# OCN's Most Recommended Audio Products



## pez

This is probably the third revision of this thread now, but the first time for me. Personally I think the original was wordy, so we'll try and keep this a bit more concise.

There's a ton of options that exist to the point that this can be a pretty overwhelming decision to make. We're here to help ease this decision. We are going to go based on a few factors:


What budget you have.
What type of listener you are. (i.e. primarily music, gaming, etc.)
What features you need or desire. ( ie. open back closed back)

We are going to break this up into sections of Headphones, IEMs, Headsets, DACs, Sound cards, Amps, (etc/placeholder). Items will be listed in ascending order based on price and each headphone recommendation will also come with a short and to-the-point description of what the headphone offers or at least does best.

*Headphones*

*Audio-Technica ATH-M50x* - $149.00 (Closed, Portable, All-Rounder)
This headphone is known for being a great first foray into audio for most people. The headphone is bassy, though not over-exaggerated or bloated. These remain neutral through the midrange and treble which isn't common with a lot of headphones in this price bracket (DT770). Overall, the headphones are fairly comfy, though they won't rival the likes of the DT770. Aftermarket pads are popular for these including a velour option that sweeten the deal.

*Massdrop x Fostex T-X0* - $149.99 (Massdrop edition of the T50RP MKII, *pending sound test*)
Just basing this off of the FQ graph -- bassier version with more tame mids, with a leather headband and velour/protein leather hybrid earpads.

*Fostex T50RP MKIII* - $159.99 (Semi-Open, Planar Magnetic (RIP), mid-happy, punchy)
THE DIY headphone that has created a cult of modding enthusiast who strive to get every last drop of performance from these inexpensive headphones. With proper mods, these headphones can punch way above their price point. 
To boot; punchy bass, forward mids and an open sound. Decent soundstage that is better than closed back headphones, but not as good as fully open headphones.

*Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohm, 250ohm* - $166.02, $160.01 (v-shaped sound signature with recessed mids, sparkly highs, exaggerated bass and a narrow soundstage)
Great headphone for EDM, rap and pop music, but not much else. The lack of midrange doesn't give confidence in other types of music such as rock, etc. Super comfortable, and built like a tank. Not so ideal for gaming due to the lack of soundstage.

*Fostex TH-X00 Mahoganny, Purpleheart, Ebony* - $399.00, $449.00, 499.00 (closed-back, mid-happy and bass-centric, surprisingly open sounding for closed back headphones)
Fostex' vision of what a successor to the famous Denon AH-D5000. There are three versions of this headphone that come with different wooden cups. The cups impart their own sonic characteristics to the overall tone. In ascending order of price, we have Mahoganny, Purpleheart, and Ebony editions.


Mahoganny - Middle of the pack for bass, forward midrange and recessed treble
Purpleheart - Most bass of the trio, more v-shaped sound with more present mids and highs than the other two
Ebony - Least bass of the trio, but only slightly and has a more linear sound signature that should be more pleasing to those who are sensitive to midrange

*AKG K7XX* - $199.99 (Massdrop's version of the Q701)
Shares many of the same sound characteristics that the Q701 has with a slightly better bass and a more pleasing sound to most that would generally find the Q701 fatiguing or even grating. Beware that some QC issues have been reported with the elastic strings of the headband. This is possibly fixed by now, though).

*Sennheiser HD6XX* - $199.99 (Massdrop's version of the HD650; open-back, relaxed sound with a good bass response and extension, good soundstage)

Massdrop's version of the classic icon. This is the same headphone offered at a lower price of $200. If you are able to get them at this price, there's no reason to choose the HD650 over these unless you just really dislike the dark/navy blue colorway. These headphones are still made in the same factory as the HD650, so quality issues outside of the normal occurance should not exist. See the HD650 description for info on the sound of these.

*Beyerdynamic DT880 250, 600* - $219.00 (Great soundstage and very open sound with a fairly neutral sound -- errs on the side of being 'bright' or 'sparkly')
Another great headphone for gaming and those looking for a fairly neutral headphone. This headphones 'suffers' from the normal sparkly treble that the Beyer line is known for. Bass is punchy, but mids do take a backseat to the highs by nature. Great for gaming as they have a wide soundstage. Rock, metal, and hardcore (and just about every one of its' subgenres) benefit the greatest from this headphone. Be warned, the treble will bother those that are sensitive to it.

- Sennheiser HD600

*AKG Q701* - $249.91 (Bright and forward highs, open sound stage, a little bass light but still has enough to make most people content, forward and clear mids)
Awesome headphones for people who are looking for headphones that offer a mix of gaming performance and sound quality for music. The bumps on the headband can potentially cause some people discomfort after an extended period of time. These headphones have a tendency to sound harsh when paired with a bright sounding amp. A slight eq or a warmer sounding amp such as a tube amp would pair very well with these headphones.

*Sennheiser **HD600* - $286.12 (open-back, neutral sound with a tight bass response; very popular for it's smooth yet unoffending midrange)

Great headphone for those looking for a neutral headphone that can do just about everything well that isn't bass-heavy. The bass errs on the side of being punchy, though a bit light for some (certain amplification can affect this). This headphone shines in the midrange where it remains slightly forward, yet smooth enough that it doesn't become fatiguing. Pair that with the neutral highs that are pleasing, if not perfect for those that don't care much for the DT880 or Q701.

*Sennheiser HD650 *- $375.14 (open-back, relaxed sound with a good bass response and extension, good soundstage)

These headphones were always classified as dark in a world where the DT880, 990 and the K701 were their main competitors. You have tame highs, present mids without being overly forward and a very decent bass slam and extension. These scale nearly infinitely with better amplification, but they do great on entry level stuff as well.

*Headsets*

**Under construction**

*Amps*

**Under construction**

*DACs*

**Under construction**

*Sound Cards*

**Under construction*


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## jacobthellamer

Nice guide!


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## Varjo

Looks good, but you neglected the home theater HD. If you want loss-less surround sound, EAX, and the ability to use the higher quality DACs in a nice receiver, it's your only option. Sure it's a niche product, but it deserves a mention.

Otherwise, great job man!


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## Crag

nice one mate
Although i have a small point
In the comparision between the STX and th ST you did'nt mention the daughter chip (the H6)
I dont know ,but i think some people might care about such thing
And again really great work

EDIT small numbering issue
Its (4- audiophiles) wirtten 3 again
Thats all


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Varjo;13493488*
> Looks good, but you neglected the home theater HD. If you want loss-less surround sound, EAX, and the ability to use the higher quality DACs in a nice receiver, it's your only option. Sure it's a niche product, but it deserves a mention.
> 
> Otherwise, great job man!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crag;13493521*
> nice one mate
> Although i have a small point
> In the comparision between the STX and th ST you did'nt mention the daughter chip (the H6)
> I dont know ,but i think some people might care about such thing
> And again really great work


Yes, please continue to give me suggestions on what to add to the list. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I will most definitely add these things. I'm currently writing up the headphone section first though, so please give me a few hours to get to it, but I will most definitely get to it.

I was also reminded by SavageBunny that it wasn't so apparent that if someone doesn't have a PCI-E slot they should go for the Xonar D1 which is the PCI version. I will also add that very soon.


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## Varjo

One more note, I can personalty attest to the quality of the Zero DAC. It's pretty fantastic for such a cheep pricepoint. I use one to drive a set of HD650s and it does a great job.

Edit:

Since you're writing a headphone section I figured I'd weigh on on a few I have played with.

I really like Scheinhizers for their musicality. They aren't the correct choice (generally) for heavy beat driven songs, but they are musical, accurate, have a wide soundstage, and have a nice, clear, "laid back" sound that is the Sennheiser signature.

Also, if you're doing a headphone and soundcard section, make sure you mention the huge advantage that having a card with either Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D brings to the table for movies. It really is a much more pleasant experience listening to dialogue with either of those two enabled. It keeps the voices from all sounding like they are in your head.

The hd555s are a great place to start, and have nice positional accuracy for videogames, though are a tad base light. I would caution people against the hd595s, I find them to be an odd headphone. The sound doesn't match most of the other Sennheisers, it is a heavier sound.... I really wasn't a fan.

Obviously, for the higher end, the 650s are amazing. With an amp driving them they can literally do it all, one of the most amazing and versatile headphones I have ever listened to, they rival my ascend 340SEs for clarity and sound-stage.

For a more base heavy experiance at right arround 100 bucks, I liked the ATH-A700s, though not as accurate as the 555s, the base is larger and the sound is still nice.

I was less of a fan of the open backed ATH-AD700 version, I found it to be slightly upstaged by the hd555s.

Anyway, just figured I'd weigh in.


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## Kand

I'd like to mention the Sennheiser HD201 for the $30 price point. I used to be a hater of headsets/headphones, with my experience of such not that favorable with the headphones/headsets I'd use as either bulky, uncomfortable, heavy on the head and wears out my earlobes after half an hour of use.

These Sennheisers, they're awesome. That's the only word for it. Albeit an entry level set of Headphones, they've got great bass, noise cancellation, very pronounced mid-tones and in closing I have been turned and actually prefer them over my large speakers these days. Mainly because I've somewhat gotten conscious about having my volume up too high in the wee hours of the morning.. =P


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## Crazy9000

Nice list. Denon D2000 are a good higher end buy when they go below 300, as they frequently do. http://www.buy.com/prod/denon-ah-d2000-high-performance-stereo-headphone-stereo-denon-ah-d2000/q/sellerid/18465621/loc/101/206928680.html


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## ZHoob2004

might want to mention a few of the diy options as far as dacs such as the grubdac or others.

other than that it's looking nice so far.


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## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZHoob2004;13493719*
> might want to mention a few of the diy options as far as dacs such as the grubdac or others.
> 
> other than that it's looking nice so far.


Yup, if you have the skill to do so. Very cheap (lower end DACs) and effective.


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## Iceman23

How are you planning on separating the headphones? Obviously price and gaming/music but beyond that there are great headphones that sound completely different - maybe based on general music genres?


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## tkrist

Nice thread. I plan on buying a sound card soon so this is great. Thanks!

Will you be adding speaker recommendations as well?


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## WildEast

"Creative XtremeGamer/Music"
Is that the same as Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio?


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## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WildEast;13493975*
> "Creative XtremeGamer/Music"
> Is that the same as Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio?


No it's not.

The XtremeAudio is actually a rebranded Audigy SE. The XtremeGamer and XtremeMusic have an actual X-Fi chip and not software emulated like the XtremeAudio.


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZHoob2004;13493719*
> might want to mention a few of the diy options as far as dacs such as the grubdac or others.
> 
> other than that it's looking nice so far.


Excellent point. Will add that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13493906*
> How are you planning on separating the headphones? Obviously price and gaming/music but beyond that there are great headphones that sound completely different - maybe based on general music genres?


So far I've put them into the following categories: Strictly Gaming, Compromised Gaming, Bassy, Rock/Metal, Classical & Jazz

After that, I'll simply have to stop and allow people to post if they have interest in any other genres/types. Can't post them all.







Good question.

After that, I can no lo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkrist;13493937*
> Nice thread. I plan on buying a sound card soon so this is great. Thanks!
> 
> Will you be adding speaker recommendations as well?


Yes, I will, but only up to a certain point. There are many many speakers you could honestly buy and I won't at all get most of them, but according to the thread, I will recommend the most recommended.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WildEast;13493975*
> "Creative XtremeGamer/Music"
> Is that the same as Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio?


No, it's not. I would not recommend the Xtreme Audio.


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## jigglylizard

So when is this getting stickied?


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## roadlesstraveled

Great post so far. I look forward to reading the headphones section.


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## Simca

Added the Headphone/Headset and Speakers Section to the second post. I am in the process of adding/making all the changes you have brought up and I've agreed are a necessary point to this thread.

I've pretty much been doing nothing but typing this up for all these hours. Only took a 20 minute break for dinner.


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## wupah

Nice work; I love these compilations.

It might be worth adding some DAC and or amp recommendations ?


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wupah;13495411*
> Nice work; I love these compilations.
> 
> It might be worth adding some DAC and or amp recommendations ?


I did throw in some DAC/AMP combos, but perhaps I could toss in some stand alone amp suggestions, still, these cost a lot of money and I think people would honestly be better off researching this in more depth than a simple "highly recommended" thread can offer.

Some people like cheap amps. IMO, I wouldn't pay for a stand alone amp unless I dropped 600 dollars on one. See what I mean?


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## wupah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;13495560*
> I did throw in some DAC/AMP combos, but perhaps I could toss in some stand alone amp suggestions, still, these cost a lot of money and I think people would honestly be better off researching this in more depth than a simple "highly recommended" thread can offer.
> 
> Some people like cheap amps. IMO, I wouldn't pay for a stand alone amp unless I dropped 600 dollars on one. See what I mean?


Absolutely, I was just thinking that you might have some insight on which standalone amps are good value. Took me a while and a lot of forum reading before I purchased mine. And I paid more than 600$









In the end it most likely comes down to personal preference.

either way I like this list, nice work!


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## blur510

Nice post Simca!! much respect homiez..


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## Live_free

Awesome guide, but the Ultrasone Pro 550s you mentioned as being 150 are mostly found around 200, and more common at 180. So you may want to change that.


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## chinesekiwi

Just need a few corrections to make it more accurate:

*the MMX300 is a DT770 32ohm.

Quote of the slight differences sound wise between the different impedance models:

from http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more#post_6938759
Quote:


> - 32Ohm
> The 32Ohm model of the DT770 is closer sounding to the 250Ohm and 600Ohm models than it is to the 80Ohm model. The most striking difference is that they have far less bass than the 80Ohm model, but also are fuller sounding. The bass on the 32Ohm's is tight and controlled but rather light on impact. If I had to rate it's impact I would say it's like the DT880/250, but even less than those. The high while quite extended and detailed but has a slight edge to them, but not grating or strident sounding. All of the DT line (DT770-DT990) has a treble oriented sound, so the DT770 will emphasize this. Now the mids, while fuller than the 250Ohm and 80Ohm models, are there but still recessed to a degree. The mids are clear, detailed, and possess decent transparency. Now the soundstage is smaller than the 80Ohm and 250Ohm and has an "in your head" sound to it. The dynamics of this model seem slightly lower compared to the 250Ohm version, but it's hard to tell.


*Also I'd put the Ultrasone PRO550's in the 'compromising gamer' section udner the $150 section, as the S-Logic works much better in the Pro(line) series than the HFI series.

* A great 'rock/metal' headphone for $300 is the Alessandro MS2 as well, which is of course liek the MS1, a Grado OEM.

* The Alienware Ozma 5 *is not* the same as the PRO550. The Alienware Ozma 5 is an OEM'ed HFI-580. The HFI series is noticeably different than the PRO series.

* Also maybe passive setups for speakers?


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## Spooony

What about the DTS-610 for those who like their gaming 5.1 via digital?

Twin 18" Elemental Designs A7-900 thats epic yeah!!

Great thread OP


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Live_free;13498214*
> Awesome guide, but the Ultrasone Pro 550s you mentioned as being 150 are mostly found around 200, and more common at 180. So you may want to change that.


$160

http://www.adorama.com/ULPRO550.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

Was going as low as $150 on ebay.


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## chalkbluffgrown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spooony;13498266*
> What about the DTS-610 for those who like their gaming 5.1 via digital?
> 
> Twin 18" Elemental Designs A7-900 thats epic yeah!!
> 
> Great thread OP


You are posting that over and over about the Creative DTS-610 here and at the HardOCP forums. Why must you keep doing that?

Recommending something you like is cool, but why so much?


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Live_free;13498214*
> Awesome guide, but the Ultrasone Pro 550s you mentioned as being 150 are mostly found around 200, and more common at 180. So you may want to change that.


$153 dollars on Amazon homey.







Add to cart and check out the savings.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13498264*
> Just need a few corrections to make it more accurate:
> 
> *the MMX300 is a DT770 32ohm.
> 
> Quote of the slight differences sound wise between the different impedance models:
> 
> from http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more#post_6938759
> 
> *Also I'd put the Ultrasone PRO550's in the 'compromising gamer' section udner the $150 section, as the S-Logic works much better in the Pro(line) series than the HFI series.
> 
> * A great 'rock/metal' headphone for $300 is the Alessandro MS2 as well, which is of course liek the MS1, a Grado OEM.
> 
> * The Alienware Ozma 5 *is not* the same as the PRO550. The Alienware Ozma 5 is an OEM'ed HFI-580. The HFI series is noticeably different than the PRO series.
> 
> * Also maybe passive setups for speakers?


How could I forget the Alessandro MS2s Doh! Definitely will add that. Did I mention the MMX300s were anything but DT770s 32 ohm? I'll add the Pro 550s to the compromising gamer list. Are they 580s? Could have swore they were 550s. Cool though, I'll make sure to change that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13498278*
> $160
> 
> http://www.adorama.com/ULPRO550.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase
> 
> Was going as low as $150 on ebay.


$153 Amazon.


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## chinesekiwi

the HFI series is different from the PRO series. There's the HFI-580 and PRO550. Both are part of a different series of headphones from the same company.

HFI series = HFI-580, HFI-680, HFI-2200LE, HFI-780 (older versions being HFI-550, HFI-650, HFI-750)
Pro series = PRO550, PRO650, PRO750, PRO900

Don't get me started on how confusing German headphone model naming is!
(Hint: beyerdynamic are the worst for confusion!)


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## cgg123321

Good stuff, this will come in handy to show friends in the future


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cgg123321;13498734*
> Good stuff, this will come in handy to show friends in the future


However to simply look at a guide and say 'I'll buy that' is really :/ as all factors must be considered e.g. comfort, their current sound setup, how they intend to use it etc...

No point buying high-end headphones to be plugged into onboard for example.


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13498724*
> the HFI series is different from the PRO series. There's the HFI-580 and PRO550. Both are part of a different series of headphones from the same company.
> 
> HFI series = HFI-580, HFI-680, HFI-2200LE, HFI-780 (older versions being HFI-550, HFI-650, HFI-750)
> Pro series = PRO550, PRO650, PRO750, PRO900
> 
> Don't get me started on how confusing German headphone model naming is!
> (Hint: beyerdynamic are the worst for confusion!)


I hear many people are not a fan of most of the HFI series. Compared to the Pro series they're a bit of a let down.


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## chinesekiwi

Yeah, the PRO series overall is better sounding but some prefer the sound signature of say the HFI-780 for trance over the PRO series. the PRO series is of course generally more expensive. the S-Logic tech is also reported to be more effective in the PRO series as well.


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## cgg123321

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13498761*
> However to simply look at a guide and say 'I'll buy that' is really :/ as all factors must be considered e.g. comfort, their current sound setup, how they intend to use it etc...
> 
> No point buying high-end headphones to be plugged into onboard for example.


I was mainly referring to the sections explaining the situation concerning headsets and how turtle beach isn't the audiophile equipment. Obviously it won't be a "oh I must follow this list to see what I should buy" but a reference point to get started.

ie: the transition from multimedia PC speakers to bookshelf speakers/monitors.


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## Simca

Yeah, this thread was mostly meant for the following reasons:

1) To give people an idea of what they should be looking at given their circumstances and budget.

2) Get certain types of products OUT of their mind, just as headsets FTMP.

3) Allows you to see what's better and for how much more. Some people simply have no idea where they may be going whenever they get enough money saved up. The list is almost like a Skill Tree in a game. It'll help people learn what's above.

4) It's meant to spark interest in RESEARCH rather than just be an end-all, buy now guide. They should be looking at the recommendations, researching the product in more depth than this simple guide could provide (despite it taking me like 4 hours to complete).

When all is said and done, I believe someone that has COMPLETELY read this guide should be quite a bit more knowledgeable about audio equipment than they were before having read it.

Some may feel even more confused, but I hope that being confused gives them a hunger to learn more about audio.

Again, the biggest thing with me is trying to make it simple by listing the most recommended products, but also sparking the will to research these products and OTHER products so their needs will best be suited.


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## Spooony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown;13498298*
> You are posting that over and over about the Creative DTS-610 here and at the HardOCP forums. Why must you keep doing that?
> 
> Recommending something you like is cool, but why so much?


I didnt recommend anything. Asked the OP to have a look at it because theres not much of a other option to get it on your receiver full 5.1 via digital.If you manage to find one let me know


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## kpopsaranghae

Imo, the BX5a's should be up there for the $240 range. They have fantastic highs and punchy mids. Bass isn't that deep, but that's the same with all 2.0 monitors with this driver size. Comparable in many ways to an Audioengine A5 but for $60-80 less.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


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## RallyMaster

Excellent write-up, Simca. Quite an undertaking here!


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## Cacophony

Good, if Polk Audio wasn't in here this whole list would be invalid.


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kpopsaranghae;13501972*
> Imo, the BX5a's should be up there for the $240 range. They have fantastic highs and punchy mids. Bass isn't that deep, but that's the same with all 2.0 monitors with this driver size. Comparable in many ways to an Audioengine A5 but for $60-80 less.


I'll look into them. I have heard about them, but the buzz just honestly hasn't been there for those much. If those turn out to be a gem, they'll be sure to make the list.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cacophony;13502377*
> Good, if Polk Audio wasn't in here this whole list would be invalid.


lol.









Speaking of which, help me out with the following:
1) In what way can I make the titles and sections stand out.
2) In what way can I make the thread more appealing without splashing it full of colors and making some people annoyed by all different types of colors.
3) I need more passive speakers to recommend, but I'm all knowledge full of powered speakers. Toss me some great passive speakers for the price.
4) Recommend good and popular receivers for people wanting to go the receiver route.


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## TUDJ

Great work Simca!









I'll recommend the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 for the passive speakers section. They have been replaced by the 10.1 but can still be had new in some places for £99, they can be found used in good condition for anywhere between £50-75. When they retailed for £150 they were considered as one of the best speakers under £250, now that the value has dropped you can see why they are such great value.


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## 98uk

I have 9.1's and loooooooooove them!


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## systemlayers

Receiver wise I don't know what to recommend. In my lifetime I've had an old yamaha 5.1 that still works great (from 2000 or so) but only has like one component input. My Onkyo 606s HDMI and component board died within a short time of one another (well known problem) - got a replacement it's sitting around her but don't trust it. So i got a marantz nr1601 a couple months ago but i've had a few 'pops' at random intervals so i'm wondering if something is starting to go on that too now. Receivers seem to be built to just utter crap standards these days. Any time spent in AVSforums receivers section is just filled with horror stories from the bottom units to the top.

Also i'm looking at getting a usb dac for my HD555s love this list!


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## astrallite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Varjo;13493563*
> Obviously, for the higher end, the 650s are amazing. With an amp driving them they can literally do it all, one of the most amazing and versatile headphones I have ever listened to, they rival my ascend 340SEs for clarity and sound-stage.


I'd go as far as saying the 650s sound as good as the Ascend Sierras. But they are by far the least comfortable headphones I've ever worn. I almost never use them for this reason. I probably ought to sell them hmm...


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## PresNotSure

Why is this thread not sticky?


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## chalkbluffgrown

In all sincerity, I wish this were an "entry thread" for everybody that enters this forum and becomes a member. It would truly save a lot of the "recommend me a headset" or "which headphones for $xxx"?

Great job Simca, pat yourself on the back for the time and thoughts you put into this.


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## mbp

Can we please sticky? This is a good list. I smell an upgrade soon


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## TUDJ

I've added this thread to the Essential Reading for Audio Fans sticky.


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## Plex

Amazingly awesome thread. Thank you for taking the time to put it together, sir. ++rep


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## Denz

Great job, asked for a sticky. +REP


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## frizo

Wow, quite the impressive list you have going here. This should provide a great starting point for those looking into various audio components.

Great job!


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## RallyMaster

Simca, seeing your mention of the HD600 on the "Ultimate Gamer" headphones list really makes me want one. Must...not...purchase...more...headphones...

But then again, I've found myself listening to classical a LOT lately. Grr.


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## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster;13527165*
> Simca, seeing your mention of the HD600 on the "Ultimate Gamer" headphones list really makes me want one. Must...not...purchase...more...headphones...
> 
> But then again, I've found myself listening to classical a LOT lately. Grr.


IMO, the HD600s should be MORE for classical music and JAZZ in particular than gaming, but their sound stage is commendable. I would rate the HD600s sound stage as being wider than the DT880s.


----------



## RallyMaster

I think the dumb thing was that I was so close to buying the HD600 two years ago and I went for the HD595 instead. In hindsight, that was a very dumb decision because there was a difference of $50 (USD) between the two at time and I went for the HD595 instead...which I also no longer have and ended up selling for $100 (almost a $200 loss). Fail.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster;13527660*
> I think the dumb thing was that I was so close to buying the HD600 two years ago and I went for the HD595 instead. In hindsight, that was a very dumb decision because there was a difference of $50 (USD) between the two at time and I went for the HD595 instead...which I also no longer have and ended up selling for $100 (almost a $200 loss). Fail.


RallyMaster - Believe it or not, I'm now in the same boat as you were... I've sold my HD598s and will be looking for something else for right now. I feel that the middle entry level audiophile headphones are just not for me. Either I'll get something in the $300 range or something aroud $100, but nothing in the middle for me anymore.

In addition, I've sold my STX and went a head and purchased Xonar DS for $40 shipped. I've got my reasons as to why I decided to downsize. I didn't notice any substantial difference between the two audio cards though it seems the Wolfson encoder on the DS is pretty good actually.

I was bitten by an audiophile bug hence the increased excitement.









my


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox;13529259*
> RallyMaster - Believe it or not, I'm now in the same boat as you were... I've sold my HD598s and will be looking for something else for right now. I feel that the middle entry level audiophile headphones are just not for me. Either I'll get something in the $300 range or something aroud $100, but nothing in the middle for me anymore.
> 
> In addition, I've sold my STX and went a head and purchased Xonar DS for $40 shipped. I've got my reasons as to why I decided to downsize. I didn't notice any substantial difference between the two audio cards though it seems the Wolfson encoder on the DS is pretty good actually.
> 
> I was bitten by an audiophile bug hence the increased excitement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my


No rason to move to the STX if you don't have headphones that are being amplified by them or that can even make use of it's amplification.

You should have bought an external DAC perhaps if you wanted the largest jumpin quality. A good mid level(in your terms anyway) pair of headphones are the Grado SR225is. Very solid headphones.


----------



## Mr. Stroker

I think you need a portable headphone section. Such as ear buds and smaller phones.

I have a set of Koss Portapros. I bought them because they used to be highly rated and I wanted something to take with me. Well they have never left my pc lol. I do like them for music but they suck for gaming because you cant decipher what side noise is from.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr. Stroker;13530156*
> I think you need a portable headphone section. Such as ear buds and smaller phones.
> 
> I have a set of Koss Portapros. I bought them because they used to be highly rated and I wanted something to take with me. Well they have never left my pc lol. I do like them for music but they suck for gaming because you cant decipher what side noise is from.


I was super tired after typing for 4 hours. Perhaps you can tell by how I rushed the ending a bit, but now that I've had some time to cool down from writing that massive manifesto, I'll be sure to add an IEMs and earbuds section as well as an amplifier section. I just wish I had a 3rd post. Didn't realize how long all this was gonna be.


----------



## Mr. Stroker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;13530206*
> I was super tired after typing for 4 hours. Perhaps you can tell by how I rushed the ending a bit, but now that I've had some time to cool down from writing that massive manifesto, I'll be sure to add an IEMs and earbuds section as well as an amplifier section. I just wish I had a 3rd post. Didn't realize how long all this was gonna be.


Well its a great read and good work. I would ask a mod to see if they can add you 2 more post.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr. Stroker;13530313*
> Well its a great read and good work. I would ask a mod to see if they can add you 2 more post.


I'll ask, but I think they can only delete posts until I will have posted and that would require the consent of all posters before my 3rd post to agree.


----------



## intelfan

Nice write-up. Very informative


----------



## jam3s

sennheiser PC-350 ftw!


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;13530062*
> No rason to move to the STX if you don't have headphones that are being amplified by them or that can even make use of it's amplification.
> 
> You should have bought an external DAC perhaps if you wanted the largest jumpin quality. A good mid level(in your terms anyway) pair of headphones are the Grado SR225is. Very solid headphones.


Initially, I knew and understood the importance of high quality audio and had decided to get into it by purchasing TiHD. Subsequently, I had acquired my HD598s. Found out TiHD is mostly a gamers choice with X-Fi and purchased STX. Obviously, it was a huge leap forward for me from an overly muddy sounding onboard audio. Now that I have a more solid understanding of music fidelity, I can look forward of an external DAC and a good pair of cups.

Aren't Grado headphones mostly recommended for rock music lovers? SR222is are exempt from that?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;13527460*
> IMO, the HD600s should be MORE for classical music and JAZZ in particular than gaming, but their sound stage is commendable. I would rate the HD600s sound stage as being wider than the DT880s.


However soundstage width is not the only (and tbh not the most important) measure of gaming. I would say it's imaging and tbh, I feel that the DT880 images better than the HD600.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox;13531483*
> Found out TiHD is mostly a gamers choice with X-Fi and purchased STX.


What...both are *extremely* similar tbh.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13531510*
> What...both are *extremely* similar tbh.


Do note... That was my understanding and bases of the TiHD at the time of purchasing the STX.

Yeah, they are very similar, but there an actual difference between the two. I'm not going to lie, the vocals on STX seemed bit more forward. In addition, STX seemed bit on the warm side as though my HD 598s were almost on the dark side. That's the closest I can compare them.

EDIT: I presume the TiHD incorporates different opamps than found on the STX hence the difference?


----------



## soloz2

Not an exhaustive list, but certainly well thought out!

Added to the list of Recommended reading!


----------



## RagingCain

I am going to put my neck out here, but there are a pair of gaming headphones that have 2 independent drivers in each ear, and the ability to drive Bass with Vibration in the headset. They are very comfortable, durable, a Mic thats detachable, and a separate physical Volume Control, Mute, Mic Mute, and Equalizer built into the line.

The Roccat Kave 5.1 work better than my HD650s for gaming hands down any day of the week.

I have recently sold my X-Fi Champion Series card, so I am currently using them with my Supreme X-FI2 (Realtek) and it works pretty good. I am using my HD650s / Speakers coming out of my ASUS Thunderbolt, like it should be. So yes, *I am running an onboard Sound card and a dedicated Sound card at the same time, 24/7*. I often recommend this for gamers, as most onboard options like the Realtek HD, or the similar software upgraded Supreme X-Fi / X-Fi2 are easily good enough for gaming so you don't have to sacrifice for music/home theater when purchasing a dedicated sound card.

I also think that having a PCI category is a good choice too if you don't want to waste PCI-E slots if you don't have any. My HT Omega Claro Halo XT not only did great Home Theater, but when the impedence jumper was set to 300, it really drove my Senns to a whole new level.


----------



## Scrumptious

Superb guide...will answer many noobies questions. I recommend a sticky.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox;13531577*
> Do note... That was my understanding and bases of the TiHD at the time of purchasing the STX.
> 
> Yeah, they are very similar, but there an actual difference between the two. I'm not going to lie, the vocals on STX seemed bit more forward. In addition, STX seemed bit on the warm side as though my HD 598s were almost on the dark side. That's the closest I can compare them.
> 
> EDIT: I presume the TiHD incorporates different opamps than found on the STX hence the difference?


Nope, same DAC chip, same opamps.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13542162*
> Nope, same DAC chip, same opamps.


No. I'm fairly certain the STX uses the PCM1792 while the TiHD uses the PCM1794. The I/V opamps are the same (NJM2114D) but the buffer opamps are not the same. The STX uses the LM4562NA which is a dual opamp package while the Titanium HD uses two LME49710NAs.

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G


----------



## chinesekiwi

PCM1792A and PCM1794 are extremely similar DACs, if not, really the same.
NJM2114 = another name for the JRC2114D'as the STX uses. LME49710NA on the buffer opamp = LM4562 the STX uses.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13542789*
> PCM1792A and PCM1794 are extremely similar DACs, if not, really the same.
> NJM2114 = another name for the JRC2114D'as the STX uses. LME49710NA on the buffer opamp = LM4562 the STX uses.


Similar in specs, but not exactly the same. I know that both cards use the JRC2114/NJM2114D operational amplifiers for I/V. That was never in question. The fact remains that the LME49710NA is a single opamp package vs the LM4562NA which is a dual opamp package. Also, if the LME49710NA's dual opamp version, the LME49720NA, were actually the same as the LM4562NA, then there is no reason why people on Head-Fi have been replacing the 4562 with the 49720, is there?


----------



## systemlayers

BTW how about the FiiO e9 and e7:

[ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FFiiO-E9-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier%2Fdp%2FB00470Q76K]http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E9-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00470Q76K"]http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E9-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00470Q76K[/ame[/URL]]

After a fair bit of research i have decided on this combo for my DAC. Highly regarded in tests and in consumer ratings. Also quite popular.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/fiio-e7-usb-dac-amp.html
Great review/resource on the E7.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster;13542895*
> Similar in specs, but not exactly the same. I know that both cards use the JRC2114/NJM2114D operational amplifiers for I/V. That was never in question. The fact remains that the LME49710NA is a single opamp package vs the LM4562NA which is a dual opamp package. Also, if the LME49710NA's dual opamp version, the LME49720NA, were actually the same as the LM4562NA, then there is no reason why people on Head-Fi have been replacing the 4562 with the 49720, is there?


cuz it's new basically but when National states it's exactly the same.....
Also there is usually never (if ever? Forever ever?) a difference in function / sound between a single channel version of an opamp vs. it's dual channel version except for circuit compatibility


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi;13542998*
> cuz it's new basically but when National states it's exactly the same.....
> Also there is usually never (if ever? Forever ever?) a difference in function / sound between a single channel version of an opamp vs. it's dual channel version except for circuit compatibility


Actually, in laboratory settings while creating Butterworth filters, my best friend and I (both EEs) found that using a single dual opamp package to create said filter ends up having very strange performance issues. It was rectified when we tried a two single package opamps (also DIP8). There is interference between the two operational amplifiers in certain configurations/frequencies. Perhaps in this case, the channel crosstalk isn't very noticeable but I'm fairly certain it's there to an extent.


----------



## Simca

The following changes have been made:

Major sections are now highlighted in *Red* text for easier searching.

"Scenarios" and minor sections are now highlighted in *Dark Slate Gray* for easier searching.

Scenarios are now centered as well to make it easier for searching.

Added an "Information to state when making a new thread" section. - Good Heavens, we needed this so badly. I hope people notice it. I even put Information signs around it.


----------



## tianhui

Thank you so much for this Guide!
Helps out a lot with audio virgin like me.

Probably going to save up for a Xtreme Music/Gamer or Titanium + Swan 2.1

What about those Creative 2.1 on newegg- i suppose those are trash too?

Right now I'm running the cheapest logitech 10$ 2.0 speakers lolol- bass is non-existent.
That with Senn 201.

Also- Does the concept of bottle necking apply-
For example, you get a real nice 80 tier sound card but a Lower end 40$ tier headphone / speakers. Will the speakers/headphone bottleneck the true potential of the card?
And vice versa?


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tianhui;13569676*
> 
> Also- Does the concept of bottle necking apply-
> For example, you get a real nice 80 tier sound card but a Lower end 40$ tier headphone / speakers. Will the speakers/headphone bottleneck the true potential of the card?
> And vice versa?


Yup, the concept is similar. If you feed a 128kb/s mp3 file through onboard to $20,000 speakers you'll still get crap sound and vice versa. Although, once you have an acceptable soundcard/DAC you'll gain far more with a better headpone/speaker. I would compare that situation to a 2600k. Let's say you're building a $3k rig - sure you could save a bit by going 2500k and still get great performance but if you've already got the best elsewhere, you're going to want to get that extra 10% to make the most out of the rest of your system.


----------



## Simca

Added Koss KSC-75s to list of cheap headphones to buy.

Ear buds/IEMs & Amps section forth coming.


----------



## NomNomNom

Hey I've recently started wanting a better sound performance. I was hoping to spend about 150$ on headphones and a sound card. I will be using it for gaming as well as listening to music, possibly both at the same time. I would like them to be very comfortable. What would you recomend to me. I live in Canada btw.


----------



## Iceman23

Did you read the recommendations in the first post?


----------



## NomNomNom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman23;13634156*
> Did you read the recommendations in the first post?


was wondering if I should spend an equal amount on card and headphones 50 on card 100 on headphones. And what combination would work best....


----------



## Iceman23

That's probably a good ratio in budget. Personally I would grab the Asus Xonar DG for $50 and Audio Technica M50s for $100. What type of music do you listen to?


----------



## NomNomNom

basically a little of everything. I guess that pretty hard to cater to








EDIT: the m50's are 250$ on amazon


----------



## Iceman23

M50s probably would suit you well then. AD700s are great for gaming but IMO not for music, they simply lack too much bass.


----------



## Dwar3xwar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom;13634272*
> basically a little of everything. I guess that pretty hard to cater to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: the m50's are 250$ on amazon


Actually, they're $160 on amazon.


----------



## FearSC549

The M50's price fluctuates a lot, sometimes they're at $110, other times they're over $200.


----------



## NomNomNom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dwar3xwar;13637414*
> Actually, they're $160 on amazon.


amazon.ca?


----------



## Simca

Added a link to a HF guide for IEMs. Very briefly listed some IEMs that stood out to me. No purpose typing it all up when that thread does it better.


----------



## glycerin256

great guide. it answered alot of my questions. it left me with one though:

i see the HT omega and more specifically the striker recommended alot on some places, and it gets great reviews on newegg. the striker *looks* like a great buy for the price. why are people loving them on newegg and elsewhere, but are not recommended here. (honest question, not trying to troll. i need to be educated.)

i am a FPS gamer mostly, but listen to rock and metal and a little rap and alot of prodigy and crystal method, so i do like my bass. im looking for a new soundcard and headphone setup. i will need closed headphones for the environment im in. my compy also hooks up to my home theatre system though my onboard optical on the other side of the room, so i still need that functionality.

sub'd

thx man. again, great guide!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glycerin256;13783905*
> great guide. it answered alot of my questions. it left me with one though:
> 
> i see the HT omega and more specifically the striker recommended alot on some places, and it gets great reviews on newegg. the striker *looks* like a great buy for the price. why are people loving them on newegg and elsewhere, but are not recommended here. (honest question, not trying to troll. i need to be educated.)
> 
> i am a FPS gamer mostly, but listen to rock and metal and a little rap and alot of prodigy and crystal method, so i do like my bass. im looking for a new soundcard and headphone setup. i will need closed headphones for the environment im in. my compy also hooks up to my home theatre system though my onboard optical on the other side of the room, so i still need that functionality.
> 
> sub'd
> 
> thx man. again, great guide!


HT Omega cards are fine. They're mostly not as recommended here because people generally have less experience with them as opposed to Asus. Many people feel safer going with products that others know for sure are good as opposed to taking a risk or one for the team and trying out another product. That's mostly it. Nothing's wrong with HT Omega cards for the most part.


----------



## glycerin256

thx for the quick response. price range for the headphones and card is around 200 total.

would there be a problem with grabbing a striker 7.1 card for FPS gaming? would it allow me to push 5.1 to my HT system? (right now the onboard sound is PCM over optical to the receiver then upscaled or whatever by the receiver to all stereo. ya, it sucks.)

or could i keep the onboard sound for the optical and run an Asus DX or similar for headphones? (sorry, i can't buy another Creative card)

Samson SR850 or Audio Technica A700 for headphones depending on how much i want/can to spend. maybe ill get and mod some JVC RX700s if i spend too much on the card.


----------



## iamwardicus

I also vote for a sticky - there is a lot of good information in this thread


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tUDJ;13511293*
> I've added this thread to the Essential Reading for Audio Fans sticky.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus;13899901*
> I also vote for a sticky - there is a lot of good information in this thread


It was added to the sticky thread 4 weeks ago, please stop requesting it


----------



## myrandomspaces

+1

I had the HARX700 in mind before reading this, and now Im going to get them for sure

thanks yo


----------



## iamwardicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tUDJ;13903565*
> It was added to the sticky thread 4 weeks ago, please stop requesting it


My bad tUDJ:guiltysmi - I was thinking of sticky to the main forum, not the Essential Reading post you can kick me for not paying attention


----------



## lotdash0t

really great guide. thanks +1


----------



## iDaryl

can any1 help me choose a good 5.1 speaker system under 70RMS watts and a very good sound card that can accommodate both 5.1s and headphones?im planning to buy a good headphone too









i've read about asus xonar essence stx + the h6 expansion, anything else besides that combo?


----------



## Uncle Dolans

I have onboard sound, and 5.1 X-540 speakers. I honestly think they are really nice, however i can't begin to imagine what i am missing out on..


----------



## waldoh74

I used the X-540 speakers from 2008 until about a month ago when I upgraded to a 3.1 receiver setup + my A900s /w STX. I had them paired up with Soundblaster X-FI Titanium and honestly, for a set of $75 speakers and an $80 card, they hit HARD and sounded awesome. Was a great budget setup.


----------



## Scottery

Nice guide!


----------



## ~sizzzle~

Nice guide Simca +

Maybe someone posted this already, if not.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Simca*

$60 Price Range:
The Superlux 668B is a solid competitor and I've heard that it can go for cheaper, but for the life of me I cannot find it shipped for less than 60 dollars in the United States. If someone can find me a link to it cheaper, I will quickly change the price range of these headphones, but til then these are 60 dollar headphones to me. They're great headphones all around and are highly recommended. Check out Head-fi reviews for more information.


Here is a link for those 668B's for $39.99 from GreenFly. I haven't ordered from them but a few people over at Head-Fi claimed they are a legit online wing of a b&m Seattle area music store.

http://www.greenflymusicsupply.com/s...nes-p4076.html

You can get free shipping if you spend $49.00 so not a bad deal if they happen to have something else you need anyway.


----------



## Simca

I think he wanted its own personal sticky







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tUDJ;13903565*
> It was added to the sticky thread 4 weeks ago, please stop requesting it


-HTC Incredible, CyanogenMod 7.0.3, Tapatalk Pro.


----------



## nykeiscool

Great read man.
Question though personally as far as cosmetically i love the A-50's Would you really recommend one of the 700's For gaming over the A-50's ? I plan to use them for a little bit of everything TBH. Asides From Gaming (FPS/MMO) i listen to a mix of everything... but right now what im bumping a lot is J-PoP / House


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nykeiscool;14109253*
> Great read man.
> Question though personally as far as cosmetically i love the A-50's Would you really recommend one of the 700's For gaming over the A-50's ? I plan to use them for a little bit of everything TBH. Asides From Gaming (FPS/MMO) i listen to a mix of everything... but right now what im bumping a lot is J-PoP / House


If by A-50s you mean Audio Technica M50s, then they're completely different headphones. One is meant for bassy music the other for gaming, classical, vocals. You have to decide what is more important to you. I wouldn't recommend the M50s for gaming if that's what you had it in mind for. I would recommend either saving a bit more and buying some Ultrasone Pro 550s or even stepping down a bit and getting some Samson SR850s or something. The 2 are so polar and you seem to want to be in the middle. You can't be in the middle with those two headphones.


----------



## nykeiscool

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Simca*


If by A-50s you mean Audio Technica M50s, then they're completely different headphones. One is meant for bassy music the other for gaming, classical, vocals. You have to decide what is more important to you. I wouldn't recommend the M50s for gaming if that's what you had it in mind for. I would recommend either saving a bit more and buying some Ultrasone Pro 550s or even stepping down a bit and getting some Samson SR850s or something. The 2 are so polar and you seem to want to be in the middle. You can't be in the middle with those two headphones.


Hmm.. thanks for the recommendation.. Sucks can't have the best of both worlds on the m-50's but I completely comprehend what you're saying... Maybe i'll get two pairs of cans.. one strictly for gaming.. (JVX) and than buy those M-50's ... Would these play nice with like my iPhone ( i intend to use them on the go) Because i'm not a music enthusiast but my stock iPhone ear buds have seen the end of there days they are super washed out now.


----------



## PhRe4k

I have my eyes on a pair of Grado SR225i's, but I'm not sure if my STX will be a good source for them. Anybody have experience with this combo?


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*


I have my eyes on a pair of Grado SR225i's, but I'm not sure if my STX will be a good source for them. Anybody have experience with this combo?


They should make a good combination. Grado's don't benefit too much from amping and will respond more to a good source (such as the STX).


----------



## leighteam

I was looking at the M50s on Amazon (they are $150??). I hope this isn't asking for too much, as I need my headphones to be multi-functional. I like metal, rock, alternative, dubstep, and gaming. I really like how the M50s look compared to the AD700s, so the AD700s are out of the question. The A700s on the other hand, are way more appealing to me than the AD700s, so A700s are also a possibility.

So do the M50s or A700s meet my needs?

-price range ~$150


----------



## Steel_Rain

+rep

Has anyone tried using an amp with the Beyerdynamic DT770's or would it not even be beneficial to use one if using the Creative Titanium HD sound card?


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Steel_Rain*


+rep

Has anyone tried using an amp with the Beyerdynamic DT770's or would it not even be beneficial to use one if using the Creative Titanium HD sound card?


It depends which version of the DT770, there are 32 Ohm, 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm variants, in basic terms the higher the Ohm rating then the more likelihood there is that the headphones will benefit from being amped. The 600 Ohm version _will_ need a good amp to be driven efficiently.


----------



## Steel_Rain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tUDJ*


It depends which version of the DT770, there are 32 Ohm, 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm variants, in basic terms the higher the Ohm rating then the more likelihood there is that the headphones will benefit from being amped. The 600 Ohm version _will_ need a good amp to be driven efficiently.


Right on then, I was thinking of getting the 80 Ohm one and I just wasn't sure if I would need one to help them reach their full potential.


----------



## Setre

N/M

I bought the Asus Essence STX.


----------



## Simca

Adjusted first posts prices and removed Auzentech products from the recommended list. There's simply no reason to consider them anymore when the Titanium HD is now 130 or less.


----------



## Steel_Rain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Steel_Rain*


Right on then, I was thinking of getting the 80 Ohm one and I just wasn't sure if I would need one to help them reach their full potential.


almost answered my own question here with the quote below \\/ \\/ \\/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Simca*


Beyerdynamic DT770s 80 ohm version... these require amplification.


Which amp would you recommend I use with these? /\\ /\\ /\\

I was looking at Amazon and it paired them with a FiiO E5 Headphone Amplifier. Would this little amp be enough or would the headphones still be under powered? If it makes any difference, I will be plugging these headphones into a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD sound card.

Quick question, are the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro/Championship Series sound cards any good?


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Steel_Rain*


almost answered my own question here with the quote below \\/ \\/ \\/

Which amp would you recommend I use with these? /\\ /\\ /\\

I was looking at Amazon and it paired them with a FiiO E5 Headphone Amplifier. Would this little amp be enough or would the headphones still be under powered? If it makes any difference, I will be plugging these headphones into a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD sound card.

Quick question, are the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro/Championship Series sound cards any good?


if you're looking to upgrade your sound card anyway, the Xonar ST/X cards have a built in headphone amp capable of powering those cans. Dayton also makes a sweet little amp for a hundred bucks that comes highly recommended.


----------



## ijapxjapi

Hey guys, I need some advice/guidance on amps.

After much research, I decided on X-Fi Titanium HD because I game the majority of the time. (Not competitively mind you.) I barely, if ever, listen to music and the majority of video watching is anime. So this card seems like a pretty good fit.

I decided to pair it up with a DT990/600. My decision was for the "fun" aspect and immersion. I do occasionally enjoy FPS sessions, BC2 mostly, but nothing competitive that warrants a AD700 or K701.

I'm plenty aware that I won't be able to drive the cans without an amp. I currently am leaning towards a Fiio E9 as I've read nothing but great things about. However, I'm confused about connections.

I may have been mislead but I read somewhere that CMSS 3D is lost when connecting to an external amp unless done through optical out. The E9, from what I've seen, does not have any optical in. If I've been mislead about the connections then there should be no problem connecting stereo RCA on the X-Fi to 3.5mm line in the E9 while maintaining CMSS 3D?

If I do indeed lose CMSS 3D, can I get a recommendation on an amp that can drive these cans? My budget is roughly $200 and I'd prefer something small as I don't have much desktop space.

Thanks!


----------



## Doomtomb

Good list. I think the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 deserves a spot on your list.


----------



## Steel_Rain

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shredicus*


if you're looking to upgrade your sound card anyway, the Xonar ST/X cards have a built in headphone amp capable of powering those cans. Dayton also makes a sweet little amp for a hundred bucks that comes highly recommended.


Nope, I don't even have a sound card yet


----------



## Simca

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Steel_Rain*


I was looking at Amazon and it paired them with a FiiO E5 Headphone Amplifier. Would this little amp be enough or would the headphones still be under powered? If it makes any difference, I will be plugging these headphones into a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD sound card.

Quick question, are the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro/Championship Series sound cards any good?


Those sound cards aren't worth their price. The Fatal1ty offers you useless x-ram you don't need. The Champion series offers you a "cool" ...thing...with knobs. Useless.

Try the Fiio E9 if you're going to amp your DT770s.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ijapxjapi*


Hey guys, I need some advice/guidance on amps.

After much research, I decided on X-Fi Titanium HD because I game the majority of the time. (Not competitively mind you.) I barely, if ever, listen to music and the majority of video watching is anime. So this card seems like a pretty good fit.

I decided to pair it up with a DT990/600. My decision was for the "fun" aspect and immersion. I do occasionally enjoy FPS sessions, BC2 mostly, but nothing competitive that warrants a AD700 or K701.

I'm plenty aware that I won't be able to drive the cans without an amp. I currently am leaning towards a Fiio E9 as I've read nothing but great things about. However, I'm confused about connections.

I may have been mislead but I read somewhere that CMSS 3D is lost when connecting to an external amp unless done through optical out. The E9, from what I've seen, does not have any optical in. If I've been mislead about the connections then there should be no problem connecting stereo RCA on the X-Fi to 3.5mm line in the E9 while maintaining CMSS 3D?

If I do indeed lose CMSS 3D, can I get a recommendation on an amp that can drive these cans? My budget is roughly $200 and I'd prefer something small as I don't have much desktop space.

Thanks!


Don't worry. You'll likely never use CMSS 3D. You figure you would since it'd be good for gaming to something, but people that buy sound cards for gaming almost never turn these features on. It distorts sound and often times in ways that aren't that useful. Grab an E9, it's good enough to power DT990s.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Doomtomb*


Good list. I think the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 deserves a spot on your list.


It is on the list. It's under *Bassier Headphones - Dubstep/Electronica/Bass-Heads* in the $106 dollar range. I wouldn't pay anymore than that for them.


----------



## ijapxjapi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;14165914*
> Don't worry. You'll likely never use CMSS 3D. You figure you would since it'd be good for gaming to something, but people that buy sound cards for gaming almost never turn these features on. It distorts sound and often times in ways that aren't that useful. Grab an E9, it's good enough to power DT990s.


Oh?? I am under the impression that the X-Fi HD is the better gaming card because CMSS 3D provides better positional/directional cues than Dolby.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Hello,

I'm looking to upgrade my sound system in my PC and I'm looking to purchase a new sound card and headphones to be used for gaming / movies / music.

I currently have something reserved which are the Alessandro MS1i and the Titanium HD (Budget is within the two items combined). Would the headphones actually be able to use the op amps in the HD? Would they be decent at Crysis 1/2, Dragon Age 1/2, Mass Effect 1/2 and Call of Duty series?

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated! If I'm lacking any other details, please do ask for more info from me! Sorry, but I'm just a noob when it comes to sound systems and the like!

EDIT: I also have an Asus Sonar DX2 that I can reserve, is this something that would be better than the Titanium HD?


----------



## chinesekiwi

the Titanium HD would be better what's your music taste? total budget (I can;t be bother looking it up)?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*


the Titanium HD would be better what's your music taste? total budget (I can;t be bother looking it up)?


Musical tastes differ from alternative music to rock to classic rock to r&b. The budget I have in mind is about $250 more or less!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*


Hello,

I'm looking to upgrade my sound system in my PC and I'm looking to purchase a new sound card and headphones to be used for gaming / movies / music.

I currently have something reserved which are the Alessandro MS1i and the Titanium HD (Budget is within the two items combined). Would the headphones actually be able to use the op amps in the HD? Would they be decent at Crysis 1/2, Dragon Age 1/2, Mass Effect 1/2 and Call of Duty series?

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated! If I'm lacking any other details, please do ask for more info from me! Sorry, but I'm just a noob when it comes to sound systems and the like!

EDIT: I also have an Asus Sonar DX2 that I can reserve, is this something that would be better than the Titanium HD?


Any suggestions or comments on whether The Alessandro MS1i would be good with the titanium HD for gaming, movies and music? Gaming would be 40%, movies and music both 30% usage.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Ok, let me rephrase the question then... I did try and look for AD700 and A700 (ultimate gamer that wants a little base and listens to some music and watches videos as well).

Where I'm from (Philippines) and they are currently not available or very hard to find are are priced twice what their actual price is.

I will buy a Titanium HD and was wondering if the Alessandro MS1i would be decent alternatives for gaming / movies / music in a 40-30-30 split.


----------



## RallyMaster

Alessandros and their more brash Grado brethren typically aren't the best headphones for gaming use because of their utter lack of sound stage. The Alessandro/Grado sound is also really suited to pretty much one genre: rock. Beyond that, it's a love/hate relationship.


----------



## Narzon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*


I will buy a Titanium HD and was wondering if the Alessandro MS1i would be decent alternatives for gaming / movies / music in a 40-30-30 split.


I wouldn't get anywhere near those for gaming, personally. I'm not sure what headphones are available in your location, but Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics would be great. A little lower, the JVC RX700 and RX900 are also very nice alternative for their price.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Ok thanks for the help there, I'll definitely stay away from the MS1's then. Now here's my problem when it comes to Sennheisers, we only have these models available, HD 485, 515, 518, 558 and the 598 available. Which one should I be looking at? I know people mentioned the 555 but I can't find any where I come from?

EDIT: I checked out the Sennheiser site and compared the 555 and 558, they are technically the same in terms of specs. Should I go for these since I can't find the 555?


----------



## ~sizzzle~

558 are the updated, newer model 555.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Ok cool thanks! Wow just found out the cost for the 558 where I come from! At the current exchange rate it's at US$194. Would it be worth paying almost $200 dollars for these? Would stepping down to a HD515 (only costs $82 brand new around here) be advisable and do they sound worlds apart? I also found the HD485 @ $113, do they sound better than the HD515?

Apologies if I'm asking too many quesitons, but just want to make sure I make the best choice before I spend my hard earned moolah!

EDIT: Err...can you modify these cans as well?


----------



## Narzon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*


Ok cool thanks! Wow just found out the cost for the 558 where I come from! At the current exchange rate it's at US$194. Would it be worth paying almost $200 dollars for these? Would stepping down to a HD515 (only costs $82 brand new around here) be advisable and do they sound worlds apart? I also found the HD485 @ $113, do they sound better than the HD515?

Apologies if I'm asking too many quesitons, but just want to make sure I make the best choice before I spend my hard earned moolah!

EDIT: Err...can you modify these cans as well?


That makes things difficult. The 555s are great cans, but I don't know if they're worth $200. From what I've gathered, the 485s are better than the 515s, but that's just based on hearsay.

Have you looked up Beyerdynamic DT770s where you live? Honestly, I think the best option might still be the HD555s.

EDIT: There's a simple modification on the 555s that involves removing a piece of foam (no soldering or anything like that), that _apparently_ makes it absolutely identical to the 595 in terms of sound.


----------



## dev1ance

HD558 can also be modded to ~HD598 territory. There does seem to be quite a few changes from HD555->HD558 as Senn has fixed some criticism of the former.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/538329/sennhieser-hd-558-review


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Thanks for the input everyone! I'll end up buying the 555 since it just got a big price drop because the 558 just came out here!

I do have another question though, if I just stick to my audigy sound card and buy a fiio e7 or e11 (portable amp) and plug my sound card there and my speakers or headphones would I get good sound as well with the HD555/558? I was thinking since I do want an amp that I could also lug along for my ipod maybe I can set it up this way instead of buying a Titanium HD and just a headset... at least I cover my music needs when travelling daily and also be able to use them for my PC when I'm at home gaming...

Thoughts?


----------



## RCXDerp

I need suggestions on what do to do, I want a 2.1 setup for my PC. I have around $500 to spend on the setup, I have a sound card already that I don't think is too terrible... I listen to Dubstep/Rock/Rap mostly. I'm looking for good sounding music, games probably will sound fine as I listen to more music then I do play games... and I live in Wisconsin. In a thread I made earlier because I didn't see this people told me some passive book shelf speakers, an amp, and a powered sub seemed smart for my budget.


----------



## PotatoBeans

Hey all, I need a little help picking a good sound card.
I've already planned on ordering a Sennheiser PC 360 for it's good combination of a "mic" and headphones, I know there's better choices for sound quality and mic but I'm used to having a headset, and so I heard they're really comfortable so why not.

Currently I'm using the Asus P6Z68's stock Realtek HD and it truly annoys me compared to the other Creative stock I had on my old MSI board. The problems were really impossible. It ranged from having background noises, my friend has been constantly telling me "You sound like you're stuck in a bubble." and from time to time the recording just becomes so loud that I have to breath in it.
So I decided to upgrade the sound.

I'm not REALLY into music, around 10% of the time on my computer you'll see me playing songs but that's it. I want to communicate with my headset with no background noise with a good trustworthy company.

To make it more simple, I prefer communication (recording), and then gaming sound, and then music playing.
Thanks.


----------



## RCXDerp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PotatoBeans*


Hey all, I need a little help picking a good sound card.
I've already planned on ordering a Sennheiser PC 360 for it's good combination of a "mic" and headphones, I know there's better choices for sound quality and mic but I'm used to having a headset, and so I heard they're really comfortable so why not.

Currently I'm using the Asus P6Z68's stock Realtek HD and it truly annoys me compared to the other Creative stock I had on my old MSI board. The problems were really impossible. It ranged from having background noises, my friend has been constantly telling me "You sound like you're stuck in a bubble." and from time to time the recording just becomes so loud that I have to breath in it.
So I decided to upgrade the sound.

I'm not REALLY into music, around 10% of the time on my computer you'll see me playing songs but that's it. I want to communicate with my headset with no background noise with a good trustworthy company.

To make it more simple, I prefer communication (recording), and then gaming sound, and then music playing.
Thanks.










Uhm, do you have a budget?


----------



## PotatoBeans

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RCXDerp*


Uhm, do you have a budget?


I guess $150-$200, I don't really want the best of the best, something average and well known and decent recording would do.


----------



## Woned

Excellent post, although looking at your headphones recommandations, i'm a bit bummed : The AT M50s were right in my price range, but you dont seem to recommend them too highly - with no other good alternative in sight.

What are some good headphones for bassy music (non-bassy music also!) around the 100$ price tag?


----------



## Narzon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woned;14297297*
> Excellent post, although looking at your headphones recommandations, i'm a bit bummed : The AT M50s were right in my price range, but you dont seem to recommend them too highly - with no other good alternative in sight.
> 
> What are some good headphones for bassy music (non-bassy music also!) around the 100$ price tag?


M50s are incredibly fun headphones, probably the best headphones for any sort of bass-heavy music anywhere near their price. They're particularly loved over at Head-Fi. That said, soundstage isn't its strength. It's only not recommended for gaming.


----------



## frizo

I love my M50s and there are many other satisfied owners out there.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Woned;14297297*
> Excellent post, although looking at your headphones recommandations, i'm a bit bummed : The AT M50s were right in my price range, but you dont seem to recommend them too highly - with no other good alternative in sight.
> 
> What are some good headphones for bassy music (non-bassy music also!) around the 100$ price tag?


Just go for the M50s. You'll love them. Simca's list is not the end all be all, and is based 1 part on her own opinion and one part on general consensus. Just because she does not regard the M50s highly does not mean they arent an astonishing pair of cans for $100


----------



## Narzon

Agreed, everything comes down to preference. Simca mentions that in her opinion the Sennheiser HD555s are "boring" and neutral. Myself and others happen to like that.


----------



## Woned

Ok thanks guys, I'm gonna jump on them today!!


----------



## Shredicus

Anyone know if this mic will work plugged into a sound card/pc?

  Amazon.com: Olympus ME-52W Noise Canceling Microphone: Electronics
If so, it's like $5 more for a mic way better then that poo zalman everyone buys


----------



## FearSC549

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shredicus*


Anyone know if this mic will work plugged into a sound card/pc?

Amazon.com: Olympus ME-52W Noise Canceling Microphone: Electronics

If so, it's like $5 more for a mic way better then that poo zalman everyone buys


From what others say, those need power. Most likely it will work, but you need to switch on Mic Boost.

Also, the HD 555 isn't really neutral.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FearSC549*


From what others say, those need power. Most likely it will work, but you need to switch on Mic Boost.

Also, the HD 555 isn't really neutral.


Alrighty. Also, my Xonar ST has a 1/4" jack for headphone. Any advantage to having that?


----------



## voxox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FearSC549*


Also, the HD 555 isn't really neutral.


Gotta agree with this individual.

In fact, monitor purpose headphones are close to being neutral, but they're extremely boring headphones. I've auditioned ATH M40fs headphones and couldn't stand the sound they produce. Very distant and what I would call "boring" On the other hand, HD555s are really fun, dynamic, engaging and "in your face" (forward vocals) type of headphones. Not neutral, but I love that. I've owned/auditioned quite few headphones, but always keep coming back to sennheiser's sound signature.

My


----------



## Narzon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *voxox*


Gotta agree with this individual.

In fact, monitor purpose headphones are close to being neutral, but they're extremely boring headphones. I've auditioned ATH M40fs headphones and couldn't stand the sound they produce. Very distant and what I would call "boring" On the other hand, HD555s are really fun, dynamic, engaging and "in your face" (forward vocals) type of headphones. Not neutral, but I love that. I've owned/auditioned quite few headphones, but always keep coming back to sennheiser's sound signature.

My










I didn't mean to say they're distant or not engaging, simply that their sound signature isn't really colored compared to other phones recommended in their range. I personally can't say they're dark or bright. Again, I loved the sound on my 595s, wouldn't trade it for anything lower than a 600.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Narzon;14306015*
> I didn't mean to say they're distant or not engaging, simply that their sound signature isn't really colored compared to other phones recommended in their range. I personally can't say they're dark or bright. Again, I loved the sound on my 595s, wouldn't trade it for anything lower than a 600.


Narzon - I think you understood me wrong. I love my HD595s and HD555s, but I simply don't like monitor headphones for music listening/gaming.


----------



## Narzon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox;14307892*
> Narzon - I think you understood me wrong. I love my HD595s and HD555s, but I simply don't like monitor headphones for music listening/gaming.


I never meant to compare them to monitor phones. Perhaps neutral isn't the best way to phrase it. They are certainly quite engaging when they need to be.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Im trying to decide between the
[ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FAudio-Technica-ATH-A700-Audio-Technica-Headphones%2Fdp%2FB000E9VKUQ%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fs%3Delectronics%26ie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1313954078%26sr%3D1-1]http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A700-Audio-Technica-Headphones/dp/B000E9VKUQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313954078&sr=1-1"]A700[/ame[/URL]]

[ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FShure-SRH840-Professional-Monitoring-Earphones%2Fdp%2FB002DP8IEK%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fs%3Delectronics%26ie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1313954227%26sr%3D1-1]http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH840-Professional-Monitoring-Earphones/dp/B002DP8IEK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313954227&sr=1-1"]SRH840[/ame[/URL]]
and
[ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSennheiser-HD555-Professional-Headphones-Channeling%2Fdp%2FB0001FTVDQ%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fs%3Delectronics%26ie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1313955027%26sr%3D1-1]http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD555-Professional-Headphones-Channeling/dp/B0001FTVDQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313955027&sr=1-1"]HD555[/ame[/URL]]

I believe I fall into the compromising gamer. I like music to be an option (or movies if you must), but Im mostly likely using them for gaming. So bass being present is nice.
Another problem being is that Im using them for a dorm. So sound leakage is what Im trying against, hence why the AD700 isn't being considered as Im told they're loud. Im also told the HD555s are as well, but I figured I get some input about that too.


----------



## BlahBlahBlah

HD555 are open so if you don't want sound leakage you can rule those out.

If you want a compromise you can also throw Ultrasone line with S-Logic into the mix as they are closed back (low sound leakage), they have bass from being closed and bass oriented, and the S-Logic technology enhances the soundstage to make them gaming viable.


----------



## decimator

I have the Samson RH600's and I can definitely vouch for them. Great monitor headphones with a wide soundstage -- great for first-person shooters. Definitely one of the best gaming headphones for under $50. Glad it was mentioned in the OP.


----------



## rysiu342

I read that Asus Xonar DX has problem with bfbc2, will it have problem also with battlefield 3?


----------



## waldoh74

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rysiu342;14685908*
> I read that Asus Xonar DX has problem with bfbc2, will it have problem also with battlefield 3?


I think that it is a little premature to say yes or no to that boss.


----------



## rysiu342

ok thanks walodh74 for answer, can you also explain me , because i don't understand this problem with asus xonar dx with bfbc2:
Quote:


> BEWARE: Do not expect exceptional BC2 sound from the Xonar DX. If you at all play BC2 on a regular basis, you should avoid this card as it won't give you the positional cues you're looking for. If you're playing virtually ANY OTHER GAME besides BC2 you'll love this card. It's excellent for Call of Duty. It's excellent for RPGs and Racers. In fact, it'll do RPGs and racers better than the Creative cards. Music DOES sound better on the DX than pretty much every creative card on the market.


----------



## NorCa

mmm.. actually not bad Simca, entered the thread ready to cry to be honest. Good Job!


----------



## csm725

Hmm... best all-around for $50? Some gaming, should just be average for music.
DG or DS?


----------



## wompwomp

yeah boi!


----------



## intelfan

How do this list compare with this one?

http://audioproheadphones.blogspot.com/p/recommended-headphones.html


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rysiu342;14687159*
> ok thanks walodh74 for answer, can you also explain me , because i don't understand this problem with asus xonar dx with bfbc2:


Positioning is wrong and the sounds are all blended together without a sense of distance or direction. Very often, you'll also not be able to hear gunshots (when you're being fired at), enemy voices or things exploding. To me, that's a deal breaker especially when coming from a sound card that actually does it right (X-Fi Titanium HD).


----------



## Xombie

I like your thread, up until the recommended speakers section.

First, I'd stray away from the Swan and Audioengine recommendations.

Swan is only sold (to the best of my knowledge) through ONE North American reseller. His shipping rates are outrageous, and his return policy is almost nonexistent--I waited over two months for a refund of my D1080s. Yes, the M10s are fantastic, but they're hard to come by, and for that reason alone I wouldn't recommend them specifically at the lowest price point.

For $120 you are better off with the MAudio AV40s, which can be picked up at any GuitarCenter/BestBuy in the US, and likely sound (almost) as good.

Please see my speaker compilation here.

Leave the Klipsh, they are a great pair and can be found at quite the discount. They've also been discontinued--so their place in this thread is kind of outdated. Similar to the Klipsh, I would include a recommendation for Harman/Kardon Soundsticks in a similar price range. They sound about on par with the Klipsh, and offer aesthetics as well.

I would also NOT recommend the Audioengine A2s. Audioengine products are ridiculously overpriced for what you get. The A2s are remarkably tiny--and that's about the best thing about them. Only if you want something stylish and very small should you consider them. The A5s are a lot nicer (for starters, they can actually produce sound considering they are significantly bigger) but they still don't outperform a ~$200 counterpart: M-Audio's BX5a. These are consistently the most recommended set of 2.0s on this forum and elsewhere--they are also the best-selling studio monitors in the US, at least according to M-Audio who released a yet-to-be-reviewed successor, the BX5 D2 earlier this week, set at the $300 price range.

You can leave the higher priced Swans in there, or recommend some of the more expensive speakers in my thread--but realize that what Swan produces aren't necessarily "studio monitors" and perhaps a line should be drawn.

Otherwise, good job.








Quote:


> $120 Price Range:
> Swan M10s are the most recommended speakers at this price point. They sound really great for the money, but keep in mind they're still very much entry level. The Subwoofer many complain is just not powerful and for many they opt to save up and move to a better set.
> 
> $150 Price Range:
> The Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 is a solid pair of computer speakers with a very powerful subwoofer. Many people buy these and in fact, if you look on craigslist, you'll often find them for sale for SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. Just make sure they work.
> 
> If you live in the UK, you might be able to find a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's for under 150 used. Sadly, if you live in America these speakers are significantly more expensive.
> 
> $180 Price Range:
> You're looking at the Swan D1080MkII08 at this price. While they lack a subwoofer, for speakers alone, these are a SOLID pair of speakers, especially if just used as computer speakers to fill a small room.
> 
> $200 Price Range:
> At 200 dollars you should start looking at the Audioengine A2s. These are very capable speakers and are highly recommended on OCN if you have the money. They don't come with a subwoofer, but it has a built in subwoofer that's pretty good. Still, if you like bass you're gonna' want a separate woofer.
> 
> $280 Price Range:
> You're gonna go for either the Swan M50W or the Swan M200MKII. The M200MKII will sound better, but won't have a subwoofer. The M50W will have a subwoofer and of course you see the trade off. Up to your preference which you will choose. You can always add a subwoofer later with the M200MKIIs.
> 
> $325 Price Range:
> You're going to want the Audioengine A5s. These are one of the most highly recommended speakers at this price. They're great speakers and like the A2s can handle the lows well enough for you to hold out on a subwoofer for a while.
> 
> If you're planning on spending anymore than the A5s you should do personal research on speakers, have a receiver/DAC and create a separate thread to be catered to personally.
> 
> Here's another thread on speakers to look at by soloz2.


----------



## Xombie

For the Audiophile or a gamer with a complicated setup, I would also include a recommendation for the ~$200 DAC by Maverick Audio.


----------



## Simca

*Added the Fostex T50RPs to the list.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Simca, care to put the Dayton audio setups in your thread?


----------



## Simca

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*


Simca, care to put the Dayton audio setups in your thread?


Any particular setup you care to share? Lots of DIY Dayton stuff, but not sure if you mean that or already made products.


----------



## Jeffro422

Thanks for all your hard work compiling everything. Great source of information for someone who just broken their gaming headset and is looking to get some real headphones(like me)

I think this article gives me further proof to buy the RX700s, thanks!


----------



## sosna

Thanks Simca for the really detailed write up.

I had a Razer Barracuda for 3 years now,but the left side speaker started dying.I had not paid so much attention buying them.I purchased them cause of the 5.1 feature (at the time,i wasnt aware if it was real or not) and the mic beeing attached to them.

So when looking for new ones yesterday -before reading your guide- i noticed the Razer Carcharias and the Sennheiser HEADSET PC-330.My choices where those a)causde of the price b)the attached mic.

After reading here though i pulled the trigger for the Superlux HD-668 Bs,together with this mic.Ill try to mod the mid in order to be attached to the left side speaker.

I chose them cause of the low price,only 29 euros and the great reviews i saw everywhere.I also considered the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 but it was out of my price range for the moment.

I think that the Superlux HD-668 Bs together with my Asus Xonar D1 will be better than the Razer ones i had.

Thanks again for the guide! -repped-

ps:forgot to mention that they will be used for gaming-music mostly and movies/racing(F1 etc.)


----------



## lb_felipe

I visited the Audioengine USA's site and I noticed that now there's an accessory for A5. It's DS2. There was already a DS1 for the A2.

I think this is good news for those who want to use A5 as desktop speakers.


----------



## FearSC549

lol simca


----------



## Simca

Updated a few things and modified a few recommendations as well as completely removed the RX900s from the gamer recommendation. They're just not gaming headphones.

Changed a few perceptions of headphones and added the Pro 550s to the ultimate gamer list. They're worth adding and the price range they're in was left out so they're a perfect match.


----------



## AndrewM56

I have a NFB-12 on order already and was thinking of getting some cans to go with em (upgrading from HD558s), you say you need a good amp to power the DT990s, does the nfb 12 qualify as "good"?

Also what do you think of HD650s? I am kind of between the DT990s and HD650s.

Being used for dubstep / gaming / movies


----------



## Simca

I think that the DT990s and the HD650s are 2 completely different types of headphones.

I think you may want the DT990s over the HD650s for the following reasons:

For Dubstep the hands down winner is the DT990s. They have excess bass in my opinion, but I've never seen that as a problem with dubstep. The bassier the better. Gaming wise the DT990s have a larger sound stage. Movies, also the DT990s simply because of the fun factor and immersion.

Now you may be thinking, well why would anyone ever get the HD650s over the DT990s.

It's actually because for music in almost any other genre besides dubstep the HD650s are going to be much more enjoyable. The clarity is going to be higher for the HD650s, the headphones are more balanced than the DT990s. The DT990s actually have a lot of problems from a headphone perspective. They're not really audiophile grade. They're very "fun" headphones as opposed to serious listeners.

Yes, the NFB-12 should amp the DT990s just fine.

Another thing to consider is if you recable the HD558's that does a LOT to improve it. You may even want to keep the 558s after you recable them.
___________________________________________________________________________________

I changed the audiophile 70 dollar card to the HT Omega Striker. It was originally the Xonar DX, but from a music/movies perspective, I do think the HT Omega Striker is the card to take. That takes into account that 90% of its use will be for music/movies. DTS encoding helps a lot for movies, which the DX lacks, but just make sure you actually have a need/use for DTS encoding, cuz just having it and not using it is a waste. I also added a section adding why HT Omega cards are not recommended over other solutions. This came about as a result of a PM asking why HT Omega cards were not recommended.


----------



## AndrewM56

Hmmm thanks for the input that gives me a lot more to think about. Where would I look into getting a new cable for the 558s? Or are you talking about a custom one or something? Got any good links to look into?


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I'm really thinking about the Ultrasone PRO 550. Sounds like that might be the way to go for me. I want a headphone with a larger sound stage but without the compromise in bass.


----------



## KCOTT

wow, what a great thread

this clears up some questions for sure


----------



## edo101

Can someone recommend me a solid 2.1 system and a 5.1 system that I can run with a PC and consoles?

my price range is 400 USD max for 5.1 and 300 USD for 2.1


----------



## Bobotheklown

Great list Simca!!

A quick question if you will, would I notice a big difference in the Ultrasone 550's over the Samson SR850's?

The only thing so far holding me back from the SR850's is that they're supposedly very uncomfortable.

I game a lot and listen to dubstep, rock, and trance.
Bass is very important to me.

What do you think? Shell out the extra hundred for the 550's? Or grab the 850's?

fyi: I'll be using an x-fi titanium HD without an amp.

Thank you


----------



## stren

Anyone know of a similar list but for sound cards/usb dacs with linux support? I'm assuming 99% of the usb dac's won't, and some of the pci-e cards won't. I wanted to get the titanium HD in the recent bestbuy clearout until I saw that linux support wasn't there.


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren;15369494*
> Anyone know of a similar list but for sound cards/usb dacs with linux support? I'm assuming 99% of the usb dac's won't


What about this?
Its pricey though.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown;15369379*
> Great list Simca!!
> 
> A quick question if you will, would I notice a big difference in the Ultrasone 550's over the Samson SR850's?
> 
> The only thing so far holding me back from the SR850's is that they're supposedly very uncomfortable.
> 
> I game a lot and listen to dubstep, rock, and trance.
> Bass is very important to me.
> 
> What do you think? Shell out the extra hundred for the 550's? Or grab the 850's?
> 
> fyi: I'll be using an x-fi titanium HD without an amp.
> 
> Thank you


The 2 are in completely different leagues really. The 100 dollar price difference means a lot in audio. Still, yes there's a big enough difference to go for the Pro 550, but you ARE paying 100 dollars more. 3x the price. No there's not 3x the difference, but that's across the board as you go with audio. You'll have to pay more for smaller increments of benefit. Still, the benefit between the 2 is large enough to warrant stepping up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren;15369494*
> Anyone know of a similar list but for sound cards/usb dacs with linux support? I'm assuming 99% of the usb dac's won't, and some of the pci-e cards won't. I wanted to get the titanium HD in the recent bestbuy clearout until I saw that linux support wasn't there.


From what I understand Linux should support USB Class 1 and the newer distros should even support class 2 USB so theoretically almost all USB DACs should work with Linux.

That said, check out this thread, might be able to help you further.


----------



## Bobotheklown

Quote:


> The 2 are in completely different leagues really. The 100 dollar price difference means a lot in audio. Still, yes there's a big enough difference to go for the Pro 550, but you ARE paying 100 dollars more. 3x the price. No there's not 3x the difference, but that's across the board as you go with audio. You'll have to pay more for smaller increments of benefit. Still, the benefit between the 2 is large enough to warrant stepping up.


I'll save up for the 550's.

Thank you much!
+rep


----------



## crizthakidd

im looking to spend 40 bucks on my first headphones ever im looking to get good gaming ones, something that i will hear CLEAR sounds, battlefield 3 had some oft he most amazing sound effects and i want crips not just loud boom boom. i also listen to techno and dubstep tho so maybe something that can handle a bass i saw a lot of good headsets but confused as to which one. all the ones with a mic are also super expensive but naything that has a mic to voice cha would be a super plus. also whats the concensus on this

http://item.ebay.com/260872210235/?ableplanetdeal


----------



## Simca

Did you at all read this thread?

Re read it if you did.

Read it if you didn't.


----------



## crizthakidd

yea i went back and re read, its just there wasnt a choice for headphones with a mic for 40 bucks. do you recommend just buying a separate mic and a quality headphone i think the m50's where the price range recommandation. also i posted a link to ask what do you think of those able planet ones -__-

these are usually 120 but there is an offer for 60 bucks off do you think its worth it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16826106250


----------



## Simca

...okay well, the reason why there are no recommendations for headsets with mics attached at 40 dollars is because they all suck.

All of them suck. It's just the way it is. Avoid all USB headsets as these are the lowest quality headsets you can find. Also, just because the headset isn't USB doesn't make it any less sucky. Typically the headphones are super jacked up in price just to include a mic because they know gamers will buy it for the convenience or cool factor. The quality will be significantly under what you can afford for the same price if you were to have just gone with headphones+ separate mic.

The M50s are 106-160 dollars. They're horrible for gaming. They're for bassy music and not at all worth 160 dollars.

For 40 dollars you want to buy the Samson RH600s/Samson SR850s/JVC Rx700s/Superflux 668B, something along those lines.

Then add a clip on mic. 10 bucks. Zalman.


----------



## jacobthellamer

Might pay to include some DIY examples as it is increadable value for money if you can solder.

Pure DAC:
http://beezar.com/catalog/product_in...roducts_id=130

Dac with headphone amp:
http://beezar.com/catalog/product_in...roducts_id=138


----------



## Destroysall

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*


Great list Simca!!

A quick question if you will, would I notice a big difference in the Ultrasone 550's over the Samson SR850's?

The only thing so far holding me back from the SR850's is that they're supposedly very uncomfortable.

I game a lot and listen to dubstep, rock, and trance.
Bass is very important to me.

What do you think? Shell out the extra hundred for the 550's? Or grab the 850's?

fyi: I'll be using an x-fi titanium HD without an amp.

Thank you


Why don't you get the Superlux HD668B? Believe it or not, the HD668B are the SR850. They have the same exact drivers. You can look for some AKG Velour Pads for added comfort, "burn-in" the headphones for about 30 hours, stretch them out if need be, and you might just have a very good pair of cans. The Superlux's are noted entirely for how amazing they sound when compared to higher end models. They are also pretty darn cheap.

However, since you are a basshead, the Ultrasone HFI-580 might just be for you.


----------



## chinesekiwi

the SR850 is slightly different from the HD668B in the SR850 has more bass.


----------



## Destroysall

^True, but it is another alternative. The Ultrasone HFI-580 has really good bass though. Another one with a lot of bass is the Fischer Audio FA-011.


----------



## lb_felipe

Which is better for FPS gaming (e. g. Battle Field 3), ATH-AD900 or HFI-780?

Bass are welcome but the priority is that it be excellent for FPS. Is there any other recommendation (price doesn't matter and Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD is intended)?

Did I write this with no grammatical errors?


----------



## ZAKOH

I am really surprised by Sennheiser HD201s, in a bad way. Given their price, you'd expect that these headphones are easy to drive, right? Wrong. They have lower sensitivity than my Sennheiser HD555s. Moreover, when I listen music using HD201 from my laptop with built-in realtek, I have to crank the volume level to 100%, and I still want more. I have an external USB DAC, and with that DAC, I can tone down the volume level to 60-70%. Whatever it is, it is still higher than what HD555s need. Then of course is the issue of sound quality. The sound quality does improve considerably with a good sound card or DAC, another indication that HD201 are hard to drive. With better sound card, their dynamics are better, the highs sound better, etc. Bass remains anemic for a closed back headphone, and somewhat weaker than HD555s. With good sound card, the sound quality is good for the price. However, comfort is bad, and makes these worth at most $20. If Sennheiser made the foam pads thick enough to make my ears not touch the driver's plastic cover, it would have been better. My ears feel like on fire after a lengthy listening session.


----------



## ZAKOH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


Which is better for FPS gaming (e. g. Battle Field 3), ATH-AD900 or HFI-780?

Bass are welcome but the priority is that it be excellent for FPS. Is there any other recommendation (price doesnâ€™t matter and Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD is intended)?

Did I write this with no grammatical errors?


I would prefer the headphones with open back simply because my ears will feel warmer after a lengthy gaming session if the headphones were closed back. I would you closed back headphones only if I had to conceal the sound from others.


----------



## d3310n

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Simca*


Updated a few things and modified a few recommendations as well as completely removed the RX900s from the gamer recommendation. They're just not gaming headphones.


can you explain why? i am about to buy some rx900s and a dg with the intention of gaming. i want some bass, so the ad700s kind of sound disapointing.

how is the soundstage on the 900s?


----------



## Simca

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3310n*


can you explain why? i am about to buy some rx900s and a dg with the intention of gaming. i want some bass, so the ad700s kind of sound disapointing.

how is the soundstage on the 900s?


Disappointing compared to the cheaper and by all means superior alternative the SR850s.


----------



## d3310n

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Simca*


Disappointing compared to the cheaper and by all means superior alternative the SR850s.


thanks, i think ill be going sr850 and dg!


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZAKOH;15413595*
> I would prefer the headphones with open back simply because my ears will feel warmer after a lengthy gaming session if the headphones were closed back. I would you closed back headphones only if I had to conceal the sound from others.


Thank you.

I am now thinking that warming is something to think about it. But regardless of it, what is the best pair of headphones for FPS games?


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe;15435070*
> Thank you.
> 
> I am now thinking that warming is something to think about it. But regardless of it, what is the best pair of headphones for FPS games?


Audiotechnica ATH-AD range.

Does anyone know where the Recon 3D range will fit in ? Is it a Replacement for the Sound Blaster Gamer range ?

So the Titanium series is still more high end ?


----------



## jeffries7

Great read









I'm in the market for some cans but only ever had headsets before. I'm interested in the AD700s but i'm not liking the lack of sound proofing...also getting a zalman mic in the UK is difficult.

Are the AD700s really the best gaming headphones? I've read many good reviews of the Cooler Master Storm Sirus.


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffries7;15450293*
> Great read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the market for some cans but only ever had headsets before. I'm interested in the AD700s but i'm not liking the lack of sound proofing...*also getting a zalman mic in the UK is difficult.*
> 
> Are the AD700s really the best gaming headphones? I've read many good reviews of the Cooler Master Storm Sirus.


I have a zalman mic I don't use, PM me to discuss







.


----------



## malikq86

great thread/guide!

What you guys think of Corsair SP2500 vs. Klipsch ProMedia 2.1..price difference isn't that much anymore...maybe $60..anyways, which you think is better overall for gaming?

Edit: Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 is $150 from http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers..no tax...so difference is like $80.


----------



## necroraven

One of the best Computer Audio Post...


----------



## Bobotheklown

Just got my Titanium hd and Ultrasone pro 550's hooked up and holy crap!

Quite possibly the best upgrade my computer's received


----------



## Inverse

Hmm, despite how popular it is and how often I see it mentioned in other threads, how does the Sennheiser HD595 NOT make the list?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Inverse;15532958*
> Hmm, despite how popular it is and how often I see it mentioned in other threads, how does the Sennheiser HD595 NOT make the list?


Honestly not worth it. Modify HD555's and you pretty much have 595s. They use the same driver.


----------



## trumpet-205

Upgraded from Realtek ALC892 to ASUS Xonar D1 and I'm really amazed. While I use budget speaker (Logitech S220 2.1) with it, I can still notice major difference between them. I can now notice a lot of musical details that wasn't there previously.

Going to save up and buy a nice headphone.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Inverse;15532958*
> Hmm, despite how popular it is and how often I see it mentioned in other threads, how does the Sennheiser HD595 NOT make the list?


The HD558 and 598 are also said to have a wider soundstage.


----------



## lb_felipe

Which of these is the best for FPS, ATH-AD700, ATH-AD900, HD 558 or HD 598?


----------



## FearSC549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca;15533018*
> Honestly not worth it. Modify HD555's and you pretty much have 595s. They use the same driver.


Nope, different enclosure construction and headband clamping force results in different sound despite having the same driver.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FearSC549;15552067*
> Nope, *different enclosure construction* and headband clamping force results in different sound despite having the same driver.


Mainly that and damping.


----------



## csm725

What do y'all think of Beyer DT770 Pro 80's for $170 new?


----------



## lb_felipe

Which is better, Audio-Technica ATR4600 or Zalman ZM-MIC1?

ATR4600
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/6e14eae20e85450e/index.html

ZM-MIC1
http://www.zalman.com/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=210


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> What do y'all think of Beyer DT770 Pro 80's for $170 new?


To me thats a very good deal on them,I havent used those headphones my self but I talked to a couple that have, and they love their bass in games. I got my DT880 250ohm pro for 185 B stock on ebay.


----------



## csm725

I ended up getting HD 558 for $110.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Which is better, Audio-Technica ATR4600 or Zalman ZM-MIC1?
> 
> ATR4600
> http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/6e14eae20e85450e/index.html
> 
> ZM-MIC1
> http://www.zalman.com/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=210


I couldn't tell you from experience, but I don't think you could go wrong with either.

Lots of people have experience with the Zalman though. It's a proven and tested item.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> What do y'all think of Beyer DT770 Pro 80's for $170 new?
> 
> 
> 
> To me thats a very good deal on them,I havent used those headphones my self but I talked to a couple that have, and they love their bass in games. I got my DT880 250ohm pro for 185 B stock on ebay.
Click to expand...

170 is typical for a DT770 imo. That's what they usually go for. I can find a 100 dollar DT770 on Craigslist right now. Try CL if you're into buying from there. Lots of 80 ohms on there. The 250 ohm is sadly one of my least favorite DT versions. Makes you yearn for more, while also requiring some amplification.


----------



## 98uk

Awww... no love for the CA DacMagic. I love mine, looks great next to the 640A V2 as well. Shame CA have a really high £RRP. I managed to keep an eye over Richer Sounds shops for a few months and catch ex-demo units on sale stupidly cheap! Got my Azur 640A V2 for just over £100 which is a bargain.


----------



## Simca

Added the Panasonic HTF600 to the bassy headphones section at a startling 30 dollar price range. These are some really decent cans, especially for the staggering price.

I removed the Rx900s. I can't justify spending almost 60 dollars for these headphones. They're just not that good SQ wise.

I've also added the XB500 and XB700 to the list.


----------



## Wishmaker

As long as we have such a variety, have you heard of the Thunderpants?







It is a custom made pair of Fostex with good sound, apparently. It is in the 400 dollar range.

Why not make a list with portable amps too?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> As long as we have such a variety, have you heard of the Thunderpants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a custom made pair of Fostex with good sound, apparently. It is in the 400 dollar range.
> 
> Why not make a list with portable amps too?


Absolutely heard of the Thunderpants. I considered getting a custom engraved wooden version, but thought about it and just couldn't justify the price at the time. They are very nice though and when I get a pump in money flow I may consider them again.


----------



## csm725

I have a NuForce sitting in my drawer. Can't be bothered to uninstall and reinstall stuff.


----------



## intelfan

I hope it's not too off topic. I saw some guy wearing Studio Beats listening to a CD player. Lol.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> I hope it's not too off topic. I saw some guy hearing Studio Beats listening to a CD player. Lol.


Did you punch him?


----------



## intelfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Did you punch him?


It was a big black guy (no offense). I would get jumped.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Did you punch him?
> 
> 
> 
> It was a big black guy (no offense). I would get jumped.
Click to expand...

Smart man.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> It was a big black guy (no offense). I would get jumped.
> 
> 
> 
> Smart man.
Click to expand...

Just tell him you know kung fu.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> It was a big black guy (no offense). I would get jumped.
> 
> 
> 
> Smart man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just tell him you know kung fu.
Click to expand...

Street Brawling wins out over kung-fu in the real world.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Panasonic HTF600 to the bassy headphones section at a startling 30 dollar price range. These are some really decent cans, especially for the staggering price.
> I removed the Rx900s. I can't justify spending almost 60 dollars for these headphones. They're just not that good SQ wise.
> I've also added the XB500 and XB700 to the list.


The soundstage is tiny, I wouldn't recommend them for gaming. I think that you put them into the right section though, they deserve a mention for a good cheap headphone for bass heads.


----------



## chinesekiwi

To Sticky or not to sticky..that is the question...
If sticky, must include the 'one headphone does not fit all requirements the best' disclaimer of sorts.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> To Sticky or not to sticky..that is the question...
> If sticky, must include the 'one headphone does not fit all requirements the best' disclaimer of sorts.


Its pretty well maintained and does offer a lot of good advice.


----------



## RallyMaster

I think it is reasonable to make this a sticky. There's a lot of knowledge in this thread that would have otherwise been gained from lurking Head-Fi for several months.


----------



## Crag

if Simca could approve that he can maintain the thread and keep it up to date, so people dont get misled by old dated infos , why not?
if yes , i vote for *Sticky*


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Panasonic HTF600 to the bassy headphones section at a startling 30 dollar price range. These are some really decent cans, especially for the staggering price.
> I removed the Rx900s. I can't justify spending almost 60 dollars for these headphones. They're just not that good SQ wise.
> I've also added the XB500 and XB700 to the list.
> 
> 
> 
> The soundstage is tiny, I wouldn't recommend them for gaming. I think that you put them into the right section though, they deserve a mention for a good cheap headphone for bass heads.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's why they're in the dubstep/bass headphones section rather than gaming.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> To Sticky or not to sticky..that is the question...
> If sticky, must include the 'one headphone does not fit all requirements the best' disclaimer of sorts.


I'll leave that up to you Mr. Audio Editor.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crag*
> 
> if Simca could approve that he can maintain the thread and keep it up to date, so people dont get misled by old dated infos , why not?
> if yes , i vote for *Sticky*


Well, I've kept it pretty up to date so far including adding a few headphones as I see fit and removing some. Not like audio changes a lot anyway!


----------



## lb_felipe

Just for my own curiosity, do a beyerdynamic T 1 (Tesla) with its "own" amplifier designed for itself, the beyerdynamic A1 (110 V), and a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD work as well as a beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms) with a suitable amp and the same sound card, FOR GAMING?


----------



## glycerin256

Hey guys I have a very specific question so I posted up my own thread. (after searching) Take a look: Need a PCI soundcard that will output any computer audio to 5.1 over toslink to a receiver

Thx


----------



## admflameberg

If it for games usage then a Xonar DG, It has Dolby Digital Live encoder support which is used to Encode 5.1 analog signal to Digital for outputing stuff that isnt encoded already in 5.1 digital Like games.


----------



## glycerin256

ok sweet, thx for the suggestion, i didn't know if that was an option.

Any other opinions out there?


----------



## Tokkan

Well I think this thread is sticky worthy...
It gave me lots of info on sound cards and headphones.
Thanks to the OP I bought the ATH AD700 with the Zalman clip on mic and the X-Fi Titanium HD.
Will cost me arround 250 pounds at amazon uk.
Thanks Simca.


----------



## Wishmaker

Whilst I do not agree with some of the recommendations, in the sense that *if they are headfi or OCN favourite nothing else exists and everyone needs to get those and mod them*, I subscribe to sticky this, as some of the information is quite useful.

If people were more open to strengths and weaknesses associated with a variety of headphones, the audiophile community would be more educated. When I make this statement, I am trying to underline posts like the following :

1. The M50 Trash anything that is out there.
2. The AD700 are Godlike and have no rival.
3. Grado SR80 rules them all.

I concur that the above cans are good but when someone uses this type of argument to prove a point, they are not doing themselves any favours. It shows how little they know when it comes to audio. Also, just because 10 guys recommend a product, it does not mean, by default, the 11th guy needs to own it. Furthermore, if the 11th guy bought something else, no need to look down on him. What if he preferred the sound signature to what was recommended? Do not drool at graphs all day as they are not a good way to make a purchase.


----------



## Tokkan

You should read this as a recommendation, you can acept the recommendation or you can not acept them.
If you acept them it doesnt make it the better choice for you, just a recommendation and the person that does that recommendation cannot be blamed if you get unsatisfied.
I read through the OP and decided to give a try at ether the Titanium HD or the Essence STX, the creative is cheaper and for what it seems it does the jog right. Headphones... choosen the AD700 cause of all the positive critics, Im a sheep when it comes to sound related products, I cannot look at their stats and say this is better, this is worst. I openly took recommendations and I know that if I do not like what I get it is not OP fault but my fault for not being more experienced with the audio department before buying.


----------



## FearSC549

All audio equipments are subjective.

Some like neutral headphones, others prefer fun ones. Some likes a warm, tube-like sound, others favor solid-state amps. You cannot say "M50 is best headphone ever.", or "AD700 has the best soundstage." Statistics can be proven by scientific measurement, however preference depends on what you like, what you want to hear.

Another issue that annoys me is, people (blindly) recommend headphones that they've never heard before. I mean, even if you've read one of the most descriptive review about a headphone, you cannot make final judgement whether it's good or not; whether you can recommend it or not. IIRC, Simca only own one pair of headphones(AD700) with one sound card(some Creative/ASUS card), and she creates one of the most visited threads in the Sound section. I'm not trying to discredit her(despite my previous rant), but she gives a _general_ guideline and recommendation about headphones(and most of her headphone description are accurate). Like I said before, even if a headphone is highly recommended, it doesn't mean you will like it.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FearSC549*
> 
> All audio equipments are subjective.
> 
> Some like neutral headphones, others prefer fun ones. Some likes a warm, tube-like sound, others favor solid-state amps. You cannot say "M50 is best headphone ever.", or "AD700 has the best soundstage." Statistics can be proven by scientific measurement, however preference depends on what you like, what you want to hear.
> 
> Another issue that annoys me is, people (blindly) recommend headphones that they've never heard before. I mean, even if you've read one of the most descriptive review about a headphone, you cannot make final judgement whether it's good or not; whether you can recommend it or not. IIRC, Simca only own one pair of headphones(AD700) with one sound card(some Creative/ASUS card), and she creates one of the most visited threads in the Sound section. I'm not trying to discredit her(despite my previous rant), but she gives a _general_ guideline and recommendation about headphones(and most of her headphone description are accurate). Like I said before, even if a headphone is highly recommended, it doesn't mean you will like it.


Yep, this is all mostly true, except I own a few more headphones than that.

And I've tried infinitely more headphones than that.

And yes again, this is indeed a _general_ guideline and recommendation thread. There was a reason I precisely called it the "Most Commonly _Recommended_ Audio Products" thread rather than, "The Best Audio Products Thread."

Audio is super subjective. A lot of people don't like Grados. It's a taste for certain people. I love the 225i's, but could care less about the 325is even though the 325i is higher in the Grado list than the 225i.

This thread is meant to be a guide to help those that know very little to nothing about audio. It'll direct you and inform you on, imo, basic audio knowledge/information. It'll feed your hunger to learn more about audio and go out there and purchase headphones and try them for yourself. Or it will get you running over to head-fi and looking up reviews.

Many people will notice that throughout most of my thread, these audio products give similar advice to what Head-fi'ers would give you, but it does break off in certain sections.

The problem with head-fi though is that for every headphone and audio product there's a different person out there with something different to say about it. For every bad review, there's a good review.

Because Audio is subjective.


----------



## Wishmaker

I completely understand that not many people can distinguish between good audio and bad audio. What I don't understand is how these same people give advice because they read it someplace. Furthermore, as it has been pointed out above, many do not even own the headphones they judge yet they become an expert?

I will give you an example of what a community preferred product is. *The HD 650*, one of the best cans for its sound signature is praised everywhere on OCN and headfi. Now a few days ago, a person bought a pair of HD650s because of the amazing results, reviews, and 'advice' off headfi. They did not even bother to test them. As someone said here, they accepted the recommendation. What happened? The person was shocked at the sound quality and thought he had fake ones. Everywhere he read, he saw that the HD650 are the best and this and that. He did not like the cans at all. He said they lack bass and are not to his liking. *Then the backlash from the headfi community in the sense that 'this is how real music sounds like, what the HD650 have is a true bass not the trash you are used too. The HD650 are giving you the original sound, etc'.* A minority, amongst them myself, explained that he does not have fake ones and this is how the HD650 sound. They do not have sub-bass and have a mid-bass. He should not have bought them as it is obvious he prefers cans with a punchy low range (D2000, Ultrasone, etc). So amongst 50 posts which do nothing than spread trash, you have a few correct ones.

Now I ask you, how can these people who say these things call themselves audio experts? How can they totally ignore the way the HD650s are tuned and totally diss the person who bought them because they prefer a totally different sound signature? You have an example of a recommendation which backfired. This shows that people who give advice are not always in the know.

Now, if Audio is subjective, why do we have to force people buy certain things because they are the community favourite? In every audio thread that is opened we have the same candidates : M50, AD700, Beyerdynamic DT770, HD595, etc. There is nothing else recommended and as soon as you point out that you have other alternatives, the angry mob jumps at you with the 'yeah but these you can mod'.


----------



## Tokkan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> I completely understand that not many people can distinguish between good audio and bad audio. What I don't understand is how these same people give advice because they read it someplace. Furthermore, as it has been pointed out above, many do not even own the headphones they judge yet they become an expert?
> I will give you an example of what a community preferred product is. *The HD 650*, one of the best cans for its sound signature is praised everywhere on OCN and headfi. Now a few days ago, a person bought a pair of HD650s because of the amazing results, reviews, and 'advice' off headfi. They did not even bother to test them. As someone said here, they accepted the recommendation. What happened? The person was shocked at the sound quality and thought he had fake ones. Everywhere he read, he saw that the HD650 are the best and this and that. He did not like the cans at all. He said they lack bass and are not to his liking. *Then the backlash from the headfi community in the sense that 'this is how real music sounds like, what the HD650 have is a true bass not the trash you are used too. The HD650 are giving you the original sound, etc'.* A minority, amongst them myself, explained that he does not have fake ones and this is how the HD650 sound. They do not have sub-bass and have a mid-bass. He should not have bought them as it is obvious he prefers cans with a punchy low range (D2000, Ultrasone, etc). So amongst 50 posts which do nothing than spread trash, you have a few correct ones.
> Now I ask you, how can these people who say these things call themselves audio experts? How can they totally ignore the way the HD650s are tuned and totally diss the person who bought them because they prefer a totally different sound signature? You have an example of a recommendation which backfired. This shows that people who give advice are not always in the know.
> Now, if Audio is subjective, why do we have to force people buy certain things because they are the community favourite? In every audio thread that is opened we have the same candidates : M50, AD700, Beyerdynamic DT770, HD595, etc. There is nothing else recommended and as soon as you point out that you have other alternatives, the angry mob jumps at you with the 'yeah but these you can mod'.


1st you talk about good and bad sound.. and then you talk about audio being subjective.
There is no good or bad sound, theres only what you hear and what you like to hear.

Also idk about ya yanks but here In my country if I dont like something I can always return it...
Prolly just me right?


----------



## Simca

I think you're a bit misled Wishmaster. I don't at all think those are the most recommended items on OCN.

The HD650s don't have tons of bass and the person that purchased them should have known that.

The Ultrasone imo, have too much fabricated bass. It's actually abnormal, despite it being enjoyable.

So in the sense that the HD650s give a better representation to audio's bass than Ultrasones, I'm inclined to agree. Whether it's enjoyable or not to you with that amount is another question.


----------



## RaphTheTurtle

Hi!

Could I get a quick sanity check...

Based on this thread I am planning to pick up a Creative Titanium X-FI and the Klipsch Promedia 2.1. Will this be decent?

My primary usage is for gaming, with music as a secondary priority. I listen to all types of music (from hip-hop to classical). For headphones, I have a pair of Ultimate Ears Triple-FI 10s which I love (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/ue/ue-earphones/devices/8657) and a seinheiser HD280.

I was thinking of spending a bit more, but I'd like to get this setup today if I can.  I live in Atlanta, so normal chain stores, microcenter, and frys are options for me.

My max budget for sound card and speakers is $300.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tokkan*
> 
> 1st you talk about good and bad sound.. and then you talk about audio being subjective.
> There is no good or bad sound, theres only what you hear and what you like to hear.
> Also idk about ya yanks but here In my country if I dont like something I can always return it...
> Prolly just me right?


I still stand by my idea that audio is subjective and that you also have good and bad sound. My good and bad sound refers to a minimum level of quality associated with the speakers / cans you are using. For example, the external speaker on my phone has very bad sound. No matter how you twist it, it sucks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I think you're a bit misled Wishmaster. I don't at all think those are the most recommended items on OCN.
> The HD650s don't have tons of bass and the person that purchased them should have known that.
> The Ultrasone imo, have too much fabricated bass. It's actually abnormal, despite it being enjoyable.
> So in the sense that the HD650s give a better representation to audio's bass than Ultrasones, I'm inclined to agree. Whether it's enjoyable or not to you with that amount is another question.


You could learn a few things from MalVeauX. His posts are not in absolute, they iterate pros/cons, and do not shove down your throat the community favourite.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> You could learn a few things from MalVeauX. His posts are not in absolute, they iterate pros/cons, and do not shove down your throat the community favourite.


I'm sorry you feel that way. If all you've come out with from this thread is that stuff is being shoved down your throat then I failed to get my point across.

I'm not the government. I don't tell you what you must buy. I merely give you a whole list of audio products to consider. You then, are supposed to take these products and further research them for the pros and cons.

I simply don't have the space to list all the pros and cons of 100 audio products. My job was to inform of you what's out there, your job is to research those options and see if it's right for you.

If you don't do your job, I see how it can seem like I'm tossing it down your throat (actually, I can't see that, but I'm being nice).


----------



## Tokkan

Okay Wishmaker, lets see whatcha got.
I used to hear music from my phone with some crappy 3$ earphones, I changed to Sennheiser MX360 and I had a completely new universe inside the songs I used to listen, I can honestly say I fell in love with those phones so much that I owned 4 of them till now.
They are not the best arround, with this taken Im still using onboard sound on my computer and a 20$ headset from ozone.
The sound aint terrible but thats because I have no idea of what "good" sound is, after coming to this thread I decided to try the AD700 since after searching a while every1 advised me to get away from headsets and to buy a quality headphones.
I chosen the AD700 because it seemed for me that these were balanced for my intents, I also chose the Titanium HD because I wanted to get quality sound, and not to think that my brand new headphones sucked just because I didnt spend cash on a proper soundcard.
The max I can spend is 260£ and Ill be ordering through amazon.co.uk.

Taking in consideration im a complete newb when it comes to sound and most certainly the AD700's plus the Titanium HD will blow my mind out of water, am I doing a bad purchase? TBH I dont even know what kind of sound im into...
I understand what you say, you wish some1 with more experience and that could do recommendations custom tailored to each person would do a thread like this instead of Simca. Well probably they could do it better but you know what? They didnt. Simca atleast spent the time to create this thread, while you in all your experience did not.

If you wish that Simca thread to be more of your liking make suggestions and do not bash the person who created it, Im sure Simca will gladly acept suggestions to improve this thread.

I understand your point but I also recognise Simca effort.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Sweet list. Price points don't go high enough though IMO.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Sweet list. Price points don't go high enough though IMO.


Well, if you're spending more than 300 dollars on headphones, I would hope you did more research than going through my thread.









Still, hmm..I may consider adding 300+ headphones..just never had many people with that budget ask me for advice.


----------



## TUDJ

*I'd like to ask that the 'back and forth' about the worth of this thread stops here, if you have any suggestions to help improve the thread then please PM Simca, if you have any other concerns about the thread then please PM me. It's all very well debating about the subjective nature of audio but it doesn't belong in this thread.*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Well, if you're spending more than 300 dollars on headphones, I would hope you did more research than going through my thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, hmm..I may consider adding 300+ headphones..just never had many people with that budget ask me for advice.


It might be something that deserves a whole new thread of it's own. There is more involved in creating a solid high(er) end setup. As you also correctly point out, folk should be basing purchases in that price range more on their own experience than on the advice of others. I think it's quite rare that someone wants to jump right in at the deep end anyway, it's usually a slow progression upgrading from the most basic headset right through to getting a DAC/Headphone amp and a great pair of headphones, from when I first started paying attention to my computers audio it took me about 3-4 years to upgrade to where I am now. During that time most people will learn their own preferences when it comes to sound and be able to narrow down their choices.


----------



## csm725

I have a NuForce uDAC HP 2 and Senn HD 558's - they are great. Paid $110 for the 558's.


----------



## lb_felipe

Which of the three versions of beyerdynamic DT 990 is the best to be driven by an Asus Essence STX?

This sound card can drive headphones up to 600 ohms but I read it does not do it very well.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Which of the three versions of beyerdynamic DT 990 is the best to be driven by an Asus Essence STX?
> 
> This sound card can drive headphones up to 600 ohms but I read it does not do it very well.


The STX supports 600, so theoretically you should go all the way up to 600. The problem isn't so much that the amp isn't actually strong enough to power 600 ohm headphones, it's the fact that the amplifier on the STX isn't special. The parts used are actually cheap and compared to a stand a lone amplifier, simply inferior in many ways. The STX is not worth it's normal price tag. I would strongly suggest buying a sound card and going with a different headphone amp such as a Fiio e9 for starters.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The STX supports 600, so theoretically you should go all the way up to 600. The problem isn't so much that the amp isn't actually strong enough to power 600 ohm headphones, it's the fact that the amplifier on the STX isn't special. The parts used are actually cheap and compared to a stand a lone amplifier, simply inferior in many ways. The STX is not worth it's normal price tag. I would strongly suggest buying a sound card and going with a different headphone amp such as a Fiio e9 for starters.


The E9 is not bad if he wants to go that route


----------



## lb_felipe

Simca I now understand. Thank you.

The Essence has power but it lacks quality by price. Is this true?

Is FiiO E9 the best "worth it" for beyerdynamic DT880/990-600ohm or is there better alternatives (price is not a problem)? Is the beyerdynamic A1 headphones amplifier overkill for it?

To be hooked up on an X-Fi Ti HD, which output should be chosen with an external amp, RCA or P2?

Is an HRT Music Streamer II good for speakers on gaming when I do not want to play using headphones? In this condition, will the X-Fi Ti HD do anything with the audio or will every audio processing be made by DAC drivers with Windows and CPU?

Excuse me for the amount of questions and for my English.

PS: Just out of curiosity, are you a girl?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Simca I now understand. Thank you.
> 
> The Essence has power but it lacks quality by price. Is this true?
> 
> Is FiiO E9 the best "worth it" for beyerdynamic DT880/990-600ohm or is there better alternatives (price is not a problem)? Is the beyerdynamic A1 headphones amplifier overkill for it?
> 
> To be hooked up on an X-Fi Ti HD, which output should be chosen with an external amp, RCA or P2?
> 
> Is an HRT Music Streamer II good for speakers on gaming when I do not want to play using headphones? In this condition, will the X-Fi Ti HD do anything with the audio or will every audio processing be made by DAC drivers with Windows and CPU?
> 
> Excuse me for the amount of questions and for my English.
> 
> PS: Just out of curiosity, are you a girl?


Basically the STX has the ability to amplify the signal to your headphones. This allows you to hear the music from your headphones.

Without an amplifier, most of the time when you're using 600 ohm headphones the sound will either not be heard or will be so quiet that you won't be able to really listen to it.

Proper headphone amplifiers do more than just make the signal audible. They breathe life into your headphones and allow them to perform optimally. Proper headphone amplifiers will give increased bass performance, may clear up mids on certain headphones and depending on the headphone amp and tube amps used will give the sound a warmer or different sound in general. Often times people like the warmer sound, sometimes they don't. That's why there are so many headphone amplifiers out there that appeal to particular needs.

The HRT Music Streamer II is a very good DAC for speakers. I can't tell you how well they perform for gaming speakers, but I know that gaming with speakers often times isn't as enjoyable as with headphones (at least for FPS games). RPG's and other types of games speakers are very enjoyable.

From my limited experience with external DACs and gaming, I'd say that sound cards have some kind of built in DSP or perhaps the way the circuitry is layed out that makes certain sounds more present than others which allows for gunfire and footsteps to be heard more clearly than with external DACs, even if the DAC on the external is superior. It's an awkward phenomena that I'd really like to learn more about, but have yet to read anything on this.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know the answer to your last question or simply assumed that I was a guy. I thought it was flaringly obvious, but apparently not, lol.


----------



## csm725

Dear Simca
Why do you have a Hebrew letter in your user title?
Lulz


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> Dear Simca
> Why do you have a Hebrew letter in your user title?
> Lulz


All the better to make you ask silly questions with, my dear.


----------



## csm725




----------



## friend'scatdied

My personal opinion is that the difference between a $100 DAC and a $1200+ DAC is very slight, if even existent. In my audio setup the key differences were brought about by the headphones first, Amarra second, and DAC third (excluding source files of course). If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with a Mac-compatible USB DAC in the $100-150 range that offered me the functionality I needed.

I also personally believe that the difference between amps is also very slight if even existent. My outboard Peachtree Nova is oftentimes compared favorably to the Eastern Electric MiniDAC as a DAC and the Gilmore Lite as a headphone amp by other users. I think, from a scientific perspective, that all DACs and amplifiers that are well-engineered and measure admirably with regards to frequency response (i.e. flat frequency response between 20Hz-20KHz for DACs and/or amps), distortion and other relevant output figures should sound very similar if not the same. The differences between distortion figures and sonic measurement across these well-engineered DACs and amps are too small to be perceived by the human ear. So above a certain relatively inexpensive threshold, a user should be able to get a consistent level of top-notch quality.

Perceived differences in amplifiers can be brought about by differences in output impedance and the volume levels they can drive certain loads to.

If it truly sounds different inherently then it is either poorly engineered (e.g. with euphonic or pleasant sound in mind rather than fidelity) to introduce distortion into the signal, or it is defective. Tube designs are an example that deliberately introduce distortion into the signal, deluding proponents to believe that they offer a "more analog" or "warmer" sound. Low-distortion, high-fidelity, flat FR designs that measure as perfectly as we can hear are not terribly expensive.

Unfortunately I came across these realizations after I had already drank plenty of the head-fi kool-aid and invested thousands into a music setup (the catharsis came during my speaker journey on AVS). But I do consider the JH13 and Amarra to have been great investments. The Peachtree Nova is OK -- its saving grace is that it does so much (DAC, headphone amp, speaker amp, HT bypass, plenty of inputs/outputs) that the expense wasn't totally unjustified since a cheaper DAC and power amp setup would've probably cost less but also have been much larger. And in that process I would lose the ability to drive more demanding headphones to adequate volume levels.

For any budget I would invest in headphones or speakers first. They truly make the biggest difference IME. A DAC that measures "perfectly" (as far as we can hear) can be had for $100-150 easily.


----------



## wompwomp

I'm an electronica music lover, and I'm debating between the Ultrasone HFI-580's and the PRO 550's.

What are you thoughts on these two headphones?


----------



## Simca

They have almost the same amount of bass. I'd say the Pro 550s are slightly more tamed in terms of overall bass, but the Pro 550s offer a much wider sound stage. Perform, imo, better for more types of music. I think the 580s, simply for electronica, drum and bass and similar bassy kinds of music is the better headphones especially since it's 40+ dollars cheaper.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> [snip]
> 
> If it truly sounds different inherently then it is either *poorly engineered (e.g. with euphonic or pleasant sound in mind rather than fidelity) to introduce distortion into the signal*, or it is defective. Tube designs are an example that deliberately introduce distortion into the signal, deluding proponents to believe that they offer a "more analog" or "warmer" sound. Low-distortion, high-fidelity, flat FR designs that measure as perfectly as we can hear are not terribly expensive. [snip]


In general I agree with the whole post except for the part I bolded. I would say that it's engineered or designed to have lower fidelity, not that it's necessarily poorly engineered (though in practice, it's maybe insulting to engineers to call some of these audiophile boutique products as "engineered" at all, considering the design process). Actually, there are some tube designs that are extremely accurate. It just takes a lot of work and is not at all worth the cost from a price/performance perspective in most audio playback applications. But most tube designs people are looking at are like single-ended triode stuff that have very low fidelity on purpose.

The key idea is that it doesn't take a lot of money to end up with a decent design that is audibly identical (to humans listening, who don't know which one is which) to a hypothetical device of perfect fidelity.


----------



## P-Nation

Hi Simca -

Looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this thread and I certainly appreciate the effort. I've started up my own thread but wasn't exactly satisfied with the responses I've got so far, so I hope you wouldn't mind addressed a concern of mine regarding your list.

I'm looking to purchase a DAC/Soundcard(with built-in amp) or separate headphone receiver. I can't decide between the FiiO E7/E9 combo(because I want the ability to someday connect a 5.1, or 2.1 system to my PC and I'm not entirely sure the E7 will allow me to do that), or an HT Omega Claro Halo with a rated 600ohms internal amp... looking for versatility. Which would you recommend for below 250?

In the headphone arena, I'm looking for something closed-back as the point I'm looking for good headphones is to isolate both outgoing and incoming noise. Something around or below 250 would be great. Currently, I'm looking at the DT770, the Denon AH-D2000(Despite limited availability and prices close to 350 now), the Ultrasone 750 or the Shure 940. I do some gaming, but music quality is what matters most, and I listen to a lot of different stuff, but mostly trance, house, and rock. Would you have any specific recommendations on a great set-up in the 500 dollar area? I'm a bit worried the on-board amp on the Claro Halo won't properly power the headphones I've researched, but I'm open to suggestions. It seems the E7/E9 isn't exactly open to a 5.1 set-up in the future, and if purchasing an internal sound card with 5.1 processing and a separate headphone amp will save headache in the future, I'm open for that.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P-Nation*
> 
> Hi Simca -
> 
> Looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this thread and I certainly appreciate the effort. I've started up my own thread but wasn't exactly satisfied with the responses I've got so far, so I hope you wouldn't mind addressed a concern of mine regarding your list.
> 
> I'm looking to purchase a DAC/Soundcard(with built-in amp) or separate headphone receiver. I can't decide between the FiiO E7/E9 combo(because I want the ability to someday connect a 5.1, or 2.1 system to my PC and I'm not entirely sure the E7 will allow me to do that), or an HT Omega Claro Halo with a rated 600ohms internal amp... looking for versatility. Which would you recommend for below 250?
> 
> In the headphone arena, I'm looking for something closed-back as the point I'm looking for good headphones is to isolate both outgoing and incoming noise. Something around or below 250 would be great. Currently, I'm looking at the DT770, the Denon AH-D2000(Despite limited availability and prices close to 350 now), the Ultrasone 750 or the Shure 940. I do some gaming, but music quality is what matters most, and I listen to a lot of different stuff, but mostly trance, house, and rock. Would you have any specific recommendations on a great set-up in the 500 dollar area? I'm a bit worried the on-board amp on the Claro Halo won't properly power the headphones I've researched, but I'm open to suggestions. It seems the E7/E9 isn't exactly open to a 5.1 set-up in the future, and if purchasing an internal sound card with 5.1 processing and a separate headphone amp will save headache in the future, I'm open for that.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


For now you should go with the e9 as your amplifier. I would personally go with a different DAC than the e7. I don't care for the "combo" people go with. That's sort of silly and lazy and people only do it cuz "they go together" despite the e7 actually not being that great of a DAC.

The amp on that sound card is actually weaker than the one on the STX and I don't even like the STX's amp, which is why I'm telling you to go for the e9 instead.

I would cross off DT770s from your list if you like rock. Rock doesn't sound great on DT770s. Denons are a better choice, but isolation and leakage wise, they still do a fair amount. The Sennheiser HD25-1 II's are great for isolation and bass and overall performance. They're not often recommended because usually people don't care for isolation. They also don't require heavy ampage which is another reason to go with them, but since you're buying the e9, that's not really a problem.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Added a Hidden Gems section where I'll be putting headphones that have received great praise and are easily worth 5x+ what they're going for. In this list are currently Fostex T50RPs and Panasonica RPHTF600s.

I also increased the size of section titles.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I would cross off DT770s from your list if you like rock. Rock doesn't sound great on DT770s. Denons are a better choice, but isolation and leakage wise, they still do a fair amount. The Sennheiser HD25-1 II's are great for isolation and bass and overall performance. They're not often recommended because usually people don't care for isolation. They also don't require heavy ampage which is another reason to go with them, but since you're buying the e9, that's not really a problem.


The HD25-1 suffers from uninspiring treble performance especially in the upper treble. The stereo image is also quite tightly compressed and lacks focus/specificity, probably making them quite poor for any amount of gaming. The stock steel cable that comes with the HD25-1 II is also pretty garbage -- I'm not a believer in cable sound at all (from a science perspective) but the way it handles and feels is just poor.

On the plus side the HD25-1 II is one of the best-isolating full-size headphones on the market (way superior to the D2000 and DT770 in this regard). They also sound quite good for the price (assuming you can get them for under $150) and are incredibly durable (not only is every component of the headphone user-replaceable/serviceable, but the diaphragms are capable of higher SPL than most other headphones on the market without blowing out). Isolation and comfort are superb with the velour earpads.


----------



## P-Nation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> For now you should go with the e9 as your amplifier. I would personally go with a different DAC than the e7. I don't care for the "combo" people go with. That's sort of silly and lazy and people only do it cuz "they go together" despite the e7 actually not being that great of a DAC.
> The amp on that sound card is actually weaker than the one on the STX and I don't even like the STX's amp, which is why I'm telling you to go for the e9 instead.
> I would cross off DT770s from your list if you like rock. Rock doesn't sound great on DT770s. Denons are a better choice, but isolation and leakage wise, they still do a fair amount. The Sennheiser HD25-1 II's are great for isolation and bass and overall performance. They're not often recommended because usually people don't care for isolation. They also don't require heavy ampage which is another reason to go with them, but since you're buying the e9, that's not really a problem.
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Added a Hidden Gems section where I'll be putting headphones that have received great praise and are easily worth 5x+ what they're going for. In this list are currently Fostex T50RPs and Panasonica RPHTF600s.
> I also increased the size of section titles.


Thanks for the prompt reply, I appreciate it.

The e9 works as an AMP - I'm just trying to keep the entire headphone/dac/amp combo under ~500. So, whatever is the best bang for you buck in that range works for me. I liked the 'all-in-one' convenience of the Claro Halo, but I'm totally willing to give the E9 a try. Does FiiO offer a better DAC? Also, The ability to add a 2.1 speaker system in the future too would be required.

The Senn HD25s look nice, but I was ideally looking for a large, over the ear headphone design. It doesn't seem that those go over the ear...I could be wrong though. I'm relatively new to the headphone world.

The Denon AH-D2000 was my first choice and still is. However the lowest price I can find them for is $350 via Amazon. With so many people reporting they've paid ~200 for them, I'd be foolish to pay such a premium. Another contender was the Ultrasone 750.

All of these choices is enough to make my head spin! At this point I suppose I'm nit-picking but it's kind of fun in a sadistic sort of way...

EDIT: Alternatively, would you recommend I spend a little more on headphones and connect the E9 to my on-board audio until I can get a quality DAC?...Just throwing it out there.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Is there any Solution for a Sound card when i have all my MB Lanes filled?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Is there any Solution for a Sound card when i have all my MB Lanes filled?


External ones or DACs.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> External ones or DACs.


Some examples would help and what the price point?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P-Nation*
> 
> Thanks for the prompt reply, I appreciate it.
> 
> The e9 works as an AMP - I'm just trying to keep the entire headphone/dac/amp combo under ~500. So, whatever is the best bang for you buck in that range works for me. I liked the 'all-in-one' convenience of the Claro Halo, but I'm totally willing to give the E9 a try. Does FiiO offer a better DAC? Also, The ability to add a 2.1 speaker system in the future too would be required.
> 
> The Senn HD25s look nice, but I was ideally looking for a large, over the ear headphone design. It doesn't seem that those go over the ear...I could be wrong though. I'm relatively new to the headphone world.
> 
> The Denon AH-D2000 was my first choice and still is. However the lowest price I can find them for is $350 via Amazon. With so many people reporting they've paid ~200 for them, I'd be foolish to pay such a premium. Another contender was the Ultrasone 750.
> 
> All of these choices is enough to make my head spin! At this point I suppose I'm nit-picking but it's kind of fun in a sadistic sort of way...
> 
> EDIT: Alternatively, would you recommend I spend a little more on headphones and connect the E9 to my on-board audio until I can get a quality DAC?...Just throwing it out there.


Really depends on how much you care for sound leakage etc. I'm not going to say that they're awfully loud and that everyone will be yelling at you to turn them down. They're not open cans, so you shouldn't expect that. Assuming you're listening to the headphones at a moderate level rather tha max volume, then I wouldn't suspect anyone farther than 3-4 feet from you would hear them.

The 750s are another good choice, btw, and if you can't find the D2000s for 250 dollars, then go for the 750s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> External ones or DACs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some examples would help and what the price point?
Click to expand...

They're in this thread under audiophile sound cards.

That's just for starts. They range from 30 dollars to over 2000 dollars. After ~150 dollars the differences become significantly less noticeable though. The initial 150 dollars is where most of the "wow" factor is had. After that, just minor differences in how clear an instrument can sound are heard. Headphones and speakers will be playing most of the wow factor after that price point.


----------



## P-Nation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Really depends on how much you care for sound leakage etc. I'm not going to say that they're awfully loud and that everyone will be yelling at you to turn them down. They're not open cans, so you shouldn't expect that. Assuming you're listening to the headphones at a moderate level rather tha max volume, then I wouldn't suspect anyone farther than 3-4 feet from you would hear them.
> The 750s are another good choice, btw, and if you can't find the D2000s for 250 dollars, then go for the 750s.


Ah - Gotcha. The 750s are also very sexy! Would you say they'd be better for electronica and rock than the Denons? I will most likely go the Ultrasone 750 route in that event. Do you know if they cover the entire ear? If so, they are my dream headphone.

Any idea what to do with the remaining 250 for a DAC/Amp? Thanks again.









EDIT: Would a DAC/AMP combo like the Audinst HUD-MX1 or Yulong u100 be a better option for 200?


----------



## Simca

That's up to your individual needs. You have to remember you won't be using the amp portion for the Pro 750s. Yes, they'll cover your ears completely. If you just want a 200 dollar DAC there are better options available. Check head-fi for the best answer for your needs. If you plan to move to a headphone that requires an amp later though and don't want to buy a dedicated amp later, that's a different question.


----------



## BillOhio

Nice to see Audioengine getting respect in the first post of this thread. I LOVE my P4's although they did need a sub.


----------



## P-Nation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If you plan to move to a headphone that requires an amp later though and don't want to buy a dedicated amp later, that's a different question.


This.

I'd like to future-proof as much as possible. The DAC/AMP combo seems like the best bet at this point. I did a bit of research and I'm leaning towards the Audinst HUD-MX1 for it's 5.1 capabilities as well. Would that be advisable?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *P-Nation*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If you plan to move to a headphone that requires an amp later though and don't want to buy a dedicated amp later, that's a different question.
> 
> 
> 
> This.
> 
> I'd like to future-proof as much as possible. The DAC/AMP combo seems like the best bet at this point. I did a bit of research and I'm leaning towards the Audinst HUD-MX1 for it's 5.1 capabilities as well. Would that be advisable?
Click to expand...

Every body has their own needs, if you feel that's the right one for you, go for it. I would ask around head-fi for more suggestions.


----------



## crizthakidd

so i just bought these cheap speakers
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&utm_source=googleps

and was impressed much like others about how nice they sound for the price. with a little mod they were sounding nice. it gets boomy after high vol so i am looking for a sub that will shake things up i love house music, adefinitely gaming , and am doing a little more mixing now too so i def need high quality 120-170$ range for a sub to go with these speakers just to bring up the quality a bit more. any recommendations


----------



## Iceman23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crizthakidd*
> 
> so i just bought these cheap speakers
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&utm_source=googleps
> and was impressed much like others about how nice they sound for the price. with a little mod they were sounding nice. it gets boomy after high vol so i am looking for a sub that will shake things up i love house music, adefinitely gaming , and am doing a little more mixing now too so i def need high quality 120-170$ range for a sub to go with these speakers just to bring up the quality a bit more. any recommendations


Here are a few solid options in that price range:

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1322750169&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-SUB-120-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000C9NV78/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1322750188&sr=1-1


----------



## vitality

hey guys, I need a bit of help for some headphones









I do mainly XBOX gaming. I use my PC alot too for music, though. Currently I have AD700's and am selling them, I wasnt a huge fan of them anyways. Id like more bass. I'd say im 50/50 for music/gaming. Currently i'm looking at Refurbished sennheiser HD595's for $125, Ultrasone Pro 550s for $150 and the Beyerdynamic DT770s

Im trying to stay as cheap as possible because im going to be getting a new sound card also. I don't play pc games that much anymore so ill sell my Titanium HD for an asus xonar STX or so.

Which would you guys get? thanks in advance


----------



## Caz

Torn between Sony XB700's and ATH-M50's. Mainly going to be used for dubstep (75%), Everything else (25%).

Thinking of getting an Amp too, but not sure what will be good for portable use and high quality at home too. Price range is >$50 on the amp, unless something amazing is less than $75.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Torn between Sony XB700's and ATH-M50's. Mainly going to be used for dubstep (75%), Everything else (25%).
> Thinking of getting an Amp too, but not sure what will be good for portable use and high quality at home too. Price range is >$50 on the amp, unless something amazing is less than $75.


Are you sure it is exactly 75 % and 25 %?







. Get the M50s you won't regret it


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitality*
> 
> hey guys, I need a bit of help for some headphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do mainly XBOX gaming. I use my PC alot too for music, though. Currently I have AD700's and am selling them, I wasnt a huge fan of them anyways. Id like more bass. I'd say im 50/50 for music/gaming. Currently i'm looking at Refurbished sennheiser HD595's for $125, Ultrasone Pro 550s for $150 and the Beyerdynamic DT770s
> 
> Im trying to stay as cheap as possible because im going to be getting a new sound card also. I don't play pc games that much anymore so ill sell my Titanium HD for an asus xonar STX or so.
> 
> Which would you guys get? thanks in advance


Keep the TiHD, STX isn't worth it.

Go with the Pro 550s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Torn between Sony XB700's and ATH-M50's. Mainly going to be used for dubstep (75%), Everything else (25%).
> 
> Thinking of getting an Amp too, but not sure what will be good for portable use and high quality at home too. Price range is >$50 on the amp, unless something amazing is less than $75.


XB700s, if you want more bass, XB500s. XB700s will give you more clarity. M50s aren't as bassy as people make them out to be, but they'll give you more clarity than the XB700s.


----------



## whitemencanjump

So after reading this thread and many reviews on head-fi, I think I'm going to get the Samson SR850. I will be using it for gaming mostly, but I really want something that will immerse me in the game, I'm not really looking for staging as much but that would definitely be a plus. I was originally looking at the AD700 because they seem to be highly recommended for gaming, but when I do listen to music I listen to a lot of dubstep, so their lack of bass was a big turn off for me. So my question is are the SR850's the right phones for me? Also, how easy are they to drive and what soundcards would you recommend? I'm trying to stay around $100-$150 for the phones and sound card.

EDIT: I've also been hearing some good things about these Aurvana Live! and it seems like they would meet my criteria as well. How would they compare to the SR850's for gaming?


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vitality*
> 
> hey guys, I need a bit of help for some headphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do mainly XBOX gaming. I use my PC alot too for music, though. Currently I have AD700's and am selling them, I wasnt a huge fan of them anyways. Id like more bass. I'd say im 50/50 for music/gaming. Currently i'm looking at Refurbished sennheiser HD595's for $125, Ultrasone Pro 550s for $150 and the Beyerdynamic DT770s
> Im trying to stay as cheap as possible because im going to be getting a new sound card also. I don't play pc games that much anymore so ill sell my Titanium HD for an asus xonar STX or so.
> Which would you guys get? thanks in advance


Keep your Titanium HD, its very good card. Getting the STX isnt worth it unless you need that amp that bad, but you can always use a external amp instead.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Are you sure it is exactly 75 % and 25 %?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Get the M50s you won't regret it


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> XB700s, if you want more bass, XB500s. XB700s will give you more clarity. M50s aren't as bassy as people make them out to be, but they'll give you more clarity than the XB700s.


Thanks for the responses guys. Repped (not much lol). After reading, watching, and listening to a couple more reviews I feel that I might go with the XB700/500s, mainly because of my price range. Any thoughts on the amp I mentioned earlier;
Quote:


> Thinking of getting an Amp too, but not sure what will be good for portable use and high quality at home too. Price range is >$50 on the amp, unless something amazing is less than $75.


Was leaning towards the always mentioned FiiO e6, but (EDIT) after reading a few reviews on the Sansa Clip Zip's Amp, I feel that I shouldn't need one for it. So will JUST being using the amp for home use.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Thanks for the responses guys. Repped (not much lol). After reading, watching, and listening to a couple more reviews I feel that I might go with the XB700/500s, mainly because of my price range. Any thoughts on the amp I mentioned earlier;
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking of getting an Amp too, but not sure what will be good for portable use and high quality at home too. Price range is >$50 on the amp, unless something amazing is less than $75.
> 
> 
> 
> Was leaning towards the always mentioned FiiO e6, but (EDIT) after reading a few reviews on the Sansa Clip Zip's Amp, I feel that I shouldn't need one for it. So will JUST being using the amp for home use.
Click to expand...

Bump this post. Looking for a dedicated amp for home use on a PC and maybe a 360. ~$50.


----------



## Simca

Don't bother getting an amp if you don't need it. Especially a 50 dollar amp.


----------



## exhaile

Would be nice if you could add a section for people interested in Music production( or is that the same as audiophile). What about M-Audio Audiophile cards and studio monitors?


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Don't bother getting an amp if you don't need it. Especially a 50 dollar amp.


I was thinking the same thing. Later down the line I might get a Fiio A1 to start my Amp journey.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exhaile*
> 
> Would be nice if you could add a section for people interested in Music production( or is that the same as audiophile). What about M-Audio Audiophile cards and studio monitors?


Music production is way different -- M-Audio is a pretty solid choice for their external interfaces and stereo monitors.

Their BX5a outperforms AudioEngine's entire line-up IMHO.


----------



## Limniscate

I just got the M-Audio DSM1 for $368, and they sound better than any computer speakers I've ever heard by far. I can't comment on Audio Engine since I've never heard them. The M-Audio BX5 D2 also sound good, but you'll probably want a sub to go with them.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Limniscate*
> 
> I just got the M-Audio DSM1 for $368, and they sound better than any computer speakers I've ever heard by far. I can't comment on Audio Engine since I've never heard them. The M-Audio BX5 D2 also sound good, but you'll probably want a sub to go with them.


AudioEngine is way overrated IMHO. I recommended my freshman-year roommate a pair of A5s based on the praise they were getting and he ended up pretty disappointed. A floormate of ours had the BX5as that wrecked them in every respect, as did my lowly Infinity Primus P152s (with vintage Denon receiver) at the time. The AudioEngines have too much bloat and lack detail/refinement.

My roommate made a similar mistake with the A2s.. very overrated, certainly not worth the money they ask for.

When it comes to affordable active computer speakers I generally think M-Audio or KRK is the way to go. With a more lenient budget, Adam monitors are worth looking at.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Limniscate*
> 
> I just got the M-Audio DSM1 for $368, and they sound better than any computer speakers I've ever heard by far. I can't comment on Audio Engine since I've never heard them. The M-Audio BX5 D2 also sound good, but you'll probably want a sub to go with them.
> 
> 
> 
> AudioEngine is way overrated IMHO. I recommended my freshman-year roommate a pair of A5s based on the praise they were getting and he ended up pretty disappointed. A floormate of ours had the BX5as that wrecked them in every respect, as did my lowly Infinity Primus P152s (with vintage Denon receiver) at the time. The AudioEngines have too much bloat and lack detail/refinement.
> 
> My roommate made a similar mistake with the A2s.. very overrated, certainly not worth the money they ask for.
> 
> When it comes to affordable active computer speakers I generally think M-Audio or KRK is the way to go. With a more lenient budget, Adam monitors are worth looking at.
Click to expand...

Not at all. They're worth their price. The BX5A's are normally 250 dollar speakers unless you can get a deal on them for 150. That would put it between the A2's and the A5's. There's a lot to be answered as well in your predicament. What DAC was being used with the A2s? What kind of music was he listening to when he made that purchase? Was the same DAC being used when he moved onto the BX5As?

On top of that the BX5A is a monitor whereas the Audioengines are not. This in turn makes the frequency response much different.

Vocals on the Audioengines sound much better. The voice comes across powerful and weighty while the BX5A makes them sound light.

Bass wise the Audioengines are hands down winners (not counting subwoofers added).

The BX5A is harsher on audio and is very revealing. A poorly recorded song will sound terrible on the BX5A's whereas the Audioengine is more forgiving. Likewise, the Audioengine has a much more laid back sound to it. The BX5A's are more analytical I think, but I think do provide more...eh..clarity and crispness of sound than the Audioengines.

So, I don't think the Audioengines are overpriced. I think the BX5A's are just priced very well and go on sale much more than Audioengines (never go on sale).

Different sounds for different people with different needs.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not at all. They're worth their price. The BX5A's are normally 250 dollar speakers unless you can get a deal on them for 150. That would put it between the A2's and the A5's. There's a lot to be answered as well in your predicament. What DAC was being used with the A2s? What kind of music was he listening to when he made that purchase? Was the same DAC being used when he moved onto the BX5As?
> On top of that the BX5A is a monitor whereas the Audioengines are not. This in turn makes the frequency response much different.
> Vocals on the Audioengines sound much better. The voice comes across powerful and weighty while the BX5A makes them sound light.
> Bass wise the Audioengines are hands down winners (not counting subwoofers added).
> The BX5A is harsher on audio and is very revealing. A poorly recorded song will sound terrible on the BX5A's whereas the Audioengine is more forgiving. Likewise, the Audioengine has a much more laid back sound to it. The BX5A's are more analytical I think, but I think do provide more...eh..clarity and crispness of sound than the Audioengines.
> So, I don't think the Audioengines are overpriced. I think the BX5A's are just priced very well and go on sale much more than Audioengines (never go on sale).
> Different sounds for different people with different needs.


I humbly disagree on what you find to be strengths of the A5s. I think the bloat across the AudioEngine line intrudes on the vocal performance, especially with regards to male vocal performance. The A2s are serious offenders, with an obscene emphasis on upper bass (for the size) that I assume is designed to compensate for the small cabinet but ends up coming off as overbearing. The A2 and A5 have uninspiring treble performance too IME, maybe because of the mid-low emphasis in the FR response.

The only affordable active monitors I could recommend on the merit of value and sound are from M-Audio, KRK and (at a slightly higher price point) Adam monitors. I think these options soundly trump the AudioEngine line in most respects, and that there's no real reason to go for the A2s or A5s (especially when you can build a really nice passive setup for the latter's price).

Perhaps just differences of opinion. I found that people that listened to the AudioEngines (both A5 and A2) and M-Audio BX5as side-by-side preferred the latter by a landslide, and these weren't studio people either. I recommended AudioEngine in the past (again, both the A5 and the A2) and now I think you _can_ do better for their price.

This may sound audacious but I think the only things AudioEngine's compare favorably to are consumer-oriented entry-level setups from the likes of Harman Kardon, JBL, Bose et alia.


----------



## Domino

Have you given the AKG HD 272s a shot? Seems to be amazing gaming headphones but need a good source/amp.


----------



## kdon

Hey guys!! I decided to improve my sound setup since my POS headset just died. I am looking for a setup around ~$200 dollars. Thinking of picking up a set of Audio Techinica A700's with an ASUS Xonar DX from the egg (have $60 in gift cards







). Anything I should know/change about this? I was also curious about "PAX" drivers that I've heard about a bit and I was wondering if this matters to me! Thanks! Any help is appreciated by this blossoming audiophile


----------



## FearSC549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not at all. They're worth their price. The BX5A's are normally 250 dollar speakers unless you can get a deal on them for 150. That would put it between the A2's and the A5's. There's a lot to be answered as well in your predicament. What DAC was being used with the A2s? What kind of music was he listening to when he made that purchase? Was the same DAC being used when he moved onto the BX5As?
> On top of that the BX5A is a monitor whereas the Audioengines are not. This in turn makes the frequency response much different.
> Vocals on the Audioengines sound much better. The voice comes across powerful and weighty while the BX5A makes them sound light.
> Bass wise the Audioengines are hands down winners (not counting subwoofers added).
> The BX5A is harsher on audio and is very revealing. A poorly recorded song will sound terrible on the BX5A's whereas the Audioengine is more forgiving. Likewise, the Audioengine has a much more laid back sound to it. The BX5A's are more analytical I think, but I think do provide more...eh..clarity and crispness of sound than the Audioengines.
> So, I don't think the Audioengines are overpriced. I think the BX5A's are just priced very well and go on sale much more than Audioengines (never go on sale).
> Different sounds for different people with different needs.


Nope, AudioEngine is just overpriced IMO. I'd rather get a pair of KRK Rokit 5 or even the BX8a, and both are lower than the A5.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Have you given the AKG HD *K*272s a shot? Seems to be amazing gaming headphones but need a good source/amp.


There are better gaming headphones for that price range IMO(considering amp cost); Also, they're closed.


----------



## csm725

I like my Xonar DG + Sennheiser HD 558. It's quite nice. Planning to get a speaker upgrade over the summer. Budget is $150. Ideas? Only requirement is that it has a headphone passthrough audio port.


----------



## FearSC549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Keep the TiHD, STX isn't worth it.
> Go with the Pro 550s.
> XB700s, if you want more bass, XB500s. XB700s will give you more clarity. M50s aren't as bassy as people make them out to be, but they'll give you more clarity than the XB700s.


lol clarity...Define clarity

Also, XB700 and 500 has the same amount of bass. The reason why people think the XB500 has more bass is because people crank up the volume more to compensate for the recessed(quite noticeable) mids.


----------



## lb_felipe

Is there any good headphones amp, capable to drive a DT 990 (600-ohm), which has dual output with a selector on its front panel to switch between the two outputs, being a peamped for loudspeakers and another amped for headphones?

This would solve the problem with switching between headphones and speakers of SB X-Fi Ti HD by allowing you switch between them pushing a button on front panel amp.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Is there any good headphones amp, capable to drive a DT 990 (600-ohm), which has dual output with a selector on its front panel to switch between the two outputs, being a peamped for loudspeakers and another amped for headphones?
> This would solve the problem with switching between headphones and speakers of SB X-Fi Ti HD by allowing you switch between them pushing a button on front panel amp.


It sounds to me like you want the straightforward feature ASUS has implemented in their STX card. You have a simple button in the ASUS center which allows you to switch between headphones and speakers. I wonder if the Xonar Essence One actually does what you want ...


----------



## lb_felipe

Yes. This is what I want.

I guess Xonar Essence One has this feature by software but it is a DAC and amp. I know it can be used just as an amp for SB X-Fi Ti HD, but it is much expensive and overkill for this.

An ultra expensive DAC that would be perfect it is the beyerdynamic A1. It has dual output but I guess it does not allow an easy switching between its outputs.

Nevertheless I am glad you understood what I want.


----------



## DriftinTofu

Can someone please recommend a good PCI card for gaming all my PCI-e slots are covered by my graphics card...seems like all the good cards are PCI-e, i will be using the Sennheiser pc360s most likely and im not sure if an amp would be better than a soundcard.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Yes. This is what I want.
> 
> I guess Xonar Essence One has this feature by software but it is a DAC and amp. I know it can be used just as an amp for SB X-Fi Ti HD, but it is much expensive and overkill for this.
> 
> An ultra expensive DAC that would be perfect it is the beyerdynamic A1. It has dual output but I guess it does not allow an easy switching between its outputs.
> 
> Nevertheless I am glad you understood what I want.


I hope someone knows of a product like this because I am also interested too







.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DriftinTofu*
> 
> Can someone please recommend a good PCI card for gaming all my PCI-e slots are covered by my graphics card...seems like all the good cards are PCI-e, i will be using the Sennheiser pc360s most likely and im not sure if an amp would be better than a soundcard.


The Xonar ST is anamazing card on PCI but not stellar at gaming.


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> I hope someone knows of a product like this because I am also interested too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> The Xonar ST is anamazing card on PCI but not stellar at gaming.


That would be a problem haha, gaming is priority


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DriftinTofu*
> 
> That would be a problem haha, gaming is priority


Then your best bet is creative but if memory serves, none of their newer cards is on PCI







. The Audigy ones are PCI but the support for them in Vista and W7 is poor







.


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Then your best bet is creative but if memory serves, none of their newer cards is on PCI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The Audigy ones are PCI but the support for them in Vista and W7 is poor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I know it sucks....i might just get an amp but i dont know much about those.....


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DriftinTofu*
> 
> I know it sucks....i might just get an amp but i dont know much about those.....


Those are not good for gaming. You might as well get the XONAR ST then


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Those are not good for gaming. You might as well get the XONAR ST then


Im not sure yet i still have time to research haha...i always go research crazy before i buy anything


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Those are not good for gaming. You might as well get the XONAR ST then


I might get this....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132007&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Sound+Card-_-ASUS-_-29132007


----------



## Domino

For sound quality sakes: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004

For gaming sakes (in your position): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102032


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> For sound quality sakes: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004
> For gaming sakes (in your position): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102032


I think you did not notice the price on the Claro and for the Creative USB, those cards are very poor. Even for gaming.


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> For sound quality sakes: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004
> For gaming sakes (in your position): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102032


my budget max is 300 total for both soundcard and headset, otherwise i probably would get the Omega card, and the usb soundcards according to what the majority thinks are horrible, im either getting the sennheiser pc350/360 and for soundcard i havnt decided yet.

Do all soundcards have built in amps?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DriftinTofu*
> 
> Do all soundcards have built in amps?


If it has a headphone-out (or a volume-controlled output in general), it has a built-in amp.


----------



## kyo1992

lol you should update the price, Sennheiser HD555 is officially more expensive than Audio Technica AD700.


----------



## kyo1992

btw I don't know what to choose. Which headphone should I get under 100 for gaming and music? is wireless headphone good because sometime i watch some tv shows and want to lay on bed instead lol.


----------



## Crax

hey everyone just a quick question. keep in mind that all i do is listen to music or movies on the comp and maybe 5% gaming. i will also be getting the klipsch promedia 2.1 soon so which of these two cards will compliment me the most since they are the same price:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132007


----------



## Epyon415

So after much browsing I have narrowed down my choices to either the Audio-Technica MTH-50s or one of these Ultrasone (HFI-580, 750, Pro 550). Hopefully I can sample some tomorrow at Guitar Center.

My questions are regarding sound cards and portable amps. I am thinking of getting the Asus Xonar DG or DX (need to verify my available pci slot), and am curious if it is possible to have both my speakers and headphone hooked up simultaneously (I am guessing no because of single line out?). And for a portable amp, what is most commonly recommend? I am listening to mainly rap/hip-hop/R&B on my 1st gen iPod and 1st gen iPad while at work.

Thanks for this guide!


----------



## Simca

Crax, go with the Striker.

Kyo, wireless headphones are inferior to wired solutions. Most good headphones comes with a 6+ foot cable, so unless your bed is pretty far from your computer, you won't need wireless anyway.

Also, thanks for the update on the price, will change that to reflect today's standards. IMO even less reason to buy HD555s.

Epyon, you should go with the 580s if your budget is under 100, 550s if your budget is 150, and 750 if your budget extends that high. I would not recommend the ATM50s. Also, I don't believe you have can speakers and a headphone in at the same time unless the speakers have a headphone plug into them. It's been a while since I had a Xonar DX though, so I can't quite remember for sure.


----------



## swarm87

i grew up with sony walkman headphones currently using a set of mdr-ex51lp high proformance earbuds but want real headphones for pc gaming/ipod use. are there any good sonys out there in the 75-100usd range?


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Most good headphones comes with a 6+ foot cable, so unless your bed is pretty far from your computer, you won't need wireless anyway.


Even if it is there are really long extension cables available, Grado have a 4.5m (~15ft) cable


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Yes. This is what I want.
> I guess Xonar Essence One has this feature by software but it is a DAC and amp. I know it can be used just as an amp for SB X-Fi Ti HD, but it is much expensive and overkill for this.
> An ultra expensive DAC that would be perfect it is the beyerdynamic A1. It has dual output but I guess it does not allow an easy switching between its outputs.
> Nevertheless I am glad you understood what I want.


All you need is a external amp like a matrix M stage, Tube Magic A1 which will work with the DT990/600ohm, they just dont have a output switch for picking which output to use.


----------



## lb_felipe

Thank you for reply. But if they will not allow me choice the output, switching by pushing a button on their front panels, they do not work as a "my" ideal amp for output from SB X-Fi Ti HD because always I want hear the speakers I will have to unplug the headphones from them.

Apropos, is Schiit Valhalla a wise choice for beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms)?


----------



## DriftinTofu

Sorry for double posting haha, but i was wondering what would be better the Asus Xonar DG (because of amp)or the Asus Xonar D1 , I just bought a pair of beyerdynamic dt770`s and am having trouble picking a soundcard since my soundcard budget is 100 and im limited to PCI slots. Its only going to be used at home for gaming/music/movies.


----------



## lb_felipe

What about the following computer audio setup? Has it synergy and is it worth?

Gaming Headphones: beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms)
Microphone: Zalman ZM-MIC1
Satellites: Swan M200MKII
Subwoofer: Dayton Audio SUB-120
Sound Card (For Headphones): Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
DAC (for 2.1 Speakers): HRT Music Streamer II
Amp (for Headphones): FiiO E9
Stereo Audio Cable (from DAC to Subwoofer): Monoprice RCA Cable (5347)
Stereo Audio Cable (from Subwoofer to Active Speaker): Monoprice RCA Cable (5347)

It should be used the USB Cable included in E9's box to interconnect PC and DAC;
It should be used the Stereo RCA to Stereo 3.5mm jack Y-Cable included in SB X-Fi Ti HD's box to interconnect the Sound Card and Amp).

Is there anything to consider?

Have you any suggestion?

Please comment. Whatever tips or recommendation will be appreciated.


----------



## Nitrogannex

Hey guys I was wondering about upgrading the sound on my current rig with better audio. I do a lot of gaming Bf3, Crysis 2,etc. , but usually have low music in the background and I was wondering of there is a better card/ headphones combo that would make the difference between them more clear. I listen to a lot of punk and metal with some other stuff and my current setup is the onboard audio on a gigabyte 990fxa- ud3 and either Razer Carcharias' or Senheiser Cx-150's. What's your recommendation on a $100 card and a $150 pair of Headphones. Please, no speakers, I live in a very echoey building and the neighbors dont like gunshots at 3.am lol, thanks


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nitrogannex*
> 
> Hey guys I was wondering about upgrading the sound on my current rig with better audio. I do a lot of gaming Bf3, Crysis 2,etc. , but usually have low music in the background and I was wondering of there is a better card/ headphones combo that would make the difference between them more clear. I listen to a lot of punk and metal with some other stuff and my current setup is the onboard audio on a gigabyte 990fxa- ud3 and either Razer Carcharias' or Senheiser Cx-150's. What's your recommendation on a $100 card and a $150 pair of Headphones. Please, no speakers, I live in a very echoey building and the neighbors dont like gunshots at 3.am lol, thanks


Well if your getting headphones depending on what your looking for...like are you obsessed with every little detail or are you more like if it works il use it.

I just got an Asus Xonar DG (built in headphone amp) and some DT770s which are insanely comfortable you can wear them for hours on end, they have all the bass you could ask for and are also very clear if you tinker with the soundcard, only downside about them is the positioning of other people running around is lacking a little bit but thats not a big deal for me.

i got the headphones for 160 including shipping and you cant beat the soundcard for its price (30 bucks) you can probably find them for a little more, oh and i also listen to alot of rock and bass heavy music like As I Lay dying, Lincoln Park, ATB, Kid Cudi.....etc


----------



## nleksan

Hey, this is my first post on the forum (although I've lurked for a long time.. learned how to build a water-cooled rig from you guys!!!), and I figured that as a self-proclaimed Audiophile, I would give my two cents (a brief two cents, at that... I can "geek out" and end up writing a novel when I intended to only post a few sentences haha).

I absolute whole-heartedly agree with the original poster regarding the Grado SR225's. I have a pair of the SR225's (not the "i" model) with the Mahogany "furniture" and the original less-comfortable band (etc), and they were my first "high-end" headphone purchase which I made in the summer of 2005. I have since acquired four more pairs of Grado cans (SR325i's, RS2i's, SR125i's, and RS80i's) and I have gone through a number of headphone amps and all different "accessories". While the RS2i's are certainly amazing headphones, there is NO argument to be made there, I have to admit that my nearly-7-year-old SR225's are my "go-to" headphones for almost everything.
They have incredibly rich, dynamic sound and unlike the cheaper models, they DO have a noticeable "soundstage", all while delivering warm, crisp audio. This is a result of the combination Grado has perfected: open-air cans and dual-drivers (per ear). As a result, you get strong bass that doesn't wipe out the highs at all, and the mids are very clear and sharp. I love these for watching "action-y movies" because no matter how many gunshots, explosions, and whatnot is going on the background, the actors' voices are still unbelievably crisp and discernible; I returned a pair of Senheiser headphones (can't recall which ones they were) because they just couldn't do this as well (I am NOT a Senheiser "basher", and I think they have a number of phenomenal headphones that actually, in most cases, are superior for use with computers for gaming purposes than are any Grado's).

Unfortunately, you have to be patient... All of my Grado headphones have required a "break-in period", ranging from ~70hrs for the SR80i's to ~125hrs for the RS2i's. My SR225's have over 10,000hrs of listening and they have only gotten better with time! I know how much I sound like a Grado shill, but I have no affiliation with them, I just love their products. What I hate, though, is that the "SR" line is no longer available with the wood furniture... It's caused a loss of sound warmth, which is why (I believe) the OP considers them ideal for "hard rock" type music :/ If you can get an older pair, particularly the wooden SR225's, DO IT! They play anything beautifully.
In fact, ever since my SR225's got broken-in, I haven't been able to listen to .mp3's anymore, except on cheaper headphones/ear-buds that I use with my phone for music. You WILL notice the missing "layers" of sound with compressed audio, so you will likely switch to a lossless format. Consider getting a bigger hard drive









Regarding home theater, or computer HD Theater Sound, I have a pair of Cerwin-Vega CMX-212's that I use for my home theater that I have been so impressed with, I got a pair of VE5-M's to function as the FR/FL speakers on my primary PC (Klipsch Center, RR/LR, CW 12" Sub). Regarding my Home Theater, the CMX-212's were originally Front-Left/Right, but have been moved to Surround-Left/Right (on a 9.3 setup scaled to 11.3: has both front high L/R and front wide L/R, as well as 2x10" subwoofers and 1x15", with the front towers and the Cerwin-Vega towers having 12" cones of their own).
My Home Theater is currently a work-in-progress, and I don't have it all set up yet as I just recently got the new receiver that can handle 11.3ch audio, so I'm relegating the old receiver to the first-floor to function as a floor-wide receiver for music/etc. At least my basement has a false wall, so wiring is super-easy to hide









Sorry for the rant, I get off on a tangent easily... But, my biggest recommendation is this: DO NOT INVEST IN QUALITY HEADPHONES UNLESS YOU ARE ALSO INVESTING IN A QUALITY HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER! It really makes so much difference....

Thanks for having my on your forum, everyone, and I hope to continue learning as much as I have already; I also hope that I can give back as much as I can, considering how much I've "taken away" from this site!

Take care!
- nleksan


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> In fact, ever since my SR225's got broken-in, I haven't been able to listen to .mp3's anymore, except on cheaper headphones/ear-buds that I use with my phone for music. *You WILL notice the missing "layers" of sound with compressed audio, so you will likely switch to a lossless format.* Consider getting a bigger hard drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I get off on a tangent easily... But, my biggest recommendation is this: *DO NOT INVEST IN QUALITY HEADPHONES UNLESS YOU ARE ALSO INVESTING IN A QUALITY HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER!* It really makes so much difference....


I respectfully disagree with these points.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> In fact, ever since my SR225's got broken-in, I haven't been able to listen to .mp3's anymore, except on cheaper headphones/ear-buds that I use with my phone for music. *You WILL notice the missing "layers" of sound with compressed audio, so you will likely switch to a lossless format.* Consider getting a bigger hard drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I get off on a tangent easily... But, my biggest recommendation is this: *DO NOT INVEST IN QUALITY HEADPHONES UNLESS YOU ARE ALSO INVESTING IN A QUALITY HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER!* It really makes so much difference....
> 
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree with these points.
Click to expand...

If the headphone requires amplification to run properly then there's nothing to disagree with. Running 600 ohm headphones off a sound card or DAC without proper amplification will make them sound poor.

Running low ohm headphones or headphones that don't need to be run on an amplifier will not improve it's sound.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If the headphone requires amplification to run properly then there's nothing to disagree with. Running 600 ohm headphones off a sound card or DAC without proper amplification will make them sound poor.
> Running low ohm headphones or headphones that don't need to be run on an amplifier will not improve it's sound.


Read the bolded again. There is a distinction to be made between impedance/sensitivity and quality.

And no, they will not make them sound _poor_. They will just not be driven to sufficient volume levels.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> It sounds to me like you want the straightforward feature ASUS has implemented in their STX card. You have a simple button in the ASUS center which allows you to switch between headphones and speakers. I wonder if the Xonar Essence One actually does what you want ...


I think I found the solution for this case: Audio-gd C-2.2.



"Pre button: Push in for preamp output, out for headphone output".

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2new/C2.2EN.htm

Does this mean that, by pressing a button, the sound will no longer be sent to the headphones to be sent to the speakers?

One more question: can that Neutrik socket receive a 3.5mm or 6.3mm plug of headphones without an adapter (I am a layman)?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If the headphone requires amplification to run properly then there's nothing to disagree with. Running 600 ohm headphones off a sound card or DAC without proper amplification will make them sound poor.
> Running low ohm headphones or headphones that don't need to be run on an amplifier will not improve it's sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the bolded again. There is a distinction to be made between impedance/sensitivity and quality.
> 
> And no, they will not make them sound _poor_. They will just not be driven to sufficient volume levels.
Click to expand...

That's where we diverge in opinion. Headphones that require a strong amplification like the AKG K701's not only "get louder" as you seem to believe, but also benefit in other areas. Bass is often the most noticeable element that becomes controlled. Without an amplifier a high end bassy headphone will sound sloppy and bloated. The amplifier will control the bass and make it sound tighter.

In certain headphones, mids that were recessed become less so. That's not to say there's a super amazing difference in the mids being recessed, but it IS noticeable.

If I understand you correctly, you seem to believe all an amplifier does is raise the volume of headphones. If that's the case, what would be the difference between a 30 dollar amp and a 1000 dollar amp? They'll both raise the volume.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> *That's where we diverge in opinion.* Headphones that require a strong amplification like the AKG K701's not only "get louder" as you seem to believe, but also benefit in other areas. Bass is often the most noticeable element that becomes controlled. Without an amplifier a high end bassy headphone will sound sloppy and bloated. The amplifier will control the bass and make it sound tighter.
> In certain headphones, mids that were recessed become less so. That's not to say there's a super amazing difference in the mids being recessed, but it IS noticeable.
> *If I understand you correctly, you seem to believe all an amplifier does is raise the volume of headphones. If that's the case, what would be the difference between a 30 dollar amp and a 1000 dollar amp? They'll both raise the volume.*


Indeed.

I'll contend that if two amplifiers are engineered with sound design principles and measure well (i.e. flat frequency response from 20Hz-20KHz, low distortion, low stereo crosstalk, low noise, sufficient dynamic range) beyond the tolerances of human hearing, they will prevent no benefit over one another. It is very easy to measure beyond the tolerances of human hearing by the way -- our ears simply are not sensitive enough to detect differences in fractions of percentage points in figures like THD between good designs.

It is relatively inexpensive to attain the minimum threshold whereupon improvements to the measurements become imperceptible.

Now there are certainly "audiophile" designs that introduce distortion and "euphony" at the expense of true fidelity, and charge you more while performing all kinds of debauchery to the integrity of the audio signal.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> *That's where we diverge in opinion.* Headphones that require a strong amplification like the AKG K701's not only "get louder" as you seem to believe, but also benefit in other areas. Bass is often the most noticeable element that becomes controlled. Without an amplifier a high end bassy headphone will sound sloppy and bloated. The amplifier will control the bass and make it sound tighter.
> In certain headphones, mids that were recessed become less so. That's not to say there's a super amazing difference in the mids being recessed, but it IS noticeable.
> *If I understand you correctly, you seem to believe all an amplifier does is raise the volume of headphones. If that's the case, what would be the difference between a 30 dollar amp and a 1000 dollar amp? They'll both raise the volume.*
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I'll contend that if two amplifiers are engineered with sound design principles and measure well (i.e. flat frequency response from 20Hz-20KHz, low distortion, low stereo crosstalk, low noise, sufficient dynamic range) beyond the tolerances of human hearing, they will prevent no benefit over one another. It is very easy to measure beyond the tolerances of human hearing by the way -- our ears simply are not sensitive enough to detect differences in fractions of percentage points in figures like THD between good designs.
> 
> It is relatively inexpensive to attain the minimum threshold whereupon improvements to the measurements become imperceptible.
> 
> Now there are certainly "audiophile" designs that introduce distortion and "euphony" at the expense of true fidelity, and charge you more while performing all kinds of debauchery to the integrity of the audio signal.
Click to expand...

I agree that a relatively cheap amplifier can be attained for a fraction of the price of more expensive headphone amps that deliver similar or barely inferior quality, but that's not to say there is no difference in the quality of an amp. That's also not to say that all a headphone amp does is raise volume. In my eyes, if that's all you heard the amplifier do, then you completely missed the benefit.

Also, in regards to the first portion of your response, I contend that for most low priced amplifiers, that kind of design principles are often not found until you're spending a few hundred or assemble the amplifier yourself in which case you will still spend over 100 dollars.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I agree that a relatively cheap amplifier can be attained for a fraction of the price of more expensive headphone amps that deliver similar or barely inferior quality, but that's not to say there is no difference in the quality of an amp. That's also not to say that all a headphone amp does is raise volume. In my eyes, if that's all you heard the amplifier do, then you completely missed the benefit.
> Also, in regards to the first portion of your response, I contend that for most low priced amplifiers, that kind of design principles are often not found until you're spending a few hundred or assemble the amplifier yourself in which case you will still spend over 100 dollars.


Yes, my definition of "relatively inexpensive" is $80-150.

I think that the differences in perceived "quality" are completely explainable by measurements like output impedance. In which case driving comparable loads that obviate any mismatch in output impedance should again yield the same results.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> I respectfully disagree with these points.


I understand your disagreement from having read the following posts, but I wanted to clarify...

The reason that I was so "adamant" about requiring a headphone amplifier is actually two-fold:
1) People will go out and buy a pair of $300-600 Grado/Senheiser/etc headphones, plug them into their computer using nothing but the 1/4" to 1/8" adapter, and then start whining and complaining about how "these headphones are so quiet! these suck! waaah waah!". I know that with my Grado SR225's, SR325i's, and RS2i's, that when I plug them directly into an iPod, my old OG Droid, or my new Galaxy Nexus, that at MAX volume they sound no louder than Apple's Crappy Earbuds do at about 40% volume. There's the whole issue of impedance, as well as the fact that the iPod/Phones just don't have enough power to move the dual-drivers in the headphones (the RS2i's are especially quiet in this manner of use... their drivers are about 40% larger, I believe). The reduction in volume and the fact that the iPod or whatever has to be at 100% output DOES cause a reduction in sound quality. That is why so many people are happy to simply use the boxed-with earbuds.
2) Headphone Amplifiers function to not only increase the volume of the sound, they also will act as a crossover, equalizer, noise reducer, and more. I refuse to listen to ANY kind of compressed music format with decent headphones UNLESS I have a good amp, because it will "knock out" the "flatness" and missing parts inherent to a high-loss format. Since they are designed specifically for headphones, though, they tend to cost a lot less (tend to, key words) than a 7.1/9.1 home theater speaker amplifier, because the former is pushing double-digit wattage, while the latter has to be able to cope with (typically) 1000W+ and do it well. I have a McIntosh amplifier for my home theater system, and it cost about 15x as much as my favorite headphone amplifier.

One of the posters, following my initial post, I completely agree with: a headphone amplifier WILL make your music quality BETTER, because it will eliminate the "flat" mids (that ALL headphones will have if they're not driven with enough power!), the "mushy/bland/non-distinctive" Bass, and the either overly-sharp or overly-muted highs. With the bass, think of it like this: with a set of Grado SR225's, and no amplifier, your bass will sound like a car audio system that has no 6x9's and only one subwoofer and it's a 15" powered by 1000W one-way amplifier. However, with the same headphones and an amplifier, it will sound more like a car audio system that has 2 6x9's on the rear deck, 2 10" subwoofers, and 1 12" subwoofer; all powered by independent lines and whatnot (and up front you have 4 3-way component speaker sets).
The difference being that with the latter, you will have much "punchier" and distinctive bass that adds to the music, while the former gives you muddled and rumbly bass that is distracting and makes everyone want to beat your car with a sledgehammer.
Ever see/hear one of those d-bags rolling down the street with a "killer system" that is nothing other than a cheap-ass $40 head unit, $100 1200W Amp, and two single-coil 15" subwoofers...? Their trunk rattles itself practically off (in fact, having worked on cars for a long time... I have seen people with such systems actually cause their ENGINE mounts to unscrew themselves about 60% of the way! Not to mention all of the bodywork that was falling of, clips broken, screws undone, etc...).

Point being: You can either be the kid in the Civic who doesn't know *****, or you can be the guy in the BMW whose sound system CAN get loud, but sounds so darn good it just doesn't have to...


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*


I have the Grado HF-2 and I personally think they sound great out of my iPhone 4S and Sansa Clip Zip. While the HF-2 aren't particularly sensitive, their impedance is reasonably low and they operate at sufficient volume levels out of either device. Of course they require a higher on-device volume setting than my JH13 Pros do, but still the setting is nowhere near the max.

Additionally, while on-board sound can leave something to be desired a sufficient sound card like a Xonar Essence or Creative X-Fi Titanium HD should do the job just fine provided they meet volume level requirements.

I don't get how a headphone amplifier could conceivably "correct" the purported deficiencies of lossy formats. Differences outside of volume level are due to output impedance or distortion and poor circuit design (e.g. a tube).


----------



## trumpet-205

I do 70% movie and 30% gaming. What kind of headphone do you recommend for sub-$100 budget? I have Xonar D1 as my sound card.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> I have the Grado HF-2 and I personally think they sound great out of my iPhone 4S and Sansa Clip Zip. While the HF-2 aren't particularly sensitive, their impedance is reasonably low and they operate at sufficient volume levels out of either device. Of course they require a higher on-device volume setting than my JH13 Pros do, but still the setting is nowhere near the max.
> Additionally, while on-board sound can leave something to be desired a sufficient sound card like a Xonar Essence or Creative X-Fi Titanium HD should do the job just fine provided they meet volume level requirements.
> I don't get how a headphone amplifier could conceivably "correct" the purported deficiencies of lossy formats. Differences outside of volume level are due to output impedance or distortion and poor circuit design (e.g. a tube).


Everything I've said is assuming that when using headphones with, say, a computer, that you're already using a high-quality sound card... There would be no point to having $400 cans and onboard audio...

The amplifier works as a crossover/equalizer of sorts... Certain frequencies are easier to transmit than others, and an amplifier essentially makes sure they're all getting sent the same rate. That's an extreme simplification, but I'm at work right now so it's hard to type out much more...

I don't however disagree that for many people, all of this is overkill... but for real "audiophiles", it's just the tip of the iceberg... If you're happy with $50 Sony MDR-xxx cans, then no need to go spending more money... But if you want more, every little bit counts. FWIW, I thought spending $4k on a McIntosh amplifier for my home theater's 11.3ch setup was gonna be a waste but HOLY GOD it changed the sound completely... it now sounds REAL, not like "surround sound"... Headphones and speakers are different, but not THAT much so...


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Everything I've said is assuming that when using headphones with, say, a computer, that you're already using a high-quality sound card... There would be no point to having $400 cans and onboard audio...
> The amplifier works as a crossover/equalizer of sorts... Certain frequencies are easier to transmit than others, and an amplifier essentially makes sure they're all getting sent the same rate. That's an extreme simplification, but I'm at work right now so it's hard to type out much more...
> I don't however disagree that for many people, all of this is overkill... but for real "audiophiles", it's just the tip of the iceberg... If you're happy with $50 Sony MDR-xxx cans, then no need to go spending more money... But if you want more, every little bit counts. FWIW, I thought spending $4k on a McIntosh amplifier for my home theater's 11.3ch setup was gonna be a waste but HOLY GOD it changed the sound completely... it now sounds REAL, not like "surround sound"... Headphones and speakers are different, but not THAT much so...


That's not a simplified understanding of amplifiers.. that's just plain wrong. An amplifier is blatantly different from an equalizer (the term crossover shouldn't even apply here since we're talking about single-diaphragm-per-channel headphones, and not speakers or multiple-driver IEMs) and to use an amplifier as such is a dangerous practice against the integrity of the original signal. If you want an equalizer, you get an equalizer (be it software or hardware). An amplifier should not be employed for this role.

None of my headphones are quite $50, nor is my DAC/amplifier, nor my speakers. I believe that many of the non-headphone/speaker-related differences people "hear" are all in their head (differences between amps, differences between well-encoded compressed audio and lossless, differences between cables especially, et al). I also believe that these real "audiophiles" you speak of are just victims of charlatanry.

(Also, headphones and speakers are definitely worlds apart -- for one thing you have to deal with room acoustics in the latter case, which can often have as much of an impact on sound as the speakers themselves.)


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trumpet-205*
> 
> I do 70% movie and 30% gaming. What kind of headphone do you recommend for sub-$100 budget? I have Xonar D1 as my sound card.


Depends how much bass you want and what type of gaming you do. If you like a lot of bass and aren't really that hardcore of an FPS gamer the Ultrasone 580s are a good choice. If you want more sound stage for FPS gaming, good bass, but not as powerful as the Ultrasones the Samson SR850 is a good choice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Everything I've said is assuming that when using headphones with, say, a computer, that you're already using a high-quality sound card... There would be no point to having $400 cans and onboard audio...
> The amplifier works as a crossover/equalizer of sorts... Certain frequencies are easier to transmit than others, and an amplifier essentially makes sure they're all getting sent the same rate. That's an extreme simplification, but I'm at work right now so it's hard to type out much more...
> I don't however disagree that for many people, all of this is overkill... but for real "audiophiles", it's just the tip of the iceberg... If you're happy with $50 Sony MDR-xxx cans, then no need to go spending more money... But if you want more, every little bit counts. FWIW, I thought spending $4k on a McIntosh amplifier for my home theater's 11.3ch setup was gonna be a waste but HOLY GOD it changed the sound completely... it now sounds REAL, not like "surround sound"... Headphones and speakers are different, but not THAT much so...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not a simplified understanding of amplifiers.. that's just plain wrong. An amplifier is blatantly different from an equalizer (the term crossover shouldn't even apply here since we're talking about single-diaphragm-per-channel headphones, and not speakers or multiple-driver IEMs) and to use an amplifier as such is a dangerous practice against the integrity of the original signal. If you want an equalizer, you get an equalizer (be it software or hardware). An amplifier should not be employed for this role.
> 
> None of my headphones are quite $50, nor is my DAC/amplifier, nor my speakers. I believe that many of the non-headphone/speaker-related differences people "hear" are all in their head (differences between amps, differences between well-encoded compressed audio and lossless, differences between cables especially, et al). I also believe that these real "audiophiles" you speak of are just victims of charlatanry.
> 
> (Also, headphones and speakers are definitely worlds apart -- for one thing you have to deal with room acoustics in the latter case, which can often have as much of an impact on sound as the speakers themselves.)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he just didn't explain himself in the best of ways. From how I understood him, the amplifier acts like an equalizer in the fact that, depending on the headphone and it's needs, it will power the diaphragm and give it enough energy to move appropriately. This will result in more controlled bass, less recessed mids and sometimes less harsh highs. In effect, "equalizing" the sound of music/the headphones.

The amplifier doesn't "color" music and Solid State Amps won't degrade fidelity like a tube amp, but it will allow the headphones to perform as they should. Without an amplifer, headphones that require amplification won't be able to exercise their diaphragms appropriately and the sound will be "poorer" than they would be sufficiently amped. That's not to say that not using an amp MAKES them sound poorer, but rather using an amp MAKES them sound the way they should.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> This will result in more controlled bass, less recessed mids and sometimes less harsh highs. In effect, "equalizing" the sound of music/the headphones.
> The amplifier doesn't "color" music and Solid State Amps won't degrade fidelity like a tube amp, but it will allow the headphones to perform as they should. Without an amplifer, headphones that require amplification won't be able to exercise their diaphragms appropriately and the sound will be "poorer" than they would be sufficiently amped. That's not to say that not using an amp MAKES them sound poorer, but rather using an amp MAKES them sound the way they should.


Again, I don't agree here. It goes against the basic principles of sound quality. Unless the amplifier is introducing unwarranted distortion or altering the frequency response, these kinds of results are not possible.

Let me tell you the number one reason most people perceive the type of differences you mention (e.g. "controlled" bass, tamed highs, et alia). It's one mostly psychological fallacy with a dash of placebo.

It's *volume*. I can't fault audiophools too much for it -- volume-matching is quite a pain in the butt between two different devices without appropriate equipment and measuring tools. Nonetheless, virtually all comparisons that we read about are played by ear (so to speak) without matching the volume levels at the output, rendering the comparisons invalid and meaningless.

Barring volume mismatch, differences in perceived audio quality are completely attributable to the noise level, frequency response, distortion and in some cases the output impedance of the compared devices and how it interacts with the given load. With modern-day well-designed equipment (which can be had for as little as $100-150), the first three should be imperceptibly different to the human ear.


----------



## trumpet-205

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Depends how much bass you want and what type of gaming you do. If you like a lot of bass and aren't really that hardcore of an FPS gamer the Ultrasone 580s are a good choice. If you want more sound stage for FPS gaming, good bass, but not as powerful as the Ultrasones the Samson SR850 is a good choice.


Ultrasone 580 is out of my budget, and I am not a FPS gamer. So Samson SR850? Or is there any other suggestion?


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Depends how much bass you want and what type of gaming you do. If you like a lot of bass and aren't really that hardcore of an FPS gamer the Ultrasone 580s are a good choice. If you want more sound stage for FPS gaming, good bass, but not as powerful as the Ultrasones the Samson SR850 is a good choice.
> I'm pretty sure he just didn't explain himself in the best of ways. From how I understood him, the amplifier acts like an equalizer in the fact that, depending on the headphone and it's needs, it will power the diaphragm and give it enough energy to move appropriately. This will result in more controlled bass, less recessed mids and sometimes less harsh highs. In effect, "equalizing" the sound of music/the headphones.
> The amplifier doesn't "color" music and Solid State Amps won't degrade fidelity like a tube amp, but it will allow the headphones to perform as they should. Without an amplifer, headphones that require amplification won't be able to exercise their diaphragms appropriately and the sound will be "poorer" than they would be sufficiently amped. That's not to say that not using an amp MAKES them sound poorer, but rather using an amp MAKES them sound the way they should.


Yes, thank you! That is exactly what I was trying to say... It "ACTS LIKE" an equalizer, because it "equalizes" the way the (in Grado's case, TWO diaphragms) are able to respond to the input, making everything sound more "even". That's what I was getting at with the car analogy, but I guess it didn't work :/

Other Poster:
I agree that Home Theaters are different from headphones, and yes there certainly is much more to take into consideration, but I have done quite a bit with home theaters AND with headphones, so I was only using the former to make a point regarding the latter.

Furthermore, I can tell you from first hand experience that you can go out and buy a set of $4,500 Focal Component Speakers for your car, but if they're only running off of the factory head unit, they won't sound much different, if at all. Install a decent, mid-to-high end head-unit, and you'll notice a difference. Install the head unit AND an amplifier, and that's when they will really shine.
With PC's and Headphones, the sound card acts like the head unit, the amp acts like, well, the amplifier, and the headphones take the place of the Focal Components. Sure, there is a LOT MORE technical stuff below those layers, but if you already know that technical mumbo-jumbo, then you don't need to repeat it


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> This will result in more controlled bass, less recessed mids and sometimes less harsh highs. In effect, "equalizing" the sound of music/the headphones.
> The amplifier doesn't "color" music and Solid State Amps won't degrade fidelity like a tube amp, but it will allow the headphones to perform as they should. Without an amplifer, headphones that require amplification won't be able to exercise their diaphragms appropriately and the sound will be "poorer" than they would be sufficiently amped. That's not to say that not using an amp MAKES them sound poorer, but rather using an amp MAKES them sound the way they should.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I don't agree here. It goes against the basic principles of sound quality. Unless the amplifier is introducing unwarranted distortion or altering the frequency response, these kinds of results are not possible.
> 
> Let me tell you the number one reason most people perceive the type of differences you mention (e.g. "controlled" bass, tamed highs, et alia). It's one mostly psychological fallacy with a dash of placebo.
> 
> It's *volume*. I can't fault audiophools too much for it -- volume-matching is quite a pain in the butt between two different devices without appropriate equipment and measuring tools. Nonetheless, virtually all comparisons that we read about are played by ear (so to speak) without matching the volume levels at the output, rendering the comparisons invalid and meaningless.
> 
> Barring volume mismatch, differences in perceived audio quality are completely attributable to the noise level, frequency response, distortion and in some cases the output impedance of the compared devices and how it interacts with the given load. With modern-day well-designed equipment (which can be had for as little as $100-150), the first three should be imperceptibly different to the human ear.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with you at all. Listening to music at the SAME volume the differences are noticeable. So you're trying to tell me I'm actually listening to music louder and that's the difference? That's a load of crap. Besides the fact that there are tens of thousands of people that disagree with you, from personal experience, from reading hundreds of reviews from people that have more experience than myself with audio equipment and from hearing from friends that all have personal experience as well with audio equipment including amps, I can't pull myself to give you any credence.

There's a reason many snobby audiophiles spit on products like Fiio amplifiers. Fiio products mostly raise the volume of music as you purport that is all amplifiers should do. There's also a reason headphones like K701s need a stronger amplifier despite low budget amplifiers being able to make the K701s loud.

I'm not going to pretend I understand the science behind amplifiers and and audio because I don't. That's not where my experience and knowledge excels at all. I know enough to understand what people are talking about when they describe sound. I know how ohms play a role in a headphone, IEM or any other type of driver. I can't tell you how current and voltage work exactly. I can't tell you about the engineering and design that goes into an amplifier or DAC. I can't tell you about the circuitry design and how that effects the quality of audio. All I know is what I can hear. From my experience, from reading tons of reviews from others with MORE experience there's something to amplifiers other than just raising the volume. If that's ALL an amplifier did, it would be madness to ever spend more than 100 dollars on an amplifier.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I can't agree with you at all. Listening to music at the SAME volume the differences are noticeable. So you're trying to tell me I'm actually listening to music louder and that's the difference? That's a load of crap. Besides the fact that there are tens of thousands of people that disagree with you, from personal experience, from reading hundreds of reviews from people that have more experience than myself with audio equipment and from hearing from friends that all have personal experience as well with audio equipment including amps, I can't pull myself to give you any credence.
> There's a reason many snobby audiophiles spit on products like Fiio amplifiers. Fiio products mostly raise the volume of music as you purport that is all amplifiers should do. There's also a reason headphones like K701s need a stronger amplifier despite low budget amplifiers being able to make the K701s loud.


Yes, I'm telling you that you're listening to the music at a different volume. Unless you're measuring the output volume directly (rather than playing it by ear, as I've said) with precision to the same dB, it's all in your head. How do you know that you're listening to the music at the same volume? Matching the device dials to the same position won't tell you anything -- gain and output volume can be inherently different between the two devices. Software-based volume controls don't cut it either. And of course, ears are the _least_ reliable.

The thousands of people that you mention believe avidly in audiophoolery and snake oil in general, and there is no scientific evidence to back up their claims. There is no proof.

You trust your ears, I'll trust the books. Generally people who trust their ears waste a whole lot of money.

I've rotated through several dozen DACs and headphone amplifiers and I used to believe the same story that you do now. I then realized that I was being sold something, and that what the charlatans told me was untrue.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I can't agree with you at all. Listening to music at the SAME volume the differences are noticeable. So you're trying to tell me I'm actually listening to music louder and that's the difference? That's a load of crap. Besides the fact that there are tens of thousands of people that disagree with you, from personal experience, from reading hundreds of reviews from people that have more experience than myself with audio equipment and from hearing from friends that all have personal experience as well with audio equipment including amps, I can't pull myself to give you any credence.
> There's a reason many snobby audiophiles spit on products like Fiio amplifiers. Fiio products mostly raise the volume of music as you purport that is all amplifiers should do. There's also a reason headphones like K701s need a stronger amplifier despite low budget amplifiers being able to make the K701s loud.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm telling you that you're listening to the music at a different volume. Unless you're measuring the output volume directly (rather than playing it by ear, as I've said) with precision to the same dB, it's all in your head. How do you know that you're listening to the music at the same volume? Matching the device dials to the same position won't tell you anything -- gain and output volume can be inherently different between the two devices. Software-based volume controls don't cut it either. And of course, ears are the _least_ reliable.
> 
> The thousands of people that you mention believe avidly in audiophoolery and snake oil in general, and there is no scientific evidence to back up their claims. There is no proof.
> 
> You trust your ears, I'll trust the books. Generally people who trust their ears waste a whole lot of money.
> 
> I've rotated through several dozen DACs and headphone amplifiers and I used to believe the same story that you do now. I then realized that I was being sold something, and that what the charlatans told me was untrue.
Click to expand...

In conclusion 30 dollar amp that raises volume is good enough for all headphones. Go buy fiio e5s everyone. The end.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> In conclusion 30 dollar amp that raises volume is good enough for all headphones. Go buy fiio e5s everyone. The end.


I'm not confident that the E5 can drive all headphones to sufficient volume levels, and I'm not confident as to its ability to reproduce the signal faithfully without a good idea of its frequency response and noise levels. Fiio lists 10Hz-100KHz but that's silly and the lack of a dB tolerance is worrisome. The presence of a bass boost switch is condemning enough.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> In conclusion 30 dollar amp that raises volume is good enough for all headphones. Go buy fiio e5s everyone. The end.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not confident that the E5 can drive all headphones to sufficient volume levels, and I'm not confident as to its ability to reproduce the signal faithfully without a good idea of its frequency response and noise levels. Fiio lists 10Hz-100KHz but that's silly and the lack of a dB tolerance is worrisome. The presence of a bass boost switch is condemning enough.
Click to expand...

But if it raises volume to a tolerable level it's good according to you.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> But if it raises volume to a tolerable level it's good according to you.


*If* it measures faithfully with regards to frequency response, distortion, noise and there's no problem with output impedance against the load then yes, absolutely.

It's not just me; sound science agrees.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> But if it raises volume to a tolerable level it's good according to you.
> 
> 
> 
> *If* it measures faithfully with regards to frequency response, distortion, noise and there's no impedance issues against the load then yes, absolutely.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're saying "If it's a perfect item, then it should be fine."

Let's get real here. In your opinion, what would someone need to run any headphone out there? What's the price range? What's the exact model? You seem to have already discovered it.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> *If* it measures faithfully with regards to frequency response, distortion, noise and there's no problem with output impedance against the load then yes, absolutely.
> It's not just me; sound science agrees.


How is that different from what I was saying to start with?

BTW: I apologize, everyone... I know I am a "forum newbie", and the last thing I wanted to do was start an argument with my first post! Please take this apology as sincere, for it is.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It sounds like you're saying "If it's a perfect item, then it should be fine."
> Let's get real here. In your opinion, what would someone need to run any headphone out there? What's the price range? What's the exact model? You seem to have already discovered it.


No, it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to have, again:

1. A low noise floor
2. Unbiased frequency response from 20Hz-20KHz
3. Low distortion
4. Imperceptible time-based errors (mostly irrelevant nowadays)

These points are not terribly expensive to achieve with reasonable design. Our ears simply don't have the sensitivity to detect fraction percentage points of difference in harmonic or intermodulation distortion or the infinitesimal presence of modern-day jitter. Moreover, ridiculous amounts of dynamic range (e.g. 120dB+ just as an example) is about as silly as extended frequency response beyond 20KHz. It just can't be perceived. "Perfect" to the human ear isn't hard.

If I were still in the market, a solid sound card or professionally-oriented sound interface could probably get the job done for $100-150.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It sounds like you're saying "If it's a perfect item, then it should be fine."
> Let's get real here. In your opinion, what would someone need to run any headphone out there? What's the price range? What's the exact model? You seem to have already discovered it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to have, again:
> 
> 1. A low noise floor
> 2. Unbiased frequency response from 20Hz-20KHz
> 3. Low distortion
> 4. Imperceptible time-based errors (mostly irrelevant nowadays)
> 
> These points are not terribly expensive to achieve with reasonable design. Our ears simply don't have the sensitivity to detect fraction percentage points of difference in harmonic or intermodulation distortion or the infinitesimal presence of modern-day jitter. Moreover, ridiculous amounts of dynamic range (e.g. 120dB+ just as an example) is about as silly as extended frequency response beyond 20KHz. It just can't be perceived. "Perfect" to the human ear isn't hard.
> 
> If I were still in the market, a solid sound card or professionally-oriented sound interface could probably get the job done for $100-150.
Click to expand...

You're skirting the issue. What headphone amplifier out there are you speaking of? We all know we need a headphone amp that meets all those specifications. What amp is that, according to you with your vast experience and collective knowledge who is untainted by audiophoolery.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You're skirting the issue. What headphone amplifier out there are you speaking of? We all know we need a headphone amp that meets all those specifications. What amp is that, according to you with your vast experience and collective knowledge who is untainted by audiophoolery.


Like I said, I don't know what comprises the market presently. There's probably plenty given the relative ease at which a faithful circuit can be designed compared to decades ago.

But I'll mention some experience from when I was in the market (bear with me if it's an outdated example): the Creative E-MU 0404 USB sounds pretty much the same as the Benchmark DAC1.

Of course, this also presents the scientifically-backed notion that DACs sound the same too (as far as our ears are concerned).


----------



## Simca

The 0404 isn't powerful enough to power higher end headphones that require more power. This is a well known fact.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The 0404 isn't powerful enough to power higher end headphones that require more power. This is a well known fact.


Maybe. I'm not aware of any valid published studies or tests affirming your "fact," just a few interspersed personal anecdotes.

Regardless, when the headphones powered by the DAC1 and the 0404 USB were driven to the same output levels, they sounded the same.

What low-sensitivity high-impedance headphone are you looking to drive, anyway? The question isn't valid if your response is "can't drive it" and you don't mention what "it" is.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The 0404 isn't powerful enough to power higher end headphones that require more power. This is a well known fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe. I'm not aware of any valid published studies or tests affirming your "fact," just a few interspersed personal anecdotes.
> 
> Regardless, when the headphones powered by the DAC1 and the 0404 USB were driven to the same output levels, they sounded the same.
Click to expand...

That's fine and dandy if the headphones didn't need a lot of power, but if the headphones are 600 ohms and need a powerful amp, the DAC1 is a better amp than the 0404.

If you're basing audio enjoyment off of tests and studies rather than listening to what sounds best, you're doing it wrong.

That's why tube amps are preferred by many people despite audio fidelity degradation.

You should listen to music in whatever way sounds best to you.

If that means using the EQ or a tube amp or any other method that strides away from audio fidelity and that tests tell us is wrong, then I'm all for it.

Rather than rely on "tests and studies" you should rely on your ear to tell you whether your headphones are being driven properly.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's fine and dandy if the headphones didn't need a lot of power, but if the headphones are 600 ohms and need a powerful amp, the DAC1 is a better amp than the 0404.
> If you're basing audio enjoyment off of tests and studies rather than listening to what sounds best, you're doing it wrong.
> That's why tube amps are preferred by many people despite audio fidelity degradation.
> You should listen to music in whatever way sounds best to you.
> If that means using the EQ or a tube amp or any other method that strides away from audio fidelity and that tests tell us is wrong, then I'm all for it.
> Rather than rely on "tests and studies" you should rely on your ear to tell you whether your headphones are being driven properly.


Once again, if the headphone load is driven to the same output level the 0404 USB and DAC1 sound the same. Even if it's a 600 Ohm headphone, if you can squeeze the same output level from both amps you'll hear the same stuff.

I also don't agree. Ears are unreliable and audio memory is notoriously gossamer and faulty.

I'll also argue that those that are playing it by ear are doing it wrong. They're the kind of people spending thousands on audio cables (and USB cables) and hundreds on the isolation scams. They're dumb and still not happy. They hear differences that don't exist.

I'm very content with my system but I realize I could have gotten away with it for much less money. People who play it by science and do their homework probably end up spending much less money and probably still end up happy.


----------



## Simca

iF a test tells you apple ear buds are the best, I assume that's what you would buy? I'd rather buy an inferior product that sounded awesome to me, rather than something that sounded bland, but superior on paper.

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> iF a test tells you apple ear buds are the best, I assume that's what you would buy? I'd rather buy an inferior product that sounded awesome to me, rather than something that sounded bland, but superior on paper.
> Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk


That's a strawman argument.

But actually, headphones (or speakers) are the only components of the chain that will make the difference. They are the only components that are rationally open to preference.

For one thing, no headphone or speaker measures the same. There are peaks and troughs in the frequency response that are audible to our ears and "voice" the transducer. Moreover, interactions of the sound wave in the room (in the case of headphones, the driver relative to your ears) that can influence perception.

Science argues that DACs and amplifiers sound the same and that transducers sound different. Two different implementations of the same transducer will even measure differently. Since the differences are not only measurable but also audible, the intuition of a scientific ranking of headphone superiority (that you suggest) is not really valid.

The reason that the other components in the chain (DAC, amp) sound pretty much the same is because of that highly-accessible threshold of quality where they measure the same as far as we can hear, and to a lesser extent the fact that the sound is still a signal and hasn't been output as a soundwave yet.

This makes decision-making simple and intuitive. Buy the DAC/amps that achieve the _minimum quality threshold_ (many options here, given how cheap and accessible the threshold is nowadays) and meet volume level requirements, and buy the headphones/speakers you _like_. The rest of any changes to the sound you might want to make can be achieved through equalization (by means of hardware or software). The notion of equalization or flavoring by means of different DACs/amps is fallacious from the perspective of fidelity and utterly ridiculous.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Once again, if the headphone load is driven to the same output level the 0404 USB and DAC1 sound the same. Even if it's a 600 Ohm headphone, if you can squeeze the same output level from both amps you'll hear the same stuff.
> I also don't agree. Ears are unreliable and audio memory is notoriously gossamer and faulty.
> I'll also argue that those that are playing it by ear are doing it wrong. They're the kind of people spending thousands on audio cables (and USB cables) and hundreds on the isolation scams. They're dumb and still not happy. They hear differences that don't exist.
> I'm very content with my system but I realize I could have gotten away with it for much less money. People who play it by science and do their homework probably end up spending much less money and probably still end up happy.


First of all, that is not true. Take the same, say, Grado PS1000 (normal impedance is 32ohms, cost is $1000+) headphones, and hook them up to both a digital amplifier and a tube amplifier, both connected to the same source (say, a DVD-Audio Disc of Bach or Beethoven or Metallica). There is going to be a very noticeable difference between the two amps, despite the fact that they will put out the SAME power and the SAME volume; the tube amp will have a "warmer" sound, while the digital amp will simply reproduce the original source's sound as identically as possible (although both will, due to the nature of overcoming such high-impedance headphones) result in a more even range (lows/mids/highs will all sound like they should). This is simply one way that ONE PAIR OF HEADPHONES can be altered by TWO DIFFERENT (BUT EQUAL) AMPLIFIERS.
I also will agree that ears are unreliable, and I think reviewing headphones and presenting it as anything other than an "opinion piece" or what-not is a crock, and I only read such reviews to get a VERY general idea of what the headphones ARE and ARE NOT capable of, as well as their specs. Some sites take it further and will actually, using audio measurement equipment, give actual numbers and pretty-looking charts/graphs that tell you where the currently-reviewed 'phones rank against other, similar products. Even then, audio measurement equipment DOES NOT mimic the human ear, or how our brains interpret sound, so I still take all that information with about a whole dash of salt...plus a lime and a tequila shot








The human ear "hears" the same way the human eye "sees": both organs "take in" RAW information that is essentially meaningless, and then our BRAINS put that sensory information into something comprehensible. So to say that "playing it by ear" is wrong, I can't disagree more... I have NEVER bought any headphones, speakers, subwoofers, amplifiers, receivers, equalizers, etc., without listening to them in a REAL LIFE scenario, which is why I LOVE my local high-end audio store... They are more than happy to let me come in and chill for five-six hours listening to their newest speakers while watching 2-4 films and/or listening to multiple albums in order to get a "feel" for the sound. (For the record, I always use the THX-Certified DVD's of: Terminator 2, Star Wars Episode V, The Fifth Element: Ultimate Edition (Superbit), The Sound of Music, Aliens, etc. The Music I always use are the following albums: Rush: 2012, Nine Inch Nails: The Downward Spiral, OK GO: Oh No, Metallica: ...and Justice for All, Sufjan Stevens: Illinois, and always Sigur Ros: Agaetis Byrjun and Takk...). I like to get a good range, and I think my current line-up allows for that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> That's a strawman argument.
> But actually, headphones (or speakers) are the only components of the chain that will make the difference. They are the only components that are rationally open to preference.
> For one thing, no headphone or speaker measures the same. There are peaks and troughs in the frequency response that are audible to our ears and "voice" the transducer. Moreover, interactions of the sound wave in the room (in the case of headphones, the driver relative to your ears) that can influence perception.
> Science argues that DACs and amplifiers sound the same and that transducers sound different. Two different implementations of the same transducer will even measure differently. Since the differences are not only measurable but also audible, the intuition of a scientific ranking of headphone superiority (that you suggest) is not really valid.
> The reason that the other components in the chain (DAC, amp) sound pretty much the same is because of that highly-accessible threshold of quality where they measure the same as far as we can hear, and to a lesser extent the fact that the sound is still a signal and hasn't been output as a soundwave yet.
> This makes decision-making simple and intuitive. Buy the DAC/amps that achieve the _minimum quality threshold_ (many options here, given how cheap and accessible the threshold is nowadays) and meet volume level requirements, and buy the headphones/speakers you _like_. The rest of any changes to the sound you might want to make can be achieved through equalization (by means of hardware or software). The notion of equalization or flavoring by means of different DACs/amps is fallacious from the perspective of fidelity and utterly ridiculous.


I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong... There is FAR MORE to the final output's sound quality than simply the headphones or the speakers... As I mentioned before, I have been upgrading my home theater system (receiver, amplifier, speakers, television, etc). I'm mixing and matching speakers, but there is one set (7.2) that I do have that is all from the same brand/model/lineup: Polk RTI-series Speakers (RTI9 FR/FL Towers, RTI A5 Surround-L/R and Side R/L, CSi A6 Center, and one PSW505 12" Powered Sub and one PSW405 10" Powered Sub), which I have had hooked up to both my old receiver (Onkyo TX-NR809 7.2ch THX-certified), as well as to my new receiver (Denon AVR4810CI 9/11.3ch "THX-Ultra Certified").
THERE WAS NO COMPARISON! The new receiver, replacing the Onkyo which IS NOT OLD to begin with, completely changed the quality of sound THROUGH THE SAME SPEAKERS! Hooked up to the Definitive Technology Mythos2 Speakers, it's about 100x better than I would have ever even imagined...
Oh, and I use McIntosh Amplifiers, too... They make things sound better, at the same volume (db output)....


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> First of all, that is not true. Take the same, say, Grado PS1000 (normal impedance is 32ohms, cost is $1000+) headphones, and hook them up to both a digital amplifier and a tube amplifier, both connected to the same source (say, a DVD-Audio Disc of Bach or Beethoven or Metallica). There is going to be a very noticeable difference between the two amps, despite the fact that they will put out the SAME power and the SAME volume; the tube amp will have a "warmer" sound, while the digital amp will simply reproduce the original source's sound as identically as possible (although both will, due to the nature of overcoming such high-impedance headphones) result in a more even range (lows/mids/highs will all sound like they should). This is simply one way that ONE PAIR OF HEADPHONES can be altered by TWO DIFFERENT (BUT EQUAL) AMPLIFIERS.
> I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong... There is FAR MORE to the final output's sound quality than simply the headphones or the speakers... As I mentioned before, I have been upgrading my home theater system (receiver, amplifier, speakers, television, etc). I'm mixing and matching speakers, but there is one set (7.2) that I do have that is all from the same brand/model/lineup: Polk RTI-series Speakers (RTI9 FR/FL Towers, RTI A5 Surround-L/R and Side R/L, CSi A6 Center, and one PSW505 12" Powered Sub and one PSW405 10" Powered Sub), which I have had hooked up to both my old receiver (Onkyo TX-NR809 7.2ch THX-certified), as well as to my new receiver (Denon AVR4810CI 9/11.3ch "THX-Ultra Certified").


It *is true* if you consider the framed context; you are taking my statement out of context. The reason the tube amp sounds different is because it is introducing audible distortion. The signal is completely explained in terms of (1) noise, (2) distortion (harmonic and intermodulation), (3) frequency response and (4) time-based errors.

And no, my "opinions" are backed by extensive scientific evidence. There is no valid published study that demonstrates the differences between amplifiers or DACs (whereas there is much evidence to be found that speakers and transducers sound different). That is an outlandish claim by the audiophile community that has yet to be backed up by anything substantive and scientifically sound.

Once again, the differences you hear are due to one of the pieces of equipment being (1) insufficient to deal with the loudspeaker load (negative feedback, not enough current capability, not enough voltage capability) or (2) exhibiting an unfaithful design with audible distortion/noise/frequency response biases/time-based errors or (3) being faulty/broken.

Moreover, modern-day equalization features like Audyssey also render comparisons invalid since the signal is being deliberately altered.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> It *is true* if you consider the framed context; you are taking my statement out of context. The reason the tube amp sounds different is because it is introducing audible distortion. The signal is completely explained in terms of (1) noise, (2) distortion (harmonic and intermodulation), (3) frequency response and (4) time-based errors.
> And no, my "opinions" are backed by extensive scientific evidence. There is no valid published study that demonstrates the differences between amplifiers or DACs (whereas there is much evidence to be found that speakers and transducers sound different). That is an outlandish claim by the audiophile community that has yet to be backed up by anything substantive and scientifically sound.
> Once again, the differences you hear are due to one of the pieces of equipment being (1) insufficient to deal with the loudspeaker load (negative feedback, not enough current capability, not enough voltage capability) or (2) exhibiting an unfaithful design with audible distortion/noise/frequency response biases/time-based errors or (3) being faulty/broken.
> Moreover, modern-day equalization features like Audyssey also render comparisons invalid since the signal is being deliberately altered.


For what it's worth, I compared the speakers without any digital enhancements, i.e. Audyssey, to get a sense of the difference between the two Receivers. The McIntosh amplifier was NOT changed in any way, and I use the exact same speaker wire, speaker placement, line-out voltage, etc. The system can run at a maximum of ~2200W, but I don't push near that much (especially not now, with the sound damper panels down from the walls; oh yeah, home theater has baffle-type sound insulation panels placed where needed, as well as a false-wall located 2ft out from the concrete foundation along with an extra 14" of space between the first floor and basement ceiling, as the original owners had a full-on HT with a 120" projector and screen as well as built-in speakers/mounts; I use the false-wall(s) to make wiring invisible very easily, as well as to put "invisible" sound insulation around the area and between floors - I have enough between the basement and first floor that the sound insulation has an R-value of R-35).
I kept everything as similar as possible with the exception of the Receiver. Yes, the new receiver puts out slightly more power per channel, but it also supports 4 more main channels and one extra subwoofer (11.3 vs 7.2) so it's not THAT much different, and it's going from the receiver the McIntosh amp anyway before it hits the speakers, so it shouldn't make a difference.
Also, while I know that it may not mean as much as it used to, the new receiver (the Denon) is "THX-Ultra" certified, which means it meets criteria above-and-beyond the already-very-strict "THX" certification. When paired with lossless audio, as well as the high quality speakers, I can literally hear the guitar player's pick against the strings, or the vocalist tapping his feet to keep rhythm. It adds an entire "new dimension" to the sound that wasn't there before, and it is NOT due to any digital "enhancements" (I tend to keep all that stuff off anyway, same with the "TruMotion"-type stuff on my 55" LG LED-LCD TV, because it is distracting... The only one I use is the "Clear Voice" or "True Voice", as it does send more of the "human voice frequencies" to the main speakers, while the Front High and Front Wide speakers take care of all/most of the ambient noise).
Going from a 7.1/7.2 surround-sound setup to a 9.2 is a significant leap in quality, but going from 7.2 to 11.3 is unbelievable. The combination of (rather than one-or-the-other) Front "Wide" L/R and Front "High" L/R in addition to a high-quality center speaker and using high-quality towers all-around (rather than big, 7-dome towers for front l/r and bookshelf speakers for surround) makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I also noticed a difference in my car, a heavily-modified '00 BMW 328Ci. When I initially upgraded the sound system, it was from the stock 3-Series Harmon Kardon system (14 speakers + 2 subwoofers) to the Bavarian SoundWerks (BSW) Stage 1 kit, which replaces all of the factory speakers with their upgraded units, designed specifically to work with the factory headunit and amplifier; silk-dome tweeters and Kevlar-domed mids and woofers replaced the factory "paper-like" units. Being driven off of the same equipment, sound quality/fidelity was significantly enhanced. It was absolutely worth the money.
When I upgraded to their low-profile dual 10" subwoofers and ultralight enclosure, same thing: enhanced bass response that was sharper without the "boom-iness" typically associated with aftermarket car audio subs. Again, driven off of the factory HK amplifier.
When I upgraded my headunit, I decided to go with the Pioneer AVIC line, a double-din 7" touchscreen headunit (4x22rms), and while I had to do some custom wiring and relocate the Climate Controls to a lower area on the console, there was again a noticeable increase in sound fidelity (better input = better output).
Following that, I decided that I wanted the best possible sound (it's like an addiction... same with the countless other modifications I have made, from performance to appearance, etc). Knowing that I would be upgrading the speakers (and installing the BSW kit in my daily driver 325i), so I went ahead and installed a few Focal amplifiers (2 4x85W, 1 2x150W, 1 2x400W), as I got them at an unbelievable price, and they are known for being very good quality (also very lightweight; important in a car that is regularly autocrossed and tracked). After rewiring and installing the amplifier, along with the other necessary equipment, I was literally blown away by the sound... The amplifiers made as much of an improvement as did going from the Harmon Kardon speakers to the BSW speakers/subs.
Currently, I have a mix of a Pioneer AVIC head unit, JL/Focal amplifiers, and JL/Focal speakers/subwoofers (along with equalizer, crossovers, etc, etc). There is simply no comparison anymore, and the car sounds better than ANY stock sound system, from a Civic to a Maybach.

The same has held true with headphones... My Grado's sound SO MUCH better with a headphone amp, when using the same exact equipment/settings, than they do without. The headphone amps have even made my cheaper headphones (say, the Sony MDR-V900HD Studio Monitor's sitting next to my computer that I got on sale for $85; granted, they around ~$200-250 regularly... even my Sony MDR-V150HD's work for this comparison) sound like expensive cans.
They no longer sound "muffled" or overly-"bassed" or overly-"high", but rather they sound JUST RIGHT. This is with an HT Omega Claro Halo XT Sound Card.

Audio and audio gear is very much a person opinion when it comes to "quality of sound", as some (annoying as *****) kids like when their Civic has a stock system except for a $50 Head Unit, a 2x500W amplifier, and 2 12" or 15" subwoofers in the trunk that are so loud and obnoxious the trunk itself rattles so hard you'd think it was trying to escape. At the same time, people are willing to drop six-figures on the top-of-the-line Martin Logan or whatever boutique-brand speakers (six figures for TWO towers, that is) because it sounds better to them (or it's a status symbol).

For what it's worth, and maybe it's not worth much or anything at all, but....
In 2005, I decided I wanted a pair of nice headphones... I did some research, talked to some people on a few Forums as well as a few friends, and went to a local high-end/"boutique" audio store with the intent of buying a pair of Senheiser headphones for around ~$80 (the exact model not decided). After listening to a number of Senheiser's, priced from $35-140, I saw the Grado's up on the wall. I asked what they were, as their "old school" look was very attractive and unique, and I'd never seen headphones with wood furniture! The guy simply smiled, and said "Those are Grado headphones... Why don't you give 'em a try?". So I did. The album that the owner had been using to demonstrate the prior headphones for me was a mix of everything from Beethoven to Nirvana, a wide range of music genres, and it was through a high end receiver (headphones plugged directly in). *By the way, the guy spent a good 2-3 hours helping me out; and this is why I support local businesses and didn't just order something off of Amazon.
I listened to the entire 16 tracks, and couldn't wipe the smile off of my face. They sounded SO MUCH BETTER than anything I'd tried, and I ended up walking out of there with a pair of Grado SR225's (the originals, with Wooden cups) for $199.95+tax, with not a single bit of regret that I'd more than doubled my budget; in fact, I was ecstatic!

I know that the price range is different between the two, but I will say that it does go to show that audio perception and appreciation is HIGHLY individual; but there is still a great about of difference between various audio products... One amp does not equal another! Stuff like Monster Cables are a joke, and made for suckers... But that is NOT the same for headphone amplifiers, which encompass an already educated and niche market.

Again, everyone, I am very sorry and I feel very bad that my first posts have started an argument here :/ I hope, everyone, that you won't hold it against me. I came here to continue learning and to hopefully give back, and that is what I intend to do.

Sincerely,
nleksan


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> For what it's worth, I compared the speakers without any digital enhancements, i.e. Audyssey, to get a sense of the difference between the two Receivers. [ . . . ] This is with an HT Omega Claro Halo XT Sound Card.
> I know that the price range is different between the two, but I will say that it does go to show that audio perception and appreciation is HIGHLY individual; but there is still a great about of difference between various audio products... One amp does not equal another! Stuff like Monster Cables are a joke, and made for suckers... But that is NOT the same for headphone amplifiers, which encompass an already educated and niche market.
> 
> Again, everyone, I am very sorry and I feel very bad that my first posts have started an argument here :/ I hope, everyone, that you won't hold it against me. I came here to continue learning and to hopefully give back, and that is what I intend to do.
> Sincerely,
> nleksan


All of the tests you've described don't properly follow the scientific method and they do not constitute evidence. You are offering merely anecdote. Here's an article that explains why your "testing" isn't really valid testing: http://www.digido.com/level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system.html (You can't trust your ears to match levels)

Also your blurb about THX demonstrates that you are quite susceptible to marketing.

Once again, there's no scientific proof of demonstrable difference between items in the chain outside of the transducers in the modern day. There is a wealth of proof however demonstrating that modern DACs and amps sound the same.

Your preference of the Grados are rational since transducers do measure differently and these measurements are audible.

Also, don't feel bad: you're with the majority here that subscribe to the audiophile propaganda.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Depends on the testing methodology as stated. For example, even though ABX tests are valid, the way it's conducted by most people makes their results invalid.

For example, any change of positioning of the head closer towards one speaker over another affects the HRTF and thus frequency response of what you are hearing. Same applies to the positioning of the headphone on the head or the insertion depth of the in-ear. All these are scitifically backed and easy to find for me. Not to mention dynamic range of the track. I'm not talking dynamic range of the medium it's on, but the track's dynamic range. Both entirely different things.

Output impedance in headphone outs are *still* a major problem in devices these days. This is due to a number of reasons, including 'pre-iPod / stuck in the 1980s' thinking that some electrical engineers still have at some major companies.

The difference in headphones is most obvious via frequency response graphs, but also other things such as impedance matching and HRTF factors.

Honestly don't underrate HRTF factors, particularly in headphones, where it affects the sound significantly, more so than speakers tbh.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Also give a brief but good read of this:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/03/benchmark-dac1-pre.html

Some DACs are actually deliberately designed different (to appease that crowd).

I would argue that there is some contention between 'pursuit of realism' vs. 'pursuit of lowest distortion'.

Why?

Because all speakers, including top-end studio monitors used in the biggest name studios around the world, introduce harmonic distortion in the process. As headphone tend to have lower harmonic distortion than speakers, this can make a lot of headphones 'sound cold' as of course harmonic distortion introduces 'warmth'.

I don't visit Head-fi much anymore tbh. I only visit it to keep my knowledge up on the latest headphone and earphone out / discovered by the Western market, and |joker|'s and ClieOS's reviews.

In sound, you cannot just look at the electrical engineering side of it, as sound is far more than that in the science world


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Depends on the testing methodology as stated. For example, even though ABX tests are valid, the way it's conducted by most people makes their results invalid.
> For example, any change of positioning of the head closer towards one speaker over another affects the HRTF and thus frequency response of what you are hearing. Same applies to the positioning of the headphone on the head or the insertion depth of the in-ear. All these are scitifically backed and easy to find for me. Not to mention dynamic range of the track. I'm not talking dynamic range of the medium it's on, but the track's dynamic range. Both entirely different things.
> Output impedance in headphone outs are *still* a major problem in devices these days. This is due to a number of reasons, including 'pre-iPod / stuck in the 1980s' thinking that some electrical engineers still have at some major companies.
> The difference in headphones is most obvious via frequency response graphs, but also other things such as impedance matching and HRTF factors.
> Honestly don't underrate HRTF factors, particularly in headphones, where it affects the sound significantly, more so than speakers tbh.


