# Guide: AM3 CPU's Which Ram Speed is Faster and Which CPU-NB Clock is Best



## Dopamin3

I see many people asking questions about AMD memory settings and would like to post this guide as great information regarding the AM3 platform and memory. It has been very useful to me, especially because I really couldn't run 1600mhz stable. Mods you should sticky this as it is such a great read.

*I did not make this guide and take no credit for it, please give a big thank you to Tony over at OCZ Technology.
*
Here we go guys:

With popularity growing for AM3 and people looking to squeeze every last drop of performance from their Black Edition CPU i though i would investigate the best way to set up a system and see just which method of running the memory was faster.

Most feel higher numbers = better, so 1600MHZ ram should be better than 1333MHZ ram...prepare to be shocked and pleased all at the same time!

The key to Phenom 2 performance is the NB clock or memory controller clock, it is shown in the bios on most boards as CPU-NB or memory controller and has its own multiplier adjustment all of its own.

Stock speed is 2000, but this is FAR FROM BEST...you really do need to consider 2600MHZ or higher for you to get the best from your system.
So lets see my results and i will explain where you need to focus your tweaking efforts.

1333 6-6-6-24 1T and 1600 7-7-7-24 1T but with the NB-CPU clock at 2000, 2200, 2400, 2600, 2800 and 3000 with CPU @ 3.8GHZ as this is where the bulk of air and watercooled rigs will land.
Tests are super pi 32m and AutoGK encode DVD FILM 720X480 800MB VOB up scaled to 1280x960 AVI 160MP3 sound 350MB file.

time is converted to seconds for both test, lost the decimal places off PI as they were not needed









TEST WITH RAM AT 1333 6-6-6-24 1T










TEST WITH RAM AT 1600 7-7-7-24 1T










1333 RAM RESULTS:
32M pi 35secs faster with NB clock at 3000 over 2000
encode 47secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000

1600 RAM RESULTS
32M Pi 36 secs faster with NB at 3000 over 2000
encode 57secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000

So lets make this easy for you and drop the results on the same graphs


















As you see 1333 6-6-6-24 1t is faster than 7-7-7-24 1t for super Pi but slightly slower for encoding. What you need to note though is at around 2400MHZ CPU-NB encode test both 1333 and 1600 are so close its not worth bothering about...after that 1600 is faster as 1333 memory starts to become a bottleneck.

Update May16th 1:25AM...5-5-5-24 1t hits back. you guys looking for 1800MHZ ram at 8-8-8- or 9-9-9- forget it, with the NB around 2400 to 2800MHZ 5-5-5-24 1t 1333 is where you need to be.










And finally adding 6-6-6-24 1t 1600MHZ into the graph...for me 1333 5-5-5-24 1t is best, easier to do with most ram and for me allowed an easier OC on the CPU and the CPU-NB.










Moving on now we have a another domain we can overclock called HT let us see how overclocking this has an effect on 3D performance. 3870X2 Video card, stock clocks. 3dmark vantage
CPU @ 3.8GHZ, [email protected] 3GHZ, RAM @ 1600 7-7-7-24 1t










As you see 2000HT is faster by a mile than 2600HT so leave it at stock speeds...no tweaks needed









*Thanks again to Tony for such a great guide*


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## D3TH.GRUNT

nice guide man, i will definitely be coming back to this again and again


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## Afrodisiac

Damn, great info. Thanks for posting, +1.


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## Bartmasta

I've seen this guide before.

Anyways, the same applies to DDR2, right? Cause honestly I didn't notice a big difference when overclocking my ram.


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bartmasta* 
I've seen this guide before.

Anyways, the same applies to DDR2, right? Cause honestly I didn't notice a big difference when overclocking my ram.

It should essentially apply the same way for ddr2. I believe 1066 is very easy to achieve on DDR2 with AMD, so you can still clock your ram higher and increase northbridge speed. I would assume the higher the NB speed the better performance you would get, being similar to the AM3 platform. It should scale similarly.


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## Bartmasta

Well I clocked it from 800 5-5-5-16 so 1074 4-5-5-15 is already a lot.

My NB is @ 2617 MHz and I don't to go any higher unless I'm benching. Once I get a new cooler I will be able to increase my HT ref clock higher, but then my HT link would go above 2000, currently 2013.


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bartmasta* 
Well I clocked it from 800 5-5-5-16 so 1074 4-5-5-15 is already a lot.

My NB is @ 2617 MHz and I don't to go any higher unless I'm benching. Once I get a new cooler I will be able to increase my HT ref clock higher, but then my HT link would go above 2000, currently 2013.

Wow those patriot sticks clock very nicely. I hope you can push higher


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## eclipseaudio4

Very nice info! +1 rep and +1 for sticky!


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## videoman5

Hmph, my NB is at 2600, but so is my HT. Can you test lower HT speeds to see if 2000 Mhz is really what it should be kept at?


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
Hmph, my NB is at 2600, but so is my HT. Can you test lower HT speeds to see if 2000 Mhz is really what it should be kept at?

