# HTPC with NAS or seperate



## nhc

Hi,

I have been dragging on building/buying a HTPC for a few months now as I am split with so much choices. Then recently I have been reading about FreeNAS and UnRAID and I am even more confused to what I should build now. I am seeking for advice.

I envision having a HTPC player hooked up to the HDTV in the living room. And this HTPC would be a NAS server as well. It would be a central host to all the media/picture files and act as a backup server for other important files from pcs around the home. My PCs would be able to view media files from the HTPC as well. And I guess this HTPC/NAS would be on 24/7.

I read somewhere that having a HTPC act as a NAS server is not recommended and there seems to be no such software to properly merge both together.

Then I thought about having a separate HTPC and a NAS but this way seems to be low on value and tight on budget.

There is also another option where one can get a HTPC and a NAS harddrive like the WD World Book edition.

I am decidedly mixed on what I should build. I am new on this scene and seek your advice on the best setup for my needs. And I am a windows user with average computer skills.

Regards,
nhc


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## EvilGenius007

Combining the two would certainly allow you to cut costs, but you'll need to consider some other factors.

How much storage do you need, and how important is redundancy? If you need a large quantity of storage, and/or redundancy is very important you will be cramming several hard drives into your NAS(/HTPC) which will mean you need a large-ish enclosure with adequate cooling.

How important is it that your HTPC is inaudible in your living room? The hard drives best suited for NAS use tend to run a bit faster than drives recommended for HTPCs, which means they produce more noise directly, and in the additional heat they produce more noise indirectly by requiring additional cooling.

I would guess, since you're considering something like the WD World Book, that you don't need a ton of storage space. If you can get by on 1.5 or 2TB of total space, you're probably going to be fine merging your HTPC and your NAS. There's an absolutely brilliant post by Malveaux that you should look at. It talks about some of the software he uses to ensure duplicate copies of all of his software is kept in a Win 7 environment. Using Win 7 means that all of your HTPC software can also be installed.

Some HTPC cases also have great storage potential, like Silverstone's LC20B-M. Depending on how much computing power you think you need, Newegg has a combo deal you should definitely consider.


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## vgplayer

What about running Tonido on a HTPC?


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## EvilGenius007

Suggested build:

$95 Mobo: Gigabyte AM3 785G GA-MA785GT-UD3H
$99 CPU: Athlon II X4 620 AM3
$92 RAM: G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3-1333
$110 HDDs (2): Western Digital Caviar Green 1.5TB
$130 SSD: OCZ Vertex 30GB (budget permitting)
$70 Blu-Ray: Lite-on Sata Blu-Ray player (budget permitting)
$190 Case: Silverstone LC20B-M w/ remote
$100 PSU: Seasonic 750W 80 Plus Silver Certified ATX
= $996 before shipping & MIRs

Suggesting the mobo as it offers a large number of PCI-E slots, unlike the Asus. Quad core, while maybe a bit overkill for just HTPC use, should be a reasonable trade-off for combined HTPC/NAS use. Again, for combined use what might be a bit more than needed for just HTPC use, 4GB of RAM should be good for both.

Two large hard drives for storage, offering some of the best GB/$ while providing low power-consumption, low noise & low heat generation. Why not also add an SSD for speedy OS response and no noise or heat generation. If you don't need a Blu-ray drive, and do need/want DVDÂ±R capabilities, you can save about $40 here; if you want both, you'll be out another $30 or so... just depends on what you need.

Case & PSU are largely personal preference, but you should keep in mind expandability (number of hard drive slots) and adequate cooling, while minimizing noise (as many large--80mm or better--fan openings as possible). I also strongly recommend the best 80 PLUS certified PSU you can fit in the budget, as it will reduce your operating costs. Seasonic is a pretty trusted brand name, and a "Silver" certification means a high degree of efficiency.


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## MalVeauX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nhc* 
Hi,

I have been dragging on building/buying a HTPC for a few months now as I am split with so much choices. Then recently I have been reading about FreeNAS and UnRAID and I am even more confused to what I should build now. I am seeking for advice.

