# Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra vs Liquid Pro vs Phobya Liquid Metal



## PCWargamer

Cool that you tested this *tw33k*. I have used both TIMs myself to see how they worked in my system. For my system I had PRO better than Ultra by 1-3C. Did you do the test multiple times in case it was just one application being better than the other the time it was done? I know I do not apply TIMs perfectly everytime I try and it would be great to know if your results were from 5-10 applications with highs and lows for each TIM to better account for mounting issues.

Lots of the guys on the delidding thread think PRO is better than Ultra too, so if you could get a good case of mounting samples showing that Ultra is better it might spark some additional testing on other systems too.


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## Hokies83

Me to i found pro 2- 5 c better then ultra.

Guess it depends on the APP.


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## tw33k

I only have 1 lot of each so I tested both of them twice and posted the best result.


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## King4x4

Major thanks tw33k!

One batch of Liquid Ultra coming up!


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## VonDutch

nice test tw33k,
thanks for taking the effort and time to do this,
in general it seems liquid pro performs a bit better then liquid ultra in our delidded thread,
keep in mind theres always a fault tolerance of about 2-3C, one time you apply the tim better then other times etc..

liquid ultra is the new pro, its easier to clean later on, thats what we do know, i contacted Coollaboratory
again, to ask about the w/mk liquid pro has, we know for sure now the w/mk of liquid ultra, 38.4 w/mk,
liquid pro has a w/mk of 82 as far as we know..
my guess is, theres a " optimal" w/mk for use on the die,
the difference in w/mk gets less when its over a certain point, tempwise that is









i dont think if there was a tim with 150 w/mk, it will drop temps by alot more then using liquid pro on the die
theres a maximum in heat dispersion from the die to ihs, or to the cooler block(direct die)


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## Matt-Matt

Yes! Very good guide!









I applied pro on the CPU, then Ultra on the IHS. I ran out of ultra though as I stuffed up my 7950's application and tried a Pentium 4 IHS which failed.

For the record Ultra stains the bottom of the heatsink...


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## stickg1

Good job Tweek!


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## tw33k

Thanks guys.

It would be good if those people who claim to have used both posted their results. It's not good enough to simply say "I found Pro performed better" Post proof otherwise it appears you're not being truthful


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## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> It would be good if those people who claim to have used both posted their results. It's not good enough to simply say "I found Pro performed better" Post proof otherwise it appears *you're not being truthful*


Ive used both why do i need to Lie about it? Liquid Pro is better on the Die then Ultra ...

Also Ultra is just as hard to clean off as Pro so i donno ?

Maybe it is your App or the wimpy 1.24 v core you are using? for all we know Ultra could perform better with low V core and Pro with High V core?


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## zalbard

Pro has better conductivity. If applied properly it performs a bit better.


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## motherpuncher

Could I use this stuff for the heatsinks on my motherboard? Repped for the testing, thanks.


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## stickg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> It would be good if those people who claim to have used both posted their results. It's not good enough to simply say "I found Pro performed better" Post proof otherwise it appears you're not being truthful


I didn't accurately document my results of Pro vs Ultra. By the time I tested with Ultra on the same chip I used Pro on originally I was on a different motherboard. I do like that Pro has an actual needle on the syringe. The Ultra I bought had leaked out of the cap and was a mess. Probably the retailer or carriers fault but I wasn't happy. I got two applications out of it compared to the 7 applications I got of Pro.

The results didn't seem too far off though.


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## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> I didn't accurately document my results of Pro vs Ultra. By the time I tested with Ultra on the same chip I used Pro on originally I was on a different motherboard. I do like that Pro has an actual needle on the syringe. The Ultra I bought had leaked out of the cap and was a mess. Probably the retailer or carriers fault but I wasn't happy. I got two applications out of it compared to the 7 applications I got of Pro.
> 
> The results didn't seem too far off though.


Silence! he who ships fans and does not clean them first!









You owe me 4 Qtips!


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## stickg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Silence! he who ships fans and does not clean them first!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You owe me 4 Qtips!


LOL, I blew it off with 120 psi of compressed air. That's about all the cleaning I do bro. If I clean its with power tools, not with cleaning products


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## Solonowarion

Good stuff man. Ill stick with my ultra.


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## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> LOL, I blew it off with 120 psi of compressed air. That's about all the cleaning I do bro. If I clean its with power tools, not with cleaning products


LoL i can tell u do not smoke or not much..

When i clean my fans after 3 months use the dust is like tar lol.


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## stickg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> LoL i can tell u do not smoke or not much..
> 
> When i clean my fans after 3 months use the dust is like tar lol.


I do but I'm not allowed to smoke inside because of the kids. Well I'm glad you got them in one piece, supposedly the entire spindle and blades comes off, I guess so you can clean them easier, IDK. I never tried.

Also I only used them for like 2 weeks. I got them replace some sickleflows because an anandtech review said they were so much better but they were actually the exact same performance and then I got some Corsair SP-120's for free on a newegg sale and a rebate card so I hadn't used them since.

Okay I'm done thread jacking/OT


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Ive used both why do i need to Lie about it? Liquid Pro is better on the Die then Ultra ...
> 
> Also Ultra is just as hard to clean off as Pro so i donno ?
> 
> Maybe it is your App or the wimpy 1.24 v core you are using? for all we know Ultra could perform better with low V core and Pro with High V core?


lol...


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## tw33k

5GHz results posted


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## stickg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> 5GHz results posted


Nice! I do like the little brushes that Ultra comes with, those are better than the cotton swabs IMO. I don't like the syringe with no needle, I find it harder to get the exact amount of TIM you need. With the Pro if you accidently squeeze out too much you can suck it back up with the needle.


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## Belial

i posted in your anandtech thread. I'm always searching on this topic, glad someone finally tested it.

Can you not use the rice grain method with liquid ultra/pro? I know the company says use the spread method, but every time I've done the spread method, my temps were about 5*C+ over rice grain method, and that's with multiple spreads and mounts. I know the company says to do it one way, but Prolimatech says you should use the spread method too and it just completely messed up temps.

Rice grain is so much better, unless Liquid pro/ultra viscosity in some way prevents rice grain (maybe it's super liquidy? I mean i dont have any so i dont know how it acts) I can't see spread being better than rice grain. All you need is enough to cover the die (when put on the IHS), everytime I used enough paste using rice grain method to spread out to cover the entire IHS, it ended up being way too much thermal paste.

I think it was hardwaresecrets that did a spread method comparison (without even testing temps...) and they concluded certain methods being better than others based on how well it spread out and covering the underside of the heatsink block, but the optimal amount in my tests was always when the TIM just barely covered over the die, like a circle half the size of the total area of the IHS.

edit: some guy on spreading liquid ultra saying spread is better than ricegrain but... doesnt really sound like he knows what he's talking about:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2072263

edit2: sounds like he shorted out his system by lapping a piece of metal into his pins


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## tw33k

I never spread regular paste but I believe spreading this liquid metal is the best idea because it ensures the compound is evenly spread across the entire surface. I can't see it spreading out the way regular paste does.

I'm going to run the Ultra at 5GHz again because I can't shake the feeling that I used too much.


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## Belial

In the tests I did, you actually didn't want the paste spread across the entire IHS (if you used enough to do so, that would mean you used too much basically). But if you can't do the ricegrain method, then you can't do the ricegrain method.

Did you have any difficulty with either of the liquids staining or staying on permanently? That guy seemed to have an issue where he had to lap the ultra to get it off, that it was staining his heatsink and cpu ihs, ie it wasn't coming clean off like a normal paste would. the guy seemed half ******ed (lapping his block and letting it fall into his cpu socket and frying out his chip? *** was he doing).


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## tw33k

Like I said, with regular paste I never spread it, I allow the pressure from the heatsink to do it.

As far as staining, the top of the chip is slightly stained but I've applied and removed the TIM quite a few times. The base of the heatsink is really stained to the point where I'd have to lap it to remove the stain which I am considering. I doubt it would impact temps but I'll need to do more testing to see. I've just ordered 3 more of both Pro and Ultra. I really wish I had room for a test-bench.


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## stickg1

I don't think the grain of rice method will work with CL Pro or Ultra. It's not a paste, when you push some out of the syringe onto the die you get a liquid metal ball, kind of like a bead. To apply it you need to move it back and forth gently across the die and eventually you will break the surface tension and it will begin to spread, then you "paint" it onto the die. It is very runny, it is a very strange compound. Hard to describe, you will just have to see for yourself.

Putting TIM on a die is way different than putting TIM on an IHS. The entire die is active and generates heat, the entire die needs to be covered in TIM and make contact with the IHS. An IHS is just that, a heat spreader. It spreads the heat, the entire IHS is not active. That's why a small dot in the middle is ideal because the pressure of the block or cooler will spread the paste to cover, more often than not, the area of the die residing under it.

I would not recommend the grain of rice method on the die, especially with liquid pro/ultra. It would most likely stay in its bead like form and be pushed off the die. If you did somehow manage to set the IHS on the die perfectly level in all four corners instantaneously (which would be extremely difficult), it is likely that the compound would not cover the entire die unless you used way too much TIM, which is just as bad.

So you can be the guinea pig if you want, but I wouldn't do it.


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## tw33k

Well said stickg1


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## Belial

Stained from ultra or pro or both cause staining?

I'm going to be delidding and such on a new build but going to hold off buying liquid over my pk-3 unless i need a bigger temp drop (for all i know my cpu just wont go above 4.5 no matter what).

Also if there was any confusion, i was talking about ihs spread. Now I see you can't use ricegrain on the liquids, but i would figure you gotta cover the entire die, unlike the ihs. Just like the ihs though, I'm sure it's important you use very little.

I mean it' s very easy to use too much paste, but it's near impossible to use too little.


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## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> Stained from ultra or pro or both cause staining?
> 
> I'm going to be delidding and such on a new build but going to hold off buying liquid over my pk-3 unless i need a bigger temp drop (for all i know my cpu just wont go above 4.5 no matter what).
> 
> Also if there was any confusion, i was talking about ihs spread. Now I see you can't use ricegrain on the liquids, but i would figure you gotta cover the entire die, unlike the ihs. Just like the ihs though, I'm sure it's important you use very little.
> 
> I mean it' s very easy to use too much paste, but it's near impossible to use too little.


I only got staining from the Ultra, I didn't let the pro touch the CPU cooler








Pretty sure the Pentium 4 IHS was stained too from the pro... I did use a lot of metho on it once I took it off though.
To add the SB-E is a mirror finish (Nickel Plated) cooler, so it may not stain copper as much or be as visible.. It definetly stained my SB-E's base though.


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## stickg1

@Belial - when you gonna get this new build up and running?


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## Belial

waiting on the ram still. It's from canada, they had that storm. And the noctua mount too (but i can just use the stock cooler at least for the time being), which is coming from austria (the mail from them arrived the day the build was finished but they forgot the lga1155 mount so i gotta wait on mail from austrai all over again).

any day now for the ram. dont expect the noctua mount for a week or two.


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Me to i found pro 2- 5 c better then ultra.
> 
> Guess it depends on the APP.


I too find Pro performs better then Ultra - but not as much as you - only ~2C difference for me.

But I find Ultra easier to work with and clean, so some still may prefer to use it instead of Pro, even though it seems to perform ~2C worse.


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## tw33k

More people making claims with out any proof. There's an old saying..."Put up or shut up"


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> More people making claims with out any proof. There's an old saying..."Put up or shut up"


I could do a few tests for you if you really want, but when my results are different to your results it won't really help anyone decide in the end - hence why my post contained more then just the temp difference and a little guidance for those considering one or the other









A few questions for you:

Is this your first time using them both
Did you allow 48 hours for both applications to settle properly before performing your tests?
How much of each did you apply?
What did you use to apply them?
Which one did you test first?
Did you prepare your waterblock and CPU surfaces before each application?
Did you do more then one application of each to confirm your results were accurate?
I could go on, but I'll stop here.


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## tw33k

My methodology was similar to any other thermal paste comparative (this is not my first time running these type of comparatives). No testing is perfect but at least my results show that neither one is "much better" than the other as some people have claimed. I've just ordered 3x each so I can do more tests but I'm satisfied that I've proven my point and this is proven by the fact that others who previously swore that "Pro was the best", having now seen my results as well as the actual heat conductivity ratings I obtained from Coollabs, are planning on purchasing Ultra now.

As far as your questions go, if you actually read the OP properly you'd find most of the answers. Some of your questions tho, show your lack of understanding. Question 2 highlights this as neither of these compounds need time to cure. They perform optimally immediately.


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## stickg1

If they would put a needle on the Ultra I would use it again. I thought the Pro was much easier to dispense and I got 3x as many uses from it. The Ultra I think just got messed up in shipping because it was spilled all in the cap and I got 2 uses out of it. I do like the brushes Ultra comes with as opposed to the q-tips that Pro comes with so it's a toss up really. Your results seem to show Pro working better when more heat is being generated.


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> If they would put a needle on the Ultra I would use it again. I thought the Pro was much easier to dispense and I got 3x as many uses from it. The Ultra I think just got messed up in shipping because it was spilled all in the cap and I got 2 uses out of it. I do like the brushes Ultra comes with as opposed to the q-tips that Pro comes with so it's a toss up really. *Your results seem to show Pro working better when more heat is being generated*.


As I said in an earlier post, I'm going to run the 5GHz test again because I think I used too much Ultra both times I tested it. Anyway, a 1c difference is well within the margin of error so it doesn't really prove anything.


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## stickg1

Yeah using too much definitely doesn't help!! I used too much Pro my first ever application and I was only about 10C better than stock and so I looked a bunch of other peoples pictures and considering mine looked like a giant glob of molten metal I realized I had probably used too much.


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Some of your questions tho, show your lack of understanding. Question 2 highlights this as neither of these compounds need time to cure. They perform optimally immediately.


This is exactly why i asked question 2 - to see exactly how experienced you are with liquid metal TIM.

You are a little uninformed with Collaboratory Liquid Metal products, as they both require a 48 hour bedin time to perform optimally. This is because the liquid metal takes a while to spread and set.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RTFM*
> At period about 48 hours after the application (depending on the thickness of the application) the applied liquid
> metal consolidates. Thereby the already really good heat conduction changes for the better


If you overlooked this, what else have you overlooked? And that is why I asked all the questions I did


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## tw33k

Simply quoting the user manual does not make one an expert.


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## stickg1

Yeah, in the half dozen times I've applied each, the temps were the same in the first hour as they are three days later.


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> Yeah, in the half dozen times I've applied each, the temps were the same in the first hour as they are three days later.


Same here. He simply went through the manual without having any experience of his own or realizing that the he's reading a badly translated version


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Same here. He simply went through the manual without having any experience of his own or realizing that the he's reading a badly translated version


I did not post to argue with you or make you look like you are inexperienced, and I do think you deserve credit for taking the time to test the Ultra and Pro TIMs and for posting your results - the information it provides to other members is what OCN is all about in the end.

But you need to ease up on the tone of your replies mate, it's uncalled for.

I was simply agreeing with some of the earlier posts that Pro performed marginally better for me and in no way was trying to discredit you in any way. If you actually read my post again, you'll see we share similar findings about usage of both products anyway.

To take feedback from other OCN members, especially thopse who use the same product you have tested, will only make you better at testing products and providing useful results to OCN members in future.


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## Belial

stickg1, just get some hypodermic insulin syringes from anywhere (a lot of pharmacies sell single syringes). On .5ml sticks (not the 1ml sticks), you can pull off the needle tip.

Then simply put that on the tip of your liquid ultra.

Or, couldn't you take the cap off the pro and put it on the ultra (if it does come off)?

I knew that 80+ w/mk for pro was bs! I do think un-nerfer raises valid questions tw33k but that you are willing to do more tests show you are go above and beyond. Maybe pro or ultra is 1-2*C better but I think you've proven already that there's little real world difference between the two.


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *un-nefer*
> 
> I did not post to argue with you or make you look like you are inexperienced, and I do think you deserve credit for taking the time to test the Ultra and Pro TIMs and for posting your results - the information it provides to other members is what OCN is all about in the end.
> 
> But you need to ease up on the tone of your replies mate, it's uncalled for.
> 
> I was simply agreeing with some of the earlier posts that Pro performed marginally better for me and in no way was trying to discredit you in any way. If you actually read my post again, you'll see we share similar findings about usage of both products anyway.
> 
> To take feedback from other OCN members, especially thopse who use the same product you have tested, will only make you better at testing products and providing useful results to OCN members in future.


If my posts offended you then I'm sorry. That was not my intention at all. I've been frustrated by people making claims without posting any evidence what-so-ever. It's like they say "Pro is better" simply because that's the one they used. They claim to have used both but yet post no results. I've always been of the opinion that Ultra would be equal or better (if only marginally) because what kind of company would release an inferior product but call it "Ultra" I don't believe anything without some kind of evidence (like, for example the ridiculous claim that Liquid Pro was rated at 82w/mk) and if I can I want to see for myself.


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## Belial

^ Yea i completely agree. 82w/mk sounds like bs, and yea the same thing about why would a company release an update that is inferior (it's happened before... but it's still weird).

It's not like Liquid Ultra is Ceramique 2 vs AS5, ultra is supposed to be a straight up update to pro. Most TIMs these days are moving less towards performance, and more towards ease of use - less thermal conductivity, less corrosive, easier to spread, less viscous, cheaper, etc, but they make sure to at least keep the same thermal properties as their predecessors (ie pk-2 is no better than pk-1 but it's one of the easiest pastes out there to work with, and then pk-3 is harder to work with but much better than both).

w/mk is don't think is everything when it comes to thermal pastes, either. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I would think other things affect cooling properites (i mean granite has the best w/mk but you don't see granite pastes for a reason), and then some stuff might cool worse but just make a better connection or some other desirable property (ie nickel isnt as good as copper, barely, but it's many times more durable, hence why all heatsinks are nickel plated copper instead of copper, i mean you'll never see a true 120 copper type of heatsink again).

I'd love to see you retest with the higher overclocks. I mean it's near impossible to use too little thermal paste, I think especially when it comes to spread method, people use too much paste, think they have to cover everything or have a layer on there. You should be able to see through the paste (maybe liquids are different, but with spreading ceramiques that's the idea at least).


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> I'd love to see you retest with the higher overclocks. I mean it's near impossible to use too little thermal paste, I think especially when it comes to spread method, people use too much paste, think they have to cover everything or have a layer on there. You should be able to see through the paste (maybe liquids are different, but with spreading ceramiques that's the idea at least).


I mentioned in an earlier post that I'm going to run the 5GHz test with Ultra again because I used too much. I knew it at the time but it was late and I just wanted to get it done. I've got 3x Ultra and 3x Pro being shipped now so I can do a lot more. I just wish I had the room to set up a proper test bench. It's a pain unplugging everything from my case, changing the compound and plugging everything back in. Makes life hard and I sometimes rush things because it's taken too long.


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## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I mentioned in an earlier post that I'm going to run the 5GHz test with Ultra again because I used too much. I knew it at the time but it was late and I just wanted to get it done. I've got 3x Ultra and 3x Pro being shipped now so I can do a lot more. I just wish I had the room to set up a proper test bench. It's a pain unplugging everything from my case, changing the compound and plugging everything back in. Makes life hard and I sometimes rush things because it's taken too long.


