# Liquid Cooling With Mercury?



## Kal777

here is a better thought? you could use corn. and when it goes through the loop it makes you a snack and removes heat XD


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## Kal777

but in all seriousity look up mercury on google and check it up on wiki, look for thermal conductivity, being a metal id guess it would work a hell of a lot better than water


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## Chroma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kal777* 
but in all seriousity look up mercury on google and check it up on wiki, look for thermal conductivity, being a metal id guess it would work a hell of a lot better than water

That was my thought exactly.

I do like the corn idea, though. On a restaurant menu: Steak with overclocked corn on the side


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## wumpus

It would only work better than water if the thermal conductivity was greater.
im guessing it wont do a whole lot better than water...


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## [email protected]'D

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chroma* 
What do you think?

Won't work, Highly poisonous, and not worth the risk....water does just fine

And on another note mercury is 13.6ish times as dense *the weight* as water so you would need one hell of a pump to get it flowing smothly....All in all it won't work

Water - 1000Kg per cubic meter
Mercury - 13,600Kg per cubic meter


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## Kal777

this will kill your loop in the long run, but Auto radiator coolant is far better at removing heat than water. i did work experiance at a mechanics in 40*C heat and the coolant was still chilled. guess if it cools a block of steal that gets to 100*C then no issues cooling a CPU.


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## guinaom1

mercury is poison =x
dont mess with that, also it wont help much and unless you have some serious tubes that mercury can give you trouble.


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## BlackHoleSon

Mercury, while highly thermally conductive, wouldn't work in your liquid cooling setup.

However, mercury is already used in cooling. The heatpipes on a heatsink are often filled with mercury then vacuum sealed to be additionally conductive to the metal.


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## Erick Silver

Grand Idea....if it wasn't for the shear lethality of it! Both to yourself and your rig. LOL Theorhetically, it is "possible", but the shear ramifications of materials needed to attempt to make the loop a safe working unit make it "impossible". Cooling wise it would be extrordinarily effective. Handling the Mercury would kill you though. So, onto better more "User Friendly" materials!


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## Alatar

every now and then I see people coming up with this idea









every single time the arguments against the thing outweigh the benefits, you cons like mercury is highly poisonous, it's awfully expensive, in some places it's even illegal in large quantities, it's dense....

on the other hand you have pro: a bit better cooling







of course this is OCN and we want better cooling but you would need a different block for it, a really powerful pump etc. it just isn't worth it.


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## FriedSushi87

Common guys, don't be such pansies...
This needs to be tried...

I'm also sure bacterial infection in the loop would be a non-existent problem.


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## kyle2194

It has very low specific heat capacity (about 0.034 that of water), so is very quickly saturated with the heat of the system. You'd need loads of mercury and a very fast cooling radiator setup. Also, it expands dramatically when warm (hence its use in thermometers) thus requiring considerable overflow space in your res.


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## Billy O

Way too dense, no pump capable.


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## MR KROGOTH

What if instead of mercury you put alot of maybe some AS5 or other high-end thermal compound in with the water...just thin it down with silicon thermal stoph


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## Billy O

Let's work our way through the periodic table, maybe something beats water.


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## pieisgood2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chroma* 
Disclaimer: This is a bad idea in real life!!!

Just for kicks-







- I've been wondering if it might work well (except for the whole it-will-kill-you part and the it-will-****-your-hardware-in-a-spill)

So, if we replaced the water in the water cooling system with mercury, I wonder how well it might perform. Assuming, of course, we replaced the components with stuff that was designed to handle liquid mercury.

If we used a pump, radiator, tubing, and waterblock that was designed to handle the stuff, I have a feeling it might work as well or better than water. What do you think?









Edit:
Looking it up, Mercury has a thermal conductivity of 8.3 W/(mK) while water is 0.67 W/(mK). http://www.koolance.com/technical/cooling101/002.html

gallium would also work and it won't absorb into your skin. don't get me wrong all metals are potentially harmful if you ingest them. it's just that mercury will seep through your skin and gallium won't or at least for the most part.


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## dracotonisamond

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Billy O* 
Let's work our way through the periodic table, maybe something beats water.


liquid helium beats the pants off anything.


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## MR KROGOTH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dracotonisamond* 
liquid helium beats the pants of anything.

Sorry but i would imagine liquid hydrogen to be colder. Dont know just a guess


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## pieisgood2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dracotonisamond* 
liquid helium beats the pants off anything.

yea and it's also colder than liquid nitrogen. good luck using that. and actually liquid hydrogen is the coldest form of an element.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MR KROGOTH* 
Sorry but i would imagine liquid hydrogen to be colder. Dont know just a guess

yes you are right.


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## MR KROGOTH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pieisgood2* 
yea and it's also colder than liquid nitrogen. good luck using that. and actually liquid hydrogen is the coldest form of an element.









YAAAAY stupid people win


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## Open1Your1Eyes0

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kal777* 
this will kill your loop in the long run, but Auto radiator coolant is far better at removing heat than water. i did work experiance at a mechanics in 40*C heat and the coolant was still chilled. guess if it cools a block of steal that gets to 100*C then no issues cooling a CPU.

Yes but the problem with coolant is it can particulate and separate and will clog up your pump and waterblocks. A perfect example is all those dye based coolants. They work for a while but do you really want to experience the clog and then have to take it apart and clean it constantly? I wouldn't say the pros outweigh the cons.

I've heard all these stories of people asking about other coolants: auto coolant, milk, cat blood, human blood, liquid metal, liquid helium/nitrogen, antifreeze, etc... The fact is this all can be tried and theoretically done (though I question why some of the above) but I wouldn't recommend it for multiple reasons. Let's be practical about it, distilled water and some biocide (ie: PT Nuke) is really all you need to be realistic about watercooling your main rig. If you want to build something else and play around with it feel free but really, don't be stupid about it, know what you're dealing with and whether you think you can handle it properly if it's a dangerous substance. And most of all, make sure you are aware of all the pros and cons before going forth with the idea.


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## MR KROGOTH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Open1Your1Eyes0* 
Yes but the problem with coolant is it can particulate and separate and will clog up your pump and waterblocks. A perfect example is all those dye based coolants. They work for a while but do you really want to experience the clog and then have to take it apart and clean it constantly? I wouldn't say the pros outweigh the cons.

I've heard all these stories of people asking about other coolants: auto coolant, milk, *cat blood*, *human blood*, liquid metal, liquid helium/nitrogen, antifreeze, etc... The fact is this all can be tried and theoretically done (though I question why some of the above) but I wouldn't recommend it for multiple reasons. Let's be practical about it, distilled water and some biocide (ie: PT Nuke) is really all you need to be realistic about watercooling your main rig. If you want to build something else and play around with it feel free but really, don't be stupid about, know what you're dealing with and whether you think you can handle it properly if it's a dangerous substance. And most of all, make sure you are aware of all the pros and cons before going forth with the idea.

Where in the world would you get this from? The blood? You cant just go around like "hey kitty SLICE blood." anymore you know?