From what I understand, the default 2000mhz for HT Link is best. According to the last chart, the higher the HT Link is the worse the performance in 3dmark, so I assume it would be similar in other applications. You could do a quick test yourself but I don't think it will be any real world performance gains/losses. Maybe a few points in a benchmark.


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## djgarygillespie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dopamin3* 
I see many people asking questions about AMD memory settings and would like to post this guide as great information regarding the AM3 platform and memory. It has been very useful to me, especially because I really couldn't run 1600mhz stable.

So Iâ€™m torn between the OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK or OCZ3N1800SR4GK
I wanted to underclock the R4GK to get better timings and lower voltage, but it looks like this kit has more issues.
I see that the R4GK is supported on the Gigabyteâ€™s list and the M4GK is not.
So I just wanted to get your options on these two kits.


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## richierich1212

So how can we hit 1333MHz speeds with CL5? I thought the fastest 1333MHz available was with CL6?


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *djgarygillespie* 
So Iâ€™m torn between the OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK or OCZ3N1800SR4GK
I wanted to underclock the R4GK to get better timings and lower voltage, but it looks like this kit has more issues.
I see that the R4GK is supported on the Gigabyteâ€™s list and the M4GK is not.
So I just wanted to get your options on these two kits.

OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK is much better. They can do 1800mhz at those timings easily providing you're IMC can handle it (most AMD IMC can't handle 1500mhz+). They should be able to do 1700mhz @ 7-6-6-24 with 1.68v







In addition to that, they can clock pretty well with tighter timings. I'm running 6-6-5-20 with ease @ 1333mhz. I'm not very experienced in ram clocking but am getting better.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *richierich1212* 
So how can we hit 1333MHz speeds with CL5? I thought the fastest 1333MHz available was with CL6?

You need a very good kit, probably one of the Animal sets or another highly binned kit.


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## Slappa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dopamin3* 
OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK is much better. They can do 1800mhz at those timings easily providing you're IMC can handle it (most AMD IMC can't handle 1500mhz+). They should be able to do 1700mhz @ 7-6-6-24 with 1.68v







In addition to that, they can clock pretty well with tighter timings. I'm running 6-6-5-20 with ease @ 1333mhz. I'm not very experienced in ram clocking but am getting better.

You need a very good kit, probably one of the Animal sets or another highly binned kit.

Generally, the IMC hits a limit on air at around 1650-1700MHz. This can however, be beaten through tuning drive strengths.


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## Dopamin3

Updated and added a poll. I meant to put sticky but accidentally wrote stick, please forgive me, and I think you all should understand what I meant.


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## Dopamin3

Bump for justice.

I would like to see sticky on this.


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## filipin0yboi

can i get a tl;dr plz


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## Riou

This was really a good guide buy Tony @ OCZ. I remember reading this over at the OCZ forums.


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *filipin0yboi* 
can i get a tl;dr plz

tl;dr: 1333mhz memory with tight timings and high northbridge frequency is better than 1600mhz with looser timings and stock northbridge frequency.


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## filipin0yboi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dopamin3* 
tl;dr: 1333mhz memory with tight timings and high northbridge frequency is better than 1600mhz with looser timings and stock northbridge frequency.

thanks! +rep


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## vinzend

nice 1 !!

so i have OCZ3P1600 4Gk, 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 [email protected] 1.92V..
is it good or i need to change it to 1333 and get 5-5-5-24 1T?

NB = 2.2ghz (mobo can't go more than that







)
HT = 2ghz


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
nice 1 !!

so i have OCZ3P1600 4Gk, 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 [email protected] 1.92V..
is it good or i need to change it to 1333 and get 5-5-5-24 1T?

NB = 2.2ghz (mobo can't go more than that







)
HT = 2ghz

Sorry for late response, I haven't checked this thread in a while.

Most likely you can not achieve 5-5-5 timings @ 1333mhz. You should be able to pull off 6-6-6-24 or around 6-6-5-20 @ 1333mhz and be able to raise the NB some. I'm surprised your NB speed can't go higher


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## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dopamin3* 
Sorry for late response, I haven't checked this thread in a while.

Most likely you can not achieve 5-5-5 timings @ 1333mhz. You should be able to pull off 6-6-6-24 or around 6-6-5-20 @ 1333mhz and be able to raise the NB some. I'm surprised your NB speed can't go higher









yea i meant 6-6-6-24.. so which timing u recommend me? yea im getting asus crosshair iiI so NB to 2.8ghz or even higher shouldnt be so hard..


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
yea i meant 6-6-6-24.. so which timing u recommend me? yea im getting asus crosshair iiI so NB to 2.8ghz or even higher shouldnt be so hard..









Start off with 6-6-6-24 and slowly tighten the timings (ex go 6-6-6-24 to 6-6-5-20, then if that is stable 6-5-5-20, etc..). My ocz kit that was rated 7-7-7-24 @ 1600mhz did 6-6-5-20 @ 1333mhz. Every kit is different though, juts play with it until you get the best speed.


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## getbigtony

does the HT Link speed the same for ddr2?
if so, i need to lower mine fast!
should NB-CPU speed be as fast as possible!?!