Dwood test bench for sale in market place --> cases


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## tw33k

Finding one is not the issue. The logistics is my problem


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## 47 Knucklehead

Nice review. I might soon be in the market for Liquid Ultra to delid my 3770K, and this will prove invaluable.


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> Nice review. I might soon be in the market for Liquid Ultra to delid my 3770K, and this will prove invaluable.


Glad you found it helpful


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## Stu-Crossfire

Very helpfull review, thanks mate, delidding stuff being ordered today.


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## neoroy

I heard from my local friend who has bought and use liquid pro, that it is a great product







got 10c better temp with the same 3rdparty cooler HSF.
I wanted to use Liquid Ultra in the future but abit afraid of staining







how it would effect on procie surface at long term? Like 3 - 6months?
Thanks for this thread *Tw33k*


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## jprovido

i did a horrible job in applying the Coolab liquid pro on both the IHS(delidded 3570k) and the h80i. you can't mess up the application imho. my temps are still great given the very crude tim application done by me lol


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## tw33k

Glad this has been useful to some of you.

I thought I had applied too much Liquid Ultra for my 5GHz test (in fact I was sure I did). So, I pulled it apart and applied the smallest amount I could. I ran the test @ 5GHZ again and temps were no better. In fact they were 1c warmer!

I just received 3x Liquid Ultra and 3x Liquid Pro so I will continue testing. I'll add pics showing how much compound I used.

I really wish I somewhere to put a test bench but I just don't have the space for more equipment.


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## stickg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Glad this has been useful to some of you.
> 
> I thought I had applied too much Liquid Ultra for my 5GHz test (in fact I was sure I did). So, I pulled it apart and applied the smallest amount I could. I ran the test @ 5GHZ again and temps were no better. In fact they were 1c warmer!
> 
> I just received 3x Liquid Ultra and 3x Liquid Pro so I will continue testing. I'll add pics showing how much compound I used.
> 
> I really wish I somewhere to put a test bench but I just don't have the space for more equipment.


Open side panel, lay case down on its side, test bench. LOL


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## Blameless

I've used both Liquid Pro and Liquid Ultra, if anything Ultra is easier to remove, but both will force you to lap most parts to completely get rid of it. Part of the reason for this is because I usually only apply them to bare copper (parts that have already been lapped).

I found Ultra slightly easier to apply, and more controllable, but didn't notice any difference in performance vs. Pro. I have not tried applying either of these to bare dies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> ^82w/mk sounds like bs, and yea the same thing about why would a company release an update that is inferior (it's happened before... but it's still weird).


82 W/mK doesn't terribly far fetched, given it's supposed component parts, though I would not be at all surprised if it was less.

At these bondline thicknesses, wetability, and consistency are going to significantly trump thermal conductivity in performance. It's quite possible for one TIM to outperform another in practice, even with half the thermal conductivity, if it has other properties that are more favorable. There is certainly a point of diminishing returns that comes well before the oft quoted conductivities of either LiquidPro or LiquidUltra.


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## maarten12100

Those new experimental mercury based pastes really perform well although the part applying it is a real pain also the aluminum intolerance might be a problem for some.
I use Phoyba liquid metal cools quite well. (way beter than simple artic silver)


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> Open side panel, lay case down on its side, test bench. LOL


lol..why didn't I think of that









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I've used both Liquid Pro and Liquid Ultra, if anything Ultra is easier to remove, but both will force you to lap most parts to completely get rid of it. Part of the reason for this is because I usually only apply them to bare copper (parts that have already been lapped).
> 
> I found Ultra slightly easier to apply, and more controllable, but didn't notice any difference in performance vs. Pro. I have not tried applying either of these to bare dies.
> 82 W/mK doesn't terribly far fetched, given it's supposed component parts, *though I would not be at all surprised if it was less*.
> 
> At these bondline thicknesses, wetability, and consistency are going to significantly trump thermal conductivity in performance. It's quite possible for one TIM to outperform another in practice, even with half the thermal conductivity, if it has other properties that are more favorable. There is certainly a point of diminishing returns that comes well before the oft quoted conductivities of either LiquidPro or LiquidUltra.


It's much less. See the OP for actual figures
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Those new experimental mercury based pastes really perform well although the part applying it is a real pain also the aluminum intolerance might be a problem for some.
> I use Phoyba liquid metal cools quite well. (way beter than simple artic silver)


You wouldn't use mercury as a thermal compound. That would be bad


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## TSXmike

good read! thanks for doing this.


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## Eeyore888

How well does this work for just a normal application (No removal of IHS)? I have AS5 and have some IC Diamond coming tomorrow. But this stuff really caught my eye when I saw the application process. Seems way more forgiving than paste.


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## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TSXmike*
> 
> good read! thanks for doing this.


Glad you like it

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eeyore888*
> 
> How well does this work for just a normal application (No removal of IHS)? I have AS5 and have some IC Diamond coming tomorrow. But this stuff really caught my eye when I saw the application process. Seems way more forgiving than paste.


I used Liquid Ultra on my AMD FX-8150 which is not de-lidded and @ 4.5GHz 1.37v got a delta temp of only 9.8c (max core temp was only 36c) Compare that with Antec Formula 7 (which is a very good thermal paste) 24.6c delta and hottest core hit 44c. Liquid metal TIM is awesome!


----------



## Eeyore888

So the "delta" temp is the diode correct? And it's temp doesn't really matter, just the individual core temp can't go over 60c?

I just installed some IC Diamond and ran 2 tests of IntelBurn at standard settings with 10 passes each. Max diode temp was 54c max core temp was 43c. 4.81ghz 1.475v

And does the Liquid Pro bead out the edges of the proc? I think I read that it solidifies after 48 hours.


----------



## tw33k

Delta temp is the average core temp minus the ambient temp. These Coolabs compounds don't pump out at all nor do the solidify.


----------



## justanoldman

Cleaning Ultra is not quick, but it is rather simple to do. Here is my post on it:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/11090#post_19227369

Thanks for the thread, good information.


----------



## Eeyore888

My stuff should be here today or tomorrow!

And I've been reading the temp wrong the entire time... The temp that lists in the bios and on AIDA 64 as "CPU" is actually the on-motherboard temp reading which isn't the one to pay attention to. The mobo PCB can withstand an incredible amount of heat.

But the correct temp to read is the individual "CPU Core" temp. My max is only 44c with IC Diamond and idle is between 4-11c







I can't wait to see how well the Liquid Pro handles it





















It will make a world of a difference when I install my 2 full cover waterblocks in my loop.


----------



## Inacoma79

+rep tw33k, dude youre awesome!

I delidded my 3570K yesterday and applied a lot of clu. If I could provide some reference as to the amount I applied to the die it would be equivalent to this many o's: *oooo* (I really wish I took pics of the whole process). Because I was rushing a bit I didn't even spread it with the brush and just placed the IHS directly on top.

My initial observation for what it's worth: I didn't notice a significant drop in idle temps that I was expecting, maybe ~1-2C cooler on the hottest core. However, I did run a couple 15 min sessions of prime 95 and my highest core hit 70C @ x45, v1.302 and stabilized between 60-65C, whereas I was in the 70-80's before delidding. So we can speculate that delidding and applying clu does help to reduce temps at higher cpu loads. I'll post my initial results this evening.

So after reading some of the post I'll be reapply clu (the proper way) in the next few days and will post pics and updated results. PS. I used AS5 on the my 212 Evo and the center dot method on the IHS (top).


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



12HR P95 stable before delid

1HR P95 after delid using CLU on the die, AS5 on the IHS


----------



## tw33k

Glad you like the thread.

I'll soon be running tests using different amounts to see how much is too little and how much is too much. I'll include pics to show exactly how much was used for each test


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Glad you like the thread.
> 
> I'll soon be running tests using different amounts to see how much is too little and how much is too much. I'll include pics to show exactly how much was used for each test


Very important to test different amounts, in my opinion.
When I used Ultra on the die, so many people said don't use too much, so I did a very thin layer. Then I tried a little more, like they show on their website and got better temps. So it is definitely possible to use too little, or too much. Thanks for looking into this.

The only problem you will have is that your amounts will not apply perfectly to everyone. After having three 3770k chips, and testing each one, I found that they all had different levels of convexity on the IHS. So while testing different amount is very important, each person will have to test slightly different amount on their system because their IHS and cooler block will not be exactly the same as yours. Not a big deal, just thought I would mention it.


----------



## Eeyore888

I have this on a FX-6100 running at 4ghz on the stock FX-8350 heat sink... it maxes at 44c after 10 passes intelburn test


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Very important to test different amounts, in my opinion.
> When I used Ultra on the die, so many people said don't use too much, so I did a very thin layer. Then I tried a little more, like they show on their website and got better temps. So it is definitely possible to use too little, or too much. Thanks for looking into this.
> 
> The only problem you will have is that your amounts will not apply perfectly to everyone. After having three 3770k chips, and testing each one, I found that they all had different levels of convexity on the IHS. So while testing different amount is very important, each person will have to test slightly different amount on their system because their IHS and cooler block will not be exactly the same as yours. Not a big deal, just thought I would mention it.


No test results will "apply perfectly to everyone" but they will give people a pretty good idea as to what to expect. A while back I applied what I thought was too much Liquid Ultra but I kept it on and ran a quick test. Then I cleaned it off and used the smallest amount I could, ran another quick test and temps were worse so you're right when you say it's "definitely possible to use too little, or too much"


----------



## Eeyore888

So I tried this on my FX-6100 with the stock cooler from my FX-8350... The initial results were amazing! Great temps! Had it at 1.45v and was only hitting 57c!!!

After a month of use, I started noticing degradation. Then all OC attempts failed in overheating. So I decided to remove the TIM and try another cooler... This next part I nearly puked out of fear for what I had done... While trying to remove the heat sink, the TIM had FUSED the copper to my CPU heat spreader!!! I did not know this and applied a little extra elbow grease which resulted in my ripping the damn CPU from the mobo socket!!! I about cried!!! The only way to separate the heatsink from the CPU was with a chisel!!! I am so thankful I did not try this on my main rig...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eeyore888*
> 
> So I tried this on my FX-6100 with the stock cooler from my FX-8350... The initial results were amazing! Great temps! Had it at 1.45v and was only hitting 57c!!!
> 
> After a month of use, I started noticing degradation. Then all OC attempts failed in overheating. So I decided to remove the TIM and try another cooler... This next part I nearly puked out of fear for what I had done... While trying to remove the heat sink, the TIM had FUSED the copper to my CPU heat spreader!!! I did not know this and applied a little extra elbow grease which resulted in my ripping the damn CPU from the mobo socket!!! I about cried!!! The only way to separate the heatsink from the CPU was with a chisel!!! I am so thankful I did not try this on my main rig...


If the base was made of pure copper your IHS must've been made of aluminum causing thing to ga bad even the slightest mix of those will screw everything up.
I use phoyba LM which essentialy is the same but I apply it direct to the die with the caps transistors on the chip taped off.


----------



## Inacoma79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> If the base was made of pure copper your IHS must've been made of aluminum causing thing to ga bad even the slightest mix of those will screw everything up.
> I use phoyba LM which essentialy is the same but I apply it direct to the die with the caps transistors on the chip taped off.


Just did a quick google search to see if anyone has compared the two (Phobya LM vs CLP/CLU), nothing came up. You should add your two-cents to this thread, mate. It would be great to get more data out there on other liquid metal TIMs.

Right now I'm using CLU on the die and inside of my IHS of my delided 3570K. I'm using IC Diamond between the IHS and H220 block and my prime runs are leveling out at around 58C's.


----------



## homestyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Delta temp is the average core temp minus the ambient temp. These Coolabs compounds don't pump out at all nor do the solidify.


I thought the Pro version did solidify after 6-12 months.

The ultra stayed a liquid, which is also why its easier to remove.


----------



## Eeyore888

My liquid pro solidified after only 1 month. And no, the was absolutely zero contact with aluminum.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eeyore888*
> 
> My liquid pro solidified after only 1 month. And no, the was absolutely zero contact with aluminum.


That is normal, I use CLU a lot, and it will harden between the IHS and your cooler, but not between the die and IHS. It can be removed from the die easily, but removing it from the IHS and cooler takes metal polish, a roll of paper towels, and some time.


----------



## Belial

I did a few tests myself. When remounting a heatsink without reapplying CLU, temps go up about 4*C. I also had about a 6*C temp improvement by applying a very conservative amount of CLU on both the IHS and heatsink base (on heatsink base I literally just brushed what was left on the brush, no need to push any extra from the tube) than just on the IHS alone.
Quote:


> If the base was made of pure copper your IHS must've been made of aluminum causing thing to ga bad even the slightest mix of those will screw everything up.
> I use phoyba LM which essentialy is the same but I apply it direct to the die with the caps transistors on the chip taped off.


IHS are not made of aluminum, particularly AMD FX IHS.


----------



## tw33k

I just ordered all the parts for a test bench (see sig) so I can finally do more testing between these 2.


----------



## Eeyore888

The IHS does not remove from the FX chip. I only had it between the the fan heatsink and the CPU. If you look closely at my pic, you can see the force pulled the heat spreader off my CPU... This seems like more of a permanent solution and I will not be using it on my 8350.


----------



## Ljanmi

If I apply Ultra on CPU IHS lets say 8350 and after six months I change a heatsink, I suppose removal will be a problem? Will I loose CPU warranty because of physical damage made to the CPU IHS while attempting removal?

PS Already ordered one Ultra, it will be delivered in about a week...


----------



## Eeyore888

From my experience... I do not feel comfortable putting this on my $200 chip. Just stick with IC Diamond, stuff is great.


----------



## Ljanmi

? Not saying it is truth


----------



## Ljanmi

Interesting...


----------



## Ljanmi

Very interesting - Chemical characterization:
Alloy of the metal components gallium, indium, rhodium, silver, zinc and stannous, bismuth;
suspended in a graphite-copper matrix









Update

Found some more info - http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/40806_2/Termointerfejsy_testirovanie_28_aktualnyh_modelej_termopast.html and http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/40806_9/Termointerfejsy_testirovanie_28_aktualnyh_modelej_termopast.html - its a russian just, use google translate. Very interesting results about Artic Cooling MX-3, I dont know how realistic it is dough









These guys are really unhappy with Ultra







- http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?249495-Liquid-Metal-Ultra-Does-it-alter-HSF-base-surface/page2 - just saying...

My God, look at this guy with Indigo Extreme







- http://www.evga.com/forums/fb.ashx?m=1165965


----------



## tw33k

Those people on xtremesystems didn't spread the Liquid Ultra over the IHS, instead they put a drop in the middle like a regular TIM. No wonder they had problems. I'm not saying it doesn't cause staining because it definitely does, I'm just saying it was made worse by the way they applied it.


----------



## Eeyore888

From what I'm seeing... unless you have a mirror finish on your copper, it will still fuse to it... thus giving the chance of ripping the CPU from the mobo socket when you want to remove the heatsink. My opinion, don't use this stuff on super expensive chips unless you can afford to replace a CPU/mobo in the off chance your setup will fuse to itself.


----------



## tw33k

Indigo Xtreme is more likely to "fuse" the chip to the heatsink than Liquid Ultra. Having said that from all accounts I've come across separation was possible but both the IHS and the heatsink base required sanding to remove residue. The idea of liquid metal TIM is to "set and forget" You put it on and you leave it on. It's not meant to be changed frequently.


----------



## justanoldman

CLU will dry and harden between your IHS and cooler over time. You will have to pull them apart, but being careful and using a little back and forth motion it they will come apart without damaging anything. Here is my previous post with pics:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/15350#post_19644142

You do not in any way need to sand off the CLU residue. It will come off after about an hour of using metal polish and paper towels.

This info applies to two different copper cold plates I have used and a lapped Ivy IHS.


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Here is my previous post with pics:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/15350#post_19644142
> 
> You do not in any way need to sand off the CLU residue. It will come off after about an hour of using metal polish and paper towels.
> 
> This info applies to two different copper cold plates I have used and a lapped Ivy IHS.


Yeah, but you got your IHS sanded/laped and thats ok but what about people that use regular IHS and want to save warranty on the 300$ chip? Will metal polish damage the serial number print(it counts as physical damage and warranty void)?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ljanmi*
> 
> Yeah, but you got your IHS sanded/laped and thats ok but what about people that use regular IHS and want to save warranty on the 300$ chip? Will metal polish damage the serial number print(it counts as physical damage and warranty void)?


I always recommend against using liquid metal TIMs on the IHS unless people know what they are doing and know what they are getting into. I posted to show that while it does take a little force to separate the cooler and IHS over time, you definitely don't have to do any damage. Also you don't need any sanding to remove the TIM residue.

As to your point, you are right, the combination of the TIM and polish may take some of the printing off, I am waiting for someone to confirm that since I can't with mine being lapped. The main point I assumed is that I don't really see anyone talking about using a liquid metal TIM on the IHS unless they are delidded since we use those TIMs on the die. If you are delidded warranty per the markings on the IHS are moot.


----------



## Ljanmi

Yeah, I understand. It would be the best TIM ever if it could be removed safely without damaging IHS print. I'm very interested in seeing Ultra removed after few months from regular IHS with metal polish or whatever used to remove Ultra safely. I found out about those cons just a few minutes after I made a payment and the process was sadly irreversible


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I always recommend against using liquid metal TIMs on the IHS unless people know what they are doing and know what they are getting into. I posted to show that while it does take a little force to separate the cooler and IHS over time, you definitely don't have to do any damage. Also you don't need any sanding to remove the TIM residue.
> 
> As to your point, you are right, the combination of the TIM and polish may take some of the printing off, I am waiting for someone to confirm that since I can't with mine being lapped. The main point I assumed is that I don't really see anyone talking about using a liquid metal TIM on the IHS unless they are delidded since we use those TIMs on the die. If you are delidded warranty per the markings on the IHS are moot.


You say you were able to completely remove it without sanding but how long did you have it on for before you removed it? I've spoken to lots of people and have seen for myself that Liquid Ultra won't come off without sanding if left on for a good few months. Maybe some kind of metal polish is the secret. I'm going to try it myself and see.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ljanmi*
> 
> Yeah, I understand. It would be the best TIM ever if it could be removed safely without damaging IHS print. I'm very interested in seeing Ultra removed after few months from regular IHS with metal polish or whatever used to remove Ultra safely. I found out about those cons just a few minutes after I made a payment and the process was sadly irreversible


It only does a few c better than a high end regular TIM, so on the IHS is really a personal call. Worth the trouble to some, like me, and not to others.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> You say you were able to completely remove it without sanding but how long did you have it on for before you removed it? I've spoken to lots of people and have seen for myself that Liquid Ultra won't come off without sanding if left on for a good few months. Maybe some kind of metal polish is the secret. I'm going to try it myself and see.


It was after a month, more than enough time to complete dry and harden. If I didn't know about the metal polish I would have sanded it too. Alcohol made no difference, I don't think I would have come up with a way to get it off without sanding had I not known about the metal polish. It also takes about an hour to completely remove it, more like 20 minutes if you just want to get it cleaned up enough to replay the CLU again.