Not sure what this is in response to.. I'm not arguing that headphones/speakers sound the same (they don't, and you're correct), I'm arguing that modern amplifiers and sources largely sound the same provided they surpass a relatively easily-accessible threshold.


----------



## chinesekiwi

but the thing is you are ignoring a couple of things:

A lot of amps and sources are deliberately designed different and thus would sound different. Not to mention that the implementation of the source / amp extends to the output impedance of the headphone out for example.

See here:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Not to mention anything with tubes introduces audible harmonic distortion.
See my post about the pursuit of realism vs. pursuit of lower distortion above.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> but the thing is you are ignoring a couple of things:
> A lot of amps and sources are deliberately designed different and thus would sound different. Not to mention that the implementation of the source / amp extends to the output impedance of the headphone out for example.
> See here:
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html
> Not to mention anything with tubes introduces audible harmonic distortion.
> See my post about the pursuit of realism vs. pursuit of lower distortion above.


The first sentence is only insofar as certain amps and sources simply aren't designed well (e.g. tubes, audiophile tomfoolery, bass boosts and whatnot). The audible differences are nonetheless measurable -- we not only audibly hear the distortion introduced by tubes but we can also measure them using equipment.

I am not actually ignoring those things. If you look at my posts in this thread as an aggregate rather than just a couple of them you'll see the whole context.

I recommend taking a look at "Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics
are Acoustically Transparent" by David Rich and Peter Aczel, 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053. It's a glimpse at how no-nonsense designs have reached affordable levels of sufficiency.. and this was over a decade ago!


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> The first sentence is only insofar as certain amps and sources simply aren't designed well (e.g. tubes, audiophile tomfoolery, bass boosts and whatnot). The audible differences are nonetheless measurable -- we not only audibly hear the distortion introduced by tubes but we can also measure them using equipment.
> I am not actually ignoring those things. If you look at my posts in this thread as an aggregate rather than just a couple of them you'll see the whole context.
> I recommend taking a look at "Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics
> are Acoustically Transparent" by David Rich and Peter Aczel, 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053. It's a glimpse at how no-nonsense designs have reached affordable levels of sufficiency.. and this was over a decade ago!


I can't seem to edit this (Chrome or new OCN? I wonder) so I'll add in that yes, output impedance can be a symptom of bad design (as demonstrated by the FR changes you linked) and your reference to 80's design is on-point.


----------



## chinesekiwi

"Controlled listening tests have consistently shown that electrical components will be audibly indistinguishable if the have: (1) flat frequency response, (2) noise and distortion levels below audible thresholds, (3) high input impedance and low output impedance [D. Clark 1982]"

3) is the big issue today and this differs vastly among devices.

That's not even factoring in other psychoacoustic factors and the computer science side of things either (e.g. software volume control implementation).


----------



## Riou

Is spending thousands of dollars on headphone amps a waste of money considering they output less power than amps for loud speakers? Is the pursuit of audiophilia a never ending rabbit hole?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> Is spending thousands of dollars on headphone amps a waste of money considering they output less power than amps for loud speakers?


Headphone amps and speaker amps require different things and thus are designed differently but to sum up: Yes, as long as the amp provides enough power to sufficiently properly power the output (speakers, headphones etc..).

Different headphones and speakers require different amounts of power based on design however, so just because one headphone is being powered properly (such as a dynamic, 32-ohm headphone with high sensitivity) doesn't mean the amp would provide enough power for another differently designed headphone (e.g. planar driver headphone with high impedance and low sensitivity). Also a headphone amp's power can be too much for the output at times, which results in audible hissing.

The reason that the AKG K701 is so hard to drive despite being only 25ohm is because of it's low sensitivity.

Everything that's been discovered in sound has been discovered really since the early 90s. Implementing and refining those findings is another kettle of fish. the push is really now towards better efficiency in smaller, cheaper to make for the same quality, more power efficient etc.. devices.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> "Controlled listening tests have consistently shown that electrical components will be audibly indistinguishable if the have: (1) flat frequency response, (2) noise and distortion levels below audible thresholds, (3) high input impedance and low output impedance [D. Clark 1982]"
> 3) is the big issue today and this differs vastly among devices.


I'm uncertain if you're supplementing my arguments or providing a counterpoint (or both), but that's partly true. I don't think it's a "big issue" -- I think it does differ vastly among offerings.

High-output impedance culprits include tube amplifiers, a large variety of portable devices and a disgusting proportion of "high-end" audio scams. In fact what these multi-thousand-dollar pieces of equipment will do is deliberately alter the output impedance in order to alter the frequency response (and mistakenly some audiophiles will believe this kind of equipment to be superior).

Capacitance liberties aren't limited to archaic designs that you suggest, but they're widely exploited to sell "audiophile" designs that are flawed from electrical audio principles.

It's not hard to find an affordable design with a suitably low output impedance, again, because it isn't terribly expensive. To supplement your point:
Quote:


> "Given the confusing trends and frequent irrationalities of the consumer audio market, how is a designer to respond when assigned the task of designing consumer audio components? Three approaches can be taken by the professional engineer: (1) *Modify the frequency response of a product, or add distortion to the product, so that it will have a different sound characteristic and thus achieve a competitive advantage*; (2) ignore any considerations of sonic issues and design to achieve a design with flat response, low distortion, low noise, high input impedance, and low output impedance; (3) design the circuit so that it is judged to be transparent under controlled listening tests, and let the sales and marketing department justify that the design is superior."


Many "high-end" audio companies will do that. Again, I've mentioned this somewhere.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I'm more 'on-the-fence' - i.e. countering and supplementing when needed.

But the entire point is that the argument that whether devices sound different or not. The answer is yes. Should they theoretically sound different past a certain price point? No, but because of market segmentation and ignorance, both from consumers and some electrical engineers, they do.

Two things drastically changed the 'sound landscape' that some consumers and electrical engineers designing audio devices still haven't adjusted to:

the introduction of the CD redbook format and the popularisation of the iPod (and thus portable audio).


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> But the entire point is that the argument that whether devices sound different or not. The answer is yes. Should they theoretically sound different past a certain price point?


Or past a certain level of quality.

"Audiophiles" can and do waste their money on expensive audiophile designs, but they're deluded if they think they're buying "better" sound. They're buying distortion and altered frequency response, which is truly a shame once you consider the "pursuit of fidelity" view. It harks back to the "pursuit of realism" concept that you brought up earlier -- a pursuit of futility.

I suppose my definition of "good" is something that's well-designed and no-nonsense. No capacitance issues, no tubes, inaudible distortion levels and measurements that are good enough to be better than what I can hear. It's probably cheaper than much of the stuff that does put that garbage into the signal, anyway.


----------



## chinesekiwi

but however the pursuit of realism can be a legit thing if it's based on solid science. There is a growing trend now of 'objective audio' which is a good thing. However it still doesn't change the mindset of some electrical engineers. 120 ohm output impedance in a receiver in this day and age? unforgivable but it still happens.

49 ohm output impedance in the Samsung Galaxy S2? WHY!?!?!?


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> All of the tests you've described don't properly follow the scientific method and they do not constitute evidence. You are offering merely anecdote. Here's an article that explains why your "testing" isn't really valid testing: http://www.digido.com/level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system.html (You can't trust your ears to match levels)
> Also your blurb about THX demonstrates that you are quite susceptible to marketing.
> Once again, there's no scientific proof of demonstrable difference between items in the chain outside of the transducers in the modern day. There is a wealth of proof however demonstrating that modern DACs and amps sound the same.
> Your preference of the Grados are rational since transducers do measure differently and these measurements are audible.
> Also, don't feel bad: you're with the majority here that subscribe to the audiophile propaganda.


I agree, you are absolutely and 100% correct that my testing is neither scientific nor does it constitute any evidence beyond the anecdotal, and despite what many people in the high-end audio arena tend to think, the plural of "anecdote" is not "fact".
I myself am a man of science... I am working on two Master's Degrees: Biochemical Engineering and Psychopharmacology, so I am VERY well aware of the scientific method and how often and how badly it is abused. That said, I do not believe that I ever presented my position as "scientific evidence", merely as anecdote. I do not possess the necessary tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars worth of audio testing equipment that would be required to differentiate one pair of headphones from another, and neither does 99.99995% of the population. There is indeed equipment out there that can pick up on the slightest tonal/aural/whatever difference, and be able to present it as a numerical figure with applicable values, as well as chart graphs and all other fancy science-y stuff. They do a fantastic job, and sound engineering would be a dead industry without it.
However, you can take a million graphs showing every possible variable, show it to someone as "proof" that (for example) Senheiser headphones are superior to Grado headphones. You can do this after educating them on all of the subtleties of the audio equipment world, from the basic principles up to modern digital sound theory, but those million graphs and data points showing a "1.3% higher stability from 8215-10231hz resulting from slightly higher conductivity of the main wiring, resulting in more consistent diaphragm movement and thus superior sound", and the person might still tell you that the Senheiser headphones don't sound NEARLY as good as the Grado headphones.
Why?
Because, as with many sciences (from psychology to medicine to sociology to anthropology to chemistry to etc, etc, etc), HUMANS ARE EACH A SEPARATE VARIABLE! What sounds like the PERFECT pair of headphones to one person, may sound like garbage to the next. Hearing is done by the brain; the ears just send the "code" to be deciphered. As every person who has ever lived has had a brain that is distinct to them (from everyone else) in a near-infinite amount of ways (aside from the basic structural and functional aspects), there is not, nor will there ever be, a "perfect" set of speakers or headphones. For speakers, room dynamics do indeed play a HUGE role in the speakers' ultimate sound fidelity... yet compared to the role that is played by the differences between two people, it is almost infinitesimally small. (Remember, I said "compared to"; room acoustics/dynamics DO play a big role).

Fact is, while some things DO have a "best way" or "better way", such as how we can all agree that (under most circumstances) a liquid-cooled computer will perform better than an air-cooled computer consisting of the same parts, as the former will cool much better allowing for it to be pushed much harder. However, what CPU or what graphics cards or motherboard or RAM is used, that is individual... So it is with sound equipment... We can all agree that a multi-diaphragm (say, 7) tower will likely produce much more accurate sound than will a bookshelf speaker with only 2 diaphragms (which is why Bose is, literally, crappier than a $400 home theater in-a-box system, yet costs 6-15x as much but only uses PAPER diaphragms!). However, the difference between WHICH 7-speaker tower will sound better is much more complex and the individual will have preferences, physiological differences in their auditory system and brain, etc.

Bottom line: With Sound, there IS NO "ONE SIZE FITS ALL".
I hope you can agree with that....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> Is spending thousands of dollars on headphone amps a waste of money considering they output less power than amps for loud speakers? Is the pursuit of audiophilia a never ending rabbit hole?


You're asking this on a site where people regularly pour liquid nitrogen onto their CPU's/GPU's in pursuit of the highest "number"... Just wanted to point that out


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> *However, you can take a million graphs showing every possible variable, show it to someone as "proof" that (for example) Senheiser headphones are superior to Grado headphones.*
> 
> Fact is, while some things DO have a "best way" or "better way", such as how we can all agree that (under most circumstances) a liquid-cooled computer will perform better than an air-cooled computer consisting of the same parts, as the former will cool much better allowing for it to be pushed much harder. However, what CPU or what graphics cards or motherboard or RAM is used, that is individual... So it is with sound equipment... We can all agree that a multi-diaphragm (say, 7) tower will likely produce much more accurate sound than will a bookshelf speaker with only 2 diaphragms (which is why Bose is, literally, crappier than a $400 home theater in-a-box system, yet costs 6-15x as much but only uses PAPER diaphragms!). However, the difference between WHICH 7-speaker tower will sound better is much more complex and the individual will have preferences, physiological differences in their auditory system and brain, etc.
> Bottom line: With Sound, there IS NO "ONE SIZE FITS ALL".
> I hope you can agree with that....
> You're asking this on a site where people regularly pour liquid nitrogen onto their CPU's/GPU's in pursuit of the highest "number"... Just wanted to point that out


But that example isn't valid since no headphone (or transducer) measures nearly perfectly and again there's the variable of HRTF that you and Mr. kiwi brought up. HRTF doesn't really come into the equation at the signal level (i.e. amplifiers and DACs). It is well-known that headphones and speakers sound inescapably different. It is also well-known that DACs and amplifiers shouldn't.

I haven't at any point argued or even suggested that headphones and speakers could/would/should sound the same or even better than one another.

Just as we can benchmark computer systems, we can measure the performance at the signal level with a great degree of confidence and meaningfulness. We can measure DACs and amplifiers to perfection (once again, as far as our ears are concerned) but we can't really do the same for transducers.


----------



## CHRiSTPH

Hey,

I was just curious. I am looking to purchase the Audio Technica ATH-AD700, and I currently have the Fatal1ty Creative SB X-Fi sound card and was wondering after reading this thread if I should upgrade to the Xonar DX or the Xonar DG.

I currently am unsure if I even should change my graphics card, or if I do which one I should change to. My main purpose is for competitive FPS Gaming. I play a lot of Counter-Strike Source, and am looking into playing competitive Dota 2. My primary focus by far is for the FPS Gaming > MOBA.

If you guys have any suggestions, please let me know =)

~ CHRiSTPH


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHRiSTPH*
> 
> Hey,
> I was just curious. I am looking to purchase the Audio Technica ATH-AD700, and I currently have the Fatal1ty Creative SB X-Fi sound card and was wondering after reading this thread if I should upgrade to the Xonar DX or the Xonar DG.
> I currently am unsure if I even should change my graphics card, or if I do which one I should change to. My main purpose is for competitive FPS Gaming. I play a lot of Counter-Strike Source, and am looking into playing competitive Dota 2. My primary focus by far is for the FPS Gaming > MOBA.
> If you guys have any suggestions, please let me know =)
> ~ CHRiSTPH


Very nice choice in headphones! I think you will enjoy them very much! I personally am a huge fan of "open ear" designs, as I feel it allows for "quicker" and more "accurate" sound, as well as reducing listening fatigue.

The biggest difference that I can see between the XONAR cards and the FATAL1TY SB X-FI card is that the former is a 24bit 192khz card while the latter is 24bit 96khz. That means that the Xonar does have a wider range of sound that it can produce, but more than 70% of that range is outside of the range of human hearing. However, while I am not sure in these specific cases, those specifications MAY mean that the sound card can support input formats UP TO THAT LEVEL, meaning the Xonar will give you full DVD/Blu-Ray quality audio, while the card you have will give you "Super CD"/DVD quality audio. Will it be noticeable to you, through headphones, while playing CS:S? I would bet it is NOT noticeable, but ya never know.

My advice: those are nice headphones, and while I don't know their impedance level off the top of my head, I would still invest in a decent (>$150) headphone amplifier that can be used inline between your sound-card and your headphones, in order to be able to FULLY drive the 'cans and get the best sound out of them as you can. The sound card you have already has a low signal:noise, at about 122:1, so the sound quality will likely be very good. The headphone amplifier will make sure that you are not straining any part of your system in order to achieve the volume you want (if your computer is outputting at, say, 60%, and your headphone amp is at 25%, you could turn the amp up to 40% and get much better results than turning the computer up higher; it's the original source that will produce the most distortion, so I always keep my PC volume at 50-60%, while my amplifier is around 35%, and that is when I want it loud; normally, the PC is 50% and amplifier is maybe 20% max).

Hope that helps! Enjoy those headphones!


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHRiSTPH*
> 
> Hey,
> I was just curious. I am looking to purchase the Audio Technica ATH-AD700, and I currently have the Fatal1ty Creative SB X-Fi sound card and was wondering after reading this thread if I should upgrade to the Xonar DX or the Xonar DG.
> I currently am unsure if I even should change my graphics card, or if I do which one I should change to. My main purpose is for competitive FPS Gaming. I play a lot of Counter-Strike Source, and am looking into playing competitive Dota 2. My primary focus by far is for the FPS Gaming > MOBA.
> If you guys have any suggestions, please let me know =)
> ~ CHRiSTPH


Well for graphic cards it depends on how much you want to spend, i recently bought a Sapphire Radeon 6870 and it runs every game i can throw at it with max settings(BF3, Skyrim, Crysis 2, Saints row the third, Dirt 3 just to name a few) in css i get a constant 299fps are you going to be playing other games? the average fps is around 40-50 and max is 60 on more demanding games, only downside to this card is if you want to overclock it past stock speeds you wont get very far on stock voltage and the display driver will crash in-game.


----------



## CHRiSTPH

I appreciate the reply, I realized I really should have proof read my post before posting...

I meant to ask if I should upgrade my sound card, not my graphics card. My machine is pretty new, minus the sound card, i've had that for a few years.


----------



## CHRiSTPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Very nice choice in headphones! I think you will enjoy them very much! I personally am a huge fan of "open ear" designs, as I feel it allows for "quicker" and more "accurate" sound, as well as reducing listening fatigue.
> The biggest difference that I can see between the XONAR cards and the FATAL1TY SB X-FI card is that the former is a 24bit 192khz card while the latter is 24bit 96khz. That means that the Xonar does have a wider range of sound that it can produce, but more than 70% of that range is outside of the range of human hearing. However, while I am not sure in these specific cases, those specifications MAY mean that the sound card can support input formats UP TO THAT LEVEL, meaning the Xonar will give you full DVD/Blu-Ray quality audio, while the card you have will give you "Super CD"/DVD quality audio. Will it be noticeable to you, through headphones, while playing CS:S? I would bet it is NOT noticeable, but ya never know.
> My advice: those are nice headphones, and while I don't know their impedance level off the top of my head, I would still invest in a decent (>$150) headphone amplifier that can be used inline between your sound-card and your headphones, in order to be able to FULLY drive the 'cans and get the best sound out of them as you can. The sound card you have already has a low signal:noise, at about 122:1, so the sound quality will likely be very good. The headphone amplifier will make sure that you are not straining any part of your system in order to achieve the volume you want (if your computer is outputting at, say, 60%, and your headphone amp is at 25%, you could turn the amp up to 40% and get much better results than turning the computer up higher; it's the original source that will produce the most distortion, so I always keep my PC volume at 50-60%, while my amplifier is around 35%, and that is when I want it loud; normally, the PC is 50% and amplifier is maybe 20% max).
> Hope that helps! Enjoy those headphones!


Thank you very much nleksan,

All of your help was extremely appreciated!!


----------



## DriftinTofu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHRiSTPH*
> 
> I appreciate the reply, I realized I really should have proof read my post before posting...
> I meant to ask if I should upgrade my sound card, not my graphics card. My machine is pretty new, minus the sound card, i've had that for a few years.


For gaming id say your better off with the X-fi card since thats what those were made for, I have the Asus Xonar DG it sounds decent for both gaming and music definitely an upgrade over on-board sound, and with its built in headphone amp your really cant beat it for its price (30 bucks), i dont know how much better or worse it would sound for gaming compared to your x-fi card though.


----------



## CHRiSTPH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DriftinTofu*
> 
> For gaming id say your better off with the X-fi card since thats what those were made for, I have the Asus Xonar DG it sounds decent for both gaming and music definitely an upgrade over on-board sound, and with its built in headphone amp your really cant beat it for its price (30 bucks), i dont know how much better or worse it would sound for gaming compared to your x-fi card though.


Thanks Driftin,

I'm definitely going to order the headphones regardless, but i'm going to put some more thought into the sound card. Uhm when you guys say you have a headphone amp, is there a particular brand you recommend??


----------



## CHRiSTPH

I found a site that'll finally ship to Canada with a good price, but I am not sure if its a legit site or not.

http://www.gimmedigi.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2367&currency=cad&gclid=CPnn-473q60CFQVwhwod2jNtnA

What do you guys think!??!?


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHRiSTPH*
> 
> I found a site that'll finally ship to Canada with a good price, but I am not sure if its a legit site or not.
> http://www.gimmedigi.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2367&currency=cad&gclid=CPnn-473q60CFQVwhwod2jNtnA
> What do you guys think!??!?


Personally, I have never heard of the site. Does Amazon/Newegg not ship to Canada?? I would be wary of a site that no one knows of, but perhaps others will chime in who have used the site and are confident in doing so.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHRiSTPH*
> 
> Thanks Driftin,
> I'm definitely going to order the headphones regardless, but i'm going to put some more thought into the sound card. Uhm when you guys say you have a headphone amp, is there a particular brand you recommend??


Unfortunately, unless you are willing to drop a couple "Benjamins" on a headphone amplifier, you aren't going to get anything that will improve the sound of your headphones and in many cases, especially with mid-to-high-end headphones, you will actually LOSE sound fidelity with a sub-par amplifier. It's similar to building a home theater system: would you go out and spend thousands of dollars on high-end Polk or Klipsch (or Definitive or etc) tower speakers, center-channel speaker, surround-tower speakers, and a couple pairs of bookshelf-style speakers (front-high/wide) along with up to three subwoofers (say, two 10" and one 12") for a fantastic 9.3/11.3-channel Surround Sound setup, only to then go and spend $300 on a low-end Receiver? Or would you balance the speaker quality with the abilities of the receiver, such as getting a very nice 9.3/11.3ch Denon receiver for ~2500bux, and then starting with a 5.1-7.2 speaker setup with quality speakers and then upgrading when you could afford to, so that everything is being used to its fullest capacity (as much as possible, at least)? I, for one, think the second approach is the only one that makes sense, and thus it is how I approach headphones and headphone amplifiers; other people have other opinions, and it would be wise for you to search them out and get as much unbiased information as possible. Then you can make a fully-informed decision.

As far as headphone amplifiers go when looking at the lower-end of the Great Price Spectrum, it is not quite as cut and dry. In fact, I have heard and used some headphone amplifiers that cost $100 that were not 1/10th the amplifier as some costing $1000, more like 2/3rds as good. The biggest difference you'll hear is simply whether or not your cans are amped or not. With price, as it increases you DO get more features and higher-quality components held to a much higher standard, but sound quality becomes a diminishing return above the ~$150-200 price point. That's not to say that a $3000 amplifier doesn't produce better sound (assuming very good headphones) than a $100 amplifier, it's just not 30x better... Maybe, MAYBE it will be 3x better, but many other things will influence this.
Some of these influences are the "features" that I mentioned, which can include things such as "crossfeed processors", a feature I find to be useful for re-introducing a (semi-)accurate sound stage with headphone listening. Since music is typically designed to be listened to via speakers (stereo or "surround"), speakers will give you a sense of sound "direction" (where the sound is coming from) and "distance", by varying the audio sent to one channel versus another or by introducing a very slight delay, which results in (if seated properly) a "sound stage". This is a very simplified explanation, and you can find out more about how this works than you'd probably ever care to know simply via Google, but just know that in general, speakers offer a "good Sound Stage" while headphones offer a "poor sound stage" (you know how when you listen to headphones, it sounds like the Music is right in the middle of your head? Yeah, that's not how it would sound in an ideal world).

I've taken the liberty of finding a couple of products that I have personal experience with, some of these I own and some I have simply used, but none are completely foreign to me. Also, where possible, I am giving you the links to a review of the product the link provided will also direct you to an independent review of the product, so that you can determine for yourself whether or not they sound like something you need or if something else would suit you better. The reviews all will have links to where you can buy the product (typically the manufacturer's website), but you can also find them on various other sites.

*$200 and UNDER*

HeadRoom "Total Airhead" Headphone Amplifier $99.99 - This is a good product for the price, better than the Fiio amplifiers all over Amazon.com, and would be a great choice for portable listening with anything from an iPod or Smartphone to a Laptop; they have an integrated Crossfeed Processor that will enhance the sound stage and result in a more pleasant listening experience. Generally positive reviews for this one. This is probably the best "entry level" headphone amplifier, but don't expect miracles out of it.
IDEAL FOR: Traveling or Mobility, Portable Music Players (or listening to music "one the go"), etc.
Order From This Link

HeadRoom "Total BitHead" Headphone Amplifier $149.99 (Review) - Similar to the above, except the extra money gets you "higher quality transistors and capacitors, which result in better sound from the same amount of amplification" as well as better amplification and more features. They are just like the above in most of these features, as well, but would be worthwhile if you are looking for the best fidelity you can get, and to get it while "on the go". I myself hear a difference between these and their "little brother", via my Grado SR225's and RS2i's, but it's not an earth-shattering difference. Very good for the price, IMO, and a definitive step up from the "Total Airhead" amplifier in every way.
Order From This Link

*$201 to $500*

HeadRoom "Micro Amp" Desktop Headphone Amplifier $349.99 - This is a very good unit for the price, and unless you have Grado headphones, I would recommend it above the Grado RA-1 amplifier as, in my experience, the latter works best with headphones from its own family. This unit gives good amplification, as well as: "two analog inputs; our famous HeadRoom crossfeed for improved headphone imaging; 3-position gain control to precisely match headphone impedance; and rear panel volume-controlled output for powered desktop or computer speakers". In other words, you get more features and don't rely on batteries, so you will see, or rather hear, much bigger improvements in both amplification AND in sound fidelity with this amp over the "BitHead" or the "AirHead" units from the same company. I would recommend this, especially as you describe yourself as NOT an "audiophile". I can't see what more you would need than what you get out of this unit, and they do have a good record for reliability. Also, this unit was designed specifically for use with a desktop PC, so expect good results.
IDEAL FOR: Desktop Use such as with a PC or small Stereo, Video Games, Movies, etc.
Order From This Link

GRADO LABS RA-1 Desktop Headphone Amplifier $449.99 - As I said earlier, unless you have Grado 'cans, I'd skip it, as it is designed specifically to work with the 32Ohm headphones that Grado makes and I cannot speak to its quality when used with anything else. That said, if you DO have Grado headphones, it is one of the better (if not best) choices for an amplifier without getting into the 4-digit price range.
*NOTE: Also available are two other models - the RA-1HG ("High Gain") and the RA-1AC (AC-powered unit)*
Order From This Link

*$501 and BEYOND*

I won't give you specific links, because I am guessing you're not looking to drop a grand on a headphone amplifier. However, there are a few units worth mentioning, and you can find where-to-buy-them by simply plugging their names into Google.
Below is a list of the products' names and prices, and only listed are products that I have personally owned and/or used and that I thought were GOOD quality.

HeadRoom "Desktop Amp" Headphone Amplifier (+DAC and Pre-Amp all-in-one) - $850
Beyerdynamic A1 Headphone Amplifier - $825
SPL Phonitor Headphone Amplifier - $2100
Grace Design m903 Headphone Amplifier - $1475
HeadRoom "Ultra Desktop Amplifier (Balanced)" - $1650
SPL Auditor Headphone Amplifier - $875

I hope that helps to narrow your search! There are many more good amplifiers out there, but for every good one there are ten JUNK ones. Just be patient and do your research and you'll hopefully end up a very happy newly-minted audiophile!









Sincerely,
nleksan

PS: If you like to "DIY", then check this out... It's a home-made headphone amplifier that fits in an Altoids tin, and it's easy enough for the average lay-person to make in 4-5hrs! It's called the "CMoy Amp", after it's inventor. It should cost between $15-25 total to make, and it will do a fantastic job of amplifying your headphones!
Here are some links to get you started:
"How To Build The CMoy Pocket Amplifier"
"HeadWize - Project: A Pure Class A Dynamic Headphone Amplifier by Kevin Gilmore"
"JDS Labs - Do it Yourself Bass Boost cMoy Guide"
There are hundreds more like these out there, so good luck!


----------



## Simca

Updated the Speaker section a bit.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> HeadRoom "Total Airhead" Headphone Amplifier $99.99
> HeadRoom "Total BitHead" Headphone Amplifier $149.99
> HeadRoom "Micro Amp" Desktop Headphone Amplifier $349.99
> GRADO LABS RA-1 Desktop Headphone Amplifier $449.99
> HeadRoom "Desktop Amp" Headphone Amplifier (+DAC and Pre-Amp all-in-one) - $850
> Beyerdynamic A1 Headphone Amplifier - $825
> SPL Phonitor Headphone Amplifier - $2100
> Grace Design m903 Headphone Amplifier - $1475
> HeadRoom "Ultra Desktop Amplifier (Balanced)" - $1650
> SPL Auditor Headphone Amplifier - $875


These options are pretty much 400%+ their cost in parts.

The "best" headphone amplifier for most headphone users (especially for the money) is probably the O2. It'll run around $120-150 for a built amp though you could build one for cheaper with some DIY handiwork. For most loads it will sound as perfect as the human ear can discern.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Why are the Samson SR850 and the Superlux 668b mentioned under different sections? I've always heard that the SR850 was just a rebadged 668b with a different headband. I'm not sure how true that is though.


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> These options are pretty much 400%+ their cost in parts.
> The "best" headphone amplifier for most headphone users (especially for the money) is probably the O2. It'll run around $120-150 for a built amp though you could build one for cheaper with some DIY handiwork. For most loads it will sound as perfect as the human ear can discern.


I disagree. Not about them being marked up, that's always true (that's how companies make a profit), but about a simple amplifier being as good as some of what I listed. Those DIY-able amps aren't able to create a soundstage via software, because they don't have any software. I was listing many of those not only because they amplify the sound, but because they have additional features that enhance the overall quality of the total listening experience...

Granted, everyone's ears are different, so I respect your opinion. However, do note that I posted multiple links for DIY amplifiers (i.e. cMoy) at the end of my post... I wanted to give a full-range of options, from a 20 dollar Altoids-can amp to a $2500 professional-level amplifier (but mostly the stuff in between )


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I disagree. Not about them being marked up, that's always true (that's how companies make a profit), but about a simple amplifier being as good as some of what I listed. Those DIY-able amps aren't able to create a soundstage via software, because they don't have any software. I was listing many of those not only because they amplify the sound, but because they have additional features that enhance the overall quality of the total listening experience...


What you are talking about is alteration of the signal by means of deliberately introduced frequency response changes or distortion. That is not true to the source.

Equalization is most efficiently done via software or at the source (e.g. digital audio playing software on PC, or standalone digital audio player), especially in terms of cost.

You might enjoy your crossfeed switches and capacitance tricks that make the music sound different, but they'd be much more reasonably employed through foobar (as an example) which would save you the trouble of having a permanently colored piece of hardware.

The audible differences those fancy amps produce are differences that they introduce through debauchery of the signal. They are lacking in fidelity.


----------



## Simca

The O2 amp is very good for the price. I'm actually in the process of buying one. I don't like cMoy amps though.


----------



## mikeaj

For that matter, I don't think I've heard of a hardware crossfeed implementation (though I definitely haven't been looking around, and could well have missed many things) as sophisticated as this foobar plugin, which isn't exactly fiendishly complicated.

Most just do some kind of lowpass filtering of each channel, delay, and then add to the other channel.

It seems a lot easier and cheaper to do typical mathematical operations in software than in hardware...


----------



## FearSC549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Unfortunately, unless you are willing to drop a couple "Benjamins" on a headphone amplifier, you aren't going to get anything that will improve the sound of your headphones and in many cases, especially with mid-to-high-end headphones, you will actually LOSE sound fidelity with a sub-par amplifier. It's similar to building a home theater system: would you go out and spend thousands of dollars on high-end Polk or Klipsch (or Definitive or etc) tower speakers, center-channel speaker, surround-tower speakers, and a couple pairs of bookshelf-style speakers (front-high/wide) along with up to three subwoofers (say, two 10" and one 12") for a fantastic 9.3/11.3-channel Surround Sound setup, only to then go and spend $300 on a low-end Receiver? Or would you balance the speaker quality with the abilities of the receiver, such as getting a very nice 9.3/11.3ch Denon receiver for ~2500bux, and then starting with a 5.1-7.2 speaker setup with quality speakers and then upgrading when you could afford to, so that everything is being used to its fullest capacity (as much as possible, at least)? I, for one, think the second approach is the only one that makes sense, and thus it is how I approach headphones and headphone amplifiers; other people have other opinions, and it would be wise for you to search them out and get as much unbiased information as possible. Then you can make a fully-informed decision.
> As far as headphone amplifiers go when looking at the lower-end of the Great Price Spectrum, it is not quite as cut and dry. In fact, I have heard and used some headphone amplifiers that cost $100 that were not 1/10th the amplifier as some costing $1000, more like 2/3rds as good. The biggest difference you'll hear is simply whether or not your cans are amped or not. With price, as it increases you DO get more features and higher-quality components held to a much higher standard, but sound quality becomes a diminishing return above the ~$150-200 price point. That's not to say that a $3000 amplifier doesn't produce better sound (assuming very good headphones) than a $100 amplifier, it's just not 30x better... Maybe, MAYBE it will be 3x better, but many other things will influence this.
> Some of these influences are the "features" that I mentioned, which can include things such as "crossfeed processors", a feature I find to be useful for re-introducing a (semi-)accurate sound stage with headphone listening. Since music is typically designed to be listened to via speakers (stereo or "surround"), speakers will give you a sense of sound "direction" (where the sound is coming from) and "distance", by varying the audio sent to one channel versus another or by introducing a very slight delay, which results in (if seated properly) a "sound stage". This is a very simplified explanation, and you can find out more about how this works than you'd probably ever care to know simply via Google, but just know that in general, speakers offer a "good Sound Stage" while headphones offer a "poor sound stage" (you know how when you listen to headphones, it sounds like the Music is right in the middle of your head? Yeah, that's not how it would sound in an ideal world).
> I've taken the liberty of finding a couple of products that I have personal experience with, some of these I own and some I have simply used, but none are completely foreign to me. Also, where possible, I am giving you the links to a review of the product the link provided will also direct you to an independent review of the product, so that you can determine for yourself whether or not they sound like something you need or if something else would suit you better. The reviews all will have links to where you can buy the product (typically the manufacturer's website), but you can also find them on various other sites.
> *$200 and UNDER*
> HeadRoom "Total Airhead" Headphone Amplifier $99.99 - This is a good product for the price, better than the Fiio amplifiers all over Amazon.com, and would be a great choice for portable listening with anything from an iPod or Smartphone to a Laptop; they have an integrated Crossfeed Processor that will enhance the sound stage and result in a more pleasant listening experience. Generally positive reviews for this one. This is probably the best "entry level" headphone amplifier, but don't expect miracles out of it.
> IDEAL FOR: Traveling or Mobility, Portable Music Players (or listening to music "one the go"), etc.
> Order From This Link
> HeadRoom "Total BitHead" Headphone Amplifier $149.99 (Review) - Similar to the above, except the extra money gets you "higher quality transistors and capacitors, which result in better sound from the same amount of amplification" as well as better amplification and more features. They are just like the above in most of these features, as well, but would be worthwhile if you are looking for the best fidelity you can get, and to get it while "on the go". I myself hear a difference between these and their "little brother", via my Grado SR225's and RS2i's, but it's not an earth-shattering difference. Very good for the price, IMO, and a definitive step up from the "Total Airhead" amplifier in every way.
> Order From This Link
> *$201 to $500*
> HeadRoom "Micro Amp" Desktop Headphone Amplifier $349.99 - This is a very good unit for the price, and unless you have Grado headphones, I would recommend it above the Grado RA-1 amplifier as, in my experience, the latter works best with headphones from its own family. This unit gives good amplification, as well as: "two analog inputs; our famous HeadRoom crossfeed for improved headphone imaging; 3-position gain control to precisely match headphone impedance; and rear panel volume-controlled output for powered desktop or computer speakers". In other words, you get more features and don't rely on batteries, so you will see, or rather hear, much bigger improvements in both amplification AND in sound fidelity with this amp over the "BitHead" or the "AirHead" units from the same company. I would recommend this, especially as you describe yourself as NOT an "audiophile". I can't see what more you would need than what you get out of this unit, and they do have a good record for reliability. Also, this unit was designed specifically for use with a desktop PC, so expect good results.
> IDEAL FOR: Desktop Use such as with a PC or small Stereo, Video Games, Movies, etc.
> Order From This Link
> GRADO LABS RA-1 Desktop Headphone Amplifier $449.99 - As I said earlier, unless you have Grado 'cans, I'd skip it, as it is designed specifically to work with the 32Ohm headphones that Grado makes and I cannot speak to its quality when used with anything else. That said, if you DO have Grado headphones, it is one of the better (if not best) choices for an amplifier without getting into the 4-digit price range.
> *NOTE: Also available are two other models - the RA-1HG ("High Gain") and the RA-1AC (AC-powered unit)*
> Order From This Link
> *$501 and BEYOND*
> I won't give you specific links, because I am guessing you're not looking to drop a grand on a headphone amplifier. However, there are a few units worth mentioning, and you can find where-to-buy-them by simply plugging their names into Google.
> Below is a list of the products' names and prices, and only listed are products that I have personally owned and/or used and that I thought were GOOD quality.
> HeadRoom "Desktop Amp" Headphone Amplifier (+DAC and Pre-Amp all-in-one) - $850
> Beyerdynamic A1 Headphone Amplifier - $825
> SPL Phonitor Headphone Amplifier - $2100
> Grace Design m903 Headphone Amplifier - $1475
> HeadRoom "Ultra Desktop Amplifier (Balanced)" - $1650
> SPL Auditor Headphone Amplifier - $875
> I hope that helps to narrow your search! There are many more good amplifiers out there, but for every good one there are ten JUNK ones. Just be patient and do your research and you'll hopefully end up a very happy newly-minted audiophile!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> nleksan
> PS: If you like to "DIY", then check this out... It's a home-made headphone amplifier that fits in an Altoids tin, and it's easy enough for the average lay-person to make in 4-5hrs! It's called the "CMoy Amp", after it's inventor. It should cost between $15-25 total to make, and it will do a fantastic job of amplifying your headphones!
> Here are some links to get you started:
> "How To Build The CMoy Pocket Amplifier"
> "HeadWize - Project: A Pure Class A Dynamic Headphone Amplifier by Kevin Gilmore"
> "JDS Labs - Do it Yourself Bass Boost cMoy Guide"
> There are hundreds more like these out there, so good luck!


There are way more amps in those price section that are better than the one you recommend.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Why are the Samson SR850 and the Superlux 668b mentioned under different sections? I've always heard that the SR850 was just a rebadged 668b with a different headband. I'm not sure how true that is though.


Not really a rebrand, they have different drivers but share a similar sound signature.


----------



## Simca

Added a few more headsets to the list if you absolutely NEED a headset. Just a reminder, even if you go with Steelseries or Tritons, the game positioning and quality will go up with a sound card.


----------



## AtomicJok3r

Simca, I cannot thank you enough for all the help you given me indirectly with all your information. I have some questions on what headset I should get, I am currently looking at the Ultrasone Pro 550s, because they are supposedly good for gaming & have nice bass quality to them.

Now you said to use Creative SC's. I was told that they are not the best of late, and to look to ASUS, is this true or is it just whatever fits your fancy? Also I read some reviews and lots of people use amps on them, should I use an amp on these or just use them with the sound card?


----------



## Simca

You don't need an amp for the Pro 550s. They're pretty efficient headphones. Creative sound cards are more geared towards gaming while Asus is more geared towards music playback. Doesn't really matter which you choose. Custom drivers will solve any problems with normal Creative drivers.


----------



## nleksan

FearSC549: I am aware that there are higher-quality amps out there, in fact there are thousands to choose from, but I listed some that are easily available (in my experience) and which are both reliable AND high quality. The last list, where "price is no concern", was more of a "look and see all of what is out there and how diverse it is" than a "BUY THESE" kind of list, if you know what I mean...

Then again, what exactly determines "sound quality" can vary as much as what determines "music quality"... Every pair of ears are different (actually, it's the brain that's different, ears aren't nearly as unique as is the brain, which is what is really doing the hearing







)


----------



## lb_felipe

Please give your opinion about the following setup. Thanks in advance.

For

movie: 20%
music: 40%
gaming: 40%

Soundcard: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
Headphones: beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms)
Speaker: Dynaudio MC 15
Speaker: Dynaudio MC 15
Subwoofer: Velodyne MiniVee-10
DAC: Audio-GD NFB-2.1
HP amplifier: Audio-GD C-2.2
Interconnection: Audio-GD ACSS cables New type
Interconnection: Belden 1694A Stereo Audio Cables
Interconnection: Belden 1694A Stereo Audio Cables

Note: It would only use the digital output of the sound card. I thought for that dedicated sound card in particular because of its DSP that provides real gains for positional audio for games.


----------



## Simca

No reason to buy an Audio-GD external DAC when you're going to use the Titanium HD as a DAC. Never tried the Audio-GD HP, so can't comment. Never heard Dyanaudia MC 15s. I think for 40% music listening, you should get another headphone unless you just listen to electronica/dubstep.

Never heard that subwoofer.

Perhaps someone else that knows more about the setup you've chosen can tell you whether it's good or not.


----------



## Arnotts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Please give your opinion about the following setup. Thanks in advance.
> For
> movie: 20%
> music: 40%
> gaming: 40%
> Soundcard: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
> Headphones: beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms)
> Speaker: Dynaudio MC 15
> Speaker: Dynaudio MC 15
> Subwoofer: Velodyne MiniVee-10
> DAC: Audio-GD NFB-2.1
> HP amplifier: Audio-GD C-2.2
> Interconnection: Audio-GD ACSS cables New type
> Interconnection: Belden 1694A Stereo Audio Cables
> Interconnection: Belden 1694A Stereo Audio Cables
> Note: It would only use the digital output of the sound card. I thought for that dedicated sound card in particular because of its DSP that provides real gains for positional audio for games.


I can't remember if it was you or someone else, but I do remember someone asking me about the delay between visuals and audio when using DSP over digital out. I recently read this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/483802/quest-for-holy-grail-of-gaming-sound

and at point number 6 he states:
Quote:


> THE DELAY -If you connect your soundcard digitaly (via optic cable or coaxial) to a receiver and your headphones are plugged into thing, and have enabled any kind of digital processing or effect, you'll get a second or a half delay of sound when playing games. Not much, but if you're serious gamer, a second before you hear someone is usually a matter of life and death.


How true is that? I don't know, but it's something worth considering. Other than that though, it looks like a ridiculously good system - especially that speaker setup.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arnotts*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> THE DELAY -If you connect your soundcard digitaly (via optic cable or coaxial) to a receiver and your headphones are plugged into thing, and have enabled any kind of digital processing or effect, you'll get a second or a half delay of sound when playing games. Not much, but if you're serious gamer, a second before you hear someone is usually a matter of life and death.
> 
> 
> 
> How true is that? I don't know, but it's something worth considering. Other than that though, it looks like a ridiculously good system - especially that speaker setup.
Click to expand...

I'm running through optical out and have no such problems.

Onboard Optical Out (Supreme X-Fi which is really just a Realtek with Creative software) with THX TruStudio Pro Surround settings enabled → Peachtree Audio Nova → Anthony Gallo Strada + SVS SB12-Plus or JH13 Pros

No audible delay to speak of through either the speakers or headphones, though I'm not discrediting it as a possibility.


----------



## lb_felipe

Simca I thank you for your attention. I always take your advice into consideration.

Arnotts it was me. I had asked you if there is some kind of lag when using optical output due the external conversion to analog. According to that guy, there is. Thank you for the link.

So to use gaming, external DAC is no way. Does a headphone amplifier also introduce a delay? I guess doesn't, and you?

friend'scatdied now I was confused. Thank you for your post. We'll see if someone comes to a conclusion about it.

I consider these speakers because they are one of the few quality speakers for sale in Brazil. Swan, M-Audio, Audioengine and several other decent and cheap speakers are not found here. Here we only find B&W MM-1 for $900 and Dynaudio MC 15 for $2,400.

Please feel free to criticize or suggest something.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Simca I thank you for your attention. I always take your advice into consideration.
> 
> Arnotts it was me. I had asked you if there is some kind of lag when using optical output due the external conversion to analog. According to that guy, there is. Thank you for the link.
> 
> So to use gaming, external DAC is no way. Does a headphone amplifier also introduce a delay? I guess doesn't, and you?
> 
> friend'scatdied now I was confused. Thank you for your post. We'll see if someone comes to a conclusion about it.
> 
> I consider these speakers because they are one of the few quality speakers for sale in Brazil. Swan, M-Audio, Audioengine and several other decent and cheap speakers are not found here. Here we only find B&W MM-1 for $900 and Dynaudio MC 15 for $2,400.
> 
> Please feel free to criticize or suggest something.


Dude, you should check out websites that have audio equipment and do international shipping. Even if you pay 100 dollars for shipping which you'd never pay that much for, you'd STILL be saving a ton of money. Don't buy from Brazil if you can. You're paying way too much for that stuff. Those speakers in America are 1200 dollars. You're paying double.

Anyway..a headphone amplifier won't introduce any delay.


----------



## crizthakidd

for 75 bucks i can get the sol tracks HD. they say they are the reasonable priced beats by dre i listen to house music and dj electro is this aa good deal or should i be looking else where im trying spend sub 100


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Well, I finally bit the bullet and ordered an HD598.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Well, I finally bit the bullet and ordered an HD598.


You didn't pay over $200, did you?


----------



## csm725

They used to be $170 on Amazon


----------



## snoball

Hey guys, whats up?

Care to recommend me some headphones.

Less than $150 USD
Newegg/Buy/Amazon/TigerDirect NO EBAY

Music Tastes:
DnB, House, Hardstyle and such
I am looking for decent bass
100% music use here.

PS: My rig is loud, I prefer to have a closed ear design, open air and I can hear the case fans.


----------



## Simca

Ultrasone DJ-1 or 580


----------



## Arnotts

Or Sony XB-500/XB-700.

People that don't like bright treble or Ultrasone's headband design should probably stay away from them. Even I'm not a big fan of the headband design. But then if you do like bright headphones with good, hard hitting bass, then Ultrasone's are pretty damn good.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arnotts*
> 
> Or Sony XB-500/XB-700.
> 
> People that don't like bright treble or Ultrasone's headband design should probably stay away from them. Even I'm not a big fan of the headband design. But then if you do like bright headphones with good, hard hitting bass, then Ultrasone's are pretty damn good.


Sure, but once you get past the bass in the XB headphones, you start to realize that not much else is really there. They quickly become boring imo.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> You didn't pay over $200, did you?


Nope, $168 from electronics expo.


----------



## Simca

I'm putting in place a warning on the Titanium HD as having a reputation of dying. If these events continue to arise I will have to pull the TiHd from the recommended list. It was the reason I do not recommend Auzentech sound cards anymore. I'm starting to think it has something to do with the X-Fi chip. It's the only similarity I see between Auzentech and Creative. Asus cards don't seem to have ever run into any issues like this.

For those that aren't aware, Ti-HD's have been reported as being unable to be recognized by the system after about a year of usage. This renders the card useless.


----------



## crizthakidd

simca i asked about the SOL tracks HD that retail for 130 but im getting them for 75 do u think this is the best option for bass heavy music and clear electric music production? should i be going for something better at that price point ?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crizthakidd*
> 
> simca i asked about the SOL tracks HD that retail for 130 but im getting them for 75 do u think this is the best option for bass heavy music and clear electric music production? should i be going for something better at that price point ?


You can find a LOT better headphones than the SOL Tracks HD for the price. The only thing that really makes these stand out is the bass. Other bassy headphones are superior to this headphone in many ways though. For you, the better buy would probably be Sony XB-700s if you're into bass heavy music.

If you've got more to spend the Ultrasone line up is the way to go.

If you want more information on the SOL Tracks HD, contact EpicPie. I believe he has them or at least had them at one point. Pretty sure he'll tell you better can be found for the price.


----------



## CookiiMonster

Looking for some new headphones to upgrade from a half broken, small headset

1) Budget : £70

2) Mainly rock, some indie, pop, techno, dnb, metal. (Mainly bands like foo fighters, nirvana, Travis, Coldplay, coheed and cambria, Go west, Hall & Oates, Crowded house)

3) Comfort is a big thing for me. Although I will be gaming with them, it's going to be 90% music, 5% Movies and 5% gaming

4) Was looking to get a Xonar DG

5) UK, only site I was looking at was amazon.co.uk

Thanks!


----------



## Epyon415

Figure I'd ask here:

-Got a pair of Ultrasone PRO 550s, loving them to death. Also got a FiiO E6. Have used it on my computer and realized that I need a dedicated amp for my pc use.
-Usage: 65% music, 35% game (usually kill game audio during non-crucial parts)

So what I'd like to know is what sort of setup would everyone suggest? I am not sure if I should get a soundcard + amp + dac (?)...which do i need most? I would like something on my desk so I can show it off







. Mainly want to make sure I am getting the most out of the headphones. Something like the E9/E7 combo looks fairly decent, but I am not sure if I need a DAC, or would getting a soundcard solve that issue? Not having an internal card would leave me room to SLI my gpu later down the road (not my current cards, gene board is small).

So yea.....halp







!


----------



## Simca

Ditch the amp, you don't need it. Get yourself a nice sound card. I suggest a Xonar DX if you're not looking to spend too much.

If you don't want the internal solution, grab a Fiio e10 as that's nice and cheap (even comes with an ok amp for your Ultrasones). If you want to hit up an external DAC around 100, the Zero DAC is a good place to look.


----------



## Epyon415

Simca - first many thanks bro. Your recommendation of the PRO 550s def proved right! Many +Rep if I could, you really know your stuff.

Can I get some insight to your aversion to an amp?

As for the soundcard/DAC solution, is one better than the other?

After reading the preview for the E17 (off headfonia), would you suggest it over the E10?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epyon415*
> 
> Simca - first many thanks bro. Your recommendation of the PRO 550s def proved right! Many +Rep if I could, you really know your stuff.
> 
> Can I get some insight to your aversion to an amp?
> 
> As for the soundcard/DAC solution, is one better than the other?
> 
> After reading the preview for the E17 (off headfonia), would you suggest it over the E10?


I actually know nothing about the E17.

People new to audio think they should buy an amp and that it'll give them better SQ. That's not true for most headphones. The best reason to buy an amp is if you're having a hard time hearing the music because the ohms on your headphone are too high (not the case on the Pro 550s). The 2nd reason you would buy a headphone is because they need to be driven in order to get the headphone to respond the way they were meant to. Sometimes an amp will help fix sloppy bass, may help to clear up mids under certain circumstances and may help to avert shrilly highs.

Not all headphones respond this way to an amp. In some headphones will you see absolutely no improvement. The Pro 550 is one of those headphones that don't need an amp and don't benefit from it. There are certain headphones that respond well to a headphone amp that don't actually need volume increase. The HD515 is a good example. The Denon D2000 can be driven on onboard for many people, but with the right type of amplifier, it will improve the mids, discipline the bass and have other positive effects.

On some headphones the amp is said to even increase sound stage. I've never personally heard a sound stage increase in a headphone, but I also don't doubt it's possible.


----------



## kyo1992

dude, thank for the thread, i purchased Xonar DX and Ad700 for gaming and movies, well I gotta say I kinda satisfied. However, I'm using the 2.1 insignia speakers and well it performs well enough but I don't know if it's worth to upgrade to Klipsh Promedia. I'm afraid my ears is not that sensitive. BTW Logitech X540s isn't around 40 bucks anymore, its kinda more than 100 bucks already here in US.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyo1992*
> 
> dude, thank for the thread, i purchased Xonar DX and Ad700 for gaming and movies, well I gotta say I kinda satisfied. However, I'm using the 2.1 insignia speakers and well it performs well enough but I don't know if it's worth to upgrade to Klipsh Promedia. I'm afraid my ears is not that sensitive. BTW Logitech X540s isn't around 40 bucks anymore, its kinda more than 100 bucks already here in US.


It's always been around that price. I suggest people find it used or not at all.


----------



## LivingChampion

Do you think I'll need an AMP for PRO 750s?

If the PRO 750s do need an amp, would you say it's worth the buy if I already have the Xonar DX over the PRO 550s?

Whats your take on the PRO 900?

50/50 Gaming/Music


----------



## SilentBug

I want some headphones for gaming however I do want them to be closed so the sound doesn't disturb/wake people. Im looking to pay $75 USD max.


----------



## PROX1MI7Y

After reading your guide I think I have settled on trying out the Superlux HD668B's for my first pair of gaming headphones. I would love to get the AD700s but the price seems to have risen quite abit and I cant find them for under $90.

Hopefully I have made the right choice!


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PROX1MI7Y*
> 
> After reading your guide I think I have settled on trying out the Superlux HD668B's for my first pair of gaming headphones. I would love to get the AD700s but the price seems to have risen quite abit and I cant find them for under $90.
> Hopefully I have made the right choice!


You may be able to find a lightly used pair in the for sale section.


----------



## snoball

I'd like to thank the creator of this thread. The guide was perfect and led to my selection of the following audio upgrades:

Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium

Samson SR850 (Audio Heaven)

FiiO E6

Zalman Zm-1 Mic

The setup ROCKS for music, but I had intended to keep my Razer Carcrapias for gaming, that lasted all of an hour. I am in audio heaven now. I was surprised by the affect the E6 has, for a little square it really kicks, I love bass. I tested it first on my Motorola Atrix, successfully filtered out some annoying hiss I get. Also increased bass and softened the cymbals in the rock music I listen to. As for on my PC the E6 functions as an easy way to adjust volume. Razer Blackwidow requires key combo for volume, FORGET IT, windows stays at 50% and I do the rest on FiiO.

Do you think the E6 will help my Sennheiser CX400 IIs any?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> I'd like to thank the creator of this thread. The guide was perfect and led to my selection of the following audio upgrades:
> 
> Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium
> 
> Samson SR850 (Audio Heaven)
> 
> FiiO E6
> 
> Zalman Zm-1 Mic
> 
> The setup ROCKS for music, but I had intended to keep my Razer Carcrapias for gaming, that lasted all of an hour. I am in audio heaven now. I was surprised by the affect the E6 has, for a little square it really kicks, I love bass. I tested it first on my Motorola Atrix, successfully filtered out some annoying hiss I get. Also increased bass and softened the cymbals in the rock music I listen to. As for on my PC the E6 functions as an easy way to adjust volume. Razer Blackwidow requires key combo for volume, FORGET IT, windows stays at 50% and I do the rest on FiiO.
> 
> Do you think the E6 will help my Sennheiser CX400 IIs any?


Thank you, thank you. ~Flutters eyelashes~

Why not try it out yourself and see?


----------



## Simca

Added the Mackie MR5MK2 as another powered alternative at the 300 dollar mark.

Added the Dayton B652s.

Added a brief amplifier section for passive speakers.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added a brief amplifier section for passive speakers.


What do you think of the FiiO A1?


----------



## lb_felipe

Simca, why the NHT SuperZero 2.0 are as active speakers? Are they not passive?


----------



## delow

How come the STX is not recommended without a good headset? it's got a 124 SNR which is what I thought gave the crystal clear sound? if not what specs should one look for in a card for really good sound? the titanium HD only has 122 SNR but it doesn't support XP which I still use alot since it's very stable for gaming and is lighting fast with SB


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delow*
> 
> How come the STX is not recommended without a good headset? it's got a 124 SNR which is what I thought gave the crystal clear sound? if not what specs should one look for in a card for really good sound? the titanium HD only has 122 SNR but it doesn't support XP which I still use alot since it's very stable for gaming and is lighting fast with SB


Most importantly, sound quality is almost all determined by the speakers/headphones and audio file, and much less by any other components in general. Especially these days, it's pretty easy to do an okay job with D/A and amplification with low cost, so even integrated audio is often not bad at all, in the grand scheme of things. Not so for headphones.

Secondly, SNR is just some measure of noise relative to some signal level. There are multiple different valid ways to express SNR, so manufacturers tend to just list the measure that gives the highest number and is thus not really comparable between different devices unless you take into account their maximum output levels. "Crystal clear sound" also depends on a good deal of other factors than just having a high SNR, so it's really not anything to be fixated on.

Furthermore, note that manufacturer listed specs can rarely be achieved in practice, particularly for analog audio components in a computer. For example, Essence STX and ST were tested in the below link. See the paragraph under Fig. 3:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-ststx-soundcards-measurements

Note that most audio reviewers will probably have a worse power supply but much less EMI from system components in their test setups than a gaming rig. So expect performance when stuffed near electrically noisy high-power graphics cards to be possibly worse, or maybe unpredictably different.


----------



## Simca

I don't have a lot of experience with most Fiio products. Mostly have just heard the e7 e9 and have only read about the e10/e17.

Never bothered with the lower end fiio equipment. So I can't comment on the A1. Never tried it, heard it, read about it etc..

The STX is not recommended with a "Good headset" because the amplifier on it is poo to put it simply. The DAC isn't bad on it, but the amplifier is poor. You're better off getting an external DAC or a cheaper sound card +dedicated amp.

SNR isn't everything, check out mikeaj's post for more information. The DAC chip used is also important among other things.

Fixed that error lb_felipe


----------



## Hexa

I'm looking to changing my sound card when I build my new PC here in a week or so. After reading this thread I'm a tad confused as to what I should go for. I was thinking about the STX or ST but It's stated not to get it unless you have headphones that will use it. What head phones are recomended for the amp it has? Right now I have Senn HD 595's which for the most part don't need a head phone amp.

Is the amp on the STX high enough quality for more expensive headphones or would it work great with my HD 595's? Also I'm assuming the STX is better then the Titanium HD for music but what about for games? Is it even close to the Titanium HD?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Hey Simca,

I would personally like to see your passive section expanded a little more. Maybe include some powered subwoofers somewhere in that list, more active speakers, and maybe some receiver suggestions as well in the amplifier section.

Great list though. Just missing more of the custom stuff that's recommended.


----------



## Simca

My knowledge on receivers is very limited. From my very miniscule knowledge, I know that while receivers offer a DAC, speaker amp, the ability to use 7.1 for a home theater build and a bunch of other (imo useless features), it's honestly not worth it compared to a dedicated external DAC+dedicated speaker amp. If you want to go with a receiver, Yamaha is really the go to receiver. Denon is good too. Harmon Kardon isn't bad and Onkyo's DAC section most of the time doesn't compare to Yamaha's.

By all means if you have suggestions, lay them out. I'm not the only one that's full of knowledge.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hexa*
> 
> I'm looking to changing my sound card when I build my new PC here in a week or so. After reading this thread I'm a tad confused as to what I should go for. I was thinking about the STX or ST but It's stated not to get it unless you have headphones that will use it. What head phones are recomended for the amp it has? Right now I have Senn HD 595's which for the most part don't need a head phone amp.
> Is the amp on the STX high enough quality for more expensive headphones or would it work great with my HD 595's? Also I'm assuming the STX is better then the Titanium HD for music but what about for games? Is it even close to the Titanium HD?


The titanium HD supports CMSS-3d and thx tru-studio and has full eax support. The Xonar has Dolby headphone and most of the games that I played with EAX on a Xonar DX were problematic, thankfully I don't play many eax supported titles. I would say that those are the main differences as far as gaming is concerned.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> My knowledge on receivers is very limited. From my very miniscule knowledge, I know that while receivers offer a DAC, speaker amp, the ability to use 7.1 for a home theater build and a bunch of other (imo useless features), it's honestly not worth it compared to a dedicated external DAC+dedicated speaker amp. If you want to go with a receiver, Yamaha is really the go to receiver. Denon is good too. Harmon Kardon isn't bad and Onkyo's DAC section most of the time doesn't compare to Yamaha's.
> By all means if you have suggestions, lay them out. I'm not the only one that's full of knowledge.


I don't blame you. The area of home theater with regards to speakers, receivers and subwoofers is far, far, _far_ more diverse than mere headphone audio.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Stickied and updated a tad. I de-recommend HT Omega's because of poor RMAA results vs. the competition.


----------



## WildEast

I game a lot mainly fps stuff, should I go for the JVC HA-RX700 or the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S? Both priced similarly.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WildEast*
> 
> I game a lot mainly fps stuff, should I go for the JVC HA-RX700 or the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S? Both priced similarly.


I'm diggin my Samson SR850s. Great positional audio in them paired with the Titanium X-Fi. They also rock any music I can throw at it.


----------



## WildEast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> I'm diggin my Samson SR850s. Great positional audio in them paired with the Titanium X-Fi. They also rock any music I can throw at it.


That's a noticeable quality over the RX700? Also how about the Samson RH600?


----------



## snoball

I've only had the chance to try the 850s.


----------



## scorpiontsi

Sorry if this has been asked before.. I own a tx-nr1008 onkyo reciever. I have onboard sound... I obviously do not need a amp. How much effect is a sound card having on sound sent over hdmi to a highish end reciever like this? From what I can tell very little at least on HD sound formats like TruHD and DTS-HD. I am somewhat of a audio geek. This is a big 7.1 setup expandable to 9.1

Want good sound for music and movies. Onboard sound going to provide me with virtually the same experience as a high end card? Reason I think this might be the case is most if not all audio processing is going on in my reciever unless I am mistaken.


----------



## lb_felipe

I saw that Creative’s Recon3D PCIe series have a built-in headphones amplifier and a dedicated headphones jack for it. Is it OK to use a external headphone amplifier connected exactly in that jack, or could it be double amplification making that things do not work well?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpiontsi*
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before.. I own a tx-nr1008 onkyo reciever. I have onboard sound... I obviously do not need a amp. How much effect is a sound card having on sound sent over hdmi to a highish end reciever like this? From what I can tell very little at least on HD sound formats like TruHD and DTS-HD. I am somewhat of a audio geek. This is a big 7.1 setup expandable to 9.1
> 
> Want good sound for music and movies. Onboard sound going to provide me with virtually the same experience as a high end card? Reason I think this might be the case is most if not all audio processing is going on in my reciever unless I am mistaken.


If you're using audio over HDMI, you'll get literally no difference with a sound card. If you're using optical, then you should switch to HDMI if possible, as optical can only do 5.1.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> I saw that Creative's Recon3D PCIe series have a built-in headphones amplifier and a dedicated headphones jack for it. Is it OK to use a external headphone amplifier connected exactly in that jack, or could it be double amplification making that things do not work well?


That would be "double amping" but often or in general, that's not really an issue. The first amplifier generally does a lot better running into 10k ohms or so (another amplifier) than it does running into headphones (usually some 16 to 600 ohms, depending on the model), so the effect of the first amplifier is often negligible. If you look at the inside of one amplifier, you may internally find multiple stages, some of which may use similar circuits to what the first amplifier has, so the distinction is kind of vague anyway.


----------



## Simca

You know, I still haven't gotten around to gaming with the Panasonic headphones, but the Samson head phones are so much better than the rx700s that I recommend you choosing either the sr850 out rh600 over the rx700.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE


----------



## scorpiontsi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> If you're using audio over HDMI, you'll get literally no difference with a sound card. If you're using optical, then you should switch to HDMI if possible, as optical can only do 5.1.


Thank you much that is what I suspected.


----------



## jaywar

Looking for some help. Looking for a DAC/Amp combo for my pc and macbook. I will be using primarily headphones, but would like the ability to set up a 2.1 system later on. Price range less than 500. Music taste is pretty broad. I do dabble in some BF3 now and again as well. Any suggestions would be more than welcome.


----------



## ducktape

Saw the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 for 55 on cl. Is that a good deal? Is there anything specific I should ask or look for if I do get them?


----------



## LivingChampion

Make sure its working properly.

I would first check if the control pod is working as intended. Such as if both the speakers on the left and right sound are of equal volume.

I had the problem with one of the speakers being a bit louder than the other and the right speaker would not turn completely off when I turn the volume all the way low on the dial, but warranty fixed it by sending me a new control pod.


----------



## Simca

Btw, feel free to remove any Audio-GD recommendations that may be in the thread that I didn't bother removing. The op-amps in the Audio-GD DACs are actually really crappy from what I hear. Tons of distortion.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Btw, feel free to remove any Audio-GD recommendations that may be in the thread that I didn't bother removing. The op-amps in the Audio-GD DACs are actually really crappy from what I hear. Tons of distortion.


"Tons" is kind of hard to say one way or the other. On one hand, they've got higher distortion than cheaper alternatives. On the other, in many cases it's probably still lower than people can hear in general.

See here for some measurements of the Audio-GD discrete op amps, among other things:
http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/index.html

Again, I'd reiterate that most people have an overly op-amp and tube-centric view of sound quality. Circuits and overall design matter more. For that matter, the more worrying thing to me is in general the opinions expressed in their product pages / marketing literature:
Quote:


> ACSS is a non-feedback technology make by Discrete amp. Most people had know the global feedback can offer better specs for the meters, non-feedback can't please the meters but can offer better sound for human's ears . Here is a conflict of the class circuits. But the ACSS arrive a new field, it can offer least coloration sound which is more neutral with very low distortion and high linear .


So they're proud of not using feedback? With feedback in pretty much any system (including audio ones), you can get better performance, higher linearity. So in audio, that means less distortion so less coloration, the opposite of...wait...what? etc.

But of course there are many Audio-GD fans out there. If anything, they can offer a different sound than what you might get otherwise. As for whether or not that "different" means "better" to one listener, it's hard to say. Which sound you prefer is up to do. Anyway, they're not going for high fidelity in the traditional sense, at least in general.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaywar*
> 
> Looking for some help. Looking for a DAC/Amp combo for my pc and macbook. I will be using primarily headphones, but would like the ability to set up a 2.1 system later on. Price range less than 500. Music taste is pretty broad. I do dabble in some BF3 now and again as well. Any suggestions would be more than welcome.


http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html
~$130 from a builder. Use with the PC or the Mac.

http://www.amarraaudio.com/
Buy Junior or MINI for $99 or $295 respectively. Use with the Mac.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Would rather go with the very good HRT Streamer II+ for ~$150 for the DAC and yes, O2 for the amp, built fully here: http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full

please be aware though that this is a purely headphone and 2.0 setup.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> "Tons" is kind of hard to say one way or the other. On one hand, they've got higher distortion than cheaper alternatives. On the other, in many cases it's probably still lower than people can hear in general.
> See here for some measurements of the Audio-GD discrete op amps, among other things:
> http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
> http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/index.html
> Again, I'd reiterate that most people have an overly op-amp and tube-centric view of sound quality. Circuits and overall design matter more. For that matter, the more worrying thing to me is in general the opinions expressed in their product pages / marketing literature:
> So they're proud of not using feedback? With feedback in pretty much any system (including audio ones), you can get better performance, higher linearity. So in audio, that means less distortion so less coloration, the opposite of...wait...what? etc.
> But of course there are many Audio-GD fans out there. If anything, they can offer a different sound than what you might get otherwise. As for whether or not that "different" means "better" to one listener, it's hard to say. Which sound you prefer is up to do. Anyway, they're not going for high fidelity in the traditional sense, at least in general.


This. I really need to clean up the guide of sorts but tbh, the 'rawness' of it when editing is daunting with all the forum code + length of it (thanks Simca!







)

I'll put in the constructed JDSLabs O2 as a recommendation later (driver test tommorow argh!!!!). Same for the HRT Streamer II as a USB DAC, with the usual warning of that it's only a DAC with 2 RCA inputs and nothing else.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Would rather go with the very good HRT Streamer II+ for ~$150 for the DAC and yes, O2 for the amp, built fully here: http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full
> please be aware though that this is a purely headphone and 2.0 setup.


Still leaves enough to squeeze in Amarra Junior, which is a pretty outstanding DSP.

Or PureMusic if you prefer.


----------



## Simca

I'm looking at the ODA and the O2 and wondering wth the difference is. ODA is the O2 without batteries? Is it gonna' use the same PCB? Is it going to use the same materials and have the same power?

That said, isn't the Streamer II+ 250 dollars or so? The Streamer II is 150.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

No, the ODA is supposed to also be a USB DAC that doesn't require any software, I guess that you can bypass that with the line in. Unlike the O2 the ODAC has a protection relay, RCA inputs, a 1/4 jack and a few other differences. I'm wondering what it'll end up costing.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> No, the ODA is supposed to also be a USB DAC that doesn't require any software, I guess that you can bypass that with the line in. Unlike the O2 the ODAC has a protection relay, RCA inputs, a 1/4 jack and a few other differences. I'm wondering what it'll end up costing.


So we're on the same page, ODA=Objective Desktop Amplifier. ODAC=Objective DAC, O2=Objective 2

That said, I don't think the ODA is supposed to also be a DAC. I think he merely said the ODAC can fit in the ODA or O2 enclosure.

The cost will be cheap, under 110 for the ODAC I think he said?


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> ODA + ODAC: What's an "ODAC"? It's a USB DAC designed the objective way-just like the O2 and ODA. It fits inside the ODA turning it into a desktop headphone DAC. Here's some preliminary information:


I didn't see that. Thats good to know.


----------



## VeRSeS

What's the best 7.1 surround sound speakers or studio monitors I can get for under 1,000$ USD. Id like to have good high quality vocals, deep clean bass, pretty much a professional sound studio sound without the mixing boards


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeRSeS*
> 
> What's the best 7.1 surround sound speakers or studio monitors I can get for under 1,000$ USD. Id like to have good high quality vocals, deep clean bass, pretty much a professional sound studio sound without the mixing boards


How big is your room?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Updated adding the Benchmark DAC 1, Fiio E7 and basically got rid of the Head-fi koolaid and replaced it with proven products for now. An OCN is pushing towards quality content, I must push this line of thinking. Products have to be proven via objective measurements for sources and amps for it to be included in the list. Social responsibility of sorts as well being Audio Editor that we recommend quality objectively proven products.
As the Objective DAC is not released yet, I can't include it at the moment as well, people need to be able to buy the thing!


----------



## Simca

It's on my list of Shtuff to buy ASAP.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Just bought two more pairs of B652 bookshelfs, some stands, and a Lepai TA2020 for testing.









My home theater now consists of two pairs of Pioneer 12" towers up front, and B652's for the center, sides, and rears. And of course my 550w RMS 12" Polk sub. It finally sounds pretty close to matching now.


----------



## VeRSeS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> How big is your room?


Um id say 20x20 give or take a few feet


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeRSeS*
> 
> What's the best *7.1 surround sound speakers* or studio monitors I can get for under 1,000$ USD. Id like to have good high quality vocals, deep clean bass, pretty much a professional sound studio sound without the mixing boards


I wouldn't recommend that.


----------



## lb_felipe

I don't know if someone has posted this. It's old but it serves to encourage those who don't have a large budget and are afraid to buy these cheap speakers.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005175-47.html


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> I don't know if someone has posted this. It's old but it serves to encourage those who don't have a large budget and are afraid to buy these cheap speakers.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005175-47.html


I've always been recommending those speakers for quite a while for people on a tighter budget.....

I'm soon to have 3 pairs of them myself.


----------



## Mygaffer

I want to make a recommendation for inexpensive computer speakers. I bought a pair to sell at the shop I work at and was really impressed by them. They can be found online for ~$40, sometimes less, and are the best sounding speakers in the price range I have heard.

http://www.amazon.com/NEW-SP-HF500A-Wood-Speakers-SPEAKERS/dp/B004CCJ33C

Really worth a look for anyone on a budget.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> I want to make a recommendation for inexpensive computer speakers. I bought a pair to sell at the shop I work at and was really impressed by them. They can be found online for ~$40, sometimes less, and are the best sounding speakers in the price range I have heard.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/NEW-SP-HF500A-Wood-Speakers-SPEAKERS/dp/B004CCJ33C
> 
> Really worth a look for anyone on a budget.


These are better.








http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116048


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> I've always been recommending those speakers for quite a while for people on a tighter budget.....
> I'm soon to have 3 pairs of them myself.


You indeed are the guy who brought us this precious advice. For the price, it is difficult to find anything better. Congratulations and thank you for actually useful recommendations in this forum.


----------



## swarm87

might want to update the OP as the xfi titanium has been discontinued according to newegg


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Does anyone here have some suggestions for rock/metal head phones around $100-200 that are closed unlike Grado?


----------



## Schmuckley

I'm going to recommend the cheap soundcard i just got..works great! I finally can utilize my surround-sound
headphones!

it's a..Sabrent6-channel 5.1 sound 3d pci sound card

link http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=sabrent+sound+card&hl=en&prmd=imvns&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1425&bih=853&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1659490798690173107&sa=X&ei=3TUxT5rRGYKftweQj72WBw&ved=0CIYBEOUNMAE


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> I'm going to recommend the cheap soundcard i just got..works great! I finally can utilize my surround-sound
> headphones!
> it's a..Sabrent6-channel 5.1 sound 3d pci sound card
> link http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=sabrent+sound+card&hl=en&prmd=imvns&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1425&bih=853&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1659490798690173107&sa=X&ei=3TUxT5rRGYKftweQj72WBw&ved=0CIYBEOUNMAE


Looks good for the price. Hopefully it doesn't break fast.


----------



## longroadtrip

Read the entire thread and would like some input on my budget HTPC. Currently using onboard Asus sound with Eagle Arion speakers and HTF600 Headphones.

Would like to upgrade to the following:
Asus D1 Soundcard
DTA-100a amp (will be using headphones off of this also)
1 pair B652 speakers
Dayton SUB-100 10" sub.

Primary use is movies, music, and a little gaming (couple hours a week)

Budget is $300-$350


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Read the entire thread and would like some input on my budget HTPC. Currently using onboard Asus sound with Eagle Arion speakers and HTF600 Headphones.
> Would like to upgrade to the following:
> Asus D1 Soundcard
> DTA-100a amp (will be using headphones off of this also)
> 1 pair B652 speakers
> Dayton SUB-100 10" sub.
> Primary use is movies, music, and a little gaming (couple hours a week)
> Budget is $300-$350


That is a very good setup for the total dollar amount (pioneerisloud would be proud







).


----------



## csm725

I'll be doing:
Polk Monitor30 II
Dayton DTA-100a
Dayton SUB-80 8"


----------



## CesarNYC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Read the entire thread and would like some input on my budget HTPC. Currently using onboard Asus sound with Eagle Arion speakers and HTF600 Headphones.
> Would like to upgrade to the following:
> Asus D1 Soundcard
> DTA-100a amp (will be using headphones off of this also)
> 1 pair B652 speakers
> Dayton SUB-100 10" sub.
> Primary use is movies, music, and a little gaming (couple hours a week)
> Budget is $300-$350


hey buddy, for that budget I think you could forgo the sub and sound card (nice upgrades) and get more bang with a little more dough on the speakers. If your going to place the speakers near to mid range, I would recommend the KRK Rokit 5s. They don't need an amp (depending on your source it helps though). For the price, they are pretty awesome. They get stoopid loud, and sound great for the price range. You can upgrade the other components on your chain later. Just an idea


----------



## longroadtrip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> That is a very good setup for the total dollar amount (pioneerisloud would be proud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


Thanks for the input!









The idea is to get me through this year until next December when I get my Christmas bonus. I know the B652s are a budget speaker, but for the price I'm not sure they can be beat. I wanted speakers I wouldn't be afraid to upgrade from. I'll eventually be upgrading the speakers to a better set in the $500 range...

Just about anything has to sound better than what I currently have...

Cesar....I thought about doing something similar, but I figured I would start with a good foundation by doing the soundcard and getting a solid amp...the speakers and sub are cheap enough (but apparently sound decent,)so I wouldn't be afraid to toss them once I get my bonus next December.


----------



## lb_felipe

Let's discuss about it:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/21742

What do you think about it?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Let's discuss about it:
> 
> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/21742
> 
> What do you think about it?


What is there to discuss? You'll obviously hear a larger difference because of your equipment rather than a sound card. A sound card is still viable for many reasons, including, but not limited to: Better SQ, better sound complexity, better gaming positioning etc..


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Read the entire thread and would like some input on my budget HTPC. Currently using onboard Asus sound with Eagle Arion speakers and HTF600 Headphones.
> 
> Would like to upgrade to the following:
> Asus D1 Soundcard
> DTA-100a amp (will be using headphones off of this also)
> 1 pair B652 speakers
> Dayton SUB-100 10" sub.
> 
> Primary use is movies, music, and a little gaming (couple hours a week)
> 
> Budget is $300-$350


Looks like a solid setup. I've got 4 pairs of B652's now on my 7.1 setup. Great budget speakers (my towers didn't match up right). So now I've got two 12" towers stacked as my fronts, and B652's as my center, sides, and rears. Almost tempted to buy another set to replace my 5 foot tall fronts, lol.

One tweak, try to get the SUB1000 or SUB1200 instead if possible. Even the SUB100 is fine, but the newer line looks like it should extend a little lower, and the larger sub WILL extend lower. Which is GREAT for movies.

One thing I would like to mention, you will be slightly disappointed in the headphones out on the amp if you want the headphones to be loud. It sounds great, but it doesn't get very loud with high impedance headphones. I switched to 24ohm headphones recently, and that made a HUGE difference in loudness (compared to my 48ohm JVC's).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> I'll be doing:
> Polk Monitor30 II
> Dayton DTA-100a
> Dayton SUB-80 8"


Glad you finally decided to give up those Cerwin bookshelfs.







They would've been fine if they were towers.


----------



## longroadtrip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Looks like a solid setup. I've got 4 pairs of B652's now on my 7.1 setup. Great budget speakers (my towers didn't match up right). So now I've got two 12" towers stacked as my fronts, and B652's as my center, sides, and rears. Almost tempted to buy another set to replace my 5 foot tall fronts, lol.
> One tweak, try to get the SUB1000 or SUB1200 instead if possible. Even the SUB100 is fine, but the newer line looks like it should extend a little lower, and the larger sub WILL extend lower. Which is GREAT for movies.
> One thing I would like to mention, you will be slightly disappointed in the headphones out on the amp if you want the headphones to be loud. It sounds great, but it doesn't get very loud with high impedance headphones. I switched to 24ohm headphones recently, and that made a HUGE difference in loudness (compared to my 48ohm JVC's).


I pretty much just use the headphones for gaming and late at night so the better half doesn't throw me out into the dog house...not really looking for loud, but more clarity than anything...noted on the sub, I'll adjust the order.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Looks like a solid setup. I've got 4 pairs of B652's now on my 7.1 setup. Great budget speakers (my towers didn't match up right). So now I've got two 12" towers stacked as my fronts, and B652's as my center, sides, and rears. Almost tempted to buy another set to replace my 5 foot tall fronts, lol.
> One tweak, try to get the SUB1000 or SUB1200 instead if possible. Even the SUB100 is fine, but the newer line looks like it should extend a little lower, and the larger sub WILL extend lower. Which is GREAT for movies.
> One thing I would like to mention, you will be slightly disappointed in the headphones out on the amp if you want the headphones to be loud. It sounds great, but it doesn't get very loud with high impedance headphones. I switched to 24ohm headphones recently, and that made a HUGE difference in loudness (compared to my 48ohm JVC's).
> 
> 
> 
> I pretty much just use the headphones for gaming and late at night so the better half doesn't throw me out into the dog house...not really looking for loud, but more clarity than anything...noted on the sub, I'll adjust the order.
Click to expand...

That's what I usually use mine for as well. Just make sure the headphones are as low of an impedance as possible. 48ohm or 32ohm should do fine off it.


----------



## longroadtrip

Pioneer...I used to live in Kennewick...not too far from you! Anyways, was just looking at the specs on the Sub-100 and the Sub-1000..the frequency responses are the same...what am I missing?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> I used to live in Kennewick...not too far from you! Anyways, was just looking at the specs on the Sub-100- and the Sub-1000..the frequency responses are the same...what am I missing?


Look at the driver itself on the SUB1000 vs. the SUB100. I haven't gotten to test any of the new line myself yet. But if you notice, the SUB1000 has a larger surround than the SUB100. Larger surround means the driver can move more. If it can move more, it should hit subsonic notes easier.

They both do stop at 30Hz, yes. But the 1000 can move more in theory, so it SHOULD do a better job extending lower than 30Hz than the 100 can.


----------



## longroadtrip

Gotcha...Still new to all of this...thanks again!


----------



## YangerD

What's a good pair of headphones to go along with an Asus Xonar DS/DG (still deciding). I'm an occasional gamer, I enjoy my music more. Budget around $100


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YangerD*
> 
> What's a good pair of headphones to go along with an Asus Xonar DS/DG (still deciding). I'm an occasional gamer, I enjoy my music more. Budget around $100


This isn't solely directed to you, but rather everyone asking similar questions: There's a huge write up with many suggestions even broken down into sections which makes it easier to pin-point the type of headphone you may want with the budget you have. You should probably look the thread over again if you're still confused about what to buy.

For under 100, I'd try to find an Ultrasone 580 (perhaps used now), or a new Samson SR850.


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Are there really no other head phones like Grado Labs for rock/metal that are closed? I want to listen to these at school.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> Are there really no other head phones like Grado Labs for rock/metal that are closed? I want to listen to these at school.


Phiaton MS 300


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Phiaton MS 300


Do they have one int the $150 max range







.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Phiaton MS 300
> 
> 
> 
> Do they have one int the $150 max range
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Used.


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Used.










I guess I'll just wait til I have the money.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Very little point in buying new when you can get a like-new used pair at a nice discount.


----------



## longroadtrip

One last quick question....I can get Polk Audio Monitor 30s on newegg for $80...would these be much better than the Dayton 652s?


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Very little point in buying new when you can get a like-new used pair at a nice discount.


Meh, I don't like to buy used things that go on my body.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> One last quick question....I can get Polk Audio Monitor 30s on newegg for $80...would these be much better than the Dayton 652s?


Yes and no. It depends on your ears. But for most people, the Monitor 30's are definitely better. They lack a little in midrange compared to the Daytons, but overall they make up for it.


----------



## longroadtrip

If they lack in midrange...then does that mean I'm going to get mainly the highs with the sub having to pick up the mid and the lows? I'm thinking these might be better for satellites instead of for a 2.1 setup


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> If they lack in midrange...then does that mean I'm going to get mainly the highs with the sub having to pick up the mid and the lows? I'm thinking these might be better for satellites instead of for a 2.1 setup


Oh no no no....they'll do fine on midrange. It's just the B652 will do it ever so slightly better due to having a larger woofer, and a sealed enclosure.

The Monitor 30's should sound a little bit cleaner overall as well.

Monitor 30's are generally a "bright" sounding speaker. That doesn't mean that they lack midrange, it just means that they have the bass and treble a little boosted.

The Daytons are a relatively flat sounding speaker, but with some accent on the treble, and they lack in bass response.

I would honestly rather go with the Monitor 30's. And I would have too if I could have afforded them again.


----------



## longroadtrip

I get what you are saying....I looked around today for a local place where I could listen to them and couldn't get to one...It's hard to order speakers without listening to them. Newegg has an addt'l $40 of promo code for them that expires tomorrow, so am trying to get as much info as I can about them. They seem like a good deal.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> I get what you are saying....I looked around today for a local place where I could listen to them and couldn't get to one...It's hard to order speakers without listening to them. Newegg has an addt'l $40 of promo code for them that expires tomorrow, so am trying to get as much info as I can about them. They seem like a good deal.


They are a good deal honestly.

Best Buy should carry them, and if not, the Polk speakers they DO carry with the 5.25" woofer will sound very similar. I think they either carry the Monitor 30's or the lower end TSi line. It's been a while since I went in there.


----------



## longroadtrip

Just pulled the trigger on the Polk Monitor 30s, DT-100a, and Sub-1000


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on the Polk Monitor 30s, DT-100a, and Sub-1000


Remember, Parts Express has a 45day satisfaction guarantee.







Newegg has 30 days.


----------



## longroadtrip

If I don't like them, I'll just throw them down in the woodshop...I was reading in one of the speaker threads about how people are building their own speakers...might give that a try once I know more about audio...


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> If I don't like them, I'll just throw them down in the woodshop...I was reading in one of the speaker threads about how people are building their own speakers...might give that a try once I know more about audio...


That works.









I redesigned my subwoofer enclosure. I gave up for now on custom enclosures though, as I lack the tools to do it right now. But its definitely fun and rewarding if you get it right.


----------



## longroadtrip

Ordered the Polk PSW10 sub that matches the monitor 30s...I'll try that and the Dayton Sub-1000 out. Whichever one I like I'll keep in the office and throw the other with some 652s into the shop.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Ordered the Polk PSW10 sub that matches the monitor 30s...I'll try that and the Dayton Sub-1000 out. Whichever one I like I'll keep in the office and throw the other with some 652s into the shop.


Ewwww.....PSW10.







I woulda just gotten two of the Daytons honestly. You'll easily find that you want the SUB1000 with your main speakers, and the PSW10 will hardly see use.


----------



## longroadtrip

Yeah..I wasn't sure, that is why I ordered both of them...It was only $89 after the promo code. If it's really that bad compared to the SUB1000, I can always return it or just put it down in the shop.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> Yeah..I wasn't sure, that is why I ordered both of them...It was only $89 after the promo code. If it's really that bad compared to the SUB1000, I can always return it or just put it down in the shop.


Honestly, if they charge you return shipping on it, you're better off just keeping it around as a spare somewhere. It's not horribad honestly, but it'll compare to the SUB80 in frequency response (not even the SUB800), with the SUB80 staying cleaner sounding.


----------



## longroadtrip

Yeah....worst case scenario, I throw it down in the shop with some 652s...


----------



## imakuzim

Hi guys, any thoughts about NHT Super One? Simca listed Super Zero as one of the nice products. The thing is I could get a 2nd Super One locally for 279$/pair.

Do you guys think this is a nice deal?

I was already eyeing with a Chorus 706s that comes with its stand for 581$.

Some other products I could possible get:
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/4636316/infinity+speakers+sm+85?referralKeywords=speaker#description
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/4450165/Polk+Audio+Speakers+RTi+A3+and+CSi+A4+%28Repriced%29?referralKeywords=speaker
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/1481134/PSB+SPEAKERS+%28stand+not+included%29?referralKeywords=speaker
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/4635042/speakers?referralKeywords=speaker#description
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/3463262/CERWIN+VEGA+BOOKSHELF+SPKR%2C+MADE+IN+USA?referralKeywords=bookshelf#description
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/4757583/MORDAUNT-SHORT+CARNIVAL+2+BOOKSHELF+SPEAKER?referralKeywords=bookshelf+speaker#description

Please please take a look at these products too and help me decided which would be best.
My amp is a DTA-100a and I plan to buy a subwoofer if needed.


----------



## rdfloyd

Simca recommended the Ultrasone 580s for me a few weeks ago, but since then they've jumped from $110 to $140. What gives? Anything else that is good in the $100 range?

Here's my thread with what I would like: http://www.overclock.net/t/1200175/75-100-to-spend-for-a-set-of-headphones/0_50


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdfloyd*
> 
> Simca recommended the Ultrasone 580s for me a few weeks ago, but since then they've jumped from $110 to $140. What gives? Anything else that is good in the $100 range?
> Here's my thread with what I would like: http://www.overclock.net/t/1200175/75-100-to-spend-for-a-set-of-headphones/0_50


Might want to wait for those prices to come down. Most of the Ultrasone headphones have cyclic prices. They go up, they go down and I'd estimate it's probably about every month or so that they hit a low point.


----------



## rdfloyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Might want to wait for those prices to come down. Most of the Ultrasone headphones have cyclic prices. They go up, they go down and I'd estimate it's probably about every month or so that they hit a low point.


Looking at some price trackers, they do change in price frequently. I have a few weeks until I am going to buy, but still,







.


----------



## rdfloyd

Sorry for double posting, but I'm torn between buying a Xonar DG and DS. The DG has a built in amp, which is definitely a plus, but the DS shares the same chip as the DX. Any thoughts between the two or is there no difference?


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdfloyd*
> 
> Sorry for double posting, but I'm torn between buying a Xonar DG and DS. The DG has a built in amp, which is definitely a plus, but the DS shares the same chip as the DX. Any thoughts between the two or is there no difference?


I don't know much about the DG, but I was extremely satisfied with my Xonar DS.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdfloyd*
> 
> Sorry for double posting, but I'm torn between buying a Xonar DG and DS. The DG has a built in amp, which is definitely a plus, but the DS shares the same chip as the DX. Any thoughts between the two or is there no difference?


I would go with the DS and use an external amp if you need one. The amps built into soundcards are not the best - not even close.


----------



## rdfloyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> I would go with the DS and use an external amp if you need one. The amps built into soundcards are not the best - not even close.


DS it is. Now I need to find one for a half decent price.


----------



## wanako

Woot! just got my Xonar DG yesterday to upgrade over onboard. What an upgrade it was!!


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> I would go with the DS and use an external amp if you need one. The amps built into soundcards are not the best - not even close.


The amps built into sound cards generally aren't as adequate as getting a full fledged headphone amplifier but they do the job for the most part.


----------



## HornetMaX

Hi all,

gamer's questions here (no no no, wait, don't flame me yet please







).

I've bought a pair of AKG GHS1 to be used for gaming over a Creative XtremeGamer.
Before I had a Creative Fatality (sigh !) headset and the sound quality improvement is very appreciable. To be honest, the fatality HS was not that bad, at least for gaming and for its price, but definitely not as good as the GHS1.

My issue is with the mic: either it picks up all the sounds (like mouse clicks) or you have to scream into it to be heard. It's annoying because when you chat in-game (with mumble, for example), the communication is activated by the voice, hence my mic makes my "channel" go on a lot (my mates hear my mouse clicks).

Definitely worse than the creative mic, for which I managed to find a setting (mic boost + 20db, mic level at max, ...) that was not picking up my mouse clicks and was still picking up my voice without screaming (me screaming at night, wife not happy).

Not sure if it's the mic quality or its fixed position (the creative one could be put very close to your mouth). Any DIY solution for this ?

In case i decide to go for a separate mic, what would be a good suggestion ? I just need it for gaming.

Thanks, MaX.


----------



## 161029

Can you add the Arx A1? I haven't seen anybody with them but I've read reviews on other planar speakers and I've gotten a pretty good impression of planar speakers and here you have one at $250. Arx A1b is $300 for those of you who want it.


----------



## Simca

I'm a fan of Planar speakers and headphones, but unfortunately I've never heard them, heard of them or anything so I can't recommend it.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm a fan of Planar speakers and headphones, but unfortunately I've never heard them, heard of them or anything so I can't recommend it.


Okay, but I still haven't seen anybody with planar speakers.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm a fan of Planar speakers and headphones, but unfortunately I've never heard them, heard of them or anything so I can't recommend it.


How can you be a fan if you've not experienced them?









The Arx A1 seems to marry a planar tweeter with a typical woofer. I imagine a standard ribbon tweeter + 4.5" woofer design would perform comparably or better.

I prefer dipole planars generally (e.g. the likes of Magnepan), but those are far more expensive and not for everyone. It definitely gives you the full planar experience.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm a fan of Planar speakers and headphones, but unfortunately I've never heard them, heard of them or anything so I can't recommend it.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you be a fan if you've not experienced them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arx A1 seems to marry a planar tweeter with a typical woofer. I imagine a standard ribbon tweeter + 4.5" woofer design would perform comparably or better.
> 
> I prefer dipole planars generally (e.g. the likes of Magnepan), but those are far more expensive and not for everyone. It definitely gives you the full planar experience.
Click to expand...

Because the Arx A1 is not the only planar speaker/headphone ever created. o.0

"I've never heard them" was referring to the Arx A1s. Not planar speakers in general.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Because the Arx A1 is not the only planar speaker/headphone ever created. o.0
> "I've never heard them" was referring to the Arx A1s. Not planar speaksers in general.


Oh. Read that out of context.


----------



## General Crumples

Do you think I should get a new soundcard to go along with some JVC RX700's? Currently using intergreted.


----------



## Munchkinpuncher

Very nice! Great list.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> Do you think I should get a new soundcard to go along with some JVC RX700's? Currently using intergreted.


Yes.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Yes.


(sigh) There goes my webcam.


----------



## General Crumples

What type of PCI slot do I need for the Asus Xonar? I have one slot open but I don't know what kind it is.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> What type of PCI slot do I need for the Asus Xonar? I have one slot open but I don't know what kind it is.


Which Xonar?
PCI: DG, DS, D1, D2, Essence ST
PCI Express: Xense, DX, D2X, Essence STX
USB: U1, U3, Essence One

All the PCI Express options are 1x slot width as you would expect, and would fit into any PCI Express slot.

_From top to bottom, PCI Express x4 (uncommon on consumer motherboards), PCI Express x16, PCI Express x1, PCI Express x16, PCI (old)_

If you're asking and you have no idea, you probably want the DG if you have a PCI slot open. USB is also fine. But if you were to want to drive headphones directly from the sound card, the Creative X-Fi Go! may be a little better than the Xonar U3. It depends on the headphones.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Which Xonar?
> PCI: DG, DS, D1, D2, Essence ST
> PCI Express: Xense, DX, D2X, Essence STX
> USB: U1, U3, Essence One
> All the PCI Express options are 1x slot width as you would expect, and would fit into any PCI Express slot.
> 
> _From top to bottom, PCI Express x4 (uncommon on consumer motherboards), PCI Express x16, PCI Express x1, PCI Express x16, PCI (old)_
> If you're asking and you have no idea, you probably want the DG if you have a PCI slot open. USB is also fine. But if you were to want to drive headphones directly from the sound card, the Creative X-Fi Go! may be a little better than the Xonar U3. It depends on the headphones.


It's the DG. I can't tell which PCI slot is which so here is a picture of the inside of my computer. It's the bottom one on the left bottom corner. I am getting the JVC 700's btw. Asus PCI 5.1 Xonar DG



Would I have to plug my headphones into the soundcard directly or could I use the front audio jacks?


----------



## mikeaj

Can you not see the picture and text I posted earlier? Aside from the meaningless color difference, the slot on your motherboard looks like the bottom of the five slots shown, which is a PCI slot. You're in luck.

You can use the jack on the sound card or use the front panel jack. You would need to disconnect the front panel audio header from the motherboard and plug it into the sound card, if you want to use the front panel. The front panel connection is more likely to pick up errant interference, clicks, hissing sounds, etc., but you're certainly free to try that.

Usually this goes without saying, but there also exist such things as 3.5mm TRS (normal headphone jack) extension cords that cost like $1 + $3 shipping or so, if you would find that convenient.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

In your motherboard manual it will tell you what the slots are. If you don't have it download the pdf or something. It might not hurt to read through it. There should be a cable in you case that says HD audio you can plug that into the sound card (the sound card manual will tell you where) and that will get your front audio jacks working. Although I never use the front panel since there is usually interference.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Can you not see the picture and text I posted earlier? Aside from the meaningless color difference, the slot on your motherboard looks like the bottom of the five slots shown, which is a PCI slot. You're in luck.
> You can use the jack on the sound card or use the front panel jack. You would need to disconnect the front panel audio header from the motherboard and plug it into the sound card, if you want to use the front panel. The front panel connection is more likely to pick up errant interference, clicks, hissing sounds, etc., but you're certainly free to try that.
> Usually this goes without saying, but there also exist such things as 3.5mm TRS (normal headphone jack) extension cords that cost like $1 + $3 shipping or so, if you would find that convenient.


Okay. Thanks a lot. Sorry. I could see the picture but I couldn't tell the difference because I have horrible perception


----------



## iARDAs

Does Superlux 668B come with a mic?


----------



## Buttnose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Does Superlux 668B come with a mic?


Nope, that would be a headset. If you want a mic to go with any headphones try the Zalman MIC-1 clip on or the Antlion modmic.

http://www.overclock.net/products/zalman-zm-mic1-high-sensitivity-headphone-microphone/reviews
http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buttnose*
> 
> Nope, that would be a headset. If you want a mic to go with any headphones try the Zalman MIC-1 clip on or the Antlion modmic.
> http://www.overclock.net/products/zalman-zm-mic1-high-sensitivity-headphone-microphone/reviews
> http://www.modmic.com/


Ah thank you for the answer.

I will first look for a good headset. If i cant find the one i want i will go with that solution for sure.

I will probably go with a Thermaltake Shock White or if i can spend the extra money a Asus Vulcan. Cant decide.

Edit : Actually a Superlux 668B + Zalman ZM-Mic1 might be a smart buy as a combo. Probably better than a single Thermaltake Shock. hmmmm


----------



## iARDAs

I ended up ordering a AKG GHS1 white

I wanted a headset over a headphone.

I hope it is a good choice.


----------



## rdfloyd

My Xonar DG comes in today (got it for $20 total). What drivers should I use? I've heard that the Asus drivers tend to be pretty crappy and that there are 3rd party ones that are much better. Suggestions?


----------



## RallyMaster

Asus drivers are fine.


----------



## rdfloyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Asus drivers are fine.


Thanks. +REP


----------



## wanako

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdfloyd*
> 
> Thanks. +REP


Yup. ASUS drivers tend to be pretty solid. You may be confusing them for Creative drivers. Now THEY had serious driver issues.
I have the DG and have no problems whatsoever. Enjoy your new card. It is SO worth it.


----------



## intelfan

Anyone know why the 555 model is so expensive? It's $170. Is it because they are discontinued?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> Anyone know why the 555 model is so expensive? It's $170. Is it because they are discontinued?


You're right. HD 515, 555, and 595 were replaced several months ago (not sure of the exact date but it's been a while) with HD 518, 558, and 598. For a while the prices of the old stuff dipped, to clear stock in many stores. Now they're just hard to find and expensive.


----------



## Onions

hey so im looking for earbuds... willing spend around 200 buckjs if its rly gonna benifit me. Ive done some reading and determined that i need somthing with bass .. not over powering.... but at the same time good all around clear sound. i came across these any advice would be great gonna purchase tm as i want them for wed


----------



## HornetMaX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I ended up ordering a AKG GHS1 white
> I wanted a headset over a headphone.
> I hope it is a good choice.


I got one two weeks ago (got an open-box one for half its price, 47 euros instead of 80-90 euros here in europe). Sound quality is ways better than my previous Creative Fatality headset. I use it for gaming only.

I've had hard time in setting up the mic with mumble (communication software I use in-game, similar to teamspeak or ventrilo).
Without the +20dB boost, the mic is useless. With the +20dB boost, it picks up the tiniest noise (including mouse clicks) and has a fair amount of background noise. Not sure if the issue is just on my mic, on all the mics or maybe even in my soundcard (creative xtreme gamer).
Sometimes when playing with the windows sound settings I get a huge echo/larsen. Funny thing is that this seems to go away if I disable CMSS-3D, whatever. I've also found that using ASIO instead of WASAPI (mumble allows that) is better in terms of mic result.

The supra-aural doesn't bother me too much: painful the first 2 days, fine after that (I do 3 hours sessions).
Build quality is very good, it does look nice (I got the white one, but I'd have preferred the black one probably).

MaX.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HornetMaX*
> 
> I got one two weeks ago (got an open-box one for half its price, 47 euros instead of 80-90 euros here in europe). Sound quality is ways better than my previous Creative Fatality headset. I use it for gaming only.
> I've had hard time in setting up the mic with mumble (communication software I use in-game, similar to teamspeak or ventrilo).
> Without the +20dB boost, the mic is useless. With the +20dB boost, it picks up the tiniest noise (including mouse clicks) and has a fair amount of background noise. Not sure if the issue is just on my mic, on all the mics or maybe even in my soundcard (creative xtreme gamer).
> Sometimes when playing with the windows sound settings I get a huge echo/larsen. Funny thing is that this seems to go away if I disable CMSS-3D, whatever. I've also found that using ASIO instead of WASAPI (mumble allows that) is better in terms of mic result.
> The supra-aural doesn't bother me too much: painful the first 2 days, fine after that (I do 3 hours sessions).
> Build quality is very good, it does look nice (I got the white one, but I'd have preferred the black one probably).
> MaX.


Hey thanks for the response bro. I am glad that the sound quality is great, and i am hoping that the mic will also be good, but of course i am not expecting something amazing. I dont use the mic all the time and i always use PUSH TO TALK button for ingame communications. I am hoping to map that feature in games to an unused gaming mouse button.

I will not have the headset before 1 week since it needs to be shipped from USA.

I have a creative xfi titanium soundcard and i hope i dont run into any problems with this setup. If i get an echo i will disable CMSS3D as well.

The thing about CMSS3D is that it is a very useful feature and DOES THE JOB briliantly however the sound quality feels a bit mechanical with the current headset i am using,

I am not bother with the design, i am sure i will get used to it. I hope so.

One question. Do you hear sounds from your surroundings when you use this headphone? The reason i did not get a closed headphone is that i actually want to hear my surroundings at home. Wife might need something any minute at night, and hopefully in a year we will have a baby so i can hear him/her cry. I dont want to be isolated.


----------



## HornetMaX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I have a creative xfi titanium soundcard and i hope i dont run into any problems with this setup.


Let me know how the GHS1 worrks with your titanium, as I'm looking at the xfi titanium as an upgrade from my old xtreme gamer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> If i get an echo i will disable CMSS3D as well.
> The thing about CMSS3D is that it is a very useful feature and DOES THE JOB briliantly however the sound quality feels a bit mechanical with the current headset i am using,


No, the echo won't be a problem. I only have it if I ask windows to "listen to the mic" (i.e. to play in the headphones what the mic picks up). I guess it's due to the mic being very sensitive (with +20dB) and to the fact that some sound leaks off the headphone. CMSS-3D is good for gaming.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> One question. Do you hear sounds from your surroundings when you use this headphone? The reason i did not get a closed headphone is that i actually want to hear my surroundings at home. Wife might need something any minute at night, and hopefully in a year we will have a baby so i can hear him/her cry. I dont want to be isolated.


Glad to see that on top of same CPU, similar motherboard, similar soundcard and same headset, we also share the same wife-related issues







I also need to keep an ear over my sleeping kids









Compared to my previous headset (closed and circum aural) it seems to me I hear less the outside sounds, but thast may just be me playing with a too high volume, now that the sound quality is good









MaX.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> hey so im looking for earbuds... willing spend around 200 buckjs if its rly gonna benifit me. Ive done some reading and determined that i need somthing with bass .. not over powering.... but at the same time good all around clear sound. i came across these any advice would be great gonna purchase tm as i want them for wed


In-ears or earbuds?

The TF10s are okay. I can't say they're worth more than $150 though (I own a pair), let alone the price the eBay seller is charging (it's $165 on Amazon right now BTW).


----------



## Onions

ok ill check that out do you like yours tho?


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> ok ill check that out do you like yours tho?


They're my secondaries but every now and then, I get the urge to listen to them. The TF10s are a money pit. You'll spend money on tips to get it to fit, cables to get it to fit and sound better and eventually custom molding. I have the Fiio RC-UE1 cable and a bunch of tips from several different earphones that I've purchased over the years and still, the TF10 hasn't gotten to the point where it's satisfactory compared to my other upper echelon earphones like the Westone UM3X RC and the Sennheiser IE80.


----------



## The_Hairy_Yak

Would anyone mind comparing a pair of M-Audio BX5a's and a pair of Infinity Primus 152's or 162's (@ 80watt) ?

I had the BX5a hooked up via a Xonar DX but decided to buy a receiver to upgrade towards a 5.1 setup. So right now I have it setup DX -> optical -> receiver -> preamp -> BX5a which is pretty unnecessary, but I have the receiver so I said why not







. Now to further upgrade my system I'm looking to get new speakers as I do not really have a need for a sub atm (bass disrupts the rest of the house :/) price is around the infinities would be the goal but would like to get the clearest bookshelves possible, speakers driving specs do not matter as once I need the upgrade I will get a new receiver. Thanks!


----------



## wompwomp

What are the differences between the Superlux 668B and the Samson SR850?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> What are the differences between the Superlux 668B and the Samson SR850?


The Samson SR850 is a Superlux OEM. They do share the same drivers and have a similar sound.
Depending on where your from the price would reflect on what you get.

I own the 668B, and just love the near flat sound it produce. Music and gaming have a clear definition of sound, with a almost true studio feel. Like the way it should sound, right from the studio.


----------



## wompwomp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The Samson SR850 is a Superlux OEM. They do share the same drivers and have a similar sound.
> Depending on where your from the price would reflect on what you get.
> I own the 668B, and just love the near flat sound it produce. Music and gaming have a clear definition of sound, with a almost true studio feel. Like the way it should sound, right from the studio.


I see. How's the bass on your 668B's? I listen to a lot of trance and dubstep so bass is kind of a must.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> I see. How's the bass on your 668B's? I listen to a lot of trance and dubstep so bass is kind of a must.


Its not like Beats headphone, where it designed to enhance the bass, so you dont get the true sound.
I do get bass from the 668B, but not heartbeat bass type. If I want more bass, then I can adjust the EQ.
Thats the point of a near-flat headphones. Not one part is defined in High/Mid/Low.

You adjust how you like it. I dont use EQ at all, as I like to hear what the music is really like.

This is where I get my Superlux headphones.
http://www.pawmusic.com/collections/headphones
There is other version, so read up on them.


----------



## golfergolfer

I dont want to barge in on anyone's conversations going on here but I am strongly looking in to getting a set of Swan M10's but the bass is a little weak on them according to multiple reviews. So I am bass kind of guy. Really enjoy my full deep shaking bass but this set up wont give it to me (according to reviews) I was just wondering what are some peoples opinions on this? Is it lacking in bass or can you just turn the sub all the way up and it be all ok? I am planning on buying a Titanium HD sound card to go with this but is it too much of a card? Should I just go with something a bit less and spend more on speakers? Just wondering about what some thoughts out there are







Thanks in advance


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> I dont want to barge in on anyone's conversations going on here but I am strongly looking in to getting a set of Swan M10's but the bass is a little weak on them according to multiple reviews. So I am bass kind of guy. Really enjoy my full deep shaking bass but this set up wont give it to me (according to reviews) I was just wondering what are some peoples opinions on this? Is it lacking in bass or can you just turn the sub all the way up and it be all ok? I am planning on buying a Titanium HD sound card to go with this but is it too much of a card? Should I just go with something a bit less and spend more on speakers? Just wondering about what some thoughts out there are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


It's got a what, 4" or a 5.25" driver in the "subwoofer". Yeah, its going to lack in bass response. But it should sound fairly clean.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> It's got a what, 4" or a 5.25" driver in the "subwoofer". Yeah, its going to lack in bass response. But it should sound fairly clean.


Hmm true but then what is the size of sub that would give me that full deep feeling? Also would having this on your desk make that bass more? Like more of a punch to it?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> It's got a what, 4" or a 5.25" driver in the "subwoofer". Yeah, its going to lack in bass response. But it should sound fairly clean.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm true but then what is the size of sub that would give me that full deep feeling? Also would having this on your desk make that bass more? Like more of a punch to it?
Click to expand...

A real sub should be on the floor, preferrably in a corner (whichever corner it sounds best in in your room). 8" or bigger would give you that really deep nice "punch" that you're after.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> A real sub should be on the floor, preferrably in a corner (whichever corner it sounds best in in your room). 8" or bigger would give you that really deep nice "punch" that you're after.


Hmm I got a huge sub for our actual entertainment system deal... But if anyone has used this before please feel free to comment on what you think about the sub on the M10's. Also what do you think about the sound card? good choice or could I get away with a Asus card? The $82 one?


----------



## nifatech2120

A question for anyone willing to answer. I'm currently using Cyber Acoustics platinum series 2.1 channel set. (not the greatest i know. but it's a damn good one for the price though)

And i'm using my ASRock Z68 Extreme3 gen3's onboard sound. And i want to know what would be a good $40 or so internal sound card to atleast boost my overall sound quality and fidelity...

I mostly care about gaming sound.. Doesn't have to be perfect for music. But if it has decent midrange. That will be good.

So 50/50 gaming and music. Just a simply and half-decent upgrade from my onboard sound that offers a balance of sound quality and flexibility of gaming and music quality.

Any suggestions?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Try to find an Asus Xonar DG or DS, both should be around that price. Both are very solid options.


----------



## nifatech2120

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Try to find an Asus Xonar DG or DS, both should be around that price. Both are very solid options.


So even though my speakers arn't the best. I should notice a difference with a dedicated sound card?

Also. Which one would you suggest?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nifatech2120*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Try to find an Asus Xonar DG or DS, both should be around that price. Both are very solid options.
> 
> 
> 
> So even though my speakers arn't the best. I should notice a difference with a dedicated sound card?
> 
> Also. Which one would you suggest?
Click to expand...

Honestly, no you probably will notice no difference aside from having an EQ that you can customize.

I'd say grab a bettter set of speakers first. If you're on a strict $40 ish budget, I'd recommend these first:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116048

Then step up into a Xonar sound card later on. Even the lowest end (the DG) is still a huge upgrade over onboard audio honestly, and its just fine of a budget sound card. It beats my "fake" X-Fi easily, and I notice a huge difference with that.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Updated it a tad, adding Microlab as a recommended brand of active speaker for non-US residents, and gaming / computer part brand branded headphones generally being trash and the exceptions to that rule due to OEMing.


----------



## The_Hairy_Yak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Hmm I got a huge sub for our actual entertainment system deal... But if anyone has used this before please feel free to comment on what you think about the sub on the M10's. Also what do you think about the sound card? good choice or could I get away with a Asus card? The $82 one?


I currently run a Xonar DX and I can't imagine seeing much improvement over it, everything is crystal. When looking at a speaker setup you need to ask yourself what you REALLY REALLY want, bass is cool and all, but crystal clear mids and highs that make you totally forget the speakers are even there are my cake. I bought a pair of BX5a's with a DX and I was DEVASTATED by how much there is truly to offer in the clarity of audio. My advice is to not buy an all in one setup if your budget allows for it. If you can get a wicked sound card along with a sub with enough punch for your liking, you are then free to upgrade your speakers at will. Whether the speakers are active, or you decide to go the passive + receiver/amp path, you will be much happier with your audio setup. I have my BX5a's and wanted to add rears so I picked up a receiver on sale for $130 (80w/channel). I now have 2 infinity primus 163's coming in the mail and will be running Xonar DX -> optic -> receiver -> x2 infinity primus 163 fronts and x2 BX5a as rears







. No need for a sub yet with those 6" drivers.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The_Hairy_Yak*
> 
> I currently run a Xonar DX and I can't imagine seeing much improvement over it, everything is crystal. When looking at a speaker setup you need to ask yourself what you REALLY REALLY want, bass is cool and all, but crystal clear mids and highs that make you totally forget the speakers are even there are my cake. I bought a pair of BX5a's with a DX and I was DEVASTATED by how much there is truly to offer in the clarity of audio. My advice is to not buy an all in one setup if your budget allows for it. If you can get a wicked sound card along with a sub with enough punch for your liking, you are then free to upgrade your speakers at will. Whether the speakers are active, or you decide to go the passive + receiver/amp path, you will be much happier with your audio setup. I have my BX5a's and wanted to add rears so I picked up a receiver on sale for $130 (80w/channel). I now have 2 infinity primus 163's coming in the mail and will be running Xonar DX -> optic -> receiver -> x2 infinity primus 163 fronts and x2 BX5a as rears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . No need for a sub yet with those 6" drivers.


As much as I love my crystal clear mids and highs I do really love my bass in the background







I have now been looking at the Corsair SP2500 simply because I know that Corsair makes reputable products, this set has been recommended, and last but not least the sub is huge! Does anyone know about how they sound though and if the sub really does put out some nice sound? I am not really sure if I would need a sound card with this set... Of course they do make a difference (soundcard) but I am on a budget and I am not sure if it is a necessity since I am going after a bit more of the bass in my music. However I do still want the nice clean sound quality







Comments?


----------



## Simca

SP2500 sub isn't that great.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> SP2500 sub isn't that great.


Really??? even though it is so large? is there any strong bass 2.1 systems out there for around the same price?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> SP2500 sub isn't that great.
> 
> 
> 
> Really??? even though it is so large? is there any strong bass 2.1 systems out there for around the same price?
Click to expand...

It's only a dinky little Tang Band 8" driver. It "claims" down to 35Hz, but I highly doubt that it passes much below 50Hz even, and its far from being a clean sounding sub since the crossover is at about 250Hz or so according to reviews.

If you don't mind mid bass only, and really distorted sound, and a directional subwoofer where you can hear voices coming through it (you're not supposed to by the way....), then the SP2500 is fine. Same with the Promedia's. Any multimedia PC speaker set is going to have the same issues, as they all use just about the same dinky little tiny speakers.


----------



## youra6

I'm thinking about giving the FA-003 a try. Anyone else?


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> I'm thinking about giving the FA-003 a try. Anyone else?


I thought about a Fischer Audio headphone before buying my Ultrasone PRO550 but concluded "Not sure if can trust them Russians."


----------



## mikeaj

I haven't really followed the story, but I think most Fischer Audio stuff is hard to find outside of Russia and the Brainwavz HM5 (currently in pre-order phase with shipments within the month?) looks to be the same thing? Or is it not?

http://mp4nation.net/catalog/brainwavz-hm5-studio-monitor-headphones-preorder-p-663.html

It's pretty much the exact same looks and listed specs, anyhow. As usual with different rebrands, there may be slight differences? Anybody know more?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Really??? even though it is so large? is there any strong bass 2.1 systems out there for around the same price?


There is nothing in that price range to give you better sub. You need to move up in the $400 range to get that.
This is where you start to look at a external DAC, a powered sub and some bookshelf speakers.

Even a receiver with tower speakers will do better.


----------



## replicant21

I just ordered the Swan M50 set. I am currently using onboard audio. What sound card should I look to be purchasing. I have about $200 of the $500 left that I wanted to spend on speakers/sound card. Thanks!


----------



## randomnerd865

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *replicant21*
> 
> I just ordered the Swan M50 set. I am currently using onboard audio. What sound card should I look to be purchasing. I have about $200 of the $500 left that I wanted to spend on speakers/sound card. Thanks!


x-fi titanium is pretty good for the price a grabbed a refurb on new egg for like 70 bucks and I love this tread I just stumbled upon it


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> I haven't really followed the story, but I think most Fischer Audio stuff is hard to find outside of Russia and the Brainwavz HM5 (currently in pre-order phase with shipments within the month?) looks to be the same thing? Or is it not?
> http://mp4nation.net/catalog/brainwavz-hm5-studio-monitor-headphones-preorder-p-663.html
> It's pretty much the exact same looks and listed specs, anyhow. As usual with different rebrands, there may be slight differences? Anybody know more?


No I don't but I'm very interested.


----------



## Sxcerino

Does anyone know if these suggested sound cards (or HT Omegas not on the list) support switching between headphones and speakers?

I'm looking to keep both speakers and headset plugged in at all times, and was wondering if there was a way to switch them via software. (So I don't have to bend down and yeah..)

Thanks!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Does anyone know if these suggested sound cards (or HT Omegas not on the list) support switching between headphones and speakers?
> I'm looking to keep both speakers and headset plugged in at all times, and was wondering if there was a way to switch them via software. (So I don't have to bend down and yeah..)
> Thanks!


My Asus Xonar STX can switch via there software. Change from headphone to speaker.
My speakers and headphone/mic is plugged in the rear of the soundcard. Dont like front, crappy cables from front.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> My Asus Xonar STX can switch via there software. Change from headphone to speaker.
> My speakers and headphone/mic is plugged in the rear of the soundcard. Dont like front, crappy cables from front.


Thanks.

Did you install the Op-amp upgrade on your card? If so, is it noticeable?

I'm not sure how you setup your speakers / headphones, but i'm trying to setup a logitech x-540 and a beyerdynamic 990 premium on it, do you think it will work as intended? Also, since I haven't gotten my headphones yet, do you think it will drive a 600 ohm one no problem, or should I order a lower ohm one?

Thanks again!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Thanks.
> Did you install the Op-amp upgrade on your card? If so, is it noticeable?
> I'm not sure how you setup your speakers / headphones, but i'm trying to setup a logitech x-540 and a beyerdynamic 990 premium on it, do you think it will work as intended? Also, since I haven't gotten my headphones yet, do you think it will drive a 600 ohm one no problem, or should I order a lower ohm one?
> Thanks again!


The Xonar STX has built in headphone amp. You can set the gain for 600 ohm.
The rear connectors had dedicated headphone/Mic output. 6.5mm plugs.
One set of RCA outputs and a digital coaxial output.

I didnt the Op-Amp upgrade, just didnt find the time and which ones I would go for.

As for your speakers, the Xonar STX will not work for you. Analog stereo Left/right or digital coaxial input is need to use this sound card for speakers.
Plus if your using headphones, 5.1 is not needed, unless its your main movie center. Thats when a good 2.0/2.1 with analog would shine here.


----------



## Amo

Hey guys, I read and really enjoyed the guide; however I'm struggling with finding a good headset after reading it. I'm looking for a good circumaural headset for gaming at around $120-150 but there isn't anything within that range recommended. If I had the money I would definitely go for the PC360s, but they're about $100 too much, and I don't really like headsets that sit on my ears.

The only thing I found was the Tritton AX720s but they don't really float my boat. Are there any good headsets within the price range?


----------



## Joell28

amo check out the razer megalodon if u are intressed in a headset ive enjoyed them alot.

i'm thinking about getting a :Ultrasone Pro 750s

but when i try to look for em in my country i get these
(these in dutch i just link em to show they picture/name)
http://www.redcoon.nl/B219720-Ultrasone-Pro750_Hoofdbeugels?refId=vergelijk]
http://www.hoofdtelefoonstore.nl/product/165195/ultrasone-pro-750-soflack-coating.html?ref=2530&utm_source=vergelijk&utm_medium=pricecomparison

as u can see the names/picture are diverent but there both 750's

whats Soflack Coating ?

and are the:
http://www.redcoon.nl/B190851-Ultrasone-PRO900_Studio

realy that much beter?

http://www.redcoon.nl/B237489-Ultrasone-Pro-2900_Studio

and are : realy that much beter?

and seems to also be a Balanced version of the 900 + 2900 on these websites
i got no idea what that stuff even means :>


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The Xonar STX has built in headphone amp. You can set the gain for 600 ohm.
> The rear connectors had dedicated headphone/Mic output. 6.5mm plugs.
> One set of RCA outputs and a digital coaxial output.
> I didnt the Op-Amp upgrade, just didnt find the time and which ones I would go for.
> As for your speakers, the Xonar STX will not work for you. Analog stereo Left/right or digital coaxial input is need to use this sound card for speakers.
> Plus if your using headphones, 5.1 is not needed, unless its your main movie center. Thats when a good 2.0/2.1 with analog would shine here.


Thanks.

Yeah I don't really like wearing headphones unless it's for music.

How about the Asus Xonar DX, would it work for my setup? I see that it's highly recommended in here.

I'm not ready to retire my 540s yet, thats why I dont want to invest in a analog 2.1 yet.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

The DX no way to plug both speakers + headphones in the rear and leave it there.
Its the same with the DG.
I dislike front audio, as the cables suck and not shielded, which will degrade the quality of sound on those nice headphones.

Other option is to use onboard for your speakers and a external DAC for your headphones.
Like a Dayton, lepai, topping, Fiio for your headphones.
Or
Scrap your Logitech 540s, get the STX and a nice 2.0/2.1 speakers.
But with that, the external DAC will still be cheaper and nicer.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The DX no way to plug both speakers + headphones in the rear and leave it there.
> Its the same with the DG.
> I dislike front audio, as the cables suck and not shielded, which will degrade the quality of sound on those nice headphones.
> Other option is to use onboard for your speakers and a external DAC for your headphones.
> Like a Dayton, lepai, topping, Fiio for your headphones.
> Or
> Scrap your Logitech 540s, get the STX and a nice 2.0/2.1 speakers.
> But with that, the external DAC will still be cheaper and nicer.


Thanks for your help.

For comparison sake, would you prefer a Fiio's E10 or Asus Xonar Esssence ST/X? For a pair of headphones that is.


----------



## General Crumples

My friend has a gigabyte 970a-ud3 mobo. I don't know how the sound is on it

what soundcard and headphones would be a good upgrade? He plays FPS and RPG/RTS's.

he was thinking of the "Vantec UGT-S100 7.1" but a 7.1 sound card for $30ish doesn't sound right.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> For comparison sake, would you prefer a Fiio's E10 or Asus Xonar Esssence ST/X? For a pair of headphones that is.


The FiiO E10 has a hard time with high ohm headphones. Good for upto 300 ohms, even at that, the volume would be at 50% to have anything.
Just not enough power to drive what you have.

What you need is the Fiio E9 instead, which is $110.
Xonar STX is $200.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> My friend has a gigabyte 970a-ud3 mobo. I don't know how the sound is on it
> what soundcard and headphones would be a good upgrade? He plays FPS and RPG/RTS's.
> he was thinking of the "Vantec UGT-S100 7.1" but a 7.1 sound card for $30ish doesn't sound right.


Your onboard would be better than that Vantec sound garbage. Better off with the Xonar DG for that price range. least the Xonar has a headphone Amp.


----------



## Sxcerino

Isn't the E9 only an Amp? Would I not need a DAC as well?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Isn't the E9 only an Amp? Would I not need a DAC as well?


Yes your right., you can add the Fiio E7 $85
The E10 has line in, but you will need the line out from the soundcard for your speakers.
Or from any other source can be used.

Because of the type of connections you need from your speakers, you have limited choices.

There is the Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T Digital Mini Amplifier 50 WPC.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383
You need a source, but the DAC is built in. Still your speakers will require the line out.

Now the Dayton, is an amp, that can power bookshelf speakers. That way you can plug in your headphone in the front when you want to use it, unplug for the speakers.
You can stick with onboard sound for your source.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Yes your right., you can add the Fiio E7 $85
> The E10 has line in, but you will need the line out from the soundcard for your speakers.
> Or from any other source can be used.
> Because of the type of connections you need from your speakers, you have limited choices.
> There is the Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T Digital Mini Amplifier 50 WPC.
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383
> You need a source, but the DAC is built in. Still your speakers will require the line out.
> Now the Dayton, is an amp, that can power bookshelf speakers. That way you can plug in your headphone in the front when you want to use it, unplug for the speakers.
> You can stick with onboard sound for your source.


I see;

Thanks for your help!


----------



## delow

Am interested in the HRT Streamer II would I be able to connect it to my book shelf stereo? it looks like it would connect using USB to my computer to get the sound then the 2 RCA outputs from the HRT to my stereo? nothing else needed right?

Am getting stutter in game using my xonar dg card so am looking to ditch it all together for this HRT I mainly listen to music anyway


----------



## longroadtrip

delow...you are correct. You could just use the RCA out of the HRT Streamer to the stereo...


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delow*
> 
> Am interested in the HRT Streamer II would I be able to connect it to my book shelf stereo? it looks like it would connect using USB to my computer to get the sound then the 2 RCA outputs from the HRT to my stereo? nothing else needed right?
> Am getting stutter in game using my xonar dg card so am looking to ditch it all together for this HRT I mainly listen to music anyway


The DG, do you have GX enabled in the software. If yes, then turn it off. It has been known to do that.
There have been updates for the software, you can try this.
The games that is happening, is it all of them or just some.

What kind of stereo do you have?
Analog RCA to your system will work fine.


----------



## delow

Yep GX is disabled it's usually just a few games like Dead Space 2 it wasnt until I removed the card today that it became smooth the stutter was really bad

I have a Panasonic bookshelf stereo I wasnt able to find the specs online but it sounds good with CD's so am hoping the HRT streamer will make my sketchy dubstep mp3's sound good


----------



## iARDAs

Thanks to this thread I got myself a very good headset.

My AKG GHS1 headset just arrived today and i am loving it so far. I bought it for a 80 bucks so price/performance this is a great headset.

+ Looks great
+ Sounds great
+ Bass is good

- Mic can detect mouse clicks or keyboard strokes.

I have a question regarding mumble and teamspeak guys.

How can i use teamspeak 3 while I am playing a game. Do i have to quit the game write the server IP and login? Is there a way i can do that without quitting a game?


----------



## Amo

AFAIK you can run teamspeak along with a game. When I use it I just alt+tab between the two. You can also adjust mic sensitivity within teamspeak so it doesn't pick up the quiet stuff.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amo*
> 
> AFAIK you can run teamspeak along with a game. When I use it I just alt+tab between the two. You can also adjust mic sensitivity within teamspeak so it doesn't pick up the quiet stuff.


Thank you for the response. I will give ALT TAB a try but in the past sometimes my games used to crash when I did it so i will be caustious.

In teamspeak 3 settings i saw something called Teamspeak Overlay but it says when that feature is activated, some games consider this to be cheating so I am wondering if i should give it a go or not.


----------



## Amo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Thank you for the response. I will give ALT TAB a try but in the past sometimes my games used to crash when I did it so i will be caustious.
> In teamspeak 3 settings i saw something called Teamspeak Overlay but it says when that feature is activated, some games consider this to be cheating so I am wondering if i should give it a go or not.


The overlay is just a list that tells you who is talking at that time. The mic sensitivity should be a slider under the microphone/input section. If your games are crashing just set up teamspeak before you start to game and then leave it on when you start.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amo*
> 
> The overlay is just a list that tells you who is talking at that time. The mic sensitivity should be a slider under the microphone/input section. If your games are crashing just set up teamspeak before you start to game and then leave it on when you start.


Thank you once again my friend. I will try the ALT TABBING now in Bf3 and see how it will work out








Of course best is to set it up before a game with friends.


----------



## TinDaDragon

The JVC HARX 700 just went up to $70. Do you guys think it's going to go down back to $33?


----------



## General Crumples

holy crap why did the JVC700's price go from $40 to $70 suddenly?


----------



## Gamingnub

Limited stock.


----------



## TinDaDragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamingnub*
> 
> Limited stock.


Yea, the last of the $33 went out of stock on amazon. 10 seconds later, the $70 one came up.
I bought it somewhere else for $40. Meh


----------



## GenoWhirl

on what store or deal can I can a corsair 2500SP for around $160 they are list everywhere for around $230 plus


----------



## staryoshi

I'm trying to find a supra-aural (Behind the head) wireless headset in the sub-$150 range... is it a lost cause?







My best bet so far looks like the H760 @ $63, as I REALLY like the shape of the headset. It won't be hard to step up from my Logitech Premium Notebook headset









Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Nebacanezer

Wow, just got here from another post. I am truly glad I stumbled across this. Great guide with awesome information in it along with prices. Just what I need


----------



## Billy_5110

got some advice to ask.

Here is my current audio setup:

Sony MDR XB-500 for music, movies and every stuff.
Tritton PC 510 ( check them out to understand my question) for gaming
Klipsch promedia 2.1 THx as speaker for both uses.

I'm almost 19 and i think it's a not-so-bad setup imo.

Now THE question. I think i should have a decent sound card in my system. But i can't find the good one and maybe someone could help me.

I would prefer x1 connecter due to my motherboard setup, no ''real limit budget'' as it should make a true difference.
I like deep bass for hardstyle and dubstep. But also id like to deliver the full potential of my 5.1 Tritton headset ( would it work if it has one usb connecter and 4 audio jack connecters? i think only power is drawn from usb)

I like Asus overall quality so it's a must for me. I accept any other great rated brand.

I find Xonar ST/STX pretty nice but i need pink,black,green and orange 3.5mm jack for my Tritton PC510...

I don't know if i should searh for special connctors on the io but a normal 5-6 jack should do it?

If possible, lowest cost would be great, but if i need to invest 150ish for a real difference then i don't have problem with it.

I got some basis in audio quality but not enough to get the most decent sound card for my use. That's why i'm posting here.

Thanks to the one('s) that will take their time to help me







Really appreciated.

EDIT: The Asus Xonar DX may be the one i'm searching for?


----------



## MoMann

For the Denon D2000's do you need a AMP or something to go with this? I plan on using it with my phone.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoMann*
> 
> For the Denon D2000's do you need a AMP or something to go with this? I plan on using it with my phone.


The Denons have pretty low impedance for fullsize headphones, but they're pretty sensitive and have pretty flat impedance over frequency; this means they don't need too much voltage or current, and most anything should work okay with it. Of course, a better amp isn't going to hurt any, but you should be fine with the phone. Do note that they don't isolate nearly as well as many other closed headphones though.


----------



## MoMann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> The Denons have pretty low impedance for fullsize headphones, but they're pretty sensitive and have pretty flat impedance over frequency; this means they don't need too much voltage or current, and most anything should work okay with it. Of course, a better amp isn't going to hurt any, but you should be fine with the phone. Do note that they don't isolate nearly as well as many other closed headphones though.


Yeah I actually made a thread but thanks I'm going to get the headphones first then maybe the e7


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoMann*
> 
> Yeah I actually made a thread but thanks I'm going to get the headphones first then maybe the e7


No, get a E17. It does much better. The E7 works better with the E9 though, but the E17 will be able to power the AH-D2000's.


----------



## General Crumples

On Amazon the Panasonic HTF600's went down to $25. Should I get get those or save my money for some Sampson sr850s or the Harx700


----------



## Simca

Save 15 for the SR850s.


----------



## rdfloyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> On Amazon the Panasonic HTF600's went down to $25. Should I get get those or save my money for some Sampson sr850s or the Harx700


Get the 850s. I've got mine paired with a DG, and they sound incredible. You will want to look into new pads though. These ones are hard and get really hot (sweat).


----------



## General Crumples

how about the Sr850's compared to the JVC 700's


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Xonar DX and Modded HA RX-900's be a good combo?
use the RX-900's for music and Razers for Gaming...

onboard sound on the RX-900's are loud... but the Razer's even with volume at 100% its not even half of what the RX-900's volume is...


----------



## toyz72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> Xonar DX and Modded HA RX-900's be a good combo?
> use the RX-900's for music and Razers for Gaming...
> onboard sound on the RX-900's are loud... but the Razer's even with volume at 100% its not even half of what the RX-900's volume is...


this is the setup i use for music and gaming. i have no complaints. the 900's have good bass also.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

So what's the status of the TiHD? Will it get pulled from your list?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> So what's the status of the TiHD? Will it get pulled from your list?


Why would it be removed from the list?


----------



## snoball

Anyone known anything about VMODA Crossfade LPs? Not the LP2, I'm talking the older model.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Why would it be removed from the list?


Look at what is written under the TiHD on the recommendation page.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Look at what is written under the TiHD on the recommendation page.


Wow, it's that wide-swept - I'd heard of this happening to others but I didn't know it was such a commonality.

I suppose, if mine dies, I'll have an excuse to get a cheap solution for positional audio in games and go with a dedicated DAC for music.

However, this does not make it ok. I believe a company should stand by its products, especially one as venerable (and one would hope as knowledgeable) as Creative.

Maybe we should start a spreadsheet of some type for owners of the card to sign in and let us know what the longevity on their card is like (ie total months owned, issues, etc.) - it would give us at least a peripheral idea of failure rate too.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Added the CEntrance DACs and the Leckerton UHA-4. Formatted a bit to make it easier to navigate and more concise.
Took away the HT Omega's as recommendations because of poor driver support and not that it's bad, but it doesn't do anything well either.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> Xonar DX and Modded HA RX-900's be a good combo?
> use the RX-900's for music and Razers for Gaming...
> onboard sound on the RX-900's are loud... but the Razer's even with volume at 100% its not even half of what the RX-900's volume is...


I've heard it's a better deal to buy JVC700's and mod them.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Wow, it's that wide-swept - I'd heard of this happening to others but I didn't know it was such a commonality.
> I suppose, if mine dies, I'll have an excuse to get a cheap solution for positional audio in games and go with a dedicated DAC for music.
> However, this does not make it ok. I believe a company should stand by its products, especially one as venerable (and one would hope as knowledgeable) as Creative.
> Maybe we should start a spreadsheet of some type for owners of the card to sign in and let us know what the longevity on their card is like (ie total months owned, issues, etc.) - it would give us at least a peripheral idea of failure rate too.


So you have the TiHD? How long have you had it? Got any issues with it?


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> So you have the TiHD? How long have you had it? Got any issues with it?


I had mine for a year and a couple of months before it died and refused to be recognized in my computer.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> So you have the TiHD? How long have you had it? Got any issues with it?


About 3.5 months so far with no issues.

EDIT: keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## gotskil

What do you guys think of Corsair Gaming Audio Series SP2500?


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> *~$82 Price Range:*
> *Asus Xonar DX*
> I'd recommend this card for both gaming and music in which it will totally rock out for music and perform well in certain games.
> **BEWARE**
> Do not expect exceptional BC2 sound from the Xonar DX. If you at all play BC2 on a regular basis, you should avoid this card as it won't give you the positional cues you're looking for. If you're playing virtually ANY OTHER GAME besides BC2 you'll love this card. It's excellent for Call of Duty. It's excellent for RPGs and Racers. In fact, it'll do RPGs and racers better than the Creative cards.
> If you absolutely must play BC2, again, you're looking at the Creative Titanium unless you can somehow score a Auzentech Forte in this price range.


I see that this card does not do well with BC2. Has this carried over to BF3 or is BF3 good on this sound card?


----------



## randomnerd865

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Anyone known anything about VMODA Crossfade LPs? Not the LP2, I'm talking the older model.


I own them. They are decent if you like dubstep or hip hop. They are also very loud if you hook them up to a proper amplified sound card and add some treble. Although, I bought them primarily for the looks and listening to music on the go or at school because of the iphone functionality fairly comfy too.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> I see that this card does not do well with BC2. Has this carried over to BF3 or is BF3 good on this sound card?


BF3 is fine AFAIK


----------



## jdip

Thanks.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Added Cambridge Audio Dacmagic


----------



## snoball

Hey guys, I am looking to buy a 2.1 speaker system. I read through the 1st post and I am a little lost. I listen to a wide variety of music, mainly DnB and downtempo right now.

I am looking for a quality set for ~150 no more than $200. I do not want overpowering bass, but something decent enough for my bassier music. I don't want it to get all funky and clicky, I guess muddy is the term.

I am by no means an audiophile, clearly.

Thanks in advance!

Kinda drooling all over these, http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=89


----------



## randomnerd865

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Hey guys, I am looking to buy a 2.1 speaker system. I read through the 1st post and I am a little lost. I listen to a wide variety of music, mainly DnB and downtempo right now.
> I am looking for a quality set for ~150 no more than $200. I do not want overpowering bass, but something decent enough for my bassier music. I don't want it to get all funky and clicky, I guess muddy is the term.
> I am by no means an audiophile, clearly.
> Thanks in advance!
> Kinda drooling all over these, http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=89


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-650 - Bookshelfs amazing,,, same setup I have
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-628 - I have the 12 which is just more bass its up to you the 12" is just a little more cost wise
I must say this setup sounds amazing for the price you will never find something better.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Formatted more and added the AKG Q701 (same soundstage properties as the K701 but bassier, better looking and at the same price as K701) and Sennheiser HD800 in the gaming headphone section.


----------



## lb_felipe

What's amp appropriate for Sennheiser HD 800?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> What's amp appropriate for Sennheiser HD 800?


Depends on your budget. Anything below $1000 US, then the O2 Amp


----------



## lb_felipe

Thanks for reply.

Without worrying about the cost, what would be the best amplifier?

Preferably, which is small to be used on a computer desk, which is solid state, and which can be used immediately after power up.


----------



## chinesekiwi

The Benchmark DAC 1 series, which has a great headphone amp and a great DAC as well. If you already have a soundcard and it has an optical out, you can use an optical cable out to the DAC 1.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway, formatted some more, added the Ultrasone Pro series as recommendations. As the Allesandro MS2i is better sounding than the Grado 325i, I added them instead.

Added, based on the advice from pioneerisloud, updated speaker recommendations and a powered subwoofer section. Will credit PIL later as well.

Will format the rest later. It's hard work! *So much BBCode!!!* You guys better appreciate it!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Anyway, formatted some more, added the Ultrasone Pro series as recommendations. As the Allesandro MS2i is better sounding than the Grado 325i, I added them instead.
> 
> Added, based on the advice from pioneerisloud, updated speaker recommendations and a powered subwoofer section. Will credit PIL later as well.
> 
> Will format the rest later. It's hard work! *So much BBCode!!!* You guys better appreciate it!


Sorry, I didn't realize that post was so huge. Guess I should've given you price ranges on all of them huh?

BIC Venturi Bookshelfs are about $110 / pair (parts express)
BIC Venturi Towers start at I think $130 each (parts express)
Polk Monitor 30's start at $110 normal price / pair, 40's at about $150 normal price / pair. (newegg / amazon)
Monitor 50 Towers start off I think at $150 each (newegg / amazon)

Note: These prices were the last time I checked, but that was a while ago. So take the prices with a grain of salt.

The BIC Venturi's are a good choice for a budget oriented "natural" sounding speaker. Polk Monitors are great for a "bright" sounding speaker. The bookshelf and towers alike on both sets.

If somebody is into woodworking and wants some serious sub power..... oh man could I work up some interesting things.









I only really know "budget" oriented equipment though. I usually only keep my eyes on stuff that I could ever potentially afford.


----------



## aksthem1

The Cambridge Audio S30s for $210 are great for the price. A better option for those looking at the NHT Superzeros.

There is also the Morduant Short Carnival 2 and Energy RC-10 at $250.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Anyway, formatted some more, added the Ultrasone Pro series as recommendations. As the Allesandro MS2i is better sounding than the Grado 325i, I added them instead.
> Added, based on the advice from pioneerisloud, updated speaker recommendations and a powered subwoofer section. Will credit PIL later as well.
> Will format the rest later. It's hard work! *So much BBCode!!!* You guys better appreciate it!


We sure do!

I have a question about the Xonar DX. If I got this and hooked my case front panel jacks to it, would using the front panel jacks degrade the sound quality? I have a pair of ATH-M50s coming in that I would like to get a better sound card for.


----------



## leighteam

Yo fellow audiophiles!

I'm using the Ultrasone Pro 550s with a Xonar DX, and it sounds great! However, I wish I could make them a little bit louder. The Window's volume is maxed and the left/right in the Xonar Audio Center is maxed. I know an amp isn't recommended for these cans, but I just feel like I'm missing a little power. Is it because the Xonar DX doesn't have a built in amp like the higher end Asus sound cards? Would an upgrade to one of those cards make sense? Or at that price point it's probably almost more appropriate to get a better set of cans...

Hoping I don't get some white knight telling me not to listen to music loud!

Thanks in advance


----------



## GuardianDuo

Hey guys, could you help me decide the HD681, HARX700, and HTF600s?

The headphones will be used with a 1st gen iPod Touch and an Xonar DG.
It'll be for gaming and music (dubstep, mostly, so bass =







)

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leighteam*
> 
> Yo fellow audiophiles!
> I'm using the Ultrasone Pro 550s with a Xonar DX, and it sounds great! However, I wish I could make them a little bit louder. The Window's volume is maxed and the left/right in the Xonar Audio Center is maxed. I know an amp isn't recommended for these cans, but I just feel like I'm missing a little power. Is it because the Xonar DX doesn't have a built in amp like the higher end Asus sound cards? Would an upgrade to one of those cards make sense? Or at that price point it's probably almost more appropriate to get a better set of cans...
> Hoping I don't get some white knight telling me not to listen to music loud!
> Thanks in advance


You could get an external headphone amplifier and hook that up to your soundcard.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leighteam*
> 
> Yo fellow audiophiles!
> I'm using the Ultrasone Pro 550s with a Xonar DX, and it sounds great! However, I wish I could make them a little bit louder. The Window's volume is maxed and the left/right in the Xonar Audio Center is maxed. I know an amp isn't recommended for these cans, but I just feel like I'm missing a little power. Is it because the Xonar DX doesn't have a built in amp like the higher end Asus sound cards? Would an upgrade to one of those cards make sense? Or at that price point it's probably almost more appropriate to get a better set of cans...
> Hoping I don't get some white knight telling me not to listen to music loud!
> Thanks in advance


Could be an amplification issue. Have you got a dB meter measuring how loud things are?

Anything over 85dB is not recommended.

Upgrade to the STX.


----------



## lb_felipe

kiwi, what do you think on Schiit Asgard for Sennheiser HD 800?

I have read this: http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> kiwi, what do you think on Schiit Asgard for Sennheiser HD 800?
> I have read this: http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/


Hell no. Get the Benchmark DAC 1 series if you can afford it.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> I have a question about the Xonar DX. If I got this and hooked my case front panel jacks to it, would using the front panel jacks degrade the sound quality?


Bump

And would it be recommended to use a headphone amp with the Xonar DX down the road when I get better cans?


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about the Xonar DX. If I got this and hooked my case front panel jacks to it, would using the front panel jacks degrade the sound quality?
> 
> 
> 
> Bump
> And would it be recommended to use a headphone amp with the Xonar DX down the road when I get better cans?
Click to expand...

I think the Xonar has a built in headphone amp. I know my Xonar DG does.

To your other question, I think it depends on the shielding/quality of your front panel connector cables. I can hear a very faint electrical hiss coming from my headphones when there's no music playing and they're turned up. Not sure where it's coming from or how to get rid of it (if anyone has any ideas on this, please share them).


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> I think the Xonar has a built in headphone amp. I know my Xonar DG does.
> To your other question, I think it depends on the shielding/quality of your front panel connector cables. I can hear a very faint electrical hiss coming from my headphones when there's no music playing and they're turned up. Not sure where it's coming from or how to get rid of it (if anyone has any ideas on this, please share them).


The DG does but the DX/D1 don't.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> I see that this card does not do well with BC2. Has this carried over to BF3 or is BF3 good on this sound card?
> 
> 
> 
> BF3 is fine AFAIK
Click to expand...

Same here, from what I've heard BF3 seems to work well enough with Asus cards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Added Cambridge Audio Dacmagic


Too much money for what it presents. Poor value imo. Too much hype as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GuardianDuo*
> 
> Hey guys, could you help me decide the HD681, HARX700, and HTF600s?
> 
> The headphones will be used with a 1st gen iPod Touch and an Xonar DG.
> It'll be for gaming and music (dubstep, mostly, so bass =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Thanks in advance!


RX700s if you want the headphones with the most bass. The HTF600s don't have enough. The 681s really don't have enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> kiwi, what do you think on Schiit Asgard for Sennheiser HD 800?
> I have read this: http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/
> 
> 
> 
> Hell no. Get the Benchmark DAC 1 series if you can afford it.
Click to expand...

You truly love that piece. It will get taken over in the amp section after 600 dollars though. You know this. For a stand alone amp that is.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I go by measurements for sources Simca. Based on measurements based on Stereophile's AP measurements, which are the same NWAVGuy uses and is used heavily in the electrical engineering industry. The DACMagic was the best measurement wise for the price range.

Stereophile's AP based measurements of the Dacmagic: http://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-azur-dacmagic-da-converter-measurements

I never ever use subjectiveness (except scientifically based absolute hearing thresholds) for source recommendations.


----------



## jagz

For those with a DG/DX, go to "Effect" then change it from "default" to "classic" on the right.

Sounds ALOT better.


----------



## jdip

In general should I stay away from external DACs if I want to game?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> In general should I stay away from external DACs if I want to game?


Not necessarily. I know external DACs that are better for gaming than soundcards like the Xonar DX.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not necessarily. I know external DACs that are better for gaming than soundcards like the Xonar DX.


Could you give me some examples? One thing that made the Xonar DX appeal to me was its cost.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

For gaming I wouldn't go with anything that didn't offer Dolby Headphone personally.


----------



## Sxcerino

Stuck on choosing a pair of speakers for gaming/music.

Between the KRK RP5 Rokit G2, Mackie MR5MK2, Swan M200MKII, MKIII, anyone know which one would be better for games/movies?

Thanks


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Stuck on choosing a pair of speakers for gaming/music.
> 
> Between the KRK RP5 Rokit G2, Mackie MR5MK2, Swan M200MKII, MKIII, anyone know which one would be better for games/movies?
> 
> Thanks


For that kind of price, I'd look into building your own with a T amp + bookshelfs. $300 range will go very VERY far, that's $100 for the T amp and $200 for the bookshelfs.


----------



## aksthem1

The Mackies and Rokits are made for near field listening. While the Swans are for multimedia use.

So you decide to play a movie or listen to some music 10ft+ away, then you may not completely impressed.

Swan came out with a new version of the D1080, D1080 IV, and uses the same woofer from the M200 series. And from what I have read, it has the same crossovers and amp from the M200 MKII.

Could be a cheaper alternative from the M200 MKII and MKIII.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> For that kind of price, I'd look into building your own with a T amp + bookshelfs. $300 range will go very VERY far, that's $100 for the T amp and $200 for the bookshelfs.


They're for a friend, who really wants to keep it super simple with least "stuff" (cliche). I guess I'm also sort of doing a test run with him so i could decide on my speakers later








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> The Mackies and Rokits are made for near field listening. While the Swans are for multimedia use.
> So you decide to play a movie or listen to some music 10ft+ away, then you may not completely impressed.
> Swan came out with a new version of the D1080, D1080 IV, and uses the same woofer from the M200 series. And from what I have read, it has the same crossovers and amp from the M200 MKII.
> Could be a cheaper alternative from the M200 MKII and MKIII.


Near field is fine. These will be used as desktop ones to pair up to the computer on an essence STX.
The D1080IV fact is nice to know. And I'm guessing at this price range, the difference between 200 and 300$ benefits will be pretty marginal right?
Them all being excellent speakers, but is there one that has the better performance or is it's pretty indistinguishable from D1080IVs that it won't really matter for gaming/movie purposes in front of a computer?

Thanks for all replies


----------



## pioneerisloud

Just a friendly heads up....

The Pioneer SP-B21-LR's are on sale right now for $49.99 Free shipping on newegg!








http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4003003&SID=1w7u9gy02dgd1

Such an absolutely killer price on those! They're worth the normal $80 (on amazon).

Thanks to Jackeduphard for showing me this deal.


----------



## aksthem1

They go on sale all the time, but for $50 they are still great speakers.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not necessarily. I know external DACs that are better for gaming than soundcards like the Xonar DX.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you give me some examples? One thing that made the Xonar DX appeal to me was its cost.
Click to expand...

I could, but they'd all be atleast 2x more expensive than the Xonar DX.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> For gaming I wouldn't go with anything that didn't offer Dolby Headphone personally.


Never found Dolby Headphone useful.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Stuck on choosing a pair of speakers for gaming/music.
> 
> Between the KRK RP5 Rokit G2, Mackie MR5MK2, Swan M200MKII, MKIII, anyone know which one would be better for games/movies?
> 
> Thanks


Mackie is a solid company, I'd go with those out of the ones you've listed but there are better to be had for the price if you find everything piece by piece.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Mackie is a solid company, I'd go with those out of the ones you've listed but there are better to be had for the price if you find everything piece by piece.


Hmm... Hypothetically, what would be something better if pieced together?
Also, if pieced together at the $200 mark, would it still beat the "ready to use" $300 mark ones like the Mackie?


----------



## chinesekiwi

To do list: headphone amps. Should be easy to do but will do later.


----------



## Simca

Simple list. O2 amp til 600+


----------



## Sxcerino

Where have people been finding Infinity Primus P163 for 85 a speaker? Could only find them for 140 per.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> Where have people been finding Infinity Primus P163 for 85 a speaker? Could only find them for 140 per.


I haven't seen them that cheap since last year and even then they were on sale.


----------



## Simca

There was a sale on them at one point on Newegg for 100. I get them for 100, but it was off Craigslist from a guy who worked for Harman Kardon.

As far as I knew they normally went for 150 for a pair. Crutchfield. (Seems they've gone up in price though.)


----------



## HornetMaX

Hi all,
I have recently purchased an AKG GHS 1 headset, one of the few headset recommended here. I need it for gaming only, paired with a Creative X-Fi Titanium.

Honestly I like a lot the design and the audio quality, but for gaming it has one major flaw: THE MIC IS NOT A NOISE CANCELLING ONE









In game with mumble, either nobody hears me and I have to shout, or my mates hear every click I do with my mouse (not to talk about my mechanical keyboard). I tried all the possible settings but no joy









As said in this forum (AKG GHS 1 mini review), push to talk is mandatory with this headset: a big no go for me.

Any chance an hardware mod (foam on the mic or rubber tube "extending" it) can help ?

MaX.


----------



## sratra

Hi all...just needed a little headphone advice from you guys.....its the old 595 vs 598 dilemma ...check out this thread
http://www.overclock.net/t/1242288/sennheiser-hd-595-or-hd-598-p-headphone-noob-here-d
Im not sure if its acceptable to post this here...I was kind of in a hurry since i have to purchase within 1-2 days and this my wasnt getting any attention...If this is against rules or something, then mods can remove the post or ill just edit it......
thank you


----------



## 3930K

Insane deal (NEW)


----------



## Redwoodz

Just came across these AKG Q460's for an extremely attractive price
http://www.harmanaudio.com/Search_Browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=Q460BLK&status=
can't seem to find many reviews,anyone have any input?


----------



## jdip

Hey guys I've heard good things about the Musiland Monitor 02 US, but how does it do with gaming?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Hey guys I've heard good things about the Musiland Monitor 02 US, but how does it do with gaming?


Well, it will reproduce the sounds that the application calls for (in this case the game) but it doesn't offer any specific technology to improving the gaming (I assume you mean positional audio?).

The DAC in question is purposed for music listening.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> (I assume you mean positional audio?).
> The DAC in question is purposed for music listening.


Correct. I just wanted to know how it would fare for gaming, but that makes sense.

Maybe I will just grab a Xonar DX to get a bump in overall audio quality in both gaming and music/movies.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Maybe I will just grab a Xonar DX to get a bump in overall audio quality in both gaming and music/movies.


Not a bad idea at all but the Monitor O2 is ~$150, no (been a while since I looked it up so I could be wrong)? At that price, why not the STX (SQ is excellent and you get all the built-in Asus tech for gaming)?


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Not a bad idea at all but the Monitor O2 is ~$150, no (been a while since I looked it up so I could be wrong)? At that price, why not the STX (SQ is excellent and you get all the built-in Asus tech for gaming)?


It can be had for ~$120 now, so it's a fair amount cheaper than the STX.

Not sure if I want to spend in excess of $100 atm, just wanted to inquire about the Musiland.

ASUS is running rebates for soundcards this month so I can get a DX for around $60 new. Is there anything else I should be looking at in that price range?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> It can be had for ~$120 now, so it's a fair amount cheaper than the STX.
> Not sure if I want to spend in excess of $100 atm, just wanted to inquire about the Musiland.


Oh, I didn't know they had dropped in price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> ASUS is running rebates for soundcards this month so I can get a DX for around $60 new. Is there anything else I should be looking at in that price range?


For $60, I don't think the DX can be beat.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Oh, I didn't know they had dropped in price.
> For $60, I don't think the DX can be beat.


Thanks for the help, appreciate it


----------



## Romin

I read the first post, but still so confused about the whole speaker systems and stuff! I have a $500-$600 budget to get a decent speaker system for my PC ! Usage would be mostly music and movies since i use my headphone while gaming. I was going to pull the trigger on a set of Logitech Z906 today, then i saw this thread that completely changed my mind. I'm really new to these custom audio systems, so need some suggestions !!


----------



## snoball

What is the best Isolation headphones? Minimal sound leak.


----------



## Simca

Actually the Xonar DX is inferior to the Musiland Monitor 02 in most types of games. I remember the Musiland was better than the DX by a lot in umm... Left 4 Dead 2.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> What is the best Isolation headphones? Minimal sound leak.


Aside from IEMs that stick deep into the ear canal, Beyerdynamic DT 770 M, the one intended for drummers. The normal DT 770 versions are already among the more isolating headphones.


----------



## Romin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Romin*
> 
> I read the first post, but still so confused about the whole speaker systems and stuff! I have a $500-$600 budget to get a decent speaker system for my PC ! Usage would be mostly music and movies since i use my headphone while gaming. I was going to pull the trigger on a set of Logitech Z906 today, then i saw this thread that completely changed my mind. I'm really new to these custom audio systems, so need some suggestions !!


anyone ?!


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Romin*
> 
> I read the first post, but still so confused about the whole speaker systems and stuff! I have a $500-$600 budget to get a decent speaker system for my PC ! Usage would be mostly music and movies since i use my headphone while gaming. I was going to pull the trigger on a set of Logitech Z906 today, then i saw this thread that completely changed my mind. I'm really new to these custom audio systems, so need some suggestions !!


If that's your budget, you have so, so many options, why would you even consider the Logitech? If you don't like any of the options discussed in this thread or others here, then take a look at the Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350 (I haven't heard many recommendations but they're really outstanding sounding speakers and to say the bottom end on them is is surprising would be an understatement. The pair is about ~$500 on Newegg, Amazon or anywhere else (just about). Add a $100 amp of your choice and you're set - again, if you want something not oft recommended (i.e. just looking for something different) the AudioSource AMP-100 is about $90 on Amazon and is pretty clean (and neutral) sounding for the price (hard to beat). GL
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Actually the Xonar DX is inferior to the Musiland Monitor 02 in most types of games. I remember the Musiland was better than the DX by a lot in umm... Left 4 Dead 2.


Really? That's surprising but life's full of those I suppose - thanks for the heads up.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Romin*
> 
> anyone ?!


What are you confused about? The difference between active speakers and passive speakers is that active speakers include their own amplifiers inside. Thus you only need to feed them a line input signal (analog) and plug them into the wall, and they will make sounds.

Passive speakers are just the speakers themselves, so you need to hook them up to an amplifier (the amp input is a line input, more or less the same as the input to an active speaker). A receiver includes speaker amplifiers inside, but you can also get dedicated speaker amplifiers.

Active speakers have the advantage of having less components to worry about, and also if one manufacturer is making both the speakers and the amplifier, they can design the amplifier precisely with the correct specs needed to pair well with the speakers. Passive speakers give you more components to tweak and swap, if that's your thing. Sometimes they can be better values, too.

If you have no idea and don't want to figure much out, just get active speakers, IMHO.


----------



## Sxcerino

Anyone with Mackie MR5MKIIs encounter any kind of bass distortion when their monitor's back is close against a wall? Worried and heard some stuff about leaving room for the back-facing woofer


----------



## Romin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> What are you confused about? The difference between active speakers and passive speakers is that active speakers include their own amplifiers inside. Thus you only need to feed them a line input signal (analog) and plug them into the wall, and they will make sounds.
> Passive speakers are just the speakers themselves, so you need to hook them up to an amplifier (the amp input is a line input, more or less the same as the input to an active speaker). A receiver includes speaker amplifiers inside, but you can also get dedicated speaker amplifiers.
> Active speakers have the advantage of having less components to worry about, and also if one manufacturer is making both the speakers and the amplifier, they can design the amplifier precisely with the correct specs needed to pair well with the speakers. Passive speakers give you more components to tweak and swap, if that's your thing. Sometimes they can be better values, too.
> If you have no idea and don't want to figure much out, just get active speakers, IMHO.


I know the difference between passive and active ! I'm actually confused about which active or passive set I should go for ! also dont know if those active speakers need sub woofer or no ! I actually prefer active ones since as yo said they don't have the hassle of having receiver or amp ! forgot to mention that I need a sound card too which probably going for a Xonar STX, so my budget for speakers alone would be about $450-$500! OP has suggested a KRK set for $300 budget, should I go for it and do i need a sub ?!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Added beyerdynamic Headzone Base Station H 1 for gaming interfaces.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Actually the Xonar DX is inferior to the Musiland Monitor 02 in most types of games. I remember the Musiland was better than the DX by a lot in umm... Left 4 Dead 2.


But isn't the Monitor 02 missing those gaming positional technologies like EAX and Dolby Digital Headphone, etc?


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> But isn't the Monitor 02 missing those gaming positional technologies like EAX and Dolby Digital Headphone, etc?


Yup, so it would be straight stereo that it receives directly from the game with had left to right pans and all. I'm not sure how that is better than Dolby headphone, myself.

I prefer my Xonar DX to the Titanium HD that I had.


----------



## chinesekiwi

added headphone amps section and why I don't recommend portable headphone amps.


----------



## Simca

Yeah, the Musiland has zero gaming features on it. I figure it's better because the DAC is better. Maybe the small details helped the 02 come out on top. I was never a fan of dolby headphone though. Never used it after trying it a few times with my old DX.

What the heck is a "beyerdynamic Headzone Base Station H"


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Yeah, the Musiland has zero gaming features on it. I figure it's better because the DAC is better. Maybe the small details helped the 02 come out on top. I was never a fan of dolby headphone though. Never used it after trying it a few times with my old DX.
> What the heck is a "beyerdynamic Headzone Base Station H"












It's the base unit part of the beyerdynamic gamerzone package. Amazing bit of tech wen you look into the science behind it.

when you move your head, the music / directional cues stay in the same position like in real life.


----------



## Sxcerino

I can't think of why I would move my head while gaming however.

Granted, it is pretty cool of a technology if it's not gimmicky.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> I can't think of why I would move my head while gaming however.
> 
> Granted, it is pretty cool of a technology if it's not gimmicky.


it's natural to move your head. you head doesn't stay still like a statue. Far from gimmicky.


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> it's natural to move your head. you head doesn't stay still like a statue. Far from gimmicky.


Perhaps, but definitely not more than ~2 cm in radius. If I really moved my head a lot more that during gaming, I'd prob develop some kind of neck strain


----------



## chinesekiwi

2cm at your head over a long distance = significant and directly affects directional cues.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> I can't think of why I would move my head while gaming however.
> 
> Granted, it is pretty cool of a technology if it's not gimmicky.
> 
> 
> 
> it's natural to move your head. you head doesn't stay still like a statue. Far from gimmicky.
Click to expand...

You've never seen me play League of Legends then. Stone statue head positioning. Then head movement upon rage and slamming of fists upon glass tables and shouts of profanity. Good times.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You've never seen me play League of Legends then. Stone statue head positioning. Then head movement upon rage and slamming of fists upon glass tables and shouts of profanity. Good times.


Positional audio cues are of paramount importance in LoL. All LoL players should definitely buy one of those


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You've never seen me play League of Legends then. Stone statue head positioning. Then head movement upon rage and slamming of fists upon glass tables and shouts of profanity. Good times.
> 
> 
> 
> Positional audio cues are of paramount importance in LoL. All LoL players should definitely buy one of those
Click to expand...

Lean head to listen to the sounds of brush swaying in the near distance. I hear a teemo! He's on the prowl!


----------



## rdfloyd

Figured I'd post here instead of making a new thread:

Are there any good IEMs on sale right now? I seem to remember the audio forum was buzzing about a set of Audio Technica IEMs earlier this year. I'm looking at the $20-$30 range. Will be using it with my laptop (has a terrible sound card) so I'm not expecting much out of them. It would be nice if they aren't open, so that I don't disturb anyone around me. Also, some bass would be nice (I realize this is stretching it). Any suggestions?

Poking around head-fi has lead me to these two: Monoprice 8320 and "CK-700"


----------



## Sxcerino

Quick question:

I got the Rokit Rp5 G2s and a Xonar Essence STX.

Should I use RCA (rokit) -> RCA (STX)

or is it better to take advantage of the XLR port and use

XLR (rokit) -> RCA (STX), i.e. a cord with XLR on 1 end and RCA on the other.

Thanks


----------



## jdip

I'm assuming the Xonar DX will have the upper hand when it comes to movies and gaming, but how does its DAC compare to the Fiio E10 when it comes to music?


----------



## Buttnose

The left channel on my computer speakers just broke so I'm looking at upgrading now. Wondering how I'd go about plugging Swans M10 or Wharfedale 9.1s into my Xonar D1. Both of the physical speakers have RCA cables on them right? So how do I go about getting both channels from the 1 lineout from my soundcard?

Seems to be alot easier to buy a DAC with RCA outputs than muck about with the soundcard


----------



## TUDJ

The Wharfedale 9.1 are passive speakers, they need an amplifier, they won't run directly off your soundcard.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> I'm assuming the Xonar DX will have the upper hand when it comes to movies and gaming, but how does its DAC compare to the Fiio E10 when it comes to music?


Why would you suspect that one has the upper hand for anything (unless you want to turn on and use one of the Creative DSP effects)? E10 has a better headphone amp; I don't think too much is known about the DX's D/A, but it should be pretty decent.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buttnose*
> 
> The left channel on my computer speakers just broke so I'm looking at upgrading now. Wondering how I'd go about plugging Swans M10 or Wharfedale 9.1s into my Xonar D1. Both of the physical speakers have RCA cables on them right? So how do I go about getting both channels from the 1 lineout from my soundcard?
> 
> Seems to be alot easier to buy a DAC with RCA outputs than muck about with the soundcard


I don't mean to be condescending here, and I might just be reading you wrong, but aren't you just asking for a standard 3.5mm TRS to two RCA cable? (for the M10; passive speakers need an amp of course)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=665

on second look, the M10 already comes with such a cable, as is typical.


----------



## Buttnose

Cheers for clearing that up both of you. Wharfedale were listed under the active speakers in the original post, confused me alot!


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Why would you suspect that one has the upper hand for anything (unless you want to turn on and use one of the Creative DSP effects)? E10 has a better headphone amp; I don't think too much is known about the DX's D/A, but it should be pretty decent.


I figured it would be better for gaming because won't it have positional audio with all the Dolby stuff and some headphones with a large soundstage?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Why would you suspect that one has the upper hand for anything (unless you want to turn on and use one of the Creative DSP effects)? E10 has a better headphone amp; I don't think too much is known about the DX's D/A, but it should be pretty decent.
> 
> 
> 
> I figured it would be better for gaming because won't it have positional audio with all the Dolby stuff and some headphones with a large soundstage?
Click to expand...

Somehow I had a massive brain fart earlier and thought you were asking about something other than a DX, so I mentioned Creative instead of Asus. My bad.









Anyway, if you're using Dolby Headphone on the DX and think it improves things, then that's an advantage, yes. Otherwise, there should be a minimal difference for that. I guess it's one of those "better see for yourself" situations. The algorithm isn't taking into account your head in specific, so it may not work for you as it does for others. I'd call it most likely an improvement for locating sounds, but even that might be overreaching.


----------



## 3930K

Do we need a headphone amp if our soundcard has a built in headphone amp? e.g. I have an ASUS Xonar Essence STX and I want to drive a 300ohm headphone, would I need an external amp?


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Do we need a headphone amp if our soundcard has a built in headphone amp? e.g. I have an ASUS Xonar Essence STX and I want to drive a 300ohm headphone, would I need an external amp?


The STX amp can drive 300ohm headphones just fine. If you're interested in getting an external amp, consider getting an external DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mechtech*
> 
> The STX amp can drive 300ohm headphones just fine. If you're interested in getting an external amp, consider getting an external DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II.


Thanks! rep+


----------



## Sxcerino

The DAC on essence STX is actually really good.

Don't bother unless you're planning on spending a fortune.

The amps on the STX are upgradable too.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sxcerino*
> 
> The DAC on essence STX is actually really good.
> Don't bother unless you're planning on spending a fortune.
> The amps on the STX are upgradable too.


I think what you meant was "the opamps on the STX are swappable too" because you can't improve the amplifying chip without desoldering and even if you did, you wouldn't really gain much out of it. Also, opamps aren't a guaranteed upgrade.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Somehow I had a massive brain fart earlier and thought you were asking about something other than a DX, so I mentioned Creative instead of Asus. My bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you're using Dolby Headphone on the DX and think it improves things, then that's an advantage, yes. Otherwise, there should be a minimal difference for that. I guess it's one of those "better see for yourself" situations. The algorithm isn't taking into account your head in specific, so it may not work for you as it does for others. I'd call it most likely an improvement for locating sounds, but even that might be overreaching.


No worries!

I've never used Dolby Headphone before but I have seen people say good things about it in user reviews.

Anyone have the FiiO E10? I like the idea of having an external box like that for headphones. And it looks really nice


----------



## admflameberg

I still trying to make up my mind on a audio engine D1 and a HRT Music streamer 2, mainly because the D1 has the Digital input plug that I want,so i can use this DG I temp using as a transport so I don't gotta fool with ASIo4ALL with a straight usb dac. As I hate using asio4all as it don't work right. Since I need the asio support for the program I use.

Tho any one know how either one does against Both STX and X-Fi HD pci-e. I had a X-FI HD recently but I sold it so I could get my HD 7950 since I was short of cash(If only I knew about that AMD price drop I would had waited 2 more weeks) . I really just Curious how they do against those two sound cards. I don't wanna go back to the cards I had, so i hoping to try something different as long it has the Digital input plugs on it that i need.

I do know another dac I had in mind the Ross Martin audio dac which is a good one other then it's made to order and takes a while to be built. Not really a patience man.

Also I mainly looking for Transparent with deep and a wide sound stage but it don't have to be very deep and very wide. But I can't go over the 200 dollar mark and have to be able to be gotten in the usa as I don't wanna pay a bunch of money to ship something back over seas.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> I still trying to make up my mind on a audio engine D1 and a HRT Music streamer 2, mainly because the D1 has the Digital input plug that I want,so i can use this DG I temp using as a transport so I don't gotta fool with ASIo4ALL with a straight usb dac. As I hate using asio4all as it don't work right. Since I need the asio support for the program I use.
> Tho any one know how either one does against Both STX and X-Fi HD pci-e. I had a X-FI HD recently but I sold it so I could get my HD 7950 since I was short of cash(If only I knew about that AMD price drop I would had waited 2 more weeks) . I really just Curious how they do against those two sound cards. I don't wanna go back to the cards I had, so i hoping to try something different as long it has the Digital input plugs on it that i need.
> I do know another dac I had in mind the Ross Martin audio dac which is a good one other then it's made to order and takes a while to be built. Not really a patience man.
> Also I mainly looking for Transparent with deep and a wide sound stage but it don't have to be very deep and very wide. But I can't go over the 200 dollar mark and have to be able to be gotten in the usa as I don't wanna pay a bunch of money to ship something back over seas.


The Music Streamer 2 is very highly regarded. The thing that turns me off about it is it has no volume control and it only has RCA outputs. Plus I don't like the way it looks (it's something I would hide behind everything). But as a DAC it's supposed to be really good. The D1 on the other hand has the volume control and is smexy








I've seen some stellar reviews for the D1:

http://www.avguide.com/review/audioengine-d1-dacheadphone-amp-playback-54
http://www.head-fi.org/t/581815/review-audioengine-d1-24-96-usb-and-optical-dac-amp-for-laptops-and-computers-in-progress
http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioengine-d1-24-bit-dac

I haven't had the STX or X-Fi Titanium HD but was thinking about those as well. The thing with those cards is you'll get things like Dolby and DTS stuff so it's nicer for gaming and movies than those USB DACs. I'm curious as to why you don't want to go back to those internal soundcards. Were you not impressed by the sound?


----------



## admflameberg

In fact I was impress by both the X-FI HD PCi-E and the Xonar STX, I just had plans to move onto a external dac sooner or later. When I sold my X-FI HD to get the funds for the card and got this DG used for cheap. I figure it be a good time to move onto a external dac that i always wanted to do.

Yea I was gonna plug the Digital input of the Audio Engine D1 into the DG Digital output so i could still get the dsp and features of the Xonar DG. While getting the external Dac SQ thru my Matrix M-Stage V2 amp.

The only reason i Kept thinking about the HRT because it get mention a lot and people seems to love it. The main thing that turned me off from it is that its USB only. I know it has a Dip-8 socket so I was hopng to move away from op-amp sockets on the source. Because if I Don't. I gonna go thru the box of op-amps and start rolling them inside the HRT in a never ending swapping.. So with a transparent source without a dip-8 socket. I would just be changing my M-Stage op-amps instead of both. Since the source would be Transparent like I wanted it.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> Yea I was gonna plug the Digital input of the Audio Engine D1 into the DG Digital output so i could still get the dsp and features of the Xonar DG. While getting the external Dac SQ thru my Matrix M-Stage V2 amp.


Interesting, I didn't know you could do that.


----------



## blackhand

i was just wondering if you guys could be of assistance as im thinking about picking up audio technica m50s and i see they weren't recommended here so are they bad for the price or something of those lines?


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> i was just wondering if you guys could be of assistance as im thinking about picking up audio technica m50s and i see they weren't recommended here so are they bad for the price or something of those lines?


Well the OP states:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Most of these recommendations are either a collective thought here on OCN or are some of which I, OCN's Audio Editor ChineseKiwi, and OCN staffer Pioneerisloud (speaker sections) have personally researched and found to be very good for their price. This does not mean there aren't other alternatives in the price range and each person will want something different for whatever reason. Again, this is mostly "most recommended."


As for the M50s specifically, I have had them for a couple of weeks and have used them extensively every day (so they should be sufficiently burned in). I don't have experience with more expensive headphones, but I love these headphones very much. Coming from lowly iPod earbuds and Bose On Ear headphones, these blew me away from the moment I put them on. There are reviews all over the place for them and they are highly regarded for the price (there must be a reason they are so popular at their price point). I have no regrets about getting mine.


----------



## Bobotheklown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> i was just wondering if you guys could be of assistance as im thinking about picking up audio technica m50s and i see they weren't recommended here so are they bad for the price or something of those lines?


I currently use these: http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-550-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000YDYEDW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335565738&sr=8-1

I had my brother bring over his m50's and after comparison on my pc (titanium x-fi hd) we decided the ultrasones sounded better. Needless to say I love these cans, got them used for $100









Would definitely recommend them over the m50's if you can pay a few dollars more.


----------



## blackhand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> I currently use these: http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-550-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000YDYEDW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335565738&sr=8-1
> I had my brother bring over his m50's and after comparison on my pc (titanium x-fi hd) we decided the ultrasones sounded better. Needless to say I love these cans, got them used for $100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would definitely recommend them over the m50's if you can pay a few dollars more.


does it come in the blue or white/silver? but the m50s are practically the same price so yeah


----------



## Bobotheklown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> does it come in the blue or white/silver? but the m50s are practically the same price so yeah


I bought them from a user on Head-fi. He had them sitting around for many months and rarely used them, and they are the blue model. I'm pretty sure the newer ones are the white model (which I actually prefer).

The Amazon reviews might have more info about that.


----------



## blackhand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> I bought them from a user on Head-fi. He had them sitting around for many months and rarely used them, and they are the blue model. I'm pretty sure the newer ones are the white model (which I actually prefer).
> The Amazon reviews might have more info about that.


yeah i looked at those but the blue was kind of a deal breaker for me. since my favorite colors are black/red. i think i just might go with some v-moda m-80s since it was my second choice and i kept hearing mixed reviews about the m50s. the people that have them love them, but others just say they arent worth it for the price. thanks though ill have to look more into the m80s and the ultrasounds you recommended.


----------



## Bobotheklown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> yeah i looked at those but the blue was kind of a deal breaker for me. since my favorite colors are black/red. i think i just might go with some v-moda m-80s since it was my second choice and i kept hearing mixed reviews about the m50s. the people that have them love them, but others just say they arent worth it for the price. thanks though ill have to look more into the m80s and the ultrasounds you recommended.


Hehe alright. Good luck finding the right pair for you


----------



## brown bird

Decided to buy an Asus Xonar DX because of this thread! Found a brand new one on Ebay for 60 bucks! Thanks for the info OP


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> yeah i looked at those but the blue was kind of a deal breaker for me. since my favorite colors are black/red. i think i just might go with some v-moda m-80s since it was my second choice and i kept hearing mixed reviews about the m50s. the people that have them love them, but others just say they arent worth it for the price. thanks though ill have to look more into the m80s and the ultrasounds you recommended.


You could paint the Ultrasones Black and red. to get around their blue color.


----------



## blackhand

I'm not that great with paint







had to spray paint some projects in wood shop before it was pretty disastrous


----------



## Caz

Percentage wise, for music how much of a difference would I see between onboard (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec)...Xonar DG...DS...and DX?

Currently have AD700s, Sony XB500s (both modded slightly)...and Logitech z523's. Going to buy DT770s or ATH M50wh's soon though. None are over 80ohms. Or need an amp badly.

Edit - BTW, going from a ALC888S to a ALC892...man there is a huge difference. That is what I want to know. How much more difference would I get from those Discreet cards.


----------



## MoMann

Just wanna say thanks for this thread I really appreciate it!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Percentage wise, for music how much of a difference would I see between onboard (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec)...Xonar DG...DS...and DX?
> 
> Currently have AD700s, Sony XB500s (both modded slightly)...and Logitech z523's. Going to buy DT770s or ATH M50wh's soon though. None are over 80ohms. Or need an amp badly.
> 
> Edit - BTW, going from a ALC888S to a ALC892...man there is a huge difference. That is what I want to know. How much more difference would I get from those Discreet cards.


Depends. Maybe half as wow as 88S to 92. Others will only notice very minute differences in music. In gaming however, I feel that was the largest difference. The hugest thing a discreet sound card does for you is noise management. If a song is very complex or a lot of sounds are going off at once (or something really interesting to try and do...have 2 different songs playing at the same time) on board will usually tank hard. It can't keep up for whatever reason and tends to drown a lot of sounds that should be there out. Soundcards help to stop things from getting drowned out.

When people get sound cards they usually say "wow the clarity."


----------



## chinesekiwi

Update: Use of spoiler tags to make the guide easier to navigate and look more tidy. Added in the Superlux HD681 as a 'rock' headphone over the JVC RX700 due to the RX700's recessed mids.

Also added some notes / info under some sub sections to help guide potential users of the guide in the right direction more.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Depends. Maybe half as wow as 88S to 92. Others will only notice very minute differences in music. In gaming however, I feel that was the largest difference. The hugest thing a discreet sound card does for you is noise management. If a song is very complex or a lot of sounds are going off at once (or something really interesting to try and do...have 2 different songs playing at the same time) on board will usually tank hard. It can't keep up for whatever reason and tends to drown a lot of sounds that should be there out. Soundcards help to stop things from getting drowned out.
> When people get sound cards they usually say "wow the clarity."


I mean the DX is only $100 or so...I think I will have that kind of cash to burn...this weekend when I buy my next newegg shipment. So I might just opt for the higher level card for the benefits. An STX would be nice...but too much money.


----------



## Boyd

My cousin is going to be buying new *Headsets* for gaming / music. he is planning to buy the Turtle Beach EarForce X12.

any recommendations on those before he makes his purchase. he can not spend more then 50 bucks on new headsets.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyd*
> 
> My cousin is going to be buying new *Headsets* for gaming / music. he is planning to buy the Turtle Beach EarForce X12.
> any recommendations on those before he makes his purchase. he can not spend more then 50 bucks on new headsets.


I'd actually recommend the JVC HA-RX700's w/ a Zalman Clip on. Superlux HD668b's are good too.


----------



## f0rld

I'm looking for a headphones for around 100€ and which doesn't require headphones amp. It must be closed headphones and it must isolate well ambitient noise (like 30dB). Thanks in advance.


----------



## brown bird

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> I mean the DX is only $100 or so...I think I will have that kind of cash to burn...this weekend when I buy my next newegg shipment. So I might just opt for the higher level card for the benefits. An STX would be nice...but too much money.


60-65 bucks new on ebay man, check there first.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Another user with HD650s and a Pro-Ject Head Box II (through a X-Fi Ti HD). If you guys want me to do a write up or something, just let me know.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyd*
> 
> My cousin is going to be buying new *Headsets* for gaming / music. he is planning to buy the Turtle Beach EarForce X12.
> 
> any recommendations on those before he makes his purchase. he can not spend more then 50 bucks on new headsets.


If you read the thread then you'd know the X12s make me want to kill myself.

That said, for the money you should buy Samson RH600s.


----------



## lb_felipe

Infinity Primus P153
Infinity Primus P163
Polk Audio PSW505
Polk Monitor series

They already have been discontinued. Please, recommend others in alternative to them.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Infinity Primus P153
> Infinity Primus P163
> Polk Audio PSW505
> Polk Monitor series
> 
> They already have been discontinued. Please, recommend others in alternative to them.


Why, they're still for sale.


----------



## MoMann

Have any ideas for a good home theater for 300 or less? I was thinking of this:

http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-systems/samsung-ht-c6500/4505-6740_7-34052053.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoMann*
> 
> Have any ideas for a good home theater for 300 or less? I was thinking of this:
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-systems/samsung-ht-c6500/4505-6740_7-34052053.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody


If you're in the US, I'd go for this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120200

$299 Free Shipping.

That Samsung setup is "meh" at best. It's fine for the money, but there's much better alternatives out there (such as the Onkyo). It's kind of like buying a z5500 and comparing it to AV40's. 5 crap speakers doesn't make good sound quality.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> If you're in the US, I'd go for this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120200
> $299 Free Shipping.
> That Samsung setup is "meh" at best. It's fine for the money, but there's much better alternatives out there (such as the Onkyo). It's kind of like buying a z5500 and comparing it to AV40's. 5 crap speakers doesn't make good sound quality.


To bad the receiver powers the subwoofer on that unit, and has no sub out for future upgrades unless using a sub with high power input..
But this is still better then those HTIB bluray/dvd combo system.


----------



## MoMann

Yes im in the US and quick question what specs should I focus on?


----------



## Boyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If you read the thread then you'd know the X12s make me want to kill myself.
> That said, for the money you should buy Samson RH600s.


thank you. i will let my cousin know about those Samson ones you have recommended.


----------



## Smile286

Hello!

I want an advice. Right now I have ASUS VULCAN ANC headset (32 Ohm) and Creative Augidy SE with modified drivers (daniel_k). I want to change my sound card. Will be ASUS Xonar D1 a good choice? Is it worth to change it? Someone said, that is not worh it because there will be no built-in headset amplifier...
Music and games is my preference.

Thanks for you time!









sorry for bad eng*r*ish


----------



## amadnei

any suggestion for headset for around 70$

( the compromise gamer ; creative aurvana are outdated ( out of stock wont receive more stock )


----------



## admflameberg

@Smile yes it worth it, if you had a pair of headphones that benefit from being amped then DG would be a good choice. But since your current headphone doesnt need to be amped. the Xonar D1 should make you happy. Tho you can always add a amp to it in the future when you do get better headphones.

@amadnei you can find a pair of Audio Techinca AD300 for 58 cad on ebay ,Then for a mic you can use a clip on mic. You could prolly find more headphones deals esle where besides ebay.ca


----------



## amadnei

Ok thanks ,
Its hard to find good headphone. each Ive found have good review, but than bad review from customer.


----------



## Antagonist

Superlux HD668B's are $40.00 with free shipping over here http://www.greenflymusicsupply.com/store/Superlux-by-Avlex-HD668B-Enhanced-Bass-Stereo-Headphones-p4076.html
I think I'll also get the Asus Xonar DG http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132020
Total: About $70.00 with shipping. Is that all I need? Any advice? I'm not too knowledgable about audio :S

EDIT: This would be mostly for music/gaming. Budget is under $90 total...


----------



## admflameberg

Remember hes in Canada


----------



## 1rkrage

does the Xonar DX still have issues? I recently spent on a Creative Omega but I'm on the market for another pair of headphones and a soundcard and just using that Omega for my HTPC, so i don't disturb the neighbors.

I'm likely going to spend $100 max on headphones so I won't need amplification likely.

it's also going to be connected to an Altec Lansing 5.1 setup aside from the headphones.


----------



## lb_felipe

Among these speaker amplifiers, which is the best bang for buck to drive a pair of Infinity Primus P153BK?

Lepai LP-2020A+
Dayton DTA-100a
Audioengine N22
Emotiva mini-X a-100


----------



## amadnei

Ok xonar dg seem to be a popular suggestion. I just need to choose a headphone


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Among these speaker amplifiers, which is the best bang for buck to drive a pair of Infinity Primus P153BK?
> 
> Lepai LP-2020A+
> Dayton DTA-100a
> Audioengine N22
> Emotiva mini-X a-100


I'd say the DTA-100a. Simply because at the $200 price point those other two amplifiers are at, you'd be better off getting a proper receiver. The Lepai would do okay, but I'm not too sure on how well it'll drive 100w speakers with only 20w worth of power.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Among these speaker amplifiers, which is the best bang for buck to drive a pair of Infinity Primus P153BK?
> 
> Lepai LP-2020A+
> Dayton DTA-100a
> Audioengine N22
> Emotiva mini-X a-100
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say the DTA-100a. Simply because at the $200 price point those other two amplifiers are at, you'd be better off getting a proper receiver. The Lepai would do okay, but I'm not too sure on how well it'll drive 100w speakers with only 20w worth of power.
Click to expand...

There are dedicated speaker amps that he could buy used that would be better than the DTA-100A.

NAD Speaker amps are pretty solid if you find a right one.


----------



## Antagonist

Asus Xonar DG
Superlux HD668B

Is this all I need? Will this be enough for gaming? I really like the total price for these two, only $70.


----------



## jdip

I have a Xonar STX on the way, have to wait until Thursday for it ಠ_ಠ


----------



## f0rld

It seems that people forgot to answer my question or they weren't interested in answering my question. So here the question is again:
I'm looking for a headphones for around 100€ and which doesn't require headphones amp. It must be closed headphones and it must isolate well ambitient noise (like 30dB). Thanks in advance.


----------



## 1rkrage

any closed headphones under $100 for mostly gaming and some alt rock? A700s seem to be at around 130ish, and would like to not spend that (but will if need be)

Reason I want closed is because I play in the same room that the air conditioner is located, so sound isolation is a must.


----------



## DzillaXx

I have the ATH-A700 and love them for music, I find that the A700 sounds better for music while the AD700's are better for gaming. I use a xtremegamer sound card and the headphone amp built into my Logitech G51 speakers as well as the DAC on my Yamaha HTR-5063 while using my HTPC. With a amp the a700's bass will shake your face, and overall music quality is vary good. Also they are closed back, you can blast music and people around you can barley hear it. For the money you can't really beat the A700/AD700 series of headphones, just pick the one that suites you best.


----------



## 1rkrage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I have the ATH-A700 and love them for music, I find that the A700 sounds better for music while the AD700's are better for gaming. I use a xtremegamer sound card the headphone amp built into my Logitech G51 speakers as well as the DAC on my Yamaha HTR-5063. With a amp the a700's bass will shake your face, and overall music quality is vary good. Also they are closed back, you can blast music and people around you can barley hear it. For the money you can't really beat the A700/AD700 series of headphones, just pick the one that suites you best.


but the ad700 seems to not isolate as well. pc is in the same room as air conditioner so sound isolation is a must for me.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1rkrage*
> 
> but the ad700 seems to not isolate as well. pc is in the same room as air conditioner so sound isolation is a must for me.


Correct, the AD series from AT leaks like crazy (as do all open-back headphones). The A700 is hard to beat at its price point (IMHO).


----------



## amadnei

dang a700 seem really good, but its way too expensive :S


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amadnei*
> 
> dang a700 seem really good, but its way too expensive :S


The JVC HARX700 are a well-regarded headphone (although I've not listened to it myself) and can be had for about $35 on Amazon.


----------



## amadnei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> The JVC HARX700 are a well-regarded headphone (although I've not listened to it myself) and can be had for about $35 on Amazon.


Any good headphone in the 60-70$ zone ?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amadnei*
> 
> Any good headphone in the 60-70$ zone ?


I'm not too familiar with that price range but it would help to know what type of listening you'll be doing through them as well as what source and amp (if any) you'll be using.

The Grado SR60i can be had for about $80 (although I'd spend the extra $20 and get the SR80i). But, again this depends on what you'll be listening to.


----------



## amadnei

Ill be getting the xonar DG sound card.

It will be mostly for music and gaming
( listening to about everything but more of dubstep, rap , hip hop )
If possible with bass and close/ semi close


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amadnei*
> 
> Ill be getting the xonar DG sound card.
> It will be mostly for music and gaming
> ( listening to about everything but more of dubstep, rap , hip hop )
> If possible with bass and close/ semi close


The Ultrasone HFI 450 can be had for about $70 on Amazon. Although I've heard other models and plan on getting the 780 for myself at some point, I have not heard the 450 - I'm only recommending it based on my knowledge of the product line and some listening to some of their higher priced items. Heads Up: I do know that many of the Ultrasone headphones are a bit sibilant at first and do require an extended burn-in time (200-300 hrs in some cases) but they do mellow out and the bottom end (at least on the models I've listened to) can compete and most-often surpass many bass-heavy offerings.


----------



## amadnei

''. Heads Up: I do know that many of the Ultrasone headphones are a bit sibilant at first and do require an extended burn-in time (200-300 hrs in some cases) but they do mellow out and the bottom end (at least on the models I've listened to) ''
I didnt get this part :S

but you think like the a700 or something in this range would be good with xonar dg or it would need a even higher sound card ?


----------



## TinDaDragon

Dood

Just got my HARX700

This stuff is amazing for $35. Anyone knows how to make it work with my glasses? It feels a bit uncomfortable, and no, I can't take it off (9/20 vision)

Does the foam mod work well?


----------



## Caz

Bought a Xonar D1...and a GTX480. Both should be here Monday.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amadnei*
> 
> ''. Heads Up: I do know that many of the Ultrasone headphones are a bit sibilant at first and do require an extended burn-in time (200-300 hrs in some cases) but they do mellow out and the bottom end (at least on the models I've listened to) ''
> I didnt get this part :S
> but you think like the a700 or something in this range would be good with xonar dg or it would need a even higher sound card ?


The A700 and Xonar DG would pair nicely.


----------



## Antagonist

What do you guys think about the Superlux HD668B paired with an Asus xonar DG? Mainly for gaming but also some Metal/rock/alternative punk/ and a bit of ska. Budget: under 90$ for total.


----------



## Simca

Rh600 over those for gaming.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE using Tapatalk


----------



## 1rkrage

Which one for best isolation + gaming? _(must be under 150)_

Superlux HD 669

Shure SRH840

AudioTechnica A700


----------



## Simca

Shure has decent isolation, but isn't good for gaming. A700s would win of the 3. Under 150 though, probably the Ultrasone Pro 550s.

or find refurbed A900s.


----------



## 1rkrage

ah ok thanks! I guess i'll look at the a700 and the Ultrasone 550

I badly need good closed cans before I need to turn on the air conditioner daily.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1rkrage*
> 
> ah ok thanks! I guess i'll look at the a700 and the Ultrasone 550
> I badly need good closed cans before I need to turn on the air conditioner daily.


Well let me tell you this, with my A700's While music is playing I can't hear anything, even at low volumes. While nothing is playing you can still hear but muffled, overall they are pretty good. Even with my TV up pretty loud you can't hear it. Also my AC blows a lot of air on high, and with a lot of air movement comes noise and music is still dead quite. Really any over the ear headphone will work pretty well for keeping the sound out


----------



## HydrogenHuman

I always thought Sennheisers were great for overall sound quality. Anyway I purchased a Xonar D1 to pair with my Logitech X-230's lolz. I still like these speakers so I'll probably notice a difference once I install everything.


----------



## 1rkrage

Ok, I think I'm going to be holding off on the A700s for a while. I need two headphones 1 at home and at parents' house anyway; so my plan is to get cheap ones for parents house (JVC HARX700) and try to mod that. If I like the modded version, then I'll just stick with that as well for my apartment


----------



## sc30317

can someone recommend me a low profile, pciE x1 sound card? Trying to find one to fit in my HP N40L


----------



## 1rkrage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sc30317*
> 
> can someone recommend me a low profile, pciE x1 sound card? Trying to find one to fit in my HP N40L


the xonar stuff has included low-profile brackets


----------



## sc30317

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1rkrage*
> 
> the xonar stuff has included low-profile brackets


Are they worth the money over some joe schmoe PCIE card?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sc30317*
> 
> Are they worth the money over some joe schmoe PCIE card?


yes


----------



## Caz

Initial Thoughts on Xonar D1: Exactly how you guys put it...just SO much clearer everything.


----------



## Scars Unseen

I'm currently using a DT880 (600 ohm version) with a little Dot mkIII. Can't speak for the quality yet because I have to get a new sound card(old one was an Auzentech XPlosion... new motherboard has no PCI slots, so I'm currently using onboard). That said, even with the onboard sound there's a very noticeable improvement over my HD280 Pros that I upgraded from.


----------



## admflameberg

After a lot of thinking I did in up going back to the Xonar STX as my source instead of a external dac. I like rolling op-amps to get the sound signature I wanted. Since I know which combos of op-amps i like and don't like. Other then having a idea that I would had not enjoy the external dacs I could afford.

I knew i would like the STX since the last thing i had one, I had a pair of AKG 702 which I liked with the card,.


----------



## Simca

ODA is officially out. You can buy the DAC Amp combo for 300 USD from JDS Labs.

Mine will be shipped soon.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> ODA is officially out. You can buy the DAC Amp combo for 300 USD from JDS Labs.
> Mine will be shipped soon.


Not until the end of May right?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scars Unseen*
> 
> I'm currently using a DT880 (600 ohm version) with a little Dot mkIII. Can't speak for the quality yet because I have to get a new sound card(old one was an Auzentech XPlosion... new motherboard has no PCI slots, so I'm currently using onboard). That said, even with the onboard sound there's a very noticeable improvement over my HD280 Pros that I upgraded from.


Rightfully so, that's a large quality leap. I want to get a pair of DT880's but I have a couple of others in my sights first. Enjoy.


----------



## Rerona

If you guys were limited to Amazon and Newegg with Prime/Free Shipper Savings & Shoprunner 2 day shipping as I live in Hawaii, which headset would you guys recommend for a budget under $200 (though a lil over can be considered if it's worth it)? I will probably be using it mainly for music, gaming is not to huge a concern as I mainly only play MMOs, and movies ever so occasionally. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Audio Technica ATH-A700 for $127 on Amazon. I would enjoy having access to decent bass and the songs I listen to mostly are J-pop/J-rock, Eurobeat, Trance, Techno, and some dubstep. Also I would prefer a closed with some noise reducing as I'd be up late using these. Preferably round the ear too as unfortunately my ears stick out alot and it's painful for long sessions with my ears pressed down.
Also with the mics, I know everyone recommends the Zalman, but is it fine for a household with lots of noises? For me its fine since I'm in my room, but my friend is in need of a mic himself and he is in the living room where dogs, tv, and vacuums make noises all day long.
Another thing I was considering was which of the two sound cards I should go with, the Xonar DX or the STX. If I do get the STX I may be more prone to considering the 650/750 Ultrasone Pro.
Would really appreciate some input as my I had to return a Turtle Beach z6a for breaking within a week that I got as a present. Thanks for any input.


----------



## f0rld

It seems that people forgot to answer my question or they weren't interested in answering my question. So here the question is again:
I'm looking for a headphones for around 100€ and which doesn't require headphones amp. It must be closed headphones and it must isolate well ambitient noise (like 30dB). Thanks in advance.


----------



## admflameberg

@F0rld http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultrasone-PRO-450-Headphones/dp/B006YTTHXW/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336598563&sr=1-2 Ultrasone pro-450 for 79 Euro they dont need to a amp to be used. They are not surround sound headphones they are stereo. It just there drivers are angled.

@Reona You can get a pair of Ultrasone HFI-580's for $128 new off amazon which is a good choice Also DT770 pro 80 is another good choice, I used the Ultrasone HFI-780 my self for which does good for the type of music your listening to. I don't know about J-pop or J-rock but the rest i know for sure. HFI-780 bass is not like HFI-580 bass, as the HFi-780s bass goes deep and hit hard, while the HFI-580 has the amount of bass. Like I mention to F0rld ultrasone headphones are not surround sound headphones, there stereo.


----------



## 1rkrage

just got the Xonar DX and JVC HARX700 today.

so far I'm very pleased. I was hearing things that I didn't hear before in battlefield 3 with onboard + "gaming" headsets. And things are way clearer.

I just wish the HARX700 had a little more bass and was a bit more noise dampening. I can still hear the TV running like I didn't have headphones on, so it's not going to help with air-conditioning







. hopefully the mods i do this weekend will help. if not, I think they're fine for the other house


----------



## Ghooble

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1rkrage*
> 
> I just wish the HARX700 had a little more bass and was actually noise isolating. hopefully the mods i do this weekend will help.


Let me know how they do! I'm considering doing them just for fun as I am already happy with their performance


----------



## Rerona

After considerable more research I have narrowed down my choices to two headphones. BRAINWAVZ HM5 $140 or the Shure SRH840 for $158. Has anyone been able to compare the two?


----------



## iARDAs

I currently own a Creative XFI Titanium soundcard.

Would you guys suggest me to get an Asus card over this or a creative xfi titanium HD?


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I currently own a Creative XFI Titanium soundcard.
> 
> Would you guys suggest me to get an Asus card over this or a creative xfi titanium HD?


Do you have any problems with the Titanium HD? If not, stick with it.

For me, I couldn't get it to sound right with a 5.1 signal which made games sound like crap.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> ODA is officially out. You can buy the DAC Amp combo for 300 USD from JDS Labs.
> Mine will be shipped soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Not until the end of May right?
Click to expand...

Uh..I don't know. I'm ordering the board and having someone assemble it for me. I'm not very handy when it comes to these things, but assembling the pieces yourself saves A LOT of money. The board itself is 100 dollars and that's the steepest part of the ODA. With the pieces for the amplifier and expensive opamps my total should be somewhere around 170 for the DAC amp combo.

Yeah, it ships May 28th. Pre-Order here: http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=39


----------



## admflameberg

A lot of people don't know that GX also control's how the card handle openAL. So if your playing a openAL game and its outputting Stereo over your 5.1 setup even tho you have 5.1 set in both windows and asus xonar config. Enable GX and it will fix that issues. Even if openAL can be done in software, the game may still output in stereo over openAL. Because it has happen to many years ago back when I ran a 5.1 setup with a Xonar HDAV 1.3 as I had to enable it for openAl games.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> A lot of people don't know that GX also control's how the card handle openAL. So if your playing a openAL game and its outputting Stereo over your 5.1 setup even tho you have 5.1 set in both windows and asus xonar config. Enable GX and it will fix that issues. Even if openAL can be done in software, the game may still output in stereo over openAL. Because it has happen to many years ago back when I ran a 5.1 setup with a Xonar HDAV 1.3 as I had to enable it for openAl games.


Yeah, I am having trouble understanding which settings are best...GX, Dolby Headphone, Pro Logic IIx, 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter, PCM, not sure what is real music/sound anymore.


----------



## admflameberg

For music I use HF mode which disable any processing. You don't need GX enabled when your listening to music.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Waiting for my headphones to come back from repairs so I can buy two headphones to review lols:

Takstar HI-2050

and the

Jaycar Pro Monitor Headphones (supposed OEM Fischer Audio FA-003 / Brainwavz HM5, all supposedly the same, OEM'ed by Yoga Electronics)

and need money for the ODAC.....


----------



## MuRRe

Sorry if these has already been mentioned.
I heard some good things about Audio Technica ATH-M50.
Are they any good?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> Sorry if these has already been mentioned.
> I heard some good things about Audio Technica ATH-M50.
> Are they any good?


depends on you needs and whether you can get them below $125 (if you are in the USA).


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> Sorry if these has already been mentioned.
> I heard some good things about Audio Technica ATH-M50.
> Are they any good?


I am planning on getting the M50wh version as my next can. Or maybe DT770s.


----------



## MuRRe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> depends on you needs and whether you can get them below $125 (if you are in the USA).


Nope, not in US so prices are quite different here.
BUT, at 1400 SEK (which is a whooping 190 dollars, I know) they are quite "cheap".
I read A LOT of awesome stuff about them.
Gonna use for music listening through phone/iPod and also for computer.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> I am planning on getting the M50wh version as my next can. Or maybe DT770s.


I want the white ones too but can only find the black ones as coil version









EDIT: Found DT770 80ohm for the same price, which ones should I go for?
Note though, I want to able to listen to the headphones with my built in soundcard or iPod.


----------



## jdip

I have the white ones. They're awesome


----------



## iARDAs

I currently own a Creative XFI titanium card and ver very happy with it.

Should i make a switch to the HD version?

Would i see a definite improvement? I mainly game by the way.


----------



## MuRRe

Are the ATH-M50 ok as a walk around headphone?
I like to listening to music while taking the dog for a walk.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> Are the ATH-M50 ok as a walk around headphone?
> I like to listening to music while taking the dog for a walk.


They are full sized but if you are ok with that then they will be fine. They won't fall off.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> I want the white ones too but can only find the black ones as coil version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Found DT770 80ohm for the same price, which ones should I go for?
> Note though, I want to able to listen to the headphones with my built in soundcard or iPod.


Look for ATH-M50wh.

I would go with the DT770s, but it depends if you want aesthetics...in which case the wh's are sexier than 09' Megan Fox naked.....maybe.

DT's are more receptive to EQ/Amping from what I know.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> I have the white ones. They're awesome










Rep, just for that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> Are the ATH-M50 ok as a walk around headphone?
> I like to listening to music while taking the dog for a walk.


The cable is 10ft long...you could do what I did and customize them, and cut the cables down so they are smaller...but it gets tricky.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Look for ATH-M50wh.
> I would go with the DT770s, but it depends if you want aesthetics...in which case the wh's are sexier than 09' Megan Fox naked.....maybe.
> DT's are more receptive to EQ/Amping from what I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep, just for that.
> The cable is 10ft long...you could do what I did and customize them, and cut the cables down so they are smaller...but it gets tricky.












As for the straight cable being too long, you can braid it like most people to make it more portable.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the straight cable being too long, you can braid it like most people to make it more portable.


Hmm...not sure if that is good for the wires.....


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Hmm...not sure if that is good for the wires.....


Well I don't have experience with it personally but a ton of people seem to do this with long straight cable headphones and I haven't heard of any problems.


----------



## MoMann

Hello, I was thinking about getting the Denon 2000's but I do not want the cord to break, so I was wondering if it does how do I fix it?


----------



## admflameberg

Yea, thats something I would never do to any headphone.Might as well get a headphone with coiled cable.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Well I don't have experience with it personally but a ton of people seem to do this with long straight cable headphones and I haven't heard of any problems.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> Yea, thats something I would never do to any headphone.Might as well get a headphone with coiled cable.


It scares me a bit. I don't mean to be one of those guys...but my grandfather was a wiring tech during WWII...as far back as that is...he knows his ****...and tells me all the time to protect my wires on everything I own...says they are very fragile compared to how they should be manufactured. He tells me that if I am going to wrap them in any way, to make sure I am giving them a 3-4" diameter on the circles.

I made my XB500s a 12" cable instead of a 4ft long one...gonna totally rewire them and my AD700s soon...just need the know how on it.

Pix.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## MuRRe

The reason I asked about walking around with the ATH-M50s is that with some headsets+movement you get sounds coming from it because of the up and down motion that you get from walking around


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> The reason I asked about walking around with the ATH-M50s is that with some headsets+movement you get sounds coming from it because of the up and down motion that you get from walking around


lol and that started a debate on cable braiding.

Anyway, I don't have that problem when walking with mine.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Waiting for my headphones to come back from repairs so I can buy two headphones to review lols:
> 
> Takstar HI-2050
> 
> and the
> 
> Jaycar Pro Monitor Headphones (supposed OEM Fischer Audio FA-003 / Brainwavz HM5, all supposedly the same, OEM'ed by Yoga Electronics)
> 
> and need money for the ODAC.....


Once my ODA comes in I'm looking at jumping to a HIFI-Man HE-400, but the complaints on the leather headband is concerning.

I hear it's also a heavy beast.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> lol and that started a debate on cable braiding.
> Anyway, I don't have that problem when walking with mine.


Yeah, really.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Will update with a wee 'guide' on determining whether your headphones would suffer from output impedance clashes / issues.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Once my ODA comes in I'm looking at jumping to a HIFI-Man HE-400, but the complaints on the leather headband is concerning.
> I hear it's also a heavy beast.


mmmmm...can't be worse than the AKG K701 headband *shudders*
Might consider sending the Jaycar one to Tyll @ Headroom to measure them properly to truly see if they are the same as the FA-003.
I won't use them anyway so might as well

for science!

That or ask Yoga electronics lols. Tyll is 'Plan B' if Yoga don't want to reveal for business reasons.


----------



## Simca

I don't know dawwg, i herd da hedband perty rawww


----------



## admflameberg

I didn't have issues with the AKG 702 headband but then my AFro Stoped it from hurting my head. All it did was put it impression into my AFro.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Will add the ODAC with notes on the others!

Loving my calibrated Toneboosters Isone for music. EQ'ed the line to match the beyerdynamic T1's frequency response graph (based off the differences between the DT880 and T1 off Headroom's graphs) as the T1 is the closest to neutral you can get for headphones (note that neutral for headphones is not flatline like in speakers).
You must calibrate Isone from it'as default settings, particularly for HRTF.

The developer of it is one of the computer engineers that helped engineer the mp4 standard!
The projects above is his side hobby lols. Rather buy a product from a proven, highly qualified acoustics and computer science scientist









Do note that you must understand some basic acoustic scientific / sound production theory to use it properly lols (so you know what you are doing with each setting).
The product is more intended for production purposes but meh, music playback is great for it.

Easily one of the most realistic 'crossfeeds' available for music and dirt cheap too.

Creative have butchered CMSS-3D and EAX's potential for gaming. They took gaming, sound wise, back quite a few years and still hasn't recovered.


----------



## MuRRe

I can't find the ATH-M50s in the list, is there a reason for this?
Are they simply not good gaming/music headphones?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> I can't find the ATH-M50s in the list, is there a reason for this?
> Are they simply not good gaming/music headphones?


very poor for gaming, more an oversight on the 'bassy' headphones subsection. It's only good at the $100 price point otherwise at the $125 price point, it's beaten by the Shure SRH750DJ and at the $150 price point by the Ultrasone PRO550, for bassy headphones.


----------



## MuRRe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> very poor for gaming, more an oversight on the 'bassy' headphones subsection. It's only good at the $100 price point otherwise at the $125 price point, it's beaten by the Shure SRH750DJ and at the $150 price point by the Ultrasone PRO550, for bassy headphones.


Wait, the SRH750DJ are BETTER than ATH-M50?
Cause I can get the SRH750DJ cheaper.
Though they aren't on the list...?

EDIT: I'm gonna use my headphones for listening to music mainly, would I be better of with a pair of Sennheiser HD598?

EDIT2: The price is the same for ATH-M50 and DT770 Pro 80 Ohm, the problem is, I do need an amplifier for the DT770 if I wanna use my phone or iPod?

EDIT3: Ok, is THIS a good combo? DT770 80 + E11 or DT770 250 + E11?
How big off a difference between E11 and E17, do I really need the E17?
So basically, if I get an Amp (E11) I can aswell go for the 250? If I get an amp should I still buy an Asus Xonar Dg or can I stick with the on board sound card?
Could I even get away with a E5?


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> very poor for gaming, more an oversight on the 'bassy' headphones subsection. It's only good at the $100 price point otherwise at the $125 price point, it's beaten by the Shure SRH750DJ and at the $150 price point by the Ultrasone PRO550, for bassy headphones.


....But...the...whites....are SO DANG SEXY!


----------



## MuRRe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> ....But...the...whites....are SO DANG SEXY!


Yeah, I can't decide.
My take from READING

ATH-M50
Pro: Easy to power, doesn't need an amp.
Con: Not good for many hours of listening.

DT770 80:
Pro: VERY comfy
Con: Need amp

:/


----------



## admflameberg

Murre the Xonar DG/DGX go for like 29-40 dollars and has a decent enough amp to handle the DT 770 pro-80.


----------



## jdip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> Yeah, I can't decide.
> My take from READING
> ATH-M50
> Pro: Easy to power, doesn't need an amp.
> Con: Not good for many hours of listening.
> DT770 80:
> Pro: VERY comfy
> Con: Need amp
> :/


I find M50s very comfortable and I can wear them all day without any pain. The only thing is they can get a bit sweaty.


----------



## godofdeath

does the audio technica ath-ad700 need amp?

does it work using the output from the onboard audio?


----------



## Gled

Hi, guys!

What is the best sound card for gaming in price range of £100? I don`t know nothing about sound cards, at the moment I have ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z LGA1155 integrated sound card. And is there even any point of upgrading, if I`m using Razer Carcharias as my headset?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *godofdeath*
> 
> does the audio technica ath-ad700 need amp?
> does it work using the output from the onboard audio?


It doesn't need anything particularly special, compared to many other headphones of that quality and better. The onboard audio can drive headphones (just not incredibly well, and without enough volume for a lot of higher-end headphones not including AD700), so just use that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gled*
> 
> Hi, guys!
> What is the best sound card for gaming in price range of £100? I don`t know nothing about sound cards, at the moment I have ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z LGA1155 integrated sound card. And is there even any point of upgrading, if I`m using Razer Carcharias as my headset?


There's not really a point to upgrading unless you want to get the cheapest Creative sound card that supports CMSS-3D and mess with that, or the cheapest Asus (or other?) that supports Dolby Headphone, or something like that.

In other words, in terms of clarity or whatever kind of descriptions of audio quality you want to throw out, you're better off upgrading the headset. But if you want some kind of virtual surround processing, that could be useful-just get whatever is cheap that supports what you want to use.


----------



## chinesekiwi

the AD700 is very current efficient so it won't need any sort of added amping.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *godofdeath*
> 
> does the audio technica ath-ad700 need amp?
> does it work using the output from the onboard audio?


Lol...I'll be the 3rd person to comment on this. Nope!

Although, after getting my Xonar D1...I can tell that they #1, are easily amped...so they can be tweaked a lot. #2, make me want more expensive cans.


----------



## MuRRe

Ok!
So I went to a local store and tried them both.
I'm far from an expert, you could say I'm a noob when it comes to sound.
Anyways, in the end I couldn't decide because of sound so I went with comfort and took the D770.

BUT, did I make a mistake?
I could have had the D990 Pro for the same price... should I have taken them instead?


----------



## TUDJ

If you chose the one you prefer then you made the right choice!


----------



## MuRRe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUDJ*
> 
> If you chose the one you prefer then you made the right choice!


I didn't try the DT990 Pro, didn't think about until I came home (with the DT770) and saw that the price is the same :/.


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUDJ*
> 
> If you chose the one you prefer then you made the right choice!


Agreed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> I didn't try the DT990 Pro, didn't think about until I came home (with the DT770) and saw that the price is the same :/.


First, what local store sells cans?! I want a store like that around here. Jeesh.

And 770s are closed I think. 990s are Open. Its all based on what you are doing with them. But really...not a HUGE deal. If you want to, I am sure you can make them 990s somehow.


----------



## MuRRe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Agreed.
> First, what local store sells cans?! I want a store like that around here. Jeesh.
> And 770s are closed I think. 990s are Open. Its all based on what you are doing with them. But really...not a HUGE deal. If you want to, I am sure you can make them 990s somehow.


English isn't my first language, so probably I have misused the word "local store". It is a music store in the neighbor city to where I live.

So, the DT990 Pro is not straight over a better headphone than DT770?


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuRRe*
> 
> English isn't my first language, so probably I have misused the word "local store". It is a music store in the neighbor city to where I live.
> So, the DT990 Pro is not straight over a better headphone than DT770?


They aren't better or worse than each other...its a matter of what you are using them for. 770s=better for monitoring, bassier music, and movies sometimes. 990s=better for competitive gaming, sound stage focusing music (Even on Highs, Mids, and Lows...or slightly low lacking), and better for your TV shows that you get intense with...like me...I like knowing every detail about house...so I amp up my AD700s when watching so I know some details that others don't. Don't judge me.


