# Razer's new Mechanical Keyboard



## .45

Confirmed to be using Cherry MX Blues, rather than the gamer's choice of blacks.









a video of it in use and a bit of a review to it:


YouTube- Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Review!





2 models, an regular (keys are not backlit)(80 USD) and a backlit ultimate model. (130 USD)

*Post from Razer|Ark to clarify misconceptions:*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Razer|Ark* 
Hi all,

I'm Jason and I'm part of the Razer product team for the Razer BlackWidow.

We've been following this and related mechanical keyboard threads on various forums and on behalf of the team, I'd like to thank everyone for your interest in mechanical keyboards and the Razer BlackWidow in particular.

The community is very important to Razer and we'd like to do our best to address your needs and concerns. Over the past few weeks, we've seen a huge number of queries (and some misconceptions) that have been posted on this forum and we're taking this opportunity to clear as much as we can before the first reviews start coming out!

Unfortunately, we won't be able to monitor all the forums as much as we would like to but we're definitely looking forward to hearing your feedback and any other suggestions that you may have for the Razer BlackWidow and our future mechanical keyboard products. I've appended my contact info below as I won't be able to track this on a regular basis (so my apologies in advance for not tracking this thread regularly - I've tried to cover as many of the queries as possible) - feel free to reach out!


> 1.


Why did Razer go mechanical? Because we've always had mech heads in the office as well as gamers calling for them - it took us a while because we went through several re-designs, but we think you'll like what you see. The Razer BlackWidow will be the first line of mech keyboards that we will release.

2.What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all - we use the Cherry Blues - and in our design process, we've got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so it's not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. So&#8230;they're cherry-picked.







I can't go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.

3.OMG/WTH/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same - blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs. So we picked the Blues intentionally from the get go. We went through a design cycle with each of the different switches and our ergo team together with our pool of pro gamers went through extensive validation of the Blues - we came up with 2 real conclusions, 1. It's a question of preference of each user primarily and 2. There's a lot of marketing bullcrap and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.

We finally picked the Blues over the others like the blacks after the testing/validation that we did over the past couple of years- the data was pretty clear to us. The biggest downside to the Blues was the sound - but the other features were huge winners - and the data we collated from hundreds of pro/amateur gamers indicated that the tactile and clicky Blues provided a significant advantage to the gamers as opposed to those that used other switches (though we wouldn't recommend LAN centers to kit up on the Razer BlackWidows, it would drive everyone crazy). A few people here also brought up the release point of the blue switches being higher than the actuation point by a fraction of a millimeter requiring you to release it fully to ensure a re-actuation. This was also one of the issues that we had tested extensively internally with our test robots as well as with our pro-gamers and this was addressed as part of our design. The Blues do provide a better switch mechanism for gaming (although it depends on your preference at the end of the day too). Don't take our word for it, give the Razer BlackWidow a go - you may just realize that you prefer the Blues at the end of the day.

4.Does the Razer BlackWidow have NKRO? We were the first in the world to push the limits of anti-ghosting when we released the Razer Tarantula gaming keyboard some 4 years ago, so we know how important this feature is for many gamers. However, we also balance this against the other features that gamers require. . Razer BlackWidow's up to 6-key rollover gaming optimized key matrix serves a similar purpose for gamers who need anti-ghosting while using an ordinary USB port (as opposed to a PS/2 port). In addition, by using a USB connection the Razer BlackWidow is able to provide gamers advanced customization and performance features that are not available using a PS/2 connection, using Razer's configuration software.

5.What were the key areas of design/engineering that make the Razer BlackWidow a mechanical gaming keyboard? We spent a lot of time on this - balancing some of the cool features that we wanted to put into the product vs making sure that we didn't alienate users with a keytop scheme that would be too difficult to just jump into. The biggest challenge was primarily that from the get go - how to design the Razer BlackWidow to be as simple for the new user to use, to ease him into mech keyboards but also to provide the competitive advantage in game play.

Some of the key design features include our shifting of the F-key row from the traditional position to the right - just above the WASD cluster (F1 is above the W key). There are significant gaming ergo benefits to the same. We also included 5 additional gaming keys and did a significant study into the angle of the keytop to the desk surface ratio to ensure a uniform keystroke experience across all the keys during game play. A couple of other things include on-the-fly macro recording, gaming profiles etc, but our focus was to provide as many subtle changes as possible that may not seem evident at first glance but ultimately indispensable after a few hours of use.

6.Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our ergonomics team has made subtle changes to the placement of the keytop - while most of the placement of the keys have been retained to allow gamers to immediately get used to the key locations, we have shifted the F-key row to the right slightly to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive ergonomics tests have shown that this new alignment will allow faster keypress accuracy for games that require the use of the F-key row. Some slight adjustment will be required.

7.The Razer BlackWidow must be a cheapass, low quality piece of junk because it costs US$79.99 while other mech keyboards cost at least twice that! I insist on paying twice more! Well, due to the feedback, we have decided to increase the price to US$149.99 for the Razer BlackWidow.







(just kidding)

We find it really odd anyone can pass judgment on the quality before even getting their hands on one (just saying)- but the proof is in the pudding - wait for the first couple of reviews that should be out soon or try one out when we release it in the next couple of weeks.

Seriously, there's really no reason for mech keyboards to cost a bomb. It just doesn't make any sense and we didn't see the need to peg an ultra-high price without any reason for it. The Razer BlackWidow was designed by a group of gamers internally (I was one of them) within Razer that championed the mech switches and we believe in propagating this to as many gamers out there without profiting unfairly off them.

Don't take our word for it, wait for the reviews or better yet, try it out yourself. We're big fans of the mechanical keyboard ourselves and we're looking to get it into as many hands as possible - this is our one chance to make mech keyboard ubiquitous for gaming. The more we make, the better our next mechanical keyboard will be. We believe in this and we welcome as much feedback from the community as possible so that we can make a better product.

To get more updates and new reviews as they are posted, you can join our twitter feed at http://twitter.com/cultofrazer. Do join our Facebook fansite too at www.facebook.com/razer

If you represent an established review site and would like to do a review do reach out to me at [email protected]. Kindly include information on your identity and the review website you represent and we'll try to get you a review unit (no promises). We'll try our best to answer every single email but I do have a day job and I'll do what I can to get back to you if I can!


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## lmnop

already been discussing it for a week in the mechanical keyboard guide.


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## Volvo

Is it me or is this keyboard really long?


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## The Master Chief

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
already been discussing it for a week in the mechanical keyboard guide.

some times its hard to look through that giant thread.

I hadn't heard of it yet.

I assume it uses the cherry black switches?


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## .45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
already been discussing it for a week in the mechanical keyboard guide.

yes I know but its been officially reviled now, retail at 79.99


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## Jalal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Master Chief* 
some times its hard to look through that giant thread.

I hadn't heard of it yet.

I assume it uses the cherry black switches?

Razer says the keys are tactile, so no cherry black.


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## .45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Razer says the keys are tactile, so no cherry black.

but has the force of blacks.


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## Phaedrus2129

For $130 it has promise, but we have to wait on some dissections to check out build quality.


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## The Master Chief

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Razer says the keys are tactile, so no cherry black.

hmm tactile...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *.45* 
but has the force of blacks.


ahh! Thats pretty cool.


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## Spade616

ugh, FINALLY, a mech keyboard that "might" be released over here.. we dont even have the SS 7g and g6v2


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## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *.45* 
but has the force of blacks.

Site says 50g, which is the force of Blue switches. Blacks are 60g. Browns/Reds are 45g. Clears are 55g.


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## kyle-reece

http://www2.razerzone.com/blackwidow/

definitely cherry blues

edit thanks to lmnop for this http://www.cravingtech.com/razer-bla...scom-2010.html it seems that its razer own switch


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## ch_123

I seriously doubt they went to the effort of making their own switch. Looks like they used Blue Cherry switches, but had a completely inaccurate diagram of it









Quote:



It's the world's first mechanical keyboard, designed specifically for gaming.


Lolwut?


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## lmnop

maybe. in the demo they used the same art work for "Blackwidow" and "other mechanical keyboard"


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## ch_123

Exactly. The mechanism for Cherry switches is pretty convoluted, and doesn't lend itself for shiny animations


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## lmnop

at the end of the press conference the designer said Razer doesn't leak products because they don't outsource to other companies yet this keyboard was clearly leaked a week before unveiling and designed by iOne.

iOne Scorpius M10BL









Razer


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## ch_123

I like the keyboard has conveniently been in development long before the mainstream demand for mechanical keyboards existed.


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## Jalal

The Ultimate vesion has only unnecessary features, that's good so i do not have to bother. The normal version costs 80€ like the SS 6Gv2 for me. To buy or not to buy...

Anyone knows if it's clicky?


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## Chunkylad

SCREW YOU RAZER!! I just checked their website about 3 weeks ago since I was looking for a mechanical gaming keyboard, Razer had none and I didn't like the look of the steelseries' mechanicals. So I went with the Merc Stealth... Happy with my choice, but I probably would have gotten this instead.


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## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


The Ultimate vesion has only unnecessary features, that's good so i do not have to bother. The normal version costs 80€ like the SS 6Gv2 for me. To buy or not to buy...

Anyone knows if it's clicky?


apparently they are tactile and clicky.


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## Skylit

looks cheaply made from the pictures.. :\\

ahwell, anyone wanna bet we'll see logitech making mechanical keyboards next? lol


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## Cacophony

looks cheap and tacky. no thanks. i'l stick to my das key


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## Jalal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


apparently they are tactile and clicky.


Oh then the question is to wait or not to wait

Maybe the click is different in those razer switches, but they could also feel very bad in comparison to the cherry ones.


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## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunkylad*


SCREW YOU RAZER!! I just checked their website about 3 weeks ago since I was looking for a mechanical gaming keyboard, Razer had none and I didn't like the look of the steelseries' mechanicals. So I went with the Merc Stealth... Happy with my choice, but I probably would have gotten this instead.


The merc stealth isn't mechanical..


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## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cacophony*


looks cheap and tacky. no thanks. i'l stick to my das key


Oh the irony... =P


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## Chunkylad

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


The merc stealth isn't mechanical..


I know, I wanted a mechanical.


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## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunkylad*


I know, I wanted a mechanical.


sorry, I read that way too fast


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## lmnop

the irony is the Razer Blackwidow is probably using the same Polystyrene with Gloss finish the Das Model S uses.


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## Gnomepatrol

still doesnt change my mind i still want a filco board


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## Skylit

Quote:



* Full mechanical keys with 50g actuation force
* 1000Hz Ultrapolling™ / 1ms response time
* Programmable keys with on-the-fly macro recording
* Gaming mode option for deactivation of the Windows key
* 10 customizable software profiles with on-the-fly switching
* 5 additional macro keys
* *Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting*
* Multi-Media controls
* Braided cable
* Approx. size in mm: 475(L) x 171(W) x 30(H)
* Weight: 1.4kg


uh oh, I don't think this thing even has NKRO


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## Jalal

I like how this forum section is full of life, thanks razer : D


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## Fusion Racing

Not sure if want.

If its anything like Razer's other products it'll look great and then break after a few months.


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## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fusion Racing*


Not sure if want.

If its anything like Razer's other products it'll look great and then break after a few months.


the census is it uses Cherry MX Blue switches they are rated for 50,000,000 strokes that is over 20 years and since the Blackwidow weighs 3.3lbs they are probably mounted onto a steel plate. it also has 1 LED underneath each key.


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## Fusion Racing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the census is it uses Cherry MX Blue switches they are rated for 50,000,000 strokes that is over 20 years and since the Blackwidow weighs 3.3lbs they are probably mounted onto a steel plate. it also has 1 LED underneath each key.


If it is actually using decent switches I can see it being good. If they've made their own I'm not sure how it'll go.


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## lmnop

12 hours ago Razer had the Blackwidow Ultimate on their store front, before removing it the actuation point was listed at 1.5mm which would mean they were not Cherry MX switches however the actuation point was revised to 2mm and it fits the profile of Cherry MX Blue switches.


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## zzz

I really hope they're not the Cherry MX blue switches...I have a Das keyboard which uses the blue switches and it's just a little too clicky for me.


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## Marin

If it uses blues I'm gonna be like...


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## AdvanSuper

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fusion Racing* 
Not sure if want.

If its anything like Razer's other products it'll look great and then break after a few months.

This. I'd wonder when it would start to fall apart.


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## Skylit

If they are cherry blues, I guess I can wait for a few best buy sales and probably pick this sucker up for 50 bucks.

My only dislike would be that it has a glossy finish and it's probably one of the reasons I avoided buying a DAS.


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## geoxile

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
If they are cherry blues, I guess I can wait for a few best buy sales and probably pick this sucker up for 50 bucks.

My only dislike would be that it has a glossy finish and it's probably one of the reasons I avoided buying a DAS.

Remove front plate, apply krylon matte finish?


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## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the census is it uses Cherry MX Blue switches they are rated for 50,000,000 strokes that is over 20 years and since the Blackwidow weighs 3.3lbs they are probably mounted onto a steel plate. it also has 1 LED underneath each key.

_Consensus_? =P

Cherry's lifetime ratings are pretty dodgy. Back in the day, their brown and blue switches were rated for 20 million, and the blacks were rated for 50 million. Then suddenly one day they were all 50 million.

I think what happened was that Cherry said something like "MX switches last _up to_ 50 million presses depending on model"


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## lmnop

me spoke english thats unpossible









yes I know they were revised, but I don't know why.


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## gordesky1

Looks like this keyboard will be my next mechanical too my abs m1









I was pretty much waiting for razer too come out with one, Which i knew they would soon a later.

Now the question is too preorder or wait till it hits bestbuys..

How long does it usely take bestbuy too get them after release?


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## ljason8eg

Why were you waiting for Razer? There's already plenty of good mechanical keyboards on the market. I'd at least wait for someone to review it first.


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## ch_123

Yet Another Feckin' Cherry Keyboard

Come on someone, make something different! Even an Alps!


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## gordesky1

Pretty much sense i like razer products well the mouses i have 3 of them and none of them gave me any problems.

razer diamond back plasma still going strong 5years.

Razer mamba had it for 10months no problems.

And razer orochi which is with me everyday on the go for the pass 5 months with no problems.

I cant say about their other products sense i ony bought their mouses.

And sense its a razer product it should be in bestbuy so i could test it my self, and i like going too get it that day it gets at bestbuy lol, But that depends sense i was thinking of preordering it.

I was looking at the xarmor and the deck ones, Ya i like backlit but ony for the looks sense i don't look at the keys







And when im buying a product i usely like too get as many features as i can get on a product, Mainly for a keyboard or a mouse sense i would be using it for years if its good.

Which i have been holding off mainly for the price tags which im sure they are worth it, But not even sure if i would like the switches they use, Well mainly the deck. The blue ones on the xarmor im sure i will like even tho im a gamer, But theres gamer out there that uses blues and like them.

But ya if razer did a good job on this board 129$ is a steal..

So ya maybe i will wait till reviews get it, Or when my local bestbuy gets it. Even tho razer does have 30-day money back guarantee.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
Pretty much sense i like razer products well the mouses i have 3 of them and none of them gave me any problems.

razer diamond back plasma still going strong 5years.

Razer mamba had it for 10months no problems.

And razer orochi which is with me everyday on the go for the pass 5 months with no problems.

I cant say about their other products sense i ony bought their mouses.

And sense its a razer product it should be in bestbuy so i could test it my self, and i like going too get it that day it gets at bestbuy lol, But that depends sense i was thinking of preordering it.

I was looking at the xarmor and the deck ones, Ya i like backlit but ony for the looks sense i don't look at the keys







And when im buying a product i usely like too get as many features as i can get on a product, Mainly for a keyboard or a mouse sense i would be using it for years if its good.

Which i have been holding off mainly for the price tags which im sure they are worth it, But not even sure if i would like the switches they use, Well mainly the deck. The blue ones on the xarmor im sure i will like even tho im a gamer, But theres gamer out there that uses blues and like them.

*But ya if razer did a good job on this board 129$ is a steal..*

So ya maybe i will wait till reviews get it, Or when my local bestbuy gets it. Even tho razer does have 30-day money back guarantee.


I didn't know usb and audio outs are worth an additional $50.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
I didn't know usb and audio outs were worth $50.


I really don't care about those much









But the usb is a nice feature too have on a keyboard well too me, But what i meant that its a steal if its good is because it has the same lighting system Individually Backlit Keys which the deck has not sure the same brightness tho, And it seems too be feature packed for just 129$ which could be a bad thing but we wont know till it comes out and get reviewed.

But by the 50$ you meant i assumed you mean vs the normal version 79$ vs 129$? If so the 79$ one doesn't have backlit keys well from the pics and specs it doesn't list it.

So i say thats worth 50$ right there







Sense it has Individually Backlit Keys which is why the deck is up in price causes that costs alot for each key with a led under it.


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## pyromancer

Why do you guys keep saying $130?

The only version you need is the $80 version.

Go to the bottom of the features page on the website (http://www2.razerzone.com/blackwidow/)

All you are missing is Audio/USB ports and some LEDs... Seems like a steal for 80 bucks, will probably pick one of these up for myself.


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## gordesky1

Ya we know that pyromancer but some of us like those feature, Which i don't mind the extra usb. I could care less about the audio ports tho sense thats useless too me, And having the individually backit keys is nice.

Either way both prices are really good, Thats ony if the keyboard is good itself.


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## Cryptedvick

MAN its ugly!
typewriter-like keyboard ... not for me. especially with that price


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## geoxile

It's in Euros not USD
Also, it says "register interest" on your site. It may not even come to the U.S.


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## Mas

Depends on where you are I think. I see it in USD


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## gordesky1

Ya shows usd for me too


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## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cryptedvick* 
MAN its ugly!
typewriter-like keyboard ... not for me. especially with that price









Price isn't high at all.


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## Evil-Jester

i think i will stick to getting a deck keyboard, price may be more but its moder friendly and its known to be a good mech board with led's and i dont like glossy keyboards. lol other then that it looks promising, cant wait to hear reviews on it


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## supra_rz

I will stick with my lycosa


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## flipd

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
uh oh, I don't think this thing even has NKRO

There are games I play that rely on the NKRO heavily (fighting games like Street Fighter IV). I previously owned a Lycosa and those games played like crap. I'm not willing to invest on a mechanical keyboard that will play those games the same way. Knowing that the BlackWidow runs on USB and the specs page indicates that it has "optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting," this new keyboard might not even compare to most of our already existing keyboards. But only time will show how it compares to everything else, yes?

It's kinda bittersweet that this keyboard was announced after my new Filco arrived. It would have looked nice with my DeathAdder. But knowing that I bought my Filco for the NKRO and the fact that it's an enthusiast's keyboard, I feel much better.


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## ch_123

If it has an optimized cluster, you can take it as given that it doesn't have NKRO. After all, if it had NKRO, it wouldn't need to be optimized!


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## mcbrite

I won't buy another Razer product for a VERY long time and I used to be their biggest fan for going on 10 years...

Horrible customer service, horrible build quality... Not REALLY built by gamers for gamers anymore...

Built for profit and selling new stuff every couple of months, never mind if it's WORSE then the last version...


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## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flipd*


There are games I play that rely on the NKRO heavily (fighting games like Street Fighter IV). I previously owned a Lycosa and those games played like crap. I'm not willing to invest on a mechanical keyboard that will play those games the same way. Knowing that the BlackWidow runs on USB and the specs page indicates that it has "optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting," this new keyboard might not even compare to most of our already existing keyboards. But only time will show how it compares to everything else, yes?

It's kinda bittersweet that this keyboard was announced after my new Filco arrived. It would have looked nice with my DeathAdder. But knowing that I bought my Filco for the NKRO and the fact that it's an enthusiast's keyboard, I feel much better.


You play SF4 on a KB?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


You play SF4 on a KB?


That's what I'm saying!


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## corry29

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


I won't buy another Razer product for a VERY long time and I used to be their biggest fan for going on 10 years...

Horrible customer service, horrible build quality... Not REALLY built by gamers for gamers anymore...

*Built for profit and selling new stuff every couple of months, never mind if it's WORSE then the last version...*


The truth.


----------



## nlewandowski93

Oh boy . . . Razer + mechanical . . . this ought to be expensive.


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## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nlewandowski93*


Oh boy . . . Razer + mechanical . . . this ought to be expensive.


$130 or so, I doubt it's as nice as a Deck Legend, plus the Deck can come in Blue, brown, or black switches.


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## xximanoobxx

wonder what switches these have...


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## Mas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


$130 or so, I doubt it's as nice as a Deck Legend, plus the Deck can come in Blue, brown, or black switches.


I thought the Decks only came in brown and black (or clear and black, don't remember exactly, but not blue)


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


I thought the Decks only came in brown and black


Decks come with the choices of Blacks (linear) or Clears (tactile).


----------



## Mas

So no Decks for me then. Looks like it's going to be a Filco, or xarmor most likely.


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## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


$130 or so, I doubt it's as nice as a Deck Legend, plus the Deck can come in Blue, brown, or black switches.


Cherry MX Black Linear, Cherry MX Clear and I think the spacebar is Cherry MX Green or Cherry MX Grey.


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## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry MX Black Linear, Cherry MX Clear and I think the spacebar is Cherry MX Green or Cherry MX Grey.


I'm probably going to go with Blue s my first time, and was hoping to get a deck. . .

Still It has Black which are _supposed _to be best for gaming. I have a feeling it's more personal preference.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I'm probably going to go with Blue s my first time, and was hoping to get a deck. . .

Still It has Black which are _supposed _to be best for gaming. I have a feeling it's more personal preference.


Cherry MX Black Linear are high force, smooth and quiet.


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## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry MX Black Linear are high force, smooth and quiet.


unless your a heavy typer, they still make some noise when they bottom out, which is obvious but yea. My girlfriend hates the way they feel, but blacks are superior for me in fps.


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## Phaedrus2129

I just sent their marketing department an email asking for a sample, so we'll see if they're willing to have their product reviewed by someone (nominally) competent.


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## lmnop

Razer gives out samples?


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## mcbrite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
I'm probably going to go with Blue s my first time, and was hoping to get a deck. . .

Still It has Black which are _supposed_ to be best for gaming. I have a feeling it's more personal preference.

Cherry Reds are even better for gaming... Same as blacks, but lighter actuation force, I think 10g less... I own one, bought via Hong Kong... Impossible to find in Americas or Europe...


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## lmnop

there is a seller on eBay who will ship a Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-0 worldwide from Hong Kong for $172. he has 10+ available.


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## mcbrite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there is a seller on eBay who will ship a Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-0 worldwide from Hong Kong for $172. he has 10+ available.

It's where I bought mine... Typing on it now...


----------



## British

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Yet Another Feckin' Cherry Keyboard

Come on someone, make something different! Even an Alps!

Never !
The more Cherry the merrier... well, MX that is


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *British*


Never !
The more Cherry the merrier... well, MX that is


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## mcbrite

By now I have 3 Cherries with black switches (they cost me 2,50 EURO a PIECE... DIRT cheap), 1 Cherry with reds (extra rare) and one cherry with blues on the way...

Spiraling into addiction...


----------



## Evil-Jester

were did you get them for 2,50 eruo???? also i want the reds


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil-Jester*


were did you get them for 2,50 eruo???? also i want the reds










Reds are VERY expensive, see eBay... G80 3494LYCUS is the model number... (172 Dollars)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...ice_Trackballs

The G80 1851 LPMDE with blacks I bought on German eBay with german layout... Bought 3 of them for like 12 Euro with postage included... You can't get a good mechanical keyboard ANY cheaper than that... GREAT for gaming if you can't/don't want to afford red's...


----------



## jadawgis732

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


Ya we know that pyromancer but some of us like those feature, Which i don't mind the extra usb. I could care less about the audio ports tho sense thats useless too me, And having the individually backit keys is nice.

Either way both prices are really good, Thats ony if the keyboard is good itself.


I've read 3 posts in the space of one page by you where you write "too" but mean "to" and you write "sense" and mean "since." Please stop, it's hurting my brain. I'm assuming you're American too since most Best Buys are in the US I would imagine, though this shouldn't come as much of a surprise since most teens think Michaelangelo is a computer virus. Still, you would think you'd know how to spell.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


Ya shows usd for me too










That confirms it, also good job on picking the right word.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


Reds are VERY expensive, see eBay... G80 3494LYCUS is the model number... (172 Dollars)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...ice_Trackballs

The G80 1851 LPMDE with blacks I bought on German eBay with german layout... Bought 3 of them for like 12 Euro with postage included... You can't get a good mechanical keyboard ANY cheaper than that... GREAT for gaming if you can't/don't want to afford red's...


Why does the title say linear white but the picture show red switches?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Why does the title say linear white but the picture show red switches?


Cherry MX Red switches are *Linear*.

*White* indicates it's the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-0


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry MX Red switches are *Linear*.

*White* indicates it's the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-0











So the keyboard is white and the switches are red?


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


So the keyboard is white and the switches are red?


Not necessarily... Write him... They are Chinese, so the description will only ever get "that" close...

Just ask him what color the keyboard is, the switches ARE red...

My keyboard was black, but I can't remember if it was that exact listing, it WAS that seller though...


----------



## Tatakai All

^^^ Thanks.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


So the keyboard is white and the switches are red?


yes. we have already e-mailed the seller he is using pictures that are not his.


----------



## lmnop

G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White)
Polystyrol Casing
PBT Keycaps
Laser Etched Keycaps
Full Rollover
Cherry Logo Laser Etched
Blue LED










































G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)
ABS Casing
POM Keycaps
Laser Etched Keycaps
Full Rollover
Cherry Logo Laser Etched
Blue LED


----------



## ManjyomeThunder

The switches in the Razer BlackWidow are now confirmed to be Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ManjyomeThunder* 
The switches in the Razer BlackWidow are now confirmed to be Cherry MX Blues.

Thanks.


----------



## gordesky1

Just preorded the Ultimate









Now the wait game...

Hopefully i will like the cherry blues. But i should like them sense i love the sound of them from videos.

I do like the abs m1 ***as alps alot tho even when i first herd them before i got the m1, So i better like the blues over them lol.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ManjyomeThunder* 
The switches in the Razer BlackWidow are now confirmed to be Cherry MX Blues.

Mounted upside-down... =P


----------



## BigT

hi i am a newb when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I have used them several times and alwasy loved them. i am looking to buy this Razer BlackWidow Ultimate, but i have a few questions. i see it is confirmed to be Cherry MX Blues. From what i gather these ones are tactile, and proved a click. i was woundering what the differences behind all the different cherry switches are, such as tactile or linear, and the force required. i was hopeing for a keyboard with very low force required, that "clicks" and has a very small travel distance.


----------



## ch_123

Browns - low force (45g), low tactility, low noise.
Blues - slightly stiffer (50g), pronounced tactility, clicky.
Black - stiff (60g), linear, low noise.