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## Ati Rider

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kal777* 
this will kill your loop in the long run, but Auto radiator coolant is far better at removing heat than water. i did work experiance at a mechanics in 40*C heat and the coolant was still chilled. guess if it cools a block of steal that gets to 100*C then no issues cooling a CPU.

What about motocross coolant like this one

http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/in...products_id=38

This is what i use in my YZ125 and the rads and engine head are both aluminum...

Im new to water cooling for computers, still learning









I would think it is good but idk if could have negative effects on the pc water cooler components..?


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## Open1Your1Eyes0

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MR KROGOTH* 
Where in the world would you get this from?

Believe me, people have made threads about it, and I have wondered just the same.

EDIT: *Example*


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## MR KROGOTH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Open1Your1Eyes0* 
Believe me, people have made threads about it, and I have wondered just the same.

EDIT: *Example*

such a strange world we live in.


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## wumpus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chroma* 
Disclaimer: This is a bad idea in real life!!!

Just for kicks-







- I've been wondering if it might work well (except for the whole it-will-kill-you part and the it-will-****-your-hardware-in-a-spill)

So, if we replaced the water in the water cooling system with mercury, I wonder how well it might perform. Assuming, of course, we replaced the components with stuff that was designed to handle liquid mercury.

If we used a pump, radiator, tubing, and waterblock that was designed to handle the stuff, I have a feeling it might work as well or better than water. What do you think?









Edit:
Looking it up, Mercury has a thermal conductivity of 8.3 W/(mK) while water is 0.67 W/(mK). http://www.koolance.com/technical/cooling101/002.html

one problem - check out the specific heat capacity!


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## Open1Your1Eyes0

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MR KROGOTH* 
such a strange world we live in.

An even stranger example I forgot to add in to the list: *Link*

Second post sums up my obvious thoughts.


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## pieisgood2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ati Rider* 
What about motocross coolant like this one

http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/in...products_id=38

This is what i use in my YZ125 and the rads and engine head are both aluminum...

Im new to water cooling for computers, still learning









I would think it is good but idk if could have negative effects on the pc water cooler components..?

that stuff seems pretty legit. it's just deionized water and antifreeze. you should give it a try when you get a chance and see how it works.


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## MR KROGOTH

the water in my water cooling system looks like urine... :/ its seriously used to be green. now its yellow. And did anybody think about adding large amounts of maybe MX-3 or AS5 to the water/coolant? i imagine this would only help


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## Midnightorion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kal777* 
this will kill your loop in the long run, but Auto radiator coolant is far better at removing heat than water. i did work experiance at a mechanics in 40*C heat and the coolant was still chilled. guess if it cools a block of steal that gets to 100*C then no issues cooling a CPU.

I was an automechnic for 10 years and never found any Antifreeze that cools better than water. Which stuff are you refering to?
Coolant found in a vehicle is made to be anticorrisive, lubricant and the obvious, antifreeze. But as for being able to cool your vehicle down to 225 degrees and keep it there, thats what the thermostat, radiator and fan are for. Most vehicles, anything 96 and newer generally, run around 225 degrees give or take a little, anything above or below for too long will set off your engine light.
Anyway, the reason you cut your Antifreeze in half is cause if you buy the uncut stuff, it won't cool as well as if you cut it 50/50 with water.

Don't get me wrong, you can use Antifreeze in your loop, but its not going to cool better than water.


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## SalisburySteak

wouldn't gold be good for a block? correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought gold works great with heat.


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## MR KROGOTH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SalisburySteak* 
wouldn't gold be good for a block? correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought gold works great with heat.

Copper is just a leeetle bit more thermally conductive, but by electrical conductivity gold has copper by the balls.


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## Saiyansnake

I'm still waiting for someone to go to Pluto and find some ultra cold minerals there that you can just put on top your CPU







You could get 1 Terahertz with 1c at load





















1THz


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## SalisburySteak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Saiyansnake* 
I'm still waiting for someone to go to Pluto and find some ultra cold minerals there that you can just put on top your CPU







You could get 1 Terahertz with 1c at load





















1THz
















Just aim for the QHz (Quadhertz?)


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## floodx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle2194* 
It has very low specific heat capacity (about 0.034 that of water), so is very quickly saturated with the heat of the system. You'd need loads of mercury and a very fast cooling radiator setup. Also, it expands dramatically when warm (hence its use in thermometers) thus requiring considerable overflow space in your res.

Ignoring the general silliness/lethality of the whole idea, Kyle sums it up best.

While mercury does have better thermal conductivity, it can't hold nearly as much heat as water. This is the biggest obstacle I see. Everything else can be overcome with enough determination.


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## Chroma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pieisgood2* 
gallium would also work and it won't absorb into your skin. don't get me wrong all metals are potentially harmful if you ingest them. it's just that mercury will seep through your skin and gallium won't or at least for the most part.

Would be interesting... Wonder about Galinstan? (Wikipedia says it's: 68.5% Ga, 21.5% In, 10% Sn and melts at -19C). Seems like thermal expansion could be a problem. Maybe someday someone somewhere will be stupid enough to try Galinstan or Mercury for real







. Then they can tell us how it went!

And about the heat capacity... that... would certainly be a problem.

Wonder about colloidal silver or copper (or gold or diamond







) in something like methanol or fluoroinert to prevent oxidation? Would be interesting, at least.


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## mindblowingj

Ok, so recently I've seen this discussed in many threads and I've been planning to try and draw some models and will want input and ideas on this.

The #1 problem with magnesium and most ferrofluids is the heat capacity it has, being toxic and dangerous for your machine is trivial as you wouldn't want distilled water on your PC even if it's not supposed to do anything. The heat capacity problem can be solved the easiest by:
1) Bringing another cooling element (or displacing more air in the case of fans)
2) Having a larger radiator
3) Having a faster flowrate

As #1 defeats the whole purpose and definition of what this loop is if you chill it or use a TEC, I don't think it would be any good, just more complicated and more data.
#2 Is just plain common sense, but you could have a gigantic radiator filled with water and achieve good results, nothing too good here again.
#3 Seems like the best option considering it's a problem with magnesium, but also most ferrofluids, which could be more efficient in this experiment.

Someone has brought to my attention that an electromagnetic pump would be the best solution since you could achieve extremely high flowrates given the good parts but that it was costly, so I tried to think up some models with say, an arduino and a few solenoids but seems like a quick search on ebay shows that we could find just the right thing for not much of an investment.

Comes in the search for the right fluid to use because mercury as it is the original idea isin't really the most efficient for this concept.

So things to keep in mind: 1-heat capacity, 2-thermal conductivity, 3-viscosity, 4-thermal expansion, 5-Corrosion and other hazards


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## Tsar

Necro!

But an interesting fact:

Clementine the nuclear reactor was cooled with liquid mercury, so it is plausible.

But Molten Sodium would be better.


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## mindblowingj

As much as I said the "danger" factor of mercury wasen't really a problem in my opinion, a mass quantity of sodium just screams trouble ?! In the state you're talking of, is it inert or wont react to ambient humidity ? Because having poison running around a loop is one thing, but a liquid bomb sounds like trouble?!