----------



## tw33k

Definitely something I'm going to try once I de-lid the chip and start testing again


----------



## danwat1234

Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra isn't all that good after a year of hard use. In fact, it completely hardens / dries. On my X9100 after 9 months I started seeing high temps and after 1 year auto shut downs while crunching. Turns out it was shutting off because it hit the 105 C thermal protection.
Opened it up; thermal compound was as hard as a rock. has to pocket knife blade and sand it down.
So for longevity it sucks.
I wonder if IC Diamond lasts a lot longer. A few degrees difference doesn't matter at all, it's long term longevity because the temperature difference will reverse and widen if it starts to wear out.


----------



## Amareee

I got Ultra today, probably the biggest waste of money. My heat sink came with pre applied pasted which cooled my cpu to 73C with this paste my CPU gets to 73C now I have to worry about replacing it every year. All I gotta say is im moving back to the other paste once this paste dries up.

Pure waste of 20€not worth it unless you got the worse paste in the world then you might see a 1-2 degrees differences.

Just like to say using this paste it increase one of my cores temp by 2 degrees


----------



## tw33k

If you only used the liquid ultra on top of the heatsink then you will only see marginally better temps. Where you see huge improvement is by de-lidding and using the liquid metal on the die


----------



## SonDa5

I have been using clp with good results and just ordered a syringe of clu to try it out.


----------



## The Real Deal

Post to follow


----------



## SonDa5

I just switched out CLP for CLU and the results are nearly the same.

100% load with Linpack AVX2 @4.4GHZ 4770k 1.2v.

CLP 68 75 77 72 Ambient Temps 24C
CLU 68 75 75 73 Ambient Temps 24C

CLU barely won in my test. I like both of em. CLP is hard to clean. Not sure how hard CLU is to clean yet.

This is on a water cooled bare die direct to block no IHS mount that I have nearly perfected between 3570k mounts, 3770k mounts and now 4770k mounts. I feel confident it is a flat contact mount.


----------



## tw33k

I found ultra way easier to clean.


----------



## tw33k

*Test System*
Intel 3770K @ 4.8GHz 1.2v
ASRock OC Formula
G-Skill Trident X 16GB 2400MHz
Corsair H100i (low fan speed)
SanDisk Extreme 120GB SSD
Corsair AX760i PSU

Aida64 was run for 1 hour stressing FPU only
Ambient temperature was recorded at the start, after half an hour and at the finish using a digital thermo sensor



*Phobya*
• Easy to spread
• Easy to clean off
• Ran test 3 times to confirm results. 3rd test was aborted due to temp hitting high 60s

*Liquid Pro*
• Takes some time to spread on HIS
• Pain to clean off
• Test was run 2 times to confirm results

*Liquid Ultra*
• Very easy to apply
• Used a tiny amount. I wiped it off the end of the syringe with the brush and onto the die
• Very easy to clean off

I know some people are going to dispute the vailidity of these results but I stand by them. During the first Phobya test, I thought I did something wrong so when it finished I immediately removed the chip, cleaned it and reapplied for a second test. I ran a third test to confirm and published the best result. Also, when I saw how much the Ultra beat the Pro by, I re-ran the test with Pro to confirm results.


----------



## Stige

Dayum, gotta get me some of dat Ultra.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> *Test System*
> 
> I know some people are going to dispute the vailidity of these results but I stand by them. During the first Phobya test, I thought I did something wrong so when it finished I immediately removed the chip, cleaned it and reapplied for a second test. I ran a third test to confirm and published the best result. Also, when I saw how much the Ultra beat the Pro by, I re-ran the test with Pro to confirm results.


My testing has been with water cooled bare die direct to block mount and my results were very close. I have mounted my block at least a dozen times and I have it down. I think your mounts was not the same in between tests.


----------



## RnRollie

if CLU is such a problem -drying out, losing performance- has anybody contacted CoolLabs yet, and what was their reply?


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> My testing has been with water cooled bare die direct to block mount and my results were very close. I have mounted my block at least a dozen times and I have it down. I think your mounts was not the same in between tests.


I ran the tests multiple times because I thought I did something wrong but got the same results each time. I'd like to see your results as a comparison.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I ran the tests multiple times because I thought I did something wrong but got the same results each time. I'd like to see your results as a comparison.


First of all if your chip delidded? Are you running direct block to die or with IHS?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> First of all if your chip delidded? Are you running direct block to die or with IHS?


He wrote it's delidded. The test is with CLU/CLP/PLM painted on die, IHS inside, IHS outside, cooler's base.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> He wrote it's delidded. The test is with CLU/CLP/PLM painted on die, IHS inside, IHS outside, cooler's base.


I don't see where he wrote that but if he did sandwhich the IHS with CLP its so thin and with the IHS in there the chances of poor contact on mount is high. Bare diwe contact with only surface of block making contact is a lot more accurate for getting good mounts and that is how's I did my tests.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I don't see where he wrote that but if he did sand which the IHS with CLP its so think and with the IHS in there the chances of poor contact on mount is high. Bare diwe contact with only surface of block making contact is a lot more accurate for getting good mounts and that is how's I did my tests.


He wrote it in the opening post of the thread somewhere. He also says he repeated every test a bunch of times and took the best result. I don't see anything off and feel it's a pretty great test.

Perhaps CLU and CLP behave differently if things aren't perfect like they are for you. It could be your block being completely flat, perhaps lapped and mirror finish and whatnot. But the IHS is concave usually, doesn't have a mirror finish, not on the inside and not on the outside, and a typical cooler's base is convex to work better with the concave IHS. It could be CLU beating CLP by a lot because of that. That would happen if CLU conducts heat better than CLP if there are large gaps to fill which don't show up in your bare die situation. Also, with bare die there's only one surface. With the IHS there's a second one, so a difference in performance will be larger.

In any case, a test with IHS is a lot more interesting for me personally. I won't ever do bare die so I'm pretty grateful for this test with IHS included.


----------



## SonDa5

I have pressure paper tested my block for proper surface contact against die.

Direct to die.



Block to IHS.



The solid color shows good even contact. You can clearly see that with only the top part of the heat sink there is alot of bad contact going on and that is where you will get alot of inconsistencies when comparing different TIMS. Its that uneven space that the TIM is trying to fill and there is no way to get a good mount with it.

Don't forget about the bottom side of the die against the IHS which also has to be looked at for proper contact. I never tested the gap in between the bottom of the IHS and the die so I can't show any proof for it like I have with the IHS and DIE but with my photos I hope you understand my point about how important good even contact is.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> He wrote it in the opening post of the thread somewhere. He also says he repeated every test a bunch of times and took the best result. I don't see anything off and feel it's a pretty great test.
> 
> Perhaps CLU and CLP behave differently if things aren't perfect like they are for you. It could be your block being completely flat, perhaps lapped and mirror finish and whatnot. But the IHS is convex usually, doesn't have a mirror finish, not on the inside and not on the outside, and a typical cooler's base is convex to work better with the concave IHS. It could be CLU beating CLP by a lot because of that. That would happen if CLU conducts heat better than CLP if there are large gaps to fill which don't show up in your bare die situation. Also, with bare die there's only one surface. With the IHS there's a second one, so a difference in performance will be larger.
> 
> In any case, a test with IHS is a lot more interesting for me personally. I won't ever do bare die so I'm pretty grateful for this test with IHS included.


Thanks mate. I understand people being skeptical about these results. I was too at first which is why I ran them multiple times. I have done this kind of testing quite a few times and I know what I'm doing. I'm tempted to run the Liquid Pro and Phobya tests a couple more times so I'm 100% certain that I have done everything properly. You can tell by the Liquid Ultra results that I nailed it (the results are awesome) and I didn't do anything differently with the Pro or Phobya.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Thanks mate. I understand people being skeptical about these results. I was too at first which is why I ran them multiple times. I have done this kind of testing quite a few times and I know what I'm doing. I'm tempted to run the Liquid Pro and Phobya tests a couple more times so I'm 100% certain that I have done everything properly. You can tell by the Liquid Ultra results that I nailed it (the results are awesome) and I didn't do anything differently with the Pro or Phobya.


I did read that you applied CLP to HIS(you mean IHS) and I read about putting some CLU on the die then the CLP. Sorry about not seeing that.

I've seen other people test between CLP and CLU and the results is close but the CLU is a little better but not as much as what you are getting and I blame your IHS mount. You think you are getting the same mounts but your IHS is probably all sloppy. Do some contact paper pressure test like I have and you will see if your IHS has good contact with you heat sink.

I like how CLP applies better but I like the slight improvement in thermal performance of the CLU. I have yet to see how CLU cleans but the
CLP was a pain in the ass to clean but worth it to me. So far CLU is the winner based on thermal performance in my book but by just a few degrees from what I have experienced. Maybe I got a bad batch of CLU.


----------



## maarten12100

Wait so phoyba liquid metal performs like a dud?!
I have a tube of that which I was planing to use on 2 dies


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I did read that you applied CLP to HIS(you mean IHS) and I read about putting some CLU on the die then the CLP. Sorry about not seeing that.
> 
> I've seen other people test between CLP and CLU and the results is close but the CLU is a little better but not as much as what you are getting and I blame your IHS mount. You think you are getting the same mounts but your IHS is probably all sloppy. Do some contact paper pressure test like I have and you will see if your IHS has good contact with you heat sink.
> 
> I like how CLP applies better but I like the slight improvement in thermal performance of the CLU. I have yet to see how CLU cleans but the
> CLP was a pain in the ass to clean but worth it to me. So far CLU is the winner based on thermal performance in my book but by just a few degrees from what I have experienced. Maybe I got a bad batch of CLU.


Where did I type HIS? It's pretty hard to screw up the mounting of the H100i so I doubt it's because of that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Wait so phoyba liquid metal performs like a dud?!
> I have a tube of that which I was planing to use on 2 dies


I would hardly call it a dud. An average core temp of 55.9c with the chip clocked @ 4.8GHz is still a good result.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I don't see where he wrote that but if he did sandwhich the IHS with CLP its so thin and with the IHS in there the chances of poor contact on mount is high. Bare diwe contact with only surface of block making contact is a lot more accurate for getting good mounts and that is how's I did my tests.


I disagree. It's far easier to mount the H100i on to the IHS then it is bare die.With the IHS on you just tighten until the screws stop. With bare die you have to be very careful not to apply too much pressure and also need to make sure the pressure is even. I can't see how you can claim it's "more accurate"


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I have pressure paper tested my block for proper surface contact against die.
> 
> Direct to die.
> 
> 
> 
> Block to IHS.
> 
> 
> 
> The solid color shows good even contact. You can clearly see that with only the top part of the heat sink there is alot of bad contact going on and that is where you will get alot of inconsistencies when comparing different TIMS. Its that uneven space that the TIM is trying to fill and there is no way to get a good mount with it.
> 
> Don't forget about the bottom side of the die against the IHS which also has to be looked at for proper contact. I never tested the gap in between the bottom of the IHS and the die so I can't show any proof for it like I have with the IHS and DIE but with my photos I hope you understand my point about how important good even contact is.


Thanks for sharing this, it's great. +rep.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I would hardly call it a dud. An average core temp of 55.9c with the chip clocked @ 4.8GHz is still a good result.


I'll use it in a space of 50x200x240mm of which only 20% is actually empty and I'm outputing about 150/200 watt over two tiny radiators.
Guess it should be fine though it might actually run "cool"


----------



## BaK2BaK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Don't forget about the bottom side of the die against the IHS which also has to be looked at for proper contact.


That is what I got on my delidded 3570k:

Die - IHS contact


IHS - Noctua NH-C14 contact


IHS - Noctua NH-C14 contact after IHS lapping


----------



## Stige

What kinda paper is that? Would be nice to try it out.


----------



## BaK2BaK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> What kinda paper is that? Would be nice to try it out.


I got some free samples of Pressurex-micro Green from Sensor Products.
I asked for the PMG1 film type (1 to 50 PSI) sample.

PM me if you would like the email address of their specialist who contacted me.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaK2BaK*
> 
> I got some free samples of Pressurex-micro Green from Sensor Products.
> I asked for the PMG1 film type (1 to 50 PSI) sample.
> 
> PM me if you would like the email address of their specialist who contacted me.


Applied for the free sample of Pressurex-micro Green, but sure feel free to PM me the info


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Applied for the free sample of Pressurex-micro Green, but sure feel free to PM me the info


For Bare Die mount I don't think you need 50 PSI pressure. Seems like too much pressure.

I use a light pressure mount with CLP or CLU. High pressure mount is needed for TIMS that require pressure to spread. I think Light even contact pressure is better.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> For Bare Die mount I don't think you need 50 PSI pressure. Seems like too much pressure.
> 
> I use a light pressure mount with CLP or CLU. High pressure mount is needed for TIMS that require pressure to spread. I think Light even contact pressure is better.


Did you quote the right person? lol

If you did, I tried bare die mount at first but couldn't get enough pressure on it to even get it to boot.
Works just fine with the IHS on though.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Applied for the free sample of Pressurex-micro Green, but sure feel free to PM me the info


Code:



Code:


A sample will go out today. Should work fine for your application.

Best Regards,

Bob Budney
Application Specialist
Sensor Products Inc.

Great company, such a fast reply and actually sending a sample.

If it seems fine I will order some higher pressure stuff for car related work aswell.


----------



## tw33k

Improved result for Liquid Pro



The chip already had Pro on it from my last lot of testing so I removed the IHS and added more to the die. I would never have recommended this in the past but the results speak for themselves. Delta temp dropped by 3.1c. No such luck with Phobya tho. In fact, the results were much worse. Hottest core hit 63c. I still have a lot left so I'll keep trying.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Did you quote the right person? lol
> 
> If you did, I tried bare die mount at first but couldn't get enough pressure on it to even get it to boot.
> Works just fine with the IHS on though.


It's not about getting "enough" pressure. You need light EVEN pressure for the cpu to sit in the socket correctly. i also add some .5mm fujipoly thermal pad around the die to increase the over all contact pressure and help stabilize the mount and i think this also helps increase over all heat transfer foot print of total cpu package.


----------



## tw33k

I just polished my H100i with Brasso. I only did a quick 5 minute job to see if it worked and temps dropped 5c. Gave it a mirror finish. I've got more Liquid Ultra coming so I will do a proper job on the heatsink and IHS and see what temps I get.

Before


After


The Liquid Ultra I applied for this test must have been the perfect amount. Hottest core was only 53c and the average was 49c. I've tried 4 times but can't get near that again. Best I got is hottest core 59c average is ~54c. I remember I only used a very small amount. It didn't even come out of the syringe properly, I had to wipe it off and onto the die. I've run out now but have 3 more syringes coming so I can keep trying.


----------



## munim

@tw33k Could you please update the first post with what you think are best practices with regards to application of CLU / CLP to get the best results for temperature? Like should the TIM be applied both on the die and the underside of the IHS or just on the die. Tips like that would be appreciated if you noticed that one method is better than another. Thanks.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munim*
> 
> @tw33k Could you please update the first post with what you think are best practices with regards to application of CLU / CLP to get the best results for temperature? Like should the TIM be applied both on the die and the underside of the IHS or just on the die. Tips like that would be appreciated if you noticed that one method is better than another. Thanks.


I added an update to the OP which I'll keep updated as I do more testing. I'm also going to test different TIMs on top of the IHS when I get some time.


----------



## Blackroush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> I didn't accurately document my results of Pro vs Ultra. By the time I tested with Ultra on the same chip I used Pro on originally I was on a different motherboard. I do like that Pro has an actual needle on the syringe. The Ultra I bought had leaked out of the cap and was a mess. Probably the retailer or carriers fault but I wasn't happy. I got two applications out of it compared to the 7 applications I got of Pro.
> 
> The results didn't seem too far off though.


Just bought liquid ultra and got a leak too


----------



## tw33k

3 more syringes of Liquid Ultra arrived. More testing tomorrow. I need to get back those temps I was getting earlier.


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I just polished my H100i with Brasso. I only did a quick 5 minute job to see if it worked and temps dropped 5c. Gave it a mirror finish. I've got more Liquid Ultra coming so I will do a proper job on the heatsink and IHS and see what temps I get.
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> After
> 
> 
> The Liquid Ultra I applied for this test must have been the perfect amount. Hottest core was only 53c and the average was 49c. I've tried 4 times but can't get near that again. Best I got is hottest core 59c average is ~54c. I remember I only used a very small amount. It didn't even come out of the syringe properly, I had to wipe it off and onto the die. I've run out now but have 3 more syringes coming so I can keep trying.


You got 5C drop in temp after using the Brasso on the block? or u mean after using the Liquid Ultra / Pro tim?


----------



## Snuckie7

So how big of a problem is the apparent degradation with CLU? I have CLU on my GPU so it regularly gets blasted with temps in the 75C range.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> So how big of a problem is the apparent degradation with CLU? I have CLU on my GPU so it regularly gets blasted with temps in the 75C range.


I had it on the CPU for about six months before I got the itch to tweak things and I didn't see any change at all when testing. It seemed to be the exact same temperatures as at the start when running IBT and prime95.

Taking off the cooler after those five months, the CLU didn't look much different as when it was new, and it could be nearly completely wiped away. There were spots that looked like it had clumped up. Those spots weren't fused with the IHS or cooler's base. I got everything cleaned with a rubber (an eraser). Those spots were time consuming to get off and I'm guessing I should have used metal polish instead of the rubber... With every wipe, it got stuffed up by dirt which had to be wiped off on a paper. It was gliding on the IHS and wouldn't disintegrate with dirt like when used on paper.

I have a hunch it wouldn't at all be annoying to replace if you'd use metal polish. You'd probably want to wipe everything off with alcohol afterwards as all the metal polish you'll find in the supermarket mentions something about leaving some sort of residue for protection on the metal.

That said... I'm not sure it will ever degrade. Even if it clumps up eventually, that doesn't have to mean it will be worse for conducting heat. The temperatures could just not change forever, and if that's the case you'd never have to replace it.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> You got 5C drop in temp after using the Brasso on the block? or u mean after using the Liquid Ultra / Pro tim?


I got the 5c temp drop after using the brasso and adding new Liquid Ultra but I can't get temps near that again. I've tried quite a few times and I think the best I've got was 53c across all cores (definitely not below 50c) I've tried changing the amount I use, being careful when I tighten the H100i but can't get it below 50c (with a 14.5c ambient that is)


----------



## Kold

I just bought some on Amazon and it arrived leaking too. Just a small clump, but still annoying having paid 15 dollars for it. Forgive me for not scouring this thread, but when I do apply it, I should use way less than I'm used to using with AS5?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I just bought some on Amazon and it arrived leaking too. Just a small clump, but still annoying having paid 15 dollars for it. Forgive me for not scouring this thread, but when I do apply it, I should use way less than I'm used to using with AS5?


Try to just get the brush "wet" at the tip of the CLU syringe instead of starting by putting down a drop on the surface you want to paint. Then be a bit patient while experimenting with what you have on the brush and learn how it behaves before you decide you need some more out of the syringe.


