# Logitech G102 Prodigy



## Sencha

Next to a glass of urine! Nice!


----------



## ND9512

Just wonder what sensor does it have, AM010 can not go that high ?


----------



## iceskeleton

huh wonder if the cable is different


----------



## maddada

Might not have rgb lights? just a single blue color.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddada*
> 
> Might not have rgb lights? just a single blue color.


def no rgb lights

looks to be like the g302/3 split, where this will be the budget version with a different sensor


----------



## IlIkeJuice

You'd think it'd be cheaper to just run the G Pro board, than have a whole new sensor implementation.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ND9512*
> 
> 
> Just wonder what sensor does it have, AM010 can not go that high ?


Qsxcv made a thread about hacking 010. It technically can be set to 10500 or something. Not that it's usable with that dpi. Maybe it's upgraded 010 with some kind of sauce that allowed it to go from 4000 to 6000.


----------



## ncck

What is this and why is this happening lol


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> What is this and why is this happening lol


This one's the version that gets sold in the millions to PC bangs. Or for people who only want to spend $20.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> This one's the version that gets sold in the millions to PC bangs. Or for people who only want to spend $20.


Watch it be the only one with a rubber cable


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Watch it be the only one with a rubber cable


That could be worse because the last rubber cables I've seen from them were super terrible, were stiffer than the braided ones on the G403, etc.


----------



## Straszy

http://www.pixart.com.tw/product_data.asp?product_id=158&productclassify_id=1&productclassify2_id=3&productclassify_name=Optical%20Navigation&productclassify2_name=Gaming&partnumber=PMW3330DM%E2%80%90TZQU ?


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straszy*
> 
> http://www.pixart.com.tw/product_data.asp?product_id=158&productclassify_id=1&productclassify2_id=3&productclassify_name=Optical%20Navigation&productclassify2_name=Gaming&partnumber=PMW3330DM%E2%80%90TZQU ?


3.8 m/s actually sounds decent.


----------



## Aliandro1d

3330 g pro







NAISUU anyone have experience with a 3330? are there even other mouse with this? I'm kinda hyped this will be like the g302(cheap) but of the G pro design and an actual good sensor, i think with this we've oficially entered the era of mice with tracking speeds we'll never reach being cheap as hell. RIP 3090, fck u 3050. If it's around 30 euro









Better not be like the G90 and asia exclusive or something wierd


----------



## Aliandro1d

Ok just read(as would be expected) this is to replace the g100 AND be in the same price range. For anyone who wants a G pro i would hold out for this cheaper and still has a great sensor.


----------



## a_ak57

I'm surprised it has side buttons, would have figured they'd leave them off to create an additional reason for buying the Pro (and to make this even more of a G100 replacement).


----------



## vanir1337

Well played Logitech, well played.


----------



## Melan

I wonder if Logitech is done with their fusion engine. AM010 with gyro was a rather solid combo.


----------



## fatmario

are we expecting g503 soon to ?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I wonder if Logitech is done with their fusion engine. AM010 with gyro was a rather solid combo.


And expensive.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> 3.8 m/s actually sounds decent.


not so good if you look at the characteristics of g100s.


----------



## m0uz

Oh baby, yes please!

About the 150ips thing, remember the 3366 can do 10m/s while advertised as 300 ips


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> not so good if you look at the characteristics of g100s.


Huh? G100s had like 2.7 which would fail with every faster flick for me, 3.8 is actually usable imo. I very very rarely go above that.


----------



## m0uz

Jeez, people! Manufacturer specifications! 3090 could only do "60 ips" remember?


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Huh? G100s had like 2.7 which would fail with every faster flick for me, 3.8 is actually usable imo. I very very rarely go above that.


I have 3.0-3.21 in enotus. That not much less than 3.8
Ps:
Now I rechecked and have this at 600dpi in LGS


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> I have 3.0-3.21 in enotus. That not much less than 3.8


Enotus is wrong though. It rounds to the nearest 200 CPI step which is always off. Especially if you use it at 500 CPI.
Use mouse tester, set it to real CPI value. It dead on malfunctions at 2.6-2.8 m/s. Also 3.8 m/s is the same spec as 3360, which in reality goes well beyond 6 m/s easily.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Jeez, people! Manufacturer specifications! 3090 could only do "60 ips" remember?


This.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatmario*
> 
> are we expecting g503 soon to ?


Also wondering if there will be a "PRO" version of a bigger mouse like 400/500 series.


----------



## wonderboysam

plz no surface tuning bull****

really didn't like the 3366 but loved the shapes of g303/G Pro


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> plz no surface tuning bull****
> 
> really didn't like the 3366 but loved the shapes of g303/G Pro


What's the problem exactly? You can just not use the surface tuning and leave it at default, that's what I do.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> not so good if you look at the characteristics of g100s.


It's not about relative numbers, it's about threshold. Alot of people reach 2.7, i reeeeeeeeallly doubt as many reach 3.8. Basically what Ino pointed out. Doesn't bother me with my 17/360 and accel anyway.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> What's the problem exactly? You can just not use the surface tuning and leave it at default, that's what I do.


Exactly. lol


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> Ok just read(as would be expected) this is to replace the g100 AND be in the same price range. For anyone who wants a G pro i would hold out for this cheaper and still has a great sensor.


If it's going to replace the G100s it better weigh 70g without a weight inside.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> plz no surface tuning bull****
> 
> really didn't like the 3366 but loved the shapes of g303/G Pro


You are not supposed to use surface tuning on cloth pads. It's more for hard pads that give you high LOD.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> And expensive.


Well, their mice aren't exactly cheap anyways. Might as well stuff that gyro in.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> What's the problem exactly? You can just not use the surface tuning and leave it at default, that's what I do.


Yea the default didn't feel good to me :|

ended up just using my g302 instead of g303

I wouldn't be suprised if this is the mouse most pros are actually using instead of the G Pro


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Yea the default didn't feel good to me :|
> 
> ended up just using my g302 instead of g303
> 
> I wouldn't be suprised if this is the mouse most pros are actually using instead of the G Pro


face to the nearest palm asap


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> face to the nearest palm asap


I'm not the only one to say it, I have been playing cs about 15 years and am currently Global elite (I still don't consider myself good)


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Yea the default didn't feel good to me :|
> 
> ended up just using my g302 instead of g303
> 
> I wouldn't be suprised if this is the mouse most pros are actually using instead of the G Pro


Fair enough. At least 2, maybe 3 of the guys on cloud 9 have switched to the g pro. N0thing still uses his modified g100s. My guess would be that the other 2 aren't using it because they want larger mice, meaning they probably aren't using the 303 either but I'm not sure.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, their mice aren't exactly cheap anyways. Might as well stuff that gyro in.


Wouldnt say they are expensive given hardware, especially not G402 with its pricedrop.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> I'm not the only one to say it, I have been playing cs about 15 years and am currently Global elite (I still don't consider myself good)


Who else said it?


----------



## Poodle

I bet this is the real Logitech version without sensor rattle or other loose parts.

edit. no kappa


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> I bet this is the real Logitech version without sensor rattle or other loose parts.
> 
> edit. no kappa


This "sensor rattle" claim is getting out of hand.


----------



## kd5151




----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> I bet this is the real Logitech version without sensor rattle or other loose parts.
> 
> edit. no kappa
> 
> 
> 
> This "sensor rattle" claim is getting out of hand.
Click to expand...

It's cool all these super pros who probably couldn't tell there was smoothing or jitter on their old stuff could def tell if the lens moved a little bit.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's cool all these super pros who probably couldn't tell there was smoothing or jitter on their old stuff could def tell if the lens moved a little bit.


Cuz mild smoothing is not important at all, when it comes to actual gaming.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FatalProximity*
> 
> Fair enough. At least 2, maybe 3 of the guys on cloud 9 have switched to the g pro. N0thing still uses his modified g100s. My guess would be that the other 2 aren't using it because they want larger mice, meaning they probably aren't using the 303 either but I'm not sure.


Proof of his 100s is modified?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Wouldnt say they are expensive given hardware, especially not G402 with its pricedrop.


And with 3366 being stuffed pretty much everywhere now, probably theres no more point for AM010 with gyro. Extra pcs for extra $$$.


----------



## SEJB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Proof of his 100s is modified?


His sensitivity and his swipes.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Proof of his 100s is modified?


Not proof but I know for a fact that the G100s tracks awfully on hard pads. I mean properly jumps around all over the place if you move it at any low-moderate speed


----------



## FatalProximity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Proof of his 100s is modified?


People were discussing this in the G Pro thread. I believe there was a quote from someone close to their team who had mentioned it was modified. I have no absolute proof but Its not that far fetched to believe he has a custom mouse considering logitech has the team involved in testing and feedback of the new mice. My guess would be that he has the 3366 sensor in his g100s and maybe some weight reduction.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Sensor position?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> Sensor position?


3330 is same layout and size as the 3360, I believe. Probably the same as Pro.


----------



## Derp

The image on the box appears to show a regular non-braided cable and a different scroll wheel design. Both upgrades over the GPRO.


----------



## Longasc

Seems photoshopped to me.

http://gaming.logitech.com/assets/64687/10/pro-gaming-mouse.png

Looks exactly the same as a G Pro. The cord just got faded out.


----------



## m0uz

That might be because... umm... it is exactly the same as the G Pro except for the cable and sensor

derp


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The image on the box appears to show a regular non-braided cable and a different scroll wheel design. Both upgrades over the GPRO.


not if it is a rubber cable like the 402
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Proof of his 100s is modified?


In this video it doesnt sound like it is custom made (it is from the beginning of the year tho) https://youtu.be/aYMyYkFCnJs?t=3m18s. He uses a custom mousepad tho.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> Seems photoshopped to me.
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/assets/64687/10/pro-gaming-mouse.png
> 
> Looks exactly the same as a G Pro. The cord just got faded out.


Looks like you're right. I must have had my optimism goggles on a bit too tight.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEJB*
> 
> His sensitivity and his swipes.


I had the same setup as Jordan. The G100s never malfunctioned on me. I use a cloth pad though.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's cool all these super pros who probably couldn't tell there was smoothing or jitter on their old stuff could def tell if the lens moved a little bit.


i recently fixed my g303 and it feels waýyyyyy better mine was from the original batch and had allot of rattle. Stuck a piece of black tape over the lens hole and gave it a slight rattle i was getting about a centimetre of movement. In paint every time i swiped the lines were ending with a sharp 4mm line going diagonal downwards. The rattle really is bad and made my g303 un usable until i fixed it. Smoothing depending on the lvl of it, is unnoticeable by everyone.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That rattle was probably the wheel, not the lens.


It is easy to check. Go to paint, cover the lens with tape, push lmb and shake the mouse.
If its lens - u will see lines on screen. If it's wheel - you will see the dot


----------



## Straszy

http://imgur.com/a/RJgQK


----------



## popups

Why are people now complaining about getting their wanted Omron actuation force instead of stiffer Zowie buttons?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why are people now complaining about getting their wanted Omron actuation force instead of stiffer Zowie buttons?


I think he means pissed if the mouse itself is lighter because he will want it over a G Pro which I'm guessing he has? IDK. I don't get the light mouse button complaints though. 40-50g is about the ideal m1 and m2 force to me (well technically 40-50g * 9.8m/s^2, but you know what I mean).


----------



## Marctraider

Um.. you guys ever tried a FK2? lol... 1000g actuation force


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I think he means pissed if the mouse itself is lighter because he will want it over a G Pro which I'm guessing he has? IDK. I don't get the light mouse button complaints though. 40-50g is about the ideal m1 and m2 force to me (well technically 40-50g * 9.8m/s^2, but you know what I mean).


The Omrons are 45-75g switches. The Logitech mice are giving people what they want more than other mice do. So people either want 45-75g Omrons or stiffer switches.

I like switches that have a pronounced return and distinct click in both directions. I would want them to be light enough not to upset my aim while tracking and clicking or spraying.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> Um.. you guys ever tried a FK2? lol... 1000g actuation force


The switches in my ZA are close to Omrons. Obviously, the shell adds to that regardless of where you press.

My modified FK and AM are close to what you get from Omron equipped mice.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Omrons are 45-75g switches. The Logitech mice are giving people what they want more than other mice do. So people either want 45-75g Omrons or stiffer switches.
> 
> I like switches that have pronounced return and distinct click in both directions. I would want them to be light enough not to upset my aim while tracking and clicking or spraying.
> The switches in my ZA are close to Omrons. Obviously, the shell adds to that regardless of where you press.
> 
> My modified FK and AM are close to what you get from Omron equipped mice.


The force to actuate the switch isn't necisarily the force to actuate the button though. There is also how much leverage the place you are pressing has, the stiffness of the shell, and how much tension the spring is applying in the case of logitech spring tensioned stuff. My g303 buttons both end up around 40g near the end where I actually press the buttons.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Not proof but I know for a fact that the G100s tracks awfully on hard pads. I mean properly jumps around all over the place if you move it at any low-moderate speed


Never once had that problem with my Manticor & G100s, or the G402.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The force to actuate the switch isn't necisarily the force to actuate the button though. There is also how much leverage the place you are pressing has, the stiffness of the shell, and how much tension the spring is applying in the case of logitech spring tensioned stuff. My g303 buttons both end up around 40g near the end where I actually press the buttons.


The Omron switches are supposed to be within 45-75g, thus you are getting close to spec for that switch. If that is too light for you then you want stiffer switches like the Huanos or the 150g Omrons.


----------



## zeflow

I hope this doesn't mean the g pro's price doesn't come down like the 303 did eventually. I still plan to buy 10+..


----------



## kicksome

i'll probably buy one of these cause im not sure on the shape. It'll be cheaper than the G Pro


----------



## daniel0731ex

Does anyone know the weight yet?


----------



## chr1spe

Show the back of the box


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> Um.. you guys ever tried a FK2? lol... 1000g actuation force


The FK2 isn't for children to use it's made for Men and it's perfect as is, despite the sensor







.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> The FK2 isn't for children to use it's made for Men and it's perfect as is, despite the sensor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sometimes I can't even tell if you are joking or not.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Sometimes I can't even tell if you are joking or not.


He only writes poetry.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> It is easy to check. Go to paint, cover the lens with tape, push lmb and shake the mouse.
> If its lens - u will see lines on screen. If it's wheel - you will see the dot


I know, I did that test in all my recent reviews with 3366/3360. However afaik nobody thought of this way to test back when the G303 was released.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I know, I did that test in all my recent reviews with 3366/3360. However afaik nobody thought of this way to test back when the G303 was released.


Its also still not perfectly accurate. At a certain point I'm pretty sure the tape actually moves due to air unless it is stiff tape and/or very tightly stretched and even then idk. At like 12000dpi a count is what? 2 micrometers or something?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I know, I did that test in all my recent reviews with 3366/3360. However afaik nobody thought of this way to test back when the G303 was released.


The sensor rattle on the G303 was very different. The lens moved a lot. You could push it around from the outside with a toothpick and could feel and see it moving. There was then no need to try to be super accurate about a test for the problem.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The sensor rattle on the G303 was very different. The lens moved a lot. You could push it around from the outside with a toothpick and could feel and see it moving. There was then no need to try to be super accurate about a test for the problem.


I'm pretty sure some of them had it to differing degrees. I don't know though. I've only had one and it has absolutely no lens rattle I'm fairly certain. Idk if I was the first to do a test like this, but I did come up with a test kind of like this and didn't bother with checking above like 2k dpi, but there was no motion. I also used the mouse movement recorder program instead of paint and taped a small piece of mousepad over the sensor feet instead of just using tape that tracked because the first tape I found was packing tape.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The sensor rattle on the G303 was very different. The lens moved a lot. You could push it around from the outside with a toothpick and could feel and see it moving. There was then no need to try to be super accurate about a test for the problem.


From what I remember there where some units with that issue, but from my units none had it. I could however generate a rattling sound with violently shaking it.
That's why I assumed that 5/5 units having that noise would rather be the wheel (or whatever) because having a lose lens on that many units would be really tough luck. Still possible of course.


----------



## Straszy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> From what I remember there where some units with that issue, but from my units none had it. I could however generate a rattling sound with violently shaking it.
> That's why I assumed that 5/5 units having that noise would rather be the wheel (or whatever) because having a lose lens on that many units would be really tough luck. Still possible of course.


https://youtu.be/_kPj-jd2_4g?t=21s


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straszy*
> 
> https://youtu.be/_kPj-jd2_4g?t=21s


ah, that's really bad :/

Like I said, my units were fine, but this is also like 2 years ago, so specific testing for this started after the incident for me.


----------



## kicksome

Any word on a release date?


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kicksome*
> 
> Any word on a release date?


no but considering it's in stock I'd say within a month


----------



## m0uz

Hope it replaces the crappy G300s. Why is that abomination still on Logi's site?


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Hope it replaces the crappy G300s. Why is that abomination still on Logi's site?


The only cheap actual ambidextrous mouse logitech has


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> The only cheap actual ambidextrous mouse logitech has


I thought Logi were all about that "screw lefties" life?


----------



## daniel0731ex

According to the datasheets, the 3330 has a typical resolution error ("acceleration") of 3%, compared to the 1% of 3360.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

3330 it's rejection of 3366?


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> 3330 it's rejection of 3366?


just cheaper and mass producable still looking good. inb4 better than 3310


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> From what I remember there where some units with that issue, but from my units none had it. I could however generate a rattling sound with violently shaking it.
> That's why I assumed that 5/5 units having that noise would rather be the wheel (or whatever) because having a lose lens on that many units would be really tough luck. Still possible of course.


Of the 3 g303s i got (1 free, 2 paid for) 2 of them had a rattling issue, and one of those were significantly worse than the other. I actually just recently won a 4th, but i'm leaving it in the box because i'm probably just going to give it away to the first friend that expresses a need for a new mouse.


----------



## Atavax

i wonder if the g102 will be lighter than the gPro.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> According to the datasheets, the 3330 has a typical resolution error ("acceleration") of 3%, compared to the 1% of 3360.


i don't have a 3330 mouse (hint hint), but i'd ignore datasheet specs.


----------



## m0uz

Sneaky bugger


----------



## Demi9OD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i don't have a 3330 mouse (hint hint), but i'd ignore datasheet specs.


Half Life 3330 confirmed.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i don't have a 3330 mouse (hint hint), but i'd ignore datasheet specs.


u wot m8


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> u wot m8


he's saying it's not 3330


----------



## Straszy

It was just prediction i hope they will just give us 3360 but lighter (cheaper) materials, rubber cable and not rgb lights







it's still worth 50£ for start price


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Straszy*
> 
> It was just prediction i hope they will just give us 3360 but lighter (cheaper) materials, rubber cable and not rgb lights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's still worth 50£ for start price


Plastic is cheap as hell already. Also cost of materials has nothing to do with their weight.


----------



## Travieso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Plastic is cheap as hell already. Also cost of materials has nothing to do with their weight.


I think it has. Ducky Secret uses more expensive PBT makes it a bit heavier than other mice.


----------



## daniel0731ex

The weight is related to the quantity [density][Young's Modulus]^-1 of the material.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Travieso*
> 
> I think it has. Ducky Secret uses more expensive PBT makes it a bit heavier than other mice.


That's not because it's heavier, that's because it's different kind of plastic. For example, Nylon 12 is lighter than ABS but more expensive.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> That's not because it's heavier, that's because it's different kind of plastic. For example, Nylon 12 is lighter than ABS but more expensive.


right, like i think the molding is more difficult and more expensive with PBT.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> right, like i think the molding is more difficult and more expensive with PBT.


it is but also in asia it's uncommon for mice to use pbt so the demand is small and manufacturers will charge u out the ass just cause they can. Hence ducky secret is still so expensive for what it is


----------



## Longasc

Let me take the stock image of the G Pro and photoshop you a G202 Prodigy.

Seriously, guys. This is a fake.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> right, like i think the molding is more difficult and more expensive with PBT.


Tbh i don't think so, more like just producing PBT as a material is more expensive.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> Seriously, guys. This is a fake.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAUE0-n1Qys


----------



## v0rtex-SI

So its legit and it doesnt have 3330. SeemsGood


----------



## kicksome

So it's pretty much just a non RGB version of the G Pro?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kicksome*
> 
> So it's pretty much just a non RGB version of the G Pro?


sensor appears to be different, but we don't know the specifics yet. just the 6000 DPI...


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> sensor appears to be different, but we don't know the specifics yet. just the 6000 DPI...


ah that's right I did read that, my bad. I'm sure I'll be happy with it regardless, logitech do some of their finest work on their sensor implementation


----------



## wareya

it's the 3333


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The magic number.


----------



## Demi9OD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> it's the 3333


----------



## Aliandro1d

logitech version of 3330 or what?


----------



## wareya

Yeah that's what I'm guessing it is, also the name 3333 is a joke


----------



## qsxcv

well 3336 does 10800dpi so go figure


----------



## Leopardi

I wonder if its the exact G100s shape, I like the bulkier feel of it more than G Pro \_/ edginess.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Yeah that's what I'm guessing it is, also the name 3333 is a joke


Only buy it when it starts using the 3666 sensor







.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Only buy it when it starts using the 3666 sensor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's also a better deal since it comes with satanist starter kit plus a complimentary set of candles and bottle of virgin blood.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's also a better deal since it comes with satanist starter kit plus a complimentary set of candles and bottle of virgin blood.


Let us all take shots of the virgin blood. Maximillion starts.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's also a better deal since it comes with satanist starter kit plus a complimentary set of candles and bottle of virgin blood.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us all take shots of the virgin blood. Maximillion starts.
Click to expand...

So you're volunteering to spill some, for us here on OCN







?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> So you're volunteering to spill some, for us here on OCN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Correct.
Also what a roast, that hurt Elrick. Thought we were fam.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Correct.
> Also what a roast, that hurt Elrick. Thought we were fam.


When you get old and worn out after visiting lots of deplorable places, picking up loads of STDs over the years - YES I wish I was still like you, young and untainted.

Trust me when I tell you that as much as I love women I still wish I could develop a passion for something else. Unfortunately all keyboard devices, cars, motorcycles and trucks still can not excite me as much as the humble Working Girl.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> When you get old and worn out after visiting lots of deplorable places, picking up loads of STDs over the years - YES I wish I was still like you, young and untainted.
> 
> Trust me when I tell you that as much as I love women I still wish I could develop a passion for something else. Unfortunately all keyboard devices, cars, motorcycles and trucks still can not excite me as much as the humble Working Girl.


Maybe you should be more careful about the blood you drink from girls and this wouldn't be a problem


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Maybe you should be more careful about the blood you drink from girls and this wouldn't be a problem


back when he was young there was no way of testing the blood, you see.


----------



## gene-z

Will this be the same shape as G PRO? I want something more shaped like G100S.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> back when he was young there was no way of testing the blood, you see.


hahah


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Will this be the same shape as G PRO? I want something more shaped like G100S.


unfortunately it looks like G PRO shell re-use, sorry mate.

you should get on that G502+G100s mod


----------



## MaTpr0F

Soo, any news on if this is a real mouse or just a photoshopped pic?


----------



## Bucake

would you really want a budget g pro?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> would you really want a budget g pro?


I still think it's fake lol, the people who posted it have 1 post

And to answer that question - no not really


----------



## MaTpr0F

It would be nice, yes.


----------



## wareya

we don't even know if it's real
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> would you really want a budget g pro?


Yes


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> would you really want a budget g pro?


Yes


----------



## Bucake

i didn't assume it's real, i just wondered if people would really care for it to be

but i guess the answer is we have weird people on these forums


----------



## wareya

actually that was part of an old post I forgot I started writing lol


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> would you really want a budget g pro?


Well 82€ for a mouse is a bit too much don't you think?


----------



## chr1spe

I really wonder what sensor it is if its not a 3330 though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i didn't assume it's real, i just wondered if people would really care for it to be
> 
> but i guess the answer is we have weird people on these forums


Depending on what is in it I don't see how that is weird at all. If its an am010 I'd probably pass, but if it goes up to 6000dpi I doubt it would be that. If it is anything else I might be interested. I don't need >6000dpi, hell I don't even need >1000 really and I don't need more than around 3m/s max so as long as it doesn't have any smoothing and a low LOD it wouldn't even really be a downgrade. It also depends on the price I guess. If I was only saving a bit I might as well get the pro, but if it was significantly cheaper, had no smoothing, and had a low LOD then I'd probably get it instead.

Edit: Well really I mean extremely little to no smoothing.


----------



## Bucake

fair enough. but it doesn't seem "budget enough" to me. it still has side-buttons, for one.
maybe it won't have RGB and will have a cheaper sensor. but would that really bring it down to a "budget price"?

for example the G100s was true budget from the ground up. no side-buttons, no lights, budget sensor, cheap shell, cheap texture - everything about it was cheap.
but if they have taken the G Pro and just removed the RBG lighting and put a cheap sensor in it, well i doubt it would be sold at $30 or something.

but i get your point. personally i am fine with anything from the A2020 and up. i'd rather have a good coating / finish than some super sensor myself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Well 82€ for a mouse is a bit too much don't you think?


well i guess that's not really how i look at it. i'd say it depends on what the mouse is about.
but no, i would not pay 82 euros for the G Pro, for me it certainly isn't worth that much. i would definitely take it for 30, maybe 40.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> [...]


Check out the price for the G302 and compare with the price for the G303 (on for example the Amazon site for your country, as the prices on the Logitech website are ridiculous). That might be an example of how it will compare to the normal Pro.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> well i guess that's not really how i look at it. i'd say it depends on what the mouse is about.
> but no, i would not pay 82 euros for the G Pro, for me it certainly isn't worth that much. i would definitely take it for 30, maybe 40.


Exactly, i'd take it even for 50 even 60 in some cases, but the simplest mouse on the market at 82€ is a frigging joke


----------



## costilletas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Exactly, i'd take it even for 50 even 60 in some cases, but the simplest mouse on the market at 82€ is a frigging joke


Someone called a price gouger?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Exactly, i'd take it even for 50 even 60 in some cases, but the simplest mouse on the market at 82€ is a frigging joke


Its definitely not the simplest mouse on the market. The click mechanism itself makes it more complex than 90% of the mice on the market. Small and not a lot of buttons != simple in any way shape or form. The only mice I'd say are more advanced are probably logitech's wireless mice. Pretty much everything else has simpler construction. If you want extremely simple mice that are much simpler than the g pro and similar price look to zowie and FM.

Edit: Well there are also gimmicky things that are complicated like the rival 700 I guess.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Exactly, i'd take it even for 50 even 60 in some cases, but the simplest mouse on the market at 82€ is a frigging joke


The price is of course ridiculous, but the mouse isn't "the simplest mouse" when you look at its insides. It kind of looks over-engineered to me. It's just a small shape and that small size maybe fools you into thinking it's a more simple mouse than for example a Deathadder while it's really more complicated to manufacture?


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Its definitely not the simplest mouse on the market. The click mechanism itself makes it more complex than 90% of the mice on the market. Small and not a lot of buttons != simple in any way shape or form. The only mice I'd say are more advanced are probably logitech's wireless mice. Pretty much everything else has simpler construction. If you want extremely simple mice that are much simpler than the g pro and similar price look to zowie and FM.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The price is of course ridiculous, but the mouse isn't "the simplest mouse" when you look at its insides. It kind of looks over-engineered to me. It's just a small shape and that small size maybe fools you into thinking it's a more simple mouse than for example a Deathadder while it's really more complicated to manufacture?


I'm not referring to every kind of mouse, i'm talking about gaming mice ofc. Despite having a most complex click mechanism , compared to the others, the rest of the mouse is pretty much as hard to manufacture as most of the gaming mice on the market, and since it has no stupid gimmicks, the cost goes even more down, so doesn't matter how complex clicks are, i still expect an MSRP of maximum 60€. Can you realize how much more of it could've Logitech sold by pricing it at that?

Edit: Also i don't know if the same click mechanism is also used on the G403, because, when i tried it, it didn't feel anything special so, if that was to be right, the click mechanism would be an excuse


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> I'm not referring to every kind of mouse, i'm talking about gaming mice ofc. Despite having a most complex click mechanism , compared to the others, the rest of the mouse is pretty much as hard to manufacture as most of the gaming mice on the market, and since it has no stupid gimmicks, the cost goes even more down, so doesn't matter how complex clicks are, i still expect an MSRP of maximum 60€. Can you realize how much more of it could've Logitech sold by pricing it at that?
> 
> Edit: Also i don't know if the same click mechanism is also used on the G403, because, when i tried it, it didn't feel anything special so, if that was to be right, the click mechanism would be an excuse


The rest of the construction still looks fairly complicated compared to the average mouse. Also complex doesn't necessarily mean good like I said in my edit the Rival 700 is pretty complicated, but also terrible. I haven't actually used either the G Pro or G403, but the G303 has far better clicks than any other mice I've used and has the same system. Anyway you can't say it is simpler than something like zowies which have the buttons as part of the top shell and are just simpler all around even if you for whatever think they are better are around the same price in the US anyway. The EU vs NA pricing is a bit weird though. People were getting them cheaper than a zowie has ever gone on sale for while preordering due to sale codes though while zowies never go on sale.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The rest of the construction still looks fairly complicated compared to the average mouse. Also complex doesn't necessarily mean good like I said in my edit the Rival 700 is pretty complicated, but also terrible. I haven't actually used either the G Pro or G403, but the G303 has far better clicks than any other mice I've used and has the same system. Anyway you can't say it is simpler than something like zowies which have the buttons as part of the top shell and are just simpler all around even if you for whatever think they are better are around the same price in the US anyway. The EU vs NA pricing is a bit weird though. People were getting them cheaper than a zowie has ever gone on sale for while preordering due to sale codes though while zowies never go on sale.


Im currently using a Zowie EC2-A and i can confirm the building quality is not even close to logitech's, but still the price is too high and there's no excuse for it to be that high. Oh and zowie is a joke, i honestly don't think there's anyone who can compete with logitech in terms of mice especially atm, so well they're taking advantage of their being leader of the market and pricing stuff high, since they have no real competition whatsoever. Anyway even the G403 is priced a little too much too, but it's 10 € less and pretty sure it has the same build quality as G pro, except faulty ones which both came well equipped with.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> I'm not referring to every kind of mouse, i'm talking about gaming mice ofc. Despite having a most complex click mechanism , compared to the others, the rest of the mouse is pretty much as hard to manufacture as most of the gaming mice on the market, and since it has no stupid gimmicks, the cost goes even more down, so doesn't matter how complex clicks are, i still expect an MSRP of maximum 60€. Can you realize how much more of it could've Logitech sold by pricing it at that?
> 
> Edit: Also i don't know if the same click mechanism is also used on the G403, because, when i tried it, it didn't feel anything special so, if that was to be right, the click mechanism would be an excuse


When you look at the insides, there's for some reason a hundred screws used in there, and there's a lot of tiny plastic parts. A person has to put all those parts together, insert all those screws and tighten them. It feels like it's all too much work and shouldn't be needed. Like you say, the end result doesn't actually feel much different compared to a normal mouse, so all that stuff that's done on the inside is kind of a waste. That's what I meant with "over-engineered". In any case, all of that stuff you can find on the inside of this mouse is missing completely in a normal mouse so the normal mouse should be able to beat it in price always.

Good news is that the price will probably drop a lot, same as it did for G502 and G302 and G303 and G402 etc. The €60 you ask for will surely happen (outside of the Logitech shop). Small mice are also not popular, I think, so that should give the price some extra pressure. You can get the G303 for €50 or so right now, and the Pro will maybe end up at a similar price in half a year? Then again... the shape of the G303 was crazy so its price might be lower than it could have been because of that mistake.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> When you look at the insides, there's for some reason a hundred screws used in there, and there's a lot of tiny plastic parts. A person has to put all those parts together, insert all those screws and tighten them. It feels like it's all too much work and shouldn't be needed. Like you say, the end result doesn't actually feel much different compared to a normal mouse, so all that stuff that's done on the inside is kind of a waste. That's what I meant with "over-engineered". In any case, all of that stuff you can find on the inside of this mouse is missing completely in a normal mouse so the normal mouse should be able to beat it in price always.
> 
> Good news is that the price will probably drop a lot, same as it did for G502 and G302 and G303 and G402 etc. The €60 you ask for will surely happen (outside of the Logitech shop). Small mice are also not popular, I think, so that should give the price some extra pressure. You can get the G303 for €50 or so right now, and the Pro will maybe end up at a similar price in half a year? Then again... the shape of the G303 was crazy so its price might be lower than it could have been because of that mistake.


Looking forward to it since i want to get rid of the EC2-A (not that it's a bad mouse, but the assembly and overall building quality is very poor, and the wheel is absolute crap) i'll decide between the g pro and the g403, i already bought a g403 for my bro, after sending one back cause of its scroll wheel...let's see what happens with this one


----------



## madn3ss795

It's me who posted the thread on reddit, which then OP xpost-ed to OC.net . The pics were real, there were 3 pics taken from the front and bottom of the box, they were posted on the Facebook page of a gaming gears store manager here in Vietnam, however they were removed and the guy refused to reply anything upon being asked which I believe because he was still under NDA









Another local seller was also taking pre-orders for the mouse, said the sensor would be 3330 and it would arrive by Oct 12th ( today ), however down in the comment chain it was delayed for 7 more days, so Oct 19th if not later. Price is the same as G100s, blue LED only.

In case there's still doubt the mouse was mentioned by Logitech Taiwan, too. There's a raffle running for G102, winners will be revealed on Oct 22 so the official announcement should be around that day.


----------



## wareya

how long till international version


----------



## madn3ss795

No idea, we're getting G102 early since the G Pro won't be distributed here. I guess Logitech don't want another competitor at G403's price range ( already selling ) in our market.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> how long till international version


It might be the G90 route.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Its definitely not the simplest mouse on the market. The click mechanism itself makes it more complex than 90% of the mice on the market. Small and not a lot of buttons != simple in any way shape or form. The only mice I'd say are more advanced are probably logitech's wireless mice. Pretty much everything else has simpler construction. If you want extremely simple mice that are much simpler than the g pro and similar price look to zowie and FM.
> 
> Edit: Well there are also gimmicky things that are complicated like the rival 700 I guess.


The click mechanism is literally a tense piece of metal acting as a spring, it's really not complex


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> The click mechanism is literally a tense piece of metal acting as a spring, it's really not complex


+ doesn't make much of a difference, i've tried both G Pro and G403, good clicks sure, not worth that much more money compared to "normal clicks"


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Edit: Well there are also gimmicky things that are complicated like the rival 700 I guess.


Rival 700 is pretty boring internally.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> The click mechanism is literally a tense piece of metal acting as a spring, it's really not complex


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> + doesn't make much of a difference, i've tried both G Pro and G403, good clicks sure, not worth that much more money compared to "normal clicks"


he means the shell design. it's probably the best I've used, advanced or not, I think it's worth a little extra.
I think it's better than Zowie or whatever which are actually simpler case designs, fewer parts etc. but still cost around the same.


----------



## Aliandro1d

shell design as in seperate m1/m2 from body? if so cheap chinese mice have the exact same design







, and zowie is not comparable imo for 3310 sensors they are horribly over priced. The new genius mice have 3310's and are less than half the price and as good quality wise, I REALLY don't like zowie especially since they discontinued the mico


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> he means the shell design. it's probably the best I've used, advanced or not, I think it's worth a little extra.
> I think it's better than Zowie or whatever which are actually simpler case designs, fewer parts etc. but still cost around the same.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> shell design as in seperate m1/m2 from body? if so cheap chinese mice have the exact same design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and zowie is not comparable imo for 3310 sensors they are horribly over priced. The new genius mice have 3310's and are less than half the price and as good quality wise, I REALLY don't like zowie especially since they discontinued the mico


It is indeed better, but surely it's not worth 20€ more. I got my Zowie EC2-A from a guy who sold them discounted, brand new of course, i paid 45€ for it, shipping included, but buying an EC2-A now is like 60€ maybe 65? And you still get a good mouse, of course logitech's quality is well ahead, but that means i'd have to spend around 20€ more for that, and what i get is, better sensor, yes but 3310 is anyway very good already, clicks? yes slightly better, but nothing worth 20€. The point is always the price, G Pro has a ridiculously bad price/quality ratio, even compared to zowie with their horrid build quality and everything, which still have better cable, better mouse glides, and usually they're more compact than logitech, far less sensor or anything rattle for example. So, i really don't know about you guys, but logitech mice are really worth only if the price goes down a bit especially in europe.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> It is indeed better, but surely it's not worth 20€ more. I got my Zowie EC2-A from a guy who sold them discounted, brand new of course, i paid 45€ for it, shipping included, but buying an EC2-A now is like 60€ maybe 65? And you still get a good mouse, of course logitech's quality is well ahead, but that means i'd have to spend around 20€ more for that, and what i get is, better sensor, yes but 3310 is anyway very good already, clicks? yes slightly better, but nothing worth 20€. The point is always the price, G Pro has a ridiculously bad price/quality ratio, even compared to zowie with their horrid build quality and everything, which still have better cable, better mouse glides, and usually they're more compact than logitech, far less sensor or anything rattle for example. So, i really don't know about you guys, but logitech mice are really worth only if the price goes down a bit especially in europe.


I can't really agree with any of these points. Zowie's are far worse price/quality ratio in my experience. always had issues with the scroll wheels, and button/shell design is terrible and cheaply made.

not sure if you're contradicting yourself here- you're saying logitech's quality is far ahead, but that zowie's build/price performance is better. I'm thinking it's worth paying a little more for a product you'll use for a long time than a rather poor product that you might regret getting.
not saying everyone will, but I regret getting Zowies









I don't have any issues with my G Pro in terms of build. it's as perfect as I've ever had a mouse.
Cable is bad, but good 'build quality', just not my preference / optimal for gaming... but it's fine de-braided








Feet are sorta meh, but I've never used stock feet on a mouse, and I don't count that into the price / quality thing as it is... 4-5 dollars to get 2 brand new Great quality sets incl. shipping?









I do agree it is overpriced, but I also know Logitech prices do drop quite substantially, so once it hits the Zowie price range, it should be a really solid price/quality option.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I can't really agree with any of these points. Zowie's are far worse price/quality ratio in my experience. always had issues with the scroll wheels, and button/shell design is terrible and cheaply made.
> 
> not sure if you're contradicting yourself here- you're saying logitech's quality is far ahead, but that zowie's build/price performance is better. I'm thinking it's worth paying a little more for a product you'll use for a long time than a rather poor product that you might regret getting.
> not saying everyone will, but I regret getting Zowies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have any issues with my G Pro in terms of build. it's as perfect as I've ever had a mouse.
> Cable is bad, but good 'build quality', just not my preference / optimal for gaming... but it's fine de-braided
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feet are sorta meh, but I've never used stock feet on a mouse, and I don't count that into the price / quality thing as it is... 4-5 dollars to get 2 brand new Great quality sets incl. shipping?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do agree it is overpriced, but I also know Logitech prices do drop quite substantially, so once it hits the Zowie price range, it should be a really solid price/quality option.


Well i don't know about you but i had 2 zowie mice in my entire life, the scroll wheel was the worst thing they had, the button/shell design was no worse than the logitech gaming mice i owned in the past (g5, g500/g500s)

I'm not contradicting myself, i'm saying logitech build quality is ahead (but prices are much higher), and zowie price/quality ratio is better (despite being lower in quality, the price is also lower, much lower, around 20€ for me here). 20€ isn't surely paying a "little" more, and i still haven't regretted my EC2-A (despite i bought and tried both G Pro and G403, i still feel that neither 82 nor 72€ respectively, are worth to replace an EC2-A i paid 45€).

I've tried the G Pro, it is a very good mouse, build is very excellent, but i didn't like the shape, as i was always used to "tall" and ergonomic mice such as EC2s, G5, 500/s, Kone+, etc, the G403 was far better for me, having the same build quality that comes with the G Pro pretty much, despite defects related to the far different design mainly.
G Pro's cable was pretty good, not zowie's level, but still very close to it, feet were pretty bad at least for the first 2/3 days, they got better tho, honestly i do count that into the price/quality thing mainly because i'm not willing (not many are) to change feet as i take a new mouse out of the box, and still, i paid for it, whether it's 5€ or 1 or 10, i should be able to use a mouse as it is the moment i take it out of the box, not customizing it as i like, what would be the point in choosing a particular mouse then? Just pick a random one and cut and mod it, since you can do it, seriously, it's not the smartest thing to do.

Well as i already said previously in the thread, i'd be well happy to pay something like 50 max 60 € for a G403, i'd swap my EC2-A instantly, if i had the assurance it'd come with no lens or wheel rattle, and with decent feet.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Well i don't know about you but i had 2 zowie mice in my entire life, the scroll wheel was the worst thing they had, the button/shell design was no worse than the logitech gaming mice i owned in the past (g5, g500/g500s)
> 
> I'm not contradicting myself, i'm saying logitech build quality is ahead (but prices are much higher), and zowie price/quality ratio is better (despite being lower in quality, the price is also lower, much lower, around 20€ for me here). 20€ isn't surely paying a "little" more, and i still haven't regretted my EC2-A (despite i bought and tried both G Pro and G403, i still feel that neither 82 nor 72€ respectively, are worth to replace an EC2-A i paid 45€).
> 
> I've tried the G Pro, it is a very good mouse, build is very excellent, but i didn't like the shape, as i was always used to "tall" and ergonomic mice such as EC2s, G5, 500/s, Kone+, etc, the G403 was far better for me, having the same build quality that comes with the G Pro pretty much, despite defects related to the far different design mainly.
> G Pro's cable was pretty good, not zowie's level, but still very close to it, feet were pretty bad at least for the first 2/3 days, they got better tho, honestly i do count that into the price/quality thing mainly because i'm not willing (not many are) to change feet as i take a new mouse out of the box, and still, i paid for it, whether it's 5€ or 1 or 10, i should be able to use a mouse as it is the moment i take it out of the box, not customizing it as i like, what would be the point in choosing a particular mouse then? Just pick a random one and cut and mod it, since you can do it, seriously, it's not the smartest thing to do.
> 
> Well as i already said previously in the thread, i'd be well happy to pay something like 50 max 60 € for a G403, i'd swap my EC2-A instantly, if i had the assurance it'd come with no lens or wheel rattle, and with decent feet.


I've had AM, FK, FK1, EC2-A, EC1 eVo, MiCo, original EC1... all were rather disappointing shell-wise. the tension from the shell you could feel in the entire upper shell after it was used for a while. it was terrible








I'd say the price/performance quality is horrible due to their issues.
but you'll have to consider MSRP of the mice to compare prices at this stage I'd say. you can get G303 (ones without lens rattle) for like $25 on good Amazon sales, and the price/quality is impossible to beat there, even if you don't like the shape.

I do agree that the lens rattling was a bad thing, though.

but I think your argument about "pick a random one and cut it and mod it" is stupid...







I don't think you really think that.
changing feet is a 2min procedure that costs nothing. cutting and modding a mouse is a risky procedure that takes a lot of time and skill.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I've had AM, FK, FK1, EC2-A, EC1 eVo, MiCo, original EC1... all were rather disappointing shell-wise.


Does the EC1/EC2 (original) feel notably different to the newer mice? I'm still curious about that mouse, it's an odd specimen and I can't find any information about it online really, seems like it was really niche, I can only find like 1-2 reviews on YouTube and they're very uninformative, and the reviews that I can find elsewhere (especially on this site) usually have dead image links.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Does the EC1/EC2 (original) feel notably different to the newer mice? I'm still curious about that mouse, it's an odd specimen and I can't find any information about it online really, seems like it was really niche, I can only find like 1-2 reviews on YouTube and they're very uninformative, and the reviews that I can find elsewhere (especially on this site) usually have dead image links.


I don't recall what the differences were, but the wheel broke in 3 weeks of use for me, so I didn't have it for all that long. I just remember it was really disappointing. prediction and whatnot to the nth degree.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I can't find any information about it online really, seems like it was really niche


Well, no one cared about some generic 3060 mice. They went full tilt with the marketing on the AM and 3090 hype though and~ here we are.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I don't recall what the differences were, but the wheel broke in 3 weeks of use for me, so I didn't have it for all that long. I just remember it was really disappointing. prediction and whatnot to the nth degree.


Looks like I'm gonna have to buy the only one I can find one of these days to decide then, because like nobody has any information on this mouse, I can't find much about it on google, YT has no reviews, all the reviews I can find elsewhere have dead links and dead images so I can't even understand what's going on in the review half the time. I hear it drops reports on 1kHz but who knows.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well, no one cared about some generic 3060 mice. They went full tilt with the marketing on the AM and 3090 hype though and~ here we are.


Too bad the AM was garbage (IMO)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Looks like I'm gonna have to buy the only one I can find one of these days to decide then, because like nobody has any information on this mouse, I can't find much about it on google, YT has no reviews, all the reviews I can find elsewhere have dead links and dead images so I can't even understand what's going on in the review half the time. I hear it drops reports on 1kHz but who knows.


If you google some more you can see their hilarious spiel's on stuff like the 3060


Spoiler: lol only the best is good enough for us and our customers



Quote:


> With the choice to develop a mouse with either optical or laser technology, surely ZOWIE and HeatoN has developed a high end laser mouse, using the newest technology available?
> 
> Wrong. If you expected us to develop a laser mouse using the newest technology with driver installation and complicated software, we are sorry to disappoint you. Only the best is good enough for us and our customers, unfortunately laser haven't been able to pass our extensive testing.
> 
> Why is this? Well, the laser technology surely is new and innovative. It only has one problem, but for a gaming grade product, the problem is quite serious. Most gamers prefer cloth mouse pads today, when using a mouse on a cloth surface, the movements will destroy the structure of the fibers bit by bit and static electricity caused by the friction between mouse feet and cloth will cause particles to stick to the lens very easily. This happens for both optical and laser lens, but the laser lens is more sensitive, resulting in a very unstable tracking when particles are gathered at the lens. The optical lens is not as annoyed by the absorption of particles and will continue to function flawlessly, as it pretty much ignores the particles.
> 
> Comparing the disadvantages of laser and optical, it is quite clear that the optical technology is still the best solution for gaming at any level. We will continue to research on a solution to fix the current problem with laser, but until now, we have not been able to accept the issues caused by laser, as we don't feel any gamer should have to struggle with their mouse skipping in the middle of a game.


Quote:


> With the choice to develop a mouse with either optical or laser technology, surely ZOWIE and HeatoN has developed a high end laser mouse, using the newest technology available?
> 
> Wrong. If you expected us to develop a laser mouse using the newest technology with driver installation and complicated software, we are sorry to disappoint you. Only the best is good enough for us and our customers, unfortunately laser haven't been able to pass our extensive testing.
> 
> Why is this? Well, the laser technology surely is new and innovative. It only has one problem, but for a gaming grade product, the problem is quite serious. Most gamers prefer cloth mouse pads today, when using a mouse on a cloth surface, the movements will destroy the structure of the fibers bit by bit and static electricity caused by the friction between mouse feet and cloth will cause particles to stick to the lens very easily. This happens for both optical and laser lens, but the laser lens is more sensitive, resulting in a very unstable tracking when particles are gathered at the lens. The optical lens is not as annoyed by the absorption of particles and will continue to function flawlessly, as it pretty much ignores the particles.
> 
> Comparing the disadvantages of laser and optical, it is quite clear that the optical technology is still the best solution for gaming at any level. We will continue to research on a solution to fix the current problem with laser, but until now, we have not been able to accept the issues caused by laser, as we don't feel any gamer should have to struggle with their mouse skipping in the middle of a game.
> 
> The question regarding mouse correction or prediction is very interesting, as there is no easy explanation. To give you the honest truth, itâ€™s not about whether or not a mouse has prediction. Itâ€™s about the level of prediction it has, as all mice have some extent of prediction.
> 
> Most gamers today consider the mouse correction / prediction as a deed of pure evil which forces your mouse to make straight lines, even if you donâ€™t want to. Our mice does not force you to do anything, so in terms of the general understanding of the gaming community, our mice does not have any mouse correction. Your movement is your own.
> 
> However, to continue the story, if there was no prediction at all in a mouse, you would only get lines that look like this:
> 
> Please note that this is even if you drag your mouse completely straight.
> 
> Why is this? Well, take a look at the surface of your mousepad. It doesnâ€™t matter if itâ€™s plastic, cloth or something else, but what you are looking at will most likely be textured. When running your fingers across your mousepad, you can feel that it is uneven.
> 
> To get a stable experience when using a mouse, the sensor should only track on the even points of the surface, but as this is somewhat impossible, the sensor uses prediction to even out the gap in-between fibers and particles, so your experience is stable. We believe that this is the only thing prediction should be used for, and have therefore limited the prediction to be as low as possible. The term â€œprediction or notâ€ was born with some manufacturers overdoing the prediction.
> 
> To give you a better understanding, I have created these images for you:
> With a 125 Hz mouse, the tracking will look as in this image, with the red arrows being prediction:
> 
> As you can see from this image, the gap the sensor needs to predict to go from point A to B is very high.
> There are sensors which naturally consider the prediction to be as low as possible, but most of them have other problems. There are other ways to achieve a minimum prediction. We use the Avago 3060 sensor because it is the most stable sensor available. The Avago 3060 is an older sensor, yet it still delivers the best overall performance during extensive use, making it the optimal sensor for a competitive gaming mouse. The Avago 3060 would normally be considered to have prediction, but our 1000 Hz evens out the prediction and makes the gap it needs to predict much smaller.
> 
> Look at this picture:
> 
> As you can see in this picture, the EC-mice updates 6 times faster than a normal 125 Hz mouse.
> 
> So the final answer to the question is:
> Yes, the EC-mice do have prediction, but only the minimum level required in order to have a functional mouse. In terms of how gamers currently interprets the term â€œpredictionâ€, then the EC-series would not be considered to have prediction.
> 
> I hope our honesty will be appreciated in the community. Trying out the mice will truly show that we have taken all of these things into consideration, and that our mice allows for free movement.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Danny Ramkvist
> Chief Marketing Officer


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> If you google some more you can see their hilarious spiel's on stuff like the 3060


What are they even going on about half the time? Like...what? They talk about prediction being an evil and then go on to say their mouse allows you to "move as you please" but then go on to say it has prediction, they also talk about the mousepad being ripped up by the mouse feet which leads to "irritation" of the laser sensor because of stuff on the lens, but don't talk about the SRAV?

Dear god, this entire marketing garbage is making me cringe more than most review videos on YouTube.


----------



## wareya

I mean they knows at least part of the truth but that spiel literally just filled in the missing technical details with pseudoscientific garbage.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Does the EC1/EC2 (original) feel notably different to the newer mice?


Well, obv. given angle snapping, depends on sensitivity how big the impact is though, also reacts faster than the -A´s, but thats obv. as well. I noticed that mine is dead since a a month ago when i wanted to swap the cable, must be past expiration date i guess.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well, no one cared about some generic 3060 mice. They went full tilt with the marketing on the AM and 3090 hype though and~ here we are.


There wasnt much available at the time of EC-1, either DA 3G/3.5G, the jittery Abyssus, the MLT04´s, or a rather picky 6090 mouse, CM Spawn was a joke in the beginning that was only useable at 1800cpi and 125hz, the Puretrak "whatwasitsname" isnt even worth mentioning, and actually i praised Zowie quite a bit back in 2010, even though it was simply for being a valid DA and 3.0 alternative, fast forward to the EC eVo and its already getting suspicious with the refusal of using the 4x SROM for the sake of "stability", and we all know how Zowie is these days, and thankfully they will never be able to get a worthwhile foothold in the mainstream with those products.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Well, obv. given angle snapping, depends on sensitivity how big the impact is though, also reacts faster than the -A´s, but thats obv. as well. I noticed that mine is dead since a a month ago when i wanted to swap the cable, must be past expiration date i guess.


Well besides angle snapping which is pretty obvious since I was commenting on it last page, but you answered that by saying it has a faster "reaction time" per say (but that's kind of a given anyway) than the A series of ECs, maybe I'll have to look into it now for real. I play 50cm/360 so I probably won't notice the prediction as much as a higher sensitivity user. I'm curious now.

Also, I hear that canned goods last longer, maybe you should've thrown it in a can and it wouldn't have expired so soon








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> the Puretrak "whatwasitsname" isnt even worth mentioning


Puretrak Valor with that whopping 1.5m/s PCS/max tracking rate (iirc it was one of the two)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Oh for reference too here's how the EC1 looked in paint


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Oh for reference too here's how the EC1 looked in paint


Good lord those circles aren't even circles, they're rounded squares.

EDIT: Did some research, apparently the A3060 has a whopping 2.2m/s malfunction speed, however I've also seen images of it reaching 5m/s. I'm confused now.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Good lord those circles aren't even circles, they're rounded squares.
> 
> EDIT: Did some research, apparently the A3060 has a whopping 2.2m/s malfunction speed, however I've also seen images of it reaching 5m/s. I'm confused now.


Depends on FW, 2.2m/s sounds like the old A4Tech´s.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

http://gaming.logitech.com/zh-cn/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse

That white version. God dammit I'd rather have that then the Plasma Cutter's boring ass black color.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/zh-cn/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse
> 
> That white version. God dammit I'd rather have that then the Plasma Cutter's boring ass black color.


damnn that white version looks beautiful


----------



## deepor

As it's not on their website here, are they perhaps planning to only sell the G Pro in the West?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> As it's not on their website here, are they perhaps planning to only sell the G Pro in the West?


Yup. You'll have to rely on overseas sellers. It shouldn't be too hard given the wide distribution network.

I almost want to get a white one so I can mix and match the shell components on the black Plasma Cutter I own. The end result would like quite spiffy imo.


----------



## m0uz

Something I've noticed about the images of the G403, G Pro and G102 is that all 3 have an image that indicates that it has an optical encoder for the wheel with an arm that latches into the notches, like the G502. Just a useless thing I noticed.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/zh-cn/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse
> 
> That white version. God dammit I'd rather have that then the Plasma Cutter's boring ass black color.


Oh man that white version looks so good!!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/zh-cn/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse
> 
> That white version. God dammit I'd rather have that then the Plasma Cutter's boring ass black color.


I guess Logitech won't sell the US market a Plasma Cutter in white because of the current politics.


----------



## Zhuni

Dat white version


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> Dat white version


White mice matter too. I was only able to buy a black mouse (it's taking forever to arrive).


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I'd honestly prefer that color over black. Yellow I don't particularly like. Red and Blue can work well.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I'd honestly prefer that color over black. Yellow I don't particularly like. Red and Blue can work well.


Not having a white variant is another reason for me to return the Pro.

I am guessing the white G102 is glossy.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Not having a white variant is another reason for me to return the Pro.
> 
> I am guessing the white G102 is glossy.




I'll be doing that with mine.


----------



## chr1spe

I wonder how much they will cost shipped to the US.


----------



## ND9512

So basically a g pro with cheaper sensor and rubber cable







, still no info about the price ?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ND9512*
> 
> So basically a g pro with cheaper sensor and rubber cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , still no info about the price ?


In the other thread I think someone said it would be the equivalent of 30-35$ in asia. Idk how much these things normally cost sent from asia to the US compared to their actual price though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> In the other thread I think someone said it would be the equivalent of 30-35$ in asia. Idk how much these things normally cost sent from asia to the US compared to their actual price though.


Speaking of that I was in the process of importing a mouse already when this released. I'm hoping the shipping can be $20 somehow(estimate shown for one carrier) which would make it $60 with shipping. Quite decent imo.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> img


how's the keyboard? is that one with their optical switches?
phew, dat mouse. buttons and wheel seem in top condition


----------



## Ino.

So now that it's announced I can at least confirm that the white version is really nice









Although it is not glossy @popups, it's the same coating as the G Pro but in white. As for the sensor: I don't know what it is, all I know is that it is something I've never seen before because the lens is completely different from all the other ones I've seen. And I'm not allowed to open up the beta model that I have. But I can tell you that it feels really good and that it easily tracks up to 5 m/s.