----------



## Casjo

Got a little question for the audio gurus in here.

I'm looking for some budget speakers (because summer and AD700 headphones is a dangerous mix), and I'm inclined to buy the M-Audio AV40s. I listen to metal mainly, but also classic and the random J-Pop, I also watch movies every now and then and play videogames (mostly sim racers). I don't need something with lots of bass (I'm used to the AD700s and they don't exactly have a lot of it) and I could always add a subwoofer later. Their price is also attractive.

So, would you recommend them?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Casjo*
> 
> Got a little question for the audio gurus in here.
> I'm looking for some budget speakers (because summer and AD700 headphones is a dangerous mix), and I'm inclined to buy the M-Audio AV40s. I listen to metal mainly, but also classic and the random J-Pop, I also watch movies every now and then and play videogames (mostly sim racers). I don't need something with lots of bass (I'm used to the AD700s and they don't exactly have a lot of it) and I could always add a subwoofer later. Their price is also attractive.
> So, would you recommend them?


I'm certainly no guru but the AV40 is a nice sounding (and popular) speaker. Coming from the AD700's, you should really be able to appreciate the speakers, especially since you're not too worried about the bottom end.

However, I do remember that the BX5a's were around the same price for a short time (~$150 if I remember correctly). In that case, I'd take those over the AV40's. GL


----------



## lb_felipe

Has anyone experience with these?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/KRK_Systems/KNS_6400/1.html

_"Good gaming performance"_


----------



## MoMann

Is there a place online where I can buy the Ultrasone 750's and if I do not like them send them back?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568390-REG/Ultrasone_PRO_750_PRO_750_Closed_Back_Professional.html If I do not want them can I send them back?

Also, I noticed that on the OP under headsets you said you do not reccomend headsets. But then I was wondering how will you talk to your teammates (PC, and PS3)


----------



## Rerona

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoMann*
> 
> Is there a place online where I can buy the Ultrasone 750's and if I do not like them send them back?
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568390-REG/Ultrasone_PRO_750_PRO_750_Closed_Back_Professional.html If I do not want them can I send them back?
> Also, I noticed that on the OP under headsets you said you do not reccomend headsets. But then I was wondering how will you talk to your teammates (PC, and PS3)


Usually if you want to just try something before purchasing, it's recommended you look for a local store with demos. As for online, usually once you open it it's considered used if you get it new. You could consider purchasing used ones from an online retailer, but you will in 99% scenario have to pay return shipping and/or restocking fees.

For chat you will either buy a clip on/desktop mic such as the Zalman zm-mic1 or a simple logitech desktop mic for the PC, and for the PS3 from what I understand you need a external device such as a mixamp or on the cheaper ends:
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamode-USB-SOUND7-7-1-Channel-External-Digital/dp/B004FE6UCE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1337299298&sr=8-7


----------



## MoMann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rerona*
> 
> Usually if you want to just try something before purchasing, it's recommended you look for a local store with demos. As for online, usually once you open it it's considered used if you get it new. You could consider purchasing used ones from an online retailer, but you will in 99% scenario have to pay return shipping and/or restocking fees.
> For chat you will either buy a clip on/desktop mic such as the Zalman zm-mic1 or a simple logitech desktop mic for the PC, and for the PS3 from what I understand you need a external device such as a mixamp or on the cheaper ends:
> http://www.amazon.com/Dynamode-USB-SOUND7-7-1-Channel-External-Digital/dp/B004FE6UCE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1337299298&sr=8-7


That link was just what I was looking for! Also could I hook my E17 into it?


----------



## Rerona

There are cheaper options btw, I just listed one on random. I haven't done any research on these since I personally use a MixAmp. So before you choose I suggest more research into the quality. They can run as low as 2 dollars such as this one
http://www.amazon.com/External-Adapter-Desktop-Notebook-Laptop/dp/B0019SVUQK/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337300352&sr=1-3

and as expensive as 130 such as the Astro MixAmp

As for the Fiio E17, I believe it's more recommended to use the Toslink.


----------



## MoMann

Dont know what a toslink is so I think I will just find a nice USB one


----------



## Rerona

toslink is the optical digital, and they look like this:
http://mego.o106.com/files/toslink.jpg

It's a matter of preference but here's a good thread to understand the benefits of each

http://www.head-fi.org/t/527442/optical-toslink-vs-usb-which-connection-is-better-to-connect-a-dac


----------



## MoMann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rerona*
> 
> toslink is the optical digital, and they look like this:
> http://mego.o106.com/files/toslink.jpg
> It's a matter of preference but here's a good thread to understand the benefits of each
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/527442/optical-toslink-vs-usb-which-connection-is-better-to-connect-a-dac


Hmm ok thanks!


----------



## chinesekiwi

As it's nearing ODAC release time, it's time to include it. Also edited out the DIY DAC sections as really, although it's fun to learn some electrical engineering skills building one, it's counter productive vs mass production of well engineered soundcards. DACs are *much* harder to get right electrical engineering wise vs. amps.

Also included the Fiio E10 as the E10 is much better for the same price over the now outdated E7.
Great quality sound gets cheaper and cheaper!


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> As it's nearing ODAC release time, it's time to include it. Also edited out the DIY DAC sections as really, although it's fun to learn some electrical engineering skills building one, it's counter productive vs mass production of well engineered soundcards. DACs are *much* harder to get right electrical engineering wise vs. amps.
> Also included the Fiio E10 as the E10 is much better for the same price over the now outdated E7.
> Great quality sound gets cheaper and cheaper!


Happen to know the DAC for the E10?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Happen to know the DAC for the E10?


It should be Wolfson WM8740.
http://mp4nation.net/catalog/fiio-e10-usb-dac-amp-96k24bit-p-653.html

However, the actual E10 doesn't get close to reaching the specs on the spec sheet for that part. Values on the spec sheet are with fairly optimized circuits, in a lab environment, probably with a bench power supply and definitely no stray EMI to screw up results, and so on. This is very common in a lot of audio products, to fall significantly short. Even worse, a lot of companies, even motherboard manufacturers with onboard audio, are quoting values off of the spec sheet, which is pretty much flat-out lying. See here (though I won't say that I necessarily agree with every opinion here, check the results for yourself):
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/01/fiio-e10-dac.html

It's still a way better value than a lot of alternatives though.


----------



## 3930K

Any thoughts about the Xonar Phoebus?
Still not sure what my audi setup's going to be, and I'm considering this. I will do gaming, but I will also do music (sometimes alone, sometimes while doing Photoshop) and a tiny bit of vid editing.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Any thoughts about the Xonar Phoebus?
> Still not sure what my audi setup's going to be, and I'm considering this. I will do gaming, but I will also do music (sometimes alone, sometimes while doing Photoshop) and a tiny bit of vid editing.


Thanks for bringing the card up. I had JUST gotten the chance to try out the Phoebus on Sunday (yesterday) at a friends house. The reason I had waited so long to try it out is because none of my friends bought it until now and I definitely wasn't trying to buy it.

Here are our thoughts on the card. It's not at all an upgrade from an STX. It's an alternative to the STX. We agree that it's in no way superior to the STX sound quality wise. In fact it's most likely inferior to the STX in sound quality. The amp section on the Phoebus and the STX are seemingly EXACTLY the same. Almost no difference there. As far as gaming goes, it's better than an STX.....when it works..The Phoebus has a lot of issues with games at the moment. I'm pretty sure that's a driver issue and I haven't tried it with any other drivers like Unified drivers or anything. After some light research, we were able to find that A LOT of people are having issues with the Pheobus in games.

Assuming this problem is fixed eventually, the Phoebus will be a more gamer geared card than the STX...

But I will never recommend this card as an alternative to the STX.

First off, this card is 200 dollars. 2nd, it's inferior to the STX in sound quality. Third, the amp section is exactly the same as the current STX. Fourth, the card has issues with some games. Fifth, if you really wanted a sound card for gaming, you wouldn't bother with this card because you would buy the Titanium HD for much cheaper.

I was so disappointed that I wanted to come on OCN and type about it, but by the time I got home, I had forgotten about it because of how uninterested I was in it.

I also had the chance to review the creative Recon 3D (80 dollar one, not the 200 dollar one).

From what I hear there is no difference between the 80 dollar version and the 200 dollar version other than the shield.

That said, as far as SQ goes the Recon 3D is.....not good. I'd say there was almost no difference between on board and the Recon 3D. You could just barely pick apart the slight bump in clarity over on board. Don't get this card for music. Don't even think about it.

The mids and highs were WAY too high and harsh for a sound card. In that respect I prefer on board over this card. The card comes with a built in amp which I didn't even use so I won't comment on it, but I'm thinking it's crap.

The quad core crap that's supposed to be all ooo and wow was ...well, useless. I have no idea what it did.

Now, I'll be fair and say that as far as positioning goes...it did well. I think that the bumped up mids and highs attributed to it's "goodness" in gaming, but the overall card's performance in multiple games was enough to warrant a nod in the gaming department. As far as "Scout" mode goes..I'm not really a fan. It's good in some games and useless in others. Scout mode is supposed to make certain sounds pop out more than others like footsteps. Yeah..I noticed it working in some games, but others I heard no difference. It's completely game dependent. Comparing the Recon 3D to the Titanium HD as far as gaming goes...the Recon3D.......is....better....than the TiHD.. What I mean to say is that the surround sound feeling was more natural and overall better than the TiHD, but the TiHD makes up for it by having crisper, clearer sounds and...awkwardly because the freakin' card has a quad-core chip...I feel the TiHD handled more complex sounds better than the Recon3D.

What the flip is the purpose of a quad core sound card if it's not even helping process sounds?

Again, I have no idea what the quad core chip thing did, but it wasn't at all noticeable. I figured it would at least take complex sounds and make them sound marvelous. It didn't even do that. IMO, the Recon 3D is worth..no more than 50 dollars. I would only ever think about using it for gaming. I would never listen to this sound card for music.

OH, another thing I forgot to mention about this card is it has NO DYNAMIC RANGE WHATSOEVER. Drops in music are unheard of. This card offers no dynamic range. Everything is loud all the time.

Anyway..I can't recommend either of these cards and for that reason they're not going to be added to the list. I'll link this post on the first page for all those that want to know what the Phoebus and Recon3D sound like.

Needless to say, both of these cards were returned. The Phoebus has too many issues in games, the Recon3D sucks too much to warrant keeping SQ wise.

On the plus side, the software and drivers on the Recon3D are fabulous.

See, I said something nice about it?


----------



## 3930K

What would you reccomentd for headphones, speakers and sound cards for 500 pounds when I'm doing 50/50 gaming and music?0


----------



## devastadus

Simca, when you say the phobeus is better then the STX for gamming what do you mean exactly? I want to know what you are hearing that makes the phobeus better for gamming. Thanks


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Does the Pheobeus still have issues in games when you disable GX or whatever they're using now? GX never really worked properly on the Xonar line either.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> What would you reccomentd for headphones, speakers and sound cards for 500 pounds when I'm doing 50/50 gaming and music?0


I would use the speakers solely for music. The headphones solely for gaming and use this guide to find out what would be best for you from there on out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devastadus*
> 
> Simca, when you say the phobeus is better then the STX for gamming what do you mean exactly? I want to know what you are hearing that makes the phobeus better for gamming. Thanks


The ability to hear footsteps, hearing sound effects such as bushes rustling or bullets flying by around you. The ability to tell the direction from which a sound is coming and have a good distance to hear those sounds. That's why I take as being useful for gaming. I felt the Pheobus made it easier to hear those important sounds in games. I felt the environment felt more natural than the STX. The STX's soundstage often times sounded faux/created and wasn't actual. I also thought the STX's ability to produce sounds behind you wasn't that great. There was a 20-30 degree area behind you that sound was sort of void. It would skip from the left to the right side pretty fast. I felt the TiHD did this better than the STX. The Pheobus did that better than the STX.

But the Phoebus is barely better than the STX and is inferior to the TiHD.

So I can't even recommend it over the STX.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Does the Pheobeus still have issues in games when you disable GX or whatever they're using now? GX never really worked properly on the Xonar line either.


Can't say, I never used GX mode. I found it horrid on the DX and didn't bother trying on the Pheobus.


----------



## lb_felipe

Does anyone know if Audioengine DS1 or Audioengine DS2 is compatible with Emotiva Pro airmotiv 4?

Emotiva Pro airmotiv 4: http://emotivapro.com/products/powered_monitors/airmotiv4.php

Audioengine DS1: http://audioengineusa.com/DS1-Desktop-Stand-Pair

Audioengine DS2: http://audioengineusa.com/DS2-Desktop-Stand-Pair

If no, is there any alternative to them?


----------



## longroadtrip

Neither of those will fit the Emotivas properly...this is what you want...works really well









I use them myself!


----------



## lb_felipe

Thank you very much!

What you'd have wouldn't be this?

There are this and this. Which is of these more suitable to speakers of those dimensions?


----------



## longroadtrip

The speakerdudes are better suited for bookshelf speakers, but are made of the same material as the MoPads. I use the levelers from the MoPads, you just put them side by side. Either set would work for you, just look at the speaker dimensions and the dimensions of the pads to find the best fit for you.

The Emotivas are 6.1" wide by 7.3" deep
The speaker dudes are 8.5" wide by 11" deep (you can cut them down to size)
The MoPads are 4" wide by 12" deep (you can put them side by side and cut them down to size also)


----------



## lb_felipe

Thank you.

What are the alternatives to NHT PVC-PC. This stuff is for one hundred dollars. That's a lot for a device that does only set the volume (it isn't a preamplifier).

NHT PVC-PC: http://www.nhthifi.com/passive_volume_control_PVC_PC?sc=12&category=1215

I know that Airmotiv 4s have volume controllers in themselves, but want a handy controller, central and general control.


----------



## wompwomp

Where can I find some M-Audio BX5a for $150? They seem to be $200 everywhere. Also, there seems to be a D2 version of the M-Audio BX5a. Anyone have any information on this?


----------



## chinesekiwi

^
Fixed. People are welcome to let us know about price changes. Updated the guide with new pricing and added the Shure SRH750DJ for bassy headphones.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Thank you.
> What are the alternatives to NHT PVC-PC. This stuff is for one hundred dollars. That's a lot for a device that does only set the volume (it isn't a preamplifier).
> NHT PVC-PC: http://www.nhthifi.com/passive_volume_control_PVC_PC?sc=12&category=1215
> I know that Airmotiv 4s have volume controllers in themselves, but want a handy controller, central and general control.


A bit much for some inputs, outputs and a potentiometer, no?


----------



## lb_felipe

Yes, it's.


----------



## Lithinous

Hi. I've been trying to figure out what sound equipment for my computer. I was thinking of the Asus Essence ST but I'm not sure if it's any good for gaming. Also I will be using headphones doing a good bit of gaming and some music.

Thanks


----------



## CoD511

Very helpful thread, cheers! Settled on the ASUS Xonar DX and Audio Technica AD700


----------



## Dave222

im planning on getting Superlux 668B for gaming but since they are semi-opened headphones im scared that they will leak sound and wont isolate much. Any1 had any experience with them so they can tell me how they sound for gaming? Thanks


----------



## wanako

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dave222*
> 
> im planning on getting Superlux 668B for gaming but since they are semi-opened headphones im scared that they will leak sound and wont isolate much. Any1 had any experience with them so they can tell me how they sound for gaming? Thanks


I believe these are similar to the SR850s which do leak sound. If you're in a quiet place like in a library or something, you'll hear it. At home, sometimes my wife thinks that I'm playing sounds at high volume because she can hear the leak. I had to explain to her that this is not the case. So yeah, they leak a noticeable amount of sound. For gaming they should be pretty good and should have a large sound-stage. Again, this is with my experience with SR850s which I believe are similar to the 668Bs


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Where can I find some M-Audio BX5a for $150? They seem to be $200 everywhere. Also, there seems to be a D2 version of the M-Audio BX5a. Anyone have any information on this?


Was $150 for a long time. Now 170.

http://www.uniquesquared.com/m-audio-bx5a-deluxe-active-studio-monitor-pair-2.html


----------



## Antagonist

As a verified owner for the Superlux hd668b paired with an Asus Xonar DG, I approve this message. They do leak, but not a huge amount. The sound quality is AMAZING for gaming.


----------



## iARDAs

Is anyonere here using the Asus Vulcan headset?

I am thinking of purchasing one.

I recently bought a *AKG GHS 1 *however the mic quality is not great and there is no voice cancellation.

I am looking into the Asus Vulcan and the beyerdynamic MX2.

I will be using my Creative XFI titanium soundcard with this headset.

Thank you

Edit : Also what about Sennheiser PC350. It is at 130$ on amazon. PC360 is more expensive.


----------



## sticks435

What do you all think about the X-Fi Titanium to replace what I think is a dying XtremeGamer? There is a guy about 30 mins away selling one for $50. Still in good working order, he just didn't have room for it in his tri-SLI setup. I pretty much just game and watch youtube on my computer. Have a dedicated HT for music, etc.

Also, what is best for gaming? Speakers or headphones? I currently use Altec Lansing 251's that I bought at walmart at least 10 years ago. I love dedicated 5.1 for gaming, but either the speakers or my soundcard is failing, because the sound field doesn't stay consistent when watching video's or gaming. It seems almost everyone on here uses headphones, but for some reason I could never bring myself to buy a pair. Figured dedicated 5.1 speakers were always better.


----------



## Kieran

Extremely helpful thread, just ordered myself the Creative T3130's


----------



## senna89

Why u raccomande the M-AUDIO MV40 ? i read many negative opinions about its reliability and inaccurate sound.

too directional, if you move slightly, the sound quality worsen much drammatically and the bass is too artificial, is it true story ?
And quality controls problem because there are many defects.


----------



## Crizume

I finally ordered a Creative Titanium as from reading this forum I feel will fit my needs the best. 70% games 30% music. It is scheduled for delivery tomorrow and I have a couple questions since this is my first foray into sound cards.
As with video cards do I install sound card, boot, and then apply necessary driver and firmware updates or vice versa?
I remember reading and don't remember if it was the creative cards or the asus that required the custom driver that people linked to perform at their best?
Lastly does the creative titanium come with a control panel in windows and if so can someone get me started on calibrating and optimizing for 7.1 gaming and 2.0 music.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is my first foray into "REAL" Audio quality since I always just viewed it as a side grade since I read this forum. Most notably with the last question as I would have no clue how to change equalizer settings or what exactly I am looking for in audio changes.


----------



## pangolinman

I'll just point out that in the OP, it states that you can find the KRK Rockit8s for $220 used.
Where did you get this from? I mean you can find them for $230 new, but that is a single speaker.
I haven't been able to find anything close to $220 for a pair of them.


----------



## Simca

I think I meant to type 320. Will update.


----------



## bigal1542

I know you guys don't recommend headsets, but if I NEED a headset, what would the recommended be? Would it still be the MMX 300?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I currently have ATH-700s with the velour earpads. How do the MMX-300s compare comfortwise, if anyone has tried both?


----------



## chinesekiwi

beyerdynamic consumer full size headphones are always comfortable, so you won't need to worry about that.

the MMX300 would be best sound quality wise, but the mic is reported by some to be sub-par. A headset with good quality sound (not as good as MMX300) and a good mic is the Sennheiser PC360.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> beyerdynamic consumer full size headphones are always comfortable, so you won't need to worry about that.
> the MMX300 would be best sound quality wise, but the mic is reported by some to be sub-par. A headset with good quality sound (not as good as MMX300) and a good mic is the Sennheiser PC360.


Sweet sounds good. Thank you very much!


----------



## 1rkrage

I just tested my new Creative Aurvana live from Creative's latest sale for $60. These things sound better than my modded JVC HARX700.

Also it has slightly better noise isolation. Helps with the air conditioner a bit. You can still hear it but not a bit dampened compared to the HARX700's

I also like the looser fit. It is way more comfortable with eyeglasses than the HARX700.

The only thing I don't like are the thin cables. It seems like I would break them easily. I guess when that happens I'll just mod it with thicker cables.


----------



## Crizume

I installed my newly purchased Creative titanium and so far so good. I can already tell a difference in positional audio and distance. Music also sound a little better but I am no audiophile.

My only question is what should I should I change in each setting ("game" mode/ "entertainment" mode) to better my sound experience for both gaming and music. This is my first foray into sound card audio and any tips/help would be appreciated.


----------



## bigal1542

Hey guys,

I know these might be stupid questions, but here goes...

Does a sound card count as an amp? In the recommendations an reviews it will say an amp is needed. Or would I need a sound card AND an amp?

Also, where is the sweet spot for closed headphones used for gaming? I am thinking 100-300ish but if you really get much more above that I could make it happen.


----------



## Fortunex

Sound cards have amps in them, just usually not powerful enough for a set of high end headphones. If it says it needs an amp, it either needs a high end sound card with a good built-in amp or an external amp.

And ~$150-$250 is the sweet spot. In there you've got Ultrasone HFI 780s, Audio Technica ATH-A900s, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros, Shure SRH840s, and just a little bit higher up and you've got Denon D2000s.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Sound cards have amps in them, just usually not powerful enough for a set of high end headphones. If it says it needs an amp, it either needs a high end sound card with a good built-in amp or an external amp.
> And ~$150-$250 is the sweet spot. In there you've got Ultrasone HFI 780s, Audio Technica ATH-A900s, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros, Shure SRH840s, and just a little bit higher up and you've got Denon D2000s.


Awesome, thanks for the help! +rep

Is there a reliable way to tell which soundcards have good amps and which don't? Or would it just be best to post here when comparing them?

If it helps, here are some details:
- 90% gaming, 10% movies/music
- PCI Express x1 interface (only open slot)
- $200ish price range (depends on where the sweet spot is)


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Awesome, thanks for the help! +rep
> Is there a reliable way to tell which soundcards have good amps and which don't? Or would it just be best to post here when comparing them?
> If it helps, here are some details:
> - 90% gaming, 10% movies/music
> - PCI Express x1 interface (only open slot)
> - $200ish price range (depends on where the sweet spot is)


It's partly a matter of perspective. If you plug headphones into the jack, you're going to get sound. Some sound cards have the output buffered by some combination of electronics suitable for high current output and not too high output impedance (desired characteristics to drive headphones); others just use a traditional line output configuration that may be okay with headphones but aren't really the proper tools for the job. It's not really a black-and-white kind of situation.

Also, some may be good for some headphones and not so much for others-maybe too much output impedance for some (so screws up the frequency response), maybe not enough current for some (so clipping), maybe not enough voltage for some (so it doesn't get loud enough), and so on.

Generally if a sound card advertises having a headphone amp suitable for X headphones, then they probably designed the output at least partially with headphones in mind. If they talk about a certain impedance range, that doesn't mean too much of anything other than marketing trying to oversimplify things so as to not confuse buyers. Better to look at it on a case-by-case basis.

Given your description, Asus Xonar Essence STX is the obvious choice. However, note that there are external USB options that work just fine too. To be honest, I'd rather not cram sensitive analog electronics (read: sound card) right next to two power-hog, electrically noisy graphics cards anyway. You can get unlucky and end up with weird background noises and definitely a higher noise floor as a result.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> It's partly a matter of perspective. If you plug headphones into the jack, you're going to get sound. Some sound cards have the output buffered by some combination of electronics suitable for high current output and not too high output impedance (desired characteristics to drive headphones); others just use a traditional line output configuration that may be okay with headphones but aren't really the proper tools for the job. It's not really a black-and-white kind of situation.
> Also, some may be good for some headphones and not so much for others-maybe too much output impedance for some (so screws up the frequency response), maybe not enough current for some (so clipping), maybe not enough voltage for some (so it doesn't get loud enough), and so on.
> Generally if a sound card advertises having a headphone amp suitable for X headphones, then they probably designed the output at least partially with headphones in mind. If they talk about a certain impedance range, that doesn't mean too much of anything other than marketing trying to oversimplify things so as to not confuse buyers. Better to look at it on a case-by-case basis.
> Given your description, Asus Xonar Essence STX is the obvious choice. However, note that there are external USB options that work just fine too. To be honest, I'd rather not cram sensitive analog electronics (read: sound card) right next to two power-hog, electrically noisy graphics cards anyway. You can get unlucky and end up with weird background noises and definitely a higher noise floor as a result.


Sounds great. Extremely helpful information. +rep

Right now, I am using a Creative USB HD. What would be an upgrade from that, or is it good enough?

As for the graphics cards, they aren't too loud and rarely run the fans above 70%. If I do use an internal sound card, it would be on the cooling side of the card, rather than the PCB side.

I am leaning towards the DT 770 Pros for the headphones I think.


----------



## eftj

Do you think I would benefit from a dedicated sound card, like the ASUS Xonar DG for use with my Sennheiser HD380 Pro?


----------



## 1rkrage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eftj*
> 
> Do you think I would benefit from a dedicated sound card, like the ASUS Xonar DG for use with my Sennheiser HD380 Pro?


yes. I was amused at how well my $5 "multimedia" headphones sounded with the DG at my parents' house. It's going to sound even better with a better pair of headphones









The DG also has a built in amp so that should help.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Sounds great. Extremely helpful information. +rep
> Right now, I am using a Creative USB HD. What would be an upgrade from that, or is it good enough?
> As for the graphics cards, they aren't too loud and rarely run the fans above 70%. If I do use an internal sound card, it would be on the cooling side of the card, rather than the PCB side.
> I am leaning towards the DT 770 Pros for the headphones I think.


I was talking about the electrical noise, not acoustic fan noise, from the graphics cards. Fast on/off switching of the VRMs dirtying the power, maybe stray EMI from them coupling in, and so on, are not the most friendly circumstances for nearby electronics.

Creative X-Fi HD USB is probably just fine. I wouldn't upgrade that. I don't know exactly how it's internally configured, but it does use a classic and cheap (but very good performance, can handle a relatively high amount of current) JRC4556 op amp for the headphone output. They advertise the sound card having a headphone amp. I mean, you can do better on paper, and you might need better in practice for certain headphones, but it's not worth the money probably.

DT 770 sounds fine to me.


----------



## eftj

Hmm, I might invest in one when I get a job this Summer.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> I was talking about the electrical noise, not acoustic fan noise, from the graphics cards. Fast on/off switching of the VRMs dirtying the power, maybe stray EMI from them coupling in, and so on, are not the most friendly circumstances for nearby electronics.
> Creative X-Fi HD USB is probably just fine. I wouldn't upgrade that. I don't know exactly how it's internally configured, but it does use a classic and cheap (but very good performance, can handle a relatively high amount of current) JRC4556 op amp for the headphone output. They advertise the sound card having a headphone amp. I mean, you can do better on paper, and you might need better in practice for certain headphones, but it's not worth the money probably.
> DT 770 sounds fine to me.


So if you were in my position, with my sig rig and the Creative USB Card, as well as a pair of A700s, what would you do?

Thanks!


----------



## Simca

X-Fi HD USB is actually pretty bad. It's inferior to the internal solution HD. That's for sure.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> X-Fi HD USB is actually pretty bad. It's inferior to the internal solution HD. That's for sure.


So what would you do in my situation?

I have my new PC (sig rig), a pair of A700s from about a year ago which I got at the same time as my USB Soundcard. I have to agree that the soundcard doesn't make that much of a difference (some, but nothing what people say an actual card does).

Some details:
- 90% gaming, 10% movies/music
- PCI Express x1 interface (only open slot)
- 400 max or so for both, I could make it more if it would be worth it.
- I also will have a Klipsch Promedia 2.1 connected when I am not using the heaphones
- I will be using the headphones with my iPod if they work, if not, then I am find using earbuds or my A700s for the iPod

Comfort is really important as well and I would prefer a closed solution. I would be getting both a soundcard and headphones if you would recommend it.


----------



## Simca

Sell USB version and buy the internal solution. Your next upgrade would be headphones and you'd be looking at DT880s or something and an amp like the O2


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Sell USB version and buy the internal solution. Your next upgrade would be headphones and you'd be looking at DT880s or something and an amp like the O2


+ rep thanks for the advice.

So a total upgrade would be:
*
Headphones:*
DT 880s (should I get the 250 Ohm or the 600 Ohm version? Also, it says semi-open... are these going to leak sound? If they are going to leak a decent amount, would the DT 770s work?)

*Amp:*
The O2 you mentioned
(does this thing sit outside my case on my desk? Or is there an attachment to have it fit into a drive slot in my case (or is that not recommended?)
Also, I noticed that it only has the mini plug for headphones... Is there a version with the larger plug, or is there no loss in quality when running through the 3.5 mm jack?
Last thing, is this needed for gaming? It is 150 bucks, so definitely quite a purchase.

*Soundcard:*
Should I do the Creative Titanium HD or the Asus Xonar Essence STX?
(mikeaj mentioned I could get noise with it, how noticeable would it be?)

Would you change anything here? If I got a higher end sound card would I still need the amp?

Thanks a ton for the advice,
If *anyone* has any other advice, please say so. I like to hear a bunch of opinions before I spend


----------



## zoidbergslo

Semi-open headphones will leak sound yeah.

About o2:
Its standalone unit outside your computer. If you want 6.3 jacks you can get o2 in bigger box with different jack. Or you can wait for ODA (objective desktop amp). It will be designed by same guy as o2 but it will have 6.3 as standard and some other enchantments like all connections in the back (except headphones and volume). Available in autumn as far as I know.

I would go with Asus Xonar Essence STX if you don't play Battlefield Bad Company 2


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I didn't think that the O2 used any audio post processing like Dolby headphone or THX. That would turn me off for gaming.


----------



## zoidbergslo

It does not alter sound in any way just transparent amplification. No bass boost or any of that stuff.


----------



## Simca

The O2 just makes your headphones of 600 ohms usable. It isn't supposed to color your music unless you're buying an amp for that exact purpose like Mad Earz for Grado headphones. Tube amps would also distort the sound but to many people in a positive way.

The amp is only necessary to get you to listen to the headphones otherwise they're too hard to drive from a sound card. The sound card is used for managing sounds, clarity, detail and gaming.

The headphones will allow you to get the most out of the sound card. Not all headphones are the same. The DT770s are not the best headphones for gaming, but they're also cheaper. The DT770s are terrible for rock music IMO, but great for bassy music. The DT880s do a lot of things right and is priced appropriately.

As for the STX..It may be a better DAC than the TiHD, but as far as gaming goes. I still feel it's significantly better than the STX. The STX not only does BC2 games poorly but also Valve games in general.


----------



## csm725

Simca, the Audinst Hud-MX1 I have on my way... do you know if in 600 ohm mode it will be capable of fully driving DT990 Prem. 600 ohms?


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoidbergslo*
> 
> Semi-open headphones will leak sound yeah.
> About o2:
> Its standalone unit outside your computer. If you want 6.3 jacks you can get o2 in bigger box with different jack. Or you can wait for ODA (objective desktop amp). It will be designed by same guy as o2 but it will have 6.3 as standard and some other enchantments like all connections in the back (except headphones and volume). Available in autumn as far as I know.
> I would go with Asus Xonar Essence STX if you don't play Battlefield Bad Company 2


Nope no BFBC2 at all

So on a scale of 1-10 with a closed headphone being a 1 and an open being a 10, the 880s will leak how much sound?









Any idea on the release date of the ODA?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The O2 just makes your headphones of 600 ohms usable. It isn't supposed to color your music unless you're buying an amp for that exact purpose like Mad Earz for Grado headphones. Tube amps would also distort the sound but to many people in a positive way.
> The amp is only necessary to get you to listen to the headphones otherwise they're too hard to drive from a sound card. The sound card is used for managing sounds, clarity, detail and gaming.
> The headphones will allow you to get the most out of the sound card. Not all headphones are the same. The DT770s are not the best headphones for gaming, but they're also cheaper. The DT770s are terrible for rock music IMO, but great for bassy music. The DT880s do a lot of things right and is priced appropriately.
> As for the STX..It may be a better DAC than the TiHD, but as far as gaming goes. I still feel it's significantly better than the STX. The STX not only does BC2 games poorly but also Valve games in general.


So it sounds like you would definitely recommend the 880s over the 770s? For that price range to the 880s beat anything that is closed or semi-closed? From what I can recall from my circuits courses, I am guessing the 600 Ohm version is better than the 250 Ohm version?

I might do the TiHD for the sound card then.

Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> Simca, the Audinst Hud-MX1 I have on my way... do you know if in 600 ohm mode it will be capable of fully driving DT990 Prem. 600 ohms?


It'll drive them. You'll be able to listen to them comfortably, but not well IMO.


----------



## csm725

Thanks. What would I be "missing out" on - i.e. how much worse are they going to sound being driven by the Audinst than by a more capable amp?
Will it be really bad and muddy, or just less impact on the bass and stuff like that?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> What would I be "missing out" on?


It's not the best of amps. The amp isn't completely transparent. IIRC, the Audinst sounds a bit bright. Trying to explain different amps to people that haven't heard different amps is a bit difficult. You can easily tell the quality of the amp apart from a higher end amp but as far as power goes, the Audinst should be enough to drive 600 ohm headphones.


----------



## csm725

Okay, I understand.
The issue, then, isn't really with the pairing, but rather with the Audinst's nature.
Is there any better DAC/amp combo for $180 or less that you'd have recommended (even though it's too late)?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> Okay, I understand.
> The issue, then, isn't really with the pairing, but rather with the Audinst's nature.
> Is there any better DAC/amp combo for $180 or less that you'd have recommended (even though it's too late)?


Uhhhh.....Honestly around this price point it's mostly the same. Minor differences in tonality and brightness, but they're all around the same. The USB Dacs that jump out at this price range are the Yulong u100, the Audinst MX-1, and the HIFIDIY Aune Mini MK2 with the Yulong being the most expensive and sounding the best (at 220ish new).


----------



## csm725

Alright, thanks








I was considering the Yulong but I couldn't pony up the extra $40.


----------



## zoidbergslo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> So on a scale of 1-10 with a closed headphone being a 1 and an open being a 10, the 880s will leak how much sound?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea on the release date of the ODA?


Sorry cant help you there I have open back headphones. All I know those would leak but don't know how much.
Nwavguy said he is planing to release more information on september or something like that.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoidbergslo*
> 
> Sorry cant help you there I have open back headphones. All I know those would leak but don't know how much.
> Nwavguy said he is planing to release more information on september or something like that.


Sounds good, I will probably just go for the normal one then, since you guys say it is so awesome.

Thanks for all of the help!


----------



## bigal1542

Hey guys,

Sorry for another post, but I figured you guys would have a solid idea.

Currently, I have the USB version of the Creative HD, and it allows for easy swapping between my speakers and headphones. It defaults to the speakers, but if I plug in headphones, then the headphones work and the speakers shut off. It is easy because the plugin is right on my desktop.

When I get an internal sound card (most likely the titanium HD, is there an easier way of switching between the two without having to get behind my PC and swap the plugs?

It may be useful to know that the connectors for the 2.1 speakers are RCA connectors. Would it work to have an 3.5 mm extension cable going to the desk, or would that just disable the speakers?

I will also most likely be getting the O2 amp.

All thoughts are welcome


----------



## Crunk29

Hey!

This is my first time on this website, have been looking for a good hardware website for a while, and quite frankly, this website's the best I've ever come across. Just thought I'd get that of the way.

Anyway, I'm looking to purchase a gaming headset for a mate and after going through 13 different brands and many more models, I've narrowed down the choices to either the Steelseries Siberia V2 or the Planatronics Gamecom 780. The mate I'm buying it for listens to a diverse range of music, but especially hardstyle so good bass is important, and plays a lot of games. I've been all over the Internet (It was a scary experience.) and based off what I've read/watched, the Siberia seems to be better sound quality wise (Please correct me if I'm wrong.), however based off how the adjustment system looks it just doesn't look like it will last. I'm currently using a Turtlebeach PX21 (I know, forgive me for my error.) and they're reasonable, except I've heard many complaints about them breaking, and the look a lot stronger than the Steelseries.

So what I'm trying to get at is, which headset is better for sound quality, build quality and mic quality between the Steelseries Siberia V2 and the Planatronics Gamecom 780? Also, if anyone has a Steelseries Siberia V2, what has the build quality been like for you?

Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated and I must say, Simca this is the single greatest compilation of hardware comparison/reviews that I've ever seen! Kudos!

Thanks for reading


----------



## pioneerisloud

@Crunk29:
Start looking into actual headphones, not headsets.







You'll find a MUCH better variety of good sound quality headphones. He wants a mic...that's easy. Add a Zalman clip on mic, and you're done.


----------



## Nastrodamous

What sound card do you think would be a better match for my HD555's? Buy an Asus Xonar D1 now or keep looking for an openbox/refurb Asus Xonar STX


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nastrodamous*
> 
> What sound card do you think would be a better match for my HD555's? Buy an Asus Xonar D1 now or keep looking for an openbox/refurb Asus Xonar STX


Get an open box or used Xonar D1. You could probably easily find it for 50 bucks. You won't need the amp on the STX and the headphones aren't good enough to really get much more out of the STX.

*Crunk*, thanks for the compliment, but if you read it then you know I don't like headsets!!! Get your friend a nice pair of headphones that are good for gaming.


----------



## Nastrodamous

i went ahead and used some amazon credit to get an asus xonar dx for $50


----------



## Skylit

Tried out an omega striker this weekend. Pretty good card equipped with an AKM4396 120db dyn SNR rated dig to ana converter. Good price point tbh.

I actually prefer it to the DX and Xfi Elite Pro I have for music listening. (Cirrus 4398 (120db dyn) is a little too bright for me)


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Tried out an omega striker this weekend. Pretty good card equipped with an AKM4396 120db dyn SNR rated dig to ana converter. Good price point tbh.
> 
> I actually prefer it to the DX and Xfi Elite Pro I have for music listening. (Cirrus 4398 (120db dyn) is a little too bright for me)


Music wise it's the better card, but the Xonar DX is more all around.


----------



## snoball

OK so here is a list of music I am into right now.



It is all kind of bass oriented. I like it.

I currently own Samson SR850s. I was wondering if jumping up a notch to a roughly $150 headphones is worth it? I use these cans for gaming and music and the balance between the two is amazing with these. Will I find such balance at the $150 point and will it be worth it to own the more expensive headphones?

Sorry if this is vague or makes no sense at all, it is late. lol

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Fortunex

Might not find the perfect headphone for you in the $150 range, but if you bump up to $180 you can get Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohms. Excellent bass response, and very good positional accuracy for gaming.


----------



## snoball

I will consider those thanks! Wil my Fiio E6 be enough for them or should I consider upgrading that too?


----------



## Fortunex

Your E6 should be enough.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> OK so here is a list of music I am into right now.
> 
> It is all kind of bass oriented. I like it.
> I currently own Samson SR850s. I was wondering if jumping up a notch to a roughly $150 headphones is worth it? I use these cans for gaming and music and the balance between the two is amazing with these. Will I find such balance at the $150 point and will it be worth it to own the more expensive headphones?
> Sorry if this is vague or makes no sense at all, it is late. lol
> Thanks in advance!


Ultrasone PRO550.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Ultrasone PRO550.


^ This, also to consider, the Ultrasone HFI-780 is only about ~$150 right now on Amazon.


----------



## snoball

So of the 3 Recommended

HFI 780
Pro 550
Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohms

Would any require amp when listening on my PC?

Also, can anyone recommend a way to prevent the cords from turning into DNA strands?
Seems like the cord wants to look like this now..









Sorry guys, don't know too much about this stuff.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> So of the 3 Recommended
> HFI 780
> Pro 550
> Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohms
> Would any require amp when listening on my PC?
> Also, can anyone recommend a way to prevent the cords from turning into DNA strands?
> Seems like the cord wants to look like this now..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry guys, don't know too much about this stuff.


All three would work just fine on your setup, however, almost any headphone benefits from a good amp.

As far as the cords, better headphones come with decent cords. I usually figure out how long I want it and then velcro the rest into a smallish loop.


----------



## Simca

I don't even know what a DNA strand cable cord is. Haven't seen that since I last saw a corded phone e_e.

Just kidding, work has corded phones, but headphones are usually straight cabled. No DNA issues.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I don't even know what a DNA strand cable cord is. Haven't seen that since I last saw a corded phone e_e.
> Just kidding, work has corded phones, but headphones are usually straight cabled. No DNA issues.


I am saying my headphone cords end up like this when they start out straight.


----------



## Sporkor

Hey. I'm planning on getting my first pair of "good" headphones for gaming and orchestral trance music/dustep trance and techno in general. I've was really interested in the Sennheiser HD 598's or pc 360's

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0042A8CW2/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_g23_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1M240Z6FRT2J8XAHRG5B&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-Corded-Gaming-Cancelling-Headset/dp/B003DA4D2U

They are almost exactly the same price so really i'm asking which is better.

Secondly i know i would need an amp for the 598's but i don't know if one is needed or even works with the pc 360's. Which would you recommend to go with the headphones in this price range.

Finally i have a p8z68 pro v gen 3 asus mobo, I was wondering if i needed a soundcard, the board supports up to 7.1 sound but maybe the quality isn't very good, Should i get a soundcard too and if so what do you recommend for these headphones.

Thanks for your time and patience!

I forgot to mention communication is a must so i will have to have a mic of some kind and i assume the zalman clip on mic is fine for mumble coms and other voip.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Is the Pioneer SW-8 a good booming subwoofer? Anyone have/had one of these care to tell?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Is the Pioneer SW-8 a good booming subwoofer? Anyone have/had one of these care to tell?


I've had it. It's a good sub, but it's not really boomy until you get to its limitations. At which point it clips.

Great music sub, but not the best for movies. Then again it's an 8" sub. Though it's still miles ahead of HTIB subs.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Is the Pioneer SW-8 a good booming subwoofer? Anyone have/had one of these care to tell?
> 
> 
> 
> I've had it. It's a good sub, but it's not really boomy until you get to its limitations. At which point it clips.
> 
> Great music sub, but not the best for movies. Then again it's an 8" sub. Though it's still miles ahead of HTIB subs.
Click to expand...

What about the Acoustic Audio Sub10? I'm trying to find rich low booming bass for a decent price and these two were the first ones I've seen that look nice.


----------



## aksthem1

Do you want accurate bass or just boom?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

What do you guys think of this card? It my sound card in my system, I just want to see what you guys think of it.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Do you want accurate bass or just boom?


Mixed but more accuracy than boom.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Mixed but more accuracy than boom.


What's your budget for a subwoofer?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> What do you guys think of this card? It my sound card in my system, I just want to see what you guys think of it.


It's a good card actually. There is a company in the UK, IIRC, that will mod the hell out of it. I heard it was on par with the Essence line before the mod. Has a quality Japanese audio DAC. Even used in $1,000+ external DACs. Another plus is removable Op-amps. I was going to buy it until I got a good deal on my Titanium HD.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Mixed but more accuracy than boom.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your budget for a subwoofer?
Click to expand...

$150. I've already looked at the Daytons recommended but 600w compared to 100w is a big difference.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> It's a good card actually. There is a company in the UK, IIRC, that will mod the hell out of it. I heard it was on par with the Essence line before the mod. Has a quality Japanese audio DAC. Even used in $1,000+ external DACs. Another plus is removable Op-amps. I was going to buy it until I got a good deal on my Titanium HD.


Ah. Thanks for the info. I always thought it was quite good but wasn't sure. And I had hear of the mod, but didn't want/need/couldn't afford a 3 slot sound card.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> ^ This, also to consider, the Ultrasone HFI-780 is only about ~$150 right now on Amazon.


Which is the best for FPS games, PRO 550 or HFI-780?

If there is no difference worthy of note, which is better in general?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Which is the best for FPS games, PRO 550 or HFI-780?
> If there is no difference worthy of note, which is better in general?


I've not compared the two while gaming but they do use the same technology (S-Logic) for soundstaging.

Which is better is subjective. The 550 has a bit more thump to the bass and the 780 is a bit more balanced (although still bassy).


----------



## lb_felipe

Thank you.

According Ultrasone, HFI-780 does have S-Logic Plus, PRO 550 doesn't.

Source: http://www.ultrasone.com/images/stories/files/products/ultrasone_gesamtkatalog.pdf

I don't know whether this makes sound improvement though. PRO 550 has a 50 mm driver; HFI-780 has a 40 mm.

Now the question that I have to you: Does HFI-780 need a headphone amplifier?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Thank you.
> According Ultrasone, HFI-780 does have S-Logic Plus, PRO 550 doesn't.
> Source: http://www.ultrasone.com/images/stories/files/products/ultrasone_gesamtkatalog.pdf
> I don't know whether this makes sound improvement though. PRO 550 has a 50 mm driver; HFI-780 has a 40 mm.
> Now the question that I have to you: Does HFI-780 need a headphone amplifier?


Hmm, interesting. Looks like you need to bump up to the 900 if you want S-Logic on the Pro series.

The HFI-780 does not 'require' an amp but like I said, almost all good headphones would benefit from a good amp.


----------



## Simca

Added a "Real Subwoofer" section comprising of Subwoofers from 500-2000 dollars. This area is probably going to expand int he near future, but now you have higher end subwoofers on the list that you can look into.

I also added a basic receiver list. The receivers added to the list are low end "hi-fi" receivers or high end "mid-fi" receivers. The SQ/Features/Inputs and Value are greatest at this point IMO. Higher up than this the SQ, Features etc start to drop in terms of value. You'll get better SQ and features, but you're going to pay a premium for them.


----------



## Mehdi

Are the Titanium HDs really better then the ST/STXs? What's the primary reasoning behind this opinion?

What if we were to factor in virtual surround sound headphone support? How would they be ranked then, where it's Dolby Headphone versus CMSS 3D Headphone.

I'm asking because I plan to buy a Q701s, and currently I only have an onboard Realtek (from my Z77 board) and an AstroAmp to drive them through. I can't for the heck of me decide what audio card to put in.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> Are the Titanium HDs really better then the ST/STXs? What's the primary reasoning behind this opinion?
> 
> What if we were to factor in virtual surround sound headphone support? How would they be ranked then, where it's Dolby Headphone versus CMSS 3D Headphone.
> 
> I'm asking because I plan to buy a Q701s, and currently I only have an onboard Realtek (from my Z77 board) and an AstroAmp to drive them through. I can't for the heck of me decide what audio card to put in.


TiHD is good enough for casual music listening. Great for gaming and cheaper than the STX. That's why it's the better buy. Much higher value than an STX.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> TiHD is good enough for casual music listening. Great for gaming and cheaper than the STX. That's why it's the better buy. Much higher value than an STX.


Does the THD offer anything more than a ST/X when it comes to new games? Now that everything is software processed, I imagine they'd be at equal footing?

What about moves? How does the THD handle such a scenario when it comes to DD decoding. I imagine in that case, virtual surround is no longer an option? ( Unless I rely on the AstroAmp )

Thanks!


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Hmm, interesting. Looks like you need to bump up to the 900 if you want S-Logic on the Pro series.
> The HFI-780 does not 'require' an amp but like I said, almost all good headphones would benefit from a good amp.


Let me make a correction, both have S-Logic. HFI-780 owns the S-Logic "PLUS" whereas PRO 550 also owns S-Logic but "PLUS". You need to bump up to the PRO 900 to get the "PLUS" on the PRO Series.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added a "Real Subwoofer" section comprising of Subwoofers from 500-2000 dollars. This area is probably going to expand int he near future, but now you have higher end subwoofers on the list that you can look into.
> I also added a basic receiver list. The receivers added to the list are low end "hi-fi" receivers or high end "mid-fi" receivers. The SQ/Features/Inputs and Value are greatest at this point IMO. Higher up than this the SQ, Features etc start to drop in terms of value. You'll get better SQ and features, but you're going to pay a premium for them.


Hi Simca, I noticed there are no Definitive Technology subs in there. I own an SC2000 and have to say that I haven't found its equal for under $1000 (really, not a stretch at all). The rest of the Def-Tech lineup is pretty insane also - I believe they make some of the best subs out there and would put their equipment head-to-head with any other competitor in the same price point (it won't even be fair - these compact little monsters consistently outperform their 15"-18" competitors). I listened/felt tons of subs before buying my Def-Tech and haven't regretted it since. I get thunderous rumble along with precise punch (best of both worlds). Lol. /end rant...









EDIT: almost forgot, thanks for maintaining this so well; the effort is appreciated.


----------



## Mehdi

While reading up on the Q701s and it seems that even if an external amp isn't bought for it, they will still be really high quality in comparison to other headphones in the price range. How accurate do you think that really is?

Would you buy a Q701 if you couldn't amp it? ( I realize its strongly suggested to amp in the main article in this thread )


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> While reading up on the Q701s and it seems that even if an external amp isn't bought for it, they will still be really high quality in comparison to other headphones in the price range. How accurate do you think that really is?
> Would you buy a Q701 if you couldn't amp it? ( I realize its strongly suggested to amp in the main article in this thread )


They'll work kind of "ok" (certainly not as bad as the K701) but don't expect to listen to anything above low volume. You also sacrifice some of the 'spaciousness' the headphone offers.

I would get something to go along with the Q701, even an e11 (although I again suggest better) will do you some justice, its extremely portable and won't break the bank.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> Would you buy a Q701 if you couldn't amp it? ( I realize its strongly suggested to amp in the main article in this thread )


No.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> They'll work kind of "ok" (certainly not as bad as the K701) but don't expect to listen to anything above low volume. You also sacrifice some of the 'spaciousness' the headphone offers.
> I would get something to go along with the Q701, even an e11 (although I again suggest better) will do you some justice, its extremely portable and won't break the bank.


What about the E9 or AstroAmp? The E9, other than looking sexy, seems to make sense for someone like myself who would be using the headphones in front of a desk.

What would you recommend to "do it justice"?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> What about the E9 or AstroAmp? The E9, other than looking sexy, seems to make sense for someone like myself who would be using the headphones in front of a desk.
> What would you recommend to "do it justice"?


The e9 is a fantastic match, however, if you can swing it, go for the O2 and never buy another headphone amp again.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> The e9 is a fantastic match, however, if you can swing it, go for the O2 and never buy another headphone amp again.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> The e9 is a fantastic match, however, if you can swing it, go for the O2 and never buy another headphone amp again.


Hrrggghhh. You're tempting me haha. I like the idea of buying once and not purchasing again.

Are you talking about the DAC or the Heaphone Amp? Also, any suggestions on where to actually buy one of these?

edit: Found the link... oh boy, am I going to push the button to order? I think I am. All said an done... while I've already got the Q701 and O2 in my shopping cart... should I continue with the THD? Do I need special cabling to hook it up to the O2, or will any RCA cable do?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> Hrrggghhh. You're tempting me haha. I like the idea of buying once and not purchasing again.
> Are you talking about the DAC or the Heaphone Amp? Also, any suggestions on where to actually buy one of these?
> edit: Found the link... oh boy, am I going to push the button to order? I think I am. All said an done... while I've already got the Q701 and O2 in my shopping cart... should I continue with the THD? Do I need special cabling to hook it up to the O2, or will any RCA cable do?


That's great. To answer your question, if you purchase the amp only, then the TiHD would serve as the DAC, however, if you're already getting the O2, then adding-on the DAC portion would be more cost effective than adding a creative card and will be musically superior. Oh, and any RCA cable is fine.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> That's great. To answer your question, if you purchase the amp only, then the TiHD would serve as the DAC, however, if you're already getting the O2, then adding-on the DAC portion would be more cost effective than adding a creative card and will be musically superior. Oh, and any RCA cable is fine.


I'm not super interested in music though, I'm mostly focusing on trying to get gaming. More specifically virtual surround sound gaming. I imagine I'd lose that ability if I got a external DAC, as opposed to using a Asus (Dolby Headphone) or Creative (CMSS 3D Headphone) sound card?

P.S. I'm looking at the JDSLabs O2 Amp, and I don't quite see anything in regards to an add-on DAC. ( nevermind, found it, slightly hidden on the site )


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> That's great. To answer your question, if you purchase the amp only, then the TiHD would serve as the DAC, however, if you're already getting the O2, then adding-on the DAC portion would be more cost effective than adding a creative card and will be musically superior. Oh, and any RCA cable is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not super interested in music though, this is mostly for gaming. As such, is getting the O2 DAC worth it in that respect?
Click to expand...

Get the TiHD.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> I'm not super interested in music though, I'm mostly focusing on trying to get gaming. More specifically virtual surround sound gaming. I imagine I'd lose that ability if I got a external DAC, as opposed to using a Asus (Dolby Headphone) or Creative (CMSS 3D Headphone) sound card?
> P.S. I'm looking at the JDSLabs O2 Amp, and I don't quite see anything in regards to an add-on DAC. ( nevermind, found it, slightly hidden on the site )


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Get the TiHD.


^ I suppose this. If you are primarily looking for positioning cues then a creative card is the way to go - no worries though, the TiHD is no slouch in the music dept.

OT: Hey Simca, did you catch that post on Def Tech subs - any thoughts?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> I'm not super interested in music though, I'm mostly focusing on trying to get gaming. More specifically virtual surround sound gaming. I imagine I'd lose that ability if I got a external DAC, as opposed to using a Asus (Dolby Headphone) or Creative (CMSS 3D Headphone) sound card?
> P.S. I'm looking at the JDSLabs O2 Amp, and I don't quite see anything in regards to an add-on DAC. ( nevermind, found it, slightly hidden on the site )
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Get the TiHD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ I suppose this. If you are primarily looking for positioning cues then a creative card is the way to go - no worries though, the TiHD is no slouch in the music dept.
> 
> OT: Hey Simca, did you catch that post on Def Tech subs - any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I did, unfortunately I know little about them ATM and will need to hear them and learn more about them before I can recommend them.

If our beloved audio editor knows anything about them he can feel free to add them as well. I will only add things I've heard or read extensively about.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I did, unfortunately I know little about them ATM and will need to hear them and learn more about them before I can recommend them.
> If our beloved audio editor knows anything about them he can feel free to add them as well. I will only add things I've heard or read extensively about.


I'm glad to hear that; first-hand opinion is the only way to fly. That said, if you have the opportunity, give these a 'listen/feel' - its a unique experience compared to what you expect looking at the small footprint these offer (its stunning, really - you can feel rumble and precise punch simultaneously in that lower part of your ribcage...it makes me giddy every time). Excuse the enthusiasm but you know what its like when you find that one line of items that far exceed the industry standard and all their peers for the price - well, that's how I feel about Def Tech subs right now. Lol, I should be doing commercials for these guys.


----------



## jojoleb

HI guys.
thx for the thread. its a great read.
I have decided to buy a new headphone/headset with a sound card(i dont have a sound card at this point)

I have a 2 year old creative Fatall7ty HS-1000 (got them for under 60$) and they are of course USB headsets.

now i'm thinking to get the Creative titanium Sound card (refurb for 50$) and the sennheiser 350 or 360 .

I am into mostly gaming (id say 60%-70%) and music also since i play guitar and listen mostly to rock and pop and instrumental music.( i dont need bass)

so i want directional headphones(hearing direction of footsteps and bullets etc) with great sounstage.

will this suit my needs ?

thx !! my budget is around 250$ for everything.


----------



## Simca

The 360 would be a better choice if you're looking to go the headset route. Headphones+Mic is still the better option.


----------



## thehidecheck

What a wonderfully comprehensive thread. I'd have no doubt in throwing my money mindlessly in any direction you will it







I mean that with honesty, actually.

... but i can't help but feel it is lacking in a single aspect. You know, with itx rigs all the rage right now, a man unwilling to give up on a dedicated graphics card could find himself looking for an external soundcard. Likewise, if I find myself traveling and needing something plug into my laptop, I wouldn't know where to turn.

Any plans to add a section covering external sound cards? Would you recommend something like the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD Sound Card or similar products?

Edit:[REDACTED] but, it would be nice to have a separate category or have a wider range prices for suggested external solutions


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thehidecheck*
> 
> What a wonderfully comprehensive thread. I'd have no doubt in throwing my money mindlessly in any direction you will it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean that with honesty, actually.
> ... but i can't help but feel it is lacking in a single aspect. You know, with itx rigs all the rage right now, a man unwilling to give up on a dedicated graphics card could find himself looking for an external soundcard. Likewise, if I find myself traveling and needing something plug into my laptop, I wouldn't know where to turn.
> Any plans to add a section covering external sound cards? Would you recommend something like the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD Sound Card or similar products?
> Edit:[REDACTED] but, it would be nice to have a separate category or have a wider range prices for suggested external solutions


Under the soundcards section, everyone highlighted in blue is an external DAC, or external soundcard. It's mianly under the 'Audiophile' subsection.


----------



## Velsu

Very nice guide but i was wondering,are You sure that Titanium HD cant drive DT 770/880/990? I plan on buying one of these headphones for my sound card,for now without amp and i found threads where people claim the sound is clear and good (but u wont get everything out of headphones without amp still).


----------



## chinesekiwi

As stated, it can drive it, but not to it's potential.


----------



## Velsu

I see,thank You very much for this important piece of info.

If i buy an amp and make something like this : Titanium HD --> FiiO E9 --> Beyerdynamic DT (here im still undecided) 770/880/990 will it be efficient combo for MUSIC and GAMES?(need it for MMO pvp and FPS to hear footsepts,etc).
Also if i buy an amp should i still go 250 ohm or change it to 600 ohm (can FiiO E9 even drive it?)


----------



## Simca

600 e9 can drive it


----------



## thehidecheck

Are their any magic ratio's for spending on headphones vs soundcards/DACs? If I spent 250$ on some HD598's, what should I be looking to spend on soundcards? This, of course, is a rhetorical question. I don't own HD598's.

Something around 5$:3$ then? (headphones:soundcards)


----------



## Simca

If you want an internal solution nothing higher than a TiHD or STX.

If you want external the ODAC is cheap enough.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thehidecheck*
> 
> Are their any magic ratio's for spending on headphones vs soundcards/DACs? If I spent 250$ on some HD598's, what should I be looking to spend on soundcards? This, of course, is a rhetorical question. I don't own HD598's.
> Something around 5$:3$ then? (headphones:soundcards)


Supposing that the goal is maximum sound quality / enjoyment for (stereo) headphones playback, even then, there's not really a ratio to follow. It depends. Different headphones have different requirements.

The headphones as well as your listening volumes determine what kind of amplifier is sufficient (amp integrated into a sound card, external DAC, or standalone). Some very expensive headphones won't demand much here, but some that are not even as expensive as the HD 598 may require something more involved. You want the device doing the digital-to-analog conversion-dedicated external DAC or sound card-to be good in any scenario, but these days even cheap stuff does D/A pretty well. If you were to get very sensitive headphones, mostly of the in-ear variety, then it would be more important to get something with very low noise; furthermore, if you're turning down volume in software, 24-bit operation and good low-level linearity performance would be good.

But if you were to oversimplify things, in most cases, $5 : $3 is a bit too little on the headphones, probably.

However, the cost is really not much of an indication for quality for headphones and especially external DACs and somewhat sound cards, so framing it in terms of cost may not be the best way to do it. There are expensive headphones that most consider not to be that great, expensive and great headphones that you may not like, and so on.

It's most important to get headphones that are most suited to what you want, in terms of sonic characteristics and ergonomics. Then you can figure out what gear you need to run it well.


----------



## Velsu

Damn i still cant decide between DT 880 and 990...they both sound great and both lack in few places. I wish there was some perfect solution,combining 880 + 990 would be awesome.

Why do people use such solution: soundcard--->mixamp--->amp-->headphones.

What is the purpose of this?


----------



## Mehdi

An update on my experiences so far.

*Audio Card:* Titanium HD
Holy molly did they do a great job with the software and drivers this time through. Much improved over the Audigy2 and regular X-Fi line I had before.

Sound quality is great all around.

The CMSS-3D Headphone mode is nice, though I haven't yet had the experience of saying... WOW this sounds way better than stereo. Though I have yet to really do a comparison of the two.

*Headphones:* Q701 *un-amped*
Maybe I have a small head, but I don't feel the bumps at all. These headphones are AMAZINGLY comfortable and look even sexier in person ( I got the black ones)

The sound quality is fantastic. Though I have no other 'good' quality pair of headphones to test them against (yet).

*Headphones:* Q701 *amped* with MixAmp (DH turned off)
Honestly, I haven't noticed a difference when using the MixAmp as a headphone amp. While it does allow me more room to put the volume up - I can already get the volume loud enough without it. The quality difference *might* be there, but after hunting for a difference, I couldn't really find one other than a perhaps mild or placebo affected improvement.

*Coming Attractions*

E11 is coming in the mail. I'm going to see how much it improved the Q701. Once again, I would have jumped to the O2, but there is a 15% restocking fee. I'll go with the O2s as soon as I get the firsthand impression the headphone amp matters to me.
"Ultrasone PRO 550 S-Logic Surround Sound Professional Headphones" are in the mail as well.

DT990s, I want to give a run too... but the price jumped to $300








I will try these as soon as the price goes back to $200ish on amazon.


----------



## Mehdi

I just got the FiiO E11 in he mail earlier today and I've been playing with it, connected to the Q701. Quick frankly, I don't notice a minimal difference at best.

I'm starting to strongly question the suggestion the Q701s really help when amped. Perhaps my ears just aren't sensitive enough to hear the difference. Or maybe the THDs are "good enough" for driving the headphones.

All said, the Q701s standalone are still amazing to me - between comfort and sound. I should be getting the PRO 550s in the mail on Monday. It'll be interesting to see how they head up against the Q701s.









P.S. I have the "gain" set to Low and the EQ set to 0 on the E11s.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mehdi*
> 
> I just got the FiiO E11 in he mail earlier today and I've been playing with it, connected to the Q701. Quick frankly, I don't notice a minimal difference at best.
> I'm starting to strongly question the suggestion the Q701s really help when amped. Perhaps my ears just aren't sensitive enough to hear the difference. Or maybe the THDs are "good enough" for driving the headphones.
> All said, the Q701s standalone are still amazing to me - between comfort and sound. I should be getting the PRO 550s in the mail on Monday. It'll be interesting to see how they head up against the Q701s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I have the "gain" set to Low and the EQ set to 0 on the E11s.


The e11 helps my Q701 a bit but flip the gain to high (the e11 doesn't put out that much amplitude) although, its great to get a bit more 'thump' on the bottom end (this is where the e11 shines, especially for such a compact device). Try setting the eq to 1 or 2 on those bass-heavy tracks and smile (if you're into that, if not, the e11 isn't the best of choices for the q701).

You need some decent gear to drive the Q701 to its true potential (O2, Fiio e9, Matrix M-Stage or above - IMHO). That said, the Q701 is no where near as difficult to drive as the k701 and you'll get more from less with the headphone than you will with the latter.

EDIT: Your Ultrasone Pro 550 won't need anywhere near the amp (although its not going to hurt) that the Q701 to reach its full potential. Also, if you bump the eq on the e11 paired with the pro 550 you're in for an...'experience' (the beat your brains in with the bass bat type).


----------



## coolhandluke41

I have PC350 and X-Fi Titanium are this worth getting ? (gamming/hard rock ,metal)
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-550-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000YDYEDW

is this a good price ?


----------



## Smile286

What's better for headphones (Sennheiser HD 215): D1 or DS with opamp like LME49860? Thanks.


----------



## iARDAs

I am looking for a great headphone + mic or a headset that is around 100 bucks.

Any ideas folks?


----------



## csm725

For gaming?
Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and Zalman ZM-MIC1.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> For gaming?
> Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and Zalman ZM-MIC1.


yep gaming but i will sometimes listen to music too

I might go with your suggestion.


----------



## csm725

AD700 is good for music, but the bass is a little bit lacking.
They are very easy to drive.


----------



## TurboTurtle

I currently am using the onboard sound card with my ASUS Rampage II Gene motherboard - which is the SupremeFX X-Fi card.

I'm wondering if there are any worthwhile upgrades to it for what I use it for. Games I play usually do not have/utilize directional cues. Occasionally I'll pick up an FPS that has them, but they aren't my main genre of gaming. So support of directional cues is desirable, but stellar performance of such is not required. Also, I'm using Sony XB700 headphones, so the directional cues will get washed out a bit anyways. Most of the music I listen to has deep bass hits, again hence the headphones.

Just seeing if there's something out there at a reasonable price that would give me a noticeable increase in playback quality. No set budget at the moment.


----------



## chinesekiwi

^

You need a budget.


----------



## TurboTurtle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> ^
> You need a budget.


Ok, just gonna pull a number outta my butt here.

$125 or less. Some wiggle room if slightly higher = tons better


----------



## bigal1542

I am thinking of getting a the Titanium HD as recommended earlier but people in the thread, but still haven't found an answer to the one question that is stopping me from getting one.

I have an external sound card now, so switching between headphones and speakers is easy. The speakers are default and if I plug in the headphones, the speakers become silent and all sound is put through the headphones.

If I got an internal sound card, how would this work? I wouldn't be able to plug in/out headphones each time I wanted to switch between the two as the case is in a hard to reach spot (the external card is right by my monitor).

What would be the best way to do this? Thanks!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TurboTurtle*
> 
> Ok, just gonna pull a number outta my butt here.
> $125 or less. Some wiggle room if slightly higher = tons better


forgot to ask, is comfort a strong priority for you?


----------



## iamwardicus

I love that you added Receivers to the list as I'm currently looking at them for my P163s (and eventually a Subwoofer (Epik, Hsu, or Emotiva - still debating pros/cons/budget), and Infinity 351 Center channel) - but for Headphone output, would they all operate the same - and be able to drive the higher impedance (300-600 ohm) Headphones easily? I'm assuming they would, but finding headphone information about receivers is sketchy at best. The best info I've found on them is with Yamaha's headphone features that they specify.


----------



## TurboTurtle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> forgot to ask, is comfort a strong priority for you?


..I'm confused. How does a sound card have a "comfort" attribute?


----------



## iamwardicus

I think Chinesekiwi was referring to your headphones and thought that was what you were asking about instead of a possible sound card upgrade.


----------



## stinky

Got any opinions on this Cmoy RA1? I know that they will drive my modded Grado SR60i's really well, but I'm wondering how they will drive headphones like the Fischer Audio FA-011 or the Fostex T50RP... Any ideas?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stinky*
> 
> Got any opinions on this Cmoy RA1? I know that they will drive my modded Grado SR60i's really well, but I'm wondering how they will drive headphones like the Fischer Audio FA-011 or the Fostex T50RP... Any ideas?


Both can run without an amp. That Cmoy will increase volumes if you need it, but it won't make either headphone shine.


----------



## mikeaj

That's just a typical barebones CMoy design, which is the simplest design possible: pretty much just a op amp configured with a certain gain, with a potentiometer for volume control in front. There's no guarantee the board, construction, and parts for that amp in particular are good though. Who knows what the gain is set to. Granted, you could always change it by swapping a few resistors. Anyway, if the gain is too high and the volume pot is kinda crappy, there might be some L/R channel imbalance issues at low volumes.

Description says 18V, so it runs off of two 9V batteries. This means there should be plenty of voltage for most headphones, unless you're looking at 600 ohms Beyerdynamics and listening at a loud volume, or something like that. It also means that if one battery dies or gets disconnected before the other, some bad **** can go down and fry your headphones, at least in theory.

It doesn't say it has a charging circuit, so you'd have to keep replacing or recharging those yourself.

JRC4556 is one of the best cheap op amps for directly driving headphones, since it can supply a decent amount of current (rated for 70mA, can do more) and at pretty low distortion levels, with good audio specs. That's enough for almost headphones, unless they're relatively insensitive, have relatively low impedance, and you're listening pretty loudly. As mentioned, the old Grado RA1 headphone amp used it, the Objective2 headphone amp uses it (well two of them, and a separate op amp for the gain stage), and some sound cards and other devices use it as well. (That's not to say you'll necessarily get the same sound and performance out of all those devices.)

But anyway, it should sound pretty good, and work for all those headphones mentioned. The performance of a similar CMoy with JRC4556 is shown here:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/cmoy-with-gain.html
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/cmoy-ebay-headphone-amp.html


----------



## stinky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> That's just a typical barebones CMoy design, which is the simplest design possible: pretty much just a op amp configured with a certain gain, with a potentiometer for volume control in front. There's no guarantee the board, construction, and parts for that amp in particular are good though. Who knows what the gain is set to. Granted, you could always change it by swapping a few resistors. Anyway, if the gain is too high and the volume pot is kinda crappy, there might be some L/R channel imbalance issues at low volumes.
> Description says 18V, so it runs off of two 9V batteries. This means there should be plenty of voltage for most headphones, unless you're looking at 600 ohms Beyerdynamics and listening at a loud volume, or something like that. It also means that if one battery dies or gets disconnected before the other, some bad **** can go down and fry your headphones, at least in theory.
> It doesn't say it has a charging circuit, so you'd have to keep replacing or recharging those yourself.
> JRC4556 is one of the best cheap op amps for directly driving headphones, since it can supply a decent amount of current (rated for 70mA, can do more) and at pretty low distortion levels, with good audio specs. That's enough for almost headphones, unless they're relatively insensitive, have relatively low impedance, and you're listening pretty loudly. As mentioned, the old Grado RA1 headphone amp used it, the Objective2 headphone amp uses it (well two of them, and a separate op amp for the gain stage), and some sound cards and other devices use it as well. (That's not to say you'll necessarily get the same sound and performance out of all those devices.)
> But anyway, it should sound pretty good, and work for all those headphones mentioned. The performance of a similar CMoy with JRC4556 is shown here:
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/cmoy-with-gain.html
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/cmoy-ebay-headphone-amp.html


Thanks man, I agree that the JRC4556 seems to be one of the better Cmoy chips...

Although, I found another seller from Australia, and he made a rechargeable version for the same price as the seller that I linked before, but he includes 2x 9V batteries and a 24V power supply. Also, since Australia is closer to Singapore, the shipping is cheaper!

I think a portable amp would be nice, because my portable solution is currently... 160GB iPod Classic > Hifiman RE0 and I can tell that the RE0 isn't getting enough juice, so that portable amp should be able to spice up my portable and home solutions!


----------



## chinesekiwi

With the price increase of the Fiio E5 and lowering of the price of the Fiio E6, both are at parity so now the Fiio E5 is obsolete. Updated to recommending the E6 over the E5 for bypassing high output impedance products, as that's really the only situation so should consider getting portable headphone amp.


----------



## Carrek

There may be many questions like this, but anyway, here it goes:

I'm a gamer. Hardcore one. Sort of. I'm a heavy FPS gamer, but a headphone would be nice for some RPG immersion too.

But I'm also a heavy music listener. I really like listening music, whenever I can. I'm mostly into Heavy Metal and orchestral musics, but also some dubstep and some, let's say, calm music. So I like some punch but I also like melody.

What I planned to do, was buying a HD558 along with a X-fi Titanium soundcard. The HD558 is a good headphone, not too much bass, but it's said that the clarity, quality, soundstage, and other things are superb. Also it's open, good for gaming.

The things is, HD558 is expensive, and it's neither the best FPS headphone, nor a good bassy headphone. So I'd pay for something awesome, but not exactly awesome in what I want.

The solution? Buy a AD700 to pwn some n00bz, and buy another not so expensive headphone, a Grado SR60i maybe, for the music side. Though it'll be expensiver than the HD558, it'll be really good. But, the problem is the soundcard. The Titanium doesn't allow to use multiple headphones connected, right? So, everytime I'd switch between music and games, I would need to go to the back of my case, unplug one, and plug the other one? Aside from being a pain, it would most likely damage the entrances.

So basically, my question is:

Should I stick with the HD558 + Titan? Will it be a great for both gaming and the kind of musics I listen to?

Or is there any way around that issue with the Titanium? Would even 2 headphones beat a solo HD558?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## bigal1542

How do you guys switch between headphones and speakers if you have a soundcard?

I currently have a USB one so it is right on my desktop and easy to plug/unplug the headphones. When they are plugged in, the speakers are muted. I don't know how this would work because I wouldn't want to get behind my case every time I want to use headphones.

I am considering getting a recommended amp if it makes a difference.

Thanks,
Big Al


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> How do you guys switch between headphones and speakers if you have a soundcard?
> 
> I currently have a USB one so it is right on my desktop and easy to plug/unplug the headphones. When they are plugged in, the speakers are muted. I don't know how this would work because I wouldn't want to get behind my case every time I want to use headphones.
> 
> I am considering getting a recommended amp if it makes a difference.
> 
> Thanks,
> Big Al


What headphones and soundcard do you have?


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> What headphones and soundcard do you have?


I currently have some A900s/Promedia 2.1 and a Creative SoundBlaster X-fi HD. I will most likely be getting new headphones soon too. I am thinking of the DT 770 PRO (the 250 Ohm I am guessing, I can only have closed).

I am considering going for the Titanium HD and maybe the Fiio E9. I don't know if the JDSLabs O2 will work because I don't know how I would be able to easily change between speakers and headphones, if the O2 had a way to change between the two I would choose that instead. If anyone knows how I could set it up, please let me know because from what I have now the Titanium HD and O2 would be the best choice if I somehow had the option to easily switch between headphones and speakers.

I guess another question... Should I get a DAC too, or does the sound card essentially do that?

Thanks!

EDIT: even another question... What's this Fiio E09K? Any reason to look into it or just stick with the E9?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carrek*
> 
> There may be many questions like this, but anyway, here it goes:
> I'm a gamer. Hardcore one. Sort of. I'm a heavy FPS gamer, but a headphone would be nice for some RPG immersion too.
> But I'm also a heavy music listener. I really like listening music, whenever I can. I'm mostly into Heavy Metal and orchestral musics, but also some dubstep and some, let's say, calm music. So I like some punch but I also like melody.
> What I planned to do, was buying a HD558 along with a X-fi Titanium soundcard. The HD558 is a good headphone, not too much bass, but it's said that the clarity, quality, soundstage, and other things are superb. Also it's open, good for gaming.
> The things is, HD558 is expensive, and it's neither the best FPS headphone, nor a good bassy headphone. So I'd pay for something awesome, but not exactly awesome in what I want.
> The solution? Buy a AD700 to pwn some n00bz, and buy another not so expensive headphone, a Grado SR60i maybe, for the music side. Though it'll be expensiver than the HD558, it'll be really good. But, the problem is the soundcard. The Titanium doesn't allow to use multiple headphones connected, right? So, everytime I'd switch between music and games, I would need to go to the back of my case, unplug one, and plug the other one? Aside from being a pain, it would most likely damage the entrances.
> So basically, my question is:
> Should I stick with the HD558 + Titan? Will it be a great for both gaming and the kind of musics I listen to?
> Or is there any way around that issue with the Titanium? Would even 2 headphones beat a solo HD558?
> Thanks in advance.


What's your total budget (for both) and your location?


----------



## Carrek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> What's your total budget (for both) and your location?


I'd say around 400 dollars for both the headphone(s) and the soundcard. I live in Brazil, but I'll probably buy those things on Amazon or Newegg.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carrek*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> What's your total budget (for both) and your location?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say around 400 dollars for both the headphone(s) and the soundcard. I live in Brazil, but I'll probably buy those things on Amazon or Newegg.
Click to expand...

Ultrasone Pro 900

Xonar DX

OR

Beyerdynamic DT880

and

O2

Xonar DG


----------



## bigal1542

I guess I will try to make things easier since a lot of my older complicated posts have shunned attention









I have about $300-$400 bucks to spend on new audio equipment. What would you guys recommend if you were in my spot.

*Current equipment:*
_Creative USB X-fi SoundBlaster (dying out, needs to be replaced)_
Audio-Technia A-900s
Klipsch Promedia 2.1
Sig rig

*Details that might help:*
The sound card has to be PCI express x1 or USB as those are the only two slots I have open.
95% is gaming
Headphones need to be closed (comfort is one of the more important factors)
I need to have an easy way to swap between headphones and speakers, right now I can just plug in my headphones and my speakers mute

*Things I have considered: (but may be missing better options)*
Titanium HD
Fiio E9 (or E09K) / O2 Amp (I don't know how I would make switching headphones/speakers easy with the O2)
New headphones (DT770 Pros?) I could wait and save money for better cans in the future as the A900s are decent, but I am looking for something a little more bassy

Thanks a ton for the help guys,
Big Al

If any other info helps, let me know and I can give it.


----------



## bigal1542

Anyone know of a good audio switch for switching between speakers and headphones?

I am currently considering buying to make this setup work:
Titanium HD -> Switch -> A900/Promedia 2.1

When I get more cash I will be changing the A900s to an O2 amp (or ODA if it is out) and a better set of higher impedance cans, so the switch still might have to be used.


----------



## Carrek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 900
> Xonar DX
> OR
> Beyerdynamic DT880
> and
> O2
> Xonar DG


The Ultrasone is kind of off my budget. But the DT800 seems a good choice. But Xonar DG for gaming? Sounds weird.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carrek*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 900
> Xonar DX
> OR
> Beyerdynamic DT880
> and
> O2
> Xonar DG
> 
> 
> 
> The Ultrasone is kind of off my budget. But the DT800 seems a good choice. But Xonar DG for gaming? Sounds weird.
Click to expand...

Then find an XtremeGamer.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Anyone know of a good audio switch for switching between speakers and headphones?
> I am currently considering buying to make this setup work:
> Titanium HD -> Switch -> A900/Promedia 2.1
> When I get more cash I will be changing the A900s to an O2 amp (or ODA if it is out) and a better set of higher impedance cans, so the switch still might have to be used.


The ODA _may_ have better speaker output options.


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> The ODA _may_ have better speaker output options.


Based on what he said it looks like it might. I figured I would wait and see his final plans with it anyways









EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Titanium HD thanks to the recommendations here. What drivers do you guys recommend? The old stable ones (from like a year ago) or one of the two newer beta ones? Or even another set of modified ones?


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Based on what he said it looks like it might. I figured I would wait and see his final plans with it anyways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Titanium HD thanks to the recommendations here. What drivers do you guys recommend? The old stable ones (from like a year ago) or one of the two newer beta ones? Or even another set of modified ones?


Most have great success with the Creative drivers (they actually put some effort into them with this card). I personally use the PAX suite but keep in mind, a lot of people believe that the PAX suite adulterates the sound and doesn't add much benefit - I don't agree. Regardless, try the Creative drivers first and: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Most have great success with the Creative drivers (they actually put some effort into them with this card). I personally use the PAX suite but keep in mind, a lot of people believe that the PAX suite adulterates the sound and doesn't add much benefit - I don't agree. Regardless, try the Creative drivers first and: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Thanks, + rep

Sweet sounds good. Got any recommendation on which one though? Looks like there are two betas and one stable. The betas are MUCH newer than the one from Feb 11. Here they are:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver 3.00.1004
Filesize : 47.98 MB
Release date : 10 Feb 11

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
Filesize : 43.92 MB
Release date : 12 Sep 11
This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 7 and Windows Vista® support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.
One fix mentioned: Minimized the issue of no audio playback on certain system configurations.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
Filesize : 43.92 MB
Release date : 28 Jun 12
This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 8 support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.

Thanks,
Big Al


----------



## Moonfire

Infinity P363 is on sale for 100 each today at Frys. Is it better than my Cakewalk MA 15D?

Creative Titanium, or HD for gaming? I'm planning to get ODAC, or ODAC + O2 for music.


----------



## Simca

It hurts that there's no shipping available for the p363s. Good luck to whoever can get them. :\


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Thanks, + rep
> Sweet sounds good. Got any recommendation on which one though? Looks like there are two betas and one stable. The betas are MUCH newer than the one from Feb 11. Here they are:
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver 3.00.1004
> Filesize : 47.98 MB
> Release date : 10 Feb 11
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
> Filesize : 43.92 MB
> Release date : 12 Sep 11
> This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 7 and Windows Vista® support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.
> One fix mentioned: Minimized the issue of no audio playback on certain system configurations.
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
> Filesize : 43.92 MB
> Release date : 28 Jun 12
> This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 8 support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.
> Thanks,
> Big Al


I've only used the 10 Feb 11 drivers from Creative, not the beta.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moonfire*
> 
> Infinity P363 is on sale for 100 each today at Frys. Is it better than my Cakewalk MA 15D?
> Creative Titanium, or HD for gaming? I'm planning to get ODAC, or ODAC + O2 for music.


No need for the HD if you're going to get the ODAC.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Thanks, + rep
> Sweet sounds good. Got any recommendation on which one though? Looks like there are two betas and one stable. The betas are MUCH newer than the one from Feb 11. Here they are:
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver 3.00.1004
> Filesize : 47.98 MB
> Release date : 10 Feb 11
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
> Filesize : 43.92 MB
> Release date : 12 Sep 11
> This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 7 and Windows Vista® support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.
> One fix mentioned: Minimized the issue of no audio playback on certain system configurations.
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Driver (Beta)
> Filesize : 43.92 MB
> Release date : 28 Jun 12
> This download is a beta driver providing Microsoft® Windows® 8 support for Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium HD. For more details, read the rest of the web release note.
> Thanks,
> Big Al
> 
> 
> 
> I've only used the 10 Feb 11 drivers from Creative, not the beta.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Moonfire*
> 
> Infinity P363 is on sale for 100 each today at Frys. Is it better than my Cakewalk MA 15D?
> Creative Titanium, or HD for gaming? I'm planning to get ODAC, or ODAC + O2 for music.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need for the HD if you're going to get the ODAC.
Click to expand...

For gaming there might be.


----------



## Face76

A recommendation for Audiophile External Audio Devices, the Wyred 4 Sound mINT. It's a great sounding all in one unit, headphone amp, speaker amp, asynchronous DAC, and even includes a remote. Sound quality is excellent through either interface(speaker/headphone). Plus, it can power any relatively efficient pair of large towers(demoed with Marten Django) and inefficient headphones(Hifiman HE-6).


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Face76*
> 
> A recommendation for Audiophile External Audio Devices, the Wyred 4 Sound mINT. It's a great sounding all in one unit, headphone amp, speaker amp, asynchronous DAC, and even includes a remote. Sound quality is excellent through either interface(speaker/headphone). Plus, it can power any relatively efficient pair of large towers(demoed with Marten Django) and inefficient headphones(Hifiman HE-6).


Yes, and it's a great piece of equipment, but I couldn't bare to dish out thousands of dollars for Wyred products.


----------



## blackhand

If i were given the option to buy a used pair of Ultrasone Pro 550 S-logic headphones for - $77 + Shipping should i take it? or just buy something new for 35% gaming/ 50% music/ 15% movies in the $75-110 range?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhand*
> 
> If i were given the option to buy a used pair of Ultrasone Pro 550 S-logic headphones for - $77 + Shipping should i take it? or just buy something new for 35% gaming/ 50% music/ 15% movies in the $75-110 range?


Assuming the headphone is in average+ condition with completely working drivers I would definitely snap that up. Great price.


----------



## Face76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Yes, and it's a great piece of equipment, but I couldn't bare to dish out thousands of dollars for Wyred products.


It's $1,500, not thousands.


----------



## Simca

I meant to say that lots of their products are in the thousands of dollars range, especially their amplifiers and preamps. It's just not worth 1500.00 when there are almost as good options for much much cheaper. If you're loaded then by all means.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> For gaming there might be.


Forgive the ignorance but what does the Titanium HD off in gaming over the Titanium (non-HD)?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Forgive the ignorance but what does the Titanium HD off in gaming over the Titanium (non-HD)?


In gaming, nothing, but offers much better sound quality.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tr8rjohnk*
> 
> Forgive the ignorance but what does the Titanium HD off in gaming over the Titanium (non-HD)?
> 
> 
> 
> In gaming, nothing, but offers much better sound quality.
Click to expand...

Which in turn adds clarity and detail to the gaming aspect of the card which would give it an overall better gaming experience.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Well, it does offer both THX thu-studio and CMSS3d.


----------



## tr8rjohnk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Well, it does offer both THX thu-studio and CMSS3d.


Ok, this I can see. The ODAC would fulfill the rest of his needs.


----------



## kriso416

hey i have been looking for some headphones and are currently thinking about purchasing the Denon AH-D2000's. I was wondering if there where any other headphones that would compare in the same price range. ill be using them 50% for gaming and 50%for music.

thanks


----------



## Simca

Depend on what price range you're looking at for the D2000s, I've seen them go for 200 and 350. Sometimes higher..but that's a total rip off.

Other similar headphones that may or may not be better than the D2000s are the Ultrasone Pro 900's at around 335 dollars.

The Ultrasone Pro 750s (which are better than the 780s since the highs aren't as harsh and the bass is more controlled and the clarity is superior to the 780s).

These are IMO, way more bassy than the Denon D2ks, but are also good for gaming. If you're not too into DnB, Dubstep etc and just like bass for normal music then I think you'd get more enjoyment from the D2k's over the Ultrasones, but the Pro 900 is a very good headphone overall and obviously 335 dollars..

Other options are the Beyerdynamic DT770s, 880s and 990s. Look up reviews to see how each of these differ from each other. In short, the DT770s have the least amount of clarity, are the cheapest, and in some regards more bassy than the DT880s. The DT990s have "fat bloated" bass, but are fun headphones and good for gaming. The DT880s are good for gaming, enjoyable bass, very detailed and neutral.

Overall, the DT880s are generally the most expensive of the bunch with the DT770 being slightly cheaper in most cases than the DT990s.

But honestly the D2000s are very good headphones.

IMO it comes down to the Pro 900s, DT880s and the D2ks. Did I mention you need an amp for the DT880s? D2ks and Pro 900s can run without an amp, but it's highly suggested you get one to really enjoy them.


----------



## LessThanImpress

JVC RX700 VS Panasonic HTF600

Which one is better? I would be mostly watching FPS videos on YouTube. I like to listen to EDM and Rap/Hip Hop. I want a headphone that is good all around *50% Music / Movies, 50% Gaming.*

P.S. I like bass


----------



## Simca

Go with the RX700s. Those will have the bass you desire. The HTF600s honestly aren't as bassy as people claim they are.


----------



## kriso416

thanks for that, i was also looking at a soundcard and wasnt sure whether to get the ASUS Xonar essence st or stx and would that be suitable for the headphones or would i need a higher end sound card.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kriso416*
> 
> thanks for that, i was also looking at a soundcard and wasnt sure whether to get the ASUS Xonar essence st or stx and would that be suitable for the headphones or would i need a higher end sound card.


What do you want out of the sound card? Honestly, I'd rather go external DAC if you're not into the gaming aspect of sound cards. I don't see the ST as a good buy. Too esspenseev meng. Depends on if your headphones need an amp as well. What's budget? Lots of questions need to be answered, but I thought this thread would help you understand what to get better.


----------



## kriso416

it did help me im just not quite sure about everything as of yet, im currently doing some research and then ill get back to you. thanks for the help so far


----------



## golfergolfer

Few questions... Please be nice and answer for me please?









1) *Planning on getting a new speaker system but have a lowish budget*... Idea is to get either *Corsair SP2500*, Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, or (but doubt it) Swan M10. I think I will be getting the Corsair set because it packs a bit more of a punch with the sub (Yes I am one of those noobs who like bass







) The M10's are beautiful but the bass is not strong enough for me and I have heard there CAN be problems with the Klipsch. *Is this the right choice?*

2) Since I will be getting the Corsair set (unless someone has reasonable objections) *Should I get a sound card as well?* I know this has been asked many times about the difference between on board audio (SupremeFX X-Fi 2 on board... If that at all matters) and a sound card but I am willing to ask it again because this set of speakers is not as high performance as some may have. *Would I even notice the difference?*

3) *If I were to get a sound card which one should I get?* 60% Music, 40% gaming

I hope that you can take the time to answer these questions for me as I love nice sound however don't really know much about it...


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

Creative's Titanium HD is a great sound card choice. For music it is very good and is even better if you swap the op-amps with a pair of National 49720s. You mentioned a 2.1 speaker setup and I think you would be quite happy with it. I have those speakers and that sound card and it has served me well. Many here will recommend Asus Essence ST or STX and those are great cards as well, but the X-Fi is better for gaming.


----------



## malikq86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Few questions... Please be nice and answer for me please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) *Planning on getting a new speaker system but have a lowish budget*... Idea is to get either *Corsair SP2500*, Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, or (but doubt it) Swan M10. I think I will be getting the Corsair set because it packs a bit more of a punch with the sub (Yes I am one of those noobs who like bass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) The M10's are beautiful but the bass is not strong enough for me and I have heard there CAN be problems with the Klipsch. *Is this the right choice?*
> 2) Since I will be getting the Corsair set (unless someone has reasonable objections) *Should I get a sound card as well?* I know this has been asked many times about the difference between on board audio (SupremeFX X-Fi 2 on board... If that at all matters) and a sound card but I am willing to ask it again because this set of speakers is not as high performance as some may have. *Would I even notice the difference?*
> 3) *If I were to get a sound card which one should I get?* 60% Music, 40% gaming
> I hope that you can take the time to answer these questions for me as I love nice sound however don't really know much about it...


*Corsair SP2500* is the best overall of those 3 imho. See my thread sig for more details.









And yeah you should probably get a decent sound card for it.

I paired mine with the Titanium HD since it's primary for gaming...but since you lean toward music more..just get the *Asus Xonar DX* or *Asus Essence ST/X* or *Creative Titanium HD* whichever you can find at a good price for your budget.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

You will notice a difference with a sound card.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> Creative's Titanium HD is a great sound card choice. For music it is very good and is even better if you swap the op-amps with a pair of National 49720s. You mentioned a 2.1 speaker setup and I think you would be quite happy with it. I have those speakers and that sound card and it has served me well. Many here will recommend Asus Essence ST or STX and those are great cards as well, but the X-Fi is better for gaming.


Hmm ok I would love to get a Asus Essence STX but I would just have to find one for the right price








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malikq86*
> 
> *Corsair SP2500* is the best overall of those 3 imho. See my thread sig for more details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah you should probably get a decent sound card for it.
> I paired mine with the Titanium HD since it's primary for gaming...but since you lean toward music more..just get the *Asus Xonar DX* or *Asus Essence ST/X* or *Creative Titanium HD* whichever you can find at a good price for your budget.


Good to know about the SP2500 and I like the Xonar DX (noob question, Where do you plug in the power for it? and it will work in the bottom slot of my mobo?) was looking at the Titanium for a while too but on the front page of this thread it is said that they can die out after 1 year? That is not a good thing imo... And if I can find a Asus Essence STX in my price range then I will get it. If not I will get a Xonar DX just need to see where the power gets plugged in...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> You _will_ notice a difference with a sound card.


Yea I thought so just didnt know if it was worth it or not to pair it with the SP2500 speakers


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> Creative's Titanium HD is a great sound card choice. For music it is very good and is even better if you swap the op-amps with a pair of National 49720s. You mentioned a 2.1 speaker setup and I think you would be quite happy with it. I have those speakers and that sound card and it has served me well. Many here will recommend Asus Essence ST or STX and those are great cards as well, but the X-Fi is better for gaming.


I am getting a Creative Titanium HD.

Is swapping the OP Amps a recommended thing? I haven't really done it with cards, but plenty of circuits in labs, so I would be willing to if it is worth it.


----------



## iARDAs

I have a creative XFI, not the HD version.

If i uprade it to HD version would i see a noticable difference?

I game in a 2+1 speaker setup or a headset.


----------



## bigal1542

Due to you guys I got the Titanium HD and holy smokes is it an improvement over the USB one I was using. Some of the 3D sound is INSANE.

Just curious, I now have a wealth of settings and it looks like there is no good guide out there for what should be set to what... Here are what I have now:

X-Fi CMSS-3D enabled
- Headphone on
- MacroFX on
- ElevationFilter on
X-Fi Crystalizer on at 65%
EQ on and Acoustic
Mixer
- EAX enabled at 0.0 dB (this was the default?)
Set to headphones
Bass Boost enabled at 2.0 dB with a cutoff below 70Hz
Mode is game mode
SVM is off

I read that it is also best to have sound set to 5.1 or 7.1 in games. Is this correct? I am using A900s.

Please recommend other settings if I should change anything, as most of this is a new language to me.

Thanks!

EDIT:
Also, is there a way to decrease the sound of everything? I have to have my windows sound icon thing at 6% so I don't blow my ears out. Any way to decrease it another way so I can have the windows one at 40% or so. My options when they are that low are pretty drastic, as the volume up and down go between 0% and 6% and the 6 is still quite loud.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Due to you guys I got the Titanium HD and holy smokes is it an improvement over the USB one I was using. Some of the 3D sound is INSANE.
> 
> Just curious, I now have a wealth of settings and it looks like there is no good guide out there for what should be set to what... Here are what I have now:
> 
> X-Fi CMSS-3D enabled
> - Headphone on
> - MacroFX on
> - ElevationFilter on
> X-Fi Crystalizer on at 65%
> EQ on and Acoustic
> Mixer
> - EAX enabled at 0.0 dB (this was the default?)
> Set to headphones
> Bass Boost enabled at 2.0 dB with a cutoff below 70Hz
> Mode is game mode
> SVM is off
> 
> I read that it is also best to have sound set to 5.1 or 7.1 in games. Is this correct? I am using A900s.
> 
> Please recommend other settings if I should change anything, as most of this is a new language to me.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> EDIT:
> Also, is there a way to decrease the sound of everything? I have to have my windows sound icon thing at 6% so I don't blow my ears out. Any way to decrease it another way so I can have the windows one at 40% or so. My options when they are that low are pretty drastic, as the volume up and down go between 0% and 6% and the 6 is still quite loud.


Told you the internal solution was better than the USB version. No one ever believes me on that. :\

Good luck on the settings though, never found any use out of them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I have a creative XFI, not the HD version.
> 
> If i uprade it to HD version would i see a noticable difference?
> 
> I game in a 2+1 speaker setup or a headset.


In terms of overall sound quality/clarity/instrument separation and music enjoyability yes..in terms of gaming. Just a little.


----------



## duox

As a recent victim of this I have to mention that some of us have giant heads and headphones that flex our instead of having a true adjustable slidingh headband can be serious deal breakers regardless of sound quality.


----------



## AMC

Just got my BX8a deluxe's and Komplete Audio 6. Great setup


----------



## bigal1542

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Told you the internal solution was better than the USB version. No one ever believes me on that. :\


Honestly the difference is more than I notice from going from on board to the USB. You are definitely in the right here.


----------



## Caz

Picked up my in between pair of cans til Christmas today. Shure SRH 440s.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Will add a portable DAP / 'mp3 player' section soon.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Told you the internal solution was better than the USB version. No one ever believes me on that. :\
> Good luck on the settings though, never found any use out of them.
> In terms of overall sound quality/clarity/instrument separation and music enjoyability yes..in terms of gaming. Just a little.


Hmmm Thank you for the response.

If i see a good deal on newegg.com or any other site I might pick it up.


----------



## Calcifar

Heya,

I studied this Guide quite alot by now, went to head-fir.org aswell and spent many hours reading there.

Now, I got myself the ATH A700 and a xonar DX. I wasnt too happy with the A700 though, the pleather and over- size ruined it for me, the sound was great though.

I am now planning on ordering a DT880 premium 250 ohm from Amazon, after returning the A700.
I red that the Xonar DX wont have enough juice to drive the DT880 well enough so Im looking at alternatives in form of other sound cards.

Took a look at the Xonar ST on amazon but there are so many of them for different prices, I am very uncertain which one actually would be the right one for driving 250 ohm ?

Here my search results :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=xonar+st&x=0&y=0

Can i get away with something cheaper than the St in order to drive the Dt 880 250Ohm to it's full potential ?
The ST is already cranking my Budget quite a bit to be honest but if it's the best option, Id still go for it i suppose.

Also, can my Ipod drive the 250 Ohm by itself, if not, is a 20 dollar FIO enough ?

Some help would be greatly appreciated.









Also, awesome guide there, kudos!


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calcifar*
> 
> Heya,
> I studied this Guide quite alot by now, went to head-fir.org aswell and spent many hours reading there.
> Now, I got myself the ATH A700 and a xonar DX. I wasnt too happy with the A700 though, the pleather and over- size ruined it for me, the sound was great though.
> I am now planning on ordering a DT880 premium 250 ohm from Amazon, after returning the A700.
> I red that the Xonar DX wont have enough juice to drive the DT880 well enough so Im looking at alternatives in form of other sound cards.
> Took a look at the Xonar ST on amazon but there are so many of them for different prices, I am very uncertain which one actually would be the right one for driving 250 ohm ?
> Here my search results :
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=xonar+st&x=0&y=0
> Can i get away with something cheaper than the St in order to drive the Dt 880 250Ohm to it's full potential ?
> The ST is already cranking my Budget quite a bit to be honest but if it's the best option, Id still go for it i suppose.
> Also, can my Ipod drive the 250 Ohm by itself, if not, is a 20 dollar FIO enough ?
> Some help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, awesome guide there, kudos!


At that price it may be in your best interest to get an external DAC/AMP, especially if you plan to use them with an iPod. An E17 is around the same price, and it's portable so you can use it at home or with your iPod, and it's a fairly powerful amp for it's size and price, driving most headphones up to 300ohms.


----------



## Shrimpykins

I have a set of Polk RTi-A1 speakers coming to me. What should I be looking for as far as an amp?

I've been recommended the 50/chan emotiva (kinda expensive) and the dta-100a (read about tons of imbalance issues with volume pot). What other options are out there that are quality amps?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> I have a set of Polk RTi-A1 speakers coming to me. What should I be looking for as far as an amp?
> I've been recommended the 50/chan emotiva (kinda expensive) and the dta-100a (read about tons of imbalance issues with volume pot). What other options are out there that are quality amps?


You could just get a nice home theater receiver. I dunno why people always recommend expensive amps when a receiver will probably provide better audio quality.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> You could just get a nice home theater receiver. I dunno why people always recommend expensive amps when a receiver will probably provide better audio quality.


Such as?

The DTA is $90.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

http://hi-end-surplus.store.buy.com/p/yamaha-rx-v373-3d-a-v-receiver-5-1-channel-black-dolby-truehd-dts-hd/229471587.html


----------



## Calcifar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> At that price it may be in your best interest to get an external DAC/AMP, especially if you plan to use them with an iPod. An E17 is around the same price, and it's portable so you can use it at home or with your iPod, and it's a fairly powerful amp for it's size and price, driving most headphones up to 300ohms.


Heya!

The reason i didnt consider portable Amps so far (or went away from them after considering them) was twofold :

Firstly, it seemed like these portable amps run through batteries and are not chargeable during use. This would be quite bad for long Desktop useage.

Secondly, I red many opinions which state that basicly, the sound quality gained by portable amps, are sub- bar.

And third, I dont think ill be able to use dolby sorround or the likes with an Amp ?

I still need a reply concerning the sound card and which one exactly to choose. If I go with the Xonar ST, I still have no clue which one of these Im supposed to buy, there are so many at different prices.


----------



## SquallPT

Can any of the experts clarify something for me? Its about the Astro Mixamp Pro, is it a DAC or just an amp? Does it bypass the sound generated by your soundcard? I ask this because a friend of mine has one of the 1st mixamps to come out, I hooked it up to my soundcard (Asus D2X) via SPDIF and selected dolby digital live on the soundcard control panel, and to my ears it sounds worse than the soundcard alone. By the way the headphones im using are the DT770 32ohm.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> http://hi-end-surplus.store.buy.com/p/yamaha-rx-v373-3d-a-v-receiver-5-1-channel-black-dolby-truehd-dts-hd/229471587.html


So you want me to spend $230 on a 5.1 receiver for a 2.0 system instead of $90 for a stereo amp with headphone out so I can use it for my PC360's? Unless you have some information on why I should spend more for something I don't need I think I will stick with an amplifier.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> I have a set of Polk RTi-A1 speakers coming to me. What should I be looking for as far as an amp?
> 
> I've been recommended the 50/chan emotiva (kinda expensive) and the dta-100a (read about tons of imbalance issues with volume pot). What other options are out there that are quality amps?
> 
> 
> 
> You could just get a nice home theater receiver. I dunno why people always recommend expensive amps when a receiver will probably provide better audio quality.
Click to expand...

The problem with buying a receiver is that you're spending a lot of money for a lot of stuff you don't need. For that 230 dollars you just paid for a receiver you could buy a much better DAC and a better amp. Unless you need the receiver for other reasons like 5.1 or any features the receiver may have it's usually not the best bang for the buck to go with a receiver.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> I have a set of Polk RTi-A1 speakers coming to me. What should I be looking for as far as an amp?
> 
> I've been recommended the 50/chan emotiva (kinda expensive) and the dta-100a (read about tons of imbalance issues with volume pot). What other options are out there that are quality amps?
> 
> 
> 
> You could just get a nice home theater receiver. I dunno why people always recommend expensive amps when a receiver will probably provide better audio quality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem with buying a receiver is that you're spending a lot of money for a lot of stuff you don't need. For that 230 dollars you just paid for a receiver you could buy a much better DAC and a better amp. Unless you need the receiver for other reasons like 5.1 or any features the receiver may have it's usually not the best bang for the buck to go with a receiver.
Click to expand...

This. Although with a receiver you don't need a DAC really as you can use a digital signal into it. Another big problem with that $230 receiver is that its the low end, bottom of the barrel receiver from Yamaha. I'll bet it puts out no more power than the DTA-100a does per channel, realistically. My DTA-100a measures at 40w RMS per channel at 8ohm (cleanly to my ears as I have no o scope). My Yamaha RX 467 receiver (the step up from that one posted) offers 60w RMS per channel metered cleanly. I really doubt the bottom of the barrel one has that kind of power as I believe it weighed a good 2-3 pounds less. Less weight USUALLY is going to mean less power.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The problem with buying a receiver is that you're spending a lot of money for a lot of stuff you don't need. For that 230 dollars you just paid for a receiver you could buy a much better DAC and a better amp. Unless you need the receiver for other reasons like 5.1 or any features the receiver may have it's usually not the best bang for the buck to go with a receiver.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> This. Although with a receiver you don't need a DAC really as you can use a digital signal into it. Another big problem with that $230 receiver is that its the low end, bottom of the barrel receiver from Yamaha. I'll bet it puts out no more power than the DTA-100a does per channel, realistically. My DTA-100a measures at 40w RMS per channel at 8ohm (cleanly to my ears as I have no o scope). My Yamaha RX 467 receiver (the step up from that one posted) offers 60w RMS per channel metered cleanly. I really doubt the bottom of the barrel one has that kind of power as I believe it weighed a good 2-3 pounds less. Less weight USUALLY is going to mean less power.


Ok. I always thought that the digital receivers were much cleaner than the amps. Having owned both digital and analogue with a good soundcard, I would say the receiver is worth it, but some may disagree. One thing I don't like about the dta is the lack of a balance and such.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Ok so I have a decent question, I think. What is better, 50w per channel @ 8 ohms or 75w per channel @ 4 ohms? The lower the amp ohms the better right?

I am trying to decide between the dta-100a and the apa150 for a 2.0 set of Polk RTi-A1's.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> Ok so I have a decent question, I think. What is better, 50w per channel @ 8 ohms or 75w per channel @ 4 ohms? The lower the amp ohms the better right?
> 
> I am trying to decide between the dta-100a and the apa150 for a 2.0 set of Polk RTi-A1's.


You'll want 8ohm power, as the RTi-A1's are 8ohm speakers. You want to match the impedance (ohms) of the speakers and amplifier. 75w at 4ohm will be somewhere around 37w RMS at 8ohm.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> Ok so I have a decent question, I think. What is better, 50w per channel @ 8 ohms or 75w per channel @ 4 ohms? The lower the amp ohms the better right?
> 
> I am trying to decide between the dta-100a and the apa150 for a 2.0 set of Polk RTi-A1's.


Uhh...Pioneer would be better equipped to answer this question, but I believe that you'd ideally want to find a number with better 8ohm rating than 4 ohm. It's also completely dependent on the needs of your particular passive speaker. Some are very sensitive and don't need a lot of power. Some a very unsensitive and need a lot of power.

Not sure I wrote my explanation of what you need clearly enough.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> Ok so I have a decent question, I think. What is better, 50w per channel @ 8 ohms or 75w per channel @ 4 ohms? The lower the amp ohms the better right?
> 
> I am trying to decide between the dta-100a and the apa150 for a 2.0 set of Polk RTi-A1's.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh...Pioneer would be better equipped to answer this question, but I believe that you'd ideally want to find a number with better 8ohm rating than 4 ohm. It's also completely dependent on the needs of your particular passive speaker. Some are very sensitive and don't need a lot of power. Some a very unsensitive and need a lot of power.
> 
> Not sure I wrote my explanation of what you need clearly enough.
Click to expand...

We're both right, just we're both still making things too difficult, lol.

8 ohm speakers = buy an amplifier with the most power (in budget) at 8ohm.
4ohm speakers (or two 8ohm pairs in parallel) = buy a 4ohm amplifier

Since you're using a pair of 8ohm house bookshelf speakers, you want the most power you can get at 8ohm.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> You'll want 8ohm power, as the RTi-A1's are 8ohm speakers. You want to match the impedance (ohms) of the speakers and amplifier. 75w at 4ohm will be somewhere around 37w RMS at 8ohm.


So the dta-100a is probably a good match for them, right?\

Nevermind, answered above.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> You'll want 8ohm power, as the RTi-A1's are 8ohm speakers. You want to match the impedance (ohms) of the speakers and amplifier. 75w at 4ohm will be somewhere around 37w RMS at 8ohm.
> 
> 
> 
> So the dta-100a is probably a good match for them, right?\
> 
> Nevermind, answered above.
Click to expand...

Yes it'll be the best match for them that I personally know of, up until you get into receiver territory. That 4ohm Dayton amp is more than likely a better amplifier, but you'll need 4ohm speakers to be able to fully utlize it, which you won't have.

Most, if not almost all of home audio speakers are going to be 6 or 8ohm (usually 8). 6 is extremely rare, but I've seen it from time to time, and USUALLY an 8ohm amp will power 6ohm speakers fine and without overheating. 4ohm speakers on the other hand, those are typically car audio, or something you've custom made yourself. Since Parts Express offers a LOT of options for building your own speakers, and since those amps are small enough to work in a car....4ohm makes sense there.

For your case, the DTA-100a, or spend some more and get a receiver if you want more than that. My opinion there.


----------



## aksthem1

With the DTA-100 a 8 ohm load is the minimum as it states. Speaker impedance changes at different frequencies. Dipping too low can damage the amp or burn it out. This is just a safeguard because different speakers will react differently.

If you want just an amp that can do 50w cleanly then you are going to spend a lot more than $100. The APA150 will do that of course. Huge thing that is.

With the Polks they are 89dB of sensitivity. They are very efficient and 40w is more than enough to cause hearing damage at nearfield ranges.


----------



## Face76

Although they're rated as a 8ohm speaker, they do indeed dip down to 4ohms in the upper bass.


----------



## Kieran

Would it be a waste of money to purchase a Creative Titanium HD, for use with my Creative Inspire T3130's or will i not notice much of a difference?


----------



## Statius

Could some Audiophiles chime in on my Xonar DGX?

I choose it over the DX and DG. What;s different about this one?

What is this card best for?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Statius*
> 
> Could some Audiophiles chime in on my Xonar DGX?
> 
> I choose it over the DX and DG. What;s different about this one?
> 
> What is this card best for?


Pretty sure it just adds Dolby Headphone to the Xonar DG that lacked it.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Pretty sure it just adds Dolby Headphone to the Xonar DG that lacked it.


But the DG does have Dolby


----------



## Shrimpykins

The Xonar DG is PCI, the DGX is PCI-e (X stands for express maybe?). Other than that, the DG and DGX are the exact same.

The DX is a different card than the DG/DGX and is better than the DG/DGX. It does not have an amp like the DG/DGX though (someone want to verify this? the DG/DGX amp mode seems like a gimmick).


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Pretty sure it just adds Dolby Headphone to the Xonar DG that lacked it.
> 
> 
> 
> But the DG does have Dolby
Click to expand...

Does it? I thought the DG lacked Dolby Headphone for some reason. That makes the DG a much better buy than I originally thought. Anyhow, as the post above explained the only difference is the slot the card fits into.


----------



## mikeaj

Xonar DG and DGX have Dolby Headphone. There is a TI DRV601 chip handling the headphone out:
http://www.ti.com/product/drv601

As is typical, that data sheet does not specify performance into loads under 600 ohms. The performance is definitely going to be worse into a lower impedance, but likely it is still okay. Actually, they specify a minimum load impedance at 100 ohms, but lower than that is likely okay as well (just not if at a really high output level?).

What I mean to say is that it has some kind of output that could be considered a headphone amplifier, sure, just probably not a particularly great one. They added this chip to serve that purpose; however, the performance of the output with headphones is unknown to us since I don't think anybody's tested it and released the results publicly. Take that as you will, understanding that this is a lower-cost sound card but also that some engineers at Asus are probably not completely clueless about their design.


----------



## aksthem1

Fry's has the P153 pair for $100. I'm tempted in buying a set just to see what the fuss is about.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Fry's has the P153 pair for $100. I'm tempted in buying a set just to see what the fuss is about.


That's how much I paid for my pair.


----------



## bjgrenke

Whats a good closed headphone for someone coming from a DT990 Pro? I'm looking for something that sounds similar, but closed, and in the same price range (~$250). Besides the obvious choice of the DT770 Pro.


----------



## Simca

Ultrasone Pro 750.


----------



## Riou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 750.


These are some good cans if I do say so myself.


----------



## nicoliani

Thinking about this card "*Asus Soundcard Xonar D2 7.1*" is it worth it? I have a 2.1 setup, does the 7.1 mean it will deliver sound in 7.1 or that is can manage a 7.1 setup? Because I only want it to play at 2.1 two speakers and a sub.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicoliani*
> 
> Thinking about this card "*Asus Soundcard Xonar D2 7.1*" is it worth it? I have a 2.1 setup, does the 7.1 mean it will deliver sound in 7.1 or that is can manage a 7.1 setup? Because I only want it to play at 2.1 two speakers and a sub.


The D2 gets no recommendation from me.

7.1 means it can handle up to 7.1 channels. You can't really get 7.1 in a stereo headphone unless you have a bunch of crappy tiny drivers in the cups.


----------



## Madman340

Simca, I have a question regarding how sound cards handle outside input. I want to hook my 360 up to some good headphones, and want to find a way to play sound clips through the microphone, obviously without just putting a speaker near the microphone, though. I figure I could just use a sound card and then have my PC sound going out into the microphone...? Not too sure on this one. Another thing is, I was wondering if getting a sound card would eliminate the need for a Dolby digital processor such as the Astro Mixamp or Turtle Beach's DSS2. Will the sound card provide positioning cues even though it's external sound, or can it not process that?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madman340*
> 
> Simca, I have a question regarding how sound cards handle outside input. I want to hook my 360 up to some good headphones, and want to find a way to play sound clips through the microphone, obviously without just putting a speaker near the microphone, though. I figure I could just use a sound card and then have my PC sound going out into the microphone...? Not too sure on this one. Another thing is, I was wondering if getting a sound card would eliminate the need for a Dolby digital processor such as the Astro Mixamp or Turtle Beach's DSS2. Will the sound card provide positioning cues even though it's external sound, or can it not process that?


Quite a few things here and I'm going to refrain from answering any xbox 360 questions because I'm not too familiar with audio in that department.

Yes, theoretically a sound card should make the use of a DDS2/Mixamp obsolete, but how you'd use the sound card through the Xbox 360 is another question that I'm not in a position to answer. Never did that. Sadly, when playing xb0x, I just use speakers and the crappy headset for team chat, don't use any high end headphones for gaming there. For PC that's a different matter.

Assuming the Mixamp is nothing more than DH and a weak amp, then the soundcard should be good to replace it. If for some reason there's more to the mixamp than simply DH...such as the modification of the mids and highs..then..perhaps it may not be an equal replacement, that's not to say it'll be better or worse.


----------



## bjgrenke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 750/


I've been looking at those. Would it be worth it paying around the same price for a set of lightly used Pro 900s? Also, would the low impedance on the Ultrasone cans sound worse than my 250ohm headphones?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bjgrenke*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 750/
> 
> 
> 
> I've been looking at those. Would it be worth it paying around the same price for a set of lightly used Pro 900s? Also, would the low impedance on the Ultrasone cans sound worse than my 250ohm headphones?
Click to expand...

Go with the 900s. I don't follow you on the ohm's having something to do with the quality of a headphone. That's more important for a particular headphone. The ability of a particular driver and the headphone design to fluctuate appropriately and produce better sound.

So you could have a 600 ohm low grade headphone that sounds like crap or a 32 ohm high grade headphone that sounds great. the ohmage is nothing more than how difficult the headphone is to drive. How much power is needed to make the driver move, reverberate or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## tx-jose

My AD700s will be here on Wed thank to this thread!!!

On my onboard audio... :/


----------



## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> My AD700s will be here on Wed thank to this thread!!!
> On my onboard audio... :/


Ya my first round with headphones I went with onboard, I ordered a DG with my replacement pair of HARX 900s hopefully all goes well.


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> Ya my first round with headphones I went with onboard, I ordered a DG with my replacement pair of HARX 900s hopefully all goes well.


well i have mini ITX so my only option would be n external DAC


----------



## bjgrenke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Go with the 900s. I don't follow you on the ohm's having something to do with the quality of a headphone. That's more important for a particular headphone. The ability of a particular driver and the headphone design to fluctuate appropriately and produce better sound.
> So you could have a 600 ohm low grade headphone that sounds like crap or a 32 ohm high grade headphone that sounds great. the ohmage is nothing more than how difficult the headphone is to drive. How much power is needed to make the driver move, reverberate or whatever you want to call it.


Great info







Can't do much until I get rid of my 990s anyways so I'll keep looking.


----------



## Simca

Thread is up to date.

I have returned my content to OCN for everyone's needs and pleasure, but rest assured the issue between myself and the moderators is still unsettled, but we have taken steps moving forward that I hope will soon rectify things.

[Edit] Post updated to most recent version. - Thanks Pioneerisloud for figuring out individual posts can be locked.


----------



## Simca

Answering a few general questions I often get:

The Beyerdynamic headphones of the 250 and 600 ohm version and all headphones with simple resistance issues DO run off ipods and smartphones. I want to make that very clear. You can even listen to them at a decent level. Mind you, you won't listen to them at a loud level, but if you're like me, you can listen to them at a decent NORMAL listening level. Keep in mind without an amp you don't be able to drive them appropriately and get the most out of your headphone, especially the lower end of the spectrum, but IMO you don't need a FiiO product to drive them while on the go. I also personally don't recommend walking around with Beyerdynamics or any full sized headphone.

Another issue I wanted to bring up was regarding the differences between the DT770, DT880, DT990.

For the record, the DT880 does not have boosted bass. The headphone is very neutral. The bass isn't very impacting and some bass lovers may not appreciate the DT880s for it's bass. That's not to say the DT880s don't have bass. They very much do and a significant amount more than the AD700s. They're not as bassy as the RX700/900s. If you're a bass lover and aren't too fond of the bass on the DT880s and DO have them amped, I suggest raising the bass levels on the EQ slightly. Even a couple notches up on the low end might bring them up to where you might enjoy them.

The DT990s and DT770s have boosted bass and the treble is also effected because of this. The DT990s have unpleasant treble with the DT990s being the bigger offender here.

Another issue I wanted to bring up was that while the DT880s may not have the impact bass of the DT990s or the DT770s, they do have the bass presence all throughout the low end, even extending down to 15hz. In a sense, I think the DT880s even extend lower than the DT990s and DT770s, despite not having the boomy bass of the other two.

IMO, the bass of the DT880s is enjoyable especially if you're not the type that only listens to bassy music and enjoy the vocals more than the bass. If you really do appreciate the bass and to a greater extent than vocals, I would say opt for the 990s or the 770s.

That's all I'm addressing for the moment, but I'll release a Beyerdynamic DT880 in depth review soon.


----------



## tx-jose

I am glad that your probles with the mods are starting to see some forward progress!!!

Like i have stated already i got my AD700s because of your recomendation and am wearing them right now. I must say....WOW....even on onboard audio...just WOW!!!


----------



## iARDAs

I currently have the AKG AKS headset I got via the recommendation here. It is a good headset but I am trying to get someting even better now. I hate the mic in this thing. It picks up everything around.

In the past I really wanted to purchase the Asus Vulcan is it really garbage?

Also if i just get a headphone and than a mic, would the mic pick up everything around like the mic in the AKG headset? I really want a mic that will only be active when I talk, such as the Official Ps3 headset released by Sony for PS3. That thing was great for online communication.


----------



## nicoliani

Here is my review of my recent purchase of Bose AE2



The review was first put in Swedish so I just used Google Translate:
Quote:


> Was looking for comfort with quality this time.
> Did a couple of handy tricks that were not hard to put on or wear for things you do often listen to YouTube videos, play games, and music in general ...
> 
> Could not be reached better options than these. The only thing I miss is a microphone for the game, but I may run an external mic because I could not find a headset that kept my requirements.
> 
> The sound is good, not what one can demand of the heavier models of soil conditions but for the purpose they're very good, given its small size.
> 
> Heat, not directly because they get hot, but it's a small temperature increase around the ear area. Hope this will drop after a corporate using.
> 
> Need an extra pair of comfortable headphones that AE2 is the best you can bet on.
> 
> Avoid OE2, in store they sounded better, but now that I, contrast them so it can not be measured against these.
> In addition, pressing them on the ears had their ears to ache, and they became very hot too.


I would say the sound coming out of these are coming with much higher quality than any general gaming headset.
If not 100% deepness of sound, with that I mean that the sound would become another dimensional of your gaming experience but still these pick up audio in a game and play it very good that other headphones simply don't pick up.
I would say they don't differ much different from Bose home cinema systems so I recommend them for multimedia purpose as gaming and watching movies.
Although if you are looking for something over the top, these phones aren't making that requirement, not even close.


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Answering a few general questions I often get:
> The Beyerdynamic headphones of the 250 and 600 ohm version and all headphones with simple resistance issues DO run off ipods and smartphones. I want to make that very clear. You can even listen to them at a decent level. Mind you, you won't listen to them at a loud level, but if you're like me, you can listen to them at a decent NORMAL listening level. Keep in mind without an amp you don't be able to drive them appropriately and get the most out of your headphone, especially the lower end of the spectrum, but IMO you don't need a FiiO product to drive them while on the go. I also personally don't recommend walking around with Beyerdynamics or any full sized headphone.
> Another issue I wanted to bring up was regarding the differences between the DT770, DT880, DT990.
> For the record, the DT880 does not have boosted bass. The headphone is very neutral. The bass isn't very impacting and some bass lovers may not appreciate the DT880s for it's bass. That's not to say the DT880s don't have bass. They very much do and a significant amount more than the AD700s. They're not as bassy as the RX700/900s. If you're a bass lover and aren't too fond of the bass on the DT880s and DO have them amped, I suggest raising the bass levels on the EQ slightly. Even a couple notches up on the low end might bring them up to where you might enjoy them.
> The DT990s and DT770s have boosted bass and the treble is also effected because of this. The DT990s have unpleasant treble with the DT990s being the bigger offender here.
> Another issue I wanted to bring up was that while the DT880s may not have the impact bass of the DT990s or the DT770s, they do have the bass presence all throughout the low end, even extending down to 15hz. In a sense, I think the DT880s even extend lower than the DT990s and DT770s, despite not having the boomy bass of the other two.
> IMO, the bass of the DT880s is enjoyable especially if you're not the type that only listens to bassy music and enjoy the vocals more than the bass. If you really do appreciate the bass and to a greater extent than vocals, I would say opt for the 990s or the 770s.
> That's all I'm addressing for the moment, but I'll release a Beyerdynamic DT880 in depth review soon.


Depends on which DT880's ver your talking about, If your talking about the Premiums then yea, But if your talking about the DT880 Pro-250 then no as they have more bass then the premiums but because of the way they clamp on your head.

I listened to all types of Dnb, dupstep and etc with the Pro-250s and they have alot of bass, they can go deep as well hit hard when the music calls for it. The DT880 pro-250's are not netural because of them having more bass but of course it not slamming bass like the DT770 pro-80's..

The pros also have better sound imaging then the premium's too where people mention that there was a blind spot in the positional when they was gaming with the premium's which isnt there On the DT880 pro-250s..


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Answering a few general questions I often get:
> The Beyerdynamic headphones of the 250 and 600 ohm version and all headphones with simple resistance issues DO run off ipods and smartphones. I want to make that very clear. You can even listen to them at a decent level. Mind you, you won't listen to them at a loud level, but if you're like me, you can listen to them at a decent NORMAL listening level. Keep in mind without an amp you don't be able to drive them appropriately and get the most out of your headphone, especially the lower end of the spectrum, but IMO you don't need a FiiO product to drive them while on the go. I also personally don't recommend walking around with Beyerdynamics or any full sized headphone.
> Another issue I wanted to bring up was regarding the differences between the DT770, DT880, DT990.
> For the record, the DT880 does not have boosted bass. The headphone is very neutral. The bass isn't very impacting and some bass lovers may not appreciate the DT880s for it's bass. That's not to say the DT880s don't have bass. They very much do and a significant amount more than the AD700s. They're not as bassy as the RX700/900s. If you're a bass lover and aren't too fond of the bass on the DT880s and DO have them amped, I suggest raising the bass levels on the EQ slightly. Even a couple notches up on the low end might bring them up to where you might enjoy them.
> The DT990s and DT770s have boosted bass and the treble is also effected because of this. The DT990s have unpleasant treble with the DT990s being the bigger offender here.
> Another issue I wanted to bring up was that while the DT880s may not have the impact bass of the DT990s or the DT770s, they do have the bass presence all throughout the low end, even extending down to 15hz. In a sense, I think the DT880s even extend lower than the DT990s and DT770s, despite not having the boomy bass of the other two.
> IMO, the bass of the DT880s is enjoyable especially if you're not the type that only listens to bassy music and enjoy the vocals more than the bass. If you really do appreciate the bass and to a greater extent than vocals, I would say opt for the 990s or the 770s.
> That's all I'm addressing for the moment, but I'll release a Beyerdynamic DT880 in depth review soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on which DT880's ver your talking about, If your talking about the Premiums then yea, But if your talking about the DT880 Pro-250 then no as they have more bass then the premiums but because of the way they clamp on your head.
> 
> I listened to all types of Dnb, dupstep and etc with the Pro-250s and they have alot of bass, they can go deep as well hit hard when the music calls for it. The DT880 pro-250's are not netural because of them having more bass but of course it not slamming bass like the DT770 pro-80's..
> 
> The pros also have better sound imaging then the premium's too where people mention that there was a blind spot in the positional when they was gaming with the premium's which isnt there On the DT880 pro-250s..
Click to expand...

From personal experience, all I can say is that all versions of the DT880 are basically all neutral. There are minute differences amongst the ohm versions, but all in all they're neutral headphones. I thought the least of the 250 ohm version compared to all the others.

Let's also be clear that a headphone having bass doesn't mean it's not neutral. It's a well balanced and flat headphone.


----------



## chinesekiwi

The differences in the ohm versions isn't so much the sound signature, but the sound fidelity via lower distortion and better damping ratio. The drivers are also different in thinner driver diaphragm wire as the higher ohm versions.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

both the subjective and objective backs this up. The links are in the guide.


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> From personal experience, all I can say is that all versions of the DT880 are basically all neutral. There are minute differences amongst the ohm versions, but all in all they're neutral headphones. I thought the least of the 250 ohm version compared to all the others.
> Let's also be clear that a headphone having bass doesn't mean it's not neutral. It's a well balanced and flat headphone.


Edit: Maybe my view of Neutral is different then what it actually is. Because I had a AKG 702 prior to having the DT 880 *pro* and I felt the AKG 702s I had was flat and these DT880 pro-250 wasn't.


----------



## chinesekiwi

This one:

it summed up my subjective differences as well as I've heard the DT770 250ohm Premium, DT770/600, DT880/250 Premium, DT880/600, DT990/600, DT990/250 Premium all in one sitting. (mini beyerdynamic meet lols)

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


----------



## Simca

The Pros have a more compressed sound which leads to better bass. Apparently this is good for studio use, but as far as music listening goes the Premiums are the better headphone.

Personally, I wouldn't call the K701/2's flat. What do you think CK? Would you call the K701/2's flat?


----------



## chinesekiwi

the K701 / K702 is sub bass recessed. 'Flat' or neutral is really similar to the beyerdynamic T1. Even then you really have to bump it +3 dB (from 20 Hz sliding off to +0 dB at ~500Hz with the drop off starting at ~ 100Hz) to negate the driver limitation of headphones affecting bass impact + of course how you position the headphone on your head, which also affects bass impact and response.



In other words, truely 'flat' or 'neutral sounding' headphones (in terms of sound signature) are in fact slightly bass boosted.
Many audiophiles however prefer a bass recessed sound, for whatever reason.

Electrical circuit wise, headphones are very similar to speakers, but the psychoacoustics affecting each other are completely different.

I have no issues equalising if it's used *for equalising*, not to '*bass boost to 11!!!!!*


----------



## chinesekiwi

replaced the 'poor man's solution' with a 'super cheap, super sound' section. As the Monoprice 8323 is better than the HD201 for the same price it's replaced.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Just got my DTA-100a in and hooked up my Polk RTi-A1's to it.

O_O

Guess I have never heard a decent set of speakers before. All I've ever really had was a logitech Z 5.1 setup (the big one) and then some sony/pioneer systems with paper cone speakers.

I am thinking about trying to build my next set. Woodies are what I had in mind, http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=woodies.

Anyone ever built their own set?


----------



## aksthem1

And Fry's now has the P163 pair for $107.

That is even more tempting than their previous P153 deal.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> And Fry's now has the P163 pair for $107.
> 
> That is even more tempting than their previous P153 deal.


Yes and No.

The P163's are better for mid-field listening, but the mid range in the P153s will be better than the P163's for nearfield listening.


----------



## snoball

Any words on the Sony MDR-V55, they come with a laptop I am checking out.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Any words on the Sony MDR-V55, they come with a laptop I am checking out.


Sell them for anything anyone will give you for them.

Just kidding, never heard them or know anything about them, but I probably would sell it and buy whatever headphone I could with the proceeds.


----------



## snoball

Decided to order something else, thanks anyways Simca!

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=MDRV55/BR

That was the headphones.


----------



## General Crumples

Can someone recommend me a REALLY comfortable pair of headphones for $100? With velour/velvet pads already on them? Something with good clarity, detail, soundstage, and some bass. I want something that will keep my ears cool and won't get sweaty or sticky where it touches the skin.

Not a dime more then $100 please.


----------



## bjgrenke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> Can someone recommend me a REALLY comfortable pair of headphones for $100? With velour/velvet pads already on them? Something with good clarity, detail, soundstage, and some bass. I want something that will keep my ears cool and won't get sweaty or sticky where it touches the skin.
> Not a dime more then $100 please.


These are pretty good for the price. My friend has them, I gave them a listen and I was impressed in the detail for such a cheap headphone. Bass is there, but not anything mindblowing.


----------



## snoball

More question for you guys!

I bought this laptop: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd//HP-Pavilion-dv6-7027nr/productID.250639100

I know it has the Beats audio, I am assuming this means something for the sound card as well as the speakers? Will it work with my Samson SR850 with similar sound quality to my desktop XFI Titanium? If not what must be done to get comparable sound quality. Also I intend to purchase new cans soon. I am listening to a lot of *DnB* right now.


----------



## Simca

Beats technology means zero.

Does nothing to improve SQ.

It's all software.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Beats technology means zero.
> Does nothing to improve SQ.
> It's all software.


This.


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> More question for you guys!
> I bought this laptop: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd//HP-Pavilion-dv6-7027nr/productID.250639100
> I know it has the Beats audio, I am assuming this means something for the sound card as well as the speakers? Will it work with my Samson SR850 with similar sound quality to my desktop XFI Titanium? If not what must be done to get comparable sound quality. Also I intend to purchase new cans soon. I am listening to a lot of *DnB* right now.


The whole Beats audio software is just marketing. Also you can use a External Dac like a AUDIOTRAK Prodigy CUBE which is usb based that goes for $99 on ebay or from the audiotrak site.


----------



## snoball

Since it is a "meh" sounding system and beats means crap, as I had expected, can you guys recommend some DACs?

I have seen some people, possibly here on OCN, buying FiiO E7s and E17s. I also heard about it combining with the E9? Are any of those worth it?


----------



## mikeaj

You may want to look at better headphones first, but in particular for very deep bass getting a better amp would definitely make a difference. (cheap solutions tend to use a DC blocking capacitor on the output that is undersized, so in fact it's attenuating the low frequencies a bit as well, i.e. blocking a bit more than DC which is 0 Hz of course. also, many cheap devices have high output impedance, which means flabbier bass.)

The FiiO products are straight-up audio hardware using Windows generic drivers, so no software features. Just good 2-channel sound. E7 and E17 are USB-powered combo USB DAC + headphone amps. They also have two other distinguishing features: (1) they can be unplugged, run from battery, and used as a headphone amplifier (feed analog input, get amplified output), and (2) they can be docked to the E9. When docked to the E9, you're making use of only the USB DAC functionality and using the E9 as the amp. The E9 is a more powerful amp, where more power = capable of higher volume, not necessarily anything about sound quality. In fact, the actual performance is really not in a different league or anything like that. Note that most headphones, including yours, definitely don't need more volume to be deafeningly loud.

Generally in that kind of price range, the usual suggestion is the E10, which is another USB-powered combo USB DAC + headphone amp. It's cheaper than the E7 slightly, has better sound quality and higher output power, but you can't use it as a portable amp and it can't be docked to the E9 (though you could just connect the normal output to an E9 if you really wanted).

The cheaper options tend to have issues mentioned earlier like too high output impedance and undersized DC blocking cap. E10 is one of the cheapest devices without those issues.


----------



## lb_felipe

How is Topping TP22 compared to Lepai TA2020A+ and also Dayton DTA-100a?


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Excuse me, I read the first post, but was wondering.

I need a good set of speakers, computer speakers, just to set on the desk. I plan on using my Noontec Zoro Headphones the most, but would like to have pretty good speakers for such things as Youtube or something. Anyhow, I was considering doing the Dayton/Lepai/ Speaker Wire to 3.5 mm adapter, never done anything like that. So I would probably mess it up.

Is there any decent speakers around the $50.00 besides the Creatives that was listed? Was hoping on using Newegg to find the speakers.


----------



## Simca

Updated Thread with new Banners separating sections and changing color scheme of text to match a more OCNish style.

That said these are just place markers, I'm looking for people that are creative and good with photoshop that are willing to replace the banners with their own artwork/skill/banner. Please private message me some of your work (IE - A banner that would replace the one in place for "Introduction.")

Keep in mind this is an ongoing request for artwork to replace the one in this thread. Just because one goes up one month doesn't mean yours can't replace it. Send some of your work in and we'll review it and put it up if it's great! Keep in mind there may be many requests coming in, so if we don't get to yours it's not because it's not good, but there are others we'd like to see go up.

That said, let's see OCN's talent and make this thread look even better.


----------



## bigal1542

Figured this might be the place to ask, I can make a thread if nobody here knows.

I got an old school iPod that I use for music working out and stuff. I brought it on vacation and was using it with A900s and the bass sounded like garbage. It almost sounded like the headphones were blown out. I tried the headphones in my bros newer iPod and it worked fine. My earbuds also sound fine on it, but they aren't anything of great quality, I just use them because they are great for working out with.

Any ideas on what to do? Get a new iPod, get an amp that I can drag along or what?

Thanks,
Al

PS: Excellent work Simca, the guide looks spectacular.


----------



## Lifeshield

Went into Curry's today with my wife to listen to some headphones. I listened to a pair of Dr Dre Beats and a pair or Sennheiser HD205's, along with some other headphones (a pair of Sony's and a pair of Philips though I didn't catch the model numbers). I used my HD7 as my source using a cover of Linking Parks "In the end" by "Us" to test.

I liked the bass on the Beats, and the Philips, but the sound quality overall was alot better on the HD205's. There was also no sound loss on the Sennheisers. My wife said she could hear everything fairly clearly when I had the Beats on, but couldn't hear hardly anything at all when I had the Sennheisers on. The Sennheisers were very comfortable (the most comfortable of all the headphones I tried on) aswell and of good build quality.

I feel pretty much sold on them but what is the general opinion of the HD205's? Is there anything else readily available that's better in the same price range in the UK? (£45) Anything with a bit more depth in the bass?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lifeshield*
> 
> Went into Curry's today with my wife to listen to some headphones. I listened to a pair of Dr Dre Beats and a pair or Sennheiser HD205's, along with some other headphones (a pair of Sony's and a pair of Philips though I didn't catch the model numbers). I used my HD7 as my source using a cover of Linking Parks "In the end" by "Us" to test.
> 
> I liked the bass on the Beats, and the Philips, but the sound quality overall was alot better on the HD205's. There was also no sound loss on the Sennheisers. My wife said she could hear everything fairly clearly when I had the Beats on, but couldn't hear hardly anything at all when I had the Sennheisers on. The Sennheisers were very comfortable (the most comfortable of all the headphones I tried on) aswell and of good build quality.
> 
> I feel pretty much sold on them but what is the general opinion of the HD205's? Is there anything else readily available that's better in the same price range in the UK? (£45) Anything with a bit more depth in the bass?


http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMSON-209995-SR850/dp/B002LBSEQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345500578&sr=8-1

I live in America. You need to research where they might be available near you otherwise you're reliant on my opinion.

That said these run all over all of the headphones you listened to in every aspect.


----------



## Lifeshield

*Edit:* Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into those.

I have opened up a thread *here* for my own wants and needs so I shall not derail this thread further with my desires and requests, but thanks for the reply.


----------



## lb_felipe

I looked for NAD amplifiers, but I found no small.


----------



## iARDAs

Anyone uses or knows about this headset?

http://www.astrogaming.com/a50/a50-wireless-system


----------



## Gilgamesh9

First thanks to HybridCore i found this brilliant post
I am going to do upgrades soon my speakers and maybe headphones

From before I have Harman soundstick 3 speakers and Beyerdynamic 770 Pro 80ohms Headphones
My Pc has Asus Xonar Essence Soundcard

I Music i mostly listen too isPop,bass,trance,dance, and gaming (crysis2, Mass efect, Metro 2033 ... offline gaming
I need headphones for night use as i live in 4th floor in building

Now my questions

1. What is the best upgrade to Harman soundstick 3 for like 250-300 euro apx...

2. I liked the Swan M50W but where do i buy this in Europe?

3. Where can i buy a similar speaker stand without having to make them myself?
http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/1072471-project-ikea-speaker-stand.html

4. My Beyerdynamic 770 Pro give me good sound but they so much presure on the ear
i even tried streched them over months without luck

So should i get some of theese?

Sennheiser HD598 (for good sound and design)
Superlux 668B (mostly for gaming as a extra pair since is cheap)
Audio technica AD700 for Gaming (is it worth it for Crysis2 or Mass efect if only playing Offline?)

5. Or should i get

Beyerdynamic MMX300 personalized









Are these worth to buy if i already has 770 Pro mostly because of the buildt in low-quality mic and the design
(i mostly wanted to buy these for the personalized color design)
But MMX 300 will press on ear hard as 770 pro does?

6. Or should i just forget the above and go for a V-moda V-80 true blood
it look so amazing can use it for music then get a Audiotechnica AD700 for gaming

Thanks to this fantastic post i discovered V-80 and i like it



I never used V-moda headphones so i have to ask
Do they sound more similar to sennheiser bass or beyerdynamic 770?

Do they not press on the head like 770 do?

Can the wire be detached on V-80 true blood?

Is it possible to buy a Plush earpad version instead of leather pad?
thats my only concern of V-80 i am mostly used to plush (like on 770 Pro) not leather
unless the leather is extremly soft

Will V-80 still be something good for me?
i realy like the design, if it sound great and is comfortable then perfect

Where can i buy V-moda in Europe?


----------



## Simca

The Vmoda's won't press against your head as hard, but they won't sound as good. I don't know how the Vmodas do in gaming, but I don't expect them to be good.

Not worth it to get the MMX300s if you have DT770s.

I assume you've tried stretching your DT770s over your PC case or something already.

598s will be the opposite of what the DT770s are.


----------



## Denkalaz

Quote:


> Anyone uses or knows about this headset?
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.com/a50/a50-wireless-system


I bought them when they released and i love them. I honestly cant tell you how they compare to others but they sound amazing to me but thats upgrading from generic headphones so thats probably not a good thing to base it off of. Anyway, I am very satisfied with my purchase.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The Vmoda's won't press against your head as hard, but they won't sound as good. I don't know how the Vmodas do in gaming, but I don't expect them to be good.
> Not worth it to get the MMX300s if you have DT770s.
> I assume you've tried stretching your DT770s over your PC case or something already.
> 598s will be the opposite of what the DT770s are.


Well yea i didn't expect Vmodas to be that good in gaming since is more bass so i plan to get a gaming headphones apart
Are the Vmodas V-80 open or closed?

Okey so as for the ones i like best goes atleast i go V-moda over MMX300 then (and use it as music)
Now i just need a good gaming headphones for offline gaming...maybe Audio technica AD700 ...

Yea for many months now i always stretch the headphones over my HAF-X case when not using them
maybe i just have to big head lol but DT770 is good is just painful after 1 hour use

Okey so.....is 598 better for games or for music?

I see V-modas ship to europe but it be expensive (UPS ... i always go courrier)
and i probaly have to pay a custum fee too....


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Denkalaz*
> 
> I bought them when they released and i love them. I honestly cant tell you how they compare to others but they sound amazing to me but thats upgrading from generic headphones so thats probably not a good thing to base it off of. Anyway, I am very satisfied with my purchase.


Looks good atleast never tried Astro
anyone know where A50 stand on OCN list?

Okey...at first i was concerned it was just another Overpriced Gaming headset
but then i see they even worked for Alienware pcs
http://www.astrostudios.com/projects/view/gaming-pcs/

So they must be reliable and good....
whetever they as good as Hifi headset those that can be used by gamers...i dont know yet

Maybe i should keep Astro A50 in mind then

V-moda V-80+Astro A50+Audio technica AD700+Beyerdynamic 770 Pro (one i use now) = Perfection?









Anywhere i can buy Astro A50 in Europe please?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Denkalaz*
> 
> I bought them when they released and i love them. I honestly cant tell you how they compare to others but they sound amazing to me but thats upgrading from generic headphones so thats probably not a good thing to base it off of. Anyway, I am very satisfied with my purchase.


Thanks

I will keep this in mind. This or the A40 model

Question to you. Can you connect this headset to a soundcard with a 3.5mm jack? Or is this headset a USB only headset.

I really want to take advantage of my Creative soundcard with my next headset or headphone purchase. Thats why I am asking.

Thank you.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> Looks good atleast never tried Astro
> anyone know where A50 stand on OCN list?
> Okey...at first i was concerned it was just another Overpriced Gaming headset
> but then i see they even worked for Alienware pcs
> http://www.astrostudios.com/projects/view/gaming-pcs/
> So they must be reliable and good....
> whetever they as good as Hifi headset those that can be used by gamers...i dont know yet
> Maybe i should keep Astro A50 in mind then
> V-moda V-80+Astro A50+Audio technica AD700+Beyerdynamic 770 Pro (one i use now) = Perfection?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anywhere i can buy Astro A50 in Europe please?


http://www.astrogaming.co.uk/a50-wireless-system

This is the UK site that sells it

http://www.astrogaming.fr/a50-wireless-system

and this is the french.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.co.uk/a50-wireless-system
> 
> This is the UK site that sells it
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.fr/a50-wireless-system
> 
> and this is the french.


Thanks, Who of those is best to order from Spain?

Update: Seem the UK has a good shipping option to spain
in euro it cost about 315 euro with shipping, must be extremely good for that price


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Isn't Astro A50 USB powered, with my Asus Xonar Essence soundcard would i still be best off with A50 considering USB power headset has their own amp not using the audiocard?

Woudn't i benifit more from a non-usb powered Headset?

From wikipedia about Astro
" Astro Gaming was acquired by Skullcandy in 2011"

Skullcandy= Cheap poor-quality headset

But maybe Astro is the only Bright star in Skullcandy backyard
but can raise concern for the future quality Astro products...maybe?


----------



## iARDAs

That's what I am wondering.

I want a headset that will utilize my soundcard.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

But look at this amazing A50 Red design
any idea how i can buy this?
I can't find the red version on Astrogaming website



Update: Is A40 Wireless BXR version

Anyone know how A40 bXR wireless quality is compared to A50?
is a little bit cheaper and the red is nice


----------



## johnnyxbl4ze

Guys. I found an old pair of sennheiser hd 580 that belonged to my dad and I forgot about them.

I'm kind of new to soundcard/amp for computer. They sound great just coming out of my computer right now but do I need a new soundcard or what can I do to make the best use of these headphones?

Mostly used for music, not gaming.

Thanks for any help


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnnyxbl4ze*
> 
> Guys. I found an old pair of sennheiser hd 580 that belonged to my dad and I forgot about them.
> 
> I'm kind of new to soundcard/amp for computer. They sound great just coming out of my computer right now but do I need a new soundcard or what can I do to make the best use of these headphones?
> 
> Mostly used for music, not gaming.
> 
> Thanks for any help


No budget, no help. You need a sound card to make the most use of those headphones. Read thread for those in your price range.

Xonar DG for under 50. Xonar DX/HT Omega Striker for 50-100. Titanium HD for 100-149. External DAC thereafter.

Also please stop posting about Astro gaming headsets in this thread. They're not recommended and I'd rather you not persuade anyone otherwise in this thread. Create a new one if you care to discuss them.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Ok since Astro is not recomended here they must be some of the same overpriced-hyped-gaming usb-stuff that we with Audiophile Soundcard should stay clear off from.

So back to where i started Need a good headphones for gaming shooters,rpg...offline mostly
to remplace Beyerdynamic 770 Pro that dont give that much presure

I been thinking a while about AD700 every gamers almost love them
but the Purple design is a bit strange as i prefer Dark colors on my Pc desk
but i could get used to it.

I need something Futuristic and stylish
For music i might as well go for V-moda is great for Dance and pop
but for gaming...I need an extra pair of headphones..
Where Booms of explosion are like in a Deep studio sound, no distortion, not too closed, not much presure...great quality sound...pricewise not too expensive...

Something cheaper than Astro in price maybe
The recomended list is great but is so much to choose from is not easy

On other side...the good things with gaming headset (just for gaming)
is i can use it both on Pc and Game consoles that is for me a plus....
If i also can use it on TV for movies even better.

But i am also a person that highly apreciate Quality for example on the street
i never Always listen to quality Headphones from Koss,Senneheiser etc..

Now i just have to find some for indoor use....

Btw, My Beyers 770 Pro is not bad at all....only thing i dont like is they too tight on my ears because of my big head , and that they are too closed....
I Don't like so much that all air is voided from my ears while headphones is pressing on my head.....

Sometimes on a good quality movie or so...yea....but not for extended use
If i am using sound for many hours on evning,night when i cant use my speakers i need the headphones to be comphy.

One thing I highly apreciate if the headset are a bit expensive
they should have Detachable Wire
That way i can easy swap the wire if it breaks.
in fact all Home Headphones should have this.


----------



## bigal1542

Some easy questions regarding the Denon D2000s that I can't find:

Do they need an amp?

How does the bass compare to A900s?

How does the comfort compare to A900s? (I got a big head)

They are discontinued on the Denon website. Are they going to make something to replace them?

Thanks!


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Umm, read the post. =D

Already posted this but waited a bit.

I need a good set of speakers, computer speakers, just to set on the desk. I plan on using my Noontec Zoro Headphones the most, but would like to have pretty good speakers for such things as Youtube or something. Anyhow, I was considering doing the Dayton/Lepai/ Speaker Wire to 3.5 mm adapter, never done anything like that. So I would probably mess it up.

Is there any decent speakers around the $50.00 besides the Creatives that was listed? Was hoping on using Newegg to find the speakers.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Just noticed a bit of popping when I adjust the volume on my computer. I never noticed it before, but I don't think it's new. Definitely from the sound card.

Edit: Now it's not. Wierd.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigal1542*
> 
> Some easy questions regarding the Denon D2000s that I can't find:
> 
> Do they need an amp?
> 
> How does the bass compare to A900s?
> 
> How does the comfort compare to A900s? (I got a big head)
> 
> They are discontinued on the Denon website. Are they going to make something to replace them?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes

Much stronger.

They're very comfortable, but heavier than the A900s.

Yes, but at a much steeper price point.


----------



## bigal1542

Thanks Simca!


----------



## MAD-DUKE

So whats a better speaker?

Infinity Primus P163
or
Polk Audio RTi6 High Performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker


----------



## Simca

P163's without a doubt.


----------



## MAD-DUKE

hmm... Damn

So would you think its worth 15$ more to get the P163 per speaker?


----------



## lb_felipe

Which is better for the same price, Dayton DTA-100a or Topping TP22?


----------



## Davidsen

How well does Edifier AMPLIFY C2 2.1 perform with music and gaming? Thinking of buying those along with Asus Xonar DX.

http://www.proshop.dk/Hoejttaler/Edifier-AMPLIFY-C2-2.1-speakers-og-amplifier-2281439.html

Site's in danish.


----------



## Lifeshield

Well in my search for a nice pair of headphones I thought I'd update everyone with my final choice and my thoughts on the pair I purchased.

Shopped around and shopped around some more. Tried lots of pairs, Sennheiser 598's, Beats Mixr's, XB300's, Audio Technica's, but the one pair that really stood out was a pair of AKG k450's. It was really a choice between these and the Beats Mixr's, the only two headphones that actually sounded how I wanted them to (I thought the Beats Mixr's sounded pretty good in comparison to the other Beats headphones I tried which were muddy and drowned out mids and highs with their bass, and better than alot of the Sennheisers I tried also with them producing a louder sound, including the 598's). WIth the Beats costing £219 and the AKG costing just £43 the choice was a simple one. I even compared the AKG's to a pair of AKGs that were £100 and these still sounded better (just).

They are fairly small but well built, comfortable, and with well driven bass for such a small, and relatively cheap, pair of headphones. They block noise out well and also play pretty loud without any issue from all sources I tried them on. They have a detachable cord, and come with their own hard carry case, along with a spare cord, and adaptor (all gold plated).

Absolutely excellent value for money. I'd reccommend them to anyone looking for a good pair of headphones on a budget. Fantastic buy.


----------



## Manooloo

How does the Superlux HD669 compare to the HD668B?


----------



## Denkalaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> I will keep this in mind. This or the A40 model
> 
> Question to you. Can you connect this headset to a soundcard with a 3.5mm jack? Or is this headset a USB only headset.
> 
> I really want to take advantage of my Creative soundcard with my next headset or headphone purchase. Thats why I am asking.
> 
> Thank you.


no but usb is only used to power the mixamp and to send the microphone input through.
it gets the audio signal from a toslink optical cable.
so if your soundcard has an optical out than you could use it.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Guys i think for now i will get the Audio technica ATH-AD700 (Which also is ocn recomended) I can get them for as low as 128 Euro (9 euro shipping)
which is the lowest i seen them for, and as a gift a headphone stand included
(No custum taxes for me and short way shipping so low price)

I have a bunch of headphones on my future buying list so i could as well start with the AD700..

I guess the Wires on Ad700 is not detachable ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

not detachable.


----------



## adridu59

Is the AKG K240 any good ?
I found good reviews on the internet but nothing particular on OCN. I'm looking at the K240 Studio (not the MkII), which would replace my broken AD700s.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Simca

Good headphones and there's pretty much no difference between the Studios and the MK2 besides accessories.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> not detachable.


Yea seem they not but anyway for that price 128 euro i guess is fine still....
I been comparing AT Ad700 to sennheiser HD598 i always wanted to get a pair of theese...but after reading about the Crack issue HD598 is having (or had) this concern me so much i might drop buying HD598 ever
there is a thread about it here http://www.head-fi.org/t/534963/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack

I mean if you pay like 170 euro or more for theese I wont be happy if theese crack in 2 months or some more
and from normal wear..... is a pity as they looked very nice

So as Sennheiser goes i believe HD558 is better (And cheaper even) than HD598
But i am not sure if HD558 has a removabe cable?

BTW, Do someone know if Klipsch M40 is worth it?
Is early morning and still sleepy but i can't seem to find it on the OCN recomended list, maybe they havent been considered yet?
http://www.klipsch.com/klipsch-mode-noise-canceling-headphones

The price seem expensive they tend to be 300 euro+
however i can get them for 270 euro
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/24/klipsch-mode-m40-noise-cancelling-headphones-review/

But i cant still understand why they need a battery?
seem this ones can be used both indoor and outdoor?

A bit heavy....still not sure if i want the noise canceling part
but if they sound excelent and i like the design ...maybe

Are they recomended for that price?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Also please stop posting about Astro gaming headsets in this thread. They're not recommended and I'd rather you not persuade anyone otherwise in this thread. Create a new one if you care to discuss them.


If you say no Astro gaming than I will listen to it as your knowledge is more than me, and i already got my creative xfi titanium and AKG headset thanks to your advice. However could you please tell me why you dont like the Astro headset. I know other interested people in this brand but I would really like to tell them to stay away but I should give them a reason. Is it a poor combination of mics and headphones?

Also since you dont like Astro, than I am sure i should also stay away from Asus Vulcan too.

Again, I will listen to the advice.

I will probably go with a Ultrasone P550 now. Could you or someone also point out a top class microphone so I can bundle it? I just want a great microphone that will concentrate on my voice and not the keyboard sound.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

I think is because Astro is a bit overpriced and you get better bang for your money since there are other choices....maybe

Oh and AKG seem a good option havent consider it are AKG headphones very good?
AKG GHS1 seem like a good option for only gaming (with its mic) and probaly better than other gaming headphones, are you still happy with the purchase?

AKG GHS1 seem even to be a better option over AT AD700 (because the downside with AT is weak wires...the only AT headphones i had but not AD700 broke in 2 months , the wire broke)

I can get AKG GHS1 for price off 75 Euro only now
AKGQ 701 Also seem good but dont have a mic (not nesesary )

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/big/AKGQ701.jpg

Any input on AKGQ 701 except for the higher price?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> I think is because Astro is a bit overpriced and you get better bang for your money since there are other choices....maybe
> Oh and AKG seem a good option havent consider it are AKG headphones very good?
> AKG GHS1 seem like a good option for only gaming (with its mic) and probaly better than other gaming headphones, are you still happy with the purchase?
> AKG GHS1 seem even to be a better option over AT AD700 (because the downside with AT is weak wires...the only AT headphones i had but not AD700 broke in 2 months , the wire broke)
> I can get AKG GHS1 for price off 75 Euro only now
> AKGQ 701 Also seem good but dont have a mic (not nesesary )
> http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/images/uploads/big/AKGQ701.jpg
> Any input on AKGQ 701 except for the higher price?


to be honest i am happy with my AKG GHS1. It IS a good headset for the price, but the mic quality is not great. I mean it is good but the mic picks up even the keystrokers when I type which sux. If you get this headset, all your communications should be PUSH TO TALK only, otherwise the other parties in the conversation including yourself may be disturbed.

Other than that it is a good headset. I just want to upgrrade for something better thats it.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

I am also upgrading to something better (better in sense i need something that dont clamp my head and not closed can so i dont get scared out of the chair when someone walk behind me)

The headphones i have now quite good Beyerdynamic DT770 pro 80ohms with a Zalman and sony clip on mic
I guess the AKG Q 701 would be very good too but i have never tried AKG

if buildt in mic needed there is also Beyer MMX300 but i dont think that mic is that good
and yea then there is Astra but for that price i rather go Vmoda V80 or AKG Q701 or even ATH-AD700 with a mic on

I am still to decide what Headphone to get to use together with my DT770pro (That from now mostly will be used for action-movies and bassmusic)
But right now i am more inclining to AKG Q701 or the Vmoda V80


----------



## Gilgamesh9

I see Sennheiser HD600 on sale for just 280 euro is that a very good deal?
and excelent headphones?


----------



## Simca

Keep looking, overpriced, especially for the eurozone. Sennheisers are cheaper in Germany. Look for them used/refurbed for ~180 euros. A good new price to buy them would be ~240 euros.

Make sure you KNOW why you want HD600s. Many people DO NOT LIKE the neutral sound of the HD600s. It's very good for specific genres, but not great for many others and they're not great value for gaming headphones either and not that good gaming period. Many other options I'd take over the HD600s for the price.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> First thanks to HybridCore i found this brilliant post
> I am going to do upgrades soon my speakers and maybe headphones
> 
> From before I have Harman soundstick 3 speakers and Beyerdynamic 770 Pro 80ohms Headphones
> My Pc has Asus Xonar Essence Soundcard
> 
> I Music i mostly listen too isPop,bass,trance,dance, and gaming (crysis2, Mass efect, Metro 2033 ... offline gaming
> I need headphones for night use as i live in 4th floor in building
> 
> Now my questions
> 
> 1. What is the best upgrade to Harman soundstick 3 for like 250-300 euro apx...
> 
> 2. I liked the Swan M50W but where do i buy this in Europe?
> 
> 3. Where can i buy a similar speaker stand without having to make them myself?
> http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/1072471-project-ikea-speaker-stand.html
> 
> 4. My Beyerdynamic 770 Pro give me good sound but they so much presure on the ear
> i even tried streched them over months without luck
> 
> So should i get some of theese?
> 
> Sennheiser HD598 (for good sound and design)
> Superlux 668B (mostly for gaming as a extra pair since is cheap)
> Audio technica AD700 for Gaming (is it worth it for Crysis2 or Mass efect if only playing Offline?)
> 
> 5. Or should i get
> 
> Beyerdynamic MMX300 personalized
> *snip*
> 
> Are these worth to buy if i already has 770 Pro mostly because of the buildt in low-quality mic and the design
> (i mostly wanted to buy these for the personalized color design)
> But MMX 300 will press on ear hard as 770 pro does?
> 
> 6. Or should i just forget the above and go for a V-moda V-80 true blood
> it look so amazing can use it for music then get a Audiotechnica AD700 for gaming
> 
> Thanks to this fantastic post i discovered V-80 and i like it
> 
> *snip*
> 
> I never used V-moda headphones so i have to ask
> Do they sound more similar to sennheiser bass or beyerdynamic 770?
> 
> Do they not press on the head like 770 do?
> 
> Can the wire be detached on V-80 true blood?
> 
> Is it possible to buy a Plush earpad version instead of leather pad?
> thats my only concern of V-80 i am mostly used to plush (like on 770 Pro) not leather
> unless the leather is extremly soft
> 
> Will V-80 still be something good for me?
> i realy like the design, if it sound great and is comfortable then perfect
> 
> Where can i buy V-moda in Europe?


I don't remember exactly what happened and how I helped you but you're welcome.

1. Assuming that you're going to need powered speakers (you need a separate amplifier to drive a passive one which will cost extra), something inexpensive should do. I haven't looked at speakers for awhile, but the Audioengine A2 and A5 are rather popular, and so are the Klipsch Promedia 2.1. The Swan M50W are great too.

2. Can't answer.

3. I don't know too much about where to find certain speaker stand, but you'll probably have to make it yourself. It isn't too hard to be honest.

4. Most of the things you do are usually centered around a strong bass and lower mids (assuming you listen to American pop. Asian pop is a completely different story. American pop might cover a bit of the center and upper mids, but not as much as Asian pop). For gaming you'll want a good soundstage. I don't know what your budget is exactly. I did read through most of the posts you made and the prices of the headphones are all over the place.

5. It's Beyerdynamic, so probably, and I wouldn't expect any better sound from that headset. The MMX 300 looks like a DT770 with a microphone slapped onto it to me. If it isn't a DT770, you'll probably be getting a headphone of lesser quality.

6. V-Moda V-80's aren't necessarily meant for gaming. They're supra-aural (on-ear) portable headphones meant for travel/commute. They might hurt after awhile. It's typical of supra-aural. Supposedly they're just the M-80's with a True Blood branding and such. It's also a more bass heavy headphone, so I'd imagine that it has this warm sound. It does seem to have a decent sound stage. Weight wise, I'd imagine them to be heavier than other headphones with the use of some metal on the enclosure itself.

If anything, you probably won't want an open aired neutral headphone like the K701/K702/Q701, HD600, HD650/ etc.

I haven't done too much research in headphones nowadays, but the K550 might be good. It's essentially a closed K701/K702 so it has more bass. The other choice is the AH-D2000. If you want the AH-D2000, you might want to get one soon because it's being replaced by one of their newer headphones (AH-D600 for the AH-D2000 and AH-D5000 I believe and the AH-D7100 for the AH-D7000).


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Any thoughts about the Xonar Phoebus?
> Still not sure what my audi setup's going to be, and I'm considering this. I will do gaming, but I will also do music (sometimes alone, sometimes while doing Photoshop) and a tiny bit of vid editing.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for bringing the card up. I had JUST gotten the chance to try out the Phoebus on Sunday (yesterday) at a friends house. The reason I had waited so long to try it out is because none of my friends bought it until now and I definitely wasn't trying to buy it.
> 
> Here are our thoughts on the card. It's not at all an upgrade from an STX. It's an alternative to the STX. We agree that it's in no way superior to the STX sound quality wise. In fact it's most likely inferior to the STX in sound quality. The amp section on the Phoebus and the STX are seemingly EXACTLY the same. Almost no difference there. As far as gaming goes, it's better than an STX.....when it works..The Phoebus has a lot of issues with games at the moment. I'm pretty sure that's a driver issue and I haven't tried it with any other drivers like Unified drivers or anything. After some light research, we were able to find that A LOT of people are having issues with the Pheobus in games.
> 
> Assuming this problem is fixed eventually, the Phoebus will be a more gamer geared card than the STX...
> 
> But I will never recommend this card as an alternative to the STX.
> 
> First off, this card is 200 dollars. 2nd, it's inferior to the STX in sound quality. Third, the amp section is exactly the same as the current STX. Fourth, the card has issues with some games. Fifth, if you really wanted a sound card for gaming, you wouldn't bother with this card because you would buy the Titanium HD for much cheaper.
> 
> I was so disappointed that I wanted to come on OCN and type about it, but by the time I got home, I had forgotten about it because of how uninterested I was in it.
> 
> I also had the chance to review the creative Recon 3D (80 dollar one, not the 200 dollar one).
> 
> From what I hear there is no difference between the 80 dollar version and the 200 dollar version other than the shield.
> 
> That said, as far as SQ goes the Recon 3D is.....not good. I'd say there was almost no difference between on board and the Recon 3D. You could just barely pick apart the slight bump in clarity over on board. Don't get this card for music. Don't even think about it.
> 
> The mids and highs were WAY too high and harsh for a sound card. In that respect I prefer on board over this card. The card comes with a built in amp which I didn't even use so I won't comment on it, but I'm thinking it's crap.
> 
> The quad core crap that's supposed to be all ooo and wow was ...well, useless. I have no idea what it did.
> 
> Now, I'll be fair and say that as far as positioning goes...it did well. I think that the bumped up mids and highs attributed to it's "goodness" in gaming, but the overall card's performance in multiple games was enough to warrant a nod in the gaming department. As far as "Scout" mode goes..I'm not really a fan. It's good in some games and useless in others. Scout mode is supposed to make certain sounds pop out more than others like footsteps. Yeah..I noticed it working in some games, but others I heard no difference. It's completely game dependent. Comparing the Recon 3D to the Titanium HD as far as gaming goes...the Recon3D.......is....better....than the TiHD.. What I mean to say is that the surround sound feeling was more natural and overall better than the TiHD, but the TiHD makes up for it by having crisper, clearer sounds and...awkwardly because the freakin' card has a quad-core chip...I feel the TiHD handled more complex sounds better than the Recon3D.
> 
> What the flip is the purpose of a quad core sound card if it's not even helping process sounds?
> 
> Again, I have no idea what the quad core chip thing did, but it wasn't at all noticeable. I figured it would at least take complex sounds and make them sound marvelous. It didn't even do that. IMO, the Recon 3D is worth..no more than 50 dollars. I would only ever think about using it for gaming. I would never listen to this sound card for music.
> 
> OH, another thing I forgot to mention about this card is it has NO DYNAMIC RANGE WHATSOEVER. Drops in music are unheard of. This card offers no dynamic range. Everything is loud all the time.
> 
> Anyway..I can't recommend either of these cards and for that reason they're not going to be added to the list. I'll link this post on the first page for all those that want to know what the Phoebus and Recon3D sound like.
> 
> Needless to say, both of these cards were returned. The Phoebus has too many issues in games, the Recon3D sucks too much to warrant keeping SQ wise.
> 
> On the plus side, the software and drivers on the Recon3D are fabulous.
> 
> See, I said something nice about it?
Click to expand...

So did you ever try out the Pro version? It's supposed to be more than just a PCB shield.


----------



## Gilgamesh9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> If anything, you probably won't want an open aired neutral headphone like the K701/K702/Q701, HD600, HD650/ etc.
> I haven't done too much research in headphones nowadays, but the K550 might be good. It's essentially a closed K701/K702 so it has more bass. The other choice is the AH-D2000. If you want the AH-D2000, you might want to get one soon because it's being replaced by one of their newer headphones (AH-D600 for the AH-D2000 and AH-D5000 I believe and the AH-D7100 for the AH-D7000).


Actualy I want an Open headphone for some reasons
i already has closed headphones for other purposes

I am between HD598 and HD600 now
I spent the whole day trying to find Denon D2000 but no luck is already discontinued in Europe and Usa
2000,5000,7000 is being discontinued, but they all live on in Japan
The new Non-Japan Denon headphones look Ugly and i dont want them Denon is realy shooting themself in the foot now by removing the famous 2000,5000,7000 line


----------



## Gilgamesh9

I also need some Bassy Street headphones for Pop and Trance
want Detachable Cables so i can get around the 6 months headphone cable break period

Is this my best Option?
http://www.smsby50.com/collections/wired/products/street-wired-headphone-over-ear-black
http://www.smsby50.com/collections/earbuds

Are theese quality recomended?
Or should i be looking for some other Detachable ones?

Probaly some of you also had problems with street headphone cable breaking and already went for this solution


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> So did you ever try out the Pro version? It's supposed to be more than just a PCB shield.


Take that back. Read a few more reviews and even if it adds more **** the sound quality is dull in some areas and too sharp in others to be balanced enough to enjoy. Scout mode is ... off to say the least.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> If anything, you probably won't want an open aired neutral headphone like the K701/K702/Q701, HD600, HD650/ etc.
> I haven't done too much research in headphones nowadays, but the K550 might be good. It's essentially a closed K701/K702 so it has more bass. The other choice is the AH-D2000. If you want the AH-D2000, you might want to get one soon because it's being replaced by one of their newer headphones (AH-D600 for the AH-D2000 and AH-D5000 I believe and the AH-D7100 for the AH-D7000).
> 
> 
> 
> Actualy I want an Open headphone for some reasons
> i already has closed headphones for other purposes
> 
> I am between HD598 and HD600 now
> I spent the whole day trying to find Denon D2000 but no luck is already discontinued in Europe and Usa
> 2000,5000,7000 is being discontinued, but they all live on in Japan
> The new Non-Japan Denon headphones look Ugly and i dont want them Denon is realy shooting themself in the foot now by removing the famous 2000,5000,7000 line
Click to expand...

Okay. Well, the Q701 seems to be recommended the most over at Head-Fi compared to the K701 and K702. It costs less than the HD600 and HD650 (You can get it for $240 for black and green, $260 for white. I just checked). The O2 (Objective2) headphone amp has great synergy (I'm going to assume the upcoming ODA next year will too) with the HD600, HD650, Q701, etc. It works well with most headphones. I believe the only ways you can get it in America is from either JDS Labs, ordering the parts yourself, or (I don't know why you would do this) import it. It costs $144 at JDS labs. You could get it in a combo with the ODAC for $285, although you'll need to spend a few dollars to get a power adapter. The other choice is to buy those two separate which costs a bit more. Normally the O2 can run on batteries (you'll want rechargeable batteries so you can just get a wall plug-in power adapter so you can charge them) but the ODAC takes up that space when inside.

Okay, then. The O2 still pairs well with those two if you feel like getting an external amp. Just a heads up.
Yeah. Unfortunately they look horrible to most people. If they sound good enough, people might be able to disregard the looks, but it's definitely something you don't want to wear into public unless you like the design and aren't afraid of being judged.
You can usually get them imported. I heard the AH-D2000, AH-D5000, and AH-D7000 in Japan. I've never heard a good headphone until then (they were properly amped though. It was a Beyerdynamic A1 I believe, or the H1) and I felt the soundstage was a bit small to my liking because it sounded like I was in a small box, but that might just have been the recording. It doesn't have that sort of limitless soundstage that open headphones can usually have.

It's possible to do a quick, easy mod on the HD558 to it sounds close to the HD598. The HD600 and HD650 and up bring it to a whole new level though.

If you can find a nice HD580 for a good price and find some HD600 or HD650 grills somewhere, you can replace the grills on the HD580 and get the same sound as the HD600. They've been discontinued for a long time though. Anyways, 2 links. Impressions are all subjective and will vary from person to person.

http://www.headfonia.com/hd600-and-hd598-comparison/

http://www.headfonia.com/the-sennheiser-trio-hd580-hd600-hd650/3/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> I also need some Bassy Street headphones for Pop and Trance
> want Detachable Cables so i can get around the 6 months headphone cable break period
> 
> Is this my best Option?
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/wired/products/street-wired-headphone-over-ear-black
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/earbuds
> 
> Are theese quality recomended?
> Or should i be looking for some other Detachable ones?
> 
> Probaly some of you also had problems with street headphone cable breaking and already went for this solution


Definitely not. The Ultimate Ears 350 will do fine. The other choice is to head over to Head-Fi and look at the budget headphones. The Koss ProDJ 100 are rather popular. The new JVC HA-S500 seems to be rather popular too. The AIAIAI TMA-1 seems like a viable choice. Just beware, the upper mids and highs aren't that strong and you'll want to EQ it if you want some slightly better sounding highs.


----------



## Neo Zuko

All my cool audio stuff is in my signature rig.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> All my cool audio stuff is in my signature rig.


Big Avatar fan I see. Korra was a nice series, although I preferred the Last Air Bender, but that's all personal preference.

I see you have some Westones. I have to admit I'm jealous because I don't even have anything.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> If anything, you probably won't want an open aired neutral headphone like the K701/K702/Q701, HD600, HD650/ etc.
> I haven't done too much research in headphones nowadays, but the K550 might be good. It's essentially a closed K701/K702 so it has more bass. The other choice is the AH-D2000. If you want the AH-D2000, you might want to get one soon because it's being replaced by one of their newer headphones (AH-D600 for the AH-D2000 and AH-D5000 I believe and the AH-D7100 for the AH-D7000).
> 
> 
> 
> Actualy I want an Open headphone for some reasons
> i already has closed headphones for other purposes
> 
> I am between HD598 and HD600 now
> I spent the whole day trying to find Denon D2000 but no luck is already discontinued in Europe and Usa
> 2000,5000,7000 is being discontinued, but they all live on in Japan
> The new Non-Japan Denon headphones look Ugly and i dont want them Denon is realy shooting themself in the foot now by removing the famous 2000,5000,7000 line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay. Well, the Q701 seems to be recommended the most over at Head-Fi compared to the K701 and K702. It costs less than the HD600 and HD650 (You can get it for $240 for black and green, $260 for white. I just checked). The O2 (Objective2) headphone amp has great synergy (I'm going to assume the upcoming ODA next year will too) with the HD600, HD650, Q701, etc. It works well with most headphones. I believe the only ways you can get it in America is from either JDS Labs, ordering the parts yourself, or (I don't know why you would do this) import it. It costs $144 at JDS labs. You could get it in a combo with the ODAC for $285, although you'll need to spend a few dollars to get a power adapter. The other choice is to buy those two separate which costs a bit more. Normally the O2 can run on batteries (you'll want rechargeable batteries so you can just get a wall plug-in power adapter so you can charge them) but the ODAC takes up that space when inside.
> 
> Okay, then. The O2 still pairs well with those two if you feel like getting an external amp. Just a heads up.
> Yeah. Unfortunately they look horrible to most people. If they sound good enough, people might be able to disregard the looks, but it's definitely something you don't want to wear into public unless you like the design and aren't afraid of being judged.
> You can usually get them imported. I heard the AH-D2000, AH-D5000, and AH-D7000 in Japan. I've never heard a good headphone until then (they were properly amped though. It was a Beyerdynamic A1 I believe, or the H1) and I felt the soundstage was a bit small to my liking because it sounded like I was in a small box, but that might just have been the recording. It doesn't have that sort of limitless soundstage that open headphones can usually have.
> 
> It's possible to do a quick, easy mod on the HD558 to it sounds close to the HD598. The HD600 and HD650 and up bring it to a whole new level though.
> 
> If you can find a nice HD580 for a good price and find some HD600 or HD650 grills somewhere, you can replace the grills on the HD580 and get the same sound as the HD600. They've been discontinued for a long time though. Anyways, 2 links. Impressions are all subjective and will vary from person to person.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/hd600-and-hd598-comparison/
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/the-sennheiser-trio-hd580-hd600-hd650/3/
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> I also need some Bassy Street headphones for Pop and Trance
> want Detachable Cables so i can get around the 6 months headphone cable break period
> 
> Is this my best Option?
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/wired/products/street-wired-headphone-over-ear-black
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/earbuds
> 
> Are theese quality recomended?
> Or should i be looking for some other Detachable ones?
> 
> Probaly some of you also had problems with street headphone cable breaking and already went for this solution
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely not. The Ultimate Ears 350 will do fine. The other choice is to head over to Head-Fi and look at the budget headphones. TheKoss ProDJ 100 are rather popular. The new JVC HA-S500 seems to be rather popular too. The AIAIAI TMA-1 seems like a viable choice. Just beware, the upper mids and highs aren't that strong and you'll want to EQ it if you want some slightly better sounding highs.
Click to expand...

I own the Q701 and the O2, sound amazing together and on xbox ps3 with the mix amp. About to buy either the D7000 if money affords it or the K550 and am getting a Titanium HD SC.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> If anything, you probably won't want an open aired neutral headphone like the K701/K702/Q701, HD600, HD650/ etc.
> I haven't done too much research in headphones nowadays, but the K550 might be good. It's essentially a closed K701/K702 so it has more bass. The other choice is the AH-D2000. If you want the AH-D2000, you might want to get one soon because it's being replaced by one of their newer headphones (AH-D600 for the AH-D2000 and AH-D5000 I believe and the AH-D7100 for the AH-D7000).
> 
> 
> 
> Actualy I want an Open headphone for some reasons
> i already has closed headphones for other purposes
> 
> I am between HD598 and HD600 now
> I spent the whole day trying to find Denon D2000 but no luck is already discontinued in Europe and Usa
> 2000,5000,7000 is being discontinued, but they all live on in Japan
> The new Non-Japan Denon headphones look Ugly and i dont want them Denon is realy shooting themself in the foot now by removing the famous 2000,5000,7000 line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay. Well, the Q701 seems to be recommended the most over at Head-Fi compared to the K701 and K702. It costs less than the HD600 and HD650 (You can get it for $240 for black and green, $260 for white. I just checked). The O2 (Objective2) headphone amp has great synergy (I'm going to assume the upcoming ODA next year will too) with the HD600, HD650, Q701, etc. It works well with most headphones. I believe the only ways you can get it in America is from either JDS Labs, ordering the parts yourself, or (I don't know why you would do this) import it. It costs $144 at JDS labs. You could get it in a combo with the ODAC for $285, although you'll need to spend a few dollars to get a power adapter. The other choice is to buy those two separate which costs a bit more. Normally the O2 can run on batteries (you'll want rechargeable batteries so you can just get a wall plug-in power adapter so you can charge them) but the ODAC takes up that space when inside.
> 
> Okay, then. The O2 still pairs well with those two if you feel like getting an external amp. Just a heads up.
> Yeah. Unfortunately they look horrible to most people. If they sound good enough, people might be able to disregard the looks, but it's definitely something you don't want to wear into public unless you like the design and aren't afraid of being judged.
> You can usually get them imported. I heard the AH-D2000, AH-D5000, and AH-D7000 in Japan. I've never heard a good headphone until then (they were properly amped though. It was a Beyerdynamic A1 I believe, or the H1) and I felt the soundstage was a bit small to my liking because it sounded like I was in a small box, but that might just have been the recording. It doesn't have that sort of limitless soundstage that open headphones can usually have.
> 
> It's possible to do a quick, easy mod on the HD558 to it sounds close to the HD598. The HD600 and HD650 and up bring it to a whole new level though.
> 
> If you can find a nice HD580 for a good price and find some HD600 or HD650 grills somewhere, you can replace the grills on the HD580 and get the same sound as the HD600. They've been discontinued for a long time though. Anyways, 2 links. Impressions are all subjective and will vary from person to person.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/hd600-and-hd598-comparison/
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/the-sennheiser-trio-hd580-hd600-hd650/3/
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gilgamesh9*
> 
> I also need some Bassy Street headphones for Pop and Trance
> want Detachable Cables so i can get around the 6 months headphone cable break period
> 
> Is this my best Option?
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/wired/products/street-wired-headphone-over-ear-black
> http://www.smsby50.com/collections/earbuds
> 
> Are theese quality recomended?
> Or should i be looking for some other Detachable ones?
> 
> Probaly some of you also had problems with street headphone cable breaking and already went for this solution
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely not. The Ultimate Ears 350 will do fine. The other choice is to head over to Head-Fi and look at the budget headphones. TheKoss ProDJ 100 are rather popular. The new JVC HA-S500 seems to be rather popular too. The AIAIAI TMA-1 seems like a viable choice. Just beware, the upper mids and highs aren't that strong and you'll want to EQ it if you want some slightly better sounding highs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I own the Q701 and the O2, sound amazing together and on xbox ps3 with the mix amp. About to buy either the D7000 if money affords it or the K550 and am getting a Titanium HD SC.
Click to expand...

The K550 is essentially a closed K701/K702/Q701 (Q701 sounds different because of enclosure and driver materials I believe and some other small things. Nobody really found it. It's said the driver is the same but some people are saying things about an aluminum voice coil in the Q701 driver instead of a copper one or something). It's sound stage will probably be slightly smaller and the highs and upper mids slightly weaker but it'll have more bass and lower midrange. I have a friend over at Head-Fi who has a pair (and another who got the Q701 for about $70...).

I've still yet to get myself a setup. I have $1500, $500 for audio and $1000 for my first build (I promised myself to build a computer 2 years ago when I got into the world of geeks and I still haven't built one...the best I did was help a friend build one and rebuild 3 ancient prebuilts). I listen to Asian pop and Vocaloid the most so I was focusing on looking for a headphone with a good soundstage and strong highs and upper mids and it seems the Q701 with an O2 and ODAC would be best for me. I've started getting into chip music though (actually, I think it mainly utilizes the higher frequencies) and was thinking I should get headphones that were more balanced because of the base line in some but decided against it. Still searching for headphones, but I'll probably stick with a Japanese brand (Audio-Technica, Denon, JVC, etc.) or stick with Austria. I was told Austria (AKG basically) has good relations with Japan or something of the like and AKG's headphones are good when it comes to Japanese music, or just Asian pop in general.


----------



## logicPwn

This thread helped me truckloads. Great post of condensed knowledge and experience.


----------



## Davidsen

Can anyone recommend 2.1 speakers that's good for both gaming and music?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davidsen*
> 
> Can anyone recommend 2.1 speakers that's good for both gaming and music?


Budget?

I don't expect something like the budgets of people over at Stereophile.







That's a lot of dough.


----------



## Davidsen

I think i changed my mind from wanting to buy "pre-assembled" speaker systems like the Z906, to buying each individual set, bookshelf speakers, sub and amplifier etc.

So, got a question.

Instead of buying a Dayton Audio DTA-100a, can i go with a receiver?

example: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-482

Parts im planning on ordering are a pair of Dayton Audio B652, Dayton Audio Sub-1200, and either the DTA-100a or a receiver.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> The K550 is essentially a closed K701/K702/Q701 (Q701 sounds different because of enclosure and driver materials I believe and some other small things. Nobody really found it. It's said the driver is the same but some people are saying things about an aluminum voice coil in the Q701 driver instead of a copper one or something). It's sound stage will probably be slightly smaller and the highs and upper mids slightly weaker but it'll have more bass and lower midrange. I have a friend over at Head-Fi who has a pair (and another who got the Q701 for about $70...).
> 
> I've still yet to get myself a setup. I have $1500, $500 for audio and $1000 for my first build (I promised myself to build a computer 2 years ago when I got into the world of geeks and I still haven't built one...the best I did was help a friend build one and rebuild 3 ancient prebuilts). I listen to Asian pop and Vocaloid the most so I was focusing on looking for a headphone with a good soundstage and strong highs and upper mids and it seems the Q701 with an O2 and ODAC would be best for me. I've started getting into chip music though (actually, I think it mainly utilizes the higher frequencies) and was thinking I should get headphones that were more balanced because of the base line in some but decided against it. Still searching for headphones, but I'll probably stick with a Japanese brand (Audio-Technica, Denon, JVC, etc.) or stick with Austria. I was told Austria (AKG basically) has good relations with Japan or something of the like and AKG's headphones are good when it comes to Japanese music, or just Asian pop in general.


I am familiar with what the K550 are but you cannot say they are the K701/Q701 with a closed backed. Even trying to compare the K701/Q701 is harder to do without saying virtually same sound stage with more bass and less positioning, still the same uncomfortable headband. From what I've been reading the K550 are the best isolated headphones around before we start talking bookoos of money. M50 used to be the best because the actually isolated where as the Denon claim to but they still leak. K550 have a wonderful soundstage so I've heard and one you get a proper fit they isolate sounds very well and it sounds that much cleaner. Recessed high trebs, great mids to low trebs, decent bass that can be felt rather than heard, and actual noise isolation. Beautiful design obviously with the cups allowing to be folded down when traveling. Durable, touch, though the cord isn't removable which I hate personally. Over all amazing for around 280-300 USD.

As for you I would question why you need an O2 and ODAC when using a sound card.. If you want music with great highs, rather the ability to hear it clearly and well. I'd say the K702 (like the 701 but cord detachable), O2 if you needed more amp but even still it's pricey IMO. Xonar STX or ST for less jitter and some decent open back cans? Used K702 run at 240 USD (used is better since they are burned in) Just change the pads to clean ones and profit or go new for 280USD, STX 170 USD, ST200 USD. There is your 500 dollar limit and it is all around your PC. O2 and ODAC is more of a portable listening experience and I find the O2 is too bulking to bring around unless you have a back pack but even then. (Source > O2 > HP) Plus all the cables that go with it. My O2 feels about 5-7 pounds and is 1x2.5x3 inches or so. Doesn't really fit in the pocket will cables going everywhere sticking out if ya know what I mean. So I figure computer build, get a decent sound card unless you want to walk around with 600+ bucks of crap on you. (Not me) Also you Q701 + O2/ODAC combo will run you over 500 buckoruskies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davidsen*
> 
> Can anyone recommend 2.1 speakers that's good for both gaming and music?


Don't buy the Klipsch Promedia. I have them and hate that *****.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Davidsen*
> 
> Can anyone recommend 2.1 speakers that's good for both gaming and music?
> 
> 
> 
> Budget?
> 
> I don't expect something like the budgets of people over at Stereophile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lot of dough.
Click to expand...

Good question lol. *Comes back with monitors and a 16" Sub.* lol


----------



## Groovy

Came here to say a BIG THANK YOU for this thread, it really helped me choosing a budget setup!
I have a question when I came to order speaker wire, about the AWG (I'm still newb with all that jazz)

So i'm here asking which should I get? 12/14/16 AWG?

Here the setup that's gonna go on a tower pc:

Dayton DTA-100a
Dayton SUB-800
Dayton B652s

Xonar DX 7.1 (need PCI-E)

It's a <10 feet run


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Big Avatar fan I see. Korra was a nice series, although I preferred the Last Air Bender, but that's all personal preference.
> I see you have some Westones. I have to admit I'm jealous because I don't even have anything.


Korra still is a nice series... 40 more episodes coming (for a series total of 52) plus a possible animated movie!! They are bringing in the better prior series writers too, the creators winged it alone for Korra Book One. Korra Book Two is called Spirit and it deals with the spirit world and the origin of the Avatar.

I had a pair of those Westones for a month, returned them as the color was pink instead of red, but they are on my buy list again. My signature rig is half ownership and half wish list. I have never heard anything better than those ES5s... That wasn't like a $3000 plus set of tower speakers.


----------



## Simca

Let's try not to quote 40 people in a single quote everyone. Try to just grab the exact quote you want to quote or just 1 person's quote. If their quote is excessively long please just add the parts you want to comment on. I hate having to use the scroll feature on my mouse to slide down because of 1 or 2 peoples long quotation posts.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Let's try not to quote 40 people in a single quote everyone. Try to just grab the exact quote you want to quote or just 1 person's quote. If their quote is excessively long please just add the parts you want to comment on. I hate having to use the scroll feature on my mouse to slide down because of 1 or 2 peoples long quotation posts.


----------



## Simca

@NinjaSushi2

See how easy it was for you to understand how I'm talking to you as opposed to someone else.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Groovy*
> 
> Came here to say a BIG THANK YOU for this thread, it really helped me choosing a budget setup!
> I have a question when I came to order speaker wire, about the AWG (I'm still newb with all that jazz)
> So i'm here asking which should I get? 12/14/16 AWG?
> Here the setup that's gonna go on a tower pc:
> Dayton DTA-100a
> Dayton SUB-800
> Dayton B652s
> Xonar DX 7.1 (need PCI-E)
> It's a <10 feet run


A less than 10 foot run = 16 AWG will do but the lower the better.


----------



## Groovy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> A less than 10 foot run = 16 AWG will do but the lower the better.


Okay so the lower the better?
Asking because the prices of 12 14 16 on monoprice is like 1$ difference
Didn't make sense to me that lower was better if the better is almost same price


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Groovy*
> 
> Okay so the lower the better?


The lower the AWG number the thicker the braid of cable is before insulation. Thicker is better.


----------



## Riou

Thicker cables mean less resistance and easier flow of electricity. You only really need lower AWG cables for really long cable runs.


----------



## mikeaj

If you want to keep wire resistance below 5% of speaker nominal impedance (a general recommendation, probably overly conservative for many speakers), for about 10 feet, 8 ohm nominal speakers, even 22 AWG is okay...

The low-gauge wire may be needlessly heavy and inflexible, hard to work with. Lower is better just in the sense that because the cross-sectional area is larger, the impedance is a little lower. It's already plenty low compared to the speakers themselves, at the distances you're looking at.

But probably the best response here is "doesn't matter."


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> The K550 is essentially a closed K701/K702/Q701 (Q701 sounds different because of enclosure and driver materials I believe and some other small things. Nobody really found it. It's said the driver is the same but some people are saying things about an aluminum voice coil in the Q701 driver instead of a copper one or something). It's sound stage will probably be slightly smaller and the highs and upper mids slightly weaker but it'll have more bass and lower midrange. I have a friend over at Head-Fi who has a pair (and another who got the Q701 for about $70...).
> 
> I've still yet to get myself a setup. I have $1500, $500 for audio and $1000 for my first build (I promised myself to build a computer 2 years ago when I got into the world of geeks and I still haven't built one...the best I did was help a friend build one and rebuild 3 ancient prebuilts). I listen to Asian pop and Vocaloid the most so I was focusing on looking for a headphone with a good soundstage and strong highs and upper mids and it seems the Q701 with an O2 and ODAC would be best for me. I've started getting into chip music though (actually, I think it mainly utilizes the higher frequencies) and was thinking I should get headphones that were more balanced because of the base line in some but decided against it. Still searching for headphones, but I'll probably stick with a Japanese brand (Audio-Technica, Denon, JVC, etc.) or stick with Austria. I was told Austria (AKG basically) has good relations with Japan or something of the like and AKG's headphones are good when it comes to Japanese music, or just Asian pop in general.
> 
> 
> 
> I am familiar with what the K550 are but you cannot say they are the K701/Q701 with a closed backed. Even trying to compare the K701/Q701 is harder to do without saying virtually same sound stage with more bass and less positioning, still the same uncomfortable headband. From what I've been reading the K550 are the best isolated headphones around before we start talking bookoos of money. M50 used to be the best because the actually isolated where as the Denon claim to but they still leak. K550 have a wonderful soundstage so I've heard and one you get a proper fit they isolate sounds very well and it sounds that much cleaner. Recessed high trebs, great mids to low trebs, decent bass that can be felt rather than heard, and actual noise isolation. Beautiful design obviously with the cups allowing to be folded down when traveling. Durable, touch, though the cord isn't removable which I hate personally. Over all amazing for around 280-300 USD.
> 
> As for you I would question why you need an O2 and ODAC when using a sound card.. If you want music with great highs, rather the ability to hear it clearly and well. I'd say the K702 (like the 701 but cord detachable), O2 if you needed more amp but even still it's pricey IMO. Xonar STX or ST for less jitter and some decent open back cans? Used K702 run at 240 USD (used is better since they are burned in) Just change the pads to clean ones and profit or go new for 280USD, STX 170 USD, ST200 USD. There is your 500 dollar limit and it is all around your PC. O2 and ODAC is more of a portable listening experience and I find the O2 is too bulking to bring around unless you have a back pack but even then. (Source > O2 > HP) Plus all the cables that go with it. My O2 feels about 5-7 pounds and is 1x2.5x3 inches or so. Doesn't really fit in the pocket will cables going everywhere sticking out if ya know what I mean. So I figure computer build, get a decent sound card unless you want to walk around with 600+ bucks of crap on you. (Not me) Also you Q701 + O2/ODAC combo will run you over 500 buckoruskies.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Davidsen*
> 
> Can anyone recommend 2.1 speakers that's good for both gaming and music?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Budget?
> 
> I don't expect something like the budgets of people over at Stereophile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lot of dough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question lol. *Comes back with monitors and a 16" Sub.* lol
Click to expand...

I don't expect it to be identical, and it's only sort of the best I can say because from what I've read, that's what it seems. Technically, it is, but that doesn't mean it will sound very close. I haven't heard them or the Q701/K701/K702 (I'm planning on getting a pair of Q701's though as my first headphone) so I can't really say anything else. Although, from what you've said, I'm not surprised they sound like that. I didn't expect the highs to be that weak (and I haven't heard anything on isolation) but the rest of it matches up with my guesses.

The Q701 also has a detachable chord. It's just tuned to sound different from the K701 and K702 (I believe the driver has a different material for the voice coil. Aluminum instead of copper?)

I didn't say he would need it. It's just something nice that if he could afford and wanted to, he could get.

We all wish we had money for that stuff...well, headphones are considered the "poor man's solution" for speakers to me, even some of the most expensive ones.









Actually, the Arx A1's (now replaced by the A1b) might just be one of those good budget monitors. I've read a few reviews on planar tweeters and they've been on the good side of people most of the time. They're $300 but they're passive so you'll need an amplifier or a receiver (AV or stereo. I personally would choose stereo).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Big Avatar fan I see. Korra was a nice series, although I preferred the Last Air Bender, but that's all personal preference.
> I see you have some Westones. I have to admit I'm jealous because I don't even have anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Korra still is a nice series... 40 more episodes coming (for a series total of 52) plus a possible animated movie!! They are bringing in the better prior series writers too, the creators winged it alone for Korra Book One. Korra Book Two is called Spirit and it deals with the spirit world and the origin of the Avatar.
> 
> I had a pair of those Westones for a month, returned them as the color was pink instead of red, but they are on my buy list again. My signature rig is half ownership and half wish list. I have never heard anything better than those ES5s... That wasn't like a $3000 plus set of tower speakers.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to see season 2. I wonder what's going to happen now that it seems like everything is finished.

I'm extremely jealous...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Let's try not to quote 40 people in a single quote everyone. Try to just grab the exact quote you want to quote or just 1 person's quote. If their quote is excessively long please just add the parts you want to comment on. I hate having to use the scroll feature on my mouse to slide down because of 1 or 2 peoples long quotation posts.
Click to expand...

This. LOL.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> Thicker cables mean less resistance and easier flow of electricity. You only really need lower AWG cables for really long cable runs.


This. Some people just don't mind shelling out some more money though because you can find good cables for only a few dollars (Monoprice, of course).


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Let's try not to quote 40 people in a single quote everyone. Try to just grab the exact quote you want to quote or just 1 person's quote. If their quote is excessively long please just add the parts you want to comment on. I hate having to use the scroll feature on my mouse to slide down because of 1 or 2 peoples long quotation posts.


*ahem*


----------



## Simca

Seriously?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?


Dead photo.


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Its funny this time.. lol but now there are going to be 30 people that think its funny the millionth time around.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Dead photo.


----------



## gdawg33

For the last month or so I have been using an old receiver that I bought 22 years ago in college. It worked perfectly fine, but today something went wrong and I lost it and it also took my sub with me. I am in need of a sub and if its worth it, another receiver. My budget is $150, but if I get a receiver its $250.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Groovy

Alright thanks a lot guys for the quick response!


----------



## Face76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdawg33*
> 
> For the last month or so I have been using an old receiver that I bought 22 years ago in college. It worked perfectly fine, but today something went wrong and I lost it and it also took my sub with me. I am in need of a sub and if its worth it, another receiver. My budget is $150, but if I get a receiver its $250.
> Any suggestions?


Craigslist.


----------



## zingzong

Will upgrade from Philips SHP8500 to Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's will be significant and worth it?


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdawg33*
> 
> For the last month or so I have been using an old receiver that I bought 22 years ago in college. It worked perfectly fine, but today something went wrong and I lost it and it also took my sub with me. I am in need of a sub and if its worth it, another receiver. My budget is $150, but if I get a receiver its $250.
> 
> Any suggestions?


I was recommended the Dayton Sub-1200 which is about $119 at parts express. Craigslist for a $130 receiver...


----------



## adridu59

Did any of you hear about weak front audio with Xonar DGX ?

I'm hesitating between DG and DGX (worried that PCI support could be dropped from future motherboards...).


----------



## Simca

I've added a Microphones section below the DIY section on the last (3rd post) post. I've also changed the color scheme and updated/changed the section dividers with new art. If you would like to contribute your own art that is similar, please PM me an example and I'll replace mine with yours if I really like it.


----------



## senna89

A good 2.1 system for gaming not over 120€ ?
Not for high clims but decent and great for PC gaming.


----------



## yezz12

Sony SRS-A3 or Creative Labs INSPIRE T3130?

I listen to rock/metal.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> Sony SRS-A3 or Creative Labs INSPIRE T3130?
> I listen to rock/metal.


too cheap, more better.


----------



## bjgrenke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> A good 2.1 system for gaming not over 120€ ?
> Not for high clims but decent and great for PC gaming.


Corsair Sp2200.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Does anyone here have the Titanium HD?


----------



## Simca

Instead of posting silly questions just flat out ask the question you have


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bjgrenke*
> 
> Corsair Sp2200.


this product have a production defect ? because i see many many RMA by users.


----------



## bjgrenke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> this product have a production defect ? because i see many many RMA by users.


Mine haven't had any issues. Not sure if they are making them anymore so they might be hard to find. NCIX has them for only $60


----------



## bradkami

Hello,

My main purpose for a sound card is gaming. I recently purchased the sound blaster Recon 3d. My question is, should I return it and get the titanium or Titanium HD? Or keep it since I am mostly gaming?

Also what is the diff between the titanium and the titanium HD? Thanks!


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

I am looking for a good set of Computer Speakers from Newegg. Probably 2.1 would be best, any recommendations?

Not really interested in the Active/Passive Speakers due to having to buy an Amplifier plus 16-gauge wire to hook them up. Never done that before, plus would put the price around $75.00.

Budget: $50.00


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BluePhoenixHD*
> 
> I am looking for a good set of Computer Speakers from Newegg. Probably 2.1 would be best, any recommendations?
> Not really interested in the Active/Passive Speakers due to having to buy an Amplifier plus 16-gauge wire to hook them up. Never done that before, plus would put the price around $75.00.
> Budget: $50.00


I believe it has been 24 hours, is a bump aloud?

Edit: Crap when I logged in it said I had an 1 hour and something more to go for 24 hours. Sorry!


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BluePhoenixHD*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BluePhoenixHD*
> 
> I am looking for a good set of Computer Speakers from Newegg. Probably 2.1 would be best, any recommendations?
> Not really interested in the Active/Passive Speakers due to having to buy an Amplifier plus 16-gauge wire to hook them up. Never done that before, plus would put the price around $75.00.
> Budget: $50.00
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it has been 24 hours, is a bump aloud?
> 
> Edit: Crap when I logged in it said I had an 1 hour and something more to go for 24 hours. Sorry!
Click to expand...

Close enough.jpg I suppose.









To be perfectly honest, you're not going to get much at all 2.1 in that price range, especially since you threw out the idea of a T amp + bookshelfs without even researching it. Speaker wire is super easy. You cut it to length, strip an inch or so off the ends, and plug it in black to black, red to red. It's not hard at all.

But since you're so insistant on "PC Speakers".....
Creative T3130's will be your best bet.

If you would at least consider a much better alternative.....
Lepai TA2020 - $25
Dayton B652's - $30
Speaker wire + 3.5mm to RCA cable = $10 or so
Add a Dayton SUB800 ($80) later on.


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Close enough.jpg I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest, you're not going to get much at all 2.1 in that price range, especially since you threw out the idea of a T amp + bookshelfs without even researching it. Speaker wire is super easy. You cut it to length, strip an inch or so off the ends, and plug it in black to black, red to red. It's not hard at all.
> But since you're so insistant on "PC Speakers".....
> Creative T3130's will be your best bet.
> If you would at least consider a much better alternative.....
> Lepai TA2020 - $25
> Dayton B652's - $30
> Speaker wire + 3.5mm to RCA cable = $10 or so
> Add a Dayton SUB800 ($80) later on.


Thanks, just worried a lot that I would totally mess up with the Bookshelves speakers. If I did go with the Speaker Wire, how long would I need it, plus would I need to sleeve it? Could you help with links? I am assuming Amazon?


----------



## yezz12

Hi.

I have some questions.

I want to improve my portable setup. At the moment it's an iPod 3d Gen and Sennheiser CX400 II (IEMs). What would be a bigger improvement, new IEMs or a portable amp? Are headphones always better than IEMs? Willing to spend 20-80 euro.

Also, i need good speakers for my pc. Yes, speakers for my pc, not necessarily pc speakers. 30-50 euro.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> What would be a bigger improvement, new IEMs or a portable amp? Are headphones always better than IEMs?


New IEMs. Sell your old ones to add to your budget.

No.


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> New IEMs. Sell your old ones to add to your budget.
> No.


Thanks. Any speakers recommendation?


----------



## MAD-DUKE

I returned my Denon 1913. It did sound fantastic, but was extremely buggy. A lot of network issues, to the point I unplugged it and considered it a futile feature. Would get stuck on FM stations and refuse to change... Along with other issues. Their support is complete crap... 24-72 hour response time never happened after several requests throughout the month for assistance.. not one response. I could actually live with the issues... but then I was thinking... why should I

I might just have gotten a defective unit, but I was interested it there was a higher quality or better unit that others have played with?


----------



## Deckkie

Hi,

I was hoping you guys can help me a little further with buying my headphone/headset. I want to buy a headphone for gaming and listening to classic rock. My budget is around 100 euro. The problem is that the headphone that would be advised to me (Fostex T50RP, Grado SR80i and Alessandro MS1i) are very hard to come by in my country. the SR80i costs nothing less than 160 euro here, which is definatly above my budget.

Both AKG and Sennheiser however are easy to come by, and seem to have much better prices. Are there maybe any headphones other than the ones advised that I can look into? I should ad that I am looking for a comfortable lightweight headphone.

A second question is about the AKG-GHS 1. I do like this headphone. Does anybody know how well it does in its mids and highs? And I hear different opinions about the comfort, how bad is it?

Hope its not too much. And THANKS!!


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deckkie*
> 
> Hi,
> I was hoping you guys can help me a little further with buying my headphone/headset. I want to buy a headphone for gaming and listening to classic rock. My budget is around 100 euro. The problem is that the headphone that would be advised to me (Fostex T50RP, Grado SR80i and Alessandro MS1i) are very hard to come by in my country. the SR80i costs nothing less than 160 euro here, which is definatly above my budget.
> Both AKG and Sennheiser however are easy to come by, and seem to have much better prices. Are there maybe any headphones other than the ones advised that I can look into? I should ad that I am looking for a comfortable lightweight headphone.
> A second question is about the AKG-GHS 1. I do like this headphone. Does anybody know how well it does in its mids and highs? And I hear different opinions about the comfort, how bad is it?
> Hope its not too much. And THANKS!!


Where u from?

Try eBay/Amazon


----------



## Deckkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> Where u from?
> Try eBay/Amazon


Im from the Netherlands.
And I could indeed buy it from ebay for a little cheaper, but when I include shipping the cost, and the risk of extra VAT, I prefer to not buy it there. I will keep it in mind though, thanks.


----------



## superbarnie

Hello, I am trying to decide between buying the JVC HARX700 ($33) and the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S ($29) .

I need a headphone for listening to music and gaming. I usually listen to metal or classical music, but mostly metal. Considering the price and sound quality which one would be better?

Other recommendations are welcome, but I can only afford $40 or less.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Hello, I am trying to decide between buying the JVC HARX700 ($33) and the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S ($29) .
> 
> I need a headphone for listening to music and gaming. I usually listen to metal or classical music, but mostly metal. Considering the price and sound quality which one would be better?
> 
> Other recommendations are welcome, but I can only afford $40 or less.


Between those two, I'd definitely say the RX700's. I really enjoyed mine for the price.


----------



## superbarnie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Between those two, I'd definitely say the RX700's. I really enjoyed mine for the price.


Wow, thats a fast reply! thanks!

Would you mind explaining more in detail? for example, in which areas do the RX700 surpass that of the RP-HTF600-S?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Between those two, I'd definitely say the RX700's. I really enjoyed mine for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, thats a fast reply! thanks!
> 
> Would you mind explaining more in detail? for example, in which areas do the RX700 surpass that of the RP-HTF600-S?
Click to expand...

I've just NEVER heard anybody ever recommend those particular headphones. The RX700's were a long time on the recommended under $40 list though. I've never personally owned the Panasonics, so I cannot comment on them at all...just that I loved my RX700's.


----------



## superbarnie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> I've just NEVER heard anybody ever recommend those particular headphones. The RX700's were a long time on the recommended under $40 list though. I've never personally owned the Panasonics, so I cannot comment on them at all...just that I loved my RX700's.


The panasonic one is recommended in the "Hidden Gems" section in the OP. The author seems to hold it in high esteem.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> I've just NEVER heard anybody ever recommend those particular headphones. The RX700's were a long time on the recommended under $40 list though. I've never personally owned the Panasonics, so I cannot comment on them at all...just that I loved my RX700's.
> 
> 
> 
> The panasonic one is recommended in the "Hidden Gems" section in the OP. The author seems to hold it in high esteem.
Click to expand...

Well, Simca definitely knows headphones a lot better than I do. I might have to give those Panasonics a try then, I'm personally in the market for some new cheaper cans myself too.


----------



## Simca

Eh..Hidden Gem? I'm removing that. I'd say if you want bass gun for the RX700s. The bass IMO on the HTF-600s is under the amount on the DT880s. The drivers on the headphone are good for the price, but the enclosure is pretty awful.

it's a toss up. Both have strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deckkie*
> 
> Im from the Netherlands.
> And I could indeed buy it from ebay for a little cheaper, but when I include shipping the cost, and the risk of extra VAT, I prefer to not buy it there. I will keep it in mind though, thanks.


Amazon.de

They ship to Netherlands. Usually very good prices, but not on the Grado.


----------



## senna89

Someone know the *KRATOR NESO 06 2.1* series ?
Have u ever had some experience whit this products ? is it a good product ?
But first at all *its subwoofer are magnetically shielded ?*


----------



## elreyhorus

Anyone on this thread have a Etymotic Research ER-4S or ER-4P/ER-4PT? cuz I recently decided to send my aging ER-4P to Etymotic Research for evaluation. It needed a cable replacement because the channels would intermittently cut out whenever I jiggled the 3.5 mm plug. Anyway, they told me that not only was the cable bad, but that the transducer stem was cracked. FYI, the transducer stem is the portion of the IEM that the eartip/sleeve attaches to.

I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue with the transducer stem cracking?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Anyone on this thread have a Etymotic Research ER-4S or ER-4P/ER-4PT? cuz I recently decided to send my aging ER-4P to Etymotic Research for evaluation. It needed a cable replacement because the channels would intermittently cut out whenever I jiggled the 3.5" plug. Anyway, they told me that not only was the cable bad, but that the transducer stem was cracked. FYI, the transducer stem is the portion of the IEM that the eartip/sleeve attaches to.
> I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue with the transducer stem cracking?


Yes, it is a known issue especially with frequent tip replacement.


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Yes, it is a known issue especially with frequent tip replacement.


Oh okay. I'm guessing it is a design flaw perhaps? The stem is rather long compared to other IEMs that I'm aware of and the insertion is deep, placing greater strain on the stem during removal.
Anyway, thanks.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Oh okay. I'm guessing it is a design flaw perhaps? The stem is rather long compared to other IEMs that I'm aware of and the insertion is deep, placing greater strain on the stem during removal.
> Anyway, thanks.


Yes, it is the Achilles heel of an otherwise robust design.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Someone know the *KRATOR NESO 06 2.1* series ?
> Have u ever had some experience whit this products ? is it a good product ?
> But first at all *its subwoofer are magnetically shielded ?*


help


----------



## Face76

Subs generally aren't. Have you contacted the manufacturer?


----------



## superbarnie

Damn.. I was gonna buy the RX700 for $33 on amazon but now it suddenly raised the price to $36!!!!









What other websites would you guys recommend buying headphones from?


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Damn.. I was gonna buy the RX700 for $33 on amazon but now it suddenly raised the price to $36!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other websites would you guys recommend buying headphones from?


Haha, is that extra $3 a deal breaker?









I've started shopping at B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Headphones/ci/12572/N/4220238605

Their prices seem to be lower than Newegg/Amazon and they offer free ground shipping anywhere in the US. I got my PRO 550s for ~$140 shipped.


----------



## superbarnie

lol, its cause I have to have my parent's permission to buy stuff. I told them that It would cost $30, but now its more like $40.

I checked out that website, but it seems they don't sell RX700


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> Damn.. I was gonna buy the RX700 for $33 on amazon but now it suddenly raised the price to $36!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other websites would you guys recommend buying headphones from?


What I like to do is throw a ton of stuff that I am interested in... into my cart/wishlist... Then watch the prices go up and down... After a few weeks of watching the flux I wait till it hits the low end. It's amazing how high and low things flux around.


----------



## RallyMaster

Or you could simply use this: http://camelcamelcamel.com/

...to keep track of prices.

And to the dude who won't order RX700s because of 3 dollars....sigh.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Or you could simply use this: http://camelcamelcamel.com/
> 
> ...to keep track of prices.
> 
> And to the dude who won't order RX700s because of 3 dollars....sigh.


That's 1/11of the price. Huge.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's 1/11of the price. Huge.


Just don't get that cup of Starbucks tomorrow morning. How bad could it be?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's 1/11of the price. Huge.
> 
> 
> 
> Just don't get that cup of Starbucks tomorrow morning. How bad could it be?
Click to expand...

Do you work 9-5? If you did, you'd know you couldn't make it through the day without that cup o' joe.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Do you work 9-5? If you did, you'd know you couldn't make it through the day without that cup o' joe.


I work 9 to 6. I don't drink coffee.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Do you work 9-5? If you did, you'd know you couldn't make it through the day without that cup o' joe.
> 
> 
> 
> I work 9 to 6. I don't drink coffee.
Click to expand...


----------



## RallyMaster

Coffee is for people with jobs that don't keep them awake


----------



## SlyFox

I work 11 - 8 and still can't go through the day without drinking coffee. Then again I sit and take calls all day


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlyFox*
> 
> I work 11 - 8 and still can't go through the day without drinking coffee. Then again I sit and take calls all day


Call center job?


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Coffee is for people with jobs that don't keep them awake


Agreed, I only need a Monster/Coffee when I am sitting down and not doing anything to active and I did not sleep the night before.


----------



## snoball

Sup guys.

I was given a pair JVC RX900s

Should they be amp'd from my PC?

IIRC you look at Input Impedance for this? 64 ohms.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Sup guys.
> I was given a pair JVC RX900s
> Should they be amp'd from my PC?
> IIRC you look at Input Impedance for this? 64 ohms.


Mod Em.....
http://www.head-fi.org/t/381303/jvc-ha-rx900-modifications-a-picture-tutorial-56k-forget-about-it

Love mine...


----------



## superbarnie

Hi, I would like to know how does to JVC RX700 compare to the ATH-M30. I'm asking because my brother has the M30.


----------



## Jobotoo

I am trying to get the best MIC sound as well as good headset sound. In the past I have tried using a mixer with pre-amp for Mic and it was pretty bad. I've been using different headsets/gaming headsets in the past year and the sound I hear seems adequate enough for my needs, but I always get others that are listening to me say that either it sounds bad, they can barely hear me, or not at all. At the same time others hear me just fine . . . ?

So I am thinking of getting the following components to make gaming voice comm as good as possible within my budget:

1. ASUS Xonar Essence STX (Unless you think the ASUS Xonar DX would more than suffice)
2. Sennheiser PC360

I do not know/understand what does or does not need an amp.

I do have a Mixer with Pre-AMPs for Mics, and I have an AKG Perception 200 microphone. I do not think I will be using them as the Mic picked up way to much background noise. But then again, it may have been due to user error.

My budget was $150 for the sound card, but was willing to spend extra on the Sennheiser PC360 if it would really make a difference. But I would prefer to stay at around $150 which I know I can get the ASUS Xonar Essence STX for used/refurbished, or go with the DX for $90ish.

I do not currently have a sound card in my PC.









Advice and suggestions are most welcome.


----------



## snoball

My Q of needing to amp the JVC 900s was half answered. Thanks for posting that mod guide, I'll have to try it.

Anyone know if these should be amp'd?
IIRC you look at Input Impedance for this? 64 ohms.


----------



## Simca

No, they don't need to be amped.

People should really read up on the headphones they're buying before purchasing. You shouldn't buy headphones NOT knowing if they need to be amped.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No, they don't need to be amped.
> People should really read up on the headphones they're buying before purchasing. You shouldn't buy headphones NOT knowing if they need to be amped.


These were just given to me actually, didn't buy em.