----------



## Kold

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Try to just get the brush "wet" at the tip of the CLU syringe instead of starting by putting down a drop on the surface you want to paint. Then be a bit patient while experimenting with what you have on the brush and learning how it behaves before you decide you need some more out of the syringe.


When you say get one of the brushes wet, you mean put the but at the tip of the CLU and get a little bit on it before applying some CLU to the top of my CPU?


----------



## deepor

Yup. You can get it to cover a ridiculously large area with very little CLU. This will be a lot less than what you know from AS5, but it would perhaps be too thin a layer for the best temperatures. If you start by putting a drop on the CPU, the reverse might happen and you'll have too thick a layer for best temperatures.

Also, it seems you can take off your cooler and add CLU without first cleaning the old CLU off.


----------



## Kold

Alright, I appreciate the tips. I will definitely try that method. I read this review from FrozenCPU and it has me worried. Anyone else have it dry up?

" Works well at first, but dries up over time!
06-06-2013
Reviewer: danwat1234 (1)
At first on my laptop it worked really well, but, Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra isn''t all that good after a year of hard use of nearly 24/7 at about 85 Celsius. In fact, it completely hardens / dries. On my X9100 after 9 months I started seeing high temps and after 1 year auto shut downs while crunching. Turns out it was shutting off because it hit the 105 C thermal protection. Opened it up; thermal compound was as hard as a rock. has to pocket knife blade and sand it down. So for longevity it sucks. I bought a tube of Arctic MX-2, which claims an 8-year durability and decent thermal conductivity. Decent performance and reliability is much better than high performance and unreliable imo."


----------



## deepor

I've only seen it after about 5 months at most. It still looked fluid and like it was new on first look. After wiping it off there were some spots that needed a good amount of rubbing to clean. Metal polish would make that easier I suppose. After finishing the cleaning, both IHS and cooler's base looked fine. It was a cooler with nickel plated mirror finish.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> Alright, I appreciate the tips. I will definitely try that method. I read this review from FrozenCPU and it has me worried. Anyone else have it dry up?
> 
> " Works well at first, but dries up over time!
> 06-06-2013
> Reviewer: danwat1234 (1)
> At first on my laptop it worked really well, but, Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra isn''t all that good after a year of hard use of nearly 24/7 at about 85 Celsius. In fact, it completely hardens / dries. On my X9100 after 9 months I started seeing high temps and after 1 year auto shut downs while crunching. Turns out it was shutting off because it hit the 105 C thermal protection. Opened it up; thermal compound was as hard as a rock. has to pocket knife blade and sand it down. So for longevity it sucks. I bought a tube of Arctic MX-2, which claims an 8-year durability and decent thermal conductivity. Decent performance and reliability is much better than high performance and unreliable imo."


its liquid metal... isn't supposed to be "hard" when cold?
also, i dont know a lot of metals which feel "wet" when solid...

The only way for these LM tims to "dry out" is that the bismuth (or whatever is in the mix) "evaporates" a bit each heat cycle or gets absorbed by the IHS or HS.

My money is on a bad initial application to start with.
In short, i have trouble believing danwat .... I'll wait till Martin or Skinnee (is he still alive?) or Stren or DarkM come to the same conclusion


----------



## tw33k

I have had CLU on my main PC for over 9 months and temps are as good as ever. In fact when I recently changed my cooler from a H100 to a H320, all I did was run the CLU brush over the IHS to smooth it out a bit and my temps dropped almost 10c which shows there was nothing wrong with the TIM that was on there.


----------



## Kold

Holy ****! Since it's just liquid metal, it stays the same, huh?


----------



## danwat1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> Alright, I appreciate the tips. I will definitely try that method. I read this review from FrozenCPU and it has me worried. Anyone else have it dry up?
> 
> " Works well at first, but dries up over time!
> 06-06-2013
> Reviewer: danwat1234 (1)
> At first on my laptop it worked really well, but, Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra isn''t all that good after a year of hard use of nearly 24/7 at about 85 Celsius. In fact, it completely hardens / dries. On my X9100 after 9 months I started seeing high temps and after 1 year auto shut downs while crunching. Turns out it was shutting off because it hit the 105 C thermal protection. Opened it up; thermal compound was as hard as a rock. has to pocket knife blade and sand it down. So for longevity it sucks. I bought a tube of Arctic MX-2, which claims an 8-year durability and decent thermal conductivity. Decent performance and reliability is much better than high performance and unreliable imo."


Ha! I made that review.
After a month or so after re-applying, the same issue came back but sooner than before. Seemed to happen right after I dusted my laptop out with compressed air maybe 2-4 months ago I haven't done anything about it yet since I've modded my laptop for more airflow and configured it instead of shutting off, to throttle when it hits the 105C limit. It's at that temp all the time @100% utilization, tough little CPU. So far it's only throttling a little so I'll see when/if the thermal compound ever becomes completely useless.

No, there is no lack of airflow since I dusted out. The fan moves plenty of hot air out of the vents so it's nothing obvious.


----------



## SonDa5

CLP is so thin that surface of die and heat sink need flat total surface contact for best results. Any type of bowing is going to hurt performance. Very unforgiving Tim if surfaces are not flat. Works awesome when mounted properly.


----------



## technogiant

Let me start by stating that I'm not a benchmarking guru at all but it strikes me that the methodology of TIM comparison is all wrong.

All the benchmarks seem to quote idle and max loaded temps.... while I can see some value in quoting the idle temps I think its quite possible that the loaded temps are of little or no value when comparing TIM performance.

The problem being at max load it may well be that the cooling solution rather than the TIM is the cooling limiting step or bottleneck which ever you description you prefer.....in which case the choice of TIM would have no relevance to the temperature provided it was able to pass sufficient heat to saturate the cooling solution.

It has frequently struck me that there seems to be little difference in the max loaded temperature when comparing TIM's with as widely varied thermal conductivities as 4 w/m/c to 80 w/m/c.

This could well be a explanation of this.

I believe that to compare TIM's a lesser heat load should be used...say 50%....one that would not saturate the cooling solution and so would be a comparison of the heat transfer to the cooling solution via the TIM rather than testing the cooling solution itself.


----------



## ewokuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> CLP is so thin that surface of die and heat sink need flat total surface contact for best results. Any type of bowing is going to hurt performance. Very unforgiving Tim if surfaces are not flat. Works awesome when mounted properly.


Is this why people dont use it between the IHS and their block/heatsink? I have some ultra coming tomorrow and I plan to de-lid my 4770k as I am getting nasty temps on it even watercooled.

I also have some Gelid extreme but I was planning to use the ultra between die and IHS and between the IHS and the EK block. Perhaps I should stick to the Gelid between those instead as the IHS never seem to be flat from what I have seen.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ewokuk*
> 
> Is this why people dont use it between the IHS and their block/heatsink? I have some ultra coming tomorrow and I plan to de-lid my 4770k as I am getting nasty temps on it even watercooled.
> 
> I also have some Gelid extreme but I was planning to use the ultra between die and IHS and between the IHS and the EK block. Perhaps I should stick to the Gelid between those instead as the IHS never seem to be flat from what I have seen.


I recommend bare die/Naked mount with only CLU or CLP. Much simpler and better chance of getting a good mount.


----------



## Speedster159

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ewokuk*
> 
> Is this why people dont use it between the IHS and their block/heatsink? I have some ultra coming tomorrow and I plan to de-lid my 4770k as I am getting nasty temps on it even watercooled.
> 
> I also have some Gelid extreme but I was planning to use the ultra between die and IHS and between the IHS and the EK block. Perhaps I should stick to the Gelid between those instead as the IHS never seem to be flat from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend bare die/Naked mount with only CLU or CLP. Much simpler and better chance of getting a good mount.
Click to expand...

Don't you need special coolers for that? What if i want to use a 212 Evo?


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Speedster159*
> 
> Don't you need special coolers for that? What if i want to use a 212 Evo?


I recommend bare die mount only with low profile light weight copper block. I don't recoomend AIO water coolers for bare die mount either.

Bare die mount is delicate.

Soft even low hand pressure mount with high quality thin liquid metal TIM like CLP or CLU.

With 212 EVO use the IHS.


----------



## Speedster159

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Speedster159*
> 
> Don't you need special coolers for that? What if i want to use a 212 Evo?
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend bare die mount only with low profile light weight copper block. I don't recoomend AIO water coolers for bare die mount either.
> 
> Bare die mount is delicate.
> 
> Soft even low hand pressure mount with high quality thin liquid metal TIM like CLP or CLU.
> 
> With 212 EVO use the IHS.
Click to expand...

Too complicated and scary for me... i will just go IHS.


----------



## ewokuk

Yeh I would love to use bare die but im not sure if this EK Supremacy is a good thing to mount on it, and from what I have read the temps arent much different on bare die vs with IHS anyway.

Although the EK is held on by spring loaded screws, I could probably just not tighten the screws all the way down


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ewokuk*
> 
> Yeh I would love to use bare die but im not sure if this EK Supremacy is a good thing to mount on it, and from what I have read the temps arent much different on bare die vs with IHS anyway.
> 
> Although the EK is held on by spring loaded screws, I could probably just not tighten the screws all the way down


Get the EK Naked Ivy mounting pack.


----------



## Kold

What about the Corsair H100i? Could I go bare with that?


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *technogiant*
> 
> Let me start by stating that I'm not a benchmarking guru at all but it strikes me that the methodology of TIM comparison is all wrong.
> 
> All the benchmarks seem to quote idle and max loaded temps.... while I can see some value in quoting the idle temps I think its quite possible that the loaded temps are of little or no value when comparing TIM performance.
> 
> The problem being at max load it may well be that the cooling solution rather than the TIM is the cooling limiting step or bottleneck which ever you description you prefer.....in which case the choice of TIM would have no relevance to the temperature provided it was able to pass sufficient heat to saturate the cooling solution.
> 
> It has frequently struck me that there seems to be little difference in the max loaded temperature when comparing TIM's with as widely varied thermal conductivities as 4 w/m/c to 80 w/m/c.
> 
> This could well be a explanation of this.
> 
> I believe that to compare TIM's a lesser heat load should be used...say 50%....one that would not saturate the cooling solution and so would be a comparison of the heat transfer to the cooling solution via the TIM rather than testing the cooling solution itself.


+1

I'll add that to be able to compare at 100% load, the cooling solution must be dimensioned to handle at least double the load.
While it could be said that we'll just use the biggest/largest tower cooler in existense; or a 120.9 MORA/Monsta radiator... that would only be a partial solution.
The problem comes from a heatload on square inch surface, which then needs to be transferred to a bigger surface like the fins of an aircooler (by driect contact or heatpipes) or through a waterblock to water to the fins of a rad.
The HS base or block base is not much larger as the chip or IHS. So, no matter what material the HS/block base is, thermal transfer is limited to 100% of the capacity of the material for that SURFACE AREA.

BTW here's another thing to consider.. while we talk about thermal transfer capacities... we should keep in mind that these are actually ALL thermal BARRIERS.
"Heat" must overcome the material of the die, the material of the tim, the material of the IHS, the TIM (again), the material of the HS/Block base before being transferred to air or water/air (each with their own limtations). Like any chain, the whole thermal transfer is only a strong/good as its weakest link.

PS: Lapping the CPU/IHS & HS/base to within a hair of their life makes the whole process of deciding "which is the best TIM" a LOT easier


----------



## TLM-610

Am curious, I have seen someone review this CLU stuff to harden and become thermally inert and ruining their laptop on Amazon review here

Anyone confirm this?


----------



## Kold

It's supposed to harden up. It bonds the heatsink to the CPU


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> It's supposed to harden up. It bonds the heatsink to the CPU


Is it suppose to loose its thermal transfer quality when it hardens? If so, that's counter-productive.


----------



## Kold

No and I've only seen one person say that. I applied it last night from the stock corsair and dropped 12c.


----------



## Slomo4shO

So where exactly are the results that are referred to in the OP? There is no external link and there is no information in the OP itself. Am I missing something?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> So where exactly are the results that are referred to in the OP? There is no external link and there is no information in the OP itself. Am I missing something?


It's a bug after a forum update. OP has to come back and repair it. You can quote it to see the contents for now.

Like this:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> *Click here for new test results which now include Phobya Liquid Metal*
> 
> I've been unable to find a comparison between these two compounds so I thought I'd compare them myself. I've had it confirmed by the CEO of Coollaboratory that Liquid Ultra is rated at 38.4w/mk and Liquid Pro is rated at 32.6w/mk.
> 
> 
> 
> *System*
> *CPU:* Intel 3770K @ 4.7GHz 1.224v (de-lidded)
> *Mainboard:* ASUS Maximus V Formula
> *Cooler:* Corsair H100 (2x Corsair SP120/2x Scyte Ultra Kaze 3000)
> *Memory:* 2x4GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer @ 2000MHz
> *SSD:* Crucial M4 128GB
> *Graphics:*Sapphire 7950
> *Case:* Corsair 800D
> *Operating System:*Windows 8 Pro x64
> 
> The case is very well cooled. There are a total of 9 case fans all intake. The H100 exhausts out the top.
> 
> I have a temp sensor measuring the room temperature. Attached to it is a sensor which is inside the case, next to the mainboard. There are 4 more temperature sensors attached to the fan controller at various points inside the case. The case temperature was recorded at the start, after 15 minutes, after 30 minutes, after 45 minutes and at the end of the testing. The average was then used.
> 
> I used the latest version of Aida64 running "Stress FPU" for 1 hour. FPU stressing means AIDA64 System Stability Test will use a floating-point calculation task that stresses the FPU part of your processor. Modern processors all have an integrated FPU, and from all the components that are integrated, the FPU is the most complex one. Hence stressing only the FPU actually stresses most of your processor, and usually drives the processor to its maximum temperature. The average core temperature is recorded by Aida64.
> 
> The compound was painted on the die, on both sides of the IHS and on the base of the H100. Each compound was applied, tested then re-applied and tested again. The best results were posted.
> 
> **update* I noticed no difference in temps when I applied the liquid metal to the underside of the IHS and when I didn't. The amount used however can have a dramatic effect on temps. Despite what others may say, I found that applying too much or too little caused a noticeable increase in temps. It's worth applying it multiple times if you believe your temps could/should be better. As you can see from these results using Liquid Ultra, the hottest core was only 53c with an average temp of 49c. I have so far been able to achieve the same results so I'm waiting for more to arrive so I can keep trying.
> 
> 
> 
> *Liquid Ultra*
> 
> 
> *Liquid Pro*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Liquid Ultra has a delta temp of 3.1c lower than Liquid Pro in my system_
> 
> *3770K @ 5GHz 1.416v*
> 
> *Liquid Pro*
> 
> 
> *Liquid Ultra*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This time Liquid Pro was 1.71c cooler than Ultra.
> 
> If we use a +/- 2c margin of error there is nothing separating these two compounds. Liquid Ultra is better to work with. I wouldn't use the cotton tips that are supplied with Liquid Pro because I found more compound stayed on the cotton than on the IHS. Also there is the risk of cotton fibers sticking to the die or IHS which would impact temps. I used the brush that is supplied with Liquid Ultra which makes the application very easy.
> 
> Cleaning is another issue. Liquid Ultra simply wipes off but Liquid Pro often forms tiny balls which when accidentally smeared leaves quite a big mess. I had the stuff all over my fingers by the time I finished wiping it off.
> 
> If you are using one or the other than stick with it. There is nothing to gain by switching.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It's a bug after a forum update.


Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## tw33k

Fixed


----------



## TLM-610

Has anyone used this CLU aggressively in place of stock TIM and over an year... noticed any change in its thermal properties?


----------



## Stige

Damn, I had totaly forgotten I was supposed to receive that free sample of that pressure paper stuff!

Just got an email from them asking if I got the free sample but I got no clue where it might be as I didn't get one atleast









But damn that is some nice customer support, asking if I received my FREE sample from them heh.

Hopefully the next sample actually arrives where I live.


----------



## cloppy007

I received one and the results were pretty disappointing. I only have contact in the edges, and there's a problem with my CPU or my socket, it leans towards the left side...


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> I received one and the results were pretty disappointing. I only have contact in the edges, and there's a problem with my CPU or my socket, it leans towards the left side...


Sounds like a win for the paper. Now you know where to start to fix your contact problem with your mount.


----------



## Kold

CLU is pretty sweet on my 4770K. I have it running at 4.4GHz 1.2v using an H100i. Temps have yet to exceed 65c using Aida and Prime Small. I did have to reapply it. The first time, I applied it to the H100i like the CLU manual said. Temps were exceeding 80c. The second time, I applied it to the cpu and winned. Also, use the hard sponge that came with the CLU to polish up your cooler base. I was able to make my H100i's nearly mirror smooth with about 10 minutes of scrubbing it. Very satisfied with CLU. Also, I barely used any the second time. It took a lot longer to fully spread, but the results are worth it. Hope this helps.


----------



## rationalthinking

Question for you Professional Awesome People:

Could I use Liquid Ultra on my X79 South Bridge?


----------



## Kold

I guess as long as it's not aluminum.

For anyone wondering, this stuff should work great on the Asus DCU 2 780.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I guess as long as it's not aluminum.


Why is that? My south bridge heatsink is no doubt aluminum.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> [quote name="Kold" url="/t/1351984/coollaboratory-liquid-ultra-vs-liquid-pro-vs-phobya-liquid-metal/160_40#post_20803803"]I guess as long as it's not aluminum.


Why is that? My south bridge heatsink is no doubt aluminum.[/QUOTE]
because it will eat the aluminum


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I guess as long as it's not aluminum.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that? My south bridge heatsink is no doubt aluminum.
Click to expand...

Go to Youtube and see what videos there are showing what happens. Search for "gallium aluminum". It's surprising how strong the effect is and seeing it will convince you not to try it.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Sounds like a win for the paper. Now you know where to start to fix your contact problem with your mount.


The problem is that I'm not using liquid metal, just Phobya HeGrease. I tried with 2 waterblocks (supremacy and apogee hd):


Note that one of the images has to be mirrored, it was taking from the waterblock instead of the CPU IIRC.

Now see the contact patch if I use TIM:


It's quite the opposite. It might be useful for people wanting to try CLU/CLP, but it's totally useless for TIM. I mean, it doesn't show how the contact will be between the WB and the IHS, although it tells me bad things about intel quality standards (note: at stock, with the stock heatsink, the CPU throttled: no contact between IHS and HS).


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> The problem is that I'm not using liquid metal, just Phobya HeGrease. I tried with 2 waterblocks (supremacy and apogee hd):
> 
> 
> Note that one of the images has to be mirrored, it was taking from the waterblock instead of the CPU IIRC.
> 
> Now see the contact patch if I use TIM:
> 
> 
> It's quite the opposite. It might be useful for people wanting to try CLU/CLP, but it's totally useless for TIM. I mean, it doesn't show how the contact will be between the WB and the IHS, although it tells me bad things about intel quality standards (note: at stock, with the stock heatsink, the CPU throttled: no contact between IHS and HS).


It shows you the contact pressure between your block/heat sink surface and the top of your IHS or bare die. It's very helpful for any TIM. In order to get a good mount you need nice even contact pressure between 2 surfaces. If the surfaces are off then the contact paper will show it and you can modify the surfaces to make nice and flat and improve upon. Good stuff if you are willing to put in the effort to make a good mount surface.