Also the rubber cable is good. I don't know why they didn't put that one on the G Pro (or all their other mice to begin with), but I like it. It's think and flexible.

I can also see this rubbing people the wrong way depending on pricing, because for me I don't see a downside to it compared to the G Pro.

EDIT: I will stream with it today if you want to get a peek.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> how's the keyboard? is that one with their optical switches?
> phew, dat mouse. buttons and wheel seem in top condition


It's in top condition because that's a combination of parts picked out of all the Diamondbacks(be it og,plasma,3G otherwise) i own.

I still like the keyboard. However, something like a Leopold would murder it when it comes to typing feel. Keep in mind that the Q700 was $70 before shipping. That should give you an idea of what kind of tier that product is in.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> So now that it's announced I-.


Just post internal pictures if you can please, thanks.


----------



## Alya

Does it have the native 50 CPI steps that the 3366 mice have?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Just post internal pictures if you can please, thanks.


Not allowed to do that with my beta build







Otherwise I'd know already what the sensor was.
I don't know when/if I get a retail version, but first thing I'll do is open it.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Does it have the native 50 CPI steps that the 3366 mice have?


I don't know because mine doesn't get recognized by LGS so I can't set it. Default steps are 400, 800, 1600, 3200.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Well good news is that Chinese reviewers always open things up and look inside. So I'll just wait for those, ignore reviews like always and instead wait for the general public to weigh in on it.


----------



## patoux01

Maybe because he's not allowed to open up a prototype ? Sounds only fair that he's not allowed to open up and post R&D stuff online...


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patoux01*
> 
> Maybe because he's not allowed to open up a prototype ? Sounds only fair that he's not allowed to open up and post R&D stuff online...


You seem confused. I perfectly understand the reason why he is not posting them.

It's always a waiting game for these things.


----------



## patoux01

It read to me as "You're a lousy reviewer for not opening it, the Chinese do it!". Sorry


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> So now that it's announced I can at least confirm that the white version is really nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although it is not glossy @popups, it's the same coating as the G Pro but in white. As for the sensor: I don't know what it is, all I know is that it is something I've never seen before because the lens is completely different from all the other ones I've seen. And I'm not allowed to open up the beta model that I have. But I can tell you that it feels really good and that it easily tracks up to 5 m/s.
> 
> Also the rubber cable is good. I don't know why they didn't put that one on the G Pro (or all their other mice to begin with), but I like it. It's think and flexible.
> 
> I can also see this rubbing people the wrong way depending on pricing, because for me I don't see a downside to it compared to the G Pro.
> 
> EDIT: I will stream with it today if you want to get a peek.


What is the LOD like? Also do you have any information on if it is Asia only or not?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

lel with a coupon code it's like 159 yuan over there. jesus. i feel bad buying the plasma cutter now.


----------



## Zhuni

Having owned a white matte mouse before I can say they get discoloured really fast with a patina of yellow.

I'm not a dirty bastard either

I am going of white DB though which was matte rubber finish


----------



## BobBobFSGG

Isn't the G Pro made from the uncoated ABS? If the white G102 have no coating either, it's indeed gonna discolor/yellow in no time just from the UV/light, sweat and wear (depending on the individual skin chemistry though, but still).

I wonder when Logi is gonna release the white (AWP style) and grey (Battlefield 1) G Pros... You can also see the AWP G Pro and white G102 aren't exactly the same - black wheel, DPI and side buttons on the G Pro, while G102 has white side buttons with black wheel and DPI button + an area around 'em is black as is the cable.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> In the other thread I think someone said it would be the equivalent of 30-35$ in asia. Idk how much these things normally cost sent from asia to the US compared to their actual price though.




So our local Logitech site put up this mouse. 890 NTD ( ~= 28 USD). But the mouse is nowhere to be found(not listed in all web shop nor physical store).

Also, 10M Omron switches, this is the first time (since G100s, excluding G90 and G300) logitech uses switch with less than 20M clicks


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What is the LOD like? Also do you have any information on if it is Asia only or not?


LOD is really low, less than one CD again.

If it's really around 30€ then it's an absolute steal. Also for discoloration: mine is like 2 months old and shows no sign of wear or color change so far, but I feel like it is off-white to begin with. Like there is a subtle bit of grey in it? Maybe that just caused by lighting here and the texture of the surface.


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> 
> 
> So our local Logitech site put up this mouse. 890 NTD ( ~= 28 USD). But the mouse is nowhere to be found(not listed in all web shop nor physical store).
> 
> Also, 10M Omron switches, this is the first time (since G100s, excluding G90 and G300) logitech uses switch with less than 20M clicks


It is listed in some web shop in my country with the same price as G100s


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ND9512*
> 
> It is listed in some web shop in my country with the same price as G100s


400/800/1600/3200 steps, same price as G100s, 200-6000 CPI, maybe some variant of the 3320 with a raised CPI and different scaler like the G402?


----------



## m0uz

Maybe, now that it's released, Chrissy boy could chime in on what this thing's packin'?


----------



## Bucake

he might not be the manager for it. i see him pop up here only when logitech G is in the marketing-push phase of an announced product, but since this is an asia-exclusive product (right?) he might not be involved all that much, or otherwise we're probably already past that phase.

this isn't exactly an "asian site" anyway, so this wouldn't really be the place to market/support a product that you can only get in asia.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> this isn't exactly an "asian site" anyway, so this wouldn't really be the place to market/support a product that you can only get in asia.


azn version of cpate pls


----------



## Bucake

would've been nice, but like you said (somewhere), the wise asians will open it up and post their findings for us.
i suppose cpate would give us some info here if there was an official way to get it, but it looks like we'd have to do the import thing to get it.

which countries sell it, btw? i see china and SK sell it.
japan doesn't seem to sell either the G Pro or the G102. too bad, i have super secret underground japan contacts for proxying

edit: +taiwan. only china seems to sell it in white though?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> would've been nice, but like you said (somewhere), the wise asians will open it up and post their findings for us.
> i suppose cpate would give us some info here if there was an official way to get it, but it looks like we'd have to do the import thing to get it.
> 
> which countries sell it, btw? i see china and SK sell it.
> japan doesn't seem to sell either the G Pro or the G102. too bad, i have super secret underground japan contacts for proxying
> 
> edit: +taiwan. only china seems to sell it in white though?


Yeah, only China gets white version, they have way larger market than Taiwan, AFAIK the G102 goes 'G90' route.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Is this going to be released in europe?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> 400/800/1600/3200 steps, same price as G100s, 200-6000 CPI, maybe some variant of the 3320 with a raised CPI and different scaler like the G402?


It doesn't make sense to do that IMO and it also apparently has much lower LOD. I think 3325 or 3330 is much more likely. IDK what the standard lenses are like for those though and if that would explain the weird lens.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BobBobFSGG*
> 
> Isn't the G Pro made from the uncoated ABS? If the white G102 have no coating either, it's indeed gonna discolor/yellow in no time just from the UV/light, sweat and wear (depending on the individual skin chemistry though, but still).
> 
> I wonder when Logi is gonna release the white (AWP style) and grey (Battlefield 1) G Pros... You can also see the AWP G Pro and white G102 aren't exactly the same - black wheel, DPI and side buttons on the G Pro, while G102 has white side buttons with black wheel and DPI button + an area around 'em is black as is the cable.


Pro has a matte clear coat on G logo area (knuckle rest) and main keys. G102 does not.
"AWP" Pro is a photoshop and I have no idea who made it.
BF1 Pro is live on our site along with the other BF1 gear.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> ...Chrissy boy...


Really?

Anyway, it's not based on any existing sensor because we worked with a totally different company to develop it. LOD is around 1.6mm avg (accounting for part to part variance) on a surface like G240. Also standard sensor stuff for us like zero smoothing, zero pixel rounding, >5m/s tracking speed, >25g acceleration, high accuracy, etc etc etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Yeah, only China gets white version, they have way larger market than Taiwan, AFAIK the G102 goes 'G90' route.


White is China-only.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> he might not be the manager for it. i see him pop up here only when logitech G is in the marketing-push phase of an announced product, but since this is an asia-exclusive product (right?) he might not be involved all that much, or otherwise we're probably already past that phase.
> 
> this isn't exactly an "asian site" anyway, so this wouldn't really be the place to market/support a product that you can only get in asia.


I was the product manager for G102. In fact, it effectively will be the last product I run from start to finish, as I have a new product manager for mice. I'm now looking over the entire portfolio, and work with all the product managers to make our gear better.

I normally only show up at product launches to answer questions before people have actual product and are able to form opinions based on their real experiences rather than speculation. Before we announce I can't talk about anything, and after people have it I feel like I'm just pushing an agenda rather than helping the conversation. Plus you guys start to ask me a bunch of questions I'm prohibited from answering and those conversations just irritate all of us.


----------



## Klopfer

oO , so new Sensor ... not just tweaked ? ...
which manufactor







?
Analog Devices Inc ?
damn ...
I'm now using G403 and G Pro in a 2 week battle ( 2weeks this and 2 weeks the other







) ...


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Pro has a matte clear coat on G logo area (knuckle rest) and main keys. G102 does not.
> "AWP" Pro is a photoshop and I have no idea who made it.
> BF1 Pro is live on our site along with the other BF1 gear.
> Really?
> 
> Anyway, it's not based on any existing sensor because we worked with a totally different company to develop it. LOD is around 1.6mm avg (accounting for part to part variance) on a surface like G240. Also standard sensor stuff for us like zero smoothing, zero pixel rounding, >5m/s tracking speed, >25g acceleration, high accuracy, etc etc etc.
> White is China-only.
> I was the product manager for G102. In fact, it effectively will be the last product I run from start to finish, as I have a new product manager for mice. I'm now looking over the entire portfolio, and work with all the product managers to make our gear better.
> 
> I normally only show up at product launches to answer questions before people have actual product and are able to form opinions based on their real experiences rather than speculation. Before we announce I can't talk about anything, and after people have it I feel like I'm just pushing an agenda rather than helping the conversation. Plus you guys start to ask me a bunch of questions I'm prohibited from answering and those conversations just irritate all of us.


So will the G102 be Asia only in general or will it be available in NA and EU?


----------



## Klopfer

if I understood it correct , the "white" Version is China only


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> ...
> standard sensor stuff for us like zero smoothing
> ...


So if that is the case why did the Logitech G303 firmware V26 have 2 frames of smoothing on all steps while the firmware V24 had no frames of smoothing at all? Does this g102 sensor also have 2 frames of smoothing like 3366/0? Could you ask your team why the 2 frames if it is negligible?


----------



## CPate

The new sensor does not work like the old sensor in that regard.

There's a lot of proprietary stuff in the answer about 3366 that I'm not permitted to share. I've been told that what is going on in the newer SROMs is not smoothing.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> The new sensor does not work like the old sensor in that regard.
> 
> There's a lot of proprietary stuff in the answer about 3366 that I'm not permitted to share. I've been told that what is going on in the newer SROMs is not smoothing.


Maybe it's a good idea to no longer market no "smoothing" or no "filtering" in Logitech's 3366 adverts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBcSKFPSwbw&t=1m14s

qsxcv was questioning the marketing. I have doubts he would continue to now that he has ties.

Why did Logitech use the voice of a guy who doesn't have an American accent for their US advert?


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> The new sensor does not work like the old sensor in that regard.
> 
> There's a lot of proprietary stuff in the answer about 3366 that I'm not permitted to share. I've been told that what is going on in the newer SROMs is not smoothing.


But what is it ? it's not smoothing , but u can see something ... like smoothing ...
Edit:
but Im more interested in the new Sensor







who build it ? how much did logitech to build it ( maybe in percent ) ?
why want a new Sensor? especially from a new/other manufactor ?
build as 3366 successor or more AM010 ? if I look at the Price, its more AM010 successor ...
thats not bad , I liked the AM010 ...


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why did Logitech use the voice of a guy who doesn't have an American accent for their US advert?


Because American accents make y'all sound dumb...

Yes, I went there...

Fight me ya mingin' pleb!

I hope people know I'm joking


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I hope people know I'm joking


I'm outraged at your joke!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> we worked with a totally different company to develop it.


That actually sounds interesting.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> qsxcv was questioning the marketing. I have doubts he would continue to now that he has ties.


uwotm8?

my data show 2 frames of smoothing/averaging for 3366, latest srom. and i also see 4 frames for am010 using g100s's register config.

so my opinion has always been the same: it makes no sense to call 2 frames "zero smoothing" and 4 frames "<1ms smoothing"

cpate says that he's told there's no smoothing. so at some point, someone got told the wrong thing by someone else.

the following is just speculation: it could be something stupid like pixart initially made a smoothing-free srom, then enabled the 2 frames in an update without telling logitech, etc...


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uwotm8?
> 
> my data show 2 frames of smoothing/averaging for 3366, latest srom. and i also see 4 frames for am010 using g100s's register config.
> 
> so my opinion has always been the same: it makes no sense to call 2 frames "zero smoothing" and 4 frames "<1ms smoothing"
> 
> cpate says that he's told there's no smoothing. so at some point, someone got told the wrong thing by someone else.
> 
> the following is just speculation: it could be something stupid like pixart initially made a smoothing-free srom, then enabled the 2 frames in an update without telling logitech, etc...


Perhaps we can think of it not as 2-frame smoothing, but instead no smoothing with half the sample rate?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uwotm8?
> 
> my data show 2 frames of smoothing/averaging for 3366, latest srom. and i also see 4 frames for am010 using g100s's register config.
> 
> so my opinion has always been the same: it makes no sense to call 2 frames "zero smoothing" and 4 frames "<1ms smoothing"
> 
> cpate says that he's told there's no smoothing. so at some point, someone got told the wrong thing by someone else.
> 
> the following is just speculation: it could be something stupid like pixart initially made a smoothing-free srom, then enabled the 2 frames in an update without telling logitech, etc...


What I was implying is that you found "smoothing" and were essentially calling out Logitech on this "no smoothing" claims, thus Logitech should reconsider continuing with certain marketing. Also, I was under the impression that Logitech wouldn't want you to continue to study their mice and disclose their details to the public after you got early access to their products.


----------



## qsxcv

i've always thought that it's not worth making a big fuss about.
it's weird, but making a big deal out of it would just spread paranoia.

afaik i am free to do as i like to the retail version of the product. as for why i haven't posted detailed pics and stuff for g pro and g403 (or have i? don't remember), i was honestly just insanely busy with school/research stuff last month, and i didn't think their internals are interesting since i assume most of it is similar to g303 and other previous stuff.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Perhaps we can think of it not as 2-frame smoothing, but instead no smoothing with half the sample rate?


that would be going from ...,a,b,c,d,e,f,... to ...,a+b,c+d,e+f,...

what's happening is that
...,a,b,c,d,e,f,... becomes ...,(a+b)/2,(b+c)/2,(c+d)/2,(d+e)/2,(e+f)/2,...


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Anyway, it's not based on any existing sensor because we worked with a totally different company to develop it.


interesting..
STMicroelectronics rises to create the next gen of super sensors!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I was the product manager for G102. In fact, it effectively will be the last product I run from start to finish, as I have a new product manager for mice. I'm now looking over the entire portfolio, and work with all the product managers to make our gear better.
> 
> I normally only show up at product launches to answer questions before people have actual product and are able to form opinions based on their real experiences rather than speculation. Before we announce I can't talk about anything, and after people have it I feel like I'm just pushing an agenda rather than helping the conversation. Plus you guys start to ask me a bunch of questions I'm prohibited from answering and those conversations just irritate all of us.


grats on that!
you've been good to us mouse nerds


----------



## wareya

so if it's not pixart what is it


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> so if it's not pixart what is it


I thought translating the page would have some answers "G102 is equipped with the United States in the design, manufacture Swiss new sensor." ... It did not.


----------



## RealSteelH6

Maybe Phillips?


----------



## wareya

found some pictures https://www.wstx.com/p-21648-6

looks absolutely nothing like pixart/avago led illuminated sensors...


----------



## qsxcv

:O


----------



## qsxcv

blah... so much silkscreen near the smd stuff that's adjacent to the sensor and the mcu

probably will be hard to figure out


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Well good news is that Chinese reviewers always open things up and look inside.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> found some pictures https://www.wstx.com/p-21648-6


awww yeahhh

also. what the christ.


----------



## 7onoff

We need a chinese who will sell these white's on aliexpress


----------



## Ino.

Oh I didn't even know that it was a completely new manufacturer for the sensor, but I guess it makes sense to do that from a business standpoint, just like automotive OEMs build up various suppliers for their parts to never be fully dependent on one with a de facto monopoly.


----------



## Alya

Dang it Logitech, now I'm interested in this new sensor and who it is developed by, if the "white version is China only" then it might be seeing an EU/NA release, in which case I'm buying it...and if it's not released here, I'll find a way to get it here.

On another note, how long until Pixart is up this other sensor manufacturer's butt for violating patent?


----------



## Bucake

i assume it's more of a budget sensor and not some super sensor tbh
cool to see something different though, i wonder what it is / how it works. and i wonder if we'll see it return in more mice and if it's a logitech exclusive


----------



## wareya

honestly I'm sick of existing sensors so let's see where this goes


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i assume it's more of a budget sensor and not some super sensor tbh
> cool to see something different though, i wonder what it is / how it works. and i wonder if we'll see it return in more mice and if it's a logitech exclusive


I mean honestly with ~1CD liftoff if it actually doesn't have smoothing and the framerate isn't absurdly low or something it could be great.


----------



## Bucake

yeah it could. but i doubt the asian crowd is so different that higher numbers don't increase sales. the 12+k cpi 3366 sensor is kind of fantastic in its performance, why trade it with a 6k cpi sensor? i assume it's because of lower cost, not because it's something better.
i haven't read(translated) any of the marketing material, but unless it says anything about it being special and improved hardware, my guess is it's just a cheaper alternative.
because what improvements could it offer, really? maybe it tracks on even more surfaces? nothing else would really matter (for sales), i think..

but hey, who knows. maybe it's the beginning of something better/more optimal


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yeah it could. but i doubt the asian crowd is so different that higher numbers don't increase sales. the 12+k cpi 3366 sensor is kind of fantastic in its performance, why trade it with a 6k cpi sensor? i assume it's because of lower cost, not because it's something better.
> i haven't read(translated) any of the marketing material, but unless it says anything about it being special and improved hardware, my guess is it's just a cheaper alternative.
> because what improvements could it offer, really? maybe it tracks on even more surfaces? nothing else would really matter (for sales), i think..
> 
> but hey, who knows. maybe it's the beginning of something better/more optimal


Maybe its just because its unknown. Its harder to charge a premium for something that is fairly unknown than something that is established to be very good. I doubt it will be better than the 3366, but it could be effectively just as good.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Maybe its just because its unknown. Its harder to charge a premium for something that is fairly unknown than something that is established to be very good. I doubt it will be better than the 3366, but it could be effectively just as good.


If it's actually developed by ST then at least we can hope that there won't be any smoothing or data averaging of some type.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If it's actually developed by ST then at least we can hope that there won't be any smoothing or data averaging of some type.


nah. looks like CGS is responsible, some Swiss company.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Maybe its just because its unknown. Its harder to charge a premium for something that is fairly unknown than something that is established to be very good. I doubt it will be better than the 3366, but it could be effectively just as good.


better than 3366? it's only 6k cpi dude

anyway, according to Ino, the sensor feels at least as good as the 3366. that's at 400cpi. and the lens looks different from anything he's seen, but most of us probably expected that by now.
new tech!








maybe if someone finds a reliable / cheap chinese proxy..?


----------



## wareya

Pixart has, basically, completely trashed their low- and mid- range lines of gaming sensors

it makes sense logitech would look for something else for their low- and mid- tier gaming mice


----------



## daniel0731ex

inb4 this sensor turns out to be better than the 3366, save the lack of UHiCPI settings (Like MLT04 compared to other sensors)


----------



## RealSteelH6

Hopefully no lens rattle


----------



## woll3

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> better than 3366? it's only 6k cpi dude


And you can actually feel that, on low CPI its very good, just feels slightly worse at (very) low speeds than 3366 to me, depends on the Surface ofc as the Goliathus Control amplifies everything, at higher cpi it definitely feels a bit "loose" or less defined in its path compared to the Pro/3366, but then again its clearly a budget product and high level nitpicking, while i have no A9500 at hand atm iirc the cursorpath of "something special" actually looks better than A9500. Also feels better than AM010 to me, especially at higher speeds.

tl;dr would be: not much reason to buy a Pro tbh, and not much reason to buy anything else either leaving shape aside.


----------



## syrell

Chinese will not pay 80 € for a G Pro -like people from EU - thats why they made the g102- Its has not to be a bad mouse though! Who need 12000 dpi- when the sensor works perfect in between 400-800 dpi , I personall< dont care about maximum dpi


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> And you can actually feel that, on low CPI its very good, just feels slightly worse at (very) low speeds than 3366 to me, depends on the Surface ofc as the Goliathus Control amplifies everything, at higher cpi it definitely feels a bit "loose" or less defined in its path compared to the Pro/3366, but then again its clearly a budget product and high level nitpicking, while i have no A9500 at hand atm iirc the cursorpath of "something special" actually looks better than A9500. Also feels better than AM010 to me, especially at higher speeds.
> 
> tl;dr would be: not much reason to buy a Pro tbh, and not much reason to buy anything else either leaving shape aside.


My opinion is similar. I actually prefer the newer sensor to the 3366 at 800 DPI, but it doesn't feel as snappy at 1600+ . That's where the Pro Kinda takes over.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uwotm8?
> 
> my data show 2 frames of smoothing/averaging for 3366, latest srom. and i also see 4 frames for am010 using g100s's register config.
> 
> so my opinion has always been the same: it makes no sense to call 2 frames "zero smoothing" and 4 frames "<1ms smoothing"
> 
> cpate says that he's told there's no smoothing. so at some point, someone got told the wrong thing by someone else.
> 
> the following is just speculation: it could be something stupid like pixart initially made a smoothing-free srom, then enabled the 2 frames in an update without telling logitech, etc...


Sorry, can you elaborate on those "2 frame smoothing" thing? Wan't really on this forum past few month


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> not much reason to buy a Pro tbh, and not much reason to buy anything else either leaving shape aside.


reason? how about the hassle of importing a G102







suddenly not so budget anymore, an extra long wait, and extra risk


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> reason? how about the hassle of importing a G102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> suddenly not so budget anymore, an extra long wait, and extra risk


Then you possibly get a unit with bad quality control.


----------



## cr0wnest

It will ultimately come down to how much Logitech is gonna sell this. Unless the G102 is gonna cost $30 - $40, I don't think it's going to turn a lot of heads from those looking to get the G Pro. Also, I hope they bring this to Asia. I had to order my G Pro from Amazon while the G403 is widely available here in Singapore.


----------



## wareya

honestly even at $45 it would be an alternative to the g pro


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr0wnest*
> 
> It will ultimately come down to how much Logitech is gonna sell this. Unless the G102 is gonna cost $30 - $40, I don't think it's going to turn a lot of heads from those looking to get the G Pro. Also, I hope they bring this to Asia. I had to order my G Pro from Amazon while the G403 is widely available here in Singapore.


It seem to be around 30$ in SEA, nearly the same as g100s and even cheaper than g302
And logitech might use this mouse as a replacement for g pro where it is not available


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> honestly even at $45 it would be an alternative to the g pro


Given the fact G303 is at $43 on amazon right now, one can expect Pro dropping to that price. It's not like it's more advanced in G303 in anything.


----------



## wareya

g303 is cheap because the pro essentially replaces it


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> g303 is cheap because the pro essentially replaces it


It was already cheap before there were news about the Pro. I guess it didn't sell well as its shape is strange, plus of course a lot of people thinking that small mice are just for small hands.


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> It was already cheap before there were news about the Pro. I guess it didn't sell well as its shape is strange, plus of course a lot of people thinking that small mice are just for small hands.


Also don't forget the lens rattle issue with that.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7onoff*
> 
> We need a chinese who will sell these white's on aliexpress


Takasta?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Sorry, can you elaborate on those "2 frame smoothing" thing? Wan't really on this forum past few month


3366 has 2 frames of smoothing on srom7, no smoothing on srom8, and 2 frames on srom9

srom9 is the latest one for g502,g303,g900. i haven't checked for g pro and g403 but i assume it's the same


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3366 has 2 frames of smoothing on srom7, no smoothing on srom8, and 2 frames on srom9
> 
> srom9 is the latest one for g502,g303,g900. i haven't checked for g pro and g403 but i assume it's the same


It would be funny if they sold the mice with "SROM 8" then have the mice updated with "SROM 9" when you install LGS.









_Advert Disclaimer: Sold with absolutely no acceleration, smoothing or filtering, it's only enabled when you "update" the firmware._


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

For the G303, 8 was included in a firmware update in the first version of LGS that worked with the G303. Last firmware update was 9.


----------



## qsxcv

not sure which srom g502 had at release tho...
it's weird


----------



## trhead

White version looks really nice


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> White version looks really nice


I want it, but it's only for China.

Is there no Chinese people outside of China? Are Asians the only people that like white electronics? Do Westerners not like white mice?


----------



## Klopfer

hmmm a Swiss made Sensor ...
hmmm
Colibrys ?
CGS ?!?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> hmmm a Swiss made Sensor ...
> hmmm
> Colibrys ?
> CGS ?!?


The Asian article with pictures linked earlier said CGS.


----------



## Klopfer

ok , thx
know them, but not for mousesensor ...
but could be a good choice, cant say anything bad about them ...


----------



## subreach87

lemme guess, $200?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> lemme guess, $200?


No, NTD = 890 ~> $28.03 USD


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> 400/800/1600/3200 steps, same price as G100s, 200-6000 CPI, maybe some variant of the 3320 with a raised CPI and different scaler like the G402?


3330 or 3310 both are used in higher end budget mice these days a logitech variation of either could be the reason for 6k dpi.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> found some pictures https://www.wstx.com/p-21648-6
> 
> looks absolutely nothing like pixart/avago led illuminated sensors...


----------



## cr0wnest

Now I'm really curious as to how this sensor will perform up against the 3366.. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't much real world difference. If so, and if the price is good, I wouldn't mind picking up the white one to go alongside my black G Pro.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr0wnest*
> Unless the G102 is gonna cost $30 - $40, I don't think it's going to turn a lot of heads from those looking to get the G Pro.


But even for 50$ other people will show interest, one of the biggest complaints i have read about the Pro was the price, paying premium for the Sensor isnt interesting for most i guess.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr0wnest*
> 
> Now I'm really curious as to how this sensor will perform up against the 3366.. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't much real world difference. If so, and if the price is good, I wouldn't mind picking up the white one to go alongside my black G Pro.


There are already 3 Viewpoints in this thread.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> But even for 50$ other people will show interest, one of the biggest complaints i have read about the Pro was the price, paying premium for the Sensor isnt interesting for most i guess.


I am fine playing with an AM010. Sure it could be better, but I have no major issues with it.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> But even for 50$ other people will show interest, one of the biggest complaints i have read about the Pro was the price, paying premium for the Sensor isnt interesting for most i guess.


People shouldn't have to pay a premium to get a reasonably good sensor. They should have to pay a premium for good build quality and a good warranty and customer support. It's a problem of having zero practical competition for gaming sensors, which I'm glad logitech is wary of.

if you look at pixart's in-production lineup, the 336X is the only actual option. Hell, the 3320/3325 shouldn't even be considered gaming sensors, they have a built-in z axis bug. It's pathetic. It's like they're doing it on purpose, or just so totally unbelievably incompetent that nobody should give them (pixart) any money.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> if you look at pixart's in-production lineup, the 336X is the only actual option.


Is there something terribly wrong with 3988? EVGA uses it in their $25 mice.


----------



## wareya

I said in production; there are more options if you go back past 3360/3330/3325, including 3090 etc.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> nobody should give them (pixart) any money.


That's why I'm still using my Kinzu v1 despite the acceleration, horribad tracking code, and ability to make it malfunction just by doing a 180. I like my mice without smoothing and for some reason I can aim much better with mice not bearing Pixart sensors, I was using my DA 3g which is much, much too big and heavy for me, and I was still hitting shots I couldn't hit with any of my other mice, Logitech included.

Not sure if it's placebo or not, but I definitely hit way more crazy shots as Widowmaker with the S3668/VT5366 than I ever did with a 3310/3360 (3366 included) and you can't say it's "just the shape" because the DA is definitely an awful shape for me, I get terrible cramping in my hand after a short period of time. The Kinzu shape however, is a very good shape for me so the shots I hit with the Kinzu can be narrowed down to shape being the right one for me.


----------



## wareya

80% placebo probably

my DA has most of the same problems tracking wise as my 3090 and 3320 mice, except the 3320 mouse has smoothing and the 3090 mouse has a broken scrollwheel (gg no re)

I really need to get this 3320 mouse hacked up...

edit: fun fact the 3320 actually tracks in isolation with my 3310 lense, but that lense definitely does not fit in this 3320 mouse (xornet 2)

I tried mutilating the lense to shift it into a different position to eliminate the z-axis bug, but it stops tracking before the bug goes away, at least when fitted correctly.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> 80% placebo probably
> 
> my DA has most of the same problems tracking wise as my 3090 and 3320 mice, except the 3320 mouse has smoothing and the 3090 mouse has a broken scrollwheel (gg no re)
> 
> I really need to get this 3320 mouse hacked up...


I own no mice with a 3090, besides the not so great Zowie implementations with pixel walk, and those have horribad click latency so I can't exactly use those for a proper comparison to my other mice such as the Deathadder 3G or the Kinzu v1 because I would miss shots due to the high click latency alone due to how fast paced Overwatch is. Isn't the 3090 just a 3060 (which the S3668 is based on?) with a new SROM?


----------



## wareya

Pixel walk during liftoff is a thing on all 3090s, at least at non-800 dpi, as long as the firmware doesn't handle liftoff. And if liftoff is handled but in a trivial or unintelligent way then you can experience negative acceleration at high speeds because some periods of time may have bad SQUAL values even though they're tracking.

don't know about sensor families but the 3090, 3095, 3668, and 3888 all appear to come from the same family of SROMs at least (same length, and shared header information). They're encrypted so I don't know more than that, but I do know the encryption has to be weak because picture related http://i.imgur.com/Ul4Hzn1.png (there are similar shared strings in other sroms, including ones from different mice, this one is just absolutely absurd because it's in the exact same place.)


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Is there something terribly wrong with 3988? EVGA uses it in their $25 mice.


EVGA x5 Optical .... really nice mouse , for me good implementation, nice shape , good mouse ... much underrated ...


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I said in production; there are more options if you go back past 3360/3330/3325, including 3090 etc.


I don't get it then, sorry. It's still listed on their site so i supposed it's still in production.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> EVGA x5 Optical .... really nice mouse , for me good implementation, nice shape , good mouse ... much underrated ...


only issue for me was stiff clicks, fixable by changing switch but they get very light with new switch...

and possibly grip, I got sweaty hands in the summer.









it's a little "low" for me but these points are all just preference.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I don't get it then, sorry. It's still listed on their site so i supposed it's still in production.


The trick is "Design Support:" "Existing" That implies they don't support manufacturers that are making a new design with that sensor. In other words, anything with that categorization is in the grace period between "in production" and "end of life".


----------



## ImpedingMadness

LOL, I just found this, using 3050.


Dimension 118*63*38 mm
More info

I wonder if it has the same internal structure with g pro/g102 making it possible to swap the case


----------



## munchzilla

same dimensions? shell doesn't look the same though... diff shape and angles?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> LOL, I just found this, using 3050.
> 
> 
> Dimension 118*63*38 mm
> More info
> 
> I wonder if it has the same internal structure with g pro/g102 making it possible to swap the case


That is pretty much identical to the imagic gmouse2 or g2 or whatever just with different sides. Why would it be at all the same internally? I also don't really see what is funny. Its a cheap ODM mouse with a vaguely similar shape. For some reason I can't find the imagic website anymore, but they have 2 mice with 3050 sensors. One is that shape on is more similar to a g100s.

Edit: Oh, here you go http://www.imagicinput.co.kr/board/mouse , they call that the "g2 plus" the regular g2 has been out for quite a while though. I believe over a year. I guess another company contacted the ODM to slap their brand on it and start selling it too.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That is pretty much identical to the imagic gmouse2 or g2 or whatever just with different sides. Why would it be at all the same internally? I also don't really see what is funny. Its a cheap ODM mouse with a vaguely similar shape. For some reason I can't find the imagic website anymore, but they have 2 mice with 3050 sensors. One is that shape on is more similar to a g100s.
> 
> Edit: Oh, here you go http://www.imagicinput.co.kr/board/mouse , they call that the "g2 plus" the regular g2 has been out for quite a while though. I believe over a year. I guess another company contacted the ODM to slap their brand on it and start selling it too.


This is their other mouse
With 2 samples of their only 2 line ups, their designs are based on other mouse. Separated LB and RB from the body, that curvature, dimension, that one dpi button on same location, side buttons on left side whilst having ambi shape, vaguely similar? Coincidence so much?
It's amusing for me, only like several months and boom, this appeared. I never heard about imagic as well so that g100s clone is also amusing for me. The chance of somebody else selling this shape+3360 to Asian market before official logitech is amusing.

Sorry, let me rephrase it, by same I mean some similarities so it is easier to transplant the mobo to that, I'm too lazy to type all that and just shorten it to same. Do you have g2 internal shot? If there's no similarities then I'll close the case.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> This is their other mouse
> With 2 samples of their only 2 line ups, their designs are based on other mouse. Separated LB and RB from the body, that curvature, dimension, that one dpi button on same location, side buttons on left side whilst having ambi shape, vaguely similar? Coincidence so much?
> It's amusing for me, only like several months and boom, this appeared. I never heard about imagic as well so that g100s clone is also amusing for me. The chance of somebody else selling this shape+3360 to Asian market before official logitech is amusing.
> 
> Sorry, let me rephrase it, by same I mean some similarities so it is easier to transplant the mobo to that, I'm too lazy to type all that and just shorten it to same. Do you have g2 internal shot? If there's no similarities then I'll close the case.


I don't have internal pictures, but there probably are some on an asian review site somewhere. Its mainly sold in asia and their reviews tend to show internals more than western reviews. That other mouse is pretty interesting though. Its a Kana clone, but the size is half way between the kinzu and the kana. I should find their ODM, get them to throw a 3360 in those shells, and sell them for 50$ a piece. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes







.

Edit: I need to find a pro and say they designed it though. For the name I'm thinking the Pro Elite S One


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

3050... Waste of money. Slowpoke sensor. In SS rival 100 i have mod of this sensor and it's the worst thing that I was holding


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I don't have internal pictures, but there probably are some on an asian review site somewhere. Its mainly sold in asia and their reviews tend to show internals more than western reviews. That other mouse is pretty interesting though. Its a Kana clone, but the size is half way between the kinzu and the kana. I should find their ODM, get them to throw a 3360 in those shells, and sell them for 50$ a piece. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Edit: I need to find a pro and say they designed it though. For the name I'm thinking the Pro Elite S One


That one almost made me wanted to buy that. Ambi with side button on both side, like the old Intellimouse 1.
Maybe transplant a good sensor and I'm a happy man, except that glossy finish. Glossy finish and me isn't a best bud, tried to mod one and failed badly.

Find one, make a non glossy one, and I'll become one of your customer, not the first, but one of them








PS: I like Pro Elite One better, and if there is any name revision, don't ever put 'final'. That's an instant badluck charm


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> That one almost made me wanted to buy that. Ambi with side button on both side, like the old Intellimouse 1.
> Maybe transplant a good sensor and I'm a happy man, except that glossy finish. Glossy finish and me isn't a best bud, tried to mod one and failed badly.
> 
> Find one, make a non glossy one, and I'll become one of your customer, not the first, but one of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I like Pro Elite One better, and if there is any name revision, don't ever put 'final'. That's an instant badluck charm


Red square 1337


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> The trick is "Design Support:" "Existing" That implies they don't support manufacturers that are making a new design with that sensor. In other words, anything with that categorization is in the grace period between "in production" and "end of life".


Thanks for clarification. Then it basically means Pixart's new offerings are only 336X, 3325 and 3330...


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Red square 1337


Beware of huano blues. They also call the sensor "Avago 3360" on official site.

Oh and also 500hz default. Somehow it reminds me of final something.


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I should find their ODM, get them to throw a 3360 in those shells, and sell them for 50$ a piece. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


a 3310 would be even enough


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> only issue for me was stiff clicks, fixable by changing switch but they get very light with new switch...
> 
> and possibly grip, I got sweaty hands in the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's a little "low" for me but these points are all just preference.


Which switches did you use by the way? I'll probably swap them out now that you mention it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Beware of huano blues. They also call the sensor "Avago 3360" on official site.
> 
> Oh and also 500hz default. Somehow it reminds me of final something.


Huano blue are (I guess) supposed to be an alternative to the 20m Chinese Omrons. They might even be more consistent in actuation force than the 20m Omrons. Omrons can be somewhere between 45-75g -- if they were always 75g people would say they are too stiff and hate them like they do Huanos.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Huano blue are (I guess) supposed to be an alternative to the 20m Chinese Omrons. They might even be more consistent in actuation force than the 20m Omrons. Omrons can be somewhere between 45-75g -- if they were always 75g people would say they are too stiff and hate them like they do Huanos.


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeecrear.com%2F%3Fp%3D12054&edit-text=&act=url

I would assume Omron 50m's would be even more consistent than the 20m's.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Huano blue are (I guess) supposed to be an alternative to the 20m Chinese Omrons. They might even be more consistent in actuation force than the 20m Omrons. Omrons can be somewhere between 45-75g -- if they were always 75g people would say they are too stiff and hate them like they do Huanos.


I don't know, all mice i ever had were more or less the same when it comes to clicks, and i have mice with 5M, 10M and 20M. 5Ms definitely _feel_ the best for me though, especially when spamming stuff. I get a feeling though huanos have different travel profile, thus not that good for spamming. I guess Zippy switches from MX series would be praised very much if they were used in any of modern mice.

Upd.: speaking of travel, was browsing omron's D2F(japanese) pdfs the other day, they have like +-0.3mm difference in pretravel. Which means 0.2-0.8. I lol'd abit.


----------



## Ligh0ff

is the g102 confirmed to have an international version? if it is less than 40 € with reasonable good sensor,with this shape could be a best buy


----------



## Bucake

anyone else noticed the PCBs (G Pro / G102) seem to be interchangeable?
i can imagine a few individuals might prefer one shell, but the other pcb/sensor. so if i saw it right, i guess you can do that without any destruction

edit: i'm thinking the shell and PCB fit might've been designed from ground up with both models/sensors in mind. of course it could just be that they found something that worked with the existing pcb, but the former would make sense


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Huano blue are (I guess) supposed to be an alternative to the 20m Chinese Omrons. They might even be more consistent in actuation force than the 20m Omrons. Omrons can be somewhere between 45-75g -- if they were always 75g people would say they are too stiff and hate them like they do Huanos.


Which one is the huano blues in this context? The one with blue shell with white clicker or the black shell with blue clicker?
I actually like the blue shell one, stiffer but more consistent than chinese omron.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> Which one is the huano blues in this context? The one with blue shell with white clicker or the black shell with blue clicker?
> I actually like the blue shell one, stiffer but more consistent than chinese omron.


I was referring to the ones Zowie uses.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> 3050... Waste of money. Slowpoke sensor. In SS rival 100 i have mod of this sensor and it's the worst thing that I was holding


Agreed but SOME here on OCN actually think it's far better than the MLT04 sensor







.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Agreed but SOME here on OCN actually think it's far better than the MLT04 sensor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It has a higher malfunction speed and no sensor-based smoothing, that's quite a fair opinion to have.

I like the Kinzu v1 because it has a good shape, it's lightweight, and has no smoothing, but it actually stops tracking much quicker than the MLT04 and the tracking code is much worse, does that mean my opinion is the wrong opinion? No, my idea of what is usable is entirely different to what someone else's idea of usable is.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> People shouldn't have to pay a premium to get a reasonably good sensor. They should have to pay a premium for good build quality and a good warranty and customer support. It's a problem of having zero practical competition for gaming sensors, which I'm glad logitech is wary of.
> 
> if you look at pixart's in-production lineup, the 336X is the only actual option. Hell, the 3320/3325 shouldn't even be considered gaming sensors, they have a built-in z axis bug. It's pathetic. It's like they're doing it on purpose, or just so totally unbelievably incompetent that nobody should give them (pixart) any money.


"Reasonably good" in terms of sensor choice and overall performance needs to be defined, to me personally it seems that standards in this regard are lower than ever/people dont care about wasting money on overpriced stuff, or even majorly undercutting stuff that performs quite bad for its "main feature".

Some companies also seem to have lost a few damn´s they could give over the last 1-2 years, best example would be Roccat with the Kiro and Kova, ill also plug it in later to check for Z-Axis weirdness, but i cant recall any problems with it in that regard.


----------



## wareya

here's what defines a "reasonably good" sensor to me:

- will never spin out or malfunction during normal gameplay, even if you accidentally "tilt swipe" the sensor
- has a reasonably high max tracking speed, at least 3m/s
- low SRAV/acceleration on cloth pads, even cheap ones
- at least 800dpi max, preferably at least 1500ish
- no-ish smoothing (less than 0.5ms latency effect)
- low jitter at reasonable DPIs
- no angle snapping / motion path prediction
- doesn't fall asleep and require 200ms of motion before it starts tracking again
- liftoff distance is in the 1~2.5 CD range on cloth pads
- no z-axis bug
- doesn't stop working correctly near the liftoff distance
- isn't implemented with a liftoff detection mechanism that causes negative acceleration at high speeds

afaik the 336X is the only existing optical sensor that qualifies for all of that. There exist laser sensors that hit everything but low SRAV, but they have bad SRAV.

3090 fails the "doesn't stop working correctly near the liftoff distance" and on some mice "liftoff vs negative acceleration" points.


----------



## syrell

the 3310. zowie is using- is also a good sensor!
2,5Cds is way to high LOD for me . I would say 1-1.5 cds is perfect for me.
I have to agree that the DPI race is marketing stupidness. RGB and Trillion DPI is for the kids in my opinion!


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> 3090 fails the "doesn't stop working correctly near the liftoff distance" and on some mice "liftoff vs negative acceleration" points.


What do you mean with this and the z-axis issue you are having?


----------



## wareya

I'm having z-axis bugs with 3320-like sensors, not 3090

the 3090 jitters out near the liftoff distance limit on non-800dpi


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> ....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> ....


Those two posts show what i mean, different people have different standards, my problem however is that general laziness(or rather unwillingness) is accepted as long as something is somewhat "sufficient", and more importantly that people are so blind towards what could be considered "anti-marketing" despite catchy slogans about "perfection", altough this leaves the sensor area as people are still too focused just on that, Skylit is right when he says that the Sensor list doesnt hold much value anymore due to all the other variables, the undercutting 3360´s compared to well rounded packages(e.g. X5o, KPM) are a good example of that, or in those cases even the R100.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I'm having z-axis bugs with 3320-like sensors, not 3090


If you mean the cursor moving downwards a bit, that's really not a bug and it isn't really any detrimental. I would call it a bug if it was like the old PTEs where the cursor didn't negate the effect on reposition.


----------



## wareya

I don't think 20 pixels is a "bit", and it really is a bug.


----------



## trism

Well I guess we have a different definition for the word "bug". Personally I don't think a lack of a compensation logic for a normal phenomenon is a _bug_, rather just a bad (and cheap) design







A3090 does the same thing unless it is compensated with a LoD-detection.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I don't think 20 pixels is a "bit", and it really is a bug.


Then 3360 doesn't meet your requirements either. It may not be 20 counts at low DPI due to lower liftoff, but the 3366 for me with standard liftoff moves at least 5 pixels even on what seems to be a straight lift. I don't really have something to make sure it is 100% straight though I guess. It moves back very close to where it was before when I place it back down though. You are the only person I've ever heard refer to anything that doesn't cause systematic movement in a certain direction on multiple lifts and placements a z-axis bug.


----------



## wareya

The cursor moves because the mouse itself moves, z-axis bugs exist for a completely different reason: the optically "active" part of the lense is, itself, *literally* off-center compared to the sensor


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> The cursor moves because the mouse itself moves, z-axis bugs exist for a completely different reason: the optically "active" part of the lense is, itself, *literally* off-center compared to the sensor


Idk it seems to me no matter what it move down on lift and up when placing it back down.


----------



## wareya

Try kicking the lense out of where it's stuck.


----------



## trism

I would assume it is because of this and if by "optical active part" you refer to the light coming from an angle, then yes, I agree.

(edit, yes my timings are a tad off for the reading at times which results into a blank/max saturated pixel)


----------



## wareya

No I'm referring to the actual lense piece in front of the sensor

You can see it in this picture someone else took: http://i.imgur.com/7tjjEsA.jpg

In that picture, the inlet overall is perfectly centered on the "nipple" on the bottom of the sensor's IC. Said "nipple" has a pinhole directly in the center so that only the tracking surface significantly effects the sensor's image acquisition area. However, in the lense, the smooth clear "actual lense piece" is totally not in the center at all.

On other mice this is centered or nearly centered, so the only thing that affects the skew of the cursor's sensor as you lift it is the way the lense may shift around during operation, thus offsetting the "actual lense piece" but the lense is still able to get put into a position where it doesn't do this.. On the 332X (including the abyssus V2) this is totally not in the center at all, which give the sensor an _inherent_ z-axis bug, in direct correspondence with the design, because the central pixel of the tracking surface literally _must_ move on the sensor's acquisition area because optics 101.

I'm pretty sure they did this to reduce the amount of vertical space the sensor takes up without affecting the depth of field but it's still really bad. (my 3310 lense lets my 3320 kind of track, but it doesn't fit. and modifying the 3320 lense so that it fits with the "actual lense piece" centered on the pinhole causes it to stop tracking, probably defocusing due to being closer.)


----------



## trism

That's not the regular lens though. It's the one that drops CPI. I'll try to find the Xornet V2 default lens so I can do a comparison video and see if it is skewed even when placed on the surface. Personally I am using the Rival 100 lens with my PMW3320 thingmajigy.

If someone is interested, here is the lift-off behavior for the 3366. Please don't mind my coffee jitters.














(The right frame is just showing the previous frame)


----------



## wareya

I have the xornet II default lense and the abyssus v2 default lense and they both have the problem. The 3325 datasheet also depicts a lense that has the problem.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I have the xornet II default lense and the abyssus v2 default lense and they both have the problem. The 3325 datasheet also depicts a lense that has the problem.


Yeah that lens actually looks like the Xornet one. In that case, it is a design flaw. I wouldn't still call it a "bug" but potato potato.







I'll see if I can find the Xornet lens. I have two Xornets in boxes though so might just open one of them.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Skylit is right when he says that the Sensor list doesnt hold much value anymore


i disagree. maybe you're judging it too much per the perspective of the "average gamer", who still thinks that a mouse can be judged on sensor alone.
9800 = 3366 = PTE = 3050? well, no, which i think is why the list is handy. it's just information, a good reference.
any "flawless sensor" list however...


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i disagree. maybe you're judging it too much per the perspective of the "average gamer", who still thinks that a mouse can be judged on sensor alone.
> 9800 = 3366 = PTE = 3050? well, no, which i think is why the list is handy. it's just information, a good reference.
> any "flawless sensor" list however...


I think that woll3 means it's useless in the sense of there's not really a reason to buy a top of the line sensor nowadays due to the often shoddy "implementation" of it, and a proper "implementation" of an older sensor is better than that of a terribly done newer sensor, perfect example being the S3095 is wonderful in pretty much every sense with the exception of the lack of 50-100 CPI increments native, and the FPS if you're worried about that.


----------



## Bucake

yeah, but even if that initially was the role of the list (find mice with good sensors?), i still see the value in it now. implementation/quality aside, you will still get a good idea of what to expect if you know which sensor is in a mouse. (specs, traits, limitations, risks..)

even in the "earlier days" you could see different mice using the same sensor, but with different performances. i mean.. it's nothing new.
maybe the only difference is that today there are more brands selling mice, and most of them sell cheap mice for big prices.

i like it. a quick peek to see which sensor is in the mouse you're looking at.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yeah, but even if that initially was the role of the list (find mice with good sensors?), i still see the value in it now. implementation/quality aside, you will still get a good idea of what to expect if you know which sensor is in a mouse. (specs, traits, limitations, risks..)
> 
> even in the "earlier days" you could see different mice using the same sensor, but with different performances. i mean.. it's nothing new.
> maybe the only difference is that today there are more brands selling mice, and most of them sell cheap mice for big prices.
> 
> i like it. a quick peek to see which sensor is in the mouse you're looking at.


I agree with you, I'm just stating what I think woll3 was talking about, I reference it pretty much all the time when buying a new mouse, I also reference the MCU list from time to time when purchasing a new mouse out of curiosity.


----------



## Bucake

yeah, but what gave you the idea i misunderstood him? he said they think the list doesn't hold much value, and i said i disagree


----------



## Alya

The internet is a mysterious place where you must guess if the person understood the post or not.


----------



## wareya

nah just flip a coin everything'll be alright


----------



## M1st

It's not like anything else in the specs is as important as sensor. Switches are important actually but amost every high end mouse has 20M Omrons anyway (xcept Zowie).


----------



## wareya

20m omrons aren't even magic


----------



## TheNoobSlayer

I hope this mouse is real, i loved my g100s but the left click broke and i can't find any for a decent price anymore. Having that with just a bit more tracking speed and better clicks/materials for a decent price would be soo nice... I don't wanna pay $100+tax canadian for the G Pro but i want the shape so bad


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNoobSlayer*
> 
> I hope this mouse is real, i loved my g100s but the left click broke and i can't find any for a decent price anymore. Having that with just a bit more tracking speed and better clicks/materials for a decent price would be soo nice... I don't wanna pay $100+tax canadian for the G Pro but i want the shape so bad


G100s is one of the most serviceable mouse that lets you replace microswitches without desoldering.


----------



## qsxcv

wot how?


----------



## TheNoobSlayer

sounds good i have nothing too lose and would love if i could get it running till i upgrade


----------



## MFlow

I will receive g102 white within few days. I live in Korea. It is of customs clearance in Incheon port.


----------



## DrakeBlackX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> def no rgb lights
> 
> looks to be like the g302/3 split, where this will be the budget version with a different sensor


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> def no rgb lights
> 
> looks to be like the g302/3 split, where this will be the budget version with a different sensor


really? i have read 2 articles about this this mice and both says that this mice will feature RGB lighting


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrakeBlackX*
> 
> really? i have read 2 articles about this this mice and both says that this mice will feature RGB lighting


Well, my white G102 has RGB.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrakeBlackX*
> 
> really? i have read 2 articles about this this mice and both says that this mice will feature RGB lighting


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Well, my white G102 has RGB.


I'm tired of waiting g102 white.
Maybe still in the ship.?


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Well, my white G102 has RGB.


pics or it didn't happen


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> pics or it didn't happen


Check china official website.
Definitely rgb...mercury censor.
What is mercury censor. .i never heard that name of censor.


----------



## RealSteelH6

I just wanted to see some more real life pics of the g102














.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> I just wanted to see some more real life pics of the g102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Try asking Ino.
I will receive white102 next Tuesday.


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> What is mercury censor. .i never heard that name of censor.


could be a slefmade sensor from swiss


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> pics or it didn't happen


Uh, I used it on stream, don't know if the lighting really shows it, but it is on color cycle because LGS doesn't register it so I can't change that. I can't link now because I'm at work where twitch is banned


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> I just wanted to see some more real life pics of the g102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Easy, chinese forums or press release sites. People that ordered it on the site are starting to receive it over there.


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> pics or it didn't happen


http://gaming.logitech.com/zh-cn/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

How feels sensor in g102?
What it is similar to the sensations?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Uh, I used it on stream, don't know if the lighting really shows it, but it is on color cycle because LGS doesn't register it so I can't change that. I can't link now because I'm at work where twitch is banned


obviously it's overclock that needs the ban


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrakeBlackX*
> 
> really? i have read 2 articles about this this mice and both says that this mice will feature RGB lighting


The product page says there is RGB.


----------



## zeflow

Literally only thing different is the sensor? Same buttons, rgb, comes in white, better cable...Ok.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Literally only thing different is the sensor? Same buttons, rgb, comes in white, better cable...Ok.


It's a non braided cable, 6000 CPI sensor, 10m Chinese Omron switch version of the Pro that comes in black as well as white. Sounds great if you can solder.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's a non braided cable, 6000 CPI sensor, 10m Chinese Omron switch version of the Pro that comes in black as well as white. Sounds great if you can solder.


Agreed


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's a non braided cable, 6000 CPI sensor, 10m Chinese Omron switch version of the Pro that comes in black as well as white. Sounds great if you can solder.


sorry for the ignorant question but what does 10m stand for? (10 millon click,or has sometjing to do with the actuation force/point ?)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Agreed


The pictures show that it isn't glossy, but it does appear more rough in texture than the Pro.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> sorry for the ignorant question but what does 10m stand for? (10 millon click,or has sometjing to do with the actuation force/point ?)


10 million clicks (potentially). They have a less resilient metal, so it won't last as long.


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The pictures show that it isn't glossy, but it does appear more rough in texture than the Pro.
> 10 million clicks (potentially). They have a less resilient metal, so it won't last as long.


something like the g100s switch,they broke after 1/2 month beacuse the switch oxidizes as i read on many forums


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> something like the g100s switch,they broke after 1/2 month beacuse the switch oxidizes as i read on many forums


I assume the G102 is supposed to replace the G100s. In terms of value it does a good job at that, but not in terms of shape and weight.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> obviously it's overclock that needs the ban


Well I mainly check during calls that I have to listen too but have no say in. But it's just a generic filter that blocks gaming, pron and violence stuff.


----------



## Melan

Well this site has gaming mouse pron and violence. Needs a ban asap.


----------



## t00t

I'm a bit out of the loop on this mouse. Is it going to actually be for sale in EU / US areas or is it an Asia Markets only type deal?


----------



## Astoresa

G102 Features
The language is korean


----------



## MFlow

I received g102 prodigy white.







[/URL]
It has 16.8m rgb.


----------



## wonderboysam

Is mouse3 the exact same as the G Pro?

(Found mine slow to click in/bounce back making spamming it difficult)


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Is mouse3 the exact same as the G Pro?
> 
> (Found mine slow to click in/bounce back making spamming it difficult)


Top right is the g pro.
The white mouse is g102 prodigy.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Top right is the g pro.
> The white mouse is g102 prodigy.


Yea I meant the scroll wheel click!


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Yea I meant the scroll wheel click!


Wheel click pressure weaker than g pro.
Likewise, m1 and m2 weaker than g pro.


----------



## syrell

the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


G102 is despite using the buttons tension technology is similar to the click feeling g1.


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


rip this mouse for me,missclick like no tomorrow,buttons are too weak


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


This was also my issue with the G Pro.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the m1 +m2 is even weaker? rly, I mean the G Pro clicks were already too soft for me.


The variance with Chinese Omrons is high depending on the batch. You could get a large batch of mice with soft buttons or stiff buttons, You could even get very different actuation force for each button. Regardless, people love Chinese Omrons.


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I received g102 prodigy white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL]
> It has 16.8m rgb.


can you please post more pics of the white g102?


----------



## syrell

the worst misleading picture by Logitech Korea- the mice have totally different shapes :







.
If they would have used the old classic superior shape, I would never had to mod.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> can you please post more pics of the white g102?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Guess adding a white cable to a white mouse cost too much. Whatever. I already have a white cable for mine when it eventually arrives.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

*MFlow*
Mercury = 3366 or not?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Guess adding a white cable to a white mouse cost too much. Whatever. I already have a white cable for mine when it eventually arrives.