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## Dopamin3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *getbigtony* 
does the HT Link speed the same for ddr2?
if so, i need to lower mine fast!
should NB-CPU speed be as fast as possible!?!

I have messed around with ddr2 and it also likes high northbridge frequency and lower HT link. I don't know what NB-CPU speed is but your NB frequency should be as high as you can get it, and keep your HT link at the stock of 2000mhz (or maybe 1800mhz, I'm unsure on that processor) for best performance.


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## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dopamin3* 
Start off with 6-6-6-24 and slowly tighten the timings (ex go 6-6-6-24 to 6-6-5-20, then if that is stable 6-5-5-20, etc..). My ocz kit that was rated 7-7-7-24 @ 1600mhz did 6-6-5-20 @ 1333mhz. Every kit is different though, juts play with it until you get the best speed.

how do i know if the ram isn't stable?


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
how do i know if the ram isn't stable?

Run some memory intensive benchmarks like Everest, Prime95, LinX, or Memtest86+


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## el gappo

so as you make things faster things go faster, i think i get it









yeah dude, run prime blend and memtest86 if you want to be really sure


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## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Run some memory intensive benchmarks like Everest, Prime95, LinX, or Memtest86+


Quote:


Originally Posted by *el gappo* 
so as you make things faster things go faster, i think i get it









yeah dude, run prime blend and memtest86 if you want to be really sure

so when it's not stable, will BSOD?


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
so when it's not stable, will BSOD?

Yes & No.

I had some RAM that was unstable. (Just RMA'd it) And it's been unstable for a month or so, but it didn't BSOD once, even while overclocked, but it did throw up some errors on Memtest86+, it just wasn't being used hard so it didn't BSOD.

I had 8gb total, so it was less likely to BSOD over that, but if you had just 2x2gb, you would probably have a higher chance of those BSODing from a bad overclock, because more of those two sticks of RAM are being used at once.


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## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yes & No.

I had some RAM that was unstable. (Just RMA'd it) And it's been unstable for a month or so, but it didn't BSOD once, even while overclocked, but it did throw up some errors on Memtest86+, it just wasn't being used hard so it didn't BSOD.

I had 8gb total, so it was less likely to BSOD over that, but if you had just 2x2gb, you would probably have a higher chance of those BSODing from a bad overclock, because more of those two sticks of RAM are being used at once.

oh okay, thanks a lot pals..


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## Maximous

Very nice. This was really helpfull.
Thnx mate. +rep


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## xquisit

wow, what a great read

check out the +rep pal!


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## Waterox

I like to say with this information my system is running tremendously stable. Rep++++++

My OCZ Obsidian are running very stable without messing with HT speed at 1333mhz (7-7-7-21) instead of the stock 1600mhz (9-9-9-24). NICE!

I have a few question though: I can only run my FSB to 2800mhz and when I cranked it up to 3000mhz my rams could not take Prime95 stable. Yes I cranked up the CPU-NB voltage to 1.45v (not enough maybe?)

My windows start up programs started to fail when I crank my memory any tighter than 7, even though I can test run it stable with Prime95 blend. Weird







. Everything seems ok with this speed and timing.


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## Afrodisiac

So I followed this guide with 2 sticks of RAM and it was all going perfect, [email protected], 1.7V, passed Memtest and Blend. Then I threw in my third stick and it became a bit unstable (obviously) and I was too lazy to do the whole process again so I gave up and set them at their rated speeds.

Guide worked when I followed it though. Nice.


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## Mastiffman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
So I followed this guide with 2 sticks of RAM and it was all going perfect, [email protected], 1.7V, passed Memtest and Blend. Then I threw in my third stick and it became a bit unstable (obviously) and I was too lazy to do the whole process again so I gave up and set them at their rated speeds.

Guide worked when I followed it though. Nice.

Well it's most likely because of your Phenom II being a C2 revision. C2's have a harder time running all four dimm slots at once. C3 revision Phenom II's have an improved IMC that will not only Run all four dimm slots stably without a hitch but will also run higher memory frequencies easier...


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## hobosrock696

+rep Very nice wasn't really sure about HT looks like no more reseting bios due to strange HT oc problems


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## thx1138

Just went through the entire thread, great read. Wanted to ask this without starting a new thread. I think I already know the answer but I would like to get a few recommendations from phenomII users with ddr2. My ram is advertised as 1066mhz 555-15. If i run my NB 2400-2600 would I benefit a lot by running 800mhz 444-10. Would you suggest going any lower on timings if I can get it stable? I'm not home right now and I forgot how low my bios will let me set the timings at 800mhz. Also, how important is bank cycle time (tRC)? And what should I set it to? Thanks.


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## The_Punisher

I made some similar graphs on my machine for comparison a couple weeks ago. To me the difference between 1333 CL6 and 1600 CL7 is negligible really. Is anyone here even able to run 1333 at CL5?? I know I can't no matter what I try.


