# [Guru3D] AMD thanks user for reporting a major bug



## Final8ty

Quote:


> After finding and reporting a major bug in 14.9 WHQL drivers, AMD decided to thank me by gifting me a new GPU, an XFX 295X2 !
> 
> Massive thanks to Roy for the gift and Cy for getting it to me!
> 
> More pics will follow, right now I'm about to install this beast and hope my PSU is up to the task!


Quote:


> Win & P does nothing when Eyefinity is enabled, and Eyefinity 3.0 is their new feature of these drivers



http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=393794


----------



## Kand

Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


----------



## Artikbot

When you get to a certain amount of features, it becomes harder and harder to test every possible scenario.


----------



## Kand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> When you get to a certain amount of features, it becomes harder and harder to test every possible scenario.


Window + P seems like a very basic function.

If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?

I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.


----------



## xioros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


They could have missed it. It happens (but indeed, this is quite a major issue)
I'd love to seek bugs if I get a 295X2 if every time I find one


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


they might not get bugs on their end but it could very well get buggy with others in some fashion. there's only so much testing they can do, so relying on the community for bug feedback is the way to go to ensure bugs are noted and processed to be fixed.


----------



## Kand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JunkoXan*
> 
> they might not get bugs on their end but it could very well get buggy with others in some fashion. there's only so much testing they can do, so relying on the community for bug feedback is the way to go to ensure bugs are noted and processed to be fixed.


So we're Guinea Pigs.


----------



## Tsumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> So we're Guinea Pigs.


Patches exist for a reason.


----------



## djsi38t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> So we're Guinea Pigs.


Only if you choose to participate.

Obviously only so many hardware configurations can be tested,and ultimately the biggest test is when all hardware configurations are used.

This is an incredible gift for just reporting a bug don't you think?


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> So we're Guinea Pigs.


Let me know when you discover a piece of software with zero bugs in it, never needing an update or patch.


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JunkoXan*
> 
> they might not get bugs on their end but it could very well get buggy with others in some fashion. there's only so much testing they can do, so relying on the community for bug feedback is the way to go to ensure bugs are noted and processed to be fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> So we're Guinea Pigs.
Click to expand...

if you want to consider it like that, then free to do so. but if you want the drivers to be as bug free as possible it's a good start...


----------



## AgentHydra

So I've never gotten my 280X to run BF4 in DirectX mode, ever.

I'll take my 295X2 now.


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Let me know when you discover a piece of software with zero bugs in it, never needing an update or patch.


Agreed. It's always amusing when people don't understand that even the most extensively tested things have bugs or issues, even if they don't show up when the software in question is in regular use. Sheer numbers from around the world on various setups and configs will naturally discover something AMD didn't find purely because of probability factors. It's such a simple concept it's not even funny.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

A bug is something you can replicate in more then one system and can't be caused by user error and hardware defects.


----------



## mrawesome421

Holy crap what a gift.

Nice one. Glad that bug got sorted too.


----------



## Victor Yiu

You just can't test everything, nobody is perfect. It's great AMD are addressing these issues brought up by the community.


----------



## Particle

I don't understand why they would reward one random bug report when there are countless other more important bugs reported by users that they ignore forever.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Particle*
> 
> I don't understand why they would reward one random bug report when there are countless other more important bugs reported by users that they ignore forever.


Like there being no custom resolution utility in the Catalyst control center.

BOOOOO AMD BOOOOOO!








Thier professional firepro cards have it Nvidia has it on their consumer cards why the flipperdy flip don't they port it to their consumer drivers!


----------



## malzmidx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.
> 
> If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?
> 
> I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.


AMD Driver- 1 Bug









BattleField 4- 100 Bugs









^Just saying don't hate on one little bug









History shows that bugs show up out of what seems like nowhere. Would be kind of hard to test absolutely EVERYTHING.


----------



## DEW21689

While yes it is pretty sad that AMD missed this.... Keep in mind the driver was WHQL meaning MICROSOFTS testing process ALSO missed this....


----------



## nagle3092

I bet alot of bugs are going to get reported more often now. Maybe they will get their drivers in better shape now.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


In before haters find issues with this. w00ps to late.


----------



## axizor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nagle3092*
> 
> I bet alot of bugs are going to get reported more often now. Maybe they will get their drivers in better shape now.


Exactly. The gift was a very smart move on AMDs part.

You can blame QA all you want, but stuff like this happens.


----------



## nagle3092

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axizor*
> 
> Exactly. The gift was a very smart move on AMDs part.
> 
> You can blame QA all you want, but stuff like this happens.


They should have started doing this years ago IMO. But better late than never.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


I don't see how an active community improving drivers or a corporation giving it's gratitude where it is deserved is a bad thing. No matter how extensive testing you do, it won't be near as close to what millions of users can do.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I think spending 5 mins of your time to report a bug would only benefit everyone. Problem is most bug report are user errors. I am always trying to fond new bugs with little games i can and its very hard. No CF and optimization is not really a bug considering AMD knows too.


