# Athlon 860K, any one picking it up?



## bucdan

I'm curious how well this CPU is being perceived and if anyone has any review on it currently. I know it was said to perform roughly the same as the a10-7850k.


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## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> I'm curious how well this CPU is being perceived and if anyone has any review on it currently. I know it was said to perform roughly the same as the a10-7850k.


on which task?


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## bucdan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PontiacGTX*
> 
> on which task?


Almost everything except for the graphical department of course. If it is the cpu power of the 7850, then I might get it to replace my unlocked Phenom and run a mini itx build.


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## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> Almost everything except for the graphical department of course. If it is the cpu power of the 7850, then I might get it to replace my unlocked Phenom and run a mini itx build.


I would but if your application need many threads and fx 8320 is also another option


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## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> Almost everything except for the graphical department of course. If it is the cpu power of the 7850, then I might get it to replace my unlocked Phenom and run a mini itx build.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> Almost everything except for the graphical department of course. If it is the cpu power of the 7850, then I might get it to replace my unlocked Phenom and run a mini itx build.


At this point a 750K, 760K and 860K are pretty comparable to a 965BE. Anand Bench has them pretty much neck and neck. When I run my A10-5800K at 4.4 GHz with the same discrete card as my 965 BE at 4.2 GHz I get pretty much the same framerates. People have reported lukewarm overclocking results on the cpu side with the A10-7850K.


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## NaroonGTX

Well the 860k is nothing more than a batch of Kaveri chips that bad GPU's, so they fused them off and sell them as Athlon's. They will perform the same as the Kaveri APU's clock-for-clock since they have the same core architecture and cache sizes.
Quote:


> People have reported lukewarm overclocking results on the cpu side with the A10-7850K.


Yeah, the CPU side would top out at 4.5ghz on average, and the 860k won't fare any better, so it most likely wouldn't be a better buy than the 760k is since the 760k can OC higher, negating most of the IPC improvements.


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## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Well the 860k is nothing more than a batch of Kaveri chips that bad GPU's, so they fused them off and sell them as Athlon's. They will perform the same as the Kaveri APU's clock-for-clock since they have the same core architecture and cache sizes.
> Yeah, the CPU side would top out at 4.5ghz on average, and the 860k won't fare any better, so it most likely wouldn't be a better buy than the 760k is since the 760k can OC higher, negating most of the IPC improvements.


I think enthusiasts would buy the 860K out of curiosity. I would really love to get a ASUS Crossblade Ranger and build a machine around it. Except that I keep thinking my 6300 and 8320 machines are ultimately better because of the core counts and L3.


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## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Well the 860k is nothing more than a batch of Kaveri chips that bad GPU's, so they fused them off and sell them as Athlon's. They will perform the same as the Kaveri APU's clock-for-clock since they have the same core architecture and cache sizes.
> Yeah, the CPU side would top out at 4.5ghz on average, and the 860k won't fare any better, so it most likely wouldn't be a better buy than the 760k is since the 760k can OC higher, negating most of the IPC improvements.


Odd, the 860k was reported to only have 2mb L2 when it was paper-launched. Now it's showing up as having 4mb L2 cache. While that's a positive for the 860k, this fact would make it appear to be Kaveri with a failed GPU. The previously-reported cache configuration made it appear as though it came from its own wafer.


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## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Odd, the 860k was reported to only have 2mb L2 when it was paper-launched. Now it's showing up as having 4mb L2 cache. While that's a positive for the 860k, this fact would make it appear to be Kaveri with a failed GPU. The previously-reported cache configuration made it appear as though it came from its own wafer.


Yeah, I'm not really sure why they would report them as having 2MB instead of 4MB L2$. I don't think half of the L2$ cluster can be shut off like that, since each module has 2MB of L2$. I do know that the upcoming Carrizo will have 1MB of L2$ per module rather than 2MB.


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## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Yeah, I'm not really sure why they would report them as having 2MB instead of 4MB L2$. I don't think half of the L2$ cluster can be shut off like that, since each module has 2MB of L2$. I do know that the upcoming Carrizo will have 1MB of L2$ per module rather than 2MB.


It was possibly a typo, or someone assuming that the 860k was an early run of Carrizo with bad GPUs or something.


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## timerwin63

Honestly, I don't see a reason to "upgrade" from a G3258 to an 860K.


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## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *timerwin63*
> 
> Honestly, I don't see a reason to "upgrade" from a G3258 to an 860K.


And how does this have anything to do with the thread?


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## timerwin63

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> And how does this have anything to do with the thread?


Whoops. Thought I saw OP mention it somewhere... Apparently I'm going crazy.


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## bucdan

I think I'll jump on it and test it out and see how it all goes. for $91+$95 board with some free ram from a buddy, I don't think I can go wrong.


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## OverCorrupt

im interested in this as well, still running an old athlon 64x2 6000, and this would be a nice cheap upgrade for me. wanted to hear a bit more feedback before jumping on it so let me know how it performs. even if its temporary i kind of want to get into the fm2+ socket, so it will be a nice transition piece.


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## papasteack

Got one, some overclocking issues, but i dont have a really good fan, and got cheap memory. Need more tweaking, and/or advices. But moreover need time to tweak !
I have a separate psu to get rock stable voltage for a hd7850 crossfire, running crysis 3 fluid in ultra in 1920 x 1080.


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## juanitox

I have been waiting for some reviews. This far I only found a thread on Anandtech's forums where the OP posted a link to some chinese review

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36735756


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## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverCorrupt*
> 
> im interested in this as well, still running an old athlon 64x2 6000, and this would be a nice cheap upgrade for me. wanted to hear a bit more feedback before jumping on it so let me know how it performs. even if its temporary i kind of want to get into the fm2+ socket, so it will be a nice transition piece.


FM2+ is backwards-compatible with Trinity and Richland and will support Carrizo. The entry-level boards are quite cheap. An 860k or 760k (Richland, I believe, using Piledriver cores) and a 2GB 750 or 750Ti would be a great budget build. The unlocked Pentium, the G3258, is also an option, but its two cores and no hyperthreading can potentially be a limitation.

I'd say that the 860k is probably the best FM-series CPU out there. The APUs' GPUs are just too weak if you want reliably good framerates at 1080p, and HSA has practically no adoption. Price is what, $90? That's great! Helps that the socket is current too. AM3+ is dead and I would avoid it, honestly. It still exists as AMD's "performance" platform until SkyBridge launches in a couple years.


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## OverCorrupt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> FM2+ is backwards-compatible with Trinity and Richland and will support Carrizo. The entry-level boards are quite cheap. An 860k or 760k (Richland, I believe, using Piledriver cores) and a 2GB 750 or 750Ti would be a great budget build. The unlocked Pentium, the G3258, is also an option, but its two cores and no hyperthreading can potentially be a limitation.
> 
> I'd say that the 860k is probably the best FM-series CPU out there. The APUs' GPUs are just too weak if you want reliably good framerates at 1080p, and HSA has practically no adoption. Price is what, $90? That's great! Helps that the socket is current too. AM3+ is dead and I would avoid it, honestly. It still exists as AMD's "performance" platform until SkyBridge launches in a couple years.


honestly only came back to the comp scene just recently. so did not realize it was backwards compatible, but good to know. I mean for 90$ for a great processor is a steal pretty much, so ill be going with the 860. was gonna grab the ASUS Crossblade Ranger as a mobo (not a cheap option i know, but plan to keep for a while).

as for the Vid Card, just picked up a asus 250x 2gb ddr5 Dual cooling fan for pretty cheap. so pretty recent on that front too. just have to worry bout CPU, mobo and Ram, which the setup id like to go with for now is about 400$. i dont skimp in certain places. just wanted to hear a bit more feedback before jumping on it.


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## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'd say that the 860k is probably the best FM-series CPU out there.


Only if it can overclock better than a typical 760K. The Steamroller core is about 10 percent faster than the Piledriver core in the Richlands, but the Kaveri 7850K is such a poor overclocker that a 760K or 6800K can easily outperform it on the CPU side with overclocking. If the 860K can't do better than 4.5 GHz, it's not worth spending any more money to get one as opposed to a 760K.

I'm hoping that the 28nm bulk process produces better clocks on its second go-round with Carrizo than it has with Kaveri.


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## NaroonGTX

I don't expect Carrizo to have 4ghz+ ranges of default operation outside of turbo frequencies. I think due to process node and the implementation of HDL, as well as some uArch changes, the clocks will mostly stay in the 3ghz+ range. I somehow get the feeling that Carrizo won't be an excellent overclocker. Guess we'll find out next year.


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## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Only if it can overclock better than a typical 760K. The Steamroller core is about 10 percent faster than the Piledriver core in the Richlands, but the Kaveri 7850K is such a poor overclocker that a 760K or 6800K can easily outperform it on the CPU side with overclocking. If the 860K can't do better than 4.5 GHz, it's not worth spending any more money to get one as opposed to a 760K.
> 
> I'm hoping that the 28nm bulk process produces better clocks on its second go-round with Carrizo than it has with Kaveri.


People say that, but where are the head-to-head tests? Can we even put one together from mixing different reviews? Sadly there haven't been enough 860k reviews out there to just link "4.5 ghz 860k vs 5 ghz 760k" and be done with it.

That being said, there are two factors I'd consider when looking at the 860k:

1). It's probably going to be easier to hit 4.5 ghz with the 860k than it will be to hit 5 ghz with Richland.
2). Assuming a 10% overall advantage for Steamroller, at 4.5 ghz, it should perform just as well as a 5 ghz Richland.

At that point it's a matter of total cost of acquisition. What kind of cooling is it going to take to get a 760k to 5 ghz, vs. an 860k to 4.5 ghz? There are lots of people out there who pushed a 7850k to 4.5 ghz on fairly weak cooling. Pull the iGPU from that and it just gets easier. What does it take to get a 760k to 5 ghz? My guess it that it's taking more voltage to do that, and as a consequence, it's going to produce more heat.

Also, how many of those benchmarks (particularly gaming benchmarks using iGPU) out there featuring Kaveri vs Richland/Trinity have Kaveri results that are gimped due to CPU throttling during iGPU operation? The 860k doesn't exhibit that behavior.

Until we really see the 860k pitted against the 760k with "typical" overclocks, even in a homebrew forum bench of some kind, I think it simply isn't safe to make assumptions like "the 860k is only 10% faster per clock than the 760k".

edited to fix stupid mis-use of parenthesis. Urk.


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## chrisjames61

I thought by now we would see some comparisons being run out there in the wild.


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## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> That being said, there are two factors I'd consider when looking at the 860k:
> 
> 1). It's probably going to be easier to hit 4.5 ghz with the 860k than it will be to hit 5 ghz with Richland.
> 2). Assuming a 10% overall advantage for Steamroller, at 4.5 ghz, it should perform just as well as a 5 ghz Richland.


Yup. You save on the cooler and PSU with Kaveri, even if the end result is effectively identical. Benchmarks show a roughly 10% gain overall from Piledriver to Steamroller, meaning Steamroller can match the old architecture at 90% the frequency. That's why stock vs stock benchmarks showed no gain: 4.1GHz/4.4GHz Richland vs 3.7GHz/4.0GHz Kaveri make the IPS about the same.

I'm not sure how reliably you could hit 5GHz on a 760k or 4.5GHz on an 860k, however. Do we have a database of 760k overclock results?


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## Jaycz

I might pick one up sometime
My cooling/mobo isn't good enough for my 760k to reach its real potential, but i'd prolly be able to get the 860k to the average OC ceiling(If its the same as the 7850k), or just about

I also need to get VRM heatsinks


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## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> *Also, how many of those benchmarks (particularly gaming benchmarks using iGPU) out there featuring Kaveri vs Richland/Trinity have Kaveri results that are gimped due to CPU throttling during iGPU operation? The 860k doesn't exhibit that behavior.
> *
> Until we really see the 860k pitted against the 760k with "typical" overclocks, even in a homebrew forum bench of some kind, I think it simply isn't safe to make assumptions like "the 860k is only 10% faster per clock than the 760k".


Yeah, I think so many of the Kaveri CPU benches were tainted and rendered moot because of the CPU throttling issue that most people weren't even aware of. It's a bug in the way the C6 states work. IIRC the chip would always go to P6 state which was 3.0ghz anytime the iGPU had any sort of load put on it. The Athlon variant would never do this for obvious reasons. Not to mention it's easier to get the 860k to 4.5ghz than it is to get the 760k to 5.0ghz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Yup. You save on the cooler and PSU with Kaveri, even if the end result is effectively identical. Benchmarks show a roughly 10% gain overall from Piledriver to Steamroller, meaning Steamroller can match the old architecture at 90% the frequency. That's why stock vs stock benchmarks showed no gain: 4.1GHz/4.4GHz Richland vs 3.7GHz/4.0GHz Kaveri make the IPS about the same.
> 
> I'm not sure how reliably you could hit 5GHz on a 760k or 4.5GHz on an 860k, however. Do we have a database of 760k overclock results?


People always said that the 760k would hit 5ghz easy just because it was Richland, though most people I saw topped out around 4.6~4.8ghz. Which is still decent, but not exactly 5ghz, lol. Some chips probably did hit 5ghz, but some couldn't hit it no matter what without extreme amounts of voltage being juiced into them.

Regardless, I saw several gaming benches where the Steamroller core provided a much higher boost than just 10% as many people quote. One example was RE5, where it was about 30% faster than Piledriver for some reason. There were a couple other titles with similar boosts, but most were in the ballpark of 5~15%+.


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## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> IIRC the chip would always go to P6 state which was 3.0ghz anytime the iGPU had any sort of load put on it.
> 
> ...
> 
> Regardless, I saw several gaming benches where the Steamroller core provided a much higher boost than just 10% as many people quote. One example was RE5, where it was about 30% faster than Piledriver for some reason. There were a couple other titles with similar boosts, but most were in the ballpark of 5~15%+.










So now we have an underpowered CPU and GPU? Cool! They crammed too much stuff in a 95W TDP. 125W flagship and motherboards to support it would have worked better. Just look at the 95W and 125W FX eight-cores. Throttling means they perform like Zambezi.

How much of that was thanks to just the architecture? Could it have been improvements in the PCIe bus or the IMC, for example?


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## NaroonGTX

I think it is because Kaveri was mobile-optimized. You can see that influence due to the heavy throttling issues, the introduction of the cTDP, and the fact that Kaveri performs best at lower TDP's in general. Anywhere beyond ~3.9ghz and the power consumption increase dramatically. Carrizo seems to continue that ideology of being a mobile-centric part. Maybe they'll fix the bugged C6 states for desktop parts, who knows. Architecturally they did some weird things with SR. L2$ latencies still aren't as good as they should be, and due to some other issues, the independent decoders don't provide a big boost in some scenarios. It's almost a "why did they even bother" type scenario, but it's certainly an improvement over PD.


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## CynicalUnicorn

Not releasing any FX-#500 chips doesn't help either. I've seen that it scales extremely well for lower TDPs, especially given the node (Broadwell, anybody?). I'd rather have Kabini for low-power, but the full-power architecture could work in a tablet with some tweaks and binning. I'm not sure how good Carrizo will be at all. I'm hoping that it's better than "what Bulldozer was supposed to be to begin with!"


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## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> I think it is because Kaveri was mobile-optimized.


Mostly likely so.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Not releasing any FX-#500 chips doesn't help either. I've seen that it scales extremely well for lower TDPs, especially given the node (Broadwell, anybody?). I'd rather have Kabini for low-power, but the full-power architecture could work in a tablet with some tweaks and binning. I'm not sure how good Carrizo will be at all. I'm hoping that it's better than "what Bulldozer was supposed to be to begin with!"


We probably won't see any more 3M or 4M chips from AMD on the desktop. From what I understand, AMD could do a 3M Steamroller on FM2+ if they really wanted to, and that could be a really good product. But, we probably won't see it.

Given the prices on FX CPUs, it may be that AMD is selling the heck out of those things to non-gamers who just need a lot of cores for a cheap home/office server to do stuff that aren't necessarily so concerned with TCO (which, mind you, is decent for FX chips clocked @ 4.2 ghz or lower). A 3M Steamroller would undermine the entire AM3+ platform. If they are still selling chips, maybe they don't want to mess with that little market. Maybe.

edit: FM2+, not AM2+! duh


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## NaroonGTX

That seems likely. They seem intent on trying to clear out as much AM3+ stock as possible, most likely in preparation for the new stuff in 2015/2016.


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## jsc1973

They clearly have a ton of AM3+ stock still available, so it makes sense they wouldn't make a new product that would interfere with unloading it. You might even see another price cut on the FX chips before the end of the year.


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## chrisjames61

Wh
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> They clearly have a ton of AM3+ stock still available, so it makes sense they wouldn't make a new product that would interfere with unloading it. You might even see another price cut on the FX chips before the end of the year.


What "new" product are you thinking of?


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## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> That seems likely. They seem intent on trying to clear out as much AM3+ stock as possible, most likely in preparation for the new stuff in 2015/2016.


What is most interesting is the apparent level of demand for the things. Nothing else can explain the prices unless AMD is really just letting the channel run dry. Many of the "new" FX chips are selling for $10-$20 more than the intended launch MSRP, and some of the chips (8320, 7700k) that were supposed to enjoy price drops have not gone down in price at all, or by as much as they were meant to according to the new MSRP figures.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> They clearly have a ton of AM3+ stock still available, so it makes sense they wouldn't make a new product that would interfere with unloading it. You might even see another price cut on the FX chips before the end of the year.


Another price cut? It would be nice to see the Sept 1st price cut fully realized. But yeah, another price cut on something like the 9590 would be possible since that chip really has tanked in price recently.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Wh
> What "new" product are you thinking of?


I'm thinking he meant a hypothetical 3M or 4M Steamroller chip.


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## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> What "new" product are you thinking of?


Any new chip with more than four cores, either on Steamroller or on Excavator. If something like that shows up, they'll barely be able to give away leftover Visheras.


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## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Any new chip with more than four cores, either on Steamroller or on Excavator. If something like that shows up, they'll barely be able to give away leftover Visheras.


I would be all over one if it existed. I bought a Crosshair Ranger and put a A10-5800K I got off Craigslist for $25 in it. Would love something leaps and bounds better in the cpu socket.


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## Jaycz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Any new chip with more than four cores, either on Steamroller or on Excavator.


If a chip like that came out, i'd grab a Crosshair Ranger and be all over it,







"goodbye 6300, only reason you were decent is price"


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## p4inkill3r

I cannot find any reviews for the 860, does anyone know why?


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## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p4inkill3r*
> 
> I cannot find any reviews for the 860, does anyone know why?


This is the only review I have found this far, it's in chinese tho.

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/1/1039/1039026_all.shtml

And yeah it's very weird we lack of reviews for this processor.


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## jsc1973

It should perform the same as a 7850K at the same clock rate. Presumably, these are just 7850K dies that have defects in the GPU section. And AMD probably isn't sending out samples to reviewers, since they want people to buy the full-blown 7850K that costs twice as much. Look how long it took these to show up after Kaveri as it is.


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## MapRef41N93W

I opted to go for a 760k over the 860k for my secondary mantle build. I figure a 5GHz 760k should beat out a 4.5GHz 860k by a good 3-4%.


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## p4inkill3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It should perform the same as a 7850K at the same clock rate. Presumably, these are just 7850K dies that have defects in the GPU section. And AMD probably isn't sending out samples to reviewers, since they want people to buy the full-blown 7850K that costs twice as much. Look how long it took these to show up after Kaveri as it is.


Indeed, but I'm still at a loss as to why not even a tech blog has reviewed it.

I've been putting off buying one until I saw at least a couple reviews, but it seems that I might as well just go ahead and get one.


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## Justinbaileyman

I would like to see a review for the 860K as well. as far as I understand it they top out at around "4.8Ghz", not 4.5Ghz like the only 2 reviews claim. I am thinking about getting one just to see if those reviewers are just BS'ing everyone. Just like the claim that 7850K tops out at 4.4Ghz which is just total nonsense as I have personally seen them get up around 4.6-4.8GHz. It may just come down to them using crappy mobo's though.


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## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> I would like to see a review for the 860K as well. as far as I understand it they top out at around "4.8Ghz", not 4.5Ghz like the only 2 reviews claim. I am thinking about getting one just to see if those reviewers are just BS'ing everyone. Just like the claim that 7850K tops out at 4.4Ghz which is just total nonsense as I have personally seen them get up around 4.6-4.8GHz. It may just come down to them using crappy mobo's though.


The problem with the clockspeeds that get reported with Kaveri chips is that most of the time, they didn't produce any extra performance above 4.5ghz, indicating that the chip is bugged in some way and was reporting a sort of "ghost overclock", similar to what happened with the multiplier-locked Llano chips from back in the day. As mentioned earlier, there was also the P-state problem which caused the CPU to throttle down to 3.0ghz any time a load was placed on the iGPU. Though these Athlon's won't have that problem since the iGPU is fused off permanently.

I did see a guy bench at 4.7ghz on a 7850k and he *did* see improved performance in some benches, not sure how he achieved it though. He said he could get 4.8ghz but that it wasn't particularly stable and didn't produce extra performance, and I think it crashed at times.

I would love to see testing done on these chips, but as you all have stated, none of the sites have really done anything with them. Strange indeed.


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## chrisjames61

I am thinking that most reviewer know it will perform exactly like an A10-7850K and that is why there is no big rush to review it.


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## jsc1973

I'm sure that there are Kaveri chips out there that can run beyond 4.4 to 4.5 GHz, but it seems like that is the typical ceiling for them. Anything better and you've won the silicon lottery. I would think an 860K, with the GPU section disabled, would do a little better than that, but it's still made on a manufacturing process optimized for a GPU, not a CPU.

For whatever reason, AMD doesn't seem to care if someone reviews it or not. All they'd have to do is send out samples and people would review it. Send me one and I'll review it for free, and I'm sure a lot of others here would, too.

I'm interested in seeing just how available these downmarket Kaveri chips are in the long term. Like I said earlier, it took forever for AMD to put them for sale at all, and they're not marketing their availability or even seem to care about the word getting out. I wonder if the design of Kaveri makes it more difficult to harvest defective cores, as compared to Trinity/Richland where the GPU wasn't as tightly integrated into the APU. You'd think, under normal circumstances, AMD would want the word out about the 860K. The 760K is such a great value for they money that they have no trouble at all selling them (although it must cannibalize any remaining FX-43x0 sales), and this is a 760K with a higher IPC.

I'm hoping they're just unloading a limited stock of bum 7850K chips before giving us Carrizo in a few more months, and I think that very well may be the rationale behind these harvested Kaveris and the new Vishera SKU's; just getting rid of old stock in advance of a more marketable product. But we'll have to see.


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## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I'm sure that there are Kaveri chips out there that can run beyond 4.4 to 4.5 GHz, but it seems like that is the typical ceiling for them. Anything better and you've won the silicon lottery. I would think an 860K, with the GPU section disabled, would do a little better than that, but it's still made on a manufacturing process optimized for a GPU, not a CPU.
> 
> .


An AMD engineer was on a forum saying that an Athlon like a 750K, 760K, 860K cpu will not run any faster or cooler than a full on APU. This is due to the fact that the cpu doesn't have the on die video and needs to communicate through various busses and pci lanes which actually causes more heat. I more than likely did a bad job of explaining it not being an engineer.


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## Justinbaileyman

Well I know AMD did something so overclocking on the FM2+ A88X mobo's are minimal compared to Overclocking on a FM2 A85X. I can easily get to 5.0-5.2Ghz with my 760K on my A85X-Up4 but can hardly get past 4.5Ghz on my A88X-Up4. Dont know if its the new chip sets holding me back or if its early crap bios but I am not liking what I'm seeing from this new generation of FM2+ socket mobo's!! At this point I dont know if it would even pay to get a 860K?? I am still keeping my fingers crossed for a review to pop up so I know if I should up grade or just wait a couple months for Carrizo.


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## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> Well I know AMD did something so overclocking on the FM2+ A88X mobo's are minimal compared to Overclocking on a FM2 A85X. I can easily get to 5.0-5.2Ghz with my 760K on my A85X-Up4 but can hardly get past 4.5Ghz on my A88X-Up4. Dont know if its the new chip sets holding me back or if its early crap bios but I am not liking what I'm seeing from this new generation of FM2+ socket mobo's!! At this point I dont know if it would even pay to get a 860K?? I am still keeping my fingers crossed for a review to pop up so I know if I should up grade or just wait a couple months for Carrizo.


I haven't heard anything about A88X being worse for OC than A85X was. They're basically the same thing, in fact.

If anything, A88X should be better, since it's used on the high-end FM2+ boards. It might be that they've been optimized for Kaveri at the expense of Richland, though. If that's the case, it shouldn't affect your decision to purchase an 860K, since that's a Kaveri core.

I'll probably find out for myself this weekend. I'm going to put this 6800K through its paces on an A88X-PRO and see what it will do. If it can't get past 4.5, that would be a definite red flag, since this is a 6+2 enthusiast class board.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> Well I know AMD did something so overclocking on the FM2+ A88X mobo's are minimal compared to Overclocking on a FM2 A85X. I can easily get to 5.0-5.2Ghz with my 760K on my A85X-Up4 but can hardly get past 4.5Ghz on my A88X-Up4. Dont know if its the new chip sets holding me back or if its early crap bios but I am not liking what I'm seeing from this new generation of FM2+ socket mobo's!! At this point I dont know if it would even pay to get a 860K?? I am still keeping my fingers crossed for a review to pop up so I know if I should up grade or just wait a couple months for Carrizo.


I was able to hit 4.8GHz on my 760k on a UP4 A88x at 1.48v. Could stretch it a bit more but my thermal margins plummet beyond that.


----------



## MrFumbles91

I'm gonna go OC my 6800K some more....

So AMD is taking FM2+ further then? Glad i just got this new FM2+ board then after an accident with my old ASUS f2A85 v-pro (damn i mss that board)


----------



## jsc1973

Yes, there should be a Carrizo chip on the Excavator core for FM2+ at some point in 2015. It's very likely the last roundup for the Bulldozer uarch on the desktop. It looks like the successor to Carrizo will be on a new socket for 2016, and that it won't be a 15h (Bulldozer) design.


----------



## MrFumbles91

although unlikely, how awesome would it be if carrizo offered 260X level graphics? that'd be just great in my book


----------



## Jaycz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrFumbles91*
> 
> although unlikely, how awesome would it be if carrizo offered 260X level graphics? that'd be just great in my book


That'd be awesome
I really hope it supports DDR4 to help with the memor bandwidth problems, is that a guarantee or not?, I don't really follow the future releases


----------



## jsc1973

At some point, if you keep improving the GPU section, you'll run up against the transistor budget for the chip. Adding in stronger graphics raises the transistor count more than beefing up the CPU does. Not to mention that at some point, you'd start cannibalizing your discrete GPU sales.

From what's been said, the chip will support DDR4, but DDR4 platforms won't be available at release. It wouldn't help right now, anyway. DDR4 speeds will have to get significantly faster than they currently are in order to overcome the higher latency of the new memory. By the time that happens, Carrizo will be old news.


----------



## bradenfontaine

so i just picked this chip up not long ago and wouldnt mind trying my hand at overclocking just ever so slightly, problem is, most overclocking guides i come across are ancient. anyone have a good write up on how to properly overclock the 860k?


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> At some point, if you keep improving the GPU section, you'll run up against the transistor budget for the chip. Adding in stronger graphics raises the transistor count more than beefing up the CPU does. Not to mention that at some point, you'd start cannibalizing your discrete GPU sales.
> 
> From what's been said, the chip will support DDR4, but DDR4 platforms won't be available at release. It wouldn't help right now, anyway. DDR4 speeds will have to get significantly faster than they currently are in order to overcome the higher latency of the new memory. By the time that happens, Carrizo will be old news.


Discreet GPU's won't be cannibalized by powerful APU's in the future simply because there won't _be_ many discreet GPU's to cannibalize, outside of very high-end/enthusiast chips. Once they start making APU's on 14/16nm FinFET nodes with more GPU CU's on them with on-package 2nd-gen HBM, the bandwidth issues will be a thing of the past and you'll see APU's that pack the CPU & GPU grunt to handle all mainstream games at 1080p with high/very high/ultra settings no problem. The only people who will be buying discreet GPU's at that point will be people who want to play at super-high resolutions or do multi-monitor setups, and those GPU's will be re-branded workstation cards most likely (like a lot of them already are.)

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. Even guys from Nvidia said discreet GPU's will be dead by 2020.

Carrizo has a DDR3/DDR4 interface, but the DDR4 support will only be for the server platform. There won't be an updated socket for mainstream desktop to accommodate DDR4 usage. Rumors say that supposedly Carrizo will have some sort of on-package memory like HBM, but I highly doubt this. What it *will* have is the color delta compression that we saw introduced with Tonga, which will be where the "memory bandwidth improvements" we saw mentioned earlier come from. This probably indicates that the IP blocks used in Carrizo is the same as Tonga, i.e. 3rd Gen GCN or GCN 1.2. That color delta compression provided a 30~40% effective mem bandwidth boost, so if it can do the same for Carrizo, that alone would make it much more potent than Kaveri was.


----------



## MrFumbles91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bradenfontaine*
> 
> so i just picked this chip up not long ago and wouldnt mind trying my hand at overclocking just ever so slightly, problem is, most overclocking guides i come across are ancient. anyone have a good write up on how to properly overclock the 860k?


Depends on your mobo mostly, but you have two options, one raise the multi slightly and call it good or raise the multi alot and bump voltage step by step til stable.
You can also do bumps on the bus but this is not recommended as it OC's everything and causes more issues


----------



## drmrlordx

Unless I am mistaken, any Piledriver-era overclocking guide should suffice for the 860k.


----------



## RaduZ

I am also runing into some problems I have an A88XM-PLUS mobo and I just can't get that damned voltage to stay in one place... if i set the offset to lets say 0.0650 when I open CPU-Z under load it shows a higher voltage than it should. I just can't understand asus's bios and it's fancy names. If somone has a list of things I should disable I would mutch apriciate it. (i can get to 4.5 easy on my 7850k i just think the voltage is wrong)


----------



## MrFumbles91

H
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> I am also runing into some problems I have an A88XM-PLUS mobo and I just can't get that damned voltage to stay in one place... if i set the offset to lets say 0.0650 when I open CPU-Z under load it shows a higher voltage than it should. I just can't understand asus's bios and it's fancy names. If somone has a list of things I should disable I would mutch apriciate it. (i can get to 4.5 easy on my 7850k i just think the voltage is wrong)


Have you tried setting voltage manually rather than using the offset?


----------



## RaduZ

If asus would let me do that I would, I just have the offset option. Anyway I think i cracked it, now it stays constant at 1.368 when idle and when in load it sometimes goes to 1.37(6 i think) duno why it does that dough...


----------



## papasteack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> If asus would let me do that I would, I just have the offset option. Anyway I think i cracked it, now it stays constant at 1.368 when idle and when in load it sometimes goes to 1.37(6 i think) duno why it does that dough...


Just look at some pwm chip datasheet on the net (Texas instrument/On semi conductors/Fairchild...), and you'll see that regulation can vary with heat. And moreover, inductors used for pwm are heating too, and so their caracteristic change a bit with heat. And they can get really hot too !

On my X4-860k (a10-7850k without gpu), with a asrock extreme 6+ this is a big issue, voltage is reduced with temperature. Take a look at HWinfo to see VRM temperatures. With my config, i'm actually "VRM heat" limited. At 4,4ghz i get 83°C at idle, and 92°C after 10 minutes OCCT. At 4,5Ghz, or same at 4,0Ghz but with very high voltage, computer restart after hitting 97°C on VRM... HWinfo telling me that around 130 watt are produced (for cpu only in my case). With just some turns on the heatsink screws to get fixed tigher on VRM, i reduced temperatures of around 4-5°C ! Now, i'm working on it for fun to add half a old cpu heatsink (half a scythe big shuriken, keeping two of the four heatpipe).

_Sorry for my aproximative english..._


----------



## drmrlordx

RaduZ, what LLC setting are you using right now? That can affect voltage at load as well.


----------



## RaduZ

I set the LLC for the CPU and the NB at regular, the curent cabability at 100% and the Power Phase Control at Optimized. You think i should set the LLC higher?

@papasteack I dont think the VRM temps are at fault, cause at this core clock I have the voltage set prty low, altough i can't prove it i dont have a fancy IR probe, I will probibly use my finger and check...


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Yes, there should be a Carrizo chip on the Excavator core for FM2+ at some point in 2015. It's very likely the last roundup for the Bulldozer uarch on the desktop. It looks like the successor to Carrizo will be on a new socket for 2016, and that it won't be a 15h (Bulldozer) design.


What do you think the chances are that AMD puts a 6 or 8 core processor on FM2+ or is that more likely to be something that will be after excavator.


----------



## RaduZ

No way they will sacrifice the gpu space for more cpu cores. And i don't think they will design a cpu without a iGPU on the FM socket, maybe with the next architecture.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> What do you think the chances are that AMD puts a 6 or 8 core processor on FM2+ or is that more likely to be something that will be after excavator.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> No way they will sacrifice the gpu space for more cpu cores. And i don't think they will design a cpu without a iGPU on the FM socket, maybe with the next architecture.


What RaduZ said. The APU's that we currently have aren't suitable for high-end/performance desktop, and AMD is aware of that. The same silicon that we see in the desktop parts are what goes into the mobile devices which incorporate the APU's (besides the Kabini/Temash and Beema/Mullins parts). They are produced on the same production line. AMD wouldn't make a separate production line just to add more modules/cores which would result in a bigger, hotter die with even lower clocks than they have now. Mind you, I don't have any idea what the performance characteristics for the process node that Carrizo will be on (an alternate 28nm node, it won't be the "28nm SHP BULK" that Kaveri was on) are, but I can surmise that since the mobile platform slide was already leaked, the max we will see will be 4 cores i.e. 2 modules.

FM2+ will not see any chips with more than 4 cores max, either. That will come with the new architectures (Zen and maybe K12, if Microsoft allows ARM support on Windows 10 or something). I think those SoC APU's will be much more potent than what we have now, both in terms of CPU grunt and GPU grunt. Don't be shocked if you see on-package HBM, either. With Zen, you'll probably see the same thing you saw with Zambezi and Vishera as far as core counts go: up to 8 cores max, with (depending on how the architecture is with the floor plan) 4-7 core variants due to die harvesting. Probably won't see any odd-number parts, though.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> What RaduZ said. The APU's that we currently have aren't suitable for high-end/performance desktop, and AMD is aware of that. The same silicon that we see in the desktop parts are what goes into the mobile devices which incorporate the APU's (besides the Kabini/Temash and Beema/Mullins parts). They are produced on the same production line. AMD wouldn't make a separate production line just to add more modules/cores which would result in a bigger, hotter die with even lower clocks than they have now. Mind you, I don't have any idea what the performance characteristics for the process node that Carrizo will be on (an alternate 28nm node, it won't be the "28nm SHP BULK" that Kaveri was on) are, but I can surmise that since the mobile platform slide was already leaked, the max we will see will be 4 cores i.e. 2 modules.
> 
> FM2+ will not see any chips with more than 4 cores max, either. That will come with the new architectures (Zen and maybe K12, if Microsoft allows ARM support on Windows 10 or something). I think those SoC APU's will be much more potent than what we have now, both in terms of CPU grunt and GPU grunt. Don't be shocked if you see on-package HBM, either. With Zen, you'll probably see the same thing you saw with Zambezi and Vishera as far as core counts go: up to 8 cores max, with (depending on how the architecture is with the floor plan) 4-7 core variants due to die harvesting. Probably won't see any odd-number parts, though.


Kinda what I figured, with the way FM2+ is designed just seems like there is no room at all for anything other then what they have. Carrizo scares me a little bit, rumors I have heard have been extremely disappointing, especially when I heard that it was going to be limited to 16 pci-e lanes. I would hope that with K12 that they have learned from this bulldozer disaster and really revolutionize the APU design some.


----------



## Dromihetes

I want one but it s still not available in my area for the proper price.
I will compare it to my 5600K (+ R7 265) based machine and see how it goes on the CPU side.
I have the feeling it may be quite ok.
Will see how it performs on BF 3 64 people servers.


----------



## RaduZ

So guys I need some feedback, curently I'm OCing my 7850k (igpu disabled) and I decided to take the lid off to see how hot the VRM gets.
I went to get my temperature measuring tool and then I remembered i don't have such a thing







so i used my finger. Poking around I noticed that the chokes get kind of hot, i counted 3 mississippis and i had to get my finger out of there, the caps seem to be a bit cooler and the heatsink covering the mosfets is hot but i can keep my finger on it. What do you guys think?

This is all the info i could find about the VRM:

ASUS A88XM-PLUS

4+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> So guys I need some feedback, curently I'm OCing my 7850k (igpu disabled) and I decided to take the lid off to see how hot the VRM gets.
> I went to get my temperature measuring tool and then I remembered i don't have such a thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so i used my finger. Poking around I noticed that the chokes get kind of hot, i counted 3 mississippis and i had to get my finger out of there, the caps seem to be a bit cooler and the heatsink covering the mosfets is hot but i can keep my finger on it. What do you guys think?
> 
> This is all the info i could find about the VRM:
> 
> ASUS A88XM-PLUS
> 
> 4+2 phase
> IR3565
> Digital
> APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk


Without knowing an exact temperature, you can't judge if the VRM's are overheating. But judging by the fact that you didn't get 2nd degree burns when putting your finger on them, id say you're fine. On my 8320 setup with 4+1 phase even with a VRM heatsink I was still hitting 70c on the mosfets. If you really wanna push that 7850k harder and your having trouble with 4+2, the MSI A88XM-Gaming im using is 6+2 (might be 6+3) with a full VRM cooler with heatpipes.

Look for a cheap little IR thermometer online, i have a craftsman mini that does up to 500 degrees F.


----------



## kzone75

I ordered one yesterday. Hopefully I'll get it by the end of the week.


----------



## Dromihetes

Got one ,the box says 3,4Ghz base clocks and Turbo 3,9Ghz.I haven t installed it yet.Internet specs says different ,maybe TDP related.


----------



## Spawne32

you got an 860k that says 3.4ghz on the box?


----------



## Jaycz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Got one ,the box says 3,4Ghz base clocks and Turbo 3,9Ghz.I haven t installed it yet.Internet specs says different ,maybe TDP related.


iirc those are Athlon x4 750k stock speeds, you sure it's an 860k?


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Got one ,the box says 3,4Ghz base clocks and Turbo 3,9Ghz.I haven t installed it yet.Internet specs says different ,maybe TDP related.


Just found out theres a note on amd website about this, that they were stickered wrong. Also my 860k is in, and im at 4.8ghz, just trying to get it voltage stable now.


----------



## Dromihetes

Finally installed it in a new system ,in the BIOS the speed is 3,7Ghz base and 3,8/3,9/4,0Ghz for turbo.

The new toy consists in this CPU ,a MSI A88X-G41 PC Mate , 8 Gigs of Crucial Elite 1866Mhz RAM ,one Sapphire R7 265 ,2 WD 1T HDD-s ,a Corsair 650M PSU and 2 modded sound cards Asus Xonar D1 and Creative SB 670 X-Fi Music.

The board is a cheap FM2+ MSI A88X-G41 PC Mate that unfortunately has no CPU voltage settings whatsoever ,in spite of the manual saying it should









In the days to come i will post some pictures with the box while i play around with the config (i am in need to compare it to the FX 6300 based rig gaming wise).

First impression is that the W7x64 desktop is a little snapier and that BF3 is smoother than with the 5600K CPU side at stock speeds.
In 3DMark Demo (the one u find on Steam) at default clocks with the 5600K (GPU disabled) at 1600Mhz RAM i had around ~5600 points while with the default 860K with 1600Mhz RAM i had ~6130 points.I don t have to much time for the moment to run benchmarks.

Overclocking will be limited on this board until i sell some boards and CPU-s that i have around and get something better.


----------



## Spawne32

Dromi what are you showing for default NB frequency? Im getting 1800mhz on auto.


----------



## Dromihetes

Yes the NB was 1800Mhz on Auto ,like the 5600K.
I am posting from a different rig at the moment.I will be able to post more info tomorrow.
I wont let it at 1800Mhz







i hope the board will allow this with no BSOD-s.
With the 5600K this MSI allowed some overclocking


----------



## Spawne32

I posted a new thread with some comparisons against the 8320 @ 4ghz, very impressed so far with the results. Single threaded performance is much much better. Even if I get stuck at 4.6ghz, its still worlds faster with all the things I use it for.


----------



## Dromihetes

Yep i ll look at the thread often for more info and compare to what i will achieve myself.

My next steps would be to look around for a proper overclocking FM2+ board







,the MSI A88X-G41 PC Mate is simply crippled by MSI marketing decision ( no CPU voltage settings) so people to get the more expensive boards.No Nikos in the CPU VRM ,but no voltage settings except RAM so ...


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Yep i ll look at the thread often for more info and compare to what i will achieve myself.
> 
> My next steps would be to look around for a proper overclocking FM2+ board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,the MSI A88X-G41 PC Mate is simply crippled by MSI marketing decision ( no CPU voltage settings) so people to get the more expensive boards.No Nikos in the CPU VRM ,but no voltage settings except RAM so ...


The A88XM-Gaming was under 100 dollars for me, great board with 6+2 phase, the A88-G45 atx version from MSI I believe is around 115 right now.


----------



## Dromihetes

When i got the PC Mate looked more at the number of PCI slots ,so i can put my sound cards ,i wouldn t have imagined it is CPU voltage settings free.








It had the VRM heatsink and just kept it in the box for a time ,MSI fooled me again







.
The older FM2 MSI A75 board that i have (that was cheaper and uses Nikos mosfet) has voltage controls ,but no FM2+ CPU-s support.


----------



## RaduZ

Here you go: (stolen from The Stilt)

Info for some of the VRMs on A88X motherboards:

ASRock

ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock FM2A88XM Extreme4+

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon CM-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock Fatal1ty A88X Killer

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+

4+2 phase (CPU phases doubled, IR3598)
IRF 3565A
Digital
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
APEK PMPAK AP4034GMT (44.3A, 8mOhm), AP92U03GMT (90A, 4mOhm)

ASUS

ASUS A88XM-A

3+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88XM-E

3+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
FPCAP 5K 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88XM-PLUS

4+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88X-PLUS

4+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88X-PRO <<== The Stilt approved! thumb.gif

6+2 phase
IR3567A
Digital
FPCAP 5K 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 10900/4100µF effective) Bulk
Trio SuperAlloy Inductors

GIGABYTE

Gigabyte F2A88XM-DS2

3+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-HD3

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88XM-HD3

3+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-D3H

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
OnSemi NTMFS4C06N (69A, 6mOhm), NVTFS4C10N (47A, 7.4mOhm)

Gigabyte F2A88XM-DH3

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 <<== The Stilt approved! thumb.gif

6+2 phase
IRF 3657A
Digital
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
IR3550M PowIRStage 60A

Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI <<== The Stilt approved! thumb.gif

4+2 phase
IRF 3657B
Digital
UCC or APAQ 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
IR3550M PowIRStage 60A

Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
Vishay SiRA12DP PowerPak (25A, 4.4mOhm), Vishay SiR428DP (30A, 6.1mOhm) <<== Weak mad.gif

MSI

MSI A88XM Gaming

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk

MSI A88X-G41

4+2 phase
ISL6x77x
Analog
UCC 820µF - 6560/1640µF Bulk

MSI A88X-G43

4+2 phase
IR3567A
Digital
UCC 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 7544/2830µF effective) Bulk

MSI A88X-G45 Gaming

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk

MSI A88XI AC

3+2 phase
ISL62773
Analog
UCC(?] xxxµF - Unknown amount of Bulk


----------



## Dromihetes

The Asus may be my future choice indeed, the BIOS control is really good if it resembles the Sabertooth.The Gigabyte BIOS support for AMD boards is simply killing me.


----------



## RaduZ

I have an Asus A88XM-PLUS and I hate the bios







) never tryed the gigabite one dough... The thing is that with the A88XM-PLUS I can only set the voltage in bios in offset mode, if you want to do some serious overclocking i don't recomend this one, also APAQ caps are Taiwanese, duno if they are on par with the Japanese ones.


----------



## Dromihetes

Manufacturers don t care about FM2+ overclocking boards to much so no doubt there are limitations and they tend to build as cheap as they can and ask as more as they can.
My PC Mate board could have been a nice cheap contender if voltage settings would have been available.
I ll see what i can get as it is with the old TX2 cooler that i have around.


----------



## Spawne32

Raduz, the A88X gaming boards are 6+2 phase. MSI stated this when they displayed them at CES.


----------



## RaduZ

Well by looking at the back of the A88X and A88XM from MSI I can only see 6 phases 4 and 2 so I dont rly belive they are.

Edit: To be fair I'm basing my decision on the number of chokes. Usualy It's one per phase.
ReEdit: Also on the back you can se the points where the mosfets are saulderd on, also 4.



Here I made this incrediably complex tehnical drawing







Keep in mind I may be wrong dough.


----------



## drmrlordx

RaduZ, don't forget the Asus Crossblade Ranger. It's probably the best FM2+ board out there for overclocking.


----------



## jsc1973

The Crossblade Ranger is the best FM2+ board for overclocking an A10 or Athlon. For about $30 less, the A88X-PRO has almost the same feature set and the 6+2 VRM's, but without all of the ROG features. Having owned the A88X-PRO for several months, my comment on it is that there's no FM2+ CPU available that's worthy of the motherboard's quality, and the same would of course apply to the Crossblade Ranger. But if 860K's are hitting 4.8 or if we get Carrizo early next year, that might change.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The Crossblade Ranger is the best FM2+ board for overclocking an A10 or Athlon. For about $30 less, the A88X-PRO has almost the same feature set and the 6+2 VRM's, but without all of the ROG features. Having owned the A88X-PRO for several months, my comment on it is that there's no FM2+ CPU available that's worthy of the motherboard's quality, and the same would of course apply to the Crossblade Ranger. But if 860K's are hitting 4.8 or if we get Carrizo early next year, that might change.


Very excited to hear about carrizo and see some test results when that time comes, I was astonished at how well the 860k performed against the 8320 @ 4ghz. Everyone shot it down so hard before I bought it but im glad I listened to you about it. The MSI A88XM-Gaming board is leaps and bounds better then the 760G chipset gigabyte board I was stuck with.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Very excited to hear about carrizo and see some test results when that time comes, I was astonished at how well the 860k performed against the 8320 @ 4ghz. Everyone shot it down so hard before I bought it but im glad I listened to you about it. The MSI A88XM-Gaming board is leaps and bounds better then the 760G chipset gigabyte board I was stuck with.


Well, if I helped you make a decision you are happy you made, then thank you for letting me know, and you're welcome. I always try to give the best advice I can without being biased toward either side.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The Crossblade Ranger is the best FM2+ board for overclocking an A10 or Athlon. For about $30 less, the A88X-PRO has almost the same feature set and the 6+2 VRM's, but without all of the ROG features. Having owned the A88X-PRO for several months, my comment on it is that there's no FM2+ CPU available that's worthy of the motherboard's quality, and the same would of course apply to the Crossblade Ranger. But if 860K's are hitting 4.8 or if we get Carrizo early next year, that might change.


I have to agree on the Crossblade Ranger. Every FM2 cpu I have and my A10-7850K all clock a couple hundred MHz higher in it than my Gigabyte and ASrock boards. And with much better stability. Both those boards are 8+2 with nice heatsinks. In fact I have found this with AM3+ boards too. I am comparing boards in the same price range. Correction. Crossblade Ranger is 6+2.


----------



## Dromihetes

My 860K heats up a little ,i am totally limited ,i need a new cooler and mobo.
At 4000 Mhz with ,turbo off ofcourse, it goes 65 Celsius in my case ,the mobo reading ,might be wrong.
I cant go higher than 4200 as it is most probable.

So if you buy this chip for overclocking prepare yourselves with proper cooling and mobos.

Excellent even at stock ,feels like a FX 6300 in BF 3.
Smooth gaming with it no doubt.
Great for the price.


----------



## HeadGear

Just picked this chip up to finish a budget build I have been parting out for awhile now. I have a ton of experience OCing AMD chips, but this is my first mobo with uefi, so its pretty strange to me, heh.

Its my sig rig, hoping to get some time in trying to OC it in the next few days, have always been more excited by OC'ed budget options than flagship CPUs and Graphics. Most of my friends love me for it, as they don't know enough to build cost conscious gamer rigs, and have fun gaming while spending less than they expect. Already have a couple orders for 860k budget builds from gamer buddies rocking old machines that choke on new games.

Anyway, will report back how the OCing goes... anyone out there with this board, or the ATX version with any hints or tips? Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3h.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Just picked this chip up to finish a budget build I have been parting out for awhile now. I have a ton of experience OCing AMD chips, but this is my first mobo with uefi, so its pretty strange to me, heh.
> 
> Its my sig rig, hoping to get some time in trying to OC it in the next few days, have always been more excited by OC'ed budget options than flagship CPUs and Graphics. Most of my friends love me for it, as they don't know enough to build cost conscious gamer rigs, and have fun gaming while spending less than they expect. Already have a couple orders for 860k budget builds from gamer buddies rocking old machines that choke on new games.
> 
> Anyway, will report back how the OCing goes... anyone out there with this board, or the ATX version with any hints or tips? Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3h.


Looking forward to seeing your results, Id be weary about pushing it very hard with no VRM cooling on that board however. My 860k is idling with 1.6v and 1.533v under load just to do 4.6ghz. Dunno if that has to do with the measly 4+2 power design or if the chip just leaks voltage like a pig.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Looking forward to seeing your results, Id be weary about pushing it very hard with no VRM cooling on that board however. My 860k is idling with 1.6v and 1.533v under load just to do 4.6ghz. Dunno if that has to do with the measly 4+2 power design or if the chip just leaks voltage like a pig.


I have direct fresh airflow over the vrms, which have thermal tape attached copper heatsinks on each so I hope that will reduce overheating, I'll get back on that after my next day off and a full day of screwing around, heh.


----------



## Spawne32

If anyone is lookin for better air coolers, I have like 5 or 6 brand new in box air coolers sitting in my closet in my garage that were from the old AM2 days, dunno how compatible they would be with the FM2+ mounts or if anything could big rigged up but the coolers are gigantic. Be willing to practically give them away.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> I have direct fresh airflow over the vrms, which have thermal tape attached copper heatsinks on each so I hope that will reduce overheating, I'll get back on that after my next day off and a full day of screwing around, heh.


That's enough to do the trick on that board. I had a F2A88XM-D3H for a while, and the VRM's ran kind of hot with no cooling on them. I bought a set of cheap aluminum heatsinks off eBay for $4 and stuck them on the VRM's and it solved the problem (to the extent there was one; it worked fine without them, but I wanted to prolong the life of those VRM's). The board ended up in a build for a friend and it is working great.

4+2 is plenty of voltage regulation on an APU board that's not going to be overclocked. If you're getting an A8/10 or an Athlon and want to max it out, look at one of the high-end FM2+ boards.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That's enough to do the trick on that board. I had a F2A88XM-D3H for a while, and the VRM's ran kind of hot with no cooling on them. I bought a set of cheap aluminum heatsinks off eBay for $4 and stuck them on the VRM's and it solved the problem (to the extent there was one; it worked fine without them, but I wanted to prolong the life of those VRM's). The board ended up in a build for a friend and it is working great.
> 
> 4+2 is plenty of voltage regulation on an APU board that's not going to be overclocked. If you're getting an A8/10 or an Athlon and want to max it out, look at one of the high-end FM2+ boards.


What's your opinion on running this chip at high voltage if the VRM's are cruising at a cool 35-40c and the cpu @ 35c idle 62c load? Never ran a chip this high in voltage before, just wondering about how its gonna effect the lifespan.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That's enough to do the trick on that board. I had a F2A88XM-D3H for a while, and the VRM's ran kind of hot with no cooling on them. I bought a set of cheap aluminum heatsinks off eBay for $4 and stuck them on the VRM's and it solved the problem (to the extent there was one; it worked fine without them, but I wanted to prolong the life of those VRM's). The board ended up in a build for a friend and it is working great.
> 
> 4+2 is plenty of voltage regulation on an APU board that's not going to be overclocked. If you're getting an A8/10 or an Athlon and want to max it out, look at one of the high-end FM2+ boards.


Oh, I intend of overclocking, but considering the lower cost of the system, and the ease of replacement should I blow something up, I'm pretty ok with pushing it dollar for dollar, which I find much more interesting, personally.

That being said, I don't want to wreck it, but will settle on pretty much any daily OC that is stable and doesn't put too much at risk. On the way there, though, I will push it and see where it goes. I live in a pretty cold climate, and I have done a lot of extreme air and CLC OCing over the years with very cold ambient temps. I've enjoyed outdoor OCing greatly, even in -40c, as it can be a lot of fun and cheaper, though less extreme, than DICE or LN2 OCing. I ran a 965c3 to 4.5ghz on a cheap 3+1 phase gigabyte board this way, enough to get a bunch of benches in, though only for that short period of time.

In another home, I even built a shelf outside my liviingroom window that I put my tower on, and fed all the cables through a mostly sealed gap in the window opening. I've been away from OCing like that for several years, but am looking forward to re-embracing it. I just hope this platform has some of that potential. If not, I'm sure I will still enjoy my budget oriented approach to a gaming HTPC. So far at stock speeds, I am enjoying it as it is, in what little time I have had so far to explore its capabilities.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> What's your opinion on running this chip at high voltage if the VRM's are cruising at a cool 35-40c and the cpu @ 35c idle 62c load? Never ran a chip this high in voltage before, just wondering about how its gonna effect the lifespan.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Oh, I intend of overclocking, but considering the lower cost of the system, and the ease of replacement should I blow something up, I'm pretty ok with pushing it dollar for dollar, which I find much more interesting, personally.
> 
> That being said, I don't want to wreck it, but will settle on pretty much any daily OC that is stable and doesn't put too much at risk. On the way there, though, I will push it and see where it goes.


If I implied that motherboard wouldn't be reliable under any OC conditions, I didn't mean to. I would be entirely trusting of a Giga F2A88XM-D3H on an overclocked APU or Athlon, as long as the VRM's were heatsinked and the overclock wasn't anything crazy. If you're going for the 5 GHz overclock club, get a Crossblade Ranger, but if you're looking for a few hundred more MHz on an 860K, it's fine as long as you put sinks on it and have decent airflow.

There are some motherboards that ship like that, with unsinked VRM's, that can be used to better purpose just with a pack of VRM heatsinks off eBay. Giga has a few AM3/AM3+ boards that are the same way. As long as you're not dealing with Nikos DPAK mosfets, which are dreadful whether you heatsink them or not, you can almost always do something to improve the capability of a budget board.

I actually did put a mild OC on that board for a while, running a 6400K at 4.24 GHz on stock voltage with no problem.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If I implied that motherboard wouldn't be reliable under any OC conditions, I didn't mean to. I would be entirely trusting of a Giga F2A88XM-D3H on an overclocked APU or Athlon, as long as the VRM's were heatsinked and the overclock wasn't anything crazy. If you're going for the 5 GHz overclock club, get a Crossblade Ranger, but if you're looking for a few hundred more MHz on an 860K, it's fine as long as you put sinks on it and have decent airflow.
> 
> There are some motherboards that ship like that, with unsinked VRM's, that can be used to better purpose just with a pack of VRM heatsinks off eBay. Giga has a few AM3/AM3+ boards that are the same way. As long as you're not dealing with Nikos DPAK mosfets, which are dreadful whether you heatsink them or not, you can almost always do something to improve the capability of a budget board.
> 
> I actually did put a mild OC on that board for a while, running a 6400K at 4.24 GHz on stock voltage with no problem.


Well my A88XM board has probably the biggest heatsink you can get out of all of the mATX boards, cooling seems to be more then adequate, and ive verified it with a IR thermometer as well.

http://hostthenpost.org


----------



## jsc1973

You should be fine with that. It's a 4+2 board built to a higher standard than most MSI motherboards from AMD. I've never used one, but it appears to have a solid reliability record. Which is a good thing, because we need more mATX boards for AMD platforms that aren't steaming piles. If you have a good experience with the board, make sure you let people know, because there's certainly a demand for good mATX solutions on AMD, even with the OCN crowd. The AM3+ boards for mATX ranged from abjectly mediocre to wonders of vomitude.

Different design on that board than on my A88X-PRO. ASUS ran the heatpipe between the main heatsink and the southbridge sink. Looks like MSI ran it between the two VRM sinks.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You should be fine with that. *It's a 4+2 board* built to a higher standard than most MSI motherboards from AMD. I've never used one, but it appears to have a solid reliability record. Which is a good thing, because we need more mATX boards for AMD platforms that aren't steaming piles. If you have a good experience with the board, make sure you let people know, because there's certainly a demand for good mATX solutions on AMD, even with the OCN crowd. The AM3+ boards for mATX ranged from abjectly mediocre to wonders of vomitude.
> 
> Different design on that board than on my A88X-PRO. ASUS ran the heatpipe between the main heatsink and the southbridge sink. Looks like MSI ran it between the two VRM sinks.


Nah, that's the a88xm-e45... the a88xm-gaming has 6+2... that's what he has.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Nah, that's the a88xm-e45... the a88xm-gaming has 6+2... that's what he has.


Not enough chokes on that board to be a 6+2. Has to be a 4+2. Stilt gave its specs as:

MSI A88XM Gaming
4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk

http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database/1300_100


----------



## Giofot

One question.Do you increase CPU/NB Frequency when OCing or leave at default?


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Not enough chokes on that board to be a 6+2. Has to be a 4+2. Stilt gave its specs as:
> 
> MSI A88XM Gaming
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database/1300_100


Yeh that's half the problem I have with this board, it was advertised as 6+2 at CES, and its just not. I mean overall its probably the best mATX board you can get for overclocking on FM2+ but compared to its ATX counterparts, once again AMD is still suffering in the mATX department.


----------



## CosmonautLaika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Giofot*
> 
> One question.Do you increase CPU/NB Frequency when OCing or leave at default?


If you have RAM faster than 1600mhz, most people up the NB frequency to 2200mhz (at least what I've seen in the FM2+ overclocking thread). I'm not sure it makes much of a difference, though.


----------



## Giofot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CosmonautLaika*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Giofot*
> 
> One question.Do you increase CPU/NB Frequency when OCing or leave at default?
> 
> 
> 
> If you have RAM faster than 1600mhz, most people up the NB frequency to 2200mhz (at least what I've seen in the FM2+ overclocking thread). I'm not sure it makes much of a difference, though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

My RAM are 16000mhz, my NB frequency is by default clocked at 18000mhz. Does this means that I have to underclock it?


----------



## Dromihetes

Ok ,i ve done some research on mine.
The board i am using is limited as there are no voltage controls for CPU/CPU-NB.
I have measured the voltages directly to the board as in the picture.

CPU-Z shows voltages lower with 0,03V
HW Info shows Vin5 as NB voltage and Vcore field picks the maximum voltage as the real one.
T1 field in HW Info seems to show the real temperature as compared to the sensor called finger







.
Hits 62 temperatures here.In the CPU0 field show a little more.

The board is ok at 4200Mhz ,i will do more testing but i am limited by the cooler no doubt.Nice to see the board adjusting itself automatically.The higher the stress more voltage it pushes.The voltages in the picture are taken at Intel Burn test load.When 3DMark11BE Demo is run the voltages go a little higher ,at 4,2Ghz it did 1,44V on the CPU VRM outputs.Phase 1 seems to always be a little higher than the other phases.

The board is not bad having in mind the VRM temperatures are similar to the CPU heat-sink.To bad there are no CPU voltage manual settings in spite of the nice blue heatsink.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> I have direct fresh airflow over the vrms, which have thermal tape attached copper heatsinks on each so I hope that will reduce overheating, I'll get back on that after my next day off and a full day of screwing around, heh.


Hey, you mind taking a pic of your VRM heatsink setup? I'd like to see how and where you placed them, if that's okay.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hey, you mind taking a pic of your VRM heatsink setup? I'd like to see how and where you placed them, if that's okay.


sure, will do in a few days when I get home.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok ,i ve done some research on mine.
> The board i am using is limited as there are no voltage controls for CPU/CPU-NB.
> I have measured the voltages directly to the board as in the picture.
> 
> CPU-Z shows voltages lower with 0,03V
> HW Info shows Vin5 as NB voltage and Vcore field picks the maximum voltage as the real one.
> T1 field in HW Info seems to show the real temperature as compared to the sensor called finger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Hits 62 temperatures here.In the CPU0 field show a little more.
> 
> The board is ok at 4200Mhz ,i will do more testing but i am limited by the cooler no doubt.Nice to see the board adjusting itself automatically.The higher the stress more voltage it pushes.The voltages in the picture are taken at Intel Burn test load.When 3DMark11BE Demo is run the voltages go a little higher ,at 4,2Ghz it did 1,44V on the CPU VRM outputs.Phase 1 seems to always be a little higher than the other phases.
> 
> The board is not bad having in mind the VRM temperatures are similar to the CPU heat-sink.To bad there are no CPU voltage manual settings in spite of the nice blue heatsink.


I wonder if it would benefit me to measure the voltage directly from the back of the board and see if it matches up to what CPUZ is reading.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Not enough chokes on that board to be a 6+2. Has to be a 4+2. Stilt gave its specs as:
> 
> MSI A88XM Gaming
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database/1300_100


Wow that's too bad... It's such a pretty board.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Giofot*
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> My RAM are 16000mhz, my NB frequency is by default clocked at 18000mhz. Does this means that I have to underclock it?


No. High NB speeds are a good thing. You will get a little extra performance if you push your NB to 2 ghz.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> sure, will do in a few days when I get home.


Appreciate it.


----------



## Dromihetes

From my testing it seems that the FX patches under Windows 7 x 64 bring performance increases with the 860K in 3DMark11 BE Demo.It s not much but it is .
Maybe the power management is a little more aggressive with Kaveri than with previous series.

On the other hand 3Dmark reports some error related to RTC clocks ,the scores are not validated ,even though with the same board , BIOS-es and 5600K there were no issues of such.
Reinstalled windows and same thing ,i have no idea whats the problem.


----------



## Giofot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> No. High NB speeds are a good thing. You will get a little extra performance if you push your NB to 2 ghz.


Thank you.

I wrote in a different thread but i will leave it here also

I manage to OC my cpu to 4.5 Ghz stable and have a strange phenomenon in both cpu-z and MSI cc.

The multiplier vary between the 35x and 45x values (only one or another) when i test it in full load with prime95.I have "AMD cool and quiet" at disable.Also at idle state it stays constantly at 45x.

My cpu temp shouldn't be a problem, i have 32c idle and 65-66c at full load.Mobo temp is stable both in idle and full mode 27-28c.

This happen only in 4.4Ghz and 4.5Ghz, in 4.3 it stays at 43x.


----------



## drmrlordx

What's the max temp for the 860k before it begins to throttle itself? If the max temp is 62-65C, that might be a cause of your trouble.


----------



## Giofot

I haven't found specific for the 860k, but for all AMD its sould be from what i have read 70c.


----------



## mikeo01

Download AMD's own OverDrive; if that can't read the temperatures then god help us.

That should tell you how far it is from the maximum core temperature.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeo01*
> 
> Download AMD's own OverDrive; if that can't read the temperatures then god help us.
> 
> That should tell you how far it is from the maximum core temperature.


Everyone who overclocks an AM3+ cpu or FM2+ should be using AMD Overdrive. Thermal Margin is the bomb.


----------



## RaduZ

Well on my board for example, it does not work







It just crashes my pc when I try to enter it. I just love AMD


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> Well on my board for example, it does not work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just crashes my pc when I try to enter it. I just love AMD


You don't need Overdrive. The thermal margin in overdrive, at least for Visheras, is 70C-core temp. So, the max thermal margin, corresponds to 70C core temp. I don't know what the margin for APUs is, but the principle is the same.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Wow that's too bad... It's such a pretty board.


Typical MSI on AMD... Great looks, crap VRM. MSI treats AMDs like B series motherboards.


----------



## Giofot

This is from my 43x multiplier test. As you can see the cpu temp is 61c (MSI cc also validated) mobo temp 27c and my thermal margin is 16c which adds up to 77c.Like i said i have read that 70c is max temp for AMD CPUs that for its not normal to have the problem with the 44x-45x multiplier at 65c.I just cant understand it.


----------



## gerily

I see in Giofot Screenshot its showing Package temps of 103C. Any idea where this is reading from and its it safe?

Getting similar Package temp during multi hour gaming with Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-HD3 + 860k cpu + MSI R9 280 gpu. Stock speeds at the moment normal Tmpin 0 & 2 temps.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerily*
> 
> I see in Giofot Screenshot its showing Package temps of 103C. Any idea where this is reading from and its it safe?
> 
> Getting similar Package temp during multi hour gaming with Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-HD3 + 860k cpu + MSI R9 280 gpu. Stock speeds at the moment normal Tmpin 0 & 2 temps.


I don't think the package temps are accurate at all, i show 105c under load on water. 105c would bake a CPU in under an hour, and I ran it for 16 hours like that. lol


----------



## Jayjr1105

I have a 5400K and a cheap A85 board and I have yet to find a temp monitor that shows accurate temps.


----------



## Dromihetes

Use Hardware info and take a look at CPU 0 temp and T1 readings if you have MSI.
I think this ones are close.
T1 for my A88X-G41 is most probable what i read in BIOS.Max temperature is maybe close to 70 Celsius which should make you unable to touch the heatsink.If you can touch it then it s ok temperature wise








65-67 Celsius should be ok as a max.

Throttling happens due to cTDP setting most probable ,i have no idea how to disable this thing in BIOS.
My BIOS allows 1-95W setting for this item ,is there a different one for other manufacturers ?


----------



## Giofot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Throttling happens due to cTDP setting most probable ,i have no idea how to disable this thing in BIOS.
> My BIOS allows 1-95W setting for this item ,is there a different one for other manufacturers ?


I have the same problem with my mobo, i will try setting it to max 95w when i got home and test for result.


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> At some point, if you keep improving the GPU section, you'll run up against the transistor budget for the chip. Adding in stronger graphics raises the transistor count more than beefing up the CPU does. Not to mention that at some point, you'd start cannibalizing your discrete GPU sales.
> 
> From what's been said, the chip will support DDR4, but DDR4 platforms won't be available at release. It wouldn't help right now, anyway. DDR4 speeds will have to get significantly faster than they currently are in order to overcome the higher latency of the new memory. By the time that happens, Carrizo will be old news.


I have thought on this many times and still ponder on where its all going in the end - could we see in the future that cards could come obsolete?


----------



## Justinbaileyman

Hey guys just wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade from a 760K to a 860K?? Is there an IPC improvement over the 760K?? Hoping for a 15-25% performance increase clock for clock or is that wishful thinking??


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> Hey guys just wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade from a 760K to a 860K?? Is there an IPC improvement over the 760K?? Hoping for a 15-25% performance increase clock for clock or is that wishful thinking??


There is a performance improvement, but I would say its between 5-10% where it counts.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ladcrooks*
> 
> I have thought on this many times and still ponder on where its all going in the end - could we see in the future that cards could come obsolete?


Probably not. We'll get to a point where nearly everyone is using onboard graphics, and we're already a long way in that direction already. But it will always be possible to create a much stronger graphics processor by putting it on a separate card, and since there's always going to be people with heavy-duty graphics requirements, there will always be gaming and professional graphics cards, or some other way of having a discrete GPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> Hey guys just wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade from a 760K to a 860K?? Is there an IPC improvement over the 760K?? Hoping for a 15-25% performance increase clock for clock or is that wishful thinking??


The difference between Piledriver and Steamroller is only about 10 percent, and the Richland Athlon tends to overclock better than the Kaveri one does, due to it being made on SOI wafers as opposed to bulk silicon. You'd probably still come out slightly ahead, but not by much. You'll gain 10 percent in IPC and lose about five percent in clock speeds. If you've already got a 760K and an FM2+ board, wait for Carrizo and then upgrade. If you're buying new, choose the 860K unless the 760K is a lot cheaper.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Probably not. We'll get to a point where nearly everyone is using onboard graphics, and we're already a long way in that direction already. But it will always be possible to create a much stronger graphics processor by putting it on a separate card, and since there's always going to be people with heavy-duty graphics requirements, there will always be gaming and professional graphics cards, or some other way of having a discrete GPU.
> The difference between Piledriver and Steamroller is only about 10 percent, and the Richland Athlon tends to overclock better than the Kaveri one does, due to it being made on SOI wafers as opposed to bulk silicon. You'd probably still come out slightly ahead, but not by much. You'll gain 10 percent in IPC and lose about five percent in clock speeds. If you've already got a 760K and an FM2+ board, wait for Carrizo and then upgrade. If you're buying new, choose the 860K unless the 760K is a lot cheaper.


Bout a 10 dollar difference between the 760K and 860K, and I feel as though the 860K needs to be pushed harder with voltage to get those higher clocks, but from what my tests showed its faster then the 760K in single threaded performance with about 200mhz less speed, not by much though. Buying as an OEM chip further reduces the price. http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AD860KX

79.99 vs 89.99


----------



## DarkDelirium

Hi mates ! Just got my 860k and CrossBlade Ranger, managed to get it to 4.8 with 1.55v.

Here's a validation link. http://valid.x86.fr/qlagsu

I've had a 7850k that I've sold due to getting better discrete GPU and I've been quite happy with the new 860k. It does take a bit more volts than my old 7850k to reach ~ 4.5gz, around 1.52v, from a default of 1.4, but I like it nonetheless.

If you have any tests / benchmarks you want me to run to help with your decision, lemme know and I'll try to help.

Thanks !


----------



## mikeo01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkDelirium*
> 
> 
> 
> Hi mates ! Just got my 860k and CrossBlade Ranger, managed to get it to 4.8 with 1.55v.
> 
> Here's a validation link. http://valid.x86.fr/qlagsu
> 
> I've had a 7850k that I've sold due to getting better discrete GPU and I've been quite happy with the new 860k. It does take a bit more volts than my old 7850k to reach ~ 4.5gz, around 1.52v, from a default of 1.4, but I like it nonetheless.
> 
> If you have any tests / benchmarks you want me to run to help with your decision, lemme know and I'll try to help.
> 
> Thanks !


Impressive OC there







+rep


----------



## Spawne32

great results dark, its ashame my stupid MSI board has no way to regulate the LLC, otherwise id probably be able to do 4.8 as well.


----------



## drmrlordx

Another 4.8 ghz 860k, nice! The voltage is a bit high for everyday but whatever.

Score another victory for the Crossblade Ranger.

Requests:

Any chance you could run SuperPi 32M at 4.5 ghz and 4.8 ghz to show us the difference in performance?

Also, how high can you get your NB?


----------



## jsc1973

Glad to see this. When Kaveri first came out, you couldn't get hardly any extra performance out of the 28nm bulk process node. Now we're seeing some chips that can give Richland a run for its money overclocked. Hopefully we'll see Carrizo chips hitting 4.8, too. If Excavator is another 10 percent IPC bump, Carrizo at 4.8 would be like having an FX-4300 at close to 6 GHz. The Ranger and the A88X-PRO will finally have a CPU worthy of dropping in them.


----------



## DarkDelirium

Heya Drmrlordx









I managed to get my NB Freq to 2069 mhz @ 1.35v, above that I'm afraid my VRM-s will melt









Here's a screen











Will try to do SuperPi 32M and come back with results. I think Stock @ 4ghz vs 4.5 vs 4.8 would be valuable. Although I might go with a smaller PI number, since the difference remains the same.

Thanks


----------



## drmrlordx

Thanks DarkDelirium. 32m is kinda slow, so it's up to you which setting you use on SuperPi. 32m is very interesting in that it stresses the memory subsystem more than any other setting (that is, it reduces the impact of cache vs, say, 1m).

2069 is pretty good! I haven't really seen anything higher than that without phase. There was one guy on here who had his NB at 2400 mhz or so. Phase change and all that.


----------



## Dromihetes

On my crap mobo i am running BF 3 and BF 4 with 4200Mhz for core and 2000Mhz for NB with no voltage adjustment (as it can t be done as i have no such settings).
I have not measured the voltage the NB receives at 2000Mhz but at 1800Mhz Automatic voltage it was 1,104V by multimeter.
Several hours of BF 3 and BF 4 showed no stability issues yet at this clocks.

In this way i have a better game experience along the R7 265,

Really a great CPU and having in mind the identical price to the Richland 760K and the plus of the PCI-E 3.0 i recommend it for a budget PC.

Excavator will be maybe 10% over Kaveri.
No matter how good this AMD chips are on paper when they go full production limitations show up.If you want a cheap PC now that runs games , the 860K is a good choice and overclocks enough to make a difference in the minimum FPS you get.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hey, you mind taking a pic of your VRM heatsink setup? I'd like to see how and where you placed them, if that's okay.


Sorry for the late reply, work trip got extended by a few days. These are from a 10 pack of Enzotech MOS-C10 copper heatsink that I got from newegg for $15 cdn free shipping.


----------



## HeadGear

I should add, I have my top and back fans blowing into the case, as the N200 mATX case I am using only allows frontal exhaust layout from my Antec 1250 kuhler clc.

Also, having a hard time OCing this rig, as I cannot get a real CPU temp reading while in Windows. I can see my CLC fluid temps, through Antec Grid, which is hitting 45c while gaming, and my exhaust air is quite hot. Anyone out there find a temp monitoring solution that is accurate for the GA-F2A88XM-D3H? I really don't like OCing in the dark







. Even Easytune doesn't support this MB, as much as I have alway disliked Easytune, any port in a storm at this point.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Hey guys, joined just to join this discussion.

For someone who's not planning on OCing any time soon (ironic, i know, but this forum is one of the few ones talking about this chip), is it worth getting?

I'm planning to get a Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H and a 280x alongside it.

Also, should i get a cooler immediately or only when i go for overclocking (i plan to use it at 4 GHz, as in the boost speed).


----------



## Justinbaileyman

It will work fine with a stock cooler at 4.0Ghz and will play nicely with a 280X. You cant get better for the price specially a unlocked Cpu.I say go for it I know I am just for the hell of it to see what the difference will be like versus the 760K.Plus doing so will give me a backup for my Fm2+ system.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Justinbaileyman*
> 
> It will work fine with a stock cooler at 4.0Ghz and will play nicely with a 280X. You cant get better for the price specially a unlocked Cpu.I say go for it I know I am just for the hell of it to see what the difference will be like versus the 760K.Plus doing so will give me a backup for my Fm2+ system.


Thanks for the reassurance. I'll probably get it.

Now to actually wait a month or two to save up the cash. Paychecks be late. ._.


----------



## CosmonautLaika

At stock clocks the Athlon x4 860k would be better, but if you do explore overlocking consider the Pentium G3258. Once overclocked it's hard to beat in terms of price/performance. MSI has some boards (Z97 Guard Pro, Z97 G43, Z97 PC Mate) that overclock it to 4.3 ghz or so automatically. http://us.msi.com/news/1790.html

Sometimes goes on sale for $100 for the processor+motherboard combo online. That is the standard price at Micro Center right now (Pentium G3258 + MSI Z97 PC Mate combo) if you happen to be near one.

It tends to beat or tie an overclocked 750K in most every game. The 750K is faster in multi-threaded productivity stuff, though. But it seems gaming is more about single or dual core performance. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-overclocking-performance,3849.html


----------



## drmrlordx

Depends on the game. The G3258 is definitely cheaper, but if money were no object I'd rather have the 860k.

Actually, if money were no object I'd rather have a 5960X but that is beside the point.


----------



## CosmonautLaika

Yeah, I'm happy with my 760K -- just thought I'd mention it since he said he was on a budget. Those combo deals are crazy cheap. Pretty much giving the chip away for free.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Depends on the game. The G3258 is definitely cheaper, but if money were no object I'd rather have the 860k.
> 
> Actually, if money were no object I'd rather have a 5960X but that is beside the point.


actually, the G3258 is actually cheaper than a x4 860k here.

X4 860k + Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H = 1033 kn
G3258 + Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H = 971 kn
(i made sure the MoBos are the same price)
(1$ = 5.5 kn on average)

Now you're making me doubt myself again, after i've already decided on the x4 860k









EDIT:
If i bump up the intel MoBo to a H97 i have:
G3258 + Gigabyte GA-H97M-D3H = 1151 kn

EDIT#2: I'm blind as a bat and thought the quoted post stated that the x4 was cheaper and he'd rather have the G3258 if money were no object.
That makes this post quite moot and embarrassing and ass-backwards ._.


----------



## jsc1973

If gaming is the most important thing, the Pentium is a better choice if money's not an issue. An 860K will produce a better all-around system, but the G3258 is a beast of a budget gaming CPU.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If gaming is the most important thing, the Pentium is a better choice if money's not an issue. An 860K will produce a better all-around system, but the G3258 is a beast of a budget gaming CPU.


Well gaming is hardly the only thing I do.

I'll also be doing a slew of other stuff, and multitasking is kind of a big deal since i have 2 monitors.

To stay somewhat ontopic: so the Pentium is better for strictly gaming, but the X4 if better for day-to-day tasks and multitasking?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> To stay somewhat ontopic: so the Pentium is better for strictly gaming, but the X4 if better for day-to-day tasks and multitasking?


Yes. That's why I use one (a 6800K actually, but basically the same as an Athlon X4).


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Yes. That's why I use one (a 6800K actually, but basically the same as an Athlon X4).


well thanks for silencing my doubts. cheers.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Might pick one of these CPUs since i have a A88X UP4 sitting. Will pair it with HD 7970 for a all around build.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Well gaming is hardly the only thing I do.
> 
> I'll also be doing a slew of other stuff, and multitasking is kind of a big deal since i have 2 monitors.
> 
> To stay somewhat ontopic: so the Pentium is better for strictly gaming, but the X4 if better for day-to-day tasks and multitasking?


Any processor from the last 10 years can handle "day to day" just fine. What kind of multi-tasking? The only thing I can think of that would be better, even slightly, would be encoding but im not sure why you'd do that on a cheapo processor if you're serious about it.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Any processor from the last 10 years can handle "day to day" just fine. What kind of multi-tasking? The only thing I can think of that would be better, even slightly, would be encoding but im not sure why you'd do that on a cheapo processor if you're serious about it.


~10 chrome tabs
watching a video while playing a game
watching youtube while playing
watching videos with SVP
programming
some light video encoding and photoshop work when i can be arsed.

that sort of thing.

by day-to-day use i don't mean "browse internet and that's about it", i'm talking about what you would do on a pc as an intermediate user every day, not just exclusively gaming.


----------



## Dromihetes

I would advice people that try to transform this thread into a 860K versus Pentium thread to stop.It s not a versus thread.

The 860K can be used for gaming ,it s cheap and similar in price to 750K and 760K.
If you buy a cheap mobo without good overclocking abilities you can also overclock it a little with no issues.2000Mhz for NB and 4200Mhz for CPU is easily achievable.
It runs BF 3 and BF 4 at 1080p with 64 players just fine if the video card is R7 265 or better.
Adds support for PCI-E 3.0.

Great for budget builds.

For "browse internet and that's about it" you can get some AM1 5150 APU quad and it s even cheaper and potent enough for old 1024 X 768 gaming (BF BC2 runs at max detail on this resolution on the IGP).


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> I would advice people that try to transform this thread into a 860K versus Pentium thread to stop.It s not a versus thread.
> 
> The 860K can be used for gaming ,it s cheap and similar in price to 750K and 760K.
> If you buy a cheap mobo without good overclocking abilities you can also overclock it a little with no issues.2000Mhz for NB and 4200Mhz for CPU is easily achievable.
> It runs BF 3 and BF 4 at 1080p with 64 players just fine if the video card is R7 265 or better.
> Adds support for PCI-E 3.0.
> 
> Great for budget builds.
> 
> For "browse internet and that's about it" you can get some AM1 5150 APU quad and it s even cheaper and potent enough for old 1024 X 768 gaming (BF BC2 runs at max detail on this resolution on the IGP).


well i tried to steer it back, but that's the nature of vBulletin, ain't it?

An A88X mobo (GA-F2A88XM-D3H specifically) should be able to OC it if i ever decide to dabble in those arcane arts, no?


----------



## RaduZ

It's ok for dabbling a bit. The caps are ok, it only has 4+2 power phases but for FM2+ you don't have that many mobos with 6+2 or higher. The draw back is that it has no VRM heatsink.

Edit: 4200-4300Mhz should be just fine with that mobo, you rly don't have to increase the voltage for those freq. My 7850K (the apu version of the 860k) Does 4.2 with just a little bump on the voltage to get it off auto.
Don't forget to give the VRM a good fingering after you do the OC to see how hot it gets







(or use a IR thermometer if you have one)


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> It's ok for dabbling a bit. The caps are ok, it only has 4+2 power phases but for FM2+ you don't have that many mobos with 6+2 or higher. The draw back is that it has no VRM heatsink.
> 
> Edit: 4200-4300Mhz should be just fine with that mobo, you rly don't have to increase the voltage for those freq. My 7850K (the apu version of the 860k) Does 4.2 with just a little bump on the voltage to get it off auto.
> Don't forget to give the VRM a good fingering after you do the OC to see how hot it gets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (or use a IR thermometer if you have one)


Not completely sure what VRM is (EDIT: well i know what it is, but no idea where it is and what the heatsink looks like and is it covered by the CPU cooler arrays you can buy), but when it comes to heat, i'll prolly buy an aftermarket cooler if i ever decide to OC.

Since it's an unlocked chip, it should easily overclock, afaik.


----------



## RaduZ

The vrm is the part to the left of the socket it has many things that regulate the voltage that goes into stuff on the board







) I'm not going to go into details, before trying to OC or buy a cooler I recomend to read a bit about things like the VRM, and read some overclocking tips on this forum, or on google, it helps to know what you are doing.


----------



## jsc1973

You can buy a set of cheap MOSFET heatsinks with thermal tape already on them for less than $5 on eBay. Do that and the GA-F2A88XM-D3H is a trouble-free board that will be good for mild overclocking. This set is what I used, bearing in mind that you'd need to cut a couple down to size with a Dremel for them to fit on the board: http://www.ebay.com/itm/8pcs-Lot-Small-Aluminium-Heatsink-For-Computer-Xbox360-PS-VGA-Chips-Cooling-/221576571622?pt=US_Memory_Chipset_Cooling&hash=item3396fe2ae6

If you're looking for more than 4.5 GHz, you need an A88X-PRO or a Crossblade Ranger and their 6+2 VRM configuration. No adding extra sinks is necessary on those boards.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> The vrm is the part to the left of the socket it has many things that regulate the voltage that goes into stuff on the board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I'm not going to go into details, before trying to OC or buy a cooler I recomend to read a bit about things like the VRM, and read some overclocking tips on this forum, or on google, it helps to know what you are doing.


Oh of course, i just asked as a sidenote
I don't want to completely lay waste to the thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You can buy a set of cheap MOSFET heatsinks with thermal tape already on them for less than $5 on eBay. Do that and the GA-F2A88XM-D3H is a trouble-free board that will be good for mild overclocking. This set is what I used, bearing in mind that you'd need to cut a couple down to size with a Dremel for them to fit on the board: http://www.ebay.com/itm/8pcs-Lot-Small-Aluminium-Heatsink-For-Computer-Xbox360-PS-VGA-Chips-Cooling-/221576571622?pt=US_Memory_Chipset_Cooling&hash=item3396fe2ae6
> 
> If you're looking for more than 4.5 GHz, you need an A88X-PRO or a Crossblade Ranger and their 6+2 VRM configuration. No adding extra sinks is necessary on those boards.


I don't have easy access to a Dremel, but i'll manage somehow. There's a dedicated electronic goods store (think Radioshack - as far as i can tell, never been to a Radioshack) which should have some handy.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## HeadGear

Not being able to monitor my temperature in real time is killing me, ugh. I'm stable at 4.5ghz 1.4v load, and my coolant is hitting 45c, so I know my cooler is doing it's job, but my only reading for temp that I can pull is from bios. Which is lame, because outside of Windows, my antec 1250 kuhler runs at minimum rpms, which at 4.5 ghz, gives me an idle temp of 60c in bios.

*frazzled*

Edit: I am using a gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H, if anyone knows of an existing temp monitoring solution that runs from inside Windows, please please help me out!


----------



## drmrlordx

IR Thermometer? Thermal diodes? AMD has been bad about temp sensors for years on some chips.


----------



## MrFumbles91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Not being able to monitor my temperature in real time is killing me, ugh. I'm stable at 4.5ghz 1.4v load, and my coolant is hitting 45c, so I know my cooler is doing it's job, but my only reading for temp that I can pull is from bios. Which is lame, because outside of Windows, my antec 1250 kuhler runs at minimum rpms, which at 4.5 ghz, gives me an idle temp of 60c in bios.
> 
> *frazzled*
> 
> Edit: I am using a gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H, if anyone knows of an existing temp monitoring solution that runs from inside Windows, please please help me out!


Most motherboard do the job well of monitoring CPU temp of course it's not the die temp but I guess it's close enough. I've had the best experience with OpenHardwareMonitor


----------



## Goldn3agle

I picked up an 860K a few days ago, I got sick of the abysmal overclocking of the 760K I had, and I'm still playing with the multis and voltages.
The chip is quite different to my 7850K however, although they are the same die, because the 860K is pulling the same current and showing the same temps at 1.4V as the 760K does at 1.5V (and is actually pulling roughly 10 amps more than the 760K).

I'm currently testing 4.4V at 1.4V and an hour and ten minutes in the CPU is still stable. (Prime95)
A further quirk with this chip it seems that IntelBurnTest and AMD Overdrive don't stress the CPU properly and result in failures even at stock, although this could be due to my motherboard or particular chip.


----------



## chrisjames61

I thought the Richland chips were great overclockers while Kaveri was the poor overclocker?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Typically they are, the 760ks for the Asian market are another story however, I've gone through 4 of them (long story), so I decided to get a UK one, and it was cheaper to buy an 860k than a 760k.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Typically they are, the 760ks for the Asian market are another story however, I've gone through 4 of them (long story), so I decided to get a UK one, and it was cheaper to buy an 860k than a 760k.


I am tempted to get an 860K off eBay. There are new oem versions for $72. I have a build with a 750K at 4.6 GHz and wonder If I could overclock the 860K enough to to show any kind of improvement?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Clock for clock the 860k is stronger, most people advise to save your money when it comes to the 760k & 860k but where's the fun in that?








Plus it's nice to be back on PCI-E Gen3 (even though I won't see any improvement).


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> most people advise to save your money when it comes to the 760k & 860k


If only i had that luxury :/


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Clock for clock the 860k is stronger, most people advise to save your money when it comes to the 760k & 860k but where's the fun in that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus it's nice to be back on PCI-E Gen3 (even though I won't see any improvement).


I have so many rigs that I go months without turning one on. I actually forget what I own at times. But like many here it is a hobby for me.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I'm also planning on delidding tomorrow because there's no way the 860K should run at 64C Core0 at 1.45V, it makes no sense.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I'm also planning on delidding tomorrow because there's no way the 860K should run at 64C Core0 at 1.45V, it makes no sense.


They have TIM instead of solder.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I know, unfortunately I've not had the pleasure of using a CPU with a soldered IHS, but the temps are still very high for the voltage.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I'm also planning on delidding tomorrow because there's no way the 860K should run at 64C Core0 at 1.45V, it makes no sense.


Let me know how it works out and post up some pics, might consider this with mine.


----------



## Goldn3agle

The TIM used on these things is really poor. :/


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> The TIM used on these things is really poor. :/


Cool!

How did you go about delidding your CPU?? What method did you use? Razor blade?

What kind of TIM did you place the original stuff with? What kind of temperature drop did you see?


----------



## Goldn3agle

Vice method, the razor method is very ineffective on the As and the Athlons because of the VRM positions.
You'll more than likely destroy a few VRMs with the razor method.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Vice method, the razor method is very ineffective on the As and the Athlons because of the VRM positions.
> You'll more than likely destroy a few VRMs with the razor method.


Did the temperatures change quite a bit?


----------



## Goldn3agle

I haven't had chance to properly test it yet although the temps did seem lower at a glance.


----------



## drmrlordx

Vice method? How did you pull that off without knocking out resistors or bending pins? Well done in any case!

edit: could you measure the thickness of the epoxy seal? That would help in precision cutting of the epoxy for those of us interested in the razor method.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I've always found the vice method easier, just have the CPU tilted slightly upward at the end you're bashing.








I tried the razor method on my old 760ks, and without going into details I ended back at the vice method.









The epoxy is 6mm tick, consistently, and there's a line of VRMs are less them 1mm away from the epoxy below the gold triangle.


----------



## drmrlordx

Hmm, something to think about then. I have a 7700k in testing, and it's awfully hard to monitor temps under Linux (I've really got to experiment with some more monitoring software), the data I do have indicates insane temperatures at 4.5 ghz+. Unacceptable! It really needs a delid. Too bad I don't have a vice handy.


----------



## matty50racer

I would be too worried about bending pins with a vise, but it works great on my Intel cpu's. I delided an A10-5800k and a8-6600k using a very thin razor taken out of one of my wife's razors. I was just careful not to go too deep, and the thin razor required little pressure to get under the heat spreader so cutting off a resistor was unlikely. I got awesome temps using an AIO liquid cooler with custom screws to mount it directly on the die.


----------



## dlee7283

I got the Pentium because it basically was a holdover before broadwell i5. The 860k appears just to be and updated 965 which has been out for years.

The 7700k sucks from my experience. Bought it for a friend and he gets random crashes on 2d games. The catalyt drivers suck for apus and even fm2 plus boards won't run right in Windows 7 only 8

Really a gamer should look into a 8320 since it is like a 100 bucks and much more powerful


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> Really a gamer should look into a 8320 since it is like a 100 bucks and much more powerful


True, but all the AM3+ motherboards are either ancient, hideous, or very low end.
I like a snazzy looking system as well as a good performing one.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> I would be too worried about bending pins with a vise, but it works great on my Intel cpu's. I delided an A10-5800k and a8-6600k using a very thin razor taken out of one of my wife's razors. I was just careful not to go too deep, and the thin razor required little pressure to get under the heat spreader so cutting off a resistor was unlikely. I got awesome temps using an AIO liquid cooler with custom screws to mount it directly on the die.


I've bent one or two pins in my day








It was when I delidded my 5800K, the wood block slipped off and bent some of the first row pins, I managed to bend them back though.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> True, but all the AM3+ motherboards are either ancient, hideous, or very low end.
> I like a snazzy looking system as well as a good performing one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've bent one or two pins in my day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was when I delidded my 5800K, the wood block slipped off and bent some of the first row pins, I managed to bend them back though.


Have you had a chance to see if delidding your CPU has helped with temps?

Mine is pretty toasty, and I was just wondering if it would be worth it.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So how much can 860K OC under water?


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So how much can 860K OC under water?


easy 1ghz depending on how much voltage your chip wants


----------



## HeadGear

Well, I'm having some severe stability issues now during gaming, even at bone stock settings. Tried Voltage settings, LLC, removing one set of ram, then the other, Same thing, no matter what I try, about 10 minutes into gaming (Shadow of Mordor, legit from Steam, is my current game), freeze crash requiring a reset. Not getting BSODs, just straight up freezing. My PSU is 4 years old, and I wanted to replace it with a modular unit anyhow, so I think I am going to start there. and see how it goes. Ugh, my return to gaming PCs has not been glorious, lol, but I knew the PSU might cause me grief, was just putting off getting a modular unit. Until after Christmas. I guess I know what I am getting myself this year, hah.


----------



## damric

I have an 860K on the way. I might delid both that and my 760K and have a bench-off.


----------



## nakano2k1

Urgh... I can't get the northbridge over 2000mhz no matter how much voltage I put into it. I was up to 1.32V on the NB before I gave up. 1800 - 2000mhz takes only .02v to make it rock solid.


----------



## matty50racer

I've found it impossible to overclock the northbridge past 2000 as well. Apparently it is common for Kaveri to hit a wall there. I've also read in other threads that certain motherboards do better than others but don't know it for a fact.


----------



## drmrlordx

I have (almost) gotten the NB stable at 2100 mhz using a 7700k. If I want to run my cores and iGPU balls out, I have to drop NB to ~2000 mhz or I get instability. Once my stuff gets here, I'll do some surgery and see if that doesn't improve the situation somewhat, but I'm not betting on it.

There was one guy on here with his NB @ 2400 mhz under single-stage phase.


----------



## nakano2k1

I run everything using offset voltage. Best of both worlds as I can keep my power saving and still have my OC. I do disable turbo though as well as advanced power management (APM). My CPU has never been over 53c under a 212+ Evo with AS5 and two fans.

I really love the CPU, I just wish I could eek out a bit more NB performance. Seeing how i'm running 2133mhz Mem.


----------



## MrFumbles91

So from the current focus of this thread (the northbridge and OC'ing it) I'm understanding the NB is CPU bound? I was under the impression it was a limitation of the board


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrFumbles91*
> 
> So from the current focus of this thread (the northbridge and OC'ing it) I'm understanding the NB is CPU bound? I was under the impression it was a limitation of the board


The northbridge is built onto the CPU die. The memory controller and stuff, used to be built into the MB, but it hasn't been that way for quite some time. By building into the CPU, they were able to bring general latency way down.

OCing the NB on AMD cpus usually yield very good performance numbers.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> I got the Pentium because it basically was a holdover before broadwell i5. The 860k appears just to be and updated 965 which has been out for years.
> 
> The 7700k sucks from my experience. Bought it for a friend and he gets random crashes on 2d games. The catalyt drivers suck for apus and even fm2 plus boards won't run right in Windows 7 only 8
> 
> Really a gamer should look into a 8320 since it is like a 100 bucks and much more powerful


What motherboard are you using? I've built several FM2+ systems and I don't use anything but Windows 7. Never had a problem or complaint about any of them, either on the onboard GPU or a dedicated one, or with Hybrid Crossfire (I ran 6800K APU+HD 6670 for a while.)

I would recommend an 8320 and 970A-UD3P at current prices myself, but unless you're playing something that can use more than four cores, you'll do just as well if not better with an 860K. It's basically an FX-4300 with a 10 percent higher IPC.

A serious gamer should probably be running a Sandy i5 or better in any case. The APU's are fine for a casual or budget gamer who is happy running at 720p.


----------



## kzone75

After roughly two months of waiting, I will most likely get my 860K next week.







New stuff is fun stuff.


----------



## matty50racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It's basically an FX-4300 with a 10 percent higher IPC.


In all the gaming benchmarks and tests I have been able to do the FX-4300 is about 8% faster than trinity/richland clock for clock and only about 2% slower than Kaveri on average. The L3 makes a bigger difference than people give credit when gaming. And then you have to consider the fx clocks about as well as richland easily hitting ~4.8ghz with a decent cooler.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> What motherboard are you using? I've built several FM2+ systems and I don't use anything but Windows 7. Never had a problem or complaint about any of them, either on the onboard GPU or a dedicated one, or with Hybrid Crossfire (I ran 6800K APU+HD 6670 for a while.)


Gigabyte FM2+ F2A78M-HD2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128694

Also had problems booting usb dvd-rom off the normal usb ports.

Seriously their quality control on this board was severly lacking. I normally don't have problems with Gigabyte stuff ever.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> After roughly two months of waiting, I will most likely get my 860K next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New stuff is fun stuff.


Just put mine together today with the MSI A88X Gaming.

Will bench soon.

Kids got my Athlon 760K and Extreme 6+ which they were pretty stoked about.


----------



## damric

My preliminary testing is NOT good. Much worse latency than my 760K, and it doesn't seem to OC worth a crap. It's still early in my testing, but if I can't at least match the performance of my 760K then this pig is going in my kid's rig.


----------



## Dromihetes

What do you mean by "much worse latency" ?! The CPU is great even at 4,1/4,2 Ghz with NB at 2000Mhz and Ram at 1866Mhz.
But i ve observed more fluidity under Windows7 than under 8.1.
Under 8.0/8.1 my FX 6300 also felt less fluid in games ,some kind of stuttering.
Maybe it s the OS that makes you see it bad.
New they are similar in price and the 860K performs better at stock ,like 2 modules from a FX 6300 even though without the L3.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> What do you mean by "much worse latency" ?! The CPU is great even at 4,1/4,2 Ghz with NB at 2000Mhz and Ram at 1866Mhz.
> But i ve observed more fluidity under Windows7 than under 8.1.
> Under 8.0/8.1 my FX 6300 also felt less fluid in games ,some kind of stuttering.
> Maybe it s the OS that makes you see it bad.
> New they are similar in price and the 860K performs better at stock ,like 2 modules from a FX 6300 even though without the L3.


I have to agree with this sentiment. Other than some teething issues when I first set it up (embarrassing newb mistakes lol) I have been super happy with this chip and platform (W7 860K, f2a88xm-d3h, 2x4GB 1866 GSkill Ripjaws, R9-270 2GB Video Card) when it comes to what I use it for: 1080p gaming from my couch with a controller, Netflix, Torrents, Productivity, occasional audio/video editing.

For most things, I use a default profile running everything at stock, but I use my OC profile for gaming and video editting.

Currently OC Profile: 4.2ghz/1.36v with 2000mhz NB , and its running spectacularly. I don't experience any "latency" that I can identify, everything I tell it to do is done well. I can get it stable at 4.7ghz, 1.44v, but it runs way too hot for comfort considering my overkill Antec Kuhler 1250 (stupid TIM, might have to finally try this whole delidding thing).


----------



## damric




----------



## nakano2k1

Nrothbridge clock on the 760k is 2600mhz and the 860k is at 1800mhz. What did you expect? Obviously there's going to be some bottlenecking with DDR3 2400mhz memory.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> Nrothbridge clock on the 760k is 2600mhz and the 860k is at 1800mhz. What did you expect? Obviously there's going to be some bottlenecking with DDR3 2400mhz memory.


Problem is the 860K can't seem to OC much at all on the core and especially the NB.

Like I said, I'm going to continue testing, but if I can't match my 760K performance with 24/7 OC then the 860K is going in my kids' rig.

I'm going to see if I can get my RAM going at lower frequency but very tight timings and see if that opens up the NB latency bottleneck.


----------



## nakano2k1

What is the max you can get on the NB? What you may want to do is OC the FSB until you max out the NB. That will net you the maximum bandwidth. You could also lower the memory speed and tighten the timings?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> What is the max you can get on the NB? What you may want to do is OC the FSB until you max out the NB. That will net you the maximum bandwidth. You could also lower the memory speed and tighten the timings?


It's looking like about 2100MHz (might get a few more MHz with base clock) is maximum before I simply cannot POST, no matter the voltage.

As you can see, the NB showed scaling even with just a 300MHz adjustment:



I was able to run DDR3-1866 with some tight timings like 7-8-8-24, but it it didn't help at all in AIDA (worse speed and same latency). Going to try 2133CL8 and 2400CL9. BRB.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> It's looking like about 2100MHz (might get a few more MHz with base clock) is maximum before I simply cannot POST, no matter the voltage.
> 
> As you can see, the NB showed scaling even with just a 300MHz adjustment:
> 
> I was able to run DDR3-1866 with some tight timings like 7-8-8-24, but it it didn't help at all in AIDA (worse speed and same latency). Going to try 2133CL8 and 2400CL9. BRB.


The problem with OCing memory is that if you're not sure that it's 100% stable it will thrown an error and have to use another cycle. You really need to be sure that the memory is 100% stable before trying to draw performance numbers.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> The problem with OCing memory is that if you're not sure that it's 100% stable it will thrown an error and have to use another cycle. You really need to be sure that the memory is 100% stable before trying to draw performance numbers.


I can stabilize 2400CL9 with this same RAM kit on my 760K, but yeah I know what you are saying. This is just really rough testing without long stability tests (yet).

Anyways, looks a lttle better with 2400CL9 (yeah this RAM is badass).



Going to try 2133CL8 BRB.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I can stabilize 2400CL9 with this same RAM kit on my 760K, but yeah I know what you are saying. This is just really rough testing without long stability tests (yet).
> 
> Anyways, looks a lttle better with 2400CL9 (yeah this RAM is badass).
> 
> 
> 
> Going to try 2133CL8 BRB.


For me 860K is $80, 760K is $95. I will be running DDR3-1600. 760K still better?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> For me 860K is $80, 760K is $95. I will be running DDR3-1600. 760K still better?


Honestly I haven't tested it enough yet to form an expert opinion...yet.

I think 2133CL8 might be the memory sweetspot for this CPU:



(versus 2400CL9 for 760K):



Now to see what I can do with a combined CPU OC.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> For me 860K is $80, 760K is $95. I will be running DDR3-1600. 760K still better?


A couple comparisons. Looks like the 860K is faster at stock vs stock but the 760K catches up quickly due to its massive headroom.









I'm hitting a wall around 4.2GHz/2GHz NB on the 860K where I was TDP limited on the 760K.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Only 4.2GHz with 860K? I might have to change platform. Was think at least 4.6GHz OC.


----------



## NaroonGTX

He must've gotten a dud if that's all he could get out of it. Most 860k's I've seen have topped out at around 4.5~4.7 GHz.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> He must've gotten a dud if that's all he could get out of it. Most 860k's I've seen have topped out at around 4.5~4.7 GHz.


It's quite possible.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Only 4.2GHz with 860K? I might have to change platform. Was think at least 4.6GHz OC.


4.2ghz is my happy medium between heat and performance. I'm seeing a very noticeable gaming improvement at 4.2 compared to the stock 3.7, and it's not getting hot enough to concern me. I am able to run it as high as 4.7 and play games and such, also with another noticeable bump in framerates and fluidity, but the heat output causes my Kuhler 1250 to auto ramp up to very audible levels even at idle on silent mode. And in games, it outright howls as the fluid temps hit 50c.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> 4.2ghz is my happy medium between heat and performance. I'm seeing a very noticeable gaming improvement at 4.2 compared to the stock 3.7, and it's not getting hot enough to concern me. I am able to run it as high as 4.7 and play games and such, also with another noticeable bump in framerates and fluidity, but the heat output causes my Kuhler 1250 to auto ramp up to very audible levels even at idle on silent mode. And in games, it outright howls as the fluid temps hit 50c.


Will have it under Custom Loop.


----------



## FlanK3r

860K is better than 760K, because the IPC is much better at 860K. In some tests cant Richland at 5 GHz hit the 4.4 GHz Kaveri (as wprime, superpi, bandwith, etc.) From my opinion is 860K better choice.

And with LN2 its not bad too (because Kaveri has coldbugs)


----------



## Dromihetes

I would pick the 860K over 760K anytime ,it has PCI-E 3.0 support ,performs well even at stock ,performs fluid in games (due to the optimized cache i presume) and is on the same price range ,if not lower depending of the market.If i can overclock it on my budget board to 4200 Mhz/2000Mhz (having no voltage settings whatsoever) then on a better board should go 4,5Ghz just fine.
It may be that some BIOS-es to limit the overclocking due to some bugs related to cTDP most probable.


----------



## HeadGear

http://valid.x86.fr/7360pu

New Daily clocks! I dropped my ram down to 1600 (well, 1630 with 101 fsb) and was able to lift my cpu ratio to 43, on the same temps, voltage and stability as 4.2ghz/1866.

Not too worried about the Ram speed, if I can get an extra 143mhz out of the CPU for daily use









For a relatively cheap mATX board, I am pretty happy with it now.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Sorry for the late reply, work trip got extended by a few days. These are from a 10 pack of Enzotech MOS-C10 copper heatsink that I got from newegg for $15 cdn free shipping.


Hey man I have the same motherboard but you put the heatsinks on the wrong part. You put the heatsinks on the inductors but you're suppose to put them on the VRM chips which are in clusters of three next to the inductors.

.:edit:.

I joined the forums a long time ago but am posting here as an owner of a 860K paired with a F2A88XM-D3H. The highest stable overclock I have gotten so far is 4.5GHz. I keep it at 4.3GHz at 1.368v and it's stable at those speeds. I'm currently going at OCing the CPU again to see.

One word of warning is that F7 BIOS update for F2A88XM-D3H will change something in the VCore settings.

F6 BIOS
4.5GHz (1.479V), 4.4GHz (1.461V), 4.3GHz (1.377V), 4.2GHz (1.377V), 4.1GHz (1.353V)

F7 BIOS
4.5GHz (~1.422V), 4.4GHz (1.422V), 4.3GHz (1.368V)

I'm running GSkill Ripjaws Z @2400MHz 10-12-12-31 up till 4.3GHz but anything beyond that speed for the 860K I start getting errors with the memory. The thing is that 2400MHz gives a boost in gaming compared to 1866MHz so I need to find a happy medium. I stay at 4.3GHz due to the decent temperatures/voltage, 2400MHz RAM, but due to iffy temperature readings I don't know if I want to go beyond that. I'm using an H100i by the way.


----------



## Goldn3agle

After some testing with my 860K I've found out why the CPU runs so much hotter than my 760k on the same voltages, my motherboard (ASRock Extreme 6+) handles the LLC differently, because if LLC is set to 0% on my 760K the set voltage is maintained but the 860K massively over-volts the chip (1.4V was 1.48V).
Also my delidding efforts haven't provided any tangible temperature reductions, so I wouldn't recommend doing it, unless you really want to of course.









It's still a great chip, just a shame about the poor overclocking.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Hey man I have the same motherboard but you put the heatsinks on the wrong part. You put the heatsinks on the inductors but you're suppose to put them on the VRM chips which are in clusters of three next to the inductors.
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> I joined the forums a long time ago but am posting here as an owner of a 860K paired with a F2A88XM-D3H. The highest stable overclock I have gotten so far is 4.5GHz. I keep it at 4.3GHz at 1.368v and it's stable at those speeds. I'm currently going at OCing the CPU again to see.
> 
> One word of warning is that F7 BIOS update for F2A88XM-D3H will change something in the VCore settings.
> 
> F6 BIOS
> 4.5GHz (1.479V), 4.4GHz (1.461V), 4.3GHz (1.377V), 4.2GHz (1.377V), 4.1GHz (1.353V)
> 
> F7 BIOS
> 4.5GHz (~1.422V), 4.4GHz (1.422V), 4.3GHz (1.368V)
> 
> I'm running GSkill Ripjaws Z @2400MHz 10-12-12-31 up till 4.3GHz but anything beyond that speed for the 860K I start getting errors with the memory. The thing is that 2400MHz gives a boost in gaming compared to 1866MHz so I need to find a happy medium. I stay at 4.3GHz due to the decent temperatures/voltage, 2400MHz RAM, but due to iffy temperature readings I don't know if I want to go beyond that. I'm using an H100i by the way.


hah, oh crap, maybe I never really needed them then, because it has been running great, will try for them in there, but thinking I will need bigger heat sinks to get all of them. I have been out of the game awhile, and apparently have an ego that didnt me let do proper research on what I was cooling, lol.


----------



## HeadGear

Yay, they fit. Thanks for the heads up again, will try some more clocks in the next few days.

All the vrm chips have contact with the heatsink, but as you can probably see, they are not completely covered, if this helps with higher clocks, will probably invest in larger sinks and try those out.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> After some testing with my 860K I've found out why the CPU runs so much hotter than my 760k on the same voltages, my motherboard (ASRock Extreme 6+) handles the LLC differently, because if LLC is set to 0% on my 760K the set voltage is maintained but the 860K massively over-volts the chip (1.4V was 1.48V).
> Also my delidding efforts haven't provided any tangible temperature reductions, so I wouldn't recommend doing it, unless you really want to of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's still a great chip, just a shame about the poor overclocking.


Thanks for the info. I never really saw people delidding an AMD CPU or at least talking about it and was surprised when you delidded the 860K. I may not delid it because bare mounting seems out of the question (not sure how I would do it) and the quality in which I would repaste/attach the IHS is questionable. But I have a dud 6790K that I might try practicing delidding.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> hah, oh crap, maybe I never really needed them then, because it has been running great, will try for them in there, but thinking I will need bigger heat sinks to get all of them. I have been out of the game awhile, and apparently have an ego that didnt me let do proper research on what I was cooling, lol.


Yeah I don't know if we need the actual heatsinks but I installed some on mine also just in case because I was planning on overclocking. Having a smaller fan spot cool the VRMs will probably be better than just having heatsinks on the VRM though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Yay, they fit. Thanks for the heads up again, will try some more clocks in the next few days.
> 
> All the vrm chips have contact with the heatsink, but as you can probably see, they are not completely covered, if this helps with higher clocks, will probably invest in larger sinks and try those out.


There you go. I don't know if the VRM/Mosfet have thermal readings on the F2A88XM-D3H. I wish they did so I could see differences without owning other equipment. At least you'r using copper heatsinks with more cooling surface. I'm using tiny individual heatsinks for each VRM chips and they're only made of aluminum. As far as the inductors I don't even know what they really do but I believe heat isn't a huge issue with them. I actually have some heatsinks on them like you originally did for the looks but cooling the VRM is more likely to lead to better OCs than cooling the inductors which is why I told you that. Good luck on your overclocking. I believe I need ~1.45V (+0.120) for 4.5GHz on F7 BIOS now.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Thanks for the info. I never really saw people delidding an AMD CPU or at least talking about it and was surprised when you delidded the 860K. I may not delid it because bare mounting seems out of the question (not sure how I would do it) and the quality in which I would repaste/attach the IHS is questionable. But I have a dud 6790K that I might try practicing delidding.
> Yeah I don't know if we need the actual heatsinks but I installed some on mine also just in case because I was planning on overclocking. Having a smaller fan spot cool the VRMs will probably be better than just having heatsinks on the VRM though.
> There you go. I don't know if the VRM/Mosfet have thermal readings on the F2A88XM-D3H. I wish they did so I could see differences without owning other equipment. At least you'r using copper heatsinks with more cooling surface. I'm using tiny individual heatsinks for each VRM chips and they're only made of aluminum. As far as the inductors I don't even know what they really do but I believe heat isn't a huge issue with them. I actually have some heatsinks on them like you originally did for the looks but cooling the VRM is more likely to lead to better OCs than cooling the inductors which is why I told you that. Good luck on your overclocking. I believe I need ~1.45V (+0.120) for 4.5GHz on F7 BIOS now.


Yeah, I will skip the whole delidding process if there isn't any gain to it, tbh. As much as I love tweaking my stuff, delidding without proof of improvement seems unnecassary, but thanks for the info, Goldn3agle, and taking the plunge.

Temp monitoring on this Mobo is frustrating. I know its possible, as there are a few situations where it seems to be read accurately (like CPUID validation) but I can't find a program that gives realtime feedback. Annoying. I have always disliked EasyTune, but if it works on F7 with this motherboard, I may have to use that. It has been completely inoperable previously for me. I really dislike OCing without realtime monitoring of my CPU temps, its like driving in the dark with only a flashlight. Doable, but not ideal.

As for VRM temps, I don't have external equipment either, so I just wanted to heatsink them to be safe. Since I still have another 4 heatsinks left in the first pacakge, I may try shifting the 4 on the left over a bit and doubling up, again, for the hell of it. I bought several packages, so don't mind using a few more if there can be some extra headroom or at the least, take the VRM heat issue out of the equation. I don't have a dedicated fan blowing directly on the heatsinks, but I do have pretty good airflow in the region. Since the Kuhler 1250 can only mount exhausting out the front in my case (CM N200) I have the back, top and side panel fans blowing air inward, causing a fair amount of turbulence and airflow over the mobo, graphics card and Ram. Even without direct airflow, I am sure the heatsinks would be pretty effective passively.

Is F7 a good bios update for OC? I don't seem much information on it, other than the APU Agesa version update on the Gigabyte website. No body out there seems to be talking about this board other than us, hah.


----------



## damric

My 860K runs very cool. 42C was max reported by the motherboard and 45C thermal margin My board likes to overvolt the hell out of it. All of the VID values are extremely high (like 1.5v for 4.2GHz) so I lower with the offset. I'm trying to stabilize 43.GHz for 24/7 use. The NB doesn't want to go past about 2GHz which kind of sucks since the RAM latency could certainly use the boost. I think that is just a poor OC chip with high VID and low leakage.

Opposite is true for my 760K. That CPU can OC to the sky and is just limited thermally. I'm still considering delidding that one so that maybe I can get a couple more degrees needed to stabilize 5GHz for 24/7 use.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Yeah, I will skip the whole delidding process if there isn't any gain to it, tbh. As much as I love tweaking my stuff, delidding without proof of improvement seems unnecassary, but thanks for the info, Goldn3agle, and taking the plunge.
> 
> Temp monitoring on this Mobo is frustrating. I know its possible, as there are a few situations where it seems to be read accurately (like CPUID validation) but I can't find a program that gives realtime feedback. Annoying. I have always disliked EasyTune, but if it works on F7 with this motherboard, I may have to use that. It has been completely inoperable previously for me. I really dislike OCing without realtime monitoring of my CPU temps, its like driving in the dark with only a flashlight. Doable, but not ideal.
> 
> As for VRM temps, I don't have external equipment either, so I just wanted to heatsink them to be safe. Since I still have another 4 heatsinks left in the first pacakge, I may try shifting the 4 on the left over a bit and doubling up, again, for the hell of it. I bought several packages, so don't mind using a few more if there can be some extra headroom or at the least, take the VRM heat issue out of the equation. I don't have a dedicated fan blowing directly on the heatsinks, but I do have pretty good airflow in the region. Since the Kuhler 1250 can only mount exhausting out the front in my case (CM N200) I have the back, top and side panel fans blowing air inward, causing a fair amount of turbulence and airflow over the mobo, graphics card and Ram. Even without direct airflow, I am sure the heatsinks would be pretty effective passively.
> 
> Is F7 a good bios update for OC? I don't seem much information on it, other than the APU Agesa version update on the Gigabyte website. No body out there seems to be talking about this board other than us, hah.


Coincidentally I am also using a Cooler Master N200. I liked how the case looked and the number of fans spots, with space for a 240mm radiator so I chose it. The build is a was suppose to be a Gigabyte/Cooler Master themed but when the H100i was at $64 I couldn't pass. Unlike the Kuhler 1250 I have my H100i as intakes at the front, side panel has an intake fan for the GPU/VRM, 60mm fan pointed at the VRM and then two 120mm fans as exhausts at the back and top.

I don't know what to think of the F7 bios. Something changed with either the VCore voltage or the LLC on the motherboard. With F6 VCore +0.054 use to be ~1.353V but with F7 +0.054 would be ~1.386V. When I subtracted to additional voltage boost from the total VCore I came up with a base VCore of ~1.299V on F6 but I get a base VCore of ~1.332V on F7. Additionally when overclocking on F6 with LLC on Auto the VCore dropped when the CPU was being stressed. For example lets say I had a VCore of 1.55V shown on CPU-Z at idle, when I was stressing the CPU 100% the VCore would have Vdroop to ~1.5-1.48v. But with F7 there is no change in the VCore when the CPU goes from Idle to 100% on CPU-Z. In general the overclocks I achieved on F6 BIOS can be done with lower voltages on F7 BUT the temperature numbers I'm reading seems a little higher then when I was using F6 BIOS. 3.7GHz (Stock Voltage) Idle at BIOS I get ~27C, 4.3GHz (1.368V) Idle at BIOS I get a temp reading of 33C, 4.5Hz (1.428V/1.452V) Idle at BIOS I get up to 37C. When I say I am getting higher temps with F7 that's when I am booted into Windows. Idle temps seem to be the same or slightly lower at the BIOS.

I don't think I ever got 4.7GHz stable and maybe the same with 4.6GHz. If I do get those speeds stable with the F7 BIOS maybe it's an improvement.


----------



## HeadGear

Maybe I am confused about the readings I am getting from CoreTemp, and what I am seeing is reported as thermal Margin (as opposed to current temp), and the TJunction reported of 80c is the Thermal Margin ceiling? I dunno man, taking a 4 year break from OCing AMD chips may have left me with some massive knowledge holes, hah.

Idle at stock settings, it shows 0c, occasionally bumping as high as +15c during gaming. Prime95 Small FFT at load it hits around mid 20s. Fluid temps of my Kuhler 1250 idle at 27c, and max out at about 35c during Small FFT.

OC'd to 4.4ghz, I am seeing a reported 10-15c at idle depending on ambients, up to 30c during gaming. Prime95 Small FFT hits around 45c. Fluid temps of my Kuhler 12fo idle around 33c, and max out at about 43c during Small FFT.

On my old AM2 system, the reported CPU temp exactly matched my fluid temps once stabilized during temp/load testing. For instance, my Athlon II x3 at 3.5ghz, running Prime95, would report a max of 42c, and after about 10mins of Small FFT the fluid temps would match it at 42c. 5 hours later, it was the exact same thing, 42/42 CPU/Fluid reported.

So my logical mind tells me that unless the TIM used instead of solder is causing an insulating later, my max fluid temp should be my max CPU temp, when under full load testing. I was assuming that wasn't true, considering the TIM being used, and the absurdly high temp readings in BIOS.

Oye.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Began stressing my CPU for stability and scratch my statement that there are little to no Vdroop with auto LLC on F7. VCore drops to 1.428/1.416V when stressed from 1.452V.

*HWMonitor
AMD A8/A10*
CPU Package ~50C/~72C
*Mobo*
CPU ~25C/~27C
Mainboard ~20C/~37C

*HWiNFO64
CPU 0*
CPU 0 Package ~50C/~72C
CPU 0 ~7C/~23C
*ITE IT8620E*
_CPU ~20C/~36C_
Mobo ~25C/~27C

*Corsair Link*
CPU ~50C/~72C
Mobo ~25C/~36C
_H100i/Water ~25C/~26C_

AMD Overdrive
_CPU Thermal Margin ~68C/~47C_

The water temperature of my H100i is quite similar to the CPU Temperatures given from the motherboard (~25C/~27C). But the CPU temp from Corsair Link is similar to the CPU Package temps of HWMonitor and MWiNFO64 (~50C/~73C). The thing that is getting me here is that if the CPU is indeed ~73C then the water temp should be higher than 27C right? I originally had hotter temps but using an aftermarket paste and reseating my cooler provided better temps. I have additional fans coming so I will be reseating the heatsink again to see if I can get better contact.

.:edit:.

4.7GHz seems stable at 1.55V for me so far. Crazy temp numbers though. Usually the exhaust air is cool/cold but with this OC the air is actually a tinybit warm. Computer is buggy, air isn't hot or even that warm, water temps only 30C, Thermal Margin ~20C yet CPU/Package shows ~100C+ temps.

HWiNFO64
CPU 0 ~49C
CPU 0 Package ~96-103C
_CPU ~67C_
Mobo ~30C

HWMonitor
CPU ~30C
CPU Package ~97-103C
Mobo ~61C

Corsair Link
CPU ~97--103C
Mobo ~61C
_H100i/Water ~30C_

AMD Overdrive
_Thermal Margin ~15-30C_

.:edit:.

*Okay so I decided that I am going to go by the temperature given by the ITE IT8620E Super I/O Controller. When my 860K is stressed at 4.7GHz it shows CPU Temps at ~57-70C and core temps of 40-50C. Additionally when testing for stability with Aida64, the program seems to use the CPU temps from the I/O controller. The temps may not be completely accurate but it may be the best. The maximum operating temperature for the 7850K is 72.4C. As the 860K is the 7850K without the IGP I would think the max operating temp is about the same. In that case the 50-60C temps would match the Thermal Margin of 15-30C I am getting in AMD Overdrive.

The 100C+ temps I get is too bizarre and somewhat unbelievable. Stability/Stress testing for several hours with so called 100C temps should not be possible without damaging the CPU significantly right? I mean there was no crashes during stability tests, no shutdowns due to heat, the air is fairly cool. There is still a chance I am wrong but I won't know until I my CPU gets an early death.*


----------



## damric

AMD CPU temps explained:

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> AMD CPU temps explained:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html


Oops I Rep+ you thinking it was the reply button. Oh well. Yes I've seen that post/guide before and I know about it. It's just the vastly different numbers make me and other people second guess the temps. Like I said in the previous post I think the CPU/Core Temps given by the Super I/O Controller is kind of accurate because it matches best with the Thermal Margins of AMD Overdrive. I have anywhere from 15C to 30C of Thermal Margin (headroom until max operating temp) when I am 100% stressing my CPU at 4.7GHz. Super I/O Controller says I have CPU Temps from 50-70C when stressed 100% with an AVG temp of 58C and average 45C on the Core. With a ~73C Max Operating Temp, 50C means I have ~20C of margin until I hit the max operating temp while 60C means I have 10C or less.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Oops I Rep+ you thinking it was the reply button. Oh well. Yes I've seen that post/guide before and I know about it. It's just the vastly different numbers make me and other people second guess the temps. Like I said in the previous post I think the CPU/Core Temps given by the Super I/O Controller is kind of accurate because it matches best with the Thermal Margins of AMD Overdrive. I have anywhere from 15C to 30C of Thermal Margin (headroom until max operating temp) when I am 100% stressing my CPU at 4.7GHz. Super I/O Controller says I have CPU Temps from 50-70C when stressed 100% with an AVG temp of 58C and average 45C on the Core. With a ~73C Max Operating Temp, 50C means I have ~20C of margin until I hit the max operating temp while 60C means I have 10C or less.


I thought it was the _report button_ to alert the mods









Anyways, as long as you don't hit the thermal margin, your CPU will not throttle clock speed back. That's all that really matters.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I thought it was the _report button_ to alert the mods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, as long as you don't hit the thermal margin, your CPU will not throttle clock speed back. That's all that really matters.


Yup which is why it stays at 4.7GHz without throttling. Thanks for your input/help


----------



## HeadGear

Yay, they fit, tomorrow I update the bios and abuse the cpu some more.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> AMD CPU temps explained:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html


+rep, exactly the info I needed to catch me up to speed with OCing the FM platform


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> 
> Yay, they fit, tomorrow I update the bios and abuse the cpu some more.


Boy that looks beautiful.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Boy that looks beautiful.


My ocd only noticed the bent heatsink posts from repeated handling and relocation, hah, also on the list for tomorrow is seeing if I can straighten those out a bit.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> My ocd only noticed the bent heatsink posts from repeated handling and relocation, hah, also on the list for tomorrow is seeing if I can straighten those out a bit.


Excluding the bent heatsink posts and 1 or 2 slightly rotated heatsinks I love how they turned out. Good luck straightening them.

After a long day of testing overclocks I think I'm going to stick with 4.5GHz. 4.7GHz is stable but at the cost of slower RAM speeds.

CPU: 4.5GHz (1.452V) - 4.7GHz (1.55V)
NB: 2200MHz (1.325V) - 2200MHz (1.325V)
RAM: 2400MHz (1.65V) - 1600MHz (1.65V)

With an OC at 4.7GHz I can kind of run RAM at 2400MHz with loose timings but there are occasional dips on the speeds. With lower clocked RAM those dips don't happen. This is with AIDA64 Stability Testing. With Prime95 I get an error very quickly in testing. With 4.5GHz I can drop the VCore from 1.55V to 1.452V, run RAM at 2400MHz and be stable at both AIDA64 and Prime95 for several hours. I believe the max voltage for the NB is ~1.325V. I could run the NB at 2000MHz with the stock 1.135V. But even with 1.325V I could not get the NB to run higher than 2200MHz. I might be able to lower the NB voltage a bit as I haven't tried dropping it down yet.Maybe its the 4+2 Phase design that is holding the CPU back.

Only test I have left is to see if I can raise the BLCK/FSB a few notches 1-3 and see if I can be stable at same voltages and then try to tighten the timings on the RAM. Once the additional radiator fans I bought last night come in I might go at it again for 4.7GHz with 2133MHz or 2400MHz RAM.

.:edit:.

Got a question do you guys think that the NB frequency needs to at least match the RAM frequency with FM2 platform? I usually run 2400MHz RAM but as my NB can only be 2200MHz I'm wondering if I should clock my RAM to 2133MHz instead.


----------



## drmrlordx

No, NB frequency does not need to match RAM "frequency". Remember, at DDR3-2400 settings, your DIMMs are only clocked to 300 mhz. Your NB is clocked to 2200 mhz (which is really high for Kaveri NB, good job!), but we don't know exactly how many times it can write data to/read data from the DIMMs per clock.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> No, NB frequency does not need to match RAM "frequency". Remember, at DDR3-2400 settings, your DIMMs are only clocked to 300 mhz. Your NB is clocked to 2200 mhz (which is really high for Kaveri NB, good job!), but we don't know exactly how many times it can write data to/read data from the DIMMs per clock.


Let's explore this a little bit more.
Quote:


> The CPU NorthBridge (CPU NB) clock speed determines the efficiency and bandwidth capacity of the Memory
> controller. L3 cache runs at this frequency as well. CPU NB performance tuning gives a measurable boost for
> overall system performance. In particular it can reduce the Memory latency and improve L3 cache bandwidth
> and latency. In some scenarios the CPU NB should be tuned in order to take the full advantage of overclocked
> Memory frequency and bandwidth. In general the CPU NB clock should be at least two times the Memory clock
> (example in case of DDR3-1600: 2 x 800MHz = 1600MHz NB clock).


^^That is from the official AMD bulldozer tuning guide.

Maybe that doesn't apply to steamroller, but it did apply to piledriver.

860K has a stock nb frequency of only 1800MHz. At this frequency my RAM latency was like 80ns for DDR3-2400CL10.

When I gave it a nudge to 2100MHz, it dropped the RAM latency down to about 70ns.

With the same RAM, my 760K with 2600MHz NB only has 50ns latency according to AIDA.

To me, that looks like the slow Kaveri NB is causing a latency bottleneck for the RAM.

Your thoughts?


----------



## HeadGear

Just an Update, currently stress testing 4.5ghz for daily use.

CPU Voltage set to +.240
4.5ghz/1.416v under load reported in CPUID, though up to 1.536 reported at idle.
2000mhz NB at +.120v
Memory is at 1600, 9-9-9-24 1.5v

Using Small FFTs, at about 45min right now, temps have stabilized.
Thermal Margin 25-30c
Fluid Temps at 42c, and the Kuhler 1250 fans/pumps are running at a slightly loud 1500rpm on silent setting... not crazy loud, but acceptable considering that it is stress testing.
VRM heatsinks are hot to touch though not hot enough to burn, definitely will need a spot fan on them in the near near future, but at least I know they are doing something!

Now, I haven't tested this at stock (probably should), AOD is reporting what appears to be a fair thermal margin, but the frequencies are jumping around a little. The cores seem to randomly be taking turns dropping to 1700mhz for a split second at a time, then going back up to 4500. Not sure if this is a sign of thermal protection, or just the way these chips operate.

To be clear, I have C&Q, turbo, C6, and APM turned off in the bios, and all adjustments have been made in the bios, I am only using AOD to monitor the thermal margin. I have LLC set to auto on CPU and NB.

Not sure where I should go from here. Like I said, seems stable, though only time will tell, not sure if i care for the idle voltage being so high. If proven stable, will bring the total voltage setting down a few notches and test again. With my cooling, I err on the side of over voltage when trying higher clocks.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> The CPU NorthBridge (CPU NB) clock speed determines the efficiency and bandwidth capacity of the Memory
> controller. L3 cache runs at this frequency as well. CPU NB performance tuning gives a measurable boost for
> overall system performance. In particular it can reduce the Memory latency and improve L3 cache bandwidth
> and latency. In some scenarios the CPU NB should be tuned in order to take the full advantage of overclocked
> Memory frequency and bandwidth. In general the CPU NB clock should be at least two times the Memory clock
> (example in case of DDR3-1600: 2 x 800MHz = 1600MHz NB clock).


Completely inapplicable to this discussion, though. We're talking about Athlons. Athlons don't have any L3 cache bandwidth or latency because they have no L3 cache to begin with.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Completely inapplicable to this discussion, though. We're talking about Athlons. Athlons don't have any L3 cache bandwidth or latency because they have no L3 cache to begin with.


That's true about the L3 because the Athlons lack the L3 Cache. While NB might have no impacts on L3 due to no L3 but they do have impact on memory performance. My question is how much of an impact and in which cases will that be visible. Will it be visible in everyday usages as far as opening programs, loading webpages, video games, etc.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Completely inapplicable to this discussion, though. We're talking about Athlons. Athlons don't have any L3 cache bandwidth or latency because they have no L3 cache to begin with.


That makes overclocking the CPU-NB even more important for the Athlons, since they will be accessing RAM more often. (Double edged sword).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> That's true about the L3 because the Athlons lack the L3 Cache. While NB might have no impacts on L3 due to no L3 but they do have impact on memory performance. My question is how much of an impact and in which cases will that be visible. Will it be visible in everyday usages as far as opening programs, loading webpages, video games, etc.


This I'm not sure yet. I'm slowly benching as I have time. What's funny is that my Athlon IIx4 620 at 3.2GHz gets about same score in futuremark cpu physics tests. So far my system doesn't _feel_ any slower, and I'm pulling almost the same score at 4.3GHz as my Athlon 760K at 4.5GHz. I'll post all these for comparison when I get a chance.

I'm kind of seeing why there is no steamroller AM3+ cpu. No one would want an FX that can't clock worth a crap.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That makes overclocking the CPU-NB even more important for the Athlons, since they will be accessing RAM more often. (Double edged sword).
> This I'm not sure yet. I'm slowly benching as I have time. What's funny is that my Athlon IIx4 620 at 3.2GHz gets about same score in futuremark cpu physics tests. So far my system doesn't _feel_ any slower, and I'm pulling almost the same score at 4.3GHz as my Athlon 760K at 4.5GHz. I'll post all these for comparison when I get a chance.
> 
> I'm kind of seeing why there is no steamroller AM3+ cpu. No one would want an FX that can't clock worth a crap.


I think whats why Kaveri did not see much improvement over 6800K. It has better IPC but is let down in other areas.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Let's explore this a little bit more.
> ^^That is from the official AMD bulldozer tuning guide.
> 
> Maybe that doesn't apply to steamroller, but it did apply to piledriver.
> 
> 860K has a stock nb frequency of only 1800MHz. At this frequency my RAM latency was like 80ns for DDR3-2400CL10.
> 
> When I gave it a nudge to 2100MHz, it dropped the RAM latency down to about 70ns.
> 
> With the same RAM, my 760K with 2600MHz NB only has 50ns latency according to AIDA.
> 
> To me, that looks like the slow Kaveri NB is causing a latency bottleneck for the RAM.
> 
> Your thoughts?


NB speed will affect memory latency for reasons having little to nothing to do with the speed of the memory it is controlling. The memory latency reported by AIDA and other applications is the sum total of the latency between the CPU and NB and the NB and RAM. There are two "hops", so to speak. Running the NB at a higher clockspeed will reduce the amount of time it takes to respond to read/write requests coming from the CPU. That alone will reduce overall memory latency, no matter what the speed of your memory. The IMC is capable of operating asynchronously, and has been since k8.

Kaveri's memory controller also has many things about it that are apparently different from Vishera (or any other previous AMD processor). It has been tuned to handle requests from both the CPU and iGPU. It likes dual rank DIMMs, while earlier IMCs prefer single rank DIMMs. Etc., etc.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Well I spent a few hours messing with my clocks and timings again. As the PC with my 860K is generally for gaming my goal is the highest FPS in games. I tested the 860K at speeds of 4.3GHz-4.7GHz, NB Frequencies of 2000-2200MHz and RAM speeds of 800MHz, 1866MHz, 2400MHz. Solely from FPS numbers tested on two games (Shadow of Mordor, Thief) the highest FPS came from CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz. On Shadow of Mordor every setting I tested provided the same AVG FPS and MIN FPS (68/46). It was in Thief that there were minor differences. CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz had an AVG FPS of 64 and MIN of 42. Almost 100% of the time memory higher frequency mattered more than a medium between frequency/timings. By that I mean 2400MHz with CAS 13 timing provided an additional 1-2 FPS compared to let's say 1866MHz with CAS 8/9.

4.3GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
68 (46)
59 (41)

4.4GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
68 (46)
59 (41)

4.5GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
68 (46)
63 (41)

4.7GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
68 (46)
64 (42)

Problem here is that there is no way I can run 2200MHz stable with 4.7GHz. 2000MHz will though so I am going to see if I can get 4.7GHz - 2000MHz - 2400MHz, if not I will go for 4.7GHz - 2000MHz - 1866MHz w/ Low Latency. Honestly I need to actually play a game (several different ones) to see if the OC will even provide additional performances in-game instead of benchmarks. I can already see what will be my two choices. CPU 4.5GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz or CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2000MHz - RAM 2400MHz/1866MHz. Whichever provides the best performance will be what the 860K runs at until the end of it's life. Unless there is a huge difference (which it seems like it won't be) I will most likely stick with 4.5GHz as it takes less voltage leading to less heat = longer life.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

5800K vs 860K. Both under water. Which will be better.


----------



## jsc1973

I'd go with an 860K, but overclocking is a crapshoot. It's possible that the 5800K could clock high enough under water to beat an overclocked 860K, but not very likely. You'd have a better shot if it were a 6800K. The Trinity/Richland chips need to clock about 400 MHz higher to beat an 860K.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I'd go with an 860K, but overclocking is a crapshoot. It's possible that the 5800K could clock high enough under water to beat an overclocked 860K, but not very likely. You'd have a better shot if it were a 6800K. The Trinity/Richland chips need to clock about 400 MHz higher to beat an 860K.


Ok then 860K it is.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I agree. Even with a 4+2 Phase motherboard that costed ~$64 when I bought it is able to overclock to 4.7GHz. With a better motherboard 4.8Hz should be much more possible, not sure about 4.9-5GHz+ though. Anway jsc1973 said you would need about 400MHz more for the Trinity/Richland CPUs to be equal so you'd need 5GHz- 5.2GHz.


----------



## matty50racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Well I spent a few hours messing with my clocks and timings again. As the PC with my 860K is generally for gaming my goal is the highest FPS in games. I tested the 860K at speeds of 4.3GHz-4.7GHz, NB Frequencies of 2000-2200MHz and RAM speeds of 800MHz, 1866MHz, 2400MHz. Solely from FPS numbers tested on two games (Shadow of Mordor, Thief) the highest FPS came from CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz. On Shadow of Mordor every setting I tested provided the same AVG FPS and MIN FPS (68/46). It was in Thief that there were minor differences. CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz had an AVG FPS of 64 and MIN of 42. Almost 100% of the time memory higher frequency mattered more than a medium between frequency/timings. By that I mean 2400MHz with CAS 13 timing provided an additional 1-2 FPS compared to let's say 1866MHz with CAS 8/9.
> 
> 4.3GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
> 68 (46)
> 59 (41)
> 
> 4.4GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
> 68 (46)
> 59 (41)
> 
> 4.5GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
> 68 (46)
> 63 (41)
> 
> 4.7GHz - 2200MHz - 2400MHz
> 68 (46)
> 64 (42)
> 
> Problem here is that there is no way I can run 2200MHz stable with 4.7GHz. 2000MHz will though so I am going to see if I can get 4.7GHz - 2000MHz - 2400MHz, if not I will go for 4.7GHz - 2000MHz - 1866MHz w/ Low Latency. Honestly I need to actually play a game (several different ones) to see if the OC will even provide additional performances in-game instead of benchmarks. I can already see what will be my two choices. CPU 4.5GHz - NB 2200MHz - RAM 2400MHz or CPU 4.7GHz - NB 2000MHz - RAM 2400MHz/1866MHz. Whichever provides the best performance will be what the 860K runs at until the end of it's life. Unless there is a huge difference (which it seems like it won't be) I will most likely stick with 4.5GHz as it takes less voltage leading to less heat = longer life.


Have you tried your ram at 2133? I have found it to be a sweet spot for timing/speed without needing any extra NB voltage.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> Have you tried your ram at 2133? I have found it to be a sweet spot for timing/speed without needing any extra NB voltage.


I've tried a little bit but not a lot. I am still trying to find the highest stable combination of CPU, NB, RAM Frequencies. The highest NB and RAM frequencies I can get for a 4.7GHz overclock is 2000MHz and 1866MHz (16-16-16-42), 4.6GHz = 2100MHz and 2133MHz (15-15-15-42), and 4.5GHz = 2200MHz and 2400 MHz (15-15-15-42). A CPU clock lower by 100MHz with a Higher RAM/NB Clock and Tighter Timings seem to lead to slight FPS improvements in games (1-10 FPS). I'm going to test this all the way down to 4.3GHz. After that I will do another test with the various CPU speeds all with 1800MHz NB and then try to have the highest frequency with timings as tight as possible. Finally I will then compare same CPU frequencies with same NB frequency with different RAM frequencies and timings.

.:edit:.

Also for me Higher Frequency with looser timings had a small 1-2FPS boost than 1866/2133 with tighter timings, but those were brief tests that I will going into a little more deeply later.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Well after all that OCing and testing basically _Highest CPU Frequency + Highest RAM Frequency + Tightest Timings_ beats everything else.

From _Highest CPU Frequency + Highest NB Frequency + Highest RAM Frequency_ 4.5GHz + 2200MHz + 2400MHz was had the highest FPS in games. But 4.7GHz + 2400MHz RAM w/ Tight Timings beat everything. Sadly 4.7GHz was stable enough to benchmarks several games for a short period of time without crashing but would instantly halt Prime95 when stressing.

I believe that the performance difference is too close for me to justify running a 4.7/4.6GHz overclock with ~1.55V. 4.3-4.5GHz seems to be the sweet spot, at least until a situation where the 860K bottlenecks a future GPU upgrade comes a long.

One of these will most likely be my final OC settings.

CPU: 4300MHz (1.368V) (13/39C)
NB: 1800MHz
RAM: 2400MHz (10-12-12-31 or 11-12-12-31)

CPU: 4400MHz (1.422V) (13/40C)
NB: 2200MHz
RAM: 2400MHz (14-14-14-42 or 15-15-15-42)

CPU: 4500MHz (1.452V) (14/51C)
NB: 1800MHz
RAM: 2400MHz (11-12-12-31 or 12-12-12-35)

CPU: 4500MHz (1.452V) (14/51C)
NB: 2000MHz
RAM: 2400MHz (15-15-15-42)


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> 5800K vs 860K. Both under water. Which will be better.


100% Kaveri chip because IPC is much better and some test are more than 30% better. Few examples (and this is with older Kaveri BIOS, I tried some test after 3/4 year and some results was a bit better):


----------



## damric

One of you guys see what frequency Kavieri needs to hit 4.0 in CB11.5. My 860K just won't clock that far.



That's what my 760K can do though. Open in new tab to see all adjustments


----------



## FlanK3r

but Kaveri hit similar score at 4.2 Ghz







. And its easy for Kaveri, average chips can do it whit default vboltage (with right board).


----------



## damric

That's weird. My 860K at 4.3GHz beat my 760K in multi-core but not single?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I havn't tried cinebench. Might do so later in the day.


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That's weird. My 860K at 4.3GHz beat my 760K in multi-core but not single?


IIRC the Steamroller modules (that are in Kaveri and as such the 860k) have two dedicated decoders and because of that they do better than Richland when using more than one thread per module.


----------



## Dromihetes

Games feel and are much smoother with the 860K than with the older architecture at similar CPU ,NB and RAM speeds.
If you play games running over 4Ghz on all cores ,2Ghz for NB and more than 1866Mhz on RAM it s all you need for good 1080p machine.
I feel less input lag than with the 5600K CPU side at identical speeds.
And the PCI-E 3.0 support is really a killer for older Athlons no matter how fast they are in Cinebench.








In my view it s quite comparable to 2 FX 6300 modules in games and this one features L3 cache.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I have no complaints about the 860K. I had a A10-6790K that kind of ran hot (no OC) and died a premature death. Since then I was stuck with an A4-4000 trying to play games. You can guess what a change it was getting the 860K. As for now the 860K is running at 4.5GHz, NB is 2000, RAM is 1866MHz (8-9-9-24). I ran Prime95 for 18 hours, no errors and no crashes. Maybe I could have gone 24 hours with it but the PC has been on for nearly 48 hours straight so I stopped it short. Maybe I can get 2133MHz to work with CAS 9. Now time to do some benchmarks.

.:edit:.

Just did Cinebench 11.5. At 4.5GHz my CPU (Single Core) is 1.17 but my multicore is only 3.89. MP Ration is 3.34x.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Games feel and are much smoother with the 860K than with the older architecture at similar CPU ,NB and RAM speeds.
> If you play games running over 4Ghz on all cores ,2Ghz for NB and more than 1866Mhz on RAM it s all you need for good 1080p machine.
> I feel less input lag than with the 5600K CPU side at identical speeds.
> And the PCI-E 3.0 support is really a killer for older Athlons no matter how fast they are in Cinebench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my view it s quite comparable to 2 FX 6300 modules in games and this one features L3 cache.


Exactly how I feel about this chip and platform, even at stock speeds, its a fantastic budget gaming setup, and considering the low cost of components, I have a fantastic little box. With overclocking, its just simply awesome, heh.

I had an old am2 box that donated a lot of parts to this rig (gpu, psu, cpu cooler, ssd and had, case), a triple core Athlon II that I OC'd to 3.5ghz, and the difference in overall daily usage and gaming is night and day.


----------



## damric

Just got my second HD 7850 for crossfire. I <3 OCN marketplace. My board can run these at x8/x8 x3.0 with the 860K. Benches to follow


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

4.7Ghz
4.42 pts - 387 cb
1.23 pts - 111
3.60x - 3.50x
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Just got my second HD 7850 for crossfire. I <3 OCN marketplace. My board can run these at x8/x8 x3.0 with the 860K. Benches to follow


Awesome. My motherboard has two PCIE X16 but one is 2.0 x4 which is not good for Xfire/SLI


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Just got 860K. Had to order a older A6 to flash my BIOS which was a bummer.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Just got 860K. Had to order a older A6 to flash my BIOS which was a bummer.


What board? I had to do that too. Wasted a bunch of thermal grease.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Just got 860K. Had to order a older A6 to flash my BIOS which was a bummer.


Yeah, I didn't have to do that toone, but it was a risk if I got older stock with older bios that disnt support kaveri, box didn't say what bios was installed.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Just got 860K. Had to order a older A6 to flash my BIOS which was a bummer.


I bought my board for the A10 6790K and the motherboard being an A88X I thought there would be no problems. Funny to learn that the motherboard BIOS supported all FM2 CPUs except the 6790K. I had to buy an A4-4000 to update the BIOS. Good thing was that when the 6790K stopped working I had a backup CPU to use until I bought the 860K.

One question to anyone who uses Cinebench. Does NB frequency and RAM Speeds have an effect on the CPU scores? 4.7GHz achieved the highest score but 4.4GHz (2200MHz, 2133MHz) beat 4.5GHz (2000MHz, 1866MHz) in CPU score by 4.20 to 3.89 but had an .01 lower score in CPU (Single).


----------



## FlanK3r

because propably APM...


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> What board? I had to do that too. Wasted a bunch of thermal grease.


UP4. It does support 7850K but not 860K.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Well I've hit a brick wall on overclocking my 860k, I don't know if there's something wrong with my particular motherboard or if the overclocking on Kaveri hasn't been properly tested by ASRock, but the motherboard won't overclock any Kaveri chips that I've tried (7850K and 860K) the CPU will be stable under load but will lock up at idle, and it won't set the Northbridge frequency or LLC.
And as I have nor the time or funds to be going around replacing motherboards, and it isn't something I can RMA for, I guess I'm stuck with it.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Well I've hit a brick wall on overclocking my 860k, I don't know if there's something wrong with my particular motherboard or if the overclocking on Kaveri hasn't been properly tested by ASRock, but the motherboard won't overclock any Kaveri chips that I've tried (7850K and 860K) the CPU will be stable under load but will lock up at idle, and it won't set the Northbridge frequency or LLC.
> And as I have nor the time or funds to be going around replacing motherboards, and it isn't something I can RMA for, I guess I'm stuck with it.


Where is your wall?

Hopefully further than mine at 4.2GHz 2GHz NB...


----------



## Goldn3agle

I don't think you understand, my wall is anything past stock.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I don't think you understand, my wall is anything past stock.


Lame, but not disastrous, does great gaming even at stock speeds, just sucks if OC was your goal.


----------



## kzone75

After an extremely long wait, it's finally here. And I didn't even have to pay for it because they said I've been waiting so patiently.







CPU-Z validation

Getting new thermal paste tomorrow and then it's time for a little more overclocking.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Any apu benchmarks out there? I'm interested in one of these for my htpc


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Any apu benchmarks out there? I'm interested in one of these for my htpc


The 860K does not have onboard graphics. Technically it is a cpu not an apu.


----------



## kzone75

Gonna work on the timings and NB frequency tomorrow morning. I think I can manage 4.5 or 4.6 GHz with the CM 212 Evo.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna work on the timings and NB frequency tomorrow morning. I think I can manage 4.5 or 4.6 GHz with the CM 212 Evo.


Nice OC!

Can you do some comparisons with your Pentium?


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Nice OC!
> 
> Can you do some comparisons with your Pentium?


Thanks! The Pentium rig is not with me at the moment, but I'll do comparisons when I get back home. Probably sometime by the end of January.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Finally got mine!
Got my rig together and all the parts I need one day before I had to go back home some 300km down south.
Assembled it and all was well, but it refused to turn on. I was scared ****less that I've connected something wrong and fried the thing (first rig and all that).
Fortunately the PSU was just bust so i just went to the store and used my warranty.
So now I'm home on my crappy lappy and the suspense is killing me. I have to wait till the 12th of January ._.

Got a 280x and a F2A88XM-D3H mobo alongside it so i guess that will work.


----------



## damric

A couple benches. Slightly worse in 3dm11 physics and combined than my last two CPUs (760K and FX-4100) but pretty good in Valley with only small bottleneck (95% GPU usage).


----------



## HeadGear

http://valid.x86.fr/7fpb24

Found some extra headroom in my daily clocks, by upping my ram speed with loose timings. Neat, hah. NB is still incapable of going above 2000, though.

4.7ghz, 1866c10, NB2ghz, and its daily stable. I might see 5ghz from this thing yet, hah, even if only for benching.


----------



## PhRe4k

My i5 died one me, and now I'm entertaining the thought of doing another AMD build using this CPU. Am I crazy?







For the cost of a replacement i5 I should be able to get a decent A88X board along with the CPU and still have change to spare


----------



## Goldn3agle

The 860k is a great chip, obviously not as good as a £100+ i5.
Couldn't hurt to try it out, you could always sell it if you don't approve.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> My i5 died one me, and now I'm entertaining the thought of doing another AMD build using this CPU. Am I crazy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the cost of a replacement i5 I should be able to get a decent A88X board along with the CPU and still have change to spare


It won't hang with a 4670K, if you're referring to the i5 in your sig. It's competitive with a pre-Sandy i5, though. If you overclock it to about 4.3 and put it with that 750Ti, it's plenty good enough.

And no, you're not crazy. The 860K is a great value for the money, as a true quad-core for $85. I saw them go for as little as $70 on Black Friday, and that was a steal.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Computer crashes while gaming in various setups. I don't think it's the 860K. Most likely the memory or video card but maybe even the motherboard. Running MemTest86+ on RAM to see if they have any errors at their rated speeds and timings (10-12-12-31, 2400MHz, 1.65V). For some reason the F2A88XM-D3H uses slightly less voltage (or it shows slightly lower numbers) then what they are set for. So when I have RAM at 1.65V it's only shows as ~1.644V. Memtest found errors very quickly when I was using 1.67V (shows as 1.65V) but with 1.65 (1.644) I don't have any errors so far. But it hasn't even been an hour. The integrated audio didn't work out of the box, the internal usb 3.0 header also has a little problem, and if the ram testing shows that the RAM slots have a problem I'm going to RMA the board. Probably will build an AM3+ build as I wait for motherboard RMA. Once the R9 290 comes I will check for crashes and see if it was indeed a video card problem.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It won't hang with a 4670K, if you're referring to the i5 in your sig. It's competitive with a pre-Sandy i5, though. If you overclock it to about 4.3 and put it with that 750Ti, it's plenty good enough.
> 
> And no, you're not crazy. The 860K is a great value for the money, as a true quad-core for $85. I saw them go for as little as $70 on Black Friday, and that was a steal.


I have a soft spot for AMD, started with my Athlon XP 1900+ up until my Phenom II 955







It would be faster and easier to go with an i5 replacement. Too bad there isn't enough reviews out for the 860K


----------



## RaduZ

All you need to know is in this thread, you don't need any reviews. For gaming and recording I have no problems with my A10-7850k(same thing as 860k)+R9 285 but I caution you if you do high quality 1080p video rendering you might want to stick with the i5, these things are a bit slow in that department.


----------



## damric

The problem with the 860K is that no motherboards support it out of the box. All of us have had to use an older processor to update the BIOS or it wouldn't even POST.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The problem with the 860K is that no motherboards support it out of the box. All of us have had to use an older processor to update the BIOS or it wouldn't even POST.


...
u srs?
Are you telling me i'll have to flash a new BIOS right of the box on a f2a88xm d3h? Because this is literally my only pc, bought like a week ago.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> ...
> u srs?
> Are you telling me i'll have to flash a new BIOS right of the box on a f2a88xm d3h? Because this is literally my only pc, bought like a week ago.


Yes, this has been mentioned several times in this thread by the people that have bought 860Ks already. Not one person was able to even POST. Luckily I had a 760K on hand. Let us know if your D3H works.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Yes, this has been mentioned several times in this thread by the people that have bought 860Ks already. Not one person was able to even POST. Luckily I had a 760K on hand. Let us know if your D3H works.


Yeah but I thought those were on older mobos, so i didn't concern myself since mine is literally brand new.
This sucks massive bollocks and will probably just add more cost to my build since i kinda doubt the pc repair dude down the street will give me a freebie twice in a row...

And honestly i have no idea what POST is. (EDIT: nvm i just knew it by a different name)


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Yeah but I thought those were on older mobos, so i didn't concern myself since mine is literally brand new.
> This sucks massive bollocks and will probably just add more cost to my build since i kinda doubt the pc repair dude down the street will give me a freebie twice in a row...
> 
> And honestly i have no idea what POST is. (EDIT: nvm i just knew it by a different name)


Maybe you will get lucky and the F6 BIOS will already be installed. I had no such luck with the MSI board I bought with my 860K.

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4716


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Maybe you will get lucky and the F6 BIOS will already be installed. I had no such luck with the MSI board I bought with my 860K.
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4716


Well thanks for the heads up anyway.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The problem with the 860K is that no motherboards support it out of the box. All of us have had to use an older processor to update the BIOS or it wouldn't even POST.


My f2a88xm-d3h came with f6 bios installed.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> ...
> u srs?
> Are you telling me i'll have to flash a new BIOS right of the box on a f2a88xm d3h? Because this is literally my only pc, bought like a week ago.


Yeah I bought my F2A88XM-D3H at the beginning of the year. Warranty began on Jan 13th so that's probably when. Only when there has been a revision update for the board is it likely that you may get a motherboard with the latest update. Mine is revision 3.0, the newest is 3.1, and mine came with BIOS F1 or F2 BIOS. You will need F6 to run the 860K.

As for Crimson Mutt, I hope for the best that your motherboard might come with the F6 or F7 BIOS that is needed.

.:edit:.

Good thing to chime in HeadGear. He may not need an older APU to update the BIOS then.

.:edit:.

Well I found the culprit to my PC instability. One of the 2400MHz DIMMs got errors in Memtest86+ in less than 10 minutes. First run got 18 errors while the second run got nearly 2000 errors in the same amount of time. The sad thing is that the other stick of RAM ran through several passes and over 6 hours without any errors. Once I check the new video card to make sure it's not DoA I'll have to RMA and be Desktopless for a while.


----------



## WhiteSnake91

I'm interested in maybe doing an 860k mini itx build, I've seen first hand how well the a10 5800k can game on ultra 1080p my bro has with a 660ti and it's essentially the cheap 75 dollar athlon x4 750k.

I'm glad I just read the post about it not posting on any mobo though, it would be a pain but I guess eventually I could borrow my bro's a10 5800k to do it lol.

My bro's pc keeps up with mine in BF4 and average use, which is amazing since my i5 cost 3 times nearly as much as the athlon 750k would cost.

I notice not many talk about the 860k, seems underrated, and interesting since it's Streamroller. They supposedly improved the cache and multitasking somewhat from an earlier review I saw.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteSnake91*
> 
> I'm interested in maybe doing an 860k mini itx build, I've seen first hand how well the a10 5800k can game on ultra 1080p my bro has with a 660ti and it's essentially the cheap 75 dollar athlon x4 750k.
> 
> I'm glad I just read the post about it not posting on any mobo though, it would be a pain but I guess eventually I could borrow my bro's a10 5800k to do it lol.
> 
> My bro's pc keeps up with mine in BF4 and average use, which is amazing since my i5 cost 3 times nearly as much as the athlon 750k would cost.
> 
> I notice not many talk about the 860k, seems underrated, and interesting since it's Streamroller. They supposedly improved the cache and multitasking somewhat from an earlier review I saw.


It's a great CPU. There's still not enough information about it and the big reason is probably because a lot of people interested in this part of the market probably already owns an 750K or the 760K well known for it's high overclocking. The 760K is the most popular due to the fact they tend to reach 5GHz much easier than the previous 750K just like how the 6800K clocked better compared to the 5800K. But with the single core improvement of Steamroller over Piledriver a lower clocked 860K should and does beat the 760K. As most 860K reach 4.5GHz and 4.7/4.8GHz being about the highest I've seen go it should perform better than the 760K. One limit though with the 860K is the NB I believe. It doesn't clock as high as Richland APU/CPUs did.


----------



## jsc1973

If anybody wants one, they're on sale today at Tiger Direct and Amazon (through TD) for $69.99 plus $4.18 s/h, which is the best price I've seen on an 860K since Black Friday. I had some Amazon gift cards to burn, so I placed an order for one. Since I'm already on my latest BIOS anyway, I should be good to go when it arrives.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If anybody wants one, they're on sale today at Tiger Direct and Amazon (through TD) for $69.99 plus $4.18 s/h, which is the best price I've seen on an 860K since Black Friday. I had some Amazon gift cards to burn, so I placed an order for one. Since I'm already on my latest BIOS anyway, I should be good to go when it arrives.


Nice! Not sure what mobo to get though, not sure if I will get one with an older BIOS


----------



## WhiteSnake91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Nice! Not sure what mobo to get though, not sure if I will get one with an older BIOS


this is what I'm worried of lol. My bro wouldn't exactly be happy to be without his CPU so I could update the bios with his a10 5800k. And if I have to spend the money on a cheap dual core fm2 cpu just to flash it, I might as well get the a8 7800 which I heard isn't too shabby either.

tbh I haven't get up MUCH with Kaveri, I just read the hardwarecanuck's review from back in ~Jan saying the a8 7800 did pretty much as well as the a10 7850k while consuming less power, since then, I believe they've come out with an a10 7700k or something of the sort.

If anybody cares to watch it, I liked this jays2cents vid about him doing a mini itx kaveri build







, it played BF4 multiplayer very decently. So this 860k would do just as good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWans5FU4cU

I agree with the others that I have a soft spot in my heart for AMD too, back in the day I really wanted a Phenom 965 and gtx 460 pc haha. Last week I finally built a Phenom x6 1055t secondary pc and I'm quite pleased with the performance. My bro has been fine at 1080p ultra gaming with a 660ti with his a10 5800k honestly.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Anyone can help with overclocking 860K? I tried to set the Voltage to 1.45v and CPU temps in BIOS increased to 72C from 38C stock? How much voltage do i need to get 4.4 to 4.6GHz if it even goes this high. What voltage for NB to get 2000MHz? I am running 2400MHz DDR3 CL11. MB is UP4


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

What motherboard are you using? The temps shown by the motherboard may be wrong. Double check by running AMD Overdrive and checking it's Thermal Margin at Idle and Load numbers. I needed 1.54/1.55V for 4.6GHz/4.7GHz for my F2A88XM-D3H I believe.

I think 4.5GHz may be the point where you don't get as much back compared to the voltage you put into the CPU. I can run 4.3GHz with stock voltages or a little less I think, and up to 4.5GHz I only need to raise the voltage in similar small increments. For example 4.3GHz required +0.036V or stock voltage, 4.4GH required +0.090V, 4.5GHz required +0.160V, but 4.6GHz and 4.7Ghz needed like +0.216/0.222V.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> What motherboard are you using? The temps shown by the motherboard may be wrong. Double check by running AMD Overdrive and checking it's Thermal Margin at Idle and Load numbers. I needed 1.54/1.55V for 4.6GHz/4.7GHz for my F2A88XM-D3H I believe.
> 
> I think 4.5GHz may be the point where you don't get as much back compared to the voltage you put into the CPU. I can run 4.3GHz with stock voltages or a little less I think, and up to 4.5GHz I only need to raise the voltage in similar small increments. For example 4.3GHz required +0.036V or stock voltage, 4.4GH required +0.090V, 4.5GHz required +0.160V, but 4.6GHz and 4.7Ghz needed like +0.216/0.222V.


What is your VID on your chip? Mine is hella high already like 1.45v at stock, lol. The Stilt gave a warning that these 860Ks are a bit more fragile so I'm shy about pushing as much voltage as I have in the past.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> What is your VID on your chip? Mine is hella high already like 1.45v at stock, lol. The Stilt gave a warning that these 860Ks are a bit more fragile so I'm shy about pushing as much voltage as I have in the past.


I don't know for sure, and am away from the computer. When I was running the F6 BIOS on my motherboard I believe it was 1.3V or a bit higher like 1.375V at the stock 3.5GHz with Turbo Boost disabled. But with Turbo Boost enabled I believe that it will use up to 1.4V. From the math I have done previously when I had all power saving options off I used +0.036V and the total was 1.368V in the BIOS and Windows. Because I have run over 24 hours of prime 95 at 4.3GHz/1.368V I believe that is a stable voltage. Which is probably why I can raise the Turbo Boost multiplier to 43 for 4.3GHz and not crash. I remember that in a 860K review the reviewer stated the stock VID was 1.5V to begin with (Overclock3D). That was one reason I stayed away from the 860K but then an owner said the stock voltage was more like 1.3-1.375V so I bought the 860K. I believe the stock VID the F2A88XM-D3H sets with F7 BIOS is ~1.322V or 1.332V. F6 BIOS was a little lower at ~1.312V.


----------



## HeadGear

To get 4.5ghz stable day to day, I have to run +.144v on the F7 bios. Idle voltage is a little higher than under load, 1.404v idle, 1.392v under load. This is with LLC set to medium. With my Antec Kuhler 1250, this is the perfect compromise between daily performance and noise. When gaming its loud, but I can't be bothered, heh, but under light load, like standard day to day internetting and netflix, its silent.

At 4.7, I needed to funnel a lot more volts into it, +.220, and it was too hot to be silent during low usage periods, so I have a 4.7 profile I use only for gaming intensely when the GF isn't home, otherwise I keep it at 4.5ghz all day, and can't really complain.

My next day off, I will try one-shotting 5ghz for benching, heh, have been able to boot into 4.9 at massive volts. Since the chip is so cheap, I don't mind blowing one up in the pursuit of Gigaz


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> To get 4.5ghz stable day to day, I have to run +.144v on the F7 bios. Idle voltage is a little higher than under load, 1.404v idle, 1.392v under load. This is with LLC set to medium. With my Antec Kuhler 1250, this is the perfect compromise between daily performance and noise. When gaming its loud, but I can't be bothered, heh, but under light load, like standard day to day internetting and netflix, its silent.
> 
> At 4.7, I needed to funnel a lot more volts into it, +.220, and it was too hot to be silent during low usage periods, so I have a 4.7 profile I use only for gaming intensely when the GF isn't home, otherwise I keep it at 4.5ghz all day, and can't really complain.
> 
> My next day off, I will try one-shotting 5ghz for benching, heh, have been able to boot into 4.9 at massive volts. Since the chip is so cheap, I don't mind blowing one up in the pursuit of Gigaz


Yeah I agree. My 860K needs very similar volts to what you are needing. 4.7GHz needs .222 and yup with the fan curve I have set the H100i is too loud to run for non gaming uses. Once again 4.3GHz can be done basically in stock voltages so my computer is super quiet when not gaming and still nice when gaming. 4.5GHz doesn't make the H100i that loud either. When I get my 8350 next week I will be swapping the H100i out to the 8350 and using the Hyper TX3 again. Most likely I will have the CPU set to Turbo Boost to 4.3GHz so that the TX3 can cool the CPU well enough. The 860K will now be my HTPC/Gaming PC for the basement living room while the new 8350 build will be my dedicated gaming/video and photo editing/rendering Desktop.


----------



## damric

FYI I will most likely be putting my Extreme6+ on the marketplace soon. My brother-in-law gave me a Z97 board last week and I only need 3 computers in the house. Keeping my 760K for back-up though in case I explode this 860K


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> ...
> u srs?
> Are you telling me i'll have to flash a new BIOS right of the box on a f2a88xm d3h? Because this is literally my only pc, bought like a week ago.


get the new bios on a flash drive then boot the pc with only 1 ddr3 memory modual and no hard drive attached and you should be abel to get into the bios to update it. It worked for me


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> What motherboard are you using? The temps shown by the motherboard may be wrong. Double check by running AMD Overdrive and checking it's Thermal Margin at Idle and Load numbers. I needed 1.54/1.55V for 4.6GHz/4.7GHz for my F2A88XM-D3H I believe.
> 
> I think 4.5GHz may be the point where you don't get as much back compared to the voltage you put into the CPU. I can run 4.3GHz with stock voltages or a little less I think, and up to 4.5GHz I only need to raise the voltage in similar small increments. For example 4.3GHz required +0.036V or stock voltage, 4.4GH required +0.090V, 4.5GHz required +0.160V, but 4.6GHz and 4.7Ghz needed like +0.216/0.222V.


I am using GA-F2A88X-UP4. The moment i increase voltage temp increase exponentially in BIOS. I am going to try 42 with stock voltage which is 1.375v.


----------



## drmrlordx

I doubt 1.375v is really your stock voltage. It may just be where your board puts it for whatever reason. My board (A88x-Pro) likes to put voltage at around 1.31v if I leave all settings on auto. It can easily do 3.9-4.0 ghz (depending on other settings) with only 1.2125v vcore which is what the board claims is the VID. It detected a different VID after I flashed the UEFI, too.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I doubt 1.375v is really your stock voltage. It may just be where your board puts it for whatever reason. My board (A88x-Pro) likes to put voltage at around 1.31v if I leave all settings on auto. It can easily do 3.9-4.0 ghz (depending on other settings) with only 1.2125v vcore which is what the board claims is the VID. It detected a different VID after I flashed the UEFI, too.


Have not checked 100% but its does 4.2GHz with everything in Auto.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> get the new bios on a flash drive then boot the pc with only 1 ddr3 memory modual and no hard drive attached and you should be abel to get into the bios to update it. It worked for me


Awesome sir, will try this out. Now I just need a good mobo







I picked up the 860K for $70


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I am using GA-F2A88X-UP4. The moment i increase voltage temp increase exponentially in BIOS. I am going to try 42 with stock voltage which is 1.375v.


As i found out with this platform, the temps are not read nor evaluated the same as before.

Instead of a exact current temp reading (which is not available on the FM2+ platform) the only way to measure how heat is doing, is to use AMD OverDrive (AOD).

AOD reports the thermal margin, or the temp headroom left at any given moment. This is the only measurement you can trust on the FM2 motherboards when overclocking.

When you exceed Thermal Margin, the CPU downclocks to protect itself. If you try to go by BIOS temp reading alone, you will get no where, as it isn't a true reading, and is wildly over measured.

My BIOS says that my chip, at 4.5ghz/1.392v, is at 85c at both idle and load, which is impossible. AOD reports at that same idle workload, that I have 45c thermal margin, or 45c of temp left before the CPU will downclock. Under P95 smallFFTs, my thermal margin will drop to about 27c, and at this point, there is no cpu throttling. I have noticed that the CPU starts mild downclock fluctuations at about 15c thermal margin, and drastic throttling at low, single digits.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> get the new bios on a flash drive then boot the pc with only 1 ddr3 memory modual and no hard drive attached and you should be abel to get into the bios to update it. It worked for me


So just have one memory stick in there, no HDD, no discrete GPU and no CPU, and it should update?

It just needs the A88XMD3H.F7 file in the root folder, right?

do i need to format the USB drive or just slam the .F7 file in the root directory and not delete anything else?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> As i found out with this platform, the temps are not read nor evaluated the same as before.
> 
> Instead of a exact current temp reading (which is not available on the FM2+ platform) the only way to measure how heat is doing, is to use AMD OverDrive (AOD).
> 
> AOD reports the thermal margin, or the temp headroom left at any given moment. This is the only measurement you can trust on the FM2 motherboards when overclocking.
> 
> When you exceed Thermal Margin, the CPU downclocks to protect itself. If you try to go by BIOS temp reading alone, you will get no where, as it isn't a true reading, and is wildly over measured.
> 
> My BIOS says that my chip, at 4.5ghz/1.392v, is at 85c at both idle and load, which is impossible. AOD reports at that same idle workload, that I have 45c thermal margin, or 45c of temp left before the CPU will downclock. Under P95 smallFFTs, my thermal margin will drop to about 27c, and at this point, there is no cpu throttling. I have noticed that the CPU starts mild downclock fluctuations at about 15c thermal margin, and drastic throttling at low, single digits.


Ok thanks. I was just worried because the fans would ramp up because i am controlling them with CPU MB header.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Have not checked 100% but its does 4.2GHz with everything in Auto.


Yeah, that's about where my 7700k will go @ 1.3125v vcore. 4.5 takes maybe 1.4v vcore (I CAN lock it up at those settings, but it's . . . difficult). I just redid my cooling big time so I have to go back and see if 4.6 and 4.7 ghz are now stable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> As i found out with this platform, the temps are not read nor evaluated the same as before.
> 
> Instead of a exact current temp reading (which is not available on the FM2+ platform) the only way to measure how heat is doing, is to use AMD OverDrive (AOD).
> 
> AOD reports the thermal margin, or the temp headroom left at any given moment. This is the only measurement you can trust on the FM2 motherboards when overclocking.
> 
> When you exceed Thermal Margin, the CPU downclocks to protect itself. If you try to go by BIOS temp reading alone, you will get no where, as it isn't a true reading, and is wildly over measured.
> 
> My BIOS says that my chip, at 4.5ghz/1.392v, is at 85c at both idle and load, which is impossible. AOD reports at that same idle workload, that I have 45c thermal margin, or 45c of temp left before the CPU will downclock. Under P95 smallFFTs, my thermal margin will drop to about 27c, and at this point, there is no cpu throttling. I have noticed that the CPU starts mild downclock fluctuations at about 15c thermal margin, and drastic throttling at low, single digits.


AOD is not the only application available capable of tracking thermal margin. CoreTemp will track it (reports it as CPU #0), for example. Socket temperature is also somewhat relevant, and you can track that with hwmonitor or SpeedFan.

Under Linux, lm_sensors will track thermal margin and only thermal margin.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Yeah, that's about where my 7700k will go @ 1.3125v vcore. 4.5 takes maybe 1.4v vcore (I CAN lock it up at those settings, but it's . . . difficult). I just redid my cooling big time so I have to go back and see if 4.6 and 4.7 ghz are now stable.
> AOD is not the only application available capable of tracking thermal margin. CoreTemp will track it (reports it as CPU #0), for example. Socket temperature is also somewhat relevant, and you can track that with hwmonitor or SpeedFan.
> 
> Under Linux, lm_sensors will track thermal margin and only thermal margin.


I agree, whatever sensor AIDA64 uses is pretty accurate for the 860K also. It gets the CPU and CPU Core temps pretty correctly and it matches with the thermal margin numbers given by AOD. By matching I mean that the alleged CPU Temps match the CPU headroom given by AOD from the CPUs Max Operational Temps. Also HWMonitor or HWInfo gets the same temps also and I believe one of them is CPU #0 like you said with CoreTemp.


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> So just have one memory stick in there, no HDD, no discrete GPU and no CPU, and it should update?
> 
> It just needs the A88XMD3H.F7 file in the root folder, right?
> 
> do i need to format the USB drive or just slam the .F7 file in the root directory and not delete anything else?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> So just have one memory stick in there, no HDD, no discrete GPU and no CPU, and it should update?
> 
> It just needs the A88XMD3H.F7 file in the root folder, right?
> 
> do i need to format the USB drive or just slam the .F7 file in the root directory and not delete anything else?


You still need a gpu cause you won't see the screeen otherwise, and you need to see the screen to select the update bios thing in the bios, atleast i did on my asus board.
You need the following:
-Motherboard
-CPU
-GPU(unless you have an apu)
-1 stick of ram in the first slot
-1 flash drive with the new bios on
-And some good luck


----------



## RaduZ

Sorry for the weird post, I was writing on the tablet, and i can't edit it for some reason...
Oh and you don't need to format it, on my board it lets u search threw the files on the drive.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> You still need a gpu cause you won't see the screeen otherwise, and you need to see the screen to select the update bios thing in the bios, atleast i did on my asus board.
> You need the following:
> -Motherboard
> -CPU
> -GPU(unless you have an apu)
> -1 stick of ram in the first slot
> -1 flash drive with the new bios on
> -And some good luck


Hmm i was told that internal or no internal graphics that every processor can display at least the bios thought the mobo DVI/DSUB connectors.

So basically i just need to unplug one memory module and the hdd and im all set. Cool


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Hmm i was told that internal or no internal graphics that every processor can display at least the bios thought the mobo DVI/DSUB connectors.
> If that is true than you don,t need a gpu, i did not kknow that.
> So basically i just need to unplug one memory module and the hdd and im all set. Cool


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Hmm i was told that internal or no internal graphics that every processor can display at least the bios thought the mobo DVI/DSUB connectors.
> 
> So basically i just need to unplug one memory module and the hdd and im all set. Cool


Most CPUs have some form of iGPU but because these are APUs with a deactivated iGPU, they won't be able to output any video signal due to the absence of display processing hardware.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> You still need a gpu cause you won't see the screeen otherwise, and you need to see the screen to select the update bios thing in the bios, atleast i did on my asus board.
> You need the following:
> -Motherboard
> -CPU
> -GPU(unless you have an apu)
> -1 stick of ram in the first slot
> -1 flash drive with the new bios on
> -And some good luck


Will try this as soon as I decide on a mobo.. Any ideas what A88X mobo to get? Regular ATX with good vrm cooling/overclocking preferred


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> Most CPUs have some form of iGPU but because these are APUs with a deactivated iGPU, they won't be able to output any video signal due to the absence of display processing hardware.


IDK, i was straight up told by a PC servicer that even the chips with no integrated graphics can display at least the BIOS or simple text menus.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> IDK, i was straight up told by a PC servicer that even the chips with no integrated graphics can display at least the BIOS or simple text menus.


Thats impssoble. Problem is most OEM PC come with Integrated GPU or Intel CPU so that have integrated GPUs.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Well the R9 290 just arrived. I'm gonna see what kind of improvements it gives to the 860K in gaming (over the 7850 1GB) until my 8350 build is done.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Thats impssoble. Problem is most OEM PC come with Integrated GPU or Intel CPU so that have integrated GPUs.


Ill just leave the 280x in there and call it a day i think ._.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Installed R9 290 and played around a little in Unity and Inquisition. I was expecting horrible performance due to, you know, AMD CPUs not being up to standards with Intel but the performance is perfectly fine with me. Not even sure I need to build a 8350 build right now. Not exactly 60FPS straight but doesn't seem to go lower than mid 30s in town with people in Unity and stay around 60FPS in Inquisition.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Installed R9 290 and played around a little in Unity and Inquisition. I was expecting horrible performance due to, you know, AMD CPUs not being up to standards with Intel but the performance is perfectly fine with me. Not even sure I need to build a 8350 build right now. Not exactly 60FPS straight but doesn't seem to go lower than mid 30s in town with people in Unity and stay around 60FPS in Inquisition.


Thats with details cranked up to ultra or?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Thats with details cranked up to ultra or?


With inquisition it's with everything maxed (except AA, I don't really use those) and with Unity it's just on High.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> With inquisition it's with everything maxed (except AA, I don't really use those) and with Unity it's just on High.


Thats actually much better than expected (doubly so seeing the magnificent bundle of failure that Unity's optimization was).
I expected to get like medium settings 60fps at 1080p for a few years at best with this rig. I guess i lowered my expectations a lot since my laptop hasn't really aged well.

In any case, awesome! seems the 860k was a really good investment.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Thats actually much better than expected (doubly so seeing the magnificent bundle of failure that Unity's optimization was).
> I expected to get like medium settings 60fps at 1080p for a few years at best with this rig. I guess i lowered my expectations a lot since my laptop hasn't really aged well.
> 
> In any case, awesome! seems the 860k was a really good investment.


Yeah, I don't remember if I installed any of the patches on this game before I forgot my password to my Uplay account. I've had to recover and change the password so many times I tend to forget each new password. So I just used a crack to test it out on the R9 290. I'm happy with the investment also (860K).

.:edit:.

Also this is with the 860K at stock running at the max turbo boost of 4GHz instead of my usual 4.3, 4.5, or 4.7.

.:edit:.

Might build the stronger AM3+ PC anyway. The CPU is still a bottleneck to the R9 290 and especially shows in Ubisoft games like AC3, Watch Dogs. I want to test it in Witcher 2 but I'm having issues connecting to Steam's Network through their program.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah, I don't remember if I installed any of the patches on this game before I forgot my password to my Uplay account. I've had to recover and change the password so many times I tend to forget each new password. So I just used a crack to test it out on the R9 290. I'm happy with the investment also (860K).
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> Also this is with the 860K at stock running at the max turbo boost of 4GHz instead of my usual 4.3, 4.5, or 4.7.
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> Might build the stronger AM3+ PC anyway. The CPU is still a bottleneck to the R9 290 and especially shows in Ubisoft games like AC3, Watch Dogs. I want to test it in Witcher 2 but I'm having issues connecting to Steam's Network through their program.


Why not OC and see if it helps with the bottleneck?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Why not OC and see if it helps with the bottleneck?


Now that I am done with the dishes I'm going to check my general FPS on stock, then 4.3, then 4.7GHz. to see what kind of improvements I see.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I did very simple tests in Watch Dogs and AC: Unity where I basically stay still at the location I load into. I'm not backing the numbers on these but here are my findings.

*4GHz - 2200MHz - 2133MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 39/40 and ACU: 40/41
4.3GHz - 2200MHz - 2133MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 41/44 and ACU: 41/42
4.4GHz - 2200MHz - 2133MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 41/44 and ACU: 43/44
4.5GHz - 2100MHz - 2133MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 30s and ACU: 30s
4.6GHz - 2100MHz - 2133MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 30s and ACU: 30s
4.7GHz - 2000MHz - 1866MHz (9-11-10-28) = WD: 30s and ACU: 30s*

Going from 4GHz to 4.4GHz got me additional FPS in those two games but starting from 4.5-4.7GHz performance dropped below 4GHz. I wonder if the change in NB Frequency can make that much of a difference or if it was the CPU throttling. Numbers were a little fishy so I set my CPU back to 4.3GHz and FPS were back to 44/45 for AC:Unity. I am going to try 4.7GHz again but have fans at max RPM to see if it was throttling due to heat.

.:edit:.

Went to 4.7GHz and set fans to run at Maximum RPM (2500-2700RPM) compared to my custom fan profile that kept RPM around 1100-1400 at the particular H100i Water Temp. Didn't help. It's not a heat issue. The problem is that when I have my 860K clocked any higher than x44 (4.4GHz) two of my cores stays at 1.7GHz when looking at AMD Overdrive. I have no clue why this has began to happen as 4.7GHz was stable and tested for at least 12 hours almost a month ago. I've been using the PC at only stock or 4.3GHz too. I guess 4.4GHz is what I'll use for now.

.:edit:.

Update. I don't think it has to do with the clock speed. Lately I have been OCing through Turbo Boost because I didn't need the extra power really. I use to be able to OC manually and get all four cores to be the set speed but now if I OC through normal CPU multipliers 2 of the cores are 1.7GHz. I think the issue is either with some of the energy saving settings I disable or it's OCing through CPU Multipliers. I'm going to check which one is the issue.

.:edit:.

Okay problem isn't Turbo Boost OCing either. I OCed to 4.4GHz with Turbo Boost and 2-Cores are still throttled.

.:edit:.

*Found the problem. For some reason when I disable Cool&Quiet the motherboard sets 2-cores to stay at 1.7GHz. I checked each power saving setting in the BIOS and enabling Cool&Quiet finally made all four cores run at 4.4GHz. Anyone have a problem like this? I'm going to try 4.7GHz with Cool&Quiet on now.*

.:edit:.

*Last edit. 4.7GHz on all 4-cores worked but didn't really provide a boost against 4.4GHz. Honestly it got ~1FPS less. I'm thinking it's because 4.4GHz had RAM/NB Frequency advantage over 4.7GHz.

On a sidenote something funky is happening. With CPU set to 37 (3.7GHz) and Core Performance set to 44 (4.4GHz) for some reason my computer boosts individual cores 1-4 to 4.7GHz for some reason. So in general it runs at 4.4GHz but boosts to 4.7GHz sometimes. Is this because I have Turbo Boost to auto? I mean I set the Core Performance Boost to 44. I don't mind if the PC boosts the CPU to 4.7GHz as long as it's stable and it doesn't crash.*


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Alright so something happened to my PC without me changing much. I did not update my BIOS and the only thing that changed was that I installed my R9 290 but small things changed on how my 860K or motherboard works. I think LLC is working differently again. Voltages seem different now too.

Here are my BIOS settings.

CPU Clock Control = 100MHz (Goes back and forth from 99-100)
CPU NorthBridge Frequency = 2200MHz

CPU Clock Ratio = 37 (3.7GHz)
Core Performance Boost = Auto
Turbo Performance Boost Ratio = Auto
Core Performance Boost Ratio = 44
AMD Cool&Quiet function = Enabled
cTDP function = Disabled
SVM Mode = Disabled
C6 = Enabled
CPU core Control = Automatic
APM = Enabled

System Memory Multiplier = 21.33
Timings (9-11-10-28)

CPU Vcore = +0.090V
NB Core = +0.186V
DRAM Voltage = 1.650V

Vcore Loadline Calibration = Auto
NBVID Loadline Calibration = Auto

Here what I am noticing that is different. F6 BIOS CPU VCore +0.090 = 1.389V and F7 BIOS CPU VCore +0.090 = 1.422V. Now VCore will go up to 1.512V-1.532V with what I believe was the same BIOS settings. Additionally Core Performance Boost Ratio at 44 would mean 4.4GHz max. I keep my CPU at 100% through Windows so 4.4GHz almost always is the norm. The weird thing is that the CPU will not boost up to 4.7GHz and the voltage would also boost up to 1.532V when all the cores are boosted to 4.7GHz. I'm not worried about killing the 860K because I have adequate cooling and I feel anything under 1.55V or a little over is fine but I'm just surprised by the sudden change. Good news is that I can now game with 4.7GHz, 2200MHz NB, 2133MHz RAM w/ low timings, good temps and without crashing.

If anyone has ideas feel free to leave your thoughts.

.:edit:.

Anyway with the 860K at 4.7GHz w/ R9 290 my FPS is from mid 30s to 60FPS (VSYNC ON) on AC: Unity. Generally the FPS I get on the ground is 44-45. Depending on the number of NPCs around it can be 48 to high 50s or low 40s to mid 30s when there are a little more people. This is only in the 1st chapter after you first become a grown up Arno. The settings I am using is 1080p, everything Max except shadow which is one setting lower and I don't use AA as I'm quite a bit away from the TV. Seems like the best budget CPU I bought.


----------



## HeadGear

All things equal, with overkill cooling, I saw a dramatic increase in performance between 3.7ghz and 4.5ghz in benches like cinebench. When I go to 4.7, I had the downclocking issue, where individual cores would flicker down to 1.7 during stress testing, even with substantial thermal margin. No amount of volts or varying settings would stop this from happening.

I have c&q, c6, and apm disabled, no turbo, just straight constant OC values.

My VRMs have copper heatsinks, my case has great airflow, and my PSU is definitely up to the task. I am thinking that the 4+2 phases in the f2a88xm-d3h might be the limiting factor, regardless of how well cooled.

That being said, I have pretty fantastic game performance with my R9 270, and am going to test out a second one in CF, though the 2.0 x4 second pic slot may be a limitation. If so, I will move to an atx case with a crossblade ranger and start over heh, and see if the superior power delivery helps with better consistent clocks. If the CF setup works reasonably well, I probably won't bother, tbh.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> All things equal, with overkill cooling, I saw a dramatic increase in performance between 3.7ghz and 4.5ghz in benches like cinebench. When I go to 4.7, I had the downclocking issue, where individual cores would flicker down to 1.7 during stress testing, even with substantial thermal margin. No amount of volts or varying settings would stop this from happening.
> 
> I have c&q, c6, and apm disabled, no turbo, just straight constant OC values.
> 
> My VRMs have copper heatsinks, my case has great airflow, and my PSU is definitely up to the task. I am thinking that the 4+2 phases in the f2a88xm-d3h might be the limiting factor, regardless of how well cooled.
> 
> That being said, I have pretty fantastic game performance with my R9 270, and am going to test out a second one in CF, though the 2.0 x4 second pic slot may be a limitation. If so, I will move to an atx case with a crossblade ranger and start over heh, and see if the superior power delivery helps with better consistent clocks. If the CF setup works reasonably well, I probably won't bother, tbh.


You should try the settings for my OC in the post above to see if you can achieve a stable 4.7GHz like I seem to have (on accident). I could only get 4.7GHz with 1.56V with 2000MHz NB and 1866MHz RAM with super loose timings. But currently I am getting 4.7GHz with 2200MHz NB, 2133MHz RAM with tight timings all on only 1.53V.

CPU Multiplier stays at 37. Core Clock Boost is set to 44. All power saving options are on. Leave Turbo Boost on auto same with the Core Performance Boost. You can stick with stock NB or try 2200MHz NB with +0.186V. Finally CPU VCore is set to +0.090V and CPU VCore LLC and NBLLC is both set to Auto. This basically has my CPU at 4.4GHz and boosts all cores up to 4.7GHz when I am playing games are 100% load is set to all cores. I'll probably put it back to stock clocks in a day or two when I switch out the H100i with the Hyper TX3 again.

.:edit:.

I'm also going to run Cinebench again at 4.7GHz to see what kind of numbers it gets before I sleep.

.:edit:.

*Forget trying my settings. I ran Cinebench and was surprised to see I got the same numbers as 3.7GHz, and same with the multithread benchmark. Then I checked my CPU on AMD Overdrive the "problem" where my CPU would boost to 4.7GHz is now gone. Not sure if I should be happy or sad.*


----------



## HeadGear

Yeah, 4.7 is stable, just underperforming, same issue, at 4.7 my scores and game performance was worse than 4.0. 4.5ghz is the highest clock that scaled and performed as expected.

Here's to hoping that x4 pci 2.0 slot chokes my second card, hah (but not really). Only going to upgrade my mobo if I need to for crossfire, but if I have to, I will definitely invest in a better board for OC.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Yeah, 4.7 is stable, just underperforming, same issue, at 4.7 my scores and game performance was worse than 4.0. 4.5ghz is the highest clock that scaled and performed as expected.
> 
> Here's to hoping that x4 pci 2.0 slot chokes my second card, hah (but not really). Only going to upgrade my mobo if I need to for crossfire, but if I have to, I will definitely invest in a better board for OC.


I agree. Only reason to upgrade a mobo now would be for crossfiring, and at that point you can look for one with good Power Phases and VRM cooling while you're at it.


----------



## damric

Sounds like that stupid cTDP throttling that's common to FM2+ motherboards.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Sounds like that stupid cTDP throttling that's common to FM2+ motherboards.


yawa was having that problem on his Extreme 6+ I think? I have not had that issue with the A88x-Pro that I can tell, and Flank3r definitely didn't have that problem with the Ranger.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

I know that I'm a filthy casual for using the stock fan (for now), but how much could i theoretically get out of this chip, OC wise, with it and not melt the CPU?


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Just an Update, currently stress testing 4.5ghz for daily use.
> 
> CPU Voltage set to +.240
> 4.5ghz/1.416v under load reported in CPUID, though up to 1.536 reported at idle.
> 2000mhz NB at +.120v
> Memory is at 1600, 9-9-9-24 1.5v
> 
> Using Small FFTs, at about 45min right now, temps have stabilized.
> Thermal Margin 25-30c
> Fluid Temps at 42c
> VRM heatsinks are hot to touch, definitely will need a spot fan on them in the near near future, but at least I know they are doing something!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> how much could i theoretically get out of this chip, OC wise, with it and not melt the CPU?
> 
> 
> 
> It can go as high as your cooling and motherboard will take it. With the stock cooler, that isn't going to be very far though.
Click to expand...


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> It can go as high as your cooling and motherboard will take it. With the stock cooler, that isn't going to be very far though.


Well that's what I'm wondering. How far is "not very far", heh. Can i just bump it up to 4.2 and call it a day without liquefying it?


----------



## nakano2k1

4.2 should be ok with the stock heatsink. Max temp for these chips is supposed to be 72. Use gigabyte easytune to monitor temps as it's REALLY accurate.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> 4.2 should be ok with the stock heatsink. Max temp for these chips is supposed to be 72. Use gigabyte easytune to monitor temps as it's REALLY accurate.


Thanks, I will look into it eventually.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> I know that I'm a filthy casual for using the stock fan (for now), but how much could i theoretically get out of this chip, OC wise, with it and not melt the CPU?


I can stress 4.2 all day and the temp barely moves, nor is the heat sink heating up much nor filling my case with hot air. I would just about say that no aftermarket heatsink is necessary for my 860K. It craps out well before it ever heats up.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I can stress 4.2 all day and the temp barely moves, nor is the heat sink heating up much nor filling my case with hot air. I would just about say that no aftermarket heatsink is necessary for my 860K. It craps out well before it ever heats up.


Yup seeing that I can get 4.2/4.3GHz with whatever stock vcore is it doesn't really heat much. The Hyper TX3 should be fine when I switch out the H100i. I bought mine OEM style so I didn't even get a stock heatsink.


----------



## jsc1973

Well, the 860K I bought on the New Year's Eve sale is out for delivery today. Looking forward to getting it and seeing what it can do. Once I've figured that out, I'll post some benchmarks comparing it to the 6800K running at 4.4.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Well, the 860K I bought on the New Year's Eve sale is out for delivery today. Looking forward to getting it and seeing what it can do. Once I've figured that out, I'll post some benchmarks comparing it to the 6800K running at 4.4.


Thanks for that catch again! Mine should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday







How do you like that motherboard? That's the only FM2+ ATX that catches my eye to be honest


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Thanks for that catch again! Mine should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you like that motherboard? That's the only FM2+ ATX that catches my eye to be honest


You're welcome. And the A88X-PRO is a great motherboard. I've said before that AMD needs to step up their game and produce a processor that's worthy of running in it.

If you want to really push a Richland or Kaveri chip, either the A88X-PRO or the Crossblade Ranger will do the trick. The Ranger is a ROG board with a ROG price, but it does have some extra bells and whistles. Both of them are 6+2 boards, so you won't have to worry about blowing anything up, and that's the most important thing.

The 860K arrived a few minutes after I got home today. I unhooked everything, unbolted the Megahalems and swapped out the CPU's this evening. When I rebooted, Windows had set all of my graphic settings back to defaults, and I had to set them back and reboot after the OS detected the new CPU and all of the core logic on it. After a reboot, everything was good to go.

The only thing I've run so far is a run of 3DMark11, but it's a clear win for the Kaveri, even at stock. The 6800K Richland, running at 4.4 GHz, scored 4841 on this machine. The Kaveri, running at a stock 3.7, hit 4965. The Steamroller core, even at a 16 percent clock disadvantage, beat the Piledriver core by 2.6 percent. Here are the screenshots:




More to come later, but I didn't expect that result. I thought I'd need at least 4 GHz just for the 860K to tie.

Update...and now I know why.

I ran the test again at 4 GHz, and while the Physics score jumped from 3998 to 4227, the Graphics score was basically the same, actually dropping from 5483 to 5471. Overall score was 5060. The 6970 is maxed out. Makes me wish I had a 7970 or even a 280X around here right now to test with and see what the limits would be.


----------



## jsc1973

When I ran the current 3DMark with the Kaveri at stock compared to Richland at 4.4, the 6800K won, barely, but the results aren't that meaningful. I also included the results from back in October, when I ran the 6800K at stock in Hybrid Crssfire mode with a 6670. Note to anyone considering doing that--don't bother. Hybrid Crossfire sucks.

*Cloud Gate*
860K+6970, stock: 10360
6800K+6970, 4.4: 10800
6800K+6970, stock: 10667
6800K+6670, CF: 6081

*Sky Diver*
860K+6970, stock: 10171
6800K+6970, 4.4: 10279
6800K+6970, stock: 10167
6800K+6670, CF: 3974

*Fire Strike*
860K+6970, stock: 3189
6800K+6970, 4.4: 3202
6800K+6970, stock: 3184
6800K+6670, CF: 644

*Ice Storm*
860K+6970, stock: 78620
6800K+6970, 4.4: 81010
6800K+6970, stock: 79465
6800K+6670, CF: 56079

Here's the screenshot from the run with the Kaveri installed:



The Fire Strike test is clearly GPU-limited. It's running as fast as the 6970 can go, period, and Cloud Gate and Sky Diver aren't much different. The Ice Storm test, which is using less complex graphics, seems to like clockspeed, although with scores like that it hardly matters. Even the crappy Hybrid Crossfire setup kicks butt on that one.

When I overclock the 860K, I'll run this again, but I don't anticipate much difference. The only surprise here is that the 6970, which still offers decent mid-range performance even today, gets maxed out on these tests. I don't think the current 3DMark is all that useful for anything except the latest and greatest hardware.


----------



## jsc1973

Went ahead and ran the Passmark CPU tests on the 860K at stock. This test maxes out all of the cores on AMD processors and therefore shows them at their best, and also is helpful in comparing two generations of CPU:

Passmark 6800K at 4.4 GHz

CPU Mark 5100
Integer 12945
FP Math 4692
Prime 10.2
SSE 18.9
Compression 7647
Encryption 958
Physics 246.5
Sorting 4499
Single Thread 1630

Passmark 860K at 3.7 GHz

CPU Mark 5993
Integer 11429
FP Math 4466
Prime 13.9
SSE 153.1
Compression 7654
Encryption 924
Physics 266.2
Sorting 4375
Single Thread 1698

The CPU Mark--the overall performance score, is significantly higher for the Kaveri, despite its 16 percent clockspeed deficit, and it also loses in basic integer and FP ops, but it kills the Richland in the Prime and SSE tests, wins by 8 percent in the Physics test, and wins in single-thread performance by 4.2 percent despite the lower clock. It looks like to me that AMD has made an honest effort to correct that failing of the K15h microarchitecture. AMD's focus on Steamroller was clearly on improving the K15h's performance in advanced FP ops and in its single-thread performance.

Couple more observations:

* My Windows Experience Index CPU score increased from 7.3 to 7.4 even with the 860K running at stock speeds, not that it means anything.
* Running the AMD Overdrive Stability Test right now, about 17 minutes into it. The CPU seems to turbo up to a max of 3.9 GHz, and the cores jump between 3.7, 3.8 and 3.9 constantly. Thermal Margin is registering between 33-34C. HWMonitor doesn't seem to be able to read this CPU; it's giving me a Package temperature of 85C, which if true, means I'd have fried the chip long ago. In any case, I can already tell this chip does run hotter than the Richland did, but it's dealing with a full load even though the TIM (my usual AS Ceramique 2) hasn't had time to set yet.

Update...just ran the Passmark again at 4 GHz:

Passmark 860K at 4 GHz

CPU Mark 6212
Integer 11845
FP Math 4626
Prime 14.8
SSE 156.5
Compression 7805
Encryption 951
Physics 280.5
Sorting 4516
Single Thread 1716

Didn't scale as well as I'd hoped, but a definite gain, and a clear-cut win for the 860K at 4.0 over the 6800K clocked 10 percent higher.


----------



## jsc1973

And something I don't like seeing. The chip is throttling down as low as 3.5 GHz at times under IBT even though there's still a massive thermal margin, something Kaveri chips are notorious for. I'll probably need to adjust some BIOS settings to try to stop that behavior:



On the good side of things, I just stepped up the frequency to 4 GHz, and it seems completely stable at that speed at stock voltage. I changed the frequency from Auto to 40 in the BIOS and turned off CPB (Turbo), and it now runs as a 4 GHz CPU under load. Will update later.

Update: Setting the multiplier to 40 and turning off Turbo in the BIOS seems to have done the trick. A second run of IBT ran from start to finish at 4000 MHz.


----------



## PhRe4k

Wow awesome results, glad to see AMD is improving







Thanks for taking the time to run those benchmarks, the wait for my 860K is getting harder lol


----------



## kzone75

My Passmark at 4.4GHz

CPU Mark 6847
Integer 13210
FP Math 5132
Prime 15.3
SSE 177.3
Compression 8819
Encryption 1062
Physics 310.2
Sorting 4986
Single Thread 1925

Edit: 4.5 GHz

CPU Mark 6958
Integer 13382
FP Math 5193
Prime 15.7
SSE 180.0
Compression 8905
Encryption 1074
Physics 316.3
Sorting 5041
Single Thread 1961


----------



## HeadGear

I should have my CrossBlade Thursday, rebuild complete by Friday or Saturday, will run some benches then, see how the 860k fares in the new build. Still limited to 1866 ram, haven't been able to get it stable any higher on this F2A88XM-D3H, but maybe better results in the CBR, on that front.


----------



## jsc1973

Here's another win for Kaveri. Cinebench 11.5 at 4 GHz on the 860K in a virtual tie with the 6800K running at 4.5:


----------



## Crimson Mutt

If the CPU is not passing POST, will it still display something? I'm getting no video output from my 280x, but the fans are spinning in some sort of pattern like it's restarting them every 5 seconds.

I need to know if I've fried my MOBO somehow or is it just the 860k not passing POST (needing a bios flash), since I'm getting nothing from any of the DVI or DSub ports on my PC.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> If the CPU is not passing POST, will it still display something? I'm getting no video output from my 280x, but the fans are spinning in some sort of pattern like it's restarting them every 5 seconds.
> 
> I need to know if I've fried my MOBO somehow or is it just the 860k not passing POST (needing a bios flash), since I'm getting nothing from any of the DVI or DSub ports on my PC.


First time starting up with the 860K?

Edit; Does your mobo have dual bios switch? Maybe it was accidentally moved?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Here's another win for Kaveri. Cinebench 11.5 at 4 GHz on the 860K in a virtual tie with the 6800K running at 4.5:


I'm thinking your score may be low thanks to memory (assuming that score was produced at DDR3-1866?). Tighter timings might help there.