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## tmunn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thx1138* 
Just went through the entire thread, great read. Wanted to ask this without starting a new thread. I think I already know the answer but I would like to get a few recommendations from phenomII users with ddr2. My ram is advertised as 1066mhz 555-15. If i run my NB 2400-2600 would I benefit a lot by running 800mhz 444-10. Would you suggest going any lower on timings if I can get it stable? I'm not home right now and I forgot how low my bios will let me set the timings at 800mhz. Also, how important is bank cycle time (tRC)? And what should I set it to? Thanks.

I have found no difference between 5-5-5-15 1066 & 4-4-4-12 800.


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## coonmanx

tRC=tRAS + tRP. Setting tRC too low could cause crashes while setting it higher will increase stability at the expense of performance.


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## GameBoy

Would it benefit me if I ran my NB at 2200-2400MHz instead of the stock 2GHz? as my CPU is only at 3.4GHz and will probably stay there.


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## AMD2600

I found this information the other day. After reading it I got the urge to increase my CPU-NB. I cannot go over 3.7ghz / 2400mhz without lowering my cpu speed. Upping the CPU-NB voltage increases CPU temps.


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## blaze200

Thanks, Im new to AMD so this will be helpful. I was always unsure on how memory worked...


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## xquisit

I need to find out if my mobo can handle 3,000NB


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
I need to find out if my mobo can handle 3,000NB









It can.

But your mobo won't be the limit, your CPU will be.


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## thx1138

I wonder what his results would be if he underclocked the HT like if he put it at 1800 or 1600.... Would it be a bell curve with 2000 at the best performance?


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thx1138* 
I wonder what his results would be if he underclocked the HT like if he put it at 1800 or 1600.... Would it be a bell curve with 2000 at the best performance?

1800-2000mhz shows not much of a difference. The First Phenom II x4's (920 & 940) had an HT & NB of 1800mhz


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## kstud

1333 RAM RESULTS:
32M pi 35secs faster with NB clock at 3000 over 2000
- In percentage = *3% performance difference*

encode 47secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*

1600 RAM RESULTS
32M Pi 36 secs faster with NB at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*
encode 57secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *4%*

From the op charts in percentage, there's roughly a difference of 3-4% between 2000 and 3000.


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## listen to remix

Thank you. REPPED!


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## Artikbot

Hye, thanks a lot!! Lowered mems from 1600 CL6-7-6-21 to 1333 5-6-5-15, HT to 2GHz and hey! I lowered 0.3s my mark in SuperPi 1M @4.15GHz ^^

Thanks a lot again


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## Mastiffman

This info is based off of a C2 revision Phenom II. So how is it even accurate anymore? Look at how well the C3 did with 4 Dimms and OCing the CPU-NB's... Now there are the Thubens that can crush ram frequncies and Timings. Whos to say that the CPU-NB in these tests was completely stable?

There are a few factors that make this info inaccurate and misleading. The timings on the Cas6 1600Mhz ram Tests could have been lowered some more with the right kit as well....

Just my HO!


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## dzalias

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mastiffman* 
This info is based off of a C2 revision Phenom II. So how is it even accurate anymore? Look at how well the C3 did with 4 Dimms and OCing the CPU-NB's... Now there are the Thubens that can crush ram frequncies and Timings. Whos to say that the CPU-NB in these tests was completely stable?

There are a few factors that make this info inaccurate and misleading. The timings on the Cas6 1600Mhz ram Tests could have been lowered some more with the right kit as well....

Just my HO!









I have a C2 revision Phenom II. I think you meant "relevant", not "accurate". And yeah; it's still relevant.

Although I'd like to see more data from varying sources.


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## Dopamin3

Mastiffman, while the memory controller has greatly improved with the C3 stepping and the launch of Thuban; the CPUs are still architecturally the same. The key to performance is not just running the highest RAM frequency you can, but rather to find the right balance of frequency and timings along with a high NB speed. So while the original post is old, it still applies to all Phenom II and even Thuban processors.


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## whatjones911

Great info! repped!


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## N2Gaming

Good info.


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## mdocod

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kstud* 
1333 RAM RESULTS:
32M pi 35secs faster with NB clock at 3000 over 2000
- In percentage = *3% performance difference*

encode 47secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*

1600 RAM RESULTS
32M Pi 36 secs faster with NB at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*
encode 57secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *4%*

From the op charts in percentage, there's roughly a difference of 3-4% between 2000 and 3000.

Just found this thread and was wondering when someone was going to point out the actual difference and not the perceived difference created by very misleading graphs that make it look like "massive" differences when it is in fact, nearly pointless differences....

+Rep to the only respondent who was able to see through the BS.


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## Baskt_Case

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mdocod* 
Just found this thread and was wondering when someone was going to point out the actual difference and not the perceived difference created by very misleading graphs that make it look like "massive" differences when it is in fact, nearly pointless differences....

+Rep to the only respondent who was able to see through the BS.

This is Overclock.net, not MassiveBenchmarkPerformanceIncreaseRequiredForItTo BeWorthwhile.net.

Primarily I like this thread because it points out that OC's to the HT are detrimental. Thats what I got out of it. You just got a reason to complain.