----------



## Schmuckley

I'll be using GC Extreme


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> I'll be using GC Extreme


Just my personal experience but I find GC Extreme AWFUL.

I reseated my CPU block about 20 times trying different methods with the GC Extreme and never got the temps right.
On one try I got them down to ~75C or so (1.5V here), most other tries they were between 80-90C.

Bought CLP and used it, temps dropped to 63-65C on first try.

Just saying.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Just my personal experience but I find GC Extreme AWFUL.
> 
> I reseated my CPU block about 20 times trying different methods with the GC Extreme and never got the temps right.
> On one try I got them down to ~75C or so (1.5V here), most other tries they were between 80-90C.
> 
> Bought CLP and used it, temps dropped to 63-65C on first try.
> 
> Just saying.


Delidded or not? I've had no problems with GC-E, and it performs better than any other TIM I've used. PK-3 is perhaps a bit better IF there's great contact. I have yet to try Phobya Nanogrease, though.


----------



## tw33k

I also didn't have great results with GC Extreme. Antec Formula 7 and MX-4 beat it by almost 2c. I am going to re-test when I get my test bench board back from RMA tho.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Delidded or not? I've had no problems with GC-E, and it performs better than any other TIM I've used. PK-3 is perhaps a bit better IF there's great contact. I have yet to try Phobya Nanogrease, though.


It was back on my 2500K.

This one is delidded ofcourse.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> It was back on my 2500K.
> 
> This one is delidded ofcourse.


Weird, I don't know what could've gone wrong.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Weird, I don't know what could've gone wrong.


I couldn't figure it out either, I quite literally tried EVERYTHING I could think of, even watched a dozen videos on the matter and still no luck


----------



## tw33k

When my test bench board comes back, I'm going to apply CLP to the die and top of the IHS and leave it. After 3 months, I'll remove it and see what it's like. I've been reading rumors that in time, CLP hardens and "fuses" to the cooler. I want to see for myself. Anyone have any experience in this either way with CLP?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> When my test bench board comes back, I'm going to apply CLP to the die and top of the IHS and leave it. After 3 months, I'll remove it and see what it's like. I've been reading rumors that in time, CLP hardens and "fuses" to the cooler. I want to see for myself. Anyone have any experience in this either way with CLP?


I should take my loop apart anytime soon, hopefully later next/this week, seeing slight temp rises lately and the loop has been untouched for nearly a year now so I should have some results with the CLP as that is what I'm using inside out right now.


----------



## danwat1234

delme


----------



## danwat1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danwat1234*
> 
> Ha! I made that review.
> After a month or so after re-applying, the same issue came back but sooner than before. Seemed to happen right after I dusted my laptop out with compressed air maybe 2-4 months ago I haven't done anything about it yet since I've modded my laptop for more airflow and configured it instead of shutting off, to throttle when it hits the 105C limit. It's at that temp all the time @100% utilization, tough little CPU. So far it's only throttling a little so I'll see when/if the thermal compound ever becomes completely useless.
> 
> No, there is no lack of airflow since I dusted out. The fan moves plenty of hot air out of the vents so it's nothing obvious.


OK, so I'm back to report that throttling has gotten worse and I've made sure that my laptop is dust free. Instead of my X9100 CPU being able to stay at or below 90C at full load at a stock 3.06GHZ, it's hovering around 2600-2700MHZ and also internally sleeping (C0% on throttlestop is usually at 99.5 but often dips down to 60% or less) at 104 Celsius, so it's becoming quite an issue. And this is with doing a mod to further increase airflow and slightly undervolting doesn't help. About ready to repaste again, this time with Arctic MX-2 with the supposed 8 year durability, instead of the existing Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra..


----------



## unclewebb

In your first pic do you see the Chip column in ThrottleStop that shows 37.5? That's a sign of some severe chipset based clock modulation throttling going on which can slow your CPU down to a crawl internally. A low C0% number when fully loaded confirms throttling. That column should always show 100%.

The X9100 is a beast if you can provide it with proper cooling.

http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/screenshot/1990264.png


----------



## cloppy007

A 4.3GHz laptop?? WOW


----------



## danwat1234

Yep it sure is a beast, it is a regular SLB48 retail X9100 CPU (not a special QHBQ engineering sample that has more power efficiency (runs cooler)). When I first put it in my laptop I could keep it at 3.3GHZ with all cores taxed and it might hit 100C but it wouldn't throttle at all and it could do it indefinitely. I could 100% tax 1 of the cores at 3.6GHZ indefinitely while the other core was idle without overheating/throttling. So this CPU is still somewhat competitive with single-core performance in some cases compared to new CPUs

Now instead of nice hot air coming out the exhaust vent, it's just warm, due to the massive throttling from the thermal compound going to crap. Sometime I'll open up my precious energy guzzler and repaste and let you guys know. For now when I want to use it I shut of distributed computing and performance is fine.

4.3GHZ at 1.05V? Umm, no. Stock Voltage is 1.238v. I guess the CPU is idle (internally sleeping), or it's photoshopped. I have seen someone over at notebookreview run an X9100 at 4GHZ and kept it cool by shooting the heatsink with an upside down compressed air can for a while. Was running something like 1.45V or so.

EDIT: I checked the checkboxes in Throttlestop to force clock modulation and chip modulation to 100% all the time, so now it's just the FSB I think that is downclocking. CPU stays at 2500-2600MHZ at full load now. Now no more spurts of super slow performance as it severely throttles for a few seconds many times a minute, where the thermal chip over throttles and brings CPU temperature into the 80s Celsius for seconds at a time. Now I can postpone repasting a bit longer.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> I should take my loop apart anytime soon, hopefully later next/this week, seeing slight temp rises lately and the loop has been untouched for nearly a year now so I should have some results with the CLP as that is what I'm using inside out right now.


Just ordered some CLU as I couldn't find my tube of CLP anywhere.

If I'm lucky, I'll take it apart on Friday or Sunday.

Temps have really shot up so I reckon it is finaly time to do it.


----------



## danwat1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danwat1234*
> 
> Yep it sure is a beast, it is a regular SLB48 retail X9100 CPU (not a special QHBQ engineering sample that has more power efficiency (runs cooler)). When I first put it in my laptop I could keep it at 3.3GHZ with all cores taxed and it might hit 100C but it wouldn't throttle at all and it could do it indefinitely. I could 100% tax 1 of the cores at 3.6GHZ indefinitely while the other core was idle without overheating/throttling. So this CPU is still somewhat competitive with single-core performance in some cases compared to new CPUs
> 
> Now instead of nice hot air coming out the exhaust vent, it's just warm, due to the massive throttling from the thermal compound going to crap. Sometime I'll open up my precious energy guzzler and repaste and let you guys know. For now when I want to use it I shut of distributed computing and performance is fine.
> 
> 4.3GHZ at 1.05V? Umm, no. Stock Voltage is 1.238v. I guess the CPU is idle (internally sleeping), or it's photoshopped. I have seen someone over at notebookreview run an X9100 at 4GHZ and kept it cool by shooting the heatsink with an upside down compressed air can for a while. Was running something like 1.45V or so.
> 
> EDIT: I checked the checkboxes in Throttlestop to force clock modulation and chip modulation to 100% all the time, so now it's just the FSB I think that is downclocking. CPU stays at 2500-2600MHZ at full load now. Now no more spurts of super slow performance as it severely throttles for a few seconds many times a minute, where the thermal chip over throttles and brings CPU temperature into the 80s Celsius for seconds at a time. Now I can postpone repasting a bit longer.


So now it's at 104C at around 2.3GHZ at normal voltage (1.238v) or 2.4GHZ at slightly reduced voltage (1.225V) with both cores fully loaded, time to repaste with Arctic MX-2 with the 8 year durability claims.
--Alright I did it and now I'm at 3.45GHZ at 1.2875V at 75 C with both cores fully loaded and the machine fully heated up, whoo hoo now let's hope it lasts.
Ooo 3.6GHZ at 1.325V, both cores fully loaded 100% with [email protected]
Stay away from Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra if you like longevity!
My only thought is that maybe I applied Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra too thinly both times but it looked about the same as the installation videos for the product.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Just ordered some CLU as I couldn't find my tube of CLP anywhere.
> 
> If I'm lucky, I'll take it apart on Friday or Sunday.
> 
> Temps have really shot up so I reckon it is finaly time to do it.


Didn't have time to wait for my CLU to arrive, took the loop apart and put in some rubbish paste as temporary replacement.

Upload pictures right now, but needless to say, the results weren't pretty from the CLP...

EDIT: Pics were taking with a crappy phone camera...

IHS after taking apart




The IHS was a bit stuck on the core, took a few hits with screw driver to get it off


Inside the CPU block





IHS and CPU Block after cleaning with Acetone, results weren't exactly amazing...





I didn't have any metal polish at hand so I used a utility knife to scrape of the CLP from the IHS/CPU Block the best I could





As clean as I could get them for now..


----------



## Loktar Ogar

Thanks for sharing the pics. I hope my CLU wont be the same as the CLP. I've applied it under the IHS and in between the NH-U12P SE2 cooler.


----------



## tw33k

Hey Stige, try cleaning it off with some metal polish. I use Brasso and it works really well


----------



## SonDa5

Clp and clu come with a scrub pad and it works well with brasso polish but it takes a lot of elbow grease and scrubbing to get off. Also it will dull out a mirror finish on a block. Only bad part about it. Best TIM I have ever used. Clu cools 1-3 degrees better for me than clp from my experience.


----------



## deepor

Just so no one makes a mistake using that scrubbing pad, it is metal and will definitely scratch off the writing on the IHS.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Just so no one makes a mistake using that scrubbing pad, it is metal and will definitely scratch off the writing on the IHS.


I agree with you here, I was suprised to find that all the text was still intact infact under the hardened CLP, I always thought it would disappear with CLP.
So yeah, when I finaly get my tube of CLU I will try some other methods to see if I can get the old CLP off and still preserve the markings on the IHS.

Metal Polish should work mighty fine for the copper block though.


----------



## Stige

Finaly got my CLU, used just what came with it to clean off the CPU Block and IHS while retaining the markings on the IHS incase of future warranty needs.

Temps with the paste that comes with Coolermaster EVO 212:


Temps with CLU:


Temps settle around 18 minute mark for me in Prime so I ran it for 25 minutes for comparison purposes.


----------



## morencyam

Stige, is that with the CLU just on the IHS and heatsink or did you delid and use it on the die as well?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Stige, is that with the CLU just on the IHS and heatsink or did you delid and use it on the die as well?


CLU all around, I delidded the CPU instantly when I got it.

The crappy paste was everywhere aswell, between core/IHS and IHS/block.


----------



## morencyam

Is there anyone using the phobya liquid metal TIM? I know it didn't perform as well as CLU and CLP, but wha are your thoughts on it. I'm just a little curious as to why it' about $10 cheaper than CLU and CLP.


----------



## tw33k

the results here should be enough to explain why it's cheaper than Coollabs. Also, it's not cool to post the same question in multiple threads (it just pisses people off)


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> the results here should be enough to explain why it's cheaper than Coollabs. Also, it's not cool to post the same question in multiple threads (it just pisses people off)


I apologize if I upset anyone. I just figured not everyone checks both threads and I wanted to get as many opinions as I could before pulling the trigger on anything. I do want to thank you for taking the time to do the testing though.


----------



## tw33k

no worries. I haven't come across many people that use Phobya because the Coolabs stuff works much better. Having said that, Phobya definitely performs a lot better than regular paste so if you find it difficult or too expensive to get Coolabs then Phobya is still a great choice


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morencyam*
> 
> Is there anyone using the phobya liquid metal TIM? I know it didn't perform as well as CLU and CLP, but wha are your thoughts on it. I'm just a little curious as to why it' about $10 cheaper than CLU and CLP.


How much is CLU there? CLU/CLP costs 9,90€ in Finland so I doubt Phobya stuff would be 10$ cheaper


----------



## tw33k

at performance pcs, CLP is like $14 and CLU is $15 or so


----------



## morencyam

Well from your testing it sounds like CLU is the easiest to apply and remove and gives the best results. I'll probably just order a tube of that from sidewinder
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> How much is CLU there? CLU/CLP costs 9,90€ in Finland so I doubt Phobya stuff would be 10$ cheaper


I can get CLU from performance pc's for about $15 and phobya is about $5


----------



## tw33k

good idea. have you removed the IHS yet?


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> good idea. have you removed the IHS yet?


Nope. Just got the 4670k a few days ago so I haven't even overclocked yet. Still running completely stock atm. I'll probably run out to microcenter this weekend and pick up a hyper 212 to see what kind of overclocks and temps I get before delidding


----------



## tw33k

smart move.


----------



## wholeeo

Looks like I'll be going with CLU next time I redo my loop. Will also try it on my GPU dies. For whatever reason at the time I had went with CLP for my delid.


----------



## morencyam

I swung by Best Buy yesterday on the way home from work to see what kind of, if any, CPU coolers they had. They had no air coolers but there was a Corsair h55 marked and as an open box Antek Kuhler 920 for $48. Did some quick price comparisons and decided to go with it. At stock speeds temps were maxing out around 38C after 10 runs of IBT. I'm going to play around with the BIOS a little over the weekend and see what I can get out of this chip and cooler then make the delidding decision then pull the trigger on some CLU


----------



## tw33k

38c is pretty good. What's your vcore?


----------



## morencyam

Whatever the stock voltage is. Cpu-z and coretemp both say about .9 which is hard to believe. This is my first board with uefi so I need to learn my way around that and learn asrock's terminology on everything since every mobo manufacturer uses different names for all the settings. I'm going to play around with it this weekend


----------



## tw33k

.9v would be your idle voltage. I was wondering what your load voltage was because you said your temps were only 38c when running IBT which is very low


----------



## morencyam

Yeah, I don't recall seeing the voyage go over 1v even during IBT runs. I'll have to run some more tests today. I'll download hwmonitor too since I heard that's really one of the better programs for monitoring voltage.


----------



## tw33k

having auto voltage usually pumps more than needed so your voltage under load will definitely be higher than 1v


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> having auto voltage usually pumps more than needed so your voltage under load will definitely be higher than 1v


I've been playing around a little bit and I'm getting 4.2ghz with 1.163V with max temp of 71 so far. And the earlier problem with the voltage reading fixed itself when I updated cpu-z


----------



## wholeeo

Is there any danger with putting CLU on GPU dies / copper blocks? Also, will it deface the IHS markings?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Is there any danger with putting CLU on GPU dies / copper blocks? Also, will it deface the IHS markings?


I used CLP on both HD7950 I had without any issues, temp difference wasn't too much from stock TIM but still a few degrees.
Only thing you can't use it with is Aluminum like it says.

CLP is pretty hard to to get off without damaging the markings on the IHS (Mine are still readable after 8 months of CLP) but I think CLU is a lot easier to clean off than CLP is?


----------



## ooostephen

The Toms Hardware article is a good read. They put Pro just a touch above Ultra, though its a little harder to use, both take the top spot on their charts. They can cause corrosion but nickle and copper are safe, but what about the die? Any long term issues with Liquid Metal on dies?

Toms:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,3616-9.html


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ooostephen*
> 
> Any long term issues with Liquid Metal on dies?


The die is silicon and is much more inert than nickel or copper.


----------



## ooostephen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> The die is silicon and is much more inert than nickel or copper.


Had to look up 'inert', but it sounds like it will not react or get corroded by Liquid Metal. This is good as I've had my loop in place for over a year.

INERT - Chemistry Not readily reactive with other elements; forming few or no chemical compounds


----------



## ooostephen

This prompts another question. Is there a shelf life on Liquid Pro. My syringe is >1yr old, and I'm planning on using it soon.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ooostephen*
> 
> This prompts another question. Is there a shelf life on Liquid Pro. My syringe is >1yr old, and I'm planning on using it soon.


I'm not certain of the shelf life, but if it's been kept sealed, it should be fine.

I've used liquid pro that was 2+ years old, and liquid ultra that was 18 months old, with zero issues.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ooostephen*
> 
> The Toms Hardware article is a good read. They put Pro just a touch above Ultra, though its a little harder to use, both take the top spot on their charts. They can cause corrosion but nickle and copper are safe, but what about the die? Any long term issues with Liquid Metal on dies?
> 
> Toms:
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,3616-9.html


What I don't like about the article is that they used that sponge that comes with CLU. That sponge is actually metal wire. It will scratch everything up.

I think I've seen somewhere in the CLU documentation that it's intended to clean off old CLP that hardened. It's apparently not intended for CLU itself and it isn't needed for that.

They shouldn't have touched that sponge and shouldn't have destroyed their CPU's IHS and the surface of their cooler.


----------



## ooostephen

I caught that too, and thought I should check the instructions again. I thought the liquid metal was design to fill nano sized pots, holes, and cracks. Scratching both surfaces seems to defeat the whole purpose of it, and you might as well go with standard TIM.
===================

I just read the instructions and you do not prep the surface with the pad, like they did in the review. That's for cleaning out previous TIMs. I don't know that it makes much of a difference either way as the LM would fill those scratches.

http://www.coollaboratory.com/pdf/manual_liquid_pro_englisch.pdf


----------



## The EX1

Any more info on CLU/CLP hardnening over time causing temps to rise? I am about to delid my 4770k and use CLP on the die.


----------



## MengNa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The EX1*
> 
> Any more info on CLU/CLP hardnening over time causing temps to rise? I am about to delid my 4770k and use CLP on the die.


I've got the same question.
I read conflicting information about whether or not CLU ages on a bare die or not.
Would really like a definitive answer before I order some and delid my cpu...
So which one is the safest to use when delidding?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MengNa*
> 
> I've got the same question.
> I read conflicting information about whether or not CLU ages on a bare die or not.
> Would really like a definitive answer before I order some and delid my cpu...
> So which one is the safest to use when delidding?


I got no clue about CLU hardening but I do THINK that I have read about it that it doesn't seem to have the same hardening issue that CLP does.
But if you wanna play it safe, replace the paste every 4 months? Shouldn't be too much effort and it shouldn't have hardened yet by 4 months.


----------



## klepp0906

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> *Test System*
> Intel 3770K @ 4.8GHz 1.2v
> ASRock OC Formula
> G-Skill Trident X 16GB 2400MHz
> Corsair H100i (low fan speed)
> SanDisk Extreme 120GB SSD
> Corsair AX760i PSU
> 
> Aida64 was run for 1 hour stressing FPU only
> Ambient temperature was recorded at the start, after half an hour and at the finish using a digital thermo sensor
> 
> 
> 
> *Phobya*
> • Easy to spread
> • Easy to clean off
> • Ran test 3 times to confirm results. 3rd test was aborted due to temp hitting high 60s
> 
> *Liquid Pro*
> • Takes some time to spread on HIS
> • Pain to clean off
> • Test was run 2 times to confirm results
> 
> *Liquid Ultra*
> • Very easy to apply
> • Used a tiny amount. I wiped it off the end of the syringe with the brush and onto the die
> • Very easy to clean off
> 
> I know some people are going to dispute the vailidity of these results but I stand by them. During the first Phobya test, I thought I did something wrong so when it finished I immediately removed the chip, cleaned it and reapplied for a second test. I ran a third test to confirm and published the best result. Also, when I saw how much the Ultra beat the Pro by, I re-ran the test with Pro to confirm results.