----------



## BigT

Ok it looks like I want blue. And it looks like this new razer keyboard is blue.
I like the glossy finish, and the backlight, and the razer symbol, and the Fn key for multimedia. And I like how when the lights are off it looks like white letters. i think this is they keyboard for me. I am so excite for it to be released!!!! What are the specs for the red cherrys?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
Ok it looks like I want blue. And it looks like this new razer keyboard is blue.
I like the glossy finish, and the backlight, and the razer symbol, and the Fn key for multimedia. And I like how when the lights are off it looks like white letters. i think this is they keyboard for me. I am so excite for it to be released!!!! What are the specs for the red cherrys?

Cherry MX Red are low force like Cherry MX Brown (45g) but Linear like Cherry MX Black.


----------



## BigT

that sucks, i guess the blues are definitely the ones for me! it says it will ship on 09/21/10 on razers site. im stoked! there is a video review of it on youtube.








YouTube- Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Review!
not a bad review gives us a sneak peak.


----------



## lmnop

Cherry MX Red Linear switches are popular in Asia where they are sold. Cherry MX Black Linear are great for gaming because they are smooth but some people find the force is too high for typing. Cherry MX Red Linear solve that problem.

thanks for the video but it's been posted already.


----------



## BigT

doh, i read through this forum and i guessed i missed it. oh well. i love the click tho. i remember in highschool we had all mechanical keyboards in the library. I think they were keytronic. they were great and i loved the click sound. so classic.


----------



## sparkymarko

looks sweet and i need a new keyboard


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


doh, i read through this forum and i guessed i missed it. oh well. i love the click tho. i remember in highschool we had all mechanical keyboards in the library. I think they were keytronic. they were great and i loved the click sound. so classic.


oh it was probably posted in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. there was a video of the Razer Blackwidow leaked a couple days before it was unveiled at Gamescom on the 18th so we have been discussing it for a while.


----------



## Skylit

If razer dosen't eff up the matrix, this keyboard will be very decent for the money.


----------



## BigT

very nice, i cant wait to see an actual review with nice close up hi-res photos. or better yet i cant wait to own it i am going to buy it asap. i love razer products. my old copperhead is still goign strong! i am using a lycosa right now.


----------



## lmnop

they improved the matrix from the Lycosa.


----------



## BigT

cool, and what do you mean by matrix? sorry for the noob questions, again i am new to the keyboard enthusiast scene so i am not up on the terminology.


----------



## lmnop

I am not even going to try and explain it because I barely comprehend it.

Quote:



Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.

Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.

A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.


I took this from the Razer Keyboard Guide this morning. the Razer Blackwidow uses a "optimized matrix" and judging by what they wrote it seems like a improvement over the "selective anti-ghosting" the Lycosa used but I have no idea how.









if you want to learn about keyboard matrix see here.

http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/


----------



## BigT

thanks for the info


----------



## Tatakai All

For anyone pre-ordering the Black Widow I've got a $5 coupon from Razer and yes I know it's only for $5. Don't know how much longer it's gonna last though.

$5 Code - fiv3offr4z3r7


----------



## flipd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


You play SF4 on a KB?


Late response. Believe it or not, indeed I do, along with other fighting games on an emulator. I used to play Marvel vs Capcom a lot over Kaillera using a keyboard and I was actually pretty good at it, until I got the Lycosa which had so many "ghosting" problems. Not all people are great with controllers. I'm one of the people who play those fighting games MUCH better on arcade joypads than console controllers.

I'm not expecting any relief from the new keybaord with these fighting games.


----------



## BigT

i guess it depends on what you play. i have had no problem with my lycosa playing any fps, but i never have more 5 button pressed down at any time because i only have 5 fingers on my hand. so i guess the lycosa is really good with fps. but this blackwidow will be much better, i am really looking forward to mechanical keys. but from what i understand there is no such thing as NKRO on a usb keyboard.

as i have read about the filco:

"N-key Rollover allows multiple simultaneous key presses to be recognized by your computer. True N-key Rollover works only with the included PS/2 adapter. Using the USB connection will limit the N-key Rollover function to 6 keys, plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Pgup, etc.), at a time."

i dont know if this is a usb limitation or what, but hopefully razer can make a keyboard with even better specs. so far the blackwidow looks amazing and i will be buying one as soon as i can. as others have stated it will be an improved matrix over the lycosa and other razer boards. another term for NKRO seems to be antighosting. they apear to mean the same thing really. one just sounds mroe cool and is easier to market. and the blackwidow is labeled as "•Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting". my guess is that they did the best they could with usb. i have been reading to see if full NKRO or full anti ghosting is possible on usb.....

The razer taranchula was "Anti-ghosting capability for up to 10 keys" and that was a very good keyboard. if i do the math that is the same as the filco... too bad it didnt have full backlight...

I think there is a hardware limitation because of the way a usb deviced comunicates through polling.


----------



## Mas

The biggest plus, in my opinion, is it will be an easy to get, cheap(er) alternative mechanical keyboard with cherry blue switches for those of us in places like Australia, where you have to pay an arm and a leg to get one normally.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
The biggest plus, in my opinion, is it will be an easy to get, cheap(er) alternative mechanical keyboard with cherry blue switches for those of us in places like Australia, where you have to pay an arm and a leg to get one normally.

I know what you mean. Shoot I live in the US but apparently Hawaii gets shunned by almost everyone who states "shipping free in US". It's always in the fine print that I get shot then strapped down with outrageous shipping costs.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
The biggest plus, in my opinion, is it will be an easy to get, cheap(er) alternative mechanical keyboard with cherry blue switches for those of us in places like Australia, where you have to pay an arm and a leg to get one normally.

not just that but it is one SEXY keyboard that looks so simple. it is not over done. and i like how the media keys are on the "F" keys and require you to hit the Fn key. it keeps the keyboard looking very clean. and not to sound shallow but looks are almost everything. lets be honest. and if this keyboard has a metal plate inside to help take the punishment us gamers can dish out this will be the best frakin mechanical keyboard. and it is so bright! i love everythign having a blue glow, just check out my sniper case in my sig.


----------



## Mas

It doesn't. Have the plate that is.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
It doesn't. Have the plate that is.

really?!?!? it is like 1.5kg! where did that weight come from?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flipd* 
Late response. Believe it or not, indeed I do, along with other fighting games on an emulator. I used to play Marvel vs Capcom a lot over Kaillera using a keyboard and I was actually pretty good at it, until I got the Lycosa which had so many "ghosting" problems. Not all people are great with controllers. I'm one of the people who play those fighting games MUCH better on arcade joypads than console controllers.

I'm not expecting any relief from the new keybaord with these fighting games.

I can't play fighting games on controllers either. I use arcade sticks ( currently the madcatz TE which is the most popular, also used a hori RAP though ). I can't imagine playing on a KB though, seems even more difficult than on a pad.


----------



## .45

very promising till i heard blues. very sad choice for a strictly gaming company to use blues over blacks. thats just my two .02, I'll be sticking to my Steelseries 7G and maybe get this during winter or next spring.


----------



## BigT

the reson i want it is for the cherry blues. i have used the 7g before and i dont like it at all. its so wierd. the palm rest was nice, but the keys were just strange. i have gamed on an old clicky keyboard before and it was dabomb! my one friend back in the day had the exact same leyboard as the ones we had at school. i think he may have "borowed" it from the school...... it was like the old IBM model M, i cant remember if it was one of the rebranded ones tho. anyway we use to play counterstrike on that keyboard for soooo many hours, it had such a nice feel to it.


----------



## mcbrite

A normal Cherry keyboard with blues costs 50 Euro over here...

So if you wanna justify buying the razer to yourself that's fine, but don't make out like your doing it to save money...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcbrite* 
A normal Cherry keyboard with blues costs 50 Euro over here...

So if you wanna justify buying the razer to yourself that's fine, but don't make out like your doing it to save money...









Where please?


----------



## BigT

i dont know where to buy a cherry in canada with blues... they are on ebay but will cost me nearly 200 canadian. so the razer will be cheeper. if there was a blue cherry in canada for 50 i would pick it up... or even on new egg..


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I think Das is available in Canada.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


i dont know where to buy a cherry in canada with blues... they are on ebay but will cost me nearly 200 canadian. so the razer will be cheeper. if there was a blue cherry in canada for 50 i would pick it up... or even on new egg..


Das Model S is available in Canada at DirectCanada and BestDirect. it's actually cheaper in Canada than US. Das Model S Ultimate (Cherry MX Blue switches, Blank Keycaps) $105 CAD.


----------



## BigT

i have looked and so far i ahve not been abel to find one. I want one that is backlit as well. i think the razer is probably my best bet. and its really sexy.


----------



## lmnop

Razer Blackwidow Ultimate should be available across Canada next month.


----------



## BigT

YAAAAA! and i love the name of your computer BTW. Starbuck, thats awsome! Battlestar lives on! i actually just finished watching the entire series last night, the new one that is. i am sad it is over.


----------



## lmnop

thanks. I named it after Starbuck because we are both blonde, crazy, insubordinate, smokers and showoffs.


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Where please?


Germany... I know because mine arrived only 3 days ago... Ordered via Amazon...54 Euro with shipping inc.


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


thanks. I named it after Starbuck because we are both blonde, crazy, insubordinate, smokers and showoffs.


Awsome! you would make a good friend.


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


Germany... I know because mine arrived only 3 days ago... Ordered via Amazon...54 Euro with shipping inc.


but the razer is back-lit and piano gloss finish! and the on the fly macro will be nice


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


but the razer is back-lit and piano gloss finish! and the on the fly macro will be nice


If you can't touchtype I guess that's important...

Like I said: If you want to pay more than twice that, don't try to sell me on it, just buy it...


----------



## BigT

if i was able to get a cherry locally for a great price i would or even Deck backlit, or an ione backlit, but for me they will all be the sme price or more. and sorry im not trying to sell it to anyone, i am juts really stoked like a 5 year old at christmas time









what do you use?


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


if i was able to get a cherry locally for a great price i would or even Deck backlit, or an ione backlit, but for me they will all be the sme price or more. and sorry im not trying to sell it to anyone, i am juts really stoked like a 5 year old at christmas time









what do you use?


I'm a bit of a mouse and keyboard-nazi...

- Logitech G15 for the macro keys... used to be my daily driver...
- Cherry black switch keyboard, small form-factor x 3
- Cherry blue switch keyboard
- Cherry RED switch keyboard from hong kong...

I guess it's because I've been disappointed by Razer with the last Lachesis... I loved it! But it didn't work with windows 7 and Razer couldn't tell me if and when they were working on fixing it...

And a month later, they brought out the "new" Razer, rather then fixing the old **** first... That's just money-grabbing, greedy thinking...

They may claim by gamers for gamers, but really it's by ruthless capitalists, for people that haven't been burned yet by razer...

I used to be their biggest fan for going on 10 years...


----------



## gordesky1

Pretty much what sold me on the Blackwidow Ultimate that made me preorder it,

Is well the looks which is nice and looks solid, And than the backlit each key has a led under it like the deck but costs cheaper, Even tho i don't look at my keyboard when i used it lol, But nice feature too have which looks nice, Than a extra usb which is close so i could plug my mouse right into it, Than lastly the macros which i never used before but when i was using the old gateway 2000 anykey that has macros before i got the abs m1 i loved using them and was fun too play with.

That gateway still is a awesome keyboard for how old it is and built like a tank. Just too bad it was a mech or i be using that for ever lol

Heck if my abs m1 had those features even just the macros buttons i just stick with it sense im still loving it for the key feel and sound. Best 40$ i ever spent on a computer peripheral.

And another one is the warmouse which is a awesome mouse, All the buttons do come in handy sense i have all my macros on it







Than the support is insane, They sending a brand new fix mouse for the small problems that the first batch has which pretty much mine fix it self over time lol, And they letting us keep the old ones too for just 25$ So 95$ for 2 mouses







Be nice if other company's would follow there lead and learn a few things.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


It doesn't. Have the plate that is.


Erm

Sauce?


----------



## BigT

it must, i think almost all mechanical keyboards do.... it weighs alot so it will be sturdy no matter what.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


Pretty much what sold me on the Blackwidow Ultimate that made me preorder it,

Is well the looks which is nice and looks solid, And than the backlit each key has a led under it like the deck but costs cheaper, Even tho i don't look at my keyboard when i used it lol, But nice feature too have which looks nice, Than a extra usb which is close so i could plug my mouse right into it, Than lastly the macros which i never used before but when i was using the old gateway 2000 anykey that has macros before i got the abs m1 i loved using them and was fun too play with.

That gateway still is a awesome keyboard for how old it is and built like a tank. Just too bad it was a mech or i be using that for ever lol

Heck if my abs m1 had those features even just the macros buttons i just stick with it sense im still loving it for the key feel and sound. Best 40$ i ever spent on a computer peripheral.

And another one is the warmouse which is a awesome mouse, All the buttons do come in handy sense i have all my macros on it







Than the support is insane, They sending a brand new fix mouse for the small problems that the first batch has which pretty much mine fix it self over time lol, And they letting us keep the old ones too for just 25$ So 95$ for 2 mouses







Be nice if other company's would follow there lead and learn a few things.


Hope you tried to use this. ------>$5 Coupon - fiv3offr4z3r7


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


I'm a bit of a mouse and keyboard-nazi...

- Logitech G15 for the macro keys... used to be my daily driver...
- Cherry black switch keyboard, small form-factor x 3
- Cherry blue switch keyboard
- Cherry RED switch keyboard from hong kong...

I guess it's because I've been disappointed by Razer with the last Lachesis... I loved it! But it didn't work with windows 7 and Razer couldn't tell me if and when they were working on fixing it...

And a month later, they brought out the "new" Razer, rather then fixing the old **** first... That's just money-grabbing, greedy thinking...

They may claim by gamers for gamers, but really it's by ruthless capitalists, for people that haven't been burned yet by razer...

I used to be their biggest fan for going on 10 years...










you got a nice collection, i have a lycosa, a g15, and a saitek eclipse 2. no mechanicals.....yet.

i had no problems wiht the lachesis on windows 7, as soon as seven came out it worked well for me. i just liked the copperhead better so i use my old copperhead. great mouse.


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


you got a nice collection, i have a lycosa, a g15, and a saitek eclipse 2. no mechanicals.....yet.

i had no problems wiht the lachesis on windows 7, as soon as seven came out it worked well for me. i just liked the copperhead better so i use my old copperhead. great mouse.


Did your lachesis keep the DPI settings? On mine it's back to default immediately after closing the driver-window... Like the onboard mem is broken... But I read that many other people have the same problem...

lol, I JUST ordered a diamondback 3g yesterday...








I must have like 10 mice right now...

- Steelseries Xai
- Copperhead
- Abyssus
- old version Diamondback
- very very old Boomslang 2000
- Boomslang rebuild by Terratec
- Lachesis ("old" Version)
- Microsoft 3.0
and soon
- Diamondback 3g

I'm such a peripheral-whore....









Also got many mousepads...


----------



## zzz

is there a set release date yet?


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zzz*


is there a set release date yet?


09/21/10 is estimated ship date, whatever that means, i hope it comes out sooner.

as seen here

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.35156900


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


Did your lachesis keep the DPI settings? On mine it's back to default immediately after closing the driver-window... Like the onboard mem is broken... But I read that many other people have the same problem...

lol, I JUST ordered a diamondback 3g yesterday...







I must have like 10 mice right now...

- Steelseries Xai
- Copperhead
- Abyssus
- old version Diamondback
- very very old Boomslang 2000
- Boomslang rebuild by Terratec
- Lachesis ("old" Version)
- Microsoft 3.0
and soon
- Diamondback 3g

I'm such a peripheral-whore....









Also got many mousepads...


i am a periphera-whore as well i love buying new things for my computer. my lachesis did not have that problem but i did update the firmware on it. same with my copperhead, i kept updateing it as well, and saveing the old firmware versions incase a rollback was needed. i updated it today, i just put on the new 1.30. there was a 1.32 but it was acting funny so i went back to 1.30. the 1.19 and 1.20 and 1.21 worked well for me as well. i think razer has great support. they are always makeing new firmware for their products adn workign to improve them. so i am looking forward to ne new blackwidow. i would love a cherry blue tho as well. lol i am disapointed the copperhead is discontinued tho. there are not many mice that fit my hand the way i like. i hope something else comes out before my copperhead dies from simply being used too much. i have had it for like 5 years tho and still going strong. it has seen windows xp, xp64 bit, vista, and now 7. this mouse has seen alot in its days. hopefully this blackwidow is of an even higher caliber!


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


09/21/10 is estimated ship date, whatever that means, i hope it comes out sooner.


I think you'll be happy with the blue switches in the Razer... I thought the blues would be far worse for gaming than my reds... BUT actually they aren't much different AND you'll be able to type with them FAR better... Blues are the best keys for typing...

Really, the only instance where reds are better than blues is when you have to press keys very quickly... Imagine balancing on a wire in an FPS-game and you'll get what I'm trying to say...


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Hope you tried to use this. ------>$5 Coupon - fiv3offr4z3r7



Nope... I preordered than about hour or 2 later i saw you posting that code.. lol

Im always in such a rush when ordering things.. lol

Hopefully someone else that is gonna preorder it will used that code


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcbrite* 
Really, the only instance where reds are better than blues is when you have to press keys very quickly... Imagine balancing on a wire in an FPS-game and you'll get what I'm trying to say...

Finally, what a nice explanation! + rep


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Finally, what a nice explanation! + rep

My pleasure! If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask!


----------



## Duscha

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


My pleasure! If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask!


Mcbrite I sent you a message via geekhack about the Reds from Hong Kong. I couldn't find the private message function on overclock.


----------



## admflameberg

I wouldnt mind getting it if it was around 50-70 dollars but 130. I dont care how good it is. I will never spend 100+ on a keyboard, At most prolly 50 dollarsr at max but 70 would be pushing it.

They should make a cheaper Mechanical keyboard model but without the leds and maybe micro functions or whatever.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *admflameberg*


I wouldnt mind getting it if it was around 50-70 dollars but 130. I dont care how good it is. I will never spend 100+ on a keyboard, At most prolly 50 dollarsr at max but 70 would be pushing it.

They should make a cheaper Mechanical keyboard model but without the leds and maybe micro functions or whatever.


no led edition = 70$, did you read it lol?!


----------



## lmnop

Logitech just launched the K800 and G150, both are non-mechanical and have MSRP of $100+.

the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate is the first mechanical keyboard that comes with all the trimmings except the LCD it's fairly priced at $129.


----------



## ch_123

Given how cheap LEDs are, I'm surprised that they bothered omitting them on the lower end model. Marketing I guess...


----------



## lmnop

I was surprised they added 5 extra Cherry MX switches for the dedicated Macro keys.


----------



## ch_123

Probably would cost more to hook up membrane buttons to the PCB... Besides, there's the whole economy of scale stuff to consider.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Probably would cost more to hook up membrane buttons to the PCB... Besides, there's the whole economy of scale stuff to consider.

if there were any membrane keys on it i would not buy it. i want a fully mechanical keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
if there were any membrane keys on it i would not buy it. i want a fully mechanical keyboard.

don't worry it would cost a lot of money to do that and it wouldn't be practical. mechanical keyboards are industrial why put a component on it that will fail long before the rest?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm in the pool for a review sample. Comment on my HWA reviews and they'll be more likely to send me one.


----------



## Marin

Link them and I shall comment.


----------



## squarebox




----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Link them and I shall comment.

http://hardwareaware.com/


----------



## squarebox




----------



## squarebox




----------



## squarebox




----------



## Phaedrus2129

No offense man, but none of those pictures are particularly useful.


----------



## Tatakai All

I was gonna get one of these but decided on a Deck Legend instead. Being that they have black switches instead of blues.


----------



## squarebox

just sharing what i got Singapore's distributor...
I thought sharing would be nice thing to do but apparently it is not a nice thing to do on the internet.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's ok man, but I'd like to see shots of the internal build quality and a picture of the switch with the LEDs off. The keyboard from 20 different angles... Not quite so much.


----------



## squarebox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
It's ok man, but I'd like to see shots of the internal build quality and a picture of the switch with the LEDs off. The keyboard from 20 different angles... Not quite so much.

I highly doubt the distributor will disassemble the keyboard but i try asking anyways.
Singapore is filled with fanboys...
geeks population = cant meet the demand minimum. Thus, we cant get alot of things/special requests.

local distributor are making a killing over here.
steep markups...
E.g the MSRP is USD$129.99 which equals to USD$129.99 x 1.37 = SGD$179.99
But they will probably sell at SGD$209.99 and above....


----------



## BigT

OMG OMG OMG i want one!!!!!


----------



## krameriffic

Might be a mechanical, but it's still a Razer. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of durability issues.


----------



## Sikkamore

Glossy... yuck! And blue is such a crappy color and it's too over used.


----------



## BigT

Blue is the best colour! check out my sniper, you can how good blue really is


----------



## Tatakai All

Nah, red FTW.


----------



## Genkaz92

So far it appears to be quite interesting, I might consider purchasing it after my Sidewinder X6 breaks down, it is already a little bit broken, but I will wait for it to become completely unusable.

Other two options would be a Filco Majestouch or a Steelseries 7G, it is important to observe the reviews for this keyboard first before making the final decision.

It would be important for the finally decided upon keyboard to be suitable/recommended for gaming.

Currently the most questionable one is the Majestouch, due to it's unconfirmed gaming comfort (I would appreciate if someone told me about their experiences with it gaming wise.)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


So far it appears to be quite interesting, I might consider purchasing it after my Sidewinder X6 breaks down, it is already a little bit broken, but I will wait for it to become completely unusable.

Other two options would be a Filco Majestouch or a Steelseries 7G, it is important to observe the reviews for this keyboard first before making the final decision.

It would be important for the finally decided upon keyboard to be suitable/recommended for gaming.


but see we know about the manufacturer, all the mechanical keyboard manufacturers TG3, Unicomp, iOne, Datacomp, Costar, Topre. we know what to expect.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


but see we know about the manufacturer, all the mechanical keyboard manufacturers TG3, Unicomp, iOne, Datacomp, Costar, Topre. we know what to expect.


And what do we know to expect with this one?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


And what do we know to expect with this one?


the quality will be average. average is good. I have some concerns about the keycaps wobbling. I don't think Razer is going to surprise me.


----------



## Genkaz92

I shifted my interest to this one: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30


----------



## Evil-Jester

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


I shifted my interest to this one: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30


ya i been looking at that one







kinda wish the still had the red/green ones of those


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evil-Jester*


ya i been looking at that one







kinda wish the still had the red/green ones of those


I am actually absolutely cool with the Ice version (pun intended) but yes, it would indeed be quite nice if it had more color options.


----------



## lmnop

there were 6 Deck 82 Toxic available on eBay but the seller removed the last 2 this morning.

I am not sure if it's possible to mount Bi or RGB LED with a Cherry MX Switch on the same PCB. the LED Deck use are industrial grade rated for 22 years you cannot buy them in a store.

if you like to mod.

Deck sells casings so you can do things like this.


























Deck 82 Toxic with a clear casing and White LED.

Performance-PCs sells a set of Blank Keycaps for the Deck 82.


----------



## Razer|Ark

Hi all,

Iâ€™m Jason and Iâ€™m part of the Razer product team for the Razer BlackWidow.

Weâ€™ve been following this and related mechanical keyboard threads on various forums and on behalf of the team, Iâ€™d like to thank everyone for your interest in mechanical keyboards and the Razer BlackWidow in particular.

The community is very important to Razer and weâ€™d like to do our best to address your needs and concerns. Over the past few weeks, weâ€™ve seen a huge number of queries (and some misconceptions) that have been posted on this forum and weâ€™re taking this opportunity to clear as much as we can before the first reviews start coming out!

Unfortunately, we wonâ€™t be able to monitor all the forums as much as we would like to but weâ€™re definitely looking forward to hearing your feedback and any other suggestions that you may have for the Razer BlackWidow and our future mechanical keyboard products. Iâ€™ve appended my contact info below as I wonâ€™t be able to track this on a regular basis (so my apologies in advance for not tracking this thread regularly â€" Iâ€™ve tried to cover as many of the queries as possible) â€" feel free to reach out!


> 1. Why did Razer go mechanical? Because weâ€™ve always had mech heads in the office as well as gamers calling for them â€" it took us a while because we went through several re-designs, but we think youâ€™ll like what you see. The Razer BlackWidow will be the first line of mech keyboards that we will release.
> 
> 2.What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all â€" we use the Cherry Blues â€" and in our design process, weâ€™ve got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so itâ€™s not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. Soâ€¦theyâ€™re cherry-picked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I canâ€™t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.
> 
> 3.OMG/WTH/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same â€" blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs. So we picked the Blues intentionally from the get go. We went through a design cycle with each of the different switches and our ergo team together with our pool of pro gamers went through extensive validation of the Blues â€" we came up with 2 real conclusions, 1. Itâ€™s a question of preference of each user primarily and 2. Thereâ€™s a lot of marketing bullcrap and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.
> 
> We finally picked the Blues over the others like the blacks after the testing/validation that we did over the past couple of yearsâ€" the data was pretty clear to us. The biggest downside to the Blues was the sound â€" but the other features were huge winners â€" and the data we collated from hundreds of pro/amateur gamers indicated that the tactile and clicky Blues provided a significant advantage to the gamers as opposed to those that used other switches (though we wouldnâ€™t recommend LAN centers to kit up on the Razer BlackWidows, it would drive everyone crazy). A few people here also brought up the release point of the blue switches being higher than the actuation point by a fraction of a millimeter requiring you to release it fully to ensure a re-actuation. This was also one of the issues that we had tested extensively internally with our test robots as well as with our pro-gamers and this was addressed as part of our design. The Blues do provide a better switch mechanism for gaming (although it depends on your preference at the end of the day too). Donâ€™t take our word for it, give the Razer BlackWidow a go â€" you may just realize that you prefer the Blues at the end of the day.
> 
> 4.Does the Razer BlackWidow have NKRO? We were the first in the world to push the limits of anti-ghosting when we released the Razer Tarantula gaming keyboard some 4 years ago, so we know how important this feature is for many gamers. However, we also balance this against the other features that gamers require. . Razer BlackWidowâ€™s up to 6-key rollover gaming optimized key matrix serves a similar purpose for gamers who need anti-ghosting while using an ordinary USB port (as opposed to a PS/2 port). In addition, by using a USB connection the Razer BlackWidow is able to provide gamers advanced customization and performance features that are not available using a PS/2 connection, using Razerâ€™s configuration software.
> 
> 5.What were the key areas of design/engineering that make the Razer BlackWidow a mechanical gaming keyboard? We spent a lot of time on this â€" balancing some of the cool features that we wanted to put into the product vs making sure that we didnâ€™t alienate users with a keytop scheme that would be too difficult to just jump into. The biggest challenge was primarily that from the get go â€" how to design the Razer BlackWidow to be as simple for the new user to use, to ease him into mech keyboards but also to provide the competitive advantage in game play.
> 
> Some of the key design features include our shifting of the F-key row from the traditional position to the right â€" just above the WASD cluster (F1 is above the W key). There are significant gaming ergo benefits to the same. We also included 5 additional gaming keys and did a significant study into the angle of the keytop to the desk surface ratio to ensure a uniform keystroke experience across all the keys during game play. A couple of other things include on-the-fly macro recording, gaming profiles etc, but our focus was to provide as many subtle changes as possible that may not seem evident at first glance but ultimately indispensable after a few hours of use.
> 
> 6.Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our ergonomics team has made subtle changes to the placement of the keytop â€" while most of the placement of the keys have been retained to allow gamers to immediately get used to the key locations, we have shifted the F-key row to the right slightly to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive ergonomics tests have shown that this new alignment will allow faster keypress accuracy for games that require the use of the F-key row. Some slight adjustment will be required.
> 
> 7.The Razer BlackWidow must be a cheapass, low quality piece of junk because it costs US$79.99 while other mech keyboards cost at least twice that! I insist on paying twice more! Well, due to the feedback, we have decided to increase the price to US$149.99 for the Razer BlackWidow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just kidding)
> 
> We find it really odd anyone can pass judgment on the quality before even getting their hands on one (just saying)â€" but the proof is in the pudding â€" wait for the first couple of reviews that should be out soon or try one out when we release it in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> Seriously, thereâ€™s really no reason for mech keyboards to cost a bomb. It just doesnâ€™t make any sense and we didnâ€™t see the need to peg an ultra-high price without any reason for it. The Razer BlackWidow was designed by a group of gamers internally (I was one of them) within Razer that championed the mech switches and we believe in propagating this to as many gamers out there without profiting unfairly off them.
> 
> Donâ€™t take our word for it, wait for the reviews or better yet, try it out yourself. Weâ€™re big fans of the mechanical keyboard ourselves and weâ€™re looking to get it into as many hands as possible â€" this is our one chance to make mech keyboard ubiquitous for gaming. The more we make, the better our next mechanical keyboard will be. We believe in this and we welcome as much feedback from the community as possible so that we can make a better product.


