pics tommorow. Right now, its time to get some sleep.

Heres a screen shot of the thuban running.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;15287957*
> Damn people its just a stupid processor, its not like the end of the world here.


Probably to some who foresee dec 24 2012 end of the world who wants to experiences the monster CPU.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roll Cam Tide

Bulldozer... fail...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roll Cam Tide;15288082*


I've been wondering how to make this my avatar.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15288070*
> Probably to some who foresee dec 24 2012 end of the world who wants to experiences the monster CPU.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If thats really the end of the world, the last thing any male should be doing is experiencing a cpu.


----------



## tw33k

For other Aussies, a sales rep from PC Case Gear told me today that "AMD Bulldozer processors are expected to arrive in Australia sometime in October/November, and we have not received an accurate ETA as of yet. Once we do, we will update the website and have the CPUs open for pre-orders"

If I can get an 8150 for ~$200 I'll grab it.


----------



## Jinny1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k;15288107*
> For other Aussies, a sales rep from PC Case Gear told me today that "AMD Bulldozer processors are expected to arrive in Australia sometime in October/November, and we have not received an accurate ETA as of yet. Once we do, we will update the website and have the CPUs open for pre-orders"
> 
> If I can get an 8150 for ~$200 I'll grab it.


ROFL dude keep dreaming.

Centrecom has them listed for $310+


----------



## Seronx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollack's_Rule

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_Law

Guess they don't apply to AMD Bulldozer


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k;15288107*
> For other Aussies, a sales rep from PC Case Gear told me today that "AMD Bulldozer processors are expected to arrive in Australia sometime in October/November, and we have not received an accurate ETA as of yet. Once we do, we will update the website and have the CPUs open for pre-orders"
> 
> If I can get an 8150 for ~$200 I'll grab it.


Hehe they answered my question ^^

Though you'll probably only get a 6100 for $200.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daman246;15287534*
> That review might actualy inspire ppl to actualy buy the BD if using 4modules and 4threads actualy makes performance better Clock for clock than using 8 and 8 we finaly see some light to the mess that AMD has created


ill test it for myself in some programs ... maybe even superpi

and other stuff ... with turbo on .. and turbo off ...


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;15288173*
> Hehe they answered my question ^^
> 
> Though you'll probably only get a 6100 for $200.


I don't know. With all the bad reviews I can't see it being too expensive


----------



## Jared2608

I found prices for the FX 8150 here...R2918.00!
The FX 8120 is supposedly going for R2790.00!
The Intel Core i5 2500K retails at the moment for around R2030.00, but you can get it cheaper if you look around!

I was interested to see how the AMD chips would be priced here, maybe they'll drop as availibility increases, but it's currently priced way out of the market!


----------



## djriful

http://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?t=1140632

After i read that. I see no future in AMD and this is scaring me. Either I'll sell out all the AMD parts for Intel & Nvidia. Yup... back to my old brand choices.

What you guys here now with phenom ii and hd6000 series maybe the last best performing hardwares. Or maybe hd7000

I hope hd7000 die shrink wont be turn out like bulldozer.

If AMD get their internal management straight up. Change back the way it was planned. They could have been king of the hill instead of failing into the ditch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seronx

I guess Intel is the only way to go

They have long dropped their act and obviously are going after the enthusiast market as best as they can we the enthusiast make up 40% of their Desktop Market(those who own Intel, I was in it with my Pentium 4 EE but lul!)


----------



## Warmonger

Here is the official launch prices if anyone is wondering.

FX-8150 - $259.99
FX-8120 - $219.99
FX-6100 - $189.99

From benchmarks that were immediately posted after launch, it seems the big dog FX-8150 only runs on par to the i5-2500k in which is $50 cheaper and still outperforms it.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warmonger;15288417*
> Here is the official launch prices if anyone is wondering.
> 
> FX-8150 - $259.99
> FX-8120 - $219.99
> FX-6100 - $189.99
> 
> From benchmarks that were immediately posted after launch, it seems the big dog FX-8150 only runs on par to the i5-2500k in which the i5-2500k still outperforms it.


Yeah, We know, It has been repeated 50 times today.


----------



## crUk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roll Cam Tide;15288082*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulldozer... fail...


This literally made me roll on the floor laughing. Bad thing I was alone, I'm sure I looked like I was crazy!
Thats a win. Oh wait, that's a fail.
EPIC FAIL!


----------



## Warmonger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15288435*
> Yeah, We know, It has been repeated 50 times today.


Past few pages were nothing but people asking.


----------



## Seronx

AMDZone is in denial again

"We don't know if Bulldozer actually fails or not."


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15288372*
> I guess Intel is the only way to go
> 
> They have long dropped their act and obviously are going after the enthusiast market as best as they can we the enthusiast make up 40% of their Desktop Market(those who own Intel, I was in it with my Pentium 4 EE but lul!)


They also got the mainstream market locked up.

According to JF-AMD, the enthusiast market accounts for 6% of sales, but he never did provide proof of where he got that number from.

I don't see that being accurate, 'cuz if it was, would Intel spend so much on bringing out 1366, or LGA2011, for a mere 6% of the market?


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15288469*
> They also got the mainstream market locked up.
> 
> According to JF-AMD, the enthusiast market accounts for 6% of sales, but he never did provide proof of where he got that number from.
> 
> I don't see that being accurate, 'cuz if it was, would Intel spend so much on bringing out 1366, or LGA2011, for a mere 6% of the market?


I thought he said 9? I can't really remember, he was probably referring to AMDs sales which would make sense because most enthusiast go for the best bang for the buck. 6-10% Regardless they just lost it IMO


----------



## ToxicAdam

Explain yourself AMD?!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToxicAdam;15288493*
> Explain yourself AMD?!


He did his math wrong peak is 8(ALU+MEM) instructions per module but no point arguing


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15284103*
> I think there are a few people here "Drinking the cool-aid".
> 
> What if this, what if that, what if later, what if bios...
> 
> What if it just sucks?


So? People will try and find an answer to the problems. That's what this thread is about (IMO) - Bulldozer and it's problems. And if it sucks, then it sucks - but jumping on people trying to find out what's wrong just because you have made up your mind is just more of "haha bulldozer sucks".

If there are benchmarks that shows different aspect, even if most benches shows that it sucks, I'd say that it is intresting and should be discussed.


----------



## kevink82

People generally celebrate at others failure, just how life is...... some actual dicussion would be great then 20 pages of omg it sucks and the tiny bulldozer falling down the stairs i swear i saw that pic at least 30 times now.

Price point blows 8150 selling for more than 2600k here in malaysia.......


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15284103*
> I think there are a few people here "Drinking the cool-aid".
> 
> What if this, what if that, what if later, what if bios...
> 
> What if it just sucks?


Look at what happens when you put a FULL 8 core load on that FX 8150 overclocked. Go ahead...I'll give you some time to find the reviews, I remember them relatively well.

There's EXTREMELY (unusually so) high power draw, however the performance is right where it should be when under the proper load (between the two flagship Sandy Bridge chips). Bulldozer absolutely falls on its face (currently) with lighter loads (gaming and other single threaded and legacy apps). And again, the power draw is absolutely unrealistic. Yes, its a big hungry chip, but not as much as we've seen in the reviews. It just doesn't make any sense for it to be pulling nearly 600w at 4.6GHz, just running Prime. That just makes 0 sense at all.

Now, look at how in games...it compares with the Phenom II. The Phenom II is beating the FX 4 core. Again, something isn't adding up right.

You are correct, it could just absolutely suck. But there's far too many things that are way too far out of whack with these results that we're seeing. The results don't lie...yes it sucks right now (clearly). But the results are also showing us things that just don't make sense. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

This is why I'm sitting back, and I'm waiting to see what happens when real people get their hands on these chips, with the proper BIOS, and proper OS tweaks (MS HotFix that was supposedly released yesterday to fix a L1 cache bug).

If I'm correct (I may or may not be, I have no idea), then Bulldozer could just end up being a pretty decent performer for its price. If I'm wrong....well then Bulldozer sucks....and I could be wrong.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

So the Bulldozer blog is about brainstorming ideas as to why bulldozer after months of delays was released with bad bios, L1 cache problems, improper microcode, and a lack of Windows 8 in every box?

I never said anyone couldn't do those things, by all means, proceed.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15288610*
> So the Bulldozer blog is about brainstorming ideas as to why bulldozer after months of delays was released with bad bios, L1 cache problems, improper microcode, and a lack of Windows 8 in every box?
> 
> I never said anyone couldn't do those things, by all means, proceed.


We shall fix what AMD couldn't!!! and reverse engineer it!!! and make huge profit!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWm9NICwKaI[/ame]


----------



## robbo2

Deeply disappointed with the folding results gappo showed us. It can't even get close to the 6 core Phenoms. I'm struggling to believe any software or bios fix will make the chip a good buy


----------



## catharsis

Personally, I think continuing holding on hope that there's some magic fix for BD is hopeless. It's here, these are its results. I think people are just going through denial right now. No MS hotfix can be that great that suddenly bulldozer skyrockets to stardom. What we have here is a poorly designed chip. That's all it boils down to. Netburst 2.0.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15288610*
> So the Bulldozer blog is about brainstorming ideas as to why bulldozer after months of delays was released with bad bios, L1 cache problems, improper microcode, and a lack of Windows 8 in every box?
> 
> I never said anyone couldn't do those things, by all means, proceed.


Well to be fair, it's about that more than it is SB, SB-e, SB vs. Phenom II and IB. We are both guilty of discussing those subjects here.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15288479*
> I thought he said 9? I can't really remember, he was probably referring to AMDs sales which would make sense because most enthusiast go for the best bang for the buck. 6-10% Regardless they just lost it IMO


Actually, I was the one who said 9, because for a while he said the Enthusiast market was in the single digits. So I made a pie chart with us being 9% as the best case scenario. Later on he said it was 6%.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15288633*
> We shall fix what AMD couldn't!!! and reverse engineer it!!! and make huge profit!!!


benz cousin will be able to help us gain access to foundry equipment

and you seronx you're our main engineer ... fix what amd couldn't


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15288657*
> benz cousin will be able to help us gain access to foundry equipment
> 
> and you seronx you're our main engineer ... fix what amd couldn't


1 Front End
Bazajillion Cores
.25 FPUs
AVX-65,536bits

Ya, it will be the best CPU ever!


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15288641*
> Well to be fair, it's about that more than it is SB, SB-e, SB vs. Phenom II and IB. We are both guilty of discussing those subjects here.


Well yeah, the cats out of the bag now. Really the thread doesn't serve any purpose other than letting us all vent in one place. Thus far the mods have let us go in our discussions, we've kept it pretty clean compared to where it ventured off to pre-release.

I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm really disappointed in bulldozer.. Before I left AMD I was upset with them for the performance I was getting from my 1090T, however I had always planning to return to AMD. This is not what I wanted, this is so bad it makes me sad.


----------



## Damn_Smooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15288671*
> Well yeah, the cats out of the bag now. Really the thread doesn't serve any purpose other than letting us all vent in one place. Thus far the mods have let us go in our discussions, we've kept it pretty clean compared to where it ventured off to pre-release.
> 
> I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm really disappointed in bulldozer.. Before I left AMD I was upset with them for the performance I was getting from my 1090T, however I had always planning to return to AMD. This is not what I wanted, this is so bad it makes me sad.


You and me both man, I really wanted this to succeed. I'm still hoping against odds, and common sense, that some kind of fix will be issued.


----------



## Tatakai All

What sucks is being one of those suckers who bought into the hype of BD months ago. I have a nice CHV mobo that's awesome but is currently running on a 955. Seeing that upgrading to BD would be a waste of money and going with 1090T or 1100T would be a better buy just really eats me up. What sucks even more is that it was very stupid of me to buy a 990FX mobo before the real reviews came out. Heck OBR's review months ago was correct but at the time I cried foul play. I'd seriously like BD's performance to magically go up with Windows 8 or some new bios but I won't be sticking around for it to happen. I'm seriously wondering what Amd had been doing all these years with these chips? Maybe it was meant to be an all server and a client-gets-in-hind-quarters kind of chip, who knows. What I do know is that I waited like patiently for BD and now I'm jumping ship.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15288671*
> Well yeah, the cats out of the bag now. Really the thread doesn't serve any purpose other than letting us all vent in one place. Thus far the mods have let us go in our discussions, we've kept it pretty clean compared to where it ventured off to pre-release.
> 
> I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm really disappointed in bulldozer.. Before I left AMD I was upset with them for the performance I was getting from my 1090T, however I had always planning to return to AMD. This is not what I wanted, this is so bad it makes me sad.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damn_Smooth;15288686*
> You and me both man, I really wanted this to succeed. I'm still hoping against odds, and common sense, that some kind of fix will be issued.


It's starting to sink in at how S_i_y the situation is now.

Can Intel keep pushing the performance boundaries and risk becoming a Monopoly? I don't think so.

Will they continue to put out awesome Bang for Buck CPU's like Sandy Bridge?

We know Ivy Bridge is coming, but what about beyond that?

Quick, what's the quickest way we can raise $5 Billion and buy AMD?

1st thing I'm doing is firing their over hyping marketing department.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared;15288671*
> Well yeah, the cats out of the bag now. Really the thread doesn't serve any purpose other than letting us all vent in one place. Thus far the mods have let us go in our discussions, we've kept it pretty clean compared to where it ventured off to pre-release.
> 
> I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm really disappointed in bulldozer.. Before I left AMD I was upset with them for the performance I was getting from my 1090T, however I had always planning to return to AMD. This is not what I wanted, this is so bad it makes me sad.


That's exactly why the thread is still open, and why a few other threads on the issue are still open. To let you guys all vent about it. As long as things stay within the ToS, then we're all fine.









That's really all that we ask, is that things stay civil.


----------



## scotty453

Looks like many of the merchants aren't even buying them up, they bought enough to list them on their site (10.)

http://www.ebuyer.com/287681-amd-bulldozer-fx-8-8120-3-1ghz-socket-am3-8mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-fd8120frgubox
Click pre order button and you'll see, even amazon doesn't have many, imo no one really sees it as anything good...

Quote:


> AMD Bulldozer FX-8 8120 3.1Ghz Socket AM3+ 8MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor 287681 10 due in 15 to 17 day


----------



## StarDestroyer

I've had liver replacment for last for days
how can Pii x6 beat FX8 in that type of work even IF it was a 32mm die shrink

lyfc


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15288707*
> It's starting to sink in at how S_i_y the situation is now.
> 
> Can Intel keep pushing the performance boundaries and risk becoming a Monopoly? I don't think so.
> 
> Will they continue to put out awesome Bang for Buck CPU's like Sandy Bridge?
> 
> We know Ivy Bridge is coming, but what about beyond that?
> 
> Quick, what's the quickest way we can raise $5 Billion and buy AMD?
> 
> 1st thing I'm doing is firing their over hyping marketing department.


you only need 10% collateral to get that kind of business loan from a bank. if all 50k members of this board donated 1000 dollars we could get the loan probably at 8 to 12 percent interest...


----------



## Jinny1

Someone PM me when JF-AMD responds???


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15288669*
> 1 Front End
> Bazajillion Cores
> .25 FPUs
> AVX-65,536bits
> 
> Ya, it will be the best CPU ever!


2pm process node required i supose???


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15288819*
> 2pm process node required i supose???


200 feet squared


----------



## jivenjune

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288604*
> Look at what happens when you put a FULL 8 core load on that FX 8150 overclocked. Go ahead...I'll give you some time to find the reviews, I remember them relatively well.
> 
> There's EXTREMELY (unusually so) high power draw, however the performance is right where it should be when under the proper load (between the two flagship Sandy Bridge chips). Bulldozer absolutely falls on its face (currently) with lighter loads (gaming and other single threaded and legacy apps). And again, the power draw is absolutely unrealistic. Yes, its a big hungry chip, but not as much as we've seen in the reviews. It just doesn't make any sense for it to be pulling nearly 600w at 4.6GHz, just running Prime. That just makes 0 sense at all.
> 
> Now, look at how in games...it compares with the Phenom II. The Phenom II is beating the FX 4 core. Again, something isn't adding up right.
> 
> You are correct, it could just absolutely suck. But there's far too many things that are way too far out of whack with these results that we're seeing. The results don't lie...yes it sucks right now (clearly). But the results are also showing us things that just don't make sense. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.
> 
> This is why I'm sitting back, and I'm waiting to see what happens when real people get their hands on these chips, with the proper BIOS, and proper OS tweaks (MS HotFix that was supposedly released yesterday to fix a L1 cache bug).
> 
> If I'm correct (I may or may not be, I have no idea), then Bulldozer could just end up being a pretty decent performer for its price. If I'm wrong....well then Bulldozer sucks....and I could be wrong.


I'm not completely tech savy when it comes to folding, but doesn't folding generally fully utilize a CPU to earn XYZ amount of PPD? El Gapo's results indicate that even in folding, something where the FX 8150 should completely excel at, falls pretty far behind even current Phenom II x6s.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jivenjune;15288860*
> I'm not completely tech savy when it comes to folding, but doesn't folding generally fully utilize a CPU to earn XYZ amount of PPD? El Gapo's results indicate that even in folding, something where the FX 8150 should completely excel at, falls pretty far behind even current Phenom II x6s.


Well, like I said in that long winded quote....

Bulldozer could just end up sucking as badly as we've seen.

Proper BIOS, and OS hotfixes COULD fix it it too (at least so its a reasonable alternative to Intel).

I'm not expecting miracles to happen with software fixes (BIOS and MS Hotfix). But I am at least remaining hopeful that those could potentially even out the odd results that we've seen. It's been done in the past (Sandy Bridge, Thuban, Phenom x4, Netburst anyone?). Why couldn't it be possible that there's a major software problem today with FX?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinny1;15288817*
> Someone PM me when JF-AMD responds???


Its not his fault. He probably hated to say what he said before, but had no choice. Now I see why it was so easy for many to stay within the NDA. If BD would have been awesome we would have saw a lot more info before hand.


----------



## pioneerisloud

I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


What im wondering is why the power draw is so much higher compared to a phenom 2? It must be because of the module architecture compared to the thuban architecture. Someone like me who likes to game and do a lot of other things at the same time it seems that disabling half the modules wouldnt be a good idea.

Did the guy post his results on the power consumption?


----------



## AMDrocks

So the modules is the reason to poor performance and high power consumption?

With DGlee's tests,I think it catches up to SB when you disable the second core in each module (is that what he did?)


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15288930*
> What im wondering is why the power draw is so much higher compared to a phenom 2? It must be because of the module architecture compared to the thuban architecture. Someone like me who likes to game and do a lot of other things at the same time it seems that disabling half the modules wouldnt be a good idea.
> 
> Did the guy post his results on the power consumption?


He didn't give a link to his source, as he just compiled it from another forum, from a user that's been experimenting.

EDIT:
Just PM'd him, asking him to show his source with an edit.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15288809*
> you only need 10% collateral to get that kind of business loan from a bank. if all 50k members of this board donated 1000 dollars we could get the loan probably at 8 to 12 percent interest...


I want to buy them outright though, the CEO has potential, he can stay, I'll have to drill down on the engineering team and find out what went wrong.

Everyone at marketing is fired. You can't over-hype and under-deliver.









If anything, you under-promise and over-deliver = Happy Long Term Customers raving about your products, instead of what is being seen in this thread, and in the Reviews thread.

That's my short term strategy. Maybe we can convince Google to buy AMD. They blew $12 billion just to get Motorolla's patent portfolio, AMD's market cap is 3.41B.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


I saw that, imagine if instead of Modules, they just made 4 super cores, and increased the cache to feed them?