----------



## Jobotoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jobotoo*
> 
> I am trying to get the best MIC sound as well as good headset sound. In the past I have tried using a mixer with pre-amp for Mic and it was pretty bad. I've been using different headsets/gaming headsets in the past year and the sound I hear seems adequate enough for my needs, but I always get others that are listening to me say that either it sounds bad, they can barely hear me, or not at all. At the same time others hear me just fine . . . ?
> So I am thinking of getting the following components to make gaming voice comm as good as possible within my budget:
> 1. ASUS Xonar Essence STX (Unless you think the ASUS Xonar DX would more than suffice)
> 2. Sennheiser PC360
> I do not know/understand what does or does not need an amp.
> I do have a Mixer with Pre-AMPs for Mics, and I have an AKG Perception 200 microphone. I do not think I will be using them as the Mic picked up way to much background noise. But then again, it may have been due to user error.
> My budget was $150 for the sound card, but was willing to spend extra on the Sennheiser PC360 if it would really make a difference. But I would prefer to stay at around $150 which I know I can get the ASUS Xonar Essence STX for used/refurbished, or go with the DX for $90ish.
> I do not currently have a sound card in my PC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advice and suggestions are most welcome.


Anyone?


----------



## superbarnie

Yay! RX700's are back down to $33!!!! !! ! !!1 MUST BUY!! !! !! !!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jobotoo*
> 
> Anyone?


what you suggested was fine if you do a mix of movies, gaming and music but consider the Creative Titanium HD as well.


----------



## superbarnie

Hi guys, (sorry for yet another help request, im clueless)

I'm am trying to decide between the JVC RX700 ($33) and the Superlux HD681 ($30).

Many people have said the JVC RX700 are good and I was intending to buy it, but then I read the OP post again and it said the HD681 is really good for *gaming* and *metal*, both of which I relish.

Would the HD681 be better for my needs or is the JVC RX700 still better?


----------



## Simca

Superlux are the better headphones.

Those in particular skimp on the bass compared to the RX700s.

If you want the bass (and better bass) the Samson SR850s are the obvious choice (but at a higher price).


----------



## snoball

SR850s are godly! I love mine!

Electronic music fan here.

Also for gaming they have amazing positional audio (?). I can locate people instantly when I hear em. FPS games.


----------



## superbarnie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Superlux are the better headphones.
> Those in particular skimp on the bass compared to the RX700s.
> If you want the bass (and better bass) the Samson SR850s are the obvious choice (but at a higher price).


Thanks Simca! I'll buy the Superlux then!


----------



## Plooto

Are the 250ohm Beyerdynamic DT990s worth it for £120? Can I use my Xonar STX's amp with them instead of buying an amp?


----------



## hurley5126

Can anyone help me decide between the AKG GHS1 and Samson SR850/JVC RX 900. Amazon has these at similar prices, initially I was going to go with a headphone but I spend a lot of time on skype/mumble and not having to deal with a separate mic would be nice.

Mainly looking for decent sq for music and voice. I play mostly RTS and MOBA games so game sound quality isn't that important.


----------



## Simca

Quick note the AKG's are on the ear. Consider that.

The Samson's would be my choice.


----------



## hurley5126

Thanks Simca. I did notice the AKGs are on ear but I have had several on ear headsets in the past so I don't think it will bother me too much. However, I have read that they do squeeze your head quite a bit unless you have a small head, which did somewhat worry me. I would say I have an average sized head but I have used a pair of logitech g35s for a few days previously and those things were beyond painful.


----------



## admflameberg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plooto*
> 
> Are the 250ohm Beyerdynamic DT990s worth it for £120? Can I use my Xonar STX's amp with them instead of buying an amp?


Yes you can as the STX hp amp will happen those headphones. If you worry about the DT990s, If you have a place around you that will let you ttry them out. Then I suggest you try them out first, To see if you like them first.


----------



## Jobotoo

FYI - I just got these installed on Windows 8 Pro, and they work GREAT!

ASUS Xonar Essence STX (With Uni drivers)
Audio Technica AD700
Olympus Noise Cancelling Microphone - ME52W


----------



## Plooto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admflameberg*
> 
> Yes you can as the STX hp amp will happen those headphones. If you worry about the DT990s, If you have a place around you that will let you ttry them out. Then I suggest you try them out first, To see if you like them first.


Thanks, I'll consider them. +rep


----------



## TheExile

I'm looking for some speakers that would be good for movies, music and gaming. I would like to connect them through a TV and desktop.

I looked at the recommended products on the first page and the active speakers look like it might be the way to go. However, I'm looking for something that will fill a room and all the recommendations seem to be for studio use. How well do active studio monitors perform in a medium sized room?

My budget is ~ $400 in total and would like some suggestions for this price range. If studio monitors would work for these applications I was looking at something like the Rokit 5 or 6, M BX5 D2, or the Yamaha HS50m.

Or if these are too small to fill the room, waiting until I have the money for the Rokit 8's or Yamaha HS80m.

I currently don't have a sound card so anything would likely be connected through a headphone jack until I bought one.

Any input would be much appreciated, thanks.


----------



## Simca

Not Enough Info.

How much bass are you looking for in the speaker? Are you planning to ever get a subwoofer? Is this a temporary upgrade until you can afford better or are these meant to be a one time buy. If one time buy are you going to get a subwoofer? What music do you listen to? Do you want them to be neutral? Do you want them to emphasize one end of the spectrum over another? How large or small do you need/want them to be? What about the sound card? Are you wanting an internal solution or external? How much are you putting down on the card? How much do we really have to work with with the speakers after the sound card is considered?

Rokits are great if you want them heavier on the bass side. M-Audio is great if you're looking for more detailed speakers and not bass oriented. Yamaha's are great if you're looking for a more neutral sound (though not all of them are neutral).


----------



## TheExile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not Enough Info.
> How much bass are you looking for in the speaker? Are you planning to ever get a subwoofer? Is this a temporary upgrade until you can afford better or are these meant to be a one time buy. If one time buy are you going to get a subwoofer? What music do you listen to? Do you want them to be neutral? Do you want them to emphasize one end of the spectrum over another? How large or small do you need/want them to be? What about the sound card? Are you wanting an internal solution or external? How much are you putting down on the card? How much do we really have to work with with the speakers after the sound card is considered?
> Rokits are great if you want them heavier on the bass side. M-Audio is great if you're looking for more detailed speakers and not bass oriented. Yamaha's are great if you're looking for a more neutral sound (though not all of them are neutral).


Sorry for my lack of information I'm relatively new to this.

I'm looking for moderate bass that accents the music, rather than overpowering it. I may get a subwoofer down the road, but it will likely not be an immediate purchase. These are meant to be a one time purchase, so as a result I would like them to hold up over time as well as work with future component upgrades. I listen to a lot of mixes without vocals that include pop, hip-hop, techno and mild dubstep, as well as tracks with vocals in the same genres. I would like them to be neutral in the sense that you hear what was intended to be heard, but not so neutral that you hear all the minor imperfections. I would also prefer a balance of the spectrum. I would like them to be big enough for 10'x11' room, with room to grow in the future (I was looking between 5-8 inch range).

The sound card I would prefer to be internal, but wouldn't be against an external solution. I fall under "THE MUSIC LOVER" category for the sound card. I'm open to suggestions budget wise for the card, so I'm still leaving around $400 maybe up to $500 for the speakers themselves.

I would prefer to use Amazon for the purchase of the speakers and sound card if possible.

I'm not sure if any of these would fit my needs.

-M-Audio BX8 D2

-Mackie MR8MK2

-Pioneer S-DJ05

Thanks for the reply it's much appreciated, plus rep.


----------



## pioneerisloud

If you're wanting room to grow, why not use a receiver, no sound card (just use digital outs), and some good floor standing tower speakers, or some great bookshelfs for 2.0? Heck you could just about fit a subwoofer in there as well right now if you wanted to with $500 (almost).


----------



## TheExile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> If you're wanting room to grow, why not use a receiver, no sound card (just use digital outs), and some good floor standing tower speakers, or some great bookshelfs for 2.0? Heck you could just about fit a subwoofer in there as well right now if you wanted to with $500 (almost).


I had initially looked into a couple tower speakers and a receiver, but it looks like any tower speakers that aren't made by Sony run $150+ a piece. Factored in with something like an entry to mid level Yamaha receiver ($300+), I'm roughly at the price of a pair of active speakers and a sound card. I'm not sure which would perform better or if I'm looking at the wrong brands however.

So any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheExile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> If you're wanting room to grow, why not use a receiver, no sound card (just use digital outs), and some good floor standing tower speakers, or some great bookshelfs for 2.0? Heck you could just about fit a subwoofer in there as well right now if you wanted to with $500 (almost).
> 
> 
> 
> I had initially looked into a couple tower speakers and a receiver, but it looks like any tower speakers that aren't made by Sony run $150+ a piece. Factored in with something like an entry to mid level Yamaha receiver ($300+), I'm roughly at the price of a pair of active speakers and a sound card. I'm not sure which would perform better or if I'm looking at the wrong brands however.
> 
> So any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.
Click to expand...

The Pioneer tower speakers are $120 shipped for a pair. BIC Venturi's with 8" woofers are like $180 / pair. Polk Monitor 50's are under $200 or so usually, so are the 60's and 70's on sale.

You just gotta know where to look.


----------



## TheExile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> The Pioneer tower speakers are $120 shipped for a pair. BIC Venturi's with 8" woofers are like $180 / pair. Polk Monitor 50's are under $200 or so usually, so are the 60's and 70's on sale.
> You just gotta know where to look.


Thanks, the Polk Monitor 70's appear to be $200 each on Newegg with free shipping. However, will I lose audio quality, overall loudness or balanced sound with these, over studio monitors?

Edit: They also seem to be geared more towards a home theater 5.1 / 7.1 setup, are these still viable for mostly listening to music?

Also if I did go this route, what amp / receiver would you recommend to power them?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Yeah, they'll be great on music. They'll be more bright sounding than a studio monitor would, but adjusting the EQ can always fix that.

For a receiver, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, or Pioneer would all do fine. For tower speakers, I'd look at a mid range or higher unit, as you'll want some decent power behind the tower speakers.


----------



## TheExile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Yeah, they'll be great on music. They'll be more bright sounding than a studio monitor would, but adjusting the EQ can always fix that.
> For a receiver, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, or Pioneer would all do fine. For tower speakers, I'd look at a mid range or higher unit, as you'll want some decent power behind the tower speakers.


Ok, thank you for your help.

I'm not looking to make the purchase for a few weeks, just wanted to get an idea on what I should budget, so I'll wait to see the OP's take on active speakers vs this passive setup to get some varied opinions and decide from there.


----------



## Despair

Guys, the list has failed me. After my Razer Carcharias gave out after 1 year of service, i needed a quick buy.. so i came here, weighed my options and ended up getting the SR850s. My initial impressions were just wow...for 50 bucks, i got the perfect balance of bass, and gaming...it was absolutely perfect for me because i still needed that wide range sound for gaming to soundwhore and such, but i am also a Electronic lover so i just had to have my bass. Perfect.

One problem...the cord.. After a few weeks, i noticed the cord on the SR850 started to scrounge up into knots and tangles and every time i sat down i'd have to pull it straight so the cord wasn't pulling on my head, well after awhile i noticed that the cord started stripping itself from being bended and pulled over and over and over..and eventually it just stripped itself and the right earcup gave out.. and then the cord just eventually came off completely. I thought of just cutting the wire at the points where it was stripped, re-stripping and reconnecting with some electrical tape, but the cord has about 5 breaks and it still retracts into knots..i basically have a paperweight. Has anybody else with SR850s had this problem? (Can't return because bought them as an open box on ebay and it has passed the 14 day return)

So I come here yet again needing a quick buy with a budget of $100-$120..

Wants: BASS, but not all out bass, i need to be able to game also. 50/50 ratio like the SR850s would be perfect.
Better quality than SR850 for $100, if same sound quality at $70-80 that's fine, but at a $100 i'd like better sound quality.
Braided cable...please if you can find something that fits what i want but with a braided cable that'd be awesome, i really don't wanna go through the problem with the SR850 again.

_______________

That being said I HAVE a $120-100 budget but doesn't mean i wanna spend all of it. In the middle would be preferred ($70-80).

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Fortunex

Don't think many/any headphones have braided cables, pretty sure that would make microphonics (where you can hear your cable bumping into/brushing against things in the headphone) really bad.

Creative Aurvana Live! comes to mind. Fairly warm/bassy signature, or maybe Koss Pro DJ100.


----------



## Despair

Also, I'm looking for these to last at least 1-2 years. It is stated that the Auravana Live has inferior sound quality in the OP, how bad is it?


----------



## minorhunter

Hi,

I need a new headset for gaming and some music listening on computer, no price range here but price-wise is good. I have sennheiser HD 800 at the moment but it's not that good for gaming and it lacks a mic. I'v heard that Astro is making some good headsets, any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## snoball

I bug you guys too much in this thread. I love the help though.

Can anyone recommend a pair of headphones for the following.

-Use in school library and common areas.
-Need good isolation, minimal leaking sound.
-Genres: Drum and Bass, House, Electro, Chill out, Ambient
-Does not need tons of bass power, just enough to be present.

I listen to music while I work on my C++ stuff. This is why I am trying to purchase some headphones.


----------



## Simca

Snoball:
A900s or IEMs.

Senn. HD25-1 IIs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Don't think many/any headphones have braided cables, pretty sure that would make microphonics (where you can hear your cable bumping into/brushing against things in the headphone) really bad.
> 
> Creative Aurvana Live! comes to mind. Fairly warm/bassy signature, or maybe Koss Pro DJ100.


No, it wouldn't. It's a very popular modding technique for those looking for more style for their headphones and are DIY people.

@Despair

Pay 24 dollars more and buy the Ultrasone Pro 550s. It'll be worth it and you won't need an upgrade for a long time. Buy them from B&H or Amazon. Stay away from Open Box Items on ebay again..


----------



## Despair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Snoball:
> A900s or IEMs.
> Senn. HD25-1 IIs.
> No, it wouldn't. It's a very popular modding technique for those looking for more style for their headphones and are DIY people.
> @Despair
> Pay 24 dollars more and buy the Ultrasone Pro 550s. It'll be worth it and you won't need an upgrade for a long time. Buy them from B&H or Amazon. Stay away from Open Box Items on ebay again..


Couldn't find the Sr850 anywhere else that I trusted because I don't like the way Amazon does things with individual selllers . There was nothing wrong with them when I got them and I'm sure the cord issue was a problem with the headphones itself. Do those sound better than the Sr850? Are they overly bass for gaming?

Eelaborate please. I really wanna know what I'm buying, especially for that price


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Despair*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Snoball:
> A900s or IEMs.
> Senn. HD25-1 IIs.
> No, it wouldn't. It's a very popular modding technique for those looking for more style for their headphones and are DIY people.
> @Despair
> Pay 24 dollars more and buy the Ultrasone Pro 550s. It'll be worth it and you won't need an upgrade for a long time. Buy them from B&H or Amazon. Stay away from Open Box Items on ebay again..
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't find the Sr850 anywhere else that I trusted because I don't like the way Amazon does things with individual selllers . There was nothing wrong with them when I got them and I'm sure the cord issue was a problem with the headphones itself. Do those sound better than the Sr850? Are they overly bass for gaming?
> 
> Eelaborate please. I really wanna know what I'm buying, especially for that price
Click to expand...

I find your laziness disturbing. *Crushes your soul*

In short, they have a lot of bass, more than the SR850s, but it's not ugly bass. It's great for gaming and possibly better than the SR850s for gaming if you like S-Logic tech. It's the number 1 upgrade from the SR850s. It's an all in one headphone like the SR850s. It's build quality is better than the SR850s.

In short, it's better than the SR850s.

idk what else you want. zz.


----------



## Despair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I find your laziness disturbing. *Crushes your soul*
> In short, they have a lot of bass, more than the SR850s, but it's not ugly bass. It's great for gaming and possibly better than the SR850s for gaming if you like S-Logic tech. It's the number 1 upgrade from the SR850s. It's an all in one headphone like the SR850s. It's build quality is better than the SR850s.
> In short, it's better than the SR850s.
> idk what else you want. zz.


Well, I'm sorry i sound like that, but i am disturbingly not-knowledgeable in the audio department.. What about the audio-Technica ATH-A700s ? What's the difference between those and the 550s other than s-logic and the frequency range? Sorry, but like i said I'm extremely dumb-founded when it comes to audio lo


----------



## Simca

A700s don't really have bass. They're bass light. Not as bass light as the AD700s, but bass light anyway. The Pro 550s have a lot of bass to enjoy. The SR850s have more bass than the A700s. The A700s are great for gaming and better than both pro 550s and sr850s. They're comfortable. Good mids and good highs. Bright sounding, uhh..yeah.


----------



## Despair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> A700s don't really have bass. They're bass light. Not as bass light as the AD700s, but bass light anyway. The Pro 550s have a lot of bass to enjoy. The SR850s have more bass than the A700s. The A700s are great for gaming and better than both pro 550s and sr850s. They're comfortable. Good mids and good highs. Bright sounding, uhh..yeah.


Alrighty then, so the A700s are good; just not for me because i want some decent bass tied in with great gaming sound.. Alright then 550s here i come lol.. Thanks for helping me with your informative posts. +rep


----------



## ltpenguin

Hey what do you guys think of the Sennheiser HD 429 for $80? I'm in need of new headphones. I'm looking at $80 on the headphones tops with a min. warranty of 2 years; My headphones tend to break







. All help is a appreciated :3
I listen to death metal, electro basically anything really :S and watch a lot of movies/tv shows. While i do play games like counter strike it is not top priority, i'd rather have better quality music. I'm not going Cal anytime soon









Edit: Made a thread here so it will be easier for people to find in the future ;3


----------



## iARDAs

Hey Simca

I am going to be replacing my Akg AGS headset which I purchased via this guide.

It is a great headset but I damaged its cables. Also the microphone is not so great.

I will get a headphone only this time.

I game, and listen to music with my PC

Should I go for the AD700? or should I put $50 more on the table and grab a Ultrason Pro 550?

I have a Creative XFI Titanium sound card and lets keep that in mind.

Edit :

Last but not least, how will the sound quality be compared to the Akg AGS headset?

Thank you.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Hey Simca
> 
> I am going to be replacing my Akg AGS headset which I purchased via this guide.
> 
> It is a great headset but I damaged its cables. Also the microphone is not so great.
> 
> I will get a headphone only this time.
> 
> I game, and listen to music with my PC
> 
> Should I go for the AD700? or should I put $50 more on the table and grab a Ultrason Pro 550?
> 
> I have a Creative XFI Titanium sound card and lets keep that in mind.


Off to a great start, but we need some more information still. What music are you planning on listening to MOSTLY with your headphones? Please try to name specific genres or bands. Saying I like everything is difficult to help you out with. The AD700s are NOT meant for someone that in any way respects bass. They are bassless. You get a puh..whisper on your ear. That's the extent of the bass on the AD700s.

The Pro 550s are bassy on the other hand. They're great for electronic music.

if these are JUST gaming headphones, you can do with the AD700s as those are the better choice anyway for gaming.


----------



## iARDAs

Thank you for the very fast response.

Let me summarize it better and quickly now.

I will be gaming 80-85% and the music is not going to be my major concern to be honest, however at night sometimes I really like to listen to music with headphones.I listen to Pop, Slow pop, Slow Rock, Italian Slow songs etc... When I listen to something loud such as heavier Rock or Pop or Hip Hop, i do it in the morning or afternoon and than I don't have the need for a headphone because I use my speakers.

I wanted the bass for explosions in the games such as BF3. However if a headphone like the Ad700 can give me really good explosions than maybe I wont need bass at all. Again my current semi-dead headset is a AKG AGS and I like the sound quality on that thing very well.

Last but not least I live in Turkey and I will have to import this headphones as they are not sold here. It is not written in your guide but I guess you do not recommend the Razer Orca headphones or the Razer Characias headset right? I can get them here in Turkey and would have warranty. If those Razers headphones will be close to the AD700, and even though the Ad700 might be better, for custom and warranty reasons I might opt for a Razer headphone.

If they are garbage though (and I trust your judgment) than I will import something over the internet.

Thank you once again


----------



## Simca

No, the AD700s aren't for you if you want immersion. They're for advantage game play. That said, the CAL, the Pro 550 or even the SR850 would be a good choice for you.


----------



## iARDAs

Thank you for the response. I believe I will give the Creative Aurvana Live a shot than









One very last thing. Is there a stand alone high quality mic on the market?

My AKG AGS picked up my keyboard strokes or any other ambient sound and I could have only used it with push to talk. I want something that will only pick up my noise when I speak?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Thank you for the response. I believe I will give the Creative Aurvana Live a shot than
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One very last thing. Is there a stand alone high quality mic on the market?
> 
> My AKG AGS picked up my keyboard strokes or any other ambient sound and I could have only used it with push to talk. I want something that will only pick up my noise when I speak?


There's a section for mics.


----------



## golfergolfer

Hi









So when it comes to this type of thing I dont know tons so I need help








So I am looking at getting a pair of in ear headphones.
Budget - $175 and below
Music - Very wide range however I enjoy solid bass and crisp clear vocals (is this even possible?)
Use - Plan on using them everywhere I go, So I might be running or sitting on a bus, who knows








Technicality - MUST be bought from Future Shop... Reason for this is I have connections and can get discounted price








Have used - My most recent ones I used were Bose MIE2i and the reason for these was that they had the ear thingy...
My birthday is coming up and I am hoping that OCN can help me choose a gift for me








Thanks for all your help







(providing I get any







)


----------



## osoirritable

Is anyone using a sound blaster soundcard with an external usb dac e.g. listening to the stereo mix (named "what "u" hear" apparently by creative) into the DAC and thereby bypassing the soundblaster dac.
I want to improve positional performance for headphone gaming by adding a soundblaster card to an e10 + dt 770 pro 80ohm pairing. As I'll be bypassing the dac on the soundblaster would I gain anything over an xtreme gamer\ music card by going titanium or titanium pro? Will adding the soundblaster improve positional audio in modern games on headphones at all? Any one have any experience of this kind of setup?

Edit: Is the X-Fi MB2 any good?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *osoirritable*
> 
> Is anyone using a sound blaster soundcard with an external usb dac e.g. listening to the stereo mix (named "what "u" hear" apparently by creative) into the DAC and thereby bypassing the soundblaster dac.
> I want to improve positional performance for headphone gaming by adding a soundblaster card to an e10 + dt 770 pro 80ohm pairing. As I'll be bypassing the dac on the soundblaster would I gain anything over an xtreme gamer\ music card by going titanium or titanium pro? Will adding the soundblaster improve positional audio in modern games on headphones at all? Any one have any experience of this kind of setup?
> Edit: Is the X-Fi MB2 any good?


Anecdotally I have done this using the onboard Sound Blaster on my previous Maximus IV Gene-Z routed to my Peachtree Nova via optical. Yes, the passthrough works fine and you can indeed utilize the driver's digital enhancements while still using the external DAC. Yes, the Sound Blaster software still provided an improvement.


----------



## osoirritable

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Anecdotally I have done this using the onboard Sound Blaster on my previous Maximus IV Gene-Z routed to my Peachtree Nova via optical. Yes, the passthrough works fine and you can indeed utilize the driver's digital enhancements while still using the external DAC. Yes, the Sound Blaster software still provided an improvement.


Thanks, sounds like it could be something to play with then. It's a question of whether to go for the gamer or the titanium I'm guessing that the actual processing doesn't get any better and it's just the quality of the DAC and outputs that improve. I'm pretty sure they all use the same processor and software.


----------



## Triniboi82

@ Simca

So I've been lurking this thread a couple pages back & decided to order the Ultrasone pro 550 due to ur high praises + addtl research on the net. I have a recon 3D sound card & was interested in utilizing the addtl features which was not possible with my G930. I game & watch alot of movies, occasionally listen to music (rock,rap,reggae)

My question is the amp included with the recon 3D enough to drive these heaphones or should I invest in an amplifier?

Thanks.....audio noob


----------



## golfergolfer

aww I guess no one wants to help me buy my birthday present all I need is your







How about the Monster Turbines?


----------



## sexypirates

so uh, i have a Marantz ST100 sitting in my garage. It's ancient, older than I am. Is this a viable reciever to drive some Infinity Primus p153's?

EDIT: Model # TA 100. Its a 100 Watt reciever, and I'm making a trek to Fry's today to cop the Infinity P153's for $53 each, salvaging unused wires from my home theater, and getting a RCA to 3.5 as well there. Wish me luck, hopefully it'll work.

Am I doing to need a sub for this?










EDIT #2: Copped the Primus P153's, and they worked fine. Drives the DT770 Pro/250 and AD700 that I picked up today perfectly as well. Very different from the SR-60's that I trashed around in HS.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Hi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when it comes to this type of thing I dont know tons so I need help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I am looking at getting a pair of in ear headphones.
> Budget - $175 and below
> Music - Very wide range however I enjoy solid bass and crisp clear vocals (is this even possible?)
> Use - Plan on using them everywhere I go, So I might be running or sitting on a bus, who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technicality - MUST be bought from Future Shop... Reason for this is I have connections and can get discounted price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have used - My most recent ones I used were Bose MIE2i and the reason for these was that they had the ear thingy...
> My birthday is coming up and I am hoping that OCN can help me choose a gift for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (providing I get any
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Ok, I'll reply

These are the best deal sound quality price despite the price:

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/jvc-jvc-twin-system-in-ear-sound-isolating-headphones-ha-fxt90-black-ha-fxt90/10196752.aspx?path=28eea1c3fd529f993e5dd43fd9f79dacen02

Slightly mid centric, but the bass isn't recessed either. Balanced sound.


----------



## sti-06

I just purchased Ultrasone Pro 550 from amazon which will be used mainly for gaming and listening music time to time.
I am using onboard sound card for gaming so, should I get a DAC to be able to fully utilize this headphone on my PC?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> @ Simca
> 
> So I've been lurking this thread a couple pages back & decided to order the Ultrasone pro 550 due to ur high praises + addtl research on the net. I have a recon 3D sound card & was interested in utilizing the addtl features which was not possible with my G930. I game & watch alot of movies, occasionally listen to music (rock,rap,reggae)
> 
> My question is the amp included with the recon 3D enough to drive these heaphones or should I invest in an amplifier?
> 
> Thanks.....audio noob


Don't need amplification for Pro 550s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> aww I guess no one wants to help me buy my birthday present all I need is your
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Monster Turbines?


They're OK and if you can get them 50% off then they're a good buy. There are still other headphones in the price range to consider alternatively, unfortunately I don't remember your budget.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexypirates*
> 
> Am I doing to need a sub for this?


It'll drive the P153s well enough and whether you need a sub depends on how much you want to spend, what sound you're hoping to achieve from it and what kind of music you listen to.

I would recommend a sub for movies, orchestral music, electronica and genre's with bass such as hip-hop.

If you're into classical, rock, metal..emo..mostly bassless genres of music, you can do without a subwoofer.

I will say though, that you don't realize how much you're missing in music until you hear and feel sub 60 hz.


----------



## golfergolfer

Well I have been thought the Future Shop site and looked at what looks like decent ones to me and I have a little list below:

$99.99 - JVC Twin System (HA-FXT90)
$109.99 - Klipsch Image S4
$179.99 - Bowers & Wilkins C5
$179.99 - Monster Turbine
$199.99 - Sony Armature (XBA2)

Now at the moment the Sony are a bit out of my range and the turbines and C5's are a bit above but hopefully I can get a deal somewhere (Price Match FTW).
So out of these 5 can anyone rank them for me or suggest any? Thanks alot


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Well I have been thought the Future Shop site and looked at what looks like decent ones to me and I have a little list below:
> 
> $99.99 - JVC Twin System (HA-FXT90)
> $109.99 - Klipsch Image S4
> $179.99 - Bowers & Wilkins C5
> $179.99 - Monster Turbine
> $199.99 - Sony Armature (XBA2)
> 
> Now at the moment the Sony are a bit out of my range and the turbines and C5's are a bit above but hopefully I can get a deal somewhere (Price Match FTW).
> So out of these 5 can anyone rank them for me or suggest any? Thanks alot


The Klipsch Image S4, B&W C5, and Monster Turbine all have exaggerated bass, like 15 dB boosted with some varying amounts of rolloff and bleed into the midrange. The JVC HA-FXT90 has some midbass-centered boost and thus a warm tilt, but it's not as much and probably more tasteful.

The Sony are a dual balanced-armature design, so a bad match unless you have a dedicated headphone amp or source with low output impedance. These also supposedly have some bass enhancement, but it's a balanced-armature model and probably positioned where they wouldn't tune it to be excessive.

I would go out on a limb and guess the JVC HA-FXT90, but I haven't heard these. Please defer to those who have.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> The Klipsch Image S4, B&W C5, and Monster Turbine all have exaggerated bass, like 15 dB boosted with some varying amounts of rolloff and bleed into the midrange. The JVC HA-FXT90 has some midbass-centered boost and thus a warm tilt, but it's not as much and probably more tasteful.
> The Sony are a dual balanced-armature design, so a bad match unless you have a dedicated headphone amp or source with low output impedance. These also supposedly have some bass enhancement, but it's a balanced-armature model and probably positioned where they wouldn't tune it to be excessive.
> I would go out on a limb and guess the JVC HA-FXT90, but I haven't heard these. Please defer to those who have.


Thanks so much for your answer! I must say I am looking toward a bit more of a bass but I dont want it to get too much in the way. Has anyone tried the JVC before? Rep+

But other comments are still very helpful as I am still in the market


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sexypirates*
> 
> I hear you, I listen to a lot of R&B with phat beats, so have been doing research on a subwoofer.
> I know you recommend the Dayton 1200's @ the $120 range, and am not quite comfy shelling out over $600 for a quality subwoofer.
> Is there a middle-ground that you would get yourself/recommend? Or would saving up and getting a "real" subwoofers be the best option?


Once you get the "real" deal, you'll never go back.









Seriously though, the differences can be marginal and performance depends a lot on the room (hence why I prefer subwoofers with tweakability).


----------



## jagz

Hey guys, I've read the recommended list and all but wanted to ask a question.

Neighbor wants a 5.1 system (for PC)

Now, IDK.. Couldn't we just put together a nice 2.1 system? It is a small room anyway.

Dayton Audio CCS-33B 3-Way Center Channel Speaker Black $50
Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Monitor Series Powered Subwoofer $90
Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Pair $40

Wouldn't that do? and if we wanted to make it 5.1.. Add another pair of speakers and a reciever, correct?


----------



## jackofhearts495

Just ordered a pair of Alesis M1 Active 520's. Can't wait to try them out.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Don't need amplification for Pro 550s.


Thanks, the sound card is pushing them pretty well. Very pleased with the buy & they look really sexy too.


----------



## NovaNab

Anyone know if the new Swans D1080 IV are better than the D1080MKII 08's ? I am not so sure since D1080MKII 08 is priced more expensively. Also was wondering if anyone knows where I could buy the Swans in europe? I am really desperate since i cannot find them in any of the online stores in the country i live in (switzerland). Please help me out guys!


----------



## cdoublejj

as of this post the "AKG D-5 Mic" is a 100 dollar mic.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> as of this post the "AKG D-5 Mic" is a 100 dollar mic.


90 at best buy.


----------



## yezz12

Where can i buy the Dayton B652s in Europe?

Also, i need new headphones. 100-150 euro budget. 40% gaming, 60% rock/metal. Any suggestions? Fostex t50rp? AD-700s? I'll bse using them with my Xonar DG.


----------



## AscendSix

I got a Bose Companion 5 as a gift so to speak, it's worth around $400, are there better speakers with sub (Which there probably is) for better value and better quality? Or is it good enough. From what I've heard Bose just seem like a brand name lifestyle.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Incredibly good thread +rep.

Just thought to say though - I use my Z-5500's and have been extremely happy with them for over 3yrs









EPH-O2D should be mentioned next to the O2, as they are the same thing, but one is made in the UK the other in the US.
I do love my EPH-O2D with my Denon Ah-D2000's with lawton angle pads, d7k wire, d5k cups


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Incredibly good thread +rep.
> Just thought to say though - I use my Z-5500's and have been extremely happy with them for over 3yrs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EPH-O2D should be mentioned next to the O2, as they are the same thing, but one is made in the UK the other in the US.
> I do love my EPH-O2D with my Denon Ah-D2000's with lawton angle pads, d7k wire, d5k cups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Room seems a bit small for a z5500... love those headphones/stand, classy


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> Room seems a bit small for a z5500... love those headphones/stand, classy


haha thanks - but this is a uni room lol


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> Room seems a bit small for a z5500... love those headphones/stand, classy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha thanks - but this is a uni room lol
Click to expand...

We could tell by the closet like space to compute.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Just got my Alesis M1 Active 520's and I'm absolutely in love with them. Great recommendation. I just wish my better computer had better audio... I'm getting some buzzing from the integrated audio


----------



## osoirritable

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *osoirritable*
> 
> Is anyone using a sound blaster soundcard with an external usb dac e.g. listening to the stereo mix (named "what "u" hear" apparently by creative) into the DAC and thereby bypassing the soundblaster dac.
> I want to improve positional performance for headphone gaming by adding a soundblaster card to an e10 + dt 770 pro 80ohm pairing. As I'll be bypassing the dac on the soundblaster would I gain anything over an xtreme gamer\ music card by going titanium or titanium pro? Will adding the soundblaster improve positional audio in modern games on headphones at all? Any one have any experience of this kind of setup?
> Edit: Is the X-Fi MB2 any good?


If anyone is thinking of trying this it works perfectly with a Xifi Gamer. Presumably it would be the same with any xifi card as you use the same drivers.
1) Just set the creative card as the default device in the Playback section of the Sound Control Panel.
You want to configure it as 5.1 or 7.1 in windows but as headphones in X-Fi CMSS-3D.
2) In the Recording section go into the properties section of "What "U" Hear"
3) Select the "Listen" and select your DAC as the playback device.

And that's it. You get the positional sound processing of the XiFi with the audio quality of your choice of DAC. I can't really see a downside to it other than taking up a PCI slot. New an e10 plus Xifi Gamer will set you back around £80 second hand no more than £50. Bargain!
One caveat with the E10 is that the audio quality degrades if you use the volume control on the PC. If you leave it turned up on the PC it's basically transparent(see NwAvGuy's review). Not an issue for me as I'm used to leaving the foobar control alon when I use my amp and speakers. Note I'm using just using basic dt 770 pro 80s which are relatively easy to drive(never needed above 3/8 volume on low gain) and work well with the E10 low impedance. You're probably better off spending more on better headphones before you spend more on a DAC at this end of the market, then again if you have to drive high end headphones you would not pair them with an E10!


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *osoirritable*
> 
> One caveat with the E10 is that the audio quality degrades if you use the volume control on the PC.
> You're probably better off spending more on better headphones before you spend more on a DAC at this end of the market, then again if you have to drive high end headphones you would not pair them with an E10!


The OS volume control reduces bit depth.

Yes, at _any_ end of the market, DACs and amps are comparatively (key word) superfluous.


----------



## iARDAs

Asus ST is on my radar.

I wonder if it will be a nice upgrade over Creative XFI titanium.


----------



## BritishBob

Just ordered a Asus Xonar DG, student now so on a budget. For £26 and after seeing the reviews they seem good for a first timer. Got a pair of Trittons AX 720s, will be moving to a decent pair for PC cans when these die, but even after 2 years they are just the same as when I brought them, with a few extra scratches.

Should be here in 4-6 days. Just in time for the weekend and some decent testing.


----------



## PatrickCrowely

Great Guide...

+Rep!


----------



## Haruspex

Incredible guide +rep!

I have the realtek alc 888 and i was thinking for a long time now to replace it. Always in the past i was using dedicated sound cards but after the vista and creative driver fiasco i settled with on board audio.

Now i want to buy a dedicated sound card, this thread answered many questions i had and i tend towards a solution from asus.

Thing is my budget is kind of limited and i am in weird situation since i want a sound card that does good in almost everything. Not only music and gaming but also basic *mixing.*

Now i am not a professional by any means, i just do this purely as a hobby and for fan. I will bought an m-audio solution if i wanted to take things further.

Is the cheap asus xonar dg worth the upgrade or should i save and go for a better card like the creative tinanium or asus xonar dx?

The only thing that concerns me about the xonar cards is that they have a big input latency (or so i heard) and i don't know if this will affect me or not. I don't do any live recording, i just use a midi keyboard with programs like reason and flstudio.

If i want to categorize the card it would be 45% music 40% gaming and 15% mixing.

Also i want to buy a good set of headphones with similar characteristics. I will buy those later but i want to have some recommendations in my head now. From a research i did a while back i found the audio technica ath m35 to my liking but from the new info i found here it seems that they are more geared towards mixing and music and probably they would not be good for gaming.

So now i am looking (based on the recommendations on this thread) for the audio technica a700 for all around headphones for music/gaming and a very basic mixing, nothing professional as i said above. The only problem i have with these is that they are kind of expensive, i would prefer something at max 100 dollars.

Sorry for the long post, the subject about audio equipment has bothered me a long time and i want to make sure i will make the best possible choice with the budget at hand. It's time for me to replace my super cheap crap headphones and the onboard audio.


----------



## admflameberg

Yea you could get a Xonar DG for 23, but I just pm you about a deal I saw on amazon about another card, I wont post the link since some one would prolly run in and ninja the card from you. I put the link I was talking to in your PM.


----------



## iARDAs

Hey there Lady Simca

I am finally getting the new headphone in January and my budget increased. My in laws will be visiting my brother in law in SF hence i will be ordering a new headphone.

beyerdynamic DT 880 or Ultrasone Pro 750?

I have a creative xfi titanium for now but might be upgrading to the upcoming creative soundcard or one of the top of the lines Asus soundcards.

I game 90% of the time. I rarely listen to music.

I care about bass as I told you earlier few weeks back, and I also don't mind 3D surroind as my soundcard can do it.

Thanks.


----------



## rievhardt

I have an ASUS Xonar DSX on my PC.
I'm currently using a Creative Gigaworks T20 II 2.0 as a speaker.

here's my question:
1) how can I use SPDIF on my DSX? and does SPDIF bring better sound quality?
2) what speakers do you recommend for me to be able to fully utilize my soundcard?
3) also if I use a 5.1 speaker...would I be able to use the DTS feature?

TiA


----------



## Simca

Look at the DT990s


----------



## General Crumples

Do you think you could combine the 668b and the SR850? They are the exact same headphone with different designs and different impedence but the sound is identical.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> Do you think you could combine the 668b and the SR850? They are the exact same headphone with different designs and different impedence but the sound is identical.


Uh...different designs and different impedance = same headphone? Just the fact that they have different impedance tells me they have different drivers. They might sound similar but that doesn't make them the same headphone.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Look at the DT990s


I will thanks


----------



## jdip

Should I get the Beyer DT 990 250 or 600 ohm version to use with an Essence STX?


----------



## rocky11111

hey all, I was looking to buy a sound card here in a little, and for the Creative Titanium HD ( recommended at $130) does it still seem to be having the problem of going out after about a year ? Has that cleared up ?

if it hasn't I think I'll go with the $82 recommendation.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdip*
> 
> Should I get the Beyer DT 990 250 or 600 ohm version to use with an Essence STX?


You can run the 600 ohm version on the STX and can upgrade amps later if you feel the need.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Uh...different designs and different impedance = same headphone? Just the fact that they have different impedance tells me they have different drivers. They might sound similar but that doesn't make them the same headphone.


no, they are identical sounding. (at least from what everyone else says)

if anything, the samson is a bit more bassy because of higher clamping pressure


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> no, they are identical sounding. (at least from what everyone else says)
> if anything, the samson is a bit more bassy because of higher clamping pressure


so then they're different sounding.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocky11111*
> 
> hey all, I was looking to buy a sound card here in a little, and for the Creative Titanium HD ( recommended at $130) does it still seem to be having the problem of going out after about a year ? Has that cleared up ?
> if it hasn't I think I'll go with the $82 recommendation.


I second this as I am in the market for a sound card as well... Answer will be great









I also ask will a sound card ever become out dated or break? Yes of course after a while it will but for example can I get a asus stx now and have it as overkill but ready for "upgradeablity"? < is that even a word







Is that a bad thing to do? I hope you can understand where I am coming from will elaborate more if needed.


----------



## General Crumples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> so then they're different sounding.


its barely noticable.

they are identical sounding and people can't tell the difference


----------



## BritishBob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General Crumples*
> 
> its barely noticable.
> they are identical sounding and people can't tell the difference


These people will. I can tell you that now.


----------



## Jcoast

Hi Audiophiles.

My Dad needs a new pair of open can headphones under 100 dollars that are comfortable and fit around the ear. He Listens Primarily to rock (Rock like the grateful dead and Judas priest) So Needs headphones that have nice mids and highs. We were looking at some Gratos, but he doesn't like how the cups were flat like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/312vAcB1JsL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

He wants them more cupping your ear like this: http://www.dakmart.com/images/s-SEN9-RS160.jpg

Thanks.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jcoast*
> 
> Hi Audiophiles.
> My Dad needs a new pair of open can headphones under 100 dollars that are comfortable and fit around the ear. He Listens Primarily to rock (Rock like the grateful dead and Judas priest) So Needs headphones that have nice mids and highs. We were looking at some Gratos, but he doesn't like how the cups were flat like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/312vAcB1JsL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
> He wants them more cupping your ear like this: http://www.dakmart.com/images/s-SEN9-RS160.jpg
> Thanks.


These might be good for him - and affordable:
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/home-entertainment-headphones/mdr-ma500

I think the grados and these would share the same sound signature.
I've heard some grados, and borrowed the Sony's from a friend - they sounded very nice, very open (as you can imagine) and more so were quite smooth, with an emphasis on the mids.
Bass however, on both grados and the sony's won't be "rock standard" - I feel the bass will let you down on both models, ie. vs something like the sony XB700's, which are bass monsters, and maybe better suited to the rock genre.

But I doubt, your father will be wanting recessed mids, rolled off highs, and a HUGE emphasis on bass (XB700's)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BritishBob*
> 
> These people will. I can tell you that now.


If I were him I would get the lower impedance ones - that STX will be pushed at 600. Even my EPH-02D would be stretched to push that (even though it can).
My FA-002w's which are 200, have enough trouble as it is vs my Denon AH-D2000's (25ohms).

So get the lower version one, unless you have a PROPER amp, not a built in headphone amp, which goes into your PC...


----------



## snoball

So I am buying some cans in the next week.

ATH-M50 or VMODA Crossfade LP (The originals) (Not m-80)

Both are currently running $135.

I like bassier music, these will not be used for gaming at all. Will be used out and about, better isolation (~50-75% volume) is preferred.

I lean to the M50s right now, I just dig the simple look.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I love my HD598 but would love something with a little more presence in the low end. I'm leaning twords the Ultrasone HFI-780 or maybe the DT770.


----------



## iEATu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> So I am buying some cans in the next week.
> ATH-M50 or VMODA Crossfade LP (The originals) (Not m-80)
> Both are currently running $135.
> I like bassier music, these will not be used for gaming at all. Will be used out and about, better isolation (~50-75% volume) is preferred.
> I lean to the M50s right now, I just dig the simple look.


What kind of music do you listen to? I can tell you everything about the V-MODA Crossfade LP.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> So I am buying some cans in the next week.
> 
> ATH-M50 or VMODA Crossfade LP (The originals) (Not m-80)
> 
> Both are currently running $135.
> 
> I like bassier music, these will not be used for gaming at all. Will be used out and about, better isolation (~50-75% volume) is preferred.
> 
> I lean to the M50s right now, I just dig the simple look.


I'd also go with the M50s.


----------



## ohhgourami

Seeing the thread title, I was expecting you to mislead users with gimmicky "gaming" products, BUT you did a damn good job! Maybe mention that surround sound headphone/sets are garbage compared to quality stereo audiophile stuff and I say it's close to perfect.

Lots of RESPECT for your thread on informing most "gaming" oriented audio gear is complete garbage. Lots of respect in general! I bet you're a head-fier! No, you are absolutely a head-fier!









I wish more people on OCN would have more knowledge on audio, but I guess that's what this thread is for.


----------



## snoball

To the person who asked what I listen too.
Primarily liquid DnB. Some chiller dubstep like Blackmill and arkasia.

Go on youtube and find liquicity and MrSuicideSheep.


----------



## Bentz

So is the Titanium HD really the best card for positional audio? I play quite a few FPS games and I want the best positioning there is. However, I've heard a lot of people suggest the Xonar series over the Titanium cards.


----------



## iEATu

Creative chips provide the best game audio positioning.


----------



## Simca

Just reviewed the Shure 440s. They're somewhat comfortable, but not over time. The earpads are this weird plasticy leather stuff. Not the greatest, but not compeltely cheap. Bass is warmer and more present than other headphones. Lacks in the highs. Overall, worse performance for non-bassy music than Sonys. Not sure..what to say about that.. Build quality very good?


----------



## imusorka

Are there any decent, comfortable _on-ear_ headphones for $50-100?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imusorka*
> 
> Are there any decent, comfortable _on-ear_ headphones for $50-100?


Koss Porta Pros, Philips CitiScape Downtown, Grados SR80i, Audio Technica ANC1.


----------



## imusorka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Koss Porta Pros, Philips CitiScape Downtown, Grados SR80i, Audio Technica ANC1


Thank you so much! Never considered any of them. I wish Koss had the quality of Philips... How about Bass Effect Audio IV? Everyone is raving about their sound quality but they might not be comfortable.


----------



## Polarity

hey i recently want to go back to my xbox 360 but i dont have my turtle beach x31s anymore -,-

but i do have a hd650 and i just want to use them for halo 4... i was looking around people were recommending the astro mixaap and the TB DDS but then people also commented that
the mixamp isnt enough to drive them :/ can anyone help me i dont have any optical cable...just the RCs that came with the turtle beach x31s and the xbox360 any suggestions?

EDIT: my budget is around 200$~ ... give or take i dont want to spend so much X_X just for xbox360 i will only play halo 4 thats it i just want to play wtih my friends for a while then go back to PC...


----------



## snoball

http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352078086&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+digital+to+analog+audio+converter


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Hey guys thought id ask this here, whats better for a 2.1 set up for pretty much any kind of music passive or active? what would you guys recommend for a max budget $300 Aus?

And what sound card/DAC to use with speakers music only and Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 for gaming

Thanks


----------



## Seyumi

I read about 40 pages back but I'm still not sure what I should buy for gaming surround sound headphones.

I'm coming from a 5.1 Klipsh ProMedia Ultra but I will be in a situation where I will need a headset for 6-12 months and can't setup my speakers in surround.

I currently use Creative X-Fi Titanium HD but plan on upgrading to the new Creative Z series sound card which has its own dedicated headphone amp in the near future once they're released.

I game 95% of the time but I'm not a "pro gamer" I want good crisp clear SURROUND sound with huge explosions and not puny bass just so I can hear incoming "footsteps" better.

I literally have no budget. From reading the guide, I am leaning towards the Ultrasone Pro 900's or maybe even the 2900's. I DON'T want to sacrifice but I'm not about to upgrade to any dedicated external amps or anything. Can anyone recommend a better headset for what I'm looking for? I don't need a mic. I wish I was more experienced in this field but I'm not. Thanks.

EDIT: What about the Alienware Ozma 7? I have an Alienware rig so I'm thinking they might go well together. I'm guessing they're old and outdated now if I can find one? Seems to have been recommended from the guide.


----------



## iEATu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> To the person who asked what I listen too.
> Primarily liquid DnB. Some chiller dubstep like Blackmill and arkasia.
> Go on youtube and find liquicity and MrSuicideSheep.


Oh sorry, I have no idea how I missed your comment. Good thing I looked back.

I love listening to liquid DnB and dubstep too. For bass, I really thing the crossfade LP can't be beat. Or any of V-MODA's over-ear headphones actually. The impact and low rumbling you can feel is really great.

For dubstep it sounds amazing, but I found that for some tracks the sound gets muddy with lyrics. Depends on how complex the song is.

I found this equalizer setting to be the best. It keeps the bass, but clears up the highs and vocals.

Code:



Code:


32Hz:  +2.5 dB
64Hz:  +1
125Hz: +0.2
250Hz: +1.2
500Hz: -0.6
1KHz:  +1.2
2KHz:  +0.8
4KHz:  +3.6
8KHz:  +3.2
16KHz: +2.8

And then adjust the preamp until you don't hear distortion. But with higher highs it gets tiring to listen to too many songs like this.
That's why I love these headphones. Because I can listen to them forever for all my DnB, dubstep, and hardstyle songs without feeling fatigued. The bass thumps draws me into the music.


----------



## snoball

@iEATu

I tried out that EQ you recommended with my current headphones. Pretty much does exactly what you said, brings vocals in a bit more.

I tested it just now on Wut! by Project 46 and Mar!no (Good song). Emphasized the vocal sample being used and kept bass. Pretty nice setup really.

*What I most frequently listen to is more like this.*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFoDJ2uoKHs&feature=g-u-u

That EQ you posted sounds a bit harsh to me with this song. I saved it as I have some other songs I want to try.

This was on PC, now if only my phone allowed custom EQs







.

As for the headphones, I am leaning towards those Audio Technicas, sorry man. Seeing as I am beginning to hoard headphones, decided to start a collection, perhaps I'll grab some Crossfades next.

PS: I use JVC RX900s right now.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> I read about 40 pages back but I'm still not sure what I should buy for gaming surround sound headphones.
> I'm coming from a 5.1 Klipsh ProMedia Ultra but I will be in a situation where I will need a headset for 6-12 months and can't setup my speakers in surround.
> I currently use Creative X-Fi Titanium HD but plan on upgrading to the new Creative Z series sound card which has its own dedicated headphone amp in the near future once they're released.
> I game 95% of the time but I'm not a "pro gamer" I want good crisp clear SURROUND sound with huge explosions and not puny bass just so I can hear incoming "footsteps" better.
> I literally have no budget. From reading the guide, I am leaning towards the Ultrasone Pro 900's or maybe even the 2900's. I DON'T want to sacrifice but I'm not about to upgrade to any dedicated external amps or anything. Can anyone recommend a better headset for what I'm looking for? I don't need a mic. I wish I was more experienced in this field but I'm not. Thanks.
> EDIT: What about the Alienware Ozma 7? I have an Alienware rig so I'm thinking they might go well together. I'm guessing they're old and outdated now if I can find one? Seems to have been recommended from the guide.


I don't think any surround sound headphones actually sound good. Surround sound will come mostly from your sound card whatever algorithm the sound files use. Surround sound headphones will have multiple drivers per cup and will most definitely use low quality drivers. Just go with a good set of audiophile grade headphones! Know that footstep sounds aren't from bass frequencies unless everyone walks like an abomination; footstep sounds are more from the mid-range. If you want heavy bass, the Pro 900s is a pretty good choice, but the bass isn't as textured as nicer cans.

If you really have no budget, I'd just recommend the Beyerdynamic T1's, but they will need a good amp to drive.

Talking about amps, you probably don't need to "upgrade" a new sound card. I think you're better off with a dedicated external amp. The Pro 900s are really easy to drive.


----------



## Haruspex

I decided to buy an Asus Xonar DG, the question i have is that since this card is 5.1, can it do Dolby Headphone 7.1? I mean will i be able to hear the side left and side right channels on my headphones?

I assume it will, just asking to be sure.


----------



## iEATu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> I read about 40 pages back but I'm still not sure what I should buy for gaming surround sound headphones.
> I'm coming from a 5.1 Klipsh ProMedia Ultra but I will be in a situation where I will need a headset for 6-12 months and can't setup my speakers in surround.
> I currently use Creative X-Fi Titanium HD but plan on upgrading to the new Creative Z series sound card which has its own dedicated headphone amp in the near future once they're released.
> I game 95% of the time but I'm not a "pro gamer" I want good crisp clear SURROUND sound with huge explosions and not puny bass just so I can hear incoming "footsteps" better.
> I literally have no budget. From reading the guide, I am leaning towards the Ultrasone Pro 900's or maybe even the 2900's. I DON'T want to sacrifice but I'm not about to upgrade to any dedicated external amps or anything. Can anyone recommend a better headset for what I'm looking for? I don't need a mic. I wish I was more experienced in this field but I'm not. Thanks.
> EDIT: What about the Alienware Ozma 7? I have an Alienware rig so I'm thinking they might go well together. I'm guessing they're old and outdated now if I can find one? Seems to have been recommended from the guide.


If you want hard bass, but still want to hear footsteps, I think the pro 900 will do it for you. From what I heard, it has amazing bass, but is also bright sounding, almost to the point where it is too much for some. I would love to try to these headphones haha.
The surround sound on these is supposed to be pretty good, as long as you put them on properly. Although they arent as open as other headphones. But with so much bass that's what happens usually.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> @iEATu
> I tried out that EQ you recommended with my current headphones. Pretty much does exactly what you said, brings vocals in a bit more.
> I tested it just now on Wut! by Project 46 and Mar!no (Good song). Emphasized the vocal sample being used and kept bass. Pretty nice setup really.
> *What I most frequently listen to is more like this.*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFoDJ2uoKHs&feature=g-u-u
> That EQ you posted sounds a bit harsh to me with this song. I saved it as I have some other songs I want to try.
> This was on PC, now if only my phone allowed custom EQs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> As for the headphones, I am leaning towards those Audio Technicas, sorry man. Seeing as I am beginning to hoard headphones, decided to start a collection, perhaps I'll grab some Crossfades next.
> PS: I use JVC RX900s right now.


Yeah it is harsh with some songs. I usually keep it off if there arent any vocals. Sometimes there is a main melody in the song that I want to bring out more though and i use it. And also for rock music.
I really liked that DnB bass song song. I heard the first one before. Vocals are too repetitive for me









What phone do you use? If it's the iPhone, there are a few apps that are either free, or a dollar that let you organize the music into folders, edit the file, and adjust the EQ (recently with an update for the app I have).
Haha no problem. Tell me how you like the ath-m50 with that music once you get it. Are you choosing because of the looks?







V-MODAs are too flashy for some people. Although they fit me nicely.


----------



## Simca

T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*

Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.

As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*
> Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.
> As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.


is this really true? if you believe headroom's FR curve the T1's are more 'fun' than your DT880's. i'm not challenging your opinion, just genuinely asking.


----------



## golfergolfer

So I am looking at getting a headset, I have narrowed it down the the ATH-M50; however, I have also noticed the Pro700MK2's... Am I right in saying that these two sets are almost the same but the Pro's pack a bit more punch in the bass? Also I am interested in a sound card for my PC. I really don't want to spend too much as I am just getting into the audiophile stuff so I was looking at the ASUS Xonar DGX. Worth it? I plan on ordering this all very soon so your help will be greatly appreciated


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*
> Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.
> As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.


Ideally I'd recommend HE-6s, but they are hard to drive. You my find them boring too, but quality of the bass is one of the best. I just recommended the T1 because they seem like a good reference headphone. Good positioning of sound plus a more realistic sound signature.

If you're a basshead, I'm a bit surprised you recommended the HD800s as a flagship headphone.


----------



## LeClerc

hi all, just reg. here to ask for advice
i apologize in advance if this is answered

im looking to buy headphones first for FPS games
im from croatia and here most of headphones that i find at first page for gamer are overpriced a lot
but i found CAL! for cca 90 dolars and x-fi gamer (used) for 40 or Asus Xonar DG (new) for 40
problem for me(if i got it right) is that CAL! is more for music, more bass then "gamers" HS

so, my question is how would CAL! perform *in games* with one of listed sound card and which would suit it better? or maybe some other card ???
i would appreciate feedback from ppl that have/used that combo


----------



## Face76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Ideally I'd recommend HE-6s, but they are hard to drive. You my find them boring too, but quality of the bass is one of the best. I just recommended the T1 because they seem like a good reference headphone. Good positioning of sound plus a more realistic sound signature.
> If you're a basshead, I'm a bit surprised you recommended the HD800s as a flagship headphone.


Having heard the HE-6 and T1 back to back, I would*n't* call the HE-6 boring also. The HE-6 are difficult to drive compared to your average headphone, but can work well with a decent speaker amp.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Face76*
> 
> Having heard the HE-6 and T1 back to back, I would call the HE-6 boring also. The HE-6 are difficult to drive compared to your average headphone, but can work well with a decent speaker amp.


Difficult to drive, but sound amazing then they are properly driven - which is why I own a pair. I'm guessing LCD-2s would fit your taste more.


----------



## Face76

Sorry, corrected my typo. I also own the HE-6 and don't see myself getting rid of them anytime soon.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*
> Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.
> As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.
> 
> 
> 
> is this really true? if you believe headroom's FR curve the T1's are more 'fun' than your DT880's. i'm not challenging your opinion, just genuinely asking.
Click to expand...

I've never said the DT880s are fun. In fact, I've said numerous times they were neutral and boring. But they're also 1/6 of the price of T1's.

If I'm paying 6x more than DT880s, I'd hope they were a "little" more fun.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*
> Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.
> As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally I'd recommend HE-6s, but they are hard to drive. You my find them boring too, but quality of the bass is one of the best. I just recommended the T1 because they seem like a good reference headphone. Good positioning of sound plus a more realistic sound signature.
> 
> If you're a basshead, I'm a bit surprised you recommended the HD800s as a flagship headphone.
Click to expand...

I don't recommend HD800s. I can think of tons of headphones I'd rather have. I'd prefer the HE-6's over the T1's.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I don't recommend HD800s. I can think of tons of headphones I'd rather have. I'd prefer the HE-6's over the T1's.


But you do have them listed under your "Ultimate Gamer" headphone section...


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I got a question for anyone that knows, has anyone heard of the SKYTEC
SHFS10W Subwoofer? or know of any cheap subs in Aus, most are at minimum $350 -_-

Thanks


----------



## Face76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> But you do have them listed under your "Ultimate Gamer" headphone section...


Because they do sound nice and have a good following. Depending on your personal preference, they can sound a little overly detailed, so I can see how some don't like them. Friends who have heard the HD700 and HD800 claim the HD700 is a little warmer sounding, I'd like to give them a listen.


----------



## golfergolfer

So I am getting the ATH-M50 I would also like to get a sound card... I am interested in the Asus Xonar Essence STX but is it worth it to be spending just as much on a sound card as I would be on the headphones? If not could someone please recommend me a sound card? I will be listening to music and gaming, 75%-25% respectfully. Max budget is the Essence STX. Also another reason why I like the STX is because it has the white and red (rca is it?) ports out meaning I could connect it to my home theatre system, and it has the headphone amp.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> T1's suuuuuuuuuuck *High pitched voice!*
> Too neutral. Too boring. Would never spend that much money on neutrality.
> As a basshead the T1s aren't the headphone to go for either.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> is this really true? if you believe headroom's FR curve the T1's are more 'fun' than your DT880's. i'm not challenging your opinion, just genuinely asking.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I've never said the DT880s are fun. In fact, I've said numerous times they were neutral and boring. But they're also 1/6 of the price of T1's.
> If I'm paying 6x more than DT880s, I'd hope they were a "little" more fun.
> I don't recommend HD800s. I can think of tons of headphones I'd rather have. I'd prefer the HE-6's over the T1's.


First of all:
Don't trust FR graphs to determine the sound signature - sure it might help understand how it could sound, but it is not only when you put it on your ears that you can really determine what the traits of the headphones are.

As for the T1 being boring -> yeah it probably is, and I disagree with "If I'm paying 6x more I want something to sound more fun" - No, usually audiophiles, or people paying that amount of money want the most "boring sounding" headphone money can buy. (agreed if you were a basshead, you wouldn't want to buy a neutral sounding headphone)

Why?
because "boring" is defined as neutral. I myself can't see myself spending that much,a s I want something with a little thump and sparkle (lows and highs) - audiophiles, will want something as near to the "0" as possible. The flatter the better. As this is how the music "should" sound, and not be tamed in anyway shape or form.

Long story short: It might not be fun, but it could well be the more accurate sound you might hear.
I don't have experience with the T1, nor the Beyers, but just speaking from experience - that's what I hear, and see when i look at FR graphs, and when I actually listen to the headphones -> closer you are to a flat response, the more boring it will sound, but the better it will sound with the right gear.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> So I am getting the ATH-M50 I would also like to get a sound card... I am interested in the Asus Xonar Essence STX but is it worth it to be spending just as much on a sound card as I would be on the headphones? If not could someone please recommend me a sound card? I will be listening to music and gaming, 75%-25% respectfully. Max budget is the Essence STX. Also another reason why I like the STX is because it has the white and red (rca is it?) ports out meaning I could connect it to my home theatre system, and it has the headphone amp.


well the STX might be an overkill, depending on your use for it.
You mentioned your sound system - so it could well be worth it.

You could look lower down the line of the xonar range too.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I've never said the DT880s are fun. In fact, I've said numerous times they were neutral and boring. But they're also 1/6 of the price of T1's.
> If I'm paying 6x more than DT880s, I'd hope they were a "little" more fun.


ah gotcha, i made a presumption about your views on the DT880's. should have gone back and read your review of them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> First of all:
> Don't trust FR graphs to determine the sound signature - sure it might help understand how it could sound, but it is not only when you put it on your ears that you can really determine what the traits of the headphones are.


i'm aware of this, but it's the most indicative metric for someone who hasn't heard the headphones. i've never listened to the 880's or the T1's hence my question about them and not an all-out statement of fact.


----------



## Porter_

HD650's vs HE-400's

i'd appreciate recommendations between these. i'm looking for a new set of headphones for gaming*, acoustic folk/rock, indie folk/rock. *'immersive experience' over competitive edge. i play a ton of FPS games but value immersion over positional audio. equally value music listening.

budget is $300~$350. mostly looking at used headphones on head-fi, OCN, Amazon and ebay.

current setup is Titanium HD > O2 amp, potentially ODAC > O2 in the near future.

edit: spent the better part of last night and _way_ too many hours at work today reading up on these (as much as reading about headphones can tell you). went with the HD650's for various reasons, doesn't seem like either would be a bad choice for my tastes.


----------



## Biorganic

I really enjoyed all the information in this thread, thanks for all the work.









I am contemplating going from alc898 integrated sound to a Xonar DG + Samson SR850s. Is this a reasonable entry level combo for gaming/music? How comfortable are these headphones? I already have Klipsch promedia 2.1. I was also looking at the Superlux HD668Bs and found that they are basically the same as the Samsons. Any tangible difference?

Thanks


----------



## LeClerc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LeClerc*
> 
> hi all, just reg. here to ask for advice
> i apologize in advance if this is answered
> im looking to buy headphones first for FPS games
> im from croatia and here most of headphones that i find at first page for gamer are overpriced a lot
> but i found CAL! for cca 90 dolars and x-fi gamer (used) for 40 or Asus Xonar DG (new) for 40
> problem for me(if i got it right) is that CAL! is more for music, more bass then "gamers" HS
> so, my question is how would CAL! perform *in games* with one of listed sound card and which would suit it better? or maybe some other card ???
> i would appreciate feedback from ppl that have/used that combo


sry for bumpi
wanna buy headphones(old one is broken) but its just to hard for me to buy "blind"


----------



## Biorganic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biorganic*
> 
> I really enjoyed all the information in this thread, thanks for all the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am contemplating going from alc898 integrated sound to a Xonar DG + Samson SR850s. Is this a reasonable entry level combo for gaming/music? How comfortable are these headphones? I already have Klipsch promedia 2.1. I was also looking at the Superlux HD668Bs and found that they are basically the same as the Samsons. Any tangible difference?
> 
> Thanks


Also looking at the Audio-technica ATH-M30. Definitely torn on what set of cans to get... I know this is probably stupid debating between 50$ sets, but I am completely newb at audio. Will the listed headphones sound well on the DG?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> HD650's vs HE-400's
> 
> i'd appreciate recommendations between these. i'm looking for a new set of headphones for gaming*, acoustic folk/rock, indie folk/rock. *'immersive experience' over competitive edge. i play a ton of FPS games but value immersion over positional audio. equally value music listening.
> 
> budget is $300~$350. mostly looking at used headphones on head-fi, OCN, Amazon and ebay.
> 
> current setup is Titanium HD > O2 amp, potentially ODAC > O2 in the near future.
> 
> edit: spent the better part of last night and _way_ too many hours at work today reading up on these (as much as reading about headphones can tell you). went with the HD650's for various reasons, doesn't seem like either would be a bad choice for my tastes.


Both are good headphones. If you're not going to mod the HD650s, they're inferior. The HD650s can be modded to be excellent headphones, but out of the box, they're not too amazing. So consider this before buying. Some people prefer the HD650s over the HE-400s when they're modded. The HE-400s are simple, great out of the box with no mods needed and are easier to drive than HD650s. HE-400s bass is better than HD650s. Both headphones are darker headphones. I think the HD650s are even darker than HE-400s iirc.

Both are good headphones, can't go wrong with either, but the HD650s do need modification to be better than HE-400s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biorganic*
> 
> I really enjoyed all the information in this thread, thanks for all the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am contemplating going from alc898 integrated sound to a Xonar DG + Samson SR850s. Is this a reasonable entry level combo for gaming/music? How comfortable are these headphones? I already have Klipsch promedia 2.1. I was also looking at the Superlux HD668Bs and found that they are basically the same as the Samsons. Any tangible difference?
> 
> Thanks


One of the best entry level setups IMO. If the SR850s aren't comfortable enough, you can buy the AKG K240 velour ear pads for them.

Also, dubbed, I disagree with you. Being an audiophile doesn't mean you're seeking a neutral headphone. It doesn't mean that you WANT perfect zero. It doesn't mean you want a neutral headphone. Audiophilia is all about getting the best sound possible and that ultimately depends on your taste. It doesn't have to do with what the artist intended. That's why tube amps are great. They add warmth and thick syrupy bass. The notes are heavier and don't sound tinny. People say tubes are distortion and take you away from what the artist intended or aren't perfect or whatever stupid comments people want to make. Truth is a tube amp sounds fantastic (good ones anyway). They make music sound great (if you're into the sound they produce). Who cares if a headphone is neutral if it's boring.

Neutral headphones are for analyzing music, not enjoying it. Can you enjoy music on neutral headphones? Yeah, but there are headphones that are more enjoyable available.

I prefer high end planar headphones because you can get some really good bass out of them while having excellent instrument separation and highs that aren't fatiguing or sibilant. LCD-3s have GREAT bass compared to many high end headphones. The HD800s are the first one's that come to mind. T1s too.

Anyway, that's my


----------



## Biorganic

Thank you for your response, So should I go with the Samson sr850s, Superlux HD668Bs, or the Audio-technica ATH-M30. I am unsure whether the bass on the 668bs will be non-existent or just lighter than what bass-heavy cans would provide. Also what is sound quality/ positional cues/ bass like on the ATH-m30. I heard the M30 is pretty comfy.

Thanks again. +rep


----------



## Simca

The Samson SR850 is the best choice. The M30 is not the appropriate choice here.


----------



## Biorganic

Sounds good to me, Thanks again.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Both are good headphones. If you're not going to mod the HD650s, they're inferior. The HD650s can be modded to be excellent headphones, but out of the box, they're not too amazing. So consider this before buying. Some people prefer the HD650s over the HE-400s when they're modded. The HE-400s are simple, great out of the box with no mods needed and are easier to drive than HD650s. HE-400s bass is better than HD650s. Both headphones are darker headphones. I think the HD650s are even darker than HE-400s iirc.
> Both are good headphones, can't go wrong with either, but the HD650s do need modification to be better than HE-400s.


appreciate your thoughts Simca. which mods have you performed on your HD650's? the trigger has already been pulled on them so i've done all the considering i need to


----------



## Simca

http://www.head-fi.org/t/561234/sennheiser-hd-650-mod-compilation

Before you mod away, make sure you know what each mod does as you may not like the finish product if you don't see how each mods changes the sound.


----------



## Porter_

thanks for the link. i was aware of the coin hole mod and foam mod but not the others. seriously doubt i'll mod them, but i bookmarked the page for the hell of it. have you personally done any of those?


----------



## golfergolfer

Is there anything else like the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface Sound Card? I am looking for a USB sound card (ITX) and this suits my needs perfectly I think... My goal is to have sound from my PC going into it then I will be able to listen to my headphones coming out and I have the RCA (i think) ports out. Is this a good option or is it too good to be true?

EDIT: LOL so I went on NCIX to look for this card and here are my findings:

First thought ok good NCIX has it easy pick up reasonable price I think:


Click on the link this shows up, exactly how it is supposed to be:


But then all of a sudden it changes to this:


Not sure if it is one super expensive card or it got a crazy markup some how or just a glitch because it still says $99 before going in and just as you go in


----------



## Zcuron

So, as a newbie who only has experience with a siberia v2 headset, I have sought help from this guide in search of unknown lands~~
As I don't know what to expect, I'm trying to keep my expectations down, but this will presumably be an upgrade.

Things I want to hear: (in order of importance)
1. Music (a bit of everything, stuff like this: {-1-} {-2-} {-3-} {-4-} {-5-})
2. Video (movies//series)
3. Games; Dota 2, [long list of MMO's], BF3.

Things I want to capture:
1. My voice.
2. Guitar?

From the guide, I have extracted the following:
Fostex T50RP (it said something about an amp, presumably the sound card will provide power...?)
AntLion ModMic (how is this for capturing an acoustic guitar?)
Asus Xonar DX ---OR--- Asus Essence ST/X (I have no interest in BF:BC2)

Are these choices mistaken for the purpose I wish them to serve?
Any words of advice you would be willing to throw my way would be appreciated.

Lastly, I wish to extend my appreciation for the time, thought, and other resources you have spent in the making of this guide.

Thank you.


----------



## Simca

I wouldn't record with the AntLion ModMic. I would spend more for a better mic. If your budget for a mic is 40, I'd go with the Samson Go Mic instead. If you can spend more do so.

The T50RP's are good, but you should get an amp if you decide to go for it. Should look into modifying the T50RPs as well.

The Planar aspect of the T50RP's should make instrument separation great for orchestral music. They should provide enough bass for Orchestral and voice should also be enjoyable.

I'd say grab the STX if you want a sound card and amp in one.

Also, I don't mod/create things. I have my minions do it for me.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Is there anything else like the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface Sound Card? I am looking for a USB sound card (ITX) and this suits my needs perfectly I think... My goal is to have sound from my PC going into it then I will be able to listen to my headphones coming out and I have the RCA (i think) ports out. Is this a good option or is it too good to be true?
> EDIT: LOL so I went on NCIX to look for this card and here are my findings:
> First thought ok good NCIX has it easy pick up reasonable price I think:
> 
> Click on the link this shows up, exactly how it is supposed to be:
> 
> But then all of a sudden it changes to this:
> 
> Not sure if it is one super expensive card or it got a crazy markup some how or just a glitch because it still says $99 before going in and just as you go in


I would spend the extra money and get the Audioengine D1. it's small, USB DAC, pre-amp, headphone amp.

http://www.redmall.ca/audioengine-d1-24-bit-computer-interface.html


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Also, I don't mod/create things. I have my minions do it for me.


is this in response to my question above about the HD650's? i'm asking if you've personally listened to the HD650's with any of the mods you linked me to.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Also, I don't mod/create things. I have my minions do it for me.
> 
> 
> 
> is this in response to my question above about the HD650's? i'm asking if you've personally listened to the HD650's with any of the mods you linked me to.
Click to expand...

Yes, listened to them unmodded and with the foam, pad and headband mod (not the wood mod).

Just be careful that you might change the signature in a way you may not like for instance the pad mod makes them brighter sounding when it's originally a dark headphone.


----------



## Porter_

appreciate the feedback. since i have your attention, do you game with your O2/ODAC? if so any thoughts on the ODAC compared to a soundcard (minus losing features like CMSS3D etc.)? i'm looking to ditch my Titanium HD for the ODAC since i don't care for features like CMSS-3D or Crystalizer. the ODAC is relatively cheap and i'm on board with NwAvGuy's philosophy.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> appreciate the feedback. since i have your attention, do you game with your O2/ODAC? if so any thoughts on the ODAC compared to a soundcard (minus losing features like CMSS3D etc.)? i'm looking to ditch my Titanium HD for the ODAC since i don't care for features like CMSS-3D or Crystalizer. the ODAC is relatively cheap and i'm on board with NwAvGuy's philosophy.


if you really want to blow away your Titanium HD don't buy the ODAC. NwAvGuy's magic lies in the O2 Amp not the ODAC.


----------



## mikeaj

Assuming you're not dying for another slot on the mobo and the Creative drivers aren't treating you poorly, I don't see much motivation to get the ODAC, if you say you are on board with that philosophy. If you were to run the Ti HD through NwAvGuy's benchmarking routine, I'm sure it would turn up mostly beyond the "doesn't matter, beyond audibility" threshold lines he has. If that's what you're going for, you're probably already there.

Save up for new headphones or whatever else you want.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the only thing more important than the source is a speaker or headphone.. if you want to upgrade your DAC spend $500. you got Wyred4Sound, Peachtree, Schiit, Halide, M2Tech, Musical Paradise, Audio-GD, Musical Fidelity to name a few. if you don't mind used electronics.. there is a CEntrance Dacmini CX and Wavelength Proton for $550 on Audiogon.


----------



## iandroo888

is it me or does the headphone's category not have a music section other than the bass/rock/heavy metal one? D: tryin to find a mid range music/game headphone suggestions $50 - 100 range


----------



## bumblebee1980

Samson SR850, Creative Aurvana Live?

I know quite a bit about the Samson and I used to own a pair of Denon D1001 back in the day and they were definitely not $70. fun headphone. I like Fostex drivers.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I would spend the extra money and get the Audioengine D1. it's small, USB DAC, pre-amp, headphone amp.
> http://www.redmall.ca/audioengine-d1-24-bit-computer-interface.html


Hmm this would be a good option however I cannot find another place but Amazon to order it (which I cannot do). And according to you I also live in Cybertron aka Canada







so I would be able to pick up the creative in store. Is it a bad option though?


----------



## daydream99

How do the equation rp 21 compare to hd 280 and sr60s?


----------



## iandroo888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Samson SR850, Creative Aurvana Live?
> I know quite a bit about the Samson and I used to own a pair of Denon D1001 back in the day and they were definitely not $70. fun headphone. I like Fostex drivers.


samson SR850 vs JAC HARX900's

someone suggested the JVC's in some other thread. whats diff?

SR850s - 10Hz - 30kHz frequency & 32Ω impedance
HARX900 - 7Hz - 26kHz frequency & 64Ω Impedance


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Hmm this would be a good option however I cannot find another place but Amazon to order it (which I cannot do). And according to you I also live in Cybertron aka Canada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so I would be able to pick up the creative in store. Is it a bad option though?


I do a lot of importing. eBay, Head-Fi Buy/Sell/Trade section and sometimes HiFi stores will take wire or money order.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Audioengine-D1-Premium-24-Bit-DAC-/140881922209?pt=US_Computer_Speakers&hash=item20cd3788a1&_uhb=1#ht_3798wt_1397
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iandroo888*
> 
> samson SR850 vs JAC HARX900's
> someone suggested the JVC's in some other thread. whats diff?
> SR850s - 10Hz - 30kHz frequency & 32Ω impedance
> HARX900 - 7Hz - 26kHz frequency & 64Ω Impedance


I would go with the Samson.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> appreciate the feedback. since i have your attention, do you game with your O2/ODAC? if so any thoughts on the ODAC compared to a soundcard (minus losing features like CMSS3D etc.)? i'm looking to ditch my Titanium HD for the ODAC since i don't care for features like CMSS-3D or Crystalizer. the ODAC is relatively cheap and i'm on board with NwAvGuy's philosophy.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> if you really want to blow away your Titanium HD don't buy the ODAC. NwAvGuy's magic lies in the O2 Amp not the ODAC.


I have the eph o2d, and it blows my xonar dx.
I have the eph connected via usb, thus use it separately, uniquely for headphones. Whereas listening with headphones via my xonar, even with eq, sounds terrible.

And yes, the eph is the UK version of the objective.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iandroo888*
> 
> is it me or does the headphone's category not have a music section other than the bass/rock/heavy metal one? D: tryin to find a mid range music/game headphone suggestions $50 - 100 range


Bass heavy and affordable:
Sony XB range


----------



## bumblebee1980

I have no doubt it's better. I REALLY don't like sound cards. I just think saving your money so you can buy something even better is the way to go.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have no doubt it's better. I REALLY don't like sound cards. I just think saving your money so you can buy something even better is the way to go.


I'm confused.
Save your money for what instead then? I mean audio related?


----------



## bumblebee1980

yes. there are better implementations of ESS chips. i'm using one!


----------



## jellybeans69

DT770 vs DT990 for pop/dnb/dubstep? Which one to choose? Other options are Technics RP-DH 1200 , KRK KNS 8400, Allen & Heath Xone XD-53. Mostly for music.


----------



## bumblebee1980

when I think of Electronic music I think of Ultrasone. Denon D600 is another option. I think DIYMicro.com has them for $339.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> if you really want to blow away your Titanium HD don't buy the ODAC. NwAvGuy's magic lies in the O2 Amp not the ODAC.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have no doubt it's better. I REALLY don't like sound cards. I just think saving your money so you can buy something even better is the way to go.


i don't see myself paying over $300 for a 'strictly DAC' device (e.g. HRT Music Streamer II +, etc.). at least not until i get restless again with my setup








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I have the eph o2d, and it blows my xonar dx.
> I have the eph connected via usb, thus use it separately, uniquely for headphones. Whereas listening with headphones via my xonar, even with eq, sounds terrible.
> And yes, the eph is the UK version of the objective.


did you compare the EPH-O2D against the Xonar DX + O2 amp (just a change in the DAC)? your experience is interesting, i don't expect to hear a dramatic difference in my case. a subtle difference if any at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Assuming you're not dying for another slot on the mobo and the Creative drivers aren't treating you poorly, I don't see much motivation to get the ODAC, if you say you are on board with that philosophy. If you were to run the Ti HD through NwAvGuy's benchmarking routine, I'm sure it would turn up mostly beyond the "doesn't matter, beyond audibility" threshold lines he has. If that's what you're going for, you're probably already there.
> Save up for new headphones or whatever else you want.


appreicate your thoughts mike. i don't need to free up a slot on my mobo and the creative drivers have been fine for me. i'm just restless with my setup and looking for a change. the rationale for the ODAC (beyond believing in the philosophy) is it's a cheep 'upgrade'. figure i can pick up a used ODAC for $100-$120, sell my Ti HD for $75-$90. but if i'm going to hear no difference at all, there's no point. new headphones are en route.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> i don't see myself paying over $300 for a 'strictly DAC' device (e.g. HRT Music Streamer II +, etc.). at least not until i get restless again with my setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you compare the EPH-O2D against the Xonar DX + O2 amp (just a change in the DAC)? your experience is interesting, i don't expect to hear a dramatic difference in my case. a subtle difference if any at all.
> appreicate your thoughts mike. i don't need to free up a slot on my mobo and the creative drivers have been fine for me. i'm just restless with my setup and looking for a change. the rationale for the ODAC (beyond believing in the philosophy) is it's a cheep 'upgrade'. figure i can pick up a used ODAC for $100-$120, sell my Ti HD for $75-$90. but if i'm going to hear no difference at all, there's no point. new headphones are en route.


hey man!

Well I did the following:
DX/D1 (I have both on 2 separate PC's) - yes they are the same thing:

1. DX to EPH, via analogue, gave a good sound, but the DX's config made it so that the headphones (D2000's with D5k cup and d7k wire) would not sound great, although acceptable.

2. Direct into the DX - the sound was dry, boring and not exciting (this is with and without EQ'ing of the DX)

3. Direct into the EPH via USB (DAC) - amazing sound quality - new reference sound comparing for me.
To review earphones and headphones, I know plug it into the EPH-O2D, use its DAC functionalities, and create a review.


----------



## iandroo888

anyone oppose the combination of the Samson SR850 to be used with a Behringer UAC202 ? plannin to get the behringer to use with future speakers (M-Audio AV40's)


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> appreciate the feedback. since i have your attention, do you game with your O2/ODAC? if so any thoughts on the ODAC compared to a soundcard (minus losing features like CMSS3D etc.)? i'm looking to ditch my Titanium HD for the ODAC since i don't care for features like CMSS-3D or Crystalizer. the ODAC is relatively cheap and i'm on board with NwAvGuy's philosophy.


The ODAC sucks for gaming. Step back from even the Xonar DX without any settings on. I'm not a competitive gamer though, so I have no need for a sound card for gaming.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The ODAC sucks for gaming. Step back from even the Xonar DX without any settings on. I'm not a competitive gamer though, so I have no need for a sound card for gaming.


wait what?
For headphones? How are you plugging it in and how?

For gaming for me it is absolutely amazing - even double amping it with the ZO2 - brings out the bass - BF3 + EPH-O2D + ZO2v3 (optional) + D2K = dream


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The ODAC sucks for gaming. Step back from even the Xonar DX without any settings on. I'm not a competitive gamer though, so I have no need for a sound card for gaming.


i'm surprised you have such a strong opinion on it, i figured you'd say something like 'six of one half a dozen of the other'. can you expound on this anymore? i would have guessed the difference was minimal between the ODAC and a soundcard with the gaming features disabled. what in particular is worse about the ODAC?


----------



## Simca

ODAC gives zero advantage in gaming. It's exactly like on board when it comes to gaming.

Only good for music.

ODAC+O2 Amp combo with modifications.

Yes, with headphones.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> ODAC gives zero advantage in gaming. It's exactly like on board when it comes to gaming.
> Only good for music.
> ODAC+O2 Amp combo with modifications.
> Yes, with headphones.


ODAC gives a better depth of the game - your argument is almost like saying on-board > soundcard when it comes to gaming.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> ODAC gives zero advantage in gaming. It's exactly like on board when it comes to gaming.
> Only good for music.


just trying to get a better understanding of this.

i leave CMSS-3D, Crystalizer, EAX, and EQ disabled in the audio control panel. i figured with these features disabled i was using my Ti HD essentially as a DAC only. is there some additional audio processing being performed that i'm not aware of which aides gaming? i run in 'game mode' but i don't hear a difference when swapping to audio creation or entertainment mode (all features disabled, respectively). i figured each Mode was distinguished only by the software DSP's available like CMSS-3D etc. i don't see how my Ti HD with these features disabled is any better than the next DAC from a gaming perspective.

i originally asked the question of ODAC vs soundcard from a 'any quirks or oddities' stance. i didn't expect to hear of real, tangible differences in gaming performance when the 'gaming' features are disabled.


----------



## Simca

Don't know how to explain it to you. Sound cards are better for gaming with everything disabled. There has to be something that's changing the audio or some kind of installed software for the soundcard. I have no idea what the answer is. All I can tell you is there's a night and day difference.

Let's be clear here. Adding "depth" to the game because of immersiveness, brilliant sound complexity and sound articulation(clarity/instrument separation) doesn't mean you have an advantage in gaming. In that respect, the ODAC is the same as on board when it comes to advantages and competitive gaming.


----------



## gadget_lova

Hi, I'm looking to buy Ultrasone Pro 550.
But is it not needed headphone amp? Because people in hi-fi forum suggest that any headphone with impedance level above 32 Ohm need a headphone amp for it to sound good.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Don't know how to explain it to you. Sound cards are better for gaming with everything disabled. There has to be something that's changing the audio or some kind of installed software for the soundcard. I have no idea what the answer is. All I can tell you is there's a night and day difference.
> Let's be clear here. Adding "depth" to the game because of immersiveness, brilliant sound complexity and sound articulation(clarity/instrument separation) doesn't mean you have an advantage in gaming. In that respect, the ODAC is the same as on board when it comes to advantages and competitive gaming.


but due to having depth, the sound, sounds better...has more width....feels more "3D"....No one said anything about having an advantage or anything in gaming.
Do you own the ODAC out of interest?
If so - what soundcard are you comparing it to?


----------



## bumblebee1980

I like gaming with a DAC. Dolby Headphone makes everything sound so distant and artificial.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking to buy Ultrasone Pro 550.
> But is it not needed headphone amp? Because people in hi-fi forum suggest that any headphone with impedance level above 32 Ohm need a headphone amp for it to sound good.


Ultrasone headphones benefit well from amplifiers. the Ultrasone Pro 750 velour ear pads will fit the Pro 550 model. I suggest buying a pair.


----------



## gadget_lova

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I like gaming with a DAC. Dolby Headphone makes everything sound so distant and artificial.
> Ultrasone headphones benefit well from amplifiers. the Ultrasone Pro 750 velour ear pads will fit the Pro 550 model. I suggest buying a pair.


If that is so, could you recommend a good entry level desktop headphone amp for me? I plan to take Fiio E9, but I'm still not sure.

Isn't Earpads only affect comfort? Will it be a big difference if I switch the existing earpads for the velour ear pads?

Thanks in advance..


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> If that is so, could you recommend a good entry level desktop headphone amp for me? I plan to take Fiio E9, but I'm still not sure.
> Isn't Earpads only affect comfort? Will it be a big difference if I switch the existing earpads for the velour ear pads?
> Thanks in advance..


the Fiio output impedance is 10 ohms so it wouldn't be a good choice. if you already have a source I would probably go with the O2 Amp http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full if you don't have a source you can get the O2 Amp with the ODAC http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=48

you don't have to buy them right away. if you find the stock pleather pads get too hot and sweaty the velour pads should be a big improvement


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> No one said anything about having an advantage or anything in gaming.


yeah i'm not looking for a competitive advantage, i'm after higher quality sound. to me CMSS-3D sounds like artificial metallic garbage. i'm ending my personal debate between ODAC and Titanium HD with mikeaj's thoughts:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Assuming you're not dying for another slot on the mobo and the Creative drivers aren't treating you poorly, I don't see much motivation to get the ODAC, if you say you are on board with that philosophy. If you were to run the Ti HD through NwAvGuy's benchmarking routine, I'm sure it would turn up mostly beyond the "doesn't matter, beyond audibility" threshold lines he has. If that's what you're going for, you're probably already there.
> Save up for new headphones or whatever else you want.


that seems logical.


----------



## Seyumi

Open-backed vs Closed-backed headphones for gaming?

Sorry I didn't see this in the guide and I looked back quite a few pages and didn't see anything.

I consider myself a "compromised gamer" from the guide to where I want really good gaming headphones but I want some bass as I do not play any competitive FPS's or anything. I know all the pros and cons to both open-back and close-back headphones. My question is which one would be better for my situation? I am contemplating between getting an Ultrasone Pro 900 or a 2900 (seems like the same headphones except the 900 is closed while the 2900 is open) I don't care about sound leakage or anything I'm looking for quality sound. Will I lose too much bass going for the open setup? Thanks.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> yeah i'm not looking for a competitive advantage, i'm after higher quality sound. to me CMSS-3D sounds like artificial metallic garbage. i'm ending my personal debate between ODAC and Titanium HD with mikeaj's thoughts:
> that seems logical.


here';s the way I see it:
If you are going to have headphones ONLY: Go for the ODAC.
If however, you might or will be suing speakers too - via rca/coax/analogue (not optical) - then get a soundcard.

Forget about the effects on gaming.
What do you have currently?
If it is on-board - and you use a speaker system, get a soundcard over the ODAC.

If however you want something, dedicated to headphones, the ODAC will be better, and will DRIVE better.

So in order for me to help you better - and I'm not really an audiophile, just someone that appreciates audio:
-What soundcard do you have, if any?
-What will be your primary audio listening device? Headphones, speakers or both?
-What type of connections? RCA, analogue etc
-Do you have an amp, or see the need of one?
-What headphones do you have?
-How much are you looking to spend on either amp/headphone/soundcard?

If you can answer those, I can help you further.


----------



## Porter_

i appreciate it Totally Dubbed, but i'm squared away. current setup is Titanium HD > O2 > DT770's. HD650's are on the way.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> i appreciate it Totally Dubbed, but i'm squared away. current setup is Titanium HD > O2 > DT770's. HD650's are on the way.


then you don't have to worry.
Use the O2 for headphones, especially to drive those 650's - I felt they needed to be driven.


----------



## iARDAs

Hey foljks.

My current headphone got hammered. Cant use it anymore. Time was short and options were limited so I went with the Asus Vulcan. I hope I wont regret it as it is not such a recommended headset here.

Can't import most of the headphones to Turkey as the customs are irritating lately.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking to buy Ultrasone Pro 550.
> But is it not needed headphone amp? Because people in hi-fi forum suggest that any headphone with impedance level above 32 Ohm need a headphone amp for it to sound good.


That's complete horse fecal matter. Most headphones do NOT need an amp. Hard to drive headphones need an amp. Typically (not always true) headphones under 150 dollars do not need a headphone amplifier. ohm rating really doesn't have anything to do with whether a headphone needs an amp or not, although typically if it's a 600 ohm headphone, it would very much appreciate a headphone amp. There are headphones with less than 50 ohms that require a chunky headphone amp.

The Ultrasones IMO don't need a headphone amp and benefit nearly negligibly from one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Don't know how to explain it to you. Sound cards are better for gaming with everything disabled. There has to be something that's changing the audio or some kind of installed software for the soundcard. I have no idea what the answer is. All I can tell you is there's a night and day difference.
> Let's be clear here. Adding "depth" to the game because of immersiveness, brilliant sound complexity and sound articulation(clarity/instrument separation) doesn't mean you have an advantage in gaming. In that respect, the ODAC is the same as on board when it comes to advantages and competitive gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> but due to having depth, the sound, sounds better...has more width....feels more "3D"....No one said anything about having an advantage or anything in gaming.
> Do you own the ODAC out of interest?
> If so - what soundcard are you comparing it to?
Click to expand...

Sounding better has nothing to do with advantageous gaming. The ODAC -DOES NOT- add width or make ANYTHING sound more "3D"ish. In fact, I'd argue the ODAC compared to many other DAC's sounds notably smaller soundstage wise. I think the entire purpose of mentioning gaming when it comes to a soundcard/DAC is for advantages in games, otherwise, there's no purpose to mention gaming at all. If it handles music well then it'll handle whatever crap you're looking for in gaming. I'd say 95%+ of people that ask for gaming soundcards/DACs are looking for ones that offer advantages in positional cues etc and the ODAC does not do that. Saying it does it a flat out lie.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I like gaming with a DAC. Dolby Headphone makes everything sound so distant and artificial.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking to buy Ultrasone Pro 550.
> But is it not needed headphone amp? Because people in hi-fi forum suggest that any headphone with impedance level above 32 Ohm need a headphone amp for it to sound good.
> 
> 
> 
> Ultrasone headphones benefit well from amplifiers. the Ultrasone Pro 750 velour ear pads will fit the Pro 550 model. I suggest buying a pair.
Click to expand...

I disagree that an amplifer helps the 550s and doesn't do much of anything for the 750s. The 900s are where Ultrasones start benefiting from a headphone amp.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I like gaming with a DAC. Dolby Headphone makes everything sound so distant and artificial.
> Ultrasone headphones benefit well from amplifiers. the Ultrasone Pro 750 velour ear pads will fit the Pro 550 model. I suggest buying a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> If that is so, could you recommend a good entry level desktop headphone amp for me? I plan to take Fiio E9, but I'm still not sure.
> 
> Isn't Earpads only affect comfort? Will it be a big difference if I switch the existing earpads for the velour ear pads?
> 
> Thanks in advance..
Click to expand...

Earpads effect comfort, bass, leakage to an extent and the seal the headphone creates on your head. It'll be a noticeable comfort difference switching to velour. Bass wise you may notice a slight decrease in bass, but I'd say the switch is probably still worth it because of how great velour is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*
> 
> If that is so, could you recommend a good entry level desktop headphone amp for me? I plan to take Fiio E9, but I'm still not sure.
> Isn't Earpads only affect comfort? Will it be a big difference if I switch the existing earpads for the velour ear pads?
> Thanks in advance..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Fiio output impedance is 10 ohms so it wouldn't be a good choice. if you already have a source I would probably go with the O2 Amp http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full if you don't have a source you can get the O2 Amp with the ODAC http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=48
> 
> you don't have to buy them right away. if you find the stock pleather pads get too hot and sweaty the velour pads should be a big improvement
Click to expand...

The O2 is absolutely overkill. He'd be fine with a Fiio e10 even.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> i appreciate it Totally Dubbed, but i'm squared away. current setup is Titanium HD > O2 > DT770's. HD650's are on the way.


That's a great set up IMO. Let me know how you enjoy gaming with the HD650s. While the HD650s were enjoyable because they were high-end..they just didn't seem that great for gaming.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the Fiio doesn't have a good damping factor.


----------



## bumblebee1980

sorry didn't see you recommended the Fiio E10. I don't think the O2 is overkill.


----------



## bumblebee1980

it's important

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's important
> 
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html


That's nice you linked me some Nwavguy bull crap, but unless you've heard the headphone with the O2 and another amp, then there's not much to discuss. I have, the damping factor is not really noticeable.

Don't blindly follow the guy because he conducts a bunch of cool tests.

He can tell you you need a lightning rod as an antennae for your headphones. Are you going to go plaster one on your head?

All that damping factor doesn't mean much when the headphone isn't amazing to begin with.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Jesus...


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Jesus...


It's just a bunch of hooplah to me. It's like saying you need an amp for every headphone out there and it really makes the bass great and opens the soundstage and all the other crap I've heard in my time. Headphone amp doesn't do that to headphones that don't need it.

I just don't want people to focus on such a trivial issue when their main concern should be getting the DAC/sound card right and their headphones with proper amplification right.

If their headphone doesn't need an amp, then they shouldn't get an amp.

Lately everyone seems to be crying about getting an amp for every headphone they're getting and I just shake my head because it's a complete waste of money. Other than "WOW I CAN TURN A KNOB TO LOWER MY VOLUME" there's not much to be gained.

So I'd rather not spread around false notions that damping factor will dramatically change the sound and usefulness of your headphone. That should honestly be one of the very last things you should ever consider when matching a headphone with an amp.


----------



## mikeaj

Effect of damping factor is probably pretty overstated, particularly for headphones. And there's a big difference between damping factors of 5 vs. 500 (the same, pretty much), and 0.3 vs. 2 (might actually have some effect?). I don't think people are reading NwAvGuy's articles with the right perspective. Examples are there for illustration, to show extremes. If you're paranoid, I think this is the most important part of the article:


Spoiler: quoted text



Quote:


> A CHEAP TEST: If you're wondering if your current source is compromising the sound quality because of an unknown output impedance, consider buying the $19 FiiO E5 amp. It has a near zero ohm output impedance and has enough output for most many headphones under 100 ohms. If it obviously improves the sound, it's likely your source has an output impedance that's too high.






10 ohms output impedance isn't going to make a difference worth really talking about, except for certain balanced-armature multi-driver IEMs. And that's because of the crossovers mostly and resulting huge frequency response skewing, not a difference in damping.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It's just a bunch of hooplah to me. It's like saying you need an amp for every headphone out there and it really makes the bass great and opens the soundstage and all the other crap I've heard in my time. Headphone amp doesn't do that to headphones that don't need it.
> I just don't want people to focus on such a trivial issue when their main concern should be getting the DAC/sound card right and their headphones with proper amplification right.
> If their headphone doesn't need an amp, then they shouldn't get an amp.
> Lately everyone seems to be crying about getting an amp for every headphone they're getting and I just shake my head because it's a complete waste of money. Other than "WOW I CAN TURN A KNOB TO LOWER MY VOLUME" there's not much to be gained.
> So I'd rather not spread around false notions that damping factor will dramatically change the sound and usefulness of your headphone. That should honestly be one of the very last things you should ever consider when matching a headphone with an amp.


Sorry your arguments are completely flawed.
You heard the Digizoid ZO2?
And again, you didn't answer my question - do you own the O2?

Also, have you heard something like the just audio....or velectric?
I've never been an amp person, nor a wire/interconnect person....but god, that analogy and conclusion your making is severely flawed...
I don't have an amp, for "amping purposes" - if I wanted that, regardless of dumping bla bla, I could get a cheap fiio e5/6 or something like that.
There's a reason people shell out so much for amps - ie. tubes.

This is for gaming, listening, engineering etc.
There is a difference. Well at least that's my opinion...and all the others in the amping industry.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Sorry your arguments are completely flawed.
> You heard the Digizoid ZO2?
> And again, you didn't answer my question - do you own the O2?
> 
> Also, have you heard something like the just audio....or velectric?
> I've never been an amp person, nor a wire/interconnect person....but god, that analogy and conclusion your making is severely flawed...
> I don't have an amp, for "amping purposes" - if I wanted that, regardless of dumping bla bla, I could get a cheap fiio e5/6 or something like that.
> There's a reason people shell out so much for amps - ie. tubes.
> 
> This is for gaming, listening, engineering etc.
> There is a difference. Well at least that's my opinion...and all the others in the amping industry.


Not gonna' lie, I have no idea what you and I are talking about anymore. We were talking about gaming at one point, now you quoted something different..not sure how it all wraps together.

Yes, I own the O2. I've heard the PA2v2.

You tell me how it's flawed. Have YOU heard the two?

I'm not saying amps are useless. Hardly. There's a headphone and a reason to get them. I'M CLAIMING PEOPLE BUY THEM NOWADAYS for a POOR reason. They buy into headphone amps thinking it effects the quality of their headphone and don't realize that they're wasting money when buying a better soundcard would have a much better effect on SQ. Tubes are great. I've always been a fan of tubes. I enjoy tube amps. What does this have to do with anything?

Honestly, you're so off the wall and all over the place that I have no idea what it is you're arguing or if you even know what you're arguing. I don't think you accurately understand my position on amps.

Likewise, I hope you take Mikeaj's advice as he's the audio-science engineer nerd around here.

Does dampening exist and have an effect? Sure, but with two proper headphone amps the difference is so very very minute it's almost not worth mentioning. People shouldn't buy into that because the difference is so very negligible.

Honestly, it's about on par with hearing the difference between two proper DACs. Are there differences? Sure, but they're so very very small that you really really have to be picky to hear a difference between them.


----------



## imusorka

Is the Logitech USB desktop mic the best budget option to be used with a laptop for VoIP if background noise cancellation is essential? Is it worth extra $13 over the Labtec 600?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imusorka*
> 
> Is the Logitech USB desktop mic the best budget option to be used with a laptop for VoIP if background noise cancellation is essential? Is it worth extra $13 over the Labtec 600?


that's the one I've been using and it is great!
No idea about the other one.

(funny i see comments have been deleted)


----------



## imusorka

I wonder how it compares to the $5 Monoprice mic as I'd prefer to have the usual jack...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imusorka*
> 
> I wonder how it compares to the $5 Monoprice mic as I'd prefer to have the usual jack...


for recording?
No idea buddy.

But the MEP 8320 earphones are nice cheap earphones







!


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's a great set up IMO. Let me know how you enjoy gaming with the HD650s. While the HD650s were enjoyable because they were high-end..they just didn't seem that great for gaming.


yep will do. i'm expecting them to be 'good' for gaming in relation to my other headphones which are all closed-back. so my report on how they work for gaming will be skewed a bit.


----------



## imusorka

As in the mic is good on the 8320? I need it for Skype.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imusorka*
> 
> As in the mic is good on the 8320? I need it for Skype.


I have no idea what you're asking mate lol
If you want a desktop mic, get the logitech one.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imusorka*
> 
> As in the mic is good on the 8320? I need it for Skype.


8320s are earphones, not a mic.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I have no idea what you're asking mate lol
> *If you want a desktop mic, get the logitech one.*


Or don't. I have one that is effectively a paperweight, because it is to quiet all the way boosted. Ubuntu gives a tab bit of bonus boost if you need it, and that is the only way I can ever use it.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I have no idea what you're asking mate lol
> *If you want a desktop mic, get the logitech one.*
> 
> 
> 
> Or don't. I have one that is effectively a paperweight, because it is to quiet all the way boosted. Ubuntu gives a tab bit of bonus boost if you need it, and that is the only way I can ever use it.
Click to expand...

That's because you have a bad mic or the volume FLOORED in your settings.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's because you have a bad mic or the volume FLOORED in your settings.


Seen many similar complains, so... And if I turn down the volume it just gets quieter.


----------



## zoidbergslo

For Logitech USB microphone: Quote from Logitech's forum link
Quote:


> Whoever is assembling these, is soldering the microphone elements in reverse. These mics have a preamplified mic element that needs a small voltage (of correct polarity) to actually preamplify. With it reversed, the element has no initial preamplification. I took out my trusty soldering iron and reversed the connections, and it came to life.


Quote:


> The green wire should connect to left hand side of M1 and shielding shoud connec to right hand side.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoidbergslo*
> 
> For Logitech USB microphone: Quote from Logitech's forum link


Thanks. I will look into it. Pics might help if you know of any.


----------



## dbterp

im trying to get the best value for an entry level setup. So far im looking at a combination of a Fiio E10 DAC, a AD700, and swan M10s. thoughts?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

My mic picks me up from across the room - and it has been doing for the last 3 years.
Only thing that's "bad" with it is the hinge which is now worn and torn, meaning I just blu-tac it lol.

As far as mics go - its very very good.

Also, for the MEP 8320 - they could come with a mic - I have no idea


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbterp*
> 
> im trying to get the best value for an entry level setup. So far im looking at a combination of a Fiio E10 DAC, a AD700, and swan M10s. thoughts?


can't comment on the others apart form the fiio:
If you don't need a dac, look into the E11 - or if you want something more fun, go for the digizoid


----------



## zoidbergslo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Thanks. I will look into it. Pics might help if you know of any.


Sorry I don't have this microphone I was just looking around for new microphone and this came up







Just open it and check for wires how those are connected green should be left and shield should be right of M1. I see that link does not work correctly. Just go that forum and search for "logitech low gain" and first result should be the right one.

If I can't resolve my own problem with microphone I'll probably buy this one and if it will have same problem as described ill open it up and take some pictures


----------



## NotReadyYet

I need some feedback that the original guide was unable to assist me with.

I currently have a Creative X-Fi Titanium from 2007 as my current soundcard. I have this paired with the craptastic Razer Carcharias Gaming Headset and needless to say I am sick of it.

So, I am shopping around for a new high end headset, one that is preferably under $200. I use my headset for 60% music and 40% gaming. Can anyone reccommend a good headset that has a built in microphone that can meet my needs? FYI, the music I listen to is mostly electronic and sometimes I listen to the occassional rock song. As for games, I play all types except for racing. Any one care to make a reccomendation? Thanks!


----------



## iARDAs

As you guys might recall my AKG AGS White headset was damaged and did not work anymore. I bought it thanks to this beautiful guide made by Simca.

Since options are very limited in Turkey and the prices are twice, I had to get something here. I couldnt import anything becaus of the shipping costs and custom issues.

Anyhow I just purchased an Asus Vulcan headset.

It looks INCREDIBLE, but I wish it sounded at least good.

AKG AGS was a MUCH better headset than this. The quality of it was really great. The Asus Vulcan is mediocre at best. However I must admit that the ANC feature is incredibly neat.

Don't get me wrong guys I mean Asus Vulcan is probably still a great choice for the price range, I am not arguing that but AKG AGS costs less and performs better.

I sometimes hate that most technological gadgets are not available here in Turkey.

The explosions, the clarity everything was better in the AKG AGS.

I will be keeping my Asus Vulcan for sure but if you ever think of purchasing it, look elsewhere. there are better options.

Edit : Maybe I have to wait until the headset burns in. I wonder if thats the case for Asus Vulcan as well.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbterp*
> 
> im trying to get the best value for an entry level setup. So far im looking at a combination of a Fiio E10 DAC, a AD700, and swan M10s. thoughts?


I would get the D1080 IV instead.


----------



## dbterp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I would get the D1080 IV instead.


Thanks for the suggestion. I kind of like the white but the price isn't that much higher and it definitely seems like a step up


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoidbergslo*
> 
> Sorry I don't have this microphone I was just looking around for new microphone and this came up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just open it and check for wires how those are connected green should be left and shield should be right of M1. I see that link does not work correctly. Just go that forum and search for "logitech low gain" and first result should be the right one.
> If I can't resolve my own problem with microphone I'll probably buy this one and if it will have same problem as described ill open it up and take some pictures


I figured it out thanks. Be doing the fix tonight, if it works you will have saved me quite a bit of money, and get some rep for it as well.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Tried it and, nothing.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Ok. My dad helped with the soldering and after messing with it some more I almost got it to work. Moosed the cable and it worked well for two seconds. Then the wire broke and after that the solder pad pushed out. Now it looks terrible and there is almost a zero chance of it working. Thanks for the suggestion though, as it worked (not for long though xD), I will still give you some rep.


----------



## golfergolfer

I know there are tons of IEM's our there but out of these three which in your opinion is the best?

Klipsch Image S4
Monster Turbine
B&W C5

All I need is a few quick ratings and I will be out of here in no time


----------



## zoidbergslo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Ok. My dad helped with the soldering and after messing with it some more I almost got it to work. Moosed the cable and it worked well for two seconds. Then the wire broke and after that the solder pad pushed out. Now it looks terrible and there is almost a zero chance of it working. Thanks for the suggestion though, as it worked (not for long though xD), I will still give you some rep.


Oh I am sorry to hear that







. Mind taking a photo or two.

Thanks for the rep


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> I know there are tons of IEM's our there but out of these three which in your opinion is the best?
> Klipsch Image S4
> Monster Turbine
> B&W C5
> All I need is a few quick ratings and I will be out of here in no time


No idea about the B&W

S4:
lows: 3/5
mids: 4/5
highs: 5/5

MT:
lows: 4/5
mids: 1.5/5
highs: 3/5

Get the S4's in that list, or look into the Sony EX510's which would rate:
lows: 4/5
mids: 4/5
highs: 4/5

(ratings are my opinion, and my experience, after over 35 IEM reviews & ratings are based on price to performance ratio, with the mid-level entry earphones in mind -> the best of the WHOLE bunch of mid-level is the S4 and EX510)


----------



## bumblebee1980

i'm a home audio kinda woman. can't stand marine, car or portable audio. I do feel compelled to listen to IEM when I visit my local HiFi store though


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> i'm a home audio kinda woman. can't stand marine, car or portable audio. I do feel compelled to listen to IEM when I visit my local HiFi store though


I have an extensive list of denon products coming in








Can't wait to review them!

Oh and in other news, for those that care to know:
Fischer Audio is now officially launched in Europe.
They used to be based in Russia only beforehand.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I like Denon receivers but their new headphones.. I don't know. i'm glad if I buy something from Fischer Audio it won't take 3 months in mail


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I like Denon receivers but their new headphones.. I don't know. i'm glad if I buy something from Fischer Audio it won't take 3 months in mail


I'm getting the:
Denon AH-C400
Denon AH-NCW500

Might be getting the 600's(headphones) to review in the future.
Seeing as I'm a current denon headphone user, this should be interesting.

As for their earphones, this is the first high-end earphone they have released.
I've owned their:
C500, C510, 710's
They were certainly good (c710 being my earphone for over 8months) but sold them due to sibilance.


----------



## Simca

Your ratings of the Klipsch S4 are way too high and the Turbines WAY too low.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoidbergslo*
> 
> Oh I am sorry to hear that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Mind taking a photo or two.
> Thanks for the rep


Yeah, I will try. The board is pretty trashed now, guess my dad's not as good at soldering as he once was.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your ratings of the Klipsch S4 are way too high and the Turbines WAY too low.


Read the brackets.

PS.
Might be worth putting your ratings, if you think mine are WAY too off...


----------



## lb_felipe

Are electrostatic headphones good for gaming?


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Are electrostatic headphones good for gaming?


I wouldn't know, but I do know they are generally used for studio/audiophile territory. Guys using FLAC and WAV and above quality music, and more over, crazy Amp/DACs.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Worth it over sig speakers?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290202

Some games, mainly rock music.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I know someone that uses a SR-407 or 507 for gaming and swears by it.

I think headphones like the Audio Technica ATH-AD700, Audio Technica ATH-AD900, Sennheiser HD558, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser PC360 and Beyerdynamic MX300 are great for gaming. I think a lot of gaming is poorly mixed and not worth a headphone more than $300...

I like headphones but speakers are my first love and I don't like Polk.. they are not the company they used to be.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your ratings of the Klipsch S4 are way too high and the Turbines WAY too low.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the brackets.
> 
> PS.
> Might be worth putting your ratings, if you think mine are WAY too off...
Click to expand...

Your Ratings:
S4:
lows: 3/5
mids: 4/5
highs: 5/5

MT:
lows: 4/5
mids: 1.5/5
highs: 3/5

My Ratings:
S4:
Lows: 3/5 strong bass, but muddy.
Mids: 2.25/5 recessed mids, bass muddies mids.
highs: 2.75/5 sharp, sibilant.

MT:
Lows: 3.75 Strong bass, but often times overpowering or out of control.
Mids: 4/5 strongest part of the IEM, but sometimes the overpowering bass slips into the mids.
Highs: 3/5 Painful, to be blunt, but superior to the S4's.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your Ratings:
> S4:
> lows: 3/5
> mids: 4/5
> highs: 5/5
> MT:
> lows: 4/5
> mids: 1.5/5
> highs: 3/5
> My Ratings:
> S4:
> Lows: 3/5 strong bass, but muddy.
> Mids: 2.25/5 recessed mids, bass muddies mids.
> highs: 2.75/5 sharp, sibilant.
> MT:
> Lows: 3.75 Strong bass, but often times overpowering or out of control.
> Mids: 4/5 strongest part of the IEM, but sometimes the overpowering bass slips into the mids.
> Highs: 3/5 Painful, to be blunt, but superior to the S4's.


really?
I don;'t think many share the same view with you on the MT's that's for sure.
The S4's strength is the mids and highs, I was vastly impressed by them.

MT's are possibly the worst earphones I've heard FOR THE PRICE.
And I even paid only £30 for them -> before you scream fake -> it was on offer from Monster USA at the time, so I grabbed it, listened to it, then sold it for no loss


----------



## Seyumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> Open-backed vs Closed-backed headphones for gaming?
> Sorry I didn't see this in the guide and I looked back quite a few pages and didn't see anything.
> I consider myself a "compromised gamer" from the guide to where I want really good gaming headphones but I want some bass as I do not play any competitive FPS's or anything. I know all the pros and cons to both open-back and close-back headphones. My question is which one would be better for my situation? I am contemplating between getting an Ultrasone Pro 900 or a 2900 (seems like the same headphones except the 900 is closed while the 2900 is open) I don't care about sound leakage or anything I'm looking for quality sound. Will I lose too much bass going for the open setup? Thanks.


Bumping my question since it got lost in a few pages of drama. Thanks everyone


----------



## youra6

Takstar 2050... They look like the DT880, and the sound signature is pretty similar too. Build quality is amazing for 50 dollars. The valour pads aren't as good as the beyerdynamic line, but they are fairly comfortable. Like the DT series, the pads are circumaural.The clamp force is a bit tight, comparable to a PRO DT770.

The treble is a tad too bright, but with a bit of EQ, they sound great. Soundstage is quite good too.

Well worth the 50 dollar plunge.


----------



## bumblebee1980

open back is better for gaming so the Ultrasone Pro 2900..


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your Ratings:
> S4:
> lows: 3/5
> mids: 4/5
> highs: 5/5
> MT:
> lows: 4/5
> mids: 1.5/5
> highs: 3/5
> My Ratings:
> S4:
> Lows: 3/5 strong bass, but muddy.
> Mids: 2.25/5 recessed mids, bass muddies mids.
> highs: 2.75/5 sharp, sibilant.
> MT:
> Lows: 3.75 Strong bass, but often times overpowering or out of control.
> Mids: 4/5 strongest part of the IEM, but sometimes the overpowering bass slips into the mids.
> Highs: 3/5 Painful, to be blunt, but superior to the S4's.
> 
> 
> 
> really?
> I don;'t think many share the same view with you on the MT's that's for sure.
> The S4's strength is the mids and highs, I was vastly impressed by them.
> 
> MT's are possibly the worst earphones I've heard FOR THE PRICE.
> And I even paid only £30 for them -> before you scream fake -> it was on offer from Monster USA at the time, so I grabbed it, listened to it, then sold it for no loss
Click to expand...

IDK, man. Like you, this is what we think of the earphones. I'd be more than happy to hear how others rate their MTs.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> Bumping my question since it got lost in a few pages of drama. Thanks everyone


I swear I answered it already...and said open-back :/?
If isolation isn't an issue, open-back is better, as the soundstage is "wider/deeper"


----------



## Azefore

I'd probably lean more to Simca's ratings on the turbines, had mine for 2 years till the cable frayed at the jack after normal wear and tear. Only have them and Senn CX-200 so can't say my experience with in-ears are varied but mids aren't the worst on them.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> No idea about the B&W
> S4:
> lows: 3/5
> mids: 4/5
> highs: 5/5
> MT:
> lows: 4/5
> mids: 1.5/5
> highs: 3/5
> Get the S4's in that list, or look into the Sony EX510's which would rate:
> lows: 4/5
> mids: 4/5
> highs: 4/5
> (ratings are my opinion, and my experience, after over 35 IEM reviews & ratings are based on price to performance ratio, with the mid-level entry earphones in mind -> the best of the WHOLE bunch of mid-level is the S4 and EX510)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Your Ratings:
> S4:
> lows: 3/5
> mids: 4/5
> highs: 5/5
> MT:
> lows: 4/5
> mids: 1.5/5
> highs: 3/5
> My Ratings:
> S4:
> Lows: 3/5 strong bass, but muddy.
> Mids: 2.25/5 recessed mids, bass muddies mids.
> highs: 2.75/5 sharp, sibilant.
> MT:
> Lows: 3.75 Strong bass, but often times overpowering or out of control.
> Mids: 4/5 strongest part of the IEM, but sometimes the overpowering bass slips into the mids.
> Highs: 3/5 Painful, to be blunt, but superior to the S4's.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> IDK, man. Like you, this is what we think of the earphones. I'd be more than happy to hear how others rate their MTs.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> I'd probably lean more to Simca's ratings on the turbines, had mine for 2 years till the cable frayed at the jack after normal wear and tear. Only have them and Senn CX-200 so can't say my experience with in-ears are varied but mids aren't the worst on them.


Thanks tons for all of your ratings and ideas! I would say that I am leaning more towards the Turbines at this point and probably be picking them up. In IEM's I am not expecting the best sound quality possible however I believe that lows and mids are nicer to have when listening to them (even if the low is a bit to strong) If I want to listen to some better sounding music then I would listen to a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50. This brings me to my next short little question, again here is the list.

Do I get:

Black
or
White
or
Limited Edition

ALSO

Coiled
or
Uncoiled

Now I do know that this is a matter of personal preference but nonetheless what are your thoughts


----------



## Simca

LE Straight Cord.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> LE Straight Cord.


I must say I quite like the LE however the straight cord means it would be 11 feet long. If I am travailing with these from time to time which I will be doing that just seems like so much :/ The coiled cable is (if im not mistaken) 3.9 feet normal and when stretched 9.8 feet. Is there anyway that you personally deal with the 11 feet of cable?


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> I wouldn't know, but I do know they are generally used for studio/audiophile territory. Guys using FLAC and WAV and above quality music, and more over, crazy Amp/DACs.


Thank you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I know someone that uses a SR-407 or 507 for gaming and swears by it.
> I think headphones like the Audio Technica ATH-AD700, Audio Technica ATH-AD900, Sennheiser HD558, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser PC360 and Beyerdynamic MX300 are great for gaming. I think a lot of gaming is poorly mixed and not worth a headphone more than $300...
> I like headphones but speakers are my first love and I don't like Polk.. they are not the company they used to be.


Thank you.

I guess you are talking on this guy: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound

I ask this because I'm looking for headphones for multiple purposes, but it is very good for shooting games. Thus, a person can buy only a pair of headphones to listen to music, film, edit and play.


----------



## Bdebrooke

Are the Seinheiser HD439 's any good ?

Was looking at them at a local best buy for 80 probably could find them cheaper online. But anyway thoughts on them.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Thank you.
> Thank you.
> I guess you are talking on this guy: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
> I ask this because I'm looking for headphones for multiple purposes, but it is very good for shooting games. Thus, a person can buy only a pair of headphones to listen to music, film, edit and play.


no he goes by a different name on another forum. when he told me he uses a Stax I thought he was crazy


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> I must say I quite like the LE however the straight cord means it would be 11 feet long. If I am travailing with these from time to time which I will be doing that just seems like so much :/ The coiled cable is (if im not mistaken) 3.9 feet normal and when stretched 9.8 feet. Is there anyway that you personally deal with the 11 feet of cable?


I keep my M50s on my desk, have around 7-8 feet of the cord wrapped together and just use a twist tie to keep the form of the circle wrap. Works fine for me, I'm not a huge fan of the coiled version on the ATH Pro700MKII but the included straight cable looks like 3 feet lol so until I make my own.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> Are the Seinheiser HD439 's any good ?
> Was looking at them at a local best buy for 80 probably could find them cheaper online. But anyway thoughts on them.


No personal thoughts on them but for the money you could get XB700 or some recently discontinued Senn models for cheap, do you have a preference of closed or open back design?

Off to work >.>


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Thanks tons for all of your ratings and ideas! I would say that I am leaning more towards the Turbines at this point and probably be picking them up. In IEM's I am not expecting the best sound quality possible however I believe that lows and mids are nicer to have when listening to them (even if the low is a bit to strong) If I want to listen to some better sounding music then I would listen to a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50. This brings me to my next short little question, again here is the list.
> Do I get:
> Black
> or
> White
> or
> Limited Edition
> ALSO
> Coiled
> or
> Uncoiled
> Now I do know that this is a matter of personal preference but nonetheless what are your thoughts


I suggest you Google my name and monster. And read my review....up to you in the end of the day. And if you don't have much iem experience, sure you'll find them great.
Anyway, I'll leave you to it. I'll enjoy my pfe 232s...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> I keep my M50s on my desk, have around 7-8 feet of the cord wrapped together and just use a twist tie to keep the form of the circle wrap. Works fine for me, I'm not a huge fan of the coiled version on the ATH Pro700MKII but the included straight cable looks like 3 feet lol so until I make my own.
> No personal thoughts on them but for the money you could get XB700 or some recently discontinued Senn models for cheap, do you have a preference of closed or open back design?
> Off to work >.>


Those are two different headphones. One is mid centric, the other a bass 'monster', as put by some


----------



## iARDAs

Hey folks. I am thinking of getting one of these soundcards

http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-xonar-d2-pm-solby-dts-destekli-yuksek-duyarlilikli-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html

http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-xonar-d2x-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html

http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-rog-xonar-phoebus-kulaklik-amplifikatorlu-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html

I couldnt find any of these among the recommendations.

How do you feel about these soundcards.

Would they be proper replacements over Creative XFI Titanium base model?

I also have a Asus Vulcan headset.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Porter_

seems like a pretty big expense for the ASUS Vulcan. i'm blindly assuming these fit into the standard headset mold, correct me if i'm wrong. i'd just stick with your X-Fi Titanium.


----------



## iARDAs

Things are overratedly expensive here in Turkey which sux.

But hey if these Asus soundcards won't make a difference than best would definitely be to stick with what I have now than.

Thanks mate.

Though I am wondering If i were to purchase one, what kind of improvements would I see?

The thing is my creative xfi titanium does not have a proper win8 support and it is said that there might be an official driver release in November 30th, but as things stand now, I cant even get my mic to work with my current soundcard. I connected the mic through the motherboard not the soundcard.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Hey folks. I am thinking of getting one of these soundcards
> 
> http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-xonar-d2-pm-solby-dts-destekli-yuksek-duyarlilikli-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html
> 
> http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-xonar-d2x-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html
> 
> http://www.teknobiyotik.com/donanim/ses-karti/asus-rog-xonar-phoebus-kulaklik-amplifikatorlu-7-1-pci-e-ses-karti.html
> 
> I couldnt find any of these among the recommendations.
> 
> How do you feel about these soundcards.
> 
> Would they be proper replacements over Creative XFI Titanium base model?
> 
> I also have a Asus Vulcan headset.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


why don't you get a DX instead?
Do you need the headphone amp and RCA connections?
If not, save yourself the huge bucks and get the DX.

FYI:
D2 = D2X - one is a PCI the other a PCI-E version.
Make sure it fits on your motherboard (i suggest PCI-E, as all new motherboards are heading that way)


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> why don't you get a DX instead?
> Do you need the headphone amp and RCA connections?
> If not, save yourself the huge bucks and get the DX.
> FYI:
> D2 = D2X - one is a PCI the other a PCI-E version.
> Make sure it fits on your motherboard (i suggest PCI-E, as all new motherboards are heading that way)


Nope I guess I wont need a headphone AMP as the Asus Vulcan will be my headset for the next 2-3 years and no intentions of getting a new one.

So I am better of getting a Asus Donar DX?

I believe none of the ones I posted above are DX right? They are all different? And a D2X is an overkill for me?

Also I neevr used an Asus Soundcard before so I am wondering if they ahve Technologies like CMS3D or XFI Crystalizer? Because I actually like those 2 Technologies.

Last but not least would I ever be better of If I get a Creative Soundblaster Z which just got released?

Again I LIKE my Xfi titanium but lack of drivers is a huge let down. Win8 is great but the only thing bad in my current system is so far the Xfi titanium.


----------



## Angelus359

I have a xonar d1, and I'm pretty happy with it

At this point, I think I'd need to replace speakers for improvement


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Nope I guess I wont need a headphone AMP as the Asus Vulcan will be my headset for the next 2-3 years and no intentions of getting a new one.
> 
> So I am better of getting a Asus Donar DX?
> 
> I believe none of the ones I posted above are DX right? They are all different? And a D2X is an overkill for me?
> 
> Also I neevr used an Asus Soundcard before so I am wondering if they ahve Technologies like CMS3D or XFI Crystalizer? Because I actually like those 2 Technologies.
> 
> Last but not least would I ever be better of If I get a Creative Soundblaster Z which just got released?
> 
> Again I LIKE my Xfi titanium but lack of drivers is a huge let down. Win8 is great but the only thing bad in my current system is so far the Xfi titanium.


Well I would say you would be better off - I was in the same dilemma d2x vs dx - went for the cheaper dx, simply because i realised, the extra premium I'm paying would be for the headphone amp and the cool looking leds at the back of the card (lol)

Of course audiophile will argue "but there's better SNR on the D2X" - yeah sure there is, but try telling me a difference with an ABX test









Info on the D1:
http://uk.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_D1/

Info on the DX:
http://uk.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_DX/

Remember they are the SAME card, but one is pci-e (dx), the other pci (d1) - I have owned both by the way.
D1 on my old pc, and DX now on my new pc.
Bear in mind one thing: The DX needs power from your PSU to run.

here's a great article of the d2x vs dx, and some others:
http://techreport.com/review/14500/asus-xonar-dx-sound-card

The DX has some support like GX, which is made for gaming, and dolby 7.1 visualisation - but I don't use them, as i find it tinkers with my sound.

As for drivers:
I heard creative are the worst, but asus are pretty bad too.
That said, I wouldn't worry, as I'm using 3rd party drivers:
http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

(Yes I also donated $10 to them)

And yes they work like a god damn charm








(My xonar with official asus drivers wouldn't even mute, change volume, or open up the utility properly)

here's my audio panel now (using the c-panel one):



Here's my installation video, unboxing etc of the DX:


----------



## iARDAs

@ Totally Dubbed

Man thank you for the nice post. +rep

I will be looking into the DX as well right now and skipt D2X as it wont be beneficial for me as I really dont need the headphone AMP it seems.

I will also be watching your video on youtube later and make sure to like it 

Also I ill 100% get a PCI e soundcard for my motherboard.

One last question

Do you know if Asus will come up with a new soundcard like the DX?

The DX and my XFi titanium all seem to be a 4-5 year old soundcards and wondering if there will be newer versions at mid range. Such as around 100$

I also have my eye on the Creative Soundblaster Z but there aren't any reviews I came across yet.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> @ Totally Dubbed
> 
> Man thank you for the nice post. +rep
> 
> I will be looking into the DX as well right now and skipt D2X as it wont be beneficial for me as I really dont need the headphone AMP it seems.
> 
> I will also be watching your video on youtube later and make sure to like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I ill 100% get a PCI e soundcard for my motherboard.
> 
> One last question
> 
> Do you know if Asus will come up with a new soundcard like the DX?
> 
> The DX and my XFi titanium all seem to be a 4-5 year old soundcards and wondering if there will be newer versions at mid range. Such as around 100$
> 
> I also have my eye on the Creative Soundblaster Z but there aren't any reviews I came across yet.


pleasure buddy!
As for the new version - you know I've been asking myself that for the last 2 years with the D1....before buying the DX....no idea in all honesty.
To be honest, in audio, not much changes.
If you take a dynamic driver earphone from 25years ago, adn compare it to now, you'll not notice much difference (yup, i did that with my uncles old sony earphones - i was amazed to hear that the 25yr old earphones actually beat some of the recent "crap" lol)

So when it comes to audio, there might not be updated things for a while - that's my take on it.
Thus, I can't say yes or no, but my assumption is not until it is necessary.

As for the creative, don't know much about it to be honest - sorry!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> LE Straight Cord.
> 
> 
> 
> I must say I quite like the LE however the straight cord means it would be 11 feet long. If I am travailing with these from time to time which I will be doing that just seems like so much :/ The coiled cable is (if im not mistaken) 3.9 feet normal and when stretched 9.8 feet. Is there anyway that you personally deal with the 11 feet of cable?
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't use headphones outside of my home and I never saw the purpose to that. If you want portable audio, IMO, you should buy IEMs. I'm fashion conscientious, practical and like straight cords as opposed to coiled ones. Ultimately, if you're going to travel with them the coiled version would be better for your needs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> Are the Seinheiser HD439 's any good ?
> 
> Was looking at them at a local best buy for 80 probably could find them cheaper online. But anyway thoughts on them.


They're average headphones. Not bad, nothing to rave about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> I keep my M50s on my desk, have around 7-8 feet of the cord wrapped together and just use a twist tie to keep the form of the circle wrap. Works fine for me, I'm not a huge fan of the coiled version on the ATH Pro700MKII but the included straight cable looks like 3 feet lol so until I make my own.
> No personal thoughts on them but for the money you could get XB700 or some recently discontinued Senn models for cheap, do you have a preference of closed or open back design?
> Off to work >.>
> 
> 
> 
> Those are two different headphones. One is mid centric, the other a bass 'monster', as put by some
Click to expand...

He was talking about the cord design, not the headphones.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> He was talking about the cord design, not the headphones.


sigh...read.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> *Thanks tons for all of your ratings and ideas! I would say that I am leaning more towards the Turbines at this point and probably be picking them up. In IEM's I am not expecting the best sound quality possible however I believe that lows and mids are nicer to have when listening to them (even if the low is a bit to strong):*


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> SIGH, READ.
> 
> 
> 
> lol seriously...what was his initial question...man why am I even bothering...
Click to expand...

Because you're wrong and have poor reading comprehension skills? o_o


----------



## BeerPowered

Hey Simca why is something like a Titanium HD better for gaming over a Essence STX?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> Hey Simca why is something like a Titanium HD better for gaming over a Essence STX?


Wish I had an answer for you, my friend. I still don't understand it to this day and have yet to meet anyone that can tell me why, especially when settings are turned off for both, yet the TiHD still performs better. IMO, the circuitry has to have been designed/constructed in such a way that it brings out the mids better than the rest of the spectrum..however many others disagree that this is a possibility. Short of that, I couldn't really even begin to guess how it's done.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Wish I had an answer for you, my friend. I still don't understand it to this day and have yet to meet anyone that can tell me why, especially when settings are turned off for both, yet the TiHD still performs better. IMO, the circuitry has to have been designed/constructed in such a way that it brings out the mids better than the rest of the spectrum..however many others disagree that this is a possibility. Short of that, I couldn't really even begin to guess how it's done.


I thought the Titanium HD had some special chip for gaming then I looked and it doesn't. Then I was trying to figure out why in the world does it get recommended so much. I suppose its like how everyone ignorantly says AD700s whenever someone asks for a headphone recommendation. That and when people blindly say Corsair makes the best PSU's when Corsair doesn't even make the PSU. Which if people researched they would find other brands offer the same exact PSU Corsair offers, but because it says Corsair it is magically better.

Okay cool. Getting a Essence STX on Black Friday/Cyber Monday then. Need to replace my fried Auzentech and aging Omega Claro.


----------



## Simca

There's the new Z series cards from Creative as well.


----------



## iARDAs

I went to the Windows settings for audio and noticed that I had my setting for the thingie at 24bit 48000hz

I immediatelly changed ot ti 24bit 96000hz

I wonder If i will tell the difference.

I guess max my soundcard does is 96


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I went to the Windows settings for audio and noticed that I had my setting for the thingie at 24bit 48000hz
> 
> I immediatelly changed ot ti 24bit 96000hz
> 
> I wonder If i will tell the difference.
> 
> I guess max my soundcard does is 96


I doubt you'll see any difference because the file you're listening must be giving out that quality.








From foobar when listening to flac.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> I doubt you'll see any difference because the file you're listening must be giving out that quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From foobar when listening to flac.


I just checked and all of the songs I have are all 48000hz max. I dont have a single song that is over that lol 

What about while gaming? Do you think it would have an impact?


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Those are two different headphones. One is mid centric, the other a bass 'monster', as put by some


True enough but XB700 is less of a bass hog than the XB500 and can be EQed to be slightly more fun overall than the Senn's and play ok with a lot of genres.

Just to clarify I was answering two questions in my previous post. One on the subject matter of the coiled vs. straight cable. The second being Sennheiser 539 for the money or thoughts on it, thus mentioning the XB700s or the other Senn models. I think we can move on from here








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> What about while gaming? Do you think it would have an impact?


Not really, in fact having Windows settings changed to that specifically sometimes causes launch errors in game. I can't remember exactly which games there was 2 I encountered, but I want to say FO3 wouldn't launch with the default format set higher than 24 bit 44100 Hz.

This may be an old issue this year, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt lol


----------



## Caz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> True enough but XB700 is less of a bass hog than the XB500 and can be EQed to be slightly more fun overall than the Senn's and play ok with a lot of genres.
> Just to clarify I was answering two questions in my previous post. One on the subject matter of the coiled vs. straight cable. The second being Sennheiser 539 for the money or thoughts on it, thus mentioning the XB700s or the other Senn models. I think we can move on from here


I 2nd this.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> True enough but XB700 is less of a bass hog than the XB500 and can be EQed to be slightly more fun overall than the Senn's and play ok with a lot of genres.
> Just to clarify I was answering two questions in my previous post. One on the subject matter of the coiled vs. straight cable. The second being Sennheiser 539 for the money or thoughts on it, thus mentioning the XB700s or the other Senn models. I think we can move on from here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, in fact having Windows settings changed to that specifically sometimes causes launch errors in game. I can't remember exactly which games there was 2 I encountered, but I want to say FO3 wouldn't launch with the default format set higher than 24 bit 44100 Hz.
> This may be an old issue this year, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt lol


No actually you are right. Come to think of it in the past I encountered this issue before with another game. I cant remember but it wasnt FO3. I will revert back.


----------



## lb_felipe

Creative finally did what I always wanted.
Quote:


> Never unplug your headphones again
> With the Sound Blaster Z-series Control Panel, just toggle between your headphone and speaker system with a flip of a switch.


With Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, you can not use headphones and speakers, both simultaneously plugged on the card, without a pain.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Creative finally did what I always wanted.
> With Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, you can not use headphones and speakers, both simultaneously plugged on the card, without a pain.


yeah this could be one of the only reasons for me to upgrade from xfi titanium. I love this feature.


----------



## Crizume

So are their ever any Black friday deals on headphones? Im looking to pick up a pair for music and would love to get them at a discount. Any websites specifically I should be on the lookout for or the typical amazon/newegg?


----------



## Chris13002

During black friday, I think the Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's are probably going on sale, as they usually do on Amazon for $99 and these still amaze me a year later...


----------



## friend'scatdied

The Klipsch Image X10 were the _real_ deal IMO. So comfortable.


----------



## Simca

Sadly if I'm spending 145+ on an IEM, I'm going for the GR07.


----------



## BeerPowered

It depends on stock. Black Friday was made to move old stock to make room for new products. Generally the stuff that moves well already will get a tiny amount knocked off the price.

I imagine Creative Labs Products will get a big discount to make room for Sound Blaster Z. As far as Headphone go I picked up my AD 700s For $95 back in 2010 on Black Friday.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Sadly if I'm spending 145+ on an IEM, I'm going for the GR07.


I'm referring to the Image X10 being offered at the same $100 price point as the Triple.Fi 10 last Black Friday. This Black Friday remains to be seen.


----------



## Simca

In that case, yeah. I'd take the Image X10's over the TripleFi10s at 100 for both. I prefer the mids and bass from the X10 over the Fi10s.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> It depends on stock. Black Friday was made to move old stock to make room for new products. Generally the stuff that moves well already will get a tiny amount knocked off the price.
> I imagine Creative Labs Products will get a big discount to make room for Sound Blaster Z. As far as Headphone go I picked up my AD 700s For $95 back in 2010 on Black Friday.


those AD700 used to be $85 all the time. M50 used to be $99-110 too.


----------



## BeerPowered

Well I just pulled the trigger on some DT990 PRO 250 OHMs for $174.

Just have to upgrade my Fiio E7 to the Fiio E17 and get that Essence STX.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> Well I just pulled the trigger on some DT990 PRO 250 OHMs for $174.
> Just have to upgrade my Fiio E7 to the Fiio E17 and get that Essence STX.


why do you need the E17 for?


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> why do you need the E17 for?


My Sony Walkman. The E17 has a much better DAC than the E7 from what I have read.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> The E17 has a much better DAC than the E7 from what I have read.


The E7 uses the Wolfson WM8740?

If so, it's not the DACs that are responsible. Unless the DAC in the E17 is broken.


----------



## bumblebee1980

these are just $10 chips. it's what the engineer does with them that matters.


----------



## Simca

17 is a waste of money if all you need is the DAC. You're better off getting the E10.


----------



## LeClerc

as i cant buy AD700 in croatia
ebay is not option cuz i need to pay shipping and 25-30% tax
then i have cca 200 dollars headphone with no warranty

any other alternatives for cca 100 dollars?
thx


----------



## kewlbreze77

Has anyone bought and tried out the Sound Blaster Z yet?


----------



## rievhardt

anyone have the asus cine5? is it a good speaker?


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kewlbreze77*
> 
> Has anyone bought and tried out the Sound Blaster Z yet?


It comes out on the 30th. Haven't seen any reviews. They should be hitting soon if not already.


----------



## Crizume

Any one else have an opinion on the DT990 Pros. Been putting them in and out of my cart for a week debating on whether or not i should get them. How are they for gaming? For music? overall?


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizume*
> 
> Any one else have an opinion on the DT990 Pros. Been putting them in and out of my cart for a week debating on whether or not i should get them. How are they for gaming? For music? overall?


I have Yamaha EPH-100s, Audio Technica AD700s, and HFI 580s. I have listened to Beats Executive and Bose Quiet Comfort 15. The DT 990 PRO are 100x better than all of the above. This is before burn in, which will only make them even better. Comfort is unrivaled, they are so comfortable you forget you're wearing them. They are so soft its like your head is nestled in between big natural bouncy breasts. Best $175 I ever spent!


----------



## Crizume

Last question before i finally pull the trigger. What is the difference between the pro's and the regular? Why the discrepancy in price?


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizume*
> 
> Last question before i finally pull the trigger. What is the difference between the pro's and the regular? Why the discrepancy in price?


Go here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more

Short an sweet version is PROs have more Bass and less Soundstage.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> I have Yamaha EPH-100s, Audio Technica AD700s, and HFI 580s. I have listened to Beats Executive and Bose Quiet Comfort 15. The DT 990 PRO are 100x better than all of the above. This is before burn in, which will only make them even better. Comfort is unrivaled, they are so comfortable you forget you're wearing them. *They are so soft its like your head is nestled in between big natural bouncy breasts.* Best $175 I ever spent!


I like my pro 550s but it definitely lacking this *important* feature


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Denon / Fischer Audio europe shipment in


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> I like my pro 550s but it definitely lacking this *important* feature


You can cuddle with your girlfriend/wife for the same experience. These ones are open headphones, and the cushions are big enough that they engulf your entire ear, and I have large ears. The material they use im not quite sure what it is maybe velvet? Its super soft and feels really nice, especially with the sweet melodic trance pumping through them I was literally in Nirvana. Definitely looking forward to upgrading to T70 Telsas in a year/year and a half.

EDIT: Micro Velour Fabric is what they are made of.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the pads are velour and you can get them for the Pro 550 too. I can't stand pleather.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the pads are velour and you can get them for the Pro 550 too. I can't stand pleather.


Yea I know but they're pretty pricy


----------



## bumblebee1980

the protein leather on Denon and Fostex headphones or the lamb skin on Audeze is how it should be done. the cheap synthetic leather is one of the first things I associate with bad headphones.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the protein leather on Denon and Fostex headphones or the lamb skin on Audeze is how it should be done. the cheap synthetic leather is one of the first things I associate with bad headphones.


Yes, I don't understand why cheap headphones don't use lambskin for the ear pads.


----------



## BeerPowered

Well Simca a Titanium HD is only $108 on Amazon, so I guess I will find out what the big deal is! Threw on Saturday Delivery. That way if it dies in a year Black Friday and Cyber Monday will have come full circle!


----------



## Exostenza

DT 990 or ultrasound pro 750 for mostly gaming and some music?

Are these choices overkill?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> DT 990 or ultrasound pro 750 for mostly gaming and some music?
> Are these choices overkill?


Audio is never overkill








Good choices, but I can't comment on either.


----------



## BeerPowered

Haven't heard the 750 Pros but I do own a pair of 580s.

Coming from Ultrasone HFI 580s to Beyerdynamic DT990 PROs I will never recommend Ultrasone ever again. Ultrasone does not make comfortable headphones, the plastic bands they use really hurt the top of your head and they clamp super tight. Beyerdynamic are the most comfortable so far, with Audio Technica in close second. Beyerdynamic winning because you can wear them in public and the cord is coiled.

For sound the 580s barley met my expectations, they are equivalent to Tritton Triggers. Which are $60 cheaper. Even the Trittons are more comfortable than the 580s.

The Beyerdynamics absolutely slaughter them in comparison. The Bass is just enough, doesn't overpower, but good enough for DMX and other Bass heavy Rap. The highs and mids are perfect.

The cord on the 580s is ridiculously long and a huge nuisance. Your not going to fit it in you pocket even zip-tied up.The cord on the DT990s is long, but coiled so it can stretch and look good.

Now when you get the DT990s keep in mind the regular ones have less bass and a bigger sound stage. The PRO version is the opposite more bass and less sound stage.


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> Haven't heard the 750 Pros but I do own a pair of 580s.
> Coming from Ultrasone HFI 580s to Beyerdynamic DT990 PROs I will never recommend Ultrasone ever again. Ultrasone does not make comfortable headphones, the plastic bands they use really hurt the top of your head and they clamp super tight. Beyerdynamic are the most comfortable so far, with Audio Technica in close second. Beyerdynamic winning because you can wear them in public and the cord is coiled.
> For sound the 580s barley met my expectations, they are equivalent to Tritton Triggers. Which are $60 cheaper. Even the Trittons are more comfortable than the 580s.
> The Beyerdynamics absolutely slaughter them in comparison. The Bass is just enough, doesn't overpower, but good enough for DMX and other Bass heavy Rap. The highs and mids are perfect.
> The cord on the 580s is ridiculously long and a huge nuisance. Your not going to fit it in you pocket even zip-tied up.The cord on the DT990s is long, but coiled so it can stretch and look good.
> Now when you get the DT990s keep in mind the regular ones have less bass and a bigger sound stage. The PRO version is the opposite more bass and less sound stage.


Well I have read that he Pro 550 is better than the 580 and the Pro 750 is in a different class altogether than the Pro 550s and 650s, so your comparison doesn't help me, but I appreciate the help.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> Well I have read that he Pro 550 is better than the 580 and the Pro 750 is in a different class altogether than the Pro 550s and 650s, so your comparison doesn't help me, but I appreciate the help.


The Band and Ear cup holders are the same design on both lines.

From what I have read on Head-Fi PRO2500>DT990>PRO 750


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> The Band and Ear cup holders are the same design on both lines.
> From what I have read on Head-Fi PRO2500>DT990>PRO 750


Oh well, I did a bunch of reading and got the 750 Pro for half price so I am just going to be a happy camper. Now I have to figure out if my current soundcard is good enough or if I should go buy a better one to get good 3d positional audio on this stereo headset as my G35 currently enables me to hear exactly where a sound source is in a game and I really don't want to lose that. I like the positional audio so much I bet I will be willing to sell my 750s and stick with the G35 if I can't get as good emulated surround sound with them.


----------



## Swiftes

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/saffire-6-usb

If you are making beats/working with audio or even if you are after a decent Soundcard for recording guitars/mics and to power your monitors, I heartily reccomend this. Has a pair of balanced TRS Outputs, 4 x RCA outputs (unbalanced) and dual trs inputs (with phantom power for mics) I record the output from my Gemini mixer when I am having a mix and it has crystal clear quality (dual focusrite preamps are lovely).

Basically its unreal. And cheap.


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftes*
> 
> http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/saffire-6-usb
> If you are making beats/working with audio or even if you are after a decent Soundcard for recording guitars/mics and to power your monitors, I heartily reccomend this. Has a pair of balanced TRS Outputs, 4 x RCA outputs (unbalanced) and dual trs inputs (with phantom power for mics) I record the output from my Gemini mixer when I am having a mix and it has crystal clear quality (dual focusrite preamps are lovely).
> Basically its unreal. And cheap.


Ah, well I am mainly a gamer and enjoy listening to music so all I want from a soundcard is the ability to do 3d positional audio on a stereo headset and be able to drive the Ultrasone Pro 750 well enough to be worth it.

Thanks for the input though.

My brother runs a recording studio so if I ever need to do any recording I would just go over to his studio. I'd ask for his help, but he knows nothing about 3d positional gaming sound cards.


----------



## Simca

I didn't care for the Pro 2500, but that's just my opinion. I'm overall not too crazy about Ultrasone past the pro 550s. I would get the Beyer's over Ultrasone for your needs though..IF you have an amp.


----------



## bumblebee1980

for the love of god e-mail Mark Lawton and ask if he has any Denon headphones before you consider buying Ultrasone....or consider the new Denon AH-D600 which you buy for $339 at DIYMicro.com


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> for the love of god e-mail Mark Lawton and ask if he has any Denon headphones before you consider buying Ultrasone....or consider the new Denon AH-D600 which you buy for $339 at DIYMicro.com


agreed.
I LOVE my modded d2k's with LA pads and d5k cups and custom d7k wire


----------



## bumblebee1980

I think people need to really look at the new AH-D600.. it doesn't measure as well as the old AH-D5000 but the improvements to the stock pads and isolation kinda balances it self out at the end of the day and you can buy them cheaper than the old AH-D2000 instead of $499 MSRP doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Exostenza

I was able to snag the ultrasone pro 750 for only $225 so automatically it makes it much more worth it over a 339 dollar headset. Also $225 was my max price point and I hit so I'm happy

Any suggestions on a soundcard if I even need one over my current xfi xtrememusic?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## gab195

So I bought an Asus Xonar DGX and a Steelseries 7H and am waiting for them to arrive. From the looks of things I don't know if I got a good deal or have made an expensive mistake.


----------



## dbterp

Forgive me but im not knowledgable in audio products. What is the best way to maximize sound quality for a pair of audioengine A5 speakers? I have no PCI slots for internal soundcards, so i would use a DAC i believe. i would like to spend up to $100.


----------



## Swiftes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Swiftes*
> 
> http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/saffire-6-usb
> If you are making beats/working with audio or even if you are after a decent Soundcard for recording guitars/mics and to power your monitors, I heartily reccomend this. Has a pair of balanced TRS Outputs, 4 x RCA outputs (unbalanced) and dual trs inputs (with phantom power for mics) I record the output from my Gemini mixer when I am having a mix and it has crystal clear quality (dual focusrite preamps are lovely).
> Basically its unreal. And cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, well I am mainly a gamer and enjoy listening to music so all I want from a soundcard is the ability to do 3d positional audio on a stereo headset and be able to drive the Ultrasone Pro 750 well enough to be worth it.
> 
> Thanks for the input though.
> 
> My brother runs a recording studio so if I ever need to do any recording I would just go over to his studio. I'd ask for his help, but he knows nothing about 3d positional gaming sound cards.
Click to expand...

No worries man. I think creative have a new gaming range of cards on the way don't they? Might be worth looking into.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dbterp*
> 
> Forgive me but im not knowledgable in audio products. What is the best way to maximize sound quality for a pair of audioengine A5 speakers? I have no PCI slots for internal soundcards, so i would use a DAC i believe. i would like to spend up to $100.


http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HRT-Music-Streamer-II-D-A-Converter-Cyber-Monday-Special-/300823936532?pt=US_Internet_Media_Streamers&hash=item460a80fe14&_uhb=1#ht_746wt_1163


----------



## iARDAs

Hey folks

If I get a headphone AMP, will the sound quality of my Asus Vulcan increase or stay the same?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Hey folks
> 
> If I get a headphone AMP, will the sound quality of my Asus Vulcan increase or stay the same?


Depends really. What amp did you get? How is it connected?
Normally, there should be an improvement in the sound quality.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Depends really. What amp did you get? How is it connected?
> Normally, there should be an improvement in the sound quality.


I just have a Creative XFI Titanium (base model not HD) thats it









and of course a Asus Vulcan headset.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I just have a Creative XFI Titanium (base model not HD) thats it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and of course a Asus Vulcan headset.


Ah I kind of misread the question.
In all honesty, no.

Unless you are willing to spend some serious cash on it.
All an amp (that I presume you'll want to get for under $100) will do is boost the volume and give you a potential option of bass boosting.
Save up your money to either buy a better soundcard or headset (not saying yours are bad btw!)


----------



## iARDAs

Asus Vulcan is mediocre but I couldn't spend more money at the moment. Maybe in a year I can sell it and change it.

I am waiting on the Creative drivers that will officialy release for Win 8 on November 30th.

I will probably jump the Asus wagon though

I have my eyes set on Asus Essense STX.

Edit :

I do hope a little that Asus Essnese STX will provide better results on my Asus Vulcan than Creative XFI Titanium (base model)


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Asus Vulcan is mediocre but I couldn't spend more money at the moment. Maybe in a year I can sell it and change it.
> 
> I am waiting on the Creative drivers that will officialy release for Win 8 on November 30th.
> 
> I will probably jump the Asus wagon though
> 
> I have my eyes set on Asus Essense STX.
> 
> Edit :
> 
> I do hope a little that Asus Essnese STX will provide better results on my Asus Vulcan than Creative XFI Titanium (base model)


well its in-built amp will give you a huge boost. But to hear the audible differences between something like the DX vs STX will be EXTREMELY hard to hear.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's a great set up IMO. Let me know how you enjoy gaming with the HD650s. While the HD650s were enjoyable because they were high-end..they just didn't seem that great for gaming.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> yep will do. i'm expecting them to be 'good' for gaming in relation to my other headphones which are all closed-back. so my report on how they work for gaming will be skewed a bit.


after using the HD650's for a week i find them pretty decent for gaming, not phenomenal. in comparison to the DT770's the sound stage is about equal. a combination of the HD650's being congested for an open back headphone (or so i gather, this is my first opened back headphone) and the DT770's being large/open for a closed back headphone. positional cues are better on the DT770's. the HD650's sound much more natural, which is a statement that's parroted across the web but does hold true. i can't articulate it well but things like gunshots and voices sound appropriate relative to other ambient noises. everything just sounds 'right' with the HD650's. because of this they'll be my primary headphone. not the utmost best for competitive gaming but definitely the most enjoyable (that i own). i've also compared them with my NVX Audio XPT100's (FA-003/HM5 clone) and without going into detail i much prefer the HD650's.

for music it's a no brainer. i don't use CMSS-3D so read the above with that in mind.


----------



## rievhardt

should I replace my Creative T20 II 2.0 for Edifier S330 2.1?
would I be able to hear any improvements out of it?

to be paied with ASUS Xonar DSX...
any recommendations if I should just save up my money and get something better?
I can't place a 5.1 on my table...so my upgrades is kinda limited.

music over gaming on use


----------



## Exostenza

Foes anyone have any idea when the sound blaster z comes out?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## SwishaMane

Didnt see a single Creative E-MU card.


----------



## Crizume

Any one have an opinion or any experience with Jamo S 426.


----------



## MLJS54

Quick question:

Is this the same Creative Titanium card that is recommended in the OP for gaming sound cards?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> agreed.
> I LOVE my modded d2k's with LA pads and d5k cups and custom d7k wire


yeah









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8vvOccrQ8&feature=plcp


----------



## Simca

A D2k modified like that isn't a D2k anymore.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> A D2k modified like that isn't a D2k anymore.


Well I could say the d5k.
But then people would have thought I spent over £400 on them









Drivers of the d2 and d5 are identical.

Stock d2ks actually have lower bass and less comfort/soundstage than my modded ones.
Wire made no difference.
Pads added soundstage and a lot of comfort
Wood cups with dampening added highs and quite a bit of bass.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> yeah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8vvOccrQ8&feature=plcp


Who knows I might get them to review in the near future. If I do I'll yet y'all know


----------



## prava

Hi!

kudos to *Simca* for the fantastic job with the OP, whether I agree with him or not, its a lot of time he put on the thread









---

I'd like to get a sound card for positional audio, with this features:

a) I require a *Line out* (since I'll be using my Matrix M-Stage or Objective 2... not sure which because the Objective arrives tomorrow and will try them and sell one of them).
b) I don't care about sound quality (have USB DAC for music only... an HRT MS II+ and an incoming ODAC).
c) If its USB... better. I have some grounding problems at home and the only way I got rid of them was by getting USB DAC's.

I have a plethora of cans around (D2000, K701, HD650.....) and I want to have fun and see if there is any benefit while gaming (and gaming only), and thus why I'd like to test CMSS3D Headphone vs Dolby Headphone vs Raw Stereo.

Note: line out is a must because most of my cans require amping to work properly, and it would be pointless to test sound cards while underamping my cans.

Thanks!

PS: I'd love to test my nowadays gear vs the Objective 2 + ODAC... but there is no way to make a good review without actually doing some blind testing... and that requires A TON of time and subjects to test. Not sure I'll bother... although I'd love to.

PSS: well, maybe I'll fool my brother to sit on a chair and not look at the equipment while I switch stuff







Although one subject hardly makes any difference


----------



## MLJS54

Apologies about the multiple posts but can someone kindly confirm whether this is the same Titanium card as the one listed in the OP (under ~$80 gaming cards). My Auzen Forte is completely toast as of last night so I'm itching to buy a new card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=4003003&SID=rzhs6nqfhxd

"Creative 70SB088000004-8 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express 1x Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Sound Card "

If so, at $44.99, should I go ahead and purchase this or will the Titanium HD (cheapest I can find is ~$125 on AMZN) really make a world of difference for gaming? I'm no longer playing competitive FPS such as COD MW1 Promod and CS 1.6 (where positioning was very important to me) and mainly focus on MMORPGs these days (such as Guild Wars 2) but still need some sense of positioning. Also, given that fact, can I get by with an ASUS card? Asking because I really disliked Creative's drivers/software suite when I had the Forte. Or would the Titanium @ $44.99 be better than any ASUS card I can get in the ~$100 range (such as the Xonar DX)?

Thanks in advance


----------



## chinesekiwi

Get the Titanium at $45 and yes, it's the right one.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Replaced the Ultrasone PRO 900 with the Denon D600 in the bassy gaming headphone section as the D600 is a much better headphone overall.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Replaced the Ultrasone PRO 900 with the Denon D600 in the bassy gaming headphone section as the D600 is a much better headphone overall.


Interesting. Are the d600s mids any good?


----------



## bumblebee1980

less recessed sounding than Beyerdynamic DTxxx


----------



## bumblebee1980

Ultrasone is the poster child for v-shape headphones!

I went to a HiFi store I rarely visit the other day and I was kinda bummed they didn't have the AH-D7100 on demo but they had the AH-D600, DT990 (32 ohm), DT880 (32 ohm). i'm picking up a pair on Boxing Day hopefully. I really want to give the Fostex TH600 a listen


----------



## Simca

I'm not as much a fan of the d600s as many of you are. I don't think it's necessarily better than the D2ks it replaces. The largest difference is the asethetics. The bass is better, but I'd say other than bass the D2ks are probably better in every other way. Soundstage definitely goes to D2ks. The treble on the D2ks is way better. The mids I'd give to the D2ks by a bit. While I agree for gaming the Pro 900s are not the best choice, I think that the D2ks, while discontinued, are still superior to the D600s that replace it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I didn't spend a lot of time listening to them at the store and I wasn't thinking about the Denon AH-D2000. I think these are better and more in line with the AH-D5000.


----------



## Simca

I definitely do not think that.

Only thing I liked about the D600s were the asthetics, the comfort and the tighter bass. Short of that it's inferior to the D2ks in every way. The d600s could USE more clamping force on top of that IMO.


----------



## bumblebee1980

they fit on my head just fine. there is more depth inside the cups and isolation


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> they fit on my head just fine. there is more depth inside the cups and isolation


Yeah, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I think with a tighter clamp the bass might be even better.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I didn't spend a lot of time listening to them at the store and I wasn't thinking about the Denon AH-D2000. I think these are better and more in line with the AH-D5000.


Keep in mind that the D2000 and D5000 share the same drivers... so differences shouldn't be that big


----------



## bumblebee1980

I know I have listened to the entire Denon line. I own a AH-D5000 and used to own a Denon AH-D1001. I really like Foster drivers. they have this nice lush stereo sound signature. I hope people find a place in their heart for the AH-D600 because the old ones are not coming back


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I didn't spend a lot of time listening to them at the store and I wasn't thinking about the Denon AH-D2000. I think these are better and more in line with the AH-D5000.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the D2000 and D5000 share the same drivers... so differences shouldn't be that big
Click to expand...

The enclosure difference can create a completely different headphone.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm not as much a fan of the d600s as many of you are. I don't think it's necessarily better than the D2ks it replaces. The largest difference is the asethetics. The bass is better, but I'd say other than bass the D2ks are probably better in every other way. Soundstage definitely goes to D2ks. The treble on the D2ks is way better. The mids I'd give to the D2ks by a bit. While I agree for gaming the Pro 900s are not the best choice, I think that the D2ks, while discontinued, are still superior to the D600s that replace it.


Just a little heads-up (maybe something to look forward to)
The man fro denon, that I'm in contact with said: "this false assumption on forums, like on head-fi, that the OLD D2/5/7K line is REPLACED and should sound the SAME or have some SIMILAR aspects to the old line are completely wrong"

Who knows- could we possibly see a new line in the future, aimed more towards audiophiles with a more traditional look?
No idea - but might be something to consider
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I didn't spend a lot of time listening to them at the store and I wasn't thinking about the Denon AH-D2000. I think these are better and more in line with the AH-D5000.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Keep in mind that the D2000 and D5000 share the same drivers... so differences shouldn't be that big


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The enclosure difference can create a completely different headphone.


agreed with simca.
There's a substantial difference between my stock d2ks, and modded like d5ks.
I'm not just saying that, I A/bed the following at an audio meet:
d2k stock vs my d2k with d5k dampened cups and d7k wire vs d5k stock vs d2k with d7k cup & custom braided cable

Out of all of them the custom braided cable d2k sounded the best.
The stock d5k's sounded a LOT like my modded d2k, but a little more "controlled" mids.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I didn't say it sounded the same I said it was more in line with the AH-D5000. sounded great to my ears.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I didn't say it sounded the same I said it was more in line with the AH-D5000. sounded great to my ears.


In that case I really look forward to hearing them!


----------



## bumblebee1980

people dismiss it easily because it's a lifestyle headphone but it's also got a 50mm Foster driver inside it so I don't think people should burn it to the stake either. Bob Barker says the price is right at $339. if the Fostex TH600 sells for $1000-1200. i'll buy it for sure.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> people dismiss it easily because it's a lifestyle headphone but it's also got a 50mm Foster driver inside it so I don't think people should burn it to the stake either. Bob Barker says the price is right at $339. if the Fostex TH600 sells for $1000-1200. i'll buy it for sure.


wait a second, Fostex don't make denon drivers no more - I swear the new ones were in-built drivers - thus non-fostex ones.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> people dismiss it easily because it's a lifestyle headphone but it's also got a 50mm Foster driver inside it so I don't think people should burn it to the stake either. Bob Barker says the price is right at $339. if the Fostex TH600 sells for $1000-1200. i'll buy it for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> wait a second, Fostex don't make denon drivers no more - I swear the new ones were in-built drivers - thus non-fostex ones.
Click to expand...

Are those like inbreeded drivers?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> wait a second, Fostex don't make denon drivers no more - I swear the new ones were in-built drivers - thus non-fostex ones.


this is a Foster driver used in the Creative Aurvana Live!



a lot of similarities...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Are those like inbreeded drivers?


Made by Denon and not another company.


----------



## bumblebee1980

here is another give away... the whole "Free Edge"


----------



## rrims

Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction. I bought a Xonar DG and had nothing but problems. 10+ BSODs in a 48 hour period. So I'm RMA-ing it and looking for another sound solution.

I need a sound source that has optical out to go to my Denon AVR 1508. I need the best quality I can get. Headphone amp is optional. I care more about my surround sound then the sound coming from my headphones.If I need to go DAC, I don't mind, i just need to get my audio back on par. My budget is anywhere 100 USD or under. I'd really appreciate the help.


----------



## bumblebee1980

why don't you try the DX?


----------



## rrims

With the horrible experience I just had with the DG. Plus the very bland Asus software that came with the online drivers. I'm kinda leery with Asus sound cards.


----------



## Simca

Why don't you try your onboard since a soundcard won't do anything for you.


----------



## rrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Why don't you try your onboard since a soundcard won't do anything for you.


I was researching that option as soon as you posted that. My mobo claims 192hz/24bit lossless. They don't give a dnr rating though.

I wouldn't notice a difference if I got a sound card, lets say the DX, over my onboard optical?


----------



## Simca

Your RECEIVER is doing the work, not the sound card. Your specs on your motherboard's audio means nothing as it's being bypassed through optical to your receiver. The DAC in the receiver is doing the conversion.


----------



## rrims

No need to be upset, I'm just asking...

I've had a hell of day with BSOD'd constantly and losing 3 hours worth of work today since this is my main rig and work rig.

I really appreciate the clear answers. It helps a ton.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

No one's upset...


----------



## rrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> No one's upset...


Conveying emotion over text is a little difficult. So I just wanted to clear any anger in the air. I did say thank you for the help. I'm not at all mad at anyone here. Just had "one of those" days. +rep has been spread to everyone who's helped.


----------



## remedyhalopc

can anyone help me out? I'm entirely clueless as what to get.









http://www.overclock.net/t/1332094/xonar-ds-vs-dgx


----------



## Domino

What do you guys think of this set-up for work? Yamaha NS-BP110 + Lepai Tripath Class-T. I can get the set up for roughly 110 bucks but I can't find any reviews on the speakers. Or maybe pair them with the Lepai LP-168HA as it has 40w per channel?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rrims*
> 
> No need to be upset, I'm just asking...
> I've had a hell of day with BSOD'd constantly and losing 3 hours worth of work today since this is my main rig and work rig.
> I really appreciate the clear answers. It helps a ton.


Ok bro, first of all that poor girl always seems to be on tantrum with everybody.
Secondly what he or she is trying to say is: the audio processing is being bypassed by your receiver. In other words, getting a sound card is almost useless, if your using it via optical. More so, it would be silly to use a sound card when you got a brilliant receiver instead.

Also I should say that bsods might not be due to the sound card...as for drivers, I know exactly what you mean. But I'm using the unified drives you can find online, unofficial ones, but brilliant ones.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Simca

Capitalize a word and you've successfully scolded someone. If anyone has been mad here, it is certainly not I. After all, you're the one having a bad day. Regardless, if my clarifying post is not clear enough, there are bigger issues that need to be addressed.


----------



## rrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Ok bro, first of all that poor girl always seems to be on tantrum with everybody.
> Secondly what he or she is trying to say is: the audio processing is being bypassed by your receiver. In other words, getting a sound card is almost useless, if your using it via optical. More so, it would be silly to use a sound card when you got a brilliant receiver instead.
> Also I should say that bsods might not be due to the sound card...as for drivers, I know exactly what you mean. But I'm using the unified drives you can find online, unofficial ones, but brilliant ones.
> Hope that helps!


I kinda got that concept before yesterdays fiasco, but just wasn't thinking clearly. Thank you for clearing it up though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Capitalize a word and you've successfully scolded someone. If anyone has been mad here, it is certainly not I. After all, you're the one having a bad day. Regardless, if my clarifying post is not clear enough, there are bigger issues that need to be addressed.


This is getting carried way out of hand. I asked a question, you responded, I misinterpreted. That's all it is, and all it needs to be. So let's drop this and carry on.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rrims*
> 
> I kinda got that concept before yesterdays fiasco, but just wasn't thinking clearly. Thank you for clearing it up though.
> This is getting carried way out of hand. I asked a question, you responded, I misinterpreted. That's all it is, and all it needs to be. So let's drop this and carry on.


my pleasure my man!
Has your motherboard got optical out, out of interest?

As for your BSOD's we can take that up via PM's if you want or in a respective thread, but usually that's down to either software or hardware. Usually, in fact due to OC's.


----------



## rrims

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> my pleasure my man!
> Has your motherboard got optical out, out of interest?
> As for your BSOD's we can take that up via PM's if you want or in a respective thread, but usually that's down to either software or hardware. Usually, in fact due to OC's.


Yeah I took out the DG last night and carried about my business. My motherboard has optical out.

If youre sure its more a driver issue then hardware, that would help a ton. As for the OC, its been stable for months now and only bsod when I put the card in.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rrims*
> 
> Yeah I took out the DG last night and carried about my business. My motherboard has optical out.
> If youre sure its more a driver issue then hardware, that would help a ton. As for the OC, its been stable for months now and only bsod when I put the card in.


I'll PM you, in order not to spam the thread.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Simca, which is better to adjust the sub volume on: the sub it's self or the amp gain? Left channel is set at +4db, right 0, and sub at +4. Should I take it back to zero and turn the sub up?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Simca, which is better to adjust the sub volume on: the sub it's self or the amp gain? Left channel is set at +4db, right 0, and sub at +4. Should I take it back to zero and turn the sub up?


Depends on how good your sub is, I suppose. Controlling the subwoofer should see the most change.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Depends on how good your sub is, I suppose. Controlling the subwoofer should see the most change.


Gotcha.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Instead of posting silly questions just flat out ask the question you have


Relax Simca. Let people ask silly questions if they want to. People should feel comfortable on OCN.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Relax Simca. Let people ask silly questions if they want to. People should feel comfortable on OCN.


Silly? Not really. Bit more respect wouldn't do some people harm


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Instead of posting silly questions just flat out ask the question you have
> 
> 
> 
> Relax Simca. Let people ask silly questions if they want to. People should feel comfortable on OCN.
Click to expand...

Professionalism over Comfort.


----------



## bazookaworm

Is eBay the only place where I can get the Vsonic GR99? Are they really the best earbuds, being only $28?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Relax Simca. Let people ask silly questions if they want to. People should feel comfortable on OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silly? Not really. Bit more respect wouldn't do some people harm
Click to expand...

Depends what you consider a silly question. Silly and respect are two different things anyways. I'm just here to have fun and learn from other people.

@Simca - Professionalism indicates payment; are you being paid to post? Besides OCN is a community of enthusiasts, not a professional thread full of paid, classroom taught employees. I've noticed you become pretty heated when it comes to what some people say and their opinions is all.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bazookaworm*
> 
> Is eBay the only place where I can get the Vsonic GR99? Are they really the best earbuds, being only $28?


Pay 7 dollars more and get the GR02 Bass Edition.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Relax Simca. Let people ask silly questions if they want to. People should feel comfortable on OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silly? Not really. Bit more respect wouldn't do some people harm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Depends what you consider a silly question. Silly and respect are two different things anyways. I'm just here to have fun and learn from other people.
> 
> @Simca - Professionalism indicates payment; are you being paid to post? Besides OCN is a community of enthusiasts, not a professional thread full of paid, classroom taught employees. I've noticed you become pretty heated when it comes to what some people say and their opinions is all.
Click to expand...

According to the TOS we are EXPECTED to seek a professional standard. Has nothing to do with payment. If you have a problem with this methodology, take it up with administration.

Silly and respect are two very different things because they're nothing alike. I don't see what you're getting at. The point of the post, since it seems to allude you, is to cut to the chase. Don't give scenarios that won't help you. Let us know what your ultimate goal is so we can cut the crap out of the equation and get you an answer expediently.

However, I am aware of the community's poor reading comprehension overall. I would understand that you could not interpret the sentence correctly. I would advise you to read over statement more than once..and then ask for clarification if you do not understand it. You can feel free to PM me should you feel uncomfortable posting publicly. I am here to help you.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Depends what you consider a silly question. Silly and respect are two different things anyways. I'm just here to have fun and learn from other people.
> @Simca - Professionalism indicates payment; are you being paid to post? Besides OCN is a community of enthusiasts, not a professional thread full of paid, classroom taught employees. I've noticed you become pretty heated when it comes to what some people say and their opinions is all.


Nop, neither have I got paid for over 242 articles I have posted on my website, over 600 videos on YouTube, and 3.5million + upload views.
But I still respect every person that comments, and try to understand and more so help them out.

Some people unfortunately in this world don't have the patience, respect nor courtesy to do that.

I'm just here to help people out with IEM questions more than anything. Seeing as I have a vast array of earphones I've heard, and/or receiving for review.
Plus seeing as I'm completely independent, and not paid, I have no objection in giving audio products a bad review, unlike some companies, like CNET that will always endeavour of giving a positive review









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Pay 7 dollars more and get the GR02 Bass Edition.
> However, I am aware of the community's poor reading comprehension overall. I would understand that you could not interpret the sentence correctly. I would advise you to read over statement more than once..and then ask for clarification if you do not understand it. .


this is what I mean. Ninja.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> Depends what you consider a silly question. Silly and respect are two different things anyways. I'm just here to have fun and learn from other people.
> @Simca - Professionalism indicates payment; are you being paid to post? Besides OCN is a community of enthusiasts, not a professional thread full of paid, classroom taught employees. I've noticed you become pretty heated when it comes to what some people say and their opinions is all.
> 
> 
> 
> Nop, neither have I got paid for over 242 articles I have posted on my website, over 600 videos on YouTube, and 3.5million + upload views.
> But I still respect every person that comments, and try to understand and more so help them out.
> 
> Some people unfortunately in this world don't have the patience, respect nor courtesy to do that.
> 
> I'm just here to help people out with IEM questions more than anything. Seeing as I have a vast array of earphones I've heard, and/or receiving for review.
> Plus seeing as I'm completely independent, and not paid, I have no objection in giving audio products a bad review, unlike some companies, like CNET that will always endeavour of giving a positive review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Pay 7 dollars more and get the GR02 Bass Edition.
> However, I am aware of the community's poor reading comprehension overall. I would understand that you could not interpret the sentence correctly. I would advise you to read over statement more than once..and then ask for clarification if you do not understand it. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is what I mean. Ninja.
Click to expand...

You barely responded to his post other than tooting your own horn.

That said, clarify your last statement.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

You guys are something else. If you excuse I have to study for finals.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> You guys are something else. If you excuse I have to study for finals.


I'm busy finishing up on my "1964-SLV Universal IEM Custom Sleeves for Phonak Audéo PFE 232" post too









EDIT:
Finished, and looking sexy!


----------



## Simca

I didn't think you would.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I didn't think you would.


Oh of course I can, I just *really* can't be bothered to waste my time on someone like yourself








Big difference there.

Hopefully you understand.


----------



## Simca

If that were true, you wouldn't have wasted it responding. Hahahaha, so clearly that's not the answer.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If that were true, you wouldn't have wasted it responding. Hahahaha, so clearly that's not the answer.


----------



## Simca

...










...










...


----------



## nvidiaftw12

To you headphone guys. What do you thing of UE 500's. I paid 80 bucks for them when they were very new, but now they cost $35. I have never heard a $35 dollar earbud come close. Anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> To you headphone guys. What do you thing of UE 500's. I paid 80 bucks for them when they were very new, but now they cost $35. I have never heard a $35 dollar earbud come close. Anyone have any experience with them?


Not the ue 500's here, haven't heard them, but my ue350's never cease to impress me for their price - i use the 350s when i don't want to damage my pfe 232's - ie. when playing football


----------



## bumblebee1980

now I can sleep easy









D7100



old Denon line


----------



## Exostenza

Hey simca I was wondering if you could just give me your opinion on my recent choice. I decided to ditch my g35 and finally get a good set of cans again (used to have a Sony mdr set) and did a lot of reading which includes your op here. I decided on getting the ultrasone pro 650 and when going to buy amazon had a huge headphone sale and I decided to grab the ultrasone pro 750 as it was half price. Again, after reading a lot more I decided I need an amplified port to enjoy them fully so I ordered the sound blaster z in as I read they finally got some quality dacs and amps on it and it has all the features I want (cmss 3d, dedicated headphone jack with amp, and quality dac, and microphone etc) and the reviews said they made up for the crazy Recon3D cards quite well (I found a super in depth review in Russianand they really liked the card ).

I just wanted to know your opinion as you are knowledgeable and straight forward and I like that. I also please note I realize the pro 750s aren't the best for their price range but I got them for half price!

I'm so excited. Everything should be in the week.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I don't like Ultrasone headphones. audiophiles spend their whole lives wheeling and dealing trying to chase pure audiophile frequency response and Ultrasone is like an abomination. they are cold, tinny, bass heavy, bright and they measure horribly but not everyone is an audiophile. I probably would of went with Asus because of the Xonar Unified Drivers and really the jury is still out on the new Z series cards.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Ok guys, I don't want to edit posts but really, everyone, behave.

We have a very good community that's getting better and better in expertise in different audio fields and I don't want it ruined by some minor bollocks over syntax. Thanks.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> Hey simca I was wondering if you could just give me your opinion on my recent choice. I decided to ditch my g35 and finally get a good set of cans again (used to have a Sony mdr set) and did a lot of reading which includes your op here. I decided on getting the ultrasone pro 650 and when going to buy amazon had a huge headphone sale and I decided to grab the ultrasone pro 750 as it was half price. Again, after reading a lot more I decided I need an amplified port to enjoy them fully so I ordered the sound blaster z in as I read they finally got some quality dacs and amps on it and it has all the features I want (cmss 3d, dedicated headphone jack with amp, and quality dac, and microphone etc) and the reviews said they made up for the crazy Recon3D cards quite well (I found a super in depth review in Russianand they really liked the card ).
> I just wanted to know your opinion as you are knowledgeable and straight forward and I like that. I also please note I realize the pro 750s aren't the best for their price range but I got them for half price!
> I'm so excited. Everything should be in the week.


I want to make it clear I wasn't trying to attack you. I never wish someone doesn't enjoy a headphone they buy but it's Ultrasone and they are very polarizing so be prepared for the worst..

I think a Xonar DG would of been fine.


----------



## Exostenza

Haha man the Internet is so crazy and people are way too touchy. I would never thought you were attacking me if it wasn't for other people saying it. You told me your opinion on a non-personal subject and I like it when people speak their mind as I get thereal iinformation. People take things so personally these days - Fi just because you don't like a headset that I bought doesn't mean I have feel offended. I appreciate your straight forward answer and wish people would just put aside all their little egos and have real, mature adult conversations without being so scared of speaking their mind because someone might get offended.

I have read about the ultrasone experience and am very anxious as it seems most people who have them absolutely no love them and there is a minority that just absolutely hates them. I am I a bit worried as which category I might fall into.

As for the sound card I heavily considered the xonar card but after reading the specs and some good in depth reviews it seems that the sound blaster z should be just as good if not better in terms of dac and amp while it also comes with a few technologies and features that make it a clear cut choice over the xonar. From my research people tend to say cmss 3d is a better gaming experience over Dolby headphone, the beam microphone is exactly what I wanted and to top it off the dedicated headphone jack with an amp on it sealed the deal as I hate plunging and unplugging my headphones/speakers all the time . plus I read the pro 750s are very source dependent and since they are a bright headset they greatly benefit from a warm source and some people said the sound blaster z has an overall warm output.

Again I'm very anxious to use the headphones and see what I think - I appreciate your honest input and will most definitely report back after I've had time to burn the cans in and get the sound blaster in from special order.

Whoa that's a big posy haha!


----------



## Exostenza

The mobile view of this site is very aggravating and I can't seem to scroll to the end of my last post to edit it so here is a double post... I sorry guys!

I wanted to add that what I gathered about the dislike for the ultrasone pro 750s is that people did not give them the required burn in time before they sold or send them back. The people that waited and burned them in for 80-100 hours pretty much unanimously say that takes care of the problem with the highs and mids - boy do I hpe they are right.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> plus I read the pro 750s are very source dependent and since they are a bright headset they greatly benefit from a warm source and some people said the sound blaster z has an overall warm output


Yeah, it's not the source eh. It's much more than Ultrasone headphones' frequency response is significantly dependent on how the headphone sits on your head.

e.g. for the PRO650

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UltrasonePRO650.pdf

Look at the gray lines. The headphones should be parallel at a right angle.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> The mobile view of this site is very aggravating and I can't seem to scroll to the end of my last post to edit it so here is a double post... I sorry guys!


Give this a read: http://www.overclock.net/t/1321512/overclock-net-mobile-quick-start-guide

If not, you can always complain aobut it. Without complaints, we can't improve the site can we?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> The mobile view of this site is very aggravating and I can't seem to scroll to the end of my last post to edit it so here is a double post... I sorry guys!
> I wanted to add that what I gathered about the dislike for the ultrasone pro 750s is that people did not give them the required burn in time before they sold or send them back. The people that waited and burned them in for 80-100 hours pretty much unanimously say that takes care of the problem with the highs and mids - boy do I hpe they are right.


thanks for understanding









so burn in is a 2 part process.

1) the person getting used to the headphone
2) the headphone it self breaking in mechanically

the frequency response does change but it's really small and it shouldn't take more than 40 hours. the way I described Ultrasone headphones doesn't really have anything to do with burn in. it's just the Ultrasone house sound or sound signature.

there are audiophiles that write and review products for websites with a lot more credibility than me and they barely acknowledge Ultrasone existence lol


----------



## Simca

Exostenza,

I see you understand how I give judgment. Most people do not and are easily offended. T'is a shame really.

Regarding your purchase, I don't think you will be disappointed. The Pro 750s are enjoyable if you're seeking enjoyment and fun from your music as opposed to critical listening and perfection or the closest thing to it. Depending on the music you listen to you may find the Ultrasones a bit metallic/tinny sounding. Depending on the genre of music you like, you may enjoy that type of sound. The soundstage is virtual as opposed to actual with S-Logic technology. I've been one of the few people that have never raved about S-Logic, but it works well enough for a closed headphone. For half price, you should be pleased with the purchase. Bass should be enjoyable and the rest of the spectrum shouldn't be too bad either. I don't believe that the amp will help you, but it won't hurt. I haven't tested the Z-series cards yet, so I can't comment on that sound card yet, but do want to hear your impressions on them. Will be difficult since you have not heard other sound cards, I think, but even comparing it to onboard should suffice.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> thanks for understanding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so burn in is a 2 part process.
> 1) the person getting used to the headphone
> 2) the headphone it self breaking in mechanically
> the frequency response does change but it's really small and it shouldn't take more than 40 hours. the way I described Ultrasone headphones doesn't really have anything to do with burn in. it's just the Ultrasone house sound or sound signature.
> there are audiophiles that write and review products for websites with a lot more credibility than me and they barely acknowledge Ultrasone existence lol


There are some "audiophiles" that haven't heard Ultrasone's too - like me









As for burn-in, that's the way I like to see it, but people will argue against it or for it - a never ending debate.
Long story short, for my reviews I give them a good 20-30hrs before judging them - almost 95% of dynamic drivers I've reviewed have changed.

Even BA drivers change.
I had 2x PFE 232's and I was A/B'ing them - one was brand new (as I had a replacement sent) and the other was used for around 1-2months.
I appreciate all drivers are "unique" in some essence, but the bass presence of my used pfe 232's was insane. It was like listening to a whole different earphone.
Thus, for me, no matter if it is headphone, earphone, or even speaker, I give them enough time to "settle in" before writing a review -or else I feel I'm not giving the audio equipment in my possession any justice.


----------



## Exostenza

@simca

People just need to learn that not everything is about them which would stop them from taking everything so personally. I like how you conduct yourself keep it up.

I will be using the cans mostly for gaming and a decent amount of music. I just really want to have great headphones for games again. At the moment I have the x-Fi extreme music from 2005 so ill have something to base it against. I was told the cans would benefit from an amp... I guess you don't think so eh?

I wanted clean, clear sound with bass for my games and the pro 750 on paper seemed to be the best choice for an all around set of cans. I really hope I like them as you guys have me worried.









@Totally Dubbed

Thanks for confirming for me that the sound does change over the burn in period. Literally every review of the Pro 750s that were positive said they waited the 80-100 hours and the brightness, or harshness of the highs and mids, was sorted out to their satisfaction. All of the people who said they didn't like them ended up selling or sending back before the chance to burn in.

Here is hoping!


----------



## lb_felipe

Is this a great setup for gaming (FPS), music (brega) and movie (erotic comedy)?

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
AKG Q 701 (Q701BLK)
AntLion ModMic 2.0
Emotiva Pro airmotiv 5 (pair)
AudioQuest DragonFly
JDS Labs Objective2 (O2)
Triad WAU12-200
Belkin Y Audio Cable (F8V235-12)


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> thanks for understanding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so burn in is a 2 part process.
> 1) the person getting used to the headphone
> 2) the headphone it self breaking in mechanically
> the frequency response does change but it's really small and it shouldn't take more than 40 hours. the way I described Ultrasone headphones doesn't really have anything to do with burn in. it's just the Ultrasone house sound or sound signature.
> there are audiophiles that write and review products for websites with a lot more credibility than me and they barely acknowledge Ultrasone existence lol


Well I REALLY, REALLY hope I like the sound of these cans. I guess this might be a reason to actually listen to headphones before you buy them, but the deals on amazon right now are out of this world









They should be in tomorrow, but the postal service is always slow so...









I was looking at the BD DT 880/990 and the AKG 701, but on paper the Ultrasone PRO 750 seemed like the best balance between everything for gaming and some people say the s-logic positioning of the drivers actually help out positional audio in pc games (I believe it is in the OP and I have read it around).

Ugh I hate waiting and now it is even worse as I have the anticipation of a new headset and the anxiety of a possible bad purchase. I hope I end up being one of the die hard Ultrasone lovers.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Is this a great setup for gaming (FPS), music (brega) and movie (erotic comedy)?
> Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
> AKG Q 701 (Q701BLK)
> AntLion ModMic 2.0
> Emotiva Pro airmotiv 5 (pair)
> AudioQuest DragonFly
> JDS Labs Objective2 (O2)
> Triad WAU12-200
> Belkin Y Audio Cable (F8V235-12)


you must really like a neutral sound signature


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> Well I REALLY, REALLY hope I like the sound of these cans. I guess this might be a reason to actually listen to headphones before you buy them, but the deals on amazon right now are out of this world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should be in tomorrow, but the postal service is always slow so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at the BD DT 880/990 and the AKG 701, but on paper the Ultrasone PRO 750 seemed like the best balance between everything for gaming and some people say the s-logic positioning of the drivers actually help out positional audio in pc games (I believe it is in the OP and I have read it around).
> Ugh I hate waiting and now it is even worse as I have the anticipation of a new headset and the anxiety of a possible bad purchase. I hope I end up being one of the die hard Ultrasone lovers.


not always. some HiFi stores don't let you listen to your own music when auditioning headphones or sometimes the stores are too noisy because they are located in a mall.

Amazon has a good return policy on headphones.

what kind of music do you listen to? or is it just for gaming?


----------



## bumblebee1980

and they don't carry every brand. the most common are Sennheiser, AKG and Grado. it's not like I can just walk in and listen to a Stax or Audeze LCD-2.

in Japan they got department stores with aisles and aisles of headphones, IEM, DAC, Amps. it's crazy!




I think India has headphone stores now. I really hope we get some in North America.


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> not always. some HiFi stores don't let you listen to your own music when auditioning headphones or sometimes the stores are too noisy because they are located in a mall.
> Amazon has a good return policy on headphones.
> what kind of music do you listen to? or is it just for gaming?


My main plan for these cans is to play games with, but if they are as comfortable as everyone says they are then I'd imagine I would be listening to a lot of music with them while im on the PC and if my Galaxy Nexus can power them I'll use them for music on trips for sure. Mainly though I bought them with gaming specifically in mind. Oh, I guess if they really rock the house I might watch some movies with them as I live in an apartment and its better for everyone if I use headphones - not too sure about that though.

As for music I listen to classic rock, alternative rock, electronic (jungle, drum and bass, dubstep, trip hop, some house), jazz, blues, blue grass, a little old school hip hop, some old school punk, some metal (classic and power)... the list goers on and on and on.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I don't think I have read or heard anybody say Ultrasone headphones are comfortable. it's either tolerable or they don't like the caliper pressure









I like to recommend headphones for a specific genre, genres or application for example Grado headphones do rock really well but it's not a headphone I would want to listen to dubstep with. you listen to a lot of music!

there is no use in getting worked up over nothing. you could love them and think i'm crazy. if you don't like them it's not the end of the world we will find a headphone you like


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> @simca
> People just need to learn that not e
> Thanks for confirming for me that the sound does change over the burn in period. Literally every review of the Pro 750s that were positive said they waited the 80-100 hours and the brightness, or harshness of the highs and mids, was sorted out to their satisfaction. All of the people who said they didn't like them ended up selling or sending back before the chance to burn in.
> Here is hoping!


My pleasure!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I don't think I have read or heard anybody say Ultrasone headphones are comfortable. it's either tolerable or they don't like the caliper pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like to recommend headphones for a specific geike


You know I would love to setup that type of shop but in the EU - nothing like it exists!


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*
> 
> Is this a great setup for gaming (FPS), music (brega) and movie (erotic comedy)?
> *Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD*
> AKG Q 701 (Q701BLK)
> AntLion ModMic 2.0
> Emotiva Pro airmotiv 5 (pair)
> AudioQuest DragonFly
> *JDS Labs Objective2 (O2)
> Triad WAU12-200*
> Belkin Y Audio Cable (F8V235-12)


i don't have a long history of equipment to compare them to, just chiming to say the Titanium HD and O2 sound great together to my ears. regarding the WAU12-200, if you're purchasing from JDS Labs it's fine since it's what they ship the O2 with. if you're buying it separately you might as well spend the extra $5.45 and get the WAU16-1000. the O2 designer has stated the WAU12-200 is suitable and actually measures at ~13.5 VAC instead of the rated 12 VAC, but like i said if you're ordering separately might as well get the more appropriate wall wart. FYI i use the WAU12-200 and have no problems. why do you need the Dragonfly in addition to the Titanium HD and O2? for laptop use? i see you have a y-cable so you understand there is no way to switch between headphone out and line out on the Titanium HD. it's one or the other. oh and.....erotic comedy?


----------



## bumblebee1980

the Dragonfly is long and heavy. it doesn't sit straight in a USB port so if your going to buy it get an extension cable like this


----------



## BeerPowered

So its been over a week with my DT990 PROs and they sound amazing. The Fiio E7 definitely needs to go as it isn't good enough to drive them. At max volume it is barely loud enough. So I will get a E17 in hopes that they are louder with a little better audio quality.

The Titanium HD worked out really well. Just as good as my old Auzentech Forte, maybe a bit better. Been using the front audio header instead of plugging directly into the card.

The DT990s have really good bass now, since they have had time to burn in. The highs are more clear than the mids, but the mids do sound really good.

Tested with various Melodic Trance, Techno-Rap, and Symphony Orchestra which are my favorite 3 genres.

Skyward Sword is a joy to play on my PC, the whole soundtrack really comes alive with the DT990s and Titanium HD.

Dishonored I can easily tell footsteps and breathing as it comes near and goes further away.


----------



## Porter_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> The Titanium HD worked out really well. Just as good as my old Auzentech Forte, maybe a bit better. Been using the front audio header instead of plugging directly into the card.


any audible noise doing this? the last time i used the front header of a case (~2007) there was tons of EMI/static/hissing. try plugging directly into the Ti HD and see if it sounds better.

also, your avatar is hilarious.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> any audible noise doing this? the last time i used the front header of a case (~2007) there was tons of EMI/static/hissing. try plugging directly into the Ti HD and see if it sounds better.
> also, your avatar is hilarious.


Only if the plug is not fully inserted into the jack. I do admit the front audio jack on my 600t feels really cheap.

Plugged into both jacks and it's about the same. Directly into the card might be .00000000000000000000001% better.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Dragonfly is long and heavy. it doesn't sit straight in a USB port so if your going to buy it get an extension cable like this
> ]


I've heard so much about it, and saw this in best buy when i was in the USA. Is it actually any good?
As I don't believe head-fi hype lol.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I've heard so much about it, and saw this in best buy when i was in the USA. Is it actually any good?
> As I don't believe head-fi hype lol.


if I had a store I would carry it. I have only listened to it once but I want to buy one for my dad. it's a ESS Sabre32 chip with integrated headphone amplifier. it's got fixed and variable output and Gordon Rankin from Wavelength Audio designed it and wrote the firmware.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> So its been over a week with my DT990 PROs and they sound amazing. The Fiio E7 definitely needs to go as it isn't good enough to drive them. At max volume it is barely loud enough. So I will get a E17 in hopes that they are louder with a little better audio quality.
> 
> The Titanium HD worked out really well. Just as good as my old Auzentech Forte, maybe a bit better. Been using the front audio header instead of plugging directly into the card.
> 
> The DT990s have really good bass now, since they have had time to burn in. The highs are more clear than the mids, but the mids do sound really good.
> 
> Tested with various Melodic Trance, Techno-Rap, and Symphony Orchestra which are my favorite 3 genres.
> 
> Skyward Sword is a joy to play on my PC, the whole soundtrack really comes alive with the DT990s and Titanium HD.
> 
> Dishonored I can easily tell footsteps and breathing as it comes near and goes further away.


Your DT990s shouldn't be that quiet....That's concerning unless you're deaf, but the e7 is really more of a DAC than a headphone amplifier. You should invest in a better amp.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your DT990s shouldn't be that quiet....That's concerning unless you're deaf, but the e7 is really more of a DAC than a headphone amplifier. You should invest in a better amp.


Nothing to do with Deafness. I have better than avg hearing according to the Air Force yearly hearing tests. The Fiio E7 just sucks, it can't sufficiently power the DT990 PRO 250ohm. I'm looking at the E17, maybe something better in the same price ranges that is a DAC/AMP.


----------



## Simca

You'd be fine with the Fiio E10 for the 250 ohm version.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeerPowered*
> 
> Nothing to do with Deafness. I have better than avg hearing according to the Air Force yearly hearing tests. The Fiio E7 just sucks, it can't sufficiently power the DT990 PRO 250ohm. I'm looking at the E17, maybe something better in the same price ranges that is a DAC/AMP.


If you don't need a DAC, get the E11 instead.

As for price range - if you don't need portability you could look at something like the objective o2.


----------



## BeerPowered

I need it for my Sony Walkman NWZ-E464. Which I chose based on the 50 hour battery life. DAC and AMP is needed.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you must really like a neutral sound signature


















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Porter_*
> 
> i don't have a long history of equipment to compare them to, just chiming to say the Titanium HD and O2 sound great together to my ears. regarding the WAU12-200, if you're purchasing from JDS Labs it's fine since it's what they ship the O2 with. if you're buying it separately you might as well spend the extra $5.45 and get the WAU16-1000. the O2 designer has stated the WAU12-200 is suitable and actually measures at ~13.5 VAC instead of the rated 12 VAC, but like i said if you're ordering separately might as well get the more appropriate wall wart. FYI i use the WAU12-200 and have no problems. why do you need the Dragonfly in addition to the Titanium HD and O2? for laptop use? i see you have a y-cable so you understand there is no way to switch between headphone out and line out on the Titanium HD. it's one or the other. oh and.....erotic comedy?


Thank you for your input on power supply.

For desktop use conjugated with loud speakers. That TiHD doesn't toggle between two analog outputs, keeping the priority always for one.

That said, I have to use an external DAC for loud speakers while I to use a TiHD for headphones and to switch between them by software. Do you know?

Also because the DragonFly has a *analog* volume control. That is useful for powered Airmotiv5 dispensing a preamp.

Those cables in Y are order to connect the DAC to the loud speakers. Just it.

What do you think about that?

PS: Yes, erotic or porn. I don't know how you say there in America.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Dragonfly is long and heavy. it doesn't sit straight in a USB port so if your going to buy it get an extension cable like this
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Is it necessary even if this DAC is connected in the rear of PC?


----------



## bumblebee1980

no you can plug it into any USB port or use a USB extension cable and plug that into any USB port. in fact I would plug it in the front of the case just to keep it away from all the power supplies at the bottom or rear of the case.


----------



## iamwardicus

I don't want to make a new thread so I'll just sort of ask here - will the DTA-100a drive a pair of Polk RTi4 speakers? I lost my P163s to my home theater system and I *hate* my crappy harman/kardon cheapie computer speakers. Trying to find the best way to get a system for my PC going. 2.0 for now, 2.1 again a bit later.


----------



## Exostenza

At the risk of getting yelled at by the audiophiles if you want good quality *computer* speakers the best I could find were the creative gigaworks t40 version 2.

On another note I got my ultrasone pro 750 in yesterday and have been listening to my favorite albums in lossless for the last two days. So nice to be back in music heaven. I'm not blown away withe pro 750 but in my computer they sound godly and I have very happy with them (I only paid 225 so I didn't shell out crazy amounts for them).

The sound baster z I ordered should be in next week so I'll be able to comment on the difference of sound from the xfi I have. I did, however, buy it for the features and not necessarily much better sound.


----------



## Simca

To better phrase your statement, "The Gigaworks T40 V2 are very good speakers for the price."

Saying they're the best is never good, even if it's followed by "I could find."


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> At the risk of getting yelled at by the audiophiles if you want good quality *computer* speakers the best I could find were the creative gigaworks t40 version 2.
> On another note I got my ultrasone pro 750 in yesterday and have been listening to my favorite albums in lossless for the last two days. So nice to be back in music heaven. I'm not blown away withe pro 750 but in my computer they sound godly and I have very happy with them (I only paid 225 so I didn't shell out crazy amounts for them).
> The sound baster z I ordered should be in next week so I'll be able to comment on the difference of sound from the xfi I have. I did, however, buy it for the features and not necessarily much better sound.


I really love my Z-5500's








With a little EQ on my DX/D1 they sound sublime.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> At the risk of getting yelled at by the audiophiles if you want good quality *computer* speakers the best I could find were the creative gigaworks t40 version 2.
> On another note I got my ultrasone pro 750 in yesterday and have been listening to my favorite albums in lossless for the last two days. So nice to be back in music heaven. I'm not blown away withe pro 750 but in my computer they sound godly and I have very happy with them (I only paid 225 so I didn't shell out crazy amounts for them).
> The sound baster z I ordered should be in next week so I'll be able to comment on the difference of sound from the xfi I have. I did, however, buy it for the features and not necessarily much better sound.
> 
> 
> 
> I really love my Z-5500's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a little EQ on my DX/D1 they sound sublime.
Click to expand...

i bet they do.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> To better phrase your statement, "The Gigaworks T40 V2 are very good speakers for the price."
> Saying they're the best is never good, even if it's followed by "I could find."


Hi simca! What are your thoughts on the t40 series II? I'm considering buying them instead of the Krk rokit 5 g2 because of space limitations.
Did you get to try the creative Z, Zx? (TiHD vs Z) Is the ZxR supposed to be the replacement of the TiHD, or will there be a "Z HD" further down the road?


----------



## Simca

Unfortunately I have not had the chance to test the new Creative cards, but if you want to buy me one to review, by all means let me know.









I would rather buy Klipsch ProMedia 2.1s for the price of the Gigaworks...but they're still pretty good speakers.


----------



## Exostenza

@Simca For the price and considering my space/no subwoofer limitations the Gigaworks T40 S2 are good sounding speakers and I have been enjoying them for quite some time now on my X-Fi.









@ ARIKOmagic Simca definitely knows more than me on this subject, but I have really enjoyed my Giga T40 S2 speakers and it sounds like you have some of the same limitations which I was working with when I bought them. As for the Sound Blaster Z my Z (base model) should be in tomorrow and I will let you know how it stacks up to my old X-Fi. I have heard very good things so far about the Z series which is great considering how bad the Recon3D series of cards were. It seems like Creative has listened to the customer base and the negative reviews as people are saying they really are going to finally have a replacement for the X-Fi series.

Now I am off to listen to my music on new Ultrasones


----------



## Caz

Strange question.

I have had a Xonar D1 for a while now (May 2012), but I am still a little tentative to use the Audio Center application. I am talking about with music especially.

In the past I have turned HF and GX on so that it is PURE music. But recently, I have tried messing with EQ, especially with Dubstep and some rock. Also and more importantly, in the past I use to use pure SPDIF qualities, using just PCM with everything else off while using headphones (FP Headphone) (Shure SRH440).

What should I be using to optimize my experience? I have experimented with Dolby Headphone/Pro Logic IIx/7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter and even the DH1-3 settings, but I am still unsure on what is best.

Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caz*
> 
> Strange question.
> I have had a Xonar D1 for a while now (May 2012), but I am still a little tentative to use the Audio Center application. I am talking about with music especially.
> In the past I have turned HF and GX on so that it is PURE music. But recently, I have tried messing with EQ, especially with Dubstep and some rock. Also and more importantly, in the past I use to use pure SPDIF qualities, using just PCM with everything else off while using headphones (FP Headphone) (Shure SRH440).
> What should I be using to optimize my experience? I have experimented with Dolby Headphone/Pro Logic IIx/7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter and even the DH1-3 settings, but I am still unsure on what is best.
> Let me know what you guys think.


On my home rig with just the Xonar ST I leave everything off, I made custom preset eqs for all my headphones, and then just make sure the amp is at the <64 Ohms settings (Don't have cans that need anything more here). Every so often I put on Hi-Fi and use the monitors for pure flac listening but with my headphones I use them for more pleasure than business, just tailor it to your likings. I wouldn't touch the dolby pro logic, dolby headphone, or 7.1 since all your source will usually be 2.0 stereo so no need to use effects on it. Make sure you got audio channel to 2 channels and sample rate to match your source files and EQ to your tastes (Unless you want to make it neutral, then adjust accordingly)


----------



## Exostenza

*I first posted this here, but I also started a new thread so that people who do not read this thread could see it and leave feedback - I hope that is not a problem for any of the mods.

So, I upgraded from an X-Fi XtremeMusic (real-X-Fi card) to a Sound Blaster Z yesterday and would like to give my first impressions.

I have been using the X-Fi since 2005 so I would say I am pretty used to how it sounds and have noticed several differences between the two right away. Please note I am not an audiophile and have no training in audio, so this is simply coming from a music, movie and gaming lover's perspective.

Music

First of all the X-Fi delivers a more neutral and maybe even "tinny" sound experience. It sounds like the X-Fi does not add anything to the sound that it is putting out and because of this the sound could be described maybe as more accurate, neutral tinny, flat, I would even go as far as to say some what metallic (cold and hard) if that makes sense. The first thing I noticed about the Sound Blaster Z is that all the sound is warmer, more full and encompassing than the sound from the X-Fi. I could see how some people would say that the X-Fi is better because it sounds more accurate although I like the sound from the Sound Blaster Z better as it sounds like it has much more of a presence to my ears and the full range of audio seems to really reveal itself from this card. Everything is distinguished like the X-Fi, but some way melded together much better to make a full audio package out of the sound instead of distinctive audio. Again, I could see audiophiles liking the X-Fi sound more as it seems more technically accurate, but to my music, gaming and movie loving ears the Sound Blaster Z is the VERY clear winner from first impressions.

Games

Now there is something I have to talk about and I know OCN is going to find this interesting. I am playing a lot of Day Z lately and I have the audio samples up to 128 in the preferences up from 32 as I know the X-Fi is supposed to be able to handle it. The first thing I noticed in Day Z is that not only is all the sound SO *VERY* MUCH more clear (almost opposite of how I described the sound in the music section, but not quite as its not tinny or metallic like the X-Fi) coming out of this card, but there are WAY more sounds being played as well. I can hear all of the zombies around me, the trees, wind, birds and other environmental sounds are way more prominent and there are way more of them. I don't know what is technically going on here, but it sounds like the X-Fi was not putting out even half of the sounds that this new card is (which is odd because technically is can process way more sounds - although I guess its all done on the CPU now anyways). The game environment sounds much more realistic and lush compared to the X-Fi although the down side is that it sounds like none of the sounds are close or distant - they all have a set volume and do not seem to fade in or out from that volume so the zombie that is right next to me may be just as loud as the zombie 10 feet from me (this might be placebo as everything is much louder - so I can't be too sure of this yet). It definitely feels like everything feels much more realistic and prominent on the Sound Blaster Z while there are way more sounds playing at once although the ability to accurately hear how close or far something is coming from CMSS3D to SBX Pro Studio Surround on my headphones has been severely compromised which might be a huge deal breaker for most gamers.

Note: I have only tested in Day Z (Arma 2 Engine), so these results might not be representative of all games. I will try to comment on this later.

Movies/Shows

I personally have the problem of not being able to hear voices very well on top of the terrible mixing/mastering going on in Hollywood which makes it even harder to hear voices. The super easy stereo surround helps me gets my audio from the back speakers as well to emphasize the voices (was no issue either on the X-Fi) which is nice, but what I like the most is the option called Dialogue Plus which enhances the voices *without* changing how the movie or show sounds. I realize this is just an advanced equalizer setting, but since I cannot do this on my own it is very useful and it has a slider to allow for more or less emphasis on voices to get it just right. In combination with the Dialogue Plus doing its job well there is the smart volume which is a tweaked version of the SVM on the X-Fi. This works much better and has 3 presets - normal, loud, and night which allows the user to keep an effective volume across the board. I like this a lot because without these options I watch movies and some scenes the sound is so quiet I have to crank it up to hear the voices and then there is some action and I almost soil myself while the neighbors have clearly been woken up. One last thing to note here is that the drivers are working flawlessly on Windows 7 X64 and very simple, straight forward and not bloated which is a first from Creative according to what I have experienced and heard.

The options aside (which is a huge improvement over the X-Fi options) the sound can b e talked about the very same way the music is spoken about. The sound is much more full and encompassing while the warmer signature of it compared to the X-Fi makes the listening more of a pleasure and easier on the ears. I like it better than the sound signature of the X-Fi, but audiophiles may not due to the apparently colored nature of the sound signature.

Conclusion

I was anxious waiting for the Sound Blaster Z to come in the mail as I really thought that I might have just thrown away 100 bucks from all the doom saying people have been spewing about how newer sound cards are all codec based and don't have real sound processing like the old X-Fi cards. What I have experienced so far has been almost all positive (only the one issue of gaming sound which might only be in Day Z/Arma 2 - I will test more and comment on this) and I must say that the 100 dollars have been well spent and I am going to be happy never using the X-Fi again. There is a marked improvement in sound texture and quality to a non-audiophile's ears and usability in terms of driver features and hardware features such as a dedicated headphones jack with an amp and the extremely well working beam forming microphone.

For someone looking to upgrade from the X-Fi or for the person who finally wants to ditch their crappy onboard sound I can easily say, so far, I recommend this card. Although I must note that the gaming depth perception might prove to be a real issue and as I have already noted I will try and test this more in order to come to a conclusion on the matter.

That was my longest post ever


----------



## Simca

Was a good post and I think that post will help a lot of people. I'll link this post in the thread.


----------



## Triniboi82

question answered


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Was a good post and I think that post will help a lot of people. I'll link this post in the thread.


Your approval means a lot as you are a very straight forward and knowledgeable person.









I am maintaining the post with additional information and follow ups in its own thread if you want to link to it that one would be much better.

You can find it here: First Impressions: X-Fi XtremeMusic -> Sound Blaster Z


----------



## Stalwart

Simca, thank you for creating and maintaining this thread. It's helped me tremendously. I've recently purchased the ATH-M50 headphones which I'll only be using with my computer.

However, I'm stuck between getting the ASUS Xonar DG ($24) vs FiiO E10 ($55). What's the difference between something like a soundcard and the E10? Does the E10 replace the need for a separate soundcard?


----------



## Simca

The e10 is portable. Has a more powerful amp than the DG, but should be right there with the DG in terms of SQ give or take. DG is cheaper. E10 avoids EMI. DG better for gaming.


----------



## Stalwart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The e10 is portable. Has a more powerful amp than the DG, but should be right there with the DG in terms of SQ give or take. DG is cheaper. E10 avoids EMI. DG better for gaming.


Thanks for the reply.

What about this card? It's only $50. Would it be a better buy than the DG?

Creative Labs SoundBlaster Recon3D 70SB135000000 Sound Card - PCIe, 5.1-CH Audio, Dolby Digital Live Encoding, CrystalVoice Enhancement, THX TruStudio Prosound, Sound Core3D Processor
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1766713&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CJ_A4bmTpLQCFYs7Mgody3IAaQ


----------



## Exostenza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stalwart*
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> What about this card? It's only $50. Would it be a better buy than the DG?
> Creative Labs SoundBlaster Recon3D 70SB135000000 Sound Card - PCIe, 5.1-CH Audio, Dolby Digital Live Encoding, CrystalVoice Enhancement, THX TruStudio Prosound, Sound Core3D Processor
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1766713&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CJ_A4bmTpLQCFYs7Mgody3IAaQ


The Recon3D was probably the biggest flop in sound card history.

Stay very, very far away.


----------



## Stalwart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exostenza*
> 
> The Recon3D was probably the biggest flop in sound card history.
> Stay very, very far away.


Thanks for the warning. I got the ASUS XONAR DS


----------



## groomdedz

Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Simca

Oh, the fail. Head-fi, your uselessness is becoming dumbfounding.

http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-over-ear


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Oh, the fail. Head-fi, your uselessness is becoming dumbfounding.
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-over-ear


have to pay the bills somehow.


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Oh, the fail. Head-fi, your uselessness is becoming dumbfounding.
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-over-ear


Here is what I find truly funny: The site posts an article with the author's recommended products (half of which are crap) and many members here quote the site and such recommendations like the "gospel." Amazing as always........


----------



## bumblebee1980

http://www.head-fi.org/a/advertise


----------



## Stalwart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/advertise


LOL

That's pretty ballsy of them to have that out in the open.


----------



## lb_felipe

OFF TOPIC

I clicked on the text of a product in someone's signature and then, accidentally, I removed two images (the product is Logitech G710+). I'm sorry and I don't understand how it was possible. And also I was unable to undo the crap I did.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Oh, the fail. Head-fi, your uselessness is becoming dumbfounding.
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-over-ear


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> have to pay the bills somehow.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> Here is what I find truly funny: The site posts an article with the author's recommended products (half of which are crap) and many members here quote the site and such recommendations like the "gospel." Amazing as always........


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/advertise


Does make me laugh when I see things like that from sites.
These "holiday guides" from sites like Head-fi, are utter rubbish - they are always pointed towards: "Who pays us money, so that we can advertise them some more" - check how many Sennheiser things there are in that list, and how heavily advertised V-Moda is.
Really makes me laugh - but the best thing, is that users follow suit. They jump in the bandwagon, in which I call "head-fi hype" - The V-Moda M-100, WITHOUT even being released had almost 300-500k views on the thread.

That site is all about protecting their investment, promoting advertisers, and not encouraging users to put more into the community. If you've been on head-fi you'll know that it is now filled with people asking "what is the best headphone for under $50" and that's it. With usually the same people repeating themselves. There are barely any people who are actually ADDING to the community. I know maybe a handful, myself included (before I got banned) that actually added reviews, and helped people.

Anyway...


----------



## Simca

IMO, they just put headphones that looked "good" to the average consumer on there. They didn't care about audio fidelity at all.


----------



## axipher

Just ordered a Lepai 2020+, looking for some <$150 Book shelfs to go with it that provide full-range, and just enough bass for listening pleasure that I won't need a separate sub-woofer. It's just going in a small computer room about 8' x 8'.

I'll be using my Xonar DG's front panel output to the Lepai and keep the rear output for my heaphones for gaming. The speakers will be used for watching the odd TV episode, mostly comedies, documentaries, and the odd anime. Music wise, it will be mostly country and classic rock formy own listening pleasure while at my computer. Not looking to fill the entire house with sound or feel my desk shaking.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.


I actually really like the look of those without the cover, and about the right size for travelling as well.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Thing I like about them the most is the front port, rears suck. I can't recommend them myself, haven't tried them.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually really like the look of those without the cover, and about the right size for travelling as well.
Click to expand...

Get used to them with the covers on because you won't be playing them with them off.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually really like the look of those without the cover, and about the right size for travelling as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get used to them with the covers on because you won't be playing them with them off.
Click to expand...

Why is that?


----------



## SirWooties

I'm about to purchase the Samson Go-Mic to use for gaming. Thoughts? Is it any good?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually really like the look of those without the cover, and about the right size for travelling as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get used to them with the covers on because you won't be playing them with them off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is that?
Click to expand...

Unless you want dust on your drivers which is bad, you'll keep the cover on.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Wouldn't it kinda, vibrate off?


----------



## bumblebee1980

the speaker has a dust cap.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Wouldn't it kinda, vibrate off?


Does a fan blow dust off itself?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Does a fan blow dust off itself?


Most of it, yes.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Does a fan blow dust off itself?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of it, yes.
Click to expand...

What fans you using?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200028 This one, idled down to 5 volts with my nice fan controller. Got so many though, the only dust that stays in the case gets plastered on.