That's what bugs me so much about TIM! Consistancy is hard to come by for a ton of reasons. Last review I read phobya was cooler by 1c, now u have it warmer by 7-8 lol. *** maybe I'll buy both


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *klepp0906*
> 
> That's what bugs me so much about TIM! Consistancy is hard to come by for a ton of reasons. Last review I read phobya was cooler by 1c, now u have it warmer by 7-8 lol. *** maybe I'll buy both


It proves an important point: liquid TIMs are very close to each other, so close that external variables matter more than the performance itself.


----------



## tw33k

I was very surprised by the results I got with Phobya and ran the tests multiple times trying to get the perfect spread. If you can, grab all of them and test them for yourself; it's the only way you'll know for sure. Bottom line is: you can't go wrong with any of them.


----------



## youtiaodoues

If you can, grab all of them and test them for yourself; it's the only way you'll know for sure. Bottom line is: you can't go wrong with any of them.


----------



## saer

Anyone using this stuff with 2011 CPUs ?


----------



## Gunderman456

Does CLU need a curing period? It sounds like that it hardens a bit with time. Does that come with better temps as well?


----------



## Gunderman456

The CLU over the CPU and GPUs and now under water!



I did some temp testing Post Lap/Delid/CLU and now Post Custom Water Loop - refer to my build log "The Hawaiian Heat Wave" (in sig) for overall results!


----------



## Kold

I just wanted to add my input to the thread. I'd been using CLU, but had to get a new mobo. I decided to try MX4 and surprisingly, my temps dropped by 4-5c with the same ambient room temps. Color me happy.


----------



## morencyam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I just wanted to add my input to the thread. I'd been using CLU, but had to get a new mobo. I decided to try MX4 and surprisingly, my temps dropped by 4-5c with the same ambient room temps. Color me happy.


Dropped 4-5c from before delid or from CLU?


----------



## Kold

From the CLU.


----------



## Scarlet-Tech

Question about Liquid pro... I just ordered some, and will be delidding when it gets here.. I am going over to the delidding forum as well, but I am curious with the Nickel Plated EK block, if I should put the Liquid Pro on the outside between the IHS and waterblock as well? I am seeing in very few places that it supposedly works wonderful with Nickel Plated Copper... Just want to see if anyone has direct input here as well.


----------



## Souperhans

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I just wanted to add my input to the thread. I'd been using CLU, but had to get a new mobo. I decided to try MX4 and surprisingly, my temps dropped by 4-5c with the same ambient room temps. Color me happy.


If it's on a new motherboard there's a risk that either the old or the new temperature was imprecise, or both. Not that I don't want you to stay happy, just saying that there are so many different factors to consider when comparing TIM's and temperatures.


----------



## Klunt Bumskrint

Did I see someone here say using CLU on DCUII 780's is good or bad?


----------



## athlon 64

I wanted to ask you, has anyone tried using liquid ultra or pro on a windforce x3 gtx770? I now use arctick mx2 and she hits 74C in battlefield 4 (overclocked) fans at 70%. I wanted to try and use some of liquid ultra paste. The heatsink is copper so i should be able to use it? The ultra and the pro can't be used on aluminium coolers right? Also do i get the brush for spreading with both of these TIM's?


----------



## trodas

Arctic Cooling have cooper bottoms of their heatshings (where it hit the core and where the heatpipes are inserted). So you should not having any troubles with Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Pro.
The brushes are included with the Ultra (2x) and the application is easier that with Pro.

If an Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo II need 70% fan speeds on GTX 770, then your case need seriously reworked airflow. Usually Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo II drop the temps to like 45 or so under load...

No aluminium in contact with Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Pro is a must, yes.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kold*
> 
> I just wanted to add my input to the thread. I'd been using CLU, but had to get a new mobo. I decided to try MX4 and surprisingly, my temps dropped by 4-5c with the same ambient room temps. Color me happy.


Do you mean on the die or on the heat spreader? There's no way would MX-4 give you better temps than Liquid Ultra


----------



## Krulani

I've been having to use my very old laptop for the last few days while I wait on parts for my desktop, and I kept having heat-related issues while I played Dota 2. I figured it was probably sputtering due to dust buildup inside, so I cracked it open. There actually wasn't very much dust, but I decided to take a look at what the heatsink looked like. 'Lo and behold, the thermal paste was all dried out looking and hard as a rock. I wiped it all off with Q-tips, paper towels, and isopropyl alcohol and decided to use some leftover CLU from my desktop. Worked like a charm. I have zero heat-related issues with my laptop now and things are running WAY better.

It really surprised me how almost useless the heatsinks in my laptop is. 2 copper pipes shared between the CPU, chipset, and GPU! With only 1 fan, and it's some little 60-70mm x 6-10mm radial fan. Yikes.

Still, CLU saves the day once again. I love spreading CLU on stuff; I find it much easier to do correctly than normal pastes. CLU customer for life!


----------



## tw33k

Good job!


----------



## aGriff

Do you guys think I can reuse the CLU that I have already applied when I take my water block off, or will I need to reapply the compound? Just curious because I am running low and it's rather expensive! It would seem if I just re-spread it around it would be fine, but knowing before will help a lot.


----------



## tw33k

If you want to re-use it then make sure you wipe it off the block. Then use the brush to smooth it out over the IHS and as long as none of it is stuck to the IHS it should be good.


----------



## aGriff

Sorry I forgot to mention I am running a Delided 3770k, I assume the same would apply? Just smooth out whats on the die and re-apply CLU to the water block?


----------



## tw33k

You don't need to apply it to the block. If you are putting it on top of the IHS, that is sufficient


----------



## aGriff

I am cooling directly from the die, don't have an IHS, think i will still be ok with just clu on the die? I've always put some on my block, guess I've been doing it wrong haha. Thank you for your help btw.


----------



## tw33k

You won't gain anything by using it on the block. It's just wasting the CLU really


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> You won't gain anything by using it on the block. It's just wasting the CLU really


I'd be worried of the CLU contracting on the die and not covering it 100% any more when you put the block on it and move it around a little. That's why I think painting it onto both the die and the block might be a good idea.


----------



## tw33k

it's not regular paste. it won't come off when securing the block.


----------



## bfedorov11

I researched this stuff before using it but I guess I missed the staining part.. I am doing a cpu upgrade and only had this thing running for about 2 months. There are a few spot that won't come off on the block and die. I am running a ek supremacy block on a naked cpu. The spots look worse on the block.

I don't care about the spots, I am just wondering what this stuff will do long term since its only been 2 months.. And long term on a naked cpu. Is it going to break down the die? Eh.. also using it on my two 780 ti..


----------



## 66racer

I'm wondering as well of long term effects of liquid pro. I was surprised to find it in stock at my local microcenter ($13) so I grabbed the last pack. I have now heard of one case were it kind of bonds to the copper of coolers and messed up the base; the member said it messed up his h100 so Im starting to second guess it. I ended up using it on my 2700k with a 212evo and its now day 2. Once my swiftech h220 gets back from rma I was planning on using it on that but am not too sure now. I actually loved how easily it applied and like the concept of how thin of a coat you need with it.

Considering how uneven the 212evo was I needed to apply it to both the cpu and the cooler side to get normal temps. Since I only have like 4-5 days using the evo (2 with liquid pro now) I dont really have a good baseline to compare with. Really Im just concerned about damaging my h220 when I get it back.

Thanks


----------



## tw33k

I've had Liquid Ultra on my 3770K for over 12 months and temps are as good as ever. I've had no reason to remove it.

I also had Ultra on my test bench for about 8 months with a H100i. I changed CPUs a number of times and while it did stain the water block it had no effect on temps.


----------



## Puck

It will stain, but it will not damage or permanently effect anything unless you ignore all warnings and use with aluminum(big no-no). If it really bothers you then you can buff or wetsand it off and start fresh again if you every remove your block.

It is especially good for extreme cooling users, since it freezes back into a metal at 8c forming a near perfect thermal bond.


----------



## 66racer

haha I used liquid pro on my asus 770 dc ii even though it has aluminum between the copper pipes. I knew it would mess up the aluminum but wanted a real apples vs apples and gpu load gaming seems more consistent that a cpu load. Well temps dropped 3c over antec formula 7, but just 3hrs of it being on there already blackened the aluminum and made it bubble lol. I cleaned it off, reinstalled and did some gaming, temps ok/normal. Next day temps were up 8c so I removed and found out it wasnt done eating the aluminum. Had to clean it off again, a few days later temps are still good as ever. Pretty crazy though.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *66racer*
> 
> haha I used liquid pro on my asus 770 dc ii even though it has aluminum between the copper pipes. I knew it would mess up the aluminum but wanted a real apples vs apples and gpu load gaming seems more consistent that a cpu load. Well temps dropped 3c over antec formula 7, but just 3hrs of it being on there already blackened the aluminum and made it bubble lol. I cleaned it off, reinstalled and did some gaming, temps ok/normal. Next day temps were up 8c so I removed and found out it wasnt done eating the aluminum. Had to clean it off again, a few days later temps are still good as ever. Pretty crazy though.


But you're not using CLP anymore, right?


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> But you're not using CLP anymore, right?


No way I'm back to the antec Tim







its only on my CPU right now.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *66racer*
> 
> No way I'm back to the antec Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its only on my CPU right now.


----------



## bfedorov11

After typing the concerns I questioned myself and if I really wouldn't use it. Even if it was causing a small amount of damage. Hmm the best tim and at least 1 degree cooler.. yeah it went right on 30 seconds after posting


----------



## curly haired boy

so the consensus is that CLU doesn't age/degrade over time?


----------



## tw33k

correct


----------



## expresso

I like to know - i just ordered CLP - to use on my Die 3770k delided -

i read so many different things about what to use on the die and what to use on the IHS - i decided to try CLP on the Die and use AS5 on the IHS where the cooler gets mounted too

its the antec 950

would this work out to drop my temps - ? i have been changing the cooler many times -

is using CLP on die and AS5 on the IHS - is this a good combo to work and lower temps ?

thanks


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *expresso*
> 
> I like to know - i just ordered CLP - to use on my Die 3770k delided -
> 
> i read so many different things about what to use on the die and what to use on the IHS - i decided to try CLP on the Die and use AS5 on the IHS where the cooler gets mounted too
> 
> its the antec 950
> 
> would this work out to drop my temps - ? i have been changing the cooler many times -
> 
> is using CLP on die and AS5 on the IHS - is this a good combo to work and lower temps ?
> 
> thanks


That should work. I tried using CLU on the IHS and regretted it because the markings was faded off and a pain in the ass removing the residue... And the markings was totally removed once cleaned with scrub.


----------



## expresso

thanks - i decided to run my system at 4.5 1.250V temps on full load - is about low 70's hottest core - coolest is about 8 C less sometimes 10C

i can keep the fans on custom quiet compared to full blast this way - cooler liquid about 32C to 34C full load -

i ordered the CLP already -- so i feel i have to give it one last shot and see if i can lower the temps more and get 4.7 stable on low fans etc,

well see i guess - i have AS5 and MX2 and some other one i dont even know the name - laying around - i think AS5 should be good on cooler and CLP on die

i just hope its worth it and i see a drop in temps - worst case - at least not hotter than now


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *expresso*
> 
> thanks - i decided to run my system at 4.5 1.250V temps on full load - is about low 70's hottest core - coolest is about 8 C less sometimes 10C
> 
> i can keep the fans on custom quiet compared to full blast this way - cooler liquid about 32C to 34C full load -
> 
> i ordered the CLP already -- so i feel i have to give it one last shot and see if i can lower the temps more and get 4.7 stable on low fans etc,
> 
> well see i guess - i have AS5 and MX2 and some other one i dont even know the name - laying around - i think AS5 should be good on cooler and CLP on die
> 
> i just hope its worth it and i see a drop in temps - worst case - at least not hotter than now


CLU/CLP is a solid upgrade and really worth it when used between CPU die and IHS. You will only use it once (IMO) and mine has been running for more than 12 months and still not dried out. I can tell because i recently replaced my NH-U12P to NH-U14S and the CLU has not dried out and the only issue i had was to remove the residues and to totally removed it from the CPU's top surface, you'll need to use the scrub that come with the CLU package and it will remove the markings on the CPU. Now, I'm just using a Gelid Extreme thermal paste and the performance is almost the same.


----------



## expresso

Hi - i hope to do it once and avoid having to open the lid again on the CPU - you are not using CPL now and using Gelid instead and you feel its the same performance ?

are you using Gelid on the CPU Die under the IHS - or on the cooler and on top of the IHS - ?

so many pastes etc, - cant make a good decision when its time to buy one -


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *expresso*
> 
> Hi - i hope to do it once and avoid having to open the lid again on the CPU - you are not using CPL now and using Gelid instead and you feel its the same performance ?
> 
> are you using Gelid on the CPU Die under the IHS - or on the cooler and on top of the IHS - ?
> 
> so many pastes etc, - cant make a good decision when its time to buy one -


I'm currently using CLU on CPU die under the IHS and Gelid on the cooler between the top of IHS. The performance is still okay. The important part is the CLU/CLP on the CPU die.


----------



## expresso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> I'm currently using CLU on CPU die under the IHS and Gelid on the cooler between the top of IHS. The performance is still okay. The important part is the CLU/CLP on the CPU die.


Oh ok - got it







i have AS5 already - and will go with that on the cooler on top - and CLP on the die under the IHS -

did you use the line method on the top of the IHS or Dot ?

i seen the instructions on AS5 site and suggests the line for the 3770k chip - i may try that a thin line - but not all the way to the edges - just in the middle right over the die -

what do you think ?


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *expresso*
> 
> Oh ok - got it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have AS5 already - and will go with that on the cooler on top - and CLP on the die under the IHS -
> 
> did you use the line method on the top of the IHS or Dot ?
> 
> i seen the instructions on AS5 site and suggests the line for the 3770k chip - i may try that a thin line - but not all the way to the edges - just in the middle right over the die -
> 
> what do you think ?


Use the suggested method of AS5 but I always use the "Dot" method and it never fails me and you can use the tube many times. lol

For the CLU/CLP - fill up the space of the CPU die and try putting some on the underside of the IHS and try to put the same area as the CPU die.


----------



## expresso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> Use the suggested method of AS5 but I always use the "Dot" method and it never fails me and you can use the tube many times. lol
> 
> For the CLU/CLP - fill up the space of the CPU die and try putting some on the underside of the IHS and try to put the same area as the CPU die.


the only concern i really need to pay attention to when using CLP - i have to not get it on the Green part of my chip ? i am worried when i clamp it down - normally it slides forward a bit as you clamp it down and lock it in place when using the other paste -

i hope it dosnt slide as much and scrape off some of the CLP in the process -- i think i read someone did that and it ran very very hot - had to redo - that would suck - any tips on how to do it correctly the first time -

just use the Qtip to cover the die - thin coat and some under the IHS - is that the best way to apply - or is there some other trick out there


----------



## Petey

Ok just to verify, its ok to delid 3770k or 1155 socket because it uses tim bond to heat spreader, not solder

removing heat spreader on 2011 socket like 4930k is pointless because it uses solder bond to heat spreader

Is ultra or pro ok on the face of all chips (chips or heat spreader) there was something stated about AMD and metal used, didn't know if there were any dissimilar metals to be worried about
(other than aluminum)

Is it better to lap wet sand cpu and cpu cooler for better interface.

Is it better to heat cpu on install like using pime for a while 80 to 90° Celsius then let cool for 1/2 hr. (Any other block seating procedure.)


----------



## Obyboby

Thanks for this comparison - I have purchased a syringue of Liquid Ultra because the PRO version was not available on the store I was buying from, and am now happy to see it might be even better than the pro.


----------



## expresso

ok i wasnt sure if this stuff really would work - but it does !!!! i used the Pro version - and it did drop my temps 30 C on load - i am not at 4.7 1.35V and i have my antec cooler on quiet with the fans -
its running about 1100 rpm i have my case fans half way - a nice quiet case - and under full load using OCCT - i get 71C max

compared to 98 C and 105C before - i used the CLP on the die and AS5 on the cooler - finally i have a fast and quiet computer - i didnt think this would work but it does

i will do this to every new chip i get - why waste time - just buy the chip - delid it and use CLP or Ultra what ever - and install -

idle temps are a little better - but its the load temps - amazing - worth the trouble - and it wasnt that bad to delid it also -


----------



## expresso

i mean i am at 4.7 1.35V


----------



## Obyboby

My temps have never dropped, still staying too high during stress testing and I don't trust who says they're fine, I want them lower, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Will be re-applying the CLU in a few days, will report back with pics of the result so you guys can tell me how it is


----------



## expresso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obyboby*
> 
> My temps have never dropped, still staying too high during stress testing and I don't trust who says they're fine, I want them lower, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Will be re-applying the CLU in a few days, will report back with pics of the result so you guys can tell me how it is


Something is off - first clean it well - apply a little and use a Qtip to cover it nicely - mines was like a mirror finish more or less and i added enough to make contact with the Lid when put back on - but not alot overall -

i then use AS5 on top of the LID and mounted my cooler - bolted it down and that was it -

the moment i turned my system on after i did this - i was at 4.5 and 1.275V - - under load max core temps were low 60's with my cooler fan on quiet and case fans also -

i then went back to where i always was before at 4.7 and 1.35V - under full load - max temps 73C - thats in a very hot room - my apt is very hot - i am in my shorts now with window open - thats how warm it is in my room - my computer sits under my desk in the holder off the floor -

its not the ideal spot for air flow - i was concerned that doing this wont do much because of my warm room and lack of air flow where i keep my computer - but it dosnt even break a sweat -

the cooler i am using is new - coming from a RMA - i got the antec 950 - i had to RMA my 920 pump was going bad -

but before i put the CLP - my temps were not much better then i had before with the 920 - after the CLP - during idle - its not a big difference - but under load - its GREAT - i would do this to every chip i get from now on - why even wait - buy it - delid it and CLP - and install -

that way you only do it once







try it again - i am sure something was off - either the mount - or the cooler is bad ? or you didnt put enough to make contact to the LID maybe -

i am doing some bluray videos convert and my lowest temp is 62C and highest is 68C - load is about 97 % - to 100% back and forth - but no lower than 97% - my room is hot - my window is open but not much air flow going on right now here -


----------



## jdc122

prime95 1hour small fft's, 81c temp at 4.8ghz 1.35v. any good?

CLU under IHS, pk-3 on top and NH-D14 at full speed. im feeling this is a little high.