Oh and yah, total necro, I was about to start a thread and realiszed that theres one with same name, why not use it and make a real discussion. Yah for now I have a general concept of what I want to achieve, just want to make sure mercury would be the best liquid to try it with. ^^


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## Tsar

Many reactors use Sodium but it has to be kept away from air as it gets all explody.

Carbon Dioxide is used in Magnox reactors, so that could work.

This is all coming from research into reactors so if it is good enough for one of them I see no reason it wouldn't work for a PC.


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## mindblowingj

Carbon dioxide isin't an option as the pressure required to keep it in it's liquid form is to great to make it usable in a loop. Maybe I just need to grow some balls and accept sodium as an idea, but again it has quite the high boiling point so it would need to be fairly diluted (hell no I'm not making that mix ^^ loll) and I feel like an aqueous solution wouldn't perform all that well since it has the same issue with a low-ish heat capacity.. I wish I knew more liquid metals.. Or had some info.


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## markovian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene if u could use this stuff u wouldent even need a liquid


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## Fieldsweeper

So why not use a diamond heat-sink, with diamond (hollow) tubing pumping liquid Hg.

or instead of Hg, Use Bose-Einstein Condensation. of course you would have to worry about your entire computer becoming superconductive, and the possibility of the superfluous liquid(quantum liquid at that temp (1 Millionth of a degree above Absolute zero ((o degrees K)) keep in mind liquid Helium is 4 degrees K and that's about -269 degrees Celsius

or laser cooling that metal (use sodium) to 1/1,000,000th of a degree above 0K (absolute zero)

Or by using Magnetic cooling which is capable of 100pK or 1/10th of 1/billionth of a degree above 0K (absolute zero) keep in mind that the deepest parts of space is a scalding 3K (3 degrees above absolute zero) this is because space isn't a PERFECT vacuum, it still has SOME molecules spread out through out which radiate slight amounts of heat.

Ln2 is 77K btw for all you extreme overclockers, at 30cents a liter, I prefer to go for Liquid Helium that's 14dollars a liter, of course watch out for the metals in your computer to become superconductive. lol.

and once the liquid is superfluous (zero viscosity) it wont need a pump, it is zero friction, it will flow indefinitely as long as the temp remains






^^ AWESOME video.


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## Fieldsweeper

OH and btw using Mercury would beside the health issues, be less efficient at it. as it is only 12 times more conductive, its 30 times less efficient at holding the heat.


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## Fieldsweeper

what I mean is is that it would get saturated with the heat too fast, and not be able to disperse it as quick.

(if i am explaining that correctly) lol


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## Fieldsweeper

damn wish i could edit these lol, not to mention the shear fact that mercury is 13 times more dense (heavy) also near impossible to pump without special pumps.( i believe) i think that more or less depends on viscosity, but density probably plays a role in that too. im not overly knowledgeable on fluid dynamics


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## altsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> So why not use a diamond heat-sink, with diamond (hollow) tubing pumping liquid Hg.


+1 on the diamond heat-sink. Saw a documentary where they demonstrated that a thin film diamond plate conducted heat so well it could cut through ice using only the heat in your hand.... Insane stuff

But for transfer fluid, water. The only liquids that do well in terms of heat capacity is water and ammonia. Ammonia more as a refrigerant as it uses phase change in the cooling process(also the R-xxx refrigerants). The heat capacity is the measure of how much energy is required to increase the temperature of 1 gram material by 1 degree Kelvin. So even if you have a high heat transfer metalic fluid, it would take less energy to heat it up. The total heat capacity of the same loop using water would still be higher. The only practical way to overcome this is to use a lot more Hg, bigger res, bigger rads, longer loop.

Volumetric heat capacity of Mercury is lower than water (1.888 vs 4.18)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

-experience -> engineering thermodynamics.


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## Tsar

Well if you want to use molten metal then Lead is always an option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-cooled_fast_reactor

A bit more complicated but it is plausible.


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## runs2far

You would not gain much from exotic materials in the cooling loop because water is good enough at moving heat.
Having a loop that is better at transferring heat to the radiator will not gain a lot, because the important part is to get the heat out of the loop.


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## Ashuiegi

a 25 million dollar cold plant produce 9 grams of liquid helium every second and use in excess of 25 KW of power , liquid helium is just for the show , it will never be an option and the price is always rising because we don't have a good efficient supply of helium except one reserve/storage in an old oil pocket in usa.

AND NO helium is the coldest even more then hydrogen , for complicated reason but it is.

mercury is so thick is will flow very badly and leave many turbulent aera where you don't have flow and they can overheat.
mercury have a thermal conductivity of 8,4 W/m*K ( silver is at 427 W/m*K and water is at 0,561 W/m*k) this mean of course it s better then water and dilatation is about the same too.
but it has a small small specific heat of 0,14 E 3 J/kg*K compare to 4,18 E 3 J/kg*K this mean your mercure takes 30 times less energy to heat up 1 degrees , meaning it have to flow considerably faster or it will accumulate heat and you need a bigger volume of coolant too , which is not pratical

and it s true the best heat dissipation is for carbon in diamond form , it s also the best insulation , and best of all it have a very very small dilatation coef. but it only exist in solid form would be hard to make flow









mercury is used to pump air as vacuum pump, liquid ring mercury and some of the first good vacuum pump : mercury vapor jet , these are the pump that were used in accelerator and experiment in the manathan project


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## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altsanity*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> So why not use a diamond heat-sink, with diamond (hollow) tubing pumping liquid Hg.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 on the diamond heat-sink. Saw a documentary where they demonstrated that a thin film diamond plate conducted heat so well it could cut through ice using only the heat in your hand.... Insane stuff
> 
> But for transfer fluid, water. The only liquids that do well in terms of heat capacity is water and ammonia. Ammonia more as a refrigerant as it uses phase change in the cooling process(also the R-xxx refrigerants). The heat capacity is the measure of how much energy is required to increase the temperature of 1 gram material by 1 degree Kelvin. So even if you have a high heat transfer metalic fluid, it would take less energy to heat it up. The total heat capacity of the same loop using water would still be higher. The only practical way to overcome this is to use a lot more Hg, bigger res, bigger rads, longer loop.
> 
> Volumetric heat capacity of Mercury is lower than water (1.888 vs 4.18)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity
> 
> -experience -> engineering thermodynamics.
Click to expand...