To get more updates and new reviews as they are posted, you can join our twitter feed at http://twitter.com/cultofrazer. Do join our Facebook fansite too at www.facebook.com/razer

If you represent an established review site and would like to do a review do reach out to me at [email protected]. Kindly include information on your identity and the review website you represent and weâ€™ll try to get you a review unit (no promises). Weâ€™ll try our best to answer every single email but I do have a day job and Iâ€™ll do what I can to get back to you if I can!


----------



## mcbrite

Given the utter disaster that's the Razer Mamba (gave it back after struggling 3 months with it) and the complete letdown with Razer's cutomer service I experienced regarding Win7 compatibility for the (now old) Razer Lachesis, I really doubt I'll be spending/wasting any more money, be it $79 or $149...

After being a die-hard Razer-fan for close to 10 years, you managed to disappoint me THOROUGHLY in less then 6 months...

The funniest/saddest thing is you expecting customers to buy the new version of the Lachesis rather then fixing the old version...

I'm done with Razer... And the way it's going right now, so are/will be, many others.

For gamers, by gamers? - For gullible hopeful gamers, by aloof capitalists...

(Typed on my Cherry Blue keyboard that works perfectly well without Razer jumping on the bandwagon YEARS too late...)


----------



## Jalal

The thing i feared about this keyboard from the time i knew it was clicky, is that teenagers buy it, bother their familiy and arguments arise. Also no gaming for them anymore when someones asleep. Has Razer considered this?


----------



## Sheira

Yeah, I probably wont be buying this due to noisy buttons too. Its nice to see a response from someone from Razer product team tho. Thanks for that.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


The thing i feared about this keyboard from the time i knew it was clicky, is that teenagers buy it, bother their familiy and arguments arise. Also no gaming for them anymore when someones asleep. Has Razer considered this?


The clicking is not that loud.


----------



## PsalmLove

Hi Razer Product Team! I'd like one with RED (or heck, white) backlights please, in matte black furniture, ditch the gloss - a fingerprint magnet finish on a surface that's meant for fingers is a big headscratcher for me.


----------



## EpicPie

It looks pretty.


----------



## Turbonerd

I was really dissapointed by Razer Lycosa and Arctosa and decided to buy steelseries 6gv2 instead of waiting for this one.
I am very happy with my Deathadder though.


----------



## .45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Razer|Ark* 
Hi all,

Iâ€™m Jason and Iâ€™m part of the Razer product team for the Razer BlackWidow.

Weâ€™ve been following this and related mechanical keyboard threads on various forums and on behalf of the team, Iâ€™d like to thank everyone for your interest in mechanical keyboards and the Razer BlackWidow in particular.

The community is very important to Razer and weâ€™d like to do our best to address your needs and concerns. Over the past few weeks, weâ€™ve seen a huge number of queries (and some misconceptions) that have been posted on this forum and weâ€™re taking this opportunity to clear as much as we can before the first reviews start coming out!

Unfortunately, we wonâ€™t be able to monitor all the forums as much as we would like to but weâ€™re definitely looking forward to hearing your feedback and any other suggestions that you may have for the Razer BlackWidow and our future mechanical keyboard products. Iâ€™ve appended my contact info below as I wonâ€™t be able to track this on a regular basis (so my apologies in advance for not tracking this thread regularly â€" Iâ€™ve tried to cover as many of the queries as possible) â€" feel free to reach out!


> 1.


Why did Razer go mechanical? Because weâ€™ve always had mech heads in the office as well as gamers calling for them â€" it took us a while because we went through several re-designs, but we think youâ€™ll like what you see. The Razer BlackWidow will be the first line of mech keyboards that we will release.

2.What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all â€" we use the Cherry Blues â€" and in our design process, weâ€™ve got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so itâ€™s not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. Soâ€¦theyâ€™re cherry-picked.







I canâ€™t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.

3.OMG/WTH/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same â€" blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs. So we picked the Blues intentionally from the get go. We went through a design cycle with each of the different switches and our ergo team together with our pool of pro gamers went through extensive validation of the Blues â€" we came up with 2 real conclusions, 1. Itâ€™s a question of preference of each user primarily and 2. Thereâ€™s a lot of marketing bullcrap and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.

We finally picked the Blues over the others like the blacks after the testing/validation that we did over the past couple of yearsâ€" the data was pretty clear to us. The biggest downside to the Blues was the sound â€" but the other features were huge winners â€" and the data we collated from hundreds of pro/amateur gamers indicated that the tactile and clicky Blues provided a significant advantage to the gamers as opposed to those that used other switches (though we wouldnâ€™t recommend LAN centers to kit up on the Razer BlackWidows, it would drive everyone crazy). A few people here also brought up the release point of the blue switches being higher than the actuation point by a fraction of a millimeter requiring you to release it fully to ensure a re-actuation. This was also one of the issues that we had tested extensively internally with our test robots as well as with our pro-gamers and this was addressed as part of our design. The Blues do provide a better switch mechanism for gaming (although it depends on your preference at the end of the day too). Donâ€™t take our word for it, give the Razer BlackWidow a go â€" you may just realize that you prefer the Blues at the end of the day.

4.Does the Razer BlackWidow have NKRO? We were the first in the world to push the limits of anti-ghosting when we released the Razer Tarantula gaming keyboard some 4 years ago, so we know how important this feature is for many gamers. However, we also balance this against the other features that gamers require. . Razer BlackWidowâ€™s up to 6-key rollover gaming optimized key matrix serves a similar purpose for gamers who need anti-ghosting while using an ordinary USB port (as opposed to a PS/2 port). In addition, by using a USB connection the Razer BlackWidow is able to provide gamers advanced customization and performance features that are not available using a PS/2 connection, using Razerâ€™s configuration software.

5.What were the key areas of design/engineering that make the Razer BlackWidow a mechanical gaming keyboard? We spent a lot of time on this â€" balancing some of the cool features that we wanted to put into the product vs making sure that we didnâ€™t alienate users with a keytop scheme that would be too difficult to just jump into. The biggest challenge was primarily that from the get go â€" how to design the Razer BlackWidow to be as simple for the new user to use, to ease him into mech keyboards but also to provide the competitive advantage in game play.

Some of the key design features include our shifting of the F-key row from the traditional position to the right â€" just above the WASD cluster (F1 is above the W key). There are significant gaming ergo benefits to the same. We also included 5 additional gaming keys and did a significant study into the angle of the keytop to the desk surface ratio to ensure a uniform keystroke experience across all the keys during game play. A couple of other things include on-the-fly macro recording, gaming profiles etc, but our focus was to provide as many subtle changes as possible that may not seem evident at first glance but ultimately indispensable after a few hours of use.

6.Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our ergonomics team has made subtle changes to the placement of the keytop â€" while most of the placement of the keys have been retained to allow gamers to immediately get used to the key locations, we have shifted the F-key row to the right slightly to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive ergonomics tests have shown that this new alignment will allow faster keypress accuracy for games that require the use of the F-key row. Some slight adjustment will be required.

7.The Razer BlackWidow must be a cheapass, low quality piece of junk because it costs US$79.99 while other mech keyboards cost at least twice that! I insist on paying twice more! Well, due to the feedback, we have decided to increase the price to US$149.99 for the Razer BlackWidow.







(just kidding)

We find it really odd anyone can pass judgment on the quality before even getting their hands on one (just saying)â€" but the proof is in the pudding â€" wait for the first couple of reviews that should be out soon or try one out when we release it in the next couple of weeks.

Seriously, thereâ€™s really no reason for mech keyboards to cost a bomb. It just doesnâ€™t make any sense and we didnâ€™t see the need to peg an ultra-high price without any reason for it. The Razer BlackWidow was designed by a group of gamers internally (I was one of them) within Razer that championed the mech switches and we believe in propagating this to as many gamers out there without profiting unfairly off them.

Donâ€™t take our word for it, wait for the reviews or better yet, try it out yourself. Weâ€™re big fans of the mechanical keyboard ourselves and weâ€™re looking to get it into as many hands as possible â€" this is our one chance to make mech keyboard ubiquitous for gaming. The more we make, the better our next mechanical keyboard will be. We believe in this and we welcome as much feedback from the community as possible so that we can make a better product.

To get more updates and new reviews as they are posted, you can join our twitter feed at http://twitter.com/cultofrazer. Do join our Facebook fansite too at www.facebook.com/razer

If you represent an established review site and would like to do a review do reach out to me at [email protected]. Kindly include information on your identity and the review website you represent and weâ€™ll try to get you a review unit (no promises). Weâ€™ll try our best to answer every single email but I do have a day job and Iâ€™ll do what I can to get back to you if I can!

Thank you arc for stopping by, i figured if i asked a rep to come to this topic on the facebook page i'd get one to help everyone understand the product better. Thank you.


----------



## ripster

Use protection. The Razer Marketing dude fools around.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Use protection. The Razer Marketing dude fools around.

Sir, I would like to commend you for the laugh. The most entertaining part was this:

Quote:

Seriously, thereâ€™s really no reason for mech keyboards to cost a bomb. It just doesnâ€™t make any sense and we didnâ€™t see the need to peg an ultra-high price without any reason for it. The Razer BlackWidow was designed by a group of gamers internally (I was one of them) within Razer that championed the mech switches and we believe in propagating this to as many gamers out there without profiting unfairly off them.
THE IRONY IS INCREDIBLE!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I especially love how they decided to make $1 more per keyboard by leaving out diodes for NKRO.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

x100 would be 100 more in profit! I love math...


----------



## British

Quote:


Originally Posted by *.45* 
Thank you arc for stopping by, i figured if i asked a rep to come to this topic on the facebook page i'd get one to help everyone understand the product better. Thank you.









Is it because you're a fanboi that you felt the need to fully quote his wall of text ?

Regarding the switch, even if dampened, clicky is clicky.
Having picked and modified (







) MX blues is OK, I guess, I just hope for Razer's sake that they'll be able to propose other switches sometime (modified as well ? oh lord protect us







).

Quote:

I canâ€™t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.
Now that was fun.
"_We modified the MX blue switch, and we won't tell you how, but trust us_."
I guess that's what reviews are for... unfortunately, as it has been seen on... let's say youtube... some people don't know how to actually review a keyboard, moreso a mechanical one.

I'm not sure how to understand the tolerance comment... is it about durability or size... or even something else ?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:

I'm not sure how to understand the tolerance comment... is it about durability or size... or even something else ?
Marketing.

Interested to hear what this super secret special switch modification is. Rubber bands? Dampers on the sliders? Moar gold on the contacts? Or nothing at all really? My money is on that last one...


----------



## nvidiagamer

I'll be honest, this keyboard looks awesome. Why do so many people have a problem with Razer? I haven't owned any of their products, but this keyboard looks amazing. Are there any reviews out for it yet? I really am considering getting this, it would be my first mechanical keyboard.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Marketing.

Interested to hear what this super secret special switch modification is. Rubber bands? Dampers on the sliders? Moar gold on the contacts? Or nothing at all really? My money is on that last one...

Yup, sounds like pure marketing to me too. Its Razer though should we expect anything different?


----------



## British

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nvidiagamer* 
I'll be honest, this keyboard looks awesome. Why do so many people have a problem with Razer? I haven't owned any of their products, but this keyboard looks amazing. Are there any reviews out for it yet? I really am considering getting this, it would be my first mechanical keyboard.

As always, there's more to things than meet the eyes.
Or, if you prefer, don't judge a book by its cover.

As it has been said, Razer's (and of course Logitech's and others') target are gamers, and it seems that nowadays gamers are very gullible when it comes to marketing crap.

What the mechanical _aficionados_ are trying to figure out is what is actually under the shiny surface and "gamer" marketing BS (ghosting, one zillion KHz _something_ and the likes).

IMO Razer did some interesting moves, at its beginning (think Boomslang), but the quality of their actual products is often subject of controversy.

Regarding making it your first mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend waiting for reviews prior to pulling the trigger.
And I mean *real* reviews, not the regular basic reviews like "_we tested the keyboard: the keys, when pressed, gave a direct result on the screen... oh, and it's shiny, 9/10 !_"


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *.45*


fanboy? I've gotten rid of all my razer products except for the mamba and use purely steelseries. I'm a Steelseries Rep.


Mamba is quite possibly the worst one of the bunch... What a disaster of a mouse...


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Keyboard is ugly.


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay*


Keyboard is ugly.


not enough fancy LCDs for you?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *British*


As always, there's more to things than meet the eyes.
Or, if you prefer, don't judge a book by its cover.

As it has been said, Razer's (and of course Logitech's and others') target are gamers, and it seems that nowadays gamers are very gullible when it comes to marketing crap.

What the mechanical _aficionados_ are trying to figure out is what is actually under the shiny surface and "gamer" marketing BS (ghosting, one zillion KHz _something_ and the likes).

IMO Razer did some interesting moves, at its beginning (think Boomslang), but the quality of their actual products is often subject of controversy.

Regarding making it your first mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend waiting for reviews prior to pulling the trigger.
And I mean *real* reviews, not the regular basic reviews like "_we tested the keyboard: the keys, when pressed, gave a direct result on the screen... oh, and it's shiny, 9/10 !_"


This.

The only halfway decent product they had was the deathadder and they still managed to mess that up by switching out the Avago 3688 with a "copy" that produced more DPI.

Why do I have the feeling that the blackwidow is going to get custom switches in a year or so to maximize profit?

I mean, they already cut cost with this "gaming oriented 6 key roll over" rofl


----------



## Beric

This may be my dream keyboard. Backlit mechanical with media keys. If only I had the cash...


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


This.

The only halfway decent product they had was the deathadder and they still managed to mess that up by switching out the Avago 3688 with a "copy" that produced more DPI.

Why do I have the feeling that the blackwidow is going to get custom switches in a year or so to maximize profit?

I mean, they already cut cost with this "gaming oriented 6 key roll over" rofl


seeing as you always cut down something every time i see you post, I would like you to recommend what you think are "quality" products.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *.45*


seeing as you always cut down something every time i see you post, I would like you to recommend what you think are "quality" products.


I only cut down products that show faults and rely on marketing for sales. I mean, If they're honestly trying to save a dollar by not implementing NKRO Razer has to do a lot to redeem themselves.

As for quality, you have to be your own judge. A product could use the nicest materials in the world, but something like a plagued sensor could ruin the thing from reaching perfection. The kinzu for example would be the *perfect* mouse, but steelseries just had to cheap out with plastic mouse feet and poor optical hardware...

If I were to tell you that my main mouse was a cheap POS would you take me seriously? because that's what it is. The Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 has severely degraded in quality over the years, but the 400 DPI MLT04 sensor still keeps this mouse a float.


----------



## .45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
I only cut down products that show faults and rely on marketing for sales. I mean, If they're honestly trying to save a dollar by not implementing NKRO Razer has to do a lot to redeem themselves.

As for quality, you have to be your own judge. A product could use the nicest materials in the world, but something like a plagued sensor could ruin the thing from reaching perfection. The kinzu for example would be the *perfect* mouse, but steelseries just had to cheap out with plastic mouse feet and poor optical hardware...

If I were to tell you that my main mouse was a cheap POS would you take me seriously? because that's what it is. The Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 has severely degraded in quality over the years, but the 400 DPI MLT04 sensor still keeps this mouse a float.

I would take you seriously no matter what you use, I think I just misinterpret what you say as ignorance, which its not. My apologies.


----------



## Calamity

Despite all of the ratings of Razer mice here, I have owned a Lachesis since it came out and I picked up a deathadder when that one also came out and I have never had 1 problem with either of the mice.


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Calamity*


Despite all of the ratings of Razer mice here, I have owned a Lachesis since it came out and I picked up a deathadder when that one also came out and I have never had 1 problem with either of the mice.


same way with me, had a copper head, a lachesis and now a mamba, not one issue. never bought their headphones. always heard **** about them being poorly made. still holds true apparently. Had the razer Tarantula, worked for 2 years and the domes died.... prob one of my favorite keyboards.


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *.45* 
same way with me, had a copper head, a lachesis and now a mamba, not one issue. never bought their headphones. always heard **** about them being poorly made. still holds true apparently. Had the razer Tarantula, worked for 2 years and the domes died.... prob one of my favorite keyboards.

Like I said... If you own a Mamba and "haven't had one problem" with it, in MY eyes at least you know nothing about mice... The Mamba is is the saddest example of all mice... Good technology in theory, being let-down all over the place... Thank god I was able to give it back after struggling for over 3 months to get to grips with it...

I switched it to 2TB hd-space via store credit... Much more useful and much less headache...


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcbrite* 
Like I said... If you own a Mamba and "haven't had one problem" with it, in MY eyes at least you know nothing about mice... The Mamba is is the saddest example of all mice... Good technology in theory, being let-down all over the place... Thank god I was able to give it back after struggling for over 3 months to get to grips with it...

I switched it to 2TB hd-space via store credit... Much more useful and much less headache...


Ony problem i see with my mamba which really didn't bother me is when you left it and put it down couple times it will go down too the bottom right. Oh and it doesn't track on my rocket fish mouse pad well it does but sometimes stops and goes. Other than that i liked it, But ya there are better mouses out there which too me is the warmouse which is my main mouse right now.

If razer and other mouses that has the twin eye sensor would've made the sensor hole more bigger and more closer too the surface it pretty much wont have problems, Like the war mouse it uses the same sensor but the lazer is bigger because of the hole being bigger and its closer too the surface and doesn't suffer with those problems









Other than that problem the mamba is great when i used mine and was the most conformable mouse my hand ever touch. And i have own tons of mouse over the years even 2 Microsoft 1.1 mouses









It just depends on what the person likes. Just like the war mouse its not for everyone but doesn't mean its a bad mouse. Everyone has their own preferences.

And ya every razer product i had never disappointed me, Which why i preordered the black widow u, I just hope i like it because right now i really like my abs m1 for the sound and key feel.


----------



## fssbzz

no NKRO..or i will really get it for that price


----------



## gordesky1

Ya not sure why they left that out.. But im not really worried about that sense i never had a problem with the abs m1, If it does at least 4 keys like my abs m1 does than it shouldn't be a problem for me. Maybe if you play 2 players on the same keyboard than i could see it being a problem with out nkro, But i hardly do 2 players on one keyboard and if i do i used controllers lol

3 reasons i preordered it was for the Blacklit which has a led under each key which i don't need it because i dont look at my keyboard most of the time lol but nice too look at.. And macros which does come in handy just like my warmouse, And the price is pretty cheep for what you get.


----------



## gonX

I don't know why people are so worried about full NKRO. 6+4 is enough for pretty much any person.


----------



## The Mad Mule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I don't know why people are so worried about full NKRO. 6+4 is enough for pretty much any person.

That is true. I think the only reason why you would be pressing that many keys at once is if you're playing a computer game of Twister.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Mad Mule* 
That is true. I think the only reason why you would be pressing that many keys at once is if you're playing a computer game of Twister.

That's genius! I'd love some sort of finger-twister game for use on a keyboard.


----------



## SpookedJunglist

Wonder if it will sound anything like my IBM model M?


----------



## bengore

ill wait for razer black switches and matt black plastic furniture, hehe


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I don't know why people are so worried about full NKRO. 6+4 is enough for pretty much any person.

The Razer will NOT be 6KRO. It will be "Gamer Optimized".

Quote:

Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting
A full listing of NKRO, 6KRO, "Gaming Optimized" and regular old 2KRO keyboards is here.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
The Razer will NOT be 6KRO. It will be "Gamer Optimized".

A full listing of NKRO, 6KRO, "Gaming Optimized" and regular old 2KRO keyboards is here.

Unless I've misunderstood something, the Razer guy said in this thread that it'd be 6KRO.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Unless I've misunderstood something, the Razer guy said in this thread that it'd be 6KRO.

No, he said "up to 6 keys". World of difference there.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SpookedJunglist* 
Wonder if it will sound anything like my IBM model M?

The Blue Cherry switches are high pitched and plasticky sounding, like the clicker on one of those retractable pens. They have nothing on the thunderous clack of the Model M.


----------



## cyronn

lol that dude in that video is a reason cod4 pro player haha.

EDit: I actually like this keyboard I was going to get the valo but decided it was to expensive for what it was.


----------



## gonX

I'll upload a clip in a sec to demonstrate the sound of Cherry MX Blues.

http://gonx.be/Untitled.wma


----------



## ch_123

Just listen to these.

(Click on "Discussion" up top to open the thread with more)

EDIT: Direct link.


----------



## gonX

New and better one where the microphone doesn't lay ON the keyboard.

http://gonx.be/Untitled2.wma
This is me bottoming out on every keyclick... frankly it's not easy to avoid bottoming out when you're typing at high WPM's... so I tried giving it a lighter touch about half-way through the clip.


----------



## $ilent

Whats difference between say this new keyboard and my saitek eclipse 2? also what is a mechanical keyboard, I have no idea about KB's


----------



## mcbrite

Made a video recently comparing the sound and feel of the MX red with the MX blue, see here:


You Tube





(Red first/bottom; Blue second/top)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *$ilent* 
Whats difference between say this new keyboard and my saitek eclipse 2? also what is a mechanical keyboard, I have no idea about KB's

There's a stickied thread at the top of the peripherals section. Read it.


----------



## $ilent

also its Â£120 for this keyboard in UK...are you for fcukin real? $80 in america, which is Â£50, but then somewhere along the line they add Â£70 to the price...balls to that.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *$ilent* 
also its Â£120 for this keyboard in UK...are you for fcukin real? $80 in america, which is Â£50, but then somewhere along the line they add Â£70 to the price...balls to that.

You're probably looking at the Ultimate edition with backlightning that the non-ultimate version doesn't have.


----------



## $ilent

Right, Clever advertising in the first post, I assumed they meant $80 for the product they were talking about, not the other products in thier new line. The expert edition is still Â£80. So you pay extra Â£40 for backlighting?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *$ilent* 
Right, Clever advertising in the first post, I assumed they meant $80 for the product they were talking about, not the other products in thier new line. The expert edition is still Â£80. So you pay extra Â£40 for backlighting?

And USB hubs, yes.


----------



## $ilent

Is it worth the extra 40 quid?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Probably not.


----------



## cyronn

in my first post i did say i was more interested in this since i was going to buy the valo but think i will just stick with my microsoft natural ergonomic keyboard 4000 keyboard for now as its not really worth Â£120 for this widow


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Blue switches feel great, but if I hear anyone IRL talk about how Razer is amazing since they're the first companies to switch to/invent/use mechanical switches, Imma hit them hard.


----------



## tzillian

i got the preorder oin this and they said it should be shipping to me on the 21st. payed for next day so should have it by the 22nd.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tzillian*


i got the preorder oin this and they said it should be shipping to me on the 21st. payed for next day so should have it by the 22nd.



Hmm aint they shopping it out 10/13 like it says on the website?

It was 9/21 but they changed it, unless that date is wrong what they is listing.

Hmm just checked my order number and it also says 9/21/ , But the wepage listing says 10/13?


----------



## tzillian

LOL, maybe since we preordered we get it early? prob not. cant hurt to dream though.


----------



## gordesky1

Hehe hopefully









Even tho i remembered when they changed the preorder date my order date also changed too 10/13, But now its back too 9/21


----------



## P1ngou1N

Do you think the clicking noise is audible for other people on Skype/Teamspeak/Mumble ?

I really do want one, but if I can't use it when I am playing online with friends, then I won't buy it.

No reviews around the web for the keyboard so far ? I searched on Google but didn't find anything.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:



Originally Posted by *P1ngou1N*


Do you think the clicking noise is audible for other people on Skype/Teamspeak/Mumble ?

I really do want one, but if I can't use it when I am playing online with friends, then I won't buy it.

No reviews around the web for the keyboard so far ? I searched on Google but didn't find anything.


not unless you have a mic directed at your keyboard, you should have no problems.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *P1ngou1N*


Do you think the clicking noise is audible for other people on Skype/Teamspeak/Mumble ?

I really do want one, but if I can't use it when I am playing online with friends, then I won't buy it.

No reviews around the web for the keyboard so far ? I searched on Google but didn't find anything.


People I speak with on Skype say it's noticable to hear, but it's not annoying. But on Mumble it's no issue since the keyboard doesn't activate my microphone.


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *P1ngou1N*


Do you think the clicking noise is audible for other people on Skype/Teamspeak/Mumble ?

I really do want one, but if I can't use it when I am playing online with friends, then I won't buy it.

No reviews around the web for the keyboard so far ? I searched on Google but didn't find anything.


You'll definitely be able to pick up blue switches on your mic if it's anything but a total trashy oldschool mic... But I like that sound... And so will you... ;-D

However I can't recommend the Razer keyboard if you can get a normal cherry keyboard with the same switches for close to a third of the price...


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Quote:


Originally Posted by *.45* 
not enough fancy LCDs for you?









I have a Filco...so.....try again?


----------



## .45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay* 
I have a Filco...so.....try again?

then what are you complaining about?


----------



## [nK]Sharp

No different color led's, lame









Isn't the g27 also backlight with blue led's?


----------



## yashau

How's the backlighting compared to a Deck?


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Quote:



Originally Posted by *.45*


then what are you complaining about?