----------



## expresso

yeah i think your fine - if you got 4.8 stable at those volts thats great - i was unable to keep mines stable at 4.8 - it ran for a while but then crashed OCCT - i left it alone - i dont see the use of trying to get stable if i have to raise the volts over 1.4v - i havnt tried it - but even if i got it stable - its not worth it to me -

but if you got yours going good at those volts - i say thats great and keep it - 81C isnt bad - if thats the max it hits


----------



## Obyboby

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *expresso*
> 
> Something is off - first clean it well - apply a little and use a Qtip to cover it nicely - mines was like a mirror finish more or less and i added enough to make contact with the Lid when put back on - but not alot overall -
> 
> i then use AS5 on top of the LID and mounted my cooler - bolted it down and that was it -
> 
> the moment i turned my system on after i did this - i was at 4.5 and 1.275V - - under load max core temps were low 60's with my cooler fan on quiet and case fans also -
> 
> i then went back to where i always was before at 4.7 and 1.35V - under full load - max temps 73C - thats in a very hot room - my apt is very hot - i am in my shorts now with window open - thats how warm it is in my room - my computer sits under my desk in the holder off the floor -
> 
> its not the ideal spot for air flow - i was concerned that doing this wont do much because of my warm room and lack of air flow where i keep my computer - but it dosnt even break a sweat -
> 
> the cooler i am using is new - coming from a RMA - i got the antec 950 - i had to RMA my 920 pump was going bad -
> 
> but before i put the CLP - my temps were not much better then i had before with the 920 - after the CLP - during idle - its not a big difference - but under load - its GREAT - i would do this to every chip i get from now on - why even wait - buy it - delid it and CLP - and install -
> 
> that way you only do it once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try it again - i am sure something was off - either the mount - or the cooler is bad ? or you didnt put enough to make contact to the LID maybe -
> 
> i am doing some bluray videos convert and my lowest temp is 62C and highest is 68C - load is about 97 % - to 100% back and forth - but no lower than 97% - my room is hot - my window is open but not much air flow going on right now here -


Is there any way I can make sure the CLU makes contact with the IHS inner surface?


----------



## expresso

i dont know - i read that somewhere else where it got hot instead of cooler and someone answered that most likely didnt make good contact or any - i guess first check that your cooler is working correctly - clean everything good - remove it again - clean it up - add it again nicely even

oh what you can try is -- add it and put the top on hold it down for a moment - then take it off and look at it - see if its making contact on both the die and under the cover - then you know - clean it again and re apply same way and install -

then its the cooler - make sure its working and mounted correctly - i used AS 5 - i guess any kind will be fine since its really the CLP that will bring down the temps the most -

hope this works


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obyboby*
> 
> Is there any way I can make sure the CLU makes contact with the IHS inner surface?


The only thing you need to do is carefully and completely remove any rest of the black glue that originally held the IHS in place. The IHS actually naturally touches and rests on the surface of the die, not on the PCB. There's no gap to fill after delidding, the gap is only on the original CPU!

This should be explained somewhere in the first post of the delidding club, so that's where you can go to check. If you want to prove this for yourself, what you can do is test that the IHS can smoothly rotate on top of the CPU without scratching on the PCB. It's smooth like that because it's basically floating on top of that perfectly even glass surface of the die.


----------



## Petey

Is there a install shelf life to this stuff CLU or CL-Pro. I just did a install and the build may take longer than expected for me to do a PC start up. Will compound be ok installed for a period of time, like a month, or will a re-install need to be done.


----------



## tcclaviger

Petey - Yes it will be fine, I shipped my PC via ocean freight when moving to Hawaii and it spent 2 months turned off, inside a crate and there was no effect.

About CLU hardening -

I call bull**** on the guy who "used it in his laptop and it dried out". CLU does not harden, does not dry, does not degrade over time unless you leave it sitting exposed directly to air. If your CLU is hardening in your laptop I have news for you:

YOUR COOLER IS NOT MAKING GOOD CONTACT WITH YOUR CPU.

It is not CLU that is the problem, it is the mount quality, likely due to an over large tolerance between the cooler and the CPU. No shocker that MX-4 or w/e paste you put in performed better, it actually touched both the CPU and Heatsink.

Perfect example of why reviews on retail websites should be taken with a grain of salt, and the 1 star/no star and 5 star/10 rating answeres should generally be ignored unless they are the overwhelming majority of reviews submitted.

CLU 3 years on-

I installed CLU first in early 2012, I demounted/remounted my block probably 10 times in the first month of that build as I was tweaking my loop. I never once added more CLU, just re-spread using the brush each time. The final time after I was done with the loop it stayed mounted for just over two years! I bought a new CPU block after that, and removed the old one. Again I resperead what was on the IHS and used it just fine with awesome temps.

Later I swapped to a full Mono block for my R4BE, making my Supremacy EVO useless. After removing it, it took about 15 seconds to remove with an alchohol wipe... easy as pie, actually easier than paste since it doesn't stick to everything. I tried using CLU with my mono-block, but the gap is too large for liquid metal tim. I found this out after installing it all and seeing very high CPU temps. After I pulled the mono-block guess what... some small dry spots because the block most mostly hovering a fraction of a mm above the TIM, clear by the lack of CLU on the block except in a few spots the size of grains of sand.

Used HeGrease because I needed something that could bridge the tiny gap between the block and the IHS, now 3960X @ 4.8/1.456 vcore, in 27c ambient temps : Prime 95 Small FFTs for 30 minutes - 59c average core temp, CPU Package temp - 51c. I imagine if EK was not full of monkeys and I could actually use CLU, I might be able to hold the monster heating processor to 55c full load and the package under 50c!

I reckon lapping, CLU, proper mount after modding the monoblock standoffs I could get under 50c on the cores, but why, 55c is already low as hell for a 3960x @ 1.45 volts.


----------



## Petey

found something out as well, You don't suppose that guy with the laptop didn't cleaned his processor very well after using Anti-seize, which is aluminum based To prevent bolt threads from corroding together. When I purchased CLU-Ultra picked up some xtream clean,
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13256/thr-106/Indigo_Xtreme_Clean_Non-Conductive_Thermal_Surface_Cleaner_-_30mL_XC-01.html?tl=g8c123s1486
Used alcohol like normal, big wal-mart jug isopropyl, and q-tip to clean cpu, AS5 appears to be completely removed, as normal like I've done over the years.
OK now try xtream clean to see if its just some smoke up the azz snake oil, I spent Like 5-10 minutes still pulling AS5 off the processor, even after using the forever utilized isopropyl alcohol. Couldn't believe it, I actually bought something that wasn't snake oil, it works better than alcohol for real.
Ok point I don't know the chemical makeup of everyone's thermal paste, but if the thermal paste contains aluminum and its cleaned by only alcohol, there is residue remaining, and could cause a problem with CLU or gallium. For instance (NOT FACT) AS5 is 4% aluminum bi product, and effect could be bad if not properly cleaned.
Like the guy with the laptop and the anti-seize, that for sure has aluminum in its biology not good with CLU

The reason I bought the xtream clean was figured cause it removes the indigo xtream sheet, unknown thermal paste deserves a unknown cleaning solvent.


----------



## tcclaviger

I suspect that, poor installation, faulty tube of product (it happens), or mis-manufactured cooler. Years into using CLU, I can tell you after 4 tubes on various GPUs etc, it does not harden if done right. CLP on the other hand....


----------



## Petey

The way I understand it, heat helps to break cpu loose. Don't know if adhesion is created by aluminum residue, from a alcohol clean? Does CLU create a bond with aluminum or just erode it? some die / waterblock fusion of metals.
another question, if you leave old clu-ultra on after removing block, do you get better results if you add more hoping to seal any gap between lid and waterblock. Is there a amount on a processor not to exceed to prevent seeping over cpu.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Petey*
> 
> Does CLU create a bond with aluminum or just erode it?


It's not just sticking to aluminium. It can basically dissolve into the aluminium and will then be inside the metal block, turning it into a very brittle alloy.

Go to Youtube and search for "gallium aluminium". Those videos are too extreme because of the amount used, but still...


----------



## Petey

Wow if you add gallium to sulfuric acid (battery acid) you can fuel your own Hindenburg blimp. Please no smoking, but going green is ok.


----------



## superstition222

Anyone have any feedback about this question?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1553399/protecting-steel-screws-from-gallium

Basically, I'm wondering if it's possible to protect steel screws on the edges from infiltration by gallium.


----------



## Scarlet-Tech

I am heading into Subzero temps soon on a 4790k... having an issue finding the thermal range of liquid pro. Can anyone find it, so I can figure out if I should delid and use this or if SubZero will cause issues.

After 2 hours of searching, I found it: "The manufacturer promises thermal conductivity of 82 W/(m·K). Liquid pro should remain fully functional at operational temperatures between -273°C and +1200°C." Looks like -50c won't hurt this stuff :-D


----------



## paradoxum

I've de-lidded my i7 3770k sucessfully and feel confident doing it again, could anyone tell me if it's possible to do with my Intel Xeon E3-1230 v2 server cpu? I read something about xeons maybe being soldered on or something somewhere??

Also the OP is a few years old - I used Ultra on my i7, what's the current best of the two now? or is it pretty much either or?

thanks


----------



## FastEddieNYC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> Also the OP is a few years old - I used Ultra on my i7, what's the current best of the two now? or is it pretty much either or?
> 
> thanks


I have Pro and Ultra and on a untouched(not lapped) IHS the Ultra works best. If you take the time and lap both sides of the IHS to maximize contact area the Pro is slightly better. As stated previously in this thread the Ultra is more of a paste and fills in better while Pro is liquid so when applied it's very thin so a near perfect contact area is needed for best results.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> I call bull**** on the guy who "used it in his laptop and it dried out". CLU does not harden, does not dry, does not degrade over time unless you leave it sitting exposed directly to air. If your CLU is hardening in your laptop I have news for you:
> 
> YOUR COOLER IS NOT MAKING GOOD CONTACT WITH YOUR CPU.
> 
> It is not CLU that is the problem, it is the mount quality


False information.

It dries, sometimes really fast, and it dries with *perfect* contact. I lapped my 8320E to a mirror finish with 3000 grit paper and lapped my cooler to the same mirror finish. The two fused together and I didn't leave either one "sitting exposed to air" for a lengthy amount of time.

I tried it again with an 8370E and a waterblock and most of it dried within minutes after applying it. I didn't even have enough time to apply it to the block and the chip before it was already dried on the block.

Additionally, the Q tips that came with it left filaments in the TIM.









I guess it works well for delidding but for typical TIM usage it should stay liquid and it doesn't. It is true that the contact quality was high with the lapped gear but when I tried to remove my heatsink the chip was fused to it and pins ended up being bent.


----------



## Stige

Bad batch or something, that doesn't happen with CLU...

Also why would you ever go for a mirror finish? It doesn't do you any good. 400 is best finish.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Bad batch or something, that doesn't happen with CLU...


Not according to multiple reviews on Amazon.

I think the only reason some people aren't having the drying/fusing is because they're using nickle with nickle instead of copper with copper.

Collaboratory should warn people that it will dry out and bond with copper.

As for the "bad batch" thing I don't buy it. There are far too many reports on the Net that say Liquid Pro dries out. The other bad thing about it is that it explodes out of the syringe, shooting 3 feet though the air. It's a bad idea to try to apply it anywhere near one's motherboard.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

I believe that this "drying out" problem is actually the liquid gallium becoming a solid again when it's below 23C...pretty sure it's 23C. If you need an extended period of time applying the cooler use a hairdryer or carefully use a heat gun. That should fix this drying out issue.

I've never used the stuff but knowing the metal used in it, sounds to me like it's the gallium returning to a solid.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I believe that this "drying out" problem is actually the liquid gallium becoming a solid again when it's below 23C...pretty sure it's 23C. If you need an extended period of time applying the cooler use a hairdryer or carefully use a heat gun. That should fix this drying out issue.
> 
> I've never used the stuff but knowing the metal used in it, sounds to me like it's the gallium returning to a solid.


That doesn't make sense since it's liquid in the syringe at temperatures well below 23C. If it were the gallium going back to its solid state at room temperature then why would it be liquid prior to application even in a 17C room?


----------



## Year Zero

I used CLU on my 3770k die-IHS, IHS-H100IGTX, as well as my 980ti hybrid die-block. Overkill for the GPU, but I had a bit extra in the tube and said eh~

I got interrupted on the IHS-waterblock for 20 minutes. I came back and the surface was still brushable and fluid, so it mounted it down and and never looked back. That was 4 months ago. no change in temps, things have remained stable.

I hate to make a "it worked for me" post, but it truly did. If you are so angry at a bad product, make a video and show off what is wrong. Call the maker and show your work, they would benefit from your feedback.

Best of luck dood.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Year Zero*
> 
> I used CLU on my 3770k die-IHS, IHS-H100IGTX, as well as my 980ti hybrid die-block. Overkill for the GPU, but I had a bit extra in the tube and said eh~
> 
> I got interrupted on the IHS-waterblock for 20 minutes. I came back and the surface was still brushable and fluid, so it mounted it down and and never looked back. That was 4 months ago. no change in temps, things have remained stable.
> 
> I hate to make a "it worked for me" post, but it truly did. If you are so angry at a bad product, make a video and show off what is wrong. Call the maker and show your work, they would benefit from your feedback.
> 
> Best of luck dood.


Are any of those surfaces copper or are they all nickle (plus CPU die)?


----------



## fat4l

Anyone ?








http://www.overclock.net/t/1588116/thermal-grizzly-conductonaut-73-w-mk/0_30

http://www.computerbase.de/2015-12/intel-skylake-heatspreader-delid-die-mate-test/2/


----------



## Year Zero

@super, All copper. CPU Die-inside of IHS, outside of IHS-block, and GPU die-block. The IHS was lapped and polished on both the inside and the top to expose bare copper. Both blocks were copper.


----------



## 66racer

Anyone ever have their cooler stick to their cpu using liquid pro? Installed probably a year ago and now I can not separate my swiftech h220 from my 2700k lol

I even ran prime with pump off till it got to 90c and no luck. I didnt wanna damage the socket so gave up but thought I should mention it here.

Edit:
Nevermind guess this is common, should have read the post above.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *66racer*
> 
> Anyone ever have their cooler stick to their cpu using liquid pro? Installed probably a year ago and now I can not separate my swiftech h220 from my 2700k lol
> 
> I even ran prime with pump off till it got to 90c and no luck. I didnt wanna damage the socket so gave up but thought I should mention it here.
> 
> Edit:
> Nevermind guess this is common, should have read the post above.


Many people. There is a lot of denial about it but it's definitely a fact, "bad batch" or not. My 8320E was destroyed because the pins got smashed when I tried to remove a Zalman 140mm air cooler that was extremely tough to remove.

And I had taken the time to lap both to 3000 grit.


----------



## Stige

Why would you lap with 3000 grit lol

Pointless.


----------



## essanbee

Pointless to you maybe, but apparently not to all.


----------



## Stige

It offers zero benefit over 400 or 800 grit, even 800 is overkill if you ask me.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> It offers zero benefit over 400 or 800 grit, even 800 is overkill if you ask me.


Tell that to EK since their block comes with a mirror finish.

As far as I know, higher smoothness is more important for thinner TIM. Liquid Pro is a thin TIM.

The low grit is what takes the most time anyway, since it takes a lot more time to get the heatspreader flat than it does to get a mirror finish.


----------



## Stige

I doubt you would see a difference with Liquid Metal between any of it, I lapped my block and IHS with 800.

Heck, if they use 400 grit on crankshafts, I think it will be plenty for an IHS aswell.


----------



## essanbee

I am sure there are diminishing returns as you go higher and higher in the polishing but some people strive for more, or just like shiny things.


----------



## christoph

Hi guys, one question, well last time I checked the liquid ultra can't be apply on the Die directly right?, If I wanted to change the TIM on my GPU


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *christoph*
> 
> Hi guys, one question, well last time I checked the liquid ultra can't be apply on the Die directly right?, If I wanted to change the TIM on my GPU


People have put it between the CPU DIE and IHS for ages.

Yes, you can do it. Without any issues. I had CLU on my HD7950 back in the day.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *christoph*
> 
> Hi guys, one question, well last time I checked the liquid ultra can't be apply on the Die directly right?, If I wanted to change the TIM on my GPU


You may need to protect the capacitors for more recent chips which are very close to the die. Apparently the liquid metal products don't solidify with nickle so they don't develop the same problems they have when used with copper spreaders and sinks.


----------



## christoph

ok guys, thanks then I will do it


----------



## Cakewalk_S

So my birthday is right around the corner and I've been tossing up the idea of getting an asus zenbook. The new gen one has a Skylake i7 and nvidia gt940 processor in it. Judging by the temps I believe I'd definitely try some CLU on the chips. Anyone run CLU or CLP in a laptop?


----------



## Cakewalk_S

HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!












































This stuff is AMAZING!!!

I thought my H60 needed to be drained and cleaned...Guess not. Just bad thermal paste. I used PK-2. I'll get pictures up later but check it out


----------



## christoph

but why some people say that coollaboratory is not good to use between the Heatsind and the cpu?? that is more to use in a delidded cpu to use directly on the DIE and the IHS of the chip??


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *christoph*
> 
> but why some people say that coollaboratory is not good to use between the Heatsind and the cpu?? that is more to use in a delidded cpu to use directly on the DIE and the IHS of the chip??


Because it dries up when exposed to copper. If you have a lapped CPU and a copper heatsink it can cause them to fuse. I ended up with broken pins on my 8320E trying to get it out.

Even without fusion because you have a nickle heatspreader on the CPU you will still end up with a dried mess on a copper sink.


----------



## christoph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Because it dries up when exposed to copper. If you have a lapped CPU and a copper heatsink it can cause them to fuse. I ended up with broken pins on my 8320E trying to get it out.
> 
> Even without fusion because you have a nickle heatspreader on the CPU you will still end up with a dried mess on a copper sink.


ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ok, now that no one explained before, then is a good tip to have in mind, and I was just about to order some collaboratory paste


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *christoph*
> 
> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> ok, now that no one explained before, then is a good tip to have in mind, and I was just about to order some collaboratory paste


It doesn't seem to fuse to nickle (although I didn't have it on my unlapped CPU for a long time to be certain) so if you have your nickle heatspreader and a nickle-plated sink it may not be an issue.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Because it dries up when exposed to copper. If you have a lapped CPU and a copper heatsink it can cause them to fuse. I ended up with broken pins on my 8320E trying to get it out.
> 
> Even without fusion because you have a nickle heatspreader on the CPU you will still end up with a dried mess on a copper sink.


Sounds like something wrong there, I haven't had that issue ever and my CPU is lapped and block is copper aswell.
They have always come apart with just one finger really.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Sounds like something wrong there, I haven't had that issue ever and my CPU is lapped and block is copper aswell.
> They have always come apart with just one finger really.


Things go wrong for quite a few people.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Either my ambient temps dropped...which could be the case, cold front came through and I had my windows open but the house temp said the same, but my max temp is now another 3-4C lower. I'm now maxing around 56C with my CPU @ 4.5Ghz. I think when I get back from vaca I'll add another 70-80mm fan to the VRM heatsink on my motherboard and go for 4.6GHz since the CPU is so darn cool now...


----------



## ronaldoz

So what do you suggest to put between the CPU and CPU waterblock? I got a Swiftech H240X2 and i7 4790K. I would like to get some Liquid Ultra for the delid, but I'm not sure about the other one.
Is Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut performing as good as Liquid Ultra?

This video is a joke right?