You don't need to use liquid water, using a gas can be better, look at hydrogen, it has 3.5 times better transfer ability than water. just flow gas hydrogen thru it. (or liquid as it would not only be cold, but also have a better conductivity. (as the cooling medium)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsar*
> 
> Well if you want to use molten metal then Lead is always an option.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-cooled_fast_reactor
> 
> A bit more complicated but it is plausible.


the Molten part makes your idea really backwards, that only works if the components are hot enough that its whats causing the lead to melt lol. in this case of Computers you would fry the cpu before you even turn the computer on. you must also not know much about chemistry since you seem to have failed to realize that liquid mercury is just that. it is the only metal that is a liquid at 1 atmosphere and "room" temp
and is itself not "molten" although TECHNICALLY it is molten because it's "melting" point is -38 degrees C, but boiling temp is 630 C so it is liquid for the widest range of all metals.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runs2far*
> 
> You would not gain much from exotic materials in the cooling loop because water is good enough at moving heat.
> Having a loop that is better at transferring heat to the radiator will not gain a lot, because the important part is to get the heat out of the loop.


as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)

obv we are all speaking strictly hypothetically as more of a joke about the original post which was also kind of a joke as well. ( i hope) because the heating of it would release vapors etc its extreme toxicity not to mention that spilling any of it is extremely expensive to clean up (hazmat teams etc)


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## mindblowingj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> damn wish i could edit these lol, not to mention the shear fact that mercury is 13 times more dense (heavy) also near impossible to pump without special pumps.( i believe) i think that more or less depends on viscosity, but density probably plays a role in that too. im not overly knowledgeable on fluid dynamics


Yup the whole point of what I was explaining in my 1st post was this, the idea is to use a ferrofluid with a higher heat capacity than mercury. As viscosity and heat capacity are the 2 only real problems of using liquid metals in a loop. An electromagnetic pump is the pump you would need to solve the flowrate problem (viscosity and weight aren't a problem anymore) and also needs to not expand too much with variance in temprature, and have a boiling point that works with normal room temperatures and CPU's.. Ill just make a thread precising this and gathering the info I posted in multiple places about this I guess.


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## Tsar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> You don't need to use liquid water, using a gas can be better, look at hydrogen, it has 3.5 times better transfer ability than water. just flow gas hydrogen thru it. (or liquid as it would not only be cold, but also have a better conductivity. (as the cooling medium)
> the Molten part makes your idea really backwards, that only works if the components are hot enough that its whats causing the lead to melt lol. in this case of Computers you would fry the cpu before you even turn the computer on. you must also not know much about chemistry since you seem to have failed to realize that liquid mercury is just that. it is the only metal that is a liquid at 1 atmosphere and "room" temp
> and is itself not "molten" although TECHNICALLY it is molten because it's "melting" point is -38 degrees C, but boiling temp is 630 C so it is liquid for the widest range of all metals.
> as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)
> 
> obv we are all speaking strictly hypothetically as more of a joke about the original post which was also kind of a joke as well. ( i hope) because the heating of it would release vapors etc its extreme toxicity not to mention that spilling any of it is extremely expensive to clean up (hazmat teams etc)


At no point did I say that Mercury was Molten. I said that it is plausible to use molten metals. We are not discussing regular cooling here, it is a theoretical discussion about dissipating large amounts of heat.

Hence why we were not talking about water.


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## Ashuiegi

All metal have low specific heat which is bad for a coolant.
it slightly better in liquid from but it still way too bad to use as coolant.
in case of pump failure you would fry everything because the temp would rise between 20 and 50 time faster then with water.


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## runs2far

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)


I'm not arguing against improving the cooling setup. I just don't see a benefit from the hypothetical idea of replacing the water in a water cooling setup.
If everything in a existing loop could work with mercury, the benefit would be very small, as water is very good at moving heat from the CPU/GPU to the radiator.
There will be a bigger gain from improving the movement of heat to the loop at the GPU/CPU and from the loop at the radiator rather than the fluid transporting the heat.

BTW, liquid metal cooling has been used and abandoned again:
http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/16980-danamics-gives-lm10-cooler-focussing-liquid-metal-products-instead/


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## Tsar

Liquid Metal has been used with great success with large amounts of heat.

But I didn't realize we were talking about consumer grade computing, so with that I withdraw.


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## Tsar

Liquid Metal has been used with great success with large amounts of heat.

But I didn't realize we were talking about consumer grade computing, so with that I withdraw.


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## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> a 25 million dollar cold plant produce 9 grams of liquid helium every second and use in excess of 25 KW of power , liquid helium is just for the show , it will never be an option and the price is always rising because we don't have a good efficient supply of helium except one reserve/storage in an old oil pocket in usa.
> 
> AND NO helium is the coldest even more then hydrogen , for complicated reason but it is.
> 
> mercury is so thick is will flow very badly and leave many turbulent aera where you don't have flow and they can overheat.
> mercury have a thermal conductivity of 8,4 W/m*K ( silver is at 427 W/m*K and water is at 0,561 W/m*k) this mean of course it s better then water and dilatation is about the same too.
> but it has a small small thermal capacity of 0,14 E 3 J/kg*K compare to 4,18 E 3 J/kg*K this mean your mercure takes 30 times less energy to heat up 1 degrees , meaning it have to flow considerably faster or it will accumulate heat and you need a bigger volume of coolant too , which is not pratical
> 
> and it s true the best heat dissipation is for carbon in diamond form , it s also the best insulation , and best of all it have a very very small dilatation coef. but it only exist in solid form would be hard to make flow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mercury is used to pump air as vacuum pump, liquid ring mercury and some of the first good vacuum pump : mercury vapor jet , these are the pump that were used in accelerator and experiment in the manathan project


GOD you speak such bad english I had to read what you typed twice. 1) why "AND NO" never mentioned hydrogen lmao, I was talking about liquid helium, as the coldest liquid, it does not take that big of plant / energy to make it, you can by it from most welding stores/ shops (some anyways) it is not cheap but it isnt THAT expensive, it is only 14 dollars per liter, and as CPU cooling goes, LN2 is a hobby type quick runs, so using liquid helium wouldn't be completely out of the question. oh and you can get Helium liquifiers ranging from 3550 liters to 3500 liters per hour, from some suppliers and i am sure there are even larger ones out there.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> All metal have low specific heat which is bad for a coolant.
> it slightly better in liquid from but it still way too bad to use as coolant.
> in case of pump failure you would fry everything because the temp would rise between 20 and 50 time faster then with water.


Ya its a simple as physics balancing the equation, the faster something can move heat, the faster it heats up lol, therefore it gets saturated with heat quicker. and obv metals are a prime example of that.


----------



## mindblowingj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runs2far*
> 
> BTW, liquid metal cooling has been used and abandoned again:
> http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/16980-danamics-gives-lm10-cooler-focussing-liquid-metal-products-instead/


This, in a much larger setup, using an external electromagnetic pump, its just liquid metal acting the same way as in an evaporation chamber in heatsinks. If it were combined to a pump and real radiator it would probably be amazing. Its the most realistic way to approach this "realistically"


----------



## Ashuiegi

i worked for the biggest user of liquid helium in the world , i did one years in cryogenics control making control logic for helium cold box.
The biggest cold box ever made are used there, but the example i was taking is a is a cheap old one , i don't want to convert 9 gram per second into liter per hour but it might not be that far from what you said.
You have many other problem that come with colder temp and add costs , neoprene wont do the job at 5K , you get some cryogenic pumping going on , and some solid oxygen forming , which is quite dangerous.
The quantity of helium at disposition is not that huge ( they pump it from underground pocket, they don't use the helium in the air) and demand keep increasing all the time , i can tell you they were very worried by the price doubling in less then 10 years and problems finding supplier for large amount.
The cold box need a huge compressor to work , around 12-15 KW , you need to have some turbo-expander that cost around 250000 dollar and turn at excess of 100000 turn/min on magnetic bearings.
These need a braking system with compressed water. you need a good vacuum pump for the insulation of the cold box too.
If you factor the control racks and SCADA system too you get to these energy consumption and huge costs.