But it looks like you're getting .9325 points-per-ghz of core clockspeed, whereas others have gotten ~.95 points-per-ghz.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> If the CPU is not passing POST, will it still display something? I'm getting no video output from my 280x, but the fans are spinning in some sort of pattern like it's restarting them every 5 seconds.
> 
> I need to know if I've fried my MOBO somehow or is it just the 860k not passing POST (needing a bios flash), since I'm getting nothing from any of the DVI or DSub ports on my PC.


I can't quite remember. I understand no video is coming out of the 280x which is weird but video should not come out of the video output on the motherboard because the 860K has no IGP and there is no IGP built into the motherboard. What motherboard did you buy again? You might need a BIOS update.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> If the CPU is not passing POST, will it still display something? I'm getting no video output from my 280x, but the fans are spinning in some sort of pattern like it's restarting them every 5 seconds.
> 
> I need to know if I've fried my MOBO somehow or is it just the 860k not passing POST (needing a bios flash), since I'm getting nothing from any of the DVI or DSub ports on my PC.


That's what happened to everyone else that needed to update BIOS.


----------



## damric

@JSC1973 thanks for the benches. For the 3dmarks, really only the physics is relevant. Can you not clock higher on either your 6800K or 860K?

Here's some of my comparisons:

*CB 11.5 760K: 4.00/1.24*


*CB 11.5 860K: 4.09/1.09*


*CB R15 760K 350/105*


*CB R15 860K 356/101*


*3D11 Physics 760K: 4612*


*3D11 Physics 860K: 4464*


*Fire Strike Physics 760K: 5232*


*Fire Strike Physics 860K: 5111*


*Sky Diver Physics 760K: 5477*


*Sky Diver Physics 860K: 5497*


*AIDA Cache/Memeory 760K:*


*AIDA Cache/Memory 860K:* Ouch latency sucks


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> @JSC1973 thanks for the benches. For the 3dmarks, really only the physics is relevant. Can you not clock higher on either your 6800K or 860K?
> 
> Here's some of my comparisons:
> 
> *CB 11.5 760K: 4.00/1.24*
> 
> 
> *CB 11.5 860K: 4.09/1.09*
> 
> 
> *CB R15 760K 350/105*
> 
> 
> *CB R15 860K 356/101*
> 
> 
> *3D11 Physics 760K: 4612*
> 
> 
> *3D11 Physics 860K: 4464*
> 
> 
> *Fire Strike Physics 760K: 5232*
> 
> 
> *Fire Strike Physics 860K: 5111*
> 
> 
> *Sky Diver Physics 760K: 5477*
> 
> 
> *Sky Diver Physics 860K: 5497*
> 
> 
> *AIDA Cache/Memeory 760K:*
> 
> 
> *AIDA Cache/Memory 860K:* Ouch latency sucks


That pretty much looks like a dead heat.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> First time starting up with the 860K?
> 
> Edit; Does your mobo have dual bios switch? Maybe it was accidentally moved?


Yeah first time.
F2A88XM D3H
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That's what happened to everyone else that needed to update BIOS.


Oh good, i was scared out of my mind for a while there.

I'll just take it to a servicer in the morning, do the flash, assuming he has a FM2 chip which he should and give him 5$ for 5 minutes of labor. I cant be arsed getting another chip for 20$ which i'll only use once.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> That pretty much looks like a dead heat.


Yeah pretty much. I had a Z97 mobo fall into my lap last week so I will be running some comparisons with my i3 and also a Pentium 3258 when I get around to putting it together.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Yeah pretty much. I had a Z97 mobo fall into my lap last week so I will be running some comparisons with my i3 and also a Pentium 3258 when I get around to putting it together.


I was going to buy an 860K to put in a Asus A88X-PRO that my son uses with a A10-5800K at 4.6 GHz. Seems like it would be pretty much the same performance wise. I still may do it just for fun.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I'm thinking your score may be low thanks to memory (assuming that score was produced at DDR3-1866?). Tighter timings might help there.
> 
> But it looks like you're getting .9325 points-per-ghz of core clockspeed, whereas others have gotten ~.95 points-per-ghz.


The testing with the 6400K, 6800K and 860K was done at DDR3-1600. The older benchmarks were done on different RAM. The FX-8350 was running on ordinary DDR3-1333, and the Phenom II was benched with the RAM running at approximately 1640.

The scores were more for reference than performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> @JSC1973 thanks for the benches. For the 3dmarks, really only the physics is relevant. Can you not clock higher on either your 6800K or 860K?


The 6800K had problems going above 4.5. You could run stock and undervolt and it would run fine, and I usually ran it at 4.4 with 1.33v. I booted into Windows at 4.7 with it, but it took 1.5v and ran hot. I suspect it could have done better if I'd tinkered some more, but didn't need the extra 300 MHz anyway, so I let it do what it wanted.

I only got the 860K yesterday afternoon, and I ran benches at stock and then at 4 GHz before bed. I'm going to try higher settings later on.

Edit: Bumped to 4.1 tonight, still at stock voltage. Surprisingly, 100 percent prime stable at 4.1 on stock voltage, with no throttling once I turned off turbo.


----------



## kzone75

*Cinebench 15*



*SkyDiver*

(Don't know what the "time measurement data not available" thingy is..)



*FireStrike*



*3D11*


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Literally no repair shop within 10 miles has an FM2 processor i can use. I had to drop another 30$ on a cheapo FM2 APU (A4 4020) just to flash the bios for 5 minutes ._,

Just waiting for Win8 to flash to USB so i can install it and I'm good to go.

On the upside, I can at least build a mini-ITX media center from it for my dad as a late Christmas gift, i guess.


----------



## Rabit

Hm... this 760k looks poor my 740 have similar results








Difference by few + - % but I have locked CPU








http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/athlon_x4_740/
All test submitted by DeathRabit are from me Red White Flag








Anyway one lucky guy manage to push X4 740 above 5Ghz this is crazy








Physic results
3DMark Vantage 12013
3DMark11 - Entry score 4802
3DMark - Cloud Gate 3552
3DMark - Ice Storm 43572
3DMark - Sky Diver 5773 * This my latest update after adding heatsiknks on mobo power section and decrease Vcore to 1.45 before 1.535 was lowest stable Vcore but heatsinks keep good work on very hot power section








3DMark - Fire Strike 4966
Catzilla - 720p 208

CPU dedicated tests:
HWBOT Prime 4556.37
Cinebench R11.5 3.81
Cinebench R15 351
FryBench 10min 10sec
Multi Threaded PI 23sec 547ms
Multi Threaded LINPACK 23sec 547ms
3DPM-ST 79.63 Points
3DPM-MT 221.47 Points
Black Hole Benchmark 9528 marks
wPrime - 32m 14sec 960ms
wPrime - 1024m 7min 49sec 374ms
SuperPi - 32M 20min 49sec 734ms
Realbench V2 40938 points
Geekbench3 - Single Core 2436


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Literally no repair shop within 10 miles has an FM2 processor i can use. I had to drop another 30$ on a cheapo FM2 APU (A4 4020) just to flash the bios for 5 minutes ._,
> 
> Just waiting for Win8 to flash to USB so i can install it and I'm good to go.
> 
> On the upside, I can at least build a mini-ITX media center from it for my dad as a late Christmas gift, i guess.


I wonder if Tigerdirect will be able to flash the BIOS in case I run into this? Without charging a ridiculous amount of money anyway


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I wonder if *Tigerdirect* will be able to flash the BIOS in case I run into this? Without charging a ridiculous amount of money anyway


No idea what that even is. I'm guessing a repair shop. Croat here.

I don't know, but it was a simple 10-15 minute job so it couldn't be that expensive


----------



## jsc1973

Passed Prime at 4.1 GHz at stock voltage (1.38v), now testing at 4.2. Thermal margin still way over 30C after running Prime for hours, although I'm sure a great deal of the credit for that goes to the Megahalems and its two EFX12-15 76 CFM fans.

I'm going to see how far this chip will go without changing anything but the multiplier, and then see how far it will go when I do. This is a fairly recent 860K (week 37 of 2014--Sept. 8-14), so I'm hopeful that it will outperform some of the older ones that were reported on.

Update: It committed digital hara-kiri out of nowhere after about 45 minutes of P95 at 4.3 GHz. Had been perfectly stable on all four cores, and then boom--BSOD. So somewhere between 4.2 and 4.3 is the max on stock voltage. Now trying to OC it to the max. Running 4.5 at a setting of 1.45v that seems to be actually running at 1.43-1.44 in CPU-Z. So far, so good....

Until it crashed. Trying 4.4 GHz at 1.456v under P95 now. This chip seems to have hit a wall in a hurry. I _think_ this setting will be stable, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> No idea what that even is. I'm guessing a repair shop. Croat here.
> 
> I don't know, but it was a simple 10-15 minute job so it couldn't be that expensive


Tiger Direct is a U.S. based computer retailer, operating both online and with brick and mortar stores. I got my 860K from them via Amazon, and they have a store 15 miles up the road from my home. I don't think they've expanded to Croatia yet, unfortunately.









They generally can do a BIOS flash for you, but you might need to call ahead and ask. I haven't had to have them do anything like that in a long time.

People should really be a little peeved at AMD about this whole situation with the BIOS not recognizing the 860K. I suspect that AMD didn't tell motherboard manufacturers about the 860K because they wanted to sell as many 7850K chips as they could before they offered the cheaper Athlon version that we were all wanting. If they had told them about the upcoming 860K as the same time as the 7850K, then someone who disassembled the BIOS would have seen the code for it and esome people who bought a 7850K would have waited for the 860K.

AMD knew they were going to eventually sell a Kaveri-based Athlon, and they should have made sure that anyone who bought one was supported out of the box, even if it meant letting a cat out of the bag that we already knew had to be in the bag.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> No idea what that even is. I'm guessing a repair shop. Croat here.
> 
> I don't know, but it was a simple 10-15 minute job so it couldn't be that expensive


Ahh yeah it's a shop that also sells pc hardware and does pc maintenance. If I had a spare fm2 cpu it wouldn't be a big deal. If it's cheaper to get a cheap cpu I may do that anyway









Edit-
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> They generally can do a BIOS flash for you, but you might need to call ahead and ask. I haven't had to have them do anything like that in a long time.
> .


I'll be picking up an Asus A88X Pro there, I'll ask if they can do a BIOS flash and maybe just save myself the hassle


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> People should really be a little peeved at AMD about this whole situation with the BIOS not recognizing the 860K. I suspect that AMD didn't tell motherboard manufacturers about the 860K because they wanted to sell as many 7850K chips as they could before they offered the cheaper Athlon version that we were all wanting. If they had told them about the upcoming 860K as the same time as the 7850K, then someone who disassembled the BIOS would have seen the code for it and esome people who bought a 7850K would have waited for the 860K.
> 
> AMD knew they were going to eventually sell a Kaveri-based Athlon, and they should have made sure that anyone who bought one was supported out of the box, even if it meant letting a cat out of the bag that we already knew had to be in the bag.


I don't know about that. This happens with other AMD sockets and maybe Intel too. The 7850K came out in Jan 14 while the 860K around Aug 14. Most A88X motherboards were out before the 7850K was released from my memory. So they all needed BIOS updates for the Kaveri APUs. AMD or OEMs technically could have made the 860K compatible with the BIOS updates for other Kaveri APUs but that would have meant a leak that the 860K would be released before AMD even let it out through the news.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> I don't know about that. This happens with other AMD sockets and maybe Intel too. The 7850K came out in Jan 14 while the 860K around Aug 14. Most A88X motherboards were out before the 7850K was released from my memory. So they all needed BIOS updates for the Kaveri APUs. AMD or OEMs technically could have made the 860K compatible with the BIOS updates for other Kaveri APUs but that would have meant a leak that the 860K would be released before AMD even let it out through the news.


That's my point. AMD didn't want anyone to know for sure that the 860K was coming until they had sold all of the 7850K's that they could. If they had made an entry for the 860K in the original BIOS revisions that supported Kaveri, it would have been de facto confirmation of its existence and pending arrival. But we all knew it was coming, anyway. AMD wasn't about to toss out perfectly functional 7850K CPU dies that just happened to have bad GPU's. If AMD makes a desktop version of Carrizo, and I hope they do, then we'll eventually see an Athlon 960K based on it.

The fact it only showed up seven months after the 7850K was solely due to a decision of AMD's. Making an 860K is no harder than any other CPU. AMD can make a batch of FX-4300's anytime they want to just by taking a bunch of 8350's and disabling half of it; making an 860K is simply taking a batch of 7850K's and disabling their GPU. I know they wait awhile on releasing APU-based Athlons so they can use harvested parts that are otherwise OK but have bad GPU sections, but it's always well known that they disable a lot of fully-functional parts to sell them at a lower price point; they have to, because they're aren't enough suitable bum parts to harvest and still meet demand. AMD and Intel have both done this for years.

I've never heard of this problem happening on Intel. Intel motherboards can generally at least get you into the BIOS even on an unrecognized CPU.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've never heard of this problem happening on Intel. Intel motherboards can generally at least get you into the BIOS even on an unrecognized CPU.


I believe it use to be the same with AM2/AM2+. Not sure about AM3. Even with OEM boards from the many Dell, HP/Compaq, EMachine, etc I had back then I could plop in various different CPUs that came out way later without needing/looking for a BIOS update. It's a pain when you get everything and realize you need a BIOS update.


----------



## damric

On that note, did anyne else notice that some software programs are recognizing the _disabled_ iGPU as running at 720MHz?

Makes me wonder if it can be unlocked. Not that it would be useful, but I am all about unlocking things that AMD locks


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I was going to buy an 860K to put in a Asus A88X-PRO that my son uses with a A10-5800K at 4.6 GHz. Seems like it would be pretty much the same performance wise. I still may do it just for fun.


4.6 on a 5800K? I can barely reach a stable-ish 4.3 with mine.


----------



## jsc1973

Just the old silicon lottery at work there. A stable 4.6 OC on a Trinity is doing very well indeed, but there were some that could do it.


----------



## HeadGear

New build day tomorrow!

Fractal Define R4 Pearl Black
CrossBlade Ranger
Second R9 270 - CLUB3D '14 Series
Super overkill Silverstone Strider 1500w modular (barter deal, essentially free)
A new 860k, hopefully a better draw in the silicon lottery.

A good friend gave me a budget to build him a gaming PC, so offered him a discount on some of my current parts, to upgrade mine, heh.

Essentially free for the most part, except the second GPU. I hope this 860k clocks better!


----------



## jsc1973

Well, I think I've found the limits of this 860K. It can make it to 4.5 GHz and passed several hours of P95 at that level, but needs a vcore setting of 1.475 on 100 percent LLC that comes out to about 1.525 in actual use. This chip hits the wall in a hurry. It's stable at 4.2 at stock voltage and ran Prime for 45 minutes at 4.3 on stock voltage, but needs about 1.45 to hit 4.4 and about 1.53 for 4.5, at which setting it starts to get pretty toasty. The old 6800K could hit 4.4 at stock voltage and then tanked quickly. This is still a better chip, because even 4.3 on the 860K is faster than anything that 6800K was able to do.

I'll probably settle on running it at 4.4. That extra 100 MHz isn't worth running that close to its thermal limits and having to run a vcore that will just degrade the chip. Even at 4.4, it has a better single-core rating than my old 8350 did at 4.85 GHz.


----------



## damric

Cold weather got me a few more MHz!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Well, I think I've found the limits of this 860K. It can make it to 4.5 GHz and passed several hours of P95 at that level, but needs a vcore setting of 1.475 on 100 percent LLC that comes out to about 1.525 in actual use. This chip hits the wall in a hurry. It's stable at 4.2 at stock voltage and ran Prime for 45 minutes at 4.3 on stock voltage, but needs about 1.45 to hit 4.4 and about 1.53 for 4.5, at which setting it starts to get pretty toasty. The old 6800K could hit 4.4 at stock voltage and then tanked quickly. This is still a better chip, because even 4.3 on the 860K is faster than anything that 6800K was able to do.
> 
> I'll probably settle on running it at 4.4. That extra 100 MHz isn't worth running that close to its thermal limits and having to run a vcore that will just degrade the chip. Even at 4.4, it has a better single-core rating than my old 8350 did at 4.85 GHz.


Interesting that your CPU runs so hot. I can't make mine run hot. Maybe your TIM under the lid is bad or yours is just a real leaky stinker of a chip.

Anyways I've been benching 4.5GHz 1.52v since last night, taking advantage of some abmormally rare cold weather here on the Gulf Coast.

The benches are looking at lot better at 4.5GHz:

*CB11.5: 4.26/1.13*


*CBR15: 377/107*


*3D11 Physics: 4593*


*Fire Strike Physics: 5287*


*BHB: 10572*


----------



## chrisjames61

I could only get about 4.3 GHz in my ASrock Extreme 6 without throttling. The chip does does 4.6 GHz in both my Crossblade Ranger and Asus A88X-PRO. After using pretty much all Gigabyte boards for a couple years I have found Asus more to my liking. That includes AM3+ boards too.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok ,i ve done some research on mine.
> The board i am using is limited as there are no voltage controls for CPU/CPU-NB.
> I have measured the voltages directly to the board as in the picture.
> 
> CPU-Z shows voltages lower with 0,03V
> HW Info shows Vin5 as NB voltage and Vcore field picks the maximum voltage as the real one.
> T1 field in HW Info seems to show the real temperature as compared to the sensor called finger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Hits 62 temperatures here.In the CPU0 field show a little more.
> 
> The board is ok at 4200Mhz ,i will do more testing but i am limited by the cooler no doubt.Nice to see the board adjusting itself automatically.The higher the stress more voltage it pushes.The voltages in the picture are taken at Intel Burn test load.When 3DMark11BE Demo is run the voltages go a little higher ,at 4,2Ghz it did 1,44V on the CPU VRM outputs.Phase 1 seems to always be a little higher than the other phases.
> 
> The board is not bad having in mind the VRM temperatures are similar to the CPU heat-sink.To bad there are no CPU voltage manual settings in spite of the nice blue heatsink.


MSI has released some new BIOS-es for my cheap board ,installed 17.9.
The latest BIOS fixes a strange RTC clock issue when running 3DMark11 steam demo under Windows 7.The results would not be considered valid and indeed the scores were much higher on the demo under Windows 7 than under 8.1.Now on both OS-s says CPU not recognized







The score is still bigger on W7 though.

After the BIOS update the Voltages measured at VRM were much lower for the CPU feeding and a little higher for the NB.
CPU VRM has at 4,2Ghz a peak of maximum 1,385 V and at 4,1Ghz 1,375 Volts.
At NB i can read now 1,122 V instead of 1,104V.
Logically the temperatures and the noise of the fan decreased.
I use it at 4,1Ghz at this moment with 2Ghz NB as it gives the best balance around temps noise and performance.Also leaves BF 4 almost with no crashes compared to 4,2Ghz.
Once you pass 4Ghz it s ok performance wise in BF3 and BF 4 ,at least for me.
Shame for MSI not allowing Voltage settings for this board.









I don t understand what s with the 1,5 Voltages for 4,3Ghz as most probable this is the throttling issue.
I would really measure the voltages at the VRM output stage.

LE: CPU-Z is now much closer to the real values ,half of what it was with 17.6.MSI engineers might be reading this thread lol.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Cold weather got me a few more MHz!
> Interesting that your CPU runs so hot. I can't make mine run hot. Maybe your TIM under the lid is bad or yours is just a real leaky stinker of a chip.


I've drawn bad in the silicon lottery on the last few chips I've bought for myself. I had a 6400K that had a bad L2 cache and had to be sent back to AMD, then a 6800K that needed crazy volts to get past about 4.4, and now this 860K that's almost stable (it takes P95 to bring it down, passes anything else) at 4.3 using 1.375v but can barely do 4.5 at 1.53 while shedding off heat like crazy.

The last good chip I had for my own use was my old FX-8350. Luck changes, though. Maybe late this year, a Carrizo 960K shows up and I get a golden one. I've had my share of good ones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I could only get about 4.3 GHz in my ASrock Extreme 6 without throttling. The chip does does 4.6 GHz in both my Crossblade Ranger and Asus A88X-PRO. After using pretty much all Gigabyte boards for a couple years I have found Asus more to my liking. That includes AM3+ boards too.


I think that if you want to overclock FM2+ chips, one of those two is the one to have. I hate to think what this 860K would have done to a cheap FM2+ board if I had tried 4.5 GHz at 1.53v on it.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've drawn bad in the silicon lottery on the last few chips I've bought for myself. I had a 6400K that had a bad L2 cache and had to be sent back to AMD, then a 6800K that needed crazy volts to get past about 4.4, and now this 860K that's almost stable (it takes P95 to bring it down, passes anything else) at 4.3 using 1.375v but can barely do 4.5 at 1.53 while shedding off heat like crazy.
> 
> The last good chip I had for my own use was my old FX-8350. Luck changes, though. Maybe late this year, a Carrizo 960K shows up and I get a golden one. I've had my share of good ones.
> I think that if you want to overclock FM2+ chips, one of those two is the one to have. I hate to think what this 860K would have done to a cheap FM2+ board if I had tried 4.5 GHz at 1.53v on it.


Yeah, thats a pretty rough run, heh. I was able to daily 4.5 on my first chip with only 1.4v, but most anything past that was throttling regardless of temp. Rolling the dice with 2 chips on my XBR, hoping one of them is decent, since one is heading into a pedestrian existence checking email and playing netflix, I'll double my odds of getting a decent clocker!

Really looking forward to playing with this XBR, the D3H matx was good for what it was, but i don't mind upsizing my tower, since the x4 PCI 2.0 slot made crossfire pretty useless on the D3H, and the fractal Define r4 is pretty beautiful.



Installing windows right now, hoping to get some OC/bench time in over the weekend, will update as I can.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've drawn bad in the silicon lottery on the last few chips I've bought for myself. I had a 6400K that had a bad L2 cache and had to be sent back to AMD, then a 6800K that needed crazy volts to get past about 4.4, and now this 860K that's almost stable (it takes P95 to bring it down, passes anything else) at 4.3 using 1.375v but can barely do 4.5 at 1.53 while shedding off heat like crazy.
> 
> The last good chip I had for my own use was my old FX-8350. Luck changes, though. Maybe late this year, a Carrizo 960K shows up and I get a golden one. I've had my share of good ones.
> I think that if you want to overclock FM2+ chips, one of those two is the one to have. I hate to think what this 860K would have done to a cheap FM2+ board if I had tried 4.5 GHz at 1.53v on it.


Sadly, the only descent clocker CPU I had in recent memory was an FX-4100 that could do 5GHz and 3GHz NB and DDR3-2000CL8, but needed high voltage to hold it stable so it ran really hot. Every other AMD CPU I've had can barely do 10% or so OC on air...

I had to up voltage a bit now on this 860K, but it's holding stable so far at 4.5GHz. Running 1.54v (after Vdroop, per CPU-Z), and that would probably scare a lot of people, but I remember having to juice my Thuban to 1.65 to stabilize 4GHz, and my friend who bought it folded on it like that for about a year.


----------



## PhRe4k

Finally! Although I'm still waiting for my RAM to come in from RMA. And hopefully I don't need to update the BIOS, TigerDirect charges 30 bucks sadly


----------



## Goldn3agle

I've got my 860k running at 4.2GHz at 1.35V (1.45V 100%) and it seems stable so far, I've not run any benchmarks yet, as I haven't had time.
My new Extreme6+ wont set a NB OC or NB LLC either (so I've got two Extreme6+s now, I just couldn't let it go







) its probably just a BIOS thing, I know ASRock are still working on the BIOS.

Regardless I'm happy with my 860K, does what I need for gaming and some video editing.


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Well I got mine up and running for a few days now. It's running quite well on stock speeds and perfectly good at any task i throw at it.
With a 280x, Skyrim on ultra + 88 mods chugs a bit and stays around the 40 fps range, but you get what you pay for, i guess.
League on ultra is easily capped off at 60 with no dips at all.
Running a 1080p vid with SVP with moderately high settings barely dents it.

The stock cooler is a bit loud though. I might look into a replacement sooner than i thought because of it.

I'll run some benches later today.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Oh yea the stock cooler that come with APUs are louder than I thought. I never used mine because I had the beefier AM2+/AM3/AM3+ stock heatsink and Hyper TX3 laying around but I recently used one of the APU heatsinks on an AM2+ build as the PC to work with the church protector in the Youth Group room. My brother said everyone freaked out when the fan went off really loud during the middle of a prayer. Glad it's working great for you


----------



## Crimson Mutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Oh yea the stock cooler that come with APUs are louder than I thought. I never used mine because I had the beefier AM2+/AM3/AM3+ stock heatsink and Hyper TX3 laying around but I recently used one of the APU heatsinks on an AM2+ build as the PC to work with the church protector in the Youth Group room. My brother said everyone freaked out when the fan went off really loud during the middle of a prayer. Glad it's working great for you


Hell it woke me up once. Put the pc to sleep and i guess a fly buzzed by or something, causing it to wake. Scared the bejesus out of me, especially seeing as how the twin monitors are pointed straight at my bed.









I'll probably get one sooner rather than later, but no idea what to get.
What's a good budget cooler?

Here's what's on offer here: http://www.nabava.net/hladnjaci-za-komponente__470?&se=478000
Ignore the 60kn noctua since it's a mislabel, it's actually a Noctua NM-L2011 mounting kit.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crimson Mutt*
> 
> Hell it woke me up once. Put the pc to sleep and i guess a fly buzzed by or something, causing it to wake. Scared the bejesus out of me, especially seeing as how the twin monitors are pointed straight at my bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably get one sooner rather than later, but no idea what to get.
> What's a good budget cooler?
> 
> Here's what's on offer here: http://www.nabava.net/hladnjaci-za-komponente__470?&se=478000
> Ignore the 60kn noctua since it's a mislabel, it's actually a Noctua NM-L2011 mounting kit.


Any of the 120mm fan tower style coolers with heat pipes.


----------



## Rabit

hm.... how about chose cheapest possibly solution AMD Stock cooler from FX 8320 or other 8x cores from AMD ?
Many people after buying FX 8.... cpu very fast swap for better coolers.
They can handle over-clocked 860K without off problems and they are very cheap








Try fing on local ebay or similar site








Or try find old cooler from 939/AM2/AM3 they are compatible with FM2.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> hm.... how about chose cheapest possibly solution AMD Stock cooler from FX 8320 or other 8x cores from AMD ?
> Many people after buying FX 8.... cpu very fast swap for better coolers.
> They can handle over-clocked 860K without off problems and they are very cheap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try fing on local ebay or similar site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or try find old cooler from 939/AM2/AM3 they are compatible with FM2.


Get one from x4 or x6 cpus instead of the fx ones. The ones that comes with a fx are crazy small compare to the x4 x6... I was surprise to see the one that came with my 8370e no heat pipes or anything..... Does anyone know if it even keeps the fx in decent temps at stock? lol


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gordesky1*
> 
> Get one from x4 or x6 cpus instead of the fx ones. The ones that comes with a fx are crazy small compare to the x4 x6... I was surprise to see the one that came with my 8370e no heat pipes or anything..... Does anyone know if it even keeps the fx in decent temps at stock? lol


What matters is the TDP.

The 125W ones come with heat pipes.

You get the bad ones with the 95W and 100W processors and anything less.

Being an "E", yours is fine if you run it at stock with all power saving options enabled.


----------



## Rabit




----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> What matters is the TDP.
> 
> The 125W ones come with heat pipes.
> 
> You get the bad ones with the 95W and 100W processors and anything less.
> 
> Being an "E", yours is fine if you run it at stock with all power saving options enabled.


Wow didn't know all the low watt cpus come with these low end heat sinks.

I still think they should of at least added the 125watt ones for these cpus, Cause last i herd these cpus can go in the 70s at load on the stock cooler at stock which last i herd not good to go over 70c.

When i get some spare time i might try the stock one on mine and post the results. Im really curious about it.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*


Yep that's the one to get if you can get one cheaper than aftermarket sometimes i see those going for 25 to 40$... But yea for a stock heat sink they good i already overclocked my 1100t x6 at one time with one to 4ghz and load was in the low 60s which is high but for being a stock cooler that's good considering my h100 was around 55c lol

edit ... forgot to use muti quote keep forgetting..


----------



## Rabit

Example from Poland http://allegro.pl/amd-cooler-od-fx-8320-malo-uzywany-i4976192944.html 24PLN = bellow 7$








Seller probably can send to entire EU.


----------



## PhRe4k

I don't know if other mobo manufacturers come with a similar feature, but some Asus boards come with something called Asus Bios Flashback. In short it allows you to update the bios without having a cpu, ram, video card, etc. Just hook up the mobo to the psu, stick a flash drive with a different bios into a specific USB port on the back and viola. When my memory comes back from RMA I will see if it worked


----------



## HeadGear

So initial results from the Crossblade Ranger are very promising. I have only just started trying out some clocks and stress testing, and am enjoying some extra stability and consistency with the XBR as directly compared to the mATX D3H.

Currently testing 4.6ghz for stability, but have already been able to run some basic benches that were crushing the 860k on the scaling front.

Cinebench, 3dmark, and Unigine have all see improvements over 4.5, something that wasn't happening on the D3H due to freq fluctuations on the older board. The volts are solid, so are the frequencies, and even the CPU temps ate better, both clc fluid and thermal margin, which REALLY surprises me, considering that I am pumping 1.52v into it under load.

This is the same chip I had in the d3h. Once I find its ceiling, I will try the new one I have sitting on the shelf, try my hand at the silicon lottery, hah.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> So initial results from the Crossblade Ranger are very promising. I have only just started trying out some clocks and stress testing, and am enjoying some extra stability and consistency with the XBR as directly compared to the mATX D3H.
> 
> Currently testing 4.6ghz for stability, but have already been able to run some basic benches that were crushing the 860k on the scaling front.
> 
> Cinebench, 3dmark, and Unigine have all see improvements over 4.5, something that wasn't happening on the D3H due to freq fluctuations on the older board. The volts are solid, so are the frequencies, and even the CPU temps ate better, both clc fluid and thermal margin, which REALLY surprises me, considering that I am pumping 1.52v into it under load.
> 
> This is the same chip I had in the d3h. Once I find its ceiling, I will try the new one I have sitting on the shelf, try my hand at the silicon lottery, hah.


Awesome!


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Cold weather got me a few more MHz!
> Interesting that your CPU runs so hot. I can't make mine run hot. Maybe your TIM under the lid is bad or yours is just a real leaky stinker of a chip.
> 
> Anyways I've been benching 4.5GHz 1.52v since last night, taking advantage of some abmormally rare cold weather here on the Gulf Coast.


Well, I found part of the problem. I got suspicious when I put my hand in front of the "pull" fan and wasn't getting much airflow. Turned out that the fan controller that it was hooked up to is malfunctioning, and the fan wasn't working at anywhere near capacity. I found an open header on the motherboard and both fans (SilenX EFX12-15's) are now running at full capacity.

With the fans fixed, the system can run 4.5 GHz stable under Prime with a thermal margin of about 13-14C, about a 5C improvement. Still needs to be set at 1.55v in the BIOS, which comes to about 1.536 actual, and I'm not sure I want to run this chip that high. So it still runs hot, but it's not quite the stinker I thought it was...relatively speaking. It shouldn't really require a Megahalems and two 74 CFM fans to accomplish this.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Well, I found part of the problem. I got suspicious when I put my hand in front of the "pull" fan and wasn't getting much airflow. Turned out that the fan controller that it was hooked up to is malfunctioning, and the fan wasn't working at anywhere near capacity. I found an open header on the motherboard and both fans (SilenX EFX12-15's) are now running at full capacity.
> 
> With the fans fixed, the system can run 4.5 GHz stable under Prime with a thermal margin of about 13-14C, about a 5C improvement. Still needs to be set at 1.55v in the BIOS, which comes to about 1.536 actual, and I'm not sure I want to run this chip that high. So it still runs hot, but it's not quite the stinker I thought it was...relatively speaking. It shouldn't really require a Megahalems and two 74 CFM fans to accomplish this.


I'm not suprised the fan made a difference.

Mine really likes cold. We had abnormal freezing weather for a change here on the Gulf Coast last week and I let my room get like 35F, so I could bench lol. Sure enough I was able to boot up and even stabilize 4.5GHz with 1.55v, but as soon as the cold left, so did my stability. Back to 70F January and 4.3GHz, and I'm keeping an eye on that if I have to lower it more.

Another point I want to bring up is that I'm pretty happy with the VRM on this MSI board. The heatsinks are always cool, so I imagine it's running cool. My Extreme6+ VRM sink is like a volcano, despite the many more ICs under there to share the load. I guess more isn't always better. The chokes run hot as hell on that board too.


----------



## PhRe4k

This chip runs pretty cool for me, idle temps are a low 20's with stock cooler with crappy cooler master paste. (lost my 212 backplate, waiting for a replacement to ship out) I can't wait to OC, but so far in day to day usage it's not much different than my 4670K


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> This chip runs pretty cool for me, idle temps are a low 20's with stock cooler with crappy cooler master paste. (lost my 212 backplate, waiting for a replacement to ship out) I can't wait to OC, but so far in day to day usage it's not much different than my 4670K


How is it different?


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> How is it different?


I'm not one for benchmarks, but from what I've read the i5 is a beat compared to the 860K. Not sure if that translates to gaming, but it probably depends on the game and resolution more than anything


----------



## DannyDK

For me benching is just for fun 
Doest the amd feel slower than the intel cpu in everyday tasks and how about gaming? Yes, the 4670k is a grunt of a cpu


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I'm not one for benchmarks, but from what I've read the i5 is a beat compared to the 860K. Not sure if that translates to gaming, but it probably depends on the game and resolution more than anything


Lots of discussion on this all over OCN (doesn't bother me a bit







.....

The i5 will beat it by a good margin in pretty much everything you could test it on except high level gaming, where the GPU is the bottleneck, and almost any quad core CPU will feed the struggling video card frame information as fast as it can render it.

You lighten the load some (ie: medium settings, low resolutions, less demanding titles, etc) and you will see the intel architecture run away from the AMD platform.
For budget gaming, and normal use dekstop rigs, the low cost AMD quads are great, especially if you consider the price.


----------



## RaduZ

I have a 860k paired with R9 285, and I am constantly monitoring the CPU usage and Vram usage, never hit 100% on either in any AAA game at 1080p.The thing that limits me is still the GPU.

Also it's decent at video editing and exporting gaming footage.Clocked at 4.4 ghz i get about 1:1 1:1.2 times at exporting.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I'm not suprised the fan made a difference.
> 
> We had abnormal freezing weather for a change here on the Gulf Coast last week.


I thought you resided either in Philly, "Dr. J". or Detroit area. "Eight Mile".


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> For me benching is just for fun
> Doest the amd feel slower than the intel cpu in everyday tasks and how about gaming? Yes, the 4670k is a grunt of a cpu


In everyday tasks, you'd have a hard time telling the difference between a Core 2 Duo and a 5960X. We passed the point where a CPU was "good enough" for everyday tasks a long time ago, which is why so many people are happily using tablets for everyday tasks today.

An 860K can't keep up with a 4670K or anything else in that class. It can hang with some of the downmarket parts if you overclock it. As a matter of fact, I was running benchmarks on the 860K at 4.5 earlier today, and its Passmark scores at that clock are 6719/1956 single thread. I looked up the chart to see what the most comparable CPU to those scores is, and it's actually the i5-4460 (non-K), which scores 6711/1965 and costs $120 more than I paid for this 860K. In fairness, though, you don't need a high-end motherboard, a high-end aftermarket cooler, or to overclock at all to get there on the 4460. If you were starting from scratch, you'd probably choose the 4460 to get this level of performance, since you can do it on any 1150 motherboard and a stock cooler. And comparing it to any recent Intel K-chip takes it completely out of the game, since those can overclock over 4 GHz on cheap cooling solutions.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> In everyday tasks, you'd have a hard time telling the difference between a Core 2 Duo and a 5960X. We passed the point where a CPU was "good enough" for everyday tasks a long time ago, which is why so many people are happily using tablets for everyday tasks today.
> 
> An 860K can't keep up with a 4670K or anything else in that class. It can hang with some of the downmarket parts if you overclock it. As a matter of fact, I was running benchmarks on the 860K at 4.5 earlier today, and its Passmark scores at that clock are 6719/1956 single thread. I looked up the chart to see what the most comparable CPU to those scores is, and it's actually the i5-4460 (non-K), which scores 6711/1965 and costs $120 more than I paid for this 860K. In fairness, though, you don't need a high-end motherboard, a high-end aftermarket cooler, or to overclock at all to get there on the 4460. If you were starting from scratch, you'd probably choose the 4460 to get this level of performance, since you can do it on any 1150 motherboard and a stock cooler. And comparing it to any recent Intel K-chip takes it completely out of the game, since those can overclock over 4 GHz on cheap cooling solutions.


But a lot of the fun is taking something that is cheaper and lower performing and seeing what you can squeeze out of it. I get more enjoyment doing that than actually gaming or just about anything that you can do with your rig.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> But a lot of the fun is taking something that is cheaper and lower performing and seeing what you can squeeze out of it. I get more enjoyment doing that than actually gaming or just about anything that you can do with your rig.


I agree, and it's the same for me. I just don't want someone coming along and reading this thread and thinking all they have to do is get an 860K and a cheap FM2+ board and throw it together, overclock to 4.5, and voilà--they have the equivalent of an i5-4460. I have the equivalent of an i5-4460 only because a $130 motherboard with a $60 cooler and $25 worth of fans, all of which I already owned, made it possible. I derive plenty of enjoyment from the fact I'm getting the performance of a $190 Intel CPU from a $70 AMD one, but for someone trying to make an informed decision about what they should buy, they have to consider what you need to replicate that. A lot of what keeps me coming back to OCN is to help people make informed decisions.


----------



## DannyDK

Also realy like to spend time with my 7850k for the same reason, benching is fun 
I just cant get more out the 7850k than 4.5, and hold on, with 1.55 voltage and some offset +, otherwise it will just BSOD on me. I have an ok board (Asrock killer) but if i had a ROG board i woul proberbly not be needing all that voltage to get it to 4.5. I only have it cooled by a Cooler Master poseidon (thinks its the V model) so it runs hot when 4.5 and the fan on the cooler runs max speed when doing simple things like moving files or scaning for old drivers etc. etc., so i dont think its worth it going 4.5 with all the noise i get, it actually makes a lot less noise when only 4.4 so thats where i keep it


----------



## HeadGear

Mis-post


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Mis-post


7850k and 860k is the same thing (basicly) and we where talking about benching


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> 7850k and 860k is the same thing (basicly) and we where talking about benching


I typed those sentences hours before, at work, and got pulled away, when I went back to it accidently submitted. Was incomplete and made irrelevant by the above posts, heh.


----------



## DannyDK

OK


----------



## damric

I would hope the i5K is faster. It's 3x expensive, not including the motherboard...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I thought you resided either in Philly, "Dr. J". or Detroit area. "Eight Mile".


Originally from South Jersey. Eight Mile, Alabama


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Also realy like to spend time with my 7850k for the same reason, benching is fun
> I just cant get more out the 7850k than 4.5, and hold on, with 1.55 voltage and some offset +, otherwise it will just BSOD on me. I have an ok board (Asrock killer) but if i had a ROG board i woul proberbly not be needing all that voltage to get it to 4.5. I only have it cooled by a Cooler Master poseidon (thinks its the V model) so it runs hot when 4.5 and the fan on the cooler runs max speed when doing simple things like moving files or scaning for old drivers etc. etc., so i dont think its worth it going 4.5 with all the noise i get, it actually makes a lot less noise when only 4.4 so thats where i keep it


Getting to 4.5 seems to be easier on the 6+2 boards, the A88X-PRO and the Crossblade Ranger. If you have LLC on that AsRock board, it might help to set it as high as it can go. It's a 4+2, and it might handle the extra voltage delivery as long as the VRM's are kept cool.

Since you're using a discrete GPU, your 7850K is basically an 860K, and might actually be better silicon since at least some 860K's are 7850K parts that had defects in their GPU and had it disabled because of this. To be a 7850K, a chip has to pass every test at the factory. What we're discussing here should be completely applicable to a full 7850K running with no GPU.

Better cooling on the CPU might make a difference. I was having trouble at 4.5 when my thermal margin (per AMD OverDrive) was dropping to 8-9C, but when I discovered my pull fan was not running full speed and corrected it, the thermal margin improved to 13-14C and the chip is now long-term stable at 4.5 GHz at a setting of 1.525v, which registers at 1.504-1.512 on CPU-Z. All of the power saving features are still fully enabled, too, so it powers down to less than 1v at 1.7 GHz at idle. Most 860K's don't seem to run hot even at 1.5 under load, but this one does.


----------



## DannyDK

Yes i have the llc on max, found it better because at 4.4 i dont need any offset with llc on max 
The vrm heatsink has its own 10cm fan (or 12cm, not sure) blowing strait on it, in fact i have lying right on the vrm heatsink


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I would hope the i5K is faster. It's 3x expensive, not including the motherboard...
> Originally from South Jersey. Eight Mile, Alabama


Alabama. I have spent time in Huntsville and Anniston. Two very hot places.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Yes i have the llc on max, found it better because at 4.4 i dont need any offset with llc on max
> The vrm heatsink has its own 10cm fan (or 12cm, not sure) blowing strait on it, in fact i have lying right on the vrm heatsink


That may be the limit of that board, then. Still, 4.4 is pretty solid. You've got 10 percent or more on a Piledriver core chip, so 4.4 on an 860K is like running an FX-4300 at 4.8. You might get a little more on a high-end board, but that would be an awful lot of money for 100 or 200 more MHz.

The CPU cooling should actually be fine. When you called it the "Poseidon," I looked it up and there is a generic brand CLC by that name, but yours is a CM Seidon 120V, which is about even with a Corsair H80i, and that's enough to deal with the heat of an 860K.


----------



## syl1979

Hello,

I have just installed a 560K with Asus A88XM plus. The card was dated of october , was able to access bios to update with the new one 2001 ( improve stability with 860K).

I use a small cas with power box just over my cooler. I use then inverted fan on the CPU cooler to pull the air from the CPU in the same direction as the power fan.

On first try I am able to reach 4.2Ghz stable on load at 63deg C. with Vcore offset at -0.025. and LCC off.
I will try to push it a little and see the result. Not stable at 4.3Ghz with Vcore Offset at 0.

Strange behavior of the motherboard :
when the CPU ratio is on auto, the auto Vcore move up to 1.5v. If I set the offset at 0, the resulting Vcore is around 1.4v. I need to have on offset of -0.9 to match the VID of 1.31V.
When the CPU ration is defined manually, offset at 0 = Vcore 1,31V....

Cinebench CPU ratio auto 3.7Ghz = 310
Cinebench CPU 4.2Ghz = 347


----------



## RaduZ

I also have that motherboard wth an A10-7850k and i can confirm that the auto voltage on that board is freken nuts, you can run a train with the amount of voltage that board decides to output. At 4.2 i think you can run at stock voltage with medium LLC. Also dont be afraid to put it to some work at 1.46 Vcore and LLC high my caps stayed arround 76C and the mosfet heatsink around 64C. A bit high but not that bad.


----------



## syl1979

Some feedback after today's trials... It appears that without additional cooling I will not be able to go higher than this 4.2Ghz... I can go higher by increasing voltage (have tried x45 at 1.45v), but I get throttling when I go on positive Vcore offset (due to Mosfet I think). Anyway it is not so bad, this makes me a great upgrade for replacing an old X2 3800+ (rat 2.5Ghz).


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Some feedback after today's trials... It appears that without additional cooling I will not be able to go higher than this 4.2Ghz... I can go higher by increasing voltage (have tried x45 at 1.45v), but I get throttling when I go on positive Vcore offset (due to Mosfet I think). Anyway it is not so bad, this makes me a great upgrade for replacing an old X2 3800+ (rat 2.5Ghz).


I really hate the fact that many motherboard manufacturers hide the advanced power management settings within the CPU options of the bios. WAY DOWN in the options. I was getting throttling on my 860k whenever my CPU got close to 45 degrees. I mean, the CPU is rated up to 72C, so why would they put it so low!? Anyways, disabling the option has made everything great. I have a A88X-UP4 though, so if you don't have a great overclocking board, I might advise against it.


----------



## syl1979

In my case at x42 and limited vcore at -0.025 at full charge i am at 63deg without throttling. If I increase the voltage then it starts. I have tried also a lot of power options but I really think I need to add extra cooling on the VRMs if I want to go higher... Is it possible to get access to some VRM temperature reading?

Side View


Top View

On my previous build with the X2 3800+, the CPU fan was aligned with the Power supply. It was much more efficient

And here some record of Prime95 test at.4.2Ghz


----------



## DannyDK

Anyone used PCMark 8?

http://www.3dmark.com/pcm8/5584480


----------



## Agent Smith1984

I'm going to DL this and run it on my son's x4 propus rig with a 7950 and see how they compare....

Should be interesting









I'd like to see your rig at a more mild 3.8-4GHz run it too, cause I can't get him past 3.7GHz right now on his board/PSU, but am working on cooling the VRM's this weekend, and shooting for 3.9-4GHz, which will really wake this thing up.

I'll run it on my thuban too and see how it does....

Thanks for the post!


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Anyone used PCMark 8?
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/pcm8/5584480


That benchmark is as exciting as watching paint dry. I ran it on my 760K a while back.

http://www.3dmark.com/pcm8hm3/2042


----------



## RaduZ

Here is my try http://www.3dmark.com/pcm8/5592756


----------



## Agent Smith1984

40 minute test duration????

That's insane.... Must be giving a good indication of performance though!


----------



## DannyDK

i believe mine took 38 minuttes


----------



## RaduZ

Personaly i think it's **** but meh... what do i know


----------



## bernieyee

New to overclocking the 860K with a GA-F2A88XM-D3H

Was getting horrible FPS in DOTA2 with a R9 270X. Couldn't get constant 60FPS despite having sufficient hardware.

Read through this thread, and I believe it was throttling since it was always dropping back and forth 4.2GHz and 1.7GHz.

I currently have the following settings:
1) Multiplier at 42X
2) LCC - Extreme
3) AMD Cool n' Quiet Disabled

Anything else I need to do? I noticed with those settings, Core 0/1 are hovering between 3.8GHz and 4.2GHz while Core 2/3 are at a constantly 1.7GHz. What does this mean?

Also, I can't seem to manually dial in my own voltage within the BIOS. Is this board not good for OC'ing?

Overclocking a 860K is way more work than with a G3258 where only multiplier and voltage needs to be changed in order to get a nice overclock.

EDIT: Turns out Cool n' Quiet being disabled causes two of the cores to be locked at 1.7GHz as per another member's posting in this thread.

EDIT2: I also disabled the Turbo settings, and now my cores all run at 4.2GHz. Ramped it up to 4.4GHz to see if it made a difference in choppiness.. no difference. Could it be a software issue with the game? I feel like a 860K @ 4.4GHz with no throttling should be able to run the game without dropping frames.

EDIT3: My 860K is running at 4.4GHz with 1.275v (auto in BIOS since I don't understand the +0.xxx settings). Haven't done any stress testing yet, but assuming that it works out well, do I have myself a nicely binned chip?

EDIT4: Weird.. the 860K is listed as having a PassMark score of 5644. But when I just benched mine at 4.4GHz, it comes up as 5632. although the Single Thread score is 1598 and mine scored 1702.. shouldn't I be seeing bigger numbers here? jsc1973 and his 860K at 4.5GHz got scores of 6719 and 1956. I don't think my CPU is throttling seeing as they're all displaying 4.4GHz during the benchmarking.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Don't worry about passmark bro, worry about getting it stable first.

If it's not at least semi-stable, the CPU, despite running benchmarks, could be producing several errors per second which means the increase in clock cycles is wasted, and the performance is more hindered than improved (to some degree, we can all bench at higher numbers for better scores, but it does not always scale appropriately).

Run 10-20 large linpacks with intelburn or something and see how that goes for you.
Find your highest core clock within safe temp margins using that. Also remember it's not called "intelburn" for nothing, so you will see temps get hotter than damn near any other app could possibly push them.

Once you find a good core speed, shoot for finding the highest RAM speed, and tightest timings, and run some more linpacks.

Then once you get that going well, try to prime it for a few hours and see how it does.
If all is well, play some games for an hour or more and verify stability there.

IF all of that pans out, call it a day, run p95 overnight, and see if you wake up to a "stable" system.....


----------



## RaduZ

@bernieyee turn down the LLC, Extreme is a bit risky for a 4+2 board with no heatsink. Try diferent power saving features on and off, maybe that helps. The game should run 60 FPS easy on that sistem, there has to be a problem somwhere. (maybe the VRM is heating up too mutch)

Also don't keep the voltage on auto, the +0.xxx simply means you increase the voltage by that increment from the stock voltage of ~1.350(i think) also depending on your LLC the voltage shown in CPUZ will be higher, especialy under load.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

1.2XXV sounds too low for an 860K @4.4GHz. I have the same motherboard and I needed ~1.422V for 4.4GHz. I agree that having Cool&Quiet enabled made two cores throttle to lower speeds. Disable all power saving options C6, APM, etc except Cool&Quiet for the F2A88XM-D3H. Here are the settings I used for my OCs.

4.3GHz - 1.368V (+0.036)
4.4GHz - 1.422V (+0.090)
4.5GHz - 1.452V (+0.120)
4.7GHz - 1.554V (+0.222)

This was with small heatsinks installed on the VRM with a fan cooling them though. Your results may be different as motherboards/cpus will perform differently. Also I had my NB OCed to 2.2GHz. Also my LLC was left on Auto


----------



## DannyDK

Wouldnt mind to have my NB at 2.2 if I go any higher than 2.0 it wont post or anything. Your a lucky man


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Thanks. I have thoroughly tested 2.2 NB up to 4.4GHz. I believe it's possible with 4.5GHz but 4.6 and 4.7GHz can only work with 2.0 NB. I believe the NB Voltage I used for the 860K + F2A88XM-D3H was 1.325V which might be the max recommended NB voltage for 760K. Anything less probably didn't work for 2.2 NB. That computer is now back in their original boxes ready to be sold now so I can't double check my settings.


----------



## bernieyee

Ended up returning the 860K for a G3258 to see if it was a processor issue.

Turns out the same issue occurred, and I ended up finding out the issue was with the anti-aliasing. I guess it's somewhat buggy in DOTA2. I toggled it off and on, and now it works.

Unfortunately, had I known, I would've stuck with the 860K since multi-tasking is better with it and the only game I play are on the Source engine.. but I don't want to look like a ****** going back and exchanging everything again.. so I guess I'm stuck with this for now.


----------



## syl1979

Back on my overclock attempt on my small case...

I have made one trial putting bag the CPU fan on original flow (top to bottom).
It ended up with CPU temp reporting up to 69deg without stabilizing, and starting to see throttling.
Even if I have a good cooling in the beginning; the heat stays and the bad airflow cannot allow to remove hot air.

Voltage offset -0.025, LLC at 0%. 4.2Ghz, APM & C6 Off



Just to remember, same settings with CPU fan inverted : In the beginning the fan doesn't cool well. When a,biant temp rise, the PSU fan start to blow higher and pulls the hot air out of the case. I can stabilize at less than 63deg.
Unfortunatly the flow is not enough to cool the VRMs and I cannot increase voltage to go over 4.2 Ghz



Later I will try to buy some small 5x5 fan that I can use to extract hot air in first configuration. For now on I stay with this 4.2Ghz.

Next, I will give comparison of 3dmark :

Stock 3.7 Ghz + HD6850 overclocked 950/1050
4.2 Ghz + HD 6850 overclocked 950/1050
4.2 Ghz + R7 265 (new purchase)

Edit : Updated pictures with new tests with APM & C6 Off


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> lol get your ******ed ass back to the store


LOL, I second that.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> New to overclocking the 860K with a GA-F2A88XM-D3H
> 
> Was getting horrible FPS in DOTA2 with a R9 270X. Couldn't get constant 60FPS despite having sufficient hardware.
> 
> Read through this thread, and I believe it was throttling since it was always dropping back and forth 4.2GHz and 1.7GHz.
> 
> I currently have the following settings:
> 1) Multiplier at 42X
> 2) LCC - Extreme
> 3) AMD Cool n' Quiet Disabled
> 
> Anything else I need to do? I noticed with those settings, Core 0/1 are hovering between 3.8GHz and 4.2GHz while Core 2/3 are at a constantly 1.7GHz. What does this mean?
> 
> Also, I can't seem to manually dial in my own voltage within the BIOS. Is this board not good for OC'ing?
> 
> Overclocking a 860K is way more work than with a G3258 where only multiplier and voltage needs to be changed in order to get a nice overclock.
> 
> EDIT: Turns out Cool n' Quiet being disabled causes two of the cores to be locked at 1.7GHz as per another member's posting in this thread.
> 
> EDIT2: I also disabled the Turbo settings, and now my cores all run at 4.2GHz. Ramped it up to 4.4GHz to see if it made a difference in choppiness.. no difference. Could it be a software issue with the game? I feel like a 860K @ 4.4GHz with no throttling should be able to run the game without dropping frames.
> 
> EDIT3: My 860K is running at 4.4GHz with 1.275v (auto in BIOS since I don't understand the +0.xxx settings). Haven't done any stress testing yet, but assuming that it works out well, do I have myself a nicely binned chip?
> 
> EDIT4: Weird.. the 860K is listed as having a PassMark score of 5644. But when I just benched mine at 4.4GHz, it comes up as 5632. although the Single Thread score is 1598 and mine scored 1702.. shouldn't I be seeing bigger numbers here? jsc1973 and his 860K at 4.5GHz got scores of 6719 and 1956. I don't think my CPU is throttling seeing as they're all displaying 4.4GHz during the benchmarking.


That board is OK, but it has one major weakness when it comes to overclocking--it has no cooling on the VRM's, and any 95-100W chip that you try to overclock on it is going to make those fets get really hot. I actually had that motherboard for a time, but I was running an A6-6400K on it. It's a nice board, well made, but not really meant for OC. I got my scores with an ASUS A88X-PRO, a 6+2 enthusiast board with a large heatpipe heatsink on the fets, and in my opinion the second-best board you can buy for FM2/FM2+ applications. (The much more expensive Crossblade Ranger, an ASUS ROG board, is the top dog, but the A88X-PRO has the substance, if not the style, of the Ranger.)

What you need to do, if you want to try to fix that throttling issue, is get some cooling on those VRM's. These copper heatsinks will make a huge difference on that board, and bring it up to the level of any of the best 4+2 boards. I stuck some cheap aluminum sinks on mine and then used the D3H in a build for a friend's birthday. Still going strong six months later.

If you want to try to get more out of your chip, pick up those copper sinks, and make sure you have some airflow directed over that area. With proper cooling, the VRM's shouldn't throttle that way. You may also have to turn off any low-power states that are still enabled. You still might not get as far as I did, because you have fewer power phases, but it will help you a lot.

There's no way you're running 4.4 stable at 1.275v without that chip throttling. I need about 1.45 to be stable at 4.4, and 1.51 for 4.5. If you really were running 4.4 stable at that voltage, it's not "nicely binned," it's "jackpot in the silicon lottery." Unless it's like my old 6800K that would run 4.4 at 1.3 and couldn't make 4.7 with 1.5.







But Kaveri is a very different beast than Richland and I really don't think any Kaveri quad would run a steady, stable 4.4 at that voltage.

Incidentally, after a bit more tweaking and remembering to apply the Windows 7 hotfix for K15h chips, my Passmark scores at 4.5 GHz are now 6891 and 1958 single core. This 860K at 4.5 on this board is a match for an i5-2550K or 3550 at stock. Keep this chip cool and prevent it from throttling and it's a fantastic value for the price it sells at. And yes, it's harder to OC an 860K than a G3258, but a maxed-out 860K is a better CPU than a G3258, also. A G3258 can't match the all-around performance of an Ivy or Sandy quad-core no matter what you do. This chip can.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> There's no way you're running 4.4 stable at 1.275v without that chip throttling. I need about 1.45 to be stable at 4.4, and 1.51 for 4.5. If you really were running 4.4 stable at that voltage, it's not "nicely binned," it's "jackpot in the silicon lottery." Unless it's like my old 6800K that would run 4.4 at 1.3 and couldn't make 4.7 with 1.5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Kaveri is a very different beast than Richland and I really don't think any Kaveri quad would run a steady, stable 4.4 at that voltage.


4.4GHz with 1.275V is probably impossible but with good cooling, small heatsinks on the VRM and a fan pointed at the VRMs it's perfectly possible to get similar if not better results than what you are getting on your A88X Pro with a F2A88XM-D3H. With an H100i, Aluminum VRM Heatsink with a 60-80mm fan pointed at the VRMs in my CM N200 with 7 120mm fans I had some decent overclocking on my 860K chip. I only used Prime95 then but each overclock passed 8+ hours of Small FFT and 8+ hours of Blend. Also take into consideration these overclocks also had the NB OCed to 2200MHz up til 4.7GHz which was OCed to 2000MHz.

4.3GHz (1.368V)
4.4GHz (1.422V)
4.5GHz (1.452V)
4.7GHz (1.554V)


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> 4.4GHz with 1.275V is probably impossible but with good cooling, small heatsinks on the VRM and a fan pointed at the VRMs it's perfectly possible to get similar if not better results than what you are getting on your A88X Pro with a F2A88XM-D3H. With an H100i, Aluminum VRM Heatsink with a 60-80mm fan pointed at the VRMs in my CM N200 with 7 120mm fans I had some decent overclocking on my 860K chip. I only used Prime95 then but each overclock passed 8+ hours of Small FFT and 8+ hours of Blend. Also take into consideration these overclocks also had the NB OCed to 2200MHz up til 4.7GHz which was OCed to 2000MHz.
> 
> 4.3GHz (1.368V)
> 4.4GHz (1.422V)
> 4.5GHz (1.452V)
> 4.7GHz (1.554V)


North bridge at 2200 is pretty awesome, both chips I tried wouldn't post above 2000 no matter what I did, on either board, bleh.

Those voltages are about what I was seeing on both chips as well, coming from the F2A88XM-D3H (with vrm sinks added), and into the XBR, but was only really stable past 4.5 in the XBR.

On the D3H, with vrm sinks and direct air cooling on them, anything past 4.5 was throttling and dipping in freq consistency, a problem that doesn't show on the XBR. Though they both have similar boot limitations.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> North bridge at 2200 is pretty awesome, both chips I tried wouldn't post above 2000 no matter what I did, on either board, bleh.
> 
> Those voltages are about what I was seeing on both chips as well, coming from the F2A88XM-D3H (with vrm sinks added), and into the XBR, but was only really stable past 4.5 in the XBR.
> 
> On the D3H, with vrm sinks and direct air cooling on them, anything past 4.5 was throttling and dipping in freq consistency, a problem that doesn't show on the XBR. Though they both have similar boot limitations.


Yeah it's amazing and annoying how different each chip performs. I didn't have severe throttling problems with my 860K and motherboard. Whether 4.3GHz or 4.7GHz AMD Over Drive showed Thermal Margins at double digits. That being said I did have that issue with Cool&Quiet that would throttle two cores to 1.4/1.7GHz no matter what when it was disabled. Enabling Cool&Quiet allowed all four cores to run at the OCed speeds. The thing is that it wasn't like that before. Even at 4.7GHz the 860K didn't create that much heat from my memory in comparison the 8350 I am using runs warmer. What voltages were you using when you tried to OC the NB? I used either 1.325V or 1.375V because that was the so called max recommended NB voltage for Richland (760K) or Kaveri (7850K). I only tested 2200MHz up to 4.4GHz. 4.6GHz could only run stable with 2100MHz and 4.7GHz could only go to 2000MHz. I wonder if 4.5GHz would have been stable with 2200MHz.

No doubt the XBR is a great motherboard. I bought the F2A88XM-D3H because I wanted a Micro-ATX and it went on sale for like $65 for the first time but I was so tempted when Asus released the XBR. There's no point now in getting it as I have an CHVF-Z, especially if the only thing coming out for FM2+ is a Kaveri Refresh.

I wish I tried to see what was the highest CPU Frequency I could boot with the 860K but I only tested for the Prime95 8+ hours stability. By 4.7GHz I was already at 1.55V or 1.56V so I never tried any higher.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah it's amazing and annoying how different each chip performs. I didn't have severe throttling problems with my 860K and motherboard. Whether 4.3GHz or 4.7GHz AMD Over Drive showed Thermal Margins at double digits. That being said I did have that issue with Cool&Quiet that would throttle two cores to 1.4/1.7GHz no matter what when it was disabled. Enabling Cool&Quiet allowed all four cores to run at the OCed speeds. The thing is that it wasn't like that before. Even at 4.7GHz the 860K didn't create that much heat from my memory in comparison the 8350 I am using runs warmer. What voltages were you using when you tried to OC the NB? I used either 1.325V or 1.375V because that was the so called max recommended NB voltage for Richland (760K) or Kaveri (7850K). I only tested 2200MHz up to 4.4GHz. 4.6GHz could only run stable with 2100MHz and 4.7GHz could only go to 2000MHz. I wonder if 4.5GHz would have been stable with 2200MHz.
> 
> No doubt the XBR is a great motherboard. I bought the F2A88XM-D3H because I wanted a Micro-ATX and it went on sale for like $65 for the first time but I was so tempted when Asus released the XBR. There's no point now in getting it as I have an CHVF-Z, especially if the only thing coming out for FM2+ is a Kaveri Refresh.
> 
> I wish I tried to see what was the highest CPU Frequency I could boot with the 860K but I only tested for the Prime95 8+ hours stability. By 4.7GHz I was already at 1.55V or 1.56V so I never tried any higher.


I really like my Crossblade Ranger. I also really like my Asus A88X-PRO. Way better boards than my ASrock Extreme 6. I hope we see some kind of Kaveri refresh or Carrizo for the desktop before FM2+ rides off into the sunset.


----------



## DannyDK

Is Extreme 6 not 6+2?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I really like my Crossblade Ranger. I also really like my Asus A88X-PRO. Way better boards than my ASrock Extreme 6. I hope we see some kind of Kaveri refresh or Carrizo for the desktop before FM2+ rides off into the sunset.


I believe Kaveri Refresh has been confirmed for the desktop FM2+ socket I believe. At least that's what I thought I read a few days ago. Carrizo on desktop I'm not sure of


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> I believe Kaveri Refresh has been confirmed for the desktop FM2+ socket I believe. At least that's what I thought I read a few days ago. Carrizo on desktop I'm not sure of


The reports last week said that a Kaveri refresh ofr the desktop was coming, and that Carrizo might come to the desktop, but only in a BGA format, which wouldn't help FM2+ users.

I suspect that the Excavator core may not scale to speeds high enough to make it a useful part for the desktop. AMD clearly targeted power consumption over clock speed, and if they can't make the chip in high yields at 3.5 GHz or better, then there's no point in releasing it for anything but mobile. A Kaveri with better thermal and clock characteristics makes more sense in that case. Expect to hear an announcement of the A10-7950K and the Athlon 870K later on this year.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The reports last week said that a Kaveri refresh ofr the desktop was coming, and that Carrizo might come to the desktop, but only in a BGA format, which wouldn't help FM2+ users.
> 
> I suspect that the Excavator core may not scale to speeds high enough to make it a useful part for the desktop. AMD clearly targeted power consumption over clock speed, and if they can't make the chip in high yields at 3.5 GHz or better, then there's no point in releasing it for anything but mobile. A Kaveri with better thermal and clock characteristics makes more sense in that case. Expect to hear an announcement of the A10-7950K and the Athlon 870K later on this year.


Yeah hopefully these chips will reach 5GHz+ more frequently and easier than the current Kaveri. Only point I see myself buying an APU in the future is if AMD releases a way to utilize the IGP for other tasks while a discrete GPU is being used. For example like when they talked about GrassFX/TressFX, if the IGP did physics calculations in games. The Kaveri Refresh will need to be priced accordingly. Even with AM3+ being older than FM2+ gaming wise and everything else that uses more threads the FX 6-Core and 8-Core are better. With the FX 6300 priced at ~$100 always and the FX 8310 ~$90 on sale occasionally (a little more than FX 6300 normally) the '870K' will need to be priced lower than that for people like me to buy it. Now if the IPC improvements were large that would be different, but this is a refresh not a new architecture. I don't benchmark competitively so my FM2+ had a short life. If I get a buyer for my FM2+ parts it won't even matter but I don't see a point in buying Kaveri Refresh when I can run 4.7GHz stable with Prime95 and OCCT just for a few hundred more MHz(didn't know about IBT back when using 860K).


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah it's amazing and annoying how different each chip performs. I didn't have severe throttling problems with my 860K and motherboard. Whether 4.3GHz or 4.7GHz AMD Over Drive showed Thermal Margins at double digits. That being said I did have that issue with Cool&Quiet that would throttle two cores to 1.4/1.7GHz no matter what when it was disabled. Enabling Cool&Quiet allowed all four cores to run at the OCed speeds. The thing is that it wasn't like that before. Even at 4.7GHz the 860K didn't create that much heat from my memory in comparison the 8350 I am using runs warmer. What voltages were you using when you tried to OC the NB? I used either 1.325V or 1.375V because that was the so called max recommended NB voltage for Richland (760K) or Kaveri (7850K). I only tested 2200MHz up to 4.4GHz. 4.6GHz could only run stable with 2100MHz and 4.7GHz could only go to 2000MHz. I wonder if 4.5GHz would have been stable with 2200MHz.
> 
> No doubt the XBR is a great motherboard. I bought the F2A88XM-D3H because I wanted a Micro-ATX and it went on sale for like $65 for the first time but I was so tempted when Asus released the XBR. There's no point now in getting it as I have an CHVF-Z, especially if the only thing coming out for FM2+ is a Kaveri Refresh.
> 
> I wish I tried to see what was the highest CPU Frequency I could boot with the 860K but I only tested for the Prime95 8+ hours stability. By 4.7GHz I was already at 1.55V or 1.56V so I never tried any higher.


I tried up to the max NB volts to OC past 2000, to no avail. Anything above 2k wouldn't post. It has to be chip dependent, as I hit the same wall on both chips in both Motherboards. That being said, the 860k at 4.5/2k NB is a beastly gaming chip, and had I not got greedy with wanting to crossfire my R9 270, I would still be using it happily. The new owner is having a great time gaming with a 280x on that board and 860k, and I imagine he will have fun with that for a long time to come.

Regardless of whether C&Q was on or off, the D3H would throttle and drop frequencies above 4.5ghz, even with strong VRM cooling and plenty of thermal margin. My cooler (antec kuhler 1250) is extremely overkill for Kaveri, so much so, that even stress testing with P95 Small FFTs with 4.7 @ 1.53v was leaving me with over 20c thermal margin on the D3H, and in the ATX config with superior airflow on the XBR, I rarely drop below 30c margin at the same clocks. So i am pretty sure I am not thermally limited, heh.

My PSU is so overkill it is embarrassing, but at least its one thing I won't have to worry about, like, ever, hah. I like overkill in the support parts, it means I can isolate issues as they arise without the nagging concern that something else is holding me back.

This FM2+ build started with mATX budget in mind, but I got some great deals on a few key items that had convinced me to upsize to ATX. If ATX was the plan from the start, I probably would have tried the UP4 instead of the m-D3H as my starter FM2+ board, but I managed to squeeze a substantial price beat from Memory Express on the XBR, so I pulled the trigger on that one instead. This all really started with adding a second R9270 for Crossfire on the D3H, which was completely choked out by the PCIE 2.0 x4 second slot, followed by finding a Silverstone Strider 1500w PSU for $60, that wouldn't fit in my N200 without serious mods that I wasn't willing to undertake on such a cheap (but still capable and awesome) case. Its been a journey, and I still am happy with the prices I have paid to get the performance I enjoy, even if it doesn't really classify as a budget build anymore.

XBR is definitely an overengineered MB for the FM2+ platform, and I am ok with that. When I picked it up, Carrizo was still a possible drop in upgrade for FM2+, but recent news casts big doubt on that now, so am glad I didn't spend too much on the XBR, as this might be the highest performing chip I will be able to squeeze into it.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> I tried up to the max NB volts to OC past 2000, to no avail. Anything above 2k wouldn't post. It has to be chip dependent, as I hit the same wall on both chips in both Motherboards. That being said, the 860k at 4.5/2k NB is a beastly gaming chip, and had I not got greedy with wanting to crossfire my R9 270, I would still be using it happily. The new owner is having a great time gaming with a 280x on that board and 860k, and I imagine he will have fun with that for a long time to come.
> 
> Regardless of whether C&Q was on or off, the D3H would throttle and drop frequencies above 4.5ghz, even with strong VRM cooling and plenty of thermal margin. My cooler (antec kuhler 1250) is extremely overkill for Kaveri, so much so, that even stress testing with P95 Small FFTs with 4.7 @ 1.53v was leaving me with over 20c thermal margin on the D3H, and in the ATX config with superior airflow on the XBR, I rarely drop below 30c margin at the same clocks. So i am pretty sure I am not thermally limited, heh.
> 
> My PSU is so overkill it is embarrassing, but at least its one thing I won't have to worry about, like, ever, hah. I like overkill in the support parts, it means I can isolate issues as they arise without the nagging concern that something else is holding me back.
> 
> This FM2+ build started with mATX budget in mind, but I got some great deals on a few key items that had convinced me to upsize to ATX. If ATX was the plan from the start, I probably would have tried the UP4 instead of the m-D3H as my starter FM2+ board, but I managed to squeeze a substantial price beat from Memory Express on the XBR, so I pulled the trigger on that one instead. This all really started with adding a second R9270 for Crossfire on the D3H, which was completely choked out by the PCIE 2.0 x4 second slot, followed by finding a Silverstone Strider 1500w PSU for $60, that wouldn't fit in my N200 without serious mods that I wasn't willing to undertake on such a cheap (but still capable and awesome) case. Its been a journey, and I still am happy with the prices I have paid to get the performance I enjoy, even if it doesn't really classify as a budget build anymore.
> 
> XBR is definitely an overengineered MB for the FM2+ platform, and I am ok with that. When I picked it up, Carrizo was still a possible drop in upgrade for FM2+, but recent news casts big doubt on that now, so am glad I didn't spend too much on the XBR, as this might be the highest performing chip I will be able to squeeze into it.


Yeah only what AMD releases as 'Kaveri Refresh' will be stronger and even then we don't know what kind of changes will occur. Will there even be a IGP disabled CPU like an '870K'? I can see a speed increase in all the Kaver Refresh APU/CPUs although I have no clue what kind of stock frequency increase and overclock headroom will be had. For APUs I can see an increase in the IGP for the Highest APU


----------



## HeadGear

I'm not sure I would invest in an 870k or the likes, until there is some positive feedback on increased OC headroom. And, seeing as how this thread is one of the very very few discussions on the 860k I have found on the english side of the internet, I am not holding my breath. I also don't think I would pay the price for an APU, as I see no actual real world benefit for the GPU that would be included in the price of the chip. I was hoping for Excavator cores on FM2+, really, and ones that might OC better Kaveri. But even if the OC headroom remains the same, but IPC goes up, I would totally put my money down on a 960k or whatever it might be called.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah hopefully these chips will reach 5GHz+ more frequently and easier than the current Kaveri. Only point I see myself buying an APU in the future is if AMD releases a way to utilize the IGP for other tasks while a discrete GPU is being used. For example like when they talked about GrassFX/TressFX, if the IGP did physics calculations in games. The Kaveri Refresh will need to be priced accordingly. Even with AM3+ being older than FM2+ gaming wise and everything else that uses more threads the FX 6-Core and 8-Core are better. With the FX 6300 priced at ~$100 always and the FX 8310 ~$90 on sale occasionally (a little more than FX 6300 normally) the '870K' will need to be priced lower than that for people like me to buy it. Now if the IPC improvements were large that would be different, but this is a refresh not a new architecture. I don't benchmark competitively so my FM2+ had a short life. If I get a buyer for my FM2+ parts it won't even matter but I don't see a point in buying Kaveri Refresh when I can run 4.7GHz stable with Prime95 and OCCT just for a few hundred more MHz(didn't know about IBT back when using 860K).


The whole idea behind HSA is for the IGP to be able to off-load calculations from the CPU, as sort of an extra co-processor. But from what I understand, Kaveri's not a full HSA implementation as it currently ships. Maybe the refresh will have it fully operational. It would be nice if it did, and then AMD announced that Mantle can do the calculations in HSA on a HSA-enabled chip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah only what AMD releases as 'Kaveri Refresh' will be stronger and even then we don't know what kind of changes will occur. Will there even be a IGP disabled CPU like an '870K'? I can see a speed increase in all the Kaver Refresh APU/CPUs although I have no clue what kind of stock frequency increase and overclock headroom will be had. For APUs I can see an increase in the IGP for the Highest APU


I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be an Athlon version. First of all, there's got to be more of a demand for Athlons than for A10's, and second, AMD's going to continue to have chips come off the line that are OK except for errors in the GPU section of the chip. They'll probably delay it for a few months to try to get people to buy the full A10 at a much higher price, then release the Athlon version, the same way they did with Kaveri. But they'll sell Athlons simply because: 1) selling Athlons is better than wasting perfectly good chips with bad GPU sections, and 2) because a lot of people who won't buy A10's will buy them. I never would have bought a 7850K, but when I saw an 860K for $69.99, I went for it.

Incidentally, in my testing, the IPC of a Kaveri chip beats that of a Piledriver by a pretty fair margin. An 860K at stock (3.7 GHz) beats a 6800K at 4.4 in most areas and is only 12 percent behind in integer ops with all cores enabled. The 860K wins outright in single-core performance. An 860K at 4.5 performs between a stock Intel 2500K and a 3570K, and the Piledrivers have to get a ways beyond 5 GHz for that. The difference between Piledriver and Steamroller is almost always 10 percent or more, and sometimes 20 percent, at the same clocks (it would be a little less than that--probably 8-15 percent--on an FX because of the presence of the L3 cache, though). I'd love to get a hold of a SR chip that could go 5 GHz stable on 1.5v.

At this point, manufacturing is holding AMD back more than anything. The 860K at 4.5 is a competitive chip, but they can't make 860K's that can consistently hit that number for ordinary users on cheap FM2+ motherboards. If they could make these (and Carrizo) on one of Intel's 22nm nodes rather than a 28nm one, it might make the difference, but they don't have access to one.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The whole idea behind HSA is for the IGP to be able to off-load calculations from the CPU, as sort of an extra co-processor. But from what I understand, Kaveri's not a full HSA implementation as it currently ships. Maybe the refresh will have it fully operational. It would be nice if it did, and then AMD announced that Mantle can do the calculations in HSA on a HSA-enabled chip.
> I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be an Athlon version. First of all, there's got to be more of a demand for Athlons than for A10's, and second, AMD's going to continue to have chips come off the line that are OK except for errors in the GPU section of the chip. They'll probably delay it for a few months to try to get people to buy the full A10 at a much higher price, then release the Athlon version, the same way they did with Kaveri. But they'll sell Athlons simply because: 1) selling Athlons is better than wasting perfectly good chips with bad GPU sections, and 2) because a lot of people who won't buy A10's will buy them. I never would have bought a 7850K, but when I saw an 860K for $69.99, I went for it.
> 
> Incidentally, in my testing, the IPC of a Kaveri chip beats that of a Piledriver by a pretty fair margin. An 860K at stock (3.7 GHz) beats a 6800K at 4.4 in most areas and is only 12 percent behind in integer ops with all cores enabled. The 860K wins outright in single-core performance. An 860K at 4.5 performs between a stock Intel 2500K and a 3570K, and the Piledrivers have to get a ways beyond 5 GHz for that. The difference between Piledriver and Steamroller is almost always 10 percent or more, and sometimes 20 percent, at the same clocks (it would be a little less than that--probably 8-15 percent--on an FX because of the presence of the L3 cache, though). I'd love to get a hold of a SR chip that could go 5 GHz stable on 1.5v.
> 
> At this point, manufacturing is holding AMD back more than anything. The 860K at 4.5 is a competitive chip, but they can't make 860K's that can consistently hit that number for ordinary users on cheap FM2+ motherboards. If they could make these (and Carrizo) on one of Intel's 22nm nodes rather than a 28nm one, it might make the difference, but they don't have access to one.


You're right there is bound to be chips that don't turn out to their exact standards with the IGP and it would be a waste to just throw them away. Most likely they will wait a while after they release the APU variants for different reasons. One to sell as much of the more expensive APUs and then two they need to get ahold of a good amount of Kaveri Refresh APUs with defective IGPs. I also bought the 860K because it was $76 for me and that was a good $15 lower than the $90 new boxed versions. As far as IPC you are correct. But in my case I look for improvements in gaming and while the 860K was perfectly fine at 4.5-4.7GHz paired with an R9 290 I got a large enough boost going to an FX 8350 stock and/or 4.8GHz. If I don't find a buyer locally for the 860K and other components I will probably put the PC back together so I can compare performance between the 860K and 8350 in the tasks/activities I do on my desktops. The FX 8350 spoiled me a little with what I paid for it. I would have perfectly been happy with the 860K + R9 290 and I would have saved $295 by not having purchased the 8350, CHVF-Z, 600T. But I'm looking forward to GTA V and Witcher 3 and I'm not sure how well the 860K would perform with those. Single IPC performance is important but I'd like a mixture of cores and IPC improvements. I would take a 6-Core Steamroller Chip over an 8-Core Piledriver anyday even if it could only be overclocked even if the average OC was only 4.5GHz.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> You're right there is bound to be chips that don't turn out to their exact standards with the IGP and it would be a waste to just throw them away. Most likely they will wait a while after they release the APU variants for different reasons. One to sell as much of the more expensive APUs and then two they need to get ahold of a good amount of Kaveri Refresh APUs with defective IGPs. I also bought the 860K because it was $76 for me and that was a good $15 lower than the $90 new boxed versions. As far as IPC you are correct. But in my case I look for improvements in gaming and while the 860K was perfectly fine at 4.5-4.7GHz paired with an R9 290 I got a large enough boost going to an FX 8350 stock and/or 4.8GHz. If I don't find a buyer locally for the 860K and other components I will probably put the PC back together so I can compare performance between the 860K and 8350 in the tasks/activities I do on my desktops. The FX 8350 spoiled me a little with what I paid for it. I would have perfectly been happy with the 860K + R9 290 and I would have saved $295 by not having purchased the 8350, CHVF-Z, 600T. But I'm looking forward to GTA V and Witcher 3 and I'm not sure how well the 860K would perform with those. Single IPC performance is important but I'd like a mixture of cores and IPC improvements. I would take a 6-Core Steamroller Chip over an 8-Core Piledriver anyday even if it could only be overclocked even if the average OC was only 4.5GHz.


Part of my hope for Excavator was definitely the admittedly small chance of a 6core version. I do believe if there was a 6core variant of the APU in the sub 200 range I might not wait for the 960k, especially if there is hope for practical applications of HSA as an end user of the FM2+ platform.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Part of my hope for Excavator was definitely the admittedly small chance of a 6core version. I do believe if there was a 6core variant of the APU in the sub 200 range I might not wait for the 960k, especially if there is hope for practical applications of HSA as an end user of the FM2+ platform.


Stole the words right out of my mouth. The reason why I didn't buy the 7850K, price, was because I was waiting for an 6-Core APU that was fully HSA compatible so I could use the IGP for calculations.


----------



## PhRe4k

Hmm a 6 core Athlon would be great, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon sadly


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Hmm a 6 core Athlon would be great, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon sadly


Most likely not. Zen-based APUs might have had that but I don't think the process node is going to be good enough to allow for six CPU cores on a <300mm die, if the new cores are larger than Bulldozer based ones which is rather likely.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That board is OK, but it has one major weakness when it comes to overclocking--it has no cooling on the VRM's, and any 95-100W chip that you try to overclock on it is going to make those fets get really hot. I actually had that motherboard for a time, but I was running an A6-6400K on it. It's a nice board, well made, but not really meant for OC. I got my scores with an ASUS A88X-PRO, a 6+2 enthusiast board with a large heatpipe heatsink on the fets, and in my opinion the second-best board you can buy for FM2/FM2+ applications. (The much more expensive Crossblade Ranger, an ASUS ROG board, is the top dog, but the A88X-PRO has the substance, if not the style, of the Ranger.)
> 
> What you need to do, if you want to try to fix that throttling issue, is get some cooling on those VRM's. These copper heatsinks will make a huge difference on that board, and bring it up to the level of any of the best 4+2 boards. I stuck some cheap aluminum sinks on mine and then used the D3H in a build for a friend's birthday. Still going strong six months later.
> 
> If you want to try to get more out of your chip, pick up those copper sinks, and make sure you have some airflow directed over that area. With proper cooling, the VRM's shouldn't throttle that way. You may also have to turn off any low-power states that are still enabled. You still might not get as far as I did, because you have fewer power phases, but it will help you a lot.
> 
> There's no way you're running 4.4 stable at 1.275v without that chip throttling. I need about 1.45 to be stable at 4.4, and 1.51 for 4.5. If you really were running 4.4 stable at that voltage, it's not "nicely binned," it's "jackpot in the silicon lottery." Unless it's like my old 6800K that would run 4.4 at 1.3 and couldn't make 4.7 with 1.5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Kaveri is a very different beast than Richland and I really don't think any Kaveri quad would run a steady, stable 4.4 at that voltage.
> 
> Incidentally, after a bit more tweaking and remembering to apply the Windows 7 hotfix for K15h chips, my Passmark scores at 4.5 GHz are now 6891 and 1958 single core. This 860K at 4.5 on this board is a match for an i5-2550K or 3550 at stock. Keep this chip cool and prevent it from throttling and it's a fantastic value for the price it sells at. And yes, it's harder to OC an 860K than a G3258, but a maxed-out 860K is a better CPU than a G3258, also. A G3258 can't match the all-around performance of an Ivy or Sandy quad-core no matter what you do. This chip can.


Thank you for that detailed reply!

Turns out that AMD Overdrive actually doesn't update the voltage on the chips properly. I was running the voltage at around 1.4v I think, but I believe the chip was throttling since Passmark scores didn't update.

Anyways, I think I might be able to sell off the G3258 + H97-E/CSM that I got in exchange for the 860K setup that I had earlier.

Would the A88XM-PLUS be a good choice for overclocking the 860K? It's $94.99 at Newegg Canada, and Memory Express can price match it down to $93.99.

They also have the A88XM GAMING for $119.99, but would that $15 difference be noticeable if I'm just trying to OC the 860K to 4.4/4.5GHz with a Hyper 212? I'm trying to stick with the cheapest board capable of driving a decent OC with my 860K without the purchase of additional heatsinks or thermal pads.

Here the list of FM2+ motherboards that Memory Express carries - http://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/Motherboards

I'm pretty much limited to a few since I have a mATX Fractal Design Core 1500.. they have an open box GA-F2A85X-UP4 for $48! (although I'm not sure if it supports the newer 860K)

Either that I or I upgrade to a full ATX build again for more motherboard choices, but I rather not if it's possible.

P.S. What performance increase do you think we will see with the 960K?


----------



## DannyDK

The Asus Plus board is good enough for 4.4ghz i know because i had it once, dont know if the MSI would be better though.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> The Asus Plus board is good enough for 4.4ghz i know because i had it once, dont know if the MSI would be better though.


OK, because the problem with my old Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H was the lack of VRM heatsinks.

The A88XM-PLUS/CSM looks to have a heatsink on the VRM, but they don't seem to be touching directly..?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> OK, because the problem with my old Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H was the lack of VRM heatsinks.
> 
> The A88XM-PLUS/CSM looks to have a heatsink on the VRM, but they don't seem to be touching directly..?


Actually they are touching the VRM directly or have thermal tape between them. Are you thinking those square objects next to the heatsink is the VRM? Because those are the inductors, or at least those aren't the VRM chips. Also other things might be different between the A88XM-Plus/CSM but both that and your previous mobo F2A88XM-D3H have 4+2 Power Phases. Unless Asus Digi 4+2 is superior you may not get better results. I don't have first hand experience with the Asus board but with the F2A88XM-D3H you can add small heatsinks of your own and cool them with a fan and you should get decent overclocks if your chip isn't horrible.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Actually they are touching the VRM directly or have thermal tape between them. Are you thinking those square objects next to the heatsink is the VRM? Because those are the inductors, or at least those aren't the VRM chips. Also other things might be different between the A88XM-Plus/CSM but both that and your previous mobo F2A88XM-D3H have 4+2 Power Phases. Unless Asus Digi 4+2 is superior you may not get better results. I don't have first hand experience with the Asus board but with the F2A88XM-D3H you can add small heatsinks of your own and cool them with a fan and you should get decent overclocks if your chip isn't horrible.


Oh, I see. I thought those squares were VRMs/power phases?

Anyways, with the heatsink on the VRM, it should prevent the throttling issues I had before, correct?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Oh, I see. I thought those squares were VRMs/power phases?
> 
> Anyways, with the heatsink on the VRM, it should prevent the throttling issues I had before, correct?


Probably. Once again I don't own the Asus board so I have no clue how well they will perform. From my experience Asus will perform pretty well as long as they actually work (not broken). Did you ever try having just a fan pointed at the VRMs to keep them much cooler? I'm selling my F2A88XM-D3H soon but my experience with it wasn't that bad because I didn't start overclocking until I added small heatsinks and fan to the VRM. I agree with your older post that it's annoying you can't really input the voltage manually in the F2A88XM-D3H. As long as you cool the VRM and have a pretty nice cooler for your CPU OCing an 860K 4.5GHz should be pretty easy on pretty much any motherboard with 4+2 power phase and higher.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Probably. Once again I don't own the Asus board so I have no clue how well they will perform. From my experience Asus will perform pretty well as long as they actually work (not broken). Did you ever try having just a fan pointed at the VRMs to keep them much cooler? I'm selling my F2A88XM-D3H soon but my experience with it wasn't that bad because I didn't start overclocking until I added small heatsinks and fan to the VRM. I agree with your older post that it's annoying you can't really input the voltage manually in the F2A88XM-D3H. As long as you cool the VRM and have a pretty nice cooler for your CPU OCing an 860K 4.5GHz should be pretty easy on pretty much any motherboard with 4+2 power phase and higher.


Yep..

Coming from an Intel system, overclocking the 860K last time around was much more complex.

I couldn't dial in manual voltages, only offsets.. had to use Overdrive to report correct thermals.. and for some reason the chip always performed like a stock chip despite being overclocked to a modest 4.2GHz with adequate thermal margins.

I never tried pointing at a fan at the VRM. If I had to in order to overclock it, I would've just exchanged it for a new board.

Perhaps I will have better luck with the ASUS board (which UEFI BIOS I've grown fond of), although the MSI one at $119.99 has great reviews and cooling.

Will wait for more input as I won't be going to Memory Express until later in the afternoon tomorrow, but I appreciate your comments.

EDIT: Just read this review comparing the A88XM-PLUS with the F2A88XM-D3H - http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-a88xm-plus-gigabyte-ga-f2a88xm-d3h_6.html#sect0 - where they also have troubles overclocking with the GB board. I am not alone!

EDIT2: Reading the comments in that above link - http://www.xbitlabs.com/discussion/89051.html - one commenter states "Both of these mobos FAIL, IMO. It doesn't matter what the reviewer thinks, PC enthusiasts are going to want to overclock FM2+ mobos to get the most bang for the buck. APUs can definitely benefit from overclocking. These two mobos are half-baked crap rushed to marked, very typical of Asus." Should I just get the MSI one in that case? Blah, I just don't want to buy a second FM2+ motherboard to have it give me the same troubles the GB one did.

EDIT3: Turns out the MIR for the MSI A88XM Gaming is not only limited to NCIX, but Canada-wide. I think I'll just be safe and go with that one. $107 after MIR versus the $95 for the A88XM-PLUS seems like a no-brainer! Damn, excited, haha.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Oh, I see. I thought those squares were VRMs/power phases?
> 
> Anyways, with the heatsink on the VRM, it should prevent the throttling issues I had before, correct?


A _VRM_ is the entire power delivery/regulation system, when people refer to "cooling the VRM's" it's actually just the MOSFETs underneath the heatsink that are requiring cooling.
VRMs on a modern motherboard typically consist of MOSFETs (small, flat, black squares with visible connection to the PCB), Chokes (typically the larger cubes or oblongs on some motherboards) and Capacitors (the cylindrical objects).

The MOSFETs are usually (and preferably) hidden underneath the heatsink, heatisinks in the case of your pictured motherboard are covering the MOSFETs, others will extend over the Chokes, not to cool them, but for a larger area of mass for which the heat can dissipate and tailored also for aesthetics.

A _Power Phase_ is typically a small grouping of MOSFETS, a Choke and Capacitors, you are correct that by counting the Chokes (the larger cubes), you can usually ascertain the Phases of a motherboard.
There are "usually" one or two phases supplying the RAM (one for older and weaker motherboards that don't require as much, typically), with the vast majority going to the CPU, it's not always the case however where a 12 phase motherboard will be a "10+2", as two others are supplying other things instead, so it'd be a "12 phase, 8+2+2", purely just as a vague example.

Usually, 8 phases are "6+2", 10 phases are "8+2", 6 phases are "4+2". I say usually, but as I mentioned, it's not always the case.









Simply adding heatsinks to exposed MOSFETs can greatly assist in their dissipation of heat, and thus less throttling, longer lifetime etc. Be they the recommended Enzotech, other copper or aluminium heatsinks (stuck down with thermal tape), or a fan blowing onto them.

This post isn't meant as anything negative BTW, it's just good to know these things, hopefully just an interesting and cool tidbit.









(This is just a rough bit of information for those that don't fully know the components is all, feel free to correct any mistakes I've made)


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> EDIT: Just read this review comparing the A88XM-PLUS with the F2A88XM-D3H - http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-a88xm-plus-gigabyte-ga-f2a88xm-d3h_6.html#sect0 - where they also have troubles overclocking with the GB board. I am not alone!
> 
> EDIT2: Reading the comments in that above link - http://www.xbitlabs.com/discussion/89051.html - one commenter states "Both of these mobos FAIL, IMO. It doesn't matter what the reviewer thinks, PC enthusiasts are going to want to overclock FM2+ mobos to get the most bang for the buck. APUs can definitely benefit from overclocking. These two mobos are half-baked crap rushed to marked, very typical of Asus." Should I just get the MSI one in that case? Blah, I just don't want to buy a second FM2+ motherboard to have it give me the same troubles the GB one did.
> 
> EDIT3: Turns out the MIR for the MSI A88XM Gaming is not only limited to NCIX, but Canada-wide. I think I'll just be safe and go with that one. $107 after MIR versus the $95 for the A88XM-PLUS seems like a no-brainer! Damn, excited, haha.


I did read that review you linked after I purchased the motherboard back in Jan of last year. I guess I got a lucky F2A88XM-D3H board with my stable OCs up to 4.7GHz as far as Prime95. I wouldn't call it quite lucky as the sound was defective on the motherboard. Only benchmarks ran on the 860K was Cinebench 11.5 and 15. If the buyer wants me to put the PC together before sale I may run the 860K OC on IBT this time but the H100i is now in my 8350 rig so I don't think I can OC that high with a CM Hyper TX3.

Cinebench 11.5
3.7GHz (3.88/1.15)
4.4GHz (3.89/1.16)
4.5GHz (4.20/1.17)
4.7GHz (4.42/1.22)

Cinebench 15
3.7GHz (340/X)
4.4GHz (342/105)
4.5GHz (369/106)
4.7GHz (387/111)

Anyway yes I have heard a lot of good things about the A88XM-Gaming. Probably the best Micro-ATX mobo for FM2+. Good luck.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Would the A88XM-PLUS be a good choice for overclocking the 860K? It's $94.99 at Newegg Canada, and Memory Express can price match it down to $93.99.
> 
> They also have the A88XM GAMING for $119.99, but would that $15 difference be noticeable if I'm just trying to OC the 860K to 4.4/4.5GHz with a Hyper 212? I'm trying to stick with the cheapest board capable of driving a decent OC with my 860K without the purchase of additional heatsinks or thermal pads.
> 
> P.S. What performance increase do you think we will see with the 960K?


I'm not really familiar with the mATX A88X ASUS boards, so I'll let someone else handle that one. I do know they are 4+2 phase boards, so they're probably not going to OC as well as the A88X-PRO, which is 6+2. Unfortunately, AMD platforms on anything less than full ATX don't usually get any enthusiast features.









I've heard good things about the MSI board, but again, I don't have any experience with it myself.

The "960K," or whatever they call it, probably won't have any IPC improvement. It will probably just be a refreshed Kaveri on an improved 28nm process, in the same way that Richland was a refreshed Trinity that could clock higher. I would expect it to be the same chip under the hood, but hit clocks a few hundred MHz higher than an 860K. And we probably won't see it for a while. When the Kaveri refresh drops, I'm sure we'll only see the 7850K's successor at first. They won't release the Athlon version for a few months, both to sell as many A10's as they can and so they can stockpile enough chips with bum GPU units to turn into Athlons.


----------



## RaduZ

I have that board (Asus A88XM-plus) and it has a solid VRM for a 4+2 design, my mosfet heatsink sits at ~62C in prime95 and the caps dont go above 76C all that at 1.456V with High LLC.

The thing that I dont like at this board is that the voltage regulation is done via offset mode and that coupled with the difference in the voltage between bios and cpuz just drives me nuts. Thats my only problem with this board.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I'm not really familiar with the mATX A88X ASUS boards, so I'll let someone else handle that one. I do know they are 4+2 phase boards, so they're probably not going to OC as well as the A88X-PRO, which is 6+2. Unfortunately, AMD platforms on anything less than full ATX don't usually get any enthusiast features.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard good things about the MSI board, but again, I don't have any experience with it myself.
> 
> The "960K," or whatever they call it, probably won't have any IPC improvement. It will probably just be a refreshed Kaveri on an improved 28nm process, in the same way that Richland was a refreshed Trinity that could clock higher. I would expect it to be the same chip under the hood, but hit clocks a few hundred MHz higher than an 860K. And we probably won't see it for a while. When the Kaveri refresh drops, I'm sure we'll only see the 7850K's successor at first. They won't release the Athlon version for a few months, both to sell as many A10's as they can and so they can stockpile enough chips with bum GPU units to turn into Athlons.


It took a pretty long while after the A10-7850K was released to see the 860K.


----------



## bernieyee

Great! So I picked up the MSI A88XM Gaming and another 860K (the same one I returned to be exact) and it's currently running at 4.5GHz + 1.4v set by OC Genie.

I haven't tested the stability yet, but I imagine I will be able to fine tune it later!


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Great! So I picked up the MSI A88XM Gaming and another 860K (the same one I returned to be exact) and it's currently running at 4.5GHz + 1.4v set by OC Genie.
> 
> I haven't tested the stability yet, but I imagine I will be able to fine tune it later!


Looking good. Can't wait to hear good news


----------



## bernieyee

So far so good!

4.5GHz seems stable at 1.4v after IBT of 20 outputs at standard stress level.

Temperatures never exceeded 60 degrees using an Enermax Black Twister and with case fans on medium settings (using fan controller included with the Fractal Design Core 1500).

Ran PassMark out of curiosity, but I noticed that my scores are abysmal compared to jsc1973's scores of 6719/1956 at identical clock speed. I'm getting around 6000/1775.

Cinebench R15 on the other hand gives me 370 which is line with xKrNMBoYx's results.

EDIT: I have disabled OC Genie and am currently running a manual CPU overclock of 4.5GHz with the NB at 2.0GHz. Voltages set to automatic as I can't figure out the offsets. The motherboard automatically dials a voltage of around 1.42v for the VCORE, but I'm not sure the voltage for the NB (although I'm not too worried as temperatures are fine). Anything else I should do and test for? Would disabling power states and setting a static voltage ensure better performance?

EDIT2: I forgot to note that I'm using a single stick of 4GB RAM, I guess dual channel would play a bit of a role in increasing the overall performance of the system when running synthetic benchmarks.


----------



## Digitalwolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> EDIT: I have disabled OC Genie and am currently running a manual CPU overclock of 4.5GHz with the NB at 2.0GHz. Voltages set to automatic as I can't figure out the offsets. The motherboard automatically dials a voltage of around 1.42v for the VCORE, but I'm not sure the voltage for the NB (although I'm not too worried as temperatures are fine). Anything else I should do and test for? Would disabling power states and setting a static voltage ensure better performance?


When you are in bios and scrolling past the voltages for cpu/nb... if you click on the auto setting you'll get a relatively long list of "offsets". You will have various negatives options until you hit a 0 offset and then a positive range. Just depends on if you want to try running less voltage or have stability issues and want to try to add some.

*edited to add* Maybe I've missed something with the MSI a88xm Gaming.. but that's the only form of voltage(nb/cpu) control I've seen.. is the offset range along with whatever the bios has decided to use. As opposed to the other boards I have where I can actually put in a "static" vcore (or other voltage).


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> So far so good!
> 
> 4.5GHz seems stable at 1.4v after IBT of 20 outputs at standard stress level.
> .


Try running Prime95.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> So far so good!
> 
> 4.5GHz seems stable at 1.4v after IBT of 20 outputs at standard stress level.
> 
> Temperatures never exceeded 60 degrees using an Enermax Black Twister and with case fans on medium settings (using fan controller included with the Fractal Design Core 1500).
> 
> Ran PassMark out of curiosity, but I noticed that my scores are abysmal compared to jsc1973's scores of 6719/1956 at identical clock speed. I'm getting around 6000/1775.


Run with CPU-Z or AMD OverDrive active during the benchmark run, something that gives real-time CPU speed readings. You may be throttling. You have to make sure that the chip stays at 4.5 GHz during the whole run to get the best score. Kaveri chips seem to throttle even when there's really no reason for them to do so, and different motherboards require different settings to keep them from doing it. Some quit throttling as soon as Turbo/CPB gets turned off, and some require that all p-states be turned off, too.

It could simply be that 1.4v isn't enough to run that chip at 4.5 GHz under heavy load, so it dials back the speed a bit. That's a good motherboard, and if you're running a straight 4.5, your benchmarks shouldn't be all that much different from mine. Those are scores you'd expect to see around 4 GHz.

If you're running Windows 7, make sure you apply the hotfixes for the CPU scheduler, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594, and core parking, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2646060. Apparently, Microsoft doesn't auto-deliver those fixes on K15h-based systems even now, and my multi-core score went up about 200 points as soon as I installed these. If you have Win 8.x or Linux, it's not an issue (and K15h chips are full-on beasts when running on Linux anyway). Still is if you're on 7, though.

One thing I like about this motherboard is that it's able to handle this chip properly. Once I switched off Turbo and hard-set the multiplier and vcore in the BIOS, I was able to get a steady 4.5 GHz and 1.525v (1.51 actual) with the chip under load, and still have it run in lower p-states if it doesn't need to run at the full 4.5.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Had some thoughts after tinkering and testing, and lots of reading.....

Okay, so based on all the performance comparisons between x4 deneb and FX4300, most benchmarks will show an overclocked deneb basically thrashing the FX chip, so
I wondered if the old Propus based athlon would also give these new athlon an ass kicking too......

I made the assumption that they would likely have the same performance margins, since neither have L3 cache....

Was interested in all of this because my 9 year old son's rig uses an athlon x3 unlocked to an x4 phenom II (again, no L3)) and I am slowly working on trying to get 3.8-4GHz stable.
In order to do this, I need to get some heatsinks on his VRM/mosfets, and also upgrade his power supply possibly (have to do this in order to overclock his 7950 any further anyways).

Here is a firestrike run I did at 3.75Ghz, and compared to a 750k @ 4.7GHz, with graphics clocks as close as I could find on the results list, the results are astounding in my opinion.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/3771923/fs/3162041

Am I missing something (besides power and instruction sets)? Is the new athlon that far behind the old one?








If I get this thing to 4GHz, and clock the 7950 up (some quick testing in my system with more juice gave me a seemingly stable 1100/1500 OC), I am thinking this thing should pull in an easy 7k points in firestrike. I know that's not a mind boggling score, but for hardware this old, and for what it is, I was really surpised....








I have $200 in the whole rig!


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Had some thoughts after tinkering and testing, and lots of reading.....
> 
> Okay, so based on all the performance comparisons between x4 deneb and FX4300, most benchmarks will show an overclocked deneb basically thrashing the FX chip, so
> I wondered if the old Propus based athlon would also give these new athlon an ass kicking too......
> 
> I made the assumption that they would likely have the same performance margins, since neither have L3 cache....


Actually, that's not a good assumption to make. The L3 cache makes little difference on K15h architecture chips. It's only there because it does improve performance on server/workstation applications, and all Opteron and FX chips are identical other than the name they stamp on them and the socket they use. AMD K10.5 architecture chips are very different animals. The L3 does make a significant difference in normal use patterns on K10.5. Athlons of that generation aren't comparable to Phenom II's at the same clock speeds.

A Propus Athlon would lose a benchmarking showdown with an 860K, and if you started overclocking, it would be a rout. A Propus has about the same IPC as a Core 2 Duo, and most of them are mediocre overclockers.
Quote:


> Was interested in all of this because my 9 year old son's rig uses an athlon x3 unlocked to an x4 phenom II (again, no L3))


When you unlocked the chip to a Phenom II, you also unlocked its L3 cache. If the L3 hadn't worked, it would have reported as an Athlon II X4.
Quote:


> Here is a firestrike run I did at 3.75Ghz, and compared to a 750k @ 4.7GHz, with graphics clocks as close as I could find on the results list, the results are astounding in my opinion.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/3771923/fs/3162041
> 
> Am I missing something (besides power and instruction sets)? Is the new athlon that far behind the old one?


Some games like Phenom II better. Apparently, that test likes Phenom II a LOT better. Other games and gaming benchmarks will favor FX and Athlon. Looking at the detailed scores, it looks like the difference is that the Phenom II is computing the physics for that test better than the 750K does.

I wish I could run the test and see if an 860K can do better, but both your GPU's are better than my 6970, so it wouldn't be an accurate frame of reference. I score about 3200 on Fire Strike.

Anyway, you shouldn't be all that surprised. Phenom II does have a higher IPC than Piledriver core chips, and remains a viable platform for gaming even today.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Actually, that's not a good assumption to make. The L3 cache makes little difference on K15h architecture chips. It's only there because it does improve performance on server/workstation applications, and all Opteron and FX chips are identical other than the name they stamp on them and the socket they use. AMD K10.5 architecture chips are very different animals. The L3 does make a significant difference in normal use patterns on K10.5. Athlons of that generation aren't comparable to Phenom II's at the same clock speeds.
> 
> A Propus Athlon would lose a benchmarking showdown with an 860K, and if you started overclocking, it would be a rout. A Propus has about the same IPC as a Core 2 Duo, and most of them are mediocre overclockers.
> When you unlocked the chip to a Phenom II, you also unlocked its L3 cache. If the L3 hadn't worked, it would have reported as an Athlon II X4.
> Some games like Phenom II better. Apparently, that test likes Phenom II a LOT better. Other games and gaming benchmarks will favor FX and Athlon. Looking at the detailed scores, it looks like the difference is that the Phenom II is computing the physics for that test better than the 750K does.
> 
> I wish I could run the test and see if an 860K can do better, but both your GPU's are better than my 6970, so it wouldn't be an accurate frame of reference. I score about 3200 on Fire Strike.
> 
> Anyway, you shouldn't be all that surprised. Phenom II does have a higher IPC than Piledriver core chips, and remains a viable platform for gaming even today.


Actually, when I unlocked, it did NOT unlock the L3, it's a very common thing... it still refers to the chip as a phenom ii B45 in CPU-Z, but clearly shows code name propus, and no L3 cache.
Also, you can still use the firestrike score as a CPU performance reference, that's why I like it.
Look at the graphics, physics, and combined separately, and it will give you an indication of how your CPU does in the test.

In this particular test, it hands it a solid ass whooping, even clocked 1GHz slower... that's a big surprise in my opinion.

Also beats it in cinebench, PCMark 7 and 8...... still not surprised?

I can't find any good overclocked gaming reviews for the 750/860k, but I'd be glad to run some stuff and compare to anyone running this chip with similar GPU.
It's not to bash the new chip, it's mainly to let anyone know who is considering on, that if they are on anything quad core AMD has made in the last 6 years, there is no point.

Also found this after some digging:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/piledriver-k10-cpu-overclocking,3584.html

The old Athlon @ 3.6GHz beats it, and in some cases, destroys the 750k in almost every test. The 750k @ 4.3 puts up a better showing, so I think my assumption that this old propus at 3.8GHz+ is going to perform as good or better than the newer chip at 4.4+ GHz, is a good assumption....

Just a heads up to anyone on the old x4's, that there is no point in going to newer AMD quad core offerings, so either get an older CPU with more cores that works in your board, or switch platforms.

I see no issues with snatching these cheapies up for new builds though.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> I can't find any good overclocked gaming reviews for the 750/860k,


About the best information you'll probably find is further back in this thread.

You're making a mistake by lumping in the old Trinity 750K with the newer Kaveri 860K, though. They're really not comparable. Kaveri's floating point and single-core performance is demonstrably superior to Trinity/Richland. Here's one example, in Cinebench 11.5:



The 860K is slightly ahead of the A10-6800K (its Piledriver cousin with an onboard GPU) even spotting the older chip a 500 MHz clock advantage. Put them on equal clocks, and Kaveri leads by 14.3 percent.

As far as single-core goes, Passmark single-core rating for the 6800K at 4.4 is 1630. It's 1698 for an 860K at the stock 3.7. Go to 4.5, and you get 1956. Kaveri wins by 17.3 percent once you adjust for the slight difference in clock speed. The physics test also had a significant difference, Kaveri winning by 11.8 percent.

I ran a series of 3DMark and 3DMark11 tests farther back up the thread, and they show the same thing--the Steamroller core is significantly better in most situations. I don't have a Deneb chip anymore to see how it would match up, but there's no way it beats the 860K at 4.5 unless you're using benchmarks that are extremely FPU-reliant and can't use AVX. Those Cinebench scores show what happens in that scenario, where you can see the 8350, with 300 MHz more clock and two extra cores, barely beats the 1035T at 3.71.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Actually, when I unlocked, it did NOT unlock the L3, it's a very common thing... it still refers to the chip as a phenom ii B45 in CPU-Z, but clearly shows code name propus, and no L3 cache.
> Also, you can still use the firestrike score as a CPU performance reference, that's why I like it.
> Look at the graphics, physics, and combined separately, and it will give you an indication of how your CPU does in the test.
> 
> In this particular test, it hands it a solid ass whooping, even clocked 1GHz slower... that's a big surprise in my opinion.
> 
> Also beats it in cinebench, PCMark 7 and 8...... still not surprised?
> 
> I can't find any good overclocked gaming reviews for the 750/860k, but I'd be glad to run some stuff and compare to anyone running this chip with similar GPU.
> It's not to bash the new chip, it's mainly to let anyone know who is considering on, that if they are on anything quad core AMD has made in the last 6 years, there is no point.
> 
> Also found this after some digging:
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/piledriver-k10-cpu-overclocking,3584.html
> 
> The old Athlon @ 3.6GHz beats it, and in some cases, destroys the 750k in almost every test. The 750k @ 4.3 puts up a better showing, so I think my assumption that this old propus at 3.8GHz+ is going to perform as good or better than the newer chip at 4.4+ GHz, is a good assumption....
> 
> Just a heads up to anyone on the old x4's, that there is no point in going to newer AMD quad core offerings, so either get an older CPU with more cores that works in your board, or switch platforms.
> 
> I see no issues with snatching these cheapies up for new builds though.


Yes, until we can get pretty much exact builds compared to each other it's hard to say which one is better, but I agree that I see little point in people with Phenom/Athlon II X4 trying to 'upgrade' to a Piledriver/Kaveri Quad-Core. Only Quad-Core worth upgrading to would be going to Intel. For AMD you probably want an upgrade in the number of cores. If I can just get my hands on a 400W PSU with a 6-Pin connector and a HDD I could set up the 860K again to run some benchmarks.

When you look at Techspots Gaming Reviews in general the FX 4320 (4GHz) beats the Phenom II X4 980 (3.7GHz)/Phenom II x4 1090T (3.3GHz) in most of the games at stock speeds. If the Phenoms were OCed I feel that would bring different results. DA:I, FC4, WD, The Crew, Thief, B:AO are a few game the FX 4320 beats the Phenom II X4 980. Games like Alien: Isolation, Metro: Redux shows the Phenom winning by a little. WD shows a 3.1GHz A8-7600 beating barely beating the Phenom II X4 980. What I see from this is a Phenom OCed will match and sometimes beat the piledriver/steamroller quad-cores but seeing that the Phenom II X4 at 3.7GHz is losing it would need to be at 4GHz higher. But then if you overclock the piledriver/steamroller they would have the lead again. So in general my belief is that the new AMD Quads are better that the Phenoms, not by much but enough to feel good buying AMD Piledriver/Steamroller but not enough to call it a upgrade.

.:edit:.

Oh additionally while Phenom II X4/X6 was really close with the FX 4320 on Dragon Age Inquisition on High Settings at 720P (3-6FPS) when the game was tested on Ultra at 1200P the difference was a little larger at 6-8FPS

.:edit:.

I found one review with 3DMark 11 for the 860K at stock and 4.1GHz. Shows scores of 6501 and 6654. NVM this is Futuremark and you used Fire Strike. Fire Strike of the 860K at stock and 4.1GHz with a 270X is 4922 and 5062. So my guess is that with a 7950/280 the 860K should get higher numbers

http://benchmarks-tests.com/reviews/processors/amd_athlon_x4_860k/gaming_benchmarks_futuremark.php

.:edit:.

The highest Firemark score I see for a 760K and a 7950 is a 4/4.1GHz 760K with a 925MHz 7950 with a score of 6133


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Run with CPU-Z or AMD OverDrive active during the benchmark run, something that gives real-time CPU speed readings. You may be throttling. You have to make sure that the chip stays at 4.5 GHz during the whole run to get the best score. Kaveri chips seem to throttle even when there's really no reason for them to do so, and different motherboards require different settings to keep them from doing it. Some quit throttling as soon as Turbo/CPB gets turned off, and some require that all p-states be turned off, too.
> 
> It could simply be that 1.4v isn't enough to run that chip at 4.5 GHz under heavy load, so it dials back the speed a bit. That's a good motherboard, and if you're running a straight 4.5, your benchmarks shouldn't be all that much different from mine. Those are scores you'd expect to see around 4 GHz.
> 
> If you're running Windows 7, make sure you apply the hotfixes for the CPU scheduler, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594, and core parking, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2646060. Apparently, Microsoft doesn't auto-deliver those fixes on K15h-based systems even now, and my multi-core score went up about 200 points as soon as I installed these. If you have Win 8.x or Linux, it's not an issue (and K15h chips are full-on beasts when running on Linux anyway). Still is if you're on 7, though.
> 
> One thing I like about this motherboard is that it's able to handle this chip properly. Once I switched off Turbo and hard-set the multiplier and vcore in the BIOS, I was able to get a steady 4.5 GHz and 1.525v (1.51 actual) with the chip under load, and still have it run in lower p-states if it doesn't need to run at the full 4.5.


Ok, I was running Core Temp when I was doing IBT and it was always clocked in at 4.5GHz across all four cores, so I don't think that it was throttling.

I'll try raising the voltage to 1.5v and check again. Is 1.5v safe?

If that doesn't work, I'll try turning off some power saving options as well.

I am on Windows 8.1, so I don't think those hotfixes are applicable to me.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yes, until we can get pretty much exact builds compared to each other it's hard to say which one is better, but I agree that I see little point in people with Phenom/Athlon II X4 trying to 'upgrade' to a Piledriver/Kaveri Quad-Core. Only Quad-Core worth upgrading to would be going to Intel. For AMD you probably want an upgrade in the number of cores. If I can just get my hands on a 400W PSU with a 6-Pin connector and a HDD I could set up the 860K again to run some benchmarks.
> 
> When you look at Techspots Gaming Reviews in general the FX 4320 (4GHz) beats the Phenom II X4 980 (3.7GHz)/Phenom II x4 1090T (3.3GHz) in most of the games at stock speeds. If the Phenoms were OCed I feel that would bring different results. DA:I, FC4, WD, The Crew, Thief, B:AO are a few game the FX 4320 beats the Phenom II X4 980. Games like Alien: Isolation, Metro: Redux shows the Phenom winning by a little. WD shows a 3.1GHz A8-7600 beating barely beating the Phenom II X4 980. What I see from this is a Phenom OCed will match and sometimes beat the piledriver/steamroller quad-cores but seeing that the Phenom II X4 at 3.7GHz is losing it would need to be at 4GHz higher. But then if you overclock the piledriver/steamroller they would have the lead again. So in general my belief is that the new AMD Quads are better that the Phenoms, not by much but enough to feel good buying AMD Piledriver/Steamroller but not enough to call it a upgrade.
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> Oh additionally while Phenom II X4/X6 was really close with the FX 4320 on Dragon Age Inquisition on High Settings at 720P (3-6FPS) when the game was tested on Ultra at 1200P the difference was a little larger at 6-8FPS
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> I found one review with 3DMark 11 for the 860K at stock and 4.1GHz. Shows scores of 6501 and 6654. NVM this is Futuremark and you used Fire Strike. Fire Strike of the 860K at stock and 4.1GHz with a 270X is 4922 and 5062. So my guess is that with a 7950/280 the 860K should get higher numbers
> 
> http://benchmarks-tests.com/reviews/processors/amd_athlon_x4_860k/gaming_benchmarks_futuremark.php
> 
> .:edit:.
> 
> The highest Firemark score I see for a 760K and a 7950 is a 4/4.1GHz 760K with a 925MHz 7950 with a score of 6133


Those benchmarks show the athlon x3 and the stock 860k performing about the same in games


----------



## damric

Ouch, my 3.8GHz Phenom II 955 still outscored my 860K at 4.5GHz in 3Dmark11 physics: 4887 to 4593.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/169665

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9254797

My Athlon 760K @4.8GHz fell in the middle at 4677.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7899656

If we get another polar vortex I can try clocking my 860K higher again. That thing really liked sub freezing ambients.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Ouch, my 3.8GHz Phenom II 955 still outscored my 860K at 4.5GHz in 3Dmark11 physics: 4887 to 4593.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/169665
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9254797
> 
> My Athlon 760K @4.8GHz fell in the middle at 4677.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7899656
> 
> If we get another polar vortex I can try clocking my 860K higher again. That thing really liked sub freezing ambients.


Do you have any firestrikes on that same group? Would love to see those too. Mainly for performance comparison to myself... Again, I'm not trying to start a war, or go against the grain, i just find it interesting that these old chips appear to do as well in games as the new ones, but at lower clocks?!

Edit:
Here is the latest firestrike @ 3.8GHz with 7950 @ 1050/1350
CPU is settled in nice here, but I am still working on OC for the GPU. Very power limited on here right now...
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/5690642

Cinebench 11.5 on the way soon too....


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Do you have any firestrikes on that same group? Would love to see those too. Mainly for performance comparison to myself... Again, I'm not trying to start a war, or go against the grain, i just find it interesting that these old chips appear to do as well in games as the new ones, but at lower clocks?!
> 
> Edit:
> Here is the latest firestrike @ 3.8GHz with 7950 @ 1050/1350
> CPU is settled in nice here, but I am still working on OC for the GPU. Very power limited on here right now...
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/5690642
> 
> Cinebench 11.5 on the way soon too....


No it was ~2009-2010 when I had my Phenom IIs so no only up to 3DMark11.

I have some more #DMark11 scores from my vault though:

Athlon II 620 @3.6GHz only scored 3857
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/6196860

FX-4100 @4.9GHz scored 4775
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3166172

1090T @4GHz scored 6869
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/907505

550C2 @3GHz scored 2140
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/549521

B50 @3.6GHz scored 4711
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/600202

I'm curious what my Haswell i3 can do.

Only looking at Physics (CPU) score here.


----------



## DannyDK

So do the old ones have stronger IPC then?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> So do the old ones have stronger IPC then?


The older architecture is better at the older bench. That's about what I read into this. That physics test is FPU intensive, and the newer architechture needs AVX instructions to push FLOPS.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Those benchmarks show the athlon x3 and the stock 860k performing about the same in games


Yes but those benchmarks compare when using an R7 250. The Phenom/Athlons become a more of a bottleneck when stronger GPUs come into play.


----------



## bernieyee

Ok, I have no idea what's going on.

The clocks never throttle, yet my PassMark scores are horrible.

Thermal margins are great, Turbo disabled, Cool n' Quiet disabled, and C states are disabled.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Ok, I have no idea what's going on.
> 
> The clocks never throttle, yet my PassMark scores are horrible.
> 
> Thermal margins are great, Turbo disabled, Cool n' Quiet disabled, and C states are disabled.


Are there any APM options you didn't turn off


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Are there any APM options you didn't turn off


I don't see any APM options within BIOS, but I have disabled Turbo (which in turn disables APM according to Google?)



I also noticed that Core Temp sometimes displays the frequency of cores as half. So even though CPU-Z and Overdrive displays 4.4GHz, it shows up as 2194.72MHz (99.76 x 22.0) in Core Temp. Is this just a bug?

Also, is the voltage supposed to stay constant? It fluctuates a lot in CPU-Z. With the settings above, it goes between 1.44 to as high as 1.47


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Ok, I have no idea what's going on.
> 
> The clocks never throttle, yet my PassMark scores are horrible.
> 
> Thermal margins are great, Turbo disabled, Cool n' Quiet disabled, and C states are disabled.


Are you still using single channel RAM? I'm running dual channel DDR3-2400CL9 on my 860K so there is likely a huge difference there.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Are you still using single channel RAM? I'm running dual channel DDR3-2400CL9 on my 860K so there is likely a huge difference there.


I'll put another stick in and we will see.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yes but those benchmarks compare when using an R7 250. The Phenom/Athlons become a more of a bottleneck when stronger GPUs come into play.


Yeah, I wonder why they didn't throw a 270 in there, that would of been interesting.
Either way, something about the physics and combined tests in firestrike, as well as many games, allow the k10.5 to shine still....
Compression seems to be where it gets creamed the most, but everything else in the benchmarks is pretty marginal when comparing the two gens.

I'll let it go after this, but just wanted to put one more funny comparison up, ROFL...
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/3686984/fs/3919869

I take that with a grain of salt of course, but those are real numbers for a stock 6300!

This however, is NOT taken with a grain of salt....
http://www.techspot.com/review/917-far-cry-4-benchmarks/page5.html

Looks like ubisoft is only putting 4 threads to use on FC4 (what my son and I are currently playing).... that's a shame!

C3 does much better with core though::
http://www.techspot.com/review/642-crysis-3-performance/page6.html

That 3.7 phenom is right in the mix in both though, which is what I was getting at with all of this to begin with.
I got a case, CPU, nice air cooler, 8GB RAM, and a PSU for $60 on CL, bought a $45 Asus matx board to replace the failed one in that system, slapped a 7950 I got for $60 on CL in there, and BAM, it's gaming in the "mainstream"








It was my boy's Christmas gift..... worked out awesome.

If I were starting from scratch, and buying new (finance permitting), I probably would of gone with an 860K build, so I'm not knocking anybody's stuff at all. Just felt the need to share!


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Are you still using single channel RAM? I'm running dual channel DDR3-2400CL9 on my 860K so there is likely a huge difference there.


Putting in another stick of 4GB in dual channel raised my overall CPU score to 6350~ but my single thread still hovers around 1750..

Compared to the others, that's 10% of performance gone missing!


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Yeah, I wonder why they didn't throw a 270 in there, that would of been interesting.
> Either way, something about the physics and combined tests in firestrike, as well as many games, allow the k10.5 to shine still....
> Compression seems to be where it gets creamed the most, but everything else in the benchmarks is pretty marginal when comparing the two gens.
> 
> I'll let it go after this, but just wanted to put one more funny comparison up, ROFL...
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/3686984/fs/3919869
> 
> I take that with a grain of salt of course, but those are real numbers for a stock 6300!
> 
> This however, is NOT taken with a grain of salt....
> http://www.techspot.com/review/917-far-cry-4-benchmarks/page5.html
> 
> Looks like ubisoft is only putting 4 threads to use on FC4 (what my son and I are currently playing).... that's a shame!
> 
> C3 does much better with core though::
> http://www.techspot.com/review/642-crysis-3-performance/page6.html
> 
> That 3.7 phenom is right in the mix in both though, which is what I was getting at with all of this to begin with.
> I got a case, CPU, nice air cooler, 8GB RAM, and a PSU for $60 on CL, bought a $45 Asus matx board to replace the failed one in that system, slapped a 7950 I got for $60 on CL in there, and BAM, it's gaming in the "mainstream"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was my boy's Christmas gift..... worked out awesome.
> 
> If I were starting from scratch, and buying new (finance permitting), I probably would of gone with an 860K build, so I'm not knocking anybody's stuff at all. Just felt the need to share!


Yeah they're too close in game performance to call one a sure winner and loser. Honestly if people can get Phenom x4/x6 really really cheap compared to the FX and Athlon X4 I would and will still recommend them.


----------



## bernieyee

Ok, I think I am done with overclocking my 860K.

Currently set to 4.4GHz with auto voltage and NB set to stock. Doing manual voltage is tedious (are all FM2+ boards using offset rather than a static voltage like the Intel platform?) and even adding +0.03v would make my temps jump to 65 degrees (I just enjoy my current load temps of 50-55 degrees)

No throttling from what I can see in CoreTemp. When I was running 4.5GHz + 0.03v there was a slight throttle to 3.6GHz when temperatures got in the mid-60s.

Passed 20 linpacks, and one hour of Prime95. Will run 3 loops of x264 encoding to finish off the stability tests.

I know it's not that long, but my PC doesn't deal with any data sensitive stuff. If I do get a random BSOD, it's not a big deal and will be easy to diagnose.

I don't care about those extra 200 points in Passmark anymore, although getting that 1950 score in single thread would be nice. Maybe my 860K is gimped or something, whatever, lol.

Current Passmark score at 4.4GHz with dual channel DDR3-1600 = 6430/1730

Thanks for all the help that you guys have posted in this thread!

Only regret from this experience is that I probably could've gotten the same results with that F2A88XM-D3H board. What seemed to be a throttling issue is probably something to do with my CPU and not the motherboard as it can't seem to get the same Passmark score as everyone else.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> Ok, I think I am done with overclocking my 860K.
> 
> Currently set to 4.4GHz with auto voltage and NB set to stock. Doing manual voltage is tedious (are all FM2+ boards using offset rather than a static voltage like the Intel platform?) and even adding +0.03v would make my temps jump to 65 degrees (I just enjoy my current load temps of 50-55 degrees)
> 
> No throttling from what I can see in CoreTemp. When I was running 4.5GHz + 0.03v there was a slight throttle to 3.6GHz when temperatures got in the mid-60s.
> 
> Passed 20 linpacks, and one hour of Prime95. Will run 3 loops of x264 encoding to finish off the stability tests.
> 
> I know it's not that long, but my PC doesn't deal with any data sensitive stuff. If I do get a random BSOD, it's not a big deal and will be easy to diagnose.
> 
> I don't care about those extra 200 points in Passmark anymore, although getting that 1950 score in single thread would be nice. Maybe my 860K is gimped or something, whatever, lol.
> 
> Current Passmark score at 4.4GHz with dual channel DDR3-1600 = 6430/1730
> 
> Thanks for all the help that you guys have posted in this thread!
> 
> Only regret from this experience is that I probably could've gotten the same results with that F2A88XM-D3H board. What seemed to be a throttling issue is probably something to do with my CPU and not the motherboard as it can't seem to get the same Passmark score as everyone else.


Could be, my experience and headgear's experience with the F2A88XM-D3H was not as bad as yours I think. But no doubt there are some issues with throttling not due to heat but other reasons with a lot of the FM2+ boards. Probably was a mix of CPU and Mobo issues.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Could be, my experience and headgear's experience with the F2A88XM-D3H was not as bad as yours I think. But no doubt there are some issues with throttling not due to heat but other reasons with a lot of the FM2+ boards. Probably was a mix of CPU and Mobo issues.


Yes, overclocking on an Intel board is definitely less of a hassle.

Out of curiosity, I just ran a few quick benchmarks comparing with a stock 860K.



My result = 11.82 (8.7% increase)



My result = 3,590 (4% increase)



My result = 4.12 (14% increase)

For the slight headaches that I've suffered within the last week, the performance increase is pretty negligible. But on the bright side, I've learned a lot.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> For the slight headaches that I've suffered within the last week, the performance increase is pretty negligible. But on the bright side, I've learned a lot.


100% agree. I began OCing since the AM2 socket but I have to say that I learned the most while trying to OC the 860K and FX 8350. Through all the issues I had at first with these CPUs I can't even count all the things I've tried to do, researched, etc. For a few years I thought my 1055T could only get to 3.2GHz stable, after my experience with the 860K/8350 I was able to OC to 3.8GHz on same hardware. Only thing I lack is very little experience in OCing on the Intel platform. Last time OCed with Intel was with C2D/C2Q and i7 920. The 3770K was the newest and only unlocked CPU I had and I never OCed it. The Pentium G3258 might be a nice cheap CPU to get some experience of how they work before Skylake drops.


----------



## bernieyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> 100% agree. I began OCing since the AM2 socket but I have to say that I learned the most while trying to OC the 860K and FX 8350. Through all the issues I had at first with these CPUs I can't even count all the things I've tried to do, researched, etc. For a few years I thought my 1055T could only get to 3.2GHz stable, after my experience with the 860K/8350 I was able to OC to 3.8GHz on same hardware. Only thing I lack is very little experience in OCing on the Intel platform. Last time OCed with Intel was with C2D/C2Q and i7 920. The 3770K was the newest and only unlocked CPU I had and I never OCed it. The Pentium G3258 might be a nice cheap CPU to get some experience of how they work before Skylake drops.


I came from OC'ing on Intel, and it's much simpler especially with the G3258. All you have to do is change the multiplier and the voltage, haha.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bernieyee*
> 
> I came from OC'ing on Intel, and it's much simpler especially with the G3258. All you have to do is change the multiplier and the voltage, haha.


Awesome


----------



## DannyDK

I have a serious problem right now! My AMD rig (wich i just sold two days ago) wont boot, post or do anything, accept for the watercooler fan going completely bonkers, i meen runs fast ral fast, and that is about all that happens when you turn it on. Is it the waterpump or is it the 7850K that has had it? He/we removed the ram and plugged them back in, didnt help, took out the dgpu, didnt help, took out the battery and put it back in and still nothing. Anyone with noledge about how to solve the problem?


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I have a serious problem right now! My AMD rig (wich i just sold two days ago) wont boot, post or do anything, accept for the watercooler fan going completely bonkers, i meen runs fast ral fast, and that is about all that happens when you turn it on. Is it the waterpump or is it the 7850K that has had it? He/we removed the ram and plugged them back in, didnt help, took out the dgpu, didnt help, took out the battery and put it back in and still nothing. Anyone with noledge about how to solve the problem?


Sounds like the board crapping to me.....
CPU's seldom fail, boards fail all the time.
Are there any power indicators on the board, or error lights that you can see?

Definitely refer to the manual for light codes, beeps, etc (apparently it isn't beeping).
Maybe try booting with no RAM at all and see if it beeps, which means the board is at least acknowledging that there is no RAM installed.

The pump fan turning on means you are getting some power, but I wouldn't totally rule out the PSU either.
Try a different PSU and see if that works.
Also try disconnecting the PSU from the system and from the wall for a few minutes, then reconnecting everything.

Was the chip overvolted/clocked for a while? Is your board a pretty OC friendly board, or a budget board? Sometimes OC's on a low level MB can lead to cap/VRM failure.

Just some suggestions...
Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## DannyDK

It has been running at 4.4/4.5 with 1.5/1.55v for about 8-9 months, the board is Asrock Killer 4+2 phase and should be more than cappeable


----------



## DannyDK

I had for a while some little sound distortion when under load but it went away. So my friend admits that he had put in an old sata 2 (3gbs) hdd himself, would that be a problem with the satacontroler when everything else is sata 3 (6gbs). He also told me that all of a sutton he could not boot, so my guys is that he somehow f´ed up the board.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I don't think mixing sata ii and iii should be a problem. If he put in a problematic hdd maybe?


----------



## DannyDK

The drive was/is 7 or 8 years old and i dont know the state of it. Have read that on some boards there are jumpers that where needed and a jumper on the hdd should be switch, i dont know if that could have done something to the chipset or not.


----------



## IsaacM

I have an 860k in an MSI A88XM Gaming, I'm able to get stable 4.5Ghz @ 1.45 volts. I have AMD 2400Mhz ram, AMP autoed to this speed on this board, which is nice. The Asus board I had gave me all kinds of trouble with the ram.

The problem I'm having is I can't for the life of me budge my NB Voltage, and any change to the multiplier leads to immediate freeze in windows. Am I supposed to be able to up the NB Vdd with this chip or not? I had the same problem with the Asus board. I move it up, the Bios says I did, but the voltage continues at stock after a reboot. Anyone else have this problem?

BTW, this thread has been an invaluable resource. I read through the entire thing. Thanks, this seems to be the only place online to find any good info on this chip.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> I have an 860k in an MSI A88XM Gaming, I'm able to get stable 4.5Ghz @ 1.45 volts. I have AMD 2400Mhz ram, AMP autoed to this speed on this board, which is nice. The Asus board I had gave me all kinds of trouble with the ram.
> 
> The problem I'm having is I can't for the life of me budge my NB Voltage, and any change to the multiplier leads to immediate freeze in windows. Am I supposed to be able to up the NB Vdd with this chip or not? I had the same problem with the Asus board. I move it up, the Bios says I did, but the voltage continues at stock after a reboot. Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> BTW, this thread has been an invaluable resource. I read through the entire thing. Thanks, this seems to be the only place online to find any good info on this chip.


Welcome to OCN. I have the full size ATX version of the A88X Gaming. Using the +/- buttons in BIOS to change NB voltage is not a problem for me. I verified it in MSI Command Center. But NB frequency for me gets totally unstable after about 2GHz. Maybe a Kaveri revision will change that.

Yes this thread has become the unoffical 860K club, lol. There is also some good info in the other threads like the FM2 Trinity Richland Club, the 750K/760K club, and various other 7850K and Bulldozer/Piledriver overclocking threads.


----------



## IsaacM

Thanks, I use the +/- buttons too, the Voltage goes up but the reading does not change, if you get my meaning. It wont move up, it stays a constant 1.072 v on matter how much I add. I don't know if it's the mobo or not. I had an Asus board before and had the same problem. RMAed the chip and the board and still I can't oc, with this MSI mobo, the NB. Can't seem to get past 4.5 Ghz either, 4.6 Ghz wasn't stable even at 1.55V. Can I go over or is that the limit?

Too bad, I have so much thermal headroom with my H100i. Admittedly I don't quite know yet what to do with CPU PLCC and CPU VDD. Anyone with this Mobo know what to do with these settings?


----------



## damric

I was able to stabilize 4.7GHz with 1.58v and freezing ambient temperature. I can only stabilize about 4.2GHz with normal room temperature. I also have plenty of thermal headroom. The processor just likes cold. I have no idea why your CPU acts like that.


----------



## IsaacM

1.58V won't that cause damage over time?

I wonder if I can oc the NB voltage in command center? I guess I can try.

BTW, do you notice your MSI mobo overvolts the CPU? With no OC the board sets it's voltage at like 1.45 V. I had to go -.1 to get it down to 1.3875 V which is where it should be.


----------



## damric

I have pushed way worse through AMD CPUs while benching and haven't broken one yet. I have a back-up CPU though so I'm not at all worried.

I do notice my board uses a high voltage by default. I offset mine quite a bit at stock frequency.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> 1.58V won't that cause damage over time?


That will degrade the chip, but on a time scale where it will be obsolete before it degrades badly.

AMD processors handle high vcore better than Intel does. And as cheap as 860K's are, there's really no need to worry about it anyway. I needed 1.51 to get to 4.5 stable, and I originally wasn't going to do it, but then I realized I was running a $70 CPU that's beating a stock 2500K (which still sells for twice that much used) on most benchmarks, so what the heck? Actually, this chip seems to be an unusually high leaker by the standards of most 860K's, so it probably isn't being hurt by the volts anyway.


----------



## PhRe4k

I haven't really had time to mess with mine, I upped my ram to 1866 Mhz and a quick OC to 4.2, but no messing with voltages or NB yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That will degrade the chip, but on a time scale where it will be obsolete before it degrades badly.
> 
> AMD processors handle high vcore better than Intel does. And as cheap as 860K's are, there's really no need to worry about it anyway. I needed 1.51 to get to 4.5 stable, and I originally wasn't going to do it, but then I realized I was running a $70 CPU that's beating a stock 2500K (which still sells for twice that much used) on most benchmarks, so what the heck? Actually, this chip seems to be an unusually high leaker by the standards of most 860K's, so it probably isn't being hurt by the volts anyway.


860K at stock beats a 2500K?


----------



## IsaacM

So, not sure what changed, but I was able to increase my NB voltages, thanks for the help!

BTW, what do you guys use to test memory? Memtest? Also, Prime95 aside, is there another program to test CPU stability? Maybe I can use in conjunction with prime95?


----------



## damric

I use IBT with AVX to get a rough estimate of stability.

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202

Then I use ASUS realbench to test long term stability.

Everyone has thier favorite program and everyone has his/her own opinion of what proper stability means.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I haven't really had time to mess with mine, I upped my ram to 1866 Mhz and a quick OC to 4.2, but no messing with voltages or NB yet.
> 860K at stock beats a 2500K?


No. 860K at 4.5 beats a stock 2500K. At the same clocks, a 2500K is ahead by a sizable margin, but an overclocked 860K at 4.5 catches the stock 2500K and comes close to a stock 3570K.

Nothing AMD has reaches those performance levels without overclocking unless it's a heavily multithreaded workload.


----------



## 7850K

gentlemen
I just spent the last 4 hours or so reading every page of this thread. Want to thank you all for the contributed information.
I bought a 7850K just last month not even knowing this 860K existed. I am holding out for the "partial" HSA implementation to pay off somehwere down the line.

Anyway I dont remember seeing this board mentioned but I ended up getting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128655&cm_re=f2a88x_up4-_-13-128-655-_-Product
seemed like a great price for the features. I chose it for the heatsinks and pipe on the VRMs in particular.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> No. 860K at 4.5 beats a stock 2500K. At the same clocks, a 2500K is ahead by a sizable margin, but an overclocked 860K at 4.5 catches the stock 2500K and comes close to a stock 3570K.
> 
> Nothing AMD has reaches those performance levels without overclocking unless it's a heavily multithreaded workload.


Where does it beat a 2500K at stock? I don't think that's happening in anything but a benchmark or 2.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> gentlemen
> I just spent the last 4 hours or so reading every page of this thread. Want to thank you all for the contributed information.
> I bought a 7850K just last month not even knowing this 860K existed. I am holding out for the "partial" HSA implementation to pay off somehwere down the line.
> 
> Anyway I dont remember seeing this board mentioned but I ended up getting:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128655&cm_re=f2a88x_up4-_-13-128-655-_-Product
> seemed like a great price for the features. I chose it for the heatsinks and pipe on the VRMs in particular.


That is supposed to be one of the best boards, but there has been mixed results here.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That is supposed to be one of the best boards, but there has been mixed results here.


I have it and it's been working great with my 5800k.


----------



## HeadGear

The only reasons I took the XBR over the up4 was availability and a good price beat on it. The up4 should have all the features to match the oc headroom of the XBR.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> The only reasons I took the XBR over the up4 was availability and a good price beat on it. The up4 should have all the features to match the oc headroom of the XBR.


Aren't the gigabyte boards still limited to 960 mhz iGPU OC? Granted, that's meaningless to someone running an 860k . . .

Also, I'm not sure, but a lot of the non-Asus boards have had problems getting any kind of real performance past 4.5 ghz (see yawa's many problems with his system, he had an ASRock board).


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Aren't the gigabyte boards still limited to 960 mhz iGPU OC? Granted, that's meaningless to someone running an 860k . . .
> 
> Also, I'm not sure, but a lot of the non-Asus boards have had problems getting any kind of real performance past 4.5 ghz (see yawa's many problems with his system, he had an ASRock board).


The 4.5ghz stable limit appears to be closer related to power phases, and only a handful of boards, the XBR and UP4 are examples, have more than a 4+2 setup. 4+2 boards don't stay stable above 4.5ghz, at the best of times.

With my mATX d3h, I couldn't get the stability past 4.5 even with great heatsinks on the vrms and awesome cooling. Everything else being equal, the XBR crushed the d3h in CPU oc.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I agree with HeadGear. 4+2 Phase with heatsinks and even a fan cooling them isn't quite enough for higher overclocks. Additionally it seems Kaveri has some issues when the CPU runs past the 95W TDP. I technically had a 4.7GHz stable at 1.554 or 1.556V but the only stability test I did was Prime95 8-Hours both Blend and Small FFT. As far as benchmarks 4.7GHz I only did Cinebench and it did get better scores than 4.5GHz but my 860K at 4.7GHz had a few points less than my 8350 at 4.8GHz on Single Core scores. I may have not been running a stable memory speed/timings when I ran Cinebench but I can't retest it anymore as I don't have the 860K nor my motherboard.


----------



## damric

My Extreme 6+ has an impressive amount of phases, yet I could fry an egg on the VRM heatsink and the chokes get hot as hell too.



Yet my 4+2 MSI Gaming has been handling 1.58v Vcore and the VRMs and chokes are cool to the touch.


----------



## RaduZ

Is the extreme 6+ a 6+2 design? Tell me I'm a power phase whore







) Lol, I searched for it on the egg and from what I can tell looking at the back it appears to be a 4+2. Ohh ASRock u silly silly people








:O They say it is 8+2, too bad they are not real 8+2


----------



## damric

8+2. I'm putting mine up for sale next week. It has a broken pin on one of the USB 3.0 headers so I'll be listing it in the market with significant discount.
Quote:


> Premium Gold Capacitor Design, Digi Power, 8 + 2 Power Phase Design


----------



## RaduZ

Yea but manufacturers do this thing where they split the vrm from the mosfets down and before that is like a 4+2 and after its 8+2 but that is not like having true 8+2. Sry for the bad explanation but that is the best I can do, there is an article somwhere on the internet about this and VRMs in general, prty interesting stuff.
Here, it has 3 parts. Watch them if you want to learn about VRMs. (Watch out he is a gigabyte fan







) )


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> My Extreme 6+ has an impressive amount of phases, yet I could fry an egg on the VRM heatsink and the chokes get hot as hell too.


How far can you overclock using the Extreme6+? I've got two and neither will overclock the 860K (it just locks up), same thing happened with my 7850K.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> How far can you overclock using the Extreme6+? I've got two and neither will overclock the 860K (it just locks up), same thing happened with my 7850K.


There is an LN2 BIOS available from HWBOT to allow for cranking up over 8GHz lik they did with the 6800K. I haven't tested my 860K on that board, but my 760K was throttling badly and the VRMs and chokes ran very hot.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> There is an LN2 BIOS available from HWBOT to allow for cranking up over 8GHz lik they did with the 6800K. I haven't tested my 860K on that board, but my 760K was throttling badly and the VRMs and chokes ran very hot.


Thanks for the info.








Unfortunately the LN2 BIOS I found on HWBOT where built on the P1.30 BIOS, the 860k wasn't supported until the P3.30 BIOS, but I'll give it a shot on my backup BIOS when I get home.


----------



## syl1979

Hi,

From my side, some progress.

After installing the two hotfixes for win7 shown upper, I have been able to have some gain in stability :

Stable at 4.2Ghz with offset at -0.04



And better : stable at 4.3 Ghz with offset at +0.006


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> From my side, some progress.
> 
> After installing the two hotfixes for win7 shown upper, I have been able to have some gain in stability :
> 
> Stable at 4.2Ghz with offset at -0.04
> 
> 
> 
> And better : stable at 4.3 Ghz with offset at +0.006


What hotfixes?


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> What hotfixes?


I am guessing the original Bulldozer Hotfixes linked earlier in the thread.


----------



## syl1979

yes these two hotfixes

I confirm they were not proposed by windows update on my fresh win7 install :

KB2645594
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

and

KB2646060
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2646060


----------



## eggs1998

Hey all, just wondering whether the 860k would be worth an upgrade over my current CPU, the ii x4 740 (Trinity arch I think).
Also, do you think that my current mobo that I've had for a year, the MSI A88XM-E35, would need a BIOS update in order to get the kaveri support? It's on V30.0 (the original BIOS; no updates).
Thanks guys


----------



## syl1979

For cpu support, check first on msi website. There should be bios update matching 860k. Check the manual if you can modify the multiplier.

But I know the e35 series cannot modify the voltage.You may be able to reach 4.2/4.3 ghz.

Without overclock, you will only see little improvement , maybe 15% at best. With overclock at 4.2Ghz it should be around +20/25%. If you are playing games it could be well for minimum frame rates.
To my own experience to have a real feel of upgrade, you need to target minimum +50% in performance.

PS :
860K confirmed to be supported. You can get latest bios from here :
http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88XM-E35.html#down-bios
And you can try some overclock as i checked the manual you can modify the multiplier


----------



## syl1979

One small advice : if you don't have an SSD, buy one, you will see much more change on every day's task than upgrading your cpu


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> My Extreme 6+ has an impressive amount of phases, yet I could fry an egg on the VRM heatsink and the chokes get hot as hell too.


Interesting you mentioned the Extreme 6+. That's the board yawa used, and while he could stabilize his CPU above 4.5 ghz, it would not yield any performance benefits to him.

I've got 4.7 ghz stable on an A88x-Pro and it scales just fine above 4.5 ghz. Of course, I only have to push 1.5125v + 20% LLC to get it stable there.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> yes these two hotfixes
> 
> I confirm they were not proposed by windows update on my fresh win7 install :
> 
> KB2645594
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594
> 
> and
> 
> KB2646060
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2646060


The only difference they made for me was that they improved the multi-core performance of the CPU, because it optimizes the scheduler for the K15h uarch. In practice, I think all it does is treat a K15h module as if it were a hyperthreaded Intel core, which produces more efficient use of the module than treating each execution unit of the module like one of AMD's K10.5 cores.

I'm surprised they would make any difference as far as overclocking is concerned. Applying the two patches gave me about an extra five percent multi-core performance, but made no difference otherwise.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Interesting you mentioned the Extreme 6+. That's the board yawa used, and while he could stabilize his CPU above 4.5 ghz, it would not yield any performance benefits to him.
> 
> I've got 4.7 ghz stable on an A88x-Pro and it scales just fine above 4.5 ghz. Of course, I only have to push 1.5125v + 20% LLC to get it stable there.


Yeah I followed @yawa 's thread. Same problems I was having.


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> For cpu support, check first on msi website. There should be bios update matching 860k. Check the manual if you can modify the multiplier.
> 
> But I know the e35 series cannot modify the voltage.You may be able to reach 4.2/4.3 ghz.
> 
> Without overclock, you will only see little improvement , maybe 15% at best. With overclock at 4.2Ghz it should be around +20/25%. If you are playing games it could be well for minimum frame rates.
> To my own experience to have a real feel of upgrade, you need to target minimum +50% in performance.
> 
> PS :
> 860K confirmed to be supported. You can get latest bios from here :
> http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88XM-E35.html#down-bios
> And you can try some overclock as i checked the manual you can modify the multiplier


Hmm do I definitely need a BIOS update then? Also, I have about £100. Is it worth saving for an i3 4130 instead? Or should I just wait out on FM2+ in the hopes that a good CPU will come my way?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The only difference they made for me was that they improved the multi-core performance of the CPU, because it optimizes the scheduler for the K15h uarch. In practice, I think all it does is treat a K15h module as if it were a hyperthreaded Intel core, which produces more efficient use of the module than treating each execution unit of the module like one of AMD's K10.5 cores.
> 
> I'm surprised they would make any difference as far as overclocking is concerned. Applying the two patches gave me about an extra five percent multi-core performance, but made no difference otherwise.


It seems to have reduced the load temperature by 3/4 degrees. And with my thermal issues on my small case it helped a lot.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> Hmm do I definitely need a BIOS update then? Also, I have about £100. Is it worth saving for an i3 4130 instead? Or should I just wait out on FM2+ in the hopes that a good CPU will come my way?


After some check , the 740 = A8 5500 when 860K = A10 7850K
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1272?vs=1200

To my surprise the difference in performance is at 20% in some pure cpu benches ( be careful the games comparison shown are for the integrated GPU). This is at stock.

Regarding the choice of an i3 4130, there will be a huge difference on cost (on cpu + new mainboard). On multithreaded apps the 860K will have similar performance to the core i3 (only 2 true cores). And with overclock the 860K will win. I do not recommand the core i3 in you situation.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-4130-vs-AMD-A10-7850K

If you are short on money, go on with 860K. If not, Instead of a core i3, you may switch for an FX 8xxxx if you want to make some media creation. If it is for gaming, you will really need to go up to core i5.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> It seems to have reduced the load temperature by 3/4 degrees. And with my thermal issues on my small case it helped a lot.


That's interesting. The hotfix will make two simultaneous threads execute on the same module, instead of the scheduler assigning threads all across the board and unparking an unused module unnecessarily. It has to reduce the power draw and heat to some degree, since a program running two simultaneous threads will now run on just one module instead of both, but I'm surprised it makes that much difference.

It didn't seem to make any difference temperature-wise for me, but did boost the multi-core performance. But the leakage on this 860K is so high that it might not matter anyway. I do know that getting the temps down definitely makes a difference.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> After some check , the 740 = A8 5500 when 860K = A10 7850K
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1272?vs=1200
> 
> To my surprise the difference in performance is at 20% in some pure cpu benches ( be careful the games comparison shown are for the integrated GPU). This is at stock.
> 
> Regarding the choice of an i3 4130, there will be a huge difference on cost (on cpu + new mainboard). On multithreaded apps the 860K will have similar performance to the core i3 (only 2 true cores). And with overclock the 860K will win. I do not recommand the core i3 in you situation.
> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-4130-vs-AMD-A10-7850K
> 
> If you are short on money, go on with 860K. If not, Instead of a core i3, you may switch for an FX 8xxxx if you want to make some media creation. If it is for gaming, you will really need to go up to core i5.


I would imagine an i3 setup with cheap H81 board would cost about the same as an Athlon X4 and decent board that won't throttle plus a half decent cooler. The i3 4160 seems to be on sale quite a bit.
I think at worst the i3 and the overclocked 860K will be equals with the i3 winning out the rest of the time.

As for the comparison of Trinity and Kaveri, at similar clock speeds I doubt you will see much of a difference unless in very specific situations. Gaming with a dGPU will be almost no different, etc in real world usage. While the 860K is sold at a good price, you could probably find a used 750/760K or other unlocked Trinity Quad for half the price and get like 98% of the performance.


----------



## syl1979

I was answering to eggs1998 who has already a FM2+ board with A740. So between buying a cpu or cpu+MB there is a difference...
I agree than a used 750/760K may be worth it also. But we speak of used, not everyone likes it.


----------



## Horsemama1956

I know.

He could easily(depending on location) sell he board and CPU for $100 which would cover the H81 and part of the i3.


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> After some check , the 740 = A8 5500 when 860K = A10 7850K
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1272?vs=1200
> 
> To my surprise the difference in performance is at 20% in some pure cpu benches ( be careful the games comparison shown are for the integrated GPU). This is at stock.
> 
> Regarding the choice of an i3 4130, there will be a huge difference on cost (on cpu + new mainboard). On multithreaded apps the 860K will have similar performance to the core i3 (only 2 true cores). And with overclock the 860K will win. I do not recommand the core i3 in you situation.
> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-4130-vs-AMD-A10-7850K
> 
> If you are short on money, go on with 860K. If not, Instead of a core i3, you may switch for an FX 8xxxx if you want to make some media creation. If it is for gaming, you will really need to go up to core i5.


I'm really edging towards the 860k now. There is no specified update that makes Kaveri compatible with this motherboard. Does this mean I can avoid a BIOS update? I've heard too many horror stories about the updates to make it worth it. If I does require a BIOS update, then I guess I might save for an FX6300 & OC that.
Thanks


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> I'm really edging towards the 860k now. There is no specified update that makes Kaveri compatible with this motherboard. Does this mean I can avoid a BIOS update? I've heard too many horror stories about the updates to make it worth it. If I does require a BIOS update, then I guess I might save for an FX6300 & OC that.
> Thanks


If you follow the instructions, and avoid doing the bios update during say, a thunderstorm when the power might be cut off, you will be fine. Upgrading the everything to avoid a bios update is pretty extreme. The riskjust doesn't justify that sort of expense.


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> If you follow the instructions, and avoid doing the bios update during say, a thunderstorm when the power might be cut off, you will be fine. Upgrading the everything to avoid a bios update is pretty extreme. The riskjust doesn't justify that sort of expense.


But if you screw up the update, doesn't that brick your PC? So you'd need a new mobo?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> But if you screw up the update, doesn't that brick your PC? So you'd need a new mobo?


Bios updates are very, very safe. It isn't like the old days when you needed a floppy drive and had to type in arcane commands. I advise anyone who builds his own pc's or tinkers to learn to update their BIOS. You do it once and you are over the fear of doing it. And their comes a day when you have to do it.


----------



## chrisjames61

Won it on eBay for $70. Priority shipping included on 2/4/15. It traveled nearly 3,000 miles from northern California to close to NYC where I live in two days! I'll put it in my Crossblade Ranger. Unfortunately I will have to get a video card like a HD 7870 or something cheap on eBay.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> 
> Won it on eBay for $70. Priority shipping included on 2/4/15. It traveled nearly 3,000 miles from northern California to close to NYC where I live in two days! I'll put it in my Crossblade Ranger. Unfortunately I will have to get a video card like a HD 7870 or something cheap on eBay.


Nice. 7850/7870 should be fairly cheap used on eBay. The 7850 I have laying around I bought for $60 early-mid 2014. Took forever to get one that cheap though.


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Bios updates are very, very safe. It isn't like the old days when you needed a floppy drive and had to type in arcane commands. I advise anyone who builds his own pc's or tinkers to learn to update their BIOS. You do it once and you are over the fear of doing it. And their comes a day when you have to do it.


Completed the latest BIOS update safely. All went swimmingly and now I can install an 860k, right? With the latest BIOS version that'd make sense surely, haha.
You don't need a specific update to run the 860k do you? The latest one should do shouldn't it?


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> Completed the latest BIOS update safely. All went swimmingly and now I can install an 860k, right? With the latest BIOS version that'd make sense surely, haha.
> You don't need a specific update to run the 860k do you? The latest one should do shouldn't it?


odds are you are good to go!


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> Completed the latest BIOS update safely. All went swimmingly and now I can install an 860k, right? With the latest BIOS version that'd make sense surely, haha.
> You don't need a specific update to run the 860k do you? The latest one should do shouldn't it?


See, wasn't so hard!


----------



## RaduZ

How cute... <3 He's all grown up now







)


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> odds are you are good to go!


Please excuse my laziness, but how much have people on here OC'd this CPU without adjusting the stock V? Reckon it'd reach 4GHz-4.2GHz?


----------



## eggs1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> How cute... <3 He's all grown up now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Hey leave me alone lol, I've had no experience in doing something like that before and the risks for me were probably larger than the next person (important work on HDD that I need constant access to + OEM Windows that, should my motherboard die, would cost me a further £50)


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> How cute... <3 He's all grown up now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> Hey leave me alone lol, I've had no experience in doing something like that before and the risks for me were probably larger than the next person (important work on HDD that I need constant access to + OEM Windows that, should my motherboard die, would cost me a further £50)


Hopefully he is only joking.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eggs1998*
> 
> Please excuse my laziness, but how much have people on here OC'd this CPU without adjusting the stock V? Reckon it'd reach 4GHz-4.2GHz?


Stock voltages, had to lower mem to stock 1600 Mhz because would fail Prime95. NB overclocked to 2 Ghz, stock voltage also


----------



## IsaacM

4.2, but you'll be lucky to get to 4.5, from what I've seen anyway.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Stock voltages, had to lower mem to stock 1600 Mhz because would fail Prime95. NB overclocked to 2 Ghz, stock voltage also


How did that work out for you? Did you have to jump through hoops with a BIOS update or did it work out of the box?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Stock voltages, had to lower mem to stock 1600 Mhz because would fail Prime95. NB overclocked to 2 Ghz, stock voltage also


thats pretty much what I got also on my 7850K. Could get ram to 2400 CAS 11, CAS 10 was no go, so I settled for 2133 CAS 9 as a compromise.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I also got 4.2GHz with Stock volts but was not stable with 2.4GHz memory.


----------



## eggs1998

Okay cheers guys, not looking to OC memory, but a stable 4.2GHz sounds pretty good to me


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> How did that work out for you? Did you have to jump through hoops with a BIOS update or did it work out of the box?


I had to update the BIOS only because the 860K won't work with one that came with mobo, so I've been running 1602. Other than that, I just bumped up the CPU and NB ratio and viola







I'll see if I can get any higher on stock V but I doubt it


----------



## IsaacM

I need some advice. I'm thinking of throwing it all in and getting an i3 4160 instead. I can get that plus a nice H97M board for about the same price I spent on my 860k/MSI Gaming combo. Should I do it? I can't seem to find any place that compares the performance of an 860k @4.5 Ghz vs i3 4160.

I know there are other things to consider, such as socket longevity. As far as AMD is concerned, the FM2+ socket is limited now to maybe a 960K or equivalent?

Should I make the switch? All this overclocking business has taken so much of my time, at this price point I don't feel like it's worth it.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> I need some advice. I'm thinking of throwing it all in and getting an i3 4160 instead. I can get that plus a nice H97M board for about the same price I spent on my 860k/MSI Gaming combo. Should I do it? I can't seem to find any place that compares the performance of an 860k @4.5 Ghz vs i3 4160.
> 
> I know there are other things to consider, such as socket longevity. As far as AMD is concerned, the FM2+ socket is limited now to maybe a 960K or equivalent?
> 
> Should I make the switch? All this overclocking business has taken so much of my time, at this price point I don't feel like it's worth it.


Your upgrade options on H97 would be better, for reasons you stated, but you'd be downgrading your CPU by making that switch.

Here's some benchmark readings for an i3-4160: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-4160+%40+3.60GHz

My scores for an 860K at 4.5 are 6891/1955. You'd gain about five percent single-core performance and lose big on multi-core. Real cores still work better than HT. There are some applications where the i3 will win by more than those benchmarks show, but still, at best you'd be spinning your wheels. If you want to switch to Intel, wait until you have the money to do it properly, and get a 4690K. If you get a 4160, you're just going to be pissing away $120 when you get disappointed with it and go buy a 4690K anyway.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Your upgrade options on H97 would be better, for reasons you stated, but you'd be downgrading your CPU by making that switch.
> 
> Here's some benchmark readings for an i3-4160: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-4160+%40+3.60GHz
> 
> My scores for an 860K at 4.5 are 6891/1955. You'd gain about five percent single-core performance and lose big on multi-core. Real cores still work better than HT. There are some applications where the i3 will win by more than those benchmarks show, but still, at best you'd be spinning your wheels. If you want to switch to Intel, wait until you have the money to do it properly, and get a 4690K. If you get a 4160, you're just going to be pissing away $120 when you get disappointed with it and go buy a 4690K anyway.


Well, that's good to hear. I suppose though what I really have to weigh then is the upgrade ability. Thinking about it, I don't believe that I would want an i7-4790k in 3-4 years.

Just to put it into perspective, who is purchasing an i7-2600k today? It doesn't seem like most people are actually doing something like that. Whereas, I can easily see myself purchasing another mid range CPU/Mobo combo in 4 years, whatever that current gen is. Or am I being crazy?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Well, that's good to hear. I suppose though what I really have to weigh then is the upgrade ability. Thinking about it, I don't believe that I would want an i7-4790k in 3-4 years.
> 
> Just to put it into perspective, who is purchasing an i7-2600k today? It doesn't seem like most people are actually doing something like that. Whereas, I can easily see myself purchasing another mid range CPU/Mobo combo in 4 years, whatever that current gen is. Or am I being crazy?


Most of the people who are interested in a 2600K or 2700K are people who bought into Sandy Bridge when it came out and are looking for an upgrade to their 2500K. There's no reason to buy one new anymore, but Sandy and Ivy CPU's are still quite impressive performers. The 2600, 2700 and 3770 all give you eight threads of multi-threaded goodness and aren't that expensive on the secondary market anymore.

One of the things some people don't realize is that high-end CPU performance hasn't advanced much in the last four years. An overclocked 2500K can still hang with a 4690K; it's down 20-25 percent on IPC, but overclocks better because of its soldered IHS. Intel has been almost totally focused on lowering power consumption, and hasn't done much to advance performance. They haven't had to, since AMD's K15h microarchitecture hasn't been able to deliver even remotely competitive performance. All you have to do is look at the conversation we're having. AMD's best K15h core design needs an extra 900 MHz to beat the performance of an Intel CPU that's far from their best stuff, and even then, it doesn't win everything.

And the situation's not going to change unless AMD's Zen can at least match mainstream Intel i5's without needing to be overclocked to death. It has to be frustrating to someone who doesn't just OC for fun (and who has the willingness to spend money on higher-end cooling solutions). You either pay Intel's prices or live with inferior performance.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Most of the people who are interested in a 2600K or 2700K are people who bought into Sandy Bridge when it came out and are looking for an upgrade to their 2500K. There's no reason to buy one new anymore, but Sandy and Ivy CPU's are still quite impressive performers. The 2600, 2700 and 3770 all give you eight threads of multi-threaded goodness and aren't that expensive on the secondary market anymore.
> 
> One of the things some people don't realize is that high-end CPU performance hasn't advanced much in the last four years. An overclocked 2500K can still hang with a 4690K; it's down 20-25 percent on IPC, but overclocks better because of its soldered IHS. Intel has been almost totally focused on lowering power consumption, and hasn't done much to advance performance. They haven't had to, since AMD's K15h microarchitecture hasn't been able to deliver even remotely competitive performance. All you have to do is look at the conversation we're having. AMD's best K15h core design needs an extra 900 MHz to beat the performance of an Intel CPU that's far from their best stuff, and even then, it doesn't win everything.
> 
> And the situation's not going to change unless AMD's Zen can at least match mainstream Intel i5's without needing to be overclocked to death. It has to be frustrating to someone who doesn't just OC for fun (and who has the willingness to spend money on higher-end cooling solutions). You either pay Intel's prices or live with inferior performance.


No... 20-25%? Much less then that. SB to IVY ~ 5%, ICY to HW ~ 5-10%. You will get ~ 10% better IPC with lower OC in average. The benefit of something like HW and IVY over SB is higher memory speeds. It was next to impossible to run 2400MHz with SB. In CPU limited situations memory makes a difference.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I also got 4.2GHz with Stock volts but was not stable with 2.4GHz memory.


Try 1.7v on the dimms and 1.25v on the NB.


----------



## syl1979

New bios release just for 860k on asus a88xm, will try to see if I can overclock northbridge, at last


----------



## IsaacM

So, with ARMA 3, I've heard it is a cpu heavy game, with my 860k at 4.5 Ghz and a R9 280x (oced), I'm getting an average of 25 FPS (with all setting maxed out Ultra), with variance of about 8. Mostly playable.

Anyone else getting similar results? It seems my oced 860k has similar performance to an i5 4440.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> So, with ARMA 3, I've heard it is a cpu heavy game, with my 860k at 4.5 Ghz and a R9 280x (oced), I'm getting an average of 25 FPS (with all setting maxed out Ultra), with variance of about 8. Mostly playable.
> 
> Anyone else getting similar results? It seems my oced 860k has similar performance to an i5 4440.


At 4.5 GHz, an 860K is about spot-on with a stock i5-4440. You're getting exactly the performance level you should expect.

But isn't it nice to get the performance of a $190 CPU for about $80, if you already have the cooling solution to handle the OC?


----------



## bucdan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> So, with ARMA 3, I've heard it is a cpu heavy game, with my 860k at 4.5 Ghz and a R9 280x (oced), I'm getting an average of 25 FPS (with all setting maxed out Ultra), with variance of about 8. Mostly playable.
> 
> Anyone else getting similar results? It seems my oced 860k has similar performance to an i5 4440.


All else, that game is very Intel and Nvidia bias anyway.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Hello all, just moved over from a 760k to a 860, and have a few questions. First off the NB frequency seems to be jumping around from 1099.7 to 1799.6 about every few seconds, is this normal? It is on auto, but even so with the 760k it never budged from default. Secondly I am running Trident X 2400 sticks at 2133 because I have no clue about the IMC on this chip yet and what it is capable of handling volt and NB frequency wise... so I have left it on auto for now. Is anyone able to get 2200 out of it, or is better to go 1866 on the ram and 2000 as I see most have at 1.2volts. I have always had trouble getting these sticks stable so any help would be awesome, thanks.


----------



## matty50racer

I have overclocked 2 Kaveri's and both are rock solid stable at default NB voltage with 2133 ram speed. If your ram is stable at 2400 I would try to make that work. Most chips just need a slight voltage bump to make the 2400 ram stable and like 1900-2000 NB clock.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Hello all, just moved over from a 760k to a 860, and have a few questions. First off the NB frequency seems to be jumping around from 1099.7 to 1799.6 about every few seconds, is this normal? It is on auto, but even so with the 760k it never budged from default. Secondly I am running Trident X 2400 sticks at 2133 because I have no clue about the IMC on this chip yet and what it is capable of handling volt and NB frequency wise... so I have left it on auto for now. Is anyone able to get 2200 out of it, or is better to go 1866 on the ram and 2000 as I see most have at 1.2volts. I have always had trouble getting these sticks stable so any help would be awesome, thanks.


I know this thread is a long read, but most of the owners here have had problems getting a stable NB much over 2000MHz. I'd say at least ~50% of the users were able to run DDR3-2400. I wish we could get higher NB frequency because it is scaling from stock 1800MHz according to the AIDA memory test. Also AIDA shows very high latency for the memory controller, the worst I have seen on any recent AMD processor. I tested both DDR3-2400CL9 and DDR3-2133CL8 and got about the same results in AIDA. I think newer games really like the higher bandwidth though. I see a difference in Far Cry 3 when going to 2400MT/s.

I'm not 100% sure why NB frequency fluctuates when left in auto, probably a new power saving technology. Disable that.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I know this thread is a long read, but most of the owners here have had problems getting a stable NB much over 2000MHz. I'd say at least ~50% of the users were able to run DDR3-2400. I wish we could get higher NB frequency because it is scaling from stock 1800MHz according to the AIDA memory test. Also AIDA shows very high latency for the memory controller, the worst I have seen on any recent AMD processor. I tested both DDR3-2400CL9 and DDR3-2133CL8 and got about the same results in AIDA. I think newer games really like the higher bandwidth though. I see a difference in Far Cry 3 when going to 2400MT/s.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure why NB frequency fluctuates when left in auto, probably a new power saving technology. Disable that.


Thanks Damric. About disabling the power savings... well I manually set the NB frequency to 1800 and it still jumps around. I had to do a bios update to support the new processor and noticed a few more features, perhaps I overlooked something.


----------



## damric

Which motherboard is this? I'm going to see if I can find info in the manual.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Which motherboard is this? I'm going to see if I can find info in the manual.


Asus A88X Pro.


----------



## RaduZ

Asus boards with this setup are known to have probs with 2400 Mhz memory, My board (A88XM-Plus) has it too... it just doesn't like my Kingston HyperX bla bla 2400 MHz sticks. Try a lower or a higher mem freq.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> Asus boards with this setup are known to have probs with 2400 Mhz memory, My board (A88XM-Plus) has it too... it just doesn't like my Kingston HyperX bla bla 2400 MHz sticks. Try a lower or a higher mem freq.


I had an A88XM-Plus/CSM, it would say it ran my AMD 2400 MHz ram at 2400 (only with oc), but windows would report 2133. So who knows, the MSI A88sm Gaming never had a problem with the ram. That being said, neither one could oc the NB worth a damn.


----------



## SYPH

Is the 860k stronger than a a10 7850k? Because i heard that the 7850k bottlenecks a r9 270x


----------



## damric

I heard if you step in a crack, you break your mother's back.


----------



## SYPH

Thats cool, but i'm asking a serious question...


----------



## damric

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2171079/bottlenecks-beginners.html


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2171079/bottlenecks-beginners.html


Thanks bruh


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Is the 860k stronger than a a10 7850k?


They're the same thing. The 860K just has the onboard GPU disabled. CPU-wise, they're identical dual-module Steamroller core chips.
Quote:


> Because i heard that the 7850k bottlenecks a r9 270x


If you turn off the turbo and any power states necessary to prevent unnecessary throttling, no way in hell. A 270X is nothing but an rebranded old 7870 running at a slightly higher clock speed. An overclocked Bulldozer or an even older Deneb can handle it.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> They're the same thing. The 860K just has the onboard GPU disabled. CPU-wise, they're identical dual-module Steamroller core chips.
> If you turn off the turbo and any power states necessary to prevent unnecessary throttling, no way in hell. A 270X is nothing but an rebranded old 7870 running at a slightly higher clock speed. An overclocked Bulldozer or an even older Deneb can handle it.


Thanks for the info. My cousin just ordered a R9 280 since it was cheaper. But i'm still in a dilemma. Deciding between a FX 6300 or the 7850k(860K). I want to get a 6300/8350 but with graphics its over budget.


----------



## jsc1973

Do you play a lot of games or do other types of workloads where six cores can be put to good use? If you do, the 6300 at current prices is a fine value, as is the easily overclockable FX-8310 if you can find one of those. But if you never need more than a quad-core, an overclocked 860K is a better solution. You can also consider a 7850K if you think the performance of its onboard GPU (roughly R7 250 performance) is satisfactory for you. A 7850K with fast RAM can produce playable frameratres, but it won't come close to any R9 performance.

The R9 280 and an overclocked 860K are actually a pretty solid pairing.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Thanks for the info. My cousin just ordered a R9 280 since it was cheaper. But i'm still in a dilemma. Deciding between a FX 6300 or the 7850k(860K). I want to get a 6300/8350 but with graphics its over budget.


Well, for gaming, you'll use at most 4 cores. Most games are fine with two. If you're doing something else (video editing, etc), you might want to use 6 cores. If you do get an 860k, and are successful in overclocking it to 4.5 Ghz (far from given), you can expect to see performance somewhere around an i5 4440, so you can compare that intel chip with the fx 6300 in games.

Keep in mind, to overclock to 4.5 you'll likely need a water cooler, or maybe I'm just paranoid and did not like the idea of my air cooled 860k hovering around 60C (plus I hated the noise of the fans). So, put the price of the cooler in there, I bought an H100i used for $65, and you're looking at potentially 180 dollars, plus another 100 for a mobo, $280 dollars. An i5 4460 plus an H97 board costs about the same. Just something to consider.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Well, for gaming, you'll use at most 4 cores. Most games are fine with two. If you're doing something else (video editing, etc), you might want to use 6 cores. If you do get an 860k, and are successful in overclocking it to 4.5 Ghz (far from given), you can expect to see performance somewhere around an i5 4440, so you can compare that intel chip with the fx 6300 in games.
> 
> Keep in mind, to overclock to 4.5, you'll likely need a water cooler, or maybe I'm just paranoid and did not like the idea of my air cooled 860k hovering around 60C (plus I hated the noise of the fans). So, put the price of the cooler in there, I bought an H100i used for $65, and you're looking at potentially 180 dollars, plus another 100 for a mobo, $280 dollars. An i5 4460 plus an H97 board costs about the same. Just something to consider.


AIO closed loop water coolers use static pressure fans that are the same that are used in air coolers. No difference. So I don't get what you mean about noise of fans. An 860K is a very easy to cool cpu. Only four cores and no L3. A cheap cooler like a Hyper 212 EVO is about all you need. I have an eight core 8320 that is cooled fine by a Noctua NH-D14 and it is quiet as can be. The 860K will never approach the heat an 8320 is capable of by a longshot.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Do you play a lot of games or do other types of workloads where six cores can be put to good use? If you do, the 6300 at current prices is a fine value, as is the easily overclockable FX-8310 if you can find one of those. But if you never need more than a quad-core, an overclocked 860K is a better solution. You can also consider a 7850K if you think the performance of its onboard GPU (roughly R7 250 performance) is satisfactory for you. A 7850K with fast RAM can produce playable frameratres, but it won't come close to any R9 performance.
> 
> The R9 280 and an overclocked 860K are actually a pretty solid pairing.


I only play to play Dota 2, CSGO, and Maplestory. I use photoshop (but my school runs photoshop with a pentium4 so its ok), and krita mostly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> AIO closed loop water coolers use static pressure fans that are the same that are used in air coolers. No difference. So I don't get what you mean about noise of fans. An 860K is a very easy to cool cpu. Only four cores and no L3. A cheap cooler like a Hyper 212 EVO is about all you need. I have an eight core 8320 that is cooled fine by a Noctua NH-D14 and it is quiet as can be. The 860K will never approach the heat an 8320 is capable of by a longshot.


How far do you think i can overclock the 7850k with 212 evo with Corsair fans in push/pull


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> AIO closed loop water coolers use static pressure fans that are the same that are used in air coolers. No difference. So I don't get what you mean about noise of fans. An 860K is a very easy to cool cpu. Only four cores and no L3. A cheap cooler like a Hyper 212 EVO is about all you need. I have an eight core 8320 that is cooled fine by a Noctua NH-D14 and it is quiet as can be. The 860K will never approach the heat an 8320 is capable of by a longshot.


I had a Hyper 212 Evo, with its stock fan and another in push/pull, at 4.5 GHz and 1.59 volts, they would spin up to around 2400 RPM , not fun. With the H100i, and four fans in push/pull, they stay at 1200 RPM, temps never above 45 C. This has been my experience ocing the 860k. That being said, SYPH can just turn on amd cool and quiet and turbo and not worry about fan noise until his cpu is under load.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Keep in mind, to overclock to 4.5 you'll likely need a water cooler, or maybe I'm just paranoid and did not like the idea of my air cooled 860k hovering around 60C (plus I hated the noise of the fans). So, put the price of the cooler in there, I bought an H100i used for $65, and you're looking at potentially 180 dollars, plus another 100 for a mobo, $280 dollars. An i5 4460 plus an H97 board costs about the same. Just something to consider.


Actually, most 860K's seem to be low leakers and run cool, even overclocked. You don't need a closed loop or even a high-end air cooler to do the job. Unfortunately, a few of them are high leakers and do run hot--yours sounds worse than mine. But even on this chip, I have acceptable temperatures running 4.5 GHz at 1.51v with just a Megahalems in push-pull, with hours of P95 staying well within the thermal limits.

Most 860K owners are using nothing more than a 212 Evo and getting good overclocks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> I only play to play Dota 2, CSGO, and Maplestory. I use photoshop (but my school runs photoshop with a pentium4 so its ok), and krita mostly.
> How far do you think i can overclock the 7850k with 212 evo with Corsair fans in push/pull


Depends on whether or not you're also going to try to OC the onboard GPU, which will generate more heat if you do. I don't think 7850K's, as a general rule, overclock quite as well as 860K's if you're using the onboard graphics because of the added heat, but I've heard of people hitting around 4.2-4.3, and some of them do better than that. I think there is a 7850K thread on here where they could offer better information. In some ways, a 7850K is likely better silicon than a typical 860K. 860K chips are 7850K's that had flaws in their GPU section during AMD quality control testing, so AMD disabled the GPU and sold the chip as an Athlon.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Actually, most 860K's seem to be low leakers and run cool, even overclocked. You don't need a closed loop or even a high-end air cooler to do the job. Unfortunately, a few of them are high leakers and do run hot--yours sounds worse than mine. But even on this chip, I have acceptable temperatures running 4.5 GHz at 1.51v with just a Megahalems in push-pull, with hours of P95 staying well within the thermal limits.
> 
> Most 860K owners are using nothing more than a 212 Evo and getting good overclocks.
> Depends on whether or not you're also going to try to OC the onboard GPU, which will generate more heat if you do. I don't think 7850K's, as a general rule, overclock quite as well as 860K's if you're using the onboard graphics because of the added heat, but I've heard of people hitting around 4.2-4.3, and some of them do better than that. I think there is a 7850K thread on here where they could offer better information. In some ways, a 7850K is likely better silicon than a typical 860K. 860K chips are 7850K's that had flaws in their GPU section during AMD quality control testing, so AMD disabled the GPU and sold the chip as an Athlon.


Ah i see, i'll probably pair it with a MSI a88x Gaming mobo. Yea i'll most likely overclock the GPU, and deal with 4.3 GHz overclock until I get dGPU and disable, then focus on the CPU performance. Thanks for all this info


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Thanks for the info. My cousin just ordered a R9 280 since it was cheaper. But i'm still in a dilemma. Deciding between a FX 6300 or the 7850k(860K). I want to get a 6300/8350 but with graphics its over budget.


The 860K is pretty darn good for gaming. The only weakness I have seen is when recording games in high quality/streaming where more cores is better. Example I can play Far Cry 3 normally without much FPS dip with each core about 70%, but once I turn on raptr or Afterburner recording then all 4 of my cores go to 100% and FPS drops into the 30s-40s because the CPU is just overwhelmed. This is where an FX-8310 or i7 would do a lot better.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The 860K is pretty darn good for gaming. The only weakness I have seen is when recording games in high quality/streaming where more cores is better. Example I can play Far Cry 3 normally without much FPS dip with each core about 70%, but once I turn on raptr or Afterburner recording then all 4 of my cores go to 100% and FPS drops into the 30s-40s because the CPU is just overwhelmed. This is where an FX-8310 or i7 would do a lot better.


Eh sadly i can't afford a 860K + Mobo + 212 Evo + a R9 graphics without breaking my wallet. I might save up though since i heard 860K overclocks better than a 7850k but i'll have to ask the folks over there.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Eh sadly i can't afford a 860K + Mobo + 212 Evo + a R9 graphics without breaking my wallet. I might save up though since i heard 860K overclocks better than a 7850k but i'll have to ask the folks over there.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($74.99 @ NCIX US)
*Motherboard:* MSI A88XM GAMING Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
*Memory:* G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($62.99 @ Newegg)
*Storage:* Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($62.99 @ Amazon)
*Video Card:* PowerColor Radeon R9 280 3GB TurboDuo Video Card ($162.98 @ Newegg)
*Case:* Cougar Spike MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($29.99 @ Mwave)
*Power Supply:* Antec High Current Gamer 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
*Other:* Windows 10 Previw ($0.00)
*Total:* $532.92
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-14 22:02 EST-0500_


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Eh sadly i can't afford a 860K + Mobo + 212 Evo + a R9 graphics without breaking my wallet. I might save up though since i heard 860K overclocks better than a 7850k but i'll have to ask the folks over there.


If all you play is Dota 2, CSGO, and Maplestory then the 7850k is more than enough without a stand alone card. As a bonus you get the Huma HSA integration for when it becomes more widely coded for.


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The 860K is pretty darn good for gaming. The only weakness I have seen is when recording games in high quality/streaming where more cores is better. Example I can play Far Cry 3 normally without much FPS dip with each core about 70%, but once I turn on raptr or Afterburner recording then all 4 of my cores go to 100% and FPS drops into the 30s-40s because the CPU is just overwhelmed. This is where an FX-8310 or i7 would do a lot better.


You should try this https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/obs-branch-with-amd-vce-support.13996/ It's a modified version of OBS witch suports the AMD gpu encoding mambo jumbo that is found in the raptr app.

I have a A10-7850K and a R9-285 and record at a max bitrate of 20000 kb/s and quality setting of 10 and when I turn the recording on I get maybe 1-2 FPS drop.


----------



## YGFamily

What's a good GPU to pair with this Chip, and a MSI A88X-G45 for gaming and productivity?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Ah i see, i'll probably pair it with a MSI a88x Gaming mobo. Yea i'll most likely overclock the GPU, and deal with 4.3 GHz overclock until I get dGPU and disable, then focus on the CPU performance. Thanks for all this info


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> If all you play is Dota 2, CSGO, and Maplestory then the 7850k is more than enough without a stand alone card.


True. The onboard R7 250-class GPU can handle all of that at reasonable framerates. Just make sure that if you go that route, you won't want to play something that the onboard struggles with anytime soon. If the onboard R7 won't be a long-term solution for you, then getting a 7850K isn't a good value at current prices, and you're better off with the Athlon and a dedicated GPU.

Get the fastest RAM you can to pair with a 7850K running onboard graphics. The onboard GPU's on an AMD APU like fast RAM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YGFamily*
> 
> What's a good GPU to pair with this Chip, and a MSI A88X-G45 for gaming and productivity?


All you need to do is read the last few posts in the thread. Get an R9 280 and you're good to go.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> True. The onboard R7 250-class GPU can handle all of that at reasonable framerates. Just make sure that if you go that route, you won't want to play something that the onboard struggles with anytime soon. If the onboard R7 won't be a long-term solution for you, then getting a 7850K isn't a good value at current prices, and you're better off with the Athlon and a dedicated GPU.
> 
> Get the fastest RAM you can to pair with a 7850K running onboard graphics. The onboard GPU's on an AMD APU like fast RAM.
> All you need to do is read the last few posts in the thread. Get an R9 280 and you're good to go.


I don't plan to play any GPU bound games yet for a few months because I still have to upgrade my current 720p monitor. I'll be using just the on board graphics for like 4 months or so, maybe less... I probably won't game on PC as much since my most of my friends play consoles, but I'll definitely start playing a lot of PC games as well.


----------



## jsc1973

You're fine with the 7850K, then. It can play just about anything if you're only running at 720p.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> If all you play is Dota 2, CSGO, and Maplestory then the 7850k is more than enough without a stand alone card. As a bonus you get the Huma HSA integration for when it becomes more widely coded for.


Any word when that will happen? I thought that it was Carizo (sp) that will get true HSA, Kaveri was gimped when it came to HSA.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Any word when that will happen? I thought that it was Carizo (sp) that will get true HSA, Kaveri was gimped when it came to HSA.


Word is it isn't going to be a socketed cpu.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Hey all, so I made it through about half of the thread and there is a lot of good information that I have gathered thus far. I do have a question about AMD overdrive though. I want to check the thermal margins, yet after installation I don't see any options for monitoring. All I get is an enable and disable overdrive option for the cpu and graphics card, and even after enabling I see no monitoring options. There is also this auto tune option that I don't want to touch. So where do I find the monitoring options for the cpu? Thanks.

EDIT* nevermind, it is not in the catalyst control center like I thought. I never made a shortcut so I didn't know it was separate


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Any word when that will happen? I thought that it was Carizo (sp) that will get true HSA, Kaveri was gimped when it came to HSA.


Kaveri has the shared memory pipeline built in and is HSA compliant
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7825/03%20-%20HSA%20Features_678x452.jpg
http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/AMD-Kaveri-Architecture.jpg
I had read Carrizo would have more HSA features but I'm not sure on the details


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> At 4.5 GHz, an 860K is about spot-on with a stock i5-4440. You're getting exactly the performance level you should expect.
> 
> But isn't it nice to get the performance of a $190 CPU for about $80, if you already have the cooling solution to handle the OC?


I was skeptical about this until I ran BHbench and HWBOT Prime and was neck and neck with the locked Haswell i5s (non OC'd). AMD finally caught up.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I was skeptical about this until I ran BHbench and HWBOT Prime and was neck and neck with the locked Haswell i5s (non OC'd). AMD finally caught up.


Do you haves pics of the i5's score?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Do you haves pics of the i5's score?


I looked at score rankings on HWBOT.org of the locked i5 Haswells that were at stock 3.2GHz-3.4GHz.. I was amazed, really.

Go to the site. Browse CPUs > socket 1155 > pick the CPU > browse the benches.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I was skeptical about this until I ran BHbench and HWBOT Prime and was neck and neck with the locked Haswell i5s (non OC'd). AMD finally caught up.


I wouldn't go quite that far. Not when you need a somewhat problematic 800 MHz overclock of an 860K to get to the level of a stock Intel CPU.

If anyone could just walk into a store, buy an 860K and set it at 4.5 and have it work without a hitch, that would be one thing. Unfortunately, it takes some skill as an overclocker, an aftermarket cooler, and a pretty good FM2+ motherboard, and even then, some of them can't do a 100 percent stable 4.5. For a DIY newb, you'd probably still recommend an i5-4440 over an 860K, since it offers the same performance out of the box on any cheap motherboard with stock cooling. But for someone who already has a good aftermarket cooler and knows a little about overclocking, an 860K is a great deal. I'm hoping that the Kaveri refresh comes with the Athlon version readily available and easier to OC. If it does, then anyone, and not just the OCN crowd, can truly count on getting mid-range Intel performance from an inexpensive Athlon chip.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I was skeptical about this until I ran BHbench and HWBOT Prime and was neck and neck with the locked Haswell i5s (non OC'd). AMD finally caught up.


This is something I found interesting just on CPUboss' comparison(although not completely relevant to this thread, pardon the sidetrack)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-5010U-vs-AMD-A8-6410
it's Beema with Puma cores which are on the same 28nm die size as Steamroller. I was unable to confirm how much else the chips have in common.
Seeing the single thread performance so close at nearly the same clock speeds to the Broadwell is very promising. I'd bet Carrizo will at least match Puma's single thread, if not overtake.
for what it's worth I'm typing from a brand new laptop with that exact Beema cpu and I love it.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I wouldn't go quite that far. Not when you need a somewhat problematic 800 MHz overclock of an 860K to get to the level of a stock Intel CPU.
> 
> If anyone could just walk into a store, buy an 860K and set it at 4.5 and have it work without a hitch, that would be one thing. Unfortunately, it takes some skill as an overclocker, an aftermarket cooler, and a pretty good FM2+ motherboard, and even then, some of them can't do a 100 percent stable 4.5. For a DIY newb, you'd probably still recommend an i5-4440 over an 860K, since it offers the same performance out of the box on any cheap motherboard with stock cooling. But for someone who already has a good aftermarket cooler and knows a little about overclocking, an 860K is a great deal. I'm hoping that the Kaveri refresh comes with the Athlon version readily available and easier to OC. If it does, then anyone, and not just the OCN crowd, can truly count on getting mid-range Intel performance from an inexpensive Athlon chip.


Are kaveri chips really that hard to overclock?


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I looked at score rankings on HWBOT.org of the locked i5 Haswells that were at stock 3.2GHz-3.4GHz.. I was amazed, really.
> 
> Go to the site. Browse CPUs > socket 1155 > pick the CPU > browse the benches.


Pretty limited set of benchmarks though. Run a tonne of games and apps and the difference will be quite significant. Outside of a few benchmarks AMD was able to boost performance in(HWBOT type) the 860k isn't much better than the 760/750K. Gaming the Athlons don't touch the i5.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Are kaveri chips really that hard to overclock?


Not difficult, but they seem to have a low 24/7 stable ceiling, even with great gear. And good parts (mobo and cooling anyhow) are needed to hit that ceiling, whatever it might be.

That being said, most users in the thread have had an easy time getting to 4.2-4.3 stable, with minimal cooling required. Its not 4.5, but gaming at 4.2 is still an excellent experience.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Are kaveri chips really that hard to overclock?


Harder than Richland, which was very easy to OC for most people. A little bit of experience with OC helps with Kaveri. But it's not like trying to overclock an i3 or a Kabini.

Don't be intimidated by it. If you buy a Kaveri and need help overclocking, that's what you have an OCN membership for.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

If you get an above average chip you should easily expect 4.5GHz. Like HeadGear said 4.2-4.3GHz seems to be an easy target. 2000MHz for the NB seems to be about the Max. I like to think that my 860K was a little bit special. I could run the NB at 2200MHz up through the 860K at 4.4GHz. For 4.5-4.7GHz I could only get my system stable with NB at 2000Mhz Max. For me 4.3GHz was achieved with 1.368V and 4.4/4.5GHz only needed a small .03 to .05V increase. It was at speeds above 4.5GHz (4.6 and 4.7) where I had to up my voltage nearly .1V (.096 to be exact) to get the system stable with Prime95 Small FFT/Blend for 8+ hours. I kind of wish I kept my 860K. That way I could have bought a Asus Crossblade Ranger or Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 some where in the future to see if the chip could go any higher than the results of a 4+2 Phase Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. Sadly I couldn't find a good reason to have two gaming PCs for myself with the 8350 and 860K, nor did I want to replace my brothers 1055T with the 860K either. That 860K is now proudly owned by a 60/70+ year old man who bought it from me on CL for $50.


----------



## damric

I'd say my chip is below average. I'm running 1.6v to keep 4.5GHz stable. I've had worse though.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> If you get an above average chip you should easily expect 4.5GHz. Like HeadGear said 4.2-4.3GHz seems to be an easy target. 2000MHz for the NB seems to be about the Max. I like to think that my 860K was a little bit special. I could run the NB at 2200MHz up through the 860K at 4.4GHz. For 4.5-4.7GHz I could only get my system stable with NB at 2000Mhz Max. For me 4.3GHz was achieved with 1.368V and 4.4/4.5GHz only needed a small .03 to .05V increase. It was at speeds above 4.5GHz (4.6 and 4.7) where I had to up my voltage nearly .1V (.096 to be exact) to get the system stable with Prime95 Small FFT/Blend for 8+ hours. I kind of wish I kept my 860K. That way I could have bought a Asus Crossblade Ranger or Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 some where in the future to see if the chip could go any higher than the results of a 4+2 Phase Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. Sadly I couldn't find a good reason to have two gaming PCs for myself with the 8350 and 860K, nor did I want to replace my brothers 1055T with the 860K either. That 860K is now proudly owned by a 60/70+ year old man who bought it from me on CL for $50.


That is good. I made it up to around 4.2 without even touching the voltage, and then it started needing a significant boost after around 4.3. If you did that on a D3H, that was a really good 860K. I think most 860K's would hit 4.5 with the power phasing on a A88X-PRO, UP4, or a Crossblade Ranger, but 4.5 on a D3H with a heavily overclocked NB without killing the board or throttling is very good.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That is good. I made it up to around 4.2 without even touching the voltage, and then it started needing a significant boost after around 4.3. If you did that on a D3H, that was a really good 860K. I think most 860K's would hit 4.5 with the power phasing on a A88X-PRO, UP4, or a Crossblade Ranger, but 4.5 on a D3H with a heavily overclocked NB without killing the board or throttling is very good.


Yeah it's sad to not have been able to test it's full potential. If I had known what I learned from my OC experience of the FX 8350, had RAM that did not get errors at it's rated 2400MHz speed and a good FM2+ socket motherboard from the beginning things might have turned out differently. I had the impression my 860K was just average when I just got the CPU but now I see it was one of the good CPUs I've owned as far OC ability. I wish I kept it but nothing good will come from regretting my decision. Important thing is that the PC that replaced my 860K performs better for my needs. The 860K, D3H, and 7850 has covered 3/4 the cost of the 8350/CHVFZ. If I sell off the case and some other components it should cover the CPU/Mobo and even some of the GPU.


----------



## Newaes

Hope I'm not overstepping here but I'm desperate and this thread looks like my best chance.

I just build my first setup , went with the 860k and I'm having some issues. Might aswell link you to my Toms Hardware post HERE so you've got the details.

As the absolute amateur I am, I'm still seeing this as a mobo issue. Found a youtuber who had a very similar setup 860k/280x and he was running Far Cry 4 and whatnot so I figured I'd buy the game and see if my problems was limited, this time, only to LoL. Iit is not. I can't even make it through the first cutscene before either the game stops responding or the whole computer freezes. I have never gotten any sort of error messages so perhaps it could be thermal throttling as I've read here that it seems somewhat common. Strange part is that I have made it through Furmark 20mins and 14hours of Prime95.

So my question to you guys, how do I setup my bios? What should be enabled/auto/disabled? Feel free to PM me if this thread isnt the place this.

Grateful for any help!


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newaes*
> 
> Hope I'm not overstepping here but I'm desperate and this thread looks like my best chance.
> 
> I just build my first setup , went with the 860k and I'm having some issues. Might aswell link you to my Toms Hardware post HERE so you've got the details.
> 
> As the absolute amateur I am, I'm still seeing this as a mobo issue. Found a youtuber who had a very similar setup 860k/280x and he was running Far Cry 4 and whatnot so I figured I'd buy the game and see if my problems was limited, this time, only to LoL. Iit is not. I can't even make it through the first cutscene before either the game stops responding or the whole computer freezes. I have never gotten any sort of error messages so perhaps it could be thermal throttling as I've read here that it seems somewhat common. Strange part is that I have made it through Furmark 20mins and 14hours of Prime95.
> 
> So my question to you guys, how do I setup my bios? What should be enabled/auto/disabled? Feel free to PM me if this thread isnt the place this.
> 
> Grateful for any help!


It definitely *appears* to be a motherboard issue. The problem with only running p95, is that it won't uncover vrm issues unless you are monitoring clock rates.

Example: on my m-d3h, I could run 4.5ghz for days on p95 small FFTs. It was stable by that definition, but when monitoring clockrates in AOD, I noticed that the corea were not staying at 4.5 consistently at all, in fact, constantly dipping down to 1.7ghz alternately. AOD was showing fantastic thermal margins, and the system would be otherwise completely p95 stable, but would frequently crash in games. I had all power saving features disabled in the BIOS.

All things being exactly equal (same hsf, ram, PSU), when I switched to the crossblade, the deviations in clock rates ceased. 4.5 stayed rock solid at 4.5. Benches and games showed this to be true as well, as they improved in stability and performance, even though they were set up the same.

The D3H vrms were heatsinked and had great airflow, I have come to believe the 4+2 vrms weren't capable of maintaining that speed on my leaky chip.

So extropolating from this experience, from what you have described, you may have crappy vrms. Stable in p95, but bad in games.

Check AOD and see if you are getting frequency fluctuations while stress testing. If they are fluctuating, try down clocking/volting with all power saving features disabled, and see if there comes a point at which the fluctuating ceases. If so, it may be indicative of bad power delivery to the CPU.

The perfect storm, so to speak, would be somewhat underperforming vrms and a leaky chip combination, which may be the case if this experiment meets my predictions.

Its worth a shot, anyhow.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

So after reading through this thread and others I am guessing 1.512v is the max ,"safe", recommended voltage for this chip? Is there a consensus on NB voltage?

Well, here is my baseline scores in 3dmark 11 and Skydiver, just wanted to share. I am quite pleased when comparing them to my 760k at 4.5ghz/2400ram and NB @ 2.4. Roughly 1500-1800 points below the 760k in both benchmarks. Now I just have to OC this 860 and see what she can do









860K stock with 4ghz boost / 2133 ram / NB 1800


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newaes*
> 
> Hope I'm not overstepping here but I'm desperate and this thread looks like my best chance.
> 
> I just build my first setup , went with the 860k and I'm having some issues. Might aswell link you to my Toms Hardware post HERE so you've got the details.
> 
> As the absolute amateur I am, I'm still seeing this as a mobo issue. Found a youtuber who had a very similar setup 860k/280x and he was running Far Cry 4 and whatnot so I figured I'd buy the game and see if my problems was limited, this time, only to LoL. Iit is not. I can't even make it through the first cutscene before either the game stops responding or the whole computer freezes. I have never gotten any sort of error messages so perhaps it could be thermal throttling as I've read here that it seems somewhat common. Strange part is that I have made it through Furmark 20mins and 14hours of Prime95.
> 
> So my question to you guys, how do I setup my bios? What should be enabled/auto/disabled? Feel free to PM me if this thread isnt the place this.
> 
> Grateful for any help!


I will reply to your THW post. You have a bunk PSU model known to cause these problems.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Which version of IBT is best to test with? Thanks.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Which version of IBT is best to test with? Thanks.


The one with AVX.

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202

Also check out ASUS Realbench. I have been using that one for my stability testing now since it's not synthetic.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The one with AVX.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202
> 
> Also check out ASUS Realbench. I have been using that one for my stability testing now since it's not synthetic.


Thanks, that is the one I have. I actually snagged up realbench last night after seeing you post about it. Does it matter where you extract it, and does it eliminate all other usual steps like P95 large FFT's and Blend?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Thanks, that is the one I have. I actually snagged up realbench last night after seeing you post about it. Does it matter where you extract it, and does it eliminate all other usual steps like P95 large FFT's and Blend?


I just extracted the folder to a new folder on my desktop and run the shortcut. I wouldn't say yes or no that it replaces any of the old tried and true testing. It's totally something different. I'm new to it too so I'd like to hear your feedback.


----------



## Newaes

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> It definitely *appears* to be a motherboard issue. The problem with only running p95, is that it won't uncover vrm issues unless you are monitoring clock rates.
> 
> Example: on my m-d3h, I could run 4.5ghz for days on p95 small FFTs. It was stable by that definition, but when monitoring clockrates in AOD, I noticed that the corea were not staying at 4.5 consistently at all, in fact, constantly dipping down to 1.7ghz alternately. AOD was showing fantastic thermal margins, and the system would be otherwise completely p95 stable, but would frequently crash in games. I had all power saving features disabled in the BIOS.
> 
> All things being exactly equal (same hsf, ram, PSU), when I switched to the crossblade, the deviations in clock rates ceased. 4.5 stayed rock solid at 4.5. Benches and games showed this to be true as well, as they improved in stability and performance, even though they were set up the same.
> 
> The D3H vrms were heatsinked and had great airflow, I have come to believe the 4+2 vrms weren't capable of maintaining that speed on my leaky chip.
> 
> So extropolating from this experience, from what you have described, you may have crappy vrms. Stable in p95, but bad in games.
> 
> Check AOD and see if you are getting frequency fluctuations while stress testing. If they are fluctuating, try down clocking/volting with all power saving features disabled, and see if there comes a point at which the fluctuating ceases. If so, it may be indicative of bad power delivery to the CPU.
> 
> The perfect storm, so to speak, would be somewhat underperforming vrms and a leaky chip combination, which may be the case if this experiment meets my predictions.
> 
> Its worth a shot, anyhow.


I was thinking mobo aswell based on a newegg review who had the same issues and blamed the vrms, If that's the case, what are my options? Tips on mobos, pref m-atx? My cpu isnt OCd as I wouldnt know what I was doing, I think the asrock turbo gets it to 4ghz every once in a while though. Also, as I asked, what kind of bios settings are we talking, turning off cool n quiet? Anything else?


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I just extracted the folder to a new folder on my desktop and run the shortcut. I wouldn't say yes or no that it replaces any of the old tried and true testing. It's totally something different. I'm new to it too so I'd like to hear your feedback.


I will definitely let you know.

As for my intial testing, I passed 10 runs of IBT set at "very high" @ 4.4ghz with 1.512v / 2133 ram / 1.8NB and thermals seemed to be in check.




