# Is putting your server in the garage ok?



## kujon

Hi, I'm moving into a new house sometime in the near future. Planning on a norco 4220 whs build. Was wondering if putting the whs in the garage was ok. I know during summer, temperatures can reach 90-100 (100 rarely) even inside of the garage. would i just need to turn up the fans to max? (i do plan on getting some quieter after market fans)


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## mbudden

Eh. I wouldn't.
Moisture could come into play.
& as you mentioned, heat.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mbudden;13718316*
> Eh. I wouldn't.
> Moisture could come into play.
> & as you mentioned, heat.


i live in north california so it's dry heat. it never gets moist in the garage


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## MahiMahiMahi

Make sure you have plenty of dust protection. You should be careful to not trip any of the sockets. Garage sockets are always hooked up on a GFI circuit which will trip at 15 amps. Make sure you have backup power.


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## Carlitos714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13718304*
> Hi, I'm moving into a new house sometime in the near future. Planning on a norco 4220 whs build. Was wondering if putting the whs in the garage was ok. I know during summer, temperatures can reach 90-100 (100 rarely) even inside of the garage. would i just need to turn up the fans to max? (i do plan on getting some quieter after market fans)


I eventually want to own a Norco 4220! Anyhow, test out one of your pc's. Leave it in the garage and see what kind of temps you see.

I would do it. That is my plan once I buy a house!

Crank up those fans


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## allikat

If it has decent power provision, doesn't get damp and you have really good dust protection, it'll be fine. Decent means quality, most servers are pretty low power use unless you fold on them.

Edit: I'd put it as far away from the garage door as possible, and up off the floor, just in case. A wall unit modified to provide decent airflow would be perfect. Replace the door with a screen one and you're good.


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## kujon

the new house has some 'shelving' that looks similar to this. good point about the dust though, i didnt really think of that. that would be kind of hard determine until i actually get there.


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## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13718618*
> the new house has some 'shelving' that looks similar to this. good point about the dust though, i didnt really think of that. that would be kind of hard determine until i actually get there.


Dust is pretty well-known. The GFI will kill the server. 15 amps is not a lot of power. My air compressor trips the circuit all the time. Make sure you run a ups.


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## makecoldplayhistory

buy some silaca (sp?) gel and pour into the bottom of the server's tower. That'll solve any moisture issues.

Though about animal problems? Ants eat wire insulation... mice, cockroaches etc.

Isn't there anywhere else? Sounds like a plan fraught with potential problems, IMO.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *makecoldplayhistory;13718947*
> buy some silaca (sp?) gel and pour into the bottom of the server's tower. That'll solve any moisture issues.
> 
> Though about animal problems? Ants eat wire insulation... mice, cockroaches etc.
> 
> Isn't there anywhere else? Sounds like a plan fraught with potential problems, IMO.


i guess it would be a little hard to keep something like this inside the house









i mostly wanted to keep it in teh garage since it seems like a good spot to keep it out of site (noise)


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## 8ight

Not if it's a "real" server. They are meant to be in the AC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13719029*
> i guess it would be a little hard to keep something like this inside the house
> 
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> i mostly wanted to keep it in teh garage since it seems like a good spot to keep it out of site (noise)


I do keep one of these in the house








HP Proliant DL580 G.3 <3
EDIT: I actually have 4 DL580s in my house, one in sig rig.


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## iCrap

No, this is just a bad idea. It will overheat and die. Also you might trip the breaker...

In california, i think they have no basements their? put it in a closet or something.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8ight;13719094*
> Not if it's a "real" server. They are meant to be in the AC.
> 
> I do keep one of these in the house
> 
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> 
> HP Proliant DL580 G.3 <3


yeah, it's not quite a 'real' server. just an average whs. it wont be on 24/7 either
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap;13719156*
> No, this is just a bad idea. It will overheat and die. Also you might trip the breaker...
> 
> In california, i think they have no basements their? put it in a closet or something.


basements aren't the norm around here. it's because we dont get tornadoes or anything. my house will be on a concrete slab







it makes wiring a pain in the ass when i wire the house for ethernet


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## pioneerisloud

My machine has been in the garage for 2 years. I wouldn't even think twice about it, its not going to be a problem really. Just keep it off the ground, and as far back away from the big garage door as possible. It'll be just fine.