I didn't say i would cost to much to buy for an individual i meant it s not a practical solution, but i guess you could say the same for liquid ln2 anyway, but ln2 is really cheaper to make , in fact you can use some liquid ln2 to pre-cool helium in the cold box in order to boost the productivity.

it might be cheaper in the us as most of the helium storages are there and they only sell a given quantity outside of us.


----------



## mindblowingj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> and some solid oxygen forming , which is quite dangerous..


"quite dangerous" I laughed, real hard, was just imagining a pouch of oxygen exploding around the system out of nowhere without you expecting it xD.


----------



## Ashuiegi

is turn back into gas and you get higher concentration which becomes dangerous specially next to electronics and electricity.
they use vacuum insulated pipe to move it around , it would be hard to make a vacuum insulated mobo and pot i guess.
but exactly what you said might happen, if you do it outside you would be more or less fine.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> i worked for the biggest user of liquid helium in the world , i did one years in cryogenics control making control logic for helium cold box.
> The biggest cold box ever made are used there, but the example i was taking is a is a cheap old one , i don't want to convert 9 gram per second into liter per hour but it might not be that far from what you said.
> You have many other problem that come with colder temp and add costs , neoprene wont do the job at 5K , you get some cryogenic pumping going on , and some solid oxygen forming , which is quite dangerous.
> The quantity of helium at disposition is not that huge ( they pump it from underground pocket, they don't use the helium in the air) and demand keep increasing all the time , i can tell you they were very worried by the price doubling in less then 10 years and problems finding supplier for large amount.
> The cold box need a huge compressor to work , around 12-15 KW , you need to have some turbo-expander that cost around 250000 dollar and turn at excess of 100000 turn/min on magnetic bearings.
> These need a braking system with compressed water. you need a good vacuum pump for the insulation of the cold box too.
> If you factor the control racks and SCADA system too you get to these energy consumption and huge costs.
> 
> I didn't say i would cost to much to buy for an individual i meant it s not a practical solution, but i guess you could say the same for liquid ln2 anyway, but ln2 is really cheaper to make , in fact you can use some liquid ln2 to pre-cool helium in the cold box in order to boost the productivity.
> 
> it might be cheaper in the us as most of the helium storages are there and they only sell a given quantity outside of us.


That's how hospitals conserve their liquid helium cooled MRI machines by surrounding it in liquid nitrogen.

also Liters is a measure of volume and grams is a measure of weight, so "converting" it is based on the density / mass of the thing you are trying to convert.

so where did you work? what did you do there? seems they don't require English courses in your degree, if you have one.

btw some lower machines do 14-250 liters per hour and some larger do 350-3500 liters per hour. so assuming yours was the largest in the world lets assume its the full 3500 liters per hour, even though I am SURE there are larger machines that are custom made, as this example is from: http://www.linde-kryotechnik.ch/1259/1260/1308/1310.asp

at 3500 L/hr thats 56 L/min and .97 liters per second. I can assure that is WAY more than 9 grams haha..

but lets round that ALL THE WAY DOWN to .5 liters (for the math) so lets say you are running at less than optimal at .5 litters a second at the weight of LHe:

The density of liquid helium-4 (most common for this aspect) at its boiling point (4°K) and 1 ATM (standard pressure) is approximately 0.125 g/mL.
1 Liter would weigh around 125 grams or 4.4 oz.

devide that by 2 for 50% efficiancy so 1/2 litter of LHe is about 62.5 grams a second or at 3500liters per hour that's 121 grams a second. where did you go to school ?


----------



## Fieldsweeper

divide*

efficiency**

sorry its like 7 am here haven't been to bed lol.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

btw O2 wont freeze right out of the air like that, its combined and not submerged, you CAN get very small condensation that forms directly on the LHe apparatus that begins to evap the LN2 first then you will have liquid O2 droplets, POSSIBLY, but this has been done before with barely any additive precautions than overclocking with LN2 watch the vids i posted.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> is turn back into gas and you get higher concentration which becomes dangerous specially next to electronics and electricity.
> they use vacuum insulated pipe to move it around , it would be hard to make a vacuum insulated mobo and pot i guess.
> but exactly what you said might happen, if you do it outside you would be more or less fine.


the expansion is PURELY for asphyxiation NOT explosive haha, dude electronics wont do crap to helium, its inert. its expansion is only a small bit more than that of LN2 expanding to Nitrogen gas. so take the same precautions and you will be JUST FINE>


----------



## L D4WG

What if you filled the loop with aloe gel.



When air travels over this its like the coming of an ice age on your skin, can only imagine it would work as well for a put.

You could probably run your CPU without a cooler and just apply the gel directly to the surface and blow on it...


----------



## Fieldsweeper

https://www.google.com/search?q=buldozer+liquid+helim&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#q=bulldozer+liquid+helium&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=O3V&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=oqViUYLVDuzG0AG49YCYCw&ved=0CDoQqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44770516,d.dmQ&fp=b7bd67e6ac8d0005&biw=1920&bih=977


----------



## Ashuiegi

Fieldsweeper not to helium , can't you read , it oxygen being freezed by the temperature of helium , pffff , if you don't understand cryogenic don't even try to argue.
i have seen pipe broken by the amount of frozen ln2 and O2 on them , you have no idea

i simply don't want to bother making calcul to prove anything to you , you just went and took number from manufacturer and you have no idea what conditions or requirements are needed to reach these production level , i m talking about experience , i had specifications , PiD and SCADA system values to back up what i m saying,....
i was working at CERN.
you clearly never worked in international research center because most people can't even write half as good as me ,but everybody understand each other on matter way more complicated, even the head of whole groupe at CERN couldn't speak english properly. maybe it s just bad will no ?


----------



## Fieldsweeper

yes but at standard atmospheric you wont have any problem with that. watch this:

btw if it has LHe flowing thru it, i don't see how the liquid nitrogen or O2 was part of the problem of it breaking lol. unless you as the lab assistant sat on it.

at I have used LHe before, I actually do know a bit about chemistry. and a little about physics as well.















 << at least watch this one for sure.

this has been done plenty of times before, I am telling you as long as you take the precautions of LN2, you will be ok. yes it is colder.

but as you said the Oxygen condensed on the pipes so it didn't explode ? see told you. as long as you don't mix it with FIRE or combustible materials you will be plenty ok.

btw as long as you have O2 in the air you should be fine in fact technical diving after a certain pressure you need to start breathing Helium at about 80% helium and 20% O2 so you can stand the pressures and prevent nitrogen narcosis.