At 4.5ghz with 1.512v IBT threw up a warning after two runs but did not crash the system, so I know I could theoretically be in range of stability at 4.5 but that is just probably hopeful thinking. At 4.4ghz with 1.512v I think there is a good possibility I could be overvolting, but I question myself as to how to go about this. Should I begin longterm testing at 4.4ghz with 1.512v with a possibility of overvolting then back down if need be, or do I start backing down the volts now to unstability and work back up to longterm testing? Or... am I just over thinking the process here...


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> I will definitely let you know.
> 
> As for my intial testing, I passed 10 runs of IBT set at "very high" @ 4.4ghz with 1.512v / 2133 ram / 1.8NB and thermals seemed to be in check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 4.5ghz with 1.512v IBT threw up a warning after two runs but did not crash the system, so I know I could theoretically be in range of stability at 4.5 but that is just probably hopeful thinking. At 4.4ghz with 1.512v I think there is a good possibility I could be overvolting, but I question myself as to how to go about this. Should I begin longterm testing at 4.4ghz with 1.512v with a possibility of overvolting, or do I start backing down the volts to unstability and work back up to longterm testing? Or... am I just over thinking the process here...


These CPUs really like cold. Normally we don't get real winter temps here on the Gulf of Mexico, but last month we had almost a week of subfreezing, so I left the window open by my rig, of course. and I was able to stabilize 4.5GHz at 1.56v. But now with warm spring temperatures I need to push about 1.63v to stabilize the same thing. So I just dialed it back to 4.2GHz 1.4v until I can hook up a refrigerant line, lol.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> These CPUs really like cold. Normally we don't get real winter temps here on the Gulf of Mexico, but last month we had almost a week of subfreezing, so I left the window open by my rig, of course. and I was able to stabilize 4.5GHz at 1.56v. But now with warm spring temperatures I need to push about 1.63v to stabilize the same thing. So I just dialed it back to 4.2GHz 1.4v until I can hook up a refrigerant line, lol.


Interesting indeed. Perhaps then I will stick to testing 4.4ghz as where I am it is about -20C and quite cool in my apartment. As for the stability testing, any thoughts on that?


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Harder than Richland, which was very easy to OC for most people. A little bit of experience with OC helps with Kaveri. But it's not like trying to overclock an i3 or a Kabini.
> 
> Don't be intimidated by it. If you buy a Kaveri and need help overclocking, that's what you have an OCN membership for.


Would the 760K be faster since it can clock higher than a 860K?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Would the 760K be faster since it can clock higher than a 860K?


I thought that myself for a long time, but no.

Farther back up this thread, I posted several benchmarks with the 860K and a 6800K (a 760K with a GPU, which was disabled for the tests) at the same clocks, and the 860K is significantly faster, even in the gaming scenarios. I've heard the difference is supposedly about 10 percent, but it was more like 15 percent in several scenarios I tested. You need at least an extra 400 MHz, and sometimes as much as 600, for a Piledriver chip to match a Steamroller. (It's slightly less on an FX, due to the FX having an L3 cache, which no APU's or Athlons have.) AMD improved both the single-core and floating-point performance of the design by a good margin in Kaveri.

If you have a good 760K that can get close to 5 GHz, then you need a pretty good 860K to beat it, but by and large, the 860K is a better choice and will almost always OC high enough to beat an overclocked 760K.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> But now with warm spring temperatures.


Spring? Glad you aren't in the northeast damric!


----------



## SYPH

Well I heard DX12 is gonna take use of multiple threads/core like Mantle so that means AMD's gaming performance and some bottlenecks will lessen.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Spring? Glad you aren't in the northeast damric!


It was 70F and sunny all weekend









Problem is that by the middle of May it will be oppressive heat and humidity until the end of October. It's like the summer that never goes away, but I'll take that over blizzards any day.

I think the only place with perfect weather is San Diego. I was lucky to live there for about 6 years.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> It was 70F and sunny all weekend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is that by the middle of May it will be oppressive heat and humidity until the end of October. It's like the summer that never goes away, but I'll take that over blizzards any day.
> 
> I think the only place with perfect weather is San Diego. I was lucky to live there for about 6 years.


I was down south in the USMC. I know how hot it can get.


----------



## p4inkill3r

Hey guys.

I just picked up an open box MSI A88X-G43 for $39 and I'm going to build an 860k for myself this time instead of for sale.


----------



## burrbit

I, for the life of me cannot get my 860k to stay stable over 4.0ghz with the ram clocked at 2133mhz. @ 1600mhz ram I could run prime 95% for 12 hours no problem (@4.4ghz). It seems like anything above 4.0ghz with 2133mhz my computer will randomly reboot. Even though I can stability test for 9 hours. Any ideas?

motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4 ATX
ram: HyperX Savage 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400
cpu cooler: zalman 9900max

Ive also ran memtest for 24 hours so I know the ram isnt erroring out.

Do I just have a bad chip or motherboard ya think?


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burrbit*
> 
> I, for the life of me cannot get my 860k to stay stable over 4.0ghz with the ram clocked at 2133mhz. @ 1600mhz ram I could run prime 95% for 12 hours no problem (@4.4ghz). It seems like anything above 4.0ghz with 2133mhz my computer will randomly reboot. Even though I can stability test for 9 hours. Any ideas?
> 
> motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4 ATX
> ram: HyperX Savage 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400
> cpu cooler: zalman 9900max
> 
> Ive also ran memtest for 24 hours so I know the ram isnt erroring out.
> 
> Do I just have a bad chip or motherboard ya think?


Well from what I read it seems even if you buy a RAM clocked @ 2400 out of the box it still won't be stable if overclocked


----------



## damric

Try 1.25v CPU-NB. G.Skill has been putting that in the spec lately.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newaes*
> 
> Hope I'm not overstepping here but I'm desperate and this thread looks like my best chance.
> 
> I just build my first setup , went with the 860k and I'm having some issues. Might aswell link you to my Toms Hardware post HERE so you've got the details.
> 
> As the absolute amateur I am, I'm still seeing this as a mobo issue. Found a youtuber who had a very similar setup 860k/280x and he was running Far Cry 4 and whatnot so I figured I'd buy the game and see if my problems was limited, this time, only to LoL. Iit is not. I can't even make it through the first cutscene before either the game stops responding or the whole computer freezes. I have never gotten any sort of error messages so perhaps it could be thermal throttling as I've read here that it seems somewhat common. Strange part is that I have made it through Furmark 20mins and 14hours of Prime95.
> 
> So my question to you guys, how do I setup my bios? What should be enabled/auto/disabled? Feel free to PM me if this thread isnt the place this.
> 
> Grateful for any help!


I have the same CPU/GPU combo, in Farcry 4 I get an average of 35 fps, with a variance of about 10, pretty nice actually, at Ultra settings. Too bad you're having problems with your setup.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burrbit*
> 
> I, for the life of me cannot get my 860k to stay stable over 4.0ghz with the ram clocked at 2133mhz. @ 1600mhz ram I could run prime 95% for 12 hours no problem (@4.4ghz). It seems like anything above 4.0ghz with 2133mhz my computer will randomly reboot. Even though I can stability test for 9 hours. Any ideas?
> 
> motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4 ATX
> ram: HyperX Savage 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400
> cpu cooler: zalman 9900max
> 
> Ive also ran memtest for 24 hours so I know the ram isnt erroring out.
> 
> Do I just have a bad chip or motherboard ya think?


''

Does that ram have AMP?


----------



## SYPH

We shouldn't worry about FPS since DX12 is gonna bring major improvements for APUs, IDK about FX processors though.


----------



## drmrlordx

A few random replies to stuff in this thread from over the past few days:

1). I'm not sure if we can make any projections about 28nm planar CPUs and current leakage based on how high they will overclock. Depending on the "normal" clockspeed wall for an average sample of Kaveri, a low-leaker chip might actually have a lower overall clockspeed wall (granted, we're talking a wall we might only reach under LN2) but better voltage characteristics at clockspeeds below a certain point. A low-leaker Kaveri might have excellent voltage characteristics up to, say, ~4.7 ghz, but top out at 5.1 ghz under LN2. Or in a worse scenario, it might have excellent voltage characteristics up to 4 ghz but top out at 4.3-4.4 ghz on air. In contrast, chips with lots of current leakage tend to clock freely, albeit with ugly voltage requirements. Think Pentium 4s, Bulldozer/Piledriver, stuff like that. All of AMD's 28nm planar CPUs are generally low on current leakage anyway, which contributes to their lower-than-Piledriver clockspeeds.

2). Beema is an excellent processor, though the die size should be quite a bit smaller than anything Kaveri. Beema is a 28nm Puma (so is Mullins). It's the same core that will apparently be going into Carrizo-L.

3). I have given a lot of thought as to whether or not I would consider Kaveri to be "hard to overclock". My experience was mostly easy, except where I made things difficult on myself. Even before I did a delid, hitting 4.5 ghz @ ~1.4125v vcore was a snap. All I had to do was bolt on the trusty ol nh-d14 I have had for years,do the usual CLU paintfest and viola, there it was. Never mind that the HSF is oversized for the application and that I'm pushing over 200 cfm of air through the fins with noisy, high-static-pressure fans while using a liquid metal TIM. I can get away with that since I've had all those parts (well, except the TIM) on hand since 2009. I also had the advantage of buying an A88x-Pro for $53, which was a stroke of luck. The Pro has proven to be an excellent overclocking motherboard that does nearly everything I would want it to do (no DDR3-2666 support is teh suk, but whatever, gotta pay a premium for that).

In contrast, the system I thought I was going to be getting was an a8-7600 plus the Asus A88XM-E. I would have been doing bclk overclocking on that thing. Life would have been much, much harder for me with that setup.

4). Future Kaveri chips will probably more resemble the 860k than older 7850ks that were used in a lot of Kaveri reviews/first impression articles. I think we'll see a fair number of 4.7-4.8 Kaveri refresh chips on good air or water. Now that people know more about the limitations of the chip and (more importantly) the limitations of certain FM2+ motherboards, we'll probably see better results. Hell I've got a 7700k with a 2013 manufacturing date on the lid and it'll do 4.7 ghz. Some of those 8850ks (or whatever they'll really be called at launch, 7950k maybe?) will probably do 5 ghz.


----------



## burrbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> ''
> 
> Does that ram have AMP?


XMP


----------



## IsaacM

Seems like a PSU issue. Have you fiddled with the voltages?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 2). Beema is an excellent processor, though the die size should be quite a bit smaller than anything Kaveri. Beema is a 28nm Puma (so is Mullins). It's the same core that will apparently be going into Carrizo-L.


so Puma is essentially Excavator?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> so Puma is essentially Excavator?


Nope. Puma is the latest "cat" core (the successor to Bobcat and Jaguar). To the best of my knowledge, the only products featuring it right now are Beema and Mullins. It'll be the core used in Carrizo-L. It was thought that "Puma+", an upgraded version of Puma, would go into Carrizo-L, but now all signs are pointing to it just being plain ol' Puma. Puma+ is supposed to show up in AMD's Nolan CPU.

Carrizo is Excavator, which which is the next-in-line "construction" core after Steamroller (used in Kaveri).

edited for word usage: play = plain. Typo!


----------



## 7850K

So I guess I'm confused as to the actual difference between Puma and Excavator cores. The articles I've read mostly compare Beema to it's predecessors. I thought it was interesting that they dropped the CMT modules. I wonder if they have that planned for Excavator also.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> So I guess I'm confused as to the actual difference between Puma and Excavator cores. The articles I've read mostly compare Beema to it's predecessors. I thought it was interesting that they dropped the CMT modules. I wonder if they have that planned for Excavator also.


Well, it's like this:

cat cores:

Bobcat (Brazos)->Jaguar(Kabini)->Puma(Beema, Mullins, Carrizo-L(?))->Puma+(Nolan(?))

construction cores:

Bulldozer(Zambezi)->bugfixed Bulldozer (Vishera, Trinity(?))->Piledriver(Richland)->Steamroller(Kaveri)->Excavator(Carrizo, Bristol Ridge(?))

The cat cores have never used CMT. They show up in low-power applications.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Ok, so I had backed down my voltage from 1.512v (1.496v under load) @4.4ghz down to 1.45v and worked my way back up. I managed 50 runs stable at very high (4096MB) with 1.50625v, only one notch below my original settings of 1.5125v. Interestingly enough look at the difference in Gflops with a slight bump in voltage.

4.4ghz @ 1.50625v (1.488v under load)


4.4ghz @ 1.5125v (1.496v under load)


So I guess I will now check for stability with P95 Large FFt's. If this chip behaves anything like my 760k it will need a bump or three in CPU core voltage for 24hour stability. Once I pass that I will start dialing in the voltage using a little LLC. Up next will work on a higher NB speed I guess...


----------



## SYPH

Anyone play any high demanding CPU games at Very High? If so what are the frames?


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Anyone play any high demanding CPU games at Very High? If so what are the frames?


Examples?


----------



## damric

I can barely get Far Cry 3 going at 60FPS (with vsynch) with Ultra settings with occasional dips to 45FPS. BF3 60FPS no problem. Skyrim 60FPS with occasional dips into the mid 40s. I am always a little behind on games because I am so cheap I wait for them to be $5 on Steam.


----------



## RaduZ

The GPU is pulling you down then, here are some of my results.
Skyrim with 50 mods, includeing 2k HD texture pack, enhanced lighting, enhanced water and 4K character skin texture pack and I get 60 fps constant.
Shadow of Mordor canned benchmark with all setings on max (without the high rez texture pack) 77 fps
Bioshock Infinite all at max 80-100fps it depends.
All this with a R9 285 @1050 MHz and an A10-7850K @ 4.3 Ghz (1080p)


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Anyone play any high demanding CPU games at Very High? If so what are the frames?


860k @ 4.5 Ghz + R9 280x

Arma 3 @1080P: ~25 FPS at Ultra and 16X MSAA and all the rest. I will vary about 8 fps in either direction.

Far Cry 4 @ 1080P: ~ 35 FPS at Ultra and all the AA turned up, variance of about 10 fps in either direction.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> Examples?


Like a 860K and a R9 290 or something playing at 1080P or higher at Very High Settings, any AAA games.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Hmmm.. kinda regretting selling my 760k atm... anyways, some strange things are happening which I don't understand. With my 760k the moment I used DOCP the NB voltage was set atomatically to 1.325V. With this Kaveri the NB voltage stays as is and the CPU core voltage is automatically set to 1.5125V.. Why is this?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Hmmm.. kinda regretting selling my 760k atm... anyways, some strange things are happening which I don't understand. With my 760k the moment I used DOCP the NB voltage was set atomatically to 1.325V. With this Kaveri the NB voltage stays as is and the CPU core voltage is automatically set to 1.5125V.. Why is this?


Yeah. I still have my 760K on back-up just in case I get annoyed with the 860K. And I was somewhat annoyed at first because it didn't hit as high of frequencies as my 760K. But it's been like two months now and I haven't swapped it back in so it must be doing something right.

I'm not sure about your NB voltage though. Maybe it needs it? Try a lower voltage. See what happens.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Yeah. I still have my 760K on back-up just in case I get annoyed with the 860K. And I was somewhat annoyed at first because it didn't hit as high of frequencies as my 760K. But it's been like two months now and I haven't swapped it back in so it must be doing something right.
> 
> I'm not sure about your NB voltage though. Maybe it needs it? Try a lower voltage. See what happens.


Yeah it is really strange, I don't know why using the 2400 DOCP profile would change the CPU core voltage from stock to 1.5125v and leave the NB voltage alone at 1800. Additionally, so far the most I have been able to get out of the NB is 2100 which is bleh... also, if I manually input 2400 and timings etc. everything stays right where it is.


----------



## ChickenCrackPie

Anyone here play Skyrim with lots of mods? Can you tell how many FPS you get on this chip?


----------



## HeadGear

I'm running 860k @ 4.5ghz daily, with xfire r9 270 2gb (1000/1450), my sig rig. I lost track of bench requests as the thread rolled along, if anyone wants me to run something, just ask, I pay close attention to this sub.


----------



## ChickenCrackPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> I'm running 860k @ 4.5ghz daily, with xfire r9 270 2gb (1000/1450), my sig rig. I lost track of bench requests as the thread rolled along, if anyone wants me to run something, just ask, I pay close attention to this sub.


Can you benchmark some AAA games and MMOs running at Very High/High settings?


----------



## ChickenCrackPie

Also for a gaming CPU on a budget, should I get this chip or the 8 Core?


----------



## Horsemama1956

Depends on what you want to spend and if you think 8 cores will help you in a game?


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChickenCrackPie*
> 
> Can you benchmark some AAA games and MMOs running at Very High/High settings?


I'll run what I got, ffxiv, shadow of mordor, and some others, I'm using a 2560*1080 display, but will run then at regular 1080p.


----------



## ChickenCrackPie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> I'll run what I got, ffxiv, shadow of mordor, and some others, I'm using a 2560*1080 display, but will run then at regular 1080p.


Oh i actually have a 21:9 monitor as well!


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChickenCrackPie*
> 
> Anyone here play Skyrim with lots of mods? Can you tell how many FPS you get on this chip?


Check 6 posts before this one.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChickenCrackPie*
> 
> Oh i actually have a 21:9 monitor as well!


Well, heres a quickie response, wont have time tonight for much else.
Shadow of Mordor built in Benchmark:

Very high Preset 2560x1080
Average: 72.20fps
Max: 188.12
Min: 34.46

In reality, playing with custom simalr to the very high preset, I get a steady 70fps or so, with some dips into the 50s during intense multi-mob battles.


----------



## ChickenCrackPie

Thanks


----------



## SYPH

Has anyone tried 1440p gaming with this chip?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Anyone use the Biostar Hi-Fi A88W 3D motherboard before? Supposedly a 6+1/6+2 Power Phase design and it's only $80 at Newegg. Going to be building someone a PC late march and thinking of going with that mobo if I go with the 860K. Seems like a decent board from reviews.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Anyone use the Biostar Hi-Fi A88W 3D motherboard before? Supposedly a 6+1/6+2 Power Phase design and it's only $80 at Newegg. Going to be building someone a PC late march and thinking of going with that mobo if I go with the 860K. Seems like a decent board from reviews.


I only saw four chokes near the mosfet heatsink. Certainly doesn't look like 6+2 to me.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Anyone use the Biostar Hi-Fi A88W 3D motherboard before? Supposedly a 6+1/6+2 Power Phase design and it's only $80 at Newegg. Going to be building someone a PC late march and thinking of going with that mobo if I go with the 860K. Seems like a decent board from reviews.


Biostar usually has great VRM components, even if it is only 4 phases it should be adequate. RAM abilities is a different story though.


----------



## jsc1973

It's a 4 plus 2 board. But it has very strong VRM's, like all higher-end Biostar products. They like to go for quality over quantity in the power phasing. One of the reviews of that board showed it hitting 4.9 on a 6800K easily and later hitting 5.0.

Looks like a good deal, especially with the upgraded sound components. You won't need anything but onboard for good sound on that board.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It's a 4 plus 2 board. But it has very strong VRM's, like all higher-end Biostar products. They like to go for quality over quantity in the power phasing. One of the reviews of that board showed it hitting 4.9 on a 6800K easily and later hitting 5.0.
> 
> Looks like a good deal, especially with the upgraded sound components. You won't need anything but onboard for good sound on that board.


Thanks for that. I did see about the 6800K running 4.9GHz and 5GHz. Still not sure about the Power Phases. In general I see Biostar and other websites use the term '6 Phase CPU Power Design' and one particular website (Techpowerup) describes the Power Design as 6 for CPU, 1 for FCH, and 1 for Memory making it 6+2 or 6+1+1? What I can get from the reviews are that it's a quality board. Never owned a Biostar board or purchased one but this may be the first.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I only saw four chokes near the mosfet heatsink. Certainly doesn't look like 6+2 to me.


I see 6 chokes under the mosfet heatsink, I think. Now whether that means it's 4 for CPU and 2 others is another thing.


----------



## HeadGear

Installing Windows 8.1 tomorrow, M$ planned obsolesence is biting me hard on my Win7 Ultimate (constant failed updates requiring hours of fixing to make work every month is annoying) and I got a license for $20 euros off Ebay from a reputable seller, enabling me to jump to Windows 10 with low levels of annoyance (hopefully).

I guess the eventual lure of DX12 and the obvious make-work approach to support of Win7 since official support ended earlier this year pushed me over the edge.

Unofficial poll... who is using win7, win8, win8.1 etc with Kaveri, and how has it treated you?


----------



## 7850K

just switched to 8.1 from 7 last week. I can't find a downside. After setting it up, I now prefer the start tile splash screen to the old start menu. Things like an Integrated dual monitor taskbar and a leagues better resource monitor were a pleasant surprise as well.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> just switched to 8.1 from 7 last week. I can't find a downside. After setting it up, I now prefer the start tile slash screen to the old start menu. Things like an Integrated dual monitor taskbar and a leagues better resource monitor were a pleasant surprise as well.


Got to say I thought the same going from Windows 7. Don't know if it's because I used 8 since the Dev Preview but I got used to the changes very quickly and honestly feel I can do things more quickly now. My most favorite thing is Windows + X that brings up a small menu that provides access to things like Device Manager, Control Panel, Command Prompt, etc which I use often


----------



## Grimlock7

I have 860k and R9 270x and as I found out this CPU could bottleneck this card in certain CPU heavy scenarios. Like advanced warfare - there are a lot of places when 860k overclocked to 4.3 could't sustain 60 fps, but the graphic card could with different intel cpu, even i3. these concerns mainly amd graphic cards because as some think unoptimised driver, it happens less with nvidia cards. there are some other cpu heavy games too like dying light where tis problem also occurs


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grimlock7*
> 
> I have 860k and R9 270x and as I found out this CPU could bottleneck this card in certain CPU heavy scenarios. Like advanced warfare - there are a lot of places when 860k overclocked to 4.3 could't sustain 60 fps, but the graphic card could with different intel cpu, even i3. these concerns mainly amd graphic cards because as some think unoptimised driver, it happens less with nvidia cards. there are some other cpu heavy games too like dying light where tis problem also occurs


Sorry but that CPU doesn't bottleneck anything, I have a R9 285 and im playing games just fine on 1080p with max setings 9.9/10 times.

Oh and before you sugest I am not monitoring CPU usage I am, I use MSI AB for my GPU OC and I also use it to monitor my PC stats.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> The GPU is pulling you down then, here are some of my results.
> Skyrim with 50 mods, includeing 2k HD texture pack, enhanced lighting, enhanced water and 4K character skin texture pack and I get 60 fps constant.
> Shadow of Mordor canned benchmark with all setings on max (without the high rez texture pack) 77 fps
> Bioshock Infinite all at max 80-100fps it depends.
> All this with a R9 285 @1050 MHz and an A10-7850K @ 4.3 Ghz (1080p)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> Sorry but that CPU doesn't bottleneck anything, I have a R9 285 and im playing games just fine on 1080p with max setings 9.9/10 times.
> 
> Oh and before you sugest I am not monitoring CPU usage I am, I use MSI AB for my GPU OC and I also use it to monitor my PC stats.


It would seem like you don't notice how CPUs can choke on game engines causing minimum FPS dips. This happens with all CPUs when in busy parts of games, and stronger CPUs handle it better than weaker CPUs. I can teach you how to observe that if you desire to learn.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Unofficial poll... who is using win7, win8, win8.1 etc with Kaveri, and how has it treated you?


I have used Kaveri (A10-7700k) under Win7 and Win10. I still have Win10 9926 on one of the drives in my Kaveri system. I haven't had any major driver conflicts or other problems with Win10 yet, and with the latest release, a lot of the performance problems under Win10 were ironed out. In fact, Win10 9926 is now faster for 3DMark2013/2014, 3DMark11, 3DMark Vantage, all four Unigine tests, and linpack according to my tests.


----------



## Horsemama1956

You guys saying it doesn't bottleneck at all are just flat out lying? AMD is not good in plenty of games, Skyrim being a major one. You can not maintain 60+ fps in a big town with an AMD CPU, even though my old i5 750 could. You can't say you get such and such fps when it's impossible to do so.

Unless you completely max your games(your GPUs aren't strong enough for this with decent performance) instead of appropriate settings to get a smooth experience, there is no way to say they don't bottleneck. The 860K is only like 0-5% faster than the previous generation FM2 Athlons in gaming. most of the fixes AMD applied to Kaveri show in benchmarks\Productivity apps\media encoding only.

An i3 4160 will most likely outperform a 4.5Ghz Athlon regardless of if it's Kaveri or not in every game recently released.

Doesn't mean they're bad CPUs though. I'm thinking of grabbing the 870K and one of the new AMD GPUs this summer, as I don't care too spend much on gaming anymore.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> You guys saying it doesn't bottleneck at all are just flat out lying? AMD is not good in plenty of games, Skyrim being a major one. You can not maintain 60+ fps in a big town with an AMD CPU, even though my old i5 750 could. You can't say you get such and such fps when it's impossible to do so.
> 
> Unless you completely max your games(your GPUs aren't strong enough for this with decent performance) instead of appropriate settings to get a smooth experience, there is no way to say they don't bottleneck. The 860K is only like 0-5% faster than the previous generation FM2 Athlons in gaming. most of the fixes AMD applied to Kaveri show in benchmarks\Productivity apps\media encoding only.
> 
> An i3 4160 will most likely outperform a 4.5Ghz Athlon regardless of if it's Kaveri or not in every game recently released.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're bad CPUs though. I'm thinking of grabbing the 870K and one of the new AMD GPUs this summer, as I don't care too spend much on gaming anymore.


The real problem lies with the use of the term bottleneck. Its relative. Crank up the graphics settings high enough and your CPU will not be the relative limiting factor, regardless of what it is.

I hate the word, it implies a weakness in a piece of hardware, when in reality it is a misbalancing of settings. All hardware combinations can be balanced to achieve a certain best case scenario, but that is an average that denies the priorities of the user.

My point is, the word is dirty, and disregards the core nature of PC gaming - customization and prioritization. Eye of the beholder applies, and all too often the word bottleneck is used to describe a misuse of available hardware, not an actual deficiency.


----------



## Grimlock7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> It would seem like you don't notice how CPUs can choke on game engines causing minimum FPS dips. This happens with all CPUs when in busy parts of games, and stronger CPUs handle it better than weaker CPUs. I can teach you how to observe that if you desire to learn.


Yeah. It's clearly there. There are many places in COD advanced warfare campaign where cpu holds things down. I've checked it myself. For example at one place in a game I running it at 3.7 I have around 40 fps, when I set it to 4.3 I have 45 - it definetely shows that cpu is not powerful enough and causing a slowdown..because on I5 with the same r9 270x in that place that card can sustain 60 fps no problem.
You can read about this problem here at the end of article

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-graphics-card-upgrade-guide?page=2

Another problem nowadays is vram because 2 gb is not enough already for 1080p because consoles have huge unified memory poll. So when you set textures on extra in advanced warfare with 2 gb you have unplayable stuttering. Now 4 gb card is minimum for future-proof card. If I knew this before I would have bought r9 270x 4gb instead of 2gb


----------



## 7850K

that eurogamer article doesnt even mention the 860K once.

this guy has no problem @4.2GHz and an HD7870 getting 62FPS average in 1080p (CoD Advanced warfare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTKtlSflB2A
Quote:


> The 860K is only like 0-5% faster than the previous generation FM2 Athlons in gaming.


difference between steamroller and piledriver modules as observed by *mdocod*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Yasunori/steamroller-piledriver_zpstzkqnjvz.jpg
Piledriver needs 800Mhz over steamroller to just to match throughput.
explain how games ignore this?


----------



## Grimlock7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> that eurogamer article doesnt even mention the 860K once.
> 
> this guy has no problem @4.2GHz and an HD7870 getting 62FPS average in 1080p (CoD Advanced warfare)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTKtlSflB2A
> difference between steamroller and piledriver modules as observed by *mdocod*
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Yasunori/steamroller-piledriver_zpstzkqnjvz.jpg
> Piledriver needs 800Mhz over steamroller to just to match throughput.
> explain how games ignore this?


we are not talking about average fps..I also have averagre fps in COD AV beyond 60..we are talking about some places in game where the load on cpu is heavy and it's dropping frames to 40 and below..and there are a lot places like this. but on i3 there are not such performance penalty..it probably because i3 single thread is faster. I mean that on i5 for example 60 fps in COD AV would be consistent. rarely dropping brlow 50 but on 860k it occurs very often. it depends on a mission..there are some problematic missions in campaign with heavier cpu load..


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Piledriver needs 800Mhz over steamroller to just to match throughput.
> explain how games ignore this?


Probably with branchy code that is not terribly well-optimized for use with any kind of SIMD instruction. There's also probably a large working set and/or lots of cache thrashing. I've produced some truly hideous loop code before that did some of the latter (cache thrashing, plus some other no-nos like computations involving float variables at Infinity and integer rollovers, both in Java) and the Intel chips that I saw were much better at handling my garbage code. Hyperthreading also made things less problematic. You can read some of what went on here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2400791


----------



## burrbit

This thread is getting pretty lengthy, I think its time we get a chart of our 860k final overclock results.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burrbit*
> 
> This thread is getting pretty lengthy, I think its time we get a chart of our 860k final overclock results.


Should be the owners club.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I am always a little behind on games because I am so cheap I wait for them to be $5 on Steam.


I like that philosophy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> I see 6 chokes under the mosfet heatsink, I think. Now whether that means it's 4 for CPU and 2 others is another thing.


Yes, six. Meaning it is "4+2". Not 6+2 as stated earlier.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> You guys saying it doesn't bottleneck at all are just flat out lying?


I can't speak for anyone else here, but every benchmark I've posted is real. I ran a few gaming-related scenarios, but on a 6970, they don't really have much value to a hard-core gamer, who would have moved on to a faster card by now. For the workloads I typically run, this chip's performance is more like what its Passmark suite suggests, and it's the equal of a stock Intel i5.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Probably with branchy code that is not terribly well-optimized for use with any kind of SIMD instruction. There's also probably a large working set and/or lots of cache thrashing. I've produced some truly hideous loop code before that did some of the latter (cache thrashing, plus some other no-nos like computations involving float variables at Infinity and integer rollovers, both in Java) and the Intel chips that I saw were much better at handling my garbage code. Hyperthreading also made things less problematic. You can read some of what went on here:
> 
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2400791


Intels do tend to handle crummy code better, that's true. I'm sure it gives them an advantage in gaming, especially on something like Skyrim that couldn't be coded worse for x86 desktop platforms if the devil himself had coded it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burrbit*
> 
> This thread is getting pretty lengthy, I think its time we get a chart of our 860k final overclock results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Should be the owners club.
Click to expand...

All in favor of those proposals, and it might be of help to anyone new to the chip. I see people asking questions here and elsewhere that were answered hundreds of posts ago.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I like that philosophy.
> Yes, six. Meaning it is "4+2". Not 6+2 as stated earlier.


Yeah I notice that motherboards put both CPU and Memory chokes next to the CPU. Was like that for all my motherboards and even most others that I viewed online. I wonder if some motherboards put some mosfet components in other parts of the board though. There's conflicting data on whether it's 6 (4+2) or 6+2. If it's 4+2 than I wonder why some places name it a 6-Phase CPU Power Phase, and why one site says there is 6 Phases for the CPU and 2 for others. Anyway better make your post more clear. Some people won't be able to connect 4 Chokes with 4+2 Power Phase. Obviously there is 6 total chokes not 4.


----------



## SYPH

I'm more interested in FPS/Benchmarks of people with 860K with a 970 or R9 290 on the latest AAA games at max settings. Though the 860K takes a long time to match stock i5 with stability testing and such


----------



## YGFamily

can someone do some gaming benchmarks on some popular games at max settings?


----------



## YGFamily

Any here have a A88XM gaming board? The USB port can't seem to read my flashdrive to install Windows 8.1 Pro (Student discounted)


----------



## Redwoodz

Try Legacy Boot mode,or Legacy + UEFI.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

I'm thinking of picking up the 860k to use in an ITX box and have a few questions if someone would be so kind. There seems to be only 3 ITX A88x motherboards currently on the market. MSI Gigabyte and Asrock have one each.

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/A88XI_AC.html#hero-overview

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5139/3/mini-itx-boards-for-amd-kaveri-review-asrock-fm2a88x-itx+-vs-gigabyte-f2a88xn-wifi-gigabyte-f2a88xn-wifi

I realize that I won't be overclocking to the absolute limits here but can anyone advise as to which board might give me the best chance. I had kind of discounted the Asrock as it doesnt have any VRM heatsink although it does have 6 phases according to the review above same as the Gigabyte, both the MSI and Gigabyte have heatsinks but the MSI looks to have only 4+1 phases. I'm by no means an expert on VRM's yet so correct me if I'm wrong.

I also understand that the number of phases isnt always the be all and end all and that quality matters. Interested to hear which board anyone else here in my situation went for or which you would go for in my postion.

I'm really going for this as I would like the chance to play with a more recent AMD chip and I'm also interested in a ball park of how far I would be able to push the chip for 24/7 with an ITX setup the best of the 3 mobos above and initially something like a Cryorig C1

http://www.cryorig.com/c1.php

I intend to put it under a small custom loop eventually with a GTX750ti or anything else that comes about with such good performance per watt in the next few months. Using the Thermaltake Core V1 as a case ( I already have it) http://thermaltakeusa.com/Chassis/Mini_Case_/_/C_00002373/Core_V1/design.htm
I can fit a maxiumum of 2x140 rads with some small mods, or possibly a 140 and a dual 80mm in the back. Am I likely to be limited by the VRM setup before temperatures in that case? How much heat do these chips generate compared to say an I5?

Thanks for reading


----------



## damric

Go with the Asrock. It has ALC 1150. Just don't overclock on that board.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Go with the Asrock. It has ALC 1150. Just don't overclock on that board.


OK, well I actually want to overclock. Are you saying its not worth trying to overclock an 860k on any MITX board?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> OK, well I actually want to overclock. Are you saying its not worth trying to overclock an 860k on any MITX board?


It's probably not even worth getting an 860K if you really want to overclock. They are poor clockers.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> It's probably not even worth getting an 860K if you really want to overclock. They are poor clockers.


So you would suggest a 760k? It's not like I want to be posting up for O/C records I'm just interested in the process itself and using something different. I'm not bothered about the onboard sound it's only going under the TV for a bit of sofa gaming with a controller. Its just a hobby box.

What I dont want to find is that I buy a board with a bad VRM and it blows up after 6 months or that I cant overclock it at all safely.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> So you would suggest a 760k? It's not like I want to be posting up for O/C records I'm just interested in the process itself and using something different. I'm not bothered about the onboard sound it's only going under the TV for a bit of sofa gaming with a controller. Its just a hobby box.
> 
> What I dont want to find is that I buy a board with a bad VRM and it blows up after 6 months or that I cant overclock it at all safely.


The 760K has more headroom but in the end they will end up with about the same performance when both are at maximum overclock. I'd still get the 860K.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Ok cheers. I was hoping that someone here had overclocked one using an MITX board, or if someone knew more in detail which one might be better VRM wise.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Ok cheers. I was hoping that someone here had overclocked one using an MITX board, or if someone knew more in detail which one might be better VRM wise.


I should have approaced this in two ways.

1) logically: you say you also plan on watercooling, ect. By the time you buy all of that you might as well have bought an intel mini-itx board and an i3 or i5 anyway. Those perform better at stock than any Athlon at typical max overclock during almost all gaming and workloads.

2) what you really want: you want all that water cooling and the ability to overclock because it's cool and you can show it off. I get it. mini-itx form factor is going to be an uphill battle for obvious reasons already, but you could probably still pull it off. You might have more fun with the 760K for this.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I should have approaced this in two ways.
> 
> 1) logically: you say you also plan on watercooling, ect. By the time you buy all of that you might as well have bought an intel mini-itx board and an i3 or i5 anyway. Those perform better at stock than any Athlon at typical max overclock during almost all gaming and workloads.
> 
> 2) what you really want: you want all that water cooling and the ability to overclock because it's cool and you can show it off. I get it. mini-itx form factor is going to be an uphill battle for obvious reasons already, but you could probably still pull it off. You might have more fun with the 760K for this.


Thanks for giving it some thought for me. I know that Intel is generally faster, as I said its really a hobby box. I havent watercooled before and I havent overclocked an AMD CPU, the fact I can do both and have a decent little gaming box as well really appeals more then just getting another I5. I did consider the G3258 but I've seen a couple of games starting to need 4 threads now to even start up and also, well I just want something completely different to play with. Even if I went with the G3258 I would probably watercool it. I understand it is completely unneccessary.

I also want it to work well and stably because the wife will be surfing the net with it at times, hence my question about the motherboards. If I can't overclock on MITX solidly I will probably go Intel. I dont need to set records I just want it to be solid at a reasonable overclock, is it possible with a 860k on an MITX?

I've seen a couple of guys using my case with custom loops that look great, and yea sure I want to build it to show off a bit, to just learn how to, and really because I like the planning and reading and messing around with stuff. Maybe I'll grow out of it or maybe it's an early mid life crisis, who knows.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

So how high is too high on the Vcore for the 860k? Opinions needed.


----------



## damric

Those FM2+ mini-itx boards don't look very great for OC. We need more opinions on this and some more time to think about it.

I have a Pentium 3258 in my mini-itx rig, but I don't use it for heavy gaming.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> I also want it to work well and stably because the wife will be surfing the net with it at times, hence my question about the motherboards. If I can't overclock on MITX solidly I will probably go Intel. I dont need to set records I just want it to be solid at a reasonable overclock, is it possible with a 860k on an MITX?
> 
> I've seen a couple of guys using my case with custom loops that look great, and yea sure I want to build it to show off a bit, to just learn how to, and really because I like the planning and reading and messing around with stuff. Maybe I'll grow out of it or maybe it's an early mid life crisis, who knows.


Hi,

From my side I can barely touch the 4.3 Ghz without throttling in my small micro ATX case. I don't recommand to try a 860K in a MITX case...


----------



## nakano2k1

Well, I finally decided to get rid of my 860k and go back to
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> From my side I can barely touch the 4.3 Ghz without throttling in my small micro ATX case. I don't recommand to try a 860K in a MITX case...


Did you disable APM? Did you overclock the northbridge? What kind of voltages are you using?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> So how high is too high on the Vcore for the 860k? Opinions needed.


Breakdown voltage is supposedly 1.49v. That's an estimate, and if you got a golden sample you might be able to push more without lasting harm. Personally I think the crew pushing 1.55v+ is crazy. The highest I'll go for benchmarking on my Kaveri is 1.525v, and I expect that I would treat an 860k the same way.

Had I not gone to so much trouble to cool my chip "on a budget", I would not even go that high for benchmarking. 1.45v or lower is probably a safe bet as long as you can keep the temps down.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> Did you disable APM? Did you overclock the northbridge? What kind of voltages are you using?


I have addedn a 6mm fan blowing from outside onto the VRMs.
APM disabled. No overclock on northbridge.

I can get :
4.0 Ghz with offset at -0.006 , LLC off (regular)
4.2 Ghz with offset at +0.018, LLC off (regular)
4.3 Ghz with Offset of +0.04 or +0.012 /LLC medium.
If voltage go higher, I see throttling under prime95.

But I have also big limit with my 400W PSU ! when adding GPU load (R7 265), knowing that the heat of CPU is going through it doesn't help for the efficiency. I cannot get a reproductible CPU+GPU bench result...
I am looking for putting in my antec HCG520 from my gaming rig. Need to buy a replacement for it first ( the gaming rig will get upgrade from gtx560ti to R9 290 / R9 380)


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I have addedn a 6mm fan blowing from outside onto the VRMs.
> APM disabled. No overclock on northbridge.
> 
> I can get :
> 4.0 Ghz with offset at -0.006 , LLC off (regular)
> 4.2 Ghz with offset at +0.018, LLC off (regular)
> 4.3 Ghz with Offset of +0.04 or +0.012 /LLC medium.
> If voltage go higher, I see throttling under prime95.
> 
> But I have also big limit with my 400W PSU ! when adding GPU load (R7 265), knowing that the heat of CPU is going through it doesn't help for the efficiency. I cannot get a reproductible CPU+GPU bench result...
> I am looking for putting in my antec HCG520 from my gaming rig. Need to buy a replacement for it first ( the gaming rig will get upgrade from gtx560ti to R9 290 / R9 380)


Hi, thanks for the reply!

I'm actually more confident now you've said that







Your Sugo is a HTPC type case with only 3 80mm fan spaces. My case is smaller but has a 200mm fan vent on the whole front of the case, two of the sides are pretty much 50% vent and the back has 2 80mm fans. Also the Gigabyte ITX board I'm leaning towards on paper has slightly better power delivery then your mobo, so if you are able to get a small overclock I'm thinking maybe I can do a little something here.

If anyone has used the Gigabyte F2A88XN-wifi I'm still interested to hear. Thanks


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Breakdown voltage is supposedly 1.49v. That's an estimate, and if you got a golden sample you might be able to push more without lasting harm. Personally I think the crew pushing 1.55v+ is crazy. The highest I'll go for benchmarking on my Kaveri is 1.525v, and I expect that I would treat an 860k the same way.
> 
> Had I not gone to so much trouble to cool my chip "on a budget", I would not even go that high for benchmarking. 1.45v or lower is probably a safe bet as long as you can keep the temps down.


As cheap as 860K's are, I don't know how much I would worry about it. If you run 1.55v on it, it's going to degrade quickly, but if you're not planning on using it long-term, it doesn't make much difference.

I've got mine set at 1.525v, but it runs at 1.512 actual voltage on my board. The main problem is that it seems like most people have to turn off the p-states in the BIOS to OC these, so their chip runs at 1.5-plus all of the time, and most of the Kaveri chips are low leakers, so the silicon is just eating that voltage. The one I have is atypical in both regards; it went right to 4.5 with all of the p-states still active (although that may be more a credit to the motherboard than the chip), and it's a high leaker that runs close to its thermal limits under load, on a Megahalems, at 4.5. Most of these seem to run fairly cool at 4.5 on nothing more than a 212 Evo.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> If anyone has used the Gigabyte F2A88XN-wifi I'm still interested to hear. Thanks


Be careful with the bios version when buying your motherboard, you may have some issue if you get an old card...


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Be careful with the bios version when buying your motherboard, you may have some issue if you get an old card...


Understood, there's a shop near me anyway so Im sure I can work something out if its a problem with the Bios.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Breakdown voltage is supposedly 1.49v. That's an estimate


Hmmm.... thats kinda weak. I guess 4.3-4.4ghz is all I will get out of this chip then. Makes me wonder though, I left P95 running all night when trying to stabilize 4.4 @ 1.525 to awake to a running but froze up PC with a black screen. I was using LLC too on medium and I know sometimes it has a tendancy to overshoot. I decided to leave it at stock until I get some more info on voltage limits, but it has been acting kinda funky since. Wonder if I did some damage.

I ended up acquiring a used 760k this last week. Hasn't been OC'ed at all. Wonder if I will have better luck with it instead.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I have addedn a 6mm fan blowing from outside onto the VRMs.
> APM disabled. No overclock on northbridge.
> 
> I can get :
> 4.0 Ghz with offset at -0.006 , LLC off (regular)
> 4.2 Ghz with offset at +0.018, LLC off (regular)
> 4.3 Ghz with Offset of +0.04 or +0.012 /LLC medium.
> If voltage go higher, I see throttling under prime95.


Is it throttling from thermal margin getting too close to 80? Or is the thermal margin acceptably low? I have had at least one occasion (running Furmark and Prime95 small FFTs @ 4.7 ghz, 2100 mhz NB, 1028 mhz iGPU) when P4 state throttling occurred. I was able to solve it using amdmsrtweaker. All I did was set [email protected] and bam throttling stopped. Throttling like that will occur whether or not you have power saving features enabled, so tweaking the p-states is still useful. Same as the p5 throttling during iGPU usage.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> As cheap as 860K's are, I don't know how much I would worry about it. If you run 1.55v on it, it's going to degrade quickly, but if you're not planning on using it long-term, it doesn't make much difference.
> 
> I've got mine set at 1.525v, but it runs at 1.512 actual voltage on my board. The main problem is that it seems like most people have to turn off the p-states in the BIOS to OC these, so their chip runs at 1.5-plus all of the time, and most of the Kaveri chips are low leakers, so the silicon is just eating that voltage. The one I have is atypical in both regards; it went right to 4.5 with all of the p-states still active (although that may be more a credit to the motherboard than the chip), and it's a high leaker that runs close to its thermal limits under load, on a Megahalems, at 4.5. Most of these seem to run fairly cool at 4.5 on nothing more than a 212 Evo.


860ks are pretty cheap. If you don't mind burning one out then by all means. I want to make my Kaveri last a little while, especially since drop-in Carrizo replacements on FM2+ don't seem to be happening anytime soon, if ever. Probably never.

The issue of turning off p-states is probably more related to the board. Keeping p-states active does not affect any overclocking on my A88x-Pro. I can hit 4.7 ghz with all power-saving features enabled.

Also, don't be sure that your chip is a high-leakage chip. It could be an IHS/TIM gap issue. But finding out the truth of that would require a delid, and that can be a rocky road to travel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Hmmm.... thats kinda weak. I guess 4.3-4.4ghz is all I will get out of this chip then. Makes me wonder though, I left P95 running all night when trying to stabilize 4.4 @ 1.525 to awake to a running but froze up PC with a black screen. I was using LLC too on medium and I know sometimes it has a tendancy to overshoot. I decided to leave it at stock until I get some more info on voltage limits, but it has been acting kinda funky since. Wonder if I did some damage.
> 
> I ended up acquiring a used 760k this last week. Hasn't been OC'ed at all. Wonder if I will have better luck with it instead.


It is possible that you put a little sizzle on that chip. I've done it before. My x2-3600+'s IMC got a bit cranky after I foolishly ran my memory at "enthusiast" voltage levels without raising vcore (which was a no-no back then, and is still a no-no now though now you have to raise CPU-NB instead), and my Sempron 140 got weird after one too many SuperPi runs @ 1.59v vcore. Whether or not you did any real, lasting damage has a lot to do with how well you kept the chip cooled during your Prime run. Yeah, voltage eats chips, but it eats them faster at higher temperatures.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I want to make my Kaveri last a little while, especially since drop-in Carrizo replacements on FM2+ don't seem to be happening


Yeah probably not happening like you and I are thinking. As far as leaks go Carrizo will only release to desktops when they release the new FM3 socket which may be used for both Carrizo and Zen based CPUs. Though this is just leaked unconfirmed information. Real information will probably be available when they release the new Roadmaps in May. Best FM2+ will get is probably the Kaveri Refresh which may not be worth it.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> It is possible that you put a little sizzle on that chip. I've done it before. My x2-3600+'s IMC got a bit cranky after I foolishly ran my memory at "enthusiast" voltage levels without raising vcore (which was a no-no back then, and is still a no-no now though now you have to raise CPU-NB instead), and my Sempron 140 got weird after one too many SuperPi runs @ 1.59v vcore. Whether or not you did any real, lasting damage has a lot to do with how well you kept the chip cooled during your Prime run. Yeah, voltage eats chips, but it eats them faster at higher temperatures.


Thank you for your input. I have a Noctua D14, and have never seen anything under it go over 50C. If I did do some damage, I might as well keep going =)


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 860ks are pretty cheap. If you don't mind burning one out then by all means. I want to make my Kaveri last a little while, especially since drop-in Carrizo replacements on FM2+ don't seem to be happening anytime soon, if ever. Probably never.
> 
> The issue of turning off p-states is probably more related to the board. Keeping p-states active does not affect any overclocking on my A88x-Pro. I can hit 4.7 ghz with all power-saving features enabled.
> 
> Also, don't be sure that your chip is a high-leakage chip. It could be an IHS/TIM gap issue. But finding out the truth of that would require a delid, and that can be a rocky road to travel.


It's possible it's just badly applied TIM. Something makes it run unusually warm compared to most 860K's. It runs at 4.5 stable and I can live with that, though. If 1.51v kills it before I'm ready to move on, I'll just get another one, but I don't think it will.

I said I was pretty sure the motherboard was allowing me to retain the low-power states. I'm running on the same board.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah probably not happening like you and I are thinking. As far as leaks go Carrizo will only release to desktops when they release the new FM3 socket which may be used for both Carrizo and Zen based CPUs. Though this is just leaked unconfirmed information. Real information will probably be available when they release the new Roadmaps in May. Best FM2+ will get is probably the Kaveri Refresh which may not be worth it.


if the leaked information is true, the 860K is probably going to be the best we get. The "Godavari" 870K chip is supposedly a two-module 95W chip with a 3.5 GHz base clock and a turbo of 3.7. If that's true, though, I don't even understand why AMD would bother releasing it. Unless it's a ridiculous overclocker, it would be a downgrade from what's already available. At least the 8850K is supposed to turbo 100 MHz higher than the 8750.


----------



## drmrlordx

Godavari isn't the actual name of the Kaveri refresh chips anyway, and some of those SKUs look a little bit off. As for Carrizo on FM3, it's more likely to be a non-HDL Excavator chip (just my guess) with no on-die FCH named Bristol Ridge. Thanks to Carrizo's intense focus on low-power efficiency, it will probably never be all that great of a desktop CPU except for SFF/UCFF setups.


----------



## IsaacM

At 1440p
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> So how high is too high on the Vcore for the 860k? Opinions needed.


I was stable at 1.59 volts, but I also had an H100i to keep temps under control. I tried 1.7 volts once (to try and stabilize 4.6 GHz) , but it quickly hit the wall and shut down my system.


----------



## killerxx8

Hello everyone i am very new to this forum just join, well this is actually the first forum ive ever joined.
Anyways ive been having some extreme difficulty overclocking my anthlon 860k it seems stable at 4.1ghz(boost) with 1900mhz NB. Thats not what i was expecting at all i would be happy with 2000-2100mhz NB and at least 4.3-4-4ghz my temp hover around 67-70 full load which is pretty cool i think for AMD. I have been tweaking the volts for about 2 weeks but nothing can get it stable at 2000mhz NB or even 4.3 ghz. Its really riding me up the wall.

edit: i had it running at 4.3 with 2000 NB was fine restarted it now on defualts its crashing(screen freezing up).

system specs:

CPU: anthon 860k
RAM: 8g 2400mhz but cant run it over 1866 -.-
GPU: gtx 960
PSU: 460w
MB: ga-f2a88xm-d3h


----------



## DannyDK

Have you updated the BIOS on the motherboard?
What is the voltage for the NB, CPU and RAM?
From what i can see on the pictures of your board, it dosnt have heatsinks for the mosfets so maybe they are getting to hot?


----------



## damric

Try 1.25v NB and 1.65v RAM.


----------



## DannyDK

And some 1.5 for the CPU


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Is it throttling from thermal margin getting too close to 80? Or is the thermal margin acceptably low? I have had at least one occasion (running Furmark and Prime95 small FFTs @ 4.7 ghz, 2100 mhz NB, 1028 mhz iGPU) when P4 state throttling occurred. I was able to solve it using amdmsrtweaker. All I did was set [email protected] and bam throttling stopped. Throttling like that will occur whether or not you have power saving features enabled, so tweaking the p-states is still useful. Same as the p5 throttling during iGPU usage.
> 860ks are pretty cheap. If you don't mind burning one out then by all means. I want to make my Kaveri last a little while, especially since drop-in Carrizo replacements on FM2+ don't seem to be happening anytime soon, if ever. Probably never.
> 
> The issue of turning off p-states is probably more related to the board. Keeping p-states active does not affect any overclocking on my A88x-Pro. I can hit 4.7 ghz with all power-saving features enabled.


Hi,

Thanks for the proposal for the P States fixes. But I think it is more related to internal CPU temp now. Throttling is happening when Thermal Margin (seen on Coretemp) is going to reach below 5deg. I will try to respread thermal paste on my CPU. I tried the cross application instead of spreading as I always did.
Maybe that's why the package temperature is so high

But at last I feel I have got some reliable values for the voltages with reproductible benches :

4Ghz : Offset -0.006v ; LLC regular 0% => core voltage 1.296v CPU temp 54°C, thermal margin 24°C
4,2Ghz : Offset -0.0425v ; LLC Extreme 100% => core voltage 1.368v CPU temp 63°C, thermal margin 7°C

Here are pics at idle and load 4.2Ghz


----------



## killerxx8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Try 1.25v NB and 1.65v RAM.


It dosent show my NB total valts anywhere and ive tried 1.65v ram dosent help :/


----------



## killerxx8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Have you updated the BIOS on the motherboard?
> What is the voltage for the NB, CPU and RAM?
> From what i can see on the pictures of your board, it dosnt have heatsinks for the mosfets so maybe they are getting to hot?


Yeah i see what you mean about the mosfets does this mean ill never be able to over clock?


----------



## DannyDK

Well, you wont get as far as if they had heatsinks that much i know


----------



## Ketcchup

Will my 860K last 1 or 2 years at 1.425 Vcore? I'm pretty unexperienced in terms of overclocking


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Will my 860K last 1 or 2 years at 1.425 Vcore? I'm pretty unexperienced in terms of overclocking


Definitely IMO. I believe the 860K will probably use similar voltages with Turbo Boost enabled when running at the Turbo Boost speed, etc. 1 to 2 years is pretty short in terms of actual life for a computer component I think. It can probably survive 1.5V for more than 2 years with good cooling keeping the CPU in temps. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## DannyDK

I would say absolutely, i had a 7850k with 1.55 voltage running for more than a year and the new owner still has it going strong


----------



## Ketcchup

Thank you guys. Just one more thing, looking at CPU-Z, HwInfo and HWMonitor...

I see CPU VID (what I understand it's what the MB assigns by default at that clock, right?), CPU VCORE at 1.424V, CPU-Z showing 1.424V but then I see in both HWMonitor and HWinfo 1.363/1.369V Core Voltages.

Which is the true voltage of the CPU? I have Offset +0.01875 and LLC at Medium (60%)


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Hey all, been thinking about taking the plunge into a Z97 setup. How much do you guys think I could fetch for my Asus A88X Pro and a 860k? I also have a Gigabyte A88X D3H and a 760K that is about a few months old.


----------



## jsc1973

I'd guess about $130, maybe $140. But you might not move it right away unless you take a lowball offer. That motherboard sells for well over $100 by itself, but not everyone appreciates the major differences between it and a $50 FM2+ board.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I'd guess about $130, maybe $140. But you might not move it right away unless you take a lowball offer. That motherboard sells for well over $100 by itself, but not everyone appreciates the major differences between it and a $50 FM2+ board.


Thanks. I am in no rush to sell, but just wanted to get an idea. The Asus board is about a year old and the 860k about 2 months. The other setup is practically brand new and has never been oc'ed on. I am assuming your estimate is in U.S funds? Lastly, is there a market place here on overclock.net?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Thanks. I am in no rush to sell, but just wanted to get an idea. The Asus board is about a year old and the 860k about 2 months. The other setup is practically brand new and has never been oc'ed on. I am assuming your estimate is in U.S funds? Lastly, is there a market place here on overclock.net?


Yes, U.S funds. I have no idea what the secondary parts market would be in another country.

There's a marketplace here, but you need something like 25 or 30 reps to sell on it.


----------



## drmrlordx

Back when I was shopping for boards on eBay in late 2014, the A88x-Pro was going for ~$80-$90 on average. I got mine for $53 in what was not a typical sale/auction of the board. It's the second-best FM2+ board out there, and a very useful thing to have.

Still, you'd be lucky to get $130 for one. But it does look like the prevailing price for it shipped on eBay has gone up somewhat.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the proposal for the P States fixes. But I think it is more related to internal CPU temp now. Throttling is happening when Thermal Margin (seen on Coretemp) is going to reach below 5deg. I will try to respread thermal paste on my CPU. I tried the cross application instead of spreading as I always did.
> ]


The spread seemed to be worse, gone back on cross for thermal paste application.

I will try to improove cooling, just ordered Artic MX4 paste and wlll replace the fan of the Shuriken by a 90mm PWM from artic cooling. on paper 30% more airlfow. It should help to allow me to have acceptable thermal margin when increasing voltage.


----------



## DannyDK

MX4 is great, what do you use now?


----------



## syl1979

some OCZ Freeze I got for free

In fact I have read some reviews it seems to be quite good in actually.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I'm quite fond of Arctic Silver 5 and Liquid Ultra myself.


----------



## HeadGear

I use as5 original for other people's computers, and still using up a few giant tubes of IC Diamond 24 I got for free through a trial on Tom's years ago, heh, overall any decent TIM will do a decent job for general use, rarely is a name brand TIM to blame for major thermal issues.


----------



## jsc1973

Any decent TIM will do the job these days. People still ask about AS5, which has been around forever, and it's not the best anymore by any stretch, but it still works well. I just buy a big tube of Arctic Silver's Ceramique 2, which works as well as their AS5 but is much cheaper and non-conductive, and use that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Back when I was shopping for boards on eBay in late 2014, the A88x-Pro was going for ~$80-$90 on average. I got mine for $53 in what was not a typical sale/auction of the board. It's the second-best FM2+ board out there, and a very useful thing to have.
> 
> Still, you'd be lucky to get $130 for one. But it does look like the prevailing price for it shipped on eBay has gone up somewhat.


No, no way he gets that for the A88X-PRO alone. You can buy a new one for less than that. That's about what I paid for mine _at retail_ when I had to have a board and it was the only FM2+ board available that didn't suck. (They had the best FM2+ board in the world at the time, and a bunch of garbage ones, nothing in between. Go figure.) But an A88X-PRO plus an 860K might fetch that much.


----------



## p4inkill3r




----------



## drmrlordx

Moral of the story: don't use Rosewill RCX-TC060PRO?

There are a lot of TIM reviews out there, and they show some odd (and often contradictory) results here and there. Sometimes AS5 shows up big and sometimes it doesn't. Personally I have found at least three pastes that I like better than it, and those are Shin Etsu x23-7783D, IC Diamond 7, and Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra. I will caution that the x23 shines in very thin applications on lapped surfaces (800 grit or so), so there are some situations where it isn't necessarily as good as other pastes, such as on stock unlapped HSF/IHS surfaces. Some HSF's ship so flat and shiny that they may as well be lapped, so x23 might be good-to-great there too.

CLU is the bomb. It physically alters surfaces, so I don't think it really matters whether the surfaces are lapped or not. The surfaces will be rough by the time the CLU has done its work. If you feel like ponying up the money for it, CLU rocks, and once you learn to paint it on properly, you can get by with very thin applications.

Then there's ICD7 which I believe will consistently outperform x23-7783D in most if not all situations. In fact ICD7 is probably ahead of everything except CLU, CLP, and IX. Not that AMD users can use IX.

Bringing things back to the 860k and other Kaveri chips: you can probably do okay with a lot of different pastes. IC Diamond 7 usually gets the thumbs-up from me in terms of price/performance. I've never used it (I'm a CLU convert), but among those who have, it consistently beats AS5 and a lot of other pastes. Jury's still out if you want to use it on the die after delid/relid operations which is only for the hardcore. The 860k is a budget chip, so spending a whole lot on your TIM is probably not a great idea. ICD7 is probably in an acceptable budget range given the cost of the chip, so personally I'd recommend that. x23-7783D is also pretty good, especially if you like lapping a lot. Otherwise I do not think I'd recommend it over the ICD7. That, and it isn't necessarily all that cheap . . .

Just be advised that ICD7 will scratch up the IHS.


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p4inkill3r*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


chocolate







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Thanks for giving it some thought for me. I know that Intel is generally faster, as I said its really a hobby box. I havent watercooled before and I havent overclocked an AMD CPU, the fact I can do both and have a decent little gaming box as well really appeals more then just getting another I5. I did consider the G3258 but I've seen a couple of games starting to need 4 threads now to even start up and also, well I just want something completely different to play with. Even if I went with the G3258 I would probably watercool it. I understand it is completely unneccessary.
> 
> I also want it to work well and stably because the wife will be surfing the net with it at times, hence my question about the motherboards. If I can't overclock on MITX solidly I will probably go Intel. I dont need to set records I just want it to be solid at a reasonable overclock, is it possible with a 860k on an MITX?
> 
> I've seen a couple of guys using my case with custom loops that look great, and yea sure I want to build it to show off a bit, to just learn how to, and really because I like the planning and reading and messing around with stuff. Maybe I'll grow out of it or maybe it's an early mid life crisis, who knows.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Those FM2+ mini-itx boards don't look very great for OC. We need more opinions on this and some more time to think about it.
> 
> I have a Pentium 3258 in my mini-itx rig, but I don't use it for heavy gaming.


here's my review of the GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XN-WIFI with a A8 7650k http://www.overclock.net/t/1545544/a8-7650k-build-with-benches#post_23653708


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> chocolate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's my review of the GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XN-WIFI with a A8 7650k http://www.overclock.net/t/1545544/a8-7650k-build-with-benches#post_23653708


Perfect, thanks a lot


----------



## Goldn3agle

If anyone sporting the 860K on the ASRock Extreme6+ motherboards suffers from CPU stability issues at stock clocks, like I did, ASRock has very kindly sent me the P3.51 Beta BIOS (that isn't on the website yet) which has an updated CPU microcode that fixed stability issues.
The NB controls still don't work though.









F288E6P3.51.zip 4898k .zip file


----------



## nakano2k1

I kinda miss my X4 860k. It was a great little CPU for the price. The thing I would REALLY love to see them do with carrizo is if you're going to allow for DDR3 2133 memory to be native to the controller, at least allow for the NB to be clocked to something close to there.

Overclocked to 4.5ghz, it just sang! The person who I gave it to uses it swears by it and AMD now. LOL


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> I kinda miss my X4 860k. It was a great little CPU for the price. The thing I would REALLY love to see them do with carrizo is if you're going to allow for DDR3 2133 memory to be native to the controller, at least allow for the NB to be clocked to something close to there.
> 
> Overclocked to 4.5ghz, it just sang! The person who I gave it to uses it swears by it and AMD now. LOL


I thought most people (meaning 3-5) were able to obtain 2200MHz NB...wait nevermind I think it was 2000MHz and 1 or 2 people got 2100MHz and 2200MHz


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> I thought most people (meaning 3-5) were able to obtain 2200MHz NB...wait nevermind I think it was 2000MHz and 1 or 2 people got 2100MHz and 2200MHz


I can't get past stock 1800 MHz no matter what I do.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I can't get past stock 1800 MHz no matter what I do.


even with more voltage? can't say I know. I knew less about OCing when I was active with my 860K. Learned more while OCing my 8350. If I still had it I would do a thorough check over it. I would give you my NB OC voltage settings (not that you need it) but it seems I only recorded the CPU Vcore voltages.


----------



## Goldn3agle

My NB frequency wont even change, never mind stabilize.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> My NB frequency wont even change, never mind stabilize.


That's got to be a board bios limitation. Have you talked to ASRock about it? Are there other people with the same issue?

I had a Gigabyte A88X-UP4 and I could overclock well. As long as the phase control was set to "extreme". Need to have really solid voltage to overclock these CPUs it seems.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I've been in contact with ASRock about the Extreme6+'s problems, so I've already let them know. (Got a few responses too.







)


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Goldn3agle*
> 
> I've been in contact with ASRock about the Extreme6+'s problems, so I've already let them know. (Got a few responses too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


That's great. Were they optimistic in being able to help you?

I don't like the implementation of the bios when it comes to the Athlon chips on the platform. I mean, the fact that they still have to have APU voltage means that someone screwed up. I was under the impression that the APU voltage was used to power the interconnects between the GPU and CPU cores transfer data quicker. Seeing how the GPU was severed from the die on the 860K, would it not make more sense to now need it?

I just think that the Steamroller platform could be even better on the x86 side if the support was there for it.


----------



## SYPH

Any one able to post 1080p max settings for gaming benchmark with this chip?


----------



## Goldn3agle

They usually confirm that my feedback was forwarded to HQ, but they're obviously listening because they sent me a beta ROM to test.

Personally I think the overall implementation of Kaveri was a little haphazard, good idea but rather poor implementation. ( I still enjoy them though)


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Any one able to post 1080p max settings for gaming benchmark with this chip?


It really depends on what kind of game you're playing and what kind of GPU(s) you're trying to power.

I would say that this CPU can handle pretty much any 1080p game currently out there if overclocked. The only ones I would suggest a better CPU would be ones with large online communities like BF4. Whenever I tried to play BF4 with this CPU and a GTX 680, I encountered some slow downs and stuttering on any server with over 32 players in it.

For price to performance, it's still one of the best CPUs out there right now.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I agree with you there, I'm very happy with my 860K (I'll like it even more when ASRock iron out the issues with the E6+).
Just wish I had the money to have a beefier rig too.


----------



## Horsemama1956

How is the 7790 crossfire? I was thinking of grabbing another 260x soon since I can get them for 50-60 on Kijiji.


----------



## SYPH

i wonder if people can actually overclock this cpu on a itx board to 4.5 ghz. Sadly no enthusiast itx for this chip


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> i wonder if people can actually overclock this cpu on a itx board to 4.5 ghz. Sadly no enthusiast itx for this chip


You can overclock one, but not as much as you would be able to on a full-size board. If you look at the results, most of the 4.5-plus overclocks are happening on Crossblade Rangers and A88X-Pros, both full ATX 6+2 boards with enthusiast-level settings in the BIOS. There are some people getting there on 4+2 high-end mATX boards, but even the best of the FM2+ mini-ITX boards look like they were designed more with HTPC use in mind than for SFF, high-performance rigs.

Maybe when we see Kaveri refresh, we'll get some better overclocking chips that can make 4.5 on mITX. I don't have any systems like that myself, but it would be nice for see better alternatives to Intel for people who are in that market.


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> i wonder if people can actually overclock this cpu on a itx board to 4.5 ghz. Sadly no enthusiast itx for this chip


Was doable with the stock cooler and the ipgu disabled for me on mine. I guess thats probably abnormal though...


----------



## jsc1973

You got a good one. That happens sometimes.


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> How is the 7790 crossfire? I was thinking of grabbing another 260x soon since I can get them for 50-60 on Kijiji.


It works out pretty well, you can definitely see the difference when you add a second GPU, the 860K does struggle in some scenarios (32+ BF4 multiplayer) as expected but it's not that big of an issue.


----------



## nakano2k1

1080p gaming with a 1gb card even when put into crossfire is going to be bad. 1gb of memory for ANY newer game is going to get massacred. Having said that, the 860k does alright, but only when overclocked. At stock clocks it's mediocre at best.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> 1080p gaming with a 1gb card even when put into crossfire is going to be bad. 1gb of memory for ANY newer game is going to get massacred. Having said that, the 860k does alright, but only when overclocked. At stock clocks it's mediocre at best.


Mediocre? In what way? And compared to what? There are a lot of people in a lot of forums who contradict what you are saying. People who actually are using the 860K to game.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Mediocre? In what way? And compared to what? There are a lot of people in a lot of forums who contradict what you are saying. People who actually are using the 860K to game.


I'm comparing it to the experience I had with my 860k when it was at stock clocks vs Overclocked vs what i'm currently using. I'm not saying that Intel is amazeballs or anything like that. I'm just giving you my unadulterated experience with the CPU running BF4, FC4, LOTRSM etc.

Would you mind sharing your actual experiences with the CPU? Or are you content on criticizing people as is?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> I'm comparing it to the experience I had with my 860k when it was at stock clocks vs Overclocked vs what i'm currently using. I'm not saying that Intel is amazeballs or anything like that. I'm just giving you my unadulterated experience with the CPU running BF4, FC4, LOTRSM etc.
> 
> Would you mind sharing your actual experiences with the CPU? Or are you content on criticizing people as is?


If you even bothered to look I own an 860K. For the record your post said nothing about you owning the cpu. What makes you think I was criticizing you? Have you always been in the habit of reading into things that aren't there? I was just wondering if you had any first hand experience? There are lots of people here who just post anecdotal evidence with no firsthand experience.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> I'm comparing it to the experience I had with my 860k when it was at stock clocks vs Overclocked vs what i'm currently using. I'm not saying that Intel is amazeballs or anything like that. I'm just giving you my unadulterated experience with the CPU running BF4, FC4, LOTRSM etc.
> 
> Would you mind sharing your actual experiences with the CPU? Or are you content on criticizing people as is?


He's not criticizing you really. He's trying to see your reasons on the choice of word mediocre which really makes it sound terrible, which it isn't as a ~$70-80 CPU


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> I'm comparing it to the experience I had with my 860k when it was at stock clocks vs Overclocked vs what i'm currently using. I'm not saying that Intel is amazeballs or anything like that. I'm just giving you my unadulterated experience with the CPU running BF4, FC4, LOTRSM etc.
> 
> Would you mind sharing your actual experiences with the CPU? Or are you content on criticizing people as is?


I've spent a lot of time with my 860k gaming, through several mobos and graphics setups, with different clocks and cooling, and even at stock clocks on a budget board, paired with a low/mid GPU, is a very very hard to beat gaming build for the price.

I've built 6 systems now around the 860k for friends, all very budget minded, and we all have a great time at 1080p. All of the systems have either r9 270s or 750ti for graphics, and only a couple are over clocked, and every single one of us prefer the PC for all gaming that isn't console exclusive.

Enthusiast doesn't always mean expensive, in fact it rarely has to, and the price point this platform offers is well below the point of diminishing returns, allowing for an enthusiast approach to stretching performance per dollar via upgrades to facilitate OC, or to just upgrade parts.

I personally have played completely through SoM, Grid Autosport, Borderlands 2 and the presequal, FC3, about 100h of FFXIV, some WoW, some BF4, Sniper elite 3 with a little bit of online... And none of these titles left me yearning for more firepower. No, I'm not able to run everything at absolute max settings, but with some tweaking, they all look great at 1080p, and runs smoothly in all but the rarest of circumstances. It won't be the best CPU for demanding Online multiplayer games, but in no way is it incapable, even at stock clocks.

I grew this platform from an old build piece by piece, and even small investments over time had significant payoffs in performance (SSD boot/game drive, second GPU for Crossfire, better case for better cooling and OC) and I am glad that the starting point I chose was the 860k.

See what I did there? I managed to talk about the platform honestly with my personal experiences, extolling its advantages, admitting its weaknesses, and why i feel that way, WITHOUT invoking an intel comparison, and the inevitable debate that follows.

This is a thread about the 860k and how we have used it, with some help and assistance asked for, as well as given, in regards to components like motherboards and cooling, GPUs to pair with, etc.

Divisive debate about platforms has to no place here, there are a billion other threads where that is the main focus, leave it there.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> See what I did there? I managed to talk about the platform honestly with my personal experiences, extolling its advantages, admitting its weaknesses, and why i feel that way, WITHOUT invoking an intel comparison, and the inevitable debate that follows.
> 
> Divisive debate about platforms has to no place here, there are a billion other threads where that is the main focus, leave it there.


This.........


----------



## YooJaeSuk

I want to get this CPU for my first rig. Is this chip easy to overclock for a first time builder? I plan on doing some 1080 gaming with few minor tweaks for smooth gameplay ((I usually buy AAA games when they get cheaper over the time of 7 months or so)), along with once and week PhotoShop CC, Lightroom, and krita. As for the overclocking, I can take my time.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I want to get this CPU for my first rig. Is this chip easy to overclock for a first time builder? I plan on doing some 1080 gaming with few minor tweaks for smooth gameplay ((I usually buy AAA games when they get cheaper over the time of 7 months or so)), along with once and week PhotoShop CC, Lightroom, and krita. As for the overclocking, I can take my time.


Most people are getting minor OC easily, with just bumping a couple values in the BIOS. This thread (though 800+ posts long) has a TON of information regarding motherboards, cooling, cases, OCing limits, and the like. If you are serious about knowing more about how to use this chip, and what to expect through OC, take the time to parse through the thread. Many of us that have resided in here have had to rehash information for those not willing to read through, and it can appear we are becoming apathetic through repetition.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I want to get this CPU for my first rig. Is this chip easy to overclock for a first time builder? I plan on doing some 1080 gaming with few minor tweaks for smooth gameplay ((I usually buy AAA games when they get cheaper over the time of 7 months or so)), along with once and week PhotoShop CC, Lightroom, and krita. As for the overclocking, I can take my time.


To get a good overclock I strongly recommend getting a top notch board like a ASUS A88X-PRO. Great phase power section. Top notch BIOS layout. A decent but cheap cpu cooler like a Hyper 212 EVO is enough. Lastly, a case with good airflow and at least two 120 mm or 140 mm intakes and two exhausts of a matching size.


----------



## nakano2k1

Ok fine. You guys can bash me all you like.

I'm not changing my opinion on the 860k though. My opinions aren't that of brand loyalty, nor do they have anything to do with ignorance. As I mentioned, they come from having owned a 860k for roughly half a year. During that time, it was paired with a 270x as well as a GTX 680. Both of these GPUs had been previously paired with differently CPUs both Intel and AMD (2500k / 1090t). I felt that in many games (especially BF4 which I play a lot) my FPS were considerably lower with the 860k especially with stock clocks than than the other CPUs. As I mentioned, OCing alleviated some of the slowdown and stuttering, but it in no way fixed it.

Content creation with the CPU wasn't much fun either. Ripping and rendering was a slow process compared to the 2500k as well as the CPU that i'm currently using.

There is a reason I no longer have the 860k. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, but it is mediocre. It matches it's 70 - 80 dollar price tag it had a couple of months ago. I wouldn't pay 100 or more for it though.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Most people are getting minor OC easily, with just bumping a couple values in the BIOS. This thread (though 800+ posts long) has a TON of information regarding motherboards, cooling, cases, OCing limits, and the like. If you are serious about knowing more about how to use this chip, and what to expect through OC, take the time to parse through the thread. Many of us that have resided in here have had to rehash information for those not willing to read through, and it can appear we are becoming apathetic through repetition.


Thanks i'll read through when I get home later.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> Ok fine. You guys can bash me all you like.
> 
> I'm not changing my opinion on the 860k though. My opinions aren't that of brand loyalty, nor do they have anything to do with ignorance. As I mentioned, they come from having owned a 860k for roughly half a year. During that time, it was paired with a 270x as well as a GTX 680. Both of these GPUs had been previously paired with differently CPUs both Intel and AMD (2500k / 1090t). I felt that in many games (especially BF4 which I play a lot) my FPS were considerably lower with the 860k especially with stock clocks than than the other CPUs. As I mentioned, OCing alleviated some of the slowdown and stuttering, but it in no way fixed it.
> 
> Content creation with the CPU wasn't much fun either. Ripping and rendering was a slow process compared to the 2500k as well as the CPU that i'm currently using.
> 
> There is a reason I no longer have the 860k. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, but it is mediocre. It matches it's 70 - 80 dollar price tag it had a couple of months ago. I wouldn't pay 100 or more for it though.


Your not being bashed, you are being asked to stay on topic. Its not personal, its practical.

On the entire English speaking internet, there are very very very few resources regarding an enthusiast approach to the FM2+ platform, specifically with the 860k. There are many thousands of threads about Brand V. Brand, Model V. Model. Please let us have this thread, as one of the few information repositories, without the unnecessary comparisons to other options. That's just not the point of this at all.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I want to get this CPU for my first rig. Is this chip easy to overclock for a first time builder? I plan on doing some 1080 gaming with few minor tweaks for smooth gameplay ((I usually buy AAA games when they get cheaper over the time of 7 months or so)), along with once and week PhotoShop CC, Lightroom, and krita. As for the overclocking, I can take my time.


Offset +0.02V, LLC High, CPU Multiplier 42. That's a safe and long-term overclock, and it's just copypaste those values in your BIOS settings. But your CPU maybe a good one so you can raise the multiplier even more without raising voltage, or just a little bit voltage.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Your not being bashed, you are being asked to stay on topic. Its not personal, its practical.
> 
> On the entire English speaking internet, there are very very very few resources regarding an enthusiast approach to the FM2+ platform, specifically with the 860k. There are many thousands of threads about Brand V. Brand, Model V. Model. Please let us have this thread, as one of the few information repositories, without the unnecessary comparisons to other options. That's just not the point of this at all.


Not once in my initial post did I say anything about how much A is better than B. In fact, if you look back to the posts, you'll see that I actually praise the 860k. And what's this "Us"? it's a board in which i'm supposed to be able to have a educated opinion about the topic at hand without being told that I need to adhere to a certain set of rules made by people who post in this thread more than others.

My post was concerning the 860k. My post was in relation to the 860k.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

You know, i'm just gonna go for it with getting this chip, then upgrade when Zen is released, and gets a bit cheaper into early 2017.


----------



## damric

So...are any boards working out of the box with this CPU yet?


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> So...are any boards working out of the box with this CPU yet?


The GA-F2A88XM-D3H (rev. 3.1) is the only board I know that supports it out of the box.

Edit

GA-F2A88XM-DS2 (rev. 3.2), GA-F2A88XM-HD3 (rev. 3.2) also support it right out of the box.

The only problem is finding a retailer that will guarantee revisions.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> So...are any boards working out of the box with this CPU yet?


It depends mostly on when the shop bought it. Im sure if you buy a mobo with many reviews and comments it will come updated because they have to get new stock.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

So most A88X boards don't support it out the box? Will the MSI A88XM and 860K be supported out the box?


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> So most A88X boards don't support it out the box? Will the MSI A88XM and 860K be supported out the box?


It depends on when the motherboard was produced. The initial bios didn't support the 860k, but the first release bios after that did. I'm not 100% but some motherboard manufacturers will actually print the bios version on the side of the box.

Anything 1.1 and above will work.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> So most A88X boards don't support it out the box? Will the MSI A88XM and 860K be supported out the box?


No. Boards with fresh stock are updated, but old stock probably isn't. Just find motherboards with many reviews or comments in the store.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> There is a reason I no longer have the 860k. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, but it is mediocre. It matches it's 70 - 80 dollar price tag it had a couple of months ago. I wouldn't pay 100 or more for it though.


Why are you saying you wouldn't pay $100 for a cpu that goes for about $75? What does that have to do with anything? No one is asking anybody to pay $100 for a $75 cpu.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Why are you saying you wouldn't pay $100 for a cpu that goes for about $75? What does that have to do with anything? No one is asking anybody to pay $100 for a $75 cpu.


1) Not everyone lives in the USA where parts are in general cheaper
2) The average price for it in Canada right now is about 100 dollars CDN. When I bought the CPU it was 69.99. At that price (or +20 dollars) is a fitting price for what I feel the CPU offer in terms of performance and options. Heck, compatibility is a factor that needs to be included with the price when purchasing it.

I know nobody is making me pay a set price for the CPU. I merely expressed my opinion.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

Well newegg has 50 reviews. Would a 7850k work out the box (curious question)


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Well newegg has 50 reviews. Would a 7850k work out the box (curious question)


On the MSI A88XM Gaming, the 7850k will work out of the box according to the website.

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88XM-GAMING.html#support-cpu

Anything with "7903v10.zip" written on the right side of the chart will work out of the box.

If you're not looking to use the integrated GPU of the 7850k, then the 860k is much better value however.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> The GA-F2A88XM-D3H (rev. 3.1) is the only board I know that supports it out of the box.
> 
> Edit
> 
> GA-F2A88XM-DS2 (rev. 3.2), GA-F2A88XM-HD3 (rev. 3.2) also support it right out of the box.
> 
> The only problem is finding a retailer that will guarantee revisions.


Good to know that there are at least two boards. It's hard for me to recommend this CPU when this is still such a problem though.


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Good to know that there are at least two boards. It's hard for me to recommend this CPU when this is still such a problem though.


I snagged my A88X-UP4 off of Ebay (I know, I know). But that way, at least I could have someone guarantee me that the board was flashed with a certain bios.

It sucks that retailers won't guarantee bioses of their motherboards.


----------



## Darklyric

Don't most of the higher end asus boards support their bios flash utility without a cpu or ram installed?


----------



## nakano2k1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> Don't most of the higher end asus boards support their bios flash utility without a cpu or ram installed?


Yeah, the Asus ROG USB Flashback. You put the USB with the new bios on it in the ROG usb slot and hold the bios reset button and it will flash the new bios.

The only thing is the Crossblade ranger is the only ROG board from Asus for the FM2+ platform right now. It's also only available in ATX format and goes for about 180 dollars.


----------



## SYPH

Doesnt the MSI boards have a USB Bios flash as well?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> Ok fine. You guys can bash me all you like.
> 
> I'm not changing my opinion on the 860k though. My opinions aren't that of brand loyalty, nor do they have anything to do with ignorance. As I mentioned, they come from having owned a 860k for roughly half a year. During that time, it was paired with a 270x as well as a GTX 680. Both of these GPUs had been previously paired with differently CPUs both Intel and AMD (2500k / 1090t). I felt that in many games (especially BF4 which I play a lot) my FPS were considerably lower with the 860k especially with stock clocks than than the other CPUs. As I mentioned, OCing alleviated some of the slowdown and stuttering, but it in no way fixed it.
> 
> Content creation with the CPU wasn't much fun either. Ripping and rendering was a slow process compared to the 2500k as well as the CPU that i'm currently using.
> 
> There is a reason I no longer have the 860k. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, but it is mediocre. It matches it's 70 - 80 dollar price tag it had a couple of months ago. I wouldn't pay 100 or more for it though.


If you go and look back and both HeadGear and my posts I don't think there was a single word that bashes you. Same with chrisjames61. If anything you began this discussion/argument when you asked if chris to talk from experience of using the product instead of criticizing you.

1) Most people in this thread has owned the 860K, still own the 860K, and soon will own a 860K. Maybe if you paid closer attention you would have noticed chrisjames61, headgear, and others owned and has more experience with the 860K

2) You're comparing a 2500K which is a CPU that was $200+ and the 1090T that started selling ~$300. Intel is known for their superior IPC making them stronger than anything AMD has to offer and then the 1090T with the extra two cores and being a bit comparable with the FX line is again better off with newer games.

You're comparing products that are more than double, even triple the price of a CPU and then bashing it because it can't keep up with your previous products. You may have been frustrated with your experience with the 860K. I understand seeing where your coming from, but I also don't agree with calling something mediocre because a lower classed product can't perform against a high end product at a lower price. It's like comparing brand spanking new common 2015 car against a 2010 super car. Once again we're not bashing you, if anything you accidentally bashed the 860K, and then pointed fingers at people on accident causing a uncomfortable situation. I think the problem for me is the difference in the level of what mediocre means. For me mediocre seems like it's worse than the word 'bad'. But then technically it's not so. Mediocre means not so good. I think the 860K is enough to call it good, but it's not great, or even more it's not amazing. Bulldozer CPUs and maybe Phenom Quad Cores seem more fit as mediocre, and then most dual cores fit the bad.

This is something I would like with every forum. Keep discussion of one brand/product in their respective thread, and if you require to share your experience by comparing one product you might as well make your own thread. Bringing up Intel in an AMD forum/thread vice versa will cause an heated discussion, argument, and name calling very quickly. You have valuable personal experience with the 860K so please stay and help others who are interested but lets not go any further in any discussion that can take a negative turn.

.:edit:.

Like another member said the F2A88XM-D3H does come with required BIOS with the newest revision I believe but not with older ones. Make sure you get a newer one with that motherboard. The F2A88XM-D3H is a pretty popular one on Newegg (as far as # of reviews) so their inventory and others might have new revisions as they seem to be bought a lot. I bought mine Jan '14 and I actually needed a BIOS update for my 860K.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> Ok fine. You guys can bash me all you like.
> 
> I'm not changing my opinion on the 860k though. My opinions aren't that of brand loyalty, nor do they have anything to do with ignorance. As I mentioned, they come from having owned a 860k for roughly half a year. During that time, it was paired with a 270x as well as a GTX 680. Both of these GPUs had been previously paired with differently CPUs both Intel and AMD (2500k / 1090t). I felt that in many games (especially BF4 which I play a lot) my FPS were considerably lower with the 860k especially with stock clocks than than the other CPUs. As I mentioned, OCing alleviated some of the slowdown and stuttering, but it in no way fixed it.
> 
> Content creation with the CPU wasn't much fun either. Ripping and rendering was a slow process compared to the 2500k as well as the CPU that i'm currently using.
> 
> There is a reason I no longer have the 860k. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, but it is mediocre. It matches it's 70 - 80 dollar price tag it had a couple of months ago. I wouldn't pay 100 or more for it though.


The i5-2500K and 1090T should both be stronger in those kinds of applications, expecially if they don't take advantage of the modern instruction sets available to the Athlon. When software can fully utilize it, the Athlon does pretty well as a quad core. Obviously games that like a strong single core are going to favor that i5 though, and multi-core FPU heavy tasks that do not utilize AVX will run way better on that 1090T than an Athlon 860K.

Not sure why you are coming off all butt-hurt over this


----------



## Horsemama1956

You get what you pay for. Most of the people running cheap chips(myself included now) use it strictly for gaming and don't want to spend a tonne to do it. Anyone serious about rendering/media creation should be running an i7\FX8XXX anyways. Once overclocked, any of the Quad FM2\+ CPUs will give a good 60 fps gaming experience 99% of the time.

If you were getting stuttering in games you may have had other issues. I know if I have my NB too high things got weird, even if stable in Prime. Same with GPU RAM.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> You get what you pay for. Most of the people running cheap chips(myself included now) use it strictly for gaming and don't want to spend a tonne to do it. Anyone serious about rendering/media creation should be running an i7\FX8XXX anyways. Once overclocked, any of the Quad FM2\+ CPUs will give a good 60 fps gaming experience 99% of the time.
> 
> If you were getting stuttering in games you may have had other issues. I know if I have my NB too high things got weird, even if stable in Prime. Same with GPU RAM.


Very well said. I don't know what people expect from the 860k. Here it's sold 25 euros less than a FX-6300 (75 vs 100 euros). There must be a reason for that! You can't get a four core with slightly superior IPC compared to the Piledriver core and expect it to make miracles in tasks where more cores beat less cores with slightly better IPC... It's also a reason of why i have always avoided proposing the APUs to people that didn't absolutely want to go APU. Buying a CPU just based on what you think you will do today or based only on one game, was never a wise decision. Tomorrow you may decide you want to do rendering, video transcoding, a new game may come out, exactly like BF4 that can use as many cores are you can throw at it. The "slighty higher IPC" goes down the drain immediately then. Better having more unused cores today, than less cores tomorrow.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Very well said. I don't know what people expect from the 860k. Here it's sold 25 euros less than a FX-6300 (75 vs 100 euros). There must be a reason for that! You can't get a four core with slightly superior IPC compared to the Piledriver core and expect it to make miracles in tasks where more cores beat less cores with slightly better IPC... It's also a reason of why i have always avoided proposing the APUs to people that didn't absolutely want to go APU. Buying a CPU just based on what you think you will do today or based only on one game, was never a wise decision. Tomorrow you may decide you want to do rendering, video transcoding, a new game may come out, exactly like BF4 that can use as many cores are you can throw at it. The "slighty higher IPC" goes down the drain immediately then. Better having more unused cores today, than less cores tomorrow.


Funny how prices are so different contry to contry, here the fx goes for around the same but the 860k for around 60/65euro, so in my country i would say its a no brainer which you would buy 
Lets hope that dx12 get rid of the need for a lot of cores and hope that the new games out there right now can implement support for it


----------



## 7850K

I've always wondered why the FX-4300 is still $99. With the 860k at ~$75 and the FX-6300 at $109 it seems like the worst deal they have.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I've always wondered why the FX-4300 is still $99. With the 860k at ~$75 and the FX-6300 at $109 it seem like the worst deal they have.


It doesn't make much sense. There must be a particularity in the supply or the demand. Here the cheapest boxed 4300 is 70 euros (cheaper than 860K) and there are actually some OEM 4300 offerings, the cheapest of which is at 59 euros.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> It doesn't make much sense. There must be a particularity in the supply or the demand. Here the cheapest boxed 4300 is 70 euros (cheaper than 860K) and there are actually some OEM 4300 offerings, the cheapest of which is at 59 euros.


But is the 4300 better than the 860k in gaming terms?
Its also cheaper in my country btw.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> But is the 4300 better than the 860k in gaming terms?
> Its also cheaper in my country btw.


I don't see how... They are both 4 cores, but the 860K is Steamroller, so it has higher IPC than the Piledriver. So the 860K should be better clock for clock.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> But is the 4300 better than the 860k in gaming terms?
> Its also cheaper in my country btw.


No, 860K has better IPC and new instruction sets. Benchmarks tell it (4.1GHz 860K = 4.8GHz FX 4300 as you can see in passmark results). Despite of that you can't upgrade your CPU to an FX6300 or a FX8350 with a 860K.


----------



## syl1979

One important thing : you can barely find any "good" motherboard in micro ATX format supporting the FX processors...

So for small form factors PCs you have either AMD FM2 platform or intel...

Edit: Asrock is releasing an A970M pro3, 4+1 phases with heatsink on VRM, not too bad...


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> One important thing : you can barely find any "good" motherboard in micro ATX format supporting the FX processors...
> 
> So for small form factors PCs you have either AMD FM2 platform or intel...
> 
> Edit: Asrock is releasing an A970M pro3, 4+1 phases with heatsink on VRM, not too bad...


With 4+1 it will most likely be useless for OC,so even the the 4+2 mATX FM2+ boards will have a higher performance ceiling... With PCI 3.0/to boot.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> But is the 4300 better than the 860k in gaming terms?


If both CPU's are forced to run at the same clock all of the time, the 860K wins easily. The only reasons an FX-43x0 will beat an 860K are because: 1) the 860K is being run on a poor quality motherboard that throttles the 860K down to 3 GHz all of the time, and the user doesn't know how to stop that behavior; or 2) the CPU's are being used to handle server workloads, where the 4300's L3 cache (not present on Kaveri) actually makes a difference.

There's nothing wrong with a 4300; if you get a good chip that can hit 5 GHz or more, it can be as good as an 860K for gaming performance, but if they're the same price, you're usually better off with the 860K. If you really want an FX, find a good deal on one of the 8-core versions. In some ways, they're a better value now than when they came out, because the price has come down some, and because there's more software that lets them flex their muscles than there was back in 2012.


----------



## p4inkill3r

I've got my base ready, now just to purchase the chip.

HAF X
MSI A88X-G43


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p4inkill3r*
> 
> I've got my base ready, now just to purchase the chip.
> 
> HAF X
> MSI A88X-G43


lol how long did it take to paint all that?


----------



## p4inkill3r

The giant case took 4 cans of white, two cans of primer, and one can of orange. I used 3 coats of white and two coats of orange and it took about a week.

The motherboard took two days and much less paint, of course. I am going to have to retouch the NB heatsink and I may put a border on it as it seems to melt into the overall case, but I'm happy with how it turned out.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> 1) Not everyone lives in the USA where parts are in general cheaper
> 2) The average price for it in Canada right now is about 100 dollars CDN. When I bought the CPU it was 69.99. At that price (or +20 dollars) is a fitting price for what I feel the CPU offer in terms of performance and options. Heck, compatibility is a factor that needs to be included with the price when purchasing it.
> 
> I know nobody is making me pay a set price for the CPU. I merely expressed my opinion.


Much of that is due to the US dollar going up against the CDN, Euro, and several other units of currency over the last 6 months. All CPUs should be more expensive in Canada right now, especially those with narrow supply margins. Retailers carrying a hefty stock of some other kind of higher-volume part might take longer to move their prices upwards (basically meaning, it'll take longer for increases in supply chain costs to reach their retail pricing model).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> The only thing is the Crossblade ranger is the only ROG board from Asus for the FM2+ platform right now. It's also only available in ATX format and goes for about 180 dollars.


Again, are we talking CDN here? When I was shopping last year, the Crossblade Ranger was going for about $150 new. Looks like you can get one for about that price now too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> But is the 4300 better than the 860k in gaming terms?
> Its also cheaper in my country btw.


I doubt the 4300 is any better. It has L3 cache, which provides sort-of and advantage, but that cache is also quite slow for L3.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p4inkill3r*
> 
> I've got my base ready, now just to purchase the chip.
> 
> HAF X
> MSI A88X-G43


Holy molly dude, that's beautiful


----------



## chrisjames61

For the most part you read a lot of horror shows with any board that is 4+1 phase and FX cpu's.


----------



## BobbyTheBuilder

Whats the best ITX board for this chip? I might plan to get one since its cheap, and i'm looking for high clocks just somewhere in the 4.3 area. Inside the INWIN 901


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BobbyTheBuilder*
> 
> Whats the best ITX board for this chip? I might plan to get one since its cheap, and i'm looking for high clocks just somewhere in the 4.3 area. Inside the INWIN 901


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*Motherboard:* MSI A88XI AC Mini ITX FM2+ Motherboard ($96.99 @ Directron)
*Total:* $96.99
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-19 23:50 EDT-0400_


----------



## YooJaeSuk

Um guys. I ordered a MSI A88XM and it wont post. I tried another motherboard and gpu with the same psu and it post.


----------



## jsc1973

You got a bad motherboard. It happens sometimes.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

So i have to RMA it?


----------



## jsc1973

Unless you want to use it as a doorstop, that is what I would recommend you do.


----------



## Rektifying

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Um guys. I ordered a MSI A88XM and it wont post. I tried another motherboard and gpu with the same psu and it post.


Don't RMA that bad boy just yet! I am assuming your MSI A88XM will not post with the AMD 860K? Here is what is happening to a bunch of people. (Myself included) A lot of the FM2+ motherboards were produced BEFORE the 860K was released. They will work fine, but require a BIOS update beforehand. I know... how the he// are you suppose to update the bios without a processor? Simple... you cant! HaHa I ended up calling a local computer repair company in my area. The guy was really cool and let me borrow an older FM2 APU. I just used it to post to Bios then flashed it immediately. I didn't even paste the thing. I just set my cpu cooler on top of it! HAHA


----------



## Dimensive

Just purchased this chip today. Going to use it in a SFF build for gaming and folding during the Foldathons.


----------



## YooJaeSuk

I might just return it and get a crossblade ranger since i can bios usb boot. But no one has replied to thread to see if it was worth the money


----------



## Rektifying

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I might just return it and get a crossblade ranger since i can bios usb boot. But no one has replied to thread to see if it was worth the money


The crossblade ranger not only looks like a great board but I have heard it is as well. If you have a case for a full ATX board I say go for it! Hopefully has it a more current bios.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I might just return it and get a crossblade ranger since i can bios usb boot. But no one has replied to thread to see if it was worth the money


I think it's worth it, but I already spent money on the board, so I might be a bit biased, hah.


----------



## kxnxng

Just thought i'd join in since i recently purchased a 860k with crossblade ranger, i can confirm the bios usb is working like a charm when updating the biossince i didnt have any other FM2+ CPU either, just a formatted USB stick with the biosfile on there and it worked.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Just thought i'd join in since i recently purchased a 860k with crossblade ranger, i can confirm the bios usb is working like a charm when updating the biossince i didnt have any other FM2+ CPU either, just a formatted USB stick with the biosfile on there and it worked.


Welcome. Glad to hear that it was simple updating the bios.


----------



## SYPH

For people who want this chip used with a 860K with a ITX motherboard. Most reviewers are able to overclock the A10 to 4.5 Ghz or so

http://www.play3r.net/reviews/motherboards/msi-a88xi-ac-review/7/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09igs1amIl0


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Just thought i'd join in since i recently purchased a 860k with crossblade ranger, i can confirm the bios usb is working like a charm when updating the biossince i didnt have any other FM2+ CPU either, just a formatted USB stick with the biosfile on there and it worked.


Welcome! Yup the Crossblade Ranger and A88X-Pro allow for BIOS update via a special usb port, so updating the bios for the 860K is a piece of cake


----------



## SYPH

Too bad the a88x pro looks like crap


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Too bad the a88x pro looks like crap


Haha, right?!?!? I *may* have picked up the CBR in part due to the color scheme on the pro.


----------



## drmrlordx

You guys must have something against Georgia Tech, just about any Pittsburgh sports team, and I don't know how many other college/pro sports teams. Black and gold is a classic.


----------



## Goldn3agle

I'm a massive fan of black and gold, I even sprayed my GPUs and plated my memory gold







, but Asus' idea of black and gold is more like black and brown/yellow it isn't implemented well at all, that's one reason I went with the Extreme 6+ it has a very neutral appeal.


----------



## SYPH

Anyone here think a 4.5 ghz 860k and r9 270 overclocked can play games well? My local frys has a r9 270 for 120 new


----------



## p4inkill3r

I think it would be able to play many games at decent settings @ 1080p.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Anyone here think a 4.5 ghz 860k and r9 270 overclocked can play games well? My local frys has a r9 270 for 120 new


Exactly what I was running on my mATX rig, before switching from the D3H to Crossblade ranger and adding a second card for crossfire, and it gamed very well at 1080p in most titles, even some current AAA titles I managed a lot of decent settings levels while maintaining fluidity.

Even with the D3H throttling the 860K at 4,5 at times, it did very well, I just got greedy and wanted more, hah.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Too bad the a88x pro looks like crap


I felt the same way about the Ranger







Too ricer for my tastes. Plus I don't have a cheesy case window anyway.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> I might just return it and get a crossblade ranger since i can bios usb boot. But no one has replied to thread to see if it was worth the money


I have both a Crossblade Ranger and a A88X-PRO. Both are worth every penny I paid for them. ASUS high end AM3+ and FM2+ BIOS are top notch. Way better than Gigabyte or ASRock imho.They use very beefy chokes and top notch mosfets. The pcb's are thick. I can't comment on their low end boards as I never purchased one.


----------



## SYPH

They should release the a88x gamer in the states


----------



## SYPH

Im more surprised how a 80 dollar chip can somewhat compete with a 180 locked i5


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Im more surprised how a 80 dollar chip can somewhat compete with a 180 locked i5


As long as one invests in the extras to OC reliably (good mobo, cooling) then the price/perf ratio doesnt look as good. But even at stock with bargain parts it does a great job, all things considered.


----------



## SYPH

At stock it still seems pretty fast to me personally. I guess we are all spoiled by fast products now, most of us


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> They should release the a88x gamer in the states


I thought that it was because it was reviewed at a lot of sites.


----------



## SYPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I thought that it was because it was reviewed at a lot of sites.


Not found at newegg or ncix the last time i checked


----------



## YooJaeSuk

Order the crossblade, after shipping back my MSI. How long do you guys plan on keeping this chip? I mean now that i ordered a 150 dollar board for a 80 dollar chip, i feel like im gonna regret it later on.


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Order the crossblade, after shipping back my MSI. How long do you guys plan on keeping this chip? I mean now that i ordered a 150 dollar board for a 80 dollar chip, i feel like im gonna regret it later on.


I bought the Mobo for my 860k, knowing it would do what I want, but hoping for a Carrizo drop in this summer. Rumours are that there won't be a carrizo chip in the same ballpark for fm2+, so the 860k/7850k might be the top dogs available, barring any refresh to the the Kaveri Line up.


----------



## Nomadskid

@jackalopeater Did an amazing build called Overkillveri and he will be able to offer some excellent advice


----------



## SYPH

Aren't there the rumored 'Godvari' to drop on FM2+? If that's true, I hope they fix some of the overclocking issues, and northbridge issues with higher RAM. Hopefully easier to overclock is what im saying lmao


----------



## jackalopeater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Order the crossblade, after shipping back my MSI. How long do you guys plan on keeping this chip? I mean now that i ordered a 150 dollar board for a 80 dollar chip, i feel like im gonna regret it later on.


I love mine







The crossblade ranger is a joy to work with, My 860k is quite snappy on it.

I run it all day at 4.2ghz @ 1.4v

I could hit 4.8ghz for validation http://valid.x86.fr/x9z732

But rock solid at 4.7ghz even at high voltage with the memory at 2400mhz



link to imgur http://imgur.com/RYCBZWH


----------



## jackalopeater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Aren't there the rumored 'Godvari' to drop on FM2+? If that's true, I hope they fix some of the overclocking issues, and northbridge issues with higher RAM. Hopefully easier to overclock is what im saying lmao


If the rumors are true, then yes, it'll be a drop in to the FM2+

More of a refined version of Kaveri.

Again, all rumors at this moment.


----------



## Himo5

The word is that rather than Carrizo there will be a Kaveri refresh available in June now being called Godavari with a 0.1Ghz CPU Turbo speed upgrade and a 19% GPU speed upgrade, in much the same way as Richland upgraded Trinity.

There might be hope for something more than that if parts of the Kaveri chip were issued as disabled and are now to be enabled - which might explain why Asus issued the Crossblade Ranger.

The top line part will be the A10-8850K.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

The replacement of the 860K, which is the 870K I think, will actually have a lower base/turbo clock. Unless they improve OCing in general with higher headroom/clocks I see the 870K as a fail. All the leaked/rumored Godavar APU/CPUs seem a bit boring kind of like how Broadwell is seeming boring compared to Haswell. Both Broadwell for LGA and Godavari just seem like a placeholder for people looking for new hardware. Their real goal and punch seems to be Skylake and Zen.


----------



## Tony Lens

Greetings friends. I have the 860k-Crossblade ranger combo since Monday. I currently have my cpu at 4.180 vcore 1.300 with all the power savings on.


----------



## SYPH

yea im keeping this chip until 2017 when zen is released in 2016 and gets cheaper


----------



## Goldn3agle

I'm planning the same unless I suddenly come into ridiculous amounts of money.


----------



## HeadGear

Godveri, or whatever it will be called, better have higher oc potential on the cut down CPU only part, bit knowing how little interest there seems to be from the review sites about these CPUs, it will probably be us that finds out, hah.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Godveri, or whatever it will be called, better have higher oc potential on the cut down CPU only part, bit knowing how little interest there seems to be from the review sites about these CPUs, it will probably be us that finds out, hah.


Haha, not sure I want to be one of those guinea pigs this time


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Haha, not sure I want to be one of those guinea pigs this time


if the disabled GPU version is as cheap as the 860k was, I'm sure a few of us will give it a shot.


----------



## DannyDK

Any date on when the 870k will be released?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Nothing set in stone. Rumors say mid-2015


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Order the crossblade, after shipping back my MSI. How long do you guys plan on keeping this chip? I mean now that i ordered a 150 dollar board for a 80 dollar chip, i feel like im gonna regret it later on.


I don't think you will. The board is top notch. Fun to tinker with all the overclocking settings.


----------



## SYPH

This pic makes the A88x Pro look not too ****ty lol


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nakano2k1*
> 
> The only thing is the Crossblade ranger is the only ROG board from Asus for the FM2+ platform right now. It's also only available in ATX format and goes for about 180 dollars.


If all you want are the overclocking capabilities, the A88X-PRO is every bit its equal and is only $95 after rebate at Newegg right now. The Crossblade Ranger has the sizzle, but both boards have the steak.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I have both a Crossblade Ranger and a A88X-PRO. Both are worth every penny I paid for them. ASUS high end AM3+ and FM2+ BIOS are top notch. Way better than Gigabyte or ASRock imho.They use very beefy chokes and top notch mosfets. The pcb's are thick. I can't comment on their low end boards as I never purchased one.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YooJaeSuk*
> 
> Order the crossblade, after shipping back my MSI. How long do you guys plan on keeping this chip? I mean now that i ordered a 150 dollar board for a 80 dollar chip, i feel like im gonna regret it later on.


I doubt you'll regret the purchase. A comment I made on the A88X-PRO after I bought it (back when it was $130) was that the board was of such high quality that AMD needed to make a CPU worthy of being run in it. The Crossblade Ranger comes with the same build quality and also has a much better onboard sound section, the ROG design scheme, an Intel LAN controller that's supposed to be better than the A88X's Realtek, and the ROG BIOS.

I haven't seen any complaints about either one of those boards from anyone who knew what they were doing. As far as keeping the chip, I'll keep the 860K until Zen comes out unless the Kaveri Refresh Athlon is a killer OC'er, and if so, I'll give the 860K to a friend who's running a 6400K right now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> The replacement of the 860K, which is the 870K I think, will actually have a lower base/turbo clock. Unless they improve OCing in general with higher headroom/clocks I see the 870K as a fail. All the leaked/rumored Godavar APU/CPUs seem a bit boring kind of like how Broadwell is seeming boring compared to Haswell. Both Broadwell for LGA and Godavari just seem like a placeholder for people looking for new hardware. Their real goal and punch seems to be Skylake and Zen.


I don't believe those specs that have been supposedly "leaked" for a second. They make no sense. There's no reason why AMD would release a refresh of an existing CPU design at clock rates lower than the original release. The 870K is supposedly a 3.5 base/3.7 turbo chip, while the 860K is a 3.7/4.0. If that's true, no one will buy it unless it's a preposterously good OC chip, and if it is, AMD would be stupid not to sell it at a higher clock.


----------



## Himo5

I love my A88X-Pro, it's the best board I've ever had by a mile. Solid as a rock and equal in capability to anything else in FM2+. The main reason it doesn't get mentioned so often, apart from price, is that supplies of it were so patchy in the first months of FM2+. Nowadays you can find it at a price which should make it the first choice for anyone with an APU - from Trinity onwards.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If all you want are the overclocking capabilities, the A88X-PRO is every bit its equal and is only $95 after rebate at Newegg right now. The Crossblade Ranger has the sizzle, but both boards have the steak.
> 
> I doubt you'll regret the purchase. A comment I made on the A88X-PRO after I bought it (back when it was $130) was that the board was of such high quality that AMD needed to make a CPU worthy of being run in it. The Crossblade Ranger comes with the same build quality and also has a much better onboard sound section, the ROG design scheme, an Intel LAN controller that's supposed to be better than the A88X's Realtek, and the ROG BIOS.
> 
> I haven't seen any complaints about either one of those boards from anyone who knew what they were doing. As far as keeping the chip, I'll keep the 860K until Zen comes out unless the Kaveri Refresh Athlon is a killer OC'er, and if so, I'll give the 860K to a friend who's running a 6400K right now.
> I don't believe those specs that have been supposedly "leaked" for a second. They make no sense. There's no reason why AMD would release a refresh of an existing CPU design at clock rates lower than the original release. The 870K is supposedly a 3.5 base/3.7 turbo chip, while the 860K is a 3.7/4.0. If that's true, no one will buy it unless it's a preposterously good OC chip, and if it is, AMD would be stupid not to sell it at a higher clock.


If it can't hit 5GHz I wont be interested. I have the 5GHz bug now.


----------



## kxnxng

For me the Crossblade was simply cheaper by a couple of euros , currently got my 860k running on 4.2 ghz , didnt get higher stable yet on the stock cooler.


----------



## SYPH

I agree with Yoo. With Direct X 12 and how it handles multi threading, I wonder how the Athlon series will fare paired with high end GPU. Makes me wonder if going for the FX series was a wiser choice for future proof wise


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> For me the Crossblade was simply cheaper by a couple of euros , currently got my 860k running on 4.2 ghz , didnt get higher stable yet on the stock cooler.


Stock Cooler.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> I agree with Yoo. With Direct X 12 and how it handles multi threading, I wonder how the Athlon series will fare paired with high end GPU. Makes me wonder if going for the FX series was a wiser choice for future proof wise


DX12 isn't the crucial part of the equation, it's how many simultaneous threads that the game developer can or will code their game to run. And they're not likely, even if they actually care to optimize for multiple cores, that they're going to code for more than four threads anytime soon. The "sweet spot" for gaming rigs these days is an Intel i5, a 4c/4t CPU. This is why recent games are being targeted for four threads and don't always run optimally on Pentium G3258. Since an 860K is already 4c/4t, a game programmed for four threads isn't going to be gimped by running on one.

Anything that can support more than four simultaneous threads is still going to run on a quad-core. There are only so many tasks that a game can off-load to an extra core, and there would be very little time, even on totally optimized code, when eight threads would ever be active at once. A game is going to care more about IPC and FP performance, both of which are a lot better on a Steamroller core than a Piledriver core. And by the time we might see anything that can actually run on six or eight threads and max them out, no one's going want to run an FX processor because it's going to be seriously obsolete. We'll probably be three or four generations of CPU's beyond where we are now. At least.

DX12 is more about reducing overhead between the hardware and the software as it's about better running across multiple cores. The closer to the metal that a game can run, without adding complex software layers between the game and the hardware, the better. This is why games are playable on weak console hardware--they're able to run closer to the metal. This was the whole idea behind Mantle, and it's also the idea behind DX12 and Vulkan.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I love my A88X-Pro, it's the best board I've ever had by a mile. Solid as a rock and equal in capability to anything else in FM2+. The main reason it doesn't get mentioned so often, apart from price, is that supplies of it were so patchy in the first months of FM2+. Nowadays you can find it at a price which should make it the first choice for anyone with an APU - from Trinity onwards.


About the only thing I can say against the a88x-Pro is that there is no UEFI setting to turn off the beeping complaint I get every time I start my machine from having nothing hooked up to the onboard fan headers (I use nothing but molex connectors to power my fans and I run them at 100% all the time, so no need to plug in the PWM header). Well that and it has no DDR3-2666 setting (the Crossblade Ranger does).

Otherwise, awesome board.


----------



## SYPH

Thanks for the explaination. Never really understood APIs lol.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I love my A88X-Pro, it's the best board I've ever had by a mile. Solid as a rock and equal in capability to anything else in FM2+. The main reason it doesn't get mentioned so often, apart from price, is that supplies of it were so patchy in the first months of FM2+. Nowadays you can find it at a price which should make it the first choice for anyone with an APU - from Trinity onwards.


I got mine on eBay. Basically brand spanking new. $51!


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> About the only thing I can say against the a88x-Pro is that there is no UEFI setting to turn off the beeping complaint I get every time I start my machine from having nothing hooked up to the onboard fan headers (I use nothing but molex connectors to power my fans and I run them at 100% all the time, so no need to plug in the PWM header). Well that and it has no DDR3-2666 setting (the Crossblade Ranger does).
> 
> Otherwise, awesome board.


Whats wrong with the CPU / CHA_FANx "ignore" option?
The DDR-2666 setting = set the BCLK to 111MHz.


----------



## SYPH

Thanks for the explaination. Never really understood API. So does the API take away some of the bottleneck with such as a 860K and 970?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Whats wrong with the CPU / CHA_FANx "ignore" option?


Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see it. I do see an option to halt the boot on fan error (I have that option disabled), but nothing to stop it from going beeeeeeeeeeeep beep beep and leaving an error message.
Quote:


> The DDR-2666 setting = set the BCLK to 111MHz.


Yeahhhhh been there, done that, unfortunately at any bclk above 100 it's hard for me to get my NB stable above ~1900 mhz. Always a tradeoff. Having the DDR3-2666 option in the UEFI would give me a little more flexibility. It's not that big of a deal.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see it. I do see an option to halt the boot on fan error (I have that option disabled), but nothing to stop it from going beeeeeeeeeeeep beep beep and leaving an error message.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Yeahhhhh been there, done that, unfortunately at any bclk above 100 it's hard for me to get my NB stable above ~1900 mhz. Always a tradeoff. Having the DDR3-2666 option in the UEFI would give me a little more flexibility. It's not that big of a deal.


There is no true DDR-2666 option in Crossblade either.
2666 is always either 111MHz (2400) or 125MHz (2133) on all APUs as 2400MHz is the highest ratio they support.
Exactly the same thing on both of the boards.


----------



## Himo5

I used 8GBt TridentX 2666/C11 kit on my first installation - with an A10-6800K - and set it to 2666MHz straight from it's XMP profile, no problems, and I've used that technique ever since.

As far as running fans off the PSU is concerned there's a neat trick of running a single line from the tac reader line - 3rd pin after the black ground wire - of one of the fans to plug into the board's CPU fan header. This not only fools the board that it's running the fan but also supplies you with a fan speed reading.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I used 8GBt TridentX 2666/C11 kit on my first installation - with an A10-6800K - and set it to 2666MHz straight from it's XMP profile, no problems, and I've used that technique ever since.


I figured that you had to get 2666 by using memory that runs at that speed out of the box unless you forced it by changing the BCLK setting. Thanks for the information.

You're doing that on an A88X-Pro and not a Crossblade Ranger, aren't you? The Pro doesn't officially support 2666 in any way. Interesting that it works anyway, but then again, I don't think there's a whole lot of actual difference between the two boards. If you look at the PCB's, they're roughly 90 percent identical. I think ASUS just took the A88X-PRO design, gave it better sound and a better onboard LAN, and put it on the ROG color scheme to create the Ranger.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SYPH*
> 
> Thanks for the explaination. Never really understood API. So does the API take away some of the bottleneck with such as a 860K and 970?


A more efficient API, like Mantle, Vulkan, or DX12, reduces the workload that the CPU has to deal with in any kind of 3D graphics rendering, whether it be in games or in professional applications. and also distributes that workload in a more optimal manner.


----------



## Himo5

I'm still hoping Asus issued the Ranger because they knew something about Godavari.

At the moment I don't feel that Kaveri is worth overclocking - I don't really think it's *worthy* of the Pro or the Ranger (lol) - otherwise I might have explored the possibility of going above 2700GHz with the TridentX.

I got this 8GBt kit two years ago from Ebuyer for less than £100 as shop soil and here I am two years later balking at a 16GBt kit of the same mark - it just shows how stagnant the price of ram has become.


----------



## SYPH

I wished kaveri was a good overclocker. Plan to SLI a 960 or 970 in the future, yes call me crazy (1440p 21:9)


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I'm still hoping Asus issued the Ranger because they knew something about Godavari.
> 
> At the moment I don't feel that Kaveri is worth overclocking - I don't really think it's *worthy* of the Pro or the Ranger (lol) - otherwise I might have explored the possibility of going above 2700GHz with the TridentX.


You said exactly what I've said before. I only ended up with the Pro because I had a problem with my computer and didn't know if it was a bad CPU or a bad motherboard. I needed to get the computer working that day, and I needed another FM2 board anyway for another project, so I went to the Tiger Direct store in Raleigh, and the only decent FM2 board there was the A88X-PRO, for $130. I bit the bullet and bought it, and when I got home, discovered I had a bad CPU--it malfunctioned in the Pro, too. I went back that evening and got a new CPU, and the people at Tiger even graciously took my bad CPU in a direct swap even though I didn't buy the original one there, which stunned me. (Maybe it was because I didn't return their $130 motherboard...lol.)

My first impression of the board was that I was surprised that ASUS bothered to build something that good for the APU platform, and I've posted the same comment here--AMD doesn't have a CPU worthy of the motherboard, and the same goes for the Ranger, which hadn't come out at the time I bought the Pro. With that said, the 860K is a pretty solid performer when overclocked. The only problem with it is that most of them seem to require either a Pro or a Ranger to reach their full potential.

If we're really lucky, maybe Godavari will be to Kaveri what Richland was to Trinity. A Steamroller quad at close to 5 GHz would be a match for a stock Intel 4690.


----------



## chrisjames61

I am not a legendary overclocker by any means. My 860K seems to hit a wall at 4.350 GHz. To run this I need 1.4875 vcore. Which is .1v over the stock setting. This may hit 1.5 under load with LLC set to high. To get to 4.50 GHz I need like 1.52v and the resulting LLC spike.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I am not a legendary overclocker by any means. My 860K seems to hit a wall at 4.350 GHz. To run this I need 1.4875 vcore. Which is .1v over the stock setting. This may hit 1.5 under load with LLC set to high. To get to 4.50 GHz I need like 1.52v and the resulting LLC spike.


Yeah. I kind of want to go at overclocking an 860K/870K again but on a Asus motherboard this time. Last time I used a Gigabyte (F2A88XM-D3H) and while I was succesfull up to 4.7GHz (at least Prime95/OCCT stable) but I did not really understand some of the settings in the BIOS like Gigabyte's LLC. Now that I'm used to Asus settings on the Crosshair V Formula-Z I feel I could OC smarter and better on the FM2+ platform. 5GHz Steamroller would be a nice pair with a 5GHz Piledriver 8-Core.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah. I kind of want to go at overclocking an 860K/870K again but on a Asus motherboard this time. Last time I used a Gigabyte (F2A88XM-D3H) and while I was succesfull up to 4.7GHz (at least Prime95/OCCT stable) but I did not really understand some of the settings in the BIOS like Gigabyte's LLC. Now that I'm used to Asus settings on the Crosshair V Formula-Z I feel I could OC smarter and better on the FM2+ platform. 5GHz Steamroller would be a nice pair with a 5GHz Piledriver 8-Core.


I have a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 R4. Not a bad board at all. The BIOS leaves a lot to be desired compared to my Sabertooth R2 and my Crossblade Ranger or my A88X-PRO.


----------



## balutmaster

Just registered to say: Good info on the 860k in this thread. haha


----------



## jackalopeater

Well I finally dialed this in on my 860k, the Crossblade Range held the voltage no problem and with a Swiftech h320 keeping it cool temps were never a problem









Cinebench
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2415183/


CPU-Z
http://valid.x86.fr/x9z732


----------



## Nomadskid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackalopeater*
> 
> Well I finally dialed this in on my 860k, the Crossblade Range held the voltage no problem and with a Swiftech h320 keeping it cool temps were never a problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinebench
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2415183/
> 
> 
> CPU-Z
> http://valid.x86.fr/x9z732


1.616V


----------



## IsaacM

Ranger and Swiftech 320? What was the total cost?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*


Oh, so it's under a fan speed setting. No wonder I missed it . . .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> There is no true DDR-2666 option in Crossblade either.
> 2666 is always either 111MHz (2400) or 125MHz (2133) on all APUs as 2400MHz is the highest ratio they support.
> Exactly the same thing on both of the boards.


Hmm . . .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I used 8GBt TridentX 2666/C11 kit on my first installation - with an A10-6800K - and set it to 2666MHz straight from it's XMP profile, no problems, and I've used that technique ever since.


That's good for people who have the appropriate XMP profile. It's a shame you can't just dial it in by hand though. It would be nice if AMD extended support for DDR3 up to DDR3-3000 or so to match availability of "enthusiast" memory.


----------



## kxnxng




----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nomadskid*
> 
> 1.616V


I was thinking the same thing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> For those interested i got my 860K stable @ 4.3Ghz using the boxed cooler, did a couple of different stress tests.
> http://valid.x86.fr/77nb9d


1.1 core volts?


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I was thinking the same thing
> 1.1 core volts?


hmm dont know why it's showing that, in AI suite my voltage is 1.416


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> hmm dont know why it's showing that, in AI suite my voltage is 1.416


that's pretty impressive for the stock cooler. My Zalman 9900 MAX-R "looses it's cool" after 1.45v.
With a crossblade ranger you really should get a bigger cooler and see how high you can get the 860k.


----------



## jackalopeater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> Ranger and Swiftech 320? What was the total cost?


Lol, I got the cooler a long time ago on sale from NCIX.com for $129 with push/pull Noctua NF-F12s that I snagged for $7 each at a local scratch n dent cause the boxes got wet. I typically use it on my FX 8350, but was having fun, topped out at 43*c according to AISuite


----------



## AOMG

Hi guys, i'm new here. $ 80 for a quad core seems to interest me, I'm wondering has anyone here overclocked this board on a ITX motherboard?


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> Hi guys, i'm new here. $ 80 for a quad core seems to interest me, I'm wondering has anyone here overclocked this board on a ITX motherboard?


The gigabyte itx board is the best of the three. Also, if you can get your chip to 4.5 GHz, you can expect performance on par with an i5 4460.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> The gigabyte itx board is the best of the three. Also, if you can get your chip to 4.5 GHz, you can expect performance on par with an i5 4460.


Actually, for most stuff, it would be more on par with an i3.

Not AMD bashing, as all my rigs use AMD CPU's.... just trying to give a more realistic idea of what to expect.


----------



## AOMG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Actually, for most stuff, it would be more on par with an i3.
> 
> Not AMD bashing, as all my rigs use AMD CPU's.... just trying to give a more realistic idea of what to expect.


That's pretty much all i'm looking for, since I bought a 960 for free witcher 3, but the minimum requirements is a quad core. So I shouldn't even consider the MSI A88XI?


----------



## IsaacM

I'm sure you're right, I was only referring to someone's passmark benchmark earlier in this thread. Their 860k was on par with an i5 4460, could have been i5 4440. A search could clear it up im sure.


----------



## IsaacM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> That's pretty much all i'm looking for, since I bought a 960 for free witcher 3, but the minimum requirements is a quad core. So I shouldn't even consider the MSI A88XI?


They're all fine really, get the one with the features you like best.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Yeah passmark wise it may beat or be close with some i5s but realistically in gaming, design software I don't think 860k can contend with a i5 let alone a haswell version.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> That's pretty much all i'm looking for, since I bought a 960 for free witcher 3, but the minimum requirements is a quad core. So I shouldn't even consider the MSI A88XI?


Pretty soon (DX12), these lower end CPU's are going to be a lot more capable anyways.....









Are you having to have an ITX setup? That may not overclock quite as well.... but if you have to have ITX, that MSI is one of the nicer boards....


----------



## AOMG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Pretty soon (DX12), these lower end CPU's are going to be a lot more capable anyways.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you having to have an ITX setup? That may not overclock quite as well.... but if you have to have ITX, that MSI is one of the nicer boards....


Possibly yea lol. First build, and now a jobless student so have to work with what I have haha. I've just searched some videos and reviews and people seem to be able to push to 4.5 Ghz with an air cooler, sadly no manual voltage. Do you know if the MSI A88XI works out of the box with this chip?


----------



## Agent Smith1984

It definitely will.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> It definitely will.


Really? It looks like it needs the 1.3 BIOS.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

hmmm, maybe it does.... this board is pre-kaveri I guess


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IsaacM*
> 
> I'm sure you're right, I was only referring to someone's passmark benchmark earlier in this thread. Their 860k was on par with an i5 4460, could have been i5 4440. A search could clear it up im sure.


At 4.5 GHz, I get a CPUMark of 6940 and Single Core rating of 1949. i5-4460 tests out on the same benchmark as 6678 and 1961, respectively. On a broad-based performance test like that, the 860K at 4.5 is equal to a locked i5, in single or multi-core performance, but...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Yeah passmark wise it may beat or be close with some i5s but realistically in gaming, design software I don't think 860k can contend with a i5 let alone a haswell version.


It depends on what you're doing. Most games depend on conventional CPU performance, and make poor or nonexistent use of additional cores or advanced instruction sets. The 860K is significantly better than quad-core Piledriver or Trinity/Richland on games because of improvements in the new architecture, but even at 4.5, it doesn't quite equal a 4460 in gaming, but it's not that far off. Probably more in the range of a stock i5-2400 or 2500. It's no slouch, especially for $80, and is entirely capable of being used for a good mid-range gaming rig with an R9 280 or thereabouts.

As far as using on an ITX board, bear in mind you probably won't make 4.5 unless you get a really good chip. Most of the stable 4.5 overclocks are coming from the top-end ASUS 6+2 full ATX boards. A top ITX board can probably get you to about 4.2 or 4.3 on a typical 860K.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> With a crossblade ranger you really should get a bigger cooler and see how high you can get the 860k.


Most Kaveri chips are low leakage and don't run hot even when overclocked. A lot of people are getting good overclocks with nothing better than stuff in the 212 Evo class. I've had to use a Megahalems, but my 860K is an exception and not the rule.

With a Crossblade Ranger, you can do whatever you want to with an 860K up to the point where you toast it.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> At 4.5 GHz, I get a CPUMark of 6940 and Single Core rating of 1949. i5-4460 tests out on the same benchmark as 6678 and 1961, respectively. On a broad-based performance test like that, the 860K at 4.5 is equal to a locked i5, in single or multi-core performance, but...
> It depends on what you're doing. Most games depend on conventional CPU performance, and make poor or nonexistent use of additional cores or advanced instruction sets. The 860K is significantly better than quad-core Piledriver or Trinity/Richland on games because of improvements in the new architecture, but even at 4.5, it doesn't quite equal a 4460 in gaming, but it's not that far off. Probably more in the range of a stock i5-2400 or 2500. It's no slouch, especially for $80, and is entirely capable of being used for a good mid-range gaming rig with an R9 280 or thereabouts.


Like you said it depends on what you're doing. I am never and will never downplay the 860K as I enjoyed it while I had it. Only thing is that so far I have experienced an overall increase in FPS with a 4.7-5GHz 8350 vs a 4.5GHz-4.7GHz 860K. When a locked Ivybridge/Haswell i5 beats AMD CPUs and once in a while loses/ties to a 5GHz 8-Core it's just hard to say that an 860K is equal to an i5 4460 even at 4.5GHz. I can agree with the 860K being in the range of Sandy Bridge but Haswell not as much. I just don't want people expecting something that they may not be able to achieve and then get disappointed/mad at AMD.

I wish people would include at least one Kaveri CPU/APU in benchmarks. Nowadays I only see Haswell vs FX and sometimes Ivy Bridge(E)/Sandy Bridge(E) CPUs. If someone did an indepth benchmark of a overclocked 7850k/860K at 4.5GHz with games, many benchmarks, custom workloads of adobe products, compression, etc it would be awesome for comparison reasons and to convince the naysayers of the 860K all over the web.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Most of the stable 4.5 overclocks are coming from the top-end ASUS 6+2 full ATX boards.


I did/had that on Asrock Fatality Killer and its only 4+2, had to use a Cooler Master 120mm watercooler to keep it cool though and i could only do it after a switch to MX-4 paste, before the switch to MX-4 i would throttle on anything past 4.4 but not after 
For 4.6-4.7 the chip absolutely needs the Pro or Ranger board. On another note, the same chip (the 7850K that i had) scorred some 10 points more in CB R15 when on the Asus Gaming 4+2 board, dont know if it was because of the better settings available in the BIOS, everything else in the rig was the same only the board was swapped.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I did/had that on Asrock Fatality Killer and its only 4+2, had to use a Cooler Master 120mm watercooler to keep it cool though and i could only do it after a switch to MX-4 paste, before the switch to MX-4 i would throttle on anything past 4.4 but not after
> For 4.6-4.7 the chip absolutely needs the Pro or Ranger board. On another note, the same chip (the 7850K that i had) scorred some 10 points more in CB R15 when on the Asus Gaming 4+2 board, dont know if it was because of the better settings available in the BIOS, everything else in the rig was the same only the board was swapped.


Wouldn't say absolutely need a Pro/Ranger. I had a semi good chip that got 4.7GHz Prime95, AIDA, and OCCT stable (did not know about IBT then) on a Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H. I even got NB to 2200MHz stable too. But that was just my experience of the OEM chip I bought. Most other good chips i haven't seen similar results so far.

I did add extra cooling for the 4+2 power phase though. Added alum heatsinks and then had a fan actively cooling the heatsinks/vrms.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Most Kaveri chips are low leakage and don't run hot even when overclocked. A lot of people are getting good overclocks with nothing better than stuff in the 212 Evo class. I've had to use a Megahalems, but my 860K is an exception and not the rule.


I'm thinking I have an exception also. @1.45v it drops to 5-7 degrees thermal margin under full load. Unfortunately I've not had much luck with anything over 4.4 stable on my gigabyte UP4, so I didn't worry about getting a bigger cooler.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I'm thinking I have an exception also. @1.45v it drops to 5-7 degrees thermal margin under full load. Unfortunately I've not had much luck with anything over 4.4 stable on my gigabyte UP4, so I didn't worry about getting a bigger cooler.


What thermal paste are you using? I highly recommend Artic MX-4


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> What thermal paste are you using? I highly recommend Artic MX-4


actually that is the thermal compound Im using


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> I wish people would include at least one Kaveri CPU/APU in benchmarks. Nowadays I only see Haswell vs FX and sometimes Ivy Bridge(E)/Sandy Bridge(E) CPUs. If someone did an indepth benchmark of a overclocked 7850k/860K at 4.5GHz with games, many benchmarks, custom workloads of adobe products, compression, etc it would be awesome for comparison reasons and to convince the naysayers of the 860K all over the web.


I may have found at least some of what you are looking for: http://pclab.pl/art60391.html
It doens't look so good in a lot of games compared to Intel or even FX 6 series.
Of course not as good doesn't necessarily mean not good enough.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I may have found at least some of what you are looking for: http://pclab.pl/art60391.html
> It doens't look so good in a lot of games compared to Intel or even FX 6 series.
> Of course not as good doesn't necessarily mean not good enough.


Thanks I'll take a look when I'm in front of a computer

Wow just the type of review/benchmark I was looking for. Tests a good amount of games, and custom work loads. Does this with both stock settings and overclocked to 4.5GHz. They also overclock the other CPUs compared too. Can get a bit of information out of this article. Enough to make an excel sheet.

.:edit:.

Well just using the data of the link @gaster provided, the 860K @4.5GHz provides about the same performance as a stock FX 6350 with Turbo Boost enabled. The 860K takes some wins, some losses. In other workloads the 860K @4.5GHz provides the performance of the stock FX 6350 but usually better. Sometimes the margin of the 860K @4.5GHz between FX 6350 is kind of big but not big enough to catch up completely with an Haswell i3 either. The estimation that the 860K OCed can compete with an i5 2400/2500 seems pretty much on target IMO though that is in non-gaming tasks. For games an OCed 860K is more of an FX 6350. Even then the numbers depend on what type of GPU you use and how many cores the game utilizes. In Far Cry 4, with a NVIDIA video card the distance between the 860K (4.6GHz) and FX 6350 is close. But when compared while using a AMD GPU the distance between the 860K and 6350 is a bit bigger but in some games it's different


----------



## NaroonGTX

What's the best FM2+ overclocking board? I'm thinking of picking up one of these Athlon 860k's and would like to shoot for a decent OC on it.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> What's the best FM2+ overclocking board? I'm thinking of picking up one of these Athlon 860k's and would like to shoot for a decent OC on it.


Either of the ASUS Crossblade Ranger or the A88X-PRO.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Thanks. Also got any ideas on what a good air cooler would be for it?


----------



## drmrlordx

A lot of people run stock or go with the 212. That's okay for up to 4.5 ghz, most of the time. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Ignore me


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Ignore me


If you insist.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Alright... So I have managed 4.3ghz @ 1.475V bios / 1.456V load. 4.4ghz requires way too much voltage to stabilize, way over 1.525V, so 4.3ghz it is. I tried using medium LLC to bring down the offset but it has a tendancy to overshoot. I also have my ram running 2400mhz with 2000 NB @ 1.15V.

TESTS

50 runs IBT @ very high PASS.
28 hours of Large FFT Prime 95 PASS.
5 runs of Realbench benchmark PASS.
8 hours of Realbench stresstest (passed but not sure if errors occured, where do I check that?)

I ran a brief hour run of blendtest in P95 this morning using 12GB of ram and noticed my CPU voltage is bouncing from 1.456V to 1.464V but no other test revealed such behaviour. Is this an indication that the CPU is wanting that little extra .008V? I am eventually going to try and pass 24 hours plus blend, but am curious as to your thoughts on this guys, might save me some time. Thanks.


----------



## drmrlordx

My first thought is, yow, that's a lot of voltage for 4.3 ghz! Are you having temp issues with that chip?


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> My first thought is, yow, that's a lot of voltage for 4.3 ghz! Are you having temp issues with that chip?


That's what I thought also, but it wouldn't pass P95 Large FFT's or realbench without it. Just out of curiousity I ran the Asus auto tune to see what it would spit back at me, and it only would do 4.3 @ 1.512V before it started OC'ing the Bus. I figured I was doing alright with the voltage I am using currently since AI suite has a tendancy to overvolt. Anyways, no temp issues... max I have seen thus far is 45C on my Noctua NHD14


----------



## drmrlordx

Huh, looks like you lost the silicon lottery. Ugh. Sorry.

What does it take to get it stable at 4.2?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> I ran a brief hour run of blendtest in P95 this morning using 12GB of ram and noticed my CPU voltage is bouncing from 1.456V to 1.464V but no other test revealed such behaviour. Is this an indication that the CPU is wanting that little extra .008V? I am eventually going to try and pass 24 hours plus blend, but am curious as to your thoughts on this guys, might save me some time. Thanks.


That's normal. When under load, my actual voltage goes between 1.504 and 1.512, but usually at the latter. I have the voltage manually set at 1.518 in the BIOS (used to have to run at 1.525 for stability, but for some reason 1.518 is enough now), LLC at default settings. Turbo is off, but the p-states are still active. The chip throttled even at stock (the same behavior as reported with 7850K chips) with Turbo still enabled, but for whatever reason, doesn't do so at all with it off.

If you passed the test for an hour at those settings, go ahead and try it for 24. If it fails, boost the vcore to the next step up and try again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Thanks. Also got any ideas on what a good air cooler would be for it?


Like drmrlordx already suggested, a cheap 212 Evo is usually more than good enough. Most 860K's run cool even when overclocked. Occasionally, you see a high-leakage part that runs hot, or, as someone once suggested, possibly a part where the TIM under the heatspreader on the chip wasn't applied as well as it could be. But most of these are low leakers and don't run hot.

I've got a "hot" one, and even it hits 4.5 GHz at just over 1.5v with an old Megahalems. You don't need a D15 or anything like that for any 860K chip.

If you've already got a 212 or something in that class, just use that and you'll be good.


----------



## damric

My voltages also need to be pretty high considering such low overclock.


----------



## syl1979

Hi,

Is there any good willing person to make some benchmarks on GTAV ?

if possible :

Resolution 1280x720 (reduce impact of graphic card) / FXAA off / MSAA off
Settings Medium / High / Ultra ?
CPU at stock with Turbo
CPU at 4.2Ghz
CPU at 4.5Ghz


----------



## 7850K

Here's a guy at 4GHz 720p "normal" settings with only an R7 250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeUrnwDfBOI


----------



## Stray_Bullet

That was the longest game install ever, holay shiite GTA5 is huge!. Anyways, I didn't have much time last night to play, but with everything max except MSAA and in advanced graphic options everything set to off or minimum, I managed 50-60fps with the occasional dip to low to mid 40's. I am running @1080p / 4.3ghz / 2400 with a R9 290


----------



## damric

Has anyone tried the LN2 switch on the MSI A88X Gaming motherboards yet?


----------



## drmrlordx

I haven't, though take what I say with a grain of salt: Kaveri in general is a poor candidate for LN2 overclocking. It has problems below around -60C from what I've read. Flank3r did some LN2 action a few months ago and got only 5.2 ghz out of a 7850k. Maybe the 860k could fare a bit better, I don't know. Seems like a better candidate for phase.


----------



## damric

I am not an LN2 guy, but I was curious as to what exactly the switch does, if anyone had played with it.


----------



## Himo5

Here's 14 CPUZ validations above 4.8GHz. I should think they were all on LN2 or Dice but there may be some H2O in there as well. Whatever. It shows me that getting over 5GHz is still just a matter of temperature.

AMD A10-7850K @ 4823 MHz Submitted by Mohammad javad - 2014-12-12 11:24:10
AMD A10-7850K @ 4861 MHz Submitted by RAYMOND-PC - 2014-06-21 05:38:43
AMD A10-7850K @ 4885 MHz Submitted by Mohammad javad - 2014-12-17 20:30:55
AMD A10-7850K @ 4887 MHz Submitted by bthegnoll - 2014-05-14 05:53:25
AMD A10-7850K @ 4925 MHz Submitted by RAYMOND-PC - 2014-04-20 15:44:53
AMD A10-7850K @ 4966 MHz Submitted by Pasatoiutd - 2015-03-18 23:15:45
AMD A10-7850K @ 5099 MHz Submitted by Yin92 - 2014-08-10 21:14:38
AMD A10-7850K @ 5141 MHz Submitted by delly - 2014-05-11 17:41:43
AMD A10-7850K @ 5499 MHz Submitted by bboyjezz & n00b - 2014-01-15 01:27:56
AMD A10-7850K @ 5668 MHz Submitted by aliey29-ARX - 2015-03-21 07:06:53
AMD A10-7850K @ 5701 MHz Submitted by GASBK_TW - 2014-01-27 09:49:20
AMD A10-7850K @ 5756 MHz Submitted by GASBK_TW - 2014-01-27 10:07:55
AMD A10-7850K @ 5813 MHz Submitted by GASBK_TW - 2014-01-29 04:40:28
AMD A10-7850K @ 6137 MHz Submitted by MSI Toppc&TeamChianDFORDOG - 2014-03-02 08:48:41


----------



## AOMG

Whats the difference between overclocking and LN2 overclocking?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I am not an LN2 guy, but I was curious as to what exactly the switch does, if anyone had played with it.


It simply shorts the PROCHOT_L pin of the processor to the ground.
This pin is originally intended for CPU throttling.

It is also connected to the VRM controller and when the VRM overheats the controller will pull the pin low.
Pulling the pin low will cause the CPU to enter the lowest PState.

During LN2 sessions it allows the CPU to get as cold as possible (due low clocks and voltages) but it also allows
extremely fast clock control for validation purposes without any additional software running in the background.

Completely useless for 99.98% of the users.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> Whats the difference between overclocking and LN2 overclocking?


Overclocking is what it's called anytime you run a CPU or GPU at a clock rate higher than what it's rated for by the manufacturer.

LN2 is liquid nitrogen, a super-cold substance that some hobbyists use as a short-term cooling solution while trying to achieve extremely high overclocked speeds. It is impractical for long-term cooling of electronic components, but is the cooling solution of choice for trying to set overclocking records.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> It simply shorts the PROCHOT_L pin of the processor to the ground.
> This pin is originally intended for CPU throttling.
> 
> It is also connected to the VRM controller and when the VRM overheats the controller will pull the pin low.
> Pulling the pin low will cause the CPU to enter the lowest PState.
> 
> During LN2 sessions it allows the CPU to get as cold as possible (due low clocks and voltages) but it also allows
> extremely fast clock control for validation purposes without any additional software running in the background.
> 
> Completely useless for 99.98% of the users.


Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## AOMG

Thank you for the explanation. It's weird how we don't see benchmarks showing how this chip handles newer AAA games.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> Thank you for the explanation. It's weird how we don't see benchmarks showing how this chip handles newer AAA games.


AMD doesn't seem to send the gems like this to reviewers. If you think about it, there weren't many Athlon 750K, 760K, Phenom II 550 or 960T reviews either.


----------



## AOMG

Off Topic, but do you guys know if Witcher 3 requires a quad core to run?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Here's 14 CPUZ validations above 4.8GHz. I should think they were all on LN2 or Dice but there may be some H2O in there as well. Whatever. It shows me that getting over 5GHz is still just a matter of temperature.


This one gives me hope http://valid.canardpc.com/xncb6u 1.5v shouldn't need anything extreme
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AOMG*
> 
> Off Topic, but do you guys know if Witcher 3 requires a quad core to run?


the official minimum spec is a Phenom II X4 940


----------



## HeadGear

In regards to the Witcher 3, since the phenom II 940 is a 3ghz stock part, the IPC of the 860k surpasses phenom II, and the stock speeds of the 860k are up to 33% higher than that with boost, I am confident in saying that the 860k will have no problem with the game. That being said, if it ends up being a CPU bound title, it may not be ideal, but definitely should power the game well, especially when OC'd.

I'll post some benches once the game launches. Granted, my graphics will be Vram limited, but should still give a decent indicator.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> AMD doesn't seem to send the gems like this to reviewers. If you think about it, there weren't many Athlon 750K, 760K, Phenom II 550 or 960T reviews either.


I don't think most of the major review sites are really interested in doing reviews of anything but big-core chips. There were more reviews of the FX-9590, which was nothing but a factory overclocked 8350, than there were of the Athlon 760K or 860K.

That really doesn't benefit AMD right now, because unless you get a really good deal on an FX-83x0, the best value out there is with the 860K. When the FX-8310 was going for $99.99, you couldn't beat that, but those days seem to be long gone now. Cheap Athlons can still be readily had.

Even worse, most of the tests that have been run on the 7850K/860K by review sites did a half-assed job on it, and don't reflect its performance accurately. Part of that is AMD's fault for not correcting the overly aggressive power profile of the chip (the ridiculous random throttling to 3 GHz and the like) with a microcode update more appropriate for desktop usage, but any performance tuner with a good FM2+ motherboard can work around that.


----------



## Ketcchup

I have my 860K clocked to 4.2GHz and I get 30-40fps in the city, how do you manage to get 45-60fps??? (cpu usage is 100% in cores 0 and 2, 1 and 3 remains at 80%)

I get low fps even at lowest settings with my 270x


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> I have my 860K clocked to 4.2GHz and I get 30-40fps in the city, how do you manage to get 45-60fps??? (cpu usage is 100% in cores 0 and 2, 1 and 3 remains at 80%)
> 
> I get low fps even at lowest settings with my 270x


Whats the usage of your 270X?


----------



## syl1979

For those who have an Asus A88XMPlus card.

The brand new bios 2202 has allowed me to have northbridge overclock working (before I was frozen at second reboot)


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> For those who have an Asus A88XMPlus card.
> 
> The brand new bios 2202 has allowed me to have northbridge overclock working (before I was frozen at second reboot)


Is there any change in overclocking overall?


----------



## LPCobris

Hello guys...

Im going to get an 860k for my new AMD build...

Im on the fence for this two boards...

Asrock Fatal1ty FM2A88X+ Killer
or
MSI A88X-G45 Gaming

I want to keep my budget the minimum possible...

Witch one is the right choice?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello guys...
> 
> Im going to get an 860k for my new AMD build...
> 
> Im on the fence for this two boards...
> 
> Asrock Fatal1ty FM2A88X+ Killer
> or
> MSI A88X-G45 Gaming
> 
> I want to keep my budget the minimum possible...
> 
> Witch one is the right choice?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I think both of them are overkill, I mean, we are talking about a cheap CPU. I think A88XM-Pro is more than enough


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> I think both of them are overkill, I mean, we are talking about a cheap CPU. I think A88XM-Pro is more than enough


Thanks...

What about the Asus A88X Gamer?

I want to OC the CPU...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## LPCobris

Well...

I just purchased the MSI A88X-G45 Gamming...

From the 3 boards it was the most feature packed one....

I sure hope its any good for OC...

MSI 970 Gaming board is just not a good board at all...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Ketcchup

I'd go for the A88XM-Pro, it has 6+2 VRM.

The Asrock, MSI and Asus Gamer one have 4+2 vrm configurations (weird)

PS: A88XMPlus 2202 BIOS makes onboard audio not work. However I connected my headset to my monitor (which is connected to my 270X's HDMI) and the quality is super high compared to the ****ty Realtek chip this board has. Also I didn't notice any stability change as I'm still unable to reach 4.4GHz


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p4inkill3r*
> 
> The giant case took 4 cans of white, two cans of primer, and one can of orange. I used 3 coats of white and two coats of orange and it took about a week.
> 
> The motherboard took two days and much less paint, of course. I am going to have to retouch the NB heatsink and I may put a border on it as it seems to melt into the overall case, but I'm happy with how it turned out.


That looks awesome!

I have to ask though, how on earth did you paint the motherboard?

Sorry for the OT


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Well...
> 
> I just purchased the MSI A88X-G45 Gamming...
> 
> I sure hope its any good for OC...


It is a nice board. I read it overclocks well, hopefully you get a cpu that likes to overclock.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> It is a nice board. I read it overclocks well, hopefully you get a cpu that likes to overclock.


I for one im a little toasted with MSI...
My current board is an MSI 970 Gaming and it is a very lack luster board... Its going back with the FX8320 CPU.

Im going to try something new this time...

Why are you saying that? Isn´t the 860k good overclockers?

With my best Regards,

LPC


----------



## 7850K

compared with the previous piledriver athlons no they aren't great overclockers. Read back through this thread to see what others have been able to do.


----------



## CosmonautLaika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> For those who have an Asus A88XMPlus card.
> 
> The brand new bios 2202 has allowed me to have northbridge overclock working (before I was frozen at second reboot)


By the way, I tried these bios out as well and my internet stopped working -- realtek gigabit LAN didn't like them for some reason. I uninstalled the realtek drivers and reinstalled but no dice. Rolled back to 2102 and internet works again. So I guess I'll hold off--was looking forward to northbridge improvements.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> PS: A88XMPlus 2202 BIOS makes onboard audio not work. However I connected my headset to my monitor (which is connected to my 270X's HDMI) and the quality is super high compared to the ****ty Realtek chip this board has. Also I didn't notice any stability change as I'm still unable to reach 4.4GHz


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CosmonautLaika*
> 
> By the way, I tried these bios out as well and my internet stopped working -- realtek gigabit LAN didn't like them for some reason. I uninstalled the realtek drivers and reinstalled but no dice. Rolled back to 2102 and internet works again. So I guess I'll hold off--was looking forward to northbridge improvements.


No issue from my side with the Audio nor LAN. But the bios update forced clearing all Bios settings. And Win7 dectected new components for almost all on the mainboard. It "reinstalled" all drivers at first boot
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Is there any change in overclocking overall?


I have the same results for CPU overclocking. But very happy to have the northbridge running at 2000Mhz (didn't try more yet as my memory is only 1600Mhz)


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> I for one im a little toasted with MSI...
> My current board is an MSI 970 Gaming and it is a very lack luster board... Its going back with the FX8320 CPU.
> 
> Im going to try something new this time...
> 
> Why are you saying that? Isn´t the 860k good overclockers?
> 
> With my best Regards,
> 
> LPC


It's a lottery, you can get a nice chip that can get past 4.5GHz easy or a crappy 860K like mine that can't pass 4.3GHz even at 1.5+ V


----------



## Goldn3agle

Or an even crappier one like mine that won't get past stock without locking up at any voltage.








It's all pot luck.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> I for one im a little toasted with MSI...
> My current board is an MSI 970 Gaming and it is a very lack luster board... Its going back with the FX8320 CPU.
> 
> Im going to try something new this time...


Next time, before buying, search overclock.net or ask.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone/10

Whoever is putting blind faith on Nikos mosfets and hopes for some wild performance, is playing a lottery.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Next time, before buying, search overclock.net or ask.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone/10
> 
> Whoever is putting blind faith on Nikos mosfets and hopes for some wild performance, is playing a lottery.


Hi!
I Understand your hate for the Nikos VRM´s, but that was not the cause of my return of the board...
There are other worse problems with this board...

Like USB ports dying in windows, some restarts and shutdowns get stuck and do nothing... Stuttering, driver problems with VIA IC, lack of a proper fan controller on the board...
Incredible small NB Heatsink...

Thin PCB that allow anormal heat to build up on the cpu socket and on the cpu itself...

- https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=254798.0

If it all worked well this board would have been a killer option from MSI... But cutting on corners like they are... this board will need a deep revision to be recomendable...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hi!
> I Understand your hate for the Nikos VRM´s, but that was not the cause of my return of the board...
> There are other worse problems with this board...
> 
> Like USB ports dying in windows, some restarts and shutdowns get stuck and do nothing... Stuttering, driver problems with VIA IC, lack of a proper fan controller on the board...
> Incredible small NB Heatsink...
> 
> Thin PCB that allow anormal heat to build up on the cpu socket and on the cpu itself...
> 
> - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=254798.0
> 
> If it all worked well this board would have been a killer option from MSI... But cutting on corners like they are... this board will need a deep revision to be recomendable...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I see. Well, the abnormal heat at least *is* related to the mosfets! Yes! I hate Nikos with a passion!







I consider the brand a warning for bad things to happen.


----------



## gaster

I have an 860k and Asus A88XM-A board. I just updated to the 2204 bios and it's acting strange. At full load, and stock settings, the voltage hits 1.512V now, which is much higher than before. VID according to core temp is 1.4125 so the bios is adding 0.1 at least.
Because of the strange behavior I have had to manually set things up in the bios. Right now I turned off turbo, cpu is 4.1 Ghz with just 1.368V at load. It can probably go even lower. NB gets detected at 1.1375. I am adding 0.0675 to that and run at 2000 instead of the stock 1800. Cinebench 11.5 is 3.88 like this. I have a Phenom II type heatsink for now since there are no heatsinks for the mosfets. A tower cooler wouldn't run any air over the mosfets like a stock type cooler does so I'm afraid to use one of those on this board.
Not too bad of a result so far considering it's a really cheap board with just 3+2 phase VRM.

Anyway, I just wanted to warn people with Asus boards. It seems several of us have had some funny results with this new bios update, and my board is adding a tenth of a volt and that's a bit scary. Watch out.


----------



## Ketcchup

Just a question, your CPU inestability when OCing is manifestated by blue screen of deaths or total freezes? It's strange to me that when I push the clocks it freezes and I have to reset the pc, but it doesn't make a BSOD


----------



## Goldn3agle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Just a question, your CPU inestability when OCing is manifestated by blue screen of deaths or total freezes? It's strange to me that when I push the clocks it freezes and I have to reset the pc, but it doesn't make a BSOD


What I have personally observed is that all the OC crashes I have experienced with Kaveri have been system lockups/crashes, whereas in my recent OCing with Haswell results in BSODs instead.
I never had any BSODs when trying to overclock Kaveri, just system lockups.


----------



## HeadGear

Same here, only seem to get bsod from memory instability, never from the CPU. Don't know if a bsod is preferable over a freeze, though, or if its just half a dozen of one, 6 of the other.


----------



## AOMG

What's a safe overclock for daily driver? Mixed with a bit of productivity/Gaming.


----------



## drmrlordx

Safe overclock is whatever you can get without reaching an uncomfortable voltage. These aren't Vishera chips, so you aren't going to wipe out board components or overheat your system (usually) on an overclock. What you can do is eat away at your chip more quickly with excessive voltage.

For most people, especially those not on truly excellent cooling, I would recommend 1.45v vcore max for your daily. NB voltage is a bit sketchier, though you'll probably want to be careful about anything above 1.275v. It really depends on how long you want these things to last. The 860k is cheap now and will be even cheaper later, so . . . make of that what you will.

To put things in perspective, you might burn your chip out in ~1 year of operation at 1.5-1.55v vcore, or maybe it'll die sooner (or later). Hard to say. If you want it to last 2-3 years or longer, you can probably get that at 1.45v or lower.

Run it at stock and it will probably outlast your desire to use it for anything.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Safe overclock is whatever you can get without reaching an uncomfortable voltage. These aren't Vishera chips, so you aren't going to wipe out board components or overheat your system (usually) on an overclock. What you can do is eat away at your chip more quickly with excessive voltage.
> 
> For most people, especially those not on truly excellent cooling, I would recommend 1.45v vcore max for your daily. NB voltage is a bit sketchier, though you'll probably want to be careful about anything above 1.275v. It really depends on how long you want these things to last. The 860k is cheap now and will be even cheaper later, so . . . make of that what you will.
> 
> To put things in perspective, you might burn your chip out in ~1 year of operation at 1.5-1.55v vcore, or maybe it'll die sooner (or later). Hard to say. If you want it to last 2-3 years or longer, you can probably get that at 1.45v or lower.
> 
> Run it at stock and it will probably outlast your desire to use it for anything.


It can (mine could) survive for more than a year with 1.55.
I have sold a rig in which the kaveri inside it have been running since launcday with 1.55 and it still runs great, so maybe some chips can and some dont but this one works just fine 15 months in


----------



## drmrlordx

It happens. Some chips last longer with an overvolt than others. A friend of mine had to retire his Celeron300a after maybe 5 years of use since it stopped holding its 450 mhz overclock. He couldn't understand why it was crashing, so I stepped it back to stock vcore and 300 mhz and . . . problem solved. He replaced it shortly since the performance fell off accordingly.

Some of these chips may last darn near forever @ 1.55v vcore, and some won't. Your mileage WILL vary.


----------



## Ketcchup

Finally I'm in the 4.4GHz club!


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Finally I'm in the 4.4GHz club!


I'm not real familiar with HWMonitor, but it looks like a lot of varying multipliers on your cores. Throttling?

That much voltage to hit 4.4 seems off somewhere. I'm inclined to think it's the board more that the cpu
Have you tried upping the NB to 2000MHz? What's your LLC?

I'm able to do 4.5 with 1.4125v and Extreme LLC which increases to about 1.45v under max load. runs cooler than I expected too.


----------



## drmrlordx

Remember, he's using an A88xm-plus, which is not a great OC board (3+2 phase power I think?). For people who are dismissive of the differences that a motherboard can make in FM2+ overclocking, here is an exibit of why some boards are better than others. He probably was getting some throttling.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I'm not real familiar with HWMonitor, but it looks like a lot of varying multipliers on your cores. Throttling?
> 
> That much voltage to hit 4.4 seems off somewhere. I'm inclined to think it's the board more that the cpu
> Have you tried upping the NB to 2000MHz? What's your LLC?
> 
> I'm able to do 4.5 with 1.4125v and Extreme LLC which increases to about 1.45v under max load. runs cooler than I expected too.


- Yes I just realized it, seems this guy had the same issue -> http://www.overclock.net/t/1514009/athlon-860k-any-one-picking-it-up/360#post_23373933

- Upping NB to 2000MHz (even a single MHz) makes my PC to not boot at all, not even the "ok" beep.

- I tried many many many many variables like low voltage and high LLC, high voltage low LLC, a mixture of that... nothing works to reduce my voltage
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Remember, he's using an A88xm-plus, which is not a great OC board (3+2 phase power I think?). For people who are dismissive of the differences that a motherboard can make in FM2+ overclocking, here is an exibit of why some boards are better than others. He probably was getting some throttling.


It's a 4+2 with heatsink, but maybe im forcing it too much


----------



## jsc1973

It's not a bad OC board. Should actually hold its own against any other 4+2 FM2+ board. You might be able to hit 4.5 at that voltage on one of the 6+2 boards, but 4.4 at 1.5v is fairly common on an 860K. I think Kaveri is very sensitive, moreso than Piledriver cores, to any vdroop or fluctuation of any kind, even if it's tiny. So the extra power phases make a difference, even if a 4+2 can deliver the needed voltage.

Hitting 4.5 at 1.45 is actually a pretty good performance on Kaveri, but that's on a 7850K, which is probably a little better silicon (860's are 7850's with bum GPU sections), and on a 6+2 Gigabyte board. I've never worked with a UP4, but Giga can make a good OC board as well as ASUS can, so I would think it's comparable to a Pro or Ranger.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Finally I'm in the 4.4GHz club!


Wow, big time throttling right there. If no throttling it should say 4.4 on all cores when under load, sorry buddy :-(


----------



## Goldn3agle

I've been thinking about selling my 860K, I've not decided yet though, how much do you think it would be worth if I sold it with my Extreme 6+ as a CPU & motherboard combo?


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It's not a bad OC board. Should actually hold its own against any other 4+2 FM2+ board. You might be able to hit 4.5 at that voltage on one of the 6+2 boards, but 4.4 at 1.5v is fairly common on an 860K. I think Kaveri is very sensitive, moreso than Piledriver cores, to any vdroop or fluctuation of any kind, even if it's tiny. So the extra power phases make a difference, even if a 4+2 can deliver the needed voltage.
> 
> Hitting 4.5 at 1.45 is actually a pretty good performance on Kaveri, but that's on a 7850K, which is probably a little better silicon (860's are 7850's with bum GPU sections), and on a 6+2 Gigabyte board. I've never worked with a UP4, but Giga can make a good OC board as well as ASUS can, so I would think it's comparable to a Pro or Ranger.


How did you get rid of the 3.5GHz throttling? As you suddenly appeared after I linked your old post :^) (I suppose you have now 4.5GHz and not 4GHz as you mention)

edit: throttling only appears when using IntelBurnTest, even P95 doesn't make it. What's going on?


----------



## syl1979

In my case I see throttling when thermal margin would go below 5deg celcius
I use coretemp to get the number (amd overbride crashing on my board)

For the voltage, I have seen two 860K. The first had a cpuid reference voltage of 1.31V, the second of 1.41v !


----------



## LPCobris

Guys!
I need an advice...

After reading this great thread with lots of good information i jumped on this AMD Platform...

I have purchased an:

MSI A88X-GD45 Gaming
AMD Athlon X4 860k

I have yet to recieve the products, but my question is about the memories...
What is a good budget kit for this build?

Its better 8gb or 16gb atm? 2x or 4x dimm?
And what about speed? Its better 1600mhz? or 2400mhz?

Thanks in advance, but i don´t really know this platform FM2+.

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> How did you get rid of the 3.5GHz throttling? As you suddenly appeared after I linked your old post :^) (I suppose you have now 4.5GHz and not 4GHz as you mention)
> 
> edit: throttling only appears when using IntelBurnTest, even P95 doesn't make it. What's going on?


I set the vcore at 1.525v in manual mode and turned CPB off in the BIOS. Simple as that. No throttling since.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Guys!
> I need an advice...
> 
> After reading this great thread with lots of good information i jumped on this AMD Platform...
> 
> I have purchased an:
> 
> MSI A88X-GD45 Gaming
> AMD Athlon X4 860k
> 
> I have yet to recieve the products, but my question is about the memories...
> What is a good budget kit for this build?
> 
> Its better 8gb or 16gb atm? 2x or 4x dimm?
> And what about speed? Its better 1600mhz? or 2400mhz?
> 
> Thanks in advance, but i don´t really know this platform FM2+.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Get some 2400 cl10


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Get some 2400 cl10


Any recomendation to the brand?

Maybe some Trident X?
Or some cheaper?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Any recomendation to the brand?
> 
> Maybe some Trident X?
> Or some cheaper?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I think these are the best ones that your mobo supports:

http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-with-corsair-link-connector-1-65v-8-gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmd8gx3m2b2133c9


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I think these are the best ones that your mobo supports:
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-platinum-with-corsair-link-connector-1-65v-8-gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmd8gx3m2b2133c9


Thanks...
I will look into it...

8 or 16gb?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## LPCobris

Im algo thinking about these:

- http://www.amazon.es/Corsair-Vengeance-Pro-Memoria-DDR3/dp/B00D5X8XT4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0B0Q09KKJE5RAN7VB5AD

or

- http://www.amazon.es/Corsair-Vengeance-Pro-Memoria-*****/dp/B00D6E5KMA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=08D11XHZJYQGD40XNDXV

Its CL important to this platform?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Ketcchup

I think 2133 CL9 is super overkill for a 860K, if it were an APU well maybe, but for this CPU is not worth at all. Even more as I just installed some old 4GB ram @ 1333Mhz and lost dual channel to have 12GB RAM, and I noticed no diference at all in system performance and gaming, just less score in Passmark

PS: PCComponentes is an spanish store which sends delivery to Portugal and is cheaper than Amazon, if you want cheaper RAM.

http://www.pccomponentes.com/g_skill_sniper_ddr3_1866_pc3_14900_16gb_2x8gb_cl9.html


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> I think 2133 CL9 is super overkill for a 860K, if it were an APU well maybe, but for this CPU is not worth at all.
> 
> PS: PCComponentes is an spanish store which sends delivery to Portugal and is cheaper than Amazon, if you want cheaper RAM.
> 
> http://www.pccomponentes.com/g_skill_sniper_ddr3_1866_pc3_14900_16gb_2x8gb_cl9.html


Depends, the 860K performs better in games when running 2400MHz compared to 1866MHz and 2133MHz even though there is no IGP and you use a Discrete GPU. 5-10+ FPS depending on the game will be worth it to some people. So high frequency + low latency is even better I guess.


----------



## LPCobris

I think im going with these ones...

- http://www.amazon.es/G-Skill-F3-2400C10D-16GTX-memoria-240-pines-DDR3-RAM/dp/B007V9PZFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1429636078&sr=1-2&keywords=ddr3+2400

Cheaper and they are red/black scheme...

CL10 2400mhz look well to me...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> I think 2133 CL9 is super overkill for a 860K, if it were an APU well maybe, but for this CPU is not worth at all. Even more as I just installed some old 4GB ram @ 1333Mhz and lost dual channel to have 12GB RAM, and I noticed no diference at all in system performance and gaming, just less score in Passmark
> 
> PS: PCComponentes is an spanish store which sends delivery to Portugal and is cheaper than Amazon, if you want cheaper RAM.
> 
> http://www.pccomponentes.com/g_skill_sniper_ddr3_1866_pc3_14900_16gb_2x8gb_cl9.html


Hi ketchup...

I usually buy from: PCComponentes, XtremeMedia and Amazon...

Cheaper and VAT free (im a company).

But im looking also for the future... next gen apus and athlons....

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Papadope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> Depends, the 860K performs better in games when running 2400MHz compared to 1866MHz and 2133MHz even though there is no IGP and you use a Discrete GPU. 5-10+ FPS depending on the game will be worth it to some people. So high frequency + low latency is even better I guess.


Really? First I have heard of this. Do you have any benchmark examples?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadope*
> 
> Really? First I have heard of this. Do you have any benchmark examples?


If you look back through this thread you'll see that I mentioned this earlier on and some other members discussed about this. Just look up an 860K Benchmark/Review by Overclock3D on the web and that's what they basically say and show. Additionally I did get better FPS in games like DA:I which I played mostly when I used the 860K paired with a HD7850. I think some other members seen improvements also as far as gaming plus the small improvements in benchmarks that don't really show in real world situations.

Here's the link so you don't have to search. It's not a direct link to the page where they state higher RAM speed provided better performance but it is in that review/benchmark.
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_athlon_860k_black_edition_cpu_review/1


----------



## Papadope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> If you look back through this thread you'll see that I mentioned this earlier on and some other members discussed about this. Just look up an 860K Benchmark/Review by Overclock3D on the web and that's what they basically say and show. Additionally I did get better FPS in games like DA:I which I played mostly when I used the 860K paired with a HD7850. I think some other members seen improvements also as far as gaming plus the small improvements in benchmarks that don't really show in real world situations.
> 
> Here's the link so you don't have to search. It's not a direct link to the page where they state higher RAM speed provided better performance but it is in that review/benchmark.
> http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_athlon_860k_black_edition_cpu_review/1


Interesting, it shows the IMC on Steamroller does benefit a little from faster memory. With Piledriver it doesn't make a difference past 1600mhz.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadope*
> 
> Interesting, it shows the IMC on Steamroller does benefit a little from faster memory. With Piledriver it doesn't make a difference past 1600mhz.


Yeah, that one thing I was very interested in about the 860K. Though I wonder if the difference in faster memory would show with L3 cache available. One reason I was hoping for a Steamroller FX 6/8 Core. The benefit of faster memory is something I hope the next AMD architecture will continue to have or improved.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadope*
> 
> Interesting, it shows the IMC on Steamroller does benefit a little from faster memory. With Piledriver it doesn't make a difference past 1600mhz.


Thses are my best clocks with 760K and 860K. While both of them crush FX Piledrivers, the 860K seems to suffer from poor NB clocks and resulting latency.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Thanks...
> I will look into it...
> 
> 8 or 16gb?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Go for 16, 2x8gb


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Go for 16, 2x8gb


Hello!
yep i did just that...

What do you think about this memories?

- http://www.amazon.es/dp/B007V9PZFI/ref=pe_386191_41384461_TE_item

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> yep i did just that...
> 
> What do you think about this memories?
> 
> - http://www.amazon.es/dp/B007V9PZFI/ref=pe_386191_41384461_TE_item
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I dont see them as supported:

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88X-G45-GAMING.html#support-ocmem

I know that they are for the Asrock killer and Asus Gaming boards, but dont see them on the list for the MSI :-(


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xKrNMBoYx*
> 
> If you look back through this thread you'll see that I mentioned this earlier on and some other members discussed about this. Just look up an 860K Benchmark/Review by Overclock3D on the web and that's what they basically say and show. Additionally I did get better FPS in games like DA:I which I played mostly when I used the 860K paired with a HD7850. I think some other members seen improvements also as far as gaming plus the small improvements in benchmarks that don't really show in real world situations.
> 
> Here's the link so you don't have to search. It's not a direct link to the page where they state higher RAM speed provided better performance but it is in that review/benchmark.
> http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_athlon_860k_black_edition_cpu_review/1


I can attest to this ^ as well when I threw a 290 with my 7650k and overclocked the ram. Slightly better mins fp. Up to 5min fps I think in some scenarios from 1600-2400mhz even with really loose timings.


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> I can attest to this ^ as well when I threw a 290 with my 7650k and overclocked the ram. Slightly better mins fp. Up to 5min fps I think in some scenarios from 1600-2400mhz even with really loose timings.


Awesome glad to see that another user had a similar experience.


----------



## 7850K

I remember reading in this thread about faster RAM making more of a difference on these chips

Also, can't remember if this was posted in this thread already
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?50640-Kaveri-and-APUNB-scaling-%28Crossblade-Ranger-tested%29

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*


so envious of those RAM timings. For some reason I could never get 2400MHz stable even on factory timings 10-12-12-31


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadope*
> 
> Interesting, it shows the IMC on Steamroller does benefit a little from faster memory. With Piledriver it doesn't make a difference past 1600mhz.


It makes sense. The Kaveri IMC is radically different from previous memory controllers in AMD processors. AMD was very serious about maximizing overall potential bandwidth using commercially-available memory products (DDR3, and I suppose GDDR5, though GDDR5 support was canned). As result, its behavior is not quite the same as that of the IMCs in Vishera or Richland (for example).

Only Kaveri wants dual-rank DIMMs, for example.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> It makes sense. The Kaveri IMC is radically different from previous memory controllers in AMD processors. AMD was very serious about maximizing overall potential bandwidth using commercially-available memory products (DDR3, and I suppose GDDR5, though GDDR5 support was canned). As result, its behavior is not quite the same as that of the IMCs in Vishera or Richland (for example).
> 
> Only Kaveri wants dual-rank DIMMs, for example.


AMD designed the Steamroller core from the ground-up to be more friendly to use in laptops; hence the focus on improving memory thoroughput, IPC at the expense of high clocks, low leakage and reduced TDP, and the 28nm bulk process it was made on. Most Steamroller chips have ended up in desktops anyway, but it was designed as a mobile-friendly chip. AMD is doubling down on winning mobile design deals with Carrizo, and, I suspect, making the upcoming Kaveri Refresh as desktop-friendly as they can given the original tenets of its design.


----------



## Horsemama1956

It's not designed from the ground up when it's just a tweaked Bulldozer core.


----------



## Ketcchup

I can't belive the 2400MHz thing, it's the first time I see more than 1fps difference in RAM, so interesting.

BTW, just overclocked my HyperX savage from 1600MHz CL9 to 2400MHz CL11 so easily, just following the Kingston specs of the 2400MHz kit with the same color. This explains why all the brands have the same price for different freqs

I'm gonna check how is the FPS gain in GTAV

EDIT: holy ****, there's no difference at all when running, but when you are in a car going super fast in the street my fps improved from 28-30fps to 35-38 ***


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> It's not designed from the ground up when it's just a tweaked Bulldozer core.


Whatever. Love it when people play the semantics game on here.

Just off the top of my head, AMD increased the transistor count, improved both the per-clock ALU and FPU performance, switched the production line from 32nm SOI and 28nm bulk, improved the memory controller, used a new generation of GPU core in the APU line based on the new core, and otherwise optimized the chip for mobile usage patterns and power consumption. And that's just compared to a Piledriver core.

Compared to a Bulldozer core, it has many other differences, to the point where very little other than the basic microarchitecture is the same. Bulldozer was designed first and foremost as a server chip and optimized for server workloads.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> AMD designed the Steamroller core from the ground-up to be more friendly to use in laptops;


Well, really, it was the Kaveri incarnation that was so designed. Somewhere on paper is a version of Steamroller for a successor socket to AM3+ that never happened with 4 modules, L3 cache, and a memory controller that is tuned differently than the one in Kaveri. Or so I estimate anyway. We'll never see it in production, so . . . the difference is academic. Steamroller is Kaveri and will only ever be Kaveri.
Quote:


> making the upcoming Kaveri Refresh as desktop-friendly as they can given the original tenets of its design.


I certainly hope so.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> I can't belive the 2400MHz thing, it's the first time I see more than 1fps difference in RAM, so interesting.


If you think your GTA V results were big, you ought to see what happens in synthetics. The difference can be night and day.


----------



## kxnxng

I did not know this, i always thought above 1600Mhz wouldnt make any difference... wouldve bought faster memory had i known this.
Lets hope my GSkill 1600 overclocks good, 5FPS gain in GTA V would be pretty nice actually :x


----------



## Ketcchup

Check the 2400 cl11 model and copy voltage and latencys


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Check the 2400 cl11 model and copy voltage and latencys


Did that but it wont go above 2133 sadly, still thanks for the tip, gonna play with it around later and try again, and run some benchmarks too see if i get a performance increase.


----------



## drmrlordx

Try raising your secondaries to the max allowable and bump your CAS to 12 (and raise the other primaries a touch over the CAS11 settings) to see what happens. You might be able to get DDR3-2400.

edit: If you have an 860k then bagging on timings is probably not going to help you so much. If you see what ketcchup did above, he went from DDR3-1600 CAS9 to DDR3-2400 CAS11, typically a step up in memory speed of 266 mhz brings with it one step up in CAS on DDR3.

He made 3 steps up in memory speed (1600->1866->2133->2400) but only stepped up his CAS by 2. DDR3-2400 CAS11 is usually about the same as DDR3-1600 CAS8, give or take. The DDR3-2400 option might be a little better on the CPU portion of Kaveri, but I haven't tested for that. Might be worth it to do so sometime.

I should also compare DDR3-1600 CAS7 to DDR3-2400 CAS10. I was hoping DDR3-1600 CAS6 would work on this machine, but to no avail. It took my Pi Blacks to get that.


----------



## Darklyric

^ this and you could also try something like [email protected] 13-13-14-42 and up the voltage a little bit. Sometimes I cant get kits to run without the second timing stupid high like 10-14-10-34 ect as well. Just gota play around a lot and be ready to clear cmos


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Whatever. Love it when people play the semantics game on here.
> 
> Just off the top of my head, AMD increased the transistor count, improved both the per-clock ALU and FPU performance, switched the production line from 32nm SOI and 28nm bulk, improved the memory controller, used a new generation of GPU core in the APU line based on the new core, and otherwise optimized the chip for mobile usage patterns and power consumption. And that's just compared to a Piledriver core.
> 
> Compared to a Bulldozer core, it has many other differences, to the point where very little other than the basic microarchitecture is the same. Bulldozer was designed first and foremost as a server chip and optimized for server workloads.


Won't change the fact it's going to be super mediocre, unless only compared to AMD. There's a reason they are abandoning this arch.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Won't change the fact it's going to be super mediocre, unless only compared to AMD. There's a reason they are abandoning this arch.


I don't know how you can say that a cpu such as the 860K is mediocre? It costs what, $80? For that price it is a steal. That is about a third of the price of an unlocked i5.


----------



## drmrlordx

They aren't abandoning Kaveri/Steamroller at all. Kaveri round two launches in June (probably) alongside Carrizo in mobile space and the 300-series Radeons. We get another full year of Steamroller on the desktop! Hellz yeah!

. . .

*cough*

Seriously, I like my little 7700k, and if the Kaveri refresh CPUs have significantly better headroom, I might try another delid/relid operation and shoot for 5 ghz on the cheap, you know, just for fun. But 2015 is going to be limp mode for AMD on the desktop.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Seriously, I like my little 7700k, and if the Kaveri refresh CPUs have significantly better headroom, I might try another *delid/relid operation* and shoot for 5 ghz on the cheap, you know, just for fun. But 2015 is going to be limp mode for AMD on the desktop.


You can delid these chips? This is news to me. How about the 7850K? I might be inclined to delid mine...never done it before but heck, why not?


----------



## xKrNMBoYx

I believe all the Kaveri chips can be delidded as they aren't soldered to the IHS I believe.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> ^ this and you could also try something like [email protected] 13-13-14-42 and up the voltage a little bit. Sometimes I cant get kits to run without the second timing stupid high like 10-14-10-34 ect as well. Just gota play around a lot and be ready to clear cmos


Thanks guys

Currently got it working @ 12-14-12-34 2400 w/ 1.6V









And guess what i needed to do? clear the cmos yup







i think u jinxed me tho


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Currently got it working @ 12-14-12-34 2400 w/ 1.6V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what i needed to do? clear the cmos yup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think u jinxed me tho


I'll have to try that myself
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Won't change the fact it's going to be super mediocre, unless only compared to AMD. There's a reason they are abandoning this arch.


your _contributions_ to this thread have been little more than trolls


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> Currently got it working @ 12-14-12-34 2400 w/ 1.6V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what i needed to do? clear the cmos yup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think u jinxed me tho












Not bad for only 1.6v. Can your rams handle more than that? If so I'd shoot for a small fsb OC and see what happens.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> You can delid these chips? This is news to me. How about the 7850K? I might be inclined to delid mine...never done it before but heck, why not?


You can. All APUs going back to Llano have been TIM jobs. No solder. Be careful, it ain't easy, and there are some doodads under the IHS you can nick if you let your blade go past the black epoxy binding that holds it down. You could also try the vice method . . . I just used an Xacto with #11 blades.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> Currently got it working @ 12-14-12-34 2400 w/ 1.6V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what i needed to do? clear the cmos yup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think u jinxed me tho


Not bad, not bad. Try benchmarking it at the new and old settings in something like SuperPi to see how the new settings affect your scores. Take a look at 1M and 32M and see how they go.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> You can. All APUs going back to Llano have been TIM jobs. No solder. Be careful, it ain't easy, and there are some doodads under the IHS you can nick if you let your blade go past the black epoxy binding that holds it down. You could also try the vice method . . . I just used an Xacto with #11 blades.
> Not bad, not bad. Try benchmarking it at the new and old settings in something like SuperPi to see how the new settings affect your scores. Take a look at 1M and 32M and see how they go.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not bad for only 1.6v. Can your rams handle more than that? If so I'd shoot for a small fsb OC and see what happens.


I havent found the fsb option yet its called APU frequency on my board, but after playing around some more (and resetting the battery a few times







) i currently got these timings :

2400 @ 10-14-12-28 1.65V

I have to work today so i dont have time anymore to do more testing, but the 32M finished fine too at these timings, this weekend im gonna do some more "proper" benchmarks with 32M and GTA V's built in benchmark tool, too see if there's an actual noticeable difference between 2400 and 1600.

For now these are my results with 1M tests.




Again thanks for the help guys.


----------



## LPCobris

Guys...
Im having a problem that i don´t know if it is CPU related or Board related...

I have today recieved the new memories...

The Gskill Trident X 2x8GB 2400mhz 1.65v 10-12-12-31.

So in total is 16gb of ram.

I putted on the board powered up... System recognized memory alterations and ask me to go to bios.
So far so good...

I went on bios an choosed the XMP on the board that correctly detected the timmings and voltage.
Saved and reseted.

I then entered again in bios and started to notice that only 8GB of my 16GB are visible to the system...
The board detect BOTH dimms, and even in board explorer they are marked on the slots, but i don´t understand where is the rest of the memory...

The board is an MSI A88X-G45 Gaming and im using the last bios 1.5.

I went to windows, and in CPU-ID it detects the 16gb of memory, but on task manager it says i only have 8gb available...
I can´t make any sense of this contraditory information...

Can anyone help me????

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## mohit9206

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Thanks...
> I will look into it...
> 
> 8 or 16gb?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC
> 
> 
> 
> Go for 16, 2x8gb
Click to expand...

2GB is sufficient for gaming.
















http://www.legitreviews.com/game-testing-2gb-versus-4gb-of-memory-on-vista-64-bit_709/3


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> 2GB is sufficient for gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/game-testing-2gb-versus-4gb-of-memory-on-vista-64-bit_709/3


What that got to do with anything?

Do you know how old are that article?
Right...

8GB is bare minimum today, 16GB is for 2015 and 2016 titles...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> 2GB is sufficient for gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/game-testing-2gb-versus-4gb-of-memory-on-vista-64-bit_709/3


Are you serious??? Did you even look at the date on that article? Did the fact the headline said "Vista" ring a bell even if you missed the date, which is *May 12, 2008*?

They ran that test on an OS that's been replaced twice, on a CPU that's five generations old and a GPU that's about seven generations old, with games that were popular seven years ago. It has absolutely zero relevance to gaming in 2015.

You can barely play _anything_ on 4GB of RAM today, and 8 is where you need to be at. If you get 16, so much the better; there are several modern games that can benefit from it.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Guys...
> Im having a problem that i don´t know if it is CPU related or Board related...
> 
> I have today recieved the new memories...
> 
> The Gskill Trident X 2x8GB 2400mhz 1.65v 10-12-12-31.
> 
> So in total is 16gb of ram.
> 
> I putted on the board powered up... System recognized memory alterations and ask me to go to bios.
> So far so good...
> 
> I went on bios an choosed the XMP on the board that correctly detected the timmings and voltage.
> Saved and reseted.
> 
> I then entered again in bios and started to notice that only 8GB of my 16GB are visible to the system...
> The board detect BOTH dimms, and even in board explorer they are marked on the slots, but i don´t understand where is the rest of the memory...
> 
> The board is an MSI A88X-G45 Gaming and im using the last bios 1.5.
> 
> I went to windows, and in CPU-ID it detects the 16gb of memory, but on task manager it says i only have 8gb available...
> I can´t make any sense of this contraditory information...
> 
> Can anyone help me????
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


What slots are the ram sticks in? I have mine in slots 2 and 4 (slot 1 being closest to the cpu, 4 being farthest.) and it is fine.


----------



## mohit9206

Sorry it was a joke. 8gb ram is required for gaming i agree but 16gb is certainly overkill for gaming.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> You can. All APUs going back to Llano have been TIM jobs. No solder. Be careful, it ain't easy, and there are some doodads under the IHS you can nick if you let your blade go past the black epoxy binding that holds it down. You could also try the vice method . . . I just used an Xacto with #11 blades.


Is there anything i need to pay attention to regarding cost height adjustment after the delid? Or maybe push me attention to the pressure on the cpu?


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> What slots are the ram sticks in? I have mine in slots 2 and 4 (slot 1 being closest to the cpu, 4 being farthest.) and it is fine.


Hello!
I have it on the recomended slots (2 and 4).
Check pictures bellow:







Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> I have it on the recomended slots (2 and 4).
> Check pictures bellow:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


You could try it in different slots I guess. Are they seated all the way?

Does the BIOS recognize all 16 gigs? Not the board explorer, does the BIOS register 16 gigs in the upper right hand corner of the screen?
Before you changed the XMP profile of the ram, did the BIOS recognize all 16?

I myself have not updated to BIOS 1.5, I think I am still on 1.4, and we have the same ram set, so there could be a problem with the BIOS.

Edit: I could be wrong on the ram slots, tbh I cannot remember what slots my ram is in. I do think it is 2 and 4. You could try 3 and 4 if you want. I'll check tbe manual when i get a minute at work here.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello!
Well thanks for your interest and reply´s...

Responding...
I have allready done some clear cmos to no avail...

Also this is a KIT of 2. Its paired and its fully functional dimms (i have tested them solo).





This is the memory kit i have purchased...
The board DON´t register on top the memory, just in Windows!

Before and After aplying the XMP nothing did change... still only shows 8GB.

Now i have some photos i have taken from the POST and inside of the BIOS.
There is a lot of information so bear with me on this please:



























After a enter windows i run some aplications to show what i get here...



So.... whats going on here....

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> Well thanks for your interest and reply´s...
> 
> Responding...
> I have allready done some clear cmos to no avail...
> 
> Also this is a KIT of 2. Its paired and its fully functional dimms (i have tested them solo).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Images!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the memory kit i have purchased...
> The board DON´t register on top the memory, just in Windows!
> 
> Before and After aplying the XMP nothing did change... still only shows 8GB.
> 
> Now i have some photos i have taken from the POST and inside of the BIOS.
> There is a lot of information so bear with me on this please:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a enter windows i run some aplications to show what i get here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So.... whats going on here....
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Well, I'm not sure. maybe you could try putting the ram in slots 1 and 3? possible malfunction of slot 4 on the motherboard?

Are both sticks fully seated in their slots?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> I havent found the fsb option yet its called APU frequency on my board, but after playing around some more (and resetting the battery a few times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) i currently got these timings :
> 
> 2400 @ 10-14-12-28 1.65V


Alriiiiight, DDR3-2400 CAS10 is pretty good. That's what I'm running, though mine is 10-12-13-32 @ 1.7v
Quote:


> I have to work today so i dont have time anymore to do more testing, but the 32M finished fine too at these timings, this weekend im gonna do some more "proper" benchmarks with 32M and GTA V's built in benchmark tool, too see if there's an actual noticeable difference between 2400 and 1600.
> 
> For now these are my results with 1M tests.


In all fairness to your DDR3-1600 times, you should be running tighter timings than CAS 11! If your memory can do DDR3-2400 CAS10, it should also be able to do DDR3-1600 CAS7 or 8. Give it a try.

Regardless, looks like you picked up half a second on 1M which is notable. 1M is more cache-bound though. You should see much bigger improvement on 32M .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> Is there anything i need to pay attention to regarding cost height adjustment after the delid? Or maybe push me attention to the pressure on the cpu?


Well bear in mind, I did a relid, so the height adjustment before & after was minimal. I left the black epoxy residue on the PCB so that it would hold the IHS in place when I installed the HSF. I did lap the IHS, mind you, so it lost a few microns of height that way too.

But the retension mechanism on the Noctua nh-d14 I'm using didn't have any problems torquing itself down onto the slightly-lowered IHS.

If you are going to run bare-die, then you are going to have to rework most retension mechanisms to assure proper contact with the die without causing damage. I am told the nh-d14 can't go that farm down (the white stand-offs prevent it).


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> 2GB is sufficient for gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/game-testing-2gb-versus-4gb-of-memory-on-vista-64-bit_709/3


You can't even browse the web with two gigs of ram. Your hard drive will thrash like crazy with all the paging going on.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Are you serious??? Did you even look at the date on that article? Did the fact the headline said "Vista" ring a bell even if you missed the date, which is *May 12, 2008*?
> 
> They ran that test on an OS that's been replaced twice, on a CPU that's five generations old and a GPU that's about seven generations old, with games that were popular seven years ago. It has absolutely zero relevance to gaming in 2015.
> 
> You can barely play _anything_ on 4GB of RAM today, and 8 is where you need to be at. If you get 16, so much the better; there are several modern games that can benefit from it.


Yeah, 2008 called and it wants its two gigs of ram and OS back. Lol!


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> Well thanks for your interest and reply´s...
> 
> Responding...
> I have allready done some clear cmos to no avail...
> 
> Also this is a KIT of 2. Its paired and its fully functional dimms (i have tested them solo).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the memory kit i have purchased...
> The board DON´t register on top the memory, just in Windows!
> 
> Before and After aplying the XMP nothing did change... still only shows 8GB.
> 
> Now i have some photos i have taken from the POST and inside of the BIOS.
> There is a lot of information so bear with me on this please:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a enter windows i run some aplications to show what i get here...
> 
> 
> 
> So.... whats going on here....
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> Well thanks for your interest and reply´s...
> 
> Responding...
> I have allready done some clear cmos to no avail...
> 
> Also this is a KIT of 2. Its paired and its fully functional dimms (i have tested them solo).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the memory kit i have purchased...
> The board DON´t register on top the memory, just in Windows!
> 
> Before and After aplying the XMP nothing did change... still only shows 8GB.
> 
> Now i have some photos i have taken from the POST and inside of the BIOS.
> There is a lot of information so bear with me on this please:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a enter windows i run some aplications to show what i get here...
> 
> 
> 
> So.... whats going on here....
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


If CPU-ID is showing the full 16 gigabytes of ram I wouldn't worry. IIRC my Sabertooth R2 and my Crossblade Ranger do the same thing.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello!

But if you see the task manager, you will see that 8GB is hardware reserved...
So in practice i can only use 8GB of memory... where are the other ones?

I have tested all combinations on the slots and i can only get showing 8GB on the bios...

Even if it detects both dimms...

Im not understanding this...

I have just checked system on windows and it says...

16GB but 7.94gb usable!

This is so strange....

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> If CPU-ID is showing the full 16 gigabytes of ram I wouldn't worry. IIRC my Sabertooth R2 and my Crossblade Ranger do the same thing.


His task manager isn't showing all of the ram as available. Windows cannot use it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> 
> But if you see the task manager, you will see that 8GB is hardware reserved...
> So in practice i can only use 8GB of memory... where are the other ones?
> 
> I have tested all combinations on the slots and i can only get showing 8GB on the bios...
> 
> Even if it detects both dimms...
> 
> Im not understanding this...
> 
> I have just checked system on windows and it says...
> 
> 16GB but 7.94gb usable!
> 
> This is so strange....
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Have you ever changed settings in msconfig? Is this a fresh install of windows?

Edit: I see we have the same color scheme for our rigs, aside from the fact that I'm not done so I do not have all the white in there. Actually, there is not, because my cables will probably be sleeved white. lol.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> His task manager isn't showing all of the ram as available. Windows cannot use it.
> Have you ever changed settings in msconfig? Is this a fresh install of windows?
> 
> Edit: I see we have the same color scheme for our rigs, aside from the fact that I'm not done so I do not have all the white in there. Actually, there is not, because my cables will probably be sleeved white. lol.


I Have not changed nothing on windows.

This is not a fresh Install, before this system was a another 970 system also from MSI...

Was a 970 Chipset + FX8320 and 8GB of memory (4 dimms of 2gb).

With my best regards,

LPC


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> I Have not changed nothing on windows.
> 
> This is not a fresh Install, before this system was a another 970 system also from MSI...
> 
> Was a 970 Chipset + FX8320 and 8GB of memory (4 dimms of 2gb).
> 
> With my best regards,
> 
> LPC


Ah, that could very well be your issue right there.

you have 2 options:

1. Reinstall everything, windows included. This is by far what you should do, hands down. Get all of your motherboard drivers etc, pop them on a flash drive, wipe, install.

2. Manually uninstall all drivers, and install the other ones for your current chipset and such.

you really should do a full clean install of windows though.. I'm not guaranteeing that this is the issue, or the fix for it, but it could be.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello...

Yep that is what im going to do if nothing more works....
But that don´t explain why i can´t see my full memory on the bios!

This is a first for me...

Its like that is no dual channel or even a second dimm plugged...

I will try with my old ddr3 1600mhz dimms that i have here (2g dimms...)

Im last resort i will send the memory back and try some other brand or less memory or something...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Yep that is what im going to do if nothing more works....
> But that don´t explain why i can´t see my full memory on the bios!
> 
> This is a first for me...
> 
> Its like that is no dual channel or even a second dimm plugged...
> 
> I will try with my old ddr3 1600mhz dimms that i have here (2g dimms...)
> 
> Im last resort i will send the memory back and try some other brand or less memory or something...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Strange things can happen, not sure what else it could be other than what I mentioned with msconfig earlier, but you had said you didn't mess with it. I'll make you a quick write up in a few minutes, at this point it would be worth a look anyhow.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Yep that is what im going to do if nothing more works....
> But that don´t explain why i can´t see my full memory on the bios!
> 
> This is a first for me...
> 
> Its like that is no dual channel or even a second dimm plugged...
> 
> I will try with my old ddr3 1600mhz dimms that i have here (2g dimms...)
> 
> Im last resort i will send the memory back and try some other brand or less memory or something...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Ok, you can give this a shot. I know you said you didn't mess with anything, but since you are "missing" ramin windows...why not right?

I don't know how much you know, so forgive me for spelling it all out if you know this already.


Spoiler: Instructions



Ok, windows key+r to bring up the run prompt. Type msconfig and press enter.


Which brings you to this. Click the boot tab.


Here, you want to click the advanced options button


Here you want to make sure that the maximum memory box is unchecked. For future reference, the number of processors does the same with CPU cores.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> Strange things can happen


No kidding, especially when tinkering with hardware. I just reset my cmos to test some things. Suddenly no bootable device found. Restart, boots to system repair says it found corrupt files. Reset cmos again, wait 30min. Boots up like nothing happened...


----------



## maddangerous

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> No kidding, especially when tinkering with hardware. I just reset my cmos to test some things. Suddenly no bootable device found. Restart, boots to system repair says it found corrupt files. Reset cmos again, wait 30min. Boots up like nothing happened...


Haha yes indeed, strange things. Glad it came back to you though.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> Ok, you can give this a shot. I know you said you didn't mess with anything, but since you are "missing" ramin windows...why not right?
> 
> I don't know how much you know, so forgive me for spelling it all out if you know this already.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Instructions
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, windows key+r to bring up the run prompt. Type msconfig and press enter.
> 
> 
> Which brings you to this. Click the boot tab.
> 
> 
> Here, you want to click the advanced options button
> 
> 
> Here you want to make sure that the maximum memory box is unchecked. For future reference, the number of processors does the same with CPU cores.


Hello!
thanks for the explanation!

Done all the steps you told me, and there was no box with the mark... everything was like it was supose to be...
So i belive its not a Windows Problem...

Im scratching my head because i believe this is simply some addressing problem on the bios and some update might fix this...
No idea on what more to do...

With my best regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Sorry it was a joke. 8gb ram is required for gaming i agree but 16gb is certainly overkill for gaming.


I'm glad it was a joke. I wasn't trying to bite your head off earlier, but there are noobs who drop in on here and might not know better, especially if they didn't click on the link and see the date on that article.

Some people just don't know any better. There was a guy on here the other day who didn't want to pay more for a 3.3 GHz i5 than he was willing to pay for a 3.9 GHz FX, because of the difference in clock speed. At least he listened to reason, though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> You can't even browse the web with two gigs of ram. Your hard drive will thrash like crazy with all the paging going on.


No kidding. One of the two RAM sticks in my laptop died back in January and I had to RMA it back to Crucial, which left me stuck on 2GB for a few days. It was a chore just to go online, and that was running Linux. I'd hate to think how much fail it would have been if I was running Windows. Four gigs is pretty much a must these days for anything.


----------



## drmrlordx

For people who were wondering how memory speed vs timings might affect an 860k (or the CPU portion of any Kaveri chip):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/100_100#post_23834970

I finally got around to that testing I said I should do, and the results are pretty conclusive: dropping CL/CAS by 1 is about the same as 266 mhz effective increase in memory speed. DDR3-1600 CAS 7 = DDR3-2400 CAS10. And 1T vs. 2T is not a big deal either. It might be worth it to test other apps to see if there are similar results, but for me, I think that's enough data to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> For people who were wondering how memory speed vs timings might affect an 860k (or the CPU portion of any Kaveri chip):
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/100_100#post_23834970
> 
> I finally got around to that testing I said I should do, and the results are pretty conclusive: dropping CL/CAS by 1 is about the same as 266 mhz effective increase in memory speed. DDR3-1600 CAS 7 = DDR3-2400 CAS10. And 1T vs. 2T is not a big deal either. It might be worth it to test other apps to see if there are similar results, but for me, I think that's enough data to satisfy my curiosity.


+

So in this case what is best?

More Frequency or lower latency?

What is better to get?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> For people who were wondering how memory speed vs timings might affect an 860k (or the CPU portion of any Kaveri chip):
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/100_100#post_23834970
> 
> I finally got around to that testing I said I should do, and the results are pretty conclusive: dropping CL/CAS by 1 is about the same as 266 mhz effective increase in memory speed. DDR3-1600 CAS 7 = DDR3-2400 CAS10. And 1T vs. 2T is not a big deal either. It might be worth it to test other apps to see if there are similar results, but for me, I think that's enough data to satisfy my curiosity.


I used max mem and saw a huge difference in read, writes, and copy but just a tiny fall off in latency going from 1600 tight timings to 2400 loose timings.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> For people who were wondering how memory speed vs timings might affect an 860k (or the CPU portion of any Kaveri chip):
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress/100_100#post_23834970
> 
> I finally got around to that testing I said I should do, and the results are pretty conclusive: dropping CL/CAS by 1 is about the same as 266 mhz effective increase in memory speed. DDR3-1600 CAS 7 = DDR3-2400 CAS10. And 1T vs. 2T is not a big deal either. It might be worth it to test other apps to see if there are similar results, but for me, I think that's enough data to satisfy my curiosity.


I can run my RipjawZs at 1600CL6, 1866CL7, 2133CL8 or 2400CL9. Kind of lucked out on this 2400CL10 kit


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> +
> 
> So in this case what is best?
> 
> More Frequency or lower latency?
> 
> What is better to get?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


For an 860k, it's either-or. Realistically speaking, the best you're going to get will be:

DDR3-1600 CAS6, DDR3-1866 CAS7, DDR3-2133 CAS8, DDR3-2400 CAS9

Obviously, if you can bump speeds up without sacrificing timings via mild bclk overclocking, you can squeeze a tiny bit more performance out. But, as I said, -1 CAS = +266 DDR3 rating. Balance your memory off that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> I used max mem and saw a huge difference in read, writes, and copy but just a tiny fall off in latency going from 1600 tight timings to 2400 loose timings.


Right, that's why the iGPUs of Kaveri APUs love memory speed so much. The extra bandwidth doesn't really help the Steamroller cores in even memory-sensitive applications though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I can run my RipjawZs at 1600CL6, 1866CL7, 2133CL8 or 2400CL9. Kind of lucked out on this 2400CL10 kit


Yeah, that's about the best you'll see, too. I haven't seen DDR3-1600 CAS5 before. My kit was rated DDR3-2400 CAS11, but with some extra voltage it'll do a bit better.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello guys...

It seems my TridentX memory kit is NOT compatible with my current board...

MSI A88X-G45 Gaming...

I need to find some cheap alternatives to this memory kit...

What do you think about these kits?

- http://www.amazon.es/G-Skill-16-GB-RipjawsX-DDR3-1600/dp/B0064DQR9U/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

or

- http://www.amazon.es/G-Skill-F3-2133C11D-16GZL-Memoria-16%C2%A0GB-2133%C2%A0MHz/dp/B008Y6T990/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1429984269&sr=8-12&keywords=ddr+3+2133

Its this any good?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Right, that's why the iGPUs of Kaveri APUs love memory speed so much. The extra bandwidth doesn't really help the Steamroller cores in even memory-sensitive applications though.
> Yeah, that's about the best you'll see, too. I haven't seen DDR3-1600 CAS5 before. My kit was rated DDR3-2400 CAS11, but with some extra voltage it'll do a bit better.


I saw a min fps increase with a 290 @1200/1500 and cpu at 4.5ghz Is what I'm saying for going all out mhz on the ram.


----------



## DannyDK

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88X-G45-GAMING.html#support-ocmem


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> http://www.msi.com/support/mb/A88X-G45-GAMING.html#support-ocmem


Well thats not why i have asked...

Im asking about OC potential e and price relation for this CPU...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## DannyDK

Just so you can see what ram is supported


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Just so you can see what ram is supported


I understand that, but my question is more like this...

Is this kits any good for OC?

8G or 16GB until Skylake or Zen?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## LPCobris

Well...

I went for 8GB kit (2x4GB)...

And i went for 2x4GB Kingston HyperX Savage memory...

- http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX316C9SRK2_8.pdf

I hope is any good for this setup...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> I saw a min fps increase with a 290 @1200/1500 and cpu at 4.5ghz Is what I'm saying for going all out mhz on the ram.


Interesting, I would not have expected that. Though these things will vary from one application to the next.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Well...
> 
> I went for 8GB kit (2x4GB)...
> 
> And i went for 2x4GB Kingston HyperX Savage memory...
> 
> - http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX316C9SRK2_8.pdf
> 
> I hope is any good for this setup...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I dont see them on the compatibility list, so maybe they wont work on your board.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I dont see them on the compatibility list, so maybe they wont work on your board.