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


Im waiting. Im giving this thing a chance. My first instinct was to sale my CHV and grab a SB, but I am constantly checking guys like , El Gappo's posts to see what they are coming up with. And with so many people apparently buying these chips in the first day, will not be long till we get some other, real people reviews. It cant be bad as we think. Also the power draw is being over hyped. Its not that much more then the Phenom II's, but I guess at 32nm it should be a lot less.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Maybe somebody can get ahold of Gappo and see if he can recreate the above post for us? He's also got a CHV doesn't he?


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


That's actually not strange, it was predicted that CMT would mean roughly a 20% hit versus a regular SMT design. The problem is that it was expected to be a 20% hit on a uArch that should have increased IPC to Phenom II. They fell flat on the IPC increase from Phenom II. Heck that's the biggest gripe regarding that statement of 'it has increased IPC people, geeze do you think we wouldn't improve IPC'. Doesn't seem like they did.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15288948*
> Im waiting. Im giving this thing a chance. My first instinct was to sale my CHV and grab a SB, but I am constantly checking guys like , El Gappo's posts to see what they are coming up with. And with so many people apparently buying these chips in the first day, will not be long till we get some other, real people reviews. It cant be bad as we think.


Yeah, I is waiting too.


----------



## Andstraus

Gah I'm torn! My head says Intel, but my heart says AMD.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288957*
> Maybe somebody can get ahold of Gappo and see if he can recreate the above post for us? He's also got a CHV doesn't he?


He's using a CHV.

Edit: He also has the latest BIOS just released.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15288940*
> I want to buy them outright though, the CEO has potential, he can stay, I'll have to drill down on the engineering team and find out what went wrong.
> 
> Everyone at marketing is fired. You can't over-hype and under-deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, you under-promise and over-deliver = Happy Long Term Customers raving about your products, instead of what is being seen in this thread, and in the Reviews thread.
> 
> That's my short term strategy. Maybe we can convince Google to buy AMD. They blew $12 billion just to get Motorolla's patent portfolio, AMD's market cap is 3.41B.
> 
> I saw that, imagine if instead of Modules, they just made 4 super cores, and increased the cache to feed them?


you would be buying them outright.. with a loan.. actually you might ask the US govt they might spot you 5 B

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288938*
> He didn't give a link to his source, as he just compiled it from another forum, from a user that's been experimenting.
> 
> EDIT:
> Just PM'd him, asking him to show his source with an edit.


ok appreciate that.


----------



## Seronx

And the stock drops again YOU DROP STOCKS you drop HARD!!!

Everyone is pulling out hard


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15288948*
> Im waiting. Im giving this thing a chance. My first instinct was to sale my CHV and grab a SB, but I am constantly checking guys like , El Gappo's posts to see what they are coming up with. And with so many people apparently buying these chips in the first day, will not be long till we get some other, real people reviews. It cant be bad as we think. Also the power draw is being over hyped. Its not that much more then the Phenom II's, but I guess at 32nm it should be a lot less.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15288961*
> Yeah, I is waiting too.


Keep the dream alive.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15288980*
> And the stock drops again YOU DROP STOCKS you drop HARD!!!
> 
> Everyone is pulling out hard


Yes....pull out...pull out....pull out!!!!!!

<<< Buys tons of AMD stock for dirt cheap.....

Oh, that link I posted, he's edited the source in now guys.









I'll PM Gappo and ask him about disabling cores.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288988*
> Yes....pull out...pull out....pull out!!!!!!
> 
> <<< Buys tons of AMD stock for dirt cheap.....
> 
> Oh, that link I posted, he's edited the source in now guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll PM Gappo and ask him about disabling cores.


Thanks mate, Much appreciated.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Just sent Gappo the PM about it. Hopefully he'll be able to find the time to confirm this or not.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


Cinebench 11.5

Gimped 4cu/4c FX8150 from that review : 3.8
Phenom II 975 3.6Ghz : 4.23

Still fails, sorry.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667;15288979*
> you would be buying them outright.. with a loan.. actually you might ask the US govt they might spot you 5 B


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15288980*
> And the stock drops again YOU DROP STOCKS you drop HARD!!!
> 
> Everyone is pulling out hard


Found a potential buyer.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15289002*
> Cinebench 11.5
> 
> Gimped 4c/4t FX8150 from that review : 3.8
> Phenom II 975 3.6Ghz : 4.23
> 
> Still fails, sorry.


Did you do this test? If so can you show us some results?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15289006*
> Did you do this test? If so can you show us some results?


No, but its not hard to find results to compare to that review. The 4.23 for the PHII X4 975 came from Anandtech.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15289014*
> No, but its not hard to find results to compare to that review. The 4.23 for the PHII X4 975 came from Anandtech.


I think that is why Pioneer wanted to see a real world result from a 8150/8120 cut down to 4 cores. To see what the actual result would be. It wont take long for one of these guys to show us. Not saying you are wrong, but an actual result of a test would be nice.


----------



## Seronx

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDAHfX5oZQ[/ame]


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuckclc;15289023*
> I think that is why Pioneer wanted to see a real world result from a 8150/8120 cut down to 4 cores. To see what the actual result would be. It wont take long for one of these guys to show us. Not saying you are wrong, but an actual result of a test would be nice.












+

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/345

=

IPC is still slower than Phenom II.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15289038*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/345
> 
> =
> 
> IPC is still slower than Phenom II.












Sucks if true.


----------



## pioneerisloud

The XS guy also never once stated clock speeds on his FX8150. It could be stock clocked, downclocked....we have no clue. That's why I'd like to see one of our own do these same tests, but more in depth if possible.

Keep in mind too, that if you're disabling half of the "cores", and putting it back to a "native quad" (like Phenom II is), you'll also have the ability to clock significantly higher I'll bet.


----------



## AMDrocks

I am really eager to see the results from El gappo









I'm going to go play some bfbc2, When i come back, I hope something interesting has happened.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

I'd really like that to actually make a huge difference Pioneer, but I'll wait & see. One way or the other, they have two months because I am sitting on to much inventory to go out toss money around right now.

Hopefully Gappo comes back with some positive results, but I'm not holding my breath. Otherwise, I'll be popping for a Z68 UD-5 and a 2500K because I'm done with the waiting game after half a decade of it. :/


----------



## Derp

Another thing to keep in mind is that the PHII975 is 3.6Ghz without turbo, If that gimped FX8150 is stock it is running 3.9-4.2Ghz and still scoring less than Phenom II.

I don't see any real reason for the reviewer to down clock the FX especially when he includes the stock FX8150 eight core score in the graph.


----------



## Chuckclc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15289103*
> Another thing to keep in mind is that the PHII975 is 3.6Ghz without turbo, If that gimped FX8150 is stock it is running 3.9-4.2Ghz and still scoring less than Phenom II.
> 
> I don't see any real reason for the reviewer to down clock the FX especially when he includes the stock FX8150 eight core score in the graph.


No reason to, we are just curious to what may have gone wrong. I really cannot believe AMD would have released a series of chips this disappointing. So I think this is just more of a "I know they didnt" period we are going through.


----------



## Zackcy

Hardware canucks reviews: My favourite http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/47155-amd-bulldozer-fx-8150-processor-review.html


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;15289165*
> Hardware canucks reviews: My favourite http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/47155-amd-bulldozer-fx-8150-processor-review.html


Quote:


> At these settings, the system is idling at around 195W, but when running the aforementioned Prime95 stress test, it pulls an immense 550W from the socket. If we also add a fully loaded GeForce GTX 460 1GB to the mix, that number spikes up to almost 800W. Obviously, no one runs a CPU and GPU stress tests at the same time, but this does illustrate what the worst case scenario could be when it comes to power consumption.


Mine as well


----------



## Zackcy

Sigh, more expensive than a 2500K yet underperforms it...........sort of.










And the 2600K wipes the floor with it.


----------



## flashtest

About the disabling of one of the cores in a module so it works better - You are not supposed to do that








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JF-AMD;15112515*
> Or this example: engineer figures out how to share components in order to get two integer cores into a small die size. Engineer says it is two cores. Marketing says it is two cores. System says it is two cores. OS says it is two cores. Application says it is two cores. Someone on the internet says it is one core.
> 
> If you have 2 different integer schedulers (that are not connected) and you have two different sets of integer pipelines (that are not connected), how can you call this anything but two cores?
> 
> Nobody has ever been able to explain how this is one core other than "well, _I_ think it is...."


----------



## odditory

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;15289190*
> Sigh, more expensive than a 2500K yet underperforms it...........sort of.


I learned long ago that when something is touted as the next big thing but then is delayed for months or years, its usually a bad sign. Often the thing isn't living up to expectations "in the lab" so more delays to rework it, which would be great if one could freeze time but unfortunately the rest of the industry and the world continues to pass by.

I had held off on a new BF3 build until some BD benches were out and looks like tomorrow I'll be cruising down to Microcenter for the $179 i5-2500k + $80 off a motherboard when purchased in combo, still the best price to performance deal in existence.

Dark waters ahead for AMD and they know it. To quote hardwarecanucks: "As it stands, in most instances, AMD are lagging behind Intel when it comes to performance per dollar, performance per watt and performance per square millimeter of die space. The good news for AMD fans is the Pilediver refresh should be arriving in early 2012, albeit in APU form first, and they claim a 10-15% performance increase. However, even that threatens to be totally eclipsed since Intel's upcoming mainstream Ivy Bridge processors are also launching sometime in early 2012."


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15289192*
> About the disabling of one of the cores in a module so it works better - You are not supposed to do that


lol JF...... We won't be seeing him on OCN again, that's for sure.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15289212*
> lol JF...... We won't be seeing him on OCN again, that's for sure.


JF-IBM

That is when we will be seeing him


----------



## Zackcy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *odditory;15289204*
> I learned long ago that when something is touted as the next big thing but then is delayed for months or years, its usually for a reason - usually because its not living up to the hype on the bench or in the lab.


I didn't buy into the hype, didn't even care. I just said "If it's better, I'll buy it. If not, Intel."

Just disappointed that AMD couldn't even scare Intel. I mean, Intel's next big step is around the corner (early 2012) right around the time AMD's Piledriver "refresh". Maybe that will match 2600k performance. But at that point, Ivy Bridge and it's 3D transistors................yikes.

AMD is losing pretty bad =/


----------



## Evil Penguin

So JF wasn't specific about the whole IPC thing, but I think people are giving him too much flack. Right now he isn't commenting on the whole thing because at the end of the day, he's a server guy. Now when the server parts ship and they just happen to suck, then you can request answers.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Actually, JF *was* specific when he said "IPC increases" on many occasions, both here & elsewhere, in reference to the then current AMD product lineup. Whether this is some sort of bug, or not...that statement stands in stark contrast to the truth of the matter. IPC quite obviously decreased. :/

Edit// just noticed that Derp has it quoted in his sig


----------



## AMDrocks

Well, Once it is released, Then we can bench (won't include me though)


----------



## BigCactus

JF-amd is riding his bike somewhere on Lance Armstrong's ranch laughing about this whole thing. This whole bulldozer failure isn't a big deal because at the end of the day, it accounts for a very minute percentage of market share. This is only a big deal here because we demand great performance, and didn't get it with bulldozer.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigCactus;15289293*
> JF-amd is riding his bike somewhere on Lance Armstrong's ranch laughing about this whole thing. This whole bulldozer failure isn't a big deal because at the end of the day, it accounts for a very minute percentage of market share. This is only a big deal here because we demand great performance, and didn't get it with bulldozer.


Its a big deal because he lied to everyone all over the net through months and months of delays when he knew the truth was that IPC had decreased.


----------



## linkin93

Lol.

You guys are funny. This is great. Please keep up the entertainment


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;15289314*
> Lol.
> 
> You guys are funny. This is great. Please keep up the entertainment


We are here FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;15289314*
> Lol.
> 
> You guys are funny. This is great. Please keep up the entertainment


----------



## AMDrocks

The Piledriver Blog is Live, Is what we need.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;15289259*
> Actually, JF *was* specific when he said "IPC increases" on many occasions, both here & elsewhere, in reference to the then current AMD product lineup. Whether this is some sort of bug, or not...that statement stands in stark contrast to the truth of the matter. IPC quite obviously decreased. :/
> 
> Edit// just noticed that Derp has it quoted in his sig


Generally speaking it seems that he was wrong...
Perhaps it was more like "IPC will increase... with things like Handbreak."


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15289401*
> The Piledriver Blog is Live, Is what we need.


Well you know....there are people that could change the name of the thread....









I won't do it though.


----------



## Zackcy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15289470*
> Well you know....there are people that could change the name of the thread....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't do it though.


Well there is certainty a lot of Bull in this thread










http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rDwXuAINJk

Remember this vid


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;15289503*
> Well there is certainty a lot of Bull in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rDwXuAINJk
> 
> Remember this vid


I guess all of us remember it all too well ...


----------



## flashtest

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx-8150--8120-6100-and-4100-performance-review
Link is self explaining.
hint:FX4100 <= A8-3850


----------



## mav2000

That video was like awesome...unlike the final product....


----------



## AMDrocks

Piledriver better pick AMD back up, Because if AMD doesn't be competitive in performance, Intel will have a monopoly, Although that will never happen.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;15289503*
> Well there is certainty a lot of Bull in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rDwXuAINJk
> 
> Remember this vid


263 likes, 521 dislikes -Hell, that's less popular than a Justin Biber video


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;15288915*
> I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


Does this mean what I think it means?


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;15289622*
> Does this mean what I think it means?


What were you thinking??


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15289699*
> What were you thinking??


That the reason BD was a huge dissapointment is because of a software issue?


----------



## Disturbed117

Maybe there is some hope after all?


----------



## thenerdal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;15289722*
> Maybe there is some hope after all?


----------



## mav2000

Well, lets look at it in perspective. Intel has the majority of the market by a large percentage. Codes will be written to work well with a majority of the systems. AMD has a small share of the market. Just dont know how many companies are willing to add code just to make AMD users happy.

AMD should have stuck to the same path as Intel and looked at probably having a cheaper alternative with the same kind of architecture as Intel is running, because at this point of time running 8 cores is beyond stupidity, simply as there is barely any software for it.

As of today, AMD made the mistake of trying to be innovative in a market where there is not enough flexibility for innovations not being used by a majority of the market. The second mistake that AMD made was to botch that innovation up as well. And to add to it, they added a nice heat source for the upcoming winter. Use it wisely and the cost of oil will not go up much this winter, as most AMD users can use their desktops along with a Fermi to keep the whole damn house warm.

I dont think there is going to be some "magic" bios/software fix which will be able to push IPC up suddenly by 10-15-20 percent or whatever each person is expecting. There maybe small gains as the bios/software is tweaked.

Having spewed all this venom, I may still go out and get a 8150 just for testing it out and kind of laying this topic to rest in my own mind.


----------



## twich12

i would not say this is a saving grace.. its slightly better than phenom II, still no where near SB AND if you do this to improve your individual core ipc then you lose the multithreaded power that actually competed with some SB.... IMHO epic fail is still an epic fail


----------



## BigCactus

There should be some kind of built in option where you can turn off 2 cores for better performance when you don't need all 8 cores.


----------



## cokezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackcy;15289503*
> Well there is certainty a lot of Bull in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rDwXuAINJk
> 
> Remember this vid


Adding comments has been disabled for this video.

good for them


----------



## Nikkopo

JF-AMD hasn't wrote in this thread yet even tho he's been online?
At least AMD should somewhere have a little congress explaining why Zambezi turned out to be junk.

This feels like a "small electronic store" scam. They hype you up with all information, making you wanna buy it soooo bad and you wait for it forever, and then when it arrives (you buy it from the small electronic store", they just take off and you never see them again, and what you got just sucks and you got totally scammed.

-Metaphor


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thenerdal;15289748*












Hoping that windows 8 will bring an improvement only to Bulldozer --
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20107380-1/benchmark-tests-offer-first-hints-of-windows-8-performance/

even an i3 gets more boost moving from Win7 to Win8 in %.

Disabling one of the 'cores' in a module so the other can turbo higher and does not have to share resources = more performance per 'core'- would you expect any less ?

And aren't the AM3+ officially supported - why should we wait for a 'micro update bringing performance" for a product that's way beyond 90days in retail (meaning the Bulldozer boards).


----------



## Sadist

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigCactus*


There should be some kind of built in option where you can turn off 2 cores for better performance when you don't need all 8 cores.


AKA buying a 1100T


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


JF-IBM

That is when we will be seeing him


It would be nice if IBM could buy out AMD. IBM Power FX?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











B3 is the new stepping


How long would a B3 stepping take for them to implement and release?


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


AMDZone is in denial again

"We don't know if Bulldozer actually fails or not."


I feel for you man... Go support the people who will feed you crap once they monopolize the chip industry...

Tell me they can't cause it's illegal... They basically already have, and as I stated before we are lucky AMD still has the ability to give us something aside of phenom chips.

You posting your crap isn't going to make things change, kinda like when you were told crying wasn't going to make your bo bo stop bleeding.. How many times do you have to post how fail this chip is? Move on, go get your intel chip and enjoy it. Nobody here really needs to hear your redundancy we get it.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15290257*
> I feel for you man... Go support the people who will feed you crap once they monopolize the chip industry...
> 
> Tell me they can't cause it's illegal... They basically already have, and as I stated before we are lucky AMD still has the ability to give us something aside of phenom chips.
> 
> You posting your crap isn't going to make things change, kinda like when you were told crying wasn't going to make your bo bo stop bleeding.. How many times do you have to post how fail this chip is? Move on, go get your intel chip and enjoy it. Nobody here really needs to hear your redundancy we get it.


What are we supposed to do, tap AMD on the shoulder and compliment them on their good work ?

Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks - even hardcore intel fanboys would love that - it would mean cheaper CPU's and the urge for intel to focus more on things other than onboard graphics in their new CPUs.

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD, be it for a better engineering (failing to a PhII seriously?), marketing(videos/IPC increses -then hide under a rock when release comes- seriously?) ...

Just hope they put their shi... erm 'creative thinking' together - come with a press release and a new stepping or whatever, but one thing should be clear - the situation at the moment is not bright.

So, AMD... WAKE UP (before it's too late).

Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd/news/104105-tab.png


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


JF-AMD hasn't wrote in this thread yet even tho he's been online?


Honestly, he's said it more than once: Zambezi/FX is not JF-AMD's product line for which he is Director of Marketing.

You expecting him to speak for FX is like expecting Admin or Chipp to speak for Overclockers.com.

They are both rooted in the same basic technical foundation, but not the same product.

Honestly, give the guy a rest. He's put up with more FX-hating BS from people than he should ever have to, considering it's not what he gets paid for.


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


*What are we supposed to do, tap AMD on the shoulder and compliment them on their good work ?*
*Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks *- even hardcore intel fanboys would love that - it would mean cheaper CPU's and the urge for intel to focus more on things other than onboard graphics in their new CPUs.

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD, be it for a better engineering (failing to a PhII seriously?), marketing(videos/IPC increses -then hide under a rock when release comes- seriously?) ...

Just hope they put their shi... erm 'creative thinking' together - come with a press release and a new stepping or whatever, but one thing should be clear - the situation at the moment is not bright.

So, AMD... WAKE UP (before it's too late).

Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd...104105-tab.png



Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks

Was it supposed to? I think you should take a look at the market shares and realize it only gets better with support.. If they lose any more market it's going to get ugly all round.. All intel will have to do is get one more fps and we will all say fail dozer.. What did everyone expect? Nobody has really even giving it a chance.. It's going to take a bad chip release intel, but then the 2600k beats everything currently avalible from amd so it doesn't really matter. I just love seeing people complain about bench FPS's when the system SOME of them are running wouldn't benefit since It would never allow the big 2600k to stretch it's legs anyhow.. <<<--- AMD and intel owners alike non bias statement for the record

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD

Over and over and over again from the same people. Don't you think that we are all aware of the situation? Maybe they should post it again.


----------



## blabla125

wait was bd released ?


----------



## Scorpion87

Yeah, like yesterday ??!