----------



## christoph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> It doesn't seem to fuse to nickle (although I didn't have it on my unlapped CPU for a long time to be certain) so if you have your nickle heatspreader and a nickle-plated sink it may not be an issue.


oh but have my Heatsink lapped, so is pure cooper, I will try then MX4


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Things go wrong for quite a few people.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Sounds like something wrong there, I haven't had that issue ever and my CPU is lapped and block is copper aswell.
> They have always come apart with just one finger really.


Yup, my swiftech h220 after a year wont break free from my 2700k....bummer as I was hoping to reuse the cooler.


----------



## RnRollie

you can always break the bond with a razorblade or very thin chisel and a hammer








You will have to grind/lap the block afterwards of course


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *66racer*
> 
> Yup, my swiftech h220 after a year wont break free from my 2700k....bummer as I was hoping to reuse the cooler.


Well that is one thing aswell, I had my CLP between them for a year before I first swapped it but now I try to change it atleast once every 6 months.
It did still come off but it was hardened pretty well after I first took it apart.


----------



## ronaldoz

Well, I just delid my 4790K. It worked great. I had to test on air, because my watercooler is sent for RMA.


----------



## xenolith

I bit the bullet and tried my luck with CLU, or I should say, lack thereof...

Right off, as soon as I took the top off the syringe, some of the contents started to flow right out without my even touching the plunger. I thought, whoa, way too watery and unmanageable. It certainly didn't bead like it normally should... like I've seen in videos showing other people using this stuff. I knew something was not right.

Then, the pie'ce de re'sistance, I tried to squeeze out more of this Kool-juice .... aaand .... nothing. The remaining material was hard as stone. It would not move. All done? Well, that was fun.

**** throws in trash ****









Apparently I got a syringe that had fallen victim to the metal-gear-solid disease a few others have experienced. It's pretty bad when you shell out $16 for a relatively small syringe of high class TIM and you can't successfully get even one application out of it.

I'm going to try Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut next. I've heard it doesn't suffer from this kind of catastrophic failure.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xenolith*
> 
> I bit the bullet and tried my luck with CLU, or I should say, lack thereof...
> 
> Right off, as soon as I took the top off the syringe, some of the contents started to flow right out without my even touching the plunger. I thought, whoa, way too watery and unmanageable. It certainly didn't bead like it normally should... like I've seen in videos showing other people using this stuff. I knew something was not right.
> 
> Then, the pie'ce de re'sistance, I tried to squeeze out more of this Kool-juice .... aaand .... nothing. The remaining material was hard as stone. It would not move. All done? Well, that was fun.
> 
> **** throws in trash ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently I got a syringe that had fallen victim to the metal-gear-solid disease a few others have experienced. It's pretty bad when you shell out $16 for a relatively small syringe of high class TIM and you can't successfully get even one application out of it.
> 
> I'm going to try Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut next. I've heard it doesn't suffer from this kind of catastrophic failure.


Holy cow... you experienced EXACTLY what I had... Maybe the CLU is just old?
At least you didn't try as hard as me trying to get it out... I stuck a screwdriver in the back of the syringe trying to get it out and pumping the plunger and everything...till this:

The "dried up" CLU exploded everywhere out the syringe. I wasn't hoping for a "slinger" style application like those hydro-mulch machines but guess it did...

Where did you get it from? amazon? Hot-Deals-4-Less? I think that's where mine came from and it was all dried up...ugh. At least I got 1 CPU application and 1 GPU application out of mine...

After this application I'll definitely try some TGC also... unfortunate its like $15...ugh


----------



## xenolith

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> -snip-


I got mine from Amazon.

I suspect this stuff is sensitive to cold temperatures as well. It is after all (almost all) a metal in a liquid state, and just like any liquid, if it gets too cold it will reach a solid state.

I just got my Conductonaut liquid metal from PPCs.com today - and it worked perfectly as intended - and it came in a syringe that seems to have twice as much TIM - and it was $7 cheaper.

Performance-pcs.com sells a gram syringe of Conductonaut for $9, but their shipping can be kind of high. If you wait to make a shopping list and buy it in a single large order and use the "OCN55" 5.5% off discount code it's not so bad.


----------



## cg4200

That sucks man I got my clu from Performance-pcs.and delid my 6700k 3 weeks ago dropped my temps 10-12 c under load hit was 4.8 now 4.9 1.47v max 68c battlefield 4 for hours....Curious how the Conductonaut is?? I use thermal grizzly kryonaut on top of die and like it..


----------



## fat4l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xenolith*
> 
> I got mine from Amazon.
> 
> I suspect this stuff is sensitive to cold temperatures as well. It is after all (almost all) a metal in a liquid state, and just like any liquid, if it gets too cold it will reach a solid state.
> 
> I just got my Conductonaut liquid metal from PPCs.com today - and it worked perfectly as intended - and it came in a syringe that seems to have twice as much TIM - and it was $7 cheaper.
> 
> Performance-pcs.com sells a gram syringe of Conductonaut for $9, but their shipping can be kind of high. If you wait to make a shopping list and buy it in a single large order and use the "OCN55" 5.5% off discount code it's not so bad.


whats the results with grizzly ?


----------



## xenolith

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fat4l*
> 
> whats the results with grizzly ?


Unfortunately, it's Impossible for me to compare, since I had replaced my Corsair H110 with a custom water loop when I replaced the TIM. The only comparison I can make with CLU is that none of the Conductonaut ended up in the trash while all of the CLU ended up there.


----------



## Enterprise24

My temp on i5-6500 @ 4.8Ghz 1.37V decrease by 15C when delid and replace TIM with Liquid Ultra.
Sound like not much. Several people claim 20C+.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

This makes no sense whatsoever a paste like NT-H1 should have like a 2 degree difference with the liquid metals, but this is like 10-20 makes no sense, when I went from CLP to NT-H1 my temps increased by 2 degrees like expected.


----------



## keeepcool

Good evening everybody, I might/will try some CLU in a laptop(i7-4700 soldered and 870m MXM gpu), and I wanted to know/confirm if I can use nail polish to insulate the test points/components that are around the dies.

Best regards.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keeepcool*
> 
> Good evening everybody, I might/will try some CLU in a laptop(i7-4700 soldered and 870m MXM gpu), and I wanted to know/confirm if I can use nail polish to insulate the test points/components that are around the dies.
> 
> Best regards.


You can, with a few caveats. You should test that it is able to withstand the temperatures it's going to be used in. You need to make sure you actually can use a LM in your laptop. Heatsinks need to be either nickel plated or copper, and you should test for proper mounting pressure, as some laptop heatsinks fit rather loosely, by comparison.


----------



## keeepcool

Already on par about the mounting/fit, but even in my old/work laptop with regular thermal paste I took care of that and lapped the heatsink.
The CPU heatink is full cooper, no aluminum, and the gpu one as an aluminium plate that contacts with the VRAM's/VRM's, the GPU itself is a big cooper plate, bigger than the cpu die by at least 10mm per side.
I will lap the heatsinks and test how they fit and if needed mod wither the screws or the threaded plates.

I will try to get some liquid electrical tape, if I cant get it where I live, there is always the last resort of super-glue or some liquid epoxy.

The cpu/gpu wont go over 80ºC with MX-4, after the cooling mods I expect a bit lower than that so I dont' need anything super high temp to be durable.

EDIT:
Found this in a store, URETHAN 71, seems to fit the bill, its a conformal coating with a urethane base, very high resistance/isolation so no shorts coming from this, hardens relativelly fast and as a temperature rating of -40 to +120ºC, costs about 8€ a can of 200mL.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keeepcool*
> 
> Already on par about the mounting/fit, but even in my old/work laptop with regular thermal paste I took care of that and lapped the heatsink.
> The CPU heatink is full cooper, no aluminum, and the gpu one as an aluminium plate that contacts with the VRAM's/VRM's, the GPU itself is a big cooper plate, bigger than the cpu die by at least 10mm per side.
> I will lap the heatsinks and test how they fit and if needed mod wither the screws or the threaded plates.
> 
> I will try to get some liquid electrical tape, if I cant get it where I live, there is always the last resort of super-glue or some liquid epoxy.
> 
> The cpu/gpu wont go over 80ºC with MX-4, after the cooling mods I expect a bit lower than that so I dont' need anything super high temp to be durable.
> 
> EDIT:
> Found this in a store, URETHAN 71, seems to fit the bill, its a conformal coating with a urethane base, very high resistance/isolation so no shorts coming from this, hardens relativelly fast and as a temperature rating of -40 to +120ºC, costs about 8€ a can of 200mL.


So... there's aluminium then?


----------



## keeepcool

Yes, there is aluminium, but its a bit far away from the GPU die, or its risky?
Here is the original cpu heatink, as said, full cooper:


The gpu heatsink that is currently on the laptop:


There is indeed not a lot of space from the gpu die size to the edge of the heatsink.
And this is the one that I ordered, I cant edit a photo for life, but I got a couple images, overlaid them, resized and rotated till the mounting holes where in the same spot and it seems to fit, its for the 880m model and I have already confirmed that they use the same GPU fan, so I think it will fit, and if the problem is with some piece of the alu I will just grind it till it fits, an extra heatpipe and two fatter ones for the core might help a bit to keep it cool.
it also as a bigger cooper contact plate.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keeepcool*
> 
> Yes, there is aluminium, but its a bit far away from the GPU die, or its risky?
> Here is the original cpu heatink, as said, full cooper:
> 
> 
> The gpu heatsink that is currently on the laptop:
> 
> 
> There is indeed not a lot of space from the gpu die size to the edge of the heatsink.
> And this is the one that I ordered, I cant edit a photo for life, but I got a couple images, overlaid them, resized and rotated till the mounting holes where in the same spot and it seems to fit, its for the 880m model and I have already confirmed that they use the same GPU fan, so I think it will fit, and if the problem is with some piece of the alu I will just grind it till it fits, an extra heatpipe and two fatter ones for the core might help a bit to keep it cool.
> it also as a bigger cooper contact plate.


You will have 0 issues with CLU or any liquid metal. If it *really* is a major concern, you could paint some nail polish on the bottom surfaces of the aluminum to protect it from accidental contact of the paste, but you shouldn't need that at all. Just be careful and make sure to wet both surfaces.


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## cktducky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> So my birthday is right around the corner and I've been tossing up the idea of getting an asus zenbook. The new gen one has a Skylake i7 and nvidia gt940 processor in it. Judging by the temps I believe I'd definitely try some CLU on the chips. Anyone run CLU or CLP in a laptop?


Hi all, first time in here, nice to meet you all. That's a great forum to get the information about all overclocking.

My laptop is Fujitsu T904 with i5-4200U CPU. Yes, I did use CLU on my laptop few days ago. That's great, 10*C degree drops. Maximum temp I got is about 64*C degree under full load test with about 30*C degree ambient temperature.

The special thing is on the copper heatsink, there is an area made thinner in order to avoid any bad contact at the larger die(CPU+GPU core) area due to possible different height between the two dies on CPU package. Thus, I want to use much CLU to fill up that area so the smaller die can also have better heat dissipation to the heat sink.

Actually, it is the first time to use CLU. The CLU is something like melted tin but the viscosity of it is much higher. The surface tension of it is also high so it is not easy to change the shape/state of it compared with the liquid. Thus, I filled up that big 'hole' area but it will not drop out when I turned over the heatsink to install on the CPU.

Since it is still in liquid state even though the characteristic I mentioned above, I used double-side tape, the grey colour one in pics, to minimize the leakage situation. This tape is from 3M which is used on Metal mainly. I chose it because it is thinnest as I know and the most important thing is that it can be extended by force to make it thinner and longer. Thus, after the heatsink installed and the CPU is running with heat dissipation in some time, the tape should be tended to restore back its original state theoretically, that is thicker, so the chance of the CLU leakage can be minimized. Details please see the pics.

















Actually, my purpose to do so is due to decrease the temperature in CPU+GPU. Lower temperature not only feel better while using, but also feel more quiet from the CPU fan, the loud sound from the CPU fan over 70*C degree is not really good.

Also, lowering temperature can get better performance due to the TDP Throttle controlled by CPU itself. The CPU is i5-4200U with its TDP 15W control so if the CPU+GPU is getting the power over 15W, it will enable the TDP Throttle control to let its TDP not over 15W. I found that if the CPU core temperature is lower, the CPU will hold longer(over 15W, about 20W in my testing) to enter the TDP Throttle control. Therefore, the overall performance will be better. Thus, this time I do is not directly to overclock the system(since it cannot be overclocked due to maximum ratio is locked), it is under voltage the CPU & GPU core voltage in order to make it lowest temperature to get the best overall performance result by making the later CPU TDP control enable.

I tweaked the CPU by ThrottleStop 8.10 to get the best balanced performance on both CPU and GPU. Now, the CPU is running at voltage about ~0.816v to ~0.686v, it is 0.075v lower than the original voltage. The VID will be changed in dynamic by CPU according to the situation of the CPU at that moment. The silicon running under 0.7v is an challenge so it has to pass the load test before to get the stable machine. If you want to know more about tweaking the ultrabook CPU by ThrottleStop, please ask and I will reply to you.





Details see the pics. Thanks for reading and sorry for my bad English.


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## keeepcool

Good job, very clean, and nice explanation, if you taped with aluminium tape the gap between the heatsink and the fan you might gain an extra degree or two.


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## christoph

good idea that leads to a clean job


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## Kana Chan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Because it dries up when exposed to copper. If you have a lapped CPU and a copper heatsink it can cause them to fuse. I ended up with broken pins on my 8320E trying to get it out.
> 
> Even without fusion because you have a nickle heatspreader on the CPU you will still end up with a dried mess on a copper sink.


Are you talking about CLP fusing?


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## cktducky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keeepcool*
> 
> Good job, very clean, and nice explanation, if you taped with aluminium tape the gap between the heatsink and the fan you might gain an extra degree or two.


Thanks. I will take try next time when I opened the case.


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## cktducky

Sharing more benchmark photo.


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## Cakewalk_S

Great job @cktducky! Great pics and results.

I've got an ancient Dell Inspiron E 1545. After getting it upgraded with windows 10 finally and cleaning things up... I realized with HWmonitor that the CPU is idiling at 70C..lol! I ended up taking the heatsink off which is a SUPER easy task. Ended up using CLU on the Core 2 Duo T6600... worst processor ever but the die is SOOO TINY! Barely used any CLU so figured it was ok. The bios settings are so dumb the fan won't turn on till it hits 70 so its mostly passive until you stress test it... pretty cool!


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## paskowitz

I know through personal experience CLU can bond to straight copper. Does it bond to nickel plated copper as well?


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## Kana Chan

Indigo XS is ~40 w/m-k without gallium
Indium Corp / heat-spring pads are 86 w/m-k


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## Yttrium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enterprise24*
> 
> My temp on i5-6500 @ 4.8Ghz 1.37V decrease by 15C when delid and replace TIM with Liquid Ultra.
> Sound like not much. Several people claim 20C+.


Temparatures can't just be subtracted as higher temparatures dissipate more heat. This is because the difference between the hot object and the coolant (Air in most cases) is greater.

People who claim the 20C drop might have started from 80C while you started from 50.


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## Toque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronaldoz*
> 
> Well, I just delid my 4790K. It worked great. I had to test on air, because my watercooler is sent for RMA.


Hey did you put anything on the transistors to protect the from the liquid metal?


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## tw33k

clear nail polish is what most use


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## nrpeyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I have pressure paper tested my block for proper surface contact against die.
> 
> Direct to die.
> 
> 
> 
> Block to IHS.
> 
> 
> 
> The solid color shows good even contact. You can clearly see that with only the top part of the heat sink there is alot of bad contact going on and that is where you will get alot of inconsistencies when comparing different TIMS. Its that uneven space that the TIM is trying to fill and there is no way to get a good mount with it.
> 
> Don't forget about the bottom side of the die against the IHS which also has to be looked at for proper contact. I never tested the gap in between the bottom of the IHS and the die so I can't show any proof for it like I have with the IHS and DIE but with my photos I hope you understand my point about how important good even contact is.


Just read this post; what was your process (I mean how) do you perform this check? What is that red stuff you're using?

I want to try something similar so I can add *more* paste to the area with less contact.

Also any idea if liquid metal is still better in a situation like this? (as its not usually quite as *thick* as normal pastes?


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## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nrpeyton*
> 
> I want to try something similar so I can add *more* paste to the area with less contact.
> 
> Also any idea if liquid metal is still better in a situation like this? (as its not usually quite as *thick* as normal pastes?


Polymer TIM has a very low thermal conductivity* so it's always worse when thicker unless you're talking about gaps with no contact at all between the sink and the die/spreader. It's worse to have too little non-conductive polymer TIM than too much because the excess will typically be squeezed out the sides of the CPU but thick layers caused by non-flat mating will reduce conductivity.

Liquid metal has much higher thermal conductivity so it will be better with non-flat surfaces, especially since its method of application is to spread it on both the sink and the spreader rather than using a glob in the middle (which, although the best method for polymer TIM can lead to not covering the whole area where the chip is or gaps).

How well the cooling performance will work once the liquid metal has dried out, though... ? It definitely dries out with copper but I don't know about nickle.

*Take a company's claimed thermal conductivity numbers with a massive grain of salt:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wiki*
> The company claims that Arctic Silver 5's thermal conductivity is 8.7 W/(m·K). However, a study led by the US National Renewable Energy Laboratory found that it was only 0.94 W/(m·K).


There doesn't seem to be any way for any polymer TIM to get anywhere near 8.7.


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## haris525

Hi guys

I recently delidded my i7 6700k - I was wondering if I should glue the IHS back to the Die after the CLU application? My plan was to apply the CLU to the Die, and the IHS, and use the motherboard cpu bracket pressure to hold everything in place - I think that should be sufficient ..right? I dont like the whole re glue idea

thanks in advance


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## tw33k

you don't need to glue it back on. Just hold it place when you install it and you'll be good to go


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## kwinz

My question is: is it safe to use liquid metal on a laptop that will sometimes be transported/shipped in Winter?
So the laptop might go down to 0-5 C. I have read that LM is for 10C+ operation only. But what about storage?
Could it become solid and splitter off the CPU potentially causing short circuits on the laptop mainboard later?


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## paskowitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kwinz*
> 
> My question is: is it safe to use liquid metal on a laptop that will sometimes be transported/shipped in Winter?
> So the laptop might go down to 0-5 C. I have read that LM is for 10C+ operation only. But what about storage?
> Could it become solid and splitter off the CPU potentially causing short circuits on the laptop mainboard later?


I wouldn't use LM in a laptop. Just use Thermal Grizzly or something similar. Fat less risk for 90% the performance.


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## kwinz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskowitz*
> 
> I wouldn't use LM in a laptop. Just use Thermal Grizzly or something similar. Fat less risk for 90% the performance.


Thanks! I was just wondering because there is tons of threads and videos with people using LM on laptops.
E.g. watch this: 



They claim more than 10% performance improvement.

I am just hesitant because I live in colder climate and wondering if I can still use it.


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## nicoliani

Which is recommended for delid, the Pro or Ultra version?


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## Batboy

Well considering liquid pro went from 90-100c mx4 to 70-80c id say it;s good stuff man. It's pretty significant and idling a little cooler too. better than thermal grizzly looking like too.


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