----------



## ebduncan

Thanks for reporting your bug.

I'm glad you were rewarded. AMD stands by its consumers who take the time to help the company out, and attend its events.

Amd has always treated me well at any of their events.


----------



## BlackVenom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.


True, however it wasn't a new feature; it may have been broken in the fix/update and not tested for various reasons. It's not anything critical at any rate... just downgrade drivers if need be or wait for a fix.


----------



## Explicit

Can I get a GPU if I submit the "Corrupted Mouse Cursor" bug?

Oh wait it's been in AMD drivers for years and they still haven't fixed it.


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Explicit*
> 
> Can I get a GPU if I submit the "Corrupted Mouse Cursor" bug?
> 
> Oh wait it's been in AMD drivers for years and they still haven't fixed it.


I've never had that happen to me on my AMD hardware I've had over the years..


----------



## tweezlednutball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Explicit*
> 
> Can I get a GPU if I submit the "Corrupted Mouse Cursor" bug?
> 
> Oh wait it's been in AMD drivers for years and they still haven't fixed it.


my asus board had that all the time. switched to asrock and now no issues.

the bug that this thread is about, is that the same bug that doesn't allow you to add new displays to an eyefinity configuration in extended mode and those monitors are doomed forever as clones until you unplug the monitor and disable eyefinity and then plug the display back in. god that was annoying and took me a whole night to figure out. now im sad i didn't report that one...


----------



## PostalTwinkie

As much as I want to say _"Good job AMD, awesome recognizing the end user finding such a glaring bug."_ Unfortunately, I can't really do that given their more recent track record. Frankly, this is just another PR stunt by AMD, more Twitter "ammo" for Roy to make himself look like a fool with. I can absolutely promise, if it hasn't already happen as of this writing, that AMD will use it to make a stab at Nvidia with.

I would lend a whole lot more credit to the sincerity of this thing, if it wasn't for the fact that AMD has a fairly lengthy record of just crap PR stunts over the last year or so. They have already shown they don't actually care about their customers, if they did they wouldn't blatantly lie to them, and are only doing it because they feel it might make them look good.

Glad the guy found the bug and that it was fixed, for everyone. I am really happy he got an awesome card for it as well. Too bad the feelings behind it weren't real.


----------



## xutnubu

Good, now give me downsampling.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


QC has not happened for years.


----------



## Cybertox

A 295 for reporting a bug?
Pretty sure that there were people out there who reported more significant bugs and got nothing.


----------



## fragamemnon

Hey, I also reported this issue.


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.
> 
> If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?
> 
> I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.


Might not have been in the Q&A checklist. Presumably it will be now. For proper Q&A one does not just goof around, there is a long list of things a QA engineer must check and if it's not in the list it will most likely be missed.


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


They all use us as Guinea pigs Nvidia, Amd, Intel, and OS's micro, firefox and so on ....

Its the norm, take your beta drivers! Public feedback is better than some test rig, as we on a whole are derivatives


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.
> 
> If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?
> 
> I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.


I haven't used it a single time in my life.


----------



## Olivon

LowL

AMD doesn't know what to invent in order we talk in good term about 'em


----------



## incog

What a nice gift. It's PR scheme without a doubt, but still, what a nice gift.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *incog*
> 
> What a nice gift. It's PR scheme without a doubt, but still, what a nice gift.


Not for those who fill out the bug form numerous times on each bug we encounter in each revision. No reward no fix where is my custom resolution utility!


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> A 295 for reporting a bug?
> Pretty sure that there were people out there who reported more significant bugs and got nothing.


The issue is not "significant bugs", but rather, overlooked features in a driver. Basically, AMD added a nice feature back in April of this year, this user got used to using it, and then it suddenly disappeared. Apparently, it was not AMD's intention to do such a thing, so they rewarded this guy for finding a bug that their QA team overlooked. I am almost certain that their QA team has a book or document with all the features in each driver, and they are given very specific instructions to test EVERY FEATURE in that document to make sure it's working before they release the driver to the public. No doubt, this feature is on the list of things to test.

The fact that a user found this means that AMD felt the need to pay them a reward because their paid QA team didn't find it. In other words, this guy got a $1000 video card, and someone on their QA team probably either got written up or fired.









...Or, it's simply a PR stunt to get user approval during a time in which Nvidia has the superior product. Whatever the reason, I'm glad this guy got a nice shiny new 295x2. That's one SERIOUS video card.


----------



## veyron1001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


Calm down, this isn't Dice. Amd is appealing to the customer. Some things are overlooked.