They probably use the cable from the Pro without adding the braid.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> *MFlow*
> Mercury = 3366 or not?


The G102 doesn't use a PixArt 3366. The Pro is the PixArt 3366 mouse.


----------



## Derp

hehehaha


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> hehehaha


It'd be hilarious if it actually means "Unboxing and first impressions".


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> It'd be hilarious if it actually means "Unboxing and first impressions".


----------



## Ufasas

shape looks very fun, and symetrical is good thing for me, won't be hard to go from abyssus to this, WANT


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk




----------



## syrell

I dislike the mechanical mousewheel detection! Can sb test the sensor , to find out how accurate it is working with Mousetester


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I dislike the mechanical mousewheel detection! Can sb test the sensor , to find out how accurate it is working with Mousetester


People in Korea felt the sensor has angle snapping in itself.
Software not support
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I dislike the mechanical mousewheel detection! Can sb test the sensor , to find out how accurate it is working with Mousetester


People in Korea has felt the sensor has angle snapping in itself.
Software not support angle snap on/off.
I felt the strength of angle snap is like 3090 sensor.
Most of Korean using g102 has been satisfied with new sensor, but quality of button switch m1 m2 is bad.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> People in Korea felt the sensor has angle snapping in itself.
> Software not support
> People in Korea has felt the sensor has angle snapping in itself.
> Software not support angle snap on/off.
> I felt the strength of angle snap is like 3090 sensor.
> Most of Korean using g102 has been satisfied with new sensor, but quality of button switch m1 m2 is bad.


3090 has on/off option, afaik, and vast majority of mice have snapping off by default.

edit: typo


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> People in Korea has felt the sensor has angle snapping in itself.
> Software not support angle snap on/off.
> I felt the strength of angle snap is like 3090 sensor.
> Most of Korean using g102 has been satisfied with new sensor, but quality of button switch m1 m2 is bad.


Buttons on mine are fine, but mine is also older (something might have changed?)
But I tried the sensor for quite some time and it never felt like angle snapping to me at all. I'll try again when I'm back home.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Buttons on mine are fine, but mine is also older (something might have changed?)
> But I tried the sensor for quite some time and it never felt like angle snapping to me at all. I'll try again when I'm back home.


Nevertheless specification notices zero smoothing technology, many owners of g102 felt angle snapping.
Some people like angle snapping, but some people dont like it, so i dont know why logitech didnt add on/off functionality to the software.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Nevertheless specification notices zero smoothing technology, many owners of g102 felt angle snapping.


Or 1 person said "angle snapping" 10 times and then 1000 repeated. In other words - any proof?
I've been reading these forums for quite a long time and i've seen A LOT of placebo and other occult stuff.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Buttons on mine are fine, but mine is also older (something might have changed?)
> But I tried the sensor for quite some time and it never felt like angle snapping to me at all. I'll try again when I'm back home.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Or 1 person said "angle snapping" 10 times and then 1000 repeated. In other words - any proof?
> I've been reading these forums for quite a long time and i've seen A LOT placebo and other occult stuff.


So you have proof zero smoothing?
Did you try it?
Sometimes people's senses are more important than evidence, and if the majority of people feel it, not one or two, is it evidence?
You like proof.
The same thing happened with rgb last time.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> So you have proof zero smoothing?
> Did you try it?
> Sometimes people's senses are more important than evidence, and if the majority of people feel it, not one or two, is it evidence?
> You like proof.
> The same thing happened with rgb last time.


I wasn't talking about smoothing, i was talking about angle snapping, which is different thing. I also didn't mention RGB. And i'm not Ino.
You can't talk about majority even when 1000 ppl said something, majority actually usually says nothing. And then there are people who just repeat after someone, that's why testing is necessary.
Without proof these "feelings" mean nothing.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I wasn't talking about smoothing, i was talking about angle snapping, which is different thing. I also didn't mention RGB. And i'm not Ino.
> You can't talk about majority even when 1000 ppl said something, majority actually usually says nothing. And then there are people who just repeat after someone, that's why testing is necessary.
> Without proof these "feelings" mean nothing.


So how do you prove angle snapping to the sensor?
Let me know ill prove it using that method.
Shall i show it on the drawing board?
So can you believe it?


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I wasn't talking about smoothing, i was talking about angle snapping, which is different thing. I also didn't mention RGB. And i'm not Ino.
> You can't talk about majority even when 1000 ppl said something, majority actually usually says nothing. And then there are people who just repeat after someone, that's why testing is necessary.
> Without proof these "feelings" mean nothing.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I wasn't talking about smoothing, i was talking about angle snapping, which is different thing. I also didn't mention RGB. And i'm not Ino.
> You can't talk about majority even when 1000 ppl said something, majority actually usually says nothing. And then there are people who just repeat after someone, that's why testing is necessary.
> Without proof these "feelings" mean nothing.


Use or buy 102? If you do not, for what reason do you want know?
If you do not have a good reason, please ask politely from now on.
No please dont comment from next time.


----------



## Bucake

y... uh, did a child make those spirals...
the picture is very pixelated anyways, and the creator didn't use Pencil at 1px for some reason.
testing for angle snapping is pretty much the easiest thing to do, heh.

well, it probably won't be too long before people outside of asia start receiving theirs


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> y... uh, did a child make those spirals...
> the picture is very pixelated anyways, and the creator didn't use Pencil at 1px for some reason.
> testing for angle snapping is pretty much the easiest thing to do, heh.
> 
> well, it probably won't be too long before people outside of asia start receiving theirs


Would you show me the way testing for angle snapping?
I don't know other ways.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Would you show me the way testing for angle snapping?
> I don't know other ways.


Just do the paint test. Angle snapping is very simple to test. Use pencil at 1px thickness and draw circles. With angle snapping the sides will not be round. Of course you need to try to make your hand move as much in circles as possible which is why people draw spirals.


----------



## syrell

or try to paint a straight horizontal line! If the line is perfect u have angle snapping on!


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> try to paint a straight horizontal line! If the line is perfect u have angle snapping on!


I'm not at home now.
I've already done that.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just do the paint test. Angle snapping is very simple to test. Use pencil at 1px thickness and draw circles. With angle snapping the sides will not be round. Of course you need to try to make your hand move as much in circles as possible which is why people draw spirals.


I already uploaded the images tested in china.
Have you checked with your g102?


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> Use or buy 102? If you do not, for what reason do you want know?
> If you do not have a good reason, please ask politely from now on.
> No please dont comment from next time.


I have a good reason that it's a new sensor and i'm interested in how it performs, and given the fact it's not available here i can't test it.

I dunno why are u raging so hard. It's normal to show proof if you make claims.

Again - there's been alot of people on this forum posting something that turned out FALSE in testing.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I already uploaded the images tested in china.
> Have you checked with your g102?


I can't before tomorrow afternoon. And the one you uploaded is with a thick pencil and also blurry. Also the person who did those spirals didn't seem to care to make accurate hand movements. Some parts of this look like angle snapping while others don't at all.
Anyway, I'll do it tomorrow.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I have a good reason that it's a new sensor and i'm interested in how it performs, and given the fact it's not available here i can't test it.
> 
> I dunno why are u raging so hard. It's normal to show proof if you make claims.
> 
> Again - there's been alot of people on this forum posting something that turned out FALSE in testing.


I'm not at home.
False? What false?
Image is already uploaded.
You are so rude.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> I'm not at home.
> False? What false?
> Image is already uploaded.
> You are so rude.


Please, if you don't understand what i'm saying, don't make accusations. I'm bailing out anyway.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Please, if you don't understand what i'm saying, don't make accusations. I'm bailing out anyway.


Haha!
The image of concentric circles not enough?
So you ought to buy g102 and use it.
I'm sorry.


----------



## woll3

Find the G403:


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I can't before tomorrow afternoon. And the one you uploaded is with a thick pencil and also blurry. Also the person who did those spirals didn't seem to care to make accurate hand movements. Some parts of this look like angle snapping while others don't at all.
> Anyway, I'll do it tomorrow.


My painting skills are terrible.
See the concentric circle picture I tested in China before.
Test your free motion mouse with yours.
I am too tired.

anglesnap.png 7k .png file


----------



## wareya

I can't see any angle snapping. Can you take the "pencil" tool in MS Paint, and try to draw vertical lines? It's best if you slightly go in and out of being perfectly straight. If there's angle snapping, we will be able to see where it turns on and off.

Here's an example of what I mean, using a mouse with no angle snapping. http://i.imgur.com/VnlLxHR.png


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I can't see any angle snapping. Can you take the "pencil" tool in MS Paint, and try to draw vertical lines? It's best if you slightly go in and out of being perfectly straight. If there's angle snapping, we will be able to see where it turns on and off.
> 
> Here's an example of what I mean, using a mouse with no angle snapping. http://i.imgur.com/VnlLxHR.png


g102 prodigy is not perfect freemove mouse..

anglesnap4.png 17k .png file


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I can't see any angle snapping. Can you take the "pencil" tool in MS Paint, and try to draw vertical lines? It's best if you slightly go in and out of being perfectly straight. If there's angle snapping, we will be able to see where it turns on and off.
> 
> Here's an example of what I mean, using a mouse with no angle snapping. http://i.imgur.com/VnlLxHR.png


Zalman 4k using 3090sensor hard to draw circle without straight line.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> g102 prodigy is not perfect freemove mouse..
> 
> anglesnap4.png 17k .png file


Looks like kind of kinzu v1 with lower jitter


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> g102 prodigy is not perfect freemove mouse..
> 
> anglesnap4.png 17k .png file


That is definitely angle snapping, I'd have to try it for myself to compare it to the Kinzu though, I remember my G100s had very minor angle snapping.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Use MouseTester instead of paint for angle snapping circle-test. Set to x vs y.


----------



## RealSteelH6

The G102 is on ebay now.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Maus-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/232131741012


----------



## SmashTV

Might have to import one of these.

Unless there's an American release coming.


----------



## Ino.

On topic of angle snapping:



will have to zoom in
It's not angle snapping, it's just the regular Avago/Pixart way. The only sensor I know that behaves differently is MLT04 which allows for (x,y) changes of (1,1) instead of the Avago/Pixart way of (1,0);(0,1)


----------



## wareya

yes, if it were angle snapping, those 1px changes in y on the horizontal lines would be nearly impossible


----------



## m0uz

Also available on eBay UK for £27.99

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/282241761647?hash=item41b6eb816f:g:FHYAAOSwx2dYGa3k


----------



## Johan450

Ino, does this mouse use the same feet/skates as the g pro?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> Ino, does this mouse use the same feet/skates as the g pro?


Yes


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> On topic of angle snapping:
> 
> 
> 
> will have to zoom in
> It's not angle snapping, it's just the regular Avago/Pixart way. The only sensor I know that behaves differently is MLT04 which allows for (x,y) changes of (1,1) instead of the Avago/Pixart way of (1,0);(0,1)


That picture confuses me. It almost looks like they both have angle snapping to me because even on the G Pro some of the spirals look like rounded squares.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Have I missed the overview of the g102? Did some of the experienced members covered the mouse? Whats the consensus.. g pro with 33xx(?) sensor 10M switches and rubber cable? Missed anything? Kinda want to grab it off of ebay for 30-ish €







Cheers!


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Have I missed the overview of the g102? Did some of the experienced members covered the mouse? Whats the consensus.. g pro with 33xx(?) sensor 10M switches and rubber cable? Missed anything? Kinda want to grab it off of ebay for 30-ish €
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Its a GPro with a new sensor from a company other than pixart. The sensor seems to be pretty good, but hasn't really been extremely thoroughly tested. In fact does anyone even know the frame rate for this sensor yet?


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That picture confuses me. It almost looks like they both have angle snapping to me because even on the G Pro some of the spirals look like rounded squares.


and that's why the circle test is bad


----------



## racer11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k Is this legit? There are G302 pictures on the bottom of the page ...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> and that's why the circle test is bad


´Just humans being humans.

People still havent tried to point out which is which on mine though. http://www.overclock.net/t/1612080/logitech-g102-prodigy/410#post_25626120


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> ´Just humans being humans.
> 
> People still havent tried to point out which is which on mine though. http://www.overclock.net/t/1612080/logitech-g102-prodigy/410#post_25626120


The bottom one on the loops, but only because there are a couple things that look like slight jitter to me.

Edit: Woops meant the top was the G403 and the bottom was the g102.


----------



## Melan

Oh, I wanna try too!

Umm... Lines 2, 5, 6 and 10.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Edit: Woops meant the top was the G403 and the bottom was the g102.


That is correct, have a virtual cookie.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Oh, I wanna try too!
> 
> Umm... Lines 2, 5, 6 and 10.


----------



## Melan

Damn it RNGesus. You've failed me once again.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> On topic of angle snapping:
> 
> 
> 
> will have to zoom in
> It's not angle snapping, it's just the regular Avago/Pixart way. The only sensor I know that behaves differently is MLT04 which allows for (x,y) changes of (1,1) instead of the Avago/Pixart way of (1,0);(0,1)


regular avago/pixrate way?
Mercury sensor is a kind of a/p sensor?


----------



## wareya

It means that it's doing something that's ordinary to mouse sensors, not that it's doing something special to a/p sensors.

a/p sensors are the only modern sensors that anyone takes seriously (aside from this newcomer)


----------



## MFlow

I see the two pictures above, and the straight line on a g102 looks splashed.

What i said is not perfect angle snapping
The software does not support angle snapping, but instead has tuned the angle snapping within the sensor itself, makes g1 feel a bit and tunes the snapping in the sensor.
G1 was quite popular in Asia.
It is also good to keep the line when playing a game, A/P sensor's regular way?
Well i don't know.


----------



## wareya

There's no angle snapping. The straight lines do not have the properties of straight lines from mice with real angle snapping.


----------



## Bucake

all you can really do is compare, like Ino did. if you consider that to be angle snapping, i challenge thee to find a mouse that has noticeably less of it.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> regular avago/pixrate way?
> Mercury sensor is a kind of a/p sensor?


He explained it in that very post, with regards to X and Y direction changes.

Language barrier aside, you seem to be adamant about the angle snapping. If there's something notable for angle snapping then I'd say show it, otherwise you're kind of pushing something that doesn't seem to be there.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> He explained it in that very post, with regards to X and Y direction changes.
> 
> Language barrier aside, you seem to be adamant about the angle snapping. If there's something notable for angle snapping then I'd say show it, otherwise you're kind of pushing something that doesn't seem to be there.


In the Gaming Gear Forum, which has 50,000 members in Korea, g102 sensors have caused controversy about the difference between smoothing and angle snap.
Good. People say that smoothing and angle snap are different.
Can you show me the difference?
Explain that I understand.
Thousands of people in Korea buy 102 , and many people say that they feel good when they keep their aime.
Even with zero smoothing technology.
How can you be sure that the horizon is drawn with respects to the X and Y direction changes?
I want know.

And why not put an angle snap on / off in the software on logitech which likes angle snap function.


----------



## Tonymalony

Hey, I would like to know if the m1/2 and mousewheel clicks feel the same as the G pro? Are they just as light, or are the clicks more comparable to the G100s?


----------



## MFlow

I want to know the standard of the angle snap sensor.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tonymalony*
> 
> Hey, I would like to know if the m1/2 and mousewheel clicks feel the same as the G pro? Are they just as light, or are the clicks more comparable to the G100s?


m1/m2 and wheel button lighter than g pro but side button is same with g pro


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> In the Gaming Gear Forum, which has 50,000 members in Korea, g102 sensors have caused controversy about the difference between smoothing and angle snap.
> Good. People say that smoothing and angle snap are different.
> Can you show me the difference?
> Explain that I understand.
> Thousands of people in Korea buy 102 , and many people say that they feel good when they keep their aime.
> Even with zero smoothing technology.
> How can you be sure that the horizon is drawn with respects to the X and Y direction changes?
> I want know.
> 
> And why not put an angle snap on / off in the software on logitech which likes angle snap function.


Smoothing is some type of averaging over either frames of the sensor or usb reports which causes older information to be included in newer reports. Angle snapping is ignoring small motions around a vertical or horizontal line and is usually done within a certain number of degrees. Here is an example for angle snapping off vs on on the G303. TBH, its extremely hard for me to tell the difference on anything except the straight lines and there long lines are just much straighter even just doing random swipes.


----------



## jaffa2843

Is the G102's middle click identical to the Pro's? The Pro's middle click is horrible. Instant no-buy, coz of that.


----------



## MFlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Is the G102's middle click identical to the Pro's? The Pro's middle click is horrible. Instant no-buy, coz of that.


m1/m2 and wheel button weaker than g pro.


----------



## Klopfer

I hope "someone" here will do a Review soon ...


----------



## ApolloFiery

Hi, I just ordered one from Ebay and it says I should receive it in 3-5 days.
I am more worried about the sensor, I already have a G502 but it is too heavy for Counter Strike. The G Pro here in Australia is $100 while the G102 is only $40, I hope it isn't a significant downgrade from the G Pro. If it has better sensor performance than Zowie mice then I'm happy.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Yeah as soon as I see a positive quality review of the g102 im gonna get it for 30€


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Yeah as soon as I see a positive quality review of the g102 im gonna get it for 30€


Then you will STILL go into the Logitech Lottery of misery, in which 9 times out of 10 you will get an abortion in quality.

Welcome to Logitech 2016








.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Then you will STILL go into the Logitech Lottery of misery, in which 9 times out of 10 you will get an abortion in quality.
> 
> Welcome to Logitech 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


So you own 10 g pro's/ g403's and only 1 of them is good? Yeah I dont think so.. I bought 2 403's and while 1 had a rattling scrool the other 1 is perfect.. Then again even if its a dud its still "only" 30€ and I can sell it for that locally just because it will probably be the only mouse in my country


----------



## racer11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> So you own 10 g pro's/ g403's and only 1 of them is good? Yeah I dont think so.. I bought 2 403's and while 1 had a rattling scrool the other 1 is perfect.. Then again even if its a dud its still "only" 30€ and I can sell it for that locally just because it will probably be the only mouse in my country


You won't be the only one with the mouse, assuming SI in your name stands for Slovenia.







I bought one already, should be here next week.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MFlow*
> 
> In the Gaming Gear Forum, which has 50,000 members in Korea, g102 sensors have caused controversy about the difference between smoothing and angle snap.
> Good. People say that smoothing and angle snap are different.
> Can you show me the difference?
> Explain that I understand.
> Thousands of people in Korea buy 102 , and many people say that they feel good when they keep their aime.
> Even with zero smoothing technology.
> How can you be sure that the horizon is drawn with respects to the X and Y direction changes?
> I want know.
> 
> And why not put an angle snap on / off in the software on logitech which likes angle snap function.


I don't discount the potential for group minded misinformation. After all, r0ach was someone to listen to on this subforum (and others) for years.

The difference was already shown in a few pictures here. The straight line test probably shows it best. Specifically looking at the ON version with the horizontal lines. a straight path is held for noticeably longer.

Angle snapping function is normally available on certain sensors in the software. If it isn't in this one then there probably isn't at all.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *racer11*
> 
> You won't be the only one with the mouse, assuming SI in your name stands for Slovenia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought one already, should be here next week.


Damn you beat it to me then







Be sure to let us know how it is when you receive it. I presume you bought it from german ebay right?


----------



## chr1spe

Hm, well there is one on US ebay now for 35.99$ buy it now with free shipping, but it ships from Korea and they don't have the white version. Do I wait for the white version to show up on ebay or just get one now.


----------



## SpirosKGR

Guys is this legit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k ? Thanks


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpirosKGR*
> 
> Guys is this legit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k ? Thanks


That's clearly a G Pro picture for a G102 mouse sale. I'd be leary to buy from someone misleading like that.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> That's clearly a G Pro picture for a G102 mouse sale. I'd be leary to buy from someone misleading like that.


It's not a pic of a G Pro. No braided cable. However, whoever made that listing is clearly blind.


----------



## racer11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Damn you beat it to me then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to let us know how it is when you receive it. I presume you bought it from german ebay right?


yeah, german ebay


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> So you own 10 g pro's/ g403's and only 1 of them is good? Yeah I dont think so..


Geez sunshine who wants to buy 10 of G Pro's so you could find one that works 100%?

Bought the G403 nothing spectacular here but the scroll wheel is problematic.

Waiting for the G Pro to arrive after paying for it so that will be another encounter with Logitech's so-called non-quality standard. Like you I am slow and ignorant hence I shall still keep buying their gear simply because I despise Razer so much more.

Although I now think that Razer may of picked up their quality in respect to Logitech, which still thinks that they rule the input world. Arrogance such as that always breeds a whole line of low status refuse, destined for land-fills worldwide.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SpirosKGR*
> 
> Guys is this legit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k ? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> That's clearly a G Pro picture for a G102 mouse sale. I'd be leary to buy from someone misleading like that.
Click to expand...

Laziness is the key feature of Sellers on Flebay.

They are all too ignorant of what they are selling but they know there is a market of willing buyers wanting it. Hence post up anything for the sale. If this isn't a G102 then watch Paypal get swamped with claims.


----------



## tunelover

i found this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-GAMING-MOUSE-Wired-6000DPI-USB-/401220946617?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I have a white one coming in the mail. It'll take a long time since I chose the cheapest shipping option.


----------



## ApolloFiery

I live in Sydney and I bought one in my city: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/282241761646
It should come in a couple of days. This seller has the correct images (non braided cable) and not some G Pro/G303.
I still couldn't find the specifics of this sensor, is it the PMW 3330? Is it significantly inferior to the 3366?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApolloFiery*
> 
> I still couldn't find the specifics of this sensor, is it the PMW 3330? Is it significantly inferior to the 3366?


The sensor was not made by Pixart.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ApolloFiery*
> 
> I still couldn't find the specifics of this sensor, is it the PMW 3330? Is it significantly inferior to the 3366?
> 
> 
> 
> The sensor was not made by Pixart.
Click to expand...

It could actually be some 3050 version which are so cheap in many non-descript mice coming out of China.

Because it's so dirt cheap, charging anything above $45.00AUD is pure greed on Logitech. Many mice coming out of China can be bought for $9.00 or less using the same type of sensor.


----------



## ApolloFiery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> It could actually be some 3050 version which are so cheap in many non-descript mice coming out of China.
> 
> Because it's so dirt cheap, charging anything above $45.00AUD is pure greed on Logitech. Many mice coming out of China can be bought for $9.00 or less using the same type of sensor.


Logitech claim it is an entirely new sensor from USA/Switzerland based on the translation, the 3330 is a very recent sensor though not sure.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> It could actually be some 3050 version


Just said it wasn't a Pixart product.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Just said it wasn't a Pixart product.


Starting post needs to be updated i guess, OP is always to be blamed.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Starting post needs to be updated i guess, OP is always to be blamed.


if someone else can do it. If it isn't possible, then someone need to create a new thread, with all the proper info and stuffs.
OP is almost non-existent, 14 posts... doubt he will come back anytime soon


----------



## dakuzo

My G102 came in today.


Left-click requires more force than the right-click.
Middle-click is lighter than my G Pro.
Rubber cable is softer and more flexible than the G Pro braided cable.


----------



## ApolloFiery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> My G102 came in today.
> 
> 
> Left-click requires more force than the right-click.
> Middle-click is lighter than my G Pro.
> Rubber cable is softer and more flexible than the G Pro braided cable.


How is the sensor performance?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApolloFiery*
> 
> How is the sensor performance?


For my purposes the sensor performs fine. I'm not as analytical as some members here, but if the G102 and the G Pro both came out at the same time I would just buy the G102 since it is the more affordable option that does everything I need/expect at 800 dpi.


----------



## exitone

When will we get a comparison between the g102 sensor and the 3360 and the 3310? If it's more responsive than the 3310 and comparable to the 3360, I might as well get it instead of waiting for the 3366 version which may have just been to hype.


----------



## Bucake

i think you can expect this to be more responsive than the 3310. it probably has no smoothing at all, or otherwise a non-perceivable amount like the 3366 or MLT04.
and i think people will start receiving their G102 mice soon in europe and america

the 3366 version is called the G Pro, it's been out for a while


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i think you can expect this to be more responsive than the 3310. it probably has no smoothing at all, or otherwise a non-perceivable amount like the 3366 or MLT04.
> and people should probably start receiving their G102 mice soon in europe and america
> 
> the 3366 version is called the G Pro, it's been out for a while


Why couldn't Logitech just release the G102 and g403 then, skipping the gpro? 3366 hype? I want to buy a g102 but i expect it to be the best sensor out there so i don't need to replace if im happy with the shape.


----------



## Bucake

well that new mercury sensor they're using in the g102 is probably their new budget sensor. for most of us it's certainly good enough, but spec-wise it seems inferior to the 3366 (max cpi)

even if "we" would find that it has improvements over the 3366, the on-the-box specs are what's important for sales. 12k cpi just sells better than 6k, you know

and obviously there aren't really any big improvements that it could even have over the 3366. maybe more fps steps (i think the 3366 has 3?), maybe higher maximum fps, maybe just a slightly "better feel" (it's a non-pixart sensor after all).
tbh i doubt it can blow anyone's mind if they've already used the 336x.
but the opinions of this new sensor do make it sound like the 3366 isn't really worth the money anymore, at least if you're using low cpi


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> well that new mercury sensor they're using in the g102 is probably their new budget sensor. for most of us it's certainly good enough, but spec-wise it seems inferior to the 3366 (max cpi)
> 
> even if "we" would find that it has improvements over the 3366, the on-the-box specs are what's important for sales. 12k cpi just sells better than 6k, you know
> 
> and obviously there aren't really any big improvements that it could even have over the 3366. maybe more fps steps (i think the 3366 has 3?), maybe higher maximum fps, maybe just a slightly "better feel" (it's a non-pixart sensor after all).
> tbh i doubt it can blow anyone's mind if they've already used the 336x.
> but the opinions of this new sensor do make it sound like the 3366 isn't really worth the money anymore, at least if you're using low cpi


Yeah, I won't be able to live with a g102 if it's inferior. What has this forum done to me?

I thought the 3090 was ok until I tried the 3360 then the 3090 feels like garbage.


----------



## ApolloFiery

If its better than the 3310 then I am fine with that.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApolloFiery*
> 
> If its better than the 3310 then I am fine with that.


Yeah, as long as there is negligible smoothing, its all g. 3310 was ok but heard bad things about the smoothing and bugs.


----------



## syrell

I like the 3310! never experienced problems with it using the inside a zowie


----------



## JackCY

So a normal cable and cheaper sensor is all the difference for G102?
If only it was available and hopefully won't cost insanely as much as the G Pro does right now in Europe.


----------



## Bucake

cable is probably still logitech-stiff. the texture is also different, G Pro uses some coating on the buttons and the "knuckle rest" while the G102 does not.
ebay.de sells the black version i think


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> So a normal cable and cheaper sensor is all the difference for G102?
> If only it was available and hopefully won't cost insanely as much as the G Pro does right now in Europe.


You can probably already buy them from ebay. Only black though.


----------



## JackCY

I found only one seller on ebay.de, not Logitech related. Another on ebay.com from France.
Don't want a white one, had a whiteish mouse once for a while and it can be distracting, function > form for me.
Has the specific been confirmed? Sensor? 3330 or something instead of the 3360 in Gpro/G403? Gpro has the top plastic parts coated? Really? Never looks that way in pictures, didn't see it noticed in reviews either, did anyone test it with a nail at least if the coating even lasts?
I'm fine with matte plastic even polished plastic, coatings always die and then I have to polish the mouse myself. There are only so few materials and "paints" that survive the abuse of sweaty hands long term.

Can't find info on Logitech webpage either, only on some strange localizations but not English or German nor local language. So weird Logitech doesn't even have them on their website yet it's already being sold on ebay, I guess they imported a few boxes from Asia.
Did Logitech give a guide for pricing? Any retail stores actually selling the G102 anywhere? Or is it just these leaks from Asia?

Or is Logitech being ... and they are only releasing the G102 in certain markets, the markets where the insane price of Gpro simply doesn't fly? Such as Asia, etc.?

I would be happy to give it a try if the price is as low as so far suggested, which is half of what Gpro costs and only a little more than what decent mice used to cost back in the day before all this crazy price hiking due to gaming madness. But considering the amount of returns due to faulty or poor product design I do want to have the 2 week no questions asked option I get from EU retail store.


----------



## qsxcv

just got mine.

probably the best cable logitech's ever used. not as good as stripped deathadder cable, but whatever.

surface feels like uncoated abs. let's see how durable it is. if it is uncoated abs, it will probably be polished/shiny in a few months in the areas of contact

sensor has a tiny tiny bit of angle snapping. i don't notice it except in mspaint. actually i'm not even sure. could just be bias from seeing the discussion about it

top is g100s,500dpi
bottom is g102,400dpi


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> just got mine.
> 
> probably the best cable logitech's ever used. not as good as stripped deathadder cable, but whatever.
> 
> surface feels like uncoated abs. let's see how durable it is. if it is uncoated abs, it will probably be polished/shiny in a few months in the areas of contact
> 
> sensor has a tiny bit of angle snapping. i don't notice it except in mspaint.


How is the surface?

Is it smooth or coarse?

Lots of variations in the G Pro recently (the finish changed)

They may or may not have the same shell

The new cable on the G Pro is great as well! (Recently posted it along with a picture showing the difference and multiple users claiming the same)


----------



## qsxcv

top and buttons mostly smooth
sides slgihtly coarse

wait what? g pro has a new cable?


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-PRODIGY-Optical-Customizing-International-Version/dp/B01MG8LDVN/ref=zg_bsnr_402052011_26?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MTTN5P4XB0KAF3NG5V30

Hmm? Does anyone own this that can comment on the texture of the mouse?


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> top and buttons mostly smooth
> sides slgihtly coarse
> 
> wait what? g pro has a new cable?


The shells of the NEW g pro and the shells of the 102 are the same.

Interesting.

The G pro models 1637 and below don't have the coarse finish where the fingers sit. However, the the 1638 and 1639 do.

Case solved.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1615651/logitech-g-pro-changes

https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/5c5wn1/logitech_pro_g_changes/


----------



## qsxcv

this is my g102



don't have gpro for comparison; it's at my office.


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is my g102
> 
> 
> 
> don't have gpro for comparison; it's at my office.


Great photo, I can see the coarseness of the sides very well. Yes that is identical to my g pro 1638 model.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1615651/logitech-g-pro-changes

I don't like the 1638 as much because the texture feels much worse to control... especially in the back where my band touches the mouse

The 1628 hand comfort felt was great! The 1638 feels as though it could be upgraded... I cannot get comfy.

Place my hand back on the 1628, boom. Perfect


----------



## qsxcv

for reference my g102's SN is 1638...


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for reference my g102's SN is 1638...


Thank you. This explains so much haha


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is my g102
> 
> 
> 
> don't have gpro for comparison; it's at my office.


The coating looks identical to my old G Pro with a S/N of 1628.


----------



## wareya

Not shipped from amazon, not worth the platform markup.

In other words it's not actually released in the west yet.


----------



## Klopfer

if i looked at the official prices ... the g102 must be ~2.7x cheaper then the G 403 wired ...
so that on amazon is really expensive








wanna try one , but it isnt on the .de webpage









G102 RM 119.00
G403 RM 319.00
....


----------



## DrunkOnLiquor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argowashi*
> 
> The coating looks identical to my old G Pro with a S/N of 1628.


Yes they are very similar.

Why is the 1628 now your old g pro?

If you zoom in very closely on his picture of the g102 you can see the rigid bumps.

Here is the cord thickness differences

Left New | Right Old


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrunkOnLiquor*
> 
> Yes they are very similar.
> 
> Why is the 1628 now your old g pro?
> 
> If you zoom in very closely on his picture of the g102 you can see the rigid bumps.
> 
> Here is the cord thickness differences
> 
> Left New | Right Old


Could have at least given me credit for my pictures...


----------



## Tyler Dalton

BTW Here is the best I can do showing the difference in texture. First image is the 1639, second is the 1628.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

In hindsight I wish I didn't buy the G Pro and instead waited and bought the G102. It's the same shape that I dislike but I'm willing to subject myself to it if it's a new sensor.

Now with newer batch numbers having improved build quality I feel like I want to smash the G Pro I own. Well I did, until I had the pleasure of using the Razer Tron.

I mean I think the G Pro sucks....but nothing. *Nothing*. _*nnnnoooooootttthhhhhhhiiinnnggggg*_ is as bad as the Razer Tron mouse is.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> In hindsight I wish I didn't buy the G Pro and instead waited and bought the G102. It's the same shape that I dislike but I'm willing to subject myself to it if it's a new sensor.
> 
> Now with newer batch numbers having improved build quality I feel like I want to smash the G Pro I own. Well I did, until I had the pleasure of using the Razer Tron.
> 
> I mean I think the G Pro sucks....but nothing. *Nothing*. _*nnnnoooooootttthhhhhhhiiinnnggggg*_ is as bad as the Razer Tron mouse is.


Not sure if everything is improved build quality. I prefer the shell and texture from the older G Pro, I also prefer the more tactile clicks from the older G Pro. What I ended up doing actually is just swapping the cables and the upper shell. I swapped the upper shell as for some reason it felt better with the buttons on the older G Pro. So basically I have a franken-Pro now. Also the G Pro's clicks are rated to 20M while the G102 is only using 10M ones. I'm also not sure where you are from, but I still don't know if the G102 is going to be officially released in the US. Even if you got one imported, you wouldn't have any warranty support for it.


----------



## Luminair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> BTW Here is the best I can do showing the difference in texture. First image is the 1639, second is the 1628.


That's definitely different, but I wonder if anyone will find out from Logitech if it's a difference that matters. It could be that they responded to complaints and improved the surface for performance reasons, but it's just as likely that they're only cutting costs or using a different machine.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I already have a white G102 coming through the mail. I even have prepared a white colored cable for it. $50 in all. As for the 20m,10m stuff. I'm fine with that.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Even though bottom feeder Chinese brands are putting 50m rated Omron's in their mice now lol logitech


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luminair*
> 
> That's definitely different, but I wonder if anyone will find out from Logitech if it's a difference that matters. It could be that they responded to complaints and improved the surface for performance reasons, but it's just as likely that they're only cutting costs or using a different machine.


No idea, I remember when they changed the coating on the G500 without saying anything in the past. For me the smoother coating is better for sweater hands and the rougher texture better for dry hands. The rougher texture feels better until I play a few rounds then it starts to slide where the smoother texture sticks like glue.


----------



## AssToast

G102s are going for RM88 online in Malaysia which is like $20.


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I already have a white G102 coming through the mail. I even have prepared a white colored cable for it. $50 in all. As for the 20m,10m stuff. I'm fine with that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Even though bottom feeder Chinese brands are putting 50m rated Omron's in their mice now lol logitech


Actually lots of people do not care about fancy number of how durable the switch is but how does it feel, i see some even prefer the 5m switch to 20m one


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ND9512*
> 
> Actually lots of people do not care about fancy number of how durable the switch is but how does it feel, i see some even prefer the 5m switch to 20m one


Omron has loose tolerances anyway. You can pull good 5m's out of a box of them just as easy as 10m,20m,50m. The higher rated ones _tend_ to have less variance.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Got a 10€ coupon for ebay so my g102 is on its way for 23€


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I already have a white G102 coming through the mail. I even have prepared a white colored cable for it. $50 in all. As for the 20m,10m stuff. I'm fine with that.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Even though bottom feeder Chinese brands are putting 50m rated Omron's in their mice now lol logitech


In my mind, it was like this in the beginning

"Hey, workers! How can we make more money?"
"Sir, If majority of people is fine with changing phone with not so much difference every 2 years, why not $20-50 mouse as well. I'm pretty sure majority of them don't have soldering iron"
"Holy moly, son! You are promoted. Now peeps, hand me the design within 24 hours."

Later on...
"My god! You even made it into 1 year durability."


----------



## wareya

And that's why we need to get to a point where sensor / "implementation" quality is a complete and utter non-factor in deciding what mouse to buy, so they can stop doing that.


----------



## syrell

tme to get own soldering skills!


----------



## wareya

Speaking of which where can I buy heavier switches


----------



## m0uz

Got my G102 not long ago. M1 feels good, M2 is a bit clacky, M3 is _a lot_ ligher than G Pro, encoder is a bit stiffer than G Pro, all other buttons feel the same as G Pro, side and top textures feel rougher than G Pro but might have something to do with the lack of coating. Very chuffed overall









Garbage mouse feet again, though


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is my g102
> 
> 
> 
> don't have gpro for comparison; it's at my office.


Is that a prototype one? I don't see a grey version offered anywhere.


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Is that a prototype one? I don't see a grey version offered anywhere.


It is white, and seem to be only available in china atm


----------



## chr1spe

That looks very grey to me. Idk if it is a different version, just a misleading picture, or the white version is actually grey.


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That looks very grey to me. Idk if it is a different version, just a misleading picture, or the white version is actually grey.


I guess because they don't use glossy plastic for the white version but i'm pretty sure by the color of the scroll and dpi button


----------



## ApolloFiery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That looks very grey to me. Idk if it is a different version, just a misleading picture, or the white version is actually grey.


It looks very white to me.


----------



## qsxcv

???it's white.....


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> That looks very grey to me. Idk if it is a different version, just a misleading picture, or the white version is actually grey.


Do you have any type of colour blindness?


----------



## Johan450

Probably just his monitor calibration. Looks very white on my phone and greyish second monitor


----------



## SmashTV

White on both my monitor and phone.


----------



## syrell

can sb give more information about sensor performance with mousetester prog


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Do you have any type of colour blindness?


No and on both of my monitors and my phone it looks like a light shade of grey and not really very white at all to me.

Paint gives me:



Which definitely seems like a shade of grey when I use the color picker tool. Obviously there are different shades in different places, but that one is about the average. I can definitely get darker and slightly lighter grey out of it.


----------



## trism

it looks white&gold to me.

wait no, its black&blue.


----------



## wareya

overclock discovers dynamic range


----------



## xlltt

Its white on my calibrated eizo coloredge , so its white


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> overclock discovers dynamic range


and white balance


----------



## m0uz

Why can't all ethnicities of mice live together in sweet harmony?


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> and white balance


and local ips dimming


----------



## Conceptx

Actually its rainbow colored on my monitor


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Actually its rainbow colored on my monitor


Do you suffer from photosensitive epilepsy at all?


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> In my mind, it was like this in the beginning
> 
> "Hey, workers! How can we make more money?"
> "Sir, If majority of people is fine with changing phone with not so much difference every 2 years, why not $20-50 mouse as well. I'm pretty sure majority of them don't have soldering iron"
> "Holy moly, son! You are promoted. Now peeps, hand me the design within 24 hours."
> 
> Later on...
> "My god! You even made it into 1 year durability."


Biodegradable plastic, dissolves under your hand with use.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Do you suffer from photosensitive epilepsy at all?


Yeah man, make it flicker as a GIF.

---

Which web sells the white version out of curiosity? When does Logitech plan to sell the G102 in Europe? So far only Asia imports have the G102.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Biodegradable plastic, dissolves under your hand with use.
> Yeah man, make it flicker as a GIF.
> 
> ---
> 
> Which web sells the white version out of curiosity? When does Logitech plan to sell the G102 in Europe? So far only Asia imports have the G102.


Officially only China.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Biodegradable plastic, dissolves under your hand with use.


Even better, edible top and bottom shell. Just in case, you need that extra energy to kill that bastard on the screen


----------



## qsxcv

o
m
g

not sure if troll


----------



## wareya

pure jest


----------



## qsxcv

uh what?
so opened it up.
left switch just says d2fc-f-7n
right switch says d2fc-f-7n (10m)

did i get one wtih a 5m left switch?


----------



## wareya

lol


----------



## qsxcv

at low speeds there are discrete steps. at high speeds eventually it gets to something above 10000fps. for now, i'm too lazy to figure out exactly

i was quite confused by the discrete steps, but here's a plausible explanation
it appears what is going on is that for moderate speeds, the framerate is continuously adjusted such that the amount of motion in a frame is nearly constant.

i suspect this is a very low power sensor which will eventually be used in a wireless mouse


----------



## wareya

>it appears what is going on is that for moderate speeds, the framerate is continuously adjusted such that the amount of motion in a frame is nearly constant.

If it's adjusting to an integer number of counts per frame, that reduces SRAV. That's genius.


----------



## qsxcv

wew
8MHz spi
finally out of the stone ages

@CPate
uhhhh
you gotta find someone who solders better than this...


----------



## wareya

Maybe the board failed QC because of the left mouse button so they just picked another one out of a bin and soldered it on by hand :^)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I was actually shocked that my FK Krait's soldering was cleaner than the work on my G Pro unit. I found even funnier when my FK Krait had loose plastic shaving inside the mouse.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wew
> 8MHz spi
> finally out of the stone ages
> 
> @CPate
> uhhhh
> you gotta find someone who solders better than this...


We Zowie now boiz


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

At least we aren't Flextronics. The sensor on my Habu(nib sealed) did not work because someone literally forgot to solder on the wiring for the sensor illumination. Now that's some next level incompetence.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> At least we aren't Flextronics. The sensor on my Habu(nib sealed) did not work because someone literally forgot to solder on the wiring for the sensor illumination. Now that's some next level incompetence.


I guess all that 'cut R&D to 1/3' is starting to take effect...


----------



## trism

Hows the lod of this sensor? Does it use SROM/similar or plain register sets?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Hows the lod of this sensor? Does it use SROM/similar or plain register sets?


Does not track after one CD with stock feet.

I believe it's adequate to most 'serious gamer' needs


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Oh dear god how did I miss that? What the hell. Why are 5M D2FC-7N's there? They should be 10m's.

I've never seen that before anywhere. Unreal.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Maybe the board failed QC because of the left mouse button so they just picked another one out of a bin and soldered it on by hand :^)


"Dammit random factory worker! This is not your personal war!"


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Oh dear god how did I miss that? What the hell. Why are 5M D2FC-7N's there? They should be 10m's.
> 
> I've never seen that before anywhere. Unreal.
> "Dammit random factory worker! This is not your personal war!"


Tell them to send you a new one and keep the original


----------



## JackCY

This is what happens when you order white clones from Asia


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Hows the lod of this sensor? Does it use SROM/similar or plain register sets?


will figure out
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Maybe the board failed QC because of the left mouse button so they just picked another one out of a bin and soldered it on by hand :^)


i think most of the larger through-hole components are always hand soldered for mice. you can always see a bit of flux residue.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> This is what happens when you order white clones from Asia


got it from logitech


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Chinese workers again turned a good idea into the trash as it was with the G303 lense? There really different lmb and rmb switches or this a joke?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> got it from logitech


Opened up my G102 I got from a taobao seller. Now, I feel fortunate to have both lmb/rmb be D2FC-7N(10M) switches.


----------



## cr0wnest

Wow I didnt realise the G102 had non-braided cables. Might pick one up from Taobao after all. And the price is really good! Much lower than I thought.

Also, not sure if its already mentioned. But Hotline Games have also released replacement mouse feet for the G102/G Pro https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=540857023200


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Opened up my G102 I got from a taobao seller. Now, I feel fortunate to have both lmb/rmb be D2FC-7N(10M) switches.


yea mine was just unlucky


----------



## wareya

Anyone think this is coming out soon or should I buy a used g303 in the meantime?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Anyone think this is coming out soon or should I buy a used g303 in the meantime?


I'm still not even sure this isn't going to be asia only.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> got it from logitech


They sell it already? Hell I could not even find an English description page for the G102.
Or is it prerelease prototype?

So what is the sensor and it's quality on the retail units?
Switches? "Some" Omrons assorted by random?
Cable? "Some" rubber better than the G Pro braided stiff one?


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> They sell it already? Hell I could not even find an English description page for the G102.
> Or is it prerelease prototype?
> 
> So what is the sensor and it's quality on the retail units?
> Switches?


See: http://www.overclock.net/t/1615853/g102-mercury-sensor-info

Also there's an english page but it's for the malay market.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> See: http://www.overclock.net/t/1615853/g102-mercury-sensor-info
> 
> Also there's an english page but it's for the malay market.


Seen and seen, thanks








Yeah Malay but not English nor German, only Malay in English. I can't even tell if they want to sell it outside Asia and at what price.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> This is what happens when you order white clones from Asia


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Seen and seen, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah Malay but not English nor German, only Malay in English. I can't even tell if they want to sell it outside Asia and at what price.


They probably won't sell it out of Asia because the G Pro price is too high by Asian standards. The g102 is 2.75x cheaper than the g403 wired in Asia, so there's that. Only us mouse fanatics and esports fanboys are willing to pay the $70 for the G Pro.


----------



## JackCY

I am not willing to pay the outrageous price for G Pro, there are many more markets beside Asia that do not have the purchase power of North America and western Europe. The G30x dropped to reasonable prices, yet they release newer mice at +50% mark up, Logitech is a joke when it comes to pricing.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I am not willing to pay the outrageous price for G Pro, there are many more markets beside Asia that do not have the purchase power of North America and western Europe. The G30x dropped to reasonable prices, yet they release newer mice at +50% mark up, Logitech is a joke when it comes to pricing.


Look at the gaming industry, people kept buying games that went up in price and now they're paying $80 just to play a CoD4 remake, the same is happening here in the mouse industry, just look at FM releasing an $80 mouse and people are buying it...I'm guilty of buying the new FM too...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I am not willing to pay the outrageous price for G Pro, there are many more markets beside Asia that do not have the purchase power of North America and western Europe. The G30x dropped to reasonable prices, yet they release newer mice at +50% mark up, Logitech is a joke when it comes to pricing.


Logitech is just playing the market, look at how expensive some products with much lower quality are.
General populace would deduct that the quality must be bad if the MRSP is low, also as long as products sell at that price why should they opt out of free money?

But I agree, it's always better to wait for the inevitable price drop. It's the early adopters that have to pay premium, as always.


----------



## exitone

My g102 white ended up only being $28usd shipped from taobao :]


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> My g102 white ended up only being $28usd shipped from taobao :]


Possible to purchase more?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Possible to purchase more?


I think for $40ish. Not sure if the shipping is still on sale.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> My g102 white ended up only being $28usd shipped from taobao :]


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> I think for $40ish. Not sure if the shipping is still on sale.


Link?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Link?


https://world.taobao.com/search/search.htm?_ksTS=1479106017967_40&spm=a21bp.7806943.20151106.1&_input_charset=utf-8&navigator=all&json=on&q=g102&callback=__jsonp_cb&cna=ziywEBLn%2FAkCAdzvKpcoZePE&abtest=_AB-LR517-LR854-LR895-PR517-PR854-PR895

I bought from a 159y listen that's not there anymore. Shipping/forwarding for me was half price as part of their 11.11 sale.


----------



## Woz_Ginge

Is this mouse worth it? I was thinking of getting the G Pro but its £70 and I'm not sure about the shape. I could try this for less than half the price and if I like the shape maybe upgrade later.

Whats the sensor like? I play QL.


----------



## xlltt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> Is this mouse worth it? I was thinking of getting the G Pro but its £70 and I'm not sure about the shape. I could try this for less than half the price and if I like the shape maybe upgrade later.
> 
> Whats the sensor like? I play QL.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1615853/g102-mercury-sensor-info sensor info by qsxcv


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I am not willing to pay the outrageous price for G Pro, there are many more markets beside Asia that do not have the purchase power of North America and western Europe. The G30x dropped to reasonable prices, yet they release newer mice at +50% mark up, Logitech is a joke when it comes to pricing.


Funny when two years ago on same forum people posted how they want 'no frills' mouse with premium price when all that G402 '3050' ****storm happend.

Now people say the price of G Pro is outrageous. Even the specs and form are best on the market.


----------



## Some Tech Nub

You can't please everyone :s


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Now people say the price of G Pro is outrageous. Even the specs and form are best on the market.


Probly because we just went through like three or four consecutive generations of overpriced mice


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







( ͝סּ ͜ʖ͡סּ)

So these things appeared today.

My white G102 also came with a logitech branded extended size mousepad. It has stitched edges and uhh the way it was packed it probably won't lie completely flat. Ever. I rolled it up in reverse for the time being. The surface is what I guess would be considered a "speed" type.

Thankfully Roccat has never put slogans on their mousepads and kept their cringe marketing slogans off the products themselves. Logitech ignoring any sense of taste has one on this mousepad. "Game with passion. Win with science." Just....lol









Oh by the way, the Harpoon is being returned after I'm done with it. Only bought it because I passed a place that had it this morning.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Funny when two years ago on same forum people posted how they want 'no frills' mouse with premium price when all that G402 '3050' ****storm happend.
> 
> Now people say the price of G Pro is outrageous. Even the specs and form are best on the market.


Most hilarious about it is that every more or less known mouse brand has similar prices, quite often offering much less.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Probly because we just went through like three or four consecutive generations of overpriced mice


I get a feeling that everything after IME/WMO/MX series epoch is overpriced. I still remember MX310 that costed me $20.


----------



## Shiotcrock

I'm skipping the entire generation of Logitech G mice they just look cheap starting with the Proteus being the granddaddy of them all just too skinny in design most of the G series mice are either too small or skinny except for the Chaos Specturm which is too wide in the back. If you think 139.00 is good for a piece of plastic no larger than your head good luck. The whole Logitech series just seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper made what people really want is the Logitech G9X which I never tried myself but they must of lost the molds for that mouse because they never made them again after the initial run or the people they had make the mouse in China are all grown up and the skill used to make the mouse is forgotten lore.


----------



## Neshy414

Riiiight... I mean preferences wary from person to person though it is pretty sad that there is only one shape out of the current line that kinda suits you, when smaller companies manage to provide more choice on a (i'd assume) much tighter budget.

Oh well, moving on. I'm hoping to get my hands on a white 102 if Logitech ever sells it in Germany, and then try to swap the internals with those of the G-Pro. Judging from the comments of the G102 sensor thread it should be an easy swap to make, right? Looks like the shells are essentially identical.

Oh and hi everyone, new here.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Most hilarious about it is that every more or less known mouse brand has similar prices, quite often offering much less.
> I get a feeling that everything after IME/WMO/MX series epoch is overpriced. I still remember MX310 that costed me $20.


Mice are overpriced at their MSRP. The only mice I've bought in the past year though are a 25$ g303 and an evga torq x5 which I forget how much I paid for, but it was under 30$ iirc. Not too bad if you ask me.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Scroll rattles, there is a slight scoff on the finish on the right mouse button. It's at the very front so it's not something I would ever see.

Dpi button doesn't make a horrible sound when pressed this time! Batch 1638.


----------



## qsxcv

wat?
because mine has the best logitech cable i've ever used...
g302's is way heavier and stiffer


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Thankfully Roccat has never put slogans on their mousepads and kept their cringe marketing slogans off the products themselves. Logitech ignoring any sense of taste has one on this mousepad. "Game with passion. Win with science." Just....lol


Let's face it, marketing from Logi is always been poor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat?
> because mine has the best logitech cable i've ever used...
> g302's is way heavier and stiffer


Can confirm, The cable of G102 is way better than G302
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Yeahhhhh this is just the G302 cable I never liked. Scroll rattles, there is a slight scoff on the finish on the right mouse button. It's at the very front so it's not something I would ever see.
> 
> Dpi button doesn't make a horrible sound when pressed this time! Batch 1638.


Wow *** Logitech.

MIne's 1640, it's pretty solid and seems to be free of any problems described on this for, G Pro or G102 variant


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

edit:


Spoiler: guess the cable if you're bored. Possible choices are G302, G100s, G102.







Okay, nevermind I clearly remember the G302 cable wrong. It's thick but inflexible as hell.

The G102's cable is thick but quite flexible. It's still not like the one I use on my G303 or the one I will use on the G102.

However, it is the best I can recall from a Logitech mouse recently. I have a debraided G Pro cable next to me and it's ass.

Right mouse button on G102 unit is sorta mushy. Why did things regress like this after the G303?

I wish I never bought the G Pro. Waste of time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat?
> because mine has the best logitech cable i've ever used...
> g302's is way heavier and stiffer


Yeah gonna snag the 302 cable out of my box of mouse cables to compare.


----------



## qsxcv

2 ez
left g100s, middle g302, right g102


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

ooooo almost right.

Left G100s Middle G102. Right G302.

The G102 cable is thicker than the G302's but ten times more flexible. ikr? Makes no sense but that's how it is


----------



## qsxcv

areyoufingserious

k i'm pulling out my g302 1 sec

forgot microusb cable at office so here's a picture of a picture


left stripped razer da cable (about same thickness as g100s stock cable)
middle g102
right g302

uaok idk what kind of garbage you got... but yea


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

alrighty then forgot to swap the wires on the power cable i was replacing it with. just saw smoke. mouse is fine though.


----------



## qsxcv

...
i bet you connected power and ground to the shield and ground pins


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Yeah everything that I could mess up I did this time around. Still worked out though. Put on a white cable for no real reason.



i'm kinda sad i didn't get someone to hand solder a 5m omron on the right button on my unit. Mine are 10m on both.









edit: Whoa, I just figured out what resembles the G102's cable. The Roccat Lua's cable.


----------



## qsxcv

where you get the white cable?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> edit: Whoa, I just figured out what resembles the G102's cable. The Roccat Lua's cable.


wait wat


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> where you get the white cable?


Took it off a Razer DB Plasma Solutions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> wait wat


Basically don't worry about the G102's cable. You will end up liking it.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Took it off a Razer DB Plasma Solutions.
> Basically don't worry about the G102's cable. You will end up liking it.


I mean why it's same as Lua? Logitech don't build mouse from their own factory anymore?


----------



## Bucake

haha, that mouse pad..
i should be getting mine soon, too


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

changed my mind and used a different cable. i'm now using the cable i took from the mad catz pro s. reason being that the cable underneath the braiding is white. it's also more flexible compared to the pro solutions cable.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> I mean why it's same as Lua? Logitech don't build mouse from their own factory anymore?


read uaok's post again. he said "resembles". not "is the same"


----------



## exitone

Wow with a free mousepad the g102 is a bargain lol


----------



## syrell

7 x G102 on sell on ebay germany for 29,99 €
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Maus-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/232131741012?hash=item360c214554:g:GrcAAOSw4GVYGa3k


----------



## SpirosKGR

Where can we find the mouse?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> 7 x G102 on sell on ebay germany for 29,99 €
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Maus-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/232131741012?hash=item360c214554:g:GrcAAOSw4GVYGa3k


Fake or legit?


----------



## MaTpr0F

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpirosKGR*
> 
> Where can we find the mouse?
> Fake or legit?


It's the same shop (assuming from the description) as the one in France (somehow the link does not work).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k#
I ordered one from the french guys, 100% original with Full box not just bulk package bubble warp like the other korean sellers.


----------



## wifihero

I bought the one on german ebay but considering the long delivery time I reckon it is coming straight from china. Hopefully it will arrive beginning of next week and this better not get stuck at customs.


----------



## raizing

the better half (who was recently in guangzhou) ordered one for me. arrived with a colossal overwatch mousepad, as well as a Logitech mouse bungee.


----------



## Sorcerer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Looks like I'm gonna have to buy the only one I can find one of these days to decide then, because like nobody has any information on this mouse, I can't find much about it on google, YT has no reviews, all the reviews I can find elsewhere have dead links and dead images


Actually i have 2 of the old EC2's, the battle proven black ones , and white.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











When i buy an EC2-A's id probably post the diffrence in a new thread or smth,
in fact i also want to know if EC2-A is worth buying than a g102 ? kinda curious about the new sensor performance since there's no G-Pro's here D:


----------



## mentos

Bought the mouse for RM60 / 14 USD. Will receive it in a few days.


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mentos*
> 
> Bought the mouse for RM60 / 14 USD. Will receive it in a few days.


Got it off taobao?