And why would you worry about getting "quieter" fans? It's in the garage...crank those fans up to the max! Not like you'll ever hear them anyway in the house.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;13719196*
> My machine has been in the garage for 2 years. I wouldn't even think twice about it, its not going to be a problem really. Just keep it off the ground, and as far back away from the big garage door as possible. It'll be just fine.
> 
> And why would you worry about getting "quieter" fans? It's in the garage...crank those fans up to the max! Not like you'll ever hear them anyway in the house.


that's true. so you've never had problems with summer heat? anything else i should know about? i guess getting quieter fans was on my priority list since i dont want to work inside of a garage with a hair dryer on all the time


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## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13719306*
> that's true. so you've never had problems with summer heat? anything else i should know about? i guess getting quieter fans was on my priority list since i dont want to work inside of a garage with a hair dryer on all the time


100*F isn't that hot for computer equipment really. So no, not any serious issues. Just have to back the overclock down during the summer, that's all. At bone stock, everything is MORE than cool enough though.

My sig rig, CPU loads at 60*C, GPU loads at around 85*C. With the clocks and voltages in my sig. This is in the garage...and roughly 90-100*F temperatures (at least) out here. I'm actually only downclocked and lowered my volts right now, because I'm moving....so I'll have to pay the power bill now.







I was at 4.8GHz, 1.44v and 925 core, 1.15v (CPU / GPU). And I wasn't overheating with that either.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;13719823*
> 100*F isn't that hot for computer equipment really. So no, not any serious issues. Just have to back the overclock down during the summer, that's all. At bone stock, everything is MORE than cool enough though.
> 
> My sig rig, CPU loads at 60*C, GPU loads at around 85*C. With the clocks and voltages in my sig. This is in the garage...and roughly 90-100*F temperatures (at least) out here. I'm actually only downclocked and lowered my volts right now, because I'm moving....so I'll have to pay the power bill now.
> 
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> I was at 4.8GHz, 1.44v and 925 core, 1.15v (CPU / GPU). And I wasn't overheating with that either.


do you keep the area around the server relatively clear so it gets adequate air flow?


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## terraprime

I would personally say if its in dry heat, and off the ground its fine. And if its in the air then air flow should be quite adequate unless you got crap around it. And as previously stated I personally would get a Uninterpretable Power Supply with auto voltage regulation.


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## blupupher

I had a folding rig in the garage (with temps in the mid 90's in the summer inside the garage, humidity in the 80-90% range at times) with no problems. I just kept the fans on high. It was loud, but it is the garage.
Yea it ran hotter than in a house, but I did it for 2 years (a AMD x2 and 2 9600GSO's) and they survived.

Here is a pic of it (it was in a case for a while, then I just hung it on a pegboard)










And here is what I had last summer:










edit: Found this pic of my server in the garage (although it was from December to March, it then got put in a case and is beside my desk now).


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## Vagrant Storm

I have a machine in my garage...I only use when I am working in the garage though. Never had any issues. It is an old pentium D system so I don't worry about it, but those ran rather warm and it doesn't have any trouble. I cut a lot of wood and metal out there...use a drill press every now and then. The dust doesn't seem to hurt it. I just blow it out every now and then. Dampness and sub freezing temps have never caused a problem either.

However, that doesn't mean it won't ever cause a problem for a server in a space like my garage. For my servers I put exhaust and Intake fans pushing/pulling air from the wall space in a closet. Intake at the bottom pulling cooler air and the exhaust blowing out near the top. The ambient temp with the door shut stays only a couple degrees warmer than regular ambient temps. It works great and the hardware is easily accessible.


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## PCCstudent

I would keep this sensitive piece of electronic equipment in the most benign,controled environment possible. It is not a bench grinder we are talking about here. Unless you bought the industrial grade unit it was designed to be in a very controlled environment as far as temp, humidity, dust, dirt in the air. This unit belongs in the house, in an Air Conditioned room.


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## the_beast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8ight;13719094*
> Not if it's a "real" server. They are meant to be in the AC.


Not really. In fact, if anything, most servers are overcooling (sometimes even dangerously so - air that's too cold can do more harm than good).

Having said that, 100F inlet temps are really on the 'too high' side. Keeping to 82-86F, even pushing 90F, is much better for the hardware.


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## PCCstudent

Well Beast you are odd man out on this one,as one out of the ten or so answers says over 20C. No one is claiming too cold and some spec 50F. Google states 80F is their standard
http://serverfault.com/questions/11145/what-is-the-correct-temperature-for-a-server-room

I have a 4U sitting about 2 feet from me, and the last time I checked I am in the house.


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## airbozo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13718412*
> i live in north california so it's dry heat. it never gets moist in the garage


Dry heat in northern california? Are you out in the desert or something? I am in the Santa Cruz mountains which is near rain forest conditions most of the year...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi;13718506*
> Make sure you have plenty of dust protection. You should be careful to not trip any of the sockets. Garage sockets are always hooked up on a GFI circuit which will trip at 15 amps. Make sure you have backup power.


Not all garages have GFI circuits. That is a fairly recent code restriction and none of the houses I have ever lived in have them in the garage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13719029*
> i guess it would be a little hard to keep something like this inside the house
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i mostly wanted to keep it in teh garage since it seems like a good spot to keep it out of site (noise)


I have a smaller version of that chassis installed in my desk...