----------



## incog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cybertox*
> 
> A 295 for reporting a bug?
> Pretty sure that there were people out there who reported more significant bugs and got nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is not "significant bugs", but rather, overlooked features in a driver. Basically, AMD added a nice feature back in April of this year, this user got used to using it, and then it suddenly disappeared. Apparently, it was not AMD's intention to do such a thing, so they rewarded this guy for finding a bug that their QA team overlooked. I am almost certain that their QA team has a book or document with all the features in each driver, and they are given very specific instructions to test EVERY FEATURE in that document to make sure it's working before they release the driver to the public. No doubt, this feature is on the list of things to test.
> 
> The fact that a user found this means that AMD felt the need to pay them a reward because their paid QA team didn't find it. In other words, this guy got a $1000 video card, and someone on their QA team probably either got written up or fired.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Or, it's simply a PR stunt to get user approval during a time in which Nvidia has the superior product. Whatever the reason, I'm glad this guy got a nice shiny new 295x2. That's one SERIOUS video card.
Click to expand...

Well being fired for that kind of an oversight (it's big but it's not going to hurt AMD more than being bitten by a mosquito) seems quite excessive?


----------



## Bal3Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


Well think of all the combos users use amd cant test them all from differnt types of hardware to the software a user might use so reporting bugs is somthing that is needed.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> The fact that a user found this means that AMD felt the need to pay them a reward because their paid QA team didn't find it. In other words, this guy got a $1000 video card, and someone on their QA team probably either got written up or fired.


An individual probably was not blamed but the team(s). Basically, the developer(s), tester(s), and testing management failed.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.
> 
> If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?
> 
> I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.


~ i've not had a single error with AMD drivers since i went back to amd 16 months ago (after 3 years on nvidia); the drivers have been as good as any nvidia drivers i've had. both the amd cards were compromised purchases, i got the 7770 at a time i had zero cash and needed a replacement for my nvidia card; i really was hesitant but i got a great deal on the card ($80) and couldn't pass it by considering the nearest similar performing nvidia card was going for $40 more. This last spring i was planning on going back to nvidia and get a 780, then the price of AMD cards dropped like a stone and i stumbled into a brand new msi gaming r9-280x for $150. i couldn't' pass it up. the deal was too good. this card has been just as flawless as that 7770. zero driver issues, zero artifacts... zero noise (that was the surprising part, i went into the purchase expecting it to be loud because that was the knock on tahiti, but it seems that was a needless worry. I can't hear it over my h100, and the h100 is just barely audible sometimes.)

BTW: its pretty much standard policy in the software industry for rewarding people who find bugs. an r9-295x is a great reward, and it pays for itself because as word gets out others will be hunting for bugs like this in their drivers, which helps the company make them better. This is no different from what M$ does when a hacker finds an exploit and reports it to M$... believe me, M$ gives them cash for that.


----------



## assaulth3ro911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


Hey. If I got a card like that I don't really care. AT ALL. There will always be bugs, how do you know they didn't test extensively and missed this one? I'd rather be rewarded for finding them, whereas in most companies they just say thanks or don't even reply.


----------



## iSlayer

I know not everyone here is a computer scientist but I expected a little better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


"Bug testing can't prove the absence of bugs, only their presence."

So yes, user feedback is critical to software maintenance in plugging holes that other testing won't catch.

There is no such thing as perfect software. Everything has bugs, the only question is how big or small they are.


----------



## rt123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Like there being no custom resolution utility in the Catalyst control center.
> 
> BOOOOO AMD BOOOOOO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thier professional firepro cards have it Nvidia has it on their consumer cards why the flipperdy flip don't they port it to their consumer drivers!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Not for those who fill out the bug form numerous times on each bug we encounter in each revision. No reward no fix where is my custom resolution utility!


Looks like to me, what you are asking for is a feature request, not a Bug.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Looks like to me, what you are asking for is a feature request, not a Bug.


Not being able to run my 4K display out of the box is a obvious bug. They advertise 4K support and it is not there thus it is a bug.

What do they give me 1080i because their idiotic drivers detect it as a 1080i TV ridiculous. CRU fixes the problem but it is a problem that shouldn't exist or be fixable by using just the drivers.


----------



## Xuper

What Major bug ? You mean Quad CF Bug?


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *rt123*
> 
> Looks like to me, what you are asking for is a feature request, not a Bug.
> 
> 
> 
> Not being able to run my 4K display out of the box is a obvious bug. They advertise 4K support and it is not there thus it is a bug.
> 
> What do they give me 1080i because their idiotic drivers detect it as a 1080i TV ridiculous. CRU fixes the problem but it is a problem that shouldn't exist or be fixable by using just the drivers.
Click to expand...

Last week I ran some benches at 4k, hdmi to my 4k tv without a hitch. I guess you are going thru DP with a 4k monitor? I'm not much help but as I wrote, no problems connecting to a 4k tv here.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> The fact that a user found this means that AMD felt the need to pay them a reward because their paid QA team didn't find it. In other words, this guy got a $1000 video card, and someone on their QA team probably either got written up or fired.