Many people swear by GSkill who run AMD rigs.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Many people swear by GSkill who run AMD rigs.


They ARE good but they have to be the supported ones


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> They ARE good but they have to be the supported ones


GSkill is one of the few brands of memory that specifically lists being compatible with AMD processors and motherboards.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello...

Guess not all of the memorys are made equal...

And MSI might also be lagging on the support...

Im sending back the memory´s and getting another ones...

I also be waiting to see if the memory´s will be supported until a send them back...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Guess not all of the memorys are made equal...
> 
> And MSI might also be lagging on the support...
> 
> Im sending back the memory´s and getting another ones...
> 
> I also be waiting to see if the memory´s will be supported until a send them back...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Memory compatibility is kind of a crapshoot as they will list the single 4gb version of a dual channel 2x4gb set but not the 2x4gb set itself... ect... I usually look for the single channel compatibility and hope dual will work







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Interesting, I would not have expected that. Though these things will vary from one application to the next.


Yea its definitely not all the time but it is nice in certain scenarios. The rig is no longer in max OC form however as it is being used as an office pc with stock cooler and iGPU or I'd rerun some benches. I might be able to next weekend though. Here's my current set of benches on it with and without dGPU http://www.overclock.net/t/1545544/a8-7650k-build-with-benches .


----------



## kxnxng

I just bought a cooler for my 860k, but my google-fu isn't working on finding the best technique for 860k thermal paste appliance, should it just be a pea sized dot in the middle?

google is giving me mixed results (some say dot, some say spread or lines whatever etc)

Thanks


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> I just bought a cooler for my 860k, but my google-fu isn't working on finding the best technique for 860k thermal paste appliance, should it just be a pea sized dot in the middle?
> 
> google is giving me mixed results (some say dot, some say spread or lines whatever etc)
> 
> Thanks


Do the pea


----------



## drmrlordx

Depends on your cooler. If it's an HDT cooler then you need to read up on instructions for your particular HSF.

If it's a "normal" HSF then, yes, go with the pea/grain of rice method.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Depends on your cooler. If it's an HDT cooler then you need to read up on instructions for your particular HSF.
> 
> If it's a "normal" HSF then, yes, go with the pea/grain of rice method.


^this. Some of the HDT coolers have some pretty nasty gaps that should be filled. I like the dab in the middle for nice baseplates though.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Depends on your cooler. If it's an HDT cooler then you need to read up on instructions for your particular HSF.
> 
> If it's a "normal" HSF then, yes, go with the pea/grain of rice method.


HDT cooler? Could you elaborate please? I have not seen that term used :/


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> HDT cooler? Could you elaborate please? I have not seen that term used :/


Heatpipe direct touch coolers like this:



Conventional baseplate:


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Heatpipe direct touch coolers like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Conventional baseplate:


derp thanks, I guess I had not ever seen it in shorthand form like that. thank you though! I do know what those are







that's Monday for ya..


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Noticed that Gigabyte released a new BIOS for some of their boards adding Godavari support...

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4709#bios


----------



## Stray_Bullet

New Bios for Asus A88X Pro / Bios 2001


----------



## LPCobris

Hello!
Any news on the Athlon 870k using "Godaveri" Core?

Im thinking in upgrading my current 860k (that only clocks to 4.2ghz) the the new A10 Kaveri Refresh... It is worth it?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

You probably won't see it for a few months at least. They have to get a big enough supply of otherwise good Godavari chips with bad GPU's before they can sell an Athlon version.


----------



## The Stilt

Has Athlon 870K been confirmed by AMD?









I would imagine at some point the "Godavari" dies will find their way in older models too.


----------



## LPCobris

What about the A10 - 7870k vs the 860k?

Will it worth it?

I have seen some slides that the APU + Discrete GPU will work together and this will level out the performance vs I5 for example...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> What about the A10 - 7870k vs the 860k?
> 
> Will it worth it?
> 
> I have seen some slides that the APU + Discrete GPU will work together and this will level out the performance vs I5 for example...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


That's the HSA technology that AMD has implemented. It's a novel idea, using the compute capabilities of the GPU as a sort-of coprocessor for the CPU. But it's not all that well supported yet, and even if and when it is, it will only benefit certain types of workloads. On top of that, Kaveri/Godavari is not a full HSA implementation; that had to wait for Carrizo.

The 7870K is a Kaveri that has been reworked in some way, and from what we have seen so far, it's what was expected--a Kaveri chip that seems to OC a few hundred MHz higher than a Kaveri does. Godavari is to Kaveri as Richland was to Trinity.

If you must have Godavari now, you can go ahead and buy a 7870K, but you probably won't see its Athlon version for a while, for the reason I stated earlier. It's better to wait, unless you will actually use the onboard GPU in the 7870K, because a full-blown A10 APU costs a lot more than its Athlon counterpart.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That's the HSA technology that AMD has implemented. It's a novel idea, using the compute capabilities of the GPU as a sort-of coprocessor for the CPU. But it's not all that well supported yet, and even if and when it is, it will only benefit certain types of workloads. On top of that, Kaveri/Godavari is not a full HSA implementation; that had to wait for Carrizo.
> 
> The 7870K is a Kaveri that has been reworked in some way, and from what we have seen so far, it's what was expected--a Kaveri chip that seems to OC a few hundred MHz higher than a Kaveri does. Godavari is to Kaveri as Richland was to Trinity.
> 
> If you must have Godavari now, you can go ahead and buy a 7870K, but you probably won't see its Athlon version for a while, for the reason I stated earlier. It's better to wait, unless you will actually use the onboard GPU in the 7870K, because a full-blown A10 APU costs a lot more than its Athlon counterpart.


Hello!
Are you sure about that?

Look to these slides...



HSA Implementation it seems to be done...



What i was talking about...



Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

AMD admits in its own marketing that Carrizo is the first CPU line with full HSA support:



As for any kind of dual graphics with an APU, in my experience it's useless. Either use the APU as the sole GPU in the system, or use a discrete GPU by itself.


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> AMD admits in its own marketing that Carrizo is the first CPU line with full HSA support:
> 
> 
> 
> As for any kind of dual graphics with an APU, in my experience it's useless. Either use the APU as the sole GPU in the system, or use a discrete GPU by itself.


pretty much this. I feel like Windows 10 and dx12 could actually fix it even regardless of hsa but that remains to be seen and or implemented yet.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello...

Its confirmed that Carrizo will come to FM2+ Platform?

Or FM3 will be for ZEN...?

Best Regards.

LPC


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Carrizo won't make it to FM2+.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Its confirmed that Carrizo will come to FM2+ Platform?
> 
> Or FM3 will be for ZEN...?
> 
> Best Regards.
> 
> LPC


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Carrizo won't make it to FM2+.


It has been confirmed rumored? as coming but only as a soldered processor for oem machines.


----------



## LPCobris

Hello...

Thanks for your reply...

My 860k is only OC to 4.2ghz more then this is just insane need of voltage...

How it does compare to an OC 8310/20/50/70?

If i was going to exchange the platform would i be more served with and am3+?

I mean 8cores vs 4 cores?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Thanks for your reply...
> 
> My 860k is only OC to 4.2ghz more then this is just insane need of voltage...
> 
> How it does compare to an OC 8310/20/50/70?
> 
> If i was going to exchange the platform would i be more served with and am3+?
> 
> I mean 8cores vs 4 cores?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


The FX chip will be much better in every way, the only two drawbacks i can think of is that its older tech and use more power, other than that i think you would be better served with the FX chip especialy for gaming since more cores/threads will be used now a days thanks to the xbone and ps4. There are other people on here that knows a lot more than me about the pros and cons about going FX instead of the 860k.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> The FX chip will be much better in every way, the only two drawbacks i can think of is that its older tech and use more power, other than that i think you would be better served with the FX chip especialy for gaming since more cores/threads will be used now a days thanks to the xbone and ps4. There are other people on here that knows a lot more than me about the pros and cons about going FX instead of the 860k.


As of right now, the 860K is better than the FX at pure gaming. New DX12 games could change that.

The 8 core FX is still better at gaming while recording/streaming in high quality.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> As of right now, the 860K is better than the FX at pure gaming. New DX12 games could change that.
> 
> The 8 core FX is still better at gaming while recording/streaming in high quality.


Multicore AAA games are very common now. DAI, The Witcher 3, GTA V,Battfliefield Hardline etc all are games the octocores easily outperform the quad athlons.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Multicore AAA games are very common now. DAI, The Witcher 3, GTA V,Battfliefield Hardline etc all are games the octocores easily outperform the quad athlons.


Got any proof of that?

Study this:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1493307/relative-access-to-execution-throughput-comparison-chart

Games just don't fully utilize that many cores...yet. Games like BF4, ect, still have one heavy thread and spread the rest out. It's not like the Athlon is going to be 100% saturated on each of the four cores. As always, the one heavily used core will become saturated, and the Athlon will always handle that better than the FX-8 core. Like I said, you have to be doing something else like encoding while gaming in order to get all those cores _fully_ utilized.


----------



## LPCobris

So for gaming...

X4 860k is still better than a 8 core FX?

What about frequency comparison? I have my cpu at 4.2ghz...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Got any proof of that?
> 
> Study this:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1493307/relative-access-to-execution-throughput-comparison-chart
> 
> Games just don't fully utilize that many cores...yet. Games like BF4, ect, still have one heavy thread and spread the rest out. It's not like the Athlon is going to be 100% saturated on each of the four cores. As always, the one heavily used core will become saturated, and the Athlon will always handle that better than the FX-8 core. Like I said, you have to be doing something else like encoding while gaming in order to get all those cores _fully_ utilized.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rutk9ErhKG4

The witcher 3, the newest heavy AAA title. Ignore the cutscenes (where geralt speaks etc), during normal gameplay the FX 8350 outclasses overclocked G3258,i3-4130,FX 6300 and it is even with the 4690k (actually slightly more smooth than the i5 as well). The 860 won't keep up with that,unless you think it matches an i5-4690k core per core.

Oh yeah, the Athlon will be 95-100% saturated on all cores in BF4, it even happens with intel quads on multiplayer with high player count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY1B-n_Ar9s


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> So for gaming...
> 
> X4 860k is still better than a 8 core FX?
> 
> What about frequency comparison? I have my cpu at 4.2ghz...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


I know this thread is huge, but we have compared piledriver to steamroller over and over again. Example: my 4.5GHz steamroller beats my 4.9GHz piledriver. Keep in mind that most FX processors also can't get memory/controller going as fast as I got mine going with my 760K so expect AM3+ FX to be even slower


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rutk9ErhKG4
> 
> The witcher 3, the newest heavy AAA title. Ignore the cutscenes (where geralt speaks etc), during normal gameplay the FX 8350 outclasses overclocked G3258,i3-4130,FX 6300 and it is even with the 4690k (actually slightly more smooth than the i5 as well). The 860 won't keep up with that,unless you think it matches an i5-4690k core per core.
> 
> Oh yeah, the Athlon will be 95-100% saturated on all cores in BF4, it even happens with intel quads on multiplayer with high player count.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY1B-n_Ar9s


I already told you that FX 8 core will handle encoding while gaming better than the Athlon. Example: recording a high quality youtube video while gaming EATS cores.

The i5 also chokes in this scenario compared to an i7. If recording/streaming is seriously your thing, then you can justify getting a Haswell E.

Also, Kaveri is on the heels of the Haswell i5:


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I already told you that FX 8 core will handle encoding while gaming better than the Athlon. Example: recording a high quality youtube video while gaming EATS cores.
> 
> The i5 also chokes in this scenario compared to an i7. If recording/streaming is seriously your thing, then you can justify getting a Haswell E.


There is no CPU recording involved in these videos, it is digital foundry, they use capturing hardware, they do it for consoles too. Core count maters a lot in current games. FX 83x0 is an overall better choice than Steamroller quads for gaming. And it isn't just BF4,The Witcher 3 and GTA V. Watchdogs, Far Cry 4, Ryse, Dragon Age Inquisition etc, most AAA of the last 12 months run much better on octocores than SR quads. For DX9 and older games that use two cores only,sure, get an Athlon. Not for current titles.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> There is no CPU recording involved in these videos, it is digital foundry, they use capturing hardware, they do it for consoles too. Core count maters a lot in current games. FX 83x0 is an overall better choice than Steamroller quads for gaming. And it isn't just BF4,The Witcher 3 and GTA V. Watchdogs, Far Cry 4, Ryse, Dragon Age Inquisition etc, most AAA of the last 12 months run much better on octocores than SR quads. For DX9 and older games that use two cores only,sure, get an Athlon. Not for current titles.


Where is the Steamroller in these videos? Basically you are trying to say that those games will run better on an FX-8350 than a Haswell i5, which is simply not true at all. The FX-8350 can't even beat the i3 in straight gaming with all those cores, even with massive overclock.



I'd like you to shed some light on the recording hardware they are using, if you can. I'd like to see how much it costs and if it would be a viable option versus just getting a CPU with a ton of cores. I know there are crappy recording cards that can do like 720p30FPS and some that can even do 720p60FPS, but no one really wants to see that.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Thanks for your reply...
> 
> My 860k is only OC to 4.2ghz more then this is just insane need of voltage...
> 
> How it does compare to an OC 8310/20/50/70?
> 
> If i was going to exchange the platform would i be more served with and am3+?
> 
> I mean 8cores vs 4 cores?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


Very few games can make use of more than four cores. A great many can't really utilize more than two, which is why the Pentium G3258 is so popular even though it's a dual-core with no HT.

A lot of synthetic benchmarks like the 8-core chips, but in real-world gaming scenarios, the 860K is going to almost always be better than an FX, because of its better architecture. It has higher IPC and higher floating-point performance than Piledriver core chips. An 860K at 4.2 is about the same as a Piledriver at 4.6.

FX chips do overclock better, but when you take into account the cost of an 8+2 AM3+ motherboard, the FX chip itself, and the high-end cooling solution you'd need to push the OC near 5 GHz and gain acceptable performance, it's just not worth the money or the time if you're already running an 860K.

If the 860K is not satisfactory, your best option is Intel, unfortunately.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Very few games can make use of more than four cores. A great many can't really utilize more than two, which is why the Pentium G3258 is so popular even though it's a dual-core with no HT.
> 
> A lot of synthetic benchmarks like the 8-core chips, but in real-world gaming scenarios, the 860K is going to almost always be better than an FX, because of its better architecture. It has higher IPC and higher floating-point performance than Piledriver core chips. An 860K at 4.2 is about the same as a Piledriver at 4.6.
> 
> FX chips do overclock better, but when you take into account the cost of an 8+2 AM3+ motherboard, the FX chip itself, and the high-end cooling solution you'd need to push the OC near 5 GHz and gain acceptable performance, it's just not worth the money or the time if you're already running an 860K.
> 
> If the 860K is not satisfactory, your best option is Intel, unfortunately.


Hello!
Thanks for your reply...
What about vs an Intel i7 2700k?

I can get on for 200€ and a cheap Z77...
Does it worth it? The idea ofc is to OC that cpu too...

Does it worth it... Or should i be waiting for skylake?

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> Hello!
> Thanks for your reply...
> What about vs an Intel i7 2700k?
> 
> I can get on for 200€ and a cheap Z77...
> Does it worth it? The idea ofc is to OC that cpu too...
> 
> Does it worth it... Or should i be waiting for skylake?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC


The 2700K is still a killer CPU, and will blow anything we're talking about here into the weeds with just a modest overclock. I don't know what they're worth on the secondary market where you live, but the 2700K is a significant upgrade in every respect from an 860K.

Don't bother waiting for Skylake. Intel's been spinning its wheels for four years. Anybody on an Intel platform newer than Nehalem has no real reason to upgrade if their main purpose is gaming.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Where is the Steamroller in these videos? Basically you are trying to say that those games will run better on an FX-8350 than a Haswell i5, which is simply not true at all. The FX-8350 can't even beat the i3 in straight gaming with all those cores, even with massive overclock.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like you to shed some light on the recording hardware they are using, if you can. I'd like to see how much it costs and if it would be a viable option versus just getting a CPU with a ton of cores. I know there are crappy recording cards that can do like 720p30FPS and some that can even do 720p60FPS, but no one really wants to see that.


The "8350 can't beat i3 in games" is a nice little mantra that in many cases it simply isn't true. It stems mostly from pedestrian sites benching irrelevant scenarios. Like the one you posted above (BF4 campaign). Or check the witcher video i posted. In cutscenes the i3 is slightly better than the FX , most sites would bench that irrelevant part and call it a day. But in real gameplay , like the one further ahead the i3 got trounced with terrible frametimes and the pentium fared even worse.BF4 mo plays much better on FX octos than i3s, it is not even close.

As for SR quads things are simple really. They have improved ipc for most scenarios but they also have shortcommings.
- they lose most of this advantage in games that fill up L3 cache
-since they have only two modules ,module shared resource penalty (it is still there just less acute than what PD has) kicks in once a game sees three cores or more. That's why it is better at poorly threaded games. Nowadays games thread nicely, this is not 2011 any more.

DF is famous for their testing, take a look at thr at eurogamer.net.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> The "8350 can't beat i3 in games" is a nice little mantra that in many cases it simply isn't true. It stems mostly from pedestrian sites benching irrelevant scenarios. Like the one you posted above (BF4 campaign). Or check the witcher video i posted. In cutscenes the i3 is slightly better than the FX , most sites would bench that irrelevant part and call it a day. But in real gameplay , like the one further ahead the i3 got trounced with terrible frametimes and the pentium fared even worse.BF4 mo plays much better on FX octos than i3s, it is not even close.
> 
> As for SR quads things are simple really. They have improved ipc for most scenarios but they also have shortcommings.
> - they lose most of this advantage in games that fill up L3 cache
> -since they have only two modules ,module shared resource penalty (it is still there just less acute than what PD has) kicks in once a game sees three cores or more. That's why it is better at poorly threaded games. Nowadays games thread nicely, this is not 2011 any more.
> 
> DF is famous for their testing, take a look at thr at eurogamer.net.


Since you brought it up, let's talk about that Vishera L3 cache that is practically as slow as DDR3 shall we?

Let's see your AIDA cache and memory score on that FX-8320


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> - they lose most of this advantage in games that fill up L3 cache


The latency is so bad on Bulldozer/Piledriver L3 cache that it's basically useless for 90 percent of software applications out there, including games. Artificial benchmarks might show a performance benefit, but in the real world, it's nonexistent. K10.5 benefitted from L3; Phenom II was noticeably faster than Llano or Athlon II at the same clocks. K15h doesn't, because the implementation of the L3 is so poor. The L3 on FX chips is so slow that in some cases, the CPU is better off fetching the data from main memory than the L3.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The latency is so bad on Bulldozer/Piledriver L3 cache that it's basically useless for 90 percent of software applications out there, including games. Artificial benchmarks might show a performance benefit, but in the real world, it's nonexistent. K10.5 benefitted from L3; Phenom II was noticeably faster than Llano or Athlon II at the same clocks. K15h doesn't, because the implementation of the L3 is so poor. The L3 on FX chips is so slow that in some cases, the CPU is better off fetching the data from main memory than the L3.


Slow is still better than nonexistant, L3 was single-handedly the reason FX4300 was clock for clock faster than its PD APU siblings in some games.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/61510-amd-richland-review-a10-6800k-a10-6700-benchmarked-13.html

4300k has a 300MHz base frequency deficit vs Richland 6880k and still matches it or outright beats it. If L3 was useless it would always,always trail. L3 does matter in real world,not much but it does.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Slow is still better than nonexistant, L3 was single-handedly the reason FX4300 was clock for clock faster than its PD APU siblings in some games.
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/61510-amd-richland-review-a10-6800k-a10-6700-benchmarked-13.html
> 
> 4300k has a 300MHz base frequency deficit vs Richland 6880k and still matches it or outright beats it. If L3 was useless it would always,always trail. L3 does matter in real world,not much but it does.


My 760K stomps all over the FX-4300, and your FX-8320 high latency L3 cache











Don't be shy, show us your AIDA


----------



## Kuivamaa

Do you want games or synthetics? DX9 games or MMO like GW2 which effectively use two cores will run better on SR. But times change and threaded titles are plenty now. If you have a R9 290X or a 7870XT I will gladly bench my cpu in games against yours.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Do you want games or synthetics? DX9 games or MMO like GW2 which effectively use two cores will run better on SR. But times change and threaded titles are plenty now. If you have a R9 290X or a 7870XT I will gladly bench my cpu in games against yours.


You were just bragging about your L3 cache. I want to see it. Run AIDA. It's free.

We already know that Anything DX11 and older doesn't thread properly and that's why the 860K comes out ahead. You don't need to repeat the obvious.


----------



## Horsemama1956

The benchmarks are out there. Because of new additions the 860K will beat a 4300 in synthetic\productivity, but it IS slower in games, just as all Athlons are compared to their bigger brothers since the Phenom II days. I can't imagine there would be any difference in games that use only 2 cores as well. The IPC increase is mostly on paper, it doesn't really add up in real world performance. Performance is low enough on all of the Athlons that there really isn't much difference between 860K and the 760K(or 750K) in reality.


----------



## LPCobris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The benchmarks are out there. Because of new additions the 860K will beat a 4300 in synthetic\productivity, but it IS slower in games, just as all Athlons are compared to their bigger brothers since the Phenom II days. I can't imagine there would be any difference in games that use only 2 cores as well. The IPC increase is mostly on paper, it doesn't really add up in real world performance. Performance is low enough on all of the Athlons that there really isn't much difference between 860K and the 760K(or 750K) in reality.


So this is not a good cpu for gaming?
I play at 2560x1440p so normally im gpu limited...

I have my cpu currently at 4.3ghz at 1.50v...

Best Regards,

LPC


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The benchmarks are out there. Because of new additions the 860K will beat a 4300 in synthetic\productivity, but it IS slower in games, just as all Athlons are compared to their bigger brothers since the Phenom II days. I can't imagine there would be any difference in games that use only 2 cores as well. The IPC increase is mostly on paper, it doesn't really add up in real world performance. Performance is low enough on all of the Athlons that there really isn't much difference between 860K and the 760K(or 750K) in reality.


FX-4300 is NOT faster than the Athlon 860K at gaming. It's not even faster than the 760K.


----------



## matty50racer

I have both and the 4300 is absolutely faster clock for clock than richland and matches kaveri in most cases, but clocks much better. Aida is worthless in the real world. I test doing the things that I actually use such as gaming and video encoding. I will say 4300 is terribly inefficient compared to kavari but It can easily beat it with the L3 and higher clocks.


----------



## matty50racer

Here are some old benches I found using 3dmark 11 in windows 8.1.

*Kaveri 4.5GHZ : 4758
*http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8059958

*4300 4.5GHZ : 4802*
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9049978

*4300 4.9GHZ : 5217*
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9450907


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> Here are some old benches I found using 3dmark 11 in windows 8.1.
> 
> *Kaveri 4.5GHZ : 4758
> *http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8059958
> 
> *4300 4.5GHZ : 4802*
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9049978
> 
> *4300 4.9GHZ : 5217*
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9450907


Smells like fish.

Now a real FX-4300 scores 4078 physics at 4500MHz
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8482819

My Kaveri @4.5GHz = 4640
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9254893

Kaveri wins by 14%

Ouch my Richland beat it up badly too: 4474
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7817417

Fire strike @4.5GHz

FX-4300: 5005
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3730363

760K: 5143
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1458979

Kaveri: 5287
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2579608

Sky Diver: Kaveri wins by a lot despite lower clock:
http://www.3dmark.com/sd/2662066
http://www.3dmark.com/sd/2607583

I could play futuremark all day...


----------



## matty50racer

Sorry no fish. Why do you get offended by my results? I have no reason to make them up, I actually wish the kaveri would beat it because I use it every day and the 4300 is just in a spare rig to play with. I also noticed a difference in BF4 multiplayer and grid autosport. The Kaveri is slightly faster clock for clock encoding in handbrake but with an overclock it was a wash. Performance per watt and small form factor are what make the 7850K a much better processor. I would never use the 4300 for anything but having fun tinkering or a super low budget gaming pc.

I don't know what was wrong with that 4300, maybe the north bridge and memory were running slow. Both of my examples were overclocked to the max stable NB and memory. My kaveri had 2000NB and 2400C10 memory. The vishera had 2579Nb and 2063C8 memory.


----------



## matty50racer

I just looked your scores. You ran your 4300 with one stick of ram at 1333.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> I just looked your scores. You ran your 4300 with one stick of ram at 1333.


How do you explain all of the other scores in the database that show Kaveri ahead?


----------



## matty50racer

I don't have an explanation for other scores being lower. I can only say what I have experienced and my own results. Just for fun I disabled 2 modules on my new 8370E and did a run at 4.5ghz. It did even better than the 4300. NB is at 2600 and memory is 2133C9. I run the same generic green PCB double sided Samsung HCH9 ram in everything.

*8370E 2 modules 4.5ghz : 4947*

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9888546


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> I don't have an explanation for other scores being lower. I can only say what I have experienced and my own results. Just for fun I disabled 2 modules on my new 8370E and did a run at 4.5ghz. It did even better than the 4300. NB is at 2600 and memory is 2133C9. I run the same generic green PCB double sided Samsung HCH9 ram in everything.
> 
> *8370E 2 modules 4.5ghz : 4947*
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/9888546


Since you can disable cores, we should set up a series of benches to compare.

I'm interested in Cinebench R15 single and multi, IBT GFLOPs, ASUS Real Bench (everything except the Open CL). The newer 3Dmark physics tests, and pretty much any other free benches you can think of.


----------



## matty50racer

I just ran Cinebench R15 on my 8370e with 2 modules at 4.5ghz

*8370E 2 Modules R15 : 360
Single : 107*

4.52modulescinebench.PNG 1275k .PNG file


I haven't tried it yet on my 7850k. I'm curios, how does your 860k compare?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty50racer*
> 
> I just ran Cinebench R15 on my 8370e with 2 modules at 4.5ghz
> 
> *8370E 2 Modules R15 : 360
> Single : 107*
> 
> 4.52modulescinebench.PNG 1275k .PNG file
> 
> 
> I haven't tried it yet on my 7850k. I'm curios, how does your 860k compare?




377/107


----------



## matty50racer

That's a decent multithread gain, about 5%. I also ran firestrike and that shows steamroller ahead by about 4%

*8370E 2 Modules firestrike : 5067*

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/7192013


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> You were just bragging about your L3 cache. I want to see it. Run AIDA. It's free.
> 
> We already know that Anything DX11 and older doesn't thread properly and that's why the 860K comes out ahead. You don't need to repeat the obvious.


I wasn't bragging. I was clear. When you get two Products using the same core and similar clocks with only big difference being the lack of L3 in one of the two, when that one loses the lack of L3 is the best explanation. See my richland vs vishera related topic above. For comparison's sake i have an fx 8320, a 290x and a 7870xt readily available, and lots of games to bench. If you have a similar gpu let's compare. You will be surprised on how many games the vishera octo will handily beat the SR athlon.although you shouldn't be. It is like comparing a haswell i3 to an ivy i7. One generation ahead but half the cpu.


----------



## Ketcchup

Now that summer _is coming™_ and I'm starting to be cooking with high temps I have underclocked my 860K to output less heat (i'm not playing AAA games just LoL) and have a better summer

For now I reached 3.5GHz at 1.34V, how much far do you think I can go? I'll try later with 1.325V


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> I wasn't bragging. I was clear. When you get two Products using the same core and similar clocks with only big difference being the lack of L3 in one of the two, when that one loses the lack of L3 is the best explanation. See my richland vs vishera related topic above. For comparison's sake i have an fx 8320, a 290x and a 7870xt readily available, and lots of games to bench. If you have a similar gpu let's compare. You will be surprised on how many games the vishera octo will handily beat the SR athlon.although you shouldn't be. It is like comparing a haswell i3 to an ivy i7. One generation ahead but half the cpu.


So no AIDA?


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> So no AIDA?


At which point exactly did I claim that L3 is good at synthetics or what have you? Games is what I discussed from the get go? Wanna bench yay or nay?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> At which point exactly did I claim that L3 is good at synthetics or what have you? Games is what I discussed from the get go? Wanna bench yay or nay?


I don't have a 290x or 7870 XT though. Right now on my test bench I have two HD 7850s, one of which is a poor clocker.

But it's ok if you can't show your AIDA I guess. I'll just use my imagination of how pathetic it is.

Probably looks something like this one:


----------



## Kuivamaa

And what is that suppoose to prove, when your unit doesn't have L3 and it probably has to read from RAM which is worse?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> And what is that suppoose to prove, when your unit doesn't have L3 and it probably has to read from RAM which is worse?


Compare the latencies. You'll see that the L3 cache is so poor that it might as well be accessing RAM. If you look at a modern Intel L3, you'll see it is magnitude faster.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Why don't you bench actual real word software Like games and encoding etc? Synthetics are horrible and I don't understand why anyone even bothers other than they are easy to run.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Why don't you bench actual real word software Like games and encoding etc? Synthetics are horrible and I don't understand why anyone even bothers other than they are easy to run.


Sure. You get to buy us the same games and same graphics cards.


----------



## damric

Quote from mdocod:
Quote:


> Regarding L3.
> 
> L3 makes a significant difference in performance if it is substantially faster than system RAM (higher bandwidth and lower latency). Unfortunately bulldozer/piledriver architecture represents a regression in L3 performance compared to the K10 architecture. When we factor in the regression in L3 performance, combined with the improved memory controller (can run higher speeds/bandwidth, lower effective latency), the delta in performance between the L3 cache and just using system RAM instead, is minimal on PD.
> 
> Unfortunately, when the CPU is sharing a memory controller with the GPU, the performance of the system memory (from the CPUs perspective) tanks, and there would be significant advantages to having L3 available to the CPU in this configuration. Pretty silly eh? On FX, L3 isn't important because the system memory is dedicated and the L3 is too slow to offer advantages. Where L3 would have the best chance of improving performance, is on the platform that doesn't have room on the die for it.
> 
> In contrast, the L3 performance on the Intel platform, is comparable to the L2 performance on the AMD platform, as such, L3 makes a BIG difference in performance on a haswell chip.


----------



## Horsemama1956

You don't need the same graphics card, just don't run gpu limited games maxed out and an overclocked 7850 won't be far off from a 7870xt anyways.

A lot of the tweaks for Kaveri mean almost next to nothing in real world performance.

Thats comparing Intel vs AMD though? AMD vs AMD not having cache is not going to be an advantage.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Compare the latencies. You'll see that the L3 cache is so poor that it might as well be accessing RAM. If you look at a modern Intel L3, you'll see it is magnitude faster.


Nobody denies that intel L3 is faster. RAM vs L3, even slow one, is another, very different story.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> You don't need the same graphics card, just don't run gpu limited games maxed out and an overclocked 7850 won't be far off from a 7870xt anyways.
> 
> A lot of the tweaks for Kaveri mean almost next to nothing in real world performance.
> 
> Thats comparing Intel vs AMD though? AMD vs AMD not having cache is not going to be an advantage.


Kaveri was improved in many ways. The problem are the CPUs we compare. As I mentioned eariler, a haswell i3 will have better ipc/ips than a similarily clocked i7 3770. But I don't think many of us around here question which one is gonna be better for most games. Just swap the i3 with 860k and 3770 for 8350 and you get a very similar scenario.


----------



## Ketcchup

1.312V @ 4GHz, my chip is a bad one... I was hoping for less than 1.3V. But at least I'm sweating less. Gonna try tomorrow 3.8-3.9 at sub 1.3V

edit: nope, 1.334 is the minimum stable at stock, 1.31V working for 3.7


----------



## damric

Ok so I downloaded this new Final Fantasy bench yesterday and just had a chance to run it.

I couldn't figure out how to set resolution so it's at 720p. Settings are maximum with DX11. Crossfire was disabled and my HD 7850 was at stock clocks.

I ran it with my Athlon 860K at 4.2GHz:



It looked like it was using all four cores, but none of them got much over 50%.


----------



## syl1979

I see you have run the test with system Memory at 2400Nhz cas 9.

I have tried from my side with the acceptable memory settings for my RAM, also with the cpu at 4.2Ghz and I have forced my HD7850 to your own frequencies.

DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 : 6946
DDR3 1866 9-10-10-27 : 7007
DDR3 2133 10-11-11-33 : 7023

I am on windows 7 , may be this explain such big difference ? Can you run with your ram at one of the settings above to compare ?


----------



## jsc1973

You can change the resolution under "Display Settings." I just ran the whole thing at 1200p with maximum settings and got 3806:



This is with a stock 6970, memory at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T, CPU at 4.5 GHz, NB at default. I ran it again later with the NB at 2000 and got 3842.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I see you have run the test with system Memory at 2400Nhz cas 9.
> 
> I have tried from my side with the acceptable memory settings for my RAM, also with the cpu at 4.2Ghz and I have forced my HD7850 to your own frequencies.
> 
> DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 : 6946
> DDR3 1866 9-10-10-27 : 7007
> DDR3 2133 10-11-11-33 : 7023
> 
> I am on windows 7 , may be this explain such big difference ? Can you run with your ram at one of the settings above to compare ?


Same settings but with 1600-9-9-9-24 as requested:



What I found interesting is the little graph shows your last score compared to your current score in real time. I was always training it by just a little bit with the memory clocked down.

@JSC I'm going to try it out and see if I can get CFX working. At certain times I was GPU bound (99% usage).

It's such a LONG bench, so I can't say I will make many more runs.


----------



## Himo5

I was going to try that bench on an A10-7870K/R9-270X with dual graphics, but it won't accept that I have DirectX 11.2 installed.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You can change the resolution under "Display Settings." I just ran the whole thing at 1200p with maximum settings and got 3806:
> 
> 
> 
> This is with a stock 6970, memory at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T, CPU at 4.5 GHz, NB at default. I ran it again later with the NB at 2000 and got 3842.


Sweet. I got it going 1080p and full screen with CFX:

I also gave the GPUs a bit of an overclock:

DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24:


DDR3-2400CL9:


For the most part it looks like this bench is CPU bound (despite no single core exceeding about 50%), but there were a couple instances that ran my GPUs up to 99% with slightly less than 60FPS.

This is probably an ideal benchmark for testing APU performance since it could easily scale down with less AA, ect.


----------



## damric

@Kuivamaa @Horsemama1956 care to give this a try with your FX-Visheras?


----------



## Himo5

Huh! Fancy forgetting about D9J10 - I've been away far too long!

This is Godavari at stock, Cpu:3900MHz;Ram:1866MHz:Gpu1:1180MHz;Gpu2:866MHz.


----------



## jsc1973

That benchmark seems to scale well with multiple GPU's. I ran it at 1080p max and got 4117, about half of what you're getting with the dual 7850's. Since a 6970 and a 7850 are pretty close to par with one another, that indicates this is using Crossfire very well.


----------



## DannyDK

Have i understood this correctly, the 7870k can crossfire with a 270x?


----------



## Himo5

Ok, so now I look more closely I see I have to play fair in the graphics settings. Time to scale up:

Cpu:4600MHz;Ram:2133MHz;Gpu1:1180MHz;Gpu2:1040MHz.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Have i understood this correctly, the 7870k can crossfire with a 270x?


No Crossfire but in Godavari the iGPU can contribute in Dual Graphics, as I found out elsewhere. Of course, this is nothing compared to what will be possible with Explicit Asynchronous Multi GPU and Split Frame Rendering when DX12 comes out.

But scaling back down to the default High(Laptop)-720p, here's a fairly hefty overclock to compare with Stock's 9102 result.

Cpu:4620MHz;Ram:2520MHz;Gpu1:1180MHz;Gpu2:1092MHz.


----------



## Kuivamaa

FX [email protected], just multi overclock, [email protected] DDR3, bone stock R9 290X clocks (1000/1250). Doesn't seem to be a particularly useful bench for CPUs, mostly GPU bound it seems. For whatever reason it reports my GPU as having 3GB VRAM.

Edit. Yup, extremely GPU sensitive.



Just +50 core and +50 memory.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> 
> 
> FX [email protected], just multi overclock, [email protected] DDR3, bone stock R9 290X clocks (1000/1250). Doesn't seem to be a particularly useful bench for CPUs, mostly GPU bound it seems. For whatever reason it reports my GPU as having 3GB VRAM.
> 
> Edit. Yup, extremely GPU sensitive.
> 
> 
> 
> Just +50 core and +50 memory.


Your CPU held you back since you should have outscored me by more with that 290X.

The OC'd Haswells really tear this bench up. You can see some of those scores in the Square Enix forum.

I'll see if I can break 9K with some higher overclocks, but I'm not getting my hopes up since my air conditioning in my laboratory sucks and I'm working in 90F ambients right now.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Your 7850s have the same exact amount of ROP combined with my 290X. Fewer shaders but they are clocked higher too, so naturally they aren't that far off. If I switch backround process off and a bit of clock and some ram tweaking I may hit 10k, will try later.

Edit. 1640MHz DDR3 with FSB at 205. GPU at 1100/1300. It seems to scale nicely with RAM too,I may toy around with it tomorrow.


----------



## damric

*HD 7850: 1024 Graphics Core Next 1.0 unitifed shaders, 64 texture mapping units, 32 render output units, 2GB GDDR5, 256bit memory bus. (X2)

R9 290X: 2816 Graphics Core Next 1.1 unitifed shaders, 176 texture mapping units, 64 render output units, 4GB GDDR5, 512bit memory bus.*

Your R9 290X will always be faster than my CFX HD 7850s.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> *HD 7850: 1024 Graphics Core Next 1.0 unitifed shaders, 64 texture mapping units, 32 render output units, 2GB GDDR5, 256bit memory bus. (X2)
> 
> R9 290X: 2816 Graphics Core Next 1.1 unitifed shaders, 176 texture mapping units, 64 render output units, 4GB GDDR5, 512bit memory bus.*
> 
> Your R9 290X will always be faster than my CFX HD 7850s.


It is. Clock for clock (plus system RAM) I will probably have 1.5k higher or so. But your 7850s are clearly faster than a R9 280X in such a benchmark that scales so nicely, even with the same amount of GCN cores,because pitcairn had a better engine pound for pound than tahiti.


----------



## jsc1973

Extremely GPU bound. I downclocked my CPU to 3.3 GHz and ran the benchmark at 720 and 1080 with everything else the same, and this is what happened:



That's 1080p at 3.3 GHz. As I mentioned earlier, running it at 4.5 GHz only got me 4117. Basically no difference even with a 26.7 percent drop in CPU power.

Here's 720p at 3.3:



And 720p at 4.5:



This is the game that AMD should be using to promote their CPU's. This thing wouldn't care what CPU you ran it on (within reason) as long as the GPU is good.


----------



## damric

This is the best I can do with this hot ass laboratory, but I did break 9K!



Also a shame that one of my HD 7850s is a poor clocker. The good one can bench about 1225/1500.


----------



## damric

Hey do you guys know of any more free stand alone game benches? I'll DL tonight.


----------



## jsc1973

No doubt about it. The latest FFIV likes fast GPU's. I bet it would even do fine if you switched off one core per module and ran it 2c/2t with both FPU's still active.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> No doubt about it. The latest FFIV likes fast GPU's. I bet it would even do fine if you switched off one core per module and ran it 2c/2t with both FPU's still active.


We can run it at 720p and prove that without a doubt that the 860K handles it better than the FX-8350, but I think my 9K score already proves that. The R9 290X should be scoring MUCH higher if it was GPU bound.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Also a shame that one of my HD 7850s is a poor clocker. The good one can bench about 1225/1500.


At least it will OC. This 6970 wouldn't run the benchmark at 925/1425 (default is 880/1375). I wish I had a 290X hanging around so I could see how the 860K would do against the Visheras on equal terms. But this game is pretty old, albeit with a new expansion pack, so I don't know that it proves much.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> At least it will OC. This 6970 wouldn't run the benchmark at 925/1425 (default is 880/1375). I wish I had a 290X hanging around so I could see how the 860K would do against the Visheras on equal terms. But this game is pretty old, albeit with a new expansion pack, so I don't know that it proves much.


I'm trying to convince my wife to let me run it on her Haswell. Usually I'm not allowed to bench on her machine, but she is lol'ing at this.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

I gave it a go... first run


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> We can run it at 720p and prove that without a doubt that the 860K handles it better than the FX-8350, but I think my 9K score already proves that. The R9 290X should be scoring MUCH higher if it was GPU bound.


I seriously doubt your score proves as much. I took RAM to 1912MHz but I had to loosen up the timings considerably (10-11-10-28, my kit is pedestrian) so it didn't make big difference.



Tried to raise the clock above 1100/1300 but bench would just stop responding. I think my card maxes out on air around 1110-1120 anyway. All in all judging by your clocks and the application in question ,you seem to be positioned about right vs my card. I may try your driver tomorrow to see If that makes any difference but from a quick look around, I doubt it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3823jk/question_about_the_heavensward_benchmark/ haswell [email protected] reported to be giving 9.5k with a single 290X, a 4770k reported to be doing 11k.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1553749/square-new-bench-final-fantasy-xiv-heavensward/20 . i7 4790k with stock 290X does 10.4k which is again about right, the 4770k should be benching higher than both i5s and FX-8xxxs


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> I gave it a go... first run


What is that an R9 290? What was your CPU clock?


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> What is that an R9 290? What was your CPU clock?


Yeah 290 Vapor-X , CPU at 4.3, NB @ 2000


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Curious... any of you disable core parking?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Curious... any of you disable core parking?


I have never messed with that.


----------



## PhRe4k

I have been entertaining the idea of upgrading to a 8350, for gaming would I notice a difference? I play at 1080p


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I have been entertaining the idea of upgrading to a 8350, for gaming would I notice a difference? I play at 1080p


Not really, not many games will use the 4 extra cores.

Wait for Zen or Skylake


----------



## DannyDK

Or just wait for Win10 and DX12


----------



## Ketcchup

Well his current graphics card will only support DX12 with a feature level 11_1, so he won't notice any performance improvement


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I have been entertaining the idea of upgrading to a 8350, for gaming would I notice a difference? I play at 1080p


1080p on a 280x, wouldn't make any difference. You might actually be worse off.

Some of the people with Vishera and super high-end GPU setups have posted here recently and shown that their rigs do benefit from the octocore chips when game settings and resolutions are turned way up, but a single 280x isn't in that category; we're talking about R9 295 and Titan X type of stuff. It looks like the fact it has four FPU units instead of the two in the Athlon makes a difference, and so octo Vishera beats quad Kaveri even when the extra execution units rarely get utilized.

The 860K has higher IPC and better floating-point per-core performance, so to benefit from Vishera, you need to clock it higher and be able to use at least some of the added resources it offers. 1080p on a 280x can't really do that. I'd hold off on any CPU upgrade until my next GPU upgrade.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> I have been entertaining the idea of upgrading to a 8350, for gaming would I notice a difference? I play at 1080p


Depends purely on your selection of games. But generally speaking you will better off with a faster GPU instead.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Well his current graphics card will only support DX12 with a feature level 11_1, so he won't notice any performance improvement


So people with dx11/dx11.1/dx11.2 wont get dx12 gains? Thought all cards that had 11 and 11+ would bennefit.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

What's the general consensus of this chip's OC potential?


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> So people with dx11/dx11.1/dx11.2 wont get dx12 gains? Thought all cards that had 11 and 11+ would bennefit.


You will run DX12 games but without DX12 gains, just like it's DX11
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> What's the general consensus of this chip's OC potential?


Sillicon lottery at it's maximum. Some people can't overclock past 4.1, others can reach 5GHz with less than 1.5v.

I can't pass 4.3GHz... well, 4.4 at 1.54V but it's just nope nope nope.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> What's the general consensus of this chip's OC potential?


On a 6+2 power phase board, you've got a good chance of hitting 4.5, but it might take 1.5v to get there. The best boards for the 860K are the two ASUS 6+2 boards, but the Giga UD4 should be able to do well, too. These chips seem very sensitive to any kind of current fluctuation; serious Vdroop crashes them in no time. The extra power phases seem to help by eliminating that issue. On my board, the chip stays at 1.512v under load with no fluctuation. But when I "upgraded" to a newer BIOS revision that was based on a Godavari profile, the voltage fluctuated from 1.496 to 1.524, and it would crash.

This particular 860K runs hot. It runs inside 10C of its thermal limit even with a Megahalems in push-pull, which is a lot more than these usually need. For most people, an ol' reliable 212 Evo is enough even for 4.5 if your board can do it.

On a good 4+2 board, you usually get 4.3, 4.4 if you're lucky. Some people have made 4.5, but that's just the silicon lottery.


----------



## damric

It took me over 1.6v to stabilize 4.5GHz for that FF bench. MSI board didn't flinch.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Not really, not many games will use the 4 extra cores.
> 
> Wait for Zen or Skylake


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Or just wait for Win10 and DX12


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> 1080p on a 280x, wouldn't make any difference. You might actually be worse off.
> 
> Some of the people with Vishera and super high-end GPU setups have posted here recently and shown that their rigs do benefit from the octocore chips when game settings and resolutions are turned way up, but a single 280x isn't in that category; we're talking about R9 295 and Titan X type of stuff. It looks like the fact it has four FPU units instead of the two in the Athlon makes a difference, and so octo Vishera beats quad Kaveri even when the extra execution units rarely get utilized.
> 
> The 860K has higher IPC and better floating-point per-core performance, so to benefit from Vishera, you need to clock it higher and be able to use at least some of the added resources it offers. 1080p on a 280x can't really do that. I'd hold off on any CPU upgrade until my next GPU upgrade.


Fair enough, to be honest it's not out of a need for better performance. I just have upgrade-itis







I'll look into overclocking a bit further, currently at 4.2 with a small bump in voltage. Hoping to get 4.5 at reasonable temps/voltages. I'm not worried about my 6+2 board but will see how my 212 Evo handles things


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Anyone else have stuttering issues in the "HeavenSward" benchmark?


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> On my board, the chip stays at 1.512v under load with no fluctuation. But when I "upgraded" to a newer BIOS revision that was based on a Godavari profile, the voltage fluctuated from 1.496 to 1.524, and it would crash.


I have noticed this too on my crossblade, but thought it was due too LCC settings, newest bios on ASUS also give's me fluctuating voltage, maybe i should try an older bios.

[edit]
Here's an example on the newest bios set on manual voltage 1.450V


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> I have noticed this too on my crossblade, but thought it was due too LCC settings, newest bios on ASUS also give's me fluctuating voltage, maybe i should try an older bios.


Try the last one before they added support for the Godavari CPU's. In the case of the PRO, they seem to have optimized the BIOS for Godavari as soon as they added support for it. The second Godavari revision for the PRO (1902, I never tried 1803, the first) would still maintain my overclock, barely, but it also caused slight fluctuations in the vcore. When I upgraded again, to 2001, it had trouble even booting at 4.5. I managed to get into Windows once, with the voltage jumping over that range that I mentioned earlier, and eventually got a BSOD. Most of the time, it wouldn't even boot except at stock settings.

As soon as I downgraded back to 1703, everything worked as it should--stable 4.5 GHz at 1.512v without fluctuation, RAM at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T at 1.65v, NB at 2 GHz at 1.15v.

ASUS should really have something on their website stating that these new BIOSes can cause problems with overclocked Kaveri. I would imagine the vast majority of people who pony up for A88X-PRO and Crossblade Ranger are doing so with the intent of overclocking; if you just want to run stock, anything ASUS has in FM2+ will work. There's no doubt it was the BIOS that messed everything up. When I went from 1703 to 1902, it caused a slight degradation in stability, and then 2001 broke it completely. Going back to 1703 fixed everything.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Try the last one before they added support for the Godavari CPU's. In the case of the PRO, they seem to have optimized the BIOS for Godavari as soon as they added support for it. The second Godavari revision for the PRO (1902, I never tried 1803, the first) would still maintain my overclock, barely, but it also caused slight fluctuations in the vcore. When I upgraded again, to 2001, it had trouble even booting at 4.5. I managed to get into Windows once, with the voltage jumping over that range that I mentioned earlier, and eventually got a BSOD. Most of the time, it wouldn't even boot except at stock settings.
> 
> As soon as I downgraded back to 1703, everything worked as it should--stable 4.5 GHz at 1.512v without fluctuation, RAM at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T at 1.65v, NB at 2 GHz at 1.15v.
> 
> ASUS should really have something on their website stating that these new BIOSes can cause problems with overclocked Kaveri. I would imagine the vast majority of people who pony up for A88X-PRO and Crossblade Ranger are doing so with the intent of overclocking; if you just want to run stock, anything ASUS has in FM2+ will work. There's no doubt it was the BIOS that messed everything up. When I went from 1703 to 1902, it caused a slight degradation in stability, and then 2001 broke it completely. Going back to 1703 fixed everything.


Interesting... I might give 1703 a try again since Ihave fluctuation problems also.


----------



## kxnxng

I downgraded too 903, the bios came out the same date as the one you are using and it's the one before the support for godavari came, but i havent been able too get a stable overclock yet, i cant even get it too boot with 2000 on the NB, it was way easier on the latest bios.
But i need to continue testing, havent found the perfect OC yet tho.


----------



## jsc1973

I think the Ranger and the Pro are more or less the same in this regard, so try my settings and see if they work for you.

Vcore 1.5325 manual, LLC normal (should give you about 1.512 effective). Leave the P-states active if you wish (I do), but definitely turn off CPB (Turbo). Set the OC for 45x100.

For the NB, I just set it to 2000 and gave the NB a slight bump to 1.15. You might need more than that, some do. I'm not sure how much that will help you, though, unless you're putting a heavy OC on that RAM.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I think the Ranger and the Pro are more or less the same in this regard, so try my settings and see if they work for you.
> 
> Vcore 1.5325 manual, LLC normal (should give you about 1.512 effective). Leave the P-states active if you wish (I do), but definitely turn off CPB (Turbo). Set the OC for 45x100.
> 
> For the NB, I just set it to 2000 and gave the NB a slight bump to 1.15. You might need more than that, some do. I'm not sure how much that will help you, though, unless you're putting a heavy OC on that RAM.


Thanks for the help.

For some reason i cant even set my NB to the default 1800, it simply wont boot, once i set it back to auto it boots again, it did boot on the newer BIOS at 2ghz.

I have set my voltage too 1.53750 , it was either that or 1.53125. CPU-Z and AIDA64 are telling me the voltage is fluctuating between 1.512~1.536 during IBT on standard/high it hanged on me after a few stresstests with temps around 58~C, need to do some further testing.

[edit]
Just flashed newest bios and it took 2ghz on NB right away, i can also set voltage too 1.5325, although it wasnt stable @ 4.5Ghz, maybe im just unlucky and got a lesser chip.

[edit 2]
Another weird thing, i keep getting Intel Burn Test errors at the end of a run, even tho it finished all tests... even on stock settings on standard i get it sometimes.. i think something different is wrong with my system...


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> definitely turn off CPB (Turbo)


Why disable CPB?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Why disable CPB?


If you leave it active, you're effectively asking the motherboard to overclock on top of your own overclock. And that doesn't work very well.

Turning that off but leaving the p-states active is better, because then the chip idles at 1.7 GHz and only runs at 4.5 GHz and 1.5xx volts when it really needs to. Not all boards can operate that way, from what I can tell, but Pros and Rangers can. It probably holds you back a little bit to run that way, but IMO it's worth it for the health of the chip and the reduced power consumption.

Only use CPB if you're running at stock or with a mild overclock.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you leave it active, you're effectively asking the motherboard to overclock on top of your own overclock. And that doesn't work very well.
> 
> Turning that off but leaving the p-states active is better, because then the chip idles at 1.7 GHz and only runs at 4.5 GHz and 1.5xx volts when it really needs to. Not all boards can operate that way, from what I can tell, but Pros and Rangers can. It probably holds you back a little bit to run that way, but IMO it's worth it for the health of the chip and the reduced power consumption.
> 
> Only use CPB if you're running at stock or with a mild overclock.


K, got it. What do you consider a mild overclock?

I haven't checked yet but I am pretty sure CPB for me is set in bios to Auto. Do you know what it defaults to by chance when overclocking?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> K, got it. What do you consider a mild overclock?
> 
> I haven't checked yet but I am pretty sure CPB for me is set in bios to Auto. Do you know what it defaults to by chance when overclocking?


I wouldn't use the Turbo feature if the base clock is set any higher than 4 GHz.

Stock settings for the 860K are 3.7/4.0 turbo, so I would imagine that CPB at Auto would overclock a single module as much as 300 MHz above base frequency. If you're running a 4.5 overclock with CPB active, it could be trying to run one module at 4.8 at God knows what voltage. You don't want that to happen. At best, you get a BSOD. At worst, you might fry the chip. Maybe the BIOS knows better and won't attempt to do that, but I'm not going to risk the life of my 860K to find out.

Bear in mind that if you do it the way I suggested, you're effectively running a full quad-core turbo at 4.5 GHz whenever needed, while powering down when it's not. If you're running one of these high-performance ASUS boards, I really think this is the best way to do it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Another weird thing, i keep getting Intel Burn Test errors at the end of a run, even tho it finished all tests... even on stock settings on standard i get it sometimes.. i think something different is wrong with my system...
> Also i dont think any bios is giving me a stable voltage, would love to hear from other crossblade owners which bios they are using


Are you overclocking your RAM? It could be an issue with that if it's not the CPU. RAM that's run beyond its limits can generate errors just like an overstressed CPU can. IBT is pretty good at exposing stability issues. I've had IBT failures even when P95 has passed before.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Are you overclocking your RAM? It could be an issue with that if it's not the CPU. RAM that's run beyond its limits can generate errors just like an overstressed CPU can. IBT is pretty good at exposing stability issues. I've had IBT failures even when P95 has passed before.


It's happening even on stock settings (1.5V 9-9-9-24 1600Mhz) currently running memtest86 for 10 passes on all tests while im at work too see if there are any errors.
Even at the bios optimized default settings its failing sometimes.

[edit]
Memtest passed 11 hours on 10 passes, 0 errors, but i think i just used the wrong IBT, i redownloaded from from major geeks and now im passing everything


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> It's happening even on stock settings (1.5V 9-9-9-24 1600Mhz) currently running memtest86 for 10 passes on all tests while im at work too see if there are any errors.
> Even at the bios optimized default settings its failing sometimes.
> 
> [edit]
> Memtest passed 11 hours on 10 passes, 0 errors, but i think i just used the wrong IBT, i redownloaded from from major geeks and now im passing everything


Make sure it is IBT with AVX. You should be over 40 GFLOPs using AVX. The old version won't stress your CPU as much.


----------



## jsc1973

The MajorGeeks version of IBT is 2.54, which I believe is the most recent. I haven't seen any newer.

If you're passing IBT, try some Prime95 and see if that passes too. If it does, you're good to go.

The RAM sounds like it's good. I only asked because you were running 1600 RAM, and I thought you might be overclocking it more than one speed grade up. Most of the G.SKILL stuff can go one step higher with no issues at all, but more than that is pushing it. I've got some 2133 running at 2400 with slightly tighter timings, which worked when I boosted the vdimm from stock 1.6 to 1.65.


----------



## kxnxng

Well it's not the AVX version, im getting about 20gflops on the other IBT, but i cant seem to pass the AVX version consistently even on stock settings, so im puzzled as to what it can be.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Well it's not the AVX version, im getting about 20gflops on the other IBT, but i cant seem to pass the AVX version consistently even on stock settings, so im puzzled as to what it can be.


You have instability somewhere. First try it with low RAM usage to rule out CPU. After you are sure your CPU is stable, assign 3/4 of your RAM to stress your memory controller and RAM.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

I don't know if this will help... but this, if I remember correctly, is/was my OC ritual.

Leave ram at their factory settings, whatever the mhz they are with their timings.
NB at default.
Adjust the multiplier
Run 50 passses of IBT standard mem usage, If errors occur, up the cpu voltage until you can pass all 50 runs.
Run 50 passes of IBT with 3/4 mem usuage. If errors occur, up the cpu voltage until you can pass all 50 runs.
Up the NB frequnecy.
Run another 50 passes with 3/4 mem usage and up the NB voltage until you can complete all 50 runs. You can try for a higher NB frequency than 2000, but I had no luck at all.
10 runs of Realbench benchmark, if it crashes, up the CPU voltage until you can pass all 10 runs. (this eliminates the need to run P95 small FFT's)
8 hours of Realbench stress test. If errors occur, up the CPU voltage.
24 hours of P95 Large FFT's, if errors occur, up the CPU voltage. (Make sure you have error checking and round off checking marked)
24 hours of P95 blend. If errors occur, up the NB voltage.

I have never had an error with the final run of blend...or any crashes, lockups or anything after all the testing. But for now you could also try HCI memetest. http://hcidesign.com/memtest/ , I find it much better than memtest86 to see if your ram is an issue. Try to pass 100% (but 1000% is better) of the test, you also need to open up four instances of it for each core and mem distributed equally.

If anyone could add to this, or correct me in any way, that would be awesome... my memory is bad, so just trying my best to remember what the hell it is I do when I OC lolz, but it doesn't fail lmao


----------



## kxnxng

I *think* i got it stable again 4.4Ghz @ 1.485V, did 50 passes on standard and 20 on maximum which passed, currently it's running HCI Memtest so i will check the results when im home.
Gonna do 12 hours of Prime95 and 50 tests on maximum IBT, and a few hours of Realbench Stress tests.

Steps i took : opening up my case and repressing all the wires/connectors to make sure all was connected properly (which it looked like it was)
i just upgraded too win 8.1, i turned on performance energy settings, run IBT in windows 7 compability mode with admin rights.
All these things shouldnt really matter i think, but yeah, im passing everything now for some reason , also on the AVX version.

[edit]
HCI memtest ran for 8+ hours, did 4 instances.
3 with 2047mb all unused on the 4th, 500% on the 2047 and 1000% on the 4th, with 0 errors.
This was with 4.4Ghz OC and 2000 NB, tomorrow im running 50 maximum IBT tests.

Thanks for all the tips guys! appreciate it.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LPCobris*
> 
> So for gaming...
> 
> X4 860k is still better than a 8 core FX?
> 
> What about frequency comparison? I have my cpu at 4.2ghz...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> LPC
> 
> 
> 
> I know this thread is huge, but we have compared piledriver to steamroller over and over again. Example: my 4.5GHz steamroller beats my 4.9GHz piledriver. Keep in mind that most FX processors also can't get memory/controller going as fast as I got mine going with my 760K so expect AM3+ FX to be even slower
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> The "8350 can't beat i3 in games" is a nice little mantra that in many cases it simply isn't true. It stems mostly from pedestrian sites benching irrelevant scenarios. Like the one you posted above (BF4 campaign). Or check the witcher video i posted. In cutscenes the i3 is slightly better than the FX , most sites would bench that irrelevant part and call it a day. But in real gameplay , like the one further ahead the i3 got trounced with terrible frametimes and the pentium fared even worse.BF4 mo plays much better on FX octos than i3s, it is not even close.
> 
> As for SR quads things are simple really. They have improved ipc for most scenarios but they also have shortcommings.
> - they lose most of this advantage in games that fill up L3 cache
> -since they have only two modules ,module shared resource penalty (it is still there just less acute than what PD has) kicks in once a game sees three cores or more. That's why it is better at poorly threaded games. Nowadays games thread nicely, this is not 2011 any more.
> 
> DF is famous for their testing, take a look at thr at eurogamer.net.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you brought it up, let's talk about that Vishera L3 cache that is practically as slow as DDR3 shall we?
> 
> Let's see your AIDA cache and memory score on that FX-8320
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Slow is still better than nonexistant, L3 was single-handedly the reason FX4300 was clock for clock faster than its PD APU siblings in some games.
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/61510-amd-richland-review-a10-6800k-a10-6700-benchmarked-13.html
> 
> 4300k has a 300MHz base frequency deficit vs Richland 6880k and still matches it or outright beats it. If L3 was useless it would always,always trail. L3 does matter in real world,not much but it does.
> 
> 
> 
> My 760K stomps all over the FX-4300, and your FX-8320 high latency L3 cache
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be shy, show us your AIDA
Click to expand...

Have to be kind of careful about comparing AIDA scores, has to be the same version. Found one of mine for the 9370 that was very close to stock cpu clocks of 4.4ghz - seems to match the version in the SS above.

I ran several of my FX's at this memory clock as a daily overclock for the better part of a year . Very snappy setup.

Your thoughts?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Have to be kind of careful about comparing AIDA scores, has to be the same version. Found one of mine for the 9370 that was very close to stock cpu clocks of 4.4ghz - seems to match the version in the SS above.
> 
> I ran several of my FX's at this memory clock as a daily overclock for the better part of a year . Very snappy setup.
> 
> Your thoughts?


35.7ns is pretty bad for L3. Phenom I (ONE) was like 1/3 that even with the TLB bug. 35.7ns not much better than good RAM. The whole point of on-die cache is low latency. I don't know why Bulldozer had such a regression on cache. It's so bad that it would be better left off the die so at least it runs cooler.


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> 35.7ns is pretty bad for L3. Phenom I (ONE) was like 1/3 that even with the TLB bug. 35.7ns not much better than good RAM. The whole point of on-die cache is low latency. I don't know why Bulldozer had such a regression on cache. It's so bad that it would be better left off the die so at least it runs cooler.


I'd imagine that would have had an entirely opposite effect. Higher level caches are generally pretty power efficient, don't use massive amounts of power, and it arguably helps bring a bit more surface area to cool the chip down. Whether it's actually worth the die space is another thing.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You can change the resolution under "Display Settings." I just ran the whole thing at 1200p with maximum settings and got 3806:
> 
> 
> 
> This is with a stock 6970, memory at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T, CPU at 4.5 GHz, NB at default. I ran it again later with the NB at 2000 and got 3842.


I was trying to get a good read on the differences between an 8 core vishera and the 860 , Damric suggested comparing against his score but he has a 7850 , and I don't.
Could you tell me which 6970 you have and what the stock clocks were on the card when you made that run, and what the 860 was clocked at? I have a couple 6970's I could use - asus dc2 and a power color.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I was trying to get a good read on the differences between an 8 core vishera and the 860 , Damric suggested comparing against his score but he has a 7850 , and I don't.
> Could you tell me which 6970 you have and what the stock clocks were on the card when you made that run, and what the 860 was clocked at? I have a couple 6970's I could use - asus dc2 and a power color.




It's the standard MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 model, not the Lightning. It was set at stock 880/1375 for all of the FFXIV benchmarks I've posted on this thread.

The 860K was set at 4.5 GHz (45*100) with the NB at default for the 3806 run. RAM was set at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T. I got 3842 on a later run with the NB at 2 GHz. Same rig that is in my sig, if you need more information than that.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I was trying to get a good read on the differences between an 8 core vishera and the 860 , Damric suggested comparing against his score but he has a 7850 , and I don't.
> Could you tell me which 6970 you have and what the stock clocks were on the card when you made that run, and what the 860 was clocked at? I have a couple 6970's I could use - asus dc2 and a power color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the standard MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 model, not the Lightning. It was set at stock 880/1375 for all of the benchmarks I've posted on this thread.
> 
> The 860K was set at 4.5 GHz (45*100) with the NB at 2000. RAM was set at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T. Same rig that is in my sig, if you need more information than that.
Click to expand...

That's great , thank you.

Which do you think would be a better card to compare against yours:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131578
Or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121430R ?

Or do you think it would make any difference if they were clocked the same as yours?


----------



## jsc1973

Neither has exactly the same specs as mine, but the PowerColor card uses slower RAM, and you'd have to overclock it quite a bit. If you use the ASUS and slow down the GPU clock by 10 MHz, they should be at par. Shouldn't be any difference then if you use the same driver I did.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Neither has exactly the same specs as mine, but the PowerColor card uses slower RAM, and you'd have to overclock it quite a bit. If you use the ASUS and slow down the GPU clock by 10 MHz, they should be at par. Shouldn't be any difference then if you use the same driver I did.


Ok, I sure appreciate your help. + rep to you









A bit OT , but that powercolor is a heck of an overclocker. Top scores for the combo over at futuremark on firestrike.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> A bit OT , but that powercolor is a heck of an overclocker. Top scores for the combo over at futuremark on firestrike.


It's a lot better than mine. This one won't overclock worth a hoot. I don't normally OC any GPU anyway, but I did try this one in an attempt to see if that particular benchmark was GPU-dependent. It wouldn't do it.


----------



## ronnin426850

Somewhere I read that 860K performs a little better clock for clock than the 760K I own, but might not OC that far, therefore I think I'll keep using my 4.5Ghz 760K for now







I hope we'll get 6 and 8 core Athlons in the years to come


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Somewhere I read that 860K performs a little better clock for clock than the 760K I own, but might not OC that far, therefore I think I'll keep using my 4.5Ghz 760K for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope we'll get 6 and 8 core Athlons in the years to come


If you get a hankering to upgrade, hold off a few months. AMD should come out with a Godavari-based 870K Athlon that is likely to OC better than an 860K. They always come out a few months later than the new A10 version does.

An 860K can put a pretty good whipping on a 760K in some workloads, but there's no point in upgrading to an 860 at this point in the game, not with a better part right around the corner at the same price. Here's an 860 at 4.5 beating a 6800K (a 760 with a GPU) at 4.5 by 14.3 percent:


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> A bit OT , but that powercolor is a heck of an overclocker. Top scores for the combo over at futuremark on firestrike.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a lot better than mine. This one won't overclock worth a hoot. I don't normally OC any GPU anyway, but I did try this one in an attempt to see if that particular benchmark was GPU-dependent. It wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...

That's too bad, most of my MSI cards have been good overclockers.
EVGA seems to be hard to beat on the Nvidia side my 9800 Akimbo's ,780ti and GTX 9800+'s have all been very good OCing cards.
On the AMD side, the one powercolor seems to be as good as anything I've owned for overclocking. The MSI 290X lighting is really good also.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It's a lot better than mine. This one won't overclock worth a hoot. I don't normally OC any GPU anyway, but I did try this one in an attempt to see if that particular benchmark was GPU-dependent. It wouldn't do it.


If you ever remove the heatsink/fans, you should check out the mosfets. I casually saw a close up one day of an MSI R7 250 in a review and it had Nikos mosfets on it. I am not kidding. My eyes popped the moment i saw "Nikos" written on them. I don't think they were D-PAKs (can't remember now), but they were still Nikos...


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tojara*
> 
> I'd imagine that would have had an entirely opposite effect. Higher level caches are generally pretty power efficient, don't use massive amounts of power, and it arguably helps bring a bit more surface area to cool the chip down. Whether it's actually worth the die space is another thing.


Nonsense. Go back through the architectures. Whenever there was more cache, TDP went up.


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Nonsense. Go back through the architectures. Whenever there was more cache, TDP went up.











You missed the point entirely. I said having higher level caches makes things more power efficient, it does not make them use less power. When the performance goes up more than the power usage from having said cache, efficiency increases.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tojara*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the point entirely. I said having higher level caches makes things more power efficient, it does not make them use less power. When the performance goes up more than the power usage from having said cache, efficiency increases.


Compare FX-4300 to Athlon 760K.


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Compare FX-4300 to Athlon 760K.


760k has a TDP 5W higher, but AM3+ chipsets make the 4300 look less efficient. The 4300 is faster. Do you have an actual point somewhere?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tojara*
> 
> 760k has a TDP 5W higher, but AM3+ chipsets make the 4300 look less efficient.


Well, since it can't run on anything other than AM3+ chipsets...


----------



## drBlahMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Here's an 860 at 4.5 beating a 6800K (a 760 with a GPU) at 4.5 by 14.3 percent:


You mean *12.5%*, right?


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I was trying to get a good read on the differences between an 8 core vishera and the 860 , Damric suggested comparing against his score but he has a 7850 , and I don't.
> Could you tell me which 6970 you have and what the stock clocks were on the card when you made that run, and what the 860 was clocked at? I have a couple 6970's I could use - asus dc2 and a power color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the standard MSI R6970-2PM2D2GD5 model, not the Lightning. It was set at stock 880/1375 for all of the FFXIV benchmarks I've posted on this thread.
> 
> The 860K was set at 4.5 GHz (45*100) with the NB at default for the 3806 run. RAM was set at 2400 10-12-12-31-1T. I got 3842 on a later run with the NB at 2 GHz. Same rig that is in my sig, if you need more information than that.
Click to expand...

I set up my GD-80 / 8370e rig with the ASUS 6970 and tried to match your settings, more or less a draw in the FF heavensward bench.
Here's the SS , did I have things set properly? ( i couldn't match your ram speed and timings with the set i had available however)


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tojara*
> 
> 760k has a TDP 5W higher, but AM3+ chipsets make the 4300 look less efficient. The 4300 is faster. Do you have an actual point somewhere?


The FX-4300 is NOT faster than the 760K. Let's see YOUR FX-4300 benches. MY 760K will beat it.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I set up my GD-80 / 8370e rig with the ASUS 6970 and tried to match your settings, more or less a draw in the FF heavensward bench.
> Here's the SS , did I have things set properly? ( i couldn't match your ram speed and timings with the set i had available however)


Looks fine. I don't think there's much difference in FFXIV in RAM settings, and 1866 CAS 9 and 2400 CAS 10 should be reasonably close anyway.

It doesn't look like this game can make much (if any) use of more than four threads, otherwise you'd have stomped me with that 8320e. I should try running it sometime with only one core active per module, and see if it scales even to four threads.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you get a hankering to upgrade, hold off a few months. AMD should come out with a Godavari-based 870K Athlon that is likely to OC better than an 860K. They always come out a few months later than the new A10 version does.
> 
> An 860K can put a pretty good whipping on a 760K in some workloads, but there's no point in upgrading to an 860 at this point in the game, not with a better part right around the corner at the same price. Here's an 860 at 4.5 beating a 6800K (a 760 with a GPU) at 4.5 by 14.3 percent:


Just a note to say Asus is showing A88X-Pro support for AthlonX4 870K as a 3.9GHz part.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Just a note to say Asus is showing A88X-Pro support for AthlonX4 870K as a 3.9GHz part.


Good to know. If ASUS has it in their BIOS table already, that means AMD has confirmed the part's existence to them and that it is likely forthcoming in the very near future. Whether or not I pick one up depends on how well it overclocks, and I'll probably wait a few months and see if we get even better parts as Godavari production keeps ramping up.

BTW, I don't recommend anyone running an 860K on the A88X-PRO to upgrade past BIOS revision 1703 (the last pre-Godavari one) unless they're actually running Godavari. I did it and it completely messed up my system until I downgraded back to 1703. I made a thread in the "AMD BIOS" section about that misadventure. I won't be flashing any new BIOS to this unless I do get a Godavari chip.


----------



## ronnin426850

870K looks like a sweet upgrade from my 750K and 760K's, I may be buying it en masse







More L1 cache, I'm all for that


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I set up my GD-80 / 8370e rig with the ASUS 6970 and tried to match your settings, more or less a draw in the FF heavensward bench.
> Here's the SS , did I have things set properly? ( i couldn't match your ram speed and timings with the set i had available however)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks fine. I don't think there's much difference in FFXIV in RAM settings, and 1866 CAS 9 and 2400 CAS 10 should be reasonably close anyway.
> 
> It doesn't look like this game can make much (if any) use of more than four threads, otherwise you'd have stomped me with that 8320e. I should try running it sometime with only one core active per module, and see if it scales even to four threads.
Click to expand...

On 2 cores it was terrible , scaling from 2 to 4 was around 30% with slight gains going from 4 to 6 then to 8 cores. In the sterile enviornment of scientific testing, there may not have been much difference at all between 4 to 8 threads without all the background stuff running. But that's a bit removed from the real world.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



1 module ( load times were so bad I thought It crashed!)

2 modules

3 modules

4 modules




I tried overclocking the 6970 on the bench and the score scaled fairly directly to the clockspeed and memory OC's by percentage.

Probably the next step is to downclock the cpu and see what happens.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drBlahMan*
> 
> You mean *12.5%*, right?


4.24/3.71 = 1.143
3.71/4.24 = 0.875

As you like it...either way, the point is that Kaveri wins big over Richland in that particular benchmark. It also wins big in Passmark, and some of the 3DMark tests. Others have them closer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> On 2 cores it was terrible , scaling from 2 to 4 was around 30% with slight gains going from 4 to 6 then to 8 cores. In the sterile enviornment of scientific testing, there may not have been much difference at all between 4 to 8 threads without all the background stuff running. But that's a bit removed from the real world.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1 module ( load times were so bad I thought It crashed!)
> 
> 2 modules
> 
> 3 modules
> 
> 4 modules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried overclocking the 6970 on the bench and the score scaled fairly directly to the clockspeed and memory OC's by percentage.
> 
> Probably the next step is to downclock the cpu and see what happens.


Well, it looks like you tested it already. Looks like it definitely uses four and has little use for anything more than that. But I can't fault the devs for that. Any games should be targeted to an Intel quad these days, and I'm sure this is.

I looked at those scores and thought WTH, and then I saw those were run with a 780 in place of the 6970.

This is just another example of why people shouldn't be so quick to recommend the G3258 for cheap gaming. Newer games want more than just two threads, even if they're fast ones.


----------



## drBlahMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> 4.24/3.71 = 1.143
> 3.71/4.24 = 0.875
> 
> As you like it...either way, the point is that Kaveri wins big over Richland in that particular benchmark. It also wins big in Passmark, and some of the 3DMark tests. Others have them closer.
> Well, it looks like you tested it already. Looks like it definitely uses four and has little use for anything more than that. But I can't fault the devs for that. Any games should be targeted to an Intel quad these days, and I'm sure this is.


Not trippin' & I agree with you. I also agree with going with Intel (_almost invested in Kaveri_). Besides, the Intel setup has a better upgrade path.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drBlahMan*
> 
> You mean *12.5%*, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 4.24/3.71 = 1.143
> 3.71/4.24 = 0.875
> 
> As you like it...either way, the point is that Kaveri wins big over Richland in that particular benchmark. It also wins big in Passmark, and some of the 3DMark tests. Others have them closer.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> On 2 cores it was terrible , scaling from 2 to 4 was around 30% with slight gains going from 4 to 6 then to 8 cores. In the sterile enviornment of scientific testing, there may not have been much difference at all between 4 to 8 threads without all the background stuff running. But that's a bit removed from the real world.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 1 module ( load times were so bad I thought It crashed!)
> 
> 2 modules
> 
> 3 modules
> 
> 4 modules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried overclocking the 6970 on the bench and the score scaled fairly directly to the clockspeed and memory OC's by percentage.
> 
> Probably the next step is to downclock the cpu and see what happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it looks like you tested it already. Looks like it definitely uses four and has little use for anything more than that. But I can't fault the devs for that. Any games should be targeted to an Intel quad these days, and I'm sure this is.
> 
> I looked at those scores and thought WTH, and then I saw those were run with a 780 in place of the 6970.
> 
> This is just another example of why people shouldn't be so quick to recommend the G3258 for cheap gaming. Newer games want more than just two threads, even if they're fast ones.
Click to expand...

Anyone that recommends a 3258 for a gaming rig, really hasn't done much homework in my opinion. The Sandy and Ivy quads are irritatingly slow to me in the desktop envirornment, totally negating any advantage they might have otherwise.

Yeah those are from my daily driver - CHV-Z FX8370 780ti
8 cores at 2500mhz - just for giggles.


----------



## jsc1973

The FFXIV benchmark is GPU-limited on a 6970, no doubt about it. I went ahead and ran a couple of runs at 1200p Maximum, once with both modules active and only one execution core (both FPU's active), and one with one module fully active and one disabled. The results:


That one is both modules, only one execution core.


One module active, one inactive.

I got 3842 with a full 860K at 4.5, and you got 3863 with an 8320e, and those are a 3831 and a 3826. It doesn't seem to matter what you use for a CPU, that's all a 6970 can do. Give it more GPU grunt, though, and it can use that and it can use more CPU cores too.

I did notice a couple of places with the one full module where it stuttered a bit, while the one execution core per active module didn't do that. Still would be playable either way, though. And the load times, like you said, are much slower with only two cores available.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Anyone that recommends a 3258 for a gaming rig, really hasn't done much homework in my opinion. The Sandy and Ivy quads are irritatingly slow to me in the desktop envirornment, totally negating any advantage they might have otherwise.


I've noticed that too, and so have several others. They're beasts for gaming, but I'd honestly rather use this 860K for regular desktop use, let alone having an FX-8350 at my disposal, as I did for two years. I don't know why that should be, since everything says the Intels are faster in anything except heavy multithread. I've built a few Ivy machines, and always been underwhelmed at everything but their gaming prowess.

I never tell anyone to get a 3258 unless it's for an HTPC (and then, AM1 is a better choice for most), or they only want to play four-year-old games, and know that's all it will ever be used for. Not when you can get an 860K for $10 more and play anything.


----------



## damric

I wish there were more stand-alone benches like that. There's a few in the Guru3D DL area, but they either didn't work or didn't score.

If you guys own Far Cry 2, there's an extensive benchmark built into that game, and that game engine utilizes multicore very well despite being an older, DX10 game. The "Action Scene" is very good for testing CPU performance.


----------



## drmrlordx

I'm not sure it helps much, but The Talos Principle has a demo available through Steam (perhaps elsewhere) that has a benchmark mode available to anyone who finishes the little puzzle scenario included in the demo. It doesn't take very long to unlock the benchmark mode, and the benchmark will give you a framerate score. There are walkthroughs for the demo if you get stuck or if you just want to breeze through it as quickly as possible. Several youtubers did speed runs (you can ignore the ones that get all the hidden stars, those are just for kicks).


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The FFXIV benchmark is GPU-limited on a 6970, no doubt about it. I went ahead and ran a couple of runs at 1200p Maximum, once with both modules active and only one execution core (both FPU's active), and one with one module fully active and one disabled. The results:
> 
> 
> That one is both modules, only one execution core.
> 
> 
> One module active, one inactive.
> 
> I got 3842 with a full 860K at 4.5, and you got 3863 with an 8320e, and those are a 3831 and a 3826. It doesn't seem to matter what you use for a CPU, that's all a 6970 can do. Give it more GPU grunt, though, and it can use that and it can use more CPU cores too.
> 
> I did notice a couple of places with the one full module where it stuttered a bit, while the one execution core per active module didn't do that. Still would be playable either way, though. And the load times, like you said, are much slower with only two cores available.
> I've noticed that too, and so have several others. They're beasts for gaming, but I'd honestly rather use this 860K for regular desktop use, let alone having an FX-8350 at my disposal, as I did for two years. I don't know why that should be, since everything says the Intels are faster in anything except heavy multithread. I've built a few Ivy machines, and always been underwhelmed at everything but their gaming prowess.
> 
> I never tell anyone to get a 3258 unless it's for an HTPC (and then, AM1 is a better choice for most), or they only want to play four-year-old games, and know that's all it will ever be used for. Not when you can get an 860K for $10 more and play anything.


The 860K is slower than the G3258 in pretty much every game out there though?


----------



## camelback

Here's what I've got so far.

860k @ 4.2ghz 1.478v w/.03 offset
Asrock fatality MB
280x

This thing has been fantastic for bf4, pcars, and dirt ralley.

I do have a question though, the only way I could get this cpu stable above 4ghz is by not only raising the vcore but also using an offset. Is this OK, or in some way a big no-no?

I've monitored the max voltage and temps with overdrive and Aida and everything seems great. Any input is appreciated.

My voltage and offset might not be exact, I'll update tomorrow when I get home.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The 860K is slower than the G3258 in pretty much every game out there though?


Typically, the older the game engine, the better the Pentium will do. That's why I have a G3258 in my legacy gaming rig.

More modern game engines can make descent use of more cores, but there is still a ways to go for true multicore optimization. DX12 promises much, and I have no doubt that 6 or more logical cores will be used more in the future.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll run the FF bench on my Haswell i3 and Pentium. I'm in process of converting these machines to Windows 10 first. I'm certain that at least the i3 will score very well. The Pentium sometimes chokes very hard.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The 860K is slower than the G3258 in pretty much every game out there though?


Sure, the ones that it can actually run, or at least run properly.

The 860K can run every game, including new titles that insist on, or require, four threads to run. If you have a 3258 and try to run games like that, you're SOL.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Those were oversights and fixed and it was like 2 games.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *camelback*
> 
> Here's what I've got so far.
> 
> 860k @ 4.2ghz 1.478v w/.03 offset
> Asrock fatality MB
> 280x
> 
> This thing has been fantastic for bf4, pcars, and dirt ralley.
> 
> I do have a question though, the only way I could get this cpu stable above 4ghz is by not only raising the vcore but also using an offset. Is this OK, or in some way a big no-no?
> 
> I've monitored the max voltage and temps with overdrive and Aida and everything seems great. Any input is appreciated.
> 
> My voltage and offset might not be exact, I'll update tomorrow when I get home.


Using a lower vcore with offset is the way to go vs a static high vcore.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The 860K is slower than the G3258 in pretty much every game out there though?


Can you provide some proof of that?


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Those were oversights and fixed and it was like 2 games.


G3258 is still subpar in GTA V The Witcher 3 and still not quite compatible with DA:I. I mention these because I have sunk hundreds of hours to them the last 6 months.


----------



## Ketcchup

G3258 is one of the most overrated CPUs in the last years, if not the most.

In games like Arma 3 who uses only 2 threads is a beast. But when it runs games like AC Unity, Ryse, Watch Dogs, GTA V... oh boy, it's a nightmare full of stuttering and 9fps minimums.

860K and i3 are the only low cost viable options. 4.7Ghz are nothing if games need more threads.


----------



## camelback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Using a lower vcore with offset is the way to go vs a static high vcore.


Vcore is actually at 1.44, just check it.

So should I try to lower the vcore, or just leave it as is? Everything is stable and temps are just fine.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> G3258 is one of the most overrated CPUs in the last years, if not the most.
> 
> In games like Arma 3 who uses only 2 threads is a beast. But when it runs games like AC Unity, Ryse, Watch Dogs, GTA V... oh boy, it's a nightmare full of stuttering and 9fps minimums.
> 
> 860K and i3 are the only low cost viable options. 4.7Ghz are nothing if games need more threads.


Some people just can't be convinced of that. A dual-core is enough for basic, everyday use. I'm still using a 3.06 GHz Penryn from 2009 for my everyday laptop. For what I use it for, it might as well be a 5960X. But games have moved on and started making use of four threads. You can modify them to run on a 2c/2t chip, and if you OC the hell out of it, it might actually run the game. But there are going to be times when it can't process every thread quickly enough, and it's not going to be a good experience. You can OC the hell out of an 860K and it will get the job done, because it can execute four threads simultaneously.

The G3258 is the king of the three-year-old games. If that's what you want to play, have at it.


----------



## camelback

Is this a thread about the Pentium or 860k?


----------



## drmrlordx

3258 860k!


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *camelback*
> 
> Is this a thread about the Pentium or 860k?


It's relevent to compare to things in the same price range. As we have said, the Pentium is an excellent choise for older game engines. Currently the gaming sweet spot is 4 fast logical cores. The future will surely be more.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Dont know if anyone saw this article on Techspot,

http://www.techspot.com/review/1017-best-budget-gaming-cpu/page6.html

Interesting results on the G3258 vs the 860k. Very close overall with the G3258 taking it, you do definitely have to overclock the Athlon to nearly match the G3258. Also interesting to see the G3258 slightly ahead in the very latest games that supposedly require a quad Dragon Age Inquisition GTA V and The Witcher 3.

I would still lean towards the 860k right now because of the core advantage for possible future games, not to sure on Techspots bias either TBH. They do only show raw FPS results and dont talk about frame times for example.

You do have to consider that the G3258 allows a significant future upgrade to an I5/I7 whereas you are pretty much stuck with the Athlon on FM2+

As to the relevance of discussing the G3258, the thread is titled '' Athlon 860k, anyone picking it up? '' As Damric says, it seems perfectly acceptable to me to mention similarly priced alternatives


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Dont know if anyone saw this article on Techspot,
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/review/1017-best-budget-gaming-cpu/page6.html
> 
> Interesting results on the G3258 vs the 860k. Very close overall with the G3258 taking it, you do definitely have to overclock the Athlon to nearly match the G3258. Also interesting to see the G3258 slightly ahead in the very latest games that supposedly require a quad Dragon Age Inquisition GTA V and The Witcher 3.
> 
> I would still lean towards the 860k right now because of the core advantage for possible future games, not to sure on Techspots bias either TBH. They do only show raw FPS results and dont talk about frame times for example.
> 
> You do have to consider that the G3258 allows a significant future upgrade to an I5/I7 whereas you are pretty much stuck with the Athlon on FM2+
> 
> As to the relevance of discussing the G3258, the thread is titled '' Athlon 860k, anyone picking it up? '' As Damric says, it seems perfectly acceptable to me to mention similarly priced alternatives


I'd certainly like to see the test system, specidfically what motherboards and RAM were used.

Another thing I haven't mentioned in this thread lately is streaming/recording of games. These quads are inadequate for high quality. You really need as many logical cores as you can throw at it to keep from having a low quality blurry slideshow. So, if I was a streamer on a budget, I'd be looking at the FX 8300 models that go on sale from time to time for $100 (or even less). Even the i5s suck at this task, so obviosuly the Pentiums would totally fail. The "enthusiast" streamers are using Haswell Es.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I'd certainly like to see the test system, specidfically what motherboards and RAM were used.
> 
> Another thing I haven't mentioned in this thread lately is streaming/recording of games. These quads are inadequate for high quality. You really need as many logical cores as you can throw at it to keep from having a low quality blurry slideshow. So, if I was a streamer on a budget, I'd be looking at the FX 8300 models that go on sale from time to time for $100 (or even less). Even the i5s suck at this task, so obviosuly the Pentiums would totally fail. The "enthusiast" streamers are using Haswell Es.


On the first page they show the test systems, the same RAM and other system components apart from CPU/Mobo. I assume they chose the motherboards because they were similarly priced. Looks like a 4+2 VRM on the Asrock? It's also MATX which I'm sure isnt the greatest set up. I dont think it would be fair though to stick the 860k in a Crossblade ranger for example, it's twice the price of the Z97 Anniversary.

On the surface it looks like a fair test and I dont have any others to compare to, I was kind of hoping that someone would have their own benchmarks or could link another comparison between the two chips perhaps with more detailed information on the frame times or some comments on the actual _experience_ instead of just raw FPS numbers, which we know don't always tell the whole story.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> On the first page they show the test systems, the same RAM and other system components apart from CPU/Mobo. I assume they chose the motherboards because they were similarly priced. Looks like a 4+2 VRM on the Asrock? It's also MATX which I'm sure isnt the greatest set up. I dont think it would be fair though to stick the 860k in a Crossblade ranger for example, it's twice the price of the Z97 Anniversary.
> 
> On the surface it looks like a fair test and I dont have any others to compare to, I was kind of hoping that someone would have their own benchmarks or could link another comparison between the two chips perhaps with more detailed information on the frame times or some comments on the actual _experience_ instead of just raw FPS numbers, which we know don't always tell the whole story.


Well at least they used descent stuff for the Athlon. A lot of sites pair it with crappy DDR3-1600CL9.

Techspot also shows that a Haswell i3 beats an FX-9590 at every game...not that I disagree.

What it doesn't show is minimum FPS. That's the choke point for CPUs. Typically when the Pentium chokes, it chokes much worse, at least that's what mine does in games like Far Cry 3.


----------



## Horsemama1956

They probably had to go with Z97 on Intel because a cheaper board on the AMD side could have gimped the overclock. Unless your CPU is really crappy 4.4 on H81 is not a big deal and saves you about $40. The equivalent FM2+ board would be pushing it unless running stock on the 860K.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Well at least they used descent stuff for the Athlon. A lot of sites pair it with crappy DDR3-1600CL9.
> 
> Techspot also shows that a Haswell i3 beats an FX-9590 at every game...not that I disagree.
> 
> What it doesn't show is minimum FPS. That's the choke point for CPUs. Typically when the Pentium chokes, it chokes much worse, at least that's what mine does in games like Far Cry 3.


There are comparisons on Youtube that show the G3258 just flat out wins, Mins, Max and Avg(not by much mind you). GameGPU and a few others that do these tests also show the i3 beating the 9550\9570.

And I don't think anyone really cares about Far Cry 3 anymore lol.

If Zen finally fixes core efficiency, those Athlons will be very nice(hopefully AMD still price them at 80 or so).


----------



## Slink3Slyde

I've looked a lot at their game benchmark reviews over the last year or so for another thread and from what I can recall pretty sure they show it matching the Sandy+ I5's at stock quite a lot of the time. Depends on the game of course.

Fair point on the minimum FPS that would have been great to see in a test, a CPU pushing 3 FPS more when the game is mostly GPU limited at high FPS is worthless but if the minimum is 5-10 less when the CPU is struggling, not great.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> They probably had to go with Z97 on Intel because a cheaper board on the AMD side could have gimped the overclock. Unless your CPU is really crappy 4.4 on H81 is not a big deal and saves you about $40. The equivalent FM2+ board would be pushing it unless running stock on the 860K.
> There are comparisons on Youtube that show the G3258 just flat out wins, Mins, Max and Avg(not by much mind you). GameGPU and a few others that do these tests also show the i3 beating the 9550\9570.


It's a fair point about the motherboard I think, Pentium doesnt need much in the way of power delivery although I guess you need a BIOS update for H81 to get it to work.

Frankly though I dont bother with Youtube reviewers, most of them seem useless or biased and GameGPU's results are all over the place a lot of the time. I'd trust someone here with both chips and benchies more.


----------



## drmrlordx

If you try overclocking a G3258 "on the cheap" with H81 and the like (read: something other than Z87/Z97), you get no RAM overclocking capability and typically get vcore limitations of 1.2v-1.25v. At that point it's a question of silicon lottery. Some G3258s will do 4.4-4.5 or higher at that voltage, and some struggle to push past 4.1. VRMs are never an issue with the little things.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> If you try overclocking a G3258 "on the cheap" with H81 and the like (read: something other than Z87/Z97), you get no RAM overclocking capability and typically get vcore limitations of 1.2v-1.25v. At that point it's a question of silicon lottery. Some G3258s will do 4.4-4.5 or higher at that voltage, and some struggle to push past 4.1. VRMs are never an issue with the little things.


If youre going to get similar performance to an Athlon at that level though and also save the money it might be worth it if you're on an uber budget, 40 more to a GPU can get you the next tier up. I'm just wondering how limiting the dual core is, as I say when you consider minimum frames and frame times in games that 'require' a quad.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> If you try overclocking a G3258 "on the cheap" with H81 and the like (read: something other than Z87/Z97), you get no RAM overclocking capability and typically get vcore limitations of 1.2v-1.25v. At that point it's a question of silicon lottery. Some G3258s will do 4.4-4.5 or higher at that voltage, and some struggle to push past 4.1. VRMs are never an issue with the little things.
> 
> 
> 
> If youre going to get similar performance to an Athlon at that level though and also save the money it might be worth it if you're on an uber budget, 40 more to a GPU can get you the next tier up. I'm just wondering how limiting the dual core is, as I say when you consider minimum frames and frame times in games that 'require' a quad.
Click to expand...

If I could disable cores on one of my I 7 rigs - would it be an accurate representation of the G3258? I have Sandy,Ivy and Devils canyone chips to chose from, which is closest?


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> If I could disable cores on one of my I 7 rigs - would it be an accurate representation of the G3258? I have Sandy,Ivy and Devils canyone chips to chose from, which is closest?


Still wouldn't be apples to apples comparison, i7 still have extra L3 cache, more supported instruction sets etc


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Still wouldn't be apples to apples comparison, i7 still have extra L3 cache, more supported instruction sets etc


I wouldnt know exactly how much effect the level 3 has although I'm guessing some








. I dont think the newer instruction sets should effect gaming benchmarks to much though, they dont appear to make much difference between Sandy, Ivy, Haswell at the same clocks from gaming benchmarks generally.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> If I could disable cores on one of my I 7 rigs - would it be an accurate representation of the G3258? I have Sandy,Ivy and Devils canyone chips to chose from, which is closest?


Yes! If youre up for it, I would be very interested to see how the 4790k with HT and cores disabled and turbo off, at say 4.0 Ghz would do. Fairly close to a G3258 at 4.2ish at a guesstimate? Would be great to see someone test an Athlon 860k at around 4.4 with a similar rig on the same games certainly. In games like Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4 and The Witcher 3 that state they require a quad core would be ideal.

Minimum frame rates and slowdowns especially as Damric suggested earlier but also 'feel' counts, I know thats hard to communicate on the internet heh, I'm guessing people dont generally have the kit at home to do detailed frame time analysis


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> If I could disable cores on one of my I 7 rigs - would it be an accurate representation of the G3258? I have Sandy,Ivy and Devils canyone chips to chose from, which is closest?
> 
> 
> 
> Still wouldn't be apples to apples comparison, i7 still have extra L3 cache, more supported instruction sets etc
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slink3Slyde*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Still wouldn't be apples to apples comparison, i7 still have extra L3 cache, more supported instruction sets etc
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt know exactly how much effect the level 3 has although I'm guessing some
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I dont think the newer instruction sets should effect gaming benchmarks to much though, they dont appear to make much difference between Sandy, Ivy, Haswell at the same clocks from gaming benchmarks generally.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> If I could disable cores on one of my I 7 rigs - would it be an accurate representation of the G3258? I have Sandy,Ivy and Devils canyone chips to chose from, which is closest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes! If youre up for it, I would be very interested to see how the 4790k with HT and cores disabled and turbo off, at say 4.0 Ghz would do. Fairly close to a G3258 at 4.2ish at a guesstimate? Would be great to see someone test an Athlon 860k at around 4.4 with a similar rig on the same games certainly. In games like Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4 and The Witcher 3 that state they require a quad core would be ideal.
> 
> Minimum frame rates and slowdowns especially as Damric suggested earlier but also 'feel' counts, I know thats hard to communicate on the internet heh, I'm guessing people dont generally have the kit at home to do detailed frame time analysis
Click to expand...

So it would most closely resemble the DC? If so, the object would be to knock it down to 2 logical cores without HT, yes? The DC rig has a 7970 in it at the moment, that would be very similar to the 280X in your machine, wouldn't it phreak?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I'd certainly like to see the test system, specidfically what motherboards and RAM were used.
> 
> Another thing I haven't mentioned in this thread lately is streaming/recording of games. These quads are inadequate for high quality. You really need as many logical cores as you can throw at it to keep from having a low quality blurry slideshow. So, if I was a streamer on a budget, I'd be looking at the FX 8300 models that go on sale from time to time for $100 (or even less). Even the i5s suck at this task, so obviosuly the Pentiums would totally fail. The "enthusiast" streamers are using Haswell Es.


True. If you want to do streaming on the cheap, grab an 8320e or 8310. Eight threads make a world of difference when you're doing that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> What it doesn't show is minimum FPS. That's the choke point for CPUs. Typically when the Pentium chokes, it chokes much worse, at least that's what mine does in games like Far Cry 3.


Which is why a lot of reviews are completely worthless. Minimum FPS is the only thing that really matters. It doesn't matter if it runs 200 FPS if it gets to a point later on and plummets to 13 or something. And these sites that just give you the average aren't worth reading.

The reason why the 4690K is the sweet spot for gaming is because it never does stuff like that.


----------



## Slink3Slyde

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> So it would most closely resemble the DC? If so, the object would be to knock it down to 2 logical cores without HT, yes? The DC rig has a 7970 in it at the moment, that would be very similar to the 280X in your machine, wouldn't it phreak?


Considering theyre the same architecture I would think so, I dont think level 3 makes all that much difference considering the I7's vs I5's in gaming are barely any different most of the time. 7970 and 280x at the same clocks are the same of course. I think you might be on to something.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> So it would most closely resemble the DC? If so, the object would be to knock it down to 2 logical cores without HT, yes? The DC rig has a 7970 in it at the moment, that would be very similar to the 280X in your machine, wouldn't it phreak?


I would say so, if anything I could always lower the OC to match a stock 7970 as they are otherwise identical


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> So it would most closely resemble the DC? If so, the object would be to knock it down to 2 logical cores without HT, yes? The DC rig has a 7970 in it at the moment, that would be very similar to the 280X in your machine, wouldn't it phreak?
> 
> 
> 
> I would say so, if anything I could always lower the OC to match a stock 7970 as they are otherwise identical
Click to expand...

All I have time for tonight
4790k all 8 threads at 4.4ghz locked, stock 7970


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> True. If you want to do streaming on the cheap, grab an 8320e or 8310. Eight threads make a world of difference when you're doing that.
> Which is why a lot of reviews are completely worthless. Minimum FPS is the only thing that really matters. It doesn't matter if it runs 200 FPS if it gets to a point later on and plummets to 13 or something. And these sites that just give you the average aren't worth reading.
> 
> The reason why the 4690K is the sweet spot for gaming is because it never does stuff like that.


The minimums are going to be similar though. While the Athlons can process 4 threads, they're basically weak unlocked i3's. Also you are probably not going to get super high max fps on these types of CPUs, so AVG is generally good enough. 4 Threads at half the efficiency isn't going to amount to much. Both the Pentium and Athlon are going to be maxed in newer games, with CMT in AMD causing bottlenecks(and loss of performance) with high usage.


----------



## kzone75

Picked up an Asus A88X-Gamer motherboard to replace my Gigabyte F2A88XM-WiFi, because this looked kind of silly:



Much better now IMO.



I'm in







with the UEFI on the Asus. Will definitely try to go higher this weekend.







http://valid.x86.fr/t6cxxc


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> So it would most closely resemble the DC? If so, the object would be to knock it down to 2 logical cores without HT, yes? The DC rig has a 7970 in it at the moment, that would be very similar to the 280X in your machine, wouldn't it phreak?
> 
> 
> 
> I would say so, if anything I could always lower the OC to match a stock 7970 as they are otherwise identical
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All I have time for tonight
> 4790k all 8 threads at 4.4ghz locked, stock 7970
Click to expand...

1 core 1 thread - easy to see why some people are convinced extra cores don't help in gaming with results like this benchmark gives.



As always , it depends on the game/resolution/lod etc.

EDIT

2core 2 threads


----------



## RaduZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> The minimums are going to be similar though. While the Athlons can process 4 threads, they're basically weak unlocked i3's. Also you are probably not going to get super high max fps on these types of CPUs, so AVG is generally good enough. 4 Threads at half the efficiency isn't going to amount to much. Both the Pentium and Athlon are going to be maxed in newer games, with CMT in AMD causing bottlenecks(and loss of performance) with high usage.


I don't agree with that, I have a A10-7850K (@4.4Ghz) in witcher 3 on high I barley get above 60% usage on all cores, with my R9 285. 4 cores(strong as they are **not**) are better than 2. Would I get better performance with the same card on a unlocked I5 ? Sure but how mutch? And is it worth it? I do think the 860K is the default best buy for entry level PC's. You get a lot of bang for your buck.

(I know it's only 1 ss but I just put it there so you won't say I am talking out of my but)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Just a note to say Asus is showing A88X-Pro support for AthlonX4 870K as a 3.9GHz part.


They've had it on their list for a couple months now.







Same thing on the Crossblade Ranger's cpu support list. I've been google'ing every day waiting for the 870k to pop up for sale.







Looking to move away from my 7850k to get the 870k + dedicated gpu. I assume the 870k will be soldered like the 7870k is.

On a random note: I bought GTAV last night (first GTA game I've ever played - it's hilarious) and my 7850k runs it very smoothly @ 1600x900 res.


----------



## VordaVor

Hi guys!

I've been following this thread for months now, as I have Athlon 860k and was interested in your experiences on overclocking and stuff.
Unfortunately, when I bough this PC, my PC vendor sold me this crappy mobo (GB-F2A88XM-DS2), instead of G1 Sniper that I ordered, because the Snipers price went up too much.

Anyway, this mobo makes some serious coil whine and is a poor overclocker duo to not having heatsinks around VRMs, but I finally have the money to buy me a Crossblade Ranger.

Tell me guys, who already own a XBR, have you experienced any coil whine from it ? This Non-audible frequency that makes you not want to be around the PC and makes you sick ?? So far I've only encountered 1 review here that gave the Ranger a lower score, only because of the coil whine. There are samples to what I'm talking about in the link.

Anyway, I am going to take a risk and buy a Ranger, because I don't feel comfortable with this mobo at all for many reasons and because I would seriously like to play around overclocking this great chip.

So far I've only OC-ed CPU nothbridge, because my RAM was 2400 Mhz and I read that it's good to OC CPUNB when OCing RAM + I had random system freezes and found out it's connected to memory. The problem is, this mobo's default voltages for CPUNB are ridiculous, it's 1,375 (according to AMDOverdrive NB VID) and from what I've read here, you guys are in 1,1 heaven.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> I've been following this thread for months now, as I have Athlon 860k and was interested in your experiences on overclocking and stuff.
> Unfortunately, when I bough this PC, my PC vendor sold me this crappy mobo (GB-F2A88XM-DS2), instead of G1 Sniper that I ordered, because the Snipers price went up too much.
> 
> Anyway, this mobo makes some serious coil whine and is a poor overclocker duo to not having heatsinks around VRMs, but I finally have the money to buy me a Crossblade Ranger.
> 
> Tell me guys, who already own a XBR, have you experienced any coil whine from it ? This Non-audible frequency that makes you not want to be around the PC and makes you sick ?? So far I've only encountered 1 review here that gave the Ranger a lower score, only because of the coil whine. There are samples to what I'm talking about in the link.
> 
> Anyway, I am going to take a risk and buy a Ranger, because I don't feel comfortable with this mobo at all for many reasons and because I would seriously like to play around overclocking this great chip.
> 
> So far I've only OC-ed CPU nothbridge, because my RAM was 2400 Mhz and I read that it's good to OC CPUNB when OCing RAM + I had random system freezes and found out it's connected to memory. The problem is, this mobo's default voltages for CPUNB are ridiculous, it's 1,375 (according to AMDOverdrive NB VID) and from what I've read here, you guys are in 1,1 heaven.


Welcome. Yes, lots to learn here as this has become the unofficial Athlon 860K Owners Club. Certainly a better motherboard may help, but also clean power from a PSU with low ripple can have a huge effect on overclocking (and coil whine). I dare say for low power processors like this, a tight filtering PSU is even more important than getting a motherboard with more phases. You can always make your own VRM heatsink, too.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Welcome. Yes, lots to learn here as this has become the unofficial Athlon 860K Owners Club. Certainly a better motherboard may help, but also clean power from a PSU with low ripple can have a huge effect on overclocking (and coil whine). I dare say for low power processors like this, a tight filtering PSU is even more important than getting a motherboard with more phases. You can always make your own VRM heatsink, too.


Anything you can do to deliver clean power to Kaveri, and presumably to Godavari, is going to make a difference. These chips are much more sensitive to any kind of fluctuations or instability in the 12v DC they receive. The old AM3 Stars Athlons could run on complete crap motherboards and PSU's (not that you should do this), but good luck doing that with Kaveri.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Hi guys!
> Tell me guys, who already own a XBR, have you experienced any coil whine from it ? This Non-audible frequency that makes you not want to be around the PC and makes you sick ?? So far I've only encountered 1 review here that gave the Ranger a lower score, only because of the coil whine. There are samples to what I'm talking about in the link.
> 
> So far I've only OC-ed CPU nothbridge, because my RAM was 2400 Mhz and I read that it's good to OC CPUNB when OCing RAM + I had random system freezes and found out it's connected to memory. The problem is, this mobo's default voltages for CPUNB are ridiculous, it's 1,375 (according to AMDOverdrive NB VID) and from what I've read here, you guys are in 1,1 heaven.


Coil whine is something you don't see very much anymore except in total crap motherboards, unless something else is wrong. I've never seen or heard of a Crossblade Ranger having this issue outside of that review, and they claim to have had the problem with two different boards. I don't know what was going on, but something else was very likely going on to cause that problem. It probably wasn't the PSU unless the "Hale 82" they used in the testing was the "Hale 82 N" model from an inferior OEM, instead of the Hale 82 (no N) made by SeaSonic. If it was the Hale 82 N, they should be ashamed of themselves. PCPer's review on the XBR even talked about how they went out of their way to eliminate any coil whine.

Anyway, if you get a XBR and it's doing that, either something else is wrong or it's a defective board, and ASUS should replace it. It's made too well to be a whiner.

There's no way a CPUNB should be running at 1.375v. That is ridiculous, if correct, and it's very unhealthy for the chip. Can you check that in the BIOS, and see if you can lower it if it is that high? It could be that OverDrive is just mis-reading the voltage. That program was designed for Stars chips and hasn't been updated in a long time. It reports the CPUNB voltage more or less correctly on my A88X-PRO (I have it set for 1.15 and OD reports about 1.138), but is way off on my CPU voltage at full load, reporting 1.40v when I'm actually at about 1.51.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Welcome. Yes, lots to learn here as this has become the unofficial Athlon 860K Owners Club. Certainly a better motherboard may help, but also clean power from a PSU with low ripple can have a huge effect on overclocking (and coil whine). I dare say for low power processors like this, a tight filtering PSU is even more important than getting a motherboard with more phases. You can always make your own VRM heatsink, too.


Thanks.
I had a different PSU first and replaced it with this one, back when I thought PSU was causing thecoil whine. Man was I mistaken.
I can understand that certain PSU can contribute to the problem, but the fact is, the noise is coming from chokes around the CPU, not directly from PSU, which I didn't know at first so I immediately changed my PSU.
Now I have a large notebook covering the top of my casing, that dampens the annoying frequency to about 30-40% intensity, but still, it creates some really problematic tinitus problems.

Regarding creating my own VRM heatsinks, I can't find those little heatsinks that you glue onto stuff, anywhere in my country, unfortunately.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Anyway, if you get a XBR and it's doing that, either something else is wrong or it's a defective board, and ASUS should replace it. It's made too well to be a whiner.
> 
> There's no way a CPUNB should be running at 1.375v. That is ridiculous, if correct, and it's very unhealthy for the chip. Can you check that in the BIOS, and see if you can lower it if it is that high? It could be that OverDrive is just mis-reading the voltage. That program was designed for Stars chips and hasn't been updated in a long time. It reports the CPUNB voltage more or less correctly on my A88X-PRO (I have it set for 1.15 and OD reports about 1.138), but is way off on my CPU voltage at full load, reporting 1.40v when I'm actually at about 1.51.


I hope you are right regarding the XBR, cause I too have read that XBR was designed not to have that problem. Maybe it was a PSU issue with that reviewer after all, I will know for certain when I get the XBR myself.

I don't know if this is the issue with every GigaByte bios, but mine shows current values ONLY for CPU V core and DRAM voltage, thats it. For the rest I have to use Overdrive. I can give more voltage to CPU NB, but I can't see the current value in bios.
Yeah I'm guessing AMD OD is bugged somehow with this mobo or something.

One other thing I experience with this motherboard, is when I do prime95 stress test, the CPU area makes this very very loud noise, similar to the other problem I have (but 3 times louder), when moving mouse, I can hear the CPU make noise, but it goes away once I start up some programs. Really strange, can't wait to change the board.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Tell me guys, who already own a XBR, have you experienced any coil whine from it ? This Non-audible frequency that makes you not want to be around the PC and makes you sick ?? So far I've only encountered 1 review here that gave the Ranger a lower score, only because of the coil whine. There are samples to what I'm talking about in the link.
> 
> Anyway, I am going to take a risk and buy a Ranger, because I don't feel comfortable with this mobo at all for many reasons and because I would seriously like to play around overclocking this great chip.


My Crossblade Ranger doesn't have that issue. For whatever reason, my SoftSense fw was blocking that review link but anyway....the Ranger is built like a BEAST my friend. High quality components all-around. Post in the official Ranger thread after you pick it up.


----------



## Scorpion49

I finally got around to putting together my "office machine" with the 860K. I've been sitting on the RAM and CPU for a while but I just decided on a motherboard finally, and went with the MSI A88XM-E45 V2.

Outgoing system:
- C2D E6500 2.93ghz
- 4GB DDR2 667mhz
- MSI G31TM-P21 (lol, this board is literally the lowest quality PC part I've ever seen)
- HD 5450 512MB passive
- Antec VP630F PSU
- Seagate 1TB which sounds like a top fuel dragster mated with a chainsaw

New build:
- Athlon 860k
- 8GB Silicon Power DDR3 2400mhz
- MSI A88XM-E45 V2
- 240GB OCZ Arc 100 SSD

I saved the PSU and the GPU for now, I'll be getting something better for the GPU tomorrow most likely, going to run to Microcenter and pick up a new case as well. The old Acer mATX case from ~2004 isn't really cutting it any more (it was originally an Athlon XP 2000+, so powerful, much wow). I also managed to dig an AMD FX series HSF from the closet, I think it went to an FX 8320 but never used. Way better than the tiny all aluminum crap they give with the 860k. So far I've gotten to installing Windows 7 and setting the RAM to the XMP setting, seems to run just fine at 2400mhz, but we'll see if it holds up. I'd like to get 4.0-4.2ghz out of this thing 24/7 as it will also be my backup gaming rig.

Here is a crummy pic of the two setups (I decided to change the HDD for the SSD after I started to install Windows, way too slow):


----------



## Darklyric

I'd say you might not even have to touch the voltage to hit 4-4.2 but it all depends. An octocore hs+fan should give you a little room for overvolting as well. Just dont get to crazy with prime95 ect


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> I'd say you might not even have to touch the voltage to hit 4-4.2 but it all depends. An octocore hs+fan should give you a little room for overvolting as well. Just dont get to crazy with prime95 ect


Well I already got crazy, the MSI board was giving me issues so I returned it and went with an XBR (open box for the same price I paid for the MSI, woot) and I found that I had a Hyper 212+ EVO in the closet that I never used so that went on it. Right now I'm in the middle of testing, but its running 4.4ghz at 1.375V with 2000mhz NB and 2400mhz RAM perfectly stable.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well I already got crazy, the MSI board was giving me issues so I returned it and went with an XBR (open box for the same price I paid for the MSI, woot) and I found that I had a Hyper 212+ EVO in the closet that I never used so that went on it. Right now I'm in the middle of testing, but its running 4.4ghz at 1.375V with 2000mhz NB and 2400mhz RAM perfectly stable.


Not bad at all. I needed over 1.4 to get a stable 4.4 GHz on mine, with the same NB and RAM settings.

The 212 Evo should be plenty for that chip. Most 860K's don't run hot even when overclocked, within reason.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Not bad at all. I needed over 1.4 to get a stable 4.4 GHz on mine, with the same NB and RAM settings.
> 
> The 212 Evo should be plenty for that chip. Most 860K's don't run hot even when overclocked, within reason.


Yeah, it runs pretty cool, doing H264 encoding for a stress test I was seeing 32* thermal margins even after 2-3 hours. I also managed to snag an R9 290X refurb for $239 when I was at microcenter so it can do some serious work. Tossed everything in my old S340 since I moved the X99 rig to a new Corsair Air 540, I'll try and post a pic of it sometime this week (looks pretty darn good with all the red).


----------



## Rabit

Ok I swap my X4 740 @ 4.5Ghz to X4 860k 4.4Ghz 60C * at 4.5ghz my cpu cooler have problems and I have throttling.
CPU Vcore I still need find lowest stable, but under stress drooping to 1,464 V
And CPU temps under small FFT are lower compared to Large FFT hm....
http://valid.x86.fr/der38t



Geek bench

X4 740 4,5Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2944064
X4 860k 4.4Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2946605


----------



## damric

There just isn't enough metal on that TX2 to cool a quad.


----------



## Scorpion49

I'm attempting to resurrect my CM Glacer 240L and see where I can get under water with this little guy. I love expensive AIO coolers that are filled with gunk and nasty crap from the factory, causing extreme pump noise and (very) premature failure. I learned my lesson with the H220 which is the same thing, took only a month for it to seize up and die completely. This one started making the same noise and I managed to get at it and clean/refill with some decent coolant before the bearing was damaged.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Ok I swap my X4 740 @ 4.5Ghz to X4 860k 4.4Ghz 60C * at 4.5ghz my cpu cooler have problems and I have throttling.
> CPU Vcore I still need find lowest stable, but under stress drooping to 1,464 V
> And CPU temps under small FFT are lower compared to Large FFT hm....
> http://valid.x86.fr/der38t
> 
> 
> 
> Geek bench
> 
> X4 740 4,5Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2944064
> X4 860k 4.4Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2946605


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> There just isn't enough metal on that TX2 to cool a quad.


I have to agree with Damric. No way that cooler is good for a 100 watt cpu. Let alone overclocking with it.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Ok I swap my X4 740 @ 4.5Ghz to X4 860k 4.4Ghz 60C * at 4.5ghz my cpu cooler have problems and I have throttling.
> CPU Vcore I still need find lowest stable, but under stress drooping to 1,464 V
> And CPU temps under small FFT are lower compared to Large FFT hm....
> http://valid.x86.fr/der38t
> 
> 
> 
> Geek bench
> 
> X4 740 4,5Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2944064
> X4 860k 4.4Ghz http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2946605


http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2952333

For comparison, however that was the 32 bit bench on windows 7, dunno how much it matters


----------



## burninator

Wrong thread


----------



## chrisjames61

Messing around this morning. Just got a Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 to play with. I have actually had more success overclocking an 860K in this board than the ones I have in my Crossblade Ranger or my A88X-PRO. There are certainly less options as far as tweaking the voltage settings in the Gigabyte board than the ASUS boards. Especially the Crossblade Ranger. This may have worked to my advantage as there is less for me to screw up lol!


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I have to agree with Damric. No way that cooler is good for a 100 watt cpu. Let alone overclocking with it.


I diseagre my X4 860K @ 4.4Ghz after 2H Prime95 * large FFT hit 60C * AMD Overdrive shows average 13C with min 12,2 Thermal margin
On Small FFT thermal margins is larger.
Of course more OC will require better cooler, this TX 2 remember my old 939 socket


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> I diseagre my X4 860K @ 4.4Ghz after 2H Prime95 * large FFT hit 60C * AMD Overdrive shows average 13C with min 12,2 Thermal margin
> On Small FFT thermal margins is larger.
> Of course more OC will require better cooler, this TX 2 remember my old 939 socket


I disagree again. 12.2 Thermal margin is next to non existant. That and the fact that cooler is from socket 939 days when there were only dual cores.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> I diseagre my X4 860K @ 4.4Ghz after 2H Prime95 * large FFT hit 60C * AMD Overdrive shows average 13C with min 12,2 Thermal margin
> On Small FFT thermal margins is larger.
> Of course more OC will require better cooler, this TX 2 remember my old 939 socket


I feel safer with this.


----------



## Rebellion88

How does this cpu perform playing games like bf4 or witcher 3 or gta v? Also what graphics card is it best paired with without bottlenecking?


----------



## Rabit

hm... paying almost this same price for CPU Cooler than I pay for CPU + Mobo - no way








I pay for almost new mobo 27$ *former owner cannot post inside case * ( short-circuit inside case) + invoice 2years warranty








CPU cost me 56$ * Former owner buy and do not upgrade bios on mobo before plug in this CPU * and surprise CPU do not work








* On Internet auctions you can find similar treasures


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> How does this cpu perform playing games like bf4 or witcher 3 or gta v? Also what graphics card is it best paired with without bottlenecking?


If you OC X4 860k @4.4Ghz -4.5Gz.
1080P
R9 280/285/380 / GTX 960 will be no limited to much.
In BF4 + mantle API you will see significant bost when you use this CPU + R9 on DX11 you will be low fps..
Ultra detail in Witcher Nvidia GTX 970 OC min 37 avg 44FPS on AMD R9 290x 19 -30 FPS
Source: * This bench was created on first path now Witcher get some new optimization paths








http://pclab.pl/art63116-48.html
http://pclab.pl/art63116-47.html

On BF4 Ultra detail with Nvidia GPU will be around 45FPS and similar on AMD GPU when you use Mantle


----------



## Scorpion49

Heres my little rig now, moved to the full loop (forgot I had an EK AMD LT block somewhere) so now I'm going to try for 4.6-4.8 on this chip.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> hm... paying almost this same price for CPU Cooler than I pay for CPU + Mobo - no way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I pay for almost new mobo 27$ *former owner cannot post inside case * ( short-circuit inside case) + invoice 2years warranty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU cost me 56$ * Former owner buy and do not upgrade bios on mobo before plug in this CPU * and surprise CPU do not work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * On Internet auctions you can find similar treasures


I literally have about twenty AM3, AM3+, FM2 and FM2+ rigs so I am constantly swapping parts. Tomorrow that NH-D14 could be cooling anything from a Sempron 145 to a 8350. No different then the guy above with a custom loop cooling his 860K. I rather have headroom than bringing a knife to a gunfight.


----------



## Rabit

I know that Noctua have very nice Air coolers, but this prices








If I find better and Cheap CPU cooler I buy it and swap








But really buying new CPU Cooler only to get additional 10% OC on CPU, is not best solution








On other side I do not think thing that my mobo can support more than 4.5Ghz OC on this CPU







3+2 Phase VRM


----------



## maltamonk

I've been thinking about upgrading an old core 2 quad e8200 with either this or the pentium. Tbh I know almost nothing about amd boards. I'm shooting for low costs as it's a portable lender rig. Is there anything I need to consider about the boards and OC'ing the 860k?


----------



## Rabit

To solid OC you need at lest 4+2 Phase VRM with heatsinks, on my 3+2 Phase I need bump voltages a lot higher to be stable.

Probably best mobo for money will be A88X-PLUS https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/A88XPLUS/

Or if you really want throw away more money:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Overclocking Kaveri APUs depends a lot on the quality of the power supplied to the CPU. According to The Stilt, Asus boards (and some Gigabyte high end boards) are the best because of the digital VRM control and low voltage variability under load.
> 
> I currently have a Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X (relatively weak power section) and a A10-7870k, and it's marginally stable on stock voltage (1.4875V) at 4.3GHz. Other people get 4.7+ GHz with that voltage but they have better motherboards. My experience is that after stock frequencies, you need too much voltage for each additional frequency step.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, any motherboard that came out before Kaveri came out is not a good choice for overclocking. The best options are Asus Crossblade Ranger, Asus A88x-PRO or Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4. Asus A88X-GAMER is potentially a good choice for less money.


But everything depends how high you want OC for example on my A88XM-A I have now stable at 4.4Ghz maybe I can achieve 4,5Ghz but not more








But I install hestsinks to achieve this


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> But everything depends how high you want OC for example on my A88XM-A I have now stable at 4.4Ghz maybe I can achieve 4,5Ghz but not more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I install hestsinks to achieve this


G1.Sniper already has a heatsink, but it did not really help. I have a better cooler than yours, but it still did not help (temperature was never the issue). 5 x 12cm case fans.

A10-7870k should have a 200 to 300MHz advantage for the same voltage vs the 7850k, but in my case it would not run at more than 4200MHz @ 1.45V. Athlon x4 750K also required quite a lot of voltage to be stable @ 4GHz.

How to you test the OC stability? Did you ever run prime95 stability test all the way to the end (I think around 18 hours)? How about a couple of hours of x265 encoding?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Athlon x4 750K also required quite a lot of voltage to be stable @ 4GHz.


All 750K's that I ever saw were a PITA to overclock. 760K's will go right to 4.7 or even 4.8 with good cooling, but Trinity chips didn't OC very well. When the first 860's dropped, I advised people not to buy, because the early ones seemed to have trouble even passing 4.2 on 6+2 boards, and 760K at 4.8 was a better choice. When the 860's started getting 4.5 consistently, that changed the game. A 760 has to hit 5 GHz to compete with that, and there's no way you could ever do that on a 750.

As far as cooling these, a 212 or something in that class is almost always enough; they're good up to about 150W TDP. This one I have runs unusually hot for an 860K, and even so, it holds up fine with the Megahalems. Thermal margin dropped as low as 4.9C under a long P95 run at 4.5, but stayed stable.


----------



## kxnxng

Mine simply wont go over 4.35~Ghz stable with a Crossblade, so u gotta be lucky in the chip department too.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> How to you test the OC stability? Did you ever run prime95 stability test all the way to the end (I think around 18 hours)? How about a couple of hours of x265 encoding?


I put Prime 95 on night around 12h and run few time Frybench * is very good to show OC instability.

I previous ruining on this mobo x4 740 @ 4,48 1,45V 1,4 under load ( before I install heat-sinks was 1,525 - 1,396).
FSB 140 * max on this mobo higher is locked


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> I put Prime 95 on night around 12h and run few time Frybench * is very good to show OC instability.
> 
> I previous ruining on this mobo x4 740 @ 4,48 1,45V 1,4 under load ( before I install heat-sinks was 1,525 - 1,396).
> FSB 140 * max on this mobo higher is locked


Go outside right now and get a lottery ticket







. That's really good.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Mine simply wont go over 4.35~Ghz stable with a Crossblade, so u gotta be lucky in the chip department too.


I have a Crossblade Ranger. Had a 860K and now an A10-7870K in it. I certainly would ditch that 750K and put a better cpu in it. Especially seeing how cheap the 860K is.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I have a Crossblade Ranger. Had a 860K and now an A10-7870K in it. I certainly would ditch that 750K and put a better cpu in it. Especially seeing how cheap the 860K is.


This is with a 860k.

Im gonna remount my cooler and do a full rebuild and adding some fans to my case, hopefully it will get me to 4.5ghz.


----------



## coffeerox

Sup guys, new guy here! I recently picked up an 860K, paired it up with an Asus A88X-Pro and cooling it w/ the Hyper 212 Evo. I can get 4.2ghz at the right voltage and has decent thermal margin left over. At 4.3ghz though, I have to adjust the Digi VRM settings for extreme and when I can finally run P95 on it, I find that my thermal margin disappears. How is it that people are getting 4.4 and 4.5?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Sup guys, new guy here! I recently picked up an 860K, paired it up with an Asus A88X-Pro and cooling it w/ the Hyper 212 Evo. I can get 4.2ghz at the right voltage and has decent thermal margin left over. At 4.3ghz though, I have to adjust the Digi VRM settings for extreme and when I can finally run P95 on it, I find that my thermal margin disappears. How is it that people are getting 4.4 and 4.5?


If you set the LLC to extreme you are probably over volting the cpu and have skyrocketing temps. I like to keep the vcore at the stock level. Add like .12v using the + offset and the set LLC to medium. At 4.6 GHz my thermal margin low is 22 C running Prime95 Torture Test for two hours.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> If you set the LLC to extreme you are probably over volting the cpu and have skyrocketing temps. I like to keep the vcore at the stock level. Add like .12v using the + offset and the set LLC to medium. At 4.6 GHz my thermal margin low is 22 C running Prime95 Torture Test for two hours.


+ 1 for LLC at medium (for detailed explanation see here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/70#post_23965006)


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> + 1 for LLC at medium (for detailed explanation see here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/70#post_23965006)


The Stilt, enough said.... Lol!


----------



## coffeerox

Would you guys recommend the use of AI Suite III? I've been doing it thru bios this whole time. For some reason I can't get their exe's to install when downloaded from their site but I do have the CD.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Sup guys, new guy here! I recently picked up an 860K, paired it up with an Asus A88X-Pro and cooling it w/ the Hyper 212 Evo. I can get 4.2ghz at the right voltage and has decent thermal margin left over. At 4.3ghz though, I have to adjust the Digi VRM settings for extreme and when I can finally run P95 on it, I find that my thermal margin disappears. How is it that people are getting 4.4 and 4.5?


I could do 4.5GHz with no problem on cold winter days with the window open, lol. But now if I want to bench that it takes me a lot more voltage. The air conditioning sucks in my test lab...

I never get to the margin on this CPU, but the amount of hot air I exhaust reminds me of my Phemom II x6.


----------



## tone1492

Hi guys I've been lurking around here since being invited to the site by damric at a different site. Just reading through this thread has helped me a lot, but I have hit a wall. I got a really bad CPU and can only run it stable at 4.2 Ghz 1.45v. Anything more requires too much voltage and I get too close to the thermal limit. At 4.2 Ghz 1.45v I can run through 50 passes of Intel Burn Test on High no problem, but when I overclocked my NB to 2000 Mhz I fail the test before it reaches 3 or 4 passes. Is this normal when overclocking the Northbridge? I have 2400 Mhz RAM and have tried running it at 2133 and I still fail the test. Here are my specs.

860K 4.2 Ghz at 1.45v
Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4
GSkill Trident 2400 Mhz 10-12-12-31
Antec High Current Gamer 620 Bronze
Cooler Master Seidon 120V liquid cooler
MSI GTX 960 4GB

My NB voltage is at stock. 1.13750. I tried raising it and I still fail the test. I boot into Windows fine, but can't pass Intel Burn Test. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Himo5

If you are using the XMP setting for the TridentX kit it may have also altered the NB frequency setting - which you are then OCing over the limit. If that is the case, reset to optimal default in BIOS, set XMP and post again, then boot iinto Windows and see what NB reading CPU-Z is giving on the Memory Tab. If Turbo boost is on it will automatically feed another 200MHz on top of that under load. If you want to advance past 4200MHz you would probably do better raising LLC and the other VRM controls by a small, balanced, increment and then testing the effect.


----------



## damric

An interesting "hidden" specification for the XMP profile is that it often requires 1.25v memory controller. You can view this in AIDA64 Extreme. I raise mine to 1.28v for running DDR3-2400CL9. 1.14v sure as hell would not work.


----------



## tone1492

I have Turbo Boost disabled. CPU Z shows my NB Frequency at 2000 Mhz. XMP is set to profile 1 and all my timings are set manually according to the stock specs of the RAM. Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly though. Can you explain more?

As far as my overclock goes I have my LLC set to medium to prevent vdroop. I only OC with the multiplier and VCore. I'm not experienced with VRM voltage or whatever it is you mentioned. Seriously I got some really bad silicone. I need 1.52v just to boot into Windows at 4.4 GHz. Then at some point either during stress testing or just hanging around in Windows my PC freezes. At this point I'm good with 4.2 I just want to pass a stress test with my NB at 2000 Mhz.


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have Turbo Boost disabled. CPU Z shows my NB Frequency at 2000 Mhz. XMP is set to profile 1 and all my timings are set manually according to the stock specs of the RAM. Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly though. Can you explain more?
> 
> As far as my overclock goes I have my LLC set to medium to prevent vdroop. I only OC with the multiplier and VCore. I'm not experienced with VRM voltage or whatever it is you mentioned. Seriously I got some really bad silicone. I need 1.52v just to boot into Windows at 4.4 GHz. Then at some point either during stress testing or just hanging around in Windows my PC freezes. At this point I'm good with 4.2 I just want to pass a stress test with my NB at 2000 Mhz.


What temps are u getting with Prime95 on small FFT's?

I have about the same as you, currently im running 4.3 @ 1.4825 with CPU LCC set to Medium, my chip gets to about 55c max on small FFT's, 4.5Ghz @ 1.5+V gets it too 65 coretemps quite fast.

Rest of my settings are :

NB 2000 @ 1.2V
RAM 2400/10/14/12/28 @ 1.65V, manual mode.

These settings havent freezed or anything on me, been using it for 2 weeks now with multiple days of stresstests and gaming, im still testing some 4.4/4,5ghz settings but havent had the time yet.


----------



## Himo5

Sorry, I've just seen the F2A88X-UP4 doesn't have the options I was thinking about - Power Phase/Duty/Thermal Control, Current Capability and Voltage Frequency adjustments. The only other thing I can think of that might be holding you back is if, with Turbo CPB disabled, you have APM Enabled. Application Power Management will draw down voltage and frequency if power consumption rises above TDP and should only be enabled if Turbo CPB is as well.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> What temps are u getting with Prime95 on small FFT's?
> 
> I have about the same as you, currently im running 4.3 @ 1.4825 with CPU LCC set to Medium, my chip gets to about 55c max on small FFT's, 4.5Ghz @ 1.5+V gets it too 65 coretemps quite fast.
> 
> Rest of my settings are :
> 
> NB 2000 @ 1.2V
> RAM 2400/10/14/12/28 @ 1.65V, manual mode.
> 
> These settings havent freezed or anything on me, been using it for 2 weeks now with multiple days of stresstests and gaming, im still testing some 4.4/4,5ghz settings but havent had the time yet.


I used the blend test in Prime 95. At 4.2 and 1.45v I don't get over 66 degrees and never under 15 degrees of my thermal margin. At 4.4 and 1.52v things heat up fast. 76-77 degrees and thermal margin at 5 degrees.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Sorry, I've just seen the F2A88X-UP4 doesn't have the options I was thinking about - Power Phase/Duty/Thermal Control, Current Capability and Voltage Frequency adjustments. The only other thing I can think of that might be holding you back is if, with Turbo CPB disabled, you have APM Enabled. Application Power Management will draw down voltage and frequency if power consumption rises above TDP and should only be enabled if Turbo CPB is as well.


APM is disabled. I figured that out when I was throttling at less than 55 degrees. I disabled it and everything was cool. I have a question though. Would setting voltage to optimized defaults and using the Dynamic DVID, which is basically the same as an offset on other boards be better than using the VCORE? say if the VID is 1.38 and I want 1.4v. Offset would be 0.020. Would that even make a difference? Man I am so disappointed with this chip although I shouldn't be. I'm getting great performance in games with my OCd GTX 960, but not being able to hit 4.5 at a decent voltage is just ridiculous.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I used the blend test in Prime 95. At 4.2 and 1.45v I don't get over 66 degrees and never under 15 degrees of my thermal margin. At 4.4 and 1.52v things heat up fast. 76-77 degrees and thermal margin at 5 degrees.
> APM is disabled. I figured that out when I was throttling at less than 55 degrees. I disabled it and everything was cool. I have a question though. Would setting voltage to optimized defaults and using the Dynamic DVID, which is basically the same as an offset on other boards be better than using the VCORE? say if the VID is 1.38 and I want 1.4v. Offset would be 0.020. Would that even make a difference? Man I am so disappointed with this chip although I shouldn't be. I'm getting great performance in games with my OCd GTX 960, but not being able to hit 4.5 at a decent voltage is just ridiculous.


I got a better overclock with my 860K in my GA-F2A88X-UP4 than my Crossblade Ranger. I used the Dynamic DVID. That way your voltage isn't pegged all the time. Without much work I got my 860K to 4.6 GHz. Forgot what my vcore was as I am playing with a different computer now. It was reasonable. My thermal margin held steady at 21C running the torture test. My case has good airflow and I have a NH-D14.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I got a better overclock with my 860K in my GA-F2A88X-UP4 than my Crossblade Ranger. I used the Dynamic DVID. That way your voltage isn't pegged all the time. Without much work I got my 860K to 4.6 GHz. Forgot what my vcore was as I am playing with a different computer now. It was reasonable. My thermal margin held steady at 21C running the torture test. My case has good airflow and I have a NH-D14.


Thanks for that I'm gonna start from scratch and use the Dynamic DVID. I have an NZXT S340. Two big 140mm NZXT fans on the front. My case temperature is really good with great airflow. This is my first rig and I wanted to buy a budget CPU without skimping out on important parts because I knew I wanted to overclock without any problems. I got a good motherboard and PSU, a good case too. It's been frustrating, but at the same time comforting because I know I can't blame any of my other components for the poor overclock.

Did you use LLC on your UP4? If so, what was it set at?


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> APM is disabled. I figured that out when I was throttling at less than 55 degrees. I disabled it and everything was cool. I have a question though. Would setting voltage to optimized defaults and using the Dynamic DVID, which is basically the same as an offset on other boards be better than using the VCORE? say if the VID is 1.38 and I want 1.4v. Offset would be 0.020. Would that even make a difference? Man I am so disappointed with this chip although I shouldn't be. I'm getting great performance in games with my OCd GTX 960, but not being able to hit 4.5 at a decent voltage is just ridiculous.


As chrisjames61 suggested, DVID is definitely the way to go rather than fixing the operating voltage across the board regardless of load.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> As chrisjames61 suggested, DVID is definitely the way to go rather than fixing the operating voltage across the board regardless of load.


Cool man thanks a lot. Once I get home I'll test again and post my results.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Thanks for that I'm gonna start from scratch and use the Dynamic DVID. I have an NZXT S340. Two big 140mm NZXT fans on the front. My case temperature is really good with great airflow. This is my first rig and I wanted to buy a budget CPU without skimping out on important parts because I knew I wanted to overclock without any problems. I got a good motherboard and PSU, a good case too. It's been frustrating, but at the same time comforting because I know I can't blame any of my other components for the poor overclock.
> 
> Did you use LLC on your UP4? If so, what was it set at?


I have three S340's. I like them. The Stilt recommends using a medium type setting for LLC with Kaveri cpu's. He says too much voltage is as bad as too little. NOW................ the Gigabyte boards have really weird LLC settings, medium, average, normal? Those three mean pretty much the same to me lol! I would start with whichever setting comes up closest to the middle. Then make sure that in CPU-Z your voltage isn't too high. Then keep an eye on your thermal margin. Stress test. Don't change too many settings at once so you aren't chasing your tail. It is all trial and error obviously. You have the right idea imho. If you buy quality components you will be able to squeeze the most out of whatever cpu you buy. I have a 6300 @ 4.7 GHz in a rig and a 8320 at 4.7 GHz in another. I find myself using my 860K or my A10-7870 in other rigs 90% of the time.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I have three S340's. I like them. The Stilt recommends using a medium type setting for LLC with Kaveri cpu's. He says too much voltage is as bad as too little. NOW................ the Gigabyte boards have really weird LLC settings, medium, average, normal? Those three mean pretty much the same to me lol! I would start with whichever setting comes up closest to the middle. Then make sure that in CPU-Z your voltage isn't too high. Then keep an eye on your thermal margin. Stress test. Don't change too many settings at once so you aren't chasing your tail. It is all trial and error obviously. You have the right idea imho. If you buy quality components you will be able to squeeze the most out of whatever cpu you buy. I have a 6300 @ 4.7 GHz in a rig and a 8320 at 4.7 GHz in another. I find myself using my 860K or my A10-7870 in other rigs 90% of the time.


On Gigabyte boards, the LLC settings go like this:
- Auto
- Standard
- Low
- Medium
- Extreme

I think it should map like this:
- Standard => -0% (default range)
- Low => -20%
- Medium => -40%
- Extreme => -100%

Medium looks to be the winner here


----------



## MatrixDecker

double post, please delete


----------



## Piccolo55

Would a 860k work well with a gtx 970 gpu?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> Would a 860k work well with a gtx 970 gpu?


No. Anything high-end is going to be held back severely by that chip. I've had several cards on mine including a 970 and a 290X. It isn't worth it.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> No. Anything high-end is going to be held back severely by that chip. I've had several cards on mine including a 970 and a 290X. It isn't worth it.


mmm no.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> mmm no.


You can say no all you want, it doesn't make it true. Running at 4K with maxed settings on my 290X I get less than 50% GPU usage in DA:I while all four cores are maxed at 99%. Its a good budget chip, but falls short for high end builds just like the G3258 and the dual-module Visheras do.


----------



## maltamonk

At what level do y'all think a GPU would be bottlenecked by it? 960/280? 280x? 970/290?


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You can say no all you want, it doesn't make it true. Running at 4K with maxed settings on my 290X I get less than 50% GPU usage in DA:I while all four cores are maxed at 99%. Its a good budget chip, but falls short for high end builds just like the G3258 and the dual-module Visheras do.


Id be running at 1080p max


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> Id be running at 1080p max


It was about the same at 1080p. Don't get me wrong, its a good little CPU but it has no upgrade path so buying a 970 for it is mostly a waste. There isn't anything better you can slap in there, 860k is as good as it gets on FM2+. Just take a look at this: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Systems/Quad-Core-Gaming-Roundup-How-Much-CPU-Do-You-Really-Need

For a chip like that, something like a 280X/380 or 960 is a good match.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> It was about the same at 1080p. Don't get me wrong, its a good little CPU but it has no upgrade path so buying a 970 for it is mostly a waste. There isn't anything better you can slap in there, 860k is as good as it gets on FM2+. Just take a look at this: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Systems/Quad-Core-Gaming-Roundup-How-Much-CPU-Do-You-Really-Need


I also have been looking at a fx 8000cpu but my fear with that is that if I look at zen that it would be a waste of money to get a fx. I don't know going with a fx 8000 CPU gets me more time


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I also have been looking at a fx 8000cpu but my fear with that is that if I look at zen that it would be a waste of money to get a fx. I don't know going with a fx 8000 CPU gets me more time


Zen won't be on FM2+ anyway, and you won't have to worry about it until 2016 sometime. What are you using right now?


----------



## tone1492

Did some testing this morning using the DVID offset method and had some interesting results. For some reason before when I upped the VCORE I needed 1.45v to keep 4.2 stable. Using offset voltage I was able to keep 4.2 stable for 20 passes of Intel Burn test on 1.42v and one hour on Prime 95 small. I also fixed my memory and NB issue. What I think happened was I set the timings on channel A, but forgot to change the timings on channel B. Once I got that sorted out I set NB to 2000 Mhz and used NB voltage offset to get voltage to 1.2v.
I'm gonna do some longer runs once I get home from work in the morning, but right now that is looking like my everyday OC.

My temps were pretty decent at this voltage being in the mid 50s and thermal margin in the high 20s. I realized that my fan speeds had been reset a while ago after a default reset, so my fans had not been at the correct speed. Fixed that.

Testing at 4.3 I needed 1.46v and the temps got to 63 max and thermal margin was between 20-19 degrees. I still don't think I will be able to hit 4.5 with under 1.5v, but overall using the offset method seems much better.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Zen won't be on FM2+ anyway, and you won't have to worry about it until 2016 sometime. What are you using right now?


Well I'm going to be building a gaming PC later this year. My old hp PC has a Amd Athlon II x4 620. The reason to go with a possible cheaper CPU mobo route would be so I could get zen sooner then let's say a fx 8350 and a $100 990fx chipset mobo.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> Well I'm going to be building a gaming PC later this year. My old hp PC has a Amd Athlon II x4 620. The reason to go with a possible cheaper CPU mobo route would be so I could get zen sooner then let's say a fx 8350 and a $100 990fx chipset mobo.


You can get an FX 6300 + 970 board for about the same price you would pay for any decent FM2+ board that you don't have to stick little heatsinks on and pray it doesn't catch fire. Don't forget, if you want max performance out of Kaveri you want fast RAM as well, while Vishera is perfectly happy with cheap 1333 stuff. Heck, you could probably scrounge up a cheap AM3/AM3+ board and clock the snot out of that Athlon you have, it has better per-core performance than the 860K at the same clock speeds.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You can get an FX 6300 + 970 board for about the same price you would pay for any decent FM2+ board that you don't have to stick little heatsinks on and pray it doesn't catch fire. Don't forget, if you want max performance out of Kaveri you want fast RAM as well, while Vishera is perfectly happy with cheap 1333 stuff. Heck, you could probably scrounge up a cheap AM3/AM3+ board and clock the snot out of that Athlon you have, it has better per-core performance than the 860K at the same clock speeds.


Hmm I didn't even know that about the 620. It says the 620 doesn't have l3 cache does that matter for a hold me over till zen or not really?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> Hmm I didn't even know that about the 620. It says the 620 doesn't have l3 cache does that matter for a hold me over till zen or not really?


If you were prepared to use an 860K, it doesn't matter because it doesn't have any L3 cache either. Some games like to have the L3, some don't care. What do you like to play or plan to use it for?


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> Id be running at 1080p max
> 
> 
> 
> It was about the same at 1080p. Don't get me wrong, its a good little CPU but it has no upgrade path so buying a 970 for it is mostly a waste. There isn't anything better you can slap in there, 860k is as good as it gets on FM2+. Just take a look at this: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Systems/Quad-Core-Gaming-Roundup-How-Much-CPU-Do-You-Really-Need
> 
> For a chip like that, something like a 280X/380 or 960 is a good match.
Click to expand...

I think that may be the first site to actually have the cajones to show an FX 9590 beating a 4790K.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> If you were prepared to use an 860K, it doesn't matter because it doesn't have any L3 cache either. Some games like to have the L3, some don't care. What do you like to play or plan to use it for?


I plan to play gta v, project cars, Minecraft. And I have other PC games on steam too like NASCAR 15 demo too and other games that probbaly aren't CPU bound other then gta Iv


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I think that may be the first site to actually have the cajones to show an FX 9590 beating a 4790K.


Maybe, it definitely can in the right programs. For me, I would love to run an FX chip but I play a lot of old games that crap all over one core and unfortunately AMD can't keep up with Intel in that specific scenario. Hopefully that changes somewhat with Zen, if we can get Sandy level IPS I'll be really happy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I plan to play gta v, project cars, Minecraft. And I have other PC games on steam too like NASCAR 15 demo too and other games that probbaly aren't CPU bound other then gta Iv


Personally, I would recommend something like the FX6300, they go on sale all the time for $89. Maybe a board like the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P (NOT the regular UD3, they are totally different power delivery). With a decent little cooler like a 212+ EVO you can get 4.5-4.6ghz and enjoy your games without a whole lot of outlay. Re-use the RAM and stuff from your HP machine, you might need a new PSU though.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Maybe, it definitely can in the right programs. For me, I would love to run an FX chip but I play a lot of old games that crap all over one core and unfortunately AMD can't keep up with Intel in that specific scenario. Hopefully that changes somewhat with Zen, if we can get Sandy level IPS I'll be really happy.
> Personally, I would recommend something like the FX6300, they go on sale all the time for $89. Maybe a board like the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P (NOT the regular UD3, they are totally different power delivery). With a decent little cooler like a 212+ EVO you can get 4.5-4.6ghz and enjoy your games without a whole lot of outlay. Re-use the RAM and stuff from your HP machine, you might need a new PSU though.


I know my ram is 6gb but I don't know if it's even ddr3 seems the PC is from 2009, my psu is a tr2 thermaltake 600watt. I asked one of my friends about the 6300 and he called it crap. He recommended me a i5 2500k lol. But lots of people like the 6300 a lot.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> I think that may be the first site to actually have the cajones to show an FX 9590 beating a 4790K.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, *it definitely can in the right programs*. For me, I would love to run an FX chip but I play a lot of old games that crap all over one core and unfortunately AMD can't keep up with Intel in that specific scenario. Hopefully that changes somewhat with Zen, if we can get Sandy level IPS I'll be really happy.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I plan to play gta v, project cars, Minecraft. And I have other PC games on steam too like NASCAR 15 demo too and other games that probbaly aren't CPU bound other then gta Iv
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally, I would recommend something like the FX6300, they go on sale all the time for $89. Maybe a board like the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P (NOT the regular UD3, they are totally different power delivery). With a decent little cooler like a 212+ EVO you can get 4.5-4.6ghz and enjoy your games without a whole lot of outlay. Re-use the RAM and stuff from your HP machine, you might need a new PSU though.
Click to expand...

Stock Vs Stock, ( I've done a lot of comparisons for myself) it does more often than people realize . Particularly at higher resolutions and, oddly enough, it seems to do better with Nvidia graphics cards...lol

EDIT : Don't know if i posted this here but his may be helpful - GTA V benchmark on 4 -6 and 8 cores on the Vishera platform


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Stock Vs Stock, ( I've done a lot of comparisons for myself) it does more often than people realize . Particularly at higher resolutions and, oddly enough, it seems to do better with Nvidia graphics cards...lol
> 
> EDIT : Don't know if i posted this here but his may be helpful - GTA V benchmark on 4 -6 and 8 cores on the Vishera platform
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


As of late everything does better with a nvidia card it seems.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I know my ram is 6gb but I don't know if it's even ddr3 seems the PC is from 2009, my psu is a tr2 thermaltake 600watt. I asked one of my friends about the 6300 and he called it crap. He recommended me a i5 2500k lol. But lots of people like the 6300 a lot.


There are a few versions of the TR2 600W, and most of them are utter trash and should be avoided at all costs. And sure, a 2500k is probably better in most games, but you aren't going to get one for $89. 6GB from 2009 is more than likely DDR3, run CPU-Z and it will tell you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Stock Vs Stock, ( I've done a lot of comparisons for myself) it does more often than people realize . Particularly at higher resolutions and, oddly enough, it seems to do better with Nvidia graphics cards...lol
> 
> EDIT : Don't know if i posted this here but his may be helpful - GTA V benchmark on 4 -6 and 8 cores on the Vishera platform
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Yeah, Nvidia has had lower driver overhead for a while which seems to help the AMD chips. I would probably still have an 8320 if it wasn't for world of tanks, I had one that would do 5250mhz under water with only 1.51V. It was a total beast, but a cheap i3 can beat it in WoT because of the stupid sing;e-threaded bigworld engine they use.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> There are a few versions of the TR2 600W, and most of them are utter trash and should be avoided at all costs. And sure, a 2500k is probably better in most games, but you aren't going to get one for $89. 6GB from 2009 is more than likely DDR3, run CPU-Z and it will tell you.
> Yeah, Nvidia has had lower driver overhead for a while which seems to help the AMD chips. I would probably still have an 8320 if it wasn't for world of tanks, I had one that would do 5250mhz under water with only 1.51V. It was a total beast, but a cheap i3 can beat it in WoT because of the stupid sing;e-threaded bigworld engine they use.


Yeah a 2500k is over $220 still.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I know my ram is 6gb but I don't know if it's even ddr3 seems the PC is from 2009, my psu is a tr2 thermaltake 600watt. I asked one of my friends about the 6300 and he called it crap. He recommended me a i5 2500k lol. But lots of people like the 6300 a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few versions of the TR2 600W, and most of them are utter trash and should be avoided at all costs. And sure, a 2500k is probably better in most games, but you aren't going to get one for $89. 6GB from 2009 is more than likely DDR3, run CPU-Z and it will tell you.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Stock Vs Stock, ( I've done a lot of comparisons for myself) it does more often than people realize . Particularly at higher resolutions and, oddly enough, it seems to do better with Nvidia graphics cards...lol
> 
> EDIT : Don't know if i posted this here but his may be helpful - GTA V benchmark on 4 -6 and 8 cores on the Vishera platform
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, Nvidia has had lower driver overhead for a while which seems to help the AMD chips. I would probably still have an 8320 if it wasn't for world of tanks, I had one that would do 5250mhz under water with only 1.51V. It was a total beast, but a cheap i3 can beat it in WoT because of the stupid sing;e-threaded bigworld engine they use.
Click to expand...

Here's what I came up with for FPS on WOT benchmark with my rig at different settings.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Here's what I came up with for FPS on WOT benchmark with my rig at different settings.


Yeah, with a 780ti and a 3570k I was averaging ~110fps lol. Not a good AMD game.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, with a 780ti and a 3570k I was averaging ~110fps lol. Not a good AMD game.


I wish zen was comming this year. My CPU choice would be much easier lol.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Maybe, it definitely can in the right programs. For me, I would love to run an FX chip but I play a lot of old games that crap all over one core and unfortunately AMD can't keep up with Intel in that specific scenario. Hopefully that changes somewhat with Zen, if we can get Sandy level IPS I'll be really happy.
> Personally, I would recommend something like the FX6300, they go on sale all the time for $89. Maybe a board like the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P (NOT the regular UD3, they are totally different power delivery). With a decent little cooler like a 212+ EVO you can get 4.5-4.6ghz and enjoy your games without a whole lot of outlay. Re-use the RAM and stuff from your HP machine, you might need a new PSU though.


The 860K is faster at gaming than the FX-6300, and by quite a bit. You must not know how to use yours.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> The 860K is faster at gaming than the FX-6300, and by quite a bit. You must not know how to use yours.


Prove it. A tiny margin of IPC increase doesn't equal anything, let alone "quite a bit".


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Prove it. A tiny margin of IPC increase doesn't equal anything, let alone "quite a bit".


Ok FX-6300 can't do this. It's not tiny. Kaveri has 2x as many decoders per module.



Let's see your FX-6300 choke in this CPU bound game engine.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Ok FX-6300 can't do this. It's not tiny. Kaveri has 2x as many decoders per module.
> 
> Let's see your FX-6300 choke in this CPU bound game engine.


So you have one bench that you can beat Vishera and suddenly that makes the 860K better at every game? I can't even tell what it is that you posted tbh. You seem to think I'm talking badly about the 860K and I'm not, it has its place. I enjoy mine a lot. I also freely admit its drawbacks, try playing a heavily L3 dependent game like PS2 and see what happens.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So you have one bench that you can beat Vishera and suddenly that makes the 860K better at every game? I can't even tell what it is that you posted tbh. You seem to think I'm talking badly about the 860K and I'm not, it has its place. I enjoy mine a lot. I also freely admit its drawbacks, try playing a heavily L3 dependent game like PS2 and see what happens.


Try playing a "L3 cache dependent game" with Vishera's L3 cache that has such poor latency it is as slow as my RAM









1-0 Let's see your bench.

Perhaps you should read this instead of pcper crap review.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1493307/relative-access-to-execution-throughput-comparison-chart


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Try playing a "L3 cache dependent game" with Vishera's L3 cache that has such poor latency it is as slow as my RAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1-0 Let's see your bench.
> 
> Perhaps you should read this instead of pcper crap review.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1493307/relative-access-to-execution-throughput-comparison-chart


I don't even own an FX6300. But if you bother to tell me what bench that is and not post an ant-sized screenshot of it I'll be happy to demolish your 860K anyways.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Here's what I came up with for FPS on WOT benchmark with my rig at different settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, with a 780ti and a 3570k I was averaging ~110fps lol. Not a good AMD game.
Click to expand...

Using the benchmark at maximum settings I see scores from I 7's ( 3770k and 4770k's) running at 4.5 ghz averaging around 90 fps with 780's no ti's that I could find.

I really don't see much difference between my son's 2600k rig an my FX during game play. If it's still on the same version of the game , I should run a the benchmark on it.

Were you running the 780 ti on the 8320 rig?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I don't even own an FX6300. But if you bother to tell me what bench that is and not post an ant-sized screenshot of it I'll be happy to demolish your 860K anyways.


Maybe you need a better monitor







Or maybe you can learn to right click, open image in new tab...

It's obvious you don't own either an Athlon 860K or FX-6300, because I see you all the time spouting wrong info.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Maybe you need a better monitor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe you can learn to right click, open image in new tab...
> 
> It's obvious you don't own either an Athlon 860K or FX-6300, because I see you all the time spouting wrong info.


You still have yet to prove anything, by the way. Other than you're romantically invested in a CPU that is.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You still have yet to prove anything, by the way. Other than you're romantically invested in a CPU that is.


?

I showed you an example when you asked for proof.

Get lost.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> ?
> 
> I showed you an example when you asked for proof.
> 
> Get lost.


You provided one bench (that I've never heard of or seen anyone else use) and that somehow proves the 860K the superior gaming solution? Do you really believe yourself?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You provided one bench (that I've never heard of or seen anyone else use) and that somehow proves the 860K the superior gaming solution? Do you really believe yourself?


1 more than you provided after you falsely claimed the FX-6300 is a superior gamer. You said it yourself you don't even own it. Now get out of our thread and go troll and spread your nonsense somewhere else.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> 1 more than you provided after you falsely claimed the FX-6300 is a superior gamer. You said it yourself you don't even own it. Now get out of our thread and go troll and spread your nonsense somewhere else.


I don't currently own an FX6300. I've had about a dozen of them come through my hands. Even more 83XX than that, and a couple of FX9590's as well. I have an 860K sitting right here on my desk waiting for a new board because the NIC on my XBR died. Do you want a picture of it or something?

I still don't understand how you think the small improvement in the steamroller cores vs piledriver can overcome an extra module with more overclocking headroom. Do you have any other benches? Cinebench or something that other people have scores to compare to?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You still have yet to prove anything, by the way.


/yawn
except he's posted results time and time again in this very thread
you should really look at *mdcod*'s throughput thread too btw.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> /yawn
> except he's posted results time and time again in this very thread
> you should really look at *mdcod*'s throughput thread too btw.


I read that a while back, I don't see what the point of it is in this context. All it shows is that steamroller is slightly better per core, which we know already. It also shows that in heavily threaded situations it isn't as good as a similar chip with more cores (go figure). If there was a 6-core Kaveri with some L3 cache it would be a really good chip, but I doubt we'll ever see that.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> You provided one bench (that I've never heard of or seen anyone else use) and that somehow proves the 860K the superior gaming solution? Do you really believe yourself?


Don't hijack this thread with CPU suggestions this is the 860K owners thread for a reason. There are ppl here like me trying to learn how to maximize this CPU and you are taking away from that discussion.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Don't hijack this thread with CPU suggestions this is the 860K owners thread for a reason. There are ppl here like me trying to learn how to maximize this CPU and you are taking away from that discussion.


The guy asked a question, a couple of people answered him. This isn't an official thread anyway.

On another note, I'm going to be doing an OCN freebie for my 860K. I decided to go a different route.


----------



## VordaVor

So I finally got my Crossblade Ranger and, after reading some comments here, decided to upgrade to BIOS version that came out just before support for Godavari (0903).
First I OC-ed my TridentX to 2400Mhz without a problem.
Second, I set CPUNB to 2000 and could not boot. I've tried bumping voltage as far as 1.17, but that didn't help either. So I downloaded newest bios and with just 2 offsets it ran perfectly. I will try it without touching the voltage, to see if it will work, but so far it looks nice.

I have prime95 and AIDA64, is it necessary to get Intel Burn Test also, or are those 2 enough ?

So many options on this board, hope I don't mess something up.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> So I finally got my Crossblade Ranger and, after reading some comments here, decided to upgrade to BIOS version that came out just before support for Godavari (0903).
> First I OC-ed my TridentX to 2400Mhz without a problem.
> Second, I set CPUNB to 2000 and could not boot. I've tried bumping voltage as far as 1.17, but that didn't help either. So I downloaded newest bios and with just 2 offsets it ran perfectly. I will try it without touching the voltage, to see if it will work, but so far it looks nice.
> 
> I have prime95 and AIDA64, is it necessary to get Intel Burn Test also, or are those 2 enough ?
> 
> So many options on this board, hope I don't mess something up.


Can you tell me what you did to successfully get the CPUNB to 2000? The minute I go over 1800 my machine refuses to boot.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Can you tell me what you did to successfully get the CPUNB to 2000? The minute I go over 1800 my machine refuses to boot.


Like I mentioned, I couldn't boot too at 0903 bios version, but after updating to the newest bios, it booted right away at 2000Mhz NB, with just a touch on the voltage.

EDIT: Current voltage on CPUNB is 1.15 @ 2000Mhz.


----------



## jsc1973

These chips are so fussy, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I can't boot above stock on any of the post-Godavari BIOS revisions, and using offset mode is more or less useless above 4 GHz on any BIOS revision. The only thing it likes is 1.5325v in standard mode for the CPU and 1.15v for 2000 on the NB.

I'll probably grab an 870K when it shows up, just to have a new toy to play with. Probably won't be doing anything else until Zen anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I read that a while back, I don't see what the point of it is in this context. All it shows is that steamroller is slightly better per core, which we know already. It also shows that in heavily threaded situations it isn't as good as a similar chip with more cores (go figure). If there was a 6-core Kaveri with some L3 cache it would be a really good chip, but I doubt we'll ever see that.


Steamroller can be significantly better per core, depending on the workload. I ran several benchmarks earlier this year (posted way up this thread somewhere), that showed SR to be 15 percent better at the same clock in some cases, and at least five percent better no matter what you're doing.

The reason it can beat an FX-6300 in gaming is because very few games can use six cores. Even decently multithreaded games can max out four at the most, which is why the i5-4690K is the CPU of choice for gamers at 1440p and below. The 4790 isn't needed because there's no need for the hyperthreading. (If you're playing at 4K, it's a different story, but that doesn't matter here, because no one's considering an 860K or FX-6300 if they're wanting to play at 4K.)

And the L3 cache is basically useless on AMD K15h chips used for non-server applications, because it's so slow and has high latency. The performance benefit it provides is negligible at best, and sometimes nonexistent. It made a difference on Phenom II's, but doesn't matter much on anything since.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> These chips are so fussy, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I can't boot above stock on any of the post-Godavari BIOS revisions, and using offset mode is more or less useless above 4 GHz on any BIOS revision. The only thing it likes is 1.5325v in standard mode for the CPU and 1.15v for 2000 on the NB.
> 
> I'll probably grab an 870K when it shows up, just to have a new toy to play with. Probably won't be doing anything else until Zen anyway.


Mine is extremely temperature sensitive. I'm dealing with 43C ambient in my lab this week since my air condioners do not want to work hard. Pretty much zero overclocking and benching is getting done until this summer is over for me.


----------



## tone1492

Anyone have any experience with Gigabyte's F7 Godveri BIOS? I'm on F6 and I'm wondering if F7 would give me some extra tweaking options.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Gigabyte's F7 Godveri BIOS? I'm on F6 and I'm wondering if F7 would give me some extra tweaking options.


I think that this BIOS update just adds AGESA microcode for new APUs, nothing too fancy. I have another Gigabyte board and with the latest bios update and I didn't get anything new in menus.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> I think that this BIOS update just adds AGESA microcode for new APUs, nothing too fancy. I have another Gigabyte board and with the latest bios update and I didn't get anything new in menus.


Thanks man


----------



## burninator

Does anyone have any idea of the 870k ETA?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## jsc1973

It was supposed to be sometime in the second quarter, and that didn't happen, so who knows? It will probably turn up once AMD has a big enough supply of Godavari chips with bad GPU sections. I also suspect AMD holds off a while on releasing the Athlon versions of the A10 because they know some people won't wait and will buy the full chip just to get their hands on the latest chip. The 860K didn't turn up until seven months after the 7850K did. The same timetable would make the 870K show up at Christmas, but I think we'll see it well before then.


----------



## tone1492

My RAM is GSkill Trident X 2400 Mhz. I downclocked it to 2133 Mhz to try and maintain stability. The out of box timings for this kit are 10-12-12-31. At 2133 Mhz what timings would you all recommend?

Current timings at 2133 are 9-11-11-30


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> My RAM is GSkill Trident X 2400 Mhz. I downclocked it to 2133 Mhz to try and maintain stability. The out of box timings for this kit are 10-12-12-31. At 2133 Mhz what timings would you all recommend?
> 
> Current timings at 2133 are 9-11-11-30


For 2133 Tridents I would try for CL8. I was able to do that with my RipjawZs which are based on the same Samsung ICs.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> For 2133 Tridents I would try for CL8. I was able to do that with my RipjawZs which are based on the same Samsung ICs.


So my numbers would like like this?

8-10-10-28. I'll try it after work thanks damric.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> So my numbers would like like this?
> 
> 8-10-10-28. I'll try it after work thanks damric.


Yeah I kind of looked at the XMP 2400 timings and subtracted 1-2 from them with some trial and error, and of course a hefty voltage bump.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> So my numbers would like like this?
> 
> 8-10-10-28. I'll try it after work thanks damric.


Live like the guy in your avatar did... "you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. As soon you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further."









I can run timings like that with the ordinary G.Skill 2133 Ripjaws X stuff, or 10-12-12-31-1T at 2400, with a vdimm boost from stock 1.6 to 1.65. I'd be surprised if the 2400 downclocked to 2133 couldn't do it.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> My RAM is GSkill Trident X 2400 Mhz. I downclocked it to 2133 Mhz to try and maintain stability. The out of box timings for this kit are 10-12-12-31. At 2133 Mhz what timings would you all recommend?
> 
> Current timings at 2133 are 9-11-11-30


Take a look at my Ocaholic chart, which is for 2400MHz TridentX, better still, go and read the review. I tested two timing sets in Prime95 for 2133MHz at the time ( it was with an A10-5800K on an Asus F2A85-V PRO):
2133MHz @ 1.55Volts = 9-9-11-29-2-40
2133MHz @ 1.42Volts = 10-9-11-30-2-41


----------



## cssorkinman

Still trying to get a feel for the relative performance differences between these chips and the FX Vishera's
Would Anyone like to run cb 15 at 4.5ghz and post the single cpu score with their Kaveri to compare to this one?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Still trying to get a feel for the relative performance differences between these chips and the FX Vishera's
> Would Anyone like to run cb 15 at 4.5ghz and post the single cpu score with their Kaveri to compare to this one?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Dont have a picture of it but the 7850K i had got about the same @ 4.5ghz


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Still trying to get a feel for the relative performance differences between these chips and the FX Vishera's
> Would Anyone like to run cb 15 at 4.5ghz and post the single cpu score with their Kaveri to compare to this one?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont have a picture of it but the 7850K i had got about the same @ 4.5ghz
Click to expand...

Thanks Danny - I appreciate your input.









Any others out there?


----------



## jsc1973

The Vishera seems to do better on this one. I only got 98:


----------



## kxnxng

At 4.4Ghz i get 104


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







[edit]
The lower score on my list is without NB/ram OC.
I got 101 without the NB/ram OC, standard NB 1800 and 9-9-9-24/1600Mhz.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Still trying to get a feel for the relative performance differences between these chips and the FX Vishera's
> Would Anyone like to run cb 15 at 4.5ghz and post the single cpu score with their Kaveri to compare to this one?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## cssorkinman

Thank you for the information guys , seems to be very similar by that particular measurement.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The Vishera seems to do better on this one. I only got 98:


Seems low, what speed is NB and RAM running at and what are the timings for yuor RAM?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Live like the guy in your avatar did... "you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. As soon you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can run timings like that with the ordinary G.Skill 2133 Ripjaws X stuff, or 10-12-12-31-1T at 2400, with a vdimm boost from stock 1.6 to 1.65. I'd be surprised if the 2400 downclocked to 2133 couldn't do it.


Lol good looking out with the Senna quote. I tried those RAM timings with my processor set to 4.3 @ 1.48v and ITB is failing after 2 or 3 passes. Even at default timings the test is failing, but in Prime small I get no errors. My DRAM is set to 1.65v, but I have another setting in my Gigabyte BIOS called DRAM Termination Voltage. It is set to auto and defaults at .75 which is half of the stock 1.5 DRAM voltage. I read somewhere that the termination voltage should be half of what the DRAM voltage is. Should I set it to .82? I don't wanna try it because I'm not familiar with the setting.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Seems low, what speed is NB and RAM running at and what are the timings for yuor RAM?


NB at 2000 and the RAM's at 2133 10-12-12-31-1T. I ran it again with several background tasks turned off and scored 100. I don't get it because the Passmark scores I'm getting are in line with what I've always gotten, and those were about the best of anyone here.

Ran it again this morning and got 103, which is more in line with what the rest of you are seeing. Go figure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Lol good looking out with the Senna quote. I tried those RAM timings with my processor set to 4.3 @ 1.48v and ITB is failing after 2 or 3 passes. Even at default timings the test is failing, but in Prime small I get no errors. My DRAM is set to 1.65v, but I have another setting in my Gigabyte BIOS called DRAM Termination Voltage. It is set to auto and defaults at .75 which is half of the stock 1.5 DRAM voltage. I read somewhere that the termination voltage should be half of what the DRAM voltage is. Should I set it to .82? I don't wanna try it because I'm not familiar with the setting.


That's one of my favorite quotes of all time. Ayrton Senna is the only racing driver I ever tuned in just to watch.

I'm actually having some issues with my RAM now. Setting it for 2400 isn't working anymore; it's getting hang-ups and crashes unless I dial it back to 2133. Could the the explanation for my lousy CB scores.

DRAM Termination, if set to auto, should auto-set at whatever half of your voltage is, so if you're running at 1.65v, it should automatically boost that to .82.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> NB at 2000 and the RAM's at 2133 10-12-12-31-1T. I ran it again with several background tasks turned off and scored 100. I don't get it because the Passmark scores I'm getting are in line with what I've always gotten, and those were about the best of anyone here.
> That's one of my favorite quotes of all time. Ayrton Senna is the only racing driver I ever tuned in just to watch.
> 
> I'm actually having some issues with my RAM now. Setting it for 2400 isn't working anymore; it's getting hang-ups and crashes unless I dial it back to 2133. Could the the explanation for my lousy CB scores.
> 
> DRAM Termination, if set to auto, should auto-set at whatever half of your voltage is, so if you're running at 1.65v, it should automatically boost that to .82.


Ok cool thanks for the DRAM Term answer.

This CPU is very finicky but I am enjoying the challenge of tuning it. Yes I'm having the same issue with my RAM. Stock timings and even timings just one number less than stock ran just fine at 2133 for days, now I get failed tests in less than 5 minutes. I did lower the NB voltage down since I was booting into Windows just fine with it @ 2000 MHz. I'll reset it back to 1.2 volts to see if that helps.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Lol good looking out with the Senna quote. I tried those RAM timings with my processor set to 4.3 @ 1.48v and ITB is failing after 2 or 3 passes. Even at default timings the test is failing, but in Prime small I get no errors. My DRAM is set to 1.65v, but I have another setting in my Gigabyte BIOS called DRAM Termination Voltage. It is set to auto and defaults at .75 which is half of the stock 1.5 DRAM voltage. I read somewhere that the termination voltage should be half of what the DRAM voltage is. Should I set it to .82? I don't wanna try it because I'm not familiar with the setting.


DRAM Termination Voltage may refer to MEMVREF. In the Asus A88X-Pro BIOS there are three voltage adjustments, NB VREF Voltage, DRAM VREFCA Voltage and DRAM VREFDQ Voltage, having the following guidance note:
Min = 0.5*(DRAM Voltage)-0.315V
Max = 0.5*(DRAM Voltage)+0.315V
Standard = 0.5*(DRAM Voltage)V
Increment = 0.005V

This has to do with MEMVREF, the memory reference voltage, which "configures" both the CPU and the memory module with the voltage level that separates what is to be considered a "0" or a "1," i.e., voltages found on the memory bus below MEMVREF are to be considered a "0," and voltages above this level are to be considered a "1." By default, this voltage level is half of VDDIO (a.k.a. 0.500x), but some motherboards allow you to change this ratio, usually through two options: "DRAM Ctrl Ref Voltage" (for the control lines from the memory bus; JEDEC's official name for this voltage is VREFCA), and "DRAM Ctrl Data Ref Voltage" (for the data lines from the memory bus; JEDEC's official name for this voltage is VREFDQ). These options are configured as a multiplier. For example, "0.395x" means that the reference voltage will be 0.395 times VDDIO.(http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-all-voltage-configurations-from-the-motherboard/2/)

VrefCA: Reference (Vdd) voltage for Command & Address signals
Adjusting this reference voltage can help increase stability during stress tests (eg. Prime95, SuperPi) when rounding errors are reported outside expected limits - increase when error is higher than expected reduce when lower.
VrefDQ: Reference (Vss) voltage for Data signals
Changes only needed when running very high memory clocks or using sub-zero cooling, when the actual centre of the data eye provided to the DRAM may shift up and down slightly from one device to another due to variances in PCB layout, power distribution SSO (simultaneous switching output), temperature or other effects.


----------



## drmrlordx

It would be interesting know how high memory clocks and high vdimm affect the shifting of the "data eye" provided to the DRAM during operation. I would expect that running the memory at low temperatures would shift it downward.

Personally I have not had much luck achieving improved RAM stability by raising NB VREF Voltage, DRAM VREFCA Voltage and DRAM VREFDQ under any circumstance.


----------



## DannyDK

Its sad to see so many people having problems with theire ram not being able to run at 2400 and a nb at 2000, on the asus gamer and the asrock killer is was so easy and it worked right away. Can it be the chips themselved that are the problem? Some of you are realy having nice kits (ram and mobo) so it breaks my heart a bit to see this sort of strugle :-(


----------



## damric

It might just be ASUS boards.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> It might just be ASUS boards.


I used an asus gamer with the next 7850k build i did after the asrock killer build and the gamer just took the trident x 2400/cl10 with a smile, so im beginning to think it must be the chips allthough i dont know if it is, just a thought


----------



## damric

I don't know. I have haven't had issue running extremely fast RAM with either my 760K or 860K on either my Asrock or MSI board. I tend to crank voltage though. I have no qualms about pushing 1.75 or even 1.8v through DDR3. Same with NB voltage, I'll do 1.5 or more if need be.


----------



## tone1492

Thanks guys for all the info. It's really helping.

So I ran Prime95 blend four times with CPU @ 4.3 1.47v with RAM on stock timings 10-12-12-31. Once with RAM @ 2400 MHz 1.65v, twice with RAM @ 2133 MHz 1.65v and once at 1866 MHz 1.5v. At 2400 I got an error at the 41 minute mark on core one. Back in BIOS switched it to 2133. At the 41 minute mark error on core two. Tried again on 2133 and got a BSOD within 15 minutes called attempted_execute_of_noexecute_memory. Read the dump files and did a Google search and the BSOD was of course RAM related, but a few places said it could be bad GPU drivers as well, so I uninstalled it and cleaned my registry then reinstalled. Then I downclocked my RAM to 1866 1.5v. Went 6 hours on blend without an error. Gonna try again tomorrow for 12-24 hours and if it passes I'll try to get stable at 2133 again.


----------



## Feimitsu

Hi guys,

My 860K manages 3.5GHz 1.1v, 4GHz 1.225v, 4.2GHz 1.350v. Don't really want to push it higher as I have a miniITX build. Went to this from a FX6300.

What strikes me though is that, even at 2ghz, voltage won't go under 1.025v without crashing the PC. Is it only my problem, maybe because of my motherboard (http://asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/index.us.asp) or this is common knowledge? Kaveri cannot be undervolted under 1v?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> My 860K manages 3.5GHz 1.1v, 4GHz 1.225v, 4.2GHz 1.350v. Don't really want to push it higher as I have a miniITX build. Went to this from a FX6300.
> 
> What strikes me though is that, even at 2ghz, voltage won't go under 1.025v without crashing the PC. Is it only my problem, maybe because of my motherboard (http://asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/index.us.asp) or this is common knowledge? Kaveri cannot be undervolted under 1v?


I need 1.45v just to get stable at 4.2GHz smdh. I'm on one of the best motherboards, good PSU, case and an avg water cooler smdh. I really got a dud and after reading through this whole thread myself and a few others are the only ones needing to push high voltage for below avg clocks. Majority hit 4.5 no problem. Not too bad a percentage of decent overclock ability in the grand scheme of things.

I also have the same issues when I use Cool and Quiet and C6 mode to save power. If the volts drop below 1v it crashes.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Still trying to get a feel for the relative performance differences between these chips and the FX Vishera's
> Would Anyone like to run cb 15 at 4.5ghz and post the single cpu score with their Kaveri to compare to this one?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Incoming!


----------



## tone1492

I'n seriously thinking of purchasing a new 860K because overclocking this one is just not fun. I have Windows 8.1 OEM. Would my key still be good if I drop in a new one, or would Windows consider this a new PC?


----------



## Feimitsu

My advice would be to wait for the 870K


----------



## Rabit

Or take 860K, delid it and put bare core on H20









Lol I borrow My X4 860K to a friend and he cannot get stable NB 2200 on ASUS Crossblade even with 1.3V
on Asus A88X-A NB 2200 1,25V is stable


----------



## Rebellion88

IS there anything you notice this CPU really struggles with or games it just doesnt like?


----------



## Rabit

I cannot give you answear because R7 260X limits FPS before X4 860K will do this.
And I not change GPU before AMD/Nvidia do not release GPU on 14/16nm


----------



## Rebellion88

I was looking at either 750ti, R7 370, R9 380 or maybe a Nvidia 960.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> My advice would be to wait for the 870K


I see it exists but when will it come out?


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> I was looking at either 750ti, R7 370, R9 380 or maybe a Nvidia 960.


750ti is a little beast, i made a build with a 760k @ 4.8 and a moded bios for the 750ti and it just blazed through GTA5 on 1080p medium settings, it never went under 60fps in that game with those settings 

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/4610458


----------



## Rebellion88

Nice might go with that







I am curious if the 370 is stronger or not?


----------



## Rabit

is faster http://pclab.pl/art64399-22.html


----------



## Feimitsu

Too bad PSCHECK doesn't work with this CPU. I would be fine with Overdrive if it supported command line, I like on-demand overclocking, for everything else I just keep the higher frequency at the lowest possible voltage. But as it is now, I need to start it up, adjust the clocks, voltages, play the game, and then put back everything as it was. I didn't find a way to automatically load profiles either.

Is there such a tool around?


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Too bad PSCHECK doesn't work with this CPU. I would be fine with Overdrive if it supported command line, I like on-demand overclocking, for everything else I just keep the higher frequency at the lowest possible voltage. But as it is now, I need to start it up, adjust the clocks, voltages, play the game, and then put back everything as it was. I didn't find a way to automatically load profiles either.
> 
> Is there such a tool around?


Do you not have an option in the BIOS Tool Menu labeled 'Would you like to save current setting user defaults?'. In the manual it says:
In this option, you are allowed to load and save three user defaults according to your own requirements.


----------



## Feimitsu

I would like to do it from Windows.

With PScheck, it was possible to create shortcuts on desktop, that when doubleclicked, would load the OC or DC profile in a matter of seconds


----------



## Himo5

I'm surprised there isn't something like that in A-Tuning. There certainly is in AI Suite III.


----------



## Rabit

I personally have maxed CPU OC in BIOS and when I no need more power I simply lock CPU in lowest multi In CCC or energy efficient in Power option in Win 10


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> IS there anything you notice this CPU really struggles with or games it just doesnt like?


I have mine paired with an GTX 960 4GB and I have no problems with any of my games fps wise. I have a 145 core offset and 320 offset on the memory. I can play Crysis 3 on high with good fps. I play Witcher 3 on high 60 fps. I play modded Skyrim a lot and get high enough fps in dungeons and open world that it justified me purchasing a 144Hz monitor, although I get a few brief dips in towns and bigger battles. This CPU at 4.2 is very capable and to be honest I shouldn't complain but I enjoy overclocking and it annoys me when I read someone hitting 4.5 on air and a 50 dollar board and this thing I have needs 1.488v just to be semi stable on water at 4.3.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> IS there anything you notice this CPU really struggles with or games it just doesnt like?


Sorry but i forgot to tell you that if you plan on playing company of heroes 2 in skirmish mode and have a mod that gives yo 2 or 3 times as many units as you normally have, then it will have problems, heck even my i7 4790 (nonk) @ 4.2 is very very hard pressed.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This CPU at 4.2 is very capable and to be honest I shouldn't complain but I enjoy overclocking and it annoys me when I read someone hitting 4.5 on air and a 50 dollar board and this thing I have needs 1.488v just to be semi stable on water at 4.3.


Yeah it seems I lost the silicon lottery as well. 4.2 is as high as I can get w/o getting to unacceptable temperatures. Kinda disappointed seeing that it's a 120 dollar Mobo (A88X-Pro although I got it for 43 bucks lol) and a 212 Evo.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Yeah it seems I lost the silicon lottery as well. 4.2 is as high as I can get w/o getting to unacceptable temperatures. Kinda disappointed seeing that it's a 120 dollar Mobo (A88X-Pro although I got it for 43 bucks lol) and a 212 Evo.


I can use a click, maybe two clicks less voltage and stabilize at 4.3 if I run my RAM @ 1866 1.5v. I'll probably end up doing that. I can't stabilize 4.3 with RAM at 2133 and up. I'm at work now running Prime95 blend after testing my RAM with HCI Memtest. No errors found. Hopefully when I walk in the door I'll have good news.


----------



## coffeerox

today has been nerve racking. I bought these:
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeancer-8gb-1-5v-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz8gx3m2a2133c11r

and my first pair failed memtest w/ 13k errors. Okay, so I thought it was a bad module (I've had that happen a lot during the course of building systems). So I replaced it, bring home the 2nd pair, and it errors again!! This time it wasn't extreme like 13k errors but it was still 3-5 and ONLY on the Random Numbers test (test 8). None of the minimum timings worked at 2133 (13-13-13-36) and definitely not at it's XMP profile of 11-11-11-27.

I switch it to 1866 and all of a sudden no errors. I managed to tighten the timings down to 9-10-9-28 (suspect I can reduce it to 27). It's running stable, which is good, but very disappointed that I didn't get what was advertised. I'm also a lot more wary now about modules that have an inherently low frequency but sold and advertised at XMP settings.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> today has been nerve racking. I bought these:
> http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeancer-8gb-1-5v-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz8gx3m2a2133c11r
> 
> and my first pair failed memtest w/ 13k errors. Okay, so I thought it was a bad module (I've had that happen a lot during the course of building systems). So I replaced it, bring home the 2nd pair, and it errors again!! This time it wasn't extreme like 13k errors but it was still 3-5 and ONLY on the Random Numbers test (test 8). None of the minimum timings worked at 2133 (13-13-13-36) and definitely not at it's XMP profile of 11-11-11-27.
> 
> I switch it to 1866 and all of a sudden no errors. I managed to tighten the timings down to 9-10-9-28 (suspect I can reduce it to 27). It's running stable, which is good, but very disappointed that I didn't get what was advertised. I'm also a lot more wary now about modules that have an inherently low frequency but sold and advertised at XMP settings.


It's important to realize that XMP settings are an Intel standard. What are the JEDEC spec's for the kit you have?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> It's important to realize that XMP settings are an Intel standard. What are the JEDEC spec's for the kit you have?


Starting to hate Intel lol

http://i.imgur.com/mbZVSui.png


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> It's important to realize that XMP settings are an Intel standard. What are the JEDEC spec's for the kit you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to hate Intel lol
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/mbZVSui.png
Click to expand...

The corsair kits I have owned seem to be fairly tightly binned so it's been hard for me to get very far from rated settings. ( at least since DDR2).

You might try bumping up the cpu/nb voltage a little bit and the voltage to the ram, but it may very well be that on an AMD platform, those sticks will have a hard time running at XMP settings.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> today has been nerve racking. I bought these:
> http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeancer-8gb-1-5v-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz8gx3m2a2133c11r
> 
> and my first pair failed memtest w/ 13k errors. Okay, so I thought it was a bad module (I've had that happen a lot during the course of building systems). So I replaced it, bring home the 2nd pair, and it errors again!! This time it wasn't extreme like 13k errors but it was still 3-5 and ONLY on the Random Numbers test (test 8). None of the minimum timings worked at 2133 (13-13-13-36) and definitely not at it's XMP profile of 11-11-11-27.
> 
> I switch it to 1866 and all of a sudden no errors. I managed to tighten the timings down to 9-10-9-28 (suspect I can reduce it to 27). It's running stable, which is good, but very disappointed that I didn't get what was advertised. I'm also a lot more wary now about modules that have an inherently low frequency but sold and advertised at XMP settings.


This happens sometimes with XMP kits, you'll notice if you look at the AMD made memory they have different timings/sub timings and voltages compared to XMP of the same rated speed. Intel has a stronger IMC in most cases so they can get away with not tweaking those things as much. I had a hard time getting my 7850K stable with one set of 2400mhz XMP stuff, I picked up the Radeon 2400mhz kit (it was actually pretty cheap) and it worked flawlessly.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> today has been nerve racking. I bought these:
> http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeancer-8gb-1-5v-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz8gx3m2a2133c11r
> 
> and my first pair failed memtest w/ 13k errors. Okay, so I thought it was a bad module (I've had that happen a lot during the course of building systems). So I replaced it, bring home the 2nd pair, and it errors again!! This time it wasn't extreme like 13k errors but it was still 3-5 and ONLY on the Random Numbers test (test 8). None of the minimum timings worked at 2133 (13-13-13-36) and definitely not at it's XMP profile of 11-11-11-27.
> 
> I switch it to 1866 and all of a sudden no errors. I managed to tighten the timings down to 9-10-9-28 (suspect I can reduce it to 27). It's running stable, which is good, but very disappointed that I didn't get what was advertised. I'm also a lot more wary now about modules that have an inherently low frequency but sold and advertised at XMP settings.


I think I can help. I did some digging, plus I have some experience with different type of RAM and overclocking.

First, Corsair has Ver. numbers listed on the RAM. Let us know what you have. Different version numbers are for different memory ICs. See here: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=68811

The part number you gave us is this: CMZ8GX3M2A2133C11R
I googled that and found a pic from newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233245

That picture, which may or may not be the same version as yours, but I'm going to go with it anyway, since I have nothing else, shows Ver. 5.11. That means Hynix.

I know from experience and DDR3 reviews that Hynix does not do well with flat timings. Flat meaning 11-11-11. Normally Hynix has 9-11-10, 10-12-11, or 11-13-12. You can see the pattern. Whatever the first number is, add 2 for the second, add 1 for the 3rd. Also, 27 is very tight. 28 or higher is what you normally see with Hynix.

Here is a review of some Patriot memory, which also turns out to be Hynix, with the same 11-11-11-27 timings: http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=917&page=1
Here is the overclocking page: http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=917&page=3

As you can see, those flat timings don't do so well. Here is their quote: "We don't understand why Patriot is keeping on using straight timings."

With 11-13-12-32 it would go over 2400 Mhz at under 1.6V.

If it was me, I would disable XMP, set the speed to 2133, then put in 11-13-12-32, and leave the voltage at 1.5V. Leave all other timings at Auto.
I would bet it runs fine like that. If not, then I would probably take it back and get something else.

If that does work, you could try the same timings, but 2400 Mhz, and 1.6V or 1.65V. If that works, I'd run like that and leave it alone, but you can play around if you like.


----------



## Rabit

Hm... I own both CPU X4 860K and X4 740 both at 4.5Ghz and I booth send to a friend who make some game tests:

Results to comparison are with i3-4xxx and some older CPUs:

http://overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,8,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-gtx-780

http://overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,9,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-r9-290x

Verdict: 860K in not to much faster in games in few even slower


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I think I can help. I did some digging, plus I have some experience with different type of RAM and overclocking.
> 
> First, Corsair has Ver. numbers listed on the RAM. Let us know what you have. Different version numbers are for different memory ICs. See here: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=68811


Mine is 8.15, so it's Nanya according to that chart. Anyways, thx for the replies guys, gonna try out the suggestions and report back w/ results.

update:
The timings didn't work but a voltage increase did. Set it back to XMP default and I upped the voltage by .05 to 1.55 and it passed my custom rounds of Memtest. Now, should I tighten the latencies further? Do I dare?


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Mine is 8.15, so it's Nanya according to that chart. Anyways, thx for the replies guys, gonna try out the suggestions and report back w/ results.
> 
> update:
> The timings didn't work but a voltage increase did. Set it back to XMP default and I upped the voltage by .05 to 1.55 and it passed my custom rounds of Memtest. Now, should I tighten the latencies further? Do I dare?


Nice work, at least it's working as it should now.

Wow, I haven't seen Nanya in 2133 memory before. I have two 8 GB sets of some Corsair that's 8.16, but it's DDR3 1600. I can get 1866 with 10-11-10-30, but I haven't tried higher.
Nanya overclocking examples are a bit harder to find online it seems but I'll take another look.


----------



## Rabit

I have also Corsair with Nayna 8.16
Corsair Vengage 8GB @ 2133 CL9-11-10-24 CR2 - 1.65V * I want bum up to 1,75 -1,8 but my mobo cannot do this









1866 CL 8-9-9-23 Cr 1- 1,65V * but only working at FSB 140


----------



## Rebellion88

I have just bought this CPU, any tips on how to overclock it or get the most performance possible? What temps should I be wary of, and max vcore?


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> I have just bought this CPU, any tips on how to overclock it or get the most performance possible? What temps should I be wary of, and max vcore?


Currently running my 860K at 4.4Ghz @ 1.525 with the CPU LCC set to medium, havent had any problems for a week now gaming/stress testing, although i feel my Vcore is quite high, max temps reach about 64C at these settings with my cooler.

Generally temps seem to max at 65C on my chip before throtling.

RAM is at 1600/9/9/9/24 @ 2400/10/14/12/24/1.65V

I would try 1.45~1.5V with 4.2~4.5ghz, CPU LCC might need to be set to medium/high.

These seem to be the basic settings everyone's working with more or less.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Currently running my 860K at 4.4Ghz @ 1.525 with the CPU LCC set to medium, havent had any problems for a week now gaming/stress testing, although i feel my Vcore is quite high, max temps reach about 64C at these settings with my cooler.
> 
> Generally temps seem to max at 65C on my chip before throtling.
> 
> RAM is at 1600/9/9/9/24 @ 2400/10/14/12/24/1.65V
> 
> I would try 1.45~1.5V with 4.2~4.5ghz, CPU LCC might need to be set to medium/high.
> 
> These seem to be the basic settings everyone's working with more or less.


The Stilt says that Kaveri CPUs max out performance between (actual) 1.45 and 1.475V Vcore. You can go higher, but the performance will not increase. And that 1.49V is the process breakdown voltage.

860K should be good for 4.3-4.4GHz at 1.45V, perhaps even 4.5GHz


----------



## kxnxng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> The Stilt says that Kaveri CPUs max out performance between (actual) 1.45 and 1.475V Vcore. You can go higher, but the performance will not increase. And that 1.49V is the process breakdown voltage.
> 
> 860K should be good for 4.3-4.4GHz at 1.45V, perhaps even 4.5GHz


Mine simply wont stay stable at anything lower than my current settings/voltage, 1.5V for example remains stable for multiple hours and crashed, with my current settings no crashes have happened yet.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> Mine simply wont stay stable at anything lower than my current settings/voltage, 1.5V for example remains stable for multiple hours and crashed, with my current settings no crashes have happened yet.


I run higher than that. I'm not worried.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I run higher than that. I'm not worried.


You can always buy another one









I like to keep my computer hardware under the recommended limits.


----------



## DannyDK

Have had a 7850k run at 1.55 since launch, the guy i sold it to still uses it at that voltage and its been for a year and a half now, so i dont think these Kaveri chips would/should die to easely


----------



## tone1492

A Few of you guys just answered one of my future questions. I'm about to pick up a couple of SP fans and run a push pull on my 120 mil rad. I don't have the best fan on it right now, but I'm about to go balls to the wall on the vcore once I make the switch. 1.55v and once stable I'll use power saving in the BIOS for everyday use. Maybe I can hit 4.5, definitely 4.4.

Any recommendations on SP fans for radiators?


----------



## Rabit

Scythe Mugen and Ram Clearane on A88XM-A do not looks good, i needed bend cooler











Need also mount CPU cooler in crazy way









http://s21.postimg.org/t8ohtztl2/IMG_20150728_155138.jpg

And also because I has to small space between PSU and Cpu cooler I move PSU outside


----------



## tone1492

Picked up two Corsair SP High Performance fans and put them in push/ pull config on my 120 millimeter rad. I had an Enermax LED fan on it before and it didn't push much air through the fins. This setup saved me between 12-14 degrees on my thermal margin, but these fans are loud as hell. My PC is on the floor under my desk so the noise doesn't bother me too much. Basically 30 bucks bought me amazing static pressure, cooler CPU temps, 200 MHz greater OC, and a louder PC. Worth it I'd say.







Old Setup



New Setup


----------



## drmrlordx

Lately I have been surprised by some of the 860k silicon lottery losing chips reported in here. 1.536v for 4.391 GHz with an all-out cooling attack like that? Makes me sad to see it. At least it shows that effort can pay off, regardless.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Lately I have been surprised by some of the 860k silicon lottery losing chips reported in here. 1.536v for 4.391 GHz with an all-out cooling attack like that? Makes me sad to see it.


I was thinking the same thing. Especially since some of the guys in the Kaveri forum were getting 4.2-4.3 on stock volts.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. Especially since some of the guys in the Kaveri forum were getting 4.2-4.3 on stock volts.


It's a likely reason that these are binned as 860Ks instead of A8s or A10s. The stock VIDs and leakage are too high. If the iGPU was enabled it would be way out of TDP spec.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Lately I have been surprised by some of the 860k silicon lottery losing chips reported in here. 1.536v for 4.391 GHz with an all-out cooling attack like that? Makes me sad to see it. At least it shows that effort can pay off, regardless.


Yeah imagine how I felt when I first bought it lol. I'm not upset anymore though. I think having this bad chip improved my overclocking experience. I learned a lot more since I had to fight with it so much. I just need it to last me til Zen or Skylake. I'm using power saving modes and 4.3GHz 1.48v as everyday usage.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well my 860K is back up and running, thankfully I didn't have time to do anything with it. I killed my Z97 board with a faulty 7V fan adapter, luckily I had grabbed an A88X-UP4 off of a member on here prior to that so it showed up yesterday. This board doesn't seem to be as good as the XBR was, it will not run the same RAM at 2400 or even 2133, I get a post error 5d if I try to go over 1600mhz right now.

Does anyone know which monitoring software works well with the gigabyte board? I tried AOD but its showing me having 70*+ thermal margins even when fully loaded, and HWMonitor shows -7*C.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well my 860K is back up and running, thankfully I didn't have time to do anything with it. I killed my Z97 board with a faulty 7V fan adapter, luckily I had grabbed an A88X-UP4 off of a member on here prior to that so it showed up yesterday. This board doesn't seem to be as good as the XBR was, it will not run the same RAM at 2400 or even 2133, I get a post error 5d if I try to go over 1600mhz right now.
> 
> Does anyone know which monitoring software works well with the gigabyte board? I tried AOD but its showing me having 70*+ thermal margins even when fully loaded, and HWMonitor shows -7*C.


Could try hwinfo or core temp, but my APU's are a bit finicky about temp reads.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Could try hwinfo or core temp, but my APU's are a bit finicky about temp reads.


I'll give HWinfo a shot, coretemp just says the 860K isn't supported. I thought Gigabytes Easytune6 had some kind of temp monitor but ti doesn't, all it managed to do was automatically ramp all my fans to 100% lol.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Could try hwinfo or core temp, but my APU's are a bit finicky about temp reads.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give HWinfo a shot, coretemp just says the 860K isn't supported. I thought Gigabytes Easytune6 had some kind of temp monitor but ti doesn't, all it managed to do was automatically ramp all my fans to 100% lol.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is a tough one, speedfan is about the only one I can think of beyond those.


----------



## 7850K

I have a UP4 and have used AOD since day 1. Running other temp monitors at the same time is the only time I've seen the margin number freeze or show incorrectly.
In HWMonitor the temp is shown under motherboard TMPIN2 I believe.


----------



## tone1492

I have the same board and Speed Fan is pretty accurate when I compare it to the thermal margin in Overdrive. HWinfo is pretty accurate too. Gigabyte Easytune does have a CPU temp monitor and it's accurate as well.


----------



## Scorpion49

Do you guys have F7 BIOS? I'm wondering if my BIOS is corrupt, I'm having a really hard time even installing windows, constant BSOD and errors about file corruption. The seller said the board was good but I had him update the BIOS before shipping for Kaveri support.


----------



## Rebellion88

What is the max temp of the 860k? Mine idles around 45c and under a load around 58c. I found speedfan and AOD the best two.


----------



## 7850K

I'm on F6. I think F7 is for godveri. I'd try reflashing to F6.

72 is the max temp before thermal throttling. My setup idles around 36 and under full load hangs around 54.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I'm on F6. I think F7 is for godveri. I'd try reflashing to F6.


Thats what it says on the site too, maybe tomorrow I'll flash it back to F6 and see how she runs. I managed to get into windows with a pre-installed hard drive from my Asus board and open CPU-Z before it crashed and it read my BIOS as W'''*^&@#%$ or something like that.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

You guys who are running ASUS boards, would you recommend flashing back to 1703? I currently have 2001


----------



## Scorpion49

Okay, so I reflashed my UP4 to F7 and it seems to have fixed the terrible instability that I was having. It still doesn't want to run the RAM at 2400mhz though, which was perfectly stable on the Asus board. I read a few people having a hard time with 2400mhz on the Gigabyte though, so I'm running it at 1866 8-8-8-26 1T right now and it seems pretty snappy.


----------



## 7850K

I could never get my 2400 g.skill kit to run at rated speed/latencies on the UP4(tried everything). But 2133 9-11-10-28 1.65v worked without a hitch so I didn't fret too much.


----------



## damric

How much are you raising CPU-NB? The X.M.P. profile requests 1.25v but you can certainly try more.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I could never get my 2400 g.skill kit to run at rated speed/latencies on the UP4(tried everything). But 2133 9-11-10-28 1.65v worked without a hitch so I didn't fret too much.


Well, I figured out half of the problem, my DDR3_1 slot is bad or damaged somehow. I was running memtest on each slot at a time as I increased the speed I was running the memory at and slot 1 (the furthest one from the socket) won't even POST if anything is installed in there 80% of the time, the other 20% of the time it will hang or get to windows and crash.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> You guys who are running ASUS boards, would you recommend flashing back to 1703? I currently have 2001


It can't hurt to try. I was the first one to have success with that strategy. Here's the saga of what happened: http://www.overclock.net/t/1558273/a88x-pro-bios-2001/0_100

In a nutshell, 1902 would barely maintain my overclock, and I couldn't run higher than stock on 2001, but going back to 1703 made everything work again, with a fully stable 4.5 GHz overclock.

Not everyone is reporting the same results. A lot of people with 860K's have reported that it makes no difference for them, and I think a few even have better results with the Godavari-optimized revisions on the A88X-Pro and the Crossblade Ranger, which is functionally very similar. It can't hurt you to try, and you can always reflash it back to 2001 if need be. None of these chips functions exactly alike, and my chip seems to be an outlier in other ways. It has higher leakage (or a very poor application of TIM under the lid) than most 860K's, and it's helpless if you try to overclock using the offset mode. The only thing that works is old-school fixed voltage settings.


----------



## coffeerox

(A88X-Pro user here) I flashed first to the latest using Bios Flashback (is it 2001?, I forget). At that time, I didn't have the 212 Evo, and I was seeing bad/unstable temps, so I flashed to 1703 b/c of what I read here. I haven't ran into any issues so far except that memory thing (which was resolved by upping DRAM voltage by .05).

Btw, I had a surprising find on Friday. I noticed on AI Suite III that the voltage was climbing to 1.5+ for Turbo past 3.7. This was surely too high so I manually overclocked to 4.0 and it actually runs cooler and lower voltage than it was on auto. Reenabled the power saving settings and it's worked great ever since.

One weird thing was that when I installed AI Suite III (the one that came w/ the Mobo) the CPU was running hotter (around 54c thermal margin at 1700mhz vs. 70c at 1700mhz). I couldn't uninstall AI Suite III so I had to use a 3rd party to force uninstall it and clean up the files manually afterwards.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Okay, so I reflashed my UP4 to F7 and it seems to have fixed the terrible instability that I was having. It still doesn't want to run the RAM at 2400mhz though, which was perfectly stable on the Asus board. I read a few people having a hard time with 2400mhz on the Gigabyte though, so I'm running it at 1866 8-8-8-26 1T right now and it seems pretty snappy.


I have a GSkill Trident X kit on the UP4 and I can run XMP 2400 at stock 10-12-12-31 1.65v no issues. I'm running my RAM now at 2133 because it seems my overclocks are a tad bit more stable.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have a GSkill Trident X kit on the UP4 and I can run XMP 2400 at stock 10-12-12-31 1.65v no issues. I'm running my RAM now at 2133 because it seems my overclocks are a tad bit more stable.


Yeah, I found out I have a bad slot.


----------



## tone1492

Is there a plan to produce a Zen based APU?


----------



## Rebellion88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Is there a plan to produce a Zen based APU?


So I have heard, whether or not its a rumour, also supposed to have quite a few cores on 14nm as well.