...how ugly it is.....your special arnt you?


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

Nkro?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW*


Nkro?


It's Razer brah. UP to 6 key gaming orientated Matrix> NKRO all day.

luls Kidding


----------



## Volvo

The only thing that's stopping me from getting this now, is the price.

I love keyboards with a full layout, so not having the arrow keys mashed with the main keys is a good thing.

I game exclusively in the dark, so backlighting is a need - I'm currently using a black keyed Compaq keyboard with grey WASD keys plucked from another Compaq keyboard.

I love the looks of this thing.

Now, if only we can have backlights that are color-changeable.
Blue, blue and more blue is getting really boring.


----------



## yashau

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volvo*


The only thing that's stopping me from getting this now, is the price.

I love keyboards with a full layout, so not having the arrow keys mashed with the main keys is a good thing.

I game exclusively in the dark, so backlighting is a need - I'm currently using a black keyed Compaq keyboard with grey WASD keys plucked from another Compaq keyboard.

I love the looks of this thing.

Now, if only we can have backlights that are color-changeable.
Blue, blue and more blue is getting really boring.


Not sure about Razer but Deck will cover warranty if even you change the LED color. There's loads of people with modded Legends like this one
https://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/....php?f=3&t=366


----------



## Ultimatium

That clicking noise is so addicting.


----------



## lmnop

I don't think you can mount Bi or RGB LED in a mechanical keyboard.

the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate and iOne XArmor U9BL use Generic Blue LED.

even if they are a single colour having one mounted to each Cherry MX switch looks better than indirect lighting.

one LED mounted to each Cherry MX switch









indirect lighting


----------



## Volvo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yashau*


Not sure about Razer but Deck will cover warranty if even you change the LED color. There's loads of people with modded Legends like this one
https://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/....php?f=3&t=366


I would love to have one of these.

They fulfil my fullsize keyboard need, and I think they'd look awesome with a bunch of green LEDs up top, soft, subtle white lights for the keys, and red LED's for WASD and arrows.


----------



## npham858

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volvo*


The only thing that's stopping me from getting this now, is the price.

I love keyboards with a full layout, so not having the arrow keys mashed with the main keys is a good thing.

I game exclusively in the dark, so backlighting is a need - I'm currently using a black keyed Compaq keyboard with grey WASD keys plucked from another Compaq keyboard.

I love the looks of this thing.

Now, if only we can have backlights that are color-changeable.
Blue, blue and more blue is getting really boring.


Can you explain what's wrong with the price? Das keyboards and Filcos cost roughly the same, but lack the backlighting that you and I both need since we both work exclusively in the dark.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ilco_keyboards
$109-$134
http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
$129-$135

I already have the Razer in my Amazon wishlist for $129 with no tax and free two day shipping. Just have to wait for the last of my Bing cashback to get transferred into my Amazon Payments account before I pull the trigger. Is there anything I should know? Or will this be a decent keyboard for the price (which is amazing coming from Razer)?

I've seen the deck keyboards, but something about them turns me off. Maybe it's the font of the keys.


----------



## Volvo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *npham858*


Can you explain what's wrong with the price? Das keyboards and Filcos cost roughly the same, but lack the backlighting that you and I both need since we both work exclusively in the dark.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ilco_keyboards
$109-$134
http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
$129-$135

I already have the Razer in my Amazon wishlist for $129 with no tax and free two day shipping. Just have to wait for the last of my Bing cashback to get transferred into my Amazon Payments account before I pull the trigger. Is there anything I should know? Or will this be a decent keyboard for the price (which is amazing coming from Razer)?

I've seen the deck keyboards, but something about them turns me off. Maybe it's the font of the keys.


The problem is that I cannot afford them.

Or rather, not at the moment.

Also, it's pretty hard to find a mech in Singapore.


----------



## dmreeves

my question is this or the steelseries 6gv2 ???


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *npham858*


Can you explain what's wrong with the price? Das keyboards and Filcos cost roughly the same, but lack the backlighting that you and I both need since we both work exclusively in the dark.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ilco_keyboards
$109-$134
http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
$129-$135

I already have the Razer in my Amazon wishlist for $129 with no tax and free two day shipping. Just have to wait for the last of my Bing cashback to get transferred into my Amazon Payments account before I pull the trigger. Is there anything I should know? Or will this be a decent keyboard for the price (which is amazing coming from Razer)?

I've seen the deck keyboards, but something about them turns me off. Maybe it's the font of the keys.


you can buy Blanks for the Deck Legend 105 and Deck 82.


----------



## ch_123

I know some pretty awesome desk lamps you can get for $50.


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay*


...how ugly it is.....your special arnt you?


matter of opinion. I personally don't really think its good looking, but I dont think its bad looking..


----------



## Velathawen

I hope we can get some of these in HK


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcbrite* 
Seems to work PERFECTLY fine for me... Just because a deck is more expensive, has a children's font and is 100 Gram heavier doesn't make it a better keyboard. Eventhough those were the arguments you used to justify wasting your money...

Someone from the computerbase forum has a Raptor K1 with cherry blacks, which is basically a simple cherry keyboard, and a Deck Keyboard with the same switches, and he said the switches of the Deck felt better. I don't say you should buy it, i'm just mentioning.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

a lot richer than him, but just not rich enough to afford a decent keyboard right


----------



## metallicamaster3

I just had to mega-clean this thread. Keep it civil, enough with the drama please!

Thank you!


----------



## EpicPie

I really want the ultimate one. Mech keyboards are massive <3 but I still like membrane keyboards since my fingers don't get tired so easily.


----------



## luvsan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *metallicamaster3*


I just had to mega-clean this thread. Keep it civil, enough with the drama please!

Thank you!


No thank you (not sarcastic, honest).

The bickering from people on here back and forth wasn't even amusing and contributed literally nothing to the topic.

/back to topic

I'm going to wait for a actual full review, but i think it might fill some nice price points.


----------



## Tatakai All

Well for me it's between the Ultimate Blackwidow and a UB9L.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Well for me it's between the Ultimate Blackwidow and a UB9L.


You've a month to sit on that then


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Well for me it's between the Ultimate Blackwidow and a UB9L.


if you are a student..i don mind getting the xarmor because 25% off is about $137 shipped from Xarmor website.
+ support NKRO which black widow don't.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
if you are a student..i don mind getting the xarmor because 25% off is about $137 shipped from Xarmor website.
+ support NKRO which black widow don't.

You guys need to remember that NKRO is impossible with USB. it can only be done with PS2. they way usb works and polls the device makes it impossible for NKRO. that u9BL even states on their website, and i quote "N-Key Rollover (PS/2 interface must be used for full n-key rollover)"

but it does look like a really nice keyboard. i must admit the U9BL looks nice. it is the first keyboard that has taken my atention off the razer. where can you buy it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

XArmor sell it themselves, or you can get it on Amazon.

And the U9BL is native PS/2 and comes with a passive PS/2-USB adapter.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
You guys need to remember that NKRO is impossible with USB. it can only be done with PS2. they way usb works and polls the device makes it impossible for NKRO. that u9BL even states on their website, and i quote "N-Key Rollover (PS/2 interface must be used for full n-key rollover)"

but it does look like a really nice keyboard. i must admit the U9BL looks nice. it is the first keyboard that has taken my atention off the razer. where can you buy it?

u can get it tru their website www.Xarmor-usa.com
if u are student u get 25% off.
and i found this site.
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...!#Availability
sell it for only $137.90 with free shipping. but out of stock. and it is order as needed.
kinda cool!


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
XArmor sell it themselves, or you can get it on Amazon.

And the U9BL is native PS/2 and comes with a passive PS/2-USB adapter.

i want this keyboard. i think i will go with it over the razer. it looks nicer and the native ps2 is awsome. this keyboard is intense! amazon you say? are there any other e-tailers that sell it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Also Fentek Industries. You may not have heard of them, but they make the OCN custom keycaps and a bunch of other keyboard related stuff. The proprietor is a good guy, he posts on Geekhack.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Here's the places to buy I know of:

XArmor

 Amazon

Fentek


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Here's the places to buy I know of:

XArmor
Amazon

Fentek

i tried to buy from the xarmor site and there is no way to enter a canadian adress, even tho they eccept canadian credit cards. looks like i will ahve tog o with the razer, i cant find anyone that is not sketchy to buy from that ships to canada.







too bad it wasnt on ebay


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
i tried to buy from the xarmor site and there is no way to enter a canadian adress, even tho they eccept canadian credit cards. looks like i will ahve tog o with the razer, i cant find anyone that is not sketchy to buy from that ships to canada.







too bad it wasnt on ebay









not to worry darling I know a retailer in Canada. HLTechnology has the iOne XArmor U9BL for $149 CAD.


----------



## BigT

very nice thanks! i was actually using a steelseries 7g this week and i really liked it. the NKRO on it was nice and native ps2. i may actually get that one. hard to decide! i do really like the palm rest on the 7g!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
very nice thanks! i was actually using a steelseries 7g this week and i really liked it. the NKRO on it was nice and native ps2. i may actually get that one. hard to decide! i do really like the palm rest on the 7g!

just get one of this?
 Amazon.com: 3M(TM) Wrist Rest for Keyboard, Antimicrobial, Gel, Large Size, Black: Office Products


----------



## cordawg92

PM me if you want to know how to get the Xarmor U9BL from a Canadian distributor. I don't think the place wants too many people buying them, but I think i can help a few guys out.


----------



## BigT

just got me a steelseries 7g today! and i love it!!!! its so nice. i love the feel of the keys. and it is FULL NKRO. native ps2 and all gold plated and black cherry keys rated at 50M. and it looks so nice and slick. sorry razer.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Hey y'all, I just got back from Singapore and managed to pick up a regular BlackWidow keyboard from a technology store. Just got it out of the box and am taking a look at it now.


----------



## ripster

Awesome. If you have time try the Microsoft Nkey test and see what happens.

Hold A hold S then X (diagonal move and comms)
WDE (diagonal move and open door)
SDC (diagonal move and try to crouch)
WAQ (diagonal move and toss grenade)
CTRL-AQ
ESDF combos
Arrow key combos


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tofurkeymeister* 
Hey y'all, I just got back from Singapore and managed to pick up a regular BlackWidow keyboard from a technology store. Just got it out of the box and am taking a look at it now.

Full pictures and a pic of the insides if possible.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Full pictures and a pic of the insides if possible.

Not full NKRO, but it is optimized. The QWEASD cluster is able to be pressed at once, so its fine for most people.

Also, the lettering is pad printed, and the cherry blues are nice to type on, coming from a buckling spring. The keycaps themselves feel to be of plastic, not rubber, and the function keys work as expected. It looks cool in my opinion, although I have yet to test the macro keys out. I will try to post pics later, but don't expect me to take off the case.


----------



## ripster

Not to be a pill or anything but could you be specific which of those combos failed?


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

My SLR is not available at the moment, so pics will have to come later. Here's a crappy one I took with my phone:










I have the regular version (no backlighting)

*NKRO Test:*
ASW - YES
ASX - YES
GHY - YES
ASDF - YES
JKL - YES
ERF - YES

In fact, _most_ realistic combinations have 3 key rollover, and a few have four. The QWEASD cluster has 6 key rollover.

Some combinations without 3-key:

CXI - NO
XVI - NO

And so forth... as you can see they aren't commonly used combinations.

P.S. Posted on geekhack, as well.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What about combos with the arrow keys?

up+left+Z
down+right+A
up+left+W+A

etc.

Those are used for games where two people use the same keyboard, and for games that use the arrow keys for motion, such as Cave Story, Altitude, and also older games like Might & Magic.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

As far as I can tell, arrows don't make a difference to n-key as long as you don't have more than 6 key's pressed at once (USB's limit).

ESDF players are in luck, all six keys in the WERSDF cluster can be pressed at once.

YUIHJK is six key as well for all you non-conformist southpaws out there.

P.S. Coming from a Model M, I'm now happy that I can walk forward while strafing while leaning in ARMA II. Also, a review may come, but this is only my second mechanical keyboard, so I can't judge it compared do other cherry blues. However, once I get my SLR back I'll try to do a mini-review of sorts.


----------



## ripster

That's actually quite impressive. I've always thought 6KRO was good enough for humans with 5 fingers. As long as it matches your gaming patterns it looks like Razer may have a winner here.


----------



## brodie337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


That's actually quite impressive. I've always thought 6KRO was good enough for humans with 5 fingers. As long as it matches your gaming patterns it looks like Razer may have a winner here.


Yeah, but it's not 6 key rollover, it's 2. I still think it's a bit of a letdown. I was hoping for a good all-round board in this one. It remains to be seen how the lettering is applied. If it's decent, I dunno, I might pick one up.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Tofurkeymeister said pad printing. Don't how good of pad printing, but take that for what it's worth.

The backlit version will probably have "cell phone" style keys like the XArmor U9BL.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

2 days ago I was roaming around the 5 story Funan Digital Life Mall in Singapore when I stumbled across a Razer Black Widow keyboard in one of the more "gaming" oriented stores. After finding nothing else of interest in the mall and being unsuccessful in haggling down the price of 40GB Intel SSD, I bought the keyboard.










The keyboard is presented in the sort of clean, 1337 box one would expect of Razer. Opening up the package reveals the keyboard along with a smagorgasm of papers: a master guide, a quick start guide, 2 Razer stickers, a "Certificate of Authenticity", and a product catalog.





































The keyboard itself carries over the clean, 1337 looks which are typical of Razer. Indeed, "1337" summarizes the main design theme of the keyboard, as is apparent in the angular lettering as well as the overglossy, fingerprint revealing keyboard shell. None the less, while the keyboard remains striking from afar, I find it not to be the most attractive of Razer's keyboards.









The build quality of the keyboard is high, with a braided USB cable as well as a hefty, sturdy design. The keycaps are textured and have an average level of wobble, but still feel durable.

The keyboard features a gentle slope of the keycaps which increases ergonomics, as does the slight incline of the area below the space bar, which makes for a convenient thumb rest. Two feet are present to increase the height of the keyboards if need be, with two (near indistinguishable) height settings.









The only concern I find is the junction between keyboard and cable which looks precarious, be sure to not rip the cord out by accident. Also, the m1-m5 keys are easy to hit when reaching for the right ctrl key.









The keycaps themselves appear to be made of an ABS-esque plastic with pad printed lettering. The lettering is not surrounded by the extended lettering pad associated with crappy OEM keyboards, as only the letters are printed. What is intriguing, however, is that within the lettering there is a fainter letter, which may be a form of semi-transparent material to allow light to pass through in the more expensive model. Overall, though, I find it difficult to determine the exact nature of the lettering printing process.









Moving on, we have the alternate lettering, which encompasses all the secondary functions (E.g. "!" instead of "1", ">" instead of ".", Volume Up instead of F3). This lettering is dark grey instead of white, and appears to be pad printed.









However, due to its color the lettering is difficult to make out in harsh light.









The switches of the keys are clicky and tactile, although I have yet to pry off a key to affirm what type they are (I really don't want to break the keyboard).Being my first clicky keyboard, I can appreciate the lightness of the keys when compared to the high force buckling spring mechanism of the Model M, which killed my wrists.

*Despite apperaing to be cherry blue switches,when I used the Rip-O-Meter tool, I got a measurement of 60g (12 nickels) on the "F" key, "[" key, and the spacebar! This is intriguing, given that the cherry blue switch is designed to actuate at 50g.*

What really makes the Blackwidow different from other mechanical keyboards, however, is not the switch type, but rather the software features. Out of the box, the function key is able to control the F-key commands of audio volume, media playback, and gaming mode (F11 - it disables the windows key). The F12 key combined with the function key changes the brightness of the razer logo on the bottom of the keyboard, it can be set to either low, medium, high, variable, or off.














































To get the benefit of macro keys the software must the installed. The interface is clean and 1337, and enables each individual key (including letters) to:

a. Be remapped to another key

b. Initiate a recorded Marco

c. Switch Profiles

d. Launch a program

This tool is incredibly useful, making the registry hackery of SharpKeys unnecessary.









The macros themselves may be carefully constructed with the software macro tool, which takes into account delays. Additionally, by pressing [Fn] + [Right ALT] the macro recording feature is enabled. Simply press [Fn] + [Right ALT], then the desired macro, then [Fn] + [Right ALT] again, and finally the key to map it to. This feature does require the software to be installed to function.









The LED num lock indicators are hidden are hidden underneath the plastic shell, and are very subtle when compared to the blinding LED's of other keyboards. Each indicator has the shape of the lock it corresponds to, "C" for Caps Lock, "S" for scroll lock, and "1" for Num Lock.









Finally, we have N-key rollover. The BlackWidow doesn't have full n-key rollover, but is optimized for gaming. As such, it is sufficient for _most_ gamers.

NKRO Test:
ASW - YES
ASX - YES
GHY - YES
ASDF - YES
JKL - YES
ERF - YES

In fact, most realistic combinations have 3 key rollover, and a few have four. The QWEASD, WERSDF, and YUIHJK cluster all have 6 key rollover.

Some combinations without 3-key:

CXI - NO
XVI - NO

And so forth... as you can see they aren't commonly used combinations.

Overall, I have to say that the Razer BlackWidow is a high quality, extremely functional product, especially given the $80 asking price. The apparent pad printing process raises concerns about the durability of the lettering, but at a price of $80 I would be hard beat to find a higher quality product. The Razer BlackWidow is definately worth a look for those looking to enter the mechanical keyboard game.


----------



## Ekemeister

K. The belkin n52te uses mechanical keys. If you know what to look for you can kind of see the switches when it's propped on the side. I think they may be cherry mx blue or clear, but I honestly could not decipher that far.

Gaming with Mechanical keys is awesome, period! If the the black widow stands up to all of razer's hype, then my lycosa is going into a x-mas gift box.

As a side-note, Glowing LED keys are pretty, yes I used "pretty", and thus worth the money.

+thumbs up: razer.
+thumbs down: remaking the lachesis right after I buy the original.


----------



## shnur

Hummm, finally a match for my G19








In process into switching over to Razer gear instead of Logitech...


----------



## Derp

Gotta love that shiny plastic razer loves putting on everything. It looks great until you actually use the damn thing and then you have smudges and finger/palm prints everywhere.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Derp* 
Gotta love that shiny plastic razer loves putting on everything. It looks great until you actually use the damn thing and then you have smudges and finger/palm prints everywhere.

Get some Novus for $12.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tofurkeymeister* 
Pictures, text, review

Good stuff









Just a quick suggestion: if you have a desk lamp, try pointing it up at the back wall and let the light naturally diffuse around your room, and turn off the large lamps that you have on your ceiling fan. It might help with the lighting situation and help you get a clearer shot of the Fn key printing


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Looks to be laser printed caps, not pad printed. I've got a board here with similar stylings.

Also, I love that they put that diagram of a 20-year-old NMB "space invader" switch on the actual retail packaging, rather than a diagram of a Cherry MX switch. Yay for doing your research.

The cord feeling like it could come out, and the shaping of it, point to iOne even more, since the U9BL was just the same there.

It's looking like when it comes to U9BL vs. BlackWidow Ultimate the only reason to get the BW is the macro keys since they're almost the same keyboard and most of Razer's changes have been for the worse.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Looks to be laser printed caps, not pad printed. I've got a board here with similar stylings.

Also, I love that they put that diagram of a 20-year-old NMB "space invader" switch on the actual retail packaging, rather than a diagram of a Cherry MX switch. Yay for doing your research.

The cord feeling like it could come out, and the shaping of it, point to iOne even more, since the U9BL was just the same there.

It's looking like when it comes to U9BL vs. BlackWidow Ultimate the only reason to get the BW is the macro keys since they're almost the same keyboard and most of Razer's changes have been for the worse.

True, but the regular version is a good deal at $80 in my opinion.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ekemeister* 
K. The belkin n52te uses mechanical keys. If you know what to look for you can kind of see the switches when it's propped on the side. I think they may be cherry mx blue or clear, but I honestly could not decipher that far.

Don't think so........








Not my pic and DEFINITELY not my toes


Unless it's mine.


----------



## gordesky1

cant wait too get my razer widow u on the 13th







And the key rollover looks great too me alot better than i expected.

Heck even on my abs m1 which is considered too have bad rollover i haven't ran into one problem with any key combo in any game i play which is pretty much every game lol


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Quote:



ASX (diagonal move and comms)
WDE (diagonal move and open door)
SDC (diagonal move and try to crouch)
WAQ (diagonal move and toss grenade)
CTRL-AQ (crawling and toss grenade)
ESDF variations with other keys (for ESDF players)
ARROW KEY cluster and a bunch of other keys (for you lefties)
CAPSLOCK-LSHIFT-S If you using the Capslock for CTRL this particular key combo can be a pain while doing some general software. Interestingly enough this key combo PASSES on Unicomp Spacesavers. Donâ€™t assume the behavior of all 2KRO keyboards are the same. In this case Unicomp must use a different matrix to pick up the Windows keys and so it fails WAX, a combo that passes in the IBM Model M.


All work except CTRL-AQ.

2 key rollover on the arrow keys.

Space bar doesn't effect rollover much when compared to without spacebar.

And... well, I can't test everything. It has better n-key than a typical keyboard, but it is definitely not n-key and optimization is pretty much limited to the WASD and equivalent clusters, excluding the arrow keys.

Here are some vids, sorry for the low quality, crappy point and shoot:

http://vimeo.com/15310670

http://vimeo.com/15310683

http://vimeo.com/15310711

http://vimeo.com/15310727

http://vimeo.com/15310734

Also, typing is what I guess you would expect from a cherry blue, in my opinion it would make a better typing than gaming keyboard.

Finally, I suppose that it is laser engraved, especially when I look at it under magnification.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tofurkeymeister*


Also, typing is what I guess you would expect from a cherry blue, in my opinion it would make a better typing than gaming keyboard.


amen


----------



## BigT

its nice too see pictures of this, and a bit of a review. good job. it looks like a very nice keyboard. there are only two things i didnt like about it that made me get the 7G. i do not like the short palm rest on the razer, and the lack of a palm rest extension (i HATE seperate palm rests that are not attached to the keyboard) and i do not like the macro keys. i do not use macro keys and i like a keyboard that looks simple clean and slick with no added tumors hanging off my keyboard. i dont even like extra media keys. i like the idea of a FN key and haveing the media keys on the F keys. keeps everything looking simple.

i do love the back light on the razer tho it is very nice. looks great.

its too bad they didnt make it native ps2 or able to work with a ps2 adaptor for NKRO. that is kind of a nice feature.

Looks great tho, and looks like a solid buy for the money.


----------



## ripster

6KRO for the $129 version at least would have been nice. I mouse righthanded and have only 5 fingers on my left.


----------



## fssbzz

i still rather go for Rosewill RK-9000.still not sure if they really NKRO.
or Xarmor with student discount which only cost $137 shipped.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i still rather go for Rosewill RK-9000.still not sure if they really NKRO.
or Xarmor with student discount which only cost $137 shipped.

More like $130 shipped to anyone, and $117 shipped to students. Price drop.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Full pictures and a pic of the insides if possible.

wow! Thanks!
NICE to know that!


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i still rather go for Rosewill RK-9000.still not sure if they really NKRO.
or Xarmor with student discount which only cost $137 shipped.

the rosewill does look like aa decent keyboard. you can get it at newegg right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

but remember you can only have NKRO with PS2. this is for every keyboard. it is impossible with usb because of the way the computer polls the device on the USB. that is why alot of people like steelseries are makeing their NKRO boards with native ps2 and adding a usb adaptor, incase you do not have ps2.

as stated on the rosewill site:

N-Key rollover: 104 Key could press at the same time, avoid any key jamming (Only PS2 mode, at USB Mode 6-key rollover)

looks good tho. there are a few reviews of it on other forums. looks to be a solid board, it even says on the roswill site that it has a red metal plate in it. i like the ones with metal plates they do not felx ever and they weigh alot and dont move around on you.


----------



## Yoko Littner

Mech board's suck..








it's so..... mid 90's


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoko Littner* 
Mech board's suck..








it's so..... mid 90's











Be less obvious next time. Might as well have walked into a room full of AMD fans and said "lol ati driverrs sux r shadres r bettr"


----------



## Yoko Littner

Not trolling.

Just im not a fan of mech boards...

Who the hell is the chick on that lamesauce sign?

and BTW ati driver's do suck.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Be less obvious next time. Might as well have walked into a room full of AMD fans and said "lol ati driverrs sux r shadres r bettr"

I'm an AMD fan and I still hate ATI's drivers.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoko Littner* 
Not trolling.

Just im not a fan of mech boards...

Who the hell is the chick on that lamesauce sign?

and BTW ati driver's do suck.

Not a fan of mechanical keyboards =/= mechanical keyboards suck.

I don't like Cherry MX black switches. Does that mean I should also go "Cherry MX black switches suck"?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
I don't like Cherry MX black switches. Does that mean I should also go "Cherry MX black switches suck"?

Yes. That's the type of logic you're supposed to use on the internet, didn't you know that?

Opinion always = fact.


----------



## BigT

Opinion always = fact LOL!!

i think alot of people take that statement too seriously!

the reason there are so many keyboards and so many pieces of hardware is because no two people are the same and everyone will like something different. just keep that in mind. this razer will be the perfect board for alot of people and for others it wont. some of us will love mechanical keyboards and others will think it is old tech from the mid 90's









has anyone taken apart the razer, i was woundering if they used a metal plate in that thing. it is one heavy keyboard so it might.

This is off topic but most things on this thread are. whats wrong with the ati drivers?? they are nice and simple and work really well for me. never had a problem and all of the eyefinity options work REWALLY well.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
Opinion always = fact LOL!!

i think alot of people take that statement too seriously!

the reason there are so many keyboards and so many pieces of hardware is because no two people are the same and everyone will like something different. just keep that in mind. this razer will be the perfect board for alot of people and for others it wont. some of us will love mechanical keyboards and others will think it is old tech from the mid 90's









has anyone taken apart the razer, i was woundering if they used a metal plate in that thing. it is one heavy keyboard so it might.

This is off topic but most things on this thread are. whats wrong with the ati drivers?? they are nice and simple and work really well for me. never had a problem and all of the eyefinity options work REWALLY well.

iOne's keyboards use a metal plate yes, though it isn't as thick or heavy as the one in a Costar board.


----------



## Oculata

I have to say Razer's keyboard got me interested in Mechanical keyboards and now I'm looking to get one.

Right now I'm debating this and the Steelseries 6Gv2. Any recommendations. The backlight is certainly neat but I can do without, and as far as the microphone and USB jacks go it's not worth the 50 bucks either.

At this point really the only thing left is the switch type. I game quite a bit, but also type a ton out of game at home for engineering reports and such. Any insight on what the blacks are like to type on regularly? I hear the Blue's are better but I'm a much larger SteelSeries fan and the build quality of the 6Gv2 looks fantastic.