I hope not. It's not infrequent to update code and accidentally break another portion of it (that was previously working). And especially portions of it that you would have never expected it to. Worst case they probably worked overtime to fix it. Though even that wouldn't be fair because that was hardly a driver breaking bug.


----------



## Seven7h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DEW21689*
> 
> While yes it is pretty sad that AMD missed this.... Keep in mind the driver was WHQL meaning MICROSOFTS testing process ALSO missed this....


WHQL doesn't include special feature testing. It just makes sure the rendering part of the driver doesn't break standard DX and OS specs.

Microsoft doesn't test clocks, special AA modes, Eyefinity/Surround, SLI, Crossfire, control panels, physx, DSR, G-Sync... Or anything like that.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


Remember the series of massive layoffs that AMD has gone through over the last several years (with another layoff of 7% coming soon)? _That's_ what happened to their testing.


----------



## caswow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Remember the series of massive layoffs that AMD has gone through over the last several years (with another layoff of 7% coming soon)? _That's_ what happened to their testing.


you think nvidia isnt doing the same?







:thumb:


----------



## Ulatec

This thread has become a giant allegiance war. Why can't we just say kudos to AMD and move on? It doesn't have to be a big deal.


----------



## erocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulatec*
> 
> This thread has become a giant allegiance war. Why can't we just say kudos to AMD and move on? It doesn't have to be a big deal.


People's insatiable need for self-affirmation (and the crap they buy) on the internet is above all things. Sadly...


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Do they really need users to report bugs? What about extensive testing?


When you sell a product that is going to be used on thousands of possible different systems, with different OS's, different chipsets, CPU, etc., there is no way you can test everything. Bug reporting is essential for ALL software, any gamers here will know that is the truth.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caswow*
> 
> you think nvidia isnt doing the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :thumb:


Are you hoping to get a free GPU from AMD, too? You've got to come up with more outrageous lies than that to get the attention of [email protected]









Anyhow, the last layoff I recall for NVIDIA was in 2008. AMD has had several rounds of layoffs since then, including two major ones in the last 3 years that Rory Read was CEO before being fired just recently.


----------



## caswow

i dont give a crap who layed off and how much. nvidia gets bugs reported too thats what i was saying...


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> When you sell a product that is going to be used on thousands of possible different systems, with different OS's, different chipsets, CPU, etc., there is no way you can test everything. Bug reporting is essential for ALL software, any gamers here will know that is the truth.


This wasn't so much a bug, as AMD just forgetting to put in an entire feature set. It would be a bug if the feature was there, but not working correctly; in this case it was completely absent.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> This wasn't so much a bug, as AMD just forgetting to put in an entire feature set. It would be a bug if the feature was there, but not working correctly; in this case it was completely absent.


Really that is just semantics, the ability to use multiple displays was not missing, just the shortcut of using Winkey+P to change among different display modes wasn't functioning. Classic bug right there.


----------



## Quantum Reality

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> When you get to a certain amount of features, it becomes harder and harder to test every possible scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> Window + P seems like a very basic function.
> 
> If they fail to incorporate that, what more the rest of the drivers?
> 
> I've personally had nothing but "AMD driver update? Yes this fixes this new game but breaks that other game!" back when I used to run AMD cards.
Click to expand...

I don't even know where to report this, but the 13.1 legacy drivers no longer let me use AMD Overdrive to control the fan speed on my HD4870, I have to use ATI Tray Tools for that.

So I'm not surprised there are bugs being introduced and old ones not being fixed in the rather complicated Catalyst suite of drivers + extra stuff.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> Really that is just semantics, the ability to use multiple displays was not missing, just the shortcut of using Winkey+P to change among different display modes wasn't functioning. Classic bug right there.


I would easily argue it ISN'T semantics.

A bug would be that the Win+P key function was there, just broken. In this case it was completely absent. Broken/Bugged isn't the same as completely missing. If anything it was a simple oversight by the folks at AMD, and it was caught by a user.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I would easily argue it ISN'T semantics.
> 
> A bug would be that the Win+P key function was there, just broken. In this case it was completely absent. Broken/Bugged isn't the same as completely missing. If anything it was a simple oversight by the folks at AMD, and it was caught by a user.


Win+P is not a feature, it is a shortcut that controls a feature.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> Win+P is not a feature, it is a shortcut that controls a feature.


Now you are splitting hairs.

Either way, it wasn't bugged, it was just completely missing.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Now you are splitting hairs.
> 
> Either way, it wasn't bugged, it was just completely missing.