----------



## taafe

It will also expand when heated and blow your loop. Im sure watercooling loop companies thought of this when doing a brain search.. Maybe?


----------



## Ashuiegi

yeah surely that why they spend million insulating everything with vacuum,.... , but the helium goes down to 2,1K superfluid lHe closer to the lhc too.
what quantity and size of pipe are you talking about ? it s a tiny tiny amount but when you have 10 cm LN316 steel pipe with a good volume of liquid helium passing, it began to do something called cryogenic pumping and it can lead to astonishing amount of frost or if you use neoprene like isolation it will be sucked down on the pipe and all the air goes out of the isolation which render it useless then it start to do some cryopumping.

it doesn't happen here because as you can see in the first video you posted they only get minus 225 out of their block , which is far from the true temp of liquid He,.... at these temp i agree the risk is minimal but closer to absolute it s a real danger , even if it seems to bother you a lot.


----------



## Bloodcore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> What if you filled the loop with aloe gel.
> When air travels over this its like the coming of an ice age on your skin, can only imagine it would work as well for a put.
> You could probably run your CPU without a cooler and just apply the gel directly to the surface and blow on it...


----------



## Fieldsweeper

WOW< morons, not contained, you would do it the same as LN2, DUH, using a POT. like I said if you would stop making excuses on ill knowledge and watch the several clips I posted then you will see how its done and how safe it really is. and LHe is only 4 K yes it can become superfluous IF you cool it down more but that requires special apparatus's so like i said several posts before, you won't have to worry about the liquid becoming superfluous.

and as the boiling temp is 4K ,, it requires MUCH more things to go much lower than that, like laser cooling (1/10th of 1/billionth of 1K) or magnetic cooling (also very complex methods)

you will not see it get any lower than its boiling temp.

not like this, in a lab with the PROPER setup you CAN get it superfluous but not by its self.

btw 50 degrees less to the true boiling point of He isnt going to matter either, the temp they have is still capable of liquifying oxygen, but as i said before you can see how they do it, and it is quite safe. its not like the second you pour the LHe your room frosts over and you become mr. freeze, and the air becomes so O2 rich you farting explodes in a rapid expansion combined with the oxidizer and you are now in space as you make it seem. ( exaggeration)

and thats one vid, just YouTube Lhe you will see plenty of similar examples cooling very very close to 4k or so. not ALL the way but thats because they have the Pot on a heat source (the cpu) the process is pretty much identical to LN2 cooling. I am not speaking in terms of longevity here, only single runs like LN2 cooling / overclocking. like record breaking attempts etc.)

buy them here:

http://kingpincooling.com/
keep in mind the 8.5 Ghz was with an amd 8150 now that the new 8350 is out, can't wait to see that they do next.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bloodcore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> What if you filled the loop with aloe gel.
> When air travels over this its like the coming of an ice age on your skin, can only imagine it would work as well for a put.
> You could probably run your CPU without a cooler and just apply the gel directly to the surface and blow on it...
Click to expand...

lol, well as the OP title states I am sure they are BOTH troll posts haha


----------



## Ashuiegi

HAHA , how can you say such stupid thing , the lHe in the lhc is at 2,1 K and it is superfluids at some point of the loop , it only need 2 cold box , the first goes down to 4,5K and the second take it to 2,1K what is important is not the temp of the helium vaporizing but the temp of the wall of the container ehich in this case is about 50K , you obviously don't know anything about cryogenics if you think 50K would change nothing for cryopumping. the gas in the pot are not at atmospheric ,it s under pressure, that's why it s much hotter and you can see it clearly shooting out of the pot ,.... at 1.06 bars helium is at 4,5K ,..... and by the way Lhe is nearly never left to boil in a open system unless it just for playing like computer bench, nobody can afford to waste it like that on larger scale.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> HAHA , how can you say such stupid thing , the lHe in the lhc is at 2,1 K and it is superfluids at some point of the loop , it only need 2 cold box , the first goes down to 4,5K and the second take it to 2,1K what is important is not the temp of the helium vaporizing but the temp of the wall of the container ehich in this case is about 50K , you obviously don't know anything about cryogenics if you think 50K would change nothing for cryopumping. the gas in the pot are not at atmospheric ,it s under pressure, that's why it s much hotter and you can see it clearly shooting out of the pot ,.... at 1.06 bars helium is at 4,5K ,..... and by the way Lhe is nearly never left to boil in a open system unless it just for playing like computer bench, nobody can afford to waste it like that on larger scale.


\

the pot is NOT under pressure it is open moron, and I meant that 50k wont matter when pouring it into a container thats NOT sealed or pressurized, also the only way to cool the liquid helium below 4K is in a vacuum. pull out the pressure and it will continue to drop in temp until it begins to leak thru the container and up out the sides. like i have been saying and as my last post. this will not happen under ANY circumstances on its own in side of a CPU pot.

research how to take helium down below 4k and you will see that once it reaches the lambda point then it becomes superfluous. and yes 50 degrees LOWER than 4k which isnt possible but i am sying THE 50 degrees difference than the video showed at about -220C degrees and the 4K (-270 C) that's the 50 i was talking about. if the CPU temp was -220C the 50 degree difference wont matter, if you did get it to -270C you would still not have a super fluid. thats what I was saying.

I will chock this up as your inability to speak clear English, and be done. good day. lab assistant

btw helium don't become a super fluid until 2.17K you think pouring it into a pot will bring it that far down? the colder you get the harder and longer it takes to cool things down so from 4K to 2K is x power but but 2k - 1K is like x^n power (im not sure that's the direct correlation but im just trying to prove a point)


----------



## Fieldsweeper

edited in wrong section sorry... disregard this post


----------



## Alatar

Guys, stop it with the insults.

LHe will only get you down to around -230C when it comes to CPU cooling, it's added after the pot has been cooled by LN2, sometimes extra LN2 is added to keep the LHe from boiling so fast. LHe is used by directly adding it to the bottom of the pot (open of course) through some flexible transfer tube (or whatever they call the thing that you use to take the LHe from the dewar) It can't be poured like LN2 can.

With LHe the biggest problem is finding chips that actually benefit from the cold, most intel chips for example would most likely cold bug by the time they reach -230C. LHe is also much harder to control than LN2, you need multiple guys handling the setup with LHe and controlling the pot temp becomes harder when you can't just pour more from a thermos.

Also at the moment the 8350 record is 8.795GHz.

For 24/7 stuff phase change and cascade phase change are pretty much the cream of the crop, DICE, LN2 and LHe are only useful for very short runs.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Guys, stop it with the insults.
> 
> LHe will only get you down to around -230C when it comes to CPU cooling, it's added after the pot has been cooled by LN2, sometimes extra LN2 is added to keep the LHe from boiling so fast. LHe is used by directly adding it to the bottom of the pot (open of course) through some flexible transfer tube (or whatever they call the thing that you use to take the LHe from the dewar) It can't be poured like LN2 can.
> 
> With LHe the biggest problem is finding chips that actually benefit from the cold, most intel chips for example would most likely cold bug by the time they reach -230C. LHe is also much harder to control than LN2, you need multiple guys handling the setup with LHe and controlling the pot temp becomes harder when you can't just pour more from a thermos.
> 
> Also at the moment the 8350 record is 8.795GHz.
> 
> For 24/7 stuff phase change and cascade phase change are pretty much the cream of the crop, DICE, LN2 and LHe are only useful for very short runs.


exactly what i was saying.