Unfortunately I doubt I'll have the option to test the difference between blue and blacks in person.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'd pick the XArmor U9BL over the Razer. Basically the same thing but without the idiotic cop-outs that Razer used to save costs while giving their marketing manager a boner. It's a $130 from http://xarmor-usa.com


----------



## Oculata

Yeah, the XArmor definitely looks like the better choice over the Razer. In terms of asthetics and not looking like it will amass fingerprints as well as likely build quality.

So in comparing the XArmor and the 6Gv2, my question still stands though. I type quite a bit apart from gaming. What are the blacks like to type on in a non-gaming setting. Are they sufficient or do the blues really have an advantage? Honestly the only bells and whistles that interest me are the backlighting.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I haven't used MX blacks. However, in my experience MX blues feel good enough that even random strangers using the keyboard say, "Wow, this feels nice."


----------



## Cata1yst

i think at 80$ its more attractive than its competitors.
I personally prefer a keyboard with a barrel style volume controller, but thats just a small niggle.

Ill have to wait for a review and see how it goes, im tied of my pathetic half size backspace key on my antec.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


but remember you can only have NKRO with PS2. this is for every keyboard. it is impossible with usb because of the way the computer polls the device on the USB. that is why alot of people like steelseries are makeing their NKRO boards with native ps2 and adding a usb adaptor, incase you do not have ps2.


Why is SteelSeries latest Gaming keyboard, the SHIFT then USB only?









Is it because they will say anything to sell keyboards?


----------



## Bullveyr

Where do they say anything about NKRO on the Shift?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*


Where do they say anything about NKRO on the Shift?


They don't have to; at most USB only supports 6KRO


----------



## ripster

I was talking about this from the 6GV2 web page.

Technically this all B.S.

Quote:



USB OR PS/2?

The 6Gv2 is built with a USB as standard, but we also included a USB to PS/2 adapter in the box. The choice is yours.

We absolutely recommend using the PS/2 connector when possible.

...(NKRO blah blah blah)....

And, equally as important, using the PS/2 may just improve your overall gaming experience. The reason is that when you use a USB keyboard your computer is actually using CPU time polling your keyboard. The higher the polling rate the more CPU time is used to perform the polling. And because of the built-in debounce rate found on any quality keyboard, any polling rate above 200Hz is simply a waste of CPU time and really just a result of pointless marketing hype. Unlike USB keyboards a PS/2 keyboard isn't polled at all. The keyboard simply sends a signal to the computer as key presses are made, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register the signal.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that many people need more than 6 key rollover.


----------



## ripster

The SHIFT will undoubtedly be 2KRO. All rubber dome keyboards I've seen are 2KRO. To make it sound better they'll call it "Gamer Optimized".


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tofurkeymeister* 
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that many people need more than 6 key rollover.

Bragging rights. It IS OCN.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
The SHIFT will undoubtedly be 2KRO. All rubber dome keyboards I've seen are 2KRO. To make it sound better they'll call it "Gamer Optimized".

My g19 is 6kro atleast it register 6keys at once with that kro meter at geekhack
Yes on usb


----------



## ripster

Have you taken "Statistics 101" yet? NKRO where N is the MINIMUM number correctly registered, not MAXIMUM (any keyboard can do up to 8 keys on USB). In the heat of fire you want a guarantee the keypress sequence will work.

Try squashing the arrow keys with RCTRL, RSHIFT and other stuff. That usual fraks the G series. The Microsoft R&D test is a bit screwed up because it doesn't distinguish between RSHIFT and LSHIFT.


----------



## ripster

BTW Steelseries is correct about this.

Quote:

any polling rate above 200Hz is simply a waste of CPU time and really just a result of pointless marketing hype.
From Razer Black Widow website.

Quote:

Q. What is Ultrapolling?
A. Ultrapolling is a technology developed by Razer that heightens the frequency at which the keyboard reports actuation information back to the computer. The reduction in interval between each transmission of data down to a blistering 1 millisecond results in more responsive execution of the user's commands on the keyboard.
Dueling Marketing Departments - I suggest being careful what you read.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Now that the XArmor U9BL dropped in price it looks more tempting. Still unsure how much I will like blues for gaming tho.


----------



## lmnop

next thing you know they will create "uberpolling" adjust the polling rate with your brain <puts on her constipated face>


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


Now that the XArmor U9BL dropped in price it looks more tempting. Still unsure how much I will like blues for gaming tho.


Blacks are nice for gameing. i would like to try browns for gameing. and i think reds would be really nice but i think you can only get those in cherry keyboards. and to get those of ebay costs ALOT of money.


----------



## lmnop

it doesn't cost a lot. $177. the seller has sold over 17 of them in a short period.


----------



## BigT

i guess that is not too bad really, but i have a 7g now and i love it. i think the palm rest is soo cool. my hand never gets cramped when gameing now! i am a bodybuilder and i tend to press my keys alot harder than i realize, so the blacks work out really well for me. they are no effort really. i was more curious than anythign about the reds. at most i think i woudl like to type on one jsut to see how it is.


----------



## Izdaari

Hmm. I love the feel of a good mechanical keyboard, but I don't think I'd especially care for typing on the Blacks. Cherry Blues sound good, and it's purty. I like playing in the dark, and I'm not so perfect a typist that I never need to look, so I want illuminated. NKRO isn't a big deal to me, not being that kind of gamer: I'm more into RPG's and strategy games than shooters, so "gamer optimized" would be probably be good enough for my purposes. This Razer looks like a serious candidate for me.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The Razer has only one advantage of the U9BL, and that's the six macro keys. XArmor isn't going to stand still for that either though, and I should know.

Also, "gaming optimized" means optimized for FPS games. Razer fails when working on the left and right sides of QWERTY at the same time, for instance.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shnur*


Hummm, finally a match for my G19








In process into switching over to Razer gear instead of Logitech...


But there are much better mechanical keyboards out there. I'm sorry, but I may never recommend the BlackWidow keyboards to anyone.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Looks to be laser printed caps, not pad printed. I've got a board here with similar stylings.

Also, I love that they put that diagram of a 20-year-old NMB "space invader" switch on the actual retail packaging, rather than a diagram of a Cherry MX switch. Yay for doing your research.

The cord feeling like it could come out, and the shaping of it, point to iOne even more, since the U9BL was just the same there.

It's looking like when it comes to U9BL vs. BlackWidow Ultimate the only reason to get the BW is the macro keys since they're almost the same keyboard and most of Razer's changes have been for the worse.


This.

Just... THIS. Heh. Seriously, I think that both BlackWidows are a waste of money since there are better keyboards out there - especially for gaming. The only reason why they chose the Cherry MX Blues is because of how different they are from rubber domes. People will say "whoa, this *is* different! I can even hear a little mechanical click! Holy crap! This is amazing! This is awesome new technology!"

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


its nice too see pictures of this, and a bit of a review. good job. it looks like a very nice keyboard. there are only two things i didnt like about it that made me get the 7G. i do not like the short palm rest on the razer, and the lack of a palm rest extension (i HATE seperate palm rests that are not attached to the keyboard) and i do not like the macro keys. i do not use macro keys and i like a keyboard that looks simple clean and slick with no added tumors hanging off my keyboard. i dont even like extra media keys. i like the idea of a FN key and haveing the media keys on the F keys. keeps everything looking simple.

i do love the back light on the razer tho it is very nice. looks great.

its too bad they didnt make it native ps2 or able to work with a ps2 adaptor for NKRO. that is kind of a nice feature.

Looks great tho, and looks like a solid buy for the money.


But a keyboard must have full NKRO in the first place in order to have full NKRO when using PS/2. :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Yoko Littner*


Mech board's suck..








it's so..... mid 90's


Could you PLEASE stop trolling?

Ignorance never shows much reason!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Have you taken "Statistics 101" yet? NKRO where N is the MINIMUM number correctly registered, not MAXIMUM (any keyboard can do up to 8 keys on USB). In the heat of fire you want a guarantee the keypress sequence will work.

Try squashing the arrow keys with RCTRL, RSHIFT and other stuff. That usual fraks the G series. The Microsoft R&D test is a bit screwed up because it doesn't distinguish between RSHIFT and LSHIFT.











This is why I always say "full NKRO" instead of just "NKRO".







I just wish everyone would follow my example.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izdaari*


Hmm. I love the feel of a good mechanical keyboard, but I don't think I'd especially care for typing on the Blacks. Cherry Blues sound good, and it's purty. I like playing in the dark, and I'm not so perfect a typist that I never need to look, so I want illuminated. NKRO isn't a big deal to me, not being that kind of gamer: I'm more into RPG's and strategy games than shooters, so "gamer optimized" would be probably be good enough for my purposes. This Razer looks like a serious candidate for me.


Try to keep looking. There are much better mechanical keyboards for gaming than both of these BlackWidows - namely a good quality mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns. But the reason why Razer didn't use the Browns is because then people who are new to mechanical keyboards would be disappointed and say _"Meh, what's the big deal? It doesn't feel that much different from rubber domes"_. But even more important is that the Cherry MX Blues make a subtle mechanical click. So those newbies will just go _"Whoa!! Listen to that! That's amazing!"
_


----------



## Phaedrus2129

NKRO is NKRO.

I still like my terminology, we don't have to bother with the protocol limitations so NKRO over PS/2 and 6KRO over USB were classed together.


----------



## Izdaari

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Try to keep looking. There are much better mechanical keyboards for gaming than both of these BlackWidows - namely a good quality mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns. But the reason why Razer didn't use the Browns is because then people who are new to mechanical keyboards would be disappointed and say _"Meh, what's the big deal? It doesn't feel that much different from rubber domes"_. But even more important is that the Cherry MX Blues make a subtle mechanical click. So those newbies will just go _"Whoa!! Listen to that! That's amazing!"
_

Well, I've been using mechanical keyboards for a long time, though I never paid much attention to the details, and most of them came from thrift stores. If someone made a old skool IBM Model M copy in black, full-size with backlit keys, that'd suit me just fine. I _like_ noisy "clicky" though I don't insist on it.

I did read at least most of the monster mechanical keyboard thread... and I think Blues, Browns, Reds and Topres would all suit me well enough, but Topres and Reds are too expensive (I won't pay more than $150, and that's pushing it), so that leaves Blues and Browns.

What would you suggest for someone like me, oh great master of mechanical keyboards?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The U9BL. It doesn't have exactly the same feel as an IBM keyboard, but the MX blues are close. Backlit, standard layout, decent build quality, etc. Ripster and lmnop bash it occasionally, but they haven't actually used one, and famous GeekHacker Ricercar says it's his most-used keyboard now (I traded my review sample for his last NIB MX SPOS kb).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izdaari*


Well, I've been using mechanical keyboards for a long time, though I never paid much attention to the details, and most of them came from thrift stores. If someone made a old skool IBM Model M copy in black, full-size with backlit keys, that'd suit me just fine. I _like_ noisy "clicky" though I don't insist on it.

I did read at least most of the monster mechanical keyboard thread... and I think Blues, Browns, Reds and Topres would all suit me well enough, but Topres and Reds are too expensive (I won't pay more than $150, and that's pushing it), so that leaves Blues and Browns.

What would you suggest for someone like me, oh great master of mechanical keyboards?










hehe wut I'm just a guy who has nothing better to do.









Anyway, lol, if gaming is a big priority, then try to get recommendations for a good mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns.







Otherwise either the Blues or Browns are great!


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Yoko Littner*


Not trolling.

Just im not a fan of mech boards...

Who the hell is the chick on that lamesauce sign?

and BTW ati driver's do suck.


Then obviously your opinion doesn't count for ****e anyway... That's one of the dumbest comments I ever read...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


Then obviously your opinion doesn't count for ****e anyway... That's one of the dumbest comments I ever read...


It's like when I was like 6 or 8 years old: I said I didn't like pizza, but yet I never tried it. I was afraid to try it because it looked very different from my favorite foods. But then one day I finally tried it, and then I couldn't get enough of it!

It's the same way with mechanical keyboards: before I got my mechanical keyboard, I wanted a dead silent keyboard with media keys, a USB port, backlighting, a real volume knob, a mute button, etc. But I ended up with pretty much the opposite, and I can't get enough of it. I love my keyboard! But I was afraid to try this keyboard because it looked very different from the kind of keyboard I was looking for!


----------



## Izdaari

Thank you both! Good advice, which I'll take into consideration when I'm looking for a keyboard. That's probably several months away, since I need a new GPU and stuff like that first, but I do want one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izdaari*


Thank you both! Good advice, which I'll take into consideration when I'm looking for a keyboard. That's probably several months away, since I need a new GPU and stuff like that first, but I do want one.


Omg, I just noticed. Good call! The mechanical keyboard can certainly wait!


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's like when I was like 6 or 8 years old: I said I didn't like pizza, but yet I never tried it. I was afraid to try it because it looked very different from my favorite foods. But then one day I finally tried it, and then I couldn't get enough of it!

It's the same way with mechanical keyboards: before I got my mechanical keyboard, I wanted a dead silent keyboard with media keys, a USB port, backlighting, a real volume knob, a mute button, etc. But I ended up with pretty much the opposite, and I can't get enough of it. I love my keyboard! But I was afraid to try this keyboard because it looked very different from the kind of keyboard I was looking for!


Exactly... My current keyboard look like it's from 1981... But it has Cherry blues and feels amazing, I love it...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


Exactly... My current keyboard look like it's from 1981... But it has Cherry blues and feels amazing, I love it...


1981?

















Might be better if you said 1986:









Or 199X


----------



## TwoCables

Yeah, to the uninitiated/innocently ignorant, mechanical keyboards can seem archaic and extremely out-dated - as if they are old technology that is inferior to today's rubber domes.


----------



## Izdaari

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Omg, I just noticed. Good call! The mechanical keyboard can certainly wait!


Heh. I deliberately finished the new build with a weaker, cheaper GPU than I wanted in order to finish it at all without a long wait while I saved up money. But no worries, I'll order a 5850 or maybe a 470 within the next 2-3 weeks.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Not sure if this came up yet, but Rosewill (the makers of the ABS M1) just came out with a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches (the kind used in the Razer BW) for $70 or so.

Pretty good alternative to those who want a cheaper keyboard and don't care for backlighting or macros.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Yeah, the Rosewill is a pretty good price, but everyone shouldn't discount the cheaper Razer. For back-lighting, you're better off not getting the BlackWidow, but the regular black widow is pretty decent for the price. That being said, the Rosewill is likely a better deal over the BlackWidow, but the BlackWidow isn't crap by any means (unlike the other Razer keyboards).


----------



## lmnop

the Rosewill RK-9000 has been out for a while but it's had some stock issues. it won't change anything until it takes a price cut. there are cheaper alternatives and people are still going to pay extra for a Filco Majestouch because of the matte finish and brand name.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Rosewill RK-9000 has been out for a while but it's had some stock issues. it won't change anything until it takes a price cut. there are cheaper alternatives and people are still going to pay extra for a Filco Majestouch because of the matte finish and brand name.


It's going to be on sale for ~$80 if this post is right starting October 11th.

I got mine for $72 but that deal is gone.

Right now they ARE selling it for $108 shipped with a free $40 ABS Gaming headset.


----------



## lmnop

I said price cut not sale!







look at the reviews for the ABS headphones.


----------



## Tofurkeymeister

Off topic thread is off topic.


----------



## lmnop

call someone who cares


----------



## shnur

Thanks TwoCables for specifying that; although I'd really need a more or less good looking keyboard and it seems hard to find


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
call someone who cares

Geekhack.org has a good post on the Razer Mechanical including unboxing pics here.

Edit. Whoops, that was the Razer one. The Rosewill one is here.


----------



## BigT

i love how off topic this thread is sometimes. it has become a thread where we compare all other mechanical keyboards to this razer.

lol, nice.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tofurkeymeister*


Yeah, the Rosewill is a pretty good price, but everyone shouldn't discount the cheaper Razer. For back-lighting, you're better off not getting the BlackWidow, but the regular black widow is pretty decent for the price. That being said, the Rosewill is likely a better deal over the BlackWidow, but the BlackWidow isn't crap by any means (unlike the other Razer keyboards).


But in comparison to other mechanical keyboards in these two price ranges, the BlackWidows end up not being all that great - especially as gaming keyboards due to having the Cherry MX Blues. But they had to choose the Cherry MX Blues because these are the most different; anyone who is new to mechanical keyboards will be blown away by the BlackWidow because they'll not only feel the difference, but they'll _hear _it which will knock their socks off. Most people will probably think that it's a new switch technology that Razer developed.









Every serious gamer is going to hate the BlackWidow thanks to the Cherry MX Blues; the reset point is higher in the key travel than the actuation point.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Rosewill RK-9000 has been out for a while but it's had some stock issues. it won't change anything until it takes a price cut. there are cheaper alternatives and people are still going to pay extra for a Filco Majestouch because of the matte finish and brand name.


But the RK-9000 has the same finish.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shnur*


Thanks TwoCables for specifying that; although I'd really need a more or less good looking keyboard and it seems hard to find











But form follows function; looks aren't everything.

When I was shopping for a new keyboard, I wanted to get a really nice-looking keyboard too. I wanted it to have awesome backlighting as well as aggressive styling so that it really stood out and was a real pleasure to look at (I also wanted a host of useless features). So, I made a thread asking OCN to help. But in the end, I bought something *far* superior to what I was asking for: the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. Not only is it a mechanical keyboard, and not only does it have a far superior build quality to any rubber dome keyboard that I was thinking about getting, but I love the way it looks. I have never seen a photo that does it justice; I believe that not even Marin could do it justice. It's just pure class. It looks like a very mature keyboard.









So yeah, I ended up with a keyboard that doesn't have any media keys, no USB hub (not even one port), no backlighting, no fancy styling, no extra gaming keys, and no driver or special software. Without considering its fantastic build quality, the really classy mature appearance, and the fact that it's a mechanical keyboard, it is basically nothing more than a simple and basic keyboard. But when considering all of those things, it's *much* more than just a simple keyboard.

In other words: one might say that I didn't get what I want. Technically, that is true; I _didn't_ get what I wanted, but I'm extremely grateful that I didn't!


----------



## Rankiz

So according to some guys Blackwidow sucks balls for gamign and will not be better than my Saitek Eclipse II :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rankiz*


So according to some guys Blackwidow sucks balls for gamign and will not be better than my Saitek Eclipse II :/


Oh, it'll be better. But the Cherry MX Blue key switch is the "worst" mechanical switch for gaming due to the reset point being higher up in the key travel than the actuation point. Plus, there are better mechanical keyboards for the price of both BlackWidows.


----------



## ripster

Just to provide a counterpoint since the sheep seem to be ready to stampede. From the OP (Original Post).

Quote:



3. OMG/WTH/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same - blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs. So we picked the Blues intentionally from the get go. We went through a design cycle with each of the different switches and our ergo team together with our pool of pro gamers went through extensive validation of the Blues - we came up with 2 real conclusions, 1. It's a question of preference of each user primarily and 2. There's a lot of marketing bullcrap and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.

We finally picked the Blues over the others like the blacks after the testing/validation that we did over the past couple of years- the data was pretty clear to us. The biggest downside to the Blues was the sound - but the other features were huge winners - and the data we collated from hundreds of pro/amateur gamers indicated that the tactile and clicky Blues provided a significant advantage to the gamers as opposed to those that used other switches (though we wouldn't recommend LAN centers to kit up on the Razer BlackWidows, it would drive everyone crazy). A few people here also brought up the release point of the blue switches being higher than the actuation point by a fraction of a millimeter requiring you to release it fully to ensure a re-actuation. This was also one of the issues that we had tested extensively internally with our test robots as well as with our pro-gamers and this was addressed as part of our design. The Blues do provide a better switch mechanism for gaming (although it depends on your preference at the end of the day too). Don't take our word for it, give the Razer BlackWidow a go - you may just realize that you prefer the Blues at the end of the day.


----------



## TwoCables

omg Razer just won't quit. It's not a fraction of a millimeter. There are also several dozen posts in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide alone (if not a few hundred) by people saying that the Cherry MX Blues are noticeably worse for them while gaming than even the Cherry MX Browns due to the reset and actuation points.

I wish they would just be honest and say that they chose the Cherry MX Blues because the mechanical click alone will be impressive enough to newbies thereby causing them to be so impressed that they buy the keyboard without hesitation.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Just to provide a counterpoint since the sheep seem to be ready to stampede. From the OP (Original Post).


I don't know, most people against the keyboard have used Cherry MX Blues before, and unlike Razer, don't have a financial interest in seeing this keyboard succeed. I'd take the criticism of the so-called "sheep" over Razer's any day.


----------



## ripster

I can point to just as many posts saying the Cherry Blues are fine for gaming at OCN. I think it's best to let people decide if the Razer is right for them based on a variety of factors and inputs and not be a sheepherder.

From Phaedrus's Xarmor review.

Quote:



I'd like to bring up the topic of switches for gaming again. MX blues have a reputation for being horrible for gaming, and I think this is unfair. Many people game on MX blue keyboards just fine. However, they do affect some gamers. The sharp tactile point can be a hindrance to fast reaction, and the fact that the switch resets above where it actuates means that the switch has to come almost all the way back up before you can press it again, which can make some double tapping techniques extremely difficult. I've found that it does affect my gameplay when playing against other people or against smart AI. Not a huge difference, but it is there.


----------



## TwoCables

And since the Cherry MX Blues have a history of negatively impacting the gaming for some people, Razer should have at least used the Cherry MX Browns. But they didn't because they know that the mechanical click alone is going to impress people enough so that they buy their BlackWidows without thinking twice. They'll say _"Whoa. This really IS different from my G15!!"_


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


And since the Cherry MX Blues have a history of negatively impacting the gaming for some people, Razer should have at least used the Cherry MX Browns. But they didn't because they know that the mechanical click alone is going to impress people enough so that they buy their BlackWidows without thinking twice. They'll say _"Whoa. This really IS different from my G15!!"_


I've got to agree with this as well. Razer isn't trying to appeal to people like us, but to your "average" gamer, and more likely than not, Average Joe has never heard of a mechanical keyboard before. I think that Razer chose the blues simply to truly differentiate the BW from typical rubber domes with the click.

And I'm one of the people who dislikes Blues for gaming. I got my MX Brown keyboard before trying out the blues, so now I'm accustomed to the actuation point and only pressing down/up relative to that point. When I tried out the Blues after being so used to my browns, I had issues double tapping as well.

My theory is that for people who are getting blues for the first time from rubber domes (and are used to bottoming out/waiting for the key to reset fully), double tapping won't be an issue. For people who've used mechanical keyboards and judge everything based on the tactile actuation point, they're more likely to have issues double tapping.


----------



## ripster

I think you mean "riding the activation point". Double tapping is just hitting the key multiple times. You can do that with rubber domes.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I think you mean "riding the activation point". Double tapping is just hitting the key multiple times. You can do that with rubber domes.


That was it. The terminology escaped me


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I think you mean "riding the activation point". Double tapping is just hitting the key multiple times. You can do that with rubber domes.


Do you play any games where you have to double-tap in order to dodge?

Do you play any games where you have to quickly change strafing direction from left to right or right to left?

Do you work really hard on your gaming technique in order to maximize your speed and accuracy?

The majority of people who answer "no" to the last question but "yes" to one of the first two questions (or both) might have no problem with the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. However, there are still casual gamers who have problems with these areas on the Cherry MX Blues and therefore prefer to game on something else. Some get another mechanical keyboard while others just continue using their rubber dome in order to avoid spending extra money. Others return their keyboard right away and get a mechanical board with perhaps the Cherry MX Browns.

For me, I have absolutely zero problems with the Cherry MX Blues. But my technique is also very sloppy. If I were to be as serious about gaming as I am about my drumming, then I would absolutely hate the Cherry MX Blues just as much as I hate playing on an electronic drum set. Just in case you're wondering, electronic drum sets are very limiting.


----------



## Cata1yst

Ive played the piano for over 10 years and i know how to feel and put power through my fingers and wrists (dont go anywhere with that)

I honestly cannot tell the difference when the actuation point hits. Maybe its because ive only tried alps blues and whites, but the only thing i can notice is the initial resistance, and i noticed with whites its very easy to push keys down, and in gaming thats not a good thing to me personally. either way i come extroidinarily close if not bottoming out. its not something that i pay attention to, i type fast enough as it is, so whatever i gain by playing around with switch types im honestly unsure of the benefits.


----------



## gordesky1

I don't know about anybuddy else but im glad they used cherry blues







I wouldn't preordered the black widow if it came with browns or any other switches.

Always wanted too try them and me when i game which im into gaming alot and really into it i always leave the keys release fully before hitting them again so i don't see it being a problem for me.

And so far razer never disappointed me, And i have too admit having macros on a keyboard again is gonna be a good feature for me sense i been using macros alot lately like on my warmouse. When i went too the gateway anykey keyboard from today crap rubberdomes i used the macros alot lol

I was gonna looking at the Xarmor which is also another nice keyboard but wanted too give razer a chance, And the deck too but don't think i would like the switches it has..

NKRO isn't a problem for me sense i still haven't had a combo that i couldn't do in any game i play and i have the abs m1 which i still think is a great keyboard, Haven't had a problem yet on it. And for the filcos and rosewill keyboards, I know They great keyboards and im sure they better than the abs m1, But i find it hard spending 100 too 100+ for them and they just look like the abs m1 and pretty much have no extra features except the different switch types and NKRO.

But ya thats me lol

Also im not a fanboy of razer or anything sense i do have a mix of peripherals and i do like my warmouse way better than the razers i had which is the razer mamba which got replaced by it, And other 2 razer i have which is the razer orochi which still get used sense its a awesome mouse for mobile and my old diamond back plasma.


----------



## jprovido

just pre ordered them. my razer lycoza is terrible. I always have to reinsert it on the USB port because all the time some keys don't work argh


----------



## BigT

I dont know why i hear about people haveing problems with their lycosa keyboards. i have had mine for a while now and never had a single problem. infact i will go as far as saying that it was one of the best ruber dome keyboards that i have ever owned. it was a tie between my lycosa and saitek II. the only reason i replaced my lycosa is because i wanted a nice mechanical keyboard for the new feel.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
I dont know why i hear about people haveing problems with their lycosa keyboards. i have had mine for a while now and never had a single problem. infact i will go as far as saying that it was one of the best ruber dome keyboards that i have ever owned. it was a tie between my lycosa and saitek II. the only reason i replaced my lycosa is because i wanted a nice mechanical keyboard for the new feel.

No matter the company, QC can never be 100% accurate.


----------



## mcbrite

I own blacks, blues and even reds....

I use the blues exclusively right now, yes, also for gaming...


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mcbrite*


I own blacks, blues and even reds....

I use the blues exclusively right now, yes, also for gaming...


how do you like the reds. they are the ones i am most interested in. i LOVE my blacks, but since reds are like blacks that require less presure i think they sound really interesting. do you find them too easy to press down in gameing?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


how do you like the reds. they are the ones i am most interested in. i LOVE my blacks, but since reds are like blacks that require less presure i think they sound really interesting. do you find them too easy to press down in gameing?


I personally owned the Red's and while they were better than blacks for typing; I didn't enjoy them as much as I thought I would.