This is totally one of those internet, um, discussions that you know are just a losing battle and no common ground will be found but I just can't help but pick at it one more time. The "feature" we are talking about is the ability to run different multi-display arrangements. Windows has a short cut built in to control that feature. You could still control that feature without the short cut, but it is convenient to have the short cut working as it is bog standard for any GPU today.
The feature was there, the short cut wasn't working. I guess you could call a short cut a feature, but that is stretching that term pretty far to me.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> This is totally one of those internet, um, discussions that you know are just a losing battle and no common ground will be found but I just can't help but pick at it one more time. The "feature" we are talking about is the ability to run different multi-display arrangements. Windows has a short cut built in to control that feature. You could still control that feature without the short cut, but it is convenient to have the short cut working as it is bog standard for any GPU today.
> The feature was there, the short cut wasn't working. I guess you could call a short cut a feature, but that is stretching that term pretty far to me.


bug;

an unexpected defect, fault, flaw, or imperfection

In order for something to be flawed, faulted, imperfect, or otherwise defective, it first must be present in the software. If it isn't present in the software, it is impossible to be bugged - as it doesn't exist.

The function of being able to use the Windows Key + P to switch was completely missing. If it weren't there, then it isn't possible for it to be bugged at all. This isn't an internet argument, as you are literally trying to argue a very explicit definition.

The absence of a feature/command/control/code isn't a bug, it is an oversight or omission. If it (Being able to use Win+P) was in the code, but not working, then by definition it would have been a bug. However, it appears that it was just completely missing, and thus wouldn't be a bug, but a simple omission.

Which isn't that big of a deal and it was fixed.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> bug;
> 
> an unexpected defect, fault, flaw, or imperfection
> 
> In order for something to be flawed, faulted, imperfect, or otherwise defective, it first must be present in the software. If it isn't present in the software, it is impossible to be bugged - as it doesn't exist.
> 
> The function of being able to use the Windows Key + P to switch was completely missing. If it weren't there, then it isn't possible for it to be bugged at all. This isn't an internet argument, as you are literally trying to argue a very explicit definition.
> 
> The absence of a feature/command/control/code isn't a bug, it is an oversight or omission. If it (Being able to use Win+P) was in the code, but not working, then by definition it would have been a bug. However, it appears that it was just completely missing, and thus wouldn't be a bug, but a simple omission.
> 
> Which isn't that big of a deal and it was fixed.


The short cut is a Windows short cut, the AMD drivers were not handling that short cut while in Eyefinity mode, but otherwise it was. Definitely a bug.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djsi38t*
> 
> Only if you choose to participate.
> 
> Obviously only so many hardware configurations can be tested,and ultimately the biggest test is when all hardware configurations are used.
> 
> This is an incredible gift for just reporting a bug don't you think?


Well, when you consider many major software platforms regularly offer thousands of dollars for a bug, no.


----------



## Hueristic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> bug;
> 
> an unexpected defect, fault, flaw, or imperfection
> 
> In order for something to be flawed, faulted, imperfect, or otherwise defective, it first must be present in the software. If it isn't present in the software, it is impossible to be bugged - as it doesn't exist.
> 
> The function of being able to use the Windows Key + P to switch was completely missing. If it weren't there, then it isn't possible for it to be bugged at all. This isn't an internet argument, as you are literally trying to argue a very explicit definition.
> 
> The absence of a feature/command/control/code isn't a bug, it is an oversight or omission. If it (Being able to use Win+P) was in the code, but not working, then by definition it would have been a bug. However, it appears that it was just completely missing, and thus wouldn't be a bug, but a simple omission.
> 
> Which isn't that big of a deal and it was fixed.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> The short cut is a Windows short cut, the AMD drivers were not handling that short cut while in Eyefinity mode, but otherwise it was. Definitely a bug.


And I was just walking out the door!


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hueristic*
> 
> And I was just walking out the door!












I actually think we agree on what a bug is, just not if this was a bug or not. Although it is starting to sound like the code was indeed there, and just not working - which would be a bug. Details on the whole thing are a bit sketch, as it is a combination of another forum and Twitter.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Last week I ran some benches at 4k, hdmi to my 4k tv without a hitch. I guess you are going thru DP with a 4k monitor? I'm not much help but as I wrote, no problems connecting to a 4k tv here.


It is a TV set it worked out of the box with the Nvidia controll panel but not with CCC. Neither DP to hdmi nor direct hdmi works out of the box to make things worse it only gives the option for 1080i but I fixed it with toastyx's cru so I'm very gratefull to toastyx. Otherwise I had to mess around with edid files which are a pain on new versions of windows which incorporate driver signing.


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> It is a TV set it worked out of the box with the Nvidia controll panel but not with CCC. Neither DP to hdmi nor direct hdmi works out of the box to make things worse it only gives the option for 1080i but I fixed it with toastyx's cru so I'm very gratefull to toastyx. Otherwise I had to mess around with edid files which are a pain on new versions of windows which incorporate driver signing.


That's AMDs feature by this point. This was the reason for me not to consider AMD anymore. After few days of trying to config amd gpu I just returned it and bought nvidia.
Forcing resolution, stretching screen to be actually in full screen on TV set is not something that should be done.


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> That's AMDs feature by this point. This was the reason for me not to consider AMD anymore. After few days of trying to config amd gpu I just returned it and bought nvidia.
> Forcing resolution, stretching screen to be actually in full screen on TV set is not something that should be done.