----------



## Rebellion88

Please can someone just clarify a few things for me the max temp should be 70c, at what temp will it start to throttle. Its just so I can gauge where I need to be when I overclock it.

Also what settings should I change in the bios before I start messing with the Voltage and Multiplier?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> Please can someone just clarify a few things for me the max temp should be 70c, at what temp will it start to throttle. Its just so I can gauge where I need to be when I overclock it.
> 
> Also what settings should I change in the bios before I start messing with the Voltage and Multiplier?


My particular CPU has a max temp of 82 according to AMD Overdrive. Before I changed out my cooling my CPU would throttle at around 6-7 degrees within the thermal margin. Now I never get that close since going with a SP fan, push/ pull setup.

The things I needed to disable in my Gigabyte BIOS to prevent pre-mature throttling was Cool and Quiet, APM, and C6 Mode. Any power saving modes need to be disabled when overclocking and stress testing. I reset all of these and used offset voltage after I found stability.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> My particular CPU has a max temp of 82 according to AMD Overdrive. Before I changed out my cooling my CPU would throttle at around 6-7 degrees within the thermal margin. Now I never get that close since going with a SP fan, push/ pull setup.


Thermal margin value is not expressed in degrees Celsius. The value appears to be dimensionless, calculated from various sensors on the CPU. You can't add the thermal margin value on top of the current temperature to get an absolute max temperature for the CPU, it just does not work like that. The value is displayed as degrees only because AOD used to show an approximate CPU temperature in Celsius before.

Kaveri should throttle at 64 degrees Celsius (motherboard CPU input, TMPIN2 for Gigabyte boards), according to initial reviews, and 860K is a Kaveri die


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Upgraded to Win10 and saw a 400 point increase in SkyDiver!! Woot Woot!!


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> Please can someone just clarify a few things for me the max temp should be 70c, at what temp will it start to throttle. Its just so I can gauge where I need to be when I overclock it.
> 
> Also what settings should I change in the bios before I start messing with the Voltage and Multiplier?


http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-7850K.html
Kaveri's max temp is 72. I'd keep it below 62, or above 10 thermal margin.

disable turbo core for starters.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Thermal margin value is not expressed in degrees Celsius. The value appears to be dimensionless, calculated from various sensors on the CPU. You can't add the thermal margin value on top of the current temperature to get an absolute max temperature for the CPU, it just does not work like that. The value is displayed as degrees only because AOD used to show an approximate CPU temperature in Celsius before.
> 
> Kaveri should throttle at 64 degrees Celsius (motherboard CPU input, TMPIN2 for Gigabyte boards), according to initial reviews, and 860K is a Kaveri die


Ok thanks for the correction


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Ok thanks for the correction


Perhaps I made an error about the exact temperature reading that at 64 degrees Celsius triggers thermal throttling. Anyway, in my opinion, the best way to read the temperature is to use the motherboard CPU reading as a primary reading, and use Thermal margin to check on temperature under load when setting up the CPU OC and verifying general stability.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Upgraded to Win10 and saw a 400 point increase in SkyDiver!! Woot Woot!!


Whoa I just saw this!!!!!! Excited now. Did you do a clean install?


----------



## coffeerox

Speaking of Windows 10, under display adapter properties, it's showing Total Graphics Memory as 6114 even though dedicated VRAM is only 2048. Shared Memory is at 4066. Is this normal? I'm wondering if it could be a bug where it's seeing the 860K as an APU and so it's sharing memory as if it were the 7850K. I've ran into graphical glitches in each of the games I've played so far (Witcher 3, GTA V and Shadow of Mordor) all of them the same and for the life of me I can't find the root of the problem.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Whoa I just saw this!!!!!! Excited now. Did you do a clean install?


Yupp, did the upgrade, validated







, downloaded the ISO, used Rufus to make a UEFI USB install, wiped the drive and clean installed.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Yupp, did the upgrade, validated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , downloaded the ISO, used Rufus to make a UEFI USB install, wiped the drive and clean installed.


Yeah I want to go the same route but I've heard stories where ppl have done clean Win 10 installs and are having trouble validating their keys. Forcing ppl to do a straight upgrade.


----------



## Himo5

I had that trouble - couldn't get the iso to recognize my key - so I did a clean install of W8.1, set it up as I wanted it, did the activation then ran setup.exe on the iso DVD *inside Windows* and it upgraded like a charm with no need for a new key.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Yeah I want to go the same route but I've heard stories where ppl have done clean Win 10 installs and are having trouble validating their keys. Forcing ppl to do a straight upgrade.


Hmmm... I read that too and was a little worried at first. I just made sure that after the upgrade it was validated, then wiped the drive. Just to add, and not sure if it is relevant, but I did use the Microsoft tool to download the ISO.


----------



## Scorpion49

Alright, so I was having a little bit of a stutter/lag problem on the desktop with my 860K, I found that disabling Cool&Quiet fixed it. Anyone else notice this with the Gigabyte boards? It didn't give me any problems on the Asus. I'm going to try to get up to 2000mhz NB again once I have a few hours to spare to testing stability, that was a big improvement on the XBR.

Here is that FF bench with everything at stock so I can see how it improves:



As a side note, I really like this Sapphire R9 380 Nitro 4G, very quiet and nicely built for the price and it seems to be faster than a 960. Good solid card to pair with this CPU.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> As a side note, I really like this Sapphire R9 380 Nitro 4G, very quiet and nicely built for the price and it seems to be faster than a 960. Good solid card to pair with this CPU.


That's awesome man! I plan on replacing my 270x Toxic w/ one of those somewhere down the line


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> That's awesome man! I plan on replacing my 270x Toxic w/ one of those somewhere down the line


Yeah it's a huge boost over a 270X, kind of weird though it's short in length but taller than the PCIE slot.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Alright, so I was having a little bit of a stutter/lag problem on the desktop with my 860K, I found that disabling Cool&Quiet fixed it. Anyone else notice this with the Gigabyte boards? It didn't give me any problems on the Asus. I'm going to try to get up to 2000mhz NB again once I have a few hours to spare to testing stability, that was a big improvement on the XBR.
> 
> Here is that FF bench with everything at stock so I can see how it improves:
> 
> 
> 
> As a side note, I really like this Sapphire R9 380 Nitro 4G, very quiet and nicely built for the price and it seems to be faster than a 960. Good solid card to pair with this CPU.


After I stabilized my OC I enabled Cool and Quiet and C6 as well. No stuttering at all with my UP4. I built my PC a month before the 300 series dropped. Bought the 960 4G and I'm very happy, but it would have been nice to been able to choose between the two.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> That's awesome man! I plan on replacing my 270x Toxic w/ one of those somewhere down the line


380X with full Tonga or nothing! Your move AMD.


----------



## coffeerox

So I did a FFXIV benchmark for the heck of it. Couldn't change the settings outside of DX11 so I just ran it as is. I lol'ed at the score (coincidence?)



edit:

managed to change the settings. For some reason, the OK/cancel button is gone but I found a way to tab over to it. So here's 2 runs, one in 1366x768 (fullscreen, high desktop, main monitor) and second in 1080p (my TV)

CPU is overclocked to 4.0ghz with an offset voltage of +.006



edit2 (max):


----------



## jsc1973

I got my Win 10 upgrade last night. I'll have to run this again when I get home to see if it helped my scores.

Still going to get the crap beat out of me by you guys with newer GPU's, though.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I got my Win 10 upgrade last night. I'll have to run this again when I get home to see if it helped my scores.
> 
> Still going to get the crap beat out of me by you guys with newer GPU's, though.


Windows 10 seems to have improved my scores across the board for every single bench I have tried on both of my systems. Definitely feels like an improvement over 7/8.1, and I've only had one compatibility issue which was with my Xonar DGX drivers (or lack thereof, Asus has only had beta drivers for 8/8.1 since the card released years ago).


----------



## tone1492

CPU is at 4.2 GHz and my MSI GTX 960 4GB overclocked to 1547 MHz core and 3888 MHz memory. Also I usually force 16X anisotropic filtering through Nvidia control panel and disable it in games, but for the sake of this benchmark I disabled it in the panel and left the benchmark at maximum. Gonna run this at 1440p and 4k just for the hell of it.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Will this cooler work with the athlon x4 860k? To be exact here is my motherboard and cooler model numbers. 
RR-212E-20PK-R2 for the evo 
Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4 for the motherboard 
Athlon x4 860k black edition


----------



## coffeerox

I was thinking....Nvidia Gameworks games tend to have absurdly high tessellation. So I ran the test again w/ x32 tessellation set at Catalyst. Score went from 5779 to 5902.

edit: @x16, score went from 5902 to 5962. So I guess that's as optimized as it's going to get as far as tessellation is concerned.


----------



## drmrlordx

The 212 Evo will do just fine on an 860k. How far it'll get you will have a lot to do with chip+board. If your 860k is like some of the more recent samples around here, you may hit a voltage scaling wall around 4.3 GHz, though the 212 Evo is definitely capable of taking this chip to 4.5 GHz when it's in the mood to get there. Silicon lottery and all that.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well, I think my problems with the UD4 definitely stem from a bad memory slot. I just now noticed Windows was only showing 4GB installed, check out what happens when I switch from slots 1+3 to 2+4 (4 in BIOS is slot 1 as labeled on the board itself and in the manual):


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> The 212 Evo will do just fine on an 860k. How far it'll get you will have a lot to do with chip+board. If your 860k is like some of the more recent samples around here, you may hit a voltage scaling wall around 4.3 GHz, though the 212 Evo is definitely capable of taking this chip to 4.5 GHz when it's in the mood to get there. Silicon lottery and all that.


I definitely have one of the worst chips in this forum. 4.4 GHz 1.55v under water in a push/pull, 4.5 needs too much voltage smh. Honestly at this point after having this build since late May I would not even recommend this CPU, as you said the samples lately have crazy voltage leakage. With Skylake now here a lot of new builders should be able to find deal on a Core i5 4460 or even a 4690K, especially those who live in a MicroCenter city like I do.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I definitely have one of the worst chips in this forum. 4.4 GHz 1.55v under water in a push/pull, 4.5 needs too much voltage smh. Honestly at this point after having this build since late May I would not even recommend this CPU, as you said the samples lately have crazy voltage leakage. With Skylake now here a lot of new builders should be able to find deal on a Core i5 4460 or even a 4690K, especially those who live in a MicroCenter city like I do.


Thats unlucky man, mine does 4.4ghz at stock volts. I haven't actually gone any higher because I don't have a decent cooler for it







Pretty new chip too, I think I bought it in July.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Thats unlucky man, mine does 4.4ghz at stock volts. I haven't actually gone any higher because I don't have a decent cooler for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty new chip too, I think I bought it in July.


Yeah rub the salt in the wounds man.


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys,

I want a lil of advice, I have been reading the thread but somehow I can't figure out some stuff. I want to start overclocking a bit, now that I got some new parts, but I have no experience overclocking, tho I learn stuff fast. I will look for some guides for overclocking on FM2.

I use to play some mmos like Guild Wars 2, that could really benefit from more CPU juice and I want to stay on budget. Also I play the Witcher 3 and other games. I notice that my CPU goes up to 99% or 100% in some of those games while my GPU sits on less than 70% in some cases.

Since I want to get the max out of the FM2 platform I own, I have some questions? Should I replace my A8 6600K for the 860K?, if there's at least 8 - 10 FPS increase on that kind of games (mmos) I would do it. Also if I get the 860K, with my current system (in my sig), what would be the most decent and safe overclock I could achieve? I don't really want something extreme, but something that could get me increased performance.

Thanks for all your help in advance!


----------



## drmrlordx

What board do you have? Kaveri chips, in my opinion, don't do all that well on anything other than A88x boards.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> What board do you have? Kaveri chips, in my opinion, don't do all that well on anything other than A88x boards.


I got an ASUS A88X-PLUS


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I want a lil of advice, I have been reading the thread but somehow I can't figure out some stuff. I want to start overclocking a bit, now that I got some new parts, but I have no experience overclocking, tho I learn stuff fast. I will look for some guides for overclocking on FM2.
> 
> I use to play some mmos like Guild Wars 2, that could really benefit from more CPU juice and I want to stay on budget. Also I play the Witcher 3 and other games. I notice that my CPU goes up to 99% or 100% in some of those games while my GPU sits on less than 70% in some cases.
> 
> Since I want to get the max out of the FM2 platform I own, I have some questions? Should I replace my A8 6600K for the 860K?, if there's at least 8 - 10 FPS increase on that kind of games (mmos) I would do it. Also if I get the 860K, with my current system (in my sig), what would be the most decent and safe overclock I could achieve? I don't really want something extreme, but something that could get me increased performance.
> 
> Thanks for all your help in advance!


Even if you get a bad overclocker (I got a horrible one) 4.2 GHz is almost a given with at least the Hyper 212 EVO. I know the Asus Pro is one of the best on the A88X chipset, but the Plus should be fine too.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I use to play some mmos like Guild Wars 2, that could really benefit from more CPU juice and I want to stay on budget. Also I play the Witcher 3 and other games. I notice that my CPU goes up to 99% or 100% in some of those games while my GPU sits on less than 70% in some cases.


Hmm, I haven't logged into my Guild Wars 2 account ever since my dual core/xfire 6670's so I can't tell you how it works on the 860K. Witcher 3 though, I've been playing a lot of that. Even on the 860K, there are going to be areas where CPU is going to skyrocket and FPS will plummet. It doesn't happen all the time though. Those areas are very few and far in between. Outside of that though, 50-60fps everywhere else.
Quote:


> Should I replace my A8 6600K for the 860K?, if there's at least 8 - 10 FPS increase on that kind of games (mmos) I would do it.


It might be worth it. It's a cheap upgrade. 60 bucks on a great deal or used if you can manage to catch it. You're definitely getting more IPC with the 860K.
Quote:


> Also if I get the 860K, with my current system (in my sig), what would be the most decent and safe overclock I could achieve?


Depends on your cooler I guess. With the 212 Evo, safe overclock for me is 4.2ghz. I hit the voltage scaling wall at 4.3, plus thermal margin is at it's limit (12c and goes into single digits from there)


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Even if you get a bad overclocker (I got a horrible one) 4.2 GHz is almost a given with at least the Hyper 212 EVO. I know the Asus Pro is one of the best on the A88X chipset, but the Plus should be fine too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Hmm, I haven't logged into my Guild Wars 2 account ever since my dual core/xfire 6670's so I can't tell you how it works on the 860K. Witcher 3 though, I've been playing a lot of that. Even on the 860K, there are going to be areas where CPU is going to skyrocket and FPS will plummet. It doesn't happen all the time though. Those areas are very few and far in between. Outside of that though, 50-60fps everywhere else.
> It might be worth it. It's a cheap upgrade. 60 bucks on a great deal or used if you can manage to catch it. You're definitely getting more IPC with the 860K.
> Depends on your cooler I guess. With the 212 Evo, safe overclock for me is 4.2ghz. I hit the voltage scaling wall at 4.3, plus thermal margin is at it's limit (12c and goes into single digits from there)


Thanks for your replies. I think I will grab the 860K and give it a try









Btw would you recommend me any good guide or tips for overclocking on FM2+? Thanks


----------



## Scorpion49

I tried GW2 on my 860k, seems to run pretty decently although I didn't go into any massively populated areas. One of my friends plays GW2 a whole lot for the PvP (game isn't really my favorite personally) with no issues on a stock FX4300 which should be slower overall, I think he has a 750ti and gets good frame rates at medium-high settings. They improved a lot from when it first came out.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I got an ASUS A88X-PLUS


That will be fine for an 860k. Assuming it has the same UEFI as the A88x-Pro (or something very close to it), several people in here can walk you through a basic overclock.

First thing you'll want to do is get it all set up and check what voltage setting the board gives you as default. Also make sure your UEFI revision supports the 860k. You may have to flash it.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I tried GW2 on my 860k, seems to run pretty decently although I didn't go into any massively populated areas. One of my friends plays GW2 a whole lot for the PvP (game isn't really my favorite personally) with no issues on a stock FX4300 which should be slower overall, I think he has a 750ti and gets good frame rates at medium-high settings. They improved a lot from when it first came out.


Thanks! Yeah atm with the A8 6600K goes well until I hit world vs world.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> That will be fine for an 860k. Assuming it has the same UEFI as the A88x-Pro (or something very close to it), several people in here can walk you through a basic overclock.
> 
> First thing you'll want to do is get it all set up and check what voltage setting the board gives you as default. Also make sure your UEFI revision supports the 860k. You may have to flash it.


I was checking and the UEFI BIOS is pretty much the same.


----------



## tone1492

I've noticed this CPU even at 4.4 GHz has sky high usage in almost every game I play, save the least demanding of games. I never really hit 100% on any core, but between 70-90% and sometimes more on a consistent basis under game load.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Im beginning to wonder if I got a bad motherboard or cpu at this point. I have worked for the better part of a day trying almost every different combination I can think of to get it to boot. For the record, I have the 860K and was pairing it up with the gigabyte ga-f2a88x-up4. Im not getting any power to the onboard usb ports at all, even with on the cpu an mem as the only things installed on the MB. I have power to the board as when I pull the 8pin cpu plug an boot the digital display that gives error codes doent light up. Could the bios really affect all that since im running the 860K?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Btw would you recommend me any good guide or tips for overclocking on FM2+? Thanks


Honestly I had no guides to go on. I looked at other guides to get a general clue and I googled each of the settings so I know which power saving functions to disable. Overclocking it is pretty easy. You're basically manually adjusting the multiplier and the voltage of the CPU. Test for stability, repeat until hang, adjust settings. You can get to 4.1 or 4.2 easy but then at 4.3 the fun starts lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I've noticed this CPU even at 4.4 GHz has sky high usage in almost every game I play, save the least demanding of games. I never really hit 100% on any core, but between 70-90% and sometimes more on a consistent basis under game load.


if you're talking about AAA games, then, yep. As long as GPU usage is also 70-99% then it's fine. There are problem areas though, like in Witcher 3, where CPU usage will skyrocket and in turn hurt FPS. GPU usage goes down too.

It's just poor programming in my opinion. A week or so ago, I saw this glitch in Novigrad where outside parts of buildings were not yet rendered, so you could see in the inside of those buildings, complete with NPC's, their animations and everything. It's excessive to say the least. I don't think we have anything to worry about though. It looks like system specs are set for the rest of this generation.


----------



## VordaVor

Question: If I want the best of both worlds, i.e I want to overclock as much as possible, without turning off some power saving features, do I turn off APM master mode ? Does this mode only relate to CPB turbo mode and nothing else ? For now, I plan to leave only AMD powernow function as my only means of saving power. C6 is disabled already, cause it gives me some serious CPU coil whine.

Also, I've read you guys have pretty low stock voltages, all below 1.5v. I just overclocked to 4200Mhz and currently testing with prime95 and my AIDA64 shows my CPU core at 1.512v. I never touched the voltages, why is it so high ?

I think I've set my CLL to medium, will confirm later though.

Edit: CLL is medium. I had a rounding error on one of my cores in prime95, @4200Mhz, 1.512v. Could my chip be the new candidate for lowest OCer here ?








Edit 2: Looks like turning off APM master mode improved my stability. Now I have no issues running above mentioned frequency and voltage. Will try lowering voltage and increasing multiplier further and will post results.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I just overclocked to 4200Mhz and currently testing with prime95 and my AIDA64 shows my CPU core at 1.512v. I never touched the voltages, why is it so high ?


My Asus A88X Pro does this. As soon as I manually adjust the multi from stock it instantly runs 1.512V. Just back it down or keep rampimg up the multiplier. I am almost positive you can do better than 4.2 with that amount of voltage. I run 4.3 @ 1.456V (1.475 in bios) no LLC. I would leave LLC off and all power savings until you finalize a stable OC and voltage.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> My Asus A88X Pro does this. As soon as I manually adjust the multi from stock it instantly runs 1.512V. Just back it down or keep rampimg up the multiplier. I am almost positive you can do better than 4.2 with that amount of voltage. I run 4.3 @ 1.456V (1.475 in bios) no LLC. I would leave LLC off and all power savings until you finalize a stable OC and voltage.


I'm excited. I managed to shave the voltage to 1.472 (AIDA64), around 1.49 in BIOS and have it boot on 4300Mhz. That lowered my temps by 2-3C. Now I'm stressing it for 3-4 hours in prime95, custom 5GB RAM test, to test it all around.

I can't even boot at the voltage you have unfortunately. If I turn off LLC, do you think I could go even lower on the voltage ? Or it doesn't work that way ?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Question: If I want the best of both worlds, i.e I want to overclock as much as possible, without turning off some power saving features, do I turn off APM master mode ? Does this mode only relate to CPB turbo mode and nothing else ? For now, I plan to leave only AMD powernow function as my only means of saving power. C6 is disabled already, cause it gives me some serious CPU coil whine.
> 
> Also, I've read you guys have pretty low stock voltages, all below 1.5v. I just overclocked to 4200Mhz and currently testing with prime95 and my AIDA64 shows my CPU core at 1.512v. I never touched the voltages, why is it so high ?
> 
> I think I've set my CLL to medium, will confirm later though.
> 
> Edit: CLL is medium. I had a rounding error on one of my cores in prime95, @4200Mhz, 1.512v. Could my chip be the new candidate for lowest OCer here ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit 2: Looks like turning off APM master mode improved my stability. Now I have no issues running above mentioned frequency and voltage. Will try lowering voltage and increasing multiplier further and will post results.


I would recommend that you reset the BIOS parameters to default. That way you can start experimenting by adjusting a few (or only one) parameters at a time. Try turning off APM, CPB and optionally C6. Both LLC settings should go to 'High' (Asus 'High' == Gigabyte 'Medium'). CPU voltage setting mode should be 'offset', and set to only one step (+ 0.00625V) to prevent the board overvolting the CPU. When you verify that this is working as it should, use AMD Msr Tweaker to adjust P-States.

See how much voltage you need for each of CPU multipliers (from 3700MHz onwards). In my experience (A10-7870K) from 3600MHz to 4000MHz-4100MHz, for each 100MHz you need approx. 5 voltage steps (+0.3125V) more. After that you might need up to 7 or 8 voltage steps (0.4375 to 0.5V) for the next 100MHz. Your milage may vary and all that.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I'm excited. I managed to shave the voltage to 1.472 (AIDA64), around 1.49 in BIOS and have it boot on 4300Mhz. That lowered my temps by 2-3C. Now I'm stressing it for 3-4 hours in prime95, custom 5GB RAM test, to test it all around.
> 
> I can't even boot at the voltage you have unfortunately. If I turn off LLC, do you think I could go even lower on the voltage ? Or it doesn't work that way ?


You will need tighter LLC settings to reduce voltage. Higher settings reduce the voltage spread, but increase VRM workload. Set it to 'High' but avoid 'Extreme'.

According to the Stilt, Kaveri based CPUs achieve peak performance between 1.45 and 1.475 V. After that voltage range you can get more speed, but the performance does not increase. Also according to The Stilt, Kaveri 'yellow' voltage limit is 1.45V and 'red' (serious degradation) limit is 1.49V.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> You will need tighter LLC settings to reduce voltage. Higher settings reduce the voltage spread, but increase VRM workload. Set it to 'High' but avoid 'Extreme'.


Did you, or anyone else by any chance, had bios freezing issues, when trying to undervolt CPU ? After almost 3 hours of successful prime95 torture test (4300Mhz @ 1.47 showing in CPUz), I restarted my PC to tweak some settings, only to find out that the PC froze while restarting! It even froze again in bios, using the same voltages that kept it running all that time in prime95! The CLL was set to Auto, as I forgot to change it back after my first bios restart.
After clearing cmos again, and having everything back in place, except my 4300Mhz attempts, the freezing stopped. I just don't understand why it needs that much voltage only to keep it from freezing, even in bios...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> According to the Stilt, Kaveri based CPUs achieve peak performance between 1.45 and 1.475 V. After that voltage range you can get more speed, but the performance does not increase. Also according to The Stilt, Kaveri 'yellow' voltage limit is 1.45V and 'red' (serious degradation) limit is 1.49V.


Is that the voltage shown in bios, or in programs ?


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

I found where you can flash the bios from a stick drive, but I can't get any of my usb ports to work either. I beginning to wonder if the MB or CPU is toast. When I bought the MB from outlet pc, there was an option to have them test it before shipping. I think you could also have them flash the newest bios as well for a small fee. Im beginning to think I will have to have a older donor CPU to get the board to boot just so I can flash the new bios.

Well, I call OutletPC an ask about shipping the motherboard back to them to update the bios, an pay shipping both ways. 59.00 not counting the shipping costs! *** Anyone got old fm2 socket cpu that would be willing to let me borrow for a few days to update the bios with. I would provide the shipping both ways, an some beer money for your trouble LOL


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I've noticed this CPU even at 4.4 GHz has sky high usage in almost every game I play, save the least demanding of games. I never really hit 100% on any core, but between 70-90% and sometimes more on a consistent basis under game load.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Honestly I had no guides to go on. I looked at other guides to get a general clue and I googled each of the settings so I know which power saving functions to disable. Overclocking it is pretty easy. You're basically manually adjusting the multiplier and the voltage of the CPU. Test for stability, repeat until hang, adjust settings. You can get to 4.1 or 4.2 easy but then at 4.3 the fun starts lol
> if you're talking about AAA games, then, yep. As long as GPU usage is also 70-99% then it's fine. There are problem areas though, like in Witcher 3, where CPU usage will skyrocket and in turn hurt FPS. GPU usage goes down too.
> 
> It's just poor programming in my opinion. A week or so ago, I saw this glitch in Novigrad where outside parts of buildings were not yet rendered, so you could see in the inside of those buildings, complete with NPC's, their animations and everything. It's excessive to say the least. I don't think we have anything to worry about though. It looks like system specs are set for the rest of this generation.


Thanks for your answers guys









I started looking for info around. Is it better if I overclock setting a manual voltage in the BIOS or am I better off setting it by using offset?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Question: If I want the best of both worlds, i.e I want to overclock as much as possible, without turning off some power saving features, do I turn off APM master mode?


I only turn it off to find stability at the frequency I'm on. Once everything is tested, I turn all that stuff back on.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I started looking for info around. Is it better if I overclock setting a manual voltage in the BIOS or am I better off setting it by using offset?


Finding an offset will later set you up to re-enable the power saving settings.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> You will need tighter LLC settings to reduce voltage. Higher settings reduce the voltage spread, but increase VRM workload. Set it to 'High' but avoid 'Extreme'.


Guess I do things a little differently. I have always found my stable OC and voltage first, then adjusted LLC accordingly while lowering CPU voltage to reach the target stable voltage under load. I recall my 760K having 0 Vdroop and no LLC was needed at all, yet my 860K droops a ton under load, but LLC even on medium overshoots which isn't a good thing.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> I found where you can flash the bios from a stick drive, but I can't get any of my usb ports to work either. I beginning to wonder if the MB or CPU is toast. When I bought the MB from outlet pc, there was an option to have them test it before shipping. I think you could also have them flash the newest bios as well for a small fee. Im beginning to think I will have to have a older donor CPU to get the board to boot just so I can flash the new bios.
> 
> Well, I call OutletPC an ask about shipping the motherboard back to them to update the bios, an pay shipping both ways. 59.00 not counting the shipping costs! *** Anyone got old fm2 socket cpu that would be willing to let me borrow for a few days to update the bios with. I would provide the shipping both ways, an some beer money for your trouble LOL


You likely got one with an early BIOS that doesn't support Kaveri. Where are you located at?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Anyone got old fm2 socket cpu that would be willing to let me borrow for a few days to update the bios with. I would provide the shipping both ways, an some beer money for your trouble LOL


If you don't have anyone else who can help with this, PM me. I've got an FM2 chip I'm not using.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Windows 10 seems to have improved my scores across the board for every single bench I have tried on both of my systems. Definitely feels like an improvement over 7/8.1, and I've only had one compatibility issue which was with my Xonar DGX drivers (or lack thereof, Asus has only had beta drivers for 8/8.1 since the card released years ago).


I ran the FFXIV benchmark again on Win 10 at identical settings and got almost exactly the same score I did under Win 7. If there's a benefit, it must not trickle down to the older AMD GPU's, at least on this particular benchmark.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Did you, or anyone else by any chance, had bios freezing issues, when trying to undervolt CPU ? After almost 3 hours of successful prime95 torture test (4300Mhz @ 1.47 showing in CPUz), I restarted my PC to tweak some settings, only to find out that the PC froze while restarting! It even froze again in bios, using the same voltages that kept it running all that time in prime95! The CLL was set to Auto, as I forgot to change it back after my first bios restart.
> After clearing cmos again, and having everything back in place, except my 4300Mhz attempts, the freezing stopped. I just don't understand why it needs that much voltage only to keep it from freezing, even in bios...
> ...
> Is that the voltage shown in bios, or in programs ?


I did not have problems in BIOS, but then again I have a A10-7870K that has a different set of issues with voltages than the original Kaveri chips.

The voltages The Stilt talks about are actual voltages, measured on the motherboard, not read from built-in sensors.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Guess I do things a little differently. I have always found my stable OC and voltage first, then adjusted LLC accordingly while lowering CPU voltage to reach the target stable voltage under load. I recall my 760K having 0 Vdroop and no LLC was needed at all, yet my 860K droops a ton under load, but LLC even on medium overshoots which isn't a good thing.


Here is the explanation behind using tighter LLC settings for Kaveri CPUs: http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/70#post_23965006.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> Here is the explanation behind using tighter LLC settings for Kaveri CPUs: http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives/70#post_23965006.


Thanx for that link, I saw it few months ago and forgot all about it.


----------



## Rebellion88

So far so good at stock it plays everything I have thrown at it do far.


----------



## juanitox

Alright guys, soon I will order my 860K, just getting some stuff ready. Would my RAM cause any trouble to the overclock? I got some Super Talent value RAM 1333MHz CL9


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright guys, soon I will order my 860K, just getting some stuff ready. Would my RAM cause any trouble to the overclock? I got some Super Talent value RAM 1333MHz CL9


No thats fine, but these chips do like high speed RAM, it helps quite a bit with performance..


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> No thats fine, but these chips do like high speed RAM, it helps quite a bit with performance..


Thanks. Hmm I have been looking for some RAM modules, maybe I would be able to afford 1866. Now I gotta decide whether 8GB or 16GB, so hard to stay on budget this way lol


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright guys, soon I will order my 860K, just getting some stuff ready. Would my RAM cause any trouble to the overclock? I got some Super Talent value RAM 1333MHz CL9


I would definitely try and pick up a 2133-2400 MHz kit because as mentioned Kaveri does benefit from it. DDR3 has been dirt cheap lately.

As far as affordability check PCpartpicker. A lot of times the 2133 kits are the same price as 1600 kits. With DDR4 on the market you should be able to find a nice combo deal.

Edit: 8GB dual sticks in dual channel is all you need. 16GB is unnecessary unless you were gaming on a 7850K and integrated graphics.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I would definitely try and pick up a 2133-2400 MHz kit because as mentioned Kaveri does benefit from it. DDR3 has been dirt cheap lately.
> 
> As far as affordability check PCpartpicker. A lot of times the 2133 kits are the same price as 1600 kits. With DDR4 on the market you should be able to find a nice combo deal.
> 
> Edit: 8GB dual sticks in dual channel is all you need. 16GB is unnecessary unless you were gaming on a 7850K and integrated graphics.


Alright thanks! I was thinking of 16GB because well you don't know when you will need more, at the moment I don't top my 8GB. But prolly when I need more I would have already changed CPU and mobo xD I see a lot of sticks @ 2133 but CL 11 rated at 1.5V, the ones with lower CL are rated at 1.65V What would be better in my case for the 860k?


----------



## Robenger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright thanks! I was thinking of 16GB because well you don't know when you will need more, at the moment I don't top my 8GB. But prolly when I need more I would have already changed CPU and mobo xD I see a lot of sticks @ 2133 but CL 11 rated at 1.5V, the ones with lower CL are rated at 1.65V What would be better in my case for the 860k?


If both are at 2133 then the lower CL is going to be better as the timings will be tighter aka faster.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robenger*
> 
> If both are at 2133 then the lower CL is going to be better as the timings will be tighter aka faster.


Thanks! And isn't there any problem about the voltages?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks! And isn't there any problem about the voltages?


Before I got my Crossblade Ranger, I had probably the cheapest A88X motherboard there is (GA-F2A88XM-DS2), which had no issues running 1.65v. You will be fine with tighter timig 2133Mhz 1.65v. If you want the best, go for a 2400Mhz. I got my TridentX very cheap, new, 7 months ago. I imagine it's even more affordable now.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Before I got my Crossblade Ranger, I had probably the cheapest A88X motherboard there is (GA-F2A88XM-DS2), which had no issues running 1.65v. You will be fine with tighter timig 2133Mhz 1.65v. If you want the best, go for a 2400Mhz. I got my TridentX very cheap, new, 7 months ago. I imagine it's even more affordable now.


I see, that could work as well thanks! I just wonder how to run it if the board is rated to support up to 2133 only :/


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I see, that could work as well thanks! I just wonder how to run it if the board is rated to support up to 2133 only :/


Thats 2133Mhz non-OC. As far as I know, all A88X (including your asus plus) mobos require OC to 2400Mhz, which is showed on motherboard site.

So don't worry, it can go to 2400Mhz, see for yourself here.

OCing to 2400Mhz is a piece of cake. Just run the XMP (or AMP) profile and it will automatically change to advertised timings, frequency and voltage.

That should be enough, but sometimes it's required to give a little voltage bump to CPUNB.

If you have any problems, just ask.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Thats 2133Mhz non-OC. As far as I know, all A88X (including your asus plus) mobos require OC to 2400Mhz, which is showed on motherboard site.
> 
> So don't worry, it can go to 2400Mhz, see for yourself here.
> 
> OCing to 2400Mhz is a piece of cake. Just run the XMP (or AMP) profile and it will automatically change to advertised timings, frequency and voltage.
> 
> That should be enough, but sometimes it's required to give a little voltage bump to CPUNB.
> 
> If you have any problems, just ask.


Thank you very much







So am I safe buying this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231621&cm_re=g.skill_2400-_-20-231-621-_-Product


----------



## Robenger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I safe buying this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231621&cm_re=g.skill_2400-_-20-231-621-_-Product


Yes, you can run it on it's XMP setting.


----------



## tone1492

That TridentX kit is a full 12 dollars cheaper than the price I got for it in late May. As I said the time to jump on a DDR3 kit couldn't be better and definitely worth it.

I can also run that same kit @2133 MHz 1.55v if stability becomes an issue for you at running it at 2400 MHz with higher CPU overclocks. It's nice to have so much leverage with RAM


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I safe buying this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231621&cm_re=g.skill_2400-_-20-231-621-_-Product


Wow, thats some cheap RAM! I would buy that If I were you


----------



## juanitox

Alright guys, thanks for your advice! If there won't be any stability issues I will get the 2400 memory, I already ordered the 860K. I will use my previous parts in a build for my mom


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Wow, thats some cheap RAM! I would buy that If I were you


I don't even have my parts yet and I'm about to ask about what to do xD Did you need to raise the NB voltage to run your RAM at 2400? I'm reading and trying to figure out things because this will be my first time playing with these settings. I want my system to be stable.


----------



## Robenger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I don't even have my parts yet and I'm about to ask about what to do xD Did you need to raise the NB voltage to run your RAM at 2400? I'm reading and trying to figure out things because this will be my first time playing with these settings. I want my system to be stable.


You don't need to do anything. To make it simple on yourself just run the ram on its XMP setting. It will set the speed, timings and voltage for you.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I safe buying this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231621&cm_re=g.skill_2400-_-20-231-621-_-Product


I would've sold you my G.Skill Ripjaws Z 8GB 2400MHz kit for even cheaper.







Nice ram though. Good luck on your build!


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I don't even have my parts yet and I'm about to ask about what to do xD Did you need to raise the NB voltage to run your RAM at 2400? I'm reading and trying to figure out things because this will be my first time playing with these settings. I want my system to be stable.


I just ran the XMP profile and everything went without a problem, on both my boards









I have the exact same RAM, but mine just looks slightly different. I had to remove the top part of both my sticks (the passive cooler fin accessory - easy optional removal) to stick them beneath my tower cooler. Looking at the one you showed, I guess it's fins can also be removed. I'm only mentioning this cause some rams don't have that option, and I've seen people cut the top part to be able to squeeze them beneath CPU cooler.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> I would've sold you my G.Skill Ripjaws Z 8GB 2400MHz kit for even cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice ram though. Good luck on your build!


Thanks!! And thanks anyway








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I just ran the XMP profile and everything went without a problem, on both my boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the exact same RAM, but mine just looks slightly different. I had to remove the top part of both my sticks (the passive cooler fin accessory - easy optional removal) to stick them beneath my tower cooler. Looking at the one you showed, I guess it's fins can also be removed. I'm only mentioning this cause some rams don't have that option, and I've seen people cut the top part to be able to squeeze them beneath CPU cooler.


I ended up grabbing the same kit as yours since I figured the one I linked was Trident and your one is Trident X, didn't find the difference tho. But I wonder if I will need 16GB in the near future.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks!! And thanks anyway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up grabbing the same kit as yours since I figured the one I linked was Trident and your one is Trident X, didn't find the difference tho. But I wonder if I will need 16GB in the near future.


Good choice and GSkill RAM has a great reputation. Forget about the 16GB it is not needed for gaming. By the time you need 16GB for gaming you won't be able to game on this platform anyway.


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Forget about the 16GB it is not needed for gaming. By the time you need 16GB for gaming you won't be able to game on this platform anyway.


16 GB kits are usually dual rank (have double sided modules/16 chips instead of 8 per module), and Kaveri CPUs can work better with dual rank memory. The Stilt claims the difference between dual rank and single rank is around the difference of additional 166 MHz of DDR memory frequency.

Of course, this affects mostly Kaveri chips with iGPU enabled.

You might also consider this article on memory scaling: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/february/understanding-kaveri


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> My 860K manages 3.5GHz 1.1v, 4GHz 1.225v, 4.2GHz 1.350v. Don't really want to push it higher as I have a miniITX build. Went to this from a FX6300.
> 
> What strikes me though is that, even at 2ghz, voltage won't go under 1.025v without crashing the PC. Is it only my problem, maybe because of my motherboard (http://asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/index.us.asp) or this is common knowledge? Kaveri cannot be undervolted under 1v?


anyone can confirm the inability for Kaveri to go under 1v even at minimal frequencies? Is it the same for Godavari?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> anyone can confirm the inability for Kaveri to go under 1v even at minimal frequencies? Is it the same for Godavari?


I have a A10-7870K and the default lowest P-State is 1.7GHz @ 0.925V. Second lowest default P-State is 2.4GHz @ 1.05V. I think I tried 3.0GHz @ 1.05V and it was working.


----------



## juanitox

Thank you guys for your help! My 860K and the new RAM shipped today. So prolly soon I will be asking a lot again lol


----------



## tone1492

Just switched to Windows 10 and the only issue I am having when I drag things on and around my second monitor they look blurry and broken. Almost like playing a game at 10 FPS. It's killing my eyes! If someone knows a fix let me know.


----------



## Himo5

Sounds like you may need to update to Catalyst for W10.

By the by - once you have W10 sorted out it would be worthwhile generating a system image and finding out how to reinstal it if you ever want to change your motherboard.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Sounds like you may need to update to Catalyst for W10.
> 
> By the by - once you have W10 sorted out it would be worthwhile generating a system image and finding out how to reinstal it if you ever want to change your motherboard.


I have an Nvida card and I'm on the latest Win 10 driver for it.

Edit: Actually Nvidia has a new driver as of today. Wow I just got the latest one last week!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Sounds like you may need to update to Catalyst for W10.
> 
> By the by - once you have W10 sorted out it would be worthwhile generating a system image and finding out how to reinstal it if you ever want to change your motherboard.


Problem solved with the new Win 10 driver by Nvidia. Thanks man


----------



## Scorpion49

I might switch back to 8.1 when I have time, I just realized yesterday when I tried to plug in my printer that Windows 10 isn't recognizing non-USB 3.0 devices in the back I/O ports on my UD4 except the two native 2.0 ones I'm using for my mouse and keyboard. The front ASMedia 3.0 ports work for all devices but the rear AMD chipset ones only recognize 3.0 devices. I updated the driver twice to make sure it was good.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have an Nvida card and I'm on the latest Win 10 driver for it.
> 
> Edit: Actually Nvidia has a new driver as of today. Wow I just got the latest one last week!
> Problem solved with the new Win 10 driver by Nvidia. Thanks man


Sorry for not reading back through the posts to find what card you had - glad I came near a solution anyway.

But anyone free'grading to W10 should beware of how it may affect your hardware upgrading path, as it says at Microsoft Answers,
Quote:


> Keep in mind that if the hardware configuration of your Windows 10 device changes significantly (e.g. motherboard change) Windows 10 may require re-activation on the device. This is the same experience as prior versions of Windows (e.g. Windows 7 and Windows 8.1) and you'll need to contact Support.


It might be worth making sure you are setting up to conform with a scheme like:
How to Create Hardware Independent System Image for Installing Windows 10


----------



## Scorpion49

So I made some improvements to my rig today, yay! I sold my Z97 stuff so I picked up a Corsair RM850i that way I could use my Fury in the 860K machine, the Antec 630W I've been using doesn't have enough PCIe 8-pin connectors for that GPU. I also grabbed a BeQuiet Dark Rock TF cooler. AMD chips really like the top-down style coolers since it cools the socket and VRM's as well, I was actually managing the same overclock at lower temps with my ancient CM something or other 90mm cooler that I bought when C2D was new as I did with the Hyper 212+ Evo.

Anyways, heres some pics since we all like those.

Boxes are here!









Old cooler in all of its tiny glory:









Cute little 860K









Comparison of the two, same style but the Dark Rock has the same surface area on its secondary heatsink as the CM has all together









Just barely cleared the RAM, the cooler will have to come out if I want to remove that stick









And all assembled with the new PSU in and the R9 Fury.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Just barely cleared the RAM, the cooler will have to come out if I want to remove that stick


Scorpion, is that Mushkin ram?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> Scorpion, is that Mushkin ram?


Yes it is, this kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226565

I would have just moved them over but my last memory slot is bad so I have to use the ones I'm in.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yes it is, this kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226565
> 
> I would have just moved them over but my last memory slot is bad so I have to use the ones I'm in.


Was just looking at their 16GB kits. I assume they're double-sided. Your 8 is probably single-sided though.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> Was just looking at their 16GB kits. I assume they're double-sided. Your 8 is probably single-sided though.


Yeah, I think the 16GB kit is dual-rank. The APU's seem to like the dual-rank stuff better than single rank, don't know if it makes a difference on the Athlons though.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, I think the 16GB kit is dual-rank. The APU's seem to like the dual-rank stuff better than single rank, don't know if it makes a difference on the Athlons though.


Stilt would know.







I want them to release the 870k already.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> Stilt would know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want them to release the 870k already.


Yeah I'd like to pick up an 870K myself when it drops. The 860K is a great budget chip though, although my build with it is anything but budget at this point. My next day off I'm going to be pushing for 4.8-5.0ghz since my chip will do 4.6 at less than 1.400V.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Just barely cleared the RAM, the cooler will have to come out if I want to remove that stick


you can still move the DIMMs to the 2nd and 4th slot, in the AMD's guide for FX processors was actually recommended to put the ram in the farther position from the CPU.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah I'd like to pick up an 870K myself when it drops. The 860K is a great budget chip though, although my build with it is anything but budget at this point. My next day off I'm going to be pushing for 4.8-5.0ghz since my chip will do 4.6 at less than 1.400V.


I hear ya. I just picked up a XFX 7970. Thankfully, it runs cooler than most of the XFX 7970's i've read about (and 82% asic quality) so no need for the igpu anymore. Rocking BF4 on ultra 1080p and it's awesome.

Wow! Looks like you found a golden chip. Lucky!


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I made some improvements to my rig today, yay! I sold my Z97 stuff so I picked up a Corsair RM850i that way I could use my Fury in the 860K machine, the Antec 630W I've been using doesn't have enough PCIe 8-pin connectors for that GPU. I also grabbed a BeQuiet Dark Rock TF cooler. AMD chips really like the top-down style coolers since it cools the socket and VRM's as well, I was actually managing the same overclock at lower temps with my ancient CM something or other 90mm cooler that I bought when C2D was new as I did with the Hyper 212+ Evo.
> 
> Anyways, heres some pics since we all like those.
> 
> Boxes are here!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old cooler in all of its tiny glory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cute little 860K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparison of the two, same style but the Dark Rock has the same surface area on its secondary heatsink as the CM has all together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just barely cleared the RAM, the cooler will have to come out if I want to remove that stick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all assembled with the new PSU in and the R9 Fury.


WE GOTS DA SAME CASE BRO!!! lol

Nice rig man, looks clean


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> you can still move the DIMMs to the 2nd and 4th slot, in the AMD's guide for FX processors was actually recommended to put the ram in the farther position from the CPU.


Yeah I got a bad ram slot so I can't.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah I'd like to pick up an 870K myself when it drops. The 860K is a great budget chip though, although my build with it is anything but budget at this point. My next day off I'm going to be pushing for 4.8-5.0ghz since my chip will do 4.6 at less than 1.400V.


That's really good man. Mine takes stupid amount of voltage and cold just to push 4.5GHz.


----------



## juanitox

Nice stuff Scorpion, looking great









I got a question guys, I was checking the version of my BIOS, my ASUS A88X-PLUS got the version 1202 (2014/01/29). Do you know what version would be stable and nice for the 860K I got on the way? So I can upgrade while I wait.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Himo5

Looks like you need the latest, 2402, if you want to take advantage of USB 3.1.

Code:



Code:


Description  A88X-PLUS BIOS 2402
                Support ASUS USB 3.1 PCIE add-on card
File Size       3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/05/14
Download from   Global

Version 2302
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 2302
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/04/16
Download from   Global

Version 2202
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 2202
                Improve stability with CPU Athlon X4 860K.
File Size       3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/02/05
Download from   Global

Version 2101
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 2101
                Enhance memory compatibility.
File Size       3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/01/16
Download from   Global

Version 2003
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 2003
                Improve stability with CPU Athlon X4 860K.
File Size       3.71 MBytesupdate 2014/12/15
Download from   Global

Version 1801
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1801
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.7 MBytesupdate 2014/10/17
Download from   Global

Version 1701
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1701
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.7 MBytesupdate 2014/07/03
Download from   Global

Version 1601
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1601
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.7 MBytesupdate 2014/06/18
Download from   Global

Version 1502
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1502
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.69 MBytesupdate 2014/05/22
Download from   Global

Version 1402
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1402
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.69 MBytesupdate 2014/04/15
Download from   Global

Version 1202
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1202
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.67 MBytesupdate 2014/01/29
Download from   Global

Version 1102
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1102
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.68 MBytesupdate 2014/01/03
Download from   Global

Version 1002
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 1002
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.68 MBytesupdate 2013/12/13
Download from   Global

Version 0801
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 0801
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.67 MBytesupdate 2013/11/28
Download from   Global

Version 0701
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 0701
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.67 MBytesupdate 2013/11/05
Download from   Global

Version 0602
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 0602
                Support new CPUs. Please refer to our website at: 
                http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us
File Size       3.67 MBytesupdate 2013/10/25
Download from   Global

Version 0501
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 0501
                Improve system stability.
File Size       3.6 MBytesupdate 2013/09/26
Download from   Global

Version 0410
Description     A88X-PLUS BIOS 0410
                First release Bios
File Size       3.59 MBytesupdate 2013/09/16
Download from   Global


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Looks like you need the latest, 2402, if you want to take advantage of USB 3.1.
> 
> Description A88X-PLUS BIOS 2402 Support ASUS USB 3.1 PCIE add-on card File Size 3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/05/14 Download from Global


 That, and a proprietary add-in card that costs about $40-50.


Code:


Description A88X-PLUS BIOS 2402
Support ASUS USB 3.1 PCIE add-on card
File Size 3.71 MBytesupdate 2015/05/14
Download from Global[/QUOTE]
That, and a proprietary add-in card that costs about $40-50.


----------



## juanitox

Thanks for the info, so am I safe to go with the latest one?


----------



## Dromihetes

So after so much time what motherboard has prooven to be the best overclocking tool for this CPU ?!


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> So after so much time what motherboard has prooven to be the best overclocking tool for this CPU ?!


Top of the dog pile will be the Asus XBR, A88X-Pro or the Gigabyte A88X-UP4. There are other boards that are decent but many of them have garbage VRM sections even though they claim 8+2 or whatever. There is another Asus "gamer" board that pops up now and again but I'm unsure if it is a 4+2 or 6+2 phase design.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks for the info, so am I safe to go with the latest one?


It's tricky. At some point around March-April Asus started updating their FM2+ BIOSs to cater for the first - and so far only - Godavari processor to be made available, the A10-7870K.

The trouble presumably was that with the rest of the range due for release in August-September they got ahead of themselves and fouled up the interface with Kaveri.

So now Kaveri owners have to guess where the foul-up started. In your case, with BIOS updates in February, April and May (2202, 2302 and 2402), the safest update is probably 2202.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> It's tricky. At some point around March-April Asus started updating their FM2+ BIOSs to cater for the first - and so far only - Godavari processor to be made available, the A10-7870K.
> 
> The trouble presumably was that with the rest of the range due for release in August-September they got ahead of themselves and fouled up the interface with Kaveri.
> 
> So now Kaveri owners have to guess where the foul-up started. In your case, with BIOS updates in February, April and May (2202, 2302 and 2402), the safest update is probably 2202.


Thank you


----------



## Scorpion49

I'm really disliking this Gigabyte board, their LLC settings are ******ed and there is no way to turn off spread spectrum that I can find so the BCLK is bouncing all over the place.

EDIT: I guess overclocking on this board is completely out of the question, I can't even get close to the same clocks I got on the Asus. It also throttles the CPU to 3.4ghz even with APM and everything else off and plenty of thermal headroom. Typical Gigabyte, nice hardware without a decent BIOS to back it up.


----------



## 7850K

I've had my share of quirks with this board but never had those throttling issues except when gaming on the iGPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah I'd like to pick up an 870K myself when it drops. The 860K is a great budget chip though, although my build with it is anything but budget at this point. My next day off I'm going to be pushing for 4.8-5.0ghz since my chip will do 4.6 at less than 1.400V.


from what I remember reading, there isn't any performance gain to be had above about 4.6Ghz anyway.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I've had my share of quirks with this board but never had those throttling issues except when gaming on the iGPU.
> from what I remember reading, there isn't any performance gain to be had above about 4.6Ghz anyway.


Well if there is, I won't be finding it on this board lol

The LLC settings are so god awful, auto droops .060-.075V and anything other than auto ramps my voltage up to 1.500V+ under load. I had many similar problems with the last Gigabyte board I used, an X79 setup. They just don't seem to be very polished when it comes to the BIOS area (or fan control).

4600mhz/2000NB/2133RAM at 1.450V seems ok, but it droops to 1.392V under load.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Can someone give me some pointers? Mine is sitting at 1.43 v @4.2 ghz. If I push the voltage any higher it overheats and shuts off. I'm hitting the mid 65c or so on a cooler 212 evo. Is that a normal temp for this chip?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Can someone give me some pointers? Mine is sitting at 1.43 v @4.2 ghz. If I push the voltage any higher it overheats and shuts off. I'm hitting the mid 65c or so on a cooler 212 evo. Is that a normal temp for this chip?


have you messed with the DIGI VRM settings?


----------



## newguyeverytime

I have not, I'm using an ASUS A88X-M.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> I have not, I'm using an ASUS A88X-M.


Hmm, looks like you have 3+2 phase with no VRM heatsink. Even if you mess with the DIGI VRM settings, you still can't get around the heat produced in that area. 4.2 at 1.43 also seems too high for that chip. At this level, on my A88X-Pro, I'm at 4.3 trying to reach 4.4.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well here is the most I can get out of my chip on this garbage Gigabyte board:


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Hmm, looks like you have 3+2 phase with no VRM heatsink. Even if you mess with the DIGI VRM settings, you still can't get around the heat produced in that area. 4.2 at 1.43 also seems too high for that chip. At this level, on my A88X-Pro, I'm at 4.3 trying to reach 4.4.


This has 4+2 with heatsinks. I set VRM to "extreme" and I turned C6 state back on so it won't be so hot 24/7. I'm sitting at 1.46 for 4.3. I had an ASROCK mobo for my bulldozer and I like the set-up way better than the ASUS voltage control. I'm about ready to give up at 4.3, it's hitting 62c right now.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Sounds like you may need to update to Catalyst for W10.
> 
> By the by - once you have W10 sorted out it would be worthwhile generating a system image and finding out how to reinstal it if you ever want to change your motherboard.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well here is the most I can get out of my chip on this garbage Gigabyte board:


That's a great score. Are you still getting the throttling? If so that's strange because once I disabled APM, C6 and Cool and Quiet It fixed things for me.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> That's a great score. Are you still getting the throttling? If so that's strange because once I disabled APM, C6 and Cool and Quiet It fixed things for me.


Yep, all 4 cores throttle to 3.4ghz every 3-5 seconds under P95.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well here is the most I can get out of my chip on this garbage Gigabyte board:


Yeah that blew my score away. Seems to have scaled very well with the extra few hundred MHz. I find that benchmark interesting because it scales with every main component (CPU/IMC/RAM/GPU).


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Yeah that blew my score away. Seems to have scaled very well with the extra few hundred MHz. I find that benchmark interesting because it scales with every main component (CPU/IMC/RAM/GPU).


Benchmark runs really well on Fiji, I think its the tessellation. With my 4690k I got about 3k points higher with a single Fiji than with 290X crossfire. Do you actually play that game? I was wondering how it was after watching the bench run so many times lol.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> ...from what I remember reading, there isn't any performance gain to be had above about 4.6Ghz anyway.


I was able to get my 860 up to 4.5 but the voltage increase from 4.4 to 4.5 just wasn't worth the minimal performance gain in my opinion. I'm currently at 4.4 and 1.472V with great temperatures using a Crossblade Ranger.
I'm still learning and making plenty of mistakes, so I'm positive somebody else could get mine a lot higher.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Benchmark runs really well on Fiji, I think its the tessellation. With my 4690k I got about 3k points higher with a single Fiji than with 290X crossfire. Do you actually play that game? I was wondering how it was after watching the bench run so many times lol.


How is the score on the 860K compared to the 4690K, when both are using Fury (to the best of your recollection)?

Btw, I used to play that game. I bought it on launch and did some high-end raiding until I quit. I was longing for WoW's LFR system and I didn't feel like going thru guild politics and grouping up the hard way again (I'm old lol, 32 but still). The game is actually very good. One of the best MMO's in my opinion.


----------



## aDyerSituation

Hey everyone. Just curious what this cpu compares to in gaming performance when clocked at 4.3-4.5.

Is it in spitting distance of an i5?


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aDyerSituation*
> 
> Hey everyone. Just curious what this cpu compares to in gaming performance when clocked at 4.3-4.5.
> 
> Is it in spitting distance of an i5?


Maybe an ivy bridge, but remember the cores do share resources. It's more aligned with an i3.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aDyerSituation*
> 
> Hey everyone. Just curious what this cpu compares to in gaming performance when clocked at 4.3-4.5.
> 
> Is it in spitting distance of an i5?


I'll need to do a passmark at 4.3 but at 4.2, it's equivalent to the i5-3340 with single thread performance equivalent to the i5-2400


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Top of the dog pile will be the Asus XBR, A88X-Pro or the Gigabyte A88X-UP4. There are other boards that are decent but many of them have garbage VRM sections even though they claim 8+2 or whatever. There is another Asus "gamer" board that pops up now and again but I'm unsure if it is a 4+2 or 6+2 phase design.


Its a 4+2, made a system with that board and a 7850k, great board for the price, just as good as the asrock killer i would say


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I'll need to do a passmark at 4.3 but at 4.2, it's equivalent to the i5-3340 with single thread performance equivalent to the i5-2400


I don't have a 4.3 result handy (i wonder why?) but my 4.4 had a cpu mark of 6819 and a single thread was 1906.
For comparison 4.5 was 6920/1947 so it had hit the point of diminishing returns for me when I factored in how much more voltage I needed for it to be stable (1.512V)


----------



## Jack13

I just ran these off of some notes I had made. All tests are CPU only and 2 passes each.
I have never been able to run at 4.6 for more than about 5 minutes.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> How is the score on the 860K compared to the 4690K, when both are using Fury (to the best of your recollection)?
> 
> Btw, I used to play that game. I bought it on launch and did some high-end raiding until I quit. I was longing for WoW's LFR system and I didn't feel like going thru guild politics and grouping up the hard way again (I'm old lol, 32 but still). The game is actually very good. One of the best MMO's in my opinion.


This is the Fury on that machine but not unlocked, I've unlocked 3 more CU's now so the performance would be about 500-1000 points higher. The 4690k was at 4.4ghz.


----------



## coffeerox

@Scorpion49: I'm surprised the gap isn't as big as I thought (even though 1000pts on the bench is nothing to scoff at). I was almost certain that anything higher than a 970 would bottleneck the 860K. Gives me hope for the future







I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about the Fury, it seems people are really happy with it (especially Sapphire's). Personally I think it's the best value at that range.

@Jack13: great work man! Seems like the 860K at 4.3~4.4 is about equivalent to the i5-4460. Seeing as one is 75 bucks and the other is 190, the 860K offers immense value. Granted you do have to OC it, get aftermarket coolers, etc. Still ends up being cheaper than Intel.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> @Scorpion49: I'm surprised the gap isn't as big as I thought (even though 1000pts on the bench is nothing to scoff at). I was almost certain that anything higher than a 970 would bottleneck the 860K. Gives me hope for the future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about the Fury, it seems people are really happy with it (especially Sapphire's). Personally I think it's the best value at that range.
> 
> @Jack13: great work man! Seems like the 860K at 4.3~4.4 is about equivalent to the i5-4460. Seeing as one is 75 bucks and the other is 190, the 860K offers immense value. Granted you do have to OC it, get aftermarket coolers, etc. Still ends up being cheaper than Intel.


That bench is pretty good at using everything on the system, I still have issues with games like World of Tanks where my frame rate barely breaks into the 50's when the 4690k was giving me 100-130fps easily. Single core IPC is still very low compared to Intel.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Single core IPC is still very low compared to Intel.


Exactly. My Skyrim FPS really suffers in towns depending where I am, but in caves and in the wilderness I'm good. I have no doubt a CPU with better single core performance would give me less drops, seeing that Skyrim is co CPU intensive. Definitely happy with my system, but I do find myself wanting more.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> @Scorpion49: I'm surprised the gap isn't as big as I thought (even though 1000pts on the bench is nothing to scoff at). I was almost certain that anything higher than a 970 would bottleneck the 860K. Gives me hope for the future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about the Fury, it seems people are really happy with it (especially Sapphire's). Personally I think it's the best value at that range.
> 
> @Jack13: great work man! Seems like the 860K at 4.3~4.4 is about equivalent to the i5-4460. Seeing as one is 75 bucks and the other is 190, the 860K offers immense value. Granted you do have to OC it, get aftermarket coolers, etc. Still ends up being cheaper than Intel.


Thanks. The way I look at it is if I had an i5 or i7 I'd be using the same aftermarket cooler, ram, gpu, psu, ssd, hdd's, case and peripherals that I am now, so all that is a wash. So, with the money I save on the cpu and motherboard, I can buy more storage, or ram or whatever. I don't have the burning need to have a system that will finish an operation 3 to 5 milliseconds faster. I'm perfectly cool with those that do feel that need. Different strokes. I really only benchmark to see if what I did is better or worse than what I started with. I sometimes compare with others just to see if I'm heading in the right direction. I compete only with myself.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Exactly. My Skyrim FPS really suffers in towns depending where I am, but in caves and in the wilderness I'm good. I have no doubt a CPU with better single core performance would give me less drops, seeing that Skyrim is co CPU intensive. Definitely happy with my system, but I do find myself wanting more.


Thats why I enjoy my Freesync monitor so much (and Gsync when I had it as well). Unless the frame rate drops into the 30's which doesn't really happen I have no way of knowing unless I monitor the frame rate obsessively.


----------



## Scorpion49

Does anyone have a PCIe SSD on an A88X chipset that works as a boot drive? I'm trying to figure out if its even possible, I had my SM951 sitting around so I got a PCIe adapter for it, but the UP4 can't see it. I can install Windows to it through a UEFI USB stick but it I can't do anything else with it.


----------



## drmrlordx

The A88x-Pro supports booting from NVMe drives:

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Intel-SSD-750-Series-PCIe-Compatibility-Tested

Theoretically, the Crossblade Ranger should also, but I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. Mind you, that only covers the Intel 750 Series. It may not apply to other NVMe drives.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> @Jack13: great work man! Seems like the 860K at 4.3~4.4 is about equivalent to the i5-4460. Seeing as one is 75 bucks and the other is 190, the 860K offers immense value. Granted you do have to OC it, get aftermarket coolers, etc. Still ends up being cheaper than Intel.


If you go back through the older posts on this thread, that was determined months ago. The 860K at 4.5 GHz performs in the range of the i5-2400 all the way up to the 4460, depending on what application is being run. Unless someone needs more than four threads, it's easily AMD's best bang for the buck CPU at the moment. At least until the 870 shows up.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you go back through the older posts on this thread, that was determined months ago. The 860K at 4.5 GHz performs in the range of the i5-2400 all the way up to the 4460, depending on what application is being run. Unless someone needs more than four threads, it's easily AMD's best bang for the buck CPU at the moment. At least until the 870 shows up.


I wish I would've been there. I came to my own conclusion a few months ago that the 860K is the best budget CPU b/c of the fact that games won't run on DC's anymore and therefore the much hyped G3258 would be useless w/ the new games. I also preferred it over the i3's because of the 4 physical cores. (Btw, Passmark was a huge help in seeing where a CPU placed). There was no way I was gonna buy a dual core lol! I just came from one!

I'd always had my eye on the 6300 and found the 860K during my 'banishment' from Gfaqs (around Witcher 3 launch). THEN, Digital Foundry did a comparison and 6300 blew away the i3 as I expected lol! I went w/ the 860K though b/c the other builds were overbudget. I was able to find an open box A88X-Pro for cheap and the already lower price of 860K helped me stay in budget.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I was able to find an open box A88X-Pro for cheap and the already lower price of 860K helped me stay in budget.


Good job getting the Asus Pro. From what it seems that is the motherboard you want to pair with this CPU, other than the overpriced Ranger of course.


----------



## Himo5

But for the A88X-Pro set the BIOS to Version 1703 to avoid the Godavari-Kaveri interface clash.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> The A88x-Pro supports booting from NVMe drives:
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Intel-SSD-750-Series-PCIe-Compatibility-Tested
> 
> Theoretically, the Crossblade Ranger should also, but I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. Mind you, that only covers the Intel 750 Series. It may not apply to other NVMe drives.


I think the 750 has a built in bootloader though, my SM951 doesn't. I do have an A88X-Pro on the way though, the USB 3.0 ports now failed on my UP4 so I'm going to RMA it.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Good job getting the Asus Pro. From what it seems that is the motherboard you want to pair with this CPU, other than the overpriced Ranger of course.


Thx! I'm really picky with Mobos now. Ever since the storm knocked out my ASRock that housed my Q6600, I won't even consider brands that don't have overcurrent protection (tbf that mobo/cpu was given to me). Came from a really good Asus experience on my old A4-3300 so thought I'd continue the trend. Now I'm starting to question even Gigabyte......
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> But for the A88X-Pro set the BIOS to Version 1703 to avoid the Godavari-Kaveri interface clash.


That was the first thing I did








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I do have an A88X-Pro on the way though, the USB 3.0 ports now failed on my UP4 so I'm going to RMA it.


Man. First the RAM slots now this?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Man. First the RAM slots now this?


Something is definitely wrong with the board, the RAM slot I could live with but then the USB 3.0 from the NB stopped working after being intermittent for a while (the ASMedia front 3.0 ports work fine). And then just a few minutes ago the onboard audio seems to have died. I had taken out my DGX and used the onboard for the first time and it lasted literally 10 minutes of a youtube video before it went all garbled and refused to go back to normal, after a couple of reboots windows doesn't even see the audio device any more.

I've built hundreds of PC's for myself and others and I've yet to have a good experience with a Gigabyte board since the mid 2000's. ASRock and MSI are usually my go-to if I want a warranty, Asus only if I'm willing to have a product with no support whatsoever. I've had few failed Asus boards but each time I had to RMA with them it has been a nightmare to the point where I will just throw a dead $300 Asus board in the trash rather than try to deal with them any more.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Theoretically, the Crossblade Ranger should also, but I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. Mind you, that only covers the Intel 750 Series. It may not apply to other NVMe drives.


I'll be more than happy to try it, if you want to donate *this one*.


----------



## drmrlordx

Hmmmmmmmm I'll pass on that, but keep trying! Surely someone will accept your assistance.

Bummer on your UP4 Scorpion, sorry to hear that. At least now you can get out from that bad RAM slot.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hmmmmmmmm I'll pass on that, but keep trying! Surely someone will accept your assistance.
> 
> Bummer on your UP4 Scorpion, sorry to hear that. At least now you can get out from that bad RAM slot.


it's amazing how iffy motherboards can be. My UP4 has run fine out of the gate since day one.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hmmmmmmmm I'll pass on that, but keep trying! Surely someone will accept your assistance.
> 
> Bummer on your UP4 Scorpion, sorry to hear that. At least now you can get out from that bad RAM slot.


I was kidding.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well the Pro is in, just now got home from work and went about installing 8.1 again. Its amazing how much more polished this BIOS is than what Gigabyte offers, and Asus fan control is awesome. This board seems to have shipped with 1902 BIOS installed, and interestingly it knows that my SM951 is there but it can't seem to boot to it. I wonder if a later BIOS has the ability, that would be really nice.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> I was kidding.


Yeah I know. So was I (the second part anyway. I'm fresh out of Intel 750 donor parts at the moment so I still gotta pass).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> it's amazing how iffy motherboards can be. My UP4 has run fine out of the gate since day one.


Sometimes boards are just like that. Way back in the day, I had an ECS K7S5A motherboard (SiS 735 chipset ahoy!) and I loved it, but other people had major problems with using them in builds, had to return/RMA large batches of them, etc. There were multiple versions of that board, and some of them were not so reliable. Guess I got lucky.

To the best of my knowledge, the UP4 does not have an overall rep for poor quality hardware. Just a "meh" UEFI.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well the Pro is in, just now got home from work and went about installing 8.1 again. Its amazing how much more polished this BIOS is than what Gigabyte offers, and Asus fan control is awesome. This board seems to have shipped with 1902 BIOS installed, and interestingly it knows that my SM951 is there but it can't seem to boot to it. I wonder if a later BIOS has the ability, that would be really nice.


You can try 2402 or whatever is the latest, though it may screw up the stability on your Kaveri at higher clockspeeds so watch out.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> You can try 2402 or whatever is the latest, though it may screw up the stability on your Kaveri at higher clockspeeds so watch out.


I'd trade 200mhz on the overclock for how fast and responsive the SM951 is compared to a normal SSD any day


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys, prolly today or tomorrow I will get my hands all over my 860K. I have some questions. If I want to overclock it using offset mode in the CPU voltage, should I use CPU Offset Voltage on Auto or how do I find a voltage for that. What sign should I use for the voltage? Also any tips for the LLC in the ASUS BIOS or the other settings?

And a final question, my ASUS A88X-PLUS got a 4+2 phase and a heatsink on the VRMs and I'm using the CM Hyper 212 EVO for the CPU. From your experience, how far should I try to push it safely?

Thanks in advance for all the help you can provide.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I'd trade 200mhz on the overclock for how fast and responsive the SM951 is compared to a normal SSD any day


This link to 'How To Clone An Existing Drive To A New SSD', which mentions an XP941 as a possible target, might help you.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> And a final question, my ASUS A88X-PLUS got a 4+2 phase and a heatsink on the VRMs and I'm using the CM Hyper 212 EVO for the CPU. From your experience, how far should I try to push it safely


4.2 is safe. 4.3 and 4.4 will be a challenge. For me, I can't get past 4.3 w/o going liquid as 4.3 as it is, I'm sitting at 10c thermal margin. Some people can hit 4.4 on low voltages though. You won't know until you try it out.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> 4.2 is safe. 4.3 and 4.4 will be a challenge. For me, I can't get past 4.3 w/o going liquid as 4.3 as it is, I'm sitting at 10c thermal margin. Some people can hit 4.4 on low voltages though. You won't know until you try it out.


Hmm I see, what would be considered a low voltage for an 860k on air?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> This link to 'How To Clone An Existing Drive To A New SSD', which mentions an XP941 as a possible target, might help you.


Yeah, unfortunately they are using Z97/X99 boards that have PCIe lanes or an m.2 slot connected to the Intel PCH which has no problem seeing the drive, it would not have worked for them if they went to the CPU direct lanes. Same problem I have now, I don't think the Bolton chipset has any provision for booting something with no bootloader even when it is connected to the x4 2.0 lanes from the chipset.


----------



## Himo5

Don't you have a carrier board so that you can install it in the PCIE 3.0/2.0 x16 Slot 5?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Don't you have a carrier board so that you can install it in the PCIE 3.0/2.0 x16 Slot 5?


Yes but that isn't the problem, the SSD itself has no bootloader. The only way to boot it is through the chipset if the BIOS includes the correct option rom. This is why compatibility is such a problem with the NGFF stuff.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hmm I see, what would be considered a low voltage for an 860k on air?


I had an Asus A88X-Plus before I found a smoking deal on a Crossblade Ranger. I could never get past 4.3 on the old board even with fairly high voltage.
I'm currently sitting at 4.4 with 1.472V with the new board using a Noctua NH-U14S and never going higher than around 56C under a stress load.
To be fair to the Plus board, I suspect that I may have had a dud 860K in it. When I got my new board, I stuck the old CPU in it with pretty much the same results. When I put the new CPU in it I was able to get a rock solid 4.5 but it was at 1.512V so I backed it down a bit. I've never used the A88X-Pro, but I've read where it is a little more friendly for overclocking.
My plus board is sitting off to the side awaiting further study, but time to play with such things has a way of being in short supply. That and I'm lacking a spare PSU...

I freely admit that I am in no way an expert at overclocking, so your mileage may vary. There are some very helpful posts for the 860K earlier in this thread if you can find the time to dig through it.
I hope some of this may have helped. Most of the people in this thread have been helpful instead of suggesting that the best solution is to spend more money on an intel system. Not all of us live rent free with our parents.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys, prolly today or tomorrow I will get my hands all over my 860K. I have some questions. If I want to overclock it using offset mode in the CPU voltage, should I use CPU Offset Voltage on Auto or how do I find a voltage for that. What sign should I use for the voltage? Also any tips for the LLC in the ASUS BIOS or the other settings?
> 
> And a final question, my ASUS A88X-PLUS got a 4+2 phase and a heatsink on the VRMs and I'm using the CM Hyper 212 EVO for the CPU. From your experience, how far should I try to push it safely?
> 
> Thanks in advance for all the help you can provide.


CPU offset is set to Auto by default. It's a good idea to bump the value once (+ prefferably), because some motherboards, if offset is left to Auto, like to increase voltage to 1.512 (mine and some other peeps here encountered this). You will see your real voltage around 1.43 once you do that. Increase offset voltage further as needed when you raise CPU multiplier, and stress test using prime95 blend test, or some other tool.

As for LLC, as far as I know from reading this thread, the recommended settings for ASUS boards are High, both for CPU and NB.

I have a cooler thats similar to yours, and I can get my CPU to 4300Mhz and NB to 2000Mhz, with 15-20C on thermal margin. I bet I can do even better, as I experimented on hottest of days in years, and I used some old Scythe thermal paste that came with the cooler. Gonna try soon using some MX-4.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yes but that isn't the problem, the SSD itself has no bootloader. The only way to boot it is through the chipset if the BIOS includes the correct option rom. This is why compatibility is such a problem with the NGFF stuff.


That's what I thought this was all about - usual guessing game fog in an Asus manual.

Asus UEFI BIOS Utility>Advanced Mode>Boot Menu>CSM(Compatability Support Module)>
Boot from PCIe/PCI Expansion Devices[Legacy OpROM firs|UEFI Driver firstt]


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I had an Asus A88X-Plus before I found a smoking deal on a Crossblade Ranger. I could never get past 4.3 on the old board even with fairly high voltage.
> I'm currently sitting at 4.4 with 1.472V with the new board using a Noctua NH-U14S and never going higher than around 56C under a stress load.
> To be fair to the Plus board, I suspect that I may have had a dud 860K in it. When I got my new board, I stuck the old CPU in it with pretty much the same results. When I put the new CPU in it I was able to get a rock solid 4.5 but it was at 1.512V so I backed it down a bit. I've never used the A88X-Pro, but I've read where it is a little more friendly for overclocking.
> My plus board is sitting off to the side awaiting further study, but time to play with such things has a way of being in short supply. That and I'm lacking a spare PSU...
> 
> I freely admit that I am in no way an expert at overclocking, so your mileage may vary. There are some very helpful posts for the 860K earlier in this thread if you can find the time to dig through it.
> I hope some of this may have helped. Most of the people in this thread have been helpful instead of suggesting that the best solution is to spend more money on an intel system. Not all of us live rent free with our parents.


Thanks, for sure your info has been helpful. I think I will start going up slowly. I hope to be able to achieve at 4.3GHz without any issue, tho I expect for more lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> CPU offset is set to Auto by default. It's a good idea to bump the value once (+ prefferably), because some motherboards, if offset is left to Auto, like to increase voltage to 1.512 (mine and some other peeps here encountered this). You will see your real voltage around 1.43 once you do that. Increase offset voltage further as needed when you raise CPU multiplier, and stress test using prime95 blend test, or some other tool.
> 
> As for LLC, as far as I know from reading this thread, the recommended settings for ASUS boards are High, both for CPU and NB.
> 
> I have a cooler thats similar to yours, and I can get my CPU to 4300Mhz and NB to 2000Mhz, with 15-20C on thermal margin. I bet I can do even better, as I experimented on hottest of days in years, and I used some old Scythe thermal paste that came with the cooler. Gonna try soon using some MX-4.


Alright thanks for the info! I will work on the offset and see how it goes. Also will leave the LLC set to High. Does the NB clock increases the performance? Is the thermal margin displayed at AMD's overdrive? I tried to enable it but it only showed me an option for start auto tunning or something like that.

Also at the moment I'm using CM ThermalFusion 400, got some Artic MX-4 on the way. Don't know the difference in their performance tho.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> That's what I thought this was all about - usual guessing game fog in an Asus manual.
> 
> Asus UEFI BIOS Utility>Advanced Mode>Boot Menu>CSM(Compatability Support Module)>
> Boot from PCIe/PCI Expansion Devices[Legacy OpROM firs|UEFI Driver firstt]


Again, that ONLY works with a device that has a built-in bootloader, like the Intel 750 or the Plextor M6e. I wish it wasn't the case but thems the facts. I can still use the drive as a fast gaming storage though so I guess thats ok.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright thanks for the info! I will work on the offset and see how it goes. Also will leave the LLC set to High. Does the NB clock increases the performance? Is the thermal margin displayed at AMD's overdrive? I tried to enable it but it only showed me an option for start auto tunning or something like that.
> 
> Also at the moment I'm using CM ThermalFusion 400, got some Artic MX-4 on the way. Don't know the difference in their performance tho.


Sure, NB clock gives some performance. From what I remember somewhere in this thread, it makes a difference, especially with 2400Mhz RAM. As far as I know, everyone in this thread could clock their CPUNB to 2000Mhz, but above that it gets tricky, at least for me and few others, as it either fails to boot or just fails every stress test. I didn't even touch the voltage when clocking to 2000, but I couldn't undervolt it either, so its staying rock solid at its default voltage, which is 1.137v.

In AMD overdrive, just go to CPU Status, there it shows you thermal margin for each core, you don't have to enable anything.

Don't know the difference in performance of your paste and mine, vs MX-4, but I believe there is some. Also, it's not expensive and every bit helps. It's a great all around paste.


----------



## coffeerox

@juanitox: keep in mind the setting for LLC is Medium on Asus boards. From my experience I didn't need to mess with this setting until 4.2.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Sure, NB clock gives some performance. From what I remember somewhere in this thread, it makes a difference, especially with 2400Mhz RAM. As far as I know, everyone in this thread could clock their CPUNB to 2000Mhz, but above that it gets tricky, at least for me and few others, as it either fails to boot or just fails every stress test. I didn't even touch the voltage when clocking to 2000, but I couldn't undervolt it either, so its staying rock solid at its default voltage, which is 1.3something.
> 
> In AMD overdrive, just go to CPU Status, there it shows you thermal margin for each core, you don't have to enable anything.
> 
> Don't know the difference in performance of your paste and mine, vs MX-4, but I believe there is some. Also, it's not expensive and every bit helps. It's a great all around paste.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> @juanitox: keep in mind the setting for LLC is Medium on Asus boards. From my experience I didn't need to mess with this setting until 4.2.


}

Thank you very much for your info guys. I will keep that in mind. My brother just told me the cpu arrived lol So I will prolly come and ask for more help this weekend! Thanks again


----------



## Scorpion49

Box build best build... it looks terrible but man this thing is literally silent at idle. PSU fan is off, GPU fans off, no spinning drives and the BeQuiet cooler is so silent I can't hear it when I put my face next to it lol


----------



## Jack13

I've never had the opportunity to use (or even touch) a BeQuiet cooler. I've heard that they really are quiet, but how does it compare to the likes of Noctua for silence and cooling? I like the low(ish) profile and would use one in a future HTPC build if it worked. I just don't trust review articles where the author gets free stuff to write an "unbiased" review.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I've never had the opportunity to use (or even touch) a BeQuiet cooler. I've heard that they really are quiet, but how does it compare to the likes of Noctua for silence and cooling? I like the low(ish) profile and would use one in a future HTPC build if it worked. I just don't trust review articles where the author gets free stuff to write an "unbiased" review.


Its a pain in the butt to install but very well made, and very, very quiet at idle. It does become audible when it spins up outside of a case like that, but my power supply is actually louder. The trick I've noticed with it is to not over tighten the screws, it has a convex base and it squishes all the thermal paste out if you tighten it too hard causing bad temps.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Its a pain in the butt to install but very well made, and very, very quiet at idle. It does become audible when it spins up outside of a case like that, but my power supply is actually louder. The trick I've noticed with it is to not over tighten the screws, it has a convex base and it squishes all the thermal paste out if you tighten it too hard causing bad temps.


I've heard nothing but good things about the Be Quiet Dark Rock series. There a couple of great reviews on the Dark Rock Pro 3 on YouTube. I think TimmyTechTV did one if I recall.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I've heard nothing but good things about the Be Quiet Dark Rock series. There a couple of great reviews on the Dark Rock Pro 3 on YouTube. I think TimmyTechTV did one if I recall.


Yeah its a great cooler, the thing that sucks for this one using the AMD socket is you have to lower the cooler onto the studs and then hold the whole thing together and flip it over to balance the board on the cooler to tighten it because it tightens from the bottom. If you mess up the paste gets everywhere or you get air bubbles in it.


----------



## Jack13

Thanks for the info!


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hmm I see, what would be considered a low voltage for an 860k on air?


As others have mentioned mileage will vary. I got a really bad sample and need high voltage just for avg. clock increases. Originally I had a very weak led fan on my 120mil rad and my temps would not allow me to comfortably push past 4.3GHz. My thermal margin would break the 10 degree barrier which is a no go in my book. I switched to a push/ pull using a pair of Corsair Static pressure performance fans rated at 2400 rpms and that effectively gained me 200 MHz on my OC.

From what I have read in this thread everyone has been pretty much guaranteed 4.2 on air or liquid. That paired with 2400MHz Ram and a decent GPU will give you great gaming exp. Just don't count your eggs before they are hatched. The one thing I don't like about this CPU is how inconsistent the samples are. You can have 3 guys get a CPU that will hit 4.2 on stock voltage and 3 guys like me will need to feed 4.2 with 1.46v. Right now I'm sitting at 4.3 and 1.50v with an aggressive push/ pull set up. I call that a damn shame lol.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> As others have mentioned mileage will vary. I got a really bad sample and need high voltage just for avg. clock increases. Originally I had a very weak led fan on my 120mil rad and my temps would not allow me to comfortably push past 4.3GHz. My thermal margin would break the 10 degree barrier which is a no go in my book. I switched to a push/ pull using a pair of Corsair Static pressure performance fans rated at 2400 rpms and that effectively gained me 200 MHz on my OC.
> 
> From what I have read in this thread everyone has been pretty much guaranteed 4.2 on air or liquid. That paired with 2400MHz Ram and a decent GPU will give you great gaming exp. Just don't count your eggs before they are hatched. The one thing I don't like about this CPU is how inconsistent the samples are. You can have 3 guys get a CPU that will hit 4.2 on stock voltage and 3 guys like me will need to feed 4.2 with 1.46v. Right now I'm sitting at 4.3 and 1.50v with an aggressive push/ pull set up. I call that a damn shame lol.


Ouch, yeah that's a shame, sorry to hear that >.< I just got mine, I hope this will be a lucky one. Wish me luck. I will install it tomorrow I think, it's getting late and I had some drinks lol


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Ouch, yeah that's a shame, sorry to hear that >.< I just got mine, I hope this will be a lucky one. Wish me luck. I will install it tomorrow I think, it's getting late and I had some drinks lol


Let us know definitely.


----------



## Jack13

I wonder if the hit and miss with these is something that could be determined by markings/mfg codes. I never thought to compare my new good one with the sub par that it replaced.
I can't remember where or the specifics, but somebody was able to determine a certain cpu's OC ability based on it's final assembly location.
If anyone is interested, here are the markings from my "dud";

AD860KXBI44JA
JA 1445SUS
9EA1481K40541

DIFFUSED IN GERMANY
MADE IN CHINA


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I wonder if the hit and miss with these is something that could be determined by markings/mfg codes. I never thought to compare my new good one with the sub par that it replaced.
> I can't remember where or the specifics, but somebody was able to determine a certain cpu's OC ability based on it's final assembly location.
> If anyone is interested, here are the markings from my "dud";
> 
> AD860KXBI44JA
> JA 1445SUS
> 9EA1481K40541
> 
> DIFFUSED IN GERMANY
> MADE IN CHINA


I recall when the Pentium G3258 was a hot ticket a lot of the guys were saying the better samples came from Asia and the duds from Costa Rica. There could be some truth to what you are saying.


----------



## Jack13

That rings a bell. The next time I pull my heatsink off, I'll take a look, but it probably won't tell me much. Just a thought.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.

I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Let us know definitely.


I will for sure, most likely tomorrow that I will have time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


Sorry to hear that x.x sounds like a horror story.

Also btw I downloaded and installed AMD Overdrive from AMD's site, when I run it my PC crashes, black screen and reboots by itself. Does anyone know how to fix it? Ty


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Also btw I downloaded and installed AMD Overdrive from AMD's site, when I run it my PC crashes, black screen and reboots by itself. Does anyone know how to fix it? Ty


When I had my A88X-Plus board it was doing the exact same thing. It would install fine, but as soon as I opened it, BAM! I never did find out what was causing it. I tried disabling everything I could, thinking that there was a conflict. Fresh drivers didn't work either. So I just gave up on it.
When I installed my Crossblade, with a fresh Win7 install, I had to put my old 860 in since newegg seemed to be shipping the new one in from Pluto. It worked but it was giving me obviously bs readings. It was saying that I had a thermal margin of over 40C at full load. When my new cpu finally arrived, I popped it in and Overdrive started working perfectly.
What conclusions you can draw from that, I don't know, but that's my experience.
Good luck!


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


wow. Is your motherboard going to be okay?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Also btw I downloaded and installed AMD Overdrive from AMD's site, when I run it my PC crashes, black screen and reboots by itself. Does anyone know how to fix it? Ty


Completely uninstall AMD Overdrive as well as your graphics driver (if you have an AMD GPU). Then reinstall the graphics driver and AMD Overdrive.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> wow. Is your motherboard going to be okay?


Motherboard seems fine, I picked up a 7700k locally and I'm running it typing this right now.


----------



## Jack13

Glad it worked out. You're fortunate to be able to pick one up locally. To get a cpu or motherboard I have to drive 105 miles to the nearest Microcenter or Fry's. All we have locally is Best Buy.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Glad it worked out. You're fortunate to be able to pick one up locally. To get a cpu or motherboard I have to drive 105 miles to the nearest Microcenter or Fry's. All we have locally is Best Buy.


Well, "locally" meant an hour drive to microcenter. I may or may not have dropped a grand on a Skylake build while I was there as well









Temptation was too high, willpower was too low, worked too much overtime in the last few months to feel bad about spending it lol


----------



## Jack13

"But it was already in the cart."

The wife never buys that one.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> "But it was already in the cart."
> 
> The wife never buys that one.


It definitely appeared in the cart as if by magic.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


Bruh sorry to hear that! Glad the motherboard is ok.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


That's a rotten thing to happen. It's one of those things like 'never lock anything unless you've got the key in your hand' - always twist first.
PS. Glad the board is ok.
PPS. Don't do that with Skylake.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> PPS. Don't do that with Skylake.


LOL. Would have been a totally different reaction, for me at least.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


RIP 860k

I had the same issue when taking of cooler. The paste got so stuck to the CPU that I had to twist the cooler around, and in the end the CPU still came off from the socket with cooler. That happaned with MX-2. It turns into concrete after a while.


----------



## Scorpion49

That cooler had been on for all of 3 to 4 days, but it set like concrete. It was so strongly on there that I had to get a small piece of wood and a hammer to scoot the chip off of the heatsink once it got done ripping apart. Sounded crazy too, like a big zipper opening.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


That sucks. Yours was a good clocker. Gotta remember with AMD to give it the twist. Happens so often.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That sucks. Yours was a good clocker. Gotta remember with AMD to give it the twist. Happens so often.


It isn't as easy as the old twist the stock cooler business. Balancing the board on the heatsink with one hand while you take out the screws from the back with the other leaves only my third hand free to try to twist the heatsink before the weight of the board flopping over rips the pins off. As you can see, I might clearly need four hands to do such a task rather than three.









What I mean is, the installation method of that heatsink sucks. A lot. Maybe I can get bequiet to replace my CPU lol.


----------



## Himo5

It's great being wise after the event, so - doing that - I've reorganised the procedure for myself: 1. Loosen screws enough to test the twist. 2. If it doesn't twist then tighten them up again and post back into BIOS long enough for it to warm up, then try again. Let's hope warnings like this are few and far between.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> It's great being wise after the event, so - doing that - I've reorganised the procedure for myself: 1. Loosen screws enough to test the twist. 2. If it doesn't twist then tighten them up again and post back into BIOS long enough for it to warm up, then try again. Let's hope warnings like this are few and far between.


Warming the TIM up and then gently twisting the HSF and not lifting it till its free usually does the trick. I think the TIM creates a vacuum bond between the cpu and the HSF that has to be broken.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well, August 22, 2105: rest in pepperonis Athlon 860k.
> 
> I went to take my heatsink off (which has to be done from the back) and didn't realize how good of a bond it had on the CPU, ripped it out of the socket and broke a whole row of pins off. I haven't done that since the 939 days


Ach! I never had that problem with light coatings of the Shin Etsu paste I used to use. What TIM were you using? Now that I have gone to the gallium side, I never have that problem. Also +1 for delidding . . . if that happens with a delid/relid setup, the worst you'll do is take the IHS with the HSF and leave the CPU in the socket, naked.

Still, sorry you lost your chip. But hey they're cheap, right?


----------



## chuy409

this has happened to me recently when I was removing my phenom 955. I had AS5 and stuck real nice. I accidently ripped the chip out of the socket. Luckily, all pins came with it and none got ripped off.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Ach! I never had that problem with light coatings of the Shin Etsu paste I used to use. What TIM were you using? Now that I have gone to the gallium side, I never have that problem. Also +1 for delidding . . . if that happens with a delid/relid setup, the worst you'll do is take the IHS with the HSF and leave the CPU in the socket, naked.
> 
> Still, sorry you lost your chip. But hey they're cheap, right?


I was using Noctua NT-H1, never had this happen with it before. It was seriously stuck on there, I think there might have been an air bubble in it keeping suction on it.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I was using Noctua NT-H1, never had this happen with it before. It was seriously stuck on there, I think there might have been an air bubble in it keeping suction on it.


My cooler also has screws in the back. I think I placed the cooler between my legs while I unscrewed the back of mobo, then after removing the screws, turned it around, twisted it and after I saw it getting loose I pulled, but the CPU came out of the socket. I bent one of the pins and somehow got some paste on few others. After fixing, I didn't have any problem with it.

Edit: Oh and btw, in order for me to unscrew my cooler, I have to remove motherboard entirely from the casing, because the casing partially covers the back of the cpu area, covering 2 screws entirely








So yeah, removing mobo from the casing helped me remove the cooler


----------



## juanitox

Alright guys, yesterday I installed my 860K, didn't overclock yet tho because got no time. But what happens with the temps is odd lol, same was happening with my 6600K, it idles around 40°C, then I stressed the CPU with the only thing I had around, the stress tool in the new CPU Z, left it like for 10 mins and the temp went up to 49°C, not more. Well the full load temp is okay, but the idle temp.

Could be the TIM am I using? (Thermalfusion 400). I got some MX-4 on the way. But I just can't explain my idle temp.


----------



## Jack13

What is your ambient temp? This time of year, mine is around 29° to 30° and I idle at 37°.
Just as a wild guess, since your load temp is right in the ballpark with that stress test, and it's doing the same thing as your old cpu, you MAY possibly have a sensor that gives you a bad reading at low temps. But I've never used the cooler you have, so I don't know it's characteristics.
I wouldn't think that it's the amount or type of thermal goop since it only seems to affect your idle temp readings. But, then again, I may be wrong (it's 7:30 am and the wife has already informed me that I've been wrong twice today already







)

EDIT: I just ran the CPU-Z stress test again and topped out at 50°


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> What is your ambient temp? This time of year, mine is around 29° to 30° and I idle at 37°.
> Just as a wild guess, since your load temp is right in the ballpark with that stress test, and it's doing the same thing as your old cpu, you MAY possibly have a sensor that gives you a bad reading at low temps. But I've never used the cooler you have, so I don't know it's characteristics.
> I wouldn't think that it's the amount or type of thermal goop since it only seems to affect your idle temp readings. But, then again, I may be wrong (it's 7:30 am and the wife has already informed me that I've been wrong twice today already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> EDIT: I just ran the CPU-Z stress test again and topped out at 50°


lol twice today, now she will remind you for the whole week how wrong you were today. Hmm and my ambient temp, it has been around 25°C. And I have thought about the sensor, but don't know how to test it. Your temps looks like mine, so now I don't know if mines are normal, tho I was expecting idling aroun 35° but I might be wrong now.

Maybe I should try to improve my case airflow, because I got a bottom front and bottom intake, but I kinda feel my videocard blocks the airflow. Hmm I could mod the front, remove the 3 bay covers, since I don't have disk drives and mount a fan there.


----------



## drmrlordx

What are you using to monitor your temperatures? Kaveri has strange temperature sensors that are not all that well-supported by common monitoring software.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> What are you using to monitor your temperatures? Kaveri has strange temperature sensors that are not all that well-supported by common monitoring software.


I use AIDA64, AI Suite 3 and SpeedFan, all of them reporting same temps.


----------



## juanitox

I got a question guys, should I start overclocking at stock CPU voltage and stock LLC and find till where it's stable? Then start adding voltage and playing with the LLC?


----------



## syl1979

Hi

To my point of view you should try to start with relatively safe voltage of 1.45v, without LLC. you should be able to get a least 4.2Ghz with this voltage. Try to check your maximum stable frequency ( you can try to increase quickly until you cannot boot your OS, then lower back your frequency and verify your stability under prime95 and maybe some games ( I found Alan Wake to be quite sensible)

Check your temperature under load like prime95 test and also thermal margin (coretemp shoes it well). If you are more than 15degC thermal margin you should be able to increase the voltage.
.
Or if you have already a target like 4.5Ghz, start at 1.45v and increase voltage until you are stable.

Later you can play with LLC to check if it helps to decrease the base voltage.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Hi
> 
> To my point of view you should try to start with relatively safe voltage of 1.45v, without LLC. you should be able to get a least 4.2Ghz with this voltage. Try to check your maximum stable frequency ( you can try to increase quickly until you cannot boot your OS, then lower back your frequency and verify your stability under prime95 and maybe some games ( I found Alan Wake to be quite sensible)
> 
> Check your temperature under load like prime95 test and also thermal margin (coretemp shoes it well). If you are more than 15degC thermal margin you should be able to increase the voltage.
> .
> Or if you have already a target like 4.5Ghz, start at 1.45v and increase voltage until you are stable.
> 
> Later you can play with LLC to check if it helps to decrease the base voltage.


Thanks for the info!







Gotta check my VID because I'm planning to set offset. Just gathering as much info as I can before starting, also waiting on the new memory kit that should be arriving today or tomorrow. So I can start trying with everything together, since the RAM I own is 1333, this new kit is 2400.

EDIT: Well my aim is as high as I can get (stable) with my current hardware and within safe margins.


----------



## drmrlordx

Hmm. Speedfan is usually accurate for CPU temp (no thermal margin but oh well). I can not explain your high ambients. If the swing between idle and load is small, then you're okay-ish, though I would still be bothered by the temps. @ 4.5 GHz, my 7700k loads to about 42C in Prime95 custom (768k/768k ffts in place). @ 4.7 GHz it goes up to about 49C due to the extra voltage. Idle is 28c in both cases.

I would try running your setup with the side of the case off. Try blowing a desk fan into the side as well, just to see what happens. If your temps drop then it's probably a case airflow issue.

Btw, wrt LLC: I recommend whatever setting gives you 60% LLC.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hmm. Speedfan is usually accurate for CPU temp (no thermal margin but oh well). I can not explain your high ambients. If the swing between idle and load is small, then you're okay-ish, though I would still be bothered by the temps. @ 4.5 GHz, my 7700k loads to about 42C in Prime95 custom (768k/768k ffts in place). @ 4.7 GHz it goes up to about 49C due to the extra voltage. Idle is 28c in both cases.
> 
> I would try running your setup with the side of the case off. Try blowing a desk fan into the side as well, just to see what happens. If your temps drop then it's probably a case airflow issue.
> 
> Btw, wrt LLC: I recommend whatever setting gives you 60% LLC.


Thanks for your reply. Yeah those temps are bothering me. I got 2 extra fans on the way. A slim TT Luna 120mm for the top exhaust over the CPU heatsink and a CM jetflo for the CPU cooler. Also I'm planning to install one at the top front, since I'm not using those bays. Also this time I tightened my hyper evo 212 even more, temps didn't change tho. Ordered some Artic MX4 as well. Let's hope it's some case airflow issue, the temps were kinda the same with my 6600k.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hey guy's just wanted to let you know that you can C6 state and let the overclock throttle down to 1700 mhz. That way you aren't eating your electric bill with the overclock unless you need it.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I was using Noctua NT-H1, never had this happen with it before. It was seriously stuck on there, I think there might have been an air bubble in it keeping suction on it.


Yeah, I like to use power saving modes with OC too. The one that scales down to 1700Mhz is AMD Power Now (Cool n Quiet). The C6 one further saves power by putting to sleep unused cores. Having the second one enabled can give lower score in some benches.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Hey guy's just wanted to let you know that you can C6 state and let the overclock throttle down to 1700 mhz. That way you aren't eating your electric bill with the overclock unless you need it.


Yeah once I stabilized my OC I reset C6 Mode, Cool and Quiet and APM. Running the type of voltage I need to keep this handicapped of a CPU sample I got every little bit of power saving helps.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks for your reply. Yeah those temps are bothering me. I got 2 extra fans on the way. A slim TT Luna 120mm for the top exhaust over the CPU heatsink and a CM jetflo for the CPU cooler. Also I'm planning to install one at the top front, since I'm not using those bays. Also this time I tightened my hyper evo 212 even more, temps didn't change tho. Ordered some Artic MX4 as well. Let's hope it's some case airflow issue, the temps were kinda the same with my 6600k.


Isn't it just that the automatic fan control sets minimum RPM at idle ? if the Target temperature for CPU is quite high (70 degC) the fan will remain at low RPM even if it gets around 40 deg at idle.
Try to get fan RPM readings at idle and check the curve of speed when putting CPU on load and then back to idle...


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Isn't it just that the automatic fan control sets minimum RPM at idle ? if the Target temperature for CPU is quite high (70 degC) the fan will remain at low RPM even if it gets around 40 deg at idle.
> Try to get fan RPM readings at idle and check the curve of speed when putting CPU on load and then back to idle...


I wish it was that :/ I set the CPU fan to 100% once I noticed my temps. So if it's not the case airflow, might be a faulty cooler? Can't think of anything else


----------



## juanitox

Alright guys, I wanted to do some tests because I ddidn't want to wait till weekend, anyway couldn't test too much because my spare time is too short. Set the offset to 0.025V, LLC Medium (60%), Multiplier x42.

Ran Prime Blend for like 15 mins with 0 errors and 0 warnings. The core voltage read by CPUZ was 1.368V. Max temp I saw was 56°C. Prolly I gotta work on my case airflow or the issue with my temps. How is it doing this far?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I wish it was that :/ I set the CPU fan to 100% once I noticed my temps. So if it's not the case airflow, might be a faulty cooler? Can't think of anything else


What is your voltage and frequency at idle ? does it go down to 1.7Ghz / 0.95 v or stays at max power (cool and quiet disabled) ?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Ran Prime Blend for like 15 mins with 0 errors and 0 warnings. The core voltage read by CPUZ was 1.368V. Max temp I saw was 56°C. Prolly I gotta work on my case airflow or the issue with my temps. How is it doing this far?


I am curious, what is your CPU VID ? You should be able to read it from the bios under Advanced / CPU Configuration.

I guess you are a lucky one with around 1.31V. Mine is 1.41V


----------



## coffeerox

I was thinking about it and I had LLC set to Auto this whole time for all the OC runs up to 4.1. I enabled LLC to medium for 4.2 and 4.3 at 20%. I know that LLC takes a chunk out of margin just by having it at on. My method for increasing settings is to be as conservative as possible but the LLC setting did not fall in line w/ that. I ran a test at 0% LLC (Regular) and 4.2 ran stable for 5min and it ran cooler than before at 41c. Voltage under load is lower too.

Multi: 42x
Volt: 1.39 (Manual)
LLC: 0% (Regular/Disabled)
CPU current 130/120 (I stayed away from red numbers)
Phase: Optimized, T.Probe



Gonna push for 4.3 and see how low I can keep everything.

edit:
bleh. All roads lead to the same setting at 4.3. I could probably hit 4.4 with a water cooler and more voltage but the cost isn't worth it to me.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> What is your voltage and frequency at idle ? does it go down to 1.7Ghz / 0.95 v or stays at max power (cool and quiet disabled) ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I am curious, what is your CPU VID ? You should be able to read it from the bios under Advanced / CPU Configuration.
> 
> I guess you are a lucky one with around 1.31V. Mine is 1.41V


My VID is around 1.3... something, forgot the exact number but yeah it was lowish, I'll check tonight when I'm home, just yesterday was kinda in a rush so didn't take note of everything.

I disabled C6, APM Master, CPB. I left AMD PowerNow on. At idle my voltage is staying at 1.3.. and something, will take note of that, also it stays @ 4.2GHz. So I don't know :/

Edit:
* Will try AMD Overdrive for my thermal margins, again. I hope this time it won't crash my computer
** Also need to check if the problem for my temps is my room ._. it's the hottest place in the house for some reason. Yesterday night it was raining and cold outside but I swear it was like over 25°C inside my room ._. Problem is I can't move my PC somwhere else and since the place around is kinda dusty don't how good a fan would be.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I was thinking about it and I had LLC set to Auto this whole time for all the OC runs up to 4.1. I enabled LLC to medium for 4.2 and 4.3 at 20%. I know that LLC takes a chunk out of margin just by having it at on. My method for increasing settings is to be as conservative as possible but the LLC setting did not fall in line w/ that. I ran a test at 0% LLC (Regular) and 4.2 ran stable for 5min and it ran cooler than before at 41c. Voltage under load is lower too.
> 
> Multi: 42x
> Volt: 1.39 (Manual)
> LLC: 0% (Regular/Disabled)
> CPU current 130/120 (I stayed away from red numbers)
> Phase: Optimized, T.Probe
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna push for 4.3 and see how low I can keep everything.
> 
> edit:
> bleh. All roads lead to the same setting at 4.3. I could probably hit 4.4 with a water cooler and more voltage but the cost isn't worth it to me.


Looking good. I want to stay as low as I can as well. On weekend I will have more time to play with it and try to bring the clock higher. I just wish my temps stay low and with something I have planned for the airflow and some Artic MX-4,will see if the new TIM helps.


----------



## syl1979

There seems to be one incompatibility between amd overdrive and asus mainboard.. Crashing on my config also. I use coretemp to see the thermal margin


----------



## coffeerox

So I reverted back to my 4.0 profile and noticed that the core voltage was WAYYY too high, and it was running too hot. Core voltage was 1.528 on CPU-Z and my temps was going into the single digits on thermal margin. Offset voltage was set to +0.006. I set that to Auto and it was within safe voltage (1.44) however that's still too high for 4.0 as that's a voltage close to what I run for 4.3. Changed the sign from + to - and now temps are much better and voltage is surprisingly low (below stock actually).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Looking good. I want to stay as low as I can as well. On weekend I will have more time to play with it and try to bring the clock higher. I just wish my temps stay low and with something I have planned for the airflow and some Artic MX-4,will see if the new TIM helps.


Try lowering the LLC. I think Medium is different for everyone. On mine, Medium is actually 20%, not 60%. Crazy part is that we both have Asus A88X boards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> There seems to be one incompatibility between amd overdrive and asus mainboard.. Crashing on my config also. I use coretemp to see the thermal margin


Running fine on mine. I hear it's due to an incomplete install so you have to fully uninstall Catalyst as well as Overdrive and reinstall both.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> There seems to be one incompatibility between amd overdrive and asus mainboard.. Crashing on my config also. I use coretemp to see the thermal margin


Thanks, i will give CoreTemp a try.

Also guys another question, sorry I ask too much x.x and thanks in advance. Any consideration I should have to install my 2400 RAM? Should I input all the values manually? I read somewhere loading the XMP profiles would change stuff you don't want to change in your BIOS. And should I do something to the NB frecuency and voltage?


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> So I reverted back to my 4.0 profile and noticed that the core voltage was WAYYY too high, and it was running too hot. Core voltage was 1.528 on CPU-Z and my temps was going into the single digits on thermal margin. Offset voltage was set to +0.006. I set that to Auto and it was within safe voltage (1.44) however that's still too high for 4.0 as that's a voltage close to what I run for 4.3. Changed the sign from + to - and now temps are much better and voltage is surprisingly low (below stock actually).
> Try lowering the LLC. I think Medium is different for everyone. On mine, Medium is actually 20%, not 60%. Crazy part is that we both have Asus A88X boards.
> Running fine on mine. I hear it's due to an incomplete install so you have to fully uninstall Catalyst as well as Overdrive and reinstall both.


For some reason when I checked the medium for LLC it said 60%, but there were like another 4 options. Will check again tonight. Also I don't know if 56°C is good for 4.2GHz and CoreV 1.368V at full load. Should I blame the CM 212 Evo or my case. I always had high temps at load, even with my previous cooler a ZALMAN CNPS5X Performa with my stock A8 6600K, not even on on prime but on games it would go over 60°C.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> For some reason when I checked the medium for LLC it said 60%, but there were like another 4 options. Will check again tonight. Also I don't know if 56°C is good for 4.2GHz and CoreV 1.368V at full load. Should I blame the CM 212 Evo or my case. I always had high temps at load, even with my previous cooler a ZALMAN CNPS5X Performa with my stock A8 6600K, not even on on prime but on games it would go over 60°C.


On mine, LLC goes:
Regular 0%
Medium 20%
High 40%
Extreme 100%

I figured since we both use Asus A88X boards, the settings were the same but apparently not. I read that you shouldn't go past 20%.

As for temps. I get 41c with 4.2 using the 212 Evo so to me, 56c sounds high. At that range, your margins should be almost gone. The core voltage though is really good but I'd run some more sensors to see if it's truly 1.368.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> On mine, LLC goes:
> Regular 0%
> Medium 20%
> High 40%
> Extreme 100%
> 
> I figured since we both use Asus A88X boards, the settings were the same but apparently not. I read that you shouldn't go past 20%.
> 
> As for temps. I get 41c with 4.2 using the 212 Evo so to me, 56c sounds high. At that range, your margins should be almost gone. The core voltage though is really good but I'd run some more sensors to see if it's truly 1.368.


Hmm gonna check, because now my temp is bugging me even more :/ It sucks lol


----------



## kxnxng

I've got the same LLC settings on a crossblade ranger.

Im currently testing 4.3 ghz with the lowest possible settings to save some power and money on bills lol, but i keep getting these drops in AIDA64, anyone knows why im getting this, it doesnt hang or anything and tests are passing...
Is this because of Power now, C6 or APM?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kxnxng*
> 
> I've got the same LLC settings on a crossblade ranger.
> 
> Im currently testing 4.3 ghz with the lowest possible settings to save some power and money on bills lol, but i keep getting these drops in AIDA64, anyone knows why im getting this, it doesnt hang or anything and tests are passing...
> Is this because of Power now, C6 or APM?


If you want to reach higher frequencies on a Kaveri based CPU you will need to use Medium or High LLC setting. The higher settings tighten the voltage spreads and that apparently helps with stability for Kaveri CPUs.

The frequency/voltage drops you see are a consequence of PowerNow/Cool'n'Quiet being enabled. When one round of Prime95 tests finish, your CPU goes into a lower P-State until another round starts. It's only for a few seconds.

If you really want to find rock bottom lowest voltage for a CPU frequency, it might be necessary to disable CnQ. I personally think that leaving CnQ is how the CPU will be working normally so why not test it in it's expected working environment.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> On mine, LLC goes:
> Regular 0%
> Medium 20%
> High 40%
> Extreme 100%
> 
> I figured since we both use Asus A88X boards, the settings were the same but apparently not. I read that you shouldn't go past 20%..


That's odd. I thought medium was 60% (the level recommended by The Stilt, if I recall correctly).


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MatrixDecker*
> 
> If you want to reach higher frequencies on a Kaveri based CPU you will need to use Medium or High LLC setting. The higher settings tighten the voltage spreads and that apparently helps with stability for Kaveri CPUs.
> 
> The frequency/voltage drops you see are a consequence of PowerNow/Cool'n'Quiet being enabled. When one round of Prime95 tests finish, your CPU goes into a lower P-State until another round starts. It's only for a few seconds.
> 
> If you really want to find rock bottom lowest voltage for a CPU frequency, it might be necessary to disable CnQ. I personally think that leaving CnQ is how the CPU will be working normally so why not test it in it's expected working environment.


The Stilt says medium LLC is best for Kaveri, Godavari iirc. Sorry drmlordx. You beat me to it.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I am curious, what is your CPU VID ? You should be able to read it from the bios under Advanced / CPU Configuration.
> 
> I guess you are a lucky one with around 1.31V. Mine is 1.41V


Okay I just checked and my CPU VID is 1.337V.



Also the LLC options for this ASUS A88X-PLUS are:

Regular: 0%
Medium: 60%
High: 80%
Extreme: 100%


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> That's odd. I thought medium was 60% (the level recommended by The Stilt, if I recall correctly).


I can't find the thread but wasn't it a difference between Asus and Gigabyte boards?


----------



## MatrixDecker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I can't find the thread but wasn't it a difference between Asus and Gigabyte boards?


Yes, Gigabyte goes Standard, Low, Medium, Extreme, and Asus goes Regular, Medium, High, Extreme. So, on Gigabyte boards pick Medium as the highest LLC setting worth using, and on Asus boards pick High. Extreme causes voltage overshooting (overcompensation). So, as a general rule of thumb for all boards, use the setting one step below Extreme as the highest one worth using.

The percentage settings mean the same thing. The default setting is 100% (0% reduction) voltage spread (AMD specification allowed voltage difference from the set voltage). The next one (Low or Medium) is 80% spread (20% reduction). The next one (preferred for higher frequencies) is 60% spread (40% reduction). The Extreme setting is 0% spread (100% reduction). Each step up from default means that the VRMs section has to work harder to compensate better for voltage fluctuations.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I am curious, what is your CPU VID ? You should be able to read it from the bios under Advanced / CPU Configuration.
> 
> I guess you are a lucky one with around 1.31V. Mine is 1.41V


1.41 VID? Mine is close at 1.39 . I agree 1.31 is pretty good. That would mean the difference of me comfortably sitting at 4.5 4.6 GHz with my cooling setup.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> The Stilt says medium LLC is best for Kaveri, Godavari iirc. Sorry drmlordx. You beat me to it.


No problemo, but you remember the same as I.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Also the LLC options for this ASUS A88X-PLUS are:
> 
> Regular: 0%
> Medium: 60%
> High: 80%
> Extreme: 100%


That's what I thought they were for the A88x-Pro as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I can't find the thread but wasn't it a difference between Asus and Gigabyte boards?


Probably. I am not all that familiar with the Gigabyte LLC options on FM2+.


----------



## tone1492

I remember reading the ASUS High setting is comparable to Gigabyte's Medium LLC. I can say on the Gigabyte UP4 the medium setting is the only one that almost completely neutralizes vdroop. The higher settings like Extreme produced some scary over volting. I would avoid Extreme at all costs no matter the board manufacturer.


----------



## drmrlordx

In my experience, Medium eliminates vdroop effectively on my A88x-Pro.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> In my experience, Medium eliminates vdroop effectively on my A88x-Pro.


How do I know what LLC is good to eliminate my vdroop? I'm not familiar with the term yet.


----------



## newguyeverytime

I turned the LLC to high and was able to get a stable 4.3 for the first time. I can probably push it to 4.4, but I'll give this a few weeks to see if I get a crash.


----------



## VerdePeFum

It have 2 mb x 2 , in total 4 . I have one and i'm happy with it. 28 nm vs 32 on 760k . 860k vs 7850k , it's same thing but on the 860k the gpu it's disable.Buy it ! you can't go wrong


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> How do I know what LLC is good to eliminate my vdroop? I'm not familiar with the term yet.


Try it and run a stability test like Prime95 and find out. Watch CPU-ID and make sure your multi doesn't fluctuate. Also watch for swings in voltage. Or Fire up AMD Overdrive, look at the cpu pane and watch that your cpu's stay pegged at 100%.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> How do I know what LLC is good to eliminate my vdroop? I'm not familiar with the term yet.


The best you can do is see where the CPU's voltage sits with a tool like CPU-z while you are running a CPU stress test. vdroop has been around for awhile, and you will see if it you set LLC to 0% (Regular). Let's say you set 1.4v vcore by hand, then stress the CPU at a high-ish clockspeed. You'll see your vcore drop to maybe 1.36v from board-induced droop under that load. Then set the LLC to 60% (Medium) and it'll maybe fluctuate between 1.396 and 1.404 or something like that. Much better.

Set it to High or Extreme and the voltage will actually run above 1.4v, sometimes by .1-.2v. Not so good.

There are some voltage spike events you can't detect due to the short time periods involved. This usually happens when you end a stressful program that pushes your CPU to its limits. If you have a lot of droop, and your CPU is running at 1.36v (as above), you might get a spike into the 1.45-1.5v range (or worse, depending on board VRM quality) when the CPU stops running so hard but the board (momentarily) keeps feeding in max power anyway. LLC can protect you from that by evening out the spike somewhat. But you will never see it without precise monitoring equipment.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Try it and run a stability test like Prime95 and find out. Watch CPU-ID and make sure your multi doesn't fluctuate. Also watch for swings in voltage. Or Fire up AMD Overdrive, look at the cpu pane and watch that your cpu's stay pegged at 100%.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> The best you can do is see where the CPU's voltage sits with a tool like CPU-z while you are running a CPU stress test. vdroop has been around for awhile, and you will see if it you set LLC to 0% (Regular). Let's say you set 1.4v vcore by hand, then stress the CPU at a high-ish clockspeed. You'll see your vcore drop to maybe 1.36v from board-induced droop under that load. Then set the LLC to 60% (Medium) and it'll maybe fluctuate between 1.396 and 1.404 or something like that. Much better.
> 
> Set it to High or Extreme and the voltage will actually run above 1.4v, sometimes by .1-.2v. Not so good.
> 
> There are some voltage spike events you can't detect due to the short time periods involved. This usually happens when you end a stressful program that pushes your CPU to its limits. If you have a lot of droop, and your CPU is running at 1.36v (as above), you might get a spike into the 1.45-1.5v range (or worse, depending on board VRM quality) when the CPU stops running so hard but the board (momentarily) keeps feeding in max power anyway. LLC can protect you from that by evening out the spike somewhat. But you will never see it without precise monitoring equipment.


Thank you very much guys for your answer. I will start checking it. Maybe next weekend, I didn't get my new fans this weekend ._. prolly on monday.

I think the problem with my temps is my room, that is not getting enough air, for example today it was 30°C outside and inside my room was like 35°C so prolly won't get an AC but will try with a fan x.x


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thank you very much guys for your answer. I will start checking it. Maybe next weekend, I didn't get my new fans this weekend ._. prolly on monday.
> 
> I think the problem with my temps is my room, that is not getting enough air, for example today it was 30°C outside and inside my room was like 35°C so prolly won't get an AC but will try with a fan x.x


Mine was 32c inside, 46c outside with AC off. Needless to say I had to reverse my OC's, even with the 212 Evo cooling it. My GPU wasn't doing too well either w/ the VRMs overheating


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thank you very much guys for your answer. I will start checking it. Maybe next weekend, I didn't get my new fans this weekend ._. prolly on monday.
> 
> I think the problem with my temps is my room, that is not getting enough air, for example today it was 30°C outside and inside my room was like 35°C so prolly won't get an AC but will try with a fan x.x


I've found out as I'm sure others here already knew that room temps play a huge role. Also make sure you have quality static pressure fans on your heatsink or radiator. I made the mistake of putting a pretty red led fan on my radiator, but it didn't do a good job of pushing out the hot air. I bought a pair of Corsair SP Performace fans and went for a push/ pull. That took me from breaking 10 degrees on my thermal threshold to never seeing the teens with very high voltage. Good fans really make a difference.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I think the problem with my temps is my room, that is not getting enough air, for example today it was 30°C outside and inside my room was like 35°C so prolly won't get an AC but will try with a fan x.x


35C ambients would explain your case temps. It's manageable, but you are going to be pretty pinched on overclocks under those conditions.


----------



## syl1979

I have played a little today.

Could find some settings for running at 4.5Ghz. ( but with my case I have to stay at 4.2Ghz to avoid mid term throttling). It was enough to make some cinebench R15 benches. Quite happy with the result.

I use DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 1.5v, overclocked to 2133 10-11-11-31 1.6v

Ref Score : 320
Northbridge 2000 : 322
4.2Ghz : 358
4.3Ghz :363
4.4 Ghz :372
4.5 Ghz : 380



Edit : updated Ref score witn Win10 data


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I've found out as I'm sure others here already knew that room temps play a huge role. Also make sure you have quality static pressure fans on your heatsink or radiator. I made the mistake of putting a pretty red led fan on my radiator, but it didn't do a good job of pushing out the hot air. I bought a pair of Corsair SP Performace fans and went for a push/ pull. That took me from breaking 10 degrees on my thermal threshold to never seeing the teens with very high voltage. Good fans really make a difference.


Thanks! I'm replacing the stock fan of the CM Hyper 212 EVO for a CM JetFlo 120. I hope that will do a better job.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 35C ambients would explain your case temps. It's manageable, but you are going to be pretty pinched on overclocks under those conditions.


Yeah, I will try to improve the airflow in my room and check. For example today I'm getting 34°C at idle because the morning is fresh.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks! I'm replacing the stock fan of the CM Hyper 212 EVO for a CM JetFlo 120. I hope that will do a better job.
> Yeah, I will try to improve the airflow in my room and check. For example today I'm getting 34°C at idle because the morning is fresh.


Instead of replacing the fan, why don't you do a push/pull by adding another fan on the opposite side?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Instead of replacing the fan, why don't you do a push/pull by adding another fan on the opposite side?


One good Delta or Yates Loon high static pressure fan will destroy the cheezy stock Hyper 212 EVO stock fan even if you use two in push pull.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> One good Delta or Yates Loon high static pressure fan will destroy the cheezy stock Hyper 212 EVO stock fan even if you use two in push pull.


Not only that, but quality fans can last for years. I have a 120x120x38mm Nidec Servo and 120x120x25mm Delta. They are both rated at around ~100 cfm and they are noisy, but they produce good static pressure. You can probably get better fans today, but regardless, those fans have lasted me since '09. No funny extra noises or other odd behavior, just . . . consistent performance. You can take them from one HSF/rad to the next assuming they are sized properly. Do your homework, and you can find some good buys on 120mm fans that will push serious air.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Not only that, but quality fans can last for years. I have a 120x120x38mm Nidec Servo and 120x120x25mm Delta. They are both rated at around ~100 cfm and they are noisy, but they produce good static pressure. You can probably get better fans today, but regardless, those fans have lasted me since '09. No funny extra noises or other odd behavior, just . . . consistent performance. You can take them from one HSF/rad to the next assuming they are sized properly. Do your homework, and you can find some good buys on 120mm fans that will push serious air.


100% agreed. Good quality fans are built like tanks. The blades are well balanced and don't wobble. They can be loud but I am 54 and can't hear for crap anyway. They usually come in one color- black!


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I have played a little today.
> 
> Could find some settings for running at 4.5Ghz. ( but with my case I have to stay at 4.2Ghz to avoid mid term throttling). It was enough to make some cinebench R15 benches. Quite happy with the result.
> 
> Ref Score : 306
> 4.2Ghz : 358
> 4.3Ghz :363
> 4.4 Ghz :372
> 4.5 Ghz : 380


Great score


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> 100% agreed. Good quality fans are built like tanks. The blades are well balanced and don't wobble. They can be loud but I am 54 and can't hear for crap anyway. They usually come in one color- black!


Lol this was funny. Yeah my Corsairs are really loud it took me a week to get used to them. After that it became a non issue.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Instead of replacing the fan, why don't you do a push/pull by adding another fan on the opposite side?


I actually have one SickleFlow puling the air, but I'm not so convinced, so I wil use that fan in the front for my mod, so I try to improve the airflow. I got a pwm cable adapter so I can use it with the JetFlo and the stock fan together.

Since I feel so artistic today, this is what my case is. The blue circles are the fans already installed in my case, the red ones are the ones I'm planning to install to improve my airflow. Notice that my videocard also kinda takes all that space like the one in the pic, so I'm not sure if the CPU is getting enough cool air from the bottom, so I will install a fan at the top-front. What do you think?



Also yesterday I was like fork it, I will get an AIO liquid cooler, but I have spent a lot of money lately x.x


----------



## syl1979

Hi,

Just to tell again that I feel this Athlon 860K is a great processor for "budget" gaming.

In a system with a good sub 100$ mainboard, a good top flow CPU cooler, 4Gb high speed memory and paired with a 150$ graphic card like R7 370 or GTX950, once overclocked it will perform very good in most games at 1080p.

You could take an i3 for a little bit more money, but you would loose all the fun of overclocking...


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I actually have one SickleFlow puling the air, but I'm not so convinced, so I wil use that fan in the front for my mod, so I try to improve the airflow. I got a pwm cable adapter so I can use it with the JetFlo and the stock fan together.
> 
> Since I feel so artistic today, this is what my case is. The blue circles are the fans already installed in my case, the red ones are the ones I'm planning to install to improve my airflow. Notice that my videocard also kinda takes all that space like the one in the pic, so I'm not sure if the CPU is getting enough cool air from the bottom, so I will install a fan at the top-front. What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> Also yesterday I was like fork it, I will get an AIO liquid cooler, but I have spent a lot of money lately x.x


More fans is not always better. What you'll do if you put all of those in is make dead zones where air doesn't move at all. If you're having heat problems, first I would try moving the bottom intake to the top exhaust (if you have a top flow cooler like the one in the pic, avoid putting it directly over it as it disturbs the coolers flow).


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> More fans is not always better. What you'll do if you put all of those in is make dead zones where air doesn't move at all. If you're having heat problems, first I would try moving the bottom intake to the top exhaust (if you have a top flow cooler like the one in the pic, avoid putting it directly over it as it disturbs the coolers flow).


The picture was just reference for showing fan positions in the case, I got a CM Hyper 212 EVO. And I don't know if the videocard is blocking the air coming from the bottom. So what fans should I add? The red circles are the options I have.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> The picture was just reference for showing fan positions in the case, I got a CM Hyper 212 EVO. And I don't know if the videocard is blocking the air coming from the bottom. So what fans should I add? The red circles are the options I have.


What is the problem you're actually having? I missed it in the past few pages, just wanted to warn you about piling in more fans.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> What is the problem you're actually having? I missed it in the past few pages, just wanted to warn you about piling in more fans.


My temps are kinda high, normally idling at 40°C on stock, and around 43°C when I OC to 4.2. The load temps go up to 56 - 57°C with my current cooler. And normally my ambient temps are around 25°C tho it can go higher. So I had the feeling maybe the CPU cooler wasn't getting enough fresh air.

At the moment I got installed 1 bottom intake, 1 bottom-front intake and 1 rear-top exhaust, but prolly the videocard is keeping the fresh air from the bottom to flow and the one that actually makes it prolly it's hot from the videocard and the SSD/HDD. My idea was prolly adding a top-front intake and at least 1 top exhaust. So I'm looking for some advice about where to position my fans. That's why I haven't been able to overclock properly or push the limit









Ty in advance


----------



## Redzo

I feel everyone's pain gents. My room is @ 30c ambient right now, and it's 17:37 or 5:37PM...... Wicked hot it is, but fortunately my OC gets to mid 40s to low 50s on these hot days (Phenom though, just wanted to share the ambient temperature pain that's the bane of my happiness )


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> My temps are kinda high, normally idling at 40°C on stock, and around 43°C when I OC to 4.2. The load temps go up to 56 - 57°C with my current cooler. And normally my ambient temps are around 25°C tho it can go higher. So I had the feeling maybe the CPU cooler wasn't getting enough fresh air.
> 
> At the moment I got installed 1 bottom intake, 1 bottom-front intake and 1 rear-top exhaust, but prolly the videocard is keeping the fresh air from the bottom to flow and the one that actually makes it prolly it's hot from the videocard and the SSD/HDD. My idea was prolly adding a top-front intake and at least 1 top exhaust. So I'm looking for some advice about where to position my fans. That's why I haven't been able to overclock properly or push the limit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ty in advance


Can you post a pic of your actual machine? It seems like the ambient temps might be to blame more than anything, although my 860k ran very warm with a 212+ EVO as well. At 4.4ghz I was within 5* of thermal margin with only 1.325V.


----------



## miklkit

That air flow pattern makes it look like the hot air from the GPU is being sucked into the CPU cooler. Try adding more intake fans to the top of the case to keep hot GPU air away from the CPU cooler.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redzo*
> 
> I feel everyone's pain gents. My room is @ 30c ambient right now, and it's 17:37 or 5:37PM...... Wicked hot it is, but fortunately my OC gets to mid 40s to low 50s on these hot days (Phenom though, just wanted to share the ambient temperature pain that's the bane of my happiness )


Ouch :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Can you post a pic of your actual machine? It seems like the ambient temps might be to blame more than anything, although my 860k ran very warm with a 212+ EVO as well. At 4.4ghz I was within 5* of thermal margin with only 1.325V.


Okay, I will take a pic once I'm home, but yeah maybe ambient temps would be the cause of my problem.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> That air flow pattern makes it look like the hot air from the GPU is being sucked into the CPU cooler. Try adding more intake fans to the top of the case to keep hot GPU air away from the CPU cooler.


Yeah, well to be honest I don't know where the air from the GPU is going.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Yeah, well to be honest I don't know where the air from the GPU is going.


It really doesn't matter too much, an R7 265 doesn't put out enough heat to bother much of anything. If you're really curious, cut yourself a strip of paper and move it around in the case and see where the airflow is, you'll be surprised at what you find I think.


----------



## drmrlordx

. . . and that's why I just take the side off of my case and point a desk fan into the side. The only dead zone, if any, is in the 5 1/4" drive bay where I stash excess PSU cable length.


----------



## miklkit

The airflow in that case looks to be going from the bottom front to the top rear. Most of the cool intake air has to go past the GPU on its way to the CPU and then out the case.

I didn't think GPUs made much difference either until I switched from a 280X to a 290X and CPU temps went up 4C.


----------



## dlee7283

Why is this processor so popular?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

It's the closest we got to a Steamroller FX chip (ala FX-4500).


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> Why is this processor so popular?


This dude again smh


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This dude again smh


I just am unfamiliar as I assumed it was a FX 4300 with no level 3.

Wondering if it will still have the same luster after the i3 skylake is released.

I used a phenom ii for the longest time when the core 2 quad was vastly overpriced so I am a secret AMD fan that is trying to figure out if this processor was just a Fx with no level 3 but it seems to be on par with nehalem in many regards.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> I just am unfamiliar as I assumed it was a FX 4300 with no level 3.
> 
> Wondering if it will still have the same luster after the i3 skylake is released.
> 
> I used a phenom ii for the longest time when the core 2 quad was vastly overpriced so I am a secret AMD fan that is trying to figure out if this processor was just a Fx with no level 3 but it seems to be on par with nehalem in many regards.


different core, better performance per clock than FX. It's been shown in this thread at 4.5GHz it can keep up with a locked sandy i5.

couldnt be happier with mine, especially for the price.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> different core, better performance per clock than FX. It's been shown in this thread at 4.5GHz it can keep up with a locked sandy i5.
> 
> couldnt be happier with mine, especially for the price.


Is the 7850k a steamroller because I had a client complain about windows 7 gaming performance on a Bolton fm2 plus board. Ran great on windows 8. The apu win7 driver issues just spooked me as I like the amd apu's in theory just seems the platform doesn't play nice on win7 as much as 8 which a lot of clients disliked.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> Is the 7850k a steamroller


it is


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> It really doesn't matter too much, an R7 265 doesn't put out enough heat to bother much of anything. If you're really curious, cut yourself a strip of paper and move it around in the case and see where the airflow is, you'll be surprised at what you find I think.


Cables at the SSDs/HDDs look kinda messy but they are pretty much at the back and they come from behind, working with cables and this case is messy x.x Anyway there's enough space for the air. The CPU +12V cable couldnt go from behind, tho I'm planning on using some zip tie and re-route it



Edit: tried to follow the airflow from the bottom and it pretty much dies in between the GPU and SDDs/HDDs, there's nothing going up.

Also got some new stuff today. Will have some fun next weekend


----------



## Scorpion49

Looks like you have basically no intake air moving through the CPU heatsink in that case, just ambient hot case air. I would try and fit a fan like you had in that pic in the top 5 1/4 bays or worst case the forward top fan mount which is less ideal.


----------



## miklkit

Agreed. I did both and they make a big difference. Here is my case airflow. Note the pci slot covers are removed.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> Is the 7850k a steamroller because I had a client complain about windows 7 gaming performance on a Bolton fm2 plus board. Ran great on windows 8. The apu win7 driver issues just spooked me as I like the amd apu's in theory just seems the platform doesn't play nice on win7 as much as 8 which a lot of clients disliked.


Depends on what games they're running. Recommend them i3's if they plan on doing older games, MMO's, etc. Games that use two cores and IPC reliant games are great on i3's but otherwise the Athlon is in i5 league, especially so if it's OC'ed.


----------



## Dromihetes

Have you ever used a 860K *coffeerox* ?! Or you work for some Intel partner that has to many i3 s in stock ?!This thread is not a versus thread.If you dont own a 860K move along.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Looks like you have basically no intake air moving through the CPU heatsink in that case, just ambient hot case air. I would try and fit a fan like you had in that pic in the top 5 1/4 bays or worst case the forward top fan mount which is less ideal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Agreed. I did both and they make a big difference. Here is my case airflow. Note the pci slot covers are removed.


Thank you very much guys, I will try this weekend and update about how I did


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Have you ever used a 860K *coffeerox* ?! Or you work for some Intel partner that has to many i3 s in stock ?!This thread is not a versus thread.If you dont own a 860K move along.


I agree. Nobody wants to hear about Intel alternatives in this thread.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> Have you ever used a 860K *coffeerox* ?! Or you work for some Intel partner that has to many i3 s in stock ?!This thread is not a versus thread.If you dont own a 860K move along.


Hey guys, this guy actually questioned my ownership of the 860K just because I recommended an i3 LMAO! What a joke! The real person you should be targeting is dlee7283 for invading our thread asking why people use this CPU (what kind of stupid question is that?)

Besides, I was giving him good advice for his shop b/c apparently customers are being unhappy with being given AMD systems and AMD systems not performing up to par. I have extensive knowledge into these CPU's concerning gaming and I gave him legitimate advice on how to better suit customers needs depending on what the customer demands.

You're further escalating this by targeting me, an 860K owner who has been actively posting for the past couple weeks while I've never seen you before. I *SUGGEST* you back down before this escalates any further.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I agree. Nobody wants to hear about Intel alternatives in this thread.


I kindly ask you to stop.

edit:

if anyone has any question of whether I own an 860K or not, here it is


----------



## coffeerox

My previous post showing my CPU-Z and Overdrive.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I was thinking about it and I had LLC set to Auto this whole time for all the OC runs up to 4.1. I enabled LLC to medium for 4.2 and 4.3 at 20%. I know that LLC takes a chunk out of margin just by having it at on. My method for increasing settings is to be as conservative as possible but the LLC setting did not fall in line w/ that. I ran a test at 0% LLC (Regular) and 4.2 ran stable for 5min and it ran cooler than before at 41c. Voltage under load is lower too.
> 
> Multi: 42x
> Volt: 1.39 (Manual)
> LLC: 0% (Regular/Disabled)
> CPU current 130/120 (I stayed away from red numbers)
> Phase: Optimized, T.Probe
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna push for 4.3 and see how low I can keep everything.
> 
> edit:
> bleh. All roads lead to the same setting at 4.3. I could probably hit 4.4 with a water cooler and more voltage but the cost isn't worth it to me.


----------



## Offender_Mullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> if anyone has any question of whether I own an 860K or not, here it is


The cable management gods are upset with you.


----------



## juanitox

Installed my new G.Skill memory kit today and got it running at 2400 10-12-12-31 with the XMP profile. This far I haven't had any problems









Will test more stuff on weekend.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offender_Mullet*
> 
> The cable management gods are upset with you.


I cleaned it up last time I was in there to install my SSD







Love those 13 second boot times


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Hey guys, this guy actually questioned my ownership of the 860K just because I recommended an i3 LMAO! What a joke! The real person you should be targeting is dlee7283 for invading our thread asking why people use this CPU (what kind of stupid question is that?)
> 
> Besides, I was giving him good advice for his shop b/c apparently customers are being unhappy with being given AMD systems and AMD systems not performing up to par. I have extensive knowledge into these CPU's concerning gaming and I gave him legitimate advice on how to better suit customers needs depending on what the customer demands.
> 
> You're further escalating this by targeting me, an 860K owner who has been actively posting for the past couple weeks while I've never seen you before. I *SUGGEST* you back down before this escalates any further.


In this reply you looked again like some Intel partner promoting i3-s.If you work in some shop or something it s ok i understand you.

And i ll stop here i wont give you any more "food".
The 860K is simply a great CPU for the money.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> In this reply you looked again like some Intel partner promoting i3-s.If you work in some shop or something it s ok i understand you.
> 
> And i ll stop here i wont give you any more "food".
> The 860K is simply a great CPU for the money.


I have to step up for cofferox on this one. He has never said anything negative about the 860K and has been active in this thread as long as I've been here at least. He's also right about the dlee7283 dude. That's exactly why I responded the way I did when he asked why the CPU was so popular. He was being sarcastic. When I first joined he flashed some flames and got shot down by Damric. Ppl need to just ignore him from now on.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have to step up for cofferox on this one. He has never said anything negative about the 860K and has been active in this thread as long as I've been here at least. He's also right about the dlee7283 dude. That's exactly why I responded the way I did when he asked why the CPU was so popular. He was being sarcastic. When I first joined he flashed some flames and got shot down by Damric. Ppl need to just ignore him from now on.


Thank you!

I still don't know how I look like some Intel partner promoting i3's. It's simply the facts of gaming. Older games and MMO's use less cores and MMO's make heavier use out of IPC leading to i3's having the performance edge in those scenarios. It's not exactly new information. I was simply being impartial. I provide a lot of builds for people online and always build around what they want vs what I think they should have. You wouldn't believe how many people convince others of spending ungodly amounts of money far beyond what they ask for or what they needed.


----------



## Jack13

to both Tone1492 and Coffeerox


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I kindly ask you to stop.
> 
> edit:
> 
> if anyone has any question of whether I own an 860K or not, here it is


I never said anyone didn't own a 860K. This thread just doesn't need any Intel comparisons. They serve no purpose and are off topic.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I never said anyone didn't own a 860K. This thread just doesn't need any Intel comparisons. They serve no purpose and are off topic.


BLOCKED


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I never said anyone didn't own a 860K. This thread just doesn't need any Intel comparisons. They serve no purpose and are off topic.


I disagree. If somebody is reading through this thread (all 180 pages so far) researching before they make a purchase decision, then a comparison to a similar processor is on topic and serves a great purpose.Now if somebody wants to compare a top tier i7 to an 860K, that would be stretching it. Or if this thread was titled "Official 860K Fan Club". But an i3 or i5 comparison is justifiable. Someone may choose to pay more for a little better performance while some may choose to take a slight performance hit to be able to spend more on other components. This thread has provided that information.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I disagree. If somebody is reading through this thread (all 180 pages so far) researching before they make a purchase decision, then a comparison to a similar processor is on topic and serves a great purpose.Now if somebody wants to compare a top tier i7 to an 860K, that would be stretching it. Or if this thread was titled "Official 860K Fan Club". But an i3 or i5 comparison is justifiable. Someone may choose to pay more for a little better performance while some may choose to take a slight performance hit to be able to spend more on other components. This thread has provided that information.


You haven't been here or seen these threads spiral out of control when these comparisons are made. The title of the thread makes no mention of Intel nor asks for any AMD/Intel comparisons.


----------



## Jack13

You are making a great assumption that I "haven't been here". I may not have registered and started posting until recently, but I have been reading and learning from many threads on this site for a long, long time.
None of what you are objecting to will cause this thread to spin out of control. In fact, I deem this as one of the least flamed threads currently active. If you don't like the direction it is headed, that's your right. It's also within your rights to unsubscribe to this thread. I've found the information to be very helpful and I've tried to contribute what little I can.
I have also gained knowledge from information you have shared, so thank you.


----------



## tone1492

Ok let's all just agree to keep this thread on topic with the 860K. That way there is no more confusion. If that dell dude or whatever his name is comes back just ignore him. Not a lot of ppl caught on to what he was trying to do but as I said when I first joined he tried to turn this into the Pentium G3258/ Intel show.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have to step up for cofferox on this one. He has never said anything negative about the 860K and has been active in this thread as long as I've been here at least. He's also right about the dlee7283 dude. That's exactly why I responded the way I did when he asked why the CPU was so popular. He was being sarcastic. When I first joined he flashed some flames and got shot down by Damric. Ppl need to just ignore him from now on.


Who exactly got shut down by damric?

Also I have used AMD many times in the past and I use a radeon card.

Linustechtips proved recently that the g3258 even at 4.5 underperformed in a lot of modern games so it was overhyped .

It's also true that the 860k performs similar to an overclocked x6 from 2011 so I didn't understand the compelling reason to make it a primary gaming platform in 2015. Single performance was like 10 percent better but within a 4 year period shouldn't it be?

Really an 8310 makes more sense. Especially when it was 80 usd after rebate on tigerdirect.

On the Intel side the 1150 i5 is still overpriced. Especially broadwell which Intel screwed g3258 owners on z97 on a overpriced i5 when it finally came out. In the end you saved no money at all waiting for Broadwell when you could have been fragging on Haswell i5's for more than year.

My true opinion of Intel is that they are unhumble sheisters who produce a good product but aren't concerned with their consumers loyalty to their company and only get by because they have 2/3's more money than AMD. We are forced to use them because your an oxymoron if you chose not to use a superior platform all because you favor one corporation over the other.

My true opinion of AMD is that it was too lazy to get a proper AM3+ chipset with their flagship 8 series, with the 990 chipset really being a slightly better version of 790 from 2010. I'd probably be running a 9350 FX right now if the AM3+ chipsets weren't so outdated and forced Intel to lower the price on the i5. The FM2+ just feels like I am on Phenom II all over again with the exception of USB 3.0 and PCIE 3.0 which was already late to the party on AMD's side in the PC world. Just because something is marketed as new and put in a cute box by AMD doesn't mean its not basically something you could have bought years and years ago from them at probably 100 bucks more...

If you really want ultimate value like the i7 920 offered you gotta spend money in the beginning which is why I am seriously thinking about getting a 5820k and laugh when it's still viable 4 years from now for gaming.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I disagree. If somebody is reading through this thread (all 180 pages so far) researching before they make a purchase decision, then a comparison to a similar processor is on topic and serves a great purpose.Now if somebody wants to compare a top tier i7 to an 860K, that would be stretching it. Or if this thread was titled "Official 860K Fan Club". But an i3 or i5 comparison is justifiable. Someone may choose to pay more for a little better performance while some may choose to take a slight performance hit to be able to spend more on other components. This thread has provided that information.


No I agree with Chrisjames, this isn't the place. This is a great resource for people researching a purchase. If they want a comparison they can make a thread. It's really tiresome seeing these "debates" frequently erupt in threads like this.


----------



## syl1979

I think also that we must be true on the 860k. It's a very good processor for the money, it's fun to overclock, but we have to recognize that there are alternatives with the competitor and also with AM3 platform. Each has his own strength.

For me here was never a fan club. The question mark calls for objectives advices. And as this is overclock.net a lot of feedback and help for overclocking.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> I'm curious how well this CPU is being perceived and if anyone has any review on it currently. I know it was said to perform roughly the same as the a10-7850k.


Just to help people to remember


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> No I agree with Chrisjames, this isn't the place. This is a great resource for people researching a purchase. If they want a comparison they can make a thread. It's really tiresome seeing these "debates" frequently erupt in threads like this.


It wasn't a comparison in the first place. One person got butthurt because Intel was brought up and even explaining my reasoning with my comment towards dlee wasn't enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I think also that we must be true on the 860k. It's a very good processor for the money, it's fun to overclock, but we have to recognize that there are alternatives with the competitor and also with AM3 platform. Each has his own strength.


Yeah, that's why I'm being impartial and pointing out the strengths and weaknesses with the 860K. It's a great processor for the money and it definitely stacks up against Intel but you have to be mindful of what the CPU's weaknesses are, especially when recommending the CPU to other people. This becomes much more important when you're looking to play certain games and both CPU's are not 100% perfect at one or the other.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have to step up for cofferox on this one. He has never said anything negative about the 860K and has been active in this thread as long as I've been here at least. He's also right about the dlee7283 dude. That's exactly why I responded the way I did when he asked why the CPU was so popular. He was being sarcastic. When I first joined he flashed some flames and got shot down by Damric. Ppl need to just ignore him from now on.


1) I am a butthole.

2) I have no problem with comparing the 860K to Intel stuff. I also own a Haswell Pentium and i3. They shine all shine at some things, and other things not so much.


----------



## Scorpion49

Anyone heard anything about an 870K yet?


----------



## jsc1973

There's nothing wrong with pointing someone in the direction of Intel if they visit this thread asking about the 860K and how it compares to Intel CPU's. If they just want to play MMO's and single-threaded stuff as cheaply as possible, they should probably get a G3258 anyway. The 860K is the most inexpensive route to an all-around capable computer, as opposed to a dirt-cheap dedicated gaming rig.

If someone just pops on here to tell people they shouldn't buy AMD processors and should buy Intel instead, they don't need to be here.

The former is a legitimate use of the thread--to acquire knowledge from people who have actual experience with the 860K. The latter is trolling.

Just my .02...


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Anyone heard anything about an 870K yet?


I wanna know that too


----------



## ShrimpBrime

870K is running late maybe. Says here Q2 2015, but not released yet.

3.9ghz @ 95w - typical small increase in clock speed ect.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Athlon%20X4%20870K.html


----------



## drmrlordx

I'll bet it would be a great step up from the 860k, which is probably why they're lagging on its release (to clear inventories). It'll probably be soldered like the 7870k.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I'll bet it would be a great step up from the 860k, which is probably why they're lagging on its release (to clear inventories). It'll probably be soldered like the 7870k.


What kind of IPC increase would be worth upgrading from a bad silicone 860K? Honestly if those samples consistently hit Richland OC numbers I would jump on one.


----------



## chuy409

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> What kind of IPC increase would be worth upgrading from a bad silicone 860K? Honestly if those samples consistently hit Richland OC numbers I would jump on one.


Its not necessarily that amd ipc is trash, its that games or application that doesnt use amd cores to 100%. Its been showed that games that do allow AMD cores to go up to 100% like bf4, witcher, gta etc... they use amd cores really good and their performance shows that. Also rendering with handbrake, their performance is really good. What i have noticed is when things get intense, like multiplayer or open world game etc, amd core usage drops for some reason thus lowering gpu usage thus lowering fps despite the cores can handle the load. It seems like when "alot of things is happening" in for example, open world games or civilization 5 with a bunch of troops in the field, somehow, the amd cpu gets a "limited" amounts of "calls" or whatever so the other "calls" are waiting in "line" to get processed. Only reason why I think intel performs better in games is that devs make intel cores use up to 100% while thats not true for amd cores. We just need devs to peg the usage on amd cores.

Also, i dont see amd cpus as bottlenecks ONLY if cpu usage is 100% on all cores. If cpu usage isnt 100% and gpu usage also isnt close to 100%, then its probably something is up with the game.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuy409*
> 
> Its not necessarily that amd ipc is trash, its that games or application that doesnt use amd cores to 100%. Its been showed that games that do allow AMD cores to go up to 100% like bf4, witcher, gta etc... they use amd cores really good and their performance shows that. Also rendering with handbrake, their performance is really good. What i have noticed is when things get intense, like multiplayer or open world game etc, amd core usage drops for some reason thus lowering gpu usage thus lowering fps despite the cores can handle the load. It seems like when "alot of things is happening" in for example, open world games or civilization 5 with a bunch of troops in the field, somehow, the amd cpu gets a "limited" amounts of "calls" or whatever so the other "calls" are waiting in "line" to get processed. Only reason why I think intel performs better in games is that devs make intel cores use up to 100% while thats not true for amd cores. We just need devs to peg the usage on amd cores.
> 
> Also, i dont see amd cpus as bottlenecks ONLY if cpu usage is 100% on all cores. If cpu usage isnt 100% and gpu usage also isnt close to 100%, then its probably something is up with the game.


I agree. I get great performance in most of my games, especially games that are GPU bound (as games should be) like Witcher 3, Metro 2033, Metro LL. My FPS is very steady and my GPU usage stays above 95 percent. Games like Rome II and Borderlands 2 I can get really high frame rates, but then all of a sudden my GPU usage drops to some insane number and my fps goes along with it. Sometimes downsampling from 1440p or 4K helps keep the game more GPU bound in CPU intensive games, thus keeping the fps more consistent, but at the cost of higher top end frame rates. Hopefully DX12 can fix a lot of these issues and end the trend of "CPU intensive" games.


----------



## selmand

hi can you give me suggestion budget mb for amd 860k. arround 50$.

i dont want to cpu drops :-(


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selmand*
> 
> hi can you give me suggestion budget mb for amd 860k. arround 50$.
> 
> i dont want to cpu drops :-(


http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaf2a88xmd3h


----------



## selmand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaf2a88xmd3h


thank you very much , can you give a few options.

this mb too expensive in türkiye.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selmand*
> 
> thank you very much , can you give a few options.
> 
> this mb too expensive in türkiye.


cheapest one I can find
http://www.teknobiyotik.com/msi-990fxa-gd65-am3-amd-990fx-sb950-ddr3-2133mhz-o-c-anakart-16119.html#!prettyPhoto


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selmand*
> 
> thank you very much , can you give a few options.
> 
> this mb too expensive in türkiye.


I honestly can't recommend a cheaper, lower quality board for the 860K. 50 to 60 USD up to 150 USD is what we all paid for our motherboards.

I also recommend buying one on the A88X chipset, but that's just me.


----------



## Rabit

X4 860k @ 4.4Ghz on Asus A88XM-A 4.5 working also but requires a lot more power and I do not want push VRMs to much








You do not need expensive mobo for this CPU


----------



## selmand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> cheapest one I can find
> http://www.teknobiyotik.com/msi-990fxa-gd65-am3-amd-990fx-sb950-ddr3-2133mhz-o-c-anakart-16119.html#!prettyPhoto


is this good for oc 860k


----------



## sherlockmeisida

Hello guys i need your help , i am planing to buy msi a68hm grenade , and i have hyper 212 evo .I want to increase my speed to 4.3 or 4.4 ghz , can mobo handle it ?


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlockmeisida*
> 
> Hello guys i need your help , i am planing to buy msi a68hm grenade , and i have hyper 212 evo .I want to increase my speed to 4.3 or 4.4 ghz , can mobo handle it ?


I steer people away from MSI generally. Some people have good luck. Since I had a few and RMA'ed a few.... I don't buy MSI any more.

I'd go with this one if your going to buy cheap. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132406&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-AMD+Motherboards-_-N82E16813132406&gclid=CLCR-4Hh4McCFVGAaQodYAAGOA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Should do the trick


----------



## sherlockmeisida

Thank you for your advice , then i should check asus mobos







i saw a88xm-a is that ok for 4.4 ghz oc ? asus a68hm plus doesn't exist in my country :/


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlockmeisida*
> 
> Hello guys i need your help , i am planing to buy msi a68hm grenade , and i have hyper 212 evo .I want to increase my speed to 4.3 or 4.4 ghz , can mobo handle it ?


"Grenade". What a fitting name for motherboards that have a reputation for exploding or bursting into flames.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlockmeisida*
> 
> Thank you for your advice , then i should check asus mobos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i saw a88xm-a is that ok for 4.4 ghz oc ? asus a68hm plus doesn't exist in my country :/


This one?? https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/A88XMA/

I think it'll do just fine. But also remember that better than stock cooling will get you a better overclock also.

Most boards from Asus are really stout. My F1A75-V pro is still kicking today with A8-3850 (de-lidded) at 3.6ghz OC. It benches about the same as FX-4300 at 4ghz - (I would know I bench tested both against each other.) I purchased that board more than 3 years ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> "Grenade". What a fitting name for motherboards that have a reputation for exploding or bursting into flames.


Truth ^^


----------



## sherlockmeisida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> This one?? https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/A88XMA/
> 
> I think it'll do just fine. But also remember that better than stock cooling will get you a better overclock also.
> 
> Most boards from Asus are really stout. My F1A75-V pro is still kicking today with A8-3850 (de-lidded) at 3.6ghz OC. It benches about the same as FX-4300 at 4ghz - (I would know I bench tested both against each other.) I purchased that board more than 3 years ago.
> Truth ^^


yeah this one







I have hyper 212 evo .I guess it is enough to 4.4 ,4.5 ghz with this asus mobo right ?


----------



## selmand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlockmeisida*
> 
> yeah this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have hyper 212 evo .I guess it is enough to 4.4 ,4.5 ghz with this asus mobo right ?


is this good, ASUS A68HM-K


----------



## Jack13

If you are looking to overclock, my suggestion would be to hold off and save up some money to buy a board more suitable for that rather than just the cheapest available. You'll probably be happier in the long run.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlockmeisida*
> 
> Thank you for your advice , then i should check asus mobos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i saw a88xm-a is that ok for 4.4 ghz oc ? asus a68hm plus doesn't exist in my country :/


My VRM section looks that 
and have fan on it


----------



## sherlockmeisida

Oh i saw your fan then it's getting so hot without fan :/ guys do you have any suggestions ? maybe Asus A88x-gamer


----------



## Rabit

A88X-PLUS also have have decent VRM


----------



## tone1492

Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER
Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4
Asus A88X-PRO

Everything else is a downgrade so good luck, especially if you get a leaky CPU.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> A88X-PLUS also have have decent VRM


True the Plus is a good choice.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER
> 
> Everything else is a downgrade so good luck, especially if you get a leaky CPU.


Depeds how much OC he want get on both Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER and Asusu A88XM-A my CPU reach max 4.5Ghz only on A88XM-A I needed bum more V becasue higher drops.
And My mobo VRM even without fan on it work great but I always plays save with OC * better have more cooling than be sorry later


----------



## sherlockmeisida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Depeds how much OC he want get on both Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER and Asusu A88XM-A my CPU reach max 4.5Ghz only on A88XM-A I needed bum more V becasue higher drops.
> And My mobo VRM even without fan on it work great but I always plays save with OC * better have more cooling than be sorry later


then a88xm-a good choice to me , and i will get aluminium small heatsink like you .


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER
> Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4
> Asus A88X-PRO
> 
> Everything else is a downgrade so good luck, especially if you get a leaky CPU.


I have all of those three boards. The UP4 really surprised me as an overclocking board.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I have all of those three boards. The UP4 really surprised me as an overclocking board.


Yeah the BIOS is not as advanced as ASUS or MSI, but I like it. I know everyone gets tired of me saying how bad I lost the lottery, but that UP4 is the only reason I can even think of sitting stable at 4.3 or 4.4. If I had a cheap board I would have been in bad shape. Guys spend the extra 30-40 bucks if you are overclocking.


----------



## juanitox

So I was working a bit on my computer last weekend. First I noticed I was running with an offset of 1.47V instead of 1.36V, thanks to D.O.C.P. because I installed my memory kits in a rush and just set the profile. I loaded defaults and input the frecuency and timings manually and it booted @2400 without any problems, didn't run tests tho because again I lack of time.

Also installed a CM JetFlo to my Hyper 212 EVO, that thing really pushes air. The stock fan is in pull now. I installed a new intake at the top-front of my case, I feel like the airflow is right. Tightened my cooler a bit better, tho I think it was already alright, applied MX-4.

After working carefully with my machine I'm disappointed, I was expecting better temps, I'm still idling at 42 - 43°C, with the CPU running at 4GHz with an offset of 0.025V, the core voltage wasn't touching the 1.4V mark. It downclocks to 3.5GHz at times with the cool and quiet. Didn't run full load tests yet, hopefully I will do it today.

I don't know what to blame or what to expect. it didn't seem to be that hot in my room, I improved the airflow in my case, the cooler is alright. I'm about to order an AIO liquid cooler, tho I don't want to spend more money I need for other things lol


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> So I was working a bit on my computer last weekend. First I noticed I was running with an offset of 1.47V instead of 1.36V, thanks to D.O.C.P. because I installed my memory kits in a rush and just set the profile. I loaded defaults and input the frecuency and timings manually and it booted @2400 without any problems, didn't run tests tho because again I lack of time.
> 
> Also installed a CM JetFlo to my Hyper 212 EVO, that thing really pushes air. The stock fan is in pull now. I installed a new intake at the top-front of my case, I feel like the airflow is right. Tightened my cooler a bit better, tho I think it was already alright, applied MX-4.
> 
> After working carefully with my machine I'm disappointed, I was expecting better temps, I'm still idling at 42 - 43°C, with the CPU running at 4GHz with an offset of 0.025V, the core voltage wasn't touching the 1.4V mark. It downclocks to 3.5GHz at times with the cool and quiet. Didn't run full load tests yet, hopefully I will do it today.
> 
> I don't know what to blame or what to expect. it didn't seem to be that hot in my room, I improved the airflow in my case, the cooler is alright. I'm about to order an AIO liquid cooler, tho I don't want to spend more money I need for other things lol


Did you try stress testing it with Prime95 and running AMD Overdrive and monitoring your Thermal Margin?


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Did you try stress testing it with Prime95 and running AMD Overdrive and monitoring your Thermal Margin?


Will do that tonight, yesterday was rushing to get my PC together because I had some uni stuff to get done D: just got high idle temps. Gonna report my load temps later.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> So I was working a bit on my computer last weekend. First I noticed I was running with an offset of 1.47V instead of 1.36V, thanks to D.O.C.P. because I installed my memory kits in a rush and just set the profile. I loaded defaults and input the frecuency and timings manually and it booted @2400 without any problems, didn't run tests tho because again I lack of time.
> 
> Also installed a CM JetFlo to my Hyper 212 EVO, that thing really pushes air. The stock fan is in pull now. I installed a new intake at the top-front of my case, I feel like the airflow is right. Tightened my cooler a bit better, tho I think it was already alright, applied MX-4.
> 
> After working carefully with my machine I'm disappointed, I was expecting better temps, I'm still idling at 42 - 43°C, with the CPU running at 4GHz with an offset of 0.025V, the core voltage wasn't touching the 1.4V mark. It downclocks to 3.5GHz at times with the cool and quiet. Didn't run full load tests yet, hopefully I will do it today.
> 
> I don't know what to blame or what to expect. it didn't seem to be that hot in my room, I improved the airflow in my case, the cooler is alright. I'm about to order an AIO liquid cooler, tho I don't want to spend more money I need for other things lol


Before you change anything else, I would recommend the following: downclock your CPU to its base multiplier, disable turbo, and then undervolt that puppy to maybe 1.1v or lower if you think you can get away with it. Whatever's stable.

Then see what are the idle temperatures.

On my rig, ambient case temps are regularly reported at 24-26C, with 24 being the more-common temp. In those circumstances, the CPU idles right at ambient when it's undervolted running @ 3.4 GHz with 1.075v vcore. When it idles @ 4.7 GHz with 1.525 vcore or whatever the hell it is (I forget) it idles at around 29C most of the time. 4.5 GHz with 1.425v vcore idles at around 28C

My point is, let's take the CPU heat out of the equation with a big undervolt. Then see where your idle temps sit. That will tell you a lot about the ambient conditions affecting your case temps and (most importantly) the inlet air temperature for your heatsink.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

^^ FX-8300 and FX-8310 run 1.1v at 3.3ghz and 3.4ghz stock. It's a good starting point.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Before you change anything else, I would recommend the following: downclock your CPU to its base multiplier, disable turbo, and then undervolt that puppy to maybe 1.1v or lower if you think you can get away with it. Whatever's stable.
> 
> Then see what are the idle temperatures.
> 
> On my rig, ambient case temps are regularly reported at 24-26C, with 24 being the more-common temp. In those circumstances, the CPU idles right at ambient when it's undervolted running @ 3.4 GHz with 1.075v vcore. When it idles @ 4.7 GHz with 1.525 vcore or whatever the hell it is (I forget) it idles at around 29C most of the time. 4.5 GHz with 1.425v vcore idles at around 28C
> 
> My point is, let's take the CPU heat out of the equation with a big undervolt. Then see where your idle temps sit. That will tell you a lot about the ambient conditions affecting your case temps and (most importantly) the inlet air temperature for your heatsink.


Thanks! Gonna try that as well. I have even considered my Hyper 212 EVO is defective. We will see the outcome of this.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks! Gonna try that as well. I have even considered my Hyper 212 EVO is defective. We will see the outcome of this.


I've never had a H212, but from what I see, it's a decent cooler for the price.

Again, you gotta consider your just air cooling. It's a different ball game extracting heat from a processor and moving that heat outside the case via water to the rads. It helps lower overall case temps, something you may want to consider. You;ll get closer to that 5ghz club that way


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Before you change anything else, I would recommend the following: downclock your CPU to its base multiplier, disable turbo, and then undervolt that puppy to maybe 1.1v or lower if you think you can get away with it. Whatever's stable.
> 
> Then see what are the idle temperatures.
> 
> On my rig, ambient case temps are regularly reported at 24-26C, with 24 being the more-common temp. In those circumstances, the CPU idles right at ambient when it's undervolted running @ 3.4 GHz with 1.075v vcore. When it idles @ 4.7 GHz with 1.525 vcore or whatever the hell it is (I forget) it idles at around 29C most of the time. 4.5 GHz with 1.425v vcore idles at around 28C
> 
> My point is, let's take the CPU heat out of the equation with a big undervolt. Then see where your idle temps sit. That will tell you a lot about the ambient conditions affecting your case temps and (most importantly) the inlet air temperature for your heatsink.


On my 860K voltages in the range of 1v-1.025v are quite unstable when jumping to them from a higher voltage, although they are perfectly stable in games/stress tests. The minimal voltage that is stable in every situation for me is 1.05v, and at that value I can keep a maximum frequency of 3.4GHz. Enough cool for idle/internet usage and enough powerful for most games









For most demanding games I just up it manually to [email protected] Starting from 1.2625v I get throttling due to getting close to the thermal limit, please note my cooler is a Ninja Mini (passive) with only two case 80mm fans blowing hot air out of a Thermaltake Core V1.

Hope this information helps


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> So I was working a bit on my computer last weekend. First I noticed I was running with an offset of 1.47V instead of 1.36V, thanks to D.O.C.P. because I installed my memory kits in a rush and just set the profile. I loaded defaults and input the frecuency and timings manually and it booted @2400 without any problems, didn't run tests tho because again I lack of time.
> 
> Also installed a CM JetFlo to my Hyper 212 EVO, that thing really pushes air. The stock fan is in pull now. I installed a new intake at the top-front of my case, I feel like the airflow is right. Tightened my cooler a bit better, tho I think it was already alright, applied MX-4.
> 
> After working carefully with my machine I'm disappointed, I was expecting better temps, I'm still idling at 42 - 43°C, with the CPU running at 4GHz with an offset of 0.025V, the core voltage wasn't touching the 1.4V mark. It downclocks to 3.5GHz at times with the cool and quiet. Didn't run full load tests yet, hopefully I will do it today.
> 
> I don't know what to blame or what to expect. it didn't seem to be that hot in my room, I improved the airflow in my case, the cooler is alright. I'm about to order an AIO liquid cooler, tho I don't want to spend more money I need for other things lol


Really hoping you get things together with those temps. Also try stabilizing your CPU temps and OC before you overclock your RAM. Just leave it at whatever the motherboard defaults it too and work on that last. Might not seem like much but it could help.


----------



## 1216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> On my 860K voltages in the range of 1v-1.025v are quite unstable when jumping to them from a higher voltage, although they are perfectly stable in games/stress tests. The minimal voltage that is stable in every situation for me is 1.05v, and at that value I can keep a maximum frequency of 3.4GHz. Enough cool for idle/internet usage and enough powerful for most games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For most demanding games I just up it manually to [email protected] Starting from 1.2625v I get throttling due to getting close to the thermal limit, please note my cooler is a Ninja Mini (passive) with only two case 80mm fans blowing hot air out of a Thermaltake Core V1.
> 
> Hope this information helps


Get a fan on the heatsink, watch your temps drop.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1216*
> 
> Get a fan on the heatsink, watch your temps drop.


Obviously, but being a mini itx case I prefer to keep maximum silence and again, the exhaust fans are really really close to the cooler, they just suck air out of it, and in front of a case I have a huge 200mm fan blowing cool air inside the case.








The limit of these CPU is about 4.3-4.4 ghz anyways, starting from 4.1GHz mine needs an increasingly higher amount of voltage compared to the standard 0.025v-100MHz steps for lower frequencies.

3.4GHz - 1.050v
3.5GHz - 1.075v
...
4GHz - 1.1375v (sweet point, from here onwards the voltage steps are larger and larger)
4.1GHz - 1.2625v
4.2GHz - 1.325v - Throttling


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys, I got a question, couldn't mess around with my computer a lot yesterday, uni stuff ._. But how to undervolt with the ASUS BIOS? I couldn't find a way to do set a voltage manually to start around 3.4GHz. It would only show me the offset option, I want to set a negative (-) offset of 0.2875V, since my reference is 1.362V so I would get around 1.075V, but didn't try since I wasn't sure and the numbers weren't white anymore, they were in red lol So I quit.

Also which states should I disable to perform the idle test?

Thanks for help!


----------



## Stray_Bullet

880K to follow 870K????

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-athlon-x4-880k-specs-appear-online.html


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys, I got a question, couldn't mess around with my computer a lot yesterday, uni stuff ._. But how to undervolt with the ASUS BIOS? I couldn't find a way to do set a voltage manually to start around 3.4GHz. It would only show me the offset option, I want to set a negative (-) offset of 0.2875V, since my reference is 1.362V so I would get around 1.075V, but didn't try since I wasn't sure and the numbers weren't white anymore, they were in red lol So I quit.
> 
> Also which states should I disable to perform the idle test?
> 
> Thanks for help!


Do not fear the red numbers on an undervolt; just make sure you disable turbo and CnQ/low power states so that the chip doesn't do crazy stuff and try moving around your clockspeeds and voltages according to its own plan + modifications from your offset.

Basically, you should be running at a solid 3.4 GHz (or whatever base speed you pick; I only picked 3.4 since it's the base clock of my 7700k) in all conditions for the test. You won't get good data if it downclocks to some low-power state, and there's a good chance your offset will crash your machine under those conditions.


----------



## Scorpion49

Welp...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimensive*
> 
> Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/215881/amd-readies-a10-7890k-a8-7690k-and-athlon-x4-880k-socket-fm2-chips.html
> 
> I hope AMD keeps pushing on because we all benefit from competition, but I feel they're going to have to push harder than this, and soon.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Welp...


Everything now on the performance desktop side of things is kind of just a placeholder till ZEN and the new chipset arrive.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Everything now on the performance desktop side of things is kind of just a placeholder till ZEN and the new chipset arrive.


Yeah, I'd still be interested in if this 880K has a soldered lid or not. My guess is no, but it would be cool if it did thanks to the higher base clock.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Everything now on the performance desktop side of things is kind of just a placeholder till ZEN and the new chipset arrive.


Pretty much


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, I'd still be interested in if this 880K has a soldered lid or not. My guess is no, but it would be cool if it did thanks to the higher base clock.


It should be soldered since the A10-7870 is soldered.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> After working carefully with my machine I'm disappointed, I was expecting better temps, I'm still idling at 42 - 43°C


Curious.. did you apply the TIM using the "pea size" method or "spread"? I have installed two Hyper 212's and had experienced bad temperatures on my first install. The cause was actually using the "pea size" method rather than a "spread" due to the "direct contact" design of the heat pipes on the base of the cooler. Most of the TIM was pushed up inbetween the base and the heat pipes leaving minimal coverage on the CPU itself. It's worth a shot to check and reseat. What I did to remedy this problem was to apply the TIM directly on the base of the cooler and "spread" it with my CC. I then took my heat gun, and on low setting, let it flow and fill the gaps leaving a nice thin even layer of TIM. Temperatures were spectacular afterwards.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Curious.. did you apply the TIM using the "pea size" method or "spread"? I have installed two Hyper 212's and had experienced bad temperatures on my first install. The cause was actually using the "pea size" method rather than a "spread" due to the "direct contact" design of the heat pipes on the base of the cooler. Most of the TIM was pushed up inbetween the base and the heat pipes leaving minimal coverage on the CPU itself. It's worth a shot to check and reseat. What I did to remedy this problem was to apply the TIM directly on the base of the cooler and "spread" it with my CC. I then took my heat gun, and on low setting, let it flow and fill the gaps leaving a nice thin even layer of TIM. Temperatures were spectacular afterwards.


I used the pea size method. Prolly I could give it a shot and check my temps afterwards, I don't have a heat gun tho D: Finally this weekend I will have some time to test my system.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I used the pea size method. Prolly I could give it a shot and check my temps afterwards, I don't have a heat gun tho D: Finally this weekend I will have some time to test my system.


If you use a dot in the center with the 212+ EVO, you better put more than a pea size or spread it yourself. I always put double the normal pea size with that cooler in an X or + shape, a combination of the heat pipes having grooves between them and the fact that it really doesn't get very tight with the cheap mounting mechanism means that you need more paste to compensate, especially if you use one that is difficult to spread.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> If you use a dot in the center with the 212+ EVO, you better put more than a pea size or spread it yourself. I always put double the normal pea size with that cooler in an X or + shape, a combination of the heat pipes having grooves between them and the fact that it really doesn't get very tight with the cheap mounting mechanism means that you need more paste to compensate, especially if you use one that is difficult to spread.


Alright, thanks. Then I will try spreading and see how it goes. The Artic MX-4 seems easier to spread than the Thermalfusion 400. I used both with the pea sized method and didn't notice any difference on my temps


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Either method will work (more TIM or spread) Oh and you can always use a hair dryer if you try the spread method, but don't cook it. I opted for the heat gun because Gelid Extreme is quite thick and gummy.


----------



## tone1492

Anyone planning on buying the 880K to play around with? I think I've already convinced myself that I will if it overclocks well. At this point it doesn't seem like the 870K will be released.


----------



## Jack13

I'm thinking about (if it ever actually appears) since it looks like my decision to make between Zen and Intel for my next major upgrade will be delayed at least until early 2017...


----------



## Jack13

juanitox,
I hope I'm wrong, but it's beginning to look like you may have a bum cooler. I've been happy with my Noctua. Before that, I had very good results with an Enermax ETS-T40 (at about half the price of Noctua and just a little more than the 212). I didn't like the fan that came with the Enermax, so I popped on a couple of Enermax 120mm's that I had in a push/pull. Looked pretty good, too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835214041 (out of stock but something similar should work)


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Anyone planning on buying the 880K to play around with? I think I've already convinced myself that I will if it overclocks well. At this point it doesn't seem like the 870K will be released.


If it can hit 4.7+ and actually show gains I'll roll the dice on one.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Anyone planning on buying the 880K to play around with? I think I've already convinced myself that I will if it overclocks well. At this point it doesn't seem like the 870K will be released.


Yes. They're dirt cheap and I have two boards to play with now instead of one (the UD4 is going for RMA as of today).


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> If it can hit 4.7+ and actually show gains I'll roll the dice on one.


Yeah that's what I'm saying. The least clock speed I'm accepting on avg is 4.5 on decent voltage. Too many 860Ks topping out at 4.2 - 4.3
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yes. They're dirt cheap and I have two boards to play with now instead of one (the UD4 is going for RMA as of today).


Sorry about your experience with the UP4. I absolutely love mine.


----------



## burninator

I'm going to pounce on an 880k if it can do better than 4.6 on reasonable voltage. Might be a side grade from a 4.6 760k but I have an itch for something new.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Sorry about your experience with the UP4. I absolutely love mine.


That wasn't even my first rodeo with the UP4, I had this one with a 760K earlier in the year and I had one last year as well. None of them were bug-free. Maybe this one will be the good one when it comes back! I love the look of the board at least, with the deep black PCB and the nice red accents.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Anyone able to get the ASUS AI suite to work in Win10 without problems?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Anyone able to get the ASUS AI suite to work in Win10 without problems?


I couldn't even get AI Suite to work on Windows 8 w/o problems lol


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Anyone able to get the ASUS AI suite to work in Win10 without problems?


Yep! Use it all the time actually. But not the most current version. I used the suite that came on my motherboard disk with a fresh install. Works fine.


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys, AMD overdrive is not working for me, my PC crashes right away, I uninstalled my drivers and overdrive, installed again and crashed, so I give up on that. I'm using AIDA64, what temps should I trust, the CPU temperature or the individual core temps? Thanks


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys, AMD overdrive is not working for me, my PC crashes right away, I uninstalled my drivers and overdrive, installed again and crashed, so I give up on that. I'm using AIDA64, what temps should I trust, the CPU temperature or the individual core temps? Thanks


Did you tell it to load the overclocking profiles?


----------



## Himo5

If a W10 freegrade wasn't off a clean install of the previous O/S there may be issues going on in Task Manager and the registry that conflict with apps that operate underneath Windows. That might even have been an issue with an upgrade to W8 before.

Having done a clean install of W8.1 Pro without installing anything further before freegrading off the ISO while running W8.1 Pro I've had no problems with any OC tools - including Overdrive, Info64, AI Suite III both off the CD and from the latest downloads. In fact, the only problems I've had have been when Windows Update crashes a benchmark.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys, AMD overdrive is not working for me, my PC crashes right away, I uninstalled my drivers and overdrive, installed again and crashed, so I give up on that. I'm using AIDA64, what temps should I trust, the CPU temperature or the individual core temps? Thanks


It's really tough to answer because it's different on everyone's system. I know that one of the temps does match with the thermal margin but that's where the different systems thing come into play. On mine, CPU 0 on HwInfo64 matches thermal margin. It shows a low C reading, for example 17.6, however when I look at thermal margin on AMD Overdrive, it's 52.4. If you add them together, it's 70c which is what it starts at for 1.7ghz.

Here's some of my readings
1.7ghz = 70c (lowest)
1.7ghz = 63c (light usage) 1-10% usage
4.0ghz = 51c (video stream) 20-30% usage

Lower margin you go, the hotter it gets. The critical point is around 10c. If it gets to 0, it will throttle your CPU speed. To calculate the approximate temperature based on thermal margin, you subtract your margin from 100. For example:

1.7ghz = 70c (30c)
1.7ghz = 63c (37c)
4.0ghz = 51c (49c)

First thing I think you should focus on is finding your margin. Take the suspected temp, subtract from 70 (70 - temp) and your answer will be your thermal margin.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Coretemp? Shows actual core temp not offset.

CoreTemp.zip 363k .zip file


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Did you tell it to load the overclocking profiles?


Nope, I left that unchecked.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> It's really tough to answer because it's different on everyone's system. I know that one of the temps does match with the thermal margin but that's where the different systems thing come into play. On mine, CPU 0 on HwInfo64 matches thermal margin. It shows a low C reading, for example 17.6, however when I look at thermal margin on AMD Overdrive, it's 52.4. If you add them together, it's 70c which is what it starts at for 1.7ghz.
> 
> Here's some of my readings
> 1.7ghz = 70c (lowest)
> 1.7ghz = 63c (light usage) 1-10% usage
> 4.0ghz = 51c (video stream) 20-30% usage
> 
> Lower margin you go, the hotter it gets. The critical point is around 10c. If it gets to 0, it will throttle your CPU speed. To calculate the approximate temperature based on thermal margin, you subtract your margin from 100. For example:
> 
> 1.7ghz = 70c (30c)
> 1.7ghz = 63c (37c)
> 4.0ghz = 51c (49c)
> 
> First thing I think you should focus on is finding your margin. Take the suspected temp, subtract from 70 (70 - temp) and your answer will be your thermal margin.


Thanks for the info. I knew part of that but I can't get overdrive working so I don't what my margins are :/ So I'm left with the other software.

So I removed my heatsink and this is how the TIM was, This was with the pea size method.




I think it was alright, or what do you think? Anyway I went ahead and tried the X method, I tried not to put much but it seems some managed to squeeze out, I left it like that x.x because I got pissed. I'm checking my temps and they are the same I had with the pea size method.

Now I will undervolt and see my temps. Will post my results later. I'm kinda giving up on this


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Nope, I left that unchecked.
> Thanks for the info. I knew part of that but I can't get overdrive working so I don't what my margins are :/ So I'm left with the other software.
> 
> So I removed my heatsink and this is how the TIM was, This was with the pea size method.
> 
> I think it was alright, or what do you think? Anyway I went ahead and tried the X method, I tried not to put much but it seems some managed to squeeze out, I left it like that x.x because I got pissed. I'm checking my temps and they are the same I had with the pea size method.
> 
> Now I will undervolt and see my temps. Will post my results later. I'm kinda giving up on this


Try spreading the thermal interface material across the entire IHS plate so you get plenty of contact. Since the entire plate gets hot, may as well have all the thermal compound you can generously apply.

And a Pea size is much larger than a BB size, I always say glob size so there's plenty there. Should see it squeeze out a little bit, not a lot, but a little.

It's one of those things people argue about how to use pastes. I spread the entire thing and set the cooling apparatus down from left to right and give a little twist before clamping. Since my processor is de-lidded, I actually have no choice but to use the spread method, so tiny dots don't apply here.


----------



## coffeerox

Yeah, I used the "pea size" method as well but my pea is more like a ball lol! During my 212 Evo install I had to retry once, so w/ the included thermal paste, I ended up using 1/3 of the tube each try. First attempt it had full coverage when I took it back off.

Anyways, juanitox, why not ditch the air cooler altogether and go for something like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Yeah, I used the "pea size" method as well but my pea is more like a ball lol! During my 212 Evo install I had to retry once, so w/ the included thermal paste, I ended up using 1/3 of the tube each try. First attempt it had full coverage when I took it back off.
> 
> Anyways, juanitox, why not ditch the air cooler altogether and go for something like this?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=


Not a bad little cooler, but a 120.2 would probably dissipate a lot more heat. Depending in expectations of his chip. Some 4.5ghz is nothing to sneeze at.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Yeah, I used the "pea size" method as well but my pea is more like a ball lol! During my 212 Evo install I had to retry once, so w/ the included thermal paste, I ended up using 1/3 of the tube each try. First attempt it had full coverage when I took it back off.
> 
> Anyways, juanitox, why not ditch the air cooler altogether and go for something like this?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=


Paired my Cooler Master Seidon v with some Corsair SP fans and I can run 1.55v and barely hit the teens thermal margain. I run 1.46 everyday and never go over 55 degrees when gaming. That cooler is half the price of the Corsair coolers. Gonna need to buy after market fans for best results anyway.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Paired my Cooler Master Seidon v with some Corsair SP fans and I can run 1.55v and barely hit the teens thermal margain. I run 1.46 everyday and never go over 55 degrees when gaming. That cooler is half the price of the Corsair coolers. Gonna need to buy after market fans for best results anyway.


Yeah I checked out the Seidon quite a while ago. Users didn't review it very well but the Corsair got mostly good reviews which is why I listed that one instead. Temps sound great though. Someday I'll replace the 212 Evo with one of those.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Try spreading the thermal interface material across the entire IHS plate so you get plenty of contact. Since the entire plate gets hot, may as well have all the thermal compound you can generously apply.
> 
> And a Pea size is much larger than a BB size, I always say glob size so there's plenty there. Should see it squeeze out a little bit, not a lot, but a little.
> 
> It's one of those things people argue about how to use pastes. I spread the entire thing and set the cooling apparatus down from left to right and give a little twist before clamping. Since my processor is de-lidded, I actually have no choice but to use the spread method, so tiny dots don't apply here.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Yeah, I used the "pea size" method as well but my pea is more like a ball lol! During my 212 Evo install I had to retry once, so w/ the included thermal paste, I ended up using 1/3 of the tube each try. First attempt it had full coverage when I took it back off.
> 
> Anyways, juanitox, why not ditch the air cooler altogether and go for something like this?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=


I have started to think my CM 212 EVO is broken or I don't know if my sensors are okay. No matter how I apply the TIM, I always get the same temps at idle, around 40 - 42°C. I got my 860k running at 4.2GHz with like a 0.031V offset, the core voltage stays under 1.4V and in the stress tests the CPU goes up to 56°C and stays there, works stable. But even when it works at stock, I get the same temps lol

Yeah I'm totally thinking of getting an AIO x.x but right know I wanted to change my monitor. And it feels just bad because I practically just bought the CM EVO 212 and I can't even return it, so it would be wasted money :/

I really feel that I can push my CPU further, but atm temps are keeping me from it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Paired my Cooler Master Seidon v with some Corsair SP fans and I can run 1.55v and barely hit the teens thermal margain. I run 1.46 everyday and never go over 55 degrees when gaming. That cooler is half the price of the Corsair coolers. Gonna need to buy after market fans for best results anyway.


If I do get one, I think I would pair it with my JetFlos. Prolly I would get the Seidon 120V, because I'm really low on budget. Btw that's a nice looking build


----------



## jsc1973

If you're going to spend money on an AIO, get one of the higher-end versions. The lower-end models won't out-perform a 212 Evo, and they're not any quieter, either (unless you replace the stock fans with something better). They're basically more for looks than anything else. If I were going to go that route, I'd wait until Black Friday and then spring for an H100 or better.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you're going to spend money on an AIO, get one of the higher-end versions. The lower-end models won't out-perform a 212 Evo, and they're not any quieter, either (unless you replace the stock fans with something better). They're basically more for looks than anything else. If I were going to go that route, I'd wait until Black Friday and then spring for an H100 or better.


I think that's right. But prolly I can't fit that in my case, a TT Commander MS-I :/


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> I think that's right. But prolly I can't fit that in my case, a TT Commander MS-I :/


Not enough clearance to fit a long AIO cooler so it would blow out the fan vents on top of the case? I can't tell from the photos on TT's site.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Not enough clearance to fit a long AIO cooler so it would blow out the fan vents on top of the case? I can't tell from the photos on TT's site.


Right, the motherboard is in the way, the motherboard practically tops there. I can't even fit the CPU cable from PSU behind the motherboard because there's no clearance :/

Something I found on the net, someone having troubles with rads and my case :s Prolly I will need a very compact AIO or mod the case.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29369943-Tech-The-H60-doesn-t-fit-now-what


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Question for you guys.. what is the highest voltage you have pumped into this chip for 24/7 use?


----------



## tone1492

1.55v. Back down to 1.46v for daily use. I read here where a guy has been running 1.55v since launch with no issues. With my cooling set up heat is not an issue. Problem is voltage leakage.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Question for you guys.. what is the highest voltage you have pumped into this chip for 24/7 use?


I have run 1.525v vcore over extended periods of time, though it is not my "everyday" setting. The cooling is good enough to keep it well under 50C even loaded in those conditions, so it doesn't scare me much. I just don't need the extra 200 mhz clockspeed that often.

And while my chip is actually a 7700k, it's the same 4 cores that you get in the 860k so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Question for you guys.. what is the highest voltage you have pumped into this chip for 24/7 use?


1.55v for 24/7. Bench it much higher though


----------



## Scorpion49

Well good news I guess, AMD agreed to RMA my 860K even though I broke it. Going to send it off and get a new one back.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well good news I guess, AMD agreed to RMA my 860K even though I broke it. Going to send it off and get a new one back.


What happened to it?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> What happened to it?


Stuck to my heatsink and ripped some pins off when I tried to remove the heatsink.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well good news I guess, AMD agreed to RMA my 860K even though I broke it. Going to send it off and get a new one back.


AMD just won a lot of brownie points from me. That was really cool of them. Did they give you any news about the 880K? Lol.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> AMD just won a lot of brownie points from me. That was really cool of them. Did they give you any news about the 880K? Lol.


No, unfortunately. I went on their chat service and explained what happened and they issued me an RMA right there with no problems. It will be nice to have that little guy back in action.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> 1.55v for 24/7. Bench it much higher though


1.55v set in bios, or under load?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> 1.55v set in bios, or under load?


Looking over some of my past bench submissions it was 1.52v (for 4500MHz) on CPU-Z during the validation just after the benchmarks. Probably something like 1.57v was dialed in BIOS, but that was on exceptionally cold winter days. In order for me to bench that high this summer I needed 1.65v (in CPU-Z). My CPU is extremely sensitive to cold ~


----------



## coffeerox

Sup guys, so I was bored and had some free time. I wrote up a very rough approximation of temperatures based on:

1) Max operating temp (7850K, 72.4c)
2) Idle temp (motherboard bios reading)
3) thermal margin (range is 70 to 0)

Assuming 0 thermal margin is the max operating temp of 72.4 where the CPU throttles and 70 thermal margin where CPU idles at ~38c in bios. In the max/min number, I cut out the decimals, so it's a whole number of 72 and 38.

Thermal margin is on the left, and temperature is on the right.


----------



## Scorpion49

Man, I just tried doing a mild overclock on my 7700K just to see what it would do. What a pancake. 1.58V just to boot Windows at 4.0ghz. This is the single worst overclocking chip I have ever owned, bar none.


----------



## drmrlordx

Is that the chip you got as a replacement for your 860k?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Is that the chip you got as a replacement for your 860k?


No I bought it to test my UP4 and A88X-Pro along with the DDR3 RAM kits last time I was at microcenter after the 860K... had complications. I got it on sale for $69.99 I think it was so it seems like a good deal at the time. iGPU doesn't overclock for crap either, starts hard locking at the next step up from stock which is 800mhz. 7700K is such a turd lol.


----------



## Rebellion88

Does anyone know if there is likely to be any upgrade path from the 860k due out in the near future?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebellion88*
> 
> Does anyone know if there is likely to be any upgrade path from the 860k due out in the near future?


870K and 880K have been announced already.... but should not be a big upgrade for overclockers (same architecture) , except if they use soldered TIM on one of these...

I think more interesting may be DirectX12 and it's ability to use different GPU architectures in parallel. If it works one day it may be interesting to go back to one APU for gaming...
( I hope AMD will make it work at least for AMD APU + AMD GPU).


----------



## coffeerox

I'd be interested in going up to a 880K just so I can hit 4.5 for the i5-4460 equivalency. Then again, Zen is coming out and I don't forsee needing an upgrade once I get the mainstream CPU (4C+4HT).


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I'd be interested in going up to a 880K just so I can hit 4.5 for the i5-4460 equivalency. Then again, Zen is coming out and I don't forsee needing an upgrade once I get the mainstream CPU (4C+4HT).


If the 880k is soldered and consistently hits 4.5-4.6 its an automatic buy for me, just to have something to play around with. As far as Zen goes I've read that its late 2016 for server CPUs and 2017 for the desktop enthusiast stuff, so If that's the case it would mean the Athlon would have served its purpose for me. I just needed it to last me a year, two max.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I'd be interested in going up to a 880K just so I can hit 4.5 for the i5-4460 equivalency. Then again, Zen is coming out and I don't forsee needing an upgrade once I get the mainstream CPU (4C+4HT).


100Mhz isnt enough of a difference to be worth upgrading though, unless you have a bad 860 that cant do 4.4 on reasonable volts

if the 880k couldn't get at least 4.7 I wouldn't go to the trouble.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> If the 880k is soldered and consistently hits 4.5-4.6 its an automatic buy for me, just to have something to play around with. As far as Zen goes I've read that its late 2016 for server CPUs and 2017 for the desktop enthusiast stuff, so If that's the case it would mean the Athlon would have served its purpose for me. I just needed it to last me a year, two max.


Yep. Since Zen is in 2017, it makes it easier for me to swallow a full mobo+cpu replacement
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> 100Mhz isnt enough of a difference to be worth upgrading though, unless you have a bad 870 that cant do 4.4 on reasonable volts
> 
> if the 880k couldn't get at least 4.7 I wouldn't go to the trouble.


I plan on skipping the 870K though. It's too early for me to replace the 860 since I got it in July.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> 100Mhz isnt enough of a difference to be worth upgrading though, unless you have a bad 870 that cant do 4.4 on reasonable volts
> 
> if the 880k couldn't get at least 4.7 I wouldn't go to the trouble.


I need 1.56v just to stay semi stable on 4.4. Need 1.46v to stay stable at 4.2

Also concerning the 870K. Not sure if it will even be released. It's possible we will just get the 880K. That info was leaked by Biostar I believe when they announced some new motherboards.


----------



## syl1979

Asus has just released new bios (at least for a88x/xm plus)

The former one allowed me to overclock the northbridge to 2000 (but the change was quite big as win7 detected all mainboard components as new). Maybe this one solves some of issues others reported.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I need 1.56v just to stay semi stable on 4.4. Need 1.46v to stay stable at 4.2
> 
> Also concerning the 870K. Not sure if it will even be released. It's possible we will just get the 880K. That info was leaked by Biostar I believe when they announced some new motherboards.


I'd say yours is on the atypical side. I remember reading a while back a guy on here managed 4.3 at stock volts. I need 1.43v to stabilize 4.4. I can do 4.2 on stock volts with LLC

I mistyped 870k, meant 860k


----------



## juanitox

Alright guys, I think I kinda gave up on Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, it was freezing in my room last weekend and my idle temps weren't dropping below 40°C, and that's disappointing because I know I can get more from my 860K. I can't get an AIO because I can't really fit it in my case. Do you think going for the Noctua NH-U14S would be worth it?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright guys, I think I kinda gave up on Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, it was freezing in my room last weekend and my idle temps weren't dropping below 40°C, and that's disappointing because I know I can get more from my 860K. I can't get an AIO because I can't really fit it in my case. Do you think going for the Noctua NH-U14S would be worth it?


What are your frequency and voltage at idle ?

To get good idle temp you have to let the CPU go down to 1700Mhz and 0.9v...
in bios : AMD POWER NOW = Enabled
in windows advanced power settings : Minimal processor state = 5%

Ambiant 26degC
Mainboard 34 degC
CPU 37 degC


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Alright guys, I think I kinda gave up on Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, it was freezing in my room last weekend and my idle temps weren't dropping below 40°C, and that's disappointing because I know I can get more from my 860K. I can't get an AIO because I can't really fit it in my case. Do you think going for the Noctua NH-U14S would be worth it?


That's what I'm running. Idles about 6 degrees or so above ambient room temp. At full load with my max overclock it never goes more than 30 above ambient. You won't be dissappointed. I did try it in a push pull configuration and only noticed a difference of about 1 degree under load. It also had some strange harmonics. It just wasn't worth it in my opinion.


----------



## coffeerox

juanitox, your temps might be perfectly fine. The thing about temperature readings on AMD cpu's is that it's fake on every program. The temp sensors don't actually work correctly. The only accurate indicator is thermal margin (except thermal margin still doesn't tell you your temp). Unfortunately your problem is that you don't know what thermal margin is, so what you're seeing might or might not be a safe temp.

Since I can see my thermal margin, I can see that 4.2ghz is completely safe. Using my chart, it holds steady at 60c. 4.3 on the other hand brings it up to 67c which I don't feel comfortable running at 24/7. I think I need a watercooler to get up to 4.4 but I don't think spending all that money for 200Mhz is worth it.

edit:

speaking of temps and stress testing, I know that Prime95, especially the latest versions, runs hotter than a normal 100% load does. So my question is, which stress test represents more accurate temps under 100% load?


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> juanitox, your temps might be perfectly fine. The thing about temperature readings on AMD cpu's is that it's fake on every program. The temp sensors don't actually work correctly. The only accurate indicator is thermal margin (except thermal margin still doesn't tell you your temp). Unfortunately your problem is that you don't know what thermal margin is, so what you're seeing might or might not be a safe temp.


that and idle temps on these are less accurate than loaded temps.

you need to try again to get amd overdrive running


----------



## coffeerox

It's been pretty hot lately so I decided to return to stock settings hoping that it would run cooler. Big mistake. I noticed that the system runs more unstable at stock with frequencies going all over the place (even under load, it can't stay locked at a certain frequency). I also caught the voltage going up to 1.502. For the past week, I've been shutting off the PC simply b/c I wake up to hot room.

Now I'm at a locked 3.7ghz with stock volts (1.3625 in manual mode), turned off PowerNow and it's running super smooth and cool. My benchmark run on MGSV produced an average 47c on Overdrive (60-70% load steady) and Prime95 was 37c (54c on my chart). It even idles near max margin too.


----------



## syl1979

On most motherboards the auto settings are a mess doing overvolting (like +0.05v) and then thermal throttling.... You may think that the motherboard manufacturers are getting nice prices on intel chipset......


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> It's been pretty hot lately so I decided to return to stock settings hoping that it would run cooler. Big mistake. I noticed that the system runs more unstable at stock with frequencies going all over the place (even under load, it can't stay locked at a certain frequency). I also caught the voltage going up to 1.502. For the past week, I've been shutting off the PC simply b/c I wake up to hot room.
> 
> Now I'm at a locked 3.7ghz with stock volts (1.3625 in manual mode), turned off PowerNow and it's running super smooth and cool. My benchmark run on MGSV produced an average 47c on Overdrive (60-70% load steady) and Prime95 was 37c (54c on my chart). It even idles near max margin too.


Even at 3.7GHz that voltage might be too high. I can keep 3.7 with 1.13750v


----------



## tone1492

What kind of cooler are you using? Really surprised about the heat issues some are reporting.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Even at 3.7GHz that voltage might be too high. I can keep 3.7 with 1.13750v


Shall I try to undervolt it? I have a profile that runs 4.0 at -.006 offset which shows up as 1.26 on CPU-Z. Occasionally, I get this weird pause and buzzing sound on videos though which is why I moved away from it. It never BSOD or hang though. It doesn't happen on every video. I'll go for hours before I'll get it again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> What kind of cooler are you using? Really surprised about the heat issues some are reporting.


212 Evo but here, ambient can range from great to really bad. That's b/c my dad controls the thermostat and he's really bad at it. He'll turn it off randomly and ambient in the house will get to 85 and my room is extra hot, so I'm likely approaching 90 when that happens. We're getting close to winter though so I'm kinda anxious to see if I can run 4.3 or even 4.4.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Shall I try to undervolt it? I have a profile that runs 4.0 at -.006 offset which shows up as 1.26 on CPU-Z. Occasionally, I get this weird pause and buzzing sound on videos though which is why I moved away from it. It never BSOD or hang though. It doesn't happen on every video. I'll go for hours before I'll get it again.


well why not? just load AMD Overdrive, put there your desired multiplier and voltage, start the stability test in Overdrive, and go down slowly with the voltage. When it will freeze, you'll note that voltage at that frequency is unstable, and you'll work your way up again at even smaller steps.

On my 860K I cannot go below 1v at all, at any frequency (even 2ghz), and at 1v I can keep 3.2GHz, stable after 10 hours of Overdrive.

From there, it's basically a linear ratio between increase in voltage and frequency. Specifically:

3.3GHz stable @ 1.025v
3.4GHz stable @ 1.05v
3.5GHz stable @1.075v

and so on, until 3.7GHz. From there up, the voltage steps required are getting a tiny bit larger (0.05v instead of 0.025v).
From 4.1/4.2 up, even larger. I believe the sweet spot is exactly before the voltage steps are still somewhat linear, after that the increased heat and power consumption are not worth the frequency increase, IMHO.


----------



## coffeerox

Okay so I've been spending a few hours undervolting and stress testing. I found it weird that I got it down to 1.11 and it still passed stability. So I tried it in BIOS, and nope, it didn't work. I suspect that AOD did not change the voltage (CPU-Z also showed no change during stress). After that fiasco, things were a lot more realistic.

1.15 (PC will not boot)
1.16 (PC boots, Windows won't load)
1.20 (Windows loads to login, after login, black screen)
1.21 (Windows logs in, no black screen, crashes on stability)
1.22 (Passes stability)

I think I'll leave it here for now and see if I can make a minor change to try to get the temp down.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I suspect that AOD did not change the voltage (CPU-Z also showed no change during stress).


I wouldn't trust AOD with voltages at all. In fact the only thing I trust AOD with is thermal margin.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Okay so I've been spending a few hours undervolting and stress testing. I found it weird that I got it down to 1.11 and it still passed stability. So I tried it in BIOS, and nope, it didn't work. I suspect that AOD did not change the voltage (CPU-Z also showed no change during stress). After that fiasco, things were a lot more realistic.
> 
> 1.15 (PC will not boot)
> 1.16 (PC boots, Windows won't load)
> 1.20 (Windows loads to login, after login, black screen)
> 1.21 (Windows logs in, no black screen, crashes on stability)
> 1.22 (Passes stability)
> 
> I think I'll leave it here for now and see if I can make a minor change to try to get the temp down.


At what frequency did you perform these tests?


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> I wouldn't trust AOD with voltages at all. In fact the only thing I trust AOD with is thermal margin.


It is working just fine for me, changing multiplier and voltage with no issues in Windows. Asrock FM2A88X-ITX


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> At what frequency did you perform these tests?


3.7.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> 3.7.


so either I have a very good sample or you have a bad one :\
my RAM is @1600 though, maybe yours clocks higher and puts more stress on the memory controller? Not that it matters much for APUs without iGPU anyways...


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> What are your frequency and voltage at idle ?
> 
> To get good idle temp you have to let the CPU go down to 1700Mhz and 0.9v...
> in bios : AMD POWER NOW = Enabled
> in windows advanced power settings : Minimal processor state = 5%
> 
> Ambiant 26degC
> Mainboard 34 degC
> CPU 37 degC


It's hard to tell the voltage, but it doesn't go past 1.36V with the C&Q, I only saw it going under 1V with ASUS optimized settings and stock. Would have to take more measures, luckily I'm done with finals and I will get more time now. And I haven't seen it idling lower than 3.5GHz and even like that it's hot. But I'm not trusting my readings now. The lowest temp I have seen at idle is 38°C on the aida64, but usually it's at 42°C.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> That's what I'm running. Idles about 6 degrees or so above ambient room temp. At full load with my max overclock it never goes more than 30 above ambient. You won't be dissappointed. I did try it in a push pull configuration and only noticed a difference of about 1 degree under load. It also had some strange harmonics. It just wasn't worth it in my opinion.


Thanks for the info, will try to read my thermal margin first to see if the problem is with my sensors and not the cooler. If it's the cooler I will be thinking in that option.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> juanitox, your temps might be perfectly fine. The thing about temperature readings on AMD cpu's is that it's fake on every program. The temp sensors don't actually work correctly. The only accurate indicator is thermal margin (except thermal margin still doesn't tell you your temp). Unfortunately your problem is that you don't know what thermal margin is, so what you're seeing might or might not be a safe temp.
> 
> Since I can see my thermal margin, I can see that 4.2ghz is completely safe. Using my chart, it holds steady at 60c. 4.3 on the other hand brings it up to 67c which I don't feel comfortable running at 24/7. I think I need a watercooler to get up to 4.4 but I don't think spending all that money for 200Mhz is worth it.
> 
> edit:
> 
> speaking of temps and stress testing, I know that Prime95, especially the latest versions, runs hotter than a normal 100% load does. So my question is, which stress test represents more accurate temps under 100% load?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> that and idle temps on these are less accurate than loaded temps.
> 
> you need to try again to get amd overdrive running


Sadly I can't get my AMD overdrive running. I have unistalled completly both drivers and overdrive, installed from scratch and it crashes my system. And yeah to be honest I would like to put the money somewhere else, like in a better videocard. Do you have any other tip to try to read my thermal margin or get my overdrive running?

I was told CoreTemp might give me the thermal margins, but I'm not trusting the site, even the chrome is blocking the site and I have read it really has malicious code, so better safe than sorry.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Sadly I can't get my AMD overdrive running. I have unistalled completly both drivers and overdrive, installed from scratch and it crashes my system. And yeah to be honest I would like to put the money somewhere else, like in a better videocard. Do you have any other tip to try to read my thermal margin or get my overdrive running?
> 
> I was told CoreTemp might give me the thermal margins, but I'm not trusting the site, even the chrome is blocking the site and I have read it really has malicious code, so better safe than sorry.