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## the_beast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCCstudent;13725185*
> Well Beast you are odd man out on this one,as one out of the ten or so answers says under 20C. No one is claiming too cold and some spec 50F. Google states 80F is their standard
> http://serverfault.com/questions/11145/what-is-the-correct-temperature-for-a-server-room


The temps I listed are the upper end of what I would consider reasonable for this server to run at during the summer months for this case - which is different to how I would actually set up the room temps in a DC.

Which is actually what I do for a living - setting up datacentres of various sizes to run as efficiently as possible without causing issues with any of the kit. I have around 8MW of IT kit that I directly influence the air inlet temperatures for - I'm not talking about little server rooms in the back of your office space here, I'm talking full-blown Tier III/IV facilities. Inlet temps of 25-28C are fairly standard, although actually still lower than required for a lot of kit. Generally the only thing stopping us putting the temps up more is executives who want to show off their facility that believe the IT halls should be cold - in some centres we run the halls hot, and only cool them down when visits are taking place for this reason.


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## airbozo

BTW: I have also installed small servers in outside NEMA boxes with only air filters. They are subject to varied temps and humidity levels as well as some pests (ants, spiders, etc.). While this is not normal, it is done in certain locations where an inside server room is not available. They do require constant maintenance to prevent fan failures and corrosion problems. I had my home server in my motorcycle garage for years until it died and I was too lazy to upgrade my 15 amp circuit to 20 amps. That thing would get up to about 100 degrees in the summer and high humidity in the winter.


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## PCCstudent

My Server 2008 instructor was explaining virtuialization and the benefits of such. One of the benefits was how there would be less heat to deal with in the server room(meaning less AC and thusly less electricity to cool the room). I am sure that 80F figure cited by how google likes their data center is to say the least for a room that is "fairly large".
I am willing to look over any data you can present about prefered server room temps, as you know I do have an eye for data and will be fair.

There seems to be an extreme difference of opinion on this subject,with many of the numbers comming from experts
http://ask.slashdot.org/story/02/10/25/2315218/Whats-the-Proper-Temperature-for-a-Server-Room

Many servers are rated and tested for the higher temps but when a poorly designed room developes a hot spot or a unit at the end of the rack has its temperature too high it is time to lower the room temp overall.

You are correct about one thing, the first time upper management has to come down and check out why a unit is offline that room better be cold. I ask if you are willing to write the check for new equipment because you thought it was too cold in the room,electricity is cheap compared to new hardware. We have a saying over here in the states,lets see if you can find my context "No one ever got fired buying gear from IBM".I will make it easy for you, go big or go home.(meaning a crusade to keep the server room hot is not a well supported career move).

This is a link to a large study that does agree data centers are kept too cold, by http://knol.google.com/k/anonymous/how-data-centers-are-kept-cool/187a6z7rnld7y/2#


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## justarealguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi;13718506*
> You should be careful to not trip any of the sockets. Garage sockets are always hooked up on a GFI circuit which will trip at 15 amps.


15a x 120v = 1800w

He's pulling 1800w from the wall with a server?


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## the_beast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCCstudent;13726647*
> You are correct about one thing, the first time upper management has to come down and check out why a unit is offline that room better be cold. I ask if you are willing to write the check for new equipment because you thought it was too cold in the room,electricity is cheap compared to new hardware. We have a saying over here in the states,lets see if you can find my context "No one ever got fired buying gear from IBM".I will make it easy for you, go big or go home.(meaning a crusade to keep the server room hot is not a well supported career move).


I'll write more of a proper response later (I have a report I need to finish so no time now).

Regarding the electricity - we spent around $25M on electricity last year. Over half of that is on cooling and other support services (mainly UPS losses), and there is a huge pressure to reduce that sum.

And one more thing - I _would_ get fired for buying IBM. They used to be our largest competitor...


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## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justarealguy;13726666*
> 15a x 120v = 1800w
> 
> He's pulling 1800w from the wall with a server?


A 15 amp surge is very easy to do. I'm not talking about the server, I am talking about the garages GFI outlets. If one trips, the whole circuit goes down. Fridges often cause them to trip, and any large spike of power can cause it to trip. Air compressors cause the breakers to trip too. 1800 Watts is very easy to pull in a garage. If the OP doesn't have any power sucking things hooked up to the circuit, then there is nothing to worry about.


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## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi;13729351*
> A 15 amp surge is very easy to do. I'm not talking about the server, I am talking about the garages GFI outlets. If one trips, the whole circuit goes down. Fridges often cause them to trip, and any large spike of power can cause it to trip. Air compressors cause the breakers to trip too. 1800 Watts is very easy to pull in a garage. If the OP doesn't have any power sucking things hooked up to the circuit, then there is nothing to worry about.