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( ͝סּ ͜ʖ͡סּ)
> 
> So these things appeared today.
> 
> My white G102 also came with a logitech branded extended size mousepad. It has stitched edges and uhh the way it was packed it probably won't lie completely flat. Ever. I rolled it up in reverse for the time being. The surface is what I guess would be considered a "speed" type.
> 
> Thankfully *Roccat has never put slogans on their mousepads* and kept their cringe marketing slogans off the products themselves. Logitech ignoring any sense of taste has one on this mousepad. "Game with passion. Win with science." Just....lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh by the way, the Harpoon is being returned after I'm done with it. Only bought it because I passed a place that had it this morning.


Hmmm... I don't know what to call this then, I call it the worse logo ever put on a mouse mat, thick rubber crap that makes me wish I never bought this garbage of a mouse pad.
Next time I'm really buying the cheapest mat with no logos that I can find that isn't QCK or anything shiny like Taito.


Can you take a few pictures of white G102 next to black G Pro? I don't care if they are already moded in some ways or not, cables or what ever.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I get a feeling that everything after IME/WMO/MX series epoch is overpriced. I still remember MX310 that costed me $20.


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> Got it off taobao?


Probably some local shop that sells in RM.
They are 169 CNY on TaoBao/TMall. +shipping +probable forwarding +customs/taxes/import duties


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Probably some local shop that sells in RM.
> They are 169 CNY on TaoBao/TMall. +shipping +probable forwarding +customs/taxes/import duties


Aka better off getting it from ebay?


----------



## mentos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> Got it off taobao?


nope. got it from lazada with a voucher code.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> Aka better off getting it from ebay?


That really depends where you are, there are plenty AU and SEA people around here who buy them from Asia or Asian eshops because they can as they will ship to them.
Even taobao can forward to "Taobao Global Consolidation and Shipping: USA,Canada, Australia,New Zealand,Singapore,Malaysia,Japan(new)" but that costs obviously. And if you are from EU or any other area that can't be forwarded to with taobao you have to use an agent to buy it for you from taobao and resend it and that is just plain not worth it. Might as well buy the black one from eBay in EU.


----------



## Bucake

opened mine just now.
- legit the best logitech cable i have ever used. not exaggerating, there is absolutely no contest.
- texture feels OK, but i can imagine it might not work well with sweatier hands. looks like it's plain textured ABS - no coating whatsoever. it's a budget mouse after all.
- M1 is stiffer than M2 for my unit. the clicks are not quite as nice as the G303, but they are significantly better than the G100s buttons.
- M3 is the best i've seen in a logitech mouse.
- not a fan of the shape of the wheel or bumps on the wheel, but the scrolling itself is the best i've ever seen in a logitech mouse. mechanical > optical imo.
- sensor feels great to me, it doesn't make me miss the 3366 one bit.

and yes.. there actually _is_ obvious angle snapping.
i wonder if the surface you're using it on might lessen or increase it - so far i've only used the mouse on fine acid-etched glass. might check it out on cloth and plastic to see if that changes things.

imo this absolutely crushes the G100s. if you like the G100s-like egg shape, i suggest you get this.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> mechanical > optical imo.


I agree so much


----------



## Woz_Ginge

Hi.

I'm in the UK and I want this mouse. There are a few sellers on ebay. One in China and one in Korea. I have emailed the Korean dude asking about delivery. Does anyone know of a seller with EU stock?

Thanks.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I'm in the UK and I want this mouse. There are a few sellers on ebay. One in China and one in Korea. I have emailed the Korean dude asking about delivery. Does anyone know of a seller with EU stock?
> 
> Thanks.


Dude, memoryking777 has 5 left









http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/282241761647?hash=item41b6eb816f:g:FHYAAOSwx2dYGa3k

I bought 2 of them


----------



## Woz_Ginge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Dude, memoryking777 has 5 left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/282241761647?hash=item41b6eb816f:g:FHYAAOSwx2dYGa3k
> 
> I bought 2 of them


I saw that but some of the negative reviews say they ship from China not Jersey. I may just take a chance and buy one before they all go.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I'm in the UK and I want this mouse. There are a few sellers on ebay. One in China and one in Korea. I have emailed the Korean dude asking about delivery. Does anyone know of a seller with EU sto
> I saw that but some of the negative reviews say they ship from China not Jersey. I may just take a chance and buy one before they all go.


So? If you go with the other sellers it'll be more expensive and it'll ship from China or Korea anyway and probably take 4 weeks to get to you. I got mine in 6 or 7 days.


----------



## Woz_Ginge

Ah so you ordered one and it arrived fine no custom charges?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> Ah so you ordered one and it arrived fine no custom charges?


Nope. Products that come from China, Korea and other Eastern countries don't seem to go through it or, at least, charge the receiver for it.


----------



## Kazee

is the angle snapping really that obvious?


----------



## qsxcv

not imo
it's sufficiently subtle that i second guess myself if i don't compare directly to another mouse

nothing like avago/pixart's sensors with angle snapping enabled. for those you can draw 20 perfectly straight lines in a row in paint.

i think it might not be something intentionally that's enabled or that's designed into the sensor but just a side effect of how the tracking works
edit: or maybe not. i just drew a perfectly straight line at 6000dpi. who knows.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think it might not be something intentionally that's enabled or that's designed into the sensor but just a side effect of how the tracking works
> edit: or maybe not. i just drew a perfectly straight line at 6000dpi. who knows.


At which speed though?


----------



## qsxcv

the same speed you would use for desktop work, if you were to use 6000dpi


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the same speed you would use for desktop work, if you were to use 6000dpi


I think its just the combination out of high cpi, low speed, and the way it works, i mentioned during test that it feels worse during low speeds than the Pro/403, couldnt pinpoint why though, its also a lot easier for me to draw straight lines at low speed, but as soon as i pick up the pace slightly that changes by a lot, i experience similar with other sensors as well though.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> not imo
> it's sufficiently subtle that i second guess myself if i don't compare directly to another mouse
> 
> nothing like avago/pixart's sensors with angle snapping enabled. for those you can draw 20 perfectly straight lines in a row in paint.
> 
> i think it might not be something intentionally that's enabled or that's designed into the sensor but just a side effect of how the tracking works
> edit: or maybe not. i just drew a perfectly straight line at 6000dpi. who knows.


Do you have a 3305 mouse that you can compare with in regards to angle snapping?


----------



## Woz_Ginge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Nope. Products that come from China, Korea and other Eastern countries don't seem to go through it or, at least, charge the receiver for it.


OK thanks, I ordered one. I messaged them and they said they ship from the UK but we will wait and see. Thanks for your help.


----------



## JackCY

Someone do a good thorough look at the angle snapping :/
Various speeds, surfaces. If at all possible.

I don't know how anyone can make a straight line with a mouse as I can never do that with my 450 cpi IME 3.0 MLT04. Slow, fast, Taito or QCK, don't matter, sure not a jittery line at that CPI but never straight due to how I mode the hand.

Too bad they didn't make the MLT04 800 CPI and 2.5m/s max speed, I would not use anything else for the next 50 years, it's only 10 now.


----------



## wareya

You could just stick two mlt04s in the same shell with a lil' usb hub in it. :^)


----------



## JackCY

Sadly I bought only one IME 3.0.








And while at 500Hz+ it's usable the low CPI is noticeable when playing a properly done game, the minimal turn angle is too coarse. Would have to lower ingame sens and use a huge table or something lol
It's ok, but when playing a long time I can notice it that I would like better finer control and a higher resolution screen. "Pixel hunting problems"









Also just asked Logitech if they will sell G102 in central Europe, will see if they ever reply


----------



## chr1spe

I wonder if there is any simple way to make something that will approximately test the amount of angle snapping. It would probably be quite difficult thought I guess. I can actually draw a straight line with most mice at low speed though. I think a bit higher dpi than 400 even helps a bit, but probably not 6000dpi. Considering this mouse appears to have slight jitter at 6000dpi it would seem odd not to get that in straight lines. Did any one actually translate that giant advertisement image. It looked like it said something about angle snapping from one of the images, but I don't know any languages.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> i mentioned during test that it feels worse during low speeds than the Pro/403, couldnt pinpoint why though, its also a lot easier for me to draw straight lines at low speed, but as soon as i pick up the pace slightly that changes by a lot, i experience similar with other sensors as well though.


i play on 30cm/360 so everything i experience is probably the low speed behavior
imo it's accurate but doesn't track as smoothly as 3366. which of course is directly related to the framerate and the inconsistent timing of the frames. but my perceptions could just be biased because i knew this beforehand from looking at mousetester.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> the way it works


yea
it shows nothing unusual in the "spiral" test

edit: wait maybe it looks a bit boxy for the slow speed? could be that the way the sensor works, there's more angle snapping at low speed

imo if one claims that compared to pixart/avago sensors, the mercury sensor has angle snapping, one would also claim that compared to mlt04, pixart/avago sensors have angle snapping
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Do you have a 3305 mouse that you can compare with in regards to angle snapping?


no. all i can say that it's far far less noticeable than e.g. 3090 with angle-snapping srom, 3366 with angle-snapping enabled, etc...


----------



## wareya

Looks like it just doesn't keep track of perpendicular subpixel movements that well at low speeds.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I don't know how anyone can make a straight line with a mouse as I can never do that with my 450 cpi IME 3.0 MLT04. Slow, fast, Taito or QCK, don't matter, sure not a jittery line at that CPI but never straight due to how I mode the hand.
> 
> Too bad they didn't make the MLT04 800 CPI and 2.5m/s max speed, I would not use anything else for the next 50 years, it's only 10 now.


That's because all avago/pixart sensors and the new mercury sensor only allow either x or y changes at very low speeds, i.e. when going diagonal they make two counts, (1,0) (0,1). Mlt04 allows for changes to both axis even at slow speeds, so it would go (1,1) directly. So for low speeds and very minimal changes on one axis that change might not show.

If you want to call that angle snapping be my guest, but to me it's a non issue as it has never been in the way of any deliberate movement I make.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's because all avago/pixart sensors and the new mercury sensor only allow either x or y changes at very low speeds, i.e. when going diagonal they make two counts, (1,0) (0,1). Mlt04 allows for changes to both axis even at slow speeds, so it would go (1,1) directly. So for low speeds and very minimal changes on one axis that change might not show.


that's unrelated to angle snapping. if anything, the way mlt04 achieves that would make it easier to draw straight lines
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Looks like it just doesn't keep track of perpendicular subpixel movements that well at low speeds.


perhaps. for very slow speed motion (a few pixels/second at 400dpi), am010 feels easier to control imo.


----------



## Alya

It still blows my mind how the MLT04 and VT5366 feel so different to every other sensor at low speeds, it must be placebo right? I'm relatively sure it's placebo, because at low speeds barring the 1 pixel deadzone on the MLT04, it feels much more natural to move diagonally and the cursor feels like it's going where I want, rather than in the general direction of where I want it to go whilst gliding on ice, it can't be because I like smoothing, as was talked about in the thread about the 3360/3366 feeling weird, because the MLT04 and VT5366 don't have smoothing.


----------



## qsxcv

how low speed do you mean?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> how low speed do you mean?


I mean considering the VT5366 can only move at about 1.7m/s-1.8m/s before it malfunctions and I play a "lower" sens of about 43.4cm/360, usually sub 1.5m/s.

EDIT: Recorded myself playing w/ in-game using MouseTester, most of my movements are at about ~0.75m/s


----------



## Skylit

I agree with Ino's conclusion. G102 is the best Logitech enthusiast mouse (IMO) considering asian pricing and what not. The only complaints would be subjective opinion of shape/buttons or what not.

Prob not released in western markets because it'll interfere with PRO pricing later down the road. Sucks, but there is ebay.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's because all avago/pixart sensors and the new mercury sensor only allow either x or y changes at very low speeds, i.e. when going diagonal they make two counts, (1,0) (0,1). Mlt04 allows for changes to both axis even at slow speeds, so it would go (1,1) directly. So for low speeds and very minimal changes on one axis that change might not show.
> 
> If you want to call that angle snapping be my guest, but to me it's a non issue as it has never been in the way of any deliberate movement I make.


No I'm just curious, looking for observation of those who own the G102. I've had no problem sensor wise with FK1+ I suppose 3310, at least not in the 2 weeks I had it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i play on 30cm/360 so everything i experience is probably the low speed behavior
> imo it's accurate but doesn't track as smoothly as 3366. which of course is directly related to the framerate and the inconsistent timing of the frames. but my perceptions could just be biased because i knew this beforehand from looking at mousetester.
> yea
> it shows nothing unusual in the "spiral" test
> 
> edit: wait maybe it looks a bit boxy for the slow speed? could be that the way the sensor works, there's more angle snapping at low speed
> 
> imo if one claims that compared to pixart/avago sensors, the mercury sensor has angle snapping, one would also claim that compared to mlt04, pixart/avago sensors have angle snapping
> no. all i can say that it's far far less noticeable than e.g. 3090 with angle-snapping srom, 3366 with angle-snapping enabled, etc...


IME 3.0 (1000Hz) on an old dirty QCK and crappy Taito:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





But it's in a Win10 MS Paint and I think MS messed it up, once one releases the button the line changes and gets thinner where it showed double thickness before. I don't think this was the behavior in original MS Paint and it is probably causing more "jitter" on the lines.

All is on a very old dirty tiny QCK, so much more control on it and no issues compared to the Taito I have that tends to be way too shiny for some mice and even the MLT04 can show weird glitches on it once in a while.


----------



## Bucake

i doubt this level of angle snapping would ever be an issue to anyone, although it does seem to be somewhat weirdly inconsistent.
earlier i mentioned that it's "obvious", but that was me actively test for it in Paint. it's not the kind of angle snapping where i want to move diagonally in-game but i end up moving only horizontally.

i can see why firm angle snapping would be a problem, but this is not firm angle snapping.
those asians who mentioned angle snapping probably just spotted it in Paint or on desktop like i did, and not while playing a first person 3D game.

in order words, if you're interested in the G102 but are scared of angle snapping, don't be.

the only thing i personally wish the mouse had, is coating on the buttons, sides and knuckle rest.
the texture it has feels fine for me atm, but it's gonna wear down relatively quickly and then it'll feel inconsistent and disgusting :-/


----------



## qsxcv

i wonder if the plastic will yellow like those old white wmo's


----------



## Bucake

definitely (assuming it is ABS), although maybe less so. it wouldn't surprise me if logitech has tried to find or (help) create ABS that's more resistant to aging.
nonetheless it'll most likely take a bunch of years before we can really say how resistant it is. i'll have a look in 3 years









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I agree so much


well, it's probably the case that nobody has really bothered to make a "better feeling" optical encoder. i've always assumed it should be perfectly possible to create an optical encoder that feels great.
the logitech ones have always been the same i believe, with the metal wire taking care of the steps / feedback. far from ideal with regards to feel.

a few old razer mice have a different optical design that feels a lot better than the one in logitech their mice (imo). i think zowie mice use this same design, although in those mice it feels bad. probably just cost reduction. (like how one mech encoder feels better than another mech encoder, even though the design is identical - ALPS vs clones for example.)


----------



## wareya

every optical encoder I've used glitches a lot, even new.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> every optical encoder I've used glitches a lot, even new.


Every optical encoder I've ever used scrolls before I get any tactile feedback at all, it happens all the time with my G100s and G400.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> every optical encoder I've used glitches a lot, even new.


yeah, so maybe optical just isn't ideal anyway. but i think with a good design for tactility, it could at least feel good.
i wonder why logitech has used optical for so long, i can't see any benefits. dirt can affect it just the same, maybe even easier.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Every optical encoder I've ever used scrolls before I get any tactile feedback at all, it happens all the time with my G100s and G400.


naturally. the issue is that it's inconsistent.

i guess one "issue" of mechanical is that wear can mess with it. optical doesn't really have this issue


----------



## wareya

I can actually repair and rebuild mechanical encoders but it's kind of a pain in the ass to do it and it damages the parts that you can't repair.


----------



## Bucake

yep. fortunately they are cheap to get though.
in fact i recently got 50 x 9mm alps encoders for $18 from aliexpress. there were even cheaper options, but since i didn't want to worry about import tax i insisted on staying below a certain cost

i've opened up literally only one mechanical encoder, and immediately knew i would never do it again







didn't even put it back together


----------



## HAGGARD

Optical encoders have no debounce/dejitter, so if you scroll fast all actuations register. But last I've seen, Logitech's mechanical encorders go down to ~2ms actuation frequency too, so at latest at that point I can't see that it would make any practical difference (and in general it would only be relevant for bunnyhop timings?).

Then there's lifetime, but as an enthusiast replacing a mechanical encoder should indeed pose no problem.

@G102: So click latency is on par with Logitech's recent releases, i. e. around 5ms? Has anybody done motion latency tests already?


----------



## qsxcv

the optical encoders in the mlt04 mice are perfect, in terms of having a consistent actuation point
unfortunately the tactile feel sucks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> @G102: So click latency is on par with Logitech's recent releases, i. e. around 5ms? Has anybody done motion latency tests already?


click latency is ~5ms in the air and ~1ms on the mousepad. yea go figure









motion latency i've been too lazy to test








i'll bring it to office tomorrow and compare vs g403


----------



## HAGGARD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the optical encoders in the mlt04 mice are perfect, in terms of having a consistent actuation point
> unfortunately the tactile feel sucks
> click latency is ~5ms in the air and ~1ms on the mousepad. yea go figure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> motion latency i've been too lazy to test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll bring it to office tomorrow and compare vs g403


And unfortunatelier, they randomly actuate sometimes. Then again, the OMB wheel is practically free-scrolling which I like in terms of tactility, and hardly ever actuates at random. I'm forced onto the IMO currently, and that wheel's tactility is a pest - way too rigid.

I never had problems with MX518/G400's wheel though. You just gotta commit to the scroll.









And I assume the lift latency has to do with power safe modes? Or with what wareya mentioned - they increase debounce intentionally when suspended so it doesn't actuate by itself when you set it down?

Looking forward to that comparison. Honestly looking to buy the 102 if I can get the white version without too much hassle. Have another OMB on the way, but the IMO made me realize that I want side-buttons.

Just curious: Did Logitech stick to their 1ms internal clock with this new sensor setup? I. e., can it report at rates beyond 1kHz over USB?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

turns out logitech's been doing the a4tech bloody lift off thing since 2014. Well, g502/g402 got it in a firmware update. G302,G303,G102,G403,G900, and the logitech pro plasma cutter mouse... i think that's it...

as to actual value on the pad? 1, 2, or 3ms. On liftoff 4, 5, or 6ms. I'll just consider it over 5ms, ignore the useless feature they added and move on.

So yeah when bump testing Logitech G mice from 2014-present never have the mouse facing the pad.


----------



## qsxcv

isn't the value on the pad more relevant though...


----------



## wareya

no because the liftoff detection might be buggy (especially depending on the sensor) and use the high latency value in rare situations while still on the pad

ofc mainstream companies don't have open source firmware and mouse firmware is so bad that you really can't assume it's doing the things it'd doing the right ways


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> no because the liftoff detection might be buggy (especially depending on the sensor) and use the high latency value in rare situations while still on the pad
> 
> ofc mainstream companies don't have open source firmware and mouse firmware is so bad that you really can't assume it's doing the things it'd doing the right ways


So because once in a while you MIGHT get a click with more latency you consider it the higher latency? That makes zero sense to me tbh. Until someone shows it doesn't work right the latency on the pad is far more relevant imo.


----------



## wareya

it's the same as how the da 3.5's latest firmware has a wildly varying click latency so people just record the highest one

tbh mouse manufacturers have no reason to use dynamic click latencies and there's a very real potential to cause a problem. for example my xornet 2 would sometimes boot up in a miscalibrated state, so random parts of my mousepad made it think it was lifted off. if it had such a dynamic click latency, it would be a problem there.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> it's the same as how the da 3.5's latest firmware has a wildly varying click latency so people just record the highest one
> 
> tbh mouse manufacturers have no reason to use dynamic click latencies and there's a very real potential to cause a problem. for example my xornet 2 would sometimes boot up in a miscalibrated state, so random parts of my mousepad made it think it was lifted off. if it had such a dynamic click latency, it would be a problem there.


I believe there is at least 1 type of debouncing algorithm that gives different delays depending on HOW the button was pressed.


----------



## wareya

the switches in mice have three states: fully retracted, somewhere in between, and fully pressed. they're supposed to gravitate towards fully retracted and fully pressed, but for a short period of time the mouse might be somewhere in between the two, and if the mouse is wired up for two states (most are) then the one of two ways it could be wired would affect whether it counts as actuated or not

afaik, the overwhelming majority of mice only wire up switches so that they get two states. taking advantage of three requires a smart firmware programmer, though it can be done.

you could also change the debounce period when the user is clicking a lot or not doing anything weird, but I would consider that a kind of dynamic button latency


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> it's the same as how the da 3.5's latest firmware has a wildly varying click latency so people just record the highest one
> 
> tbh mouse manufacturers have no reason to use dynamic click latencies and there's a very real potential to cause a problem. for example my xornet 2 would sometimes boot up in a miscalibrated state, so random parts of my mousepad made it think it was lifted off. if it had such a dynamic click latency, it would be a problem there.


I mean there are some reasons to use dynamic click latency. The final mouse slam clicking thing is probably not possible with logitech's setup while it may be if there were a single shorter debounce interval. Until someone shows there is a problem I will give logitech the benefit of the doubt since they seem fairly competent at least compared to their competitors. Given how long it took for people to even figure this out I doubt there will ever be much evidence of how well it works.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i doubt this level of angle snapping would ever be an issue to anyone, although it does seem to be somewhat weirdly inconsistent.
> earlier i mentioned that it's "obvious", but that was me actively test for it in Paint. it's not the kind of angle snapping where i want to move diagonally in-game but i end up moving only horizontally.
> 
> i can see why firm angle snapping would be a problem, but this is not firm angle snapping.
> those asians who mentioned angle snapping probably just spotted it in Paint or on desktop like i did, and not while playing a first person 3D game.
> 
> in order words, if you're interested in the G102 but are scared of angle snapping, don't be.
> 
> the only thing i personally wish the mouse had, is coating on the buttons, sides and knuckle rest.
> the texture it has feels fine for me atm, but it's gonna wear down relatively quickly and then it'll feel inconsistent and disgusting :-/


Ok, thanks, seems that way.
I don't want coating, it goes off in a year. A simple plastic with no coating has no changes beyond any matte surface getting more glossy.
I literally polished my IME3.0 when the paint was mostly gone from it, so it's pure black and not a black-gray-silver mess.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i wonder if the plastic will yellow like those old white wmo's


Most regular plastic does, especially under human hands and sun it's inevitable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Every optical encoder I've ever used scrolls before I get any tactile feedback at all, it happens all the time with my G100s and G400.


Yep. But that is something a properly done optical one can fix.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the optical encoders in the mlt04 mice are perfect, in terms of having a consistent actuation point
> unfortunately the tactile feel sucks
> click latency is ~5ms in the air and ~1ms on the mousepad. yea go figure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> motion latency i've been too lazy to test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll bring it to office tomorrow and compare vs g403


Awesome, compare compare.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> turns out logitech's been doing the a4tech bloody lift off thing since 2014. Well, g502/g402 got it in a firmware update. G302,G303,G102,G403,G900, and the logitech pro plasma cutter mouse... i think that's it...
> 
> as to actual value on the pad? 1, 2, or 3ms. On liftoff 4, 5, or 6ms. I'll just consider it over 5ms, ignore the useless feature they added and move on.
> 
> So yeah when bump testing Logitech G mice from 2014-present never have the mouse facing the pad.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So because once in a while you MIGHT get a click with more latency you consider it the higher latency? That makes zero sense to me tbh. Until someone shows it doesn't work right the latency on the pad is far more relevant imo.


Yes, worst case scenario. If they turn the mouse into "low power" state and the latencies go up because of it, it is a valid reason to report the highest ones. Even IME3.0 has some low power state when on pad and stationary, let alone mid air.
Unfortunately most mice have some kind of power saving state or what ever and switch in between. But FK1+ for example would wake PC up from sleep with movement, the sensor wasn't turned off, which was actually an annoying "feature". So Zowie might be keeping their mice in a single state, who knows... certainly not very power saving aggressive it seems.

I do agree that all of the regular mode power savings or what ever states should be gone and only PC asleep etc. states should be present. There is no need for savings with wired mice really. Sure on wireless, go ahead, riddle that thing with power saving nonsense.


----------



## chr1spe

To just call it the highest without at least noting it will be lower under normal use situations is completely disingenuous to me.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> To just call it the highest without at least noting it will be lower under normal use situations is completely disingenuous to me.




Then just use the results from Logitech testing rig with the G900's sensor on the mousepad.

Average: 4.36ms



Spoiler: teehee



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> New G303 Firmware, nothing changed.
> 
> Ikari Optical wins as usual.
> 
> *Events: 300
> Average: 4.3363ms
> Deviation: 0.603655ms
> *
> 
> g303.txt 3k .txt file
> 
> 
> Was surprised at how well I taped down the g303's pcb.






That result vs the Ikari Optical was when the sensor was facing up


----------



## patoux01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Average: 4.36ms
> [


That's wireless though.

And to the "lift-off can be wrong", if you sensor has lifted off, then you have no tracking, anyone reported that issue on Logitech mice before: that it simply doesn't track while on a mousepad?


----------



## granitov

Anyone tried fitting the wheel shaft into an Alps encoder yet? Does it fit?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i wonder if the plastic will yellow like those old white wmo's


Doubt the manufacturers haven't learned since those times. I would place the mouse farther from heat sources and/or smoke filled areas, though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patoux01*
> 
> And to the "lift-off can be wrong", if you sensor has lifted off, then you have no tracking, anyone reported that issue on Logitech mice before: that it simply doesn't track while on a mousepad?


Well, only the G032 and G402 would allow a nice high liftoff distance.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the optical encoders in the mlt04 mice are perfect, in terms of having a consistent actuation point
> unfortunately the tactile feel sucks
> click latency is ~5ms in the air and ~1ms on the mousepad. yea go figure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> motion latency i've been too lazy to test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll bring it to office tomorrow and compare vs g403


So that's where it's coming from? Damn... Because obviously all my test were in mid-air.


----------



## JackCY

We need a hover mouse, magnetic levitation, Logitech come on!








"Mid-air latencies matter."


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> OK thanks, I ordered one. I messaged them and they said they ship from the UK but we will wait and see. Thanks for your help.


Just found the packet mine arrived in. The "if undelivered" address is in Henleaze, Bristol


----------



## Kazee

can someone confirm if this mouse has angle snapping or not? I play FPS games and it is horrible if my mouse has angle snapping.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazee*
> 
> can someone confirm if this mouse has angle snapping or not? I play FPS games and it is horrible if my mouse has angle snapping.


Just tested it beside my G400s and it seems that there might be a miniscule amount of angle snapping. I mean a really, really, really, really, REALLY small amount. I never even noticed it before testing it. Very acute diagonal lines are still possible, though. It's not going to force your cursor into a straight line unless you're _wanting_ to move it in a straight, horizontal line.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Just tested it beside my G400s and it seems that there might be a miniscule amount of angle snapping. I mean a really, really, really, really, REALLY small amount. I never even noticed it before testing it. Very acute diagonal lines are still possible, though. It's not going to force your cursor into a straight line unless you're _wanting_ to move it in a straight, horizontal line.


Can you do a few a slow and fast lines in paint or other graphic app that has a pen tool with 1px width?
If you like do with G400s too so we can see and compare


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Can you do a few a slow and fast lines in paint or other graphic app that has a pen tool with 1px width?
> If you like do with G400s too so we can see and compare


From my view, the slow, diagonal lines from the G102 show that it may have a tiny bit of angle snapping. I think I'm just good at drawing horizontal lines


----------



## wifihero

OK I got the G102 today, played like 2 hours or so with it and must say I really really like it so far.

Some initial thoughts:

*Build / Shape*: Feels nice and solid. The Material is good although I prefer glossy coating due to my dry hands but this gives me a reasonably good grip. It fits my hand really well and I can kind of palm grip it. It is small and light and therefore very agile. In that respect very similar to a KPM but I'd prefer the G102 to a KPM due to the better position of my index and middle finger.

*Clicks:* LMB and RMB are just awesome, so far no complaints here. I am really impressed by how pronounced yet light they are. It feels super direct more so than on any other mouse I have used. No noticeable click latency for me. The clicks are just a delight.

*Sensor:* So far I'd say it feels quite nice at least at 400 dpi. Feels very responsive indeed. The LOD is nice and low. As far as angle snapping is concerned it is there. I can draw almost perfectly straight lines if I want to. It is not an issue tho, at least not for me. Not really noticeable in windows and ingame. At 400 dpi it doesn't bother me one bit. Out of curiosity, I tested it with a couple of other mice and it was all very comparable as far as I can tell. Maybe I am also just really good at drawing straight lines.There is also something I did not like, I tried to play a bit with 800 dpi and ingame sensitivity halved but that felt really weird.

I have a feeling this could become my daily driver and it is probably the best 30€ I spent on a mouse in years. Those are some very early thoughts and I may change my mind after some more testing. At first, I also liked the DM1 Pro S and thought I have my holy grail mouse only to realize after more testing that it is actually a terrible terrible mouse.


----------



## m4gg0t

I just ordered two from Korea, one for me to try and one for the gf. Hopefully they arrive in good condition. The Hotline G Pro feet should fit on the G102 right?


----------



## SpirosKGR

Has anyone here bought the Logitech G102 from ebay with its retail packaging? Retail box, not in a bag, bulk or custom packaging. Thanks in advance!


----------



## m4gg0t

I got mine from Korea as bulk as that's all i could find for Singapore


----------



## m4gg0t

How dose the mercury sensor compare to say 3310 or 3366?


----------



## MaTpr0F

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpirosKGR*
> 
> Has anyone here bought the Logitech G102 from ebay with its retail packaging? Retail box, not in a bag, bulk or custom packaging. Thanks in advance!


Yep.
I bought it form a french seller. It came in a retail box, with documentation, etc.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I just ordered two from Korea, one for me to try and one for the gf. Hopefully they arrive in good condition. The Hotline G Pro feet should fit on the G102 right?


Yeah it's the same mouse just with cheaper sensor for markets that won't shell out $100 for a mouse.

---

Why would you order it from Korea?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Yeah it's the same mouse just with cheaper sensor for markets that won't shell out $100 for a mouse.
> 
> ---
> 
> Why would you order it from Korea?


Coz fast & free shipping.


----------



## SpirosKGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaTpr0F*
> 
> Yep.
> I bought it form a french seller. It came in a retail box, with documentation, etc.


Did you buy it from here? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k#&rmvSB=true
Thanks


----------



## racer11

Got my g102 from german ebay today. It is great, I can't tell a differnce between g303 and g102 in terms of sensor responsiveness and the mouse is actually usable since it doesn't have a ****ty braided cable like other logitech mice. I guess they need to use those cables in eu/usa, because there an average consumer uses mice as christmas tree decoration.


----------



## m4gg0t

I'm actually trying to cancel my ebay order to get one from Taobao as it's hell of a lot cheaper and faster.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I'm actually trying to cancel my ebay order to get one from Taobao as it's hell of a lot cheaper and faster.


TaoBao forwards to Singapore I think, I've posted the possible destinations they support in a previous post. Unfortunately they don't forward to EU so for EU best bet is eBay or some other seller elsewhere. Plus YoyBuy is hell expensive with the shipping to EU and makes it not worth it for a cheap product such as a mouse.
Maybe some SG shops have it too, Malaysia I think has eshops that offer it, other countries in that region should too since it's a mouse targeted at SEA region.


----------



## m4gg0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> TaoBao forwards to Singapore I think, I've posted the possible destinations they support in a previous post. Unfortunately they don't forward to EU so for EU best bet is eBay or some other seller elsewhere. Plus YoyBuy is hell expensive with the shipping to EU and makes it not worth it for a cheap product such as a mouse.
> Maybe some SG shops have it too, Malaysia I think has eshops that offer it, other countries in that region should too since it's a mouse targeted at SEA region.


I using a local taobao forwarder, so it should be fairly easy to get it now.


----------



## MaTpr0F

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpirosKGR*
> 
> Did you buy it from here? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Mouse-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/172395522077?hash=item282392e81d:g:KLMAAOSwImRYGa3k#&rmvSB=true
> Thanks


Yes, I bought from that seller.


----------



## tjangel07

I love this mouse. I have 2 of them now with that glorious 2 year Logitech warranty


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> I love this mouse. I have 2 of them now with that glorious 2 year Logitech warranty


Doesn't the G102 only have a 1 year warranty?


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Doesn't the G102 only have a 1 year warranty?


http://support.logitech.com/en_in/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse

2 year limited warranty according to this and the store I bought it from.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> http://support.logitech.com/en_in/product/g102-prodigy-gaming-mouse
> 
> 2 year limited warranty according to this and the store I bought it from.


I stand corrected


----------



## Dreyka

G102 arrived. It's great. Scroll wheel has no side wobble and the force required to scroll between notches is good.

Really want a wireless G Pro now.


----------



## JackCY

Logitech doesn't comment one bit on where they plan to sell or presently sell their current products. Just brush off any inquiries with pre-made replies and forwarding to their beyond useless blog, newletter and such which have no information even on products already available. In other words they don't care to comment on where they sell or plan to sell the G102, nor do they care when customers want to buy it and ask lol Customer service, public relations beyond useless.

My bet is they will not bother to bring the G102 to all markets simply because they want to cash in on the G Pro where ever they can. Maybe in a year they could.


----------



## ReactiveZERO

Shame eBay doesn't have the white version from what I've searched. No white love for the EU


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Really want a wireless G Pro now.


Now _that_ would be the cherry on top of the cake


----------



## JackCY

Can't you simply convert USB to wireless and back with a generic wireless module? Hide it inside the mouse along with a small lipo battery. Done.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Can't you simply convert USB to wireless and back with a generic wireless module? Hide it inside the mouse along with a small lipo battery. Done.


Do they even make such a thing? Most USB devices are powered by the USB so that would work on extremely few devices.


----------



## JackCY

Yes there are all sorts of wireless personal devices and controllers, <10mA in operation and a small form factor. There also a thread around here with a custom made wireless mouse that uses some kind of device like that too.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Yes there are all sorts of wireless personal devices and controllers, <10mA in operation and a small form factor. There also a thread around here with a custom made wireless mouse that uses some kind of device like that too.


The only custom wireless mice I've seen were qsxcv's which used wifi adapters for teensy boards. Those do not just convert usb to wireless and require a teensy which has its own MCU and everything which he also used to do the functions of the mouse MCU. That requires a lot of know how. I thought you were saying something you could just plug a standard usb device in to and have it wireless transmit the things needed to and from the usb device. I've never seen anything like that, but I also haven't really looked.


----------



## Some Tech Nub

Perhaps someone could compare a wireless and wired G403 and see if they can hack together a wireless G Pro/G102? That would be an interesting project.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The only custom wireless mice I've seen were qsxcv's which used wifi adapters for teensy boards. Those do not just convert usb to wireless and require a teensy which has its own MCU and everything which he also used to do the functions of the mouse MCU. That requires a lot of know how. I thought you were saying something you could just plug a standard usb device in to and have it wireless transmit the things needed to and from the usb device. I've never seen anything like that, but I also haven't really looked.


I bet they do exist but not easy to find, possibly too large to insert into the mouse, kind of like USB flash memory sticks. There definitely are wireless USB hubs.
You could try ZigBee, XBee, but that's quite old tech dunno if there is something newer and plug and play. But that stuff is tiny and not hard for DIY.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Can't you simply convert USB to wireless and back with a generic wireless module? Hide it inside the mouse along with a small lipo battery. Done.


I'm pretty sure a generic wireless module would make a huge amount of input lag.


----------



## m4gg0t

My G102 should be arriving in a few days, can't wait to try it.


----------



## cnnd

Best low entry mouse right now?


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Best low entry mouse right now?


If you like the shape then definitely. I'm loving mine.


----------



## Ufasas

Can't wait to get from ebay uk, if it's like aby v2, then it's gonna be awesome to keep for collection


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> Can't wait to get from ebay uk, if it's like aby v2, then it's gonna be awesome to keep for collection


Every Mouse model you buy is worth keeping because it shows in real life, how the manufacturers have progressed and regressed in providing us all with so-called "GAMING MICE"







.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Every Mouse model you buy is worth keeping because it shows in real life, how the manufacturers have progressed and regressed in providing us all with so-called "GAMING MICE"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


hehe, well still can't throw away g502, no matter how many times juice got poured on it, got drilled, and plastic inside removed, haha, also can't throw away epicgear cyclops with 3090 sensor, still nice to frag around from time to time with it, less snappy, but good! Museum will be open soon!


----------



## wareya

the real question is does it do 666dpi


----------



## Bucake

visible shine development on my thumb and ring-finger spots
2-3 weeks before it starts to feel different?
gotta love dat nekkit abs


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> the real question is does it do 666dpi


No unless the mouse is possessed.


----------



## crzg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wifihero*
> 
> Those are some very early thoughts and I may change my mind after some more testing. At first, I also liked the DM1 Pro S and thought I have my holy grail mouse only to realize after more testing that it is actually a terrible mouse


Could you explain a bit why the dm1 pro is terrible? I had a similar experience. Loved it at first but the noticed that i get horrible fatigue after a while. Mainly because of the shape and weird buttons i think. Never had that problem with ss sensei.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crzg*
> 
> Could you explain a bit why the dm1 pro is terrible? I had a similar experience. Loved it at first but the noticed that i get horrible fatigue after a while. Mainly because of the shape and weird buttons i think. Never had that problem with ss sensei.


Isn't the DM1 PRO S the same as the Sensei in terms of shape? I found it uncomfortable because it was too big for an ambidextrous mouse for me. The buttons were fine if you got a decent unit. Nothing wrong with it although it does not feel as 'polished' as other mice.


----------



## crzg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Isn't the DM1 PRO S the same as the Sensei in terms of shape? I found it uncomfortable because it was too big for an ambidextrous mouse for me. The buttons were fine if you got a decent unit. Nothing wrong with it although it does not feel as 'polished' as other mice.


Its very similar but not exactly the same. While the sensei feels perfect in my hand, the dm1 feels a bit off, i think its bigger than a sensei. My buttons were fine but a bit too stiff for this shape. It Felt uncomfortable after a few days


----------



## sjukungen

Got this mouse yesterday.

+ Really good cable, I have a ceesa cable and I don't feel the need to put it on this mouse
+ Very good value for the price
+ Very good clicks. Really fast, tactile and easy to click while you still can rest your fingers on them without accidentally clicking them
+ Light scrollwheel click, accidental clicks of the scroll happens quite often while scrolling though
Decent enough scroll wheel

- Side buttons awkwardly placed, would prefer no side buttons at all if they have to be where they are.
- Combination of no specific coating and side buttons forces my thumb into a grip that doesn't feel natural
- Stock mouse feet kind of slow

Would have preferred a smaller mouse like the Logitech Mini Optical if it was possilbe but I don't think we'll see that shape from Logitech again.
Shape is decent, nothing special


----------



## wifihero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crzg*
> 
> Could you explain a bit why the dm1 pro is terrible? I had a similar experience. Loved it at first but the noticed that i get horrible fatigue after a while. Mainly because of the shape and weird buttons i think. Never had that problem with ss sensei.


I did not like the lift off distance (too low for my liking), too high click resistance, the build quality (RMB would bend inwards if pressed too hard and plastic feels cheap) and I also just couldn't get comfortable with the sensor. Maybe because my brain was subconsciously expecting the sensor to behave like the laser sensor in the sensei? I don't know but I just could not get comfortable. I did not have those problems with any 3310 mice of a similar shape I tried. Anyhow I am in love with the G102 now, the shape is not quite perfect but I just love the clicks and the sensor. I feel right at home with it as if I have been using it for years. I feel just as comfortable with as as with an IE3.0 only that I haven't used the G102 for like 12 years straight. I am seriously considering buying a couple more of them in case Logitech decides I is too much internal competition for their G Pro.


----------



## tjangel07

Quick Review

Pros
+Sensor. No problems with it.
+Shape. Fairly safe shape for claw and fingertip.
+Price. Got it for 22 bucks.
+Cable
+RGB Lighting
+Scroll wheel is nice and tactile. Middle click is easier to press compared to the G302
+LOD is pretty low. Lower than the G302.

Cons
-Switches feel too light. Takes some getting used to. I can accidentally click the RMB buy just tightly gripping the mouse. Only a problem with desktop browsing though.
-Mouse feet are small. I might add aftermarket ones later on.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> Quick Review
> 
> Pros
> +Sensor. No problems with it.
> +Shape. Fairly safe shape for claw and fingertip.
> +Price. Got it for 22 bucks.
> +Cable
> +RGB Lighting
> +Scroll wheel is nice and tactile. Middle click is easier to press compared to the G302
> +LOD is pretty low. Lower than the G302.
> 
> Cons
> -Switches feel too light. Takes some getting used to. I can accidentally click the RMB buy just tightly gripping the mouse.
> -Mouse feet are small. I might add aftermarket ones later on.


Sounds great, that is what i am looking for, thanks


----------



## Dreyka

I want to put a stiffer switch in my G102 for right mouse button. Any recommendations?


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I want to put a stiffer switch in my G102 for right mouse button. Any recommendations?


Huano switches?


----------



## m4gg0t

Mine arrives today, will let everyone know how they are when I get home.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> Mine arrives today, will let everyone know how they are when I get home.


ma4gg0t, I reckon you reside in Singapore & use a local tabao forwarder?

Would be great if you can inform me which taobao seller & the forwarder you use. Thanks


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignsvn*
> 
> ma4gg0t, I reckon you reside in Singapore & use a local tabao forwarder?
> 
> Would be great if you can inform me which taobao seller & the forwarder you use. Thanks


You can just directly buy from the seller, If I'm not mistaken SG is one of the countries which is supported by taobao global shipping.


----------



## m4gg0t

I used SGShop, so far my experience with them is not so good. My package was supposed to be delivered at 3:30pm and now it's almost 7pm and still nothing delivered.

My item was delivered around 8pm. On my way home now.

I got the packaged, one of the mice packaging was opened i suspect it was customs doing their thing.

The mouse that the customs opened has horrible feather light clicks, only a little force would actuate the switch, very annoying in game and desktop as well. In fact all the clicks on the mice that was opened by customs are way to light. Also the scroll wheel is a little shifted to the right, and when i scroll up i actuate the middle click that's how light it is.
The other copy that wasn't open is the better copy all round with clicks. Funny that the thumb buttons feel nicer then the main clicks. Sensor feel almost like a mix between a 3310 and 3366, don't know how to explain it. I don't quite know if i like the shape yet, thought i play decently. With the G102 i have to play with a finger tip/palm grip. I'm kinda leaning back towards the G403. Maybe ill give the G102 some time before my G Pros get here.

Upon further testing of my other G102, i can safely say that it has uneven clicks. LBM is a lot more stiffer then the RMB. GG


----------



## Sol9

Hows the size compared to the g302?I got used to the shape of the g302 pretty quickly.


----------



## tjangel07

About the same size overall


----------



## hslayer

where can I purchase the White G102 (in US)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> where can I purchase the White G102 (in US)


Umm... It's only for Chinese.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> where can I purchase the White G102 (in US)


Forward from Taobao to US.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Umm... It's only for Chinese.


or folk who are currently in China. People might think the Chinese would deny anybody from buying white g102, saying "Sorry, Chinese only."(in Chinese)

Joking aside, I just got this mouse.
I'm a 131 grip user, felt right at home with this shape just like other previous generations, just missing a button on the right side to be the perfect mouse. Logitech, please make the G3 ambi buttons layout great again and please use this cable from now on, it's great.

Same ol' thing to say, the m1 is light, I think it is almost the same as stock G90 which use the same 10 M switch. Everytime I press the m1 or m2, I feel like a momentary feel of blankness. Maybe because muscle memory of stiffer button. I don't really like the feeling, I'll change the m1-m2 button later.

Other thing I don't like is the scroll wheel, it is inconsistent. Wheel noise when scrolling up, but whispers when scrolling down. From tiny amount of mice with mechanical scroll wheel that I owned, I think only Avior made it consistent. Now I miss the consistency of using optical wheel sensor from previous logitech's mice.


----------



## L1nos

I also got my G102 today (bought via ebay). I have no issues at all. No Rattle, the Buttons are stiffer than the ones on my G Pro, the Wheel is quiet in both directions and the Wheel click is much lighter than the G Pro. I also enjoy the light cable on it. The whole mouse feels lighter than the G Pro. And for 30 Euros I'm very impressed.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> where can I purchase the White G102 (in US)


Aliexpress Link

Bit more expensive


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> I also got my G102 today (bought via ebay). I have no issues at all. No Rattle, the Buttons are stiffer than the ones on my G Pro, the Wheel is quiet in both directions and the Wheel click is much lighter than the G Pro. I also enjoy the light cable on it. The whole mouse feels lighter than the G Pro. And for 30 Euros I'm very impressed.


I haven't tried G pro as it's not coming over here so I don't have comparison. I only got cheapo G90 that within the same price class to compare.
I think you're lucky. The wheel seems like a common problem, unless you have 2 g pro/g102, you can't try the fix reported here

I tried lubing the physical contact part but it only lessen the frequency.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Aliexpress Link
> 
> Bit more expensive


Yeah I remember sending that seller a message to sell the white g102 once we knew they were being sold in China. Still, its quite expensive for some reason considering how cheap it was on Taobao.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Yeah I remember sending that seller a message to sell the white g102 once we knew they were being sold in China. Still, its quite expensive for some reason considering how cheap it was on Taobao.


It is actually around that much if I were to buy via taobao using forwarding service to my country.
I'm guessing you actually got one for cheap (implying from your sentence) because your country is on the list of supported countries of consolidation or direct shipping from taobao even if you're using forwarder.

Fortunate and unfortunately, I can buy black g102 for ~$20 only as it is an officially available here. Dang, I really want that white color, but for $30 more, I'd rather spend that on anotther g102 or might as well spend it on awesome food.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I used SGShop, so far my experience with them is not so good. My package was supposed to be delivered at 3:30pm and now it's almost 7pm and still nothing delivered.
> 
> My item was delivered around 8pm. On my way home now.
> 
> I got the packaged, one of the mice packaging was opened i suspect it was customs doing their thing.
> 
> The mouse that the customs opened has horrible feather light clicks, only a little force would actuate the switch, very annoying in game and desktop as well. In fact all the clicks on the mice that was opened by customs are way to light. Also the scroll wheel is a little shifted to the right, and when i scroll up i actuate the middle click that's how light it is.
> The other copy that wasn't open is the better copy all round with clicks. Funny that the thumb buttons feel nicer then the main clicks. Sensor feel almost like a mix between a 3310 and 3366, don't know how to explain it. I don't quite know if i like the shape yet, thought i play decently. With the G102 i have to play with a finger tip/palm grip. I'm kinda leaning back towards the G403. Maybe ill give the G102 some time before my G Pros get here.
> 
> Upon further testing of my other G102, i can safely say that it has uneven clicks. LBM is a lot more stiffer then the RMB. GG


Thanks for the info; I think I better wait for further reviews and/or impression on this G102.

Sorry to hear that yours has uneven clicks. My G402 also has uneven clicks, but it doesn't bother me much.


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> where can I purchase the White G102 (in US)


this is where i'm getting mine from. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE53D6558


----------



## Some Tech Nub

Looks like a good price for US buyers. Little bit odd that they have PRO G in the name though.


----------



## tjangel07

A week and a half after buying the mouse, I'm finally used to the lighter buttons.


----------



## sjukungen

My G102 has the best buttons I've ever used on a mouse. (I am quite picky about this and have changed microswitches on a couple of mice) Perfect tension, can rest my fingers on them and apply slight pressure without accidental clicks. Enabling really fast clicks with perfect bounceback.

They are also as close to symmetrical as possible. Only slight con is that they are little bit too loud for my liking. Bought the one from Germany on eBay.


----------



## acid_reptile

So they really managed to mess up the damn buttons even compared to the old logitech g1 from 10 years ago. Its really impressive in 2016 to not even get properly button feel out of a "gaming" product.

Its like 20 times worse than the G303.

Someone found a way to improve or fix it? Right click is almost usable, but left click just feels so damn bad. Won't use it.


----------



## qsxcv

rma until you get a good one








my second g pro has buttons as good as my g303's


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> rma until you get a good one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my second g pro has buttons as good as my g303's


So basically you caught a unicorn


----------



## Ufasas

First thoughts, wow!

L & RMB clicks nice light and smooth, reminds me g303 and g502 easily
Cable flexible how i like it, reminds zowie's!
Wheel is solid, doesn't skip a notch
LOD feels instantly like very low, a bit stiffer than LRMB, but good
Side buttons right in place, easy to reach, can't wait to try this mouse in game

Guess i subscribed to Logitechs and razer abyssuses -.-


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sol9*
> 
> Hows the size compared to the g302?I got used to the shape of the g302 pretty quickly.


I was always pretty pleased with the G303 shape, and couldn't get used to the G Pro. Hump in the back is too high, and it's too short for claw 131 grip in my (L) hands.

I'm more comfortable with the G403 and 131 hybrid compared to G303 claw than Pro claw.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

How long did the shipping take for those of you who ordered it from german ebay. They claim they sent the mouse on the 11th of November and Im yet to receive it 3 weeks later. Btw Im from Slovenia and considering how close Germany is I find this pretty ridiculous. I'll wait till monday and if I still wont receive it Im going to request my money back, Im pretty sure it got lost in shipping at this point. FeelsBadMan


----------



## SPiTTie01

I still waiting my order from the german seller too. I ordered it on nov 22 to Hungary. Usually the orders from EU takes ~1 week.
It was a waste of money, because the korean seller was cheaper and maybe takes the same shipping time...


----------



## L1nos

My G102 was shipped at November 22nd and arrived yesterday.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SPiTTie01*
> 
> I still waiting my order from the german seller too. I ordered it on nov 22 to Hungary. Usually the orders from EU takes ~1 week.
> It was a waste of money, because the korean seller was cheaper and maybe takes the same shipping time...


well it shows a 1+ week shipment time if you order aswell.
i live in germany ordered on mo. last week and was supposed to arrive mo-wed this week (got notification of shipment on tuesday last week i think) and came here yesterday. it is just the shipment type he chose to keep the shipping costs low it takes longer than a regular parcel afaik.


----------



## Dasher

What german seller are you talking about?
Is it aabbcc147 here?:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Maus-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-/232131741012?hash=item360c214554

If so, I got mine today from him (ordered on 22.11.2016, so it took 11 days to arrive to me in NRW-Germany).
The "Package" (its just a standard china plastic bag with address-sticker), doesn't look like it was sent from Germany. The return address is a P.o. Box in Schiedam/Holland.
The Logitech-Package is a little bit damaged, but the mouse itself if fine.


My impressions so far:
- Shape: I like the FK1 shape better. For me holding the FK1 feels more natural and comfier than holding g102 (gaming and browsing). There is no rattling whatsoever if you shake the G102, but you hear an annoying sound when you lift and put the mouse back on the mouse pad (it sounds like someone playing with springs. bzzzziiiiingg







).

- Coating (or lack of it): Sides feel a little bit slippery, but i have no problem with it. The shell part with the Zowie logo looks like its a transparent piece of plastic painted black, where G-Logo and the sides are etched into the paint. Don't know if paint will hold for long, time will tell.

- Cable: not as soft and light as compared to Zowie's, but it's usable (well, It's much better than Logitech's braided ones).

- Feet: I can feel and hear the friction coming from the mouse's feet on my QcK+ Pad. (I can see pad's tiny fibers sticking to feet's edges if i look at the feet closely. It looks like the feet are shaving my pad :/). I guess I'll need to buy another feet with rounded edges for the mouse.

- Clicks: Oh god, i need to get used to Omrons again, since those are so much softer than zowie's Huanos (I cant rest my fingers on them without clicking). Other than that, i didn't see any problems with any of the buttons. All clicks are very crispy and feel satisfying.

- Wheel: Compared to zowie's, the wheel is harder to scroll (you need more force), but is much easier to click. The surface is made of rubber and it feels REALLY SLIPPERY if you have sweaty/wet hands. Zowies rubber wheel though, sticks to your fingers no matter what. So far my biggest complaint.

- Sensor: played some Quake Live with it and didn't find any problems with it.

Will keep it as a backup mouse.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Yeah thats the seller. 11 day domestic shipping? I dont think so, they are probably sent from China?


----------



## Dasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> they are probably sent from China?


Yeah, that's my guess as well.


----------



## qsxcv

just got a black g102 from ebay from a korean seller. apparently it says G102IC

sn 1641
buttons are symmetric but slightly more mushy than those on my 1639 gpro

cable is slightly less flexible than that of my white g102


----------



## Snakesoul

@Dasher, i also ordered from the same seller, yesterday so it should arrive in 10 days... want to give it a try since it's cheaper than g pro... If i like the shape I'll possibly buy the pro. Coming from ec2-a, so lets see how it goes...


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Yeah or you will be waiting for more than 3 weeks like me


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> just got a black g102 from ebay from a korean seller. apparently it says G102IC
> 
> sn 1641
> buttons are symmetric but slightly more mushy than those on my 1639 gpro
> 
> cable is slightly less flexible than that of my white g102


Picked up a black G102 from amazon
Same experience with the cable
SN 1641
Model name is Logitech G102IC


----------



## ImpedingMadness

So I was intrigued by that G102IC thing. Apparently, that G102IC is PC bang edition or in english, meant for internet cafe and according to this seller page in korean, it only has 1 year warranty instead of normal 2 year. The price is also ~$18 (converted), well I don't know the normal price in korea







. Normal price in my country is ~$24.

I wonder what else is different for that $6? So far we have mushier button, less flex cable, and warranty.


----------



## ND9512

I guess that could be the same as rival 95- 95 pc bang, pretty much the same mouse, only some small different


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

If g102 same with rival 100(95), that's would be mean g102 is worst mouse


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Soooo after 25 days I've finally received my g102 from the German ebay seller, only 14 days late.








I only paid 23€ for it because I had a 10€ coupon for ebay and for that price its a steal.

Comparison to g403:
-M1 & M2 are noticeably lighter, but I got used to them in 10 minutes and I can rest my fingers on them without a problem. Both pretty much sound the same, but M2 is a bit lighter
-MWheel has more distinct notches which I prefer and its MUCH easier to press, G pro's wheel must be a pain to press considering its even heavier than g403's afaik(?)
-Side buttons are meh, small and mushy
-Feet are loud but dont scratch on my 5mm taito
-Cable is better than thick braid but i tape them to the back side of my monitor so they never bother me

Comparison to g100s:
-Better shape imo, couldnt hold g100s at all, I can relaxed palm g102 without a problem, probably because it has more room for my fingers on the right side (?)
-Heavier and more tactile M1&M2 which is a big improvement
-Side buttons are a big plus for me even if they arent anything special

Those are my brief 1st impressions, now, lets game


----------



## v0rtex-SI

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Logitech-G102-PRODIGY-Gaming-Maus-6000dpi-6-programmable-buttons-White-/391644913746?hash=item5b2fdb2052:g:AB8AAOSw-0xYRTBW
White g102, german ebay, 30€ + shipping


----------



## ND9512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> If g102 same with rival 100(95), that's would be mean g102 is worst mouse


I mean same in term of difference between pc bang (i cafe) version and original version, not between rival and g102


----------



## cnnd

Does it say G102IC on the box for that cheap/PC Bang edition?


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Does it say G102IC on the box for that cheap/PC Bang edition?


This question made me interested as well. So I searched the ebay and found this. They are meant for bulk as PC bang, in this definition is like gaming purpose internet cafe, won't only have only 1-3 PC right







.

Therefore, if you were to buy just one mouse, most probably the IC identification is on the sticker label. <- This really needs clarification.

Edit: Clarified, found this shop over here


----------



## duke7

Hey guys,

I bought the G102 from here and it arrived today. Unfortunately I found a problem.