Have you tried running a virus scan recently?

Core Temp seems to be pretty accurate with temp compared to my AOD readings but not when set to show thermal margin. By default it shows temp.

As for your chrome issue http://www.alcpu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=2698


----------



## Jack13

juanitox,
When I was using the A88X-Plus, I was never able to get AOD working. Speed Fan has always given me pretty good temperature reads for cpu and motherboard, but it tends , for me at least, to give some really wild gpu temps. Sometimes right on and other times -9999999 degrees.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> Have you tried running a virus scan recently?
> 
> Core Temp seems to be pretty accurate with temp compared to my AOD readings but not when set to show thermal margin. By default it shows temp.
> 
> As for your chrome issue http://www.alcpu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=2698


Thanks for the info, it seems to be a false positive then. I haven't installed it, just tried to go to the site but Chrome always gave me the alert, so I didn't try.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> juanitox,
> When I was using the A88X-Plus, I was never able to get AOD working. Speed Fan has always given me pretty good temperature reads for cpu and motherboard, but it tends , for me at least, to give some really wild gpu temps. Sometimes right on and other times -9999999 degrees.


Damn, it might be something with the mobo then. I got SpeedFan as well, I get the same temps in SpeedFan, AIDA64 and the ASUS software.

Edit: btw I got some error while playing Guild Wars 2, "CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT error", is it related to some inestable overclock? I was running at 4.2GHz and it seemed stable, I downclocked to 4.1GHz. It only happened once tho.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Edit: btw I got some error while playing Guild Wars 2, "CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT error", is it related to some inestable overclock? I was running at 4.2GHz and it seemed stable, I downclocked to 4.1GHz. It only happened once tho.


I've read (can't recall where) that it could be caused by not enough voltage. Did this happen before or after you started lowering the voltage?


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I've read (can't recall where) that it could be caused by not enough voltage. Did this happen before or after you started lowering the voltage?


Only happened once when I was running the cpu at 4.2GHz, tho it seemed stable in the other stress tests. So i decided to downclock to 4.1GHz after, because I figured maybe the voltage wasn't enough. It happened when the CPU was at full load with 100+ players in the same map lol


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Thanks for the info, it seems to be a false positive then. I haven't installed it, just tried to go to the site but Chrome always gave me the alert, so I didn't try.
> Damn, it might be something with the mobo then. I got SpeedFan as well, I get the same temps in SpeedFan, AIDA64 and the ASUS software.


No wonder chrome is blocking the coretemp website. The installer is full of optional bloat/spyware. But if you are careful no one installs.

One good alternative if *HWINFO*. It shows CPU 0 temp under CPU category that is directly related to Thermal margin (verified with Coretemp in parallel).
In my case CPU 0 = 70degC - thermal margin.

On y mainbard the processor starts thermal throttle when reaching Thermal margin = 5degC or CPU 0 = 65degC

And for the issue with AMD Overdrive, I see also incompatibility with my Asus A88XMplus mainboard.

Anyone using asus mainboard who could install AOD ?


----------



## Jack13

It has worked perfectly since I switched to a Crossblade Ranger.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> so either I have a very good sample or you have a bad one :\


I'm gonna go with mine is bad







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> One good alternative if *HWINFO*. It shows CPU 0 temp under CPU category that is directly related to Thermal margin (verified with Coretemp in parallel).
> In my case CPU 0 = 70degC - thermal margin.


^ This.
Quote:


> Anyone using asus mainboard who could install AOD ?


Runs fine on A88X-Pro.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> No wonder chrome is blocking the coretemp website. The installer is full of optional bloat/spyware.


Yup. I had a look at Core Temp after I bypassed Chrome's warning. When I saw all the nasty adware and spyware I said nope, not touching that. Apparently the creators of Core temp decided to generate some income by agreeing to bundle those extra programs. Years ago it was one of the go to options, but HWin is just as good or better.


----------



## juanitox

Thanks guys!







Will check with HWiNFO later on


----------



## Scorpion49

Well, I just got an email from AMD. A new 860K is on its way back! Does anyone have a good comparison of this chip with something like a Q6600 for gaming?

One of my best friends is going through a rough time and his machine just gave up the ghost, I think its a Q8300? Whatever the 2.4ghz one is, he has no overclock. I was thinking about putting together something for him with the 860K or the 7700K presuming it would be a significant improvement.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Yup. I had a look at Core Temp after I bypassed Chrome's warning. When I saw all the nasty adware and spyware I said nope, not touching that. Apparently the creators of Core temp decided to generate some income by agreeing to bundle those extra programs. Years ago it was one of the go to options, but HWin is just as good or better.


hmm, I downloaded and installed to compare it's readings. Didn't notice any tiny boxes to uncheck. Did not add any visible programs to my installed list, and a malwarebytes scan came back clean.

But either way HWinfo seems to be as close to AOD readings as coretemp, still off 2-4 degrees though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> One of my best friends is going through a rough time and his machine just gave up the ghost, I think its a Q8300? Whatever the 2.4ghz one is, he has no overclock. I was thinking about putting together something for him with the 860K or the 7700K presuming it would be a significant improvement.


I think it's safe to say it would be a significant improvement, single and multi thread

http://www.game-debate.com/cpu/index.php?pid=2160&pid2=237&compare=athlon-ii-x4-860k-vs-core-2-quad-q8300-2-5ghz
from mdocod's throughput thread


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> No wonder chrome is blocking the coretemp website. The installer is full of optional bloat/spyware.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. I had a look at Core Temp after I bypassed Chrome's warning. When I saw all the nasty adware and spyware I said nope, not touching that. Apparently the creators of Core temp decided to generate some income by agreeing to bundle those extra programs. Years ago it was one of the go to options, but HWin is just as good or better.
Click to expand...

You know you can just click on "other downloads" and download the 32 or 64bit zip files right? That way you don't have to put up with the infested installer lol.

Sent from my OnePlus One


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys, so I was checking Hwinfo a bit and this is the lowest temp I got from core 0, well kinda weird temp anyway, too low. I have to perform stress tests now and check.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys, so I was checking Hwinfo a bit and this is the lowest temp I got from core 0, well kinda weird temp anyway, too low. I have to perform stress tests now and check.


It's not a real temp. It's thermal margin but reversed. Where AMD Overdrive would show you temperatures starting from 70 (coolest) and then go downwards (hottest), HwInfo shows you a low temp (coolest) to high temp (hottest). To convert that number to thermal margin, just subtract it from 70.

For example, your current is 16.6. The calculation is 70 - 16.6 = 53.4.

Under load, you don't want this reading under 20. On HwInfo, it'll read as 50. You could go a little bit past that and it'll still be safe. Some people take it all the way to the edge at 10 thermal margin (60 hwinfo). I personally wouldn't do it though.

edit:
That's pretty hot for an idle reading. I think your LLC settings are making it hotter than it needs to be. On mine, LLC doesn't need to be changed until 4.2ghz. Try it on auto and get readings then.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> It's not a real temp. It's thermal margin but reversed. Where AMD Overdrive would show you temperatures starting from 70 (coolest) and then go downwards (hottest), HwInfo shows you a low temp (coolest) to high temp (hottest). To convert that number to thermal margin, just subtract it from 70.
> 
> For example, your current is 16.6. The calculation is 70 - 16.6 = 53.4.
> 
> Under load, you don't want this reading under 20. On HwInfo, it'll read as 50. You could go a little bit past that and it'll still be safe. Some people take it all the way to the edge at 10 thermal margin (60 hwinfo). I personally wouldn't do it though.
> 
> edit:
> That's pretty hot for an idle reading. I think your LLC settings are making it hotter than it needs to be. On mine, LLC doesn't need to be changed until 4.2ghz. Try it on auto and get readings then.


Hey thanks for your answer! Yeah that was at idle, my LLC is set as medium (60% for my mobo). So should I set auto? or just normal (0%)? Since my overclock is not so high, didn't want to risk it till I solve my temps problem.

Edit: also after I set my LLC will perform full load tests.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey thanks for your answer! Yeah that was at idle, my LLC is set as medium (60% for my mobo). So should I set auto? or just normal (0%)? Since my overclock is not so high, didn't want to risk it till I solve my temps problem.
> 
> Edit: also after I set my LLC will perform full load tests.


Yeah just set it to auto. When LLC is set to medium, by default it's going to run hotter.


----------



## Jack13

Does the circled temp match what your BIOS reading says? If so, that's still a bit high at idle, but not horrible depending upon your ambient temp.
Right now I have an ambient of 30.6 and my CPU temp is 38.
The "CPU O" reading is often wrong. Mine reads 13.2 (that would make me nervous!)


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Yeah just set it to auto. When LLC is set to medium, by default it's going to run hotter.


Thanks. I will do that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> 
> 
> Does the circled temp match what your BIOS reading says? If so, that's still a bit high at idle, but not horrible depending upon your ambient temp.
> Right now I have an ambient of 30.6 and my CPU temp is 38.
> The "CPU O" reading is often wrong. Mine reads 13.2 (that would make me nervous!)


Yup it matches my BIOS, it gets me annoyed every time I just turn on my PC, go into the BIOS and I see such a high temp right away. Even with ~ 25° ambient temps I get 40 - 44°C while idle.


----------



## Jack13

I've never owned a 212, but I have read a lot of reviews and questions which state that a lot of them (not all) run pretty warm at idle but cool like just about any other air cooler when under load. I really don't think you have anything to worry about if your load temps are under 60 while overclocked.


----------



## By-Tor

Any word on the 880k?


----------



## Scorpion49

AMD came through, I just got a brand new 860K in the mail yesterday. A little higher stock VID than the old chip, this one is 1.387V while the other one was under 1.300V.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I've never owned a 212, but I have read a lot of reviews and questions which state that a lot of them (not all) run pretty warm at idle but cool like just about any other air cooler when under load. I really don't think you have anything to worry about if your load temps are under 60 while overclocked.


They usually were under 60°C with the readings I had, now I gotta check with the margin from HWinfo. WIll try to test this weekend, I hope I get some extra time.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> The "CPU O" reading is often wrong. Mine reads 13.2 (that would make me nervous!)


That's because the CPU 0 reading is Thermal Margin, and right now that's the only way he can read it since AOD doesn't work on his.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> AMD came through, I just got a brand new 860K in the mail yesterday. A little higher stock VID than the old chip, this one is 1.387V while the other one was under 1.300V.


grats! Interesting that it's 1.387v. Are all CPU's going to come with different stock voltages? Do you think that will affect your max overclock?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> That's because the CPU 0 reading is Thermal Margin, and right now that's the only way he can read it since AOD doesn't work on his.
> grats! Interesting that it's 1.387v. Are all CPU's going to come with different stock voltages? Do you think that will affect your max overclock?


Each CPU has a unique stock VID. The lower it is, usually the less leaky the chip. However, a low leakage chip will max out on air/water before a high leakage one, usually just at a lower voltage. AMD bins the very high leakage FX chips into the 93xx/95xx which is why you see them running at 1.500V+ out of the box.


----------



## Jack13

This is under idle.



Under load.

"CPU 0" does not correspond to anything.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> 
> 
> This is under idle.
> 
> 
> 
> Under load.
> 
> "CPU 0" does not correspond to anything.


Under idle I don't see relation. I see relation under load

70 - 48.8 (CPU0) = 21.2 (Thermal Margin)

I hope I don't have to change my cooler, because that would be at least 70 bucks for the noctua and I could be using that for a better videocard instead x.x


----------



## Jack13

I meant to say it didn't mean anything at idle temps which is where your concern is. My bad for not being clear.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about your cooler as long as your upper end temps don't get out of control. Put that money towards a GPU. Then later, you can upgrade to the noctua or even a full blown water cooling loop. I'm fighting the urge to go full water, and the $400+ it would cost me is aiding in my fight.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> AMD came through, I just got a brand new 860K in the mail yesterday. A little higher stock VID than the old chip, this one is 1.387V while the other one was under 1.300V.


That's where my VID is. Hope it overclocks well.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Under idle I don't see relation. I see relation under load
> 
> 70 - 48.8 (CPU0) = 21.2 (Thermal Margin)
> 
> I hope I don't have to change my cooler, because that would be at least 70 bucks for the noctua and I could be using that for a better videocard instead x.x


AOD was never accurate for idle. But yeah, you correctly saw that under load, the number correspond with thermal margin. That reading is safe btw. I'm kind of jealous lol!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I meant to say it didn't mean anything at idle temps which is where your concern is. My bad for not being clear.


How my friend reads AOD close to idle is that he plays a YT video. At 480p it should be about 6% across all cores. Mine reads 60c margin. According to my chart, that's 42c. Pretty damn cool!


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> AMD came through, I just got a brand new 860K in the mail yesterday. A little higher stock VID than the old chip, this one is 1.387V while the other one was under 1.300V.


Can you check how much voltage it requires to run @stock under full load? Just curious.


----------



## Scorpion49

So I started build a very low-budget rig for my friend who is in dire need right now, and went with the NZXT Source 210. What an amazing case for $40, I highly recommend it for anyone looking to build a budget rig (figured a lot of folks looking for info on the 860K would be interested in this sort of thing). I've used dozens and dozens of different cases over the years but this one will be my definite go-to for lower cost builds until they discontinue it. Plus it comes in white, which is my favorite case color.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Can you check how much voltage it requires to run @stock under full load? Just curious.


I'll try to check a little later, I have no OS installed for that rig so I'd have to get through all that.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I meant to say it didn't mean anything at idle temps which is where your concern is. My bad for not being clear.
> Personally, I wouldn't worry about your cooler as long as your upper end temps don't get out of control. Put that money towards a GPU. Then later, you can upgrade to the noctua or even a full blown water cooling loop. I'm fighting the urge to go full water, and the $400+ it would cost me is aiding in my fight.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> AOD was never accurate for idle. But yeah, you correctly saw that under load, the number correspond with thermal margin. That reading is safe btw. I'm kind of jealous lol!
> How my friend reads AOD close to idle is that he plays a YT video. At 480p it should be about 6% across all cores. Mine reads 60c margin. According to my chart, that's 42c. Pretty damn cool!


Alright thank you both. Will try stressing later. I'm always looking for time x.x


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I started build a very low-budget rig for my friend who is in dire need right now, and went with the NZXT Source 210. What an amazing case for $40, I highly recommend it for anyone looking to build a budget rig (figured a lot of folks looking for info on the 860K would be interested in this sort of thing). I've used dozens and dozens of different cases over the years but this one will be my definite go-to for lower cost builds until they discontinue it. Plus it comes in white, which is my favorite case color.


I have the S340 and consider myself a serious NZXT fanboy. I appreciate that info because I want to use my current case for my future Skylake build and needed something to switch my 860K to.


----------



## coffeerox

This is the one my friend uses in his 8350 build, at the time, he got it for 30 bucks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146178&cm_re=nzxt_source_220-_-11-146-178-_-Product


Sucks that the price went up to 60 though. At the time we thought it was the default price


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I started build a very low-budget rig for my friend who is in dire need right now, and went with the NZXT Source 210. What an amazing case for $40, I highly recommend it for anyone looking to build a budget rig (figured a lot of folks looking for info on the 860K would be interested in this sort of thing). I've used dozens and dozens of different cases over the years but this one will be my definite go-to for lower cost builds *until they discontinue it*. Plus it comes in white, which is my favorite case color.


I don't know if it's a bad sign, but here only the Elite 210 is still on sale. Could be bad news for the Source 210. I had almost bought this case for myself, but i stopped at the last minute, because of the uneven front line (the little Adrian Monk inside me was protesting), the positioning of USB ports one next to other (it may prevent using 2 flat USB keys at the same time) and the top fans (front mesh and top fan holes are bad for silent PC). Otherwise, for its money, it was impressive for its design and weight. It's like 2 kg heavier than your usual case of that price range. Which means, it must have sturdy steel, instead of the more bendable variety.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Otherwise, for its money, it was impressive for its design and weight. It's like 2 kg heavier than your usual case of that price range. Which means, it must have sturdy steel, instead of the more bendable variety.


That's NZXT for ya


----------



## Scorpion49

Yeah this thing is a rock. Very solid, and the paint finish is a lot more durable than my black S340, it feels almost like powdercoat. The Elite is identical except with USB 3.0 and little clips for the HDD/ODD.

Heres some potato pics lol:


----------



## syl1979

For those running on A88xM Plus, do not upgrade bios to 2502.

I need to add +0.05V to CPU core to get stability versus 2302. Worse I cannot reverse back to this version ....


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hmm, I never upgrade my BIOS. I was thinking about it the other day.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> For those running on A88xM Plus, do not upgrade bios to 2502.
> 
> I need to add +0.05V to CPU core to get stability versus 2302. Worse I cannot reverse back to this version ....


2502 bios is based on Bristol Ridge AGESA, which is obviously at the moment in early beta stage.
2401 is the latest version you want to use for Kaveri / Godavari, at least until the Bristol Ridge AGESA matures up.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> 2502 bios is based on Bristol Ridge AGESA, which is obviously at the moment in early beta stage.
> 2401 is the latest version you want to use for Kaveri / Godavari, at least until the Bristol Ridge AGESA matures up.


So Asus releases the Bios to make me a beta tester, without the possibility to reverse back...

Great.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> So Asus releases the Bios to make me a beta tester, without the possibility to reverse back...
> 
> Great.


Does EzFlash prevent you from downgrading?
If it does, try BUpdater under DOS downloads.


----------



## syl1979

I tried both, on both I get the message "Bios outdated"....

The update to 2502 took a long time, maybe they changed the structure or something that doesn't allow to go back.

Before I was able to revert from 2401 to 2302 without any issue.


----------



## Scorpion49

I've got everyone beat for bad overclocker I think with the replacement 860K. Running all 4 cores at only 3.8ghz takes 1.475V. I attempted 4.0ghz but even with 1.550V it won't boot to windows on either of my boards.


----------



## Jack13

What voltage does it apply if it's in turbo mode? Or will it even go to the advertised speed? I'm less disappointed with my junker now and thankful I was able to get a good one to replace it.


----------



## drmrlordx

If you want to see the voltages for turbo modes, run amdmsrtweaker with no arguments, and it will show you all the current p-states. The states listed as p0, p1, and p2 show you the turbo settings.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I've got everyone beat for bad overclocker I think with the replacement 860K. Running all 4 cores at only 3.8ghz takes 1.475V. I attempted 4.0ghz but even with 1.550V it won't boot to windows on either of my boards.


Did you make sure all power savers were off? I would also up VRM settings, that can sometimes increase steady voltage.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Did you make sure all power savers were off? I would also up VRM settings, that can sometimes increase steady voltage.


Yep. Both the A88X-UP4 and the A88X-Pro give the same results with this CPU. My old 860K could do 4600mhz with less volts than this one loads at stock.


----------



## jsc1973

Sounds like that's just a crappy 860K. As fussy as Kaveri is about power, I guess a bad power supply could hold one back, but I'm sure you know better than to hook your computer to one of Jonnyguru's gutless wonders.

If that chip can't do a straight 4 GHz even with 1.550v, I wonder if it's even fully stable when it turbos up to 4 GHz. I'd run every stability test I could at that chip, running at stock settings, and try to get it to flunk so I could RMA it back to AMD as a defective part. If it fails any stability test at AMD's advertised settings, you're within your rights to ask for a replacement.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Sounds like that's just a crappy 860K. As fussy as Kaveri is about power, I guess a bad power supply could hold one back, but I'm sure you know better than to hook your computer to one of Jonnyguru's gutless wonders.
> 
> If that chip can't do a straight 4 GHz even with 1.550v, I wonder if it's even fully stable when it turbos up to 4 GHz. I'd run every stability test I could at that chip, running at stock settings, and try to get it to flunk so I could RMA it back to AMD as a defective part. If it fails any stability test at AMD's advertised settings, you're within your rights to ask for a replacement.


I have another PSU and set of RAM coming today I'll check with it just to be sure, but I doubt anything has changed with those parts. My 7700k doesn't OC for crap either, maxes out at 4.2ghz with lots of throttling. The old 860k was a beast using the same hardware.


----------



## CravinR1

Anyone have a x4 860K + 260X ?

I recommended my friend this build and was wondering what your guys thoughts are on it as a primary gaming setup?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> So he's not sure on his max budget but here are the configurations I mentioned to him
> 
> *$280*
> A10 5800K
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113280
> 
> *$350*
> X4 860K
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113379
> 
> Powercolor 260x
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131625
> 
> *Both builds will include:*
> 
> GIGABYTE GA-F2A68HM-H
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128763
> 
> Crucial Ballistix Sport 8gb (2x4gb) 1866mhz
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156035
> 
> WD 1tb EZEX
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339
> 
> Logisys PSU and Case I have $45 combo
> 
> Win 7 or 8.1
> 
> Suggestions for improved performance at same/less cost appreciated


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anyone have a x4 860K + 260X ?
> 
> I recommended my friend this build and was wondering what your guys thoughts are on it as a primary gaming setup?


For $99 get this instead: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4GH3396553

260X is pretty damn slow, if the budget is that low I'd look to craigslist or ebay and get something decent used.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CravinR1*
> 
> Anyone have a x4 860K + 260X ?
> 
> I recommended my friend this build and was wondering what your guys thoughts are on it as a primary gaming setup?
> *Logisys PSU*


Definitely look into a different PSU.


----------



## chuy409

Basically what scorpion said. Or you can head over to r/hardwareswap in reddit. I almost see everyday 7950/70 going for 80-120 bucks which would obliterate the 260x for around the same price.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardwareswap/comments/3pg1cr/usaorh_gigabyte_7950_hd_3gb_w_paypal/

I literally found this in the first pages of r/hardware. Some very good prices are in there.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuy409*
> 
> Basically what scorpion said. Or you can head over to r/hardwareswap in reddit. I almost see everyday 7950/70 going for 80-120 bucks which would obliterate the 260x for around the same price.


Yep, you can get some good deals if you look around.


----------



## Jack13

I did have a 260X with both a 5800K and 860K (through various stages of computer parts musical chairs). I'm not into heavy gaming but I could see that the 260X was seriously wanting. I would agree with the others...get something else. I now have a 290X and it works very nicely with the 860K. But, like I said, I'm not into heavy gaming, just some light simple stuff.


----------



## Jack13

Also, skip the 5800K. For less money, the 860K is far superior.
Now, if the 880K ever see's the light of day, that'd be worth looking into. But, it's looking like the 870, the 880 and Sasquatch are all just folk lore.


----------



## Liranan

For people who don't want a dGPU the 5800K isn't a bad choice, however in that case the A8-7650K might be the better choice. But that is just a guess as I'm not entirely certain which APU's are comparable.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liranan*
> 
> For people who don't want a dGPU the 5800K isn't a bad choice, however in that case the A8-7650K might be the better choice. But that is just a guess as I'm not entirely certain which APU's are comparable.


If you have an FM2 board, the 6800K is the best choice if you want a dGPU, the 760K is if you don't. The 5800K/Athlon 750K is the same part on the older Trinity core and doesn't OC as well.

For FM2+, the best part is the 7870K APU on the Godavari core. If you don't want the dGPU, the Kaveri-based Athlon 860K is the one to have. There hasn't been a Godavari Athlon show up yet, although AMD told the mobo manufacturers that an 870K and 880K are coming and they've been in BIOSes for months. If they come on the same timetable that the 860K did, it will be nine months after the release of the full APU, and show up sometime in December.

If you're not going to be gaming, or don't mind playing at 720K at medium settings, then a 5800K at current prices is a pretty good deal, even now, and they're readily available. It's basically an FX-4300 plus a Radeon 6670. A current 7850K/7870K is an FX-4300 with higher IPC mated to an R7 250/HD 7750.


----------



## Scorpion49

Ok, serious case of weird. I took the new 860K back to the UP4 from the A88X-Pro and now it seems to be fine doing 4200mhz at 1.395V. I have no idea whats going on any more. Finished 30 minutes of P95 at 4200mhz/1.395V and I moved up to 4400mhz at 1.425V and its hasn't crashed yet there either.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Ok, serious case of weird. I took the new 860K back to the UP4 from the A88X-Pro and now it seems to be fine doing 4200mhz at 1.395V. I have no idea whats going on any more. Finished 30 minutes of P95 at 4200mhz/1.395V and I moved up to 4400mhz at 1.425V and its hasn't crashed yet there either.


What BIOS revision are you running on the A88X-Pro? I had a similar problem with my 860K when ASUS added Godavari support to the BIOS, and had to roll back to the last pre-Godavari revision (1703) for my chip to even function correctly at stock settings. Here's the thread on it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1558273/a88x-pro-bios-2001/0_100

Incidentally, the issue seems have been resolved, at least for me, in revision 2103. But it's something to consider. Version 1703 works for every Kaveri I've heard of.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> What BIOS revision are you running on the A88X-Pro? I had a similar problem with my 860K when ASUS added Godavari support to the BIOS, and had to roll back to the last pre-Godavari revision (1703) for my chip to even function correctly at stock settings. Here's the thread on it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1558273/a88x-pro-bios-2001/0_100
> 
> Incidentally, the issue seems have been resolved, at least for me, in revision 2103. But it's something to consider. Version 1703 works for every Kaveri I've heard of.


The Pro is on 1703, but I don't think it was a BIOS issue. Both boards were showing the same behavior and then suddenly it stopped. Just passed 30 minutes of P95 at 4400mhz 1.425V and moved up to 4600mhz at 1.450V.


----------



## Scorpion49

Still tweaking, it didn't like 4600mhz so I'm back down to 4400mhz but in order to have 2000mhz NB I've needed to up the CPU voltage to 1.465 and the NB to 1.250. I found on the Gigabyte board the LLC settings are ******ed, seems to go like this:

Low: full Vdroop
Medium: ~.010mV Vdroop
Standard: full Vdroop
Normal: full Vdroop
Extreme: + ~.010mV increase

I have no idea what these are actually supposed to do but this is my observation with a multimeter, three of the settings do exactly nothing at all. Medium and Extreme are the only ones that seem to work, medium is a small Vdroop and Extreme is a small voltage increase. I saw much better stability using medium on both CPUVID and NBVID.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Still tweaking, it didn't like 4600mhz so I'm back down to 4400mhz but in order to have 2000mhz NB I've needed to up the CPU voltage to 1.465 and the NB to 1.250. I found on the Gigabyte board the LLC settings are ******ed, seems to go like this:
> 
> Low: full Vdroop
> Medium: ~.010mV Vdroop
> Standard: full Vdroop
> Normal: full Vdroop
> Extreme: + ~.010mV increase
> 
> I have no idea what these are actually supposed to do but this is my observation with a multimeter, three of the settings do exactly nothing at all. Medium and Extreme are the only ones that seem to work, medium is a small Vdroop and Extreme is a small voltage increase. I saw much better stability using medium on both CPUVID and NBVID.


Gigabyte EUFI bios is terrible. There is no excuse for how bare bones and non intuitive when ASUS can do such a good job.


----------



## Robenger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Gigabyte EUFI bios is terrible. There is no excuse for how bare bones and non intuitive when ASUS can do such a good job.


Agreed, although I do like Asrocks bios as well.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Gigabyte EUFI bios is terrible. There is no excuse for how bare bones and non intuitive when ASUS can do such a good job.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robenger*
> 
> Agreed, although I do like Asrocks bios as well.


I agree with both of these. The BIOS is stripped as bare as can be, but it's very good for beginners like I was months ago.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Low: full Vdroop
> Medium: ~.010mV Vdroop
> Standard: full Vdroop
> Normal: full Vdroop
> Extreme: + ~.010mV increase


Normal / Standard = 100/100 (%) - Auto / Regular on ASUS
Low = 80/100 (%) - Medium on ASUS
Medium = 60/100 (%) - High on ASUS
Extreme = 0/100 (%) - Extreme on ASUS


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> Low: full Vdroop
> Medium: ~.010mV Vdroop
> Standard: full Vdroop
> Normal: full Vdroop
> Extreme: + ~.010mV increase
> 
> I have no idea what these are actually supposed to do but this is my observation with a multimeter, three of the settings do exactly nothing at all.


When i first saw on the Giga UD3P the "Standard" and "normal" setting, i was scratching my head and thinking "huh, what's the difference?". It's part of the intuitive design that characterizes Gigabyte's UEFI.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robenger*
> 
> Agreed, although I do like Asrocks bios as well.


ANYTHING is better than Gigabyte's UEFI. Even Biostar's UEFI looks amazing! Even Asrock 970 UEFI with cheesy stars background looks better. The only ones that don't see a problem, are those of Gigabyte's sales anb marketing department. They probably all run non Gigabyte motherboards, so they don't notice.







The BIOS team is all drunk, so they don't see anything wrong either.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I agree with both of these. The BIOS is stripped as bare as can be, but it's very good for beginners like I was months ago.


I can see your point. My two ROG board bios have more voltage settings than you can shake a stick at. Probably why I don't use them lol!


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Normal / Standard = 100/100 (%) - Auto / Regular on ASUS
> Low = 80/100 (%) - Medium on ASUS
> Medium = 60/100 (%) - High on ASUS
> Extreme = 0/100 (%) - Extreme on ASUS


So 100% is basically LLC off? Based on a set 1.400V do these look correct? I'm measuring with my meter at one of the CPU phase caps on the back of the board.

Auto - 1.320V
Normal - 1.320V
Standard - 1.320V
Low - 1.320V
Medium - 1.392V
Extreme - 1.410V

Regardless, I can't get a stable OC with this chip. It ran P95 for 18 hours at 4400mhz but the second I went to do Windows updates it hard-locked so badly I had to shut the PSU off.


----------



## The Stilt

IMO load-line should never be disabled completely as it causes the voltage to overshoot.
The overshoot comes from the infrastructure specification, which requires the Vmin to be VID + 10mV, Vavg to be VID +35mV and Vmax to be VID + 60mV. On Kaveri / Godavari the 60% settings has worked best for me.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> IMO load-line should never be disabled completely as it causes the voltage to overshoot.
> The overshoot comes from the infrastructure specification, which requires the Vmin to be VID + 10mV, Vavg to be VID +35mV and Vmax to be VID + 60mV. On Kaveri / Godavari the 60% settings has worked best for me.


I agree with you (the 60%/ Medium setting is the only one that has actually worked at all for me) I was just trying to decide if I want to go back to F6 BIOS if the F7 might be bugged. The replacement board they sent me shipped with F7 on it and based on my observations it may not be entirely bug-free.

I'm about to move back to the Asus board and re-do my testing there.


----------



## Scorpion49

So now I'm back to square one. I switched the chip over to the Asus board and put the water loop back together only to find that the brand new OCZ Arc 100 480GB I've been using for testing on this CPU has died. I can't figure out if the I/O errors that Kaveri likes to generate with insufficient voltage killed the drive, or the drive was bad already and that was causing all of the instabilities. Chicken or the egg I guess.

Now I've used an ancient WD 320GB drive from 2006 that I don't care if it dies, and the system feels much better and more responsive, not so many micro-freezes (this is really saying something comparing a drive this slow to an SSD). This has me leaning towards the drive having been bad and causing all of the problems to begin with.


----------



## Jack13

Scorpion,
I've got my not-so-good 860 in my asus plus board on the bench right now. I'm waiting for the chance to get a different cooler (stock is on it right now) and I'd be game for going setting for setting with you and compare notes. Maybe I'll pop over to best buy and pick up a cheap-o AIO rather than making a 100 mile trip to microcenter or fry's.


----------



## muzammil84

hello everyone. So I got mine 860k 7 months ago and I must say it's a great price/performance ratio.
After some time spent on tweaking I am stable @4.4 GHz. Nothing spectacular( I guess my chip isn't supeclocker) but a large noticeable improvement over stock 3.7. I am using Asus A88x-gamer mobo which is quite good imo( I went thru the whole thread and there isn't much abiut that mobo which is surprising for me), voltage is a bit high, 4.4 GHz @ 1.5v but it runs really cool(max temp 50 deg on Corsair H90) and max power draw only 97.8 Watt. NB @2000 MHz with 1.19v. Ram 2x4Gb HyperX Savage 2400MHz with auto timings.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> hello everyone. So I got mine 860k 7 months ago and I must say it's a great price/performance ratio.
> After some time spent on tweaking I am stable @4.4 GHz. Nothing spectacular( I guess my chip isn't supeclocker) but a large noticeable improvement over stock 3.7. I am using Asus A88x-gamer mobo which is quite good imo( I went thru the whole thread and there isn't much abiut that mobo which is surprising for me), voltage is a bit high, 4.4 GHz @ 1.5v but it runs really cool(max temp 50 deg on Corsair H90) and max power draw only 97.8 Watt. NB @2000 MHz with 1.19v. Ram 2x4Gb HyperX Savage 2400MHz with auto timings.


4.4 is nothing to sneeze at. I've had mine as high as 4.5 but IMO the performance gain wasn't worth the extra volts so I run at 4.4 also. From what I can gather, a stable 4.6 and above is mostly luck of the draw. I never was able to achieve a stable 4.6 but I'm still learning all this as I go and time is sometimes kinda tight for playing around.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Scorpion,
> I've got my not-so-good 860 in my asus plus board on the bench right now. I'm waiting for the chance to get a different cooler (stock is on it right now) and I'd be game for going setting for setting with you and compare notes. Maybe I'll pop over to best buy and pick up a cheap-o AIO rather than making a 100 mile trip to microcenter or fry's.


Yeah, that might be useful. This morning I've run the 860K in both the UP4 and the Asus board, and I have also run the 7700K in both. Neither chip is a good clocker, both hit a wall around 4.4ghz it seems like even with 1.5V+. I really wish I didn't kill my old 860K, that thing was freaking golden, 4600 stable at only 1.425V.

This is my cooling setup right now, slightly overkill for this chip haha:


----------



## Jack13

Cool. I may accidentally pick up a cooler on my way to home depot today (don't tell the wife). Tonight I'll make sure everything is updated and try to get going on it.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Currently, I'm running win10 on the gigabyte f2a88x-up4 board and I keep getting random reboots when I enable either of the memory profiles. My memory is the 2400mhz corsair. I disabled the memory profiles and that has cut down on the random reboots. Windows says it is a memory error. The overclock utility gives me program failed to load properly errors too. Is gigabyte going to update their utility to be compatible with Win10 anytime soon?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Currently, I'm running win10 on the gigabyte f2a88x-up4 board and I keep getting random reboots when I enable either of the memory profiles. My memory is the 2400mhz corsair. I disabled the memory profiles and that has cut down on the random reboots. Windows says it is a memory error. The overclock utility gives me program failed to load properly errors too. Is gigabyte going to update their utility to be compatible with Win10 anytime soon?


The Gigabyte board doesn't do well with 2400mhz RAM without a lot of tweaking. I was never able to get either of my UP4's to do 2400, they both hit a wall at 2133. Meanwhile even the $45 MSI board I had could do it just fine with the same chip and memory kit.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Currently, I'm running win10 on the gigabyte f2a88x-up4 board and I keep getting random reboots when I enable either of the memory profiles. My memory is the 2400mhz corsair. I disabled the memory profiles and that has cut down on the random reboots. Windows says it is a memory error. The overclock utility gives me program failed to load properly errors too. Is gigabyte going to update their utility to be compatible with Win10 anytime soon?


Does your PC just freeze at random and you have to force restart it ? Cause if that's the issue, I had that on my F2A88XM-DS2 and I know of a solution. Happened on win 8.1, so if thats the problem, it's not win10 specific.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Currently, I'm running win10 on the gigabyte f2a88x-up4 board and I keep getting random reboots when I enable either of the memory profiles. My memory is the 2400mhz corsair. I disabled the memory profiles and that has cut down on the random reboots. Windows says it is a memory error. The overclock utility gives me program failed to load properly errors too. Is gigabyte going to update their utility to be compatible with Win10 anytime soon?
> 
> 
> 
> The Gigabyte board doesn't do well with 2400mhz RAM without a lot of tweaking. I was never able to get either of my UP4's to do 2400, they both hit a wall at 2133. Meanwhile even the $45 MSI board I had could do it just fine with the same chip and memory kit.
Click to expand...

I'm down clocking to 2133 as well too.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Currently, I'm running win10 on the gigabyte f2a88x-up4 board and I keep getting random reboots when I enable either of the memory profiles. My memory is the 2400mhz corsair. I disabled the memory profiles and that has cut down on the random reboots. Windows says it is a memory error. The overclock utility gives me program failed to load properly errors too. Is gigabyte going to update their utility to be compatible with Win10 anytime soon?
> 
> 
> 
> Does your PC just freeze at random and you have to force restart it ? Cause if that's the issue, I had that on my F2A88XM-DS2 and I know of a solution. Happened on win 8.1, so if thats the problem, it's not win10 specific.
Click to expand...

I get these windows ran low on memory an needs to reboot errors, and I have 16GB by the way. The reboots seems to happen after long gaming sessions.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> I get these windows ran low on memory an needs to reboot errors, and I have 16GB by the way. The reboots seems to happen after long gaming sessions.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Have you checked the BIOS to make sure all of your modules are being used? I just had to RMA my UP4 because it was doing this (look at installed size vs enabled size, Windows was showing the full amount btw but only using half):


----------



## VordaVor

I have a question guys. Can a PSU affect coil whine in motherboard ? I have XBR and I still have some coil whine, that really kicks in when overclocking. I had a lower quality gigabyte board before, and coil whine was slightly worse, but it didn't go away entirely with the XBR. For some reason few weeks ago, the whine skyrocketed and I was forced to put my PC in an awkward place in my room, just so I can minimize the sound coming from it.

I really can't be that unlucky to have a second board in row that emits the same noise, so I was wondering, is it possible for PSU to be sort of incompatible with certain configs and cause them to coil whine ?

Also, has ANYONE had any coil whining issue with their Athlon setup ?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I have a question guys. Can a PSU affect coil whine in motherboard ? I have XBR and I still have some coil whine, that really kicks in when overclocking. I had a lower quality gigabyte board before, and coil whine was slightly worse, but it didn't go away entirely with the XBR. For some reason few weeks ago, the whine skyrocketed and I was forced to put my PC in an awkward place in my room, just so I can minimize the sound coming from it.
> 
> I really can't be that unlucky to have a second board in row that emits the same noise, so I was wondering, is it possible for PSU to be sort of incompatible with certain configs and cause them to coil whine ?
> 
> Also, has ANYONE had any coil whining issue with their Athlon setup ?


Yes, it definitely can. The PSU you have listed in your build (if that is the one you're still using) wasn't very good when it came out 5 years ago and I'm sure time has not improved it any.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yes, it definitely can. The PSU you have listed in your build (if that is the one you're still using) wasn't very good when it came out 5 years ago and I'm sure time has not improved it any.


PSU was the only part of my config I haven't researched myself. I figured I'll buy one of the most expensive PSU's in the store, and it even came with recommendation from the sellers (they seem to have a huge hard-on for FSP products).

May I ask, what kind of PSU are you using ?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> PSU was the only part of my config I haven't researched myself. I figured I'll buy one of the most expensive PSU's in the store, and it even came with recommendation from the sellers (they seem to have a huge hard-on for FSP products).
> 
> May I ask, what kind of PSU are you using ?


There are lots of good FSP power supplies, that particular model is quite old and while not dangerous to your system was pretty mediocre as far as voltage regulation and ripple. Right now I'm using a Corsair RM850i in my Skylake build, a Rosewill Hive 550W in my 860K machine and an Antec VP630 in my 7700k rig.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> There are lots of good FSP power supplies, that particular model is quite old and while not dangerous to your system was pretty mediocre as far as voltage regulation and ripple. Right now I'm using a Corsair RM850i in my Skylake build, a Rosewill Hive 550W in my 860K machine and an Antec VP630 in my 7700k rig.


As I'm very cautious about picking the right PSU now, I will go with something you or someone other here has, thats confirmed to not coil whine.

So far, the closest one I can find that resembles the one in your AMD system, is ANTEC VP600P. I don't have a great selection of PSUs in my country. That PSU is, when converting to US $, about 62$.

I would appreciate some more examples of nice PSUs in other Athlon systems from you guys. I would really like to have a normal overclocked system without hurting my ears.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> As I'm very cautious about picking the right PSU now, I will go with something you or someone other here has, thats confirmed to not coil whine.
> 
> So far, the closest one I can find that resembles the one in your AMD system, is ANTEC VP600P. I don't have a great selection of PSUs in my country. That PSU is, when converting to US $, about 62$.
> 
> I would appreciate some more examples of nice PSUs in other Athlon systems from you guys. I would really like to have a normal overclocked system without hurting my ears.


Are you ordering from a web store, or does the shop have a website you can link us so we could give suggestions?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Are you ordering from a web store, or does the shop have a website you can link us so we could give suggestions?


The store I bought my current PSU from is pretty much all FSP, with newer more expensive models mostly, so I won't be doing my shopping there.

http://www.olx.ba/ This site is like amazon for my country. It has best offers and prices than anything here.

http://genelec.ba/napojne-jedinicec-196 This link is an alternate PC hardware shop, they have some nice CM PSU's (I think), but it's very pricey.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> The store I bought my current PSU from is pretty much all FSP, with newer more expensive models mostly, so I won't be doing my shopping there.
> 
> http://www.olx.ba/ This site is like amazon for my country. It has best offers and prices than anything here.
> 
> http://genelec.ba/napojne-jedinicec-196 This link is an alternate PC hardware shop, they have some nice CM PSU's (I think), but it's very pricey.


What country is this so I can figure out the conversions? Also, what would your budget be?


----------



## DannyDK

Is a Be Quiet Pure Power L8-700W 700Watt 80 PLUS Bronze better than a Corsair CS750M 700Watt 80+ Gold when it comes to overclocking?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> What country is this so I can figure out the conversions? Also, what would your budget be?


It's Bosnia and Herzegovina. Here is the link to conversion.

My budget would be around 70$. Currently I'm looking mostly at used PSU's, as those that are new and from top three tiers (according to this PSU tier list) are waay too expensive for me.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> It's Bosnia and Herzegovina. Here is the link to conversion.
> 
> My budget would be around 70$. Currently I'm looking mostly at used PSU's, as those that are new and from top three tiers (according to this PSU tier list) are waay too expensive for me.


Ok so I had it right, was just double checking. Yeah prices are quite high there. I'm having a hard time sorting through that site, but I would highly suggest you make a thread in the power supply section and ask, there are several people there that can get you good advice.


----------



## Scorpion49

Is anyone interested with an apples to apples single-rank vs dual-rank memory test specific to the 860K and not an APU with integrated graphics in use? I found that Kingston sells a set of the HyperX I have that is identical in every way (timings, sub-timings, etc) but is a dual-rank 16GB kit instead of a single-rank 8GB kit. I ordered it already, should be here tomorrow. If anyone knows of good tests to run for this let me know.


----------



## Himo5

All my PSUs are Seasonic KM3 Golds so that my cable sets are interchangeable but I can get them under different badges with lower prices, such as the XFX Pro Black Edition. The place to go to find out who makes whose PSUs is RealHardTechX.


----------



## Jack13

I have a SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W that has served me very well. Quiet as a church mouse. It feeds my o.c., a power hungry R9 290x (also overclocked), 5 140 mm fans, & 5 spinning HD's . Never had a single issue.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151096


----------



## Scorpion49

Alright, time for a new problem. My 860k is getting cores 2 and 3 stuck at idle. From the time I boot the computer they both stick at 1700mhz and don't move, unless I go into AMD overdrive in Windows and change the multiplier, and then it will stay at what I set it until I reboot, at which time it is back to being stuck at 1700mhz. Anyone else experience this? Its currently in the UP4, even does it with everything at automatic default settings.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Alright, time for a new problem. My 860k is getting cores 2 and 3 stuck at idle. From the time I boot the computer they both stick at 1700mhz and don't move, unless I go into AMD overdrive in Windows and change the multiplier, and then it will stay at what I set it until I reboot, at which time it is back to being stuck at 1700mhz. Anyone else experience this? Its currently in the UP4, even does it with everything at automatic default settings.


Thats strange, never would have thought it happens. Have you tried re-enabling CnQ and C6 ?

On a side note, thanx for the advice on PSU. In the end I bought ANTEC TPN 550W and my coil whining problem is GONE. Did some overclocking today and it appears my CPU comes in second place in "worst overclocker" category, right after your replacement one.

4.1Ghz @ 1.48v just to not have random watchdog_bsod errors, BUT, my LLC settings are all at 0% currently, so I will try to squeeze out some more with LLC tinkering these days.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Thats strange, never would have thought it happens. Have you tried re-enabling CnQ and C6 ?
> 
> On a side note, thanx for the advice on PSU. In the end I bought ANTEC TPN 550W and my coil whining problem is GONE. Did some overclocking today and it appears my CPU comes in second place in "worst overclocker" category, right after your replacement one.
> 
> 4.1Ghz @ 1.48v just to not have random watchdog_bsod errors, BUT, my LLC settings are all at 0% currently, so I will try to squeeze out some more with LLC tinkering these days.


I've seen throttling like this with FX CPU's when they weren't stable, one core will drop off to idle and never come back. But only under stress, I've never seen it happen like this is. Very strange. I put AIDA64 stress test on after using AOD to set it back to my original clock speed and after 1.5 hours the two cores were back at 1700mhz. Something must be unstable but I don't know what, nothing shows up in the WHEA logs either.

Also, glad to hear the PSU solved your problem. Your other one wouldn't cause any damage I don't think but it was not the best you could have had. Now you can keep it as a spare.

EDIT: I fixed it, forgot they sent me a new board flashed with F7 Godavari BIOS, flashed back to F6 and it seems to be fine now.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I've seen throttling like this with FX CPU's when they weren't stable, one core will drop off to idle and never come back. But only under stress, I've never seen it happen like this is. Very strange. I put AIDA64 stress test on after using AOD to set it back to my original clock speed and after 1.5 hours the two cores were back at 1700mhz. Something must be unstable but I don't know what, nothing shows up in the WHEA logs either.
> 
> Also, glad to hear the PSU solved your problem. Your other one wouldn't cause any damage I don't think but it was not the best you could have had. Now you can keep it as a spare.
> 
> EDIT: I fixed it, forgot they sent me a new board flashed with F7 Godavari BIOS, flashed back to F6 and it seems to be fine now.


LOL, so much for my thoughts about trying out the new bios... Glad the solution to your problem was easy.


----------



## Scorpion49

Ok, so here we go. People were unhappy when I suggested that the dual-rank business doesn't really have much of an effect on the 860K (in contrast to the article showing an APU with an iGPU showing some significant gains). So, in the name of science I've done some testing.

*Test setup:*

- Athlon 860k running at stock
- Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 (F6 BIOS)
- Zotac GTX 950 AMP! (1404mhz boost clock)
- OCZ Arc 100 240GB SSD
- Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
- Rosewill Hive 550W PSU

*Memory:*
- 1 single rank kit 2x4GB Kingston HyperX (Model number HX318C9SRK2/8)
- 1 dual rank kit 2x4GB Mushkin Redline (Model number 996996FR)

I've used a selection of tests that were easy to get a hold of, including the typically touted AIDA64 to prove the bandwidth difference. Yes, I actually spent $40 on AIDA64 for this. For the purposes of testing, both kits have been run at equivalent settings. Unfortunately, I ran the Kingston kit first and it was able to run at CR1, and the Mushkin kit was having nothing to do with that. CR2 or bust. I ended up having to go back and re-do all of the Kingston results at CR2, so the final settings were standard JEDEC 1600mhz 11-11-11-28, 2T, 1.5V. Sub-timings had minor differences but I wasn't going to fight stability to have them be identical.

*Kingtson single-rank proof:*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Mushkin dual-rank proof:*



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*AIDA64 bandwidth test*


Spoiler: Warning: Single Rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







So we can see here that there is a slight advantage to the dual-rank kit, nothing really to write home about though (if you want to see a gap, try this vs any Intel chip in the past 5 years).

*Cinebench 15*


Spoiler: Warning: Single Rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







No discernible difference here.

*Cinebench 11*


Spoiler: Warning: Single Rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







Same as CB15, CB11 doesn't really show us anything new.

*SuperPI*


Spoiler: Warning: Single rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







SuperPI shows a little bit of a gain for the dual rank kit, but again a tiny margin.

*3Dmark Firestrike*


Spoiler: Warning: Single Rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







Nothing here.

*Heavensward Bench*


Spoiler: Warning: Single Rank









Spoiler: Warning: Dual Rank







Pretty close the the same result, this bench is fairly variable but it still shows a tiny gain for the dual rank kit.

*Conclusion*

There seems to be a tiny gain overall using the dual-rank kit at the same settings ( I did several more tests but it shows the same thing over and over and I'm tired of uploading pictures at this point). If you're buying fresh RAM specifically for this purpose it can't hurt, but I wouldn't beat myself up trying to track down and verify the nature of the kit. With scores this close, the fastest/lowest latency kit you can afford is the best bet. A 2400mhz 8GB single rank kit is going to stomp the hell out of a 16GB 1866mhz dual-rank kit performance-wise, so if you're looking to extract every last fps out of an 860k thats the way I would go.


----------



## Jack13

Thanks for the effort! I still want to put our not so great spare 860's in comparison test where all other components and settings are equal. Someday when I actually have a little time...hopefully not too soon, though. If I'm busy, I'm making money so I can afford to buy the parts that I won't have time to play with. If I'm not busy, I have the time but no parts. Damned vicious circle...


----------



## Himo5

If your Dimms don't actually show how they are ranked this looks like the only reliable way of finding out.

You need a SPD reader such as RW-Read&Write to read Byte 07 of your Dimm's SPD and then you take the number of ranks from Bits 3-5 and add 1.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> If your Dimms don't actually show how they are ranked this looks like the only reliable way of finding out.
> 
> You need a SPD reader such as RW-Read&Write to read Byte 07 of your Dimm's SPD and then you take the number of ranks (base 1) from Bits 3-5.


There's a fairly significant handicap to having single ranked ram as measured by Aida 64 on my Vishera platforms.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> There's a fairly significant handicap to having single ranked ram as measured by Aida 64 on my Vishera platforms.


Sorry, the image you quoted misreads the SPD.

Rank number is given minus one and not, as I originally assumed, from Base 1.

I've corrected the image in that post, which now interprets 001 as Dual Rank.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> If your Dimms don't actually show how they are ranked this looks like the only reliable way of finding out


AIDA64 reads it just fine, even the trial version. It tells you the number of ranks/banks per module. The problem isn't reading ones you've got, its finding out which ones are which before you buy them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> There's a fairly significant handicap to having single ranked ram as measured by Aida 64 on my Vishera platforms.


The same thing happens to steamroller obviously, but like I said in the past it doesn't translate into much of anything in real world usage. APU's using the system memory for GPU seem to be the big exception where even a small increase in memory subsystem performance has a large impact.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> The same thing happens to steamroller obviously, but like I said in the past it doesn't translate into much of anything in real world usage. APU's using the system memory for GPU seem to be the big exception where even a small increase in memory subsystem performance has a large impact.


I agree. The APUs do rely on RAM's own performance for the graphics part, but on real world, AIDA and Co are almost irrelevant. Here's visual proof (one may read this and the following page):

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=853&Itemid=67&limit=1&limitstart=3

For those who are bored, here's the final "juice":
Quote:


> Still, as our tests have shown, *there's little real world difference between various memory kits, even when the speeds and timings are dramatically different.* This is *because modern processors contain megabytes of cache memory* (15MB in the case of the Core i7-3960X I used), and thus most memory requests will be satisfied from the cache, without accessing main memory at all, and even low-end CPUs these days typically have 2-4M or more of cache. *Continuous accessing of system memory is simply quite rare in "real world" applications, while synthetic benchmarks are designed to do just that*...which is why you see memory performance differences in these benchmarks, and not in applications. *Enthusiasts should remember that having enough memory is much more important than having fast memory,* and take advantage of current low prices.


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> AIDA64 reads it just fine, even the trial version. It tells you the number of ranks/banks per module. The problem isn't reading ones you've got, its finding out which ones are which before you buy them.
> The same thing happens to steamroller obviously, but like I said in the past it doesn't translate into much of anything in real world usage. APU's using the system memory for GPU seem to be the big exception where even a small increase in memory subsystem performance has a large impact.


My 30 days were up a long time ago.


----------



## drmrlordx

Thanks for the testing Scorpion. I haven't used a single-rank kit before, or otherwise I would have done the same myself on some non-GPU dependent tests. So it looks like the single-rank kit loses by a little, but certainly not by all that much. Interesting.


----------



## The Stilt

Now repeat the same test on APU









SR 1866MHz should equal 1600MHz DR or SR 2400MHz, DR 2133MHz in 3DMarks or games.

The bandwidth beyond 1600MHz / 25.6GBs is pretty irrelevant anyway on pure CPUs.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Now repeat the same test on APU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SR 1866MHz should equal 1600MHz DR or SR 2400MHz, DR 2133MHz in 3DMarks or games.
> 
> The bandwidth beyond 1600MHz / 25.6GBs is pretty irrelevant anyway on pure CPUs.


Yes, it makes a big difference on my 7700k. Thats where the Mushkin DR kit came from


----------



## DannyDK

How much extra bandwidth do you get with a 2400mhz DR kit when using the igpu on a 7870K?


----------



## Scorpion49

Interesting thing I noticed, on F6 BIOS my UP4 has noticeable coil noise when moving the mouse, but it does NOT have it with F7 BIOS. I'm wondering if they changed something with the power delivery settings for Godavari? I'm going to have another go at overclocking it with the F6 BIOS now since it was doing poorly on F7.

EDIT: I noticed an immediate difference, I can now boot to windows with 2000mhz NB, I could not even POST with 2000mhz on F7 BIOS.

Double EDIT: 2 hours stable at 4000/2000/1866 with only 1.350V vcore and 1.150V NB. I guess F7 BIOS was completely destroying any hope of an OC with this CPU, I was having to run 1.45V+ for 4ghz before.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Interesting thing I noticed, on F6 BIOS my UP4 has noticeable coil noise when moving the mouse, but it does NOT have it with F7 BIOS. I'm wondering if they changed something with the power delivery settings for Godavari? I'm going to have another go at overclocking it with the F6 BIOS now since it was doing poorly on F7.
> 
> EDIT: I noticed an immediate difference, I can now boot to windows with 2000mhz NB, I could not even POST with 2000mhz on F7 BIOS.
> 
> Double EDIT: 2 hours stable at 4000/2000/1866 with only 1.350V vcore and 1.150V NB. I guess F7 BIOS was completely destroying any hope of an OC with this CPU, I was having to run 1.45V+ for 4ghz before.


I too have the problem with noise when moving the mouse. Few months ago, I used stethoscope to pinpoint where the sound was coming from. It turns out, it's coming directly from CPU!
Different PSU didn't make any difference.

When I change windows power options to "High performance", the noise is constant, until i turn it back to "Balanced" (here it occasionally happens when moving mouse, mostly right after system boot, sometimes even when doing nothing but watching a movie), or when I set it to "Power saver" it doesn't happen AT ALL.

Disabling C6 CPU mode in BIOS also causes the issue to stop completely.

I've read somewhere that a guy was plagued by this problem and he changed every component around, only to discover that the problem doesn't occur when the PC is outside of the case. He swapped the case for another one and voila, the problem stopped. Don't ask me to explain it, but the guy swears thats what happened and that he was an experienced IT guy!


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> How much extra bandwidth do you get with a 2400mhz DR kit when using the igpu on a 7870K?


The performance difference from moving 2133MHz to 2400MHz is worth around 2 GPU CUs








6CU (384SP) GPU with DDR-2400 matches the performance of 8CU (512SP) GPU with DDR-2133








That´s at 720MHz, at higher clocks the 384SP option with 2400MHz DRAM might be faster.

Even at 2400MHz the GPU has less than half the bandwidth it would need for optimal performance.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> The performance difference from moving 2133MHz to 2400MHz is worth around 2 GPU CUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6CU (384SP) GPU with DDR-2400 matches the performance of 8CU (512SP) GPU with DDR-2133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That´s at 720MHz, at higher clocks the 384SP option with 2400MHz DRAM might be faster.
> 
> Even at 2400MHz the GPU has less than half the bandwidth it would need for optimal performance.


Do dual rank help with bandwidth?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Do dual rank help with bandwidth?


In both bandwidth and latency.


----------



## Scorpion49

*sigh* still having problems with this thing and now I know why. I thought Gigabyte sent me a new board, it turns out when I checked the serial number just now its the same one I sent in for a bad memory slot, which explains why it keeps crashing with all 4 DIMM's populated.


----------



## Jack13

I had a couple of bad GB boards in a row. After the total lack of concern on their part I swore them off completly.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I had a couple of bad GB boards in a row. After the total lack of concern on their part I swore them off completly.


Yeah, the problem for me is Windows keys. I have the Asus board but it has a 7700k in it, I don't want to mess around with trying to swap the boards permanently right now


----------



## Fckbutton

Hello folks. I'm wondering if anyone here could give me some recommendations?
I'm going to make a new build with the 860k purely for gaming. I will be running it with a R9 380 4GB and a EVGA 550W G2 in a Corsair 350D case (mATX).
Can anyone here recommend me a solid mATX mobo that will work with the 860k without any BIOS updates, and that also runs well on Windows 10? I'm planning on doing some light OC'ing aswell if possible. I'm looking at the Asus a88xm-plus which seems to support win 10, but I can't seem to find out which BIOS version it ships with...


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fckbutton*
> 
> Hello folks. I'm wondering if anyone here could give me some recommendations?
> I'm going to make a new build with the 860k purely for gaming. I will be running it with a R9 380 4GB and a EVGA 550W G2 in a Corsair 350D case (mATX).
> Can anyone here recommend me a solid mATX mobo that will work with the 860k without any BIOS updates, and that also runs well on Windows 10? I'm planning on doing some light OC'ing aswell if possible. I'm looking at the Asus a88xm-plus which seems to support win 10, but I can't seem to find out which BIOS version it ships with...


I'll be honest, the only mATX board I would use for an FM2+ is the MSI gaming one if I wasn't on a super strict budget. Any board on the shelf now should have a BIOS that supports Kaveri though, they've been out for over a year.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fckbutton*
> 
> Hello folks. I'm wondering if anyone here could give me some recommendations?
> I'm going to make a new build with the 860k purely for gaming. I will be running it with a R9 380 4GB and a EVGA 550W G2 in a Corsair 350D case (mATX).
> Can anyone here recommend me a solid mATX mobo that will work with the 860k without any BIOS updates, and that also runs well on Windows 10? I'm planning on doing some light OC'ing aswell if possible. I'm looking at the Asus a88xm-plus which seems to support win 10, but I can't seem to find out which BIOS version it ships with...


I use that Asus board with my 7870k and it works fine with Win 10


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fckbutton*
> 
> Hello folks. I'm wondering if anyone here could give me some recommendations?
> I'm going to make a new build with the 860k purely for gaming. I will be running it with a R9 380 4GB and a EVGA 550W G2 in a Corsair 350D case (mATX).
> Can anyone here recommend me a solid mATX mobo that will work with the 860k without any BIOS updates, and that also runs well on Windows 10? I'm planning on doing some light OC'ing aswell if possible. I'm looking at the Asus a88xm-plus which seems to support win 10, but I can't seem to find out which BIOS version it ships with...


When 860k has come out I bought Asus A88-gamer which was one of very few mobos supporting that cpu straight from the box. Also supports 2400MHz ram and crossfire(i ran 2x msi r9 2700x). Has great audio SupremeFX, great for overclocking. Absolutely no problem with drivers or compatibility, I've moved to Intel and MSI gaming mobo and this is giving me some serious headache, bios issues, incompatibility with vga(MSI as well btw!!!), drivers/apps not installing properly etc. I already miss Asus as it was a really smooth experience, absolutely no problems at all, everything working straight from the box.
My 8 mths old Asus A88x-gamer(still with warranty and receipt) is for sale(as well as my 860k)btw if anyone wants it
Bottom line: go with Asus.


----------



## coffeerox

With weather starting to get colder, I decided to take a shot at 4.3 and 4.4. I managed to get 4.3ghz stable at 1.5v. Thermal margin was around 17-18 but when I ran Batman AK, the numbers were completely safe so I'd call that a success. I know that 1.5 isn't the number I got it stable last time, so I might be over by .03. I bumped it to 4.4 and unfortunately was not stable. I'm unwilling to go past 1.5v so I suppose I have to accept that my max is 4.3.

I've learned some things since I last posted though.

1. My 212 Evo fan started rattling so I enabled Asus Q-Fan, which did silence the rattling (and sound overall). Turns out, I only needed 650~950RPM to cool stock frequency. It was running 1750RPM max speed this entire time and it never needed to. Now I have to replace the fan.

2. By going to Power Management and selecting High Performance, it acts as sort of a "soft OC" and keeps the frequency between 3.9ghz and 4.0ghz. Pretty cool for getting extra juice but don't want to restart to do it.

3. I've been running stock freq with cooling/power saving settings w/o that nasty default settings overvoltage. When I did it the first time (I posted about it sometime in the summer), it didn't work b/c I had the wrong sign selected. Oops lol! So what you do is under Offset Voltage, press + to get it to 0.00625 but change the sign from + to -. Now, it'll slightly undervolt but will still be stable


----------



## VordaVor

Can a CPU-NB overclock affect CPU multiplier OC ?

Few months ago, I overclocked my NB by 200 Mhz, not adding any voltage, but just leaving it on auto, which was 1.138v.

Now I'm trying to break 4200Mhz barrier and I find my PC freezing randomly, sometimes during hours of gameplay, sometimes browsing, but most notably, it passes p95 smoothly. I'm wonderind if the freezes are the issue of NB needing more voltage for some reason, because I OC'ed the main part of the CPU.

Also, do any of you touch CPU Current Capability ? I've read on "Overclocking Bulldozer and Piledriver" that using that option is great, but I have just raised mine to 110% for now.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Can a CPU-NB overclock affect CPU multiplier OC ?
> 
> Few months ago, I overclocked my NB by 200 Mhz, not adding any voltage, but just leaving it on auto, which was 1.138v.
> 
> Now I'm trying to break 4200Mhz barrier and I find my PC freezing randomly, sometimes during hours of gameplay, sometimes browsing, but most notably, it passes p95 smoothly. I'm wonderind if the freezes are the issue of NB needing more voltage for some reason, because I OC'ed the main part of the CPU.
> 
> Also, do any of you touch CPU Current Capability ? I've read on "Overclocking Bulldozer and Piledriver" that using that option is great, but I have just raised mine to 110% for now.


2000mhz NB can be very difficult to get stable on some boards. When I had an XBR I could not for the life of me get 2000mhz NB, my A88X-Pro will do it and the Gigabyte UP4 tops out at 1900mhz and even then has some stability issues there. I tend to leave it at 1800 unless I'm benching.


----------



## VordaVor

Well, on the positive side, I think NB was the cause of my freezings when OC-ing the multiplier. 2000 @ 1.14V, my PC worked for half a day before it froze. Thats much longer than it did last night, so I'm guessing that bumping offset once on the NB did the trick.

Now I'm at 1.15V and time will tell if this truly is the solution to my issue. Need to give it time though, as stress testing doesn't produce the freeze, even after few hours, but casual using PC (today it froze in VLC) seems to be the only method of testing for me.

Edit: Never mind what I said above, NB wasn't the cause of my freezes. I have a crappy chip which needs more than 1.43V to stay stable at 4100Mhz. LOL

I'm back on 1.13V at 2000Mhz NB and its working fine. At least this part of my chip does well.

Very interesting though, is that my PC froze 2 times in a row while using seek function on VLC player. Funny thing is that it passed hours of stress testing in prime95 before that.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Can a CPU-NB overclock affect CPU multiplier OC ?


I'm unsure. I don't touch it tbh
Quote:


> Also, do any of you touch CPU Current Capability ? I've read on "Overclocking Bulldozer and Piledriver" that using that option is great, but I have just raised mine to 110% for now.


Yes, for 4.2 and 4.3, I have it set to 130/120% and maxed out for 4.3.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I'm unsure. I don't touch it tbh
> Yes, for 4.2 and 4.3, I have it set to 130/120% and maxed out for 4.3.


Apparently NB doesn't affect it, it was just the rest of my crappy chip which won't stay stable on 4100Mhz at 1.43v... Gonna be pain to keep it at 4200...


----------



## Scorpion49

It really makes me wonder how Steamroller has such poor overclocking performance compared to Vishera. We're barely getting 100-200mhz over turbo clocks here.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> It really makes me wonder how Steamroller has such poor overclocking performance compared to Vishera. We're barely getting 100-200mhz over turbo clocks here.


I wonder whats the average ratio on bad vs good overclocking chips on this one. I really thought I would go 4.5Ghz with mine, and with this motherboard...

One thing I noticed though, at least on this board, my CPU never hit 4000Mhz on turbo. It always seems to top at 3900 for some reason.
After turning off turbo mode and OCing to 4100, I noticed an immediate improvement in my system startup, and general responsiveness of windows. That really helped the chip, even though it doesn't look like much.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I wonder whats the average ratio on bad vs good overclocking chips on this one. I really thought I would go 4.5Ghz with mine, and with this motherboard...
> 
> One thing I noticed though, at least on this board, my CPU never hit 4000Mhz on turbo. It always seems to top at 3900 for some reason.
> After turning off turbo mode and OCing to 4100, I noticed an immediate improvement in my system startup, and general responsiveness of windows. That really helped the chip, even though it doesn't look like much.


Personally, I've owned 6 Kaveri chips of varying description at this point and only one of them would do over 4200mhz stable. That was my other 860k and it would do 4.8ghz with the right cooling, it might have gone 5.0 if I delidded it. I've had many, many more FX 6/8 series chips and all of them would do 4.6+ and most of them would do 5ghz with little effort besides cooling the VRM/socket area on the motherboard.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Personally, I've owned 6 Kaveri chips of varying description at this point and only one of them would do over 4200mhz stable. That was my other 860k and it would do 4.8ghz with the right cooling, it might have gone 5.0 if I delidded it. I've had many, many more FX 6/8 series chips and all of them would do 4.6+ and most of them would do 5ghz with little effort besides cooling the VRM/socket area on the motherboard.


Wow man, thats awesome. Too bad about the accident with your golden 860k though :/

If most 880k get within spitting distance of 5 Ghz, I will insta-buy one. Hell, if they can get to 4.6 with decent voltage, I have nothing to lose, this socket is dead anyway and I want the best possible chip for this overkill mobo.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Wow man, thats awesome. Too bad about the accident with your golden 860k though :/
> 
> If most 880k get within spitting distance of 5 Ghz, I will insta-buy one. Hell, if they can get to 4.6 with decent voltage, I have nothing to lose, this socket is dead anyway and I want the best possible chip for this overkill mobo.


Yeah, I'll buy an 880k day one regardless, it isn't like it can be _*worse*_ than the chip I have now, its base clock is the same as what I'm barely able to overclock to. I wonder if they're going to release them or just sit on it like the 870k.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, I'll buy an 880k day one regardless, it isn't like it can be _*worse*_ than the chip I have now, its base clock is the same as what I'm barely able to overclock to. I wonder if they're going to release them or just sit on it like the 870k.


Like I've read somewhere, they are probably waiting for enough Godavari chips with bad igpu to collect to finish converting them to Athlons. Hope it will be before next year. In my country that means few months later after initial release. Can't wait.


----------



## Scorpion49

Sometimes I'm really glad AMD chipsets are so generic across a platform, Windows 7 didn't seem to notice that I swapped out the UP4 for the Asus A88X-Pro when I re-activated it lol.


----------



## VordaVor

Same here. When I swapped GA-F2A88XM-DS2 (one of the cheapest A88X boards) for Crossblade Ranger, my Win8 gave me no problem at all.

Btw, I'm enjoying Witcher 3 on my PC a lot. I runs very smoothly, average 44 FPS, medim postprocessing, medium-high details graphics @ 1600x900 resolution. Of course, I can get it above 50, but I don't want to sacrifice the eye candy, as there is no reason, for how smoothly it runs currently.
Sometimes it dips into 30's for a second, thats probably the CPU part when loading new terrain or something, but other than that, I am really happy with how my config handles the game.


----------



## Scorpion49

Alright, I gotta ask. Does anyone else have problems copying large files to and from USB 3.0 on FM2+ platform? I have numerous USB thumbdrives with stuff for when I re-install windows, and on FM2+ every single time I try to copy files larger than about 2GB the system becomes completely unresponsive after a bit (copying will suddenly stop). Mouse works normally, but even the web browser won't do anything until the copying resumes. System configuration/OS seems to have no bearing on it, and it only seems to happen with the native USB 3.0 ports.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Alright, I gotta ask. Does anyone else have problems copying large files to and from USB 3.0 on FM2+ platform? I have numerous USB thumbdrives with stuff for when I re-install windows, and on FM2+ every single time I try to copy files larger than about 2GB the system becomes completely unresponsive after a bit (copying will suddenly stop). Mouse works normally, but even the web browser won't do anything until the copying resumes. System configuration/OS seems to have no bearing on it, and it only seems to happen with the native USB 3.0 ports.


I just tried it on 2 of my USB thumbdrives (one is 3.0 and one is ordinary), on USB 3.0 port on a file 4GB big and had no issues. I also have installed drivers for 3.0 from some AMD install package.


----------



## syl1979

870K in stock in China at 459RMB

http://item.jd.com/2087198.html

It seems to have also improved heatsink (bigger box)


----------



## Jack13

Looks like a step forward for a stock heatsink.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## newguyeverytime

So I fired up Wolfenstein: the new order for the first time. This CPU is giving me some noticeable bottlenecks at 4.3. I'm also wondering about fallout 4, anyone have any insight?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> So I fired up Wolfenstein: the new order for the first time. This CPU is giving me some noticeable bottlenecks at 4.3. I'm also wondering about fallout 4, anyone have any insight?


I get 20-27fps with a 390X at 4.0ghz 1440p. Can't really find any settings that will alleviate it either. Par for the course I guess, this CPU can't do more than 40fps in DA:I and barely manages 40-42 in Armored Warfare.


----------



## drmrlordx

Fallout 4 is currently sucking on AMD GPUs. Gameworks hit hard on this title. Ugh.

Anyway, try turning the God Rays setting down as low as you can get it, and see what happens.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Fallout 4 is currently sucking on AMD GPUs. Gameworks hit hard on this title. Ugh.
> 
> Anyway, try turning the God Rays setting down as low as you can get it, and see what happens.


Settings don't matter, does the same thing with my GTX 950 at 1080p. CPU is at 99% all 4 cores.


----------



## syl1979

We have to recognize that for games heavy on CPU these 860k have their limit. Even if we push it at 4.5Ghz it will just be enough to match a 6 year old core i5 2400 at 3.1Ghz....

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1200?vs=363


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> We have to recognize that for games heavy on CPU these 860k have their limit. Even if we push it at 4.5Ghz it will just be enough to match a 6 year old core i5 2400 at 3.1Ghz....
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1200?vs=363


doesn't really show gaming wise paired with a solid card how it will perform.

Sandy Bridge has a better IPC which is why it wins in so many benchmarks.

I do think at 4.5 GHZ is outdoes the 2400 because higher clock rate helps in alot of games.

3.1 vs 4.5


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> So I fired up Wolfenstein: the new order for the first time. This CPU is giving me some noticeable bottlenecks at 4.3. I'm also wondering about fallout 4, anyone have any insight?


I'm currently playing Fallout 4. It's not the CPU it's the lack of optimization. Also, in Fallout 4, the Nvidia Godrays and Volumetric Lighting do quite a number on your GPU and CPU usage. You have to turn them off completely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Settings don't matter, does the same thing with my GTX 950 at 1080p. CPU is at 99% all 4 cores.


99%?!? I'm getting normal usage and was playing 60FPS at 1080p earlier. What I had to do was screenshot Medium settings, then click the Low preset, manually set the Medium settings and completely disable Godrays. You'll have to go into the .ini to change the setting and not click a preset again (as it resets the .ini).

Btw, Intel CPUs are seeing abnormally high CPU usage as well. The only reason why those are performing better is because of the IPC.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I'm currently playing Fallout 4. It's not the CPU it's the lack of optimization. Also, in Fallout 4, the Nvidia Godrays and Volumetric Lighting do quite a number on your GPU and CPU usage. You have to turn them off completely.
> 99%?!? I'm getting normal usage and was playing 60FPS at 1080p earlier. What I had to do was screenshot Medium settings, then click the Low preset, manually set the Medium settings and completely disable Godrays. You'll have to go into the .ini to change the setting and not click a preset again (as it resets the .ini).


Man, trust me. I've ben trying, holy crap have I been trying to get this game to run. I have about 16 hours of troubleshooting it logged compared to 71 minutes of actual play time. Switching to the GTX 950 fixed many of the problems like te horrible mouse lag in the menu regardless of smoothing/fps lock/mouse acceleration changes in the .ini file. I've read every guide and complaint thread out there three times, when I left for work today I started it downloading on my i5-760 Lynnfield machine and see if that acts any differently.


----------



## dlee7283

saw this on youtube

Step by step guide to achieving highest performance:

1. Update your graphic card driver, choose your driver from the list below:
- AMD driver autodetect: http://support.amd.com/en-us/download...
- Intel Driver update: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support
- Nvidia Driver autodetect: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.a... (requires java, open in internet explorer)

2. Set your drivers to performance using your graphic card control panel, heres how mine looks: (Intel) http://i.imgur.com/ZLEtcjo.png

3. Setting the Fallout.exe to compatibility mode and set to windows 7. This allows you to scale the resolution down to 1280x720, or lower if necessary. To drop resolution below 720p, switch to windowed and borderless mode. http://i.imgur.com/AqxDdSb.png

4. Lower all of the settings on the graphics menu so they match this. Adjust your resolution to 1280x720 under the resolution tab. http://i.imgur.com/vFBrBcQ.png, http://i.imgur.com/rn5rjxQ.png

5. Download BOTH custom performance INI documents: (these settings reduce shadow resolution, take out some dynamic lighting and bring the render distance closer taking up less memory.)
- Fallout4.ini: http://www.mediafire.com/view/goh8cua...
- Fallout4prefs.ini: http://www.mediafire.com/view/yi4szi8...

6. Drag the downloaded documents into the folder where the ini's are located. http://i.imgur.com/KzjgdCh.png. (If these ini's give you any problem's just delete them from the ini folder and when you start the game new one's will automatically be acquired.)

7. Using https://bitsum.com/processlasso/, set Fallout4.exe to high priority, along with setting it to gaming mode. This will help allocate your CPU and RAM more efficiently. http://imgur.com/8wjJ9TP. (The game MUST be running to enable these settings on the .exe, Alt+Tab out of the game and then right click on it.)

8. If you want to measure your framerate download http://exkode.com/dxtory-downloads-en.... It is a lighter version of fraps and the framerate counter is free. This may induce crashes, disable if you have a problem starting the game while dxtory is open. (I haven't had a problem though.)

Make sure FXAA is turned off, SSAO is turned off and rain occulusion is turned off. (These are ON by default on LOW settings!)

Is your game crashing? Common causes: Out of date drivers, incompatible direct x versions (older hardware), windows 8/8.1 can cause crashes on start. Changing resolutions can also cause the game to crash at launch, Bestheda needs to patch resolution support. Reset to 1080 if you cannot get game to launch in lower res. Before troubleshooting try restarting your PC and make fallout the first program you open.

I cannot get my game to work no matter what I try, what should I do?
- You're not alone, http://store.steampowered.com/app/377..., sorting reviews by recent about 1/5 reviews are having crashes and launch problems. It is a known issue with the game so far, we will have to wait for a patch. Make your voice heard by giving negative reviews and post to the official Bestheda support forum here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/322-pc/

Hardware:
GPU: Intel HD 4600 series
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4670K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Memory: 8.00 GB RAM (7.95 GB usable)
Current resolution: 1920 x 1080, 60Hz
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

GTX 780 went out so playing around with some low settings while I wait for a new card


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> is Fallout 4 a console port?
> 
> also is there any info for frames at 720p high/ultra?


No its just a typical Bethesda launch. Did you try to use anything AMD on Skyrim when it came out? Same exact things back then, except it was worse because the game only handled one thread in 32-bit mode. FO4 seems to work fine with 4+ threads and is native 64-bit.


----------



## coffeerox

Hmm. I don't really know what to say. I've played the game both at stock clock and 4.2/4.3ghz. I have it installed to my SSD which has 545/430 read/write and running on 2133 RAM. I also use a controller so I'm not subject to any of the mouse problems. I still get huge drops from time to time. Diamond City is the most observable one (although with Godrays off it's not that bad) but other than that it seems like some random areas drop for no reason.


----------



## tone1492

I've put close to 500 hrs in Borderlands 2, a known CPU intensive, moderately optimized game and my 860K bottlenecks at 4.3, basically getting the same performance at 1080p as 1440p. I can get upwards of 120 fps in some areas with a GTX 960, but I get drops under 40 in other areas. My friend has an i5 4690K with the same GPU and the game runs much better. I also have another friend with 860k and he says he's having nasty drops and other issues with Fallout 4. He has an R9 280 GPU.

From the videos and testing I've seen and read Fallout 4 seems to really love multi threaded CPUs like i7s and even have heard good feedback from ppl with overclocked FX 8320s and 8350s. The days when you only needed 4 threads for gaming could be coming to an end very soon. IDK though let's see what future patches and driver updates can do.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> doesn't really show gaming wise paired with a solid card how it will perform.
> 
> Sandy Bridge has a better IPC which is why it wins in so many benchmarks.
> 
> I do think at 4.5 GHZ is outdoes the 2400 because higher clock rate helps in alot of games.
> 
> 3.1 vs 4.5


The Math is simple : in multicore cinebench
7850K/860K at 4.5Ghz should get around 14027*4.5/3.7 = 17060 points
i5 2400= 19179 points

The lower IPC stays even if you push the frequency


----------



## coffeerox

Fallout 4

4.2Ghz
270X Toxic
1600x900

*Ultra*
Diamond City
Min: 24
Max: 62
Avg: 48.927

Sanctuary
Min: 33
Max: 62
Avg: 48.930

*High*:
Diamond City
Min: 25
Max: 62
Avg: 49.017

Sanctuary
Min: 36
Max: 62
Avg: 52.243

*Medium*:
Diamond City
Min: 35
Max: 62
Avg: 51.276

Sanctuary
Min: 44
Max: 62
Avg: 59.024

*Low:*
Diamond City:
Min: 41
Max: 62
Avg: 53.721

Sanctuary:
Min: 45
Max: 62
Avg: 59.072

Had to do it in 1600x900 b/c the game kept crashing when I selected 1920x1080 (I'm using VSR btw). 1080P does work on my TV however so I'll do some benchmarks soon


----------



## coffeerox

Hmm that's odd. I was optimizing the High preset to get it closer to Medium numbers and apart from dropping shadows, FPS was not budging compared to original numbers. I think the culprit here is View Distance. It's not my GPU that's the limiter but the CPU. GPU usage hovers around 66-74% so there's plenty of horsepower left but the CPU cannot prepare the scene fast enough for higher FPS. My suspicion is that if I set the game to Medium, but copy the effects from High, I should be able to get higher FPS. My theory is that Medium gets the FPS as it does (even on 1080p) simply due to View Distance.

edit:
meh. Min/Max went up 2 frames and Sanctuary avg went up 2 frames. Just gonna chalk it up to IPC. It's one of *those* games. Not all games are like this obviously but sucks that one of the most anticipated games is.


----------



## Scorpion49

Alright, the i5-760 gets much better frame rates, seems to average 60-62 so something is wrong because the 860K should be faster. I might just remove the entire game and start again.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Alright, the i5-760 gets much better frame rates, seems to average 60-62 so something is wrong because the 860K should be faster. I might just remove the entire game and start again.


Sounds like this is the classic AMD tax where the AMD hardware performs worse for no apparent reason.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Sounds like this is the classic AMD tax where the AMD hardware performs worse for no apparent reason.


Looking at some more of the review data, it seems like memory bandwidth is causing huge improvements in FO4, even Intel chips like the 4790k are showing massive improvements going from 1333 to 2133. Unfortunately, lots of memory bandwidth isn't something Kaveri or any AMD chip really has a lot of. I wonder what is causing that to have such a big impact.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Looking at some more of the review data, it seems like memory bandwidth is causing huge improvements in FO4, even Intel chips like the 4790k are showing massive improvements going from 1333 to 2133. Unfortunately, lots of memory bandwidth isn't something Kaveri or any AMD chip really has a lot of. I wonder what is causing that to have such a big impact.


I did read an article about that. It's possible that they didn't optimize for memory bandwidth on the PC version and left things as they were. Consoles have a ton of memory bandwidth. PS4 alone has 176GB/s.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I did read an article about that. It's possible that they didn't optimize for memory bandwidth on the PC version and left things as they were. Consoles have a ton of memory bandwidth. PS4 alone has 176GB/s.


Yeah, that could be it. Looking at my Lynnfield CPU, its running 2333mhz CL9 sticks (an old 4x2GB kit) and has about 50% more memory bandwidth than my 860k running 1866 CL9. There seems to be some kind of tripping point in there where everything starts running nicely, you can see it in reviews as well when they run artificially low clock speeds on the CPU, the frame rate drops way more than you would expect. I might try moving some of the faster RAM into the Athlon machine and see how it does then.

Regardless, if its bandwidth it wants, thats what it'll get. New toys finally arrived:


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, that could be it. Looking at my Lynnfield CPU, its running 2333mhz CL9 sticks (an old 4x2GB kit) and has about 50% more memory bandwidth than my 860k running 1866 CL9. There seems to be some kind of tripping point in there where everything starts running nicely, you can see it in reviews as well when they run artificially low clock speeds on the CPU, the frame rate drops way more than you would expect. I might try moving some of the faster RAM into the Athlon machine and see how it does then.


I have 2x4GB 2400Mhz dual rank TridentX RAM and my NB is at 2000Mhz. I will test Fallout 4 when I download it and report results here.


----------



## coffeerox

@Scorpion49: that's awesome lol congrats!


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I have 2x4GB 2400Mhz dual rank TridentX RAM and my NB is at 2000Mhz. I will test Fallout 4 when I download it and report results here.


That would be great, I can't do 2000mhz NB. I did move over to my 2133mhz kit and it seemed to pick up 3-5 fps. I think you'll have even better success.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> @Scorpion49: that's awesome lol congrats!


Yeah I got tired of Z170 already so I sold the 6600k and Z170 Deluxe and got me a nice 5930k. Currently fighting the m.2 drive and installing Windows 7.


----------



## coffeerox

When you guys do your benchmark runs, I suggest using this:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/102/?

I did see an improvement going from w/o it to with it. First, pick the preset you want, click OK and exit the Launcher. Then start the tool, uncheck framerate lock, under performance, enable High CPU Priority, enter a 4 under iNumHWThreads (it seems to think the 860K has 2 cores) and save the changes.

Start CCC (if you're using AMD GPU), under Performance, Enable Frame Rate Control and set it to 62FPS. Navigate to Gaming, and Enable Surface Format Optimization, set Tessellation to AMD Optimized.

Finally, with RadeonPro, Set Vsync to Always On, check Triple Buffering, then under Flip Queue Size, set it to 1.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hmmm, I wonder if upgrading to 2133 (1600 now) ram would do me some good. I'm probably gonna tough it out till Zen though.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Hmmm, I wonder if upgrading to 2133 (1600 now) ram would do me some good. I'm probably gonna tough it out till Zen though.


Few months ago, I did a benchmark comparison in GTA V of 2400Mhz vs 1600Mhz ram speed. My NB was at 2000 for both tests. I gained 6-7 min fps with higher ram speed and 1 on max fps. Maybe this game values that even more.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Few months ago, I did a benchmark comparison in GTA V of 2400Mhz vs 1600Mhz ram speed. My NB was at 2000 for both tests. I gained 6-7 min fps with higher ram speed and 1 on max fps. Maybe this game values that even more.


Higher minimums definitely equate to a smoother gameplay experience. I saw that during the runs I did for Fallout 4 earlier.


----------



## VordaVor

Makes me wonder how fast can Athlon go with some fast L3 cache going on...


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Makes me wonder how fast can Athlon go with some fast L3 cache going on...


eDRAM also...

An Intel engineer said only around 32MB would have probably been enough for Broadwell. If that's all that's really needed then why not put some of it into the APUs in particular?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Hmmm, I wonder if upgrading to 2133 (1600 now) ram would do me some good. I'm probably gonna tough it out till Zen though.


Can you tell me what are the timings on your 1600 kit (dual channel 8GB I presume)? Also, did you OC your CPU NB ?

Tomorrow I'm gonna bench Fallout 4, so I need some numbers to see if going from 1600 to 2400 makes much difference.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Makes me wonder how fast can Athlon go with some fast L3 cache going on...


And that lack of L3 cache is one of it's biggest downfalls. Some games love it, namely Skyrim. Maybe we can assume Fallout 4 is the same being on the same engine and all.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Can you tell me what are the timings on your 1600 kit (dual channel 8GB I presume)? Also, did you OC your CPU NB ?
> 
> Tomorrow I'm gonna bench Fallout 4, so I need some numbers to see if going from 1600 to 2400 makes much difference.


860k 4.3
NB Frequency 1800 mhz (I don't know what this does)
2x4 8 GB 1600 mhz memory
cas latency 9
9-10-24-41

I would love some people here to to benchmark the differences between 1600 and 2133+ memory on CPU heavy games. Such as fallout 4, GTA V, Witcher 3, ect. I have a theory that memory speeds are a big deal with the Athlon from lack of L3 cache.


----------



## coffeerox

I could downclock my memory and see what happens.


----------



## coffeerox

okay so here goes:

4.2Ghz
Diamond City
High Preset

Route: Down the steps to the middle, loop around to the right, turn left, loop around the back to the steps

2133 (11-11-11-30): Min 26, Max: 62, Avg: 49.486
1866 (9-10-9-27): Min: 26, Max: 62, Avg: 49.756
1600 (9-9-9-24): Min: 23, Max: 62, Avg: 47.783
1333 (9-9-9-24): Min: 23, Max: 62, Avg: 45.282


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hmm, a difference, but not as big as I thought.

Edit: Apparently overclocking the northbridge also increases access to memory. Is your north bridge overclocked?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Hmm, a difference, but not as big as I thought.
> 
> Edit: Apparently overclocking the northbridge also increases access to memory. Is your north bridge overclocked?


Nope, it's still on auto. I could go back and do 2000 although does it work for every frequency?


----------



## newguyeverytime

I have no idea how to adjust NB on my A88xm...


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> 2133 (11-11-11-30)


Can you get better timings, like 9-11-10-27?

I am running an 8320E on the 970 chipset. My 2400 RAM runs at 2133 with 9-11-10-27-CR1-39 tRC. I have also been able to run it at 9-11-10-24-CR1 with 36 tRC but I think my numbers may be better with the former timings. I topped the list in Aida for lowest latency with 53.3 ns. I think the first time I ran it I got 52.9. My board (UD3P 2.0) likes to set the tRC value super high (52) so you may want to look at the sub-timings and make sure they're reasonable also. I also beat the Broadwell 5775C slightly for the RAM copy benchmark which was fun. I just started working with subtimings based on some guides. The disappointment is tRFC can't be adjusted lower than 300ns, regardless of what speed I run the RAM at. It must be the board. : (


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> okay so here goes:
> 
> 4.2Ghz
> Diamond City
> High Preset
> 
> Route: Down the steps to the middle, loop around to the right, turn left, loop around the back to the steps
> 
> 2133 (11-11-11-30): Min 26, Max: 62, Avg: 49.486
> 1866 (9-10-9-27): Min: 26, Max: 62, Avg: 49.756
> 1600 (9-9-9-24): Min: 23, Max: 62, Avg: 47.783
> 1333 (9-9-9-24): Min: 23, Max: 62, Avg: 45.282


At high preset, did you touch godray settings ? I read your post about Fallout 4 config tool and followed instructions and the only thing I haven't done is downloaded RadeonPro, as I won't ever use it so I would like to avoid it in this instance too if possible. I set the vsync on in CCC for Fallout only, but it causes massive tearing in game, even if FPS never goes above my refresh rate. Will RadeonPro fix that issue ?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Can you get better timings, like 9-11-10-27?(


I can try. I think I do have a little headroom.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> At high preset, did you touch godray settings ? I read your post about Fallout 4 config tool and followed instructions and the only thing I haven't done is downloaded RadeonPro, as I won't ever use it so I would like to avoid it in this instance too if possible. I set the vsync on in CCC for Fallout only, but it causes massive tearing in game, even if FPS never goes above my refresh rate. Will RadeonPro fix that issue ?


Nope, I didn't touch Godray settings. On High it's already lowered a little. As for Vsync, forcing Vsync on in CCC doesn't work, at least, not for Fallout. That's why RadeonPro is needed. Actually, you could take the settings I recommended in that post and do it all in RadeonPro.

Oh, btw you do have a Radeon GPU right?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Nope, I didn't touch Godray settings. On High it's already lowered a little. As for Vsync, forcing Vsync on in CCC doesn't work, at least, not for Fallout. That's why RadeonPro is needed. Actually, you could take the settings I recommended in that post and do it all in RadeonPro.
> 
> Oh, btw you do have a Radeon GPU right?


Of course, R7260X, its in my sig. I guess I will try RadeonPro. I just don't understand why Fallout by default locks FPS to pitiful 37-38 and doesn't have normal v-sync option like all the other games on planet.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Of course, R7260X, its in my sig. I guess I will try RadeonPro. I just don't understand why Fallout by default locks FPS to pitiful 37-38 and doesn't have normal v-sync option like all the other games on planet.


Yeah, the in-built frame pacer is crap. The game seemingly performs better with it's Vsync off, and framerate manually limited plus forced Vsync. I tried 30FPS just to see if I can match console and sure enough, it does. I guess it's designed to hit 30FPS and from there on is a crap shoot. Thanks a lot Bethesda!


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Makes me wonder how fast can Athlon go with some fast L3 cache going on...


If you could get *fast* L3, it would certainly improve performance. The problem is that AMD has been pretty poor about implementing on-die cache of any kind for years. Their K7's used to barely beat Intel Pentium III's of an older, technologically inferior design, only because AMD's on-die L2 cache had five times the latency of the P3's. They didn't do much better with the K8, and the L3 cache on FX chips is barely faster than good DDR3. The only AMD chips in the last dozen years that weren't severely hobbled by cache performance were the K10.5's, and I suspect that even those could have been better.

You'd never get L3 of any kind, fast, slow, or indifferent, on FM2+ anyway. There's no room for it because of the onboard GPU. The best way to improve performance in that area is to overclock the NB and run the fastest DDR3 you can get to work.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you could get *fast* L3, it would certainly improve performance. The problem is that AMD has been pretty poor about implementing on-die cache of any kind for years. Their K7's used to barely beat Intel Pentium III's of an older, technologically inferior design, only because AMD's on-die L2 cache had five times the latency of the P3's. They didn't do much better with the K8, and the L3 cache on FX chips is barely faster than good DDR3. The only AMD chips in the last dozen years that weren't severely hobbled by cache performance were the K10.5's, and I suspect that even those could have been better.
> 
> You'd never get L3 of any kind, fast, slow, or indifferent, on FM2+ anyway. There's no room for it because of the onboard GPU. The best way to improve performance in that area is to overclock the NB and run the fastest DDR3 you can get to work.


whats a safe overclock NB speed and voltage on a lower end FM2+ board like this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128767


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlee7283*
> 
> whats a safe overclock NB speed and voltage on a lower end FM2+ board like this one
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128767


The power phasing is weak and the VRM's aren't even heatsinked. I don't recommend overclocking an 860K on anything like that, but if you insist on doing it, don't run it much over 1.4v and 4 GHz. I wouldn't mess with the NB at all on that. That board just isn't designed for running the quads at anything over stock.

You can get some heatsinks for the VRM's and do a little bit of overclocking on it, but if you're so determined to OC that you're willing to go that far, the money's better spent on an enthusiast-class FM2+ board, either an ASUS Crossblade Ranger or A88X-PRO, or Gigabyte's F2A88X-UP4.


----------



## The Stilt

On APUs with the iGPU disabled, the strain put on VDD_NB circuit is extremely low. All APU motherboards have sufficient VDD_NB VRM because they are designed to handle the power consumption of the iGPU. The iGPU can consume over 30W at stock, while the NB on APU with the iGPU disabled consumes < 10W.

Increasing the NCLK doesn´t make much difference to the performance, since the memory latency is crippled by the design itself. It can easily wreck your stability thou.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The power phasing is weak and the VRM's aren't even heatsinked. I don't recommend overclocking an 860K on anything like that, but if you insist on doing it, don't run it much over 1.4v and 4 GHz. I wouldn't mess with the NB at all on that. That board just isn't designed for running the quads at anything over stock.
> 
> You can get some heatsinks for the VRM's and do a little bit of overclocking on it, but if you're so determined to OC that you're willing to go that far, the money's better spent on an enthusiast-class FM2+ board, either an ASUS Crossblade Ranger or A88X-PRO, or Gigabyte's F2A88X-UP4.


Yeah it basically is a fun build with AMD I am doing for the cheap. I basically switched platforms because Intel pissed me off with the whole Broadwell wait a year for an higher
priced i7 BS when I was on Z97 and could of bought Haswell instead of the Pentium Aniversary chip. Thats another story....

I have a A10 PRO 7800b which doesn't have an unlocked multi but I wanted to sqeeze an extra 5fps out. I am playing Fallout 4 on 720p on low and its fine except for when alot of enemies and physics are going on, then it drops to 20 from 45-50. Someone said you can't really get over 100 MHZ overclock on APU's. Mine is set at a 720 clock by default.
Just looking for some tips that wouldn't degrade the motherboard longterm but get a little added performance here and there.

The APU is very strong. Reminds me alot of my old fav the 4770 aka the 5670 which played Skyrim really well.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Does anyone have the Asus A88xm bios? I can't seem to find the place to adjust northbridge multiplier.


----------



## Feimitsu

deleted


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> the L3 cache on FX chips is barely faster than good DDR3.


Aida64 with my FX at 4.5 GHz with 2133 DDR3 16 GB (2x 8GB), dual channel, 9-11-10-27-1T

memory read: 28.9 GB/s
L3 cache read: 133.9 GB/s

memory write: 18.7 GB/s
L3 cache write: 39.3 GB/s

memory copy: 25.7 GB/s
L3 cache copy: 169.6 GB/s

memory latency: 53.8 ns
L3 cache latency: ? (trial version of Aida)


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Does anyone have the Asus A88xm bios? I can't seem to find the place to adjust northbridge multiplier.


Ai Tweaker > NB Frequency?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Aida64 with my FX at 4.5 GHz with 2133 DDR3 16 GB (2x 8GB), dual channel, 9-11-10-27-1T
> 
> memory read: 28.9 GB/s
> L3 cache read: 133.9 GB/s
> 
> memory write: 18.7 GB/s
> L3 cache write: 39.3 GB/s
> 
> memory copy: 25.7 GB/s
> L3 cache copy: 169.6 GB/s
> 
> memory latency: 53.8 ns
> L3 cache latency: ? (trial version of Aida)


Divide the bandwidth numbers with the number of compute units (2/3/4)


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> On APUs with the iGPU disabled, the strain put on VDD_NB circuit is extremely low. All APU motherboards have sufficient VDD_NB VRM because they are designed to handle the power consumption of the iGPU. The iGPU can consume over 30W at stock, while the NB on APU with the iGPU disabled consumes < 10W.
> 
> Increasing the NCLK doesn´t make much difference to the performance, since the memory latency is crippled by the design itself. It can easily wreck your stability thou.


Do you think is there any noticeable difference in performance between stock 1.8GHz and 2GHz then?
I've noticed that with NB stock I can keep lower voltages on CPU clocks, meanwhile with NB at 2GHz some frequencies need slightly higher vcore.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Divide the bandwidth numbers with the number of compute units (2/3/4)


That would make L3 cache writes much worse (9.825) than RAM unless I did the match wrong (dividing by 4).


----------



## The Stilt

I would definitely rather have better efficiency for the CPU than 200MHz higher NCLK. Higher is better, but you won´t be able to tell the difference, unless you benchmark SuperPI, LZMA compression or such.


----------



## VordaVor

Just did 3 passes in AIDA64 for 1800Mhz and 2100Mhz CPUNB each.

The average results are as follows:

1800 Mhz
22407 read memory
11718 write memory
21117 copy memory
76.4 latency

2100 Mhz
24860 read memory
12151 write memory
23514 copy memory
72.3 latency

Since I can't get any higher than 4100Mhz without going 1.5v+, I will leave my CPUNB at max that I can. At least that part of my chip is overclockable.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Ai Tweaker > NB Frequency?


Ok cool, I set it to 2000. Now if only I can overclock my memory too...lol.


----------



## coffeerox

Hmm, since NB OC reduces amount of voltage needed for CPU, can I possibly use that to reach 4.4? As it stands, I need 1.5v just to hit 4.3.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Hmm, since NB OC reduces amount of voltage needed for CPU, can I possibly use that to reach 4.4? As it stands, I need 1.5v just to hit 4.3.


you might want to test that, not sure it is the same for every sample. I will retest it myself to see if I can shave significant amount of volts. Not even sure I need 2000 NB with ram at only 1600MHz.

Though from some tests the benefits of 2000 NB are visible.


----------



## coffeerox

Update. Using 2000 NB, I was able to stabilize 4.3ghz at 1.44, down from 1.5v, but I'm still not able to hit 4.4. I increased voltage up to 1.5 and even increased LLC to High (which was unnecessary as it overshot to 1.5). On the plus side, 4.3 is running a lot cooler than before. Margin evens out at 24 whereas before it was in the teens. At this point, I don't know what else I can do. Maybe my sample just can't hit 4.4 unless I go beyond 1.5.


----------



## mcspawnagain

i am new to this forum ,,, this is an old thread lol but i am installing this cpu this week don't plan to OC but you can learn allot about a cpu s by doing so stock 3.7 plus turbo is really not bad for the price of the chip it looks by this thread it is in fact ,a good buy thanks ,mcspawn


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> i am new to this forum ,,, this is an old thread lol but i am installing this cpu this week don't plan to OC but you can learn allot about a cpu s by doing so stock 3.7 plus turbo is really not bad for the price of the chip it looks by this thread it is in fact ,a good buy thanks ,mcspawn


Welcome to the forum.

860k is a nice chip and I'm a proud owner of one, even though mine is a bad overclocker.
Should you decide to OC one day, this thread is your best source of information, since almost everything has been covered.

Feel free to ask anything.

Cheers.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> i am new to this forum ,,, this is an old thread lol but i am installing this cpu this week don't plan to OC but you can learn allot about a cpu s by doing so stock 3.7 plus turbo is really not bad for the price of the chip it looks by this thread it is in fact ,a good buy thanks ,mcspawn


OK to post here if you have any questions. This is kind of the unofficial 860K owners' thread anyway.

It runs pretty well at stock. If you're doing any heavy-duty gaming on it, you'd want to overclock, but it's very fast for everyday tasks even at 3.7/4.0. And arguably the best value CPU on the market today.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Is the elusive 870K ever going to surface? Should I just jump ship?


----------



## jsc1973

AMD has issued SKU's for an 870K and an 880K, but neither one seems to have seen the light of day so far. I saw a report somewhere that someone spotted one in China, but there's not a single one on eBay, and if they actually were available in China, someone would be offering them on there for $150 a pop right now, because that happens anytime there's something in China that people want but can't get here.


----------



## Jack13

If they ever do appear, I'd get whichever one was available just for the sake of getting it. I doubt if it would be much of a difference from the 860 but I'd get one for playing around a bit to hold me over until I see if Zen can cut the mustard. I'll go with Zen if it's good, but if it's a flop I'll be turning to Intel. Need more muscle in my next major build.


----------



## bucdan

Anyone tried OCing this on a mITX board?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

I'd been hoping for a maturer silicon of the 860K. Reading about the OC potential makes me wary of going for it.


----------



## drmrlordx

You are waiting for the 870k or 880k, which are both MIA. So is the 7890k. Grr.


----------



## VordaVor

Anyone tried out the newest ASUS bios? It came out in November, but I'm hesitant to try it, as I've read here from someone that it refused to remove itself in favor of older versions or something.

Can someone confirm that it's impossible to backup earlier bios version after installing the latest one ?

Kind of wonder what the newest one will bring and will it push my OC threshold, but I certainly wont be upgrading if there is a fuss with downgrading.


----------



## Tamber

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bucdan*
> 
> Anyone tried OCing this on a mITX board?


I have got 4.2 with changing multiplier on my MSI A88XI AC. I have not had much time to sit and play with it but I want to try for more.


----------



## mcspawnagain

ty


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Anyone tried out the newest ASUS bios? It came out in November, but I'm hesitant to try it, as I've read here from someone that it refused to remove itself in favor of older versions or something.
> 
> Can someone confirm that it's impossible to backup earlier bios version after installing the latest one ?
> 
> Kind of wonder what the newest one will bring and will it push my OC threshold, but I certainly wont be upgrading if there is a fuss with downgrading.


November Bios 2701 on my A88XM Plus does not allow to go to earlier version... The latest good to my point of view was 2302.....


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> November Bios 2701 on my A88XM Plus does not allow to go to earlier version... The latest good to my point of view was 2302.....


Have you noticed ANY positive changes from November bios ? I'm using first godavari bios that came for this board and for me it's better than earlier versions. I would gladly test the newest one, but that inability to backup bios is really hard to swallow.


----------



## syl1979

In fact since bios 2401 from September it is awful. I need almost 1.5v to keep 4.2Ghz, when on bios 2302 from May I could get it for less than 1.45v


----------



## mcspawnagain

Gaming Rig
ATHLON X4 860K
GIGABYTE F288X-UP4
CRUCIAL 16 G RAM
EVGA 650 G2 MODULAR
MSI R9 270X 4G VRAM
WD CAV BLACK 1T WINDOWS 10 PRO

help me please i just bought this cpu and hooked up stock cooler and cant even run it stock clock 3.7- 4. iam not looking to overclock just run stable.
its running 70 c idle and will barely run. i am running F7 BIOS systems so unstable in default settings it wont load win 10 pro
am i using the wrong bios? any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks


----------



## burninator

How are you measuring your temperatures? AMD Overdrive measures Thermal Margin (distance from thermal throttle) and is a unit-less parameter.

How is it unstable? Are you crashing frequently?

How did you apply the thermal paste? Is the stock cooler mounted correctly? The stock cooler should be able to cope with stock settings.

Maybe take some pictures of the APU socket area for us?


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *burninator*
> 
> How are you measuring your temperatures? AMD Overdrive measures Thermal Margin (distance from thermal throttle) and is a unit-less parameter.
> 
> How is it unstable? Are you crashing frequently?
> 
> How did you apply the thermal paste? Is the stock cooler mounted correctly? The stock cooler should be able to cope with stock settings.
> 
> Maybe take some pictures of the APU socket area for us?


temps were measured in bios . it so unstable windows willl only stay online on new os and drive for 10 seconds and dies when i try to load drivers post is fine alittle laggy but does run i used a stars soft pack heat sink compound


----------



## mcspawnagain

the cooler is mounted correctly per you tube lol


----------



## 7850K

F7 BIOS is for Godavari, download F6 and reflash
BIOS temps always read high
download amdoverdrive to monitor CPU temp in thermal margin. Idle should be around 45-55 margin.


----------



## mcspawnagain

thanks man did a fresh install to be safe operating smoothly and down loading updates


----------



## mcspawnagain

are the new crimson drivers safe as well as gigabyte utilitys safe?


----------



## mcspawnagain

ATHLON X4 860K GIGABYTE F288X-UP4 CRUCIAL 16 G RAM EVGA 650 G2 MODULAR MSI R9 270X 4G VRAM WD CAV BLACK 1T WINDOWS 10 PRO
it run and loads with windows but crashes still


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok a little more stable but still crashing frequently what is the best response for crashes? let it run, hard shut down, or boot from drive via bios? i dont know why but letting it set for a minute helps i watched monitor CPU temp in thermal margin. Idle is around 45-55 margin. but i cant tell if its actually idle i think every thing is trying to load at once the graph is freaking out please advise


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> ok a little more stable but still crashing frequently what is the best response for crashes? let it run, hard shut down, or boot from drive via bios? i dont know why but letting it set for a minute helps i watched monitor CPU temp in thermal margin. Idle is around 45-55 margin. but i cant tell if its actually idle i think every thing is trying to load at once the graph is freaking out please advise


Calm down, we will work it out.

First of all, Crimson Drivers are ok. Download the latest ones, 15.11.1, the ones that fixed the GPU fan stuck at 20% bug, just to be sure.

Are you using AMD OverDrive (AOD) to monitor temps ? If so, under CPU Status, the higher the Thermal Margin, the better. So numbers 45-55 are ok for idle on stock cooler.
Also, when in BIOS, don't worry about the high temps that much, it's the ones in Windows that count most.

Do you get any error or anything after the crash ? What happens, does it freeze or just restarts suddenly ?

Can you give us more details on the RAM ?


----------



## mcspawnagain

thanks yeah i just really want back in the game. I used (aod) its a great program for me it would monitor and it got confirmed at 45-55 on stock cooler but it would vary sharply high low when it fails it just goes black no warnings and most of the time in 3-5 minutes naturally reboots (the harddrive light shows its forzen)after 5-6 attempts i am prompted to windows repair . thanks its good to have a tech. outlet


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok its a crucial ballistix sports 16g kit 9-9-9-24 1.5v
just to note the main consistent is loading video drivers failing every time
grafics pcie-x slot works best on SB


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> ok its a crucial ballistix sports 16g kit 9-9-9-24 1.5v
> just to note the main consistent is loading video drivers failing every time


Ok, Crucial site confirmed that your RAM is compatible with UP4 mobo, so that shouldn't be an issue.

How do you know that video drivers are falling every time ?

Lets check if GPU drivers are the real issue. Go to Control panel/Programs and features, select AMD Install Manager and uninstall your drivers.
After reboot, check if the crashes continue. If they don't, then you probably messed up with the drivers somewhere, and you need to reinstall them.

If you confirm that you don't have any crashes after uninstaling drivers, download new drivers from HERE, just click the third download option labeled "AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 15.11.1 Update", install, reboot and see if the problem is solved.


----------



## mcspawnagain

the system gets flaky when trying to install the drivers typically, thanks for confirming my mem config and in slot 1&2,









drvers failed to install offline going to try online again


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Ok, Crucial site confirmed that your RAM is compatible with UP4 mobo, so that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> How do you know that video drivers are falling every time ?
> 
> Lets check if GPU drivers are the real issue. Go to Control panel/Programs and features, select AMD Install Manager and uninstall your drivers.
> After reboot, check if the crashes continue. If they don't, then you probably messed up with the drivers somewhere, and you need to reinstall them.
> 
> If you confirm that you don't have any crashes after uninstaling drivers, download new drivers from HERE, just click the third download option labeled "AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 15.11.1 Update", install, reboot and see if the problem is solved.


i really appreciate all the support it seems in fact its not accepting drivers for the video i will try and flash card bios


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> i really appreciate all the support it seems in fact its not accepting drivers for the video i will try and flash card bios


http://www.msi.com/product/graphics-card/support/R9-270X-GAMING-4G.html#down-driver&Win10 64

Here are the drivers right from your cards site. Though take note those are latest Catalyst drivers, maybe Crimson is giving you some issues.
Delete anything crimson has tried to install, maybe even use this TOOL, but first try without it.

Have you tried older BIOS version, like 7850K suggested ?

edit: I thought I should mention, few days ago I tried updating friends laptop with newest Crimson drivers. It always failed to install them, after a loooong boot, the drivers somehow corrupt, or they didn't install at all, and I lost 2 hours of my life on it. In the end I reverted to latest Catalyst from November, just to get the laptop how it used to be.
Crimson drivers were listed to support the GPU I tried to update.


----------



## 7850K

to further narrow down the possible causes, I recommend running memtest on each of your ram sticks separately for at least 45m to an hour unless you see errors within the first few minutes. you can install it onto a flash drive and boot from it on restart. http://www.memtest86.com/download.htm
your system sounds unusually unstable especially for a fresh OS install. bad ram can cause those types of issues.


----------



## mcspawnagain

hey hanks again for keeping up with me as best i can tell its stable with Microsoft display adapters iam going to have to fresh install again and try and uninstall it then crimson theres really no reason this system should have problems


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> hey hanks again for keeping up with me as best i can tell its stable with Microsoft display adapters iam going to have to fresh install again and try and uninstall it then crimson theres really no reason this system should have problems


Good, if its stable with Microsoft adapters, then you have found the cause.

Don't to Crimson, use the link from the MSI site i posted, and instal latest CATALYST drivers, see if those cause you crashes.


----------



## mcspawnagain

will do


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> will do


Just out of curiosity, do you have an anti-virus installed ?


----------



## mcspawnagain

negative


----------



## mcspawnagain

i gues i actually cant uninstall windows display adapter but i think the procedure is to disable it at least for amd download and install
my next Question if catalyst is in the loaded programs but my video card
isnt even listed in devise manager


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok i missed something stupid on install . yeah i am really embarrassed
.how do i make driver media usb from win rar zip / chipset being most important http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4709&dl=1&RWD=0#driver
from what i gather it has to be un zipped in away that only unfolds a one file open system
your help would be appreciated


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> ok i missed something stupid on install . yeah i am really embarrassed
> .how do i make driver media usb from win rar zip / chipset being most important http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4709&dl=1&RWD=0#driver
> from what i gather it has to be un zipped in away that only unfolds a one file open system
> your help would be appreciated


With WinRAR installed, right click Extract to...[name of folder] and it should make a new folder and extract everything inside to it.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> i gues i actually cant uninstall windows display adapter but i think the procedure is to disable it at least for amd download and install
> my next Question if catalyst is in the loaded programs but my video card
> isnt even listed in devise manager


I don't know whats happening with your system, but you should continue to try and update your chipset, then maybe upgrade/downgrade your BIOS, cause that can be a source of many issues.

I don't think you can fully uninstal windows display adapter. It has to exist for you to do things without official amd driver. The best you can do is use the DDU tool I mentioned earlier, in safe mode, let it clean everything up, and do a fresh driver install after that.

If all this fails, try updating windows, or tinker with different BIOS versions.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> Gaming Rig
> ATHLON X4 860K
> GIGABYTE F288X-UP4
> CRUCIAL 16 G RAM
> EVGA 650 G2 MODULAR
> MSI R9 270X 4G VRAM
> WD CAV BLACK 1T WINDOWS 10 PRO
> 
> help me please i just bought this cpu and hooked up stock cooler and cant even run it stock clock 3.7- 4. iam not looking to overclock just run stable.
> its running 70 c idle and will barely run. i am running F7 BIOS systems so unstable in default settings it wont load win 10 pro
> am i using the wrong bios? any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks


If you get 70deg on idle, it means you have bad assembly of the CPU cooler....

You should check the fixations.


----------



## coffeerox

Actually 70C on idle in AMD Overdrive is very good. Remember that AOD shows temps in reverse. Higher numbers = cooler while lower number = hotter.

Anyways, I would suggest mcspawnagain to post up some pictures of the install. It would help if we can spot any physical problems or something he may have missed.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> temps were measured in bios . it so unstable windows willl only stay online on new os and drive for 10 seconds and dies when i try to load drivers post is fine alittle laggy but does run i used a stars soft pack heat sink compound


He said temp was in bios


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok i hope we can put this ticket to rest i loaded AOD on stable wndows 10 it scored 45-55 and it turns that the main issue was regarding drivers for th graphics card because on a stable system my devise manager showed display adapter made by microsoft so i tried uninstalling direct , and offline install of driver causing system failure consistently. i used a catylist from board manufacturer from amd.com and crimson failure again. so after calling gigabyte and msi on this issue of posting with NO card we decided the graphics card would be RMA'd thank you to MSI we will see in a few weeks if things are good


----------



## mcspawnagain

thanks to all the help on this forum even though i am new here ! i will update when my card gets back if its ok


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Welp, I decided to pull the trigger and bought myself an 860K. Hopefully I can get it to a decent overclock.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Welp, I decided to pull the trigger and bought myself an 860K. Hopefully I can get it to a decent overclock.


Good luck in your sillicon lottery, I lost it so hard months ago.

1.512V required for 4.3GHz while some people are able to 5GHz :T


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Good luck in your sillicon lottery, I lost it so hard months ago.
> 
> 1.512V required for 4.3GHz while some people are able to 5GHz :T


It may be something other than the lottery that's the cause of that, like a board (or setting on the board) that's inadequate due to excessive droop.

Extreme differences in required voltages are rarely due to any lottery.


----------



## mcspawnagain

have you guys ever tried to compare GHz between intel and amd it seems to me respectfully they have somewhat different definitions


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Good luck in your sillicon lottery, I lost it so hard months ago.
> 
> 1.512V required for 4.3GHz while some people are able to 5GHz :T


5 GHz Kaveri stable on all four cores is simply not a reality for anyone on air. Kaveri can't go very far past 4.7 GHz.


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> have you guys ever tried to compare GHz between intel and amd it seems to me respectfully they have somewhat different definitions


Hz are the same thing, CPU cycles. The amount of instructions that a CPU cant proccess in one cycle is the difference, and is where Intel wins by far.


----------



## mcspawnagain

if we all could be so lucky to have a crappy thing:thumb: lol


----------



## coffeerox

I was looking through some Cinebench R15 scores and found that the 860K is roughly equal to a i3-4150. However, Passmark shows 700pts above the i3-4150 and is closer to the i5-2320 or even the latest i3-6100 lol.


----------



## mcspawnagain

my previose question regarding GHz kind of reflects soft ware/hard ware comparison are not always equal


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Good luck in your sillicon lottery, I lost it so hard months ago.
> 
> 1.512V required for 4.3GHz while some people are able to 5GHz :T


I don't think I have see anyone with Kaveri or Godavari cpu anywhere near 5 GHz. I am at 4.635 GHz with my A10-7870 at 1.5v.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> have you guys ever tried to compare GHz between intel and amd it seems to me respectfully they have somewhat different definitions


The definition of Hertz is exactly the same.

The difference is in what you call IPC (instructions per cycle). Intel CPU's have a much higher IPC, meaning they can do more work in a clock cycle (Hz) than an AMD one does. An AMD processor has to run at a higher speed to do the same level of work. That's why a 4.5 GHz 860K is roughly equivalent in performance to a 3.3 GHz i5-2500.

This hasn't always been the case, though. In 2001, a 1.4 GHz AMD Athlon Thunderbird CPU was equivalent in performance to a 2.0 GHz Intel Pentium 4. The Thunderbird just had higher IPC, and therefore, the Intel chip had to be clocked much higher to match its performance.

None of this is news. We've all known it for as long as we've known about computer hardware. Different x86 CPU designs from different manufacturers are never at par with one another. Even when AMD was making Intel 286/386/486 clones, one side or the other was always finding ways to tweak the performance. AMD actually made the fastest 386 and 486 CPU's ever produced (if you don't count the Cyrix 5x86, which was really a cut-down 6x86 crammed into a 486 pinout).


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> Gaming Rig
> ATHLON X4 860K
> GIGABYTE F288X-UP4
> CRUCIAL 16 G RAM
> EVGA 650 G2 MODULAR
> MSI R9 270X 4G VRAM
> WD CAV BLACK 1T WINDOWS 10 PRO
> 
> help me please i just bought this cpu and hooked up stock cooler and cant even run it stock clock 3.7- 4. iam not looking to overclock just run stable.
> its running 70 c idle and will barely run. i am running F7 BIOS systems so unstable in default settings it wont load win 10 pro
> am i using the wrong bios? any help would
> be greatly appreciated, thanks


I'm running the same setup basically, and the biggest problem I had was using the built in system program to OC my memory profiles. I would get the bluescreen memory shortage error. I have 16 GB of corsair vengeance pro 2400mhz edition ram. So I stopped using the program, an OC'ing my ram in the bios settings.


----------



## mcspawnagain

does that mean the ipc is always locked in to its Hz value? sounds like the all mighty over clock could be measured differently

Gigabyte F288X-UP4
AMD Athlon X4 860K
MSI R9 270X 4G
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB
WD 1TB caviar black sata 3
Windows 10 pro 64 bit
Corsair k70 cherry blue
Mionix NAOS 8200
Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"
Razer Black Shark


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> does that mean the ipc is always locked in to its Hz value? sounds like the all mighty over clock could be measured differently


One has nothing to do with the other.

It's like two car engines designed on different principles by different manufacturers. They both power a car, but other than that, they don't have much in common. One of them makes 200 horsepower at 5,000 RPM, and the other makes 300 hp at 5,000 RPM.

The engine's RPM's are the same thing as Hz on a CPU, and the horsepower is the IPC. One does more work per cycle than the other. The equivalent of overclocking would be to get the first engine to run at 7,500 RPM, which (assuming linear hp gain and no redline) would allow it to match the second engine at 300 hp.

Hertz are an absolute figure, not a relative one. If you overclock an 860K from 3.7 GHz to 4.5 GHz, that's what it is. How it performs relative to another CPU is irrelevant to how much you have overclocked it.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> One has nothing to do with the other.
> 
> It's like two car engines designed on different principles by different manufacturers. They both power a car, but other than that, they don't have much in common. One of them makes 200 horsepower at 5,000 RPM, and the other makes 300 hp at 5,000 RPM.
> 
> The engine's RPM's are the same thing as Hz on a CPU, and the horsepower is the IPC. One does more work per cycle than the other. The equivalent of overclocking would be to get the first engine to run at 7,500 RPM, which (assuming linear hp gain and no redline) would allow it to match the second engine at 300 hp.
> 
> Hertz are an absolute figure, not a relative one. If you overclock an 860K from 3.7 GHz to 4.5 GHz, that's what it is. How it performs relative to another CPU is irrelevant to how much you have overclocked it.


how does cache and ram memory play in ipc or does it ?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

What are some good CPU benchmarking software? Preferably free.


----------



## mcspawnagain

http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/download-unigine-heaven-benchmark.html
http://www.futuremark.com/support/downloads
as best i can tell futuremark has better cpu analysis


----------



## drmrlordx

For CPU benchmarking, I like:

Cinebench R10 (R11.5 and R15 hate AMD processors, with R11.5 being the worst offender)
y-cruncher
wprime
SuperPi mod 1.5 XS (lol)
Asus RealBench
AMD linpack


----------



## coffeerox

After looking through hwbot.org and doing some comparisons, it's even more cemented that it's equivalent to the i3-4150 and i5-2320 (and that's after 860K is OC'ed). Even though Passmark shows that an OC'ed 860K is close to an i5-2500 (and also an i5-4430) the benchmark numbers don't reflect that.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

What's the best software to monitor CPU temps (not including BIOS)? Since I installed this 860K it has been giving more problems than benefits. Plus I'm pretty sure I set it to stock clocks/voltages.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> What's the best software to monitor CPU temps (not including BIOS)? Since I installed this 860K it has been giving more problems than benefits. Plus I'm pretty sure I set it to stock clocks/voltages.


this product i bought 6 yrs ago on a previous build is pretty good i haven't researched amd/ati support yet
http://www.aida64.com/


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> What's the best software to monitor CPU temps (not including BIOS)? Since I installed this 860K it has been giving more problems than benefits. Plus I'm pretty sure I set it to stock clocks/voltages.


The only accurate read on temperature is AMD Overdrive. Even then, that's not a temperature reading, it only tells you how close or how far from maximum temperature you are. For the 860K, the maximum temperature 72c before it throttles, so on AMD Overdrive, that would be 0 thermal margin. You want to be at 10c minimum (under 100% load) and 20c ideally. 60-70c on idle is considered very cool.

Oh and as for stock, I had problems with it initially too, as turbo boost was consuming too much voltage (and therefore it was hotter than it needed to be). So what I did was switch the + to a - and subtracted the offset voltage once (like .00625 or something)


----------



## The Stilt

AOD displays the very same "temperature" which is displayed by every other monitoring tool available. The only difference is that AOD displays it inverted (distance to maximum vs. the absolute value). All Kaveri desktop parts have tCTLMax of 70 units. If HwMonitor or HWInfo reads 32 units as the temperature, AOD will display 38 at the same time.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> AOD displays the very same "temperature" which is displayed by every other monitoring tool available. The only difference is that AOD displays it inverted (distance to maximum vs. the absolute value). All Kaveri desktop parts have tCTLMax of 70 units. If HwMonitor or HWInfo reads 32 units as the temperature, AOD will display 38 at the same time.


Is this also true for Intel or is it different for them?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Is this also true for Intel or is it different for them?


It´s AMD specific.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> After looking through hwbot.org and doing some comparisons, it's even more cemented that it's equivalent to the i3-4150 and i5-2320 (and that's after 860K is OC'ed). Even though Passmark shows that an OC'ed 860K is close to an i5-2500 (and also an i5-4430) the benchmark numbers don't reflect that.


Depends on what workloads you're running. Passmark is accurate, but you have to take into account what it is measuring. It maxes out every resource on the CPU--all available cores, and all special instruction sets. For that reason, it usually doesn't reach i5-2500 performance in gaming even at 4.5 GHz, although it doesn't miss by much. Newer titles will tend to perform better than older ones.

It's plenty good enough for a gaming rig, but if you're going for enthusiast-class gaming, high settings and resolutions, with something like a 390 or up or a 980 or up, you really should consider Intel or at least an overclocked octocore Vishera, and the latter only if you plan on running recent titles that are multicore aware. The 860K is a fantastic CPU for what it is, but there's a limit to what $75 will buy you.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Depends on what workloads you're running. Passmark is accurate, but you have to take into account what it is measuring. It maxes out every resource on the CPU--all available cores, and all special instruction sets. For that reason, it usually doesn't reach i5-2500 performance in gaming even at 4.5 GHz, although it doesn't miss by much. Newer titles will tend to perform better than older ones.
> 
> It's plenty good enough for a gaming rig, but if you're going for enthusiast-class gaming, high settings and resolutions, with something like a 390 or up or a 980 or up, you really should consider Intel or at least an overclocked octocore Vishera, and the latter only if you plan on running recent titles that are multicore aware. The 860K is a fantastic CPU for what it is, but there's a limit to what $75 will buy you.


I agree with all of that.....

And one thing to especially consider, is that if you run an NVIDIA card, especially an upper tier one, expect even more CPU utilization than with AMD GPU's.

I have tested both the R9 Fury with an overclock, and my GTX 980 KPE with an overclock, and the CPU usage has been higher on the NVIDIA card, despite the Fury being more powerful.

Obviously driver overhead, but still something to consider....


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Depends on what workloads you're running. Passmark is accurate, but you have to take into account what it is measuring. It maxes out every resource on the CPU--all available cores, and all special instruction sets. For that reason, it usually doesn't reach i5-2500 performance in gaming even at 4.5 GHz, although it doesn't miss by much. Newer titles will tend to perform better than older ones.


I knew it was something like that but in real scenarios, usage like that is not going to happen.
Quote:


> It's plenty good enough for a gaming rig, but if you're going for enthusiast-class gaming, high settings and resolutions, with something like a 390 or up or a 980 or up, you really should consider Intel or at least an overclocked octocore Vishera, and the latter only if you plan on running recent titles that are multicore aware. The 860K is a fantastic CPU for what it is, but there's a limit to what $75 will buy you.


What I'm primarily concerned with is that if I buy a 380X in the future, I won't receive as much benefit as I would an i5. I had the R9 280 pegged as the best GPU for this CPU and I saw a gaming bench comparison where the i5s were getting much higher framerates while the 860's was closer to the G3258 (except it obviously didn't stutter or choke on the 860).

For right now, It's not really a big deal b/c I play mainly in 1366x768 to 1600x900 and I can usually get High 60FPS and some games are High/Ultra. I just hope that better optimized games or DX12 games become more common place by the time I get a 380X. Who knows, I might have Zen by then.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I knew it was something like that but in real scenarios, usage like that is not going to happen.
> What I'm primarily concerned with is that if I buy a 380X in the future, I won't receive as much benefit as I would an i5. I had the R9 280 pegged as the best GPU for this CPU and I saw a gaming bench comparison where the i5s were getting much higher framerates while the 860's was closer to the G3258 (except it obviously didn't stutter or choke on the 860).
> 
> For right now, It's not really a big deal b/c I play mainly in 1366x768 to 1600x900 and I can usually get High 60FPS and some games are High/Ultra. I just hope that better optimized games or DX12 games become more common place by the time I get a 380X. Who knows, I might have Zen by then.


8320E ($100) + UD3P ($48) if you have a Microcenter near. True Spirit Power 140 cooler ($55) from Amazon. Overclock to 4.4 - 4.5 or disable a module and clock higher.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> 8320E ($100) + UD3P ($48) if you have a Microcenter near. True Spirit Power 140 cooler ($55) from Amazon. Overclock to 4.4 - 4.5 or disable a module and clock higher.


I've been researching a switch but I can't seem to find FX-6300's used for a good price. Quality mobos don't seem to be abundant in used markets either. No need to buy a True Spirit though. I'm already running a 212 Evo and can use that.

edit:
and here we have a Frys electronics, not Microcenter


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I knew it was something like that but in real scenarios, usage like that is not going to happen.
> What I'm primarily concerned with is that if I buy a 380X in the future, I won't receive as much benefit as I would an i5. I had the R9 280 pegged as the best GPU for this CPU and I saw a gaming bench comparison where the i5s were getting much higher framerates while the 860's was closer to the G3258 (except it obviously didn't stutter or choke on the 860).
> 
> For right now, It's not really a big deal b/c I play mainly in 1366x768 to 1600x900 and I can usually get High 60FPS and some games are High/Ultra. I just hope that better optimized games or DX12 games become more common place by the time I get a 380X. Who knows, I might have Zen by then.


I've posted my own Passmark numbers way back earlier in this thread. I actually got very close to an i5-3570, but I've always added the caveat that it doesn't actually perform that way in most games. The value lies in the fact that it's a quad-core that has enough power to run games without turning all of the settings down to crap. I had about i5-2400 performance, but it might go like a 2320 on another system.

A 380X is right at the upper limit of what I'd use an 860K to drive. A plain 380 is a better match for it. As for the G3258, it will outperform an 860K on titles that only use one or two cores, and sometimes will even generate higher raw framerates on multi-core games, with the aforementioned stuttering and/or choking thrown in. Unless you're only playing older titles and MMO's, I can't recommend it.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> The value lies in the fact that it's a quad-core that has enough power to run games without turning all of the settings down to crap.


Yeah that's why I got it. It's still surprising me how better patches, drivers, etc continues to improve performance. I really don't mind that the 860K performs closer to an i3 in games but I wish games were better optimized. In the beautifully optimized games, 860K was getting framerates and quality levels on par with the 4460 (which itself isn't far from the 4430, that's equivalent to the i5-2500 on Passmark). That's where games *should* be, but not many of them are.
Quote:


> Unless you're only playing older titles and MMO's, I can't recommend it.


I'm still trying to lead people away from it but they fall into that stupid trap over and over. They always talk about "upgrade path" when they can just buy an i3-4170 right off the bat. G3258 is a piece of crap. 860K is so much better for the money and despite it being recommended as the budget CPU of choice, people are still hesitant to buy it cause it's AMD.


----------



## drmrlordx

Only reason why I hesitate to recommend the 860k is that you can get GV-A1 stepping silicon from the 7670k. Sure, it costs more, but if you are into overclocking, it gets you closer to 4.5-4.7 GHz than the 860k. And it is soldered.

Assuming the mounting rumours pointing to a March 2016 launch of AM4 are true, the entire landscape of AMD CPUs and APUs could be drastically altered very soon, making FM2+ and the 860k potentially less interesting.


----------



## DannyDK

Will the FM2+ platform see a better CPU/APU in the future or is it dead like AM3+?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Will the FM2+ platform see a better CPU/APU in the future or is it dead like AM3+?


Except for the announced Godavari Athlons and APU, I higly doubt it.

I'm still waiting for 880k news, anything beyond that would be awesome, but probably not gonna happen. I hope AMD proves me wrong, lol.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Except for the announced Godavari Athlons and APU, I higly doubt it.
> 
> I'm still waiting for 880k news, anything beyond that would be awesome, but probably not gonna happen. I hope AMD proves me wrong, lol.


Just did a build with a 7870k and clocked it easyly to 4.7 on a asus plus board and got the gpu to 1040 without doing much and the 2400 ram work right away. It could actualy play fo4 on 720p - low and got decent fps (35-50), only played about 5 minutes when i got out out the vault so dont know if it would dip more longer in the game. Wold love to have an apu that could do it at 720p - med, but i think it would need about 3200 ram which aint gonna happend with the 88 chipset i think :-(


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> Just did a build with a 7870k and clocked it easyly to 4.7 on a asus plus board and got the gpu to 1040 without doing much and the 2400 ram work right away. It could actualy play fo4 on 720p - low and got decent fps (35-50), only played about 5 minutes when i got out out the vault so dont know if it would dip more longer in the game. Wold love to have an apu that could do it at 720p - med, but i think it would need about 3200 ram which aint gonna happend with the 88 chipset i think :-(


My 860k can barely go 4.2, it needs 1.5+, so I'm currently at 4.1 and I'm happy performance-wise. Northbridge is 2.1 and RAM 2400Mhz no prob though.

I would be more than happy to get a 880k that can get to 4.8 and even higher on NB if possible. As I currently stand, I have nothing to lose when switching to Godavari Athlon when it comes out.

Nice chip you have there and nice OC on that board.


----------



## DannyDK

2100 on the nb aswell, forgot that before 
Could get around 2150 and 1080 on the gpu, but the build wasnt for me, so i clocked the nb at 2100 and the gpu at 1040 and the cpu at 4.6 just so it wouldnt cause the kid that is getting it on christmas any problems


----------



## drmrlordx

I hate to say it, but I do not think we'll see the 880k. We may instead see a Bristol Ridge-based Athlon for FM2+. The 870k, 880k, and 4790k will probably never see the light of day.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I hate to say it, but I do not think we'll see the 880k. We may instead see a Bristol Ridge-based Athlon for FM2+. The 870k, 880k, and 4790k will probably never see the light of day.


Thats a good think, right ? I mean, its newer architecture, it cant be worse than current FM2+ CPUs.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Thats a good think, right ? I mean, its newer architecture, it cant be worse than current FM2+ CPUs.


'

Possibly good. XV is 5% better in IPC than SR at a minimum, and often times 10%+ better depending on the workload. The question is one of clockspeeds. The top-end Bristol Ridge will have 3.6 "base" and 4.0 turbo clockspeeds, which is okay compared to the current Kaveri crop. Presumably the Athlons based on Bristol Ridge will clock about as well. The real question for us overclockers is: how far can you push those chips? I doubt Bristol Ridge will hit 4.7 GHz or higher, though I could be wrong.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> '
> 
> Possibly good. XV is 5% better in IPC than SR at a minimum, and often times 10%+ better depending on the workload. The question is one of clockspeeds. The top-end Bristol Ridge will have 3.6 "base" and 4.0 turbo clockspeeds, which is okay compared to the current Kaveri crop. Presumably the Athlons based on Bristol Ridge will clock about as well. The real question for us overclockers is: how far can you push those chips? I doubt Bristol Ridge will hit 4.7 GHz or higher, though I could be wrong.


Any other changes on bristol ridge, like better NB or something ? I hope there will be more to it than 5% IPC that can be negated by heavy OC.

Edit: Nvm, I just read about the rumors that Bristol Ridge will arrive on FM2+. The information is newer than any Godavari Athlon mentions. So far there are no details, other than "in the upcoming months".


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Possibly good. XV is 5% better in IPC than SR at a minimum, and often times 10%+ better depending on the workload. The question is one of clockspeeds. The top-end Bristol Ridge will have 3.6 "base" and 4.0 turbo clockspeeds, which is okay compared to the current Kaveri crop. Presumably the Athlons based on Bristol Ridge will clock about as well. The real question for us overclockers is: how far can you push those chips? I doubt Bristol Ridge will hit 4.7 GHz or higher, though I could be wrong.


Stilt made it sound like even 4Ghz was a stretch on XV. I'm betting the SR athlons would still be the better choice for high end boards and the XV chips would be the choice for stock systems or HTPCs


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Managed to stabilized my 860k. Turns out that the latest BIOS for my board (F7) doesn't like Kaveri. Switched to F6 and it's running fine now. Still haven't clocked it though.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Managed to stabilized my 860k. Turns out that the latest BIOS for my board (F7) doesn't like Kaveri. Switched to F6 and it's running fine now. Still haven't clocked it though.


good man! what temps it gettin on what board?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> good man! what temps it gettin on what board?


Haven't bothered to check. Checking temps on AMD CPUs are such a pain in the ass, it's idiotic. It has a Hyper 212 Evo so it should be pretty chilly. Nothing's touched yet.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Haven't bothered to check. Checking temps on AMD CPUs are such a pain in the ass, it's idiotic. It has a Hyper 212 Evo so it should be pretty chilly. Nothing's touched yet.


i just remounted the stock cooler i expect a drop in deg. it should and btw your system IS very similar to mine so keep posting thanks buddy
Gigabyte F288X-UP4
AMD Athlon X4 860K
MSI R9 270X 4G
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB
WD 1TB caviar black sata 3
Windows 10 pro 64 bit
Corsair k70 cherry blue
Mionix NAOS 8200
Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"
Razer Black Shark


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Are there any other settings I could tweak for stability? 1.38v / 4.2Ghz crashes my games. Voltage is very tricky as any more easily crashes my PC.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Are there any other settings I could tweak for stability? 1.38v / 4.2Ghz crashes my games. Voltage is very tricky as any more easily crashes my PC.


multiplier and bclk+volts


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Are there any other settings I could tweak for stability? 1.38v / 4.2Ghz crashes my games. Voltage is very tricky as any more easily crashes my PC.


1.38v / 4.2Ghz ? Amazing you can do anything on that voltage. Try bumping it until the crashes stop. Mine requires 1.5+ for 4.2, just a bad chip I guess. I bet you can do 4.5 easily on yours.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Are there any other settings I could tweak for stability? 1.38v / 4.2Ghz crashes my games. Voltage is very tricky as any more easily crashes my PC.


Yours sounds a lot like mine. IIRC I was able to run at about the same speeds at 1.4 or so. I'm currently sitting at 4.4 with 1.472V. I was able to do a stable 4.5 with a bit more voltage, but the gain was negligible, so I backed up to 4.4


----------



## Jack13

oops...looks like I mis-remembered...Here are some test results at various voltages that I posted a while back. Hope it helps.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1514009/athlon-860k-any-one-picking-it-up/1630#post_24307043


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> oops...looks like I mis-remembered...Here are some test results at various voltages that I posted a while back. Hope it helps.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1514009/athlon-860k-any-one-picking-it-up/1630#post_24307043


thanks man this is the kind of baseline information on volt/ multiply/ freq i needed although my system will undoubtedly clock lower because of thermals but data like this like gold so thanks for showing your work
Gigabyte F288X-UP4
AMD Athlon X4 860K
MSI R9 270X 4G
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB
WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
Windows 10 pro 64 bit
Corsair k70 cherry blue
Mionix NAOS 8200
Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"
Razer Black Shark


----------



## mcspawnagain

is there a way to calculate a custom turbo curve for just a little boost when it gets deep?
Gigabyte F288X-UP4
AMD Athlon X4 860K
MSI R9 270X 4G
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB
WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
Windows 10 pro 64 bit
Corsair k70 cherry blue
Mionix NAOS 8200
Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"
Razer Black Shark


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Are there any other settings I could tweak for stability? 1.38v / 4.2Ghz crashes my games. Voltage is very tricky as any more easily crashes my PC.


For me, 4.2 doesn't stabilize until 1.4v and I need LLC changes as well. 4.3ghz requires either 1.5v or 2000 NB which allows me to drop to 1.44v. I've seen people hit 4.4 with much less. It really depends on the quality of your chip.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> For me, 4.2 doesn't stabilize until 1.4v and I need LLC changes as well. 4.3ghz requires either 1.5v or 2000 NB which allows me to drop to 1.44v. I've seen people hit 4.4 with much less. It really depends on the quality of your chip.[/quote']
> 
> are the setting of LLC/2000 NB fond in bios or AOD?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> are the setting of LLC/2000 NB fond in bios or AOD?


BIOS


----------



## Tamber

Anyone familiar with the MSI A88X AC and overclocking on it?
It was strange, I was running 4.6 since October then today the pc just rebooted itself and reset defaults on its own. Now I can not get past 4.3.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tamber*
> 
> Anyone familiar with the MSI A88X AC and overclocking on it?
> It was strange, I was running 4.6 since October then today the pc just rebooted itself and reset defaults on its own. Now I can not get past 4.3.


Don't have experience with that board, but on my XBR PC suddenly started to freeze/crash last few days. It started happening on regular basis, every day-two, then yesterday after force restarting my PC I went into BIOS only to discover that the CPU undervolted itself and that was the cause of my freezes. Really weird.


----------



## chrisjames61

What the heck happened to the 870K and 880K? Just not enough failed igpu's?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> What the heck happened to the 870K and 880K? Just not enough failed igpu's?


There are rumors that new Athlons are not going to be Godavari based, but Bristol Ridge (Carrizo). So maybe thats the cause of the delay.


----------



## The Stilt

Carrizo Athlons are not replacing Godavari, they just work as a supplement.

AD830XYBJCBOX - Athlon 830X (3.0GHz base, 3.4GHz boost, 65W TDP)
AD850XYBJCBOX - Athlon 850X (3.2GHz base, 3.9GHz boost, 65W TDP)
AD870KXBJCBOX - Athlon 870K (3.9GHz base, 4.1GHz boost 95W TDP)
AD880KXBJCBOX - Athlon 880K (4.0GHz base, 4.2GHz boost 95W TDP)

There will be two Carrizo SKUs.

The Carrizo based models are going to be in between of those product segments, they are not high-end.

Athlon 870K is available in Japan (at least).


----------



## DannyDK

I wonder if the 880 can clock higher than the 7870, hope so, it would be cool to see if it could reach 5.0 stable


----------



## The Stilt

There is no reason to expect that. Kaveri / Godavari cannot reach higher ~ 4.7GHz due design / process limits. And at that point the required voltage is already so high that the energy efficiency is a complete joke (which was extremely poor to begin with). There is not much point in kicking the dead horse, IMO


----------



## Tamber

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Don't have experience with that board, but on my XBR PC suddenly started to freeze/crash last few days. It started happening on regular basis, every day-two, then yesterday after force restarting my PC I went into BIOS only to discover that the CPU undervolted itself and that was the cause of my freezes. Really weird.


There is no CPU voltage adjustment on this motherboard.








I been using Overdrive.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Athlon 870K is available in Japan (at least).


So it is:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/AMD-Athlon-870K-95W-AD870KXBJCBOX/dp/B019RNSCV4

Too bad Amazon can't be bothered to sell it in the states. Actually it's a firm called Sofmap that's selling the chip. Amazon is handling fulfillment (I guess).


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Carrizo Athlons are not replacing Godavari, they just work as a supplement.
> 
> AD830XYBJCBOX - Athlon 830X (3.0GHz base, 3.4GHz boost, 65W TDP)
> AD850XYBJCBOX - Athlon 850X (3.2GHz base, 3.9GHz boost, 65W TDP)
> AD870KXBJCBOX - Athlon 870K (3.9GHz base, 4.1GHz boost 95W TDP)
> AD880KXBJCBOX - Athlon 880K (4.0GHz base, 4.2GHz boost 95W TDP)
> 
> There will be two Carrizo SKUs.
> 
> The Carrizo based models are going to be in between of those product segments, they are not high-end.
> 
> Athlon 870K is available in Japan (at least).


Thanx, good to know that.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> So it is:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.jp/AMD-Athlon-870K-95W-AD870KXBJCBOX/dp/B019RNSCV4
> 
> Too bad Amazon can't be bothered to sell it in the states. Actually it's a firm called Sofmap that's selling the chip. Amazon is handling fulfillment (I guess).


Kind of spendy...Equivilant of $112 USD


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Kind of spendy...Equivilant of $112 USD


How much is the 7870k compared?


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> How much is the 7870k compared?


I'm assuming you're asking what a 7870K costs in Japan. Approx. $158 USD. If the 880K surfaces there in the real near future, I'll probably have my Mother-in-law pick one up and mail it to me even if it's a little more than what it should be here. Just for curiosity's sake.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Too bad Amazon can't be bothered to sell it in the states. Actually it's a firm called Sofmap that's selling the chip. Amazon is handling fulfillment (I guess).


If they had them to sell here, they would probably do so. There can't be many of them available anywhere, if the only listing in the world is from a third-party retailer selling them on Amazon Japan.

Wait a month or two and they'll probably be available in volume in retail channels, assuming that the Amazon.jp listing is even legitimate. I have some doubts. How does some obscure retailer in Japan called "Sofmap" seemingly have privileged access to a product that was supposed to be released six months ago?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If they had them to sell here, they would probably do so. There can't be many of them available anywhere, if the only listing in the world is from a third-party retailer selling them on Amazon Japan.
> 
> Wait a month or two and they'll probably be available in volume in retail channels, assuming that the Amazon.jp listing is even legitimate. I have some doubts. How does some obscure retailer in Japan called "Sofmap" seemingly have privileged access to a product that was supposed to be released six months ago?


The 870K is available in china at JD.com, the local equivalent of amazon. 500 yuan, 77 US$
I guess the guy selling in japan got them from China....

China is an important market for AMD. I hope when all stores there have full inventory we may see them in Europe or US...


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Carrizo Athlons are not replacing Godavari, they just work as a supplement.
> 
> AD830XYBJCBOX - Athlon 830X (3.0GHz base, 3.4GHz boost, 65W TDP)
> AD850XYBJCBOX - Athlon 850X (3.2GHz base, 3.9GHz boost, 65W TDP)
> AD870KXBJCBOX - Athlon 870K (3.9GHz base, 4.1GHz boost 95W TDP)
> AD880KXBJCBOX - Athlon 880K (4.0GHz base, 4.2GHz boost 95W TDP)
> 
> There will be two Carrizo SKUs.
> 
> The Carrizo based models are going to be in between of those product segments, they are not high-end.
> 
> Athlon 870K is available in Japan (at least).


How do we know it's Carrizo, or which ones are?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> How do we know it's Carrizo, or which ones are?


Because The Stilt said so, simple enough









If you google Bristol Ridge CPU's you will see that they are the ones with 65W TDP, announced for different socket. Add to that knowledge that Carrizo doesn't come in high clock speeds, due to how it was made. and no K prefix, but X, means that they won't be high end-OC chips that replace Godavari.

I was really hoping for a stronger Carrizo based Athlon that can go 4Ghz+, but everything points to that not happening







.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> How do we know it's Carrizo, or which ones are?


I won´t go into specifics, but...

If you get a retail part which has a SKU code containing "ACKA", then you´ll get one based on Excavator cores (Carrizo)








They´ll be separate models so there won´t be a mix of Kaveri / Godavari and Carrizo cores, obviously.

There will be at least two low-end SKUs. They are clocked relatively low and locked, so you´ll only be overclocking through BCLK. Also their NCLK is extremely low (same as for FP4 mobile parts), indicating a design restriction.

For obvious reasons there won´t be any Carrizo / Bristol Ridge based APUs for FM2+ socket.

ASUS and ASRock (at least) bioses already support these CPUs.


----------



## DannyDK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I won´t go into specifics, but...
> 
> If you get a retail part which has a SKU code containing "ACKA", then you´ll get one based on Excavator cores (Carrizo)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They´ll be separate models so there won´t be a mix of Kaveri / Godavari and Carrizo cores, obviously.
> 
> There will be at least two low-end SKUs. They are clocked relatively low and locked, so you´ll only be overclocking through BCLK. Also their NCLK is extremely low (same as for FP4 mobile parts), indicating a design restriction.
> 
> For obvious reasons there won´t be any Carrizo / Bristol Ridge based APUs for FM2+ socket.
> 
> ASUS and ASRock (at least) bioses already support these CPUs.


Are they the same IPC wise the Carrizo and Godavari?


----------



## The Stilt

Excavator has < 6% higher IPC on average than Steamroller (Kaveri / Godavari). In some cases the difference can be as high as 15% (due changes in caches), however there are also some cases where there is no difference. Excavator has twice the size L1 data cache compared to Steamroller, but half the size L2 cache with slightly faster latency.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> The 870K is available in china at JD.com, the local equivalent of amazon. 500 yuan, 77 US$
> I guess the guy selling in japan got them from China....
> 
> China is an important market for AMD. I hope when all stores there have full inventory we may see them in Europe or US...


Good catch. Yeah, I expect the Amazon reseller is moving chips that are currently exclusive to the Chinese market.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Excavator has < 6% higher IPC on average than Steamroller (Kaveri / Godavari). In some cases the difference can be as high as 15% (due changes in caches), however there are also some cases where there is no difference. Excavator has twice the size L1 data cache compared to Steamroller, but half the size L2 cache with slightly faster latency.


I hadn't noticed the differences in cache size and performance. That would probably explain why 3DPMRedux saw a 22% increase in performance on Carrizo vs. Kaveri. It mostly stays in-cache and has a fairly small working set, despite being a memory hog.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Excavator has < 6% higher IPC on average than Steamroller (Kaveri / Godavari). In some cases the difference can be as high as 15% (due changes in caches), however there are also some cases where there is no difference. Excavator has twice the size L1 data cache compared to Steamroller, but half the size L2 cache with slightly faster latency.


what is the highest operating frequency range on excavator? something like ~3.6-4Ghz?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> what is the highest operating frequency range on excavator? something like ~3.6-4Ghz?


3.6GHz already requires pretty high voltages. I´ve not been able to test the absolute limits, since the mobile parts are fully locked and the BCLK can be only raised to ~106MHz. Based just on the voltage scaling I would expect around 4.0 - 4.2GHz to be the ultimate limit with no energy efficiency what so ever left.

The FM2+ Carrizos will be clocked lower than any of the unlocked Kaveri / Godavari models.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hmm, I might be interested in a Carrizo FM2+ if it turbo's to 3.9... So we won't be able to overclock at all? Seems very Intel like.


----------



## jsc1973

It might actually be better to just get one of the last Kaveri/Godavari parts before AMD pushes them off the production line if the Excavator chips can't do better than 4.0-4.2. I've had a ton of success in the last 20 years with buying end-of-life AMD parts right before the fabs stop producing them. A lot of people on this site actually jumped on a deal like that when Newegg blew out a lot of AMD's last Deneb chips, selling them all as Phenom II 965 parts. It seemed like every one of those last Deneb's hit 4 GHz like child's play.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Yeah, but Kaveri seems to be a bad overclocker. If what they're saying about Carrizo is true, I'm thinking if you can get Carrizo up to 4.2~ you would be much better off.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Yeah, but Kaveri seems to be a bad overclocker. If what they're saying about Carrizo is true, I'm thinking if you can get Carrizo up to 4.2~ you would be much better off.


I've got Kaveri running at 4.5. If the difference is only five percent, that's not enough to even match. If I could get an FM2+ Carrizo up to 4.5, then I'd do it, but that's not likely based on what we're hearing.

Kaveri isn't really a bad overclocker, at least not the 860K's. Most of them will hit 4.5 if you use a top-end motherboard, and the Godavari 7870K's seem to do a bit better than that.

If the Carrizo can make it to 4.0-4.2 without needing an expensive motherboard, then it has value, though. To get the best out of an 860K, you have to drop $90 on an A88X-PRO or F2A88X-UP4, and that makes it not quite the value it would otherwise be.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've got Kaveri running at 4.5. If the difference is only five percent, that's not enough to even match. If I could get an FM2+ Carrizo up to 4.5, then I'd do it, but that's not likely based on what we're hearing.
> 
> Kaveri isn't really a bad overclocker, at least not the 860K's. Most of them will hit 4.5 if you use a top-end motherboard, and the Godavari 7870K's seem to do a bit better than that.
> 
> If the Carrizo can make it to 4.0-4.2 without needing an expensive motherboard, then it has value, though. To get the best out of an 860K, you have to drop $90 on an A88X-PRO or F2A88X-UP4, and that makes it not quite the value it would otherwise be.


Meh I have the A88xM and I'm stuck at 4.3. I do want to upgrade to a newer version, if they ever get around to releasing anything.

I just don't see how carrizo would be a worse overclocker, it's made on the same process.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> I just don't see how carrizo would be a worse overclocker, it's made on the same process.


It's the core "Excavator" and it's high density instruction library that keeps it from clocking as high as Kaveri


----------



## The Stilt

Carrizo doesn´t use the same process as Kaveri / Godavari. Kaveri / Godavari was the last design AMD used a customized process version. Carrizo is 28nm HPP, off the shelf process.

There are several reasons why Carrizo shouldn´t be able to reach similar clocks as Kaveri:

- Worse manufacturing process (off the shelf vs. custom)
- HD vs. HP/HS
- 17 cycle L2 cache (Steamroller should have ~12% Fmax advantage from the higher latency alone, since all 15h designs are purely L2 limited in terms of Fmax)


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Carrizo doesn´t use the same process as Kaveri / Godavari. Kaveri / Godavari was the last design AMD used a customized process version. Carrizo is 28nm HPP, off the shelf process.
> 
> There are several reasons why Carrizo shouldn´t be able to reach similar clocks as Kaveri:
> 
> - Worse manufacturing process (off the shelf vs. custom)
> - HD vs. HP/HS
> - 17 cycle L2 cache (Steamroller should have ~12% Fmax advantage from the higher latency alone, since all 15h designs are purely L2 limited in terms of Fmax)


I don't understand most of this. I thought Bristol Ridge is Carrizo and the leaks I saw were 95 watts, suggesting higher clocks...


----------



## The Stilt

For the FP4 platform at least, "Carrizo" and "Bristol Ridge" clocks are perfectly in line with the other parameters. "Bristol Ridge" will be available in >=35W configuration (for FP4 platform), where as "Carrizo" is only available at 15W TDP configuration. Obviously the extra 20W is going to increase the average and maximum frequencies significantly.


----------



## drmrlordx

The highest TDP listed in leaks for AM4 Bristol Ridge is 65W. The highest turbo will be 4.0 GHz (that's for the top-end SKU with a 3.6 GHz base clock).

For those who do not overclock, I think the top-end Bristol Ridge SKU may be an improvement over the 7870k in some respects. The iGPU is clocked higher, and it should perform better. For overclockers, things become less clear.

4.7 GHz Kaveri will outperform 4.2 GHz Bristol Ridge in most scenarios, assuming 4.2 is the max attainable clockspeed for Bristol Ridge. But I do not see Kaveri's iGPU outperforming Bristol Ridge's iGPU under any circumstance (due to memory bandwidth limitations).

AMD could surprise us, but I do not see Bristol Ridge as being a great leap forward.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> The highest TDP listed in leaks for AM4 Bristol Ridge is 65W. The highest turbo will be 4.0 GHz (that's for the top-end SKU with a 3.6 GHz base clock).
> 
> For those who do not overclock, I think the top-end Bristol Ridge SKU may be an improvement over the 7870k in some respects. The iGPU is clocked higher, and it should perform better. For overclockers, things become less clear.
> 
> 4.7 GHz Kaveri will outperform 4.2 GHz Bristol Ridge in most scenarios, assuming 4.2 is the max attainable clockspeed for Bristol Ridge. But I do not see Kaveri's iGPU outperforming Bristol Ridge's iGPU under any circumstance (due to memory bandwidth limitations).
> 
> AMD could surprise us, but I do not see Bristol Ridge as being a great leap forward.


Isn't Bristol Ridge just considered a stop gap?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Isn't Bristol Ridge just considered a stop gap?


Pretty much. Without little launches like that, AMD would have no new products for several quarters until the launch of Zen. The 7890k, 870k, and 880k were supposed to keep FM2+ afloat for a little while, but it seems like AMD has decided not to bother with those, at least not on the worldwide market anyway.


----------



## The Stilt

They are not launched yet. After they are they will be available as usual


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've got Kaveri running at 4.5. If the difference is only five percent, that's not enough to even match. If I could get an FM2+ Carrizo up to 4.5, then I'd do it, but that's not likely based on what we're hearing.
> 
> Kaveri isn't really a bad overclocker, at least not the 860K's. Most of them will hit 4.5 if you use a top-end motherboard, and the Godavari 7870K's seem to do a bit better than that.
> 
> If the Carrizo can make it to 4.0-4.2 without needing an expensive motherboard, then it has value, though. To get the best out of an 860K, you have to drop $90 on an A88X-PRO or F2A88X-UP4, and that makes it not quite the value it would otherwise be.


Why not just get an 8320E for $100 and a UD3P (particularly if one has a Microcenter and can get the $40 bundle price), running the chip at 4.5 or 4.6?

If you like you can even disable a module or two and go higher. I was able to boot at 5.3 with one module enabled on air. 5.1 with two. 5 with the whole chip enabled. On water the highest I managed to boot into Windows with (with my 360mm loop, 6W pump, and three Vardars in push) was 5.3 with all modules enabled. I was able to run the CPU-Z validation at 5.2 without a freeze. That was with safe voltages.

The downsides to the UD3P are that one can't boot past 22 multiplier (have to increase BCLK to get past 4.4), the small heatsink on the VRMs, and the throttling the board does under Linpack at anything past 4.5. But, Cinebench multi shows gains at 5 GHz so the throttling may not be an issue for real workloads outside, perhaps, of encoding, in the 4.7 - 4.8 range. The big issue is VRM cooling because they get hot at just 4.4.

I'm just not sure what the point of getting one of these APUs is, outside of small form factor requirements. It seems like the 8320E is a better bang for the buck since it's easy enough to disable modules to get clocks up without fancy cooling solutions.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Why not just get an 8320E for $100 and a UD3P (particularly if one has a Microcenter and can get the $40 bundle price), running the chip at 4.5 or 4.6?
> 
> If you like you can even disable a module or two and go higher. I was able to boot at 5.3 with one module enabled on air. 5.1 with two. 5 with the whole chip enabled. On water the highest I managed to boot into Windows with (with my 360mm loop, 6W pump, and three Vardars in push) was 5.3 with all modules enabled. I was able to run the CPU-Z validation at 5.2 without a freeze. That was with safe voltages.
> 
> The downsides to the UD3P are that one can't boot past 22 multiplier (have to increase BCLK to get past 4.4), the small heatsink on the VRMs, and the throttling the board does under Linpack at anything past 4.5. But, Cinebench multi shows gains at 5 GHz so the throttling may not be an issue for real workloads outside, perhaps, of encoding, in the 4.7 - 4.8 range. The big issue is VRM cooling because they get hot at just 4.4.
> 
> I'm just not sure what the point of getting one of these APUs is, outside of small form factor requirements. It seems like the 8320E is a better bang for the buck since it's easy enough to disable modules to get clocks up without fancy cooling solutions.


Pretty much all true. I had an FX-8350 and a UD3 for a very long time. I reached 4.85 GHz stable (21*231) and could boot as high as 5.1 GHz. Using the BCLK setting did generate better overclocks, even on the older 970A-UD3 model. If you can get an 8320E and a UD3P for $140, that's the way to go, but the vast majority of the country doesn't have a Microcenter handy.

The 860K comes on a more up-to-date platform and has a better CPU core with a higher per-core IPC. But it's also limited to four cores. No one's recommending against the FX, not at current prices, but the 860K's do have some things going for them, and they can be had for as little as $70 if you find a special. I scored mine for $69.99 on a Tiger Direct New Year special last New Year's Eve. After a year, I have no burning desire to replace it.


----------



## superstition222

I just wish there could be one last hurrah for this design with a die shrink on the AM4 platform while we wait for Summit Ridge. Won't happen, I know. But, it's unfortunate that we'll be stuck with so few cores for so long. That is if AM4 hits early as is rumored. It would be nice for the platform to have even one enthusiast-level CPU on offer.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> They are not launched yet. After they are they will be available as usual


Oh, so we will see them?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> They are not launched yet. After they are they will be available as usual


I have my doubts. The 870k is selling already, so that tells us a good bit about where AMD is serious about selling the chip. The 880k and 7890k were announced in August 2015. They seriously should have launched them in November in time for the Christmas season.

If those chips launch any later, is anyone even going to care?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> If those chips launch any later, is anyone even going to care?


Why wouldn't anyone care ? My FM2+ platform isn't going anywhere. Sure it would be nice to upgrade sooner, but even if they come out in March, I would still upgrade, cause I want the best for my dead socket.

Maybe they are just stretching it, since Zen probably won't come out by the end of 2016 (speculation), they just want something other to sell in that year in CPU area.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Why wouldn't anyone care ? My FM2+ platform isn't going anywhere. Sure it would be nice to upgrade sooner, but even if they come out in March, I would still upgrade, cause I want the best for my dead socket.


Too many folks who have FM2+ now are going to be interested in AM4+ either when Bristol Ridge launches or when Summit Ridge launches. Launching a new set of GV-A1 chips for FM2+ after AM4 is out is going to be targeting a conflicted market that is already rather small.

I would have considered a 7890k as an upgrade to my 7700k last month, but now that I know AM4 is just over the horizon, forgetaboutit.
Quote:


> Maybe they are just stretching it, since Zen probably won't come out by the end of 2016 (speculation), they just want something other to sell in that year in CPU area.


Zen isn't coming until Q4, but Bristol Ridge may be out as early as March 2016. Anyone looking to jump on the AM4 platform early will have the opportunity to do that instead of spending more money on FM2+.


----------



## jsc1973

There would be people who would be interested if new FM2+ products became available. Switching to AM4 before Zen comes out isn't something very many people are going to do, simply because we all fell for that four years ago when AM3+ motherboards became available and AMD encouraged everyone to go ahead get ready for Bulldozer. A lot of people were stuck with early AM3+ boards and nothing useful to upgrade to until Piledriver finally showed up more than a year later.

I'm not touching AM4 (and the concomitant need to buy new DDR4 memory) until Zen shows up and proves to be good as advertised, and therefore I'm not interested in Bristol Ridge AM4 parts. Bring Excavator to FM2+ like they promised they would long ago, and I'll be interested.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I support AMD, but I'm not buying into their next-generation platform sight unseen. If Zen sucks, then my next upgrade will be to Intel.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I'm not touching AM4 (and the concomitant need to buy new DDR4 memory) until Zen shows up and proves to be good as advertised


I'm more concerned about the quality of the motherboards.

Since AMD probably won't be smart and implement the Seal of Quality _The Stilt_ suggested they use (and which I also suggested here, not knowing that he had floated the idea several times in the past) not only is power delivery a question mark, BIOS quality is as well. Of course, later revisions of boards can introduce new problems (e.g. UD3P 2.0's 22.5 and higher multiplier "no boot" bug).

However, I wouldn't want to get a first generation board early only to see a big improvement come out when Summit Ridge chips hit.


----------



## coffeerox

I'm more interested in Zen than anything. I won't be buying the motherboards until CPU becomes available. Until then, I'm not sure if I want to upgrade to an 880K b/c I'm sure I can tough it out on the 860K until Zen. I'm confident in Zen (I feel like the only one lol). I have a good expectation of what general level of performance it'll be at. With Sandy Bridge IPC and clock speeds above what Sandy Bridge released at, I think Zen will be as good as Haswell on launch.

They'll likely release tiers similar to Intel with DC, DC+HT, QC, QC+HT, 8C+HT and certain chips being unlocked. I hope they're all unlocked b/c AMD is known for that but if not, that's fine too as long as performance is fine on it's own.

Either way, I'm not buying Intel lol! They can take a hike for all I care. I'm not really concerned with buying "the best". I would rather go with the company with the ethical business practices and lower prices. Back in '08, I went with Sony for the PS3 despite it being 599.99. I knew that their business practices were more ethical and they had a better 1st party franchise ownership. They cultivated that and turned it into the winner of that console gen. I would like to think I'm on a similar path with AMD.

I like what they are doing with Radeon (their GPUs bar none offer more value than any Geforce in a comparable price bracket) and Zen was designed by one of the best in the CPU business. AMD is not the best by any means (even after Greenland/Zen), but they offer the products with the price points I want to buy.


----------



## superstition222

Keep in mind that Zen means at least two things. Summit Ridge (8 core FX) is only one of those.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Keep in mind that Zen means at least two things. Summit Ridge (8 core FX) is only one of those.


FX series Zen is UP TO 8. Not just 8.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Anyone looking to jump on the AM4 platform early will have the opportunity to do that instead of spending more money on FM2+.


Well fortunately for me I'm not eager to jump on to a new platform, gain none CPU performance increase, spend money on DDR4, when I can do all that when the Zen comes out, is tested and DDR4 is cheaper.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> However, I wouldn't want to get a first generation board early only to see a big improvement come out when Summit Ridge chips hit.


My guess is that there will be a bunch of lesser boards that will have underbuilt sockets/VRMs that will be suspect. Sure, Summit Ridge is "only" supposed to be 95w, but overclock it and . . . yeah.

Then there will be a few higher-end boards that will be Summit Ridge ready out the gate, maybe with a UEFI update. Probably one from Asus and Gigabyte, if FM2+ is any indicator.


----------



## chrisjames61

Just perusing Newegg I see DDR4 is cheaper than I thought. Looks like it will come down to DDR3 pricing in the not too distant future.


----------



## FlailScHLAMP

AM4 has me concerned.

unified socket, great that is convenient, but under the surface how is going to look.

APUS are coming out first on AM4.. after Fm2+ i've very very weary of this move. Reasons as followed.

on a whole 80% of FM2+ motherboards were under-built, not talking in terms of features but in terms of component quality if this trend continues for APU boards, we are going to see ALOT like and astounding over abundance of either blown up boards by cheap skate dropping in Zen to a board ment for APUs, or the bios on those board will limit zen capabilities leading to more AMD bashing.

the Users that switch from FX8/9 series to Zen won't generally want the added board space of the iGPU traces, unless they split it up into different chip sets which will lead to amd bashing from the uninformed.(iirc intel got bashed for the same thing in the core2 775 days[years]) old chipset boards not supporting newer models in the same socket.

to get around this all the APU boards (or all am4 baords) would have to be over built to be able to manage top end zen as a drop in. this will come at a large cost (i.e ud3p vs ud5/7 prices or asus evo prices vs tuf or ROG prices)

AM4 board will not be cheap, 'm fully expecting x99/z170 price range to be the norm for AM4 boards. this makes this unified socket that much more of a gamble.

they need to come out with a no compromising swinger for the aimed market. where ever these products are placed they will have to be on top, in performance and price to performance ratio to make it relevant.

and if they decide to segment the socket greatly with chip-set for non-oc APU boards, OC apu board, non-oc Zen board, and oc zen boards. they will have a tough time making sales because,
stores will refuse to stock full ranges like they do with Intel, simply due to the hard sell of last generation.

AMD really needs to nail it out of the park and loss lead long enough to be able to get Zen+ out on time or potentially early. they must fight the urge IF they manage to knock it out of the park to not really raise prices. it will only be a knock out with the right price to performance ratio, with raised prices and not performance that ratio become meaningless. all Intel has to do is put out a new SKU with enabled L4 Edram and AMD is in trouble yet again.


----------



## The Stilt

I have a feeling that AM4 necessary won´t be too "high-end"... I expect their designation to remain quite same as with FM2/FM2+.


----------



## FlailScHLAMP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I have a feeling that AM4 necessary won´t be too "high-end"... I expect their designation to remain quite same as with FM2/FM2+.


this doesn't seem like an idea that would push AMD out of the budget option, and only really solidify it.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Either way, I'm not buying Intel lol! They can take a hike for all I care. I'm not really concerned with buying "the best". I would rather go with the company with the ethical business practices and lower prices. Back in '08, I went with Sony for the PS3 despite it being 599.99. I knew that their business practices were more ethical and they had a better 1st party franchise ownership. They cultivated that and turned it into the winner of that console gen. I would like to think I'm on a similar path with AMD.


Was it ethical of AMD to market Bulldozer the way they did, make everyone think it was a high-performance part, and get people to buy new motherboards supporting it months before it was ready, and then deliver an embarrassingly poor POS that was slower than the Phenom II's it replaced? Was it ethical on their part to never deliver the promised Steamroller FX and Carrizo FM2+ parts that people assumed they would be able to upgrade to?

I'll buy AMD parts if they're good enough to serve my purposes, because they cost less and because we're all better off if AMD stays in business. If AMD had gone out of business 13 years ago, we'd all be running 250W TDP Netburst single-core CPU's. As the last five years have proven, Intel doesn't lift a finger to truly improve its desktop CPU's unless AMD makes them. I won't buy AMD based on any supposed moral high ground, because AMD hasn't earned that. Nor will I invest a dime in any future platform of theirs until I see it live up to their claims, not after the Bulldozer fiasco.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> on a whole 80% of FM2+ motherboards were under-built, not talking in terms of features but in terms of component quality if this trend continues for APU boards, we are going to see ALOT like and astounding over abundance of either blown up boards by cheap skate dropping in Zen to a board ment for APUs, or the bios on those board will limit zen capabilities leading to more AMD bashing.


Second-rate motherboards flooding the market has been an AMD problem for a lot longer than that. Manufacturers have been selling cut-rate boards for AMD platforms ever since they broke with Intel socket infrastructure with Super-7 back in 1998. It's a problem they've never been able to solve, and it's always hurt AMD's market perception. Even the original Athlon and A64 had poor quality boards launch when they were released, and those were top-market parts that were better than anything Intel could offer at the time.

FM2+ boards aren't really a problem. There are three really good FM2+ boards, and one of them was available as soon as FM2+ came out, and there are also good mid-range boards for that socket. Any DIY'er who buys a budget FM2+ board and tries to overclock a 7850/7870K or 860K to the moon has only themselves to blame when it fails. The under-built boards were designed to be used with budget PC's, not PC's built by overclockers. And for the most part, they serve their purpose just fine. The actual market segment where putrid quality motherboards flooded the market and are a problem is AM3+. One of the reasons AMD had to haul out the 8320e and 8370e is because of people who bought, and still buy, poor quality AM3+ boards that can't handle the power draw of the original spec Vishera processors.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Was it ethical of AMD to market Bulldozer the way they did, make everyone think it was a high-performance part, and get people to buy new motherboards supporting it months before it was ready, and then deliver an embarrassingly poor POS that was slower than the Phenom II's it replaced? Was it ethical on their part to never deliver the promised Steamroller FX and Carrizo FM2+ parts that people assumed they would be able to upgrade to?


Personally I'm not going to blame AMD for thinking ahead and making something focused around multithreading. The CPU was ahead of it's time. If multithreading was developed more, then the 8150 would've been seen as a high performance part. Instead, the industry chose to stagnate and that gave Intel the clear direction to focus on IPC instead. Intel wouldn't have the success it has today if AMD hadn't shown them that software developers didn't know how or didn't want to go the direction of multithreading.

I don't see where you get the idea that AMD promised Steamroller FX or Carrizo FM2+. FX series was killed and Carrizo was intended as mobile product.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I don't see where you get the idea that AMD promised Steamroller FX or Carrizo FM2+. FX series was killed and Carrizo was intended as mobile product.


Both of those products were originally on AMD's roadmaps and were cancelled long after there was a large installed base of AM3+ and FM2+ users expecting to be able to upgrade to those parts.

And don't make excuses for Bulldozer. It sucks even now, with multithreaded software much more common than it was back then. Thuban and Piledriver are better than they were at their introduction, because they can be better utilized now. Bulldozer still underperforms, because it was just bad. AMD screwed the pooch and knew it, but they'd gone so far with it that they decided to release it. The CEO decided he'd rather screw over millions of customers and keep his job for a while longer than just kill the x1x0 series and continue with Phenom II until Piledriver was ready.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> AM4 has me concerned.
> 
> the Users that switch from FX8/9 series to Zen won't generally want the added board space of the iGPU traces, unless they split it up into different chip sets which will lead to amd bashing from the uninformed.(iirc intel got bashed for the same thing in the core2 775 days[years]) old chipset boards not supporting newer models in the same socket.


I don't think the additional trace/logic space to accommodate iGPUs will bother anyone. Intel has all that on every motherboard since . . . at least 2013? Nobody pitched a fit over it.
Quote:


> to get around this all the APU boards (or all am4 baords) would have to be over built to be able to manage top end zen as a drop in. this will come at a large cost (i.e ud3p vs ud5/7 prices or asus evo prices vs tuf or ROG prices)


Summit Ridge is rumoured to be a 95w processor @ stock. That isn't terribly demanding. Overclocker boards will need to be overbuilt, so a few confused/cheap people will try to put Summit Ridge on some $50 ASRock board from March 2016 and OC and . . . get disappointing results, but that's their fault. Also, the A88x-Pro launched at something like $120 so that ain't too bad. I got lucky and got my A88x-Pro for $53 in Nov 2014, but I can honestly say the board would have been worth $120 at that time considering how well it has performed. Anyone who gets the AM4 equivalent in March-June 2016 for $120 will be getting a good deal.
Quote:


> they need to come out with a no compromising swinger for the aimed market. where ever these products are placed they will have to be on top, in performance and price to performance ratio to make it relevant


Then let's point to the A88x-Pro and the UP4. Neither one of them sells for more than $100 currently, and both are (or have been) available for less. They're top-tier OC boards that can push 95w TDP chips to their limits, and could probably go beyond those limits if the chips would go there. Sure there's a few specialized widgets that don't work on those boards (M.2 support, quad Xfire/SLI, etc) but M.2 should be easy for Asus and Gigabyte to add at minimal cost, and massive multi-GPU is pretty niche.

Bottom line, the $100-120 price range is cheap by Intel Z170 standards, and in that price range both Asus and Gigabyte have given us boards that certainly look like they'd be perfect for Bristol Ridge/Summit Ridge crossover boards. All those companies have to do is execute properly and bring us AM4 boards built essentially the same way: solid VRMs, overbuilt sockets, competent design everywhere else. The UP4 sure needs a better UEFI though.
Quote:


> and if they decide to segment the socket greatly with chip-set for non-oc APU boards, OC apu board, non-oc Zen board, and oc zen boards. they will have a tough time making sales because,
> stores will refuse to stock full ranges like they do with Intel, simply due to the hard sell of last generation.


I don't think they'll have to do that, for the reasons stated above. FM2+ ought to have taught the mobo OEMs many lessons. We'll see who chose to learn and who did not.


----------



## FlailScHLAMP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> AM4 has me concerned.
> 
> the Users that switch from FX8/9 series to Zen won't generally want the added board space of the iGPU traces, unless they split it up into different chip sets which will lead to amd bashing from the uninformed.(iirc intel got bashed for the same thing in the core2 775 days[years]) old chipset boards not supporting newer models in the same socket.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the additional trace/logic space to accommodate iGPUs will bother anyone. Intel has all that on every motherboard since . . . at least 2013? Nobody pitched a fit over it.
Click to expand...

lga 1366, lga 2011, and lga 2011-3 do not have igpu traces...
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> to get around this all the APU boards (or all am4 baords) would have to be over built to be able to manage top end zen as a drop in. this will come at a large cost (i.e ud3p vs ud5/7 prices or asus evo prices vs tuf or ROG prices)
> 
> 
> 
> Summit Ridge is rumoured to be a 95w processor @ stock. That isn't terribly demanding. Overclocker boards will need to be overbuilt, so a few confused/cheap people will try to put Summit Ridge on some $50 ASRock board from March 2016 and OC and . . . get disappointing results, but that's their fault. Also, the A88x-Pro launched at something like $120 so that ain't too bad. I got lucky and got my A88x-Pro for $53 in Nov 2014, but I can honestly say the board would have been worth $120 at that time considering how well it has performed. Anyone who gets the AM4 equivalent in March-June 2016 for $120 will be getting a good deal.
Click to expand...

8 core, 16 thread on 14nm @ 95w tdp? I call shenanigans.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> they need to come out with a no compromising swinger for the aimed market. where ever these products are placed they will have to be on top, in performance and price to performance ratio to make it relevant
> 
> 
> 
> Then let's point to the A88x-Pro and the UP4. Neither one of them sells for more than $100 currently, and both are (or have been) available for less. They're top-tier OC boards that can push 95w TDP chips to their limits, and could probably go beyond those limits if the chips would go there. Sure there's a few specialized widgets that don't work on those boards (M.2 support, quad Xfire/SLI, etc) but M.2 should be easy for Asus and Gigabyte to add at minimal cost, and massive multi-GPU is pretty niche.
> 
> Bottom line, the $100-120 price range is cheap by Intel Z170 standards, and in that price range both Asus and Gigabyte have given us boards that certainly look like they'd be perfect for Bristol Ridge/Summit Ridge crossover boards. All those companies have to do is execute properly and bring us AM4 boards built essentially the same way: solid VRMs, overbuilt sockets, competent design everywhere else. The UP4 sure needs a better UEFI though.
Click to expand...

you do realize that you can count the amount of amd boards with good vrms on boths hands







Being used to an AM3+ board, even the best fm2+ left me utterly disappointed.
like Jsc1973 mentioned. bad boards plague amd's efforts and AMD doesn't help essentially cancelling Steamroller and excavator on AM3. {yes this was on the road map, this is why alot of kaveri's sold initially and the back lash when it didn't live up}
Quote:


> and if they decide to segment the socket greatly with chip-set for non-oc APU boards, OC apu board, non-oc Zen board, and oc zen boards. they will have a tough time making sales because,
> stores will refuse to stock full ranges like they do with Intel, simply due to the hard sell of last generation.
> 
> I don't think they'll have to do that, for the reasons stated above. FM2+ ought to have taught the mobo OEMs many lessons. We'll see who chose to learn and who did not.


have you seen the last board gigbyte put out for the am3+ or Msi's last offering? that came out this year..

they have learned nothing, the public still buys them. albeit slowly but they move somehow.


----------



## The Stilt

The display interface on APU compatible socket actually doesn´t require too many pins. In FM2+ the three DP 1.2 outputs require 31 pins in total. These signals are then converted to HDMI or DVI by a signal switch placed on the motherboard. DRAM signals require the highest number (relatively) of pins. The signals alone require 241 pins and in addition the supply voltage and termination voltages are required. The thing which is most likely reponsible for the increased contact count in AM4 is the smaller manufacturing process.

Even if the TDP remains the same, they need to increase the number of voltage & ground contants to account the higher current. A chip made on a smaller process usually has significantly lower operating voltage, which means that the same power draw at lower voltage results in higher current.

AM4 won´t be a monster socket in the same magnitude as Intel Socket R or AMD C32 / G34, quite far from it.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> bad boards plague amd's efforts


The Stilt suggested, twice, that they implement a Seal of Approval - a label that clearly means a strong minimum VRM quality has been adhered to. I made a topic about this idea and he mentioned that he had floated the idea twice in the past.

Nintendo rolled out their seal to give consumers confidence after the second video game crash. The NES changed the situation from stores not even wanting to stock a console to console gaming, on a NES, being a huge hit. AMD needs to change attitudes regarding its brand and such a seal could help.

There can be tiers just like with 80 Plus: Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. This would take advantage of the existing power supply 80 Plus mindshare which consumers are already familiar with.

• The Bronze standard would be for budget purposes (APUs, lower core count CPUs). It would have four digital CPU VRMs as the minimum with a heatsink, plus a RAM phase.

• The Silver would be the minimum for Summit Ridge (8 core FX) and higher-power APUs (if there are any). It would have a minimum of 6 real digital CPU phases (as on an ASUS Evo) or a doubled 4 (as on UD3P), and a RAM phase.

• Gold would have at least 8 quality digital CPU phases (not doubled 4) and two RAM phases, as one finds on a Crosshair or Sabertooth. The heatsink for the VRMs would have a copper base.

• Platinum would be anything that exceeds the gold standard, like a doubled eight phase.

So, all levels would have a heatsink on the VRMs and there wouldn't be any more 3 phase boards or boards with low-grade analog stuff. Any board above bronze would also have more copper if that helps things and a thicker PCB (none of those flimsy boards).

Alternatively, there could be two levels: One for anything below Summit Ridge and one for Summit Ridge.


----------



## The Stilt

TBH, I don´t think it will be required for AM4. The days of monster AM3+ high-end systems are behind us, in every way.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> TBH, I don´t think it will be required for AM4. The days of monster AM3+ high-end systems are behind us, in every way.


What about the rumored 220W APU?

AMD is probably not going to want to abandon overclocking and if it wants people to have a better experience than they have had with AM3 it needs to crack down on gimpy boards and consumer confusion.


----------



## FlailScHLAMP

so here is the problem with seals of approval.

AMD doesn't make motherboards. Period.

the outsource these reference projects to Sapphire. (or at-least they did prior to FM2+ , i don't know bout that socket, but seeing as apu RND was done[or mostly] in Canada its not too far of an assumption they still went to sapphire. i just haven't seen any proof)

I don't think any of the board partners would sign on to being told what to do and there for not having much control over their margins, likely at that point having to source alot of things from sapphire themselfs, not something i see any board partner signing on too.

the board partners are in control of the general overclock abiltiy of the boards, not AMD.

the only possible implementation that would be possible without losing partners is a unified 3rd party database, or AMD stepping up and doing a QVL for more than just ram.

EDIT: not giving the enthusiast segment anything would be a recipe for disaster IMHO. they need to be able to keep their users from going to intel for the top end performance. if they don't they are admitting defeat and giving a clear sign that they should not be invested in. this coming from someone who owns 3 amd cpus (er 2 fx and 1 A10)

edit2: massive apu? no thanks. when igpgpu usage becomes a real thing for the everyday user outside MSoffice computations, I'd still like to have independent control over what card i put in too use for gpgpu


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> What about the rumored 220W APU?
> 
> AMD is probably not going to want to abandon overclocking and if it wants people to have a better experience than they have had with AM3 it needs to crack down on gimpy boards and consumer confusion.


I´d say the 220W APU is indeed nothing but a rumor, at least as a consumer product.

I also recon AMD basically decided to abandon overclocking at the very moment they decided / were forced to go with 14nm LPP.

Or at least that´s what I think.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> so here is the problem with seals of approval.
> 
> AMD doesn't make motherboards. Period.
> 
> the outsource these reference projects to Sapphire. (or at-least they did prior to FM2+ , i don't know bout that socket, but seeing as apu RND was done[or mostly] in Canada its not too far of an assumption they still went to sapphire. i just haven't seen any proof)
> 
> I don't think any of the board partners would sign on to being told what to do and there for not having much control over their margins,


The impact would be marginal. Requiring a cheap bit of aluminum (a heatsink) and the end of low-grade VRMs is not much to ask. The whole industry stopped using liquid caps and such.

Besides, there is competition in the board business. If a company balks then AMD will be able to find someone else who is willing to support the seal.


----------



## FlailScHLAMP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> What about the rumored 220W APU?
> 
> AMD is probably not going to want to abandon overclocking and if it wants people to have a better experience than they have had with AM3 it needs to crack down on gimpy boards and consumer confusion.
> 
> 
> 
> I´d say the 220W APU is indeed nothing but a rumor, at least as a consumer product.
> 
> I also recon AMD basically decided to abandon overclocking at the very moment they decided / were forced to go with 14nm LPP.
> 
> Or at least that´s what I think.
Click to expand...

14nm LPP looks to be better than the 28nm shp fm2+ is on..


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlailScHLAMP*
> 
> 14nm LPP looks to be better than the 28nm shp fm2+ is on..


Based on what? Apple A9?

- Apple abandoned 14nm LPx for A9X and A10, over 16nm FF+
- nVidia chose 16nm FF+ for all of their products
- Intel uses two of their own 14nm variants, high performance (P1272) for CPUs

AMD will be the only one using the 14nm LPP along with some Chinese ARM SoC companies. Or a low power targeted process in the first place. Their competition did the right thing and chose high performance.

The 28nm CHP / HPP used for Kaveri / Godavari and Carrizo is definitely less dense and less power efficient, but I would bet it is able to clock significantly higher than the 14nm LPP will. Not that the 28nm CHP / HPP would clock extremely well either.

High performance processes exist for a reason, and for the same reason AMD has in the past always used the most high performance targeted process available. The only exception being the 14h APUs which used TSMC 40nm bulk process. These were released at =< 1750MHz clocks and even still some shortcuts were taken (1/2 L2 rate).


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Based on what? Apple A9?
> 
> - Apple abandoned 14nm LPx for A9X and A10, over 16nm FF+
> - nVidia chose 16nm FF+ for all of their products
> - Intel uses two of their own 14nm variants, high performance (P1272) for CPUs
> 
> AMD will be the only one using the 14nm LPP along with some Chinese ARM SoC companies. Or a low power targeted process in the first place. Their competition did the right thing and chose high performance.
> 
> The 28nm CHP / HPP used for Kaveri / Godavari and Carrizo is definitely less dense and less power efficient, but I would bet it is able to clock significantly higher than the 14nm LPP will. Not that the 28nm CHP / HPP would clock extremely well either.
> 
> High performance processes exist for a reason, and for the same reason AMD has in the past always used the most high performance targeted process available. The only exception being the 14h APUs which used TSMC 40nm bulk process. These were released at =< 1750MHz clocks and even still some shortcuts were taken (1/2 L2 rate).


Isn't the low power node only for some chips and not Summit Ridge? Rumor has it that AMD is also going to be using Samsung.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Isn't the low power node only for some chips and not Summit Ridge? Rumor has it that AMD is also going to be using Samsung.


Samsung / GlobalFoundries only has low power nodes: 14nm LPE and LPP.

The LPE was intended for early adopters / for prototyping and the 14nm LPP is the enhanced (final) version of it. Since AMD (Lisa Su) has stated that AMD abandoned customized manufacturing processes starting from Carrizo, there is no other option for the manufacturing process but 14nm LPP.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Samsung / GlobalFoundries only has low power nodes: 14nm LPE and LPP.
> 
> The LPE was intended for early adopters / for prototyping and the 14nm LPP is the enhanced (final) version of it. Since AMD (Lisa Su) has stated that AMD abandoned customized manufacturing processes starting from Carrizo, there is no other option for the manufacturing process but 14nm LPP.


So you're saying that, once again, AMD is going to be non-competitive in the enthusiast space because of an inadequate process?









So much for hoping for Summit Ridge to close the gap, then. I hope for their sake that they can at least get some enterprise money.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> So you're saying that, once again, AMD is going to be non-competitive in the enthusiast space because of an inadequate process?


Inadequate based on what? We haven't seen what 14nm lpp can do, and there's still disagreement as to whether Samsung used 14LPE or 14LPP to make the A9. I've heard more than a few people swear up and down that Samsung used 14nmLPE. Not that the A9 on 14lpe/lpp had any problems anyway! It keeps up nicely with TSMC's 16nm Finfet+ in the A9, whichever process it is.

TSMC is picking up business for 16nm Finfet+ for numerous reasons, not all of them having to do with performance.

Based on the scant analysis I've seen of Summit Ridge, the estimates are for a base clock of ~3.3 GHz with turbo up to 4 GHz (maybe). Given that Summit Ridge is supposed to be an 8c/16t chip, that ain't bad.

I would much rather see AMD remain committed to using SOI and utilize IBM's progression from 22nm PDSOI into the future. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing Zen on 22nm PDSOI! I just don't know who, if anyone, is actually keeping the SOI train going. I don't know who IBM will contract with to produce POWER9 (GF?) nor do I know which process they'll use for it.

Regardless, 14LPP should be a major improvement, overall, from 28nm shp.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

So I managed to clock my CPU to 4.1GHz stable... with EasyTune. I got tired of having to reset my CMOS whenever I tried tweaking at the BIOS. Unfortunately my RAM has to be downclocked to 1333MHz.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> So I managed to clock my CPU to 4.1GHz stable... with EasyTune. I got tired of having to reset my CMOS whenever I tried tweaking at the BIOS. Unfortunately my RAM has to be downclocked to 1333MHz.


What are your voltages ? My BIOS also freezes when I don't give CPU enough juice, but I usually get in fast enough to increase voltage or reset BIOS normally, before the freeze. Shame about your RAM underlock, 860k notices the RAM speed, even if it's not that big of a deal, it is noticeable to me.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

CPU-Z reports 1.368v on load.


----------



## coffeerox

Can you at least adjust RAM only in BIOS?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So who would be faster a 860K @ Stock vs 955 X4 @ 4.2GHz?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Can you at least adjust RAM only in BIOS?


PC wouldn't load after saving settings. Have to reset CMOS to load up Windows.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Samsung / GlobalFoundries only has low power nodes: 14nm LPE and LPP.
> 
> The LPE was intended for early adopters / for prototyping and the 14nm LPP is the enhanced (final) version of it. Since AMD (Lisa Su) has stated that AMD abandoned customized manufacturing processes starting from Carrizo, there is no other option for the manufacturing process but 14nm LPP.


Is it possible that they could be going GF 16nm for ZEN and using Samsung 14nm for arm(k12?)? Also would it be beneficial for AMD to go with 14nm LPP even if they can't reach higher clocks if they can beat Intel in power consumption clock for clock? They might lose some overclockers, but for servers and OEM's they would start gaining market share again.


----------



## The Stilt

Most likely Zen will be 14nm LPP, but no-one can say for sure until AMD makes an official statement. I would expect AMD to manufacture everything at Samsung and / or GlobalFoundries. They´ve already made GPU tape-outs on 14nm LPE. Since all the GPUs have previously been made at TSMC, I believe AMD is trying to concentrate the manufacturing of all of their products to the same company.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So who would be faster a 860K @ Stock vs 955 X4 @ 4.2GHz?


That's close. My guess is that they would probably trade blows. Anything that can use newer instructions would be a clear win for the 860K, though. Anything that likes L3 cache will favor the Phenom II. Unlike the FX, the L3 in Phenom II CPU's is actually worth having.

Overclock the 860K and it beats a Deneb easily, even at 4.2 GHz. Put it against a Thuban and it would depend on how many threads the software could use.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That's close. My guess is that they would probably trade blows. Anything that can use newer instructions would be a clear win for the 860K, though. Anything that likes L3 cache will favor the Phenom II. Unlike the FX, the L3 in Phenom II CPU's is actually worth having.
> 
> Overclock the 860K and it beats a Deneb easily, even at 4.2 GHz. Put it against a Thuban and it would depend on how many threads the software could use.


I will try them both @ 4.2GHz.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> PC wouldn't load after saving settings. Have to reset CMOS to load up Windows.


Ouch, can't say thats a healthy BIOS behavior lol. 1.368v is awesome for 4.1, you have a good chip there. Have you tried updating your BIOS then trying it again ? I wonder how much you can squeeze from that chip, since you have a top of the line board.

Edit: If you set your voltage waaay to low in the first place, I guess it would be normal for windows not to boot. What happens when you tweak the voltage around ?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Ouch, can't say thats a healthy BIOS behavior lol. 1.368v is awesome for 4.1, you have a good chip there. Have you tried updating your BIOS then trying it again ? I wonder how much you can squeeze from that chip, since you have a top of the line board.
> 
> Edit: If you set your voltage waaay to low in the first place, I guess it would be normal for windows not to boot. What happens when you tweak the voltage around ?


Meh. Mine is 1.3625 for 3.7-4.1 and I can't hit 4.4, not even with northbridge oc's.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Ouch, can't say thats a healthy BIOS behavior lol. 1.368v is awesome for 4.1, you have a good chip there. Have you tried updating your BIOS then trying it again ? I wonder how much you can squeeze from that chip, since you have a top of the line board.
> 
> Edit: If you set your voltage waaay to low in the first place, I guess it would be normal for windows not to boot. What happens when you tweak the voltage around ?


Updating my BIOS to the latest would make my PC unstable (see a few pages back). F6 is the only stable version I can use with my CPU.

I'm getting cornered overcloking this chip. ;-;


----------



## TinoArg

Carrizo based Athlon X4 coming to FM2+??



http://wccftech.com/amd-carrizo-athlon-desktop-cpus/


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Carrizo based Athlon X4 coming to FM2+??
> 
> 
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-carrizo-athlon-desktop-cpus/


Wow, who would have known


----------



## mcspawnagain

I DONT SPEAK AMD WELL WHATS CARIZO? sorry didn't see the link thats flippen
good

Gigabyte F288X-UP4 WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
AMD Athlon X4 860K Windows 10 pro 64 bit
MSI R9 380 4GB Gamer Corsair k70 cherry blue
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2 Mionix NAOS 8200
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> Updating my BIOS to the latest would make my PC unstable (see a few pages back). F6 is the only stable version I can use with my CPU.
> 
> I'm getting cornered overcloking this chip. ;-;


hey man iam not entirely familiar but would like to point out in most
cinerios stock clock and good video will play some good #s

Gigabyte F288X-UP4 WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
AMD Athlon X4 860K Windows 10 pro 64 bit
MSI R9 380 4GB Gamer Corsair k70 cherry blue
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2 Mionix NAOS 8200
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"
i actually have mine running on cool and quiet mode iam pretty happy with my pc also my thermals have seriously dropped down to 22 deg. c in windows with my stock cooler iam running a system software called AIDA 64 and it handles any kind of stress you can think of has OSD so you can monitor the best program 3rd party i have seen


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Carrizo based Athlon X4 coming to FM2+??


Yes. The Stilt has been dropping hints about that for over a month.

Though also notice the 870k and 880k on that list of supported CPUs . . . don't get your hopes up too high that the Carrizo Athlons will be available anywhere but in limited markets (China, maybe some other Asian countries).


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> I would much rather see AMD remain committed to using SOI and utilize IBM's progression from 22nm PDSOI into the future. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing Zen on 22nm PDSOI! I just don't know who, if anyone, is actually keeping the SOI train going. I don't know who IBM will contract with to produce POWER9 (GF?) nor do I know which process they'll use for it.


I've heard IBM's process is "too expensive" but I don't know the specifics.


----------



## Robenger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Yes. The Stilt has been dropping hints about that for over a month.
> 
> Though also notice the 870k and 880k on that list of supported CPUs . . . don't get your hopes up too high that the Carrizo Athlons will be available anywhere but in limited markets (China, maybe some other Asian countries).


Why do you have to crush my dreams?


----------



## Kuivamaa

Peculiar choice of nomenclature, btw. I get Kaveri and Godavari being part of the same 800 series as they use the same SR core, but one would expect Carrizo to be designated differently being XV.


----------



## Poprin

Hello fellow 860k owners, thought I would create an account on here finally as I seem to frequently utilise this site but never contribute. I recently took leave of my senses and sold my SandyBridge i7-2600 because it was getting on a bit and 'because reasons' bought an Athlon 860k. My reasoning being I can't decide on a new processor line to be my new baby (Skylake just aint doin it for me) and am hoping for an interesting offering from AMD at some point this year.

Just wanted to share my experience with you; for £56 I think quite frankly the 860k is a seriously under-rated chip. So far it has been impressing me no end. It uses roughly the same amount of power as my old i7, clearly in raw computing tasks it is no where near the performance but for gaming I am using the same card I owned before (GTX 770) and in benchmarks the 860k is only losing between 6-3 FPS on average v's my i7.

I set about 'optimising' the chip (don't like to say overclock because I'm more obsessed with efficiency than outright speed) and I've settled on a 4.3ghz overclock using a Corsair H90 cooler on an AsRock fm2a88m-Ex4+ motherboard. The chip thermals are superb and I'm seeing a max of 51c after several hours of Prime95 blend. The clock is definitely not limited by thermal ceiling, I think I have hit the max that the board can handle comfortably. I can get the frequency higher but as soon as it hits 4.4ghz with enough voltage for stability I start seeing a significant increase in the variance of my results using Intel Burn Test (basically the speed of test completion starts to fluctuate wildly suggesting to me some kind of throttling). I'm attributing this to hot VRM's on my board as it unfortunately doesn't come equipped with a heatsink, it's either this or simply the limitation of it's 4 phase design.

I would be interested to hear how other people approach overclocking and if anyone has had any joy with RAM overclocking on this board as almost any change for me from the XMP specs results in the board not posting!


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Peculiar choice of nomenclature, btw. I get Kaveri and Godavari being part of the same 800 series as they use the same SR core, but one would expect Carrizo to be designated differently being XV.


Carrizo parts do have the odd (xx5) SKUs though. Besides, 900-series was already taken.
But I do agree, their naming policy is extremely confusing.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Peculiar choice of nomenclature, btw. I get Kaveri and Godavari being part of the same 800 series as they use the same SR core, but one would expect Carrizo to be designated differently being XV.


And the last gen Mullins with Puma+ cores is called Carizzo-L


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poprin*
> 
> Hello fellow 860k owners, thought I would create an account on here finally as I seem to frequently utilise this site but never contribute. I recently took leave of my senses and sold my SandyBridge i7-2600 because it was getting on a bit and 'because reasons' bought an Athlon 860k. My reasoning being I can't decide on a new processor line to be my new baby (Skylake just aint doin it for me) and am hoping for an interesting offering from AMD at some point this year.
> 
> Just wanted to share my experience with you; for £56 I think quite frankly the 860k is a seriously under-rated chip. So far it has been impressing me no end. It uses roughly the same amount of power as my old i7, clearly in raw computing tasks it is no where near the performance but for gaming I am using the same card I owned before (GTX 770) and in benchmarks the 860k is only losing between 6-3 FPS on average v's my i7.
> 
> I set about 'optimising' the chip (don't like to say overclock because I'm more obsessed with efficiency than outright speed) and I've settled on a 4.3ghz overclock using a Corsair H90 cooler on an AsRock fm2a88m-Ex4+ motherboard. The chip thermals are superb and I'm seeing a max of 51c after several hours of Prime95 blend. The clock is definitely not limited by thermal ceiling, I think I have hit the max that the board can handle comfortably. I can get the frequency higher but as soon as it hits 4.4ghz with enough voltage for stability I start seeing a significant increase in the variance of my results using Intel Burn Test (basically the speed of test completion starts to fluctuate wildly suggesting to me some kind of throttling). I'm attributing this to hot VRM's on my board as it unfortunately doesn't come equipped with a heatsink, it's either this or simply the limitation of it's 4 phase design.
> 
> I would be interested to hear how other people approach overclocking and if anyone has had any joy with RAM overclocking on this board as almost any change for me from the XMP specs results in the board not posting!


Welcome to the forum, dear 860k user









You have an average-nice chip there, when it comes to overclocking, 4.4 is nice, but I understand why you use 4.3.

What kind of RAM do you have and have you tried OC-ing CPU NB ? This chip likes faster RAM, and difference between 1600 and 2400Mhz can be seen when benching games.
OC-ing NB has some small benefits on memory, so if you want to squeeze 100% from your chip, keep that in mind too









Was your i7-2600 (non-k I presume) OC-ed at all ?


----------



## Poprin

Hey VordaVor, yes I had a non K 2600 but took advantage of being able to overclock by the factor of the turbo speed so it was running at 3.8 and turbo at 4.2. It is a great chip to be fair!

I've been using passmark performance test to measure and performance increases after I make an adjustment, not sure if this is the most accurate but gives you multiple tests for each component so seems to give you a good idea that your changes made a difference. To be fair with my current RAM speed I didn't see an improvement pushing the NB above stock 1800mhz. I did see a decrease in perormance lowering it though!