Sent from my MT15i using Tapatalk


----------



## blabla125

wait just saw an ad on newegg internet oragasm!!!


----------



## Hogwasher

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks

Was it supposed to? I think you should take a look at the market shares and realize it only gets better with support.. If they lose any more market it's going to get ugly all round.. All intel will have to do is get one more fps and we will all say fail dozer.. What did everyone expect? Nobody has really even giving it a chance.. It's going to take a bad chip release intel, but then the 2600k beats everything currently avalible from amd so it doesn't really matter. I just love seeing people complain about bench FPS's when the system SOME of them are running wouldn't benefit since It would never allow the big 2600k to stretch it's legs anyhow.. <<<--- AMD and intel owners alike non bias statement for the record

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD

Over and over and over again from the same people. Don't you think that we are all aware of the situation? Maybe they should post it again.


everybody's just venting due to disappointing results


----------



## Hazzeedayz

the chip isn't doing that bad guys, it's a new arch, give it time, it'll improve on the next revision.

also, try disabling 4 cores...dude man that posted earlier was right...i've seen quite a few decent benches for a 4 core 8150.

buck up guys, give it time, AMD will do us proud in the end


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*


JF-AMD hasn't wrote in this thread yet even tho he's been online?
At least AMD should somewhere have a little congress explaining why Zambezi turned out to be junk.

This feels like a "small electronic store" scam. They hype you up with all information, making you wanna buy it soooo bad and you wait for it forever, and then when it arrives (you buy it from the small electronic store", they just take off and you never see them again, and what you got just sucks and you got totally scammed.

-Metaphor


Yea I agree. I don't like the whole being lied to thing either. Whether he is a server guy or whatever doesn't matter since he is the one talking about it. Could have been anyone.

It definitely feels like a scam, now that we are at the end and we know the results and they aren't looking so well.


----------



## Desert Rat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


the chip isn't doing that bad guys, it's a new arch, give it time, it'll improve on the next revision.

also, *try disabling 4 cores*...dude man that posted earlier was right...i've seen quite a few decent benches for a 4 core 8150.

buck up guys, give it time, AMD will do us proud in the end


Or you can just buy a 4 core AMD or Intel and save a lot of money. Dont waste money on a 8 core cpu just to use 4 cores.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


A friend of mine, who is very very very very into microprocessor engineering and design was very optimistic about that link when I sent it to him last night. his basic thought is that there are 2 problems, one is the l1 cache is getting trashed, the other is that the software is making this weakness substantially worse. We are going to get our hands on a fx of some variety and make some changes to a opensource OS scheduler and see what happens.

I am personally very curious as

A. this kind of learning is fun for me

B. its a good idea to get a handle on resource provision from a programming stand point.

the one Idea I floated at him was that the OS scheduler likely needs to alternate cores per thread.

IE if you break the Clusters up like so with 8 threads

--------------Clust A------Cluster B-----Cluster C-----Cluster D
1st cycle core A---T1--------------- T2----------------T3----------------T4
2nd cycle core B---T5----------------T6-----------------T7---------------T8
This might stand a good chance of better provisioning the resources and reduce the trashing of the cache. I am going to pick up a cheap fx4100 and a mobo and play around. good excersize for me anyways in regards to programming. Its worth experimenting and maybe I'll learn something, and that would be awesome.

BTW don't expect any results any time in the very near future. screwing around with thread scheduling is not easy.


----------



## flashtest

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


A friend of mine, who is very very very very into microprocessor engineering and design was very optimistic about that link when I sent it to him last night. his basic thought is that there are 2 problems, one is the l1 cache is getting trashed, the other is that the software is making this weakness substantially worse. We are going to get our hands on a fx of some variety and make some changes to a opensource OS scheduler and see what happens.

I am personally very curious as

A. this kind of learning is fun for me

B. its a good idea to get a handle on resource provision from a programming stand point.

the one Idea I floated at him was that the OS scheduler likely needs to alternate cores per thread.

IE if you break the Clusters up like so with 8 threads

--------------Clust A------Cluster B-----Cluster C-----Cluster D
1st cycle core A---T1--------------- T2----------------T3----------------T4
2nd cycle core B---T5----------------T6-----------------T7---------------T8
This might stand a good chance of better provisioning the resources and reduce the trashing of the cache. I am going to pick up a cheap fx4100 and a mobo and play around. good excersize for me anyways in regards to programming. Its worth experimenting and maybe I'll learn something, and that would be awesome.

BTW don't expect any results any time in the very near future. screwing around with thread scheduling is not easy.


I am not really in the best competence to comment on that but,
could it be due to something quite simpler, like for example that when you disable 1 of the cores in a module it does not have to share L2-L3-FP Scheduler-FPBuffer and a bunch of predictors-prefetchers and it also allows better turbocoring?


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


A friend of mine, who is very very very very into microprocessor engineering and design was very optimistic about that link when I sent it to him last night. his basic thought is that there are 2 problems, one is the l1 cache is getting trashed, the other is that the software is making this weakness substantially worse. We are going to get our hands on a fx of some variety and make some changes to a opensource OS scheduler and see what happens.

I am personally very curious as

A. this kind of learning is fun for me

B. its a good idea to get a handle on resource provision from a programming stand point.

the one Idea I floated at him was that the OS scheduler likely needs to alternate cores per thread.

IE if you break the Clusters up like so with 8 threads

--------------Clust A------Cluster B-----Cluster C-----Cluster D
1st cycle core A---T1--------------- T2----------------T3----------------T4
2nd cycle core B---T5----------------T6-----------------T7---------------T8
This might stand a good chance of better provisioning the resources and reduce the trashing of the cache. I am going to pick up a cheap fx4100 and a mobo and play around. good excersize for me anyways in regards to programming. Its worth experimenting and maybe I'll learn something, and that would be awesome.

BTW don't expect any results any time in the very near future. screwing around with thread scheduling is not easy.


Yea and you just believe that?

Btw since when is disabling 4 cores on an 8core a good thing? Than buying a PII would be a better idea. Especially since they would be MUCH cheaper.
And if it doesn't even beat a "2500K", not even near, as the post says. Why would you even want it? The BD is really expensive now. So more money and less performance? Is that a good thing? No, of course not!

And what about the FX4100s than? If disabling 4 cores on your 8core would do something. The FX4100 series are known to be much worse than the old PII even. What about the FX4100s?


----------



## Amor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


A friend of mine, who is very very very very into microprocessor engineering and design was very optimistic about that link when I sent it to him last night. his basic thought is that there are 2 problems, one is the l1 cache is getting trashed, the other is that the software is making this weakness substantially worse. We are going to get our hands on a fx of some variety and make some changes to a opensource OS scheduler and see what happens.


Does kind of make sense but then again most people want things "nao" and don't care for waiting. I do see potential in BD and have a client lined up to get a 8150.

On the server side of things, I think BD really has some potential but then again I'm not a server person since that's not what I study/studied (I mainly do GIS and DB systems but will take electives in Networking and maybe HPC if it's offered).

EDIT: @ pcclock: Then why is it the first thing some people do is disable hyperthreading on their i7's for "Better game performance"? Granted AMD's approach to "HT" is a bit backwards but I think it might be the way of the future just looking at the "multi threading matrix" diagram that's fairly common (this one if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about).


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


I am not really in the best competence to comment on that but,
could it be due to something quite simpler, like for example that when you disable 1 of the cores in a module it does not have to share L2-L3-FP Scheduler-FPBuffer and a bunch of predictors-prefetchers and it also allows better turbocoring?


 No, my suspicion (unproven which is why I will pick up a cheap cpu and mb) is that the front end on the prefetch and decode side is getting over worked. this is causing problems all the way down. In fact it could be cache flushing etc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pcclock*


Yea and you just believe that?

Btw since when is disabling 4 cores on an 8core a good thing? Than buying a PII would be a better idea. Especially since they would be MUCH cheaper.
And if it doesn't even beat a "2500K", not even near, as the post says. Why would you even want it? The BD is really expensive now. So more money and less performance? Is that a good thing? No, of course not!

And what about the FX4100s than? If disabling 4 cores on your 8core would do something. The FX4100 series are known to be much worse than the old PII even. What about the FX4100s?


 I am talking about getting a fx4100 which is dirt cheap, and experimenting. Its just good programming practice and its all about performance. areas of computing I have interest in. If it winds up massively improving performance by scheduling differently, then thats awesome, if not I get a spare rig for WP or something. No great loss either way.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Does kind of make sense but then again most people want things "nao" and don't care for waiting. I do see potential in BD and have a client lined up to get a 8150.

On the server side of things, I think BD really has some potential but then again I'm not a server person since that's not what I study/studied (I mainly do GIS and DB systems but will take electives in Networking and maybe HPC if it's offered).

EDIT: @ pcclock: Then why is it the first thing some people do is disable hyperthreading on their i7's for "Better game performance"?



the potential for BD might be a silicon revision or 2 away. I get the feeling they are going to have to improve the front end logic to prevent current software from running like crap.

But thats just my speculation on the subject.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Amor*


Does kind of make sense but then again most people want things "nao" and don't care for waiting. I do see potential in BD and have a client lined up to get a 8150.

On the server side of things, I think BD really has some potential but then again I'm not a server person since that's not what I study/studied (I mainly do GIS and DB systems but will take electives in Networking and maybe HPC if it's offered).

EDIT: *@ pcclock: Then why is it the first thing some people do is disable hyperthreading on their i7's for "Better game performance"? Granted AMD's approach to "HT" is a bit backwards but I think it might be the way of the future just looking at the "multi threading matrix" diagram that's fairly common (this one if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about).*


^this = thank you...wasen't going to respond to the guy lol


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


http://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?t=1140632

After i read that. I see no future in AMD and this is scaring me. Either I'll sell out all the AMD parts for Intel & Nvidia. Yup... back to my old brand choices.

What you guys here now with phenom ii and hd6000 series maybe the last best performing hardwares. Or maybe hd7000

I hope hd7000 die shrink wont be turn out like bulldozer.

If AMD get their internal management straight up. Change back the way it was planned. They could have been king of the hill instead of failing into the ditch.


Sour ex-employees are annoying, I personally think that while he's correct with the synthesis tools part, almost all the rest is a load of crap...Llano is a great chip, the GPU side at least knows what they're doing.

The way I see it, Intel can afford to put a lot of money into both their mobile/low power chips (ie. Atom, CULV i3s, etc) and server chip design teams, whereas AMD is mainly going for the mobile/low power chips because thats where the majority of the money is/will be, there's server chips being designed but they're not as good as if they had more people on them.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


They also got the mainstream market locked up.

According to JF-AMD, the enthusiast market accounts for 6% of sales, but he never did provide proof of where he got that number from.

I don't see that being accurate, 'cuz if it was, would Intel spend so much on bringing out 1366, or LGA2011, for a mere 6% of the market?


They don't, both of those sockets are for server hardware...We literally get rebranded server chipsets and CPUs with OCing, AMD is the only company with what could be argued is a dedicated server socket now. (AM3+)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Look at what happens when you put a FULL 8 core load on that FX 8150 overclocked. Go ahead...I'll give you some time to find the reviews, I remember them relatively well.

There's EXTREMELY (unusually so) high power draw, however the performance is right where it should be when under the proper load (between the two flagship Sandy Bridge chips). Bulldozer absolutely falls on its face (currently) with lighter loads (gaming and other single threaded and legacy apps). And again, the power draw is absolutely unrealistic. Yes, its a big hungry chip, but not as much as we've seen in the reviews. It just doesn't make any sense for it to be pulling nearly 600w at 4.6GHz, just running Prime. That just makes 0 sense at all.

Now, look at how in games...it compares with the Phenom II. The Phenom II is beating the FX 4 core. Again, something isn't adding up right.

You are correct, it could just absolutely suck. But there's far too many things that are way too far out of whack with these results that we're seeing. The results don't lie...yes it sucks right now (clearly). But the results are also showing us things that just don't make sense. 1+1 doesn't equal 3.

This is why I'm sitting back, and I'm waiting to see what happens when real people get their hands on these chips, with the proper BIOS, and proper OS tweaks (MS HotFix that was supposedly released yesterday to fix a L1 cache bug).

If I'm correct (I may or may not be, I have no idea), then Bulldozer could just end up being a pretty decent performer for its price. If I'm wrong....well then Bulldozer sucks....and I could be wrong.


I think it's just like Willamette was for Intel, or the HD2900XT was for ATI. An unintentional pipecleaner, performs like crap but they work out the issues and get it going good. (Eg. Northwood and HD4xx0)

IMO, AMD needs to look at the cache mostly, BD needs more L1 cache and they need to reduce the latency on the L2 and L3 cache by quite a bit, if it means reduce the size then fair enough...If there's a need for large cache then maybe add L4 cache?

There's also definitely problems with getting the chip to work efficiently, whether its mainly software or hardware holding it back is another matter entirely though, I'm hoping its software because then they can improve it easily and fast, hardware will have to wait for Piledriver.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


So the Bulldozer blog is about brainstorming ideas as to why bulldozer after months of delays was released with bad bios, L1 cache problems, improper microcode, and a lack of Windows 8 in every box?

I never said anyone couldn't do those things, by all means, proceed.


Eh, it happens with new architectures, Intel did it with Netburst when that first came out and that took 5+ years to make, Willamette was slower than the P3 and Athlons even with its higher clock speeds bar very specific scenarios (eg. BD owning with 8 cores loaded or the new instructions being used), it sucked power heavily, etc. When Northwood came out, Intel had worked out the new Microcode well, they fixed the power problems, the new instructions had at least moderate use in the industry and most of the actual problems were fixed. The fact Prescott sucked was irrelevant, that was a problem with the architecture as a whole (It put too much heat out due to leakage), which at 32nm and 22nm, etc will probably not happen.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *robbo2*


Deeply disappointed with the folding results gappo showed us. It can't even get close to the 6 core Phenoms. I'm struggling to believe any software or bios fix will make the chip a good buy










You'd be surprised how much software and BIOS fixes can improve efficiency.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *catharsis*


Personally, I think continuing holding on hope that there's some magic fix for BD is hopeless. It's here, these are its results. I think people are just going through denial right now. No MS hotfix can be that great that suddenly bulldozer skyrockets to stardom. What we have here is a poorly designed chip. That's all it boils down to. Netburst 2.0.


Oh yeah, Zambezi is screwed in the consumer market no matter what, part of the problem is definitely the cache (Massive latencies) which certainly can't be fixed in software, Bulldozer as a whole can be fixed though, if they fix the software side by years end, that'll be great for Piledriver.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


Well yeah, the cats out of the bag now. Really the thread doesn't serve any purpose other than letting us all vent in one place. Thus far the mods have let us go in our discussions, we've kept it pretty clean compared to where it ventured off to pre-release.

I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm really disappointed in bulldozer.. Before I left AMD I was upset with them for the performance I was getting from my 1090T, however I had always planning to return to AMD. This is not what I wanted, this is so bad it makes me sad.


Same, at least it lets me get my HTPC parts faster. (I'll get an i3 2100T and cheap mATX Z68 board or H67, depends, use in my main rig until IB is out and then get a new CPU then new board.







)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


We know Ivy Bridge is coming, but what about beyond that?


So far, Haswell looks to be more about power efficiency than anything, I doubt it'll be a big upgrade over IB/IB-E, just similar/slightly higher performance at much lower TDPs.

As for the marketing department...Well, most of it was just the consumers, it spiraled into that, no-one would be able to stop it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jivenjune*


I'm not completely tech savy when it comes to folding, but doesn't folding generally fully utilize a CPU to earn XYZ amount of PPD? El Gapo's results indicate that even in folding, something where the FX 8150 should completely excel at, falls pretty far behind even current Phenom II x6s.


Isn't folding FPU heavy? I reckon it's failing at folding because the FPUs aren't being efficiently used, iirc folding only uses SSE, maybe SSE2 too, if they recompiled it and used a compiler that had optimizations for BD, vs one with optimizations for Thuban (ie. Both had every instruction set they have, with optimizations for how they use their cache and cores, etc) then I think BD would win, but at the moment its approach simply isn't supported by software so its stuck using really inefficient approaches to data crunching.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I would like to share this post with you guys. This shows that there is something seriously wrong software wise with Bulldozer, and its actually a great chip once you break it down to 4 cores / 4 modules.


I'm willing to bet its the shared L1 and L2 cache...The high latency combined with both cores contending for it would show benefits due to that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *odditory*


Dark waters ahead for AMD and they know it.


Hardly, BD is first and foremost a server chip, Intel and AMD both just give us server hardware with OCing abilities.

Llano and Bobcat are selling well iirc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop*


Actually, JF *was* specific when he said "IPC increases" on many occasions, both here & elsewhere, in reference to the then current AMD product lineup. Whether this is some sort of bug, or not...that statement stands in stark contrast to the truth of the matter. IPC quite obviously decreased. :/

Edit// just noticed that Derp has it quoted in his sig










He said IPC increases. In some scenarios there are IPC increases.
Yes, he's a marketing guy, he stretched the truth as far as it can stretch but at the end of the day its _technically_ true.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thenerdal*


That the reason BD was a huge dissapointment is because of a software issue?










It could be that one of the shared components is having issues too, but its both, definitely.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd...104105-tab.png


Hmm, its actually running better on Linux than Windows.

Proves that some of the problem is software, though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


the chip isn't doing that bad guys, it's a new arch, give it time, it'll improve on the next revision.

also, try disabling 4 cores...dude man that posted earlier was right...i've seen quite a few decent benches for a 4 core 8150.

buck up guys, give it time, AMD will do us proud in the end


QFT except the last bit, hardly definite.









Anyone complaining and saying it's not any issue with software and its just a sucky chip obviously wasn't around for the Willamette P4, or even the original P5 Pentium or P6 Pentium Pro (Which is what SB is based off), both sucked, both had a later revision that was a great chip.

There's definitely software and hardware issues holding BD back atm, Piledriver will hopefully fix both...


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



QFT except the last bit, hardly definite.

*Anyone complaining and saying it's not any issue with software and its just a sucky chip obviously wasn't around for the Willamette P4, or even the original P5 Pentium or P6 Pentium Pro (Which is what SB is based off), both sucked, both had a later revision that was a great chip.*

There's definitely software and hardware issues holding BD back atm, Piledriver will hopefully fix both...


i tried pointing this out in an earlier post but people just acted like i was crazy.
glad to see some people on here are knowledgable.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


What are we supposed to do, tap AMD on the shoulder and compliment them on their good work ?

Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks - even hardcore intel fanboys would love that - it would mean cheaper CPU's and the urge for intel to focus more on things other than onboard graphics in their new CPUs.

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD, be it for a better engineering (failing to a PhII seriously?), marketing(videos/IPC increses -then hide under a rock when release comes- seriously?) ...

Just hope they put their shi... erm 'creative thinking' together - come with a press release and a new stepping or whatever, but one thing should be clear - the situation at the moment is not bright.

So, AMD... WAKE UP (before it's too late).

Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd...104105-tab.png



did they manage to get the patch for the kernel into that test ?Not surprised with the result either.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


So far, Haswell looks to be more about power efficiency than anything, I doubt it'll be a big upgrade over IB/IB-E, just similar/slightly higher performance at much lower TDPs.


Its way to early to even consider what Haswell will bring to the table. The earliest release for haswell is going to be in June of 2013 so it's a long way off. Ivy Bridge looks very promising in the meantime.

If Ivy Bridge can do 5.2-5.5Ghz with ease as it's speculated. Tacking on 10-15% IPC with Haswell will make for a very sweet chip.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Its way to early to even consider what Haswell will bring to the table. The earliest release for haswell is going to be in June of 2013 so it's a long way off. Ivy Bridge looks very promising in the meantime.

If Ivy Bridge can do 5.2-5.5Ghz with ease as it's speculated. Tacking on 10-15% IPC with Haswell will make for a very sweet chip.