So


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## xd_1771

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artikbot* 
Hye, thanks a lot!! Lowered mems from 1600 CL6-7-6-21 to 1333 5-6-5-15, HT to 2GHz and hey! I lowered 0.3s my mark in SuperPi 1M @4.15GHz ^^

Thanks a lot again









SuperPi 1M is more suited to CPU speed rather than memory speed. I would test results between those timings with MaxxMem.


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## YoursTruly

I'm confused. So what you're telling me, is that 1333 is faster than 1600? Granted the timings are seperated 5-5-5 vs 6-6-6, but I should be looking to buy quick timed 1333 for my phenom II x4 955 BE C3? this is so backwards to what I've been thinking all along! Golly, and there I was ready to go down to NCIX this weekend and pick up some 2133! I guess the AMD boys just haven't gotten around to getting their mem controllers up to snuff... I don't really know whats going on... tell me.

PS: my mobo is a MSI 890FXA-GD70.

So now I'm currently looking @ these two:

Mushkin Redline 1600
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820226120

Mushkin ECO 1600
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...tem=20-231-321

I'm most likely to go with the ECO since its low voltage gives me a lot of headroom to OC speed and the timings too. I guess I have no clue whats going on, but since I have a C3 and an AM3 mobo rated at 2133+, I should be able to go ahead and up the speeds and such and it will make a difference... Right 0_o?


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## xd_1771

It's G.Skill ECO and not Mushkin ECO







they're about the best low-latency RAM you can get in Canada for the price - they should tighten to the same settings as the Redline (1600 6-8-6) because they usually use the same PSC chips. Because G.Skill uses various IC's in their ECO memory, you might get lucky and get an Elpida BBSE kit which could tighten even further than 6-7-6.

You could up the speeds, but likely at the cost of latencies in which case you could be better off with lower speeds/latencies because they might garner the same results in benchmarks and daily usage. 1600 CAS6-7 about equals 2000 CAS9. You shouldn't trust the DDR3 2133+ rating of your AM3 mobo, the speed you could get with memory all comes down to the CPU and integrated memory controller; with a C3 revision 955 you'll likely be able to push 1800Mhz but not much further. 1600 is usually faster than 1333 even at 9-9-9 latencies; I would prove it with MaxxMem.

If you purchase at NCIX and price match to the G.Skill ECO price at XpressCanada you can get your ECO's for $86 + tax and no shipping fees. I might even see you there, I'm heading down soon to pick up some parts for a family build


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## mdocod

Quote:



Originally Posted by *YoursTruly*


I'm confused. So what you're telling me, is that 1333 is faster than 1600? Granted the timings are seperated 5-5-5 vs 6-6-6, but I should be looking to buy quick timed 1333 for my phenom II x4 955 BE C3?....


1600 CAS6 has the same effective latency as 1333 CAS5, but the 1600 speed has higher bandwidth, so it should win almost all contests.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dopamin3*


1333 RAM RESULTS:
32M pi 35secs faster with NB clock at 3000 over 2000
encode 47secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000

1600 RAM RESULTS
32M Pi 36 secs faster with NB at 3000 over 2000
encode 57secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000[/CENTER]

So lets make this easy for you and drop the results on the same graphs











The graphs at least showed the total test times so that anyone paying close attention could see the real differences. They were misleading because of the scale they were on. Now, without a graph and without a reference to the original times required to complete the test at NB2000 speeds, the test results now are even more arbitrary.

Eric


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## YoursTruly

hmm, good point. And I guess being that it was a c2 stepping, it is somewhat irrelevant to my c3 stepping. lol, I saw this last night after work and I was tired and got all confused.







So I think I'll just go for the G.Skill (not Mushkin lol!) ECO. It has so much headroom its almost ridiculous. I originally wanted to go for the 2x4gb route, but I figure I won't be using it for much more than web surfing, gaming, music and a bit of photo shop for sigs and backgrounds. So, I should just save the $100 of the 8gb set, and spend that on my gpu. (building a new computer from scratch! very exciting stuff, lots to learn!)


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## saini_er

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mastiffman* 
Well it's most likely because of your Phenom II being a C2 revision. C2's have a harder time running all four dimm slots at once. C3 revision Phenom II's have an improved IMC that will not only Run all four dimm slots stably without a hitch but will also run higher memory frequencies easier...

Hi Mastiffman,

Is 1090t c2 or c3 version .. how can I check this

Thanks
Manmeeet


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## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saini_er* 
Hi Mastiffman,

Is 1090t c2 or c3 version .. how can I check this

Thanks
Manmeeet

All T based processors are E0 Revision. They have the strongest IMC yet.


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## xd_1771

C2 or C3 version applies to Deneb, Propus and Regor cores (Phenom II x4 8X0/9X0, x3, x2, Athlon II x4/x3/x2, Athlon X2 5000+). The Phenom II X4 8X0T/9X0T and Phenom II x6 are only the E0 revision. The C3 revision memory controller was good enough; E0 is even better.


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## Rita G.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dopamin3*


Update May16th 1:25AM...5-5-5-24 1t hits back. you guys looking for 1800MHZ ram at 8-8-8- or 9-9-9- forget it, with the NB around 2400 to 2800MHZ 5-5-5-24 1t 1333 is where you need to be.
:


what kind (make/model) of ddr3 ram will do 5-5-5?