I think if you like the Blacks, but want a more typing oriented key then you should look at getting a board with Cherry MX-Clears like the Deck Legend Tactile boards.

It's a Cherry MX-Brown mechanism with a Cherry MX-Black spring.


----------



## gonX

So clears are just browns with stiffer springs? I thought the browns were already pretty stiff...


----------



## thiru

Browns are lighter than blues.


----------



## BigT

i am 100% happy with my blacks, i like the light sound they have, and the linear feel. pluss i have a habit of hitting my keys really hard. i dont often know my own strength. so the blacks are great for me. longets life, and to me they feel efortless to press. and it is nice that my 7g has a steel plate in it. because i need a keyboard that is made with steel!!!

i am juts a really curious person, and woundered what reds felt like, thats all. but i still dont understand why no one makes keyboards with them???? does anyone else find this wierd? or is it just me?


----------



## mcbrite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


how do you like the reds. they are the ones i am most interested in. i LOVE my blacks, but since reds are like blacks that require less presure i think they sound really interesting. do you find them too easy to press down in gameing?



They are fantastic for FPS... For, say, Starcraft 2 I guess you couldn't get better than the Blues for the instant "click-feedback"... When you hear/feel the click you KNOW the command is executed...

Reds are great for FPS and even decent for typing... The only minor problem with them is the following:

Depending on your application you might see a slight increase of "miss-clicks"... i.e. you'll may find yourself actuating a wrong key every now and then since they are so light...

If you're serious about FPS there is no substitute... Example: I play BFBC2 and jump around on the edges of rooftops with pure grace... :-D The precision of movement using reds in FPS is just fantastic!

Having said that, overall I prefer the blues since they are great for typing, great for RTS and VERY decent for FPS...

I guess it comes down to me being to lazy to change my keyboard every time I wanna play some FPS...


----------



## BigT

ohh ic! thanks for that. i know this is even mroe off topic (not that i really care) but what red keyboard do you actually have, is it a cherry, and is it native ps2 or usb?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

G80-3494 is the only common keyboard with MX reds.


----------



## lmnop

the 3494 and 3600 are the only mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Red switches. both are native USB that include a PS/2 adapter.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


So clears are just browns with stiffer springs? I thought the browns were already pretty stiff...


Are you sure those were browns you've used? Browns are the lightest switch I've ever used. It's noticably lighter than blues, and just leaps and bounds lighter than the Alps switches in the ABS M1.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the 3494 and 3600 are the only mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Red switches. both are native USB that include a PS/2 adapter.


Clever Chinese. May have something to do with all those old PCs over there.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the 3494 and 3600 are the only mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Red switches. both are native USB that include a PS/2 adapter.

what is the difference between those two boards?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
So clears are just browns with stiffer springs? I thought the browns were already pretty stiff...

I don't find them stiff.
But I started with the Dell AT101W, IBM Model M, & ABS M1 so I'm used to stiff switches.

My first NIB Mech was a Filco Linear Force (MX-Blacks) and after that I tried a few different boards but the MX-Clears in my Deck Legend have been my favorite so far.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
G80-3494 is the only common keyboard with MX reds.

G80-3600 is rather common too if you know anyone over in Asia. (I've got a friend that lives in Japan) So finding them used there isn't terribly hard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
what is the difference between those two boards?

as far as I know

3600 has pad printed Cherry Logo and Green LED
3494 has laser etched Cherry Logo and Blue LED


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
as far as I know

3600 has pad printed Cherry Logo and Green LED
3494 has laser etched Cherry Logo and Blue LED

From pictures it seems as though the 3600 is slightly larger as well.


----------



## BigT

if 3494 is laser etched that would be the nicer one to own IMO. unless the printed ones are coated for long life.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Are you sure those were browns you've used? Browns are the lightest switch I've ever used. It's noticably lighter than blues, and just leaps and bounds lighter than the Alps switches in the ABS M1.

I haven't actually tried anything mechanical except for buckling springs and MX Blues, but based on what I've been reading and hearing I seem to grasp pretty well how they compare - Blues sounded like the kind of keys I wanted, and when I got them they were exactly like I expected (perhaps a bit heavier than what I would have wanted, but that's all).

For some odd reason I remember MX Blues being 55g and MX Browns being 65g. Then buckling springs being 80g or something. Or have I mixed something up?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I haven't actually tried anything mechanical except for buckling springs and MX Blues, but based on what I've been reading and hearing I seem to grasp pretty well how they compare - Blues sounded like the kind of keys I wanted, and when I got them they were exactly like I expected (perhaps a bit heavier than what I would have wanted, but that's all).

For some odd reason I remember MX Blues being 55g and MX Browns being 65g. Then buckling springs being 80g or something. Or have I mixed something up?

Buckling Springs - 65-80G (tactile click)
Cherry MX-Blues - 50 (tactile click)
Cherry MX-Blacks - 60 (linear)
Cherry MX-Clears - 55 (Like blacks with a tactile bump)
Cherry MX-Reds - 45 (like browns without a bump)
Cherry MX-Browns - 45 (tactile bump)


----------



## gonX

Then why are MX Blues considered better for typing than MX Browns? I'd imagine a lighter key (to a certain extent) would improve typing for many.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MX blues have a much nicer and more noticeable tactile bump than MX browns, and the click as well.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Then why are MX Blues considered better for typing than MX Browns? I'd imagine a lighter key (to a certain extent) would improve typing for many.

The distinct click of the MX-Blues gives you a clear decision when to move onto the next key.

Buckling Springs are by far the heaviest keys I've tricked; but I can type on them better than almost any other board.

I think most rubber-dome keyboard are in the ballpark of 50G of force.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I haven't actually tried anything mechanical except for buckling springs and MX Blues, but based on what I've been reading and hearing I seem to grasp pretty well how they compare - Blues sounded like the kind of keys I wanted, and when I got them they were exactly like I expected (perhaps a bit heavier than what I would have wanted, but that's all).

For some odd reason I remember MX Blues being 55g and MX Browns being 65g. Then buckling springs being 80g or something. Or have I mixed something up?

MX Browns are 45g or 50g, I forgot, but there was a slight yet noticable difference for me in how much lighter the Browns were compared to the blues.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Then why are MX Blues considered better for typing than MX Browns? I'd imagine a lighter key (to a certain extent) would improve typing for many.

Blues have a more tactile bump, and the audible click gives an additional source of feedback. In all honesty, I liked typing on the blues more because of the more pronounced tactile bump, but in the end it'd drive my GF insane with all the clicking.


----------



## ripster

Easy to test for yourself. 50g is too low for most rubber domes. I've been meaning to mention that to Phaedrus because I think he may have started the 50g rumor.

This IBM Rubber Dome is 65g


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I usually state 50-65g, with typical Logitech rubber domes being around 60-65g, with Keytronic being in the 50-55g range.


----------



## ch_123

Someone once tested the weight of Keytronic's keys on the variable-weight models, and found them on average a good deal heavier than they were meant to be.


----------



## ripster

Has anyone ever measured the Logitech G series?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Has anyone ever measured the Logitech G series?

13 nickels so ~65g. At least...the num pad and arrow keys were. The WASD cluster and other used keys were less after nearly 3 years.


----------



## ripster

Thanks! At least Razer wasn't exaggerating.


----------



## gonX

Ah, I originally thought MX Browns were just slightly heavier MX Blues with the click soudn removed, but earlier I found out MX Browns were lighter than MX Blues, and now I also found out that the bump isn't as well-defined as on the MX Blues.
MX Browns sound like the keyswitch I'd be using for gaming, even though my MX Blues aren't that bad either


----------



## _AKIMbO_

So the Razer Black Widow (non-ultimate edition) is showing as in-stock on Razer's website. The Ultimate edition isn't though. Just FYI.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Ah, I originally thought MX Browns were just slightly heavier MX Blues with the click soudn removed, but earlier I found out MX Browns were lighter than MX Blues, and now I also found out that the bump isn't as well-defined as on the MX Blues.
MX Browns sound like the keyswitch I'd be using for gaming, even though my MX Blues aren't that bad either









Blues are a pretty great switch, except for the double tapping thing which seems to be a hit-or-miss with people (I'm one of the people bugged by it). Still, it's not a universal issue and tons of people game on the blues just fine. I just never recommend blues for married men in shared offices. The MX Blues are just asking for trouble there


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
I dont know why i hear about people haveing problems with their lycosa keyboards. i have had mine for a while now and never had a single problem. infact i will go as far as saying that it was one of the best ruber dome keyboards that i have ever owned. it was a tie between my lycosa and saitek II. the only reason i replaced my lycosa is because i wanted a nice mechanical keyboard for the new feel.

When I had the Lycosa, I absolutely loved it. I ended up recommending it to people on here every single chance I got.

But looking back, I now know exactly why I liked it so much: it was brand new. This was the keyboard it replaced (not my photo):










I had this thing for 8-10 years. The reason why I replaced it is because several of the keys required noticeably more force to actuate - especially the Spacebar. But the reason why I liked the Lycosa is because it had a fresh rubber sheet of domes! This meant that each key was much springier and much more responsive; it really highlighted how worn-out this old keyboard was. But worst of all: I did not understand any of this. All I knew was that the Lycosa felt better to use.

But then after about 8 months, the USB port on my Lycosa stopped working. Fortunately, I had some extra money waiting to be spent, so I figured that I'd just buy a new Lycosa and keep the old one around just in case.

Oddly enough, the new Lycosa wasn't any better. In fact, it was worse. Not only was the USB port's functionality highly inconsistent, a couple of the alpha keys stopped working which could only be fixed by unplugging the keyboard. Worse yet, some of the keys were a little bit sticky (they almost felt like they were trying to squeak at a lower pitch).

So, I chalked it off as a defective unit and exchanged it with a new one. The new one was precisely the same.

So I exchanged it and ended up with another bad one.

So I exchanged it and ended up with yet ANOTHER bad one.

So, I raged and stormed back to the store and exchanged it with a G15. I figured that I should at least give it a shot since every post I have ever seen here on OCN regarding the G15 were full of praise.

But this G15 was defective. It also has cosmetic defects as well as some strange dark, slightly oily substance on the keys; it looked like it was painted on these keys using one of those foam brushes, but without a specific pattern. Actually, it just looked like these parts of the keyboard were _dipped_ in whatever this stuff was (it looked like some kind of grease from the factory or something). I wiped off what I could, but these parts of the keyboard were still darker than the rest. It wasn't my imagination either: when I wiped these parts down with a paper towel, I accidentally got some on my hand. So that's when I knew it wasn't just a defect in the plastic mold.

So, even though I couldn't get the G15 to work perfectly, it still had basic functionality as a 104-key keyboard. Therefore, I decided to use it for a little bit. I found that I actually liked the way it felt and I liked how it sounded as well. So, I decided to give it an honest shot and I exchanged it for a new G15 (which meant this was my *6th* trip to the store).

The new G15 was a little bit better, but still no good. Worse yet, there was an annoying white speck of debris right in the middle of the LCD display. It was about the typical size of a fresh bread crumb, so it was impossible to ignore. Fortunately, I was able to get the entire keyboard working perfectly, except this caused me to discover that the Mute button was squeaky. So with that, I returned it to the store.

When I got back home, I pulled out my original Lycosa and made a new thread on here asking for help with buying a new keyboard. That caused me to learn about mechanical keyboards which ultimately lead me to buying the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. In comparison, the Filco Majestouch makes the Lycosa feel like a cheap, low quality toy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
So clears are just browns with stiffer springs? I thought the browns were already pretty stiff...

Everything you want to know is in the first 10 posts of the Mechanical Keyboard Guide.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Then why are MX Blues considered better for typing than MX Browns? I'd imagine a lighter key (to a certain extent) would improve typing for many.

The tactility of the Cherry MX Blues is more precise. So when typing on the Cherry MX Blues vs. the Browns, I guess I can say that there's an increased sense of precision and accuracy.


----------



## Maytan

Yeah, I speak from experience here; I have the Browns and definitely want a stiffer switch for typing. Gaming is fine though, I'm not really picky about what keyboard I use for such activities.


----------



## mdbsat

I just pre-ordered the Blackwidow Ultimate. It should ship Oct 13th. I think I will like it.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mdbsat*


I just pre-ordered the Blackwidow Ultimate. It should ship Oct 13th. I think I will like it.


I'm so tempted to pre-order it too. I'm waiting for more reviews to come out but I have a feeling that if I see it in stock on the Razer site I will purchase it anyways...I'm bad like that









Edit: I'm bad...I just pre-ordered.


----------



## mdbsat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
I'm so tempted to pre-order it too. I'm waiting for more reviews to come out but I have a feeling that if I see it in stock on the Razer site I will purchase it anyways...I'm bad like that









Edit: I'm bad...I just pre-ordered.

ha! Yeah, I think we will like it.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mdbsat* 
ha! Yeah, I think we will like it.


----------



## Norlig

Where did you pre order it? Razer Homepage?


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pangeltveit* 
Where did you pre order it? Razer Homepage?

Yes


----------



## Norlig

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
Yes

Only ships to Canada and US


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pangeltveit* 
Only ships to Canada and US









Oooo...that sucks. Sorry man.


----------



## lmnop

Razer online store ships worldwide.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

The normal blackwidow has been in stock. I guess no one has done any reviews yet?

edit: or maybe not.. razer site has add to cart, but ships on the 29th.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
The normal blackwidow has been in stock. I guess no one has done any reviews yet?

it's already been reviewed by someone.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=227115&postcount=575


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's already been reviewed by someone.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=227115&postcount=575

Oh nice find, thx


----------



## lmnop

not much to say about it. it has something in common with Deck they both have a non-sculpted profile.

sculpted Unicomp








non-sculpted Deck








non-sculpted Razer


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
not much to say about it.

I just wanted to make post #434.


----------



## ThumperSD

Will the basic Blackwidow model have illuminated keys?


----------



## lmnop

no.


----------



## ThumperSD

So what does the ultimate have over the basic besides the illuminated keys?

It's like $50 more


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
So what does the ultimate have over the basic besides the illuminated keys?

It's like $50 more

Blackwidow Ultimate is illuminated and has a multimedia hub (headphone, microphone, usb).

rubber dome keyboards like the Logitech G series, Saitek Eclipse series, Microsoft Sidewinder series, etc. use less than 20 LED to illuminate over 100+ Keys.

Razer Blackwidow Ultimate has over 100 LED.


----------



## ThumperSD

Thanks. I was expecting more for the extra $50 though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
Will the basic Blackwidow model have illuminated keys?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThumperSD* 
So what does the ultimate have over the basic besides the illuminated keys?

It's like $50 more

Here, check this out:


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Oh danm, you definitely need that extra usb ports


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Oh danm, you definitely need that extra usb ports

Actually, I used to prefer keyboards with at least one USB port on the right side (but not facing to the right!) so that I could plug my mouse into it and get the same feeling as a wireless mouse with the stability of a wired one.

But today, I have taken an alternative route: I now use a USB extension cable attached to a strategic location so that I can still use a wired mouse and still get the feeling of a wireless mouse without needing my keyboard to have a USB port. But the reason why I went this mouse is because I have this keyboard:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb


----------



## shnur

Just went through and read the whole package in the Mechanical keyboard guide... lots of info there!
It seems like although they are clicky, there's not a big issue with the fact that this keyboard uses Cherry MX Blues instead of Blacks...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
Just went through and read the whole package in the Mechanical keyboard guide... lots of info there!
It seems like although they are clicky, there's not a big issue with the fact that this keyboard uses Cherry MX Blues instead of Blacks...

The issue isn't the click, but it's that the reset point is higher than the actuation point. So for some gamers, this can really hurt double-tapping quite a bit.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The issue isn't the click, but it's that the reset point is higher than the actuation point. So for some gamers, this can really hurt double-tapping quite a bit.

this!


----------



## lmnop

a recent poll "Do you have difficulty gaming on Cherry MX blue switches?" results show out of 18 people 11 didn't have a problem but 7 did. not very convincing. the click is going to irritate others over your microphone. Cherry MX Blue is a typing switch. if your interested in the Razer Blackwidow make sure your prepared to return it if needed.


----------



## shnur

Well my G19 has power issues so I'm sending it back to Logitech in the next week; I'd need a keyboard to replace it for the time being and after as well. I am pretty much set on a mechanical keyboard, just trying to find one that is back-lit and would allow me to type faster. Gaming is important but not a lot of double tapping (except for SC2...)


----------



## mdbsat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
a recent poll "Do you have difficulty gaming on Cherry MX blue switches?" results show out of 18 people 11 didn't have a problem but 7 did. not very convincing. the click is going to irritate others over your microphone. Cherry MX Blue is a typing switch. if your interested in the Razer Blackwidow make sure your prepared to return it if needed.

I value your opinion on this. I can still cancel my pre-order of the balckwidow. Should I just get a Deck?


----------



## Marin

Try it out first, some people are more picky when it comes to what switch they game on.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
Well my G19 has power issues so I'm sending it back to Logitech in the next week; I'd need a keyboard to replace it for the time being and after as well. I am pretty much set on a mechanical keyboard, just trying to find one that is back-lit and would allow me to type faster. Gaming is important but not a lot of double tapping (except for SC2...)

The XArmor U9BL. Same keyboard as the BlackWidow Ultimate, but with more extras--NKRO, orange WASD keys (separate), a keycap puller, detachable wrist rest. It costs the same, is available now, and best of all XArmor don't spread bull**** like a cow farm to get sales.

http://xarmor-usa.com


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mdbsat* 
I value your opinion on this. I can still cancel my pre-order of the balckwidow. Should I just get a Deck?

If you don't get a Deck lmnop WILL pummel you.


----------



## mcbrite

Blues are perfect for, say, starcraft 2...

They are still way above average for gaming FPS...

Personal experience, own blacks, blues and even reds...


----------



## gonX

For anything non-high paced games (mostly FPS'es), there are no downsides of MX Blues to be honest. You can get used to the reset point if you give it some time. It's harder in high paced games, but still possible. People who can't get used to it are simply just like that and won't be able to use MX Blues.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
The XArmor U9BL. Same keyboard as the BlackWidow Ultimate, but with more extras--NKRO, orange WASD keys (separate), a keycap puller, detachable wrist rest. It costs the same, is available now, and best of all XArmor don't spread bull**** like a cow farm to get sales.

http://xarmor-usa.com

This.. listen to what he said..Black Widow vs Xarmor for the price..
Xarmor is still > Black Widow..
Consider Xarmor instead of Black widow.

MX Blue works fine in most of the game starcraft, but just not for all..especially like counter strike, but if in WoW like extreme PVP, it sometimes fail me to control my chac well..even in NBA2k game.


----------



## gordesky1

Don't forget that the razer has macros over the XArmor U9BL









Yes i know you can use autohotkeys which i use right now, But I prefer too have dedicated buttons for my macros and programs. Like when i was using a old gateway anykey keyboard before i got my abs m1, It was really handy too have those extra buttons.

I can't wait too get my BlackWidow Ultimate! And if i don't like it i can always send it back, But im sure i will like it.

But ya the xarmor is also a really nice deal it still has the promotion for a free mouse which is a 29$ value, Even tho i don't have use for another mouse but still nice deal.

Heck i waited month and a half so im gonna give the razer a chance lol


----------



## BigT

if you like macros then the razer BW is probably the best thing you could get. the U9BL quality of the coating on the keys worries me. i have seen pictures and it almost looks like some 5 year old sprayed on plasti dip really unevenly onto the clear keys to give them their black rubber coating.


----------



## Kaishi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
if you like macros then the razer BW is probably the best thing you could get. the U9BL quality of the coating on the keys worries me. i have seen pictures and it almost looks like some 5 year old sprayed on plasti dip really unevenly onto the clear keys to give them their black rubber coating.

They actually used a really complex processing involving dye-submination, 2 coats of rubber, laser etching the legends, and then clearcoat...

But! I agree. I don't trust it. If they had gone with a really good dye-sub job, or double-shot keys, I would have bought a U9BL. I just don't trust rubber coatings, not even really thick ones.

I'll substantiate this claim with the following tidbit: the Logitech MX Revolution, one of my favorite mouse designs of all time, has a very large and thick rubber pad on the left side, where your thumb rests. The thing is, after a year of use, I will have etched a hole in this rubber all the way down to the glossy plastic underneath. This pad is at least 2mm thick, possibly 3. It is *much* more than just a coating...

The Saitek Eclipse I, which had silver keys that were laser etched to reveal the backlighting, lost their laser-etched legends within 2 years. I have an Eclipse II, which has black keys instead of sliver, and it has faired a lot better. It's still a rubber-dome keyboard, without even scissor switches... so I don't really care for the feel of it anymore.

I'm hoping that my new Logitech K800 will stand up to the test of time. I got mine a few days before the official launch. It has scissor action, white backlighting, slim profile keys with really nice sculpting to the key profile, and a really nice finish. It looks great and feels great. It doesn't even feel wireless, as I have not had a single dropped key yet, nor felt any latency. I ran some pretty exhaustive tests yesterday and it seems that the K800 is 5-KRO, which is really great. The only problem I found was on the homerow: If I hit ASDF, I could not hit both G and H. So ASDFG was fine, and ASDFH was fine, but not ASDFGH. This effect was mirrored for GJKL; and HJKL;

*TL;DR:* The U9DL has high-quality rubber-finish keys, but I don't trust ANY key finish like that, from prior experiences. If you want a nice backlit keyboard, take a look at the Logitech K800. While it isn't mechanical, it is scissor, and totally rocks.


----------



## shnur

I'll place an order for it. I'll check it out and worse case I'll return it; I'll know for sure if I can game on Cherry Blues.
Also VS the XArmor one; the Macro keys would be very useful; I play WoW and it is giving you extra spots to put your spells on. As for pricing, they're the same as far as I see.


----------



## thisispatrick

The ultimate version has been pushed back again. Just a FYI.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 








The ultimate version has been pushed back again. Just a FYI.

Just got the email from Razer that the Black Widow Ultimate isn't shipping until 11/28...this is making me MHZ


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
Just got the email from Razer that the Black Widow Ultimate isn't shipping until 11/28...this is making me MHZ









I think it's shipping with Duke Nukem Forev-

Oh wait, Gearbox has that now and it'll actually be finished.

What's the vaporware comparison to make these days anyways?


----------



## Spandy87

How would this compare to the steelseries 6g?


----------



## BigT

this new keyboard by razer, The Black Widow, has cherry MX Blue keys, and it has dedicated Macro keys. it is also native usb and 6KRO, and cannot be used with a ps2 adaptor. there is also a backlit version if you like a backlit keyboard.

the steelseries 6GV2 uses cherry MX Black keys, has no macro keys, and is native usb. it has 6KRO on usb and can be used with a PS2 adaptor for NKRO. the steelseries is built with a metal plate inside like its bigger brother the 7G.

they are very different keyboards for different people. it depends on if you need macro keys and it depends on what type of key you prefer to type and game on. everyone has their own preference on what it better. i like the steelseries more. i just got myself a 7G instead of this razer i was waiting for.


----------



## TwoCables

Just in case, it's not "keys", but "switches".


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Just in case, it's not "keys", but "switches".

















i am still a noob!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
I think it's shipping with Duke Nukem Forev-

Oh wait, Gearbox has that now and it'll actually be finished.

What's the vaporware comparison to make these days anyways?

Half Life 2: Episode 3


----------



## shnur

Oh that is sad







now I'll have to use a Dell stock keyboard


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Half Life 2: Episode 3











I want episode 3. it better be awsome if and when it ever comes out!!


----------



## gordesky1

Wow im hating this delay stuff what razer is doing.... Im really close too just canceling the razer and get the xarmor keyboard...


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

I want some early reviews of this to see if it's actually worth it.


----------



## thisispatrick

There are some reviews out already. Google/search it. 
Still waiting on my review unit though... :sulks:


----------



## Dirtyworks

Its probably as cheap as it is for a reason. 3 RMA's on my lycosa + this one already dying.. I'm going to destroy this POS when I get my SS 7G.


----------



## ripster

I posted Razer BlackWidow review links earlier at OCN here.


----------



## gordesky1

Hmm think i might just order a XArmor now, And keep the razer on preorder and save that for my Christmas present lol... Sense i do have alot of computers and cant stand typing on rubber domes anymore so more mechs is always nice lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


Hmm think i might just order a XArmor now, And keep the razer on preorder and save that for my Christmas present lol... Sense i do have alot of computers and cant stand typing on rubber domes anymore so more mechs is always nice lol


iOne is launching the XArmor U9GBL Q4 or Q1 (2011)

Key changes are 12 Macro Keys and a Function Key (R-Windows) to activate the Media and Backlight controls.

basically it sounds like a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with 7 extra macros.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


iOne is launching the XArmor U9GBL Q4 or Q1 (2011)

Key changes are 12 Macro Keys and a Function Key (R-Windows) to activate the Media and Backlight controls.

basically it sounds like a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with 7 extra macros.


So who's skilled with a solder gun and wants to butcher an XArmor board to put some MX-Clears on it?


----------



## lmnop

I would. I think most people would be intimidated by it and enthusiast would find it tedious.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I would. I think most people would be intimidated by it and enthusiast would find it tedious.










I'm just considering doing it.

Cost wise, it'd be alot. And I might just grab a Topre to say I have and tried a Topre board.


----------



## lmnop

I think the problem is you have to desolder the LED before you desolder the Cherry MX switch. hence tedious.

Lorazepam and Music would certainly help


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think the problem is you have to desolder the LED before you desolder the Cherry MX switch. hence tedious.

Lorazepam and Music would certainly help










I'm not terribly worried about that part, but more about me actually breaking something.

I've never tackled a soldering job so large before, so the chances of me screwing up later on in the process seems likely.


----------



## lmnop

I had some help. if you need help make sure you have a camera and create a thread at geekhack.

my first mistake was buying a soldering iron. I should of bought a soldering station. you can find them on eBay.


----------



## gordesky1

Hmm does anyone know what switch type the XArmor U9GBL will have?

Im pretty much after the blue switch's







But on the Xarmor site it says they having the browns switch's in their new upcoming products, So im assuming the u9gbl will have browns?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
Hmm does anyone know what switch type the XArmor U9GBL will have?

Im pretty much after the blue switch's







But on the Xarmor site it says they having the browns switch's in their new upcoming products, So im assuming the u9gbl will have browns?

Yep, this is indeed the one that was said to come with the Cherry MX Browns. Also, I bet that the "G" in the model number (err, model _string_) means "Gamer".


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yep, this is indeed the one that was said to come with the Cherry MX Browns. Also, I bet that the "G" in the model number (err, model _string_) means "Gamer".









Hmm think i order the current one with blues than...

Still thinking what i should do with the black widow, But might just get that too sense you never can have enough mechs... lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
Hmm think i order the current one with blues than...

Still thinking what i should do with the black widow, But might just get that too sense you never can have enough mechs... lol

I say get it so that you can be one of the people who can provide an owner's opinion on it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

On XArmor and blues/browns, they're currently conducting product testing in several markets to see what the public prefers so they know how many to make of each model.