The middle button is faulty. After I click and hold the middle button, it releases the click with my finger still on the button. I mean, the mmb is released/deactivated just before I hear the click. It should release it after the click. Is this normal for the G102? Anyone else having this problem? Did I get a faulty copy? What can I do in this case? Can you recommend an Ebay seller you've bought from where the middle button works fine?


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I bought the G102 from here ...What can I do in this case? Can you recommend an Ebay seller you've bought from where the middle button works fine?


the seller you bought from allows you to send back the item within 30 days. you can generally just go to you ebay page and next to the item you bought you can select "refund item" or sth similar. worst case you have to pay for shipping but thats it.


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scardd*
> 
> the seller you bought from allows you to send back the item within 30 days. you can generally just go to you ebay page and next to the item you bought you can select "refund item" or sth similar. worst case you have to pay for shipping but thats it.


Thanks for the suggestion. I kinda don't feel like going through the whole process of returning it. The wasted time posting it back and messaging back and forth would cost me about the same amount of money as the mouse itself.

Do you think I can fix it if I disassemble it and do this trick? Is it possible to do on the G102?


----------



## gene-z

Is Newegg the cheapest place to get the white version shipped to the USA? Can't find it anywhere else.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> Do you think I can fix it if I disassemble it and do this trick? Is it possible to do on the G102?


Nope, as the middle button is a different type of switch, a small rectangular kind. I think that kind of switch can only be repaired by replacing with new switch.
If you know how to solder and have the spare part or know someone who can do it for you, then it'd faster. Otherwise, sending it back might be less cumbersome.

You can see the detailed switch shape at Ino's review.


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> Nope, as the middle button is a different type of switch, a small rectangular kind. I think that kind of switch can only be repaired by replacing with new switch.
> If you know how to solder and have the spare part or know someone who can do it for you, then it'd faster. Otherwise, sending it back might be less cumbersome.
> 
> You can see the detailed switch shape at Ino's review.


You mean this post? I can barely see what's going on there, it's so blurry. If that's not what you meant can you please post the link to the post/image you refer to? Thanks!

How's the middle click on the G Pro? Is it as nice and light as the G102? I might just buy that one if it saves me soldering work. So none of you have this middle click problem on their G102's where it gets released before the click sound? I'm really mad as I already wasted so much time in researching this problem that I could have just bought the G Pro.

By the way, will this micro switch work for the middle click of G102? Which is the best one, which ones should I look for?


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> You mean this post? I can barely see what's going on there, it's so blurry. If that's not what you meant can you please post the link to the post/image you refer to? Thanks!
> 
> How's the middle click on the G Pro? Is it as nice and light as the G102? I might just buy that one if it saves me soldering work. So none of you have this middle click problem on their G102's where it gets released before the click sound? I'm really mad as I already wasted so much time in researching this problem that I could have just bought the G Pro.
> 
> By the way, will this micro switch work for the middle click of G102? Which is the best one, which ones should I look for?


I said Ino's, not my picture showing how to fix the grinding noise.

If I'm not mistaken G Pro use the same middle switch type as G102, just clarify that from Ino's G Pro review as well.

Yes, that'll work just fine. I think that's the best you can get as well.


----------



## Elrick

Okay Children, found a place to buy the WHITE version of this little toy;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/282280515533?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

AMAZING, right here in Convict Town. Always here to help the unfortunate (addicted) who always miss out in getting the RARE stuff.

Enjoy......

_(Of course I bought one to add to my collection)._


----------



## cloudshine

Australia

feelsbadman


----------



## duke7

I just ordered 10 x square Panasonic micro switches from Ebay to replace my faulty scroll wheel micro switch. I will ask a friend to do the soldering for me. Hopefully it works cause the mouse is otherwise awesome.


----------



## Johan450

I got mine today, Shape is really nice. Its no g9x replacer but its close, and I still prefer g9x left right click. Its really good though.
Its strange going from 9500 to anything without acc

Got mine from the german seller, arrived within a resonable weekish.


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> I got mine today, Shape is really nice. Its no g9x replacer but its close, and I still prefer g9x left right click. Its really good though.
> Its strange going from 9500 to anything without acc
> 
> Got mine from the german seller, arrived within a resonable weekish.


Congrats! It's a really nice mouse indeed. How is the scroll wheel on yours? Does it have the same scroll click issues like mine (see a few posts back)?


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> I got mine today, Shape is really nice. Its no g9x replacer but its close, and I still prefer g9x left right click. Its really good though.
> Its strange going from 9500 to anything without acc
> 
> Got mine from the german seller, arrived within a resonable weekish.


Congrats! It's a really nice mouse indeed. How is the scroll wheel on yours? Does it have the same scroll click issues like mine (see a few posts back)?


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> Congrats! It's a really nice mouse indeed. How is the scroll wheel on yours. Does it have the same scroll click issues like mine (see a few posts back)?


It doesn't release on its own if that's what you mean.


----------



## rpalmer92

Just wanted to chime in and say that this thing is the best damn ******* mouse I have ever used. 12-13 rws ESEA player with an 18cm hand here and I like to use my wrist but haven't found a mouse that can let me go to 4-5 sens at 400dpi because they all feel clunky and don't feel accurate at high sens so I was forced to 400 and 2-2.5, but with the g102 I am sitting comfortably at 1800dpi and 1 (translates over to 400 and 4.5) and I am still accurate as!

I love everything about this mouse -- the scroll feels amazing, can feel every step and it's smooth and good for bhop, the buttons (I missed my old G303 clicks), the sensor position and where it sits in my hand makes my aim perfect and I can flick horizontally so accurate now as opposed to other mice (ec2a, revel etc) and yeah I just friggin love it! Oh and the fact that I can get it for $40 AUD on eBay!!!!!!


----------



## wonderboysam

This mouse felt like total crap to me until I removed the feet, feels amazing now


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> This mouse felt like total crap to me until I removed the feet, feels amazing now


Hmm... that's strange. Mine are perfectly fine. Maybe it depends on the mouse pad? I'm using this cloth pad and it just glides. Initially it was like "meh" but after I've been using the mouse for a couple of days I think that the feet got polished and now it feels buttery smooth on this mouse pad.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> Hmm... that's strange. Mine are perfectly fine. Maybe it depends on the mouse pad? I'm using this cloth pad and it just glides. Initially it was like "meh" but after I've been using the mouse for a couple of days I think that the feet got polished and now it feels buttery smooth on this mouse pad.


yeah I suspected the mousepad too! (using a logitech g240, very thin could be the surface underneath that was affecting it idk)


----------



## qsxcv

used for like 2 days and the wheel-click on my korean g102 is chattering








oh well


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> used for like 2 days and the wheel-click on my korean g102 is chattering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well


That's what an IC gives you


----------



## k2015

got mine 2 days ago from the german ebay seller. i took aroud 12days to arrive me in germany NRW.
The mice just feeling great im just hitting all my shots . im just topfraging each game an my rws moved up 14.


----------



## duke7

How are the left / right buttons on your G102's? Are they really easy to click? After using mine for some time I realized the right click is so light that I accidentally click it while just resting my finger on it.







Is this common for this mouse? Anyway to fix it?


----------



## Evervescant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> How are the left / right buttons on your G102's? Are they really easy to click? After using mine for some time I realized the right click is so light that I accidentally click it while just resting my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this common for this mouse? Anyway to fix it?


I just got my g102 last night and I'm having the same problems as you. I keep accidentally clicking the side buttons in game. I'm thinking about taking the mouse apart to remove these buttons.

Coming from a g100s, I'm having a much harder time getting used to the g102 than I thought I would. Do you guys think this will get better with time? I don't want to go back to the g100s but I play MUCH better with it.


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evervescant*
> 
> I just got my g102 last night and I'm having the same problems as you. I keep accidentally clicking the side buttons in game. I'm thinking about taking the mouse apart to remove these buttons.
> 
> Coming from a g100s, I'm having a much harder time getting used to the g102 than I thought I would. Do you guys think this will get better with time? I don't want to go back to the g100s but I play MUCH better with it.


I was actually talking about the left and right buttons on top of the mouse, not the side buttons.Sorry for the confusion. The side buttons were never an issue for me to be honest.


----------



## wifihero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> This mouse felt like total crap to me until I removed the feet, feels amazing now


So do you use it completely without feet? Isnt that small border around them causing drag? What kind of mousepad are you using?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> How are the left / right buttons on your G102's? Are they really easy to click? After using mine for some time I realized the right click is so light that I accidentally click it while just resting my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this common for this mouse? Anyway to fix it?


mine are pretty light too but i love that they are so light. The RMB seems slightly lighter (whyyyy??? Why do msnufacturers keep doing that?) However not a single accidental click on RMB so far but i think it is due to how i hold the mouse. Usually the accidental right click is very common for me, i cant comletely palm grip the g102 there is a bit of space between mouse and fingers but the fingertips do rest on LMB und RMB with no issues.


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> How are the left / right buttons on your G102's? Are they really easy to click? After using mine for some time I realized the right click is so light that I accidentally click it while just resting my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this common for this mouse? Anyway to fix it?


You'll get used to it after a week or two


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> You'll get used to it after a week or two


I hope so because I keep accidentally clicking them, especially the right one. All the mice I've owned had stiffer right click unlike this one where RMB is lighter. I'm using a hybrid fingertip-palm grip with this mouse. It feels most comfortable for me. I temporary alleviated the issue by sliding a little piece of folded paper under the button similar to what this guy did. So far works pretty well. If anyone knows a more elegant solution I'll be happy to hear it.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> You'll get used to it after a week or two


Yeah, either adjust your grip in a ******ed manner, so that your finger is on the side resting at the tiny strip of shell available there, or learn to keep your muscles strained. Neither is a good solution.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

If you misclick by resting your fingers, the mouse and you aren't meant to be together.









Try changing to 131 grip if you're using 122 grip, that's the most neutral grip for ambidex shaped mouse. Not a good solution as well


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Yeah, either adjust your grip in a ******ed manner, so that your finger is on the side resting at the tiny strip of shell available there, or learn to keep your muscles strained. Neither is a good solution.


I just rest my fingers more on the body instead of the buttons


----------



## syrell

How high is the liftoff distance in cds?


----------



## tjangel07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> How high is the liftoff distance in cds?


Doesn't track at one CD


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evervescant*
> 
> I just got my g102 last night and I'm having the same problems as you. I keep accidentally clicking the side buttons in game. I'm thinking about taking the mouse apart to remove these buttons.
> 
> Coming from a g100s, I'm having a much harder time getting used to the g102 than I thought I would. Do you guys think this will get better with time? I don't want to go back to the g100s but I play MUCH better with it.


Just forget how you perform and play with it for the next 3-4 weeks. One day you'll find that your performance is very good. Don't think about it.


----------



## Ufasas

K after 2 days of few hours shootaround in csgo, gripping mouse is super awkward, i'd have loved sides more like rx250, more flat, missing usual awp shots so terribly, thinking of return..


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> This question made me interested as well. So I searched the ebay and found this. They are meant for bulk as PC bang, in this definition is like gaming purpose internet cafe, won't only have only 1-3 PC right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Therefore, if you were to buy just one mouse, most probably the IC identification is on the sticker label. <- This really needs clarification.
> 
> Edit: Clarified, found this shop over here


Thanks for the info


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> K after 2 days of few hours shootaround in csgo, gripping mouse is super awkward, i'd have loved sides more like rx250, more flat, missing usual awp shots so terribly, thinking of return..


Deciding after that short of a time is shooting yourself in the foot. After all, it's quite a different shape, it's to be expected.
Anyways, up to you.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> K after 2 days of few hours shootaround in csgo, gripping mouse is super awkward, i'd have loved sides more like rx250, more flat, missing usual awp shots so terribly, thinking of return..
> 
> 
> 
> Deciding after that short of a time is shooting yourself in the foot. After all, it's quite a different shape, it's to be expected.
> Anyways, up to you.
Click to expand...

AGREED, give it some time to adjust to this new shape. I almost NEVER return anything unless I buy it from a Bricks and Mortar outfit, simply because far better to keep it as an example for future use and contemplation.

Over time you will change whether you want to or not.


----------



## Zhuni

G102 White for sale in UK

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291963212844?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Snagged one.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

So.....why does it cost more on the Logitech site? Is it a wireless model? What justifies the cost being higher than the G Pro?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> What justifies the cost being higher than the G Pro?


What Logitech site are you on? MSRP is same as G100s iirc.


----------



## alancookie123

i modded my G102.

i changed micro switch both buttons and side buttons
i changed the cable using my za12, (so my za12 RIP for now)










got everything on taobao.com (with the soldering iron and all solder tool)

many types of switch

*currently i have:*

cherry DG4
cherry DG2

huano blue-shell-white-dot

ZIP (taiwan) DF3 white-dot

omron (china) D2FC-FL-NH (red dot)
omron (china) D2FC-F-7N(10M)
omron (china) D2FC-F-7N(10M)OF
omron (china) D2FC-F-7N(20M)

Kailh (china) white-dot

And i am using DG4 for both main buttons, DG2 for side buttons. The travel distance is the smallest, yet still very crispy. i do have a full chat of popular switchs information but they are all in chinese >.>

And i am using hotline feet coz they was given for free, and seems pretty neat. will worry about his later, now i am going to have some fun with my new mouse xD.


----------



## alancookie123

Ps: wheel doesn't rattle at all, might be just first day.
Right click feels softer, regardless what switch I use, (as long as same switch for both ofc).
Cable is so much better now, the zowie cable are best.
I am trying to mod the side button now, makjng them less hard to press, Idk how yet.

I don't have anything test with the sensor, I tried my best, can't make it spin out. No sensor rattle either.

The most doesn't make any little noise if I shake it in the air.


----------



## alancookie123

1


----------



## alancookie123

1


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> Delete my repost and this one, thanks damn.. First time here


How do you like it in CSGO/quake

Also, any big differences in Logitech G102IC ? Pc bang version


----------



## gene-z

Anyone know how much weight the LED assembly and side button assembly add in weight? I'm thinking about removing them to see if I can get the weight closer to the G100S.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Anyone know how much weight the LED assembly and side button assembly add in weight? I'm thinking about removing them to see if I can get the weight closer to the G100S.


Both together maybe 3g.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Probably should see the eligibility of cutting the led pcb parts and removal of opaque led shine thru shell as well. Massive mouse dieting


----------



## alancookie123

can we just cut the plastic somewhat balancely the out shell? like the part in middle of the pam where nothing touches my hand?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> How do you like it in CSGO/quake
> 
> Also, any big differences in Logitech G102IC ? Pc bang version


sorry i dont play those, i only play overwatch atm. I dont have deep history with FPS, used to play a lot gunz, but that is it. and i never heard of G102IC version nor own one. ...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



deathadder was the first serious mice i get. then i got za12, the weight difference improve my aim so much. ( find out finger tip grip suits me more)
then i got g403 due to discount sale (like 30$), the button is day and night difference for me

then i looked into G pro and found this mice. i cant think of any more reason to improve it to suits my needs, its already perfect for me. after few days with new switch, i am so glad my aim is even better.

it surprise me that the best mice is one that is so cheap and every mod went so well onto it xD so happy.

mice is like our hands but in game. it is so personal and everyone must be different xD


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> can we just cut the plastic somewhat balancely the out shell? like the part in middle of the pam where nothing touches my hand?
> sorry i dont play those, i only play overwatch atm. I dont have deep history with FPS, used to play a lot gunz, but that is it. and i never heard of G102IC version nor own one. ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> deathadder was the first serious mice i get. then i got za12, the weight difference improve my aim so much. ( find out finger tip grip suits me more)
> then i got g403 due to discount sale (like 30$), the button is day and night difference for me
> 
> then i looked into G pro and found this mice. i cant think of any more reason to improve it to suits my needs, its already perfect for me. after few days with new switch, i am so glad my aim is even better.
> 
> it surprise me that the best mice is one that is so cheap and every mod went so well onto it xD so happy.
> 
> mice is like our hands but in game. it is so personal and everyone must be different xD


Fair enough then, one friend of mine was offering overwatch, but i'm not much excited haha, looked fun from y0utube gameplays at least, thanks for quick reply. I am thinking to buy insulation tape and tape left/right sides lol, i need god damn 68 friggin mm in width, not 62!!! Then i hope i won't return it as i stated before


----------



## wonderboysam

Are people running the software while using this btw?


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Are people running the software while using this btw?


Only for the first time, later it's OFF!


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Are people running the software while using this btw?


Once your mouse is tuned, all the setting is saved inside your mice. Unless you want to change setting, the software is not required. Corsair step up!


----------



## wifihero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> Once your mouse is tuned, all the setting is saved inside your mice. Unless you want to change setting, the software is not required. Corsair step up!


Are you sure? When my computer boots up the light is changing all over the place only once im inside windows it goes to blue as set up in the logitech software. that let me to believe there is no onboard memory to save the settings.


----------



## Zhuni

You need to turn off start up lights in options.


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wifihero*
> 
> Are you sure? When my computer boots up the light is changing all over the place only once im inside windows it goes to blue as set up in the logitech software. that let me to believe there is no onboard memory to save the settings.


I never really paid attention to lighting tho and a rarely turn off pc. But when I do, and boot back up (without software startup) the mouse dpi is all correct, and 2 stages only (which I set it to). I also tried it on my mac, works the same.


----------



## Zhuni

Just got this off ebay.co.uk in white. After 4 g pros I much prefer this. For a start M1 and M2 are pretty equal. Rubber cable is great and coating is nice matte plastic. Looks sexy which is a plus!


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> Just got this off ebay.co.uk in white. After 4 g pros I much prefer this. For a start M1 and M2 are pretty equal. Rubber cable is great and coating is nice matte plastic. Looks sexy which is a plus!


Really, better than g pro? What happened to your 4 g pros


----------



## Johan450

Didn't think the rmb and lmb was super soft when I started using this mouse, then I tried my mico for a bit today. Such a huge difference.


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> Didn't think the rmb and lmb was super soft when I started using this mouse, then I tried my mico for a bit today. Such a huge difference.


You changed your switch as well? Nice, what did you use?


----------



## Johan450

Haven't bothered changing them out, Sure they're not as nice as d2f-01fs or the d2fc-f-ks that are in my g9x, but its good enough.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> Really, better than g pro? What happened to your 4 g pros


They all had QC issues. After playing with the mouse my accuracy is talking a beating. I may get used to it, but I've tried before and failed. I just got it for the lolz really. I think if you were pure finger tip this mouse would be lush.


----------



## alancookie123

What is different between finger tip and claw? XD


----------



## Ufasas

Riiight, changed my mind, lol, not returning it, wider ass saves this mouse, 85g to 100g <3


----------



## davidnggt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Are people running the software while using this btw?


You only need the software to change the DPI and lighting settings, after that you don't need it at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Riiight, changed my mind, lol, not returning it, wider ass saves this mouse, 85g to 100g <3


How is that even comfortable?


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davidnggt*
> 
> You only need the software to change the DPI and lighting settings, after that you don't need it at all.
> How is that even comfortable?


The answer is Personal preference I guess.

Wow, that looks ridiculous.... Why not just buy a different mice? I guess g 900 is about that weight, and shape?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> Why not just buy a different mice? I guess g 900 is about that weight, and shape?


lol no


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Riiight, changed my mind, lol, not returning it, wider ass saves this mouse, 85g to 100g <3


lol


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> 
> 
> Riiight, changed my mind, lol, not returning it, wider ass saves this mouse, 85g to 100g <3


Good to see someone choosing a chunky Arse for once.

Sometimes it is always better to have something huge to grip, during very long play sessions







.


----------



## wareya

I'm more concerned with the general width of the mouse than the length, when they're long and have a chunky butt it makes it a lot harder for me to aim up/down.


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Good to see someone choosing a chunky Arse for once.
> 
> Sometimes it is always better to have something huge to grip, during very long play sessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Is that the Kim Kardashian version of the G102?


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> 
> Is that the Kim Kardashian version of the G102?


It's Pamela Anderson in her prime version, sorry I grew up with Baywatch


----------



## Neshy414

Just ordered a white version of this from Ebay, mostly because i want the white shell for my Pro, but regardless i'm excited to give this sensor a go as well!


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> Just ordered a white version of this from Ebay, mostly because i want the white shell for my Pro, but regardless i'm excited to give this sensor a go as well!


It is really good. Considering the price, it makes no sense at all to buy the GPro if you can get a G102. I have tested both and I couldn't make out a difference.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> Just ordered a white version of this from Ebay, mostly because i want the white shell for my Pro, but regardless i'm excited to give this sensor a go as well!


Something I've yet to see anyone do, which would look pretty cool, is to use the upper white shell with the lower black shell. It would give it a two tone sort of look.


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> Something I've yet to see anyone do, which would look pretty cool, is to use the upper white shell with the lower black shell. It would give it a two tone sort of look.


I'm going to give that a go and see how it looks.


----------



## Rayndalf

I've been thinking about a similar look with a white upper, but with black buttons... something like this 
(the g102 is of course the AE85 to the g pro's AE86...)


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> Just ordered a white version of this from Ebay, mostly because i want the white shell for my Pro, but regardless i'm excited to give this sensor a go as well!


On
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> I'm going to give that a go and see how it looks.


Please take pictures, I'm interested to see that.


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayndalf*
> 
> I've been thinking about a similar look with a white upper, but with black buttons... something like this
> (the g102 is of course the AE85 to the g pro's AE86...)


Would be awesome to find the Japanese writing on the Initial-D AE86 as a small sticker, that'd look great on mouse1 when applied like ScreaM's signature on the S1.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> Please take pictures, I'm interested to see that.


Will do.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Give it black and white braid cable as well


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> Give it black and white braid cable as well


Well, what a coincidence, already got that sorted.

Honestly though i didn't have a black and white mouse planned when i bought CeeSA's cable last week.


----------



## Johan450

Got my G Pro hyperglides two days ago, didn't realize how bad the original feet were until I put these on


----------



## granitov

How durable is the texture on the G102? Should I apply a clear coat to preserve it?


----------



## ImpedingMadness

I doubt it even has any coating, some of inner shell has same texture like outer shell so unless you drop and crack the whole thing, any other stuff is unnecessary.


----------



## gene-z

I was just installing hyperglides and decided to pop the mouse open and look around inside. One thing I noticed is how light the mouse actually is when you remove the top shell layer. The PCB including bottom shell are insanely light. All the weight comes from the top shell that has the buttons and dpi button. And the mouse feels 100X better when I removed some parts from the top shell just to see how it would feel with reduced weight. It didn't force me to pinch the sides as hard and it reminded me a lot more of the G100s. The sides felt really comfortable when my fingers didn't have to support the additional weight. It really felt like a new mouse to me.

I think they purposely made the top assembly a heavy thick plastic to make the mouse have some weight to it, kind of like the G100S did with a removable weight. I guess people associate heavy products with quality. Without that top assembly, the mouse is as light as the G100s with the weight removed.


----------



## granitov

Well, at least the LED assembly/separator is removable. And the top shell has lots of joints I bet I could drill some of them away safely. Though the moderately thorough drilling of a DA shell yielded merely a 3g weight reduction.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> I doubt it even has any coating


That's why I'm asking. Bet the texture will become smooth and glossy and slippery in a month or two.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Unless you hand is oilfield, I doubt it'll go smooth/glossy/slippery in a mere month or two.
Its texture undermicroscope is rougher than normal abs keycaps you find in keyboard or cheap mouse. In fact, I do have logitech m100 as mouse office which is already smooth and oily after many years of use







, but its default texture is smoother than this. If I have to compare, the roughness is almost the same enjoypbt pbt keycaps and I reckon it'd be hard to even make it smooth.
If it is a bit oily after usage, same treatment as keycaps, oncle a year or two you can disassemble, soak the shell in diluted soap water, brush it a bit, and done. If you're lazy, just buy another one.

Clear coat can also make it smooth and peel, I'd rather use grip tape.


----------



## Bucake

the texture will wear down fast because of friction from your grip. it's plain ABS after all. if you can make the coating stick, then i suggest your clear coat if you don't like that glossy smooth slippery stuff @granitov.


----------



## granitov

Will share if it goes right. Gonna make a test on an expendable mouse first, as I have a couple of days before the G102 arrives.


----------



## syrell

asus sica has the best design to open the mouse and change everything easy - even switches with no soldering


----------



## Snakesoul

Just got this mouse today (after waiting almost 20 days), first impressions, it's well built, no rattle at all, mouse buttons are good and equal, not too sensible, but they are light. (coming from an ec2-a, so...), mouse cable it's ok, but i have a mouse bungee so it's not a problem for me. Mouse skates are ok, they didn't break yet, but i guess i'll try hyperglides.
Scroll wheel it's much better registering than ec2, but i like the rubberized one on ec2...
It's my first experience with an ambi dextrous mouse since ss xai, and i'm liking it, i can palm it and also palm claw (i curl my index finger and it's still comfy, btw hand size, 18cm x 10cm)
I bought it because it's way cheaper than g pro, and wanted to give it a try and i like it so far.
Ec2-a is more comfortable, that's why it's meant to be for palm grip







, but i guess i can aim better with this mouse, maybe it's because it's smaller, but it's been fun playing with it, at least 2 hours gaming so far. My hand doesn't feel tired at all...
Here's my opinion








BTW which mouse feet are best from hotline games? 0.28 or 0.60?
I want to try hyperglides, but shipping is almost the same price as the skates from an european e-store...


----------



## OrangeRaptor

Is the g102 available in the united states? I don't see on the logitech site.


----------



## Melan

Asian markets only. You can buy it off ebay though.


----------



## OrangeRaptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Asian markets only. You can buy it off ebay though.


I actually found it on newegg. I really want to get the white version and put the g pro internals inside of it. My setup has a lot of white in it.









http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE53D6558


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OrangeRaptor*
> 
> ... I really want to get the white version and put the g pro internals inside of it. My setup has a lot of white in it.


same here


----------



## Some Tech Nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OrangeRaptor*
> 
> I actually found it on newegg. I really want to get the white version and put the g pro internals inside of it. My setup has a lot of white in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE53D6558


Ships from China from a third party seller. So basically the same thing as eBay.


----------



## OrangeRaptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Some Tech Nub*
> 
> Ships from China from a third party seller. So basically the same thing as eBay.


Oh... Well I havent had issues with third party sellers on newegg, except yesterday I ordered some batteries for some smoke alarms and noticed today that there was cheaper ones from duracell that I didnt notice. I requested a refund but theres already a shipping number so I'm not sure if they will grant the refund.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> same here


the blue one looks so sweet


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I was just installing hyperglides and decided to pop the mouse open and look around inside. One thing I noticed is how light the mouse actually is when you remove the top shell layer. The PCB including bottom shell are insanely light. All the weight comes from the top shell that has the buttons and dpi button. And the mouse feels 100X better when I removed some parts from the top shell just to see how it would feel with reduced weight. It didn't force me to pinch the sides as hard and it reminded me a lot more of the G100s. The sides felt really comfortable when my fingers didn't have to support the additional weight. It really felt like a new mouse to me.
> 
> I think they purposely made the top assembly a heavy thick plastic to make the mouse have some weight to it, kind of like the G100S did with a removable weight. I guess people associate heavy products with quality. Without that top assembly, the mouse is as light as the G100s with the weight removed.


any pics of before & after, what you removed etc?


----------



## alancookie123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> same here


Where did you get the cables from? XD


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancookie123*
> 
> Where did you get the cables from? XD


http://www.overclock.net/t/1560198/a-small-video-about-homemade-mouse-cable

They are fricking great!


----------



## tramas

Hi guys, I have the G pro and I am used to the 3366 now but, I like the white shell so I ordered the G102.

So my question is, can I swap the internals of the G pro to the white G102 shell? Fits perfect? The PCB, the buttons, the sensor position and the lens size?

And now one question to those who have both of them, whitch sensor do you prefer? I've heard mercury sensor is really good aswell but dunno if it's on pair with the 3366 level.

Thank you and merry christmas!!


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> So my question is, can I swap the internals of the G pro to the white G102 shell? Fits perfect?


Yes. White G102 even has lens grooves intended for 3366.


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> Hi guys, I have the G pro and I am used to the 3366 now but, I like the white shell so I ordered the G102.
> 
> So my question is, can I swap the internals of the G pro to the white G102 shell? Fits perfect? The PCB, the buttons, the sensor position and the lens size?
> 
> And now one question to those who have both of them, whitch sensor do you prefer? I've heard mercury sensor is really good aswell but dunno if it's on pair with the 3366 level.
> 
> Thank you and merry christmas!!


I own both of them and to be honest: I can't feel any difference. My performance with the g102 is as good as with the G Pro. So in my opinion: if you can get your hands on the g102, choose it over the GPro. It is not worth the higher price

Oh, and merry Christmas to you all


----------



## tramas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yes. White G102 even has lens grooves intended for 3366.


So g102 white and black shell are different?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> I own both of them and to be honest: I can't feel any difference. My performance with the g102 is as good as with the G Pro. So in my opinion: if you can get your hands on the g102, choose it over the GPro. It is not worth the higher price
> 
> Oh, and merry Christmas to you all


I know is not worth the price, I think everyone knows







but, I have the G pro already, I bought it on black friday 50% off deal. I have a 10$ off ebay coupon code so the white G102 will cost ~20$ for me.
That's why I'm asking if it fits.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> So g102 white and black shell are different?


No. Meant to say G102 has the grooves, not just white one.


----------



## HotCheetos333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> Something I've yet to see anyone do, which would look pretty cool, is to use the upper white shell with the lower black shell. It would give it a two tone sort of look.


this idea is really great. i imagine the contrast of the black scroll wheel parts against the white top shell would play nicely into one classy scheme overall, yet you can get straight two-tone black-shoe-white-sole-nike vibes going w the other config.

anyways just had to second the motion to get someone to do it. great suggestion tylerdalton


----------



## TheOnlyDonut

Is this mouse going to be sold in the EU? I tried looking it up but i only found this one which pretty much looks like the same mouse but under a different name http://gaming.logitech.com/sv-se/product/pro-gaming-mouse and its twice as expensive!!

Is it going to be launched in Europe too or did they replace it with this model? I dont wanna buy it off a chinese reseller on ebay id rather wait if possible.


----------



## Melan

Asian market only.


----------



## Snakesoul

You can ordered it from ebay, i did it, it took almost 20 straight days to arrive, but it was here before Christmas...
It's a good little mouse. Still getting used to it, especially playing battlefield, where i have right mouse button for Ads, but for cs it's been great.
Btw can someone tell me the difference between the sizes of hotlines skates?
Thanks in advance, and merry Christmas everyone


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> You can ordered it from ebay, i did it, it took almost 20 straight days to arrive, but it was here before Christmas...
> It's a good little mouse. Still getting used to it, especially playing battlefield, where i have right mouse button for Ads, but for cs it's been great.
> Btw can someone tell me the difference between the sizes of hotlines skates?
> Thanks in advance, and merry Christmas everyone


0.28 is for stacking/you put them on the original feet, with 0.6 you remove the stock/old ones.


----------



## arandomguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Asian market only.


Really wish this was also a NA release but I can't really feel comfortable paying almost the same price as the G Pro (due to Black Friday sales) for no warranty and exchanges.

If they'd release this also and it had the same sale prices I'd have gotten this instead due to no braid and white color.


----------



## Neshy414

So here you go, apologies that it took so long, package didn't arrive before Christmas. Anyway, looks kinda awesome in black and white, though i've decided to keep them full black and full white for the moment at least, looks a bit cleaner.

Short word on the G102; i can't feel a difference between the sensors apart from the G102 having slightly lower DPI on the 400 step. The buttons feel a little less tactile and are a bit quieter and the middle mouse click is easier to press in. Don't really have anything to complain about for that price, seems like a great mouse to me.




Spoiler: More Photos


----------



## the1freeMan

^ White top with black bottom looks sick. They should offer that option by default.


----------



## Maximillion

The BF1 edition w/ white top would be interesting


----------



## HotCheetos333

awesome pictures Neshy414. thanks, I wanted to see that.

The only thought i ever had about all the g pro colors was that the BF1 G pro would (imo) actually look better with a black scroll while the BF1 scroll wheel would actually have a better color pop on the normal black g pro.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HotCheetos333*
> 
> awesome pictures Neshy414. thanks, I wanted to see that.
> 
> The only thought i ever had about all the g pro colors was that the BF1 G pro would (imo) actually look better with a black scroll while the BF1 scroll wheel would actually have a better color pop on the normal black g pro.




Flash made the orange wheel look yellow but you get the idea.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> any pics of before & after, what you removed etc?


No pics and it's not practical, besides just removing the DPI button. I just removed some stuff to see how it would feel with just a rough shape. The top shell is made of 4 separate parts (not including dpi button), the top half and bottom half just snap into place, then the L/RMB are screwed into the top part shell.

Your best bet if you want to tone down the weight is just removing the DPI button, removing a few screws, and then sanding down the plastic frame with some sand paper. I thought maybe removing the side buttons and LED would help, but it wouldn't be worth it, as it's extremely light on the bottom part. As I mentioned, all the weight comes from the top shell.


----------



## duke7

I don't know about you but I'm starting to think that this mouse is *****. First, my copy came with a faulty scroll button (see some of my earlier posts in this thread), now a few days ago after just a month of usage, left button started squeaking.







And before someone says it's my fault... I'm not even a gamer. I've used the mouse purely for productivity and I've never banged on the buttons. I always treat my stuff with care.

I think there's your reason they are selling this mouse this cheap. Quality control seems shi*t for this model. And I had such high hopes for it, even thought it would be top choice in this price segment. If right now anyone asked me if it's worth buying the G102, I would tell them to not waste their money. Thinking of smashing this junk against the wall and buying the G Pro or another mouse. At least I'll have a warranty and could send it for repair/replacement if it breaks. Grr... I even had ordered new micro switches off ebay to replace my scroll button. Money "well spent".


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duke7*
> 
> I don't know about you but I'm starting to think that this mouse is *****. First, my copy came with a faulty scroll button (see some of my earlier posts in this thread), now a few days ago the left button started squeaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And before someone says it's my fault... I'm not even a gamer. I've used the mouse purely for productivity and I've never banged on the buttons. I always treat my stuff with care.
> 
> I think there's your reason they are selling this mouse this cheap. Quality control seems shi*t for this model. And I had such high hopes for it, even thought it would be top choice in this price segment. If right now anyone asked me if it's worth buying the G102, I would tell them to not waste their money. Thinking of smashing this junk against the wall and buying the G Pro or another mouse. At least I'll have a warranty and could send it for repair/replacement if it breaks. Grr...


The Logi Pro has the same QC issues, the newer Logi mice are just a mess right now.


----------



## duke7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> The Logi Pro has the same QC issues, the newer Logi mice are just a mess right now.


Well good. Hopefully more people see my post and don't get tricked into buy their junk. At least if I bought the G Pro I would have a warranty and have it replaced/fixed. Even my 5 year old $10 mouse works better than this *****. It just has worse sensor and angle snapping and that's why I got fooled into buying that piece of cr*p.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> The Logi Pro has the same QC issues, the newer Logi mice are just a mess right now.


Always were and always will be, so are all other I have ever tried. They have one in common: "Made in Asia" with high tolerances and poor QC if any QC at all.
Reason? So you gotta buy a new one soon not keep a good old mouse for decades like me.


----------



## granitov

A decently built mouse for once, light and even buttons, little to no wheel rattle, ok sensor. And I'm all like, "how do I grip it?". Goes into a drawer for now.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> A decently built mouse for once, light and even buttons, little to no wheel rattle, ok sensor. And I'm all like, "how do I grip it?". Goes into a drawer for now.


Not sure what kind of grip or hand size you have, but coming from an Zowie ec2-a, it feels awkward first, but i can palm it comfortably. Not the best shape compared to Zowie, but i can live with it.


----------



## c1tramon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> So here you go, apologies that it took so long, package didn't arrive before Christmas. Anyway, looks kinda awesome in black and white, though i've decided to keep them full black and full white for the moment at least, looks a bit cleaner.
> 
> Short word on the G102; i can't feel a difference between the sensors apart from the G102 having slightly lower DPI on the 400 step. The buttons feel a little less tactile and are a bit quieter and the middle mouse click is easier to press in. Don't really have anything to complain about for that price, seems like a great mouse to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: More Photos


The black top/white bottom like a killer whale, and it looks cool. And it's practical.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> palm it


This is it, I can palm it, but for playing a game I need to claw it and I can't figure out where to put my pinky finger without rotating the mouse.

Also, the feet are strange. Unsure why (as they feel the same as the others to the touch) but they are unfathomably slow. And those Hotline competition replacement feet haven't arrived yet - not too big of a deal already, anyway.


----------



## Johan450

I got a white one that seems to have a loose dpi button and some lens movement. Buttons feel better than my black one though.


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Your best bet if you want to tone down the weight is just removing the DPI button, removing a few screws, and then sanding down the plastic frame with some sand paper. I thought maybe removing the side buttons and LED would help, but it wouldn't be worth it, as it's extremely light on the bottom part. As I mentioned, all the weight comes from the top shell.


Removing the side buttons and its PCB helps IMO.


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> I got a white one that seems to have a loose dpi button and some lens movement. Buttons feel better than my black one though.


Lens movement seems to have been placebo. Dpi button is now gone, mouse is now perfect









Also if someone wants to get rid of their dpi button lemme know.


----------



## Tech Guru

poor mouse feet indeed. i had one, and its mouse feet is slow. slower than an ordinary $3 mouse.


----------



## cnnd

Does this mouse have noisy clicks like EC2-A? Can you hear them from outside the room?


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Does this mouse have noisy clicks like EC2-A? Can you hear them from outside the room?


Depends, QC is non existent so some have noisy clear clicks, and some soft silent clicks.


----------



## sneekydingo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Does this mouse have noisy clicks like EC2-A? Can you hear them from outside the room?


I have 2 and they're both very similar to G303


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sneekydingo*
> 
> I have 2 and they're both very similar to G303


I don't have G303 so I don't know about that..


----------



## wifihero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Does this mouse have noisy clicks like EC2-A? Can you hear them from outside the room?


I don't have an EC2-A but I'd say pretty noisy. I compared it with a couple of mice I had on my desk and the clicks of the G102 appear to be the loudest.


----------



## Bucake

my G303 has noticeably less noisy clicks than my G102
i don't have the EC to compare however


----------



## Johan450

Its not that consistent, my black one is a bit stiffer and louder. It feels like the tension can be a bit uneven between models.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

I just purchased the G102 IC edition. I am a bit worried, was that a bad decision? It's coming in today, a little worried thats its going to be plagued with problems. I didn't come across this thread until now. I saw amazon prime and instantly went with it, didn't know newegg sells it. Fingers crossed.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> I just purchased the G102 IC edition. I am a bit worried, was that a bad decision? It's coming in today, a little worried thats its going to be plagued with problems. I didn't come across this thread until now. I saw amazon prime and instantly went with it, didn't know newegg sells it. Fingers crossed.


It's like lottery, even in the normal edition. The black one I bought S/N 1640 got wheel upstroke grinding noise (fixed with lube) and I imported the white one S/N1640 and it is excellent.

You're pretty unforunate because they just announced G203 which is most probably intended for US/EU market (warranty!).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> You're pretty unforunate because they just announced G203 which is most probably intended for US/EU market (warranty!).


So that would mean no white version?


----------



## wifihero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> I just purchased the G102 IC edition. I am a bit worried, was that a bad decision? It's coming in today, a little worried thats its going to be plagued with problems. I didn't come across this thread until now. I saw amazon prime and instantly went with it, didn't know newegg sells it. Fingers crossed.


I would not worry too much. Mine has an IC on the back but came in normal sealed retail box.I have no issues with it all is working as it should.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So that would mean no white version?


Dunno, for answer please check logitech website for your country. If it has white colour option, then you're lucky(?), just like g102 in china website.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> Will share if it goes right. Gonna make a test on an expendable mouse first, as I have a couple of days before the G102 arrives.


given this a try yet?


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> given this a try yet?


Yes, the result was it being too glossy and unpleasant. Should try something like Rustoleum textured paint, but I'm unable to find one locally.

And as for G102 I'm not using it as my daily driver due to the shape.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Just got the G102 IC. Guess I was lucky, this hasn't even been touched. Clicks are all light to the touch. Never noticed how large my hands are until I started using this, but it reminds me of the WMO just a tad shorter. So far so good. Anyone looking to purchase the g102 IC version I give it a thumbs up. Will update if I have any issues.

EDIT: I spinned out, thought it was the sensor. Was my dogs hair. M1 and M2 feel lighter than my wmo. Interesting.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-1nf1n1ty-*
> 
> Just got the G102 IC


Which colour did you get? Does it say G102IC on the sticker on the bottom shell?
I bought white even though it says G102IC on the seller page but I got a normal edition with normal retail package, which make me think most probably there is no white IC edition.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImpedingMadness*
> 
> Which colour did you get? Does it say G102IC on the sticker on the bottom shell?
> I bought white even though it says G102IC on the seller page but I got a normal edition with normal retail package, which make me think most probably there is no white IC edition.


I got a black one. I wanted a white one but its fine. The sticker does say Logitech G102IC Prodigy Gaming Mouse. Mine came in a box with the cable wrapped up neatly and in a soft plastic bag. So far absolutely NO problems what so ever.


----------



## cnnd

This mouse is sold out from local stores in Indonesia 3 days after the restock every month







I mean I get it you get good looking and top performer with just $20


----------



## karod

I currently try to return mine on ebay.
I must have had bad luck, M2 sticks often down. And comes up slowly.

Otherwise, I am surprised that it fits me a tad better than the RX250 (which is slimmer and more parallel on the sides.

Top view:

RX 250 | |
G102 ( )

Or does anyone know how to fix a sticking M2 button?
Then I could fix it myself, don't send it back and take the refund.


----------



## syrell

refund without sending back? how does that work?And If u open up the mouse , cannot send it back or refund afaik - thats for sure!


----------



## karod

They offer me 15€ refund if I keep it. (Kaufpreisminderung)
Anyways,
I decided to return it. I am currently in contact with the seller.


----------



## gene-z

Got a DSLR and bored:


----------



## hoag

hi everyone

I'm using g102 for 2 -3 days now but i felt the mouse quite slow. I can't turn 180 degree ingame like my old mouse (ZA12) it's because of the mouse feet or the sensor itself?. I has same sensitivity and dpi on both mouse (400 dpi - 1.86 ingame) my mousepad is G-SR Blue







.

And i've notice the LOD too low


----------



## granitov

It's most likely the feet.


----------



## plath

I just bought one from Malaysia for $20. Probably get it by Feb. Hope it's a decent mouse.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> I just bought one from Malaysia for $20. Probably get it by Feb. Hope it's a decent mouse.


Link plox?


----------



## RealSteelH6

^ Probably a local store


----------



## RealSteelH6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> The whole mouse feels lighter than the G Pro. And for 30 Euros I'm very impressed.


100% this. I have no idea why but the G102 feels noticeably lighter even if it says its heavier on paper. And the side buttons feel a harder to actuate.


----------



## tweaker123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RealSteelH6*
> 
> 100% this. I have no idea why but the G102 feels noticeably lighter even if it says its heavier on paper. And the side buttons feel a harder to actuate.


is this actually true? i have the logitech g pro right now and i like the shape, but i feel like its heavy for its size and i dont like the braided cable at all too. im honestly thinking just selling my g pro and buying the 102c prodigy instead BECAUSE of what you guys said that it actually feels lighter than the G PRO and for the NON braided cable.


----------



## Tarinth

It's 87g on my scale...


----------



## RealSteelH6

Yes its heavier on scale but it "feels" lighter. Maybe due to the cable or weight Distribution


----------



## wareya

Weights are centralized (in terms of locality, not position) masses, which are a lighter-feeling way to add weight than more plastic as long as they're not in a stupid location.


----------



## L1nos

The cable is the reason for that. The G Pro cable is a very durable and high quality one, but its weight is very noticeable on a light mouse like the G Pro. Put it on a G502 for example, and you won't feel it because the mouse is heavy like a brick ^^.

If you put a paracord from ceesa on the G Pro, it will feel even lighter than the G102.


----------



## Tarinth

Yeah, i also think it's the cable.


----------



## TheNoobSlayer

Hoag when i get a new mouse i usually adjust my settings a bit to get a similar feel.


----------



## Soo8

This thing is awesome! I'm so glad I didn't get the G Pro as the G102 is the superior version IMO. The cable is a bit less flexible than a debraided G403 but it holds it shape way better and it's quite a bit lighter. The sensor is on par with 336X sensors moving from a standstill and using muscle memory, but the tracking at higher speeds and while in motion is so intuitive and easy to control. The 3310 and 336X variants never felt so consistent and manageable. I'm eager to see what Logitech does next with this sensor.


----------



## Evgennius

Can anyone test their polling rate on this puppy?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







It seems to fluctuate quite a bit or my hands are just that crooked.


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evgennius*
> 
> Can anyone test their polling rate on this puppy?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to fluctuate quite a bit or my hands are just that crooked.


Seems like your PC has some inconsistent polling, because mine is pretty stable at around 1ms.


----------



## Bucake

stable? you should see haggard's plots









anyway, @Evgennius if that's the G102, then i think you're just not doing it right.
just keep going in circles at high-ish speed and it should report stably at 1khz


----------



## Kirisu

Guys, stupid question but I haven't been browsing OC much lately, the G102 is the same as the G203, right? I didn't order a G Pro but I went ahead and ordered a G203 since it's more in my price range (and my Xornet 2 wheel broke). These are the same mice, right?

Shape/dimensions wise, all 3 mices (Pro, 102, 203) are exactly the same, are they not?

Logitech is a bit confusing with their naming.


----------



## imdavidboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirisu*
> 
> Guys, stupid question but I haven't been browsing OC much lately, the G102 is the same as the G203, right? I didn't order a G Pro but I went ahead and ordered a G203 since it's more in my price range (and my Xornet 2 wheel broke). These are the same mice, right?
> 
> Shape/dimensions wise, all 3 mices (Pro, 102, 203) are exactly the same, are they not?
> 
> Logitech is a bit confusing with their naming.


G Pro has the PWM3366 sensor
G102/203 have the Mercury sensor

Both use the same shell with the Pro having a coating on the shell exterior.


----------



## Evgennius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Seems like your PC has some inconsistent polling, because mine is pretty stable at around 1ms.


Thanks for the tip man! It was, probably, VIA VL800 USB 3.0 chip. I've googled a bit and it seems these VIA chips are kinda bad. As I switched to Intel USB 3.0 it became noticeably better.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirisu*
> 
> the G102 is the same as the G203, right?


I can't be 100% sure, but to add some weight to "g102=g203" argument - it will retail for less than 30 bucks in Russia and also their official group post states that they're basically one and the same (look at the "g102 (203)") part


----------



## karod

G102 was intended for the Asian market as far as I know and can be bought for ~32€ via Ebay.de for example.
The G203 seems to be for the EU/NA market and is sold for 39,99€ via Logitech.de and in local electronics stores like Mediamarkt and Saturn.

But spec wise they seem to be exactly the same.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karod*
> 
> G102 was intended for the Asian market as far as I know and can be bought for ~32€ via Ebay.de for example.
> The G203 seems to be for the EU/NA market and is sold for 39,99€ via Logitech.de and in local electronics stores like Mediamarkt and Saturn.
> 
> But spec wise they seem to be exactly the same.


pretty late to the party m8


----------



## karod

What's your problem? I responded to Kirisu because evgennius wasn't 100% certain and didn't state what I did.


----------



## gene-z

I was bored and decided to try and reduce the weight. It was only $35, so why not?

Tools used: Mini wire snip to snip plastic and a 1/4 chisel to scrape out plastic left behind.

Hi-res: http://i.imgur.com/oWm7rM4.jpg



Snipped a bunch of excess plastic, removed some screws (5 total), and removed the DPI button (never used it, only use 1 dpi). It functions and feels exactly like it did before, so it doesn't lose any functionality (unless you need dpi button) or feel weird.

Don't have a scale, but it feels a small bit heavier than a G100s with weight removed now.


----------



## Luminair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I was the product manager for G102. In fact, it effectively will be the last product I run from start to finish, as I have a new product manager for mice. I'm now looking over the entire portfolio, and work with all the product managers to make our gear better.


Congratulations! What I'd like to see from Logitech is more consistency. We've got so many products with so many differences that aren't on the box. Different clicks on buttons, different feels on scroll wheels, different feet, different designs at different sizes, different materials...

For example, look at hand size. The big mouse and the small mouse don't just vary by size, they vary by EVERYTHING. I can't get a small g403, but if I like the g pro, I can't get a g pro with the clicks of a g403. I would like all the differences to make sense rather than be random. When you buy a Zowie you know you are getting the same mouse for a different hand size. One of my pet peeves is mouse feet. Ideally there would be 4 circles, one in each corner. But every mouse has totally different mouse feet which changes how each mouse feels and wears down on different mouse pads. Form vs function, and I want my hardware to be function









Speaking of form vs function, some mice have convex sides and some have concave sides. If the ergonomics community knows which one works best, I wish we would do that and stick to it. Mouseman+, MX518, and Roccat Kone Pure are generations apart but all have the same comfortable concave thumb side. G Pro has a convex thumb side. I don't know which is better, but I wish we could stick to what is.

And speaking of Mouseman+, he is ready for his reintroduction Mr. Pate! There will never be a better side button than the one you can click without moving your thumb, by just rolling it instead!

It's also worth considering that there are multiple different ways to hold a mouse, and the designers know this and design different mice to be held differently, but nobody ever writes this down on a website or on a box, and these two groups of people never communicate. The G900 feels amazing in 1-3-1 grip because of the curved sides which let you pick it up and maneuver it with just 2 fingers while also using 7 inputs with 3 fingers on top. But nobody ever told me that.

I hope you continue listening to the mouse experts online when they complain about defects like rattly parts. But I also hope you listen to their persistent complaints over the years, including those about stiff cables and stiff clicks. I can forgive manufacturing problems at the start, but I was surprised to read that the brand new mice had really hard middle button clicks and stiff cables. These are design problems and shouldn't have happened in the first place.








Good luck in your new position, and thanks again for reading the forums!


----------



## the1freeMan

^ A shape being good doesn't necessarily mean it will work in different sizes.
The thumb pocket on the G400 is a very bad idea I personally find way worse than the pinky ledge.
It forces your thumb off-axis with the pinky making small movements inconsistent.
To do accurate 1 count movements I put my thumb on the lower ridge, but it doesn't work well for regular play.


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luminair*
> 
> Congratulations! What I'd like to see from Logitech is more consistency. We've got so many products with so many differences that aren't on the box. Different clicks on buttons, different feels on scroll wheels, different feet, different designs at different sizes, different materials...
> 
> For example, look at hand size. The big mouse and the small mouse don't just vary by size, they vary by EVERYTHING. I can't get a small g403, but if I like the g pro, I can't get a g pro with the clicks of a g403. I would like all the differences to make sense rather than be random. When you buy a Zowie you know you are getting the same mouse for a different hand size. One of my pet peeves is mouse feet. Ideally there would be 4 circles, one in each corner. But every mouse has totally different mouse feet which changes how each mouse feels and wears down on different mouse pads. Form vs function, and I want my hardware to be function
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of form vs function, some mice have convex sides and some have concave sides. If the ergonomics community knows which one works best, I wish we would do that and stick to it. Mouseman+, MX518, and Roccat Kone Pure are generations apart but all have the same comfortable concave thumb side. G Pro has a convex thumb side. I don't know which is better, but I wish we could stick to what is.
> 
> And speaking of Mouseman+, he is ready for his reintroduction Mr. Pate! There will never be a better side button than the one you can click without moving your thumb, by just rolling it instead!
> 
> It's also worth considering that there are multiple different ways to hold a mouse, and the designers know this and design different mice to be held differently, but nobody ever writes this down on a website or on a box, and these two groups of people never communicate. The G900 feels amazing in 1-3-1 grip because of the curved sides which let you pick it up and maneuver it with just 2 fingers while also using 7 inputs with 3 fingers on top. But nobody ever told me that.
> 
> I hope you continue listening to the mouse experts online when they complain about defects like rattly parts. But I also hope you listen to their persistent complaints over the years, including those about stiff cables and stiff clicks. I can forgive manufacturing problems at the start, but I was surprised to read that the brand new mice had really hard middle button clicks and stiff cables. These are design problems and shouldn't have happened in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck in your new position, and thanks again for reading the forums!


Most of what you wrote is personal preference and you can't fit all that on a box. I like to think the changes from mouse to mouse are subtle improvements or experiments, which is fine imo!


----------



## nhc511

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I was bored and decided to try and reduce the weight. It was only $35, so why not?
> 
> Tools used: Mini wire snip to snip plastic and a 1/4 chisel to scrape out plastic left behind.
> 
> Hi-res: http://i.imgur.com/oWm7rM4.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Snipped a bunch of excess plastic, removed some screws (5 total), and removed the DPI button (never used it, only use 1 dpi). It functions and feels exactly like it did before, so it doesn't lose any functionality (unless you need dpi button) or feel weird.
> 
> Don't have a scale, but it feels a small bit heavier than a G100s with weight removed now.


I dont get it, did u remove the white plastic?


----------



## Luminair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justnvc*
> 
> Most of what you wrote is personal preference and you can't fit all that on a box.


I don't think so. When you buy a jacket and the tag says "men's large", that's two different size metrics and a design style.

Some companies go even further than that. An Arcteryx "Thorium SV Hoody" tells you another style of the jacket (the name "Thorium"), the amount of insulation (SV for thick), and an optional feature present (Hoody). Furthermore, on the website and the card attached to the jacket in the store, you can see the width ("athletic" for thin), whether or not it covers your butt ("thigh length"), the materials it's made of (polyester fiber, nylon, and 750 fill density goose down), and the presence of a rare "box wall" baffle design which reduces air leakage. These details are consistent across their product lines, printed materials, and website.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luminair*
> 
> I don't think so. When you buy a jacket and the tag says "men's large", that's two different size metrics and a design style.
> 
> Some companies go even further than that. An Arcteryx "Thorium SV Hoody" tells you another style of the jacket (the name "Thorium"), the amount of insulation (SV for thick), and an optional feature present (Hoody). Furthermore, on the website and the card attached to the jacket in the store, you can see the width ("athletic" for thin), whether or not it covers your butt ("thigh length"), the materials it's made of (polyester fiber, nylon, and 750 fill density goose down), and the presence of a rare "box wall" baffle design which reduces air leakage. These details are consistent across their product lines, printed materials, and website.


It's not gonna work with mice, too many differences from shell to shell. Although it's already present in some form, i.e. "12000 DPI optical gaming mouse".


----------



## ProPipe

Hey, is there anywhere to buy this mouse, more specifically in white. I don't see it in stock anymore and I was just about to order it from newegg. All I see are the IC pc bang versions.


----------



## Some Tech Nub

PC bang mice are the same though, just no retail packaging.


----------



## Tb1344

Anybody interested in a white one? Used it off and on for a week, but it's just too small for me. I don't have original packaging or anything, just the mouse.


----------



## ProPipe

Im pretty sure the pc bang mice have different clicks and coating compared to non pc bang


----------



## kashim

Guys i m coming from g502 to nixeus revel for the light weight and ambi shape..i have 19x9cm hands with claw grip...i love the mouse!!!feel che ap and with low quality but weight and ambi shape are awesome...then now i don t know if is better Hold it or send it back on amazon for refund and buy g102...i m scared by size and don t know which is better for

- click latency and feeling(faster or better)

- sensor

- build quality

Ty


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> Guys i m coming from g502 to nixeus revel for the light weight and ambi shape..i have 19x9cm hands with claw grip...i love the mouse!!!feel che ap and with low quality but weight and ambi shape are awesome...then now i don t know if is better Hold it or send it back on amazon for refund and buy g102...i m scared by size and don t know which is better for
> 
> - click latency and feeling(faster or better)
> 
> - sensor
> 
> - build quality
> 
> Ty


Sensor is almost as good as the one in the Revel (really hard to feel a difference). Build quality, Click latency etc is better on the Logitech. But Shape is the most important thing. So if you are happy, keep it. If not, try the Logitech and send it back if it does not suit you


----------



## HotCheetos333

Did you keep the plastic snips?