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## xd_1771

I think only Micron D9s and high-binned Hypers can do that, at 1333Mhz. 1600Mhz, probably only for benching/pushing high voltage, say.


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## mark4d

OK i been listening ot you guys but this crazy i got this ram and can get down to the 777 @1333 but i cant get to the 555s stable my mobo wont go to 1800 at all did i get the wrong memory http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104183


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## mark4d

all so my HT LINK is at 2400 and my score in amd over drive is 7776 but with htt link at 1996its 7255


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## Redwoodz

Remember your results may vary-depending on your RAM and IMC.You have to determine the best settings for your set-up.Some RAM performs better at higher frequencies and looser timings.Latency is not exactly linear,so your particular set may actually do better at 1600 vs 1333...or vise-versa.


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## mark4d

how do you know when your ram stable or not


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## briangp

mark, what voltage are you running??


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## mark4d

1.75 the stock voltage OS 1.7 - 1.9


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## RealEyes

Great info awesome thread, just have to ask about my RAM timings.

I have mushkin enhanced 2x2gb blackline 1333 @ 9-9-9-24 (probably a faulty default), running @ 1600 7-8-7-24 and it passed memtest but should I set it nack to 1333 @ 7-(8/7)-7 or???


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## freakfishtech

as far as I know AMD IMC up to quad core, works with memory by default at 1333mhz, so I thinks that's why 1333 works better than 1600.


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## freakfishtech

and yes if you raise the NB frequency, you get some performance for your memory


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## kotipelto

sir , i im really new to all this overclocking stuff. i am trying hard. i have have all my dimms filled with patriot memory + 8 gig its 1600 2000 sector 5 pgv3462000elk. 2 4 gig kits+8 again all my dimms are filled. the timings are at 9-9-9-27. i am getting 1 small micro stutter every 10 to 15 seconds playing bulletstorm. would that be from having all the dimms being used? anyways. could you please suggest some other timings could i use with this ram. i know 9-9-924 works . any other timings that you know of that might work with these modules. i have looked around quit a bit for information on this ram and cannot seem to find anything about it. patriot does not evan have these on there site from what ive seen. here is what i am at right now. please check it out and let me know what you think i could do to get max game performance


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## PROBN4LYFE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kotipelto;14731010*
> sir , i im really new to all this overclocking stuff. i am trying hard. i have have all my dimms filled with patriot memory + 8 gig its 1600 2000 sector 5 pgv3462000elk. 2 4 gig kits+8 again all my dimms are filled. the timings are at 9-9-9-27. i am getting 1 small micro stutter every 10 to 15 seconds playing bulletstorm. would that be from having all the dimms being used? anyways. could you please suggest some other timings could i use with this ram. i know 9-9-924 works . any other timings that you know of that might work with these modules. i have looked around quit a bit for information on this ram and cannot seem to find anything about it. patriot does not evan have these on there site from what ive seen. here is what i am at right now. please check it out and let me know what you think i could do to get max game performance


Make a screenshot of the memory


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## davidm71

Was wondering if a 1090T can handle 2800mhz CPU/NB frequency safely on a good air cooler? Also whats the max that it can handle?

Thanks


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## Tator Tot

Yes, the max frequency is dependent on the Chip.

You could do 3Ghz NB without an issue on a Thuban chip. If you've got the right cooling & board.


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## Mawbster

sorry to be a pain in the ass but im looking for some memory.

i dont really understand the graphs and stuff yet. but as im upgrading my system im looking to buy for overclocking in the future.

can somebody "tell" me what to buy.


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## davidm71

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mawbster;15177029*
> sorry to be a pain in the ass but im looking for some memory.
> 
> i dont really understand the graphs and stuff yet. but as im upgrading my system im looking to buy for overclocking in the future.
> 
> can somebody "tell" me what to buy.


That all depends on what other parts your going to be upgrading as well. If your still using the same configuration in your sig you could get tighter latency type ram.


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## mdocod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mawbster;15177029*
> sorry to be a pain in the ass but im looking for some memory.
> 
> i dont really understand the graphs and stuff yet. but as im upgrading my system im looking to buy for overclocking in the future.
> 
> can somebody "tell" me what to buy.


You should ignore this thread for any form of advice because the original intent of this thread was to mislead the masses by posting "colorful" graphs that have less meaning than a fly swatting.


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## Baskt_Case

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdocod;15185636*
> You should ignore this thread for any form of advice because the original intent of this thread was to mislead the masses by posting "colorful" graphs that have less meaning than a fly swatting.


I go looking for this thread everytime someone wants to go screwing with the HTT Link Speed. Let me sum the graphs up for some here...

Reach for max NB overclock when possible and _ALWAYS leave the HTT as close to 2GHz as possible_. Go for lowest possible timing at this point and your golden.

I'm sure this will be skewed into something I did not intend or someone will develop a serious case of verbal diarrhea, but quite a few will see what I'm saying.