The models with MX browns will have a -S at the end.

The U9GLB is a U9BL with twelve macro keys and a couple other features.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I had some help. if you need help make sure you have a camera and create a thread at geekhack.

my first mistake was buying a soldering iron. I should of bought a soldering station. you can find them on eBay.

Well I have a soldering station as I've done some PSU Rescue in the past and done repair jobs on them.

But the joints for a key switch look smaller than those of your typical capacitor or heatsink.

What are the chances (if say I touch the PCB for a second) that I would cause any serious damage to the PCB?


----------



## shnur

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Well I have a soldering station as I've done some PSU Rescue in the past and done repair jobs on them.

But the joints for a key switch look smaller than those of your typical capacitor or heatsink.

What are the chances (if say I touch the PCB for a second) that I would cause any serious damage to the PCB?

For a second, chances are low, although if you take a lot of time working in the same area, you could end up with a bent/burnt board...


----------



## tzillian

has the razer black widow been pushed back?

Est. Ship Date: 11/28/10

thats what it now says on their page? or is that for people who buy it now?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tzillian* 
has the razer black widow been pushed back?

Est. Ship Date: 11/28/10

thats what it now says on their page? or is that for people who buy it now?

It has been pushed back.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tzillian* 
has the razer black widow been pushed back?

Est. Ship Date: 11/28/10

thats what it now says on their page? or is that for people who buy it now?

It's pushed back for everybody


----------



## tzillian

wow, over a month. thats horrible.


----------



## mdbsat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
It's pushed back for everybody









I canceled my order and bought a Deck.


----------



## GIMJ

I also was origionally going to get a bw, but it kept getting delayed so I got impatient and gave up and went for a das model s professional instead.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GIMJ*


I also was origionally going to get a bw, but it kept getting delayed so I got impatient and gave up and went for a das model s professional instead.


Sweet! The Das Model S is a better keyboard anyway!


----------



## GIMJ

I just got it in the mail and I am loving it. The brown switches are so easy to type on and I am sure my apm in sc2 has increased by at least 10 and I am still getting used to a full sized keyboard again (I was just using my laptop one up until now).


----------



## shnur

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GIMJ* 
I also was origionally going to get a bw, but it kept getting delayed so I got impatient and gave up and went for a das model s professional instead.

Same here, just about to order a Das S Ultimate Silent...


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shnur*


Same here, just about to order a Das S Ultimate Silent...


SILENT?! I am ashamed!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What's wrong with browns?


----------



## digitalgat

Was just about to pull the trigger on the $80 Blackwidow and decided to search for some reviews first. Luckily I stumbled across the Mech Keyboard Guide and this thread.

I really like the design of the BW.. the shape, the keys.. the fonts, their size and printing. Very nice. I don't like the gloss finish though. I have a Lycos and it's a constant pain to keep it clean and the Lycosa keys are wearing out only after a year of mild use. I might try sanding the gloss with a fine grit paper.

Sooo.... I would like some advice on what keyboard to purchase. The reason I'm passing on the BW is because of the few comments about razer cutting corners on build quality, but mostly it's because of the double tap issues with the blue switches. I'm not sure if it will affect me, but I do play a lot of fps. Red, black and brown seem to be the choice switch for gamers. I love the design of the Das Keyboards and so far I'm thinking I would be best with the silent.. brown switches. The XArmor also looks nice, but I guess it only comes with blue. I'm not really feeling the design of the Deck keyboard.. I like the clicking of a mech keyboard, but gaming is more important than typing... I don't need major click response, but a little is nice. Wish I could test out all the different switch flavors, unfortunately I don't have that option and I'm hoping I can purchase a mech keyboard I love on the first attempt.

Thanks!


----------



## lmnop

do not use sand paper on the gloss finish. Novus is a plastic polisher and scratch remover you can buy individual bottles or a kit. iOne manufactured the Razer Blackwidow. the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards on the market.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


do not use sand paper on the gloss finish. Novus is a plastic polisher and scratch remover you can buy individual bottles or a kit. iOne manufactured the Razer Blackwidow. the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards on the market.


Hm. Have you ever heard of using the backside of a sponge to de-gloss something? I used it on the back of my itouch to give it a nice brushed metal look. Then I did it on my EEE Pc which gave it a matte look. Do you think its possible on the Das? :x


----------



## lmnop

I don't know but anything you do is going to de-value the Das. learn to care for it and like it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't know but anything you do is going to de-value the Das. learn to care for it and like it.


I do like it .-. I just don't have a thing for gloss.


----------



## ripster

New pics of the Black Widow Ultimate.

The connectors look genuine gold plated. The keys look like Xarmor's. In other words "cell phone" style lasered.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


New pics of the Black Widow Ultimate.

The connectors look genuine gold plated. The keys look like Xarmor's. In other words "cell phone" style lasered.


._. Could this be why the shipping date was pushed back?


----------



## ripster

Why? Jillions of cellphones are lasered every day. It's not rocket science. Well actually, it kinda is.










More details here.


----------



## digitalgat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
do not use sand paper on the gloss finish. Novus is a plastic polisher and scratch remover you can buy individual bottles or a kit. iOne manufactured the Razer Blackwidow. the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards on the market.

Thanks will try Novus.

I don't really like the design of the Deck Legend. I'm still researching different keyboards, but the Das is looking promising.


----------



## fssbzz

i really wish that Deck make Red switches. i will 100% get it without even think about it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i really wish that Deck make Red switches. i will 100% get it without even think about it.

I think the only other company that uses red switches is the one that Cherry makes themselves?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
I think the only other company that uses red switches is the one that Cherry makes themselves?

i think that too.. because cherry refuse to sell red switches to other manufacture?

anyway my ducky 黑同刻 is on the way


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i think that too.. because cherry refuse to sell red switches to other manufacture?

anyway my ducky 黑同刻 is on the way

































































Still waiting for my mom to go on her business trip. She's picking up a _Ducky 1087 機械鍵盤 N-KEY |茶軸英文_ for me.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Still waiting for my mom to go on her business trip. She's picking up a _Ducky 1087 機械鍵盤 N-KEY |茶軸英文_ for me.

get the G80-3494 as well?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
get the G80-3494 as well?

Maybe next trip


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I wonder when pics of the new xarmor with macro keys will come out. I don't think people would be so inclined to get the razer if they saw the other option.


----------



## gordesky1

Tho the next Xarmor problee will have cherry browns sense the poll on their site asks what switch's people want and they said in the thread ( definately we will roll out the BROWN switches model).

Ever sense i got the Xarmor U9BL a week ago i don't think i can go too any other switch than blues i really love the sound ( The Click!) and feedback of them and i don't have any problems with gaming on them







Even tho it would be nice too try all switchs.

I still have the black widow Ultimate on preorder still and i know the Xarmor and blackwidow is pretty much almost the same keyboard except each one has different features than each other, But i could use another mechanical keyboard with blues Sense i do have alot of computers that needs a mech.

So when i get the blackwidow i will have 3 mech keyboard









Abs m1 which i still love, Xarmor,And blackwidow. And problee counting sense the Saying when you go mech you will always want too have more of them,Which is true lol


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I wonder when pics of the new xarmor with macro keys will come out. I don't think people would be so inclined to get the razer if they saw the other option.

Not sure. I sent them an email. Dang cherry blues have some umph to it









Edit: The U9GBL (macro keys) is slated to be released between Jan-Feb of 2011.


----------



## Norlig

Any1 know if this comes in any of the scandinavian layouts?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *digitalgat*


Was just about to pull the trigger on the $80 Blackwidow and decided to search for some reviews first. Luckily I stumbled across the Mech Keyboard Guide and this thread.

I really like the design of the BW.. the shape, the keys.. the fonts, their size and printing. Very nice. I don't like the gloss finish though. I have a Lycos and it's a constant pain to keep it clean and the Lycosa keys are wearing out only after a year of mild use. I might try sanding the gloss with a fine grit paper.

Sooo.... I would like some advice on what keyboard to purchase. The reason I'm passing on the BW is because of the few comments about razer cutting corners on build quality, but mostly it's because of the double tap issues with the blue switches. I'm not sure if it will affect me, but I do play a lot of fps. Red, black and brown seem to be the choice switch for gamers. I love the design of the Das Keyboards and so far I'm thinking I would be best with the silent.. brown switches. The XArmor also looks nice, but I guess it only comes with blue. I'm not really feeling the design of the Deck keyboard.. I like the clicking of a mech keyboard, but gaming is more important than typing... I don't need major click response, but a little is nice. Wish I could test out all the different switch flavors, unfortunately I don't have that option and I'm hoping I can purchase a mech keyboard I love on the first attempt.

Thanks!


Note: when talking about mechanical keyboards, the word "click" refers to the sound of the switch itself. So the Cherry MX Blues are the only switches in the Cherry MX lineup that click. It's actually better described as a _mechanical_ click since it's just a sound that comes from the mechanism in the switch itself. So, a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns or Blacks is not "clicky". However, it can be "clacky" when bottoming out as well as when the keys come back up, but that's it.

Anyway, I recommend that you start a new thread here:

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/

Or, start up a discussion in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. I mean, nobody is going to come to this thread (the one we are in right now) just to answer your questions because this isn't your thread.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Not sure. I sent them an email. Dang cherry blues have some umph to it









Edit: The U9GBL (macro keys) is slated to be released between Jan-Feb of 2011.


But the U9GBL will have the Cherry MX Blues. The one with the Browns will have an "S" at the end of the model name. I mean, I think it will be U9BLS, or U9GBLS, or U9BL-S, or U9GBL-S.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


Tho the next Xarmor problee will have cherry browns sense the poll on their site asks what switch's people want and they said in the thread ( definately we will roll out the BROWN switches model).

Ever sense i got the Xarmor U9BL a week ago i don't think i can go too any other switch than blues i really love the sound ( The Click!) and feedback of them and i don't have any problems with gaming on them







Even tho it would be nice too try all switchs.

I still have the black widow Ultimate on preorder still and i know the Xarmor and blackwidow is pretty much almost the same keyboard except each one has different features than each other, But i could use another mechanical keyboard with blues Sense i do have alot of computers that needs a mech.

So when i get the blackwidow i will have 3 mech keyboard









Abs m1 which i still love, Xarmor,And blackwidow. And problee counting sense the Saying when you go mech you will always want too have more of them,Which is true lol


ROFL. I sold off my blues a while ago. I've had 3 before too, and I'll definitely be getting either the blackwidow or the xarmor dependent on the switch. I don't want another brown. It's not perfect for gaming, aka I'm not very percise in reaching single keys like 5-0 for starcraft 2. The softness of browns gives me some trouble. I think they should stick with blues, or make two versions.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


ROFL. I sold off my blues a while ago. I've had 3 before too, and I'll definitely be getting either the blackwidow or the xarmor dependent on the switch. I don't want another brown. It's not perfect for gaming, aka I'm not very percise in reaching single keys like 5-0 for starcraft 2. The softness of browns gives me some trouble. I think they should stick with blues, or make two versions.


It all comes down to user preference really. My frist kb was browns but now I have my first blues (XArmor) and I have yet to pick a favorite. Haven't used the blues long enough to judge fairly. :|


----------



## I am from Caspiar it sunk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tzillian*


has the razer black widow been pushed back?

Est. Ship Date: 11/28/10

thats what it now says on their page? or is that for people who buy it now?


Yeah but look at the date. That's a "marketing strategy date" for sure! The weekend following Thanksgiving, when everyone in the USA goes Christmas shopping.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *I am from Caspiar it sunk*


Yeah but look at the date. That's a "marketing strategy date" for sure! The weekend following Thanksgiving, when everyone in the USA goes Christmas shopping.


Way late bump, so please bear with me, but anyone else get a the shipping date bumped to December 7th?









*Hopes it gets here by X-mas*


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Way late bump, so please bear with me, but anyone else get a the shipping date bumped to December 7th?









*Hopes it gets here by X-mas*


Lol its getting pushed again and again .-.


----------



## TwoCables

lol this is just one more good reason to avoid all of Razer's keyboards. ^_^


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7* 
Way late bump, so please bear with me, but anyone else get a the shipping date bumped to December 7th?









*Hopes it gets here by X-mas*

Sorry for the late bump as well.

Did anyone who pre-ordered get their tracking info yet? The razer site now shows the ship date as "est. next ship date 1/05/10" (<-- I'm assuming that is meant to be a 2011 and not 2010).


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
Sorry for the late bump as well.

Did anyone who pre-ordered get their tracking info yet? The razer site now shows the ship date as "est. next ship date 1/05/10" (<-- I'm assuming that is meant to be a 2011 and not 2010).

It got pushed back even MORE? Well good luck for the people waiting for one. Just to tell you guys, the keys are slightly rubbery, less rubbery than the XArmor U9BL though.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
It got pushed back even MORE?

I don't know...that's what I'm trying to figure out. Since it says *next* est. ship date...I assume it hasn't been pushed back more.

I just emailed Razer support to inquire about the ship date so I will post back when I get their response.


----------



## Sizuke

I have this on pre-order but im gonna cancel it now, the postponing is getting a bit ridiculous and im also having second toughs about this keyboard now. :/


----------



## Victor_Mizer

These delays are total BS. Probably just going to get the xarmor u9bl.


----------



## Sizuke

Well this is it, the guy on overclockers.co.uk said that is razers fault when i was cancelling my order just 5 minutes ago, i was then having a look and i found a website that ships the xarmor to the UK http://www.overstock.com/search?keyw...rchType=Header and is cheaper than the BW!?
i was also not fond of the BW glossy finish so that helped on my decision to cancel the order.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sizuke*


Well this is it, the guy on overclockers.co.uk said that is razers fault when i was cancelling my order just 5 minutes ago, i was then having a look and i found a website that ships the xarmor to the UK http://www.overstock.com/search?keyw...rchType=Header and is cheaper than the BW!?
i was also not fond of the BW glossy finish so that helped on my decision to cancel the order.


XArmor is ~130 and BW Ultimate is ~130.
The normal BW is ~80.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sizuke* 
I have this on pre-order but im gonna cancel it now, the postponing is getting a bit ridiculous and im also having second toughs about this keyboard now. :/


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
These delays are total BS. Probably just going to get the xarmor u9bl.

I agree the delays are pissing me off too.

Razer still hasn't gotten back to me yet so I still assume that those who pre-ordered early will be shipped the KB on 12/7/10 & hopefully not 1/5 instead.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

I went ahead and just ordered the standard blackwidow from newegg. I don't think I need the blue lights anyhow, and I have been dying to try out a mechanical with all the hype I read here.


----------



## ripster

Hey Jason at Razer!

What's so hard about 100 colored LEDs? My store has lots of these for less than $10!


----------



## redhat_ownage

i saw this at FRY's last night, keys feel great!! perfect i think, 
i have $96 should i buy this keyboard or a new mouse i've been badly needing?
my sister has a razer abyssus i might use till i get a new mouse for myself.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redhat_ownage*


i saw this at FRY's last night, keys feel great!! perfect i think, 
i have $96 should i buy this keyboard or a new mouse i've been badly needing?
my sister has a razer abyssus i might use till i get a new mouse for myself.


Go for it, it's not a bad deal.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


lol this is just one more good reason to avoid all of Razer's keyboards. ^_^


no, don't spread this thought! I hope Razer sells boat loads of mechanicals regardless of their quality, we need other manufacturers to become enticed and step up and produce!

Of course if consumers avoid Razer for quality concerns, by all means they should get a different brand mechanical!


----------



## ripster

AFAIK there have been zero reports of quality issues.

The $80 Razer Black Widow version is a fine keyboard at a good price (not so much the $130 one - hopefully will be fixed in V2). Although early it's getting 5 eggs at Newegg and 4+ reviews at Amazon, better than the Steelseries 6GV2.

I think a lot of people are finding the "Gaming Optimized" NKRO and the Macro key programming ability more useful than PS/2 NKRO.

Razer haters gotta hate.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


AFAIK there have been zero reports of quality issues.

The $80 Razer Black Widow version is a fine keyboard at a good price (not so much the $130 one - hopefully will be fixed in V2). Although early it's getting 5 eggs at Newegg and 4+ reviews at Amazon, better than the Steelseries 6GV2.

I think a lot of people are finding the "Gaming Optimized" NKRO and the Macro key programming ability more useful than PS/2 NKRO.

Razer haters gotta hate.


Been playing a few games here and there with the BW Ultimate. Haven't had any troubles concerning the "gaming NKRO". (Sorry I only have 2 hands for all you "I need full NKRO people".) Its not a bad product to be honest, I find it quite comparable to the XArmor board (since they are are similar price ranges). The only trouble I have is still the cherry blue switches/double tapping issue. Not going count it against Razer though.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_*


Sorry for the late bump as well.

Did anyone who pre-ordered get their tracking info yet? The razer site now shows the ship date as "est. next ship date 1/05/10" (<-- I'm assuming that is meant to be a 2011 and not 2010).


No tracking info yet... damn today was a great day too, obliterated my final exams, was all giddy.. then saw this









I hope soooo hard that it isn't postponed again, I'm probably one of the few people still on the damn waiting list, as most others probably already went to the U9BL or a Deck.. or another keyboard entirely.

Please don't ruin my day Razer.. pleaseeeeeeee









edit: If it's worth anything, my Order status still says the following:

Quote:



This order will be shipped after the release date of 11/28/2010 for Razer BlackWidow Ultimate.


:/


----------



## Zerkk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


I went ahead and just ordered the standard blackwidow from newegg. I don't think I need the blue lights anyhow, and I have been dying to try out a mechanical with all the hype I read here.










Exactly, that's why I've decided on the basic model, I don't need the LED's, I have a lamp on when I'm on my machine anyways. I haven't ordered one yet due to the fact that I might be getting an xArmor but it's definitely a good buy for the price.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


AFAIK there have been zero reports of quality issues.

The $80 Razer Black Widow version is a fine keyboard at a good price (not so much the $130 one - hopefully will be fixed in V2). Although early it's getting 5 eggs at Newegg and 4+ reviews at Amazon, better than the Steelseries 6GV2.

I think a lot of people are finding the "Gaming Optimized" NKRO and the Macro key programming ability more useful than PS/2 NKRO.

Razer haters gotta hate.


I haven't kept up with their Lycosa/Arctosa boards, but the primary issue with my Tarantulas (had to RMA several times to get a properly functioning board) had to do with the way the goofy keycaps made contact with the membrane to try and minimize actuation distance. Basically some of the keys wouldn't actuate with normal typing and had to be firmly pressed with more than casual typing force and pressed directly in the center of the key.

So if they've had troubles there I'd assume using a reliable cherry instead of membrane should eliminate the quality issues in that regard.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Update: Razer finally responded and said the new est. shipping date is only for those people who pre-ordered on December 3rd and beyond. Anyone who pre-ordered December 2nd and prior will still be getting their Black Widow Ultimate shipped on December 7th.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
Update: Razer finally responded and said the new est. shipping date is only for those people who pre-ordered on December 3rd and beyond. Anyone who pre-ordered December 2nd and prior will still be getting their Black Widow Ultimate shipped on December 7th.

I love you, in the most OCN way possible


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7* 
I love you, in the most OCN way possible









I <3 you too.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

T minus 1 day till the BW Ultimate ships!


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_*


T minus 1 day till the BW Ultimate ships!


It's today! Omg omg omg omg omg omg omg!

The day has finally arrived!


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


It's today! Omg omg omg omg omg omg omg!

The day has finally arrived!










My order status just changed from "submitted" to "being processed." Looks like it ships today!


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Did anyone get their tracking info yet? My order status still hasn't changed from "being processed."


----------



## Munkypoo7

Order in Process here...

Better that than nothing, I'll fire them off an email if by Friday is hasn't been fired from the giant UPS cannon to my house









Edit:
ffs QQ mode engaged,

Quote:

Unfortunately, one or more of the products you ordered is

currently out of stock and could not be shipped. The product(s) has been placed on backorder and will

be shipped as soon as stock becomes available. You will receive another email notification when your

order has actually shipped.

Product Name Qty Ordered Backorder Quantity Amount
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 1 1 $129.99


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Surprise, surprise...Razer has sold out online of the Black Widow Ultimate and I have been placed on back order even after pre-ordereding on Oct. 5th and being promised that my KB would ship out on Dec. 7th.

If anyone has/can find the email address for the Razer president or similarly positioned Razer employee will you please give it to me as I want to write them an incredibly nasty email about their botched release of this product.


----------



## tzillian

got the same email. shipping was pushed back because its out of stock. this is ridiculous. i placed the order on september 3rd. if i hadnt payed by wire transfer and i my computer wasnt completely apart waiting for the tj11 i would have returned it.


----------



## gordesky1

I ordered mine 8/21 and yep i got that email too







And oliver leunq told me it should shipped on the 7th which is today if i ordered before dec 3rd..

All these delays and now this... very close on canceling...

So i emailed him again and he should get back too me today in couple hours, So i will give a update whats going on.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
I ordered mine 8/21 and yep i got that email too







And oliver leunq told me it should shipped on the 7th which is today if i ordered before dec 3rd..

All these delays and now this... very close on canceling...

So i emailed him again and he should get back too me today in couple hours, So i will give a update whats going on.

I just wrote a long email to the Razer President only to have it be kicked back to me because his email address doesn't follow the typical "[email protected]" format.

Do you know if Chan Gent Ho or Oliver Leunq are more than just lowley cs reps? I want someone at Razer who is more than just a minimum wage cs rep to read this email.

Edit: I just sent them the email anyways.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
I just wrote a long email to the Razer President only to have it be kicked back to me because his email address doesn't follow the typical "[email protected]" format.

Do you know if Chan Gent Ho or Oliver Leunq are more than just lowley cs reps? I want someone at Razer who is more than just a minimum wage cs rep to read this email.

Edit: I just sent them the email anyways.


He got back too me and said this

I'm really sorry about that.
Due to the massive amount of preorders, the BlackWidow shipment is coming into 3 parts to the warehouse. First shipment should be ready for use by this Thursday as it got delayed at the customs. 2nd and 3rd shipment are also delayed due to bad weather and the planes were grounded and expecting to reach the warehouse on the 14th onwards.

So they got delayed a bit again.

But hopefully we get ours shipped by thursday.. lol

They really fast getting back too you thats forsure







took 1hour and couple min.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
He got back too me and said this

I'm really sorry about that.
Due to the massive amount of preorders, the BlackWidow shipment is coming into 3 parts to the warehouse. First shipment should be ready for use by this Thursday as it got delayed at the customs. 2nd and 3rd shipment are also delayed due to bad weather and the planes were grounded and expecting to reach the warehouse on the 14th onwards.

So they got delayed a bit again.

But hopefully we get ours shipped by thursday.. lol

They really fast getting back too you thats forsure







took 1hour and couple min.

That's good that you got a reply. I still haven't.

If it doesn't ship out thursday I am cancelling my pre-order and going with the XArmor U9BL.

This is sad...I've been looking foward to the BW Ultimate for 2 months now.

One thing is for sure...Razer needs a lesson in customer communication. Out of stock on back order is not the same thing as a 2 day shipping delay due to customs or bad weather.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
That's good that you got a reply. I still haven't.

If it doesn't ship out thursday I am cancelling my pre-order and going with the XArmor U9BL.

This is sad...I've been looking foward to the BW Ultimate for 2 months now.

One thing is for sure...Razer needs a lesson in customer communication. Out of stock on back order is not the same thing as a 2 day shipping delay due to customs or bad weather.

Um... *taps shoulder*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823114011


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Um... *taps shoulder*
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823114011

That's the black widow vanilla version. We are waiting for the Black Widow Ultimate version.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
That's the black widow vanilla version. We are waiting for the Black Widow Ultimate version.

you deserve to be without keyboard for buying into the gimmicky lights.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_AKIMbO_* 
That's the black widow vanilla version. We are waiting for the Black Widow Ultimate version.

I see. Well I guess good luck waiting!


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
you deserve to be without keyboard for buying into the gimmicky lights.

What if he needs the other features of the Ultimate?


----------



## slaney30

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
you deserve to be without keyboard for buying into the gimmicky lights.

Do you ever video game in the dark? Im not sure why you would post such a comment.... the "gimmicky lights" allow people to see their keyboard keys in the dark...


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
What if he needs the other features of the Ultimate?

as in?
an extra usb slot ...as if there weren't already enough on a modern computer.
and headphone passthrough which degrades audio quality...


----------



## IBuyJunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
Do you ever video game in the dark? Im not sure why you would post such a comment.... the "gimmicky lights" allow people to see their keyboard keys in the dark...

Maybe it's because I'm an IT guy and I spend a lot of time on the computer ... but I've never needed to look at the keyboard in the dark ...


----------



## Baiyan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
Do you ever video game in the dark? Im not sure why you would post such a comment.... the "gimmicky lights" allow people to see their keyboard keys in the dark...

It's called a lamp.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
Do you ever video game in the dark? Im not sure why you would post such a comment.... the "gimmicky lights" allow people to see their keyboard keys in the dark...

If you have time to look at your keyboard while gaming you're as good as dead.

Unless you're maybe playing farmville.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
Do you ever video game in the dark? Im not sure why you would post such a comment.... the "gimmicky lights" allow people to see their keyboard keys in the dark...

They're called lights, they even come razer branded...

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.40826600


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
If you have time to look at your keyboard while gaming you're as good as dead.

Unless you're maybe playing farmville.

that's right.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
They're called lights, they even come razer branded...

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.40826600

And why would a keyboard backlight not be good enough for that?


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
And why would a keyboard backlight not be good enough for that?

simple matter of price.
$50 more for the leds or free to simply turn on the freaking lights.


----------



## thiru

In the long run, you'll save money with backlighting. For those of us who pay their electricity.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
simple matter of price.
$50 more for the leds or free to simply turn on the freaking lights.

Yeah, well some people prefer to game in the dark. In addition, some people prefer that the only thing allowing them to see their keys is the keyboard's backlighting.

In other words, some people actually prefer to game in the dark without any lamps on of any kind. This means no little lights shining onto their keyboard, and no other lights.

Don't get me wrong: I can't stand gaming in the dark, nor can I stand using my computer in the dark at all. I always have to have the lights on or else I have increased eye strain. But this doesn't mean that those who prefer using their computer in the dark are tolerating eye strain. Perhaps they just don't get any strain whatsoever.

Anyway, why can't they get what they know they want?


----------



## Moheevi_chess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
simple matter of price.
$50 more for the leds or free to simply turn on the freaking lights.

This is all a matter of opinion. I personally prefer gaming in the dark with my keyboard consumed in a blue glow.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Lol at all the haters of backlighting in here. Umadbro?

Anyways, I cancelled my BW Ultimate pre-order just now and ordered an XArmor U9BL in its place.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
In the long run, you'll save money with backlighting. For those of us who pay their electricity.

in the long run my eyes will be healthier with the lights on







, not that I need any lights to use my keyboard at all

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, well some people prefer to game in the dark. In addition, some people prefer that the only thing allowing them to see their keys is the keyboard's backlighting.