Wait, are you saying you cant run 4k on tv out of the box with amd gpu? Because I know for sure, that it worked without issues with 7950 and r9 290 (and sony 55x9005), simple plug and play.


----------



## RagingCain

I expect better from a multi-billion dollar company. I think you all should as well, but that's just my humble opinion.

If you never raise the bar for AMD, they will never reach for it.

Same thing with consoles, if people don't officially raise the bar for 60 FPS, they will keep getting away with 30, and then 24 FPS (for that "cinematic look".)

The consumer is the most powerful entity, just that the consumer has to exercise self-control and not consume.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Wait, are you saying you cant run 4k on tv out of the box with amd gpu? Because I know for sure, that it worked without issues with 7950 and r9 290 (and sony 55x9005), simple plug and play.


I'm saying it doesn't work with some TV sets and there is no way in the drivers to set the resolution manually. I was one of the first to get a 4K TV from China when they weren't out here and with Nvidia it was smooth sailing on their desktop gpus but with AMD it was very much a pain. Advertising how great 4K is and having it not work is just false advertising.


----------



## MSim

If he lives in the US AMD probably asked for his SSN# to make sure they receive a tax write off and make sure he pays the gift tax. AMD did the same thing to everyone that won a copy of BF4 from it's facebook page.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Shouldn't the 295X2 have a price drop in the $650 range?

That said, I still can't install the latest drivers without the screen freezing or going black when eyefinity is enabled...


----------



## xioros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> Shouldn't the 295X2 have a price drop in the $650 range?
> 
> That said, I still can't install the latest drivers without the screen freezing or going black when eyefinity is enabled...


Have you tried disabling eyefinity, then update and then installing the new drivers?
If AMD swaps drivers on the fly (like Nvidia, without reboot etc) and you're running a feature not supported by the Microsoft-stock driver, I'm not even surprised it crashes.

Yes, the AMD installer _should_ disable eyefinity before swapping, but hey, don't complain about issues that occur once (unless you reinstall the same driver everyday, just for the lulz?) and can be easily worked around.

Besides, the green camp has driver issues too. It happens. Be glad AMD doesn't fry the card when bugs occur


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xioros*
> 
> Have you tried disabling eyefinity, then update and then installing the new drivers?
> If AMD swaps drivers on the fly (like Nvidia, without reboot etc) and you're running a feature not supported by the Microsoft-stock driver, I'm not even surprised it crashes.
> 
> Yes, the AMD installer _should_ disable eyefinity before swapping, but hey, don't complain about issues that occur once (unless you reinstall the same driver everyday, just for the lulz?) and can be easily worked around.
> 
> Besides, the green camp has driver issues too. It happens. Be glad AMD doesn't fry the card when bugs occur


Sorry for using eyefinity generically for 3 displays running. The previous drivers were all uninstalled manually so windows drivers were in play during installation. Either way, I run into issues with installing AMD Catalyst completely. The drivers get installed and the system freezes and never finishes the full installation. So I am currently using 14.9 WHQL without Catalyst installed. Crossfire still seems to be enabled but I don't have any means of enabling eyefinity currently









I haven't had the time to spend hours to get the drivers to install properly...


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Wait, are you saying you cant run 4k on tv out of the box with amd gpu? Because I know for sure, that it worked without issues with 7950 and r9 290 (and sony 55x9005), simple plug and play.


My tv isn't 4k. I had these issues on 1080p tv sets.
Out of the box was 1080i and not stretched to full screen. 5cm border around the picture.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> My tv isn't 4k. I had these issues on 1080p tv sets.
> Out of the box was 1080i and not stretched to full screen. 5cm border around the picture.


and it felt sluggish and looked hideous?
Yeah that is what mine did too!


----------



## xioros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xioros*
> 
> Have you tried disabling eyefinity, then update and then installing the new drivers?
> If AMD swaps drivers on the fly (like Nvidia, without reboot etc) and you're running a feature not supported by the Microsoft-stock driver, I'm not even surprised it crashes.
> 
> Yes, the AMD installer _should_ disable eyefinity before swapping, but hey, don't complain about issues that occur once (unless you reinstall the same driver everyday, just for the lulz?) and can be easily worked around.
> 
> Besides, the green camp has driver issues too. It happens. Be glad AMD doesn't fry the card when bugs occur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for using eyefinity generically for 3 displays running. The previous drivers were all uninstalled manually so windows drivers were in play during installation. Either way, I run into issues with installing AMD Catalyst completely. The drivers get installed and the system freezes and never finishes the full installation. So I am currently using 14.9 WHQL without Catalyst installed. Crossfire still seems to be enabled but I don't have any means of enabling eyefinity currently
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had the time to spend hours to get the drivers to install properly...
Click to expand...