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## gabead

Ok, I understand where to change the timings and stuff, but I don't understand how to know what timmings to use and how you even figure them out?


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## freakfishtech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gabead;15305876*
> Ok, I understand where to change the timings and stuff, but I don't understand how to know what timmings to use and how you even figure them out?


if you want to understand timings better you should read this first http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26
and then you will probably do better than me with your g-skill than i did with my a-data. i bought them with 1333MHz, and 9-10-12-30 as timings and now i have the same frequency but with 5-7-7-20 as timings. and here's a tip *DO NOT* change voltage unless necessary!


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## gabead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freakfishtech;15305948*
> if you want to understand timings better you should read this first http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26
> and then you will probably do better than me with your g-skill than i did with my a-data. i bought them with 1333MHz, and 9-10-12-30 as timings and now i have the same frequency but with 5-7-7-20 as timings. and here's a tip *DO NOT* change voltage unless necessary!


Thank you will read it during lunch break! Thanks for the voltage advice also.


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## freakfishtech

you're welcomed!


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## FromUndaChz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdocod*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kstud*
> 
> 
> _1333 RAM RESULTS:
> 
> 32M pi 35secs faster with NB clock at 3000 over 2000
> 
> - In percentage = *3% performance difference*
> 
> encode 47secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*
> 
> 1600 RAM RESULTS
> 
> 32M Pi 36 secs faster with NB at 3000 over 2000 = *3%*
> 
> encode 57secs faster total job NB clock at 3000 over 2000 = *4%*
> 
> From the op charts in percentage, there's roughly a difference of 3-4% between 2000 and 3000._
> 
> 
> Just found this thread and was wondering when someone was going to point out the actual difference and not the perceived difference created by very misleading graphs that make it look like "massive" differences when it is in fact, nearly pointless differences....
> 
> +Rep to the only respondent who was able to see through the BS.


Agreed! I was going nuts trying to get my NB up from 2400 until I read this... I'm finding out that with my 960T, 2400 NB is just fine combined with my RAM at 1600.

Now, what was useful was seeing that an OC to the HT was detrimental! Mine is at 2400 and will now be slowed to as close to 2000 as I can get it. Thanks for this. (Does this still apply to C3 stepping?)

Now I will relax about speeding up the RAM and the NB, and leave it where I have it... I'm running 4.1 GHz clock speeds and I'm very happy with it. I'm not going to go nuts overclocking for 3% gains that's just not worth my time.


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## Krusher33

You know I usually advise people to stick around 2000. I keep forgetting why till I see this thread, lol


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## amdgig

.


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## FromUndaChz

So new numbers after reading this...

CPU 4142 MHz @ 1.425 vCore
FSB 259 NB @ 1.15 V
MULTI x 16.0
NB 3106 MHz @ 1.36875 V CPU/NB
RAM 1726 MHz @ 1.55V - 9-9-9-24
HT 2071 MHz

CPU-Z Validation link: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2149949

According to the article I think I'd be better off slowing the RAM down and tightening up the timings...

Can anyone explain the best way to test / benchmark my results if I try doing that?

From OP:

"As you see 1333 6-6-6-24 1t is faster than 7-7-7-24 1t for super Pi but slightly slower for encoding. What you need to note though is at around 2400MHZ CPU-NB encode test both 1333 and 1600 are so close its not worth bothering about...after that 1600 is faster as 1333 memory starts to become a bottleneck.

Update May16th 1:25AM...5-5-5-24 1t hits back. you guys looking for 1800MHZ ram at 8-8-8- or 9-9-9- forget it, with the NB around 2400 to 2800MHZ 5-5-5-24 1t 1333 is where you need to be."

-Probably won't bother though because my Super Pi 32M time is lower than any time on the OP's graphs - 960 seconds :-D


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## harbin91

Only just found this thread but I just want to ask how relevent these results still are. I have a 965BE and want to push performance as far as I can on air, which includes RAM. I've currently got the CPU clocked on multi to 4Ghz, running on 1.45v (which I believe is stock). I've currently got G.Skill RipjawsX RAM, running at 1600Mhz on 8-9-8-24 timings, with a 2400Mhz NB speed, but based on my Maxxmem scores, I feel there is alot more to be got from the RAM.

Currently running 4x4GB. I need 16GB since I'm operating a RAM Disk.


Spoiler: Maxxmem score here







8-9-8-24 is the lowest I can get the timings before it stops booting. I'm currently operating the sticks on stock voltage 1.5v.

HTlink is still at stock.

I've also settled on a Noctua DH14 for CPU cooling, just need to order it. Can anyone tell me how good it is at cooling a 965 at 4Ghz on stock? If it's good then I might be tempted to knock up the voltages on it. How high a voltage should I go on air? I've read 1.55v is the absolute limit before your risk damage.


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## AMD4ME

^^^^ Synthetic benches tend to show much more gain than real world apps which may not show anything of significance at all with tighter latencies or higher RAM frequencies above ~1333 MHz. because at that frequency the RAM isn't a system bottleneck. As the RAM frequency increases the real time of one clock cycle becomes less so lower latency has less impact at higher frequencies. Some software responds better to lower latency and other software to higher frequency though the net gain is miniscule above ~1333 MHz.