----------



## Simca

But dust still gets on it.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Does it hurt anything? Not with the fans at any rate.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Does make me laugh when I see things like that from sites.
> These "holiday guides" from sites like Head-fi, are utter rubbish - they are always pointed towards: "Who pays us money, so that we can advertise them some more" - check how many Sennheiser things there are in that list, and how heavily advertised V-Moda is.
> Really makes me laugh - but the best thing, is that users follow suit. They jump in the bandwagon, in which I call "head-fi hype" - The V-Moda M-100, WITHOUT even being released had almost 300-500k views on the thread.
> That site is all about protecting their investment, promoting advertisers, and not encouraging users to put more into the community. If you've been on head-fi you'll know that it is now filled with people asking "what is the best headphone for under $50" and that's it. With usually the same people repeating themselves. There are barely any people who are actually ADDING to the community. I know maybe a handful, myself included (before I got banned) that actually added reviews, and helped people.
> Anyway...


Lol. The AKG K167 thread is worse. I had the displeasure of listening to them the other day and they suck....bad. Everyone there says they are crystal clear, and then turn around and says that the bowers and Wilkins P5s are muddy. Sometimes I wonder about those guys........

The problem is you still have a lot of the old guys on that website that really know their stuff. So to hear the good advice, you have to wade through the bad.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Lol. The AKG K167 thread is worse. I had the displeasure of listening to them the other day and they suck....bad. Everyone there says they are crystal clear, and then turn around and says that the bowers and Wilkins P5s are muddy. Sometimes I wonder about those guys........
> The problem is you still have a lot of the old guys on that website that really know their stuff. So to hear the good advice, you have to wade through the bad.


That's very true.
There are a lot of people with knowledge on there...but it would have been nice for the admins to show or implement some system of them being "appreciated" - and no don't come back to me with "custom titles"...

Once one of the members had:
"Not endorsed by any raper"

I laughed so hard when I saw that custom title. Of course within 2-3 days it was changed to "rapper"
And his title...no idea where it came from, but he posted every now and then in the "anti-beats" thread.

Like on OCN, I like how we have flames and rep. It is in some way showing people appreciating your help/work. Like a sense of achievement of getting to 5 flames.
On head-fi you got the rank after 1,500 posts...
I achieved that within a year or so, but I wasn't on for a year....

ie. Look at my post count and my join date on OCN...does that really mean I'm a "Overcloking supremus"? No, far from it. But I got rep showing, that I've been helping people, and a flame to further back up that claim.

Anyway, I'll stop talking about head-fi - I got too much to laugh about from that site, that it makes me happy that I was "forced" not to post there any more.

In headphone news.
Listening to my ZO2 with my new MJ2 custom cable form Epiphany Acoustics, and my Denon C400's - Loving the combo!


----------



## lb_felipe

In your guess, which of these setups is the best?

Setup 1:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
AKG Q 701 (Q701BLK)
AntLion ModMic 2.0
Emotiva Pro airmotiv 5 (pair)
AudioQuest DragonFly
JDS Labs Objective2 (O2)
Triad WAU16-1000
Belkin Y Audio Cable (F8V235-12)
Note: That cable is to interconnect the DragonFly to airmotiv 5s. For other interconnects, bundled cables should be used.

Setup 2:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
AKG Q 701 (Q701BLK)
AntLion ModMic 2.0
NHT SuperPower 2.1 Desktop System
JDS Labs Standalone ODAC
JDS Labs Objective2 (O2)
Triad WAU16-1000
Monoprice 12ft 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M Cable (2008)
Note: That cable is to interconnect the PVC PC to Super 8. For other interconnects, bundled cables should be used.


----------



## Haruspex

I am thinking of buying new speakers for my PC, i was looking at the m-audio av40 and i have some questions about the available connections of the speakers.

I downloaded the manual for the speakers to see exactly the connections that are available. I want to connect both my PC and my XBOX 360 to these speakers. As far i can tell i will use an rca to 3,5mm jack cable to connect to the sound card and a rca female to 3,5mm to connect the XBOX to the front aux port.

However i see another connection in the back of the speakers, called "trs". Can i use some kind of adapter to connect the XBOX rca cables there? I mainly want to use this connection to reduce the cable clutter.

Also how these speakers fair for standard stereo music compared to Logitech G51 i have now? Years ago i was using an entry level hi-fi (nothing special or expensive) for listening to music and remember it sounded great compared to any PC speakers i ever bought. So i wanted to upgrade my audio setup to reach again this sound quality. So do you guys think that these speakers are good for this purpose considering i am on a budget? Also the sound card i am planning to use with them is the x-fi xtremegamer.

Last question, as i see in the amazon uk, there is also a version II of these speakers, both are about the same price. Does anyone know the differences (if any) between version 1 & version 2? Thanks and sorry for the long post.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Haruspex*
> 
> I am thinking of buying new speakers for my PC, i was looking at the m-audio av40 and i have some questions about the available connections of the speakers.
> I downloaded the manual for the speakers to see exactly the connections that are available. I want to connect both my PC and my XBOX 360 to these speakers. As far i can tell i will use an rca to 3,5mm jack cable to connect to the sound card and a rca female to 3,5mm to connect the XBOX to the front aux port.
> However i see another connection in the back of the speakers, called "trs". Can i use some kind of adapter to connect the XBOX rca cables there? I mainly want to use this connection to reduce the cable clutter.
> Also how these speakers fair for standard stereo music compared to Logitech G51 i have now? Years ago i was using an entry level hi-fi (nothing special or expensive) for listening to music and remember it sounded great compared to any PC speakers i ever bought. So i wanted to upgrade my audio setup to reach again this sound quality. So do you guys think that these speakers are good for this purpose considering i am on a budget? Also the sound card i am planning to use with them is the x-fi xtremegamer.
> Last question, as i see in the amazon uk, there is also a version II of these speakers, both are about the same price. Does anyone know the differences (if any) between version 1 & version 2? Thanks and sorry for the long post.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/HOSA-CPR203-Dual-4-Inch-Plugs/dp/B000068O18/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1356253222&sr=8-8


----------



## bumblebee1980

oh and the latest version doesn't have a Fuse, Bass Boost, Removable Power Cord and they are 15 watts per channel instead of 20.


----------



## Haruspex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> oh and the latest version doesn't have a Fuse, Bass Boost, Removable Power Cord and they are 15 watts per channel instead of 20.


I see thanks, so version 2 is worst compared to the first, good to know that.


----------



## eTheBlack

One question about *Audio Technica AT2020*
That is about USB in OP? Or XLR to 6.35mm?

It would be for *Asus Essence STX* soundcard. Headphones would be *Audio Technica A700*


----------



## bumblebee1980

it's XLR and needs phantom power. Essence doesn't have enough and you can't use adapter.


----------



## bumblebee1980

actually you can use an adapter but the Essence line in / microphone combo can only power 5V. it also uses a AC'97 codec which is lame. you shouldn't even be using that card to begin with.


----------



## eTheBlack

Ummm, I'm a gamer, but I also love music, and of course movies, so I kinda find this card best or do you know better than OP?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eTheBlack*
> 
> Ummm, I'm a gamer, but I also love music, and of course movies, so I kinda find this card best or do you know better than OP?


your headphones are really easy to drive. if the Essence is anything like the Fiio E9 it can drive 800 mW into a 32 ohm load and the output impedance is 10 ohm. the card was designed many years ago. the headphone amplifier wasn't good to begin with. it's just hard to recommend this card anymore.


----------



## Davitz

Well, i'm finally ditching my previous ways of swearing by gaming headsets and i'm looking into a good desktop mic and a pair of good headphones.

I currently have a Asus Xonar Phoebus (updated drivers so there's no crashes or sillyness) my first choice was a Xonar Essence STX, but every dealer I tried was sold out.

And i'll be replacing my Razer Tiamat 7.1.

My main focus is gaming and streaming with occasional music playing. I mainly listen to classic rock and metal. And admittedly, i'm a noob when it comes to audio so help and constructive input is appreciated.

Here's what i'm looking at so far:

AKG D-5 Mic

Ultrasone Pro 550 < I need input on this, I'm comfortable spending up to $300 +/- $50 on a set of headphones and i'm not really sure what the best set for my needs are that the phoebus can drive or a dedicated amp + headphone combo. I'm also open to going above $300 if it will really be worth the extra coin.

So please OCN, help me spend my money xD


----------



## Totally Dubbed

^ I can't advise that much, but a cheap USB Logitech desktop mic works like a treat for me - I use it all the time for video commentaries - maybe having an actual mic is a bit of an overkill isn't it?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I can't advise the Logitech Desktop mic, they made a huge amount with wires soldered backwards on the amplification component, leading to it being super quiet.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> I can't advise the Logitech Desktop mic, they made a huge amount with wires soldered backwards on the amplification component, leading to it being super quiet.


Haven't had any problems with 2 sets (one for me and one for my mum) for over 3yrs now


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> I can't advise the Logitech Desktop mic, they made a huge amount with wires soldered backwards on the amplification component, leading to it being super quiet.


Pretty sure that's the CHEAP logitech USB mics that are like 6 dollars. not the ones that retail for 20 but are found at 13 on ebay.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Pretty sure that's the CHEAP logitech USB mics that are like 6 dollars. not the ones that retail for 20 but are found at 13 on ebay.


This is the one I have - Price is way too much atm:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-980186-0914-USB-Desktop-Microphone/dp/B0000ATCOR


----------



## Simca

I bought that one as well. I'm aware of the mic problem he's speaking about but pretty sure that is the cheaper version

Sent from my DKOSP using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I bought that one as well. I'm aware of the mic problem he's speaking about but pretty sure that is the cheaper version
> Sent from my DKOSP using Tapatalk 2


ahh the one that is not a USB, but rather a 3.5mm connection?
I did buy that one too...and that one thoroughly sucked - if that's what he is referring to, then I'm with him on that one lol.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Nope, the usb one.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Nope, the usb one.


muy interesante - no idea then!
But avoid the 3.5mm one regardless


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Yep. Other people have had the problem as well.

Quote:


> Having exact same problem here, and have a solution. I recently ordered 2 of these while in the process of a new computer build. Once connected to my new computer, I tried a slew of various settings and could only get it moderately operational when using Ventrillo or Skype due to their software preamps. I normally don't tear into things under warrenty, however I figured there was a simple solution inside, and there was. Whoever is assembling these, is soldering the microphone elements in reverse. These mics have a preamplified mic element that needs a small voltage (of correct polarity) to actually preamplify. With it reversed, the element has no initial preamplification. I took out my trusty soldering iron and reversed the connections, and it came to life. I removed my 2nd microphone from the box and connected it to my computer .... same thing. So 2 mics in a row with the same problem.
> 
> Note: When viewing the circuit board from the component side with the switch at the bottom, the mic connection labeled "M1" will be on the left side. The M1 left solder pad should be the center conductor of the mic, and the right pad will be the shield. Hope this helps. GL.


http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Headphones-Headsets-Microphones/Logitech-USB-Desktop-Microphone-and-low-gain-windows-7/td-p/826667

Tried repairing it, but my dad's not the best al soldering, and of course I suck worse, so I never ended getting it fixed.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Yep. Other people have had the problem as well.
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Headphones-Headsets-Microphones/Logitech-USB-Desktop-Microphone-and-low-gain-windows-7/td-p/826667
> 
> Tried repairing it, but my dad's not the best al soldering, and of course I suck worse, so I never ended getting it fixed.


quite interesting! Cheers for sharing


----------



## Davitz

Hm I actually picked up one of those USB mics that Totally Dubbed linked. Got it after the mic on the headset i use for my "lantop" blew. Works really well so far, guess i'll just snag it from the carrying bag xD

That aside,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davitz*
> I currently have a Asus Xonar Phoebus (fully updated drivers etc so no crashes and no issues to date) and i'll be replacing my Tiamat 7.1
> 
> Ultrasone Pro 550 < I need input on this,
> 
> I'm comfortable spending up to $300 +/- $50 on a set of headphones and i'm not really sure what the best set for my needs are that the phoebus can drive or a dedicated amp + headphone combo. *I'm also open to going above $300 if it will really be worth the extra coin.*
> 
> So please OCN, help me spend my money xD


Found a Canadian dealer that carries the AKG Q701, although would the phoebus be able to drive the Q701s properly?

(Specs for the Phoebus: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=40&item_id=048731)


----------



## element72

Can you please care to explain why the Titanium HD is the best gaming sound card? You also endorsed Creative cards. A large amount of gamers are buying the Asus Xonar DG, because I assume for the Dolby Headphone aspect. Furthermore, I can see it doesn't cost much either. Maybe I don't fully understand what you mean by a gaming DAC. Are you including competitive gaming? If so, then you said it yourself that if you want wallhack-like sound use Dolby Headphone, but if you want realistic sounds use cmss-3D. Can please make it clear on what you mean


----------



## exzacklyright

How do the AD900's compare to the AD700's?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exzacklyright*
> 
> How do the AD900's compare to the AD700's?


Not worth the extra cost.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *element72*
> 
> Are you including competitive gaming? If so, then you said it yourself that if you want wallhack-like sound use Dolby Headphone, but if you want realistic sounds use cmss-3D. Can please make it clear on what you mean


That's exactly what I mean. CMSS-3D accounts for the environment because it was designed to be a positionally based surround sound DSPs unlike Dolby Headphone, which is based on speaker placement.


----------



## element72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> That's exactly what I mean. CMSS-3D accounts for the environment because it was designed to be a positionally based surround sound DSPs unlike Dolby Headphone, which is based on speaker placement.


I just bought the Titanium HD because Creative's DACs were recommended for gaming by Simca. I wish she mentioned a separate section for Dolby Headphone. I play Counter Strike and Left4dead 2. There are a lot of walls, high and low points, so you have to rely heavily on directional sound. Now I'm considering upgrading my HD555 to Q701 and getting a mixamp that has dolby headphone







Do you agree with what I'm about to do? I feel like I just wasted my money on the Titanium HD. Although, I guess I could keep it and have both types of virtual surround sound









Anyways... this thread has be really helpful, so I'm grateful for that







. Any thoughts on the amp I should get for the Q701 I'll be getting soon? I've been reading up on head-fi and I think people are using the Astro Mixamp, but I want to know if that's the best option I have, if not, is there something cheaper to get for what I want? I just want to use Dolby Headphone + unlock the potential of the Q701.


----------



## Simca

Left 4 Dead 2+Asus is not a winning combination.


----------



## adridu59

Would you guys recommend an FiiO E10 or ESI Dr. DAC nano?


----------



## doc2142

D100 or D200? I want something that at high volume wont get distorted with bluetooth.


----------



## TwistedTime

Excellent guide! Just what I was looking for.

But I think I need a little more advise.

I have always used the on board sound with cheap 20$ or so headphones, But while planning, during, and after building my first rig I thought about getting a sound card with some good headphones. So I decided to research about them for a bit, and that has finally lead me here.

I don't think of myself as an audiophile, so I am not willing to spend much more then 100$(+/-25-30) for a sound card, and ditto for headphones.

My main use for the sound card would be for gaming, but I tend to play all sorts of games, RTSs, RPGs, FPSer, new, old, ect... and sometimes I tend to listen to music while playing since some games don't have any background noises. I also tend to listen to music a lot while I surf the web. And if you need to know for some reason, my motherboard on board sound is Realtek ALC 898.

I head a lot about Creative products. How they are great for games, how somehow they lost their touch when Windows Vista came out, how they have bad drivers support, how they support EAX, how most old games support EAX while newer ones don't as much, ect.

So I was wondering if it is worth it for me to get one of the Creative products that was listed or go for one of the Asus products(the DX or ST(x) if I can find it for sale that low.)?

As for headphones, I think I am willing to get the AD700 I just want to know if the bass would be similar or better then any cheap 20$ headphones I have been using? Also, what do people mean by "brighter"?

Or should I try to find the HD555(make by Sennheiser right?)


----------



## Simca

I think the Creative Z card would be great for you at 100. Then you should spend the extra 25 from the card saved on the headphones for 150 on the Ultrasone Pro 550. You'll have bass and gaming and be happy. If you're JUST wanting absolute gaming no bass then the AD700s are very good at that.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Hey Simca. I was planning on getting some Dayton b652's for my brother for $30 on parts express. However the shipping is $15 which puts me over what I am willing to spend for those speakers. So do you know of any similar ones simarly priced, or would there be any better speakers for ~$50 that I would have to spend with shipping.

I could get free shipping if I bought some grado's sr60i's, but I'm not sure if I want to make that commitment yet.


----------



## Biorganic

@ Simca:

A few months ago you suggested that I get some Samson SR850s with the Xonar DG as an entry level audio setup.

Your recommendation was spot-on. I got Superlux HD668Bs instead(basically the same as the samsons) with the DG. I am used to my Klipsch ProAudio 2.1 for listening to bass heavy trance and house. The Klipsch have a pretty decent sub, so I was expecting to be underwhelmed with the bass on the cans. To my surprise the HD668B's sound amazingly clear with ample bass, I notice a depth to the same music that I was unaware of previously. Gaming performance is also excellent.

Fantastic recommendation, Thank you!

+1


----------



## teamrushpntball

So I think my head just exploded after reading that twice and perusing this forum finally. Like think I'm going to cry trying to take in everything I just read.

Fortunately I came here first, I was about to just buy a set of Corsair SP2500 speakers to go with the on-board audio for my Asus Maximus V. Part of the reason I bought that board was for the "allegedly" enhanced sound card equivalent audio. Guess I was a bit off on that.

So couple questions if you don't mind lending your expertise. About 40% of my time I spend browsing OCN listening to music. 30% is spent gaming. The final 30% is watching movies or TV.

I suppose I'm looking to spend under $400 USD all said and done.

I think the sound card I want is an Asus Xonar STX (Preferably refurbished, Amazon Warehouse has one for aroun 150 at the moment)

This should leave me around 250 give or take for speakers.

Should I go with the Corsair SP2500 or different set?

Or just build my own set, which from what I read should include:
Dayton SUB-800 (~$90)
Pioneer SP BS21 (~$65 set)
Dayton DTA-1 (~$40)

-or-
Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Monitor Series Powered Subwoofer (~100)
Polk Audio Monitor 30 AM3025-A 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers (~120 set)
An amp of some sort

Am I missing anything? Should I splurge in one area over the other (IE better speakers at the expense of something else or whatever)?

Greatly appreciate any help


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> So I think my head just exploded after reading that twice and perusing this forum finally. Like think I'm going to cry trying to take in everything I just read.
> Fortunately I came here first, I was about to just buy a set of Corsair SP2500 speakers to go with the on-board audio for my Asus Maximus V. Part of the reason I bought that board was for the "allegedly" enhanced sound card equivalent audio. Guess I was a bit off on that.
> So couple questions if you don't mind lending your expertise. About 40% of my time I spend browsing OCN listening to music. 30% is spent gaming. The final 30% is watching movies or TV.
> I suppose I'm looking to spend under $400 USD all said and done.
> I think the sound card I want is an Asus Xonar STX (Preferably refurbished, Amazon Warehouse has one for aroun 150 at the moment)
> This should leave me around 250 give or take for speakers.
> Should I go with the Corsair SP2500 or different set?
> Or just build my own set, which from what I read should include:
> Dayton SUB-800 (~$90)
> Pioneer SP BS21 (~$65 set)
> Dayton DTA-1 (~$40)
> -or-
> Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Monitor Series Powered Subwoofer (~100)
> Polk Audio Monitor 30 AM3025-A 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers (~120 set)
> An amp of some sort
> Am I missing anything? Should I splurge in one area over the other (IE better speakers at the expense of something else or whatever)?
> Greatly appreciate any help


The psw10 can be had for $80.

The monitor 30's are pretty overpriced at $120.


----------



## teamrushpntball

So assuming I can find the Polk components for lower they are the better route to go than the Dayton or Pioneer equivalents? Also better than theCorsair SP2500 set?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> So assuming I can find the Polk components for lower they are the better route to go than the Dayton or Pioneer equivalents? Also better than theCorsair SP2500 set?


Most any passive speakers will be better than the corsair set. I would think the polk sub would be better, and probably the polk speakers better than the pioneers, but I'm not sure if the polks are the best for the money. The pioneer speakers can be had at newegg right now for $50. The monitor 30's can be had for $85 at the same place, which still might be too much.


----------



## teamrushpntball

And I do need a standalone amp with all of these correct? Any recommendation on what you think I should go with?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Yes you need a standalone amp. I would probably get the Lepia 2020+ or whatever it's called. If you get anything else at least make sure if has bass and treble controls. Balance is important as well if you have them at different distances.


----------



## wompwomp

Is there a sound card where I can have both my headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time and can switch them via software?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Is there a sound card where I can have both my headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time and can switch them via software?


Via software? Never heard of that. But you could always just turn the speakers off.


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Is there a sound card where I can have both my headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time and can switch them via software?


ASUS' sound cards perform in the manner you are looking for. You simply open the control panel and click the output device you wish to use: digital, analog, or headphones. The Recon3D series of sound cards from Creative do this as well. The first generation of Recon3D cards have horrible base audio quality, but the second generation, the SoundBlaster Z series, has the same software interface and much better audio quality.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Is there a sound card where I can have both my headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time and can switch them via software?


My onboard ALC889 does this so I don't see why a decent souncard wouldn't do it too.


----------



## TonyGrunt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Is there a sound card where I can have both my headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time and can switch them via software?


Creative Sound Blaster Z can do it


----------



## diggiddi

Where would the Asus D2X fit in your soundcard hierarchy? i'm thinking of upgrading from my Montego turtle Bay Ddl's and eventually getting a pair of Roccat Kave headphones


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Via software? Never heard of that. But you could always just turn the speakers off.


Lol he means by way of software or using software









via
/ˈvīə/
Preposition
Traveling through (a place) en route to a destination: "they came to Europe via Turkey".
By way of; through: "they can see the artists' works via a camera hookup".
Synonyms
through - by - over - per - across - thru


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *diggiddi*
> 
> Lol he means by way of software or using software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> via
> /ˈvīə/
> Preposition
> Traveling through (a place) en route to a destination: "they came to Europe via Turkey".
> By way of; through: "they can see the artists' works via a camera hookup".
> Synonyms
> through - by - over - per - across - thru


Close enough. But I knew what he meant.


----------



## diggiddi

Ok


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Hey Simca. I was planning on getting some Dayton b652's for my brother for $30 on parts express. However the shipping is $15 which puts me over what I am willing to spend for those speakers. So do you know of any similar ones simarly priced, or would there be any better speakers for ~$50 that I would have to spend with shipping.
> 
> I could get free shipping if I bought some grado's sr60i's, but I'm not sure if I want to make that commitment yet.


Bumpidy.


----------



## zulk

I read how the CALs are lower of sound quality to the samson 850, now I find that hard to believe as I thought the cals sounded amazing to my ear even beside my dt990 and my hd558 ;/.


----------



## element72

I just got the xonar U3. I'm not sure what settings ppl play for the best positional cues. Let me know what to tryout or what's best for you on dolby headphone. I have audio channel set to 8 (recommended by Asus for 3D games), gaming mode set (this enables dolby headphone and DH-2; there is also option DH-1 and DH-3).

Again the settings I'm using are audio channel 8, gaming mode preset, and "headphone" in game. I'm currently playing left 4 dead 2. As of now I'm still liking the CMSS-3D more. I just wish someone would tell me how they set up their sound for dolby headphone.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I'm buying a Creative ZXR sound card as soon as it's available. I game most of the time that I'm on my PC but I also love listening to a variety of music. Should I stick with my JVC RX900's or upgrade to another pair of cans??? I need something that has an amazing sound stage, great mids, highs and cheek rattling bass.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> I'm buying a Creative ZXR sound card as soon as it's available. I game most of the time that I'm on my PC but I also love listening to a variety of music. Should I stick with my JVC RX900's or upgrade to another pair of cans??? I need something that has an amazing sound stage, great mids, highs and cheek rattling bass.


You need a budget too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Hey Simca. I was planning on getting some Dayton b652's for my brother for $30 on parts express. However the shipping is $15 which puts me over what I am willing to spend for those speakers. So do you know of any similar ones simarly priced, or would there be any better speakers for ~$50 that I would have to spend with shipping.
> 
> I could get free shipping if I bought some grado's sr60i's, but I'm not sure if I want to make that commitment yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Bumpidy.
Click to expand...

Do you even have an amp for the B652s?

At 50 shipped look at the Creative Inspire T3130
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Inspire-Multimedia-Speaker-System/dp/B002DWQU48


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You need a budget too.
> Do you even have an amp for the B652s?
> At 50 shipped look at the Creative Inspire T3130
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Inspire-Multimedia-Speaker-System/dp/B002DWQU48


Yes, I have an amp. More of looking for passive speakers.


----------



## teamrushpntball

So Simca care to justify my purchase of my first 2.1 system to me? Picked up a set of Pioneer BS-22 speakers and a Pioneer SW-8MX2 sub for $89.99 each. Seemed to get great reviews on avforums, and were drastically cheaper than Amazon's prices.

Still needing an amp (I think, or use the Sub as the amp?) and a sound card. ~$220 left in my audio budget.

Yes, I do need approval from others, I'm shallow and probably wasn't loved enough as a child.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> I'm buying a Creative ZXR sound card as soon as it's available. I game most of the time that I'm on my PC but I also love listening to a variety of music. Should I stick with my JVC RX900's or upgrade to another pair of cans??? I need something that has an amazing sound stage, great mids, highs and cheek rattling bass.


My budget for headphones is under $400.


----------



## Catinel-Dinca

wow... i just bought a titanium hd like a month ago (was pretty happy about it too, cuz i got it for a good price) but now i just read the first post and im kind of stressed about that warning that its known to "die" after a period... i dont have the time to read all posts but are there really so many of these cards exibiting such simptoms?







should i be worried?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You need a budget too.
> 
> Do you even have an amp for the B652s?
> 
> At 50 shipped look at the Creative Inspire T3130
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8 margin:0px !important;">
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have an amp. More of looking for passive speakers.
Click to expand...

You're really at the bottom of the barrel man. If you can't afford it, save up. Maybe some
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teamrushpntball*
> 
> So Simca care to justify my purchase of my first 2.1 system to me? Picked up a set of Pioneer BS-22 speakers and a Pioneer SW-8MX2 sub for $89.99 each. Seemed to get great reviews on avforums, and were drastically cheaper than Amazon's prices.
> 
> Still needing an amp (I think, or use the Sub as the amp?) and a sound card. ~$220 left in my audio budget.
> 
> Yes, I do need approval from others, I'm shallow and probably wasn't loved enough as a child.


Eh, well, it was an OK purchase. I liked the Pioneer BS-21 because it was cheap. At the price the BS22's sell for there's better to be had. You get them for 90 which wasn't terrible, but 10 bucks more could have gotten you better so.. be happy with what you got now, I guess.

Still not enough info about what music you want with the headphones, if you have an amp. Does the amp have a separate budget or included in 400 etc.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You're really at the bottom of the barrel man. If you can't afford it, save up. Maybe some
> Eh, well, it was an OK purchase. I liked the Pioneer BS-21 because it was cheap. At the price the BS22's sell for there's better to be had. You get them for 90 which wasn't terrible, but 10 bucks more could have gotten you better so.. be happy with what you got now, I guess.
> Still not enough info about what music you want with the headphones, if you have an amp. Does the amp have a separate budget or included in 400 etc.


It's for my bro, not me. Why I don't really want to spend a bunch, especially since he has been on laptop speakers up until now, and anything will sound good.

Guess I will just give him my klh's.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Would I notice a big difference if I go from my current JVC RX900 cans to DT880/HD650/AKG Q701's in gaming? Going to buy a Creative ZXR soon and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading my cans to one of the cans listed above.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> Would I notice a big difference if I go from my current JVC RX900 cans to DT880/HD650/AKG Q701's in gaming? Going to buy a Creative ZXR soon and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading my cans to one of the cans listed above.


Yes because your RX900s were never good for gaming to begin with.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Hi Simca!

I'm in the market for some music headphones (with some bass) that are reasonable and I was actually looking (and I did a listening session using flac files for RnB, Rap, Rock, and Alternative music) at either the ATH-M50, the ATH-PRO500 MK2, or Marshall Major Pitch Black .

Based on my novice ears the M50 sounded darker while the Pro500 had clearer highs (though the M50 had been burned in while the Pro500 wasn't yet) obviously these cans don't have the wide sound stage that my HD 518 have (a pretty decent gaming head phone if I do say so myself). The Marshall sounded like everything was up front with really no sound stage and the bass wasn't as nice as the AT's; it still sounded nice since it was easily the cheapest of the 3. I also tried listening to some HD 598 and I have to say as much as I love my Senns I do like the sound signature of the AT with its bass.

All in all I'm pretty confused with what to get with the selection of headphones our seller over here has (best part is he makes you listen to any can he has on stock before buying) and yes, I know this is a good problem to have but now I know I'll be throwing money again.









So finally, on to my question, are there any other headphones I should include and give a listen to considering the types of music I like:

1. Snoop Dog, Dr. Dre, etc.
2. Mary J. Blige,
3. Pearl jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, A Perfect Circle etc.
4. Adele
5. The Cure, The Police, U2
6. Metallica, Danzig, GnR, etc.
7. Linkin Park, NIN, Tool, etc.
8. Rolling Stones, Allman Brothers, Bob Marley

Yes, I know, I know I have an eclectic choice in music but I was hoping to find an all rounder that would suit my needs currently. My HD518 does an admirable job specially when I pair it with my z02 / e11 to listen to some music that needs a quicker bass response, but I still feel like it's a little lacking and I just wish to buy another headphone to supplement it.









Budget would be around $300 USD, thanks for any input!


----------



## adridu59

Some say that M50's are overrated.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Yes because your RX900s were never good for gaming to begin with.


I think they're ok for gaming. I'm sure they're not the best but I wouldn't say that they're not good for gaming. Which headphones would you consider the BEST for gaming as well as great for music. I love bass, clean mids and highs. My budget is under $400.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> Would I notice a big difference if I go from my current JVC RX900 cans to DT880/HD650/AKG Q701's in gaming? Going to buy a Creative ZXR soon and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading my cans to one of the cans listed above.


Well I should hope that you don't plan on using $30 headphones on a $250 sound card.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Some say that M50's are overrated.


Compared to which headphones at the same price point?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Well I should hope that you don't plan on using $30 headphones on a $250 sound card.


they cost almost $60!!!


----------



## Simca

Consider Denon D2000s with an amp if they still sell them in store. They were discontinued, but some places still have them. Doubt you can find the new D400s for under 300.

HIFIMAN HE-300s are $250.00 A headphone to consider, but no store really has them short of online.

If you have no desire to game, the Grado SR325i/225i or Allesandro MS2i are a good choice to listen to. Allesandro's only sell from website though.

Those would be other choices I'd go for. You could consider Ultrasone Pro 900s but I don't favor them too heavily.

Give the Grados a listen to.

The HE-400s would be the best upgrade at $400 dollars for you, but they would really really like an amp. Buy used on Headfi for ~365. Save up more for amp or use receiver as amp if you have one.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Consider Denon D2000s with an amp if they still sell them in store. They were discontinued, but some places still have them. Doubt you can find the new D400s for under 300.
> HIFIMAN HE-300s are $250.00 A headphone to consider, but no store really has them short of online.
> If you have no desire to game, the Grado SR325i/225i or Allesandro MS2i are a good choice to listen to. Allesandro's only sell from website though.
> Those would be other choices I'd go for. You could consider Ultrasone Pro 900s but I don't favor them too heavily.
> Give the Grados a listen to.
> The HE-400s would be the best upgrade at $400 dollars for you, but they would really really like an amp. Buy used on Headfi for ~365. Save up more for amp or use receiver as amp if you have one.


What do you think about a combo of the HE-400s and the CEntrance DACport insead of the Creative ZXR?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Consider Denon D2000s with an amp if they still sell them in store. They were discontinued, but some places still have them. Doubt you can find the new D400s for under 300.
> HIFIMAN HE-300s are $250.00 A headphone to consider, but no store really has them short of online.
> If you have no desire to game, the Grado SR325i/225i or Allesandro MS2i are a good choice to listen to. Allesandro's only sell from website though.
> Those would be other choices I'd go for. You could consider Ultrasone Pro 900s but I don't favor them too heavily.
> Give the Grados a listen to.
> The HE-400s would be the best upgrade at $400 dollars for you, but they would really really like an amp. Buy used on Headfi for ~365. Save up more for amp or use receiver as amp if you have one.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think about a combo of the HE-400s and the CEntrance DACport insead of the Creative ZXR?
Click to expand...

You'll have to ask Chinesekiwi, he added that to the list. I've never heard it. I wouldn't expect it to be greeat with gaming, but who knows. Probably a better buy than the ZxR at 250 anyway.

Actually, the ZxR has a headphone amp that should drive the HE-400s fine. I'd just get HE-400s.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You'll have to ask Chinesekiwi, he added that to the list. I've never heard it. I wouldn't expect it to be greeat with gaming, but who knows. Probably a better buy than the ZxR at 250 anyway.
> Actually, the ZxR has a headphone amp that should drive the HE-400s fine. I'd just get HE-400s.


Sounds like a great plan! Question, regarding sound stage and imaging only, how much better is the HE-400 compared to the PC 360 while gaming?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> What do you think about a combo of the HE-400s and the CEntrance DACport insead of the Creative ZXR?


depends on what you are doing.


----------



## jellybeans69

Funny enough, just checked Denon D2000's are available here , for about 522$

Edit: Any thoughts on Beyerdynamic MMX 101/nnheiser CX 880 or similar inears in price range for listening music on my phone?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellybeans69*
> 
> Funny enough, just checked Denon D2000's are available here , for about 522$
> Edit: Any thoughts on Beyerdynamic MMX 101/nnheiser CX 880 or similar inears in price range for listening music on my phone?


That's 250 more than it should be


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Simca, how would these compare to the b652's for the price? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290039&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL010413&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL010413-_-EMC-010413-Index-_-HomeAudioSpeakers-_-82290039-L08B


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Simca, how would these compare to the b652's for the price? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290039&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL010413&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL010413-_-EMC-010413-Index-_-HomeAudioSpeakers-_-82290039-L08B


They are comparatively similar. Even though the R150 has a bit smaller woofer it does slightly better in the low end response. I tried them out for a while.

Honestly, spend the extra $10 when the Pioneer BS21s are on sale for $50. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Simca

The D2000s at 522 is from a single seller looking to hit up some silly kid enchanted with finding a D2k. That's by no means actual market value.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> They are comparatively similar. Even though the R150 has a bit smaller woofer it does slightly better in the low end response. I tried them out for a while.
> Honestly, spend the extra $10 when the Pioneer BS21s are on sale for $50. You won't be disappointed.


Too late, OOS, and I gave my bro some different speakers


----------



## freitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The D2000s at 522 is from a single seller looking to hit up some silly kid enchanted with finding a D2k. That's by no means actual market value.


I would think you would be able to find some from private sellers for under 300$ used


----------



## jellybeans69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The D2000s at 522 is from a single seller looking to hit up some silly kid enchanted with finding a D2k. That's by no means actual market value.


Actually is only one shop selling them here, kind of bad with choice of headphones here in genral. Tbh any comments on those IEM's i mentioned in last page for listening music from phone?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Try head fi for a d2k or d5k even


----------



## freitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Try head fi for a d2k or d5k even


Head-fi doesn't have any D2000 on there. Ebay has some, I was looking at them a while for myself as well. I think Head-fi has some info on where to buy them JB website or something.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I was also referring to putting a would like to buy thread


----------



## toyz72

i was kinda curious why corsair sp2500's dont make the list under computer speakers?


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> i was kinda curious why corsair sp2500's dont make the list under computer speakers?


Because more than 3 people like them, and that makes them too mainstream.


----------



## toyz72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> Because more than 3 people like them, and that makes them too mainstream.


i was hoping to get a little better of a response. looking at whats recommended ,theses should be on there. i know there not in the same price group as the pro media's, but i think i would want to be recommended theses over them if i had the extra money.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freitz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Try head fi for a d2k or d5k even
> 
> 
> 
> Head-fi doesn't have any D2000 on there. Ebay has some, I was looking at them a while for myself as well. I think Head-fi has some info on where to buy them JB website or something.
Click to expand...

D2ks are always in the for sale section. Look harder.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> i was kinda curious why corsair sp2500's dont make the list under computer speakers?


Because they're typically pretty expensive for what you're getting. The Klipsch are 99 dollar 2.1's The SP2500s are 180..and at best 160....and they normally go for 250? Yeah, typically not worth the purchase.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *toyz72*
> 
> i was kinda curious why corsair sp2500's dont make the list under computer speakers?
> 
> 
> 
> Because more than 3 people like them, and that makes them too mainstream.
Click to expand...

And you comment on the answers I give occasionally.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> D2ks are always in the for sale section. Look harder.
> Because they're typically pretty expensive for what you're getting. The Klipsch are 99 dollar 2.1's The SP2500s are 180..and at best 160....and they normally go for 250? Yeah, typically not worth the purchase.
> And you comment on the answers I give occasionally.


Actually Simca, ever since Denon announced the end of line of the D2/5/7ks - A HUGE drop in the amount of those on sale went. I guess people are valuing them a lot more now, as they are discontinued, yet still kick some serious audio-ass


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> D2ks are always in the for sale section. Look harder.
> Because they're typically pretty expensive for what you're getting. The Klipsch are 99 dollar 2.1's The SP2500s are 180..and at best 160....and they normally go for 250? Yeah, typically not worth the purchase.
> And you comment on the answers I give occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Simca, ever since Denon announced the end of line of the D2/5/7ks - A HUGE drop in the amount of those on sale went. I guess people are valuing them a lot more now, as they are discontinued, yet still kick some serious audio-ass
Click to expand...

But they're still very much on sale in the for sale section.


----------



## Simca

Added the Schiit Magni and Modi DAC and Amp to the list. Removed the Fiio E9. Removed all mention of the portable Amp section.

Removed a few comments I didn't agree with.


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Schiit Magni and Modi DAC and Amp to the list. Removed the Fiio E9. Removed all mention of the portable Amp section.
> 
> Removed a few comments I didn't agree with.


All Praise the Magic Simca :3


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Schiit Magni and Modi DAC and Amp to the list. Removed the Fiio E9. Removed all mention of the portable Amp section.
> 
> Removed a few comments I didn't agree with.


The part about the JDSLabs O2 has some broken script.


----------



## Bloitz

@ Simca and others:
I have been doing a lot of reading and searching lately about DACs and amps and have gotten increasingly confused.
I'm looking for something that will properly support my Sennheiser HD598.

Currently I'm doubting between an Asus Xonar STX and ODAC / O2 amp combo (seperate cases though). The STX for the ease of the all in one package, the ODAC/O2 combo for the quality and value/performance (and the fact I could use the ODAC with my laptop and plug it into a receiver).

I know these are probably too high-end for the HD598 but I can't seem to find anything in the lower price brackets that convinces me (little to no coloration / distortion). I know the HD 598 doesn't really need an amp but the ODAC only has a line-out with high impedance and I've read I would be significantly gimping my sound quality if I plug them in there. So I'm kind of forced to buy the O2 as well (even though I don't like the layout). If there would be a good übercheap amp out there since I don't really need the amping of the O2 then I'd love to know as well.

I know there's room for improvement with the HD 598 because I plugged them into my father's receiver and my brother's DG and I could definitely hear differences (I know about expectation bias and it wasn't an A/B comparison but the difference was pretty obvious compared to my onboard sound)
I'd love to hear your (and others too of course) thoughts on this and/or perhaps other suggestions (do keep in mind I'm from Belgium so availability is a huge issue (as well as importing, 21% VAT + customs + 21% VAT on the customs)).

PS:
Essence STX would run me about +/-€165 ( $ 213.68 ) excl. shipping
ODAC/ O2 would be € 186 (incl. shipping) ($ 248.12) if I put the O2 together myself (otherwise it's too expensive)


----------



## mikeaj

Unless you're thinking to the future with other headphones, I would say just a Xonar DG / DGX, as appropriate and to save money.

If it's not a newer receiver, maybe it just has the headphone output tapped through the speaker amp with a resistor in-between (read: very high output impedance). i.e. very significantly colored sound for those headphones because of the impedance interaction with the ~100 Hz or wherever it is resonant bass / impedance hump

Even if most sources have small issues here and there, they're usually not that significant compared to whatever issues the mechanical / acoustic parts of the system have. Just my opinion, but I'd usually shoot under for the electronics, realistically. (except for headphones that need something in particular)


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Schiit Magni and Modi DAC and Amp to the list. Removed the Fiio E9. Removed all mention of the portable Amp section.
> 
> Removed a few comments I didn't agree with.


Simca :3 Oh Wise one !

Beyer Dynamic DT 990 I have a chance to pick up a pair of these for 120 total , theyre used and in good condition , should i go for it :3 ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Added the Schiit Magni and Modi DAC and Amp to the list. Removed the Fiio E9. Removed all mention of the portable Amp section.
> 
> Removed a few comments I didn't agree with.


any reasons for this? The Fiio E9 (now E9K) is measured perfectly well and combine it with the fact I don't trust Schiit at all after that incident with their Asgard amps.
For sources, you really can't judge them subjectively as they are not supposed to have any 'sound signature'.

Personally, no measurements nor strong trusted opinions from objective-minded sources = no add to the list.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> Simca :3 Oh Wise one !
> 
> Beyer Dynamic DT 990 I have a chance to pick up a pair of these for 120 total , theyre used and in good condition , should i go for it :3 ?


If its in good condition, yes, go for it!

If the earpads look a bit worn, do replace them (with the default ones). Earpads do affect the sound greatly with headphones.


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> If its in good condition, yes, go for it!
> 
> If the earpads look a bit worn, do replace them (with the default ones). Earpads do affect the sound greatly with headphones.


All Praise the Magic Kiwi ~(^3^)~ magickiwi.jpg


----------



## chinesekiwi

Added the Audioquest Dragonfly in the DAC section as it's really good as a small portable USB DAC + headphone amp. Eliminated the DACPorts, despite the pricedrops, based on the the fact of the 10 ohm output impedance for the headphone amp, which would negatively affect a lot of in-ears and portable headphones with low ohm ratings. the DACports arguably have better preforming DACs but the worse headphone amp negates any benefit of that + the Dragonfly is cheaper. The Audioquest Dragonfly has a very good 0.55 ohm output impedance. Add a caveat also regarding Audioquest audio cables!

Audioquest Dragonfly = good!
Audioquest cables = overpriced bad!

Simca, we need to talk about the Schiit inclusions as I am strongly against them.


----------



## dioxholster

Im gonna upgrade, I actually like my logitech so hope whatever i get is a step up somehow. which is better Swan M10 or microlab 6c or 7c? Thats my budget, but i could increase just a little if i think something is really worth it. At the end of the day though im just gonna use it for gaming mostly at low volume.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Added the Audioquest Dragonfly in the DAC section as it's really good as a small portable USB DAC + headphone amp. Eliminated the DACPorts, despite the pricedrops, based on the the fact of the 10 ohm output impedance for the headphone amp, which would negatively affect a lot of in-ears and portable headphones with low ohm ratings. the DACports arguably have better preforming DACs but the worse headphone amp negates any benefit of that + the Dragonfly is cheaper. The Audioquest Dragonfly has a very good 0.55 ohm output impedance. Add a caveat also regarding Audioquest audio cables!
> 
> Audioquest Dragonfly = good!
> Audioquest cables = overpriced bad!
> 
> Simca, we need to talk about the Schiit inclusions as I am strongly against them.


I have a problem recommending products I haven't used... the Schiit Magni does measure well for the price.

http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=734.0


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have a problem recommending products I haven't used... the Schiit Magni does measure well for the price.
> 
> http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=734.0


Those are all acoustic measurements, limited by the headphone and microphone, setup. An amp could be relatively poor compared to other amps (though not if very high distortion) and not show anything significant in those tests. At the lower SPL out, a Sansa Clip could produce the same results. On the other hand, this is a reminder that you don't need some über-spec amp with 0.0000001% THD because your headphones are way more of a limiting factor anyway.

Any complaints about the Magni seem to revolve around the fixed 5x gain (14 dB) and thus a limited range and channel imbalance on the bottom of the analog volume pot for more-sensitive and lower-impedance headphones..

As much as I don't think much of Schiit's we-don't-like-op-amps and we-don't-like-(global)-feedback philosophies, it's not like it necessarily really matters all that much in the end.

This is just what I think, but I'd say that people worry too much about the electronics these days. Unless you're looking for an intentionally-bad amp or DAC, just make sure the thing (1) has the correct inputs and outputs, (2) looks and feels nice enough for whatever plugging in/out or adjustments like volume you need to make, or time to warm up if that would annoy you, (3) has any kind of software or hardware auxiliary features like EQ / crossfeed / Dolby Headphone / whatever you want, (4) doesn't have too much gain or too little gain for the headphones and listening level you use, (5) doesn't have too much noise if you use sensitive IEMs, (6) doesn't have too high output impedance if you use certain IEMs or certain dynamic headphones like HD 5xx series, and (7) won't blow up your headphones.

For the record, (7) doesn't really seem to be a concern in this case.


----------



## Alienware69

For people who said Beats are crap, check this review out

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/12/22/five-headphones-that-bring-video-game-sound-alive/

This should shut some of the elitists up around here


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> For people who said Beats are crap, check this review out
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/12/22/five-headphones-that-bring-video-game-sound-alive/
> 
> This should shut some of the elitists up around here


lolwut not


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> For people who said Beats are crap, check this review out
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/12/22/five-headphones-that-bring-video-game-sound-alive/
> 
> This should shut some of the elitists up around here


Lmao. Yes because a forbes article says something we all believe it.

Funnier than the article itself.


----------



## mikeaj

Heh, I thought that was meant sarcastically.

Regardless: Poe's Law.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Heh, I thought that was meant sarcastically.
> 
> Regardless: Poe's Law.


You have to wonder, but I think it was sincere.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

How much were they paid?


----------



## Simca

~Slaps Kiwi~ Yeah, i did it.

Alienware69, hmm, wonder if I can trust.









You're biased against Schiit. Your opinion is no longer valid. Therefore, it shall remain.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have a problem recommending products I haven't used... the Schiit Magni does measure well for the price.
> 
> http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=734.0


It's easy when you can judge objectively via the measurements. Proper ones using multi-thousand dollar measuring equipment like Stereophile's John Atkinson uses.

Also Simca, there's a more than legit reason why I'm against them because of that PR disaster. I'm not supporting companies that are either very negligent, or more likely, downright deceiving people by casting a blind eye to their massively defective product (at the time). If they conducted themselves properly and did a product recall, there would be no problems by me as that does sometimes happen but to flatly deny there was a problem...yeah nah.

It was like a company making defective power supplies and people's computer's blowing up and denying there was a problem.

Why is my opinion' no longer valid'?

I base my opinions on sources on hard measurements as that the ONLY way to OBJECTIVELY judge sources because as stated sources are NEVER meant to have any sort of 'sound signature' and I know full well about the 'Head-fi kool aid' and the dark side of Head-fi as I've seen and experienced the commericalisation of Head-fi.

As the Audio Editor, I have the responsibility to ensure I only recommending products that are legitimately good, regardless of hype.


----------



## Simca

So then show us the comparisons. The charts. The objective proof that schiit is..that.


----------



## mikeaj

Spoiler: edit: background info



For those not previously aware, Schiit tends to talk about how they like avoiding op amps and also feedback (well, global feedback). They also like to talk about manly (overkill) output power levels, more or less, except that they of course have a more positive spin there. i.e. power levels most sane people never actually use unless they own one of a few very insensitive headphones. I guess being able to deliver more power is good for marketing, even if many people may be using 0.0001 - 0.1 W on an amp capable of over 1 W. Well, at least extra power isn't a bad thing, and they're by no means the only ones with positions and marketing like the above.



You know, by handicapping themselves based on philosophical concerns and preferences for the kinds of circuits they want to design, they may be leaving price/performance on the table. Some of the arguments aren't worth rehashing, but I would suggest some readings:
http://www.linearaudio.nl/Documents/Volume_1_BP.pdf
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/distortion+fb.htm

Like I said, I'm not the biggest fan of such methods (edit: meaning, deciding to avoid X or Y for whatever reason, when X and Y are proven tools that are available. I'm not advocating that everybody takes the same approach, but to me the stance seems a bit dogmatic or maybe just a clever marketing ploy). But in terms of actual products that exist, that's not really that relevant. We just evaluate based on the product and its price. The methods to get there are not of concern to a user. As for the relevance of high-end specs for audio electronics, that's in serious question anyway, when you look at the so-called objective evidence, previous research on psychoacoustics.

I would be somewhat cautious of new products from a company that previously didn't seem all that concerned about releasing products in the wild that do whole numbers of volts into headphones on power on, denied some things, etc. But it doesn't really relate to the Magni / Modi. Reputation is overrated; just look at what's there. As I said before, fixed 5x gain is a bigger deal than everything else. It's good for some things, not necessarily for everybody.

Wonder what the kiwi has to say.


----------



## chinesekiwi

with that first link:
Quote:


> Hi-fi review is a complete shambles.
> The few magazines that do measure are capable of reprinting the most frightening distortion spectra from amplifiers and actually call them good. "Objectivity" got downgraded from "independent of who's doing the observing" to "not favouring particular brands".
> For me personally the affair hit rock bottom when in 2009 two reviewers, one Dutch, one British, independently remarked of the same amplifier (a reasonably priced product with exemplary performance) that it sounded surprisingly musical for an amp with such low distortion.
> In the 21st century audio engineers build equipment while actively avoiding two of the most powerful tools available to the whole of science and engineering: measurement and error control. The damage to the audio industry and its reputation in the wider engineering world will remain immeasurable until we decide to take control.


So 110% true. Even Stereophile is guilty of this. The commericalisation of Hi-fi reviews. No praise, no advertising money or free test samples for you.

That's why I skip to the measurements by John Atkinson, which with some reviews, contradict the written review.

Simca, you and I know about that PR disaster thread that has now, due to the commericalsation, been edited.
Let's not forget the censorship of Nwavguy and the intital censorship of the ODAC / O2 amp on Head-fi.
Let's not forget the HORRIBLE measurements of the Hifiman HM-801 (and that's not even mentioning the joke of an user interface).
Interestingly enough, Hifiman's earphones and headphones measure very well.

Mike's last paragraph sums up my views on Schiit. When you see the measurements of 'Head-fi' favourites such as the Thunderpants (badly modded Fostex T50RP) and Audio-GD's products and how they measure HORRIBLY, you tend to view Head-fi MOTM's with massive caution, particularly if they are a small time outfit and advertise on Head-fi.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

^This

I used to pay attention to Head-Fi and the 'other' Audio Sites(or so they call themselves) but after the whole NwAvGuy issue and the Schiit debacle (and finding out the other sites just was giving positive reviews because they were sponsored by the product they're reviewing) I stopped listening to Jude and the rest.

The question is, aside from OCN are there other places you guys can recommend that actually still test without bias that we can go to?

~A budding audiophile


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Anything But iPod is a good place I find.

DFTK is a great reviewer, and honest


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> ^This
> 
> I used to pay attention to Head-Fi and the 'other' Audio Sites(or so they call themselves) but after the whole NwAvGuy issue and the Schiit debacle (and finding out the other sites just was giving positive reviews because they were sponsored by the product they're reviewing) I stopped listening to Jude and the rest.
> 
> The question is, aside from OCN are there other places you guys can recommend that actually still test without bias that we can go to?
> 
> ~A budding audiophile


You mean measurements wise or reviews?
For reviews, |joker| and 'Clieos' are still good. The headphones and earphone subforum haven't seen polluted as much as the source subforum.
Frederik S on Techpowerup is good as well.


----------



## mikeaj

About the HM-801, it's not like -1 dB at 10 kHz and -4 dB at 20 kHz from whatever kind of DAC filter they're using for whatever reason, is actually that easy to detect in practice. Poor crosstalk compared to other devices is still generally better than necessary for most music listening. I think some players' higher noise floors and possibly higher distortion with low-impedance sets could be more objectionable. That said, the cost, especially compared to alternatives... not sure what's the value added here.

I don't think that most all reviewers really intend to promote sponsors and so on (I mean the cynical, deliberate intent some assume, buying into all the conspiracy theories), but it's just kind of inevitable when money is involved and often when the reviewers know the designers personally or need to ensure that future review samples come their way. Also inevitable when people avoid blind testing, most don't even level-match for comparisons, and so on. Some reviews do make you wonder, though:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-specifications

What's the effect of seeing things and preconception on audio impressions? Here's a start:
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

The thing with headphones / IEMs reviews is that there are so many facets other than just the sound quality that are of interest, and differences are relatively large. There's no avoiding bias, but it's not going to ruin all the results. Try to average it out by reading multiple reviews-however, some elements may not fall out over averaging (see above). For the electronics reviews, differences often fall far below the level of influencing factors other than the sound itself, so you could say that the reviews have a lower "SNR". That's not to say they're useless, but be careful.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I have to say I wasn't convinced about the Skullcandy hype on head-fi -just went into HMV (so sad it is closing) and I actually was surprisingly happy with the sound that the Aviators were producing (plugged into my own source)

I was also completely surprised of the small size factor of the TDK 2 speaker boombox, it is MINUTE versus my 3 Speaker Boombox!
So light and portable - two thumbs up form me there, and the sound quality was very pleasant (bass was a bit off, but that's because some idiots had pressed in the cones of every speaker there)


----------



## eNemy-

Is the OP up-to-date?
I am looking for a headset for Gaming and Music. And my budget is about 80 bucks.
Should I just go with AKG GHS 1? Or do you recommend a headphone + a mic?
BTW I don't have any sound card. So I was thinking about Creative Sound Blaster Tactic 3d Sigma (which I believe has sound card)
But then the OP says Creative is most likely trash... So I don't know what should I buy...
And just FYI I will buy it in Germany or Poland.


----------



## Schiit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Also Simca, there's a more than legit reason why I'm against them because of that PR disaster. I'm not supporting companies that are either very negligent, or more likely, downright deceiving people by casting a blind eye to their massively defective product (at the time). If they conducted themselves properly and did a product recall, there would be no problems by me as that does sometimes happen but to flatly deny there was a problem...yeah nah.


Hey all,

Just to clear some things up:

1. There was indeed a product recall-all early Asgard and Lyr owners that were affected have been notified, and everyone has been offered a relay retrofit for free. Furthermore, the offer to retrofit any Asgards or Lyrs on their second, third, fourth, or later owners for free is ongoing, to catch any that went to new owners who were not notified.

2. We have stated our reasons for not including a relay mute at the beginning--that is, we believed we were creating no-compromise products that required some care with their use, typical of many uber-high-end-gear that needs a "turn on sequence" to avoid blowing up speakers. But the fact is, we made a mistake. Now, all of our products include protection (including Magni's relay mute.)

3. Our design philosophy (using both instrumentation and listening) may not be congruent with everyone's beliefs, and if that's the case, that's cool--there are plenty of other great manufacturers out there.

4. That said, we do use extensive instrumented testing in development of our products--we own two Stanford Research SR-1 audio analyzers, and have used Stanford gear since the Theta Digital days. We have one kitted out for analog testing, and one with the ultra-low-jitter analysis option for digital testing.

5. Although Schiit is a new venture for us, at much lower price points than our previous companies (I was the Vice-President of Engineering at Sumo, Mike Moffat was one of the founders of Theta Digital), we're really set on delivering great products. If you take a look at the interest in, reliability of, and resale for, some of the 20-year-old Sumo and Theta products we designed, you'll see that our stuff is built for value over the long haul.

All the best,

Jason Stoddard
Co-Founder
Schiit Audio


----------



## bumblebee1980

thanks for the response.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> According to the Simca, the Infinity Primus P153's are what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually really like the look of those without the cover, and about the right size for travelling as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get used to them with the covers on because you won't be playing them with them off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you want dust on your drivers which is bad, you'll keep the cover on.
Click to expand...

Good call, but I just love the look of the drivers and tend to keep them clean. Even my car's speakers get a monthly wipe down.

On a side note, my Lepai 2020 should be in my hands soon, and for now, I have two choices for speakers, some old Yorx S-18A's or some JVC PC-B55K's from an old JVD PC-R55W stereo.

*Yorx S-18A's*





*JVC PC-B55K*


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schiit*
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Jason Stoddard
> Co-Founder
> Schiit Audio


Cheers for the response.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Schiit*
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Jason Stoddard
> Co-Founder
> Schiit Audio
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers for the response.
Click to expand...

~James thumb in your side~


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Good call, but I just love the look of the drivers and tend to keep them clean. Even my car's speakers get a monthly wipe down.
> 
> On a side note, my Lepai 2020 should be in my hands soon, and for now, I have two choices for speakers, some old Yorx S-18A's or some JVC PC-B55K's from an old JVD PC-R55W stereo.
> 
> *Yorx S-18A's*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JVC PC-B55K*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I haven't laid my eyes on one of these boom boxes in over 20+ years, this was the IPod of the 70's and 80's!


----------



## lb_felipe

Does Magni's box include a USB cable?

Does Shiit ship it to Brazil?

Does it match well with AKG Q 701?

USB cable THAT WORKS is always the same. They always allow 100% of data in flow without jitter (like HDMI, S/PDIF, TOSLink, etc.). Does anyone disagree with this statement?


----------



## mikeaj

Magni is the amp. Modi is the DAC. Do you have something backwards?

AFAIK Magni only officially ships in US because all they have are 16VAC wallwarts for ~115V power areas and so on. You can get it through resellers though, maybe with a different transformer or something to step down ~230V to ~115V. Don't see why it would ship with a USB cable because of course it doesn't use USB.

Not sure about Modi; check on that.

For Q701, depends which you mean above. Magni gain and noise floor should be okay for most people with Q701, and it certainly has way more power than you need there. If you mean the DAC, I don't really think so much about DAC / headphone interactions because they don't really exist unless maybe you're looking at intentionally "flavored" DACs to do some kind of hardware tone control for the system. DAC is buffered by the headphone amp.

Depends what you mean by "USB cable" and what kind of trickery you're allowing there. Theoretically, if the DAC is powered by the USB bus, filtering the USB power through say a ferrite bead could slightly help the power supply, which could slightly help performance, mainly noise levels I guess. Probably not in any appreciable way. But really, any decent USB DAC should have plenty of filtering on board, regardless of the source of power. I wouldn't say "always the same" from a theoretical fringe-case standpoint, but it's difficult for a reasonable (cheap or not, non-defective) interconnecting wire to make any kind of appreciable difference on the performance of the analog side of the DAC, which is all that matters so long as all the bits get there. In all but the lowest-end USB DACs, the USB receiver chip is separate from the DAC chip, and the board should have separate digital and analog power sections.

For S/PDIF, in some implementations the digital transmission itself is used to clock the D/A so in some extreme situations the cable could have some effect on the operation of the electronics in such a way that there is a measurable (audible? probably not) difference in jitter. But it's really up to the electronics (connecting wires not even being any active part of that), and many S/PDIF DACs handle the inputs in ways that completely circumvent or mitigate this issue. HDMI and USB transmission should be more or less independent of the D/A process and thus not affect that.


----------



## lb_felipe

I'm sorry for my mistakes!

What I meant are:

Does *Modi* include a USB cable?

Does *Magni* match well with AKG Q 701?

Well, everything already was answered.

I thank you and thank for teachings.


----------



## lb_felipe

Mike, I have a more question:

May a BD player give more audio quality when the external pro-pre is used compared another one?

That's, may a more expensive player allow more audio quality since there are no read errors and no processing is made by it (using receiver or prepro in bit straming audio from player)?


----------



## snoball

This is somewhat of an odd question. So my JVC cans bit the dust, cat nom'd the cord through while I was in class. I only have a pair of Sony DR-ZX701s now. Here is the catch, the cord is WAY to short to reach the rear of my PC. I do currently own an optical cable and a FiiO D3. This would enable me to use the Sonys via the converter. Right now I have speakers connected only for temporary.

Is it worth buying a extension for the headphones so they reach my PC or should I continue using the FiiO solution? Basically which will yield the best sound. I MUCH prefer headphones over speakers.


----------



## TriviumKM

Forgive me if the question has been asked already:

I recently purchased a pair of Beyer 990 Pro's (250 ohm model) and i'm a bit confused as to what to pair it with. I purchased the Fiio e10 along with them, but i also wanted to have 3d sound for gaming and didn't realize i couldn't do that with this setup (didn't research enough, was basically an impulse buy).

Music and gaming use would be about 50/50, so my question regards what equipment to buy in order to get 5.1 sound through headphones for gaming, but also have fairly decent sound for music as well. Budget would be ~ $3-400.

Would buying a card like the creative z, and then pairing it with an external amp be enough? or would i be better off just getting a lower end card along the lines of an asus d1 or something for just the gaming sound and buying a decent external dac /amp combo for the beyers and daisy chain them? If so, anyone have a suggestion for a good amp or amp/dac to pair with the Beyer's? Thanks.


----------



## jellybeans69

Sennheiser CX 880 vs Beyerdynamic MMX 101 vs Sony XBA-2 , thoughts , comments on which one to choose musix from phone (samsung ace)?


----------



## dioxholster

Creative Z or Xonar DX?? For games and movies, mainly games...

also did anyone try aktimate micro? its got good reviews.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Forgive me if the question has been asked already:
> 
> I recently purchased a pair of Beyer 990 Pro's (250 ohm model) and i'm a bit confused as to what to pair it with. I purchased the Fiio e10 along with them, but i also wanted to have 3d sound for gaming and didn't realize i couldn't do that with this setup (didn't research enough, was basically an impulse buy).
> 
> Music and gaming use would be about 50/50, so my question regards what equipment to buy in order to get 5.1 sound through headphones for gaming, but also have fairly decent sound for music as well. Budget would be ~ $3-400.
> 
> Would buying a card like the creative z, and then pairing it with an external amp be enough? or would i be better off just getting a lower end card along the lines of an asus d1 or something for just the gaming sound and buying a decent external dac /amp combo for the beyers and daisy chain them? If so, anyone have a suggestion for a good amp or amp/dac to pair with the Beyer's? Thanks.


My STX seems to do a great job with my pair. I think that it would be hard to beat the STX for the price.


----------



## LessThanImpress

*Monoprice 8323 vs JVC RX700 vs Panasonic HTF600*

I am looking to buy new headphones. I want to know which one of these headphones are better overall. I am interested in the 8323 because of the low price. I am trying not to spend any more than $30. I like bass and will be mainly be using these headphones to listen to Rap, Dubstep etc. I particularly like closed headphones because of the increase in bass. If you have any other suggestions for headphones under $30 please tell me.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Simca

Hmm, I'd probably choose the 8323.

but if you want bass the RX700s.


----------



## NeonFlak

With the CAL's on sale for $60, would they be the goto in the less then $100 field? As a headphone used primarily for gaming and occasionally for music/movies? They would be paired with a xi-fi titanium.


----------



## Simca

Sounds like a good choice to me.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Good call, but I just love the look of the drivers and tend to keep them clean. Even my car's speakers get a monthly wipe down.
> 
> On a side note, my Lepai 2020 should be in my hands soon, and for now, I have two choices for speakers, some old Yorx S-18A's or some JVC PC-B55K's from an old JVD PC-R55W stereo.
> 
> *Yorx S-18A's*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JVC PC-B55K*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't laid my eyes on one of these boom boxes in over 20+ years, this was the IPod of the 70's and 80's!
Click to expand...

Yeah, she's an old beast, but still pounds perfectly fine. The AUX RCA In on the back is broken though and I don;t want to open this thing up and risk it falling apart...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Yesterday I finished my review of the EHP-O2D - first item I couldn't really find a flaw about, especially at its price and purpose.
Full 10/10 in every category.


----------



## Miskatonic

An underrated gem worth checking out for rock/metal listeners is the Beyerdynamic DT 150 - enthralling midrange. You'll need to amp them though, 250 ohms, made me forget about my Grado RS1. They're around $270ish online.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Yesterday I finished my review of the EHP-O2D - first item I couldn't really find a flaw about, especially at its price and purpose.
> Full 10/10 in every category.


How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?


So how can it be 'bright' when the frequency response line is flatline?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> So how can it be 'bright' when the frequency response line is flatline?


I don't quite understand your point Simca.

In my opinion, the EHP is quite flat sounding - and in fact has a little bit of a dip in the mids, and thus isn't 100% transparent when it comes to reproducing your music.
However, at the price point of £100 for the non-dac version, and £190 for the dac version, I don't see any amp coming remotely close to what this can do.

When I also give ratings I take price into consideration. Most reviewers ignore price. Actually a lot of them do, and I know VERY few reviewers that actually give ratings based on price.

Reason I give ratings based on price as well as performance is simple:
If I want to buy it - and funnily enough with the EHP I did buy it (although that was with a reviewers discount) - how would I rate it at THAT price.
If the EHP was say...£800 would people still buy it? Would people still be raving about it? Would people still give it high ratings? No to all those questions.

So, of course the EHP isn't the perfect amp - as I've heard some ridiculously lovely amps, especially tube ones. But they cost upwards of £500 - and more so, they don't even have the DAC functionalities.
Thus, 10/10 for the EHP for not only providing users a all-round great amp, but also for being affordable and completely out-stripping the competition within its price bracket.

ie. E11 = £55
EHP = £100

E11 wasn't anything special at all.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> My STX seems to do a great job with my pair. I think that it would be hard to beat the STX for the price.


I'll check the STX out then for my 990's; appreciate the help, thanks.


----------



## g.androider

Hi,

Sorry to ask. This is about to be my first headphone because I'm a daily user of earbud.

I'm going to pair my Asus Essence STX with ATH-M50 for daily gaming (mostly FPS and RTS).
There are no Ultrasone product here and AD-700 is out-of-stock.

Need your recommendations, please.. Or is it overkill to use M50 for just Gaming?

Thanks..


----------



## Miskatonic

The M50 will do equally well with gaming or music. If you want a cheaper option that's better, try looking for a Creative Aurvana Live! (around US$60-100 online) if you can. Among the best imaging and soundstage for closed-back cans that can compete with higher priced brands. They're my primary gaming headphone.


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

The M50 headphones have a very small sound stage for gaming in both single and multiplayer titles. Before buying these, try to listen to a pair first.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?
> 
> 
> 
> So how can it be 'bright' when the frequency response line is flatline?
Click to expand...

Just because the graph says it's neutral doesn't mean it sounds neutral to people and many people feel it's a bright combination.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Just because the graph says it's neutral doesn't mean it sounds neutral to people and many people feel it's a bright combination.


via double blind test right? If not, then their impressions are scientifically invalid.
Anyway, *you can actually make it 'bright' if you wish and it's freeware and scientifically valid*.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

The definition of BRIGHT is an interesting one.
Some people's definition of bright differs from others - simply put.

It is only when you have heard a lot of things, when you can start keying down the term - ie. for me when it comes to IEMs I can definitely tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the FA dba-02 mkII's are very bright


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> The definition of BRIGHT is an interesting one.
> Some people's definition of bright differs from others - simply put.


Nah, *not really* (see figure 1).

There's _some_ variation, but all of it is in the general area and grouped.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Nah, *not really* (see figure 1).
> 
> There's _some_ variation, but all of it is in the general area and grouped.


I can't be bothered to read though that.
But I can assure you that the DBA mk2's are BRIGHT.
If you want to contest that then...


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Nah, *not really* (see figure 1).
> 
> There's _some_ variation, but all of it is in the general area and grouped.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I can't be bothered to read though that.
> But I can assure you that the DBA mk2's are BRIGHT.
> If you want to contest that then...


ITS TIME TO DUEL ! * insert Yugioh Music*
:3


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Just no.

In other news got a cable replacement for an interconnect...and it's still broken. I'm pissed off, this seller has no idea about quality of service, nor his own damn cables.


----------



## mikeaj

Lots of quotes and text here, so it's going in a spoiler to save some grief hopefully...


Spoiler: responses



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?
> 
> 
> 
> So how can it be 'bright' when the frequency response line is flatline?
Click to expand...

Depends what people consider bright.

Also, I'm sure you know this, but maybe some other factors not seen in FR can contribute to what some people consider bright-high distortion maybe (particularly in treble), instability / borderline oscillation, maybe even a low noise floor could reveal some garbage in the treble that would otherwise be drowned out. And so on.

That said, none of these things are features of the amp in question, so these hypotheses don't really work here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How about how it's bright, doesn't do a great job with the bass on headphones and supposedly has reduced sound stage compared to other amps?
> 
> 
> 
> So how can it be 'bright' when the frequency response line is flatline?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because the graph says it's neutral doesn't mean it sounds neutral to people and many people feel it's a bright combination.
Click to expand...

Maybe, depends on a lot of things.

Peoples' listening impressions for headphone amps are done by using headphones (me = master of obvious) and almost always with music and not test signals. You can't evaluate the sound of an amp in a figurative vacuum, without other gear. If some other part of the chain is bright relative to... something (real life sounds, another amp? who knows), then that could lead to some interpretation of the amp.

I don't think this situation is as common as some people say, but if some people are used to amps that roll off treble some, then an amp that doesn't do that might easily sound brighter, for example.

Obviously there are a lot of other psychological factors at play, like always. There tends to be an expectation for more solid-state and also op-amp-based amps to sound bright, so it's more likely for people to hear them that way regardless of the actual sound. Could be other things as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> The definition of BRIGHT is an interesting one.
> Some people's definition of bright differs from others - simply put.
> 
> It is only when you have heard a lot of things, when you can start keying down the term - ie. for me when it comes to IEMs I can definitely tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the FA dba-02 mkII's are very bright


I agree that different people can have different associations with different words, including "bright". Unfortunately, audio terminology is not used perfectly consistently between different people, which leads to some troubles communicating ideas. That said, see the link chinesekiwi posted, seriously. There is not total agreement on a lot of auditory descriptors, but for some things there are some strong trends.

That said, in this case it should be noted that DBA-02 has a bit of a bass rolloff and elevated treble relative to a lot of other IEMs, at least by tests by doctorhead.ru. Supposedly sound signature of the MKII is not much different. So this fits the description that most people would have of a bright sound, which agrees with what you report about them, for what that's worth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> The definition of BRIGHT is an interesting one.
> Some people's definition of bright differs from others - simply put.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, *not really* (see figure 1).
> 
> There's _some_ variation, but all of it is in the general area and grouped.
Click to expand...

For those that don't feel like reading a single graph yet somehow have the patience to read this post (hi there, 0 people), the data there shows that presentations with a high treble tilt strongly tend to be labeled as "bright" and other frequency responses usually are labeled as something other than "bright".

At least from a logical perspective, this data by itself does not indicate that such frequency responses are the *only* things that people label as "bright". P-implies-Q does not mean that Q requires P. Maybe A-implies-Q as well, or something else.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Nah, *not really* (see figure 1).
> 
> There's _some_ variation, but all of it is in the general area and grouped.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't be bothered to read though that.
> But I can assure you that the DBA mk2's are BRIGHT.
> If you want to contest that then...
Click to expand...

That's what, like two pages, and somebody already pointed out to just look at Figure 1? tl;dr and all, but a couple minutes is really not that extreme.

Also, I don't think anybody was arguing about the FA DBA-02 MKII being bright. Why the straw man? Or more likely, I guess you just read through some replies too quickly and missed the point? It happens to everybody sometimes I guess.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> ITS TIME TO DUEL ! * insert Yugioh Music*
> :3


Oh yeah.

Poll: is this a duel, a free-for-all, or one dude talking to himself?


----------



## g.androider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Miskatonic*
> 
> The M50 will do equally well with gaming or music. If you want a cheaper option that's better, try looking for a Creative Aurvana Live! (around US$60-100 online) if you can. Among the best imaging and soundstage for closed-back cans that can compete with higher priced brands. They're my primary gaming headphone.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> The M50 headphones have a very small sound stage for gaming in both single and multiplayer titles. Before buying these, try to listen to a pair first.


Miskatonic did a great job on information about Creative Aurvana Live! (thank you)
I did a vast research of Aurvana Live! Here in OCN, head-fi and other similar hi-fi headphones' websites.
Many sound-experts value this headphone, and including *simca* here at OCN.

So, here I am waiting for the postman tomorrow to deliver my Aurvana (about $90 in local online-store)
Thanks also to chalkbluffgrown for the warning of soundstage on ATH-M50. You're right about this... M50 isn't for Gaming.

Thank you all..


----------



## l1mt7

Hi.. I am little confusing here, looking for headphone for both music listening and gaming, and can't decide between HE400, Q701 and DT-880 600ohm. Any idea where should I go?









It will be really helpfull if anyone can tell how Q701 compared to DT880 600 ohm in terms of Soundstage ( width, depth and Heigh ).


----------



## Simca

Q701's soundstage is larger. Exageratingly so. DT880 has rear soundstage issues, but is otherwise all right.

HE-400s sound stage is nice. You're gonna want an amp for all of these.


----------



## worx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Q701's soundstage is larger. Exageratingly so. DT880 has rear soundstage issues, but is otherwise all right.
> 
> HE-400s sound stage is nice. You're gonna want an amp for all of these.


Between your DT880 and HE-400, which one do you like better?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *worx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Q701's soundstage is larger. Exageratingly so. DT880 has rear soundstage issues, but is otherwise all right.
> 
> HE-400s sound stage is nice. You're gonna want an amp for all of these.
> 
> 
> 
> Between your DT880 and HE-400, which one do you like better?
Click to expand...

Uhhh...for gaming the HE-400. For Bass the HE-400 by a LONG shot.

For highs the DT880s...the HE-400s suffer from highs IMO and because I love female vocals I'm selling these off. I've bought the HE-500s to replace them.


----------



## l1mt7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Q701's soundstage is larger. Exageratingly so. DT880 has rear soundstage issues, but is otherwise all right.
> 
> HE-400s sound stage is nice. You're gonna want an amp for all of these.


Thank you for a fast reply, so HE400 soundstage is the best among three?

I read somewhere said HE400 had mid issue that will be not that good for vocal strong music, do you find it is true?


----------



## l1mt7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Uhhh...for gaming the HE-400. For Bass the HE-400 by a LONG shot.
> 
> For highs the DT880s...the HE-400s suffer from highs IMO and *because I love female vocals I'm selling these off*. I've bought the HE-500s to replace them.


I guess it explained everything.

HE-400 got to out from business I think.









Only left the DT880 and Q701 then, for gaming and music which one you find it's better?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l1mt7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Uhhh...for gaming the HE-400. For Bass the HE-400 by a LONG shot.
> 
> For highs the DT880s...the HE-400s suffer from highs IMO and *because I love female vocals I'm selling these off*. I've bought the HE-500s to replace them.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it explained everything.
> 
> HE-400 got to out from business I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only left the DT880 and Q701 then, for gaming and music which one you find it's better?
Click to expand...

Up to you. I took the DT880s over the Q701, but there's no clear winner.


----------



## l1mt7

Plan get an external soundcard (for surround feature) + add Dac and Amp (to improve sound quality) to the chain.

Do you think is a good way to experience a virtual surround and have a good sound quality for music?

Or have a internal soundcard + amp is the better?

FPS especially Battlefield 3 is my main game + some action, RTS and sport. Is the Creative or Asus Sound Card will do the job better?

_Sorry if it sounds confusing, just let you know English is not my native._


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l1mt7*
> 
> Plan get an external soundcard (for surround feature) + add Dac and Amp (to improve sound quality) to the chain.
> 
> Do you think is a good way to experience a virtual surround and have a good sound quality for music?
> 
> Or have a internal soundcard + amp is the better?
> 
> FPS especially Battlefield 3 is my main game + some action, RTS and sport. Is the Creative or Asus Sound Card will do the job better?
> 
> _Sorry if it sounds confusing, just let you know English is not my native._


I would say an internal amp - as external soundcards won't really give you that surround sound - sure they might add a little soundstage, but nothing drastic.
In other words you are looking for something like the Dolby headphone surround sound, that's included with the asus range.
In that respect, you would also get one of the asus' that come with a built-in DAC/amp - such as the D2X or STX - that's my take on it at least.

EDIT:
Ah man!
Listening to some music right now through my EHP-O2D + Digizoid ZO2 (double amped) + D2K's - the combo is phenomenal!


----------



## l1mt7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I would say an internal amp - as external soundcards won't really give you that surround sound - sure they might add a little soundstage, but nothing drastic.
> In other words you are looking for something like the Dolby headphone surround sound, that's included with the asus range.
> In that respect, you would also get one of the asus' that come with a built-in DAC/amp - such as the D2X or STX - that's my take on it at least.
> 
> EDIT:
> Ah man!
> Listening to some music right now through my EHP-O2D + Digizoid ZO2 (double amped) + D2K's - the combo is phenomenal!


Thank you for the response.

I think what I mean is _an external Sound Card + external headphones Amp_ or _internal Sound Card as a DAC + external headphones Amp_, not an internal Amp.

Grabbed the Q701 and plan to add Graham Slee Solo SRG II, not sure it will work fine with Q701. Any idea?

@Simca and others, may I have your opinion here? Where should I go if my option and concern are something like this:

*A. Internal Sound Card as a DAC + Graham Slee Solo SRG II as an Amp.*

Will using this option for PC gaming and music.
I will stick with this option if it can give me an amazing improve of Sound and Virtual Surround Quality over option B.

*B. With external Sound Card* (only need the surround feature for gaming) *+ Headphones Dac and Amp* (for improve sound quality for music listening).

The benefit that I get from this option is I will be able to use this Set-Up on PC as well as on Console for gaming, besides of that I also can be using them for music listening with good quality of sound out of my PC.
I think with this option with the headphone DAC and AMP I will have a very good quality of sound for my music. However, not sure it will drastically decrease or just slightly lesser the performance of Surround Sound with PC gaming.
If the Sound and Virtual Surround Quality is equally or just slightly lesser from option A, than I will go with this for sure since it's give me a lot of benefits with multi purpose use.

Most concerns are how they performance on Surround, is it a big gap or just a slightly difference?


----------



## bratcat

Hi! I need help choosing a pair of speaker for my desktop. Which one should i go for between the pioneer bs22s and the primus p153s? They both are at the same price on amazon atm.

Can i use the lepai 2020 to power them?

Thank you.


----------



## douglatins

Any new recommendations over the Ti HD?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bratcat*
> 
> Hi! I need help choosing a pair of speaker for my desktop. Which one should i go for between the pioneer bs22s and the primus p153s? They both are at the same price on amazon atm.
> 
> Can i use the lepai 2020 to power them?
> 
> Thank you.


Yes you can use the lepai. I would go with the p153s personally.


----------



## Simca

Lepai is rather weak. Would seek a better amp.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

True, but the majority of people will not use more than 10 watts.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bratcat*
> 
> Hi! I need help choosing a pair of speaker for my desktop. Which one should i go for between the pioneer bs22s and the primus p153s? They both are at the same price on amazon atm.
> 
> Can i use the lepai 2020 to power them?
> 
> Thank you.


The BS22s are usually $50 at Newegg. And the P153s go for $100 at Fry's every so often.

It's cheap and will get the job done, but I'd still invest in a better amp though.


----------



## bratcat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Yes you can use the lepai. I would go with the p153s personally.


Thank you!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> The BS22s are usually $50 at Newegg. And the P153s go for $100 at Fry's every so often.


The bs22s are never on Newegg, the one on newegg was the bs21s which has been discontinued already. Amazon has the p153s on sale at $100 right now, the bs22s are $90.


----------



## aksthem1

Whoops I got confused with the older ones. The P153s are still a good buy.
I'd try to listen to the BS22s at a Best Buy. Plus they will price match with Amazon.


----------



## Buttnose

*Aune T1:*
http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=8297&page=1 (lots of waffle, but lots of good info/impressions/pics too)





Got linked this a few days ago, a real quality looking piece of kit that seems to be getting rave reviews and is selling for £130, £60 less a O2/ODAC combo from EHP. Thought I'd link it here as a possible all-in-one package for amp+dac, priced between the Schiit Modi + Magni and the O2/ODAC combo.


----------



## Simca

Interesting. Thanks sharing, will look into it.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

This is off topic, but thought it might bring a smile to a few faces (I created it







)


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> This is off topic, but thought it might bring a smile to a few faces (I created it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I don't think I know that feel bro. Too many artists. lol. JK, sure it's happened, but never had to rethink whether I put shuffle on..cuz I rarely do and if I do it's because I have no idea what to listen to.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I don't think I know that feel bro. Too many artists. lol. JK, sure it's happened, but never had to rethink whether I put shuffle on..cuz I rarely do and if I do it's because I have no idea what to listen to.


haha!
For me I almost always have shuffle on, except if I'm in the "recently added" part on poweramp. So sometimes I forget to switch it back.
That said, this meme came about from WMP.
Had Shakira play twice, right after each other - and my WMP was on shuffle.
Luck of the draw?


----------



## Simca

Game of odds. But really when you have artists entire discographies that span across a decade or more and 5+ albums, it's not hard for an artist to play back to back. Gonna play on shuffle and see which is the first artist to play back to back today.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Game of odds. But really when you have artists entire discographies that span across a decade or more and 5+ albums, it's not hard for an artist to play back to back. Gonna play on shuffle and see which is the first artist to play back to back today.


haha have fun Simca


----------



## Simca

That didn't take long. First two songs off the bat were Ludwig van Beethoven.

Not surprising as I have 1440 songs and 25GB worth from him alone.

3/6 were Beethoven.

2 Beethoven, 1 Lei Qiang, 1 X-Ray Dogs, 1 Crisis Core (FF7 OST) and back to Beethoven again.


----------



## pelle328

Hello was curious what everyone thinks of these speakers http://www.amazon.com/Alesis-M1-Active-520-Powered/dp/B000EJTXZU. I am going to be using these as computer speaks. Looking for crisp beautiful sounds. If there is anything better for a $200 let me know. Thanks!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pelle328*
> 
> Hello was curious what everyone thinks of these speakers http://www.amazon.com/Alesis-M1-Active-520-Powered/dp/B000EJTXZU. I am going to be using these as computer speaks. Looking for crisp beautiful sounds. If there is anything better for a $200 let me know. Thanks!


Go with them. Great pair of speakers, you'll be happy.

I also want to make an announcement. It's very rare that I take back an opinion I've given..I've probably done this once or twice, but I feel this correction should be made as I was very wrong. I wasn't a fan of the HD800s for the longest, always thought they were over-hyped and bright, but I didn't hear them with appropriate audio gear nor did I hear them for more than a few minutes.

I've had the chance to meet with a very famous Head-fi reviewer today that we'll call Frank. Frank has even more experience than I do with high end audio and I had the privilege of getting his insight into hi-fi headphones as well as an invitation to audition his gear at any time. Frank has access to all the best gear costing thousands of dollars. At the time of meeting he had in his possession a Burson Soloist SL, HE-6, HD800, Audio Technica ANV3000 Limited Edition and a few other headphones. While he wasn't a fan of the Audeze LCD-2 (his complaints were they fell apart and had a bunch of build quality issues) he definitely praised the HD800 for their soundstage and micro-detail. If I upgrade from my HE-500, I'm definitely going to look in the direction of the HD800.


----------



## pelle328

ok a couple more questions.

1) is it just plug them in and im set or do i have to buy anything else
2) where do i plug them into


----------



## Bdebrooke

Well as an early Birthday Present I got a Pair of ATH-M50's from a good friend of mine , Coiled Cable. They sound Amazing :3


----------



## HeyBear

Hey guys,

I was planning to buy some decent headphones later on in the year with a prospective rig I'm hoping to build but i'm feeling an urge to spend a little money and I thought there's no point in waiting if i'm just going to buy some anyway









I wasn't planning on including a sound card as my gaming skills don't really warrant such extravagance... With that in mind, I had intended to buy a NwAvGuy ODAC and amp combo to get away from any possible on-board issues (and also for an extra gadget!







).

I'd appreciate any recommendations for headphones you could give me around the £300 ($470) mark. Unfortunately our pounds don't stretch quite as far as your dollars so it might have to be a conservative price limit.

I'll hopefully use them for a bit of everything, gaming, movies and music. Music taste wise, it could be anything really although i'm most fond of folk/ indie, often female vocalists. This will be my first set of decent headphones so i'll probably be blown away with whatever I get. Comfort could be a concern as I will probably wear them for extended periods of time so opting for a head vice in pursuit of audio nirvana isn't what i'm going for.

Please let me know if you think I would benefit more from forgetting the amp/dac and spending more on the headphones. I could spend more/ less also if the performance gains are worth it or not.

Sorry if it's a bit vague, I'm a complete novice when it comes to audio and I thought this would be an excellent place to at least narrow the field a little


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I can't believe it!
http://www.audeoworld.com/en/GB/default.htm

Are out of the IEM business!
MY PFE232's are my all time favourite earphones.


----------



## Seyumi

Hello,
I asked this question a few months ago but got a pretty general response so I'm trying again.

I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. I'm using them for gaming primary and I love listening to electronica music as well. I consider myself the "Compromised Gamer" according to the 1st post and I want good bass but good directional sound as well.

I've narrowed it down to 2 choice. Either the Ultrasone Pro 900 or the Ultrasone Pro 2900. I currently own an Ultrasone HFI-700 and very impressed with it but want to upgrade. I know the 900's are closed-back and the 2900's are open-back. I don't care about sound leakage or whatnot. I am looking for the highest quality sound with good bass. I haven't seen many comparisons between the two headphones. I've noticed though that the 2900's are not nearly as popular as the 900's. The 2900's are more expensive than the 900's though. Does anyone have any experience with these two headphones? Which would be better primary for gaming if price isn't a factor? Thanks.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seyumi*
> 
> Hello,
> I asked this question a few months ago but got a pretty general response so I'm trying again.
> 
> I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. I'm using them for gaming primary and I love listening to electronica music as well. I consider myself the "Compromised Gamer" according to the 1st post and I want good bass but good directional sound as well.
> 
> I've narrowed it down to 2 choice. Either the Ultrasone Pro 900 or the Ultrasone Pro 2900. I currently own an Ultrasone HFI-700 and very impressed with it but want to upgrade. I know the 900's are closed-back and the 2900's are open-back. I don't care about sound leakage or whatnot. I am looking for the highest quality sound with good bass. I haven't seen many comparisons between the two headphones. I've noticed though that the 2900's are not nearly as popular as the 900's. The 2900's are more expensive than the 900's though. Does anyone have any experience with these two headphones? Which would be better primary for gaming if price isn't a factor? Thanks.


have you looked at the HiFiMAN HE-400?


----------



## 161029

The new "x" refresh variants of the AD### headphones aren't getting a lot of impressions. A bit surprising since I thought people would flock to the A700x and AD700x after how popular the AD700 was for gaming.


----------



## HPE1000

Well I am not entirely sure where to post this, I just posted it in the headphones club, but I think this is a better place to put it.

My question:

So I am a HUGE noob at audio and I have asked around here a couple times but I have a mini itx computer and my only pcie slot is occupied with a graphics card so I cannot get an internal sound card. I am looking into an external sound card and I have been recommended fiio a lot, I am looking at the fiio E07K and E17, does the price difference make sense for me who is probably never going to buy headphones that cost more than $250? ALSO I don't mind if I get a different product, as the portability of these fiio is not what I care much about, if it's 10x bigger I don't mind as long as it is good. It will only ever be plugged into my desktop or laptop but 99% just my desktop.

ATM I am just using a JVC HA-RX700 but I will be buying better headphones down the road.

ALSO (dont kill me!) I for the most part just listen to music on youtube as I move from song to song and I am wondering if I will experience any better listening quality going from onboard sound and my current headset to an external sound card and more expensive headset.

sorry for being the second person to ask a question in a row.

My main thing right now is getting better bass and I see these fiio have bass boosting so that will help wonders as I listen to hip/hop.v


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> The new "x" refresh variants of the AD### headphones aren't getting a lot of impressions. A bit surprising since I thought people would flock to the A700x and AD700x after how popular the AD700 was for gaming.


Price.


----------



## gameworm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HPE1000*
> 
> Well I am not entirely sure where to post this, I just posted it in the headphones club, but I think this is a better place to put it.
> 
> My question:
> 
> So I am a HUGE noob at audio and I have asked around here a couple times but I have a mini itx computer and my only pcie slot is occupied with a graphics card so I cannot get an internal sound card. I am looking into an external sound card and I have been recommended fiio a lot, I am looking at the fiio E07K and E17, does the price difference make sense for me who is probably never going to buy headphones that cost more than $250? ALSO I don't mind if I get a different product, as the portability of these fiio is not what I care much about, if it's 10x bigger I don't mind as long as it is good. It will only ever be plugged into my desktop or laptop but 99% just my desktop.
> 
> ATM I am just using a JVC HA-RX700 but I will be buying better headphones down the road.
> 
> ALSO (dont kill me!) I for the most part just listen to music on youtube as I move from song to song and I am wondering if I will experience any better listening quality going from onboard sound and my current headset to an external sound card and more expensive headset.
> 
> sorry for being the second person to ask a question in a row.
> 
> My main thing right now is getting better bass and I see these fiio have bass boosting so that will help wonders as I listen to hip/hop.v


I have the rx700 and fiio e17 and I can say it does make a difference. As far as e07k vs e17, I haven't listened to the e07k but I've read that the main differences are the extra features on the e17, like the optical in.


----------



## Scorpion667

As per the OP I will be going with the Asus Xonar STX to drive my DT770 Pro 80's. Would like to confirm, can the build built in amp be disabled? I understand some amp's don't jive well with the Custom One Pro's(16ohm impedance) and would like the option to turn it off if possible.


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> As per the OP I will be going with the Asus Xonar STX to drive my DT770 Pro 80's. Would like to confirm, can the build in amp be disabled? I understand some amp's don't jive well with the Custom One Pro's(16ohm impedance) and would like the option to turn it off if possible.


If it's anything like the amp in the Xonar DG (which I assume it is), yes it can be turned off.


----------



## bumblebee1980

you can't turn it off.


----------



## bavman

Hi guys, I'm looking for a pair of headphones for jazz and vocals (mostly female vocals and mellow music). My current setup is a dt990/600 with a o2/odac combo. I'm looking to spend in the 250 range, no more than 300 though. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to used headphones either, actually I would probably prefer it since I can most likely get something better for my money. I was looking at the k701/702 or q701, or the hd600/650s. Are these good options to look into or should I try something else?

Thanks


----------



## Simca

HD580(discontinued), HD600 are good...HD650 if you could afford it, but you'll likely go with the HD600. Good headphone. Forward mids. Neutral. Good for jazz. Suggest an amp though.

HD650 laid back sound probably best for jazz. The bass on them is warm and thick too so it works the best...but also the most expensive.


----------



## liquidzoo

I would think the 990s would perform very well for that. Maybe something from Grado? The other ones you suggested would do well too, I would think. I've never heard them to give you an opinion one way or the other.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

The sennheiser range is great for jazz, as they're nice and smooth and concentrate mainly on highs and mids. I wouldn't look elsewhere.


----------



## bavman

Okay thanks guys. I'll keep my eyes open for a pair of used 600/650s


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bavman*
> 
> Okay thanks guys. I'll keep my eyes open for a pair of used 600/650s


http://app.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-sennheiser-hd600-head-phones-near-mint-very-low-hours-2013-02-08-headphones-74604-ponca-city-ok


----------



## Simca

I suggest you see head-fi's for sale section as you'll get better prices than Audiogon for sure. At the price those 600s are going, for just a few more you can have a used 650.

Seek 600s at ~215.


----------



## bumblebee1980

$250 is fair. 10/10 condition is brand new in box.

some guy tried to sell me a pair of Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2 that have been through 3 OWNERS.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> $250 is fair. 10/10 condition is brand new in box.
> 
> some guy tried to sell me a pair of Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2 that have been through 3 OWNERS.


So what. Who cares if it's had 50 owners if the condition is still great.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I care when they cost $800. I rather just buy a new pair for my dad's birthday.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> So what. Who cares if it's had 50 owners if the condition is still great.


^this.


----------



## bumblebee1980

$800 for a pair of LCD-2 that has been through 3 owners with a dinged up display case and stock cable is a BAD DEAL.


----------



## Simca

The only thing bad I see there is the price. Put that at 700 and it's a good deal.


----------



## bumblebee1980

if it came with the travel case and an aftermarket cable I would pay $700. this guy and another were clearly trying to make they're money back and I won't help them.


----------



## Simca

You'll very rarely find a 1000 dollar LCD-2 REV 2 for under 700.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the stock cable it comes with is terrible. it's too long, flat and the quarter inch connector is crap and has problems making a good connection in some headphone amplifiers. it needs to be changed and I don't want to pay for it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I have also heard complaints about the cable fraying in some way. I didn't keep it long enough to find out. so it's more like a $1200 headphone.


----------



## bavman

You can make your own cables for it for under $50 with the same quality wire used in expensive aftermarket cables.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I used to make cables for my home theaters but I stopped a while ago. you get to a point where you have more money and less time.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Hey Simca, when I play fairly loud music, I get annoying screechiness in the highs. If I get a new receiver, like say a Denon 791, would that go away?


----------



## Simca

Not if the limitation is in the speakers.

could try eqing the highs down a bit too.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not if the limitation is in the speakers.
> 
> could try eqing the highs down a bit too.


I don't think it's the speakers. It was much the same on my KLHs, just not as bad as they only went up to 14khz, not 25. (3.5 inch tweeter) Not fully sure though.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> if it came with the travel case and an aftermarket cable I would pay $700. this guy and another were clearly trying to make they're money back and I won't help them.


My 4 pin xlr lcd2 cable only costs 50 dollars, well made and all. I don't think people should be paying that much extra just b/c it comes with an extra upgraded cable. Unless it's some outstanding cables like zeus double helix I doubt that people should be paying that much.

The only thing though is that in the audio world, b/c equipment don't "expire" as quickly as computer equipment, prices often stay high. It's up to your bartering skills to negotiate a fair price for something that's been through three owners.


----------



## connectwise

/snip


----------



## bumblebee1980

I bought the Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2 in Bamboo with a Toxic Copper cable for $775 including shipping. if my dad wants a silver cable he can pay for it


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Good price!
I've had a return open for my interconnect I bought from toxic since December...still don't have a working cable.


----------



## bumblebee1980

it took some doing to get him down from $800.

there is a guy on Youtube who had some problems with Toxic cables too.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it took some doing to get him down from $800.
> there is a guy on Youtube who had some problems with Toxic cables too.


I appreciate the problem, in my case is due to use - although one would expect a cable to last longer than 5 months - but the way he talked to me and acted....beyond disgusting to say the least.
I've given up chasing up on the cable.
Been over a month now since I re-sent it for repair.

First repair, he said he fixed it, but in fact it never was actually fixed. I created a private youtube video for him to understand the problem.
Long story short: I still have no cable, no communications from him for the last month and won't ever recommend his products.
I spent only £35 on that cable - I can't imagine wanting to spend £300 on a cable from there.

Anyway, enough of that or else he will come along and complain.
Really loving "Custom Art's" wire jobs - can't wait to get mine in.
Piotr is a great guy to chat with too!


----------



## bumblebee1980

sorry to hear that. here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpe4lUf52lU&list=UUq2Cxumhx4UR1cy6rvZVMrg&index=1

there is a happy ending.


----------



## Sebiale

Looking at the OP, I wonder--do decent speakers generally cost more than decent headphones?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> Looking at the OP, I wonder--do decent speakers generally cost more than decent headphones?


absolutely. significantly more.


----------



## bumblebee1980

just building a HiFi listening room isn't cheap.

20, 30-amp circuits, sound proofing, measuring the room, acoustic panels, decoupling, etc. even with an existing room, the cheapest electrician and making your own acoustic treatment it still cost more than the Sennheiser HD800.


----------



## EPiiKK

Im looking to buy new headset as my second pair of fatalities died after six months...

I realized what kind of crap all the gaming headsets are, so i decided to go with good headphones and use the zalman clip mic on the cord. (budget can't afford anything better)

I have three options where to buy from:
http://www.jimms.fi/listaa/763/order/price/asc
http://www.silentrig.com/category/104/kuulokkeet
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/6157c/Kuulokkeet-Sankakuulokkeet

I can't find any of the recommended cans there.
I do 50% fps gaming, mostly counter-strike, DayZ and ARMA, and 50% music
I sometimes do over 10h gaming nights (DayZ is addictive with friends) and LAN parties so comfort is a big factor, I have medium sized ears.
I listen to a lot of DnB music so i need bass to them also.
My budget is 50-60€ but i can go higher if it's truly worth it.
Thanks!


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Im looking to buy new headset as my second pair of fatalities died after six months...
> 
> I realized what kind of crap all the gaming headsets are, so i decided to go with good headphones and use the zalman clip mic on the cord. (budget can't afford anything better)
> 
> I have three options where to buy from:
> http://www.jimms.fi/listaa/763/order/price/asc
> http://www.silentrig.com/category/104/kuulokkeet
> http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/6157c/Kuulokkeet-Sankakuulokkeet
> 
> I can't find any of the recommended cans there.
> I do 50% fps gaming, mostly counter-strike, DayZ and ARMA, and 50% music
> I sometimes do over 10h gaming nights (DayZ is addictive with friends) and LAN parties so comfort is a big factor, I have medium sized ears.
> I listen to a lot of DnB music so i need bass to them also.
> My budget is 50-60€ but i can go higher if it's truly worth it.
> Thanks!


Based on this site: http://www.silentrig.com/category/104/kuulokkeet

I'd recommend the AKG K701 if you can afford it, you will of course need a decent soundcard or an external DAC+amp.
If not, go with the Sennheiser HD558. I'd assume you want open cans since you do most of your gaming on FPS like you say.

IF that is still too expensive, the Samson SR850 is a popular budget headphone.


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Based on this site: http://www.silentrig.com/category/104/kuulokkeet
> 
> I'd recommend the AKG K701 if you can afford it, you will of course need a decent soundcard or an external DAC+amp.
> If not, go with the Sennheiser HD558. I'd assume you want open cans since you do most of your gaming on FPS like you say.
> 
> IF that is still too expensive, the Samson SR850 is a popular budget headphone.


Both are like 3 times my budget...
Oh nvm gonna go with the samson sr850, Just my price range


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Although price wise bee, earphones cost more than headphones, generally speaking for quality/performance for buck


----------



## Sebiale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Although price wise bee, earphones cost more than headphones, generally speaking for quality/performance for buck


I'm sorry, I don't understand what you just said.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I think he is talking about in ear monitors.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you just said.


earphones, that have extra drivers - ie W3 vs W1 get ridiculously expensive very fast.
Whereas with headphones, it usually is the technology used within the headphones.

Long story short - earphones jump up in price very fast whereas headphones don't

Don't get me wrong headphones are more expensive than earphones (high-end) but I fail to see why one would pay that much (I'm speaking over £1500)


----------



## bumblebee1980

I don't like IEM. I haven't tried any customs but I have tried some pretty expensive universals and I don't think they're on par at all with flagship headphones.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I don't like IEM. I haven't tried any customs but I have tried some pretty expensive universals and I don't think they're on par at all with flagship headphones.


Well, I agree, but would you take a big set of headphones on the train, whilst on a cycle ride etc?
usually the answer is no - although some on head-fi seem to think the XB700's & XB1000's are portable.

Anyway - IEM's for me have always been convenient. I pocket (in a pouch) my PFE232's and I'm always in love when I listen to them.
I couldn't see myself carrying around my beloved D2K's without them breaking in under a week or so


----------



## bumblebee1980

no but i'm into home audio only.

i'm not into portable audio. my local HiFi stores sell car and marine audio. i'm not into that either. I like HiFi listening rooms and home theaters


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> no but i'm into home audio only.
> 
> i'm not into portable audio. my local HiFi stores sell car and marine audio. i'm not into that either. I like HiFi listening rooms and home theaters


I wish I had time and money for that


----------



## bumblebee1980

being a crack addict is cheaper but not as fun


----------



## Simca

cocaine costs much much more than audio.


----------



## ZombieJon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Anyway - IEM's for me have always been convenient. I pocket (in a pouch) my PFE232's and I'm always in love when I listen to them.
> I couldn't see myself carrying around my beloved D2K's without them breaking in under a week or so


One of the reasons why I love IEMs so much is because I currently live in Hong Kong. Any set of cans here in the summer is a major pain - loud traffic so closed cans are needed, but it's also hot and _humid_.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> cocaine costs much much more than audio.


challenge...accepted?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZombieJon*
> 
> One of the reasons why I love IEMs so much is because I currently live in Hong Kong. Any set of cans here in the summer is a major pain - loud traffic so closed cans are needed, but it's also hot and _humid_.[/quote
> 
> yup another good reason


----------



## dioxholster

Im a little indesicive here, dont know what to pick. Either microlab solo6c or m-audio av40 or swans or creative t40 series II. Need something that has good bass, since it will have no subwoofer to go with it ever probably as space constraints do not allow it.


----------



## Simca

Out of the choices you've selected I would choose the Microlabs Solo6C.


----------



## dioxholster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Out of the choices you've selected I would choose the Microlabs Solo6C.


Does it have good bass though? are you sure not Creative GigaWorks T40 Series II they have 3 drivers? microlab is out of stock at the moment.


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> Does it have good bass though? are you sure not Creative GigaWorks T40 Series II they have 3 drivers? microlab is out of stock at the moment.


Simca is an audio Goddess. She really knows her stuff.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> Does it have good bass though? are you sure not Creative GigaWorks T40 Series II they have 3 drivers? microlab is out of stock at the moment.


the Microlab cabinets are larger and have more power.


----------



## Simca

Of all the speakers you've selected the Microlabs have the most bass. Good bass is subjective. I prefer speakers for their clarity and detail. I let the subwoofer do the work on the bass unless it's in the home theater. If it's in the home theater, then I prefer the dual towers to help with the bass while the subwoofer aims for the really low notes.


----------



## MAD-DUKE

If I have a Denon Receiver for my computer sound system, why would I not need a sound card? Would a sound card not improve my sound quality?


----------



## bavman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MAD-DUKE*
> 
> If I have a Denon Receiver for my computer sound system, why would I not need a sound card? Would a sound card not improve my sound quality?


Your receiver already has a built in DAC. You can generally bypass your receivers DAC by feeding it an analog signal. It'll only improve your sound quality if you have a better DAC than the one built into the receiver.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> Does it have good bass though? are you sure not Creative GigaWorks T40 Series II they have 3 drivers? microlab is out of stock at the moment.


The Gigaworks T40 isn't bad and has a decent amount of bass, but I would go with the Microlabs. There are a lot of different Swans so you would have to specify.


----------



## Simca

He means the Swan M10 no doubt and the bass on those is severely lacking.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> He means the Swan M10 no doubt and the bass on those is severely lacking.


That's what I thought considering the other choices. Yeah, it's not all that great on those either.


----------



## Rpg2

Sweet write up, Simca. Got me a Xonar DG on the way because of it.

How are Fostex T50RP for casual gaming? I plan to get them for modded for music soon, and I was curious of how well they do in games like STALKER.

I also plan to upgrade speakers in the future (after getting T50RPs) from my Logitech S-220 to either M-Audio AV40 or Klipsch Promedia 2.1, which set is better for movies, shows, music. I assume the AV40s don't need a subwoofer?

Priority is music >>> movies > gaming. I also prefer detail and quality (also bass quality) over bass quantity (as long as theres a decent amount of bass quantity).


----------



## nvidiaftw12

They have a 4" woofer. For me a subwoofer would be a necessity.


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> They have a 4" woofer. For me a subwoofer would be a necessity.


I have no experience with speakers, but 4" woofers sound adequate. I'm probably wrong though, hah.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rpg2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> They have a 4" woofer. For me a subwoofer would be a necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no experience with speakers, but 4" woofers sound adequate. I'm probably wrong though, hah.
Click to expand...

Generally for that kind of design that gets you about to 100 Hz or a bit above before rolloff. That's about what's shown even in M-Audio's docs. Their claimed FR is just 85 Hz - 20 kHz (within some +/- tolerance of... some amount).

Many people would want more bass, but depending on expectations and habits it may be acceptable.

(and that's even forgetting the distortion, ringing, other issues; also ignoring room interactions)


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Generally for that kind of design that gets you about to 100 Hz or a bit above before rolloff. That's about what's shown even in M-Audio's docs. Their claimed FR is just 85 Hz - 20 kHz (within some +/- tolerance of... some amount).
> 
> Many people would want more bass, but depending on expectations and habits it may be acceptable.
> 
> (and that's even forgetting the distortion, ringing, other issues; also ignoring room interactions)


Thanks!

My priority is music above all else so, like I said earlier, detail and quality is priority over TV entertainment and games. I'm looking up the specs for the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 and it seems it has better bass response down to 31Hz. I like that the Klipsch satellites are more compact. I barely have enough space for my S-220 speakers as it is. The M-Audios wouldn't fit unless I did a lot of rearranging.

The main reason I asked about the M-Audios is that I assumed they were superior in quality to the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 because they were active speakers, but I was unsure. I'm leaning towards the Promedia 2.1s now.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Got my silver interconnect in - really pleased with the sound quality and the look of it - from Custom Art (the company):


----------



## Simca

That's why I don't like portable audio through a portable DAC.

Huge block on the back. Ugly.


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's why I don't like portable audio through a portable DAC.
> 
> Huge block on the back. Ugly.


Is there another option for Portable audio?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MAD-DUKE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's why I don't like portable audio through a portable DAC.
> 
> Huge block on the back. Ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there another option for Portable audio?
Click to expand...

Smartphone alone.


----------



## ja9219

Or this

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_818HM6018G/HiFiMAN-Express-HM-601-Slim.html?tp=242&kw=&org=pla&nw=g&crv=20057923105

http://head-direct.com/Products/?cid=5


----------



## Totally Dubbed

hmm you know how big the ZO2 is?
That whole DAC is huge thing, doesn't really play part in my setup. It really is a tiny thing - in fact the most annoying part of my rig is the case + 3M dual lock - without them, the zo2 fits in your pocket really well and really discretely.

Smartphone alone is an option - but honestly, there's no competition, for me, with ANY smartphone vs source + ZO2 - I really love that little amp - I don't really consider it an amp, but more of a sound enhancer. One has to hear it to really understand it.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's why I don't like portable audio through a portable DAC.
> 
> Huge block on the back. Ugly.


I agree.

Portable "rigs" are ridiculous and another scam propagated by the nuts at head-fi.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> hmm you know how big the ZO2 is?
> That whole DAC is huge thing, doesn't really play part in my setup. It really is a tiny thing - in fact the most annoying part of my rig is the case + 3M dual lock - without them, the zo2 fits in your pocket really well and really discretely.
> 
> Smartphone alone is an option - but honestly, there's no competition, for me, with ANY smartphone vs source + ZO2 - I really love that little amp - I don't really consider it an amp, but more of a sound enhancer. One has to hear it to really understand it.


Not so much the size..it's just that anything in addition to the size of your phone is too much.


----------



## dioxholster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Of all the speakers you've selected the Microlabs have the most bass. Good bass is subjective. I prefer speakers for their clarity and detail. I let the subwoofer do the work on the bass unless it's in the home theater. If it's in the home theater, then I prefer the dual towers to help with the bass while the subwoofer aims for the really low notes.


hmm, I do like bass, not over the top dubstep thing, just for games and movies I want to jump from my seat when there are explosions. i thought people would be telling me to get m-audio since they are well known and popular with sites like cnet (i don't know real audio review sites). The solo7c towers i heard have better bass but again no space for them, only bookshelf and even then im not too sure if those big solo6c will be comfortable on my desk. they are out of stock though, i asked them and it seems like a long wait so if i cant get them what would be your second choice? it doesn't have to be from my list, could be from the front page too.


----------



## Simca

IMO, you should get Klipsch ProMedia speakers.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> hmm, I do like bass, not over the top dubstep thing, just for games and movies I want to jump from my seat when there are explosions. i thought people would be telling me to get m-audio since they are well known and popular with sites like cnet (i don't know real audio review sites). The solo7c towers i heard have better bass but again no space for them, only bookshelf and even then im not too sure if those big solo6c will be comfortable on my desk. they are out of stock though, i asked them and it seems like a long wait so if i cant get them what would be your second choice? it doesn't have to be from my list, could be from the front page too.


no room for a subwoofer? okay.. you want bass but don't have room for large 8" monitors.
you should go with headphones or build a home theater in a proper room


----------



## dioxholster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> no room for a subwoofer? okay.. you want bass but don't have room for large 8" monitors.
> you should go with headphones or build a home theater in a proper room


well I do have room under my feet, but where will my feet go? how big are subwoofers anyway, if its as big as the Logitech z2300 I used to have then that's way too big.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

They get big. Logitech ones are pretty dinky.  Mine is 16.13" x 15.13" x 18.19", many are bigger.


----------



## Simca

Mine is 21 1⁄4" H x 17" W x 25" and freakin' 74 lbs.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> well I do have room under my feet, but where will my feet go? how big are subwoofers anyway, if its as big as the Logitech z2300 I used to have then that's way too big.


not that big.



I still think the best value and way to extract audio out of your room is with headphones.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Oh I feel the flame coming out of Simca's head:
http://instagram.com/p/Wp5wPCSwZm/

Loving the combo!


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Way to ruin a photo.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Way to ruin a photo.


Ruin? Just because I used IG?
Actually, without the effect, you wouldn't have been able to see the Denon's


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Ruin? Just because I used IG?
> Actually, without the effect, you wouldn't have been able to see the Denon's


Yup. All dat grain.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Yup. All dat grain.


Yeah sorry, low light + S3....XDA-it


----------



## Simca

S3=Answer

Us hippies have DSLR's ~Super Hi5~


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Close enough to a high five. xD


----------



## dioxholster

im not a headphone guy not even when gaming, but if i wait for speakers, how do i use temporary headphones since frontpanel jack needs mobos drivers instead of soundcards?


----------



## liquidzoo

Front panel should be able to be attached to the sound card, but you'd be better off using the rear jacks.


----------



## dioxholster

im not too sure earphones or headphones have cables long enough to reach it since its on the floor.


----------



## liquidzoo

Extension cable? Mine have a 3m cable, so I don't have that issue fortunately.


----------



## dioxholster

what do you guys think of Plantronics GameCom 307? good bad?


----------



## Nocturnal Link

So, I tried finding my answer by searching this thread for anything related to "receiver," but after 15 minutes of looking, I haven't.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR818 audio video receiver. I recently purchased a third GTX 580 for use in Tri-SLI, which kind of got rid of my sound card option.

In this scenario, what would be best and did I even need a sound card in the first place? Should I simply use an optical cable to the receiver from the motherboard's out port or should I use the 7.1 color coded analog cables from my motherboard's out ports?

I _think_ using the digital cable would produce the best and most accurate sound overall because the receiver would be decoding the signal using its DAC; right?

If I use the analog cables coming from the motherboard and to the receiver, the crappy on-board motherboard audio... thing... would be doing the decoding and THEN sending the audio to the receiver which would output it to the speakers/headphones as it was decoded by the PC; correct?

And, since the motherboard's on-board audio is likely trash compared to my $900 receiver, I should use a single TOSlink optical cable; yah? I use a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP7, if that information is helpful in anyway.

Thanks for any input! Great thread!


----------



## liquidzoo

Optical would be the way to go, assuming if course that your onboard is capable of things like DTS which would still matter even with an optical out (would control the signal being output, even when the decoding is being done by the receiver).


----------



## liquidzoo

Double post...


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> what do you guys think of Plantronics GameCom 307? good bad?


Pretty much anything with "gaming" in the title or description is overpriced or bad or both.


----------



## eliongater

Is the Audio Technica A700x basicly the same as the Audio Technica A700? Because the Audio Technica A700 is in the list but not the Audio Technica A700x


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliongater*
> 
> Is the Audio Technica A700x basicly the same as the Audio Technica A700? Because the Audio Technica A700 is in the list but not the Audio Technica A700x


no.

the A700 (discontinued) has a 64 ohm impedance and 102dB/mW sensitivity.
the A700X has a 38 ohm impedance and 100dB/mW sensitivity.

probably a different driver.


----------



## eliongater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> no.
> 
> the A700 (discontinued) has a 64 ohm impedance and 102dB/mW sensitivity.
> the A700X has a 38 ohm impedance and 100dB/mW sensitivity.
> 
> probably a different driver.


Is one better? or just different?


----------



## bumblebee1980

that I don't know.


----------



## dioxholster

okay i got a cheapo creative headset hs-450, until microlabs are back in stock. im using xonar dx for first time coming from creative's, and the dolby options seem kinda useless. for headphones they take away the bass.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Hey ladies and gents!

Could you guys let me know why when I fold my sound system (at loud volumes) starts having high-pitched fits?

I'm using the Logitech Z-5500 connected to my Asus Xonar DX (PCI-e) - my GPU and CPU are folding:


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliongater*
> 
> Is one better? or just different?


I have heard that the A900X has more bass output than its A900 sibling. I'm not sure if the same applies for the A700 and A700X


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Does anyone have any recommendations for headphones for listening to metal/rock for public use, closed and look pretty good, from somewhere around $100-$250?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Hey ladies and gents!
> 
> Could you guys let me know why when I fold my sound system (at loud volumes) starts having high-pitched fits?
> 
> I'm using the Logitech Z-5500 connected to my Asus Xonar DX (PCI-e) - my GPU and CPU are folding:


got an old CD Player laying around? run a toslink cable into the Z-5500 control pod.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I don't no lol.
I have a toslink into my Xbox.
My friend was saying it was due to coil whine


----------



## bumblebee1980

try toslink out of your motherboard. if you don't want to build a folding computer. something like this will help.

http://us.store.creative.com/Sound-Blaster-XFi-Surround-5.1/M/B0017QQQAE.htm


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I'm completely confused how that relates to me.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the speakers are picking up noise when folding, right? running analog out of the Xonar DX? try digital. if you can't hear noise with digital, go get a external sound card. that way you can wub wub wub while you fold


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the speakers are picking up noise when folding, right? running analog out of the Xonar DX? try digital. if you can't hear noise with digital, go get a external sound card. that way you can wub wub wub while you fold


ah ok understood bro









Although I wouldn't do that, as that would be either extra costs and/or by-passing the DX processing to the Z-5500.

I was curious more than anything, and more so it is needed on BOOST 11, which is literally deafening levels lol


----------



## Heavy MG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> ah ok understood bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although I wouldn't do that, as that would be either extra costs and/or by-passing the DX processing to the Z-5500.
> 
> I was curious more than anything, and more so it is needed on BOOST 11, which is literally deafening levels lol


A high end sound card just shouldn't be doing that though even when being a graphics card sandwich,I wonder if the SB-Z would be better since it has an EMI shield?


----------



## bumblebee1980

if you take 2 separates (amplifiers, receivers, pre-amplifiers, etc.) and stack them on top of each other then put a compass on top, it will behave erratically. those "shields" on sound cards offer no protection at all. there is so much EMI/RFI going around inside the case, switching power supplies, motherboard switch noise, etc. steel provides the best shielding which is why you find it on a lot of tube amplifiers.

edit: tube amps


----------



## Simca

Simple answer, don't fold.


----------



## benben84

Hey guys, I'm looking to integrate a receiver into my computer sound and move on from my Logitech Z-2300's. I've been searching for months on bookshelf speakers and cannot come up with anything that really interests me.

I'm looking at 2.0 and 3.0 setups!

What I will be using:

*Receiver:* Yamaha RX-V663
*Speakers:* TBD
*Connection1:* Computer to Receiver - optical/toslink
*Connection2:* Xbox to Receiver - optical/toslink and/or HDMI
*Sub:* Polk Audio PSW505 - This will be coming from my HT when I upgrade to a DIY
*Monitor:* 27" LCD, may eventually have it mounted on a movable arm

Uses:

50% Loud Music (metal,rock,rap,dubstep,etc) - I workout in the same room and need the music loud and the bass to shake walls
50% Casual gaming - I mostly play RPG/RTS games but I do play some FPS.

Needs:

- I want to be able to have very clear and detailed sounds, like you'd hear with some higher quality headphones
- I want to be able to have the volume loud enough to hear several rooms away
- I don't care too much on size as long as they are desktop appropriate, a slimmer/taller speaker would be better than a giant square
- I typically do not like the boxy speakers, something more rounded and visually pleasing - this might be a hard one to find
- Needs to sound good with my large sub
- I prefer material to be of NON wood appearance - no a huge deal as I can always vinyl wrap or paint them
- Need to be work on 95W per channel

Stuff I've looked at:
Paradigm Studio 10
Monitor Audio RX2
Dynaudio DM 2/6
Polk Audio Monitor 45B
JBL Studio 130
Definitive Tech StudioMonitor 45

Anything you guys can recommend?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking to integrate a receiver into my computer sound and move on from my Logitech Z-2300's. I've been searching for months on bookshelf speakers and cannot come up with anything that really interests me.
> 
> I'm looking at 2.0 and 3.0 setups!
> 
> What I will be using:
> 
> *Receiver:* Yamaha RX-V663
> *Speakers:* TBD
> *Connection1:* Computer to Receiver - optical/toslink
> *Connection2:* Xbox to Receiver - optical/toslink and/or HDMI
> *Sub:* Polk Audio PSW505 - This will be coming from my HT when I upgrade to a DIY
> *Monitor:* 27" LCD, may eventually have it mounted on a movable arm
> 
> Uses:
> 
> 50% Loud Music (metal,rock,rap,dubstep,etc) - I workout in the same room and need the music loud and the bass to shake walls
> 50% Casual gaming - I mostly play RPG/RTS games but I do play some FPS.
> 
> Needs:
> 
> - I want to be able to have very clear and detailed sounds, like you'd hear with some higher quality headphones
> - I want to be able to have the volume loud enough to hear several rooms away
> - I don't care too much on size as long as they are desktop appropriate, a slimmer/taller speaker would be better than a giant square
> - I typically do not like the boxy speakers, something more rounded and visually pleasing - this might be a hard one to find
> - Needs to sound good with my large sub
> - I prefer material to be of NON wood appearance - no a huge deal as I can always vinyl wrap or paint them
> - Need to be work on 95W per channel
> 
> Stuff I've looked at:
> Paradigm Studio 10
> Monitor Audio RX2
> Dynaudio DM 2/6
> Polk Audio Monitor 45B
> JBL Studio 130
> Definitive Tech StudioMonitor 45
> 
> Anything you guys can recommend?


I know just the speaker for you. Epos Epic 2 ($799/pr)


----------



## bumblebee1980

if you can't afford those. PSB makes a bookshelf called the B6 for $550/pr.


----------



## benben84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I know just the speaker for you. Epos Epic 2 ($799/pr)


I've seen those mentioned before but that is nearing the price where my wife steps in. haha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> if you can't afford those. PSB makes a bookshelf called the B6 for $550/pr.


That's about the range I was looking for.

Thanks, I'll check them out tomorrow.


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> I've seen those mentioned before but that is nearing the price where my wife steps in. haha
> That's about the range I was looking for.
> 
> Thanks, I'll check them out tomorrow.


Another one into the mix. The Swan D2.1SE is also around that $550/pr range.


----------



## Heavy MG

Newegg has the Creative XFi Titanium HD for $99 after promo. I've found so far that people are saying it's better than the SB Z & Zx,is that true?


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy MG*
> 
> Newegg has the Creative XFi Titanium HD for $99 after promo. I've found so far that people are saying it's better than the SB Z & Zx,is that true?


The HD has a better DAC, but does not have dedicated amplifier. The only SB that is a true upgrade is the ZxR.


----------



## EPiiKK

I got my Creative Aurvana Lives today, oh man i love them. Perfect for games and still great for music! I'm no audiophile, can't really talk about sound quality but i love it after using Fatal1ties









Thanks for the thread, it's awesome!


----------



## Totally Dubbed

New title holder (in my eyes) for the best EDM earphones:
Denon AH-C400's

Beats the MG7's by a considerable margin. ASOT couldn't sound any better.
Neutral sounding earphones? You got it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I thought you didn't like those?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I thought you didn't like those?


Those were maybe the HEADPHONES the NCW500's?

I did seem to have a problem with the C400's (I don't know if I said that publicly) but I thought the lows were distorting.
Long story short:
Lows aren't its forte.

EDIT:
Here's my review








http://www.totallydubbed.net/2013/03/20/review-of-the-denon-ah-c400-earphones-a-neutral-sounding-earphone/


----------



## MKUL7R4

Would you guys still recommend the Monoprice 108323 ($34) over the Audio-Technica ATH-M30 ($37)?

Will mostly be used for gaming but obviously will listen to some music with them as well.

Edit: Just ordered the Technicas. I'm not an "audiophile" so I'm sure they will be just fine for me, especially compared to my cheap Logitech speakers or old Sennheiser HD 202 headphones.


----------



## zer0sum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> I've seen those mentioned before but that is nearing the price where my wife steps in. haha
> That's about the range I was looking for.
> 
> Thanks, I'll check them out tomorrow.


Let me throw a bit of a curve ball in here









I did a huge search a while ago and ended up with a pair of Cambridge S30's
They are cheap and have plenty of WAF


----------



## funkyflea

I have the sound blaster z. Which headphone are you guys pairing this sound card with that exactly manages to use the full capabilities without me stupidly spending excess money. I do some, lets say 50% music and gaming.

I hope to get some input from you guys, thank you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## funkyflea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funkyflea*
> 
> I have the sound blaster z. Which headphone are you guys pairing this sound card with that exactly manages to use the full capabilities without me stupidly spending excess money. I do some, lets say 50% music and gaming.
> 
> I hope to get some input from you guys, thank you.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Im using altec lansing mx6021 for my stereo. Will that work fine with the sound blaster z too? Is there a better speaker to use the capabilities of the sound card?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funkyflea*
> 
> I have the sound blaster z. Which headphone are you guys pairing this sound card with that exactly manages to use the full capabilities without me stupidly spending excess money. I do some, lets say 50% music and gaming.
> 
> I hope to get some input from you guys, thank you.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Define "stupidly excess".

To some, that's $200, to others, $2,000, to still others, $20,000.

What kinds of music do you listen to? What kinds of games? Do you want open or closed? Lots of bass, quality of bass, lack of bass?


----------



## benben84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zer0sum*
> 
> Let me throw a bit of a curve ball in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did a huge search a while ago and ended up with a pair of Cambridge S30's
> They are cheap and have plenty of WAF


WAF is not a factor in the looks department, only price haha. Thanks for the suggestion, I looked at them and they definitely are cheap enough, although a bit small, which is only an issue in my head







.

I'm actually thinking of putting together a DIY kit and creating my own enclosures, something similar to Swans M3+. I love those speakers but cannot afford them ;(.


----------



## funkyflea

I mean i do not want to buy a $200s headphone when a $100s will deliver what the sound card has to offer. Bottleneck? Erm am i making any sense?

For music, i do listen to rock, pop, house. I do like some bass, nothing too extreme.having too much bass is quite bad for gaming as the mid tones wont sound as good? Thats what i read from the users discussing about it, i think.

I would prefer those close type headphone.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bumblebee1980

give the Creative Aurvana Live a try.


----------



## funkyflea

@ bumblebee1980

Is that for me? It is on sale in creative.sg webby. Usual price $249, now selling at $129.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funkyflea*
> 
> @ bumblebee1980
> 
> Is that for me? It is on sale in creative.sg webby. Usual price $249, now selling at $129.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Ouch.

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364330546&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live

Although, exchange rates being what they are, that may actually be the same price.


----------



## funkyflea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *funkyflea*
> 
> @ bumblebee1980
> 
> Is that for me? It is on sale in creative.sg webby. Usual price $249, now selling at $129.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364330546&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live
> 
> Although, exchange rates being what they are, that may actually be the same price.
Click to expand...

Omg, singapore is selling those really expensive. Ive read some reviews on it, mix feelings, but im interested in it.This is considered entry level headphone?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## liquidzoo

They are essentially a Denon 1k1 (I think that's the number). They're a really good headphone, especially at that price point.

Review


----------



## bumblebee1980

yes. it's a rebranded Denon AH-D1001 made by Fostex. it's my favourite headphone under $100. it's got some bass.


----------



## funkyflea

Ohh icic, thanks guys.

If i were to get a headphone with a detachable mic? Which would you guys suggest to pair with my sound card?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funkyflea*
> 
> Ohh icic, thanks guys.
> 
> If i were to get a headphone with a detachable mic? Which would you guys suggest to pair with my sound card?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Antlion Modmic

http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## funkyflea

Wooo, thank you!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bumblebee1980

you're welcome









whatever it cost to import it.. it's worth it

it's a bendable condenser microphone (most microphones on headsets are dynamic) with a magnetic clasp. the clasp should adhere to any plastic or metal. unique product.


----------



## LessThanImpress

I'm looking into buying a headset but I don't know which one is best.

Needs to be...

Very comfortable for long hours. (I have somewhat large ears)
Awesome bass, closed-style that don't leak sound.
Good microphone.
No need for an amp.
I cant use a headphone/microphone combo because my keyboard is too loud and everyone I talk with complains about it.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic make pretty good headsets.


----------



## bumblebee1980

bass in a closed back headphone is really hard to do. the bass on my Denon AH-D5000 could be tighter and it's a $699 headphone.

take a look at the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008O510Y8/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0P0BRTTE4ZCMFM5PXADB&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## pandatomor

Heya

Ima trying to get the much suggested headphone,
- Audio Technica ATH-AD700

I live in Europe / The Netherlands
Kinda hard to order one over here, I've been searching in some shops but haven't found a option to buy it.

Maybe anyone in Europe or even in The Netherlands experienced the same problem, and could help me?.

Thank you in advance


----------



## hatrix216

May I recommend adding a DIY subwoofer section ? One for those who want to build their own box and really go all out on bass. These will in general be louder than any active subwoofer brands already recommended. Most subs are made to order (custom options you can choose, so most have build times).

I've been into car audio for years and know of the best brands. As I said, these would be considered "DIY" because you would have to make a box for them (to recommended specs), or buy a prefab box (NOT recommended unless its from DC creations or Khaotic Enclosures).

Brands of extremely high quality subwoofers:

Fi Car Audio (I personally run an SSD 18" in my car on 1200 watts @ 1 ohm)
SSA Audio
Sundown Audio (I own a E8v3 for use in my room)
Incriminator Audio
Ascendant Audio
Digital Designs Audio

All of these brands have different classes of woofers to suit ones needs. SQ, SPL, or both. My SSD 18" back when it was bought 5 years or so ago was a little over $300 with shipping. My Sundown E8v3 was $95 shipped. I also have a friends Sundown Audio Zv.2 18" sitting in my room, a $500 subwoofer.

These are serious brands of subwoofers, especially their higher priced subs. They are LOUD when put in proper enclosures with correct power.

Do note, since these are meant for car audio, it's assumed you will be running these off of car amplifiers. It's plenty possible to use a plate amp, I did it for a while with my 18" in my room. However, chances are it's going to be underpowered, as you aren't going to find a plate amp that puts out 800 watts for cheap, let alone one that's rated under 4 ohms.

Don't disregard these because they are car audio, they are fully capable of being run in a home setup. You just need to know what you're doing


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> May I recommend adding a DIY subwoofer section ? One for those who want to build their own box and really go all out on bass. These will in general be louder than any active subwoofer brands already recommended. Most subs are made to order (custom options you can choose, so most have build times).
> 
> I've been into car audio for years and know of the best brands. As I said, these would be considered "DIY" because you would have to make a box for them (to recommended specs), or buy a prefab box (NOT recommended unless its from DC creations or Khaotic Enclosures).
> 
> Brands of extremely high quality subwoofers:
> 
> Fi Car Audio (I personally run an SSD 18" in my car on 1200 watts @ 1 ohm)
> SSA Audio
> Sundown Audio (I own a E8v3 for use in my room)
> Incriminator Audio
> Ascendant Audio
> Digital Designs Audio
> 
> All of these brands have different classes of woofers to suit ones needs. SQ, SPL, or both. My SSD 18" back when it was bought 5 years or so ago was a little over $300 with shipping. My Sundown E8v3 was $95 shipped. I also have a friends Sundown Audio Zv.2 18" sitting in my room, a $500 subwoofer.
> 
> These are serious brands of subwoofers, especially their higher priced subs. They are LOUD when put in proper enclosures with correct power.
> 
> Do note, since these are meant for car audio, it's assumed you will be running these off of car amplifiers. It's plenty possible to use a plate amp, I did it for a while with my 18" in my room. However, chances are it's going to be underpowered, as you aren't going to find a plate amp that puts out 800 watts for cheap, let alone one that's rated under 4 ohms.
> 
> Don't disregard these because they are car audio, they are fully capable of being run in a home setup. You just need to know what you're doing


DIY Subwoofers aren't cheap and not many people here are willing to spend so much to have a good sub. While I have nothing against car subs, many of them don't too well for home use. The high Fs on some is a drawback and compensate with the cabinet gain on cars.

Plus with car subs you pay more for the same quality as a home theater sub driver. Then they have a lower nominal impedance which may or not be bad if you have an amp cable of driving it. As you stated.


----------



## KeyboardXpert

I have a choice between the AD700 or the PC360 or the PC350. Price is not an issue, but the 350 and 360 cost the same. Does the beautiful soundstage of the 360s get destroyed by the closed back of the 350? Because I often game when I need to avoid disturbing others. And also, would I, (being a novice audiophile) be able to notice the difference in gaming between the AD700 and the PC360? Because honestly 80 bucks is a small price for me to pay for convenience.

TL;DR:

I'm leaning towards the PC360 for gaming. If there is not too much of a difference between that and the PC350, I am buying the PC350 instead. If the AD700 is really a lot better than the PC360, I will buy that and use my webcam mic until the ModMic 4.0 comes out.


----------



## KeyboardXpert

Pure gaming only. Best performance, price is not an issue and should not be considered. Choices below are the only ones.

What should I get?

PC350 (preferred if identical or unnoticeably similar to the PC360)

or

PC360 (preferred if identical or unnoticeably similar to AD700)

or

AD700 (preferred if noticeably better than the PC360 or PC360)

?????


----------



## hatrix216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> DIY Subwoofers aren't cheap and not many people here are willing to spend so much to have a good sub. While I have nothing against car subs, many of them don't too well for home use. The high Fs on some is a drawback and compensate with the cabinet gain on cars.
> 
> Plus with car subs you pay more for the same quality as a home theater sub driver. Then they have a lower nominal impedance which may or not be bad if you have an amp cable of driving it. As you stated.


Yea of course, I understand your points. I know they aren't cheap. The first box I built for my 18" was over $100 in MDF.

I know they aren't particularly meant for use in a room, but with the right box and proper placement, it can sound much better than the premade HT subs.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KeyboardXpert*
> 
> Pure gaming only. Best performance, price is not an issue and should not be considered. Choices below are the only ones.
> 
> What should I get?
> 
> PC350 (preferred if identical or unnoticeably similar to the PC360)
> 
> or
> 
> PC360 (preferred if identical or unnoticeably similar to AD700)
> 
> or
> 
> AD700 (preferred if noticeably better than the PC360 or PC360)
> 
> ?????


based off the conditions of your choices, the PC360.


----------



## KeyboardXpert

Yeah sorry. The PC360 rose sharply in price. I am now getting the AD700 with a Nessie and Titanium HD for audio.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Anyone want to chance their luck for some earphones (Redgiant A04's):
http://www.overclock.net/t/1380565/redgiant-a04-earphones-enter-to-win

Freebie from me.
Good luck


----------



## EPiiKK

HI I'm gonna go pick up a new mic and soundcard today hopefully, so should i go for Asus Xonar DGX or DSX? I don't know the difference. Is the DSX worth extra 15€?

Also which one of these should i get for voip? (ts, skype etc)
#1 or #2


----------



## liquidzoo

Do you need a headphone amp?

The DGX has one, the DSX does not.

However, the DSX is 7.1 where the DGX is 5.1.

I suppose it depends on what features you really need.


----------



## EPiiKK

I mostly game, and i don't need headphone amp.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> HI I'm gonna go pick up a new mic and soundcard today hopefully, so should i go for Asus Xonar DGX or DSX? I don't know the difference. Is the DSX worth extra 15€?
> 
> Also which one of these should i get for voip? (ts, skype etc)
> #1 or #2


I would suggest the logitech USB mic - avoids any problems via 3.5mm


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I would suggest the logitech USB mic - avoids any problems via 3.5mm


I've heard that USB audio devices pass the soundcard?
I'm not an expert on this


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> I've heard that USB audio devices pass the soundcard?
> I'm not an expert on this


Neither am I tbh - but when I had a 3.5mm mic, it was having problems via the soundcard.
When I got the usb mic I had no problems.
End of the day - you aren't a professional recording audio - so be it through usb or 3.5mm you shouldn't care.
I do a lot of youtube commentaries and do it via that usb mic.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

I'm trying to buy a set of headphones for under $150.

I want to use this mainly for gaming (battlefield 3 80% of the time). I would also like for this to perform well in the music area as well, as I like to listen to Hans Zimmer, Jesper Kyd, etc.

I was leaning towards the Ultrasone pro 550. I also saw that the Ultrasone HFi 780 were just $10 more.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I would buy the seinheiser HD 558, but its currently out of my price range. If I can catch it on sale within a month, I'll buy it.

Also, I would prefer to have an open set since I need to be able to hear whats going on around me (family).

Thank you.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Sennheisers are a sound choice. Excellent all rounders


----------



## Shimme

Hey just dropping a huge "thank you" to everyone who worked to put this thread together, this is what actually lead me to my first "enthusiast" headphones (Grados SR80i







) and I couldn't be happier with my choice. They've really improved my experience listening to music, and wouldn't trade them for the world! ... Okay, maybe I would trade them for even nicer Grados









Thanks everyone!


----------



## liquidzoo

Great choice. I almost bought those when I was testing Grados, but I went with the 225i instead. Very happy with them.

Now I just have to sell/trade my AKGs


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Hello everyone. I'll be buying a Sennheiser HD 558 and I also want to invest in a soundcard. I have two options: xonar dx and dgx. I'll mostly be using this for gaming on battlefield 3 and 4. Which card will provide the best immersion?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Hello everyone. I'll be buying a Sennheiser HD 558 and I also want to invest in a soundcard. I have two options: xonar dx and dgx. I'll mostly be using this for gaming on battlefield 3 and 4. Which card will provide the best immersion?


I would love to know a comparison between these two myself.
I think the DX is better as an overall soundcard - but WHY and can you HEAR the difference is what I want to know.


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Hello everyone. I'll be buying a Sennheiser HD 558 and I also want to invest in a soundcard. I have two options: xonar dx and dgx. I'll mostly be using this for gaming on battlefield 3 and 4. Which card will provide the best immersion?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I would love to know a comparison between these two myself.
> I think the DX is better as an overall soundcard - but WHY and can you HEAR the difference is what I want to know.


Depends on what you need. For the HD558s you probably don't need an amp, so that's good.

Major differences between the 2 cards:

DGX: 5.1 card with a fairly decent headphone amp. Not the best amp, but it definitely works as an entry level amp. 24bit/96KHz sampling

DX: 7.1 card with no amp, though it is capable of 24bit/192KHz sampling.

I'm not sure of the differences in the chips between the 2 cards, if any.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Hello everyone. I'll be buying a Sennheiser HD 558 and I also want to invest in a soundcard. I have two options: xonar dx and dgx. I'll mostly be using this for gaming on battlefield 3 and 4. Which card will provide the best immersion?


DGX uses a lower-end CMI 8766 while the DX uses a CMI 8788 (re-branded to Asus AV100).
The DX do have a better DAC than the DGX though, though hearing the difference on a HD 558 might be a little bit more of a subjective fact and not objective.

Lower THD on the DX as well, which has always been a staple in the DX specs.

The only thing I don't like about the DX? No heapdhone amp. While the HD558 doesn't need an amp to sound good, the problem is that the DX output impedence is at something stupid like >33ohms. That's more than half of what the HD558's rated impedence is at.
What this means is that in heavy fluctuations of the low or high frequency, you might be able to pick up distortion. It's not constant but for me personally, I notice it.

While overall the DX is a better card than the DGX, the DGX is a card better suited to a HD558. Unless you're planning to pick up low output impedence amp later on, go with the DGX.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

So between the dgx and dx, which would provide the best surround sound for headphones. From what in understand, the dx has Dolby digital live whereas the dgx doesn't. I would like the most immersion in the battlefield 3.

also, another card I was looking at was the Creative SB Recon3D. Would this be better for gaming?


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> So between the dgx and dx, which would provide the best surround sound for headphones. From what in understand, the dx has Dolby digital live whereas the dgx doesn't. I would like the most immersion in the battlefield 3.
> 
> also, another card I was looking at was the Creative SB Recon3D. Would this be better for gaming?


No.

Stay away from the Recon3D cards. If you want one, get a Sound Blaster Z. It's similar to the Recon3D, but it's been upgraded.

The DGX has Dolby Headphone (as does the DX), though the DX does have a lot of Dolby enhancements (Dolby Digital Live, Dolby Virtual Speaker, Dolby ProLogic II) that might only be good for speakers.

For headphones alone, I agree with the poster above. Get the DGX.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Great post Ben


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Thanks a lot everyone!! I will buy the Xonar DGX

also, between the Sennheiser 558 and the Ultrasone Pro 750, which would be better for gaming?


----------



## RussianC

Hey guys I just have a question, what do you guys think of this setup.

Card
Headset

What do you guys think? Main reason I went for that card is because of the Outside "Shield" or Shroud. For looks and protection.
Headset was a Guess based on feedback on Newegg. If there is a Cheaper/better variant I am very interested.

I really wanted the Shroud but after all the reviews, I see that's it's not worth it at all.

So I am now thinking of this Card


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Audio Technica AT2020

Says you love this microphone, I was wondering what kind of Stand do you have for it. I am looking for something that mounts to the wall or desk. Any suggestions?


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianC*
> 
> Hey guys I just have a question, what do you guys think of this setup.
> 
> Card
> Headset
> 
> What do you guys think? Main reason I went for that card is because of the Outside "Shield" or Shroud. For looks and protection.
> Headset was a Guess based on feedback on Newegg. If there is a Cheaper/better variant I am very interested.
> 
> I really wanted the Shroud but after all the reviews, I see that's it's not worth it at all.
> 
> So I am now thinking of this Card


lol, just read a couple of posts above this one you just made. I asked the same exact question regarding the sound cards.


----------



## RussianC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> lol, just read a couple of posts above this one you just made. I asked the same exact question regarding the sound cards.


Please disregard the amount of ******ation I have posted into this thread.

PillarOfAutumn Thanks for pointing that out, and now I am 100% sure of what I am getting. +1


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> Do you need a headphone amp?
> 
> The DGX has one, the DSX does not.
> 
> However, the DSX is 7.1 where the DGX is 5.1.
> 
> I suppose it depends on what features you really need.


Well i don't really know what i need. Do i benefit from 7.1 over 5.1 in gaming?
What i do know is that i don't need the headphone amp with my creative aurvana live headphones.
I also need i mic but i don't think that's an issue with any of these cards?
I sometimes listen to music trough my speakers, but 90% of the time im using the headphones


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Well i don't really know what i need. Do i benefit from 7.1 over 5.1 in gaming?
> What i do know is that i don't need the headphone amp with my creative aurvana live headphones.
> I also need i mic but i don't think that's an issue with any of these cards?
> I sometimes listen to music trough my speakers, but 90% of the time im using the headphones


Well, since you only have 2 ears







, I would say go for the cheaper card (DGX). The CAL! don't need the amp, but it would be handy to have in case you upgrade to a pair that do.

I have the PCI version of that card and I really like it. It works very well.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Update!

I ended up buying the Ultrasone Pro 750 and the Creative Sound Blaster Z (the base model)

I hope to give them a try this weekend!!

Thank you guys (and girls) for helping me choose!

I'll write a first impressions the end of this week.


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MAD-DUKE*
> 
> Audio Technica AT2020
> 
> Says you love this microphone, I was wondering what kind of Stand do you have for it. I am looking for something that mounts to the wall or desk. Any suggestions?


I'll take anyone's suggestion on a stand/arm for a microphone


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MAD-DUKE*
> 
> I'll take anyone's suggestion on a stand/arm for a microphone


I think it depends on what type of stand you're looking for.

Simple desktop stands?

Something more complex?


----------



## MAD-DUKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MAD-DUKE*
> 
> I'll take anyone's suggestion on a stand/arm for a microphone
> 
> 
> 
> I think it depends on what type of stand you're looking for.
> 
> Simple desktop stands?
> 
> Something more complex?
Click to expand...

Thanks


----------



## younkster11

I would really like some input before I go out a buy. First off I play about 75% games and the rest videos, music, other. I was looking at getting the Asus Xonar Essence ST for a audio card, and the Sennheiser HD650 for headphones. The Xonar ST says it has a built in headphone amp that will support up to 600 ohms, and the HD650's run at 300 ohms.

Any thoughts? Think it would be a good idea or something else that might work just as well or better for the same amount of money?


----------



## liquidzoo

I can't comment on that particular pairing, but if you have the PCI-e slot available the STX is actually cheaper than the ST (last time I looked).


----------



## younkster11

Is there a noticeable difference between the two?


----------



## younkster11

Hate to double post but just had another question, will I need to get a separate amp to run the Sennheiser HD 650's with the Xonar st/stx? or will the built in amp be enough?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *younkster11*
> 
> Hate to double post but just had another question, will I need to get a separate amp to run the Sennheiser HD 650's with the Xonar st/stx? or will the built in amp be enough?


You might not get enough volume. The HD 650s take quite a bit to reach sufficient volume. I'd give it a try first.

The HD 650s aren't the best for gaming (I prefer my W1000X, maybe even my A900X), but they're good all-rounders and easy to listen to.


----------



## liquidzoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *younkster11*
> 
> Is there a noticeable difference between the two?


One's PCI (ST), one's PCI-e (STX).

That's the only difference between the cards.

ASUS does that with their cards. They have a PCI version, and a PCI-e version. For whatever reason, the PCI-e version ends in X


----------



## younkster11

Thanks for the answers. I think I will go with the STX card, and about the headphones any opinion on the Beyerdynamic DT 880?


----------



## liquidzoo

I have the DT770, but I have heard that the DT880 is the most analytical of the bunch. The DT770 has recessed mids and the DT990 has more recessed mids. In comparison, the DT880 is supposed to have a more flat frequency curve.

That is compared to the 3 Beyerdynamic DTs. When comparing it to others (Sennheiser HD650, for example) the mids are still recessed a bit.

Review


----------



## younkster11

Thanks for the response and information, since Im just getting into the audio part of my computer i really want something i can enjoy and not be cheap with


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> One's PCI (ST), one's PCI-e (STX).
> 
> That's the only difference between the cards.
> 
> ASUS does that with their cards. They have a PCI version, and a PCI-e version. For whatever reason, the PCI-e version ends in X


Just wondering, is there any difference between the two interfaces? I doubt a soundcard benefits from more bandwidth


----------



## liquidzoo

PCI is older and being phased out (mostly on Intel based boards right now, but AMD will likely follow). I don't know enough about the spec to say what the bandwidth difference is between PCI and PCI-e x1.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> PCI is older and being phased out (mostly on Intel based boards right now, but AMD will likely follow). I don't know enough about the spec to say what the bandwidth difference is between PCI and PCI-e x1.


I have trained you well my young padawan


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liquidzoo*
> 
> PCI is older and being phased out (mostly on Intel based boards right now, but AMD will likely follow). I don't know enough about the spec to say what the bandwidth difference is between PCI and PCI-e x1.


PCI is 266MB/s while PCIe-1x v1 is 250MB/s. V3 is about 1GB/s.

For 2 channel audio the interface doesn't matter. Even USB1.1 is enough. And USB 2.0, PCI, PCIe 1x is more than enough to satisfy multichannel audio. An uncompressed 32 bit 384kHz file of 8 channels is 12MB/s. That would require some serious processing power on the DAC though.


----------



## dioxholster

yeah i waited for microlab solo 6c to come back in stock, its not happening been like months. would the m-audio av 40 or Behringer MS-40 be a good alternative? they are more expensive from the microlab about $70 more but if they are good i can justify it.


----------



## AOSx182

Great guide. I own the maudio bx5a active monitors. No sub, but great for budget mixing at home!


----------



## logicPwn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Sup guys.
> 
> I was given a pair JVC RX900s
> 
> Should they be amp'd from my PC?
> 
> IIRC you look at Input Impedance for this? 64 ohms.


While I don't know from experience or what source your using it's really easy to tell. If you find yourself turning it up really high to get decent listening levels then you should amp it.


----------



## dioxholster

if anyone tried these which do you think is the best out of these?:

m-audio AV 40
behringer ms40
Samson Mediaone 4a
Aktimate Micro
Alesis 520 USB desktop speakers


----------



## exzacklyright

Question: Does the sticky / OP still get updated?

Question 2: What are the most comfortable headphones that ocn recommends? (I have the AD700).


----------



## longroadtrip

OP was last updated in January...Simca updates regularly as needed.

As for the headphones, that really is a personal question. What I find comfortable, you may not...it also depends on what you are looking for...what don't you like about the AD700s?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exzacklyright*
> 
> Question: Does the sticky / OP still get updated?
> 
> Question 2: What are the most comfortable headphones that ocn recommends? (I have the AD700).


Stax lambda signature headphones are THE most comfortable headphones ever. The catch is they are super rare, and cost about 500 bucks plus you would still need a special amp that is another 300-2000 bucks.

Audio technica headphones are my personal runner up for comfort, so IDK how to help you


----------



## exzacklyright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> OP was last updated in January...Simca updates regularly as needed.
> 
> As for the headphones, that really is a personal question. What I find comfortable, you may not...it also depends on what you are looking for...what don't you like about the AD700s?


I guess I just wish the padding was a bit more and they used more of the velvet material like in these:


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Mod them then.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longroadtrip*
> 
> OP was last updated in January...*Simca updates regularly as needed.*
> 
> As for the headphones, that really is a personal question. What I find comfortable, you may not...it also depends on what you are looking for...what don't you like about the AD700s?


Have you by any chance read her user title?


----------



## dioxholster

anyone seen reviews for NEKKST K5 ?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I don't think the op is on ocn anymore and more so was mainly subjective in adding things on there anyway...


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Have you by any chance read her user title?


Her last activity was 1 day and 2 hours ago. She is still floating around in here, it is just rare to find her.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Her last activity was 1 day and 2 hours ago. She is still floating around in here, it is just rare to find her.


Yeah, but it's not like she is going to post or update anything.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Quick question:

I have a SoundBlaster Z sound card on my PC. This weekend, since I'll have the whole house to myself, I want to bring my PC down to my home theater to play some Crysis 3. My home theater system has an Onkyo AVR. I'll be using an HDMI cable for the picture. Now, in order to get the best sound quality, should I be connecting my sound card to my AVR via optical cable, or should I just use the HDMI cable to carry the sound?

Thank you.


----------



## mikeaj

HDMI is newer and more robust; furthermore, it doesn't require compression for more than two-channel audio. (but practically that all may not make a difference)

btw I hope you don't mind the input lag on such a setup.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

So when using the avr, I dont even need to connect my soundcard to the avr? I can just go directly with the hdmi connecting my gpu to the avr?

would sound be improved in any way if I were to go soundcard to avr?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> So when using the avr, I dont even need to connect my soundcard to the avr? I can just go directly with the hdmi connecting my gpu to the avr?


Yes, it usually should work. Video cards can send audio over the HDMI signal. You just need to select or allow that to happen.
Quote:


> would sound be improved in any way if I were to go soundcard to avr?


No, the AVR is taking care of all the audio signal generation and amplification, which is unimportant compared to the speakers / layout / room anyway. It's just a matter of getting the data there (excepting minute details about possible small issues of degradation when using S/PDIF, depending on how the receiver handles the input).

You might be able to assuage the sound card's ego by using it, though.

edit: wait a sec, there could be issues with THX / Dolby / whatever formats I'm forgetting about, and the capabilities of whatever you're using to output those formats based on licensing etc. How many speakers are there, and what do games these days even support that, anyway? I don't really know much about HT audio formats and multichannel stuff.


----------



## Riou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Her last activity was 1 day and 2 hours ago. She is still floating around in here, it is just rare to find her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but it's not like she is going to post or update anything.
Click to expand...

I miss Simca.


----------



## Sebiale

So if Simca is gone, would we make a new thread or does someone else update the OP?


----------



## TFL Replica

That is up to chinesekiwi. If you have any suggestions or would like to volunteer, shoot him a PM.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I wouldn't mind...but after no one getting back to me for the headphone club. I'll wait for them to pm me.


----------



## ahnafakeef

I went over the first three posts and I have some questions.

i) How is the ASUS Xonar Essence STX's performance in games, movies and music with 5.1 speakers?
ii) Is it possible to get 5.1 output from the card? If so, does it require additional components (e.g. the H6 board) to get it?
iii) Would you rather recommend some other card instead of this card for getting the best performance in games, movies and music? It has to be in a similar budget range though.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Sebiale

Could anyone who has one confirm that the AntLion modmic would be able to attach to a Creative Aurvana Live?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> Could anyone who has one confirm that the AntLion modmic would be able to attach to a Creative Aurvana Live?


The bases attach to pretty much anything the adhesive can adhere to. So yeah it should fit.


----------



## HiCZoK

I decided to get Sound Blaster Z as a sound Card(or maybe some external dac/amp? or x-fi usb? ) ... Now I am looking for some headphones. aobut 100$ is all i would spare. I do not want microphone.

I game a plenty but in singleplayer. So i want good immersion, noise canceling and overall realistic sound. One thing - I like some bass, as I am also listening to some music. (mostly gaming soundtracks. I like it loud and bassy in music)
Lets say 70%gamer 30%music

as for the build, I want rather solid headphones and it would be perfect if cable was detachable, so I could install new when broken or replace with longer/shorter.

I've tried looking and there is (from 1st page guide)
Superlux 668B - but those are not closed.
Creative Aurvana live - great reviews as for sound. Seems to be perfect realistic sound + some good bass. Noise canceling seems not bad too... but the build quality.... and no reatachable cable...


----------



## Tiihokatti

Superlux HD660? They are closed and look like DT-770 ripoff (even the DT-770 velour pads fit on it...).


----------



## HiCZoK

not making it for me. Cable is not detachable.. and with that type of springy cable it might get crazy fast









And i like em cushions really soft and comfy. Those dont look soft and the build seems very plastic like


----------



## Domino

Anyone know any good, low cost, DAPs? I can't seem to find any of those Rocoo, Hippo?, Clip+, etc., players anymore. Not a fan of the iPod as I want something with an opamp at least capable of driving most mid-high range iems, let alone, great for low inexpedience headphones. fuze+ might be an option but I'm hearing bad things about it nor could find any detail reviews like the original clip+?

Needs to be durable too; I've gone through 2 Clips that have pooped out on me.

Edit: where can you order a hisoundaudio rocoo p? gezz...


----------



## deadscope

Looking for a pair of active PC Speakers for gaming, no-one in New Zealand is stocking the Microlab Solo series (specifically 6c) anymore so looking for alternatives - hit me.


----------



## ZombieJon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Anyone know any good, low cost, DAPs? I can't seem to find any of those Rocoo, Hippo?, Clip+, etc., players anymore. Not a fan of the iPod as I want something with an opamp at least capable of driving most mid-high range iems, let alone, great for low inexpedience headphones. fuze+ might be an option but I'm hearing bad things about it nor could find any detail reviews like the original clip+?
> 
> Needs to be durable too; I've gone through 2 Clips that have pooped out on me.
> 
> Edit: where can you order a hisoundaudio rocoo p? gezz...


Cowon an option?

You'll have to visit their webpage and look through it for local distributors though.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZombieJon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Anyone know any good, low cost, DAPs? I can't seem to find any of those Rocoo, Hippo?, Clip+, etc., players anymore. Not a fan of the iPod as I want something with an opamp at least capable of driving most mid-high range iems, let alone, great for low inexpedience headphones. fuze+ might be an option but I'm hearing bad things about it nor could find any detail reviews like the original clip+?
> 
> Needs to be durable too; I've gone through 2 Clips that have pooped out on me.
> 
> Edit: where can you order a hisoundaudio rocoo p? gezz...
> 
> 
> 
> Cowon an option?
> 
> You'll have to visit their webpage and look through it for local distributors though.
Click to expand...

looks like I'm getting the x7 then


----------



## HiCZoK

Headphones for use with Sound Blaster z (which I will order yet)
1. ~100$ max (audio technica is about 2x the price of US, here in Poland btw so keep in mind recommending anything like this)
2. Mostly gaming but not competitive. Immersive singpeplayer experience is what I like. + about 30% of music. mostly game soundtracks. I like some bass and vibrant sound overall I think.
3 As above, some bass, immersion. I am also really keen on high sound isolation. I am often playing at night and dont want to wake up my gf, so isolation is really a key here. Closed headphones
4. Right now onboard alc892 and Creative Tactic Sigma headphones. Going to get SB Z sound card.
5. Only in home. Pc and console. As above - I really want good comfort, soft over ear cushions and sound isolation.
6. Poland. use Ceneo.pl site for prices. Up to 400pln no more please.

edit: Detachable cable would be awesome to have but i know it's hard to come by in that price range, so mostly closed, comfort, bassy, good cable, around ear.


----------



## verbel

I would like some advice when you all get a chance. I am currently using my onboard sound and it's pretty crappy. I can hear hissing and things like that through my headphones and speakers. I want to put a sound card in there and hopefully improve things. I am mostly interesting in improved sound for gaming. I have kind of crappy speakers but I do my gaming through headphones so that's where I want to improve things. Right now I am using Sen HD555's and someday I would like to upgrade to something like Beyerdynamic's Dt880's. It's going to be a while before I do that though.

I have never bought a sound card before so it's all a bit perplexing. Right now I am looking at the Sound blaster ZX or the ZXR, but am unsure what would be best considering all I really care about is using them with headphones. I am open to pretty much anything though. The closer to 100$ the better but I want to keep it under 200$. I would appreciate any advice.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiCZoK*
> 
> Headphones for use with Sound Blaster z (which I will order yet)
> 1. ~100$ max (audio technica is about 2x the price of US, here in Poland btw so keep in mind recommending anything like this)
> 2. Mostly gaming but not competitive. Immersive singpeplayer experience is what I like. + about 30% of music. mostly game soundtracks. I like some bass and vibrant sound overall I think.
> 3 As above, some bass, immersion. I am also really keen on high sound isolation. I am often playing at night and dont want to wake up my gf, so isolation is really a key here. Closed headphones
> 4. Right now onboard alc892 and Creative Tactic Sigma headphones. Going to get SB Z sound card.
> 5. Only in home. Pc and console. As above - I really want good comfort, soft over ear cushions and sound isolation.
> 6. Poland. use Ceneo.pl site for prices. Up to 400pln no more please.
> 
> edit: Detachable cable would be awesome to have but i know it's hard to come by in that price range, so mostly closed, comfort, bassy, good cable, around ear.


Unless you're really interested in Creative's latest generation of DSP features and would use them (but if you don't have it now, how do you know what it sounds like for you?), I'd skip the SB Z so there's enough money for one of the Beyerdynamic DT 770 versions. (~600 pln) Aside from detachable cable, that sounds like exactly what you want.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verbel*
> 
> I would like some advice when you all get a chance. I am currently using my onboard sound and it's pretty crappy. I can hear hissing and things like that through my headphones and speakers. I want to put a sound card in there and hopefully improve things. I am mostly interesting in improved sound for gaming. I have kind of crappy speakers but I do my gaming through headphones so that's where I want to improve things. Right now I am using Sen HD555's and someday I would like to upgrade to something like Beyerdynamic's Dt880's. It's going to be a while before I do that though.
> 
> I have never bought a sound card before so it's all a bit perplexing. Right now I am looking at the Sound blaster ZX or the ZXR, but am unsure what would be best considering all I really care about is using them with headphones. I am open to pretty much anything though. The closer to 100$ the better but I want to keep it under 200$. I would appreciate any advice.


Seems like you just need to escape from your noisy onboard (have you tried the back panel too?).

Again, unless you have a specific love for whatever DSPs Creative has these days, I'd just pick up something cheaper. Xonar DG (PCI) or DGX (PCIe). Yeah, it's not close to $100, sorry.

If you want to drive one of the higher-impedance DT 880 or similar later on and to a high volume, you can upgrade then to say an external amp with input from the sound card. Or you could just upgrade the source then too. Not like a cheaper sound card is much of an investment. The biggest bump up in quality is off of onboard that's noisy (sometimes onboard is significantly better). You're way out in diminishing returns after that when looking at audio electronics.


----------



## HiCZoK

Those Bayerdynamics ate pretty awesome but i don't like plush cushions. Those get dirty very fast.

And why no sound blaster z ?
I would need to get something anyway. I only have on boardlike now so either sbz or xdg or some fiio ampdac is a must i think


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiCZoK*
> 
> Those Bayerdynamics ate pretty awesome but i don't like plush cushions. Those get dirty very fast.
> 
> And why no sound blaster z ?
> I would need to get something anyway. I only have on boardlike now so either sbz or xdg or some fiio ampdac is a must i think


I just mean to consider spending less on the sound card so you are not as restricted in choosing headphones (looking at total headphones + sound card cost). Spending about half the budget on the sound card is ripping yourself off for what most people need.

I don't think those velour pads get dirty that much. At least, not in a way that other pads don't as well. If you wear them after applying mud to the face, then maybe not. Anyway, even if they do get dirty, you can remove and wash them. Or get replacements:
http://www.thomann.de/pl/beyerdynamic_dt770_ohrpolster.htm

Well, there are plenty of other options too, but many of the other bassier closed headphones probably would not be considered as vibrant because of less treble. And most are not as comfortable. Some that might work are from non-European brands, which tend to be overpriced in Europe.


----------



## Tiihokatti

I really cant understand how you can get the velour pads dirty on normal use.
I have used my dt-770 daily for a year now, and I cant see any dirt/dust on them.
By daily use I mean that the PC with the headphones doesnt have any speakers.

If you use the headphones on mobile devices then I can understand if you worry about dirt.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> looks like I'm getting the x7 then


I am actually currently offering up a Clip+ as a freebie. Where do you live? I ask because I see Clip+ readily available on Amazon.com. Other nice DAP's are:

- Colorfly C3 (What I have and I wrote a review on it)
- Cowon C2
- Cowon iAudio 9
- HiFiMan HM-601
- Sony Walkman NWZE374
- Sony Walkman NWZE374


----------



## HiCZoK

I had once (cheap) creative headphones with those plush black cushions and they were terrible. gathering sweat, dirt, and so on









Those bayerdynamics dt-770 are growing on me tho. How is the cable? It is not detachable so it have to be solid.
What model to get ? 80, 250? M ? they look a bit different... from the looks it seems that normal dt-770 (non pro) and 770 M seem to have rubber/skin pads.
http://www.ceneo.pl/5925606
http://www.ceneo.pl/1147330
those are too expesnsive anyway









And what would I need to drive them ? If You are saying sbz is a waste, then what should I get ?


----------



## Tiihokatti

The DT-770 M is a special version that is meant for drummers in studios. It has very high isolation

80ohm version can be used with mobile devices but 250ohm should be too much for them.
250ohm might be nice with sbz, even though I hear that 80ohm should have little more bass.


----------



## Sebiale

The Antlion Modmic should come with better instructions for the placement of the clasp end for the mic itself--tried putting it on the wire before realizing that it's supposed to go on the boom end. Now I can feel that the wire is already scored, not a good start.


----------



## Chrome147

I just looked through the first page and I was just wondering, if I'm look for for a pair of headphones for movies and music, not for gaming I don't play video games, and I generally like some bass, would you recommend that I look in the "Bassier Headphones" section? If so the Denon D2000 is a little out of my budget, would a Denon D1100 be similar? Also, the Denon AH-D400 is advertised as having powerful bass, would it be better or worse of a choice than the D2000/1100? Thanks


----------



## LinkPro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chrome147*
> 
> I just looked through the first page and I was just wondering, if I'm look for for a pair of headphones for movies and music, not for gaming I don't play video games, and I generally like some bass, would you recommend that I look in the "Bassier Headphones" section? If so the Denon D2000 is a little out of my budget, would a Denon D1100 be similar? Also, the Denon AH-D400 is advertised as having powerful bass, would it be better or worse of a choice than the D2000/1100? Thanks


I don't think you can get the D2000 new anywhere now except at some ghetto hifi stores somewhere in the world where people can barely afford food. It has been discontinued for over a year now and stock ran dry long ago.

I wouldn't recommend the D400 at MSRP, but rather try and get the D600 instead - best bang for buck among the new Denon headphones. Haters and trolls swear by their D2000/5000/7000 but IMO the D600 is just as good as the D5000 if not slightly better. If you can find one at 300 and at most 400 bucks then go for it. Oh look, it's 310 on amazon right now. I might get it again, sold my D600 to get the D7100, should have kept both.


----------



## Chrome147

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> I don't think you can get the D2000 new anywhere now except at some ghetto hifi stores somewhere in the world where people can barely afford food. It has been discontinued for over a year now and stock ran dry long ago.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend the D400 at MSRP, but rather try and get the D600 instead - best bang for buck among the new Denon headphones. Haters and trolls swear by their D2000/5000/7000 but IMO the D600 is just as good as the D5000 if not slightly better. If you can find one at 300 and at most 400 bucks then go for it. Oh look, it's 310 on amazon right now. I might get it again, sold my D600 to get the D7100, should have kept both.


Thanks for the reply, but the D600 is even more expensive, I'm looking at around or under $200, would the D1100 be a good choice? They're a much more affordable price and have much large ear cups for comfort.


----------



## LinkPro

For $200 I'd recommend the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (80 ohm version). Or some Ulrasones in that price range, they are known to have solid bass.


----------



## Chrome147

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> For $200 I'd recommend the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (80 ohm version). Or some Ulrasones in that price range, they are known to have solid bass.


I understand that, but the reason I mainly focus on Denon (or Sennheiser) is that I prefer large over ear cups with leatherette pads, so that kinda narrows down a lot of choices for me, since most brands (even Sennheiser) use velvet materials as paddings and have small ear cups.

So that's why I'm looking at the Denon D1100, it fits most of my preferences (i.e. large cups, leatherette pads, good price), and I'm just wondering what the sound quality is like and if the bass too light, if some people here have tried it.


----------



## LinkPro

The 1100's ear cup isn't that big. I believe Beyer is coming out with a 32 ohm DT770 that will have leather pads, not sure how much it will cost up front though. I used to swear by leather pads like you, velour just feels weird to me. But now I've grown more tolerant to velour so it's no longer as big of an issue for me when looking at new headphones to buy.

You may want to look at the Audio Technica A900X as well. Maybe not as much bass quantity as the Denon but a very nice and balanced sounding headphone.


----------



## Chrome147

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> The 1100's ear cup isn't that big. I believe Beyer is coming out with a 32 ohm DT770 that will have leather pads, not sure how much it will cost up front though. I used to swear by leather pads like you, velour just feels weird to me. But now I've grown more tolerant to velour so it's no longer as big of an issue for me when looking at new headphones to buy.
> 
> You may want to look at the Audio Technica A900X as well. Maybe not as much bass quantity as the Denon but a very nice and balanced sounding headphone.


Thanks a lot for the info, I just can't stand velvet it's harder and headphones with velvet pads I've worn tend to be looser.

I'll look into the Beyer and Audio Technica ones, thanks again.


----------



## xutnubu

I guess when people refer to gaming headphones they mean headphones with nice directional feedback, used mostly in competitive FPS?

I'm looking for some general purpose headphones, for music, movies and games. I don't care if they don't provide me a competitive advantage, I would use them only for games with nice sound material, like a single player game, or just to hear the really well done BF3 audio.

I read that the Audio Technica's ATH-M50 are really good for music. Would these headphones suit my needs for the cinematic experiences too (movies and games)?

My budget is around $120.

I listen to a lot of genres: rock, metal, classical, trip-hop, etc.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xutnubu*
> 
> I guess when people refer to gaming headphones they mean headphones with nice directional feedback, used mostly in competitive FPS?
> 
> I'm looking for some general purpose headphones, for music, movies and games. I don't care if they don't provide me a competitive advantage, I would use them only for games with nice sound material, like a single player game, or just to hear the really well done BF3 audio.
> 
> I read that the Audio Technica's ATH-M50 are really good for music. Would these headphones suit my needs for the cinematic experiences too (movies and games)?
> 
> My budget is around $120.
> 
> I listen to a lot of genres: rock, metal, classical, trip-hop, etc.


M50 are considered the best bang of the buck by many for entry audiophile headphones. Due to being closed, they have pretty good bass response. Soundstage is a bit limited so it is not ideal for gaming where directional feedback is important. They are nice for music and movies and are pretty efficient. You could also consider the Audio-Technica AD700 as well, but they are sparkly and lack weight in bass.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Her last activity was 1 day and 2 hours ago. She is still floating around in here, it is just rare to find her.


Despite whatever this silly "active member" thing says, I have not been logged onto OCN in many months. I don't float around. I haven't looked at the audio section or off topic section since I left. If I ever happen to even cross this website, it was on accident from a goo.gl shortcut or simply to read a friends post.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> I miss Simca.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> So if Simca is gone, would we make a new thread or does someone else update the OP?


See comment below.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> That is up to chinesekiwi. If you have any suggestions or would like to volunteer, shoot him a PM.


Yeah, no. No one's modifying this thread short of myself and Kiwi.

That said, I did make it a point to read all the posts since I had left in this thread. I was pretty sure I was going to leave OCN permanently with no problems looking back and for sure I did that for months. Unfortunately for all those that have IMed me, there were simply too many to get back to. Thank you for your concern.

That said, I'll just stick my head around the audio section and self ban myself from other sections of this website.

How is everyone? Had a minor problem with my HE-500s that I ended up fixing not too long ago. I have a pending transaction on a pair of HD650s. I don't know why I'm buying them really, but they're at a good price and I like having spare headphones, I suppose.

Read someone's hilarious post on Head-fi stating that "Simca talked crap about Mad Lust Envy" and they straightened me out. Lmao. If talking crap about someone means I disagree with their opinions then I guess I talked crap.







But what really made me giggle was how that badass "straightened me out." Yeah right, did they stop by and say "that's not nice simca u suxx!" I'm really straightened out.









If anyone needs anything as far as audio advice is concerned, I didn't completely give up on my love of audio simply cuz I stopped posting on OCN. I've tried a few headphones since I've been gone and while I don't see many headphones worth adding since I last updated, I may modify OP slightly here or there..


----------



## nvidiaftw12




----------



## xutnubu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xutnubu*
> 
> I guess when people refer to gaming headphones they mean headphones with nice directional feedback, used mostly in competitive FPS?
> 
> I'm looking for some general purpose headphones, for music, movies and games. I don't care if they don't provide me a competitive advantage, I would use them only for games with nice sound material, like a single player game, or just to hear the really well done BF3 audio.
> 
> I read that the Audio Technica's ATH-M50 are really good for music. Would these headphones suit my needs for the cinematic experiences too (movies and games)?
> 
> My budget is around $120.
> 
> I listen to a lot of genres: rock, metal, classical, trip-hop, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> M50 are considered the best bang of the buck by many for entry audiophile headphones. Due to being closed, they have pretty good bass response. Soundstage is a bit limited so it is not ideal for gaming where directional feedback is important. They are nice for music and movies and are pretty efficient. You could also consider the Audio-Technica AD700 as well, but they are sparkly and lack weight in bass.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the AD700 are a bit sparkly for me.

It also seems that the M50s are around $160, I heard they went as low as $100 one time. Guess I'll have to wait for a good deal to get them.


----------



## Simca

Looking back on the AD700s. It wasn't the highs that were sparkly, it was the mids. After hearing many other headphones, the highs were actually enjoyable with no sharp painful sounds or sibilance.


----------



## caenlen

These Monoprice headphones I recently bought direct from Monoprice/through Ebay sound better than my Sennhesier HD 598's and AD700's... its amazing how cheap they are... http://www.ebay.com/itm/370831418217?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

anyways yeah... I love them <3


----------



## Simca

Those are very different from the other headphones. I take it you enjoy the bass from them more? Otherwise, the other two are by far better sounding. Hard to compare a 30 dollar headphone to one 3-6x more expensive.


----------



## exyia

I'm a bit disappointed in the AD700X comfort - or lack of it. The wings simply don't work on my head, even with the rubber band mod (that seems popular since lots don't like how the AD700 don't fit apparently)

almost at the point of searching for something else - the audio performance is definitely impressive (though this is my first non-USB, sound-card powered headphone)


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> I'm a bit disappointed in the AD700X comfort - or lack of it. The wings simply don't work on my head, even with the rubber band mod (that seems popular since lots don't like how the AD700 don't fit apparently)
> 
> almost at the point of searching for something else - the audio performance is definitely impressive (though this is my first non-USB, sound-card powered headphone)


Consider new headphones as nothing will help make the design better short of a new headphone.


----------



## eliongater

What would be a good setup for me?

I like the look of the DT 880 Pro 250ohm
I use my PC for 90% gaming
I would prefer to spend $400-500 max USD. It must be able to get shipped internationally
My current hardware

Turtle Beach PX11 currently using this
Philips SBC HP200
Luxman RX-103
AKG k26p?
Maximus V gene motherboard for sound
Some Magnat speakers
I'm in New Zealand


----------



## ChaosAD

Atm i use for both flacs and games an xfi titanium and actimate minis (see sig). I dont use headphones and i will never do. I was thinking to change my sound card for an external dac. My budget is up to 200-250 euros. Do you think its worth it? Will i gain any better sound? Make some suggestions if you do.


----------



## LinkPro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliongater*
> 
> What would be a good setup for me?
> 
> I like the look of the DT 880 Pro 250ohm
> I use my PC for 90% gaming
> I would prefer to spend $400-500 max USD. It must be able to get shipped internationally
> My current hardware
> 
> Turtle Beach PX11 currently using this
> Philips SBC HP200
> Luxman RX-103
> AKG k26p?
> Maximus V gene motherboard for sound
> Some Magnat speakers
> I'm in New Zealand


The DT880 is a good choice, go for it. You're in NZ so maybe start looking at AUS dealers first.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosAD*
> 
> Atm i use for both flacs and games an xfi titanium and actimate minis (see sig). I dont use headphones and i will never do. I was thinking to change my sound card for an external dac. My budget is up to 200-250 euros. Do you think its worth it? Will i gain any better sound? Make some suggestions if you do.


Something like ODAC or HRT Music Streamer series will be a sure improvement over the Fatality.


----------



## OffLimit

Hi Simca,

I already buy razer Tiamat 7.1.
Please dont mad at me for my ignorance, im definitely not an audiophile. I never have a headphones before, i usually just play out of monitor speaker.

The thing i want to ask, is it going to make difference for audio positioning to buy another sound card (right now onboard) if i already buy Tiamat ?
I read Tiamat already have their own drivers to emmulate sound stage for FPS gaming ?
Is it going to make a change to buy another sound card ? If yes, what kind of soundcard ?
Is 7.1 sound card makes different than 2.1 soundcard ?

1.Budget USD 100~150
2.Not listen to music what so ever ...
3.For FPS gaming ...
4.Already have Tiamat, cant sell them back, its already cost me quite a fortune, not live in US, there is no policy for returning items here ...
5.Use on PC, use for gaming exclusively ...
6.In Indonesia, price here twice you guys have in US, not so many option either ...
Some of the option : ONKYO Wavio SE200 LTD, CREATIVE X-F1 Titanium HD, CREATIVE Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, CREATIVE Sound Blaster Recon 3D PCIe, CREATIVE Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCIe

Sorry for lack of grammar, English is not my native language.
Thanks before !


----------



## sugiik

@OffLimit
-first of all it's wrong move to buy tiamat

-best emulation for sorround and sounding especially for gaming, creative's/and creative's chipset still the best for soundcard(my suggestion :Z series are the choice right now)
for : ONKYO Wavio SE200 LTD is for audiophile soundcard, not suite for multimedia pc/bad on movies and gaming, so avoid it if you're not audiophile. (and even for audiophile it's best to get a DAC) not worthed :audiophile + multimedia speaker

best solution in my opinion :
1.sell your tiamat read page 1 again ^^(or ask suggestion here ^^)

you can get other cheap headphone : superlux's for temporary it's cheap (easy to get in Indonesia)
2.stick to your tiamat, and if you want to get upgrade, back to page 1 (soundcard + headphone + mic)

and for your question about soundcard :
-7.1's for gaming currently on titanium fatality i think , i'll suggest you avoid it(or get 2nd handed for real cheap) , because it's on Z series price range and Z series best them out.
-don't go onkyo's soundcard they're not good beside music.
-the difference between 2.1 5.1 and 7.1 soundcard's is for number of output channel/direction.
-i don't know about tiamat, even it's got the emulation or soundcard already, i believe,best sorround emulation for gaming, is creative's
and sound quality better on soundcard than onboard. so yes creative's emulation vs razer's there are going to be difference.

I live in same country as you, i know price often higher in our country ^^


----------



## OffLimit

1. Can we get creative Z series in Jakarta ?

2. Is Z series going to improve sound stage / sound positioning if combine with a Tiamat ?

3. If number 2 is a yes, is the difference will be enough for someone like me to notice it ?

4. Is choosing between 2.1 5.1 or 7.1 sound card going to make a difference for sound stage / sound positioning using a headphone (in this case Tiamat) ?

5. I notice windows 7 have their own option for audio is it stereo, quadphonic, 5.1 or 7.1 which option is best for headphone sound stage ?

Remember, the only purpose will be just sound stage with a headphone, in this case is a Tiamat.
I really cant tell the audio quality between an ipod earphones or a 1 million dollar headphones.
With a Tiamat and a on board sound card, i tentatively can get around 30 degree positioning, is buying dedicated sound card going to improve this ?

Thnx !


----------



## exyia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Consider new headphones as nothing will help make the design better short of a new headphone.


should be getting my new Ultrasone 550's today to replace my AD700x! (sold the AD700x on ebay)

really hoping it matches in quality and better in comfort! I did get tired of the tin-can quality of gunshots on the AD700's


----------



## sugiik

@offlimit
1. yeap, got my ZxR locally ($270 price tag >.<)
2. yeap for the SQ(sound quality) but for positioning i guess how much depend's on the game, if the games anything below 8ch, emulated to 8ch(7.1) it will be better i believe
3. for positioning i dunno, for SQ u gonna notice it ^^
4. for tiamat yes, native 7.1 require the analog out from soundcard, wich 2 of your tiamat cables not gonna plugged on 5.1 /anything below 7.1 soundcard, so you gonna miss some channel/directional= your tiamat wasted, or it's a waste if you insist getting non 7.1 soundcard.
5. it's not for "better sound stage" but for matching number of speakers/channel/analog output from your soundcard/pc

soundcard can improve, but again depend on the source/games
added opinion :
- stay just on your tiamat right now, and sell it later ^^
- if you insist on getting soundcard, my opinion , you got to trade/sell your tiamat,
x-fi titanium series are the choice for 7.1 output, wich i don't really recommend it(except you can get your hands on cheap 2nd hand), since recent release Z series got better improvement.
- if you insist on "directional" after you sell your tiamat, roccat's 5.1 headset is the choice.on par with Z series.

============================================================================================================================================
@exya
ultrasone's u just love it or hate it








for comfort i don't know since it's closed


----------



## Heimsgard

So in a couple months I am planning on buying some new headphones. Right now I am using JVC RX-700s with a Xonar Dx(Will still be using the DX). My budget is around $150 USD. I want a step up from my RX-700s and to get something better. I would use them 40% of the time for music which I mainly listen to many different types of Metal and then 60% of gaming which I play a wide variety of games. Thanks for the help!


----------



## musicPC

@Heimsgard, just curious. Have you done any mod to your RX700's?


----------



## Heimsgard

Yes did the foam mod, dampening mod and felt removal.


----------



## OffLimit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugiik*
> 
> @offlimit
> 1. yeap, got my ZxR locally ($270 price tag >.<)
> 2. yeap for the SQ(sound quality) but for positioning i guess how much depend's on the game, if the games anything below 8ch, emulated to 8ch(7.1) it will be better i believe
> 3. for positioning i dunno, for SQ u gonna notice it ^^
> 4. for tiamat yes, native 7.1 require the analog out from soundcard, wich 2 of your tiamat cables not gonna plugged on 5.1 /anything below 7.1 soundcard, so you gonna miss some channel/directional= your tiamat wasted, or it's a waste if you insist getting non 7.1 soundcard.
> 5. it's not for "better sound stage" but for matching number of speakers/channel/analog output from your soundcard/pc
> 
> soundcard can improve, but again depend on the source/games
> added opinion :
> - stay just on your tiamat right now, and sell it later ^^
> - if you insist on getting soundcard, my opinion , you got to trade/sell your tiamat,
> x-fi titanium series are the choice for 7.1 output, wich i don't really recommend it(except you can get your hands on cheap 2nd hand), since recent release Z series got better improvement.
> - if you insist on "directional" after you sell your tiamat, roccat's 5.1 headset is the choice.on par with Z series.
> 
> ============================================================================================================================================
> @exya
> ultrasone's u just love it or hate it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for comfort i don't know since it's closed


Where did you buy the zxr ?
Is it going to change the SQ even for monitor speaker ? im using samsung 950 series ...

Seeing how you insisting, ok i will sell it, how much u wanna buy









I'm playing the Planetside 2, bioshock, crysis, usual stuff ...
Thnx for the advice ...


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heimsgard*
> 
> Yes did the foam mod, dampening mod and felt removal.


Try the Pro550. It will be a nice step up from your JVC in my opinion.


----------



## Heimsgard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *musicPC*
> 
> Try the Pro550. It will be a nice step up from your JVC in my opinion.


Yeah those are what I was looking at just wanted some input to see what other people thought I should get.


----------



## Simca

Zat is vut you shud get. Gud German Hedfonez!


----------



## ZBoneCapone

Hey all, I am wanting a nice set of cans to use for listening to music and gaming as well. I've settled on the AKG K702 and would like to know what all of you smart people thing would be a good DAC and/or amp combo for this set. Also, if you can think of a better set (for equal or lesser $) than please feel free to share


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZBoneCapone*
> 
> Hey all, I am wanting a nice set of cans to use for listening to music and gaming as well. I've settled on the AKG K702 and would like to know what all of you smart people thing would be a good DAC and/or amp combo for this set. Also, if you can think of a better set (for equal or lesser $) than please feel free to share


How much are you willing to spend? As for headphones, what type of music do you listen to?


----------



## ZBoneCapone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> How much are you willing to spend? As for headphones, what type of music do you listen to?


I would be willing to spend a reasonable amount...$100-150, probably. Honestly I am very new to the high end audio area, so I am completely open to recommendations about anything. I listen to every kind of music. Country, rock and roll, metal, dubstep, hip-hop. You name it, I've got it on my iTunes.


----------



## Riou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> I miss Simca.
Click to expand...


----------



## mugenrain

Hello, i'm a newbie in audio. I want to buy a $100 - $200 price range Sound Card, can u guys suggest me one?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mugenrain*
> 
> Hello, i'm a newbie in audio. I want to buy a $100 - $200 price range Sound Card, can u guys suggest me one?


Gaming oriented or Multimedia oriented?


----------



## Tiihokatti

And headphone or speaker oriented?
And more importantly, which headphones/speakers do you have/are going to buy?


----------



## mugenrain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Gaming oriented or Multimedia oriented?


Multimedia oriented
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> And headphone or speaker oriented?
> And more importantly, which headphones/speakers do you have/are going to buy?


Speaker oriented. Currently i have no good speakers or headphones, can you also suggest me a speakers?

Thank you for your response


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mugenrain*
> 
> Multimedia oriented
> Speaker oriented. Currently i have no good speaker or headphones, can you also suggest me a speaker?
> 
> Thank you for your response


Xonar DGX, cheap card that has pretty good sound for headphones (and speakers). DH-surround support.
Xonar DX, has better DAC/parts than DGX and aimed more for speakers. DDL and DH-surround support.
SBZ, good for headphones and speakers. DDL, DTS and SBX-surround support. Also has a real headphone amplifier, what DGX has isn't a "real" hp-amplifier.

The more expensive cards really need a good set of speakers/headphones to get anything new out of them. Like my B3031A speakers and DT-770 headphones.


----------



## mugenrain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Xonar DGX, cheap card that has pretty good sound for headphones (and speakers). DH-surround support.
> Xonar DX, has better DAC/parts than DGX and aimed more for speakers. DDL and DH-surround support.
> SBZ, good for headphones and speakers. DDL, DTS and SBX-surround support. Also has a real headphone amplifier, what DGX has isn't a "real" hp-amplifier.
> 
> The more expensive cards really need a good set of speakers/headphones to get anything new out of them. Like my B3031A speakers and DT-770 headphones.


Thank you for your response.

My friends recommend me to buy a Asus Xonar Phoebus. What do you think about this card?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mugenrain*
> 
> Thank you for your response.
> 
> My friends recommend me to buy a Asus Xonar Phoebus. What do you think about this card?


If you won't benefit from the build-in TPA6120 hp-amp, don't bother. And to benefit from it you need something like DT990 250ohm Pro.


----------



## mugenrain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> If you won't benefit from the build-in TPA6120 hp-amp, don't bother. And to benefit from it you need something like DT990 250ohm Pro.


I see, thank you.


----------



## Crizume

Finally Ordered my DT990 PRO.

Couldn't pass em up for $159 on Amazon right now and with some credit I had came to $35 out of pocket.

Will my Denon 1312 Receiver be enough to power these bad boys adequately or should I look at getting a dedicated Amp?


----------



## shinku443

I was looking for gaming headphones (i love me some HQ music though) because my AKG GHS1's broke, and after reading your post I decided I would buy some good headphones and just use a clip-on mic.

I narrowed it down to the Ultrasone Pro 550, but my dad works for Crown, where he gets an employee discount on JBL, Harmon Kardon, AKG, DBX,, etc. So I figured I'd look at those since he gets them for a discounted price.....

I'm new to all this science of sound stuff and was wondering if the Ultrasone Pro 550 would be better or maybe something like the AKG K272? I don't have a headphone amp, they would be plugged into my computer directly. I play games competitively (FPS, MOBAs, etc.) but I also listen to music daily.

My on-board sound card is a realtek ALC888 and its pretty decent. My GHS1 had a pretty rad sound quality to it with some beast bass. (But I'm a noob so I could be wrong)

Please assist,

And thank you for such an amazing guide!


----------



## Simca

Go with the Pro 550 and add a cheap Xonar DGX


----------



## shinku443

i forgot to mention I'm probably gonna have a pair of bookshelf speakers

Either the

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882665156

or the

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-Two-way-Bookshelf-Satellite/dp/B0045NCB32/ref=sr_1_2?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1374783564&sr=1-2

I'm not sure which to get, will the Xonar DGX be able to handle having both the headphone and the speaker plugged in at the same time?


----------



## Simca

The Infinity Primus' are passive speakers, they need a speaker amplifier. DGX is not a speaker amplifier, so no.


----------



## eliongater

Entered a competition to win some B&O BeoPlay H6. If I win (fingers crossed) would they be any good for gaming (fps)? I have read one review so far and it said they were balanced, I presume this is good for gaming as nothing overpowers anything.


----------



## Simca

I'm not familiar with B&O Speakers, but apparently many German luxury cars are using Bang & Olufsen speakers for their cars. Harmon Kardon speakers were always loved and necessary compared to the stock crap speakers BMW uses in their cars, but I'm interested in hearing how the B&O speakers sound as well.


----------



## Quesoblanco

just looking for opinions.

Would Bose speakers be a good buy if they werent so overpriced?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Quesoblanco*
> 
> just looking for opinions.
> 
> Would Bose speakers be a good buy if they werent so overpriced?


If they weren't overpriced, they wouldn't be Bose.







They don't sound bad, just no where near their price tag.


----------



## HPE1000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm not familiar with B&O Speakers, but apparently many German luxury cars are using Bang & Olufsen speakers for their cars. Harmon Kardon speakers were always loved and necessary compared to the stock crap speakers BMW uses in their cars, but I'm interested in hearing how the B&O speakers sound as well.


Yes, aston martin uses them last time I checked, they are something like a 14k dollar upgrade..


----------



## Sempre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I really cant understand how you can get the velour pads dirty on normal use.
> I have used my dt-770 daily for a year now, and I cant see any dirt/dust on them.
> By daily use I mean that the PC with the headphones doesnt have any speakers.
> 
> If you use the headphones on mobile devices then I can understand if you worry about dirt.


May i ask how you find the 770s in terms of gaming\movies


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sempre*
> 
> May i ask how you find the 770s in terms of gaming\movies


Works like a charm in BF2roject Reality with Dolby Headphones (DH-1 with Unixonar 7.1 mod).
In a week or so I can compare them to the Superlux HD681Evo


----------



## Sempre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Works like a charm in BF2roject Reality with Dolby Headphones (DH-1 with Unixonar 7.1 mod).
> In a week or so I can compare them to the Superlux HD681Evo


Nice, looking forward to that.


----------



## rss013

So i currently have a Sennheiser PC350 and as i only play CS:GO the positional is very important to me.
Would upgrading to the Asus Xonar DG be a good upgrade from onboard sound?


----------



## Simca

Yes, IMO.


----------



## Rognin

I am looking for pro advice.

I currently own the Xonar Xense package (kinda like it a lot) but really crappy Logitech 2.1 speaker system. The bass is muddy and the sound isn't very enjoyable.

I'm looking for a 2.1 system between 150 and 400 CAD that I can plug into the soundcard (Xonar Xense). I've looked at the Klipsch 2.1 Promedia and they seem pretty nice. Do you guys have any suggestion on products I should be looking into? I'll accept 5.1 suggestions, but I'd rather go towards quality vs quantity.

I do the following
-Play games
-Watch movies/youtube vids
-Stream UFC matches with friends (gets loud in the room, thought I should mention it)
-Skype with the GF

Thanks!

-Rog

Edit: Adivec on these models:
Orb Audio Mod1
Paradigm Millenia CT
Klipsch 2.1 Promedia


----------



## rss013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Yes, IMO.


Thanks for your reply, i did some research about the Xonar DG and finally decided to get one because im rlly excited about the build-in headphone amp.
About the 3 different amp mode settings, wich one do i need to use for my PC350?


----------



## hatrix216

My gosh I really want to buy this DJ controller:

http://www.numark.com/product/mixdeckquad

Anyone ever used it before ? Not sure if anyone DJs, but it looks awesome and I read some good things so far.

Found one for like $400 used and would totally pick it up. I need the decks, my Akai MPD24 doesn't give me enough control.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

A lot of information on sound quality but there's virtually no info on comfort on the first page. I'm looking for headphones that fit like the Beats Studio. Soft leather, over the ear. My head is strange and most headphones are uncomfortable, but the Beats Studio fit very comfortably on my head. The only headphone to do so. I would be do a little bit of everything with them.


----------



## Simca

I guess if more than 1 out of every 200,000 people cared about comfort more than SQ I would have written more about comfort.

Truth be told there's no way to say if a headphone will be comfortable for you. It's easier to make mention of the headphones that are uncomfortable than comfortable. What headphones were uncomfortable for you? What type of headphone are you looking for? I can tell you right now you're probably going to buy the DT770/990 without even going further than this minimal conversation right here.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Well I mentioned I would prefer headphones like the Beats Studio. Soft leather ear cups, on ear, oval ear cups. I wouldn't be apposed to round ear cups. I would like to hear some opinions on comfort from any users who've used any of the headsets or headphones that have been recommended.


----------



## Simca

Make sure you're being clear. The Beats Studio are over the ear. The Beats Solo HD are on the ear. From what you said in the post before this you want over the ear. That said, instead of leather, try velour. The DT770s should be what you're looking for..much more comfortable than leather. One of the most comfortable headphones I've worn (the Beyer line).

You can search online for Beyer comfort..everyone loves the velour pads. Don't think I've ever seen anyone say "These velours suck."


----------



## dvalle22

So I just purchased an Asus Xonar DGX. I am using them with my AudioTechnica A500x. I got it all set to a decent point and my music is sounded much much better than it was with on-board.

But I had questions about how you guys set up your cards for games like Counter Strike: GO. Specifically the best settings for pinpointing sound locations. Do you guys turn on Dolby Surround, or leave it on for games where this is important? Playing with it on definitely gave a more cinematic feel to games, but in CS I was getting false locational information sometimes.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Unixonar drivers with 7.1 DH mod/addon. It improves the placement of the virtual speakers.
Works like a charm in certain games.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> So I just purchased an Asus Xonar DGX. I am using them with my AudioTechnica A500x. I got it all set to a decent point and my music is sounded much much better than it was with on-board.
> 
> But I had questions about how you guys set up your cards for games like Counter Strike: GO. Specifically the best settings for pinpointing sound locations. Do you guys turn on Dolby Surround, or leave it on for games where this is important? Playing with it on definitely gave a more cinematic feel to games, but in CS I was getting false locational information sometimes.


Anytime you have software simulating positioning, IMO there are going to be inaccuracies.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Make sure you're being clear. The Beats Studio are over the ear. The Beats Solo HD are on the ear. From what you said in the post before this you want over the ear. That said, instead of leather, try velour. The DT770s should be what you're looking for..much more comfortable than leather. One of the most comfortable headphones I've worn (the Beyer line).
> 
> You can search online for Beyer comfort..everyone loves the velour pads. Don't think I've ever seen anyone say "These velours suck."


Well "over the ear" headphones to me are like the Logitech G35 that literally encompasses your whole ear, I dont like those, too much pressure on my temple and around my ear. The Beats Stuido sort of fit right around the edge of my ear though, fit perfectly.

The DT990 Pro is actually cheaper then the DT770 pro on Amazon. I noticed you recommended the DT990 Premium but I was wondering about any input on the pro model. Does it still require an amplifier? Is it better or worse then DT770? I'm gonna pull the trigger on one of the two based on these recommendations.


----------



## rss013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> So I just purchased an Asus Xonar DGX. I am using them with my AudioTechnica A500x. I got it all set to a decent point and my music is sounded much much better than it was with on-board.
> 
> But I had questions about how you guys set up your cards for games like Counter Strike: GO. Specifically the best settings for pinpointing sound locations. Do you guys turn on Dolby Surround, or leave it on for games where this is important? Playing with it on definitely gave a more cinematic feel to games, but in CS I was getting false locational information sometimes.


I have a xonar DG + sennheiser PC350 and mostly when i play CSGO i put my settings like:

- 2 channels (tried 8 aswell but doesn't seem to affect much in csgo)
- 48khz
- dolby headphone / 7.1 : off

This gives me the best sound positioning in-game, but you should try what suits you the best


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> Well "over the ear" headphones to me are like the Logitech G35 that literally encompasses your whole ear, I dont like those, too much pressure on my temple and around my ear. The Beats Stuido sort of fit right around the edge of my ear though, fit perfectly.
> 
> The DT990 Pro is actually cheaper then the DT770 pro on Amazon. I noticed you recommended the DT990 Premium but I was wondering about any input on the pro model. Does it still require an amplifier? Is it better or worse then DT770? I'm gonna pull the trigger on one of the two based on these recommendations.


They're both different as opposed to one being better than the other..if you want more midbass punchy the DT990s are for you..if you want more subbass rattle the DT770s are for you. DT770 has the benefits of being closed..DT990 has the benefits of being open...

Just remember not all headphones are created equally..your head might have hurt cuz the Beats suck at design and crushed your skull..the Beyer's shouldn't do that and are adjustable.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

No no, the Beats were the headphones that I said were most comfortable to wear for me. They put no pressure on my head or temple and I could wear them for extended periods of time without discomfort. I was looking for headphones that were similar to them in comfort.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> No no, the Beats were the headphones that I said were most comfortable to wear for me. They put no pressure on my head or temple and I could wear them for extended periods of time without discomfort. I was looking for headphones that were similar to them in comfort.


........huh.

I have never heard of a person who found them to be comfortable.

This will sound like a rude question, and I do apologize, but do you have an odd shaped head or small ears?


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> ........huh.
> 
> I have never heard of a person who found them to be comfortable.
> 
> This will sound like a rude question, and I do apologize, but do you have an odd shaped head or small ears?


I'm sure there are many people who find them comfortable given their massive popularity. But yes I have very small round ears for how large my head is. This is why I considered on ear headphones cuz most over the ear headphones hurt my head from pressure of them resting against my skull. But like I said, the Beats' combination of soft leather oval cups and their smaller shape they fit my head very comfortably.


----------



## Timu

Thinking about getting new speakers months from now, maybe a Klipsch.


----------



## Zillerella

Hallo all









If I choose to pick a sound card, which will be good for the headset then? http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/audio/sirus/

I am mainly a gamer, but also like listening to music/movies


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zillerella*
> 
> Hallo all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I choose to pick a sound card, which will be good for the headset then? http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/audio/sirus/
> 
> I am mainly a gamer, but also like listening to music/movies


Xonar DGX or the USB that comes with the headset. There is no point to waste more money on surround headsets.


----------



## Zillerella

Quote:


> Xonar DGX or the USB that comes with the headset. There is no point to waste more money on surround headsets.


Why the USB that comes with the headset? Is that any good?

And do you say I never should buy surround headset again?


----------



## Tiihokatti

I have a surround headset (pc510hda). Even when all the reviews say that it's a great surround headset, all I can say is that it's plain horrible. The SQ is equal to my old fps1500 4.1 speakers which are absolutely horrible.
As a reference, 180$ studio headphones sound nice compared to 500$ 2.0 speakers. Not the other way around (180$ speakers vs 500$ headphones I mean).


----------



## Zillerella

Okay, thanks.

It's just because I see no point in getting the Asus Maximus Formula VI, just because the onboard sound is good. Then I prefer a cheaper mobo with a sound card


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

I decided to go with the Audio Technica ATH-A700X Headphones and I received them today.

.

I've listened to some music, watched some movies, and played some video games. I'm no audiophile but they sound pretty good to me. They don't exactly have the comfort I was looking for and they sound no different then a pair of Beats so I may end up returning them and continuing my search for something more comfortable.


----------



## dvalle22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> I decided to go with the Audio Technica ATH-A700X Headphones and I received them today.
> 
> .
> 
> I've listened to some music, watched some movies, and played some video games. I'm no audiophile but they sound pretty good to me. They don't exactly have the comfort I was looking for and they sound no different then a pair of Beats so I may end up returning them and continuing my search for something more comfortable.


Do you have a smallish head? I got the A500x and they were rather uncomfortable on my small head. There are a few things you can do to make them more comfortable. The simplest is using a rubberband to hold the wings together, so that the ear cups don't weigh down on the top of your ears.

The other option involves a little cost (less than $10) if you dont have the supplies lying around. Basically just foam, or another alternative, in the ear cups to make them larger and softer. If interested I will post pictures of how I did this.


----------



## Hellravager

Heya all any recommendations for speakers/sound card for immersive gaming?
Location: US, Indiana
Budget: Can go up to 500 but prefer it at 400.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> Do you have a smallish head? I got the A500x and they were rather uncomfortable on my small head. There are a few things you can do to make them more comfortable. The simplest is using a rubberband to hold the wings together, so that the ear cups don't weigh down on the top of your ears.
> 
> The other option involves a little cost (less than $10) if you dont have the supplies lying around. Basically just foam, or another alternative, in the ear cups to make them larger and softer. If interested I will post pictures of how I did this.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


It's not so much that. I actually have a fairly large head. It's just that the ear cups aren't soft enough for me. After wearing them for an hour they start to hurt my ears and head.


----------



## Simca

I can imagine. The Audio technicas are so bad. They squeeze your head until it explodes like watermelons. most tight headphone ever. if only ppl could make headphones like beats. so soft. real quality.


----------



## dvalle22

After the few "mods" that I did to my A500x, they are now one of the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. I wear them for 5+ hour periods of time and have no strain on my ears at all.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hellravager*
> 
> Heya all any recommendations for speakers/sound card for immersive gaming?
> Location: US, Indiana
> Budget: Can go up to 500 but prefer it at 400.


- Closed/Open?
- Using just for gaming?


----------



## Hellravager

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> - Closed/Open?
> - Using just for gaming?


closed/open?
And mostly for gaming i do listen to alot of orchestra stuff like two steps from hell


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Open headphones leak sound in and out. Closed headphones don't but generally have smaller sound stages. For orchestral music you want clarity, larger soundstage, and preferably the headphones should be fast.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I can imagine. The Audio technicas are so bad. They squeeze your head until it explodes like watermelons. most tight headphone ever. if only ppl could make headphones like beats. so soft. real quality.


Lol, your funny. Beats are soft.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> After the few "mods" that I did to my A500x, they are now one of the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. I wear them for 5+ hour periods of time and have no strain on my ears at all.


What other mods would you recommend to increase comfort?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> Lol, your funny. Beats are soft.
> What other mods would you recommend to increase comfort?


Beats are clearly the best. OCN rates them very highly. http://www.overclock.net/t/1315295/are-beats-by-dre-headphones-the-best-are-there-any-better/0_30


----------



## dvalle22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> Lol, your funny. Beats are soft.
> What other mods would you recommend to increase comfort?


Adding some foam inserts inside the ear cups might help a little bit, but I'm not sure since you said they are tight on your head.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> Lol, your funny. Beats are soft.
> What other mods would you recommend to increase comfort?


I recommend adding a red b on the side of the headphone, that gives +10 to comfort.


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I recommend adding a red b on the side of the headphone, that gives +10 to comfort.


Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLa4fziHqD4

(Red B paint job is at the end)


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Beats are clearly the best. OCN rates them very highly. http://www.overclock.net/t/1315295/are-beats-by-dre-headphones-the-best-are-there-any-better/0_30


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I recommend adding a red b on the side of the headphone, that gives +10 to comfort.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *musicPC*
> 
> Here's a video
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLa4fziHqD4
> 
> (Red B paint job is at the end)


See that's the thing about human beings. We're all different and have different opinions on things. Something that's comfortable to you or a majority of people doesn't mean it's comfortable to everybody. Just because someone may like something that you don't is no reason to mock that person. That being said, reading this did make me laugh a bit lol.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Open *headphones* leak sound in and out. Closed headphones don't but generally have smaller sound stages. For orchestral music you want clarity, larger soundstage, and preferably the headphones should be fast.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hellravager*
> 
> Heya all any recommendations for *speakers*/sound card for immersive gaming?
> Location: US, Indiana
> Budget: Can go up to 500 but prefer it at 400.


----------



## Hellravager

Dont really like using head phones i only use em for teamspeak or during raids


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*


Ah good call! Don't know how I missed it.


----------



## Simca

I agree with you! Things with a red b on the side are definitely more comfortable than things without a red b on the side. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

I have the Sound Blaster Z sound card, and I'm currently on the search for a good pair of headphones to use for gaming for FPS. I need good positional cues, but at the same time, I want the headphones to have a fun factor to them as well. By that, I mean I don't want them to sound flat, but I want them to have some bass so that explosions come out nicely as well. So with that in mind, I've narrowed it down to the AD700x and the AD900x. I'm leaning towards the AD900x for the reasons stated above, but will the positional cues that the 700x has be sacrificed in the 900x?

Thank you.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Are the recommended speakers still comparable to newer stuff? I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about Definitive Technology and Infinity, but I rarely see them recommended on OCN?


----------



## dvalle22

Anyone know if audio technica is still proving support to north america? contacted them last week with no response. I want to get a spare pair of ear pads for my headset. I think I would rather have the fabric that is on the AD700s rather than the pleather that is on my headphones.


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

Try eBay. I think you can pick them up for $10 with shipping.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Are the recommended speakers still comparable to newer stuff? I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about Definitive Technology and Infinity, but I rarely see them recommended on OCN?


Audio technology doesn't change much at all, so all of that gear posted is still very good. Many speakers will be made for years and years. Flagship models tend to retain their value too.

Definitive Tech isn't bad, but they tend to overprice and inflate their specs.

I just think it isn't listed, since many people aren't willing to spend $250 for speakers plus an amp. Not to mention a decent source.


----------



## dvalle22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> Try eBay. I think you can pick them up for $10 with shipping.


Meh. I hate ordering from eBay, especially if they are from Japan/China. If it was Amazon I'd do it, but I haven't found any yet.

edit: if that ends up being the only option, I'll do it, but I'd like to find a better option


----------



## eliongater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> Meh. I hate ordering from eBay, especially if they are from Japan/China. If it was Amazon I'd do it, but I haven't found any yet.
> 
> edit: if that ends up being the only option, I'll do it, but I'd like to find a better option


What's so bad about eBay?

I've bought lots of things from eBay including my qnix


----------



## dvalle22

If its coming from the US, I dont have a issue with it, but all of the ear pads are coming from china or japan. I haven't had good luck with overseas transactions off eBay in the past so I stray away from them.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Are the recommended speakers still comparable to newer stuff? I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about Definitive Technology and Infinity, but I rarely see them recommended on OCN?
> 
> 
> 
> Audio technology doesn't change much at all, so all of that gear posted is still very good. Many speakers will be made for years and years. Flagship models tend to retain their value too.
> 
> Definitive Tech isn't bad, but they tend to overprice and inflate their specs.
> 
> I just think it isn't listed, since many people aren't willing to spend $250 for speakers plus an amp. Not to mention a decent source.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks.







So, in your opinion, are Polk Monitor 70's or 75T's worth their price? I'm looking at a pair for $375. Sorry for the questions, I'm trying to revamp my audio setup.


----------



## Simca

I don't like most Polk speakers except the RT series.

Definitive Technology Speakers are like B&W. Some B&W's are made cheaply and are plasticy pieces of crap. Some are great. Comes down to the speaker in question.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I don't like most Polk speakers except the RT series.
> 
> Definitive Technology Speakers are like B&W. Some B&W's are made cheaply and are plasticy pieces of crap. Some are great. Comes down to the speaker in question.


What would you recommend? Space isn't an issue and I'd like to keep it under $500 for a pair. I'm still pretty new to audio so I'm still getting to know the whole subject.


----------



## Simca

Either 100 for speakers (infinity P153) 100 for a stereo amp and 300 for a subwoofer.

Even if you can spend 500 on just speakers, the P153s are really amazing and it may not be worth spending more on a slightly better speaker unless you have a much larger budget to play with.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> What would you recommend? Space isn't an issue and I'd like to keep it under $500 for a pair. I'm still pretty new to audio so I'm still getting to know the whole subject.


What are you going to be using this for? I don't recommend towers for general PC use.


----------



## Captain Skyhawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Okay, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, in your opinion, are Polk Monitor 70's or 75T's worth their price? I'm looking at a pair for $375. Sorry for the questions, I'm trying to revamp my audio setup.


I have the whole Polk Monitor set. I have 2 Polk monitor 60's for my front and I love them. 375 for a pair of 70's is a steal I would definitely get them. Great sound. Check out the reviews if your unsure, people that own them love them.


----------



## benben84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> I have the whole Polk Monitor set. I have 2 Polk monitor 60's for my front and I love them. 375 for a pair of 70's is a steal I would definitely get them. Great sound. Check out the reviews if your unsure, people that own them love them.


I agree. I own the 70's and they are a great value budget speaker. They replaced 60's and made a huge difference in low end and volume.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benben84*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> I have the whole Polk Monitor set. I have 2 Polk monitor 60's for my front and I love them. 375 for a pair of 70's is a steal I would definitely get them. Great sound. Check out the reviews if your unsure, people that own them love them.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I own the 70's and they are a great value budget speaker. They replaced 60's and made a huge difference in low end and volume.
Click to expand...

Thanks!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Either 100 for speakers (infinity P153) 100 for a stereo amp and 300 for a subwoofer.
> 
> Even if you can spend 500 on just speakers, the P153s are really amazing and it may not be worth spending more on a slightly better speaker unless you have a much larger budget to play with.


I was trying to find P163's for for that price for surround, but only because I didn't know how much of a difference there was between th two.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> What would you recommend? Space isn't an issue and I'd like to keep it under $500 for a pair. I'm still pretty new to audio so I'm still getting to know the whole subject.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you going to be using this for? I don't recommend towers for general PC use.
Click to expand...

It would mainly be used for Music (mostly dubstep, some instrumental), video games, and movies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Skyhawk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Okay, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, in your opinion, are Polk Monitor 70's or 75T's worth their price? I'm looking at a pair for $375. Sorry for the questions, I'm trying to revamp my audio setup.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the whole Polk Monitor set. I have 2 Polk monitor 60's for my front and I love them. 375 for a pair of 70's is a steal I would definitely get them. Great sound. Check out the reviews if your unsure, people that own them love them.
Click to expand...

Definitely Considering.


----------



## nleksan

I am a big fan of Definitive Tech speakers especially for gaming or films, and in particular their "Bi-Polar" speaker designs. Short of some setups costing at least an order of magnitude more money, I have yet to hear anything with as convincing a "sound space", in that the sounds truly radiate from everywhere (in the proper way), and when properly configured you can easily pinpoint any one sound, but it's very hard to pinpoint the speakers.
KEF does some good work with this as well.


----------



## Frosch

Hey, someone in my local forum said that Logitech G430 and Logitech G230 is a good headset for gaming around that price range, can anyone tell your opinion about it?


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Hey, someone in my local forum said that Logitech G430 and Logitech G230 is a good headset for gaming around that price range, can anyone tell your opinion about it?


As stated in the OP, headsets typically have poor value compared to normal headphones, and logitech isn't a hifi sound company by any measure. Used AD700s would be perfect, and the OP says Superlux 668Bs are good.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> As stated in the OP, headsets typically have poor value compared to normal headphones, and logitech isn't a hifi sound company by any measure. Used AD700s would be perfect, and the OP says Superlux 668Bs are good.


Superlux HD681Evo headphones (~37$) are better than Beyerdynamic MMX2 headset (~80$). Nuff said.

I own both


----------



## Nocturn3

I went with the 668b's over the 681's, for $13 extra on amazon I thought why not. Did I make right choice? They will be arriving tomorrow. The only reason I went with them over the 681's is that people were saying that out the box the 668b's are great, while the 681's need some modding to muffle the high blah blahs(not a clue about this stuff).


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Are Samson SR850 still a good buy? My Vengeance 2000 broke so i need a replacement.


----------



## Simca

Yes.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Yes.


What sound card should i be looking to compliment that if it makes any difference?


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> As stated in the OP, headsets typically have poor value compared to normal headphones, and logitech isn't a hifi sound company by any measure. Used AD700s would be perfect, and the OP says Superlux 668Bs are good.


I'm looking for a headset since I'm gonna be using TS3, and i went to look for Beyerdynamic MMX2, but too bad it's supra aural not circumaural..