Weighing that would be interesting


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> Sensor is almost as good as the one in the Revel (really hard to feel a difference). Build quality, Click latency etc is better on the Logitech. But Shape is the most important thing. So if you are happy, keep it. If not, try the Logitech and send it back if it does not suit you


i think to oredr g203 too and send back the baddest of 2...is a good choice?


----------



## Ahnnn

I'm able to get this mouse for 16.45$ , to potentially replace my FK1 , worth?


----------



## wareya

yes


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> yes


+1...
is owrth order g203 on amazon and try it with nixeus for send back the baddest? and refound


----------



## subreach87

my g100s died and i was going through the motions of warranty through logitech, they dont have any g100s to send me, I was hoping they'd send me a g203 or 102(definitely would've paid the difference somehow). nope , looks like im getting a g300s(what am I going to do with this infernal shape?) *kicks dust*

I hate you if you're reading this logitech.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> my g100s died and i was going through the motions of warranty through logitech, they dont have any g100s to send me, I was hoping they'd send me a g203 or 102(definitely would've paid the difference somehow). nope , looks like im getting a g300s(what am I going to do with this infernal shape?) *kicks dust*


Sell that junk and put it towards a 102 or 203


----------



## wareya

Send them a very angry email about RSI and demand that they take it back and send you a different shape. RMA replacements have to be usable. :^)


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Sell that junk and put it towards a 102 or 203


i actually have bought nixeus revel on amazon and love it(but feel cheap),is worth buy g 102 on amazon too and send back the baddest?i have 19x9cm hands claw gripper


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> my g100s died and i was going through the motions of warranty through logitech, they dont have any g100s to send me, I was hoping they'd send me a g203 or 102(definitely would've paid the difference somehow). nope , looks like im getting a g300s(what am I going to do with this infernal shape?) *kicks dust*
> 
> I hate you if you're reading this logitech.


I would call them up and demand a suitable replacement. I would demand a G203 as Logitech themselves state that the G203 is meant to be a G100s replacement. Also the MSRP of the G203 and the G300S is the same, so I don't see why they would say no.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i actually have bought nixeus revel on amazon and love it(but feel cheap),is worth buy g 102 on amazon too and send back the baddest?i have 19x9cm hands claw gripper


Yes


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> i actually have bought nixeus revel on amazon and love it(but feel cheap),is worth buy g 102 on amazon too and send back the baddest?i have 19x9cm hands claw gripper


Not worth the hassle to buy a G102/G203/G Pro, if you hold your mice so that your fingers are on the buttons. Because the buttons will then just misclick by the weight of your finger.



This is the grip style Logitech apparently intended while designing the mice


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> s worth buy g 102 on amazon too and send back the baddest?i have 19x9cm hands claw gripper


Can't claw it properly with similar hand size. Also, misclicks during mundane browsing.

For palming it would be fine.


----------



## subreach87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> I would call them up and demand a suitable replacement. I would demand a G203 as Logitech themselves state that the G203 is meant to be a G100s replacement. Also the MSRP of the G203 and the G300S is the same, so I don't see why they would say no.


I told them that yesterday, they said "the g300s is the best I can do".

edit* I called them again today, got a much more reasonable representative this time around, 203 is on its way


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Not worth the hassle to buy a G102/G203/G Pro, if you hold your mice so that your fingers are on the buttons. Because the buttons will then just misclick by the weight of your finger.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the grip style Logitech apparently intended while designing the mice


this grip is so angled,my is more relaxed...like Ino
http://imgur.com/gv6djbf
but i have the left finger more clawed and right less ^^


----------



## daniel0731ex

Just gently remove the tensioning springs. Now the clicks feel like the G9 left click.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> I told them that yesterday, they said "the g300s is the best I can do".
> 
> edit* I called them again today, got a much more reasonable representative this time around, 203 is on its way


Glad to hear. When it comes to technical support, sometimes you have to keep calling until you get someone who actually cares.


----------



## Jinto

G203 came yesterday via Amazon. Out of the box the finish was pristine, left and right click FINALLY symmetrical for once. Mouse 4 & 5 also even with same tolerance. And most of all, mouse 3/scrolll wheel is easy to press and smooth to scroll. Rubber cable is welcomed too. How is it that I went through three G Pro mice and none of them could be near perfect out of the box like this "budget mouse" seemed to? *** Logitech?


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinto*
> 
> G203 came yesterday via Amazon. Out of the box the finish was pristine, left and right click FINALLY symmetrical for once. Mouse 4 & 5 also even with same tolerance. And most of all, mouse 3/scrolll wheel is easy to press and smooth to scroll. Rubber cable is welcomed too. How is it that I went through three G Pro mice and none of them could be near perfect out of the box like this "budget mouse" seemed to? *** Logitech?


Buying mouse nowadays is like buying lottery. You just used up your lifetime luck for mouse, cherish it D


----------



## wareya

I had the same experience though


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> this grip is so angled,my is more relaxed...like Ino
> http://imgur.com/gv6djbf
> but i have the left finger more clawed and right less ^^


any help please?with that grip i can use the g203 properly?


----------



## Kirisu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> any help please?with that grip i can use the g203 properly?


That's the grip I use and I have no problem with the mouse. But you need to give it a try. It's hard to tell from a picture.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinto*
> 
> Out of the box the finish was pristine


does it have coating at all? i don't think this has been confirmed yet by a purchaser


----------



## imdavidboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> does it have coating at all? i don't think this has been confirmed yet by a purchaser


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Pro has a matte clear coat on G logo area (knuckle rest) and main keys. G102 does not.


I assume since they said the G203 and G102 are the same that it doesn't have any coat.


----------



## subreach87

The logitech gaming software isnt picking up the g203 I got, what do?

edit * fixed it by "running as administrator when opening it.. okay then"


----------



## subreach87

yea I cannot for the life of me get a good grip on this mouse. It feels like a boat compared to the g100s, the grip is wider. The front doesnt slope deep as much as the g100s. I think its a high quality feeling mouse that punches above its market value, the sensor is wicked but it took a step back in shape for me. Its a really fine mouse but not for me.


----------



## Neshy414

So i've been switching between this mouse and my G-Pro for a month or so now, and i'm absolutely positive that this Mercury sensor is more responsive than the 3366 in my G-Pro, and that's even though the real DPI of the Mercury is a tad lower (On DPI setting 400: ~410 G102 - ~440 G-Pro), so that is not the cause as i had initially suspected.

I don't know if my G-Pro is just having some issues or something but considering my G403 feels pretty much identical to the Pro i doubt that is the case. Granted the 403 could just feel a bit less responsive because the shape is a bit alien to me and the weight is a bit higher.
So i tested the G102 against my 3360 Nixeus Revel as well which is probably my favourite mouse comfort wise. And again the G102 felt that little bit more responsive, but in this case it could just be the superior Hotline mousefeet and Paracord cable on the G102 that made the difference.

Either way the only apples to apples comparison i can make is against the G-Pro, which is on identical mouse feet, also has a Paracord cable equipped, and appears to work as intended. And in that case i have to say that i prefer the Mercury sensor of the G102.

Another couple interesting things i found; when i tested this i thought that the Revel was more responsive than both my 3366 Logitech's as well.
And that was something i immediately felt when i got those Logitechs, both of them felt like they had a fair amount of input delay added. Wasn't so much noticeable in fast swipes but precision movement felt sluggish. At first i shrugged it off as new gear paranoia, but now that i've gone back and forth between these mice with some significant amount of time put into either i can still feel it. I also checked the mouse rates using that Zowie web tool, and it came out looking normal. But then maybe this is normal considering i heard a few people here complaining about worse aim with 3366's, could be that it's just not a sensor for me.

Anyway just rambling now so i'll stop, still would be nice if someone could confirm this. I found it most noticeable in CSGO as i rarely need to be as precise in the other shooters i play so i usually notice if something wrong in CSGO first, but i also saw or rather felt it with the cursor just on the desktop when performing very slow movements.


----------



## hammelgammler

I'm very interested in the difference coatings, could someone who got both try to explain how they differ?

I tried to use the G Pro, and the shape was pretty nice, but it was just too slippery with sweaty hands, maybe that's because of the coating? Because I don't have nearly as much problems with the G100s or G1.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> So i've been switching between this mouse and my G-Pro for a month or so now, and i'm absolutely positive that this Mercury sensor is more responsive than the 3366 in my G-Pro, and that's even though the real DPI of the Mercury is a tad lower (On DPI setting 400: ~410 G102 - ~440 G-Pro), so that is not the cause as i had initially suspected.
> 
> I don't know if my G-Pro is just having some issues or something but considering my G403 feels pretty much identical to the Pro i doubt that is the case. Granted the 403 could just feel a bit less responsive because the shape is a bit alien to me and the weight is a bit higher.
> So i tested the G102 against my 3360 Nixeus Revel as well which is probably my favourite mouse comfort wise. And again the G102 felt that little bit more responsive, but in this case it could just be the superior Hotline mousefeet and Paracord cable on the G102 that made the difference.
> 
> Either way the only apples to apples comparison i can make is against the G-Pro, which is on identical mouse feet, also has a Paracord cable equipped, and appears to work as intended. And in that case i have to say that i prefer the Mercury sensor of the G102.
> 
> Another couple interesting things i found; when i tested this i thought that the Revel was more responsive than both my 3366 Logitech's as well.
> And that was something i immediately felt when i got those Logitechs, both of them felt like they had a fair amount of input delay added. Wasn't so much noticeable in fast swipes but precision movement felt sluggish. At first i shrugged it off as new gear paranoia, but now that i've gone back and forth between these mice with some significant amount of time put into either i can still feel it. I also checked the mouse rates using that Zowie web tool, and it came out looking normal. But then maybe this is normal considering i heard a few people here complaining about worse aim with 3366's, could be that it's just not a sensor for me.
> 
> Anyway just rambling now so i'll stop, still would be nice if someone could confirm this. I found it most noticeable in CSGO as i rarely need to be as precise in the other shooters i play so i usually notice if something wrong in CSGO first, but i also saw or rather felt it with the cursor just on the desktop when performing very slow movements.


nice man...i m stuck between g102 and nixeus revel...i have bought revel and tested it for 1 week and i love it (my handsize 19x10cm and relaxed claw grip)...but i wanna ask you a question, is g102 better in perfomance then revel?

- click latency

- build quality

- sensor

- polling rate stability

- cord

- mousefeet (i probably buy hyoperglide or hotline anyway)

ty for the help,i really hope u answer me soon because you are the only one i know had tested both


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I'm very interested in the difference coatings, could someone who got both try to explain how they differ?
> 
> I tried to use the G Pro, and the shape was pretty nice, but it was just too slippery with sweaty hands, maybe that's because of the coating? Because I don't have nearly as much problems with the G100s or G1.


They feel almost identical when new, the G102 is missing UV coating and will get smooth with time. Pretty short time as well, after a month or so of use the top shell is already shiny where my fingers an palm rest which is rather annoying. The bottom shell still looks just as good that of my G-Pro though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> nice man...i m stuck between g102 and nixeus revel...i have bought revel and tested it for 1 week and i love it (my handsize 19x10cm and relaxed claw grip)...but i wanna ask you a question, is g102 better in perfomance then revel?
> 
> - click latency
> 
> - build quality
> 
> - sensor
> 
> - polling rate stability
> 
> - cord
> 
> - mousefeet (i probably buy hyoperglide or hotline anyway)
> 
> ty for the help,i really hope u answer me soon because you are the only one i know had tested both


- Click latency: According to this chart, a little lower on the G102. In the real world though i don't really notice a difference.

- Build quality: Fairly good, i'd say a bit better than my Revel, mouse wheel, main buttons, and side buttons are better on the Logitech mice. Non of the have any noticeable rattle, but the Logitechs due to having the buttons separated from the shell make a bit of noise when putting the mouse down on the pad, but as soon as your fingers rest on them that noise disappears. Also as i mentioned above the G102's shell is missing UV coating and will get shiny pretty quickly.
(I don't think it will be a massive issue, but the switches of the G102 are 5million Omrons instead of the 20millions in the Revel, and they feel and sound a little less tactile.)

- Polling rate stability: Only checked it through Zowie's web tool and seemed stable to me.

- Cord: I'd give it to the Revel, both are rubberised but the Revel's is a little more flexible, feels more like a Zowie cable. Not a massive difference though.

- Mousefeet: Yeah get Hotlines or Hyperglides, i have Hotlines on mine and they definitely feel better than stock.

If you want to buy this mouse, remember that the G203 is identical and might be easier to get depending on your location.


----------



## kashim

i have bought glossy revel and hate the surface,and actually have bought g203,coming this week


----------



## kashim

then for u they have same performance?g203 is a little better but the only difference is shell?


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kashim*
> 
> then for u they have same performance?g203 is a little better but the only difference is shell?


Yeah as i said i slightly prefer the sensor to the 3360/66, shape wise the Revel is a tad more comfortable but i like them both regardless. Don't think you could really go wrong with either of them.


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> Yeah as i said i slightly prefer the sensor to the 3360/66, shape wise the Revel is a tad more comfortable but i like them both regardless. Don't think you could really go wrong with either of them.


my g203 come in this week...if i can grip it properly i ll send back my nixeus revel


----------



## karod

My G203 has the same surface as the G102 had. Smooth matte plastic.
But the mouse buttons already are oily from sweaty fingers. One rub with microfiber cloth and the shine is gone though.


----------



## racer11

Two quick questions. Does the G102 use the same internal cable connector as all other logitech mice (have a paracord for G303 lying around, want to make sure it fits before buying a new G102)? Can I apply G Pro feet on it? Thanks for answering.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *racer11*
> 
> Two quick questions. Does the G102 use the same internal cable connector as all other logitech mice (have a paracord for G303 lying around, want to make sure it fits before buying a new G102)? Can I apply G Pro feet on it? Thanks for answering.


Yep, same internal cable connection as the G Pro and probably the majority of Logitech's mice. Hyperglide G Pro skates work perfectly. G102 shell is the exact same as the G Pro (you can swap internals with no issues).

Edit: the rubber cable that comes with the G102 is probably the best stock cable that Logitech has put on any of their mice.


----------



## costilletas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Edit: the rubber cable that comes with the G102 is probably the best stock cable that Logitech has put on any of their mice.


Which means almost acceptable?


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *costilletas*
> 
> Which means almost acceptable?


Haha, guess it depends what you feel is acceptable.
For example, if you consider the Zowie cables are considered 'acceptable', then the G102 cable would be 'almost acceptable'


----------



## Ahnnn

I'm quite surprised that a mouse this cheap can perform just as good if not better than the FK1 that I have , pretty much worth every penny spent. Build quality is great as well , wire is flexible but zowie is just slightly more flexible. Though I did put it inside my bag after I've unboxed it and somehow the fabric of my bag rubbed off some of the coating on top , not sure if its coating or not though. Its pretty visible under reflections.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> So i've been switching between this mouse and my G-Pro for a month or so now, and i'm absolutely positive that this Mercury sensor is more responsive than the 3366 in my G-Pro...


Nah man, mercury sensor is all over the place, you could put the 3366 in a soda can an it will still make a better mouse. =D
I switched to the g303 after a week of g102. Beat my training_aim record and ranked up in two days. =P

This kinda reminds me of those few who preferred the am010 to the 3366...
Heck some people even swore by the FM 3310 implementation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> . I also checked the mouse rates using that Zowie web tool


May I ask you why you are using an online proprietary tool to do something (useless) like that?
Btw, I just tried it and it's horrible.
Use: Mouse Movement Recorder, dimr, mouserate, or, if you want more precision, mousetester.
Anyway there are no issues with polling on these mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I'm very interested in the difference coatings, could someone who got both try to explain how they differ?
> 
> I tried to use the G Pro, and the shape was pretty nice, but it was just too slippery with sweaty hands, maybe that's because of the coating? Because I don't have nearly as much problems with the G100s or G1.


G 102 has no coating, just rough plastic. Way grippier than the G1 smooth plastic sides.


----------



## pran

I just got the mouse and I'm unable to get it recognized by the Logitech Gaming Software. I tried running as administrator and also installed the newest version from the Logitech website. What else can I try?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> I just got the mouse and I'm unable to get it recognized by the Logitech Gaming Software. I tried running as administrator and also installed the newest version from the Logitech website. What else can I try?


Remove the device drivers using usbdeview


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Remove the device drivers using usbdeview


Still not working


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Still not working


I'm stumped. 8.91.48 is the one you're using, yes?


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I'm stumped. 8.91.48 is the one you're using, yes?


Driver version? no, that's 10.0.14393.0 - how do I get to 8.91.48?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Driver version? no, that's 10.0.14393.0 - how do I get to 8.91.48?


Software or mouse firmware? I was meaning LGS


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Software or mouse firmware? I was meaning LGS


Ah yeah. Just re-downloaded it and still not working.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Ah yeah. Just re-downloaded it and still not working.


Fully stumped. Logitech support? Return and replace?


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Fully stumped. Logitech support? Return and replace?


Got it off of ebay - should I just return it or will Logitech handle the case?


----------



## Melan

Worth a try, but my guess is Logitech won't bother with ebay purchase.


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Got it off of ebay - should I just return it or will Logitech handle the case?


Tried doing it on other usb ports or computers yet?


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Got it off of ebay - should I just return it or will Logitech handle the case?


They won't handle the case, period, if you didn't buy from an approved/official distributor.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> They won't handle the case, period, if you didn't buy from an approved/official distributor.


I've had a G100s replaced that I bought on eBay. All I had to do was show proof with a receipt and they mailed me a new one.


----------



## wareya

That's customer support goodwill, not a normal return.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Dunno if anyone's pointed this out, but the DPI values in the G102 are slightly off.

400 - *386*
800 - *769*
1600 - *1533*
3200 - *3015*
6000 - *5722*

The G Pro had more accurate real DPI values:
400 - 400
800 - 800
1600 -1598
3200 - 3197
12000 - 11970

Also the switches are harder than on a G Pro

*GPRO:*
_LMB_:
Tip of button: 34g
At scrollwheel center: 58
_RMB_
Tip of button: 37g
At scrollwheel center: 54

*G102*
_LMB_
Tip of button: 48g
At scrollwheel center: 69
_RMB_
Tip of button: 51g
At scrollwheel center: 71

Wheel encoder is better on my G102. Has much crisper notches and a much lighter middle click


----------



## qsxcv

dpi varies from mouse to mouse of course, but yea, naively, i expect the g102 to vary more due to how the lens is less secure.

switches:
well i have 2 g pros and 2 g102s and they're all a bit different.
g302/g303 switches were surely more consistent

wheel:
fairly sure the notches will become less crisp after a month or so of daily usage


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> dpi varies from mouse to mouse of course, but yea, naively, i expect the g102 to vary more due to how the lens is less secure.
> 
> switches:
> well i have 2 g pros and 2 g102s and they're all a bit different.
> g302/g303 switches were surely more consistent
> 
> wheel:
> fairly sure the notches will become less crisp after a month or so of daily usage


As for DPI - I've already had 4 or 5 mice with a 3366 and mostly they have been very accurate in terms of real dpi values.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wheel:
> fairly sure the notches will become less crisp after a month or so of daily usage


What encoder does it use? Can it be changed to an Alps?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> What encoder does it use? Can it be changed to an Alps?


Uses a kaihl encoder.

Yes, it can be changed/ Just need to get the right height


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Uses a kaihl encoder.
> 
> Yes, it can be changed/ Just need to get the right height


Thank you!


----------



## syrell

how high is the lift off distance


----------



## RealSteelH6

Around 1mm on a Roccat Taito 2017


----------



## wareya

As in actually around 1mm, not under 1mm. I don't get problems tracking when I turn directions with the g203 (g102) like I do with mice that have sub-1mm LOD.


----------



## M1st

I have several questions about G102 PCB, if someone has it disassembled.

1. What is the width of main PCB?
2. Is it compatible with G Pro PCB in terms of position of screw holes, switches and scroll wheel?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> I have several questions about G102 PCB, if someone has it disassembled.
> 
> 1. What is the width of main PCB?
> 2. Is it compatible with G Pro PCB in terms of position of screw holes, switches and scroll wheel?


2. The shell of the G Pro and G102(G203) are completely the same inside and out. The PCB's are the same size also and you can swap them between the two shells freely as they are.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> 2. The shell of the G Pro and G102(G203) are completely the same inside and out. The PCB's are the same size also and you can swap them between the two shells freely as they are.


Thanks!
But what about bottom plate? I mean the size and shape of Mercury lens seem different from 3366's lens.


----------



## Melan

Lens is attached to the sensor casing. G102/203 use the same base as G Pro, that means it has grooves for 9x00/336x lens.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Lens is attached to the sensor casing. G102/203 use the same base as G Pro, that means it has grooves for 9x00/336x lens.


KK thanks, looks like i'm buying G102.


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Ive swapped a 3366** into the bottom shell of the g102 no issues at all compeltely the same

(sorry for the errors)


----------



## mike864

My new G Pro with G102 White case
Paracord Cable
Hyperglide mouse skates
Hotline Sensor skate


----------



## the1freeMan

When you get stuff used off ebay, always ask the seller for the original receipt or a a picture of it.

As for real cpi, my g102 is along the same lines as 2shellbonus' and Ino's.


----------



## plath

weee my g102 arrived! looks and feels nice.

can't get logitech's gaming software to work on my windows 10 pc though.

i'm getting this msvcp120.dll error:

http://i.imgur.com/l11XvsZ.png


----------



## noibat2

Good night!

My hand size is 17.5x9 cm and I use a hybrid palm/claw grip, using two finger in RMB(middle and ring).

Anyone has the same grip style?

The g102 would be a good choice?


----------



## kashim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noibat2*
> 
> Good night!
> 
> My hand size is 17.5x9 cm and I use a hybrid palm/claw grip, using two finger in RMB(middle and ring).
> 
> Anyone has the same grip style?
> 
> The g102 would be a good choice?


for your hand size i think is the better mouse out here


----------



## plath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plath*
> 
> weee my g102 arrived! looks and feels nice.
> 
> can't get logitech's gaming software to work on my windows 10 pc though.
> 
> i'm getting this error:
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/l11XvsZ.png


ok i fixed my issue with logitech gaming services quick. after reading here: http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/492379439677817653/#c492379439677871714

you need both x86 and x64 versions of Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable Packages for Visual Studio 2013. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2977003/the-latest-supported-visual-c-downloads

side by side pic: http://i.imgur.com/PPRnjYQ.jpg



i'm enjoying the feel in my hand. maybe it's a placebo but the sensor feels more responsive and accurate in my hand when i play CSGO. this is my new everyday mouse.

feels like good quality too. firm clicks. lmb/rmb is louder than my other mice though.

the changing color RGBs is nice too. normally i'm that guy who hates all "gaming products" but it's pretty neat. shame there's no way you can assign to click the RGB off though.

I want to change my DPI shift button into RGB off switch, but i can't.


----------



## seaweeed

So whats the latest verdict on the sensor? Has there been any in depth comparison tests after all this time? Especially smoothing and angle snapping, srav im satisfied with.


----------



## edward236

my feeling
Tracking delay g102> g100s
Other people feel the delay?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edward236*
> 
> my feeling
> Tracking delay g102> g100s
> Other people feel the delay?


I'm pretty sure noone felt anything like this, maybe you have a faulty product?


----------



## Evgennius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edward236*
> 
> my feeling
> Tracking delay g102> g100s
> 
> Other people feel the delay?


How exactly do you measure your delay? If "by feel" is the answer then it's probably a placebo effect. (I have both g100s and 102 and notice no difference in day to day tasks and occasional games including fps)


----------



## Gonzalez07

i dont know how to embed youtube but has anyone seen this guys channel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wS0iRn3Brg

not sure how accurate his method is or if he ever finished his test


----------



## edward236

I changed the plastic mouse pad no problem
I do not know why the cloth pad will feel delayed


----------



## kiler4fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnKkWJs49aQ

Just thought you guys would like to watch my review on it ^^ Really enjoying this mouse


----------



## ncck

I ordered a g203 and hypers.. so I've got that coming. I mean the price and rubber cable I had to do it. Heard the sensor was pretty good too

Also what do you mean angle snapping? That's disabled by default and can be enabled in lgs if you want


----------



## Melan

G102/G203 has angle snapping either way it seems. Not sure how aggressive it is though.


----------



## the1freeMan

It's not technically angle snapping but it does feel like like you're more "guided" in doing straighter lines compared to a 3366.
It's actually very light, but if you're nitpicking for the best possible mouse it will be noticeable if you're used to a 3366.

No option in lgs btw


paint test is not the best, but should give an idea


----------



## cdcd

Would I get full warranty from Logitech when ordering from here?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> G102/G203 has angle snapping either way it seems. Not sure how aggressive it is though.


Ah I was unaware. Is it super noticeable?


----------



## wareya

No. The mouse basically can't keep track of very small motions on axis A when it's moving slowly on axis B and even slower on axis A. It doesn't come into play during normal motion, and there's no specific range of "angles" that snaps to being axial. You can think of it like angle snapping that's stronger when the mouse is barely moving, but it's still a bad way of thinking about it.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> No. The mouse basically can't keep track of very small motions on axis A when it's moving slowly on axis B and even slower on axis A. It doesn't come into play during normal motion, and there's no specific range of "angles" that snaps to being axial. You can think of it like angle snapping that's stronger when the mouse is barely moving, but it's still a bad way of thinking about it.


So I shouldn't have any noticeable affect in-game (in any game) coming from either 3310/3366.. I mean I guess I'll figure out in a week or so when I use it but if it's something that is so minuscule I wouldn't see it during normal gameplay then I'm fine. Thanks for the info though - wonder why they have it that way.

I tried angle snapping (like the actual setting) and wasn't very fond of it. I forget which mouse but it was very pronounced and was clearly steering my cursor movement straight

@CD

You'd have to contact logitech support or a social media page and ask them if their warranty is transferable - because by buying through eBay 3rd party seller you're essentially buying a product that someone else purchased - so they would have the warranty information from whatever re seller or official they purchased from - unless the product is stolen.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> You'd have to contact logitech support or a social media page and ask them if their warranty is transferable - because by buying through eBay 3rd party seller you're essentially buying a product that someone else purchased - so they would have the warranty information from whatever re seller or official they purchased from - unless the product is stolen.


Thanks. I'm gonna save myself the hassle and stick to my local retailer then (37,99€ there instead of 31,99€).


----------



## 508859

Got myself g203 just today, and here is my first impression

*Sensor*: very good in general, very snappy, comparable to the best ones. but I've found a disadvantage - I have a cat and sometimes it result in it's fur getting on the mousepad (Qck+ XL), it's not a lot, maybe few hairs here and there. So when those get under that lense - it freaks out immediately in a worst manner, points straight to the top as ****ty office sensors do sometimes.
I've even forgot when I've seen this last time and I had it with g203 2 times in a 3 hours gaming session. This might be a blocking point sticking to this mouse, but I will keep using it for 1-2 weeks to make my decision.
*Cable:* it's great that it's rubbed, but it is still thick and worse than zowie ones. Given the size of the mouse, it is noticeably dragging on my mousepad, it is not great at all. Might be better if it would be braided, so I could de-braid it to get it thinner







you can see on a picture that its thicker than de-braided cable of kana, as thick as microsoft optical blue, but blue cable feels more flexible.


*Buttons:* the most soft clicks that I've seen, after kana and ravel I had to get used to unintentional clicks at first. but then it was fine and I had no problems.

I'm not picky in terms of *side buttons and scroll*, but they are both meh in my opinion.

*Shape and coating* are quite safe, for small-medium hands, the angle of edges is not very convenient as I'm more used to the straight ones.

Overall it is a great mouse for this price, but I think my aim would be better with less interferences of kana v2.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So I shouldn't have any noticeable affect in-game (in any game) coming from either 3310/3366..


I repeat, it does.
I sometimes go back to the G102 just for the shape but I can't play with it.
Diagonal movement doesn't feel right.


----------



## Woz_Ginge

I've started to get back into Quakelive and I'm currently using the KPM with a 3310 sensor. I don't know if its just me but this mouse feels all over the place sometimes. There feels like a delay to what I do and what I see on the screen.

I've had a g102 on my shelf for about 3 months boxed up. Tried the shape in my hand without connecting it to the PC and made a snap decision that it wasn't for me. I have put it on a forum for sale but if this sensor is a gem I might give it a second look.


----------



## Tarinth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woz_Ginge*
> 
> I've started to get back into Quakelive and I'm currently using the KPM with a 3310 sensor. I don't know if its just me but this mouse feels all over the place sometimes. There feels like a delay to what I do and what I see on the screen.
> 
> I've had a g102 on my shelf for about 3 months boxed up. Tried the shape in my hand without connecting it to the PC and made a snap decision that it wasn't for me. I have put it on a forum for sale but if this sensor is a gem I might give it a second look.


The Kone Pure 2017 will come out in april. I suggest you to stick with the KPM until then. :^)


----------



## ncck

Yeah I've been using the g203 for a day or two now still trying to get used to it. My general thought is it's extremely similar to the G Pro. The cable is better however - not the best but a lot better. It still has a little 'resistance' because the stress reliever is very long.

Sensor wise the mercury sensor seems pretty good, from an honest perspective if you were to decide between a 203 and a g pro, I'd say I do not see a single reason to get the G Pro over it. The 3366 is not 'so much better' than this mercury sensor to warrant the price change. I'm waiting for some hyperglides cause the stock skates are still very poor on these new logi mice. I don't know what they made them out of but the skates that I've seen on the G403, G Pro, and G203 are not the same skates that are on my old G303 - not saying the G303 skates are amazing but it's clear they're made differently somehow cause my G303 glides way better than these new skates.

As for 'angle snapping' I mean the sensor feels different and some users said the sensor has built in snapping - but in actual usage.. heck even in using it in paint I couldn't seem to notice any intense snapping compared to actually using the setting on other mice or even on a logitech mice - it's not like the old G400 (I believe?) where it had some very obvious snapping. So for those who actually like the G pro shape or are just interested please save yourself some money and get the 203 or 102 depending on your region. You even get a rubber cable.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> I repeat, it does.
> I sometimes go back to the G102 just for the shape but I can't play with it.
> Diagonal movement doesn't feel right.


It doesn't affect diagonal movement at all. It only affects borderline axial movement. If diagonal movement feels wrong then the reason is positively something other than the sensor, possibly even placebo.

Well, the novel tracking stuff it does could affect surface compatibility. Who knows? Still not because of "angle snapping".


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> It doesn't affect diagonal movement at all. It only affects borderline axial movement. If diagonal movement feels wrong then the reason is positively something other than the sensor, possibly even placebo.
> 
> Well, the novel tracking stuff it does could affect surface compatibility. Who knows? Still not because of "angle snapping".


It gives me the sensation that changing direction at slow speed is sticky, that's what I mean with diagonals.
Example: You're tracking in one x direction than you want to slightly correct diagonally up or down.

What about surface compatibility? You mean that different surfaces might give a different feel in this regard because of the small movement quantization?


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> It gives me the sensation that changing direction at slow speed is sticky, that's what I mean with diagonals.
> Example: You're tracking in one x direction than you want to slightly correct diagonally up or down.


Yeah, it doesn't affect that so it shouldn't matter. If you want to move more than a couple pixels, then even at slow speeds you won't be able to feel the "snapping". How about this. Take a pixart/avago mouse like a 3366. Compare playing at 400dpi with raw input disabled and 6/11 windows sens, and playing at 1600dpi with raw input disabled and 3/11 or 2/11 windows sens (whichever one gives the same inches/360). If you can feel a difference between those at low speeds, then you're feeling the difference in how the position deadzone works (which all mice have some sort of, else they'd jitter at rest).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> What about surface compatibility? You mean that different surfaces might give a different feel in this regard because of the small movement quantization?


Yes.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> If you want to move more than a couple pixels


I'm talking single pixel deviation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Take a pixart/avago mouse like a 3366. Compare playing at 400dpi with raw input disabled and 6/11 windows sens, and playing at 1600dpi with raw input disabled and 3/11 or 2/11 windows sens (whichever one gives the same inches/360). If you can feel a difference between those at low speeds, then you're feeling the difference in how the position deadzone works (which all mice have some sort of, else they'd jitter at rest).


I used to be a huge advocate against <6/11 because it never felt right.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> I'm talking single pixel deviation.


Time to increase your dpi!
Quote:


> I used to be a huge advocate against <6/11 because it never felt right.


5/11 is bad but everything under it is "fine" again.


----------



## wareya

Actually, there is a particular sensor flaw the mercury has that you might be feeling too.


For some reason, on certain surfaces, the position function has ripple to it. It's not, like, moving tangential to the line. But the x and y positions have a ripple that goes out of sync, which is where the jagginess comes from, and why some sections are straight (x and y are in sync during the straight parts). It's unlike anything I've seen in pixart mice.

The mercury might be doing something to reduce SRAV (since a lot of SRAV reduction methods are partially patented) that has this kind of position ripple as a side effect. If you're operating at above 400(800?)dpi, then it's theoretically possible to feel this if you have the wrong kind of tracking surface. (I run at 1200dpi. Recommend multiples of 400.) Set the mouse to the maximum DPI possible and move slowly in a diagonal in paint or paint.net and see if it makes these diagonals.

Still, I think that if you're operating at a sensitivity where this will make you miss shots I would still not blame the mouse, since this ripple is physically finer than what you can expect to have good control of when physically moving the mouse. It basically just means that on certain surfaces the mouse acts like it has a lower DPI but that the axises aren't in sync. It could still contribute, of course.


----------



## ncck

Jeez that's crazy. I can't produce those kind of lines here on my surface or dpi. Have you taken that info to cpate or do you think they're aware


----------



## wareya

It's only with stuff like the surface of my graphics tablet, which is a pathologically bad mouse tracking surface.

I'm positive that it's a side effect of something that they did to work around something that they can't implement, and if they didn't do it, the mouse would perform worse rather than just making patterns on surfaces with bad compatibility.


----------



## the1freeMan

@wareya

Damn I noticed that at 800 cpi actually. 3366 stairsteps like all non mlt designs but I noticed it was worse on the mercury.

http://imgur.com/HQynGVm

upper 4 lines g303, lower 3 g102
both 6000cpi in artisan hien navy blue.

The major difference when drawing those lines was that the 102 tends to carry you in a specific direction when it deviates.
3366 ripples and goes back on track.
(not really that noticeable form the picture)

Anyway I did switch from 800 to 1200cpi for a period but in the end I went back to what I'm used to.

At the same cpi I find it easier to correct on my other mice.


----------



## wareya

The ripple I'm describing scales with DPI; at 1600dpi, each ripple is twice the "size" of the ripples of 800dpi, and at 800dpi each ripple should be two pixels max. If you're seeing that large a ripple at 800dpi, it has a different cause.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> The ripple I'm describing scales with DPI; at 1600dpi, each ripple is twice the "size" of the ripples of 800dpi, and at 800dpi each ripple should be two pixels max. If you're seeing that large a ripple at 800dpi, it has a different cause.


At the same cpi it's slightly more compared to the 3366.

The feel of it carrying in a certain direction is what bothers me most.

("fixed" the image)


----------



## wareya

This is the amount of ripple my g203 gets at 1200dpi:



You at worst see a couple one-pixel S shapes in this image. If you get more, you have a tracking surface with bad compatibility with optical sensors.


----------



## the1freeMan

I forgot to mention speed. That stuff happens when keeping report rate under 10Hz.
Drawing lines at 50-100Hz is perfectly normal.

Btw, tried another pad, same thing


----------



## wareya

I was moving extremely slowly in that image.

The only thing I did weird to my g203 is replace the stock feet entirely with some taken from cheap sub-10-dollar office mice and put teflon tape over them so it glides smoothly.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> I was moving extremely slowly in that image.
> 
> The only thing I did weird to my g203 is replace the stock feet entirely with some taken from cheap sub-10-dollar office mice and put teflon tape over them so it glides smoothly.


Yeah stock logi feet lol, first thing that goes out the window.
I tried putting the sensor foot back on but no difference.

Anyway it's really subtle. I'm actually getting used to it since I really enjoy the shape.
After changing up to 3 mice during the course of a single match I just gave up and settled for the comfortable one... too many years of compromising shape for sensor.

So yeah it's nothing "gamebreaking" but still it doesn't feel like a 3366, but just with less useless cpi, specially at first impact.
I wonder if the lower fps limit was higher...


----------



## Kalinski

What is difference between g102 ic and g102 non ic?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalinski*
> 
> What is difference between g102 ic and g102 non ic?


Technically nothing.


----------



## gene-z

I just got a white G102, so decided to try reducing the weight more on my black one to see how it would feel. This is with the LED assembly and side buttons removed. There's also the side buttons themselves and the plastic that holds them in place removed, but not pictured. And the plastic shaving I posted earlier in the thread. I only have the scroll-wheel and dpi button left. I thought I would just use it for a few days and then toss it in a drawer, but it feels so good.

The reduced weight relieves a lot of pressure from my thumb and makes it a lot more effortless to pickup from swipes. With the G100S, the sides just let my thumb rest there and picking it up from swiping feels a lot more balanced. With the stock G102, it feels like when I pick it up, a lot of the lifting gets distributed to my thumb from the weirdly angled sides and makes it uncomfortable. I can still even feel it with all the weight reduction, but it's very feint now.


----------



## Johan450

I felt like my thumb was getting stretched out a little after using it initially.

On a side note, getting it together straightly is awful, and the butt of the mouse creeks if its not on right. nearly stripped the screws on my black one opening and closing it. Reassembly the g100s was way easier.


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> @wareya
> The major difference when drawing those lines was that the 102 tends to carry you in a specific direction when it deviates.


Built in aimlock. What is the problem with that?


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Built in aimlock. What is the problem with that?


Ethics


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Actually, there is a particular sensor flaw the mercury has that you might be feeling too.
> 
> 
> For some reason, on certain surfaces, the position function has ripple to it. It's not, like, moving tangential to the line. But the x and y positions have a ripple that goes out of sync, which is where the jagginess comes from, and why some sections are straight (x and y are in sync during the straight parts). It's unlike anything I've seen in pixart mice.


i think i've seen similar with 3988 but moving at 20-30 deg angles instead of 45. the line would alternate between | and \

possibly 3090? don't quite remember

3366 certain never does that (on any surface i've tried.)


----------



## subreach87

something wrong with my setup or is this normal? 400dpi 1000hz all my mice do this so, mousepad maybe? razer goliathus.


----------



## wareya

mousepad.


----------



## Naf7

~ 7 - 10 cm semicircle. 1200 cpi 1000 Hz. Pad - Roccat hiro

g102.csv 122k .csv file



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://imgur.com/a/WEB73


----------



## cnnd

There's no feature to set up macro profiles for each games? Even G300s has that







This mouse is good though.


----------



## Gonzalez07

just got my g102. the middle click is so much easier to press compare to my g pro. even m1 and m2 have a nicer tactile feel whereas my g pro feels a bit more mushy... for $30 I would probably have just bought this over the pro. i still have yet to fully test out the sensor but from the little i did my accuracy didnt go down


----------



## Reoxy

Anyone ever have the sensor go wild while gaming? I had 2 times today that my character ingame just started spinning superfast. It could be hair in the sensor/mousepad since I have a cat and 2 dogs, but it never happened with my g502.


----------



## wareya

the sensor messes up if anything gets too close to it, you can test it by pressing your finger against the sensor hole

make sure your mousepad stays speckless


----------



## edward236

I found that the low speed was unstable when I used a cloth pad pad
Use a hard mouse pad to be more stable and better controlled


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reoxy*
> 
> Anyone ever have the sensor go wild while gaming? I had 2 times today that my character ingame just started spinning superfast. It could be hair in the sensor/mousepad since I have a cat and 2 dogs, but it never happened with my g502.


yup. have had it happen a couple of times
i keep my pad very clean though. but of course i can't rule out that it was some dirt, dust, hair, whatever. didn't check for it.
this was on a glass mousepad, but i'm not under the impression that that directly had anything to do with it.


----------



## khabme

I'm sorry for my English (Russian ******)

I have g102/G pro/g303/g403 wireless

All mouse have lens rattle problem (I prefer fix it using hot glue)
All mouse have ****ty feet. (Must be replaced)
Click is best on g102.. G Pro and G 303 have Fuzzy click, too soft.
Cable is best on g102... It has a low weight in comparison with g pro and g 303 (after debraiding ofcouse) CeeSa cable is not solution.. because CeeSa cable is VERY Soft, and when i do 180 or flick
I stumble upon my tail, this is annoying
Middle click lighter in comprasion with g pro and g303 (it's good for me)
.

it's best mouse for me after rattle fix. i use fintertip grip.
Pad = razer gigantus.

I hope this helps someone.


----------



## 508859

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reoxy*
> 
> Anyone ever have the sensor go wild while gaming? I had 2 times today that my character ingame just started spinning superfast. It could be hair in the sensor/mousepad since I have a cat and 2 dogs, but it never happened with my g502.


I had this few times in just one gaming session, it is completely unacceptable for a gaming mouse. had to RMA it


----------



## pruik6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khabme*
> 
> I'm sorry for my English (Russian ******)
> 
> I have g102/G pro/g303/g403 wireless
> 
> All mouse have lens rattle problem (I prefer fix it using hot glue)
> All mouse have ****ty feet. (Must be replaced)
> Click is best on g102.. G Pro and G 303 have Fuzzy click, too soft.
> Cable is best on g102... It has a low weight in comparison with g pro and g 303 (after debraiding ofcouse) CeeSa cable is not solution.. because CeeSa cable is VERY Soft, and when i do 180 or flick
> I stumble upon my tail, this is annoying
> Middle click lighter in comprasion with g pro and g303 (it's good for me)
> .
> 
> it's best mouse for me after rattle fix. i use fintertip grip.
> Pad = razer gigantus.
> 
> I hope this helps someone.


I have bad english aswell (netherlands ******)

But you are very cool, you like cool mice like me xD
I use G pro with Qck heavy or Razer gigantus ( not sure which to choose)

i cant replace mousefeet because G pro lift of distance is to low.
Any thick mousefeet not register my movement anymore, which mousefeet you bought?


----------



## edward236

I think G102 has low angle snapping,G102 smoothing enough to reduce jitter,So use angle snapping to prevent the mouse from jitter when stopped

Reduce the USB report rate, you can reduce the discarded DPI
Raising the DPI can also reduce the value that is discarded, but will improve the smoothing (delay)

I'm not sure but you can try it


----------



## edward236

correct
Will not quit any value, just do not send


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Any g100s fans who use this mouse as a replacement?

I'm debating internally on whether to open up my g100s and fix the LMB or to return it and (very likely) get a g203 as a replacement.

I can get a nice and secure grip on the g100s, so I'm a bit worried about how they changed the sides and whether I would like that. I'm not worried about cramping, I just don't want the mouse dancing around in my fingers too much. Those G203/Pro rounded sides seem like they're difficult to hold. Also, the G100s has this horizontal rounded bump near the center (whereas the G203/Pro is just a straight line throughout) that makes it comfortable to move the mouse vertically without having to exert too much pressure.

What's your experience regarding these changes? I heard a few "soapbar, impossible to hold" comments and I think I see where they're coming from.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> Any g100s fans who use this mouse as a replacement?
> 
> I'm debating internally on whether to open up my g100s and fix the LMB or to return it and (very likely) get a g203 as a replacement.
> 
> I can get a nice and secure grip on the g100s, so I'm a bit worried about how they changed the sides and whether I would like that. I'm not worried about cramping, I just don't want the mouse dancing around in my fingers too much. Those G203/Pro rounded sides seem like they're difficult to hold. Also, the G100s has this horizontal rounded bump near the center (whereas the G203/Pro is just a straight line throughout) that makes it comfortable to move the mouse vertically without having to exert too much pressure.
> 
> What's your experience regarding these changes? I heard a few "soapbar, impossible to hold" comments and I think I see where they're coming from.


I did for a while, but eventually gave up on the G102. I've tried 2-3 times giving it a few weeks each time, but it's just not for me and I gave up trying. The angled sides are just too awkward for me. But, after using the G102 for those long periods, I realized I hated the large, palm filling, hump of the G100S. I think my perfect mouse would ideally be the G100S sides with the height of the G102 with the GPRO sensor. Something like the G3 looks like a perfect shape:



I'm back on my FK1.


----------



## Hika

Im the only one enjoying the mouse , but having a feeling that the mouse at really slow movements behave in strange way ?

i play overwatch/ rainbow six siege at 400 dpi , and the really slow movement feels strange. ( but not a huge problem) then changed to 800 dpi to avoid pixel skipping.

the last mouse before this was a G303, works well but the G102 reminds me my old time mx300.

i use a pc glorius game race pad .

pardon my english.


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I did for a while, but eventually gave up on the G102. I've tried 2-3 times giving it a few weeks each time, but it's just not for me and I gave up trying. The angled sides are just too awkward for me. But, after using the G102 for those long periods, I realized I hated the large, palm filling, hump of the G100S. I think my perfect mouse would ideally be the G100S sides with the height of the G102 with the GPRO sensor. Something like the G3 looks like a perfect shape:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm back on my FK1.


I know exactly what you mean about the palm filling hump - assuming we're both talking about the horizontal bump. It bothered me slightly for the longest time because it made the mouse feel wider but I got used to it. Because of the way I hold it, it doesn't fill my palm - it doesn't even touch it actually, unless I intentionally force my palm into it. I put my thumb and ring finger exactly where the hump begins, so the hump actually helps with keeping my fingers in place. At least I think so, it may be less relevant than I'm assuming.

The g100s sides are angled as well, they're just not as curved as your G102. Do you find that curve was the issue?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> I know exactly what you mean about the palm filling hump - assuming we're both talking about the horizontal bump. It bothered me slightly for the longest time because it made the mouse feel wider but I got used to it. Because of the way I hold it, it doesn't fill my palm - it doesn't even touch it actually, unless I intentionally force my palm into it. I put my thumb and ring finger exactly where the hump begins, so the hump actually helps with keeping my fingers in place. At least I think so, it may be less relevant than I'm assuming.
> 
> The g100s sides are angled as well, they're just not as curved as your G102. Do you find that curve was the issue?


For me, the way the sides on the G102/GPRO are angled, it forces my thumb to support a good portion of the weight of the mouse. So I just like the rest my thumb on the side and it just feels off doing it. The way it's angled so steep, if you just rest your thumb there, only a small portion of my thumb makes contact with the plastic. To make up for that, I have to squeeze with thumb, or bend my thumb and claw grip the side. Then you have to also deal with the side buttons that are terribly placed, IMO. The G100s, I rest my thumb on the side, and my whole thumb just rests there.

When I pickup the G102, it feels unbalanced. Certain fingers are gripping stronger, looser, tighter, etc. When I pickup the G100s, my hand is relaxed and my grip feels very balanced. I don't feel any extra pressure on any fingers and they all feel like they're supporting an equal amount of weight. I just don't have that same feeling with the G102/GPRO.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> Any g100s fans who use this mouse as a replacement?
> 
> I'm debating internally on whether to open up my g100s and fix the LMB or to return it and (very likely) get a g203 as a replacement.
> 
> I can get a nice and secure grip on the g100s, so I'm a bit worried about how they changed the sides and whether I would like that. I'm not worried about cramping, I just don't want the mouse dancing around in my fingers too much. Those G203/Pro rounded sides seem like they're difficult to hold. Also, the G100s has this horizontal rounded bump near the center (whereas the G203/Pro is just a straight line throughout) that makes it comfortable to move the mouse vertically without having to exert too much pressure.
> 
> What's your experience regarding these changes? I heard a few "soapbar, impossible to hold" comments and I think I see where they're coming from.


Rival 100 is closer to the g100s feel. Now with the Rival 110 coming with a decent sensor, I know I'll be settled.

With the G203/Pro you also have to not overlook the fact that more than likely the RMB will press down from the weight of the finger, so its very uncomfortable to use the mouse.


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> For me, the way the sides on the G102/GPRO are angled, it forces my thumb to support a good portion of the weight of the mouse. So I just like the rest my thumb on the side and it just feels off doing it. The way it's angled so steep, if you just rest your thumb there, only a small portion of my thumb makes contact with the plastic. To make up for that, I have to squeeze with thumb, or bend my thumb and claw grip the side. Then you have to also deal with the side buttons that are terribly placed, IMO. The G100s, I rest my thumb on the side, and my whole thumb just rests there.
> 
> When I pickup the G102, it feels unbalanced. Certain fingers are gripping stronger, looser, tighter, etc. When I pickup the G100s, my hand is relaxed and my grip feels very balanced. I don't feel any extra pressure on any fingers and they all feel like they're supporting an equal amount of weight. I just don't have that same feeling with the G102/GPRO.


Goddamn, that sounds bad. Especially since I know exactly what you mean about the G100s. Just feels natural and comfortable.

How do you feel about the G303?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Rival 100 is closer to the g100s feel. Now with the Rival 110 coming with a decent sensor, I know I'll be settled.
> 
> With the G203/Pro you also have to not overlook the fact that more than likely the RMB will press down from the weight of the finger, so its very uncomfortable to use the mouse.


Rival 100 looks a lot like the Kinzu to me and I really don't like the Kinzu. I don't like fat butts on mice which is the primary reason I like the G100s so much.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> Goddamn, that sounds bad. Especially since I know exactly what you mean about the G100s. Just feels natural and comfortable.
> 
> How do you feel about the G303?


I don't remember much about the G303. What I do remember, is that it gave me hand pains almost daily. I didn't even think twice about giving it a second chance. It's a really aggressive shape and I wouldn't recommend it unless you grab it for $25 when it goes on sale, or test it before you buy at Best Buy.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> Rival 100 looks a lot like the Kinzu to me and I really don't like the Kinzu. I don't like fat butts on mice which is the primary reason I like the G100s so much.


If by Kinzu shape you mean Nixeus Revel shape, then I can say that it is nothing like that. I just bought the Revel in hopes of getting a 3360 "G100s", but it has this butt preventing me to use my hybrid fingertip grip, while Rival 100 is super comfortable and natural in hand without any restrictions. Just like the G100s.


----------



## trism

Rival 100 is pretty close to Kinzu. It's a bit bigger even. Revel is more closer to Sensei than Rival 100 or Kinzu. Rival 100 is not even close to the feel of G100s.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Rival 100 is pretty close to Kinzu. It's a bit bigger even. Revel is more closer to Sensei than Rival 100 or Kinzu. Rival 100 is not even close to the feel of G100s.


Well I am holding the Revel and Rival 100 right now, and the difference is massive in how it feels. Rival 100 allows the natural hybrid fingertip grip just like G100s and I don't feel restricted, while Revel doesn't, the butt gets in the way. The R100 is both shorter and has less height to it which makes the difference.

With my grip style the R100 is closer to the G100s than the G Pro is.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Well I am holding the Revel and Rival 100 right now, and the difference is massive in how it feels. Rival 100 allows the natural hybrid fingertip grip just like G100s and I don't feel restricted, while Revel doesn't, the butt gets in the way. The R100 is both shorter and has less height to it which makes the difference.
> 
> With my grip style the R100 is closer to the G100s than the G Pro is.


Yes, I said Revel is bigger than what Rival 100 is. I have Kinzu and Rival 100 here and they feel quite similar, Kinzu is just a bit smaller. Rival 100 has quite a wide butt but it isn't very "tall"









My point is: if you dislike the Kinzu (because of something being too _big_) then you will dislike the Rival 100 as well. However if you want a tiny bit bigger Kinzu, or something close to Kana, then Rival 100 is the shape for you.


----------



## subreach87

I ******* hate this shape, the g100s is infinitely better for me, buying a few g100s off ebay now.


----------



## ncck

Just tested the hypers for the g pro on the 203.. holy %[email protected] lmao.. what a night and day difference.

Too bad I don't like the shape. Hypers on a firm cloth pad is like complete glide free movement.. but not icy out of control. I'm surprised nobody has tried to replicate these


----------



## Woz_Ginge

This mouse is ace!

I came from a KPM which has the 3310 but playing Quakelive I could never get any better. I really could not do any flick shots at all with it and my accuracy was awful. It felt like what my brain wanted to do and what I did do was ever so slightly out of sync. The KPM felt nice to hold but it just felt wrong in QL. Now with the G102 I put almost 10% on my accuracy with the LG almost straight away. Everything just feels so much more responsive. Its like "wow"! My brain and actions are in sync and I can pull off the shots I want.

I can't believe I had the G102 on my shelf for over 3 months because I initially didn't like it and was going to sell it.

I'm happy I gave it a second chance


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Just tested the hypers for the g pro on the 203.. holy %[email protected] lmao.. what a night and day difference.
> 
> Too bad I don't like the shape. Hypers on a firm cloth pad is like complete glide free movement.. but not icy out of control. I'm surprised nobody has tried to replicate these


And they last forever! I still have my original set on my FK1 that are over 2 years old and they still have great glide. Really amazing value for the money, considering they give you two sets. I also can't use any other skates now, everything feels way too fast. HyperGlides are like a perfect balance between speed and control. Love the product.


----------



## danceroid

Mercury > 3366 > 3360 > 3310 ?


----------



## 508859

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danceroid*
> 
> Mercury > 3366 > 3360 > 3310 ?


no, mercury is quite picky in terms of the surface and tend to spin out quite often because of hair or fur
3310 is just garbage. and I don't think you can tell difference between 3366 and 3360


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *numberfive*
> 
> 3310 is just garbage


rofl


----------



## Bucake

i'd take a 3090 over a 3310


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i'd take a 3090 over a 3310


I loved 3090 as well but I have absolutely zero problems with my ZA13 whatsoever.


----------



## 508859

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i'd take a 3090 over a 3310


I have g102, revel and a lot of other mice, but Kana v2 @ 3090 is what I use for gaming.
I had zowie ZA and EC, loved the shape of the later, but 3310 is just unbearable, I cannot explain it. It is precise, but 3090 and zowie 3310 are just night and day.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> I loved 3090 as well but I have absolutely zero problems with my ZA13 whatsoever.


i have no problems with the 3060, but if i compare it to the 3360 then i could argue that it's garbage.
arguably neither the 3310 or the 3060 are garbage "because they work", but now that we have the 3360, that's the reference i personally use.
3310 is dated budget hardware, seems weird to defend it..


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i have no problems with the 3060, but if i compare it to the 3360 then i could argue that it's garbage.
> arguably neither the 3310 or the 3060 are garbage "because they work", but now that we have the 3360, that's the reference i personally use.
> 3310 is dated budget hardware, seems weird to defend it..


tbh it seems weird to attack it or call it garbage but w/e


----------



## Bucake

depends what you compare it to









more importantly imo, it never deserved the praise to begin with. i think the hype made people think that it's great, but it never was.
at best, it was a side-grade to existing sensors.

i mean, essentially it's fine because "it does the job", but there are plenty of sensors i'd rather use than it, including the mercury, am010 and 9500


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *numberfive*
> 
> no, mercury is quite picky in terms of the surface and tend to spin out quite often because of hair or fur
> 3310 is just garbage. and I don't think you can tell difference between 3366 and 3360


Yet 90% of pros are still using 3310 Zowie mice. Saying they're garbage is laughable. The difference between 3366 and 3310, while noticeable, it isn't huge. If you think a slightly better tracking sensor is going to take your skill to the next level or something, you're mistaken.