Sorry for going off track, but that do you mean with "generically"? Eyefinity is a software driver that merges the 3 displays as one display for windows. 3 monitors side by side is not eyefinity. As far as I know, MS does not have a multi-display-to-single-rendering-plane-ish function in the MS drivers?
That aside, have you _tried_ running of one monitor to install the driver?

What your stating does not sound like a driver problem from AMD, more like a driver conflict or registry settings messing stuff up.

EDIT: hence, let them know and file a bugreport (no, wait! I want that free 295X2








)


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I'm saying it doesn't work with some TV sets and there is no way in the drivers to set the resolution manually. I was one of the first to get a 4K TV from China when they weren't out here and with Nvidia it was smooth sailing on their desktop gpus but with AMD it was very much a pain. Advertising how great 4K is and having it not work is just false advertising.


Only thing I know it worked for me, out of the box without any issues and I could switch resolution from 2160p to 1080p in catalyst. So it definitely isnt general issue with amd cards or drivers. It certainly isnt even general issue with amd cards and chinese tvs, because I know few people who used seiki monitors with amd cards - without issues (apart from terrible panel, backlighting and 30hz







).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> My tv isn't 4k. I had these issues on 1080p tv sets.
> Out of the box was 1080i and not stretched to full screen. 5cm border around the picture.


Man, I connected dozen of pcs/notebooks with amd cards (newer and older) to hdtvs, and I can tell you that I never encountered such problem, literally I dont remember single time when gpu would output 1080i to 1080p tv on default. Only sometimes I had to change overscan settings. You probably had a bad card and should have rmad it. It definitely isnt "amd feature."


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Only thing I know it worked for me, out of the box without any issues and I could switch resolution from 2160p to 1080p in catalyst. So it definitely isnt general issue with amd cards or drivers. It certainly isnt even general issue with amd cards and chinese tvs, because I know few people who used seiki monitors with amd cards - without issues (apart from terrible panel, backlighting and 30hz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> Man, I connected dozen of pcs/notebooks with amd cards (newer and older) to hdtvs, and I can tell you that I never encountered such problem, literally I dont remember single time when gpu would output 1080i to 1080p tv on default. Only sometimes I had to change overscan settings. You probably had a bad card and should have rmad it. It definitely isnt "amd feature."


The Seiki panel is also in my tv it is top notch but Seiki used the poorest transceiver ever in that TV making it pretty bad.
Either way I had the problem with this TV on a R9 290, HD7850, HD5870, R7 M260 and the integrated graphics in my Beema processor. They should just add custom resolution as it really is a missing feature/fix for many.


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The Seiki panel is also in my tv it is top notch but Seiki used the poorest transceiver ever in that TV making it pretty bad.
> Either way I had the problem with this TV on a R9 290, HD7850, HD5870, R7 M260 and the integrated graphics in my Beema processor. They should just add custom resolution as it really is a missing feature/fix for many.


Well, if you reported the issue with all the cards you mentioned and amd didnt respond, than its very poor handling from them.









But I would not expect 295x even if you actually found out what is the problem and emailed it to them as troubleshooting incompatibilities with chinese tvs arent going to be at top of their priority list.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> and it felt sluggish and looked hideous?
> Yeah that is what mine did too!


I had significant issues getting my previous HTPC, using an AMD APU, to scale properly to any of my TVs. It wouldn't work on any of the TVs we have in the house without excessive tweaking.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Well, if you reported the issue with all the cards you mentioned and amd didnt respond, than its very poor handling from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I would not expect 295x even if you actually found out what is the problem and emailed it to them as troubleshooting incompatibilities with chinese tvs arent going to be at top of their priority list.


I did report the issue for my R9 290, 7850 and my 5870 and it hasn't been fixed actually nobody even contacted me while I gave all my contact information on the form.

I don't want anything for my bug report I just hope they fix it by adding an option for custom resolutions. Their Firepro line has it there is really no reason to not port it over for the consumers to enjoy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I had significant issues getting my previous HTPC, using an AMD APU, to scale properly to any of my TVs. It wouldn't work on any of the TVs we have in the house without excessive tweaking.


Yeah they can be quite a hassle some times.


----------



## Tsumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I had significant issues getting my previous HTPC, using an AMD APU, to scale properly to any of my TVs. It wouldn't work on any of the TVs we have in the house without excessive tweaking.


Really? In my experience, AMD APUs and GPUs have been far better for me, especially with nVidia removing overscan/underscan settings from their drivers and forcing you to use custom resolutions, as most TVs tend to underscan. Or something, I forget which is which.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsumi*
> 
> Really? In my experience, AMD APUs and GPUs have been far better for me, especially with nVidia removing overscan/underscan settings from their drivers and forcing you to use custom resolutions, as most TVs tend to underscan. Or something, I forget which is which.


My wife's Yoga 2 Pro scales perfectly with the Intel HD, the exception being the icon sizing. Windows 8 has terrible management of icon sizing when you scale ultra high resolutions to lower resolutions. However, the actual field of view drops perfectly down to 1080P, from the insane resolution of her Yoga.