IPC will only increase, if apps actually make use of the extra IPC. So the software model must improve, the library's must improve, programs must be optimized.

that said, if the chip can offer the resources and programs can use them, there will performance improvements, it not. you know how that goes.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


IPC will only increase, if apps actually make use of the extra IPC. So the software model must improve, the library's must improve, programs must be optimized.

that said, if the chip can offer the resources and programs can use them, there will performance improvements, it not. you know how that goes.


Many still think Ivy will bring 6 cores to 1155. 6 cores + 10% better IPC makes for an even better chip.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Many still think Ivy will bring 6 cores to 1155. 6 cores + 10% better IPC makes for an even better chip.


As I siad, you can have tons of IPC, if the software won't use it. Well, you know how that goes.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


As I siad, you can have tons of IPC, if the software won't use it. Well, you know how that goes.


You actually think programs won't handle the increased IPC?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Its way to early to even consider what Haswell will bring to the table. The earliest release for haswell is going to be in June of 2013 so it's a long way off. Ivy Bridge looks very promising in the meantime.

If Ivy Bridge can do 5.2-5.5Ghz with ease as it's speculated. Tacking on 10-15% IPC with Haswell will make for a very sweet chip.


I'm going by what Intel are saying, they're concentrating on power efficiency now.
I personally think it'll match Ivy in IPC, but use a lot less power and have more cores on each chip.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


I'm going by what Intel are saying, they're concentrating on power efficiency now.
I personally think it'll match Ivy in IPC, but use a lot less power and have more cores on each chip.


Aslong as it has more cores i'll buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Brutuz

I'm probably going to go for Ivy and then wait for the 16nm shrink to Haswell, more cores are useful to me, as is fast single thread performance.

That said, if AMD gets Piledriver going well like I suspect they will, I may go for that instead.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Nm, misread...


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


I'm probably going to go for Ivy and then wait for the 16nm shrink to Haswell, more cores are useful to me, as is fast single thread performance.

That said, if AMD gets Piledriver going well like I suspect they will, I may go for that instead.


Broadwell and i believe it's 14nm not 16nm


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


You actually think programs won't handle the increased IPC?


they might not. If the core can decode 6 instructions per clock and th eprogram feeds 2, geuss what. What can improve however is how many instructions they can decode per cycle and process in the pipeline, but that require clock speeds to go up.

CPU' are actually nothing more then glorified mechanical gates. you have the option of adding more gates, or making the gates move faster.You can arrange the gates into more useful patterns. this doesn't always however increase IPC, it might reduce latency. Thats where Intel chips have been outperforming AMD for sometime.

Try to think of water running through running through channels, the gates divert the water to various destinations. Each gate is always the same size. that means open or closed. Try to visualize what I am telling you.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


What are we supposed to do, tap AMD on the shoulder and compliment them on their good work ?

Do you seriously think that any of the posters here would not love the Bulldozer to be winning all benchmarks - even hardcore intel fanboys would love that - it would mean cheaper CPU's and the urge for intel to focus more on things other than onboard graphics in their new CPUs.

I think most of the posts are like a wake up call for AMD, be it for a better engineering (failing to a PhII seriously?), marketing(videos/IPC increses -then hide under a rock when release comes- seriously?) ...

Just hope they put their shi... erm 'creative thinking' together - come with a press release and a new stepping or whatever, but one thing should be clear - the situation at the moment is not bright.

So, AMD... WAKE UP (before it's too late).

Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd...104105-tab.png


Do you realize for the past years AMD internal management has been fork up? Some major engineer left and they fired the CEO who was about to screw everything over. AMD just recently found a new CEO. Things is everything was falling apart at the bulldozer development.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## capitaltpt

Many people here are waiting and hoping for Piledriver, but AMD needs to fix this waaayyy before then. According to a few articles a few weeks back:

http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...p-trinity.html

Trinity was pushed up to Q1 2012. If you don't know, Trinity is Bulldozer Arch with a GPU. If Zambezi performance is indicative of bulldozer, then adding a GPU is certainly not going to help things. AMD can't afford for Trinity to be a flop. The enthusiast market may only be 6% but the low power/mobile market where they gained lots of ground with Llano is MUCH bigger. If Trinity suffers the same fate as Bulldozer, then there is a very real possibility of unrecoverable damage to AMD. My guess is that if bulldozer's arch has any hope of success, we'll see it by the time the 8170 comes out. They HAVE to fix it at this point.


----------



## blabla125

wait when will the 8150 launch?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


wait when will the 8150 launch?


Been out for a day and a half already


----------



## tvr

Very good point I hope AMD Don't go under so to speak that would 
Mess it up for all of us

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Many people here are waiting and hoping for Piledriver, but AMD needs to fix this waaayyy before then. According to a few articles a few weeks back:

http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...p-trinity.html

Trinity was pushed up to Q1 2012. If you don't know, Trinity is Bulldozer Arch with a GPU. If Zambezi performance is indicative of bulldozer, then adding a GPU is certainly not going to help things. AMD can't afford for Trinity to be a flop. The enthusiast market may only be 6% but the low power/mobile market where they gained lots of ground with Llano is MUCH bigger. If Trinity suffers the same fate as Bulldozer, then there is a very real possibility of unrecoverable damage to AMD. My guess is that if bulldozer's arch has any hope of success, we'll see it by the time the 8170 comes out. They HAVE to fix it at this point.


----------



## iSeries

nothing really to add. feel like a bit of a sucker to have waited so long for this.

deliberate move from amd to postpone the release in june while all the mobo manufacturers released am3+ boards? they probably knew they had junk on their hands and thought if we had already invested in an am3+ board we'd be less likely to jump ship after they released this crap.

grrrr what a disappointment.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ormance-review
Link is self explaining.
hint:FX4100 <= A8-3850


Yep, that IS embarassing. The FX-4100 loses many tests to the A8-3850, which even wins over the FX-6100 in one or two occasions.

As to those saying there must be something "fixable" on the software side because disabling a core in each module improves IPC bit quite a bit, I ask: could this be a similar problem to Intel's Hyperthreading ? I mean, the i7 2600k is probably the best gaming chip IF you disable Hyperthreading. In a way, this is also a software problem, but there is no single fix that can improve performance in all applications; the patches would have to be applied to every single application affected that does not take Hyperthreading into account.

My point is, this may not be fixable by a software patch; AMD just did something they can't afford: make a CPU that will eventually work better in the future when software is properly optimized for it. Be realistic: not even Intel with all it's money has gotten application and game developers to optimize with Hyperthreading in mind (HT was first introduced in 2002!), and hence the popularity of the 2500k that has no HT dilemma (and has a better mainstream price / performance ratio).

As to the L1 cache bug making the CPU use too much power, let's also not forget something: the FX-8150 has 8 MB of L2 cache and 8 MB of L3 cache, for a total of 16 MB, and it is rumoured AMD have manufacturing process problems. By comparison, the i5 2500k has 1 MB L2 cache and 6 MB of L3 cache for a total of 7 MB of L2 and L3 cache; while the i7 2600k has two more megabytes of L3 cache, for a total of 9 MB of L2 and L3 cache.

Has anyone tried to disable the L3 cache (is it possible, by the way ?) and see if it improves ? I mean, it would still have 8 MB of L2 cache (2 MB per module), and given that that sits between i5 2500k and i7 2600k values, couldn't this be a way for AMD to save money ? I mean, it's CPU is not really doing anything useful with the extra cache it seems.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


Many people here are waiting and hoping for Piledriver, but AMD needs to fix this waaayyy before then. According to a few articles a few weeks back:

http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...p-trinity.html

Trinity was pushed up to Q1 2012. If you don't know, Trinity is Bulldozer Arch with a GPU. If Zambezi performance is indicative of bulldozer, then adding a GPU is certainly not going to help things. AMD can't afford for Trinity to be a flop. The enthusiast market may only be 6% but the low power/mobile market where they gained lots of ground with Llano is MUCH bigger. If Trinity suffers the same fate as Bulldozer, then there is a very real possibility of unrecoverable damage to AMD. My guess is that if bulldozer's arch has any hope of success, we'll see it by the time the 8170 comes out. They HAVE to fix it at this point.


Trinity actually has Piledriver cores in it, iirc?


----------



## blabla125

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Been out for a day and a half already


oh because on newegg i only see the 8120 and 6100


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tpi2007*


Yep, that IS emabrassing. The FX-4100 loses many tests to the A8-3850, which even wins over the FX-6100 in one or two occasions.

As to those saying there must be something "fixable" on the software side because disabling a core in each module improves IPC bit quite a bit, I ask: could this be a similar problem to Intel's Hyperthreading ? I mean, the i7 2600k is probably the best gaming chip IF you disable Hyperthreading. In a way, this is also a software problem, but there is no single fix that can improve performance in all applications; the patches would have to be applied to every single application affected that does not take Hyperthreading into account.

My point is, this may not be fixable by a software patch; AMD just did something they can't afford: make a CPU that will eventually work better in the future when software is properly optimized for it. Be realistic: not even Intel with all it's money has gotten application and game developers to optimize with Hyperthreading in mind (HT was first introduced in 2002!), and hence the popularity of the 2500k that has no HT dilemma (and has a better mainstream price / performance ratio).

As to the L1 cache bug making the CPU use too much power, let's also not forget something: the FX-8150 has 8 MB of L2 cache and 8 MB of L3 cache, for a total of 16 MB, and it is rumoured AMD have manufacturing process problems. By comparison, the i5 2500k has 1 MB L2 cache and 6 MB of L3 cache for a total of 7 MB of L2 and L3 cache; while the i7 2600k has two more megabytes of L3 cache, for a total of 9 MB of L2 and L3 cache.

*Has anyone tried to disable the L3 cache (is it possible, by the way ?) and see if it improves ? I mean, it would still have 8 MB of L2 cache (2 MB per module), and given that that sits between i5 2500k and i7 2600k values, couldn't this be a way for AMD to save money ? I mean, it's CPU is not really doing anything useful with the extra cache it seems*.



im curious about this as well


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Trinity actually has Piledriver cores in it, iirc?


No, Trinity is Bulldozer based, Llano was Phenom II based (or Athlon II, can't remember which)

According to roadmaps, we won't see Piledriver until 2013 which will be followed by excavator in 2014

EDIT: Yikes, I take that back. Trinity is Piledriver based. Sorry. In any regard, this arch needs to be fixed. Piledriver is still built on Bulldozer.

EDIT 2: I really need to read better. Piledriver 2012, Steamroller 2013, Excavator 2014


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *blabla125*


oh because on newegg i only see the 8120 and 6100


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=1239958

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...961&CatId=1946


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


im curious about this as well


I would even suggest combining turning off one core per module and disabling the L3 cache. That would give people possibly AMD's best CPU yet. Higher IPC per core with 8 MB of L2 cache (2 MB per core), and bypassing the high latency of the L3 cache. The L2 cache also has a higher latency than the Phenom II (see Anandtech's review), but bypassing the L3 cache would certainly help, as I doubt a quad core has any use for 16 MB of cache. The Core 2 Quad Q9xxx series has 12 MB of L2 but that is because it has to work with a comparatively slower FSB technology.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


No, Trinity is Bulldozer based, Llano was Phenom II based (or Athlon II, can't remember which)

According to roadmaps, we won't see Piledriver until 2013 which will be followed by excavator in 2014

EDIT: Yikes, I take that back. Trinity is Piledriver based. Sorry. In any regard, this arch needs to be fixed. Piledriver is still built on Bulldozer.

EDIT 2: I really need to read better. Piledriver 2012, Steamroller 2013, Excavator 2014


BDs issues right now are down to software, power consumption and cache.

There's evidence to suggest that the power consumption may actually just be the CHV motherboard.
The software will be fixed by years end and the cache shouldn't be too hard to fix, some people in the community are saying that BD got delayed because AMD wanted to work more on Piledriver and that it's a pipecleaner product to see what the architecture does. (See: HD4770 to see how 40nm does)

It kinda makes sense, I mean nVidia did similar with the GTX4x0 series and how many people complain about those now?


----------



## RoddimusPrime

Well now I am unsure about the second build I was going to do. Dollar for follar BD does not seem worth it even compared to the prior generation chips.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


BDs issues right now are down to software, power consumption and cache.

There's evidence to suggest that the power consumption may actually just be the CHV motherboard.
The software will be fixed by years end and the cache shouldn't be too hard to fix, some people in the community are saying that BD got delayed because AMD wanted to work more on Piledriver and that it's a pipecleaner product to see what the architecture does. (See: HD4770 to see how 40nm does)

It kinda makes sense, I mean nVidia did similar with the GTX4x0 series and how many people complain about those now?










I'm hoping. I don't have a dire need to upgrade right now. I'm gonna wait a few weeks and see how things play out. Really the only thing stopping me from purchasing BD now is the power consumption. I'm already running a Crossfire setup with a sound card, SSD, and 4 hard drives. Not sure if my 750W PSU can handle BD yet.


----------



## Brutuz

Go Sandy Bridge or Thuban, two best chips on the market today IMO.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brutuz*


Go Sandy Bridge or Thuban, two best chips on the market today IMO.


Spent the money on 990FX, so I'm staying AMD. If there's no light at the end of the tunnel in a month or so, I'll grab an 1100t to hold me over for the next year. My 955 is fine for everything I do now, except maybe a little more speed in video editing.


----------



## Da1Nonly

Good read regarding bulldozer.

AMD Ex-Employee speaks out!

http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads...ee-speaks-out/


----------



## Brutuz

Already been posted in here.


----------



## Nikkopo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Da1Nonly*


Good read regarding bulldozer.

AMD Ex-Employee speaks out!

http://www.insideris.com/amd-spreads...ee-speaks-out/


That is as reliable as everything else without a source on the internet.

This could have been written by a lonely man sitting in his mothers basement eating icecream


----------



## 2010rig

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Nikkopo*   JF-AMD hasn't wrote in this thread yet even tho he's been online?
At least AMD should somewhere have a little congress explaining why Zambezi turned out to be junk.

This feels like a "small electronic store" scam. They hype you up with all information, making you wanna buy it soooo bad and you wait for it forever, and then when it arrives (you buy it from the small electronic store", they just take off and you never see them again, and what you got just sucks and you got totally scammed.

-Metaphor  
In the words of Heavy_MG.... QFT

Have you read what AMD has put out? This is a classic case of over-hype and under deliver. I'm a marketer and it makes my stomach turn to read this.

Press Release:
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsr.../newsroom.aspx

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...id=Get_8_Cores



I hope more people report and flag this misleading video.

  
 You Tube  



 
 Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *jck*   Honestly, he's said it more than once: Zambezi/FX is not JF-AMD's product line for which he is Director of Marketing.

You expecting him to speak for FX is like expecting Admin or Chipp to speak for Overclockers.com.

They are both rooted in the same basic technical foundation, but not the same product.

Honestly, give the guy a rest. He's put up with more FX-hating BS from people than he should ever have to, considering it's not what he gets paid for.  
I urge you to read JF-AMD's posts again, such as this one, this doesn't imply like he doesn't know what he's talking about. 
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

It may not be his product line, but he sure did a good job of discrediting all the REAL benchmarks that were leaked, and deemed them as fake, not indicative of final performance, etc. etc.

I agree that we shouldn't personally attack him, but we do have a right to question the things he said. He seems like a nice guy, but you can't deny that he mislead us.

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *pcclock*   Yea and you just believe that?

Btw since when is disabling 4 cores on an 8core a good thing? Than buying a PII would be a better idea. Especially since they would be MUCH cheaper.
And if it doesn't even beat a "2500K", not even near, as the post says. Why would you even want it? The BD is really expensive now. So more money and less performance? Is that a good thing? No, of course not!

*And what about the FX4100s than? If disabling 4 cores on your 8core would do something. The FX4100 series are known to be much worse than the old PII even. What about the FX4100s?*  
on the FX4100 you would turn it into a Dual Core, win?

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Amor*   EDIT: @ pcclock: Then why is it the first thing some people do is disable hyperthreading on their i7's for "Better game performance"? Granted AMD's approach to "HT" is a bit backwards but I think it might be the way of the future just looking at the "multi threading matrix" diagram that's fairly common (this one if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about).  
If people are buying a chip for gaming, they're buying the 2500K. Only people who buy the 2600K are doing so for multi-threaded apps.

HT is backwards? yet it's out-performing the Matrix you're talking about?









Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*   Many still think Ivy will bring 6 cores to 1155. 6 cores + 10% better IPC makes for an even better chip.  
No it won't, IB-E will bring 8 cores most likely. If you want a 6 core, you gotta go SB-E.

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Brutuz*   It kinda makes sense, I mean nVidia did similar with the GTX4x0 series and how many people complain about those now?







  
I still have one of those initial _failed _Fermi cards, and so do you. I don't need a software fix to run it, power consumption and heat is fine, I've yet to see my card go past 70C on full load, overclocking and performance is GREAT.

Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant, they're not even in the same category. The Power Consumption was the only thing blown way out of proportion, the performance was there, however.

First Article running 3 Video Cards. 
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/43...ad/index1.html


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


In the words of Heavy_MG.... QFT

Have you read what AMD has put out? This is a classic case of over-hype and under deliver. I'm a marketer and it makes my stomach turn to read this.

Press Release:
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsr.../newsroom.aspx

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...id=Get_8_Cores



I hope more people report and flag this misleading video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk

I urge you to read JF-AMD's posts again, such as this one, this doesn't imply like he doesn't know what he's talking about. 
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html

It may not be his product line, but he sure did a good job of discrediting all the REAL benchmarks that were leaked, and deemed them as fake, not indicative of final performance, etc. etc.

I agree that we shouldn't personally attack him, but we do have a right to question the things he said. He seems like a nice guy, but you can't deny that he mislead us.

on the FX4100 you would turn it into a Dual Core, win?

If people are buying a chip for gaming, they're buying the 2500K. Only people who buy the 2600K are doing so for multi-threaded apps.

HT is backwards? yet it's out-performing the Matrix you're talking about?









No it won't, IB-E will bring 8 cores most likely. If you want a 6 core, you gotta go SB-E.

I still have one of those initial _failed _Fermi cards, and so do you. I don't need a software fix to run it, power consumption and heat is fine, I've yet to see my card go past 70C on full load, overclocking and performance is GREAT.

Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant, they're not even in the same category. The Power Consumption was the only thing blown way out of proportion, the performance was there, however.


*Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant*

Everyone has there dark days man, fermi is better now but i'd stick with my 6950. I will admit both have there strong suits.

Sometimes, just like in this case we have to swallow our pride. I think the idea of bulldozer isn't a failure, like was said in that above post. Amd had to release something, that something wasn't really prepared. You may have been mislead in a way but you have to remember there was a ton of pressure on amd to release a product that was obviously not quite ready for the enthusist market. I think that amd like all companies needed to push a little more proganda since It would have been there best market stratagy to at least sell a handfull of these chips. The benchs may or may not improve but it is more than most need as I have stated before.

I know that intels flagship is a better performance chip, I have thought of going that route before since it was taking what seemed a lifetime to get nothing to crazy outta AMD.

However,
Me as the consumer will stick with them throught the dark days and upgrade to the bulldozer since they could use a sale or 5. Just as many intel guys would do for their sillicon hero's. The hope that something could come out in the near future and make a equal market to help intel's obvious price hikes would help. As for now intel will compete with themselves to provide a product that I hope many people will enjoy, just as I will enjoy what was dished out to me.


----------



## StepanPepan

Has JF since launch said anything here (or elsewhere)?

I cannot read all this exploded thread, so if anybody knows, please tell me.


----------



## MojoW

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


*Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant*

Everyone has there dark days man, fermi is better now but i'd stick with my 6950. I will admit both have there strong suits.