----------



## Klopfer

90% are sponsored








and ofc shape is more important
but that doesnt matter that the pmw3366/3360 etc is just the better Sensor , and there are also mices wwith better clicklatency then the Zowie ...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> 90% are sponsored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and ofc shape is more important
> but that doesnt matter that the pmw3366/3360 etc is just the better Sensor , and there are also mices wwith better clicklatency then the Zowie ...


How dare you expect anything for your money, you just have to get good at CS, because everyone plays CS, right?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> 90% are sponsored
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and ofc shape is more important
> but that doesnt matter that the pmw3366/3360 etc is just the better Sensor , and there are also mices wwith better clicklatency then the Zowie ...


You can repeat it all you want about the latency, sensor, etc - it's all been beaten into the ground and you're not bringing any new information to the table. It's the same boring discussion that has been repeated for the past 2 years and you act like you're bringing some new breaking information to the table.

My point was, you guys like to over exaggerate and act like Zowie products are awful. They're still the most popular e-sports mice on the market and beyond capable as a dedicated gaming mouse, and have been for years. 3310 is old, but it's still holds up well.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Yet 90% of pros are still using 3310 Zowie mice. Saying they're garbage is laughable. The difference between 3366 and 3310, while noticeable, it isn't huge. If you think a slightly better tracking sensor is going to take your skill to the next level or something, you're mistaken.


the "pro argument" is still just such a stupid one. wanna bet they could rock with older sensors just the same?
pros were incredible at their respective games long before the 3310 was released.

anyway, if the 3310 isn't garbage, then what sensor is?
my point is that it's not about performance in-game, but spec-comparisons between sensors.
because, like i said, pros are great even with "bad sensors". or did you think the VT5366 was good as well?

yeah, the pro argument...









edit: just because someone can perform well with a mouse, does not mean the sensor in it is good compared to others. by defending zowie specifically i'm not sure you're even getting the point. should i bring up the shape argument?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> the "pro argument" is still just such a stupid one. wanna bet they could rock with older sensors just the same?
> pros were incredible at their respective games long before the 3310 was released.
> 
> anyway, if the 3310 isn't garbage, then what sensor is?
> my point is that it's not about performance in-game, but spec-comparisons between sensors.
> because, like i said, pros are great even with "bad sensors". or did you think the VT5366 was good as well?
> 
> yeah, the pro argument...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: just because someone can perform well with a mouse, does not mean the sensor in it is good compared to others. by defending zowie specifically i'm not sure you're even getting the point. should i bring up the shape argument?


Yeah, you're right. Because a 3366/60 tracks slightly better than a 3310 (not a large difference, some can't even feel difference), that makes every other sensor that isn't a 3366/60 garbage. Great logic! This forum never ceases to amaze me with the stupidity of some of these posts.


----------



## Klopfer

I never said thatt the 3310 is garbage ...
but just because 90% of the Pros are using Zowie, doesnt make Zowie Mice top








edit:
btw Im using Zowie Mice too


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> I never said thatt the 3310 is garbage ...
> but just because 90% of the Pros are using Zowie, doesnt make Zowie Mice top


Since you have trouble comprehending, let me explain for you. Someone said the sensor is garbage, I replied saying it's not and that a lot of people still use it, including a lot of pros. If it was indeed garbage, nobody would use it. I even said the 3366 has better tracking, but the 3310 still holds up well. Go back and read what I said.


----------



## Klopfer

and I just react to that stupid 90% of pro's are using it


----------



## 508859

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Yet 90% of pros are still using 3310 Zowie mice. Saying they're garbage is laughable. The difference between 3366 and 3310, while noticeable, it isn't huge. If you think a slightly better tracking sensor is going to take your skill to the next level or something, you're mistaken.


So you are claiming that 90% of pro's using zowie and providing a link where less than 50% of players doing so (and part of those using 3090 zowie mice)?
Here is to your "pro's" argument.
While 3310 of zowie is indeed a garbage, the mice itself are great overall due to their shapes, buttons, coating, size, cable.
And you can play on pro level on anything, you will get used to it and you will be good. Difference in accuracy might be just 3-4% (where you can track it), but there is no reason to punish yourself with 3310 zowie.
And last point - 3310 is not bad because it is old, 3090 and 20 year old MLT04 are better at tracking than 3310.


----------



## trism

Even though I've probably called 3310 garbage before, I don't really think it is *that* bad. I can certainly use it just fine, but I prefer other sensors. Even 3050.

I try to refrain from the subjective 'feelings' but I'd like to think that the 0x0d version of the SROM feels better. That is the first version I've seen on 3310. Zowie uses the next one (0x0e) and others usually 0x0f.

Then, for some reason I can't get used to 336x. It just feels 'slippery', like I wouldn't be able to control it like I want. Maybe I'm used to old poor quality sensors.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *numberfive*
> 
> And last point - 3310 is not bad because it is old, 3090 and 20 year old MLT04 are better at tracking than 3310.


Lol. We again returned to the fact that all sensors are garbage, and mlt04 is the best. After 5 years, you will say that 3360 garbage, and mlt04 is still the best in tracking *facepalm*
Thank you, MARKETING


----------



## 508859

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Lol. We again returned to the fact that all sensors are garbage, and mlt04 is the best. After 5 years, you will say that 3360 garbage, and mlt04 is still the best in tracking *facepalm*
> Thank you, MARKETING


How is marketing impacting my opinion regarding 3090 and MLT being good, while newer and widely used 3310 being bad?
marketing would bias me towards newer sensors.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Yeah, you're right. Because a 3366/60 tracks slightly better than a 3310 (not a large difference, some can't even feel difference), that makes every other sensor that isn't a 3366/60 garbage. Great logic! This forum never ceases to amaze me with the stupidity of some of these posts.


that wasn't my logic. my logic is you take the specs of one and the specs of the other, and you compare those. you leave out in-game performance because it says very little about a sensor. (if mr.X could crush you with the 2020, does that mean it's good?)
in-game performance would probably tell you that there isn't a single bad gaming sensor.

and arguably it's true, if you can kick ass with a mouse then the sensor is apparently good enough. but it's just so pointless to judge sensors like that.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> in-game performance would probably tell you that there isn't a single bad gaming sensor.


Depends on the viewpoint and usage case(e.g. 3320 with 1m/360° wont work), at the very least i think people can agree on that there better options in certain cases, especially given the pricepoint of certain products. As for ingame performance it also depends on the (literal) viewpoint as well, when i uploaded gameplay with the PTSDGear Zora, Ino mentioned that he was barely seeing any difference, which is partly due to 60fps and compression masking the jitter, but mostly due to him not being able to see and feel how much i struggle with the mouse itself and higher concentration levels required just to keep similar levels of aim.

And talking about the Zora, it also brings me to the overfocus and Sensor itself, instead of actual performance and the overall product, e.g. i would rather take a 3988 mouse that has good tooling, fit, and FW, than a 3360 mouse that rattles like hell and has a FW that brings its motion latency down to the other mouse, giving up one of the possible advantages of the 3360 anyway.

Now as for Zowie, if you take away all the subjective points, you are left with just mediocrity that shouldnt be acceptable for the price asked, the weird thing is however how zealous some People defend Zowie for every action they take, and buy everything from them for reasons they probably cant explain themselves. It also goes against the logic of gaming gear in the first place, but then again, there are still things that arent known yet anyway, for example as to why and when people prefer higher delays.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Depends on the viewpoint and usage case(e.g. 3320 with 1m/360° wont work), at the very least i think people can agree on that there better options in certain cases, especially given the pricepoint of certain products.


i agree, but factoring in price is already outside of the discussion. (or at least, the discussion i thought we were having here







)
basically, i'm arguing that it's fairly pointless to compare _sensors_ by looking at in-game performances, because there are other important factors (shape for one) to consider.
of course performance does not say nothing, but ultimately it just doesn't serve as data to objectively judge a sensor, especially relative to another.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Ino mentioned that he was barely seeing any difference, which is partly due to 60fps and compression masking the jitter, but mostly due to him not being able to see and feel how much i struggle with the mouse itself and higher concentration levels required just to keep similar levels of aim.


arguably this is another argument, but imo it's in line with that using in-game performance as a reference is just not a good way to judge a sensor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> And talking about the Zora, it also brings me to the overfocus and Sensor itself, instead of actual performance and the overall product, e.g. i would rather take a 3988 mouse that has good tooling, fit, and FW, than a 3360 mouse that rattles like hell and has a FW that brings its motion latency down to the other mouse, giving up one of the possible advantages of the 3360 anyway.
> 
> Now as for Zowie, if you take away all the subjective points, you are left with just mediocrity that shouldnt be acceptable for the price asked, the weird thing is however how zealous some People defend Zowie for every action they take, and buy everything from them for reasons they probably cant explain themselves. It also goes against the logic of gaming gear in the first place, but then again, there are still things that arent known yet anyway, for example as to why and when people prefer higher delays.


good points, but we have a decent amount of info from stuff like datasheets and otherwise "more objective" testing.
leaving out "implementation", i think we're not out of line to judge sensors without factoring in the rest.
of course your point still stands that it's circumstantial, but i can't think of too many situations where one is objectively better than the other. and if we're talking 3310, i don't see it beating the 3360 on anything.

which brings me to delay.. do people really prefer it? aren't they just used to it?
i'm not exactly a neurologist, but it sounds implausible to me that somehow the brain would benefit from the extra I/O delay somehow. using the delay to have the brain catch up on events?







or maybe only slow people prefer extra delay...









anyway, the zowie defense is possibly just a blind sense of loyalty in some cases.
or a funny sense of self-righteousness, bashing on the "whiners who are never satisfied". most are hypocrites, attacking anything "negative" that's said about zowie / 3310.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> but ultimately it just doesn't serve as data to objectively judge a sensor, especially relative to another.
> arguably this is another argument, but imo it's in line with that using in-game performance as a reference is just not a good way to judge a sensor.


Just because i am quoting you, doesnt mean that i want to refute your point(at least in this case).









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> leaving out "implementation", i think we're not out of line to judge sensors without factoring in the rest.
> of course your point still stands that it's circumstantial, but i can't think of too many situations where one is objectively better than the other. and if we're talking 3310, i don't see it beating the 3360 on anything.


But we arent buying sensors, that 3310 isnt on the same level as 3360 in raw specs is obv. not the case, but i rather see it as a "raised potential limit", not a given, 3310 itself is a good example as the KPM shows what is possible with it, but taking "care" for a 3310 product is redundant in the first place though, except when the whole product line is using it. And imo 3360 has become the "muh V8" here on OCN, ignoring that the VW Golf with DSG is just as fast.....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> which brings me to delay.. do people really prefer it? aren't they just used to it?
> i'm not exactly a neurologist, but it sounds implausible to me that somehow the brain would benefit from the extra I/O delay somehow. using the delay to have the brain catch up on events?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe only slow people prefer extra delay...


IDK either tbh, one explanation would be that it might be easier to coordinate clicking with the current crosshair position, meaning you move the mouse, observe, then click, instead of doing both actions simultaneous, basically "reviewing" mid movement what you have actually done with your mouse, which in turn might be helpful in slow games that require high first shot precision, at least thats my personal observation with myself, high motion latency never bugged me in CS, not even the 1st A9800 SROM levels, however in MMS and ArenaFPS i would rather have it at a minimum.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> And imo 3360 has become the "muh V8" here on OCN, ignoring that the VW Golf with DSG is just as fast.....


Shh! Don't expose the performance and drive up the sale value yet! I am working towards getting one.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Just because i am quoting you, doesnt mean that i want to refute your point(at least in this case).


whoops. assumptions..









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> But we arent buying sensors, that 3310 isnt on the same level as 3360 in raw specs is obv. not the case, but i rather see it as a "raised potential limit", not a given, 3310 itself is a good example as the KPM shows what is possible with it, but taking "care" for a 3310 product is redundant in the first place though, except when the whole product line is using it. And imo 3360 has become the "muh V8" here on OCN, ignoring that the VW Golf with DSG is just as fast.....


well, "raised potential limit" is basically what i was talking about.
you're right though, we're not buying sensors. but an entire mouse, it's just a big blob of subjectivity. and what then decides what's good and bad? amounts of likes?









just for reference, i don't care that much myself. my main concern is that the mouse never gets above pcs (muh consistency). second is actually texture, shape third.
other than that, consistent 500hz is probably more important to me than motion latency is. excessive ripple generally isn't really a concern at 400-800cpi.
higher variance can be a bit of a dealbreaker, but none of the mice i (want to) use have it.

funny, because i feel like the same thing happened with the 3310.
3310 -> hype -> companies make mice with 3310 without getting the most out of it -> happy gamers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> basically "reviewing" mid movement what you have actually done with your mouse


right, that wouldn't be so weird. would be interesting to see results, but it's very hard to test i suppose. whether delay is or can be beneficial in games i mean.
i can imagine that there could be a small window that's potentially beneficial, before it starts working against you.


----------



## edward236

Smoothing does not seem to change with fps
This makes the mouse harder to adapt
Jitter increases with speed
The delay decreases with speed

I'd rather be consistent...


----------



## edward236

G102 at low speed, too much jitter


a3090

mlt04


At this speed difficult to control

still -> still no problem
But Slow moving ->still has a problem
Aiming at moving targets will be problematic


----------



## wareya

I don't get anywhere near around that much jitter with my g203, is there maybe a difference between the two after all?


----------



## edward236

400DPI 1000HZ?


----------



## wareya

1200dpi but there's no smoothing on this sensor


----------



## edward236

1200DPI 1000HZ G102
firmware:107.1.13


----------



## edward236

Is there anyone else who can have G102 or G203 to try?
In the slow speed of jitter

I think G102 because there is no smooth or low smooth


----------



## edward236

400DPI

6000DPI


A bit different?


----------



## wareya

Yeah a little you can see the dynamic framerate stuff in the 6000dpi one pretty well. God I love the way that feels.


----------



## Naf7

G102 fw107.1.13
1200cpi.1000Hz


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







1200cpi.500Hz


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







http://imgur.com/WckS6fM
http://imgur.com/3tBPas4


----------



## edward236

G102 400DPI 1000HZ


MLT04 1000HZ


G102 speed increase, jitter immediately increased
And that's not fast,For low-sensitivity players


----------



## wareya

Yeah you can basically expect around +/- 1 or 2 counts (on top of the dithering and real jitter) in terms of native DPI with the g102/g203 because the sensor rapidly dynamically alters the framerate of the sensor, presumably to try to match the motion it sees on the pad.


----------



## edward236

I do not know
But the fact that at such a speed, such a jitter is out of control
Can only improve the sensitivity, only at a lower speed control


----------



## wareya

That jitter isn't random jitter, it's still sticking to the same path over time. If you need 1/100th of an inch of accuracy while moving the mouse with a low sensitivity, maybe the game is broken.


----------



## edward236

If still -> still This will not have any effect
But in the move, this will be affected
If your goal is moving fast,You can not aim at the target accurately

You can not follow and aim at

Can not move the mouse in the target, you must stop at the aim
When the mouse is moving
Can not see the real location from the screen


----------



## wareya

It's literally +/- one pixel difference from the MLT04. Which has a deadzone.

It's not going to affect anything.


----------



## edward236

Look at the picture above
Not only +/- 1,When you move faster

When you move with 1 pixel +/-1
When you move more Not +/- 1


----------



## wareya

MLT04: two or three horizontal lines
G102: three or four horizontal lines
???


----------



## edward236

So what's the same?

The picture is obviously different


----------



## wareya

The fact that the deviation from the current point of motion is too small to matter is the same.

This isn't random jitter. It doesn't add up over time.


----------



## edward236

But the transfer to the computer is not the right place
The display on the screen is not correct

I have to judge how much I should move according to the location of the screen

I certainly know that this does not affect the distance traveled
I can only determine the correct position when the mouse is stopped
When the mouse moves, I can not judge from the screen, only to feel about the location

Jitter increases with speed,As can be seen from the figure


----------



## wareya

It's not a problem you're actually having. The jitter is not bad enough to affect gameplay in any reasonable games, not even in marginal cases. And your awareness of the location on the screen is always operating at a ~200ms+ latency, which is a far greater effect than two pixels of jitter.

All mice have the effect of timing jitter increase with speed, unless they run the sensor at a near multiple of 1000hz, which no commercial mice with good sensors actually do, not even the WMO.

Improving on this jitter would give the same kind of improvement in performance as running a sensor at 12000hz instead of 6000hz. There is technically an improvement there, but it's not going to affect anything at all.


----------



## edward236

I am in ie3.0 io1.1 a3090 ec2-a za12 and so on....
I did not notice this problem obviously

But g102 is particularly noticeable


----------



## wareya

The g102 feels different than other mice, like the MLT04 does too, but that's because it works so differently internally, not because of the timing jitter. For example, I have problems making microadjustments at 1200dpi, a problem I never had with the 3010, 3090, or 3360 (though I did have it with the MLT04).

If you artificially add enough timing jitter to a 3090 to make it look like the g102, it still won't feel the same way as a g102.

All I can say is try a different mousepad (don't bother buying one just to test though), if it still feels bad then the mercury sensor probably isn't for you. Of course the default mouse skates for the g102/g203 are absolutely horrible on cloth pads, but the skates are probably not the reason it feels bad.


----------



## edward236

thank you
I will try other mouse pad

Really g102 is special


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> IDK either tbh, one explanation would be that it might be easier to coordinate clicking with the current crosshair position, meaning you move the mouse, observe, then click, instead of doing both actions simultaneous, basically "reviewing" mid movement what you have actually done with your mouse, which in turn might be helpful in slow games that require high first shot precision, at least thats my personal observation with myself, high motion latency never bugged me in CS, not even the 1st A9800 SROM levels, however in MMS and ArenaFPS i would rather have it at a minimum.


What about the fact that smoothing "eats" human-produced jitter, which is very helpful with tracking weapons like shaft/automatic rifles, especially on high sens?


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> The g102 feels different than other mice, like the MLT04 does too, but that's because it works so differently internally, not because of the timing jitter. For example, I have problems making microadjustments at 1200dpi, a problem I never had with the 3010, 3090, or 3360 (though I did have it with the MLT04).
> 
> If you artificially add enough timing jitter to a 3090 to make it look like the g102, it still won't feel the same way as a g102.
> 
> All I can say is try a different mousepad (don't bother buying one just to test though), if it still feels bad then the mercury sensor probably isn't for you. Of course the default mouse skates for the g102/g203 are absolutely horrible on cloth pads, but the skates are probably not the reason it feels bad.


Try 500hz


----------



## wareya

That doesn't actually improve anything, it just makes graphs look nicer and gives you a placebo.


----------



## Straifer

I really like this mouse! So much so I'm ordering a G Pro to see if it's the shape or the sensor. I'm really hoping it's the shape so I can gut the two and have a white G pro.










p.s. to add fire to the debate I seem much more consistent in FPS games with 500hz on this mouse.


----------



## Soo8

There's definitely more timing jitter on the mercury than the 3360. 1 count deviations on the 3360 compared to the 2-3 count deviations on the mercury. But the speed at which this occurs is so slow, it's negligible in the grand scheme of things. Especially taking into account the marvelous variable framerate kicking in fully at higher speeds.


----------



## qsxcv

haven't read this thread much but
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> There's definitely more timing jitter on the mercury than the 3360. 1 count deviations on the 3360 compared to the 2-3 count deviations on the mercury.


this is correct.
not sure if it's perceptible though.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Logitech G Pro weight reduction


----------



## ImpedingMadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Logitech G Pro weight reduction


Give us the number


----------



## daniel0731ex

Have a crappy balance, results are 85g +/- 10g.


----------



## khabme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> I have bad english aswell (netherlands ******)
> 
> But you are very cool, you like cool mice like me xD
> I use G pro with Qck heavy or Razer gigantus ( not sure which to choose)
> 
> i cant replace mousefeet because G pro lift of distance is to low.
> Any thick mousefeet not register my movement anymore, which mousefeet you bought?


Hotline

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G-Pro-Mouse-Feet-/112182621259


----------



## wonderboysam

FYI Corepad have released feet too and I much prefer them to hyperglides, hotlines & stock feet


----------



## Grino

I just got my g102 from ebay. So could test out how shape would feel for hand, but left mouse button has horrible squeaking sound.

Left mouse click makes very loud squeaking/whine sound, while pressing button down and pushing it bit inwards toward shell and can hear that sound when releasing button back up. What hapends in regular use most of the time, specially when gaming and right mouse button does not do this.

How can I fix that?

Sound is more like high pitch squeaking sound, not scratching like and seems it comes more from underneath of the mouse button. Wondering if anyone else have had similiar problems and how they fixed it.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grino*
> 
> I just got my g102 from ebay. So could test out how shape would feel for hand, but left mouse button has horrible squeaking sound.
> 
> Left mouse click makes very loud squeaking/whine sound, while pressing button down and pushing it bit inwards toward shell and can hear that sound when releasing button back up. What hapends in regular use most of the time, specially when gaming and right mouse button does not do this.
> 
> How can I fix that?
> 
> Sound is more like high pitch squeaking sound, not scratching like and seems it comes more from underneath of the mouse button. Wondering if anyone else have had similiar problems and how they fixed it.


The encoder on one of my white ones squeaks when I scroll. My other 2 don't have any squeaking problems. Could be that there's some friction between some parts of the button and inner shell. If it bothers you, try and return it for a replacement. I never bothered sending my squeaky white one back because, well... 28 quid.


----------



## Grino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> The encoder on one of my white ones squeaks when I scroll. My other 2 don't have any squeaking problems. Could be that there's some friction between some parts of the button and inner shell. If it bothers you, try and return it for a replacement. I never bothered sending my squeaky white one back because, well... 28 quid.


Yeah no point to send this back either, got it like for 23 as well and shipping it back would cost nearly as much.

So thats why if could fix it by opening it and maybe lubing some moving parts from inside. Though I have not done anything like that before to peripherals and not sure what substance I should use, what would recommend for this? Atleast I'm aware usual greases won't do because that will detoriate plastic.

Though this shape is kinda tores me appart. I like the straight profile when viewing from bottom but these slant sides \___/ does not fit me. During gaming when fingertipping mouse and gripping somewhat hard specially when mice is rather too narrow for me (measured from bottom where fingers tend to slide), it feels like mouse slips from fingers upwards. I Rather prefer l___l or slightly concave )___( shape simliar to g9x precision grip (why can't we have updated mice with smiliar shape and size).

So thinking maybe I might mod this mouse a bit with Sugru or something to tweak those sides a bit. But I'm not too sure how well that would work, have seen only few examples.


----------



## OrangeRaptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grino*
> 
> Yeah no point to send this back either, got it like for 23 as well and shipping it back would cost nearly as much.
> 
> So thats why if could fix it by opening it and maybe lubing some moving parts from inside. Though I have not done anything like that before to peripherals and not sure what substance I should use, what would recommend for this? Atleast I'm aware usual greases won't do because that will detoriate plastic.
> 
> Though this shape is kinda tores me appart. I like the straight profile when viewing from bottom but these slant sides \___/ does not fit me. During gaming when fingertipping mouse and gripping somewhat hard specially when mice is rather too narrow for me (measured from bottom where fingers tend to slide), it feels like mouse slips from fingers upwards. I Rather prefer l___l or slightly concave )___( shape simliar to g9x precision grip (why can't we have updated mice with smiliar shape and size).
> 
> So thinking maybe I might mod this mouse a bit with Sugru or something to tweak those sides a bit. But I'm not too sure how well that would work, have seen only few examples.


Nice diagrams lol


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> An advantage of fingertip movement is that it is much less demanding on the precision of your sensor-wrist alignment.
> 
> In palm grip it is restricted to one of three modes:


----------



## Unsaid90

I'm sorry but there are over 100 pages, couldn't search everything, so mb it's been asked.
Is there any advantage of using the "on-board" settings as opposed to pc-stored profiles ?
also does the mouse have any acceleration or is it very selective of the surface it's on... it's just for me it speeds up sometimes especially during short, but fast moves. or mb it's just the cord ?
basically im asking for anything a new buyer should do to the mouse right away after connecting it to make the best of it.
thx.

p.s. 800 dpi 500hz and using this pad by bloody, cloth


----------



## Kommando Kodiak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unsaid90*
> 
> I'm sorry but there are over 100 pages, couldn't search everything, so mb it's been asked.
> Is there any advantage of using the "on-board" settings as opposed to pc-stored profiles ?
> also does the mouse have any acceleration or is it very selective of the surface it's on... it's just for me it speeds up sometimes especially during short, but fast moves. or mb it's just the cord ?
> basically im asking for anything a new buyer should do to the mouse right away after connecting it to make the best of it.
> thx.
> 
> p.s. 800 dpi 500hz and using this pad by bloody, cloth


Yes I agree with you I'd like to ask questions in several topics but feel I'd get abused the same way with people saying "we mentioned it earlier". I wish we could collate relevant points and any other points we've come to a consensus on in one of the first posts like a reserved post slot like a directory or something.

Ie pros and cons of a mouse. Tracking issues, polling rate issues, consensus amongst various camps like claw grippers, palmers, finger-tippers, razer fans views, logi fan views, etc


----------



## Grino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OrangeRaptor*
> 
> Nice diagrams lol


Well yes, not like I'm first one to use them like that.









Some progress about that squeaking:
I opened mouse and seems queaking came from somewhere underneath of the mouse button and sprayed some silicone there. That seemed to help for now and propably would have been possible to do without opening the mouse itself, but atleast I know now where that sound was located at.

And during the process swapped some Hotline Games mouse skates (Competition Level) underneath, but first impressions of them is that they seem to have more friction than stock ones on Steelseries QCK+, can hear and feel it rather noticeably. Not sure if Hotline skates "feel" smoothens over a time?


----------



## Hika

I got the G102 and the G pro

The g102 tested for 2 weeks, the slow speed of the mouse feels really bad for me. But the mouse in general is good.
The G pro is better in everything expect the cable.

The clicks feels better, the coating is really nice, and the sensor works perfect.

In Argentina the G pro cost 42 usd and the G102 (203) cost 31.

So, if you have the money... dont think and grab de G pro.


----------



## wareya

What do you mean by "the slow speed of the mouse", DPI?


----------



## Hika

pardon me, i mean at slow movement.
when i use the paint at slower speeds like, really slow movements, the mouse dont feel really accurate.


----------



## Unsaid90

this is what i kinda feel too, playing csgo with low sens, i just feel pressed to confidently aim at small things/pixels compared to my old mouse (abyssus 2014)... first i thought it was the light weight and new shape, but now i start blaming the sensor+mousepad combo









btw does this sensor misbehave at "weird" settings like 750 or 850 dpi ?
or is it completely free of this nonsense ? coz i feel like this 800 dpi is a bit too low, would like to test 850, but afraid of jitter or instability


----------



## Stefag40

Hello, i was wondering is there huge difference between logi 102 and logi 102 IC Versions? i was looking at this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/122250126835?ul_noapp=true in desc. it doesn't say it's IC but i contacted seller he said it's IC version.
I need it for video editing and maybe for gaming (BF4) also i know it was been discussed already but i just wanted to ask if IC will be good for normal usage like video editing and slight gaming.
Cheers


----------



## Hika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stefag40*
> 
> Hello, i was wondering is there huge difference between logi 102 and logi 102 IC Versions? i was looking at this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/122250126835?ul_noapp=true in desc. it doesn't say it's IC but i contacted seller he said it's IC version.
> I need it for video editing and maybe for gaming (BF4) also i know it was been discussed already but i just wanted to ask if IC will be good for normal usage like video editing and slight gaming.
> Cheers


You should get the G pro.

Look at this link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G-Pro-Gaming-FPS-Wired-Mouse-Advanced-Gaming-Sensor-Competitive-Play-/311822727029?hash=item489a153775:gYMAAOSwhQhYxuD4
i brought from these guys in the past a G303 refurb, works perfect.

I got myself the IC version of the G102 , the only diference its that dont come with the box in teory.


----------



## Some Tech Nub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stefag40*
> 
> Hello, i was wondering is there huge difference between logi 102 and logi 102 IC Versions? i was looking at this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/122250126835?ul_noapp=true in desc. it doesn't say it's IC but i contacted seller he said it's IC version.
> I need it for video editing and maybe for gaming (BF4) also i know it was been discussed already but i just wanted to ask if IC will be good for normal usage like video editing and slight gaming.
> Cheers


IC= internet cafe version. No box but same mouse.


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hika*
> 
> You should get the G pro.
> 
> Look at this link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-G-Pro-Gaming-FPS-Wired-Mouse-Advanced-Gaming-Sensor-Competitive-Play-/311822727029?hash=item489a153775:gYMAAOSwhQhYxuD4
> i brought from these guys in the past a G303 refurb, works perfect.
> 
> I got myself the IC version of the G102 , the only diference its that dont come with the box in teory.


Why would you recommend to buy basically the same mouse but refurbished and for the 2x price?


----------



## Hika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> Why would you recommend to buy basically the same mouse but refurbished and for the 2x price?


Hi, its not the same mouse.

Fedok Link . 28 USD.
My link 44 USD

I dont see the X2, and in the past i got things from that ESHOP , they work really well.

Because i have BOTH of the mouses and i can tell a huge diference between both mouses.
The only thing i dont like from the G pro is the cable.
All the other things seems better in the G pro.

Sensor, clicks, coating.


----------



## subreach87

is there a way to make this mouse significantly lighter?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> is there a way to make this mouse significantly lighter?


You can open it up and cut some plastic away and remove the dpi button. I made a post a few pages back about it. Also, you can de-solder the side buttons and rgb led. I have a modded one that is super light I would sell for like $22 if anyone wants it.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3366 has 2 frames of smoothing on srom7, no smoothing on srom8, and 2 frames on srom9
> 
> srom9 is the latest one for g502,g303,g900. i haven't checked for g pro and g403 but i assume it's the same


Cpate: "There is no smoothing on 3366. There is no alternate firmware for Pro."

Source: I asked, and he was kind enough to reply. Thanks Cpate!


----------



## Bucake

2 frames is 2 frames, mister pate


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 2 frames is 2 frames, mister pate


Well if there is smoothing there is smoothing, but if cpate says there isn't I would probably prefer some piece of evidence to support the contrary.


----------



## Bucake

no offence to cpate but he's a manager and not a developer, he knows only so much.
i assume he was just told there's no smoothing, so i don't blame him.

qsxcv showed a while ago that certain sroms have some "smoothing". iirc this is true for both the 3360 and the 3366.
he also found there was an srom without the smoothing, but personally i think that wasn't intentional.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/230#post_25093385
edit: there are plenty more posts about it (from him), but they're scattered


----------



## wareya

No need for scare quotes, it's quite literally just smoothing.


----------



## biochem

Need advice:
Want to buy the 102/203 an remove the side buttons. Gonna use it with my left hand (guess these would annoy me).

Thats the plan... what do you think? Guess i will have to somehow fill the holes afterwards?


----------



## wareya

You might need to. I think sticking tape over them might be enough, might not, I'm incredibly non-ambidextrous so I can't test how it would feel.


----------



## QuickShot

Could probably use some Sugru or something similar to fill in the gap and shape it with the body.


----------



## Diogenes5

Just bought a 203 today. I have used FK, FK1, Death Adder, G9x, and a lot of other mice in the past. I also have a g pro.

My initial impressions of the G203/G102


Main Mouse Buttons are still very tactile but feel like Chinese Omron 7n's. The Pro feel like Japanese Omron 01F's. The shell makes both of them very similar and light but I prefer the pro main mouse buttons slightly.
Middle mouse button is actually clickable now. The G Pro has a barely usable middle mouse button. I'm sure it's good if you don't want to accidentally press it and for an ability you use rarely. I prefer the G102 Middle mouse button.
On the other hand, the side buttons are clearly stiffer. On the G Pro they feel like omrons. The G102, they feel stiffer like huanos. Advante G Pro.
Sensor feels about the same. I prefer the G Pro but it could be a placebo.
Cable on G102 is way better being lighter.
I don't use profiles or anything on my mice so I can't comment on software differences
Basically the tradeoff is better middle mouse button and cable versus slightly inferior cable and side buttons. Sensor feels the same but I don't game in shooters at a high level to be able to tell anyways. Gonna test for a week and then return what I don't like.


----------



## gene-z

I just got a white G102 and the RGB LED looks 20x better. Not sure if it's because the white helps the color reflect inside, but the light looks so crisp and colors look more full compared to the black G102. Probably one of the best RGB lights I've seen.

I also swapped the side buttons for black ones and installed a black/white cessa cable. It looks so good, even better than the glossy ec2-a, imo.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I just got a white G102 and the RGB LED looks 20x better. Not sure if it's because the white helps the color reflect inside, but the light looks so crisp and colors look more full compared to the black G102. Probably one of the best RGB lights I've seen.
> 
> I also swapped the side buttons for black ones and installed a black/white cessa cable. It looks so good, even better than the glossy ec2-a, imo.


I got my G102 white this week. Love it. Third white mouse I have had.


----------



## Ickz

As someone who has returned over 15 GPros due to horrible mouse wheels and click asymmetry, I was curious to try the 203. Just got mine a few minutes ago - cable seems great and should be the default for their other mice instead of braided, scroll wheel is great and not hard to press, and the clicks on mine were very similar. My only real complaint is the switches seem much more stiff compared to the Pro - almost like I'm using a Zowie mouse with huanos. Dunno if it'll be my daily driver, but I'll probably keep it around when I'm playing something where I need to use the scroll wheel a lot. Seems like a great mouse for the price.

edit: Eh, seems to be something weird with the side buttons. When I press them, I hear some weird sort of second click after the buttom comes back up. Like: Press > click from switch actuating > release > click from switch being released > weird "plastic'y" second click


----------



## Diogenes5

Tested it a bit and I can't believe this but I'm keeping the G Pro instead of the 203. If it was just the middle mouse button that was better I might have kept it, but the clicks of the main mouse button are slightly more hollow and tinny (which I can feel) and the side buttons are harder to depress too versus the G Pro. For most people, they should just go with the 203 because it is 90% the same mouse, but I paid $70 for the G Pro because I wanted the best in everyway and I feel that Logitech delivered even though 99% would probably not be able to tell. I do wish there was a white G Pro though. At least I know for sure tho. Grats to everyone who has the 203, it is a 100% better value all around but not the best in my eyes.


----------



## cr0wnest

I just got my G102 several days ago and I love it so far. I also used the G Pro for a few months and I also own the G403. How close the mercury sensor performs to the 3366 is almost shocking. I wouldn't know if you didnt tell me this mouse did not use a 3366. And the standard rubber cable is so much better than the thick braided one of the Pro. Plus the texture on the G102 seems rougher, so that helped me with grip. Whatever Logitech did to this sensor, they are doing everything right. The only reason why I would recommend the G Pro over the G102 is for surface tuning if you really really need it. Or if you're a pro gamer who demands the absolute best. Otherwise, everyone else should go for the G102/203.


----------



## Reoxy




----------



## cr0wnest

I've realised the G102's sensor tends to "go off" on its own on occasions. I don't know how to describe it, but sometimes my mouse movement does not match my hand movement, as if its wandering off by itself and it will occur for no more than a second. Not a major issue, but I've been using the 3366 sensor for 3 years already and used it in 3 different mice (G502, G Pro, G403) and I don't recall any of them behaving like this, ever.

I remember reading some people saying the mercury sensor can mess itself up when there is dust. Now I always try to keep my pad clean (Razer Gigantus) so unless I got a faulty unit, I may eventually go back to the Pro or G403.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cr0wnest*
> 
> I've realised the G102's sensor tends to "go off" on its own on occasions. I don't know how to describe it, but sometimes my mouse movement does not match my hand movement, as if its wandering off by itself and it will occur for no more than a second. Not a major issue, but I've been using the 3366 sensor for 3 years already and used it in 3 different mice (G502, G Pro, G403) and I don't recall any of them behaving like this, ever.
> 
> I remember reading some people saying the mercury sensor can mess itself up when there is dust. Now I always try to keep my pad clean (Razer Gigantus) so unless I got a faulty unit, I may eventually go back to the Pro or G403.


Reminds me of how the G100s felt, it did not feel connected to my hand and the movements I made were not what happened on screen, it was very unusual. I think qsxcv said he had a similar feeling and called it a "grainy" feeling to the cursor.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

IMHO g100s feels good in flick shots and so bad at pixel movement. I liked to play with am010 but my spay with that sensor in cs 1.6 was very bad


----------



## cr0wnest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Reminds me of how the G100s felt, it did not feel connected to my hand and the movements I made were not what happened on screen, it was very unusual. I think qsxcv said he had a similar feeling and called it a "grainy" feeling to the cursor.


Never tried the G100s so I cant say. I don't feel that it does not connect with my hand movements, in fact it does it very well and I am amazed at how well the sensor is performing compared to the 3366, I cannot tell the difference. Well, at least until it started to wander off on its own.. As for "grainy" it doesn't seem to affect me.


----------



## sabaton88

Been using and rebuying WMO 1.1a for years. I would occasionaly browse around and read about new mices, looking for a modern, suitable replacement.
So happy i finally found such mouse and bought a black g203, 2 weeks ago. It really is perfect replacement for me.

- even smaller than WMO
- light
- ambidextrous
- well behaved cable (i hate the WMO cable with a passion and would cut the rubber off to the bare wire)
- well placed side buttons (haven't found use for them, still)
- good mouse wheel, no issues
- great clicks, no issues
- no squeaking and/or rattling of any kind, at all
- on board memory

Great sensor, haven't had any issues with tracking or any funky, unwanted mouse movements (qck heavy). No accel either, as far as i can tell (feel).

I use 400 dpi setting, but it immediately felt slower than WMO. And indeed i measured my WMO to be around 420 DPI and g203 (set to 400 dpi) turns up to be around 380 DPI.
Once i bumped g203 to 450 DPI, i was home. 3-4 days of getting used to the new mouse and its like i have been using it all along


----------



## Grino

Well I just tried quick'n'cheap "mod" on this mouse to try out something and well, it works for now.

My main problem was \__/ side profile and when gripping during gaming. Sometimes during flicks or tracking my thumb would slide under the mouse and lift up the mice and mess up with aiming.

So I had to come up with something to make left side atleast more straight/concave, what I have got used to.

Here is few picutures:






Quess using Sugru for similiar way would work as well, but it is way more expensieve and as well permanent solution?

I think still have to try adjust those position a little bit more to make it more comfy, but you get general idea.


----------



## munchzilla

not a bad idea, it was too narrow for me as well


----------



## OrangeRaptor

I used the G Pro at a buds house and I didnt really like it. Unlike the G303 the G Pro doesn't have that diamond shape I've come to like on the G303. This in turn with my grip style makes it so the mouse is very uncomfortable to hold. The way I hold the G303 is with my middle and ring finger on the front of the diamond and the pinky in the back. It's a very aggressive claw grip.


----------



## Grino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> not a bad idea, it was too narrow for me as well


Yeah it was too narrow for me too but with these rubber feets it feels now more wider when thumb won't slide downwards when gripping.

And ended up placing those rubber feets something like this





More easier for thumb when grip changes during different uses, safer shape could say







and weight layed down more evenly. Quess everyone can place those rubber feets as they please.

That adhesive seem to hold rather well for now, even I have been relocating those same feets multiple times and they have not detached or moved afterwards during few hours of gaming.

I also tried some feets at right side, but it was better without. Maybe could use just some grip tape instead, this surface is bit slippery itself for me.


----------



## Bucake

ooh. ducky mini iso?


----------



## Grino

Yup









Though it is just basically rebranded version of Poker II keyboard, where Poker II even is written on backplate if I remember right.


----------



## sberla

Is the Mercury sensor, really on par with 3360? at least at 800cpi.
I did read it has smoothing.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sberla*
> 
> Is the Mercury sensor, really on par with 3360? at least at 800cpi.
> I did read it has smoothing.


No
NO
No


----------



## sberla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> No
> NO
> No


uhm
It is not on par or it does not have smoothing ?


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sberla*
> 
> uhm
> It is not on par or it does not have smoothing ?


I personally can't use it.
It feels like angle snapping at low speeds (opposite of normal angle-snapping) because of how the tracking algorithm is designed.
So people started throwing around the word smoothing or angle snapping, but it's none of those.
It's just how the sensor operates.

Cpi is off spec. 800cpi is ~775. With hyperglides, that are thicker than normal feet, you get 800cpi at 850cpi setting.

I have no idea about actual smoothing, nothing has been confirmed or tested, to my knowledge.
The sensor has a continuous self regulating frame-rate and attempts to to keep the amount of motion per frame constant at lower speeds.
Implementing frame based smoothing like we're used to seems kind of weird with those premises...


----------



## Dasher

Well after a few months of using it I'm on a lookout for a new mouse. :/
The L+R buttons are just a way too soft. My forefinger and middlefinger are constantly flexed and floating atop of the buttons.
If i relax them i always missclick. Especially right button is very soft. I often press it just by sliding the mouse forward.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasher*
> 
> Well after a few months of using it I'm on a lookout for a new mouse. :/
> The L+R buttons are just a way too soft. My forefinger and middlefinger are constantly flexed and floating atop of the buttons.
> If i relax them i always missclick. Especially right button is very soft. I often press it just by sliding the mouse forward.


Some people claim they have gotten lucky with one that can withstand the weight of a finger. Buy 10 units, try them all, and if lucky, you can send 9 back instead of 10


----------



## Nivity

My G pro (one of the first batches) has very light M2 click, but never really had a problem with it.
I relax my fingers on the buttons always, light fingers?


----------



## Unsaid90

Not sure how you're gripping it to make it click accidentally. Happens to me mb once in 10-15 hours of gameplay which is acceptable.
Actually I just wanted to confirm something that's been said a few pages back - the default gliders are trash.
Just installed Hotline skates and it's like a whole different mouse now ! They are faster and aren't that quick to become sticky , small adjustments became so much more stable now.
So don't even hestiate to order the skates when you purchase the mouse - the sooner they arrive, the sooner you can enjoy the REAL g 102 .


----------



## kiss123

I do not speak english very well. Excuse. I have a logitech g102 mouse. I would like to know which mousepad is advised for this mouse because I am using hyperx mousepad and distance lod here is up 1 cd And I have seen that this mouse is less than 1 cd. Is it because of my mousepad ?? Who has less than 1 cd from lod distance, which mousepad do you use ?? Help me ??


----------



## Meleadeles

Would you advise this mouse as an entry-level budget mouse? Would be used mainly for FPS (CS, Quake and OW) and MOBA. Would you rather buy this mouse or one of its concurrent in the same price range? (Corsair Harpoon RGB, Steelseries Rival 100, Roccat Lua... Those are the ones I know, if you have other suggestions, I would gladly take them ^^)


----------



## cr0wnest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meleadeles*
> 
> Would you advise this mouse as an entry-level budget mouse? Would be used mainly for FPS (CS, Quake and OW) and MOBA. Would you rather buy this mouse or one of its concurrent in the same price range? (Corsair Harpoon RGB, Steelseries Rival 100, Roccat Lua... Those are the ones I know, if you have other suggestions, I would gladly take them ^^)


Definitely get this. I use it for competitive Overwatch and I have faith in it's performance. Go for the G Pro if you prefer to have surface tuning for lower LOD. But otherwise the G102 is sufficient.


----------



## revoc

Just realized the G102/G203 and G403 mice have the same nickname - "Prodigy". And then there's the G213 Prodigy keyboard. I don't see the underlying pattern here other than that they're G products.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revoc*
> 
> Just realized the G102/G203 and G403 mice have the same nickname - "Prodigy". And then there's the G213 Prodigy keyboard. I don't see the underlying pattern here other than that they're G products.


Pro = expensive
Prodigy = less expensive


----------



## revoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Pro = expensive
> Prodigy = less expensive


So the G403, that retails at $70 and uses the high end sensor, is not considered a 'pro' mouse?


----------



## Rayndalf

Their marketing team must have not expected the G403 to directly compete with the Gpro... the 'Prodigy' vs 'Pro' distinction is poorly defined, and the G403 is a more 'premium' product (inclusion of a removeable weight, low weight for size to offer a wireless model, lighter LEDs that allow for a backlit scroll)


----------



## abso

Got a G203 today and I am a little bit dissappointed. I used to love the G100S shape but for some reason the G203 doesnt feel comfortable. After a few hours my ring finger starts to hurt. Also the mouse cable and feet feel pretty bad (stiff and high friction). Sensor is great and it didnt feel any worse than the one in my G403. Build Quality and buttons feel great so it is to bad the shape is such a letdown.


----------



## Synoxia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abso*
> 
> Got a G203 today and I am a little bit dissappointed. I used to love the G100S shape but for some reason the G203 doesnt feel comfortable. After a few hours my ring finger starts to hurt. Also the mouse cable and feet feel pretty bad (stiff and high friction). Sensor is great and it didnt feel any worse than the one in my G403. Build Quality and buttons feel great so it is to bad the shape is such a letdown.


In no way the cable is stiff.. i think you've got g pro instead. By the way, g pro shape is really strange, you have to have very small hands and maybe fingertip to like it.


----------



## Klopfer

20cm long & 10.5cm wide hand ...
I like the shape and I like the sides more then the sides of the g100 ...
cable of the g pro is bad , cable from g102/203 is good ...
mousefeets I changed to Corepads ...
btw I do clawgrip


----------



## abso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synoxia*
> 
> In no way the cable is stiff.. i think you've got g pro instead. By the way, g pro shape is really strange, you have to have very small hands and maybe fingertip to like it.


I compared the G203 cable to my debraided G403 and default G100S cable and they are both quite a bit more flexible.


----------



## Pente

I bought a white g102 while out travelling.

No sensor rattle
Noting seems to be loose
Scroll wheel working good
Wire is not braided, nor is it stiff

Maybe you other people simply got a poor exemplar of the thing.

MSIP-REM-DZL-M-U0048
810-005304


----------



## RatratanX

Hi! Can anyone post detailed side by side photos of G102/G203 and Ventus X? For height, weight and depth comparison? I dont want to rely on specifications since actual measurement is better.

Thank you.


----------



## Penya

Does anyone have a problem with dust and fur on lens? Im cleaning my mousepad everyday but after 1-2 hours sensor lens is becoming dusty and cursor going crazy. If i remove glide in the middle around lense will this help?


----------



## plath

i did a review when i bought the mouse, but i just wanted to follow up as i've had the mouse 5 months now.

have to say it's the best mouse i've ever owned. out of my mice: intellimouse, diamondback, wmo, kana v2, aurora.

in in-game csgo my mouse movement feels so responsive and accurate. it's very comfortable to flick. it's the perfect fit for my smaller sized hand.

one issue i had was installing the logitech driver suite, which caused me a bit of bother.

also i had an issue with the RMB. the clicks are very soft. when i first used it i would grip my mouse when i was tense and i'd accidentally trigger RMB and die because it scoped or put a silencer on at the wrong moment. but i've got used to placing my ring finger on the side of the mouse and i'm more conscious of myself now so i no longer have that problem.

the cord is a bit stiff too. obviously a paracord would be ideal, but it's not a dealbreaker at all and it's better than a braided cable.

excellent mouse, especially if you can get it for cheap. g102 for £20 in an S E Asian country = epic bargain.


----------



## RatratanX

Is it possible to save to on-board memory the user profiles (automatic changing settings for every game) so no need to run the software?


----------



## Melan

No.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Coming from a G403, and I have 20cm hands. Oh. My. God. First thing I've noticed is, nothing is rattling!! It's so light, and feels incredibly solid. The cable feels incredible. Overall just feels like an upgrade in every way. It's too small to grip "traditionally", but I tend to hold this with 3 fingers on top, and it's perfect for that. Goodamn, wish I'd switched sooner instead of battling with the G403.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Coming from a G403, and I have 20cm hands. Oh. My. God. First thing I've noticed is, nothing is rattling!! It's so light, and feels incredibly solid. The cable feels incredible. Overall just feels like an upgrade in every way. It's too small to grip "traditionally", but I tend to hold this with 3 fingers on top, and it's perfect for that. Goodamn, wish I'd switched sooner instead of battling with the G403.


I have a similar hand size and I was considering a g403. what did you not like about it?


----------



## JackCY

Try both. GPro/102/203 is too small for 21cm hands if you want to use both main and side buttons without changing grip. Unless of course your hand is cramped so much already to be tiny. The distance from main to side buttons length wise is too small for larger hands.

Grino: LOL, great mod, definitely needed, the angle is annoying to me as well.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I have a similar hand size and I was considering a g403. what did you not like about it?


Bear in mind I think the G102 only works for me because I use a strange 3 fingers on top grip, because most people with "larger" hands can't use it.

The G403 basically has a slew of minor issues with it. The scroll wheels on all 4 that I've owned have been extremely wobbly, and it makes the mouse feel heaver than it is. On top of this, 2 out of 4 have lens rattle. One of them actually didn't start with it, but the lens must have loosened over time







. The sensor is also at a prety strange angle, which is unlike any other mouse. Finally, the cable is inflexible and heavy.

The G403 is a good mouse no doubt, but the G102 just feels better in every way for me.


----------



## Menthalion

The Pro shape with 131 ? I got a terrible cramp because it's not wide enough to only hold with my pinky.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Try both. GPro/102/203 is too small for 21cm hands if you want to use both main and side buttons without changing grip. Unless of course your hand is cramped so much already to be tiny. The distance from main to side buttons length wise is too small for larger hands.


I can use both G Pro and the G102 series with ease. I have a large mouse pad (soft) my right hand rests on the mouse pad and only two fingers touch the front part of either the G Pro or the G102.

Even though 3/4 of my hand rests on the pad, the two fingers control the mice easily. That is how I can still use these smaller models despite having 22.5 cm hands.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I can use both G Pro and the G102 series with ease. I have a large mouse pad (soft) my right hand rests on the mouse pad and only two fingers touch the front part of either the G Pro or the G102.
> 
> Even though 3/4 of my hand rests on the pad, the two fingers control the mice easily. That is how I can still use these smaller models despite having 22.5 cm hands.


Been wondering since GH days. What do you use as a daily driver or do you just rotate to whatever you feel like?


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I can use both G Pro and the G102 series with ease. I have a large mouse pad (soft) my right hand rests on the mouse pad and only two fingers touch the front part of either the G Pro or the G102.
> 
> Even though 3/4 of my hand rests on the pad, the two fingers control the mice easily. That is how I can still use these smaller models despite having 22.5 cm hands.


Yeah but I can't reach both main buttons and side buttons if I hold the mouse that way, if I have a grip to access the main buttons without bending my finger into crazy uncomfortable claw I cannot reach the side buttons as they are waaay too much forward. Same thing happens with most mice when laying finger on top of mouse and not clawing, even IE3.0 I would only be able to reach back side button if I don't overhand my middle finger by a little. At least for my relaxed non claw grip I need a larger distance from M1/2 to side buttons length wise. Only Rival 300 so far I think has this correctly for larger hands, and from comparisons forward side buttons on Rival about where backward side button is on G Pro... and that is a big difference in spacing and target hand size. I can use GPro/102/203 if I only want to use the main buttons and forget the side buttons or cut the thing apart to move the side buttons more back.

Going to pick up G403 in a bit, will see how that one goes.


----------



## queerquirks

Just got this mouse as a cheap alternative to my Roccat kpm. For the price its awesome for the buttons and clicks
however, my scroll wheel seems to be a bit tight, especially when i scroll up, 1/10 times i would middle click it which is close tab button for my bind. is this a known issue or i got a slight defect on my hands?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Been wondering since GH days. What do you use as a daily driver or do you just rotate to whatever you feel like?


Because I'm stuck between my home and the work place, have access to numerous mice to play with. At work I can not change the keyboards due to it being supplied via contract from Dell hence we all have to use their infamous membrane garbage. The mice are a free-for-all in which we can connect anything to use on the desktop.

Have installed various mice around the workshops as well as in the offices, ranging from Logitech (G Pro, G403, G502, G102, G303, G100S), Razer (DA Chroma, DA Elite, Abyssus V2), Corsair (M65 Pro RGB, Sabre RGB), Ducky (Secret, Secret M), SteelSeries (Rival 300, Rival 100, Sensei), Tt eSPORTS (Ventus X RGB, Ventus R and Z) and numerous Zowie models all over the place.

At home I have Logitech (G203, G Pro, G402, G302, G303, G900, MX Master, G3, G5, G9x, MX300, G500, G400, G400S, MX500, MX510, MX518, G602, G700), FinalMouse Scream One 2nd Edition (the ankle biters seem to like it), Microsoft (all the earlier models including WMOs, Intellimouse 1.1A, Explorer 3.0, Blue, Sidewinder X3, X5, X6), Razer (DA's, Boomslang 2007, Krait, Salmosa, Diamondback, Abyssus, Abyssus V2), Dell Alienware TactX, A4Tech Bloody AL90, Asus (Sica, Gladius, Strix Claw), Ninox Aurora, Ninox Venator (ordered), Roccat (Kone Pure, XTD, Savu, Military, Kiro, Kova, Kone Pure Owl-Eye), SteelSeries (Ikari Laser and Optical, Kinzu V1, V2, V3, Kana V1, V2, Sensei, Sensei RAW, Rival, Rival 300, Rival 700 (ordered)), CoolerMaster (Alcor, Spawn, Xornet, Sentinel Advance), Cougar 550M, EpicGear (Morpha, Cyclops, Meduza), Func/Fnatic Flick G1, Mad Catz R.A.T. T.E., Mionix (Avior 7000, 8200, Castor, Naos 5000, 7000, 8200), Nixeus Revel (white and dark models), Tt eSports (Theron, Ventus 9500, Ventus X Optical), EVGA (X3, X5 X10), Zowie (AM, EC1, EC2, FK1, FK2, FK1+, ZA12, ZA13, EC1-A , EC2-A ).

That's about it, unless I go through the basement boxes and find even more models left or forgotten about. Have been collecting mice far longer than keyboards simply because they are small and easy to store, compared to all the keyboards in my possession.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *queerquirks*
> 
> Just got this mouse as a cheap alternative to my Roccat kpm. For the price its awesome for the buttons and clicks
> however, my scroll wheel seems to be a bit tight, especially when i scroll up, 1/10 times i would middle click it which is close tab button for my bind. is this a known issue or i got a slight defect on my hands?


I've tried G203 and GPro today in showroom and both had a good wheel. Nice steps, no hard scrolling or getting stuck, no accidental middle clicks at all. Would say a defect and that should be easy to tell that it is getting somewhere stuck on something. On IE3.0 for example when the wheel is pressed in the wheel would rub on the PCB etc. and you know immediately something is wrong. Either you're scrolling weird or there is some obstruction or grind in your wheel if it's stiff and makes you push so hard you click. I've tried some G203/Pro before and neither had these issues, again showroom mice = can be abused at times more than you will at home and a true test for durability.

Elrick: that is some serious hoarding. Open a museum.


----------



## Tirppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> At home I have Logitech (G203, G Pro, G402, G302, G303, G900, MX Master, G3, G5, G9x, MX300, G500, G400, G400S, MX500, MX510, MX518, G602, G700), FinalMouse Scream One 2nd Edition (the ankle biters seem to like it), Microsoft (all the earlier models including WMOs, Intellimouse 1.1A, Explorer 3.0, Blue, Sidewinder X3, X5, X6), Razer (DA's, Boomslang 2007, Krait, Salmosa, Diamondback, Abyssus, Abyssus V2), Dell Alienware TactX, A4Tech Bloody AL90, Asus (Sica, Gladius, Strix Claw), Ninox Aurora, Ninox Venator (ordered), Roccat (Kone Pure, XTD, Savu, Military, Kiro, Kova, Kone Pure Owl-Eye), SteelSeries (Ikari Laser and Optical, Kinzu V1, V2, V3, Kana V1, V2, Sensei, Sensei RAW, Rival, Rival 300, Rival 700 (ordered)), CoolerMaster (Alcor, Spawn, Xornet, Sentinel Advance), Cougar 550M, EpicGear (Morpha, Cyclops, Meduza), Func/Fnatic Flick G1, Mad Catz R.A.T. T.E., Mionix (Avior 7000, 8200, Castor, Naos 5000, 7000, 8200), Nixeus Revel (white and dark models), Tt eSports (Theron, Ventus 9500, Ventus X Optical), EVGA (X3, X5 X10), Zowie (AM, EC1, EC2, FK1, FK2, FK1+, ZA12, ZA13, EC1-A , EC2-A ).
> .