I envision having a HTPC player hooked up to the HDTV in the living room. And this HTPC would be a NAS server as well. It would be a central host to all the media/picture files and act as a backup server for other important files from pcs around the home. My PCs would be able to view media files from the HTPC as well. And I guess this HTPC/NAS would be on 24/7.

I read somewhere that having a HTPC act as a NAS server is not recommended and there seems to be no such software to properly merge both together.

Then I thought about having a separate HTPC and a NAS but this way seems to be low on value and tight on budget.

There is also another option where one can get a HTPC and a NAS harddrive like the WD World Book edition.

I am decidedly mixed on what I should build. I am new on this scene and seek your advice on the best setup for my needs. And I am a windows user with average computer skills.

Regards,
nhc

Heya,

There's nothing wrong with mixing HTPC and also allowing it to be a _file server_ over a network. There's no reason not to mix the two. You simply use an OS that allows both of these to happen without problems; and you can do it with various flavors of Windows and of course Linux.

The HTPC side of things is meaningless unless you specify how in depth you want it to work. If it's just to playback movies or music, that's nothing. If you want it to playback TV via a Tv tuner, that's also nothing (just plop in the card, launch your software, done). If you want to go further and make it a DVR, you now start to see where components are adding up (as you would need significant storage capacity to store DVR'd material). But this is still nothing! You can get a 2TB drive for $170 right now on newegg (without any special deal). So there's your capacity. You can make that your OS drive on one partition of it, and give the rest as a data slate for DVR, music, etc.

As for making it into a file server as well (forget NAS, NAS is for headless operation and does nothing but allow file serving over a network, nothing more), that's completely possible. You just add more HDD's, and allow sharing on the network. It's that simple. No weird hidden stuff.

And there's no reason you can't do both on the same machine.

I say this because I actually do this. My file server is 24/7 on. It also happens to be a HTPC when I want it to be. And I use Windows 7, because I like to use various softwares and don't really want to relearn linux just to do what my current OS is already doing fine for me (though I like Linux, that's not a dis). My file server has all my DVD's (hundreds of them) on data drives, all in mirrored redundant pairs so I don't lose data when a drive dies. It's several terabytes and growing. My music, images, etc all on there too. The machine is always on, is also my torrent box, has a constant video camera feed to it from my front door (surveillance), and an FTP server so I can access my data over the net from anywhere. All on the same machine. And it's nothing special. Just Windows 7, a dualcore, a bunch of 1TB and 2TB hard drives, and a motherboard with as much built in stuff as I could find to avoid having extra stuff in the case. On a UPS to avoid power outage.

Again, the only difference between a file server and a HTPC is what you actually do with it.

Component wise, here's the difference:

HTPC - TV tuner card probably, some capacity for DVR. Can playback HD, 1080p, DVD, etc content. This only needs a Dualcore and a lower end HD capable GPU, which is all nVidia geforce 8XXX series and lots of the ATI radeon 36XX and 4XXX series. You can get these cards with HDMI output, fanless, low profile, for like $40. And otherwise, they're commonly now built into AMD motherboards making it super cheap, and works right out of the box. Get a board and cheap dualcore CPU as a combo and you've got your core engine done for cheap. Add a decent sized HDD for DVR. TV tuner can range from $50 to $150 depending how powerful you want it to be.

Server (or just file sharing over network) - Just put large capacity drives, or whatever your needs are in the machine, keep it on all the time, and share the volumes over the network--you can do it with any flavor of windows (right click the drive, share, set permissions, done), and of course linux.

My only recommendation is that you keep your file sharing drives and your DVR target drive separate to keep wear/tear down on your server's data drives. And I also recommend you consider a redundancy method, like using Fbackup (free) to mirror your server's data drives so that if a drive fails, you don't lose data (doing fbackup software synch/mirror to avoid RAID setups which are just not worth it anymore). Put the machine on a decent UPS so that if the power goes out, it can safely shut down, or simply not turn off for when the power comes back on and it resumes duty (it never stopped of course since it had power thanks to the UPS).