In other words, some people actually prefer to game in the dark without any lamps on of any kind. This means no little lights shining onto their keyboard, and no other lights.

Don't get me wrong: I can't stand gaming in the dark, nor can I stand using my computer in the dark at all. I always have to have the lights on or else I have increased eye strain. But this doesn't mean that those who prefer using their computer in the dark are tolerating eye strain. Perhaps they just don't get any strain whatsoever.

Anyway, why can't they get what they know they want?

This

However I am of the belief that most people who go for backlighting do it for the vanity and not the practicality. They might try and convince themselves its for a practical reason like you attempted to explain but for the most part I'm not buying that reasoning.

As Manyak said, if you have to look at your keyboard while gaming you're as good as dead, at least in any real time game.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
in the long run my eyes will be healthier with the lights on







, not that I need any lights to use my keyboard at all

This

However I am of the belief that most people who go for backlighting do it for the vanity and not the practicality. They might try and convince themselves its for a practical reason like you attempted to explain but for the most part I'm not buying that reasoning.

And neither am I, actually. When I had the Lycosa, I honestly tried to believe that the backlighting had actual practical value for me, but it didn't. I suppose somebody might want me to prove this, so I will: my current keyboard does not have backlighting, and I don't miss it. It taught me that I don't need any backlighting. I suppose we can say that it showed me the light!


----------



## bojinglebells

I would like to note that I see nothing wrong with people wanting back lighting for the aesthetics. I will even admit I think it looks cool, however I don't think it looks cool enough pay extra for it, especially when I think a no-bling/clean/professional look is even cooler.

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Izdaari

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
As Manyak said, if you have to look at your keyboard while gaming you're as good as dead, at least in any real time game.

Yeah, but...

Not all of us gamers play FPS online, or other "look away for a second and you're dead" games. I do play MMORPG's, but generally not PvP. Unless it's heavy action time in a raid, I usually have plenty of time to look at my keyboard.

What kinds of games we play varies as much as our preferences in lighting.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 

Different strokes for different folks.

OCN would be a much better place if everyone understood this...


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
In the long run, you'll save money with backlighting. For those of us who pay their electricity.

3.4V * 0.020A * 104[# of keys] * 24[hours] = 169.72800W for the backlighting
compared to a low wattage bulb for 8 hours
20[watt]*8 = 160

oh and lets not forget that that would be assuming a 100% efficient power supply, which considering they stay around 85% efficient that means
169.728/0.85 = 199.68

last i checked 200watts is more than 160 watts therefore the backlighting costs more.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izdaari* 
Yeah, but...

Not all of us gamers play FPS online, or other "look away for a second and you're dead" games. I do play MMORPG's, but generally not PvP. Unless it's heavy action time in a raid, I usually have plenty of time to look at my keyboard.

What kinds of games we play varies as much as our preferences in lighting.

Yeah, but... I'm still not buying it









Are you telling me you're into gaming enough to where you'll invest a good chunk of change into a gaming peripheral but can't even touch-control the awesome games that inspired such an investment? Just because you might have plenty of time to look at your keyboard doesn't mean you do look at your keyboard (other than to admire how pretty it is) while playing.

Yup, definitely still not buying it.


----------



## TwoCables

Hey Kyle: live and let live. I mean like, you know: stop trolling.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
3.4V * 0.020mA * 104[# of keys] * 24[hours] = 169.72800W for the backlighting
compared to a low wattage bulb for 8 hours
20[watt]*8 = 160

oh and lets not forget that that would be assuming a 100% efficient power supply, which considering they stay around 85% efficient that means
169.728/0.85 = 199.68

last i checked 200watts is more than 160 watts therefore the backlighting costs more.

I'll need proof of the specs of those LEDs please.


----------



## slaney30

The point i was trying to make is that its up for the purchaser to decide if they want the LED lights. Its not for anyone to say its a stupid idea to do it. The old saying is "to each their own". I personally like backlit keyboards, I dont like having a lamp right next to my keyboard, thats where my beer goes.

You can find the ulitmate black widow for as cheap as 96$ plus shipping. Thats what about 20-30 bucks more than the non ultimate edition.


----------



## Turbonerd

I don't need a fridge light to find the beers in the fridge, same way i dont need leds to know where wasd are.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
3.4V * 0.020mA * 104[# of keys] * 24[hours] = 169.72800W for the backlighting
compared to a low wattage bulb for 8 hours
20[watt]*8 = 160

oh and lets not forget that that would be assuming a 100% efficient power supply, which considering they stay around 85% efficient that means
169.728/0.85 = 199.68

last i checked 200watts is more than 160 watts therefore the backlighting costs more.

haha...It obviously never occurred to you exactly HOW far off you are.

3.4V * 0.020mA * 104 keys = 7.07*mW* <-- *MILLI*watts

7.07mW * 24Hrs = 169mWh <-- *MILLIwatt*-hours per day

169mWh * 30 = 5.07Wh <-- watt-hours per month

Your electric company counts kWh (KILOwatt-hours), and might charge, for example, around 8 cents per kWh. That means that the backlighting costs you a grand total of 0.04 cents per month. That's *less than a penny*.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
haha...It obviously never occurred to you exactly HOW far off you are.

3.4V * 0.020mA * 104 keys = 7.07*mW* <-- *MILLI*watts

7.07mW * 24Hrs = 169mWh <-- *MILLIwatt*-hours per day

169mWh * 30 = 5.07Wh <-- watt-hours per month

Your electric company counts kWh (KILOwatt-hours), and might charge, for example, around 8 cents per kWh. That means that the backlighting costs you a grand total of 0.04 cents per month. That's *less than a penny*.

Rofl... owned. Didn't even see that


----------



## KingT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
haha...It obviously never occurred to you exactly HOW far off you are.

3.4V * 0.020mA * 104 keys = 7.07*mW* <-- *MILLI*watts

7.07mW * 24Hrs = 169mWh <-- *MILLIwatt*-hours per day

169mWh * 30 = 5.07Wh <-- watt-hours per month

Your electric company counts kWh (KILOwatt-hours), and might charge, for example, around 8 cents per kWh. That means that the backlighting costs you a grand total of 0.04 cents per month. That's *less than a penny*.

NICE ONE..









CHEERS..


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
The point i was trying to make is that its up for the purchaser to decide if they want the LED lights. Its not for anyone to say its a stupid idea to do it. The old saying is "to each their own". I personally like backlit keyboards, I dont like having a lamp right next to my keyboard, thats where my beer goes.

You can find the ulitmate black widow for as cheap as 96$ plus shipping. Thats what about 20-30 bucks more than the non ultimate edition.

after shipping and tax the cheapest I can find the BWU is ~$110, whereas I just ordered the BW this morning for $69.99 shipped from newegg (already have a tracking number too, and it should be here Friday







).

but it is nice to see the BWU being offered for less so soon, definitely seems more reasonable given the feature differences


----------



## fssbzz

they are $69 shipped in Newegg right now.
not the ultimate version, but the regular no light version.
which might be a good price for a typing keyboard. or casual gamer


----------



## tombom

I like the backlighting only because I hate typing at night without being able to look at the keys. I'm not the greatest non-looker typer. I can type pretty fast though.


----------



## slaney30

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
after shipping and tax the cheapest I can find the BWU is ~$110, whereas I just ordered the BW this morning for $69.99 shipped from newegg (already have a tracking number too, and it should be here Friday







).

but it is nice to see the BWU being offered for less so soon, definitely seems more reasonable given the feature differences

http://www.provantage.com/razer-rz03...1~7RAZA03U.htm

although it might not be in stock yet...


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
http://www.provantage.com/razer-rz03...1~7RAZA03U.htm

although it might not be in stock yet...

provatage shipping fees are killer.


----------



## slaney30

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
provatage shipping fees are killer.

$7.45 for shipping. so the total to wisconsin is $103.60

So i'm not sure 7 bucks for shipping is extreme. It could be different depending on location.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
$7.45 for shipping. so the total to wisconsin is $103.60

So i'm not sure 7 bucks for shipping is extreme. It could be different depending on location.

that's cheap.
sometimes it even go up to $20..
it might be cheap for BW tho.
they usually cheap on the product and ex on shipping.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slaney30* 
http://www.provantage.com/razer-rz03...1~7RAZA03U.htm

although it might not be in stock yet...

like I said, shipping and tax makes it $110 for me









at any rate I've made it clear already in this thread I have no interest in back lighting, and that I already ordered the regular version.

Also, I ordered a BlackWidow only because I want to try Cherry Blue switches as I have yet to experience them and really have no intention to replace my 6Gv2's Black switches with anything other than keyboard with Red ones







.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
like I said, shipping and tax makes it $110 for me









at any rate I've made it clear already in this thread I have no interest in back lighting, and that I already ordered the regular version.

Also, I ordered a BlackWidow only because I want to try Cherry Blue switches as I have yet to experience them and really have no intention to replace my 6Gv2's Black switches with anything other than keyboard with Red ones







.

should just get RK-9000. which is way better.








it is worth to get while is on sale tho.
NKRO. and Awesome build quality.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
should just get RK-9000. which is way better.








it is worth to get while is on sale tho.
NKRO. and Awesome build quality.

how is it way better? Its ~$108 shipped vs. $70 shipped...and as I've said many times, I already ordered the BlackWidow.

And again, like I already explained, I have no intention to replace my 6Gv2 as my primary and/or gaming board (which is at least the same class as the RK-9000 if not better but with Cherry Blacks instead of Blues and also has media key functionality and full NKRO/6KRO with PS2/USB) with a board using tactile switches as I love the linears for my gaming too much


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
how is it way better? Its ~$108 shipped vs. $70 shipped...and as I've said many times, I already ordered the BlackWidow.

And again, like I already explained, I have no intention to replace my 6Gv2 as my primary and/or gaming board (which is at least the same class as the RK-9000 if not better but with Cherry Blacks instead of Blues and also has media key functionality and full NKRO/6KRO with PS2/USB) with a board using tactile switches as I love the linears for my gaming too much

as i said it too.
is worth to get it when they go on sale. just a suggestion
if fine, you don have to change or replace your current 6Gv2, LOL, i never force you to get Rk-9000 to replace your 6Gv2, just an suggestion and opinion







did i sound like im forcing you to get RK-9000? i hope not..
ya, you already ordered BW. good choice and good for you.


----------



## Izdaari

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
Yeah, but... I'm still not buying it









Are you telling me you're into gaming enough to where you'll invest a good chunk of change into a gaming peripheral but can't even touch-control the awesome games that inspired such an investment? Just because you might have plenty of time to look at your keyboard doesn't mean you do look at your keyboard (other than to admire how pretty it is) while playing.

Yup, definitely still not buying it.

It's for more than just gaming. I'd like to have the backlighting even if it was just for controlling movie settings or for posting on OCN. Is it worth it for $50? That's pretty subjective. I like to compute in dim light if not total darkness, and though I do touch-type, I'm not a terrific typist. I know some of the keyboard aces like their blank key caps, but I couldn't do that. I can't always remember where some of the keys are, especially the less frequently used ones. WASD, no problem, but if I need F7 or ] there's a good chance I may have to look at the keyboard. either that or get it wrong 4-5 times before I get it by trial and error. That's especially so when my hands have been off of the keyboard, maybe mousing or maybe drinking a cup of tea. I 'spose I could get a small lamp that'd shine just on the keyboard, but it'd probably put some glare where I don't want it.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
as i said it too.
is worth to get it when they go on sale. just a suggestion
if fine, you don have to change or replace your current 6Gv2, LOL, i never force you to get Rk-9000 to replace your 6Gv2, just an suggestion and opinion







did i sound like im forcing you to get RK-9000? i hope not..
ya, you already ordered BW. good choice and good for you.









I just found it strange for you to offer a suggestion to spend more money (or wait around for sale) for an additional keyboard when replying to post of mine where I had _just said_ I bought a BW almost strictly just to try Cherry Blues and had no intention to replace my 6Gv2...it just seemed mistimed and/or really out of place is all

Things would be different if you knew of an economical Cherry Red board and recommended it instead of the Rosewill, because that's the only thing my post suggested I might be interested in additional information on


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
I just found it strange for you to offer a suggestion to spend more money (or wait around for sale) for an additional keyboard when replying to post of mine where I had _just said_ I bought a BW almost strictly just to try Cherry Blues and had no intention to replace my 6Gv2...it just seemed mistimed and/or really out of place is all

Things would be different if you knew of an economical Cherry Red board and recommended it instead of the Rosewill, because that's the only thing my post suggested I might be interested in additional information on









i will not recommend cherry red. because the only option available is G80-3494.
unless you can find the limited edition one that Ducky make as collector addition.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13156
G80-3494?
http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...33&c=A05&tm=u#
they got promo shipping to world wide for only $20
you can get it here, but only on chinese version, still it will works fine because is QWERTY layout.just with chinese font.
the keyboard quality are ok. good material, but the keyboard build need to be stronger.
is keyboard are super light, it feels like an empty big plastic cover, with nothing but awesome cherry mx red.
IMO,
best to type on.
best to game on.
It probably broke if it drop from >3 feet table.


----------



## bojinglebells

yeah the G80-3494 is the only board I know of and that's also the only site I know of to order it from

I would probably be willing to kill someone, in front of their of their own mamma, for that Ducky though


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
yeah the G80-3494 is the only board I know of and that's also the only site I know of to order it from

I would probably be willing to kill someone, in front of their of their own mamma, for that Ducky though









they release different version every, and is all limited edition. using better material, better PCB. is a collector edition.
they have that this year (Tiger year in chinese) too. but no cherry mx red.the cherry mx red is last year (Cow year) thats the word that engrave on the keyboard.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izdaari* 
That's especially so when my hands have been off of the keyboard, maybe mousing or maybe drinking a cup of tea.

I never found that to be a problem. My Das doesn't have backlighting and I never had an issue searching for keys after taking my hand off the keyboard. 9 times out of 10 I immediately find the home row because I try to keep my keyboard in a constant space relative to where I'm sitting, so my finger position itself corresponds with the home keys. That 1 time out of 10, I or my keyboard shifts for whatever reason and all I really need to do then is search for the home row, which takes all of one second. From there, I can extrapolate every other key I need.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
I never found that to be a problem. My Das doesn't have backlighting and I never had an issue searching for keys after taking my hand off the keyboard. 9 times out of 10 I immediately find the home row because I try to keep my keyboard in a constant space relative to where I'm sitting, so my finger position itself corresponds with the home keys. That 1 time out of 10, I or my keyboard shifts for whatever reason and all I really need to do then is search for the home row, which takes all of one second. From there, I can extrapolate every other key I need.

Same with me. My fingers just "know" where home row is so even in pitch black I can find any key I might need.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Got my normal blackwidow yesterday, I am loving this mechanical feel, but I am really missing the leds when I glance down sometimes, maybe cause its new and I don't have that sense of key placement yet. I might return and wait for the led ones to get in stock. But I am really liking the keyboard, I dunno if I can wait a month going back to some dome keyboard after this.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
Got my normal blackwidow yesterday, I am loving this mechanical feel, but I am really missing the leds when I glance down sometimes, maybe cause its new and I don't have that sense of key placement yet. I might return and wait for the led ones to get in stock. But I am really liking the keyboard, I dunno if I can wait a month going back to some dome keyboard after this.

I think the only thing I'm not used to is the F row as well as the esc key. Glad to see you're enjoying the normal one. Its definitely not bad for its price.


----------



## Khaotik55

I wish I could type using homerow, but I've been typing with 4 fingers for at least 7 years.

(WASD fingers + right index.)

70-90WPM average. 129WPM max I've ever done.

When you type that fast using 4 fingers, for that long. Trying to learn homerow and getting 40WPM with 20% mistakes, sucks. Even when you aren't getting mistakes you go back to old habits such as using wrong fingers for wrong keys. It's very hard to adapt... I don't think I'll EVER be able to use homerow properly.









If I can get 100+ WPM with 4 fingers, I'm curious what I can do with 8. I just can't be bothered to learn it all over again.


You Tube





That is my mother, no basement jokes. I'm only 17









Wooooahhh, off topic. I might get the Black Widow. There.


----------



## gordesky1

Just got another email from Oliver with a tracking number and said he checked on my order today and its been shipped today









So its coming









So far customer service been really good too me







, They Always gets back in hour or couple hours and latest would be a day.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
Just got another email from Oliver with a tracking number and said he checked on my order today and its been shipped today









So its coming









So far customer service been really good too me







, They Always gets back in hour or couple hours and latest would be a day.

Similarly here, got a personalized [or what seems to be] from Chan Gent Ho saying he's terribly sorry for the wait and I should have a tracking number soon.

Wake up this morning, boom tracking number









Though to add to the super-cool-ness, seems they threw in an Armadillo2 for free, as it's part of my order for $0.00









Next week Tuesday









Glad I sent Gent an email with a low of sad faces ^^


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7* 
Similarly here, got a personalized [or what seems to be] from Chan Gent Ho saying he's terribly sorry for the wait and I should have a tracking number soon.


Westward HO!


----------



## Munkypoo7

It's arrived, this is my first post with it too









Absolutely love it, and I'm extremely surprised as well. I expected it to be more difficult to use, but I was way off, the keys are super light, can't wait to have to start an essay with this next semester!

MMORPG's and FPS's play extremely well too, dunno why but my fingers fly through keys now ^^

<3 my BlackWidow Ultimate


----------



## rpgman1

Glad that you enjoy your BWU. I'll get my first mechanical keyboard next month. Typing up research papers and PC gaming are quite common for college students.


----------



## gordesky1

Just got my BlackWidow Ultimate too today And so far i like it, The build Quality is also really good, And it seems a bit more solid than the xarmor which i also got, Problee because of the thick glossy caseing. And the usb port is much better built than on the xarmor too sense it doesn't loose connection like the usb ports on my xarmor does.. Problee will rma that soon.

Oh and the keys has a different sound too than the xarmor and feel when you push them down, like it has a bit more force than the xarmor and its a bit quieter which i like loud more but this is fine.

But other than that both keyboards are great! And i recommend both of them, But the widow might be my main keyboard for now on


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


It's arrived, this is my first post with it too









Absolutely love it, and I'm extremely surprised as well. I expected it to be more difficult to use, but I was way off, the keys are super light, can't wait to have to start an essay with this next semester!

MMORPG's and FPS's play extremely well too, dunno why but my fingers fly through keys now ^^

<3 my BlackWidow Ultimate


Why did you expect it to be more difficult to use?

Also, the reason why your fingers are flying through it is because the Cherry MX Blues are generally the best mechanical switch for typing. But one of the reasons why some gamers hate them is because the reset point is above the actuation point in the key travel. So this means double-tapping can sometimes not even happen since the switch has to be allowed to come all the way back up prior to the 2nd tap. But that's fine for me because my technique isn't polished anyway (I have a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click).









But another reason is just because it's a mechanical keyboard with high quality mechanical switches!


----------



## int3nsee

I ordered a BW from Newegg yesterday for $56, after a promo dropped the price another $14. I can't wait for it to come in, ('twas will be my first mechanical keyboard). Quick question though, is there any differences between the BW and the BWU aside from the backlighting?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *int3nsee*


I ordered a BW from Newegg yesterday for $56, after a promo dropped the price another $14. I can't wait for it to come in, ('twas will be my first mechanical keyboard). Quick question though, is there any differences between the BW and the BWU aside from the backlighting?


Here are all of the differences:


----------



## skimskim3074

It seems there're not too much differences.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skimskim3074;11653577*
> It seems there're not too much differences.


Yeah, only 3 differences. But the backlighting is an expensive part because it's a mechanical keyboard. I mean, there has to be one LED bulb for each key as opposed to just having a bunch that spread light throughout the keyboard. So, there's an individual LED bulb mounted for each switch which should actually raise the cost to something a little higher than it actually is.


----------



## int3nsee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11653620*
> Yeah, only 3 differences. But the backlighting is an expensive part because it's a mechanical keyboard. I mean, there has to be one LED bulb for each key as opposed to just having a bunch that spread light throughout the keyboard. So, there's an individual LED bulb mounted for each switch which should actually raise the cost to something a little higher than it actually is.


Ah, thanks for the quick reply









Not having the blacklighting and the extra ports will be a bit of a downer but I'll see how it goes once I get it tomorrow!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *int3nsee;11653650*
> Ah, thanks for the quick reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not having the blacklighting and the extra ports will be a bit of a downer but I'll see how it goes once I get it tomorrow!


I used to have the Razer Lycosa which has the backlighting and extra ports, and then I upgraded to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click which is essentially just a plain 104-key keyboard. But, being that it's a high-quality mechanical keyboard, I don't miss any of the extra features of the Lycosa _whatsoever_. I wouldn't go back to the Lycosa even if I were paid insane amounts of money to do it.

So, I am confident you won't mind.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11653347*
> Why did you expect it to be more difficult to use?


Tbh I'm not sure... I always held the improper assumption that since it's more of a "switch" than a dome, and rubber is typically more flexible.. idk it just made sense to me that it would be a harder typing experience, definitely wrong








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11653347*
> Also, the reason why your fingers are flying through it is because the Cherry MX Blues are generally the best mechanical switch for typing. But one of the reasons why some gamers hate them is because the reset point is above the actuation point in the key travel. So this means double-tapping can sometimes not even happen since the switch has to be allowed to come all the way back up prior to the 2nd tap. But that's fine for me because my technique isn't polished anyway (I have a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click).


Hmm, good to know actually! Oddly enough, seems my technique isn't refined as well, since double tapping isnt an issue for me yet... I'm used to letting the key rise then retapping, no idea why, but in this case seems it's good lol

Rawrrr.. must type moreeeeee!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7;11654688*
> Tbh I'm not sure... I always held the improper assumption that since it's more of a "switch" than a dome, and rubber is typically more flexible.. idk it just made sense to me that it would be a harder typing experience, definitely wrong


Ha, if you had asked me this before ordering, then I would be like, _"If it makes for a harder typing experience, then why is there nearly a cult following of mechanical keyboards?"_. But now you know why we're all so crazy about mechanical keyboards!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7;11654688*
> Hmm, good to know actually! Oddly enough, seems my technique isn't refined as well, since double tapping isnt an issue for me yet... I'm used to letting the key rise then retapping, no idea why, but in this case seems it's good lol
> 
> Rawrrr.. must type moreeeeee!


Yeah, I can't help but make two quick hits right in a row as opposed to a nice clean double-tap. So when I try to tell somebody about the double-tapping issue, I sometimes think _"I'm wasting my time..."_. hehe


----------



## gonX

Riding the actuation point is a bit hard if you didn't even do it on the domes. That's why most people aren't affected by the lower actuation than reset point.


----------



## ripster

Technically it would be very difficult to ride the actuation point on a rubber dome.

It's at the bottom of the keypress.








photo from GH Mechanical Keyboard guide, copyright Cfishy, all rights reserved

Double tapping is easy. This is why all the Blue Cherry Hysteresis Hysteria is overblown.


----------



## TwoCables

Riding the actuation point on a rubber dome means riding the point at which it's a fine line between the dome giving way and it not.


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## ripster

That's riding the tactile point. Different thing.









Also from the GH Beginners Guide.


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## TwoCables

Sigh. No.

Riding the tactile point on a fresh rubber dome keyboard is basically riding the actuation point.

But this is a dumb argument.


----------



## ripster

It's not dumb. It's physics.

And Science is a 14".....


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11655978*
> It's not dumb. It's physics.
> 
> And Science is a 14".....


The reason why I said it's dumb is because anyone who has ever used a fresh rubber dome and a good tactile mechanical keyboard should know that riding the tactile point on a rubber dome is essentially the same as riding the actuation point. Why? Because as soon as the rubber dome gives in, it's almost instant actuation unless you are purposefully being gentle so as to avoid actuation.


----------



## ripster

We're not supposed to talk about food in this thread.

THAT I remember.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11656888*
> We're not supposed to talk about food in this thread.
> 
> THAT I remember.


Are you ever going to let it go?!?!?! Let the damn past be passed!


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11656888*
> We're not supposed to talk about food in this thread.
> 
> THAT I remember.


ROFL. Okay I have to admit that was pretty funny. I mean the first time you said it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;11657034*
> ROFL. Okay I have to admit that was pretty funny. I mean the first time you said it.


Exactly!

It's like: dude, move forward.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

So anyway, I really like this PC Reveal ergonomic board, it's just that white Alps aren't for me. I *might* keep it... if it's possible to mount the SMKs from my Chicony onto this. What would it take to mount SMK Montereys to a board made for Alps?


----------



## tersagun

As a dissappointing note, the white marking on WASD keys already became gray, in one (1) week of use.


----------



## fssbzz

aw that's not a good sign


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tersagun;11657919*
> As a dissappointing note, the white marking on WASD keys already became gray, in one (1) week of use.


Is this the standard or the Ultimate?


----------



## Jeffro422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;11658112*
> Is this the standard or the Ultimate?


Pretty sure he has the standard version, we'll see how mine holds up.

I can't imagine it fading that quickly given that there should have been some extensive testing done by Razer or at least in some of the comments Razer has made it's seemed there was a lot of testing involved.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422;11659136*
> Pretty sure he has the standard version, we'll see how mine holds up.
> 
> I can't imagine it fading that quickly given that there should have been some extensive testing done by Razer or at least in some of the comments Razer has made it's seemed there was a lot of testing involved.


Yeah, but it's still Razer.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422;11659136*
> Pretty sure he has the standard version, we'll see how mine holds up.
> 
> I can't imagine it fading that quickly given that there should have been some extensive testing done by Razer or at least in some of the comments Razer has made it's seemed there was a lot of testing involved.


Razer are compulsive liars.

It's not like they have much choice in keycaps. iOne provides:
1. Decal pad print
2. Rather poor laser etching and filling
3. Convoluted dyesub/rubber coat/laser keys (for backlit)

They chose #2.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Razer are compulsive liars.

It's not like they have much choice in keycaps. iOne provides:
1. Decal pad print
2. Rather poor laser etching and filling
3. Convoluted dyesub/rubber coat/laser keys (for backlit)

They chose #2.


hehe of course they did. It's Razer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;11660319*
> Razer are compulsive liars.
> 
> It's not like they have much choice in keycaps. iOne provides:
> 1. Decal pad print
> 2. Rather poor laser etching and filling
> 3. Convoluted dyesub/rubber coat/laser keys (for backlit)
> 
> They chose #2.


Blackwidow's keys have a coating on them. It's not thick. There is a coating on them.


----------



## tersagun

Yeah, it's the regular version
This is the pic to show it. I know it's awful quality but if you look close, you can see the difference between AS and ZX


----------



## ripster

I don't believe these have a UV clear coat like the Filcos or many other keyboards. That's part of the problem because it makes some peoples Lasered keys fade faster depending on body chemistry, fingernails and usage patterns.

Flip the key and you can see "water spots" if it was UV Clear coated.

Filco








From the GH All About Keys Wiki

Razer Non-Backlit








From the GH Key Reference Wiki


----------