----------



## mindblowingj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fieldsweeper*
> 
> btw O2 wont freeze right out of the air like that, its combined and not submerged, you CAN get very small condensation that forms directly on the LHe apparatus that begins to evap the LN2 first then you will have liquid O2 droplets, POSSIBLY, but this has been done before with barely any additive precautions than overclocking with LN2 watch the vids i posted.


In the case of cooling by lasers and in many situations described in this thread, the speed at which heat would be taken away from atmosphere around the parts would make O2 freeze right out of the air, and yes it would be horribly dangerous. Nevertheless this has become an argument about chilling gasses and there are conversations elsewhere about that...


----------



## markovian

gaphen is still more thermaly conductive than dimond ... water and almost all other materials a simple heatsink out of that will outproforme almost anything maby not phase since it still cant go lower than ambiant i was going to make a sink out of it tell i saw the price i reasionable block will set u back about 2 grand


----------



## runs2far

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mindblowingj*
> 
> This, in a much larger setup, using an external electromagnetic pump, its just liquid metal acting the same way as in an evaporation chamber in heatsinks. If it were combined to a pump and real radiator it would probably be amazing. Its the most realistic way to approach this "realistically"


Going large scale would of course change things, I am only considering what I have seen in enthusiast size builds.
Going large scale, sub 0 degrees, OC records etc. makes water a potentially poor choice due to the physical properties of water.


----------



## Fieldsweeper

ya, If you want longevity like a cooling you can actually use the computer on, then LHe or LN2 will not work unless you have constant stream of ln2, but that will be very costly.

but if all you are trying to do is one run, and break a record, by all means. but I like to use my computer for gaming/ 3d etc..

so for me peliter, water or phase change is the best option still. not too much else out there, other than variants on those.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Water = 1 g/cm^3
Hg = 13.6 g/cm^3

Mercury would not work. It's way too dense. Also poison is kind of bad for you.









However, gallium might work. As far as I can tell, it is biologically inert. It's solid at room temperature but melts at under 30 degrees C or about 85 degrees Fahrenheit. Anything using liquid metal cooling is sure to be overclocked, so we can assume core temperatures high enough to melt it. Its density is 6.1 g/cm^3 as a liquid, though it transfers heat about 20% as well as mercury. If someone can pull this off, please tell me.


----------



## mindblowingj

It's too dense to be pumped by a normal pump,the pump would need to be electromagnetic ^^ In this (theoretical and insane) setup, the problem with scale has been solved as after much looking i found it's now easy to order a quite small powerful enough pump for a reasonable price. I have tried to bump this and didn't get any response, Ill try doing some autocad drawing incorporating all the positive ideas i've seen yet to make it work. Posting if i get time tomorrow !


----------



## Laureolus

Gallium eats metal however. Aluminum with a video, copper with via a research paper.. 



 http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/811932-smXmM0/native/811932.pdf


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Laureolus*
> 
> Gallium eats metal however. Aluminum with a video, copper with via a research paper..
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/811932-smXmM0/native/811932.pdf


:O Wow. Okay. I was not aware of that property. Don't use gallium.


----------



## Laureolus

Mercury reacts with aluminum/copper too. You'd have to find an alloy/metal that doesn't alloy with it to use as the radiator/heat sink. Iron, tantalum, tungsten, and platinum look like your options.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Unicorn urine and unobtanium nano fluid works better


----------



## kevmatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> :O Wow. Okay. I was not aware of that property. Don't use gallium.


Mercury does the same thing. It can eat through aluminum in seconds. That's why you can't take mercury thermometers on planes.


----------



## ramicio

Why are people so afraid of mercury? Every older person I know used to play with it in school and they're doing just fine.


----------



## Laureolus

Liquid mercury itself isn't going to kill you as long as you keep it cool, don't splash it wildly to avoid misting, and wear gloves(mercury is easily absorbed via the skin). The "Mad Hatter" image is from when they used dissolved mercury salts to turn fur into felt, and breathed the fumes which carried some mercury.

The problem with mercury is its industrial uses, which has lead to a buildup of it in certain environments. We've(as in the USA) just implanted an export ban on Mercury to stop its use as a cheap, but extremely toxic, mining tool.


----------



## ramicio

It's a huge atom. How is it easily absorbed into the skin? That's straight paranoia. Its harm is from vapors. More likely from a fluorescent tube than it vaporizing from swishing it around in your hand. I enjoy tuna, and I even take supplements that contain trace amounts of mercury, arsenic, lead, cadmium, and probably other scary elements.


----------



## BoredErica

'Mercury and many of its chemical compounds, especially organomercury compounds, can also be readily absorbed through direct contact with bare, or in some cases (such as [methylmercury]) insufficiently protected, skin. Mercury and its compounds are commonly used in chemical laboratories, hospitals, dental clinics, and facilities involved in the production of items such as fluorescent light bulbs, batteries, and explosives.[12]'

Just wear gloves. Be careful.


----------



## ramicio

False. It's a very large atom. It's not going to get absorbed through the skin unless you have some kind of wound.


----------



## BoredErica

It's paranoia to wear gloves when handling mercury? I mean, I've been forced to wear goggles and safety gear for ridiculously safe chemistry experiments before. Then I guess it's also paranoid to wear a grounding bracelet when working with computers...


----------



## ramicio

That's called liability. You don't have to do such things. As long as they tell you to wear them, they aren't liable for anything gone wrong. Yes, it is paranoid to wear grounding bracelets when working on computers. You can't build a charge just standing there. Touch a ground once and you're discharged. Safety gear is for sissies. They're nothing but a hindrance. The only safety gear that is acceptable is stuff like radiation suits and gas masks...because they are protecting a person from a literal danger is already known to exists. There is no guarantee that a piece of shrapnel will fly directly into your eye when using power tools.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramicio*
> 
> False. It's a very large atom. It's not going to get absorbed through the skin unless you have some kind of wound.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning
Quote:


> Mercury and many of its chemical compounds, especially organomercury compounds, can also be readily absorbed through direct contact with bare, or in some cases (such as [methylmercury]) insufficiently protected, skin.


http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/dangers-of-mercury/
Quote:


> Part of the reason mercury is extremely toxic is because it can enter the body through inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption.


http://www.mercury.utah.gov/health_effects.htm
Quote:


> Dermal Contact
> 
> Dermal contact is also a route of exposure to mercury with alkyl mercury compounds being particularly notorious. While few Utah residents come into direct contact with mercury or its compounds, skin absorption can be lethal. In 1997, a researcher named Karen Wetterhahn, from Dartmouth College in New Hampshire, died when a single drop of dimethylmercury passed through her protective latex glove and through her skin.