I've currently got 4x4gb sticks of Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz. I used two of these modules previously in this board and managed to bump the base clock to 107 with an A6-6400k when it was in my HTPC, however either with the Athlon or with the extra two chips I just can't seem to budge anything! Tightening the timings fails, loosening the timings and pushing to 1800mhz fails. The most I got out of the base clock was 102 and that was unstable!

I've read several posts that suggest these modules are good overclockers but I've never really tried pushing RAM before so maybe I just haven't developed the skills yet!! I've been too afraid to raise the voltage above 1.55.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> I've heard IBM's process is "too expensive" but I don't know the specifics.


That's the usual line regarding SOI processes in general. It's hard to tell, since the only CPU I know of that uses/used IBM's 22nm PDSOI is POWER8, and that never comes cheap.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robenger*
> 
> Why do you have to crush my dreams?


'cuz they go crunch crunch when I step on them.

Here's another one: the Bristol Ridge Athlons may not clock higher than 4.2 GHz. But that's just a pessimistic guess.


----------



## The Stilt

SOI is more expensive than planar, but cheaper than FinFet. If SOI wafers would become cheaper, it could be used to cut down FinFet cost too. When SOI is used it cuts down the process phases significantly for FinFet. Planar FinFet requires < 30% more litography steps and over 60% more process steps than SOI FinFet. The labour is the biggest reason why FinFet is so expensive. Currently implementing SOI on FinFet would be still more expensive due the higher wafer cost, despite the significantly less require labour.

ps. The Athlon are called as Carrizo. Bristol Ridge is reserved for 9K series parts.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Peculiar choice of nomenclature, btw. I get Kaveri and Godavari being part of the same 800 series as they use the same SR core, but one would expect Carrizo to be designated differently being XV.


The part numbers that are assigned to those Carrizo parts are all you need to know. They're low-performance, entry-level parts, and won't perform anywhere near as well as our 860K's do. Unless they have something better coming later in 2016, it's not going to matter if they ship them outside China or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poprin*
> 
> Just wanted to share my experience with you; for £56 I think quite frankly the 860k is a seriously under-rated chip. So far it has been impressing me no end. It uses roughly the same amount of power as my old i7, clearly in raw computing tasks it is no where near the performance but for gaming I am using the same card I owned before (GTX 770) and in benchmarks the 860k is only losing between 6-3 FPS on average v's my i7.


That's about where you should be. My overclocked 860K performs about on par with an i5-2400 in gaming scenarios and even better than that on other workloads. Passmark rates about even with a 4440. The 2600 is a 4c/8t chip, but most games rarely use more than four threads anyway.

Thanks for dropping in as a longtime Intel user with this information. I've posted probably 100 times on OCN telling people that an 860K can reach this level of performance, only to have people who haven't used an AMD chip in 10 years try to say otherwise, and steer people toward much more costly Intel options.

The 860K is the undisputed champion of bang for your buck (or pound) right now. An Intel G3258 can offer more single-core performance, but the latest games are targeted for quads, and they want four cores.

By the way, you're doing well with the motherboard you have. Most of the people who have hit 4.5 have done it with one of the 6+2 boards. Kaveri is very fussy about power delivery when you push it to its limits. But it's harder for me to recommend a $90-100 motherboard for an 860K when a new socket is right on the horizon and there's likely no upgrade path for FM2+ in the future.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poprin*
> 
> Hey VordaVor, yes I had a non K 2600 but took advantage of being able to overclock by the factor of the turbo speed so it was running at 3.8 and turbo at 4.2. It is a great chip to be fair!
> 
> I've been using passmark performance test to measure and performance increases after I make an adjustment, not sure if this is the most accurate but gives you multiple tests for each component so seems to give you a good idea that your changes made a difference. To be fair with my current RAM speed I didn't see an improvement pushing the NB above stock 1800mhz. I did see a decrease in perormance lowering it though!
> 
> I've currently got 4x4gb sticks of Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz. I used two of these modules previously in this board and managed to bump the base clock to 107 with an A6-6400k when it was in my HTPC, however either with the Athlon or with the extra two chips I just can't seem to budge anything! Tightening the timings fails, loosening the timings and pushing to 1800mhz fails. The most I got out of the base clock was 102 and that was unstable!
> 
> I've read several posts that suggest these modules are good overclockers but I've never really tried pushing RAM before so maybe I just haven't developed the skills yet!! I've been too afraid to raise the voltage above 1.55.


Yeah you won't see any improvement in NB with that RAM unfortunately.
I really don't have much experience overclocking RAM, as mine works 2400 out of the box and it already has great timings. I'm kind of afraid to push it, as I've removed the heatsinks because of my tower cooler and I don't really know will OC-ing it screw/overheat something to death.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> ps. The Athlon are called as Carrizo. Bristol Ridge is reserved for 9K series parts.


Hmm. So they may be die-harvested parts from older Carrizo chip runs?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hmm. So they may be die-harvested parts from older Carrizo chip runs?


I would imagine all dies with a defective iGPU end up being Athlon X4 on FM2r2 package. Regardless if it came from the imaginary older or newer spin


----------



## Siman

They are nerfed APU chips or ones they found defects in. But they are vary capable little processors. They can push a 390 or 290 adequately I do suggest overclocking a little. But they are perfect if you pare a 380X, 380 4gb, or GTX 950. Its a vary vary good budget CPU and since it has 4 threads, games that require them are happy. I've built a few ITX gaming machines with this CPU the best pare up has been the 380X followed by the GTX 950. If your planning on OC it to a little above 4GHz the best match has been a 390.

Ill go on a limb say they are better than I3s and the Pentiums purely on the threads alone. But if your not making a budget gaming rig then I wouldn't look at them. A med - high end rig these days are at home with i5s and enthusiasts are i7. For the 1% there is the i7 extremes that really aren't needed unless your needing the PCI-e lanes...


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siman*
> 
> They are nerfed APU chips or ones they found defects in. But they are vary capable little processors. They can push a 390 or 290 adequately I do suggest overclocking a little. But they are perfect if you pare a 380X, 380 4gb, or GTX 950. Its a vary vary good budget CPU and since it has 4 threads, games that require them are happy. I've built a few ITX gaming machines with this CPU the best pare up has been the 380X followed by the GTX 950. If your planning on OC it to a little above 4GHz the best match has been a 390.
> 
> Ill go on a limb say they are better than I3s and the Pentiums purely on the threads alone. But if your not making a budget gaming rig then I wouldn't look at them. A med - high end rig these days are at home with i5s and enthusiasts are i7. For the 1% there is the i7 extremes that really aren't needed unless your needing the PCI-e lanes...


while i like to build simply put,iam pretty happy with my amd machine it is currently running stock clocks and partnered with a msi r9 380 gamer i have no complaints,my experiance with intel has not been bad its just nice to se enthusiasts push different systems that being said i mostly play right now so competitive market is also good


----------



## drBlahMan

Is there anyone currently using an 860k for autocad 2010 or higher version? If so, would you please be so kind to let me know how is the 2d performance. Thanks in advance









I'm considering to build a very cheap AMD workstation basically for 2d autocad and 2d photoshop rendering


----------



## Jack13

Alas, my poor little 860K that wouldn't overclock well has died. No video output (not even a blinking cursor) of any kind. I reseated it and still nothing. Swapped in an A6-7400K and proved to myself that it wasn't the MoBo or any other part.
The thing never overheated, it just wouldn't overclock well. It worked fine the last time I monkeyed with it. I've never had a cpu fail on me that wasn't fried or externally damaged.
I submitted a warranty claim to AMD, so I'll see what they send me....


----------



## Siman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Alas, my poor little 860K that wouldn't overclock well has died. No video output (not even a blinking cursor) of any kind. I reseated it and still nothing. Swapped in an A6-7400K and proved to myself that it wasn't the MoBo or any other part.
> The thing never overheated, it just wouldn't overclock well. It worked fine the last time I monkeyed with it. I've never had a cpu fail on me that wasn't fried or externally damaged.
> I submitted a warranty claim to AMD, so I'll see what they send me....


I've had them at 4.1-4.2 without having any issue. I've seen them much higher, but I generally use a small cooler master hyper T2. Never had them fail yet.


----------



## Jack13

Yeah, this one would get to 4.3 with great temps then hit the wall beyond that. My current one does good up to 4.5 but I can't make it do anything beyond that.


----------



## Siman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Yeah, this one would get to 4.3 with great temps then hit the wall beyond that. My current one does good up to 4.5 but I can't make it do anything beyond that.


what PSU did you have? Ive been running platinum PSUs. Most cpus these days don't like dirty power. Ive seen many a blown GPU and CPUs because of power spikes


----------



## Jack13

Grrrrrr......now I'm scratching my head. I decided to give it one last try before boxing it up in preparation of sending it back. The ONLY thing I did was swap out the A6 for the 860 and, boom, it works again. I know it can't just decide to start working again, so I'm trying to figure out what the hell changed. I tried it 3 times with the same results, then this. Aggravating to say the least..

EDIT: I just figured it out. A wonky DVI cable. Must have been jostling it just enough during the swap outs to make it work then not work. Even more aggravating!


----------



## Jack13

oh, the PSU is fine. It's nothing spectacular, just a CX750M that I picked up because I had a boatload of best buy points that were about to expire. I use it on my test bench and as an emergency backup. Not the greatest in the world, but basically free is one of my favorite price points.


----------



## Siman

well the CPU is probably done Id switch to the HX or AX series the CX series is their cheap version they arnt that good at really anything... I've had allot of CX PSUs fail on me. Ive thrown in the towel and went with seasonic's line of platinum PSUs or the AX/HX series. The best compromise is the RMx series but that's the lowest Id ever go.


----------



## Jack13

Yeah, it wasn't my first choice, but their selection is poor at best and I needed to use up the points before the expired. Got it for less than $10 out of my pocket and was lacking a backup PSU at the time. I use Seasonic's whenever I can. The wife gets a little bent out of shape when a package from Newegg shows up and Microcenter and Fry's are too far away for a casual trip.


----------



## coffeerox

Just woke up to this tidbit: http://wccftech.com/amd-a10-7890k-apu/

7890K @ 4.1 base, 4.3 turbo. Comes with the new Wraith stock cooler.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Just woke up to this tidbit: http://wccftech.com/amd-a10-7890k-apu/
> 
> 7890K @ 4.1 base, 4.3 turbo. Comes with the new Wraith stock cooler.


Just read that myself. wonder what happened to the 7880K?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Just read that myself. wonder what happened to the 7880K?


I had no idea there was supposed to be a 7880K. I know of the 880K.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I had no idea there was supposed to be a 7880K. I know of the 880K.


I was only wondering why they skpped it numerically.


----------



## The Stilt

7880K exists too, but there is no information if it is restricted to OEM or to certain markets only. It´s clocked exactly 100MHz higher than 7870K and 100MHz lower than 7890K. Unless AMD has decided to increase the GPU clock on 7890K recently, the clock information for GPU is wrong in those lists.

When looking at the voltage rating of 7890K... Just kill me


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I would imagine all dies with a defective iGPU end up being Athlon X4 on FM2r2 package. Regardless if it came from the imaginary older or newer spin


That could lead to a great deal of variability in the chips, if there is indeed a respin for Bristol Ridge as some have implied. I will say that the TDP ratings for Bristol Ridge @ 3.6/4.0 turbo seem to imply that there was a respin. Carrizo's voltage scaling past ~2.5 GHz is generally inferior to that of GV-A1 Kaveri, yet the top-end Bristol Ridge has clockspeed and TDP ratings that imply superior voltage scaling than GV-A1 Kaveri.

btw, with the 7890k re-announced, maybe we will see that chip after all, along with the 870k and/or 880k outside of China. Makes me wonder if AM4 really is going to launch in March. It's still too little too late on the 7890k . . . should have launched that before Black Friday. The voltage reqs are probably overblown, just like they are for the 7870k.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drBlahMan*
> 
> Is there anyone currently using an 860k for autocad 2010 or higher version? If so, would you please be so kind to let me know how is the 2d performance. Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm considering to build a very cheap AMD workstation basically for 2d autocad and 2d photoshop rendering


If you are going to build a CAD workstation with AMD hardware, then as of right now, a Steamroller chip would probably be your best choice, though you will have to shoot the moon on the overclock to make a big difference (if you are going to OC at all). Generally speaking, CAD software is single-threaded, and you will get better performance out of a relatively-inexpensive Intel CPU like a Skylake i3-6100 or what have you.


----------



## coffeerox

what IS the voltage rating of the 7890K btw?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> what IS the voltage rating of the 7890K btw?




The default voltage will vary from specimen to specimen (leakage), however the average is few steps higher than on 7870K. And when you remember that some 7870Ks already went to 1.500V VID on turbo...







... yeah.


----------



## GreatChicken

Quote:


> If you are going to build a CAD workstation with AMD hardware, then as of right now, a Steamroller chip would probably be your best choice, though you will have to shoot the moon on the overclock to make a big difference (if you are going to OC at all). Generally speaking, CAD software is single-threaded, and you will get better performance out of a relatively-inexpensive Intel CPU like a Skylake i3-6100 or what have you.


The CAD makers are already starting to adopt variable multhread solutions tho, so YMMV. If they haven't, then they aren't on the ball, or you've stuck to older versions of the software which at the most go 2T on any given client.

Video and photo editing really depends on codec and format, but these days "tolerable" wants physical cores, not Hyperthread cores.I do know the current version of Vegas will actually scale, as does Photoshop and Premier. Not inclusive of things like CUDA or OpenCL yet, and yes, this stuff is actually used like in CAD. This is where cost vs performance comes in. You can get by with an i3, but you'd really want an i5 or A8-A10 at least.

Gs were relevant 1.5 years ago... but not now unfortunately. Maybe I'll give Atoms a chance again?


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hmm. So they may be die-harvested parts from older Carrizo chip runs?


Those Excavator-based FM2+ Athlon's are most likely just gonna be in a limited-market run. Which doesn't matter for people like us because they're locked-multiplier anyway. They don't have any Carrizo APU's on FM2+ because the socket can't power them properly (everything past Kaveri requires three voltages: processor core voltage, NB voltage, and graphics core voltage. FM2+ can only do the first two.) Seems to me they've been planning Bristol Ridge for quite a while.

I just wonder what process node they're on. Apparently AMD said they didn't use customized processes after Kaveri so maybe it's not 28SHP anymore?


----------



## GreatChicken

Strangely, the Carrizos we've seen in the wild are 35w parts. Our boards could do them properly.

Even on the laptop platforms they are released on, the issue isnt that they couldnt, the issue was they are tdp locked by manufacturer most of the time.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> The CAD makers are already starting to adopt variable multhread solutions tho, so YMMV. If they haven't, then they aren't on the ball, or you've stuck to older versions of the software which at the most go 2T on any given client.


https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Support-for-multi-core-processors-with-AutoCAD.html
Quote:


> AutoCAD only supports multi-core technology in specific areas of the product, including:
> 
> 2D regeneration
> MentalRay rendering
> 
> To fully benefit from multi-core processors, you need to use multi-threaded software; AutoCAD is predominantly a single-threaded application.


Just sayin, yo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Those Excavator-based FM2+ Athlon's are most likely just gonna be in a limited-market run. Which doesn't matter for people like us because they're locked-multiplier anyway.


Not a single k chip among them? Sad. They could have shown us more voltage/clockspeed scaling results . . .
Quote:


> Seems to me they've been planning Bristol Ridge for quite a while.


Bristol Ridge leaked some time ago, back when the first Summit Ridge slides leaked. I was floored even then when Bristol Ridge was only going to be a 28nm part, but at least now I understand why. It's just desktop Carrizo.
Quote:


> I just wonder what process node they're on. Apparently AMD said they didn't use customized processes after Kaveri so maybe it's not 28SHP anymore?


Definitely not 28SHP. It's Carrizo's process.


----------



## The Stilt

GlobalFoundries has three 28nm variants available: GF28(A = AMD), GF28HPP and GF28SLP. HPP and SLP are available to everyone, whereas GF28A is the tuned version of GF28HPP exclusively available to AMD. GF28SHP only existed on paper. It would have been a SOI process as all the SHP processes which came before it have been. Kaveri / Godavari used GF28A process while Carrizo / Bristol Ridge and Stoney Ridge use GF28HPP. HPP allows slighly higher density than GF28A, however the additional density comes with a Fmax penalty.

On Excavator the "off-the-shelf" process probably doesn´t hurt the Fmax too badly thou. If you take a Steamroller which has the Fmax around ~4.5GHz and reduce the L2 latency from 19 to 17 cycles (which was done in Excavator), the Fmax will become ~ 4.0GHz. Even the L2 size was reduced in Excavator, I still expect the design be fully L2 cache limited in terms of Fmax. So if the Fmax will be limited by the design itself, it pointless to pay premium for a higher performance process, especially when the cheaper process has slightly higher density too


----------



## NaroonGTX

Thanks for the info, Stilt. Very interesting. It's also a pity that they killed off AM1 so quickly, despite saying it would offer "upgradability" in the initial marketing slides haha. Suffered the same fate as FM1. Socket died basically the moment it got introduced. The 20nm Cat cores also got canceled. Guess they're gonna bank totally on Zen for everything now.


----------



## The Stilt

I think AMD has no choice but to dump AM1. Eventhou AM1 is not a real platform, since it is recycled from FS1+ socket from 15h 10-1Fh mobile family (Trinity / Richland). To optimize power efficiency AMD decided to go with three different voltage planes (CPU, NB & GPU). Since all SoCs newer than Mullins use this configuration, it is obvious that the FS1+ cannot support them. It is not a marketing related decision but a limitation of the design itself. For the same exact reason Carrizo APUs cannot operate on FM2+ unless the GPU is permanently disabled.

Meanwhile bringing Mullins on AM1 would have basically made no sense, since the only major improvement are the slightly higher clocks. Also bringing a newer design (Carrizo or Nolan) as a CPU (GPU disabled) make no sense in this segment. AM1 motherboards are cheap as the soap anyway, so I don´t feel like it´s a major loss. I would also imagine that despite Nolan on 20nm process was shanked, the design was not abandoned. I wouldn´t be surprised if it would emerge on 14nm LPP at some point. A design like Nolan and 14nm LPP should be a match made in heaven


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok got her up and running finally iam really impressed but it still needs fine tuning or at least help me understand what my cpu is doing. my system runs stable in windows periodically it does a unresponsive page but other wise best i ca tell its good so i want to run my numbers by you i have alot of diagnostic software so i can read what ever you would like the only thing that leaves me confused my turbo is active +and cool and quite and MIT advanced memory oc on auto my pc seems to be constantly changing the frequency and temps iam also not sure what numbers you need but iam using a great program called aida 64 it checks stability under load and doesnt but barely 60c at 100% cpu usage i can run it on graph it doesnot waver very much ever 10 sec maybe 1 deg. so when idle it get 24c or 64 deg. thermal margin in AOD iam not sure if any thing needs to be done its just that constant bouncing frequancy and temps at idle thanks as always


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> ok got her up and running finally iam really impressed but it still needs fine tuning or at least help me understand what my cpu is doing. my system runs stable in windows periodically it does a unresponsive page but other wise best i ca tell its good so i want to run my numbers by you i have alot of diagnostic software so i can read what ever you would like the only thing that leaves me confused my turbo is active +and cool and quite and MIT advanced memory oc on auto my pc seems to be constantly changing the frequency and temps iam also not sure what numbers you need but iam using a great program called aida 64 it checks stability under load and doesnt but barely 60c at 100% cpu usage i can run it on graph it doesnot waver very much ever 10 sec maybe 1 deg. so when idle it get 24c or 64 deg. thermal margin in AOD iam not sure if any thing needs to be done its just that constant bouncing frequancy and temps at idle thanks as always


It's normal for your CPU to behave that way. That is done by power settings in BIOS, that down-clock your CPU when it's not in heavy use (idling), so that it saves power. The second you open a game or some background process requests more CPU strength, the spike goes up accordingly and stays there until the job is done, then it goes back to idle.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> GlobalFoundries has three 28nm variants available: GF28(A = AMD), GF28HPP and GF28SLP. HPP and SLP are available to everyone, whereas GF28A is the tuned version of GF28HPP exclusively available to AMD. GF28SHP only existed on paper. It would have been a SOI process as all the SHP processes which came before it have been. Kaveri / Godavari used GF28A process while Carrizo / Bristol Ridge and Stoney Ridge use GF28HPP. HPP allows slighly higher density than GF28A, however the additional density comes with a Fmax penalty.


Wait, why does everyone call Kaveri/Godavari's process 28SHP and Carrizo's process GF28A? I had thought GF28A was a code for 28HPP (I keep forgetting that one).
Quote:


> On Excavator the "off-the-shelf" process probably doesn´t hurt the Fmax too badly thou. If you take a Steamroller which has the Fmax around ~4.5GHz and reduce the L2 latency from 19 to 17 cycles (which was done in Excavator), the Fmax will become ~ 4.0GHz. Even the L2 size was reduced in Excavator, I still expect the design be fully L2 cache limited in terms of Fmax. So if the Fmax will be limited by the design itself, it pointless to pay premium for a higher performance process, especially when the cheaper process has slightly higher density too


The top-end Bristol Ridge is going to turbo to 4 GHz. So that's about the max frequency we should expect, +- 200 mhz? That would match my guess of 4.2 GHz as the MHz ceiling.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Have there been any IPC projections/tests done for Excavator yet? Does it exceed Phenom II finally? I heard some murmurs about Bristol's XV supposedly being "enhanced" but I don't think they'd do any actual microarchitectural changes for a release like that. I think the main purpose for Bristol's existence is for potential early adopters getting settled into the AM4 platform for the upcoming Zen releases.

@Stilt
True about the AM1 stuff. I didn't realize that the AM1 chips had the same power lane config as Carrizo did with the three separate voltages. And from what I recall Puma/Puma+ was more about higher frequency than actual uarch perf improvement, so a refresh wouldn't have made much sense?

Not as bad as FM1's fate though. The Llano's were decent chips (I have two of them) but I do have a theory that the clock ceiling may have been artificial so as to not be totally embarrassed when Trinity launched and didn't barely fare better in terms of performance. Llano topped out at an almost iron wall at 3.6ghz whilst Trinity could go up to around 4.4ghz iirc. I recall hearing that Llano was originally supposed to launch with much higher clocks than it ended up doing. A lot of that stuff was muddled back then. Original plans for FM2 were much more interesting, i.e. a 10-core Piledriver on it. It was supposed to be the original "unified socket".


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Not as bad as FM1's fate though. The Llano's were decent chips (I have two of them) but I do have a theory that the clock ceiling may have been artificial so as to not be totally embarrassed when Trinity launched and didn't barely fare better in terms of performance. Llano topped out at an almost iron wall at 3.6ghz whilst Trinity could go up to around 4.4ghz iirc. I recall hearing that Llano was originally supposed to launch with much higher clocks than it ended up doing.


Llano was just K10.5, the same CPU design as Athlon II. Why should it have clocked any better than Athlon II did? If that design was capable of consistently hitting clock rates well over 4 GHz, AMD would have continued to produce it rather than haul out the underperforming K15h Bulldozer when they did. Even golden Phenom II's, made on a tried-and-true, mature process, rarely top 4.2 GHz without exotic cooling. The headroom simply didn't exist in K10.5, even with a die shrink.

Trinity was based on Piledriver. It would have taken 4 GHz Llano chips to embarrass them, and that was not possible. If AMD could have made 4 GHz Llanos, it could have made 4 GHz Thubans, and if it could have made 4 GHz Thubans, they would have sold every one they could make.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Llano was actually a tweaked design, not just a simple copy/paste of "K10.5". The stuff I heard was apparently they had issues with the early 32nm SOI node. K10 didn't go beyond 4.2ghz often but I didn't see a huge swath of those chips unable to surmount 3.6ghz like Llano. You forget that Llano itself got delayed and was supposed to launch much earlier than it did. Trinity wasn't bad but like I said, *if* Llano could reach the purported clocks then Trinity wouldn't have been perceived as fancy as it was besides the iGPU improvements. Even 15h were supposed to clock around 5ghz at introduction but obviously they were on acid when they assumed that years down the line, they'd have adequate process nodes to reach that. Not sure why they bothered tweaking Llano as much as they did, even if it was minor stuff. They got around a ~7% ipc increase over Ph2 but it was negated by the lowered clocks. Guess it's all just irrelevant now but was something I always wondered about.


----------



## jsc1973

It was only minor tweaks, and it wasn't close to 7 percent in real-world use. The CPU component of Llano barely beats ordinary AM3 Athlon II chips of the same clock speed, and doesn't come close to Phenom II (due to the lack of L3 cache). All they did was improve a few minor issues that they'd discovered in the design since it had been introduced. They might as well implement the fixes, since they were doing a die-shrink anyway. If the 32nm shrink had enabled much higher clock rates, it would have been child's play for AMD to "copy-paste" the same die, add the L3 back in, and sell 4 GHz and above Denebs and Thubans.

All CPU manufacturers tend to be over-optimistic about what clock speeds they can reach. Intel thought the Pentium 4 uarch would reach 10 GHz, and they couldn't even make it to 4. AMD planned to make the K6-III at up to 800 MHz, but discovered that anything over 600 was unrealistic even with a die-shrink. They thought the Athlon XP could go higher, and it couldn't. The fact that they may have thought they could make Llano faster is no surprise, and doesn't mean anything other than they found out they couldn't. They thought they could make Bulldozer faster, too.


----------



## The Stilt

Llano had extremely low Fmax due two different reasons. The most important reason was that AMD doubled the L2 cache size in Stars (Greyhound 512KB) while leaving the L2 cache latency intact (12 cycles / 9 + 3). The other major issue was, that at the time of Llano´s release the 32nm SHP process was extremely immature. No doubt Llano would have performed better initially if it still was made on the 45nm SHP SOI instead of the 32nm SHP SOI. 32nm SHP SOI was still extremely inconsistent by the time it was used on Bulldozer. It took over 2.5 years more to get the process refined to the point where it was able to match the expectations initially set for it.

Llano also had some severe design flaws, which made it to perform worse than initially was expected. One of the improvements introduced in Stars was the hardware division unit. It gave a pretty nice boost, until it was found defective... The division unit was disabled by a microcode patch in late 2011.

Just for the kicks I would like to see Llano on the more matured 32nm SHP SOI (> 2014) and with some higher L2 cache latency. I would expect the Fmax increase in perfect relation to the increased L2 latency


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Llano had extremely low Fmax due two different reasons. The most important reason was that AMD doubled the L2 cache size in Stars (Greyhound 512KB) while leaving the L2 cache latency intact (12 cycles / 9 + 3). The other major issue was, that at the time of Llano´s release the 32nm SHP process was extremely immature. No doubt Llano would have performed better initially if it still was made on the 45nm SHP SOI instead of the 32nm SHP SOI. 32nm SHP SOI was still extremely inconsistent by the time it was used on Bulldozer. It took over 2.5 years more to get the process refined to the point where it was able to match the expectations initially set for it.
> 
> Llano also had some severe design flaws, which made it to perform worse than initially was expected. One of the improvements introduced in Stars was the hardware division unit. It gave a pretty nice boost, until it was found defective... The division unit was disabled by a microcode patch in late 2011.
> 
> Just for the kicks I would like to see Llano on the more matured 32nm SHP SOI (> 2014) and with some higher L2 cache latency. I would expect the Fmax increase in perfect relation to the increased L2 latency


Yes, and even with that, Llano still managed to beat Trinity in a lot of CPU intensive programs/benchs, specially those FPU intensive. There was a patch that reenables the hardware division unit, but I've never heard again about that.


----------



## The Stilt

Yeah but the FDIV was disabled for a reason, so there is not much point in re-enabling a broken piece of hardware.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Just for the kicks I would like to see Llano on the more matured 32nm SHP SOI (> 2014) and with some higher L2 cache latency. I would expect the Fmax increase in perfect relation to the increased L2 latency


It would probably do great, but AMD didn't have the luxury of the time to see that process mature.


----------



## dlee7283

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I think AMD has no choice but to dump AM1. Eventhou AM1 is not a real platform, since it is recycled from FS1+ socket from 15h 10-1Fh mobile family (Trinity / Richland). To optimize power efficiency AMD decided to go with three different voltage planes (CPU, NB & GPU). Since all SoCs newer than Mullins use this configuration, it is obvious that the FS1+ cannot support them. It is not a marketing related decision but a limitation of the design itself. For the same exact reason Carrizo APUs cannot operate on FM2+ unless the GPU is permanently disabled.
> 
> Meanwhile bringing Mullins on AM1 would have basically made no sense, since the only major improvement are the slightly higher clocks. Also bringing a newer design (Carrizo or Nolan) as a CPU (GPU disabled) make no sense in this segment. AM1 motherboards are cheap as the soap anyway, so I don´t feel like it´s a major loss. I would also imagine that despite Nolan on 20nm process was shanked, the design was not abandoned. I wouldn´t be surprised if it would emerge on 14nm LPP at some point. A design like Nolan and 14nm LPP should be a match made in heaven


AM1 was basically a low powered Phenom I released seven years after the fact. I actually dont like the way the heatsink is designed so I won't recommend it to anyone. Its a better
platform over Bay Trail in some ways though but FM2+ is the way to go even in low power even if its like 15 bucks more total cost of platform.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Anyone have a CPU score for 860K stock or OC in 3DMark?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Anyone have a CPU score for 860K stock or OC in 3DMark?


http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3730363


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3730363


A bit on the low side. Getting 6.2K with PII X4 @ 4.2GHz


----------



## cssorkinman

Firestrike isn't particularly friendly to any AMD chip newer than the Thuban.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







CHV-Z doesn't allow me to shut down one core per module in bios. I think my UD5 and GD-80 do... if anyone is interested, I could do a run on on of those as well.

Wonder what the 860's get api overhead test?


----------



## TinoArg

So the 860K gets 8.2% more IPC than the 8370E (with 2 modules) and the 8MB L3 cache, interesting. I haven't run Firestrike at 4.5 in my 7700K, but it seems a litle low, I get 130 points less at 4260MHz. Probably because the RAM speed and timmings.



I've just seen this in my mobo page:
Quote:


> OS - Microsoft® Windows® 10 32-bit / 10 64-bit / 8.1 32-bit / 8.1 64-bit / 8 32-bit / 8 64-bit / 7 32-bit / 7 64-bit
> 
> *Carrizo FM2r2 processor supports Windows® 10 64-bit / 8.1 64-bit / 7 32-bit / 7 64-bit only.


And in BIOS Support there is a new BIOS, but the CPU support List hasn't been updated since 3.00 (supporting Godavari)
Quote:


> 3.20 - 12/22/2015 - Update AGESA code / Improve CPU and memory compatibility.
> 
> 3.20A - 1/7/2016 - Support M.2 SSD by PCI-E to M.2 adapter card


http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/?cat=Specifications

The same quote is in AMD APU drivers:
Quote:


> AMD APU Product Family Compatibility
> 
> AMD APU series codenamed "Kaveri", "Godavari" and "Carrizo" are only supported by AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition on Windows® 7 (32 & 64-bit), Windows® 8.1 (64-bit) and Windows® 10 (64-bit).


Now I have Hope for a Carrizo APU







(I now the thing about the 3 voltage lines, but maybe it can work anyway without some efficiency improvements)


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Anyone have a CPU score for 860K stock or OC in 3DMark?


Here's mine. Firestrike Physics score 5424 at 4.5 GHz:


----------



## Grompf

Does it make sense to go down to a 860k/870K from a 8320? I guess not?


----------



## Ketcchup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grompf*
> 
> Does it make sense to go down to a 860k/870K from a 8320? I guess not?


obviously, doing that is literally throwing up 50% of the performance


----------



## Grompf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> obviously, doing that is literally throwing up 50% of the performance


Well I would guess so but Kaveri does have better IPC compared to Kaveri and I play mostly World of Tanks/Warships and Civ5. So my thought just was if the IPC goes up it may be better in fps even with less available threads.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Now I have Hope for a Carrizo APU heart.gif (I now the thing about the 3 voltage lines, but maybe it can work anyway without some efficiency improvements)


Not a chance. Carrizo is available in the full APU form on the mobile socket, don't forget that, so the Radeon driver mention has relevance, just not in the sense that you're thinking it does







. Carrizo on FM2+ will be Athlon only, also only locked SKU's. If the full APU were coming, we would've known about it by now.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grompf*
> 
> Does it make sense to go down to a 860k/870K from a 8320? I guess not?


only in general use. For gaming (mainly AAA gaming) that's like slashing your performance in half.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grompf*
> 
> Does it make sense to go down to a 860k/870K from a 8320? I guess not?


That only makes sense if you know you never need more than four cores. An 860K has higher IPC, but nowhere near enough to offset the four cores on workloads that can use additional cores.

I switched from an 8350 to the 860K, but only because I was no longer doing things that used more than 2-4 cores very often, and I just wanted to kick the tires on Kaveri. It's slightly faster on 1-4 core operations, but gets the crap kicked out of it on anything more, as you might imagine. An 860K is basically an improved FX-4350. Add in the fact that you need a fairly pricey motherboard to extract max performance from the 860K, and it makes no sense to switch from Vishera to Kaveri unless you have other reasons besides performance. An 8320 will be faster three-quarters of the time, and even when the 860K is faster, it's not by much.


----------



## <({D34TH})>

The 860K is the closest thing to a FX - '4500', without L3 of course.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> The 860K is the closest thing to a FX - '4500', without L3 of course.


Is the 860 4 cores on 2 modules?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Is the 860 4 cores on 2 modules?


Yep


----------



## mcspawnagain

gigabyte b15.0630.1 is this an f6 update?
is thermal margin idle 40 deg . ok?

Gigabyte F288X-UP4 WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
AMD Athlon X4 860K Windows 10 pro 64 bit
MSI R9 380 4GB Gamer Corsair k70 cherry blue
EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2 Mionix NAOS 8200
Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> gigabyte b15.0630.1 is this an f6 update?
> is thermal margin idle 40 deg . ok?
> 
> Gigabyte F288X-UP4 WD 1TB caviar black sata 6
> AMD Athlon X4 860K Windows 10 pro 64 bit
> MSI R9 380 4GB Gamer Corsair k70 cherry blue
> EVGA supernova 650W Gold G2 Mionix NAOS 8200
> Crucial Sport ddr3 16GB Samsung 60Hz syncmaster 24"


Don't know about that version number. It should say f6 or fSomething in bios, as far as I can remember.

Depends what cooler you are using. For after-market cooler like Hyper 212 EVO that temp idle is not ok, it can do better. If you are stock, thats another story.

You should put your PC info into "Your Rigs" signature, which can be found by hovering over your username, going into "View profile" and scrolling all the way bot.

That way, it will be more neat, organized and easy for people to troubleshoot your problems


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> gigabyte b15.0630.1 is this an f6 update?
> is thermal margin idle 40 deg . ok?


Im not sure what b15.0630.1 is. the UP4 BIOS updates are here: http://www.gigabyte.in/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4709#bios listed by revision.
to see which one you currently have in windows open CPU-Z look at the MAINBOARD tab under BIOS version


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Don't know about that version number. It should say f6 or fSomething in bios, as far as I can remember.
> 
> Depends what cooler you are using. For after-market cooler like Hyper 212 EVO that temp idle is not ok, it can do better. If you are stock, thats another story.
> 
> You should put your PC info into "Your Rigs" signature, which can be found by hovering over your username, going into "View profile" and scrolling all the way bot.
> 
> That way, it will be more neat, organized and easy for people to troubleshoot your problems


thanks for the advise. Vordavor i found this update in gigabyte app /download center what i dont know does this program already know i am using athlon being the differance in f6-f7 bios.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> thanks for the advise. Vordavor i found this update in gigabyte app /download center what i dont know does this program already know i am using athlon being the differance in f6-f7 bios.


Well it's an official gigabyte software thats partially designed for easy BIOS update, so it's safe to say it knows your CPU and mobo.

Why do you want to update BIOS ? Does the current BIOS version give you any problems ? If you just casually use your Athlon without any overclock and don't have any problems, then I wouldn't bother with updating BIOS.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

When I first bought my Gigabyte F2a88x-up4, I had to update from f4 firmware to what I thought was newest at the time f7. I've heard that with the athlon x4 860k it's better to use the f6 firmware, should I really downgrade from f7 to f6?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> When I first bought my Gigabyte F2a88x-up4, I had to update from f4 firmware to what I thought was newest at the time f7. I've heard that with the athlon x4 860k it's better to use the f6 firmware, should I really downgrade from f7 to f6?


I think people mostly downgrade BIOS because newer version sometimes lowers their overclocking potential. If you OC and you think your OC's are crap, try downgrading to see if it helps.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> When I first bought my Gigabyte F2a88x-up4, I had to update from f4 firmware to what I thought was newest at the time f7. I've heard that with the athlon x4 860k it's better to use the f6 firmware, should I really downgrade from f7 to f6?


http://www.gigabyte.us/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4709 look to the far right of the table under cpu athlon x4 860k.
short answer is yes your pc will work better with f6 bios i tried to load windows a dozen times before i looked at the optional bios per cpu you can find your current bios id on AMDoverdrive


----------



## milan616

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> http://www.gigabyte.us/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4709 look to the far right of the table under cpu athlon x4 860k.
> short answer is yes your pc will work better with f6 bios i tried to load windows a dozen times before i looked at the optional bios per cpu you can find your current bios id on AMDoverdrive


That table just shows from what BIOS version on a CPU was supported on the motherboard, nothing to do with which BIOS version to use.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milan616*
> 
> That table just shows from what BIOS version on a CPU was supported on the motherboard, nothing to do with which BIOS version to use.


read the entire line where it says athlon 860k on the left then go to the opposite side, the right and wham its there F6 recommended bios


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> read the entire line where it says athlon 860k on the left then go to the opposite side, the right and wham its there F6 recommended bios


Dude it doesn't say "recommended" anywhere. That column is "Since bios version", meaning that F6 was the first BIOS version to support 860k. Of course later versions will support it.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Dude it doesn't say "recommended" anywhere. That column is "Since bios version", meaning that F6 was the first BIOS version to support 860k. Of course later versions will support it.


dude its not a pissing contest do you even use a gigabyte board?


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milan616*
> 
> That table just shows from what BIOS version on a CPU was supported on the motherboard, nothing to do with which BIOS version to use.


@Milan [email protected] Vordavor iam not trying to lead this conversation. I in my short experience with AMD found the only bios that would run smooth and was recommended for my board my cpu and ram on this forum, i appreciate when have advise that works if you can use o it great if not sorry just trying to help


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> dude its not a pissing contest do you even use a gigabyte board?


Had a very low end one before I got current mobo. Upgraded my BIOS from F6 to F7 and left it there, cause I felt my system was more stable.


----------



## 7850K

F7 is the Godavari support update, it is not recommended to run with 860K.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

I rolled back to the f6 firmware today. One of the big reasons I did this was I could never run either of the memory profiles amp or xmp without getting the bluescreen memory shortage error. I have 16gb of corsair ram and couldn't understand why I kept getting the errors.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## drmrlordx

Did f6 fix your problem with XMP/AMP memory profiles?


----------



## <({D34TH})>

I managed to get 1600MHz stable on my 1866 RAM with F6, so it's something.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Did f6 fix your problem with XMP/AMP memory profiles?


So far it has, I've been using the computer a good bit and still no blue screen of death

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## drmrlordx

Word. A lot of those Kaveri refresh BIOS/UEFI updates were bad for KV-A1 chips.


----------



## VordaVor

My system is clearly an exception to that rule. Yesterday I reverted from BIOS version I regularly use, 1101 (second Godavari version), to 0903 (last Kaveri version), just to check what I could pull with OC.

First thing I noticed: CPU NB OC-ing is bugged as hell. ANY value besides "Auto" and the PC would not boot, with "Overclocking failed message". Even if I manually enter the default value, 1800, it still can't boot, unless I set to Auto. My NB OC on 1101 version is 2100 btw.

Second: My chip is very poor overclocker on any BIOS version it looks like. I couldn't get stable 42x without going 1.5v, that stayed the same, however I got to 41x lower by 0,012v, but I bet with few days to test I would get random freezes, which would force me to bump voltage, as it has happened before.

Note that this is for Crossblade ranger mobos.

I would gladly test newer BIOS versions, but I don't want to search the internet for days on ways to "revert to older bios version" in case I don't like the new one.


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> My system is clearly an exception to that rule. Yesterday I reverted from BIOS version I regularly use, 1101 (second Godavari version), to 0903 (last Kaveri version), just to check what I could pull with OC.
> 
> First thing I noticed: CPU NB OC-ing is bugged as hell. ANY value besides "Auto" and the PC would not boot, with "Overclocking failed message". Even if I manually enter the default value, 1800, it still can't boot, unless I set to Auto. My NB OC on 1101 version is 2100 btw.
> 
> Second: My chip is very poor overclocker on any BIOS version it looks like. I couldn't get stable 42x without going 1.5v, that stayed the same, however I got to 41x lower by 0,012v, but I bet with few days to test I would get random freezes, which would force me to bump voltage, as it has happened before.
> 
> Note that this is for Crossblade ranger mobos.
> 
> I would gladly test newer BIOS versions, but I don't want to search the internet for days on ways to "revert to older bios version" in case I don't like the new one.


those Asus ranger boards are pretty cool boards i had gotten bored and found i wanted to try my gigabyte one click OC, turned off turbo and cool and quiet, it runs pretty good 1.39v @4GHz. technically though, with my stock cooler a real overclock just isnt reasonable all i really did was use the stock clocks 3.7-4.00 lol


----------



## mcspawnagain

@VordaVor that scythe coolers are pretty bad asss have you seen the evga air coolers they are bout the same price point but i might have to match you and stay with an air cooler till i can really do a build


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> My system is clearly an exception to that rule. Yesterday I reverted from BIOS version I regularly use, 1101 (second Godavari version), to 0903 (last Kaveri version), just to check what I could pull with OC.
> 
> First thing I noticed: CPU NB OC-ing is bugged as hell. ANY value besides "Auto" and the PC would not boot, with "Overclocking failed message". Even if I manually enter the default value, 1800, it still can't boot, unless I set to Auto. My NB OC on 1101 version is 2100 btw.
> 
> Second: My chip is very poor overclocker on any BIOS version it looks like. I couldn't get stable 42x without going 1.5v, that stayed the same, however I got to 41x lower by 0,012v, but I bet with few days to test I would get random freezes, which would force me to bump voltage, as it has happened before.
> 
> Note that this is for Crossblade ranger mobos.
> 
> I would gladly test newer BIOS versions, but I don't want to search the internet for days on ways to "revert to older bios version" in case I don't like the new one.


What is the defaut VID of your CPU ? Each is different depending of the lottery... Check it Advanced Bios Menu / CPU Configuration
The bios releases over Asus FM2+ are almost sync. The NB overclock issue on 860K was solved with Bios release on April 2015 (should be 1002 for the crossblade)

So from my own experience I would keep either April 1002 or May 1101 bios. All the next Bios from Sept.2015 were buggy on my A88XM Plus, and introduce impossiblity to revert back. My issues only got solved with the last bios release.....


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> What is the defaut VID of your CPU ? Each is different depending of the lottery... Check it Advanced Bios Menu / CPU Configuration
> The bios releases over Asus FM2+ are almost sync. The NB overclock issue on 860K was solved with Bios release on April 2015 (should be 1002 for the crossblade)
> 
> So from my own experience I would keep either April 1002 or May 1101 bios. All the next Bios from Sept.2015 were buggy on my A88XM Plus, and introduce impossiblity to revert back. My issues only got solved with the last bios release.....


My CPU default VID is 1412mV.

I always wondered which one of those two fixed the NB bug. At the time I upgraded from 903, 1011 was newest so I went with that and I can't find an issue with it and still use it.

Have you tried using some non-Asus bios tools to force an older update ?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> @VordaVor that scythe coolers are pretty bad asss have you seen the evga air coolers they are bout the same price point but i might have to match you and stay with an air cooler till i can really do a build


Haven't been keeping up with coolers lately, as I'm perfectly satisfied with my current one.

The one that I have, when it comes to cooling is in line with the popular Cooler Master Hyper 212 evo. Maybe you can get a good deal on it where you live. Its a great performer and for that price I doubt you will find better.


----------



## stublehustle

Good morning everyone. I just finished bulding my 860k. I'm using ASUS AI Suite 3 to OC because it's my first time OCing and I wanted a base to get an idea of where I can go if I were to use bios settings instead. Just wanted to get the opinion of the group as to how it looks and what I could be doing better/differently.



http://valid.x86.fr/g881hk


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stublehustle*
> 
> Good morning everyone. I just finished bulding my 860k. I'm using ASUS AI Suite 3 to OC because it's my first time OCing and I wanted a base to get an idea of where I can go if I were to use bios settings instead. Just wanted to get the opinion of the group as to how it looks and what I could be doing better/differently.
> 
> 
> 
> http://valid.x86.fr/g881hk


That's a really good OC for 860K, especially if it is stable. Can you pass a run of IBT w/AVX?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> My CPU default VID is 1412mV.
> 
> I always wondered which one of those two fixed the NB bug. At the time I upgraded from 903, 1011 was newest so I went with that and I can't find an issue with it and still use it.
> 
> Have you tried using some non-Asus bios tools to force an older update ?


I also got a VID of 1.41v. I run now at 4.2Ghz with offset at +0.0065 and LLC high. The best I can get under 1.5v voltage is 4.3Ghz with +0.05V offset and LLC on high.

I did not tried any other tool to downgrade bios. didn't want to explain my wife why I needed to buy a new mainboard (note : do not try to change your CPU cooler after drinking some glasses of red whine)

I had to be patient after I switch to the first bad bios in september , as I needed to add 0.05V more ( first "beta" bios for Carrizo FM2+, if I understood well). As I said I am glad the last update from Asus eventually solved my issue (took them 3 months...)


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stublehustle*
> 
> Good morning everyone. I just finished bulding my 860k. I'm using ASUS AI Suite 3 to OC because it's my first time OCing and I wanted a base to get an idea of where I can go if I were to use bios settings instead. Just wanted to get the opinion of the group as to how it looks and what I could be doing better/differently.
> 
> 
> 
> http://valid.x86.fr/g881hk


Those don't look much different from my manual settings. You got 89 more MHZ at a lower vcore (I set it for 1.5325 manually, which is about 1.51 effective). If that's stable, then the AISuite did a great job tuning your system. It doesn't usually work that well.

Test it for stability, and if it passes, see if you can squeeze a few more MHz out of it or maybe run a little lower vcore and stay stable. You're already doing great.

Where's that Intel troll from last week who said the A88X-PRO wasn't any good because it wasn't a ROG board?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Where's that Intel troll from last week who said the A88X-PRO wasn't any good because it wasn't a ROG board?


lol!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Second: My chip is very poor overclocker on any BIOS version it looks like. I couldn't get stable 42x without going 1.5v, that stayed the same, however I got to 41x lower by 0,012v, but I bet with few days to test I would get random freezes, which would force me to bump voltage, as it has happened before.


So I suppose the sample itself never changes characteristics despite BIOS updates and such.


----------



## Dromihetes

4,2 Ghz should be easily achievable with proper cooling with no voltage bump.Strange fact that you can t go to 4,2Ghz.I can do that even on my crap mobo but the system becomes to noisy and the gain over 4Ghz is not extraordinary in what i do with the PC..


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*
> 
> 4,2 Ghz should be easily achievable with proper cooling with no voltage bump.


Tell that to my CPU who needs 0.05625 offset to run 4100 without random freezes during casual use


----------



## cssorkinman

For all the X4 owners here I just started a friendly competition - http://www.overclock.net/t/1589348/amd-x4-battle-royale-unofficial#post_24838671
I invite you all to give it a go - hope to see you there


----------



## drmrlordx

Hey, anyone here have Just Cause 3? There's a review up showing Kaveri APUs running horribly low minimum FPS playing this game, and I'm wondering if 860k + low end dGPU shows the same problem.


----------



## stublehustle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> That's a really good OC for 860K, especially if it is stable. Can you pass a run of IBT w/AVX?


Passed 5 runs.


----------



## stublehustle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Those don't look much different from my manual settings. You got 89 more MHZ at a lower vcore (I set it for 1.5325 manually, which is about 1.51 effective). If that's stable, then the AISuite did a great job tuning your system. It doesn't usually work that well.
> 
> Test it for stability, and if it passes, see if you can squeeze a few more MHz out of it or maybe run a little lower vcore and stay stable. You're already doing great.
> 
> Where's that Intel troll from last week who said the A88X-PRO wasn't any good because it wasn't a ROG board?


Did great on stability. I'm loving this board.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stublehustle*
> 
> Passed 5 runs.


Should be pretty solid for most usage then.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Hey, anyone here have Just Cause 3? There's a review up showing Kaveri APUs running horribly low minimum FPS playing this game, and I'm wondering if 860k + low end dGPU shows the same problem.


From my understanding, that game is optimized like garbage anyway so it may be expected.


----------



## coffeerox

Anybody get Rise of the Tomb Raider?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> From my understanding, that game is optimized like garbage anyway so it may be expected.


It's possible, it's just weird. At least one AT poster with an A10-6700 reported better performance than what the reviewer got running Kaveri APUs, though it still wasn't very pretty.


----------



## GreatChicken

Well it could be the game finally uses 4T and as such it suffers when you try to benchmark with it. >_>'


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> It's possible, it's just weird. At least one AT poster with an A10-6700 reported better performance than what the reviewer got running Kaveri APUs, though it still wasn't very pretty.


I found this video on YT comparing JC3 with 7870K and Iris Pro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mR6IQLYPEI its not fantastic frames, but definitely looks playable.


----------



## chrisjames61

[quote name="jsc1973" url="/t/1514009/athlon-860k-any-one-picking-it-up/2400_100#post_24837634"

Where's that Intel troll from last week who said the A88X-PRO wasn't any good because it wasn't a ROG board?







[/quote]

Yeah, the guy who said just because The Stilt said that the A88X-PRO and Crossblade Ranger were functionally the same minus the nic and audio didn't mean it was true! What a knucklehead that guy was.










I apologize for messing up the quoting.


----------



## coffeerox

I got pulled into a trap by an Intel fanboy. I was trying to help him out b/c he came into an Athlon but he didn't know performance. I told him and provided all the facts and this idiot uses CPUBoss on me and says I don't know what I'm talking about.

Well that got me thinking, there's very poor evidence of the 860K doing anything. I mean we talk about the fact that it's equivalent to the i3-4170/i5-2320/i5-2500 but videos on YT are all noob users who run Ultra settings on GPUs they have no business using Ultra settings on. Further, game benchmarkers use Ultra settings to test to see where CPUs fall, but none of them try to show the usable results, which is what people are always clueless on.

They see the benchmarks, lets say 30fps on Ultra, then YT to find it gets 30FPS on Ultra. But what they don't know is that you can get 60 (or somewhere in the middle) by tuning settings. They think 60FPS on an 860K is a myth.

So what I plan to do from this point forward is make videos and document game performance. My only concern is that recording using AMD VCE still takes frames away (on my last run, it dropped from 60 to 45 at 1080P). I might have to get a separate capture card or whatnot. Any resolution under 1080P seems fine though.


----------



## Kryton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> All the next Bios from Sept.2015 were buggy on my A88XM Plus, and introduce impossiblity to revert back.......


Not true.
You can revert back if you have the right tools.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NANO-USB-Programmer-for-PC-M-B-BIOS-repairing-with-Economic-shipping-/271313593344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2b8ce400

I grabbed one of these sometime back and I'll just say it's paid for itself several times over.
Maybe a little bit annoying to learn how to setup and use initially but once you do figure it out you'll love it.
Makes recovering from such stuff like this or a corrupted/crashed BIOS a real breeze.


----------



## syl1979

Interesting little tools. Didn't knew about this. May try to get one just for fun. How is it working? You put your bios rom chip on the key and use another computer to reprogram ?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Interesting little tools. Didn't knew about this. May try to get one just for fun. How is it working? You put your bios rom chip on the key and use another computer to reprogram ?


EzFlash doesn´t allow you to downgrade? What´s the actual error message it gives? You could also try to downgrade with BUpdater (DOS).

If neither of those methods work, you can try with Flashrom (DOS). Regardless if the previous methods work, if you have the time could you please test with Flashrom if it detects your flash chip? The command for Flashrom is "flashrom -p internal". That command just checks if there are any compatible flash devices available, it doesn´t write anything. ASUS uses a special method to program the flash on some of their boards, so if the same method is used on your board Flashrom will give an error related to "SPIHostAccessRomEn".

For the two DOS based programs, you can create a bootable MS-DOS USB stick with Rufus


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I got pulled into a trap by an Intel fanboy. I was trying to help him out b/c he came into an Athlon but he didn't know performance. I told him and provided all the facts and this idiot uses CPUBoss on me and says I don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Well that got me thinking, there's very poor evidence of the 860K doing anything. I mean we talk about the fact that it's equivalent to the i3-4170/i5-2320/i5-2500 but videos on YT are all noob users who run Ultra settings on GPUs they have no business using Ultra settings on. Further, game benchmarkers use Ultra settings to test to see where CPUs fall, but none of them try to show the usable results, which is what people are always clueless on.
> 
> They see the benchmarks, lets say 30fps on Ultra, then YT to find it gets 30FPS on Ultra. But what they don't know is that you can get 60 (or somewhere in the middle) by tuning settings. They think 60FPS on an 860K is a myth.
> 
> So what I plan to do from this point forward is make videos and document game performance. My only concern is that recording using AMD VCE still takes frames away (on my last run, it dropped from 60 to 45 at 1080P). I might have to get a separate capture card or whatnot. Any resolution under 1080P seems fine though.


Encoding high quality gameplay video definitely is a weakness for the Athlon, and all CPUs with 4 cores or less really. Capture card is indeed your best bet. If I recall, I could normally do ultra settings on Far Cry 3 and mostly stay close to 60FPS, but once I started recording FPS just tanked into the 30s as CPU usage on all cores was then pegged at 100%.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Encoding high quality gameplay video definitely is a weakness for the Athlon, and all CPUs with 4 cores or less really. Capture card is indeed your best bet. If I recall, I could normally do ultra settings on Far Cry 3 and mostly stay close to 60FPS, but once I started recording FPS just tanked into the 30s as CPU usage on all cores was then pegged at 100%.


AMD VCE encodes using the GPU. Equivalent to Nvidia's Shadowplay.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> I got pulled into a trap by an Intel fanboy. I was trying to help him out b/c he came into an Athlon but he didn't know performance. I told him and provided all the facts and this idiot uses CPUBoss on me and says I don't know what I'm talking about.


tell him he cannot make any definitive claims against the 860K until he reads this while thread.
Quote:


> They see the benchmarks, lets say 30fps on Ultra, then YT to find it gets 30FPS on Ultra. But what they don't know is that you can get 60 (or somewhere in the middle) by tuning settings. They think 60FPS on an 860K is a myth.


fighting ignorance of this platform is a full time job on the interwebs. I got worn out trying long ago. Half the people wont even believe you when your info contradicts cpu-boss


----------



## Kryton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Interesting little tools. Didn't knew about this. May try to get one just for fun. How is it working? You put your bios rom chip on the key and use another computer to reprogram ?


Yes, you use another machine to use it with, doesn't matter what it is as long as it has a USB port available since even a lappy could do it.

Best thing is as long as your BIOS chip fits in it you can use it with any chip from any board making it almost universal and the same in terms of ease to use too. It will also let you know if the chip is bad BUT sometimes it will give an indication of a failed flash even though it's not, an obvious software issue with the program used to run it, happens during the verification part of the process.

Be sure to read the requirements for it before getting one since ATM it only has 32 bit support related to the OS used.

Stilt's suggestions are also good, I'd at least take a look at what he's saying as well.


----------



## syl1979

As I said it seems Asus eventually solved the issues. The last bios is Ok for me. Runs at 4.2Ghz with LLC High, offset +0.006V with NB overclock at 2000Mhz.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> As I said it seems Asus eventually solved the issues. The last bios is Ok for me. Runs at 4.2Ghz with LLC High, offset +0.006V with NB overclock at 2000Mhz.


That offset voltage is low enough to be negligible. +0.06 would be more like it.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> As I said it seems Asus eventually solved the issues. The last bios is Ok for me. Runs at 4.2Ghz with LLC High, offset +0.006V with NB overclock at 2000Mhz.


Any chance you could check if the Flashrom is able to find your flash chip? I would need to know this for my other projects, but don´t have a board without USB Flashback available.


----------



## syl1979

Sorry I don't understand, what do you want me to do ?

Edit : I guess this should do it ?


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> That offset voltage is low enough to be negligible. +0.06 would be more like it.


I cannot set offset to 0, as it goes to Auto... So I set minimum + 0.00625


----------



## NaroonGTX

So that new Excavator Athlon x4 just launched today. 3.5 ghz base and 3.8ghz turbo. 65W TDP and apparently comes with the Wraith cooler.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Sorry I don't understand, what do you want me to do ?
> 
> Edit : I guess this should do it ?


Exactly that, thanks


----------



## <({D34TH})>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> So that new Excavator Athlon x4 just launched today. 3.5 ghz base and 3.8ghz turbo. 65W TDP and apparently comes with the Wraith cooler.


Not meant to be overclocked, though. They released a 870K which is Godavari.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Godavari chips have soldered heatspreaders which lowers temps. I think the process is a bit more mature as well but I wouldn't expect much higher OC potential.


----------



## syl1979

I understood only 7890k would be with soldered IHS. Maybe the 880k also


----------



## drmrlordx

The 7870ks are already soldered. Apparently so are the 7670ks?


----------



## The Stilt

Most likely all parts based on Godavari are.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Got a two questions (that could change lol) for you guys. I have been running my 860K @ 4.3 for the past year now at 1.475V set in bios, but under load is 1.456V (lowest stable voltage for 4.3) and I know, massive Vdroop. I see that most of you use LLC, yet when I try to use it all I get is overshoot even on medium. Are any of you experiencing this type of behaviour? I couldn't use it on my 760K either, just overshoots my voltage set in bios.

My second question has to do with Asus Ai suite, Win10 is now supported and I have installed it. Using the 4way optimization just for power savings settings, will it mess with my OC? Any way to lower my idle voltage without compromising what is needed for full load at my current OC of 4.3 @ 1.456V? (1.475V bios)


----------



## drmrlordx

LLC behavior is going to be based on motherboard and to a lesser extent, power supply.

So, which motherboard do you use, and which PSU?


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> LLC behavior is going to be based on motherboard and to a lesser extent, power supply.
> 
> So, which motherboard do you use, and which PSU?


Asus A88X Pro, and Corsair AX850 PSU.


----------



## drmrlordx

Weird, you shouldn't be getting droop like that with solid mobo + PSU. I have an A88x-Pro with an ancient HX520 PSU, and when I have volts cranked up to 1.5v+ for benching, the most droop I get is maybe ~.02v before LLC kicks in,and LLC just puts me up to maybe within .005v of the default I set in the UEFI.

Might be a faulty board? Bad units do happen.


----------



## coffeerox

It does sound pretty odd. Next time I'll restart I'll take note of the settings I have for 4.3ghz.


----------



## coffeerox

Okay so here's the dealie. Voltage is set to 1.44375 in BIOS (I also have NB at 2000). CPU-Z reports 1.432 on Idle and on Prime95 load, it bumps up to 1.44. LLC is set to Medium and Current/NB Current is set to 140/130%. if I don't have NB set to 2000, I have to set voltage in BIOS to 1.5 to be stable.


----------



## drmrlordx

Huh. The voltages seem high for 4.3 GHz, but the droop/load levels don't seem terrible. The main thing is that your voltage is within spitting distance of the UEFI setting (-.00375v). Though I'm perplexed as to why your NB speed has so much effect on the necessary vcore for stability.


----------



## coffeerox

My sample was one of those that had a bad voltage scaling wall. But yeah, 4.3 stabilized with 2000 to NB. Unfortunately I couldn't get 4.4 to lock in and I stopped trying once I reached 1.5.


----------



## drBlahMan

Just curious, is there anybody using a 860k for autocad 2012 (or higher) in this thread? If so, what gpu are you using with the 860k & how is the performance when using autocad?


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Anybody get Rise of the Tomb Raider?


Yes, I do. Runs fine, but what I consider fine may not match with what others think is fine.

My setup:
Asus A88XM-A with latest bios
A8-7650K overclocked to 4.1 Ghz
16GB ddr3 2400
EVGA GTX 960 SSC 2GB

So I don't exactly have the 860K, but the A8 is close. The only reason I have it is that Frys had it on sale for I think it was $74 or $79 several months ago, so at that price it seemed like a good deal. I'm not using the gpu portion right now.
The motherboard was an open box at Microcenter and ended up being less than $10 after a rebate.

Anway, on to game details.
I let the game pick all the settings, and it seems most are on High. I get around 60 fps in most areas, but that Soviet Installation area which is very demanding I have seen dips to around 35 fps. For me, as long as I'm over 30 it's fine. Not great of course, but OK. If I changed some settings I'm sure I could boost those numbers a bit, but it looks good and is smooth enough for me.
For reference I played the last Tomb Raider game with an A10-7850K by itself. At 1080p and normal it just got by, and this I think was with some 2133 ram. This new game is much more demanding.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> Yes, I do. Runs fine, but what I consider fine may not match with what others think is fine.


That sounds great! That's already far beyond what the i3 was reported to be capable of. I think they had to pair the i3 with the 960 just to get 30fps on the same settings.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> Yes, I do. Runs fine, but what I consider fine may not match with what others think is fine.
> 
> My setup:
> Asus A88XM-A with latest bios
> A8-7650K overclocked to 4.1 Ghz
> 16GB ddr3 2400
> EVGA GTX 960 SSC 2GB
> 
> So I don't exactly have the 860K, but the A8 is close. The only reason I have it is that Frys had it on sale for I think it was $74 or $79 several months ago, so at that price it seemed like a good deal. I'm not using the gpu portion right now.
> The motherboard was an open box at Microcenter and ended up being less than $10 after a rebate.
> 
> Anway, on to game details.
> I let the game pick all the settings, and it seems most are on High. I get around 60 fps in most areas, but that Soviet Installation area which is very demanding I have seen dips to around 35 fps. For me, as long as I'm over 30 it's fine. Not great of course, but OK. If I changed some settings I'm sure I could boost those numbers a bit, but it looks good and is smooth enough for me.
> For reference I played the last Tomb Raider game with an A10-7850K by itself. At 1080p and normal it just got by, and this I think was with some 2133 ram. This new game is much more demanding.


Very useful information there. K+

If you could do that with the 7650K, an 860K will do it too. The 7650K's just a lower speed-binned version that still has a functional GPU (I know you know this, but for the information of anyone considering an 860K and reading this thread). And if you're getting 35 fps minimum, that's great. Anyone who insists on getting 60 as a minimum isn't shopping for AMD quad-cores anyway.


----------



## gaster

I may have spoke a bit too soon. I'm further in the game now and I have seen some dips in the mid 20s, maybe 25 fps. Still seems decent overall so I can't complain too much.
The cheap motherboard I have won't take too much overclocking but I may be able to turn it up a little more.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I may have spoke a bit too soon. I'm further in the game now and I have seen some dips in the mid 20s, maybe 25 fps. Still seems decent overall so I can't complain too much.
> The cheap motherboard I have won't take too much overclocking but I may be able to turn it up a little more.


Have you played fallout 4 an how did it do for you? I experienced a similar thing myself. My rig runs the game pretty good mid 50's on the frame rate. But when I get around Diamond city, my frame rate dips into the mid to upper 20's. But I've yet to OC my 860k or sapphire 280x either. I have the gigabyte up4 board but I'm not sure what to do to bump both clocks.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Have you played fallout 4 an how did it do for you? I experienced a similar thing myself. My rig runs the game pretty good mid 50's on the frame rate. But when I get around Diamond city, my frame rate dips into the mid to upper 20's. But I've yet to OC my 860k or sapphire 280x either. I have the gigabyte up4 board but I'm not sure what to do to bump both clocks.


Fallout 4 was a tricky one. In cities and heavy situations, the framerate dips hard but otherwise the game runs at a smooth 60. How I set it up was click Medium, then go in to customize and change the Detail settings to High except Shadow Distance (that's on Medium). Set Tessellation to x16 using Radeon Settings or RadeonPro.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Have you played fallout 4 an how did it do for you? I experienced a similar thing myself. My rig runs the game pretty good mid 50's on the frame rate. But when I get around Diamond city, my frame rate dips into the mid to upper 20's. But I've yet to OC my 860k or sapphire 280x either. I have the gigabyte up4 board but I'm not sure what to do to bump both clocks.


I don't have that game but I did have a UP4 at one point. I would bet you can overclock a decent amount with it and that may help the dips a little. The bios on that board was a bit goofy from what I remember. You can change certain things like ram speed in two places. I've never seen that before, it's a bit confusing. You can probably disable Turbo and change the multiplier to around 41 while leaving the voltage alone. That gives you a mild bump and it should be easy to do. You may be able to higher too, but that would be a good start.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Fallout 4 was a tricky one. In cities and heavy situations, the framerate dips hard but otherwise the game runs at a smooth 60. How I set it up was click Medium, then go in to customize and change the Detail settings to High except Shadow Distance (that's on Medium). Set Tessellation to x16 using Radeon Settings or RadeonPro.


I have been running the game on ultra settings, so I used easy tune app an bumped up cpu performance to medium @4.2 ghz I changed the settings to high across the board an it made a big impact.


----------



## Bobby1776

Hello everyone, i just make registration to be part of Great Overclock.net community.

I am new to OC CPU. I read almost 200 pages of this thread, but because i am new to OC CPU some things are not clear for me.
Here is my PC Specs:

CPU: Atlon x4 860k with stock cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 950 OC
RAM: 8GB ADATA 1600
PSU: 500W Deep Cool
Case Zalman T3 ( The case has 3 slots for 120mm case fans (two on the side panel,one in front panel) i put all of them to intake air in the case. the 4th default one is outtake airflow at the back of case.
One of the side panel fans is make good airflow at CPU and mobo the other at GPU and mobo.
Bios F6
I want to OC my 860k to about 4.2- 4.4Ghz
Can i OC to 4.2 with stock cooler or i need after market one ? I read that some people use Gigabyte easy tune app to OC their CPU to medium 4.2ghz. Is it OK to use that app or any other that can OC CPU ?
Also if i use bios to OC my cpu what bios version is most stable for OC ? Now i am with F6 version.
I need some step by step tutorial or noob friendly video how to OC 860k with GA-F2A88XM-D3H









Thanks in advance for your Help.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hello everyone, i just make registration to be part of Great Overclock.net community.
> 
> I am new to OC CPU. I read almost 200 pages of this thread, but because i am new to OC CPU some things are not clear for me.
> Here is my PC Specs:
> 
> CPU: Atlon x4 860k with stock cooler
> Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1
> GPU: Gigabyte GTX 950 OC
> RAM: 8GB ADATA 1600
> PSU: 500W Deep Cool
> Case Zalman T3 ( The case has 3 slots for 120mm case fans (two on the side panel,one in front panel) i put all of them to intake air in the case. the 4th default one is outtake airflow at the back of case.
> One of the side panel fans is make good airflow at CPU and mobo the other at GPU and mobo.
> Bios F6
> I want to OC my 860k to about 4.2- 4.4Ghz
> Can i OC to 4.2 with stock cooler or i need after market one ? I read that some people use Gigabyte easy tune app to OC their CPU to medium 4.2ghz. Is it OK to use that app or any other that can OC CPU ?
> Also if i use bios to OC my cpu what bios version is most stable for OC ? Now i am with F6 version.
> I need some step by step tutorial or noob friendly video how to OC 860k with GA-F2A88XM-D3H
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your Help.


You can make things a lot easier by going into your user control panel here and changing from 10 comments per thread to 50 or 100. If you set it for 100, this thread is only 25 pages rather than 250.

You're probably not going to get 4.4 GHz on that motherboard, because it's a 4+1 phase board with no heatsinks on the VRM's. It's a reliable board, but not enthusiast-class. About 4.2 would be the best you might get, maybe a little more if you get some cheap heatsinks for the VRM's and make sure you have airflow around that area of the board (sounds like you have that covered). The Giga app might be the best way to go, because it won't OC your system beyond what it can handle. If you want to do it manually, just raise the multiplier in increments of one, test for stability using P95 for several hours, and if it passes, bump it up again. If it's unstable, raise the voltage. And once you get past 4.1 GHz, watch for thermal throttling.

Don't trust the stock cooler beyond the turbo speed of 4.0 GHz. The 860K stock cooler is pretty crappy. Good thing is that a cheap 212 Evo or something in its class is more than enough for most 860K's no matter how far you OC, within reason.


----------



## Jack13

Welcome. Right off the bat, upgrade your cooling. No need to go all in with a watercooling solution. Air will do just fine. Get what your budget allows. I use a Noctua NH-U14S and it has never even been close to an issue with heat. Others use a Hyper212 (with mixed results).


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> You can make things a lot easier by going into your user control panel here and changing from 10 comments per thread to 50 or 100. If you set it for 100, this thread is only 25 pages rather than 250.
> 
> You're probably not going to get 4.4 GHz on that motherboard, because it's a 4+1 phase board with no heatsinks on the VRM's. It's a reliable board, but not enthusiast-class. About 4.2 would be the best you might get, maybe a little more if you get some cheap heatsinks for the VRM's and make sure you have airflow around that area of the board (sounds like you have that covered). The Giga app might be the best way to go, because it won't OC your system beyond what it can handle. If you want to do it manually, just raise the multiplier in increments of one, test for stability using P95 for several hours, and if it passes, bump it up again. If it's unstable, raise the voltage. And once you get past 4.1 GHz, watch for thermal throttling.
> 
> Don't trust the stock cooler beyond the turbo speed of 4.0 GHz. The 860K stock cooler is pretty crappy. Good thing is that a cheap 212 Evo or something in its class is more than enough for most 860K's no matter how far you OC, within reason.


Hello, Many Thanks for your Help and answer.
Yes i think that 4,2 Ghz will be just fine for me, or little bit more 4,3 Ghz I know that my mobo is nothing special i build my first Budget Gaming PC after i quit xbox360 gaming.
I saw some cheap VRM heatsinks in Aliexpress. The problem with after market CPU Cooler is that my case is 189 x 427.5 x 364mm and there is no enough space for normal CPU Fan. Can you recomended some CPU cooler that will fit in my case ?
I have problems with side panel fan. The Standard 120mm fans are 25mm and there was no room for that fan, because of GPU. I was need to find slim 120mm/15mm. that fit just perfect.
About the Giga app there is 3 options for Auto OC:
1. Light - 4.1 Ghz
2. Medium - 4.2 Ghz
3. Extreme -4.3 Ghz

I am planing to choose 2.Medium. But read that people has problems after using that app.( cant downgrade to normal speeds etc.) I hope that is just some rumors. So i need some feedback about that app first to be sure that everything will be OK.
Thanks again for the tips and Help
I really appreciate it
You didnt say anything about BIOS version


----------



## jsc1973

I haven't used that motherboard on a build in a while, so you might want to create a thread in the "AMD Motherboards" section and ask. I'm sure there have been multiple revisions of the BIOS to come out since I last built with it.


----------



## coffeerox

Hey guys, while I'm here, let me drop the bench videos from Rise of the Tomb Raider.

1080P: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GegAfaqr4s
900P: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X6zi0cwEdk
Xbox One settings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1mzbEwkv-w

I progressed a bit farther and I'm at the Soviet installation. This area is much more demanding. At 1080P, I can maintain an unstable 30FPS lock. I installed Radeon drivers 16.2 and that's stabilized the CPU usage a bit, but it's still high, and encoding overhead brings it back to max utilization.

W/o a doubt the most demanding game I've ever ran with the 860K. Yes, Project Cars and Dead Rising 3 were a much bigger mess FPS-wise (as in unplayable), but that's b/c those games are poorly coded. ROTTR is a different story. The performance optimizations that are suited for AMD were stripped for DX11 and as a result, the hardware has to work harder for a higher framerate.

The silver lining is that a DX12 patch is coming and that should resolve multithread with the GPU and reduce overhead on CPU. Another thing is that my rig (designed to be console equivalent) is able to maintain console settings even in the demanding areas. Where an i3 have failed, the 860K continues to chug along and provides consistent performance.


----------



## NaroonGTX

Gonna be interesting to see how the 860k and other similar CPU's fare on the upcoming Deus Ex game. It will have DX12 support.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> Gonna be interesting to see how the 860k and other similar CPU's fare on the upcoming Deus Ex game. It will have DX12 support.


860K should do A LOT better with DX12 games. The decreased CPU overhead combined with multithreading for the GPU drivers should take a heavy load off.


----------



## Bobby1776

Ok, if i use Easy Tune for OC 860k do i need to turn off Turbo and other Power saving functions in Bios ? Or the app will do that automatically.

Thanks


----------



## newguyeverytime

I'm thinking about replacing my wife's old laptop. Seems to be running terrible since upgrading to windows 10. This is the old laptop http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200347 .

So I need an opinion, this old one sucks battery life and runs terrible from the HDD. It does have really good speakers.

I was thinking of upgrading her to an APU, thinking about the 8800p. She doesn't really game. Is there someone here who could recommend a decent APU laptop with 1080 screen, 500+ SSD, and good speakers? No dedicated GPU please.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> So I need an opinion, this old one sucks battery life and runs terrible from the HDD. It does have really good speakers.
> 
> I was thinking of upgrading her to an APU, thinking about the 8800p. She doesn't really game. Is there someone here who could recommend a decent APU laptop with 1080 screen, 500+ SSD, and good speakers? No dedicated GPU please.


Heres a probook with 8700p http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-probook-655-g2-notebook-pc-%28energy-star%29-v1p87ut-aba

here's a customizable elitebook with 8600p nicely discounted http://store.hp.com/us/en/ConfigureView?catalogId=10051&urlLangId=&langId=-1&storeId=10151&catEntryId=1150151&quantity=1

Here's an Asus with 8800p http://www.frys.com/product/8650610


----------



## Stray_Bullet

880K and 7890k announced !!







http://www.anandtech.com/show/10103/amd-launches-the-a107890k-and-athlon-x4-880k


----------



## jsc1973

Will they be available outside of the Zhōnghuá Rénmín Gònghéguó?


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> 880K and 7890k announced !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/10103/amd-launches-the-a107890k-and-athlon-x4-880k


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> 880K and 7890k announced !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/10103/amd-launches-the-a107890k-and-athlon-x4-880k


i could see myself shellin out for the 880


----------



## drmrlordx

7890k should have been out last November. Oh well.

I guess this means AMD won't be launching AM4 in March after all?


----------



## TinoArg

Athlon 845 seems promising with 10% more IPC.



More benchs and pics here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/48wk6q/just_got_my_amd_athlon_x4_845_here_are_some/
http://imgur.com/a/DTsNz


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Athlon 845 seems promising with 10% more IPC.
> 
> 
> 
> More benchs and pics here:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/48wk6q/just_got_my_amd_athlon_x4_845_here_are_some/
> http://imgur.com/a/DTsNz


It's an option for using on cheap motherboards that can't OC and mini-ITX rigs with limited cooling, but not particularly interesting otherwise, since it can't be overclocked very much. For a desktop build, I'd rather have an 860, or an 880 if they actually become available.


----------



## syl1979

If 845 is 1200/4540, the unlocked processors will be better for heavy multithread...

[email protected] & Northbridge 2000Mhz (H24)
Simple : 1220
Multiple : 4866


----------



## newguyeverytime

AMD needs to release an unlocked 845 or something.


----------



## tone1492

l
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Will they be available outside of the Zhōnghuá Rénmín Gònghéguó?


best comment in the thread ever lol


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> AMD needs to release an unlocked 845 or something.


There's no such thing. The 845's are nothing but mobile Carrizo chips that have defective GPU sections.


----------



## tone1492

If 95 bucks is the gonna be the true MSRP for the 880K I'm gonna have to pass. That's over 20 bucks more than I paid for my 860K. Considering the minuscule IPC increase that CPU would be overpriced. If the stock cooler is good enough to hit 4.4 or 4.5 GHZ then maybe the price is justified.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> There's no such thing. The 845's are nothing but mobile Carrizo chips that have defective GPU sections.


Why can't they unlock the multiplier?


----------



## NaroonGTX

The multiplier being locked is probably because there's not much OC headroom to begin with. Would probably top out at around 4.2ghz.

The real reason these are CPU-only parts isn't much to do with the GPU being defective, it's to do with the fact that the FM2+ platform can't physically power the GPU to begin with due to design oversights. I think every CPU/APU design after Kaveri had three separate power planes: one for the CPU vcore, another for the Northbridge, and another for the GPU. FM2r2 can't support this last one, so therefore no iGPU. These parts were designed and meant for mobile, I guess they decided to release this limited dumbed-down part to give people a rough idea of what to expect out of Bristol Ridge which will launch in the coming months.


----------



## newguyeverytime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NaroonGTX*
> 
> The multiplier being locked is probably because there's not much OC headroom to begin with. Would probably top out at around 4.2ghz.
> 
> The real reason these are CPU-only parts isn't much to do with the GPU being defective, it's to do with the fact that the FM2+ platform can't physically power the GPU to begin with due to design oversights. I think every CPU/APU design after Kaveri had three separate power planes: one for the CPU vcore, another for the Northbridge, and another for the GPU. FM2r2 can't support this last one, so therefore no iGPU. These parts were designed and meant for mobile, I guess they decided to release this limited dumbed-down part to give people a rough idea of what to expect out of Bristol Ridge which will launch in the coming months.


The cast majority of 860k's top out at 4.3, so a 4.2 ghz carrizo would be swell.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> The cast majority of 860k's top out at 4.3, so a 4.2 ghz carrizo would be swell.


Heck I have to use shock spells just to keep my 860K stable at 4.3. Water cooled on a top tier A88X motherboard smh


----------



## RESPEKTROMETR

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I cannot set offset to 0, as it goes to Auto... So I set minimum + 0.00625[/quot
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> Why can't they unlock the multiplier?
> 
> 
> 
> They could. One of the more knowledgeable people on this forum posted the reason is that no one would buy the Kaveri or Godaveri Athlons parts if the Carrizo Athlons were unlocked. So AMD kept them locked.
Click to expand...


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newguyeverytime*
> 
> The cast majority of 860k's top out at 4.3, so a 4.2 ghz carrizo would be swell.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> If 95 bucks is the gonna be the true MSRP for the 880K I'm gonna have to pass. That's over 20 bucks more than I paid for my 860K. Considering the minuscule IPC increase that CPU would be overpriced. If the stock cooler is good enough to hit 4.4 or 4.5 GHZ then maybe the price is justified.


They should offer an OEM version without the cooler. Lots of people have multiple retail coolers from prior builds.


----------



## 7850K

Even if an unlocked carizzo was available, it's top clock probably wouldn't best the performance of what most Kaveri/Godavari's could clock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RESPEKTROMETR*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Nice







I'm hoping the 880K can manage that with less voltage


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Even if an unlocked carizzo was available, it's top clock probably wouldn't best the performance of what most Kaveri/Godavari's could clock.
> Nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping the 880K can manage that with less voltage


I bet it can, look at the Stoney Ridge (1M/2T Excavator) bench leaked: http://wccftech.com/amds-stoney-ridge-performance-market-positioning-detailed/



At 3.5GHz (maybe less, because that max Turbo, base is 2.9GHz), gets 2508 in GeekBench in single-thread, while the 860K at 4GHz Turbo gets 2415. Thats 18% more IPC!! At only 4250MHz should perform like a 5GHz Steamroller or 5.5GHz Piledriver! And with Bristol Ridge, the announced unlocked models with the same frequencies than the first Kaveri APUs.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> I bet it can, look at the Stoney Ridge (1M/2T Excavator) bench leaked: http://wccftech.com/amds-stoney-ridge-performance-market-positioning-detailed/
> 
> 
> 
> At 3.5GHz (maybe less, because that max Turbo, base is 2.9GHz), gets 2508 in GeekBench in single-thread, while the 860K at 4GHz Turbo gets 2415. Thats 18% more IPC!! At only 4250MHz should perform like a 5GHz Steamroller or 5.5GHz Piledriver! And with Bristol Ridge, the announced unlocked models with the same frequencies than the first Kaveri APUs.


PS: Those Pentiums are 2C/4T Skylake (so more like a underlocked i3). With +40% more IPC from Zen, it will be very close at the same frequency.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> I bet it can, look at the Stoney Ridge (1M/2T Excavator) bench leaked: http://wccftech.com/amds-stoney-ridge-performance-market-positioning-detailed/
> 
> 
> 
> At 3.5GHz (maybe less, because that max Turbo, base is 2.9GHz), gets 2508 in GeekBench in single-thread, while the 860K at 4GHz Turbo gets 2415. Thats 18% more IPC!! At only 4250MHz should perform like a 5GHz Steamroller or 5.5GHz Piledriver! And with Bristol Ridge, the announced unlocked models with the same frequencies than the first Kaveri APUs.


18% percent more IPC over Kaveri? Hmmm. I'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## damric

I downloaded Tomb Raider today from Steam since it is on sale this weekend for dirt cheap. I got it because it comes with a benchmark.

My 860K results:

CPU: 4.5GHz 2GHz NB
RAM: 2133CL8
HD 7850: 1200/1500 (Single GPU)
HD 7850 x2: 1125/1400 (CFX)

1080p ULTRA with FXAA

Single GPU:

Min FPS: 31.0
Max FPS: 56.0
Avg FPS: 42.7

CrossfireX:

Min: 54.3
Max: 100.0
Avg: 80.1

This benchmark completely saturated my graphics cards, even in crossfire mode. It was nice to see that the 860K could push both cards to 99% for the whole benchmark.

I have a Skylake i3 arriving next week so I'll be benching that soon


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I downloaded Tomb Raider today from Steam since it is on sale this weekend for dirt cheap. I got it because it comes with a benchmark.
> 
> My 860K results:
> 
> CPU: 4.5GHz 2GHz NB
> RAM: 2133CL8
> HD 7850: 1200/1500 (Single GPU)
> HD 7850 x2: 1125/1400 (CFX)
> 
> 1080p ULTRA with FXAA
> 
> Single GPU:
> 
> Min FPS: 31.0
> Max FPS: 56.0
> Avg FPS: 42.7
> 
> CrossfireX:
> 
> Min: 54.3
> Max: 100.0
> Avg: 80.1
> 
> This benchmark completely saturated my graphics cards, even in crossfire mode. It was nice to see that the 860K could push both cards to 99% for the whole benchmark.
> 
> I have a Skylake i3 arriving next week so I'll be benching that soon


My I5 6600K is coming on Mon or Tue! Man I'm excited. I love my 860k and will toss it in a backup rig I hop to finish by May. I have to say those 7850s did well in crossfire with the 860K. I know you have a stubborn chip like I do. Where is your voltage set now to maintain 4.5?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> My I5 6600K is coming on Mon or Tue! Man I'm excited. I love my 860k and will toss it in a backup rig I hop to finish by May. I have to say those 7850s did well in crossfire with the 860K. I know you have a stubborn chip like I do. Where is your voltage set now to maintain 4.5?


Bwahahahha my voltage was 1.65 to stabilize that enough for some extended benchmarks today









Needless to say I dialed it back to 4.2GHz as soon as I was finished benching.

If it's literally freezing cold in my lab, I can do like 1.55ish volts and be very stable.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> 18% percent more IPC over Kaveri? Hmmm. I'll just have to wait and see.


the Stilt said in his tests it was more like 5%. But benches vary quite a bit. If it was really that much better they would've released an unlocked chip and called it an 890K.
But I'm still very curious to see how it does in games.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Bwahahahha my voltage was 1.65 to stabilize that enough for some extended benchmarks today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say I dialed it back to 4.2GHz as soon as I was finished benching.
> 
> If it's literally freezing cold in my lab, I can do like 1.55ish volts and be very stable.


DANG! 1.65 lol. I will say those 860ks can take a lot of juice. I've been running 4.3 on 1.5v in the BIOS since June. Not even a hiccup in performance or any sign of instability.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> the Stilt said in his tests it was more like 5%. But benches vary quite a bit. If it was really that much better they would've released an unlocked chip and called it an 890K.
> But I'm still very curious to see how it does in games.


Yeah 18% did not sound right for a refresh CPU.


----------



## Spawne32

are the 880K's on sale? i been hearing about them since the summer of 2015 but nothing ever surfaced


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> are the 880K's on sale? i been hearing about them since the summer of 2015 but nothing ever surfaced


The last I heard, the *projected* date was April 8th. But who really knows...it could be May or June.


----------



## Spawne32

looks like your right, see a couple stores finally have it up with units coming in stock on 4/8/2016, trying to find an OEM version like i did with the 860k with no cooler.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> The last I heard, the *projected* date was April 8th. But who really knows...it could be May or June.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> looks like your right, see a couple stores finally have it up with units coming in stock on 4/8/2016, trying to find an OEM version like i did with the 860k with no cooler.


I don't see it for sale or pre-order anywhere?


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I don't see it for sale or pre-order anywhere?


http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-athlon-x4-880k-black-edition/amd_ad880kxbjcsbx~b3f8052.html


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-athlon-x4-880k-black-edition/amd_ad880kxbjcsbx~b3f8052.html


Thanks, just pre-ordered mine.


----------



## Scorpion49

Looks the like 870k is up as well after we've known about it for what, 2 years? http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000502_B3F8050P.shtml&order_id=761927322&sitem=B3F8050


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Looks the like 870k is up as well after we've known about it for what, 2 years? http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000502_B3F8050P.shtml&order_id=761927322&sitem=B3F8050


Might actually be the one to buy, since I seriously doubt that AMD extensively tested these chips and binned them for a 100 MHz difference. Probably less difference than 8320's vs. 8350's, if any at all other than the price.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Might actually be the one to buy, since I seriously doubt that AMD extensively tested these chips and binned them for a 100 MHz difference. Probably less difference than 8320's vs. 8350's, if any at all other than the price.


I've got one on the way for some testing. I thought about grabbing the X4 845 as well, maybe next week. I also got the ASRock A88M-G/3.1 which ships with BIOS to support all of the new chips, probably not the best board ever with its 4+2 but it is VRM heatsinked and after having three $150 FM2+ boards at the same time I realized its all down to the chip more than anything.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Looks the like 870k is up as well after we've known about it for what, 2 years? http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=011003000502_B3F8050P.shtml&order_id=761927322&sitem=B3F8050


Where did this place come from? Why are they only place it seems to have the three new Athlons?


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Where did this place come from? Why are they only place it seems to have the three new Athlons?


I've seen them around but have never purchased from them. They have a warehouse in between me and the closest Microcenter and they have a will call option for order pickups. On my next excursion that way, I may have to check it out. Some of their prices don't seem too bad, but their website is a bit of a pain to just browse around on.


----------



## Jack13

It looks like more sites are starting to get them. If you search for AMD AD870KXBJCSBX quite a few (most I've never heard of) pop up.

EDIT: Now Newegg has them on their site.


----------



## Spawne32

for you guys that are picking up the 870s and 880s, post up some side by side comparisons of it against the 860k, im curious to see what kinda improvements excavator will give over steamroller.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> for you guys that are picking up the 870s and 880s, post up some side by side comparisons of it against the 860k, im curious to see what kinda improvements excavator will give over steamroller.


None of them are excavator, that is the x4 845. The 870k and 880k are Kaveri and Godavari respectively, although I think the only difference might be is if the 880k is soldered and the 870k is not.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> None of them are excavator, that is the x4 845. The 870k and 880k are Kaveri and Godavari respectively, although I think the only difference might be is if the 880k is soldered and the 870k is not.


oh well thats just dumb lol here i thought we were getting something new :rollseyes:


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> None of them are excavator, that is the x4 845. The 870k and 880k are Kaveri and Godavari respectively, although I think the only difference might be is if the 880k is soldered and the 870k is not.


I believe the 870K is also Godavari


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I believe the 870K is also Godavari


Do you know if its soldered? Thats really what I want to know for either of those chips honestly.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Do you know if its soldered? Thats really what I want to know for either of those chips honestly.


The 870K is a 7870K with the iGPU disabled, which is both Godavari and soldered, so I suppose the Athlon is soldered too (they are tested and binned after being assembled).


----------



## Spawne32

so has anyone done any testing of the 845k oc'ed vs an 860k oc'ed?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> so has anyone done any testing of the 845k oc'ed vs an 860k oc'ed?


Here is a thread about it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1591886/excavator-desktop-yeaah-there-is-it


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Here is a thread about it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1591886/excavator-desktop-yeaah-there-is-it


ah i remember now, 845k is locked multi isnt it


----------



## tone1492

Eagerly waiting to see 870K and 880K OC numbers and benchmarks. After upgrading to Skylake I need a reason not to give my motherboard to my friend lol. I If they can avg 4.5 4.6 I will have a go at one.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Eagerly waiting to see 870K and 880K OC numbers and benchmarks. After upgrading to Skylake I need a reason not to give my motherboard to my friend lol. I If they can avg 4.5 4.6 I will have a go at one.


Mine will be here next tuesday, I wish I had waited a few hours to get one off of newegg. I also picked up another 860k for comparison purposes.


----------



## speedy22

There is no difference between 860k to 880k, it is only a speed bump processor.
With a 860k at stock voltage you can do easily 4.2ghz without effort.
Actually i turn at 4.3ghz for 1.435v, upper like 4.4 it ask me an incredible 1.48v for only 100mhz of gain and run to hot for my wc.

So don't expect to get more like 4.6, because i'm 100% sure that it is not possible and you will need to be lucky^^

Anyway in cinebech R15 with a G.Skill Trident ddr3 2400 16gb my score is of 351cb and i'm satisfy but this processor showed his limit in some games and it is not enought for the future FM2+ is near of death


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> There is no difference between 860k to 880k, it is only a speed bump processor.
> With a 860k at stock voltage you can do easily 4.2ghz without effort.
> Actually i turn at 4.3ghz for 1.435v, upper like 4.4 it ask me an incredible 1.48v for only 100mhz of gain and run to hot for my wc.
> 
> So don't expect to get more like 4.6, because i'm 100% sure that it is not possible and you will need to be lucky^^
> 
> Anyway in cinebech R15 with a G.Skill Trident ddr3 2400 16gb my score is of 351cb and i'm satisfy but this processor showed his limit in some games and it is not enought for the future FM2+ is near of death


Dude, you are making too many assumptions here. Yes it is a speed bump. It is soldered instead of using crappy thermal interface material. In all likely hood it has more headroom than an 860K. Just like my 7870K has more headroom than my 7850K. I have three 860K's, a 7850K and all do 4.5+ GHz at about 1.48. The 7870K 4.6+ GHz. So you must just have a crappy chip or motherboard. Or both.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> There is no difference between 860k to 880k, it is only a speed bump processor.


no real difference in the silicon, but they are better binned parts and have shown to clock higher on average.


----------



## speedy22

I have the new motherboard Asrock A88m-G/3.1 it is not bad and does his job well
The max i did with my cpu is 4.6 but for 1.51v so i don't think it's so crappy but he is near the borderline of the max safe.

But the problème there is not enough gain between 4.3 to 4.6
Only 300mhz for a big consumption ?
That's ridiculous.........

The only difference you will see with the new cpu is the temp all the rest will be identical with no gain.....
The benefit ? a low cooler becoming a better cooler


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> I have the new motherboard Asrock A88m-G/3.1 it is not bad and does his job well
> The max i did with my cpu is 4.6 but for 1.51v so i don't think it's so crappy but he is near the borderline of the max safe.
> 
> But the problème there is not enough gain between 4.3 to 4.6
> Only 300mhz for a big consumption ?
> That's ridiculous.........
> 
> The only difference you will see with the new cpu is the temp all the rest will be identical with no gain.....
> The benefit ? a low cooler becoming a better cooler


Dude, we understand. But this is a thread about having fun with these chips. Let us have our fun.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Dude, we understand. But this is a thread about having fun with these chips. Let us have our fun.


Agreed. While I can't think of a single really compelling reason to get one of the new ones, I also can't think of a good reason not to. If nothing else, it'll help curb the itch for a new build until Zen sees the light of day.


----------



## Spawne32

sucks because my 860K is throwing down single threaded performance numbers in passmark that the 845k is doing out of the box, i would have loved to have seen what an excavator core could do. Im running my 860K at 4.5ghz on water at around 1.55v, just cant really justify going to a 880k just because its binned better or soldered. Not unless people are blowing those numbers out of the water that my 860K put down.


----------



## maltamonk

Because of it's price
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> sucks because my 860K is throwing down single threaded performance numbers in passmark that the 845k is doing out of the box, i would have loved to have seen what an excavator core could do. Im running my 860K at 4.5ghz on water at around 1.55v, just cant really justify going to a 880k just because its binned better or soldered. Not unless people are blowing those numbers out of the water that my 860K put down.


Would it be fair to conclude from that, that the 845 would do as well in games that favor single threaded performance (mmo's etc) as the 860k? If so that would be fantastic for my htpc as I want to keep the budget as slim as possible.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Because of it's price
> Would it be fair to conclude from that, that the 845 would do as well in games that favor single threaded performance (mmo's etc) as the 860k? If so that would be fantastic for my htpc as I want to keep the budget as slim as possible.


i would assume that, it actually scored about 20-30 points higher in passmark single threaded tests then my 860k @ 4.5


----------



## gaster

The 845 might not be so great at gaming. The smaller L2 cache may be the culprit. Anyway, here is a new review with some GTA V numbers: http://www.jagatoc.com/2016/03/hands-on-review-overclocking-athlon-x4-845-carrizo-murah-tanpa-igp/6/


----------



## Scorpion49

Well most of my parts are here, barring the 870k that should be here next Tuesday. I figured I can test everything on the 860k first and see if there is a noticeable cooling/overclocking difference with everything else remaining the same.

Parts:
- ASRock A88M-G/3.1
- 8GB G-skill 2133mhz DDR3 (single rank, it was $32 so I can't complain)
- 240GB ADATA SP550 SSD
- Athlon 860k

I'll be using my Thermalright Macho with a single fan, all the parts are in my old Fractal Define S with a Rosewill 600W PSU. Currently installing Windows 7 Home Premium as thats what I have a DVD for at hand.

I'm fairly impressed with this little ASRock board, very black PCB with no real frills but it does have a functional heatsink on the VRM. Nice to have 8 SATA ports on an mATX board as well.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> The 845 might not be so great at gaming. The smaller L2 cache may be the culprit. Anyway, here is a new review with some GTA V numbers: http://www.jagatoc.com/2016/03/hands-on-review-overclocking-athlon-x4-845-carrizo-murah-tanpa-igp/6/


2/4 FPS difference isn't that bad. The good thing is that this is cheaper than the 860K and b/c it's not meant to be OC'ed, you can use a cheaper motherboard and don't have to buy 3rd party HSF.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> 2/4 FPS difference isn't that bad. The good thing is that this is cheaper than the 860K and b/c it's not meant to be OC'ed, you can use a cheaper motherboard and don't have to buy 3rd party HSF.


Those are good points. I guess it's all about perspective.

I just got an 845 in myself to play with. My previous cpu was an A8-7650K. With the A8 I normally disable turbo and set the multiplier to 41 for 4.1 Ghz. For the sake of some benchmarks I ran it at stock and also at the 4.1 Ghz. Then I swapped in the 845. I guess I was oblivious to the fact that the 845 doesn't have the 2400Mhz memory multiplier, so I had to run my RAM at 2133. I did not go back and run the A8 benchmarks again with the ram at the lower 2133 because it would be too much work and I was lazy. So this isn't a completely fair comparison.
Note I am not even remotely a professional reviewer. I did not do a clean install of windows before running benchmarks with each cpu. I also ran things once and that was it. No multiple runs.
Anyway, here are the numbers. Sorry about the bad formatting:

Hardware:
A88XM-A
16GB DDR3 HYPERX BEAST, 2400Mhz, 11-13-14-32 for A8-7650K
16GB DDR3 HYPERX BEAST, 2133Mhz, 11-13-30-30 for 845
EVGA GTX 960 SSC 2GB
A8-7650K at stock and also 4.1 GHz
AMD Athlon 845 at stock
Auto voltages for both cpus

CPU-Z SINGLE MULTI
A8 STOCK 1073 4004
A8 4.1 1193 4738
845 1203 4563

RISE OF THE TOMB RAIDER
OVERALL
A8 STOCK 53.28
A8 4.1 54.5
845 53.77

ARKHAM KNIGHT
MIN MAX AVG
A8 STOCK 45 79 63
A8 4.1 48 87 67
845 39 74 57

Note Rise of the Tomb Raider just got an update with a built in benchmark which is nice. There is more detail and results, but I just went with the Overall since it was easier.


----------



## Scorpion49

Don't forget the 845 only has x8 PCI-E lanes which can be a problem in some builds. Nice info though.

I'm getting stuff installed to do some tests myself. I'm not sure if its this ASRock board or the new CPU but this FM2+ system is super smooth compared to the ones I was working with before. I always felt a little bit of stuttering just doing basic desktop stuff, for example loading a web page would cause a micro-pause that was very noticeable and very annoying.


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Don't forget the 845 only has x8 PCI-E lanes which can be a problem in some builds.


How would that be an issue?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> How would that be an issue?


What if you want to plug more than a GPU in? There are plenty of other PCI-E devices out there.


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> What if you want to plug more than a GPU in? There are plenty of other PCI-E devices out there.


Like crossfire or sli? Wouldn't that be a bit much for such a low end cpu? I'm just having a hard time imagining a build where any high dollar pci part/s would be paired with such a low end cpu.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Like crossfire or sli? Wouldn't that be a bit much for such a low end cpu? I'm just having a hard time imagining a build where any high dollar pci part/s would be paired with such a low end cpu.


Could be, you actually tend to see SLI/CF a lot on cheap builds because people can find some older cards for cheap. Or maybe they need a RAID card or something else, I don't know. The point was just to be aware of it, I'm not even sure how AMD handles the reduced lanes on existing boards, like X99 with the 5820k can end up with some slots disabled depending on the motherboard.


----------



## NaroonGTX

AFAIK 8x PCI-E 3.0 lanes is about the same as 16x PCI-E 2.0 lanes. Not sure if it's just a speed/bandwidth difference or actual amount of lanes, but you'd be hard-pressed to saturate all that anyway.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> The 845 might not be so great at gaming. The smaller L2 cache may be the culprit. Anyway, here is a new review with some GTA V numbers: http://www.jagatoc.com/2016/03/hands-on-review-overclocking-athlon-x4-845-carrizo-murah-tanpa-igp/6/


I can't read Bahasa Indonesia, but I could read the charts. It doesn't look like it helps any in the latest games. The L2 has to be the issue, since it's clear that Excavator has a higher IPC than Kaveri.

If these sell cheaper than the 860K, then they're a viable alternative to it for a basic rig that isn't going to be used for gaming and won't be overclocked. I'm not interested in messing with BCLK overclocking on APU's and all of the problems that can entail. I had enough of that with Cyrix and their oddball overclocked FSB's in the 1990s. If they'd drop an 890K on the Excavator core, I'd be interested in that, but that isn't going to happen.

At some point, I'll probably get an 870K or 880K and give this 860 to a friend, but the 845 is a no-go for me without being able to change the multiplier.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Like crossfire or sli?


Like NVMe SSDs or high-speed NICs.


----------



## damric

Got my Skylake i3 installed. I just ran a Cinebench R15 at stock settings to compare to my Athlon 860K.





I'll post some more comparisons later









Edit:

Ouch Firestrike physics test really hurt the stock i3...

Physics Score 3084
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11197781?

OC'd 860K did much better:

Physics Score 5287
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3730363

We'll see what happens when I overclock the i3


----------



## Scorpion49

Been playing with my new 860k, this is a really bad chip like my last one. It will barely boot to windows at 4100mhz, and it doesn't like a lot of voltage. I picked up a sweet budget system today locally though, guy was selling an FX6300/990FXA-UD3 R5 combo with 16GB of DDR3, a 2TB WD Green and a brand new EVGA GTX 960 SSC and EVGA 650W GQ PSU along with a Qnix QX2710 for super cheap. I went and picked it up, the case was trash and the I/O shield was missing but it will be fun to bench against the 870k when it comes in next week.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> Note I am not even remotely a professional reviewer. I did not do a clean install of windows before running benchmarks with each cpu. I also ran things once and that was it. No multiple runs.
> Anyway, here are the numbers.


Nice benchmark! I think in this case the RAM speed did affect Batman but overall the 845 is looking like it does great sitting at stock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I always felt a little bit of stuttering just doing basic desktop stuff, for example loading a web page would cause a micro-pause that was very noticeable and very annoying.


Are you using Firefox? That happens to me too but the problems disappear when I use Chrome or Edge. I'm trying to use less and less of FF b/c this browser is plain slow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Got my Skylake i3 installed. I just ran a Cinebench R15 at stock settings to compare to my Athlon 860K.


Interesting!! I wonder how that single core rating translates to real usage? Do you have Borderlands 2 or some other dual core games to test out?
Quote:


> Ouch Firestrike physics test really hurt the stock i3...


That is extremely odd.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I picked up a sweet budget system today locally though, guy was selling an FX6300/990FXA-UD3 R5 combo with 16GB of DDR3, a 2TB WD Green and a brand new EVGA GTX 960 SSC and EVGA 650W GQ PSU along with a Qnix QX2710 for super cheap.


Nice find! I'm interested to see how the FX6300 matches up with the 860K. Wasn't an OC'ed 860K supposed to be on par or very similar to the 6300?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Nice benchmark! I think in this case the RAM speed did affect Batman but overall the 845 is looking like it does great sitting at stock.
> Are you using Firefox? That happens to me too but the problems disappear when I use Chrome or Edge. I'm trying to use less and less of FF b/c this browser is plain slow.
> Interesting!! I wonder how that single core rating translates to real usage? Do you have Borderlands 2 or some other dual core games to test out?
> That is extremely odd.
> Nice find! I'm interested to see how the FX6300 matches up with the 860K. Wasn't an OC'ed 860K supposed to be on par or very similar to the 6300?


I use Chrome, but at one point I had half a dozen FM2+ CPU's and different kits of RAM with three different motherboards and they all acted pretty much the same. I'll get down to running the 6300 on Monday probably, going to be busy all day tomorrow.


----------



## DannyDK

I believe it is the fx6100 and not the fx6300 wich it equals


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I believe it is the fx6100 and not the fx6300 wich it equals


without an OC it's better than the FX-6100, even pure multithread.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Got my Skylake i3 installed. I just ran a Cinebench R15 at stock settings to compare to my Athlon 860K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post some more comparisons later
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Ouch Firestrike physics test really hurt the stock i3...
> 
> Physics Score 3084
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11197781?
> 
> OC'd 860K did much better:
> 
> Physics Score 5287
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3730363
> 
> We'll see what happens when I overclock the i3


Stock i3 6300 gets over 6400 in Physics, so your results are messed up.

A better comparison for the Athlons are the Pentiums or even Sandy i3. There really is no comparison to a Haswell or Skylake i3.

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5649554

Around 5K.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyDK*
> 
> I believe it is the fx6100 and not the fx6300 wich it equals


http://www.overclock.net/t/1493307/relative-access-to-execution-throughput-comparison-chart


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Stock i3 6300 gets over 6400 in Physics, so your results are messed up.
> 
> A better comparison for the Athlons are the Pentiums or even Sandy i3. There really is no comparison to a Haswell or Skylake i3.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5649554
> 
> Around 5K.


+1000


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956*
> 
> Stock i3 6300 gets over 6400 in Physics, so your results are messed up.
> 
> A better comparison for the Athlons are the Pentiums or even Sandy i3. There really is no comparison to a Haswell or Skylake i3.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/5649554
> 
> Around 5K.


I suspected as such. I hadn't done a clean install yet and was also running on the integrated graphics. I'm scoring over 6K at stock now with a bunch of other crap running in background









http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11216311?


----------



## jsc1973

You can match a Sandy with an overclocked 860K, but not a Skylake. I doubt you could clock it high enough for that without exotic cooling.

I had a Firestrike Physics score of 5424, and that was better than most people got with an 860K. I'd guess you'd have to be running about 5.3 GHz to match a Skylake with four threads.


----------



## RESPEKTROMETR

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10256007 5581 Physics score


----------



## speedy22

my 860k : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11162159 5115 Physics Score

an old core2quad xeon X5460 mounted on a socket 775 can do better once overclocked at 4.4ghz http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2144936 7572 Physics Score
this processor can beat an I3 6100


----------



## Scorpion49

Ok, so the 870k will be arriving with the mail today, and I'm gearing up for a little 3-way testing between the 860k, 870k and FX 6300. If anyone has a suggestion of what I could use (free programs) I'll have a look at it. I've got a list in mind already.

Yes, I'm aware this has been done to death already but I'm bored as hell waiting for a job interview so I have the time on my hands.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Ok, so the 870k will be arriving with the mail today, and I'm gearing up for a little 3-way testing between the 860k, 870k and FX 6300. If anyone has a suggestion of what I could use (free programs) I'll have a look at it. I've got a list in mind already.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware this has been done to death already but I'm bored as hell waiting for a job interview so I have the time on my hands.


Personally, I'm really looking forward to seeing the results. Thank you in advance!


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Personally, I'm really looking forward to seeing the results. Thank you in advance!


It should be entertaining anyways, and I'll throw in my 6700k as well so there can be comparison to "top end" stuff. I'm downloading games with built in benches on steam right now, stuff like Bioshock infinite and Shadows of mordor.


----------



## speedy22

me too, but i don't expect there is any change between 860k vs 870k
if you can test cinebench r15,3dmark firestrike, aida64 memory it'll would be perfect


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> me too, but i don't expect there is any change between 860k vs 870k
> if you can test cinebench r15,3dmark firestrike, aida64 memory it'll would be perfect


I expect a minor difference in the memory department and how high they overclock, as well as temps. But we don't know until we do it. Since I have the time and the parts, might as well. I'll check AIDA64, but I hate the trial version and I've already used up all 3 "installs" of my legit version. Why they can't license like FRAPS does makes no sense to me on a program that will be used on many PC's.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Ok, so the 870k will be arriving with the mail today, and I'm gearing up for a little 3-way testing between the 860k, 870k and FX 6300. If anyone has a suggestion of what I could use (free programs) I'll have a look at it. I've got a list in mind already.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware this has been done to death already but I'm bored as hell waiting for a job interview so I have the time on my hands.


Good luck on any future job interviews first of all, but yeah the spotlight is on you right now. Looking fwd to these tests. Trying to decide if my old A88X parts are worth keeping as a foundation for a backup rig or not.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Good luck on any future job interviews first of all, but yeah the spotlight is on you right now. Looking fwd to these tests. Trying to decide if my old A88X parts are worth keeping as a foundation for a backup rig or not.


No pressure! I'm considering right now if I want to try and use Windows 10 for the benching, it should run for 2-3 days without a key IIRC. Otherwise I have to use Windows 7 since it allows up to 30 days. Not sure I will see any difference but Windows 7 takes about 4-6 hours on a standard HDD to get the updates done.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well the 870k arrived, it has a slightly different cooler than the other athlons and APU's I've had. It looks like the old Phenom II cooler tbh.


----------



## Jack13

What cooler will you be using for the OC comparisons? I'd be interested to know what the difference is between the two types of stock coolers, how much the new one can handle, etc.
Of course it's easy for me to make these requests since it's not my time I'm spending.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> What cooler will you be using for the OC comparisons? I'd be interested to know what the difference is between the two types of stock coolers, how much the new one can handle, etc.
> Of course it's easy for me to make these requests since it's not my time I'm spending.


The new one isn't much to write home about, its the same thing I think you get with the higher end APU's. I was hoping for the "wraith lite" cooler, which you can get with the 870k, but I chose the wrong one on the order page (one is listed as quiet and one as silent).

I have a couple of choices for the testing cooler, I have a small Cryorig M9a, and then the Thermalright Macho X2 and BeQuiet Dark Rock TF. I could also probably cobble together a custom loop, but I don't think I will bother. My FM2+ board is only a 4+2 so it isn't likely to be setting any records.


----------



## speedy22

let's go man, we are waiting for the result ^^


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> let's go man, we are waiting for the result ^^


lol

I'm going! I just got the first machine installed with Windows 10, the FX6300 is up first just because its hooked up right now already. I've got a spare HDD that I've got all of the crap on for the testing so I just have to transfer it over to that rig. I'll probably be back in the evening with results.


----------



## coffeerox

Are you going to OC the 6300 or bench it stock?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Are you going to OC the 6300 or bench it stock?


I'm not sure how I want to approach this. I'm thinking maybe get the max OC on the worst chip (likely the 860k) and match it with the others? The 6300 on a 990FXA-UD3 R5 is obviously going to go much further than either of the FM2+ chips on a budget ASRock board, I have the cooling and could probably get to 5000mhz+ if the chip will do it.

Or I could shoot for max OC on the 860/870 and an average 4500mhz or so on the 6300? I'm still testing the 860k at the moment, currently stress testing 4100mhz and about to bump up to 4200.


----------



## Scorpion49

Apparently the 860k is trolling me, currently sitting at 35 minutes of P95 blend at 4500mhz 1.325V (1.312V after droop).


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Apparently the 860k is trolling me, currently sitting at 35 minutes of P95 blend at 4500mhz 1.325V (1.312V after droop).


Mine would do long runs on P95 @4600 and would give me great hope...then it would rain on my parade by blue screening a few minutes after booting up windows. Never could get around that, then I lost interest in doing so.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Mine would do long runs on P95 @4600 and would give me great hope...then it would rain on my parade by blue screening a few minutes after booting up windows. Never could get around that, then I lost interest in doing so.


Yeah, I run P95 for about an hour, then IBT maximum for 20 runs, then OCCT for ~20 minutes. I'm doing a quick and dirty OC so I just want it to be bench stable for now. It finally failed at 4500mhz a little after an hour so I backed it down to 4400mhz and that's where it will stay. Currently installing Windows 10 to it while I work on the 6300's overclock.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Apparently the 860k is trolling me, currently sitting at 35 minutes of P95 blend at 4500mhz 1.325V (1.312V after droop).


I have to run at 1.5325 (1.512 after droop) to run at 4500. I'm surprised any 860K will do that well. But then again, mine is well over a year old now and I'm sure the 28nm process has improved a lot.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I have to run at 1.5325 (1.512 after droop) to run at 4500. I'm surprised any 860K will do that well. But then again, mine is well over a year old now and I'm sure the 28nm process has improved a lot.


Yeah, it would probably do even better on a decent board. Much better chip than the last 3 I used that would barely do 4100mhz at 1.450V.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, it would probably do even better on a decent board. Much better chip than the last 3 I used that would barely do 4100mhz at 1.450V.


Either a terrible mobo, or a complete dog of a chip, or both. The one I'm using is a week 37 2014 chip. It would OC stable up to 4.2 at stock voltage, held stability at 4.3 GHz at stock voltage for 45 minutes of P95 before failing, ran stable at 4.4 with 1.45v, and at 4.5 with 1.53. That's the wall, though. It can't even hit 4545 (101 ref clock) with any reasonable settings. Half the time it refused to boot, and the thermal margin under P95 drops into the single digits after a few hours at 4.5.

It also won't work with offsets at all beyond a certain point. I have to hard-set the vcore at 1.5325 to make it run at 4.5 GHz.


----------



## mcspawnagain

what does the K15 stand for as prefix on my 860K?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Either a terrible mobo, or a complete dog of a chip, or both. The one I'm using is a week 37 2014 chip. It would OC stable up to 4.2 at stock voltage, held stability at 4.3 GHz at stock voltage for 45 minutes of P95 before failing, ran stable at 4.4 with 1.45v, and at 4.5 with 1.53. That's the wall, though. It can't even hit 4545 (101 ref clock) with any reasonable settings. Half the time it refused to boot, and the thermal margin under P95 drops into the single digits after a few hours at 4.5.
> 
> It also won't work with offsets at all beyond a certain point. I have to hard-set the vcore at 1.5325 to make it run at 4.5 GHz.


Yeah, this one boots happily at less than stock VID at 4500 and runs for a long time. Stock VID was 1.379V when I checked it initially, I've been running 1.337V which droops to 1.320V under load (this board doesn't seem to have any LLC).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> what does the K15 stand for as prefix on my 860K?


K15 is bulldozer arch prefix.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> what does the K15 stand for as prefix on my 860K?


AMD's used K-something as a codename for several of its microarchitectures over the years:

K5: AMD's Pentium-class CPU, released in 1995. AMD actually sold it under this name.
K6: AMD's first successor to the K5 (cancelled), name reused as the official name of the company's sixth-generation K6-x series (1997-2001). The chip that was released as the K6 was actually developed by NexGen, a smaller company that AMD bought out in 1996.
K7: The original Athlon series, including the Athlon 4, Athlon XP, and Athlon MP, as well as the Duron and early Semprons. The K-designations were just codenames after the K6.
K8: The Athlon 64, Athlon 64 FX, and early Opterons, as well as some Semprons.
K9: Cancelled. I hear it was a real dog anyway.








K10: Phenom, Phenom II, Athlon II, some Opterons, and some Semprons, and the Llano APU's. Phenom II-class chips are sometimes called "K10.5" since it was a significant reworking of the design. Phenom originally seems to have been referred to internally as "K8L" by AMD before being renamed.
K12: AMD's ARM-based microarchitecture. Came out after Bulldozer but has a lower number. After K10, the numbers no longer represent x86 generational products.
K15: All Bulldozer-based cores, regardless of branding.
K16: AMD's low-power x86 microarchitecture. The cat cores, Beema, Mullins, Kabini and the console chips use this.

I don't think AMD has given Zen a "K" number, at least not officially.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah, this one boots happily at less than stock VID at 4500 and runs for a long time. Stock VID was 1.379V when I checked it initially, I've been running 1.337V which droops to 1.320V under load (this board doesn't seem to have any LLC).
> K15 is bulldozer arch prefix.


i have also this problème with my asrock a88m-g/3.1 when i disable the "application power management"
the voltage of the northbridge was approx 1.13v despite my select of "1.27v" in bios but i win a stable llc

if i enable the power management, i can get a stable nb voltage but i lose the cpu llc

for me this motherboard isn't really perfect,...
maybe a new rev bios could help, wait and see.....


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> i have also this problème with my asrock a88m-g/3.1 when i disable the "application power management"
> the voltage of the northbridge was approx 1.13v despite my select of "1.27v" in bios but i win a stable llc
> 
> if i enable the power management, i can get a stable nb voltage but i lose the cpu llc
> 
> for me this motherboard isn't really perfect,...
> maybe a new rev bios could help, wait and see.....


Yeah, definitely not perfect but its a lot better than any other mATX FM2+ board out there except the MSI Gaming one thats out of stock since like a year ago. Plus this one shipped with a BIOS that is compatible with the 870k/800k out of the box which is what I wanted, wasn't expecting to pick up another 860k when I bought it.

Anyway, after a while of fiddling the benches are almost done with the FX chip. I've just set it at an easy 4500mhz as a comparison piece since that is about average OC for that chip and a basic cooler like 212+ EVO.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Mine would do long runs on P95 @4600 and would give me great hope...then it would rain on my parade by blue screening a few minutes after booting up windows. Never could get around that, then I lost interest in doing so.


That drove me nuts last year. Crush Prime 95 for hours with plenty of thermal margin to spare, stop the test feeling like a boss. 10 minutes later the PC freezes watching Youtube vids. smh.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> That drove me nuts last year. Crush Prime 95 for hours with plenty of thermal margin to spare, stop the test feeling like a boss. 10 minutes later the PC freezes watching Youtube vids. smh.


I find using the computer while P95 runs weeds that out pretty effectively. I browse the web and do things normally while it hammers away at the CPU.

Benches are done on the 6300, they're going into an excel spreadsheet. No way in hell am I making 97 billion screenshots for this stuff.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I find using the computer while P95 runs weeds that out pretty effectively. I browse the web and do things normally while it hammers away at the CPU.
> 
> Benches are done on the 6300, they're going into an excel spreadsheet. No way in hell am I making 97 billion screenshots for this stuff.


That's cool spreadsheets work for me


----------



## Scorpion49

Word to the wise, don't let Windows 10 try to do updates while you're running AIDA64 memory benchmark, a bricked OS will result.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Word to the wise, don't let Windows 10 try to do updates while you're running AIDA64 memory benchmark, a bricked OS will result.


I just updated to Windows 10 from my 8.1 when I did my clean install with my Skylake upgrade. It's been nothing but problems. A few of my favorite benchmarks simply don't work anymore, won't even start, or Crossfire broke. So I'm going back to 8.1


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I just updated to Windows 10 from my 8.1 when I did my clean install with my Skylake upgrade. It's been nothing but problems. A few of my favorite benchmarks simply don't work anymore, won't even start, or Crossfire broke. So I'm going back to 8.1


Did you upgrade from a fresh 8.1 to 10? Because I've upgraded from 7 and 8.1 to 10 probably 50 times now and it NEVER works right. You always have to go back and make a new Windows 10 ISO and fresh install. I have no particular problems with 10, but I do notice more of the old benches run on it (3Dm03/06 won't even attempt to start on 8.1).


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Did you upgrade from a fresh 8.1 to 10? Because I've upgraded from 7 and 8.1 to 10 probably 50 times now and it NEVER works right. You always have to go back and make a new Windows 10 ISO and fresh install. I have no particular problems with 10, but I do notice more of the old benches run on it (3Dm03/06 won't even attempt to start on 8.1).


I did a fresh 8.1 then immediately upgraded it to 10. Is there legitimate means to make the Windows 10 ISO or should we discuss that in private?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I did a fresh 8.1 then immediately upgraded it to 10. Is there legitimate means to make the Windows 10 ISO or should we discuss that in private?


Get it here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

I uses Rufus to make a USB stick after I use the Microsoft program to make the ISO file (so I have it later if I need it again). As long as your 10 is showing activated now, you just click "I don't have a key" when you install it and it will auto-activate as soon as you're online. It uses a hardware image instead of a typed key.

If you need help feel free to PM me about it.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Get it here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> 
> I uses Rufus to make a USB stick after I use the Microsoft program to make the ISO file (so I have it later if I need it again). As long as your 10 is showing activated now, you just click "I don't have a key" when you install it and it will auto-activate as soon as you're online. It uses a hardware image instead of a typed key.
> 
> If you need help feel free to PM me about it.


Ahhh one of the most helpful posts +rep


----------



## Scorpion49

Finally got the 870k into the board.. holy crap this thing has a stock 1.475V VID.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Finally got the 870k into the board.. holy crap this thing has a stock 1.475V VID.


Seriously?


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Finally got the 870k into the board.. holy crap this thing has a stock 1.475V VID.


that's why they included a bigger cooler than the 860k^^








because the speed bump ask more voltage









try with this voltage and look how far he can go


----------



## mcspawnagain

ok heres an update on my build that plagued me in the past with os instability and so i thought as profoundly hot temps
i have established to be a good modest build but i still think its unclear what are good temps i have aida 64 X and amd over drive
iam unable to get aftermarket cooler even so iam posting some numbers in the hopes that in fact it is running good. first no turbo, clock mult @39, coolquiet off,,mem oc1866 from 1600
AIDA64 -cores at 43 deg, and 50 at idle/ full spin at 68 although it rarely reaches70
GPU hovers at 60-69 deg
AMD overdrive-TM 29 the cores are claiming its using 40-50% process not sure if that reflects idle
cpu 1.41=VID
thanks for looking
the reason for locking in at targeted multiplier is because it would make a whine occasionally i heard it could be coil whine but i dont know,, its does not do that when at 39.mult


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> that's why they included a bigger cooler than the 860k^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because the speed bump ask more voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try with this voltage and look how far he can go


Yeah I'm going to start pushing it this morning. Ran out of steam last night.


----------



## Scorpion49

Well the 870k is definitely soldered, no way in hell could I have 50C thermal margin on an 860k at 4600mhz 1.475V under IBT load. I don't think I'll get it stable here, this board just isn't up to the task.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Well the 870k is definitely soldered, no way in hell could I have 50C thermal margin on an 860k at 4600mhz 1.475V under IBT load. I don't think I'll get it stable here, this board just isn't up to the task.


That's strange because i can reach 4.6 at 1.51v without any issue on this same motherboard and nb speed at 2000mhz.
The only one thing who suck for me is the temperature and to much consumption for a small better score in bench
That's why i came back to 4.3ghz

Can you show us a firestrike-cinebench at this same speed to see if there is a real difference ?
And about the temp, is it better as the 860k ?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> That's strange because i can reach 4.6 at 1.51v without any issue on this same motherboard and nb speed at 2000mhz.
> The only one thing who suck for me is the temperature and to much consumption for a small better score in bench
> That's why i came back to 4.3ghz
> 
> Can you show us a firestrike-cinebench at this same speed to see if there is a real difference ?
> And about the temp, is it better as the 860k ?


Temp is way better, hottest I've seen it get is 42C thermal margin after an hour of x264 encoding. The 860k would have been at 10-12C margin at much lower volts. Silicon wise, its the same chip but binned for more leakage it seems like. It is benching 100% the same as the 860k but I'll bet it scales better with voltage on a better board.

You say "thats strange" but I'm really not seeing how you got an 860k stable at 4600 with 2000NB on this board, an 860k that will run 4600+ is already exceedingly rare and so is having a stable 2000mhz NB, this is pretty well documented in this thread going back years now. What kind of stress testing did you do on it? Any long duration stress test over ~1.400V and I'm seeing a lot of VRM throttling.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Temp is way better, hottest I've seen it get is 42C thermal margin after an hour of x264 encoding. The 860k would have been at 10-12C margin at much lower volts. Silicon wise, its the same chip but binned for more leakage it seems like. It is benching 100% the same as the 860k but I'll bet it scales better with voltage on a better board.
> 
> You say "thats strange" but I'm really not seeing how you got an 860k stable at 4600 with 2000NB on this board, an 860k that will run 4600+ is already exceedingly rare and so is having a stable 2000mhz NB, this is pretty well documented in this thread going back years now. What kind of stress testing did you do on it? Any long duration stress test over ~1.400V and I'm seeing a lot of VRM throttling.


I'm using : OCCT Linpack-ITB and Realbench

after 2h30 i was fully stable at 4.6 unfortunatly my thermal margin was close to 0 only 10° in full push pull speed
with a heat exchanger 120mm Watercooler HTSF2 + 16gb of g.skill tridentX 2400

In what i understood there is no change between the 860k-870k at same speed clock 4.3ghz ?

Have you another motherboard to compare ?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> I'm using : OCCT Linpack-ITB and Realbench
> 
> after 2h30 i was fully stable at 4.6 but my thermal margin was close to 0 only 10° in full push pull speed
> with a heat exchanger 120mm Watercooler HTSF2 + 16gb of g.skill tridentX 2400
> 
> In what i understood there is no change between the 860k-870k at same speed clock 4.3ghz ?
> 
> Have you another motherboard to compare ?


There is no change at the same clocks, they are the same chip. I don't have any other boards, but I think the 870k could go a lot further with more voltage and no VRM throttling.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> That's strange because i can reach 4.6 at 1.51v without any issue on this same motherboard and nb speed at 2000mhz.
> The only one thing who suck for me is the temperature and to much consumption for a small better score in bench
> That's why i came back to 4.3ghz
> 
> Can you show us a firestrike-cinebench at this same speed to see if there is a real difference ?
> And about the temp, is it better as the 860k ?


^this.
i'd like to see id there' any difference between them at same clock(let's say 4.3 Ghz). I wonder if it's worth paying more for 870k or just go with 860k for less and have same(or very close) performance


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> ^this.
> i'd like to see id there' any difference between them at same clock(let's say 4.3 Ghz). I wonder if it's worth paying more for 870k or just go with 860k for less and have same(or very close) performance


They are identical, based on the same silicon. Don't confuse the 870/880 with the Carrizo chips (Athlon 845)which are faster clock for clock but have other drawbacks. IF I was buying one or the other new, I would get an 870k. It is definitely a soldered chip and the temps and voltage scaling reflect that. If nothing else you could probably go much farther on the stock HSF with an 870/880k due to this fact. I'm seeing temps 20C+ cooler with 100mv more voltage at the same clocks.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> They are identical, based on the same silicon. Don't confuse the 870/880 with the Carrizo chips (Athlon 845)which are faster clock for clock but have other drawbacks. IF I was buying one or the other new, I would get an 870k. It is definitely a soldered chip and the temps and voltage scaling reflect that. If nothing else you could probably go much farther on the stock HSF with an 870/880k due to this fact. I'm seeing temps 20C+ cooler with 100mv more voltage at the same clocks.


bit dissapointing this.
it's about £20 more expensive than 860k, fora little bit more you can get 212evo which is gonna be enough for 4.3-4.4 Ghz oc on 860k.
870k might go higher like you said, maybe 4.5-4.6 on average(for 860k 4.3 was average) but is it worth it? I remember there was no performance gain(or very little, some benchmarks showed even perfomance drop) between 4.2 and 4.4 Ghz for 860k so I wonder if that 4.6ghz oc on 870k will be significantly better than 4.3ghz from 860k(I think maybe couple of fps in newer games- this is where 860k struggles most, i'm not interested in some synthetic bencharks that mean nothing in everyday use, most of us buy this cpu for budget gaming machine).
Thank you for all your benchmarking, surely it takes a lot of time


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> *bit dissapointing this.*
> it's about £20 more expensive than 860k, fora little bit more you can get 212evo which is gonna be enough for 4.3-4.4 Ghz oc on 860k.
> 870k might go higher like you said, maybe 4.5-4.6 on average(for 860k 4.3 was average) but is it worth it? I remember there was no performance gain(or very little, some benchmarks showed even perfomance drop) between 4.2 and 4.4 Ghz for 860k so I wonder if that 4.6ghz oc on 870k will be significantly better than 4.3ghz from 860k(I think maybe couple of fps in newer games- this is where 860k struggles most, i'm not interested in some synthetic bencharks that mean nothing in everyday use, most of us buy this cpu for budget gaming machine).
> Thank you for all your benchmarking, surely it takes a lot of time


Honestly not sure what people are expecting, we know Godavari is just speed-binned Kaveri for years now. I'm confused at the disappointment. But you are right, these chips still do not show big gains at higher frequencies unlike their FX counterparts which keep right on going.

860k at 4400mhz shows nearly identical numbers to 870k at 4500mhz in everything. Very little difference.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Honestly not sure what people are expecting, we know Godavari is just speed-binned Kaveri for years now. I'm confused at the disappointment. But you are right, these chips still do not show big gains at higher frequencies unlike their FX counterparts which keep right on going.
> 
> 860k at 4400mhz shows nearly identical numbers to 870k at 4500mhz in everything. Very little difference.


dissapointed at AMD releasing identical chip for £20(which is 30%) more with a slight overclock out of the box(comparing to the chip that is unlocked and OVERCLOCKABLE). A bit better cooler(who uses stock cooler with 4.3-4.4 ghz oc anyway?) and better temps(with good aftermarket cooler temps were ok on 860k).
looks like the only reason for paying more is to have stable 4.5 ghz oc just for the sake of reaching 4.5 margin.
Anyway, looking forward to see some numbers from your benchmarks


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> Anyway, looking forward to see some numbers from your benchmarks


If all that other stuff disappointed you, better brace yourself now. Going to type up a big long post with the spreadsheets in it. All aboard the disappointment train! TOOT TOOT! Next stop, mediocre-ville.


----------



## Particle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Ahhh one of the most helpful posts +rep


Third party software isn't necessary if you don't wish to use it. To prepare a USB stick for installing Windows when all you have is a DVD ISO, use diskpart.

diskpart
list disk
select disk # (whichever is the USB stick)
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
format fs=fat32 quick
assign (if your USB stick doesn't have a drive letter yet)
exit

At that point, the USB stick is clean, bootable, and otherwise ready. Just extract the ISO to the root of the USB stick using 7zip or something similar.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> dissapointed at AMD releasing identical chip for £20(which is 30%) more with a slight overclock out of the box(comparing to the chip that is unlocked and OVERCLOCKABLE). A bit better cooler(who uses stock cooler with 4.3-4.4 ghz oc anyway?) and better temps(with good aftermarket cooler temps were ok on 860k).
> looks like the only reason for paying more is to have stable 4.5 ghz oc just for the sake of reaching 4.5 margin.
> Anyway, looking forward to see some numbers from your benchmarks


That's what I think too


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> If all that other stuff disappointed you, better brace yourself now. Going to type up a big long post with the spreadsheets in it. All aboard the disappointment train! TOOT TOOT! Next stop, mediocre-ville.


wow, I hope there are at least SOME overclock gains in gaming beyond 4400Mhz... I hope I won't be too disappointed.


----------



## tone1492

As previously mentioned we can't be too surprised at these early findings. Zen is around the corner and AMD needed something to sell to keep their piece of the budget gamer market. We can't expect them to stand still and we also cannot expect too many resources to be spent on dying architecture, so I'm gonna see the positive in this. @Scorpion49 says the chip is soldered and that means ppl looking to overclock to 4.2 or 4.3 on the stock cooler now have more than half a chance to do so. That was not happening with the 860K and the stock cooler without creating a mini furnace.


----------



## Scorpion49

So here are my results from the three-way 860k/870k/FX6300 thing I decided to do (with bonus cameo from 4700mhz 6700k).

Test platforms are as follows.

For the 860k/870k
- ASRock A88M-G/3.1 mATX motherboad. A budget offering with 4+2 VRM. Probably the best FM2+ board for the price and form factor.
- 8GB G-Skill 2133mhz DDR3 9-11-11-31 1.600V RAM
- ADATA SP550 240GB SSD w/Windows 10 Pro
- CPU is cooled with Thermalright Macho X2 with a single TY140 fan. An 80mm APU heatsink fan is used on the VRM heatsink to keep temps down.

For the FX6300
- Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 R5 motherboard
- 16GB Corsair DDR3 1600mhz CL10
- 500GB Seagate HDD w/Windows 10 Pro
- CPU is cooled with BeQuiet Dark Rock TF with a single fan to clear the RAM and overclocked to a generic 4500mhz at 1.400V.

All tests performed with EVGA GTX 970 FTW installed at default 1293mhz clocks. Games were benchmarked at both 1080p and 1440p.

I have run the following programs:

- CB15
- CPU-Z Bench
- Black Hole 4.2
- 3Dmark03 CPU tests
- 3Dmark06 CPU tests
- 3Dmark11
- 3Dmark Firestrike
- Bioshock Infinite built-in benchmarking utility
- Dragon Age Inquisition benchmarking utility
- Armored Warfare FRAPS run through tutorial mission (3 run averages)
- AIDA64 memory bench all the way at the bottom
*
During all of the following the CPU speeds are as listed here:*

*860k - 4400mhz at 1.337V
870k - 4500mhz at 1.450V
FX6300 - 4500mhz at 1.400V
6700k - 4700mhz at 1.325V*

First we have Cinebench 15, as requested. Zero difference here even though the 870k was 100mhz higher clocked. FX6300 surprisingly took the top spot for ST, maybe the L3 cache?










Next is the CPU-Z bench, maybe useless but it was easy to do so I did it. Once again the FX6300 takes the MT but ST is very close between all three.










Then we have 3Dmark03 CPU tests 1 and 2, the FM2+ chips take a small lead here but it is very close overall.










Now is 3Dmark06 CPU tests, FX6300 wins this one by a decent margin. Again, possibly related to L3 cache.










3Dmark11 shows pretty much what we expect, 6300 running away with the Physics and therefore the overall score. The slight bump in clock speed helped the 870k over the 860k, but still within margin of error. These chips do not scale well.










3Dmark Firestrike shows the same thing again, although the extra 100mhz from the 870k seems to pay off a little bit here.










Bioshock Infinite showed very little difference between the three, no surprise as this game doesn't exactly beat on the CPU.



















Dragon Age Inquistion, as I know from experience, is totally unplayable on the AMD 4-core chips. The bench runs fine, but actual gameplay is abysmal. There seemed also to be something very wrong with this game under Windows 8.1 on the 6700k system as well, it crashed several times and turned out very poor results. I didn't mean to lump all of the scores into one graph so you'll just have to look at the legend carefully.










Armored Warfare is in here because it is the game I play the most currently. I used its tutorial level and averaged three FRAPS runs to get my numbers. AMD chips in general suffer heavily, this is based on Cryengine and foliage-heavy maps will see frames about 1/3 of what you see on this chart (the map is a desert one).



















AIDA64 memory tests, take from it what you will:





































Conclusion: the 870k and likely the 880k are identical in every way to the 860k except binned for higher leakage and soldered IHS rather than pasted. The temperature delta was massive (bear in mind I was over 100mv higher on the 870k), with the same cooler and same thermal paste I was seeing an average of 22C cooler on the 870k with the biggest gap during IBT, where the 860k would sit at ~62C while the 870k was chilling at ~41C. After 1 hour of x264 encoding the 860k had 30C of margin while the 870k had 43C of margin.

Is it worth changing out the 860k for the 870/880? Probably not if you're happy with it and can OC to 4.3ghz or so. The extra headroom on the clock speed seems to do nothing in particular. If you are having temperature problems or you can't get past 4.1-4.2 as many of the 860ks can't, it might be a good upgrade. The other thing that blows my mind is just how much faster a modern intel chip is, please Zen get here fast and be good!


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> The other thing that blows my mind is just how much faster a modern intel chip is, please Zen get here fast and be good!


This. Just built a 6600K machine last week. We really need Zen to show up and shine. The community needs it.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This. Just built a 6600K machine last week. We really need Zen to show up and shine. The community needs it.


This was a fun time waster but it really brings the need for a new chip from AMD to the front. Oh well, I'm going to see if I can round up a better board and see what the 870k can do with more phases. It boots to Windows and does about 5 minutes of stressing at 4700mhz but the VRM throttle it heavily.

The real problem with the FM2+ chips seems to be the memory subsystem, even the L1 cache is ridiculously slow. I think if they had revamped the whole IMC/cache these chips would have been a lot better.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This. Just built a 6600K machine last week. We really need Zen to show up and shine. The community needs it.


That's what I meant saying I am dissapointed. AMD doesn't seem to improve anything and trying to get any closer to Intel. They are getting crushed in every class of chips and don't seem to be too worried about it.

I had a x4 860k and I sort of liked it, then changed to Intel. And changed my opinion about AMD...
Seeing what AMD has been doing I wouldn't expect any revolution from Zen. Just another, bit faster next generation chip from AMD beaten badly by ancient Haswell.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> The other thing that blows my mind is just how much faster a modern intel chip is, please Zen get here fast and be good!


Funny thing is, if someone cares that much about benchmarks (not me), intel clearly has chips that can go double single threaded performance in tests. However, in a lot of games, the difference is mediocre at best, because most games don't like to hammer on the CPU that much. Good thing I don't play MMO's like my friend who bought 8350k and curses it every day of the week.

Thanx for posting your results. This paints a good picture as to what 870k is mostly about.

I would still like to see it tested in Crossblade Ranger or equivalent, just to see where the limit is without throttling.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Funny thing is, if someone cares that much about benchmarks (not me), intel clearly has chips that can go double single threaded performance in tests. However, in a lot of games, the difference is mediocre at best, because most games don't like to hammer on the CPU that much. Good thing I don't play MMO's like my friend who bought 8350k and curses it every day of the week.
> 
> Thanx for posting your results. This paints a good picture as to what 870k is mostly about.
> 
> I would still like to see it tested in Crossblade Ranger or equivalent, just to see where the limit is without throttling.


One thing I picked up on was in my Armored Warfare test, there was a spot (not loading) that would come to a screeching halt for a second, it was very jarring. It happened the same way every single run of all three AMD CPU's but was completely absent on the intel chip. My next step is to probably get rid of the 860k and ASRock board and find me one of the "big three" FM2+ boards and see what I can get out of this one. The A88X-Pro, Gigabyte UP4 or the Ranger are basically as good as it gets so whichever one I find that is affordable I'll grab.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Funny thing is, if someone cares that much about benchmarks (not me), intel clearly has chips that can go double single threaded performance in tests. However, in a lot of games, the difference is mediocre at best, because most games don't like to hammer on the CPU that much.


Tried few games, Far Cry 4 and Crysis 3 were almost unplayable on x4 860k, disgusting experience.
i5 4570- smooth as newborn baby's bum


----------



## Jack13

Scorpion49; Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the effort you put into this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> I would still like to see it tested in Crossblade Ranger or equivalent, just to see where the limit is without throttling.


I was thinking the exact same thing. Maybe I'll wait a few weeks for the 880 to come out and try it on mine.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Scorpion49; Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the effort you put into this.
> I was thinking the exact same thing. Maybe I'll wait a few weeks for the 880 to come out and try it on mine.


No problem, it was fun to do actually. I'll definitely be testing the 870k with a higher end board and see how far it will go.


----------



## speedy22

Thank you Scorpion49 for this nice work !

Unfortunately exactly as what i expected.
For a lesser price, is it not better to open the 860k and than replaced the thermal past between the IHS ?
Similar was possible on ivybdridge


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Thank you Scorpion49 for this nice work !
> 
> Unfortunately exactly as what i expected.
> For a lesser price, is it not better to open the 860k and than replaced the thermal past between the IHS ?
> Similar was possible on ivybdridge


I don't think repasting the 860k will get the same results. Plus thats a big risk for most people who won't do something like delidding.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Funny thing is, if someone cares that much about benchmarks (not me), intel clearly has chips that can go double single threaded performance in tests. However, in a lot of games, the difference is mediocre at best, because most games don't like to hammer on the CPU that much. Good thing I don't play MMO's like my friend who bought 8350k and curses it every day of the week.


I said the same thing until I started playing modded Skyrim, GTA 5, Rome II, Arma III, Borderlands 2 among other heavily CPU intensive games on Skylake and saw the massive difference. Hopefully DX12 will keep games GPU bound as they should be.


----------



## Particle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> Seeing what AMD has been doing I wouldn't expect any revolution from Zen. Just another, bit faster next generation chip from AMD beaten badly by ancient Haswell.


Haswell is far from being "ancient".


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> 860k at 4400mhz shows nearly identical numbers to 870k at 4500mhz in everything. Very little difference.


Of course you are going to see near identical performance numbers. 4400 and 4500 is just a 2% difference.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> That's what I meant saying I am dissapointed. AMD doesn't seem to improve anything and trying to get any closer to Intel. They are getting crushed in every class of chips and don't seem to be too worried about it.
> 
> I had a x4 860k and I sort of liked it, then changed to Intel. And changed my opinion about AMD...
> Seeing what AMD has been doing I wouldn't expect any revolution from Zen. Just another, bit faster next generation chip from AMD beaten badly by ancient Haswell.


This post is nothing but nonsense from start to finish.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Of course you are going to see near identical performance numbers. 4400 and 4500 is just a 2% difference.


Oh, sorry man. Here, let me drive these down to CT so you can do it properly.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I don't think repasting the 860k will get the same results. Plus thats a big risk for most people who won't do something like delidding.


Delidding an 860K is extremely risky. Using a razor blade or utility knife is extremely tedious and you have to be extremely careful as you are working blind. There is one mm between where the adhesive ends and the capacitors are placed on the pcb. I would highly recommend against trying the vise method. The heatspreader is glued on really well and knocking it off requires a great amount of force. This flexes the pcb.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> This post is nothing but nonsense from start to finish.


what is nonsense? that Intel destroys AMD in every single chip?


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I don't think repasting the 860k will get the same results. Plus thats a big risk for most people who won't do something like delidding.


Considering the fact that the 870k is soldered and uses a newer, better stepping, I'd be inclined to agree with you. A delid/relid would help, but not by that much.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> what is nonsense? that Intel destroys AMD in every single chip?


it was total nonsense.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> it was total nonsense.











another fanboy


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> another fanboy


Not at all. I'm just real. You're not.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Not at all. I'm just real. You're not.


ok then, which amd cpu in your world beats intel's equivalent?


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> ok then, which amd cpu in your world beats intel's equivalent?


That's not how you measure CPU capability. Nobody here will disagree that Intel chips are better but we know what's truth and what's not. You're looking at this with the lens of a child and you're expecting us to play into your hands. Nobody is going to do that.

If I sat here and listed exactly which chips the 860K is better, and provide proof and explanation, you'd immediately dismiss that because you've already resigned AMD as the out-group and therefore "they" are wrong no matter what anybody says. There's literally nothing that *we* can say. We're just [insert insult here] to you.

Rather than, say, what beats Intel's equivalent, it's what beats Intel's offering in price. If I can spend 74.99 for an 860K vs a G3258 for 69.99 (practically in the same bracket) therefore AMD beats Intel's offering. The 860K has slightly more execution throughput and it's 4-cores allow it to launch any modern game. On the bottom end of the price brackets, AMD actually beats a lot of Intel CPUs b/c the alternative Intel CPU is not desirable for the price.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> That's not how you measure CPU capability. Nobody here will disagree that Intel chips are better but we know what's truth and what's not. You're looking at this with the lens of a child and you're expecting us to play into your hands. Nobody is going to do that.
> 
> If I sat here and listed exactly which chips the 860K is better, and provide proof and explanation, you'd immediately dismiss that because you've already resigned AMD as the out-group and therefore "they" are wrong no matter what anybody says. There's literally nothing that *we* can say. We're just [insert insult here] to you.


I like AMD. In fact, I prefer AMD over Intel, never really liked Intel for some reason.
However, it doesn't make AMD chips better, neither it doesn't change the fact that Intel is just more advanced, faster and better performing.
Yes, I am currently running Intel.
Not because I like to pay more for things or I like blue more than red. I've chosen Intel because it's better. It's better for what I do on my pc. I don't do unzipping files for hours everyday, neither video encoding.
I play some games like greater part of ppl on this forum, and for that Intel simply beats any AMD chip.
I wish it will change with Zen and then I can trade my i5 for AMD cpu which I prefer but it's not likely to happen.


----------



## coffeerox

You just proved my point LMAO


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> That's not how you measure CPU capability. Nobody here will disagree that Intel chips are better but we know what's truth and what's not. You're looking at this with the lens of a child and you're expecting us to play into your hands. Nobody is going to do that.
> 
> If I sat here and listed exactly which chips the 860K is better, and provide proof and explanation, you'd immediately dismiss that because you've already resigned AMD as the out-group and therefore "they" are wrong no matter what anybody says. There's literally nothing that *we* can say. We're just [insert insult here] to you.
> 
> Rather than, say, what beats Intel's equivalent, it's what beats Intel's offering in price. If I can spend 74.99 for an 860K vs a G3258 for 69.99 (practically in the same bracket) therefore AMD beats Intel's offering. The 860K has slightly more execution throughput and it's 4-cores allow it to launch any modern game. On the bottom end of the price brackets, AMD actually beats a lot of Intel CPUs b/c the alternative Intel CPU is not desirable for the price.


I owned x4 860k. Never had g3258.
Read a lot of comparisons, benchmarks, reviews. Most of them say stock pentium beats overclocked athlon in most games.
ppl say fps is not everything, that pentium stutters etc.
so athlon does. Far Cry 4 is basically not playable on it. X4 860k is very fast when doing bssic everyday stuff in windows, in games Intel's single core performance is better.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> I owned x4 860k. Never had g3258.
> Read a lot of comparisons, benchmarks, reviews. Most of them say stock pentium beats overclocked athlon in most games.
> ppl say fps is not everything, that pentium stutters etc.
> so athlon does. Far Cry 4 is basically not playable on it. X4 860k is very fast when doing bssic everyday stuff in windows, in games Intel's single core performance is better.


You act like far cry 4 is somehow that much more playable on the g3258, when it isnt. the G3258 is a dual core processor with marginally better IPC that is easily matched and out done through overclocking. The benchmarks dont lie, the 860k is the better deal all around. I thought about making that switch last year, and it wasnt worth the money. My games play great with dedicated graphics and my 860k @ 4.5ghz.


----------



## tone1492

Let's not turn this into an Intel vs AMD situation. The 860K is still great value for money, even with it's obvious limitations. Probably more now considering the lack of gains from the 870K based on the early tests. We will find out more once more ppl get the 870K and are able to bolt it on a top tier A88X board.

I had the GIGABYTE GA-F2A88X-UP4 and was able to push my chip hard with very high voltage daily. The 860K only struggled a bit in the most CPU intensive games, but I never had a game that was flat out unplayable. Speaking of my old board I hear it's not even being sold anymore. Shame because it was one of the best in the chipset.


----------



## damric

I gave my oldest son my 860K and A88X board when I upgraded to Skylake this week. For him it was a good upgrade and he thinks it's quite fast in his games. He uses it with a 768p TV and a GTX 460 1GB to play stuff like Shadow of Mordor.


----------



## coffeerox

Saying Far Cry 4 is not playable is like a challenge to me. There's literally 1% of games unplayable on an 860K and I highly doubt FC4 is unplayable. You know what, screw it, let's see how "unplayable" this game is LOL


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I gave my oldest son my 860K and A88X board when I upgraded to Skylake this week. For him it was a good upgrade and he thinks it's quite fast in his games. He uses it with a 768p TV and a GTX 460 1GB to play stuff like Shadow of Mordor.


Yes it is a good CPU and for 70 bucks I have a hard time understanding how ppl can say anything bad about it. I'll sacrifice 3-5 frames a second the Pentium might give in some CPU bound games just to have 4 physical cores and the extra flexibility that brings.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Yes it is a good CPU and for 70 bucks I have a hard time understanding how ppl can say anything bad about it. I'll sacrifice 3-5 frames a second the Pentium might give in some CPU bound games just to have 4 physical cores and the extra flexibility that brings.


Exactly. For $80, I definitely got much more value from that processor than I did from buying new CPUs in previous years.

Example: My Phenom II 955 was about $200 when it was new, and my 1090T was nearly $300, and those were considered good bang for the buck at the time







Then there are those poor suckers that dropped like $800 on the FX-9590 when they first arrived...

My Pentium 3258 is meh...It pales in performance value comparison to my i3-6100 (4.5GHz so far). The last chip that was this much of a bargain was my Phenom II 550 which unlocked to a quad for $80 new.

The 860K is definitely the best of the low end right now. Sometimes the other Kaveri unlocked A8 APUs are on sale at similar price though and those are also gems.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> Read a lot of comparisons, benchmarks, reviews. Most of them say stock pentium beats overclocked athlon in most games.
> ppl say fps is not everything, *that pentium stutters etc.*


it does, and it seems to get worse with newer games
Quote:


> so athlon does. Far Cry 4 is basically not playable on it.


looks playable to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqsep8eZzqw and this is on Ultra.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Let's not turn this into an Intel vs AMD situation...


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> I owned x4 860k. Never had g3258.
> 
> Far Cry 4 is basically not playable on it..


BS.
I have an 860k, clocked at 4100Mhz, with R7 260X and FC4 never reaches 100% CPU usage. It is only held back by the GPU, who even on ultra manages to give out smooth 30-40 fps with no stutters.
I don't usually play on ultra, but did it just to prove you wrong.

CPU sometimes goes into 80% usage on one core, but never on all 4 cores (mainly in villages). The game looks like its nicely optimized for 4 threads.

My monitor cant handle resolution above 1600x900 though, but I can't imagine 860k going 30% more on all cores switching to 1080p.

Please tell us more how FC4 stutters on 860k, I really want to hear it.

Edit: After some more stress-playing, I've found that the CPU goes over 70% in some situations. I'm just being precise with my information for people reading this, I already know it never stuttered on me in this game, ever.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Please tell us more how FC4 stutters on 860k, I really want to hear it.


I never really bothered with FC4 even though I have it, but FC3 ran like a turd on even the highest end machines I tried it on. Most I did in FC4 was do the "15 minute ending" lol


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Armored Warfare is in here because it is the game I play the most currently. I used its tutorial level and averaged three FRAPS runs to get my numbers. AMD chips in general suffer heavily, this is based on Cryengine and foliage-heavy maps will see frames about 1/3 of what you see on this chart (the map is a desert one).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other thing that blows my mind is just how much faster a modern intel chip is, please Zen get here fast and be good!


Those AW benchmarks were kind of strange. How can the 860/870 be better than an FX-6300 at 1440p, and then lose decisively to it at 1080? The game can't be scaling past four cores. Only thing I can figure is that it's only using 2-4 cores, and the L3 helps the game's performance, but when you get to 1440p, the Steamroller IPC trumps the L3. Either that or Cryengine is just completely sucky code, which is certainly possible.

I know you weren't trying to portray it that way, but comparing an i7-6700K to a Godavari quad in gaming benchmarks is basically a "my daddy can whip your little brother" scenario. One of them is $380 and the other one is $85, the best currently available mainstream CPU against the cheapest useful CPU for any task beyond going on Facebook and watching YouTube videos. It would have blown my mind if the Skylake didn't win all of the benchmarks easily.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Those AW benchmarks were kind of strange. How can the 860/870 be better than an FX-6300 at 1440p, and then lose decisively to it at 1080? The game can't be scaling past four cores. Only thing I can figure is that it's only using 2-4 cores, and the L3 helps the game's performance, but when you get to 1440p, the Steamroller IPC trumps the L3. Either that or Cryengine is just completely sucky code, which is certainly possible.
> 
> I know you weren't trying to portray it that way, but comparing an i7-6700K to a Godavari quad in gaming benchmarks is basically a "my daddy can whip your little brother" scenario. One of them is $380 and the other one is $85, the best currently available mainstream CPU against the cheapest useful CPU for any task beyond going on Facebook and watching YouTube videos. It would have blown my mind if the Skylake didn't win all of the benchmarks easily.


For the AW stuff, they were very close. Remember it was an average of FRAPS runs, and one of the issues with that game is using the sniper mode sends the framerate through the roof. So if I let it be in sniper mode for 2 seconds more on one run or the other it will skew the results (from say 65 average you'll be up to 140 or something ridiculous). I tried to be as consistent as I could, just take that one as a "ballpark" and not an exact figure. To be honest, in the actual game none of the AMD chips are good until you turn the settings down to medium or lower (the training map is small and you only see one enemy at a time, but benchmarking the real game is like trying to bench BF4 multiplayer with no ability to select maps). The very foliage intensive maps will see drops into the single digits. There is one map in particular that still drops into the teens on the 6700k so they have some optimizing passes left to do as they update it.

As far as Skylake being in there, I did it just because I have the computers next to each other already. I didn't bother to comment on it it was just there as an extra reference. Of course it is crazy to compare a $2500 top of the line intel rig to a $400 budget FM2+, I just wanted to give people another point of reference instead of just the FX chip. If I had an i3 or Pentium to use I would have put that instead. It was not meant as a "haha look at the intel beating up AMD" thing. However, I found it interesting just how far ahead it was in some cases. I was not expecting such a big gap, although I'm not sure why. Logically I know what 50% more IPC and all that talk means but doing it for myself one after the other was different.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> For the AW stuff, they were very close. Remember it was an average of FRAPS runs, and one of the issues with that game is using the sniper mode sends the framerate through the roof. So if I let it be in sniper mode for 2 seconds more on one run or the other it will skew the results (from say 65 average you'll be up to 140 or something ridiculous). I tried to be as consistent as I could, just take that one as a "ballpark" and not an exact figure. To be honest, in the actual game none of the AMD chips are good until you turn the settings down to medium or lower (the training map is small and you only see one enemy at a time, but benchmarking the real game is like trying to bench BF4 multiplayer with no ability to select maps). The very foliage intensive maps will see drops into the single digits. There is one map in particular that still drops into the teens on the 6700k so they have some optimizing passes left to do as they update it.
> 
> As far as Skylake being in there, I did it just because I have the computers next to each other already. I didn't bother to comment on it it was just there as an extra reference. Of course it is crazy to compare a $2500 top of the line intel rig to a $400 budget FM2+, I just wanted to give people another point of reference instead of just the FX chip. If I had an i3 or Pentium to use I would have put that instead. It was not meant as a "haha look at the intel beating up AMD" thing. However, I found it interesting just how far ahead it was in some cases. I was not expecting such a big gap, although I'm not sure why. Logically I know what 50% more IPC and all that talk means but doing it for myself one after the other was different.


I think comparing to Intel's top cpu won't hurt anyone. There's huge gap between athlon and skylake, and that's what I meant saying that Intel destroys AMD in every way. Get AMD's top chip(which is fx 9590 I believe) and there will be still huge gap between skylake and that.
Anyway, athlon is the cheapest option and we should really compare it to g3258, because this is what ppl usually consider when building budget rig.
Like I mentioned before, I had x4 860k and I wasn't impressed at all when gaming, I wonder how pentium would perform. This is actually what I consider now for my second budget build, get x4 860k on some cheap and poor board or get less cores but stronger g3258 on cheap board(which is still much better than fm2+).


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> There's huge gap between athlon and skylake, and that's what I meant saying that Intel destroys AMD in every way.


No, you went full fanboy mode without providing evidence and now you're piggy backing onto experienced members trying to sound smart.
Quote:


> Get AMD's top chip(which is fx 9590 I believe) and there will be still huge gap between skylake and that.


Not many Skylake benches have been done yet, but the 8350 has been matching the i5-2500K and close to Haswell performance. Problem is, you're just saying "pick top Intel chip, it blows away everything" and you have no evidence. Not even this supports your belief:

Quote:


> Like I mentioned before, I had x4 860k and I wasn't impressed at all when gaming, I wonder how pentium would perform. This is actually what I consider now for my second budget build, get x4 860k on some cheap and poor board or get less cores but stronger g3258 on cheap board(which is still much better than fm2+).


You weren't impressed because you had a trash GPU. You can't run a trash GPU and expect top of the line performance. I guarantee you the 860K is superior to the G3258 and is by no means weaker than it.

Far Cry 4 video coming later. (you got BTFO before I could post it btw)


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> No, you went full fanboy mode without providing evidence and now you're piggy backing onto experienced members trying to sound smart.
> Not many Skylake benches have been done yet, but the 8350 has been matching the i5-2500K and close to Haswell performance. Problem is, you're just saying "pick top Intel chip, it blows away everything" and you have no evidence. Not even this supports your belief:
> 
> You weren't impressed because you had a trash GPU. You can't run a trash GPU and expect top of the line performance. I guarantee you the 860K is superior to the G3258 and is by no means weaker than it.
> 
> Far Cry 4 video coming later. (you got BTFO before I could post it btw)


gpu wasn't great, it was to match x4 860k, especially pricewise. you don't buy £60 cpu to run it with £500 980ti. I've run two r9 270x 4gb crossfired, still so much overkill for this poor little cpu.

This benchmark you've posted- ok. These are the actual numbers and you can't really argue with it. The only thing is all cpus were at stock speed. you have 3.5 Ghz old Haswell performing almost identical(couple of less fps) to the newest FX which is 4.7 GHz. Overclock that Haswell chip to 4.5 and then run same benchamrks. same with skylake and other intel chips.
On the other hand, AMD is cheaper so you can't really expect it to beat Intel which always been more expensive.
I am just saying, Intel is stronger and better than AMD(but you have to pay more for it).
Just like with cars mate, different leagues with different prices.


----------



## tone1492

So how long we gonna beat the blood and guts out of this dead horse?


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> I am just saying, Intel is stronger and better than AMD(but you have to pay more for it).
> Just like with cars mate, different leagues with different prices.


Really? I don't think ANYONE here has ever thought of that. We've all been wondering why, oh why can't this cpu have the same performance as the ones that cost 3, 4 or 5 times as much. Wow, I guess I have egg on my face now. How embarrassing that it hadn't occurred to me.


----------



## speedy22

G3258 isn't a good choice because many games need now hyper threading
yes this cpu is faster but try a game who need hyper threading you'll see a big stuterring


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> G3258 isn't a good choice because many games need now hyper threading
> yes this cpu is faster but try a game who need hyper threading you'll see a big stuterring


Honestly I saw a lot of stuttering with the i3-6100 as well. I was very surprised at how much it lacked smoothness compared to the 6600k.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> So how long we gonna beat the blood and guts out of this dead horse?


From the looks of things, at least a few more pages.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> So how long we gonna beat the blood and guts out of this dead horse?


ask muzammil84 the all knowing


----------



## coffeerox

Okay, so I had a PITA recording this damn game. The major problem is that it's a single/dual thread graphics engine and that murders framerates on VCE. VCE records from GPU like Shadowplay but retains the single thread or multithread characteristic. On good multithreaded engines, recording does barely anything to FPS. On a single threaded engine (like most DX9 games or this game) it'll flood one core and that will drive down FPS.

I found out how to avoid the penalty on a single threaded engine like this. I switched to CPU encoding at 720P/30FPS using OBS but I can't record more than 30FPS. The video file comes out extremely unstable and unusable. I'm not sure why that is. Another thing is that because I have to use OBS, none of the frame counters work on it.

Anyways, the video is locked 30FPS on 1080P with High preset. There's one big stutter you'll see in the video that doesn't actually happen in the game (it's the encoder dropping frames) Here are the numbers for the same exact run without recording:

Frames: 4527
Time: 83641
Min: 35
Max: 62
Average: 54.124




Without recording, this game runs very well, it's just a little bit harder for us to prove it b/c of crappy software. 1/2 refresh rate option allows me to run the game exactly like consoles, which is what I built the machine for. So I'm pretty happy with the performance.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Honestly I saw a lot of stuttering with the i3-6100 as well. I was very surprised at how much it lacked smoothness compared to the 6600k.


Oh it lacks smoothness at times even compared to the 860K, as I have noticed in a couple 3D benches.

I just ran the FFHS bench at same clocks and settings on my i3 as I did with my 860K. Yes I'm mostly GPU bound, but not always GPU bound so in theory I should have at least picked up a few hundred more points.





I might try again with HT turned off and see if that does much higher or lower.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Oh it lacks smoothness at times even compared to the 860K, as I have noticed in a couple 3D benches.
> 
> I just ran the FFHS bench at same clocks and settings on my i3 as I did with my 860K. Yes I'm mostly GPU bound, but not always GPU bound so in theory I should have at least picked up a few hundred more points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might try again with HT turned off and see if that does much higher or lower.


That game must really like GCN GPU's over VLIW ones. A 6970 is about equivalent to a 7850, but when I ran it last September at the same settings you did with the 860K at 4.5, my score was 4105. It was clearly the GPU holding me back, because I turned the 860K back to 3.3 GHz and ran it again, and got 4111.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Honestly I saw a lot of stuttering with the i3-6100 as well. I was very surprised at how much it lacked smoothness compared to the 6600k.


I think real cores are are always preferable over virtual ones these days, even though Intel has gotten quite good with their HT implementation. For serious gaming, the quad i5 is pretty much a minimum requirement these days. Unless Zen is really as good as AMD is claiming it is. Then people will have a choice.


----------



## Jkmetal

Just created an account to say I've had this processor for around a year, running at stock speeds on a micro atx gigabyte motherboard.

It was a super cheap upgrade on an old core 2 quad system and I'm been very satisfied with this chip. Sure its dirt cheap but it handles Fallout 4, The Witcher 3. I even play a bit of planetside two a couple times a month and I've seen a big jump from the old core 2 quad. I didn't have any issues with far cry 3 or blood dragon.

I hope amd releases another cheap chip like this a couple years down the line using the zen architecture. Intel's quad core cpus are just too expensive for us budget guys.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jkmetal*
> 
> Just created an account to say I've had this processor for around a year, running at stock speeds on a micro atx gigabyte motherboard.
> 
> It was a super cheap upgrade on an old core 2 quad system and I'm been very satisfied with this chip. Sure its dirt cheap but it handles Fallout 4, The Witcher 3. I even play a bit of planetside two a couple times a month and I've seen a big jump from the old core 2 quad. I didn't have any issues with far cry 3 or blood dragon.
> 
> I hope amd releases another cheap chip like this a couple years down the line using the zen architecture. Intel's quad core cpus are just too expensive for us budget guys.


Which Core2Quad did you have ?

Because a Core2Quad Q9300-Q9650-X5460 perform better as the 860k when they are overclocked and for a xeon it cost only 25$.....

my 860k : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11162159 5115 Physics Score
VS
Core2Quad Xeon : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2144936 7572 Physics Score


----------



## Rabit

AOD is good tool for to bump Mhz before run CPU-Z validation


----------



## coffeerox

Just set your power option to High Performance.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> AOD is good tool for to bump Mhz before run CPU-Z validation


You got one of the better CPUs I see. That is a nice OC! If you have the cooling I bet you could hit 4.7GHz at around 1.52v.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> You got one of the better CPUs I see. That is a nice OC! If you have the cooling I bet you could hit 4.7GHz at around 1.52v.


My 860k will validate at like 4.8gz using AOD to bump the multi up in windows and get a CPU-Z validation, doesn't mean it will run there lol


----------



## damric

If you just want a good validation, set your regular CPU multi kind of low and raise the Turbo multi to hell. I did that with my 760K


----------



## speedy22




----------



## Jkmetal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Which Core2Quad did you have ?
> 
> Because a Core2Quad Q9300-Q9650-X5460 perform better as the 860k when they are overclocked and for a xeon it cost only 25$.....
> 
> my 860k : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11162159 5115 Physics Score
> VS
> Core2Quad Xeon : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2144936 7572 Physics Score


Core 2 Quad 9550. I don't overclock anything.

Its nice to have sata III and usb 3.0 as well.

The core 2 quad was good for its time but it's feature set is very outdated.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jkmetal*
> 
> Core 2 Quad 9550. I don't overclock anything.
> 
> Its nice to have sata III and usb 3.0 as well.
> 
> The core 2 quad was good for its time but it's feature set is very outdated.


Definitely. Some of the FM2+ boards have top notch features like M.2 and ALC 1150 with onboard amplifier. I love my A88X-G45 Gaming, it even has dragon-shaped heatsinks


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jkmetal*
> 
> Core 2 Quad 9550. I don't overclock anything.
> 
> Its nice to have sata III and usb 3.0 as well.
> 
> The core 2 quad was good for its time but it's feature set is very outdated.


lol sata 3 give nothing on a normal hdd
for the ssd, it is possible to get a version in pcie
and usb 3.0 can be used with a controller card so i don't think that an old lga 1366 or a 775 is outdated^^


----------



## Rabit

on 4,6 I manage do http://hwbot.org/submission/3159685_deathrabit_superpi___1m_athlon_x4_860k_15sec_981ms
I daily run this CPU at 4,4Ghz my mobo VRM throat at 4,5Ghz 1,485V *( in warmer days now with winter air can pass some test) but I not intend pay 2x more for better mobo to get 100mhz more








Anyway my CPU was full stable only at 4,5Ghz my friend tested it on Asus Crossblade
Anyway I today enter in to SSD era








http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/890804


----------



## Jkmetal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> lol sata 3 give nothing on a normal hdd
> for the ssd, it is possible to get a version in pcie
> and usb 3.0 can be used with a controller card so i don't think that an old lga 1366 or a 775 is outdated^^


Lol? Had an ssd already before the upgrade, Sata III made a difference. No need for a PCI-E SSD when SATA III ports are present.

Its nice to have a motherboard which supports usb 3 natively, saves space and again, keeps an expansion slot open.

LGA 1366 and 775 are absolutely outdated, no matter what you add or whatever work-arounds you use to keep it on life support.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> lol sata 3 give nothing on a normal hdd
> for the ssd, it is possible to get a version in pcie
> and usb 3.0 can be used with a controller card so i don't think that an old lga 1366 or a 775 is outdated^^


What's a hdd? Is that like a cassette tape?


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jkmetal*
> 
> Lol? Had an ssd already before the upgrade, Sata III made a difference. No need for a PCI-E SSD when SATA III ports are present.
> 
> Its nice to have a motherboard which supports usb 3 natively, saves space and again, keeps an expansion slot open.
> 
> LGA 1366 and 775 are absolutely outdated, no matter what you add or whatever work-arounds you use to keep it on life support.


The sata III performance can be visuable only in benchmark by using a ssd
In realife there is no difference in app or game VS Sata II^^


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> So how long we gonna beat the blood and guts out of this dead horse?


Is someone twisting your arm to read the thread?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Really? I don't think ANYONE here has ever thought of that. We've all been wondering why, oh why can't this cpu have the same performance as the ones that cost 3, 4 or 5 times as much. Wow, I guess I have egg on my face now. How embarrassing that it hadn't occurred to me.


I second that. What did we do all this time till this guy arrived? He enlightened us in 40 posts.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> The sata III performance can be visuable only in benchmark by using a ssd
> In realife there is no difference in app or game VS Sata II^^


Keep telling yourself that and maybe it will come true.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Keep telling yourself that and maybe it will come true.


sure


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> sure


what exactly is your purpose in this thread?


----------



## mcspawnagain

some times its easyer to lie to your self lol


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> what exactly is your purpose in this thread?


My purpose ? To wait for some result who seems not coming


----------



## Spawne32

awww im #11 now on HWBOT lol


----------



## Spawne32

im itchin to mess with an excavator core so i ordered an 845, 65 bucks shipped from provantage, cheap enough that im more then willing to do what it takes to try to oc it on my A88XM lol might be able to get 100 or 200mhz out of it the old fashioned way without the ability of changing the multi, the superpi scores i saw out of it bone stock blew the 860k out of the water even at 5ghz.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> My purpose ? To wait for some result who seems not coming


This thread has been here since 2014, if you haven't seen the results you're "expecting" yet you're not going to.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> im itchin to mess with an excavator core so i ordered an 845, 65 bucks shipped from provantage, cheap enough that im more then willing to do what it takes to try to oc it on my A88XM lol might be able to get 100 or 200mhz out of it the old fashioned way without the ability of changing the multi, the superpi scores i saw out of it bone stock blew the 860k out of the water even at 5ghz.


That is where I bought mine too. I wasn't real happy with them to be honest. The cheap shipping is FedEX, and they placed some restrictions so that it had to be delivered to my shipping address, which was my home address. What I'm getting at is that there was no possiblity of having it held at a FedEx location near me. Normally I could go online and have things held, but not this time. I'm at work during the day, so there was no way I was going to get the shipment.
I had to call Provantage and ask them to change this, and of course it was after I found all all this out, which was after the first delivery attempt. Provantage had me on hold for about half an hour, then said it was fixed, but still FedEx made a second attempt to my home address. Now I'm down to one last attempt, so more phone calls, and finally it was held at a hub, not a very local place to me, but I was desperate. Then I get the package and all they did was put the cpu box in a very lightly padded envelope type thing. The box was of course pretty banged up. I'm faily OCD about keeping boxes, and keeping them looking nice, so this really was upsetting, but if I complain and return it, then I'm waiting a week plus to get a new one, and it would be the same mess over again, so I just kept it. The cpu and heatsink are fine, which I guess is the main thing. I won't be ordering from them again though.


----------



## Scorpion49

Newegg has the 845 now too, btw.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> That is where I bought mine too. I wasn't real happy with them to be honest. The cheap shipping is FedEX, and they placed some restrictions so that it had to be delivered to my shipping address, which was my home address. What I'm getting at is that there was no possiblity of having it held at a FedEx location near me. Normally I could go online and have things held, but not this time. I'm at work during the day, so there was no way I was going to get the shipment.
> I had to call Provantage and ask them to change this, and of course it was after I found all all this out, which was after the first delivery attempt. Provantage had me on hold for about half an hour, then said it was fixed, but still FedEx made a second attempt to my home address. Now I'm down to one last attempt, so more phone calls, and finally it was held at a hub, not a very local place to me, but I was desperate. Then I get the package and all they did was put the cpu box in a very lightly padded envelope type thing. The box was of course pretty banged up. I'm faily OCD about keeping boxes, and keeping them looking nice, so this really was upsetting, but if I complain and return it, then I'm waiting a week plus to get a new one, and it would be the same mess over again, so I just kept it. The cpu and heatsink are fine, which I guess is the main thing. I won't be ordering from them again though.


You get what you pay for with a lot of these bulk shippers. They are basically direct from warehouse order forms or drop shippers, no real customer service, no real options. Nice thing about provantage for me was, they have a NJ warehouse so it takes 1 day to get things to my door, and only 6 dollars shipping. Where as newegg it would have been about 15 dollars shipping and tax and taken 3 days even if it did ship from the NJ warehouse newegg has.


----------



## Scorpion49

So I checked out the "red fan" quiet cooler that came with the 870k, it actually has a copper slug in it like the older intel heatsinks did.


----------



## coffeerox

Is the red cooler any good? I remember I had installed the stock 860 cooler and that thing was terrible. Couldn't keep the CPU cool for anything and being in Arizona heat doesn't help.


----------



## gaster

It is a nice heatsink, and the same one AMD used for some FX-4100 and FX-6100 cpus, but some of those had different fans. I already had one from a previous computer and really like it.
It does work better than the older and smaller aluminum only heatsinks. It will not be as good as a Hyper 212 or anything like that.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Is the red cooler any good? I remember I had installed the stock 860 cooler and that thing was terrible. Couldn't keep the CPU cool for anything and being in Arizona heat doesn't help.


I'll let you know in a bit, its on the 870k right now but at stock speeds. I'm installing Windows 7 currently but I'm going to see if I can hit 4400 or so on this heatsink. I believe it will be possible, it isn't even ramping up the fan under load right now. The copper core and much bigger fin area make it a lot better out of the box option than those all aluminum tiny things the 860k ships with.


----------



## Jack13

It looks as though I will be waiting for the 880. I'm too busy to mess with anything right now anyway.
The timing will work out IF it actually ships on the projected date. Im in the middle of a big remodel project that should be done the first week in April and then I'll be giving myself a week or so off to rest.
My tests wont be as comprehensive as im really not a gamer and dont have any games that anybody will want to see results from, but I'll give basic results.


----------



## Rabit

About Cooler grab a solid one from 939 era I using this old boy http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cpu-cooler/mugen-cpu-cooler.html I buy him from second hand for around 15$


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> About Cooler grab a solid one from 939 era I using this old boy http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cpu-cooler/mugen-cpu-cooler.html I buy him from second hand for around 15$


I have about a dozen coolers in my closet up to and including parts for a full 360mm loop, the point is I want to test this one in particular not any others.


----------



## Spawne32

Any particular benchmarks anyone wants to see with my 860K @ 4.5ghz vs the 845?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Any particular benchmarks anyone wants to see with my 860K @ 4.5ghz vs the 845?


We know it beat Kaveri in synthetic benches, I would like to see some game stuff.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Any particular benchmarks anyone wants to see with my 860K @ 4.5ghz vs the 845?


I would really like to see Witcher 3 and GTA 5 benches. Like Scorpion49 said, we already know 845 is winer in synthetic benches, it would be interesting to bench those 2 CPU intensive games.


----------



## Spawne32

I have BF4 and Diablo 3 on this computer lol


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Any particular benchmarks anyone wants to see with my 860K @ 4.5ghz vs the 845?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> We know it beat Kaveri in synthetic benches, I would like to see some game stuff.


I'll second this. Maybe some mix of games...ie..mmo types that are more single thread orientated using older api's (dx9) and some newer muti-core oriented ones as well (dx11+)


----------



## Spawne32

could test it on GW2, thats pretty CPU intensive


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> could test it on GW2, thats pretty CPU intensive


That would be utterly fantastic as that's precisely the game I'm interested in one or the other for.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> could test it on GW2, thats pretty CPU intensive


That'd be good!


----------



## Spawne32

excellent, any good FPS recording software out there or am i gonna be writing down my own averages, havent done this in quite a while


----------



## Scorpion49

You can use free version of FRAPS to get 60 second logs, and there is a thing called FRAFS viewer that will display the .CSV files in a nice chart for you.


----------



## drmrlordx

If you have an AMD video card, you can use Gaming Evolved/plays.tv to do in-game recording

If you have an Nvidia card, you can use Shadowplay


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Any particular benchmarks anyone wants to see with my 860K @ 4.5ghz vs the 845?


Borderlands 2 and modded Skyrim if you have them. Notoriously CPU intensive and the 860K struggles quite a bit in some areas. (Dips in the 40s and 30s with a GTX 960 4GB). I would love to see if the 845 performs better. I let my friend hold my A88X stuff to motivate him to buy it. I'm really looking for an excuse to keep the stuff really.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> what is nonsense? that Intel destroys AMD in every single chip?


Read the rest of your post. It sounds like the nonsensical rantings of a teenager.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Read the rest of your post. It sounds like the nonsensical rantings of a teenager.


wow...it must be bugging you big time, bet you can't sleep at night.
Stick to your wonderful AMD and keep thinking you've got a powerful chip.
At least AMD should be proud of having die hard fans like you.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> wow...it must be bugging you big time, bet you can't sleep at night.
> Stick to your wonderful AMD and keep thinking you've got a powerful chip.
> At least AMD should be proud of having die hard fans like you.


He may be a fan, but at least he isn't a liar that came to 860k owners thread and started spewing garbage that x - game is unplayable on this chip, when all it takes is someone who REALLY owns the chip (unlike you claimed you did) to test it and prove you wrong (which we did).

Your type is all over the comments on YT and tech sites, the type starting the comment by saying: "I love AMD" or "I had this chip" just to give people false confidence and end your comments with irrational rant about how AMD sucks/has inferior chips (completely ignoring price/performance ratio) and why Intel is ruler of all things.

You contribute nothing to this thread and your rant only derails the topic, so do us all a favor and take your trolling somewhere else.


----------



## Jack13

What VordaVor said.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> He may be a fan, but at least he isn't a liar that came to 860k owners thread and started spewing garbage that x - game is unplayable on this chip, when all it takes is someone who REALLY owns the chip (unlike you claimed you did) to test it and prove you wrong (which we did).
> 
> Your type is all over the comments on YT and tech sites, the type starting the comment by saying: "I love AMD" or "I had this chip" just to give people false confidence and end your comments with irrational rant about how AMD sucks/has inferior chips (completely ignoring price/performance ratio) and why Intel is ruler of all things.
> 
> You contribute nothing to this thread and your rant only derails the topic, so do us all a favor and take your trolling somewhere else.


Yes, I owned that cpu. It was just ok for some games etc. it can run some games I mentioned. it just the matter how it runs them. for some ppl 30-40 fps is awesome and they don't need more.
Others invest in the strongest i7 and squeeze them like a lemon coz they need more power. It all depends on your needs and what league you play in. Different prices obviously.
For a cheapest configuration, yes, x4 860k is a good grab, I just said that I wasn't very impressed. Probably expected more( too much), that's why paid much more to get some i5 which is hundreds times better than Athlon.
Intel has more powerful, more advanced chips, no matter what you or me say or like.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> Intel has more powerful, more advanced chips, no matter what you or me say or like.


Once again, you are missing the point of this thread. It isn't about AMD vs. Intel. It's about the 860K (and has evolved to include it's successors). If you want to compare its numbers to an Intel chip just for some perspective, that's fine. But your blustering is adding nothing of value. It's like someone who owns a Ferrari going onto a Mustang thread and stating that he once owned a Mustang but his Ferrari is better in every aspect.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Once again, you are missing the point of this thread. It isn't about AMD vs. Intel. It's about the 860K (and has evolved to include it's successors). If you want to compare its numbers to an Intel chip just for some perspective, that's fine. But your blustering is adding nothing of value. It's like someone who owns a Ferrari going onto a Mustang thread and stating that he once owned a Mustang but his Ferrari is better in every aspect.


yes you're correct, it's x4 860k chip. but because it's in the same price range as g3258, comparing them two is very popular and common.
Some guy did test with x4 860k and 870k and turned out that there's no difference at all. Then I said it's dissapointing to me, and I don't understand selling the same chip just slighty OCed when x4 860k is unlocked anyway. Also said that AMD doing such things never gonna catch up with Intel. Then some very sensitive ppl started saying that Intel is not better etc.
It is, maybe not for £60 but overall it is. But it wasn't my point. I was expecting x4 870k being different, improved chip. not slightly overclocked.
thank you


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> that's why paid much more to get some i5 which is hundreds times better than Athlon.
> Intel has more powerful, more advanced chips, no matter what you or me say or like.


we get your kind in this subforum daily. You get bored, see the AMD subforum, feel like trolling people who are using chips you deem inferior, and mostly just stick your foot in your mouth trying to sound like you know anything.
thanks for stopping by


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> trying to sound like you know anything.


man, really??...
7850k :O


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> yes you're correct, it's x4 860k chip. but because it's in the same price range as g3258, comparing them two is very popular and common.
> Some guy did test with x4 860k and 870k and turned out that there's no difference at all. Then I said it's dissapointing to me, and I don't understand selling the same chip just slighty OCed when x4 860k is unlocked anyway. Also said that AMD doing such things never gonna catch up with Intel. Then some very sensitive ppl started saying that Intel is not better etc.
> It is, maybe not for £60 but overall it is. But it wasn't my point. I was expecting x4 870k being different, improved chip. not slightly overclocked.
> thank you


I can live with that answer.








The comparison between the 860 an 870 is in line with what this thread is about...information.
I doubt if AMD put the 870 out with high hopes of 860 owners doing an upgrade. If you were buying a FM2+ cpu for the first time, would you go with an older one or the newest even knowing there isn't much of a difference?
As far as AMD releasing this without any major gains, why should they? They have a major change coming right around the corner. Maybe it'll live up to the hype, maybe not. We'll have to wait and see. If they just sat on their hands and offered nothing new until ZEN, people would whine about their stagnation. So they release something "new" to fill the gap and they are blasted for that. They can't win the perception battle.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that there seems to be a thermal improvement being a soldered lid design, but TBH, I never had a heat issue with my 860. It should help with those who will run a stock cooler.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I can live with that answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The comparison between the 860 an 870 is in line with what this thread is about...information.
> I doubt if AMD put the 870 out with high hopes of 860 owners doing an upgrade. If you were buying a FM2+ cpu for the first time, would you go with an older one or the newest even knowing there isn't much of a difference?
> As far as AMD releasing this without any major gains, why should they? They have a major change coming right around the corner. Maybe it'll live up to the hype, maybe not. We'll have to wait and see. If they just sat on their hands and offered nothing new until ZEN, people would whine about their stagnation. So they release something "new" to fill the gap and they are blasted for that. They can't win the perception battle.
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to mention that there seems to be a thermal improvement being a soldered lid design, but TBH, I never had a heat issue with my 860. It should help with those who will run a stock cooler.


Well, you can't please everyone, can you?








the cheapest 860k I've found was £52 while 870k £72. Seems like quite a difference if there's no performance gain whatsoever. But it was MY opinion only, in public forum, in the thread about Athlon x4 860k. I didn't know it's a "fan only" thread. Sorry for that.

My x4 860k was getting quite hot @ 4.4 Ghz(Xigmatek Loki II cooler) so heat dissipation improvement is definitely a good idea. Not for £20 more thou.
Picked up used x4 860k for £33 yesterday for my home cinema rig







(just the info for everyone accusing me for being an Intel fanboy)


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> the cheapest 860k I've found was £52 while 870k £72.


Here in the US, the 870 is selling for $3- $5 more than what the 860 was going for before the 870 release and about the same as the 860 when it was first released. Right now, the 860 is $12 cheaper but some places I've checked are back ordered or just out of stock on the 860's. That's reasonable to me since they weren't manufacturing 860's on purpose (or so I've read). That makes the 870 viable, though I scratch my head wondering why it took so long to get to market here only to have an 880 right on its heels.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Here in the US, the 870 is selling for $3- $5 more than what the 860 was going for before the 870 release and about the same as the 860 when it was first released. Right now, the 860 is $12 cheaper but some places I've checked are back ordered or just out of stock on the 860's. That's reasonable to me since they weren't manufacturing 860's on purpose (or so I've read). That makes the 870 viable, though I scratch my head wondering why it took so long to get to market here only to have an 880 right on its heels.


Oh, that makes it a completely different story. 870k is obvious choice then, if you live in US.
Other than that 860k and Hyper 212 evo for that £20








I wonder what kind of tweaks they'll do to 880k


----------



## Jack13

I plan on finding out in a couple weeks. It's release date has been bumped to 3-28 now. Do I *need* an upgrade? No. But it'll curb my appetite while waiting for Zen. Kinda like a snack between lunch and dinner.


----------



## VordaVor

Isn't 880k going to be like 870k but with higher frequency ?


----------



## Himo5

The 880K/4.2Turbo strikes me as an oddball - 860K is a 7850K/4.0Turbo, 870K is a 7870K/4.1Turbo, but the next APU in the series, the 7890K is a 4.3Turbo.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> and I don't understand selling the same chip just slighty OCed when x4 860k is unlocked anyway.


1). Intel does this all the time. So does AMD. What do you think is the difference between the FX-8300, 8310, 8320, 8350, and 8370? Binning, mostly, now that AMD is selling post wk29 2014 chips in nearly every FX SKU.

2). The 870 is actually an entirely new stepping, with different voltage scaling characteristics. It's also soldered. It should hit the 4.7 GHz Kaveri wall more reliably than the 860k. There are a lot of bum 860ks out there that won't realistically go past 4.3 GHz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Isn't 880k going to be like 870k but with higher frequency ?


Yes, it's a GV-A1 chip with solder. So it's just a higher bin.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> wow...it must be bugging you big time, bet you can't sleep at night.
> Stick to your wonderful AMD and keep thinking you've got a powerful chip.
> At least AMD should be proud of having die hard fans like you.


You just proved my point about being a teenager. Thanks.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> man, really??...
> 7850k :O


does this mean something, or are you just padding your post count now?
here: http://wccftech.com/ the comments section is full of people you can relate to


----------



## chrisjames61

Double post.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> yes you're correct, it's x4 860k chip. but because it's in the same price range as g3258, comparing them two is very popular and common.
> Some guy did test with x4 860k and 870k and turned out that there's no difference at all. Then I said it's dissapointing to me, and I don't understand selling the same chip just slighty OCed when x4 860k is unlocked anyway. Also said that AMD doing such things never gonna catch up with Intel. Then some very sensitive ppl started saying that Intel is not better etc.
> It is, maybe not for £60 but overall it is. But it wasn't my point. I was expecting x4 870k being different, improved chip. not slightly overclocked.
> thank you


The 870K is a speed bump. That is it. It is the same arch as the 860K. If you don't understand why it was released than you don't understand some basic things about cpu's. They are binned as to their characteristics. Have you ever noticed all the different model Piledriver cpu's? The process also gets refined as time goes along. Things "improve". Is that so hard to understand? What did you think was going to be "different" about it? The Athlon 845 is "different". ZEN will be much different.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> Oh, that makes it a completely different story. 870k is obvious choice then, if you live in US.
> Other than that 860k and Hyper 212 evo for that £20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what kind of tweaks they'll do to 880k


There are no "tweaks". It is a A10-7870K with a fused igpu. A Godavari cpu that has been available for about a year.


----------



## bamaredwingsfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 1). Intel does this all the time. So does AMD. What do you think is the difference between the FX-8300, 8310, 8320, 8350, and 8370? Binning, mostly, now that AMD is selling post wk29 2014 chips in nearly every FX SKU.
> 
> 2). The 870 is actually an entirely new stepping, with different voltage scaling characteristics. It's also soldered. It should hit the 4.7 GHz Kaveri wall more reliably than the 860k. There are a lot of bum 860ks out there that won't realistically go past 4.3 GHz.
> Yes, it's a GV-A1 chip with solder. So it's just a higher bin.


Do you think we might get a 890k before all is said and done?


----------



## Spawne32

I think with zen slated to release earlier then anticipated, this is probably the last of the releases for the FM2 chipset.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> Here in the US, the 870 is selling for $3- $5 more than what the 860 was going for before the 870 release and about the same as the 860 when it was first released. Right now, the 860 is $12 cheaper but some places I've checked are back ordered or just out of stock on the 860's. That's reasonable to me since they weren't manufacturing 860's on purpose (or so I've read). That makes the 870 viable, though I scratch my head wondering why it took so long to get to market here only to have an 880 right on its heels.


I think it just took them a lot longer to have a big enough supply of bum Godavari chips than they expected. We only get Athlons when there are APU chips that have flaws in the GPU section but otherwise work fine. They don't make them on purpose, and one of the reasons they're so cheap is because anything AMD makes off of them is a bonus. It's basically an FX-4350 on a non-upgradeable platform anyway.

As a manufacturing process improves, and the 28nm custom process that all Steamroller chips are made on has been in use a long time now, you get fewer defective parts. A few 870's showed up in Asia by last December, but it probably took them longer to get them packaged up for a worldwide release.


----------



## gaster

I just came across an 880K review. I can't read any of it and haven't run it through a translator yet, but I can read the graphs, etc. Nice cooler on this one. It's loading really slow for me now.

http://www.vmodtech.com/th/article/amd-athlon-x4-880k-processor-review


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I just came across an 880K review. I can't read any of it and haven't run it through a translator yet, but I can read the graphs, etc. Nice cooler on this one. It's loading really slow for me now.
> 
> http://www.vmodtech.com/th/article/amd-athlon-x4-880k-processor-review


One thing I don't understand from those pictures is, why is the default NB frequency 1600Mhz ? On 860k the default is 1800Mhz, I don't understand why would it be lower on 880k.


----------



## Spawne32

fedex came today


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaredwingsfan*
> 
> Do you think we might get a 890k before all is said and done?


Probably not. The 880ks are likely 7890k chips with failed iGPUs, so unless they're going to release a GV-A1 faster than the 7890k, there won't be any feed stock for the 880k. Well, not really. Anyway, FM2+ should be done now. AM4 + Bristol Ridge should be out by June. It could have been out by now, maybe, but . . . no dice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> fedex came today


Nice. Be sure to post about that thing in the 845 threads around here, or start your own. I'd like to see more data points on overclocking those things, as well as some discussion with proper technique. Bclk OC is so damned inconsistent.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Probably not. The 880ks are likely 7890k chips with failed iGPUs, so unless they're going to release a GV-A1 faster than the 7890k, there won't be any feed stock for the 880k. Well, not really. Anyway, FM2+ should be done now. AM4 + Bristol Ridge should be out by June. It could have been out by now, maybe, but . . . no dice.
> Nice. Be sure to post about that thing in the 845 threads around here, or start your own. I'd like to see more data points on overclocking those things, as well as some discussion with proper technique. Bclk OC is so damned inconsistent.


Damn shame they locked the multi on this thing, BCLK oc seems to only be very tiny gets, highest 845 ive seen so far is 4.1ghz and it was the equivalent of an 860k at like 6ghz.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Damn shame they locked the multi on this thing, BCLK oc seems to only be very tiny gets, highest 845 ive seen so far is 4.1ghz and it was the equivalent of an 860k at like 6ghz.


6Ghz??! wow, definitely worth playing with that BCLK then, 600Mhz oc isn't that bad. Have you seen any benchmarks? synthetics or some games?


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> It is a nice heatsink, and the same one AMD used for some FX-4100 and FX-6100 cpus, but some of those had different fans. I already had one from a previous computer and really like it.
> It does work better than the older and smaller aluminum only heatsinks. It will not be as good as a Hyper 212 or anything like that.


That's a Phenom II X2 550 cooler








Which I bet out performs any "Bulldozer Athlon"
An unlocked b60 surely would.
That's a full Deneb..L3 and all..highly binned, too.
No..no I'm not messing with that.(Bulldozer Athlons) I'd rather run a Propus.
Need the real AMD cooler:
http://techreport.com/review/16796/amd-phenom-ii-x4-955-processor


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> That's a Phenom II X2 550 cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which I bet out performs any "Bulldozer Athlon"
> An unlocked b60 surely would.
> That's a full Deneb..L3 and all..highly binned, too.
> No..no I'm not messing with that.(Bulldozer Athlons) I'd rather run a Propus.
> Need the real AMD cooler:
> http://techreport.com/review/16796/amd-phenom-ii-x4-955-processor


You are wrong on all counts.

The Phenom II 550 was a dual core, 80W, and it came with an all aluminum heatsink that was smaller than the new silent 95W heatsink they are putting in with the 845 and other Athlons and apus.
The 1045T 6 core Thuban was a 95W cpu and came with the same cheap all aluminum heatsink. I know, I bought several. One guy complaining with pics here: https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1298044

Like I said, these new coolers with the copper core were really introduced with the 95W FX-4100 and FX-6100. Most had black fans, not red, but the heatsink portion was the same. I still have one I'm using right now. Pics:

http://www.thelab.gr/forums/topic/129499-cpu-stock-vs-custom-cooler-stock-clocks/

http://images.ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_fx_6100_4100_review/amd_fx_boxed_cooler_95_watt.jpg

http://images.ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_fx_6100_4100_review/amd_fx_boxed_cooler_95_watt_top.jpg

http://www.dx.com/p/amd-fx-6100-95w-piledriver-six-core-3-3ghz-cpu-w-cooling-fan-golden-silver-242988#.VvCeIuIrKUk

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=13813891

Also, there is no way the Phenom II 550 beats these modern Athlons. It was a dual core only. Passmark score for the Phenom II 565 is only 2188. My Athlon 845 hit about 6100. The 860K is around 5500 to 5700 stock, and it goes up from there when overclocking. No comparison. I understand Passmark is mostly Integer, and the Athlon has 4 Integer units compared to the Phenom II x2 which has just 2, so it's not a really fair comparison, but those are the numbers.

One more...

GTA V from pclab: http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png

Look near the bottom. A stock 860K very slightly beat a Phenom II 965 overclocked to 4Ghz. A Phenom II x2 is half of that. How do you think it would do? It would be useless.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muzammil84*
> 
> 6Ghz??! wow, definitely worth playing with that BCLK then, 600Mhz oc isn't that bad. Have you seen any benchmarks? synthetics or some games?


Alot of what I have seen is from superpi, and I just got done my first round of benches with the 845 installed. Word of note, my A88XM Gaming board would NOT boot with the 1.4 bios, you have to install the 1.6 bios with carizzo support to get it to boot. Also has some issues with blue screens in windows with the XMP profile. Had to force linked state on the memory and force the 1600mhz speed in the bios for the ballistix memory to get it to boot up without error, go figure.

As it sits though, this processor with the turbo core scores identical in the 1M test as my 860k did @ 4.5ghz and is all around ALOT faster in the 32m test then the 860k was @ 4.5. Turbo core is sitting at 3790mhz in CPUZ.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> As it sits though, this processor with the turbo core scores identical in the 1M test as my 860k did @ 4.5ghz and is all around ALOT faster in the 32m test then the 860k was @ 4.5. Turbo core is sitting at 3790mhz in CPUZ.


Don't you have throttling on the 860K with such a high voltage ?


----------



## Spawne32

Not at all, thats in a no load situation, under stress that drops to 1.53-1.54 due to vdroop, even on this board which is probably one of the best you can get in the FM2+ mATX platform. But it is stable, verified with a 24 hour stress test. Preliminary testing with GW2 on this 845 is showing about a 2fps average drop in performance, which is disappointing to say the least.


----------



## Spawne32

Oh im on a coolermaster nepton 140xl now too btw, that I havent even maxed out with that oc.


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Damn shame they locked the multi on this thing, BCLK oc seems to only be very tiny gets, highest 845 ive seen so far is 4.1ghz and it was the equivalent of an 860k at like 6ghz.


I have no idea where you read that but it's complete bunk
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> That's a Phenom II X2 550 cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which I bet out performs any "Bulldozer Athlon"
> An unlocked b60 surely would.
> That's a full Deneb..L3 and all..highly binned, too.
> No..no I'm not messing with that.(Bulldozer Athlons) I'd rather run a Propus.
> Need the real AMD cooler:
> http://techreport.com/review/16796/amd-phenom-ii-x4-955-processor


Are you talking about the cooler performance or the CPU? There was never a bulldozer core Athlon. And these steamroller and newer Athlons definitely outperform K10 phenoms clock for clock.


----------



## Spawne32

passmark scores were none too impressive compared to the oc'ed 860k, my original benchmarks here were taken at the maximum oc i could boot too on this board which was 4.6ghz

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522956/860k-preliminary-results-vs-8320/0_20


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> I have no idea where you read that but it's complete bunk
> Are you talking about the cooler performance or the CPU? There was never a bulldozer core Athlon. And these steamroller and newer Athlons definitely outperform K10 phenoms clock for clock.


http://www.jagatoc.com/2016/03/hands-on-review-overclocking-athlon-x4-845-carrizo-murah-tanpa-igp/8/

was a typo, meant 5ghz


----------



## speedy22




----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> passmark scores were none too impressive compared to the oc'ed 860k, my original benchmarks here were taken at the maximum oc i could boot too on this board which was 4.6ghz


I got about 6100 for Passmark with my 845 on a Asus A88X-Pro motherboard. Your cpu-z screenshots are showing the cpu with just the 35 multiplier. It looks like it's not using the Turbo multipliers, which would explain the slightly lower score. Maybe the manufacturer needs to tweak the bios a bit, but just in case check the bios settings too. Maybe Turbo somehow got disabled. I checked the manual for your board, and it shows that the Turbo options are Auto, Enabled, and Disabled. Maybe Auto isn't working and you need to pick Enabled. Just a guess, but maybe worth a shot.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I got about 6100 for Passmark with my 845 on a Asus A88X-Pro motherboard. Your cpu-z screenshots are showing the cpu with just the 35 multiplier. It looks like it's not using the Turbo multipliers, which would explain the slightly lower score. Maybe the manufacturer needs to tweak the bios a bit, but just in case check the bios settings too. Maybe Turbo somehow got disabled. I checked the manual for your board, and it shows that the Turbo options are Auto, Enabled, and Disabled. Maybe Auto isn't working and you need to pick Enabled. Just a guess, but maybe worth a shot.


turbo core disables once the test it complete and the cpu goes back to idle


----------



## -Leopold-

Got a 860K fo my AMD budget itx build and paired it with a R7 260X, and im pretty happy with it.


----------



## Spawne32

The 3dmark results of the 845 vs the 860k @ 4.5 were so disappointing it wasnt even worth posting. lol Needless to say ill be going back to my 860k and throwing the 845 up for sale or building a small system for the office out of it, maybe an HTPC.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> The 3dmark results of the 845 vs the 860k @ 4.5 were so disappointing it wasnt even worth posting. lol Needless to say ill be going back to my 860k and throwing the 845 up for sale or building a small system for the office out of it, maybe an HTPC.


Now we really need to see it! Couldn't be worse than this: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/6375698


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> The 3dmark results of the 845 vs the 860k @ 4.5 were so disappointing it wasnt even worth posting. lol Needless to say ill be going back to my 860k and throwing the 845 up for sale or building a small system for the office out of it, maybe an HTPC.


Wow...


----------



## Binex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> The 3dmark results of the 845 vs the 860k @ 4.5 were so disappointing it wasnt even worth posting. lol Needless to say ill be going back to my 860k and throwing the 845 up for sale or building a small system for the office out of it, maybe an HTPC.