----------



## dvalle22

Just get a ModMic or a Zalman clip on with a nice pair of headphones. I made the move from headsets to headphones with a mod mic and couldnt be happier. Came from a pair of G930's


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvalle22*
> 
> Just get a ModMic or a Zalman clip on with a nice pair of headphones. I made the move from headsets to headphones with a mod mic and couldnt be happier. Came from a pair of G930's


yeah, but i haven't got my pc yet, i'm still playing on my laptop..so the sound card is not that decent..but can someone confirm the confussion whether the beyerdynamic mmx2 is supraaural or circumaural? I've seen on a website that it's circumaural, while at the beyerdynamic website it's supraaural


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> What sound card should i be looking to compliment that if it makes any difference?


A simple Xonar DG should be enough to get away from onboard. You can upgrade as you see fit from there.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> A simple Xonar DG should be enough to get away from onboard. You can upgrade as you see fit from there.


Hi Simca!

In terms of sound quality does the Sonar DG and DGX have any difference. I know one is PCI and one is PCI-E but does it matter?

Thanks!


----------



## Simca

No difference, same card.


----------



## Frosch

hey simca, I'm planning to build a new pc and get an asus sound card, is the asus xonar phoebus good?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> yeah, but i haven't got my pc yet, i'm still playing on my laptop..so the sound card is not that decent..but can someone confirm the confussion whether the beyerdynamic mmx2 is supraaural or circumaural? I've seen on a website that it's circumaural, while at the beyerdynamic website it's supraaural


They are supraaural and not made in Germany like Beyerdynamic headphones are normally made.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> hey simca, I'm planning to build a new pc and get an asus sound card, is the asus xonar phoebus good?


Idk if the drivers have changed since I last tried the card, but it wasn't good then for gaming.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Took a picture from my EMI-shielded Xonar DG (with my Potato aka. SGS1).


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No difference, same card.


Thank you! +rep!


----------



## cdoublejj

why is the Xonar D1 not listed, the DX is only a D1 with a PCIe converter slapped on it, which in some cases causes bugs. also the D1 doesn't require the stupid auxiliary power whihc makes cable management easier.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> why is the Xonar D1 not listed, the DX is only a D1 with a PCIe converter slapped on it, which in some cases causes bugs. also the D1 doesn't require the stupid auxiliary power whihc makes cable management easier.


Idk, why aren't other receivers and soundcards and external DACs and headphones and other audio equipment listed? Cuz obviously the OP is a lazy bum and thinks her time is so important that she can't list everything out there. Bro, I would totally report her if I could.


----------



## IBooNI

What a slacker.


----------



## Tiihokatti

And even Xonar DGX and DSX are missing from the list. What a slacker indeed.
It would save whole minutes of the readers time when now they have to google the info themselves.
/sarcasm off


----------



## cdoublejj

it might be that op doesn't have enough time.


----------



## brucethemoose

Been listening to some modded t50rps with a refurb xonar st for the past few days... Dear lord, it puts my poor ety iems to shame for almost the same money.

Just wanted to thank you OP. This post points alot of people in the right direction.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Yay, found a fix to my "no sound on reboot" Xonar D1 problem.

I just installed the "Audio re-starter for sound loop problem for Win Vista/7/8" app from unixonar and ran it when the sound was gone, started working straight away.


----------



## iARDAs

Hey folks. I am looking for a headphone that will be compatible with my Creative Zx Soundcard which I believe has an amp built in to it.

I am looking for something around $200 and can be purchased from amazon.

This will be for GAMING. I just want to feel the power of the games when I put it on.

I have a Harman Kardon 5+1 surround system at home and truly want some headphone that can give me that experience.


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Hey folks. I am looking for a headphone that will be compatible with my Creative Zx Soundcard which I believe has an amp built in to it.
> 
> I am looking for something around $200 and can be purchased from amazon.
> 
> This will be for GAMING. I just want to feel the power of the games when I put it on.
> 
> I have a Harman Kardon 5+1 surround system at home and truly want some headphone that can give me that experience.


Open backed headphones...such as the HD558/598 if you need accuracy. Or Beyer if you want a "fun" sounding headphone.


----------



## daav1d

Hi,

From the thread start this combo seems to be the best for gaming: Creative Z Soundcard + Audio Technica AD700. I have not gone through all 230+ pages so I just ask if this still is a good combo. When I´m listening to music it´s most heavy metal, death metal, melo death... ye basicly different kinds of metal and rock. But the sound for gaming is much more important. And I have never used anything else than onboard soundcard before, is it just to install the soundcard and disable onboard? Would i need anything else other than just Creative Z Soundcard + Audio Technica AD700?

Edit: FPS games!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> From the thread start this combo seems to be the best for gaming: Creative Z Soundcard + Audio Technica AD700. I have not gone through all 230+ pages so I just ask if this still is a good combo. When I´m listening to music it´s most heavy metal, death metal, melo death... ye basicly different kinds of metal and rock. But the sound for gaming is much more important. And I have never used anything else than onboard soundcard before, is it just to install the soundcard and disable onboard? Would i need anything else other than just Creative Z Soundcard + Audio Technica AD700?
> 
> Edit: FPS games!


The AD700s if you want positional audio cues, large soundstage etc.

Superlux 661's if you want more metal headphones that also do good for gaming, but aren't as capacious as the AD700s. The Superluxes are also a tightter fit by far than the AD700s because the AD700s are super loose fit.


----------



## psychrage

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a usb soundcard / dac solution with a headphone amp, 3.5mm or RCA out for 2.1 speakers, and Mic-In (I have a XLR Condensor Mic running to amp to 3.5mm out). Something like the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD. Reviews seem to indicate this isn't that great.

I currently have a Sound Blaster Z. However, I've downsized my motherboard to a Mini-ITX (ASRock Z77e-ITX) board. The Realtek AC898 is NOT going to cut it. It's _OKAY_ for speakers, but not headphones. I am looking into getting a mPCI-e to PCI-E adapter cable / riser. I wanted to what other options I've got.
I like that the Sound Blaster Z has echo cancellation for when I'm using speakers/mic. I tend to use speakers a lot more often than headphones.

Thanks.


----------



## Shogon

Been using this with my Klipsch speakers. Sounds way better then that creative device since I bought the HD first only to eventually buy that. Hoping I can sell this Creative thing so I can buy another E10.


----------



## RallyMaster

Just ordered the Audio-Technica ATR2500 USB microphone based on reading this thread. I'll finally have a microphone...after 3 years lol


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The AD700s if you want positional audio cues, large soundstage etc.
> 
> Superlux 661's if you want more metal headphones that also do good for gaming, but aren't as capacious as the AD700s. The Superluxes are also a tightter fit by far than the AD700s because the AD700s are super loose fit.


I will probably go for http://www.amazon.com/Technica-ATH-AD700-Open-air-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B000CMS0XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1379398604&sr=1-1&keywords=audio+technica+ad700 + http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Beamforming-Microphone-SB1500/dp/B009ISU33E/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1379398835&sr=1-1&keywords=creative+sound+blaster+z .Like you described the AD700s this combo sounds perfect for me from what I´ve read.

Is the microphone that comes with the sound card good or should i buy http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-Zm-Mic1-Sensitivity-Headphone-Microphone/dp/B00029MTMQ/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y ?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Just ordered the Audio-Technica ATR2500 USB microphone based on reading this thread. I'll finally have a microphone...after 3 years lol


dat 3 years of saving.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Simca have you ever thought about making a Not Recommended version of this? :3


----------



## Simca

No, I'm only capable of perfection.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No, I'm only capable of perfection.


Conceited much?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No, I'm only capable of perfection.


lol alright


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> dat 3 years of saving.


More like dat 3 years of not having a place to put it.


----------



## wierdo124

The Sony XB500 is impossible to find at $40 in what i was just looking...is it discontinued or something?


----------



## dipanzan

Guys are the Superlux 66x still a good buy?

I'm getting a Xonar DG/x and hoping to get a good HP but can't spend much.







Previously I owned a Shure SRH400 with a Creative X-Fi Titanium and before that a Sennheisser HD215 with a Xonar D1.

I loved the Senn/Xonar combo very much and it was a bliss, be it music/gaming. The Shure were very uncomfortable for me, too heavy and I primarily play CS/LANs, it was really a big hassle. I think I prefer open back headphones more, what would be some options for me? I really want that open sound/airy feeling that the HD215 gave. It didn't cramp my ears at all and was really nice having it on for hours.

Now I'm currently using a Siberia v2 with onboard, and really looking to change again to a better solution. My Siberia's left cup is giving out, and I'll probably sell it after getting a new one from RMA, or if I can just manage the money to buy a new set of cans. I also play CSGO competitively, so it would be a plus if the headphone has good positional/directional audio. I was originally hoping to get a Sennheisser HD55x, but that would be really expensive for me right now.









Edit: Forgot to mention: What I really want is comfort, anything comfortable and open would do.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dipanzan*
> 
> Guys are the Superlux 66x still a good buy?
> 
> I'm getting a Xonar DG/x and hoping to get a good HP but can't spend much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Previously I owned a Shure SRH400 with a Creative X-Fi Titanium and before that a Sennheisser HD215 with a Xonar D1.
> 
> I loved the Senn/Xonar combo very much and it was a bliss, be it music/gaming. The Shure were very uncomfortable for me, too heavy and I primarily play CS/LANs, it was really a big hassle. I think I prefer open back headphones more, what would be some options for me? I really want that open sound/airy feeling that the HD215 gave. It didn't cramp my ears at all and was really nice having it on for hours.
> 
> Now I'm currently using a Siberia v2 with onboard, and really looking to change again to a better solution. My Siberia's left cup is giving out, and I'll probably sell it after getting a new one from RMA, or if I can just manage the money to buy a new set of cans. I also play CSGO competitively, so it would be a plus if the headphone has good positional/directional audio. I was originally hoping to get a Sennheisser HD55x, but that would be really expensive for me right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Forgot to mention: What I really want is comfort, anything comfortable and open would do.


There is a new HD681 model that was released this year, Superlux HD681Evo. Got a pair myself as they are cheap as sausage here in Europe (~37$ with free velour pads)...
The superlux are still going strong in the cheap-o-market, and you can always replace the pleather pads with AKG velour pads if you dislike pleather like me.

And if you live in Europe, Beyerlux HD330 with DT770 velour pads have better comfort.


----------



## dipanzan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> There is a new HD681 model that was released this year, Superlux HD681Evo. Got a pair myself as they are cheap as sausage here in Europe (~37$ with free velour pads)...
> The superlux are still going strong in the cheap-o-market, and you can always replace the pleather pads with AKG velour pads if you dislike pleather like me.


That looks really nice. I'll check out some reviews. I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to HPs, but are pleather like the pads which come by default on the SRH440, then yes I really dislike them. I sweat a lot, and a open design and a less clamp force would be a delight.









Are these any like the HD215, open/airy sound? Thank you for the recommendation, rep+.


----------



## Tiihokatti

The Evo sound is pretty warm, so I doubt it would sound as "airy" as HD215.
Compared to my DT770 I would even say that they sound a little muddy (but they are 180$ headphones, y'know).

And here is a pretty good review/modding guide for the evo. Vanilla HD681 is also compared.

About comfort: The HD681/668 models use AKG K-240 sized pads so the inner diameter of the pad is 5,5cm. The Beyerlux that I added to my last post uses DT770 sized pads which have 6,0cm inner diameter, but the shape is different so I would say even 6,5cm ears would fit right in.
And pleather.


----------



## dipanzan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> The Evo sound is pretty warm, so I doubt it would sound as "airy" as HD215.
> Compared to my DT770 I would even say that they sound a little muddy (but they are 180$ headphones, y'know).
> 
> And here is a pretty good review/modding guide for the evo. Vanilla HD681 is also compared.
> 
> About comfort: The HD681/668 models use AKG K-240 sized pads so the inner diameter of the pad is 5,5cm. The Beyerlux that I added to my last post uses DT770 sized pads which have 6,0cm inner diameter, but the shape is different so I would say even 6,5cm ears would fit right in.
> And pleather.


So the bigger the pad, the more room it gives to my ears and not clamp it with tight force? The only reason I'm comparing the HD215 is because it was really comfortable wearing it, and the sound was really nice paired with Xonar D1. If the Superlux models are anything like a stock SRH440, then I'd want to avoid them.







I don't like tight fit headphones at all, just want them to hang losely over my head, with adjustable headband if possible. Any other openback headphones you recommend, btw how is the Sennheisser HD558? I can wait for now and save up to get one if it's really good over these options.


----------



## Ukkooh

Sorry for disturbing your thread but I'm in a serious need of help. My little brother played with our family's dog AND my PC 360 headset at the same time during my visit at my paren'ts around 4 months ago. The result was a partially snapped cable resulting in the mic being broken and since then the sound quality of my headset has been degrading fast. I think the power delivery to the actual elements was also affected which results in this slow breaking up of the headphones. I can't come up with a better theory as I never drop my headphones or use them at full volume etc.
Obviously, I have to replace my headset now and I've been eyeing on the PC 363D for a while. I don't want to sacrifice any of the sound stage or the positional audio of the PC 360 so I can't buy high-end cans. Is the pc 363D any better than the 360 sound stage/positional audio/sound quality -wise or does the 7.1 virtualisation actually make them worse? I'm open to other suggestions too.

Edit: Forgot to mention that it doesn't have to be a headset just a pair of cans will do as I already do have a separate mic anyway.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Sorry for disturbing your thread but I'm in a serious need of help. My little brother played with our family's dog AND my PC 360 headset at the same time during my visit at my paren'ts around 4 months ago. The result was a partially snapped cable resulting in the mic being broken and since then the sound quality of my headset has been degrading fast. I think the power delivery to the actual elements was also affected which results in this slow breaking up of the headphones. I can't come up with a better theory as I never drop my headphones or use them at full volume etc.
> Obviously, I have to replace my headset now and I've been eyeing on the PC 363D for a while. *I don't want to sacrifice any of the sound stage or the positional audio of the PC 360 so I can't buy high-end cans.* Is the pc 363D any better than the 360 sound stage/positional audio/sound quality -wise or does the 7.1 virtualisation actually make them worse? I'm open to other suggestions too.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to mention that it doesn't have to be a headset just a pair of cans will do as I already do have a separate mic anyway.


I don't really get that bolded part








Personally I recommend to stay away from USB-headsets as any decent soundcard can do the 7.1 virtualization as well.
So I recommend.... Wait... What's the budget? And you also seem to have Xtreme Audio soundcard already too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dipanzan*
> 
> So the bigger the pad, the more room it gives to my ears and not clamp it with tight force? The only reason I'm comparing the HD215 is because it was really comfortable wearing it, and the sound was really nice paired with Xonar D1. If the Superlux models are anything like a stock SRH440, then I'd want to avoid them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like tight fit headphones at all, just want them to hang losely over my head, with adjustable headband if possible. Any other openback headphones you recommend, btw how is the Sennheisser HD558? I can wait for now and save up to get one if it's really good over these options.


The HD215 earpads seems to have only 5,0cm inner diameter so the HD681/668 should feel more comfy with the larger space for ears.
But the comfy-factor is based on your own ears, my 5,5cm ears fit inside the HD681 pads pretty well but with DT770 my ears barely touch the earpads as they are just that big. And with that, the DT770 wins hands down.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I don't really get that bolded part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I recommend to stay away from USB-headsets as any decent soundcard can do the 7.1 virtualization as well.
> So I recommend.... Wait... What's the budget? And you also seem to have Xtreme Audio soundcard already too.


The budget depends on the pricing of AMD's new gpus. I should have around 1k€ to spend next month and I'm only going to buy the gpu and new headphones. So we can assume that my budget is atleast 300€. As for the bolded part when I bought this headset according to reviews and head-fi members the cans with best sound quality had problems with positional audio in gaming. According to sennheiser.com specification of the 363D it is not a usb headset.


----------



## Tiihokatti

The only way for a headset to have 7.1 virtualization is for it to have USB-soundcard bundled with it (integrated or optional).
On PC363D case its optional USB-soundcard (by optional I mean that the headphones also have 3.5mm jacks instead of only USB):


So for headphones, I would go for something like Sound Blaster Z (for SBX 7.1 virtualization and headphone amplifier) and Beyerdynamic DT990.
E: DT990 from Finnish shop
E2: and a little better (and expensive) option: DT880/DT990 Premium.
For more detailed differences of different DT models.

E3/OT: Did the foam disc mod to my HD681Evo, me likes. Removed it completely.


----------



## Ukkooh

Any other suggestions? I read about all of them and they just don't sound like something to get excited about at all. Especially on the sound stage department.

Edit: The best of them for me seems to be dt 990 600 ohm as I don't want to sacrifice gaming that much for audio quality. How much would a good amp for them cost?
Edit2: After studying a little bit I found out that a good amp for them costs atleast 3x the price of the headphones itself. Would this be a decent choice for them?


----------



## dipanzan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I don't really get that bolded part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I recommend to stay away from USB-headsets as any decent soundcard can do the 7.1 virtualization as well.
> So I recommend.... Wait... What's the budget? And you also seem to have Xtreme Audio soundcard already too.
> The HD215 earpads seems to have only 5,0cm inner diameter so the HD681/668 should feel more comfy with the larger space for ears.
> But the comfy-factor is based on your own ears, my 5,5cm ears fit inside the HD681 pads pretty well but with DT770 my ears barely touch the earpads as they are just that big. And with that, the DT770 wins hands down.


I've medium sized ears, but the problem is I sweat a lot and also it's really hot in my room to the point where wearing a tight headphone really cramps my head. Which one do you recommend, the 681 or the 668- large difference between the two? Also would the lower end Sennheiser 518/515, or maybe a 558 be a good option? I really liked the general design of these headphones, and feel like they wouldn't be that heavy/tight fit for me.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wierdo124*
> 
> The Sony XB500 is impossible to find at $40 in what i was just looking...is it discontinued or something?


They are gone bud. I used to have them. Really nice in terms of Bass and very comfortable. Not the most durable thing though.

I just got a SR850. I am blow away how good they sound. One problem i have is that @ 100% volume playing Flac they dont sound good. What could be the problem.

As far as Sound Card. If i get a STX and save for them or get something external like FiiO E10?


----------



## Frosch

Simca, does the xonar d1 have the same problem as DX in BC2? and is it great for gaming as well?


----------



## daav1d

Just ordered AD700 + Sound Blaster Z. Only used integrated sound card + gaming headsets such as Siberia V2 and Logitech G35 (USB) etc. This will be very exciting.


----------



## Thoth420

Hello audiophiles. I recently discovered this thread a bit too late as I had just purchased a wireless logitech g930 headset for my new gaming rig. Suffice to say I am not pleased....








I have a pair of logitech z313 2.0 speakers which I plan on upgrading to a better 2.1 set after the new year. For the time being I am looking to return the g930 and would like to grab a wired headset or a nice pair of headphones and desk mic....whichever fits my budget the best. They will be primarily (90% of the time) be used for gaming and VOIP namely for Battlefield 4.

I should note that I know little to nothing about audio and for the moment will be just using the creative onboard on the Maximus Hero VI and thus trying to pick a pair and stay inside my budget is proving to be difficult.
My budget is 100-150 US for either a headset or the headphones and mic.
Priorities are: quality(for the budget at least) and comfort equally. I have a pretty small sized head. Suggestions would be great.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dipanzan*
> 
> I've medium sized ears, but the problem is I sweat a lot and also it's really hot in my room to the point where wearing a tight headphone really cramps my head. Which one do you recommend, the 681 or the 668- large difference between the two? Also would the lower end Sennheiser 518/515, or maybe a 558 be a good option? I really liked the general design of these headphones, and feel like they wouldn't be that heavy/tight fit for me.


hd668b is the best sounding out-of-the-box, but it still has the annoyingly strong highs (can be fixed with EQ though, -5dB to 8kHz range should do the job).
As for the sennheiser, I have heard too many horror-stories of the hd5xx plastic joints/headbands. I know 7 guys who own/owned a sennheiser with the same joint/headband design and 4 of them broke in under 3 years.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> hd668b is the best sounding out-of-the-box, but it still has the annoyingly strong highs (can be fixed with EQ though, -5dB to 8kHz range should do the job).
> As for the sennheiser, I have heard too many horror-stories of the hd5xx plastic joints. I know 7 guys who own/owned a sennheiser with the same joint design and 4 of them broke in under 3 years.


I just wanted to add that the issue of the joints breaking with the HD5xx series died with the 515/555/595. I've had the HD518 for 2+ years now (almost 3 years) and still no cracks whatsoever. Sennheiser addressed that when they launched this new series by using different materials / resin for the 518/558/598. As for the best sounding of the 3, I chose between the same headphones and ended up getting the 518 since it sounded the best of the bunch (it had good bass response, the highs sound much better and has the better sound stage IMO. Add to the fact that they are by far more comfortable on the head and ears since i am able to use them for 6+ hours without any sweating or discomfort (I live in a tropical country), it's definitely better than the Superlux. It's actually comparable to the 555 (modded to have more bass) versus the 515.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Simca, does the xonar d1 have the same problem as DX in BC2? and is it great for gaming as well?


It's pretty much the same card. So it has all the problems/benefits the DX has in regards to gaming, positioning and SQ.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> They are gone bud. I used to have them. Really nice in terms of Bass and very comfortable. Not the most durable thing though.
> 
> I just got a SR850. I am blow away how good they sound. One problem i have is that @ 100% volume playing Flac they dont sound good. What could be the problem.
> 
> As far as Sound Card. If i get a STX and save for them or get something external like FiiO E10?


I would recommend you get a sound card that doesn't make you spend more for it's "amp" features. A DG/X would be just fine for those headphones. When you want to upgrade further I suggest looking into an external DAC.

I would assume that the reason those headphones sound bad at max volume is because your mother board's audio isn't that good and can't produce quality sound at high volumes. It's a very typical problem amongst most motherboards. A soundcard should fix that problem. The sound card should also allow for higher volume capabilities.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I would recommend you get a sound card that doesn't make you spend more for it's "amp" features. A DG/X would be just fine for those headphones. When you want to upgrade further I suggest looking into an external DAC.
> 
> I would assume that the reason those headphones sound bad at max volume is because your mother board's audio isn't that good and can't produce quality sound at high volumes. It's a very typical problem amongst most motherboards. A soundcard should fix that problem. The sound card should also allow for higher volume capabilities.


When you upgrade to external DAC whats would you suggest? Also will i still need a Sound Card when i use the External DAC?


----------



## mikeaj

Unless your source sucks and/or is giving you problems like crackling, hum, buzz, dropouts, etc. that's the last thing to upgrade. Also, even if you get something that needs a decent external amp, you can run an amp off of the sound card and thus still use the sound card for D/A.

There might be something else new and popular by the time you want an external DAC, so I don't see the need to recommend products myself (though I'm not gonna stop anybody else from chiming in)... that said, it's not like a hotbed of innovation where the theory and practice of DSP are constantly being pushed. There's nothing wrong with older gear.


----------



## Ukkooh

Is objective 2 amp or Schiit magni enough to power the dt 990 600 ohm decently? I'd like an answer before I order something stupid.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I just wanted to add that the issue of the joints breaking with the HD5xx series died with the 515/555/595. I've had the HD518 for 2+ years now (almost 3 years) and still no cracks whatsoever. Sennheiser addressed that when they launched this new series by using different materials / resin for the 518/558/598. As for the best sounding of the 3, I chose between the same headphones and ended up getting the 518 since it sounded the best of the bunch (it had good bass response, the highs sound much better and has the better sound stage IMO. Add to the fact that they are by far more comfortable on the head and ears since i am able to use them for 6+ hours without any sweating or discomfort (I live in a tropical country), it's definitely better than the Superlux. It's actually comparable to the 555 (modded to have more bass) versus the 515.


As I said, the comfy factor is based on your own head shape rather than the opinions of others. And ofc the 518 is better than superlux, they cost 4 times what I paid for my HD681Evo









Factors that I see as main points on making the headphones comfy:
1. How tall is your ear?
2. How large is the inner diameter of the headphone earpad? (= does the earpad rest against your ear or your skull, 1. is a large factor in this)
3. How well are the joints made? (= do the earpads share the pressure evenly)
4. Earpads: Velour vs pleather. (I hate pleather as it's plain bad for sweaty guys like me)
5. Headband design? (HD668B has "wings", etc.)

My HD681Evo had tiny bit too much clamping force and the headband felt a little uncomfy. The pleather was uncomfy too but it had both pleather and velour pads in the retail-box so it was not a problem.
Went nuts and made this:

Now it feels like DT770 with smaller earpads and clamping force (the earpads rest a little on my ears rather than fully on my skull like the DT770).
The joints are not as good as DT770 so the pressure is not shared as evenly.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Is objective 2 amp or Schiit magni enough to power the dt 990 600 ohm decently? I'd like an answer before I order something stupid.


Yeah, both are enough unless you want to listen really really loud on something with wide dynamic range.

If you're at all interested in IEMs, go with the O2 for flexibility; otherwise, the Magni should be fine so long as you have a 230V -> 115V adapter or otherwise some way to supply the Magni with power. It was only supposed to be sold in the US, so the included AC/AC adapter only has the correct turns ratio to turn ~115V mains voltage into what is needed.


----------



## Ukkooh

Thank you for your answer. I'm not interested in IEMs at all so magni won't be a problem. They also sell the adapter on their site (it is hard to get in Finland so I'll order it from there anyway) so that isn't a problem at all. So which one of them would be better?

Edit: Forgot to mention that I have no experience at all with headphone amps. What cables do I need and how much do they cost? Or are they included?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> As I said, the comfy factor is based on your own head shape rather than the opinions of others. And ofc the 518 is better than superlux, they cost 4 times what I paid for my HD681Evo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Factors that I see as main points on making the headphones comfy:
> 1. How tall is your ear?
> 2. How large is the inner diameter of the headphone earpad? (= does the earpad rest against your ear or your skull, 1. is a large factor in this)
> 3. How well are the joints made? (= do the earpads share the pressure evenly)
> 4. Earpads: Velour vs pleather. (I hate pleather as it's plain bad for sweaty guys like me)
> 5. Headband design? (HD668B has "wings", etc.)
> 
> My HD681Evo had tiny bit too much clamping force and the headband felt a little uncomfy. The pleather was uncomfy too but it had both pleather and velour pads in the retail-box so it was not a problem.
> Went nuts and made this:
> 
> Now it feels like DT770 with smaller earpads and clamping force (the earpads rest a little on my ears rather than fully on my skull like the DT770).
> The joints are not as good as DT770 so the pressure is not shared as evenly.


Where I come from the HD518 only cost twice as much as the HD681Evo which is well worth it IMO, of course in your case it isn't.

As for comfort, (yes I do agree with you) it basically boils down to the design and materials of the headphones in question. You mentioned the size of the earpad, this basically means understanding the differences between circumaural and supra aural (around your ears or on your ears). Having pleather versus velour is another material property you take into consideration when choosing comfortable headphones. The clamping force now comes down to the design of the headphone band, is it pliable or flexible enough to fit your head and is it designed to evenly distribute that clamping force. Is there enough padding on the head band so when it rests on your head it is comfortable? All these things definitely add up to the comfort level of a headphone and only by sampling different headphones can you figure things out that works best for you.

I'm lucky enough to have a local source that lets you try any headphone first before you buy so i'm able to "road test" the gear before I buy anything.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

They should have a earpad section where you can try different ear pads.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Thank you for your answer. I'm not interested in IEMs at all so magni won't be a problem. They also sell the adapter on their site (it is hard to get in Finland so I'll order it from there anyway) so that isn't a problem at all. So which one of them would be better?
> 
> Edit: Forgot to mention that I have no experience at all with headphone amps. What cables do I need and how much do they cost? Or are they included?


The amp's a dumb device. It has two (stereo and unbalanced) audio inputs and two (stereo and unbalanced audio outputs).

Magni has RCA inputs, which are usually color coded white and red and correspond to left and right channels. Well, each connector has the signal and then the ground. The headphone output side is a 1/4" (6.35 mm) jack. Those headphones either come with an adapter or have that natively. I forget which.

If your source has a normal 1/8" (3.5 mm) jack like most computers, phones and portable players, and consumer sound cards, you need some cable and/or adapter that plugs into that on one end and the RCAs on the other. Whatever fits works. If it has RCA outs like a TV or plenty of higher-end audio equipment, you just use normal RCA cables.

I don't think the Magni comes with cables? Some portable amps and others do.

O2 has lower electrical noise, meaning it will create less of a background hiss / noise on the headphones... which is moot because the Magni's noise level is low enough to be inaudible on most full-size headphones and listening conditions. O2 has lower distortion and some other better performance specs, but distortion and all is dominated by the headphones so much that it's kind of moot too. O2's more convenient in that it has a gain switch for adjusting the volume range, but it's less convenient in having the small 1/8" jack size. You can also use the O2 on batteries. Magni has slightly more output power, so it gives you the ability to listen at omg-_way_-too-loud as opposed to omg-way-too-loud. O2 is an open-source design, so you can check out the schematic; a decent amount of bench measurement results are also available, for whatever that's worth to you.

For people who have listened to both, impressions are all over the map as to which is better. However, the majority of impressions are not with levels matched and not blinded, so results are unpredictably biased and difficult to interpret with any confidence statistically.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> They should have a earpad section where you can try different ear pads.


Agreed!


----------



## Gilles3000

What do you guys think about the fiio X3? It looks like a great multi purpose device, dac, amp and portable player. But does it actually perform well as any?

And how does it compare to high-end on board audio like asus' supremeFX ?


----------



## Ukkooh

Thank you a lot mikeaj! I guess I'll buy the magni then. I hope I won't regret it.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> When you upgrade to external DAC whats would you suggest? Also will i still need a Sound Card when i use the External DAC?


Cross that bridge when you get there. Til then enjoy the sound card and determine if you want to continue the audio journey from there. The ODAC/O2 combo seems to be the next logical step though.

No point buying a Fiio product unless its for portable use.


----------



## Frosch

Is the ASUS Xonar U7 great for gaming and also for music?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> They should have a earpad section where you can try different ear pads.


Yeah... There is a 0,5cm difference in my and my TWIN brothers ear length, and that makes a big difference in how well different earpads/headphones fit.


----------



## DrGroove

What's a good place to buy quality cables? I've bought from bluejeanscable before, but I'd rather not spend $27 on 1 foot RCA interconnects if there are cheaper options.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> What's a good place to buy quality cables? I've bought from bluejeanscable before, but I'd rather not spend $27 on 1 foot RCA interconnects if there are cheaper options.


Monoprice


----------



## lb_felipe

If there is no a PCIe slot for a sound card like the Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD or Sound Blaster ZxR, the Sound Blaster X-Fi HD (external USB) might be enough in terms of effects on FPS games?

What are the drawbacks to using it instead of those aforementioned PCIe versions?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Made some adjustements to my DIY Zalman kinda-Modmic:

Velcro tape, the greatest invention since toilet paper. Now I can switch between DT770 and HD681Evo whenever I want


----------



## exyia

side rant

here I am enjoying my Sony MA900's after ebay'ing my HD598's - and now the ebay buyer is claiming they don't work. ebay policy gives buyers *45* days to make a claim after receiving an item...how am I supposed to assume he didn't break them?

I now see all the hate on ebay isn't without reason...

wish I could just sell on the marketplace here and never have to visit that stupid site again


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> side rant
> 
> here I am enjoying my Sony MA900's after ebay'ing my HD598's - and now the ebay buyer is claiming they don't work. ebay policy gives buyers *45* days to make a claim after receiving an item...how am I supposed to assume he didn't break them?
> 
> I now see all the hate on ebay isn't without reason...
> 
> wish I could just sell on the marketplace here and never have to visit that stupid site again


Get 13 Rep.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> side rant
> 
> here I am enjoying my Sony MA900's after ebay'ing my HD598's - and now the ebay buyer is claiming they don't work. ebay policy gives buyers *45* days to make a claim after receiving an item...how am I supposed to assume he didn't break them?
> 
> I now see all the hate on ebay isn't without reason...
> 
> wish I could just sell on the marketplace here and never have to visit that stupid site again


I feel your pain, ebay screws sellers hard and it's why I stopped using them years ago.


----------



## exyia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Get 13 Rep.


I don't like rep whoring just to sell stuff on forums - feels like I'm trying to cheat the system








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> I feel your pain, ebay screws sellers hard and it's why I stopped using them years ago.


if only there was an alternative besides CL...ugh this is a PITA. even if I had all the proof in the world, ebay policy still puts it all against the seller. or you blame it on shipping and then you have to argue with them about their fault in damaging the product, which is almost always a loss since you have to prove that when signing/receiving the package


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> I don't like rep whoring just to sell stuff on forums - feels like I'm trying to cheat the system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if only there was an alternative besides CL...ugh this is a PITA. even if I had all the proof in the world, ebay policy still puts it all against the seller. or you blame it on shipping and then you have to argue with them about their fault in damaging the product, which is almost always a loss since you have to prove that when signing/receiving the package


I've had sellers write "Only 15 days to return product" I don't know if that's against ebay rules or whatever, but if you're going to use eBay, that's definitely something to consider.


----------



## exyia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I've had sellers write "Only 15 days to return product" I don't know if that's against ebay rules or whatever, but if you're going to use eBay, that's definitely something to consider.


that doesn't override ebay policy unfortunately

definitely last time I sell on ebay - the cuts are huge as well (they wanted ~$50 off a $250 xeon I sold). I'll just keep spamming CL


----------



## taeZaKi

Curious to know if anyone can give me a rundown on Samson C01U vs Audio Technica ATR 2500 microphones.

On another thread here I read that the Samson beats it in terms of sound quality, but I just need a little more than one person'a assessment. While I'm all for quality, the thing is that currently the ATR 2500 may be attainable for a lot cheaper and that I find it a lot more stylish compared to the C01U.


----------



## dadayosang

I've somewhat gotten conscious about having my volume up too high in the wee hours of the morning.


----------



## shadman

Hey, I was perusing around again, and decided to check up on things, and came across this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1bckzx/stop_buying_the_dayton_b652s/

I know its a little old, but I didn't see it mentioned on here. Just wondering about this.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Nice little treat for Xonar soundcard owners:
XonarSwitch
Quote:


> XonarSwitch is a new application that allows you to control various Xonar's audio settings, define them as switchable profiles, and apply them on-the-fly without having to stop the audio playback.
> 
> Main features:
> 
> - Ability to change the Sound Card settings on the fly by directly interfacing with the driver.
> - No DPC latency increase: although it sends commands directly to the Xonar driver, it does so only when a profile is activated and only for the settings that actually change. It doesn't continuously poll the driver.
> - Ability to configure itself depending on the hardware it runs on, showing only the relevant options.
> - *Fully customizable global keyboard shortcuts usable to switch profile even when in a full-screen applications like a game.*
> - Supports Headphones Gain where applicable.
> - Easily clone a profile by editing the source profile and then changing its name.
> - Live mode allows to hear the effects of your settings in real time.
> - Very compact and portable: only one small EXE, currently just over 800K of size; no dependencies, no need for external DLLs, no need for a setup, drop it and launch it. It enables autostart by default on first run, which can be manually disabled by the user.
> - Built-in self-update code: it periodically checks for new versions and updates itself automatically.


Me likes.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadman*
> 
> Hey, I was perusing around again, and decided to check up on things, and came across this:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1bckzx/stop_buying_the_dayton_b652s/
> 
> I know its a little old, but I didn't see it mentioned on here. Just wondering about this.


Don't have any knowledge on this. Don't know if it's true or not. I can't tell you either way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taeZaKi*
> 
> Curious to know if anyone can give me a rundown on Samson C01U vs Audio Technica ATR 2500 microphones.
> 
> On another thread here I read that the Samson beats it in terms of sound quality, but I just need a little more than one person'a assessment. While I'm all for quality, the thing is that currently the ATR 2500 may be attainable for a lot cheaper and that I find it a lot more stylish compared to the C01U.


Get the AT2500. While the Samson may sound better, the price difference and looks are what's going to make you enjoy your purchase more than that little bit extra better SQ. Having a nice looking mic in front of you is worth more than you may think and you'll never have buyers remorse if you save a lot more money on it.


----------



## longroadtrip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadman*
> 
> Hey, I was perusing around again, and decided to check up on things, and came across this:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1bckzx/stop_buying_the_dayton_b652s/
> 
> I know its a little old, but I didn't see it mentioned on here. Just wondering about this.


If you check this video that the guy put up...there is a header that says it is now irrelevant. The B652s were fixed in July of 2013.







Although, they are still very much an entry level speaker.


----------



## shadman

Oh they were huh? Excuse me, guess I didn't look into it far enough.


----------



## KeyboardXpert

I don't mean to be rude or even to really propose a change in this list, but the AD700 is now discontinued. Perhaps it should be replaced with the AD700X? Or are the AD700X not as good? I know they cost more, just putting it out there to make sure people realize that the AD700 is no longer being produced.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KeyboardXpert*
> 
> I don't mean to be rude or even to really propose a change in this list, but the AD700 is now discontinued. Perhaps it should be replaced with the AD700X? Or are the AD700X not as good? I know they cost more, just putting it out there to make sure people realize that the AD700 is no longer being produced.


So that's why you can't find AD700 from Finland anymore... I remember seeing some sales at one point but after that they disappeared like a fart in the desert.

Same happened to my S23A700D monitor, lots of sales everywhere and then they just disappeared.


----------



## KeyboardXpert

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> So that's why you can't find AD700 from Finland anymore... I remember seeing some sales at one point but after that they disappeared like a fart in the desert.
> 
> Same happened to my S23A700D monitor, lots of sales everywhere and then they just disappeared.


\

Yep. You know it's gone when Amazon no longer says "Buy Now," because now it only says "Available from these sellers."

I think the AD700X is its replacement, but I don't know whether it's as good. LevelCap seems to think it's way better in comfortability, if that means anything to you.


----------



## Gero2013

What about something good in the $60/€60 range? It would be my first audio card so I am not sure I would even know the difference between, say the
Terratec SoundSystem Aureon 7.1 PCIe interne Soundkarte (100dB )

and the

Creative Soundblaster Z Retail.

All I want is very good directional positioning in BF4 and that it takes off load of the CPU so I get more fps








Any recommendations in the $60/€60 range? If not I may have to go with the Creative Z


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> What about something good in the $60/€60 range? It would be my first audio card so I am not sure I would even know the difference between, say the
> Terratec SoundSystem Aureon 7.1 PCIe interne Soundkarte (100dB )
> 
> and the
> 
> Creative Soundblaster Z Retail.
> 
> All I want is very good directional positioning in BF4 and that it takes off load of the CPU so I get more fps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any recommendations in the $60/€60 range? If not I may have to go with the Creative Z


From what I see the Terratec doesn't have any kind of headphone surround support (Xear 3D). So SBZ would be a better option, you can get OEM SBZ for pretty cheap.
Depending on your headphones, even 30€ Xonar DGX would be good.

And "takes load off from CPU" is total BS.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> From what I see the Terratec doesn't have any kind of headphone surround support (Xear 3D). So SBZ would be a better option, you can get OEM SBZ for pretty cheap.
> Depending on your headphones, even 30€ Xonar DGX would be good.
> 
> And "takes load off from CPU" is total BS.


Ok I will read up on Xear 3D
OEM SBZ? Where can I get those?

I was under the impression audio processing does tax the CPU and offloading it to a dedicated sound card would remove that load, allowing higher frame rate etc...? Xi-Fi with 64mb is supposed to help.

About the Xonar DGX, I am planning to buy a fairly high end headset such as the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X
would its potential be maxed by a Sonar DGX?

Btw do I need 7.1 for gaming or is 5.1 enough?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Oh, the Terratec actually has the Xear 3D (so hard to find any info on the card...).
Xonar DGX has Xear3D too, but it also has Dolby Headphones.
Sound Blaster Z has SBX instead of Xear/DH and it's much better for gaming.

I recommend SBZ if you don't want to go any higher in price.

And about the CPU/soundcard: Windows killed most of the hardware audio capabilities with Vista/7/8. That is why the help is minimal from the soundcard (The Recon3D 4-core soundcard marketing makes me laugh).


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Oh, the Terratec actually has the Xear 3D (so hard to find any info on the card...).
> Xonar DGX has Xear3D too, but it also has Dolby Headphones.
> Sound Blaster Z has SBX instead of Xear/DH and it's much better for gaming.
> 
> I recommend SBZ if you don't want to go any higher in price.
> 
> And about the CPU/soundcard: Windows killed most of the hardware audio capabilities with Vista/7/8. That is why the help is minimal from the soundcard (The Recon3D 4-core soundcard marketing makes me laugh).


Ok thanks for pointing that out.
Is the SBZ worth the money / good value?


----------



## Thoth420

So satisfied with the sound I am getting from my new audio setup (even out of the craptastic speakers I pillaged from my old build). The OP helped me make some choices....love my headset it was exactly what I wanted at the moment and the card allows expansion. Thank you Simca for compiling all of that information for a noob like me.


----------



## Gero2013

Can anyone recommend an alternative to the ATH-AD700X?
unfortunately I cant get them in Europe! The Ultra Sone Pro costs €200 which is a bit too much!
Am looking for something similar in €100-150 price range, open, for positional pinpointing in FPSs.
Planning to pair it with a Creative SBZ!
Any tips appreciated!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> Can anyone recommend an alternative to the ATH-AD700X?
> unfortunately I cant get them in Europe! The Ultra Sone Pro costs €200 which is a bit too much!
> Am looking for something similar in €100-150 price range, open, for positional pinpointing in FPSs.
> Planning to pair it with a Creative SBZ!
> Any tips appreciated!


DT990 Pro?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/beyerdynamic_dt990pro.htm

They also have the AD700X but the price is...


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> DT990 Pro?
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/beyerdynamic_dt990pro.htm
> 
> They also have the AD700X but the price is...


Thanks for the tips just had a look at them! You reckon 990 Pro > Sennheiser HD598/558 in terms of positioning in gaming?
btw gave you some rep for yesterday!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> Thanks for the tips just had a look at them! You reckon 990 Pro > Sennheiser HD598/558 in terms of positioning in gaming?
> btw gave you some rep for yesterday!


Seriously the Senns are very good for gaming, just like when the HD515/555/595 was good for gaming the 518/558/598 are very good.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Seriously the Senns are very good for gaming, just like when the HD515/555/595 was good for gaming the 518/558/598 are very good.


thanks for answer, I just got the AKG K701 though, apparently their positioning accuracy is like the best









@Tiihokatti
you mentioned that you can buy the SB Z as OEM cheaper?
Like how or where could I do that?
About to buy it today or tomorrow


----------



## Tiihokatti

Amazon.co.uk had the OEM SBZ for 60€, not sure if the price is still the same.


----------



## Groovy

Hi all! I have been looking at this thread for a while now and some pages, made a choice of a setup and then got sad. I was aiming at the Dayton b52s bookshelfs, sub800 and the DTA100a, altho from parts express they charge a 200$ shipping fee to ship to canada.. EH. Anyone could help me find a setup that's close to that? I've looked at the Swa m50w, can' seem to trust them.

Any opinions will greatly help ^_^


----------



## longroadtrip

They sell on Amazon..they ship to our friends in the North don't they?


----------



## Groovy

Bookshelfs and the sub does, not the amp
In this case, i'm either looking for an amp close to the dta-100a, or a whole new idea (i.e: active speakers)

I still don't know the real differences between active speakers and passives + amp setups, as I see either prices are ranging

(This for music on a Xonar DX)


----------



## BigMack70

Picked up a set of Logitech z906 speakers a while back for $200... they're pretty amazing at that price point.

Also am loving my Razer Chimaera 5.1 headphones... absolutely amazing sound for gaming.

Was a bit sad that neither of those warranted recommendations (though I agree about Logitech's stuff being overpriced... not sure I would have paid for the z906 set if I hadn't gotten it at such a good price). My Sound Blaster Z is a great gaming sound card, though!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> Picked up a set of Logitech z906 speakers a while back for $200... they're pretty amazing at that price point.
> 
> Also am loving my Razer Chimaera 5.1 headphones... absolutely amazing sound for gaming.
> 
> Was a bit sad that neither of those warranted recommendations (though I agree about Logitech's stuff being overpriced... not sure I would have paid for the z906 set if I hadn't gotten it at such a good price). My Sound Blaster Z is a great gaming sound card, though!


The reason why razer will never get a recommendation is because any soundcard can do the same 5.1/7.1 surround with Razer Surround, cmss-3d, sbx and Dolby Headphones.

Not to mention Chimaera is optical so it bypasses the soundcard completely by using its own cheap soundcard/DAC. Which is also the reason why I see no point in your statement that SBZ is great for gaming...


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Amazon.co.uk had the OEM SBZ for 60€, not sure if the price is still the same.


thanks I saw it yesterday, but someone told me that the AKG K701s need a very good headphone amplifier which the SZB apparently doesnt have. They recommended Asus Xonar Essence.
Do you think thats a good one? How do you think it will perform for gaming?


----------



## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> The reason why razer will never get a recommendation is because any soundcard can do the same 5.1/7.1 surround with Razer Surround, cmss-3d, sbx and Dolby Headphones.
> 
> Not to mention Chimaera is optical so it bypasses the soundcard completely by using its own cheap soundcard/DAC. Which is also the reason why I see no point in your statement that SBZ is great for gaming...


I don't always play with headphones









Also SBZ provides Dolby encoding so that the headphones get surround sound (and yes I know they use their fake surround sound - it still needs dolby encoding to work).


----------



## Simca

I wouldn't say any sound card is equipped to drive K701s _well_. Either invest in a separate amp or live with whatever soundcard suits you best for gaming (At least having some kind of amp).


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I wouldn't say any sound card is equipped to drive K701s _well_. Either invest in a separate amp or live with whatever soundcard suits you best for gaming (At least having some kind of amp).


could you elaborate on that? what would I lose with a sound card compared to external AMP?


----------



## iARDAs

What is a great headphone around $200-250 that will sound amazing in music and games with a Soundblaster Zx soundcard?

Edit : Currently I am using a Asus Vulcan headset and I guess I can do MUCH better.


----------



## thestache

Anyone got any thoughts on these?

Looking for a set of headphones with a built in mic that'll be good for gaming and no more than these price wise. No surround gaming rubbish just real solid stereo.

Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 Closed Back Gaming Headset

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=416&products_id=25384

They have the open and closed versions but I was thinking the closed for some punchier bass. 53mm drivers sounds nice.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> thanks for answer, I just got the AKG K701 though, apparently their positioning accuracy is like the best


Well you definitely got better headphones and definitely more expensive, but worth it!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> What is a great headphone around $200-250 that will sound amazing in music and games with a Soundblaster Zx soundcard?
> 
> Edit : Currently I am using a Asus Vulcan headset and I guess I can do MUCH better.


Well, the ATH-AD700 are pretty good headphones under $200; here's the LINK

Though the HD598 @$200 is no slouch either in terms of positional accuracy with a bit more bass; link HERE.

Both cans are pretty decent for different genres of music (specially for live music, jazz and classical) maybe except for Dub Step and the likes that require a bit more bass.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> What is a great headphone around $200-250 that will sound amazing in music and games with a Soundblaster Zx soundcard?
> 
> Edit : Currently I am using a Asus Vulcan headset and I guess I can do MUCH better.


You need to give more information, like what you listen to, show us youtube videos if it's not something Americans typically hear..what it will be used for (gaming etc) and what equipment you have or are planning to pair it with and why. Give us ratios of gaming to music. (Be realistic). Some say they game 50% of the time, but really they game more like 15% of the time..this would only be 50% if you plan on using the headset only for gaming like 50% of the time and would otherwise listen to your speakers except at night. You understand.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Anyone got any thoughts on these?
> 
> Looking for a set of headphones with a built in mic that'll be good for gaming and no more than these price wise. No surround gaming rubbish just real solid stereo.
> 
> Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 Closed Back Gaming Headset
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=416&products_id=25384
> 
> They have the open and closed versions but I was thinking the closed for some punchier bass. 53mm drivers sounds nice.


Last I heard expected pricing would be around $300. Was not aware they were released yet. The open back version is called the ADG-1 and the closed back version is the AG-1. Probably Air Dynamic Gaming and Air Gaming. Who knows.

While this would be recommended as a need to have headset option, with it basically being an AD700X/A700X, price wise, that's still very steap. What will set it apart really is color options and how good the mic is.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Well, the ATH-AD700 are pretty good headphones under $200; here's the LINK
> 
> Though the HD598 @$200 is no slouch either in terms of positional accuracy with a bit more bass; link HERE.
> 
> Both cans are pretty decent for different genres of music (specially for live music, jazz and classical) maybe except for Dub Step and the likes that require a bit more bass.


I will look into that thanks 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You need to give more information, like what you listen to, show us youtube videos if it's not something Americans typically hear..what it will be used for (gaming etc) and what equipment you have or are planning to pair it with and why. Give us ratios of gaming to music. (Be realistic). Some say they game 50% of the time, but really they game more like 15% of the time..this would only be 50% if you plan on using the headset only for gaming like 50% of the time and would otherwise listen to your speakers except at night. You understand.


90% gaming. No movies. In terms of music Rock, Pop, Slow, Latin etc... Not too worried about music but gaming is no 1 priority.

I have a Sound Blaster Zx as a soundcard.

I am deciding between Beyer DT 990 pro 250 and Sony MDRMA900...

If there is something better for $200 let me know. Thanks and +rep


----------



## Polarity

Hello, is there a microphone out there someone can recommend me for gaming needs,

I am using a mx cherry reds ducky shine 3 atm and my friends are complaining on how loud my keyboard is all the time q-q lol

right now i am using logitech usb microphone i was wondering if there is any microphone out there that will not pick up the sound of my keyboard
i hate push to talk and also muting myself Q_Q and then turning it back on....

thank you for you help







 and time to read this!!! my budget is around $100~


----------



## Simca

Buy O-rings for your keyboard or lower the volume of the microphone.


----------



## bumblebee1980

do the new Audeze headphones launch Holiday 2013? I will be pre-ordering the Audeze LCD-XC


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polarity*
> 
> Hello, is there a microphone out there someone can recommend me for gaming needs,
> 
> I am using a mx cherry reds ducky shine 3 atm and my friends are complaining on how loud my keyboard is all the time q-q lol
> 
> right now i am using logitech usb microphone i was wondering if there is any microphone out there that will not pick up the sound of my keyboard
> i hate push to talk and also muting myself Q_Q and then turning it back on....
> 
> thank you for you help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and time to read this!!! my budget is around $100~


Put a piece of soft foam between the desk and mic. It will work wonders.


----------



## ginger_nuts

Just needing help.

I have found some Swan M50W 2.1 speakers on ebay for about 2/3 the price new.

Is it a good deal?

I currently have an ASUS Xonar Essence ST sound card.

My primary use are gaming (bits of every type), 60+70's rock music, some 80's disco music and your typical youtube videos.


----------



## aksthem1

What do they normally cost for you guys?


----------



## Bdebrooke

Simca , What would be a good recommendation Sound Card for a Pair of ATH-M50 I'm split 90 % Music 10% gaming . Also is there any Mobile Sound card that would be worth recommending for the same headphones , I.E Are External Soundcards worth it for Laptops.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bdebrooke*
> 
> Simca , What would be a good recommendation Sound Card for a Pair of ATH-M50 I'm split 90 % Music 10% gaming . Also is there any Mobile Sound card that would be worth recommending for the same headphones , I.E Are External Soundcards worth it for Laptops.


How much do you have to spend on one?

Do you want a external soundcard or DAC? The difference between the two is that a soundcard is able to process an input(mic, line in, etc.) as well as an output. A DAC will only output sound. There are plenty of USB DACs out there with great sound quality.


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> How much do you have to spend on one?
> 
> Do you want a external soundcard or DAC? The difference between the two is that a soundcard is able to process an input(mic, line in, etc.) as well as an output. A DAC will only output sound. There are plenty of USB DACs out there with great sound quality.


50-100 in that range , im looking for a soundcard for my desktop , and i supposed i wouldnt mind just a DAC


----------



## aksthem1

There is the Schiit Modi for $100. Might be the best option for just music.


----------



## ginger_nuts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> What do they normally cost for you guys?


They typically retail for about $320 + $25 to $35 postage = $345

The ones on Ebay are, used but in great condition, $175 + $25 (postage) = $200


----------



## aksthem1

That's not bad at all. And if it's anything like Swans other stuff then it will be pretty good. A better alternative to the Klipsch Promedia. It's hard to build something better for the price too, unless you get lucky on used audio gear.

I still have a set of Swan drivers for a build that I've been planing to do and I miss my Swans M200 sometimes.


----------



## Bdebrooke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> There is the Schiit Modi for $100. Might be the best option for just music.


Now that I think about it , Im more like 50 % 50 % , I only listen to online music so actually going entirely for music wont really benefit me . Dont really have any direct ripped Audio.

If you still think thats my best option then ill look into purchasing it . if im going to be streaming decently , with a Snowball Mic would a soundcard be a better decision ?


----------



## Simca

I'd go with a Z card of the 100 dollar sort.

Actually with the M50s I'd probably go for a similar Xonar.


----------



## LDV617

Idk if you guys are using this stuff for gaming or production or entertainment. BUT that being said I have never had any problems with my Audio Kontrol 1, plays everything beautifully, records beautifully.

Amazing budget sound card for gaming or for production. And works with OSX and Windows 7 (almost) out of the box.

They have been discontinued, mine's almost 10 years old still working perfectly. But I'm sure the new Native Instruments have a matching product, will have to do some research to see it's current counterpart.


----------



## Rar4f

I need a headphone for gaming, could someone please check out my post in a other thread that has all information, and post response here


----------



## ZeroAlive

Thanks for the guide, helps heaps!









Because i love in Australia prices can be all over the place.. I have been looking at the Swan D1080-IV and Swan D1080MKII 08.

I can find the Swan D1080-IV to fit a price i like but what are they like compared to the Swan D1080MKII 08 if anyone has a good idea?


----------



## Frosch

Hey simca, can I ask you about the audio technica ath a500? is it a great headphone like the a700? I'm planning to buy it since the ath a700 here in Indonesia is out of my budget..


----------



## Simca

A500 is like the A700 but not as refined.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> A500 is like the A700 but not as refined.


is it a great headphone?


----------



## Simca

Of course not. Neither is the A700.


----------



## Frosch

but why did you recommend it? is it a sarcasm?


----------



## Simca

Not everyone can afford to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a "great" headphone. That doesn't mean they shouldn't enjoy audio with what they can afford. Clear?


----------



## Frosch

clear







, sorry for the rudeness


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polarity*
> 
> Hello, is there a microphone out there someone can recommend me for gaming needs,
> 
> I am using a mx cherry reds ducky shine 3 atm and my friends are complaining on how loud my keyboard is all the time q-q lol
> 
> right now i am using logitech usb microphone i was wondering if there is any microphone out there that will not pick up the sound of my keyboard
> i hate push to talk and also muting myself Q_Q and then turning it back on....
> 
> thank you for you help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and time to read this!!! my budget is around $100~


AntLion ModMic 3.0 when it comes out, for a mic that attaches to headphones.

If you want a phenomenal all-around mic for the price, though, the Blue Microphones Yeti is often available for well under $100 if you catch a sale, and it's extremely good. Not quite recording quality, but good enough that you'll sound better than 99% of people on YouTube


----------



## BritishBob

So I had a Xonar DX blow up on me a month or two back, looking tot replace it. Any suggestions? Similar price but not Asus... My DGX is on the way out as well... Might be coincidence but two cards dead/dying in less than a year doesn't sound good...

Headphones: PC360s.

Cheers for any suggestions.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BritishBob*
> 
> So I had a Xonar DX blow up on me a month or two back, looking tot replace it. Any suggestions? Similar price but not Asus... My DGX is on the way out as well... Might be coincidence but two cards dead/dying in less than a year doesn't sound good...
> 
> Headphones: PC360s.
> 
> Cheers for any suggestions.


http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-29-102-054-_-10312013_5&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=6152855&SID=28m27z5teiph


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-29-102-054-_-10312013_5&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=6152855&SID=28m27z5teiph


I think the link you gave is wrong, when you click on it a PSU deal pops us.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think the link you gave is wrong, when you click on it a PSU deal pops us.


Looks like the deal has already ended.
It was Sound Blaster Z @56$


----------



## Magical Eskimo

What do people think of the Yamaha RXV675?


----------



## Matt-Matt

So just out of curiosity where do Microlab Solo 6c's fall? Or are they not recommended for any particular reason? I absolutely love mine.

Also, I'd be looking at an STX for mostly music and videos plus some games from what I've read, should I opt for the ST or the STX though?


----------



## xFALL3Nx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> is it a great headphone?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Of course not. Neither is the A700.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> but why did you recommend it? is it a sarcasm?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Not everyone can afford to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a "great" headphone. That doesn't mean they shouldn't enjoy audio with what they can afford. Clear?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> clear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , sorry for the rudeness


^ Sounds like the pleb above you was the one who was rude, no need to apologize Frosch!

There are quite a few OCN members like her that are a bit rude, do not let this discourage you from asking questions again.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xFALL3Nx*
> 
> ^ Sounds like the pleb above you was the one who was rude, no need to apologize Frosch!
> 
> There are quite a few OCN members like her that are a bit rude, do not let this discourage you from asking questions again.


Such a white knight <3


----------



## Tiihokatti

The Creative Audigy FX/RX soundcards have arrived to Amazon.
I wonder how they fare against Xonar DGX/DSX


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xFALL3Nx*
> 
> ^ Sounds like the pleb above you was the one who was rude, no need to apologize Frosch!
> 
> There are quite a few OCN members like her that are a bit rude, do not let this discourage you from asking questions again.


She has the spicy Latina attitude. It's in her nature.


----------



## locao51

**I have decided these are good ones


Spoiler: titanium HD and xonar DX



Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Titanium HD ($ 308) in brazil)
or the
Asus Xonar DX ($ 175) in brazil)



**What i do


Spoiler: what i do



15% gaming
25% movies
60% music



**or if you want to help me decide i can expend at most 700 reais about 350 dollars the site i found to have most sound cards in brazil until now


Spoiler: soundcard site i found



http://translate.google.com.br/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardstore.com.br%2Findex.php%3Fview%3Dprodutos%26cat%3D1%26n_categoria%3DPlaca%2520de%2520Som&sandbox=1


or you can suggest a good sound card for the price range minumum being about the xonar DX maximum being about the titanium HD in the US and i will try to find any retailers here

**I was wondering which headphones should i buy? i want one that covers my whole ear, please list a low price to a high price about 3 or 4 if can ( consider that i live in brazil for example a Sennheiser HD 598 costs about 600 dollars so thats to high for me but that would really be the maximum about 1.300 reais but i would have to wait one year to buy it it will take all my econnomies) i currently own a philips shl5012


Spoiler: current headphone



its a philips shl5001 http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=SHL5001/28&slg=EN&scy=US
also found here: http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHL5001-28-Headband-Headphone-Orange/dp/B004JU0E7Q



**I havent found a good website to buy headphones yet but the one that has some


Spoiler: a site i found with some brands



http://translate.google.com.br/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.americanas.com.br/linha/262453/audio/fones-de-ouvido



**I would like sugestions
do i keep current headphone or buy a new one i know it is not a good one but i just want to know if i keep using or buy a new one. i will still use mine for road trips. and going out. i want on for the computer.

thank you all in advance this thread helped me decide a lot, i was going to buy a corsair vengence 1500 . but not anymore. sorry for this kind of format its my firs post. if there are any questions please let me know


----------



## Triniboi82

Guys need some advice on a decision I'm contemplating please....currently using a recon 3d and so far it's been good to me no complaints paired with a ultrasone 550, I mainly game, watch movies and some music occasionally, got a bit of xtra $ to spend and getting a great deal on the newer model, the sound blaster Z.

Sorry I'm not a audiophile but am aware the Z is apparently the much better card, just wondering if that card give me a *noticeable* improvement in sound quality over the recon 3d? Thanks for any assistance


----------



## Tiihokatti

Played Halo3/xbox360 today with my speakers. Been a while since last time.

Does it make me more of a audiophile than a gamer when I think I would much rather get a 500$ TV + 500$ speakers than a 1000$ TV?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Played Halo3/xbox360 today with my speakers. Been a while since last time.
> 
> Does it make me more of a audiophile than a gamer when I think I would much rather get a 500$ TV + 500$ speakers than a 1000$ TV?


not really. you won't get good speakers for $500 but you can get a really good Panasonic Plasma for a $1000.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> not really. you won't get good speakers for $500 but you can get a really good Panasonic Plasma for a $1000.


I'm not talking about surround speakers... No use for that kind of setup as I only watch movies with DTS audio once a year and console games don't need surround.
And I would still much rather take 500$ TV + B3031A than the plasma.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I'm not talking about surround speakers...


you can get good bipole/dipole surround speakers with that budget.

the cheapest speakers I have owned are the Totem Dreamcatchers ($600) which stereophile reviewed and really liked but these speakers are entry level.

there are DIY speaker kits ($750-1000) that use Seas, Scan-speak, Fountek and RAAL drivers that are really good value.











Panasonic mid and high end televisions often use the same panel so you get nearly the same performance minus some bells and whistles.

if you don't think you can put together a DIY speaker kit than the television is going to be the better value.


----------



## Tiihokatti

You did know that Panasonic is going to discontinue all their plasmas this xmas, right?








The whole plasma production line is going to be shut down by March.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> You did know that Panasonic is going to discontinue all their plasmas this xmas, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole plasma production line is going to be shut down by March.


you will still be able to buy them. Panasonic is just halting production.


----------



## Tiihokatti

AFAIK they are going to focus on 4K tech, so the next time we will see Panasonic plasma is going to be on a 4K TV... Which is never.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/08/panasonic-end-plasma-tv/
Quote:


> Even though Panasonic denied it back in April, it appears an earlier rumor of the company halting its plasma TV line might turn out to be true after all. According to Japanese business outlet Nikkei, the electronics firm hopes to get out of the plasma biz much sooner than initially thought. Indeed, Panasonic has reportedly already discontinued the development of new plasma TVs and hopes to stop production by the end of fiscal 2013 which is around March of next year. Sales will then continue until inventory runs out. The paper states that Panasonic has suffered losses exceeding 750 billion yen through fiscal 2012 thanks to the waning product line and is in talks to transfer tenancy rights or sell off its remaining plasma factory.


And I would *still* pick a 500$ TV + B3031A over 1000$ panasonic with internal speakers...


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> AFAIK they are going to focus on 4K tech, so the next time we will see Panasonic plasma is going to be on a 4K TV...
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/08/panasonic-end-plasma-tv/


OLED televisions are much more exciting. I saw the Samsung OLED at TAVES 2013 last week. even under mediocre lighting conditions the black levels were impressive.

but these televisions are still first generation. early generations of Plasma televisions had some serious problems.


----------



## bumblebee1980

none of the 4K LED televisions that have been reviewed and calibrated with spectroradiometer/colorimeter have the picture quality of a Plasma. you need to be sitting so close to a 84" 4K LED television to even see the difference. the larger the panel the further away you can sit. for years Panasonic made a 37" Plasma exclusive to Europe because the homes over there are much smaller so good luck with that. I hope people do research before they run out and buy one.


----------



## DzillaXx

Ok I have a question for the OCN Audiophiles.

Just moved and now am using my old B652's that I used to use as Rear Speakers as my Bedroom's TV speakers.

Picked up the B652's when they were only $25, now they are nearly $40 a pair.

While I was originally thinking about just buying another pair, I gave the thought to maybe get a cheap upgrade.

Which is when I found this, Onkyo D-N3XA. I could get a used pair for $50, what really is just a few bucks more then a brand new pair of B652's. The Speakers themselves look nice, drivers look better then the Dayton Audio Drivers.

Thinking about jumping on the D-N3XA's, should go great with the Klipsch B20's I currently use as front speakers on my Computer.

So question is should I get the D-N3XA's or the B652's? Unless you have a better pair I should get for around $50.

Checked craigslist out, nothing good ATM. Wish I jumped on a pair of speakers that someone was selling way under priced a few months back, but wasn't expecting to move then.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I have heard that the b652 line was recently transferred to another manufacturer and that he quality has gone way down. They are no longer the wonderfully cheap star they were. Would not recommend anymore.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> I have heard that the b652 line was recently transferred to another manufacturer and that he quality has gone way down. They are no longer the wonderfully cheap star they were. Would not recommend anymore.


They are back to the same OEM, but I've never been an advocate of the B652. Since there were other speakers around the same price range that were better.

As for the Onkyos they are very inefficient, but they are cheap and I'm sure they would be an upgrade for the B652.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Ok I have a question for the OCN Audiophiles.
> 
> Just moved and now am using my old B652's that I used to use as Rear Speakers as my Bedroom's TV speakers.
> 
> Picked up the B652's when they were only $25, now they are nearly $40 a pair.
> 
> While I was originally thinking about just buying another pair, I gave the thought to maybe get a cheap upgrade.
> 
> Which is when I found this, Onkyo D-N3XA. I could get a used pair for $50, what really is just a few bucks more then a brand new pair of B652's. The Speakers themselves look nice, drivers look better then the Dayton Audio Drivers.
> 
> Thinking about jumping on the D-N3XA's, should go great with the Klipsch B20's I currently use as front speakers on my Computer.
> 
> So question is should I get the D-N3XA's or the B652's? Unless you have a better pair I should get for around $50.
> 
> Checked craigslist out, nothing good ATM. Wish I jumped on a pair of speakers that someone was selling way under priced a few months back, but wasn't expecting to move then.


Ok as a follow up I decided to skip the Onkyo and went with a No Name Brand called ANV








Considering that If I got a pair of bookshelf speakers I would also need to get stands for them as well. What would cost another $50 on top of the $50 I was going to pay for them.

Found ANV AV-515FS's on Ebay for $115 for a par brand new, beating Amazon's pricing. Reviews don't look bad at all, And the Cost was vary low compared to other tower speakers. After some Burn-In the speakers should sound pretty decent I hope. Using them as rears anyways, but They atleast look good.









http://www.amazon.com/AV-515FS-Silver-Finish-Floor_Standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B0047X00H4


----------



## bumblebee1980

just sold the Audeze LCD-2, Denon AH-D5000 and Bryston BHA-1 then turned around and spent so much money i'm not sleeping this week lol


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> just sold the Audeze LCD-2, Denon AH-D5000 and Bryston BHA-1 then turned around and spent so much money i'm not sleeping this week lol


You sold the LCD-2? What did you buy?


----------



## bumblebee1980

it's my birthday this week. I upgraded to the Audeze LCD-3 and a Decware amplifier


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> You sold the LCD-2? What did you buy?


A boat....duh


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's my birthday this week. I upgraded to the Audeze LCD-3 and a *Decware amplifier*


----------



## bumblebee1980

pretty much a boat hehe

also I posted in wrong thread. I always get this one confused with the club.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> Guys need some advice on a decision I'm contemplating please....currently using a recon 3d and so far it's been good to me no complaints paired with a ultrasone 550, I mainly game, watch movies and some music occasionally, got a bit of xtra $ to spend and getting a great deal on the newer model, the sound blaster Z.
> 
> Sorry I'm not a audiophile but am aware the Z is apparently the much better card, just wondering if that card give me a *noticeable* improvement in sound quality over the recon 3d? Thanks for any assistance


You'll hear a difference, but probably not one worth spending money on at this time. Unless you can sell your card for almost all of what you put into it or are upgrading headphones, probably wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's my birthday this week. I upgraded to the Audeze LCD-3 and a Decware amplifier


Nice! What do you think of it so far?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> A boat....duh


LOL I was thinking more SNL.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Nice! What do you think of it so far?
> LOL I was thinking more SNL.


I haven't received them yet


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I haven't received them yet


Does the amp have a power tube? Is it a preamp or a headphone amp?

Please tell me it at least has an EL84 on it.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You'll hear a difference, but probably not one worth spending money on at this time. Unless you can sell your card for almost all of what you put into it or are upgrading headphones, probably wouldn't be worth it.


Thanks but I already pulled the trigger. I may consider selling the recon 3d (may keep it for backup) which is actually retailing on Amazon for alot more than the Z, ($133US used?!!, $169US brand new?!!) I'm a bit confused as to why. I didn't have any plans to upgrade my headphones atm cause I really enjoy using them, just ordered the 750 earpad replacements for them as well. I did get a good deal ($76US new) and it was $ I could part with.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Does the amp have a power tube? Is it a preamp or a headphone amp?
> 
> Please tell me it at least has an EL84 on it.


there is a rectifier and input/output tubes. the output tubes are indeed EL84. it's a speaker amp and headphone amp (1x balanced and 2x unbalanced). master volume is a stepped attenuator and there are line level controls for the inputs.

I was able to talk someone into selling me one so I don't have to wait months to get a brand new one. I can still sell it and order the Eddie Current Zana Deux SE if I don't like it.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

What microphone would you guys recommend for Teamspeak/gaming? its gotta be a 3.5 or 6mm jack, Id rather it be connected to my sound card

atm Im back to using my craptastic webam, I did have a modmic but it just randomly died on me, not sure if its just the wiring or the mic its self







and I dont particularly want to buy another one or stuff around with warranty etc, I tried some of the clip on ones but I have a fan on 24/7 so it was picking up the fan more then anything, fans not even 2ft away









Having a directional, shotgun or whatever you call them mic on one of my monitors wouldnt bother me but it would need to be good and able to pick up quiet voice and also not pick up the sound of the fan

Is there any that anyone could think of? Thanks


----------



## taeZaKi

Similar note, I was wondering if you guys think a dynamic mic would be better for stuff like recording games and streaming rather than a condenser.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taeZaKi*
> 
> Similar note, I was wondering if you guys think a dynamic mic would be better for stuff like recording games and streaming rather than a condenser.


there are some good dynamic microphones out there but I have always liked condensers more.

this is a good one.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/76687-REG/Electro_Voice_16501707_RE50_B_Omni_ENG.html


----------



## hatrix216

For the money, this condenser mic is pretty fantastic: http://www.zzounds.com/item--CADGXL2200

I owned it for a while and SQ was fantastic. Only used it for music production though. It was $100 when I originally bought it but also came with a mic stand. After I stopped singing lead vocals for a band though I ended up trading it for an Akai MPD24 midi controller (such a good deal....).

The SQ difference between a dynamic mic and even the GLX2200 is pretty significant.

It's fun messing with a condenser too. Turning the gain up high enough I can hear myself lightly scratch the wall on the opposite side of the room....


----------



## Sebiale

Does anyone know any decent microphone headsets? (That is, a microphone that is positioned near the mouth but it's not combined with headphones.)


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> Does anyone know any decent microphone headsets? (That is, a microphone that is positioned near the mouth but it's not combined with headphones.)


What's popular is to buy a nice set of headphones, and buy a separate microphone you can clip to your T-shirt or whatever, if thats an option for you


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> What's popular is to buy a nice set of headphones, and buy a separate microphone you can clip to your T-shirt or whatever, if thats an option for you


He's asking for an attachable mic option like the ModMic


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> He's asking for an attachable mic option like the ModMic


oooh right, I had no idea they even existed!


----------



## PCModderMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> What's popular is to buy a nice set of headphones, and buy a separate microphone you can clip to your T-shirt or whatever, if thats an option for you
> 
> 
> 
> He's asking for an attachable mic option like the ModMic
Click to expand...


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCModderMike*


----------



## Gil80

Hi all

Does anyone have an opinion / experience on the SteelSeries Siberia Elite in terms of sound stage and ability to pickup sound directions?
I intend to use it without the USB card they provide. I'll connect it to the Sound Blaster Z PCI card.


----------



## moarxx

In the past I've purchased a lot of lower end "gaming headsets", but I always ended up regretting it due to the low build quality and lackluster sound. I've had my Logitech G35s for a year and a half or so and they're barely holding together at this point (and they're still somewhat uncomfortable). This time I'm hoping to spend a bit more, but the problem comes with trying to figure out exactly what to buy. After looking through a ton of other stuff, I'm now considering Sennheiser's PC 350s. I'm aware that the 360s are recommended, but the open design just isn't going to work in my current living situation (too much background noise).

I've looked into getting a pair of actual headphones, though finding a microphone that works poses a bit of an issue. The cheaper clip-on mics (Zalman, etc.) are pretty low quality and pick up a ton of background noise, so I was hoping to get a ModMic or something similar (if something else exists)...except that I can't. ModMics have been having manufacturing issues for a while so the better model wont be available until sometime next year. Personally, I'd rather not wait that long.

I currently have on-board sound (Realtek ALC892) and I'm looking to replace that as well. From what I've gathered from this thread and reviews elsewhere, it seems as if the 350s are in dire need of an amp for better sound quality. As I'm not looking to spend hundreds of dollars on a sound card + a dedicated amp, I'm currently looking at getting one of ASUS' Xonar cards with a built-in amp, assuming one of those would be sufficient. The main post recommends the DG, but I was curious about the DXG. Is it just a newer/better model or is it something entirely different? Would either of these cards be sufficient to power the 350s enough to make them worth buying?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moarxx*
> 
> In the past I've purchased a lot of lower end "gaming headsets", but I always ended up regretting it due to the low build quality and lackluster sound. I've had my Logitech G35s for a year and a half or so and they're barely holding together at this point (and they're still somewhat uncomfortable). This time I'm hoping to spend a bit more, but the problem comes with trying to figure out exactly what to buy. After looking through a ton of other stuff, I'm now considering Sennheiser's PC 350s. I'm aware that the 360s are recommended, but the open design just isn't going to work in my current living situation (too much background noise).
> 
> I've looked into getting a pair of actual headphones, though finding a microphone that works poses a bit of an issue. The cheaper clip-on mics (Zalman, etc.) are pretty low quality and pick up a ton of background noise, so I was hoping to get a ModMic or something similar (if something else exists)...except that I can't. ModMics have been having manufacturing issues for a while so the better model wont be available until sometime next year. Personally, I'd rather not wait that long.
> 
> I currently have on-board sound (Realtek ALC892) and I'm looking to replace that as well. From what I've gathered from this thread and reviews elsewhere, it seems as if the 350s are in dire need of an amp for better sound quality. As I'm not looking to spend hundreds of dollars on a sound card + a dedicated amp, I'm currently looking at getting one of ASUS' Xonar cards with a built-in amp, assuming one of those would be sufficient. The main post recommends the DG, but I was curious about the DXG. Is it just a newer/better model or is it something entirely different? Would either of these cards be sufficient to power the 350s enough to make them worth buying?


The Xonar DGX is plain old DG with PCIe connection instead of the obsolete PCI.
The brand new Audigy FX soundcard is also an option to consider, as it should have much better headphone amp.

If you can find a removable mic similar to the one the cheap fatal1ty headset has, you can do something like this. Quick and dirty Modmic.


----------



## djriful

@Simca My Zalman mic broke for months, I'm now looking for something better. I saw the OP post, so I guess this is good enough mic for voip gaming majorly?

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004QJREXM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> @simca
> My Zalman mic broke for months, I'm now looking for something better. I saw the OP post, so I guess this is good enough mic for voip gaming majorly?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004QJREXM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB


Modmic is an improvement and cost half as much and you don't need a pop filter or acoustic treatment.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> @Simca
> My Zalman mic broke for months, I'm now looking for something better. I saw the OP post, so I guess this is good enough mic for voip gaming majorly?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004QJREXM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB
> 
> 
> 
> Modmic is an improvement and cost half as much and you don't need a pop filter or acoustic treatment.
Click to expand...

I don't feel like sticking something onto my $300 headphone.


----------



## Simca

That's understandable. The AT2500 should be just fine. I'd personally rather spend the extra money for the AT2020, but everyone has different budgets.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Why does everyone go USB microphones I thought analog though sound cards were better?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Why does everyone go USB microphones I thought analog though sound cards were better?


Because condenser microphones are on a whole different level when it comes to quality.
And condensers need pre-amplification which is why they don't work with normal line-in/mic jacks of the soundcards.

And to make it clear:
USB condenser mics have the pre-amp integrated.
Cheapest (USB) condenser I know is the Samson Go Mic.
*Those Logijunk mics you are thinking about are not condensers!*


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Because condenser microphones are on a whole different level when it comes to quality.
> And condensers need pre-amplification which is why they don't work with normal line-in/mic jacks of the soundcards.
> 
> And to make it clear:
> USB condenser mics have the pre-amp integrated.
> Cheapest (USB) condenser I know is the Samson Go Mic.
> *Those Logijunk mics you are thinking about are not condensers!*


Ah ok now I get it









Hey I was thinking more of the Modmic, Razer or the Zalman clip on ones, there the only fail ones I've ever used







but I know there not condensers, there just cheap and nasty


----------



## bumblebee1980

you don't need a microphone like that for chatting over teamspeak lol

that microphone is for pro applications. people are going to hear your entire room.. the music coming out of your open backs, keyboard, mouse clicks, fans, etc. even the Amazon reviews warn this.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's understandable. The AT2500 should be just fine. I'd personally rather spend the extra money for the AT2020, but everyone has different budgets.


Store in Canada is up $140 on those AT2020, that is like $60 price differences and if AT2020's were $100 mark, I would have gone for it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you don't need a microphone like that for chatting over teamspeak lol
> 
> that microphone is for pro applications. people are going to hear your entire room.. the music coming out of your open backs, keyboard, mouse clicks, fans, etc. even the Amazon reviews warn this.


Depends, I have so many 3 cheap mics including Zalman one. People can barely hear me and there was a lot of static noise. Also planning for youtube video soon so it would be useful.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Cheap mics like the Modmic and Zalman one are okish but I have the same problems, people can hardly hear me even if Im pretty much chewing on the damn thing and also my Zalmans and a mod mic died in less then a year


----------



## Tiihokatti

I'm more than happy with my pimped Zalman (micboom + windscreen), loud and clear with Xonar DG.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Lol nice, Im tempted to buy another Zalman, there cheap and easy







and it beats this craptastic C600 webcam one Im using atm









What exactly could one use as a DIY pop filter/windscreen thingy?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Lol nice, Im tempted to buy another Zalman, there cheap and easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and it beats this craptastic C600 webcam one Im using atm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly could one use as a DIY pop filter/windscreen thingy?


Take an useless old headset/mic you have.
And salvage the windscreen/micboom from it.

Done









Or just eBay them.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Take an useless old headset/mic you have.
> And salvage the windscreen/micboom from it.
> 
> Done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or just eBay them.


Ah ok cool, might look into it, gonna try one last time and get a Zalman mic if not, something 10x more expensive and overkill for me


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Hey guys, what can you recommend as a decent microphone that wont pick up background noise really well, I play through speakers fairly close to me so I wanna be able to have a decent amount of volume without my friends being able to hear everything. looking to spend maybe up to £40

I'm using a really rubbish speedlink clip on mic at the moment and everyone I talk to complains about the background noise and buzzing


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Hey guys, what can you recommend as a decent microphone that wont pick up background noise really well, I play through speakers fairly close to me so I wanna be able to have a decent amount of volume without my friends being able to hear everything. looking to spend maybe up to £40
> 
> I'm using a really rubbish speedlink clip on mic at the moment and everyone I talk to complains about the background noise and buzzing


1. Desktop/clip on?
2. USB/analog?
3. Prefer on/off switch?


----------



## Simca

The Logitech USB Desktop mic gets a fair amount of praise from me. It's the cheapest mic I recommend (I don't recommend the Zalman mic). It has the ability to pick up your voice loud and clear, or with a change of the volume switch in record settings, can become noiseless and just pick up your voice. All this done from a good 2-3 feet from your face.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Not fussed on USB or analogue or clip or desk.
I think the Logitech one looks weird, like a bit silly maybe? The Samson go mic (?) Looked good but a lot of people said it picks up a lot of background noise


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The Logitech USB Desktop mic gets a fair amount of praise from me. It's the cheapest mic I recommend (I don't recommend the Zalman mic). It has the ability to pick up your voice loud and clear, or with a change of the volume switch in record settings, can become noiseless and just pick up your voice. All this done from a good 2-3 feet from your face.


Not good. Many were wired backwards to where the preamp wouldn't work. Unless you are preety good at soldering, I wouldn't go that route.

Source: My own.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

What do you guys think about the Audio-Technica ATH-ADG1 Open Air & Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 Closed Back Gaming Headsets? they look nice but no reviews yet that I can find


----------



## Sebiale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> He's asking for an attachable mic option like the ModMic


I actually already have ModMic and I really like it, unfortunately I've found my headphones to be problematic so I plan to just get a pair of speakers. But this leaves me in a bit of a quandary with the mic.
I suppose I could always just hang the headphones around my neck and use the modmic like that, but it's rather uncomfortable, and while a standing microphone is an option it just seems awkward after the convenience of one attached to a headset.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Not good. Many were wired backwards to where the preamp wouldn't work. Unless you are preety good at soldering, I wouldn't go that route.
> 
> Source: My own.


Countered by my own.

Source: My own.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The Logitech USB Desktop mic gets a fair amount of praise from me. It's the cheapest mic I recommend (I don't recommend the Zalman mic). It has the ability to pick up your voice loud and clear, or with a change of the volume switch in record settings, can become noiseless and just pick up your voice. All this done from a good 2-3 feet from your face.
> 
> 
> 
> Not good. Many were wired backwards to where the preamp wouldn't work. Unless you are preety good at soldering, I wouldn't go that route.
> 
> Source: My own.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Not good. Many were wired backwards to where the preamp wouldn't work. Unless you are preety good at soldering, I wouldn't go that route.
> 
> Source: My own.
> 
> 
> 
> Countered by my own.
> 
> Source: My own.
Click to expand...

Legit Sources?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Legit Sources?


my source is more legit than his my source.

Source: my source


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> What do you guys think about the Audio-Technica ATH-ADG1 Open Air & Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 Closed Back Gaming Headsets? they look nice but no reviews yet that I can find


They were just released on the 19th of November, so it might take a bit for reviews to show up. I'm curious as well about them, especially the ATH-ADG1.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> They were just released on the 19th of November, so it might take a bit for reviews to show up. I'm curious as well about them, especially the ATH-ADG1.


Yeah I know, I would of thought some people might of gotten review samples early tho like with most things


----------



## tx-jose

Just got a Crative Sound Blaster Zx because of this thread paired with a set of Audio Technica AD700s and my god.....I cant believe my ears!!!! Never knew my games and music could sound so amazing! ! First Hi-Fi expierence and im absolutely blown away.

Sound card is so much better then the onboard audio on my Asus ROG Z77 Formula. It was good but this card just makes it sound like crap!!

Thanks OCN audio guide!!!!!


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Just got a Crative Sound Blaster Zx because of this thread paired with a set of Audio Technica AD700s and my god.....I cant believe my ears!!!! Never knew my games and music could sound so amazing! ! First Hi-Fi expierence and im absolutely blown away.
> 
> Sound card is so much better then the onboard audio on my Asus ROG Z77 Formula. It was good but this card just makes it sound like crap!!
> 
> Thanks OCN audio guide!!!!!











I'm waiting for my Creative Sound Blaster Z and the Audio Technica A700x to arrive.... I hope I'll be blown away as well


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for my Creative Sound Blaster Z and the Audio Technica A700x to arrive.... I hope I'll be blown away as well


I was amazed. Like I have good onboard audio with my mobo but I was afraid that a "low end" sound card would not make that much of a difference....boy was I wrong!!! everything sounds totally different.!!

I dont see the point to jump to the 700x because I have had the 700s for a while....although I do get made fun of from my family because i have brown and purple headphones......until they try them on and listen to them...especially now that they just come alive with the new sound card!!

You hear things in music that you have never heard before. I went for the Zx's because of the external controller thing......more #SWAG for my desk lol and I like having the volume control right there......I got it for $99 because the local TigerDirect was having a sale


----------



## pac08

Hey guys i'm thinking about finally replacing my HARX 700s and i would appreciate any recommendations (I'm going to pair them up with my Soundblaster Z). The usage will be 60% (sometimes even more) competitive fps gaming and 40% music (mostly house music). At first i was going to choose between the Beyerdynamic DT 990s or the 770s but some unexpected expenses came up so i could use the extra cash. My budget is around 100$ (you can use amazon.com as reference or any reliable shop in the NYC area, since i'll be visiting next week)


----------



## Stocking

So, for Christmas I'll be asking for a Blue Yeti and a pair of headphones that I haven't decided yet. From this list, I'm in between a Grado SR225i and an Ultrasone PRO 550. You may notice that one is more of an Electronic one while one is more Metal - I love both genres to death, and at the top of my Most Played list are Bright Eyes, The Pillows, Linked Horizon, The Postal Service, Owl City, and Two Door Cinema Club. I honestly couldn't say I listen to one more. The Grado's description says they seem to be balanced, so would they be great for both? I want something that would be fantastic for both (especially since I'm spending that price) Also, I'm not too sure about how comfortable the Grado's would be for me, as I have a big head and ears, plus I'm very used to my comfy G930's closed style (although, I don't really like them much otherwise, thus why I'm upgrading) So, yeah - I'd like to be <$300 with the headphones and Yeti combined, so that means a < or =$200 headphone pair, and preferably a fairly comfy one for my big head/ears? Thanks all.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I wanting to get a similar but slighter lower class setup this winter. Thinking of the ATR 2500 and Sr60i.


----------



## Simca

Highly recommend against the Yeti. It's such an enormous sucker. Doesn't look great and the recording quality is sub par for it's price.

I highly recommend the Grado SR225i's if those bands you listed are what you listen to. The headphones should have enough bass to get you by on electronic music if you only listen to electronic occasionally.

If you do require strong bass though, I suggest the DT770s over the Pro 550s.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quick question, the Samson Go Mic do they make pop filters to go on it or is it only the ones that clamp onto the desk?

Thanks


----------



## Simca

One does not come with or is sold separately for the Samson Go Mic, but that only makes sense as there needs to be some distances between the mic, the pop filter and your mouth as the screen stops the wind effect of P's and other consonants from hitting the mic and sounding terrible.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Ah ok

Thanks


----------



## blado

I was thinking about getting the Creative Sound Blaster Z along with the Audio Technica AD700 for gaming and music, but it seems the AD700 has drastically increased in price. Are there any websites left that would be willing to sell it for 100, or should I start looking at retail stores? Every expensive headphone/headset I've ever owned has broken within a year, so I'm somewhat nervous to go after the AD700x, which apparently has a slightly cheaper build quality. Thanks for any help







.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blado*
> 
> I was thinking about getting the Creative Sound Blaster Z along with the Audio Technica AD700 for gaming and music, but it seems the AD700 has drastically increased in price. Are there any websites left that would be willing to sell it for 100, or should I start looking at retail stores? Every expensive headphone/headset I've ever owned has broken within a year, so I'm somewhat nervous to go after the AD700x, which apparently has a slightly cheaper build quality. Thanks for any help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


AD700 is discontinued so no wonder the price is high.


----------



## worx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blado*
> 
> I was thinking about getting the Creative Sound Blaster Z along with the Audio Technica AD700 for gaming and music, but it seems the AD700 has drastically increased in price. Are there any websites left that would be willing to sell it for 100, or should I start looking at retail stores? Every expensive headphone/headset I've ever owned has broken within a year, so I'm somewhat nervous to go after the AD700x, which apparently has a slightly cheaper build quality. Thanks for any help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


AD700's are great for competitive gaming but are bass anemic for certain genres of music. AD700'x should be sonically similar to the AD700 but with different pads, cable, color, wings, etc).


----------



## Steelvans

Is there a better headset than Denon AH-D600 at that price range? I play games and also like listening to music and like decent bass as well.

My previous one was Ultrasone PRO 550. I want something that is somewhat similar and better than this.


----------



## Simca

See my PM.


----------



## ChaosAD

I just sold my XFi Titanium Fatality Pro. So i m interestes to buy a new one that will be an upgrade. At first i was thinking to go with the SBZ which cost around 80e. My other thought is to go with XFi Titanium HD, which cost around 140e, but what keeps me back is that its rather old. I ll never use headphones, i just use the speakers in my sig (Aktimate Mini). I m mostly in the 50-50 category (metal music/games). What do you think?


----------



## Simca

Consider an external DAC such as the HRT Streamer II.


----------



## pac08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pac08*
> 
> Hey guys i'm thinking about finally replacing my HARX 700s and i would appreciate any recommendations (I'm going to pair them up with my Soundblaster Z). The usage will be 60% (sometimes even more) competitive fps gaming and 40% music (mostly house music). At first i was going to choose between the Beyerdynamic DT 990s or the 770s but some unexpected expenses came up so i could use the extra cash. My budget is around 100$ (you can use amazon.com as reference or any reliable shop in the NYC area, since i'll be visiting next week)


bump


----------



## pelle328

Thoughts on the SENNHEISER PX 360 any good thinking about picking them up for $50

Note 3


----------



## Simca

For $50 it's not a bad pair of headphones. Ultimately it depends what you're looking for from them. It's a passive noise cancellation set of headphones with average bass, depending on how much of a bass lover you are. Comfort is average. Depends on the size of your ears and head. As far as around the ear is concerned it's circumaural, but just barely. It's got a pretty tight grip on your head and if you have a large head might seem a bit too grippy. It's excellent for on the go. Has sparkly treble. Soundstage is adequate. This isn't a wonderfully efficient headphone. It could use an amp, but not for extracting volume, but for improving performance.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Anyone know if the AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones headphones are any good?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> Anyone know if the AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones headphones are any good?


In a general sense, yes. It really depends on a few things though:

1. Your budget?
2. Your musical tastes?
3. Your buying options?
4. Amp or no amp?
5. Sound card/DAC or no?

Like the K701, it is rather neutral and sterile sounding (trebles almost sound artificial sometimes) and the bass while accurate, is kind of flat and anemic. The midrange is somewhat full, but IMO lacks life. It also definitely needs a decent amp to really shine though I used a K701 to pretty good results on an Asus Xonar DG.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> In a general sense, yes. It really depends on a few things though:
> 
> 1. Your budget?
> 2. Your musical tastes?
> 3. Your buying options?
> 4. Amp or no amp?
> 5. Sound card/DAC or no?
> 
> Like the K701, it is rather neutral and sterile sounding (trebles almost sound artificial sometimes) and the bass while accurate, is kind of flat and anemic. The midrange is somewhat full, but IMO lacks life. It also definitely needs a decent amp to really shine though I used a K701 to pretty good results on an Asus Xonar DG.


1 issue isn't a budget... I work for Harman, Harman owns AKG... so they are cheap.
2 All of the above, Rap, Techno, Classic Rock, Metal
3 buying options? I'll buy direct..
4 probably at this time no amp. although I do have a few Gigabyte boards with the o-amps and gimmick audio stuff on it.

I was just kinda curious on the Q701's since I was going to buy 6 sets, wondered if they were decent in comparison to my modded JVC HA-RX900's


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> 1 issue isn't a budget... I work for Harman, Harman owns AKG... so they are cheap.
> 2 All of the above, Rap, Techno, Classic Rock, Metal
> 3 buying options? I'll buy direct..
> 4 probably at this time no amp. although I do have a few Gigabyte boards with the o-amps and gimmick audio stuff on it.
> 
> I was just kinda curious on the Q701's since I was going to buy 6 sets, wondered if they were decent in comparison to my modded JVC HA-RX900's


1. Ok so company discount then, meaning you are wanting to only buy from that company?

2. Rap is a subjective no on the Q701 for me. Rap likes big bloated mid-bass thumps and lots of sub-bass. The Q701 lacks both. Techno is a pretty decent listening experience as is rock, especially if you like guitarists that dabble a lot in the high end. I don't listen to metal much so I can't really remember how they sounded on them. I can tell you however that EDM is kind of a no go. The lack of booty, however sculpted, does not do it for EDM and rap for me.

3. Direct meaning only from HK, JBL, and AKG?

4. If no amp, I would suggest the K550. They can easily run off portable devices as they are really efficient, have much greater bass presence than the Q701, look much better and are way more comfortable, and still has pretty darn good soundstage being closed. That said, they are still not bottom heavy and are hardly good options if you listen to primarily songs that revolve around bass. I would say I personally feel like they sound the best in the AKG line though and is their best "all-rounder" so to say.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> 1 issue isn't a budget... I work for Harman, Harman owns AKG... so they are cheap.
> 2 All of the above, Rap, Techno, Classic Rock, Metal
> 3 buying options? I'll buy direct..
> 4 probably at this time no amp. although I do have a few Gigabyte boards with the o-amps and gimmick audio stuff on it.
> 
> I was just kinda curious on the Q701's since I was going to buy 6 sets, wondered if they were decent in comparison to my modded JVC HA-RX900's


AKG Q701 isn't the best headphone for the genres of music you listen to.


----------



## bumblebee1980

if you don't mind buying from another company.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Custom-One-Pro-Black/dp/B008XEYT48/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385679118&sr=8-2


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Thanks for the input... I'll grab 1 pair Q701 and a couple K550's

@bumblebee1980 I'll check into those, there is just a concern that i can buy 10 pairs for Q701's for the price of those Custom One Pros.
Benefits of working for Harman I guess.... Thx..


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeCuztoms*
> 
> Thanks for the input... I'll grab 1 pair Q701 and a couple K550's
> 
> @bumblebee1980 I'll check into those, there is just a concern that i can buy 10 pairs for Q701's for the price of those Custom One Pros.
> Benefits of working for Harman I guess.... Thx..


AKG makes terrific headphones. The AKG Q701 is one of the best Mid-Fi headphones money can buy but.. it's best at reproducing genres like Classical and Jazz.

you could always buy custom shields for the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro and put "AKG" on them lol


----------



## hajabooja

I'm looking to upgrade my headphones. I'm currently using a pair of Sennheiser HD 555s with an X Fi Xtremegamer. I plan on also upgrading to a Sound Blaster Z (I believe). I'd like to stay around the $150 price range. I'm basically a FPS gamer. I listen to some music, but the main focus is gaming. Is there anything out there better than what I have within that price-range?

Thanks


----------



## Simca

How is that even possible to buy it that cheap. Does it seriously cost them nothing to produce? lmao.


----------



## blado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *worx*
> 
> AD700's are great for competitive gaming but are bass anemic for certain genres of music. AD700'x should be sonically similar to the AD700 but with different pads, cable, color, wings, etc).


I mainly listen to Pink Floyd and various other rock bands. I'm not really a huge fan of dubstep or anything. Would the AD700s be okay for that?


----------



## worx

They have decent mids, highs, and soundstage for the price, so they should be okay IMO. I used them mostly for FPS gaming when I had them, not much for music.


----------



## pac08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pac08*
> 
> Hey guys i'm thinking about finally replacing my HARX-700 and i would appreciate any recommendations (I'm going to pair them up with my Sound blaster Z). The usage will be 60% (sometimes even more) competitive fps gaming and 40% music (various genres but mostly house music). At first i was going to choose between the Beyerdynamic DT 990s or the 770s but some unexpected expenses came up so i could use the extra cash. My budget is around 100$ (you can use amazon.com as reference or any reliable shop in the NYC area, since i'll be visiting next week)


So far i 've managed to narrow down my search to:

Creative Aurvana Live (build quality isn't that good)
Audio Technica Ath-M50 (mediocre soundstage?)
Audio Technica Ath-A700x (a little bass light?)

Any feedback on these or other suggestions would be most welcome.


----------



## Simca

M50s poor soundstage ad700x very bass light.


----------



## pac08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> M50s poor soundstage ad700x very bass light.


Thanks Simca, much appreciated.


----------



## XtremeCuztoms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How is that even possible to buy it that cheap. Does it seriously cost them nothing to produce? lmao.


IDK.

I work in Infotainment for BMW, Ferrari, Chrysler and Fiat.


----------



## Simca

That's crazy man. would love to be able to purchase audio products at basement prices.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's crazy man. would love to be able to purchase audio products at basement prices.


Dudette, my friend is looking for a $100-$150 price range. Mostly music. What would you recommend with today black friday?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Dudette, my friend is looking for a $100-$150 price range. Mostly music. What would you recommend with today black friday?


1. What type of music does your friend listen to?
2. Are your friend's ears sensitive to high pitched sounds?
3. Do you prefer the thumping in bass or the rumbling?
4. Does your friend have an amp?
5. Does your friend have a DAC or sound card? If sound card, does it have an amp?


----------



## djriful

1. Vocal, Pop, Jazz, Electronics

2. Nope

3. No preferences

4. Onboard sounds

5. ^

He has no plan getting any soundcards or dac/amp.


----------



## Rar4f

For Ultimate Gamer: Which would be better, Aurvana Live or a AKG 518 DJ? AKG 518 DJ costs $40 while Aurvana costs 73$.
Sound card: Xonar DG.


----------



## jwolf24601

Last night I was about to play some Mechwarrior Online and I went to put on my headset and the cup broke off the band









I had Creative HS-900 and I was pretty happy with the sound.

I consider myself in the 50/50 gaming/music category. I listen to many types of music rock, dubstep, classical.

I am under budget constraints so trying to get the best I can for under $50. Looking at 50mm drivers since there's no replacement for displacement. Also want to make sure it's durable, I hate when things break.

These are the three I was looking at:
JVC HARX700
Panasonic RP-HTF600-S
Monoprice 108323


----------



## Simca

Samson SR850s are the best headphones you'll buy for $50 and meeting most of your needs. Downsides to this headphone are build construction and comfort.

Alternative would be the RX700s with worse sound quality, muddier but more available bass and better build quality/comfort.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Samson SR850s are the best headphones you'll buy for $50 and meeting most of your needs. Downsides to this headphone are build construction and comfort.
> 
> Alternative would be the RX700s with worse sound quality, muddier but more available bass and better build quality/comfort.


Btw, I hear that the sonic differences between HD668B and SR850 are nonexistent. True?


----------



## jwolf24601

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Btw, I hear that the sonic differences between HD668B and SR850 are nonexistent. True?


Those look durable, metal bands and replaceable cord. If they sound that good, could be a winner


----------



## Simca

I was pretty certain the Samson SR850 was a rebranded 668B.


----------



## jwolf24601

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I was pretty certain the Samson SR850 was a rebranded 668B.


From the reviews I read that seems to be the case, think I will go with those, thanks for the help and advice


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So got my Samson Go Mic, its overkill for Teamspeak and gaming I know but it sounds awesome and the cheapo windscreen thing I got cuts out my fan completely even in omni, my fans less then 1m away running 100%







. Also my god I knew it was small but daaaaaamn

Now its just finding a place for it where I wont lose it


----------



## tx-jose

So after a few days of owning the Creative Zx with my AD700s that I have had for a few months I want more. I am now looking at the AKG Q 701s.....but I see that an AMP is needed. Does my sound card have it or do I have to get an external one and my soundcard is now useless or do they have to be used in tandem? I dont get that part of the setup process


----------



## OC'ing Noob

If that 600 ohm output impedance is accurate, then they will have no trouble driving any of the K/Q 70X models.


----------



## Simca

Ocing noob, for shame. Makers of audio term lists should know a sound card amp will not drive headphones.

Will you be able to listen to your headphones, yes, but the akg headphones are best left to a proper headphone amp.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> So after a few days of owning the Creative Zx with my AD700s that I have had for a few months I want more. I am now looking at the AKG Q 701s.....but I see that an AMP is needed. Does my sound card have it or do I have to get an external one and my soundcard is now useless or do they have to be used in tandem? I dont get that part of the setup process


I have Zx with Q701, I plug my headphone directly at the soundcard and not using the external volume control. I can tell you the volume right now I set at is 18%. If you go beyond 26%, you're going to be death.

The soundcard has the power to drive any headphones up to 300Ω even I know it supports 600Ω. Q701 is only 62Ω, smartphone is able to drive it too but it needs to max it out the volume.


----------



## coolhandluke41

Made myself a present for Xmas,(Beyerdynamic DT-880 Pro Headphones (250 Ohm) hopefully I won't be disappointed ..there are few reviews on head-fi forum complaining about the treble ..hopefully it's not the right amp..any complains from you guys ??
BTW Aune T1 USB Tube DAC+Amp will come with it (Wednesday







)


----------



## Simca

You can search for my DT880 review or it's in my signature, I forgot.

Another deal for you guys.

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/108200/buydig---audio-technica-ath-m50-headphones-coiled-cable-91-straight-cable

ATM50s for 91 straight cable. CMJAM code.

____________________________________________

Made a few changes to the OP.


----------



## tx-jose

i'm not scared to spend $100 on a little amp. Im just wondering if I need my sound card or how does all of this work...im new to the audio game guys so go easy on me









The amp that's recommended in the OP is the one I'm looking at. ok so my question is how do I hook it all up to absolutely blow me away?? Sound card can be put in my sister machine anywa iuf its not needed...she will be getting my AD700s when i get the AKGs....they will be my Christmas present from me to me as well as the amp but I need to know how I'm going to do it.....so I can kill 2 birds with one stone with my sisters audio setup.


----------



## Simca

The schiit magni will connect to your sound card via rca. I wouldn't recommend the magni for the akg headphones though as the magni seems to limit your soundstage so you won't be getting the most out of the headphone. It would still give you all your volume needs but so would your soundcard. Finding the right amp for the akg is important but so is the amount you want to spend.

If you don't want to spend a bunch go with the cheap schiit until you can afford better. I would not recommend a fiio amp like many at headfi will. The schiit should be better than the sound card.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The schiit magni will connect to your sound card via rca. I wouldn't recommend the magni for the akg headphones though as the magni seems to limit your soundstage so you won't be getting the most out of the headphone. It would still give you all your volume needs but so would your soundcard. Finding the right amp for the akg is important but so is the amount you want to spend.
> 
> If you don't want to spend a bunch go with the cheap schiit until you can afford better. I would not recommend a fiio amp like many at headfi will. The schiit should be better than the sound card.


Would you recommend o2 amp for AKG Q701 soundstage?


----------



## Simca

O2 has a larger soundstage and better bass than the Schiit Magni, so I would say yes, that would be a better choice if you can fork out another 50.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

O2 was my first "desktop" amp and I really liked it personally myself. Never head the Magni though.


----------



## Nukemaster

Very nice list.

I still have my old Koss KSC75(used 3 pairs over the years, but at the price, I do not worry if they end up meeting a untimely death) and actually find them to be my favorite portable headphones.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> O2 has a larger soundstage and better bass than the Schiit Magni, so I would say yes, that would be a better choice if you can fork out another 50.


Source: Simca?


----------



## Simca

How does one source what they hear?

Go do your own research on the matter if you disagree with me.

If you mean am I the source? Then, yes, I am the source.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How does one source what they hear?
> 
> Go do your own research on the matter if you disagree with me.
> 
> If you mean am I the source? Then, yes, I am the source.


It was a joke from your last few post about Source: My Source. Calm down... I'm not disagreeing anything.:c


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> It was a joke from your last few post about Source: My Source. Calm down... I'm not disagreeing anything.:c


~Snaps your neck and tosses you into a river.~

Moving on.


----------



## tx-jose

Thanks for the imput guys!!
I dont mind spending more as long as its worth it. This setup is for like 99% gaming thays why I am looking at the AKGs


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nukemaster*
> 
> Very nice list.
> 
> I still have my old Koss KSC75(used 3 pairs over the years, but at the price, I do not worry if they end up meeting a untimely death) and actually find them to be my favorite portable headphones.


Have you done any mods to them? i also owned a pair a few years ago. It was my initial drug to audio and headphones


----------



## Emfunksis

Sorry if this question has been covered sometime before. But, why are headphones noticeably worse than headsets? Do they suck in audio quality compared to the headset you can get for equally or slightly less in price? Or is it just straight up build quality in comparison? This actually strikes me as quite an odd subject, essentially, headphones are just headsets with a mic.

With that out of the way what would you recommend now for someone who wants a headset/mic combo for say, $200 or less total. Wouldn't consider myself a "hardcore" gamer, say, 70% gaming/30% music.


----------



## Simca

I think the PC360 is a fantastic headset. It does what headsets should do, but don't.

Headsets either use poor drivers or have a combination of a mediocre driver and poor enclosure/construction. This combines to put out really crappy sound. Even worse is when they stuff 7 speakers in a single cup making each driver less and less effective for sound quality, detail etc..

Pretty much any "gamer" headset is going to be crap tier compared to a $50 headphone.

PC360s and a few others being exceptions...but They're done by an audiophile company that knows how to make a headphone so that could be a huge part of it.


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I think the PC360 is a fantastic headset. It does what headsets should do, but don't.
> 
> Headsets either use poor drivers or have a combination of a mediocre driver and poor enclosure/construction. This combines to put out really crappy sound. Even worse is when they stuff 7 speakers in a single cup making each driver less and less effective for sound quality, detail etc..
> 
> Pretty much any "gamer" headset is going to be crap tier compared to a $50 headphone.
> 
> PC360s and a few others being exceptions...but They're done by an audiophile company that knows how to make a headphone so that could be a huge part of it.


+1
I recently discovered the Sennheiser PC 333D, not as good as the 360 but it blows out of the water most "gaming" headsets


----------



## djriful

I wonder if I can go this way:

Modi DAC + O2 AMP.

$250 total.

Or just buy O2+ODAC combo $280


----------



## Simca

230 on Massdrop.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *musicPC*
> 
> +1
> I recently discovered the Sennheiser PC 333D, not as good as the 360 but it blows out of the water most "gaming" headsets


99% of the headsets are pieces of crap designed to rob money from poor (I guess sometimes rich too), unsuspecting gamers.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emfunksis*
> 
> Sorry if this question has been covered sometime before. But, why are headphones noticeably worse than headsets? Do they suck in audio quality compared to the headset you can get for equally or slightly less in price? Or is it just straight up build quality in comparison? This actually strikes me as quite an odd subject, essentially, headphones are just headsets with a mic.
> 
> With that out of the way what would you recommend now for someone who wants a headset/mic combo for say, $200 or less total. Wouldn't consider myself a "hardcore" gamer, say, 70% gaming/30% music.


I think you got that the other way around. ALL headsets are substantially worse than comparatively priced headphones made by GOOD companies. A headset is basically headphones with an integrated mic. The integrated mic wastes money "designing" and building, so manufacturers charge a price that does not reflect audio quality at all. The vast majority of audiophiles will tell if you to get a nice pair of headphones and a dedicated mic instead.


----------



## Blindrage606

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> 99% of the headsets are pieces of crap designed to rob money from poor (I guess sometimes rich too), unsuspecting gamers.


Love those Denon cans you sold off a while ago, think I may just plan on keeping them...


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindrage606*
> 
> Love those Denon cans you sold off a while ago, think I may just plan on keeping them...


I could have sworn I sold them to another member, but $320 for heavily modded Denon D2K's were a helluva deal. If you bought them 2nd hand and are merely quoting me to tell me you are loving them, then awesome! Glad you are enjoying them!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I could have sworn I sold them to another member, but $320 for heavily modded Denon D2K's were a helluva deal. If you bought them 2nd hand and are merely quoting me to tell me you are loving them, then awesome! Glad you are enjoying them!


Oh you did buy them! Any reason why you are selling them?


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 230 on Massdrop.


This?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/o2-headphone-amp-dac?s=dac

Bummer, they only offer to US.


----------



## Simca

Is there a reason you posted the Aune T1.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Is there a reason you posted the Aune T1.


No... but end up in the search result.


----------



## Nukemaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *musicPC*
> 
> +1
> I recently discovered the Sennheiser PC 333D, not as good as the 360 but it blows out of the water most "gaming" headsets


I did not. I have seen the Kramer Mod, but I just use it for probable listening and have been fine with the way they sound.

With my set so old. I may try something when I get some more. I mean I do not even have half of the spikes that hold the foam on any more(the most of leaving them in my pockets.).

Either way, they have served me well.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

does this http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/cambridge-audio/topaz-sr10/camb-sr10-blk work as a headphone amplifier?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> does this http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/cambridge-audio/topaz-sr10/camb-sr10-blk work as a headphone amplifier?


If a receiver has a headphone jack, then typically yes in my experience. Whether or not it is a separate integrated headphone amp however is a different story.


----------



## Simca

When you use a receiver as an amp, you're also using it as a DAC AFAIK.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> When you use a receiver as an amp, you're also using it as a DAC AFAIK.


I'll be using a separate DAC.

Thinking of picking up a decent set of cans to replace my rather ancient JVC HA-D510s








Probably looking to spend up to about £80 - probably about 60% Gaming, 40% music (quite a lot of house and drum and bass, but some rock too)

I was thinking something like these http://www.richersounds.com/product/all-headphones/grado/sr60i/grad-sr60
or is it worth squeezing some extra for something along the lines of these? http://www.richersounds.com/product/all-headphones/akg/k490-nc/akg-k490


----------



## Simca

How do you just use the amp portion of a receiver without the DAC?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How do you just use the amp portion of a receiver without the DAC?


What do you mean? my set up will be
optical from PC>dac->receiver


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How do you just use the amp portion of a receiver without the DAC?


Couldn't he connect his DAC to the receiver via RCA and bypass the receiver's DAC? I thought it only uses the DAC if you connect using digital and the receiver HAS to cover it.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Couldn't he connect his DAC to the receiver via RCA and bypass the receiver's DAC? I thought it only uses the DAC if you connect using digital and the receiver HAS to cover it.


Yes that's what's gonna happen, because the receiver doesn't have a built in DAC


----------



## LinkPro

That's right, using RCA to go from the DAC to the receiver will bypass the receiver's DAC since RCA is pure analog.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Thus enabling me to use the front 1/4" headphone jack!








Which brings me back to the question at hand - What's a good set of headphones for gaming and music up to about £100? I want a decent sound stage with some punchy controlled bass


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Thus enabling me to use the front 1/4" headphone jack!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which brings me back to the question at hand - What's a good set of headphones for gaming and music up to about £100? I want a decent sound stage with some punchy controlled bass


You might want to send a quick PM to Totally Dubbed. He listens to a lot of headphones and lives in the UK so he will be more up to date on UK pricing than those of us who live on the other side of the pond


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> You might want to send a quick PM to Totally Dubbed. He listens to a lot of headphones and lives in the UK so he will be more up to date on UK pricing than those of us who live on the other side of the pond


I don't think I'll message him, I may or may not have been among a few people that caused him to leave the British Overclockers Club after telling him where to shove his god complex attitude.

I think my budget probably equates to about $150ish. Is there like a 'can't go wrong' sort of set that can be recommended?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> I don't think I'll message him, I may or may not have been among a few people that caused him to leave the British Overclockers Club after telling him where to shove his god complex attitude.
> 
> I think my budget probably equates to about $150ish. Is there like a 'can't go wrong' sort of set that can be recommended?


Sorry to hear about those issues you guys might have had.

The problem is, it doesn't appear that prices properly convert between the US and UK. I believe things usually sell for a bit more than they would here. At $150 USD, only the Audio-Technica M50 jumps to mind as being a great choice. There are also the Beyerdynamic cans that drop to that price range during sales every now and then. There are others, like the AD700 which has really good soudstage, but the bass is absolute crap. There is also the Sony MDR-V6, but I consider the M50 a better headphones.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> When you use a receiver as an amp, you're also using it as a DAC AFAIK.


receivers have analog inputs too.

edit: also people in the UK often call amplifiers "receivers"


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> receivers have analog inputs too.
> 
> edit: also people in the UK often call amplifiers "receivers"


Oh I wondered where the confusion was.

In the UK, an amplifier becomes a receiver once it had a radio built in


----------



## Bloitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> receivers have analog inputs too.
> 
> edit: also people in the UK often call amplifiers "receivers"


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Oh I wondered where the confusion was.
> 
> In the UK, an amplifier becomes a receiver once it had a radio built in


Pretty much everywhere AFAIK








People usually just call them amplifiers here in Belgium.

I just want to add that some of those amplifiers/ receivers heavily colour the headphone output. Might be worth testing out and picking a headphone that perhaps offsets any colouration. Personally I love the sound I get with my Sansui AU -4400 (Amp from '74-'75) and my HD598 but when I hook it up to my fathers Denon something, it definitely sounds a bit clearer (tone controls on 0 of course) .


----------



## senna89

Im searching a good 2.1 system, i came from a old and super cheaper Techsolo and i bought yesterday a new cheaper system, Pleomax S2 600B but the new system feel horrible and crap, subwoofer è EXTREMELLY strong compared to speakers, PATETIC SOUND ALL AROUND ( game, music and film but *specially race game where the engine sound sound like fart continues* ) !!!!

So im searching now a good quality product, im thinking to S330D but the small speakers can be hited by Subwoofer ?

I generally play with FPS and Race games ( 90% ), less music and films, and *i prefer system where the bass can be setted and at minimum feels almost totally deleted*


----------



## Nukemaster

So you want to remove the bass?

Depending on the speakers input impedance(well the amp not the speakers them selves) you can add an appropriate capacitor that will act as a high pass filter cutting down bass under a certain frequency. 0.1uf takes a real chunk out(maybe too much) at 10k in. but this cuts it right out(you have a roll off portion that it gets lowered, but too far under it will just go away), it does not change it or make it more quiet.


----------



## senna89

all product permit to set the bass / treble and volume ok ?

yet some product when you set the bass to minimun si even so HIGH


----------



## .theMetal

Question for the experts. I'm looking for a new headset. I know headsets are not recommended but hear me out. I am currently using these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826265064 pretty meh right? My standards are low. I'm miles from being an audiophile, I just game.

For what I need they do fine. I have razer surround, and I can hear people running up behind me and where the gun shots are coming from which is plenty awesome for me.

Two reasons I am wanting something different. 1) These things way over a pound. 2) I am constantly snagging the cord on my chair.

Which brings me to my request. I want something wireless and light weight and definitely need circumaural . Also under $100 and on newegg (have some gift certificates)

Maybe you can give me some suggestions?


----------



## Simca

If you absolutely need wireless the Logitech G930s are probably your best bet. If you want to put another $30 down the Skullcandy PLYR2s are better.


----------



## .theMetal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If you absolutely need wireless the Logitech G930s are probably your best bet. If you want to put another $30 down the Skullcandy PLYR2s are better.


Thanks for the reply Simca. So I'm guessing the turtle beach stuff is pretty worthless? I saw a pretty good deal on the px3's. I had a chance to try them on they fit and felt so comfee. I resisted so I could get on here and ask before I bought.


----------



## Simca

I haven't tried every TB headset out there, but the ones I have tried I've hated.


----------



## .theMetal

Gotcha, thanks much.


----------



## Frosch

Simca, do you recommend the Takstar Pro 80? A guy in my local forum said that it's the best bang for the buck, since ad700 is actually too expensive here


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Simca, do you recommend the Takstar Pro 80? A guy in my local forum said that it's the best bang for the buck, since ad700 is actually too expensive here


- Budget?
- Alternative options?
- Music preference?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Simca, do you recommend the Takstar Pro 80? A guy in my local forum said that it's the best bang for the buck, since ad700 is actually too expensive here


Haven't gotten around to reviewing that headphone yet so I can't comment. Headfi likes the headphone but I also know Headfi falls for hype ask the time.


----------



## steelbom

Hey guys I'm looking at grabbing some over-the-ear headphones soon. I don't know much about them at all.

I'm after something <$200 (but cheaper is better) that will be used for watching TV -- anime, almost exclusively.

It will also be used for online study classes (people talking) but I figure almost any headphones would be fine for that -- or am I wrong? And also gaming and music, but neither of those take any precedence at all.

I'm also curious about if wireless headphones are any good? Is there any delay over a distance of 5 metres or so?


----------



## Simca

No delay with wireless headsets. Just lower SQ.

I'd actually just recommend a $50 headphone for your needs. If you really want to spend that $200 though, the HD598s would probably be fantastic headphones for your needs.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No delay with wireless headsets. Just lower SQ.
> 
> I'd actually just recommend a $50 headphone for your needs. If you really want to spend that $200 though, the HD598s would probably be fantastic headphones for your needs.


I have a feeling I'm asking a really basic question here (lol) but what's SQ? (Gunna guess "Sound Quality") -- if that's correct, why is that?

I think $50 sounds great. I wasn't sure how much I would need to spend but less is better. Any particular brand that's good?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I have a feeling I'm asking a really basic question here (lol) but what's SQ? (Gunna guess "Sound Quality") -- if that's correct, why is that?
> 
> I think $50 sounds great. I wasn't sure how much I would need to spend but less is better. Any particular brand that's good?


- Wireless transmission is susceptible to interference and data signal loss
- Battery and receiver add unnecessary weight and design space and time
- Transmitter usually needs a battery too or drains the source power very quickly
- Audiophiles prefer wired for the same reason gamers do, wired is faster, more consistent, and reliable,


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> - Wireless transmission is susceptible to interference and data loss
> - Battery and receiver add unnecessary weight and design space and time
> - Transmitter usually needs a battery too or drains the source power very quickly
> - Audiophiles prefer wired for the same reason gamers do, wired is faster, more consistent, and reliable,


Thanks for the info!

I think wired sounds best. But then the issue is that I may sit up to 5 metres from the TV -- do they even make headphones with that much cord?!


----------



## LinkPro

SQ stands for sound quality.

IIRC the HD 598's cord goes up to 3 meter since it's straight, however it's possible to get an extension cable. Coiled cables can go up to 10 meters so I don't think you have to worry too much.


----------



## Simca

I'd recommend the Creative Aurvana Lives. They'd probably be best all around for your needs.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> SQ stands for sound quality.
> 
> IIRC the HD 598's cord goes up to 3 meter since it's straight, however it's possible to get an extension cable. Coiled cables can go up to 10 meters so I don't think you have to worry too much.


Ah sweet. Oh duh! Of course you can. Silly me. Thanks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'd recommend the Creative Aurvana Lives. They'd probably be best all around for your needs.


Brilliant. Much appreciated I'll check them out!


----------



## blado

I just got a creative sound blaster z and plan to pair it with an HD 598 around christmas. I love the wireless on my Corsair Vengeance 2000, but the constant breaking has driven me insane. I'm assuming there will be a big difference once I finally get everything set up. I was considering the 558, but I wanted that extra difference.


----------



## benjamen50

I'm using Sennheiser HD 518's here, pretty decent in sound quality.


----------



## steelbom

I was going to purchase the Aurvana Live for $80 + ($15 shipping) but ended up going with the Live 2 for $130 (free shipping.)

I Googled around and people who had used both said that it was slightly larger and more comfortable, had a better soundstage and was much more refined. It's also got a built in microphone which I may be able to use... we'll see.

I've been using Apple in-ear headphones until now and I'm expecting this will be a lot better. (Hopefully the mic will be too, even though it's only inline.)

Yay so excited!


----------



## Singledigit

Hey everyone, I just saw these on sale on Newegg for $70 and had great reviews.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290200

Seems like i might get these but I need some help about getting an amp/receiver to hook them up to my computer. Any suggestions? Not sure how much amps/receivers cost but would not like to spend too much. Not sure if prices ranges make a huge difference on quality, I dont know much audio equipment. Or would a sounds card be able to do this?


----------



## materi

Hi, i'm looking for a wireless headset/headphones in the 200-400 dollar class. i game quite alot, but not to much FPS so footsteps and similar is not truly that important. i also watch loads of series and listen to alot of music soo it's more important with sound quality than gaming for my part. i know wired are most likly alot better, but i am seated 4-5 meters from my screen (saw the last post about the pc 518 with extended cable, but might stillbe a problem) and i dont like the cable messes...

thanks in advanced =D


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I was going to purchase the Aurvana Live for $80 + ($15 shipping) but ended up going with the Live 2 for $130 (free shipping.)
> 
> I Googled around and people who had used both said that it was slightly larger and more comfortable, had a better soundstage and was much more refined. It's also got a built in microphone which I may be able to use... we'll see.
> 
> I've been using Apple in-ear headphones until now and I'm expecting this will be a lot better. (Hopefully the mic will be too, even though it's only inline.)
> 
> Yay so excited!


Nice! Those CAL! 2s do look nice.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Nice! Those CAL! 2s do look nice.


Haha thanks. Yeah I'm super excited. First headphone purchase. I'm counting the minutes... (too bad it takes like a week or so to get here.)


----------



## Simca




----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Singledigit*
> 
> Hey everyone, I just saw these on sale on Newegg for $70 and had great reviews.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290200
> 
> Seems like i might get these but I need some help about getting an amp/receiver to hook them up to my computer. Any suggestions? Not sure how much amps/receivers cost but would not like to spend too much. Not sure if prices ranges make a huge difference on quality, I dont know much audio equipment. Or would a sounds card be able to do this?


They were $70 no rebate the other day. I would wait.


----------



## Bloitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> They were $70 no rebate the other day. I would wait.


Personnally, I never buy new stuff at this moment. After Christmas / New Year there are usually better deals (also an uprise of second-hand stuff). So unless you really want it now, or if it's a gift, I would just wait until after the holidays


----------



## materi

simca, do you know how much better the platinums are over the golds? cinda want them both =D but i am going the choose the one with best audio quility if the price premium is'nt to great


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *materi*
> 
> simca, do you know how much better the platinums are over the golds? cinda want them both =D but i am going the choose the one with best audio quility if the price premium is'nt to great


don't have any info for you on the new cals yet, sorry.


----------



## Lubed Up Slug

Do external sound cards provide as good quality of sound as internal ones? I sort of want to be able to use a sound card, if I get one, with my laptop, but if they are not even worth it, I might as well get an internal one.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lubed Up Slug*
> 
> Do external sound cards provide as good quality of sound as internal ones? I sort of want to be able to use a sound card, if I get one, with my laptop, but if they are not even worth it, I might as well get an internal one.


I never used an external sound card, but I do use an external DAC. From an external DAC POV, I want to say that the straight audio quality sounds waaaaay better than any sound card that I have owned. You also don't have to worry about any internal interference, though USB interference is still a possibility.


----------



## mikeaj

USB is not as good and robust an interface as say PCI and PCIe, but that just means that sometimes people have issues with audio dropouts on certain systems sometimes. (for realtime applications like audio; okay, it depends on USB transfer mode too and so on, but we're talking about most external sound cards here I would think)

As for the actual audio quality, as mentioned above, you can get away from EMI inside the computer. That can help, but that depends on the system you'd put an internal card in.

Some external audio interfaces just use USB bus power, while others plug into the wall.

Actually, there exist FireWire audio devices, but who uses those these days?

Some people are kind of down on external sound cards from the usual internal sound card brands, but I don't much think there's good justification for that. Just get something with the feature set you need.


----------



## materi

yeah, probably going to buy the platinums anyway, they look sexy =D and hopefully sound great, at least 1000X better then my current audio solution...


----------



## Tom114

Hey guys,
I'm currently using 2 old 20W Philips speakers from a stereo set in combination with an old JVC MXD302T stereo set amplifier all of this connected to my onboard sound from my PC. I want to replace the JVC amplifier with a simple amplifier that I can place on my desk. I'm a cheap-ass so I want to get the best for as little money possible, I'm also not really an audiophile. I was looking at the Dayton DTA-1 and similar amps. Now here comes a problem around the corner (I think?); my Philips speakers have 3 ohm speakers... Do I also need new speakers for this?


----------



## aksthem1

You would probably be fine at 3 ohms, but the lower the nominal ohm on the speaker can damage the amp. The DTA-1 is rated for 4 ohms. Some amps or receivers are 8 ohms and at 3 ohms so it would probably burn out some of those.


----------



## DrGroove

It also depends on how efficient the speakers are. If they are inefficient and require more power to reach a good volume then that, combined with running lower ohm speakers, could draw too much current and overheat or blow the amp.

Also, if you look at the specs of the DTA-1 it can only push 10W per channel with acceptable THD. At its full 15W you get 10% THD, which would sound like garbage.


----------



## steelbom

Would anyone mind educating me on these few things?
Quote:


> Frequency Response (for headphones)
> 10Hz ~ 30KHz
> 
> Impedance: 32ohms
> 
> Microphone
> Frequency Response: 100Hz ~ 10kHz
> Sensitivity: - 42dBV / Pa
> Impedance: 2.2 kohms


What's the lower and upperbound in frequency response, impedance, and sensitivity? What do they mean?

Cheers


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What's the lower and upperbound in frequency response, impedance, and sensitivity? What do they mean?


The range like that means nothing, look at frequency response graphs if you want to get an idea of how something will sound.

TLDR of impedance is that lower impedance headphones/speakers require less voltage and more current. More sensitive headphones require less power to reach a certain volume.Most gaming headsets or headphones targeted at the average consumer are sensitive and low impedance so they can be driven by weak amps, such as a phone or onboard audio. Higher ohm headphones typically require more voltage, and therefore a dedicated amp. Output impedance of your amp should ideally be 1/8 or less the input impedance of the headphones.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> The range like that means nothing, look at frequency response graphs if you want to get an idea of how something will sound.
> 
> TLDR of impedance is that lower impedance headphones/speakers require less voltage and more current. More sensitive headphones require less power to reach a certain volume.Most gaming headsets or headphones targeted at the average consumer are sensitive and low impedance so they can be driven by weak amps, such as a phone or onboard audio. Higher ohm headphones typically require more voltage, and therefore a dedicated amp. Output impedance of your amp should ideally be 1/8 or less the input impedance of the headphones.


Ah, thank you. So you can't really compare those ranges to other offerings to get an idea of how good it is?


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ah, thank you. So you can't really compare those ranges to other offerings to get an idea of how good it is?


Not at all. You can't even hear above 20Khz and just because something says it goes down to 10Hz doesn't mean it isn't rolled off or distorted that low. Look up the headphones on sites like goldenears or innerfidelity


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Not at all. You can't even hear above 20Khz and just because something says it goes down to 10Hz doesn't mean it isn't rolled off or distorted that low. Look up the headphones on sites like goldenears or innerfidelity


I see, I see. Thanks!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I see, I see. Thanks!


We also have a really cool headphone club that you can find in my sig!


----------



## Simca

Eh, it's not that cool, actually.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> We also have a really cool headphone club that you can find in my sig!


I don't suppose you could link me? I have sigs turned off


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I don't suppose you could link me? I have sigs turned off


http://www.overclock.net/t/512436/ocn-headphones-and-earphones-club
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Eh, it's not that cool, actually.


Hush!


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/512436/ocn-headphones-and-earphones-club


Cheers! Just applied. The security question was hard... it nearly got me


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Cheers! Just applied. The security question was hard... it nearly got me


It's a tricky one indeed.


----------



## Tom114

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> It also depends on how efficient the speakers are. If they are inefficient and require more power to reach a good volume then that, combined with running lower ohm speakers, could draw too much current and overheat or blow the amp.
> 
> Also, if you look at the specs of the DTA-1 it can only push 10W per channel with acceptable THD. At its full 15W you get 10% THD, which would sound like garbage.


Ok, thanks. I just found out I still have the speakers that came with the JVC amplifier and those are 6 ohm. I found some more info on them:
*Speaker Specifications*
*SP-D302*
Type: _2-way, 2-speaker bass-reflex type speaker_
Tweeter: _5 cm (2 inches) cone × 1_
Woofer: _12 cm (4-3/4 inches) cone × 1_
Power Handling Capacity: _60 W_
Impedance: _6 ohms_
Frequency Range: _50 Hz - 20,000 Hz_
Sound Pressure _Level: 90 dB/w • m_
Dimensions: _215 × 315 × 230 mm (W/H/D)
(8-1/2 × 12-7/16 × 9-1/16 inches)_
Mass: _3.3 kg (7.3 lbs)_

Would these speakers be better if I used this with a DTA-1 or another amp? I also looked at the DTA-100A, but I can't seem to find it here in the Netherlands..


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom114*
> 
> Ok, thanks. I just found out I still have the speakers that came with the JVC amplifier and those are 6 ohm. I found some more info on them:
> *Speaker Specifications*
> *SP-D302*
> Type: _2-way, 2-speaker bass-reflex type speaker_
> Tweeter: _5 cm (2 inches) cone × 1_
> Woofer: _12 cm (4-3/4 inches) cone × 1_
> Power Handling Capacity: _60 W_
> Impedance: _6 ohms_
> Frequency Range: _50 Hz - 20,000 Hz_
> Sound Pressure _Level: 90 dB/w • m_
> Dimensions: _215 × 315 × 230 mm (W/H/D)
> (8-1/2 × 12-7/16 × 9-1/16 inches)_
> Mass: _3.3 kg (7.3 lbs)_
> 
> Would these speakers be better if I used this with a DTA-1 or another amp? I also looked at the DTA-100A, but I can't seem to find it here in the Netherlands..


Ah those are small and 6 ohm, should be fine with DTA-1 or lepai in a near field setup.


----------



## EternalRest

Anyone have Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X? I'm thinking about getting it along with the Sound Blaster Z sound card.


----------



## twerk

Could someone please recommend me a 2.0 or 2.1 speaker setup for under £200 please.

I would like them to be fairly small, the size of the Audioengine A2 is perfect but can be a tad larger if needed. If it exists I'd also like them to have an optical in, as I don't really want to fork out for a sound card or external DAC.

They'll be used for gaming and a variety of music but mainly EDM.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EternalRest*
> 
> Anyone have Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X? I'm thinking about getting it along with the Sound Blaster Z sound card.


I do own the AD700X. I use it for gaming mostly because of the large soundstage, the open-back design and general airiness (both in the way of sound and airflow). I do notice some hissing without anything being played in the background (this is my main gripe) but it could be either down to the sensitivity of the headphone itself or the fact that my Essence STX doesn't have a perfectly silent noise floor. Headphone is very comfortable for me, and it is an improvement on comfort over the original AD700. I would say the sound is refined a bit as well because the AD700 to me had scratchy vocals that were particularly noticeable on female artists.


----------



## Apolladan

any reason why the sennheiser 598's aren't listed in the OP

im currently looking to replace my 555's for like 80/20 gaming/music and on head-fi i read some posts where people actually preferred them to the $400 HD 650's

are the 598's significantly worse than beyerdynamic 880 dt's?


----------



## LinkPro

The 650 and the 598 are very different, so it's possible that some prefer the 598's somewhat bright and expansive sound.

The 880 should sound close to the 600 as neutrality is their goal. Vs 598 the 880 is technically the better one but I haven't heard both in a while so can't comment much on that.


----------



## Simca

Because you'd be better off getting a q701 at that price range.

People that make stupid claims saying they're better than 400 headphones are lying, stupid or talking out of their bums.


----------



## Apolladan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> *The 650 and the 598 are very different, so it's possible that some prefer the 598's somewhat bright and expansive sound.*
> 
> The 880 should sound close to the 600 as neutrality is their goal. Vs 598 the 880 is technically the better one but I haven't heard both in a while so can't comment much on that.


this is what i remember reading, they called it "technically better" but boring

as for the akg 701 i've heard they aren't as comfortable and comfort is super important to me since i never feel my current 555's


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Apolladan*
> 
> this is what i remember reading, they called it "technically better" but boring
> 
> as for the akg 701 i've heard they aren't as comfortable and comfort is super important to me since i never feel my current 555's


To get this out of the way first, you are not going to find any headphones better for gaming than the Q701 price range due to its huge, if muddled soundstage. It is debatable if find something superior even in the $400-500 price range. If you can stretch your budget, there is the DT990, which is better musically though I am not sure how it fairs in gaming. The AKG K550 is also in its price range and I consider it a closed Q701 essentially. It is more efficient, slightly less detailed and with smaller sound stage (possibly due to the higher efficiency and closed-back design) but I consider it much better looking and way more comfortable.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> To get this out of the way first, you are not going to find any headphones better for gaming than the Q701 price range due to its huge, if muddled soundstage. It is debatable if find something superior even in the $400-500 price range. If you can stretch your budget, there is the DT990, which is better musically though I am not sure how it fairs in gaming. The AKG K550 is also in its price range and I consider it a closed Q701 essentially. It is more efficient, slightly less detailed and with smaller sound stage (possibly due to the higher efficiency and closed-back design) but I consider it much better looking and way more comfortable.


I just ordered some of the Q701s - I have more hair than a gorilla on my head so the comfort should not be a problem - when I listened to them I fell in love


----------



## Magical Eskimo

So I emailed coconut audio's Christmas Santa as a joke because it said on the website you could get a free power cable. I never expected I would ever get anything.

Guess what arrived today.



I had to pick up a parcel from the sorting office and had no idea what it was.
Needless to say I may have looked like a madman laughing in my car when I opened it!
My dad is taking it in to his work tomorrow and he's going to have an electrical engineer look at it.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Just some regular old 12 or 14 gauge wire in some ridiculous thick coating. Nothing special.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Yeah pretty much.
It's got something in it though because when you bend it, it keeps the shape of the bend.
I Googled furutech and they are an actual "high end connector" manufacturer.


----------



## Simca

Let us know if you hear aliens


----------



## Magical Eskimo

I will. I can't wait to hear space crystals


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Apolladan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> *The 650 and the 598 are very different, so it's possible that some prefer the 598's somewhat bright and expansive sound.*
> 
> The 880 should sound close to the 600 as neutrality is their goal. Vs 598 the 880 is technically the better one but I haven't heard both in a while so can't comment much on that.
> 
> 
> 
> this is what i remember reading, they called it "technically better" but boring
> 
> as for the akg 701 i've heard they aren't as comfortable and comfort is super important to me since i never feel my current 555's
Click to expand...

Those people who said not comfortable, they are probably wearing it for the first week. The foam soften overtime and it will get comfortable. I can wear that headphone for over 12 hours no sweats or headaches over my closed Pioneer ones.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Apolladan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LinkPro*
> 
> *The 650 and the 598 are very different, so it's possible that some prefer the 598's somewhat bright and expansive sound.*
> 
> The 880 should sound close to the 600 as neutrality is their goal. Vs 598 the 880 is technically the better one but I haven't heard both in a while so can't comment much on that.
> 
> 
> 
> this is what i remember reading, they called it "technically better" but boring
> 
> as for the akg 701 i've heard they aren't as comfortable and comfort is super important to me since i never feel my current 555's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those people who said not comfortable, they are probably wearing it for the first week. The foam soften overtime and it will get comfortable. I can wear that headphone for over 12 hours no sweats or headaches over my closed Pioneer ones.
Click to expand...

If they're faux-leather, most people (myself included) find that it gets really hot in warm weather and makes the headphones uncomfortable.


----------



## grifftech

Hi all!

This is my first time in this forum, I am building a new gaming PC and need new gaming headset but after looking on here I am going the headphone route with add on mic.

I am thinking about the ASUS Phoebus with either the DT 770 Pro 250 OHM or the DT 880 Pro 250 OHM, can't decide which. I will then get the Antlion ModMic.

Do you think this is a good combo for gaming?

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> This is my first time in this forum, I am building a new gaming PC and need new gaming headset but after looking on here I am going the headphone route with add on mic.
> 
> I am thinking about the ASUS Phoebus with either the DT 770 Pro 250 OHM or the DT 880 Pro 250 OHM, can't decide which. I will then get the Antlion ModMic.
> 
> Do you think this is a good combo for gaming?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris


Phoebus sucks, max I would spend on a soundcard is the asus xonar DX. Anything above that I would go for an external DAC/AMP.

The xonar STX could be decent, if you can find a cheap one second-hand.

However I would recommend looking for an odac + o2 amp stack or Schiit Magni/Modi stack.

O2 dac/amp: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/

Schiit Magni/modi: http://schiit.com/products/magni http://schiit.com/products/modi


----------



## grifftech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Phoebus sucks, max I would spend on a soundcard is the asus xonar DX. Anything above that I would go for an external DAC/AMP.
> 
> The xonar STX could be decent, if you can find a cheap one second-hand.
> 
> However I would recommend looking for an odac + o2 amp stack or Schiit Magni/Modi stack.
> 
> O2 dac/amp: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/
> 
> Schiit Magni/modi: http://schiit.com/products/magni http://schiit.com/products/modi


Awesome info! I think I will go with the Shiit Magni/Modi. One question, pretty dumb, but with the ModMic I just go ahead and plug that into the onboard mic port on the motherboard?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grifftech*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Phoebus sucks, max I would spend on a soundcard is the asus xonar DX. Anything above that I would go for an external DAC/AMP.
> 
> The xonar STX could be decent, if you can find a cheap one second-hand.
> 
> However I would recommend looking for an odac + o2 amp stack or Schiit Magni/Modi stack.
> 
> O2 dac/amp: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/
> 
> Schiit Magni/modi: http://schiit.com/products/magni http://schiit.com/products/modi
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome info! I think I will go with the Shiit Magni/Modi. One question, pretty dumb, but with the ModMic I just go ahead and plug that into the onboard mic port on the motherboard?
Click to expand...

yep


----------



## PrototypeT800

Recently got a samson go mic but was disappointed in the quality for the most part. It barely sounded better than my old $10 zalmen unless I turned on the -10db mode and held it right next to my face. Anyways I am now trying to decide between the Samson C01U or ATR2500. Do you guys think the samson is worth $30 more?


----------



## Gaupz

Going to pick up a par of AKG Q701's. I have the creative ZXR. Do I need an amp as well or this should do the job just fine?

Also thinking about the HD800's but want to know if my ZXR can do the trick or is it even worth it? I can pick a pair up for $1090.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> Going to pick up a par of AKG Q701's. I have the creative ZXR. Do I need an amp as well or this should do the job just fine?
> 
> Also thinking about the HD800's but want to know if my ZXR can do the trick or is it even worth it? I can pick a pair up for $1090.


You will need to amp them for best performance. But you can't just add "an amp". You really need to provide one of decent quality. Both the Modi/Magni stack and the O2/ODAC combo already mentioned in this thread should do nicely. I don't know about amping the sound card - you might be better off with the external ODAC and Modi DACs.

Now, where the hell do you live that is selling those heaphones for over $1K?


----------



## Gaupz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> You will need to amp them for best performance. But you can't just add "an amp". You really need to provide one of decent quality. Both the Modi/Magni stack and the O2/ODAC combo already mentioned in this thread should do nicely. I don't know about amping the sound card - you might be better off with the external ODAC and Modi DACs.
> 
> Now, where the hell do you live that is selling those heaphones for over $1K?


That price too high? haha? Canada >.>


----------



## tompsonn

I was just looking on Amazon and they are reduced to US $200: http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Headphones-White/dp/B004444OFK/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346743142&sr=1-3&keywords=q701

Is Canada really THAT much higher?!

In fact I bought mine for just a tad over $270 AUD from Amazon including shipping.


----------



## Gaupz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> I was just looking on Amazon and they are reduced to US $200: http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Headphones-White/dp/B004444OFK/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346743142&sr=1-3&keywords=q701
> 
> Is Canada really THAT much higher?!
> 
> In fact I bought mine for just a tad over $270 AUD from Amazon including shipping.


Oh. No, I can get the AKG q701's for $215. and the Sennheiser HD800's for $1090.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> Oh. No, I can get the AKG q701's for $215. and the Sennheiser HD800's for $1090.


Right, that makes more sense. Somehow I actually missed the bit where you mentioned the HD800's









My post then applies to the AKGs, not the HD800's. Dunno about those


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

First off, I just want to mention that I used to own the Q701s and the amp inside the asus stx was enough to drive them. The ZXR from what I understand has an even better amp.

An O2 did not help me much over the sound card. I had to spend some $$$ and I had a custom amp made before I even started to see a return on my investment over a sound card.

Sure an amp is going to make the q701s sound better, but unless you get something like the asgard 2 or the schiit lyr, I would not bother.

Secondly. the HD800s are not all that great. They are just really expensive and transparent sounding. A much better headphone to use for general purpose is the LCD2.

For either of those two headphones, you will need a fairly decent amp to even reach their full potential.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PrototypeT800*
> 
> Recently got a samson go mic but was disappointed in the quality for the most part. It barely sounded better than my old $10 zalmen unless I turned on the -10db mode and held it right next to my face. Anyways I am now trying to decide between the Samson C01U or ATR2500. Do you guys think the samson is worth $30 more?


For ~$53 the 2500 is a really good buy,

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATR2500-USB-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B004QJREXM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388019856&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+condenser+microphone

Cheap and decent sounding (ask @Simca for more details, she has one). But I would recommend it over the Samson, simply put I don't think the Samson is worth the extra $30.


----------



## Gaupz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> First off, I just want to mention that I used to own the Q701s and the amp inside the asus stx was enough to drive them. The ZXR from what I understand has an even better amp.
> 
> An O2 did not help me much over the sound card. I had to spend some $$$ and I had a custom amp made before I even started to see a return on my investment over a sound card.
> 
> Sure an amp is going to make the q701s sound better, but unless you get something like the asgard 2 or the schiit lyr, I would not bother.
> 
> Secondly. the HD800s are not all that great. They are just really expensive and transparent sounding. A much better headphone to use for general purpose is the LCD2.
> 
> For either of those two headphones, you will need a fairly decent amp to even reach their full potential.


Thanks. Probably not worth it to pick up the hd800s and run them off of my zxr then? Even if I can get them cheap. At least from what I have seen it looks like an okay price.


----------



## RallyMaster

>$1000

Okay price.

What.









(<= poor.)


----------



## Simca

Actually, I have the AT2020, Nvidia has the ATR2500. The only thing I'll say though is that this mic is very podcasty sounding. It does an amazing job of killing background noise at the cost of making you sound a little congested. The Yeti I think is the better mic actually.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Actually, I have the AT2020, Nvidia has the ATR2500. The only thing I'll say though is that this mic is very podcasty sounding. It does an amazing job of killing background noise at the cost of making you sound a little congested. The Yeti I think is the better mic actually.


Very accurate post I would say here. I've never tested in a silent room, but I can say the background noise is very low. It's the best mic I've never had so I can't say anything about sounding congested but that too is probably accurate. I have a really monotone voice, so I didn't feel the need for a very accurate mic. If you do, you might go for the Sampson or perhaps even the yeti like Simca said. I will say that the 2500 might be a bit quiet for you if you speak really quietly, I consider myself about average and I have it set to ~80%. For some reason there is never any boost adjustments, at least on my computer, do I dunno what the deal with that is.


----------



## Simca

I have mine set to 90%, but that's simply because I prefer some ambient noise get through like my keyboard to annoy friends.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I have mine set to 90%, but that's simply because I prefer some ambient noise get through like my keyboard to annoy friends.


If find that I am too loud on teamspeak if I do that, and I don't want to force everyone to adjust my volume, much I like have to adjust everyone else's.


----------



## EternalRest

I can't deicied between two headsets. They will paired with the Sound Blaster Z. 90% Gaming 10% listening to Heavy Metal music.

CM Storm Sirus 5.1 Does surround sound work in gaming? From what I been reading, they are very comfortable and the mic works very well.

Or
Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X Larger sound stage, Has no mic, I may just buy a mic or use the included mic with the sound card.


----------



## djriful

I have ATR2500 mic and it is doing a good job so far.


----------



## RallyMaster

I also have an ATR2500. The only annoying part is the blue LED which I've fixed with some painter's tape lol


----------



## Simca

The blue LED in the AT2020 is inside the mic. You can see the LED, but it's not in any way blinding you. It's nicely placed.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EternalRest*
> 
> I can't deicied between two headsets. They will paired with the Sound Blaster Z. 90% Gaming 10% listening to Heavy Metal music.
> 
> CM Storm Sirus 5.1 Does surround sound work in gaming? From what I been reading, they are very comfortable and the mic works very well.
> 
> Or
> Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X Larger sound stage, Has no mic, I may just buy a mic or use the included mic with the sound card.


The SBZ already has SBX Surround that can be used with any stereo headphones so the 5.1 toy is not recommended.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> I also have an ATR2500. The only annoying part is the blue LED which I've fixed with some painter's tape lol


Yeah, and the buttons are cheap too. I threw some duct tape over my led, it fits nicely in color, and just dims it, not completely blocks it out.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> I also have an ATR2500. The only annoying part is the blue LED which I've fixed with some painter's tape lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> The blue LED in the AT2020 is inside the mic. You can see the LED, but it's not in any way blinding you. It's nicely placed.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> I also have an ATR2500. The only annoying part is the blue LED which I've fixed with some painter's tape lol
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and the buttons are cheap too. I threw some duct tape over my led, it fits nicely in color, and just dims it, not completely blocks it out.
Click to expand...

Yeah...

I cutout a piece of sticky note corner.


----------



## rows

Is someone here familiar with the Samson Meteor Mic. It is a bit cheaper (here in Holland) than the Samson CO1U and has good reviews from what I've seen. It also have a nicer look. I will use it most of the time for teamspeak.


----------



## Alex132

I use electrical tape, much better at stopping light:


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Well, I didn't want all of the light blocked, just enough to dim it.


----------



## RallyMaster

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/vxti.jpg/

Because I'm ghetto like that.


----------



## Simca

Pleb Probs.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Mic pics eh?



Lol, go to post a picture and Simca beats me by one minute.


----------



## Simca

I'll post a new one when my other stuff comes in.


----------



## RallyMaster

nvidia, what kind of crazy spider looking structure is that?!


----------



## nvidiaftw12

It's called a shock mount. It so when you bump the table or something, it doesn't transfer the vibrations to the mic. I'm not sure how really needed it is with a boom stand, but it does make it easy to mount it to the boom.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Well, I didn't want all of the light blocked, just enough to dim it.


A common solution in the modular synthesizer community is, of all things... Clear nail polish. Helps reduce the brightness of annoyingly bright LEDs ^_^


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> A common solution in the modular synthesizer community is, of all things... Clear nail polish. Helps reduce the brightness of annoyingly bright LEDs ^_^


Holy crap this is an awesome idea. Way better than ruining the look, e.g. of an Asgard with horrible tape!


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Holy crap this is an awesome idea. Way better than ruining the look, e.g. of an Asgard with horrible tape!


Apparently a lot of the eurorack guys do it since blue LEDs are popular in that format. The format I play with (dotcom, aka MU, which is based off of the old Moog modular synthesizers) use red LEDs mainly so no eye blinding brightness to deal with ^_^


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> It's called a shock mount. It so when you bump the table or something, it doesn't transfer the vibrations to the mic. I'm not sure how really needed it is with a boom stand, but it does make it easy to mount it to the boom.


Do you know which one it is?


----------



## Simca

That's the Samson Shock Mount.


----------



## RallyMaster

Thanks, Simca. +REP.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Yeah, it you get one, definitely go for a metal one like the Sampson, not some cheap plastic crap. It's worth it.


----------



## tompsonn

Got my Q701s. Very impressed


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Got my Q701s. Very impressed


Let it burns in!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Let it burns in!


If they are anything like the K701, that is a lot of burn in to go through.


----------



## RedRumy3

My zalman mic finally died after 3 years and looking into a new microphone, I can probably just buy another zalman mic but I rather have a desktop microphone. I was looking around and saw snowball microphone which is 49.99 and also the audio-technca which is 52.99

Now I have an asus xonar essence stx for sound card along with Beyerdynamic DT-990 and was wondering what I should do :X Get a usb mic or something for my sound card :X so many choices, I am always gaming and talking in mumble to rest of my friends. Any ideas? Modmic ain't in stock atm so no go on that.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedRumy3*
> 
> My zalman mic finally died after 3 years and looking into a new microphone, I can probably just buy another zalman mic but I rather have a desktop microphone. I was looking around and saw snowball microphone which is 49.99 and also the audio-technca which is 52.99
> 
> Now I have an asus xonar essence stx for sound card along with Beyerdynamic DT-990 and was wondering what I should do :X Get a usb mic or something for my sound card :X so many choices, I am always gaming and talking in mumble to rest of my friends. Any ideas? Modmic ain't in stock atm so no go on that.


Don't get the snowball. It is a piece of crap that I regularly want to chunk against the wall.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RedRumy3*
> 
> My zalman mic finally died after 3 years and looking into a new microphone, I can probably just buy another zalman mic but I rather have a desktop microphone. I was looking around and saw snowball microphone which is 49.99 and also the audio-technca which is 52.99
> 
> Now I have an asus xonar essence stx for sound card along with Beyerdynamic DT-990 and was wondering what I should do :X Get a usb mic or something for my sound card :X so many choices, I am always gaming and talking in mumble to rest of my friends. Any ideas? Modmic ain't in stock atm so no go on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get the snowball. It is a piece of crap that I regularly want to chunk against the wall.
Click to expand...

Get the AT instead, heard very good things about it. And tons of people here have them!
Also it's at a really good price.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Get the AT instead, heard very good things about it. And tons of people here have them!
> Also it's at a really good price.


I eventually will... Does it have a power button? (I think someone already answered no, but I forget)


----------



## nvidiaftw12

No, why would it have a power button?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> No, why would it have a power button?


So I can mute it when I am not using it like my old Logitech Desktop mic.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> No, why would it have a power button?
> 
> 
> 
> So I can mute it when I am not using it like my old Logitech Desktop mic.
Click to expand...

Unplug it?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Don't say things that you don't want others to hear/ don't allow spying software to get on your computer?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Unplug it?


That's what I been doing with my Snowball
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Don't say things that you don't want others to hear/ don't allow spying software to get on your computer?


Or buy a mic with an on/off switch?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Preposterous.


----------



## Alex132

It is kinda strange for an external mic of that size to not have on/off.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> It is kinda strange for an external mic of that size to not have on/off.


Is it? I haven't seen many condensers at all with on/off switches?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> It is kinda strange for an external mic of that size to not have on/off.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it? I haven't seen many condensers at all with on/off switches?
Click to expand...

True, but a mean... something more consumer-grade (ie a $50 cond. mic) should have that.

Most studios would just leave them on / turn off at the wall/preamp or smth.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> True, but a mean... something more consumer-grade (ie a $50 cond. mic) should have that.
> 
> Most studios would just leave them on / turn off at the wall/preamp or smth.


I'm not sure they were thinking of gamers sitting with condenser mics in front of them while gaming.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> True, but a mean... something more consumer-grade (ie a $50 cond. mic) should have that.
> 
> Most studios would just leave them on / turn off at the wall/preamp or smth.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure they were thinking of gamers sitting with condenser mics in front of them while gaming.
Click to expand...

I guess, lol. But on/off switch is really easy to implement.


----------



## mmpacbiggie

Just bought myself a new Beyerdynamic MMX 300. Now I need a good sound card. Gaming sound (FPS only!, footsteps but also nice atmosphere sound so it feels you are there), and music (mostly rap/hip hop but i like everything except rock/metal/and that). I can not decide if I should purchase the tianium HD or asus essence STX. I'm even thinking about the ZxR. My Top budget is ~200 dollar. Which sound card do you recommend me? Worth telling is that i've got a very good friend who knows X-Fi cards so if I buy the titanium HD he can help me there.. But hopefully I won't need much help.

Any help aprreciated.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Let it burns in!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> If they are anything like the K701, that is a lot of burn in to go through.


For reals...?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> For reals...?


About the K701? For reals...


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> About the K701? For reals...


And how much improvement does occur after such "burn in"? What is "a lot" on the K701s?


----------



## Simca

That depends on how stiff the equipment is and different models. Some headphones don't burn in at all like my HIFIMAN headphones. Some change very lightly like the DT880s which actually could have just been me getting used to the sound (very treble happy compared to other headphones I've listened to).

Some headphones like the HTF600 or several brands of AKG headphones need burn in time..otherwise they sound strange or underwhelming when you first listen to them. Sometimes you'll hear sharp or bad sounds from them, but given a few hours, they'll settle into place and sound amazing.

Basically if your can needs burn in, it should just flush out bad sounds, maybe correct any flat bass response, but it shouldn't be too huge of a swing in the positive direction. It'll just mostly correct anything that's annoying you for the most part.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That depends on how stiff the equipment is and different models. Some headphones don't burn in at all like my HIFIMAN headphones. Some change very lightly like the DT880s which actually could have just been me getting used to the sound (very treble happy compared to other headphones I've listened to).
> 
> Some headphones like the HTF600 or several brands of AKG headphones need burn in time..otherwise they sound strange or underwhelming when you first listen to them. Sometimes you'll hear sharp or bad sounds from them, but given a few hours, they'll settle into place and sound amazing.


Is it really settling into place, or you just getting used to the original sound?


----------



## Simca

That's a topic for debate, but I do believe for particular headphones you do actually need a bit of burn in because otherwise they sound horrific. The HTF600 never sounded amazing, but on first listen they were absolutely poor and needed a few hours of burn in to set into place.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's a topic for debate, but I do believe for particular headphones you do actually need a bit of burn in because otherwise they sound horrific. The HTF600 never sounded amazing, but on first listen they were absolutely poor and needed a few hours of burn in to set into place.


Alrighty







Any reason why they don't do this at the factory?


----------



## Simca

Time, money, other unseen constraints?


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Time, money, other unseen constraints?


How do you answer a question that was answered with a question, and now answering that question with a question?

--

... yes fair enough


----------



## RedRumy3

Im back with another quick question, it seems I have a little more extra money for a microphone and now I am looking at either Blue yeti or at2020. Which would you guys prefer I know op said he likes the AT2020 but I know a lot of gamers like yeti. Not sure which to choose from :X I'm leaning towards the AT2020


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedRumy3*
> 
> Im back with another quick question, it seems I have a little more extra money for a microphone and now I am looking at either Blue yeti or at2020. Which would you guys prefer I know op said he likes the AT2020 but I know a lot of gamers like yeti. Not sure which to choose from :X I'm leaning towards the AT2020


I am most likely getting an AT2020 next. The Snowball has turned me off of Blue Microphone.


----------



## Tagkaman

Quick two questions: which music player do you guys use and why (foobar, mediamonkey or... itunes)?

Also, what kind of settings should I use on my Xonar DX for the best sound? I recently picked up a pair of Samson SR850s (I had to sell my Pro 550s... long story) if that helps at all.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Quick two questions: which music player do you guys use and why (foobar, mediamonkey or... itunes)?
> 
> Also, what kind of settings should I use on my Xonar DX for the best sound? I recently picked up a pair of Samson SR850s (I had to sell my Pro 550s... long story) if that helps at all.


itunes because i am lazy. and i like it's interface.

Settings on the DX? Get Unified drivers:

http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

And disable any of the stupid effects.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Quick two questions: which music player do you guys use and why (foobar, mediamonkey or... itunes)?


I use foobar personally. Some people don't like the way it sorts music but I got used to it fine


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Quick two questions: which music player do you guys use and why (foobar, mediamonkey or... itunes)?
> 
> 
> 
> I use foobar personally. Some people don't like the way it sorts music but I got used to it fine
Click to expand...

I like iTunes because of the way it looks, the way it sorts stuff and playlists.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I like iTunes because of the way it looks, the way it sorts stuff and playlists.


I liked iTunes but it doesn't play FLAC so I had to change to something else


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I like iTunes because of the way it looks, the way it sorts stuff and playlists.
> 
> 
> 
> I liked iTunes but it doesn't play FLAC so I had to change to something else
Click to expand...

.wav > flac imo


----------



## Tagkaman

To me iTunes sounds kind of muddy in terms of audio quality when compared to Foobar and MediaMonkey but this is probably just placebo.


----------



## kokpa

Hello, what headset with mic, would you recommend to repleace logitech g35? Buget less better


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Hello, what headset with mic, would you recommend to repleace logitech g35? Buget less better


A good pair of headphones + clip-on mic will almost always deliver better quality.

However if you are looking at a headset only, something like the Sennheiner PC360 is probably your best bet


----------



## kokpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> A good pair of headphones + clip-on mic will almost always deliver better quality.
> 
> However if you are looking at a headset only, something like the Sennheiner PC360 is probably your best bet


Yes I know that pair of headphones + clip-on mic will almost always deliver better quality., Thanks for the suggetions but it's way over buget(max. 100eur)


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Yes I know that pair of headphones + clip-on mic will almost always deliver better quality., Thanks for the suggetions but it's way over buget(max. 100eur)


SteelSeries Siberia V2


----------



## kokpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> SteelSeries Siberia V2


Could i see the diffrence between sibiria v2 40ohm or 32ohm? What about razer kraken?


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Could i see the diffrence between sibiria v2 40ohm or 32ohm? What about razer kraken?


instead of siberia v2 and kraken maybe you should try the logitech g230 or maybe the logitech g430 if you want to get the extra "dolby" usb dongle


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Hello, what headset with mic, would you recommend to repleace logitech g35? Buget less better


QPAD QH-85 and QH-90?
Superlux HD330 paired with an easy DIY mic?


----------



## InHartWeTrust

(editing to add some more specifics to get the best help from the experts here)

First off, honestly, the best headphones I've ever worn are $10 earbuds (srs)..so any of these are going to be unreal to me. That said, I want a good quality pair I can keep for years. I likely will be using these 90/10 for gaming/music, respectively, with a clip on mic. I don't intend on buying (read: I won't be, at least not for a long longwhile) an amp or anything other than a Sound Blaster Z sound card.

Which of the below are my best bet? I play FPS only, so I like good sound quality with detail recognition, and nice explosions.

Q701 - $200
DT-990-Pro-250's - $150

I don't know much about this stuff (reading and learning currently), but I think the Q701's would be best due to the lower OHM and my desire not to spend extra money on an amp (to support and bring out the best in the DT 990 250OHM).


----------



## OwnedINC

Going to start playing CS competitively again, I've got 300 set aside for a new headset/sound card.
I was looking to get a Xonar DX & PC 360 ($250 on amazon for both) unless someone has a better suggestion?


----------



## 161029

JDS Labs C5D could be a good addition to the list. JDSLabs builds their newer amps and DACs based off of NwAvGuy's minimum specifications to produce higher quality, transparent DACs and amps. The C5D is based off of these standards. It's essentially a more portable O2+ODAC setup (although they do sound slightly different). Great DAC/amp combo with a bass boost switch that actually does good instead of harm. Highly recommended on Head-Fi.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InHartWeTrust*
> 
> (editing to add some more specifics to get the best help from the experts here)
> 
> First off, honestly, the best headphones I've ever worn are $10 earbuds (srs)..so any of these are going to be unreal to me. That said, I want a good quality pair I can keep for years. I likely will be using these 90/10 for gaming/music, respectively, with a clip on mic. I don't intend on buying (read: I won't be, at least not for a long longwhile) an amp or anything other than a Sound Blaster Z sound card.
> 
> Which of the below are my best bet? I play FPS only, so I like good sound quality with detail recognition, and nice explosions.
> 
> Q701 - $200
> DT-990-Pro-250's - $150
> 
> I don't know much about this stuff (reading and learning currently), but I think the Q701's would be best due to the lower OHM and my desire not to spend extra money on an amp (to support and bring out the best in the DT 990 250OHM).


The Q701 is neutral and has a large if muddied soundstage for positioning. This also means that most will consider the bass rather anemic despite being clear, which unfortunately means that explosions may not be to your satisfaction. Both headphones strongly benefit from amping, especially the Beyer model you are looking at.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> The Q701 is neutral and has a large if muddied soundstage for positioning. This also means that most will consider the bass rather anemic despite being clear, which unfortunately means that explosions may not be to your satisfaction. Both headphones strongly benefit from amping, especially the Beyer model you are looking at.


Yup I wouldn't use Q701s without a good amp.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> The Q701 is neutral and has a large if muddied soundstage for positioning. This also means that most will consider the bass rather anemic despite being clear, which unfortunately means that explosions may not be to your satisfaction. Both headphones strongly benefit from amping, especially the Beyer model you are looking at.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Yup I wouldn't use Q701s without a good amp.


Thanks, guys. I ended up going with the Philips Fidelio X1's and Sound Blaster Z. The X1's are easier to drive (so no amp 100% necessary, although minorly beneficial) and the guys over on Head-Fi seem to be pretty obsessed with them.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InHartWeTrust*
> 
> Thanks, guys. I ended up going with the Philips Fidelio X1's and Sound Blaster Z. The X1's are easier to drive (so no amp 100% necessary, although minorly beneficial) and the guys over on Head-Fi seem to be pretty obsessed with them.


They look super nice!


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InHartWeTrust*
> 
> Thanks, guys. I ended up going with the Philips Fidelio X1's and Sound Blaster Z. The X1's are easier to drive (so no amp 100% necessary, although minorly beneficial) and the guys over on Head-Fi seem to be pretty obsessed with them.


They've also been obsessed with other crappy headphones in the past.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> They've also been obsessed with other crappy headphones in the past.


Are you implying the X1s are crappy?


----------



## Simca

Negative, I haven't heard the X1's so I can't comment, but I don't believe everything Head-fi hypes up. I like to wait until I can hear them myself or can speak to close friends who's opinion I trust and who've heard them say.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Negative, I haven't heard the X1's so I can't comment, but I don't believe everything Head-fi hypes up. I like to wait until I can hear them myself or can speak to close friends who's opinion I trust and who've heard them say.


My close friends have Beats. I have internet forum and website reviews...they checked out in every single place I looked, glowingly. Hopefully it works out.


----------



## OwnedINC

Is the Sound Blaster ZxR worth the extra over a Z?

Seems to be the same on the spec sheet besides a better Amp & DAC


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Is the Sound Blaster ZxR worth the extra over a Z?
> 
> Seems to be the same on the spec sheet besides a better Amp & DAC


Rather shy away from getting soundcards.
Look at a sound-card as a kinda middle-ground step between external and internal audio.
Most I would recommend is the DX or a cheap second-hand STX / ST.

Other than that, the Schiit Magni/Modi or O2 DAC/amp external stacks. Of course your headphones matter greatly in this.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Rather shy away from getting soundcards.
> Look at a sound-card as a kinda middle-ground step between external and internal audio.
> Most I would recommend is the DX or a cheap second-hand STX / ST.
> 
> Other than that, the Schiit Magni/Modi or O2 DAC/amp external stacks. Of course your headphones matter greatly in this.


Have a set of PC 360s on the way, just looking for a sound card for gaming to go with them.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Rather shy away from getting soundcards.
> Look at a sound-card as a kinda middle-ground step between external and internal audio.
> Most I would recommend is the DX or a cheap second-hand STX / ST.
> 
> Other than that, the Schiit Magni/Modi or O2 DAC/amp external stacks. Of course your headphones matter greatly in this.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a set of PC 360s on the way, just looking for a sound card for gaming to go with them.
Click to expand...

Price range?


----------



## RedRumy3

Just bought it :X they are on the authorized sellers list for audio-technica but amazon was not ? dont know why amazon is not and authorized seller lol.

Delivery Estimate Sunday, January 12, 2014 by 8:00pm

Audio-Technica AT2020 USB Condenser USB Microphone Audio-Technica AT2020 USB Condenser USB Microphone
Sold by 17th Street Photo


----------



## Simca

Now add a stand, shock mount and pop filter to the list of things to buy soon.

All of these things can be had for as cheap as $25 or so.


----------



## RedRumy3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Now add a stand, shock mount and pop filter to the list of things to buy soon.
> 
> All of these things can be had for as cheap as $25 or so.


Will probably do that next week or so, do you recommend any?


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Price range?


Up to $300 if need be but priceerformance is always a consideration =P


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Price range?
> 
> 
> 
> Up to $300 if need be but priceerformance is always a consideration =P
Click to expand...

Well for that money you can get a whole bunch!

Schiit Magni/Modi for example, great starter external DAC/amp with good value and performance!:
http://schiit.com/products/magni
http://schiit.com/products/modi

You could always get the Vali instead of the Magni if you want a little-more warmth in the mids, as it is a hybrid amp (contains tubes):
http://schiit.com/products/vali

Also the O2 DAC/amp combo is a great value buy, with equally (if not better) performance than the Schiit Magni/Modi stack:
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/

If you REALLY want internal, an STX is probably the best way to go. But I would recommend getting an external DAC/amp instead:
http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-XONAR-ESSENCE-STX-90-YAA0C0-0UAN00Z/dp/B001OV789U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389392108&sr=8-1&keywords=stx


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedRumy3*
> 
> Will probably do that next week or so, do you recommend any?


If you're looking for CHEAP but looks and works well, I recommend the On Stage DS7200B Stand, a Universal Microphone Shock Mount from eBay (This is constructed of metal, not plastic and is all black to go nicely with the AT2020), the 5/8" Female to 3/8" Male screw adapter from guitar center, have it shipped to store for 2.08 in store pick up after tax, and a 6-7 dollar pop filter on ebay.


----------



## RedRumy3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> If you're looking for CHEAP but looks and works well, I recommend the On Stage DS7200B Stand, a Universal Microphone Shock Mount from eBay (This is constructed of metal, not plastic and is all black to go nicely with the AT2020), the 5/8" Female to 3/8" Male screw adapter from guitar center, have it shipped to store for 2.08 in store pick up after tax, and a 6-7 dollar pop filter on ebay.


You're awesome <3 thanks for the help!


----------



## twerk

About to pull the trigger on some Audioengine A2 speakers. Does anyone have any better suggestions for 2.0 speakers that are under £200 and are fairly small like the A2 before I do it? The Amazon reviews are making me doubt myself, they aren't exactly great.

Oh, and active speakers only please!


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> About to pull the trigger on some Audioengine A2 speakers. Does anyone have any better suggestions for 2.0 speakers that are under £200 and are fairly small like the A2 before I do it? The Amazon reviews are making me doubt myself, they aren't exactly great.
> 
> Oh, and active speakers only please!


Check out the Roth Oli Powa 5s


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Check out the Roth Oli Powa 5s


Thanks. Do they produce a decent amount of bass? They will be used on their own, not paired with a sub.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Thanks. Do they produce a decent amount of bass? They will be used on their own, not paired with a sub.


Yeah I should think so - You can always go to a Richer Sounds store and give them a listen


----------



## Frosch

I have a pair of Takstar Pro 80/Gemini HSR-1000, and the mid is a little bit too laid back and a little bit too dark for my liking, any dac/amp recommended so the mid become more sweet, or maybe make the sound more brighter? thanks
















edit : budget is around $200-$250


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Got 2 questions for you guys, first whats some good headphones for metal, rock music like Metalica, AC/DC etc. Second whats the best headphones for directional and all round gaming? With money being no object that wouldnt have a problem working with my current Xonar STX?

Thanks


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Got 2 questions for you guys, first whats some good headphones for metal, rock music like Metalica, AC/DC etc. Second whats the best headphones for directional and all round gaming? With money being no object that wouldnt have a problem working with my current Xonar STX?
> 
> Thanks


easy

Audeze LCD-3
Sennheiser HD800

are you sure money is no object?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> easy
> 
> Audeze LCD-3
> Sennheiser HD800
> 
> are you sure money is no object?


Cool









Money is no object... to $1500 each







. Like I said tho I want them to work with my STX, dont wanna buy more crap


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Money is no object... to $1500 each
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Like I said tho I want them to work with my STX, dont wanna buy more crap


forget it than. Asus Xonar Essence ST collects dust in my PC for a reason


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> forget it than. Asus Xonar Essence ST collects dust in my PC for a reason


Easier then stuffing around with DACs and crap







and I like my 8 channel audio









I wouldnt mind taking it out tho, it looks a bit ugly now I got all my WC stuff in


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> easy
> 
> Audeze LCD-3
> Sennheiser HD800
> 
> are you sure money is no object?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Money is no object... to $1500 each
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Like I said tho I want them to work with my STX, dont wanna buy more crap
Click to expand...

it really isn't hard to spend $200 more on a schiit magni/modi stack or o2 dac/amp stack:

http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/
http://schiit.com/products/modi
http://schiit.com/products/magni


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> it really isn't hard to spend $200 more on a schiit magni/modi stack or o2 dac/amp stack:
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/
> http://schiit.com/products/modi
> http://schiit.com/products/magni


Especially when "money isn't an object".


----------



## bumblebee1980

why on earth would you spend $3000 on headphones and not spend any money on your source or amplifier?

Schiit Bifrost
Schiit Valhalla
Sennheiser HD600
AKG Q701

done


----------



## bumblebee1980

you can get everything I mentioned here

http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/

go order, enjoy!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> it really isn't hard to spend $200 more on a schiit magni/modi stack or o2 dac/amp stack:
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/
> http://schiit.com/products/modi
> http://schiit.com/products/magni


Spending a little more isnt to much a problem, already spend 4k on my system whats another few thousand







... as long as its gonna be worth it and last a while
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Especially when "money isn't an object".


I did say money isnt an object but also if it would work well with my current sound card. Like I just said tho, I dont mind spending a bit more if its gonna last for a while, by a while I mean a few years
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> why on earth would you spend $3000 on headphones and not spend any money on your source or amplifier?
> 
> Schiit Bifrost
> Schiit Valhalla
> Sennheiser HD600
> AKG Q701
> 
> done


Coz Im weird? nah I like keeping things simple, DACs and stuff always confuse me on the setup and I didnt think DACs could do virtual surround sound? or does it just come down to Windows and game settings? Im a n00b with audio stuff but like to be able to hear everything in music, movies games etc

Thanks I'll have a look tho








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> It's all subjective and personal preference. Same with defining "the best" you could do it with hard science based on headphone raw output stats and quality of parts used but it may not sound "the best"
> 
> If you want to find a good pair of cans I suggest you find a shop that stocks a whole range of them and try them for yourself as we could suggest a tonne of headphones but you may either not like the sound for one reason or another or they're just not comfortable on your head
> 
> Sennheisers you generally cannot go wrong with them
> 
> KRK either KNS6400 or 8400 you will get near true sound ie how it sounds to the engineer mixing the original track but this isn't always a good thing as you can get listening fatigue
> 
> Pioneer HDJ2000's are pretty solid too
> 
> Also certain audio equipment have a burn in period, where it takes a good week for your equipment to settle in to producing their true sound, this is true with KRK equipment from personal experience
> 
> There's alot of audiophile bull**** that flies around the internet and ALOT of it is fiction, biggest of those is how a £300 cable produces better sound than £25 cables which is nothing but unicorn piss and marketing hype.
> 
> If you picked out some headphones and asked for advice we could point you in the right direction and certainly be able to inform you of things to definately avoid but ultimately it's your choice and you really need to try before you buy.


I would go and have a look at shops to see what stuff sounds but all the shops around me just have crap lol.

Yeah I know a lot of high end stuff had burn in, which isnt a problem. I seen a lot of that bs audiophile stuff, even had friends tell me to swap out the cable on my AD700s to some pro cable coz it would sound soooo much better









I dunno headphones lol I kinda just go with popular stuff off here and it seems to work, my AD700s tho are my main headphones and dont get me wrong there great for games but music and movies... not so much. I wouldnt mind buying better headphones for games either just to try








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you can get everything I mentioned here
> 
> http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/
> 
> go order, enjoy!


Thanks I'll have a look


----------



## bumblebee1980

it's Australia so the prices can't be helped but brands carried is impressive. nice store.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's Australia so the prices can't be helped but brands carried is impressive. nice store.


Yeah dont worry were use to being ripped off for everything here in Aus


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Yeah dont worry were use to being ripped off for everything here in Aus


I actually got my Q701s from Amazon. Even with shipping it was still cheaper.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I would go and have a look at shops to see what stuff sounds but all the shops around me just have crap lol.
> 
> Yeah I know a lot of high end stuff had burn in, which isnt a problem. I seen a lot of that bs audiophile stuff, even had friends tell me to swap out the cable on my AD700s to some pro cable coz it would sound soooo much better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno headphones lol I kinda just go with popular stuff off here and it seems to work, my AD700s tho are my main headphones and dont get me wrong there great for games but music and movies... not so much. I wouldnt mind buying better headphones for games either just to try


That's a shame, are there no DJ stores around you as they generally stock solid headphones ?

Popular isn't always good, there's ALOT of people who have fallen for the marketing hype for "beats" headphones but in reality they're nothing special and only sound good because their frequency response favours bass and alot of what people think sounds good is more to do with psychoacoustics (louder = better) when in reality there is no actual difference.

If you get some decent headphones that sound good for music and movies then they'll sound good for gaming too.

BUT if you're watching poorly compressed films and sub 320k audio files then all good equipment will do is make is sound worse, it'll highlight more of the horrible audio artifacts from poor compression in the 20hz to 20khz spectrum, 320k is generally ok because it gets pretty much all the audio to around 18k and the other 2k is generally inaudible unless you have super sensitive hearing, however you can tell the difference between lossless and 320k, there's a kind of sparkle and clarity to the audio at lossless on good equipment


----------



## bumblebee1980

actually get the Resonessence Labs Concero instead of the Schiit Bifrost because with all the upgrades it's $717. The Concero is $650 comes with remote, filtering options and doubles as USB -> S/PDIF converter.

if you want to save money get the standard Schiit Bifrost ($494) and run Toslink out the back of your Asus Xonar Essence STX.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> actually get the Resonessence Labs Concero instead of the Schiit Bifrost because with all the upgrades it's $717. The Concero is $650 comes with remote, filtering options and doubles as USB -> S/PDIF converter.
> 
> if you want to save money get the standard Schiit Bifrost ($494) and run Toslink out the back of your Asus Xonar Essence STX.


I'm curious, what are the benchmark tests done to be able to rate one DAC above the other and justify the prices ?

Would be nice to see hard science behind all these DAC's to see if they're actually worth it

Also instead of looking at DAC's there's also the choice of Interfaces, Focusrite make some decent ones like the Scarlett series which will also give you the ability to plug some active monitors into them.

Personally if it was me, I'd go with the Pro Audio choice over the Audiophile choice simply because the music I'm intending to listen to has been made using these same devices


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> I actually got my Q701s from Amazon. Even with shipping it was still cheaper.


:O really? thats damn good, might have to check Amazon out
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> That's a shame, are there no DJ stores around you as they generally stock solid headphones ?
> 
> Popular isn't always good, there's ALOT of people who have fallen for the marketing hype for "beats" headphones but in reality they're nothing special and only sound good because their frequency response favours bass and alot of what people think sounds good is more to do with psychoacoustics (louder = better) when in reality there is no actual difference.
> 
> If you get some decent headphones that sound good for music and movies then they'll sound good for gaming too.
> 
> BUT if you're watching poorly compressed films and sub 320k audio files then all good equipment will do is make is sound worse, it'll highlight more of the horrible audio artifacts from poor compression in the 20hz to 20khz spectrum, 320k is generally ok because it gets pretty much all the audio to around 18k and the other 2k is generally inaudible unless you have super sensitive hearing, however you can tell the difference between lossless and 320k, there's a kind of sparkle and clarity to the audio at lossless on good equipment


Nah all the shops near me dont even stock Sennheiser







unless I go to Brisbane or something but thats 3 hours away and Im lazy









Yeah I know but how many of us on OCN bought into the Beats crap?









Most of my music is 320k but I do wanna try and get lossless, most if it shouldnt be to hard but my underground stuff probably wont happen







, I can tell the difference between 320k and 128k even on my current stuff, 128k doesnt seem to... I dunno just doesnt seem to sound as nice as 320k
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> actually get the Resonessence Labs Concero instead of the Schiit Bifrost because with all the upgrades it's $717. The Concero is $650 comes with remote, filtering options and doubles as USB -> S/PDIF converter.
> 
> if you want to save money get the standard Schiit Bifrost ($494) and run Toslink out the back of your Asus Xonar Essence STX.


Ah ok, I was looking at all the stuff on that site there some damn nice things on there

I think if I end up getting this stuff I'll probably be doing it to replace my sound card, I'll have to think about it tho

Also with the DACs and stuff can you have speakers and headphones connected but not necessarily on at the same time? I have my headphones and speakers plugged into my sound card atm and just use software to select which one I wanna listen through


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> :O really? thats damn good, might have to check Amazon out
> Nah all the shops near me dont even stock Sennheiser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unless I go to Brisbane or something but thats 3 hours away and Im lazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I know but how many of us on OCN bought into the Beats crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of my music is 320k but I do wanna try and get lossless, most if it shouldnt be to hard but my underground stuff probably wont happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I can tell the difference between 320k and 128k even on my current stuff, 128k doesnt seem to... I dunno just doesnt seem to sound as nice as 320k
> Ah ok, I was looking at all the stuff on that site there some damn nice things on there
> 
> I think if I end up getting this stuff I'll probably be doing it to replace my sound card, I'll have to think about it tho
> 
> Also with the DACs and stuff can you have speakers and headphones connected but not necessarily on at the same time? I have my headphones and speakers plugged into my sound card atm and just use software to select which one I wanna listen through


the Schiit Lyr and Asgard 2 have variable analog outputs you can use to hook up Active Monitors or Power Amplifiers. when you insert a headphone jack it will automatically switch over. you can also use splitters on a D/A converter like this to hook up to a Integrated, Pre-amp or Active Monitor.



or you could buy a D/A converter with 2 sets of balanced or unbalanced outputs.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> I'm curious, what are the benchmark tests done to be able to rate one DAC above the other and justify the prices ?
> 
> Would be nice to see hard science behind all these DAC's to see if they're actually worth it
> 
> Also instead of looking at DAC's there's also the choice of Interfaces, Focusrite make some decent ones like the Scarlett series which will also give you the ability to plug some active monitors into them.
> 
> Personally if it was me, I'd go with the Pro Audio choice over the Audiophile choice simply because the music I'm intending to listen to has been made using these same devices


Whats the difference between the pro audio over audiophile stuff? I thought pro stuff was more gear toward music and audiophile was everything else

Dont mind me Im a n00b








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Schiit Lyr and Asgard 2 have variable analog outputs you can use to hook up Active Monitors or Power Amplifiers. when you insert a headphone jack it will automatically switch over. you can also use splitters on a D/A converter like this to hook up to a Integrated, Pre-amp or Active Monitor.
> 
> 
> 
> or you could buy a D/A converter with 2 sets of balanced or unbalanced outputs.


Ah ok cool


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Whats the difference between the pro audio over audiophile stuff? I thought pro stuff was more gear toward music and audiophile was everything else
> 
> Dont mind me Im a n00b


It's fine we're all noobs, I only know so much stuff because I do this for my degree in Sound Engineering, I even built a headphone preamp in my first year

Bascically pro audio gear is the stuff the professionals use to make the stuff you hear so you know it works and you know it's good quality (why else would they use it)

Audiophile stuff can have benefits in terms of sound enhancements where stuff can sound better, whether it's through the quality of the components used (you'd be amazed how tonal characteristics of audio signals passed through different capacitors, resistors and transistors not to mention through transformers can change) or where the sound is artificially enhanced (enhanced presence in bass or mid frequencies etc)

However there's alot of audiophile gear that really has no benefit at all over standard stuff.

The bottom line is, on board is generally rubbish mainly because it's so close to all the electrical stuff going on you're going to get alot of noise from all the electrical components, the processing power for DAC/ADC conversions and also the components used for those conversions and the firmware/drivers

PCI sound cards are good and do the job better but again you can have issues of noise depending on how good their noise filters are and again components and also driver/firmware quality for DAC/ADC converting (an example is my Sound Blaster when run through studio monitors has ALOT of static background noise on an unbalanced connection)

The external USB interfaces and DAC's are the best for true audio reproduction but it depends on quality, however you reach a point where some products in the thousands of $'s are really no better than products that cost a few hundred and it becomes subjective opinion on whether it truely is better quality or if that quality difference is worth the price difference.

Personally I've always tended to avoid any Audiophile gear and stuck with the stuff professionals use and stuff my lecturers at uni (who seriously know their stuff) have reccomended, not to mention the Pro Audio interfaces generally have incredibly good DAC's built into them for the price you can get them for


----------



## Simca

"Professionals" use Sony MDR7506s, no thanks.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> It's fine we're all noobs, I only know so much stuff because I do this for my degree in Sound Engineering, I even built a headphone preamp in my first year
> 
> Bascically pro audio gear is the stuff the professionals use to make the stuff you hear so you know it works and you know it's good quality (why else would they use it)
> 
> Audiophile stuff can have benefits in terms of sound enhancements where stuff can sound better, whether it's through the quality of the components used (you'd be amazed how tonal characteristics of audio signals passed through different capacitors, resistors and transistors not to mention through transformers can change) or where the sound is artificially enhanced (enhanced presence in bass or mid frequencies etc)
> 
> However there's alot of audiophile gear that really has no benefit at all over standard stuff.
> 
> The bottom line is, on board is generally rubbish mainly because it's so close to all the electrical stuff going on you're going to get alot of noise from all the electrical components, the processing power for DAC/ADC conversions and also the components used for those conversions and the firmware/drivers
> 
> PCI sound cards are good and do the job better but again you can have issues of noise depending on how good their noise filters are and again components and also driver/firmware quality for DAC/ADC converting (an example is my Sound Blaster when run through studio monitors has ALOT of static background noise on an unbalanced connection)
> 
> The external USB interfaces and DAC's are the best for true audio reproduction but it depends on quality, however you reach a point where some products in the thousands of $'s are really no better than products that cost a few hundred and it becomes subjective opinion on whether it truely is better quality or if that quality difference is worth the price difference.
> 
> Personally I've always tended to avoid any Audiophile gear and stuck with the stuff professionals use and stuff my lecturers at uni (who seriously know their stuff) have reccomended, not to mention the Pro Audio interfaces generally have incredibly good DAC's built into them for the price you can get them for


... You seem to know your stuff







lol

I think we all know how crap on board is, even my Asus board with the separate PCB for the audio stuff sucks compared to my sound card







once I got my sound card it was a god send, games and music sounded 10x better









Isnt there a delay with USB stuff tho seeing it needs to go through the controller first?


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> "Professionals" use Sony MDR7506s, no thanks.


Snobbery does not make a product better or worse












The Audio Myths Workshop is also a good look into the world of "audiophiles" and the effects of psychoacoustics
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> ... You seem to know your stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> I think we all know how crap on board is, even my Asus board with the separate PCB for the audio stuff sucks compared to my sound card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once I got my sound card it was a god send, games and music sounded 10x better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isnt there a delay with USB stuff tho seeing it needs to go through the controller first?


There's alot I also don't know about the audio world but I'm still learning.

One of my lecturers helps write the standards for digital Audio and develop new tech and lectures alot at AES so I like to think he knows his stuff and teaches me well.

There is a delay yes, but the delay is only as long as it takes the DAC to convert the information which is incredibly small and not noticable unless you can measure in nanoseconds


----------



## Simca

Likewise, just because "professionals" use certain equipment doesn't mean it's the best you can get.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> There's alot I also don't know about the audio world but I'm still learning.
> 
> One of my lecturers helps write the standards for digital Audio and develop new tech and lectures alot at AES so I like to think he knows his stuff and teaches me well.
> 
> There is a delay yes, but the delay is only as long as it takes the DAC to convert the information which is incredibly small and not noticable unless you can measure in nanoseconds


Thats cool









Ah ok. I only ask coz I use Virtual Audio Cable to split my audio so when I record games with Dxtory I have all my audio streams separate, makes it easier for editing etc and I get a slight delay at most 1 second but thats still enough to get me killed


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Likewise, just because "professionals" use certain equipment doesn't mean it's the best you can get.


And I never said it was the best, just that it generally is because most pro audio people know what they're talking about therefore can submit more honest and scientifically backed reviews on products.

If you watch the video I replied with then you may understand where one is coming from
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thats cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok. I only ask coz I use Virtual Audio Cable to split my audio so when I record games with Dxtory I have all my audio streams separate, makes it easier for editing etc and I get a slight delay at most 1 second but thats still enough to get me killed


I'd imagine so because you're recording your signal it on the fly, whilst your system is under load already playing games, nothing to do with your soundcards but more to do with the VAC software


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> And I never said it was the best, just that it generally is because most pro audio people know what they're talking about therefore can submit more honest and scientifically backed reviews on products.
> 
> If you watch the video I replied with then you may understand where one is coming from
> I'd imagine so because you're recording your signal it on the fly, whilst your system is under load already playing games, nothing to do with your soundcards but more to do with the VAC software


I can guarantee you professionals do not use the best and brightest audio gear on average, especially monitoring headphones. Many professionals use JBL speakers and while they're great speakers in their own right, they're not the best they could have used. Furthermore, there's a huge difference between monitors for studios and speakers for living rooms. They each have their uses and purposes. They each perform different functions and perform differently in different places.

But really, this is all public knowledge. I'm sure there's tons of interviews out there from artists that will tell you the same.

So question is who do you consider professional? Artists? Multi-million dollar recording studios? Companies that put it all together for the people that do the mixing? Who are we talking about? Is there a budget?

We use better headphones in this thread than most artists use in the studio. That's a statement of fact.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> I'd imagine so because you're recording your signal it on the fly, whilst your system is under load already playing games, nothing to do with your soundcards but more to do with the VAC software


Yeah I thought the same thing, just dont wanna add more lag into it lol


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I can guarantee you professionals do not use the best and brightest audio gear on average, especially monitoring headphones. Many professionals use JBL speakers and while they're great speakers in their own right, they're not the best they could have used. Furthermore, there's a huge difference between monitors for studios and speakers for living rooms. They each have their uses and purposes. They each perform different functions and perform differently in different places.


Any decent recording studio will have various monitors, why ? So they can check how the audio they're making sounds on various systems to get the best possible sounds. As for the main monitor an engineer uses it's personal preference. This is why there's so many engineers with so many studio's and so many different setups, everyone has their own preference on what tools they want to use the get the job done and ultimately the skill is down to using those tools to get the best possible in theirs and the consumers opinion. However it's like I said earlier there comes a point where audio quality perception comes down to pyschoacoustics which is ultimately personal preference on how you like something sounding and the difference in equipment is down to price not scientific difference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> So question is who do you consider professional? Artists? Multi-million dollar recording studios? Companies that put it all together for the people that do the mixing? Who are we talking about? Is there a budget?


I consider anyone who makes money from producing audio to be a professional as the ability to make money from the music is what differentiates an amateur to a professional in any field of life no ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> We use better headphones in this thread than most artists use in the studio. That's a statement of fact.


How can you say this ? How can you possibly know what equipment most artists use out of all the studio's in the world ? It's all well and good throwing out generalisations but can you back up your "fact" with facts ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Yeah I thought the same thing, just dont wanna add more lag into it lol


You could always record the audio on another system, I know when I get my new build up and running I'll be streaming games and audio via my laptop so my gaming rig doesn't have any extra stress put upon it


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> AYou could always record the audio on another system, I know when I get my new build up and running I'll be streaming games and audio via my laptop so my gaming rig doesn't have any extra stress put upon it


Thats true, but that means running another rig... and Im lazy


----------



## Simca

Because there are many artists from Trent Reznor, Dr. Dre, etc.. who give interviews and are questioned about the type of gear they use. It's nothing new. They use Sony's, they use Shures, are these the best? Surely not. Even the Sony MDR-SA5000 he occasionally uses aren't the best at reproducing sound.

These are all professionals that make money selling their music. I have a few friends that are producers and mix engineers that are heavily involved in recording, mastering etc.. They've worked with artists like Ne-Yo, Rick Ross, Nina Sky, Twista, Miss Elliot, TLC, Joe Buddons, worked on Red Dead Redemption, MTV's Real World, have done advertisements all across the board..the point being..producers don't use the best.

Now, we could go at it from multiple angles, but I think we've sufficiently addressed the situation.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Because there are many artists from Trent Reznor, Dr. Dre, etc.. who give interviews and are questioned about the type of gear they use. It's nothing new. They use Sony's, they use Shures, are these the best? Surely not. Even the Sony MDR-SA5000 he occasionally uses aren't the best at reproducing sound.
> 
> These are all professionals that make money selling their music. I have a few friends that are producers and mix engineers that are heavily involved in recording, mastering etc.. They've worked with artists like Ne-Yo, Rick Ross, Nina Sky, Twista, Miss Elliot, TLC, Joe Buddons, worked on Red Dead Redemption, MTV's Real World, have done advertisements all across the board..the point being..producers don't use the best.
> 
> Now, we could go at it from multiple angles, but I think we've sufficiently addressed the situation.


Do you not think they're sponsored to say what they use ? I use Sony's, but I also use other headphones also because as an engineer you need to do this to test your sound on alot of different products as it's going to sound differently on all of them and the aim is to get it sounding good on most. When I make a track it can sound good on my Rokits (they're awfully generous at making stuff sound better than it is) but it could sound rubbish when I've burnt it to CD and play in my car or go and listen to it in the studio's at uni. And then there's how it sounds on a pair of NS10's probably the best nearfield monitors ever created (subject to opinion)

What I'm trying to say is, they might admit to using one piece of equipment but they're solely bound to using that single piece of equipment, anyone who mixes/engineers audio worth their weight in gold will use many pieces of gear.

Sure they may not use "the best" but really what is the best ? Seriously what is the definition for "the best" do we go off hard science based on frequency response and FFT charts ? And then what happens when we throw other variables in like acoustics for the room etc ? What sounds good in one room may not neccesarily sound good in another.

To arrogantly say "most of use the best equipment in here" is just laughable and just sums up the general ignorance of audiophile mentality. And no offence, but hip hop producers/engineers aren't really well known for being an authority on pro audio gear which is no fault of their own but more down the simpler requirements on what gear you need to create a modern day Hip hop "hit" which generally also applies to Electronic dance music as well and to a certain extent can be applied for pre digital era hits as it was all sample based thanks to the AKAI MPC and other samplers


----------



## Simca

Yeah, I don't think the goal is to make things sound good on every speaker out there..or even on multiple types of speakers. I'm pretty sure their goal is to have neutral monitors that don't color music in any particular fashion. They could care less how their music is going to sound on a pair of Swans. There are simply way too many options out there to worry about how it's going to sound on different speakers and there's simply not much they're going to be able to do to appease the sound on one speaker because its inferior to another. Otherwise they're degrading their audio to make everything sound good and in the process you're making the original sound worse.

You're degrading your argument now with statements like "what is best" and talking about how sound changes in rooms.

Being as there are infinite possibilities to where their music can be heard, I'm rather certain they don't mix their music to accommodate different room sizes.

I also didn't say most of us use the best equipment here. I said on average most users in this thread use better headphones than artists for mixing, listening to their vocals etc etc. Consider the MDR-7506s which according to many "professionals" (and this is the sad part) is an "industry standard." And since you're saying they're being paid to mention such and such gear (funny since they don't all use the same brands for all their equipment on top of being pictured mixing with said equipment, not just commenting on it). Also, I highly doubt someone like Trent Reznor would be on his knees spewing products he's being paid to mention.

You telling me we don't have better headphones than "the industry standard?"

Please.

You're further degrading your argument by making statements like, "Hip hop engineers aren't really well known for being an authority on pro audio gear.."

Before I asked you to define professional. You gave me the answer of someone that makes money off their music/what they're selling etc. Hip-hop accounts for such an enormous portion of the market today. You're telling me these companies that are making billions of dollars aren't using a good studio? Let me guess, Jay-Z is in some basement in the hood mixing beats off some bum audio equipment he found in a yard sale?

That kind of statement is really ignorant, and that's putting it kindly.

I'm not going to continue this conversation any further with you.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I'm not going to continue this conversation any further with you.


Good, I don't really enjoy trying to have intelligent discussion with someone who convolutes what's actually being said and clearly knows better than someone doing a degree in the subject and has been involved in the industry well over 10 years


----------



## MerkageTurk

I got the HD 598 Sennheiser and zalman clip on mic, is this good? for gaming etc positional sound audio


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Good, I don't really enjoy trying to have intelligent discussion with someone who convolutes what's actually being said and clearly knows better than someone doing a degree in the subject and has been involved in the industry well over 10 years


Or someone throwing their weight around with degrees and so called experience.


----------



## Simca

Over 10 years experience and a degree and he's using Rokit speakers. Mymymy. Good night.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Over 10 years experience and a degree and he's using Rokit speakers. Mymymy. Good night.


Oh please, I thought you were done ? Or you just have to get the last word in ?

Typical Audiophile snobbery and arrogance at play


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So if I get the Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC that was previously recommended how do they connect up, this is what always confuses me with DACs and amps. Be nice Im a n00b









An also with virtual surround sound, thats just Windows/game settings isnt it?


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So if I get the Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC that was previously recommended how do they connect up, this is what always confuses me with DACs and amps. Be nice Im a n00b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An also with virtual surround sound, thats just Windows/game settings isnt it?


You would run the Concero via USB then output from the stereo RCA (phono) outputs into the Valhalla's RCA Inputs and then your headphones into the output of the Valhalla.

Personally based on the fact it uses RCA connections I'd say avoid it, because if you're spending all that money you really want balanced connections as RCA is notorious for noise and defeats the whole purpose of trying to get best quality sound, but that's Audiophile gear for you


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> An also with virtual surround sound, thats just Windows/game settings isnt it?


Virtual surround are all DSP effects applied before output. The DAC just does its normal duty as it would otherwise, thus the virtual surround et al are not dependent on the specific DAC in use


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Personally based on the fact it uses RCA connections I'd say avoid it, because if you're spending all that money you really want balanced connections as RCA is notorious for noise and defeats the whole purpose of trying to get best quality sound, but that's Audiophile gear for you


http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
http://schiit.com/products/mjolnir

Balanced DAC and amp. That's "audiophile gear". Man you gotta zip it.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
> http://schiit.com/products/mjolnir
> 
> Balanced DAC and amp. That's "audiophile gear". Man you gotta zip it.


Yeah.. not the gear he's asking questions about though is it

What is it with you guys not reading in context ?


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Yeah.. not the gear he's asking questions about though is it
> 
> What is it with you guys not reading in context ?


"but that's Audiophile gear for you"

You could have just left that unhelpful piece of junk out of your post and your so called "context" would have been taken as intended.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> You would run the Concero via USB then output from the stereo RCA (phono) outputs into the Valhalla's RCA Inputs and then your headphones into the output of the Valhalla.
> 
> Personally based on the fact it uses RCA connections I'd say avoid it, because if you're spending all that money you really want balanced connections as RCA is notorious for noise and defeats the whole purpose of trying to get best quality sound, but that's Audiophile gear for you


Thanks, just wasnt 100% sure

But if I went to a DAC/AMP with XLR connections wouldnt I still need to get a connection to go from RCA/3mm/6mm anyway?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Virtual surround are all DSP effects applied before output. The DAC just does its normal duty as it would otherwise, thus the virtual surround et al are not dependent on the specific DAC in use


Ah ok, I just wasnt sure. Audio stuff confuses me when its not in the PC








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
> http://schiit.com/products/mjolnir
> 
> Balanced DAC and amp. That's "audiophile gear". Man you gotta zip it.


Isnt that kinda over the top for most peoples uses... unless there producing music/recording?


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> *Isnt that kinda over the top for most peoples uses*... unless there producing music/recording?


Certainly.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> "but that's Audiophile gear for you"
> 
> You could have just left that unhelpful piece of junk out of your post and your so called "context" would have been taken as intended.


Or you could just not have a hissy fit jumping to the defense of your ilk

I never said all audiophile stuff wasn't good I just said most of it is, which is true but you believe what you want I don't really care as I wasn't talking to you anyway but you felt the need to butt in so just stop it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thanks, just wasnt 100% sure
> 
> But if I went to a DAC/AMP with XLR connections wouldnt I still need to get a connection to go from RCA/3mm/6mm anyway?


Not sure what you mean here, I doubt any balanced DAC/AMP will be XLR as that's generally used for Mics and Speakers, TRS would be the generally used one and it will stay balanced until your headphones. If you're going for best audio quality then avoid anything which has unbalanced inputs/outputs
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Isnt that kinda over the top for most peoples uses... unless there producing music/recording?


No one producing/recording would use that stuff they'd be using proper interfaces and other external gear eg a Focusrite Scarlet and a Focusrite ISA pre amp for mics and I wouldn't say it's over the top, not at least for the fantasy quests for audio fidelity audiophiles embark on


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Not sure what you mean here, I doubt any balanced DAC/AMP will be XLR as that's generally used for Mics and Speakers, TRS would be the generally used one and it will stay balanced until your headphones. If you're going for best audio quality then avoid anything which has unbalanced inputs/outputs


What ones would you suggest from the site I linked the others from
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> No one producing/recording would use that stuff they'd be using proper interfaces and other external gear eg a Focusrite Scarlet and a Focusrite ISA pre amp for mics and I wouldn't say it's over the top, not at least for the fantasy quests for audio fidelity audiophiles embark on


Thats true, but like I said those DAC/AMPs are over kill for normal usage, remember Im only gaming, watching movies and listening to music lol


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> What ones would you suggest from the site I linked the others from
> Thats true, but like I said those DAC/AMPs are over kill for normal usage, remember Im only gaming, watching movies and listening to music lol


Does it have to be those ?

Personally I'd suggest a cheaper (depends on Australian availability and pricing) alternative and go with a proper audio interface, which will work just as good as any of those DAC's you've listed while also giving you options for XLR inputs for microphones (and phantom power too if your mic requires it) which will make your voice recordings sound better too whilst also giving you balanced stereo outputs for plugging some speakers into as well

Pretty much any interface by Focusrite, Apogee or RME you would be happy with, just check the interface has the inputs/outputs you want, they're all USB and all have incredibly good DAC/AMP's built in especially the Apogee ones


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So if I get the Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC that was previously recommended how do they connect up, this is what always confuses me with DACs and amps. Be nice Im a n00b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An also with virtual surround sound, thats just Windows/game settings isnt it?


http://resonessencelabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/CHD-User-Guide-Rev-2.2.pdf

instructions are all in the manual.

connect the Concero to a USB 2.0 port on your PC with a USB A to B cable (should be included). download the USB 2.0 Audio driver (link is in manual or on website). update the firmware then make it your primary device. connect the Concero and Valhalla together with a pair of RCA interconnects. I recommend you disable all Windows Event sounds. install ASIO or WASAPI if needed and config JRiver Media Center or Foobar2000 and you're ready to go.



I think Blue is bit-perfect and magenta is up-sampling.



pretty simple


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Does it have to be those ?
> 
> Personally I'd suggest a cheaper (depends on Australian availability and pricing) alternative and go with a proper audio interface, which will work just as good as any of those DAC's you've listed while also giving you options for XLR inputs for microphones (and phantom power too if your mic requires it) which will make your voice recordings sound better too whilst also giving you balanced stereo outputs for plugging some speakers into as well
> 
> Pretty much any interface by Focusrite, Apogee or RME you would be happy with, just check the interface has the inputs/outputs you want, they're all USB and all have incredibly good DAC/AMP's built in especially the Apogee ones


Anything on that site, probably the best Aus site

Aus pricing is over the top, we get charged heaps lol. I use a USB mic







so its just for headphones and my speakers, which both use 3mm jacks








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> http://resonessencelabs.com/software-updates-for-concero/
> 
> instructions are all in the manual.
> 
> you basically connect the Concero to a USB 2.0 port on your PC with a USB A to B cable (should be included). download the USB 2.0 Audio driver (link is in manual or on website). update the firmware then make it your primary device. bridge the Concero and Valhalla with a pair of RCA interconnects.I recommend you disable all Windows Event sounds. in JRiver Media Center, Foobar2000 or whatever media player just setup WASAPI or ASIO and you're ready to go.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Blue is bit-perfect and magenta is up-sampling.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pretty simple


Ah cool, thats easy, I was just wondering coz I know some home audio AMPs and stuff can be a total pita to setup


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Anything on that site, probably the best Aus site
> 
> Aus pricing is over the top, we get charged heaps lol. I use a USB mic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so its just for headphones and my speakers, which both use 3mm jacks


Ok just for an example from an Australian DJ website there's Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Price: $189.00 which to be honest isn't a bad price

I can't really pick anything off the site you listed as it's all the stuff I'm trying to convince you against buying so without checking out reviews and tests I wouldn't be able to reccomend any of those products to you, they'll do the job just fine for you I'm not arguing that, but for the price you're paying you won't hear much if any difference between those and this focusrite. Now I'm not saying some of those products aren't worth the money as I know little about their components and tests results to say so but the price vs improved audio will be so miniscule you really wouldn't notice it unless you've trained yourself to know what to listen for and even that's a stretch and any differences you do perceive yourself to hear are all in the mind


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Anything on that site, probably the best Aus site
> 
> Aus pricing is over the top, we get charged heaps lol. I use a USB mic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so its just for headphones and my speakers, which both use 3mm jacks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah cool, thats easy, I was just wondering coz I know some home audio AMPs and stuff can be a total pita to setup


the Concero is USB bus powered so all you need to do is connect it to your PC via USB.

take the vacuum tubes out of the boxes they came in and align the pins up with the socket and press down firmly (shorter tubes go in the front, taller tubes go in the back). connect the Valhalla to the Concero with a pair of RCA interconnects then plug the Valhalla into the wall and power up. tubes should start to glow shortly after.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Ok just for an example from an Australian DJ website there's Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Price: $189.00 which to be honest isn't a bad price
> 
> I can't really pick anything off the site you listed as it's all the stuff I'm trying to convince you against buying so without checking out reviews and tests I wouldn't be able to reccomend any of those products to you, they'll do the job just fine for you I'm not arguing that, but for the price you're paying you won't hear much if any difference between those and this focusrite. Now I'm not saying some of those products aren't worth the money as I know little about their components and tests results to say so but the price vs improved audio will be so miniscule you really wouldn't notice it unless you've trained yourself to know what to listen for and even that's a stretch and any differences you do perceive yourself to hear are all in the mind


Well thats much cheaper then all the others

Whats the difference between RCA and TRS anyway?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Concero is USB bus powered so all you need to do is connect it to your PC via USB.
> 
> take the vacuum tubes out of the boxes they came in and align the pins up with the socket and press down firmly (shorter tubes go in the front, taller tubes go in the back). connect the Valhalla to the Concero with a pair of RCA interconnects then plug the Valhalla into the wall and power up. tubes should start to glow shortly after.


Cool thats easy even for a n00b


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Well thats much cheaper then all the others
> 
> Whats the difference between RCA and TRS anyway?
> Cool thats easy even for a n00b


Not much apart from a balanced connection (TRS, XLR) has noise cancellation due to the cold line being out of phase and generally better shielding on the wires, whereas an RCA connection can pick up noise (electrical interference)

One thing I will say though, wait on buying any interfaces/DACs/AMPs until you have your new headphones, wait and see if you're happy with the sound from them until you go spending money for improvement you may or not perceive (and even then it's subject on whether you've convinced yourself to perceive it)


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Not much apart from a balanced connection (TRS, XLR) has noise cancellation due to the cold line being out of phase and generally better shielding on the wires, whereas an RCA connection can pick up noise (electrical interference)
> 
> One thing I will say though, wait on buying any interfaces/DACs/AMPs until you have your new headphones, wait and see if you're happy with the sound from them until you go spending money for improvement you may or not perceive (and even then it's subject on whether you've convinced yourself to perceive it)


Ah ok, makes sense

The headphones Im probably gonna buy will either be the AKG Q701 or Sennheiser HD800, thought if Im gonna buy new ones for gaming I may as well make it worth it hopefully and if they turn out to not be any better then my current AD700s at least they wont be butt ugly









Then eventually buy ones for music like metal or something with bass


----------



## Simca

Disabling windows sounds, using asaio and wasapi, using balanced outputs, this is sounding hilariously like all of that audio bc headfi sells people on.

Tell me, who has such a poor dac that they need to kill window's sounds with wasapi? Why do I need to kill window's sounds to enjoy music? How much of a difference do you hear using wasapi or asaio and balanced outputs? Are you an advocate of 32bit dacs? Do you believe in paying hundreds of dollars in cables?

Talks about audiophile snobbery and sings the praises of junk that does not give you any noticeable improvement in sq.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Disabling windows sounds, using asaio and wasapi, using balanced outputs, this is sounding hilariously like all of that audio bc headfi sells people on.
> 
> Tell me, who has such a poor dac that they need to kill window's sounds with wasapi? Why do I need to kill window's sounds to enjoy music? How much of a difference do you hear using wasapi or asaio and balanced outputs? Are you an advocate of 32bit dacs? Do you believe in paying hundreds of dollars in cables?
> 
> Talks about audiophile snobbery and sings the praises of junk that does not give you any noticeable improvement in sq.


does wasapi disable the channels the sounds are taking up? / resources?


----------



## Simca

WASAPI does nothing but silence everything on your PC other than the music player so you don't have "Dings" when you do something wrong in windows or any minimize maximize sounds you may or may not have. Supposedly it's use to stop any noise you might be receiving from Windows, but really, how many of us are complaining of noise from Windows?

In actuality, it's technically ensuring that the music is being playing back bit perfect so that if it's 44.1khz it's playing at 44.1khz instead of your set 96khz. This "technically" stops any artifacting that could have possibly been heard in the music.

But seriously, has anyone heard artifacting from setting their USB DAC to 96khz when their music is 44.1khz? I sure haven't. WASAPI has no material use.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> WASAPI does nothing but silence everything on your PC other than the music player so you don't have "Dings" when you do something wrong in windows or any minimize maximize sounds you may or may not have. Supposedly it's use to stop any noise you might be receiving from Windows, but really, how many of us are complaining of noise from Windows?
> 
> In actuality, it's technically ensuring that the music is being playing back bit perfect so that if it's 44.1khz it's playing at 44.1khz instead of your set 96khz. This "technically" stops any artifacting that could have possibly been heard in the music.
> 
> But seriously, has anyone heard artifacting from setting their USB DAC to 96khz when their music is 44.1khz? I sure haven't. WASAPI has no material use.


uh yeah because all the pro producers use wasapi


----------



## Simca

obvi.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Who uses Windows sounds anyway?







first thing I do when I reinstall is disable the stupid things









The only artifacting I've heard in my music is when I have my OC set to offset and the voltage changes suddenly









Also what do we think, should I get the AKG Q701 or Sennheiser HD800 headphones first (would my sound card even be able to power these) then DACs and AMPs or the other way round?


----------



## Simca

How do you go from Q701 to HD800. That's an enormous swing. We also don't know what you like (you might have written so on the last page, but I was too busy arguing something else to take notice).

Soundcard is not recommended for these headphones.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> How do you go from Q701 to HD800. That's an enormous swing. We also don't know what you like (you might have written so on the last page, but I was too busy arguing something else to take notice).
> 
> Soundcard is not recommended for these headphones.


Pretty much just gaming, AD700s that I have a nice but want a change and to try over ones







. I know the difference is massive between them









Didnt think so, just thought I'd ask just in case


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Disabling windows sounds, using asaio and wasapi, using balanced outputs, this is sounding hilariously like all of that audio bc headfi sells people on.
> 
> *Tell me, who has such a poor dac that they need to kill window's sounds with wasapi? Why do I need to kill window's sounds to enjoy music?* How much of a difference do you hear using wasapi or asaio and balanced outputs? Are you an advocate of 32bit dacs? Do you believe in paying hundreds of dollars in cables?
> 
> Talks about audiophile snobbery and sings the praises of junk that does not give you any noticeable improvement in sq.


1) alot of D/A converters have a muting relay in them that makes an audible click when there is a change in sample rate or drop outs. you can extend the MTBF of the relay and your sanity by disabling Windows Event sounds.
2) so you don't startle yourself with beeps or pings.


----------



## kornedbeefy

Hey all,

Looking for recommendations for closed (no sound bleeding through for others to hear) headphones for PC gaming. Price range from $60 to $150. I currently have Sennheiser HD555 so I would like at least the same quality or better.

thanks!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Looking for recommendations for closed (no sound bleeding through for others to hear) headphones for PC gaming. Price range from $60 to $150. I currently have Sennheiser HD555 so I would like at least the same quality or better.
> 
> thanks!