Sometimes, just like in this case we have to swallow our pride. I think the idea of bulldozer isn't a failure, like was said in that above post. Amd had to release something, that something wasn't really prepared. You may have been mislead in a way but you have to remember there was a ton of pressure on amd to release a product that was obviously not quite ready for the enthusist market. I think that amd like all companies needed to push a little more proganda since It would have been there best market stratagy to at least sell a handfull of these chips. The benchs may or may not improve but it is more than most need as I have stated before.

I know that intels flagship is a better performance chip, I have thought of going that route before since it was taking what seemed a lifetime to get nothing to crazy outta AMD.

However,
Me as the consumer will stick with them throught the dark days and upgrade to the bulldozer since they could use a sale or 5. Just as many intel guys would do for their sillicon hero's. The hope that something could come out in the near future and make a equal market to help intel's obvious price hikes would help. As for now intel will compete with themselves to provide a product that I hope many people will enjoy, just as I will enjoy what was dished out to me.


yep this i'm with ya


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


*Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant*

Everyone has there dark days man, fermi is better now but i'd stick with my 6950. I will admit both have there strong suits.

Sometimes, just like in this case we have to swallow our pride. I think the idea of bulldozer isn't a failure, like was said in that above post. Amd had to release something, that something wasn't really prepared. You may have been mislead in a way but you have to remember there was a ton of pressure on amd to release a product that was obviously not quite ready for the enthusist market. I think that amd like all companies needed to push a little more proganda since It would have been there best market stratagy to at least sell a handfull of these chips. The benchs may or may not improve but it is more than most need as I have stated before.

I know that intels flagship is a better performance chip, I have thought of going that route before since it was taking what seemed a lifetime to get nothing to crazy outta AMD.

However,
Me as the consumer will stick with them throught the dark days and upgrade to the bulldozer since they could use a sale or 5. Just as many intel guys would do for their sillicon hero's. The hope that something could come out in the near future and make a equal market to help intel's obvious price hikes would help. As for now intel will compete with themselves to provide a product that I hope many people will enjoy, just as I will enjoy what was dished out to me.


I'm glad you're brave enough to still stick with AMD.

There's still the possibility of them fixing what ever is wrong, I haven't written them off yet, 'cuz I'm gonna wait for SB-E to come out. That gives them a month to releases patches, fixes, a BIOS, or what ever they need.

Bulldozer has potential, it's just the way this launch was handled was poor to say the least. Their over-hyped marketing is very misleading, us enthusiasts know better, but the 80% un-informed masses will get sucked in.


----------



## MadGoat

Just seems like bulldozer is being limited by something other than is own capabilities.

Every test shows bulldozer's performance hit a wall. And regardless of clock speed, resolution, or what have you... it maintains this level of performance.

It just seems there is more to the story somewhere. Platform / chipset maybe...

Im personally very sad that bulldozer has such a hard time performing. I was (as im sure many, MANY where) hoping it would be a solid performer. Didn't think it was going to top the charts... i think most of us felt that. I just had a feeling it was going to be a brute force jack of all trades type of processor.

But it isn't... and in all reality its broken in some way. I think most of us now want to know "What" is broken. What exactly is the fundamental reason why a 2billion transistor part is such a sketch performer...

Just wanna know why... We've excepted the death.... now we want the details.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I still have one of those initial _failed _Fermi cards, and so do you. I don't need a software fix to run it, power consumption and heat is fine, I've yet to see my card go past 70C on full load, overclocking and performance is GREAT.

Comparing BD to Initial Fermi is redundant, they're not even in the same category. The Power Consumption was the only thing blown way out of proportion, the performance was there, however.


Except it seems like that once you factor in the software part of the equation, performance is somewhat there for BD...And yes, you do need a software fix. It's called driver updates, you're not running launch drivers, are you? The 260 (iirc anyway) drivers offered a pretty big performance boost for GF100 cards, and current evidence suggests CHV boards may have a power consumption bug, read the hardwarecanucks review.

Also, your Fermi runs below 70c due to the cooler, they all put out a crapload of heat, the temperature is useless without all the variables, the Fermi cooler is insanely good for a stock cooler. If I could mount it on my GTX 275 I'd probably get better temps than the current TwinFrozr I cooler on it...And for comparison, my card gets to 92c load when I OV and OC it, around 87c load before all that but with a lower fan speed.

Bulldozer, as I see it, is a pipe cleaner product, while AMD hyped it up (As would nVidia...As would Intel, although AMD do take hits at other companies more often) as the main chip, in reality the main BD style chip at the moment is Piledriver with BD launching early to give all the software developers something to optimize for, so Piledriver has a more even playing field.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MadGoat*


Just seems like bulldozer is being limited by something other than is own capabilities.

Every test shows bulldozer's performance hit a wall. And regardless of clock speed, resolution, or what have you... it maintains this level of performance.

It just seems there is more to the story somewhere. Platform / chipset maybe...

Im personally very sad that bulldozer has such a hard time performing. I was (as im sure many, MANY where) hoping it would be a solid performer. Didn't think it was going to top the charts... i think most of us felt that. I just had a feeling it was going to be a brute force jack of all trades type of processor.

But it isn't... and in all reality its broken in some way. I think most of us now want to know "What" is broken. What exactly is the fundamental reason why a 2billion transistor part is such a sketch performer...

Just wanna know why... We've excepted the death.... now we want the details.


Cache size and latency, I bet Piledrivers main differing feature will be more L1 cache and faster L2 and possibly L3 cache.


----------



## Bloodcore

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/13...ake-on-amd-fx/
That benchmark.. how accurate is it?









*edit; That link was posted on their facebook 15 minutes ago.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD*

By now youâ€™ve heard that we proudly launched our AMD FX CPU yesterday. Comments and questions have run the gamut, and we want help you make sense of the new processors. Our product manager, Adam Kozak, just posted on the benefits and challenges of the product - we invite you to join in the conversation: http://bit.ly/p2UKDb.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


^this = thank you...wasen't going to respond to the guy lol


Lol, now you're just making stuff up. Especially the HT stuff.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloodcore*


http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/13...ake-on-amd-fx/
That benchmark.. how accurate is it?

*edit; That link was posted on their facebook 15 minutes ago.


That is just laughable. Its not accurate.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


The Piledriver Blog is Live, Is what we need.


why not

ohh and btw .. i wouldnt mind having detail on the new decoupled prefetcher and prediction algorythm amd used

if they can even get into those details for us


----------



## enzote2

I have one question . Is AMD planning to stay with AM3 + socket ?


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I urge you to read JF-AMD's posts again, such as this one, this doesn't imply like he doesn't know what he's talking about. 
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...aunch-faq.html


I'm not going back and reading 16 months of posts. I don't have time to do that. Sorry.

Quote:



It may not be his product line, but he sure did a good job of discrediting all the REAL benchmarks that were leaked, and deemed them as fake, not indicative of final performance, etc. etc.


You call them real. Define "REAL".

Did those benchmarks come with CPU serials that showed they were the same processor stepping as the production chips that AMD provided the tech review sites for the launch date?

Quote:



I agree that we shouldn't personally attack him, but we do have a right to question the things he said. He seems like a nice guy, but you can't deny that he mislead us.


Misled? I saw someone that tried to caution you not to believe information coming from non-official channels.

I went to that first post you quoted and looked for the word "real"...here's what the search found:

_"Why are you arguing about benchmarks that probably aren't real?"_

He never said they are not. He said they *probably* are not. Two different things. First one implies certainty. Second implies possibility.

If you were looking at buying a car that was coming out next model year, and some guy from Korea said he had one and could tell you it didn't do as well as a competing brand fuel economy wise and showed you pics of the gas gauges and odometers...would you believe him? Or, wait for fuel economy numbers from the manufacturer and a review from someone like Car and Driver who has pics of the car to prove they have it without blurring anything?

I have a problem with no one questioning John in a courteous, professional manner about anything he's stated. But (not pointing any fingers), there are several people here who act like they are the next coming of popular pitbull talkshow host and have a right to interrogate him like he's responsible to answer to them on demand.

The guy is doing us a favor being here. He never said they are not real, he just said they probably are not.

You take that to mean he is saying they are not.

I took that to mean beware, because they probably aren't.

See how different perceptions happen?

Anyways...I have to go. I'm working on 2 software projects and this has taken about 10 minutes for me to do (in between phone calls and people popping in my office).

I'm not telling you not to call into question things, but being bullish rather than inquisitive...doesn't exactly lay the groundwork for a positive, amiable rapport.

Anyways...I hate angst, and one of the smokers just walked by my office and now I'm smelling cigarettes. So, I best drink more diet cola and eat a peppermint and write a VB.NET app to make finance happy. lol


----------



## MadGoat

They better stick with AM3+ after this release... If they release the next processor on a different platform im almost positive they will lose every desktop system consumer.

I know if I don't get a better performing processor release for my board, and they change platforms... i wont stay with them. I'll be saying hello to intel for the first time.


----------



## Seronx

All you guys need to know


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bloodcore*


http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/13...ake-on-amd-fx/
That benchmark.. how accurate is it?









*edit; That link was posted on their facebook 15 minutes ago.


See what I mean, they CONTINUE to be deceptive.

Quote:



Hereâ€™s some example scenarios where the AMD FX processor shines:

Playing the Latest Games

A perfect example is Battlefield 3. Take a look at how our test of AMD FX CPU compared to the Core i7 2600K and AMD Phenomâ„¢ II X6 1100T processors at full settings:


Ever heard of a GPU bottleneck? Might want to explain that to your readers.

Anand gives a good explanation of this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AnandTech*

*Civilization V*

Civ V's lateGameView benchmark presents us with two separate scores: average frame rate for the entire test as well as a no-render score that only looks at CPU performance.

While we're GPU bound in the full render score, AMD's platform appears to have a bit of an advantage here. We've seen this in the past where one platform will hold an advantage over another in a GPU bound scenario and it's always tough to explain. Within each family however there is no advantage to a faster CPU, everything is just GPU bound.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *AnandTech*

Looking at the no render score, the CPU standings are pretty much as we'd expect. The FX-8150 is thankfully a bit faster than its predecessors, but it still falls behind Sandy Bridge.


----------



## yukon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











All you guys need to know


How many post are we going to get from you like this? Dry up your eyes and move on man. Theres no sense in beating a dead horse.


----------



## Fr0sty

enough with the trolling seronx


----------



## kzone75

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*











All you guys need to know


Think I've seen that pic a couple of times already..


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


How many post are we going to get from you like this? Dry up your eyes and move on man. Theres no sense in beating a dead horse.


A fraudulent horse must be beatin hard


----------



## flashtest

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd...ing,13701.html

Interesting point of view that i tend to agree with.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


A fraudulent horse must be beatin hard










give it a rest man ... seriously .. don't buy their product if you dont like em ...


----------



## Obakemono

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31...lldozer-inside


----------



## pcclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


See what I mean, they CONTINUE to be deceptive.


Yea it seems thats the way to sell it. Like the 980X thing. Completely ridicules.

I wonder though, will people buy that?

Everyone knows the truth by now, everyone has seen the benches. Or at least hear about it. Its a terrible cpu.


----------



## Fr0sty

if bf3 performance are that good then there is really nothing to complain from my part


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


if bf3 performance are that good then there is really nothing to complain from my part


Fr0sty

http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm
Download it and upload the results =.=


----------



## Zackcy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31...lldozer-inside


A 1100T would not finish that close to a 2600k. What type of system was this?

EDIT: "An AMD GPU" is not specific enough.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Edit: first Linux benches i have seen so far:http://static.pcinpact.com/images/bd...104105-tab.png


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a decent improvement over what we're seeing on Windows? Its single-threaded performance is just about equal to Thuban, despite being clocked 300MHz higher (then again, BD OCs better too). If the results are similar in Cinebench, the 8150 will actually beat the 2600k in rendering. That's a big deal.

If this is what we're going to be seeing in the near future on Windows, I am less disappoint. But I still am somewhat disappoint.


----------



## Panickypress

This is kind of like the new release of an Edsel!! (if you know cars) nothing measuring it's performance is really up to date with the technology... i'm getting this thing no matter how many people not knowing anything at this time, but from reading websites says it sucks


----------



## Schmuckley

i'm getting an fx4100..because: 
a)no way it can draw as much power as the 8150
b)NOT shelling out $200 for a cpu i KNOW is not as good as one i have 
c)gotta play with something new


----------



## Cyclonic

Still no Jf AMD







People are chasing him with torches maybe lol xD


----------



## oicw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd...ing,13701.html

Interesting point of view that i tend to agree with.


If expecting a brand new architecture to be faster than one that was brought out 3 years ago (Deneb), then yes, perhaps we all expected too much









However, I can't think of a time when this happened at Intel, even with Netburst. Netburst IPC was slow compared to Athlon, but it wasn't up to, and over 40% slower than a Pentium III.

Just to remind everyone again how bad FX's IPC is:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-3.html

Were we really expecting too much? Or AMD expecting too little from enthusiasts?


----------



## Schmuckley

i seriously don't think consumers are wrong to expect something better than the previous architectures after a 3 year wait


----------



## fxvish

GLAD I STUCK WITH DECISION TO PURCHASE i7 2600K.

BD did not live upto the hype and expectations !!!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...-fx8150-tested
__________________


----------



## MaCk-AtTaCk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic;15296021*
> Still no Jf AMD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People are chasing him with torches maybe lol xD


Yeah well Im guessing he prob wont ever come back. I mean the guy straight up lied about BD performance (specifically "IPC increases" comments) . In my eyes he should be banned from this site.


----------



## jck

^^ Bad request when link clicked (in fxvish's post)


----------



## StraightSixZ

thats just what i wanted to hear, ownage in bf3 albeit only 1 fps more


----------



## blabla125

hey guys does any one remember that part in this thread and then "movieman" said that is would be good it was a quite from another well know forum


----------



## WMW

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2011/10/13/amd-now-verging-on-irrelvancy-analyst-says/


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flashtest;15295542*
> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-fx-8150-cpu-launch-marketing,13701.html
> 
> Interesting point of view that i tend to agree with.


Good share, thanks.

We were not expecting too much, why?

1. AMD said this would be the fastest CPU core in HISTORY, in both Multi-Thread and single threaded.

2. They brought back the FX moniker, hinting at sheer domination.

3. Everything they ever released showed Bulldozer would Bulldoze over the competition, heck, they are even saying it now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15295599*
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/315805-28-bought-bulldozer-inside


I suggest you read this, again, and again, and again, until you can understand what a GPU bottleneck is.








http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/791495-bulldozer-blog-live-260.html#post15295465

If you want to buy a processor for GPU bound scenarios, you're golden, just don't forget that higher Power Consumption.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcclock;15295607*
> Yea it seems thats the way to sell it. Like the 980X thing. Completely ridicules.
> 
> I wonder though, will people buy that?
> 
> Everyone knows the truth by now, everyone has seen the benches. Or at least hear about it. Its a terrible cpu.


Unfortunately, the enthusiasts are the ones that know the truth. The average Joe doesn't do research, read reviews or anything. They see 8 cores @ 3.6GHZ, compare it to 4 cores @ 3.4GHZ. This amounts to 80% of the market.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley;15296015*
> i'm getting an fx4100..because:
> a)no way it can draw as much power as the 8150
> b)NOT shelling out $200 for a cpu i KNOW is not as good as one i have
> c)gotta play with something new


Congratulations on your downgrade.











http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx-8150--8120-6100-and-4100-performance-review/1


----------



## Seronx

Things I have found out

K15 is K10.5.1
K10.5 is K10.5.0
K10 is K10.0.0

The idea of duplicating certain things is to reduce overall temperature while reducing overall performance
Proof: The L1/L2 caches

K10.5.1 8-core will never out perform a K10.5 8-core if the ISAs are the same
( K10.5.1 8-core being 1x will always be out performed by K10.5 8-core being 2x)

My only question for AMD is who was smoking the pot?


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15296612*
> My only question for AMD is who was smoking the pot?


That's under NDA and highly confidential.


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;15296663*
> That's under NDA and highly confidential.


That NDA lifts on April 20th though.


----------



## kzone75

@Seronx How good is that Passmark bench compaired to the other ones? The 8150 on that list wasn't there earlier today..


----------



## oicw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15296684*
> That NDA lifts on April 20th though.


It lifts, when it lifts.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15293243*
> No, Trinity is Bulldozer based, Llano was Phenom II based (or Athlon II, can't remember which)
> 
> According to roadmaps, we won't see Piledriver until 2013 which will be followed by excavator in 2014
> 
> EDIT: Yikes, I take that back. Trinity is Piledriver based. Sorry. In any regard, this arch needs to be fixed. Piledriver is still built on Bulldozer.
> 
> EDIT 2: I really need to read better. Piledriver 2012, Steamroller 2013, Excavator 2014


Hopefully Piledriver will be what Bulldozer was supposed to be.
With how bulldozer ended up,it seems to live up to its name. A Bulldozer can't move very fast,but when it pushes a full load,it can move a lot of dirt.
But,Phenom II is faster than the current BD architecture,so Phenom II is more "epically strong man with a shovel".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15293869*
> Spent the money on 990FX, so I'm staying AMD. If there's no light at the end of the tunnel in a month or so, I'll grab an 1100t to hold me over for the next year. My 955 is fine for everything I do now, except maybe a little more speed in video editing.


If the video editing program can use 6 cores,then a 1100T would be a nice upgrade,also with a 990FX you would get an easy 4Ghz with upwards of a 2800Mhz NB.


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15296684*
> That NDA lifts on April 20th though.


At 4:20 pm.


----------



## radaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicw;15296773*
> It lifts, when it lifts.


nope,pot nda's always lift on April 20th at 4:20AM and again at 4:20PM for good measure


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;15296771*
> @Seronx How good is that Passmark bench compaired to the other ones? The 8150 on that list wasn't there earlier today..


It shows potential peak of performance so in potential peak it is pretty much equal to an 8(2x4) core Deneb Opteron










3.1GHz 2x4-Core vs 3.9GHz 1x8-core isn't a pretty picture


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15295694*
> Fr0sty
> 
> http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm
> Download it and upload the results =.=


i dont have my bulldozer yet .. i just pulled the trigger yesterday .. and i couldnt care less about passmark and sysmark and all .. if it get the job done on bf3 im happy

simple as that


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15297191*
> i dont have my bulldozer yet .. i just pulled the trigger yesterday .. and i couldnt care less about passmark and sysmark and all .. if it get the job done on bf3 im happy
> 
> simple as that


If BF3 was your sole choice for picking Bulldozer, well ANY CPU could've got the job done.

BF3 is limited by the GPU









Even a GTX 580 at HIGH bottlenecks the CPUs


----------



## swindle

Lol


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15297191*
> i dont have my bulldozer yet .. i just pulled the trigger yesterday .. and i couldnt care less about passmark and sysmark and all .. if it get the job done on bf3 im happy
> 
> simple as that


I wouldn't be happy that a FX-8120 plays BF3 worse than my previous Phenom II while being MORE expensive and consuming MORE electricity from the wall.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15295694*
> Fr0sty
> 
> http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm
> Download it and upload the results =.=


Here is my results


----------



## Fr0sty

so ill be happy with my setup then

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15297233*
> I wouldn't be happy that a FX-8120 plays BF3 worse than my previous Phenom II while being MORE expensive and consuming MORE electricity from the wall.


unlike you i didnt get a thuban ... i had a crappy 550 BE unlocked into a x3 .. + cheapo onboard gpu ... so my rig is an upgrade


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15295880*
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a decent improvement over what we're seeing on Windows? Its single-threaded performance is just about equal to Thuban, despite being clocked 300MHz higher (then again, BD OCs better too). If the results are similar in Cinebench, the 8150 will actually beat the 2600k in rendering. That's a big deal.
> 
> If this is what we're going to be seeing in the near future on Windows, I am less disappoint. But I still am somewhat disappoint.


Bump because no one seems to care that it's quite possible that the people talking about software problems could be right.


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15297263*
> Bump because no one seems to care that it's quite possible that the people talking about software problems could be right.