The rest of the world would like to disagree with you as far as anyone's concerned.


----------



## ramicio

Oooh, trendy wikipedia and a cleansing website. Those are sure to be completely unbiased. Frickin colloidal silver. Give me a break. So it's 6,999,999,999 against 1? I don't think so. People used to roll it around in their hands. No harm. It's too large of an atom to go through skin. Paranoia.


----------



## Laureolus

What does silver have to do with any of this? Just because one metal(which also happens to have a nice anti-bacterial effect) is safe to handle doesn't mean another is.

Given your aversion to basic safety equipment, we just don't see eye to eye. Admittedly, his sources are talking about mercury compounds and not pure mercury itself, but it's still something you don't want to be rolling around in your hand without gloves for fun.


----------



## drjulien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramicio*
> 
> Oooh, trendy wikipedia and a cleansing website. Those are sure to be completely unbiased. Frickin colloidal silver. Give me a break. So it's 6,999,999,999 against 1? I don't think so. People used to roll it around in their hands. No harm. It's too large of an atom to go through skin. Paranoia.


How arrogant to claim you're smarter than wikipedia and the US government. The atoms are "too large"? I never heard this complain before!

Mercury: atomic radius 150 pm (picometre)
By this logic, you should be safe pouring benzene on your hands because its molecule is larger: >300pm width and >150pm thickness.

PS: 'Thanks' for ruining this wonderful thread...










I want to thank everyone who contributed and hope we can restart the discussion.









[pratical discussion] Can we agree Hg is not performing well?

What is the goal here: keeping a CPU at room temperature or as low as possible?
Considering the 1st choice, water has a better balance of desirable conductivity and capacity. Yes the flow can be increased to improve the performance, but water's flow can be increased as well.

Summarizing the ideas of, notably Laureolus, mindblowingj and Fieldsweeper

peltier (thermoelectric) -> gold? heatsink -> water? -> aluminium radiator & pump -> air & fan


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## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjulien*
> 
> How arrogant to claim you're smarter than wikipedia and the US government. The atoms are "too large"? I never heard this complain before!
> 
> Mercury: atomic radius 150 pm (picometre)
> By this logic, you should be safe pouring benzene on your hands because its molecule is larger: >300pm width and >150pm thickness.
> 
> PS: 'Thanks' for ruining this wonderful thread...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to thank everyone who contributed and hope we can restart the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [pratical discussion] Can we agree Hg is not performing well?
> 
> What is the goal here: keeping a CPU at room temperature or as low as possible?
> Considering the 1st choice, water has a better balance of desirable conductivity and capacity. Yes the flow can be increased to improve the performance, but water's flow can be increased as well.
> 
> Summarizing the ideas of, notably Laureolus, mindblowingj and Fieldsweeper
> 
> peltier (thermoelectric) -> gold? heatsink -> water? -> aluminium radiator & pump -> air & fan


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## szeged

holy mother of necros lol

we should get someone to try to cool with something equally as stupid as mercury but less hazardous.

tomato soup?
tooth paste?
whiskey?


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## drjulien

Guilty.

But thou thread, she hast so vainly died at the hand of a heathen.

I request thee, original poster, from my keyboard to mould me a renewed thread? Did I solicit thee from darkness to promote me?


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## TastyRabbitStew

Your idea isn't stupid...

But the element - liquid metal you chose is.

A better element to look at would be Gallium.

It has a melting point of 30 degrees - however if you mix it with Indium and tin you get Gallistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan

This has a melting point of -19 degrees and is liquid at room temperature.

The problem with this is how to pump it and Gallium being reactive with other metals...
It should be fine if you coat everything with Nickle (with electro plate) and use a neodynium and some electrods to pump it.

The next thing is cost.... Its not cheap.

Pros:

Thermal conductivity: 16.5 W·m
High Viscosity means you'll need less flow rate


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## Blameless

High thermal conductivity does not replace the need for volumetric heat capacity, which is a property these metals fall well short of water in.

If anything, you'd need more flow to compensate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> The rest of the world would like to disagree with you as far as anyone's concerned.


Pure metallic mercury is not particularly dangerous unless it's vapor is inhaled, or you handle the liquid regularly for protracted periods of time.

References to compounds like dimethylmercury in this thread is like saying it's dangerous to watercool a PC because drinking liquid oxygen is bad.


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## PolyMorphist

Thread's TL;DR (without the whining and arguing):
Mercury could theoretically work to cool a computer component, however there would be way to many drawbacks that outweigh the positives for doing it. Firstly, Mercury, as we all know, is highly toxic and the vapour it produces is can damage the human body over a period of time. The pump pushing the liquid would also have to be quite hefty due to Mercury being approximately 12 times more dense (thicker) than water. Another concern is the fact that the Mercury would most likely erode the other metals used in the loop.

Now we an all go back to our wonderful lives, and put an end to the meaningless resource-googleing and chemistry-uttering.


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## drjulien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PolyMorphist*
> 
> Thread's TL;DR (without the whining and arguing):
> Mercury could theoretically work to cool a computer component, however there would be way to many drawbacks that outweigh the positives for doing it. Firstly, Mercury, as we all know, is highly toxic and ..........


How is it that people polluting the thread with complaining and no contribution OK but continuing the discussion on a "dead" thread SACRILEGE? Whatever.. And we live around toxic substances all the time. In a sealed system there are no vapors or contact. Continuing...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TastyRabbitStew*
> 
> ]
> A better element to look at would be Gallium.
> 
> It has a melting point of 30 degrees - however if you mix it with Indium and tin you get Gallistan
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan
> 
> This has a melting point of -19 degrees
> 
> [...]
> Pros:
> 
> Thermal conductivity: 16.5 W·m
> High Viscosity means you'll need less flow rate


Very good contribution. Nobody in this thread considered alloys yet. That alloy may be reactive - I'd love to try it anyway. The viscosity at higher temps (eg 20º) may be manageable? But my intuition is that coating everything in nickel or other stable materials in the system would be reducing effectiveness (added layer reduncing heat transmission).

But the thermal conductivity is so good it may be worth it (read: in an ideal world where all the hurdles are easy to manage). It is double that of mercury.

However mercury low melting point makes it much, much less viscous and we can target a lower coolant temperature for the system. So many variables, and we have not set target parameters for the system yet!


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## cinnamonrollz

nononononononononononononononononononononononono galium eats aluminum. if it touched any cpu cooler not pure copper, or the bracket for a cpu, or capacitor, the metal will fall apart like when you kick a sand castle.


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## RnRollie

see : http://www.overclock.net/t/753637/liquid-cooling-with-mercury/100_100#post_20944902


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## ZytheEKS

Oh god, it's back! Kill it with fire!


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## mindblowingj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZytheEKS*
> 
> Oh god, it's back! Kill it with fire!


Sketched for a week, listened to many people, read many books and datasheets. You could do it in a lab if you had many thousands of dollars and hours to throw away, and the end result would be vaguely close to watercooling in the end. I feel like that need a strong /thread


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