Audio-Technica M50? Not really great for gaming, but at that price range, you don't have much options...


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Looking for recommendations for closed (no sound bleeding through for others to hear) headphones for PC gaming. Price range from $60 to $150. I currently have Sennheiser HD555 so I would like at least the same quality or better.
> 
> thanks!


Audio Technica A700 normally ~$300, going for $140 on Amazon now. Really good set of closed-back headphones at that price.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> 1) alot of D/A converters have a muting relay in them that makes an audible click when there is a change in sample rate or drop outs. you can extend the MTBF of the relay and your sanity by disabling Windows Event sounds.
> 2) *so you don't startle yourself with beeps or pings.*


I'm sorry, but that was hilarious.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So ladies, with all this complaining, fighting comparing your little...







anyway, heres my question

Out of the so far suggested Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC or Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB 2.0 Interface 2 in 2 out which one would give me the best overall audio for headphones like the AKG Q701, Sennheiser HD800 etc etc

Im open to pretty much all suggestions on DACs & AMPs but I wont be spending a fortune on them, over $1300, they just need to be good enough for headphones and my 2.1 speakers in my sig









Thanks


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So ladies, with all this complaining, fighting comparing your little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyway, heres my question
> 
> Out of the so far suggested Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC or Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB 2.0 Interface 2 in 2 out which one would give me the best overall audio for headphones like the AKG Q701, Sennheiser HD800 etc etc
> 
> Im open to pretty much all suggestions on DACs & AMPs but I wont be spending a fortune on them, over $1300, they just need to be good enough for headphones and my 2.1 speakers in my sig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


the Scarlett wasn't designed for fidelity like the Concero and the headphone output doesn't have enough driving power.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Scarlett wasn't designed for fidelity like the Concero and the headphone output doesn't have enough driving power.


I was actually wondering if the Scarlett could supply enough power seeing its only USB


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So ladies, with all this complaining, fighting comparing your little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyway, heres my question
> 
> Out of the so far suggested Schiit Audio Valhalla Headphone Amplifier & Resonessence Labs Concero DAC or Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB 2.0 Interface 2 in 2 out which one would give me the best overall audio for headphones like the AKG Q701, Sennheiser HD800 etc etc
> 
> Im open to pretty much all suggestions on DACs & AMPs but I wont be spending a fortune on them, over $1300, they just need to be good enough for headphones and my 2.1 speakers in my sig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


The DAC & AMP won't give you a better sound, they'll give you a different sound due to the parts used adding colour/warmness to the sound due to harmonic distortion, the D to A conversion will always be the same whether it's an onboard card or a NASA super computer doing the calculation. The amp could be more useful to you to power the headphones giving you more headroom to go louder without distortion but loudness isn't always better due to the damage you can do to your hearing listening to audio above certain dB levels which I do not advise

The only way you could possibly decide which is "the best" sound for yourself would be to listen, but if you're buying HD800's you're already going to get a vast improvement in sound, although I would happily put down my house on simulating that sound with a cheaper set of headphones and replicating the HD800's frequency response with simple EQ'ing.

If you want true clarity and the best sound possible then I'd say spend an extra $1,000 and get some electrostatic earspeakers, you're not going to get a better sound using them.

How do I know ? my thesis is based on electrostatic speaker technology, it's actually a fascinating but unfortunately "niche" tech that never really took off mainstream because it's so expensive


----------



## ZealotKi11er

What are some good Bass Heavy Headphones for under $150?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> The DAC & AMP won't give you a better sound, they'll give you a different sound due to the parts used adding colour/warmness to the sound due to harmonic distortion, the D to A conversion will always be the same whether it's an onboard card or a NASA super computer doing the calculation. The amp could be more useful to you to power the headphones giving you more headroom to go louder without distortion but loudness isn't always better due to the damage you can do to your hearing listening to audio above certain dB levels which I do not advise
> 
> The only way you could possibly decide which is "the best" sound for yourself would be to listen, but if you're buying HD800's you're already going to get a vast improvement in sound, although I would happily put down my house on simulating that sound with a cheaper set of headphones and replicating the HD800's frequency response with simple EQ'ing.
> 
> If you want true clarity and the best sound possible then I'd say spend an extra $1,000 and get some electrostatic earspeakers, you're not going to get a better sound using them.
> 
> How do I know ? my thesis is based on electrostatic speaker technology, it's actually a fascinating but unfortunately "niche" tech that never really took off mainstream because it's so expensive


I was half asleep when I wrote that, ment to say power

From what Im reading the HD800s need more power then my sound card with a power cable can provide to get the most out of them and not have the sound to low

I'd rather not mess with the EQ, never worked well in the past and wouldnt that still be lacking in the sound the seeing as the drivers in the HD800s would be better quality then in cheaper ones?

Electrostatic earspeakers... probably way out of my price range, I was expecting to spend around $1300 on DACs & AMPs then $1500 for the HD800 or $400 on the AKG Q701 and then I dunno how much on other headphones for metal/rock music, so maybe 2.5 - 3k all up. I dont mind spending money but $2000 or more on headphones alone... thats over the top even for me


----------



## PappaSmurfsHarem

Is there anything similar to the ATH-AD700's but a bit cheaper?

My A700s just shot craps and I want some open cans this time. They were $89 when I bought them now AD700x and A700x are $140+


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I was half asleep when I wrote that, ment to say power
> 
> From what Im reading the HD800s need more power then my sound card with a power cable can provide to get the most out of them and not have the sound to low
> 
> I'd rather not mess with the EQ, never worked well in the past and wouldnt that still be lacking in the sound the seeing as the drivers in the HD800s would be better quality then in cheaper ones?
> 
> Electrostatic earspeakers... probably way out of my price range, I was expecting to spend around $1300 on DACs & AMPs then $1500 for the HD800 or $400 on the AKG Q701 and then I dunno how much on other headphones for metal/rock music, so maybe 2.5 - 3k all up. I dont mind spending money but $2000 or more on headphones alone... thats over the top even for me


If you're spending 2.5 to 3k for everything anyway you may as well just spend that 2.5 to 3k on a far superior set of headphones which will do everything you want and provide the best sound you will ever get in terms of clarity and precision and for that 2.5 to 3k you can easily get a pair of electrostatic earspeakers. To say it's over the top when you're spending that much on 3 items to get less quality to me just doesn't make sense. Spending that much money anyway is over the top for casual listening in my opinion unless you've trained yourself in hearing for minor details which most casual listeners will not notice and even if you are trained at some point you reach diminishing returns on spending more money for subtle differences

As for the whole EQ thing, it depends on certain variables. But providing both headphones can output equal volume without distortion then tweaking the EQ to match the frequency response of the other will result in pretty much an identical sound


----------



## bumblebee1980

I was just looking at AddictedToAudio's website and came across the Audio-GD NFB-28.

http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/audio-gd-nfb-28-sabre-es9018-dac-and-headphone-amplifier










it's a integrated solid state headphone amplifier with a pre-amplifier and D/A converter. it's got alot of digital inputs, analog inputs and outputs (balanced and unbalanced). Sabre32 DAC, gain settings, fixed and variable outputs, digital volume (180 steps, 80 steps high gain and low gain), balanced and unbalanced headphone jack, 2 ohm output impedance and the headphone amplifier has some serious power.

if you want to upgrade speakers in the future this is worth looking at.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the nice thing about the Audio-GD NFB-28 is that it has a proper pre-amplifier. you can connect this to a monoblock, power amplifier, pre-amplifier, integrated amplifier, active monitors and either control the volume with the NFB-28 (variable output) or use whatever device is connected to the NFB-28 to control the volume (fixed output). you can switch headphones to speakers just by pressing the DAC/HP button on the front without having to use any adapters or anything like that.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> If you're spending 2.5 to 3k for everything anyway you may as well just spend that 2.5 to 3k on a far superior set of headphones which will do everything you want and provide the best sound you will ever get in terms of clarity and precision and for that 2.5 to 3k you can easily get a pair of electrostatic earspeakers. To say it's over the top when you're spending that much on 3 items to get less quality to me just doesn't make sense. Spending that much money anyway is over the top for casual listening in my opinion unless you've trained yourself in hearing for minor details which most casual listeners will not notice and even if you are trained at some point you reach diminishing returns on spending more money for subtle differences
> 
> As for the whole EQ thing, it depends on certain variables. But providing both headphones can output equal volume without distortion then tweaking the EQ to match the frequency response of the other will result in pretty much an identical sound


True but those earspeakers look heavy and uncomfortable, also how are they with surround stuff like footsteps and things in games? if they are as precise or better then the HD800s are ment to be maybe I might get them but they would need to be the best all round headphone things in the world lol

I dont believe you need to spend hours, days, weeks, months training yourself specifically to hear or see things, for a job in audio its a must but after a while of just casual use you eventually start to pick things up granted yes sitting down and training yourself to pick things up you will in the end hear more but that takes to much time lol. I think of speakers, headphones etc like monitors, going from 60Hz to 120+ at first you may not be able to see it but after a while of using it your brain adjusts and you dont realize you've picked it up until you go back to 60Hz then you really notice it, its the same with audio, when I first got my AD700s I couldnt really hear that much of a difference but after a few weeks I went back to test my old Razer headset and the difference was massive.

Thats just me tho, I learn and pick things up differently to others
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I was just looking at AddictedToAudio's website and came across the Audio-GD NFB-28.
> 
> http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/audio-gd-nfb-28-sabre-es9018-dac-and-headphone-amplifier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's a integrated solid state headphone amplifier with a pre-amplifier and D/A converter. it's got alot of digital inputs, analog inputs and outputs (balanced and unbalanced). Sabre32 DAC, gain settings, fixed and variable outputs, digital volume (180 steps, 80 steps high gain and low gain), balanced and unbalanced headphone jack, 2 ohm output impedance and the headphone amplifier has some serious power.
> 
> if you want to upgrade speakers in the future this is worth looking at.


I actually looked at that earlier when I was browsing the site, Im not sure how well the combo audio stuff like that is tho so I didnt think it was worth mentioning

It looks nice and would be easier seeing its the one unit, it also seems to work out cheaper then the separate DAC and AMP to, might consider it, my current speakers connect with just a single 3.5mm jack so nothing fancy... not like probably all you guys setups








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the nice thing about the Audio-GD NFB-28 is that it has a proper pre-amplifier. you can connect this to a monoblock, power amplifier, pre-amplifier, integrated amplifier, active monitors and either control the volume with the NFB-28 (variable output) or use whatever device is connected to the NFB-28 to control the volume (fixed output). you can switch headphones to speakers just by pressing the DAC/HP button on the front without having to use any adapters or anything like that.


Thats pretty nice, easy to control and looks like pretty simple to setup to, I like just having to use one button to switch outputs. Damn nice find


----------



## bumblebee1980

the only catch..

annoying blue led



it does come with a cheap remote but there is a nice aluminum one available. not sure if AddictedToAudio sells it. you can probably buy it from Audio-GD.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the only catch..
> 
> annoying blue led
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it does come with a cheap remote but there is a nice aluminum one available. not sure if AddictedToAudio sells it. you can probably buy it from Audio-GD.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


The LED is ok, Im sure I can find a place to put it out of the way









I probably wouldnt need a remote but thanks, I'll keep it in mind

I guess the Audio-GD NFB-28 might be a better choice then everything else?


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the only catch..
> 
> annoying blue led
> 
> it does come with a cheap remote but there is a nice aluminum one available. not sure if AddictedToAudio sells it. you can probably buy it from Audio-GD.


Yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> True but those earspeakers look heavy and uncomfortable, also how are they with surround stuff like footsteps and things in games? if they are as precise or better then the HD800s are ment to be maybe I might get them but they would need to be the best all round headphone things in the world lol


Well like I said you're only going to know if you can try everything before you buy it so you really should make the effort to visit the stores when you're willing to blow so much cash, so with that being said you've got plenty of suggestions to go off and ultimately it's your decision as we're only giving you our opinion and what any one of us may think sounds good may not neccesarily sound as good to you but I'm sure whatever you pick you will be happy with the only question is whether it was the worth the money spent if you could have gotten equal happiness spending less

Let us know what you do decide though and how it all sounds

I will suggest reading this and watching this just to clear some things up for you and maybe help influence your purchasing and prevent you wasting money though


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> The LED is ok, Im sure I can find a place to put it out of the way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I probably wouldnt need a remote but thanks, I'll keep it in mind
> 
> I guess the Audio-GD NFB-28 might be a better choice then everything else?


i'm biased and like tubes more these days which sound nice with the Sennheiser HD600 and HD800. it's up to you


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Well like I said you're only going to know if you can try everything before you buy it so you really should make the effort to visit the stores when you're willing to blow so much cash, so with that being said you've got plenty of suggestions to go off and ultimately it's your decision as we're only giving you our opinion and what any one of us may think sounds good may not neccesarily sound as good to you but I'm sure whatever you pick you will be happy with the only question is whether it was the worth the money spent if you could have gotten equal happiness spending less
> 
> Let us know what you do decide though and how it all sounds
> 
> I will suggest reading this and watching this just to clear some things up for you and maybe help influence your purchasing and prevent you wasting money though


I would love to try all of this stuff but theres no shops around me that actually have any of this stuff, so I need to take risks

Thanks I'll have a look at them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> i'm biased and like tubes more these days which sound nice with the Sennheiser HD600 and HD800. it's up to you


Tubes? I thought they were there to just look good







I really am a n00b


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I would love to try all of this stuff but theres no shops around me that actually have any of this stuff, so I need to take risks
> 
> Thanks I'll have a look at them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tubes? I thought they were there to just look good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really am a n00b


Then make the effort to drive out to a city/town that has somewhere you can try them, $3k is alot for a "risk"









Tubes are great at adding colour, alot of the rock you listen to will most likely have been recorded using some tube based amps.

Bare this in mind, if you listen to something through tubes or any equipment which "enhances" the audio with headphones that don't have a flat frequency response then you're not listening to the true sound the artist/engineer originally intended and instead your own artificial version of the music, something alot of audiophiles who quest for true fidelity seem to not realise


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Addicted to Audio are Authorised Resellers of all the brands we carry and 100% of our stock is purchased from the Authorised Australian Distributors covered by the full Australian warranty.
> 
> Unlike most online retailers, we actually carry stock and we have the complete range on display with most available to audition.
> 
> STORE: Suite 4, 792-796 High St, Kew East, VIC 3102
> 03 9810 2999


I take it not in driving distance? I love my tubes







I have a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm

I think either way you will be happy. Head-Fi has alot of Australians so reselling something shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I take it not in driving distance? I love my tubes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm
> 
> I think either way you will be happy. Head-Fi has alot of Australians so reselling something shouldn't be a problem.


No way he's in another state


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Then make the effort to drive out to a city/town that has somewhere you can try them, $3k is alot for a "risk"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tubes are great at adding colour, alot of the rock you listen to will most likely have been recorded using some tube based amps.
> 
> Bare this in mind, if you listen to something through tubes or any equipment which "enhances" the audio with headphones that don't have a flat frequency response then you're not listening to the true sound the artist/engineer originally intended and instead your own artificial version of the music, something alot of audiophiles who quest for true fidelity seem to not realise


I take a lot of risks like that... 1k on watercooling and didnt really look into it









Ah ok, I just think they look cool









Atm Im looking at more gaming headphones but I will eventually buy some headphones more for the music I listen to, which I probably will take more time with... maybe








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I take it not in driving distance? I love my tubes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm
> 
> I think either way you will be happy. Head-Fi has alot of Australians so reselling something shouldn't be a problem.


Um... maybe







. Oh wow... that... that is a thing of beauty, looks like it should be in a full steampunk build









I think regardless of what I buy its probably gonna be better then my current STX and AD700s... or one would hope

Now its the hard part deciding what I actually wanna buy, the Audio-GD NFB-28 is tempting for the balanced and unbalanced lines and having it in a single unit would be much easier. Think Im off to think and find reviews









Thanks for the help guys


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I take a lot of risks like that... 1k on watercooling and didnt really look into it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok, I just think they look cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Atm Im looking at more gaming headphones but I will eventually buy some headphones more for the music I listen to, which I probably will take more time with... maybe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um... maybe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Oh wow... that... that is a thing of beauty, looks like it should be in a full steampunk build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think regardless of what I buy its probably gonna be better then my current STX and AD700s... or one would hope
> 
> Now its the hard part deciding what I actually wanna buy, the Audio-GD NFB-28 is tempting for the balanced and unbalanced lines and having it in a single unit would be much easier. Think Im off to think and find reviews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help guys


looking at the DNA Stratus and Eddie Current Zana Deux SE for my next headphone amplifier.

http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Zanadeux.html
http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Stratus-2A3-headphone-amplifier.html

good luck and let us know how it works out.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I was half asleep when I wrote that, ment to say power
> 
> From what Im reading the HD800s need more power then my sound card with a power cable can provide to get the most out of them and not have the sound to low
> 
> I'd rather not mess with the EQ, never worked well in the past and wouldnt that still be lacking in the sound the seeing as the drivers in the HD800s would be better quality then in cheaper ones?
> 
> Electrostatic earspeakers... probably way out of my price range, I was expecting to spend around $1300 on DACs & AMPs then $1500 for the HD800 or $400 on the AKG Q701 and then I dunno how much on other headphones for metal/rock music, so maybe 2.5 - 3k all up. I dont mind spending money but $2000 or more on headphones alone... thats over the top even for me


My recommendation to you is to hold off on spending all that money. Before anyone goes that deep into audio, they need to have a huge amount of knowledge and more experience with products. You don't even know if you'll like the HD800. You don't know if you'd prefer tube over SS. You don't know anything about audio period. No one should just jump into the deepend when they don't know how to swim.

Why don't you start off with a ~$240 headphone, ~$300 DAC/AMP and see where you want to go from there. A fraction of your budget and you'll be getting most of what you would from a high end headphone, DAC and Amp. You can decide if you want to go deeper from there. Even going with the AKG Q701 anda DAC/AMP combo that'd suit them would be a great start. From there visit head-fi, go to meets, perhaps audition headphones via purchasing and returning them etc.

Don't drop 2-3k when you don't even know what 2-300 sounds like.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> My recommendation to you is to hold off on spending all that money. Before anyone goes that deep into audio, they need to have a huge amount of knowledge and more experience with products. You don't even know if you'll like the HD800. You don't know if you'd prefer tube over SS. You don't know anything about audio period. No one should just jump into the deepend when they don't know how to swim.
> 
> Why don't you start off with a ~$240 headphone, ~$300 DAC/AMP and see where you want to go from there. A fraction of your budget and you'll be getting most of what you would from a high end headphone, DAC and Amp. You can decide if you want to go deeper from there. Even going with the AKG Q701 anda DAC/AMP combo that'd suit them would be a great start. From there visit head-fi, go to meets, perhaps audition headphones via purchasing and returning them etc.
> 
> Don't drop 2-3k when you don't even know what 2-300 sounds like.


Thats fair enough, what cheaper stuff would you recommend then?


----------



## Simca

You already had your eyes set on the Q701. That's a great starting headphone.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thats fair enough, what cheaper stuff would you recommend then?


you can't help living in Australia and why beat around the bush? Schiit Bifrost, Resonessence Labs Concero, Audio-GD NFB-28, AKG Q701, Sennheiser HD600 are all Mid level products. you already invested in the Audio Technica AD700 and Asus Xonar Essence STX. if I had a DeLorean I would go back and tell myself to buy the Audeze LCD-3.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You already had your eyes set on the Q701. That's a great starting headphone.


What about external DAC/AMP or is the STX good enough
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you can't help living in Australia and why beat around the bush? Schiit Bifrost, Resonessence Labs Concero, Audio-GD NFB-28, AKG Q701, Sennheiser HD600 are all Mid level products. you already invested in the Audio Technica AD700 and Asus Xonar Essence STX. if I had a DeLorean I would go back and tell myself to buy the Audeze LCD-3.


Arnt the Audeze LCD-3 something like 2k?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> What about external DAC/AMP or is the STX good enough
> Arnt the Audeze LCD-3 something like 2k?


it's not good enough. the Sennheiser HD600 and AKG Q701 scale well with better equipment.

I own the Audeze LCD-3 and Sennheiser HD600, Mytek Stereo 192 DSD, MHDT Steeplechase, Decware Zen Taboo MKIII, Burson HA-160, Graham Slee Novo, Fostex PM841 studio monitors. years ago when I got into headphones I started with a cheap pair of Sennheisers or Shures and a sound card. the import tax, shipping and resell value add up.


----------



## Simca

Part of the audio experience is enjoying the journey along the way. You're more appreciative every step you move up.

Something like the Schiit Modi/Magni or ODAC/O2 amp will more than suffice. You could also try to pair them with the Aune T1 or some such tube like amp, but I won't recommend it as I haven't heard it.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> What about external DAC/AMP or is the STX good enough
> Arnt the Audeze LCD-3 something like 2k?


Baby steps

Go for headphones first, see how they sound on your STX.

If you're satisfied with the sound then stay with what you've got until you're bored and want a change, if you want more then look into a DAC if you're so intent on buying one, although an interface which is cheaper does exactly the same job as any of the stupidly expensive DAC's out there on the market

Before buying doing a search in google for as much info as you can possibly find


----------



## Simca

Buying a Modi/Magni is significant enough of a jump to warrant buying them now over the STX, but I suggest you try both one after the other so you can hear the difference between the two and so you can appreciate moving away from soundcards.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Baby steps
> 
> Go for headphones first, see how they sound on your STX.
> 
> If you're satisfied with the sound then stay with what you've got until you're bored and want a change, if you want more then look into a DAC if you're so intent on buying one, although an interface which is cheaper does exactly the same job as any of the stupidly expensive DAC's out there on the market
> 
> Before buying doing a search in google for as much info as you can possibly find


But... but... baby steps are boring









I kinda wanna take my STX out and change to external stuff, the STX is good but its becoming a pain with some of my internal plans

Checking up heaps really isnt the way I do stuff, I kinda more just buy it and go with it, work out as I go along
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Buying a Modi/Magni is significant enough of a jump to warrant buying them now over the STX, but I suggest you try both one after the other so you can hear the difference between the two and so you can appreciate moving away from soundcards.


I cant really try stuff as I dont have many shops around me that stock good quality stuff and the shops that do are 3 - 4 hours away and a pita to get to, I will check reviews and stuff like I normally but like I just said I do wanna remove my sound card and go external


----------



## OC'ing Noob

I see that the LCD-2 has been recommended and wanted to chime in and say that I love my LCD-2's a lot. They are considered by many to be great all-rounders in the high end market.


----------



## rovopio

if i have budget of $70~$80 maximum budget initially. But... I could stretch it to $140 maximum if it will be amazingly better. and the list of speakers available in my city are as follows...

*Within my budget*
Creative Inspire T10 2.0 Speaker $56
Thonet & Vander .vertag - 2.0 $75
Swans Hivi 3W Mini Desktop 2.0 Speaker $80

*Can spare a little*
Creative Gigaworks T20 Series II $105
Swans Hivi M10 2.1 Multimedia Speaker $121 (cons : too big for my small 120x60cm table)
Thonet & Vander .kurbis - 2.0 $120

*willing to spend if its amazingly better*
Creative Gigaworks T40 $147
Swans Hivi D1010-IV $160
JBL Spot $153

and the music i listen to are genres of West Indie Folk / Indie Pop / Indie Rock and Japanese Club Jazz.
I'd like a speaker that could bring the best out of these kinds of songs...
Quote:


> Frightened Rabbit Representative song
> 
> 
> 
> Slow Club Rep Song
> 
> 
> 
> JP Clubjazz Rep Song
> 
> 
> 
> Another fairly different style frightened rabbit song


which speakers would you guys recommend i should get?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rovopio*
> 
> if i have budget of $70~$80 maximum budget initially. But... I could stretch it to $140 maximum if it will be amazingly better. and the list of speakers available in my city are as follows...
> 
> *Within my budget*
> Creative Inspire T10 2.0 Speaker $56
> Thonet & Vander .vertag - 2.0 $75
> Swans Hivi 3W Mini Desktop 2.0 Speaker $80
> 
> *Can spare a little*
> Creative Gigaworks T20 Series II $105
> Swans Hivi M10 2.1 Multimedia Speaker $121 (cons : too big for my small 120x60cm table)
> Thonet & Vander .kurbis - 2.0 $120
> 
> *willing to spend if its amazingly better*
> Creative Gigaworks T40 $147
> Swans Hivi D1010-IV $160
> JBL Spot $153
> 
> and the music i listen to are genres of West Indie Folk / Indie Pop / Indie Rock and Japanese Club Jazz.
> I'd like a speaker that could bring the best out of these kinds of songs...
> which speakers would you guys recommend i should get?


Swans D1080?


----------



## rovopio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Swans D1080?


budget only $80 and $150 if i force myself to it. and from those there are only 3 swans i could get. the portable swans s3w for $80, the 2.1 swans m10 for $121) and swans d1010 for $160.

Swans D1080 cost $240 noooo


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rovopio*
> 
> budget only $80 and $150 if i force myself to it. and from those there are only 3 swans i could get. the portable swans s3w for $80, the 2.1 swans m10 for $121) and swans d1010 for $160.
> 
> Swans D1080 cost $240 noooo


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rovopio*
> 
> willing to spend if its amazingly better
> Creative Gigaworks T40 $147
> *Swans Hivi D1010-IV $160*
> JBL Spot $153
> 
> and the music i listen to are genres of West Indie Folk / Indie Pop / Indie Rock and Japanese Club Jazz.
> I'd like a speaker that could bring the best out of these kinds of songs...
> which speakers would you guys recommend i should get?


sorry I meant the D1010. I owned a pair of M10 a really long time ago and checked out the M200MKIII.


----------



## rovopio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> sorry I meant the D1010. I owned a pair of M10 a really long time ago and checked out the M200MKIII.


i totally forgot to put edifier R1280T on the option. http://www.edifier-international.com/products/edifier-studio/studio-1280t

that's the one speaker i really like the aesthetics. and it only cost $90. i like Swans M10 too but my wall is too... thin next to the neighbors and my table is too small. so. it's between edifier r1280t vs any of the creative T 10/20/40 and D1010-IV...

do you think the price difference between say, a creative T20 / edifier r1280T to D1010-IV ($40~70) and the decent wood finish aesthetics of r1280t worth to pass over and get D1010-IV instead?
is it more amazing than a $100 creative / edifier...

im fully aware sound is subjective, but i just wanna know more of your opinion


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rovopio*
> 
> i totally forgot to put edifier R1280T on the option. http://www.edifier-international.com/products/edifier-studio/studio-1280t
> 
> that's the one speaker i really like the aesthetics. and it only cost $90. i like Swans M10 too but my wall is too... thin next to the neighbors and my table is too small. so. it's between edifier r1280t vs any of the creative T 10/20/40 and D1010-IV...
> 
> do you think the price difference between say, a creative T20 / edifier r1280T to D1010-IV ($40~70) and the decent wood finish aesthetics of r1280t worth to pass over and get D1010-IV instead?
> is it more amazing than a $100 creative / edifier...
> 
> im fully aware sound is subjective, but i just wanna know more of your opinion


I can't speak for the Edifier. one thing the Edifier has going for it is a cheap remote and it's front firing so you can place it closer to a wall without it sounding too boomy.


----------



## rovopio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I can't speak for the Edifier. one thing the Edifier has going for it is a cheap remote and it's front firing so you can place it closer to a wall without it sounding too boomy.


hows the swans you had? is it good generally speaking.. or is it good with the kind of music i listen to? do you happen to like the same kind of music as well?


----------



## bumblebee1980

one more thing. isolation wedges will angle the speakers properly and decouple the speaker from the desk so you don't get any unwanted energy. make sure you order a pair.

http://www.foambymail.com/MIW/monitor-isolation-wedge.html
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rovopio*
> 
> hows the swans you had? is it good generally speaking.. or is it good with the kind of music i listen to? do you happen to like the same kind of music as well?


I have a lousy music memory. I haven't owned a pair of Swan speakers in a really long time. I listen to classic rock, hard rock, alternative, metal, heavy metal, etc.


----------



## bumblebee1980

these are what I have now

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/PM841.shtml

oh and get a pack of lip isolation wedges.










(you can also turn the wedges around so the speaker is angled down)


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> These wedges improve the accuracy and clarity of your equipment by separating them from the mounting surface


I'm sorry but what ?

They will cancel out vibrations maybe, depends how good the material is at absorbing vibration but they won't improve accuracy or clarity of speakers, not to mention the angling will just create issues with incredibly horrible reflections bouncing off your ceiling or floor or even the desk (which defeats the whole point of the wedges in the first place) depending how you angle them

Better spend your money on a good set of stands if you want the speakers aimed at your head


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> I'm sorry but what ?
> 
> They will cancel out vibrations maybe, depends how good the material is at absorbing vibration but they won't improve accuracy or clarity of speakers, not to mention the angling will just create issues with incredibly horrible reflections bouncing off your ceiling or floor or even the desk (which defeats the whole point of the wedges in the first place) depending how you angle them
> 
> Better spend your money on a good set of stands if you want the speakers aimed at your head


the isolation wedges are better than nothing. a pair of stands will probably cost as much as the speakers.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the isolation wedges are better than nothing. a pair of stands will probably cost as much as the speakers.


You shouldn't need to spend more than ~100 on stands.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the isolation wedges are better than nothing. a pair of stands will probably cost as much as the speakers.


Depends on where he can position the speakers really, best is to avoid the desk completely with or without those wedges any form of angling on the vertical axis for speakers may remove vibration but will cause various other acoustic problems, although it depends entirely on how much he's driving speakers, you'll only really get noticeable vibration at higher volume levels

You can get some cheap stands which would hold up better than those wedges to be honest, just make sure they're floor stands and not those pointless little stands you put on a desk as they truely are pointless, you may as well stand your speakers on books for all the good those desk stands do.


----------



## bumblebee1980

these speakers cost $90 most people are not going to put diffusers on the rear wall or make 703 and 705 absorption panels and clouds. nobody cares about reflections, standing waves or comb filtering. it's all german to them.


----------



## Simca

No one really cares about all of that junk because it's really not that much of an issue. Just a bunch of audiophiles QQ'ing for potentially "scientifically" better quality that no one really ever hears. I can't imagine how loud my speakers would have to be playing for them to shake my table. Even then, my subwoofer would put out larger waves than that and shake the floor and thus the stands, so I'm confused how even stands will do a great job if the mission is to stop vibrations (at least if you're on the 2nd floor of the house).


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> these speakers cost $90 most people are not going to put diffusers on the rear wall or make 703 and 705 absorption panels and clouds. nobody cares about reflections, standing waves or comb filtering. it's all german to them.


And where did I suggest any of that ? I was trying to save him some money by not buying a completely pointless item which only creates more problems than it solves

But in all honesty after looking at the speakers he wants to buy (Rubbish to be honest) they're only 21W so won't be loud at all and won't create much if any vibration


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No one really cares about all of that junk because it's really not that much of an issue. Just a bunch of audiophiles QQ'ing for potentially "scientifically" better quality that no one really ever hears. I can't imagine how loud my speakers would have to be playing for them to shake my table. Even then, my subwoofer would put out larger waves than that and shake the floor and thus the stands, so I'm confused how even stands will do a great job if the mission is to stop vibrations (at least if you're on the 2nd floor of the house).


it is an issue when you buy cheap Polk towers off newegg and put them in a small office or bedroom with no acoustic treatment. you can hear the room more than the speaker. excess energy building in the walls, reverb and issues with the speaker imaging.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> And where did I suggest any of that ? I was trying to save him some money by not buying a completely pointless item which only creates more problems than it solves
> 
> But in all honesty after looking at the speakers he wants to buy (Rubbish to be honest) they're only 21W so won't be loud at all and won't create much if any vibration


it's not pointless. it will help image the speaker and absorb vibration.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's not pointless. it will help image the speaker and absorb vibration.


They're 21W speakers, there won't be any vibration worthy of absorption, as for helping to image the speaker do you even know what that means ? As I already said, angling a speaker on the vertical axis does nothing but create issues with reflection therefore destroying any image the speaker produces within the soundstage


----------



## bumblebee1980

did you take the surface or room into consideration? the Edifier active monitors have a sensitivity of 85 dB @ 1w/1m with a 42 watt Class D amplifier and should be able to easily output 97 dB.

he needs to get the speakers setup properly before doing anything else. The Edifier Studio 1280T cost $90 so hes not going to buy stands.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> did you take the surface or room into consideration? the Edifier active monitors have a sensitivity of 85 dB @ 1w/1m with a 42 watt Class D amplifier and should be able to easily output 97 dB.


Where did you get that ?

Their own site lists each speaker as 21W with no mention of what class the amp is, so each speaker is capable of 98.2dB but that's pushing it

So I don't know where you're getting this 42W (They are 42W RMS) Class D amplifier stuff from


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Where did you get that ?
> 
> Their own site lists each speaker as 21W with no mention of what class the amp is, so each speaker is capable of 98.2dB but that's pushing it
> 
> So I don't know where you're getting this 42W (They are 42W RMS) Class D amplifier stuff from


deduction. Edifier is a large company and uses Class D amplifiers in other active monitors. every +3 dB you need double the power so 85 dB SPL = 1 watt, 88 dB SPL = 2 watts, 91 dB = 4 watts, 94 dB = 8 watts, 97 dB = 16 watts, 100 dB = 32 watts and so on.

I don't understand why you're willing to go down with the ship? it is possible when shifting around in a chair to lose upper frequencies if speakers are not leveled correctly. if he has a small glass desk and the speakers are at chest level he might as well put them on the floor. isolation wedges will help angle the speakers and prevent any vibrations. brand name isolation wedges like Auralex cost $30 and stands like IsoAcoustics are too expensive.


----------



## gauchotodd

I was just looking over the Audiophile-recommended Audio Interfaces on the OP of this thread and noted that the AudioQuest DragonFly is now $99 on Amazon. Being at this price point, is there any other DAC/amp of any form factor under $300 that even comes close to comparing to its quality or value?


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gauchotodd*
> 
> I was just looking over the Audiophile-recommended Audio Interfaces on the OP of this thread and noted that the AudioQuest DragonFly is now $99 on Amazon. Being at this price point, is there any other DAC/amp of any form factor under $300 that even comes close to comparing to its quality or value?


Lots of equipment under $300 compares in quality, even at $100 I think. The main draw of the Dragonfly is its tiny form factor. Right now, the Aune T1 is on sale on Massdrop for $130 and solidly outperforms it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gauchotodd*
> 
> I was just looking over the Audiophile-recommended Audio Interfaces on the OP of this thread and noted that the AudioQuest DragonFly is now $99 on Amazon. Being at this price point, is there any other DAC/amp of any form factor under $300 that even comes close to comparing to its quality or value?


ALO Island and Light Harmonic Geek Out are interesting. Teradak comes to mind. pretty big second hand market. it's kind of a loaded question. I bought my dad a Dragonfly for his laptop and I would buy another for $99.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the ALO Island is $299.. balanced and unbalanced headphone output, way more driving power than the Dragonfly, gain controls, analog volume pot (Dragonfly is digital), aluminum chassis in different colours.

http://www.aloaudio.com/amplifiers/the-island

very impressive.

edit: http://mustgeekout.com/#preorder_today


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Back to bug you hopefully with a simpler questions









The Xonar STX does have enough power for the Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm Edition am I right?

Also what would be a good easy to use AMP/DAC for said headphones, just out of curiosity









Thanks


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Back to bug you hopefully with a simpler questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Xonar STX does have enough power for the Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm Edition am I right?
> 
> Also what would be a good easy to use AMP/DAC for said headphones, just out of curiosity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Yes it can drive them, but an external DAC/Amp combo would be better for quality.

Here are some nice options:

Schiit Magni + Modi:
http://schiit.com/products/magni
http://schiit.com/products/modi

Schiit Bifrost + Valhalla:
schiit.com/products/bifrost
http://schiit.com/products/valhalla

O2 DAC/Amp combo:
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Back to bug you hopefully with a simpler questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Xonar STX does have enough power for the Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm Edition am I right?
> 
> Also what would be a good easy to use AMP/DAC for said headphones, just out of curiosity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Price point? Might wanna ask the headphone/earphone club too.

$100 - iBasso D-Zero or Fiio E07K
$150 - try to find a Schiit Magni/Modi used.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yes it can drive them, but an external DAC/Amp combo would be better for quality.
> 
> Here are some nice options:
> 
> Schiit Magni + Modi:
> http://schiit.com/products/magni
> http://schiit.com/products/modi
> 
> Schiit Bifrost + Valhalla:
> schiit.com/products/bifrost
> http://schiit.com/products/valhalla
> 
> O2 DAC/Amp combo:
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/


Cool thanks








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Price point? Might wanna ask the headphone/earphone club too.
> 
> $100 - iBasso D-Zero or Fiio E07K
> $150 - try to find a Schiit Magni/Modi used.


What price point?









Anything under $500 I suppose

Should also mention I'd need a way to connect my speakers, single 3.5mm jack


----------



## phillyd

HRT Music Streamer II + Schiit Valhalla.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Back to bug you hopefully with a simpler questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Xonar STX does have enough power for the Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm Edition am I right?
> 
> Also what would be a good easy to use AMP/DAC for said headphones, just out of curiosity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Objective Combo

JDSLabs C5D

Schiit Magni and Modi


----------



## funfortehfun

I'd like to ask some questions as to audio for SFF gaming rigs - I have no experience with them, and I'm sure that you guys know everything! 

So, for a mini-ITX rig - sound cards are out of the question with a dedicated GPU. How would I go hooking up, say, a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro? I don't quite understand amps and DACs either, like the Schiit Magni/Modi. Would the audio quality be comparable in the end to a dedicated sound card like the Asus Xonar DX?

Thanks!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> HRT Music Streamer II + Schiit Valhalla.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Objective Combo
> JDSLabs C5D
> Schiit Magni and Modi


Thanks guys I'll have a look

I can get the Modi & Magni for $355 or Schiit Audio Valhalla & Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC No USB for $979, Im guessing theres a big difference between both setups?


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thanks guys I'll have a look
> 
> I can get the Modi & Magni for $355 or Schiit Audio Valhalla & Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC No USB for $979, Im guessing theres a big difference between both setups?


Valhalla being a tube amp, that is one big difference already, yes


----------



## phillyd

Schiit Vali and Schiit Modi would be a good alternate option if you really want a tube amp.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Valhalla being a tube amp, that is one big difference already, yes


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Schiit Vali and Schiit Modi would be a good alternate option if you really want a tube amp.


I dunno what I want atm, I dont know how tubes change the sound, Im gonna try and learn about this stuff









Im a n00b


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Valhalla being a tube amp, that is one big difference already, yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Schiit Vali and Schiit Modi would be a good alternate option if you really want a tube amp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dunno what I want atm, I dont know how tubes change the sound, Im gonna try and learn about this stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im a n00b
Click to expand...

Tubes sound warm (ie they boost the mids) and other harmonic stuffs to music. Some like them, some do not.
They basically aren't for the 100% accurate representation of music - but rather changing music in a subtle way to be more appeasing to the user.

The difference between the magni/modi and bifrost/valhala isnt HUGE, it'd be more like 15-25% due to the fact as the higher quality you want out of your music, you are going to pay exponentially more to get that little bit extra.

If money really isn't an object, then the Bifrost + valhala will be a better buy, especially with something like the HD800. However the magni+modi will fine, although the modi is slightly harsh/sharp.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funfortehfun*
> 
> I'd like to ask some questions as to audio for SFF gaming rigs - I have no experience with them, and I'm sure that you guys know everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, for a mini-ITX rig - sound cards are out of the question with a dedicated GPU. How would I go hooking up, say, a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro? I don't quite understand amps and DACs either, like the Schiit Magni/Modi. Would the audio quality be comparable in the end to a dedicated sound card like the Asus Xonar DX?
> Thanks!


better.


----------



## SaLX

Any chance we could update the guide? Frankly it's looking a little long in the tooth.


----------



## mossberg385t

Im surprised Yamaha Monitors aren't on the list o.0


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mossberg385t*
> 
> Im surprised Yamaha Monitors aren't on the list o.0


Yeah let's put on the 1035B's while we're at it


----------



## mossberg385t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yeah let's put on the 1035B's while we're at it


I mean there are KRKs and no HS50m or the like

Theres also no Sonodyne


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mossberg385t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Yeah let's put on the 1035B's while we're at it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean there are KRKs and no HS50m or the like
> 
> Theres also no Sonodyne
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic.

This is most recommended, not best.


----------



## mossberg385t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I was being sarcastic.
> 
> This is most recommended, not best.


Fair enough


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaLX*
> 
> Any chance we could update the guide? Frankly it's looking a little long in the tooth.


Could you translate that to American.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Could you translate that to American.


It's getting old.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> It's getting old.


According to my sources the british to American translation for that is it's too lengthy.

That said it's updated as frequently as it need be and doesn't need to be updated anymore than it currently is. I could do a format change, but that'd be a lot of work I'm not up to atm.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Nope. Just old.


----------



## Simca

Oh okay, so he's just wrong then, that's good.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Didn't you just reformat it?


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *funfortehfun*
> 
> I'd like to ask some questions as to audio for SFF gaming rigs - I have no experience with them, and I'm sure that you guys know everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, for a mini-ITX rig - sound cards are out of the question with a dedicated GPU. How would I go hooking up, say, a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro? I don't quite understand amps and DACs either, like the Schiit Magni/Modi. Would the audio quality be comparable in the end to a dedicated sound card like the Asus Xonar DX?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> better.
Click to expand...

No, it would be way better!


----------



## Vogs

I recently broke my Sennheiser PC 360, so I'm in a new market for a headset/ headphone + mic solution.

Notes about me:
-Most important thing to me is microphone quality, when I'm on teamspeak, ventrilo or skype I want to sound clear and 'professional'. I play a lot of MMOs and other games that require communications while I'm spamming my (MX Red) keyboard, so I'm looking for something that picks up my voice without picking up the keyboard spam, which the 360 did fairly well.
-I have them on quite a lot, about 4 hours per day, more in the weekend
-I'm using my motherboard (realtek) drivers as sound input
-Budget is 100-200 euro
-I mainly listen to podcasts and audiobooks, don't really listen to music that often.

I was thinking of getting the new G4ME ZERO because I think I'd like the memory leather pads, but have been reading some negative things about it which makes me lean more towards the G4ME ONE.

I tried the Zalman mic + headphone recommendation and I'm not that impressed by the mic quality. I'm concerned that standalone mics like the Blue Yeti will pick up my keyboard spam too much if I place it to the side of my monitor, and I'd rather not have something on the desk between me and my keyboard.


----------



## funfortehfun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *billbartuska*
> No, it would be way better!


Thanks for the help, guys. How do I connect the DT990 Pro to the Schiit Magni and Modi?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *funfortehfun*
> 
> Thanks for the help, guys. How do I connect the DT990 Pro to the Schiit Magni and Modi?


you need a USB Type A to B cable



Schiit sells a pair of RCA interconnects.



now just plug the Beyerdynamic headphones into the Schiit Magni and turn it on by flipping the I/O switch on the back. you should hear a click.

edit: cleaned up


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you need a USB Type A to B cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schiit sells a pair of RCA interconnects.


The paint god strikes again!









Seriously this time, does the interconnect come with the modi and magni when you buy it?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> The paint god strikes again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously this time, does the interconnect come with the modi and magni when you buy it?


I don't think so.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> The paint god strikes again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously this time, does the interconnect come with the modi and magni when you buy it?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so.
Click to expand...

No, but you can buy them on the Schiit site.
http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables

Or just buy them locally, really doesn't matter.


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> The paint god strikes again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously this time, does the interconnect come with the modi and magni when you buy it?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but you can buy them on the Schiit site.
> http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables
> 
> Or just buy them locally, really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

monoprice

Best price for quality cables.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Monoprice RCA interconnects are a little tight and stiff for my liking but I guess you can't complain for the price.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Monoprice RCA interconnects are a little tight and stiff for my liking but I guess you can't complain for the price.


The premium ones aren't stiff at all, but the RCA connector itself is tight.


----------



## bumblebee1980

looks like Schiit sells USB Type A to B cable now. Blue Jeans makes good cables too and provides data like capacitance.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *billbartuska*
> 
> No, it would be way better!


On the DAC side of things this is not true, all A to D is identical no matter the DAC, all it would be is identical providing there is no noise entering the card. If it was 20 years ago where the was a massive difference between DAC technology then I could agree with you, but pretty much all modern DAC units, whether obboard or external are capable of 96khz audio which is beyond the spectrum of human hearing anyway, any rate past the standard 44100hz sample rate you will not hear a difference no matter how attuned your ears are for listening audio it is physically impossible.

Now when it comes to the amp stage all that will happen is the sound will be different not scientifically "better" as that is nothing more than subjective opinion, so he could get the Schiit AMP but just get a cheaper unit which does the A to D converting, however if his card has enough noise filtering and cancelling he may only need the AMP but getting an external DAC unit whether it's a Schiit (overpriced in my opinion) or a cheaper interface doesn't hurt but I'd always suggest baby steps in this process, headphones first, then upgrade the card, then upgrade for an amp etc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> deduction. Edifier is a large company and uses Class D amplifiers in other active monitors. every +3 dB you need double the power so 85 dB SPL = 1 watt, 88 dB SPL = 2 watts, 91 dB = 4 watts, 94 dB = 8 watts, 97 dB = 16 watts, 100 dB = 32 watts and so on.


Sorry for not replying sooner I unsubbed from the thread so didn't see you'd replied.

Where did you get the 42W amplifier from though each speaker only has a 21W amp built into them and don't forget that pushing for 97dB on those speakers will be driving them to within their limits which I would never advise anyone to do with their speakers unless they want shorten the lifespan, so if we're using these speakers at a reasonable sound level then there will be minimal vibration and no need for said padding. However at only $15 or whatever it was per pad if he's prepared to spend that money then it's not so much of a loss but I still say they're not needed and any positives you claim to get from them will be incredibly minor and not needed. But I respect your opinion and you appear to have a decent grasp on audio theory which is more than can be said for some people who consider themselves pseudo audio specialists


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> On the DAC side of things this is not true, all A to D is identical no matter the DAC


I used to believe that to.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *billbartuska*
> 
> I used to believe that to.


Please show me something scientific that proves this and I will happily believe it.




Skip to 41 minutes in, he compares a $25 soundcard to an external unit worth $1200 and that's second hand prices (can't buy it anymore)

There is no difference in sound between the 2 using a standard scientific process to prove this

To be honest the whole video is worth watching for anyone interested in Audio theory and the myths audiophiles like spout like it's gospel


----------



## bumblebee1980

I have already seen it. people should experience these things for themselves and not take what Ethan Winer or nwavguy say at face value.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have already seen it. people should experience these things for themselves and not take what Ethan Winer or nwavguy say at face value.


So you're just going to throw scientific fact out of the window ?

Ethan Winer is part of the AES, AES are the authority on all things audio and help to set the standards for all the equipment we use, and from what I can tell nwavguy knows his stuff when it comes to Audio theory and electronics, so are you now saying what they say is fiction despite the fact they can back it up with solid scientific basis or are you going to tell us the science behind it all is wrong ?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> So you're just going to throw scientific fact out of the window ?
> 
> Ethan Winer is part of the AES, AES are the authority on all things audio and help to set the standards for all the equipment we use, and from what I can tell nwavguy knows his stuff when it comes to Audio theory and electronics, so are you now saying what they say is fiction despite the fact they can back it up with solid scientific basis or are you going to tell us the science behind it all is wrong ?


no. please don't put words in my mouth. i'm saying people should experience these products for themselves. I want people to stop using Ethan Winer or nwavguy to reinforce an argument.

people on this forum have no respect for each other. it's non stop arguing. I used to think HiFi on a computer tech forum could work but i'm not so sure anymore.


----------



## mikeaj

Ethan Winer's a respected studio guy, electronics tech, author, presenter, etc., not particularly an expert in psychoacoustics, electrical engineering, etc. Lots of AES members are mistaken about a lot of things. I wouldn't go for appeal to authority here. Anyway, I don't see why the message doesn't stand for itself.

People should be able to reason things and experience things for themselves, yes. In fact, the video contains a link to the audio samples in the presentation, so you can listen to those for yourself (for example, how far do you need to go at a normal listening level to hear the reduction in bit depth?). Just make sure to have realistic interpretations of experiences in consideration of the fallibility of perception. Or listen and test in ways that control for those things.

Also, why are we talking about A to D when referring to DACs? Do you mean D to A or do you mean ADCs? Also, if you want to go by the principles outlined in the videos (which is good but generally contains some simplifications for easier understanding) different DACs and ADCs do perform differently in those areas, so features / price / aesthetics aside, they're still not all the same. Just sometimes or frequently the performance is not much different and not necessarily by human-significant amounts.


----------



## Simca

It doesn't work when you introduce people with extreme opinions that think if you dump 2000 into a dac you're going to get 2000 sound or if you spend 25 dollars on a sound card it's going to sound the same as a 2000 USB dac.

People spamming audio myth videos and claiming it as the gospel when easy real life tests like using a sound card Vs using a USB dac will quickly tell you they don't sound the same.

Some people are better off unsubscribing.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> no. please don't put words in my mouth. i'm saying people should experience these products for themselves. I want people to stop using Ethan Winer or nwavguy to reinforce an argument.


I can't help it if they're the ones who provide the science.

Now don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with some of the high end gear you guys use and I'm not saying to change it all for cheaper stuff. All I'm trying to do is offer cheaper alternatives for people who may not want to waste hundreds and even thousands of $'s just for some extra harmonic distortion in their music as it isn't for everybody which is why I always advocate trying out the gear for yourself first.

But I do not agree when some just says get X because it's better when in reality the truth is it's not better it's just different, Audio is always a tricky subject to discuss as ALOT of it goes beyond the realms of science and into subjective opinion

I will however say there are some products worth the money, like the HD800's
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It doesn't work when you introduce people with extreme opinions that think if you dump 2000 into a dac you're going to get 2000 sound or if you spend 25 dollars on a sound card it's going to sound the same as a 2000 USB dac.
> 
> People spamming audio myth videos and claiming it as the gospel when easy real life tests like using a sound card Vs using a USB dac will quickly tell you they don't sound the same.
> 
> Some people are better off unsubscribing.


I've asked numerous times for evidence to disprove what I'm saying yet no one comes up with it, I'm the only actually providing scientific tests to support what I believe to be true yet everyone else who's claiming these hundred and thousand $ DAC's are superior won't show any evidence to support their claims. Yet I'm the villain here ?

It's plainly obvious that there's no use trying to have a civil discussion with audiophiles as they won't listen and have a horribly elitest attitude. I'm happy to change my mind on the subject if presented with scientific evidence that supports a claim. The only reason I want to stay subbed is to try save people who have no idea, some money


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> I can't help it if they're the ones who provide the science.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with some of the high end gear you guys use and I'm not saying to change it all for cheaper stuff. All I'm trying to do is offer cheaper alternatives for people who may not want to waste hundreds and even thousands of $'s just for some extra harmonic distortion in their music as it isn't for everybody which is why I always advocate trying out the gear for yourself first.
> 
> But I do not agree when some just says get X because it's better when in reality the truth is it's not better it's just different, Audio is always a tricky subject to discuss as ALOT of it goes beyond the realms of science and into subjective opinion
> 
> I will however say there are some products worth the money, like the HD800's
> I've asked numerous times for evidence to disprove what I'm saying yet no one comes up with it, I'm the only actually providing scientific tests to support what I believe to be true yet everyone else who's claiming these hundred and thousand $ DAC's are superior won't show any evidence to support their claims. Yet I'm the villain here ?
> 
> It's plainly obvious that there's no use trying to have a civil discussion with audiophiles as they won't listen and have a horribly elitest attitude. I'm happy to change my mind on the subject if presented with scientific evidence that supports a claim. The only reason I want to stay subbed is to try save people who have no idea, some money


Your science means nothing when cheap practical experience ruins your argument. Noone here agrees a 25 dollar sound card sounds the same as a 150 USB dac. This alone ruins your point that all dacs do the same thing and sound the same. We don't need to show you a chart to prove that. If I go create a chart and have an audio expert sign his name on it are you magically accepting of his opinion?


----------



## bumblebee1980

it's not even about Ethan Winer.

the minute someone brings up a controversial subject like power conditioning or cables.. there is _the monoprice guy_, _the troll guy_, _the guy that has no idea what hes talking about but means well_, _the two guys that can't stop arguing_, _the guy that can't afford the cable so takes a premature stance_. it's so predictable.

or the multiple threads on that silly teksyndicate video. I asked people nicely to post in the proper threads and they still derailed the Club Thread.

it never ends well. all this has happened before. all this will happen again! people on HiFi Forums treat each other like adults. LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR FOR FRAK SAKES lol


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It doesn't work when you introduce people with extreme opinions that think if you dump 2000 into a dac you're going to get 2000 sound or if you spend 25 dollars on a sound card it's going to sound the same as a 2000 USB dac.
> 
> People spamming audio myth videos and claiming it as the gospel when easy real life tests like using a sound card Vs using a USB dac will quickly tell you they don't sound the same.
> 
> Some people are better off unsubscribing.


It all depends on which DAC / soundcard and how they're used as well or what you need to use them for.

Also I cannot provide more experience than the difference between the onboard 892 and xonar dx. I haven't owned another DAC


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Your science means nothing


Got it

Thanks, that's all I needed to know
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> it's not even about Ethan Winer.
> 
> the minute someone brings up a controversial subject like power conditioning or cables.. there is _the monoprice guy_, _the troll guy_, _the guy that has no idea what hes talking about but means well_, _the two guys that can't stop arguing_, _the guy that can't afford the cable so takes a premature stance_. it's so predictable.
> 
> or the multiple threads on that silly teksyndicate video. I asked people nicely to post in the proper threads and they still derailed the Club Thread.
> 
> it never ends well. all this has happened before. all this will happen again! people on HiFi Forums treat each other like adults. LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR FOR FRAK SAKES lol


Then why can't we as adults accept the science and agree that something isn't better but different based on subjective listening opinion ?


----------



## Simca

Because when everyone agrees that something sounds better then it's better not just different.

You're basically the equivalent of an audio Jahovas witness in this thread.

Whether you're right or not becomes less the point. You're simply annoying because you're cramming your opinion that there's one and only one truth and noone cares for that.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Because when everyone agrees that something sounds better then it's better not just different.
> 
> You're basically the equivalent of an audio Jahovas witness in this thread.
> 
> Whether you're right or not becomes less the point. You're simply annoying because you're cramming your opinion that there's one and only one truth and noone cares for that.


Then by your logic we should all be buying Monster DNA and Beats by Dre headphones because everyone thinks they're better but I hope we can all agree they're not (you only need look at their frequency response to see that)

Not to mention that without doing A/B testing on products there's alot of mind trickery going on that can convince someone their $3000 purchase is better than a $300 purchase as has been proven (only a google search is needed to find proof of this)

Why are objective opinions with backed up with evidence on the performance of a product brushed aside and ignored ?

As I've said show me the evidence something is better and I'll believe it, don't say "it's better because I think it is" because that is just opinion and not scientific in any way, shape or form


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minusorange*
> 
> Then by your logic we should all be buying Monster DNA and Beats by Dre headphones because everyone thinks they're better but I hope we can all agree they're not (you only need look at their frequency response to see that)
> 
> Not to mention that without doing A/B testing on products there's alot of mind trickery going on that can convince someone their $3000 purchase is better than a $300 purchase as has been proven (only a google search is needed to find proof of this)
> 
> Why are objective opinions with backed up with evidence on the performance of a product brushed aside and ignored ?
> 
> As I've said show me the evidence something is better and I'll believe it, don't say "it's better because I think it is" because that is just opinion and not scientific in any way, shape or form


1) Not everyone agrees that beats sound the best.

2) The people that think that don't have any experience with anything else.

Likewise, if you offer those people Beats and a better alternative...they'll choose the better alternative unless they're getting something from the Beats OTHER than sound such as whatever fashion statement owning beats gives.

And when you present someone with on board sound, a sound card and an external DAC, you'll see across the board that External DAC>Soundcard>Onboard.

Clearly they're not all doing the same thing and producing the same sound.

And hey, buddy, if you type that into google, guess what you'll find.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> And when you present someone with on board sound, a sound card and an external DAC, you'll see across the board that External DAC>Soundcard>Onboard.
> 
> Clearly they're not all doing the same thing and producing the same sound.
> 
> And hey, buddy, if you type that into google, guess what you'll find.


Really ?

Just with minimal searching using the term "blind test DAC vs Soundcard" I found numerous threads full of these very arguments but few with actual tests and results

There was one with a very small sample size but the majority (80%) swayed towards hearing no difference

In fact most of threads I've found the majority pretty much agree there is no difference

Also you do realise the whole point in a DAC is to sound as transparent as possible ? If it's adding extra harmonic distortion or noise then it's not doing the job correctly, also when you throw in an Amp into the signal chain that is going effect the audio signal so comparing a soundcard to a DAC + Amp is not a fair test comparison unless you run the Amp through the soundcard also

But anyway Princess I'm done trying to discuss this rationally with you, it's clear you don't want to believe the science behind or even understand it so there really is no point, keep offering bad advice to people making them waste their money and I will offer my advice to them to save them from wasting money and lining the pockets of charlatans in the music industry conning the less informed.

If you want to provide some counter evidence to support your claims of a DAC test with higher than 50% (the luck factor) being able to tell a difference though then by all means, as I'm actually yet to see anything remotely scientific or audio theory based from you in your ramblings apart from an elitest and incredibly ignorant attitude


----------



## Simca

Well, you continue enjoying your on board sound. <3

Continue EQ'ing your 15 dollar skullcandies into audio perfection. <3.

Because..you know...anything else is just "different" not better.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Well, you continue enjoying your on board sound. <3
> 
> Continue EQ'ing your 15 dollar skullcandies into audio perfection. <3.
> 
> Because..you know...anything else is just "different" not better.








































Im sorry but god that is funny


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Well, you continue enjoying your on board sound. <3
> 
> Continue EQ'ing your 15 dollar skullcandies into audio perfection. <3.
> 
> Because..you know...anything else is just "different" not better.


As I said nothing but an elitest and ignorant attitude, thanks for proving that and disproving nothing I said with any facts

Enjoy living in your fantasy land of musicians playing unicorn horns producing aural gold, pixie dust sprinkled DAC's and your magic pebbles enhancing fidelity


----------



## djinferno806

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> people on this forum have no respect for each other. it's non stop arguing. I used to think HiFi on a computer tech forum could work but i'm not so sure anymore.


This x 1000.

That's the reason why I don't even bother with PC audio in this site.

I rather go to Head Fi's PC gaming audio or gaming headphone threads for that. People on there break their fingers to help each other out with getting their setups up and running. And there is no snobbery or bickering, just honest opinions from audiophiles who enjoy gaming. A title that seems to get generalized as being a bunch of audio fools(pun intended).

As much as I think its silly to spend thousands of dollars on audio sources, I respect those who do since its a hobby for them. Just like those who spend hundreds of thousands on cars or thousands on a PC and custom loops. Yet nobody judges them. Ridiculous really.

I'm surprised I haven't seen *Cuad* in this thread yet preaching that you are all idiots for liking anything but onboard.

Even the OP's response to salx's question or opinion on the thread updates and list seemed full of attitude. "Then he's just wrong, that's good.". Really? He wasn't being rude or anything, that's just his dialect. There are some devices or products you are missing I'm sure like the zxr or any audio gd entry level product that peforms better than $600 external units almost always. Not a huge thing, I'm sure he's just trying to bring that to your attention. He's actually one of the most helpful members in a lot of the audio threads, nice guy.

Anyway just my two cents. I apologize for going off topic, just some things I noticed in this thread that kinda bugged me. Not trying to annoy anyone or single anyone out but its good to discuss things in order to realize where our faults lie.

*@minusorange*

You should just stop, you are making a fool of yourself for no reason. Is your argument benefiting anyone really? Believe what you like and enjoy your sound and let the rest of us enjoy ours. I'm sure you have hobbies too.


----------



## Minusorange

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djinferno806*
> 
> *@minusorange*
> 
> You should just stop, you are making a fool of yourself for no reason. Is your argument benefiting anyone really? Believe what you like and enjoy your sound and let the rest of us enjoy ours. I'm sure you have hobbies too.


I do have hobbies, one of them is audio, currently in the process of testing dispersion for omnidirectional electrostatic speakers for a research paper and if my argument saves someone spending a few hundred more on a product that offers little to no noticeable difference then yes it has benefited someone. Since when is standing your ground on your beliefs and backing it up with science making a fool of oneself ?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djinferno806*
> 
> This x 1000.
> 
> That's the reason why I don't even bother with PC audio in this site.
> 
> I rather go to Head Fi's PC gaming audio or gaming headphone threads for that. People on there break their fingers to help each other out with getting their setups up and running. And there is no snobbery or bickering, just honest opinions from audiophiles who enjoy gaming. A title that seems to get generalized as being a bunch of audio fools(pun intended).
> 
> As much as I think its silly to spend thousands of dollars on audio sources, I respect those who do since its a hobby for them. Just like those who spend hundreds of thousands on cars or thousands on a PC and custom loops. Yet nobody judges them. Ridiculous really.
> 
> I'm surprised I haven't seen *Cuad* in this thread yet preaching that you are all idiots for liking anything but onboard.
> 
> Even the OP's response to salx's question or opinion on the thread updates and list seemed full of attitude. "Then he's just wrong, that's good.". Really? He wasn't being rude or anything, that's just his dialect. There are some devices or products you are missing I'm sure like the zxr or any audio gd entry level product that peforms better than $600 external units almost always. Not a huge thing, I'm sure he's just trying to bring that to your attention. He's actually one of the most helpful members in a lot of the audio threads, nice guy.
> 
> Anyway just my two cents. I apologize for going off topic, just some things I noticed in this thread that kinda bugged me. Not trying to annoy anyone or single anyone out but its good to discuss things in order to realize where our faults lie.
> 
> *@minusorange*
> 
> You should just stop, you are making a fool of yourself for no reason. Is your argument benefiting anyone really? Believe what you like and enjoy your sound and let the rest of us enjoy ours. I'm sure you have hobbies too.


You must not hang around head-fi often. There are tons of douchenozzles there telling you not to post because the topics been covered or because someone is new or gives an opinion contrary to what's flavor of the month. Worse really is you'll have a bunch of random guys giving you opinions on just stuff they own even if it's not a good matchup for what you're looking for. Sure there are occasionally good threads that are informative on Head-fi, but don't think that head-fi is full of rainbows and unicorns 'cuz it's not.

You have to keep in mind that this is not a dictionary of all possible audio related gear. It isn't meant to be updated every time a manufacturer puts out a new piece of equipment. Furthermore, the ZxR is not recommended. You're spending $250 on a soundcard that's inferior to the Titanium HD which is like $80 if you can find it at this point. Furthermore, Audio-GD products aren't recommended either. People can feel free to comment on their opinions of Audio-GD, but so far, there's no love for Audio-GD here and with good reason. They measure poorly, don't amp well, and you're paying a ton into the product name or to get into the "audio-gd" club. I won't comment on their higher end stuff as I haven't tried it, but then I couldn't recommend it, could I?


----------



## phillyd

A big problem with blind test is STILL bias. Not bias from those who think there will be a change, but bias from those who think that there will not be a change. If you believe that two audio samples of different bit depths and sample rates or bit rates/formats will sound the same, then you are much more likely to miss any changes. Same goes switching different hardware in and out.


----------



## djinferno806

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You must not hang around head-fi often. There are tons of douchenozzles there telling you not to post because the topics been covered or because someone is new or gives an opinion contrary to what's flavor of the month. Worse really is you'll have a bunch of random guys giving you opinions on just stuff they own even if it's not a good matchup for what you're looking for. Sure there are occasionally good threads that are informative on Head-fi, but don't think that head-fi is full of rainbows and unicorns 'cuz it's not.
> 
> You have to keep in mind that this is not a dictionary of all possible audio related gear. It isn't meant to be updated every time a manufacturer puts out a new piece of equipment. Furthermore, the ZxR is not recommended. You're spending $250 on a soundcard that's inferior to the Titanium HD which is like $80 if you can find it at this point. Furthermore, Audio-GD products aren't recommended either. People can feel free to comment on their opinions of Audio-GD, but so far, there's no love for Audio-GD here and with good reason. They measure poorly, don't amp well, and you're paying a ton into the product name or to get into the "audio-gd" club. I won't comment on their higher end stuff as I haven't tried it, but then I couldn't recommend it, could I?


I'm not quite sure we are talking about the same Audio GD here. Nowhere have I read complaints with their products like you mention. Having used their 15.32 for a bit now, amping poorly is not true. At least not of this line. If there are then by all means post it please because its news to me. And I am not sure what "Audio GD club" you are referring to? This isn't BOSE where the name means something so you can gloat to your buddies. People usually buy their products due to their performance and features for the price. Its why I bought mine. Anyway it seems we are getting derailed, I only brought it up as an example, there are other products I could have said but I figured you would have appreciated the value that comes with their $200-300 units.

In terms of this not being a dictionary of audio gear, that's fair. However I don't think anyone expects you to do this. Just saying there are a few others that perhaps could be recommended. The ZXR being inferior to the TiHD? In price definitely as the daughterboard and ACM are a waste and make the price higher for no reason, hence why I sold mine. But the specs, actually superior. The software, well that's subjective depending on whether you play older game or whether you like CMSS3D Headphone more than SBX Surround. Regardless I do understand why you wouldn't recommend it price wise but for those who don't care about money, why not right? As I have stopped recommending it as well due to its value.

Regarding the Head Fi comment, that's why I specifically stated those 2 threads, not the site as a whole. I think we agree on how some members can be on certain audio analytical and measurements threads and I think we are on the same page about certain banned members and talking about them.

Anyway don't take my comments as aggression or an attempt to stir anything up, just an opinion. The only reason I brought up the comment you made was the way you made it instead of explaining it like you did here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> A big problem with blind test is STILL bias. Not bias from those who think there will be a change, but bias from those who think that there will not be a change. If you believe that two audio samples of different bit depths and sample rates or bit rates/formats will sound the same, then you are much more likely to miss any changes. Same goes switching different hardware in and out.


The human brain is a wonderful thing isn't it? You'd be amazed at what you can think you see/hear, not see/not hear based on what your auditory and visuals cortices process. UFO's and ghost whispering anyone? lol.


----------



## Simca

No, we're talking about the same Audio-GD. The one and only Audio-GD. While you may not think it, you are actually paying for Audio-GD name or perhaps their "R&D" department. What you're paying for is largely NOT what the components are comprised of. If you look at what's inside a lot of Audio-GD units, you get a bunch of mediocre components that don't measure well and then a high price tag. A lot of audio companies are guilty of this. Ever since companies like Schiit and a lot of DIY products have been released that give you good measurements and excellent value, it's difficult to justify a purchase like audio-gd. Am I saying your Audio-GD purchase sounds bad? Not necessarily, but when you compare it to say a Schiit stack, you not only overpaid, but you're not even getting the same performance unless you appreciate the Audio-GD sound over the Schiit sound which is possible I suppose. I'm not here to prove why such and such company is not a good value or buy. I'm merely recommending products with great value and that are worth mentioning. In my opinion and the audio editors opinion, audio-gd is not worth recommending here.

Don't go the specs route with the ZxR vs TiHD. Specs can say whatever they please, but to all owners of both..everyone preferred the TiHD. I have yet to read someone's opinion of someoen that went from the TiHD and strongly preferred the ZxR over it. It's a huge reason why I don't enter my opinion in the ZxR thread. I'm happy they're not using on board and that's good enough for me. Even if they're using a product that's basically a waste of their money in my opinion, I'm not going to spoil their party over there like this science guy is here. Reason why it's not on the list for people that don't care about money is because at $250 or even $200 you can have a Schiit stack that beats it. Why recommend an inferior product at that price point?

I'm with you. I know I can say things brutally. It's a flaw and I wish I didn't come across so harshly at times, but that's what you get with me. If you don't completely flip out everytime I say something and bother to get more info, I'm more than happy to provide a fully fleshed out opinion on the matter. Most of the time I don't mean things as harshly as most read into it. I'm either being silly, sarcastic or funny. A few times I'm serious and mean exactly what I say, but questioning it usually helps to figure out what kind of mood I'm in. If you come back harshly I'll likely continue to fire back harshly, but if you ask neutrally or better you'll likewise receive a neutral or positive response. I'm not here to break anyone's balls. If you're cool with me, I'm cool with you even if we don't agree.

And while I come across hostile at times, I also receive a lot of positive feedback for arguing my points. If you look at my rep 80% of it after 900 has been for arguing against a lot of silly claims or taking a stance against a majoritive opinion.


----------



## djinferno806

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No, we're talking about the same Audio-GD. The one and only Audio-GD. While you may not think it, you are actually paying for Audio-GD name or perhaps their "R&D" department. What you're paying for is largely NOT what the components are comprised of. If you look at what's inside a lot of Audio-GD units, you get a bunch of mediocre components that don't measure well and then a high price tag. A lot of audio companies are guilty of this. Ever since companies like Schiit and a lot of DIY products have been released that give you good measurements and excellent value, it's difficult to justify a purchase like audio-gd. Am I saying your Audio-GD purchase sounds bad? Not necessarily, but when you compare it to say a Schiit stack, you not only overpaid, but you're not even getting the same performance unless you appreciate the Audio-GD sound over the Schiit sound which is possible I suppose. I'm not here to prove why such and such company is not a good value or buy. I'm merely recommending products with great value and that are worth mentioning. In my opinion and the audio editors opinion, audio-gd is not worth recommending here.
> 
> *The 15.32 at $235 with a technically superior(albeit sound signature being warmer is subjective ofcourse) dual wolfson setup and a really beefy and great sounding amp section is a REALLY good price. The fact that in incorporates both types of digital inputs and still has line outs is what really has it shine above a Modi/Magni stack at almost the same price. I dont think anyone would argue that the wolfson DAC's are inferior to the AKG's inside the shchiit. But I am in no way saying that the schiits are not good, because they are, having listened to that stack myself. Just not as good. So i guess my basis for my argument is based on the 15.XX lineup and even the 11.XX lineup with the sabre DAC. I dont know about R&D or paying for the name but to implement the USB VIA chip(best USB chip available) and the optical and coax inputs and line outs would have cost Schiit a alot more. Which is why I stand by the value of the Audio GD Entry lineup. Not sure how their expensive units are or measure up. Anwyway I wont bring this up again in favour of going back to topic lol but if you'd like we can continue this elsewhere as mature adults with opinions since we both seem to have strong valid points.*
> 
> Don't go the specs route with the ZxR vs TiHD. Specs can say whatever they please, but to all owners of both..everyone preferred the TiHD. I have yet to read someone's opinion of someoen that went from the TiHD and strongly preferred the ZxR over it. It's a huge reason why I don't enter my opinion in the ZxR thread. I'm happy they're not using on board and that's good enough for me. Even if they're using a product that's basically a waste of their money in my opinion, I'm not going to spoil their party over there like this science guy is here. Reason why it's not on the list for people that don't care about money is because at $250 or even $200 you can have a Schiit stack that beats it. Why recommend an inferior product at that price point?
> 
> *Like I said, I think the price is the reason why nobody recomends it over the TiHD, and I cant say I blame them. However I am sure a lot of those same people prefer the older DS3D and Hardware OpenAL support. I think if the ZXR were to be $150-160, there would be a lot more adopters. Also lets not forget the dumbing down of the ZXR control panel and removing headphone HRTF from the line outs... sigh...*
> 
> I'm with you. I know I can say things brutally. It's a flaw and I wish I didn't come across so harshly at times, but that's what you get with me. If you don't completely flip out everytime I say something and bother to get more info, I'm more than happy to provide a fully fleshed out opinion on the matter. Most of the time I don't mean things as harshly as most read into it. I'm either being silly, sarcastic or funny. A few times I'm serious and mean exactly what I say, but questioning it usually helps to figure out what kind of mood I'm in. If you come back harshly I'll likely continue to fire back harshly, but if you ask neutrally or better you'll likewise receive a neutral or positive response. I'm not here to break anyone's balls. If you're cool with me, I'm cool with you even if we don't agree.
> 
> And while I come across hostile at times, I also receive a lot of positive feedback for arguing my points. If you look at my rep 80% of it after 900 has been for arguing against a lot of silly claims or taking a stance against a majoritive opinion.
> 
> *10-4! I hear ya. I know its good to have thick skin and all especially on here. Like I said dont take my comment as preaching or giving you crap, just something I noticed that kind of bothered me. But hearing how you are does make sense and hopefully others who read it will understand too now.
> 
> *


----------



## Simca

It's fantastic that you've listened to both the schiit stack and the Audio-GD. I haven't listened to their recent lineup, only their older line up with the compass which was pretty good and a few NFB models. Haven't read into Audio-GD at all recently so 15.xx and 11.xx kinda' sound alien to me. NwAvGuy did some measurements on some Audio-GD unit and it measured so badly I think even a FiiO product was more transparent and neutral.

The one thing I want to make note of, and not just for you, but anyone reading is that while it's great to have a nice DAC on board, it's the implementation of the DAC and the circuitry that's going to make the DAC unit as a whole sound great. If you throw in an awesome Sabre DAC and then have a crappy circuit/layout then it's going to suck.


----------



## djinferno806

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> it's the implementation of the DAC and the circuitry that's going to make the DAC unit as a whole sound great.


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Philly27

In the OP you say you do not recommend headset. just to clarify what is the optimal set up then? thanks


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Philly27*
> 
> In the OP you say you do not recommend headset. just to clarify what is the optimal set up then? thanks


Headphones on their own with a separate microphone.


----------



## EternalRest

Sennheiser PC 360 worth the money?


----------



## djinferno806

The only headsets that are somewhat worth buying IMHO are the beyerdynamic mmx300(uses dt770 drivers) and the senheiser pc350/360(uses HD 558/598 drivers). They will always be costly though unfortunately.

With that said having used the pc350/360 back in the day, they are not worth the high price tag. You'd get better value from a set of headphones in the $150-200 range and adding a clip on mic or desktop mic.

The pc350/360 also were a little light on the bass if you're the kind of person who likes a "fun" and bassy audio experience when gaming.

However if you are set on a headset from either of these companies and money isnt an issue, the mmx300 would be superior. At least IMO .


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

The Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC USB Gen 2 & Schiit Audio Asgard 2 Headphone Amplifier is it enough or to much for the Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm? Considering the Asgard 2 as it seems the easiest/cheapest setup for my speakers as well. without using splitters or something

Or could I save $433 and go with the Schiit Audio Modi DAC?

Thanks







I know I must be getting annoying by now


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EternalRest*
> 
> Sennheiser PC 360 worth the money?


Headsets are NEVER worth it IMO


----------



## Fortunex

HiFiMan HE400s on sale on Massdrop. Current price is $369, goes down to $329 if enough people order.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hifiman-he400


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> HiFiMan HE400s on sale on Massdrop. Current price is $369, goes down to $329 if enough people order.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hifiman-he400


Is Asgard good enough for these?


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Is Asgard good enough for these?


I'm powering mine with a Xonar DG. Yeah, the Asgard should be just fine









They're low impedance and a fairly high sensitivity. One of the easier to power orthos.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Is Asgard good enough for these?


Yes. HE400, like the LCD-2's, scale very well with amplifiers.


----------



## tompsonn

I must listen to some


----------



## Simca

You can listen to dt880 On a phone doesn't mean its being amped cuz I can listen to it on a phone


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> You can listen to dt880 On a phone doesn't mean its being amped cuz I can listen to it on a phone


well technically it is being amped, and some phone's amps are better than others.

But none are designed with headphones with like 250ohms in mind.


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> HiFiMan HE400s on sale on Massdrop. Current price is $369, goes down to $329 if enough people order.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hifiman-he400


I hate you for this.

I really, really hate you right now.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> well technically it is being amped, and some phone's amps are better than others.
> 
> But none are designed with headphones with like 250ohms in mind.


Mine was 600, could still hear it. Reading what people are saying, this is good enough to where I don't need an amp, cuz I can hear it.


----------



## phillyd

I don't like running my 80 ohms without amplification. Volume isn't bad but they sound terrible.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> well technically it is being amped, and some phone's amps are better than others.
> 
> But none are designed with headphones with like 250ohms in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine was 600, could still hear it. Reading what people are saying, this is good enough to where I don't need an amp, cuz I can hear it.
Click to expand...

olol

Even my 50ohm HD555s saw improvement from being amplified by a low-end amp


----------



## EternalRest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djinferno806*
> 
> However if you are set on a headset from either of these companies and money isnt an issue, the mmx300 would be superior. At least IMO .


..Yeah, I wouldn't want to spent that much money. Its either Audio Technica 700X or the pc 360. It will be matched with sound blaster Z


----------



## bumblebee1980

the Schiit Asgard 2 is enough to drive the HiFiMAN HE-400. the Schiit Lyr would be better because it has nearly double the peak to peak voltage.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Schiit Asgard 2 is enough to drive the HiFiMAN HE-400. the Schiit Lyr would be better because it has nearly double the peak to peak voltage.


Amplifier qualities and costs aside-this is more about the reasoning than the conclusion itself-would anybody actually make use of the extra headroom on the HE-400s? I mean, does anybody really use over 1W (Asgard 2) on those? I find that a bit difficult to believe.

It's not like the ability to output more voltage says much about the quality or whatever else, and it has no bearing on how it operates at your actual listening level unless you're using that much power.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Amplifier qualities and costs aside-this is more about the reasoning than the conclusion itself-would anybody actually make use of the extra headroom on the HE-400s? I mean, does anybody really use over 1W (Asgard 2) on those? I find that a bit difficult to believe.
> 
> It's not like the ability to output more voltage says much about the quality or whatever else, and it has no bearing on how it operates at your actual listening level unless you're using that much power.


don't be crazy nobody needs 6 watts but I go past 12:00 position with a couple of my amplifiers. the Schiit Lyr has more than enough swing for dynamics. I happen to think it's a better amplifier than the Asgard.


----------



## Philly27

Are the Sennheiser HD 360 Professional Studio any good? on woot for $50 bucks

http://tech.woot.com/offers/sennheiser-pro-studio-over-the-ear-headphones?utm_source=Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=7f5aecaf97-Daily+Digest+-+20140123+-+Woot&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-7f5aecaf97-292459753


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Just got my Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm, damn you guys are right the STX alone cant run these even with the +18 db, they sound flat compared to my AD700s, I did only just take them out of the box tho so Im guessing they need some time to burn in?

Edit, The Schiit Audio Asgard 2 should be more then enough to power these headphones shouldnt it?

Thanks


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Just got my Beyerdynamic DT880 250-ohm, damn you guys are right the STX alone cant run these even with the +18 db, they sound flat compared to my AD700s, I did only just take them out of the box tho so Im guessing they need some time to burn in?
> 
> Edit, The Schiit Audio Asgard 2 should be more then enough to power these headphones shouldnt it?
> 
> Thanks


The Asgard 2 would be great for them


----------



## Diablosbud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Amplifier qualities and costs aside-this is more about the reasoning than the conclusion itself-would anybody actually make use of the extra headroom on the HE-400s? I mean, does anybody really use over 1W (Asgard 2) on those? I find that a bit difficult to believe.
> 
> It's not like the ability to output more voltage says much about the quality or whatever else, and it has no bearing on how it operates at your actual listening level unless you're using that much power.


Honestly, all of this "you need a powerful amp" stuff with planars came from all of the older ones... when they first started coming back and were still very low sensitivity. The knob on my O2 starts at 6:00 and I only have to turn it to 8:00 to listen to my HE-400's quite loudly. The amps total output is 613 mW into 33 ohms and I have the amp on low gain. I'm so sick of hearing that you need a lot of power for the HE-400. It is 35 ohm and 92 dB/mW sensitivity, it's not much harder to power than a pair of Grado's







(98 dB/mW at 32 ohm). People say you need a good amp for them because they are high-end headphones that can retrieve a lot of detail so you need an amp with the reproduction quality to keep up, not necessarily that you need the amount of power that a high-end amp can deliver.

I'm sorry for ranting there, I'm just getting sick of certain audio myths that people blindly follow even when shown evidence against it. I better get used to it though, this hobby is so subjective that people out right ignore science. Speakers isn't half as bad as headphones, in fact the DIY speaker community is almost completely objective in their approach to audio. Personally, I'm in-between. I try to follow science as much as I can, but this audio hobby is subjective so my choice of components is ultimately going to boil down to how the equipment sounds.

Peak to peak voltage may make a difference though, as BumbleBee said. I don't know much about audio science, but I try my best to use what I do know.


----------



## Simca

Certain engineers from audio companies believe "Extra power is not to play loud all the time but to preserve the power for high dynamics in music."

Likewise, just because music can get loud doesn't mean you're amping a headphone appropriately. Amps are required often not for volume purposes but because they won't perform the way they should without one.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

I've been under the impression that a good amp keeps the SQ the same through all levels of volume?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diablosbud*
> 
> Peak to peak voltage may make a difference though, as BumbleBee said. I don't know much about audio science, but I try my best to use what I do know.


Power and voltage are more or less interchangeable in this context when you're talking about a particular load because any voltage level tells you how much power is delivered, and any power level tells you how much voltage was required. So if you say people are overemphasizing or exaggerating power requirements, you're saying the same thing about output voltage.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Certain engineers from audio companies believe "Extra power is not to play loud all the time but to preserve the power for high dynamics in music."
> 
> Likewise, just because music can get loud doesn't mean you're amping a headphone appropriately. Amps are required often not for volume purposes but because they won't perform the way they should without one.


For the first statement, they're kind of stating the obvious. You want to be able to handle peaks well and not clip those, not just do fine on average volume. In practice many speaker setups may clip the amps at high enough volumes on peaks, but this seems a lot rarer on headphone setups because the orders of magnitude difference in power required. The deal is when you've already got plenty of margin for peaks, having even more doesn't improve anything.

And the second part is why we should talk about how the amp performs sounds (also perhaps more relevantly the price, features, etc.) and usually not its max power / current / voltage because people aren't using the max unless you're maybe looking at a cheap portable amp or driving HE-6 or whatever. edit: I say "perform" (objectively and subjectively) and "sound" interchangeably but many others don't, so edited for clarity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> I've been under the impression that a good amp keeps the SQ the same through all levels of volume?


Depends what you want out of the amp.

Just as a point to consider, here is THD (though to be honest, that looks more like THD+N than THD) vs. output voltage with 37.5 ohms load for Woo Audio WA6-SE (MSRP $1190).

_from here, also see other results_

You can tell from just the above that it's a tube amp because of the lack of hard clipping. If you were to suppose that that level of distortion is audible (however, that's probably not true except maybe in the very right side), then the sound signature would be changing with volume. There are other things you can look at and listen for, but most amps probably don't really sound noticeably different through the levels of volume unless (1) you're running output tubes ragged on tube amps with low-impedance loads and high volumes the designers never intended you to run, (2) you get channel imbalance at the low end due to volume potentiometer tracking being imperfect, or (3) noise level not scaling with output volume and noise level being audible from a high enough level coupled with sensitive enough headphones (read: mostly IEMs). It's the same circuit regardless of volume and performance characteristics generally shouldn't be that different aside from the above.

On a side note, this is another example of manufacturer listed specs being useless. e.g. they say "THD: <= 0.3%" but don't list testing conditions. Clearly the figure is not at 8 or 37.5 ohms or similar (they claim handling 8-600 ohms) and not at 1 W (they claim handling 1 W). See above graph where clearly 0.3% is exceeded-not that that's the end of the world or anything or even undesirable, depending on perspective, but at least let's be factual when possible?


----------



## Diablosbud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Certain engineers from audio companies believe "Extra power is not to play loud all the time but to preserve the power for high dynamics in music."
> 
> Likewise, just because music can get loud doesn't mean you're amping a headphone appropriately. Amps are required often not for volume purposes but because they won't perform the way they should without one.


That's true. Sorry if I came off as a bit of a dick. I think current would be most beneficial for a planar rather than peak to peak voltage though. Even then, it's only 92 dB/mW... nothing to really be afraid of underpowering given a decent amplifier. It certainly doesn't need 1W as long as the amplifier has decent current output (which it should, given it isn't extremely low sensitivity). If we were talking about the LCD series or HE-6, then I would give a bit more credibility to the people saying it requires an amplifier with a decent amount of power.

I actually heard the HD 650 powered properly for the first time today. Yes, Simca is definitely right. Just because you can hear a headphone with the power it is recieving doesn't mean that it is powered well. A lot of the frequency response can be messed up by under-powering, particularly dynamics. I hated the HD 650's out of an iPod, but loved them out of the Teac amplifier that I used at the audio store.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Can anyone share ideas on a headphone amp for a pair of DT990 pro 250 ohms, up to £200.

I think I'd like a little warmth to the sound, tube amps interest me but I have no idea on tubes and what not (sounds like a potential wallet drainer!)

The only comparison I have is I tried out an audiolab Q-DAC which I liked very much but maybe sounded a little empty? not sure how I could describe it.
I was thinking of the Schiit Vali but maybe there's something better I can get with my budget?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Can anyone share ideas on a headphone amp for a pair of DT990 pro 250 ohms, up to £200.
> 
> I think I'd like a little warmth to the sound, tube amps interest me but I have no idea on tubes and what not (sounds like a potential wallet drainer!)
> 
> The only comparison I have is I tried out an audiolab Q-DAC which I liked very much but maybe sounded a little empty? not sure how I could describe it.
> I was thinking of the Schiit Vali but maybe there's something better I can get with my budget?


Aune T1 is on massdrop for only $129 with free shipping to the US! It should give the warmer sound you're looking for plus it only uses 1 tube so finding matching pairs which is more expensive is out the window.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Aune T1 is on massdrop for only $129 with free shipping to the US! It should give the warmer sound you're looking for plus it only uses 1 tube so finding matching pairs which is more expensive is out the window.


I was literally editing my post to mention the Aune T1 lol
I'm in the UK so $15 shipping - works out about £90 total







hopefully import charges wouldn't be absurd...

edit: it would only be the %20 VAT us brits have to pay on everything we buy - So if I got the T1 I'd only be looking at paying about £105

edit2: okay just found this on Head-Fi
Quote:


> Q: Does the Aune T1 DAC utilize the tube, does the T1 headphone amp section use the tube, or do they both use the tube?
> A: The Aune T1 is a USB tube DAC with a solid state headphone amp. What this means is that if you want the benefits of the tube, you must use the USB Input of the T1. The amp section of the T1 does not use the tube by itself. Technically, you could bypass the DAC of the T1 and just use the amp but this type of use is not really what the T1 is for. One thing you can do is use the T1 USB input then hook up a different amp to the RCA out of the T1. This will give you the benefits of the tube and allow you to try a different/more powerful amp (though I think the amp in the T1 is quite good). I personally have a speaker amp hooked up this way so I can use my headphones and some bookshelf speakers at the same time from one source.


I already have a receiver which I'm going to be running the headphone amp from, and I don't know if I want to use the T1 as a DAC for my receiver. hhmmmmm


----------



## Gaupz

I should be able to run HD800's off of my SoundBlaster ZxR correct?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

@Magical Eslimo - Maybe the Bravo V3 (basshead) or the Ocean (mid- centric). It's going to give you that old tube sound and warmth you're looking for.

Here's a review you might want to look at --> LINK

Bravo Ocean - $129.99

Bravo V3 - $89.99

I'd personally go for the Ocean since it doesn't have the v shape of the V3 but still has weight at the bottom end.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Meanwhile...

I'm a little bored at work so...


----------



## IBooNI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> I should be able to run HD800's off of my SoundBlaster ZxR correct?


Be able to run them, as in hear sound.....Yes

Your soundcard will be seriously holding back your cans. So yes you can run them, but you need to look in getting an amp for those.


----------



## Simca

HD800 is known for being brutal on sound if it isn't recorded well. Hope you know this before purchasing an HD800. On a soundcard that's an even worse recipe.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> I should be able to run HD800's off of my SoundBlaster ZxR correct?


Short answer is yes. Long answer is, you will hate yourself for it.


----------



## IBooNI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Short answer is yes. Long answer is, you will hate yourself for it.


Even worse, I will hate him for it.


----------



## Gaupz

What do you guys recommend I use with the HD800s? (nothing too crazy >.> I got the HD800's for a good price.)


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> What do you guys recommend I use with the HD800s? (nothing too crazy >.> I got the HD800's for a good price.)


Budget?


----------



## mikeaj

I'd try the HD 800 with the ZxR just for kicks. You know, as a reference point before getting something else.

It doesn't hurt to ignore price and conventional wisdom sometimes. But yeah, budget?


----------



## Gaupz

Probably a couple hundred. I paid $600 for the hd800s so I'm not loaded.


----------



## Simca

That's an amazing price. Even I'd buy them for $600. If you decide you don't like them let me know, I'm down to buy.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> Probably a couple hundred. I paid $600 for the hd800s so I'm not loaded.


Are you against buying used amps?


----------



## IBooNI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> Probably a couple hundred. I paid $600 for the hd800s so I'm not loaded.


$600, I hate you







. That is a great price. Were they new/used and from where?


----------



## th3l4st0ne

What kind of dac/amp combo would you suggest for driving a pair of modded A900? I currently have a DIY DAC that look like it got a really cheap CMOY-style amp in it and I look forward something more dynamic. I mainly listen to metal and rock and a lot for gaming. Budget's around 100$ and must be an external dac.


----------



## Gaupz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IBooNI*
> 
> $600, I hate you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That is a great price. Were they new/used and from where?


I work at an electronics store that runs on commission, I had a rebate+can buy them for what the store pays so in total I paid $600 for a brand new pair.


----------



## Tagkaman

Anyone tried the sock mod? I just performed it on my Samson SR850s and it really makes a difference in terms of comfort. No perceptible sound difference too.


----------



## gauchotodd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That said it's updated as frequently as it need be and doesn't need to be updated anymore than it currently is. I could do a format change, but that'd be a lot of work I'm not up to atm.


I'd also be interested in an update; the Audioquest Dragonfly listed under the $250 price range is now $100 new, and its followup (1.2) is $150. It would be nice to see how these products compare to other products in those price ranges, and it would make sense to replace older products listed with newer or reduced price products, et cetera. Not necessarily asking for a whole rehash of the guide, just for standout cases like that.

On a side note, I pulled the trigger on the 1.2 and it should get here tomorrow. Super curious to hear how it compares to my Xonar D1.


----------



## Simca

It gets updated when it needs to get updated. Changing a price tag isn't really worth my time. Just because a new version of the same product is out doesn't mean I need to update the thread to reflect that. Often times the update isn't as good as the former version. So updating every time a product is replaced isn't always the best idea.


----------



## gauchotodd

Right, but when there's a big difference like that and the guide is left as is, it totally changes the notion of value for all the products above and below those price ranges. It makes it difficult to justify getting an $80 Xonar when you can get what appears to be an enormously better DAC for only $20 more. You see what I mean?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gauchotodd*
> 
> Right, but when there's a big difference like that and the guide is left as is, it totally changes the notion of value for all the products above and below those price ranges. It makes it difficult to justify getting an $80 Xonar when you can get what appears to be an enormously better DAC for only $20 more. You see what I mean?


absolutely and when we have these products shipped to us for us to review for you and let you know if it's better than its predecessor then we'll do that.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the HRT MusicStreamer needs to be removed. this is a good example of a D/A converter aging. HRT launched the line in 2009 when Burr-Brown and Wolfson chips were really popular. the Schiit Modi is a better sounding D/A converter.


----------



## bumblebee1980

something really exotic or well made like a flagship DAC or CD Player is going to age slower than a entry level product. the HRT MusicStreamer II was probably the only DAC that could do 88.2khz in 2009 at $199. now you can get a USB Class 2 D/A converter with a ESS chip, XMOS receiver and can upsample to 192Khz and pretty soon DSD support.


----------



## Simca

I will rip this entire thread apart if one more person comments on this thread, test me!


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I will rip this entire thread apart if one more person comments on this thread, test me!


Beep boop


----------



## Simca

Well, I kinda' meant about updating the thread.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Well, I kinda' meant about updating the thread.


Do you, uhh...

Think you could....

Umm....


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Do you, uhh...
> 
> Think you could....
> 
> Umm....


That's it, I'm deleting it all. You pushed me to the edge.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's it, I'm deleting it all. You pushed me to the edge.


D:


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> That's it, I'm deleting it all. You pushed me to the edge.


Our main defence line against mainstream has fallen!
Does this mean that Beats will now take over OCN?


----------



## Alex132

But Beats are the best headphones in the world


----------



## gauchotodd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I will rip this entire thread apart if one more person comments on this thread, test me!


Hahaha then I'll refrain from arguing my point further. You're too good at dodging the question anyway. Seriously, like Matrix good.


----------



## Simca

There, I've updated the entire thread. Basically did rip it apart for the most part. I'd say about 75% of it was re-written...so from the time you complained about it earlier today until 6:00PM today I was working on it. See if there's some stuff that hasn't been changed and that you think should be changed or some stuff i Left out that should return or if you think it's fine the way it is now, or if you don't like the logo's etc. (About 7 hours of work)


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Looks good. Some minor things I noticed: the psw 505 is really more of a $200 price rang,e you've gotta be stupid to spend more than that, and the p153's are probably closer to $100 for a pair. Also, would consider a section on center channels.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Looks good. Some minor things I noticed: the psw 505 is really more of a $200 price rang,e you've gotta be stupid to spend more than that, and the p153's are probably closer to $100 for a pair. Also, would consider a section on center channels.


will change the pricing. I won't add a center section though. There seriosuly aren't enough people interested in them for it to be worthwhile.


----------



## phillyd

I'm going to second your recommendation for HE-300's for electronic music. A great pairing!

The Schiit Vali is a great alternate for the Magni if you want some warmth and don't mind the microphonics. I can give more detail on either pairing if you'd like.

Well done Simca, I am very much in agreement with the whole of the thread. Nice layout too.

The rock section for headphones could use some more flushing out, but I'm sure you know the locations that still require work. +rep!


----------



## bumblebee1980

the Dacmagic 100 shouldn't be on the list.

the old Dacmagic was great



the Dacmagic Plus and Dacmagic 100 not so good.

Aune T1 is $180. Zalman clip on microphone is awful. Adam/Emotiva active monitors should be on the list instead of M-Audio.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Tube D/A converters

Aune T1 $180 (has headphone amplifier)
Maverick Audio D1 $199
Maverick Audio D2 $249
Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11 $389
MHDT Steeplechase $399
Musical Paradise MP-D1 $480
Scott Nixon TD2.2 $485
Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III $499 (has headphone amplifier)
Music Hall DAC25.3 $595 (has headphone amplifier)

Non-Oversampling or NOS for short D/A converters

Muse Mini HiFi $59
Lite DAC-AH $125
ProJect DAC Box S FL $299
Teradak Chameleon $539 (other models available)
Metrum Mini Quad $469
MHDT Havana $854

edit: the Muse is probably worth taking a chance on. Havana and Steeplechase are good D/A converters but probably not worth recommending to the average consumer.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Dacmagic 100 shouldn't be on the list.
> 
> the old Dacmagic was great
> 
> 
> 
> the Dacmagic Plus and Dacmagic 100 not so good.
> 
> Aune T1 is $180. Zalman clip on microphone is awful. Adam/Emotiva active monitors should be on the list instead of M-Audio.


Yeah, I was looking for that version, had the picture and all, but when I tried to find it on their website it was gone. Figured that was an updated version.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I'm going to second your recommendation for HE-300's for electronic music. A great pairing!
> 
> The Schiit Vali is a great alternate for the Magni if you want some warmth and don't mind the microphonics. I can give more detail on either pairing if you'd like.
> 
> Well done Simca, I am very much in agreement with the whole of the thread. Nice layout too.
> 
> The rock section for headphones could use some more flushing out, but I'm sure you know the locations that still require work. +rep!
> 
> Wasn't sure if I should go into further detail on it or not so I kept it short as I haven't recommended "rock headphones" in a long time.


----------



## PCModderMike

Good job with the revamp Simca. So if I were to ditch my soundcard entirely, what would go well with my klipsch promedia 2.1?


----------



## Simca

Well, to be honest your Klipsch set would likely be just as fine on the sound card, but if you were to upgrade, the Modi really is all you'd need.


----------



## phillyd

Yeah I'm sure you could research and collect enough info and opinions to make a full section but that seems to be a big task, maybe for another time.

After more listening with rock and metal, I have to recommend the HE-300 in that category as well. They are seeming to be a great all around can. However, it seems the HD600, in the same price bracket, is probably the better choice.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Yeah I'm sure you could research and collect enough info and opinions to make a full section but that seems to be a big task, maybe for another time.
> 
> After more listening with rock and metal, I have to recommend the HE-300 in that category as well. They are seeming to be a great all around can. However, it seems the HD600, in the same price bracket, is probably the better choice.


The HE-300s are in the all around category. Not rock or electronica.


----------



## PCModderMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Well, to be honest your Klipsch set would likely be just as fine on the sound card, but if you were to upgrade, the Modi really is all you'd need.


Hmm OK. Well the speakers are active, but they connect via a 3.5mm headphone jack. So with that Modi, would it be OK to use a cable like this? Or does that degrade the quality in any way?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Yeah I'm sure you could research and collect enough info and opinions to make a full section but that seems to be a big task, maybe for another time.
> 
> After more listening with rock and metal, I have to recommend the HE-300 in that category as well. They are seeming to be a great all around can. However, it seems the HD600, in the same price bracket, is probably the better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> The HE-300s are in the all around category. Not rock or electronica.
Click to expand...

Fair enough!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCModderMike*
> 
> Hmm OK. Well the speakers are active, but they connect via a 3.5mm headphone jack. So with that Modi, would it be OK to use a cable like this? Or does that degrade the quality in any way?


That adapter will not at all degrade quality. I definitely think the Promedia's will benefit from a Modi, but that is the most I'd spend on sourcing them before getting better speakers.


----------



## PCModderMike

Thanks for the input phillyd. Yes about 100 bucks is all I'm looking to spend. If I were to wanna use that Modi with my PC360's though I would definitely need an amp right?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCModderMike*
> 
> Thanks for the input phillyd. Yes about 100 bucks is all I'm looking to spend. If I were to wanna use that Modi with my PC360's though I would definitely need an amp right?


Yeah you would want an amp for your PC360's


----------



## Simca

Not, not really. You can do just fine without an amp for PC360s.


----------



## phillyd

Really? I mean they are low-ohm but aren't they in the category of headphones that would sound noticeably better if amped?


----------



## gauchotodd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> There, I've updated the entire thread. (About 7 hours of work)


I agree, can't stress that third point enough. It looks incredible; fantastic work! Super, super helpful


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> There, I've updated the entire thread. Basically did rip it apart for the most part. I'd say about 75% of it was re-written...so from the time you complained about it earlier today until 6:00PM today I was working on it. See if there's some stuff that hasn't been changed and that you think should be changed or some stuff i Left out that should return or if you think it's fine the way it is now, or if you don't like the logo's etc. (About 7 hours of work)


Thanks heaps for doing this for us


----------



## gauchotodd

I would also recommend the Sennheiser Momentums under the $300 price point for being such a great versatile headphone. They sound great plugged into a decent DAC and are definitely the best mobile headphones I've come across, and people may be attracted to being able to use one pair for both. What do you think?

Hilarious note on the Yeti, by the way


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gauchotodd*
> 
> I would also recommend the Sennheiser Momentums under the $300 price point for being such a great versatile headphone. They sound great plugged into a decent DAC and are definitely the best mobile headphones I've come across, and people may be attracted to being able to use one pair for both. What do you think?


Why not have a category for recommended mobile headset or something? Just throwing it out there!Up to Simca of course!

We bow to your graciousness oh mighty Simca!


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hi! I need some advice on audio components. I have picked out some components and it would very helpful if I could get the answers to the following questions.

i) Do Creative and ASUS components work well together? (For example, if I paired an Aurvana Live with an Essence STX)
ii) If not, which would be a better setup - Aurvana Live + a different sound card, or a different headphone + Essence STX?
iii) Is it possible to keep onboard audio active while using a discrete sound card? (Creative T6200 5.1 with SupremeFX IV and headphones with discrete sound card)

For all intents and purposes, these are meant to be used for all sorts of entertainment purposes - especially games, movies and music.

Thanks in advance!









P.S. Where are the high-end sound card recommendations? I see only entry level audio interface recommendations on the OP.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Hi! I need some advice on audio components. I have picked out some components and it would very helpful if I could get the answers to the following questions.
> 
> i) Do Creative and ASUS components work well together? (For example, if I paired an Aurvana Live with an Essence STX)
> ii) If not, which would be a better setup - Aurvana Live + a different sound card, or a different headphone + Essence STX?
> iii) Is it possible to keep onboard audio active while using a discrete sound card? (Creative T6200 5.1 with SupremeFX IV and headphones with discrete sound card)
> 
> For all intents and purposes, these are meant to be used for all sorts of entertainment purposes - especially games, movies and music.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Where are the high-end sound card recommendations? I see only entry level audio interface recommendations on the OP.


yes and yes.

you can set it so music in JRiver or Foobar2000 is output to a USB DAC and normal Windows audio output to sound card or on-board.

sound cards are not so hot these days. speaking of D/A converters aging I don't think people realize that card was designed nearly 6 years ago. it's getting up there in age.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I have no idea what is available to you but if the headphones cost less than $100 the Asus Xonar DG will be fine.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> yes and yes.
> 
> you can set it so music in JRiver or Foobar2000 is output to a USB DAC and normal Windows audio output to sound card or on-board.
> 
> sound cards are not so hot these days. speaking of D/A converters aging I don't think people realize that card was designed nearly 6 years ago. it's getting up there in age.


Sorry I don't know much about audio components.

i) Is it safe to assume that in a similar price range, a DAC will provide better sound quality than a sound card?
ii) If so, which DAC would you recommend which is similar in price to ASUS Xonar Essence STX? (Go by Amazon UK prices for reference)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have no idea what is available to you but if the headphones cost less than $100 the Asus Xonar DG will be fine.


Does this mean that with a headphone that costs less than $100, I won't find any difference in sound quality between a DG and an STX or ZxR?

Thanks a lot for the prompt reply! I really appreciate the advice!


----------



## Cavi Mike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 
> *$130-$165 - Aune T1*
> This Tube DAC comes with a Solid State Amplifier which isn't the best, but gets the job done and allows you listen to your headphones without requiring an additional headphone amplifier. It's highly recommended you find this on sale on Massdrop for $130.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Aune T1


Well as long as the amplifier section is sonically transparent, it shouldn't matter. All that should matter is that the tube is doing the important work. After all, the true test of an amplifier is if you can hear it - or should I say _not_ hear it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Sorry I don't know much about audio components.
> 
> i) Is it safe to assume that in a similar price range, a DAC will provide better sound quality than a sound card?
> ii) If so, which DAC would you recommend which is similar in price to ASUS Xonar Essence STX? (Go by Amazon UK prices for reference)
> Does this mean that with a headphone that costs less than $100, I won't find any difference in sound quality between a DG and an STX or ZxR?
> 
> Thanks a lot for the prompt reply! I really appreciate the advice!


the Schiit Magni and Modi ($200) is the most popular right now. it's a cute little HiFi stack that sits on your desk.



try to look for it. I know Schiit has distributors in other countries.

more expensive headphones can easily outclass headphones under $100 in sound quality, build quality and comfort. forget about the Asus Xonar Essence STX.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Schiit Magni and Modi ($200) is the most popular right now. it's a cute little HiFi stack that sits on your desk.
> 
> 
> 
> try to look for it. I know Schiit has distributors in other countries.
> 
> more expensive headphones can easily outclass headphones under $100 in sound quality, build quality and comfort. forget about the Asus Xonar Essence STX.


So to use a DAC, I need to purchase a separate Headphone amplifier?

Will I be able to use these with my Creative speakers, or will I need to keep using the onboard audio for that?

I should note that I probably won't be spending much higher on a headphone than the price of an Aurvana Live. Will the Magni Modi combo be much better than sound cards with such a low end headphone?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> So to use a DAC, I need to purchase a separate Headphone amplifier?
> 
> Will I be able to use these with my Creative speakers, or will I need to keep using the onboard audio for that?
> 
> I should note that I probably won't be spending much higher on a headphone than the price of an Aurvana Live. Will the Magni Modi combo be much better than sound cards with such a low end headphone?
> 
> Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!


Yes - DACs on their own do not amplify

No, keep your speakers on your onboard sound

I would like to say yes, although I'm not 100% sure how much those headphones benefit from amplification, someone here will know for definite


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Yes - DACs on their own do not amplify
> 
> No, keep your speakers on your onboard sound
> 
> I would like to say yes, although I'm not 100% sure how much those headphones benefit from amplification, someone here will know for definite


Thank you very much for the quick reply! Much appreciated!









What headphone would you recommend for the Magni Modi combo? (for games, music and movies)

P.S. I apologize for asking noob questions, I really don't have any knowledge on DACs or amps. Thank you everyone for bearing with me. I really appreciate your patience.


----------



## bumblebee1980

the Xonar DG is the only sound card still worth recommending because it can be tucked away, it has a better line out (can drive 32 ohm headphones well), Dolby Headphone and it only cost $30.

sound cards are already at a disadvantage because computers can be really noisy inside, computers use switching mode power supplies not linear which are noisy, sound cards only have so much power to work with, PCI card has size and weight restrictions, you have to deal with bad stock drivers (see the Unified drivers changelog).

external D/A converters have no limitations.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you very much for the quick reply! Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What headphone would you recommend for the Magni Modi combo? (for games, music and movies)
> 
> P.S. I apologize for asking noob questions, I really don't have any knowledge on DACs or amps. Thank you everyone for bearing with me. I really appreciate your patience.


The modi/magni stack is a good first time setup, its not too bold in any particular area, clean neutral sound.

It really depends what sort of sound you're after, do you want a large sound stage? Because that will dictate if you need open or closed back headphones. Many questions to be asked and answered! But the more we find out the easier it is to choose the right headphones


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Xonar DG is the only sound card still worth recommending because it can be tucked away, it has a better line out (can drive 32 ohm headphones well), Dolby Headphone and it only cost $30.
> 
> sound cards are already at a disadvantage because computers can be really noisy inside, computers use switching mode power supplies not linear which are noisy, sound cards only have so much power to work with, PCI card has size and weight restrictions, you have to deal with bad stock drivers (see the Unified drivers changelog).
> 
> external D/A converters have no limitations.


I think I can afford to spend a bit more than $30, so I'm considering the Magni Modi combo now, as per your suggestion.

What headphones would you recommend for this setup?

Also, could you please link me to a UK based site that has these audio components for the lowest price available? I cannot find all of these on Amazon UK, and I think other sites might have them for a lower price.

Thanks a lot!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> The modi/magni stack is a good first time setup, its not too bold in any particular area, clean neutral sound.
> 
> It really depends what sort of sound you're after, do you want a large sound stage? Because that will dictate if you need open or closed back headphones. Many questions to be asked and answered! But the more we find out the easier it is to choose the right headphones


But is it significantly better than any discrete sound card available? Because that is the reason I'm considering DAC + headphone amp combo in the first place.

i) What is a sound stage? What is the difference between large and small sound stage?
ii) What are closed and open back headphones? What is the difference between the two?

Thank you very much!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I think I can afford to spend a bit more than $30, so I'm considering the Magni Modi combo now, as per your suggestion.
> 
> What headphones would you recommend for this setup?
> 
> Also, could you please link me to a UK based site that has these audio components for the lowest price available? I cannot find all of these on Amazon UK, and I think other sites might have them for a lower price.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


I live in Canada so I really can't help you there.

are these headphones for music, gaming? what do you listen to?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I think I can afford to spend a bit more than $30, so I'm considering the Magni Modi combo now, as per your suggestion.
> 
> What headphones would you recommend for this setup?
> 
> Also, could you please link me to a UK based site that has these audio components for the lowest price available? I cannot find all of these on Amazon UK, and I think other sites might have them for a lower price.
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But is it significantly better than any discrete sound card available? Because that is the reason I'm considering DAC + headphone amp combo in the first place.
> 
> i) What is a sound stage? What is the difference between large and small sound stage?
> ii) What are closed and open back headphones? What is the difference between the two?
> 
> Thank you very much!


There's only one supplier of Schiit equipment in the UK, www.electromod.co.uk

Bumblebee is probably better at recommending a headphone for you than I, she will explain all


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I live in Canada so I really can't help you there.
> 
> are these headphones for music, gaming? what do you listen to?


I play a variety of games (BF4, Sims, NFS, GTA, Tomb Raider, AC etc), watch movies of all sorts, and listen to a variety of music (if you want a genre that I listen to the most, I guess I'd have to say rock.) To name a few artists, I currently have The Script, The Fray, Armin Van Buuren, Edward Maya, Maroon 5 on my playlist. I listen to the likes of Metallica and Linkin Park from time to time as well and I also listen to Ludovico Einaudi and Buckethead. I hope that this gives you an idea of what the headphones are going to be used for.

I know I probably sound extremely vague, but please ask me for more specific information if you deem it necessary to make a suggestion.

Thank you very much!









P.S. And I think that Magical Eskimo should be able to help with a UK-based site alternative to Amazon, seeing that he's from England.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> There's only one supplier of Schiit equipment in the UK, www.electromod.co.uk
> 
> Bumblebee is probably better at recommending a headphone for you than I, she will explain all


Thanks a lot for the name of the site!









Okay I'll talk to her about the headphones. Thanks again!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I play a variety of games (BF4, Sims, NFS, GTA, Tomb Raider, AC etc), watch movies of all sorts, and listen to a variety of music (if you want a genre that I listen to the most, I guess I'd have to say rock.) To name a few artists, I currently have The Script, The Fray, Armin Van Buuren, Edward Maya, Maroon 5 on my playlist. I listen to the likes of Metallica and Linkin Park from time to time as well and I also listen to Ludovico Einaudi and Buckethead. I hope that this gives you an idea of what the headphones are going to be used for.
> 
> I know I probably sound extremely vague, but please ask me for more specific information if you deem it necessary to make a suggestion.
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. And I think that Magical Eskimo should be able to help with a UK-based site alternative to Amazon, seeing that he's from England.
> Thanks a lot for the name of the site!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I'll talk to her about the headphones. Thanks again!


AKG K612 Pro. read some good things but haven't listened my self so call it a blind recommendation. I really like the Sennheiser HD600 but probably out of your budget.


----------



## bumblebee1980

if somebody has a better recommendation don't keep it to yourself. the problem is all the headphones I like are expensive









make sure you buy from a store that has a good return policy. restocking fees suck.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> AKG K612 Pro. read some good things but haven't listened my self so call it a blind recommendation. I really like the Sennheiser HD600 but probably out of your budget.


I really like the looks of the HD600 as well, but sadly you are right and it is way out of my budget.

I know that I'm probably not in a position to be nit-picking, but would you mind mentioning a few other suggestions, preferably ones that you have had experience with?

Thanks a lot!: )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> if somebody has a better recommendation don't keep it to yourself. the problem is *all the headphones I like are expensive*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> make sure you buy from a store that has a good return policy. restocking fees suck.


That kinda sucks for me right now.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I really like the looks of the HD600 as well, but sadly you are right and it is way out of my budget.
> 
> I know that I'm probably not in a position to be nit-picking, but would you mind mentioning a few other suggestions, preferably ones that you have had experience with?
> 
> Thanks a lot!: )
> That kinda sucks for me right now.


Beyerdynamic DT990.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Beyerdynamic DT990.


What is the difference between the DT990 and its Pro version?

Also, I know that you haven't used the AKG K612 Pro, but would the DT990 (either normal or Pro) be better or worse than the AKG headphone, especially seeing that the AKG is priced higher.

Thanks a lot for all your help! I really appreciate it!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> What is the difference between the DT990 and its Pro version?
> 
> Also, I know that you haven't used the AKG K612 Pro, but would the DT990 (either normal or Pro) be better or worse than the AKG headphone, especially seeing that the AKG is priced higher.
> 
> Thanks a lot for all your help! I really appreciate it!


I have no idea. this is the model I checked out a while ago

http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-600-Headphones/dp/B0024NK34O

I still like the Sennheiser HD600 more.

this guy reviewed the entire Beyerdynamic DT line

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more

I think AKG makes great headphones but I always found them too edgy and spacious with the music I listen to (rock, alternative, metal). recently they have been making headphones that I do like.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/694490/akg-k612-vs-q701

a lot of good things said about them.


----------



## fragamemnon

Yay! My current PC theme colour appears as a base for the revamped logos!









I really like it, plus nice job.

I guess if we wan..._would like_ you to do something we should simply push you around and gears shall be ground.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Yay! My current PC theme colour appears as a base for the revamped logos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like it, plus nice job.
> 
> I guess if we wan..._would like_ you to do something we should simply push you around and gears shall be ground.


are you a cylon?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Yay! My current PC theme colour appears as a base for the revamped logos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like it, plus nice job.
> 
> I guess if we wan...would like you to do something we should simply push you around and gears shall be ground.


~Puts a bag over your head and throws you in the back of a trunk~


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I have no idea. this is the model I checked out a while ago
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-600-Headphones/dp/B0024NK34O
> 
> I still like the Sennheiser HD600 more.
> 
> this guy reviewed the entire Beyerdynamic DT line
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
> 
> I think AKG makes great headphones but I always found them too edgy and spacious with the music I listen to (rock, alternative, metal). recently they have been making headphones that I do like.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694490/akg-k612-vs-q701
> 
> a lot of good things said about them.


What is the deal of Ohms? Do I want more or less?

Also, what is the difference between a 250 Ohm headphone and a 600 Ohm one? I ask this because the Pro version is 250 Ohm and the Premium version is 600 Ohm.

Thanks for the links to the review.


----------



## ahnafakeef

-sorry, my bad. ignore this post-


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> What is the deal of Ohms? Do I want more or less?
> 
> Also, what is the difference between a 250 Ohm headphone and a 600 Ohm one?
> 
> Thanks for the links to the review.


Headphone Impedance Explained
Headphone & Amp Impedance
And more sensitive/low impedance headphones are prone to backround hissing. For example my DT770 80ohm (silent) vs. HD681Evo 32ohm (small hissing noise).


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Yay! My current PC theme colour appears as a base for the revamped logos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like it, plus nice job.
> 
> I guess if we wan..._would like_ you to do something we should simply push you around and gears shall be ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you a cylon?
Click to expand...

By your comm..... *No!*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> ~Puts a bag over your head and throws you in the back of a trunk~


Just don't bring a blue yeti near me....


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Headphone Impedance Explained
> Headphone & Amp Impedance
> And more sensitive/low impedance headphones are prone to backround hissing. For example my DT770 80ohm (silent) vs. HD681Evo 32ohm (small hissing noise).


Thanks for being so resourceful. But is there any chance that you could explain it to me in a nutshell?

So the 600 Ohm version will have less background hissing than the 250 Ohm version. Okay, what other differences are there between the two?

Thank you very much!









Okay, I'm currently leaning towards this headphone.

Since I cannot judge by anything other than numbers, this seems to be a good compromise between price and performance to me.

Any feedback or alternate suggestion is most welcome. Thank you!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thanks for being so resourceful. But is there any chance that you could explain it to me in a nutshell?
> 
> So the 600 Ohm version will have less background hissing than the 250 Ohm version. Okay, what other differences are there between the two?
> 
> Thank you very much!


The hissing problem depends on the sound source, good external DAC/amp kills all the hissing even with 16ohm headphones.
General rule is to get the impedance which suits the amp best. Get 600ohm if you only use it on a good desktop amp, and lower impedance headphones if you are going to use a portable amp.

But keep in mind that you can get the 250ohm version much cheaper than the 600ohm in certain cases, in which I see no point to get the 600ohm.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> The hissing problem depends on the sound source, good external DAC/amp kills all the hissing even with 16ohm headphones.
> General rule is to get the impedance which suits the amp best. Get 600ohm if you only use it on a good desktop amp, and lower impedance headphones if you are going to use a portable amp.
> 
> But keep in mind that you can get the 250ohm version much cheaper than the 600ohm in certain cases, in which I see no point to get the 600ohm.


I'm going to use the headphones with a Schiit Magni/Modi combo setup. Is it going to be good enough to kill the hissing on the 250 Ohm headphone?

Thank you for the quick reply! Much appreciated!


----------



## Simca

Made several modifications to the thread, hint it's in the 3rd post, see if you can tell what they were.


----------



## fragamemnon

Have you decided that Paradigm Titans easier to find now?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> By your comm..... *No!*
> Just don't bring a blue yeti near me....


haha


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I'm going to use the headphones with a Schiit Magni/Modi combo setup. Is it going to be good enough to kill the hissing on the 250 Ohm headphone?
> 
> Thank you for the quick reply! Much appreciated!


Zero hissing.
Only my dinky Xonar DG makes hissing noises with my HD681Evo while the DT770 is silent as a grave.

If you want more detailed info on the sonic differences of the DT990 models: [GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More


----------



## Simca

I got rid of a lot of garbage commentary, removed the ugly underlining, added some more hifi and mid-fi speakers...and removed a few speakers.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> I got rid of a lot of garbage commentary, removed the ugly underlining, added some more hifi and mid-fi speakers...and removed a few speakers.


Behringer B3031A is now gone from the list


----------



## Simca

Do you nerds save the list or something.


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> By your comm..... *No!*
> Just don't bring a blue yeti near me....
> 
> 
> 
> haha
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pew pew pew
Click to expand...

NO!! There are no resurrection ships nearby...



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Do you nerds save the list or something.


I save it in my memory banks.

But, you're lucky for Blade hasn't seen it.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Zero hissing.
> Only my dinky Xonar DG makes hissing noises with my HD681Evo while the DT770 is silent as a grave.
> 
> If you want more detailed info on the sonic differences of the DT990 models: [GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More


That's a relief! Thank you very much! It feels good to have finally found what I was looking for!









As for that review, I was linked to it before by bumblebee1980. But I didn't understand anything since I do not know any of the terms (mids, treble etc).

Thanks again!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Do you nerds save the list or something.


Pffft... True nerds also buy the speakers.


----------



## KingG14

I need an advise from the audio experts here...

i have an Audio Technica A900X headphone and while they're good when it comes to gaming however when listening to music some instruments sound like they are really close to my ears, i don't like the imaging in general which annoys me specifically when listening to music and that what brings me to purchase my next new headphone, after doing a little research i'm kind of set on Hifiman HE-500 but the HE-400 is $200+ cheaper so would the HE-400 be a better choice at the price for all around headphone? i like an open sound stage and transparency in my headphones. Thanks!


----------



## Simca

So long as you can deal with, at times, sharp highs, then the HE-400s are better value.


----------



## KingG14

Sharp highs, i can deal with that at that price. So that's about the main weakness the HE-400 has compared to the HE-500. also i've heard the sound stage is much larger on He-400s is that true?


----------



## Simca

True. Difference in bass, but that's preference. Mids are sweeter on HE-500s, but the HE-400s aren't exactly V shaped. The mids are just slightly more recessed.


----------



## Frosch

can the odac/o2 combo be powered by usb?


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> can the odac/o2 combo be powered by usb?


No, but it can be powered by battery.


----------



## mikeaj

The O2 can be powered via the wall or by battery. On battery, max output power is a bit lower, but otherwise, things are very similar.

The ODAC is powered by USB.

O2/ODAC combo is some kind of after-the-fact cludge made way after the O2 was a thing. It's the O2 and ODAC thrown together. No, there's no electronics that do all the power conversion to power the O2 off of USB 5V. In fact, in the standard size chassis option that some offer, the ODAC fits in place of the O2 batteries so you can't even run the O2 part off of batteries in that case.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No, but it can be powered by battery.


okay thanks







, how about dacport vs aq dragonfly? which one is better?


----------



## Simca

Never heard the Dacport, dragonfly is just recommended for laptops.


----------



## mikeaj

CEntrace DACport, I'm assuming.
http://centrance.com/products/dacport/
http://www.stereophile.com/headphones/centrance_dacport_usb_headphone_amplifier/

It's powered off of USB. I'm guessing that this is for a laptop or some other scenario where AC power is undesired. Dragonfly is smaller and more convenient; all other things aside this should mean that in terms of performance and output power (the latter of which may be irrelevant depending on headphones used) the larger product doesn't need to make as much compromises and should be superior.

Also, it's just my opinion but I'd trust CEntrance a lot more as a company and its products than AudioQuest.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Never heard the Dacport, dragonfly is just recommended for laptops.


CEntrance DACport, I don't have my own PC, that's why I'm going to buy an usb powered dac/amp, and I'm torn between those two









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> CEntrace DACport, I'm assuming.
> http://centrance.com/products/dacport/
> http://www.stereophile.com/headphones/centrance_dacport_usb_headphone_amplifier/
> 
> It's powered off of USB. I'm guessing that this is for a laptop or some other scenario where AC power is undesired. Dragonfly is smaller and more convenient; all other things aside this should mean that in terms of performance and output power (the latter of which may be irrelevant depending on headphones used) the larger product doesn't need to make as much compromises and should be superior.
> 
> Also, it's just my opinion but I'd trust CEntrance a lot more as a company and its products than AudioQuest.


Yes, It's for laptop since I don't have a PC, thanks, I'd go for the DACport then


----------



## Rinimand

Hi there. Thanks for the thread - very informative and enlightening. This thread was started in 2011. Is the content in the first posting still updated and valid today? Or is it necessary to read through the entire thread to see products available / recommended today.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rinimand*
> 
> Hi there. Thanks for the thread - very informative and enlightening. This thread was started in 2011. Is the content in the first posting still updated and valid today? Or is it necessary to read through the entire thread to see products available / recommended today.


At the bottom of posts it says when it was last edited.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



There were recent edits for content, not just formatting or whatever else.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rinimand*
> 
> Hi there. Thanks for the thread - very informative and enlightening. This thread was started in 2011. Is the content in the first posting still updated and valid today? Or is it necessary to read through the entire thread to see products available / recommended today.


Simca just redid the thread so the original threads are very up-to-date!


----------



## KingG14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> True. Difference in bass, but that's preference. Mids are sweeter on HE-500s, but the HE-400s aren't exactly V shaped. The mids are just slightly more recessed.


I see. One more thing, do you think the HE-400s will be well driven by Xonar Essence st sound card.


----------



## Simca

No.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Yes, It's for laptop since I don't have a PC, thanks, I'd go for the DACport then


Depending on headphones and what you'd prefer in terms of headphone jack (1/4" or 1/8"), size, etc. some of the Leckerton Audio line should be fine too:
http://www.leckertonaudio.com/products/


----------



## gauchotodd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rinimand*
> 
> Hi there. Thanks for the thread - very informative and enlightening. This thread was started in 2011. Is the content in the first posting still updated and valid today? Or is it necessary to read through the entire thread to see products available / recommended today.


rofl


----------



## gauchotodd

Spent a few hours with the Momentums plugged in to the Dragonfly 1.2, and I'm really impressed. It really is an enormous improvement over the Xonar D1 in terms of clarity, balance, decay, and just overall fullness, and the amplification definitely makes a big difference as well. Despite being such easy to drive headphones, I can totally feel the extra power going through these [distasteful joke here]. This is the first time I've felt like these cans were sounding close to, if not really as good as they can sound. I'd like to get my hands on some HD600s or something similar to give them a run with it for comparison.

But yeah, this is such a wonderful setup for a laptop, and until I'm ready to drop $1000 on an Objective 2 and some HE-500s, it will do totally fine.


----------



## Frosch

Anyone else but me own the Takstar Pro 80 or Gemini HSR-1000? I think it's a wonderful point at their price point


----------



## bumblebee1980

the audio editor at techpowerup recommends them often. Takstar is the OEM for QPAD too. not available where I live.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gauchotodd*
> 
> Spent a few hours with the Momentums plugged in to the Dragonfly 1.2, and I'm really impressed. It really is an enormous improvement over the Xonar D1 in terms of clarity, balance, decay, and just overall fullness, and the amplification definitely makes a big difference as well. Despite being such easy to drive headphones, I can totally feel the extra power going through these [distasteful joke here]. This is the first time I've felt like these cans were sounding close to, if not really as good as they can sound. I'd like to get my hands on some HD600s or something similar to give them a run with it for comparison.
> 
> But yeah, this is such a wonderful setup for a laptop, and until I'm ready to *drop $1000 on an Objective 2 and some HE-500s*, it will do totally fine.


Unless you are buying new, it shouldn't be that much. I would shop on Head-Fi or even here for both the O2 amp and headphones. If you have concerns about used headphones, I suggest at least buying the O2 amp used.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 
> *Audioengine A2*
> 
> While they're not the highest fidelity speakers you can buy, they serve well for those wanting no hassle speakers that can be plugged in with some bass. To be honest though, the speakers have quite a bit of mid-bass that sometimes infringes upon music. Many people love their Audioengine speakers though. *Has a built in tweeter to provide some bass without a subwoofer.* Adding a subwoofer is always beneficial though, but if you were to, I would suggest buying other speakers.


wat.
Quote:


> A tweeter is a loudspeaker designed to produce high audio frequencies, typically from around 2,000 Hz to 20,000 Hz.....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter


----------



## mark_thaddeus

I think she meant woofers instead of tweeters!









Pretty funny though!


----------



## gauchotodd

Yeah, I definitely rounded up. Could probably pull that combo for ~$600, maybe a bit under with a really good deal. Still well over the cost of what I have, even bought new.


----------



## ahnafakeef

I apologize for bothering you guys with this, but can you please link me to USA-based stores for the following items? It will be cheaper to bring from USA (especially if the conversion is 1 UK pound = 1 US dollar). Please link me to the stores that are selling it for the cheapest. Thanks a lot!









1. http://www.electromod.co.uk/product-detail.asp?P=42
2. http://www.electromod.co.uk/product-detail.asp?P=41
3. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-Headset-250/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391172947&sr=8-1&keywords=beyerdynamic+dt990+pro
4. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-128GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391172801&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+840+pro+128gb

P.S. I'm posting here since most of the items are audio equipment. Thought I'd include the SSD as well. I hope you guys don't mind.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

www.schiit.com and www.amazon.com are good places to start.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> www.schiit.com and www.amazon.com are good places to start.


Thank you for the quick reply!









I see that the Magni and Modi cost $99 each on www.schiit.com. I guess that is the lowest I can get them for.
Btw, the Magni page asks me to specify AC adapter type. Which type should I get? The choices are USA, UK, Euro and Australian.

This and this is what the headphones and the SSD are going for on Amazon. Do you think that I could get them for less elsewhere?

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your help!


----------



## nvidiaftw12

What type of plugs do you have in your home?


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> What type of plugs do you have in your home?


Judging by a quick Google search, I have found that almost all of the electronics I have are either UK or Euro plug. So I guess either should be fine? I have multi-plugs that can connect any type of plugs too.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Yup.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Yup.


Thank you!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you for the quick reply!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see that the Magni and Modi cost $99 each on www.schiit.com. I guess that is the lowest I can get them for.
> Btw, the Magni page asks me to specify AC adapter type. Which type should I get? The choices are USA, UK, Euro and Australian.
> 
> This and this is what the headphones and the SSD are going for on Amazon. Do you think that I could get them for less elsewhere?
> 
> Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your help!


1. Best bet is to simply take a picture of your wall outlet socket and ask them.








2. Headphones you probably can find cheaper, especially used. SSD is $10 cheaper on Newegg.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Also for the headphones, I would get either 32 Ohm or 600 Ohm. You really don't want to settle for middle.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> 1. Best bet is to simply take a picture of your wall outlet socket and ask them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Headphones you probably can find cheaper, especially used. SSD is $10 cheaper on Newegg.


Thank you!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Also for the headphones, I would get either 32 Ohm or 600 Ohm. *You really don't want to settle for middle.*


Can you please explain why?

All the other models of the DT 990 cost a bit more (even the 32 Ohm version).

Thank you!









EDIT: I plan on using the headphones with Schiit's Magni/Modi combo, if it helps.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please explain why?
> 
> All the other models of the DT 990 cost a bit more (even the 32 Ohm version).
> 
> Thank you!


Anything over 32 ohms is not going to sound as good when paired with most portable sources, such as smartphones, DAP's, sound cards without amps, so on. If you are going to go amp however, might as well not put half-effort into and roll with the one that will sound the best when amped.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Anything over 32 ohms is not going to sound as good when paired with most portable sources, such as smartphones, DAP's, sound cards without amps, so on. If you are going to go amp however, might as well not put half-effort into and roll with the one that will sound the best when amped.


So the one with lesser ohms will sound better with smartphones, but the one with higher ohms will sound better with amps?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> So the one with lesser ohms will sound better with amps, but the one with higher ohms will sound better with smartphones?


Other way around. 32 ohms or less typically work well with portable sources that are unamped. Higher impedance headphones are harder to drive and need amplification of varying strengths to sound good or at the very least, better. If you are wondering whether or not sound will come out, yes, but it won't sound nearly as good as when hooked up to say an O2.

What I normally suggest however, is if it you intend on getting an amp then consider getting the highest impedance to increase the purchase value of that amp. If you plan on using it primarily with DAP's or smartphones, I would say to get the 32 ohm version. If you are using it out and about, I would only recommend DT770 as it is the only closed one.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Other way around. 32 ohms or less typically work well with portable sources that are unamped. Higher impedance headphones are harder to drive and need amplification of varying strengths to sound good or at the very least, better. If you are wondering whether or not sound will come out, yes, but it won't sound nearly as good as when hooked up to say an O2.
> 
> What I normally suggest however, is if it you intend on getting an amp then consider getting the highest impedance to increase the purchase value of that amp. If you plan on using it primarily with DAP's or smartphones, I would say to get the 32 ohm version. If you are using it out and about, I would only recommend DT770 as it is the only closed one.


Is an Objective 2 really that much better than a Schiit Magni? It costs only $30 more.

I am not planning on getting the best amp/dac combo out there. I was going to get a sound card, but I was recommended here that a dac/amp combo would be a much better choice. So I opted for that instead. But I can't spend too much right now. So if you have a dac/amp combo in mind that costs a little more than $200 (which is what the Magni/Modi combo costs) but performs considerably better (especially with the headphones that I'm considering), please let me know.

I'm going to use the headphone with the dac/amp setup on my PC only. Phones aren't a concern right now. I'm also going to be inside my house all the time which is considerably quite. So I don't think that I'm going to need a closed back headphone, unless there are some other advantages to it that I do not know of. So I am guessing that 600 ohms would be the best choice?

Sorry but I have to go offline for a while now. But we can continue this a few hours later. Thank you!


----------



## twerk

Quick question guys.

I'm looking at buying the Audioengine A2's but I'm not sure which route to go regarding the DAC. I can either get the A2 and Xonar DGX for £190 or I can go with the A2+ (integrated 16-bit DAC) for £215. Which would you say is better? Feel free to suggest any other options.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Is an Objective 2 really that much better than a Schiit Magni? It costs only $30 more.
> 
> I am not planning on getting the best amp/dac combo out there. I was going to get a sound card, but I was recommended here that a dac/amp combo would be a much better choice. So I opted for that instead. But I can't spend too much right now. So if you have a dac/amp combo in mind that costs a little more than $200 (which is what the Magni/Modi combo costs) but performs considerably better (especially with the headphones that I'm considering), please let me know.
> 
> I'm going to use the headphone with the dac/amp setup on my PC only. Phones aren't a concern right now. I'm also going to be inside my house all the time which is considerably quite. So I don't think that I'm going to need a closed back headphone, unless there are some other advantages to it that I do not know of. So I am guessing that 600 ohms would be the best choice?
> 
> Sorry but I have to go offline for a while now. But we can continue this a few hours later. Thank you!


That was just an example. I never used the Schiit budget amp so I can't honestly say. I did really like my O2 however. A lot of people recommend the D3 as well.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> That was just an example. I never used the Schiit budget amp so I can't honestly say. I did really like my O2 however. A lot of people recommend the D3 as well.


Since you are suggesting that I get a 600 Ohm headphone (irrespective of the dac/amp I get), do you have any recommendations as to which one is good and won't cost me too much? I want to decide on a headphone first, and then see if I can extend my budget for the dac/amp.

Also, what dac did you use with your O2?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Since you are suggesting that I get a 600 Ohm headphone (irrespective of the dac/amp I get), do you have any recommendations as to which one is good and won't cost me too much? I want to decide on a headphone first, and then see if I can extend my budget for the dac/amp.
> 
> Also, what dac did you use with your O2?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


ODAC.







I get mine at JDS Labs.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> ODAC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get mine at JDS Labs.


Is it significantly better than Schiit's DAC? Because they both cost the same.

Also, which 600 Ohm headphone do you suggest I get?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Is it significantly better than Schiit's DAC? Because they both cost the same.
> 
> Also, which 600 Ohm headphone do you suggest I get?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


I got my ODAC but Schiit had released theirs. I don't know if it is significantly better or not, as I only have had the ODAC. Most people that have listened to both agree that they are comparable. If you like dubstep and other types of EDM, perhaps the DT990? I would see if anyone recommends something else as well though, like from Ultrasone or somewhere else first to consider your options.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I got my ODAC but Schiit had released theirs. I don't know if it is significantly better or not, as I only have had the ODAC. Most people that have listened to both agree that they are comparable. If you like dubstep and other types of EDM, perhaps the DT990? I would see if anyone recommends something else as well though, like from Ultrasone or somewhere else first to consider your options.


Yes, I've been suggested the DT990. I was considering the 250 Ohm Pro version before you suggested I get a 600 ohm headphone. The 600 Ohm version costs $335 and I was really hoping that I could get something cheaper.

If they are similar in performance, I will save some money and get the Schiit. I'll be able to invest the money in the headphone.

As for my area of usage of the headphones, I play a variety of games (BF4, Sims, NFS, GTA, Tomb Raider, AC etc), watch movies of all sorts, and listen to a variety of music (if you want a genre that I listen to the most, I guess I'd have to say rock.) To name a few artists, I currently have The Script, The Fray, Armin Van Buuren, Edward Maya, Maroon 5 on my playlist. I listen to the likes of Metallica and Linkin Park from time to time as well and I also listen to Ludovico Einaudi and Buckethead.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Yes, I've been suggested the DT990. I was considering the 250 Ohm Pro version before you suggested I get a 600 ohm headphone. The 600 Ohm version costs $335 and I was really hoping that I could get something cheaper.
> 
> If they are similar in performance, I will save some money and get the Schiit. I'll be able to invest the money in the headphone.
> 
> As for my area of usage of the headphones, I play a variety of games (BF4, Sims, NFS, GTA, Tomb Raider, AC etc), watch movies of all sorts, and listen to a variety of music (if you want a genre that I listen to the most, I guess I'd have to say rock.) To name a few artists, I currently have The Script, The Fray, Armin Van Buuren, Edward Maya, Maroon 5 on my playlist. I listen to the likes of Metallica and Linkin Park from time to time as well and I also listen to Ludovico Einaudi and Buckethead.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


You don't have to get the 600 ohms version if it is outside your budget. I am not saying that the 250 ohm Pro does not sound good, just that the 600 ohm version scales better with amplification than the 250 ohm version. Either way, you will be happy. There is also the saying that ignorance is a bliss. Having never have heard either of them, you are more than likely going to be satisfied anyways. Conversely, if you don't like one, you won't like the other as they have the same overall sound signature.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> You don't have to get the 600 ohms version if it is outside your budget. I am not saying that the 250 ohm Pro does not sound good, just that the 600 ohm version scales better with amplification than the 250 ohm version. Either way, you will be happy. There is also the saying that ignorance is a bliss. Having never have heard either of them, you are more than likely going to be satisfied anyways. Conversely, if you don't like one, you won't like the other as they have the same overall sound signature.


There's a chance that I won't like them? Then I'm definitely not spending that kind of money on my first real headphone.

Okay, so the DT990 Premium 250 Ohm costs $225 whereas the 250 Ohm Pro version costs $148. What is the difference between the two?

Thank you!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> There's a chance that I won't like them? Then I'm definitely not spending that kind of money on my first real headphone.
> 
> Okay, so the DT990 Premium 250 Ohm costs $225 whereas the 250 Ohm Pro version costs $148. What is the difference between the two?
> 
> Thank you!


There is always a chance you may not like it unless you have already listened to it. Sound preference is a very personal thing. Will I think you won't? No.. Would I bet my house on it? No. Stranger things have happened. I am not too sure. I think the Pro supposedly has more bass, while the Premium is supposed to have more clarity.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> There is always a chance you may not like it unless you have already listened to it. Sound preference is a very personal thing. Will I think you won't? No.. Would I bet my house on it? No. Stranger things have happened. I am not too sure. I think the Pro supposedly has more bass, while the Premium is supposed to have more clarity.


Wow. This is the vaguest electronics equipment I've come across in a long time. I guess there is no clear winner when it comes to headphones.

Bass vs Clarity. That is a tough one. I loved the bass on my Beats (before you start judging you should know that it came with my HTC Sensation XE) and I miss it on the Samsung earphones (came with my S4) that I'm using now. I guess I'm leaning towards clarity for now, since nothing but the music that I listen to contains much bass.

Are their no objective comparisons of headphones? I'm getting really confused here. I was provided with an extensive review that had all the DT990 models reviewed, but they all referred to other headphones to describe how the sound felt.

Thanks a lot OC'ing Noob! I really appreciate your taking the time to help me. I hope that I'm not bothering you too much!


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> There is always a chance you may not like it unless you have already listened to it. Sound preference is a very personal thing. Will I think you won't? No.. Would I bet my house on it? No. Stranger things have happened. I am not too sure. I think the Pro supposedly has more bass, while the Premium is supposed to have more clarity.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. This is the vaguest electronics equipment I've come across in a long time. I guess there is no clear winner when it comes to headphones.
> 
> Bass vs Clarity. That is a tough one. I loved the bass on my Beats (before you start judging you should know that it came with my HTC Sensation XE) and I miss it on the Samsung earphones (came with my S4) that I'm using now. I guess I'm leaning towards clarity for now, since nothing but the music that I listen to contains much bass.
> 
> Are their no objective comparisons of headphones? I'm getting really confused here. *I was provided with an extensive review that had all the DT990 models reviewed, but they all referred to other headphones to describe how the sound felt.*
> 
> Thanks a lot OC'ing Noob! I really appreciate your taking the time to help me. I hope that I'm not bothering you too much!
Click to expand...

WTB decent E88CC tube.









That is because different people will interpret the same words in different ways.

For example, when I read something along the lines of "fantastic, deep bass", I imagine powerful enough lows to give you the exciting sensation of feeling your ears vibrate.
However, this is not always the case. Thankfully, members here opened my eyes of the two types of bass in headphones. "The typical basshead", which I described above who enjoys it, and other people that prefer more punchy but less overwhelming bass (who find the scenario above fatiguing).

Another example is with treble - in my case, I am very sensitive to treble (or as I would describe it: I enjoy it while it's crisp and clear right until the moment it becomes sharp) and I would prefer less accent on high frequencies. Hence, I would seek a darker sound pattern in a headphone and (eventually) on top of that, equalize some out.

So indeed the best way to describe a headphone is to compare and scale it to others. And you need to have heard one or more different pairs in order to establish your preference and also be able to judge whether the ones in discussion will fit to you or not.









A very subjective manner indeed.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> WTB decent E88CC tube.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is because different people will interpret the same words in different ways.
> 
> For example, when I read something along the lines of "fantastic, deep bass", I imagine powerful enough lows to give you the exciting sensation of feeling your ears vibrate.
> However, this is not always the case. Thankfully, members here opened my eyes of the two types of bass in headphones. "The typical basshead", which I described above who enjoys it, and other people that prefer more punchy but less overwhelming bass (who find the scenario above fatiguing).
> 
> Another example is with treble - in my case, I am very sensitive to treble (or as I would describe it: I enjoy it while it's crisp and clear right until the moment it becomes sharp) and I would prefer less accent on high frequencies. Hence, I would seek a darker sound pattern in a headphone and (eventually) on top of that, equalize some out.
> 
> So indeed the best way to describe a headphone is to compare and scale it to others. And you need to have heard one or more different pairs in order to establish your preference and also be able to judge whether the ones in discussion will fit to you or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A very subjective manner indeed.


Thanks for the informative reply!









What does "WTB decent E88CC tube" mean?

Guess I have no choice but to just select one at random. But are there any quantifiable factors (Crosstalk, SnR, Impedance etc.?) that I can judge a headphone by even without listening to it?

I wish there were well-defined guidelines for newbies like me.









Thanks again!


----------



## mikeaj

Premium is mostly Beyerdynamic's way of getting audiophiles to spend more money on mostly the same thing. The Pro versions should clamp the head slightly harder, which results in slightly more bass. Take away a little bass (stretch out the headband) and you can hear other frequencies more so you get a little more clarity.

WTB = want to buy
E88CC is a double triode vacuum tube retro electronics part. Some people make and use headphone amps based on parts like these.

Even when hearing the same thing and focusing on the same things, different people may describe the sounds in different ways and have different preferences.

I'm not sure what you would call an "objective comparison" of headphones. There are few published results of controlled listening tests with users for headphones. However, there are some sites that publish audio and electrical measurements of headphones, so there is some hard data. I think this is what you're asking for. This is done by placing headphones on a dummy head that simulates an average human head and ears; measurements are taken with microphones embedded inside the "ear canals" of the dummy head.

Note that the ear and head shape affects how headphones and how real life sounds to a person, so the in-ear response one person gets with a headphone may be different than what another person or the dummy head gets. Also, note that there is some unit-to-unit variability between headphones of the same model, so what someone measured may not really represent what you get on a different headphone sample. In addition, different measurement / review data may be doing different frequency response compensation and smoothing, measurement techniques, different dummy heads, procedures, etc. In other words, don't compare data between different sites.

Here are a few resources:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php
http://en.goldenears.net/GR_Headphones

Most important is the frequency response, but again, there is no guarantee that you will get the same frequency response on your head as what they test. However, it should generally be mostly accurate. And within data for one site, you can do crosscomparisons that are usually indicative of what you get in reality. Note that the frequency compensation used in most sites is such that if a headphone at a flat response, it would sound perceptually bright on most music to most people. The "proper" flat response is still a matter of ongoing research, though that is not necessarily what you want anyway.

There should be very little crosstalk with headphones. I could describe more if you wanted, but it's generally not something to consider. The (primary) contribution of noise would be from the listening environment usually; if not, from the audio electronics attached to the headphones, not the headphones themselves. The sensitivity and impedance can describe how loud the headphones may be and (mostly) whether or not they will be difficult for amps to drive.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I got my ODAC but Schiit had released theirs. I don't know if it is significantly better or not, as I only have had the ODAC. Most people that have listened to both agree that they are comparable. If you like dubstep and other types of EDM, perhaps the DT990? I would see if anyone recommends something else as well though, like from Ultrasone or somewhere else first to consider your options.


I would recommend researching and looking into Schiit considering how they handled NwAvGuy and how he exposed how their lack of relays and headphone protection circuit's was causing drivers to be exposed to excessive voltages. Here is a video where this kind of effect can be seen when turning the amplifier on/off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZ-AJQOiDg

While their current line-ups and products have relay protection I would hesitate before purchasing a Schiit Magni/Modi combo due to their history and what happened to NwAvGuy.

The O2+ODAC is by far the best price/performance amp and dac combo and the only one that comes close to it is the JDS Labs C5D combo. Fiio E18 would also be somewhere on that list as well. There really is no point in investing in a tube amp unless a Bottlehead crack can be built and if you have the DIY skills to solder one together and assemble it.

Some links for reference:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/banned-at-head-fi.html
http://pastebin.com/EgsUWZtd


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> I would stay away from Schiit considering how they handled NwAvGuy and how he exposed how their lack of relays and headphone protection circuit's was causing drivers to be exposed to excessive voltages. Here is a video where this kind of effect can be seen when turning the amplifier on/off:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZ-AJQOiDg
> 
> The O2+ODAC is by far the best price/performance amp and dac combo and the only one that comes close to it is the JDS Labs C5D combo. Fiio E18 would also be somewhere on that list as well. There really is no point in investing in a tube amp unless a Bottlehead crack can be built and if you have the DIY skills to solder one together and assemble it.


Um this is fixed.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tompsonn*
> 
> Um this is fixed.


That's what I posted in my above post. I'll quote it from my post:
Quote:


> "While their current line-ups and products have relay protection I would hesitate before purchasing a Schiit Magni/Modi combo due to their history and what happened to NwAvGuy."


I'll also quote the following from the K702 video:
Quote:


> ZinjaShike1 year agoin reply to phototristan
> 
> I'm the one that brought this to Schiit's attention, and OP of said thread at Head-Fi where it was shown to the community. I had emails with Jason regarding the issue before the HF thread. He said the amp was fine having no problems in-spite of the video. It wasn't until it became a potential PR nightmare that could bury the company that he made a move. He moaned about having to install the relays, made excuses to not have it done, and blamed users. You know 2/3 of what happened at best.


Quote:


> ZinjaShike1 year agoin reply to phototristan
> 
> There's better amps as the same price actually. The DC voltage comment is wrong. Other amps that do DC large dumps are rare and only do it with high source DC, the Asgard does it itself in comparison and requires disconnecting transducers entirely. See pastbin in video description for entire recount of experience with Schiit. Jason's response was damage control, no more no less. He had no interest in handling this issue when first brought up, community attention forced his hand.


----------



## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> That's what I posted in my above post. I'll quote it from my post:
> I'll also quote the following from the K702 video:


I ninja'd you before you edited the post


----------



## Fortunex

Just picked up some DT1350s on sale for $200CAD. Pretty impressed with the sound for the price and considering it's a portable.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Premium is mostly Beyerdynamic's way of getting audiophiles to spend more money on mostly the same thing. The Pro versions should clamp the head slightly harder, which results in slightly more bass. Take away a little bass (stretch out the headband) and you can hear other frequencies more so you get a little more clarity.
> 
> WTB = want to buy
> E88CC is a double triode vacuum tube retro electronics part. Some people make and use headphone amps based on parts like these.
> 
> Even when hearing the same thing and focusing on the same things, different people may describe the sounds in different ways and have different preferences.
> 
> I'm not sure what you would call an "objective comparison" of headphones. There are few published results of controlled listening tests with users for headphones. However, there are some sites that publish audio and electrical measurements of headphones, so there is some hard data. I think this is what you're asking for. This is done by placing headphones on a dummy head that simulates an average human head and ears; measurements are taken with microphones embedded inside the "ear canals" of the dummy head.
> 
> Note that the ear and head shape affects how headphones and how real life sounds to a person, so the in-ear response one person gets with a headphone may be different than what another person or the dummy head gets. Also, note that there is some unit-to-unit variability between headphones of the same model, so what someone measured may not really represent what you get on a different headphone sample. In addition, different measurement / review data may be doing different frequency response compensation and smoothing, measurement techniques, different dummy heads, procedures, etc. In other words, don't compare data between different sites.
> 
> Here are a few resources:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads
> http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php
> http://en.goldenears.net/GR_Headphones
> 
> Most important is the frequency response, but again, there is no guarantee that you will get the same frequency response on your head as what they test. However, it should generally be mostly accurate. And within data for one site, you can do crosscomparisons that are usually indicative of what you get in reality. Note that the frequency compensation used in most sites is such that if a headphone at a flat response, it would sound perceptually bright on most music to most people. The "proper" flat response is still a matter of ongoing research, though that is not necessarily what you want anyway.
> 
> There should be very little crosstalk with headphones. I could describe more if you wanted, but it's generally not something to consider. The (primary) contribution of noise would be from the listening environment usually; if not, from the audio electronics attached to the headphones, not the headphones themselves. The sensitivity and impedance can describe how loud the headphones may be and (mostly) whether or not they will be difficult for amps to drive.


Thank you very much for the informative reply! Much appreciated!









Okay I'll stick to the 250 Ohm Pro version of the DT990.

What are your thoughts on Amp/DAC combos? Which one would cost less and be good for the money?

Thanks again!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I would recommend researching and looking into Schiit considering how they handled NwAvGuy and how he exposed how their lack of relays and headphone protection circuit's was causing drivers to be exposed to excessive voltages. Here is a video where this kind of effect can be seen when turning the amplifier on/off:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZ-AJQOiDg
> 
> While their current line-ups and products have relay protection I would hesitate before purchasing a Schiit Magni/Modi combo due to their history and what happened to NwAvGuy.
> 
> The O2+ODAC is by far the best price/performance amp and dac combo and the only one that comes close to it is the JDS Labs C5D combo. Fiio E18 would also be somewhere on that list as well. There really is no point in investing in a tube amp unless a Bottlehead crack can be built and if you have the DIY skills to solder one together and assemble it.
> 
> Some links for reference:
> 
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/banned-at-head-fi.html
> http://pastebin.com/EgsUWZtd


Which one is better performance-wise - O2+ODAC combo or C5D combo? Although cheaper than either, where does the Magni/Modi combo stand when compared to these two?

Which one among the ones mentioned is a tube amp?

Thank you!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you very much for the informative reply! Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I'll stick to the 250 Ohm Pro version of the DT990.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Amp/DAC combos? Which one would cost less and be good for the money?
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which one is better performance-wise - O2+ODAC combo or C5D combo? Although cheaper than either, where does the Magni/Modi combo stand when compared to these two?
> 
> Which one among the ones mentioned is a tube amp?
> 
> Thank you!


the Schiit Vali is a hybrid tube amp that uses small pencil tubes called Raytheons.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> the Schiit Vali is a hybrid tube amp that uses small pencil tubes called Raytheons.


Does it have any advantage over amps that are not of the hybrid tube category?

But going by 45nm's advice, I guess I shouldn't even consider a Vali, since I don't know how to make a Bottlehead crack (or even know what it is).

Thank you.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Does it have any advantage over amps that are not of the hybrid tube category?
> 
> But going by 45nm's advice, I guess I shouldn't even consider a Vali, since I don't know how to make a Bottlehead crack (or even know what it is).
> 
> Thank you.


Bottlehead Crack is a DIY Tube Headphone Amplifier Kit












you need to put it together. it's all point to point soldering.

Schiit Vali is already built. advantages? sure.. tube amplifiers are slim pickings at $100


----------



## Alex132

I'd love to make one of those, but sadly I am in South Africa.... and I don't think I can order the parts


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I'd love to make one of those, but sadly I am in South Africa.... and I don't think I can order the parts


you would import the kit. the kit comes with everything you need.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Bottlehead Crack is a DIY Tube Headphone Amplifier Kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you need to put it together. it's all point to point soldering.
> 
> Schiit Vali is already built. advantages? sure.. tube amplifiers are slim pickings at $100


No thanks. I'll get a pre-assembled one.

What about the issues with Schiit products like the others mentioned?

Also, does the Vali perform as well as other more expensive tube amplifiers?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Kyronn94

Ok, so my 10 year old Creative speakers are showing signs of death and I need something to replace them with.

How are Corsair SP 2500's?
I very much like the look of them and I have read good reviews.

I'm in the UK so some things in the OP are not necessarily very easy to find.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I'd love to make one of those, but sadly I am in South Africa.... and I don't think I can order the parts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you would import the kit. the kit comes with everything you need.
Click to expand...

link?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> Ok, so my 10 year old Creative speakers are showing signs of death and I need something to replace them with.
> 
> How are Corsair SP 2500's?
> I very much like the look of them and I have read good reviews.
> 
> I'm in the UK so some things in the OP are not necessarily very easy to find.


AV40
BX5 D2
ESI nEar05
Microlabs Solo7C
Microlabs Solo6C
Or used Whafedale Diamond with a cheap amp.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> link?


You can order it straight from Bottlehead:

http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php

If I'm not mistaken you need to create an account in order to purchase the amp. After creating one go to the headphone amp section and choose the kit.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you very much for the informative reply! Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I'll stick to the 250 Ohm Pro version of the DT990.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Amp/DAC combos? Which one would cost less and be good for the money?
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which one is better performance-wise - O2+ODAC combo or C5D combo? Although cheaper than either, where does the Magni/Modi combo stand when compared to these two?
> 
> Which one among the ones mentioned is a tube amp?
> 
> Thank you!


The O2+ODAC can be purchased from JDS labs already assembled and integrated on the same board. Blind tests have shown that the combo can match even the more expensive benchmark dac/amp which costs thousands of dollars. If you want the best price to performance the O2+ODAC is the best choice. The Audio Editor of this section chinesekiwi has one as well. The benefit to it as well over the Schiit stack which is the Magni/Modi is that it takes up less space, uses only one power adapter, doesn't require interconnect cables and can drive even planar headphones such as the he-6 and the 500. JDS Labs also has distributors from which you can purchase it from as well.

As for tube amps the only ones i would consider is either the bottlehead or the wa7 from woo audio. Tube amps have their own disadvantages as well particularly with rendering headphones colored or flavored. This is why i would recommend the odac+o2 combo as it is neutral, designd by a legend in hifi, can drive the majority of headphones, is small and compact, and doesn't require drivers since it is usb audio class 1.

As for tests between the stack, c5d and the odac+o2 depending on who you ask the stack and o2 come very close to each other or are better than one another. Me personally i don't like the way Jason from Schiit handled the issue with relays and headphone protection. I linked it above if you want to take a look but their current products have relays built in now. The C5D is more meant to be a portable amplifier and dac combo but can be used for desktop purposes.


----------



## Kyronn94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> AV40
> BX5 D2
> ESI nEar05
> Microlabs Solo7C
> Microlabs Solo6C
> Or used Whafedale Diamond with a cheap amp.


Thanks!
Ordered a set of AV40's, found them on Amazon.

Unfortunately, my main rig is itx, so no room for a sound card!
I was thinking of a usb sound card / dac - again I know little about this.
Saw a video from linus recently on the Fiio Olympus E10, I was thinking something like that?

Any advice?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> Thanks!
> Ordered a set of AV40's, found them on Amazon.
> 
> Unfortunately, my main rig is itx, so no room for a sound card!
> I was thinking of a usb sound card / dac - again I know little about this.
> Saw a video from linus recently on the Fiio Olympus E10, I was thinking something like that?
> 
> Any advice?


Thomann is selling the AV40 bundled with Behringer UCA222, so why not pick one from amazon?
*review by the designer of the ODAC/O2*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> *BOTTOM LINE*: If you your PC has marginal line outputs to feed an outboard sound system, amp, use for measurements, etc., the UCA202 is a bargain and offers significantly better performance than most built-in sound hardware. It also makes a good second interface (Windows 7 lets you assign different software/sounds to different interfaces). It's especially useful for laptops that often have inferior sound hardware and often no line inputs or outputs at all. So if you're not looking for a high-end solution, the UCA202 might fill the need and save you some serious money. If you want a headphone amp, and happen to have some 80 - 600 ohm fairly efficient headphones, the UCA202 is also worth considering. The headphone amp mostly measures very well, offers excellent channel balance, and has reasonably low noise. The only real downsides are the output impedance and power. If these are not a problem for your application, it might be an ideal solution. You could also use the line outputs to drive a dedicated analog headphone amp.


----------



## mikeaj

Sometimes, depending on what's in the system and how much they paid attention to analog audio performance in the mobo layout, onboard audio can outperform low-end external USB sound options like UCA222.

With respect to amp/DAC performance, it depends what you're looking for in "performance." Does usability and ergonomics count? Are you expecting something that seems to sound best to you, something with best electrical benchmarks, or something that makes a verifiably appreciable difference in the sound through the headphones?

O2 and ODAC benchmarks are good for the price, especially the O2. But some of this is not particularly in ways that are likely to be appreciable, such as super-low noise levels that doesn't create audible hiss for most people on hypersensitive IEMs when you're using much less sensitive headphones, or say the distortion figures at orders of magnitude below what the headphones produce.

As for what (seems to; is perceived to) sound good, that depends a lot on what you're expecting.

If you don't know what you want or what you're getting yourself into, I'd recommend just trying the headphones out of onboard so you can get a sense of what you might want to upgrade from first.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Sometimes, depending on what's in the system and how much they paid attention to analog audio performance in the mobo layout, onboard audio can outperform low-end external USB sound options like UCA222.
> 
> With respect to amp/DAC performance, it depends what you're looking for in "performance." Does usability and ergonomics count? Are you expecting something that seems to sound best to you, something with best electrical benchmarks, or something that makes a verifiably appreciable difference in the sound through the headphones?
> 
> O2 and ODAC benchmarks are good for the price, especially the O2. But some of this is not particularly in ways that are likely to be appreciable, such as super-low noise levels that doesn't create audible hiss for most people on hypersensitive IEMs when you're using much less sensitive headphones, or say the distortion figures at orders of magnitude below what the headphones produce.
> 
> As for what (seems to; is perceived to) sound good, that depends a lot on what you're expecting.
> 
> If you don't know what you want or what you're getting yourself into, I'd recommend just trying the headphones out of onboard so you can get a sense of what you might want to upgrade from first.


I think he only has the AV40 speakers and no headphones


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quick question, is there much difference between the Schiit Audio Magni and the Schiit Audio Asgard 2 apart from the Asgard having more connections?

Thanks


----------



## Simca

They sound different, look up an in depth review to see how they differ. Magni is more sterile.


----------



## Belial

I got a question. I have the Z87X-UD3H, which is an ALC898 + DRV632 600 ohm headphone amp by TI. I hear the alc898 is pretty good, and then it's got this amp on it so it can drive the high impedance headphones I imagine.

Would a sound card or something sound better than this? I really didn't see anything in the list that fit a budget of well under $100, and there's no Fiio's or E11s and stuff mentioned that i hear a lot about on head-fi (dont ask me, i dont know them well). Everything I see on the list is always super expensive, there's a few soundcards but they dont seem like they'd be an upgrade over my 600 ohm integrated headphone amp.

Thanks. I'd be interested in improving my sound if it only cost like $20-50 for a sound card... or dac, or whatever. I know you say integrated sound is bad but i dont know if that's still true since you made that claim like 3 years ago and a lot has improved on integrated sound since then. Would I even notice a difference from my sound set-up to a $30 card, or $100-200 DAC/AMP set-up?

And I am SO confused on dacs/amps. You don't really explain them. What I got from your guide was 'dac's make things sound better, but sometimes dac's dont have amps and sometimes they do, but even if they do, you might not be able to plug your headphones into them, in which case you need an amp (seriously, you can't just mod the line in? isn't a headphone line just 2 wires anyways?).

I mean if I bought like the dt990 250ohm pro, i could drive them off my mobo system, but I can't drive them off those sound cards. But you have no sub-$100 dac/amp set-up.

thanks.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> The O2+ODAC can be purchased from JDS labs already assembled and integrated on the same board. Blind tests have shown that the combo can match even the more expensive benchmark dac/amp which costs thousands of dollars. If you want the best price to performance the O2+ODAC is the best choice. The Audio Editor of this section chinesekiwi has one as well. The benefit to it as well over the Schiit stack which is the Magni/Modi is that it takes up less space, uses only one power adapter, doesn't require interconnect cables and can drive even planar headphones such as the he-6 and the 500. JDS Labs also has distributors from which you can purchase it from as well.
> 
> As for tube amps the only ones i would consider is either the bottlehead or the wa7 from woo audio. Tube amps have their own disadvantages as well particularly with rendering headphones colored or flavored. This is why i would recommend the odac+o2 combo as it is neutral, designd by a legend in hifi, can drive the majority of headphones, is small and compact, and doesn't require drivers since it is usb audio class 1.
> 
> As for tests between the stack, c5d and the odac+o2 depending on who you ask the stack and o2 come very close to each other or are better than one another. Me personally i don't like the way Jason from Schiit handled the issue with relays and headphone protection. I linked it above if you want to take a look but their current products have relays built in now. The C5D is more meant to be a portable amplifier and dac combo but can be used for desktop purposes.


Okay. Thanks a lot!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Sometimes, depending on what's in the system and how much they paid attention to analog audio performance in the mobo layout, onboard audio can outperform low-end external USB sound options like UCA222.
> 
> With respect to amp/DAC performance, it depends what you're looking for in "performance." Does usability and ergonomics count? Are you expecting something that seems to sound best to you, something with best electrical benchmarks, or something that makes a verifiably appreciable difference in the sound through the headphones?
> 
> O2 and ODAC benchmarks are good for the price, especially the O2. But some of this is not particularly in ways that are likely to be appreciable, such as super-low noise levels that doesn't create audible hiss for most people on hypersensitive IEMs when you're using much less sensitive headphones, or say the distortion figures at orders of magnitude below what the headphones produce.
> 
> As for what (seems to; is perceived to) sound good, that depends a lot on what you're expecting.
> 
> If you don't know what you want or what you're getting yourself into, I'd recommend just trying the headphones out of onboard so you can get a sense of what you might want to upgrade from first.


Usability and ergonomics don't count since the amp/dac will just sit on computer desk at all times.
By performance, I mean the ability to produce better sound (measured of course by what sounds better to one's ears, not just benchmarks).
As for my expectation, I expect a major difference in sound quality over my SupremeFX IV + Samsung earphones combo. Like the difference between boot times on a mechanical HDD and on an SSD, like the difference between the smoothness of 20FPS and 60FPS, like the difference between an IPS and a TN panel in terms of image quality. I hope that the analogies are more or less appropriate.

I am sorry but could you please explain the problems that you mentioned about the O2+ODAC (in the 3rd paragraph) in plainer terms? I didn't understand much from what you said.

Thank you very much!


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> No thanks. I'll get a pre-assembled one.
> 
> What about the issues with Schiit products like the others mentioned?
> 
> Also, does the Vali perform as well as other more expensive tube amplifiers?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


assembled ones cost $400.

no.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> assembled ones cost $400.
> 
> no.


Thank you! I'm actually thinking of getting a O2+ODAC combo.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Okay. Thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usability and ergonomics don't count since the amp/dac will just sit on computer desk at all times.
> By performance, I mean the ability to produce better sound (measured of course by what sounds better to one's ears, not just benchmarks).
> As for my expectation, I expect a major difference in sound quality over my SupremeFX IV + Samsung earphones combo. Like the difference between boot times on a mechanical HDD and on an SSD, like the difference between the smoothness of 20FPS and 60FPS, like the difference between an IPS and a TN panel in terms of image quality. I hope that the analogies are more or less appropriate.
> 
> I am sorry but could you please explain the problems that you mentioned about the O2+ODAC (in the 3rd paragraph) in plainer terms? I didn't understand much from what you said.
> 
> Thank you very much!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Thank you very much for the informative reply! Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I'll stick to the 250 Ohm Pro version of the DT990.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Amp/DAC combos? Which one would cost less and be good for the money?
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which one is better performance-wise - O2+ODAC combo or C5D combo? Although cheaper than either, where does the Magni/Modi combo stand when compared to these two?
> 
> Which one among the ones mentioned is a tube amp?
> 
> Thank you!


Don't worry about it. He just means that if you are using sensitive and low-impendance IEM (earbud's) then it might create some very low and barely audible noise. There is no point in purchasing an O2+ODAC and using it to amplify or boost earbuds. If you are looking for some great headphones to pair with the ODAC+O2 combo I would suggest the following:

Hifiman He-400
Sennheiser Hd700
Hifiman He-500

I will also be purchasing the O2+ODAC combo perhaps either next month or later this month. I'm still waiting for the Sennheiser HD800 and I'll be pairing it with that. If you want to read more about the O2 headphone amp you can take a look here:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> Don't worry about it. He just means that if you are using sensitive and low-impendance IEM (earbud's) then it might create some very low and barely audible noise. There is no point in purchasing an O2+ODAC and using it to amplify or boost earbuds. If you are looking for some great headphones to pair with the ODAC+O2 combo I would suggest the following:
> 
> Hifiman He-400
> Sennheiser Hd700
> Hifiman He-500
> 
> I will also be purchasing the O2+ODAC combo perhaps either next month or later this month. I'm still waiting for the Sennheiser HD800 and I'll be pairing it with that. If you want to read more about the O2 headphone amp you can take a look here:
> 
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html


So the O2+ODAC combo will be good enough to push even high-end headphones like the HD800? That's good. I am tired of having to upgrade every component of my computer every two years or so.

I'm planning on getting a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 Ohm. Don't have the budget for the likes of the HD700 right now.

Thank you!


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> So the O2+ODAC combo will be good enough to push even high-end headphones like the HD800? That's good. I am tired of having to upgrade every component of my computer every two years or so.
> 
> I'm planning on getting a Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 Ohm. Don't have the budget for the likes of the HD700 right now.
> 
> Thank you!


The o2+odac will drive hd800 hundreds _okay_ but not to their full potential. IMO if you can justify spending the cash on a pair of HD800s, you can justify spending more on the DAC/amp to get the most out of them


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> The o2+odac will drive hd800 hundreds _okay_ but not to their full potential. IMO if you can justify spending the cash on a pair of HD800s, you can justify spending more on the DAC/amp to get the most out of them


Of course, if at some point I end up buying headphones that are that expensive, I will definitely consider getting a better dac/amp setup, and especially if the O2+ODAC combo doesn't drive the new headphones well enough.

But the chances of my buying HD800s are very low. I'd rather invest in GPUs and a higher resolution screen.

Thank you!


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> The o2+odac will drive hd800 hundreds _okay_ but not to their full potential. IMO if you can justify spending the cash on a pair of HD800s, you can justify spending more on the DAC/amp to get the most out of them


Quote:


> LISTENING TEST: The O2 was stacked up against the well regarded $1600 Benchmark DAC1 Pre in a listening challenge. The DAC1 is something of a favorite in the audiophile headphone community. A lot of subjective critics, and those who have measured it, really love it. So it's all the more satisfying nobody has yet been able to tell the O2 from the DAC1's headphone amp. The DAC1 Pre earned Stereophile's top class A rating in the headphone category, a product of the year award, and countless other accolades. It has been described as "stupefyingly good" and "a revelation". The headphones used in the comparison include the Sennheiser HD650s, Denon AH-D2000s, Etymotic ER-4s, Ultimate Ears SuperFi Pro 5s, and Beyer DT770s. Collectively they cover a wide range of impedance curves, efficiencies, types and subjective tastes in sound. The Denons and Etys are ruthlessly revealing, the HD650s are incredibly musical, the SuperFis ultra efficient, and the Beyers show off performance in the deepest bass. I hope to conduct more listening comparisons involving the O2 and perhaps even a public challenge or two. In short, I'm willing to back up my claims for the O2. Perhaps an O2 listening challenge is in your future?


Quote:


> PRELIMINARY FEEDBACK: Initial feedback from others has been very positive. As of September 2011 there are at least a half dozen or so O2 amps "in the wild" and feedback has been nearly all positive. One user compared the O2 to the $1000+ AMB beta22 using $1000 Audeze LCD-2 headphones and wasn't sure he could hear any differences.


http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

The O2 can drive the LCD2 and the He-500 quite well and those are more demanding headphones in terms of wattage than the Hd800.I also recommend taking a look at the above quoted text from Nwavguy's website.


----------



## Mog84kupo

Hi!!

I'm new to the fourm, so....the best to everybody here from Mexico

I just build my first PC and as part of the finishing touches I wanted to get a headset, the Cooler Master Storm Sirus S w/control module to be precise

However, afeter doing some reseach online I found this page (along with many others) that strongly sugest buying a sound card instead of the onboard-sound, and getting a nice headphones with a mic, wich honestly I won't use that much

So I ended up with this sound card:

Creative Soundblaster Z

And I was looking at 2 options for the headphones:

Audio-Technica ATH-M50S

Creative Aurvana Live 2

I choose those models since I will be buying them from Amazon, since they ship them to Mexico, and I never had a problem with them

Just to be precise, I will mostly play FPS, MMORPG, and listen to some Rock music once in a while

Is my setup a "good" one? Or would you choose something different, my budget runs around $200 USD max $230 USD

Any help would be apreciated


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mog84kupo*
> 
> Hi!!
> 
> I'm new to the fourm, so....the best to everybody here from Mexico
> 
> I just build my first PC and as part of the finishing touches I wanted to get a headset, the Cooler Master Storm Sirus S w/control module to be precise
> 
> However, afeter doing some reseach online I found this page (along with many others) that strongly sugest buying a sound card instead of the onboard-sound, and getting a nice headphones with a mic, wich honestly I won't use that much
> 
> So I ended up with this sound card:
> 
> Creative Soundblaster Z
> 
> And I was looking at 2 options for the headphones:
> 
> Audio-Technica ATH-M50S
> 
> Creative Aurvana Live 2
> 
> I choose those models since I will be buying them from Amazon, since they ship them to Mexico, and I never had a problem with them
> 
> Just to be precise, I will mostly play FPS, MMORPG, and listen to some Rock music once in a while
> 
> Is my setup a "good" one? Or would you choose something different, my budget runs around $200 USD max $230 USD
> 
> Any help would be apreciated


For gaming, I would choose something else other than the M50. I don't know about the CAL2, but I know the CAL's are great entry headphones and cost only $80 or less typically. For that price range, I would honestly get a Q701 instead since you are mostly using it for gaming. Some would consider it bass anemic though and I honestly don't remember how they sound for rock.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hi guys!

So I'm going to order from here.

Question is, do they include necessary cables and adapters with the package, or do I need to order them separately from one of the links at the bottom of the page?

Thank you!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> So I'm going to order from here.
> 
> Question is, do they include necessary cables and adapters with the package, or do I need to order them separately from one of the links at the bottom of the page?
> 
> Thank you!


Hope this helps!



Source

UPDATE

I realized that I was being an idiot. You are probably more interested to know what you need to buy right? Well first make sure to pick the right adapter upon order and before checkout. Since you are getting the combo, you don't need any more additional cables. Just plug usb cable into amp and computer and then the headphones into the front. You may need an adapter depending on the connector size of your headphone cable. Don't try to put batteries in it, the ODAC takes the place of the batteries in the combo design if I recall correctly. Oh yeah... while it most likely does not need to be stated, plug it into the surge protector via purchased ac adapter.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> So I'm going to order from here.
> 
> Question is, do they include necessary cables and adapters with the package, or do I need to order them separately from one of the links at the bottom of the page?
> 
> Thank you!


You will need to purchase the AC adapter seperately and you will need a 6.3mm jack adapter to a 3.5mm jack. I personally recommend the Grado mini jack adapter or the Sennheiser Hd650 1/4 to 1/8 jack adapter.

http://www.amazon.com/Grado-Mini-Adaptor-Cable-Inch/dp/B001DK1ZVO
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Adapter-Female-6-3mm-3-5mm/dp/B008JGWY2Y

@Mog84kupo:

With that budget why not try from Mayflower electronics their Fostex t50rp orothodynamics modded v3 headphones. It uses planar magnetic technology which is significantly different than the dynamic driver designand it has been modded for comfort and for sound quality.


----------



## Belial

I got a question. I have the Z87X-UD3H, which is an ALC898 + DRV632 600 ohm headphone amp by TI. I hear the alc898 is pretty good, and then it's got this amp on it so it can drive the high impedance headphones I imagine.

Would a sound card or something sound better than this? I really didn't see anything in the list that fit a budget of well under $100, and there's no Fiio's or E11s and stuff mentioned that i hear a lot about on head-fi (dont ask me, i dont know them well). Everything I see on the list is always super expensive, there's a few soundcards but they dont seem like they'd be an upgrade over my 600 ohm integrated headphone amp.

Thanks. I'd be interested in improving my sound if it only cost like $20-50 for a sound card... or dac, or whatever. I know you say integrated sound is bad but i dont know if that's still true since you made that claim like 3 years ago and a lot has improved on integrated sound since then. Would I even notice a difference from my sound set-up to a $30 card, or $100-200 DAC/AMP set-up?

And I am SO confused on dacs/amps. You don't really explain them. What I got from your guide was 'dac's make things sound better, but sometimes dac's dont have amps and sometimes they do, but even if they do, you might not be able to plug your headphones into them, in which case you need an amp (seriously, you can't just mod the line in? isn't a headphone line just 2 wires anyways?).

I mean if I bought like the dt990 250ohm pro, i could drive them off my mobo system, but I can't drive them off those sound cards. But you have no sub-$100 dac/amp set-up.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> UPDATE
> 
> I realized that I was being an idiot. You are probably more interested to know what you need to buy right? Well first make sure to pick the right adapter upon order and before checkout. Since you are getting the combo, you don't need any more additional cables. Just plug usb cable into amp and computer and then the headphones into the front. You may need an adapter depending on the connector size of your headphone cable. Don't try to put batteries in it, the ODAC takes the place of the batteries in the combo design if I recall correctly. Oh yeah... while it most likely does not need to be stated, plug it into the surge protector via purchased ac adapter.


I am confused. I didn't find any option to select an adapter before checkout.

What is a surge protector? And since the AC adapter doesn't come with the combo, which one should I get?

Thank you!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> You will need to purchase the AC adapter seperately and you will need a 6.3mm jack adapter to a 3.5mm jack. I personally recommend the Grado mini jack adapter or the Sennheiser Hd650 1/4 to 1/8 jack adapter.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Grado-Mini-Adaptor-Cable-Inch/dp/B001DK1ZVO
> http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Adapter-Female-6-3mm-3-5mm/dp/B008JGWY2Y


Can you please tell me which AC adapter to get? There are two (12VAC and 15VAC) adapters listed on the JDSLabs site. Which one should I get?

*To the both of you*: As a total newbie to audio equipment, I would like to request you to list and link _every_ _single_ component that is required to make the O2+ODAC combo function perfectly with the DT990 Pro.

So far, the list looks like this: i)O2+ODAC combo ii)DT990 Pro iii)6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter(brand to be decided) iv)AC adapter(brand to be decided)

I ask this favor of you because I was about to order without the necessary cables and adapters which would have been a disaster. And I really want to avoid such situations.

Many a thanks to the both of you!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I am confused. I didn't find any option to select an adapter before checkout.
> 
> What is a surge protector? And since the AC adapter doesn't come with the combo, which one should I get?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please tell me which AC adapter to get? There are two (12VAC and 15VAC) adapters listed on the JDSLabs site. Which one should I get?
> 
> *To the both of you*: As a total newbie to audio equipment, I would like to request you to list and link _every_ _single_ component that is required to make the O2+ODAC combo function perfectly with the DT990 Pro.
> 
> So far, the list looks like this: i)O2+ODAC combo ii)DT990 Pro iii)6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter(brand to be decided) iv)AC adapter(brand to be decided)
> 
> I ask this favor of you because I was about to order without the necessary cables and adapters which would have been a disaster. And I really want to avoid such situations.
> 
> Many a thanks to the both of you!


- When you add the O2+ODAC into your cart, go to your cart and scroll down
- Pick Triad AC adapter if you live in the US, otherwise just google what you should use




As far as what you need to buy, you don't need to buy anything. Your DT770 Pro comes with a 3.5 mm jack and a screw on quarter inch adapter. Just screw off the adapter an plug it into the O2 amp on the front.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> - When you add the O2+ODAC into your cart, go to your cart and scroll down
> - Pick Triad AC adapter if you live in the US, otherwise just google what you should use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as what you need to buy, you don't need to buy anything. Your DT770 Pro comes with a 3.5 mm jack and a screw on quarter inch adapter. Just screw off the adapter an plug it into the O2 amp on the front.


From the looks of the adapters, I'm going to need the Triad.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> From the looks of the adapters, I'm going to need the Triad.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


NP!


----------



## mikeaj

You also need a USB A to mini B cable. You also need a computer that can act as USB host and working mains electricity.









By the way, JDS Labs's support is pretty good. You can just e-mail them and they'd know what goes in the packages. That said, the website claims the USB cable is included, and you may well have one or more of those already.

You need the Triad adapter if on ~115V power. G.E.Z. adapter if on ~230V power. These are both just dumb transformers inside: AC/AC adapters, so you really don't want the wrong one.

edit: by the way, on an unrelated sad side note, my Sansa Clip+'s power button just got physically stuck. Urk. Okay, not that sad-they were $20 refurb, so what can you say? Mostly I blame most decent smartphones these days not having microSD card slots in the first place.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> by the way, on an unrelated sad side note, my Sansa Clip+'s power button just got physically stuck. Urk. Okay, not that sad-they were $20 refurb, so what can you say? Mostly I blame most decent smartphones these days not having microSD card slots in the first place.


Is it broken because the click thing broke or because there is dust/gunk in there?


----------



## wevsspot

Just wanted to say thanks for updating the info to include discrete PCI / PCIe sound cards like the Creative Soundblaster Z and the inclusion of the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 headsets.

I agree that it's almost impossible to beat the quality and performance of the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD, but with the SB Zs selling for as low as $59 it's hard to argue the price to performance ratio.

I just finished a personal comparison between my old faithful HD and a new Z series card, and for the price difference I came away pretty impressed.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> by the way, on an unrelated sad side note, my Sansa Clip+'s power button just got physically stuck. Urk. Okay, not that sad-they were $20 refurb, so what can you say? Mostly I blame most decent smartphones these days not having microSD card slots in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it broken because the click thing broke or because there is dust/gunk in there?
Click to expand...

Hm, on second inspection it looks like the click thing. When held upside-down the button moves outwards a tad.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Hm, on second inspection it looks like the click thing. When held upside-down the button moves outwards a tad.


Plaster or glue might be able to fix that.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> I got a question. I have the Z87X-UD3H, which is an ALC898 + DRV632 600 ohm headphone amp by TI. I hear the alc898 is pretty good, and then it's got this amp on it so it can drive the high impedance headphones I imagine.
> 
> Would a sound card or something sound better than this? I really didn't see anything in the list that fit a budget of well under $100, and there's no Fiio's or E11s and stuff mentioned that i hear a lot about on head-fi (dont ask me, i dont know them well). Everything I see on the list is always super expensive, there's a few soundcards but they dont seem like they'd be an upgrade over my 600 ohm integrated headphone amp.
> 
> Thanks. I'd be interested in improving my sound if it only cost like $20-50 for a sound card... or dac, or whatever. I know you say integrated sound is bad but i dont know if that's still true since you made that claim like 3 years ago and a lot has improved on integrated sound since then. Would I even notice a difference from my sound set-up to a $30 card, or $100-200 DAC/AMP set-up?
> 
> And I am SO confused on dacs/amps. You don't really explain them. What I got from your guide was 'dac's make things sound better, but sometimes dac's dont have amps and sometimes they do, but even if they do, you might not be able to plug your headphones into them, in which case you need an amp (seriously, you can't just mod the line in? isn't a headphone line just 2 wires anyways?).
> 
> I mean if I bought like the dt990 250ohm pro, i could drive them off my mobo system, but I can't drive them off those sound cards. But you have no sub-$100 dac/amp set-up.


Just because the DRV632 chip is "600-Ω Output Load Compliant" doesn't mean it can drive 600 ohm headphones properly.

Whether or not you need a new sound card or DAC/amp or whether you'll even notice a difference depends on what you're listening to them with. You're probably not going to notice a difference between onboard and a $100 DAC/amp if you're using some $50 headset from Walmart, unless your onboard is super noisy/staticy.

DACs convert 1s and 0s into an electrical signal that can be used to create sound. Amps amplify that signal to be strong enough so that it can move your headphone's drivers fast/powerfully/accurately enough to reproduce the sound. That's a very, very basic layman's summary.

Your onboard sound would not adequately power the DT990 250ohms. You might get enough volume, but the sound will not be reproduced properly.

For a sub-$100 DAC/amp, Fiio's offerings are good, the Asus Xonar DX is good.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I am confused. I didn't find any option to select an adapter before checkout.
> 
> What is a surge protector? And since the AC adapter doesn't come with the combo, which one should I get?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please tell me which AC adapter to get? There are two (12VAC and 15VAC) adapters listed on the JDSLabs site. Which one should I get?
> 
> *To the both of you*: As a total newbie to audio equipment, I would like to request you to list and link _every_ _single_ component that is required to make the O2+ODAC combo function perfectly with the DT990 Pro.
> 
> So far, the list looks like this: i)O2+ODAC combo ii)DT990 Pro iii)6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter(brand to be decided) iv)AC adapter(brand to be decided)
> 
> I ask this favor of you because I was about to order without the necessary cables and adapters which would have been a disaster. And I really want to avoid such situations.
> 
> Many a thanks to the both of you!


You would need the following:

O2+ODAC (in either white/black finish)
6.3 (1/4" to 1/8") to 3.5mm adapter
G.E.Z. 15VAC ADAPTER FOR O2 (Type C connector for Bangladesh - EU Plug: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/73/g-e-z-15vac-adapter-for-o2/)


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> You would need the following:
> 
> O2+ODAC (in either white/black finish)
> 6.3 (1/4" to 1/8") to 3.5mm adapter
> G.E.Z. 15VAC ADAPTER FOR O2 (Type C connector for Bangladesh - EU Plug: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/73/g-e-z-15vac-adapter-for-o2/)


Why does he need a quarter inch to 3.5mm adapter?


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Why does he need a quarter inch to 3.5mm adapter?


Because the O2+ODAC uses a 1/8" Jack and not a 1/4" jack that translates to a 6.3 to 3.5mm adapter. Take a look at the specifications and at this picture:

http://www.jdslabs.com/images/O2/O2_Rendered.png
http://codeandlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pics-3.jpg


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> Because the O2+ODAC uses a 1/8" Jack and not a 1/4" jack that translates to a 6.3 to 3.5mm adapter. Take a look at the specifications and at this picture:
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/images/O2/O2_Rendered.png
> http://codeandlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pics-3.jpg


I understand that, but the DT990 has a native 3.5" connector I thought with a quarter inch screw on adapter.

UPDATE
I have verified this on Beyer's website:

"Cable & plug Coiled connecting cable with mini-jack plug (3.5 mm) & ¼" adapter (6.35 mm)"


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I understand that, but the DT990 has a native 3.5" connector I thought with a quarter inch screw on adapter.
> 
> UPDATE
> I have verified this on Beyer's website:
> 
> "Cable & plug Coiled connecting cable with mini-jack plug (3.5 mm) & ¼" adapter (6.35 mm)"


OK so it does seem to include a 1/4" adapter. However that being said if he uses other headphones (which he probably will sometime or later) he will need a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter as certain headphones are terminated as 1/4" only.


----------



## Simca

My ODAC/O2 takes 1/4".


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> My ODAC/O2 takes 1/4".


But JDS Labs don't I believe. There are some companies that offer more custom O2 designs.


----------



## Simca

w/e I don't care. I only care about MY ODAC/O2.


----------



## 45nm

The reference design is 1/8" Jack not a 1/4". Some custom combo units have the 1/4" jack but not by JDS Labs or Mayflower Electronics.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Head 'n' Hifi (in europe) offers many different O2 designs, like the desktop version which also has RCA output.
Not to mention the desktop version of O2+ODAC.

And if you didn't notice, the front panel is cleaned up from input connectors.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Head 'n' Hifi (in europe) offers many different O2 designs, like the desktop version which also has RCA output.
> Not to mention the desktop version of O2+ODAC.
> 
> And if you didn't notice, the front panel is cleaned up from input connectors.


I wonder if any of the mods change anything in the measurements?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> From the looks of the adapters, I'm going to need the Triad.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


Literally just chiming in here, for "ahnafakeef" here.
You guys are utterly confusing him.

As far as I'm concerned the ODAC he is GOING TO BUY comes with a 3.5mm input and OUTPUT.

His BEYERS he is ALSO going to buy come with a 3.5mm terminated jack WITH a 6.3mm 1/4" ADAPTER.

From my understanding from the links he sent me via PM (as we've been talking on there) - he has NO NEED to buy any adapter of any sort.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for heavens sake, stop confusing him.

I'm out.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

The beyer DT990s 100% come with a 1/4" adapter. I have a pair myself


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> The beyer DT990s 100% come with a 1/4" adapter. I have a pair myself


Just to avoid confusion brother:
terminated: 3.5mm
Adapter included: 1/4"

Correctomundo?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Just to avoid confusion brother:
> terminated: 3.5mm
> Adapter included: 1/4"
> 
> Correctomundo?


Correct.


----------



## Tiihokatti

To make it even more clear:


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> To make it even more clear:


Haha yeah doesn't get clearer than that!


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Literally just chiming in here, for "ahnafakeef" here.
> You guys are utterly confusing him.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned the ODAC he is GOING TO BUY comes with a 3.5mm input and OUTPUT.
> 
> His BEYERS he is ALSO going to buy come with a 3.5mm terminated jack WITH a 6.3mm 1/4" ADAPTER.
> 
> From my understanding from the links he sent me via PM (as we've been talking on there) - he has NO NEED to buy any adapter of any sort.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but for heavens sake, stop confusing him.
> 
> I'm out.


The poster/member you quoted was talking about the power adapter not the audio cable/adapter. See here:

http://www.jdslabs.com/products/38/triad-12vac-power-adapter-for-o2/

"TRIAD 12VAC POWER ADAPTER FOR O2"
Quote:


> From the looks of the *adapters, I'm going to need the Triad*.
> 
> Thanks a lot! smile.gif


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Correct.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> To make it even more clear:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Haha yeah doesn't get clearer than that!


good good - confusion clear. My job is done.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Head 'n' Hifi (in europe) offers many different O2 designs, like the desktop version which also has RCA output.
> Not to mention the desktop version of O2+ODAC.
> 
> And if you didn't notice, the front panel is cleaned up from input connectors.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if any of the mods change anything in the measurements?
Click to expand...

Probably. Just not consequentially.

By the way, these aren't much of mods. Some have actually nontrivially modified the design or hacked on some extra electronics or so on. What's going on here is just taking the original PCB and rewiring some inputs and outputs to different jacks, which should have minimal impact. It's just some point-to-point wiring on the inside to whatever new jack isn't directly placed on the PCB.

If you laid out the PCB from scratch that could have significantly different performance.


----------



## phillyd

Until someone offers an O2+ODAC combo with a neutral color surrounding the connectors (not the ugly blue that is so common). Rear power and USB, rear un-amped RCA, in the US for sub-$300, I won't even consider buying an O2+ODAC


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Until someone offers an O2+ODAC combo with a neutral color surrounding the connectors (not the ugly blue that is so common). Rear power and USB, rear un-amped RCA, in the US for sub-$300, I won't even consider buying an O2+ODAC


http://www.headnhifi.com/amplifiers/desktop-headphone-amplifiers/O2-desktop-amplifier
http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/O2-ODAC-fully-modded

Doesn't quite fit your criteria, but just letting you know they are available with all the features you want.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Until someone offers an O2+ODAC combo with a neutral color surrounding the connectors (not the ugly blue that is so common). Rear power and USB, rear un-amped RCA, in the US for sub-$300, I won't even consider buying an O2+ODAC
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.headnhifi.com/amplifiers/desktop-headphone-amplifiers/O2-desktop-amplifier
> http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/O2-ODAC-fully-modded
> 
> Doesn't quite fit your criteria, but just letting you know they are available with all the features you want.
Click to expand...

The rear RCA is line-in. I'd like to be able to switch form speakers to headphones using the ODAC, and only use the O2 for headphones. It get's really close but that one thing kills it for me. My schiit modi+vali allows me to split the RCA out form the Modi and send it to my speakers and Vali. This means I can switch off my Vali and leave my headphones plugged in to use my speakers or turn of my speakers and turn on the vali to use headphones.


----------



## mikeaj

It's better to just have something that has an output toggle switch in that case.

By the way, the only reason the jacks are blue on the O2 is because this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kycon/STX-3120-5B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV53lyqBtMwLMaBhrqBrBZQo%3d

was slightly more expensive than this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kycon/STX-3120-5B-284C/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV0AWkf7th85oA%2fHIao4Bczg%3d

at the time of writing. I guess the price difference now is $0.39 per jack now. The blue ones aren't as popular maybe?

For what it's worth, the amp itself shouldn't be altering the signal much if used as a line output (consider the O2 an overkill preamp?), but if you don't want amp volume control applied to the output that you'd be sending another amp, then you're out of luck unless you split out the ODAC's output, which wouldn't be hard.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Until someone offers an O2+ODAC combo with a neutral color surrounding the connectors (not the ugly blue that is so common). Rear power and USB, rear un-amped RCA, in the US for sub-$300, I won't even consider buying an O2+ODAC


Colour doesn't matter it's the performance and the neutrality of the combo that is what makes it outstanding for the price. If you couple it with a WAU16-1000 AC adapter it can handle even the most power hungry headphones such as the Hifiman He-6. By default it comes bundled with the WAU12-200 AC adapter which is for typical or normal headphones/loads.

At the price point and the performance offered I even consider it to be better than the Schiit stack and for a good couple of reasons:

1. Smaller and more compact enclosure (less space taken up)
2. No need for extra RCA cables
3. Not as Static prone as the Schiit stack is.
4. Tests conducted using Blind listening have shown it to be equal if not comparable to >$1000 amp/dac combo's
5. Not prone to DC voltage spikes during off/on sequence (seen in Asgard before retrofitting with relay)
6. Open source design
7. Modability (just look at what head-n-hifi offers for customization)


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Until someone offers an O2+ODAC combo with a neutral color surrounding the connectors (not the ugly blue that is so common). Rear power and USB, rear un-amped RCA, in the US for sub-$300, I won't even consider buying an O2+ODAC
> 
> 
> 
> Colour doesn't matter it's the performance and the neutrality of the combo that is what makes it outstanding for the price. If you couple it with a WAU16-1000 AC adapter it can handle even the most power hungry headphones such as the Hifiman He-6. By default it comes bundled with the WAU12-200 AC adapter which is for typical or normal headphones/loads.
> 
> At the price point and the performance offered I even consider it to be better than the Schiit stack and for a good couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. Smaller and more compact enclosure (less space taken up)
> 2. No need for extra RCA cables
> 3. Not as Static prone as the Schiit stack is.
> 4. Tests conducted using Blind listening have shown it to be equal if not comparable to >$1000 amp/dac combo's
> 5. Not prone to DC voltage spikes during off/on sequence (seen in Asgard before retrofitting with relay)
> 6. Open source design
> 7. Modability (just look at what head-n-hifi offers for customization)
Click to expand...

And the point goes RIGHT over your head.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> You would need the following:
> 
> O2+ODAC (in either white/black finish)
> 6.3 (1/4" to 1/8") to 3.5mm adapter
> G.E.Z. 15VAC ADAPTER FOR O2 (Type C connector for Bangladesh - EU Plug: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/73/g-e-z-15vac-adapter-for-o2/)


I'm a little embarrassed by the fact that you know more than me about which connector would be better for my country.

As for the 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter, going by some of the latter posts, I assume I won't be needing one as long as I stick to DT990s?

Thank you!







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> OK so it does seem to include a 1/4" adapter. However that being said if he uses other headphones (which he probably will sometime or later) he will need a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter as certain headphones are terminated as 1/4" only.


If I do get another headphone in the future, I can order the adapter then.









Okay I really want to confirm the order ASAP since it will take about a month to ship. Could you please check the list below and confirm whether I'm all set and ready to order? Please make sure to mention if I haven't included any important component. Thank you very much!









1. http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/ (Silver Edition)
2. http://www.jdslabs.com/products/73/g-e-z-15vac-adapter-for-o2/ (Type C connector, EU plug)
3. http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Pro-250-Professional-Acoustically-Applications/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A304D686EJ3MRJ


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I'm a little embarrassed by the fact that you know more than me about which connector would be better for my country.
> 
> As for the 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter, going by some of the latter posts, I assume I won't be needing one as long as I stick to DT990s?


Yes the DT990 Pro terminates with a 3.5mm/1/8" jack but it has an adapter for 6.3/1/4".
Quote:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I do get another headphone in the future, I can order the adapter then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I really want to confirm the order ASAP since it will take about a month to ship. Could you please check the list below and confirm whether I'm all set and ready to order? Please make sure to mention if I haven't included any important component. Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/ (Silver Edition)
> 2. http://www.jdslabs.com/products/73/g-e-z-15vac-adapter-for-o2/ (Type C connector, EU plug)
> 3. http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Pro-250-Professional-Acoustically-Applications/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A304D686EJ3MRJ


It appears actually Bangladesh accepts three different connectors as well in addition to the EU Plug. It accepts the UK/EU and the Indian plug:

http://www.adaptelec.com/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&products_id=330



You will have to see which one of those is your socket and order either the UK/EU plug. JDS Labs only offers the GEZ 15v AC adapter in the following plugs: EU/UK/AUS.

As for the list it appears to be correct. I actually ordered the same version (Silver/Black) as I feel aesthetically it would look better in my environment as well. Keep in mind one thing though that the USB cable is 3ft which is about 1m long. If it is not long enough you would need to order perhaps a 6ft/10ft ferrite or non-ferrite mini-usb from monoprice. The plug itself is 6ft which shouldn't cause any issues with length but you can always order a power extension cable from monoprice as well.


----------



## teamrushpntball

Would greatly appreciate if I could get some help in my thread, hoping to not derail this one too much: http://www.overclock.net/t/1465992/400-budget-what-should-i-get-to-make-my-ears-happy/0_50


----------



## wolfxing

cool, seems like this post has just been revised. It's totally different from couple weeks ago when I recommend in-ear monitors for my bro.
Thank you so much, simca!

well.. the problem is that this post makes wanna get somthing new for myself...
Currently I am using an Asus Xonar DG, and a AKG GSH-1 which was on the list but unfotuntely not this time. This headphone has been serving me around two years... my head is HUGE so it's actually not comfortable at all.
I am thinking about getting an AKG Q701+Schiit Magni which total is about $300. This # sounds a little bit crazy to me (and totally crazy to my girlfriend)... so I need some advises...
After experienced the dedicated profesional sound system in my cousin's new Porsche Cayenne, I want something performaces better than what I have now.
I dont want to upgrade my sound card in short term b/c I just got it for couple weeks and i'm enjoying the upgraded sound quality it provides.
My budget would be $100~$300... should be more expensive than the GSH-1 I have (that makes me feel better with that purchase...)
I am on the musical side more, I dont care much about gaming performace that much even though I play BF4 and Diablo 3 a lot...
I am new to this area, so I'm not sure Q701 would be the best shot for the sound card I have now... please advise

I think my question could summerized as follow: within the budget range, what can ultilize my sound card and the headphone itself the most?

P.S. I really like the appearance of Q701, is it okay to start w/o amp, just push it w/ my sound card, and get amp when I have the spare money? How much I could lost the performance, comparing start point is my porr GHS-1? or simply just forget about running Q701 on the DG?

And is it okay to buy a used headphone? I'm a little bit concern about if ppl were abusing it...


----------



## iamwardicus

I like the thread "remodel". Clean and an easy read.

For "Mid-Fi" speakers - I'd like to chime in with another recommendation. Chane ARX A1 speakers are $300 per pair. 5.25" driver with a ribbon tweeter. I have the A2 model which is $450 per pair but for something a little cheaper than the Polks I believe it to be a great value.


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> cool, seems like this post has just been revised. It's totally different from couple weeks ago when I recommend in-ear monitors for my bro.
> Thank you so much, simca!
> 
> well.. the problem is that this post makes wanna get somthing new for myself...
> Currently I am using an Asus Xonar DG, and a AKG GSH-1 which was on the list but unfotuntely not this time. This headphone has been serving me around two years... my head is HUGE so it's actually not comfortable at all.
> I am thinking about getting an AKG Q701+Schiit Magni which total is about $300. This # sounds a little bit crazy to me (and totally crazy to my girlfriend)... so I need some advises...
> After experienced the dedicated profesional sound system in my cousin's new Porsche Cayenne, I want something performaces better than what I have now.
> I dont want to upgrade my sound card in short term b/c I just got it for couple weeks and i'm enjoying the upgraded sound quality it provides.
> My budget would be $100~$300... should be more expensive than the GSH-1 I have (that makes me feel better with that purchase...)
> I am on the musical side more, I dont care much about gaming performace that much even though I play BF4 and Diablo 3 a lot...
> I am new to this area, so I'm not sure Q701 would be the best shot for the sound card I have now... please advise
> 
> I think my question could summerized as follow: within the budget range, what can ultilize my sound card and the headphone itself the most?
> 
> P.S. I really like the appearance of Q701, is it okay to start w/o amp, just push it w/ my sound card, and get amp when I have the spare money? How much I could lost the performance, comparing start point is my porr GHS-1? or simply just forget about running Q701 on the DG?


The Q701s are definitely not for you if gaming is not that important. You should really use a dedicated amp if you choose a headphone that requires amplification. That said, what music are you into? I take it since you loved your brother/friends Porsche Cayenne system you really enjoyed a warm sound, lots of bass? Shouldn't be too hard to select a headphone that delivers in many ways above the GHS-1s.


----------



## wolfxing

Thx for the reply!
yeah, I think I can say warm, but might not bass,
I am not a bass person but I can enjoy bass. I would say no if the headphone cannot push bass while the song is "bassy" (dark horse by KP maybe? I think my T3130 does an enough job with 1/4 bass turned on .) . I play guitar, so that I believe I am more into lighter ones...
I'm new to this area and I cannot say any "term" which you guys usually describe the sound. Like when you say no/less bass, I don't know how "no or less" it is...
I know I am newbie so I seems like picky... or don't know what I really want... I admit...
I want a clear, realistic feeling while listen to music. I describe the sound in the Cayenne as I can clearly feel the different levels. My music are all CDs and mp3 that never below 320kbps quality, they should work...
Thanks so much!


----------



## yezz12

Quick question:

How much of an improvement would the Xonar DX over the Xonar DG be?

I've just received Edifier R1600T speakers, very high quality for their price.
If the Xonar DX is a big upgrade, then i will buy one no doubt.


----------



## Simca

Not one probably worth investing in. You either go straight to the DX off onboard, or you go external DAC from DG.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> Thx for the reply!
> yeah, I think I can say warm, but might not bass,
> I am not a bass person but I can enjoy bass. I would say no if the headphone cannot push bass while the song is "bassy" (dark horse by KP maybe? I think my T3130 does an enough job with 1/4 bass turned on .) . I play guitar, so that I believe I am more into lighter ones...
> I'm new to this area and I cannot say any "term" which you guys usually describe the sound. Like when you say no/less bass, I don't know how "no or less" it is...
> I know I am newbie so I seems like picky... or don't know what I really want... I admit...
> I want a clear, realistic feeling while listen to music. I describe the sound in the Cayenne as I can clearly feel the different levels. My music are all CDs and mp3 that never below 320kbps quality, they should work...
> Thanks so much!
> 
> Again, why types of music do you listen to? Understood you don't seek bass necessarily.


----------



## wolfxing

hm~~ I'm not a native English speaker.. let's put is this way. i'm a super fan of this singer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YahODRQffA
other than that, whatever on the radio I think is good, like One republic, the passenger, taylor, Katty, emenem, everything etc...


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> Thx for the reply!
> yeah, I think I can say warm, but might not bass,
> I am not a bass person but I can enjoy bass. I would say no if the headphone cannot push bass while the song is "bassy" (dark horse by KP maybe? I think my T3130 does an enough job with 1/4 bass turned on .) . I play guitar, so that I believe I am more into lighter ones...
> I'm new to this area and I cannot say any "term" which you guys usually describe the sound. Like when you say no/less bass, I don't know how "no or less" it is...
> I know I am newbie so I seems like picky... or don't know what I really want... I admit...
> I want a clear, realistic feeling while listen to music. I describe the sound in the Cayenne as I can clearly feel the different levels. My music are all CDs and mp3 that never below 320kbps quality, they should work...
> Thanks so much!


- Budget? How much you have to spend
- Buying options? Where can you buy from in your country


----------



## wolfxing

I am in United States
Thx for the reply
My budget is $300


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> I am in United States
> Thx for the reply
> My budget is $300


- Do you have a sound card or amp?
- Is sound isolation important?


----------



## Simca

In my opinion, you should buy a K550 with an amp, modi on the cheap works. Those work great with J-pop and Pop in general.


----------



## wolfxing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> - Do you have a sound card or amp?
> - Is sound isolation important?


I have a xonar dg, the isolation isn't important, but preferred (my girlfriend wants it... My computer locates in my bedroom...)
Thx


----------



## wolfxing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> In my opinion, you should buy a K550 with an amp, modi on the cheap works. Those work great with J-pop and Pop in general.


Thank you very much! The k550 looks nice. Do u mean the schiit modi amp?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> Thank you very much! The k550 looks nice. Do u mean the schiit modi amp?


The Modi is only a DAC, not an amp


----------



## Simca

Nah, I actually meant the magni amp, sorry for the confusion.


----------



## wolfxing

gotcha! order placed
thx so much!


----------



## kokpa

Hi,

1. Buget max : 160eur, less happier I will be








2. Little of everything
3. Watching movies, series, surfing the net, little bit of youtbube, little of gaming(fps,rps)
4. I just have a build in sound card from the Asus maximus gene-z iv
5. I would prefer open or half-open
6. Prefer buying in slovenia

I was looking at dt990 pro 250ohm, but guy in the shop told me that it would be to much for me(just onboard sound card), he advised me to go with dt440 or regular dt990. Now I'm using logitech x-530 speakers, but I would like to up my game. By now I have tried steelseries 7h cans, DON'T LIKE, sound is so bad if I'm compering to x530. I think I can get dt 990 pro 250ohm for 160eur here but if my onboard card would drive it, what would you recommend to update next(next month or soo). I would also like that I could connect it to the phone.

Thanks! smile.gif

Anything else you need please ask.


----------



## hatrix216

Ok. Someone recommend a good audio interface for music production/studio use. I'd like to see some more opinions. Budget... $300 at most. I'm looking for SQ obviously.

Can be rackmount, but doesn't have to be. I do NOT need a headphone amp. This is for my studio monitors.

I run two Mackie MR5Mkiis along with a Sundown Audio E8v3 subwoofer. The interface doesn't necessarrily need 4 channels, since I have my Behringer MX 2642A mixing console to take care of that.


----------



## kullmar

Hello,

I'm looking for a headset (or headphone+mic combination) in the sub 100€ range. I only need them for gaming, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive specifically. The problem with my current headset (Creative Fatal1ty), is that it is impossible to tell the direction of the sound. I hear footsteps fine but I always have to guess from where the enemy is coming, which is really game breaking. So the most important feature of the headphones is that I can be able to distuingish the direction of the sound. Does this mean I need a 5.1 or 7.1 headphone?
I won't be using them for anything else so the sound quality doesn't have to be that great; i.e. I'd rather save some money than use all of my budget. I've been looking at the Superlux HD668B, which I could get for about 30€. How are they in comparison to the much more costly Steelseries Siberia v2? I'm only asking this because they seem to be very popular in the gaming scene.

Thanks in advance


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kullmar*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a headset (or headphone+mic combination) in the sub 100€ range. I only need them for gaming, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive specifically. The problem with my current headset (Creative Fatal1ty), is that it is impossible to tell the direction of the sound. I hear footsteps fine but I always have to guess from where the enemy is coming, which is really game breaking. So the most important feature of the headphones is that I can be able to distuingish the direction of the sound. Does this mean I need a 5.1 or 7.1 headphone?
> I won't be using them for anything else so the sound quality doesn't have to be that great; i.e. I'd rather save some money than use all of my budget. I've been looking at the Superlux HD668B, which I could get for about 30€. How are they in comparison to the much more costly Steelseries Siberia v2? I'm only asking this because they seem to be very popular in the gaming scene.
> 
> Thanks in advance


You'd be best off with a decent stereo headphone, plus a clip on mic. I'd recommend Creative Aurana Live headphones with a Zalman clip-on mic.


----------



## kullmar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> You'd be best off with a decent stereo headphone, plus a clip on mic. I'd recommend Creative Aurana Live headphones with a Zalman clip-on mic.


Do you think they're worth the 35€ over the Superlux HD668B's? One thing I forgot to mention in my post is that they should be comfortable as well because I often use headphones for 5 hours straight. So if the Creative headphones are a lot more comfortable then I will probably go with them. Also, is it worth investing in a sound card? I'm using my onboard Realtek sound card at the moment (I have a Asrock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 mobo). I will most likely buy 5.1 speakers at some point, so if it will improve the sound quality from my headphones considerably I could consider getting one.

EDIT:
I stumbled upon this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1300439/new-headphones-creative-aurvana-live
Simca recommended the Samson RH600, which are more gaming oriented. I could get them for 20€, compared to the 65€ for the Creative. What do you think?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kullmar*
> 
> Do you think they're worth the 35€ over the Superlux HD668B's? One thing I forgot to mention in my post is that they should be comfortable as well because I often use headphones for 5 hours straight. So if the Creative headphones are a lot more comfortable then I will probably go with them. Also, is it worth investing in a sound card? I'm using my onboard Realtek sound card at the moment (I have a Asrock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 mobo). I will most likely buy 5.1 speakers at some point, so if it will improve the sound quality from my headphones considerably I could consider getting one.


My recommendation would be Superlux HD330+DT770 velour pads paired with Xonar DG(X).
Headphones+velour can be found from thomann.de
But the coiled cable can be a minus depending on your PC setup/location.

The DG has Dolby Headphones for surround sound if you feel that the games own binaural simulation is not enough. Personally I preferred Borderlands2 with Dolby over vanilla (even with the reverb).

And as for the mic, your fatal1ty mic is perfect pair for the HD330: http://m.imgur.com/gallery/bKU4H


----------



## kullmar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> My recommendation would be Superlux HD330+DT770 velour pads paired with Xonar DG(X).
> Headphones+velour can be found from thomann.de
> But the coiled cable can be a minus depending on your PC setup/location.
> 
> The DG has Dolby Headphones for surround sound if you feel that the games own binaural simulation is not enough. Personally I preferred Borderlands2 with Dolby over vanilla (even with the reverb).
> 
> And as for the mic, your fatal1ty mic is perfect pair for the HD330: http://m.imgur.com/gallery/bKU4H


Thanks for your reply. Could you motivate a bit why you would choose the HD330 over the HD668? they cost just about the same on thomann. And how are they compared to the CAL?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kullmar*
> 
> Thanks for your reply. Could you motivate a bit why you would choose the HD330 over the HD668? they cost just about the same on thomann. And how are they compared to the CAL?


The Beyerdynamics DT-line is generally very comfortable, and the hd330 design is ripped off from the DT770 (they don't sound like the Beyers though).

The HD330 is also pretty bass heavy (measurements). Also the DT770 velours make the 600Hz-1500Hz take a hit (moar measurements), but you can compensate with EQ.
AKG240 pleather pads (10€/pair) are also a good option as they don't change the sound as much.