Cheap machines can do both. Just use a reliable quality power supply, don't skimp on this part. Seriously. And use a redundant system for your file serving hard drives (again I suggest Fbackup, it's free, and works better than RAID1, works in windows). Get a nice TV tuner. Have the motherboard have the onboard GPU for this (geforce 8xxx or ATI 4xxx series, easy to find, cheap) with HDMI output. A dualcore and 2g of RAM is plenty for this machine too. The most expensive components will be the quality PSU, the hard drives for large capacity and the TV tuner card if you get one that has lots of options.

Example equipment:

x4 620 Propus 2.6ghz Quadcore
Asus M4A785-M micro ATX mothboard
Combo at newegg: $158.
You get a 2.6ghz Quadcore. HDMI output. Radeon HD4200 (plays back 1080p, DVD, HD, bluray, etc, just fine). Has plenty of expansion and room for lots of HDD's, and PCIe (both flavors) for various TV tuners. Cheap. Effective. Overkill for a server. Very good for a HTPC.

2G (2x1Gb) DDR2 RAM
Newegg: $40

400W Corsair PSU
Newegg: $50

-- That's your base machine. Quadcore. HD4200 with HDMI. Memory. PSU. *$250*

Now you add:

DVD-R or BluRAY ($25 to $XXX).

TV Tuners:
Hauppage 1250 for $52 is entry level, and excellent for watching TV and records (DVR).
Hauppage 2250 for $135 is very good, has a controller, does everything you could ever want and has two inputs even.

Hard Drives:

OS HDD and DVR HDD (for HTPC): WD 1TB 7200rpm Black for $99

Server HDD's (File Sharing):

WD 1TB Green for $85 (low power, stays cool, get two and mirror them for redundancy).

Or if you need even more capacity:

Hitachi 2TB for $169. Get two and mirror them for huge capacity with redundancy.

Get more like that and mirror them (Fbackup is free) as you need more capacity.

-- So, core machine above ($250), with a DVDR ($25), 1TB OS/DVR drive ($99), two 1TB drives mirrored for redundant file serving ($170 for both) and the 1250 TV Tuner ($50) makes for a HTPC with monster capacity for DVR (1TB) and redundant 1TB mirrored file sharing space. Total cost being *$600*. That's super cheap for this entire machine with this much capability and _capacity_ with redundancy!. Add a case and you're set. I do recommend a UPS (anything by APC with a data connection so that it can be controlled by your OS) to protect it from power outage/surge.

-- Or take the above, and go up to Bluray and 2TB drives mirrored and the 2250 TV tuner for a machine with a base cost of just under $1,000.

Case:

Whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Get something cheap that functions for you. I prefer low profile, but large enough cases to house a lot of drives, plenty of fans, and very simple appearance to hide it, but not cramped). That said, I'm a huge fan of the Thermaltake Element S case. Great Server/HTPC case. Lots of drive space. Very sleek.

OS:

Whatever. Linux is free.
Otherwise, there's Windows Server 2008 (free for students).
And of course, Windows 7 (I prefer that and use it for mine).

UPS:

You should always have a 24/7 machine on a UPS for safe keeping against power outage and surges. APC makes excellent ones. This one is overkill for a server, but it's so freaking good, even though it's not cheap, I still recommend it: APC BR800BLK 540watt

-- Just share the data drives over the network for File Sharing (the NAS part of things). Install a FTP server if you want access from the net when you're not at home (Filezilla server is perfect and easy for this). HTPC wise, just install whatever playback software you like, or use windows media center (it's great actually), or even XBMC (I love it for DVD cataloging). Attach to TV or whatever via HDMI. Done.

Controlling it, well, you have the controller remote for the HTPC part via the hauppage cards. But you can go further for more control. I personally love the DiNovo Mini. Great for a remote, but also can be typed on for your server side of things. Rechargable lithium. Bluetooth to connect. It's fantastic (but not cheap).

Good luck!

Very best,


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## Manyak

The one and only thing you need to think about when doing this is the noise. If you're going to have more than 1 or 2 physical HDDs the noise will be pretty loud for something you're putting by the TV.

Personally I think the _best_ thing would be to keep them separate, and have the HTPC completely diskless and iSCSI booting off the server/NAS. But that's just me.