My desktop hooks right up to it and works without a single tweak. That damn APU though, not for the life of me would it just work.


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Man, I connected dozen of pcs/notebooks with amd cards (newer and older) to hdtvs, and I can tell you that I never encountered such problem, literally I dont remember single time when gpu would output 1080i to 1080p tv on default. Only sometimes I had to change overscan settings. You probably had a bad card and should have rmad it. It definitely isnt "amd feature."


https://www.google.co.il/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=amd+gpu+doesn't+fit+to+screen
https://www.google.co.il/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=amd+gpu+black+border

Literally thousands of posts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> and it felt sluggish and looked hideous?
> Yeah that is what mine did too!


Didn't try it for too long, 10 minutes googling revealed that it's a known issue with 1230 fixes that might or might not work. Knew amd drivers had issues all the time, accepted the fact that I'm supposed to pay premium with nvidia also because of the working software.


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> https://www.google.co.il/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=amd+gpu+doesn't+fit+to+screen
> https://www.google.co.il/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=amd+gpu+black+border
> 
> Literally thousands of posts.
> Didn't try it for too long, 10 minutes googling revealed that it's a known issue with 1230 fixes that might or might not work. Knew amd drivers had issues all the time, accepted the fact that I'm supposed to pay premium with nvidia also because of the working software.


Really? I just changed _amd_ gpu black border to _nvidia_ gpu black border and guess what? Instead of apx 54500 results I got apx 64000 results... Does that mean its is also a known issue and that you paid premium to nvidia for hardware that might or might not work?


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Really? I just changed _amd_ gpu black border to _nvidia_ gpu black border and guess what? Instead of apx 54500 results I got apx 64000 results... Does that mean its is also a known issue and that you paid premium to nvidia for hardware that might or might not work?


No idea what is apx 54500 or 64000.
Not a single issue with resolution on nvidia gpu's.
9600, 9800, 470, 470 sli, 480, 560ti, 970.
Lg/Phillips/Samsung TV's, 43 to 65 inches.
Plug and play all of them, without a single issue.
Plug in AMD gpu and BAM borders a.k.a black bars. And another surprise by amd after removing their driver in form of exe that loaded at startup and kept nvidia gpu at 100%.
So yes, really. And all of this even before all the drivers issues in games


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> Plug in AMD gpu and BAM borders a.k.a black bars. And another surprise by amd after removing their driver in form of exe that loaded at startup and kept nvidia gpu at 100%.
> So yes, really. And all of this even before all the drivers issues in games


Obvious amd sabotage is obvious!









apx = approximately


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Obvious amd sabotage is obvious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apx = approximately


Open those threads, keywords in those will be - "gpu" "black borders". Most of them are hijacked by amd gpu's. With nvidia there are 2 settings that you need. 1st set gpu res. to 1080p then set your tv to scan. That's it.
But yes, sabotage... There are no issues with amd software, never were either. It's all made up.

Seriously, there's no big enough facepalm for that post.


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> Open those threads, keywords in those will be - "gpu" "black borders". Most of them are hijacked by amd gpu's. With nvidia there are 2 settings that you need. 1st set gpu res. to 1080p then set your tv to scan. That's it.


Sure. And I bet you checked all these threads in 10 minutes googling.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> Open those threads, keywords in those will be - "gpu" "black borders". Most of them are hijacked by amd gpu's. With nvidia there are 2 settings that you need. 1st set gpu res. to 1080p then set your tv to scan. That's it.
> But yes, sabotage... There are no issues with amd software, never were either. It's all made up.
> 
> Seriously, there's no big enough facepalm for that post.


Well both camps have issues really but not being able to fix something as simple as a resolution problem due to how poor the custom resolution options in the AMD drivers are makes them worse than Nv's on that particular point. Most people will do fine with both and the reason is because most displays are correctly detected but when it doesn't work you're all on your own


----------



## ACM

How about the freaking bug on 14.9 where my monitor won't wake up from a sleep state and the only way to fix it is to restart the whole computer.
I had to roll back to 14.4 to fix this problem, who cares about Win + P.
Priorities AMD, PRIORITIES!


----------



## Kand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACM*
> 
> How about the freaking bug on 14.9 where my monitor won't wake up from a sleep state and the only way to fix it is to restart the whole computer.
> I had to roll back to 14.4 to fix this problem, who cares about Win + P.
> Priorities AMD, PRIORITIES!


Perfect example of "Fixes one thing, breaks another".

Typical AMD.

You should report that on their official forum. Who knows, you might bet a 390x.


----------



## antd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Let me know when you discover a piece of software with zero bugs in it, never needing an update or patch.


Here is a perfect piece of software with absolutely zero bugs:

Code:



Code:


// A piece of software with zero bugs (ANSI C)

int main (void)
{
        return 0;
}

You can optionally add extra functionality, but just be very careful.


----------