Stilt had said in his tests carizzo is ~5% IPC over Kaveri clock for clock


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Now we really need to see it! Couldn't be worse than this: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/6375698


lol i didnt even save the screenshot i was so disappointed with the results, the physics scores were at minimum at least 1000 points lower then the 860k and in most of the tests averaged around 1500-2000 points lower. If i can pull it back up ill post it up for you, just got done putting my 860k back in.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> Stilt had said in his tests carizzo is ~5% IPC over Kaveri clock for clock


and that seems to hold up, these claims that I kept seeing thrown around by other review sites arent holding true at all. The drop from 4mb to 2mb l2 cache seems to hurt it as well.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> and that seems to hold up, these claims that I kept seeing thrown around by other review sites arent holding true at all. The drop from 4mb to 2mb l2 cache seems to hurt it as well.


Did you test any games? Was looking fwd to that.


----------



## damric

Over the years I have been using the built-in benchmark in the game Far Cry 2. For CPU testing, there is the "Action Scene" which is absolutely CPU bound, works multiple cores, and benefits from low latency RAM and cache.

Interestingly enough, these are all at ~4500MHz

FX-4100 (Bulldozer) :



760K (Piledriver-Richland)



860K (Steamroller)



Edit, added i3-6100 for comparason:



i3-6100 HT OFF:


----------



## TinoArg

I hope Bristol Ridge is 4MB L2, or it'll be disappointing.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Over the years I have been using the built-in benchmark in the game Far Cry 2. For CPU testing, there is the "Action Scene" which is absolutely CPU bound, works multiple cores, and benefits from low latency RAM and cache.
> 
> Interestingly enough, these are all at ~4500MHz
> 
> FX-4100 (Bulldozer) :
> 
> 
> 
> 760K (Piledriver-Richland)
> 
> 
> 
> 860K (Steamroller)
> 
> 
> 
> Edit, added i3-6100 for comparason:


Nice, thanx for those comparisons, they really give a perspective. Really shows the power of steamroller compared to bulldozer and piledriver and the strength of Intels newest 2c/4t chip.
That would probably place pentium skylake between 860k and 6100, maybe closer to Athlon ?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Nice, thanx for those comparisons, they really give a perspective. Really shows the power of steamroller compared to bulldozer and piledriver and the strength of Intels newest 2c/4t chip.
> That would probably place pentium skylake between 860k and 6100, maybe closer to Athlon ?


I turned off HT to simulate a Pentium and ran it again. I edited my comparison. It ran worse with HT off, but still much better than the rest.


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> You are wrong on all counts.
> 
> The Phenom II 550 was a dual core, 80W, and it came with an all aluminum heatsink that was smaller than the new silent 95W heatsink they are putting in with the 845 and other Athlons and apus.
> The 1045T 6 core Thuban was a 95W cpu and came with the same cheap all aluminum heatsink. I know, I bought several. One guy complaining with pics here: https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1298044
> 
> Like I said, these new coolers with the copper core were really introduced with the 95W FX-4100 and FX-6100. Most had black fans, not red, but the heatsink portion was the same. I still have one I'm using right now. Pics:
> 
> http://www.thelab.gr/forums/topic/129499-cpu-stock-vs-custom-cooler-stock-clocks/
> 
> http://images.ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_fx_6100_4100_review/amd_fx_boxed_cooler_95_watt.jpg
> 
> http://images.ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_fx_6100_4100_review/amd_fx_boxed_cooler_95_watt_top.jpg
> 
> http://www.dx.com/p/amd-fx-6100-95w-piledriver-six-core-3-3ghz-cpu-w-cooling-fan-golden-silver-242988#.VvCeIuIrKUk
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=13813891
> 
> *Also, there is no way the Phenom II 550 beats these modern Athlons.* It was a dual core only. Passmark score for the Phenom II 565 is only 2188. My Athlon 845 hit about 6100. The 860K is around 5500 to 5700 stock, and it goes up from there when overclocking. No comparison. I understand Passmark is mostly Integer, and the Athlon has 4 Integer units compared to the Phenom II x2 which has just 2, so it's not a really fair comparison, but those are the numbers.
> 
> One more...
> 
> GTA V from pclab: http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png
> 
> Look near the bottom. A stock 860K very slightly beat a Phenom II 965 overclocked to 4Ghz. A Phenom II x2 is half of that. How do you think it would do? It would be useless.


http://hwbot.org/submission/3047059_radi_cinebench___r11.5_athlon_x4_860k_5.04_points Ln2 860K

http://hwbot.org/submission/2397652_knopflerbruce_cinebench___r11.5_phenom_ii_x2_555_be_6.03_points Ln2 555 BE

What's that?









It appears I've found a way that they do









You don't even want to start looking @ SuperPi times.

The fact is:The Bulldozer architecture has/had significantly less single-core performance than previous generation.

PS:There's no unlocking of Bulldozer chips


----------



## maltamonk

Kinda hard to compare that i3-6100 ($120)vs 860k ($70) as it costs almost 2x as much.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> I turned off HT to simulate a Pentium and ran it again. I edited my comparison. It ran worse with HT off, but still much better than the rest.












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Kinda hard to compare that i3-6100 ($120)vs 860k ($70) as it costs almost 2x as much.


He turned off hyper-threading to simulate strongest skylake pentium (G4520), which is more in line with 860k pricing point, though still more expensive. Pentium is 100Mhz slower than his i3, but thats not a big difference since numbers are too much in favor of the skylake compared to steamroller.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Kinda hard to compare that i3-6100 ($120)vs 860k ($70) as it costs almost 2x as much.


???

Whole platform is not 2x as much.

860K with good enough board for overclock

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($69.99 @ B&H)
*Motherboard:* Asus A88X-PRO ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($98.98 @ Newegg)
*Memory:* G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($38.99 @ Newegg)
*Total:* $207.96
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 16:02 EDT-0400_

Overclockable Pentium:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* Intel Pentium G4400 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($58.99 @ SuperBiiz)
*Motherboard:* ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($82.98 @ Newegg)
*Memory:* Team Dark Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($36.99 @ Newegg)
*Total:* $178.96
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 16:00 EDT-0400_

non-OC i3 still faster than OC 860K:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor ($112.99 @ SuperBiiz)
*Motherboard:* MSI H110M Pro-VD Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Micro Center)
*Memory:* Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($29.99 @ Newegg)
*Total:* $187.97
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 16:04 EDT-0400_

i3 with OC mobo and RAM:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor ($112.99 @ SuperBiiz)
*Motherboard:* ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($82.98 @ Newegg)
*Memory:* Team Dark Pro 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($36.99 @ Newegg)
*Total:* $232.96
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-23 16:05 EDT-0400_

Also, to get an Athlon 860K to 4.5GHz you better have a very good cooler. I know from experience


----------



## maltamonk

I get that, but I just can't bring myself to value simulated benchmarks of FC2 all that much. I'm really just trying to determine whether or not to get an 860k/845 or something else for a htpc. I don't want to be able to run anything max, just playable as quietly as possible, and as cheaply as possible. It's currently using an old core2quad 8200 so I'd need to replace chip/mobo/ram and I'm trying to stay in that $150 range.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> I get that, but I just can't bring myself to value simulated benchmarks of FC2 all that much. I'm really just trying to determine whether or not to get an 860k/845 or something else for a htpc. I don't want to be able to run anything max, just playable as quietly as possible, and as cheaply as possible. It's currently using an old core2quad 8200 so I'd need to replace chip/mobo/ram and I'm trying to stay in that $150 range.


$150 is a predicament unless you don't mind shopping for used hardware in our marketplace. If it were 6-18 months ago the Athlon 860K would be a no-brainer, but now there are definitely Intel alternatives in that price range.


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> $150 is a predicament unless you don't mind shopping for used hardware in our marketplace. If it were 6-18 months ago the Athlon 860K would be a no-brainer, but now there are definitely Intel alternatives in that price range.


I've been looking in the marketplace for a while and tbh everyone seems to want full retail for everything. That aside, I have no issues waiting for sales. I think the mobo's would be the easiest place to work on that budget.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> I've been looking in the marketplace for a while and tbh everyone seems to want full retail for everything. That aside, I have no issues waiting for sales. I think the mobo's would be the easiest place to work on that budget.


I justy sold my 870k, ASRock matx board and 8GB DDR3 for $100, but I don't sell on tyhis forum any more because of tyhe styupid policies (my keyboard is broken donty mind tyhe extyra ys).


----------



## 7850K

Nice benches Damric







I'd be more interested to see the factory clocked i3.
now if only you had a phenom quad to add to the comparison.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3047059_radi_cinebench___r11.5_athlon_x4_860k_5.04_points Ln2 860K
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2397652_knopflerbruce_cinebench___r11.5_phenom_ii_x2_555_be_6.03_points Ln2 555 BE
> 
> What's that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears I've found a way that they do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even want to start looking @ SuperPi times.
> 
> The fact is:The Bulldozer architecture has/had significantly less single-core performance than previous generation.


we know Kaveri does not scale well beyond 4.7Ghz.
super pi times are not a real world metric.
Piledriver more or less matched K10 single core performance and the uarch has just gotten better since then


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Binex*
> 
> I have no idea where you read that but it's complete bunk
> Are you talking about the cooler performance or the CPU? There was never a bulldozer core Athlon. And *these steamroller and newer Athlons definitely outperform K10 phenoms clock for clock.*


You're going to have to provide examples of that happening.
I seriously do not think that is the case.

Where's this Zen?
(I will not buy a board or chip until I see actual benchmarks)


----------



## -Leopold-

I would also try to overclock my 860k, but i think i'll need a good CPU-Cooler. Can't decide between Enermax Liqmax ii 240 (AiO 240mm Rad) & EKL Alpenföhn Atlas (Dual Tower Air Cooler). Any suggestions for a first overclock try?


----------



## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Leopold-*
> 
> I would also try to overclock my 860k, but i think i'll need a good CPU-Cooler. Can't decide between Enermax Liqmax ii 240 (AiO 240mm Rad) & EKL Alpenföhn Atlas (Dual Tower Air Cooler). Any suggestions for a first overclock try?


oy vey..

My choice would be this:
http://www.overclock.net/t/557313/rays-bong-build-how-to-56k-warning-come-see/0_100

but you know....

probably Hyper 212 evo these days.

There were some better ones for cheaper a couple years ago..all gone now.


----------



## muzammil84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Leopold-*
> 
> I would also try to overclock my 860k, but i think i'll need a good CPU-Cooler. Can't decide between Enermax Liqmax ii 240 (AiO 240mm Rad) & EKL Alpenföhn Atlas (Dual Tower Air Cooler). Any suggestions for a first overclock try?


I was seriously considering Atlas as well for my Athlon some time ago but apparently it's not performing very well(despite really nice and solid look). Bit pricey too.
Raijintek has some interesting options if you wanna stay at air. Raijintek Themis is cheap little cooler that beats a lot of bigger and more expensive ones, supports 2 fans. Ereboss is bigger and bit more expensive but it won't fit in most midi atx cases.
Liqmax ii 240 would be definitely better than those two. found some benchmarks for these coolers:



wow, apparently Nemesis is even better than Liqmax!! but that's massive thing, need big case for that.


----------



## Bobby1776

Hello everyone,
I get Arctic Freezer 7 Pro Ver.2 CPU Cooler for my 860k. Also order these aluminum heatsinks for VRM/Mosfet section of GB F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1 mobo. 

I know that Freezer 7 Pro is not the best choice, but for the money and size ( this is one of few CPU Coolers that fit in my case Zalman T3 )

My Goal is to try OC 860k to 4.2/4.3GHz
The Problem is that i am almost new to OC CPU. First i am planing to try OC with Gigabyte app Easy Tune- there is 3 options for OC: Light-4.1GHz / Medium-4.2GHz / Extreme-4.3GHz

Defiantly will need some Help from you guys,some step by step tutorial or video will help a lot.

Thanks in advance


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> The 3dmark results of the 845 vs the 860k @ 4.5 were so disappointing it wasnt even worth posting. lol Needless to say ill be going back to my 860k and throwing the 845 up for sale or building a small system for the office out of it, maybe an HTPC.


Spawne, you had to know what you were buying going in. I have modest expectations. It is just something to play with. Get bored and throw it in a drawer.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3047059_radi_cinebench___r11.5_athlon_x4_860k_5.04_points Ln2 860K
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2397652_knopflerbruce_cinebench___r11.5_phenom_ii_x2_555_be_6.03_points Ln2 555 BE
> 
> What's that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears I've found a way that they do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even want to start looking @ SuperPi times.
> 
> The fact is:The Bulldozer architecture has/had significantly less single-core performance than previous generation.
> 
> PS:There's no unlocking of Bulldozer chips


"It appears I've found a way that they do"

No, you just changed your argument. This was your first statement:

"That's a Phenom II X2 550 cooler
Which I bet out performs any "Bulldozer Athlon"
An unlocked b60 surely would."

You said a Phenom II X2 550 beats these Athlons. You specifically said X2, and also 550, which again means 2 cores.

Now you post a link to a Hwbot submission that very clearly says 4 cores active.

Here is a real Phenom II X2 dual core Cinebench 11.5 result. Note LN2 and 6.5 Ghz:

http://hwbot.org/submission/2490416_bud_eric_cinebench___r11.5_phenom_ii_x2_560_be_3.31_points

We all know the Phenom II x4 does well and can beat these Athlons in Cinebench because it has 4 floating point units, but that's not what you originally said. Also nobody plays Cinebench.

The newer architecture of the Athlons does pretty well and can hang in games with the Phenom II quads. I even showed you that in newer games like GTA V that the Athlon wins. Considering the low price, that's good enough for me. They run cooler than a Phenom II as well. Have fun playing Cinebench.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> "It appears I've found a way that they do"
> 
> No, you just changed your argument. This was your first statement:
> 
> "That's a Phenom II X2 550 cooler
> Which I bet out performs any "Bulldozer Athlon"
> An unlocked b60 surely would."
> 
> You said a Phenom II X2 550 beats these Athlons. You specifically said X2, and also 550, which again means 2 cores.
> 
> Now you post a link to a Hwbot submission that very clearly says 4 cores active.
> 
> Here is a real Phenom II X2 dual core Cinebench 11.5 result. Note LN2 and 6.5 Ghz:
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2490416_bud_eric_cinebench___r11.5_phenom_ii_x2_560_be_3.31_points
> 
> We all know the Phenom II x4 does well and can beat these Athlons in Cinebench because it has 4 floating point units, but that's not what you originally said. Also nobody plays Cinebench.
> 
> The newer architecture of the Athlons does pretty well and can hang in games with the Phenom II quads. I even showed you that in newer games like GTA V that the Athlon wins. Considering the low price, that's good enough for me. They run cooler than a Phenom II as well. Have fun playing Cinebench.


This x1000.


----------



## damric

Technically, if the floating point calculations in Cinebench used AVX, then the Steamroller wins, but it doesn't.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Did you test any games? Was looking fwd to that.


I did, I didnt bother posting results because it was disappointing. GW2 averaged 2fps less in lions arch then the 860k @ 4.5ghz. The lack of the ability to oc the 845 kills it, as does the smaller L2. BF4 and diablo 3 produced similar results with 1-2 less average FPS.


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Spawne, you had to know what you were buying going in. I have modest expectations. It is just something to play with. Get bored and throw it in a drawer.


Oh i knew what I was buying, but I was hoping it would at least be on par with the 860k @ 4.5ghz in terms of performance with the turbo core at 3.8ghz. Figured I could get a lower power solution that didnt need to be oc'ed to match my 860k and get some slightly better IPC in the process. Wasn't even close to my expectations in terms of performance and I bought into a little of the hype to be honest. lol The price is what drew me in, was cheap enough where I could just leave it sitting in a drawer or sell it and not feel bad about it.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> I did, I didnt bother posting results because it was disappointing. GW2 averaged 2fps less in lions arch then the 860k @ 4.5ghz. The lack of the ability to oc the 845 kills it, as does the smaller L2. BF4 and diablo 3 produced similar results with 1-2 less average FPS.


What's most important for most people is stock speed vs stock speed. Of course when you already have your 860K at 4.5GHz, the other one at stock may be disappointing. I felt kind of same when moving from a 5GHz Athlon 760K to my 4.5GHz 760K. Actual gaming performance was too close, granted at same clock speed the 760K was noticeably slower. Newer isn't always better.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Oh i knew what I was buying, but I was hoping it would at least be on par with the 860k @ 4.5ghz in terms of performance with the turbo core at 3.8ghz. Figured I could get a lower power solution that didnt need to be oc'ed to match my 860k and get some slightly better IPC in the process. Wasn't even close to my expectations in terms of performance and I bought into a little of the hype to be honest. lol The price is what drew me in, was cheap enough where I could just leave it sitting in a drawer or sell it and not feel bad about it.


I thought you were reading thru the 845 threads? As has been stated here many times in various threads the Athlon 845 can't match Steamroller cpu's that have 4 megs of L2 and run at at least 500 extra MHz faster. The Stilt even said it a while back. I think it is probably a good cpu for a basic home pc.


----------



## speedy22

if you want a basic home pc, it is better to buy an APU with IGP "card integrated"
why spend money for this cpu+add graphic card ? it will cost more......


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> I did, I didnt bother posting results because it was disappointing. GW2 averaged 2fps less in lions arch then the 860k @ 4.5ghz. The lack of the ability to oc the 845 kills it, as does the smaller L2. BF4 and diablo 3 produced similar results with 1-2 less average FPS.


That actually sounds pretty good to me. Since it's locked I could get by with a cheap mobo and since it's tdp is 65w vs the 95 of the 860k, I should be able to keep it quieter. And it keeps the whole deal under $150 for me


----------



## Spawne32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> That actually sounds pretty good to me. Since it's locked I could get by with a cheap mobo and since it's tdp is 65w vs the 95 of the 860k, I should be able to keep it quieter. And it keeps the whole deal under $150 for me


Wanna buy mine? lol


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> if you want a basic home pc, it is better to buy an APU with IGP "card integrated"
> why spend money for this cpu+add graphic card ? it will cost more......


This is exactly what I was thinking. I really don't know what place the 845 is supposed to hold in AMD's lineup. It's sort of an anomaly. You want a HTPC? APUs make a lot of sense. You want a budget build PC and want to experiment with overclocking? The 860K and 870K make a lot of sense. Not really seeing where the 845 fits in with that locked multiplier. I still would have liked to see the 845 perform in some games that we know are seriously CPU bound.


----------



## robertparker

I'm guessing they had enough Carizzo chips with bad graphics, so they might as well sell them.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robertparker*
> 
> I'm guessing they had enough Carizzo chips with bad graphics, so they might as well sell them.


Yeah it's just a bridge to get to Zen. Gotta pay the bills I definitely understand that.


----------



## Scorpion49

I'm actually sort of interested in bristol ridge, its still steamroller based but with DDR4. Maybe they've revamped the memory controller and it won't be such utter crap, we know it gains decently the faster memory you put with it.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I'm actually sort of interested in bristol ridge, its still steamroller based but with DDR4. Maybe they've revamped the memory controller and it won't be such utter crap, we know it gains decently the faster memory you put with it.


Bristol Ridge will be excavator cores and have a working iGPU. But it should be unlocked and the rumored top chip turbos to 4Ghz. No idea if the memory controller is new.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Bristol Ridge will be excavator cores and have a working iGPU. But it should be unlocked and the rumored top chip turbos to 4Ghz. No idea if the memory controller is new.


Yeah thats what I meant, same as carrizo. So many names lol. The memory controller has to be new doesn't it? I don't think excavator has any hidden DDR4 capability right now?


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Yeah thats what I meant, same as carrizo. So many names lol. The memory controller has to be new doesn't it? I don't think excavator has any hidden DDR4 capability right now?


Carrizo already has a DDR4 controller, it's only disabled for notebooks and desktop. It was used in Merlin Falcon R-Series with the same socket as mobile Carrizo (FP4)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9726/amd-launches-excavator-based-rseries-apus-for-embedded-with-ddr4-support

And you can see the dual memory controller from the die shots.



I don't think they fixed it, since is only limited to DDR4 2400, it probably has the same 2500MT/s (1250Mhz) wall than Kaveri. And the NB works at a lower frequency in the 845, I hope Bristol Ridge has the NB at more than 2GHz.

PS: More benchs from the 845, seems the 2MB cache penalized it a lot. http://allcompanies.website/2016/03/24/the-first-and-the-last-processor-overview-the-amd-athlon-x4-845/


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> if you want a basic home pc, it is better to buy an APU with IGP "card integrated"
> why spend money for this cpu+add graphic card ? it will cost more......


No, you can buy an 860K or 870K and get a cheap discrete card for less than a A10-7870 costs and beat the pants off it in the process.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Over the years I have been using the built-in benchmark in the game Far Cry 2. For CPU testing, there is the "Action Scene" which is absolutely CPU bound, works multiple cores, and benefits from low latency RAM and cache.
> 
> Interestingly enough, these are all at ~4500MHz


Could you post a SS of the benchmark run including the header that shows the settings it was being run at?
Like so


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Could you post a SS of the benchmark run including the header that shows the settings it was being run at?
> Like so


Well I can't for the old ones since those were up to like 5 years old, but they were all 1080p 60Hz ultra max AA. With the FX-4100 it was ran with 2x HD 6850s in CFX. The others were with 1x HD 7850. None of them were anywhere near 100% GPU load for any part of the benchmark according to Afterburner.

I dug up my very old results here. The 860K results I still had on disk. Obviously I can make new i3 results now since that's what's on my test bench.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/update-on-my-fx-4100-more-tuning-performance.161062/#post-2554752

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/comparisons-of-cpu-gpu-ram-overclocks-and-comparing-bottlenecks-fm2-cpu.196940/


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Could you post a SS of the benchmark run including the header that shows the settings it was being run at?
> Like so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I can't for the old ones since those were up to like 5 years old, but they were all 1080p 60Hz ultra max AA. With the FX-4100 it was ran with 2x HD 6850s in CFX. The others were with 1x HD 7850. None of them were anywhere near 100% GPU load for any part of the benchmark according to Afterburner.
> 
> I dug up my very old results here. The 860K results I still had on disk. Obviously I can make new i3 results now since that's what's on my test bench.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/update-on-my-fx-4100-more-tuning-performance.161062/#post-2554752
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/comparisons-of-cpu-gpu-ram-overclocks-and-comparing-bottlenecks-fm2-cpu.196940/
Click to expand...

Just being my typical curious self, thanks for the reply.


----------



## -Leopold-

Is there a noticeable performance boost when you overclock the 860k (more fps in games or so) Or is it not worth it? I have zero overclocking experience. My Mainboard is a ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Leopold-*
> 
> Is there a noticeable performance boost when you overclock the 860k (more fps in games or so) Or is it not worth it? I have zero overclocking experience. My Mainboard is a ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+.


Depends on the games you play. If you play CPU intensive games you need to overclock the 860K for an optimal gaming experience. If you plan on overclocking there are plenty of ppl here that can help you. First thing you should do is take some time and read through the thread.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Leopold-*
> 
> Is there a noticeable performance boost when you overclock the 860k (more fps in games or so) Or is it not worth it? I have zero overclocking experience. My Mainboard is a ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+.


Not really outside of benchmarks, atleast from I noticed with my Athlons. Maybe a few frames but if a game has major performance issues, an overclock won't really do much. Your system is pretty evenly matched up, so you should be maxing both GPU and CPU pretty easily.

Personally I've backed off from overclocking in the last year or so since I mainly just target 60 fps, the benefit just isn't really there. If you're trying to feed a 120Hz+ monitor, that may be different.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Leopold-*
> 
> Is there a noticeable performance boost when you overclock the 860k (more fps in games or so) Or is it not worth it? I have zero overclocking experience. My Mainboard is a ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+.


Forget about overclocking with an ITX board. You really need a full ATX board. Even then most boards suck. There are three that are standouts.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Forget about overclocking with an ITX board. You really need a full ATX board. Even then most boards suck. There are three that are standouts.


It may be worth trying a small overclock, like forcing max frequency to 4 or 4.1ghz, it should be possible with very reasonable voltage.


----------



## Rabit

OC to around 4.4-4.5Ghz will require add Heatsinks on mosfets on mobo power section and adding small cooler to cool it down I use fan from AMD box cooler and I put 7V to it









Difference Stock and OC to 4.5Ghz + others CPUs to compare on different GPUs:

http://www.overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,8,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-gtx-780

http://www.overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,9,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-r9-290x

Gain from OC is around 20% more FPS if you use strong GPU


----------



## coffeerox

Stock 860K can surprisingly tackle many many games, so long as they're properly multithreaded. The older dual core games run sub par no matter what and that's really the one of the few major things that hold the 860K back.

Overclocking even to 4.0Ghz makes it run smoother and more consistent. I don't know how to explain it, but I can perceive the lag when it goes from 1.7Ghz to 4.0ghz.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> OC to around 4.4-4.5Ghz will require add Heatsinks on mosfets on mobo power section and adding small cooler to cool it down I use fan from AMD box cooler and I put 7V to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Difference Stock and OC to 4.5Ghz + others CPUs to compare on different GPUs:
> 
> http://www.overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,8,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-gtx-780
> 
> http://www.overclock.pl/articles/show/id/660,9,13,wydajnosc-po-podkreceniu-zestawienie-zbiorcze-r9-290x
> 
> Gain from OC is around 20% more FPS if you use strong GPU


Sadly also for the 860K it would be recommended to use nvidia GPU. It has been demonstrated that the increased CPU overhead of AMD drivers have significant impact on the performance for our "limited" processor.

I am considering to replace my AMD card by some nvidia Pascal later this year (equivalent to GTX960 / R9 380).


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Forget about overclocking with an ITX board. You really need a full ATX board. Even then most boards suck. There are three that are standouts.


I have that mobo, and it has a good VRM (4+2) and complete BIOS, though it doesn't have heatsinks in the mosfets. I add some heatsinks an a fan near it, and I can do 4.4GHz with my 7700K (with 4.5GHz it does some throttling). Is not 24/7, but because is a <7L case with a 220W PSU, so I have limited cooling and I don't see any difference in games, but the mobo is capable of that.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*


At 4.4 did you ever actually stress test it?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Sadly also for the 860K it would be recommended to use nvidia GPU. It has been demonstrated that the increased CPU overhead of AMD drivers have significant impact on the performance for our "limited" processor.


Where did you come up with that garbage?


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> At 4.4 did you ever actually stress test it?


Yes, 4 instances CPU Burner (the one it comes packaged with Furmark) and AIDA stress test for around one hour at 4,4GHz @ 1.3375v (LLC enabled). At 4.5GHz @1.3875v it started going to lower PStates. The CPU was around 65°C in both cases.

And I also tried CPU Burner + Furmark (after setting all the P-states to 4.4GHz to disable throttling), but temps go to hell in a few seconds. I couldn't go higher than 4.1GHz with CPU+GPU, but it was a heat problem. The TDP was around 125W monitoring with AIDA64.


----------



## tone1492

After using the 860k for more than 8 months I don't see the point in purchasing it and leaving it at stock, especially now with the 845 on the market and the tests that have been run with it by group members recently.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Yes, 4 instances CPU Burner (the one it comes packaged with Furmark) and AIDA stress test for around one hour at 4,4GHz @ 1.3375v (LLC enabled). At 4.5GHz @1.3875v it started going to lower PStates. The CPU was around 65°C in both cases.
> 
> And I also tried CPU Burner + Furmark (after setting all the P-states to 4.4GHz to disable throttling), but temps go to hell in a few seconds. I couldn't go higher than 4.1GHz with CPU+GPU, but it was a heat problem. The TDP was around 125W monitoring with AIDA64.


Those are lightweight compared to Prime95.


----------



## Bobby1776

Hello eveyone,

I just Overclock my 860k to 4.2GHz with GB EasyTune app.
Can you tell me please what are the recommended voltage settings for 4.2GHz ?? Just tell me which program to run ( CPU-Z, Aida64, HWiNFO64 ) and i will show you my screenshots with the settings.

I saw in AMD Overdrive that when CPU is at 4.2GHz the Voltage is 1.45v is that voltage OK ?
The temperature margin is 60-55 which is Good

Thanks in advance for your Help


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Where did you come up with that garbage?


It's fact that AMD has issues with their drivers in DX11, etc. They aren't multi-threaded. One can assume that saving those cycles for a game to use would improve performance somewhat.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hello eveyone,
> 
> I just Overclock my 860k to 4.2GHz with GB EasyTune app.
> Can you tell me please what are the recommended voltage settings for 4.2GHz ?? Just tell me which program to run ( CPU-Z, Aida64, HWiNFO64 ) and i will show you my screenshots with the settings.
> 
> I saw in AMD Overdrive that when CPU is at 4.2GHz the Voltage is 1.45v is that voltage OK ?
> The temperature margin is 60-55 which is Good


It depends on the chip. You may be able to do 4.2Ghz without a voltage increase, but you will need to stress test it for several hours to see how stable it is and go from there.
CPU-z is a good one to check voltages.

that voltage for 4.2Ghz sounds a bit higher than typically necessary, but I would not trust AMDOverdrives voltage numbers. It always shows 1.35v on mine no matter what I have set in BIOS.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hello eveyone,
> 
> I just Overclock my 860k to 4.2GHz with GB EasyTune app.
> Can you tell me please what are the recommended voltage settings for 4.2GHz ?? Just tell me which program to run ( CPU-Z, Aida64, HWiNFO64 ) and i will show you my screenshots with the settings.
> 
> I saw in AMD Overdrive that when CPU is at 4.2GHz the Voltage is 1.45v is that voltage OK ?
> The temperature margin is 60-55 which is Good
> 
> Thanks in advance for your Help


Normal voltage for this chip is pretty broad term, as it depends on your chip.

For checking the voltage outside of BIOS, I'd follow CPU-z or Aida64.
Stress testing via prime95 will test for almost all issues, however, only after using your chip for days without any random freezing (the ones that force you to force restart), can you truly know you have a stable OC.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> It depends on the chip. You may be able to do 4.2Ghz without a voltage increase, but you will need to stress test it for several hours to see how stable it is and go from there.
> CPU-z is a good one to check voltages.
> 
> that voltage for 4.2Ghz sounds a bit higher than typically necessary, but I would not trust AMDOverdrives voltage numbers. It always shows 1.35v on mine no matter what I have set in BIOS.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Normal voltage for this chip is pretty broad term, as it depends on your chip.
> 
> For checking the voltage outside of BIOS, I'd follow CPU-z or Aida64.
> Stress testing via prime95 will test for almost all issues, however, only after using your chip for days without any random freezing (the ones that force you to force restart), can you truly know you have a stable OC.


Many Thanks for your answers guys.
For OC I use EasyTune app, and that app give little bit more voltage when OC. I am rookie to OC that's why I use that app.
So Is it good idea to try to 4.3GHz ?!
Is it nessesery to OC North Bridge ?!My mono is GBF2A88XM-DH3 I put some heatsinks to VRM. I read here that some people with same mobo OC NB to 2.0.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Many Thanks for your answers guys.
> For OC I use EasyTune app, and that app give little bit more voltage when OC. I am rookie to OC that's why I use that app.
> So Is it good idea to try to 4.3GHz ?!
> Is it nessesery to OC North Bridge ?!My mono is GBF2A88XM-DH3 I put some heatsinks to VRM. I read here that some people with same mobo OC NB to 2.0.


You can try bumping up to 4300 Mhz without touching the voltage, see how it handles it. Stress test first, if it passes, use it couple of days, see if it locks up. If it does, bump voltage once and casually use PC again. Repeat until freezes stop.

When you find a stable clock, you can try overclocking NB. Mine CPU barely OC's to 4.2Ghz, but the NB part goes up to 2100Mhz very easy.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Those are lightweight compared to Prime95.


Yes, I know that, but is not my idea to burn the mobo/apu, and I have very limited cooling/airflow since it's an USFF case. With those test it's enough to assure is not going to crash when I'm gaming or watching movies. Is not my intention to run a workstation or server 24/7, so I don't need to add an extra 0.1v just to past Primer95 for 24hs, that's not even a real workload situation.


----------



## jaredismee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinoArg*
> 
> Yes, I know that, but is not my idea to burn the mobo/apu, and I have very limited cooling/airflow since it's an USFF case. With those test it's enough to assure is not going to crash when I'm gaming or watching movies. Is not my intention to run a workstation or server 24/7, so I don't need to add an extra 0.1v just to past Primer95 for 24hs, that's not even a real workload situation.


running it an hour, or even 30mins can pick up on issues. 24 hours would be way overkill for you.

watch the temps tho, ive fallen asleep before and woke up in a panic

and my cpu hits higher temps when gpu is going hard playing a game like fallout 4 than prime95 til stable temp does


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> You can try bumping up to 4300 Mhz without touching the voltage, see how it handles it. Stress test first, if it passes, use it couple of days, see if it locks up. If it does, bump voltage once and casually use PC again. Repeat until freezes stop.
> 
> When you find a stable clock, you can try overclocking NB. Mine CPU barely OC's to 4.2Ghz, but the NB part goes up to 2100Mhz very easy.


I use EasyTune to hit 4.3GHz now. But i just check the BIOS and saw that Core Preformance
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> You can try bumping up to 4300 Mhz without touching the voltage, see how it handles it. Stress test first, if it passes, use it couple of days, see if it locks up. If it does, bump voltage once and casually use PC again. Repeat until freezes stop.
> 
> When you find a stable clock, you can try overclocking NB. Mine CPU barely OC's to 4.2Ghz, but the NB part goes up to 2100Mhz very easy.


Now i hit 4.3GHz with EasyTune. I just check the BIOS settings and i cant understand which settings to disable or change. Can you tell me what to do ? Here is some image of BIOS
Core Performance Boost CPB - AUTO or Disable
Which settings must be bump CPU Clock ratio or ?
Can you tell me step by step what to do based on my BIOS settings ?
Many Thanks


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spawne32*
> 
> Damn shame they locked the multi on this thing, BCLK oc seems to only be very tiny gets, highest 845 ive seen so far is 4.1ghz and *it was the equivalent of an 860k at like 6ghz*.


If that were true, it would be as fast as a 4690K and probably match Skylake at times. And that's ridiculous.

The 860K at 4.5 can sometimes match a 3570K, and is at least as fast as an i5-2320 on any workload. An Excavator chip at 4.1 would be a rough match for an 860K at 4.5, but that's about all.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I use EasyTune to hit 4.3GHz now. But i just check the BIOS and saw that Core Preformance
> Now i hit 4.3GHz with EasyTune. I just check the BIOS settings and i cant understand which settings to disable or change. Can you tell me what to do ? Here is some image of BIOS
> Core Performance Boost CPB - AUTO or Disable
> Which settings must be bump CPU Clock ratio or ?
> Can you tell me step by step what to do based on my BIOS settings ?


your CPU clock ratio will set the multiplier to your desired frequency x100, so 4300Mhz(4.3Ghz) would be a clock ratio of 43
I have Core Performance boost, Cool&Quiet, cTDP, SVM, and APM disabled. I left C6 mode enabled.
I wouldn't bother changing your NB frequency until you are sure you are stable at 4.3Ghz.
under Advanced Voltage settings you can make incremental CPU voltage changes with the page up page down keys.
here is a good guide to read through: http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> your CPU clock ratio will set the multiplier to your desired frequency x100, so 4300Mhz(4.3Ghz) would be a clock ratio of 43
> I have Core Performance boost, Cool&Quiet, cTDP, SVM, and APM disabled. I left C6 mode enabled.
> I wouldn't bother changing your NB frequency until you are sure you are stable at 4.3Ghz.
> under Advanced Voltage settings you can make incremental CPU voltage changes with the page up page down keys.
> here is a good guide to read through: http://www.overclock.net/t/1474753/official-kaveri-overclock-guide-in-progress


Thanks again.
I disable: AMD Cool&Quiet Fuction, cTDP function, SVM Mode and APM
C6 Mode is Enabled and CPU core Control is on Automatic

But now AMD Overdrive show that two cores run at 4,2GHz and other two run at 1.7GHz How to fix that ?!?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I use EasyTune to hit 4.3GHz now. But i just check the BIOS and saw that Core Preformance
> Now i hit 4.3GHz with EasyTune. I just check the BIOS settings and i cant understand which settings to disable or change. Can you tell me what to do ? Here is some image of BIOS
> Core Performance Boost CPB - AUTO or Disable
> Which settings must be bump CPU Clock ratio or ?
> Can you tell me step by step what to do based on my BIOS settings ?
> Many Thanks


I personally would leave Cool n Quiet Enabled, and disable C6, APM and SVM. You don't toucg CPU core control of course.
Cool'n Quiet raises core clock and voltage depending on load. Disabling it makes your CPU run at max speed all the time. Leaving it Enabled gives CPU as much power as it needs, so you dont go 1.45v and 4300Mhz while using desktop or watching a video.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Thanks again.
> I disable: AMD Cool&Quiet Fuction, cTDP function, SVM Mode and APM
> C6 Mode is Enabled and CPU core Control is on Automatic
> 
> But now AMD Overdrive show that two cores run at 4,2GHz and other two run at 1.7GHz How to fix that ?!?


C6 does that. It's a power saving feature, you can leave it on.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> C6 does that. It's a power saving feature, you can leave it on.


OK, but C6 is ON (Enabled) i didnt tuch it.

P.S. I Enable AMD Cool&Quiet and same issue two core are at 4.3GHz all the time, two cores at 1.7GHz up to 4.3GHz


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK, but C6 is ON (Enabled) i didnt tuch it.
> 
> P.S. I Enable AMD Cool&Quiet and same issue two core are at 4.3GHz all the time, two cores at 1.7GHz up to 4.3GHz


C6 does that thing with cores. Fire up a game and it will rise all 4 cores to 4.3Ghz.

Honestly, I don't know 100% difference between C6 and Cool'n Quiet, all I know is that both are power saving options and that with C6 disabled and CnQ enabled, my cores don't act like yours, but instead they all rise up and down at the same clock speed.


----------



## 7850K

I have C6 enable and C&Q disabled and my cores all stay the same frequency. I have seen this issue in overdrive before after making BIOS changes. In overdrive you might try lowering the CPU multiplier by 1, then apply, then raise it back, apply, and see if it still shows different frequencies on 2 core sets. Also check CPUZ for core frequencies to see if they match overdrive. right clicking the core counter at the bottom will show frequencies for each core.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If that were true, it would be as fast as a 4690K and probably match Skylake at times. And that's ridiculous.
> 
> The 860K at 4.5 can sometimes match a 3570K, and is at least as fast as an i5-2320 on any workload. An Excavator chip at 4.1 would be a rough match for an 860K at 4.5, but that's about all.


He stated that 6GHz was a typo


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I have C6 enable and C&Q disabled and my cores all stay the same frequency. I have seen this issue in overdrive before after making BIOS changes. In overdrive you might try lowering the CPU multiplier by 1, then apply, then raise it back, apply, and see if it still shows different frequencies on 2 core sets. Also check CPUZ for core frequencies to see if they match overdrive. right clicking the core counter at the bottom will show frequencies for each core.


I reset all BIOS settings to default. And change only CPU Clock Ratio to 42 Disable CPB, APM

AMD Overdrive show same two cores at 4.2GHz and other two at 1.7GHz. CPU Z show everything OK, HWINFO64 show all cores OK too, but at this point after 5-10min Windows freeze and need restart. After restart Windows freeze again. What to do Next ?
In advance voltage settings everything is in AUTO.


----------



## coffeerox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Where did you come up with that garbage?


that's actually true. The problem came to a head in ROTTR where the graphics processing was obviously 1 thread. DX12 alleviated it somewhat which caused avg fps to drop, but min fps to increase and therefore a slightly more stable performance. It wasn't coded specifically for DX12 so it wasn't exactly the best example for what DX12 can do for the 860K.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I reset all BIOS settings to default. And change only CPU Clock Ratio to 42 Disable CPB, APM
> 
> AMD Overdrive show same two cores at 4.2GHz and other two at 1.7GHz. CPU Z show everything OK, HWINFO64 show all cores OK too, but at this point after 5-10min Windows freeze and need restart. After restart Windows freeze again. What to do Next ?
> In advance voltage settings everything is in AUTO.


Like I mentioned earlier, if the freezes happen, that means CPU doesn't have enough voltage. Increase CPU voltage by 2 increments, use PC normally and see if the freezes stop.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, if the freezes happen, that means CPU doesn't have enough voltage. Increase CPU voltage by 2 increments, use PC normally and see if the freezes stop.


OK i my case the CPU voltage is CPU Vcore right ?
The other settings like Vcore loadline Calibration / NBVID Loadline / Calibration NB Core / DRAM Voltage are in AUTO


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK i my case the CPU voltage is CPU Vcore right ?


That is correct.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> That is correct.


Thanks for confirm. I can change CPU Vcore with +0.006v at one bump
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, if the freezes happen, that means CPU doesn't have enough voltage. Increase CPU voltage by 2 increments, use PC normally and see if the freezes stop.


by 2 increments you mean 0.0012V or 0.006V ?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Thanks for confirm. I can change CPU Vcore with +0.006v at one bump
> by 2 increments you mean 0.0012V or 0.006V ?


1 increment = 0.006V. I suggested two since you are going from auto straight to a moderate overclock.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Thanks for confirm. I can change CPU Vcore with +0.006v at one bump
> by 2 increments you mean 0.0012V or 0.006V ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> 1 increment = 0.006V. I suggested two since you are going from auto straight to a moderate overclock.


Two times .006 equals .012, it does not equal .0012. Either way these voltage increments will do absolutely nothing. If you want to add enough voltage for any kind of a overclock you are looking at .05 or .1, those are the kinds of increases that get you 500 MHz and full GHz overclocks.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Two times .006 equals .012, it does not equal .0012. Either way these voltage increments will do absolutely nothing. If you want to add enough voltage for any kind of a overclock you are looking at .05 or .1, those are the kinds of increases that get you 500 MHz and full GHz overclocks.


He made a typo, still, one increment is 0.006V. We don't know what his chip is capable of, as some require little or no voltage increase for 4.2 OC.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> He made a typo, still, one increment is 0.006V. We don't know what his chip is capable of, as some require little or no voltage increase for 4.2 OC.


My 860K's, my 7850K, 7870K cpu's all topped out around 4.4 to 4.6 GHz. I had to add a good amount of vcore which is high to start with. FX cpu's are much more fun because you can actually overclock them.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> He made a typo, still, one increment is 0.006V. We don't know what his chip is capable of, as some require little or no voltage increase for 4.2 OC.


I just use AMD Overdrive to hit 4.2GHz at CPU VID 1.4125V and after 10 min of stress test i got Blue Screen.
CPU VID 1.4125V is target voltage i didnt touch it, just raise Multiplier at 42
So it seems that my chip cant go to 4.2GHz with stock voltage.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I just use AMD Overdrive to hit 4.2GHz at CPU VID 1.4125V and after 10 min of stress test i got Blue Screen.
> CPU VID 1.4125V is target voltage i didnt touch it, just raise Multiplier at 42
> So it seems that my chip cant go to 4.2GHz with stock voltage.


Now you know what you need to do. Just use the + sign on your num pad to increase vcore one or two increments. Repeat the test. Once your system goes under load your voltage will likely drop a little (vdroop). You can use Load Line Calibration to help stabilize it, but for now let's keep it simple. One step at a time. We can address LLC later once you feel comfy adjusting your Vcore. I had a Gigabyte board with my 860 as well so I know that BIOS like the back of my hand.

I also recommend using Hwinfo to monitor your hardware along with AMD Overdrive to monitor your thermal margin. Two monitors really help out in these situations.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Now you know what you need to do. Just use the + sign on your num pad to increase vcore one or two increments. Repeat the test. Once your system goes under load your voltage will likely drop a little (vdroop). You can use Load Line Calibration to help stabilize it, but for now let's keep it simple. One step at a time. We can address LLC later once you feel comfy adjusting your Vcore. I had a Gigabyte board with my 860 as well so I know that BIOS like the back of my hand.
> 
> I also recommend using Hwinfo to monitor your hardware along with AMD Overdrive to monitor your thermal margin. Two monitors really help out in these situations.


OK, now Vcore is +0.012V at 4.2GHz
Turbo Boost and APM are Disable. Cool&Quite, SVM and C6 are Enable. CPU core control is on Auto
I use CPUz, AMD Overdrive, SpeedFan and HWINFO64 at same time to monitor everyting as possible








Now i will run stress test again, if Windows crash again will up Vcore with +0.012V again Right ?!?

P.S. After 20min of Stress Test seems OK. Here is some monitoring.What you think about temp and voltage in the picture ? CPU 0 package in HWINFO64 shows 97.1 C - i dont think this is possible what you think about temp.?!?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK, now Vcore is +0.012V at 4.2GHz
> Turbo Boost and APM are Disable. Cool&Quite, SVM and C6 are Enable. CPU core control is on Auto
> I use CPUz, AMD Overdrive, SpeedFan and HWINFO64 at same time to monitor everyting as possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now i will run stress test again, if Windows crash again will up Vcore with +0.012V again Right ?!?
> 
> P.S. After 20min of Stress Test seems OK. Here is some monitoring.What you think about temp and voltage in the picture ? CPU 0 package in HWINFO64 shows 97.1 C - i dont think this is possible what you think about temp.?!?


Are you overclocking in the BIOS. The screenshots you posted earlier. Do not OC using AMD Overdrive.

Ignore the CPU package temps in HWinfo. They are not correct. Monitoring software does not calculate Kaveri CPUs/APUs temps correctly. Just pay attention to thermal margin in AMD overdrive.

.012v increments are fine.


----------



## 7850K

HWinfo is showing your core voltage as 1.375 even though vcore is set to 1.44, you should enable LLC (loadline calibration) in BIOS. Medium is a good LLC setting in Gigabyte boards to keep the voltage where you set it under load.
About the only info I'd trust in overdrive is the thermal margin, and overdrive is about the best tool for watching temps.
with temps I will let mine get into the high single digits but it only every gets that hot in the summer. Your's looks fine.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Are you overclocking in the BIOS. The screenshots you posted earlier. Do not OC using AMD Overdrive.


My Last attempt to OC was in BIOS. last screenshot is durinng strest test in AMD Overdrive. What about that 97.1 C temp ??


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> My Last attempt to OC was in BIOS. last screenshot is durinng strest test in AMD Overdrive. What about that 97.1 C temp ??


See my last edited post concerning your CPU package temps. Completely ignore it. Thermal margin is all that matters with the 860k.

Also what @7850K said about Load Line Calibration on the Gigabyte boards is true. Medium setting will give you no vdroop. Whatever vcore you set in the BIOS will show up as that in Hwinfo.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> HWinfo is showing your core voltage as 1.375 even though vcore is set to 1.44, you should enable LLC (loadline calibration) in BIOS. Medium is a good LLC setting in Gigabyte boards to keep the voltage where you set it under load.
> About the only info I'd trust in overdrive is the thermal margin, and overdrive is about the best tool for watching temps.
> with temps I will let mine get into the high single digits but it only every gets that hot in the summer. Your's looks fine.


OK in my BIOS LLC (loadline calibration) ? I have Vcore loadline calibration - AUTO So i must change it to Medium Right without touch anything else ?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK in my BIOS LLC (loadline calibration) ? I have Vcore loadline calibration - AUTO So i must change it to Medium Right without touch anything else ?


correct. No need to touch the NB LLC which is right under it. Leave that on auto. Vcore LLC set to Medium.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> correct. No need to touch the NB LLC which is right under it. Leave that on auto. Vcore LLC set to Medium.


Done, Vcore LLC is set to Medium. Now what. some stress test again or to try some games test ?


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Done, Vcore LLC is set to Medium. Now what. some stress test again or to try some games test ?


Test for about an hour. Then play a few games. If you remain stable during the day run a stress test before you go to bed. If you don't crash after 8 hours of sleep you can try to go for a higher OC if your thermal margin is good.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> Test for about an hour. Then play a few games. If you remain stable during the day run a stress test before you go to bed. If you don't crash after 8 hours of sleep you can try to go for a higher OC if your thermal margin is good.


OK will do. Here is some screens during last stress test. I hope that this voltages is ok for 4.2GHz
Thanks again for Help. Will Update later


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK will do. Here is some screens during last stress test. I hope that this voltages is ok for 4.2GHz
> Thanks again for Help. Will Update later


Everything looks good. Since you set your LLC you might be able to get that stable on less voltage, but you can try that after this has been stabilized. Thermal margin and everything looks real good. We just need to keep that over 10-15 degrees


----------



## 7850K

I've noticed lately CPUz and HWinfo dont agree on voltages. I'm not sure which is more accurate but I know gigabyte's BIOS' are sub par at best.
what exactly is your VID set to in BIOS? 1.4125v sounds very typical for 4.2Ghz, but 1.44v is on the high side. Either way you should be able to stress test stable with those settings.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> I've noticed lately CPUz and HWinfo dont agree on voltages. I'm not sure which is more accurate but I know gigabyte's BIOS' are sub par at best.
> what exactly is your VID set to in BIOS? 1.4125v sounds very typical for 4.2Ghz, but 1.44v is on the high side. Either way you should be able to stress test stable with those settings.


In BIOS CPU Vcore is 1.428V I hope that is OK


----------



## drmrlordx

1.428v ain't gonna smoke your chip. If the temps are okay then you should be alright. Can you squeeze out any more clockspeed without raising that vcore?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 1.428v ain't gonna smoke your chip. If the temps are okay then you should be alright. Can you squeeze out any more clockspeed without raising that vcore?


Tomorrow i will try to 4.3GHz without raising vcore and will post results


----------



## drmrlordx

Good deal. And you don't really have to stop there . . . try 4.3-4.5 GHz and see how it goes. I would not expect anything above 4.5 GHz though.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Good deal. And you don't really have to stop there . . . try 4.3-4.5 GHz and see how it goes. I would not expect anything above 4.5 GHz though.


I just try 4.3GHz and Win. freeze just after restart. Now what, bump Vcore with +0.012V ?
Also i notice that after win freeze and restart BIOS show Vcore 1.416V on 4.3GHz


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I just try 4.3GHz and Win. freeze just after restart. Now what, bump Vcore with +0.012V ?
> Also i notice that after win freeze and restart BIOS show Vcore 1.416V on 4.3GHz


I am doing like this, increasing by +0.012V. Only adding +0.0065V does not give some extra margin and may make you lose some time.

you can also try to make the other way, start setting the offset to reach around 1.47/1.48v (what I consider as reasonable max voltage) and check how it behave at 4.3, 4.4.... Fall back if it fail.

Run stability tests ( prime95 or any other) and monitor that you don't have throttling of the CPU.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I am doing like this, increasing by +0.012V. Only adding +0.0065V does not give some extra margin and may make you lose some time.
> 
> you can also try to make the other way, start setting the offset to reach around 1.47/1.48v (what I consider as reasonable max voltage) and check how it behave at 4.3, 4.4.... Fall back if it fail.
> 
> Run stability tests ( prime95 or any other) and monitor that you don't have throttling of the CPU.


I just try to 4.3GHz with +0.012V Vcore .Got Blue Screen during stability test. Now i am back to 4.2GHz

What Next ?

P.S. I hope that @tone1492 and @7850K will be online soon to Help me


----------



## syl1979

Mine needs 1.44v to be stable at 4.2 and 1.48v for 4.3...

Try to verify stability first at 4.2 if you are not confident.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Mine needs 1.44v to be stable at 4.2 and 1.48v for 4.3...
> 
> Try to verify stability first at 4.2 if you are not confident.


I think that i already do this. make stress tests, play some games- BO3 Zombie







at 4.2GHz and so far, so Good


----------



## syl1979

Then save your settings and try to get 4.4 Ghz... it will not be much difference between 4.2 and 4.3.

If not possible to achieve, you should try to overclock the northbridge to 2000Mhz (normally just NB LLC at medium should be enough), and also work on the RAM frequency and latency (my DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 1.5v is now running at 2133 10-11-11-31 1.6v...)

Post also some bench like cinebench R15 or even the integrated from CPU-Z, it will allow to check if you have expected performance


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Then save your settings and try to get 4.4 Ghz... it will not be much difference between 4.2 and 4.3.
> 
> If not possible to achieve, you should try to overclock the northbridge to 2000Mhz (normally just NB LLC at medium should be enough), and also work on the RAM frequency and latency (my DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 1.5v is now running at 2133 10-11-11-31 1.6v...)
> 
> Post also some bench like cinebench R15 or even the integrated from CPU-Z, it will allow to check if you have expected performance


OK, what to do next increase Vcore with +0.012 or 0.024V at 4.3GHz ?!?


----------



## syl1979

If you target 4.3Ghz, push the LLC to medium first. Verify stability at 4.3. if not stable , increase Vcore by +0.012. If not stable, increase again by 0.012v until you are. Stop if you reach 1.5v....


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> If you target 4.3Ghz, push the LLC to medium first. Verify stability at 4.3. if not stable , increase Vcore by +0.012. If not stable, increase again by 0.012v until you are. Stop if you reach 1.5v....


LLC is to Medium already. Now during the stress test on 4.2GHz i got win freeze. and i bump Vcore +0.024V
Now i will test again, if everything is OK at 4.2GHz will up Vcore with another +0.024V to 4.3GHz
My target is up to 4.4GHz


----------



## syl1979

Just check your thermal margin under load. Target 10 minimum. If going below 5 the CPU will start to throttle down to 3500Mhz


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Just check your thermal margin under load. Target 10 minimum. If going below 5 the CPU will start to throttle down to 3500Mhz


Under very heavy load at 4.2GHz thermal margin is going from 60 to 20. I think that 4.3 will be my goal.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Under very heavy load at 4.2GHz thermal margin is going from 60 to 20. I think that 4.3 will be my goal.


At 4.3Ghz i get 366 points for Cinebench R15. CPU Z Bench 1255 / 4990


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Under very heavy load at 4.2GHz thermal margin is going from 60 to 20. I think that 4.3 will be my goal.


That is very realistic. The latter batches of 860K CPU did not overclock as well as the first batches it seems just by reading through this thread. I could only max mine out at 4.4GHz on 1.53v. I had an above avg cooling solution too.

Just some FYI:

I heard from a tech guy that I follow on Youtube that he has an 880K and R9 380 build on deck. He is testing and tweaking now and will debut it on his channel in a few days. he says that his 880K clocks to the same speed as his old 860k, yet his 880K is on the stock cooler and his 860k was on water. Looking fwd to his video.


----------



## drmrlordx

880k should smoke the 860k in terms of how easy it is to hit 4.5-4.7 GHz.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> That is very realistic. The latter batches of 860K CPU did not overclock as well as the first batches it seems just by reading through this thread. I could only max mine out at 4.4GHz on 1.53v. I had an above avg cooling solution too.
> 
> Just some FYI:
> 
> I heard from a tech guy that I follow on Youtube that he has an 880K and R9 380 build on deck. He is testing and tweaking now and will debut it on his channel in a few days. he says that his 880K clocks to the same speed as his old 860k, yet his 880K is on the stock cooler and his 860k was on water. Looking fwd to his video.


Pretty sure the 880K comes bundled with the "near silent" cooler which is the Wraith just without the shroud. So it is a pretty stout cooler. So I would be a little surprised and alarmed the 880K didn't smoke the 860K despite the cooling as the Wraith is bundled with the 8370 so we know it should be able to take all the 880K has to offer and then some.


----------



## speedy22

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/72286-amd-athlon-x4-880k-review.html

Nothing change the oc is similar as the 860k Only the cooling is better


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/72286-amd-athlon-x4-880k-review.html
> 
> Nothing change the oc is similar as the 860k Only the cooling is better


According to Cinebench R15, Athlon 880k loses in single threaded performance to a FX-4300 by 11 points. What nonsense, everyone knows Athlons have better single threaded perf and better IPC.


----------



## tone1492

Still early days with the 880K. We really won't know how far it can go until we get a few ppl pushing it with AIO coolers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> According to Cinebench R15, Athlon 880k loses in single threaded performance to a FX-4300 by 11 points. What nonsense, everyone knows Athlons have better single threaded perf and better IPC.


That makes no sense if its true.


----------



## 7850K

CPU-Z bench tool is a decent indicator of single thread performance between K15h's.


----------



## Horsemama1956

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> According to Cinebench R15, Athlon 880k loses in single threaded performance to a FX-4300 by 11 points. What nonsense, everyone knows Athlons have better single threaded perf and better IPC.


Pretty sure thats normal. The newer Athlons cope better when fully maxed than piledriver hence higher multi-threaded.


----------



## coffeerox

I finally got to Geothermal Valley last night on ROTTR. 18-20FPS. I was shocked! I was in DX12 when I got there.

edit:
It's just all over the place. In areas where there isn't insane LOD and foliage, the game runs at a smooth 60FPS, other times, fluctuating between 27-44FPS and in areas with dense vegetation, it drops to 18-20 with hard stutters. At this point, I think the problem has to do with the game's draw engine rather than the 860K's single threaded IPC. The IPC takes the problem and makes it worse. Witcher 3 had heavy foliage too yet the 860K ran that game great.

edit2:
the new killer instinct. maxes perfectly on 1366x768. I'll do more tests when I switch to my TV


edit3:
1080P, game still runs perfect, they did an amazing job on this port


----------



## newguyeverytime

Hmm, anyone overclocked the 870k or 880k? I'm wondering what the wall is on those, the average for the 860k appears to be around 4.3


----------



## Himo5

There's a 4645MHz wall on the 880K and the 7890K, get above 95watts and it crashes. Why they put a 125watt cooler on a part that crashes at 100watts is beyond me. Mind you, the IMC is stronger, you can actually run 2666 ram at 2666. If the 870K is the same as the the 7870K then 4700 and beyond is still possible.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> There's a 4645MHz wall on the 880K and the 7890K, get above 95watts and it crashes. Why they put a 125watt cooler on a part that crashes at 100watts is beyond me. Mind you, the IMC is stronger, you can actually run 2666 ram at 2666. If the 870K is the same as the the 7870K then 4700 and beyond is still possible.


Wait, there's an OC wall on 880k but not on 870k ?
The stronger IMC part, is that for both parts ?


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Wait, there's an OC wall on 880k but not on 870k ?
> The stronger IMC part, is that for both parts ?


Somehow I doubt hes binned dozens of these chips to find a hard-cap wall on the clock speed. 4645mhz is way too specific a number.


----------



## Himo5

The 4645MHz wall on the 880K was mentioned in the HardwareCanucks review quoted in Post 2894 and I'm finding the same thing on the A10-7890K. At the same time, using an IDE SATA setting, I'm able to boot with 111MHz BClk on a 2400 Ram divider giving me 2664MHz memory that can stress test on CPU speeds up to 4551MHz, but the next multiplier, 42x giving 4662MHz, will crash every time, regardless of Digi+ Power control settings. The moment output gets above 95watts you've had it.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> The 4645MHz wall on the 880K was mentioned in the HardwareCanucks review quoted in Post 2894 and I'm finding the same thing on the A10-7890K. At the same time, using an IDE SATA setting, I'm able to boot with 111MHz BClk on a 2400 Ram divider giving me 2664MHz memory that can stress test on CPU speeds up to 4551MHz, but the next multiplier, 42x giving 4662MHz, will crash every time, regardless of Digi+ Power control settings. The moment output gets above 95watts you've had it.


What does it do if you leave the BLCK at 100 and drop the memory down to like 2133? I hate to break it to you, but you're way over 95W long before you hit 4.5ghz on these chips so that is pretty much bunk.


----------



## Himo5

Not so.

Prime95 for 30+ minutes gives from each OC:

4600MHz x 1.5125V = 90.8watts(1.496V max)

4500MHz x 1.46875V = 83.0watts(1.448V max)

4400MHz x 1.425V = 75.2watts(1.408V max)

4300MHz x 1.36875V = 63.2watts(1.352V max)

4200MHz x 1.33125V = 58.6watts(1.312V max)

4100MHz x 1.29375V = 52.7watts(1.272V max)


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Not so.
> Prime95 for 30+ minutes gives from each OC:
> 4600MHz x 1.5125V = 90.8watts(1.496V max)
> 4500MHz x 1.46875V = 83.0watts(1.448V max)
> 4400MHz x 1.425V = 75.2watts(1.408V max)
> 4300MHz x 1.36875V = 63.2watts(1.352V max)
> 4200MHz x 1.33125V = 58.6watts(1.312V max)
> 4100MHz x 1.29375V = 52.7watts(1.272V max)


Where are you reading this from? I hope not a kill-a-watt.


----------



## Himo5

See bottom left hand corner under CPU Frequency.


----------



## Scorpion49

Asus software is not very accurate (and in many cases on AMD boards will not read past 99W), it tells me my 6700k is still under 70W when my UPS shows over 140W draw for CPU load. Actually, with all of the instability problems that come with that software I'm surprised you're running it. Are you using it to overclock from within the OS? If you are, that may be a component of your problem, it will enforce the TDP limitations regardless of if you have actual headroom or not with certain settings being used.


----------



## Himo5

All the wattage readings from 3500MHz up to 4600MHz - and I was watching them closely as they changed to spot the maximum - conformed absolutely to the scale of each OC to the next - they were all the expected values, and when I was attempting the 4700MHz OC the wattages were showing values above 100 watts - 100.1 ... 105.2 etc. just before they crashed. Also, over the last year or so many people have commented here on the accuracy of AI Suite 3 readings.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> All the wattage readings from 3500MHz up to 4600MHz - and I was watching them closely as they changed to spot the maximum - conformed absolutely to the scale of each OC to the next - they were all the expected values, and when I was attempting the 4700MHz OC the wattages were showing vales above 100 watts - 100.1 ... 105.2 etc. just before they crashed. Also, over the last year or so many people have commented here on the accuracy of AI Suite 3 readings.


Believe what you want, just don't tell everyone who might be interested in those chips that every single one of them is somehow limited to exactly 4645mhz unless you've tested the whole lot of them. That is the whole point here, your personal experience may not be indicative of every chip on the market. Perhaps there is even a BIOS issue since it hasn't actually really hit the market yet.


----------



## Himo5

This is the report from HardwareCanucks, which accurately described what I had found myself on the 7890K:

Quote:


> Regardless of BIOS settings, cooling (the stock 125W cooling solution proved to be more than adequate), voltage or any combination thereof, the CPU hit a brick wall at just 4.645GHz. Increasing the Bus speed or multiplier didn't allow me to hit the 4.7GHz mark but I have a feeling there's a platform limitation here; the board simply refused to POST at 4.7GHz but ran through every single stress test when set just 55MHz lower.


Seeing that 4700MHz is easy to reach on the 7870K, which the 7890K copies fairly closely right up past 4600MHz, I absolutely agree with the conclusion.

Like it or not, it's a wall. I've ditched W10 and reinstalled W8.1 with no change, I've tested it on the Asus A88x-Pro in BIOS 2001 and 2502(2015/12/28) as well.

There is one possibility, however: there's a TDP Configuration entry in the AI Tweaker Menu of UEFI BIOS which at the moment only accepts an Auto entry or a value between 45.0 and 65.0. If we are waiting for a BIOS fix, that's where it might be placed.


----------



## 7850K

even if it is correct and there is a wall, the stilt has said steamroller frequency scaling peaks around 4.7, so there is no real point other than validation to go higher anyway.


----------



## Ketcchup

Have you guys noticed any chip degradation? I've been running 4.2GHz at 1.43V and recently I have been forced to push it to 1.45V otherwise I get screen freezes


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Then save your settings and try to get 4.4 Ghz... it will not be much difference between 4.2 and 4.3.
> 
> If not possible to achieve, you should try to overclock the northbridge to 2000Mhz (normally just NB LLC at medium should be enough), and also work on the RAM frequency and latency (my DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 1.5v is now running at 2133 10-11-11-31 1.6v...)
> 
> Post also some bench like cinebench R15 or even the integrated from CPU-Z, it will allow to check if you have expected performance


Hi, i hit my Goal at 4.3GHz Vcore 1.476V +0.048V Thermal margin 65-15 Is it normal voltage and temp for 4.3GHz ?
CPU-Z Bench show 1250/4935
Can you Help me please to OC North Bridge ?! Tell me step by step what to do

Thanks in advance for Help


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hi, i hit my Goal at 4.3GHz Vcore 1.476V +0.048V Thermal margin 65-15 Is it normal voltage and temp for 4.3GHz ?
> CPU-Z Bench show 1250/4935
> Can you Help me please to OC North Bridge ?! Tell me step by step what to do
> 
> Thanks in advance for Help


OC-ing NB is very simple. Just raise multiplier from Auto to 2000 first with no voltage increase to see how the system behaves.
Stress on prime95 Blend test for a while and see if it passes. I got mine to 2100Mhz with only 1 bump on the default voltage.

Of course, there is a different voltage value tor CPU NB. I think default is around 1.1137.


----------



## 7850K

you might need to set NB LLC to medium as well
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hi, i hit my Goal at 4.3GHz Vcore 1.476V +0.048V Thermal margin 65-15 Is it normal voltage and temp for 4.3GHz ?


I would say that voltage is a little high for that frequency. The temp is fine but you dont really have anymore thermal headroom to add voltage. I'd try and see if you can stabilize 4.4ghz at that voltage. My cooler cant handle beyond 1.45v and I couldn't get 4.5Ghz stable at that volatge so I'm thermally capped at 4.4ghz & 1.438v.


----------



## drmrlordx

NB LLC causes NB instability for me on my A88x-Pro + 7700k. It may be a peculiarity of the chip. I have to use Regular.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> NB LLC causes NB instability for me on my A88x-Pro + 7700k. It may be a peculiarity of the chip. I have to use Regular.


I didn't have instability, but mine sits happily at Regular. However, my current capability is 110%. Kind of left it there intuitively, didn't test it at 100%.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Have you guys noticed any chip degradation? I've been running 4.2GHz at 1.43V and recently I have been forced to push it to 1.45V otherwise I get screen freezes


Mine at 4.2GHz need 1.452V / 0.036 to be stable. If i try lower voltage with 0.006V to 1.440 / 0.030V i got freeze !!!
So it seems that every 1GHz OC need +0.018V to be stable from previous
4.0GHz (default) -1.380V
4.1GHz - 1.416 / +0.018 Vcore
4.2GHz - 1.452 / +0.036 Vcore
4.3GHz - 1.488 / +0.054 Vcore

In my previous post i post that i got stable 4.3GHz at Vcore 1.476V +0.048V But on second day of testing i got Win. freeze ! So i need another +0.0006V to be stable 4.3GHz - 1.488 / +0.054 Vcore

Turbo Boost - Disabled
Cool&Quiet - Enabled
cTDP fuction - Disabled
SVM mode - Enabled
C6 mode - Enabled
CPU core control - Auto
APM - Disabled


----------



## speedy22

Cool&Quiet - Disabled
cTDP fuction - Disabled
SVM mode - Disabled
C6 mode - Disabled
CPU core control - Auto
APM - Disabled


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Cool&Quiet - Disabled
> cTDP fuction - Disabled
> SVM mode - Disabled
> C6 mode - Disabled
> CPU core control - Auto
> APM - Disabled


I would really like that comments like that are accompanied by a short explanation as to why do you recommend those settings.

Why (except to determine max OC, then switch back ON) is it ok for CPU to run 100% all the time, when C6 and C&Q exist and save energy and increase lifetime of the CPU ?


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeerox*
> 
> Hmm, since NB OC reduces amount of voltage needed for CPU, can I possibly use that to reach 4.4? As it stands, I need 1.5v just to hit 4.3.


C6 on my configuration makes the audio in music and games to stutter for a millisecond every 10 seconds or so.


----------



## speedy22

With C6 if your cpu is at idle low ratio with to much voltage= bsod or freeze.
For that you need to keep the vcore in Auto but the problem with the Auto mode is the instability for an overclocking because you need a constant voltage
http://www.overclock.net/t/1404334/amd-athlon-x2-340-370-and-athlon-x4-740-750k-760k-be-owners-club
http://www.ocinside.de/workshop_en/amd_fm2_overclock/


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> OC-ing NB is very simple. Just raise multiplier from Auto to 2000 first with no voltage increase to see how the system behaves.
> Stress on prime95 Blend test for a while and see if it passes. I got mine to 2100Mhz with only 1 bump on the default voltage.
> 
> Of course, there is a different voltage value tor CPU NB. I think default is around 1.1137.


Need Help please.
Just try to change NB from Auto to 2000Mhz and PC dont even boot just restart
And now after i chage back NB to Auto the max frequency of CPU is 3.9 But it was OC 4.2GHz
BIOS show 4.2GHz I try to restart few times and still got max 3.9GHz

Please tell me how to fix this ?
Many Thanks


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> With C6 if your cpu is at idle low ratio with to much voltage= bsod or freeze.
> For that you need to keep the vcore in Auto but the problem with the Auto mode is the instability for an overclocking because you need a constant voltage
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1404334/amd-athlon-x2-340-370-and-athlon-x4-740-750k-760k-be-owners-club
> http://www.ocinside.de/workshop_en/amd_fm2_overclock/


Hmm, when I enabled C6 after stress testing an OC, the freezes I get are totally random, some while watching a video in VLC, some while CPU is heavily used while gaming. They are just random freezes that happen when OC didn't get enough voltage, I don't know if they are related to C6 at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Need Help please.
> Just try to change NB from Auto to 2000Mhz and PC dont even boot just restart
> And now after i chage back NB to Auto the max frequency of CPU is 3.9 But it was OC 4.2GHz
> BIOS show 4.2GHz I try to restart few times and still got max 3.9GHz
> 
> Please tell me how to fix this ?
> Many Thanks


If BIOS shows 4200, where are you getting 3900 from ?

Did you try bumping voltage once or twice on NB after it failed to boot with default voltage ?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Hmm, when I enabled C6 after stress testing an OC, the freezes I get are totally random, some while watching a video in VLC, some while CPU is heavily used while gaming. They are just random freezes that happen when OC didn't get enough voltage, I don't know if they are related to C6 at all.
> If BIOS shows 4200, where are you getting 3900 from ?
> 
> Did you try bumping voltage once or twice on NB after it failed to boot with default voltage ?


In Windows max is 3.9GHz
I did what you tell me just change NB from AUTO to 2000 Without touching anything else.

P.S After few PC restarts / BIOS changes back to default settings and back to 4.2GHz Now everything seems Fine


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> In Windows max is 3.9GHz
> I did what you tell me just change NB from AUTO to 2000 Without touching anything else.
> 
> P.S After few PC restarts / BIOS changes back to default settings and back to 4.2GHz Now everything seems Fine


Glad to hear.

If you want to OC that NB, try raising the voltage gradually until it boots.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Glad to hear.
> 
> If you want to OC that NB, try raising the voltage gradually until it boots.


What about NB LLC change it or No ?!


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> What about NB LLC change it or No ?!


There are mixed opinions on that.

I haven't touched NB LLC on my CPU - it's Regular, yet I have no issues running 2100Mhz with just a little bump on voltage.

If I were you, I would first try to see if my CPU can go 2000 Mhz on NB at all. Don't touch LLC, at least for now. Just do the voltage bumps until it boots then stress test prime95 Blend.

If it can't boot after 4-5 bumps on voltage on 2000Mhz, don't bother going further, instead lower NB to 1900 with default voltage and try again.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> P.S After few PC restarts / BIOS changes back to default settings and back to 4.2GHz Now everything seems Fine


That's typical gigabyte board behavior. I've had to powerdown for 30min or clear cmos just to get default setting back when it gets screwy.

If I were you I'd leave the NB alone, the real world difference is not noticeable but it definitely can effect overclock stability.

Also I wouldn't trust what windows task manager shows your CPU frequency at.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ketcchup*
> 
> Have you guys noticed any chip degradation? I've been running 4.2GHz at 1.43V and recently I have been forced to push it to 1.45V otherwise I get screen freezes


That's not chip degradation. 1.43v is within AMD's own ratings for these chips. Some of them ship as high as 1.45v from the factory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> In Windows max is 3.9GHz
> I did what you tell me just change NB from AUTO to 2000 Without touching anything else.


Not all of these can run the NB at 2000 at stock voltage. You might need to increase the voltage to the NB to make that work. Most can do it with just a little voltage bump. If not, dial it back to 1900 and it will work.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> That's not chip degradation. 1.43v is within AMD's own ratings for these chips. Some of them ship as high as 1.45v from the factory.
> Not all of these can run the NB at 2000 at stock voltage. You might need to increase the voltage to the NB to make that work. Most can do it with just a little voltage bump. If not, dial it back to 1900 and it will work.


But Default is 1800 not 1900 my Board is GB F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1 BIOS F7 Also i put some aluminum heatsinks on VRM
I read in beginning of the tread that people with same mobo need little voltage with BIOS F6
And some say that BIOS F7 change something in Vcore and after that need little bit more voltage than usual !!!


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> But Default is 1800 not 1900 my Board is GB F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1 BIOS F7 Also i put some aluminum heatsinks on VRM
> I read in beginning of the tread that people with same mobo need little voltage with BIOS F6
> And some say that BIOS F7 change something in Vcore and after that need little bit more voltage than usual !!!


He didn't mean to dial it back to default, everyone knows what the default frequency is.
If 2000 doesn't work for you, go to 1900, maybe your chip can't handle more. But test if it can do 2000 first by raising voltage a few times.

I had a GB board inferior to yours and it was ok for me. Don't be scared to experiment a little and do what we recommend you. There are safety features that prevent damage if you don't do unreasonable things.
So far everything that was said here regarding OC is perfectly safe and within specifications.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> He didn't mean to dial it back to default, everyone knows what the default frequency is.
> If 2000 doesn't work for you, go to 1900, maybe your chip can't handle more. But test if it can do 2000 first by raising voltage a few times.
> 
> I had a GB board inferior to yours and it was ok for me. Don't be scared to experiment a little and do what we recommend you. There are safety features that prevent damage if you don't do unreasonable things.
> So far everything that was said here regarding OC is perfectly safe and within specifications.


OK, No Problem
As you can see i trust to you and others.Thats why i make reg. here








Just for few days i learn a lot for OC 860K. Before that i was total noob about OC CPU









Many Thanks for Help Guys


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> But Default is 1800 not 1900 my Board is GB F2A88XM-D3H rev.3.1 BIOS F7 Also i put some aluminum heatsinks on VRM
> I read in beginning of the tread that people with same mobo need little voltage with BIOS F6
> And some say that BIOS F7 change something in Vcore and after that need little bit more voltage than usual !!!


I've used that board before, and if you've heatsinked the VRM's, it should do a pretty good job as long as you don't push it too hard. I know default is 1800, but I've never heard of an 860K that won't go to at least 1900. Even 100 extra MHz gives you better performance, so it's worth doing.

I don't have a D3H around now, so I can't vouch for what the F7 BIOS might do, but if you think it works better with F6, by all means roll back to that. I had to stay on the last pre-Godavari BIOS revision on my board for months because the ones after that hosed overclocking on my chip until they got to version 2502. A lot of this is trial and error. You're performance tuning the system for maximum performance when you overclock, and no two CPU's are alike in what their functional limits are.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I've used that board before, and if you've heatsinked the VRM's, it should do a pretty good job as long as you don't push it too hard. I know default is 1800, but I've never heard of an 860K that won't go to at least 1900. Even 100 extra MHz gives you better performance, so it's worth doing.
> 
> I don't have a D3H around now, so I can't vouch for what the F7 BIOS might do, but if you think it works better with F6, by all means roll back to that. I had to stay on the last pre-Godavari BIOS revision on my board for months because the ones after that hosed overclocking on my chip until they got to version 2502. A lot of this is trial and error. You're performance tuning the system for maximum performance when you overclock, and no two CPU's are alike in what their functional limits are.


My mobo has two revisions 3.0 and 3.1 So for mine which is 3.1 F7 BIOS is recommended !

Now to be sure that i am doing everything correct. first i need to bump NB Voltage with +one (in my case this is NB Core right without touch NBVID Loadline Calibration?!?
And then change CPU NorthBridge Frequency from 1800MHz to 1900MHz ?
This pic are just to see my BIOS settings names:




P.S. What is normal NB 2000MHz temperature and where to watch NB temp. ?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> There are mixed opinions on that.
> 
> I haven't touched NB LLC on my CPU - it's Regular, yet I have no issues running 2100Mhz with just a little bump on voltage.
> 
> If I were you, I would first try to see if my CPU can go 2000 Mhz on NB at all. Don't touch LLC, at least for now. Just do the voltage bumps until it boots then stress test prime95 Blend.
> 
> If it can't boot after 4-5 bumps on voltage on 2000Mhz, don't bother going further, instead lower NB to 1900 with default voltage and try again.


Hi i manage to run NB at 2000MHz with only one bump of voltage +0.006V
AMD Overdrive show that NB VID is 1.1375V

I try few stress test for about 10-15 min. and so far everything seems OK.
Can you tell me Where to watch for NB temperature ?

What is Next step ?!?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hi i manage to run NB at 2000MHz with only one bump of voltage +0.006V
> AMD Overdrive show that NB VID is 1.1375V
> 
> I try few stress test for about 10-15 min. and so far everything seems OK.
> Can you tell me Where to watch for NB temperature ?
> 
> What is Next step ?!?


There is no separate temp reading for CPU NB. Everything CPU related is just normal CPU temperature or thermal margin.

So from that picture I see you have 1600Mhz RAM. Is it by any chance 2400Mhz RAM but you forgot to OC it ?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> There is no separate temp reading for CPU NB. Everything CPU related is just normal CPU temperature or thermal margin.
> 
> So from that picture I see you have 1600Mhz RAM. Is it by any chance 2400Mhz RAM but you forgot to OC it ?


Yes, my RAM is ADATA XPG V.1 1600MHz Black 1.5V
I will be Happy to get 2133MHz if possible. But from what i read about OC RAM is Not easy job at least for me
Here is some review and OC of my RAM http://proclockers.com/reviews/memory/adata-xpg-v10-ddr3-1600-mhz-desktop-memory-review


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Yes, my RAM is ADATA XPG V.1 1600MHz Black 1.5V
> I will be Happy to get 2133MHz if possible. But from what i read about OC RAM is Not easy job at least for me
> Here is some review and OC of my RAM http://proclockers.com/reviews/memory/adata-xpg-v10-ddr3-1600-mhz-desktop-memory-review


Just checking, saw 1600Mhz and your disabled XMP profile and thought maybe you didn't play around with that.

Yeah, OC-ing RAM is a little tricky, luckily you have that link so you can go from there if you wish


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Just checking, saw 1600Mhz and your disabled XMP profile and thought maybe you didn't play around with that.
> 
> Yeah, OC-ing RAM is a little tricky, luckily you have that link so you can go from there if you wish


Ok, i will follow the link. Just one thing about Command rate (tCMD) for me default is 1 / AUTO. In the link guys say that he changed CMD of 1T
So i must change Command rate (tCMD) from AUTO to 1 right ?
Also the other timings he changed is (CAS Latency/ tRCD/ tRP ) 10-11-11 i have one more timing (tRAS) which is on 28 /AUTO Should i touch that timing too ? And Finally voltage change from 1.5V to 1.65V is not too much to damage something ?


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Ok, i will follow the link. Just one thing about Command rate (tCMD) for me default is 1 / AUTO. In the link guys say that he changed CMD of 1T
> So i must change Command rate (tCMD) from AUTO to 1 right ?
> Also the other timings he changed is (CAS Latency/ tRCD/ tRP ) 10-11-11 i have one more timing (tRAS) which is on 28 /AUTO Should i touch that timing too ? And Finally voltage change from 1.5V to 1.65V is not too much to damage something ?


I honestly don't know much about RAM overclocking. You should probably dig more info on OC-ing that kit in the comments of that review or some other place where your RAM is mentioned.

IMO, I think you should have a good airflow in your case if you want to OC that RAM to 1.65v, as increasing voltage increases heat.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Ok, i will follow the link. Just one thing about Command rate (tCMD) for me default is 1 / AUTO. In the link guys say that he changed CMD of 1T
> So i must change Command rate (tCMD) from AUTO to 1 right ?
> Also the other timings he changed is (CAS Latency/ tRCD/ tRP ) 10-11-11 i have one more timing (tRAS) which is on 28 /AUTO Should i touch that timing too ? And Finally voltage change from 1.5V to 1.65V is not too much to damage something ?


Like others have said, RAM overclocking can be tricky. If it was me, I would try a bit more loose timings and not quite 1.65V, at least at first. Try 11-13-13-30 with command rate of 2, and voltage of 1.60, all at 2133 speed. If that works, then maybe you can tighten the timings up a bit, but even that would give you a nice boost for some games. I have some RAM with those timings at 2133 so that's why I would give it a try. Also note that the link above used an Intel system for testing and overclocking, so maybe not all of those results apply to you.

edit: I'm not sure of your motherboard, but I have one cheap one that won't let me pick 1.6V. It's either 1.5 or 1.65. If this is the case for you then you should make the jump to 1.65.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> Like others have said, RAM overclocking can be tricky. If it was me, I would try a bit more loose timings and not quite 1.65V, at least at first. Try 11-13-13-30 with command rate of 2, and voltage of 1.60, all at 2133 speed. If that works, then maybe you can tighten the timings up a bit, but even that would give you a nice boost for some games. I have some RAM with those timings at 2133 so that's why I would give it a try. Also note that the link above used an Intel system for testing and overclocking, so maybe not all of those results apply to you.
> 
> edit: I'm not sure of your motherboard, but I have one cheap one that won't let me pick 1.6V. It's either 1.5 or 1.65. If this is the case for you then you should make the jump to 1.65.


Yes definitely is little bit tricky to OC Ram. Now i put XMP profile of my ram which is 9-9-9-24 before was 11-11-11-28
With XMP ON i notice rise of performance.
I try few different options for OC my RAM, but everyone fail, PC dont even boot. So i think that for my PC is best to bump step by step, not to raise at once. I try to boot at 1.65 2133MHz with 10-11-11 ant AUTO too.But fail
Need to find someone who can Help me step by step with OC RAM
If you can do that, please tell me from where to start. Also my BIOS has many options for OC RAM.
Thanks in advance


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Yes definitely is little bit tricky to OC Ram. Now i put XMP profile of my ram which is 9-9-9-24 before was 11-11-11-28
> With XMP ON i notice rise of performance.
> I try few different options for OC my RAM, but everyone fail, PC dont even boot. So i think that for my PC is best to bump step by step, not to raise at once. I try to boot at 1.65 2133MHz with 10-11-11 ant AUTO too.But fail
> Need to find someone who can Help me step by step with OC RAM
> If you can do that, please tell me from where to start. Also my BIOS has many options for OC RAM.
> Thanks in advance


OK, so if 2133 won't work, then maybe it's just not possible no matter what settings anyone would try. Maybe 1866 is a better and more realistic target.
You could try 1866 speed, 10-11-10-30, command rate 2, and 1.55V. Leave all other settings on Auto. The motherboard and bios will figure them out just fine.
If that doesn't work, then XMP at 1600 is where I would leave it. Nothing wrong with that, and you said you noticed a boost so that's good.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> OK, so if 2133 won't work, then maybe it's just not possible no matter what settings anyone would try. Maybe 1866 is a better and more realistic target.
> You could try 1866 speed, 10-11-10-30, command rate 2, and 1.55V. Leave all other settings on Auto. The motherboard and bios will figure them out just fine.
> If that doesn't work, then XMP at 1600 is where I would leave it. Nothing wrong with that, and you said you noticed a boost so that's good.


No, i cannot confirm that 2133 wont work, i just try at 1.65V with settings that i dont understand at 100%.
And from what i read about OC my RAM to 2133MHz is OK in many cases, but that is on Intel. Also my mobo has its own prefer of RAM








I Need Help to discover what is The Best airflow position for my CPU cooler Arctic Freezer 7 Pro ver.2
For AMD Freezer 7 Pro has only two available position to mount: "C" and "D" ( see the pic.)


My case Zalman T3 dosent have fan on the top of case. It has 1 in front, 1 in the back and two on the rear panel 120mm.
Which is the best position for my case and airflow "C" or "D" ?? to mount the cooler with the fan blowing upwards from above the video card or


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> No, i cannot confirm that 2133 wont work, i just try at 1.65V with settings that i dont understand at 100%.
> And from what i read about OC my RAM to 2133MHz is OK in many cases, but that is on Intel. Also my mobo has its own prefer of RAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I Need Help to discover what is The Best airflow position for my CPU cooler Arctic Freezer 7 Pro ver.2
> For AMD Freezer 7 Pro has only two available position to mount: "C" and "D" ( see the pic.)
> 
> 
> My case Zalman T3 dosent have fan on the top of case. It has 1 in front, 1 in the back and two on the rear panel 120mm.
> Which is the best position for my case and airflow "C" or "D" ?? to mount the cooler with the fan blowing upwards from above the video card or


Too bad about your cooler / case combo. It would be best if you had an option to put a fan on top do draw the heat from mount option "C", but that isn't the case (no pun intended).

Taking all things into consideration, I would do the following with that setup:

1. Put the Cooler on mount option "C".
2. Take the top side fan and make it pull out the air, instead of blowing in.

That way, you have bottom side fan and front fan blowing in cool air, and you have rear exhaust and top side fan taking hot air outside.

If anyone has any better idea, would love to hear it.


----------



## gaster

I think C would be better, but just my guess. It just seems like blowing hot air up would be better instead of blowing the hot air down onto your video card. Neither are ideal, but I know that cooler only mounts up and down, not side to side on AMD.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Too bad about your cooler / case combo. It would be best if you had an option to put a fan on top do draw the heat from mount option "C", but that isn't the case (no pun intended).
> 
> Taking all things into consideration, I would do the following with that setup:
> 
> 1. Put the Cooler on mount option "C".
> 2. Take the top side fan and make it pull out the air, instead of blowing in.
> 
> That way, you have bottom side fan and front fan blowing in cool air, and you have rear exhaust and top side fan taking hot air outside.
> 
> If anyone has any better idea, would love to hear it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I think C would be better, but just my guess. It just seems like blowing hot air up would be better instead of blowing the hot air down onto your video card. Neither are ideal, but I know that cooler only mounts up and down, not side to side on AMD.


OK guys now i will try with "C" position. Will report temp margin later to see if there any difference.
So far i was in "D" position. And max OC that i can get with that position and thermal margin was 4.3Ghz 60/13


----------



## soeras

Same cooler here. Is mounted in "c" position in a Corsair Spec 03 case. No fan installed in top, but just blows through vent holes. OC @4.4 and thermal margin around 20 at full load.
Btw, my OC is done only by raising Turbo Multi. Under load all 4 cores are at 4.4 and has been perfectly stable almost a year.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soeras*
> 
> Same cooler here. Is mounted in "c" position in a Corsair Spec 03 case. No fan installed in top, but just blows through vent holes. OC @4.4 and thermal margin around 20 at full load.
> Btw, my OC is done only by raising Turbo Multi. Under load all 4 cores are at 4.4 and has been perfectly stable almost a year.


Defiantly there is temp drop in position "C" now got thermal margin 65/18 (heavy load) at idle even got 70
Didn't change top side fan to taking hot air outside, because CPU fan in position "C" is very close to video card and cant get fresh air. (see pic.)
In the beginning when i try to OC my 860K i try to use Gigabyte EasyTune program. With that program i got same OC as you with Turbo ON to 4.3/4.4GHz But then i was thinking that OC with Turbo ON is Not Good idea and something is wrong with the program.


----------



## soeras

well, since turbo is a part of this chip, I dont see why not use it. Maybe not "old school" OC, but saves power. Only difference is that instead of the stock 4.0 ghz its now 4.4.
Downside (and this is due to my motherboard with no voltage control): voltage is auto 1,525 when running turbo. But as temps are fine I dont really think of it. And since AMD Overdrive states a max voltage of 1,55 it should be fine (though I dont know how "official" this voltage is for this chip?)

Raising normal multiplier I was able to reach 4.2 stable (voltage 1.4125).


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soeras*
> 
> well, since turbo is a part of this chip, I dont see why not use it. Maybe not "old school" OC, but saves power. Only difference is that instead of the stock 4.0 ghz its now 4.4.
> Downside (and this is due to my motherboard with no voltage control): voltage is auto 1,525 when running turbo. But as temps are fine I dont really think of it. And since AMD Overdrive states a max voltage of 1,55 it should be fine (though I dont know how "official" this voltage is for this chip?)
> 
> Raising normal multiplier I was able to reach 4.2 stable (voltage 1.4125).


What is your motherboard ?
I got stable 4.2GHz at 1.464V / +0.036V
Now after i change position of CPU Cooler and got better thermal margin i will try to get stable 4.3GHz
In my previous test for 4.3GHz i needed 1.488V or 1.500V / +0.054V +0.060V Vcore
Where you see in AMD Overdrive that max voltage is 1.55 ?

P.S. From math that i make 1.525V for 4.4GHz is OK If i need 1.500V for 4.3GHz then for 4.4GHz must be around 1.525V and even higher !!!
Every +0.006V Vcore bump give +0.012V on the total Voltage


----------



## soeras

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> What is your motherboard ?
> I got stable 4.2GHz at 1.464V / +0.036V
> Now after i change position of CPU Cooler and got better thermal margin i will try to get stable 4.3GHz
> In my previous test for 4.3GHz i needed 1.488V or 1.500V / +0.054V +0.060V Vcore
> Where you see in AMD Overdrive that max voltage is 1.55 ?


I have an MSI A88X-G41 PC Mate. Aside the lack of manual controls of voltage Im pretty happy with it.
(I may have gotten a digit wrong so stock voltage is higher, cant really remember)


----------



## Bobby1776

I make little mod of my Arctic Freezer 7 Pro ver.2
My 860k came with AMD stock cooler. So i use the fan from stock cooler and put it on the back of Freezer 7 Pro
The result is from 5 up to 7 Thermal margin drop under heavy load.
I think that now will have thermal margin room for 4.3GHz OC
What you think about the mod and result guys ?!?





P.S. I use Fan splitter cable "Y" cable and connect two fans in same CPU fan header


----------



## maltamonk

Is that blowing up? If so wouldn't it be directly sucking in the heat from the gpu pcb?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> Is that blowing up? If so wouldn't it be directly sucking in the heat from the gpu pcb?


I am not 100% sure that i understand what you mean by blowing up .
The two CPU fans is sucking air, but i have side 120mm fan near that give fresh (cold) air.
Yes in the pic. looks like that is sucking air from GPU pcb, but in that mount direction i have better thermal margin than before.


----------



## Agent Smith1984

Anyone in here with a mid range to high end GPU tested Hitman DX12 benchmark yet? Curious to see your CPU usages...


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I am not 100% sure that i understand what you mean by blowing up .
> The two CPU fans is sucking air, *but i have side 120mm fan near that give fresh (cold) air.*
> Yes in the pic. looks like that is sucking air from GPU pcb, but in that mount direction i have better thermal margin than before.


in my experience, an exhaust fan is more effective at removing heat than an intake one. It's a thermodynamic principle.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agent Smith1984*
> 
> Anyone in here with a mid range to high end GPU tested Hitman DX12 benchmark yet? Curious to see your CPU usages...


you got me curious but I cant find anything. Closest thing I could find was an FX-6300 with 950 running 1080p ultra/high DX11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXcXX0khvA


----------



## maltamonk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I am not 100% sure that i understand what you mean by blowing up .
> The two CPU fans is sucking air, but i have side 120mm fan near that give fresh (cold) air.
> Yes in the pic. looks like that is sucking air from GPU pcb, but in that mount direction i have better thermal margin than before.


So you're saying that both cpu fans are in push? As in they are pushing against each other?


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maltamonk*
> 
> So you're saying that both cpu fans are in push? As in they are pushing against each other?


My mistake for sure. Yes, the fans was pushing against each other








Now i change second one (AMD CPU) to blow air out. But now have more noise from AMD fan.
What you think ?!?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> I make little mod of my Arctic Freezer 7 Pro ver.2
> My 860k came with AMD stock cooler. So i use the fan from stock cooler and put it on the back of Freezer 7 Pro
> The result is from 5 up to 7 Thermal margin drop under heavy load.
> I think that now will have thermal margin room for 4.3GHz OC
> What you think about the mod and result guys ?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I use Fan splitter cable "Y" cable and connect two fans in same CPU fan header


I wouldn't do a push-pull unless I was using a matched set of fans.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I wouldn't do a push-pull unless I was using a matched set of fans.


OK, what is your suggestion ? What's the best I can do ?!

P.S. Is it normal voltage for 4.3GHz +0.066V / 1.524V ?!?
So far i try to stabilize at 4.3GHz
+0.042V / 1.476V = PC Freeze
+0.048V / 1.488V = PC Freeze
+0.054V / 1.500V = PC Freeze
+0.060V / 1.512V = PC Freeze

And now i am back to 4.2GHz at +0.036V / 1.464V


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> OK, what is your suggestion ? What's the best I can do ?!
> 
> P.S. Is it normal voltage for 4.3GHz +0.066V / 1.524V ?!?
> So far i try to stabilize at 4.3GHz
> +0.042V / 1.476V = PC Freeze
> +0.048V / 1.488V = PC Freeze
> +0.054V / 1.500V = PC Freeze
> +0.060V / 1.512V = PC Freeze
> 
> And now i am back to 4.2GHz at +0.036V / 1.464V


I would get a proper 120 mm or better yet 140 mm tower cooler. That is if your case is wide enough. I also would not bother with push pull. I would only use two fans if I used a dual tower cooler like an NH-D14.


----------



## damric

Money pit, lol.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> I would get a proper 120 mm or better yet 140 mm tower cooler. That is if your case is wide enough. I also would not bother with push pull. I would only use two fans if I used a dual tower cooler like an NH-D14.


If i have money for NH-D14 i will not buy 860k, but something different. My build is budget oriented.
You didnt say anything about voltage:
Is it normal voltage for 4.3GHz +0.066V / 1.524V ?!?
So far i try to stabilize at 4.3GHz
+0.042V / 1.476V = PC Freeze
+0.048V / 1.488V = PC Freeze
+0.054V / 1.500V = PC Freeze
+0.060V / 1.512V = PC Freeze
And now i am back to 4.2GHz at +0.036V / 1.464V

P.S. Can i use that aluminum GPU cooler as VRM cooler/heatsink ?!
It will be put in vertical position


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> If i have money for NH-D14 i will not buy 860k, but something different. My build is budget oriented.
> You didnt say anything about voltage:
> Is it normal voltage for 4.3GHz +0.066V / 1.524V ?!?
> So far i try to stabilize at 4.3GHz
> +0.042V / 1.476V = PC Freeze
> +0.048V / 1.488V = PC Freeze
> +0.054V / 1.500V = PC Freeze
> +0.060V / 1.512V = PC Freeze
> And now i am back to 4.2GHz at +0.036V / 1.464V


no that is definitely high. I suspect there is another area that is contributing to instability.
Did you overclock the NB at all? if so set it to auto
Do you have LLC on the NB enabled? if not set it to medium
Try using only 1 RAM stick with XMP 1600
Try switching SATA from AHCI to IDE mode in BIOS
try these separately and test for stability


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> no that is definitely high. I suspect there is another area that is contributing to instability.
> Did you overclock the NB at all? if so set it to auto
> Do you have LLC on the NB enabled? if not set it to medium
> Try using only 1 RAM stick with XMP 1600
> Try switching SATA from AHCI to IDE mode in BIOS
> try these separately and test for stability


Yes, NB is OC to 2000 with +0.0006V ! NB LLC is on AUTO
Vcore LLC is to Medium. should I try to change it to extreme ?


----------



## drmrlordx

No, don't use extreme. Whichever value on your board corresponds to 60% . . . use that. That's probably Medium.

Some 860ks just don't OC well. There were some really good ones in the first 6-8 months that they were out, and now we seem to be seeing them get worse and worse. Honestly I think it's time for people to move on to the 870k for numerous reasons.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> No, don't use extreme. Whichever value on your board corresponds to 60% . . . use that. That's probably Medium.
> 
> *Some 860ks just don't OC well. There were some really good ones in the first 6-8 months that they were out, and now we seem to be seeing them get worse and worse.* Honestly I think it's time for people to move on to the 870k for numerous reasons.


This exactly. The last batch of 860ks were lucky to hit 4.5GHz with decent voltage. Most times you had to push them to the limit to do so. I had a dog of a chip but I had fun pushing it.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> No, don't use extreme. Whichever value on your board corresponds to 60% . . . use that. That's probably Medium.
> 
> Some 860ks just don't OC well. There were some really good ones in the first 6-8 months that they were out, and now we seem to be seeing them get worse and worse. Honestly I think it's time for people to move on to the 870k for numerous reasons.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This exactly. The last batch of 860ks were lucky to hit 4.5GHz with decent voltage. Most times you had to push them to the limit to do so. I had a dog of a chip but I had fun pushing it.


Yes, mine is made in 2015 june. It seems that new 860K batch are definitely more Voltage hungry
Now i am happy with 4.2GHz - 1.464V +0.036V Vcore NB 2000 +0.0006V


----------



## 7850K

on gigabyte's boards the only LLC setting you need is medium. Im not convinced you have the worst overclocking 860K around though.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> on gigabyte's boards the only LLC setting you need is medium. Im not convince you have the worst overclocking 860K around though.


What about OC with change BCLK (CPU Clock Control ) ?!
Is there any performance with


----------



## drmrlordx

bclk OC on FM2+ is a painful experience. You've got to deal with your PCIe bus and SATA controller being overclocked at the same time (along with RAM and NB, but that's to be expected). If you're using the iGPU, it behaves strangely as well, depending on the bclk. Though you aren't using one on an 860k so . . . nevermind.


----------



## Himo5

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| CPU Overclocks (97-119 x 35-55) from 4300 below 4550: Ram[+/-2133] Gpu[+/-866] NB[+/-1600] |
+-----+-----+----------+------------+------------+------------+----+-----+-----+-------+-----+--------+
| CPU | Apu | F(Cpu | F(Mem | F(GFX | F(NB |Vrm |Xec | Prime95 | SuperPi-1M |
| Ord | Frq | Ratio) | Divider) | Divider) | Freq) |Code|Code +-----+-------+-----+--------+
| | | =CPU *A | =RAM *B | =GPU *C | =NB *D | | | IncV| Watts | IncV| Secs |
+-----+-----+----------+------------+------------+------------+----+-----+-----+-------+-----+--------+
| 1a | 100 | F43=4300 | F2133=2133 | F866=866 | F1600=1600 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 2a | 105 | F41=4305 | F2133=2240 | F821=862 | F1500=1575 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 3a | 98 | F44=4312 | F2133=2090 | F866=849 | F1600=1568 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 4a | 108 | F40=4320 | F1866=2015 | F821=887 | F1500=1620 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 5a | 103 | F42=4326 | F2133=2197 | F821=846 | F1600=1648 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 6a | 111 | F39=4329 | F1866=2071 | F780=866 | F1400=1554 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 6b | 117 | F37=4329 | F1866=2183 | F742=868 | F1400=1638 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 7a | 114 | F38=4332 | F1866=2127 | F742=846 | F1400=1596 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 8a | 101 | F43=4343 | F2133=2154 | F866=875 | F1600=1616 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 9a | 106 | F41=4346 | F2133=2261 | F821=870 | F1500=1590 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 10a | 99 | F44=4356 | F2133=2112 | F866=857 | F1600=1584 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 11a | 109 | F40=4360 | F1866=2034 | F780=850 | F1500=1635 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 12a | 97 | F45=4365 | F2133=2069 | F917=889 | F1600=1552 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 13a | 118 | F37=4366 | F1866=2202 | F742=876 | F1400=1652 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 14a | 104 | F42=4368 | F2133=2218 | F821=854 | F1500=1560 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 14b | 112 | F39=4368 | F1866=2090 | F780=874 | F1400=1568 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 15a | 115 | F38=4370 | F1866=2146 | F742=853 | F1400=1610 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 16a | 102 | F43=4386 | F2133=2176 | F866=883 | F1600=1632 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 17a | 107 | F41=4387 | F1866=1997 | F821=878 | F1500=1605 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 18a | 100 | F44=4400 | F2133=2133 | F866=866 | F1600=1600 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 18b | 110 | F40=4400 | F1866=2053 | F780=858 | F1500=1650 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 19a | 119 | F37=4403 | F1866=2221 | F742=883 | F1300=1547 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 20a | 113 | F39=4407 | F1866=2109 | F780=881 | F1400=1582 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 21a | 116 | F38=4408 | F1866=2165 | F742=861 | F1400=1624 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 22a | 105 | F42=4410 | F2133=2240 | F821=862 | F1500=1575 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 22b | 98 | F45=4410 | F2133=2090 | F866=849 | F1600=1568 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 23a | 108 | F41=4428 | F1866=2015 | F821=887 | F1500=1620 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 24a | 103 | F43=4429 | F2133=2197 | F821=846 | F1600=1648 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 25a | 111 | F40=4440 | F1866=2071 | F780=866 | F1400=1554 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 26a | 101 | F44=4444 | F2133=2154 | F866=875 | F1600=1616 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 27a | 114 | F39=4446 | F1866=2127 | F742=846 | F1400=1596 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 27b | 117 | F38=4446 | F1866=2183 | F742=868 | F1400=1638 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 28a | 106 | F42=4452 | F2133=2261 | F821=870 | F1500=1590 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 29a | 99 | F45=4455 | F2133=2112 | F866=857 | F1600=1584 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 30a | 97 | F46=4462 | F2133=2069 | F917=889 | F1600=1552 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 31a | 109 | F41=4469 | F1866=2034 | F780=850 | F1500=1635 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 32a | 104 | F43=4472 | F2133=2218 | F821=854 | F1500=1560 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 33a | 112 | F40=4480 | F1866=2090 | F780=874 | F1400=1568 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 34a | 118 | F38=4484 | F1866=2202 | F742=876 | F1400=1652 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 35a | 115 | F39=4485 | F1866=2146 | F742=853 | F1400=1610 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 36a | 102 | F44=4488 | F2133=2176 | F866=883 | F1600=1632 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 37a | 107 | F42=4494 | F1866=1997 | F821=878 | F1500=1605 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 38a | 100 | F45=4500 | F2133=2133 | F866=866 | F1600=1600 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 39a | 98 | F46=4508 | F2133=2090 | F866=849 | F1600=1568 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 40a | 110 | F41=4510 | F1866=2053 | F780=858 | F1500=1650 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 41a | 105 | F43=4515 | F2133=2240 | F821=862 | F1500=1575 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 42a | 113 | F40=4520 | F1866=2109 | F780=881 | F1400=1582 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 43a | 119 | F38=4522 | F1866=2221 | F742=883 | F1300=1547 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 44a | 116 | F39=4524 | F1866=2165 | F742=861 | F1400=1624 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 45a | 103 | F44=4532 | F2133=2197 | F821=846 | F1600=1648 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 46a | 108 | F42=4536 | F1866=2015 | F821=887 | F1500=1620 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
| 47a | 101 | F45=4545 | F2133=2154 | F866=875 | F1600=1616 | .. | ... | ... | . | ... | . |
+-----+-----+----------+------------+------------+------------+----+-----+-----+-------+-----+--------+
| Xec Code: X=Did not post; |
| N=SuperPi did not run; |
| S=Prime95 did not run; |
| Pnn=Prime95 ran for nn minutes; |
| Pok=Prime95 ran for 32 minutes without any errors; |
| IncV (Voltage increment) +/-0.00625V (00 = 1.4875V) |
|*A Cpu = Apu * CpuRatio (CpuRatio = 8.0..63.0 x 1.0) (Apu = 90..300) |
|*B Ram = Apu * Mem / 100 (Mem = 1066/1333/1600/1866/2133/2400)  |
|*C Gpu = Apu * Gfx / 100 (Gfx = 445..866/917/975/1040..1950) |
|*D NB = Apu * Nb / 100 (Nb = 400..6300 x 100)  |
+---------------------------+-------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+
| VRM Control Setting | L1 | M1 | | | | | | | |
+---------------------------+-------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+
| Cpu Load Line Calibration | Reg | Med | | | | | | | |
| Cpu Current Capability | 100% | 120% | | | | | | | |
| Cpu Power Phase Control | Opt | M=Med | | | | | | | |
| Nb Load Line calibration | Reg | Med | | | | | | | |
| Nb Current Capability | 100% | 110% | | | | | | | |
| Cpu Power Thermal Control | 125°C | 130°C | | | | | | | |
| Cpu Voltage Frequency |A=Dis. |F=320Kz| | | | | | | |
| Cpu Power Duty Control |TProbe |TProbe | | | | | | | |
+---------------------------+-------+-------+--------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+

These are all the overclocks that Bclk OCs allow between 4300 and 4550MHz aiming to keep Ram to around 2133MHz and NB to 1600Mhz - the the GFX choices are to keep the iGPU clock of an APU to around 866MHz.


----------



## drmrlordx

Good table. If FM2+ weren't about to shuffle off the mortal coil, I'd suggest someone coming in to help you to expand that table (or add a second/third one) to add PCIe data to help people get the most PCIe stability out of their bclk OC.


----------



## Himo5

I'm finding more deliberate and powerful use of VRM power controls in the A10-7890K (and therefore the X4-880K as well) giving better access to 4700+ OCs, so there may be more future in FM2+ than might have been thought.

The prog I've written to generate these tables can be uprated as required so if you have any particular item in mind let me know how to generate it and I'll see what I can do.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> bclk OC on FM2+ is a painful experience. You've got to deal with your PCIe bus and SATA controller being overclocked at the same time (along with RAM and NB, but that's to be expected). If you're using the iGPU, it behaves strangely as well, depending on the bclk. Though you aren't using one on an 860k so . . . nevermind.


If you switch to Sata to Ide BLCK OC is OK my old X4 740 @4.4GHz @ 140 Fsb run stable for a half year before I sell it, but from other side X4 860k do not like high FSB








Pcie bus multiplier switch each 33Mhz FSB for example FSB 120mhz can be not stable, but 133-140mhz can be stable.

ASUS A88XM-A max FSB 140 * bios locked
ASUS A88XM-Plus max FSB 150 * bios locked
ASUS A88X CROSSBLADE RANGER FSB not limited by bios can reach around 175Mhz


----------



## drmrlordx

Interesting that you noted that the PCIe bus is on 33 MHz straps. Maybe I should have tried 133 mhz bclk back when my PCIe SATA controller was still working!


----------



## Ace01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> This exactly. The last batch of 860ks were lucky to hit 4.5GHz with decent voltage. Most times you had to push them to the limit to do so. I had a dog of a chip but I had fun pushing it.


That's odd... I bought mine new in December for $65 on a budget build and I'm running 4.4 on stock voltage with headroom left to keep pushing further


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ace01*
> 
> That's odd... I bought mine new in December for $65 on a budget build and I'm running 4.4 on stock voltage with headroom left to keep pushing further


It's the luck of the draw with these. Some of them are fantastic and others are dogs. The Steamroller cores seem to be very inconsistent in what they will do as far as overclocking goes.

I'm sorely tempted to pick up an 870 or 880 and kick the tires on it myself. My 860 can run at 4.5 but needs more than 1.5v to do it, and it runs hot. The Godavaris are the best thing that's probably ever going to come for FM2+, so it might be worth a shot.


----------



## The Stilt

There are no PCI-E straps as there is only a single clock input in APUs (aside from the 14/25MHz crystal reference), which is REFCLK / BCLK. Because of that BCLK == PCI-E, no exception made.


----------



## speedy22

880k in test :

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/72286-amd-athlon-x4-880k-review.html

lol the voltage for 4.6ghz









exactly as what i expected, only a speed bump


----------



## drmrlordx

What a lousy sample that was. 1.6v for 4.65 GHz?


----------



## Himo5

I think the 880K and 7890K need more precise handling of the VRM Power Controls. I haven't worked out the details yet but this validation of 4700MHz using medium settings for LLC etc. shows that there is a higher OC ceiling than was initially thought.


----------



## YBS1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> What a lousy sample that was. 1.6v for 4.65 GHz?


No kidding, it's almost like the samples we've seen so far are actually a regression. I was entertaining the idea of picking up an 880K for kicks and giggles, thinking losing the iGPU and being Godavari I may eek a bit more out of it than my 7850K. So far though they haven't clocked as high and require a good spot more voltage than mine. Though I'm probably near my itx board's limits anyway at 4.7GHz.


----------



## The Stilt

IMO any Steamroller silicon requiring >= 1.475V for 4.7GHz at least bench stable, on a proper motherboard is utter garbage. At those clocks and voltages the power consumption is pretty much equal to a FX-8370 power consumption.


----------



## Himo5

By your command.


----------



## The Stilt

I wonder if AMD has actually used sTIM on those Athlon "Godavaris", or went with the standard TIM instead. Someone with a 7860K, 7870K, 7880K or 7890K and a 870K or 880K Athlon and a letter scale could check? If the Athlons are infact not using the sTIM they should be couple grams lighter than the A10-series APUs (due the sTIM, additional epoxy on SMDs and the difference in heatspreadrer).

There should be no other reason for the "Godavari" Athlons to clock worse than the APUs.


----------



## Himo5

Asus have just issued new BIOS versions for the A88X-Pro(2603) and the Crossblade Ranger(1802) and on the A10-7890K - and I should think, the 880K, too - that has not only removed the 4650MHz wall but lowered the voltages required to reach OCs below 4700MHz. It is still necessary to use VRM Power Control settings to get stable above 4700MHz, but the voltages required are ten or more increments lower.


----------



## drmrlordx

Hmm, the plot thickens.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Asus have just issued new BIOS versions for the A88X-Pro(2603) and the Crossblade Ranger(1802) and on the A10-7890K - and I should think, the 880K, too - that has not only removed the 4650MHz wall but lowered the voltages required to reach OCs below 4700MHz. It is still necessary to use VRM Power Control settings to get stable above 4700MHz, but the voltages required are ten or more increments lower.


Keep us posted as to how high did you manage to clock it. I'm really curious.


----------



## Himo5

I will probably get nowhere near it, but it would be nice to get it into the 1GHz Club - if only on a suicide run.


----------



## Jack13

That's nice... but how stable is it? I've had mine at 4.7 and under 1.5V. It ran through the Performance Test 8(?) benchmark and showed good gains, but would crash five seconds into a prime95 run. No amount of sane voltage would prevent that on mine.


----------



## Himo5

Using BIOS 2603 on an Asus A88X-Pro, downloaded today, I did a 32 minute run in Prime95 at [email protected] (47x100;Ram:2133;Gfx:866) I was using a Medium VRM Power Control setting (M1 as specified in the table a few posts back) giving maximum Voltage 1.536V - Wattage 97.6.

After the run I stepped the voltage down to 1.45625V to run SuperPi-1M at 4.7GHz in 16.325 seconds.

Strangely enough that was a little disappointing, my best score in SuperPi-1M so far was 15.766 seconds at 4662MHz (111x42) using the default VRM settings; the key to it was the GFX setting of 780MHz - which makes me suspect that the effect of GPU on CPU power consumption depends more on the BIOS setting than on the actual GPU clock speed.


----------



## The Stilt

One of the reasons I don't recommend overclocking the iGPU on APUs, is the fact that they cannot be overclocked without breaking the power management using public tools or bios. As soon as you set the GPU frequency manually either from the bios or from AOD, you will lose all of the power management features and even the ability to idle properly.

On A10-7870K for example, by default the GPU has five different DPMs (performance states):

DPM0 - 354.55MHz - 1.06250V
DPM1 - 520.00MHz - 1.10000V
DPM2 - 650.00MHz - 1.16250V
DPM3 - 780.00MHz - 1.23750V
DPM4 - 866.67MHz - 1.27500V

These states will be used on demand and power budget basis, but generally you can consider DPM0 to be your idle state and DPM4 to be your 3D state.

If you adjust the GPU clocks from the bios or through AOD you will lose DPM0 - DPM3 immediately. For example if you set the GPU frequency to 975MHz from the bios, the GPU will run at 975MHz / 1.27500V all the time, even at idle. Also if you set NB voltage offset to e.g 0.100V from the bios, you UNB (CNB & GNB) will be fed 1.37500V all of the time. In most cases the bios is completely unaware of the GNB voltage which will override the CNB VID request when the GPU is stressed. So if the bios is displaying anything less than 1.27500V as the default NB voltage on 7870K then it is not displaying the voltages properly.

I measured around 17.4% increase in the idle power consumption from setting the iGPU frequency manually in the bios, at stock clocks (without even increasing the GPU frequency from stock).


----------



## drmrlordx

I would hazard to guess that most of the folks overclocking their iGPUs do not care much for idle power states if it means getting more performance when not idle. But you never know, they might miss that feature . . .


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Asus have just issued new BIOS versions for the A88X-Pro(2603) and the Crossblade Ranger(1802) and on the A10-7890K - and I should think, the 880K, too - that has not only removed the 4650MHz wall but lowered the voltages required to reach OCs below 4700MHz. It is still necessary to use VRM Power Control settings to get stable above 4700MHz, but the voltages required are ten or more increments lower.


Great. I've got an 870K on the way that should be here middle of the week (I got an 870 since no one seems to have tried that one), and I'll report on how it fares with the A88X-Pro once it arrives.


----------



## devl547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> you will lose all of the power management features and even the ability to idle properly.


So my GA-F2A88XN-Wifi is completely broken, as IS switching frequencies and voltage in idle/2d/uvd/3d states on 7850k with 1108 IGP OC.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devl547*
> 
> So my GA-F2A88XN-Wifi is completely broken, as IS switching frequencies and voltage in idle/2d/uvd/3d states on 7850k with 1108 IGP OC.


Post some screenshots.


----------



## devl547

Idle:



Video playback on UVD:



OpenCL workload:



Sometimes there is a ~550mhz state, but I cannot catch it on screeny.


----------



## The Stilt

Have you overclocked the GPU from the bios or with AOD?


----------



## Feimitsu

Have the same behaviour on my FM2A88X-ITX. Overclocking iGPU from BIOS doesn't break power savings.


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> Have the same behaviour on my FM2A88X-ITX. Overclocking iGPU from BIOS doesn't break power savings.


+1, I have the same mobo:



The only think that doesn't go to a lower P-state when I set it manually, is the NB clock. All the P-states different from NB_P0 dissapears (from the MSRTweaker).


----------



## devl547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Have you overclocked the GPU from the bios or with AOD?


Bios and voltage offset. And yes, AOD breaks the power management.


----------



## Ktech

Maybe the thread title should be changed to include the 870/880k?

Anyway, ordered an 880K with an Asrock A88x-G/3.1 and 8GBs of 2400. Kinda excited... you know... new toys an all.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ktech*
> 
> Maybe the thread title should be changed to include the 870/880k?
> 
> Anyway, ordered an 880K with an Asrock A88x-G/3.1 and 8GBs of 2400. Kinda excited... you know... new toys an all.


Let us know how it goes once you have the chance to kick the tires on it.

My new 870K is supposed to arrive tomorrow, but it might be a day or two before I can install it.


----------



## Himo5

Just to let you know I've tested my A10-7870K on the new 1802 BIOS for Crossblade Ranger and I didn't see any effect on the way it overclocks. If that will hold good for your 870K and the Asus A88X-Pro, it looks like we'll be avoiding any of the Kaveri-to-Godavari BIOS update mallarkey that we had last year.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Let us know how it goes once you have the chance to kick the tires on it.
> 
> My new 870K is supposed to arrive tomorrow, but it might be a day or two before I can install it.


The 870k seems to be a general improvement, I tested one a few pages back. Much better temps at much higher voltages, I'm pretty sure they are soldered compared to the 860k.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> The 870k seems to be a general improvement, I tested one a few pages back. Much better temps at much higher voltages, I'm pretty sure they are soldered compared to the 860k.


I saw that. It was one of the reasons i picked it up. My 860 runs very hot by the standards of these chips. I had to use the Megahalems in push-pull to get it to reach 4.5 GHz, and even then it runs very close to its thermal margin.

I suspect that 870's and 880's are identical except that 880's tested for higher leakage, but we'll see. And part of it is just for my own curiosity; we have quite a few data points for the 880 now but not many for the 870.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I saw that. It was one of the reasons i picked it up. My 860 runs very hot by the standards of these chips. I had to use the Megahalems in push-pull to get it to reach 4.5 GHz, and even then it runs very close to its thermal margin.
> 
> I suspect that 870's and 880's are identical except that 880's tested for higher leakage, but we'll see. And part of it is just for my own curiosity; we have quite a few data points for the 880 now but not many for the 870.


Yeah, hopefully its a good upgrade for you in the thermals department.


----------



## jsc1973

Delivery man just arrived. If I have time, I'll install this tonight after I get back from work.


----------



## drmrlordx

Word. Don't forget to do some undervolt tests as well, if you have the time.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Word. Don't forget to do some undervolt tests as well, if you have the time.


I don't usually do that, but if there's interest in seeing it, I will see how it does in that regard.


----------



## jsc1973

The 870K is up and running now. The chip is about as new as you can expect for a CPU in the States, 2016 Week 4 (January 25-31). This surprises me, because I figured 870's would have been manufactured well back into 2015 if not actually sold then. We know that some were available in China and Japan last December.



It has a surprisingly high default vcore of 1.475v. I'll be shocked if it actually needs that much to run at stock, though.



So far, I've just booted into Windows at default settings and run Geekbench on it, and it performs exactly like an 860K would at these settings, so no shock there. I'll kick the tires on it a little more before I have to head to work this evening. Stay tuned, because I'm sure I'll be playing with it off and on for a while.


----------



## InfamousTR

+1 for undervolting, I'd be surprised if it needs even 1.3V for 3.9 GHz


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InfamousTR*
> 
> +1 for undervolting, I'd be surprised if it needs even 1.3V for 3.9 GHz


3.1GHz 1.025V (actual 0.984V-1V)
3.2GHz 1.05V (actual 0.984V-1V)
3.3GHz 1.075V (actual 1.008V-1.016V)
3.4GHz 1.1V (actual 1.024V-1.040V)
3.5GHz 1.1V (actual 1.024V-1.040V)
3.6GHz 1.125V (actual 1.048V-1.072V)
3.7GHz 1.15V (actual 1.064V-1.104V)
3.8GHz 1.175V (actual 1.104V-1.120V)
3.9GHz 1.2V
4.0GHz 1.225V

here's the voltage table for my 7870K (870K without active GPU)

Go figure..


----------



## jsc1973

I'm going for the OC first. I started by setting the CPU at 4.5 GHz and leaving everything else at stock. The system would boot into Mint and seemed to be fine, but wouldn't boot Win10. I tried again by hard-setting the vcore at 1.5v (still less than the 1.5325 that the 860K needed) and booted into Windows fine. The system passed a run of IBT, and check out the thermal margins this thing is registering...holy crap! I was down in the single digits if I did this on the 860K.



Now I guess I see if it can work the same wonders on Prime.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Feimitsu*
> 
> 3.1GHz 1.025V (actual 0.984V-1V)
> 3.2GHz 1.05V (actual 0.984V-1V)
> 3.3GHz 1.075V (actual 1.008V-1.016V)
> 3.4GHz 1.1V (actual 1.024V-1.040V)
> 3.5GHz 1.1V (actual 1.024V-1.040V)
> 3.6GHz 1.125V (actual 1.048V-1.072V)
> 3.7GHz 1.15V (actual 1.064V-1.104V)
> 3.8GHz 1.175V (actual 1.104V-1.120V)
> 3.9GHz 1.2V
> 4.0GHz 1.225V
> 
> here's the voltage table for my 7870K (870K without active GPU)
> 
> Go figure..


what a magic chip, those look like haswell voltages
how many hours P95?


----------



## jsc1973

4.5 GHz at 1.5v default LLC isn't quite stable. Three of four cores seem to hack it in Prime, but the third one quit after just two minutes. Looks like it needs a little more vcore or LLC to do it. Thermals still great, though.



I think I'll revisit this later on and dial it back now and see what it can do undervolted. I'll try 1.25v for 3.9 and see what transpires. (Update: booted into Win10 at 3.9 GHz with 1.25v with no problem at all. Running Prime now to see if it's stable.)

Update 2: Wasn't prime stable at 1.225v LLC with LLC on high. The third core quit after 17 minutes. I turned the LLC to max, giving it an effective voltage of 1.256v, and it's been prime stable for 51 minutes and counting. I think that third core is not as strong as the other three, and more susceptible to vdroop. That's probably why it was set for 1.475 at default to begin with. Thermal margin after 51 minutes of Prime is exactly 50C. The 870K, or at least this one, does appear to have low leakage.

Update 3: Still happily priming away. Now at 76 minutes, all four cores stable, vcore 1.248-1.256 per CPU-Z. Thermal margin has increased to 51C. I was even able to stream a HD stream off MLB.tv for 25 minutes while running P95 and it was no problem at all.


----------



## Feimitsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> what a magic chip, those look like haswell voltages
> how many hours P95?


BOINC (multiple projects) 24/7 + gaming

I just found the limit voltage at every 100MHz step that was crashing during stress test (Overdrive or P95) and bumped it up one or two notches


----------



## The Stilt

Pretty sad to see those Athlon Godavari's to be such garbage







They´re cheap but there shouldn't be any reason for them to clock so badly.


----------



## drmrlordx

Wait, what LLC setting are you using that's causing your vcore to leap to 1.48v @ load? Also, have you done any power tests on the CPU to compare it to your 860k at similar clockspeeds? If the leakage current is really that low, even exceptionally high voltages may not amount to a whole lot of power draw.


----------



## Himo5

I now have a 32min run of Prime95 at 4800MHz with the A10-7890K but it requires 1.632V.

I also have some sample runs of SuperPi-1M at 4900MHz giving 15.675secs which need exploring between 1.58125V and the AISuite Caution point at 1.675V.

Anything at 5GHz or above lies beyond that caution point but I hope the 5100MHz required to get into the 1GHz Club lies below the 1.75V warning point.

All these Ocs above 4700Mhz require at least a Medium VRM Power Control setting and - oddly - the PowerNow/C6/CPB settings must all be enabled.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Wait, what LLC setting are you using that's causing your vcore to leap to 1.48v @ load? Also, have you done any power tests on the CPU to compare it to your 860k at similar clockspeeds? If the leakage current is really that low, even exceptionally high voltages may not amount to a whole lot of power draw.


The voltage was set at 1.500 with LLC on auto for that run. I only had a few hours to play with it before I had to go to work this evening, and I was just trying different scenarios to see what it would do.

I've been trying a few other settings tonight. Shockingly, this attempt at a suicide run at 4.7 was actually stable, at least on several runs of IBT:



That was done with the CPU at 1.55v with LLC on Extreme settings. The 860K wouldn't even boot if I tried something like that. I suspect it will go 4.7 with less than that insane voltage, but I wanted to see if it would hit that number at all, and what the thermals would be like. Thermal margin on the 860K at 4.5 was 6-8C using 1.5325v (1.512 effective), but this does better than that at 4.7 with the voltage way over 1.6. CPU-Z got it at 1.616, but it went as high as 1.656 during the test.

Incidentally, the temperature inside the case increased from 27C to 28C during that whole crazy run. The 860K would push it up several degrees under a heavy load.

Here's the CPU-Z validation: http://valid.x86.fr/ze2eis

Going back to what I was doing earlier today, the chip eventually crapped out in both Prime (about 80 minutes in) and in IBT (after 43 passes) running at 3.9 GHz on just 1.25v. I'll try it at 1.275 and 1.3 later on. It shouldn't need much more to be stable.

If there's any settings someone would like me to try with this chip, let me know.


----------



## jsc1973

This is what I've tried so far; I'm just trying to find the chip's limits right now. The system is the same one in the sig, with the 870K in place of the 860. The NB is set at 2 GHz and 1.225v in the BIOS for all of these runs, the same settings I was using with the 860.

4.7 GHz, 1.550v, LLC Extreme (effective 1.61-1.65 under load), passed 10 runs of IBT with thermal margin about 13C.

4.5 GHz, 1.500v, LLC Auto (effective 1.48v), passed 10 runs of IBT, failed P95 on third core after just two minutes, but others kept going until I stopped it after 20 minutes or so. Thermal margin stayed over 30C throughout.

4.3 GHz, 1.3875v, LLC Auto, failed and BSOD in IBT on third pass. Booted fine but obviously not stable.

3.9 GHz, 1.225v, LLC High, failed P95 on third core in 17 minutes. Thermal margin well over 50C at all times.

3.9 GHz, 1.225v, LLC Extreme (1.256 effective), seemed functionally stable, even heavy multitasking with P95 in the background, but failed on fourth core after 81 minutes. Later tested with IBT and got a failure after 43 passes.

Trying to find its limits in undervolting right now. I've got it at 3.9 GHz with 1.275v, LLC Auto (1.264 effective), and I'll be testing it for stability shortly. (Update: just passed 50 runs of IBT with no issues at these settings, thermal margin between 51-53C the entire time, case temp never topped 29C (27 ambient) at any time.)
(Update 2: It's passed P95 for 98 minutes and counting as well. I'm almost certain the chip is fully stable at these settings, but I'll let it run a while longer.)
(Last update: I've let it run P95 for two hours plus (122 mins exactly) and it's been fine. By my standards, this thing is stable. Thermal margin never dropped under 50.1C. Case temp never went over 29C, and power draw for the system was at 121W throughout. *So there's the answer to this particular 870K undervolted--it maintains stock stability at 1.275v, a full two-tenths under its default.* And now it's 3:52 a.m. and I'm going to bed.)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Also, have you done any power tests on the CPU to compare it to your 860k at similar clockspeeds? If the leakage current is really that low, even exceptionally high voltages may not amount to a whole lot of power draw.


The entire system, plus the monitor, is pulling 121W right now under full load at 3.9 GHz and 1.275v on the CPU. The 860K at stock settings pulled 143 under the same load conditions.


----------



## jsc1973

The chip does 4.7 GHz stable at a setting of 1.625v with default LLC, which delivers effective voltage in the range of 1.608-1.616v. I was able to complete a run of 3DMark without issue, with a Fire Strike Physics score of 5638. The 860K at 4.5 GHz scored 5424 on the same version of the test.

Cinebench 11.5 also ran fine, and scaled as one might expect:


Passmark, like Geekbench, seems to get hosed a bit by Windows 10 for me. I don't score as well in some of the test as I did under Win 7. In Passmark, I have two scores lower in Win10 at 4.7 than I had with Win7 and the 860K at 4.5:

Passmark 860K at 4.5 GHz (7/22/2015)

CPU Mark 6891
Integer 13350
FP Math 5215
Prime 15.1
SSE 178.2
Compression 8909
Encryption 1075
Physics 308.3
Sorting 5077
Single Thread 1955

Passmark 870K at 4.7 GHz (4/22/2016)

CPU Mark 7121
Integer 13441
FP Math 5183
Prime 16.6
SSE 187.4
Compression 9285
Encryption 1119
Physics 327.6
Sorting 5287
Single Thread 1909


----------



## The Stilt

Passmark is garbage. If you want to test the CPU performance in highly optimized integer workload, use X264 (standalone preferred). For floating point performance use X265 (standalone preferred here too).


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Passmark is garbage. If you want to test the CPU performance in highly optimized integer workload, use X264 (standalone preferred). For floating point performance use X265 (standalone preferred here too).


No doubt that Passmark is a highly unrealistic benchmark in relation to typical real-world use, but I do have results from both the 860 and 870 for it, so I provided them, along with the most important 3DMark score. Until now, I've never had the capability of running Kaveri/Godavari benchmarks at 4.7 GHz, because the 860 couldn't go that high. Just to make it to 4.5, the 860K took nearly every bit of the cooling capability of a CPU cooler that was designed to handle overclocked i7-920's.

Anyway, I think most people know what the CPU performance of any Steamroller quad is. I'm more interested in seeing what this chip is capable of in terms of clockspeed and what voltage it requires to reach a certain level, and how it compares to an 860 and an 880. We didn't have any data points for an 870, and now we do.


----------



## drmrlordx

Interesting power draw numbers. We need to throw out all our previous notions of what are acceptable voltage levels for these chips, and focus on overall power draw instead. 1.6v may not be as "insane" for these most-recent GV-A1 chips as previously thought.

Also, stick to medium LLC whenever possible. Extreme will cause your chip to drop out at a lower OC.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Interesting power draw numbers. We need to throw out all our previous notions of what are acceptable voltage levels for these chips, and focus on overall power draw instead. 1.6v may not be as "insane" for these most-recent GV-A1 chips as previously thought.
> 
> Also, stick to medium LLC whenever possible. Extreme will cause your chip to drop out at a lower OC.


There was no point in it anyway, as it turned out. 1.62 at auto LLC did the job fine. Later on, I'll dial it back and see what the minimum that will do 4.7 stable is. Watching the Red Sox game and monitoring the sports copy desk for the newspaper from my recliner at home right now.


----------



## drmrlordx

Go sawx!

Btw you got power draw numbers for your chip @ 4.7 GHz, 1.62v?

And what Prime95 settings, if any, are you using? I use the Stilt's recommended: custom, in-place FFTs, 768k min 768k max


----------



## Ktech

Welp, everything but the CPU is here... damnit.



Specs:

Athlon X4 880K (monday!)
Hyper X 8GBs DDR3 2400
Asrock A88M-G/3.1
ATI 6450 1GB (waitin on the new polaris cards)
Samsung 850 EVO 500GB
Samsung DVD burner
Rosewill Valens 500w
Fractal Design 1500
3x Rosewill Hyperborea (Decent fans)

Observations so far. The case does decent cable management but, I HIGHLY recommend a modular PSU for this case. Not enough room behind the case for the cables and the case side panels don't have lips on the top or bottom to grab the case (which causes it to bow out slightly). Just the front.. kinda acts like a hinge.

Further will be posted once I receive the CPU monday.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> Go sawx!
> 
> Btw you got power draw numbers for your chip @ 4.7 GHz, 1.62v?
> 
> And what Prime95 settings, if any, are you using? I use the Stilt's recommended: custom, in-place FFTs, 768k min 768k max


I didn't even check the power draw when I was running at those settings, but I can always boot back to them and let you know. I'm actually running at the low-power settings I discovered and booted into Linux at the moment. I only run the big OC's when I need to these days.

(Update: 209W. That overclock sends the power draw through the roof. I would guess that the TDP is something like 150W for the CPU alone. The Megahalems seems to be able to handle it, though.)

With Prime, I just use the standard Blend settings and let 'er rip. I'm not really a big fan of Prime, anyway. It's a completely unrealistic usage scenario unless you're actually looking for prime numbers. I use it to test stability, but to be honest, back when I was seriously gaming, I could care less if it was Prime stable or not as long as I could play on it. I'd just dial it back to stable settings when I was done.


----------



## drmrlordx

209W? Toasty! What's the efficiency of that Fractal Design PSU? Also, do you know the relative power draw of your 2Tb HDD and your DVD-RW?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> 209W? Toasty! What's the efficiency of that Fractal Design PSU? Also, do you know the relative power draw of your 2Tb HDD and your DVD-RW?


A Fractal Newton R3? Off the charts. 80 Plus Platinum and then some: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=339. The fan on it basically never comes on with a system this low-powered. I got it NIB on the swaplist here for 50 cents on the dollar.









I have no idea what the other components are drawing. At a guess, I'm pretty sure that the 870K at those overclocked settings was pulling about 150W under load.


----------



## jsc1973

Here's something about the Godavari that I definitely like. On the 860K I had, the offset voltage mode never worked properly for me at any setting. Everything I did with it had to be done with manual voltage to tweak everything, no matter what BIOS revision I tried. This chip, for whatever reason, doesn't have the same problem. I set the offset for -0.1875 in the BIOS and everything works great:



The way I was having to set it before, the lowest power state it could ever reach was just below 1v, something like 0.968 or thereabouts. Being able to push the limits is still fun, but unless I'm doing something CPU-intensive, I typically try to keep the PC running noise-free and at minimum power draw.

As far as overclocking, I strongly suspect that anyone can reach 880K levels on an ordinary 860K if they're willing to delid the CPU and replace the TIM with some Coolaboratory Liquid Pro. I may try the experiment myself at some point if I don't end up passing the 860K on to a friend. I have several who would love it.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> A Fractal Newton R3? Off the charts. 80 Plus Platinum and then some: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=339. The fan on it basically never comes on with a system this low-powered. I got it NIB on the swaplist here for 50 cents on the dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what the other components are drawing. At a guess, I'm pretty sure that the 870K at those overclocked settings was pulling about 150W under load.


According to the review, your PSU would have been at ~90% efficiency. So if you're pulling 209W at the wall, you're looking at ~188W DC power draw from the supply.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> According to the review, your PSU would have been at ~90% efficiency. So if you're pulling 209W at the wall, you're looking at ~188W DC power draw from the supply.


About right.

The other components wouldn't draw all that much. There's two SSD's and a mobile HDD installed. The other drive is external. Other than that, there's the GPU (running in low-power mode), a TV card, a PCIe parallel port card, a memory card reader and the optical drive, and the 16GB of RAM.

I should have checked it running 3DMark and not just with Prime, and seen what the numbers would look like with the CPU at 4.7 and a power-hog HD 6970 running full-tilt. Might have pulled 400 then.


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Passmark is garbage. If you want to test the CPU performance in highly optimized integer workload, use X264 (standalone preferred). For floating point performance use X265 (standalone preferred here too).


I got anser from czech technic guy to the this post:
_Hello, I noticed that you sometime give x265 as an example of a program that uses floating point calculations, while x264 supposedly uses integer ones. For example here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1514009/athl ... t_25097496

As far as I know, that is not correct. x265 is actually partially derived from x264, but even if that was not the case, the nature of their code is very similar and they absolutely both use almost no floating point calculation, both are integer tasks. Of course, not scalar integer but SIMD integer.
_

all message here: http://forum.cnews.cz/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1774&start=4350#p352538


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlanK3r*
> 
> I got anser from czech technic guy to the this post:
> _Hello, I noticed that you sometime give x265 as an example of a program that uses floating point calculations, while x264 supposedly uses integer ones. For example here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1514009/athl ... t_25097496
> 
> As far as I know, that is not correct. x265 is actually partially derived from x264, but even if that was not the case, the nature of their code is very similar and they absolutely both use almost no floating point calculation, both are integer tasks. Of course, not scalar integer but SIMD integer.
> _
> 
> all message here: http://forum.cnews.cz/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1774&start=4350#p352538


In that case it is pretty sad to see that Intel is >90% ahead in the integer IPC too. Haswell / Broadwell / Skylake have 85-9x% higher ST IPC in X265 than Piledriver for example. I thought that was only the case with FP


----------



## FlanK3r

Quote from him







:

_It is integer, but because the code uses SIMD instructions, it gets executed in the shared FPU (which on AMD archs really means FPU and integer-vector/SIMD unit), thus x264/x265 face similar performance penalties as floating point programs.

In that light it is actually interesting that x264 was/is construction cores' strong point (when comparing HT quadcores with FX-8xxx). In the case of x265, Intel's advantage is increased by having full-speed AVX2._


----------



## The Stilt

Re-tested Steamroller vs. Haswell using the newest X265 build (1.9+141), compiled using GCC 5.30 x86-64 w/ YASM 1.3.0.

Preset = Medium, RC = CRF 16.0, ME = 3 (Star)
Input = YUV 420P8 1920x1080, 30fps

In X265 Haswell has 87.3% higher IPC than Steamroller. Removing the theoretical CMT penalty on Steamroller doesn't improve the performance at all. In X265 Excavator is just ~1% faster than Steamroller at the same frequency, unless AVX2 is disabled by modifying the source code of the program. AVX2 can be disabled by using ASM syntax too, however in that case other instruction sets will be lost too. With AVX2 disabled Excavator is <5% faster than Steamroller.

Since Zen is "likely" to have similar restrictions as the 15h family, I have no choice but to go with Broadwell-E...


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Re-tested Steamroller vs. Haswell using the newest X265 build (1.9+141), compiled using GCC 5.30 x86-64 w/ YASM 1.3.0.
> 
> Preset = Medium, RC = CRF 16.0, ME = 3 (Star)
> Input = YUV 420P8 1920x1080, 30fps
> 
> In X265 Haswell has 87.3% higher IPC than Steamroller. Removing the theoretical CMT penalty on Steamroller doesn't improve the performance at all. In X265 Excavator is just ~1% faster than Steamroller at the same frequency, unless AVX2 is disabled by modifying the source code of the program. AVX2 can be disabled by using ASM syntax too, however in that case other instruction sets will be lost too. With AVX2 disabled Excavator is <5% faster than Steamroller.
> 
> Since Zen is "likely" to have similar restrictions as the 15h family, I have no choice but to go with Broadwell-E...


I have heard that Zen should rival Haswell IPC? I guess that's a bit ambitious.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tone1492*
> 
> I have heard that Zen should rival Haswell IPC? I guess that's a bit ambitious.


I expect the average IPC to be pretty well matched with Ivy Bridge. In some workloads it might be able to match Haswell, but expecting it to always match Haswell / Broadwell / Skylake / Kaby Lake is way too wishful thinking.


----------



## damric

So I rebuilt a secondary rig yesterday with my 860K. I never realized how hot that thing gets until I put an old CNPS 8000 on that thing. Just turning off C&Q was enough to make the thing overheat, totally overwhelming the heatsink. The CNPS 8000 is similar to the 125W AMD heatpipe coolers. I had to put my Hyper T4 on there and that did the trick. When I ran the 860K in my main rig it was with a TPC 612 which was overkill so I guess I really never noticed even when clocking 4.5GHz at 1.6v.


----------



## tone1492

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I expect the average IPC to be pretty well matched with Ivy Bridge. In some workloads it might be able to match Haswell, but expecting it to always match Haswell / Broadwell / Skylake / Kaby Lake is way too wishful thinking.


Ivy Bridge that's disappointing, but if AMD can sell an 8 threaded CPU with an Ivy Bridge comparable IPC for a competitive price that might not be a bad choice.


----------



## Alastair

I'm getting an 860K for a back up rig. Anyone have any ideas on what we can expect I terms of OC'ing ability?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> I'm getting an 860K for a back up rig. Anyone have any ideas on what we can expect I terms of OC'ing ability?


4.2GHz for a bad clocker, 4.5GHz for a very good clocker. 2GHz seems common for CPU-NB, and 2400CL9 for RAM.


----------



## Scorpion49

Anyone play world of warships on Kaveri and could tell me how it plays? Thinking about picking up another chip for a budget build for a friend rather than a 6300, he only plays that game but I never tried it when I had any of mine still.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Anyone play world of warships on Kaveri and could tell me how it plays? Thinking about picking up another chip for a budget build for a friend rather than a 6300, he only plays that game but I never tried it when I had any of mine still.


Looks like pretty solid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U0crpLuUEE


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Looks like pretty solid
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U0crpLuUEE


Yeah not bad, the game has been updated a lot since that video as well. I think we'll give it a shot, he has a GTX 660 already and wants a CPU/Board/RAM combo under $200 to upgrade his core 2 duo on a non-overclockable mATX board.


----------



## syl1979

I just tried World of warship. Keeps 60 fps with my 4.2 overclock

CPU usage is very low... Around 45% average and well balanced over cores


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I just tried World of warship. Keeps 60 fps with my 4.2 overclock
> 
> CPU usage is very low... Around 45% average and well balanced over cores


Cool thanks for checking. I'll definitely be going with either the 860 or 870.


----------



## syl1979

I would go with 870K.

The thermal behavior will be much better for only a little bit more money.

However until now the extra needed for 880K is not acceptable.


----------



## Piccolo55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I would go with 870K.
> 
> The thermal behavior will be much better for only a little bit more money.
> 
> However until now the extra needed for 880K is not acceptable.


I dont see a870k listing but do for a 880k http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-19-113-408&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-2015Promo-_-CategoryPages-_-DynamicAd&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjIy5BRClh8m_9Zu64d8BEiQAtZsQf1hLpHviKZc8lzTNGrqWiw1PmPWctZRNx6bTKXOtNFUaAmZC8P8HAQ


----------



## Scorpion49

Life would have been easier if I just kept the 860 and 870 I already had if I knew I was going to need them again, could have just sold it to him directly lol.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Piccolo55*
> 
> I dont see a870k listing but do for a 880k http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-19-113-408&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-2015Promo-_-CategoryPages-_-DynamicAd&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjIy5BRClh8m_9Zu64d8BEiQAtZsQf1hLpHviKZc8lzTNGrqWiw1PmPWctZRNx6bTKXOtNFUaAmZC8P8HAQ


http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-19-113-409

?


----------



## syl1979

World of warship is quite fun actually, and pleasnt for the eye... Only played World of tanks some years ago....


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I would go with 870K.
> 
> The thermal behavior will be much better for only a little bit more money.
> 
> However until now the extra needed for 880K is not acceptable.


I usually see 870 and 880 at around the same prices. Those Newegg Business prices are too high for both parts.

There's not much difference between the two, based on my experiences with an 870K. I think an 880 might OC a little bit better if you have good cooling. Thermals on the 870 are excellent.


----------



## syl1979

There a difference equivalent to 15$ on my usual online store between 870K and 880K


----------



## VordaVor

Any 870/880k owners that got their chip past 4700 barrier ?

Since I have a crappy overclocker, I'm thinking of ordering a 880k, since the price is equal to a 870k (at site I oder hardware from). I would love better temps from my case, esp since summer is coming.


----------



## Himo5

Someone's pushed an 880K to 4700MHz at HWBot but I haven't seen much else activity.

I'm building a herz=herz comparison between the A10-7870K and the A10-7890K which will probably take another week or so, but I'm quite surprised at the lack of interest in these latest FM2+ offerings, considering the MS restrictions on support in W7/8 for Bristol Ridge and beyond and the move away in support for Google, Mozilla &etc. in W10.


----------



## VordaVor

Well this is a 860k thread, and there probably aren't many people with bad chips like mine that barely overclocks to 4.2. If my chip could go 4.4 below 1.5v, I would probably never upgrade to 880k either.
I ask questions about 880k here, since 880k thread is full of trolls who question existence of Athlon chips in favor of intel dual core offerings.


----------



## Himo5

That's why I'm here, too. BTW, MS has got it in for Skylake as well.


----------



## VordaVor

I don't follow. All I have come across is MS extending skylake support to 2018 on win 7 and 8.1. What about google and mozilla on win10 ?


----------



## Himo5

They've pulled the options to use Chrome and Google in Cortana, unless you go and change the defaults somewhere in Settings the only search engine and browser to use will be Bing and Edge. To get their $1.5bn+ back for the 12 month free upgrade it looks like Windows is going to join the Mac in control freakery.


----------



## Jack13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> ...considering the MS restrictions on support in W7/8 for Bristol Ridge and beyond and the move away in support for Google, Mozilla &etc. in W10.


Whats this about no support for bristol ridge and beyond? I haven't heard that one, but then I really havent been paying a lot of attention. If true, I'm glad I've started experimenting with different flavors of linux. I just can't bring myself to join the rest of the flock in win 10.


----------



## Himo5

There will be no support in W7/8 for Bristol Ridge, Kaby Lake, nor, presumably, Zen and beyond. Installing these new chipsets - if it is possible at all - will only be straight-forward in W10.


----------



## Jack13

Here's hoping the linux community and software developers kick it into high gear!


----------



## 7850K

funny I just happened to check this thread as I'm downloading a few distros to try again.

That 880k validation at 4.7 is nice. I wonder if it could manage 4.6 at 1.49v and keep it under degradation voltage


----------



## Himo5

My APU results may offer some hope of this.

I have an A10-7870K at 4600MHz needing 1.50625V set to run Prime95 for 30 minutes reaching a maximum of 1.496V.

An A10-7890K needed a setting of only 1.4875V reaching a maximum of 1.471V with Asus VRM Power Control set to Medium and could run SuperPi at 1.3875V with only the Regular VRM setting.

With one of these equivalent to an 870K and the other to what would be an 890K it looks like all but the heaviest of loads should be possible for an 880K under the degradation voltage on a decent board.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> I'm quite surprised at the lack of interest in these latest FM2+ offerings,


I'm not. The 7890k came several months too late. It should have launched last November either before or during Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Anyone building a new machine is probably just going to suck it up and use Win10. Anyone can still upgrade their license to 10 through July.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Any 870/880k owners that got their chip past 4700 barrier ?
> 
> Since I have a crappy overclocker, I'm thinking of ordering a 880k, since the price is equal to a 870k (at site I oder hardware from). I would love better temps from my case, esp since summer is coming.


I got a stable 4.7 on an 870K farther back up the thread, but it took quite a bit of voltage to get it stable. It stayed within the thermal margins, though, even running P95 Blend for several hours. I tested it at length after doing this suicide run and it was stable, but that's a lot of juice to have to give it.



Here's the CPU-Z validation for that run: http://valid.x86.fr/ze2eis

I think you'd prefer an 880K if you want to try to match or top 4.7, though. My guess is that AMD speed-binned the higher leakage parks as 880K. I'm running mine at stock heavily undervolted most of the time.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I got a stable 4.7 on an 870K farther back up the thread, but it took quite a bit of voltage to get it stable. It stayed within the thermal margins, though, even running P95 Blend for several hours. I tested it at length after doing this suicide run and it was stable, but that's a lot of juice to have to give it.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the CPU-Z validation for that run: http://valid.x86.fr/ze2eis
> 
> I think you'd prefer an 880K if you want to try to match or top 4.7, though. My guess is that AMD speed-binned the higher leakage parks as 880K. I'm running mine at stock heavily undervolted most of the time.


That is a lot of juice. I wasn't thinking of getting past 1.5v. Btw, what is considered a degradation voltage ? 1.5v and up ?

On a side note.

http://gamegpu.com/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/DOOM/test/doom_proz.jpg

An average 860k would sit between 4300 and 6300 and thats awesome for a new game!


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I got a stable 4.7 on an 870K farther back up the thread, but it took quite a bit of voltage to get it stable. It stayed within the thermal margins, though, even running P95 Blend for several hours. I tested it at length after doing this suicide run and it was stable, but that's a lot of juice to have to give it.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the CPU-Z validation for that run: http://valid.x86.fr/ze2eis
> 
> I think you'd prefer an 880K if you want to try to match or top 4.7, though. My guess is that AMD speed-binned the higher leakage parks as 880K. I'm running mine at stock heavily undervolted most of the time.


To much voltage for an use of 24h !
And did you tried IBT stress level "maximum" ?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> That is a lot of juice. I wasn't thinking of getting past 1.5v. Btw, what is considered a degradation voltage ? 1.5v and up ?


You should be able to run at 1.5 indefinitely. I ran an 860K at 1.53 for several months without harming it. If that voltage level does degrade the chip, it does so on a time scale where the chip would already be completely obsolete by the time it starts to fail.

Running well over 1.6 long-term would almost certainly kill one, and I don't recommend that. I only did it because that's what it took to hit 4.7, and it was able to get there, be stable, and somehow not have the temps go through the roof under load. As I've said earlier, I normally run this chip at stock 3.9/4.1 and 1.30v, well under the stock voltage of 1.475, and only OC it when I need to. The main reason I bought it was because no one was kicking the tires on the 870K, just the 880, and I wanted to see what an 870K would do.


----------



## VordaVor

I ordered a 880k and it will arrive somewhere next week. Hoping to have it clocked 4.7 below 1.55v 24/7 and 2.2 NB. Hope it won't disappoint.


----------



## Jack13

I keep going back and forth with myself on picking up an 880K. Last night I was in the go for it mind set, so I thought I'd look around for some motherboards for some exta cpus that are hanging around as well and just make a single order. I was a bit surprised how few FM2+ boards Microcenter and Fry's (at least my local-ish ones) have in stock. I feel this is a good indication that AM4 is about ready to drop. But what do I know? I beat on nails for a living...
Now I may hold off again. Tune in next week for yet another flip flop.


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> funny I just happened to check this thread as I'm downloading a few distros to try again.
> 
> That 880k validation at 4.7 is nice. I wonder if it could manage 4.6 at 1.49v and keep it under degradation voltage


Hi, how much is degradation voltage for 860k ?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobby1776*
> 
> Hi, how much is degradation voltage for 860k ?


just rechecked, looks like 1.49v. http://www.overclock.net/t/1555615/amd-kaveri-refresh-a10-7870k-apu-arrives#post_23908987


----------



## Alastair

I thought this might be interesting. I don't know if anyone here knows at all. But I just test fired my Athlon 860K rig. And I discovered that most people are simply using Overdrives thermal margin to monitor temps.

I have just discovered that HWinfo has a reading called CPU0 and it corresponds perfectly with what Overdrive thermal margin is reporting.


----------



## Alastair

@The Stilt does your 768k - 896k prime 95 testing method we use for FX's work just as well for Steamroller cores used in Kaviri based Athlons?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> @The Stilt does your 768k - 896k prime 95 testing method we use for FX's work just as well for Steamroller cores used in Kaviri based Athlons?


Same issues with L2 and same size too, so yeah.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I keep going back and forth with myself on picking up an 880K. Last night I was in the go for it mind set, so I thought I'd look around for some motherboards for some exta cpus that are hanging around as well and just make a single order. I was a bit surprised how few FM2+ boards Microcenter and Fry's (at least my local-ish ones) have in stock. I feel this is a good indication that AM4 is about ready to drop. But what do I know? I beat on nails for a living...
> Now I may hold off again. Tune in next week for yet another flip flop.


On the other hand a bunch of new AM3+ boards came out recently.


----------



## jsc1973

Newegg has the A88X-PRO for $94.99 after rebate right now. If someone wants to use FM2+ and overclock it to the max, that's the route to take. If you're just running to run it at a light overclock, just about any FM2+ board can do the job.

You're not likely to see many of the high-end FM2+ boards in brick-and-mortar stores anymore. Any 8x0K chips being sold now are almost all being sold for budget rigs, and a $50 A58 with a 3+1 VRM is good enough for that.


----------



## Alastair

Anyone got any tips OC'ing the 8xxK's? Multi only or a bit of FSB and multi? What about CPU-NB overclocks?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Anyone got any tips OC'ing the 8xxK's? Multi only or a bit of FSB and multi? What about CPU-NB overclocks?


Multiplier only since it's a tied bus. CPU-NB has very little headroom, with the better half of the processors only being able to do about 2GHz. Mine responded very well to cold ambient, needed much less voltage to stabilize at 0C than 30C.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Anyone got any tips OC'ing the 8xxK's? Multi only or a bit of FSB and multi? What about CPU-NB overclocks?


Just run the multiplier as high as it will go. You can change the reference clock by a few MHz and stay stable, but it's not really worth messing with.

Every CPU-NB on an 8x0 I've worked with would make it to 2000 with just a slight voltage increase, but none would make 2100 stable no matter what. Not everyone here has shared the same experience. All of them seem to be able to hit 1900, but 2000 isn't guaranteed.

As long as you can keep them cool, they're pretty much like FX chips from a voltage standpoint. You can give them 1.5 or even a little more if you can keep them cool.


----------



## VordaVor

@jsc1973 What is your default VID for 870k ?

I installed my 880k last night and was shocked to see default VID of 1.487v. My 860k was 1.412 if I remember correctly.

Anyway, currently I'm trying to see how much I can undervolt this thing from the default OC I used on my 860k (4.1Ghz) and I will go from there when I find the lowest point.


----------



## Alastair

The vid on my 860K is 1.325V if I am not mistaken.


----------



## VordaVor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> The vid on my 860K is 1.325V if I am not mistaken.


Your sounds like a top notch 860k, tell me, have you tried undervolting it at stock and how low did you go?

I'm currently at 1.34v @ 4.1Ghz on my 880k and still going down. Between undervolts I test it in p95 small FFT, visit populated places in Guild Wars 2 and casual using for few hours before moving on.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> The vid on my 860K is 1.325V if I am not mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your sounds like a top notch 860k, tell me, have you tried undervolting it at stock and how low did you go?
> 
> I'm currently at 1.34v @ 4.1Ghz on my 880k and still going down. Between undervolts I test it in p95 small FFT, visit populated places in Guild Wars 2 and casual using for few hours before moving on.
Click to expand...

Ill have to plug the machine in and get it running to have a look. I am still busy building it. But as I say, I think its 1.325 or something like that. Maybe 1.37. I dunno. Will fire her up later tonight.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VordaVor*
> 
> @jsc1973 What is your default VID for 870k ?
> 
> I installed my 880k last night and was shocked to see default VID of 1.487v. My 860k was 1.412 if I remember correctly.
> 
> Anyway, currently I'm trying to see how much I can undervolt this thing from the default OC I used on my 860k (4.1Ghz) and I will go from there when I find the lowest point.


The default on my 870K is 1.475, but it's totally stable at stock speeds using 1.30 if you set the vcore manually rather than using the offset voltage (the offsets seem to put the C6 state so low that sometimes you can't wake the system back up). AMD is setting the defaults on these chips way too high.

My 860K's default vcore was exactly 1.4v. Interestingly, both the 860 and 870 reach stability at 4.5 GHz at the same voltage (1.5325), but the 870 runs much cooler at those settings, and I was able to make it go as high as 4.7 GHz, albeit with 1.62v and max LLC. It was stable for two hours of Prime and also passed IBT, but was running very close to its thermal margins.


----------



## VordaVor

Looks like 1.312v is the lowest I can go @ 4.1 Ghz. Anything below that either doesn't boot sometimes, or when it does, it freezes up in prime95. This is with 0% LLC.

Will need few days of use to see if this is 100% stable.

My 860k needs 1.468v to run @ 4.1 Ghz completely stable (0% LLC), so this is day and night difference for me.

Also, the default NB voltage is way higher. My 860k has 1.137v NB, while on this 880k it's 1.225v. I know I can probably lower this like I did with CPU voltage, but I just don't understand whats up with these high default voltages.


----------



## drmrlordx

Nice voltage for 4.1 GHz.

As for the defaults . . . I think part of it is that they are very cautious about setting voltages with GV-A1 chips. It may also be related to lower leakage, though I am not sure about that.


----------



## VordaVor

The Northbirdge has zero improvements. It wont boot at 2.2Ghz no matter what and I need the same voltage as with 860k to run it at 2.1 Ghz. They simply increased default voltage and thats all.

Over the next few days I'll OC the multiplier and see how much I can get on the main OC front. Keep you posted.


----------



## Alastair

I was right. Stock Vid on my 860K is in fact 1.325V. Both reported by HWinfo (with power savings, APM and Turbo disabled) and by the BIOS!


----------



## Himo5

Have you tried using AmdMsrTweaker to spot the default voltage in the PStates? It should be the next State after the last Turbo PState. In Godavari the 7870K defaults to 1.4875V and the 7890K defaults to 1.5V, which are the P1 States when only P0 is a Turbo State. In Kaveri the A10-7850K has 3 Turbo States, P0..2, and defaults to 1.3375V which is P3 State.


----------



## syl1979

Here is my 860K :


----------



## drmrlordx

Wow, that's a high default vcore for an 860k. My 7700k defaults to like 1.3125v, and that's a jump from the 1.2125v that detected with the shipping BIOS on my a88x-pro. Your high default vcore may be affected by running a newer BIOS aimed at GV-A1 chips . . .


----------



## syl1979

Well, I do think all 860K have different ref. Voltage. AMD only guaranties it can keep the 4ghz.


----------



## Singularity2

Is there anything I can do to fix my throttling issue on my motherboard? My motherboard is Gigabyte F2A68HM-HD2. I find I'm unable to go over 4GHz (even this clock speed is stretching it) without throttling issues occurring (cores occasionally drop down to 1.7GHz). Throttling usually occurs when thermal margins hit around 15-20c. This leads me to believe it's the VRMs on my board that are causing issues for my CPU. I'm not expecting crazy OC results, but getting over 4ghz would be nice.

I currently use AMD Overdrive to undervolt as the default values set (1.368v is default according to CPUID HWMonitor) increase the chance of getting throttling issues even doing light gaming @ 4Ghz, so I have to undervolt to prevent that. My BIOs does not allow for undervolting, so I'm forced to use this software. I've currently had to lower my clock speed to 3.9 because since it's summer, my room is much hotter than normal, and this appears to be making my PC hot as a result. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get higher clock speeds (higher than 4) at lower voltages - stress testing freezes the entire PC at higher clock speeds and lower volts, so that method is out of the question.

My Case is CiT1017 if that helps.


----------



## syl1979

Hello,

IF throttling is due to VRMs getting too hot ; you may try to add small heatsinks on the VRMs.
It is also generally recommended to use top flow CPU cooler (maybe a scythe shuriken ?) instead of tower cpu cooler.


----------



## Singularity2

How do I know what type of heatsink to buy? Don't want to just buy any only to have them not fit or something.

And I'm not 100% sure it's the VRM's overheating. I'm only assuming since the throttling occurs even if thermal margins are still in double-digits (15-20c when stress testing with OCCT). It takes about 3mins for the throttling to begin after OCCT stress test. Margins are around 15-20c during this.

It has to be VRMs causing it if not the CPU itself I think.


----------



## VordaVor

Does the throttling happen during gaming, or only while stressing with OCCT ?

You can see what kind of socket support a CPU cooler has in specifications and on manufacturer website. I would also recommend small heatsinks for VRMs. If you are lucky you can find those in your local PC hardware store. If not, check Amazon or equivalent site. They can't "not fit". They are square shaped little pieces you just tape on your VRMs.


----------



## Singularity2

Throttling only occurs in a stress test after around 3mins if I undervolt

It did, however, start throttling while playing a game (the game isn't heavily taxing either - it only consumes around 25-35% CPU) and watching Twitch (but this on source quality was making chrome use up to 25-40% CPU) when clocked at 4GHz with 1.308V

I've had to downclock my CPU to 3.9GHz and lower voltages to 1.26V in order to lessen the heat because of summer times (my room tends to get very hot). But yeah, the VRMs appear to be limiting my OC potential since they get so hot they decide to throttle down the CPU, so I can't really go over 4GHz comfortably.

I have to use AOD as it is to keep my voltages low because the one assigned by the bios only increases the chances of throttling. At default voltages, it will start throttling at 4Ghz when even doing lighter gaming. 1.368V is the voltage it sets and something my motherboard cannot handle. Thank god for AOD or idk what I'd use to undervolt.


----------



## HeadGear

Get some airflow going over the VRMs, and if you can, get a cheap pack of RAM heatsinks to stink on the VRMs (copper or alluminum will do, make sure they come with thermal tape, most do). That is some very premature throttling, probably from the economy of the board. The less costlier boards seem to really skimp on the VRMs, so much so that not much more than basic surfing/media duties are possible without throttling. Though this one at 4+1 is generally considering beefier than a lot of the lower end boards, so it might just be heat. Make sure your case interior temp is under control, or else that extra air and heatsinks wont do that much.

My first FM2 board throttled pretty bad until i did that (i posted pictures from quite some time ago far earlier in the thread) and still performs very well overclocked in my friends hands. I obv dont have the same issue with my XBR.


----------



## Rabit

On my A88Xm-A I used some spare heatsinks + Fan from AMD sock cooler * I only used 5V on it, working all the way to 4.4Ghz at 4.5GHz I have throttling ;/


----------



## Singularity2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Get some airflow going over the VRMs, and if you can, get a cheap pack of RAM heatsinks to stink on the VRMs (copper or alluminum will do, make sure they come with thermal tape, most do). That is some very premature throttling, probably from the economy of the board. The less costlier boards seem to really skimp on the VRMs, so much so that not much more than basic surfing/media duties are possible without throttling. Though this one at 4+1 is generally considering beefier than a lot of the lower end boards, so it might just be heat. Make sure your case interior temp is under control, or else that extra air and heatsinks wont do that much.
> 
> My first FM2 board throttled pretty bad until i did that (i posted pictures from quite some time ago far earlier in the thread) and still performs very well overclocked in my friends hands. I obv dont have the same issue with my XBR.


How do I check my interior case temp? I have no experience with this sort of stuff. This PC was basically given as a gift, so I had no control over what was put inside. The case is CiT1017 and it has one fan at the front of the case.

How would the heatsinks be installed? Do you screw them on, or what?

I mean, I'm just assuming it's the VRMs because I can't think of anything else that would cause the throttling. Research pointed to that as the likely culprit.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> On my A88Xm-A I used some spare heatsinks + Fan from AMD sock cooler * I only used 5V on it, working all the way to 4.4Ghz at 4.5GHz I have throttling ;/










that is not gonna cut it for efficient VRM cooling. With AMD it's best to get a board with large VRM capacity and cooling. It goes the same for extreme Intel OC but for normal OC they are way more tolerant due to lower power consumption.
You might want to use either bigger alu heatsink on multiple chips at once or make copper spacer and attach a big alu heatsink on top of that copper spacer so the heatsink is above all the components while copper transfers heat to it fast. Personally I have a copper bar that is kind of good for DIY like this and many various spare alu heatsinks of all sizes.

You really want to beef that cooling up. Maybe the VRMs are running out of capacity can be an issue as well


----------



## HeadGear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Singularity2*
> 
> How do I check my interior case temp? I have no experience with this sort of stuff. This PC was basically given as a gift, so I had no control over what was put inside. The case is CiT1017 and it has one fan at the front of the case.
> 
> How would the heatsinks be installed? Do you screw them on, or what?
> 
> I mean, I'm just assuming it's the VRMs because I can't think of anything else that would cause the throttling. Research pointed to that as the likely culprit.


Having one fan that is probably intake only (blows into the case) can't be helping. There should be at least one exhaust fan, and if there can only only be one, it should be at the back of the case. The fan at the front is pressurizing the case, but without an active exhaust, the air heated up by your computer parts is probably just sort of languishing around. You need an exhaust fan.

OCing requires attention to heat control, or you will have no measurable success.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is not gonna cut it for efficient VRM cooling. With AMD it's best to get a board with large VRM capacity and cooling. It goes the same for extreme Intel OC but for normal OC they are way more tolerant due to lower power consumption.
> You might want to use either bigger alu heatsink on multiple chips at once or make copper spacer and attach a big alu heatsink on top of that copper spacer so the heatsink is above all the components while copper transfers heat to it fast. Personally I have a copper bar that is kind of good for DIY like this and many various spare alu heatsinks of all sizes.
> 
> You really want to beef that cooling up. Maybe the VRMs are running out of capacity can be an issue as well


Better motherboard give only stable 4.5Ghz on my x4 860k tested on Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER and seriously is not worthy to buy for only 100 mhz difference, anyway heat-sinks temps on full load are around 65-70C bigger heat-sinks do not make difference, this is simple cheap 3+2 phase mobo, second hand buy, still on warranty for only $30


----------



## Singularity2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadGear*
> 
> Having one fan that is probably intake only (blows into the case) can't be helping. There should be at least one exhaust fan, and if there can only only be one, it should be at the back of the case. The fan at the front is pressurizing the case, but without an active exhaust, the air heated up by your computer parts is probably just sort of languishing around. You need an exhaust fan.
> 
> OCing requires attention to heat control, or you will have no measurable success.


I think the front one is exhaust. I can see it spinning and when I place my hand over it, it's really cool to touch. I don't have any exhaust fans elsewhere, though. I can see a few mounts on the side and back of the case.

Any particular exhaust fans that would be worth buying for my case?


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Better motherboard give only stable 4.5Ghz on my x4 860k tested on Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER and seriously is not worthy to buy for only 100 mhz difference, anyway heat-sinks temps on full load are around 65-70C bigger heat-sinks do not make difference, this is simple cheap 3+2 phase mobo, second hand buy, still on warranty for only $30


It's possible to get to 4.5 on a cheaper board, but the odds are much, much better on one of the 6+2 FM2+ boards, the Crossblade Ranger, A88X-Pro, or the Giga F2A88X-UP4.

You can get a better overclock on a cheap board by adding small heatsinks to the VRM's like he did. It does help. I've done that with Giga F2A88X-D3H boards, which are pretty reliable, but they skimped on the heatsinking for the VRM's. Put some cheap aluminum sinks on them and make sure there's a bit of airflow to that area, and you can eliminate any throttling issues.

As far as whether or not it's worth it to buy one of the 6+2 boards at this point in the game, I'd advise against it unless you get a great deal. FM2+ is a dead-end platform just like AM3+, and spending an extra $30-50 on a better motherboard just for an extra 100 or 200 MHz isn't worth it.


----------



## devl547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> It's possible to get to 4.5 on a cheaper board, but the odds are much, much better on one of the 6+2 FM2+ boards, the Crossblade Ranger, A88X-Pro, or the Giga F2A88X-UP4.


Gigabyte G1.sniper and A88X-Gamer mobos WILL go 4500 MHz stable.
As well as MSI A88X-G45 GAMING and GA-F2A88XN-WIFI (now writing this from that mobo with [email protected] CPU / 1108 IGP / 2400 RAM)


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devl547*
> 
> Gigabyte G1.sniper and A88X-Gamer mobos WILL go 4500 MHz stable.
> As well as MSI A88X-G45 GAMING and GA-F2A88XN-WIFI (now writing this from that mobo with [email protected] CPU / 1108 IGP / 2400 RAM)


Some will, and some won't. You have much better odds on the 6+2 boards. And a 7850K tends to be better silicon than an 860K (860K's are A10's with bad GPU sections) and isn't a 1:1 basis for comparison between the two.


----------



## Gdourado

Just for gaming, what is the verdict on 880k vs 8350?


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gdourado*
> 
> Just for gaming, what is the verdict on 880k vs 8350?


the 880k has about %10 better single thread performance than the 8350 and of course the 8350 has double the multi-thread performance. 8350's also generally have more overclock headroom.
overall the 8350 is the better gaming CPU especially if you overclock it.

If you are seriously considering an 8350 though, waiting for the new ZEN would be the better option at this point.


----------



## Spioszek

I have a plate Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6 + + 860K curled at 4.4GHz on a voltage stiff ~ 1.42V and Offset 0.

What NB voltage on the set?
Is the voltage will be the same for 1800 and 2000MHz frequencies?

Is the frequency NB gives you something in the game?

Settings LLC my car, for which they are responsible?
I can rearrange them in different%


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gdourado*
> 
> Just for gaming, what is the verdict on 880k vs 8350?


8350


----------



## FuryFist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> the 880k has about %10 better single thread performance than the 8350 and of course the 8350 has double the multi-thread performance. 8350's also generally have more overclock headroom.
> overall the 8350 is the better gaming CPU especially if you overclock it.
> 
> If you are seriously considering an 8350 though, waiting for the new ZEN would be the better option at this point.


I definitely agree.


----------



## jsc1973

If you don't want to wait until the end of the year and you can get a good deal on an 83x0, go for it. They're actually better than ever now, because of better multithreading in software.

The Godavari quads are good chips and a good value relative to the Intel competition, but they're overpriced compared to what I've seen 8300's and 8310's selling for.

I'm not sure I would have gone to high-end FM2+ if I had known we weren't going to get Carrizo except in the form of the harvested mobile chips branded as Athlon 845. The value proposition is really back with AM3+ right now.


----------



## Rabit

Because second hand prices for i5 2gen + mobo drops in my Country below 100$ , I will say soon goodbye to my dear X4 860k


----------



## Gdrstorm

In my country second gen i5+mobo is around 150e!


----------



## mcspawnagain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> If you don't want to wait until the end of the year and you can get a good deal on an 83x0, go for it. They're actually better than ever now, because of better multithreading in software.
> 
> The Godavari quads are good chips and a good value relative to the Intel competition, but they're overpriced compared to what I've seen 8300's and 8310's selling for.
> 
> I'm not sure I would have gone to high-end FM2+ if I had known we weren't going to get Carrizo except in the form of the harvested mobile chips branded as Athlon 845. The value proposition is really back with AM3+ right now.


i am satisfied for the benchmarks and gaming play ability of my 860k with a very easy stock clock it fares with older but still i7's
that being said my preferred build would be intel


----------



## Lee0

First time poster in this thread but I've been eying the 860/880k for a while. Because they seem to be the only widely spread AMD Processor that can work in an ITX motherboard. You can get a motherboard and a 860k (with QC) for a little over 100 usd. And with most people converting to a newer chipset and buying DDR4 you can get some DDR3 pretty cheap where I live, a 2x4gb kit can go for 15 bucks if you are a patient and good buyer. So realistically you can pretty easily get CPU, MOBO and RAM for 130 usd. Add 400 usd for a Corsair SF 450 PSU and a used 980 or RX 480. A chassi (Node 202) for an example costs 95 bucks. Total of 525 usd for a really nice console sized pc that would out perform one by miles.


----------



## drmrlordx

$130 USD for chip + board + RAM on an 860k is pretty good. The rest of those prices are ugly but what can you do?

A 4 Gb r9 480 retails $199 USD, how are you spending ~$200 on a 450W power supply?!?!


----------



## Lee0

Corsair sf 450, it's pretty expensive.


----------



## drmrlordx

You mean this thing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139156&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Power+Supplies-_-N82E16817139156&gclid=CJSPvP-z380CFU0vgQodKZIBPw&gclsrc=aw.ds

?

There are better PSUs for the money regardless:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817438054

Them SuperFlower designed SuperNovas are great.


----------



## ManofGod1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drmrlordx*
> 
> You mean this thing:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139156&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Power+Supplies-_-N82E16817139156&gclid=CJSPvP-z380CFU0vgQodKZIBPw&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> ?
> 
> There are better PSUs for the money regardless:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817438054
> 
> Them SuperFlower designed SuperNovas are great.


I am guessing that you did not notice that the person you quoted needs a small form factor power supply. The one you suggested in the second link is not a SFF power supply.


----------



## jsc1973

I also suspect that since he referred to the price as "USD," he doesn't live in the United States and therefore doesn't have access to Newegg.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee0*
> 
> First time poster in this thread but I've been eying the 860/880k for a while. Because they seem to be the only widely spread AMD Processor that can work in an ITX motherboard. You can get a motherboard and a 860k (with QC) for a little over 100 usd. And with most people converting to a newer chipset and buying DDR4 you can get some DDR3 pretty cheap where I live, a 2x4gb kit can go for 15 bucks if you are a patient and good buyer. So realistically you can pretty easily get CPU, MOBO and RAM for 130 usd. Add 400 usd for a Corsair SF 450 PSU and a used 980 or RX 480. A chassi (Node 202) for an example costs 95 bucks. Total of 525 usd for a really nice console sized pc that would out perform one by miles.


If you have a choice between an 860 and an 880 and you're wanting to go ITX, get the 880 if it's not much more money. There's not much difference between Kaveri and Godavari, but the latter does run a little cooler. That makes a difference in an ITX system, especially if you'd like to overclock the CPU. I got the same temps on an 860K at 4.5 GHz and 1.53v that I got with an 870K (the original Godavari Athlon SKU) at 4.7 GHz and 1.6v.


----------



## Lee0

Corsair sf 450, it's pretty expensive. and originally I was thinking about a used 980
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I also suspect that since he referred to the price as "USD," he doesn't live in the United States and therefore doesn't have access to Newegg.
> If you have a choice between an 860 and an 880 and you're wanting to go ITX, get the 880 if it's not much more money. There's not much difference between Kaveri and Godavari, but the latter does run a little cooler. That makes a difference in an ITX system, especially if you'd like to overclock the CPU. I got the same temps on an 860K at 4.5 GHz and 1.53v that I got with an 870K (the original Godavari Athlon SKU) at 4.7 GHz and 1.6v.


Ok, thanks, thought it was just a matter of clocks speeds.

Yeah I live in Sweden so everything here has a VAT of 25% ^^.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee0*
> 
> Corsair sf 450, it's pretty expensive. and originally I was thinking about a used 980
> Ok, thanks, thought it was just a matter of clocks speeds.
> 
> Yeah I live in Sweden so everything here has a VAT of 25% ^^.


Kaveri and Godavari are identical silicon, but Godavari chips use solder between the CPU core and the IHS, which helps them to run cooler. Kaveri versions use an ordinary thermal interface material. You could probably delid a Kaveri and make it run as cool as a Godavari by simply replacing the TIM with some Coollaboratory Liquid Pro/Ultra, but by the time you got done buying some and voided your warranty on the 860K, you might as well just get an 880.


----------



## drmrlordx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ManofGod1000*
> 
> I am guessing that you did not notice that the person you quoted needs a small form factor power supply. The one you suggested in the second link is not a SFF power supply.


Oh, no, I didn't notice that. Still, that markup . . . yow.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I also suspect that since he referred to the price as "USD," he doesn't live in the United States and therefore doesn't have access to Newegg.


He might not, but he's talking a greater-than-100% markup vs. NA prices for the same product.

Also, KV-A1 and GV-A1 are not identical silicon. Identical design, yes. Identical stepping/voltage scaling characteristics? No.


----------



## mcspawnagain

@drmrlordx
Also, KV-A1 and GV-A1 are not identical silicon. Identical design, yes. Identical stepping/voltage scaling characteristics? No.[/quote]

i am trying to guess what differences you speak of specifically stepping and volt scaling in what way are the different? i was reading of better thermal tolerances with GV-A1. Is the change even worth the old socket?


----------



## drmrlordx

Eh, it isn't such a big change that FM2+ magically becomes better than what it is. The biggest limitations (lots of boards with underbuilt sockets, poor-quality IMC, weird power saving behavior) are still there. The GV-A1 chips overall behave better. Usually. And AMD switched back to solder which was a nice touch.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcspawnagain*
> 
> @drmrlordx
> Also, KV-A1 and GV-A1 are not identical silicon. Identical design, yes. Identical stepping/voltage scaling characteristics? No.
> 
> i am trying to guess what differences you speak of specifically stepping and volt scaling in what way are the different? i was reading of better thermal tolerances with GV-A1. Is the change even worth the old socket?


That's the only difference I see. Both my 860K and my 870K hit 4.5 GHz stable at the same vcore--1.5325 with standard LLC. The only difference was that the 860K was near its thermal limit and the 870K was not, so I was able to go higher on frequency and voltage with it.

The 870K is much more undervoltable as well, but that makes sense, considering it's newer silicon, and newer chips tend to be more efficient. Try using an FX-8350 from 2013 and a new FX-8350 today and see if they have the same characteristics.

Other than those things, there is no difference. The 860K and the 870K perform completely identically to one another. I don't think there's any difference other than that 870K is newer and it's soldered, which helps it run cooler. As i said earlier, if someone delidded an 860K and replaced the TIM with some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, I bet it would OC exactly like a Godavari. I was considering doing the experiment myself until my friend's PC died, and I used the 860 to build her a new one for her birthday.


----------



## drmrlordx

Well I did delid/relid my A10-7700k using CLU and it hit 4.7 GHZ @ 1.5125v while it was still healthy. I suppose I ran it at that voltage too many times (too much benchmarking) for it to last. It's slowly degrading. Not sure if I can get it to last through December but we'll see!

Regardless, GV-A1 will get you better voltage scaling and (usually) better operating temperatures at any given voltage/clockspeed.


----------



## jsc1973

That voltage shouldn't have degraded the chip that quickly. I ran an 860K at 1.53 for nearly a year and it still ran as well as it did the day I got it.

Are you sure that it wasn't degraded VRM's on the motherboard, because if 1.5125 degraded a 7700K that quickly, that was one sorry CPU.


----------



## drmrlordx

The chip actually spent most of its time below 1.5v so I don't know what to tell you. I did push the hell out of the NB and ran vNB @ 1.33v or so for a long while (in order to get 2100 mhz NB stable) so that might have also been a contributor.

But I have been flogging the poor things since nov 2014 and I have pushed it pretty hard at times.


----------



## Alastair

well so far with the testing of my BRILLAINT low vid sample 860K I have reached a stable 4.5GHz at 1.4V and currently testing [email protected] 1.416-1.42 (voltage does swing a bit)


----------



## Jack13

Sweet. 1.472V is as low as I can go at 4.4 I can do 4.5 stable but it comes with a pretty dramatic increase in voltage. Not worth the gains for me.


----------



## Alastair

I settled at 4.6GHz at 1.416V as a daily. I'm not quite sure what the max recommended safe voltage is. I've heard differing reports that it's 1.49V right up to 1.55V. But since this isn't a daily rig and it will also back up as a home theater and family machine I won't push it too hard.

The volt wall picks up massively above 4.6GHz though. I pushed as high as 1.464V at 4.7GHz but I was still blue screening. But I didn't try playing with any other voltages besides Vcore. this was basically a very fast dirty overclock, but eve if I tuned it I'm sure it would take at least 1.45V to get 4700 stable.

So now I will spend my time trying to tune the 4.6 clock. Try and get the CPU-NB to 2000. Higher is unlikely since I am not looking to overclock the 2133 Ares sticks I have. Maybe I might just push for some tighter timings.

Overall not a bad day from a 1.325V vid chip.

The one thing I have found strange though, is even with the "regular" setting (0%)on the CPU LLC I still get slight V boost. The 4.6 at 1.416V is a 1.4V setting in the BIOS. Yet with Vishera I needed "ultra high" (75%) in order to stop v droop and maintain a near constant voltage.


----------



## 7850K

consider me jealous








I'm currently using 1.438v for 4.4Ghz, though I might be able to stabilize at 1.43v. My chip either has a steep voltage wall blocking 4.5Ghz or something else is keeping it from stabilizing that I haven't had the time to track down.

I think I remember The Stilt saying 1.49v was the max safe


----------



## Rabit

Footbal Manager 2015 * I load save and make 1 week vacation, * score is how much time take it









i5 3570 @4Ghz 5:30 min
X4 860k @4,4Ghz 6:30 min

I surprise that intel is not faster


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Footbal Manager 2015 * I load save and make 1 week vacation, * score is how much time take it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i5 3570 @4Ghz 5:30 min
> X4 860k @4,4Ghz 6:30 min
> 
> I surprise that intel is not faster


When the system is able to use all available threads and instruction sets, the Athlon X4 860K at 4.5 GHz is roughly equivalent to an i5-2500. My 870K, when overclocked to 4.7, matches a 3570. Nothing surprising about these results. They're documented by me and a few others on this thread going back nearly two years now.


----------



## 7850K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> When the system is able to use all available threads and instruction sets, the Athlon X4 860K at 4.5 GHz is roughly equivalent to an i5-2500. My 870K, when overclocked to 4.7, matches a 3570. Nothing surprising about these results. They're documented by me and a few others on this thread going back nearly two years now.


Imagine if AMD was able to put out a _990K_ that turbo'd to 4.7Ghz with a wraith cooler for ~$100. If they did I'd probably stay on FM2+ for another couple years.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7850K*
> 
> Imagine if AMD was able to put out a _990K_ that turbo'd to 4.7Ghz with a wraith cooler for ~$100. If they did I'd probably stay on FM2+ for another couple years.


It would be nice if they could, but I think that would be pushing it way too hard. I need about 1.6v to reach 4.7 GHz stable, and I'm sure if I ran that 24/7 that I would burn out this CPU in a hurry. Seeing as how some people seem to have burned out 860K's in less than a year of running at 1.5v (although my high-leakage 860K survived that for ~16 months with no issues), I don't think any parts beyond the 880K are feasible.

Now that I say that, of course AMD will announce an 890K next week.


----------



## speedy22

Hi guys,

Today i just delidded my 860k and see how it'll perform with a cooler on the die


----------



## Bobby1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Today i just delidded my 860k and see how it'll perform with a cooler on the die


Hi will wait for results.
I Have little Problem with my OC 860k. Right now i am on 4.2Ghz stable OC, but cant hit 4.3GHz no matter what voltage i add. Last time i try to add +0.072V vcore which is too much voltage i think. I need your Help what to do. Soon i will get AIO Liquid cooler so temp will be no problem.
So my mobo is GA-F2A88XM-D3H rev. 3.1 ( there is other revision 3.0 too)
After read almost everything about my mobo and 860k i found some interesting quotes Here : http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2391341/860k-temp-stability.html

" With F7 BIOS things have changed. +0.180 use to be 1.464v but now is 1.512v. +0,138 will be 1.464v now. "
I am with F7 Bios right now. I try to change BIOS to F9 but with F9 cant manage to make stable OC even with 4.2GHz so i flash back to F7
Now my current settings for 24/7 4.2Ghz are: 4.2GHz (1.488v [+0.054]) sometimes show 1.476v CPU-Z. Termal margin under heavy load is 15-20 wit AMD Overdrive.
Thanks in advance for your Help


----------



## Lee0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Today i just delidded my 860k and see how it'll perform with a cooler on the die]


How do you mount a cooler directly to the die and what TIM did you use? Pictures would be appreciated


----------



## drmrlordx

Nice delid! Let us know what HSF and TIM you use, and how you mount the HSF.


----------



## speedy22

First test : in watercooling kit
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy-precisemount-add-on-naked-apu

Second test : in aircooling with a Gelid GX-7

and Thermal paste Gelid GC Extreme or Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut

Coming Soon !


----------



## Lee0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> First test : in watercooling kit
> https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy-precisemount-add-on-naked-apu
> 
> Second test : in aircooling with a Gelid GX-7
> 
> and Thermal paste Gelid GC Extreme or Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut
> Coming Soon !


Looking forward to it!


----------



## Alastair

Guys I am struggling to get 2200 NB stable on my Kaviri Athlon. I thought I had it a few days ago where it passed several tests at 2200 at 1.1625V but now it doesn't matter how much or how little NB voltage I use. I can't get it to stabilise.


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## speedy22

2200 is to much for a Kaviri Athlon, try at 2000 with stock volt + a small fan for cooling the vrm


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## drmrlordx

2200+ MHz NB is very rare for any Kaveri/Godavari chip. My 7870k will not cooperate at that speed, even though it does 2100 MHz NB at nearly stock volts.


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## speedy22

My 860k can only do 2000 MHz
But i have also a 750k who can reach 2400 MHz

For this speed, 750-760k is the best choice


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## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> My 860k can only do 2000 MHz
> But i have also a 750k who can reach 2400 MHz
> 
> For this speed, 750-760k is the best choice


750 and 760K is piledriver. Two different architectures. Piledriver is capable of close on 3000MHz. Doesn't mean that 3000MHz on Piledriver will be better then 2200 on Steamroller.


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## speedy22

In latency acess it makes a difference but anyway you are right they are not comparable


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## Alastair

Well. I'm passing HCI members at 2100MHz. But my IBT runs are slower.


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## Alastair

Here are some HW BOT scores with my 860K. Got third in Cinebench 11.5 and 15.
http://hwbot.org/submission/3365787_
http://hwbot.org/submission/3365756_
http://hwbot.org/submission/3365755_


----------



## Himo5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Here are some HW BOT scores with my 860K. Got third in Cinebench 11.5 and 15.
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365787_
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365756_
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365755_


Wow, well done! How on earth do you get to validation with 5150MHz without raising Vcore - and is that 'air(stock)' Kaveri's junk cooler? Rep+


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Himo5*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Here are some HW BOT scores with my 860K. Got third in Cinebench 11.5 and 15.
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365787_
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365756_
> http://hwbot.org/submission/3365755_
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, well done! How on earth do you get to validation with 5150MHz without raising Vcore - and is that 'air(stock)' Kaveri's junk cooler? Rep+
Click to expand...

No its 5.15 at 1.65V. Its an arctic a30 cooler. And it is only reading the stock vid because I used CPU-z in extreme mode. So it had as little load as humanly possible.


----------



## Himo5

Ah, and now I see you're only using one thread out of 4. Did you single thread Cinebench as well? Can you do that?


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## speedy22

Where fare can you go in oc with your Arctic A30 for use in everyday ?

I'm interested for the A32 and his semi passive cooling


----------



## Lee0

@speedy22 Any updates on the bare die overclocking and temperatures results?


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speedy22*
> 
> Where fare can you go in oc with your Arctic A30 for use in everyday ?
> 
> I'm interested for the A32 and his semi passive cooling


I can get 4.65GHz on the A30.


----------



## speedy22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee0*
> 
> @speedy22 Any updates on the bare die overclocking and temperatures results?


As soon as i would have my new mobo who was returned "Asrock G 3.1" for a problem in the usb slot...

But i did it also my Athlon 5370



Idle temp was 45° at 2.7ghz and max 54° celsius
Now 36° to max ~42-43° with a Kozuti
Fan was at full speed

ASAP for the rest


----------



## speedy22

Ok guys, i just received my new mobo today and i will start soon the tests









Here some pictures of the cpu mounted


----------



## drmrlordx

Shiny. Good luck!


----------



## Magusxd

Hi, guys just a quick question, i got my 860k with an asus a88xm-a up to 4.4 without voltage prime95 stable (voltage is around 1.356v). But during prime95 i see the clock going down at 1.7ghz on some instances, thermal margin doesn't go lower than 25 and i don't understand if this is a case of throttling or not ? Any suggestions ? Thanks in advance


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magusxd*
> 
> Hi, guys just a quick question, i got my 860k with an asus a88xm-a up to 4.4 without voltage prime95 stable (voltage is around 1.356v). But during prime95 i see the clock going down at 1.7ghz on some instances, thermal margin doesn't go lower than 25 and i don't understand if this is a case of throttling or not ? Any suggestions ? Thanks in advance


Throttling to the minimum PState (1.6-1.7GHz) without downclocking to the middle ones first, usually means VRM overheating. Try to add some heatsinks to the mosfets like the user above, or at least a fan throwing some fresh air to them.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack13*
> 
> I keep going back and forth with myself on picking up an 880K. Last night I was in the go for it mind set, so I thought I'd look around for some motherboards for some exta cpus that are hanging around as well and just make a single order. I was a bit surprised how few FM2+ boards Microcenter and Fry's (at least my local-ish ones) have in stock. I feel this is a good indication that AM4 is about ready to drop. But what do I know? I beat on nails for a living...
> Now I may hold off again. Tune in next week for yet another flip flop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magusxd*
> 
> Hi, guys just a quick question, i got my 860k with an asus a88xm-a up to 4.4 without voltage prime95 stable (voltage is around 1.356v). But during prime95 i see the clock going down at 1.7ghz on some instances, thermal margin doesn't go lower than 25 and i don't understand if this is a case of throttling or not ? Any suggestions ? Thanks in advance


If it is downclocking it isn't stable. You are getting throttling most likely due to your motherboard not being able to handle the voltage requirements of the cpu. Also the stock voltage of a 860K is around 1.4875 so it seems your board has some serious vdroop.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> If it is downclocking it isn't stable. You are getting throttling most likely due to your motherboard not being able to handle the voltage requirements of the cpu. Also the stock voltage of a 860K is around 1.4875 so it seems your board has some serious vdroop.


Throttling most probably due to VRM overheating has said above. And solution is adding small heatsinks and air vent.... Asusu A88XM-A is cheap one
Also using top-flow CPU cooler instead of tower will help to cool the VRMs. And I don't speak of AIO that may induce total absence of airflow on VRMs.......

For the voltage each 8600K will have different VID. I have seen one with 1.31 v and mine is 1.41v....


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Throttling most probably due to VRM overheating has said above. And solution is adding small heatsinks and air vent.... Asusu A88XM-A is cheap one
> Also using top-flow CPU cooler instead of tower will help to cool the VRMs. And I don't speak of AIO that may induce total absence of airflow on VRMs.......
> 
> For the voltage each 8600K will have different VID. I have seen one with 1.31 v and mine is 1.41v....


Not believing you have seen an 860K with 1.31 vcore.


----------



## Rabit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magusxd*
> 
> Hi, guys just a quick question, i got my 860k with an asus a88xm-a up to 4.4 without voltage prime95 stable (voltage is around 1.356v). But during prime95 i see the clock going down at 1.7ghz on some instances, thermal margin doesn't go lower than 25 and i don't understand if this is a case of throttling or not ? Any suggestions ? Thanks in advance


Asus A88XM-A Is good mobo but , I myself put heat-sinks on VRM section to work properly smile.gif
Without off heat-sink with airflow on VRM from Cooler Master TX2 I have Vcore drop on My X4 [email protected] 4.5Ghz from setted in bios 1,525 to 1,396
with heat-sinks 1.45 to 1.4 smile.gif

But for X4 860k I can keep only stable 4,4 Ghz 1,5V under bios on 4,5Ghz I have VRM throttle











With tower cooler you need also additional fan on VRM


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Throttling most probably due to VRM overheating has said above. And solution is adding small heatsinks and air vent.... Asusu A88XM-A is cheap one
> Also using top-flow CPU cooler instead of tower will help to cool the VRMs. And I don't speak of AIO that may induce total absence of airflow on VRMs.......
> 
> For the voltage each 8600K will have different VID. I have seen one with 1.31 v and mine is 1.41v....


Not believing you have seen an 860K with 1.31 vcore.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rabit*
> 
> Asus A88XM-A Is good mobo but , I myself put heat-sinks on VRM section to work properly smile.gif
> Without off heat-sink with airflow on VRM from Cooler Master TX2 I have Vcore drop on My X4 [email protected] 4.5Ghz from setted in bios 1,525 to 1,396
> with heat-sinks 1.45 to 1.4 smile.gif
> 
> But for X4 860k I can keep only stable 4,4 Ghz 1,5V under bios on 4,5Ghz I have VRM throttle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With tower cooler you need also additional fan on VRM


Any board you have to add something as basic as a heatsink to work properly I wouldn't classify as "good".


----------



## TinoArg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Any board you have to add something as basic as a heatsink to work properly I wouldn't classify as "good".


Maybe is not good for overclocking, but it can still be a good board. Is not like is doing throttling at stock settings. And also he has a tower cooler, which neglect any airflow to the VRM. With the stock cooler or aftermarket cooler that blows air to the mainboard, they usually don't have problems with VRM overheating.

The Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ is an excellent board, and it doesn't have heatsinks either. I added them anyway just in case, since I don't have a good airflow and the previous version (the A85X) has heatsink, but they were removed in this version to include a mSATA/mPCI-e slot.


----------



## drmrlordx

Its kind of a shame that that FM2+ mATX/ITX boards are generally not good for overclocking. My old Abit nf-m2 nview was a fine overclocker, and it was an mATX board. It pushed my x2-3600+ hard . . . got it all the way to 3.2 GHz.


----------



## qisoed

Helo All, just joining this thread after a month using Athlon X4 860K, you can see in my profile for full spec, but here for short:

AMD Athlon X4 860K -> 4.5Ghz daily 1.45V
Asus A88XM-Plus
Noctua NH-D9L
2 x Samsung DDR3 4GB PC12800 and 2 x G Skill Flare F3-16000CL7D-4GFLS <- I thought its gonna be bad but it ended quite well running 2133 11-12-12-28 2T 1.6V

Now the question is which apps do you use to measure temperature because when I'm using HWMonitor it shows 70-100C when it run default, and when overclock it still show the same. While in CoreTemp it shows 15-30C while the ambient temp is 22-25C, so I'm not sure with both of it.


----------



## Gdrstorm

I found that'd most accurate one is aod.


----------



## syl1979

AMD overdrive (aod) was crashing on my asus a88xm plus. Don't know why. I use hwinfo that is quite complete. It reports one CPU0 temp based on thermal margin (if i remember well in celcius the formula would be cpu0=70-thermal margin). I get thermal throttling when cpu0 over 65degC. You can use coretemp also that report accurately the thermal margin but the installer is full of optionnal ad/malware.


----------



## qisoed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gdrstorm*
> 
> I found that'd most accurate one is aod.


I'll try your suggestion thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> AMD overdrive (aod) was crashing on my asus a88xm plus. Don't know why. I use hwinfo that is quite complete. It reports one CPU0 temp based on thermal margin (if i remember well in celcius the formula would be cpu0=70-thermal margin). I get thermal throttling when cpu0 over 65degC. You can use coretemp also that report accurately the thermal margin but the installer is full of optionnal ad/malware.


wow thanks for the information, I never realize it shows the margin what I thought its the real temp on time. thanks alot


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> Throttling most probably due to VRM overheating has said above. And solution is adding small heatsinks and air vent.... Asusu A88XM-A is cheap one
> Also using top-flow CPU cooler instead of tower will help to cool the VRMs. And I don't speak of AIO that may induce total absence of airflow on VRMs.......
> 
> For the voltage each 8600K will have different VID. I have seen one with 1.31 v and mine is 1.41v....
> 
> 
> 
> Not believing you have seen an 860K with 1.31 vcore.
Click to expand...

he may be referring to mine which has a 1.325V vid.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qisoed*
> 
> Helo All, just joining this thread after a month using Athlon X4 860K, you can see in my profile for full spec, but here for short:
> 
> AMD Athlon X4 860K -> 4.5Ghz daily 1.45V
> Asus A88XM-Plus
> Noctua NH-D9L
> 2 x Samsung DDR3 4GB PC12800 and 2 x G Skill Flare F3-16000CL7D-4GFLS <- I thought its gonna be bad but it ended quite well running 2133 11-12-12-28 2T 1.6V
> 
> Now the question is which apps do you use to measure temperature because when I'm using HWMonitor it shows 70-100C when it run default, and when overclock it still show the same. While in CoreTemp it shows 15-30C while the ambient temp is 22-25C, so I'm not sure with both of it.


I would recommend rather using HWINFO. It is a superior app. And while at first glance it also displays odd information with temps at or above 100c apon closer inspection you will find what you are looking for. in HWinfo under the Athlon 860K tab there will be a temp labeled cpu0. this is the correct temp.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> AMD overdrive (aod) was crashing on my asus a88xm plus. Don't know why. I use hwinfo that is quite complete. It reports one CPU0 temp based on thermal margin (if i remember well in celcius the formula would be cpu0=70-thermal margin). I get thermal throttling when cpu0 over 65degC. You can use coretemp also that report accurately the thermal margin but the installer is full of optionnal ad/malware.


I had the same crashing on that same board with AOD. I like to tinker with a lot of hardware, (Microcenter open box specials), and had the same crashing issue with the Asus A88X-Pro. Both have a physical switch on the board for automatic overclocking. I have no proof, but I think that the switch has something to do with the crashing. I didn't have problems with an A88XM-A, also from Asus. That board has no switch. It's the only obvious thing that jumps out to me anyway.

edit: I had crashing on the boards with the switch no matter what position it was in, even when I wasn't overclocking anything. Any board with a switch would crash windows if I tried to run AOD.


----------



## syl1979

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaster*
> 
> I had the same crashing on that same board with AOD. I like to tinker with a lot of hardware, (Microcenter open box specials), and had the same crashing issue with the Asus A88X-Pro. Both have a physical switch on the board for automatic overclocking. I have no proof, but I think that the switch has something to do with the crashing. I didn't have problems with an A88XM-A, also from Asus. That board has no switch. It's the only obvious thing that jumps out to me anyway.
> 
> edit: I had crashing on the boards with the switch no matter what position it was in, even when I wasn't overclocking anything. Any board with a switch would crash windows if I tried to run AOD.


I didn't bother to report bug to AMD or ASUS as aod is no more updated....


----------



## damric

I fully expect a whole new version of AOD when the new platforms arrive, though it may be of little use to legacy hardware.


----------



## gaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syl1979*
> 
> I didn't bother to report bug to AMD or ASUS as aod is no more updated....


I never reported anything either. I always felt more comfortable going into the bios and overclocking that way.


----------



## Stray_Bullet

Hey guys. Been some time since I have posted. Trusty old 860K is still rockin. Going to be upgrading to Zen and was wondering what I could get for the 860K and Asus A88X Pro. Thanks


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stray_Bullet*
> 
> Hey guys. Been some time since I have posted. Trusty old 860K is still rockin. Going to be upgrading to Zen and was wondering what I could get for the 860K and Asus A88X Pro. Thanks


Your best bet is to post in the Appraisal section


----------