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## nhc

Hi,

Thanks for all the insights and reviews. It really got me thinking now.

I think my goals are clearer now.

1. To have a PC(HT) connected to my TV. It should run Boxee or XBMC to play and catalog my media files. DVR is not necessary for now. It has to be able to stream shows from HULU, Youtube, etc. It has to be able run PPLIVE. Having said that, any average pc should be able to do all these.

2. This PC(HT) would act as a NAS too. It would be a central repository for my family photos/videos and important files from the pcs at home. Also, occasional full backups for the pcs using Driveimage XML on the PC(HT) would be performed. And the photos/videos and files would be mirrored onto another harddrive on the same PC(HT) for redundancy purpose.

3. The other PCs would be able to watch the media files from the PC(HT) with no hiccups.

I do have an existing desktop with about the same specs on the mobo and CPU you all talked about. So I may just upgrade it to the HTPC, if that is the correct word.

I do have a few questions to :

@MalVeauX - 1. Would your proposed setup be noisy to sit in the living room? 2. You mentioned about using network shares for the "nas" purpose. What is the network file transfer speed like? Does it differ a lot from dedicated NAS such as FreeNAS or UnRaid?

Kind regards,
nhc


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## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nhc* 
What is the network file transfer speed like? Does it differ a lot from dedicated NAS such as FreeNAS or UnRaid?

Nope. Network transfer speeds are entirely dependent on the NICs in the computers and the speed of the hard drives. Onboard gigabit NICs will net you about 65MB/s, if you get a good dedicated NIC you'll get about 100MB/s. That's more than enough to stream HD movies to several computers at a time. If you go Wireless you want N (G will give you problems), and then you'll be limited to streaming to one PC at a time.


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## nhc

Hi,

What is a good OS (Free) to merge the HTPC and NAS function together? As I have been a Windows user, I would like to have something that has a lower learning curve?

Regards,
nhc


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## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nhc* 
Hi,

What is a good OS (Free) to merge the HTPC and NAS function together? As I have been a Windows user, I would like to have something that has a lower learning curve?

Regards,
nhc

Just use Windows. Share the files over the network and any PC will be able to access them.


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## jlchavis0844

Maybe I'm a little weird here but for the avg person (I.E. the OP) does not need a NAS. What's the point if all you are doing is sharing files accross a network? Just get windows 7 home premium or above. Windows 7's home homegroup is extreamly easy to use because it automatically shares movies\\pictures\\music, etc over the network and all you need is to setup one password and enable the homegroup on any computer on the network. Here is my setup. I have my HTPC in my living room with two tuner cards recording QAM/analog basic cable. I rip all my dvds to this computer and can share them VIA the home group to any computer. I just load the DVD drives on the network into the movies library via Media Center on all my computers (same with video folders, picture folder, and music folders) so that I can play any file over the network on any computer and through my xbox360. Because my HTPC records via media center (.wtv) all my other computers and my 360 can play the recorded shows through media center over the network along with streaming live TV to my xbox 360.


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## EvilGenius007

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlchavis0844* 
Maybe I'm a little weird here but for the avg person (I.E. the OP) does not need a NAS. What's the point if all you are doing is sharing files accross a network?

My understanding is that "NAS" means *n*etwork *a*ttached *s*torage--all it indicates is remote storage of files, shared over a network. Everything you go on to describe is NAS. It may not be the equivalent of commercial "NAS solutions", or there may be some generally accepted connotations of when it is appropriate to use the term NAS vs. differentiating remote storage... but from the context of the OP, I believe he's referring to NAS in the least complicated sense.


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## JustusIV

I am jumping into the conversation a bit late and i just skimmed it, but i am a user that has my server and my HTPC in the same box, i have 10 hd's in my machine and ridiculous fans in it. I wouldn't consider myself an audio buff but any volume coming out of your media and its not an issue in the slightest. I would just stick to windows and setup a share. I have moved all my 24/7 programs over to that box as well as there is no point on having them on my gaming machine. To me this is the best setup. I am not super happy with the speeds currently but the max out my router which is only 100 megabit, Both my machines have gigabit on board nics so if i would just pick up a new router this would not be an issue in the slightest.


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