Or, since the OP is talking about installing an actual server machine in his garage, he could be smart about it, and use a battery backup solution.


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## PCCstudent

Beast, the one link I provided does state data centers are kept 5F too cool and I did come accross a article by Malcohlm Forbes that also feels many millions are wasted keeping data centers to cool. Then I did come across reports from Administrators that don't want to be caught with damaged equipment due to a hot room (trying to save on electricity). So the opinions and reasoning are pretty much all over the map in regards to just what is the proper balance.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airbozo;13725251*
> Dry heat in northern california? Are you out in the desert or something? I am in the Santa Cruz mountains which is near rain forest conditions most of the year...


i live in wine country. places out in sacramento and davis dont exactly have humid summers either so im not too worried about the humidity in the garage


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;13729550*
> Or, since the OP is talking about installing an actual server machine in his garage, he could be smart about it, and use a battery backup solution.


ill prolly get something like this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102070


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## lozanoa11

Lol you should see the where the computers are at my job. In a dusty hot (or cold) shop. water spraying everywhere, dusty, humid, still keep humming a long. Mind you they are not servers.


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## citruspers

Got a whole rack in my garage/garden shed. Ambient temps got up to 31 degrees fahrenheit in there, but the servers kept going just fine. No temp warning lights on the 1u units, and the larger ones just kept their fans at their base speed (none went to 100%).


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## snazy2000

I have all my servers in the garage, they are fine becuase of the heat they give off the dust may be a problem but if you have a desent server rack then you should be oks, i dont get much dust, but even if you have it in the house you will always get dust lol you cannot win


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snazy2000;13769316*
> I have all my servers in the garage, they are fine becuase of the heat they give off the dust may be a problem but if you have a desent server rack then you should be oks, i dont get much dust, but even if you have it in the house you will always get dust lol you cannot win


what kind of server rack do you use? i was thinking of just making a lack rack and throwing it in the garage now


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## citruspers

I have a double lack rack in the garage. Works great.


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## slngsht

Got a walk-in closet? build a shelf in there.


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## airbozo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kujon;13795590*
> what kind of server rack do you use? i was thinking of just making a lack rack and throwing it in the garage now


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *citruspers;13800057*
> I have a double lack rack in the garage. Works great.


lack rack?

BTW: I made my first equipment rack out of 2x4's and plywood. Lasted a very long time before I ditched it for my desk/rack.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slngsht;13800086*
> Got a walk-in closet? build a shelf in there.


wouldnt that not have enough air circulation?

here's a lack rack btw for whomever asked


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## citruspers

Yep. The lack is a cheap Ikea table which is exactly 19" wide between the legd, so it's perfect for rackservers.


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## kujon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *citruspers;13807744*
> Yep. The lack is a cheap Ikea table which is exactly 19" wide between the legd, so it's perfect for rackservers.


do you have one yourself? if yes, was it simple to install? ive been to their site but im trying to visually imagine the install. im also crappy with hand tools


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## citruspers

It's really easy, here's my setup:










You just need some L-brackets, screws and a screwdriver if you want extra stability. If you want, you can just stack the servers, but then you don't really need a Lack rack anyway...

In my case, the servers are resting on the L brackets (both on the front, and back legs), for better airflow. The two tables are also held together with L brackets.


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## SQLinsert

I think most people put their servers in their garage or basement. Btw if you need a inexpensive rack get a Middle Atlantic low-U rack. Check out the Slim-5 series. They aren't perma-welded and ship easily.


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## snazy2000

I have a HP Rack

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8SeEbh4oY0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8SeEbh4oY0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8SeEbh4oY0[/ame[/URL]]

My crap video but shows my old setup lots have changed since


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## trn

For 10 months I've been running 15 computers in my garage loaded at 100% crunching for the World Community Grid. No hardware issues yet, I live in a very humid and hot environment (Miami, FL.) CPU's are water cooled so they aren't an issue, I keep a fan on the NB and ram for a bit of cooling and everything is OK.

Depending on what is on the file server I may be a bit hesitant to run it in the garage though. I feel OK that CPU's and Mobo's and RAM (not mechanical items) will run OK as long as the cooling is good enough. But I think the first things to fail would be the mechanical items, HDD's, PSU's, and Fans. So for a file server the extra dust and grit in the garage environment might cause your file server to crash and lose data.

If I were to run a server in my garage I would make sure it was on the very top of my shelves, about 6'-6" off the ground to try and keep dust out of the HDD's and PSU.


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## cactusS4

I have my server in the garage, it does get a little more dirty inside, but I dont have to deal with the sound. The switch and it are on a 1500VA UPS. I am also in CA.


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## Sean Webster

It should be fine in the garage


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