AMD (i think it was) said that Bulldozer will be better utilized in windows 8. I think what we are seeing with the BD results is a software issue and I think AMD might have to put together a software / driver package like they did with the Athlon 64 x2. Dual Core Optimizer


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15297263*
> Bump because no one seems to care that it's quite possible that the people talking about software problems could be right.


I care. I was thinking that also, when I started to read the benchies. But I didn't want to say anything. Because noone cares what I think.








Very high possibility, me thinks.


----------



## pcclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaCk-AtTaCk;15296132*
> Yeah well Im guessing he prob wont ever come back. I mean the guy straight up lied about BD performance (specifically "IPC increases" comments) . In my eyes he should be banned from this site.


Yea I agree. Pretty upset about it too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15296312*
> Unfortunately, the enthusiasts are the ones that know the truth. The average Joe doesn't do research, read reviews or anything. They see 8 cores @ 3.6GHZ, compare it to 4 cores @ 3.4GHZ. This amounts to 80% of the market.


Well I do must say the average joe could/would easily be informed, even if he isn't an enthusiast himself. I know for example some good review sites and mags and stuff that gets read by the average joe. They would probably be informed pretty quick about it.

Plus if you would work in a PC store, what would you recommend? A crappy cpu or a better one? You know.

AMD may lie about everything but that doesn't mean everyone else will.









And also the "internet", news spreads very fast. Look at this forum topic along.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15297257*
> so ill be happy with my setup then
> 
> unlike you i didnt get a thuban ... i had a crappy 550 BE unlocked into a x3 .. + cheapo onboard gpu ... so my rig is an upgrade


I hope you're happy with your FX-8120,because a FX is a upgrade over a 550BE overall,but right now the FX-8150 has lower IPC than a Phenom II.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15297263*
> Bump because no one seems to care that it's quite possible that the people talking about software problems could be right.


It could be software,it might also be the CHV board included in most of the reviewer kits.
Here's a thread on it; http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1141188-asus-crosshair-v-formula-board-may.html
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15297254*
> Here is my results


Not bad! Here's mine @ stock with a NB OC @ 2800Mhz,FF and a few other apps were still running.
@ anyone who has a FX 8xxx,I'd like to see you run Passmark to compare.


----------



## Benz

John is nowhere to be seen, he's probably embarrassed.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15297788*
> John is nowhere to be seen, he's probably embarrassed.


Pfft, He'll probs try get this thread closed down, Just to save him from giving us answers...


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

It's software issue, would be my guess, as one reveiwer showed one core gets smacked hard and the rest are sitting at under 50% means something isn't getting scheduled to the core properly. the circuitry cant do anything more than what it's told by a program.

the circuitry is not at fault here it's a program issue.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benz;15297788*
> John is nowhere to be seen, he's probably embarrassed.


I'd guess he is tired of taking crap from people,JF's PM inbox is probably full too.
I see you are disappointed of FX too,evident by your sig,why didn't you switch sooner? Or was your cousin feeding you false info that kept you from switching sooner? I'm just wondering.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15297340*
> AMD (i think it was) said that Bulldozer will be better utilized in windows 8. I think what we are seeing with the BD results is a software issue and I think AMD might have to put together a software / driver package like they did with the Athlon 64 x2. Dual Core Optimizer


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;15297342*
> I care. I was thinking that also, when I started to read the benchies. But I didn't want to say anything. Because noone cares what I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very high possibility, me thinks.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15297640*
> I hope you' happy with your FX-8120,because a FX is a upgrade over a 550BE overall,but right now the FX-8150 has lower IPC than a Phenom II.
> It could be software,it might also be the CHV board included in most of the reviewer kits.
> Here's a thread on it; http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/1141188-asus-crosshair-v-formula-board-may.html


I've spoken to a programmer (not even a remotely well-known person, but a professional programmer nonetheless) who agrees that Bulldozer is probably not being properly utilized even with current instruction sets. Also remember that with FMA and XOP instructions, theoretically IPC should DOUBLE.

The CHV could be holding back the FX. I've also heard it could be responsible for the insane power draw. I'm not counting on a "magic BIOS", but I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of an improvement.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR;15297879*
> It's software issue, would be my guess, as one reveiwer showed one core gets smacked hard and the rest are sitting at under 50% means something isn't getting scheduled to the core properly. the circuitry cant do anything more than what it's told by a program.
> 
> the circuitry is not at fault here it's a program issue.


Much more conclusive evidence. Thanks.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR;15297879*
> It's software issue, would be my guess, as one reveiwer showed one core gets smacked hard and the rest are sitting at under 50% means something isn't getting scheduled to the core properly. the circuitry cant do anything more than what it's told by a program.
> 
> the circuitry is not at fault here it's a program issue.


I'll just quote this for future reference.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15297898*
> I've spoken to a programmer (not even a remotely well-known person, but a professional programmer nonetheless) who agrees that Bulldozer is probably not being properly utilized even with current instruction sets. Also remember that with FMA and XOP instructions, theoretically IPC should DOUBLE.
> 
> The CHV could be holding back the FX. I've also heard it could be responsible for the insane power draw. I'm not counting on a "magic BIOS", but I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of an improvement.
> 
> Much more conclusive evidence. Thanks.


The reactions that I am seeing here on OCN are childish and immature at best concerning BD. I guess that people did not realize is the fact that BD is something that has not been done yet, so why would anyone put BD on such a high pedestal? Maybe AMD did know about this issue until is was too late (launch date). I don't see Intel trying this new approach to CPU making. I know they have 3d transistors coming soon (and BTW, 3d transistors were not Intel's idea, they only are able to bring it to market). Software is always behind the hardware, and that is a fact that has been known for years. I think the next few weeks we will see what exactly happened.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15297999*
> The reactions that I am seeing here on OCN are childish and immature at best concerning BD. I guess that people did not realize is the fact that BD is something that has not been done yet, so why would anyone put BD on such a high pedestal? Maybe AMD did know about this issue until is was too late (launch date). I don't see Intel trying this new approach to CPU making. I know they have 3d transistors coming soon (and BTW, 3d transistors were not Intel's idea, they only are able to bring it to market). Software is always behind the hardware, and that is a fact that has been known for years. I think the next few weeks we will see what exactly happened.


People have every right to be upset, and we're not 100% certain that it's a software problem. It still could be that the hardware scheduler and the cache just suck.

But I do agree that after the initial shock and disappointment some critical thinking would be nice.


----------



## Seronx

Pentium 4:
Software optimization needed to get good performance
Bad IPC
Two Fast ALUs that can fuse into one Slow ALUs
Replay System
Double Clocked ALUs
Long pipe high clock focus
etc, etc.

Zambezi:
Software Optimization needed to get good performance
Bad IPC
Two Fast FMACs that can fuse into one Slow FMAC
Mildly long pipe

Vishera(Who knows: )
Software Optimization needed to get good performance
Bad IPC
Two Fast FMACs that can fuse into one Slow FMAC
Mildly long pipe and higher clock focus with power consumption going down
Replay System
Double Clocked FMACs
etc, etc.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

I am not disappointed the processor didn't smoke SB, I am dissapointed that it wasn't able to compete with 2600k or 2500k or even a I3 2100 in some cases in some area's. AMD's telling me you have 8 thread-able cores
that means you should compete with a chip with 8 thread-able cores.
this is my issue.
but reveiw after review i seen the 8150 was all over the place testing half decent on one site and absoutely flopping the next.


----------



## cusideabelincoln

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298024*
> But I do agree that after the initial shock and disappointment some critical thinking would be nice.


----------



## Obakemono

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298024*
> People have every right to be upset, and we're not 100% certain that it's a software problem. It still could be that the hardware scheduler and the cache just suck.
> 
> But I do agree that after the initial shock and disappointment some critical thinking would be nice.


Why would people be so upset like I have seen here? I mean, it is a CPU, not something that is going to solve world hunger AND peace.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fr0sty;15297257*
> so ill be happy with my setup then


Probably not, if they add a decent amount of tessellation your gpus are going to fail.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15291667*
> He said IPC increases. In some scenarios there are IPC increases.
> Yes, he's a marketing guy, he stretched the truth as far as it can stretch but at the end of the day its _technically_ true.


No, actually IPS increased simply due to higher clock speeds but, IPC decreased across the board. Unless your refering to SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, AVX, XOP and FMA4 instructions which STARS wasn't able to process at all, then yes. But increasing from 0 to anything in those particular instruction sets isn't relevant.

I hate to use Tom's for anything, but this particular chart is spot on and I'm in a hurry to get back to work.


----------



## Lucky 13 SpeedShop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15291667*
> He said IPC increases. In some scenarios there are IPC increases.
> Yes, he's a marketing guy, he stretched the truth as far as it can stretch but at the end of the day its _technically_ true.


No, actually IPS increased. Simply due to higher clock speeds but, IPC decreased across the board. Unless your refering to SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, AVX, XOP and FMA4 instructions which STARS wasn't able to process at all, then yes. But increasing from 0 to anything in those particular instruction sets isn't relevant.

I hate to use Tom's for anything, but this particular chart is spot on and I'm in a hurry to get back to work.


















It shows clearly that the truth wasn't stretched. It was simply marketing lies outright.


----------



## yukon

I apologize mod's but the intel guy's are annoying


----------



## Slappy Mcgee




----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slappy Mcgee;15298752*


and just edited it again


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;15298713*












i7 3960X blows them all out of the water weird though(Oh ya forgot about Turbo Boost silly me, he he)


----------



## StarDestroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucky 13 SpeedShop;15298678*
> No, actually IPS increased simply due to higher clock speeds but, IPC decreased across the board. Unless your refering to SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, AVX, XOP and FMA4 instructions which STARS wasn't able to process at all, then yes. But increasing from 0 to anything in those particular instruction sets isn't relevant.
> 
> I hate to use Tom's for anything, but this particular chart is spot on and I'm in a hurry to get back to work.


results like that WHACK

what happened AMD, didn't they test and compare it to phenoms and say' hey its slower then old tech, somethings not right'


----------



## Usario

I'd just like to clear up one thing.

Ready?

Bulldozer has much better IPC than Phenom II, and even Sandy Bridge; and JF-AMD never lied.

You're thinking one of the following right now:

"Usario, why you trollin'?"
"Usario, are you the biggest fanboy ever?"

Hear me out.

With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean 12 points in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.

Call me crazy, but once software properly supports Bulldozer I think it will be a great CPU. Does that mean that you should buy Bulldozer today? Not really; might as well wait for Piledriver. Does that mean that Bulldozer is good? Technically, yes; in real world use, at the minute no.


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298864*
> I'd just like to clear up one thing.
> 
> Ready?
> 
> Bulldozer has much better IPC than Phenom II, and even Sandy Bridge; and JF-AMD never lied.
> 
> You're thinking *one* of the following right now:
> 
> "Usario, why you trollin'?"
> *"Usario, are you the biggest fanboy ever?"*
> 
> Hear me out.
> 
> With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean 12 points in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.
> 
> Call me crazy, but once software properly supports Bulldozer I think it will be a great CPU. Does that mean that you should buy Bulldozer today? Not really; might as well wait for Piledriver. Does that mean that Bulldozer is good? Technically, yes; in real world use, at the minute no.


y u so big fan boi


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298864*
> With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean *12 points* in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.


Yea. Right.

Right now the perf per core is basically half that of a 2600k, and the 2600k (well, mine, anyway) pulls 9.06 points.

A Xeon W5590 scores 11.69 (at least thats what CineBench 11.5 says). Your saying that with some software fix this thing is going to magically go from 50% IPC power of intel to 125%?

Seems legit.


----------



## AMDrocks

Has El Gappo said anything about the disabling cores????


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52;15298988*
> Yea. Right.
> 
> Right now the IPC is basically half that of a 2600k, and the 2600k (well, mine, anyway) pulls 9.06 points.
> 
> A Xeon W5590 scores 11.69 (at least thats what CineBench 11.5 says). Your saying that with some software fix this thing is going to magically go from 50% IPC power of intel to 125%?
> 
> Seems legit.


y u have fail 500 gig raid 0


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDrocks;15298995*
> Has El Gappo said anything about the disabling cores????


Honestly i don't think he mentioned any of that. he has a overclock guide up though.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15299005*
> y u have fail 500 gig raid 0


......


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15297999*
> The reactions that I am seeing here on OCN are childish and immature at best concerning BD. I guess that people did not realize is the fact that BD is something that has not been done yet, so why would anyone put BD on such a high pedestal? Maybe AMD did know about this issue until is was too late (launch date). I don't see Intel trying this new approach to CPU making. I know they have 3d transistors coming soon (and BTW, 3d transistors were not Intel's idea, they only are able to bring it to market). Software is always behind the hardware, and that is a fact that has been known for years. I think the next few weeks we will see what exactly happened.


Most of understand something lke Bulldozer has not been done before,but I think we have a reason to be upset about this. Especially with AMD promising a leap in performance with BD,instead we get it falling on it's face and right now it's ending up slower than Phenom II in most cases.

That may be very plausible,BD looked good on paper,dies were already taped out,performance wasn't so great,or AMD's engineers didn't have the funds to finish what they started on the Bulldozer project.

Who came up with with 3D transistors? I have hard something about AMD having a 22nm 3D transistor design before Intel's 22nm IB was mentioned.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52;15298988*
> Yea. Right.
> 
> Right now the IPC is basically half that of a 2600k, and the 2600k (well, mine, anyway) pulls 9.06 points.
> 
> A Xeon W5590 scores 11.69 (at least thats what CineBench 11.5 says). Your saying that with some software fix this thing is going to magically go from 50% IPC power of intel to 125%?
> 
> Seems legit.


Since when is an instruction set a software fix?









Also, key word: at stock.

At stock the 8150 gets 1.0 points single-threaded. 2600k gets 1.6. In multithreaded, 8150 gets 6.0 and 2600k gets 6.9.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15299068*
> Since when is an instruction set a software fix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, key word: at stock.
> 
> At stock the 8150 gets 1.0 points single-threaded. 2600k gets 1.6. In multithreaded, 8150 gets 6.0 and 2600k gets 6.9.












It will only get near the 990X then once the i7 3960X comes out...


----------



## Nocturin

popcorn.jpg

I'm actually really happy to see actual discussions going on









you guys are awesome.

just sayin

all of you

even the whiners

winning!


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15299068*
> Since when is an instruction set a software fix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, key word: at stock.
> 
> At stock the 8150 gets 1.0 points single-threaded. 2600k gets 1.6. In multithreaded, 8150 gets 6.0 and 2600k gets 6.9.


One question as noted in your sig rig.. Does the software fix the fail or the aids or both??


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;15297999*
> *Maybe AMD did know about this issue until is was too late (launch date).*


You mean, all the leaked benchmarks that were real didn't give AMD an indication?

When they promised BD for Q2, and then delayed it, is an indication that they were trying to fix the issues we are seeing TODAY. It's probably why they required new steppings.

To think they're only finding out about the issues on launch day is laughable. You keep telling yourself that though.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15298977*
> y u so big fan boi


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298864*
> I'd just like to clear up one thing.
> 
> Ready?
> 
> Bulldozer has much better IPC than Phenom II, and even Sandy Bridge; and JF-AMD never lied.
> 
> You're thinking one of the following right now:
> 
> "Usario, why you trollin'?"
> "Usario, are you the biggest fanboy ever?"
> 
> Hear me out.
> 
> *With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean 12 points in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.*
> 
> Call me crazy, but once software properly supports Bulldozer I think it will be a great CPU. Does that mean that you should buy Bulldozer today? Not really; might as well wait for Piledriver. Does that mean that Bulldozer is good? Technically, yes; in real world use, at the minute no.


How long will that take to happen, though? Are programmers using it now? Do you have examples? *Curiosity! Curiosity!*

Balla has a good point, to which i normally have a good counter point:

games now, and most programs are still <4 cores. That won't be forever, which is my counterpoint ;.;, but it's still valid D:

putting this in my sig---> buying a rig q2/q3 2012, being a consumer this is going to be awesome! so many possibilites.... HD7000, GTX600, "Piledriver"(worst name ever, shoulda jumped to excavator), IB, Trinity, SB-E.

tis an excited new few quarters!


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin;15299207*
> How long will that take to happen, though? Are programmers using it now? Do you have examples? *Curiosity! Curiosity!*
> 
> Balla has a good point, to which i normally have a good counter point:
> 
> games now, and most programs are still <4 cores. That won't be forever, which is my counterpoint ;.;, but it's still valid D:
> 
> putting this in my sig---> buying a rig q2/q3 2012, being a consumer this is going to be awesome! so many possibilites.... HD7000, GTX600, "Piledriver"(worst name ever, shoulda jumped to excavator), IB, Trinity, SB-E.
> 
> tis an excited new few quarters!


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15299120*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will only get near the 990X then once the i7 3960X comes out...


So over 9 points at stock? Nice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15299155*
> One question as noted in your sig rig.. Does the software fix the fail or the aids or both??


Software enhancements end the fail, Piledriver cures the AIDS.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15298864*
> I'd just like to clear up one thing.
> 
> Ready?
> 
> Bulldozer has much better IPC than Phenom II, and even Sandy Bridge; and JF-AMD never lied.
> 
> You're thinking one of the following right now:
> 
> "Usario, why you trollin'?"
> "Usario, are you the biggest fanboy ever?"
> 
> Hear me out.
> 
> With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean 12 points in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.
> 
> Call me crazy, but once software properly supports Bulldozer I think it will be a great CPU. Does that mean that you should buy Bulldozer today? Not really; might as well wait for Piledriver. Does that mean that Bulldozer is good? Technically, yes; in real world use, at the minute no.


I agree,JF didn't lie,he was talking server numbers,sever applications can actually use all BD cores,and possibly the FMA4 and XOP instruction sets.

With BD's smaller cores,I doubt IPC could improve that much.

But you do have an obvious point that so many seem to miss,once applications are optimized for BD and BD instruction sets can be used,IPC will definitely improve,Cinebench score will jump to at least 9,other testing scores should increase at the least by 30-40%.


----------



## Buckaroo




----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario;15299221*
> So over 9 points at stock? Nice.
> 
> Software enhancements end the fail, Piledriver cures the AIDS.


vwey intwesting, suppose we may be dozing some wabbit's, aids and fail.

I think our opposition can agree that a good amd chip will help things along


----------



## 12Cores

Has anyone seen any overclock results for the FX 6100?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *12Cores*


Has anyone seen any overclock results for the FX 6100?

Thanks in advance!


i think it would be the same as a x8 with 1 module disabled i presume


----------



## ryboto

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


I'd just like to clear up one thing.

Ready?

Bulldozer has much better IPC than Phenom II, and even Sandy Bridge; and JF-AMD never lied.

You're thinking one of the following right now:

"Usario, why you trollin'?"
"Usario, are you the biggest fanboy ever?"

Hear me out.

With FMA4 and XOP instructions, Bulldozer's IPC should just about double. That would mean 12 points in Cinebench at stock clock speeds.

Call me crazy, but once software properly supports Bulldozer I think it will be a great CPU. Does that mean that you should buy Bulldozer today? Not really; might as well wait for Piledriver. Does that mean that Bulldozer is good? Technically, yes; in real world use, at the minute no.


I REAALLY want you to be right, but what about these benchmarks?-

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/17


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryboto;15300266*
> I REAALLY want you to be right, but what about these benchmarks?-
> 
> http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/17


that is actually very interesting.

It does make sense though. 8 integer units on it would make it way fast at integer operations (which according to that site, it does win), but it only has 4 float units, so yea, it looses there.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15300307*
> that is actually very interesting.
> 
> It does make sense though. 8 integer units on it would make it way fast at integer operations (which according to that site, it does win), but it only has 4 float units, so yea, it looses there.