You're missing one legendary mouse.. I'm so sad mine broke.. The Microsoft (Razer) Habu. Wish I still had mine :|


----------



## JackCY

Why would you even buy Habu back in 2006, it was bad. For a collectible, maybe someone can donate it.


----------



## Tirppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Why would you even buy Habu back in 2006, it was bad. For a collectible, maybe someone can donate it.


It got better with software and firmware updates if my memory serves me right. I used it quite a while until I rage slammed while playing poker and I broke something in it.


----------



## JackCY

I thought you stabbed the enemy on the monitor with it as it was probably more efficient than trying to aim click and knife them.

Laser back then and even today is a hard pass by me. On top of that Razer, pass^2.


----------



## hemlatuyda

What kind of mousepad is better for this mouse/sensor? Hard(plastic) or soft(cloth)?


----------



## munchzilla

hard plastic black textured is always better for any sensor it seems.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tirppa*
> 
> You're missing one legendary mouse.. I'm so sad mine broke.. The Microsoft (Razer) Habu. Wish I still had mine :|


Had a Microsoft Habu at the time but a relative wanted it for his boy as a Chrissy present. Funny thing is that the idiot doesn't know where it is at his place even now.

Funny how certain objects by us here is adored, cherished and even worshiped without equal, yet others treat is as junk or refuse and discharge it from their lives without remorse or regret.

Only an OCNer knows the pain of losing a sort after device and to despise the parasitic relatives even more so.


----------



## JackCY

I'm sorry for your loss.

---

Cloth pads for me, the thicker the better. They last forever too if they are well made and don't even need to be stiched, Roccat Taito washed a few times and no peeling at all, minimal even where the hand drags etc., what I don't like about it though is the damn rubber logo which obviously is rubber printed on the usable surface and it drags and makes that corner of the pad absolutely unusable, 2nd the surface tends to be shiny and some sensor can't deal with that very well. Old QCK is matter but Taito reflects more light sort of glossy shiny, as new and even after much use.

The sensors overall don't care if it's cloth or plastic surface.


----------



## hemlatuyda

I've read that pure black surfaces are best and ones with recurring patters are worst, but does it really matter?


----------



## Prozein

hm idk what happened to my mouse right click but if i hold it it registers then stops registering and then starts again a couple times at the start thoughts?really triggering


----------



## JackCY

All cloth and even hard surfaces have a pattern. Never had an issue with that.


----------



## hemlatuyda

By recurring pattern I meant texture like one of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=recurring+pattern&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir9PeDtZPVAhWFJ1AKHWIPCCYQ_AUICigB&biw=1120&bih=573

Read somewhere that such patterns are bad and might cause pointer skips.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hemlatuyda*
> 
> By recurring pattern I meant texture like one of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=recurring+pattern&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir9PeDtZPVAhWFJ1AKHWIPCCYQ_AUICigB&biw=1120&bih=573
> 
> Read somewhere that such patters are bad and might cause pointer skips.


yeah. the "pattern" you want is just to be rough enough for the sensor to pick up, but not too rough of course. it shouldn't really be visible to the naked eye. and not too reflective/smooth either.


----------



## Prozein

guys is there a way to fix mouse 2clicking by not opening the mouse?


----------



## JackCY

No unless you prefer a terrible software solution of filtering which creates a delay.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prozein*
> 
> guys is there a way to fix mouse 2clicking by not opening the mouse?


Some people reported breathing into the gaps between buttons helped. Sounds ridiculous but humid air somehow solves static electricity problems that cause double clicking. Don't quote me on that though. I can't comprehend how is that supposed to work but seen several people reporting having success with this.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prozein*
> 
> guys is there a way to fix mouse 2clicking by not opening the mouse?


http://jslover.secsrv.net/AutoHotkey/Scripts/Buggy-Mouse.ahk


----------



## Prozein

hmm its actually not 2clicking sometimes the click dosnt register when i press it and sometimes it registers for 2s then stops and again works first time such problem hmmm


----------



## hemlatuyda

Anybody drenched this mouse yet? How does it take water and other liquids?


----------



## gipetto

mouse 3 is so sensitive and wheel is so stiff I can't seem to scroll without clicking it.


----------



## Gech

should I change the mousefeet or not? If yes is it easy?


----------



## gipetto

I had to change them on mine because I removed them as part of disassembly. I filed down the banks around the old feet though because I didn't care to remove the feet for screw access. it is not difficult but why break something that works?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gech*
> 
> should I change the mousefeet or not? If yes is it easy?


Why wouldn't it be easy? Remove the originals, install the new ones, takes approx. 3 mins altogether, if not less.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I had to change them on mine because I removed them as part of disassembly. I filed down the banks around the old feet though because I didn't care to remove the feet for screw access. it is not difficult but why break something that works?


Because the stock ones suck.


----------



## Gech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Why wouldn't it be easy? Remove the originals, install the new ones, takes approx. 3 mins altogether, if not less.
> Because the stock ones suck.


Which one is better: Hyperglide, Corepad or hotline games (the last one is the cheapest)


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gech*
> 
> Which one is better: Hyperglide, Corepad or hotline games (the last one is the cheapest)


Hyperglide and Corepad are pretty much on the same level I guess, Hotline isn't that good afaik (way slower).


----------



## Ashbury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Hyperglide and Corepad are pretty much on the same level I guess, Hotline isn't that good afaik (way slower).


I prefer hyperglides because of the great rounded edges but they are both white and made of teflon.


----------



## Rayndalf

I've had corepad feet on my G403 for a few months or something, and agree that their thinness leaves something to be desired.

On smaller, more rigid mice with small feet (Gpro/G102 without a doubt), hotline games feet and the like work great, but require a flat surface like a desk and are pickier on surface condition, but have greater thickness and will outlast corepads feet and perform much the same on a decent cloth pad (and you can get multiple pairs of dot/pill feet for cheap, so you can replace them as needed).


----------



## ignsvn

Hands itchy so I bought one. Haven't used it much, just about 4 hours.

My copy has uneven button clicks. LMB is slightly harder to press and is louder than RMB. Not a deal breaker.

Compared to my G402:

Coating / texture: I like G102's textured coarse plastic. Not really a fan of rubber coating / material as they tend to get sticky (tropical climate here). I hope this coarse texture will last.

Cable: G102 cable is way better. For those who used it before, you know G402 cable can be a substitute to elevator wires.

Shape: no conclusive opinion on shape. I can live with both G102 & G402's shapes, but with g402 I feel ring & little fingers fatigue after long usage session. Too early too tell if I will feel better with G102 (but definitely not worse).

Sensor: also no conclusive opinion. I do flick shots much better in CS:GO, but not sure if it's solely because of G102's sensor or combination of sensor, shape and weight. We'll see.

FYI my mousepad is Qck Mass.

All in all I think it's a very good mouse for 20 USD


----------



## ignsvn

So, for those who have been using it for a few months.. how's the durability? Any glossy spots on the mouse?

(I'm using the black one btw)


----------



## Frosted racquet

To anyone experiencing the grinding when scrolling up- is lubrication the only fix or will it just fix itself after some time to "grind out" (hehe)?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignsvn*
> 
> So, for those who have been using it for a few months.. how's the durability? Any glossy spots on the mouse?
> 
> (I'm using the black one btw)


I have the mouse for 3 months and it's barely noticeable next to the back/forward buttons. Using fingertip grip.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosted racquet*
> 
> To anyone experiencing the grinding when scrolling up- is lubrication the only fix or will it just fix itself after some time to "grind out" (hehe)?
> I have the mouse for 3 months and it's barely noticeable next to the back/forward buttons. Using fingertip grip.


Thanks for the info, indeed that's the place where we usually put our thumb (regardless of grip type).

My mouse wheel has been solid so far. Not as smooth as my G402 (optical wheel decoder), but at least no grinding noise / feeling.


----------



## sabs212

Any mods that can be done to make the M2 click heavier? I love this mouse, and my M1/M2 seem to require the same force, but I can't rest my finger on M2 without pressing it.

I'm also willing to buy more mice (G102/G203 in black or white, G Pro) if manufacturing differences cause them to vary. I'd be fine with swapping components as needed.


----------



## wonderboysam

the g203 should have heavier clicks because it was released later when they had adjusted the clicks.

I've a few g203s all of which have heavier clicks than my g102 and my early g pro


----------



## sabs212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> the g203 should have heavier clicks because it was released later when they had adjusted the clicks.


Thanks - I should have clarified (and perhaps found a g203 thread, didn't see a popular one) but I have the g203 currently. Didn't realize it was different than the g102, thought they were just marketed for different countries. Do you know if there are any differences between early and recent g203 batches? Not sure if there's a way to tell the manufacture date of mine.


----------



## xmr1

Don't think they ever adjusted the clicks as it was just a matter of switch lottery. As far as I know the shell and switch model numbers have not changed.


----------



## sabs212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Don't think they ever adjusted the clicks as it was just a matter of switch lottery. As far as I know the shell and switch model numbers have not changed.


Alright, thanks. I'll probably buy a couple more from different places and see what they're like. Current mouse takes 35g of force to actuate at the tip of the button.


----------



## wonderboysam

The early batches of the g pro and g102 has unbearably sensitive buttons, the g203 and newer g pros are much much better although still a light click compared to most mice


----------



## xmr1

I've had several G Pros, G102s, G203s from both the very early batches and recent batches and there is no uniformity to the clicks. I have pre-order batches with both stiff and light clicks, and the same with more recent batches. After swapping shells around to mix up colors it's clearly due to the switches themselves.


----------



## sabs212

good to know, thanks for your input.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I've had several G Pros, G102s, G203s from both the very early batches and recent batches and there is no uniformity to the clicks. I have pre-order batches with both stiff and light clicks, and the same with more recent batches. After swapping shells around to mix up colors it's clearly due to the switches themselves.


Incorrect


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Incorrect


Good talk. Feel free to pinpoint what design change they made to the shell.

Like I said, I've already tested shell + PCB combinations from various batch numbers and it's the switch that determines the difference in click stiffness (and sound).


----------



## Some Tech Nub

G203 white is on sale for $23.99 @ amazon

https://www.amazon.com/s/browse/ref=gbps_tit_s-3_1712_cde8263b?ie=UTF8&node=17139745011&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=d3152026-148f-4b24-a686-6518d33b1712&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=NSXW8SAG5BK8QZDDTSB5

Picked one up. I felt a G102 in hand for a few minutes when I saw one in-store back in China. Could've saved $4 bucks if I picked it up there. Oh well, close enough. Will be nice to compare to my G403s.


----------



## Gonzalez07

damn thats a good deal


----------



## jayfkay

I wonder if logitech has any plans to release a 3360 with g400 shell... that would be a-amazing. Minor upgrades, some adjustments to make it lighter, improvements to the feet/gliding consistency... dam sun.


----------



## Maximillion

Highly doubt it. Considering the progression was essentially G400(s) > G402 > G403 / G703. The current shape is a revision of a revision. No way they shoehorn something like that into the ranks. So the only hopes would be:

1) Logi basically saying "Oops. Guess we goofed. Here's an updated mouse w/ the classic shell."

2) Us collectively being incepted into an even deeper layer of fantasy and them introducing a "Logitech Legacy Lineup" complete w/ 3366 versions of the G400, G100s, G9X etc.


----------



## Melan

Mmmmm a wireless g100 and g9x.


----------



## hemlatuyda

Does anybody know how this mouse takes water? Like accidental spilling?


----------



## Maximillion

Not sure about water, you should avoid milk-like drinks though.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hemlatuyda*
> 
> Does anybody know how this mouse takes water? Like accidental spilling?


You must be very clumsy to ask something like that? How often do you spill drinks? Maybe consider getting a sippee cup or just, you know, put your drink on a side table or on the floor or something. It's only water. The carpet will dry out eventually.


----------



## Some Tech Nub

Just got my G203 today. M2 is a bit lighter than M1. I'd consider them light-medium weight actuation. Middle click is quite easy to click in - maybe a bit too much. No rattle as far as I can tell, and so far everything else seems great. Shape will take some getting used to after using the G403 for so long.

White aesthetic matches my white keycaps. IMO this mouse looks a lot better than the G403 when on a desk.


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Highly doubt it. Considering the progression was essentially G400(s) > G402 > G403 / G703. The current shape is a revision of a revision. No way they shoehorn something like that into the ranks. So the only hopes would be:
> 
> 1) Logi basically saying "Oops. Guess we goofed. Here's an updated mouse w/ the classic shell."
> 
> 2) Us collectively being incepted into an even deeper layer of fantasy and them introducing a "Logitech Legacy Lineup" complete w/ 3366 versions of the G400, G100s, G9X etc.


hoped for old g3 classic shape - it was the best


----------



## abso

What DPI is the best to use for the 102? 400 or 800 dpi?


----------



## Melan

Either.


----------



## abso

Did the new firmware do anything else besides increase max dpi to 8000?


----------



## Evgennius

I played around with this mouse for a while (~8 months) and the two main problems that have surfaced are:

1. Scroll wheel now skips the first "tick" or whatever its called, meaning that I am required to scroll for a bit to reach the first "jump". Continuously its ok but first one is a mess.

I'll guess I need to reassemble but I lack spare feet (and don't have a skill to leave old ones intact when tearing mouse down)

2. RMB was always weak but its gotten weaker and even my feather-light finger placement occasionally triggers the button.

The first one is real PITA.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evgennius*
> 
> I played around with this mouse for a while (~8 months) and the two main problems that have surfaced are:
> 
> 1. Scroll wheel now skips the first "tick" or whatever its called, meaning that I am required to scroll for a bit to reach the first "jump". Continuously its ok but first one is a mess.
> 
> I'll guess I need to reassemble but I lack spare feet (and don't have a skill to leave old ones intact when tearing mouse down)
> 
> 2. RMB was always weak but its gotten weaker and even my feather-light finger placement occasionally triggers the button.
> 
> The first one is real PITA.


I wonder what went so wrong during manufacturing that made the right clicks so weak. I have 3 G Pros and 1 G102. 2 of the Pros and the G102 have a very weak right click. It can't be a coincidence.


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evgennius*
> 
> I played around with this mouse for a while (~8 months) and the two main problems that have surfaced are:
> 
> 1. Scroll wheel now skips the first "tick" or whatever its called, meaning that I am required to scroll for a bit to reach the first "jump". Continuously its ok but first one is a mess.
> 
> I'll guess I need to reassemble but I lack spare feet (and don't have a skill to leave old ones intact when tearing mouse down)
> 
> 2. RMB was always weak but its gotten weaker and even my feather-light finger placement occasionally triggers the button.
> 
> The first one is real PITA.


My g102 came with rather stiff buttons very similar to FK1 and I didn't notice any degradation after 6 months which is unusual for me since I apply a lot of pressure on them. However now after 6 months half of my mouse shell became practically glossy which is a shame. Overall mouse is holding on much better than most 70$ mice.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> My g102 came with rather stiff buttons very similar to FK1 and I didn't notice any degradation after 6 months which is unusual for me since I apply a lot of pressure on them. However now after 6 months half of my mouse shell became practically glossy which is a shame. Overall mouse is holding on much better than most 70$ mice.


LOL it looks like the whole mouse is coated with a glossy spray


----------



## Neshy414

Probably a good time to ask if anyone here tried to UV coat the 102/203 themselves, if so what did you use and did it work?


----------



## Reoxy

My g102 mousewheel sometimes does "phantom" scrolls, mostly in games. Like it automatically switches my weapon. Kinda annoying, but its so rare it does not bother me too much, until I die to it maybe







Anyways if it becomes worse, ill still buy another one. Its just so good with small modding.


----------



## PounceAlot

Guys, I have an issue with the G102 tracking: it feels as if though the mouse was on ice or something in a sense that the cursor would always travel a bit faster and more than expected at 1600dpi. Currently I have a Zowie EC2-a which on the countrary feels like it's a cloth iron that travels exactly 1 to 1. The surface is Qck+ fnatic AE, windows is at 6/11 no smoothing.

I remember that the same on ice feeling I had with DA13 but it was to much lesser extent that I had no problems switching between it and Zowie. Here though the difference is drastic enough to notice. Is it supposed to be this way?


----------



## skumrat

My WMO1.1A is starting to die finally. I'm going to get one of these to replace it. Will it actually be any noticeably better? Seems to me like the WMO1.1A is already "good enough".


----------



## teroteki

My white G102 Prodigy cable has died (SN: 1641)
Bought both the G Pro and the white G102 at the same time, December 2016 and switched the shells and cables (I hate the G Pro braided cable!)
I've been using the G Pro exclusively since then but a few days ago it started malfunctioning and disconnecting when I did fast swipes (cable is in a bungee).
When I bent the cable (about 10cm from the mouse) it would often disconnect/reconnect.
I was curious and compared the two cables - the actual G102 wires are _so_ much thinner than on the G Pro. I'm now using a spare Razer cable.

TL;DR
G102 cable lasted about 10 months


----------



## Evgennius

My report after ~1 year with active use:

Well guess what, the scroll wheel got busted by hairs and dust and s**t that got into the scrolling mechanism-switch-whatever its called (wheel itself got plenty of space around it which allows the stuff to come in easy peasy). The little tip that connects to the switch got "polished" as hell and now it skips all the steps.

I disassembled the mice, cleaned and put good old tape on that little tip and it got this thing moving, but this is awful solution and I am thinking what I can stuff there that can widen this tip for good.

Also I can't get used to this right click no matter what - some occasional misclicks are there.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teroteki*
> 
> G102 cable lasted about 10 months


mine like 2 or 3..


----------



## abso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skumrat*
> 
> My WMO1.1A is starting to die finally. I'm going to get one of these to replace it. Will it actually be any noticeably better? Seems to me like the WMO1.1A is already "good enough".


WMO had way better shape and weight/balance. Also WMO has straight sides which make it really easy to lift off. Feels so much more agile than gpro/102. G102 has better button, sensor, mousewheel and calbe. I play better with my wmo then my g102/gpro.


----------



## harrisonchew10

Guys I recently just bought a logitech G102 black and it works fine until I updated the firmware (8000 dpi) and it stopped working and just keep blinking a blue light.
Anyone can help me fix it?


----------



## Gech

My Logitech g102 after 5-6 months started to double click (left button) and it is kinda annoying... If I open the mouse so I can fix should I use new mousefeet afterwards or can I use the current one?


----------



## Evgennius

You can, I did, they re-applied okay. Obviously not like fresh feet. Then again, my pad is not the best and I am not picky, your mileage may vary.

I then tore it open for a second time and now I am with no feet at all for a time being. (its manageable actually) [note: cloth pad]


----------



## Unsaid90

So I haven't touched my g102 software for a while, a year maybe. Today I updated it, then the pop up appeared that my mouse wanted new firmware, so I also got that too.
Has anyone else noticed any positive or negative changes yet or is it just a stupid option to get more dpi, that makes no difference whatsoever ?


----------



## Some Tech Nub

The G203 has had its max dpi increased do 8000. I would assume the G102 had something similar.

Edit: oops you already mentioned dpi, ignore me


----------



## revoc

Any reason to get the G Pro over the G102/G203 these days?


----------



## daniel0731ex

if you want a worse cable.


----------



## FeDoK

And a tighter mouse 3 click.


----------



## BobBobFSGG

Would appreciate G Pro/G203/G102 users chiming in:

1) Anyone with the white G203/102, are side buttons glossy like the black G Pro/G203/G102 or matte plastic? I can't really tell from the pics - some (like Logitech renders) looks glossy, but IRL photos looks more like matte. For comparison, Battlefield 1 G Pro seems to have glossy side buttons in renders, but matte IRL;
2) Anyone with both G203/102 and G Pro, are side buttons easier to activate/click on the former compared to latter? Are click feels the same to you or some are more pronounced (though i guess we can't rule out switch variances)?

After gifting nephew my G102, i've got myself free new G Pro and just trying it out of box without using it:

- the scroll wheel switch is more pronounced in both scrolling up/down and actuation, but is firmer/harder to press/spam compared to G102. I guess it's a trade off, not sure i personally like it though - would have prefered pronounced scrolling (like G Pro) coupled with lighter actuation (like G102);
- side buttons tactile feedback seems pretty pronounced, firm/hard to press. I actually don't remember how G102 side buttons felt, but i didn't have any problems with them. I guess they were lighter on my G102 too, same as the scroll wheel? That's why asked 2nd question at the beginning;
- G Pro (UV?) coating seems to make my hands sweat. In comparison black G102's uncoated textured ABS was very grippy and pleasant to the touch. Just holding G Pro and rotating my hand on it get very slippery. Intersingly enough, i don't remember having any problems with the G303;
- main buttons seems the same on both mice - light/spammable. Didn't have any problems with accidental activation/clicks or resting my fingers on G102 and doesn't seems like there are any with G Pro.

So pretty much thinking of getting myself G203 again, this time in white, instead of G Pro. Still have unused Hyperglides/Paracord i've got myself for G Pro. Dunno if i would've bothered getting Paracord if i kept G102, stock cable was fine.


----------



## lainx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BobBobFSGG*
> 
> Would appreciate G Pro/G203/G102 users chiming in:
> 
> 1) Anyone with the white G203/102, are side buttons glossy like the black G Pro/G203/G102 or matte plastic? I can't really tell from the pics - some (like Logitech renders) looks glossy, but IRL photos looks more like matte. For comparison, Battlefield 1 G Pro seems to have glossy side buttons in renders, but matte IRL;
> 2) Anyone with both G203/102 and G Pro, are side buttons easier to activate/click on the former compared to latter? Are click feels the same to you or some are more pronounced (though i guess we can't rule out switch variances)?
> 
> After gifting nephew my G102, i've got myself free new G Pro and just trying it out of box without using it:
> 
> - the scroll wheel switch is more pronounced in both scrolling up/down and actuation, but is firmer/harder to press/spam compared to G102. I guess it's a trade off, not sure i personally like it though - would have prefered pronounced scrolling (like G Pro) coupled with lighter actuation (like G102);
> - side buttons tactile feedback seems pretty pronounced, firm/hard to press. I actually don't remember how G102 side buttons felt, but i didn't have any problems with them. I guess they were lighter on my G102 too, same as the scroll wheel? That's why asked 2nd question at the beginning;
> - G Pro (UV?) coating seems to make my hands sweat. In comparison black G102's uncoated textured ABS was very grippy and pleasant to the touch. Just holding G Pro and rotating my hand on it get very slippery. Intersingly enough, i don't remember having any problems with the G303;
> - main buttons seems the same on both mice - light/spammable. Didn't have any problems with accidental activation/clicks or resting my fingers on G102 and doesn't seems like there are any with G Pro.
> 
> So pretty much thinking of getting myself G203 again, this time in white, instead of G Pro. Still have unused Hyperglides/Paracord i've got myself for G Pro. Dunno if i would've bothered getting Paracord if i kept G102, stock cable was fine.


1. Yea, they're glossy.
2. Clicks felt marginally better on G203/102, but i'd chalk it up to just manufacture variances.
LMB/RMB were easier to press on my g203/102 (lighter, kinda bad imo).
Scroll wheel was perfect on G203/102. Stupid hard to press on my G Pro. Desoldered it and switched it (but has broken now because i'm a moron).
G203/102 sensor felt a bit different from the G pro but honestly i'm thinking just placebo. Maybe. I dunno.


----------



## jd1ms4

My G102IC has started spinning out and drifting frequently after a month of usage. Made sure there wasn't any hair or anything blocking the sensor. Really liked the mouse otherwise. Might get a G403 next, or perhaps Nixeus Revel.


----------



## Zenity07

I've been using mine for a few months now, and I pretty much love everything about it. Shape is simple but nice, weight is nice, buttons are perfect (including the wheel action and push), cable is very nice. No issues with the sensor whatsoever.

I use a light fingertip grip and anything that makes it easier for me to lift the mouse is a good thing in my book. So the V shape of the sides feels very very good to me. I can see how people using a claw grip would feel differently about this.

With the grip I use I can't comfortably use the forward thumb button, but that is normal for small mice. If they put it where I could use them comfortably, the thumb button would probably become unusable for other grips. Thumb buttons only ever seem to be perfect for my grip with larger mice, like the G502 for some reason. I think one usable thumb button is good enough in any case.

If there's anything I could imagine being better about this mouse then it's the grip. The body feels extremely smooth like a perfectly rounded rock, which mostly is a good thing and very comfortable. But when my hands are very dry or somewhat sweaty, then it sometimes feels too slippery. In an ideal world I would be using a mouse like a G102 with either a body that provides perfect stability with exactly my fingertip grip, or has a rubber coating that never wears off. But I'm not holding my breath for either...


----------



## Melan

New LGS 8.96.88 released. Comes with firmware update for G102 and G203.
Quote:


> Added a firmware update for the G102 and G203 to increase the max sensor DPI to 8000.


----------



## smaizy

Anypne tried HyperX mousepad with G102? I've started to use them couple of days ago and mouse glides very horrible. Noticed that many people here suggest to replace stock feet, but I have to wait about month to get them because of shipping time. I thought what if change my mousepad to QCK? Cause HyperX feels like "too much of control" or something like that, will qck be faster in terms of gliding? Or the only solution for g102 is to buy custom feet like Hyperglides?

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## benzto33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smaizy*
> 
> Anypne tried HyperX mousepad with G102? I've started to use them couple of days ago and mouse glides very horrible. Noticed that many people here suggest to replace stock feet, but I have to wait about month to get them because of shipping time. I thought what if change my mousepad to QCK? Cause HyperX feels like "too much of control" or something like that, will qck be faster in terms of gliding? Or the only solution for g102 is to buy custom feet like Hyperglides?
> 
> P.S. Sorry for my bad english.


I am using hyperX fury pro mousepad and compare to qck+ (with team logo) my g102 glide slower


----------



## smaizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benzto33*
> 
> I am using hyperX fury pro mousepad and compare to qck+ (with team logo) my g102 glide slower


Are you on stock glides? And how you think is there any reason to change it to black qck(2mm)? Will it get better?


----------



## FeDoK

Well, after 9 months of use wheel encoder decided to die.


----------



## Oneyedrunk

I recently purchased the G203 and I'm loving it, except for the LMB click. Its a bit harder than the RMB and it feels harder to double click. I suppose I will either get used to it or maybe it would be better in time once its worn in.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> Well, after 9 months of use wheel encoder decided to die.


Have you tried blowing a little bit of contact spray into the encoder yet?


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Have you tried blowing a little bit of contact spray into the encoder yet?


I returned it, should get a replacement within 21 days. I'm pretty sure this encoder is done though, not my 1st mouse with such problem. Anyway the shell got polished so hard that it became pretty much glossy and I'm actually happy that I finally found a reason to replace it.


----------



## gene-z

Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.

Seems like a 2017 review of the G203 says it still has the really light clicks?


----------



## smaizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.
> 
> Seems like a 2017 review of the G203 says it still has the really light clicks?


Never had this problem, maybe it's cause my mouse is proper or cause my fingers always in tense, i don't put them on buttons.

Could anyone suggest what custom feet should I buy for my g102? Hyperglides are the best choice or there's something better in terms of faster gliding?


----------



## Zorgon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.


I've been using a GPro since release and bought a white G203 on Black Friday to do a shell swap. My G203 has significantly stiffer and more tactile mouse buttons, and this persisted after the shell swap as well. I am very cognisant of the amount of force required on the RMB in particular as I play a lot of League of Legends.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zorgon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using a GPro since release and bought a white G203 on Black Friday to do a shell swap. My G203 has significantly stiffer and more tactile mouse buttons, and this persisted after the shell swap as well. I am very cognisant of the amount of force required on the RMB in particular as I play a lot of League of Legends.
Click to expand...

The exact opposite for me.
Have a early batch G pro with very light clicks, bought a G102 white which had much stiffer clicks. But the clicks are part of the switch itself and not the shell.
Swapped my G pro to the white G102, clicks are the same, light on G pro with G102 shell, and stiff on G102 in G pro shell.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.
> 
> Seems like a 2017 review of the G203 says it still has the really light clicks?


What isn't broken shouldn't be fixed. I love the clicks on the G102.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> What isn't broken shouldn't be fixed. I love the clicks on the G102.


Unusual in that such a poorly priced mouse they have the BEST feeling switches, don't know why they (Logitech) chose to go down that route when usually you spend over $100USD on a high end product, you expect the very best switches to be installed but frequently it isn't.

Bought a White Model G203 for the youngest because she wanted a mouse that goes with her Varmilo Sakura Keyboard.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Did they ever fix the hyper-sensitive clicks on these? I can't even rest my finger on the right button without accidentally clicking it every 2mins on both my black and white G102's.
> 
> Seems like a 2017 review of the G203 says it still has the really light clicks?


They haven't changed a thing, it's always been like 95% chance you'll get too light switches, and some false rumours have spread about improved batches when people have gotten lucky.


----------



## arandomguy

For what it's worth I tried 3 G Pros over Black Friday 2016. They were all I believe batch 1638s and the lmb/rmb clicks were way too light (accidental clicks even resting or swiping) while the middle was stiff.

Bought a batch 1648 (must've been an early shipment just sitting on the self still) black G203 this Black Friday and the lmb/rmb was quite stiffer, no more accidents other then lift and slams on RMB with testing. MMB was also the lightest and best I've ever tried even more so than the KPOE I also bought.

This is with a palm grip.


----------



## FeDoK

In my experience g102 had one of the stiffest clicks I've ever had probably on par with FK1 if not even slightly stiffer. Kinda scarred of getting a replacement with light clicks.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> In my experience g102 had one of the stiffest clicks I've ever had probably on par with FK1 if not even slightly stiffer. Kinda scarred of getting a replacement with light clicks.


theyre not stiff but clicky and bad for spam clicking problem is switch is compresses against the buttons


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> theyre not stiff but clicky and bad for spam clicking problem is switch is compresses against the buttons


I had no problem spamming it and I actually prefer 10m Omrons over 20m Omrons since they feel a bit crispier, but not as crisp as blue shell Huanos though.


----------



## smaizy

Those who have used Hyperglides, could you tell me if it's nessesary to remove stock ring around the sensor, cause hotline and corepad has it. what should i do for best gliding, leave it or take off?


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smaizy*
> 
> Those who have used Hyperglides, could you tell me if it's nessesary to remove stock ring around the sensor, cause hotline and corepad has it. what should i do for best gliding, leave it or take off?


I'd leave it.

Small feet are kinda worse if you press down the click while moving the mouse.


----------



## RamGuy

I'm currently using the G Pro and I love it's shape and it's small size. It's one of very few mice that I can actually use with fingertip grip as I have rather small hands. The only thing I don't like with it is how slippery it is.. My brother just got the G403 and its way too big for me but it has this nice anti-glide coating on the sides.... Where is that on my G Pro?? It would have made it perfect.

Some rumours has it that the G203 supposedly have better grip on the sides compared to the G Pro. Can someone confirm or deny this?


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamGuy*
> 
> Some rumours has it that the G203 supposedly have better grip on the sides compared to the G Pro. Can someone confirm or deny this?


same shell


----------



## wonderboysam

Are the feet still the same as they were at release? Tempted to order a new one just in case, don't seem to see anyone complaining about them these days


----------



## Imdrasil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Are the feet still the same as they were at release? Tempted to order a new one just in case, don't seem to see anyone complaining about them these days


I think they changed them, I bought my G203 like 1 week ago and specifically checked it the glides, and they do indeed appear to have rounded edges. The complaint was that the glides had sharp edges and would cause poor glide, something that I personally can attest to is no longer the case.


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imdrasil*
> 
> I think they changed them, I bought my G203 like 1 week ago and specifically checked it the glides, and they do indeed appear to have rounded edges. The complaint was that the glides had sharp edges and would cause poor glide, something that I personally can attest to is no longer the case.


They were always rounded. G102/203/Pro feet are made of not that great teflon and are poorly applied which results in a very uncontrollable glide and feels grainy. However they get a lot better after few months of use.


----------



## Imdrasil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> They were always rounded. G102/203/Pro feet are made of not that great teflon and are poorly applied which results in a very uncontrollable glide and feels grainy. However they get a lot better after few months of use.


Must be a combination of what mousepad you use with the mouse because I don't have this "grainy" issue.


----------



## SmashTV

Reddit claims the new firmware update causes acceleration. Can anyone with the mouse and mouse tester run more exhaustive tests to be sure?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Reddit claims


----------



## SmashTV

I normally wouldn't bother, but it's gaining traction. Already told the OP over there that using MS Paint to test accel isn't as accurate as using mousetester data but he seems adamant that it is enough.









I'm, still horribly scarred from r0ach era so any thorough analysis would be welcomed from me.


----------



## Frosted racquet

This? http://www.overclock.net/t/1637318/lgs-8-96-81-g102-and-g203-firmware-update-to-increase-the-max-sensor-dpi-to-8000#post_26460502
I can confirm that it has acceleration, no scientific tests though.


----------



## Melan

Confirm with what?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Place a limiter on one side of the mouse, flick it the other way and return it to its original location


----------



## Melan

In what environment?


----------



## Frosted racquet

CSGO


----------



## m1hka

There's no accel on the latest (and any other) firmware in csgo. With m_rawinput 1 though, because rinpit 0 is unusable @ win10.
Knowing Logitech I highly doubt that updating firmware could cause acceleration.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> same shell


Same shell, but the 102/203 lacks coating on the sides. Feels more rough.

The g pro feels closer to zowie coating, while the g102 feels closer to steelseries 310 top coating.

For me the 102 coating is a lot grippier in moist hands, while g pro is easier to grip with really dry hands


----------



## epic1337

i bought one a few days ago, gotta say its sleek and it fits my hands quite well.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> That's not up for debate.


Quote:


> There's no question that it's definitely, undeniably there, regardless of the perceived reliability or precision of those testing methods.


Quote:


> By going back and redoing the tests with mousetester, the question we are trying to answer isn't "is there acceleration?" but rather, "what is the nature of this acceleration, where is it coming from, what is the precise amount, and is there any way to fix it?"


----------



## wareya

or just plug both mice in at the same time and see if they move in sync at wildly different physical speeds in mouse comparator?

not hard

also last night I experienced a weird form of illustration snagging with my kone pure owl eye while using FL studio, there was a point on the mousepad and direction to move the mouse where it felt like it was skidding and not moving far enough overall. might go back to my G203 because of that, not sure.


----------



## Bashslash

`anyone have side to side pics of this mouse?


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bashslash*
> 
> `anyone have side to side pics of this mouse?


which side?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> which side?


West-Side


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> which side?
> 
> 
> 
> West-Side
Click to expand...

here, i also took a bottom pic while i was at it.


----------



## Bashslash

where you'll normally grip your thumb and pinky/ring finger at(palm grip). Just want pics of the side of the possible and if possible, a comparison to other mosue sizes.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bashslash*
> 
> where you'll normally grip your thumb and pinky/ring finger at(palm grip). Just want pics of the side of the possible and if possible, a comparison to other mosue sizes.


the mouse is symmetrical, it looks exactly like the left-side minus the buttons.


----------



## FeDoK

Just recieved a replacement of my G102. New I have a lens rattle, yay.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FeDoK*
> 
> Well, after 9 months of use wheel encoder decided to die.


Just recieved a replacement. Clicks are noticably lighter but still totally usable, coating seems a bit different, less grainy on the sides, but it has lens rattle. Test is done at 8000 DPI but it is still noticable at 400 DPI.


----------



## Alya

Sounds like a baby rattle.


----------



## j0hn

How well does the g102 work on an artisan raiden?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Neshy414

So i've got a bit of a weird issue, plugged in my G102 again after a couple months and for some reason it isn't recognised in LGS anymore. Already rolled back to 8.94 LGS, purged the mouse drivers, reinstalled/updated them via the method Logitech recommends, and also plugged a second G102 in which is also not recognised. LGS just says "No devices detected".

Both mice work completely fine, and my G-Pro, as well as my G403 do show up in LGS when they are plugged in, just not these G102's. Does someone know what could be going on?

Edit: quick addition, i know that they were recognised in LGS before as i did update my main G102's firmware with the update that came in 8.96, however i did not update the other one so i guess that has nothing to do with it since they are both not recognised.


----------



## Johan450

Neshy414 said:


> So i've got a bit of a weird issue, plugged in my G102 again after a couple months and for some reason it isn't recognised in LGS anymore. Already rolled back to 8.94 LGS, purged the mouse drivers, reinstalled/updated them via the method Logitech recommends, and also plugged a second G102 in which is also not recognised. LGS just says "No devices detected".
> 
> Both mice work completely fine, and my G-Pro, as well as my G403 do show up in LGS when they are plugged in, just not these G102's. Does someone know what could be going on?
> 
> Edit: quick addition, i know that they were recognised in LGS before as i did update my main G102's firmware with the update that came in 8.96, however i did not update the other one so i guess that has nothing to do with it since they are both not recognised.


I had issues with LGS not finding my g100s unless I ran it as administrator. Tried that?


----------



## Neshy414

Johan450 said:


> I had issues with LGS not finding my g100s unless I ran it as administrator. Tried that?


Should've thought of that myself silly me, that worked. Thank you man, good shout!


----------



## DaoNayt

Hey peeps

I have a G102, but its not shown anywhere in the Device Manager. I saw it listed by name during instalation of LGS but then it got replaced by a generic driver. Also LGS added abunch of these HID devices. Is this normal and could this be the reason I'm getting a weird 1 second stutter every now and then in every game? I'm on Win7 x64.


----------



## Melan

Yes, it's normal. I have 9 entries in HID section. All of them are my wireless G403. You can disable almost all of them except 1 or 2 USB INPUT DEVICE entries which are required to operate the mouse. That's not why you get stutters I recon though.


----------



## bellissimo

..


----------



## bellissimo

DaoNayt said:


> Hey peeps
> 
> I have a G102, but its not shown anywhere in the Device Manager. I saw it listed by name during instalation of LGS but then it got replaced by a generic driver. Also LGS added abunch of these HID devices. Is this normal and could this be the reason I'm getting a weird 1 second stutter every now and then in every game? I'm on Win7 x64.


You can try to setup your G102 using LGS, save settings to mouse, then uninstall it


----------



## DaoNayt

I tried with everything uninstalled and just running the mouse alone. I deleted LGS, disconnected the mouse, deleted all the HID and input devices, and then connected it back so only the basic functionality is restored. It made no diference, either with the stutters, or the name in the Device Manager.

BTW I dont really see any use for LGS, I don't need the profiles or lighting customisation.


----------



## Melan

Then don't install it. I only use it to check battery percentage. Other than that it's useless.


----------



## animeowns

ND9512 said:


> 
> Just wonder what sensor does it have, AM010 can not go that high ?


wheres a logitech g9x mouse at with the updated g900 sensor


----------



## Leopardi

animeowns said:


> wheres a logitech g9x mouse at with the updated g900 sensor


Hopefully nowhere unless they fix the changeable grips becoming loose and clanky first.


----------



## Johan450

Leopardi said:


> Hopefully nowhere unless they fix the changeable grips becoming loose and clanky first.


Gotta use it without grips man


----------



## LeetGrandpa

Just wanted to give my 2 cents regarding solution for soft buttons on g102/203/pro.

I replaced the stock chinese omron switches with blue dot huanos (supposedly the stiffest, although all are rated at 75gf, the same as regular omrons). It's better now, and it's just at the limit where the mouse becomes usable for me. The difference isn't big, but it is there, and I like the feel. Stock omrons are 75gf activation force, and the huanos are supposed to be the same, so either the huanos are ~5gf stiffer, or the omrons are ~5g lighter than rated.

I have 2 sets of omrons on the way as well (rated at 100gf and 150gf ). Will report when they arrive.

Also, using hyperglides and paracord cable, the mouse is a dream now 

So, if you are facing the same issue, just replace the switches, you can get them on aliexpress for really cheap.


----------



## HoldYrPistlstr8

Bump.

I just basically impulse bought a G203, coming from the Nixeus Revel. Initial impressions:

+ The sensor is pretty responsive. Doesn't feel as snappy as the 3360, but it's smooth and tracks well.
+ The scroll wheel is better than the Revel's.
~ Clicks are pretty light. Not really an issue for me.
~ Cord is average. Mousefeet are average.
- Shape is really bad. I'm fingertip egg-holding it. Ironically, this has increased my accuracy, but I'll likely get sore as a result.
- Sides are rough and really bad for sweaty hands.
- Side buttons have really tight tension and are shaped really oddly. 

I'm not a big fan of it, but I did just break my PR in Aimtastic with it in the first few hours, sooo.....


----------



## Leopardi

HoldYrPistlstr8 said:


> Bump.
> 
> I just basically impulse bought a G203, coming from the Nixeus Revel. Initial impressions:
> 
> 
> ~ Clicks are pretty light. Not really an issue for me.
> - Shape is really bad. I'm fingertip egg-holding it. Ironically, this has increased my accuracy, but I'll likely get sore as a result.
> 
> 
> I'm not a big fan of it, but I did just break my PR in Aimtastic with it in the first few hours, sooo.....


With G100s sides and G303 buttons it would be a killer... oh well, gotta hope Astrum gets close to that, since Logitech doesn't care.


----------



## HoldYrPistlstr8

Leopardi said:


> With G100s sides and G303 buttons it would be a killer... oh well, gotta hope Astrum gets close to that, since Logitech doesn't care.


Personally, if the Revel had the G203 scroll and clicks, I'd probably consider it an endgame mouse. Then again, I have yet to try G403 clicks, Kone Pure Military/Owl-Eye scroll, or Zowie shapes.

I wrote up a small review on reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/89m5j5/review_my_g203_experience_why_it_was_brief/



> The Good:
> 
> The clicks are very crisp, light, and responsive. They don't take a lot of force to press, so I'd say if you need to spam clicks, it's heaven. Slight comfort grooves are the cherry on top.
> The scroll wheel is nice. Tensioning is even and fairly tight, but not so much where it requires a lot of force to scroll. The bumps provide very accurate feedback.
> The sensor is accurate and responsive enough. It holds up well to the 3360 and doesn't spin out.
> The cord is flexible while not being flimsy.
> Pretty lights.
> 
> The Bad:
> 
> The infamous shape. I have not found a way to grip this comfortably, and the culprit comes down to the sides. They're a semi-roughly textured plastic, sloping inwards diagonally. I have sweaty hands, and these sides are slippery. The longer I play with it, the more anxious I get over slip n' sliding at a crucial moment.
> The problem with fingertipping this mouse is that since the thumb and ring/pinky are the only means of support, having the sides slope diagonally downwards means a slip towards the bottom, or sideways, during quick movements. In contrast, the Revel has a slight, curving slope with grippy plastic sides, which means that my thumb and ring/pinky don't go anywhere unless I want them to.
> 
> The low profile offers no comfortable palm support for my hand. I don't think anyone with hands around 18 cm in length will be able to palm this mouse without riding the hump all the way and having the pointer fingers overhang the left/right click buttons.
> 
> The side buttons are small, tight, and awkwardly shaped, triangular instead of rectangular.
> 
> Every time I boot my computer, the Logitech Gaming Software does not detect my G203.
> I do understand that the G203 has onboard memory, so I can set it and forget it without ever needing to use the software again, but the way I have LGS detect my mouse is by going to the Program Files folder and running the firmware updater for my mouse in administrator mode. No amount of unplugging and re-plugging it in different USB slots or rebooting gets it to detect the mouse, just running the firmware updater does.





> I think it's the texturing in tandem with the inward diagonal slopes that make it so hard to consistently grip it in a fingertip shape. I know the low profile makes palming it out of the question unless one's hands are incredibly small, but I suppose my preference is to have some semblance of a hump along with gradually sloping sides when I claw.
> 
> I agree with your statement about the width. Putting my hand on top of it without conforming to a grip results in my thumb and ring/pinky in the air. In contrast, the Revel's shape naturally conforms my thumb and ring/pinky to the sides. Not a very objective measurement, but it does say something about my fingertip grip needing to pinch the sides.
> 
> I do think $15 is a very good price for this mouse, but caveat emptor - this is a love or hate shape.
> 
> Again, with the way I fingertip grip, since the thumb and ring/pinky are my only sources of support (especially considering the light LMB/RMB clicks), having side buttons with tight tensioning makes it a difficult press in high action situations. The click itself is fine in isolation, but in the context of the mouse's shape and grip style it lends itself to, I dislike the side buttons.


----------



## queerquirks

I just got my second G102. The first was bought in July last year and returned within a week due to the tight scroll wheel (resulting in accidental middle clicks).

For this new pair, the scroll wheel is perfect but the LMB and RMB seems to be less good for spammy clicks. It's noticeable when I double-click to open stuff, the first click does not seem to bounce back quickly, sort of sticky on every click. Nothing wrong with the light button tension. Is this an issue on the GPro too?


----------



## Nx87

queerquirks said:


> I just got my second G102. The first was bought in July last year and returned within a week due to the tight scroll wheel (resulting in accidental middle clicks).
> 
> For this new pair, the scroll wheel is perfect but the LMB and RMB seems to be less good for spammy clicks. It's noticeable when I double-click to open stuff, the first click does not seem to bounce back quickly, sort of sticky on every click. Nothing wrong with the light button tension. Is this an issue on the GPro too?


You can swap the top shell to the new mouse, it is the shell that changes the feeling of the clicks, not the switch underneath.
My new G203 has totally different clicks vs. my old one too, but I prefer them... stiffer, no accidental presses.


----------



## mksteez

Hows the 203 coating compare to the G Pro? Thinking of getting a white G203 and put G Pro internals


----------



## Some Tech Nub

People swap shells all the time. Should be fine.


----------



## venerus

Im dont know Rival 100 or g102. I think rival 100 form will be better, and g102 is a simple piece of office plastic with good sensor, but they are equally worth it (from Ali)
What should I buy? (for small 16.5cm hand)


----------



## Ahnnn

venerus said:


> Im dont know Rival 100 or g102. I think rival 100 form will be better, and g102 is a simple piece of office plastic with good sensor, but they are equally worth it (from Ali)
> What should I buy? (for small 16.5cm hand)


I'd get the G102 for the better sensor and non weird dpi range. I have both and I prefer 102's shape as well.


----------



## the1freeMan

venerus said:


> Im dont know Rival 100 or g102. I think rival 100 form will be better, and g102 is a simple piece of office plastic with good sensor, but they are equally worth it (from Ali)
> What should I buy? (for small 16.5cm hand)


it's actualy better quality than a lot of more expensive crap


----------



## itsy0boi

Should I be worried if I'm getting a unit with S/N1651? I've just paid 23€ for my unit from Aliexpress, a white one.

Both of my G403s cost me 35€ some months ago.

Is there any problem that got fixed on newer batches produced after mine?

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Finnen

Owners of G102/G203, would you consider the shape, size and overall feeling (in hand) of this mouse to be similar to an extremely cheap Logitech B100? I had plenty of mice in my life, like Logitech MX518, Cooler Master Xornet I and II, Dream Machines DM1 Pro, Logitech G502 clone (Modecom GMX4 Plus) but I always have some "problem" with them. Most of them are either too slippery to me or they have rather short sides. Then my mother's mouse broke and I bought her this cheap, business Logitech B100 mouse. And you know what? I instantly fell in love with it once I put my hand on it. 

In terms of the shape, size, and materials Logitech B100 is the most comfortable mouse I have ever used. My grip is so good and strong on B100 that I don't need to correct in any way. On the other mouses, I had to constantly correct my grip. I usually use something like "loose, relaxed fingertip" grip and make my grip a bit more firm, maybe slightly claw-ish during the moments where I need the most precision. The B100 mouse seems to beat the dedicated gaming mice in terms of comfort for me, but obviously, it sucks in terms of the sensor quality.

So the perfect gaming mice for me would be B100 shape/size with side buttons and a gaming sensor. Would that be G102/G203? How does the Logitech G102/G203 compare to the cheap B100 when it comes to the shape, size, weight, and materials (coating)? Maybe there is something else you would recommend?


----------



## e4stw00t

The B100 seems to be fairly close to the G100, which in itself makes it fairly close to the G102 - not exactly the same but close enough for it to be worth for you to check out.


----------



## deepor

@Finnen:

For me those small Logitech shapes are all very similar to use, I like all of them. My skin is the type that never has problems with grip on any mouse so I can't say anything about the material being slippery or not. The sides of this mouse are simple plastic with a coarse texture, it has no rubber coating or anything special.


----------



## Finnen

Thanks @e4stw00t and @deepor 

I will probably try G102, for the current price it's a really good offer in Poland (around 25 USD). I am currently using the Modecom GMX4 Plus that I mentioned earlier, which is very similar in shape to Logitech G502, but it's a bit too heavy for my taste and I can't get a solid grip on it, especially with my pinky and ring finger on the right side. I was thinking about Rival 110, but I was told that the G102 is objectively a bit better choice. Plus if it really has at least similar shape to B100 (and from what I see it's quite similar) then I should be happy. When I put my hand on B100, I feel like it fits it like a glove


----------



## PrincessSlipper

305 way better than that thing, i gave my 203 away after putting alot of work into modding it and i still sucked. 305 weighs less and is wireless additionally and you can leave it factory. mercury is sluggish and weird.


----------



## e4stw00t

That's a bunch of nonsense.
The major difference is G305 being wirless - that's it.
If you don't mind the cable (and the G102's cable is decent, way better than a lot of stock cable used on other mice) the G102 is a solid choice.
Mercury is a solid sensor - hero being better? Yes, however if you perform much worse with the G102 than you simply lack consistency in your game and blame the sensor for it.
For 25 USD I highly recommend you to buy it in particular if you liked the B100 before - it's a major upgrade to that one!


----------



## itsy0boi

itsy0boi said:


> Should I be worried if I'm getting a unit with S/N1651? I've just paid 23€ for my unit from Aliexpress, a white one.
> 
> Both of my G403s cost me 35€ some months ago.
> 
> Is there any problem that got fixed on newer batches produced after mine?
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Any help ?


----------



## ithehappy

Guys does this G102 having the Mercury sensor comparable with a PMW3310 sensor? is it on par or better or worse? I use a Roccat KPM and looking for an upgrade, though at the cheapest cost.


----------



## vanir1337

ithehappy said:


> Guys does this G102 having the Mercury sensor comparable with a PMW3310 sensor? is it on par or better or worse? I use a Roccat KPM and looking for an upgrade, though at the cheapest cost.


Different, I wouldn't call it better, nor worse. Also the G102 is more like a downgrade from the KPM in terms of build quality, materials, etc.


----------



## ithehappy

vanir1337 said:


> Different, I wouldn't call it better, nor worse. Also the G102 is more like a downgrade from the KPM in terms of build quality, materials, etc.


Well my KPM is skipping clicks and double clicking, all the same time, and its two years old, not that extensively used either, so my trust on build quality of expensive mice is down the drain. In any case, what could be considered an upgrade from the KPM, maintaining its form factor, and weight? I have to stick with Logitech because of their two-year warranty policy where I live, whilst all others have one-year only. These are the mice available: https://www.logitechg.com/en-in/products/gaming-mice.html

Thanks in advance.

PS: I am fingertip cum claw grip sort of, with 19/9.5 palm size.


----------



## deepor

ithehappy said:


> Well my KPM is skipping clicks and double clicking, all the same time, and its two years old, not that extensively used either, so my trust on build quality of expensive mice is down the drain. In any case, what could be considered an upgrade from the KPM, maintaining its form factor, and weight? I have to stick with Logitech because of their two-year warranty policy where I live, whilst all others have one-year only. These are the mice available: https://www.logitechg.com/en-in/products/gaming-mice.html
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> PS: I am fingertip cum claw grip sort of, with 19/9.5 palm size.



You can try to oil the switches on your KPM. This worked to fix double-click issues on several mice for me. About what this means exactly:

Open the mouse so that you can get to the switch. Put a drop of oil on top of the switch where the plunger is. Then click the plunger with the tip of a screw driver until the drop of oil has disappeared inside the switch.

The oil I used for this was a type of mineral oil. Something intended for sewing machines or weapons is good for this.


----------



## itsy0boi

itsy0boi said:


> Should I be worried if I'm getting a unit with S/N1651? I've just paid 23€ for my unit from Aliexpress, a white one.
> 
> Both of my G403s cost me 35€ some months ago.
> 
> Is there any problem that got fixed on newer batches produced after mine?
> 
> Thank you for your time.


???


----------



## itsy0boi

itsy0boi said:


> Should I be worried if I'm getting a unit with S/N1651? I've just paid 23€ for my unit from Aliexpress, a white one.
> 
> Both of my G403s cost me 35€ some months ago.
> 
> Is there any problem that got fixed on newer batches produced after mine?
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Does someone got a lead on this ?


----------



## e4stw00t

No since there are no widespread issues to begin with - if you don't get a faulty unit which Logitech has probably lower rates than a lot of other companies to begin with you are fine.


----------



## itsy0boi

e4stw00t said:


> No since there are no widespread issues to begin with - if you don't get a faulty unit which Logitech has probably lower rates than a lot of other companies to begin with you are fine.


Thanks.

I was asking this since I found some posts regarding that the coating might change depending on the S/N unit.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Testing and reviewing one of these. Anything anyone wants me to test before I finish the review and return the mouse?


----------



## Elrick

MaximilianKohler said:


> Testing and reviewing one of these. Anything anyone wants me to test before I finish the review and return the mouse?


Is there anyway to adjust PC settings so that the mouse NEVER goes into sleep mode because when you move this model, it freezes for a few seconds before waking up.

It's almost like some old Dog, that falls to sleep yet when you brush past him he takes a long time to get back on his feet. Why didn't Logitech fix this already?


----------



## vanir1337

Elrick said:


> Is there anyway to adjust PC settings so that the mouse NEVER goes into sleep mode because when you move this model, it freezes for a few seconds before waking up.
> 
> It's almost like some old Dog, that falls to sleep yet when you brush past him he takes a long time to get back on his feet. Why didn't Logitech fix this already?


I've used a G102 for months, and this never happened on my setup.


----------



## Jspinks020

well one of them I actually like g40 or something quit tracking right and stuff.


----------



## vanir1337

Jspinks020 said:


> well one of them I actually like g40 or something quit tracking right and stuff.


wat


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## Elrick

vanir1337 said:


> I've used a G102 for months, and this never happened on my setup.



Is that also the same with the G203 series as well? No problems whatsoever in regards to the sensor falling asleep at odd times?


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## MaximilianKohler

Review and comparison: Logitech gaming mouse G102/203, G403


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## Gamer001

Guys where i find the original firmware for the mouse? I need the exe file with the original firmware, exist?


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## ApT01

I have a problem where my 102 only illuminates in red, if I try to set it to any other color then depending on the amount of red channel it either darkens or goes completely black. Has anyone experienced this before? I set it to red about a year ago and back then all the colors were working, so imagine my surprise when I tried to change it yesterday and this happens!
Any advice guys?


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## Melan

Try resetting the mouse in LGS or GHub and then yanking RGB sliders around. Try both onboard and local profiles. It'd be hella weird if 2 other LEDs straight up died for some reason.


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## ApT01

Melan said:


> Try resetting the mouse in LGS or GHub and then yanking RGB sliders around. Try both onboard and local profiles. It'd be hella weird if 2 other LEDs straight up died for some reason.


You're right. From disassembly videos I've learned that there are 3 different RGB leds inside, it would be strange if they all failed and only the red channel worked on all three of them. Thats why I'm hoping this is a software thing.
I've tried multiple versions of LGS and GHub and still no change. I'm trying to reflash the firmware or find some way to wipe the onboard memory but I'm not having any luck finding any info on that.


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