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## redhat_ownage

your nb speed need to go higher to make the highspeed ram worthwhile,


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## roguetrip

Is running a NB of 3200MHz rather safe, no one seems to pass up 3000MHz?

Also anyone running the 30nm Samsung memory at CL5 @ 1333 speeds?

My setup currently:
x4 960T 3.0 @ 3.9 ([email protected])
Samsung 2x4GB 30nm running 1600MHz 8-8-8- 22-30-1T @1.4v
HT 2000MHz
CPU-NB 3200MHz (auto voltage sets at 1.5v)

Anything I should really be trying to change up at this point?

My cpu seems to hate 4+GHz atleast multi x voltage wise.


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## Schmuckley

necrobump for a good thread..I read this a year or so before I joined OCN.
To answer the Q above me..some Thubans will run like that..RAM likes 1600-ish..
The one I have now likes 31** cpu/nb


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## Krusher33

It's been awhile but I think I remember that above 3k on the NB was showing tiny gains and so no one really go that much higher.

The other reason may be the same as mine. I can't get much higher than 2700 for some reason without giving it more than 1.3v (which is what I'm told is the safe point).


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## Schmuckley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> It's been awhile but I think I remember that above 3k on the NB was showing tiny gains and so no one really go that much higher.
> The other reason may be the same as mine. I can't get much higher than 2700 for some reason without giving it more than 1.3v (which is what I'm told is the safe point).


You can give it moar joose! I set mine to 1.37 straightaway..raise it if need be..depends on how the chip reacts.


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## Krusher33

I might do that with the Sabertooth I have coming. I don't trust this board much for that. At 1.26 and the heatsinks at extremely warm, I'm now blowing a GT 2150 right on them.


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## Belial

I have a question

The 'encoding' test... does that mean like streaming video kind of stuff?

So if you have a stream... you should go with a higher memory clock instead of tighter timings, am I getting that correctly?

And then raise cpu-nb as high as possible, and ht link stay at 2ghz/stock (so if you raise fsb, you should LOWER your ht link multi...).


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## mdocod

Hi Belial,

Encoding performance is primarily CPU bound. Increasing the NB frequency by a full 50% (2000 to 3000MHZ) only improves the result in the charts shown by about 4%. What this means is that the task is not being bottle-necked by memory bandwidth. The 4% gain is the result of achieving a slightly better average latency from the CPU through the IMC to the memory and back. (quite literally, the "timing" of communication events has more chances to "hit" on a cycle to the IMC since it's spinning faster, so nanoseconds are shaved here and there).

In each case, the performance difference demonstrated between 1333 and 1600 speeds is less than 1% (with some differences as low as 0.2%). The small difference again, is related to event timing and not bandwidth. The Athlon II/Phenom II architecture is bandwidth bottle-necked at the IMC, not the memory itself. For all practical intents and purposes, choosing between 1333 and 1600 speed on an Athlon II memory controller is primarily an exercise in academics. Such a change will not make or break the ability to run a particular game or encode at a particular quality setting in real time. Keep in mind that the comparisons shown are at specific timings. If you deviate from the settings shown, your results may be different. It's possible that with your particular memory, you may get the best encode performance with the lower memory speed if that speed allows you to run tight enough timings. Again, I must emphasize, it's academic, it's "interesting," it isn't "useful."

Remember, this CPU architecture started on DDR2. As it turns out, no matter what you do with the DDR3 speeds/timings, you won't see a significant improvement in memory bandwidth over what these chips were doing on DDR2. FYI, DDR2 667MT/s in dual channel has over 10GB/s of potential bandwidth. The typical AM3 system running DDR3 has twice the theoretical memory bandwidth, but only musters up about a 10% improvement over that DDR2 performance. Best I've achieved is around 11,500MB/s.

Best of luck,
Eric


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## Belial

Well from what I understood, AMD favors timings and Intel favors speed. Hence on my current system, I went for tighter timings than speed (cut timings by 2, but speed is barely higher than 1333mhz, as you can see in my profile).

But I thought the encode stats were showing that speed>timings for encoding, whatever that was.

im not really sure what to take from your response... that speed isn't that useful? But the graphics show that speed>timings in the encode tests:
Quote:


> As you see 1333 6-6-6-24 1t is faster than 7-7-7-24 1t for super Pi but slightly slower for encoding.


I just dont know if this encoding is like the type of encoding you get with streaming xsplit, etc.



Shows that speed>timings for encoding.

Now I stream starcraft 2, that's what i want performance in. And streaming takes up a ton of my pc. so thats my interest here. obviously im aware im not getting big changes anywhere here, but im curious if i should be going for mhz instead of timing now.

Also, here's a source showing that CPU-NB is limited, that higher isn't always better, but that there is actually a sweet spot:


http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596023

By the way, just got a phenom ii.


----------



## firej

Thanks for your thread!


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## Duality92

Holy zombie thread batman.


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## firej

If you have old staff you dig zomby threads


----------