Actually those 8 integer clusters don't do anything for that score it is all floating point










Those are where Integer FP can be executed

Integer Clusters are just for food for the FP


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

blah...my brains have exploded.... this BD mess is too much to handle with out mass amounts of drugs and alcohol... I think I'm going to let BD, and this thread simmer in their own juice's for a while. maybe next month around this time the the problem's(if any) will be found out and AMD will have something in the works to correct it lol. j/k...as soon as this thread pops up in my e-mail ill be racing to OCN.net like a crack fiend looking for mah fix in hopes of some magical fix showing up... I have said it a few times, I don't expect alot from BD, or AMD. but this was just sadistic joke.. somehwere the is an AMD engineer LOL'ing his self to death saying "look at these guys! you would think their world came to an end lol". lol, im done now dont hate to hard lol.


----------



## SCollins

This guy on Tom's hardware has a different looking review, with different mobo.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31...lldozer-inside


----------



## tw33k

I wanna know what board he used


----------



## Buckaroo

Any reviews using a Gigabyte board?


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


bottlenecking guys.....


Yes GPU bottlenecking effects Cinebench scores

good to know.










and

Truecrypt performance










I'd like to note, that not all conditions of the testing are well known.


----------



## swindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SCollins;15300379*
> This guy on Tom's hardware has a different looking review, with different mobo.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/315805-28-bought-bulldozer-inside


Another "review" with a single 6970, I guess? Or did I miss the exact card?

6970 is not enough on its own to give a true result.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swindle;15300509*
> Another "review" with a single 6970, I guess? Or did I miss the exact card?
> 
> 6970 is not enough on its own to give a true result.


It absolutely gives A result, the validity of which is debatable.


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


It's funny how people overlook all the reviews showing the i5 and i7 with dozens or more frame leads over Bulldozer...then they dig up a few benchmarks that are obviously GPU bound and claim victory when the difference is only by a frame or 2.

Quite sad really.


I posted it for discussion. I did not make any claim about what the data actually means.

with bias do you live.

I looked at the truecyrpt and cinebench data myself. a Overclock 500mhz above turbo. seems to net a pretty big increase in performance.Which is odd, becuase in many review BD does not seem to scale this well with clockspeed.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ryboto*


I REAALLY want you to be right, but what about these benchmarks?-

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/17


The ones that paint BD in a negative light are strictly floating point results. About 10% of what most people do is FP-based. Not a big deal, but those results are disappointing... we've seen better from similar benchmarks elsewhere IIRC.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SCollins*


Truecrypt performance











Nice.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

When there was more than one brand choice in the market and everyone purchased based on price vs performance for their needs.

www.amdzone.com


----------



## Don Karnage

2500K @ 4.7Ghz = 7.50 R11.5 Score


----------



## yukon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15300649*
> 2500K @ 4.7Ghz = 7.50 R11.5 Score


Yes, it does..


----------



## SCollins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


Eventually they will run out of wind


I've never seen a rabid fanboy of any type that ever ran out of hot air.

I find the frequency scalling asymetrical, it shouldn't increase performance that much, which leads me to suspect that maybe the turbo core features are not working properly.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gurusan*


It's funny how people overlook all the reviews showing the i5 and i7 with dozens or more frame leads over Bulldozer...then they dig up a few benchmarks that are obviously GPU bound and claim victory when the difference is only by a frame or 2.

Quite sad really.


Its not sad. Some of us actually want to know why it failed so hard. no one is claiming victory. We just one to know WTH is going on with BD. you can call us fan boi's or "sad" if it helps you sleep at night but don't wast your time posting that kind of crap in here. Its so immature it almost hurts.


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15300649*
> 2500K @ 4.7Ghz = 7.50 R11.5 Score


I seriously dont know but Is that good? I get 7.48

I literally started using the main stream benchmarks to compare my setup to BD and SB in these benchmarks. I really think something is up with the BD compatibility with software/bios/setups. I beat it in a lot of the benchmarks as I am sure a lot of other 1090/1100T users do. BD just isnt optimised yet and we might see some larger gains within the next few weeks.

THis talk about it performing better on msi and asrock boards could be an indication too?


----------



## Usario

Does anyone still doubt the power of FMA4?

I hope not.

EDIT: AMD also comes out on top most of the time in AES workloads.


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I only doubt it's usage in common everyday workloads.

Haswell gets the same thing in another 1.75 years, but just like AVX at this point it's absolutely worthless to most of us here.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I only doubt it's usage in common everyday workloads.

Haswell gets the same thing in another 1.75 years, but just like AVX at this point it's absolutely worthless to most of us here.


Just like more than four cores, eh?

Speak for yourself.


----------



## Seronx

OR-B3 or SB-C2

so hard to choose what to wait for both of them are coming Q1-Q2 2012 as well


----------



## BallaTheFeared

I am.

Just like you are.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


OR-B3 or SB-C2

so hard to choose what to wait for both of them are coming Q1-Q2 2012 as well












Isn't the current SB stepping D2?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I am.

Just like you are.


Great.

Thing is, when games start supporting FMA, Bulldozer will have a huge advantage in your workloads too. And AMD will probably still have an advantage over Haswell because Piledriver will be supporting FMA3 and FMA4 while Haswell will only support FMA3.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *66racer*


I seriously dont know but Is that good? I get 7.48

I literally started using the main stream benchmarks to compare my setup to BD and SB in these benchmarks. I really think something is up with the BD compatibility with software/bios/setups. I beat it in a lot of the benchmarks as I am sure a lot of other 1090/1100T users do. BD just isnt optimised yet and we might see some larger gains within the next few weeks.

THis talk about it performing better on msi and asrock boards could be an indication too?


Thuban is no slouch in multithreaded apps.


----------



## JUGGERNAUTXTR

ASUS bios fail?
the BD was given a good reveiw on hardware legion using an asrock fatality.


----------



## Usario

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


Thuban is no slouch in multithreaded apps.


Quite true; I've seen Thuban beat the 2600k.


----------



## Fr0sty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BallaTheFeared*


I only doubt it's usage in common everyday workloads.

Haswell gets the same thing in another 1.75 years, but just like AVX at this point it's absolutely worthless to most of us here.


we might as well stop advances in the tech industry alltogether and wait for software to create it and then we implement it


----------



## BrEnKeR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JUGGERNAUTXTR*


ASUS bios fail?
the BD was given a good reveiw on hardware legion using an asrock fatality.


Not very good for another reviewer: http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...dozer-fx-cpus/

Using Asrock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional


----------



## Canis-X

Sent my 8150 back today. Couldn't even stomach opening the package, just refused delivery and sent it back......sigh. I'd get a 2600K and a mobo today if I could afford it.


----------



## Seronx

You Tube


----------



## BallaTheFeared

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fr0sty*


we might as well stop advances in the tech industry alltogether and wait for software to create it and then we implement it


Or you could buy it once support does arrive....

Logic.

No sense purchasing something that supports unsupported instructions, until those instructions are actually a factor.

Legacy software, such as games isn't going to support the new code anyways, and nothing coming out currently will either. It will be quite some time, probably a year or more before the new instructions have support. That is assuming anyone writes code to support them considering how minute AMD's market shares are, it doesn't really make a whole not of sense to write said code when only a fraction of the market will actually be able to use it.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Thread re opened, now please keep the discussion civil, on topic, and keep the swearing out.









We shouldn't need to lock this and continue cleaning this thread now that BD is out.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*






















I don't understand your post. Elaborate please.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


Thread re opened, now please keep the discussion civil, on topic, and keep the swearing out.









We shouldn't need to lock this and continue cleaning this thread now that BD is out.


It took me so long to read the new posts in the thread that I didn't even know it was closed.

Wow.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*











I don't understand your post. Elaborate please.


Lower is better


----------



## reflex99

nvm


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Great.

Thing is, when games start supporting FMA, Bulldozer will have a huge advantage in your workloads too. And AMD will probably still have an advantage over Haswell because Piledriver will be supporting FMA3 and FMA4 while Haswell will only support FMA3.


It really remains to be seen how much software will be recompiled and how long it will take before we see tangible results in client workloads. It is the same thing with the Windows 8 scheduler, it will be a while before consumers have the new OS in hand and can reap the benefits of the BD architecture....

Really that is one of the biggest fails of this launch.

IMO, AMD designed a CPU that was much too forward looking... so much that it sucks in _most_ (read: yes it excels in a few benchmarks) of today's real world tasks. For BD to compete it not only requires software to be very well threaded (most is not) but also needs all of its new instruction sets to be utilized. Those conditions may be true next year or the year after that, but for now FX is basically useless as Thuban is better in a large number of cases.

*Sigh* Very disappointing AMD...

I am still an AMD fan, but at this point I am taking a "wait and see approach" with Piledriver and assuming it is crap until AMD shows real hardware proving otherwise in CURRENT workloads.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


Lower is better


relevance of benchmark?


----------



## Jinny1

Sorry guys but has J/f-amd replied anywhere yet?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JCPUser*


-snip-


This makes too much sense. They need to cut down that power consumption too.









Have you seen AMD's explanation today?

Quote:



In our design considerations, AMD focused on applications and environments that we believe our customers use - and which we expect them to use in the future. The architecture focuses on high-frequency and resource sharing to achieve optimal throughput and speed in next generation applications and high-resolution gaming.


Funny they would say that, considering Bulldozer started its development like 5-6 years ago.

If they meant what they said, Bulldozer would have a HIGH IPC for single threaded apps, and still rocking multi-threaded performance.

That WAS the original goal.










Funny how that stance is now changed.

Quote:



If you are running lightly threaded apps most of the time, then there are plenty of other solutions out there. But if you're like me and use your desktop for high resolution gaming and want to tackle time intensive tasks with newer multi-threaded applications, the AMD FX processor won't let you down.


-----

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Sorry guys but has J/f-amd replied anywhere yet?


If / when he does, I'll be sure to update my sig.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


relevance of benchmark?


1% Market










the Failing Xtreme CPU losing pretty much all fronts

If the percentage is green it means the i7 2600K won

If the percentage is red it means the FX-8150 won

8 cores versus 4 cores


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


This makes too much sense. They need to cut down that power consumption too.









Have you seen AMD's explanation today?

Funny they would say that, considering Bulldozer started its development like 5-6 years ago.

If they meant what they said, Bulldozer would have a HIGH IPC for single threaded apps, and still rocking multi-threaded performance.

That WAS the original goal.










Funny how that stance is now changed.

-----

If / when he does, I'll be sure to update my sig.










that was in 2007

welcome to 2011


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


that was in 2007

welcome to 2011


So, that wasn't the ORIGINAL goal?

We're in 2011, IPC is VERY important for lightly threaded apps, and more than 80% of games today. It would've been MORE important back in 2007.


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jinny1*


Sorry guys but has J/f-amd replied anywhere yet?


I haven't seen JF-AMD post anywhere,unfortunately I don't think we'll see him post here for a while.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


that was in 2007

welcome to 2011


Intel plans their CPU's way ahead of time too.
However, delay after delay maybe FX was a good CPU as originally planned,but perhaps they didn't see what Intel was planning with SB& IB.


----------



## Seronx

Darn forgot to input other than "Netburst"


----------



## Megacharge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15302129*
> Intel plans their CPU's way ahead of time too.
> However, delay after delay maybe FX was a good CPU as originally planned,but perhaps they didn't see what Intel was planning with SB& IB.


Doubt that's the case because Thubans are still better than BD ATM.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG;15302129*
> I haven't seen JF-AMD post anywhere,unfortunately I don't think we'll see him post here for a while.
> 
> Intel plans their CPU's way ahead of time too.
> However, delay after delay maybe FX was a good CPU as originally planned,but perhaps they didn't see what Intel was planning with SB& IB.


I really wasn't talking about Intel. Their goal was to have a HIGH IPC, since that didn't pan out, we're getting a lame excuse as to why.

How can their new architecture have a lower IPC then their old one? Makes no sense.

btw - my comment is still waiting moderation over there. I doubt they're going to post it. Plenty of other comments have been approved.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15302122*
> So, that wasn't the ORIGINAL goal?
> 
> We're in 2011, IPC is VERY important for lightly threaded apps, and more than 80% of games today. It would've been MORE important back in 2007.


Nobody is thrilled with the crappy final version of bulldozer we received on Wednesday, but it all fairness your slide is from 2007 which refers to the canceled 45nm bulldozer. Nobody really knows the differences in the design of the two chips.... for all we know the only similarity is the codename.

With that said, however, I think that AMD needs to re-evaluate their marketing strategy. I don't think they "lied" per say, but their continual use of over-the-top language to describe their products and their absurd optimism late in the game (they were still saying "30-50% faster in the same TDP" at CeBit this year) needs to stop immediately.

A lot of the flack they are current taking they have brought on themselves.


----------



## djriful

We have already seen the truth 4 months ago... nothing has been improved or fix. I doubt by next week or month they are going revision it in a short amount of time...

Source: http://wccftech.com/amd-bulldozer-essample-leaked-benchmarked-tested-asus-sabertooth-990fx-am3/


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15302342*
> We have already seen the truth 4 months ago... nothing has been improved or fix. I doubt by next week or month they are going revision it in a short amount of time...
> 
> Source: http://wccftech.com/amd-bulldozer-essample-leaked-benchmarked-tested-asus-sabertooth-990fx-am3/


I think you got it all wrong, that was already deemed fake.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15302414*
> I think you got it all wrong, that was already deemed fake.


But it is real now that is what an 4m/8t Bulldozer gets @ 2.8GHz


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15302013*
> This makes too much sense. They need to cut down that power consumption too.


I'm seriously beginning to think its something with the CHV boards, all that power has to go somewhere and the chip would be putting out nearly 500watts of heat, nothing the average WC loop or air cooler could handle.


----------



## Seronx

Actually thinking about it Bulldozer is better on 32nm

Barcelona -> Sandtiger

Would be an AMD killer, AMD wouldn't have existed to 2011


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seronx;15302444*
> But it is real now that is what an 4m/8t Bulldozer gets @ 2.8GHz


I know, that was sarcasm, since it's clearly real.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz;15302465*
> I'm seriously beginning to think its something with the CHV boards, all that power has to go somewhere and the chip would be putting out nearly 500watts of heat, nothing the average WC loop or air cooler could handle.


Let's hope so. But why would AMD choose this board for their press kit if that was the case? If they can magically fix these issues, and get the performance to where it's supposed to be, and somehow raise IPC, I'd still get one.

My upgrade path is now SB-E. So they have about 4 - 6 weeks that should be plenty of time.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15302541*
> My upgrade path is now SB-E. So they have about 4 - 6 weeks that should be plenty of time.


Going to wait for more Ivy Bridge leaks to make sure if I want to go for SB-E or IB


----------



## NateN34




----------



## Megacharge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NateN34*


Loloolol.


Yep, heheheheh, still waiting for you to fix it.

EDIT: cool, it's working. LOL funny stuff.


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NateN34*


Bulldozer Performance


Rofl!


----------



## 66racer

lol


----------



## The sword of Roland

http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html

it doesn`t look that bad at all. maybe you stick this with a professional GPU and you can get a convenient Workstation for CAD and 3D-modeling, adequate optimized in Workflow for 3D contentcreation. a low budget Workhorse for freelancers. this would be nice.

I`m looking forward running some Tests with my firebaby venus8800.









on the other side this could all be a wet dream.

sorry for my deficient English


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The sword of Roland*


http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html

it doesn`t look that bad at all. maybe you stick this with a professional GPU and you can get a convenient Workstation for CAD and 3D-modeling, adequate optimized in Workflow for 3D contentcreation. a low budget Workhorse for freelancers. this would be nice.

I`m looking forward running some Tests with my firebaby venus8800.









on the other side this could all be a wet dream.

sorry for my deficient English


Maybe you should check out the REST of the review.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The sword of Roland*


http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...pus/page7.html

it doesn`t look that bad at all. maybe you stick this with a professional GPU and you can get a convenient Workstation for CAD and 3D-modeling, adequate optimized in Workflow for 3D contentcreation. a low budget Workhorse for freelancers. this would be nice.

I`m looking forward running some Tests with my firebaby venus8800.









on the other side this could all be a wet dream.

sorry for my deficient English


In the actual world test, It loses I can't find the benchmark but the FPS decreases by a lot in the real world version

Cinebench is more accurate to your CAD and 3D Modeling needs

1100T being better and the 4170 being slower than the 980BE

But overall Workstation/CAD/HPC/3d Modeling is still dominated by Intel

The impact of AMD w/ Bulldozer:










Didn't even shatter the window

Oh! #[email protected]$#










It's on fire guys it is on fire!!!!


----------



## The sword of Roland

I was talking for people who can`t spend about 4000€. In Rendering Intel rules for sure. I was talking about workflow,... calculating fillets, champfer, extrusions, rotations, coils etc. 
Cinebench is everything but representative a radeon or geforce could gain more fps than a quadro or firepro but they will never be able to manage a huge amount of polygons without turning into rough wireframe mode.

i just want to test some scenarios, maybe Iam lucky, otherwise I have to dig deeper through my wallet









btw Iam working with C4D and ACAD Inventor


----------



## Obakemono

Well this thread is USELESS now, since there are so many trolls that think they know everything.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Obakemono*


Well this thread is USELESS now, since there are so many trolls that think they know everything.










I know, tell me about it.









Set the record straight on why Bulldozer is better.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303409*
> I know, tell me about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Set the record straight on why Bulldozer is better.


Dude 2010rig

Someone just did math that brainspankledwarf me

Cherry picked:

Phenom 4.2GHz on LN2 2008
Phenom II 4.2GHz on Air 2010

Then
AMD FX 7+GHz on LN2 2011
AMD FX Next 7+GHz on Air 2013

I'm waiting for bleeping Steamroller who cares about Piledriver and Bulldozer

and if Haswell beats Steamroller, Well it was a wait worth while


----------



## etlecho

I don't know why I read this thread. It's all over the place and almost nothing worth reading. Now the comments are reveresed -as soon as someone post a half-decent bench on buldozer everyone screams "fake! BD is crap!"









Have anyone heard if anyone have tried to unlock modules in the fx-4 or fx-6?


----------



## The sword of Roland

I`ve seen Benchmarks with one core disabled per module........

I don`t know, if it is crap yet.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15303501*
> I don't know why I read this thread. It's all over the place and almost nothing worth reading. Now the comments are reveresed -as soon as someone post a half-decent bench on buldozer everyone screams "fake! BD is crap!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have anyone heard if anyone have tried to unlock modules in the fx-4 or fx-6?


I've yet to see anyone call it fake. I do however see people pointing out GPU bottlenecks, at which point the CPU tested is irrelevant.

It doesn't make sense to boast a CPU's performance in GPU bound scenarios.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303584*
> I've yet to see anyone call it fake. I do however see people pointing out GPU bottlenecks, at which point the CPU tested is irrelevant.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to boast a CPU's performance in GPU bound scenarios.


Well....the CPU probably doesn't have mature drivers either

i7 2600K has a several month lead....

and Fermi and the IOMMU in AMD 990FX....means the GPU can share memory space with the CPU

CUDA 4.2 maybe


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303584*
> I've yet to see anyone call it fake. I do however see people pointing out GPU bottlenecks, at which point the CPU tested is irrelevant.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to boast a CPU's performance in GPU bound scenarios.


But it's what the majority of systems do, so of course it is relevant.

How many rigs do you see here with a single mid range GPU and x CPU?


----------



## etlecho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303584*
> I've yet to see anyone call it fake. I do however see people pointing out GPU bottlenecks, at which point the CPU tested is irrelevant.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to boast a CPU's performance in GPU bound scenarios.


That's what I meant with calling it crap. And they are calling AMD's pre-launch benches fake...I thought I saw some other benches called fake as well...I'll se if I can find it. Don't know if they are, but the thread is spiralling down the drain:axesmiley


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etlecho;15303606*
> That's what I meant with calling it crap. And they are calling AMD's pre-launch benches fake...I thought I saw some other benches called fake as well...I'll se if I can find it. Don't know if they are, but the thread is spiralling down the drain


That happened a long time ago.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;15303603*
> But it's what the majority of systems do, so of course it is relevant.
> 
> How many rigs do you see here with a single mid range GPU and x CPU?


You do realize that in GPU bound scenarios, your current chip will perform the same as the 8120 you're buying right?

But hey, so long as you're happy with your purchase that's all that matters.

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000220/AMD-FX-8150-Bulldozer-CPU-Review/7#axzz1akUEf5pU


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303670*
> You do realize that in GPU bound scenarios, your current chip will perform the same as the 8120 you're buying right?
> 
> But hey, so long as you're happy with your purchase that's all that matters.
> 
> I'll just leave this here:
> http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000220/AMD-FX-8150-Bulldozer-CPU-Review/7#axzz1akUEf5pU


And then why would we test in an on purposely forced CPU bound scenario? I'd personally rather game at 1080p than 1024x768.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig;15303670*
> *You do realize that in GPU bound scenarios, your current chip will perform the same as the 8120 you're buying right?*
> 
> But hey, so long as you're happy with your purchase that's all that matters.
> 
> I'll just leave this here:
> http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000220/AMD-FX-8150-Bulldozer-CPU-Review/7#axzz1akUEf5pU


And use less power Supposedly.

And Come on man, your avatar makes me even more depressed.


----------



## Seronx

http://www.techpowerup.com/153567/AM...facturing.html

Be interesting if GloFo fudged it up and used Synthetic Tools instead of using a hand design

30% larger die(max) 30% lower performance(max)

Meaning if Bulldozer was done by hand and if my math is correct

315mm^2 x 70% => 221mm^2

6.01 CB pts / 70% => 8.6 pts

If this is the case GlobalFoundries FUDGED IT UP big time all over the place fudged it up so fudged it up I would just drop GloFo if I was AMD

Just incase I got 30% mixed up with 20%

315mm^2 x 80% => 252mm^2

6.01 CB pts/ 80% => 7.5pts


----------



## flashtest

Wait what, since when are GloFo doing AMD's chip design ?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *disturbed117*


And use less power Supposedly.

And Come on man, your avatar makes me even more depressed.


I eluded to the power part, since it may be the board. We'll see what the next few weeks bring.

I'm sorry my avatar depresses you, you're cool, I'll see if I can find another tomorrow.

Look on the bright side, this was my original choice.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flashtest*


Wait what, since when are GloFo doing AMD's chip design ?










When was

and nevermind you are right

It is all AMDs fault

FAT CPU = SLOW CPU

If AMD uses by hand tools for all of them Transistors we should get 20-30% die shrink(max)
Vishera...better impress

If someone could find me a quote that shows disappoint ex-engineer who left AMD then talked about how AMD was starting to use synthetic ways to design chips


----------



## 2010rig

Seronx, this should get you started
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ee-speaks.html


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Seronx, this should get you started
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...ee-speaks.html


Thanks and here it is

Quote:



That changed before I left â€" they started to rely on synthesis tools, automatic place and route tools, etc. I had been in charge of our design flow in the years before I left, and I had tested these tools by asking the companies who sold them to design blocks (adders, multipliers, etc.) using their tools. I let them take as long as they wanted. They always came back to me with designs that were 20% bigger, and 20% slower than our hand-crafted designs, and which suffered from electromigration and other problems.

That is now how AMD designs chips. Iâ€™m sure it will turn out well for them [/sarcasm]


So 20% is an average

and if AMD then sucks it up and makes Bulldozer by hand:

Code:


Code:


315mm^2 x 80% => 252mm^2

6.01 CB pts/ 80% => 7.5pts


----------



## 2010rig

I wonder if anyone is going to try to run bulldozer in an AM3 board. Just imagine if it increases performance, AND lowers power consumption.


----------



## Seronx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I wonder if anyone is going to try to run bulldozer in an AM3 board. Just imagine if it increases performance, AND lowers power consumption.










Probably not

It seems to be a Design Flaw of the synthetic nature

Quote:



and which suffered from electromigration and other problems.


Those other problems


----------



## ryboto

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Usario*


Does anyone still doubt the power of FMA4?

I hope not.

EDIT: AMD also comes out on top most of the time in AES workloads.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *ryboto*


I REAALLY want you to be right, but what about these benchmarks?-

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/17


I posted that before you posted your links, just curious what you think. I don't know much about instruction sets, but Techreport used a bench that leveraged FMA4 and XOP, and the Dozer still isn't exactly destroying the competition.

My biggest gripe is still power consumption.


----------



## Zackcy

People still post here?


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *2010rig*


I wonder if anyone is going to try to run bulldozer in an AM3 board. Just imagine if it increases performance, AND lowers power consumption.










I would try one in my AM3 board,but the board and PSU would explode.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Seronx*


When was

and nevermind you are right

It is all AMDs fault

FAT CPU = SLOW CPU

If AMD uses by hand tools for all of them Transistors we should get 20-30% die shrink(max)
Vishera...better impress

If someone could find me a quote that shows disappoint ex-engineer who left AMD then talked about how AMD was starting to use synthetic ways to design chips


Are you sure they need to rework the core by hand just so it runs optimally?
Most other CPu's were made by machine and run just fine,FX would be a very expensive chip if it were made by hand.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ryboto*


.../snip *destroying the competition.*

.../snip


This *flair* or *sensationalism* is beginning to bother me. I've seen benches (which i don't have the time to find right now, they have been posted in this thread) in different instruction sets such as the FMA4 or AES + AVX, where BD high the highest score by far, and it's no one gives it props for what it is.

But when the 3960x scores 3% higher than SB, or actually 4-5% lower than a 2600k in a certain task, it's still the "bomb-diggity dog" and it creams the competition..... yea, I said it.

sensationalism

meh.

PRE_EDIT: scientifically speaking, this "real world use" is a bunch of bullocks. Yes there are many negative points, power consumtion, price, ect but everyone is so resistant to acknowledge the good points and chalk it up to "so your going to use truecrypt everyday all say














" and just leave it at that without any actual discussion.

i iz bord.


----------



## Canis-X

I see that JF has not been on at all. I wonder what AMD is going to do now? If this synthetic process is what they used....I sincerely hope that they fire the guy that made the decision to use it!!


----------



## Disturbed117

he is on now


----------



## Canis-X

WHOA....JF is here!!! JF!! What happened?

......and gone again. *sigh*


----------



## Disturbed117

wth, He just logged out


----------



## Canis-X

Yeah, he did that quite a bit on Wed also.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

he's not going to respond just to be flammed at.
cuz that's exactly what will happen since you guys can't contain yourselves.
i seriously doubt he is going to respond to this thread.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Probably reading all the hate mail in his PM box.


----------



## AMDrocks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Probably reading all the hate mail in his PM box.


But he is the server guy, Not desktop, I don't think he would have alot of emails/PMs about bulldozer.


----------



## etlecho

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Probably reading all the hate mail in his PM box.


If people have been sending hate mail to his PM-box, they should be reprimanded for it.

I think that this whole situation is getting out of hand! Sheesh, I understand that people want answers, so do I, but acting like idiots will not get any good answers. Some people around here need to chill.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMDrocks*


But he is the server guy, Not desktop, I don't think he would have alot of emails/PMs about bulldozer.


Look around. 
Several people were blasting him the past few days. 
I could only imagine what they said to him in PMs.


----------



## Nocturin

I would PM him in questions of the desktop wallpaper, but I doubt it'll ever be read.

JF, put that 16 core die shot up on imgur or something and PM me the link and I'll distribute it here.

I have no interest in beating somebody up that is just doing their job.

le sign.


----------



## kchris

JF was acting all condescending and disrespectful to all those people who politely and constructively questioned details of Bulldozer's performance before its release. And now that it's out he runs away. Kind of cowardly :/.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


he's not going to respond just to be flammed at.
cuz that's exactly what will happen since you guys can't contain yourselves.
i seriously doubt he is going to respond to this thread.


^this...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


Probably reading all the hate mail in his PM box.


...^ and this...

Seriously...if you really want to make your feelings known about the FX processor, I suggest going to this webpage:

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases...2011oct12.aspx

In the upper right-hand corner of the page is the contact info for the AMD Desktop Public Relations person. Your efforts to convey your dissatisfaction would likely be better directed to her...since FX is within her product line.

And like it has been conveyed...he's here trying to convey what he can on his own time. I've personally noticed the guy logged in early on a Sunday morning here before. How many other corporate management people are here interfacing with us like he does?

Anyways... I hope you guys will take a step back and realize your are chasing the wrong goose when you badger/flame/corner him for a product he didn't write, design or approve the marketing for...let alone the chip design or performance.

/rant

I know everyone has been on about the FX...but...did anyone corp get the Interlagos server processor and see any results from Bulldozer on the server side of things?


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kchris*


JF was acting all condescending and disrespectful to all those people who politely and constructively questioned details of Bulldozer's performance before its release. And now that it's out he runs away. Kind of cowardly :/.


LOL not everyone was polite dude
besides,
he had a job to do and he did it,
who cares.

also, would you respond to these threads if you were the one everyone is pissed at for no reason??


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hazzeedayz*


he's not going to respond just to be flammed at.
cuz that's exactly what will happen since you guys can't contain yourselves.
i seriously doubt he is going to respond to this thread.


He conned everyone into buying an AM3+ board and you expect people to be nice to him? I bet he got a nice fat bonus for it.


----------



## Wbroach23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


He conned everyone into buying an AM3+ board and you expect people to be nice to him? I bet he got a nice fat bonus for it.


No he didnt I dont remember any poasts of his saying "Hey Buy this it will be awesome" infact im pretty sure he said a few times he wouldnt tell anyone what they should buy.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


He conned everyone into buying an AM3+ board and you expect people to be nice to him? I bet he got a nice fat bonus for it.


Wrong, If i recall he even stated he was on this thread during his personal time.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*


I would PM him in questions of the desktop wallpaper, but I doubt it'll ever be read.

JF, put that 16 core die shot up on imgur or something and PM me the link and I'll distribute it here.

I have no interest in beating somebody up that is just doing their job.

le sign.


I haven't forgotten about the wallpaper. 
Definitely would like to have it.


----------



## Hazzeedayz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


He conned everyone into buying an AM3+ board and you expect people to be nice to him? I bet he got a nice fat bonus for it.


ya you must be high
besides, these boards are much better than AM3 boards so why cry about it.
you got a very nice upgrade.
smile your computer is better


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Don Karnage*


He conned everyone into buying an AM3+ board and you expect people to be nice to him? I bet he got a nice fat bonus for it.


I really hope you're being sarcastic...

FX and AM3 are not even within his product line. The only way he'd get a bonus was if he owned stock and the value was going up.

It went down 0.8% the other day. What a bonus...

(Fixed post)


----------



## capitaltpt

I'd be willing to agree to no more discussion directed at JF-AMD (with penalty of thread locking) including insults and anger if he would just come on and post the answers to the following questions straight-forward without marketing BS:

1. Is the performance of FX chips in the many reviews indicative of what AMD expected at launch?

2. Based upon fact, or your opinion, what is holding the performance back right now?

3. Is AMD currently working on a fix for the problems with this processor? (or is one even possible)

4. What is the likelihood of seeing this fix in the short term (by year's end)?

I think we all understand he doesn't have a hand in client processors, but I figure these are questions that can be answered by the guys "at the end of his row." Now that the chips and reviews are out, there's really no reason he shouldn't be able to answer any of those questions for us honestly and without marketing spin. As long as mods agree, I think we should give JF the room to come on here and answer those questions without having to worry about being flamed.

If it's a dud and this is all they could do right now, fine. I don't think most people's decisions about upgrades are going to be changed at this point because of that. We would just like complete information to help us see what AMD's end goal is here.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *capitaltpt*


I'd be willing to agree to no more discussion directed at JF-AMD (with penalty of thread locking) including insults and anger if he would just come on and post the answers to the following questions straight-forward without marketing BS:

1. Is the performance of FX chips in the many reviews indicative of what AMD expected at launch?

2. Based upon fact, or your opinion, what is holding the performance back right now?

3. Is AMD currently working on a fix for the problems with this processor? (or is one even possible)

4. What is the likelihood of seeing this fix in the short term (by year's end)?

I think we all understand he doesn't have a hand in client processors, but I figure these are questions that can be answered by the guys "at the end of his row." Now that the chips and reviews are out, there's really no reason he shouldn't be able to answer any of those questions for us honestly and without marketing spin. As long as mods agree, I think we should give JF the room to come on here and answer those questions without having to worry about being flamed.

If it's a dud and this is all they could do right now, fine. I don't think most people's decisions about upgrades are going to be changed at this point because of that. We would just like complete information to help us see what AMD's end goal is here.


FX, Desktop, and Zambezi aren't his products. Has he not made that clear by now?

As I have posted before, I'd recommend you call or email Miriam Cox in AMD Desktop PR for whom to contact to relay your questions.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin*


I haven't forgotten about the wallpaper. 
Definitely would like to have it.










This is why I'm sad about JF staying away.










you meanies are keeping us from our swag.

And I am utterly surprised as to how many people make strong worded accusations.

But then again, perception is 99% of reality.

RAWR!


----------



## kzone75

Or lock this thread and maybe JF could PM one of the moderators to reopen if he wants to say something.. And then close it for all eternity..

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about JF. I appreciate that he's been here. It saddens me that he's being treated like crap by some of you guys. He was here on his own time. Gave us the info that he could.


----------



## jck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kzone75*


Or lock this thread and maybe JF could PM one of the moderators to reopen if he wants to say something.. And then close it for all eternity..

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about JF. I appreciate that he's been here. It saddens me that he's being treated like crap by some of you guys. He was here on his own time. Gave us the info that he could.


^ Agreed 100%


----------



## yukon

Hey intel guys, is anyone pushing you around? Stop please, allow the dust to settle. We are obviously let down too.. This isn't west side story, we are all the same in many respects.. Lets figure this out together


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yukon*


Hey intel guys, is anyone pushing you around? Stop please, allow the dust to settle. We are obviously let down too.. This isn't west side story, we are all the same in many respects.. Lets figure this out together


----------



## capitaltpt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jck*


FX, Desktop, and Zambezi aren't his products. Has he not made that clear by now?

As I have posted before, I'd recommend you call or email Miriam Cox in AMD Desktop PR for whom to contact to relay your questions.


I think I made it clear that we understand he's not on the client end. Who are we more likely to get straight answers from though? It's not as if he has no clue what's going on.

He has rapport with this forum and is more in touch with our mindset than Miriam Cox is I would guess.


----------



## Wbroach23

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nocturin*




























to bad jack didnt poast before you lol then it would have been Yukon jck


----------



## capitaltpt

Found this interesting. Explains things a little bit, although still marketing. Looks like we ARE waiting for software to take advantage:

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/AMD-Breaks-New-Ground-With-FX-Bulldozer-Processors-73503.html
Quote:


> Some reviewers have panned the performance of the FX CPU, but AMD's Cox pointed out that Bulldozer "was not designed for older, single-threaded applications and benchmarks.
> 
> However, "performance will continue to improve as software applications and benchmarks continue to evolve and utilize these new instructions and our Bulldozer architecture," Cox stated.


----------



## jck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *capitaltpt;15306074*
> I think I made it clear that we understand he's not on the client end. Who are we more likely to get straight answers from though? It's not as if he has no clue what's going on.
> 
> He has rapport with this forum and is more in touch with our mindset than Miriam Cox is I would guess.


I would say...you're more likely to get an answer out of Miriam Cox or someone she can point you to.

I believe JF-AMD won't comment on FX, and has stated as much.

So I think if you know he's not desktop, and know that he won't comment on that product, and that you have been given a contact for Public Relations at AMD for their desktop products....

...your logical path is to ask a desktop products representative who is paid to interface with the public about desktop products.

No?


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukon;15306007*
> Hey intel guys, is anyone pushing you around? Stop please, allow the dust to settle. We are obviously let down too.. This isn't west side story, we are all the same in many respects.. Lets figure this out together


We'll get it out of our system in a few more days. After 6 months of hearing about how BD was going to bulldozer SB you've earned it.


----------



## 66racer

Well we all bought into quad cores even though then it was a dual core world, I remember many editors and users in forums say optimistically "it will even get faster with time too!" but for some reason today we cant be as optimistic with the same situation? I really think BD has some tricks up its sleeve. We'll see within the next few weeks how much was poor bios compatibility and any weird glitches. Maybe a revision 2 will occur on the chip itself too, but although I was immediatly disappointed when things hit the news, now that things are settling i dont believe things will be so bad. Sure it wasnt a 2500k killer, but if the 8150 matures to be solid competition with the 2500k that would be sweet. Even the 2500k and 2600k loose to the 1100t in certain benchmarks, just shows you cant win every test. I will be looking forward to trying the 8150, just want prices to settle a bit into the $220 range


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75;15305980*
> Or lock this thread and maybe JF could PM one of the moderators to reopen if he wants to say something.. And then close it for all eternity..
> 
> I have absolutely nothing bad to say about JF. I appreciate that he's been here. It saddens me that he's being treated like crap by some of you guys. He was here on his own time. Gave us the info that he could.


some of the members are just on ego trips as the dont have anything better to do. im surprised that ocn doesnt sensor these people who strive for creating disorder on these boards. let alone..the some mods allow false quoting to be allowed. quotes require an actual reference to be held legit. this isnt even professional...

i appreciate what jf initally did; he improved the relations between the community and the company. however, with the false represntations he gave the companie's product, such as the integer performance and overall performance, it appears to be more of a marketing ploy rather then a means to improve communication to their customers. 6% or whatever we attribute towards their products is now 6% of profits they wont receive.

jf evidently lied to the user base. if he didnt and bulldozer does in fact perform as he states, he better be communitcating our disgust in the product to the engineers and make sure they get their asses on fixing the darn problems or hirering a new set of people to actually develop a good product.

this bs of "we can make a fast chip, you just cant afford it" is so nonsensical as we used to fork out a grand for cpus. we used to pay hundreds of dollars for a few megs of ram. and this is the average user. look at intel, just 30 bucks more and you see sometimes 2x the performance. no...this isnt a marketing problem of what users can afford..this is a design problem.

i hope jf can pull throuh this mess of bulldozer. hes a cool guy, but bulldozer is reflecting amd as a respectible cpu competitor poorly.


----------



## Don Karnage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;15306369*
> some of the members are just on ego trips as the dont have anything better to do. im surprised that ocn doesnt sensor these people who strive for creating disorder on these boards. let alone..the some mods allow false quoting to be allowed. quotes require an actual reference to be held legit. this isnt even professional...
> 
> i appreciate what jf initally did; he improved the relations between the community and the company. however, with the false represntations he gave the companie's product, such as the integer performance and overall performance, it appears to be more of a marketing ploy rather then a means to improve communication to their customers. 6% or whatever we attribute towards their products is now 6% of profits they wont receive.
> 
> jf evidently lied to the user base. if he didnt and bulldozer does in fact perform as he states, he better be communitcating our disgust in the product to the engineers and make sure they get their asses on fixing the darn problems or hirering a new set of people to actually develop a good product.


Very well said domino


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## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Don Karnage;15306405*
> Very well said domino


agreed, any news whether the CHV boards are mishaps or not?


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## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2;15306522*
> agreed, any news whether the CHV boards are mishaps or not?


click the CHV thread in my sig.
they are working to find this out


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## Slappy Mcgee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evil Penguin;15305742*
> I haven't forgotten about the wallpaper.
> Definitely would like to have it.


Yes I am very eager to see the Wall Paper as well


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## jackeyjoe

ok... it seems this thread has pretty much run out of steam. To save everybody trouble I think I'll close it... If you have something to say say it in the review thread, not that everything hasn't been covered a million times lol


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