----------



## kullmar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> The Beyerdynamics DT-line is generally very comfortable, and the hd330 design is ripped off from the DT770 (they don't sound like the Beyers though).
> 
> The HD330 is also pretty bass heavy (measurements). Also the DT770 velours make the 600Hz-1500Hz take a hit (moar measurements), but you can compensate with EQ.
> AKG240 pleather pads (10€/pair) are also a good option as they don't change the sound as much.


Will the velour pads fit the HD668 too? I'm not a big fan of the coiled cable that the 330 has.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kullmar*
> 
> Will the velour pads fit the HD668 too? I'm not a big fan of the coiled cable that the 330 has.


AKG K-240 velours for the HD668B.


----------



## kullmar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> AKG K-240 velours for the HD668B.


Thanks a ton


----------



## kullmar

Ok, after doing some extensive research I've come down to buying the HD668B/SR850+velour pads OR the CAL. The difference in price is only 6 euros, but the pads are out of stock at thomann. Which one do you think suits my needs better, if the most important thing to me besides comfortability is surround virtualization? I always have such a trouble making a decision









Edit:
I went for the SR850+AKG K-240 velours in the end, will have to wait to the end of next week 'til I get to try them out


----------



## Kalurak

Hi,

first of all thanks Simca for this incredibly helpful thread! Thanks to it, what started out as 'I would like some smaller PC speakers" has now mutated into my first foray into the wonderful world of proper audio equipment.

From the top...
I currently use an old Sony stereo for PC speakers. It is gigantic. It also has a CD changer and 2 tape decks. I wanted something smaller, but good, for my desk. This desire slowly morphed into wanting something decent. So I settled on the Swans M10s, which promptly sold out everywhere the next day, never to be seen again. You will be missed.

As I was now set upon getting something vaguely resembling good quality, I started looking again, and found this thread. Therefor, I shall receive a Schiit Modi tomorrow, replacing my laptop's onboard sound card and, presumably, improving my listening experience by several magnitudes.

For speakers, the M-Audio AV40s caught my eye. I'm not sure how I would benefit from an external amp over active speakers, except in one regard. Since the IRS owes me a bunch of money from last year's taxes, I would like to have the option of adding a subwoofer later. I have been having real trouble finding subwoofers with line level outputs, which clueless me assumes I would need to introduce a subwoofer into my little audio system. Most in the price range I would consider viable for my as yet untrained ears seem to prefer speaker level outs, including, as far as I can tell, the ones listed here.

Options I have found are
M-Audio's own SBX 10 - at $450 this is very much above the price point I was hoping for. It's not impossible, but something more in the $100-250 range would be much preferred.
An RCA splitter or two, between the Modi and the speakers and subwoofer, sending the line signal both ways. From what I understand, this would lower the line level by half, and also defeat the point of having a crossover in the subwoofer in the first place, meaning I get bass from the speakers and the woofer.
A speaker-to-line-level converter - I'd rather spend the extra money on sound quality.

I'm mostly looking to be pointed into the right direction for subwoofers for this setup, but the reason I'm writing this essay is that I have never dealt with anything audio related before, and I'm about 95% certain at least some of my reasoning is flawed. Any alternatives, advice, or pointing out of incompetence on my part would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Instant edit:
For reference, I am currently in the US. My budget is somewhat flexible up to the $500 range including speakers (the AV40s have not been ordered yet), but a little lower would be preferable. My music tastes vary wildly, and include lots of rock and metal as well as some electronic music and probably a little of most other genres you can think of. Gaming as well, although the only game where sound matters that I currently play is Rocksmith.


----------



## DrGroove

Using an RCA splitter shouldn't introduce any problems at all. You also don't have to rely on the subwoofer to act as a crossover for the speakers. There are external electronic crossovers that you can buy, or even in-line crossovers that would be placed before the speaker amp.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EZV3T8
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006N41KG

Unless you are desperate for desk space, there's no reason to stick to active speakers either. There are plenty of choices between Micca's at $80 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7H8GG2) to other options around $150-200. For a near field setup, something as cheap as a lepai or topping amp would be fine.

For reasonably priced subs I tend to recommend the BIC F12 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015A8Y5M) or lava subs http://www.lavasubs.com/home-theater-subwoofers.html

You can easily put together a solid 2.1 system for under $400, although if you intend to play high volumes or sit at home theater distance from the speakers, then you should get a more powerful amp than the two I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Kalurak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Using an RCA splitter shouldn't introduce any problems at all. You also don't have to rely on the subwoofer to act as a crossover for the speakers. There are external electronic crossovers that you can buy, or even in-line crossovers that would be placed before the speaker amp.
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EZV3T8
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006N41KG
> 
> Unless you are desperate for desk space, there's no reason to stick to active speakers either. There are plenty of choices between Micca's at $80 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7H8GG2) to other options around $150-200. For a near field setup, something as cheap as a lepai or topping amp would be fine.
> 
> For reasonably priced subs I tend to recommend the BIC F12 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015A8Y5M) or lava subs http://www.lavasubs.com/home-theater-subwoofers.html
> 
> You can easily put together a solid 2.1 system for under $400, although if you intend to play high volumes or sit at home theater distance from the speakers, then you should get a more powerful amp than the two I mentioned earlier.


Thanks, I'll definitely go have a look at an amp+passive system again. That would certainly give me more flexibility for future upgrades. Apart from the ones you mentioned, where would be a good starting point to learn about amps, maybe get some additional options that come highly recommended? Maybe something like this thread, except I only saw headphone amps.

If I ended up wanting to go with active speakers, how difficult would it be to find a decent subwoofer with line level outputs? The ones you mentioned seem to have speaker level outs as far as I can tell. The external crossover seems like a good option as well, though the devices are starting to pile up on my desk already.

Thanks again!


----------



## Sungbung

Thanks for the great guide, Simca!

I'm currently using Asus Xonar DG along with Superlux 668B. This combo sounds great!
However, the head clamping is wayyyyy too strong. It gets ridiculously worse at night when I'm wearing glasses instead of contacts.

Are there any headphones you guys can recommend me with ~$120-150 budget? And would it be worth the upgrade with this budget? If not, how much more should I spend for it to be worth it? I can potentially spend up to $300 but not sure how much improvement i'll get in terms of sound quality.

I'm looking for an upgrade in sound > comfort > build quality (as long as they won't break in a year or two with regular use).
I am a heavy gamer but I listen to music most of the time, so best sounding headphones for music would be preferred.

I'm currently interested but unsure about:

-Audio-Technica ATH-M50 (missed a deal for $80 on slickdeals last week







)
-Sennheiser 558
-CAL 2

Thanks for the help


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalurak*
> 
> Thanks, I'll definitely go have a look at an amp+passive system again. That would certainly give me more flexibility for future upgrades. Apart from the ones you mentioned, where would be a good starting point to learn about amps, maybe get some additional options that come highly recommended? Maybe something like this thread, except I only saw headphone amps.
> 
> If I ended up wanting to go with active speakers, how difficult would it be to find a decent subwoofer with line level outputs? The ones you mentioned seem to have speaker level outs as far as I can tell. The external crossover seems like a good option as well, though the devices are starting to pile up on my desk already.
> 
> Thanks again!


Other amp options would be used home theater receivers, although those take up even more space, or something like this http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/a100

As far as I know, subs with line outputs are going to be professional gear intended for use with active studio monitors. To be honest, having a crossover isn't totally necessary. If you buy speakers that start to roll off below 100Hz, then just set the sub around there.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Just out of curiosity is there any good amp, pre amp and dac combos/all in ones? Thinking of getting the Schiit Audio Asgard 2 & Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC USB Gen 2 but would need to buy another power board to run them both







so curious to see if theres an all in one kinda set up

Thanks


----------



## d3viliz3d

Hey all!

What a great thread this is








I'd like to ask your opinion since I cannot take a decision by myself.
I've been looking around for a good pair of headphones and I heard good things abouth the AKG Q701. I think that's my final choice!
My main use would be gaming and then music (Electronic, House/Progressive, but also Rock/Soul/RnB and Movies/Videogames OSTs).
What I'm still undecided on is the DAP/AMP setup.
These are the options I made up:

1) A sound card, probably a SoundBlaster Z + an O2 AMP = cost around: 180€
PROS:
+ Sound card is good for gaming (Support for tridimensional sounds etc)
+ Mic included, since the cans doesn't have one
+ Cheapest solution
CONS:
- an external DAC would be better
- O2 amp runs on batteries, I prefer direct AC power since I will only use it indoor

2) ODAC + O2 combo = cost around 210€
PROS:
+ Best integrated solution
CONS:
- No mic available
- (Not sure about this one) Would the DAC convert a bad signal since it's coming from an integrated audio chip?
- More expensive

3) Any other setup ideas are welcome.

What do you say guys? I'm just a beginner in the audiophile world, I can't wait to explore it though!
Thanks for any input in advance!


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d3viliz3d*
> 
> 1) A sound card, probably a SoundBlaster Z + an O2 AMP = cost around: 180€
> PROS:
> + Sound card is good for gaming (Support for tridimensional sounds etc)
> + Mic included, since the cans doesn't have one
> + Cheapest solution
> CONS:
> - an external DAC would be better
> - O2 amp runs on batteries, I prefer direct AC power since I will only use it indoor
> 
> 2) ODAC + O2 combo = cost around 210€
> PROS:
> + Best integrated solution
> CONS:
> - No mic available
> - (Not sure about this one) Would the DAC convert a bad signal since it's coming from an integrated audio chip?
> - More expensive


The mic included with the Z is garbage. However, a sound card typically has noise cancellation and other mic effects that can be beneficial. Get a modmic or something like the Labtec LVA-7330 and velcro or magnet mod it.

The O2 does run on AC power, you can just take the batteries out. ODAC bypasses any sound card or integrated audio.

I'd tell you to get the Z and O2. According to some people anecdotal reports, you might have to run a 3.5mm cable from the headphone out on the Z, rather than the line out, in order to enable the headphone effects.


----------



## Simca

No use for the Z if you're getting the O2. That's a waste of money.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No use for the Z if you're getting the O2. That's a waste of money.


Why? It's the cheapest sound card with SBX.


----------



## Loktar Ogar

Hey Simca / OCN peeps, i can see a sub $50 Superlux HD668B on the list for recommended gaming Headphones... What about the newer Superlux HD-330 compared to 668Bs? I don't mind the higher impedance of HD-330 but need to know which is better. Thoughts please...


----------



## wolfxing

got my K550 today, just way better than GSH-1 out of box...
I heard AKG always need more time to burn in... I'll just go with normal use way to burn it..
Thank you so much simca


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Why? It's the cheapest sound card with SBX.


Do people really use SBX anymore?


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> Do people really use SBX anymore?


Some people seem to like surround effects. I haven't used them for a long time.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfxing*
> 
> got my K550 today, just way better than GSH-1 out of box...
> I heard AKG always need more time to burn in... I'll just go with normal use way to burn it..
> Thank you so much simca


I use the AKG K551 for closed applications and I have not noticed it needs a burn time or a burn in to significantly change the acoustic properties. Then again even Tyll has shown that burn-in while it does exist is not as noticeable or significant as proponents will claim.

It's a great headphone but I wish they really would have added a detachable cable to the design without re-releasing it as a smaller K545.


----------



## d3viliz3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> The mic included with the Z is garbage. However, a sound card typically has noise cancellation and other mic effects that can be beneficial. Get a modmic or something like the Labtec LVA-7330 and velcro or magnet mod it.
> 
> The O2 does run on AC power, you can just take the batteries out. ODAC bypasses any sound card or integrated audio.
> 
> I'd tell you to get the Z and O2. According to some people anecdotal reports, you might have to run a 3.5mm cable from the headphone out on the Z, rather than the line out, in order to enable the headphone effects.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> No use for the Z if you're getting the O2. That's a waste of money.


Thanks to both of you for your opinions!
@DrGroove I don't need a wonderful mic, I don't rec sounds at all. I just need one average mic, just for online games








I didn't understand what you meant here: _you might have to run a 3.5mm cable from the headphone out on the Z, rather than the line out, in order to enable the headphone effects_








@Simca I agree, but I will need a DAC somehow right? I'm actually more oriented to the ODAC+O2 combo, my only concern is: will I get a degraded signal coming into the DAC since it comes from the onboard audio?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Some people seem to like surround effects. I haven't used them for a long time.


So far I only tried Razer "fake" surround effects, I sincerely hope a dedicated board would so something better than those


----------



## Sasasd

It doesnt matter where you take digital signal. Digital signal cant degrade, as long as you have set all software volume to 100%. But I doubt you can notice difference even though you havent maxed all volumes.


----------



## hatrix216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d3viliz3d*
> 
> Thanks to both of you for your opinions!
> @DrGroove I don't need a wonderful mic, I don't rec sounds at all. I just need one average mic, just for online games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't understand what you meant here: _you might have to run a 3.5mm cable from the headphone out on the Z, rather than the line out, in order to enable the headphone effects_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Simca I agree, but I will need a DAC somehow right? I'm actually more oriented to the ODAC+O2 combo, my only concern is: will I get a degraded signal coming into the DAC since it comes from the onboard audio?
> So far I only tried Razer "fake" surround effects, I sincerely hope a dedicated board would so something better than those


The sound doesn't come from your onboard audio though. The ODAC plugs in through USB and is used as your sound card, bypassing onboard audio. Your onboard audio is a DAC too, it converts the digital audio signal to analog, which is what comes out of the 3.5mm jack on your mobos back panel.

The ODAC has a far superior DAC in it though.

And the above posters right for the most part. Definitely always keep the volume for your ODAC in windows at 100. Control volume with the ODAC itself, never in any software.

Digital signals will degrade over long runs, but that's sort of off topic because I doubt you'd ever come into that problem with audio from your PC.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> Digital signals will degrade over long runs, but that's sort of off topic because I doubt you'd ever come into that problem with audio from your PC.


Digital signals won't degrade over long runs. And you don't need shielding. Ask AVSforum if you doubt it.


----------



## d3viliz3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sasasd*
> 
> It doesnt matter where you take digital signal. Digital signal cant degrade, as long as you have set all software volume to 100%. But I doubt you can notice difference even though you havent maxed all volumes.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> The sound doesn't come from your onboard audio though. The ODAC plugs in through USB and is used as your sound card, bypassing onboard audio. Your onboard audio is a DAC too, it converts the digital audio signal to analog, which is what comes out of the 3.5mm jack on your mobos back panel.
> 
> The ODAC has a far superior DAC in it though.
> 
> And the above posters right for the most part. Definitely always keep the volume for your ODAC in windows at 100. Control volume with the ODAC itself, never in any software.
> 
> Digital signals will degrade over long runs, but that's sort of off topic because I doubt you'd ever come into that problem with audio from your PC.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Digital signals won't degrade over long runs. And you don't need shielding. Ask AVSforum if you doubt it.


Thanks all, that makes sense!
I think I got my decision, the ODAC+O2 seems the best option I have. Reps incoming!


----------



## kokpa

Guys, what cans do you reccomend for the FIRST one?







BUget would be max 150eur(some dt990 ? )


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Guys, what cans do you recommend for the FIRST one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUget would be max 150eur(some dt990 ? )


Depends on what you want.

We need to know your sound tastes. Describe genres, and how you like each range of sound (bass, low-mids, high-mids, treble) to sound. Do you have an amp or will you buy one? Do you prefer warm/dark or cold/bright? (warm/dark basically focuses on low-mids with some bass, bright/cold focuses on high-mids and some treble).


----------



## kokpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Depends on what you want.
> 
> We need to know your sound tastes. Describe genres, and how you like each range of sound (bass, low-mids, high-mids, treble) to sound. Do you have an amp or will you buy one? Do you prefer warm/dark or cold/bright? (warm/dark basically focuses on low-mids with some bass, bright/cold focuses on high-mids and some treble).


I'm noob in this things, I just want to see diffrence from my x-530 set. I usually listen to rock, pop, some house,country, dubsteb. I would like that tey are confortable for watching movies,series. For know I just have just onboard sound card(maximus gene-z iv), but I open for new sound card. dac., amp, in the future. I think the best type would be semi open or open headphones, I like to hear what's goiing on around me. I don't know about range of sound....For now I have tried steelserries 7h but I don't like at all, first impression was what a bad sound if I comper it to x530 and I didn't hear the others in room...


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> I'm noob in this things, I just want to see diffrence from my x-530 set. I usually listen to rock, pop, some house,country, dubsteb. I would like that tey are confortable for watching movies,series. For know I just have just onboard sound card(maximus gene-z iv), but I open for new sound card. dac., amp, in the future. I think the best type would be semi open or open headphones, I like to hear what's goiing on around me. I don't know about range of sound....For now I have tried steelserries 7h but I don't like at all, first impression was what a bad sound if I comper it to x530 and I didn't hear the others in room...


I would recommend you audition or try out the Sennheiser HD518/558. Those are great budget cans that can suit a wide majority of genre's especially those that you listed. The bass response on those headphones as well are well suited to those type of music.


----------



## kokpa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> I would recommend you audition or try out the Sennheiser HD518/558. Those are great budget cans that can suit a wide majority of genre's especially those that you listed. The bass response on those headphones as well are well suited to those type of music.


45nm what do you mean with audition? Thanks for suggestion but on the look of sennheiser I don't like how they look :/


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> 45nm what do you mean with audition? Thanks for suggestion but on the look of sennheiser I don't like how they look :/


Audition meaning that you try them out for example at an audio store ...

Looks don't matter as much as acoustic quality or sound signature. I would highly recommend against choosing a headphone based on looks. Besides when it is on your head you are not going to be taking it off every second and looking at it. It would stay on your head until you need to take it off and then repeat.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> 45nm what do you mean with audition? Thanks for suggestion but on the look of sennheiser I don't like how they look :/


As much as I love aesthetics, discounting a headphone solely off of looks will get you in trouble. I would recommend the HE-300's if you can get them for the price, but you should be warned that they are quite warm, so you need to be sure you figure out whether or not you like warm. A lot of people would recommend DT880's if they're in your price range. I would personally avoid any Audio Technica products too. The pads on them harden and the M- and WS-series are extremely V-shaped in their sound signature (lacking in mids). The DT770 Pro's are also popular but more of a basshead can, and also very mid-lacking. Sennheiser makes a good option at pretty much every price point and they are relatively neutral so you will probably end up with something decent if you get Sennheisers.The Denon D2K are close-backed but VERY well liked. I've personally never tried them but they are known to be a great all-around headphone.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I would personally avoid any Audio Technica products too. The pads on them harden and they are mostly extremely V-shaped in their sound signature (lacking in mids).


Feel the need to correct you here. The AD700/900, AD1000/2000x are all extremely mid centric.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Feel the need to correct you here. The AD700/900, AD1000/2000x are all extremely mid centric.


Probably just about every ATH headphone outside of the M and WS series has some emphasis on the midrange.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> Feel the need to correct you here. The AD700/900, AD1000/2000x are all extremely mid centric.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably just about every ATH headphone outside of the M and WS series has some emphasis on the midrange.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I stand corrected.


----------



## kokpa

Thanks guys, now i just have to find cans that you suggested in my country,...i could get dt990 pro 250ohm for 150eur, but guy in the shop suggested me dt440 for 104eur.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kokpa*
> 
> Thanks guys, now i just have to find cans that you suggested in my country,...i could get dt990 pro 250ohm for 150eur, but guy in the shop suggested me dt440 for 104eur.


They will also need an amp. Don't listen to that shop guy.


----------



## DF is BUSY

is the *Asus Xonar DG* still a recommended entry level sound card at current time? how does it compare to onboard ALC892 ?


----------



## Sungbung

I got it recently and it sounds amazing.

Before upgrading, my headphones sounded really quiet when I watched some movies, but the sound card allows you to increase the volume so much more without adding any distortion.
I heard that the Asus Xonar isn't as good for gaming compared some alternatives, but I honestly think it's a big improvement to my realtek onboard included in the Asrock mobo.

Everything sounds so clear compared to before. I wanted to test if this was a placebo so I ended up removing it just to check.

I had to go back to the sound card to remove distortions and the general "fuzziness" from the onboard.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> is the *Asus Xonar DG* still a recommended entry level sound card at current time? how does it compare to onboard ALC892 ?


It is a nice little upgrade from onboard. I would go for it! Good deal at about $20

If you can't find one that cheap, this is well-liked for $30:
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI


----------



## Gaupz

Hey guys. Great thread here, lots of info.
I recently got my hands on a pair of hd800s. Currently just running them off of the zxr. Looking to get an amp and possibly replace the sound card.

First off I know the hd800s probably deserve a lot more than I'm willing to spend on an amp/DAC. I would like to know thoughts on the schiit magni /modi and the hd800s. Would it be worth it to replace the zxr with an external DAC? The headphones already sound phenomenal off of the zxr. I know I want a better amp for them but just crossed about the DAC. Other option would be a dacmagicplus that I could pick up for 300.

I only paid 600 for the hd800 so please don't crucify me haha.


----------



## ssgtnubb

Talk about a good deal on those 800s, I'm jealous of you sir. I push my HD 650 with the Schiit Stack and couldn't be happier. You should have no issues with your 800s.


----------



## Gaupz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssgtnubb*
> 
> Talk about a good deal on those 800s, I'm jealous of you sir. I push my HD 650 with the Schiit Stack and couldn't be happier. You should have no issues with your 800s.


Yea the stack is what I'm leaning towards here. Only thing is I enjoy the added bass and EQ from the Creatve labs software.

Wanted to mainly know what improvements I would see with the Schiit stack over my ZxR. If it isn't that much I'm fairly happy with the sound quality now, I would probably just grab the amp and use the DAC on the ZxR.


----------



## BonzaiTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> is the *Asus Xonar DG* still a recommended entry level sound card at current time? how does it compare to onboard ALC892 ?


Yes, get it!
For $30 or so, it's a huge improvement.

I'm driving my HD518's with them, and it provides extra clarity for my speakers too.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sungbung*
> 
> I got it recently and it sounds amazing.
> 
> Before upgrading, my headphones sounded really quiet when I watched some movies, but the sound card allows you to increase the volume so much more without adding any distortion.
> I heard that the Asus Xonar isn't as good for gaming compared some alternatives, but I honestly think it's a big improvement to my realtek onboard included in the Asrock mobo.
> 
> Everything sounds so clear compared to before. I wanted to test if this was a placebo so I ended up removing it just to check.
> 
> I had to go back to the sound card to remove distortions and the general "fuzziness" from the onboard.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> is the *Asus Xonar DG* still a recommended entry level sound card at current time? how does it compare to onboard ALC892 ?
> 
> 
> 
> It is a nice little upgrade from onboard. I would go for it! Good deal at about $20
> 
> If you can't find one that cheap, this is well-liked for $30:
> http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonzaiTree*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> is the *Asus Xonar DG* still a recommended entry level sound card at current time? how does it compare to onboard ALC892 ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, get it!
> For $30 or so, it's a huge improvement.
> 
> I'm driving my HD518's with them, and it provides extra clarity for my speakers too.
Click to expand...

no problems with a pci sound card nowadays? isn't that like "legacy" now? lol.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> PCI is plenty capable for a sound card. There isn't much data going through. Might have some problems with compatibility though.


----------



## BonzaiTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> no problems with a pci sound card nowadays? isn't that like "legacy" now? lol.


No, there is no advantage over PCI and PCIe when it comes to soundcards.

So if you have an open PCI slot, you might as well buy a Xonar DG. That way you save money (it's cheaper than the DGX) and you take up a slot that would otherwise not be used, leaving more open PCIe slots


----------



## DF is BUSY

@phillyd

@BonzaiTree

one last question- the attractiveness for the DG is because of the headphone amp right? what if i dont plan on using headphones though? still a viable upgrade for regular speakers?

(im using Altec Lansing VS2621 2.1 for what its worth)


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> @phillyd
> 
> @BonzaiTree
> 
> one last question- the attractiveness for the DG is because of the headphone amp right? what if i dont plan on using headphones though? still a viable upgrade for regular speakers?
> (im using Altec Lansing VS2621 2.1 for what its worth)


Yes, and I would advise you to try and actually go for the DGX. There is no sound difference, but it is a PCI express version of the card. If you ever need to upgrade your mobo for some reason, you might not have a legacy PCI slot where as PCI express is not going anywhere any time soon.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> @phillyd
> 
> @BonzaiTree
> 
> one last question- the attractiveness for the DG is because of the headphone amp right? what if i dont plan on using headphones though? still a viable upgrade for regular speakers?
> (im using Altec Lansing VS2621 2.1 for what its worth)
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and I would advise you to try and actually go for the DGX. There is no sound difference, but it is a PCI express version of the card. If you ever need to upgrade your mobo for some reason, you might not have a legacy PCI slot where as PCI express is not going anywhere any time soon.
Click to expand...

i thought about that too but due to the weird positioning of the pcie slots on my p8z77 v-pro board (thanks asus







) my graphics card and phanteks cooler is not allowing much clearance for the pcie slots. meanwhile i have a pci slot right at the bottom wide open. guess i'll just go for that then.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gaupz*
> 
> Hey guys. Great thread here, lots of info.
> I recently got my hands on a pair of hd800s. Currently just running them off of the zxr. Looking to get an amp and possibly replace the sound card.
> 
> First off I know the hd800s probably deserve a lot more than I'm willing to spend on an amp/DAC. I would like to know thoughts on the schiit magni /modi and the hd800s. Would it be worth it to replace the zxr with an external DAC? The headphones already sound phenomenal off of the zxr. I know I want a better amp for them but just crossed about the DAC. Other option would be a dacmagicplus that I could pick up for 300.
> 
> I only paid 600 for the hd800 so please don't crucify me haha.


What currency is the 600 in. If that is in USD then that is a great deal.

I would recommend the O2+ODAC combination from JDS Labs. I have this combination and it drives my Beyerdynamic T1 and it will also drive my Sennheiser HD800 and the Hifiman He-500. The best thing about the O2+ODAC is the multitude of features built into it and the fact that it can drive even the most power hungry headphones such as the Hifiman He-6.

There are plenty of reviews out there on the Web about the combo so I would definitely recommend taking a look.


----------



## BonzaiTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> @phillyd
> 
> @BonzaiTree
> 
> one last question- the attractiveness for the DG is because of the headphone amp right? what if i dont plan on using headphones though? still a viable upgrade for regular speakers?
> (im using Altec Lansing VS2621 2.1 for what its worth)
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and I would advise you to try and actually go for the DGX. There is no sound difference, but it is a PCI express version of the card. If you ever need to upgrade your mobo for some reason, you might not have a legacy PCI slot where as PCI express is not going anywhere any time soon.
Click to expand...

Hmm, never thought about it that way--good point.

I still am glad I purchased the DG version--by the time I upgrade I probably will have also upgraded my amp situation so I don't need it to last forever--and it was cheaper so it works out well. However, that's just me, so it makes total sense to consider future compatibility.


----------



## AblueXKRS

What's the most comfortable pair of over-the-ear headphones for less than $100?

I bought an Audio-Technica ATH-M35. They provide very nice sound, but padding isn't quite thick enough to hold them off my ears.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> What's the most comfortable pair of over-the-ear headphones for less than $100?
> 
> I bought an Audio-Technica ATH-M35. They provide very nice sound, but padding isn't quite thick enough to hold them off my ears.


Audio-Technica's leatherette pads harden too. I would not recommend them for comfort.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> What's the most comfortable pair of over-the-ear headphones for less than $100?
> 
> I bought an Audio-Technica ATH-M35. They provide very nice sound, but padding isn't quite thick enough to hold them off my ears.


Are you looking for closed back headphones or open back headphones ?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Closed.


----------



## DF is BUSY

trying to get uni xonar drivers for my DG to install is ?_?.

the setup keeps hanging even though the progress bar is at the end.

*edit

installed drivers only, then installed the uni xonar.exe seems to have worked.

not a complete healthy start to this experience, will test out sound tomorrow morning.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Question, is there an external DAC that can do surround through stereo headphones like sound cards can?

ie setting the software to 5 or 8 channel therefor giving you surround through your headphones


----------



## hatrix216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Question, is there an external DAC that can do surround through stereo headphones like sound cards can?
> 
> ie setting the software to 5 or 8 channel therefor giving you surround through your headphones


I'm a bit doubtful. It would have to be some sort of rackmount DSP which is a bit of a stray from an ordinary DAC.

This effect can easily be achieved with foobar. Dolby Headphone DSP along with channel mixer DSP in surround mode. Doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> I'm a bit doubtful. It would have to be some sort of rackmount DSP which is a bit of a stray from an ordinary DAC.
> 
> This effect can easily be achieved with foobar. Dolby Headphone DSP along with channel mixer DSP in surround mode. Doesn't get much better than that.


Ah ok, but seeing its through Foobar it wouldnt work for gaming would it?


----------



## hatrix216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Ah ok, but seeing its through Foobar it wouldnt work for gaming would it?


Not in that case, no. But to be honest, it will NOT offer you better stereo imaging so it wouldn't be good for games anyways. It just offers a "different" somewhat attractive sound to music, depending on what you're listening too.

If you had a 5.1 capable receiver laying around you could use that and choose one of the surround DSPs, plug your headphones in, problem solved. I still highly doubt it will improve the stereo image. If anything it will just degrade it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Digital signals won't degrade over long runs. And you don't need shielding. Ask AVSforum if you doubt it.


Late reply to this, I didn't see it.

I don't need to ask AVSforum. I know digital signals degrade over very long runs. When running Cat5e, you aren't supposed to make individual runs over 328ft or so. If you do, it's recommended to put a switch or some type of amplifier at that point. While it's still plenty possible to go over 328ft and have the run work, I'm doubtful that when tested with with a cable certifier it would pass. I do commercial wiring, data and voice, and always certify every run of Cat5e or Cat6 installed. The problem with making runs to long is that you'll start to experience packet loss.

This concept would apply to any type of digital cable... The length will obviously vary depending on the cable, but signal degradation will occur, even if we are talking fiber (though runs can be considerably long before needing a repeater now a days).

Attenuation occurs to any digital/telecommunications signal passing through a medium....That's also not considering noise, interference, or distortion.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> you aren't supposed to make individual runs over *328ft* or so.


Okay well we're talking about in-home digital use. So this isn't applicable.


----------



## hatrix216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Okay well we're talking about in-home digital use. So this isn't applicable.


Which is why I said:
Quote:


> Digital signals will degrade over long runs, but that's sort of off topic because I doubt you'd ever come into that problem with audio from your PC


I just wanted to make it clear that they _do_ degrade over long runs. Yes, mostly only in commercial applications.


----------



## Simca

Is this where we compare how big our e-peens are with knowledge of useless information.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatrix216*
> 
> Not in that case, no. But to be honest, it will NOT offer you better stereo imaging so it wouldn't be good for games anyways. It just offers a "different" somewhat attractive sound to music, depending on what you're listening too.
> 
> If you had a 5.1 capable receiver laying around you could use that and choose one of the surround DSPs, plug your headphones in, problem solved. I still highly doubt it will improve the stereo image. If anything it will just degrade it.


Who listens to music in surround









Yeah cant have the sound degraded when gaming

Another quick question, games that have 5/7.1 sound options, would that still work with an external DAC like the Modi, Bifrost? What I mean is would it go from the game in 5/7.1, through the DAC and amp and still come out as 5/7.1 through headphones or would the DAC force it into stereo?


----------



## Cavi Mike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Another quick question, games that have 5/7.1 sound options, would that still work with an external DAC like the Modi, Bifrost? What I mean is would it go from the game in 5/7.1, through the DAC and amp and still come out as 5/7.1 through headphones or would the DAC force it into stereo?


Whatever does the surround decoding would do it. If your DAC only has stereo outputs, you wouldn't get surround until that was plugged into something that has a decoder. If your DAC has 5/7.1 outputs, then that's what does the surround decoding.

As far as surround in headphones, unless your headphones have multiple drivers and multiple connections and/or a surround decoder, you're not getting surround in them.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cavi Mike*
> 
> Whatever does the surround decoding would do it. If your DAC only has stereo outputs, you wouldn't get surround until that was plugged into something that has a decoder. If your DAC has 5/7.1 outputs, then that's what does the surround decoding.


Ah ok, kind of annoying but I get it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cavi Mike*
> 
> As far as surround in headphones, unless your headphones have multiple drivers and multiple connections and/or a surround decoder, you're not getting surround in them.


Gotta disagree with you a little there, although you dont get "true" surround with stereo headphones its still a virtual surround sound, it gives the illusion of depth and surround while still being far more accurate and clearer then any headphone with multiple drivers

I only say this coz I had a Razer 5.1 headset, cant remember which one but then switched to Audio Technica AD-700s, exact same audio setup, 8 channel in Asus software with 5/7.1 in game, the AD-700s were a hell of a lot better at recreating surround with 2 drivers then the Razer was with its multiple drivers

But thats just me, I know some people lover there 5/7.1 headsets and others like me prefer normal stereo headphones


----------



## Barbecuesaus

Hi im realy looking for some help , none seems to reply on my topic









Im curious why 7.1 or 5.1 headphones arent recommend. Al i find in specs are Stereo headphones. As for the gaming department im looking for at least.

:/ i cant buy a headphone without knowing Why....

Sadly nobody replied to my topic so i arent getting much wiser at the moment.
And im realy want to buy a new headphones.... but too much doubt, gonna make wrong purchase without help


----------



## Simca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barbecuesaus*
> 
> Hi im realy looking for some help , none seems to reply on my topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im curious why 7.1 or 5.1 headphones arent recommend. Al i find in specs are Stereo headphones. As for the gaming department im looking for at least.
> 
> :/ i cant buy a headphone without knowing Why....
> 
> Sadly nobody replied to my topic so i arent getting much wiser at the moment.
> And im realy want to buy a new headphones.... but too much doubt, gonna make wrong purchase without help


It's been posted many times and is pretty easy to find throughout the internet. Basically, you're stuffing a bunch of tiny drivers that are almost always poor quality very close to your ear and expecting them to give you "true" positioning when the reality is, you're actually better off going with a single driver that's higher quality and better for fidelity and designed by people that know how to make headphones/audio gear rather than some crappy company that is just stuffing drivers in a "pretty gamer" package and selling it to you at a premium. You're not getting better positioning from 7 tiny drivers that are bunched in a closed area so near your ear.

Those tiny 7 drivers are lacking the detail, clarity and imaging that a proper headphone will give you. Best case scenario for a 7 driver headset is it'll give you better top down imaging, but when do you ever need to kill someone directly above you or directly below you? The rest of your field of vision is superior on a headphone with proper imaging and soundstage.


----------



## Welliam

I read the information in the first post about internal sound cards and I want to ask how good is the sound in the motherboard Gigabyte G1.Sniper model that has built in Creative Sound Core3D and upgradable OP-AMP compared with other creative sound cards ?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Welliam*
> 
> I read the information in the first post about internal sound cards and I want to ask how good is the sound in the motherboard Gigabyte G1.Sniper model that has built in Creative Sound Core3D and upgradable OP-AMP compared with other creative sound cards ?


The G1.Sniper 3? I have this board and the sound is about as good as a Xonar DG. Anything else will beat it handily. Make sure to disable all the driver features and enhancements.


----------



## Welliam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> The G1.Sniper 3? I have this board and the sound is about as good as a Xonar DG. Anything else will beat it handily. Make sure to disable all the driver features and enhancements.


thanks for replaying.....I meant this one
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4802#kf

But it should be the same ? I still did not get this board, I just consider it only for the sound but do you think getting sound blaster Z is better ?


----------



## phillyd

It might be a tiny bit better but you'd be much better off with putting $50-75 into a decent sound card or external DAC.

Either way it's better than average onboard by a bit.


----------



## Welliam

Ok Thanks


----------



## Barbecuesaus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> It's been posted many times and is pretty easy to find throughout the internet. Basically, you're stuffing a bunch of tiny drivers that are almost always poor quality very close to your ear and expecting them to give you "true" positioning when the reality is, you're actually better off going with a single driver that's higher quality and better for fidelity and designed by people that know how to make headphones/audio gear rather than some crappy company that is just stuffing drivers in a "pretty gamer" package and selling it to you at a premium. You're not getting better positioning from 7 tiny drivers that are bunched in a closed area so near your ear.
> 
> Those tiny 7 drivers are lacking the detail, clarity and imaging that a proper headphone will give you. Best case scenario for a 7 driver headset is it'll give you better top down imaging, but when do you ever need to kill someone directly above you or directly below you? The rest of your field of vision is superior on a headphone with proper imaging and soundstage.


Thank you very much for your reply, i just read alot from your guide and searched around for wich ever is better.
But i wanted to understand better. And i do now so thanks for thank =)

I do get the whole gaming company package with crappy drivers
im stil running with a dedicated sound card from creative, But the software can be annoying sometimes :/ Too much ''bells an
and i had 2 of those gamers headsets , but below 50 euro so far.

This time i wanted to spend more but also be sure the money is spend on quality and not on things that i care less about


----------



## dt3k

I'm looking for a pair of bookshelf speakers in the $250-$300 range (for the pair). I listen to Progressive Rock/Metal and Classical music mostly. I'm using an old pioneer amp and an Asus Xonar D1 card. Are the Infinity Primus P153/P163 listed on Page1 my best bet? Do I have any other options to explore?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Polk speakers are good as well. Some people prefer the sound of them better.


----------



## dt3k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Polk speakers are good as well. Some people prefer the sound of them better.


I was looking at the Polk Audio RTI A1 too. Are they a pretty good speaker? Any sub $300 Polks you'd recommend?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Monitor 40's. I have the p153s and monitors 40's and I prefer the 40's. I have the 153's at the back of my room though, I'll have to do a side by side test sometime.


----------



## dt3k

I'll check those out, thanks, are you using a sub with your Monitor 40's?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I am, polk psw 505.


----------



## AblueXKRS

So I picked up a Creative SoundBlaster Z (not a Zx) and stuck it my machine.

I assume it's working, as I have the control software installed and fiddling with it changes my stereo's performance...

But I can not discern any difference in audio quality between the previous onboard setup I had and this, except for slightly less cheap-sounding bass and slightly crisper vocals.

Am I missing something? I don't think the minor change made by the extra pound of plastic and silicon was worth the $90 I spent on it.

Also the headphone slot on the card hates my headphones (the bass it pushes through the headphones is physically painful) and the software control won't let me adjust headphone performance the way I can with speakers. What gives?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> So I picked up a Creative SoundBlaster Z (not a Zx) and stuck it my machine.
> 
> I assume it's working, as I have the control software installed and fiddling with it changes my stereo's performance...
> 
> But I can not discern any difference in audio quality between the previous onboard setup I had and this, except for slightly less cheap-sounding bass and slightly crisper vocals.
> 
> Am I missing something? I don't think the minor change made by the extra pound of plastic and silicon was worth the $90 I spent on it.
> 
> Also the headphone slot on the card hates my headphones (the bass it pushes through the headphones is physically painful) and the software control won't let me adjust headphone performance the way I can with speakers. What gives?


what speakers/headphones?


----------



## AblueXKRS

Dell MMS-5650 and an Audio Technica ATH-M35.


----------



## iEATu

Well to be fair, you did buy cheap headphones compared to the cost of your soundcard. You would be better off selling the headphones, returning the sound card and getting better headphones with a cheaper soundcard if you need one for gaming.


----------



## phillyd

I cannot imagine those speakers being great either. It's like upgrading from a 560Ti to a 780Ti and not noticing a difference because of your 640x480 CRT monitor.


----------



## AblueXKRS

Fair enough. I figured the speakers and headphones were basically my issue, considering their quality v that of the sound card.


----------



## Barbecuesaus

Hey i cant get the microphone to work on my pc with teamspeak.
I bought the Creative Aurvana Live 2! on advice.... and now i cant even get on teamspeak









IM realy afraid the Microphone is for smartphones or such because there is not separate cable for mic?

Anybody can help me out here, i just got that headset yesterday.


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

Doing a quick google search for the headphones you listed, I found this:

http://asia.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-aurvana-live2

You will see near the bottom of the page, there is a splitter for microphone and audio. That seems to be what you need. Otherwise, the headphones are only going to work in conjunction with the microphone when you are using your mobile phone.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barbecuesaus*
> 
> Hey i cant get the microphone to work on my pc with teamspeak.
> I bought the Creative Aurvana Live 2! on advice.... and now i cant even get on teamspeak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IM realy afraid the Microphone is for smartphones or such because there is not separate cable for mic?
> 
> Anybody can help me out here, i just got that headset yesterday.


----------



## Barbecuesaus

Oh.. thats good new!

Somebody should have told me when recommend this headset. :/
Now i gotta order again with shipping fees this time.

Maybe the OP can put this info into the first post of recommendation?
I just never expected this connection.

But im happy im just 1 cable away from using my mic because the sound this headset gives is amazing =D


----------



## DF is BUSY

hey guys, thought about starting a thread for this but I guess I'll just ask here instead.

please recommend me a pair of headphones/cans.

*budget:*
$125 USD and down, I may stretch a bit further if you really insist

*music:*
rap, hip hop, "pop/r&b" music mainly

*general usage:*
if i had to put it in a ratio, it would be mainly 80% watching movies, shows, youtube, music and the likes, and 20% gaming. Mainly at home use on the PC, or tablet(s) when I am afk

*hardware:*
i'll be pairing it up with a xonar dg

*purchasing:*
i am open to any place of purchase in the states aside from ebay.

open or closed back? I prefer open.

besides being comfortable and not making me sweat like a pig, the only one nitpicky requirement I have is to the headphone wire coming from just a single side of the headphones rather than dual/split cable.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> hey guys, thought about starting a thread for this but I guess I'll just ask here instead.
> 
> please recommend me a pair of headphones/cans.
> 
> *budget:*
> 
> $125 USD and down, I may stretch a bit further if you really insist
> 
> *music:*
> 
> rap, hip hop, "pop/r&b" music mainly
> 
> *general usage:*
> 
> if i had to put it in a ratio, it would be mainly 80% watching movies, shows, youtube, music and the likes, and 20% gaming. Mainly at home use on the PC, or tablet(s) when I am afk
> 
> *hardware:*
> 
> i'll be pairing it up with a xonar dg
> 
> *purchasing:*
> 
> i am open to any place of purchase in the states aside from ebay.
> 
> open or closed back? I prefer open.
> besides being comfortable and not making me sweat like a pig, the only one nitpicky requirement I have is to the headphone wire coming from just a single side of the headphones rather than dual/split cable.


You aren't going to be getting very good bass out of open cans at this price range. The cheapest open cans that compliment rap/hip-hop/r&b (deep, loud bass) would cost twice as much.

The Sennheiser 558 is the typical open headphone suggestion here, but they are lacking in bass.

General recommendations in your price range would be the Creative Aurvana Live and Aurvana Live 2. I'm a fan of the Klipsch Image One (first revision) but I haven't compared them to the Creative cans. I believe that the bass extension and impact is better for the Klipsch, but soundstage and tonal balance would be lacking, as well as detail. They are also on-ear, so they might not be preferred.


----------



## mikeaj

Maybe I'm wildly out of touch, but aren't most of the bass hits not actually that low? It's usually produced to not require that deep of bass.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> hey guys, thought about starting a thread for this but I guess I'll just ask here instead.
> 
> please recommend me a pair of headphones/cans.
> 
> *budget:*
> 
> $125 USD and down, I may stretch a bit further if you really insist
> 
> *music:*
> 
> rap, hip hop, "pop/r&b" music mainly
> 
> *general usage:*
> 
> if i had to put it in a ratio, it would be mainly 80% watching movies, shows, youtube, music and the likes, and 20% gaming. Mainly at home use on the PC, or tablet(s) when I am afk
> 
> *hardware:*
> 
> i'll be pairing it up with a xonar dg
> 
> *purchasing:*
> 
> i am open to any place of purchase in the states aside from ebay.
> 
> open or closed back? I prefer open.
> besides being comfortable and not making me sweat like a pig, the only one nitpicky requirement I have is to the headphone wire coming from just a single side of the headphones rather than dual/split cable.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't going to be getting very good bass out of open cans at this price range. The cheapest open cans that compliment rap/hip-hop/r&b (deep, loud bass) would cost twice as much.
> 
> The Sennheiser 558 is the typical open headphone suggestion here, but they are lacking in bass.
> 
> General recommendations in your price range would be the Creative Aurvana Live and Aurvana Live 2. I'm a fan of the Klipsch Image One (first revision) but I haven't compared them to the Creative cans. I believe that the bass extension and impact is better for the Klipsch, but soundstage and tonal balance would be lacking, as well as detail. They are also on-ear, so they might not be preferred.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Maybe I'm wildly out of touch, but aren't most of the bass hits not actually that low? It's usually produced to not require that deep of bass.


i actually don't need "great loud bass" despite my music tastes lol. just enough to compliment whatever song is playing or whatever movie i'm watching.

I will look up each of your recommendations, thank you.

any other suggestions out there from anyone?


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> i actually don't need "great loud bass" despite my music tastes lol. just enough to compliment whatever song is playing or whatever movie i'm watching.
> 
> I will look up each of your recommendations, thank you.
> 
> any other suggestions out there from anyone?


Probably the HD518, they are more bass emphasized.


----------



## BonzaiTree

It'd be stretching your budget, but what about ATH M-50's?

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B000ULAP4U

They're also closed back, which might be an issue, but they're supposed to have good bass and be great overall headphones.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonzaiTree*
> 
> It'd be stretching your budget, but what about ATH M-50's?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B000ULAP4U
> 
> They're also closed back, which might be an issue, but they're supposed to have good bass and be great overall headphones.


if you're not in to branding "name" you should buy the takstar pro 80/gemini hsr-1000 they have been praised to be better than the m50 in my country


----------



## phillyd

I actually disagree with the ATH-M50's. Even amplified their bass is pretty lame and they are quite lacking in mids.


----------



## BonzaiTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I actually disagree with the ATH-M50's. Even amplified their bass is pretty lame and they are quite lacking in mids.


Fair enough, I've never used them. I've just heard good things about them.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

The M50's are decent headphones, just not worth the $130-150 price tag they settled into. They are currently available on Massdrop right now though for $104, which they are worth buying at that price IMO.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BonzaiTree*
> 
> It'd be stretching your budget, but what about ATH M-50's?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B000ULAP4U
> 
> They're also closed back, which might be an issue, but they're supposed to have good bass and be great overall headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> if you're not in to branding "name" you should buy the takstar pro 80/gemini hsr-1000 they have been praised to be better than the m50 in my country
Click to expand...

the prices for those on amazon are pretty good, i'll look up some reviews for them. thanks


----------



## DF is BUSY

so my main recommendations from you guys seem to be

hd 558
cal! 1
cal! 2
hd 518
m-50
HSR-1000
takstar Pro80

choices, choices, choices


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Well...

The *ATH-M50* with a coiled cable is only 104.99 n MASSDROP (plus 9.99 shipping US)

You have 4 days to join in!


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> so my main recommendations from you guys seem to be
> 
> hd 558
> 
> cal! 1
> 
> cal! 2
> 
> hd 518
> 
> m-50
> 
> HSR-1000
> 
> takstar Pro80
> 
> choices, choices, choices


basically the hsr-1000 and the pro 80 is the same headphone, if you can read indonesia, you can check a review of my friend in the local forum
in my testing, the mid is a little bit laid back, although not too laid back, because the upper mid is helped by the boosted high, so it sounded a bit more flat because of that.
or if you have instagram, you can ask him (@admiralwiem) by searching his photo of the headphone and ask question in the comment


----------



## phillyd

I'd say they aren't worth $115, with that 2-4 week wait, or $100 on prime. They are severely overrated IMO.


----------



## Osea23

The sennheiser game zeros are going on a shell shocker right now. Are they better than the sennheiser hd 558?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I'd say they aren't worth $115, with that 2-4 week wait, or $100 on prime. They are severely overrated IMO.


That is of course your own opinion and your own taste good sir.









I've listened to both the HD 518/558 and the ATH-M50 and I have to say that if you want sound stage and mids the Senns are the way to go (but really very light bass impact), but if you listen to pop/ hip hop (or music that sounds well with a V-shaped sound sig) and want some decent bass the ATH-M50s are the way to go. I'd agree with you that the ATH-M50s would be over rated for gaming but for certain music they are better or equal or just a little behind the more expensive headphones out there (closed back).

Though when i compared the ATH-M50 to the ATHPro500 Mk2, I liked the latter better since the mids sounded better (more forward and vocals sounded better), the highs were more clear and the bass was more solid (not muddy). With some EQing, the ATH-M50s can be good (IMO of course) if you get it for a good price.

Think about it, the 518/558 and M50s are priced closely (depending where you buy them) and anyone can say the other is better but really it boils down to music preference and sound preference. One should really listen to the headphones they wish to buy (with the music they like) first then make that decision themselves.


----------



## SinX7

Hey guys, I am looking for a new gaming audio set up. I prefer it to have some good bass response on it. Running a cheap Asus Xonar sound card, but will be getting a better amp and stuff later on. Doesn't matter if its those "Gaming" headset or those good headphones. Got a zalman clip on mic.

Games I play:
DayZ (Mainly)
CS:S
TF2
BF4
Sims 3/4
And other steam games.

Budget: $100-$200

Thanks!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SinX7*
> 
> Hey guys, I am looking for a new gaming audio set up. I prefer it to have some good bass response on it. Running a cheap Asus Xonar sound card, but will be getting a better amp and stuff later on. Doesn't matter if its those "Gaming" headset or those good headphones. Got a zalman clip on mic.
> 
> Games I play:
> DayZ (Mainly)
> CS:S
> TF2
> BF4
> Sims 3/4
> And other steam games.
> 
> Budget: $100-$150ish
> 
> Thanks!


For gaming the HD518s are very good for the price range you're looking at. I have them and mainly use them for my gaming needs, I play FPS and I can tell where the all the sounds are coming from like bullet shots, movements, etc. The headphones doesn't really have heavy impact but the bass is there, explosions have weight and all when you use them for gaming.

I hear the SUperlux HD668B (waaaaaay cheaper as well - like $50-60) are good for gaming as well but they are more bass light than the HD518. Someone with experience can hopefully chime in on this.

EDIT: They have the *Superlux HD668B for $29.99* at Massdrop and that's a very good deal! Unless of course you can't wait for 10 days or so...


----------



## SinX7

I just saw this today. DT990 250ohm Pro for $186 shipped on Amazon. Is it worth it for gaming?

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-880-Pro-Headphones-250/dp/B001B1QENY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394740091&sr=8-1&keywords=DT880


----------



## Fortunex

They're a great headphone, but if _all_ you're doing is gaming, then I don't think they're worth it.


----------



## SinX7

Ah alright. Just wondering lol. Might pick up the new K702 instead then.

Anyone have any experience with this Psyko Krypton tho? How do those compare to the Logitech G headphones?

http://www.psykoaudio.com/GetPsyko/PsykoKrypton


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> That is of course your own opinion and your own taste good sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've listened to both the HD 518/558 and the ATH-M50 and I have to say that if you want sound stage and mids the Senns are the way to go (but really very light bass impact), but if you listen to pop/ hip hop (or music that sounds well with a V-shaped sound sig) and want some decent bass the ATH-M50s are the way to go. I'd agree with you that the ATH-M50s would be over rated for gaming but for certain music they are better or equal or just a little behind the more expensive headphones out there (closed back).
> 
> Though when i compared the ATH-M50 to the ATHPro500 Mk2, I liked the latter better since the mids sounded better (more forward and vocals sounded better), the highs were more clear and the bass was more solid (not muddy). With some EQing, the ATH-M50s can be good (IMO of course) if you get it for a good price.
> 
> Think about it, the 518/558 and M50s are priced closely (depending where you buy them) and anyone can say the other is better but really it boils down to music preference and sound preference. One should really listen to the headphones they wish to buy (with the music they like) first then make that decision themselves.


I'm not saying they're overrated for gaming. I'm saying they're overrated for music. Especially Rap/Dance. I personally think that the belief that a v-shaped sound signature compliments rap and electronic music should be reevaluated. Having a full mid-range has made me much happier with all genres. That doesn't mean I recommend the 518, I would honestly get the cheaper CAL 2's, or Klipsch Image One.

I agree that it's all about preference and people should definitely try headphones if possible.


----------



## DF is BUSY

thoughts on cal! 2 vs hd 558 for the same price?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> thoughts on cal! 2 vs hd 558 for the same price?


I haven't heard the CAL2, but the CAL 1 is a good buy for under $80. Honestly, I consider the HD558 vastly overpriced at its current $120-130 price range. It is worth around $100 IMO.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> thoughts on cal! 2 vs hd 558 for the same price?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the CAL2, but the CAL 1 is a good buy for under $80. Honestly, I consider the HD558 vastly overpriced at its current $120-130 price range. It is worth around $100 IMO.
Click to expand...

I want to get the CAL1 but damn it the CAL2 is so aesthetically pleasing









and reviews say its an across-the-board improvement of CAL1; at that price point it seems to be lovely.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> I want to get the CAL1 but damn it the CAL2 is so aesthetically pleasing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reviews say its an across-the-board improvement of CAL1; at that price point it seems to be lovely.


Isn't it like $50 more? It is up to you honestly.


----------



## DrGroove

Anyone have thoughts about the FA-003Ti that's on massdrop right now? Heard these compare to much higher end headphones.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> I want to get the CAL1 but damn it the CAL2 is so aesthetically pleasing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and reviews say its an across-the-board improvement of CAL1; at that price point it seems to be lovely.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it like $50 more? It is up to you honestly.
Click to expand...

 I caved and pulled the trigger on the CAL2's. Amazon tax made it kind of suck a bit; but I pulled through









I decided to snoop around and end up navigating to the CAL2 product page on the CREATIVE LABS website itself. Apparently, ordering through them but still checking out via Amazon Prime, I can avoid tax! Beautiful.

I have a good feeling that these are gonna exceed my expectations.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I'm not saying they're overrated for gaming. I'm saying they're overrated for music. Especially Rap/Dance. I personally think that the belief that a v-shaped sound signature compliments rap and electronic music should be reevaluated. Having a full mid-range has made me much happier with all genres. That doesn't mean I recommend the 518, I would honestly get the cheaper CAL 2's, or Klipsch Image One.
> 
> I agree that it's all about preference and people should definitely try headphones if possible.


Fair enough, we agree to disagree on some things!









I think for gaming they're more over rated because they don't have good sound stage and the recessed mids and highs don't help in sound location.

For music, they work well with pop and other genres but of course if you don't prefer U or V shaped sounding headphones you won't like it. A lot of people like the U or V shaped sound signature so again it's a subjective thing. I'm like you though, I prefer the Mids to always be there together with some bass.

As for the CAL 2, for the price, yes they are good soundwise (if they sound like CAL 1 and is an actual upgrade to it); but they're not very comfortable with the faux leather (at least my experience with the CAL 1) as compared to the HD518 plus they don't have the sound stage that the 518 has (Classical music, live music, FPS gaming and watching movies the HD518 shines). Again this is just my opinion of course.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> I caved and pulled the trigger on the CAL2's. Amazon tax made it kind of suck a bit; but I pulled through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to snoop around and end up navigating to the CAL2 product page on the CREATIVE LABS website itself. Apparently, ordering through them but still checking out via Amazon Prime, I can avoid tax! Beautiful.
> 
> I have a good feeling that these are gonna exceed my expectations.


The CAL 2 looks much nicer than the CAL 1 and if they maintained the same sound (hopefully improved it) you should be very happy!


----------



## mikeaj

Just FYI, I don't know if there were multiple revisions of the CAL lineup other than original vs. 2, but it seems the 2 is different and arguably worse.

See here:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/CreativeAurvana.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/CreativeAurvanaLive2.pdf

Note that the first pdf is mislabeled as only Creative Aurvana-it correctly says Creative Aurvana Live on this page.

So the new version seems to have more of a bass tilt and more dips and weirdness in the treble. Most people tend not to like a headphone that has an uncompensated response that is mostly flat like the CAL 2 seems to be doing. YMMV.

In any case, preferences aside, it seems different, and user comments seem to be along that direction.

edit: just one reviewer and don't freak out over just one person and what that one person thinks, but again from IF:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-february-2014-update
Quote:


> Creative Aurvana Live! 2 - Why do people keep dumping a perfectly good headphone for an inferior one? The Creative Aurvana Live! (the first one) was actually almost the same headphone as the Denon D1001. Denon replaced it with the D1100, which wasn't nearly as good. Creative Labs picked up the design of the D1001 (a Foster product), made a couple of changes, and produced the first Aurvana Live!. It sounded quite good, and now they've dumped it for the much better looking Live!2, but it sounds worse. Argh! Maybe Foster should just relaunch it under their Fostex brand-that would be nice.


I've seen other people not liking the CAL 2 as much, though I'm sure there are some with the reverse opinion too. I wish I tried it myself, but I haven't.


----------



## SinX7

How is the K612 compare to K702/702/Q701 for gaming with a amp?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyone an advocate of buying the best quality driver / comfort / looks for the money and EQing the rest?

I am! EQ is great when used properly and is a good equalizer.
the EQ demonisation by some 'purists' is stupid.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Anyone an advocate of buying the best quality driver / comfort / looks for the money and EQing the rest?
> 
> I am! EQ is great when used properly and is a good equalizer.
> the EQ demonisation by some 'purists' is stupid.


That's how I think now. From the high end headphones I've heard, there hasn't been enough of a wow factor that I would ever spend that much money.

I used to be a purist and refused to use EQ, but now there are several good windows EQ APOs that work system wide.


----------



## phillyd

I currently have a pretty much perfectly balanced headphone for my tastes, so I don't see a need to EQ it. I have a feeling that this balance will not exist in higher price ranges though, so I will probably have to EQ.


----------



## nitrubbb

Hi guys, I am using JVC-HARX 700 with my new PC. Audio specs below.

- 7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC1150 Audio Codec)
- Premium Blu-ray Audio support
- Supports Purity Sound™
- 115dB SNR DAC with differential amplifier
- TI NE5532 Premium Headset Amplifier (Supports up to 600 ohm headsets)
- Direct Drive Technology
- EMI shielding cover
- PCB isolate shielding
- Supports DTS Connect

I was hoping for an improvement over my old thinkpad T61/samsung galaxy ace sound but no, sound is more quiet and no bass improvement or anything - wth is wrong, what should I try?

In fact I get much better bass with my galaxy ace



I have only headphones connected to the back of the PC


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> Hi guys, I am using JVC-HARX 700 with my new PC. Audio specs below.
> 
> - 7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC1150 Audio Codec)
> - Premium Blu-ray Audio support
> - Supports Purity Sound™
> - 115dB SNR DAC with differential amplifier
> - TI NE5532 Premium Headset Amplifier (Supports up to 600 ohm headsets)
> - Direct Drive Technology
> - EMI shielding cover
> - PCB isolate shielding
> - Supports DTS Connect
> 
> I was hoping for an improvement over my old thinkpad T61/samsung galaxy ace sound but no, sound is more quiet and no bass improvement or anything - wth is wrong, what should I try?
> 
> In fact I get much better bass with my galaxy ace
> 
> 
> 
> I have only headphones connected to the back of the PC


Attach your headphones to the front audio port. There should be a small amp for that port which could help


----------



## Lukas026

Hello there guys

great thread you got there but I am still on the edge of choosing right headphones for me and I wanted to ask you for your opinions:

I am mostly a PC gamer and I am using my PC also for watching movies and listening rock / pop music.

I already have Sound Blaster ZxR in my PC and now I am looking for some nice headphones.

My budget is 600$.

I must mention that I like bassy music and effects in games. Not that I am some hardcore basshead but I just like it more that crisp voices and heights









Which headphones would you recommend for me and for my soundcard ?

Thanks


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Attach your headphones to the front audio port. There should be a small amp for that port which could help










my case's front audio plug is not working

have to send it to warranty then

will report if see an improvement


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I currently have a pretty much perfectly balanced headphone for my tastes, so I don't see a need to EQ it. I have a feeling that this balance will not exist in higher price ranges though, so I will probably have to EQ.


Mine's scientifically balanced


----------



## mikeaj

Still doing diffuse-field EQ based on public measurements for the headphone model? Or what was it? You don't have your own measuring system, do you?


----------



## Atomagenesis

Very surprised not to see the Musiland Monitor 02US on this guide, it has been mentioned numerous times on OCN as being the best 100$ DAC you can buy by more than one person and on head-fi according to some.

I used to have it with some Denon AH-D2000's, it was the best music setup I ever had.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lukas026*
> 
> Hello there guys
> 
> great thread you got there but I am still on the edge of choosing right headphones for me and I wanted to ask you for your opinions:
> 
> I am mostly a PC gamer and I am using my PC also for watching movies and listening rock / pop music.
> 
> I already have Sound Blaster ZxR in my PC and now I am looking for some nice headphones.
> 
> My budget is 600$.
> 
> I must mention that I like bassy music and effects in games. Not that I am some hardcore basshead but I just like it more that crisp voices and heights
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which headphones would you recommend for me and for my soundcard ?
> 
> Thanks


$600 is a very good budget. I'm not sure how good the ZXR is, but my guess is that running something like the Denon AH-D5000 with a dedicated amplifier would do very well. Maybe a JDSLabs O2.


----------



## Redoctober

Right now im debating between what headphone i should get in the 80-150 dollar price range.

Im looking really hard at the Beyerdynamic DT-990 or the Creative Aurvana Live 2

I am looking mainly for some nice headphones for gaming mainly but also to listen to some electronica (deadmau5 kinda stuff) and a bit of rap/metal

Currently i am using a Creative Blaster Z soundcard and just a crappy cheap turtle beach headset.

Just looking for suggestions to whether i should get either of those i don't mind if its an open or closed headphone.


----------



## cyferzero

I do not know how the CAL!2 sounds, but it's supposed to be good. It also has a built-in microphone in the cord, but I don't know if it's "smartphone only". It kinda looks like a smartphone-type headset.
However, the DT 990 is a very popular piece of German engineering that not only offers great soumd, but is also very tough and comfortable. Plus, you can find spare parts everywhere.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redoctober*
> 
> Right now im debating between what headphone i should get in the 80-150 dollar price range.
> Im looking really hard at the Beyerdynamic DT-990 or the Creative Aurvana Live 2
> 
> I am looking mainly for some nice headphones for gaming mainly but also to listen to some electronica (deadmau5 kinda stuff) and a bit of rap/metal
> 
> Currently i am using a Creative Blaster Z soundcard and just a crappy cheap turtle beach headset.
> 
> Just looking for suggestions to whether i should get either of those i don't mind if its an open or closed headphone.


I am the same as you, I mainly game, but I also occasionally listen to music and watch movies on my PC and youtube videos and stuff. I heard really good things about the DT-990's and at the price point for the 250ohm Pro you really can't go wrong. I also ordered a Creative Sound Blaster Z card, so I am really looking forward to hearing how the positional sound will be now. For the price point, you really can't beat the DT-990. I also heard that they are good for techno/classical, I'll have to see how they sound with metal, but I'm sure I won't be disappointed. Just ordered the DT-990's yesterday, super stoked to hear them.

I had the Denon AH-D2000's awhile back before they tripled in price. They sounded amazing for music, but just weren't good as gaming headphones, which is why I got rid of them.


----------



## Redoctober

Thanks for the input i'll be ordering the dt-990 then and a zalman mic for now to see how that mic turns out for skype/gaming if im not satisfied with the mic then i'll probably upgrade to an ATR-2500 or something.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redoctober*
> 
> Right now im debating between what headphone i should get in the 80-150 dollar price range.
> Im looking really hard at the Beyerdynamic DT-990 or the Creative Aurvana Live 2
> 
> I am looking mainly for some nice headphones for gaming mainly but also to listen to some electronica (deadmau5 kinda stuff) and a bit of rap/metal
> 
> Currently i am using a Creative Blaster Z soundcard and just a crappy cheap turtle beach headset.
> 
> Just looking for suggestions to whether i should get either of those i don't mind if its an open or closed headphone.


Sennheiser HD380 Pro. Not the most comfortable but not uncomfortable either. Very good bass. Not v-shaped in frequency response, and the low mids are nice and present. The treble is also sparkly. These would be good for your use in my opinion.
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-380-Pro-Collapsible-Professional/dp/B001UE6I0G


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AblueXKRS*
> 
> So I picked up a Creative SoundBlaster Z (not a Zx) and stuck it my machine.
> 
> I assume it's working, as I have the control software installed and fiddling with it changes my stereo's performance...
> 
> But I can not discern any difference in audio quality between the previous onboard setup I had and this, except for slightly less cheap-sounding bass and slightly crisper vocals.
> 
> Am I missing something? I don't think the minor change made by the extra pound of plastic and silicon was worth the $90 I spent on it.
> 
> Also the headphone slot on the card hates my headphones (the bass it pushes through the headphones is physically painful) and the software control won't let me adjust headphone performance the way I can with speakers. What gives?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redoctober*
> 
> Right now im debating between what headphone i should get in the 80-150 dollar price range.
> Im looking really hard at the Beyerdynamic DT-990 or the Creative Aurvana Live 2
> 
> I am looking mainly for some nice headphones for gaming mainly but also to listen to some electronica (deadmau5 kinda stuff) and a bit of rap/metal
> 
> Currently i am using a Creative Blaster Z soundcard and just a crappy cheap turtle beach headset.
> 
> Just looking for suggestions to whether i should get either of those i don't mind if its an open or closed headphone.


Try looking at the Beyerdynamic Custom One pro. That's a good closed headphone with great bass adjustment and excellent bass. Treble and mids are slightly recessed or lower but it still provides an excellent response to the majority of genre's (overall great for the majority of genre's).


----------



## BoredErica

Hi thread maker,

Firstly, thanks for writing the guide but also for updating it.

Second, just a question out of curiosity for the most part. Say you have $500 to spend on headphone or speakers. In general would the speakers have better sound quality? I would assume that for squishing down the speakers into small little headphones that fit on your head, some sacrifices must be made somewhere, meaning at the same price point, the best speakers would sound better than the best headphones. Right or wrong?

Third, the Objective DAC description notes that we need a stereo amplifier. But your suggestions list only includes Objective DAC + Headphone amplifier combo. Is this on purpose?

Fourth, I would suggest putting a little more info on the difference between an active vs a passive speaker. Why, at the 300+ section of active speakers you recommend starting a thread to be catered to personally yet you go way up the price level for the passives without recommending the same thing?

Fifth, I would suggest recommending people to listen to the speakers before they buy at a shop if they can. There are shops that let you do that. Not necessarily box store electronics-selling shops like I'd think of, but music shops too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> That's how I think now. From the high end headphones I've heard, there hasn't been enough of a wow factor that I would ever spend that much money.
> 
> I used to be a purist and refused to use EQ, but now there are several good windows EQ APOs that work system wide.
> Like what? It'd be cool to have some automated auto-EQ for Foobar that people say works well.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Hi thread maker,
> 
> Firstly, thanks for writing the guide but also for updating it.
> 
> Second, just a question out of curiosity for the most part. Say you have $500 to spend on headphone or speakers. In general would the speakers have better sound quality? I would assume that for squishing down the speakers into small little headphones that fit on your head, some sacrifices must be made somewhere, meaning at the same price point, the best speakers would sound better than the best headphones. Right or wrong?
> 
> Third, the Objective DAC description notes that we need a stereo amplifier. But your suggestions list only includes Objective DAC + Headphone amplifier combo. Is this on purpose?
> 
> Fourth, I would suggest putting a little more info on the difference between an active vs a passive speaker. Why, at the 300+ section of active speakers you recommend starting a thread to be catered to personally yet you go way up the price level for the passives without recommending the same thing?
> 
> Fifth, I would suggest recommending people to listen to the speakers before they buy at a shop if they can. There are shops that let you do that. Not necessarily box store electronics-selling shops like I'd think of, but music shops too.


Not the thread starter, but I can answer some of your questions.

2. It depends on what you want to do. However, I think most of us will say that dollar for dollar, headphones are much better. Speakers rely far too much on the environment they are used in. Speakers require more materials, bigger, more powerful amps, and if you want really good bass response, they either need to be massive and powerful, or you have to add a subwoofer. I'd say at $500, a DAC, amp, and pair of headphones would definitely outdo speakers for the same price. My $250 headphones + A $110 DAC/amp sound about 95% as good to me as my $400 speakers and ~$100 subwoofer.

3. The Objective DAC (like any other dac without an amp) needs a headphone amp for headphones and a speaker amp for speakers.

5. This seems like a given for any audio purchase. It's always best to try before you buy.

Hope I could help!


----------



## DF is BUSY

the DT 990 pro 250 ohm can be had on amazon for 140 shipped. can a xonar dg's amp drive these to their full potential?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> the DT 990 pro 250 ohm can be had on amazon for 140 shipped. can a xonar dg's amp drive these to their full potential?


No. You'll want at least a Fiio amp or ideally a Schiit Magni/Vali or an O2 by Mayflower or JDSLabs.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> the DT 990 pro 250 ohm can be had on amazon for 140 shipped. can a xonar dg's amp drive these to their full potential?
> 
> 
> 
> No. You'll want at least a Fiio amp or ideally a Schiit Magni/Vali or an O2 by Mayflower or JDSLabs.
Click to expand...

yeah i figured heh.

my cal2 is suppose to be coming in the mail today; super excited


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Not the thread starter, but I can answer some of your questions.
> 
> 2. It depends on what you want to do. However, I think most of us will say that dollar for dollar, headphones are much better. Speakers rely far too much on the environment they are used in. Speakers require more materials, bigger, more powerful amps, and if you want really good bass response, they either need to be massive and powerful, or you have to add a subwoofer. I'd say at $500, a DAC, amp, and pair of headphones would definitely outdo speakers for the same price. My $250 headphones + A $110 DAC/amp sound about 95% as good to me as my $400 speakers and ~$100 subwoofer.
> 
> 3. The Objective DAC (like any other dac without an amp) needs a headphone amp for headphones and a speaker amp for speakers.
> 
> 5. This seems like a given for any audio purchase. It's always best to try before you buy.
> 
> Hope I could help!


Did you read Tom Hardware's article on sound cards? They couldn't find a difference between a budget card compred to a high end DAC. What are you thoughts?

Also: If headphones are less expensive for a given amount of audio performance, does this mean it's time to go headphones for audio quality?

And finally, what are some songs or audio tracks which are excellent for benchmarking the audio quality of speakers? Some songs that contain many instruments?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Did you read Tom Hardware's article on sound cards? They couldn't find a difference between a budget card compred to a high end DAC. What are you thoughts?
> 
> Also: If headphones are less expensive for a given amount of audio performance, does this mean it's time to go headphones for audio quality?
> 
> And finally, what are some songs or audio tracks which are excellent for benchmarking the audio quality of speakers? Some songs that contain many instruments?


The basis of testing people with tracks that they aren't familiar with is poor. The best things to test audio quality with are songs that not only include a wide range of sounds (acoustic, electronic, vocal, etc.) but that you are also extremely familiar with. This will allow you to pick out minute differences.

Tom's failed to do this, so I find their results useless.

I believe that you're best off with a headphone setup.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> The basis of testing people with tracks that they aren't familiar with is poor. The best things to test audio quality with are songs that not only include a wide range of sounds (acoustic, electronic, vocal, etc.) but that you are also extremely familiar with. This will allow you to pick out minute differences.
> 
> Tom's failed to do this, so I find their results useless.
> 
> I believe that you're best off with a headphone setup.


Interesting.

The issue is, in order to change my sound setup, I'll have to do quite a bit of footwork. I used to run integrated ALC1150 with Logitech Z2300s, which I heard is considered to be blasphemous. Then I got Asus STX for $140 and then two KRK Rokit 6 G2(s) for $255 total. Subwoofer is still Logitehc's. That's about $400 spent on audio already. But moreover, any change in my audio setup and I have to sell the Krks and probably the entire Logitech set as well. There's a 600hd on sale for $300 on Amazon secondhand.

I want to try the thing before I buy too... I hope my local Best Buy (ha) or Frys has one for me to try. Doubt it. Don't know anybody with it either.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> The issue is, in order to change my sound setup, I'll have to do quite a bit of footwork. I used to run integrated ALC1150 with Logitech Z2300s, which I heard is considered to be blasphemous. Then I got Asus STX for $140 and then two KRK Rokit 6 G2(s) for $255 total. Subwoofer is still Logitehc's. That's about $400 spent on audio already. But moreover, any change in my audio setup and I have to sell the Krks and probably the entire Logitech set as well. There's a 600hd on sale for $300 on Amazon secondhand.
> 
> I want to try the thing before I buy too... I hope my local Best Buy (ha) or Frys has one for me to try. Doubt it. Don't know anybody with it either.


At that point, I would sell the logitech's, buy a subwoofer, and be done with it. The Rokit 6's are great. I'm not sure that the trade off, since you already have the speakers, would be worth it.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> At that point, I would sell the logitech's, buy a subwoofer, and be done with it. The Rokit 6's are great. I'm not sure that the trade off, since you already have the speakers, would be worth it.


Hmmmmmhmhmhm.

I was considering that. Not just because the Logitech speakers (sub included I suppose) are not that high grade. Me and my regular non-audio-focused friend sat down and listened to some tracks and the bass sounded nice, but one fun way to hear the sub in action is to turn off the Rokits and just hear the sub and the muffled-ness is over 9000.

The sound controller device thing (adjusting bass level and general loudness) is plugged into the sub and my Rokits are plugged into the sub. The sound controller is a bit damaged. It has to be placed at an angle for sound to come out of both Rokits. This is not the fault of the Rokits, I noticed this with the old regular Logitech speakers which have been replaced by the Rokits. That's annoying, but I noticed in some tracks, some parts of the track plays only on one speaker and not the other. This occurs only for the high frequency parts of the track and can only be observed in some particular tracks. It's annoying and I also think this is due to the sound controller plugged into the sub.

I still want to listen to the 600hd though, even if I don't get it, just to see what it's like. I've never been a real headphone fan... my limited past experience, my ears felt a little sensitive to the earphones or headphones. Maybe it's the volume but also maybe because the sound originates from so close to my ears? I don't know. Maybe it's not an issue anymore.

What price range should I be looked for for the sub? Maybe I'll look at the $250 on listed on the guide.

--

I went back and looked at the guide and I feel the guide could be made better if it includes some background info for the clueless. The first time I saw this guide I knew very little about higher end audio. Like maybe a pro vs con for headphone vs speakers or a spoiler section for different types of headphones. I know that passive speakers require an extra bit of hardware to get it working, but the guide doesn't mention why there are passive and powered speakers in the first place in terms of pros and cons.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Hmmmmmhmhmhm.
> 
> I was considering that. Not just because the Logitech speakers (sub included I suppose) are not that high grade. Me and my regular non-audio-focused friend sat down and listened to some tracks and the bass sounded nice, but one fun way to hear the sub in action is to turn off the Rokits and just hear the sub and the muffled-ness is over 9000.
> 
> The sound controller device thing (adjusting bass level and general loudness) is plugged into the sub and my Rokits are plugged into the sub. The sound controller is a bit damaged. It has to be placed at an angle for sound to come out of both Rokits. This is not the fault of the Rokits, I noticed this with the old regular Logitech speakers which have been replaced by the Rokits. That's annoying, but I noticed in some tracks, some parts of the track plays only on one speaker and not the other. This occurs only for the high frequency parts of the track and can only be observed in some particular tracks. It's annoying and I also think this is due to the sound controller plugged into the sub.
> 
> I still want to listen to the 600hd though, even if I don't get it, just to see what it's like. I've never been a real headphone fan... my limited past experience, my ears felt a little sensitive to the earphones or headphones. Maybe it's the volume but also maybe because the sound originates from so close to my ears? I don't know. Maybe it's not an issue anymore.
> 
> What price range should I be looked for for the sub? Maybe I'll look at the $250 on listed on the guide.
> 
> --
> I went back and looked at the guide and I feel the guide could be made better if it includes some background info for the clueless. The first time I saw this guide I knew very little about higher end audio. Like maybe a pro vs con for headphone vs speakers or a spoiler section for different types of headphones. I know that passive speakers require an extra bit of hardware to get it working, but the guide doesn't mention why there are passive and powered speakers in the first place in terms of pros and cons.


This is just a buying guide, a general audio guide would be good though.

I would definitely look into the Outlaw M8, it's $300. Subwoofers depend very much on your sound tastes and room characteristics. It might help to make your own post.


----------



## XKaan

I've been running Logitech Z-5500's for 7 years now, and it's time for a whole new setup.

In a perfect world with $1000 what would you guys recommend if I wanted 5.1? I have an office dedicated to my gaming rig...

In my basement I have a Yamaha receiver and a Polk 12" powered sub, tower speakers, center channel and surrounds. It sounds great, but it's huge. I'd like something as compact as possible but still puts out big sound.

The Swan systems look nice, but I'm thinking maybe I can do better with individual components piece-meal?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XKaan*
> 
> I've been running Logitech Z-5500's for 7 years now, and it's time for a whole new setup.
> 
> In a perfect world with $1000 what would you guys recommend if I wanted 5.1? I have an office dedicated to my gaming rig...
> 
> In my basement I have a Yamaha receiver and a Polk 12" powered sub, tower speakers, center channel and surrounds. It sounds great, but it's huge. I'd like something as compact as possible but still puts out big sound.
> 
> The Swan systems look nice, but I'm thinking maybe I can do better with individual components piece-meal?


Do you have any "old" parts available already, like receivers and such, or do you have to buy those as well?


----------



## XKaan

Would have to do this whole thing from scratch....


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XKaan*
> 
> Would have to do this whole thing from scratch....


Are you fine with buying used?


----------



## XKaan

Not as long as it is well taken care of equipment. I'm OCD so if it smells like cigarette smoke or something I'll lose sleep..lol


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XKaan*
> 
> Not as long as it is well taken care of equipment. I'm OCD so if it smells like cigarette smoke or something I'll lose sleep..lol


Funny you say that, a friend of mine bought a laptop off Craigslist. The person smoked like a chimney and she is allergic to smokey-dust, not sure why. But she turned the laptop on and started having a sinus/allergy attack.

Sometimes you gotta be careful about what you buy online that is used.


----------



## DF is BUSY

got my CAL2 and played with it for a few days now, it sounds very good but I have a problem. I want to use the in-line mic at my computer but creative only supplied a single cable for the headphones. After some research apparently I need a 3.5mm female to dual (one for mic and one for line out) 3.5mm male splitter.

I should plug my cans into the female head, then plug the splitter into the appropriate mic and line out jacks on my DG right? Am I correct?

can somebody link me to some? my google-fu seems to be horrible.


----------



## mikeaj

Might want to search 4 pin or TRRS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-4-Pin-Female-TRRS-to-2-Dual-Male-TRS-Plugs-Mic-Audio-Headphone-Adapter-/281276656177


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I bought a receiver from a smoker's home, the smell went away fast though.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Might want to search 4 pin or TRRS.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-4-Pin-Female-TRRS-to-2-Dual-Male-TRS-Plugs-Mic-Audio-Headphone-Adapter-/281276656177


do I have to get trss adapters? I found some simple female to dual male on amazxon and eBay but it doesn't mention anything about that.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Might want to search 4 pin or TRRS.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-4-Pin-Female-TRRS-to-2-Dual-Male-TRS-Plugs-Mic-Audio-Headphone-Adapter-/281276656177
> 
> 
> 
> do I have to get trss adapters? I found some simple female to dual male on amazxon and eBay but it doesn't mention anything about that.
Click to expand...

Those won't work. It will have to split the mic and sound separately.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Might want to search 4 pin or TRRS.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-4-Pin-Female-TRRS-to-2-Dual-Male-TRS-Plugs-Mic-Audio-Headphone-Adapter-/281276656177
> 
> 
> 
> do I have to get trss adapters? I found some simple female to dual male on amazxon and eBay but it doesn't mention anything about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those won't work. It will have to split the mic and sound separately.
Click to expand...

so basically the ebay product that mikeaj posted should work right?

what about this? = http://www.showmecables.com/product/iPhone-Head-Set-Breakout-Cable-3-5mm-TRRS-Jack-to-Dual-3-5mm-Stereo-Plug-6-IN.aspx

no problemo right?


----------



## DrGroove

Yeah that will work.


----------



## lb_felipe

DAC for speakers?

What do you recommend for speakers in general.

I know, receiver when speakers are passive, etc.

But what to use on desk with volume control or even preamp etc?


----------



## DF is BUSY

not sure where to put this, but I guess here is okay

*CAL! 2 (used for about a week) vs HD 598 (out the box)*



Spoiler: click to show



*comfort:*
-598 top of headband more comfortable, and even though the velour ear pads aren't broken in yet, there are already slightly more a lot more comfortable than the broken in pleather on my cal2

*bass:*
-cal2 is much more bassier
-a bass EQ'ed 598 still has a bit less bass than a stock cal2

*leak/isolation:*
-i consider cal2 semi-open despite the design, it does leak and doesn't isolate much
-598 leaks more/isolates less obviously, being an actual open back but it isn't piss poor in isolation as you may think

*aesthetics:*
-i find the 598 to be beautiful, simple, classy and the colors are unique
-the headband is really what makes the cal2 look a bit cheap

*sound:*
-not sure if 598 has more clarity due to lesser bass or because it actually is
-cal2's sound is more forward/in your face while 598 is more laid back and calmer
-vocals sound /clearer/crisper on 598, again not sure if due to less bass or whatever
-not sure why, but my cal2 seems more louder than the 598? both are using the same source, same settings, same cable even (could be the reason for my forward/in your face comment earlier)
-certain instruments sound better on the cal2
-after more listening to various things, cal2 sometimes seems more "congested" than 598
-cal2 is louder at lower volumes, impendence/sensitivity related?

*other thoughts:*
-for the price, I'm not 100% sure I can justify the extra cost of a 598 vs a cal2
-even being a complete audio beginner, I can kind of see why people who used 598s consider their sound "boring", honestly I do see it

I'm going to let these 598 burn in a bit overnight, and re-test again. will also test them in gaming as well.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> not sure where to put this, but I guess here is okay
> 
> *CAL! 2 (used for about a week) vs HD 598 (out the box)*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: click to show
> 
> 
> 
> *comfort:*
> 
> -598 top of headband more comfortable, and even though the velour ear pads aren't broken in yet, there are already slightly more a lot more comfortable than the broken in pleather on my cal2
> 
> *bass:*
> 
> -cal2 is much more bassier
> 
> -a bass EQ'ed 598 still has a bit less bass than a stock cal2
> 
> *leak/isolation:*
> 
> -i consider cal2 semi-open despite the design, it does leak and doesn't isolate much
> 
> -598 leaks more/isolates less obviously, being an actual open back but it isn't piss poor in isolation as you may think
> 
> *aesthetics:*
> 
> -i find the 598 to be beautiful, simple, classy and the colors are unique
> 
> -the headband is really what makes the cal2 look a bit cheap
> 
> *sound:*
> 
> -not sure if 598 has more clarity due to lesser bass or because it actually is
> 
> -cal2's sound is more forward/in your face while 598 is more laid back and calmer
> 
> -vocals sound /clearer/crisper on 598, again not sure if due to less bass or whatever
> 
> -not sure why, but my cal2 seems more louder than the 598? both are using the same source, same settings, same cable even (could be the reason for my forward/in your face comment earlier)
> 
> -certain instruments sound better on the cal2
> 
> -after more listening to various things, cal2 sometimes seems more "congested" than 598
> 
> -cal2 is louder at lower volumes, impendence/sensitivity related?
> 
> *other thoughts:*
> 
> -for the price, I'm not 100% sure I can justify the extra cost of a 598 vs a cal2
> 
> -even being a complete audio beginner, I can kind of see why people who used 598s consider their sound "boring", honestly I do see it
> 
> I'm going to let these 598 burn in a bit overnight, and re-test again. will also test them in gaming as well.


A lot of what is causing you to think that the 598's are clearer is the fact that they are open, since the sound doesn't bounce around inside as much, it is more precise. This also accounts for the vocal balance (at least some of it) and the calm, laid back sound.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> A lot of what is causing you to think that the 598's are clearer is the fact that they are open, since the sound doesn't bounce around inside as much, it is more precise. This also accounts for the vocal balance (at least some of it) and the calm, laid back sound.


ah i see what you mean.

i like the more forward/in your face sound of the cal 2 but i can appreciate the precise sound of the 598. i might even say that the cal 2 suits my tastes better as of right now but I really want comfort and the 598 just dominates the cal in that. 1 of these pairs is going back to amazon, a hard decision incoming









though i am glad i at least am able to experience both types of cans and got to compare them. the audio world sure is a fun one to be in, heh.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> A lot of what is causing you to think that the 598's are clearer is the fact that they are open, since the sound doesn't bounce around inside as much, it is more precise. This also accounts for the vocal balance (at least some of it) and the calm, laid back sound.


The dynamic drivers are also angled versus most conventional dynamic headphone drivers. That needs to be taken into consideration since high-end headphones emphasize an angled headphone driver.

For example my Beyerdynamic T1 and my HD800 both have an angled driver design. Audeze designs have an angled driver even though it uses orthodynamic drivers.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> The dynamic drivers are also angled versus most conventional dynamic headphone drivers. That needs to be taken into consideration since high-end headphones emphasize an angled headphone driver.
> 
> For example my Beyerdynamic T1 and my HD800 both have an angled driver design. Audeze designs have an angled driver even though it uses orthodynamic drivers.


What does the angled driver do?


----------



## Jolly Roger

Has anyone seen these before? LINK

I was going to go for the antlion mic and Superlux HD668Bs, but saw these. What are the odds of this being a good headset?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Has anyone seen these before? LINK
> 
> I was going to go for the antlion mic and Superlux HD668Bs, but saw these. What are the odds of this being a good headset?


Basically that is Superlux HD631 with the added mic.
There should be Superlux HMC681 coming soon, which is HD681Evo with the added mic.


----------



## Jolly Roger

I noticed the HMC681 on the superlux website. Those would be nice to have. Any body know when those will be available in the US?


----------



## musicPC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I noticed the HMC681 on the superlux website. Those would be nice to have. Any body know when those will be available in the US?


I emailed Superlux about this a few days ago, but no response so far. One of my Asian friends is bringing a pair hopefully.


----------



## Krulani

I'd like to preface this by saying I know literally nothing about quality sound. I did read the entire OP and have a few questions.

1.) I'm buying the Asus Maximus VI Impact that has a sound card in the form of a "daughter-board" called SupremeFX. Is this considered a sound card, or is it just marketing-speak for onboard sound? If it IS a soundcard, yay! How is the quality? That brings me to my next question...

2.) I'd really like to upgrade all of my sound-related peripherals if the SupremeFX is indeed a sound card (it would be the first i've ever used). With the SupremeFX, do i need/want a headphone amp to go with it? I was unsure if that was something you need in addition to a sound card, or if that soundcard WAS a heaphone amp. Confused.

3.) Assuming a headphone amp is necessary, will this list of items offer me a great first experience into the crazy new world of quality sound? And are these items compatible, and inclusive of everything i need?

-Soundcard: Asus SupremeFX, included with the Maximus VI Impact as a "daughter-board"
-Headset: Audio Technica AD900X
-Headphone Amp: Schiit Magni [Solid State]
-Mic: Blue Yeti
-Pop filter
-Shock mount

Thanks in advance for any help rendered. I appreciate all insight.


----------



## THEStorm

Hey guys, I'm looking for a bit of advice.

I am looking to improve on my audio equipment. I enjoy all types of music (except country). I use my computer mostly for gaming, and everyday activities (photo editing, watching movies, etc). I will be using the on board sound from my motherboard (Gigabyte Sniper M5) which has "Creative Sound Core 3D" with a changeable OP Amp (whether or not that makes much of a difference over standard on board I'm not sure) and due to the internal setup of my computer I would prefer an external setup (my GPU covers my only PCI-E slot that I can use for a sound card).

So I have access to a Sony receiver (It's a bit older, from mid 2000's, but its 7.1 700W with digital inputs) that I am not 100% sure if it works, so at the moment this is all hypothetical but lets just pretend at this point it works (still have a solder on a new power plug). Would you recommend just grabbing a set of passive bookshelf speakers (like the Infinity Primus P153), grab a decent set of headphones (not sure exactly what yet) and call it a day?

Or should I look into getting a DAC, Headphone AMP and a set of passive speakers (along with headphones, need those either way)?

I'm pretty sure that the second setup would be better for a computer setup however it would also be much more costly. I know that receivers are a do everything but not one thing well but for my purposes will this suffice?

Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> I'd like to preface this by saying I know literally nothing about quality sound. I did read the entire OP and have a few questions.
> 
> 1.) I'm buying the Asus Maximus VI Impact that has a sound card in the form of a "daughter-board" called SupremeFX. Is this considered a sound card, or is it just marketing-speak for onboard sound? If it IS a soundcard, yay! How is the quality? That brings me to my next question...
> 
> 2.) I'd really like to upgrade all of my sound-related peripherals if the SupremeFX is indeed a sound card (it would be the first i've ever used). With the SupremeFX, do i need/want a headphone amp to go with it? I was unsure if that was something you need in addition to a sound card, or if that soundcard WAS a heaphone amp. Confused.
> 
> 3.) Assuming a headphone amp is necessary, will this list of items offer me a great first experience into the crazy new world of quality sound? And are these items compatible, and inclusive of everything i need?
> 
> -Soundcard: Asus SupremeFX, included with the Maximus VI Impact as a "daughter-board"
> -Headset: Audio Technica AD900X
> -Headphone Amp: Schiit Magni [Solid State]
> -Mic: Blue Yeti
> -Pop filter
> -Shock mount
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help rendered. I appreciate all insight.


The Supreme FX is still onboard, as a sound card is a separate item. It is better by a bit than standard realtek, but you are much better off getting an external DAC like a Schiit Modi. The SupremeFX has a headphone amp which would be better than a phone or a standard onboard sound chip, but the Magni would be a big improvement. That being said, I would get the Magni before getting the Modi, as it probably will make a bigger improvement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking for a bit of advice.
> 
> I am looking to improve on my audio equipment. I enjoy all types of music (except country). I use my computer mostly for gaming, and everyday activities (photo editing, watching movies, etc). I will be using the on board sound from my motherboard (Gigabyte Sniper M5) which has "Creative Sound Core 3D" with a changeable OP Amp (whether or not that makes much of a difference over standard on board I'm not sure) and due to the internal setup of my computer I would prefer an external setup (my GPU covers my only PCI-E slot that I can use for a sound card).
> 
> So I have access to a Sony receiver (It's a bit older, from mid 2000's, but its 7.1 700W with digital inputs) that I am not 100% sure if it works, so at the moment this is all hypothetical but lets just pretend at this point it works (still have a solder on a new power plug). Would you recommend just grabbing a set of passive bookshelf speakers (like the Infinity Primus P153), grab a decent set of headphones (not sure exactly what yet) and call it a day?
> 
> Or should I look into getting a DAC, Headphone AMP and a set of passive speakers (along with headphones, need those either way)?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the second setup would be better for a computer setup however it would also be much more costly. I know that receivers are a do everything but not one thing well but for my purposes will this suffice?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated!


It would probably be the better value to get the receiver, grab some bookshelf speakers (and a sub maybe), headphones and later add a soundcard or DAC. The onboard sound is only a bit better than standard realtek on that board. Maybe later on you can get a dedicated headphone amp, but the receiver would work quite well for now.

This all depends on how good the receiver is.


----------



## THEStorm

Sony STR-DE898 ( http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vkfdhskMnWV/p_158STD898B/Sony-STR-DE898.html )

That's the receiver that I have sitting around that potentially works.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> Sony STR-DE898 ( http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vkfdhskMnWV/p_158STD898B/Sony-STR-DE898.html )
> 
> That's the receiver that I have sitting around that potentially works.


How much is your total budget?


----------



## Krulani

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> The Supreme FX is still onboard, as a sound card is a separate item. It is better by a bit than standard realtek, but you are much better off getting an external DAC like a Schiit Modi. The SupremeFX has a headphone amp which would be better than a phone or a standard onboard sound chip, but the Magni would be a big improvement. That being said, I would get the Magni before getting the Modi, as it probably will make a bigger improvement.


Bummer! So without a sound card it's all moot?







What does the DAC do differently from a soundcard. I'm not sure I understand what each piece does. Are they substitutes for one another, or does one enhance the other, or do I need a soundcard+DAC+amp to get anywhere?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> I'd like to preface this by saying I know literally nothing about quality sound. I did read the entire OP and have a few questions.
> 
> 1.) I'm buying the Asus Maximus VI Impact that has a sound card in the form of a "daughter-board" called SupremeFX. Is this considered a sound card, or is it just marketing-speak for onboard sound? If it IS a soundcard, yay! How is the quality? That brings me to my next question...
> 
> 2.) I'd really like to upgrade all of my sound-related peripherals if the SupremeFX is indeed a sound card (it would be the first i've ever used). With the SupremeFX, do i need/want a headphone amp to go with it? I was unsure if that was something you need in addition to a sound card, or if that soundcard WAS a heaphone amp. Confused.
> 
> 3.) Assuming a headphone amp is necessary, will this list of items offer me a great first experience into the crazy new world of quality sound? And are these items compatible, and inclusive of everything i need?
> 
> -Soundcard: Asus SupremeFX, included with the Maximus VI Impact as a "daughter-board"
> -Headset: Audio Technica AD900X
> -Headphone Amp: Schiit Magni [Solid State]
> -Mic: Blue Yeti
> -Pop filter
> -Shock mount
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help rendered. I appreciate all insight.


Your predicted setup isn't a bad first step. The onboard sound will be beaten out by a dedicated DAC, but in your case, the amp will be a better first step. However, I'm not really sure how dependent your headphones will really be for an amp. It wouldn't hurt to get the amp and give yourself some room for future upgrades to even better headphones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking for a bit of advice.
> 
> I am looking to improve on my audio equipment. I enjoy all types of music (except country). I use my computer mostly for gaming, and everyday activities (photo editing, watching movies, etc). I will be using the on board sound from my motherboard (Gigabyte Sniper M5) which has "Creative Sound Core 3D" with a changeable OP Amp (whether or not that makes much of a difference over standard on board I'm not sure) and due to the internal setup of my computer I would prefer an external setup (my GPU covers my only PCI-E slot that I can use for a sound card).
> 
> So I have access to a Sony receiver (It's a bit older, from mid 2000's, but its 7.1 700W with digital inputs) that I am not 100% sure if it works, so at the moment this is all hypothetical but lets just pretend at this point it works (still have a solder on a new power plug). Would you recommend just grabbing a set of passive bookshelf speakers (like the Infinity Primus P153), grab a decent set of headphones (not sure exactly what yet) and call it a day?
> 
> Or should I look into getting a DAC, Headphone AMP and a set of passive speakers (along with headphones, need those either way)?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the second setup would be better for a computer setup however it would also be much more costly. I know that receivers are a do everything but not one thing well but for my purposes will this suffice?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated!


Don't forget the option of DAC, Amp with pre-amps, and powered speakers as well. Might not be to your suiting/liking, but it's an option







. Also, it doesn't hurt to try out the receiver. General rule of thumb is that modern day receivers aren't as great for their headphone portions as vintage ones, but free is free. Just test it out and see how it sounds to you, first. You may still want to go with a DAC also, however.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> The Supreme FX is still onboard, as a sound card is a separate item. It is better by a bit than standard realtek, but you are much better off getting an external DAC like a Schiit Modi. The SupremeFX has a headphone amp which would be better than a phone or a standard onboard sound chip, but the Magni would be a big improvement. That being said, I would get the Magni before getting the Modi, as it probably will make a bigger improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> Bummer! So without a sound card it's all moot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does the DAC do differently from a soundcard. I'm not sure I understand what each piece does. Are they substitutes for one another, or does one enhance the other, or do I need a soundcard+DAC+amp to get anywhere?
Click to expand...

a DAC is what converts digital audio to analog audio (so we can hear it)

a amp is just a device that can push power to your audio device(s) i.e a headphone *amp*lifier

a sound card is a device that contains both.

now you can go for the conveniency and more budget friendly approach with a decent sound card or you can opt for a dedicated DAC and a dedicated amp which may give you better results (ears and listen perception varies from person to person) albeit at a higher cost.


----------



## THEStorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> How much is your total budget?


My budget is fairly flexible at the moment, would just like something with good value (that's why I was looking at the Infinity Primus P153, it is in the recommended list as good value, when looking I found them on Amazon for $75 a piece). As for the headphones Probably about $200, but I am in Canada. If it weren't for the receiver I would do it more so in steps to help keep the costs down a bit. And as long as it is in good shape I am not opposed to going used.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Your predicted setup isn't a bad first step. The onboard sound will be beaten out by a dedicated DAC, but in your case, the amp will be a better first step. However, I'm not really sure how dependent your headphones will really be for an amp. It wouldn't hurt to get the amp and give yourself some room for future upgrades to even better headphones.
> Don't forget the option of DAC, Amp with pre-amps, and powered speakers as well. Might not be to your suiting/liking, but it's an option
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Also, it doesn't hurt to try out the receiver. General rule of thumb is that modern day receivers aren't as great for their headphone portions as vintage ones, but free is free. Just test it out and see how it sounds to you, first. You may still want to go with a DAC also, however.


Oops I ment to write Active with my DAC, and AMP. Was thinking of powered speakers there, just wrote passive for some reason.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> My budget is fairly flexible at the moment, would just like something with good value (that's why I was looking at the Infinity Primus P153, it is in the recommended list as good value, when looking I found them on Amazon for $75 a piece). As for the headphones Probably about $200, but I am in Canada. If it weren't for the receiver I would do it more so in steps to help keep the costs down a bit. And as long as it is in good shape I am not opposed to going used.
> Oops I ment to write Active with my DAC, and AMP. Was thinking of powered speakers there, just wrote passive for some reason.


Yeah, I think it's a reasonable option; especially if you're tight on space. Not everyone can fit a receiver in their room/office, let alone on their desk.


----------



## Krulani

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> a DAC is what converts digital audio to analog audio (so we can hear it)
> a amp is just a device that can push power to your audio device(s) i.e a headphone *amp*lifier
> 
> a sound card is a device that contains both.
> 
> now you can go for the conveniency and more budget friendly approach with a decent sound card or you can opt for a dedicated DAC and a dedicated amp which may give you better results (ears and listen perception varies from person to person) albeit at a higher cost.


This is exactly what I was looking for, a nice breakdown of what each does. I couldn't figure out how each piece related to the other. Based on this if I understood correctly, since a SupremeFX is the best i can do (ITX board) for a sound card...I can substitute using that by buying a DAC and a headphone amp (I don't mind buying both) to drive headphones. That's my best option for quality sound. Right? I hope so, I'm really trying to figure this out lol. I'm trying to build my dream rig (woohoo!): Computer components, display, audio stuff, keyboard, mouse, the works.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> This is exactly what I was looking for, a nice breakdown of what each does. I couldn't figure out how each piece related to the other. Based on this if I understood correctly, since a SupremeFX is the best i can do (ITX board) for a sound card...I can substitute using that by buying a DAC and a headphone amp (I don't mind buying both) to drive headphones. That's my best option for quality sound. Right? I hope so, I'm really trying to figure this out lol. I'm trying to build my dream rig (woohoo!): Computer components, display, audio stuff, keyboard, mouse, the works.


Yes, your understanding is correct. Unless it is an Amp/DAC combo, you cannot use a DAC without an amp. A dedicated DAC and a dedicated Amp is a much better option than your onboard solution, though if your onboard solution is absolutely necessary, it will do. A good starting point is the Schiit Modi (DAC) and Magni (Amp). You could also substitute the Magni with a Vali if you can foot the price and crave the more 'musical' type of sound it may offer you.


----------



## SinX7

Would you guys recommend the Aune T1 or the Magni/Modi?

Thanks!


----------



## Krulani

Pez, DF is BUSY, and OP, thank you SOO much for walking me through this. I now have a basic understanding and can purchase with confidence. +rep for all of you. Thanks again!


----------



## omairsr

Hi everyone. I'm looking to improve my sound experience, one step at a time. I am interested in purchasing the HD 380 pros, but after some research, I realized that my onboard sound card may not be enough for them. I currently have a Dell Optiplex 755 (a workstation computer; I know, I know). The headphones that I'm using are a cheap pair, but here's their website page nonetheless: http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?m=p5&cid=221&scid=221&id=442

After looking at this thread and Simca's "Differences between On Board and a Sound Card" thread, I am considering investing in the Asus Xonar DG mentioned in the opening post. What I want to know is: *Will the sound quality I get see a noticeable improvement even with the cheap old headphones I have now?* Because if yes, then I may put off the HD 380s until a bit later when I have a more flexible budget.


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Anyone have some soundcard recommendations for a Sennheiser HD 598? Price isn't too much of an issue but I'd like it to be between $75 - $125. So far I'm leaning towards a Sound Blaster Z like the OP recommends.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> Hi everyone. I'm looking to improve my sound experience, one step at a time. I am interested in purchasing the HD 380 pros, but after some research, I realized that my onboard sound card may not be enough for them. I currently have a Dell Optiplex 755 (a workstation computer; I know, I know). The headphones that I'm using are a cheap pair, but here's their website page nonetheless: http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?m=p5&cid=221&scid=221&id=442
> 
> After looking at this thread and Simca's "Differences between On Board and a Sound Card" thread, I am considering investing in the Asus Xonar DG mentioned in the opening post. What I want to know is: *Will the sound quality I get see a noticeable improvement even with the cheap old headphones I have now?* Because if yes, then I may put off the HD 380s until a bit later when I have a more flexible budget.


I recommend the headphones first. Those headphones are super easy to drive and actually sound quite good out of a phone, even. Yes, a sound card will probably make an improvement, but headphones are always the better investment to make first. It would be well worth it to grab the headphones first, and then later on when you've saved up, grab a sound card or a DAC and amp.


----------



## omairsr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I recommend the headphones first. Those headphones are super easy to drive and actually sound quite good out of a phone, even. Yes, a sound card will probably make an improvement, but headphones are always the better investment to make first. It would be well worth it to grab the headphones first, and then later on when you've saved up, grab a sound card or a DAC and amp.


The reason I was going for the sound card first was because it was cheaper and the Onboard vs Soundcard thread suggested that a sound card is more important; are you implying that I'd see a greater improvement with the headphones alone?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I recommend the headphones first. Those headphones are super easy to drive and actually sound quite good out of a phone, even. Yes, a sound card will probably make an improvement, but headphones are always the better investment to make first. It would be well worth it to grab the headphones first, and then later on when you've saved up, grab a sound card or a DAC and amp.
> 
> 
> 
> The reason I was going for the sound card first was because it was cheaper and the Onboard vs Soundcard thread suggested that a sound card is more important; are you implying that I'd see a greater improvement with the headphones alone?
Click to expand...

Yeah the HD380's are a great pair of headphones and it will give you a bigger improvement than a sound card. The Xonar DG is only a step above onboard anyways. It is better, but not as big as a headphone swap.


----------



## omairsr

I see. This is interesting.

I feel like you guys are saying the opposite of what the OP of the thread tells me, though. Simca seems to be totally against onboard sound. Is it just that they're writing with higher priced headphones etc in mind?


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I would have to agree with simca. Onboard sucks.


----------



## phillyd

We all agree that onboard sucks, but headphones make the biggest difference. I would wait a bit to get a Hifimediy Sabre DAC for like $50. An analogy: should I update to a blu-ray player first or should I get an HDTV first to replace an old 4:3 CRT? You should definitely get the new tv first, because without the new tv, even DVD's are going to be worse


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> I would have to agree with simca. Onboard sucks.


The reason onboard is not preferred when using High fidelity audio equipment is due to a high THD-N ratio. If motherboard makers could actually improve the THD-N ratio and performance onboard would be a more competitive and viable alternative.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> What does the angled driver do?


Many things. Some of those are: soundstage , positioning/placement. What it does is to place the music slightly off-center from the side of the head and more towards the front due to the angled drivers and to produce more of a 3D/Surround effect. Think of a non-angled design as placing music in the head or producing music from the side whereas an angled-design produces/places music more in front of the head.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> Hi everyone. I'm looking to improve my sound experience, one step at a time. I am interested in purchasing the HD 380 pros, but after some research, I realized that my onboard sound card may not be enough for them. I currently have a Dell Optiplex 755 (a workstation computer; I know, I know). The headphones that I'm using are a cheap pair, but here's their website page nonetheless: http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?m=p5&cid=221&scid=221&id=442
> 
> After looking at this thread and Simca's "Differences between On Board and a Sound Card" thread, I am considering investing in the Asus Xonar DG mentioned in the opening post. What I want to know is: *Will the sound quality I get see a noticeable improvement even with the cheap old headphones I have now?* Because if yes, then I may put off the HD 380s until a bit later when I have a more flexible budget.


While I can see what Phillyd is trying to say and he's not entirely wrong, but it's also dependent on what the source of your media is. High quality music is a crucial part too. Many people may think that getting good headphones or a DAC will instantly make any music better, but a lot of the times low quality rips end up sounding worse. You don't even need to spend much on headphones to notice it as long as it's a good quality set.

Now if you're using some high quality music then onboard is obviously going to be a limiting factor. While the DG is a step above onboard I would go for something a bit better if you can afford. I agree that you should get the headphones first but you're going to be severely limited until you get a better DAC/Soundcard. It's like playing a DVD on DVD player with upconversion on an HDTV. It looks better, but the quality isn't there like a Bluray.

And hello to another fellow Fort Worthian.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm*
> 
> The reason onboard is not preferred when using High fidelity audio equipment is due to a high THD-N ratio. If motherboard makers could actually improve the THD-N ratio and performance onboard would be a more competitive and viable alternative.


That's not it at all. While THD+N does play a part in audio equipment it's not the most limiting factor of onboard. Most of them have a high SNR and a THD+N of lower than .01%. An SNR above 90dB is preffered and THD+N at 1% should be inaudible. The design of the whole audio circuitry isn't there. It's not as complex as designated DACs. Remember that it doesn't just do stereo DAC, but also up to 8 channels DAC. As well as ADC conversion in a small area of the motherboard. Some motherboard manufacturers may improve upon it by adding a designated daughter board, will help with noise isolation, but also opamps, audio grade capacitors, extra shielding, headphone amplifiers, etc. But in the end if they are still using a Realtek codec then it's just more of a gimmick to improve SQ.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> The reason I was going for the sound card first was because it was cheaper and the Onboard vs Soundcard thread suggested that a sound card is more important; are you implying that I'd see a greater improvement with the headphones alone?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Yeah the HD380's are a great pair of headphones and it will give you a bigger improvement than a sound card. The Xonar DG is only a step above onboard anyways. It is better, but not as big as a headphone swap.


Exactly this.

Onboard really isn't as good as a sound card will be; but you're going to get more 'instant gratification' by purchasing the headphones first. The best part about the 380s is that they will be just adequate running out of a sound card that you eventually choose (or that you get if you decide on a sound card first).

It's hard to make a list like this, but Simca has done a good job of it. However, don't get too bent on semantics. Someone else mentioned the quality of your music being important, and they are correct. 256 AAC/MP3 and up is the 'recommendation'. This just means to get rid of those crappy LimeWire tracks from years ago







.

Just remember:

Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.

It's hard to say an amp or DAC is more important than one another, as for different headphones it can vary. In your case, though, the DAC (sound card) is more important; but you'll be gaining an 'amp' as well (sound card is an all-in-one solution).


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Exactly this.
> 
> Onboard really isn't as good as a sound card will be; but you're going to get more 'instant gratification' by purchasing the headphones first. The best part about the 380s is that they will be just adequate running out of a sound card that you eventually choose (or that you get if you decide on a sound card first).
> 
> It's hard to make a list like this, but Simca has done a good job of it. However, don't get too bent on semantics. Someone else mentioned the quality of your music being important, and they are correct. 256 AAC/MP3 and up is the 'recommendation'. *This just means to get rid of those crappy LimeWire tracks from years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*
> 
> Just remember:
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.
> dypC,sy


NEVVAAAAA!
I will merely duplicate them and keep them for sentimental value!
Oh limewire how I miss you so. I was so young and naive, you gave my family PC so many viruses but I still carried on using you...


----------



## omairsr

Thanks a lot for all the help, everyone. I'll be getting those headphones as soon the opportunity presents itself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Just remember:
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.


Thankfully, I started caring about music quality some time ago. Most of my stuff is FLAC or 320kbps MP3.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> NEVVAAAAA!
> I will merely duplicate them and keep them for sentimental value!
> Oh limewire how I miss you so. I was so young and naive, you gave my family PC so many viruses but I still carried on using you...


Totally! I still have the original MP3 of In The End that I download all those years ago.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> Thanks a lot for all the help, everyone. I'll be getting those headphones as soon the opportunity presents itself.
> Thankfully, I started caring about music quality some time ago. Most of my stuff is FLAC or 320kbps MP3.
> Totally! I still have the original MP3 of In The End that I download all those years ago.


Good on you







.

Good luck with the purchase!


----------



## Krulani

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.


Where would one aquire quality music files legally? I'm assuming Spotify is a no?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Where would one aquire quality music files legally? I'm assuming Spotify is a no?
Click to expand...

It costs money.

Best way is CD's, you can get great quality rips off of them, and you can get whole albums for just a few dollars. Going to a half priced books or a music exchange can find you great CD's for extremely cheap.

Spotify, Pandora are no. Soundcloud is great for a lot of artists. Look for 320kbps or VBR (variable bit-rate) for MP3, and FLAC is the most common lossless format. 256kbps is usually sufficient for a budget setup, but I'd recommend getting 320kbps if possible.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Where would one aquire quality music files legally? I'm assuming Spotify is a no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It costs money.
> 
> Best way is CD's, you can get great quality rips off of them, and you can get whole albums for just a few dollars. Going to a half priced books or a music exchange can find you great CD's for extremely cheap.
> 
> Spotify, Pandora are no. Soundcloud is great for a lot of artists. Look for 320kbps or VBR (variable bit-rate) for MP3, and FLAC is the most common lossless format. 256kbps is usually sufficient for a budget setup, but I'd recommend getting 320kbps if possible.
Click to expand...

I think my lowest quality song is 114 VBR or 128k


----------



## bigkahuna360

Any recommendations for a 10" sub that you can feel more than hear? (Preferably around $100)


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I think my lowest quality song is 114 VBR or 128k


PFFTTTT

My lowest quality file is Motteke! Sailor ***u! at 16 bit 44.1k


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quality of Music > Headphones > DAC/amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Where would one aquire quality music files legally? I'm assuming Spotify is a no?
Click to expand...

"Quality of music" is kind of vague. I don't think we're talking about the actual musical content, but I guess that would be first for enjoyment, huh?

As for sound quality, the quality / transparency (or lack of it) of the encoding isn't the same as quality of the recording and mastering. Most releases just sound like various levels of junk, and there's nothing much you can do about it. You can't often can't acquire better versions anywhere.

Past the lower bitrates, modern lossy encoding is fairly good by most standards unless you've trained yourself to spot all the differences. The degrading effect of this approximation of a representation is usually mild compared to the usual loudness warz'd processing by the studio.

But yeah, as suggested earlier, if you want higher quality encodes, buying used CDs is the way to go. Rip yourself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Any recommendations for a 10" sub that you can feel more than hear? (Preferably around $100)


You're going to hear say 50+ Hz (very roughly) a decent amount no matter the device producing it. To get the tones you really feel more than hear, you're going to need very low extension at decent volumes and without too much distortion and then sound playing that actually uses those frequencies.

To get the sub to not produce stuff that you're hearing so much, you'd just need to set the crossover lower I guess... good luck on getting the sub to produce the lowest subbass though. I don't think that's happening in a 10" sub or around $100.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Any recommendations for a 10" sub that you can feel more than hear? (Preferably around $100)
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to hear say 50+ Hz (very roughly) a decent amount no matter the device producing it. To get the tones you really feel more than hear, you're going to need very low extension at decent volumes and without too much distortion and then sound playing that actually uses those frequencies.
> 
> To get the sub to not produce stuff that you're hearing so much, you'd just need to set the crossover lower I guess... good luck on getting the sub to produce the lowest subbass though. I don't think that's happening in a 10" sub or around $100.
Click to expand...

I was just reading up on what sub I should get and was told to go with a 10" since I have 6" speakers. I can go a bit over if that helps at all.

And I was worried you'd say something like that.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krulani*
> 
> Where would one aquire quality music files legally? I'm assuming Spotify is a no?


I think a lot of times it depends on the type of music. Spotify for it's price is great, and I will address a fix in detail in the second part of this post. If you're looking for lossless, it's harder to find; but 256 MP3/AAC can be acquired from Google Play, Amazon MP3 Store, and iTunes; just pick the lesser of evils in your eyes







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> It costs money.
> 
> Best way is CD's, you can get great quality rips off of them, and you can get whole albums for just a few dollars. Going to a half priced books or a music exchange can find you great CD's for extremely cheap.
> 
> Spotify, Pandora are no. Soundcloud is great for a lot of artists. Look for 320kbps or VBR (variable bit-rate) for MP3, and FLAC is the most common lossless format. 256kbps is usually sufficient for a budget setup, but I'd recommend getting 320kbps if possible.


Spotify is actually quite good as far as quality tracks. They use 256-320 for PC/Laptop streaming, and OGG Vorbis for mobile streaming. Quite good actually; and a big step ahead of Pandora from the last time I've used it.


----------



## BoredErica

Loooool.

Although I can tell a difference between Logitech z2300s compared to Rokit 6 G2s, I cannot really tell a difference between onboard Realtek 1150 vs Asus STX Essence. And ABXing FLAC vs 320kbps MP3 is even more difficult for me.

I'm such a bad person.









I want to try out Sennheiser HD 600 to see what it's like. Problem is, nobody has one to try out! Whopee!!!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> I think my lowest quality song is 114 VBR or 128k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PFFTTTT
> 
> My lowest quality file is Motteke! Sailor ***u! at 16 bit 44.1k
Click to expand...

Whhhherrrreee did you get it at that high quality >_>


----------



## tjangel07

The 681 EVOs have more bass than the 668B. You might wanna update that in the main post.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Whhhherrrreee did you get it at that high quality >_>


Special edition bluray rip


----------



## Atomagenesis

After I got audiophile gear, I had a new-found appreciation for my CD's gathering dust. I refuse to download any MP3 lower than 256kbps, and even then I'm reluctant unless it's just a song I am having trouble finding. I usually get lossless or 320kbps.

People think you can't hear the difference between low bitrate and high, they're obviouslyy not listening to reason or logic or care.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis*
> 
> After I got audiophile gear, I had a new-found appreciation for my CD's gathering dust. I refuse to download any MP3 lower than 256kbps, and even then I'm reluctant unless it's just a song I am having trouble finding. I usually get lossless or 320kbps.
> 
> People think you can't hear the difference between low bitrate and high, they're obviouslyy not listening to reason or logic or care.


Well, after a certain point it's pointless, obviously.


----------



## phillyd

Human ears can't hear more than about 20,000 different sounds per second. Or in other words, your ears accept new sounds at about 20KHz. 44.1KHz audio is considered by many to be mathematically unbeatable due to the fact that it allocats about 22KHz to each channel, which is more than enough. However, I don't know that the assumption that going higher wouldn't be an improvement. Like maybe sometimes your ear kind of misses the sound since there is only just enough? Idk, kinda reminds me of V-Sync making things just a bit choppy.

I've never noticed an improvement past 44.1KHz. I have some 96KHz rips but that's just what people like to rip vinyl at.

Any suggestions for something to handle crossover to my speakers? I'd like to run a device with volume control and crossover for both the speakers and sub if possible, because I'd have to split the source to the sub and speakers if I used crossover filters.


----------



## silvrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Human ears can't hear more than about 20,000 different sounds per second. Or in other words, your ears accept new sounds at about 20KHz. 44.1KHz audio is considered by many to be mathematically unbeatable due to the fact that it allocats about 22KHz to each channel, which is more than enough. However, I don't know that the assumption that going higher wouldn't be an improvement. Like maybe sometimes your ear kind of misses the sound since there is only just enough? Idk, kinda reminds me of V-Sync making things just a bit choppy.
> 
> I've never noticed an improvement past 44.1KHz. I have some 96KHz rips but that's just what people like to rip vinyl at.
> 
> Any suggestions for something to handle crossover to my speakers? I'd like to run a device with volume control and crossover for both the speakers and sub if possible, because I'd have to split the source to the sub and speakers if I used crossover filters.


Have you thought of using a DSP? Stereo in and stereo out + the sub. Run the same crossover for the L & R and set another for the sub. Some volume control on the way into the DSP. Thats assuming you are willing to DIY, not aware of a turn key option.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silvrr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Human ears can't hear more than about 20,000 different sounds per second. Or in other words, your ears accept new sounds at about 20KHz. 44.1KHz audio is considered by many to be mathematically unbeatable due to the fact that it allocats about 22KHz to each channel, which is more than enough. However, I don't know that the assumption that going higher wouldn't be an improvement. Like maybe sometimes your ear kind of misses the sound since there is only just enough? Idk, kinda reminds me of V-Sync making things just a bit choppy.
> 
> I've never noticed an improvement past 44.1KHz. I have some 96KHz rips but that's just what people like to rip vinyl at.
> 
> Any suggestions for something to handle crossover to my speakers? I'd like to run a device with volume control and crossover for both the speakers and sub if possible, because I'd have to split the source to the sub and speakers if I used crossover filters.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you thought of using a DSP? Stereo in and stereo out + the sub. Run the same crossover for the L & R and set another for the sub. Some volume control on the way into the DSP. Thats assuming you are willing to DIY, not aware of a turn key option.
Click to expand...

DSP? Can you give me an example?


----------



## Loktar Ogar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tjangel07*
> 
> The 681 EVOs have more bass than the 668B. You might wanna update that in the main post.


I second to this. I currently have the EVOs and had the 668Bs and sold it because i don't to want more than one HP with same brand... Also, i think the EVOs are now much expensive than 668Bs.


----------



## silvrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> DSP? Can you give me an example?


http://www.minidsp.com/


----------



## preston.murrell

Well i Just bought my first sound card based on this threads advice i got a xonar ds for 12 bucks!







cant wait till it gets here to try it


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *preston.murrell*
> 
> Well i Just bought my first sound card based on this threads advice i got a xonar ds for 12 bucks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cant wait till it gets here to try it


a DS for 12 bucks? nice pickup!


----------



## SinX7

Hope to see my Aune T1 from Massdrop soon. Been waiting for those. Finally some thing good! Jumped from the Asus DGX, and gonna pair it with my HD 558 for gaming and music.

Anyone got a recommendation for a better Tube? I heard the one that comes with the Aune T1 is alright.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SinX7*
> 
> Hope to see my Aune T1 from Massdrop soon. Been waiting for those. Finally some thing good! Jumped from the Asus DGX, and gonna pair it with my HD 558 for gaming and music.
> 
> Anyone got a recommendation for a better Tube? I heard the one that comes with the Aune T1 is alright.


The one included with the ones for Massdrop have the upgraded tube, but there are better ones of course. http://www.ebay.com/itm/310792543321

I've been having issues with mine where the audio starts crackling if there isn't any audio playing for a couple of minutes and either have to restart the PC, unplug the USB cable and reconnect, or turn off the DAC. Which is super annoying since it takes about 30 seconds to warm up the tube.
A quick on and off doesn't work either since I guess the way the electronics are made is to not output any audio for 30 seconds after turning on. Even if the tube is actually warmed up.


----------



## preston.murrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DF is BUSY*
> 
> a DS for 12 bucks? nice pickup!


yes a ds for 12 bucks i was like SCORE. good place to start for a first sound card and a good price


----------



## RussianC

Hello, I wanted to ask if anyone could help me find a Set of speakers 5.1 for under $120. Maybe someone saw a good deal on a set on ebay or something. Looking for something with decent quality of sound really.

Found a Logitech X-530 thinking of picking it up, around 50$ bid.
Also a Creative Labs A550 set for 65.

Maybe a few words witch to go with?
In the dark here, have no idea what's good and bad.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianC*
> 
> Hello, I wanted to ask if anyone could help me find a Set of speakers 5.1 for under $120. Maybe someone saw a good deal on a set on ebay or something. Looking for something with decent quality of sound really.
> 
> Found a Logitech X-530 thinking of picking it up, around 50$ bid.
> Also a Creative Labs A550 set for 65.
> 
> Maybe a few words witch to go with?
> In the dark here, have no idea what's good and bad.


If you're US based, there's still some Walmarts that have the X530s around on clearance for under $60. May not be your best option for the money, but thought I'd throw that out there for you







.


----------



## RussianC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RussianC*
> 
> Hello, I wanted to ask if anyone could help me find a Set of speakers 5.1 for under $120. Maybe someone saw a good deal on a set on ebay or something. Looking for something with decent quality of sound really.
> 
> Found a Logitech X-530 thinking of picking it up, around 50$ bid.
> Also a Creative Labs A550 set for 65.
> 
> Maybe a few words witch to go with?
> In the dark here, have no idea what's good and bad.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're US based, there's still some Walmarts that have the X530s around on clearance for under $60. May not be your best option for the money, but thought I'd throw that out there for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

I will check Walmart out hopefully they have a few clearances around me. (In Florida)


----------



## devilangel

Anyone tried the samson SR950?


----------



## THEStorm

I just ordered a set of Hifman HE-400's and now I am looking for a DAC and AMP.

Which would you recommend, Magni/Modi stack or O2/ODAC?

Leaning towards the O2/ODAC as I very much like the concept, but before I order anything I am going to see how the cans sound without an AMP & DAC.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> I just ordered a set of Hifman HE-400's and now I am looking for a DAC and AMP.
> 
> Which would you recommend, Magni/Modi stack or O2/ODAC?
> 
> Leaning towards the O2/ODAC as I very much like the concept, but before I order anything I am going to see how the cans sound without an AMP & DAC.


The Magni and Modi are each a bit bright. The O2/ODAC would be closer to neutral. I'd go with that combo.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> I just ordered a set of Hifman HE-400's and now I am looking for a DAC and AMP.
> 
> Which would you recommend, Magni/Modi stack or O2/ODAC?
> 
> Leaning towards the O2/ODAC as I very much like the concept, but before I order anything I am going to see how the cans sound without an AMP & DAC.


It might sound alright amp, but if it sounds like poo, you'll know why







.


----------



## chinesekiwi

eh, the HE-400 is planar...both won't be able to power them. Also it'll sound awful underpowered.


----------



## mikeaj

Yeah, but HE-400 sensitivity is in the same range as Grados, and the planar drivers are pretty much resistive across the range.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Yeah, but HE-400 sensitivity is in the same range as Grados, and the planar drivers are pretty much resistive across the range.


This was my impression. They seem to pair well with the Aune T1 too


----------



## rows

Hi all, i read the first page with all the recommendation on this thread and I will buy myself a pair of Beyerdynamics DT 990. I will use this primarily for FPS gaming and occasionally for music and movies.

Some questions that I have:
Do you mean the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm or are there other DT990's?
Is the Titanium HD better that the Creative Z for this headphone? The Titanium HD cost here in the Netherlands approx $187 and the Z cost $99. Also the Asus Xonar Essence STX cost the same as the Titanium btw.

At this moment I've got the Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1 soundcard btw, which is also running good, but I'm running it with a cheap creative headset. I don't know how this soundcard will wok with the DT990?


----------



## pez

IIRC, the Forte's were a real stand-up card. I would think a Titanium HD, Z, or STX would be a side-grade, rather than an upgrade. You would be better off buying a dedicated/standalone DAC and AMP, or just stick with your soundcard for now and invest in an amp to go along with your headphones.


----------



## devilangel

Titanium HD or STX, both are audiophile options, but you must have an optical connector for the HD, it won't support any 5.1 analog speakers. I wouldn't pick the Z.


----------



## THEStorm

Anybody have a recommendation for a decently priced headphone stand?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> Anybody have a recommendation for a decently priced headphone stand?


Please define "decently priced" for us. It is not meant to be an obnoxious question, simply that there are a few among us who might have different perceptions of "decently priced" and I want to establish a numerical range.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> Anybody have a recommendation for a decently priced headphone stand?


I've heard good things about Woo Audio stands, and they aren't ridiculously priced.

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/


----------



## friend'scatdied

I'm a big fan of the Stax HPS-2.


----------



## THEStorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Please define "decently priced" for us. It is not meant to be an obnoxious question, simply that there are a few among us who might have different perceptions of "decently priced" and I want to establish a numerical range.


I was thinking under $50 CAD, starting to look at some DIY solutions.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Please define "decently priced" for us. It is not meant to be an obnoxious question, simply that there are a few among us who might have different perceptions of "decently priced" and I want to establish a numerical range.


I'd have to agree with OCing Noob here; decently priced is very subjective, we need to find out a price range that is decent for you! Is it between 10~50 or 50~100?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I've heard good things about Woo Audio stands, and they aren't ridiculously priced.
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/


For me; paying $70 is no longer decently priced (maybe $50 max); specially for a head stand!









Of course those original omega wood headphone stands are just insanely priced!

Here's a decent "Omega" alternative around the $50 mark with shipping:

S4 Metal Omega


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *THEStorm*
> 
> I was thinking under $50 CAD, starting to look at some DIY solutions.


There are some really nice DIY solutions for around $10-15. A banana stand or TP roll holder usually jumps to mind immediately. Here are some cool DIY suggestions:

1. Spectrum Scroll Banana Holder

2. Umbra Tucan Toilet Paper Stand

3. Cosmetic/Wig Foam Head with Base

4. Plastic Sticky Hooks

If you are concerned with indentation, a sponge or foam rap around the place you hang the band from should alleviate that issue.


----------



## Tiihokatti

My dream stand would be a big bottle of Jägermeister.


----------



## Tagkaman

If you want to hang them off the edge of your desk, theres always the Binder Clip Headphone Hanger. I'm a happy 3 year user.









Also, feel free to add some extra padding.


----------



## rows

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devilangel*
> 
> Titanium HD or STX, both are audiophile options, but you must have an optical connector for the HD, it won't support any 5.1 analog speakers. I wouldn't pick the Z.


But is my Auzentech sufficient to drive the DT 990"s??

And when I go for a separate DAC and AMP do i still have surround sound in Game for positioning audio which is of course very important when you play FPS on high level?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> But is my Auzentech sufficient to drive the DT 990"s??
> 
> And when I go for a separate DAC and AMP do i still have surround sound in Game for positioning audio which is of course very important when you play FPS on high level?


Surround: If the game doesn't have its own binaural simulation - nope. But you can optionally use Razer Surround software instead of the Dolby Headphone/SBX surround of a soundcard. It works with any DAC.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> But is my Auzentech sufficient to drive the DT 990"s??
> 
> And when I go for a separate DAC and AMP do i still have surround sound in Game for positioning audio which is of course very important when you play FPS on high level?


You'll want at least an amp to compliment your Forte, but you can use the money you were going to buy a new sound card with and use it on an amp. How obtainable are Schiit products for you? The Vali might be a good start for the type of sound properites that the Beyer line usually represent.


----------



## devilangel

Amp, dacs.. whatever, don't complicate yourself and focus more on your skills. Just get a decent sound card and a headphone with good soundstage and bass like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Technica-ATH-AD700-Open-air-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B000CMS0XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397276452&sr=1-1&keywords=ath+ad700


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devilangel*
> 
> headphone with good soundstage and *bass* like this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Technica-*ATH-AD700*-Open-air-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B000CMS0XU


that's a real knee slapper


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devilangel*
> 
> Amp, dacs.. whatever, don't complicate yourself and focus more on your skills. Just get a decent sound card and a headphone with good soundstage and bass like this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Technica-ATH-AD700-Open-air-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B000CMS0XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397276452&sr=1-1&keywords=ath+ad700


AD700's are great entry level audiophile headphones. They have great treble, sparkly upper midrange, incredibly large soundstage for the price range, and quite comfortable to wear due to how light it is. The Achilles Heel of these headphones is that the bass response is pretty much nonexistent. If you are a basshead, these are NOT the right headphones for you.


----------



## devilangel

Forgot the bass sort of issue, anyway -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-3-29-2014-ultrasone-hs-15-added-edits


----------



## superbarnie

So I just realized that the JVC HARX-700 headphones got removed from the list. Are they bad? Or is there better alternatives?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *devilangel*
> 
> Forgot the bass sort of issue, anyway -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-3-29-2014-ultrasone-hs-15-added-edits


The points made prior to yours are very valid, especially coming from a crowd that are both audiophiles and gamers all the same. Not sure why you're trying to debunk our opinions based on a money driven site like Head-fi.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> So I just realized that the JVC HARX-700 headphones got removed from the list. Are they bad? Or is there better alternatives?


They are surprisingly good, and at the the less-than fifty dollar price point, at that. I gave them a listen at my bud's house the last time I visited and I forgot how good they actually were. Their biggest weakness, IMO, is how creaky and cheap they feel, even though they aren't cheap at all. The pair my friend has is secondhand (via me) and has been going strong for him for a couple years now.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> The points made prior to yours are very valid, especially coming from a crowd that are both audiophiles and gamers all the same. Not sure why you're trying to debunk our opinions based on a money driven site like Head-fi.
> They are surprisingly good, and at the the less-than fifty dollar price point, at that. I gave them a listen at my bud's house the last time I visited and I forgot how good they actually were. Their biggest weakness, IMO, is how creaky and cheap they feel, even though they aren't cheap at all. The pair my friend has is secondhand (via me) and has been going strong for him for a couple years now.


I don't think he was trying to debunk it. I read it as him saying he forgot about the bass response and how bad it was. Maybe I misread. *shrugs*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superbarnie*
> 
> So I just realized that the JVC HARX-700 headphones got removed from the list. Are they bad? Or is there better alternatives?


The JVC HARX700 are not bad headphones. There are just other options that can be considered better with the Monoprice 8232, Superflux HD681, and a few Koss cans.


----------



## devilangel

Just take it as reference, audio products are very subjective topic, testing the headphone it's the best way to decide.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I don't think he was trying to debunk it. I read it as him saying he forgot about the bass response and how bad it was. Maybe I misread. *shrugs*
> The JVC HARX700 are not bad headphones. There are just other options that can be considered better with the Monoprice 8232, Superflux HD681, and a few Koss cans.


It was more aimed at the first post, but however.


----------



## szeged

gotta get a new mic, was thinking about grabbing one of these

http://www.amazon.com/Samson-C01UCW-Studio-Cakewalk-Sonar/dp/B000PTF0E2

might even go for one of the used ones for ~$40 or so, what do you guys think? non professional use only, mostly competitive pvp games. Open to any suggestions to save me some money + keep high performance


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> gotta get a new mic, was thinking about grabbing one of these
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Samson-C01UCW-Studio-Cakewalk-Sonar/dp/B000PTF0E2
> 
> might even go for one of the used ones for ~$40 or so, what do you guys think? non professional use only, mostly competitive pvp games. Open to any suggestions to save me some money + keep high performance


If you're using VoIP the people you are talking to probably won't be able to tell the difference between that and a ModMic so I would just grab one of those.

It does depend on the software you are using, Skype completely butchers quality while dedicated VoIP software like TeamSpeak isn't as bad, but the ModMic is still awesome.


----------



## szeged

cool ill check it out, thanks.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I'd get the Audio Technica Atr-2500 before that.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> I'd get the Audio Technica Atr-2500 before that.


It's also around twice the price







.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> It's also around twice the price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


We the one he posted is $61, the 2500 used to be $48.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> We the one he posted is $61, the 2500 used to be $48.


Erm...

http://www.modmic.com/products/modmic

Edit:

Thought you were referencing the ModMic. My bad







.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Erm...
> 
> http://www.modmic.com/products/modmic


What you were referring to was very vague, I thought you were talking about this post:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> gotta get a new mic, was thinking about grabbing one of these
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Samson-C01UCW-Studio-Cakewalk-Sonar/dp/B000PTF0E2
> 
> might even go for one of the used ones for ~$40 or so, what do you guys think? non professional use only, mostly competitive pvp games. Open to any suggestions to save me some money + keep high performance


Still, if you can get the 2500 for ~$50, it would be better in most regards. Especially if you don't use a headset when gaming.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

I've realised there's been a lot less fighting recently.

What ever happened to that gem of a member Simca?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> I've realised there's been a lot less fighting recently.
> 
> What ever happened to that gem of a member Simca?


She took an Audio Editor in the knee?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> She took an Audio Editor in the knee?


I see what you did there dovahkin!


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> She took an Audio Editor in the knee?


haha was a long time coming I supppose


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> haha was a long time coming I supppose


In ChineseKiwi's defense, that is NOT what happened. However, that is neither here or there and here we should re-focus back on audio goodness and helping others.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> What you were referring to was very vague, I thought you were talking about this post:
> 
> Still, if you can get the 2500 for ~$50, it would be better in most regards. Especially if you don't use a headset when gaming.


ill look around for one, thanks







using some sennheiser 598s atm, got tired of pretty much every headset i would try ending up like crap =\


----------



## preston.murrell

asrock z68 extrme 3 gen 3
intel 2500k
devil 13 7990
8gb ram

logitech z2300
razer Timat 7.1
kilpch image one

Ok I give up to much info to process even for someone that's coming from car audio competition in both spl and sq. I had got an asus ds for 12 bucks but it came doa, sad day. My issue is this I have a realtek alc 892 onboard codec and I'm trying to power my Razer Timat 7.1s. The problem i have is no matter how much I turn up the volume they never seem loud and the bass is just hollow with no depth. (this is a big issue when I'm used to 142db of bass at 39hz in my face from my car)

I'm looking for a sound card that's at least 5.1 for mostly gaming, but also music. It needs to be able to drive headphones better than my on board.

The best I can tell the issue is a lack of a good output signal based on my onboard putting out "97db snr" http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Audio-Codec-Comparison-Table/520/2 . And I feel like something with a better output signal would solve the issue but I'm not positive. Due to dac this headphone amp that, so here I am asking for your wisdom

What Ive come to is either

asus u7
asus dsx
asus dx
asus d2x
asus essense stx?(does it even hook up 5.1?)
creative sb z oem (cant stand the red light)

or

upgrade to a mobo with better onboard?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Isn't the Tiamat a "true" 7.1 headset? So it needs the 7.1 connections.
I would recommend the Xonar DSX. No need for higher-end card with those cans. The Xonar also has Flexbass function which can help with the bass.
Also make sure the USB port you are using is a proper one and not one of those low-power ports like the one in G110 keyboard.

USB is used to power the headset.
Flex Bass is bass redirection fuction to send all bass from other speakers to subwoofer.


----------



## preston.murrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Isn't the Tiamat a "true" 7.1 headset? So it needs the 7.1 connections.
> I would recommend the Xonar DSX. No need for higher-end card with those cans. The Xonar also has Flexbass function which can help with the bass.
> Also make sure the USB port you are using is a proper one and not one of those low-power ports like the one in G110 keyboard.
> 
> USB is used to power the headset.
> Flex Bass is bass redirection fuction to send all bass from other speakers to subwoofer.


Yes the Timat is a "true 7.1" i am using one of the usb 3.0 on the back of my mobo and i always redirect it with the onboard never seems to help much but it is onboard. And the dsx is my best option then? because im ok with leaving the sides unpluged if it means getting more volume out of it. and i have found the xonar u7 for 80 bucks new and it does 7.1

i should probably note that i only paid 40 usd for these cans


----------



## Tiihokatti

AFAIK the USB powers the drivers of the Tiamat, so a new soundcard won't help with the volumes if the onboard isn't broken.
You could try the headset on a friends PC to see if the problem is with the onboard.

My personal experience with "true" surround headsets is: "Oh dear god why did I buy this piece of junk".
So if the problem persists even on another PC/sound source, I recommend to change cans or RMA the Tiamats


----------



## BenJaminJr

Been reading through this thread but it seems folks in here have some cash to toss around lol

Anyways, I have an Asrock Extreme4, and I just bought some ATH-A900x. Is it worth it to get a PCI sound card?

I was also looking at like a Fiio E7 Andes, something I could take out with me.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> ill look around for one, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> using some sennheiser 598s atm, got tired of pretty much every headset i would try ending up like crap =\


Well, I should have said headphones, the modmic is very good for that. Desk mics pick up more background noise, and need a stand and a pop filter to be truly effective.


----------



## pez

This Charlotte meet is coming up quick. It's gonna make me spend lots of money I feel







.


----------



## preston.murrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> AFAIK the USB powers the drivers of the Tiamat, so a new soundcard won't help with the volumes if the onboard isn't broken.
> You could try the headset on a friends PC to see if the problem is with the onboard.
> 
> My personal experience with "true" surround headsets is: "Oh dear god why did I buy this piece of junk".
> So if the problem persists even on another PC/sound source, I recommend to change cans or RMA the Tiamats


i got them cause there were the best thing i could get at 40 dollars and i needed a headset to use because the parents were complaining my z2300s were to loud

but i think you are right i think the usb powers them. maybe ill try an external usb to see if that helps


----------



## RubyRhod

*Budget:* Around $400

*Music:* Mostly rock, blues, and heavy metal

I would like the headphone to be about 50% game, 50% music and movies. Since I usually only play games like DOTA sound stage isn't terribly important. However, a decent sound stage would still be preferred.

Also, I would prefer to have the phones be open backed, but I'm open to closed phones. The headphones would be for home use, I'd also like for them to be comfortable since they'd be used for long periods of time. I prefer over the ear.

I haven't really delved into headphones before, the last headset I had was a Tritton AX PC Pro, and it wasn't a pleasant experience. The first time it broke, the detachable mic stopped working. The second time, one of the speakers went out. In a period of a few months each time.

For the longest time I've been using a Creative X-fi with some JBL creatures.

Since I haven't had a set of headphones in so long, should I just get a headphone like the HD558, or get a DAC and amp with a headphone?

I'm open to any suggestions.


----------



## BoredErica

Is that $400 budget including the dac and amp or just for the headphones?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RubyRhod*
> 
> *Budget:* Around $400
> 
> *Music:* Mostly rock, blues, and heavy metal
> 
> I would like the headphone to be about 50% game, 50% music and movies. Since I usually only play games like DOTA sound stage isn't terribly important. However, a decent sound stage would still be preferred.
> 
> Also, I would prefer to have the phones be open backed, but I'm open to closed phones. The headphones would be for home use, I'd also like for them to be comfortable since they'd be used for long periods of time. I prefer over the ear.
> 
> I haven't really delved into headphones before, the last headset I had was a Tritton AX PC Pro, and it wasn't a pleasant experience. The first time it broke, the detachable mic stopped working. The second time, one of the speakers went out. In a period of a few months each time.
> 
> For the longest time I've been using a Creative X-fi with some JBL creatures.
> 
> Since I haven't had a set of headphones in so long, should I just get a headphone like the HD558, or get a DAC and amp with a headphone?
> 
> I'm open to any suggestions.


Depending on what your sound preferences are:

Schiit Modi> Schiit Magni> DT880 Pro 250 Ohm
or
ODAC> HiFiMan EF3> HiFiMan HE-300 (http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=194)

The first combo will be a bit bright and have a bit higher clarity. The bass extension should be a bit better too. However, the combo might sound harsh to your ears.

The second combo will be a bit warm and slightly less clarity but should sound smoother. The mid bass should be a bit more boosted too.

Basically it comes down to preference. Both come to $400


----------



## RubyRhod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Is that $400 budget including the dac and amp or just for the headphones?


It would be including the dac and the amp.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Depending on what your sound preferences are:
> 
> Schiit Modi> Schiit Magni> DT880 Pro 250 Ohm
> or
> ODAC> HiFiMan EF3> HiFiMan HE-300 (http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=194)
> 
> The first combo will be a bit bright and have a bit higher clarity. The bass extension should be a bit better too. However, the combo might sound harsh to your ears.
> 
> The second combo will be a bit warm and slightly less clarity but should sound smoother. The mid bass should be a bit more boosted too.
> 
> Basically it comes down to preference. Both come to $400


I really dig the look of the magni and modi, and I was looking at the DT 880's previously.

The HE 300 combo might benefit me more though. Awesome suggestions, thanks man!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Been designing a complete HTPC system for my brother. PS3, PC, TV, speakers, etc.
I think I'll go with ESI nEar05 and route all audio through the PC. Sound Blaster Z has enough inputs for that.

Next step would be persuading him to buy good headphones to replace his old junky Sennheiser SR120.


----------



## DVLux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Been designing a complete HTPC system for my brother. PS3, PC, TV, speakers, etc.
> I think I'll go with ESI nEar05 and route all audio through the PC. Sound Blaster Z has enough inputs for that.
> 
> Next step would be persuading him to buy good headphones to replace his old junky Sennheiser SR120.


So how are you going to get those speakers to work with that sound card? Two mono to stereo? Because I don't see them working with that card, otherwise...


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DVLux*
> 
> So how are you going to get those speakers to work with that sound card? Two mono to stereo? Because I don't see them working with that card, otherwise...


Lol, it doesn't matter if it's a 3,5mm stereo jack or mono RCA. All you need is the right cables (3,5mm to 2x TRS in his case).
The only thing I need to watch out for is groundloop and it's already taken care of.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Will update this on Friday / the weekend.

The Audio Technica AG-1 and ADG-1 being really, the new must-have king of gaming headsets really.

Yes, the open ADG-1 is what you guys have been wanting: AD700X with a (very good) boom mic.
The closed AG-1 is a A700X with the same very good boom mic.
Currently only available in the Asia-Pacific market! Yay we only here finally get something over the US!
Europe release is June 1.

US market price is predicted to be $299.95.


----------



## THEStorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Will update this on Friday / the weekend.
> 
> The Audio Technica AG-1 and ADG-1 being really, the new must-have king of gaming headsets really.
> 
> Yes, the open ADG-1 is what you guys have been wanting: AD700X with a (very good) boom mic.
> The closed AG-1 is a A700X with the same very good boom mic.
> Currently only available in the Asia-Pacific market! Yay we only here finally get something over the US!
> Europe release is June 1.
> 
> US market price is predicted to be $299.95.


So an extra $150 for a mic?


----------



## pez

Lol which is ridiculous, though it may not stay at MSRP for very long, if at all.


----------



## devilangel

Tried the A700x for a day and this thing has a cold bass, you're warned.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Will update this on Friday / the weekend.
> 
> The Audio Technica AG-1 and ADG-1 being really, the new must-have king of gaming headsets really.
> 
> Yes, the open ADG-1 is what you guys have been wanting: AD700X with a (very good) boom mic.
> The closed AG-1 is a A700X with the same very good boom mic.
> Currently only available in the Asia-Pacific market! Yay we only here finally get something over the US!
> Europe release is June 1.
> 
> US market price is predicted to be $299.95.


So... Next weekend?


----------



## Tiihokatti

My DT770 has finally evolved to its final form:


Costs: $6? And from that the cable is $5.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> My DT770 has finally evolved to its final form:
> 
> 
> Costs: $6? And from that the cable is $5.


Some black leatherette or velour pads and some blu-tak isolation would be the next step IMO


----------



## BonzaiTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> My DT770 has finally evolved to its final form:
> 
> Costs: $6? And from that the cable is $5.
> 
> 
> 
> Some black leatherette or velour pads and some blu-tak isolation would be the next step IMO
Click to expand...

That would put it from Jin 2 to Jin 3 right?


----------



## phillyd

Yep! And for Gen 4 you could do a removable cable,and paint the cups.


----------



## Bucake

after browsing through a few threads, i have a few questions.
i'm currently looking into headphones, but there doesn't really seem to be an end to the price-range.

1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.

2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get _both_ an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?

3) i absolutely hate this 'feedback' that i'm hearing. when i move around a screen on my desktop or i'm in the main menu of a game, or playing one, i hear a huge amount of 'feedback'.
i don't know what causes this, but i presume my onboard (yes, onboard) soundcard is (one of) the culprit(s).
_anyway_; i would like to *kill* this feedback that i'm hearing. so is it my onboard soundcard the (only) culprit, or are there more things which could cause/increase this feedback?
the sound ranges from white noise-like sound to (sometimes very) high-frequency buzzing. it's incredibly annoying, to say the least. (and, like an idiot, i end up increasing my volume to get my brain to be alot less aware of the feedback-sound.)
the reason i ask is because i want to know if this is something i should consider when looking for headphones/DACs/soundcards/amplifiers, and maybe even software or other hardware components.

4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.

5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?
i value low latency, especially when editing sound/music and when playing games.

i'd really appreciate your help.
(please excuse me if it's not okay to post these questions here.)


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> after browsing through a few threads, i have a few questions.
> i'm currently looking into headphones, but there doesn't really seem to be an end to the price-range.
> 
> 1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
> because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.
> 
> 2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get _both_ an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
> or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?
> 
> 3) i absolutely hate this 'feedback' that i'm hearing. when i move around a screen on my desktop or i'm in the main menu of a game, or playing one, i hear a huge amount of 'feedback'.
> i don't know what causes this, but i presume my onboard (yes, onboard) soundcard is (one of) the culprit(s).
> _anyway_; i would like to *kill* this feedback that i'm hearing. so is it my onboard soundcard the (only) culprit, or are there more things which could cause/increase this feedback?
> the sound ranges from white noise-like sound to (sometimes very) high-frequency buzzing. it's incredibly annoying, to say the least. (and, like an idiot, i end up increasing my volume to get my brain to be alot less aware of the feedback-sound.)
> the reason i ask is because i want to know if this is something i should consider when looking for headphones/DACs/soundcards/amplifiers, and maybe even software or other hardware components.
> 
> 4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.
> 
> 5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?
> i value low latency, especially when editing sound/music and when playing games.
> 
> i'd really appreciate your help.
> (please excuse me if it's not okay to post these questions here.)


1: yes there is, and there really is no sweet spot. However, there are really high end headphones that also sound a lot worse than lower end headphones. Audio is a crap game when it comes to prices.

2: A sound card is nothing but a dac and a amp. The only difference is that on a sound card, the amp and dac are realllllly tiny so they can fit on a little PCB, and therefore the quality suffers quite a bit. With cheap amps and dacs becoming more common place and affordable, there is really no reason not to get an amp and dac over a sound card.

3: If you want to kill the noise coming from your computer, then get a dac that has an optical in. Problem solved.

4: No. That was easy









5: None of them add enough latency for the human brain to perceive. If there is noticeable problem with the dac and latency, then it is generally a hard ware issue that can be resolved by RMA.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> after browsing through a few threads, i have a few questions.
> i'm currently looking into headphones, but there doesn't really seem to be an end to the price-range.
> 
> 1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
> because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.
> 
> 2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get _both_ an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
> or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?
> 
> 3) i absolutely hate this 'feedback' that i'm hearing. when i move around a screen on my desktop or i'm in the main menu of a game, or playing one, i hear a huge amount of 'feedback'.
> i don't know what causes this, but i presume my onboard (yes, onboard) soundcard is (one of) the culprit(s).
> _anyway_; i would like to *kill* this feedback that i'm hearing. so is it my onboard soundcard the (only) culprit, or are there more things which could cause/increase this feedback?
> the sound ranges from white noise-like sound to (sometimes very) high-frequency buzzing. it's incredibly annoying, to say the least. (and, like an idiot, i end up increasing my volume to get my brain to be alot less aware of the feedback-sound.)
> the reason i ask is because i want to know if this is something i should consider when looking for headphones/DACs/soundcards/amplifiers, and maybe even software or other hardware components.
> 
> 4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.
> 
> 5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?
> i value low latency, especially when editing sound/music and when playing games.
> 
> i'd really appreciate your help.
> (please excuse me if it's not okay to post these questions here.)


*1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.*

it works both ways. a D/A converter that cost $600 with a radically different design than a $400 D/A converter can sound better but there are products that are overpriced as well. $250 is a good sweet spot.

*2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get both an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?*

it depends on the headphone. The Sennheiser HD6xx series has a reputation for scaling well with Headphone Amplifiers and D/A converters but the Sennheiser HD5xx series is the opposite. I couldn't get much out of the Sennheiser HD558 even with a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII which cost $1600.

*3) i absolutely hate this 'feedback' that i'm hearing. when i move around a screen on my desktop or i'm in the main menu of a game, or playing one, i hear a huge amount of 'feedback'.
i don't know what causes this, but i presume my onboard (yes, onboard) soundcard is (one of) the culprit(s).
anyway; i would like to kill this feedback that i'm hearing. so is it my onboard soundcard the (only) culprit, or are there more things which could cause/increase this feedback?
the sound ranges from white noise-like sound to (sometimes very) high-frequency buzzing. it's incredibly annoying, to say the least. (and, like an idiot, i end up increasing my volume to get my brain to be alot less aware of the feedback-sound.)
the reason i ask is because i want to know if this is something i should consider when looking for headphones/DACs/soundcards/amplifiers, and maybe even software or other hardware components.
*
I have heard of people experiencing interference when moving the mouse cursor around so probably.

*4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.*

when I turn on Razor Surround and Dolby Headphone it sounds really artificial. I have a feeling these technologies were intended for closed back headphones like the Audio Technica ATH-M50 or something.

*5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?
i value low latency, especially when editing sound/music and when playing games.*

I have not experienced any latency but I guess that is going to depend on the music player and whether or not you use ASIO or WASAPI.

*shrug*


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> after browsing through a few threads, i have a few questions.
> i'm currently looking into headphones, but there doesn't really seem to be an end to the price-range.
> 
> 1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
> because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.
> 
> Depends on your music taste and the use of the headphones. You seriously should go to a local music shop to listen to some cans if you don't have any idea how much money you want to spend. A $400 set of Magni+Modi+DT880 or EF3+Modi+HE-300 are good audiophile sweet spots.
> If you just want "good sound" then a $150 DT990 and a $60 Sound Blaster Z could be more than enough for you.
> 
> 2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get _both_ an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
> or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?
> 
> Soundcards have very high output impedance (= mediocre amplifiers) so that is why the external amplifiers are recommended.
> You can use a soundcard as a DAC and just plug an external amplifier to it.
> 
> 3) i absolutely hate this 'feedback' that i'm hearing. when i move around a screen on my desktop or i'm in the main menu of a game, or playing one, i hear a huge amount of 'feedback'.
> i don't know what causes this, but i presume my onboard (yes, onboard) soundcard is (one of) the culprit(s).
> _anyway_; i would like to *kill* this feedback that i'm hearing. so is it my onboard soundcard the (only) culprit, or are there more things which could cause/increase this feedback?
> the sound ranges from white noise-like sound to (sometimes very) high-frequency buzzing. it's incredibly annoying, to say the least. (and, like an idiot, i end up increasing my volume to get my brain to be alot less aware of the feedback-sound.)
> the reason i ask is because i want to know if this is something i should consider when looking for headphones/DACs/soundcards/amplifiers, and maybe even software or other hardware components.
> 
> Without knowing what equipment you have I must use my crystal ball: Your onboard sound is picking up interference from the other components of the mobo. Usually this is because the mobo grounding is a total mess for the onboard sound. A soundcard could fix it and external DAC should fix it, optical external DAC (Schiit Modi for example) would be the universal cure.
> 
> 4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.
> 
> *True* 5.1/7.1 is a gimmick. Virtual not so much (because some games have crappy build-in binaural support...).
> 
> 5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?
> i value low latency, especially when editing sound/music and when playing games.
> 
> ODAC has total hardware latency of 1.6 mS. Soundcards should be similar. But the drivers and software affect the DPC latency so who knows what the final results are.
> 
> i'd really appreciate your help.
> (please excuse me if it's not okay to post these questions here.)


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> after browsing through a few threads, i have a few questions.
> i'm currently looking into headphones, but there doesn't really seem to be an end to the price-range.
> 
> 1) is there a significant difference between equipment worth 400 and equipment worth 600? or are there a couple of 'sweet spots' i should consider?
> because i'm not exactly rich, but i'm willing to pay for significance. these threads gave me the impression that [more money = better sound], when it comes to audio-equipment.


This highly depends on what equipment you are talking about and what qualities you are comparing. There really isn't a clear-cut direct 'more expensive is always better' thing in AV in general.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 2) am i correctly understanding that the idea is to get _both_ an amplifier and a DAC to get the most out of your headphones/soundcard?
> or does that really depend on the headphones or/and soundcard you're using?


Depends on headphones and budget.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 4) 5.1? 7.1? worth it? gimmicks? or simply preference, a trade-off? the reports of loss of quality made me skeptical.


Depends on implementation and use of implementation. e.g. Dolby Headphone was intended for movies and for movies with AC3 data (Dolby Surround) in it, it is brilliant for that but for gaming, it's horrible yet it is used for that i.e. the wrong purpose. Software surround sound with stereo headphones are the best value way of doing things.

Proper surround sound software emulation used for the right purpose is great and not 'artificial'. It's only 'artificial' if it doesn't suit how you hear things (layman's terms for head-related transfer functions). Razer Surround is great in that you can configure it in that way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 5) do DACs/multipliers add latency? if yes: do some add more than others? how about soundcards?


Yes they do, but you won't notice it nor does it matter for sound playback. For sound recording, you can use ASIO with most soundcards and DACs these days, however WASAPI's latency is 20ms, which is still quite low.


----------



## Crizume

So I have an extra pair of BS-21's lying around and am going to give them to my brother.

He uses a laptop so soundcard is a no go. What is recommened for using these now days. I used a receiver but upgraded and remember seing the lepai 2020 and dayton dta-1 when i bought them on the recomended list but those options are now gone. Looking to stay under $100.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizume*
> 
> So I have an extra pair of BS-21's lying around and am going to give them to my brother.
> 
> He uses a laptop so soundcard is a no go. What is recommened for using these now days. I used a receiver but upgraded and remember seing the lepai 2020 and dayton dta-1 when i bought them on the recomended list but those options are now gone. Looking to stay under $100.


Did you need a USB soundcard or USB DAC and amplifier. Or just the amplifier?


----------



## Crizume

Would a amplifier be enough? He is not a gamer just an avid music listener so I dont know how much of a difference the usb soundcard would make. What is recommended? Dac and amp?


----------



## iamwardicus

Plug in headphones to the laptop. If he likes the sound out of those than just the amplifier, and the 3.5mm to rca jack (or 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack depending on the amp) and he'll be set. If he wants more accurate sound than he can do the DAC as well. Personally I'd start with just the amp and the speakers, and if you want to do more after that, go for it. Start with the minimum required and build up from there.


----------



## Crizume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus*
> 
> Plug in headphones to the laptop. If he likes the sound out of those than just the amplifier, and the 3.5mm to rca jack (or 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack depending on the amp) and he'll be set. If he wants more accurate sound than he can do the DAC as well. Personally I'd start with just the amp and the speakers, and if you want to do more after that, go for it. Start with the minimum required and build up from there.


Thanks. Sounds like a plan. Any good recommendations on an adequate dac to power these.


----------



## iamwardicus

If you need a DAC just look on the first page and pick one. I believe most any external DAC on the list will be better than the integrated on a generic laptop. I would also say look into a FiiO if you don't want to get the Schiit.


----------



## Crizume

Sorry mistype. I meant adequate amp. I see a dac section and headphone amp section but no speaker amp category.


----------



## iamwardicus

Ahh, lol, no problem. For nearfield listening I loved my DTA-1 (i've since gone to an AudioSource 100amp stereo amp - it was a good deal on amazon ). A Lepai 2020a would suffice as well for nearfield listening. They may not be on the list but for nice starter gear they're great. The last option is goto your local thrift store and see if they've any vintage stereo or home theater amplifiers with an audio in.


----------



## bumblebee1980

Class T Amplifiers are no good.

http://shop.emotiva.com/products/a100

also check http://app.audiogon.com/


----------



## nvidiaftw12

No balance or tone control though.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I haven't seen an amplifier with tone controls since the early 90's lol

take a look on Audiogon.


----------



## iamwardicus

He's trying to keep the budget to under $100. A T-amp will give more than enough power for some small speakers for a laptop setup. If he doesn't go t-amp an old home theater or stereo receiver will be their next best budget friendly option.


----------



## bumblebee1980

no thanks


----------



## bumblebee1980

Class T amplifiers have serious problems with distortion and clipping. the graph shows at 4 watt (2 watt per channel) output THD is 0.1% @ 8 ohm load and only gets worse as you turn the volume knob.

these are the cheapest speakers I know sound good and measure well

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-arx-loudspeakers/A1rx-c

a budget integrated amplifier, budget D/A converter, stands, room treatment, cables, microphone, etc. probably $1000 minimum.

then you say BACK UP WE GOT A BADASS AUDIOPHILE HERE

and I say nope.. this is how you setup speakers properly and then I tell you to buy headphones instead









edit: i'm just teasing.


----------



## iamwardicus

Please find the poster in need a sub $100 budget amplifier that you would recommend that isn't a t-amp. I know it would likely have to be used unless it were say a Pyle or Sherwood receiver and that's not something I'd recommend since I've heard only mediocre things about them. The AudioSource Amp-100 that I have is currently $109 on Amazon, but it's above the budget, and honestly overkill for the apparent intended purpose. A $20 or $40 budget t-amp should more than suffice the intended purpose as they aren't audiophiles. I'm personally sure that his brother isn't going to be super picky so long as it sounds better than his laptop, and a pair of BS21 speakers most certainly will, even with a budget t-amp that I'm suggesting. I know it's not necessarily the most accurate sounding piece of equipment, but than again, any improvement will be substantial over a couple of tin laptop speakers.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I recommend he hold on to his money and open a savings account so he can spend more









sorry but to me buying Class T amplifiers, cheap active monitors, etc. is like throwing away money on gaming headsets. i'm trying not to be snobby about it.


----------



## bumblebee1980

speakers are so much more expensive than headphones and a lot of work is needed to setting them up properly. just a medium size office would probably take me 4 or 5 hours to setup everything.. I do all this because I want a flat frequency response. I want to control the reflections and resonance in the room which is very important.

feel free to buy the Dayton DTA100a and Pioneer SP-BS21 speakers I won't get mad


----------



## Crizume

Well then...

I am not buying them. I have them as hand me downs for a family member. They were my first budget foray into real speakers and of course I upgraded with time.

Instead of throwing them in the trash like u seem to think they are i rather some one put them to use. I dont know that $219 for an amp is something he is willing to spend though.

Srry for grammar internet not up in new home.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I never said they belong in the trash. I never even read your post. the problems Class T amplifiers have, a cheap alternative and what I would use is all I wanted to say.

The Emotiva Mini-X A100 is still worth picking up if you or whoever this system is for wants to upgrade in the near future









Audiogon isn't like Craigslist.. the second hand market is big and audiophiles like to baby they're gear so you can often save a lot of money going this route.


----------



## Bucake

Tjj226 Angel, bumblebee1980, Tiihokatti, chinesekiwi,

thanks alot for your replies :j
i'll be reading up on things.

meanwhile, more questions (







):
*1*) how serious should be my concern for jitter be (specifically with optical s/pdif)?
*2*) if i wanted to get a (optical) DAC, an amp and (open) headphones; would you say that $600 could get me anywhere? if yes: any recommendations? :j
Quote:


> The Sennheiser HD6xx series has a reputation for scaling well with Headphone Amplifiers and D/A converters but the Sennheiser HD5xx series is the opposite. I couldn't get much out of the Sennheiser HD558 even with a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII which cost $1600.


weird to learn this. you'd expect all higher-end headphones to work well with hardware devices like these. or this is just my ignorance talking, whatever ;p
but i suppose this is a dealbreaker, then. what a waste of (potentially good) headphones.

anyway; thanks again for your help guys, it's given me a great kickstart :j


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> Tjj226 Angel, bumblebee1980, Tiihokatti, chinesekiwi,
> 
> thanks alot for your replies :j
> i'll be reading up on things.
> 
> meanwhile, more questions (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ):
> *1*) how serious should be my concern for jitter be (specifically with optical s/pdif)?
> *2*) if i wanted to get a (optical) DAC, an amp and (open) headphones; would you say that $600 could get me anywhere? if yes: any recommendations? :j
> weird to learn this. you'd expect all higher-end headphones to work well with hardware devices like these. or this is just my ignorance talking, whatever ;p
> but i suppose this is a dealbreaker, then. what a waste of (potentially good) headphones.
> 
> anyway; thanks again for your help guys, it's given me a great kickstart :j


you don't have to worry about jitter at all.

Schiit Modi (Optical)
Schiit Vali
Sennheiser HD600 or Sennheiser HD650 or AKG K712 Pro.

you can't go wrong with that.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> you don't have to worry about jitter at all.
> 
> Schiit Modi (Optical)
> Schiit Vali
> Sennheiser HD600 or Sennheiser HD650 or AKG K712 Pro.
> 
> you can't go wrong with that.


I would also throw the Hifiman HE-400 to the fray.


----------



## mrchampipi

Hey there, I'm in the hunt for some wireless headphones for my pc, and despite hours of searching, I still can't decide what to get.

Budget: 300$
Use: 50% gaming, 50% movies. No music.

Specific requirements:
_I don't want to get a sound card or amp, unless I really have to, I'll just be rocking my msi mobo's integrated "audio boost".
_virtual surround/spacialisation is an important factor.
_Don't care about a mic.

Had my eyes on some some Sennheiser rs170 or 180, but afraid they wouldn't make the cut for gaming. On the other hand, wireless gaming headsets scare me for obvious reasons...

Any guidance would be welcome.


----------



## pez

Any reason you wouldn't consider wired? You'll pay significantly more for it being wireless, and a get a lot less audio for that price.


----------



## Dragonsyph

Is this updated? Or still stuff from 2011/


----------



## pez

It was actually updated again at the end of January (this year).


----------



## Dragonsyph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> It was actually updated again at the end of January (this year).


Ok thanks, ill do a read over then.


----------



## mrchampipi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Any reason you wouldn't consider wired? You'll pay significantly more for it being wireless, and a get a lot less audio for that price.


I'm on a "confy couch" setup: pc is hooked to my tv, and I'm sitting a good 3 metters away from it. Also, I've got a dog, so a 3-4m cable running in the middle of the living room is definitely not an option.

Hoping somebody can offer me other choices than the Sennheiser rs series. Again: gaming AND movies, good spacialisation/surround.


----------



## Bucake

bumblebee1980, Tiihokatti,

thanks for the suggestions :j
would you suggest differently if the budget was around $900?
my aim would be to get a sound as flat as possible (according to the budget).

it kind of hurts to read how good the HD800 sounds since it's out of my wallet's league :x


----------



## bumblebee1980

any of the headphones I mentioned but I would change the Schiit Modi (Optical) to the Schiit Bifrost with Uber Analog Upgrade (No USB) and Schiit Valhalla or look for a pre-assembled Bottlehead Crack on the Head-Fi Forums Buy/Sell section or contact Bottlehead. Schiit Lyr would probably be a better choice for the AKG K712 Pro.

if you think tubes are going to bother you the Schiit Asgard is a pretty good amplifier. I like the gain switch and pre-amp relay (when you have active monitors hooked up to the unbalanced outputs and plug headphones in it will switch over to the headphone amp and vice versa).


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> bumblebee1980, Tiihokatti,
> 
> thanks for the suggestions :j
> would you suggest differently if the budget was around $900?
> my aim would be to get a sound as flat as possible (according to the budget).
> 
> it kind of hurts to read how good the HD800 sounds since it's out of my wallet's league :x


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> any of the headphones I mentioned but I would change the Schiit Modi (Optical) to the Schiit Bifrost with Uber Analog Upgrade (No USB) and Schiit Valhalla or look for a pre-assembled Bottlehead Crack on the Head-Fi Forums Buy/Sell section or contact Bottlehead. Schiit Lyr would probably be a better choice for the AKG K712 Pro.
> 
> if you think tubes are going to bother you the Schiit Asgard is a pretty good amplifier. I like the gain switch and pre-amp relay (when you have active monitors hooked up to the unbalanced outputs and plug headphones in it will switch over to the headphone amp and vice versa).


Speaking of the Bottlehead Crack, there is definitely one for sale if it hasn't been taken already. I think the guy wants just south of $500 shipped if you're in the US. With the components he's gotten in it, and the woodwork for the enclosure, it's worth it's weight in gold, and a great deal.


----------



## Bucake

bumblebee1980, pez,
thanks for the posts :j

i'm in Europe, so it would depend on the extra shipping costs (if they even ship to Europe). i'll surely have a look.
though i should say i'd started leaning towards SS amps. (less colouring of sound and good performance no matter the volume level.)

i'm still looking into different headphones, amps, dacs and many basics like power, impedance, clipping, cables, sound colouring in general, tube vs solid-state. research is going slow








currently i'm wondering if i should first pick the headphones(?) before looking at DACs and amps, because i'm getting the impression that having picked the headphones would help deciding which amp/DAC i want (due to the synergie between hardware components).

thanks again for the help :j


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> bumblebee1980, pez,
> thanks for the posts :j
> 
> i'm in Europe, so it would depend on the extra shipping costs (if they even ship to Europe). i'll surely have a look.
> though i should say i'd started leaning towards SS amps. (less colouring of sound and good performance no matter the volume level.)
> 
> i'm still looking into different headphones, amps, dacs and many basics like power, impedance, clipping, cables, sound colouring in general, tube vs solid-state. research is going slow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> currently i'm wondering if i should first pick the headphones(?) before looking at DACs and amps, because i'm getting the impression that having picked the headphones would help deciding which amp/DAC i want (due to the synergie between hardware components).
> 
> thanks again for the help :j


Ah, didn't see you were EU-based. I know the amp itself is a pain in the bottom to ship. BUT, should you decide to go that route, I think there are plenty of people within a good driving/traveling distance that could help you put one together. I think in parts it's $250 at the cheapest.


----------



## bumblebee1980

try the second hand market. I live in Canada and still import.. it's just something you have to deal with. I usually buy my Sennheiser headphones from Razordog (authorized reseller) because they mark the value down low as possible, ship worldwide and have promo codes. you used to be able to get the Sennheiser HD650 for like $420 USD.

headphones -> amp -> d/a converter


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dragonsyph*
> 
> Ok thanks, ill do a read over then.


I'll do an update soon as well (when I'm not busy...damn a thing called 'real life').


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> bumblebee1980, pez,
> thanks for the posts :j
> 
> i'm in Europe, so it would depend on the extra shipping costs (if they even ship to Europe). i'll surely have a look.
> though i should say i'd started leaning towards SS amps. (less colouring of sound and good performance no matter the volume level.)
> 
> i'm still looking into different headphones, amps, dacs and many basics like power, impedance, clipping, cables, sound colouring in general, tube vs solid-state. research is going slow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> currently i'm wondering if i should first pick the headphones(?) before looking at DACs and amps, because i'm getting the impression that having picked the headphones would help deciding which amp/DAC i want (due to the synergie between hardware components).
> 
> thanks again for the help :j


Argh, you should have said that on your first post...
Because european market is completely different compared to the 'murica.
For example the HE-400 costs $300 in 'murica but it usually costs $420 in Europe, with all the discounts included!
And all Schiit products are basically 70% more expensive. Even if you import it from 'murica the price is still high because of VAT, possible customs and shipping fees.

It would mean a world to us if you said where you are from. Inside EU = Any shop that is within EU can be used without extra taxes/customs.
Or make a new post based on this.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Ah, didn't see you were EU-based. I know the amp itself is a pain in the bottom to ship. BUT, should you decide to go that route, I think there are plenty of people within a good driving/traveling distance that could help you put one together. I think in parts it's $250 at the cheapest.


i never thought of mentioning it, sorry :x
but i'll have a look at availability/prices, thanks :j
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> try the second hand market. I live in Canada and still import.. it's just something you have to deal with. I usually buy my Sennheiser headphones from Razordog (authorized reseller) because they mark the value down low as possible, ship worldwide and have promo codes. you used to be able to get the Sennheiser HD650 for like $420 USD.
> 
> headphones -> amp -> d/a converter


i guess i'll check out prices/availability of headphones first, then :j i particularly liked the reviews on the HD600, but (unfortunately) it's not exactly the only good pair of headphones out there








also; where/how could i check this Razordog's store/list out? i suppose i should have a look, since he ships worldwide :j
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Argh, you should have said that on your first post...
> Because european market is completely different compared to the 'murica.
> For example the HE-400 costs $300 in 'murica but it usually costs $420 in Europe, with all the discounts included!
> And all Schiit products are basically 70% more expensive. Even if you import it from 'murica the price is still high because of VAT, possible customs and shipping fees.
> 
> It would mean a world to us if you said where you are from. Inside EU = Any shop that is within EU can be used without extra taxes/customs.
> Or make a new post based on this.


didn't really think of all that.. but you're right, there's definitely a significant difference :/

i'll be looking up prices and availability of everything suggested again, when i have some time.
thanks for all the help







awesome


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i never thought of mentioning it, sorry :x
> but i'll have a look at availability/prices, thanks :j
> i guess i'll check out prices/availability of headphones first, then :j i particularly liked the reviews on the HD600, but (unfortunately) it's not exactly the only good pair of headphones out there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also; where/how could i check this Razordog's store/list out? i suppose i should have a look, since he ships worldwide :j
> didn't really think of all that.. but you're right, there's definitely a significant difference :/
> 
> i'll be looking up prices and availability of everything suggested again, when i have some time.
> thanks for all the help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awesome


looks like Razordog is out of stock.

http://www.razordogaudio.com/

check Sennheiser HD6XX threads on Head-Fi to see where people are buying them the cheapest.


----------



## BoredErica

What is the best speaker setup that can be had for ~$1500? Two speakers and a sub? If they are passive, an amp is needed.


----------



## bumblebee1980

that depends on the room dimensions and how many separates you need.


----------



## bumblebee1980

also depends how invested you are

you can get more if you make your own speaker cables and acoustic treatment..if you even want to learn how to measure a room properly.


----------



## BoredErica

I'm interested in just the speakers for now - panel cost extra on top of the $1500 cost. Let's just say, a 30 ft by 20ft room.


----------



## bumblebee1980

I still need the shape, how high are the ceilings and what kind of floors not that it matters because I don't think I can pull it off with that budget. maybe someone else can help you


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bumblebee1980*
> 
> I still need the shape, how high are the ceilings and what kind of floors not that it matters because I don't think I can pull it off with that budget. maybe someone else can help you


No worries, this is out of curiosity at this point.


----------



## Barbecuesaus

*removed*


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone!

I have just set up my new O2+ODAC combo and DT990 Pro 250 Ohm headphones. It would be really helpful if you could please help me out with the following matters.

i) Do I need to download drivers for the O2+ODAC combo? If so, where can I find it?
ii) If there is no driver available, how can I configure the setup to get the best quality of sound?

Thank you.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have just set up my new O2+ODAC combo and DT990 Pro 250 Ohm headphones. It would be really helpful if you could please help me out with the following matters.
> 
> i) Do I need to download drivers for the O2+ODAC combo? If so, where can I find it?
> ii) If there is no driver available, how can I configure the setup to get the best quality of sound?
> 
> Thank you.


No drivers. The quality should be optimal from the start.
You can use equalizer (from music player/etc.) to fix the shortcomings of the headphones.

Although you should check if the windows settings are properly set from the audio devices.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> No drivers. The quality should be optimal from the start.
> You can use equalizer (from music player/etc.) to fix the shortcomings of the headphones.
> 
> Although you should *check if the windows settings are properly set from the audio devices*.


How do I do that?


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> No drivers. The quality should be optimal from the start.
> You can use equalizer (from music player/etc.) to fix the shortcomings of the headphones.
> 
> Although you should *check if the windows settings are properly set from the audio devices*.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I do that?
Click to expand...

Right-click on the speaker icon in the task-bar. Select playback devices. Select the device that you want to use for your audio playback, click properties. (And make sure it is set to default).


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Right-click on the speaker icon in the task-bar. Select playback devices. Select the device that you want to use for your audio playback, click properties. (And make sure it is set to default).


Done! Is there anything else I should do?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Done! Is there anything else I should do?


I'm lazy so I'll just throw the JDS labs manual








O2+ODAC instructions


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I'm lazy so I'll just throw the JDS labs manual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O2+ODAC instructions


Thank you very much!


----------



## chinesekiwi

mmm...need to re write this guide. Not enough time :/

Added the Audio Technica ADG-1 in the meanwhile.


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have just set up my new O2+ODAC combo and DT990 Pro 250 Ohm headphones. It would be really helpful if you could please help me out with the following matters.
> 
> i) Do I need to download drivers for the O2+ODAC combo? If so, where can I find it?
> ii) If there is no driver available, how can I configure the setup to get the best quality of sound?
> 
> Thank you.


1) You could try an ASIO driver, but best would be a Windows Kernel Streaming driver.
2) For music playback (only), JPlay.


----------



## chinesekiwi

no need for drivers for the ODAC. Uses UAC1 USB driver, which is built-in into Windows and Mac OSX and if you have Vista and up, WASAPI is more than fine for playback.

Short answer: No, just plug and play, make sure the OS detects the ODAC and switch the default output device to it if needed.


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> I is more than fine for playback.


I'm not saying what is just fine for playback, but what is best.

I realize that not all systems will benefit from these "tweaks", but a system that lets you hear the sound of the drum sticks hitting the skins (in addition to the sound the drum makes) then these tweaks will make an improvement.


----------



## DVLux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *billbartuska*
> 
> I'm not saying what is just fine for playback, but what is best.
> 
> I realize that not all systems will benefit from these "tweaks", but a system that lets you hear the sound of the drum sticks hitting the skins (in addition to the sound the drum makes) then these tweaks will make an improvement.


An ASIO driver won't let you "hear more".


----------



## Mr240sx

Call me lazy if you wish, but is this guide updated for 2014 ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr240sx*
> 
> Call me lazy if you wish, but is this guide updated for 2014 ?


yes but needs further updating when I have time.


----------



## BoredErica

So uhm... where is the consensus here on ASIO drivers? What exactly does it do?


----------



## pez

Foobar documentation of the ASIO says it should make no difference and their plugin is outdated I believe. I run it on Foobar and notice no real difference (I'm sure anything that I think I do is probably bias). However, if it's going to use it as a means to 'hardware acceleration', I'm all for it.


----------



## BoredErica

I'm curious if ASIO has uses outside of Foobar? Maybe other media players or even gaming?

Now I think of it, it's time to dig around at Foobar ASIO stuff on Google.


----------



## chinesekiwi

ASIO is to reduce / control playback latency, which is vital for *recording* purposes. In the past it was also used to bypass the Windows Kmixer (Windows XP and before), a thing that actually affected sound quality and to bypass Windows / program sounds. With the introduction WASAPI in Windows Vista, this is not an issue anymore nor is latency ever (outside extremes) for audio playback.

Short answer: Zero point using Kernel Streaming or ASIO for music playback anymore in 99.99999999% of cases.


----------



## djriful

-delete-


----------



## Tagkaman

Any recommendations for earphones? I need a pair that I can carry around in my pocket whilst still having reasonable sound.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Any recommendations for earphones? I need a pair that I can carry around in my pocket whilst still having reasonable sound.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1466090/totally-dubbed-and-inearspace-iem-awards-2013


----------



## Tagkaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1466090/totally-dubbed-and-inearspace-iem-awards-2013


Thanks!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Hi guys,

three day weekend here so I might actually update this thread and if you really want, 'de-Simca' it.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> three day weekend here so I might actually update this thread and if you really want, 'de-Simca' it.


'de-Simca'?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> three day weekend here so I might actually update this thread and if you really want, 'de-Simca' it.


I vote for less silly title graphics and the complete removal of the terrible pioneer bs21 recommendation. The Micca MB42x would be my vote for a MUCH better replacement.


----------



## BoredErica

Sennheiser PC360 are not $160 anymore.

Needs more detailed info on higher end speakers/headphones. I see you did some work already.

Quote:


> *$1200+ - Audeze LCD-2, Sennheiser HD800, HiFiMAN HE-6*
> 
> 
> 
> Flagship headphones for almost all these brands. Audeze has the LCD-3 now and Sennheiser does have some electrostatic headphones, but these are the main 3 in this price range. The HD800s are mostly known for their very revealing, detailed nature and wide soundstage. The LCD-2s are known for their bass, their vocal lushness and rolled off highs. The HE-6s are excellent at everything.


Don't forget to note that the HE-6s are HARD to drive properly. HD800s are bright. Some consider LCD3s to be a bit heavy. What about the T1?

Also the Hifiman lineup got updated a bit.

Something like Vmoda, or the $50 CHC Silverados are contenders for being on the list.

Speakers section dies after $300 price range.

If I am a buyer I don't know whether to go with passive or active speakers based on this guide.


----------



## Aventadoor

Isent the Sennheiser PC360 and G4ME Zero exactly the same, just some new design, new cable?


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Isent the Sennheiser PC360 and G4ME Zero exactly the same, just some new design, new cable?


no idea.

the G4ME One impedance is 50 ohm like the PC360 and HD5xx. the G4ME Zero impedance is 150 ohm like the PC350/SE.


----------



## cdoublejj

can the, "_$285 NwAvGuy Objective DAC (ODAC) + NwAvGuy O2 Headphone Amplifier combo_" out put to speakers and headphones and let choose between them like my sounds card does?


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> can the, "$285 NwAvGuy Objective DAC (ODAC) + NwAvGuy O2 Headphone Amplifier combo" out put to speakers and headphones and let choose between them like my sounds card does?


Don't think so. You'll have to buy an aftermarket solution. I think there's a cheap one for $15.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> can the, "_$285 NwAvGuy Objective DAC (ODAC) + NwAvGuy O2 Headphone Amplifier combo_" out put to speakers and headphones and let choose between them like my sounds card does?


No. You will need an additional switch box. The O2 amp only supports a single 3.5mm output. I personally use this switch box. There are some cheaper ones, but I prefer this one because it allows me to use my own cables.


----------



## cdoublejj

any thing in 100-150 USD range?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1493440/pcie-sound-card-s-comparable-or-better-thant-xonar-d1-without-external-power-connector#post_22358523


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> any thing in 100-150 USD range?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1493440/pcie-sound-card-s-comparable-or-better-thant-xonar-d1-without-external-power-connector#post_22358523


https://www.massdrop.com/buy/audioengine-d1

This will probably be your best bet.


----------



## BenJaminJr

Would anyone still say a Xonar DX is worth it? Or should I keep saving


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> Would anyone still say a Xonar DX is worth it? Or should I keep saving


Personally, I don't see the point of going above a Xonar DG, but I am sure many may dispute that. That said, I personally don't like sound cards. My rigs still rock either a Xonar DG or X-Fi XtremeMusic.


----------



## BenJaminJr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Personally, I don't see the point of going above a Xonar DG, but I am sure many may dispute that. That said, I personally don't like sound cards. My rigs still rock either a Xonar DG or X-Fi XtremeMusic.


I am for sure going to get an external setup, but I was just seeing for a temporary fix for overall PC sound improvement,


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> I am for sure going to get an external setup, but I was just seeing for a temporary fix for overall PC sound improvement,


If you need a temp sound fix, just use a Xonar DG. They are like sub $20 usually.


----------



## Triniboi82

Hey guys quick question, seeing the DT 990 pro on sale & I'm a bit tempted to grab it. Was wondering if these would be a significant improvement over my current cans, Ultrasone pro 550. I mainly game & watch movies with some music in between. I'm really pleased with my pro 550s but have read alot about the comfort of the dt 990s & it being open backed which means a wider sound stage, great benefit for fpses. I'll be using a sound blaster Z to power them but will eventually get an additional amp if I decide to buy.

Any opinions on the matter is appreciated, thanks


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Triniboi82*
> 
> Hey guys quick question, seeing the DT 990 pro on sale & I'm a bit tempted to grab it. Was wondering if these would be a significant improvement over my current cans, Ultrasone pro 550. I mainly game & watch movies with some music in between. I'm really pleased with my pro 550s but have read alot about the comfort of the dt 990s & it being open backed which means a wider sound stage, great benefit for fpses. I'll be using a sound blaster Z to power them but will eventually get an additional amp if I decide to buy.
> 
> Any opinions on the matter is appreciated, thanks


I haven't heard the Pro 550 myself, but there tend to be diverging opinions on a lot of Ultrasones. I think the sound has a relatively strong dependence on how the cans seal to your head for frequencies below 300 Hz and some significant sample-to-sample variance, so it really depends. Both kind of share some features generally: something of a midbass hump and maybe something of a sparkle or spike in the high treble.

DT 990 is overall probably better and more consistent, so you can try going for it.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Last time I tried a pair of Ultrasones it felt like my brain was about to get rattled out of my mouth.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> I haven't heard the Pro 550 myself, but there tend to be diverging opinions on a lot of Ultrasones. I think the sound has a relatively strong dependence on how the cans seal to your head for frequencies below 300 Hz and some significant sample-to-sample variance, so it really depends. Both kind of share some features generally: something of a midbass hump and maybe something of a sparkle or spike in the high treble.
> 
> DT 990 is overall probably better and more consistent, so you can try going for it.


Well I decided to go ahead with the DT 990, for the price I got them for ($150US) seemed to good of a deal to pass up. Wish I could've afforded the premiums, they look so sweet. Anyway from all the reviews about these cans I totally agree with you that they're probably the better set. Thanks for your input


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/audioengine-d1
> 
> This will probably be your best bet.


does the D1 require a separate amp? does it also need a $1 5- $30 3.5mm switch? is the sounds quality good as in compared to my Xonar D1 sound card? does it have a decent SnB? what is the SnB? Sorry to hammer you with so many questions.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

It has a built in amp. I don't know if it switches when the headphone jack is in use. By all accounts, it should sound cleaner and clearer. Better is subjective, but it should sound better too. NP!


----------



## opi

Can someone tell me if I should go with the M-Audio AV40? I have a titanium HD soundcard and I know very little in this area. My budget is 100-150$. And its on amazon for $120


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opi*
> 
> Can someone tell me if I should go with the M-Audio AV40? I have a titanium HD soundcard and I know very little in this area. My budget is 100-150$. And its on amazon for $120


They should be very good. Only better bet would be finding some passive speakers and an amp used on craigslist.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> They should be very good. Only better bet would be finding some passive speakers and an amp used on craigslist.


I concur. It would be a better investment if you ever wanted to upgrade speakers and the AV40s tend to run a little hot. While not bad there are still better alternatives like the Swans D1010IV.

You can buy some cheap speakers new. Like the Mica MB42x, Pioneer SP-BS21 (I've seen Walmarts and Frys still still sell them), or Insignia NS-SP213 (do need a sub for the lower end though).


----------



## kbros

Quick noob question. If I hook a receiver up to my computer with optical will it "become" a DAC?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kbros*
> 
> Quick noob question. If I hook a receiver up to my computer with optical will it "become" a DAC?


In a sense. Anything that processes digital audio is a DAC.


----------



## opi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> I concur. It would be a better investment if you ever wanted to upgrade speakers and the AV40s tend to run a little hot. While not bad there are still better alternatives like the Swans D1010IV.
> 
> You can buy some cheap speakers new. Like the Mica MB42x, Pioneer SP-BS21 (I've seen Walmarts and Frys still still sell them), or Insignia NS-SP213 (do need a sub for the lower end though).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> They should be very good. Only better bet would be finding some passive speakers and an amp used on craigslist.


Thanks for the replies. I would like to get a DAC setup but I don't want to spend more money than $150. And I just dont trust craigslist at all.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Cl is far better than ebay. Get to meet face to face, make sure the guy isn't some low-life scumbag, and you'll probably be fine.

No offense to any low-life scumbags.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Cl is far better than ebay. Get to meet face to face, make sure the guy isn't some low-life scumbag, and you'll probably be fine.
> 
> No offense to any low-life scumbags.


Sometimes you can also get an idea of where they live. So if you get screwed over, you can call the cops.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Cl is far better than ebay. Get to meet face to face, make sure the guy isn't some low-life scumbag, and you'll probably be fine.
> 
> No offense to any low-life scumbags.


This is why you meet at like walmart or best buy or some neutral ground if you can. If you do have to invite them to your house/apartment, you can not so subtly leave your self-defense items in plain view and subtly suggest that if the odds are that they were some serial killer or robber that it would be crazy if you were one too!


----------



## nvidiaftw12

I suppose. Maybe in big cities that's an issue, but down here you generally never worry about that. We've had loads of transactions, never had any problems.


----------



## phillyd

Yeah I've had decent luck with Craigslist.


----------



## Levelog

I got a Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer PCI card for free today, worth it over onboard?


----------



## Haruspex

Anyone ever tried the Samson media one 4a? Supposedly they are comparable to m-audio av40 or so i read.

I would have settled for the av40s but i am concerned about the mark II version because i heard it's inferior to mark I.

Unless anyone have other active speakers to recommend at around 150 euros.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> I got a Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer PCI card for free today, worth it over onboard?


It definitely is for free. Disable any enhancements and effects, though.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> It definitely is for free. Disable any enhancements and effects, though.


Alright. Now comes the fun of getting it to work with 8.1


----------



## chinesekiwi

Yes, I am slowly re-working this thread into a brand new version so it'll be better


----------



## Tiihokatti

Listening to Microlab Solo8c at the moment. Pretty good for the price + connectivity.
They are perfect for a budget HTPC+PS3+TV audio setup with the remote and 2x analog and 2x digital connections. Much better than my old Behringerin MS40 which had similar connections, especially the treble is very good compared to the MS40.

Need to do more listening.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> Alright. Now comes the fun of getting it to work with 8.1


I don't think this is going to happen. It doesn't even show up in device manager, and none of the drivers I've tried work.


----------



## austinmrs

What about new Hyperx Clould Headset?


----------



## BoredErica

Been listening to the bass on my Krk Rokit g6s compared to Krk Rokit g6s hooked up to Logitech z2300 subwoofer. Low end on Rokit g6s alone is a bit less than I want but is more detailed than the Logitech's sub for sure. In the end though, I decided to go for the Rokit + Sub configuration. If I wanted to critically listen that much, I'll just switch to headphones.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Been listening to the bass on my Krk Rokit g6s compared to Krk Rokit g6s hooked up to Logitech z2300 subwoofer. Low end on Rokit g6s alone is a bit less than I want but is more detailed than the Logitech's sub for sure. In the end though, I decided to go for the Rokit + Sub configuration. If I wanted to critically listen that much, I'll just switch to headphones.


I was in the same place with my A5+ and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 sub. The 5" drivers on the A5+ just could not go low enough for me. My M-Audio BX8, however...


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I was in the same place with my A5+ and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 sub. The 5" drivers on the A5+ just could not go low enough for me. My M-Audio BX8, however...


8 3/4" or nothing









EDIT: OK, Microlab Solo8c bass is decent too with 6,5"


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> I was in the same place with my A5+ and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 sub. The 5" drivers on the A5+ just could not go low enough for me. My M-Audio BX8, however...
> 
> 
> 
> 8 3/4" or nothing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: OK, Microlab Solo8c bass is decent too with 6,5"
Click to expand...

Yeah these M-Audio BX8's handle the low-end well enough that I'm not at all tempted to hook up a cheap sub. I'll wait until I want to spend $500+ and get some passive 3-way speakers and find a nice stereo receiver on craigslist. Not sure I'll have a subwoofer for a long time.


----------



## BenJaminJr

Going to be receiving a schiit vali tomorrow, I am excite.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> Going to be receiving a schiit vali tomorrow, I am excite.


It's going to be the Schiit!


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> It's going to be the Schiit!


----------



## Magical Eskimo




----------



## BenJaminJr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> It's going to be the Schiit!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*


I'm excited as schiit m8!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> I'm excited as schiit m8!


It's a shame that you can't get Schiit from Europe (that isn't overpriced).
Oh well, Schiit happens.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> I'm excited as schiit m8!


You are going to use this Schiit and be like "Holy Schiit! This Schiit sounds like the Schiit!" Ok... that's enough Schiit for one day!


----------



## pez

Lol....you guys.


----------



## BenJaminJr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Lol....you guys.


Lol at least the guys in here can laugh.

Just hooked it up and have been listening for a little. It gets LOUD. Pc volume at 70, and just half way is loud. Has a ton of bass too, I have to turn down all my eq bass settings. Overall im happy. I use A900x's and them seem to love the extra power.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BenJaminJr*
> 
> Lol at least the guys in here can laugh.
> 
> Just hooked it up and have been listening for a little. It gets LOUD. Pc volume at 70, and just half way is loud. Has a ton of bass too, I have to turn down all my eq bass settings. Overall im happy. I use A900x's and them seem to love the extra power.


For best results have volume on your PC turned up all the way and control the volume from the amp.


----------



## austinmrs

I've already asked, but since nobody answered, i will ask again









What is your opinion on the new HyperX Cloud Headset?


----------



## BenJaminJr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> For best results have volume on your PC turned up all the way and control the volume from the amp.


Will do! I still want to get the Modi, but that may be a while as this sounds good already


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> I've already asked, but since nobody answered, i will ask again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your opinion on the new HyperX Cloud Headset?


In general, headsets are a waste of money. I doubt anyone here knows anything about it.


----------



## austinmrs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> In general, headsets are a waste of money. I doubt anyone here knows anything about it.


I think Logan from TekSyndicate knows a bit of audio. On his review, he talked a lot of goods about this headset, and said that the quality of this headset was already on the "headphones" level, not on the headset level anymore.. 53mm drivers.

Thats why im asking your opinion here


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> In general, headsets are a waste of money. I doubt anyone here knows anything about it.


I know!

AFAIK it's rebranded/modified version of Takstar Pro 80/Gemini HSR-1000/QPAD QH-90.
Should be decent. If I remember correctly there are more than few guys here in OCN who own the Takstars.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> I think Logan from TekSyndicate knows a bit of audio. On his review, he talked a lot of goods about this headset, and said that the quality of this headset was already on the "headphones" level, not on the headset level anymore.. 53mm drivers.
> 
> Thats why im asking your opinion here


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Logan of Tek is not the best person to get any information about audiophile gear.

Read this link to understand why he isn't an audiophile and has limited knowledge about it:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1452181/tek-syndicate-put-up-a-hilariously-misinformed-video-this-week-saying-all-soundcards-are-crap/0_20

He's just a host of a tech show that reads stuff on the internet and then declares it gospel (without doing proper research or even understanding and studying the subject matter in depth first - at least for audio)!


----------



## phillyd

Tek is quite wrong about many things. I wouldn't really trust him about anything.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Tek is quite wrong about many things. I wouldn't really trust him about anything.


I didn't want to be too harsh about Tek but I would have to agree that they are very biased and just please their sponsors to the point that they don't care if they give out false information to their "fans".


----------



## Levelog

So I'm about to pick up some HARX700's on payday, but I just saw the Senn HD360 pro's on sale for $40. Worth the money?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> So I'm about to pick up some HARX700's on payday, but I just saw the Senn HD360 pro's on sale for $40. Worth the money?


I haven't listened to the HD360 pro. But after owning both, IMO the Samson SR850 is worth the extra $20 over the HARX700. The Samson's sound bright though so make sure you're ok/like that.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I haven't listened to the HD360 pro. But after owning both, IMO the Samson SR850 is worth the extra $20 over the HARX700. The Samson's sound bright though so make sure you're ok/like that.


The samsons seem a bit.. small.


----------



## pez

No clue about the others...the Sennheiser HD 380 are really good, but no clue about the 360. The JVCs are good if you can get them for 50 or less.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> No clue about the others...the Sennheiser HD 380 are really good, but no clue about the 360. The JVCs are good if you can get them for 50 or less.


Looking at the JVC's for $34


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> Looking at the JVC's for $34


I say you'd be hard pressed to be disappointed with the JVCs at that price point.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I say you'd be hard pressed to be disappointed with the JVCs at that price point.


I'd be hard pressed to be disappointed with any headset coming from my extremely uncomfortable creative Fatal1ty's


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> I'd be hard pressed to be disappointed with any headset coming from my extremely uncomfortable creative Fatal1ty's


Lol, very true. I just remembered the pair I gave to a friend is still going after some rather rough use. I used it again the last time I was over and was surprised about the bass they had (having forgot they even had any). Good soundstage on them for gaming.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I didn't want to be too harsh about Tek but I would have to agree that they are very biased and just please their sponsors to the point that they don't care if they give out false information to their "fans".


You have to consider the significant possibility that Logan believes what he says. Not quite sure why fans is in quotation marks, either.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> You have to consider the significant possibility that Logan believes what he says. Not quite sure why fans is in quotation marks, either.


I get that, but It still doesn't make it ok that misinformation/half truths/partial truths are spread to the people that follow Tek. When I say "fans", I just mean people who follow Tek Syndicate and treat everything they say as gospel, nothing more nothing less.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I get that, but It still doesn't make it ok that misinformation/half truths/partial truths are spread to the people that follow Tek. When I say "fans", I just mean people who follow Tek Syndicate and treat everything they say as gospel, nothing more nothing less.


You wanna visit my van?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> You wanna visit my van?


Serious question, what does that have to do with my statement? You a fan of Tek Syndicate? Good on you then, because it means you're not one of the "fans" that watch them and defend them without doing your own research!

By the way, nice container van!


----------



## BoredErica

It's got absolutely nothing to do with your statement.







That's the beauty.

I don't know if I'm a Tek Syndicate fan. I do like some of their content, moreso in the past. Their mug looks pretty sick though. I think Logan's video has multiple issues with it but it gets the gist of it right considering the target audience. That's not a proper excuse to say incorrect things and then not bother to do a response video, but it's still far better than some of the people I can think of in the audio world.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Fair enough! Agreed on a lot of things, but agree to disagree on a few! I guess in a way they are better than some other people but still don't agree that they are far better, considering the wrong info they are still spewing!









I don't know if that makes sense to you but I do respect your train of thought!


----------



## CaucasianAsian

Could anyone comment on using the onboard sound from an Asus Z97-Pro with headphones like the Audio Technica AD700X or Audio Technica AD900X? I'm looking to get headphones in the $150-$200 price range. I know most headphones would require something like a Schiit stack, (which I do plan on getting eventually) but I was wondering if the Crystal Audio 2 from the motherboard would be enough to hold me over for a little while. (have a lot of things I'm trying to clear off my Amazon wish list. haha)


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaucasianAsian*
> 
> Could anyone comment on using the onboard sound from an Asus Z97-Pro with headphones like the Audio Technica AD700X or Audio Technica AD900X? I'm looking to get headphones in the $150-$200 price range. I know most headphones would require something like a Schiit stack, (which I do plan on getting eventually) but I was wondering if the Crystal Audio 2 from the motherboard would be enough to hold me over for a little while. (have a lot of things I'm trying to clear off my Amazon wish list. haha)


It's no better than the rest of the pack but the headphones should keep you happy for a while until you save for a DAC/amp.


----------



## kenthkristoffer

I'm a newbie.
Is the Asus Xonar DG better than my onboard ALC662?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kenthkristoffer*
> 
> I'm a newbie.
> Is the Asus Xonar DG better than my onboard ALC662?


Short and sweet...Yes!

The long answer...

I had a mobo with the ALC662 (Biostar H61) and audio sounded thin with no meat to it. I've had a listen to one of my mates PC with the Asus Xonar DG and it sounded way better than the ALC662 (that I remember).


----------



## cricai

I upgraded from $30 panasonic headphones to HD595's, no DAC or amp. I can't tell too much of a difference, but the HD595's are much more immersive. Do you think that my ears aren't sensitive enough for better headphones or DAC, or that my setup isn't good enough?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cricai*
> 
> I upgraded from $30 panasonic headphones to HD595's, no DAC or amp. I can't tell too much of a difference, but the HD595's are much more immersive. Do you think that my ears aren't sensitive enough for better headphones or DAC, or that my setup isn't good enough?


What are you sourcing them with? What quality are the files? What genres of music?


----------



## cricai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> What are you sourcing them with? What quality are the files? What genres of music?


Source is a laptop, not sure what soundcard. Audio files are flacs. Mainly classical, some dnb


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cricai*
> 
> Source is a laptop, not sure what soundcard. Audio files are flacs. Mainly classical, some dnb


Make sure any audio altering features are turned off in your sound card software. Also make sure that the bit depth and sample rate are set to match the music files.

I'm surprised you haven't noticed a big improvement in the mid range as well as clarity in the treble and accuracy in the bass.


----------



## silvrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> The long answer...
> 
> I had a mobo with the ALC662 (Biostar H61) and audio sounded thin with no meat to it. I've had a listen to one of my mates PC with the Asus Xonar DG and it sounded way better than the ALC662 (that I remember).


All other factors were the same? Same music, amp, speakers? Even the room? Otherwise your comparison is kinda pointless.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silvrr*
> 
> All other factors were the same? Same music, amp, speakers? Even the room? Otherwise your comparison is kinda pointless.


It was just straight listening from the headphone jack of both mobos using the same headphone. HD518 and same flac files were used using VLC with no EQing was used for the test / comparison.


----------



## Levelog

Finally got those JVC HARX700's. Quite happy. Large. Fits my ears.


----------



## pez

Good to hear! It's all gotta start somewhere







.


----------



## anarchy998

Don't get too much into it, audio gear can be more expensive than computer gear, lol. I really started getting into audio with a cheaper pair of sennheisers and using onboard audio on an nforce 650i sli board. I now still use the tried and true xonar essence stx board with 2x dual lme49990 op-amps on sennheiser hd 650 and up headphones with upgraded cords from moon audio. Loving every bit of it, onboard audio doesn't hold a candle to it.


----------



## DVLux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Good to hear! It's all gotta start somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It also has to end somewhere... Hopefully not in the van down by the river.


----------



## pez

Well that escalated quickly...


----------



## billbartuska

New audio stuff isn't a single purchase, it's just a stop along the way.


----------



## VanillaCena

I'm currently using my headphones with an Asus Xonar DG.

I have an Onkyo home theater amp from this set. Would I be better off just using the receiver as a dac/amp? If so, would I want to run audio through my GPU's HDMI, or through onboard/soundcards optical out?

I'm considering a Schiit dac and amp, but was wondering if this option would be just as good.


----------



## Tenhunter

Noticed you recommendCreative Titanium HD as a great option around $80.00 but all I am finding for these is listed at $150+, am I looking at the wrong card?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VanillaCena*
> 
> I'm currently using my headphones with an Asus Xonar DG.
> 
> I have an Onkyo home theater amp from this set. Would I be better off just using the receiver as a dac/amp? If so, would I want to run audio through my GPU's HDMI, or through onboard/soundcards optical out?
> 
> I'm considering a Schiit dac and amp, but was wondering if this option would be just as good.


Why not test the receiver yourself? HDMI is mandatory if you want 7.1 sound but optical works fine for headphones.
And what headphones are you talking about?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tenhunter*
> 
> Noticed you recommendCreative Titanium HD as a great option around $80.00 but all I am finding for these is listed at $150+, am I looking at the wrong card?


The TiHD is discontinued so the prices should be as low as $80 depending on the store. But most likely too much time has passed since it was discontinued so all $80 cards are out of stock.


----------



## VanillaCena

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Why not test the receiver yourself? HDMI is mandatory if you want 7.1 sound but optical works fine for headphones.
> And what headphones are you talking about?


JVC HA-RX700s, but I'll be purchasing another set soon.


----------



## Tenhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> The TiHD is discontinued so the prices should be as low as $80 depending on the store. But most likely too much time has passed since it was discontinued so all $80 cards are out of stock.


OK so I will assume that we are talking about this card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033

Not this card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024

If that is the case the TiHD is simply more expensive than a Xonar STX, in that case should I not just get the Xonar?

I am using the Audio Technica ATHADG1 currently with a Xonar DSX and am considering upgrading.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tenhunter*
> 
> OK so I will assume that we are talking about this card:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
> 
> Not this card:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024
> 
> If that is the case the TiHD is simply more expensive than a Xonar STX, in that case should I not just get the Xonar?
> 
> I am using the Audio Technica ATHADG1 currently with a Xonar DSX and am considering upgrading.


Sound Blaster Z or the Xonar STX.
STX has Dolby Headphones while SBZ has SBX Surround.


Spoiler: Demo











Another (recommended) option would be to wait for Audioengine D1 or Aune T1 sales to pop up in Massdrop. Or get the usual Schiit Modi+Magni stack.
Although they don't have mic inputs... Blah


----------



## rnbdillon

Okay, i did some research on the forums. Im mainly a gamer but love my music as well, so i want the best possible sound for a price range that is limited (wife would not be appreciative of me getting a 300$ headset even tho i want one really really bad).

So, i'm currently using a cheap pair of headset and a decent logitech 2.1 speaker setup. I'm wanting a sound card and upgrade my headset for now. Speakers upgrade will come later.

My budget for sound card is 1-100$. For the headset is 1-125$. I also heard you guys/gals can suggest a good clip on mic that would work well as well (clip on mic 1-40$ range)

I'm not an FPS player, Mainly MMORPG, RPGs, Offline play, Music, and MUSIC (techno, bass, rock)

Questions:
1. I'm currently looking into the sound blaster z for sound card but saw that it supports 5.1 really well but not so much 2.1, so was gonna ask if its worth getting for the headset purchase?

2. I'm currently looking at Skull Candy Plyr headsets and Creative Aurvana Live Headsets, would these be a good pick for sound blaster z or is there something more in my price range (i had another headset that had amazing reviews on the headset review list, but now they are OOS and selling on amazon for almost double the price)?

3. what is a good quality clip on mic (almost sounds redundant, but from your posts its not only NOT redundant, it is actually better than most)

Sorry for the long posts







figured this would be better than making own thread again


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rnbdillon*
> 
> Okay, i did some research on the forums. Im mainly a gamer but love my music as well, so i want the best possible sound for a price range that is limited (wife would not be appreciative of me getting a 300$ headset even tho i want one really really bad).
> 
> So, i'm currently using a cheap pair of headset and a decent logitech 2.1 speaker setup. I'm wanting a sound card and upgrade my headset for now. Speakers upgrade will come later.
> 
> My budget for sound card is 1-100$. For the headset is 1-125$. I also heard you guys/gals can suggest a good clip on mic that would work well as well (clip on mic 1-40$ range)
> 
> I'm not an FPS player, Mainly MMORPG, RPGs, Offline play, Music, and MUSIC (techno, bass, rock)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I'm currently looking into the sound blaster z for sound card but saw that it supports 5.1 really well but not so much 2.1, so was gonna ask if its worth getting for the headset purchase?
> 
> 2. I'm currently looking at Skull Candy Plyr headsets and Creative Aurvana Live Headsets, would these be a good pick for sound blaster z or is there something more in my price range (i had another headset that had amazing reviews on the headset review list, but now they are OOS and selling on amazon for almost double the price)?
> 
> 3. what is a good quality clip on mic (almost sounds redundant, but from your posts its not only NOT redundant, it is actually better than most)
> 
> Sorry for the long posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> figured this would be better than making own thread again


MLEHGG

1. SBZ is good for gaming with headphones *and* speakers. I have absolutely no idea what you mean with the first question... It makes no sense.

2. Check the MLEHGG link.

3. Check the MLEHGG link (bottom part has reviews on different clip-on mics). Zalman is ok if you can position it well. I use a $2 ebay laptop mic that I have set up as a headset-mic for my DT770. Beats my Zalman clip-on.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## scatlm

How does the X-Fi Ti compare to the top tier HD version? I'm using a pair of Sennheiser 598's


----------



## rnbdillon

Thanks for the link! That first question was regarding sound blaster z. Mainly saying that I have a 2.1 speaker system and the sbz mainly supports 5.1, and if sbz was good enough to get JUST for my headphone upgrade for now till I upgrade my speakers in a year or two or is it better to find a different sound card


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rnbdillon*
> 
> Thanks for the link! That first question was regarding sound blaster z. Mainly saying that I have a 2.1 speaker system and the sbz mainly supports 5.1, and if sbz was good enough to get JUST for my headphone upgrade for now till I upgrade my speakers in a year or two or is it better to find a different sound card


Ugh... You are not making any sense. It doesn't matter if the SBZ is 5.1 or not, all that matters is the DAC used in the front L/R output.

If you want 2-channel soundcard/DAC like Xonar STX, you are STILL buying the card mainly to upgrade the headphone Sound. Speakers are seriously not that picky about what kind of DAC you use.

Hell, I'm using a Xonar D1 with Behringer B3031A 2.0 speakers. And they cost about $500 a pair.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rnbdillon*
> 
> Okay, i did some research on the forums. Im mainly a gamer but love my music as well, so i want the best possible sound for a price range that is limited (wife would not be appreciative of me getting a 300$ headset even tho i want one really really bad).
> 
> So, i'm currently using a cheap pair of headset and a decent logitech 2.1 speaker setup. I'm wanting a sound card and upgrade my headset for now. Speakers upgrade will come later.
> 
> My budget for sound card is 1-100$. For the headset is 1-125$. I also heard you guys/gals can suggest a good clip on mic that would work well as well (clip on mic 1-40$ range)
> 
> I'm not an FPS player, Mainly MMORPG, RPGs, Offline play, Music, and MUSIC (techno, bass, rock)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I'm currently looking into the sound blaster z for sound card but saw that it supports 5.1 really well but not so much 2.1, so was gonna ask if its worth getting for the headset purchase?
> 
> 2. I'm currently looking at Skull Candy Plyr headsets and Creative Aurvana Live Headsets, would these be a good pick for sound blaster z or is there something more in my price range (i had another headset that had amazing reviews on the headset review list, but now they are OOS and selling on amazon for almost double the price)?
> 
> 3. what is a good quality clip on mic (almost sounds redundant, but from your posts its not only NOT redundant, it is actually better than most)
> 
> Sorry for the long posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> figured this would be better than making own thread again


Any sound car that supports 5.1 is going to support 2.1. 5.1 just means there is more jacks/connections for additional speakers. Think of it like a motherboard that supports SLI. You don't have to run SLI, but you have the room to do so, should you feel the need. Your headphones will also work as 9 times out of 10 there is a dedicated headphone jack among those connections.

Click me.

Check out the product image that shows you the jacks/connections. The top jack is for your mic, the second one down is for a set of headphones. The other 3 ports are specifically for your speakers (2.1, 5.1, etc.).

As for recommendations, I'll keep away from the headphone recommendation as I haven't really been into that segment (<$125 range) for a while. As far as a mic, the ModMic 4.0 is a good choice. Slightly above budget for you, but you could save money on a sound car by going used, or getting something more budget friendly. As far as I've read, the newest line of Sound Blasters aren't that amazing. A used Titanium HD would be a good option, and there's even a couple Asus sound cards out there that are good (other members will have to chime in with specific models).

Totally Dubbed (a OCN and Headphone Club member) has a review on the ModMic and it's actually pretty impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4PGZCvUyKI

Posted his static fix vid. for relevance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scatlm*
> 
> How does the X-Fi Ti compare to the top tier HD version? I'm using a pair of Sennheiser 598's


Titanium HD is supposed to an 'audiophile-meets-gamer' card. I went from a XtremeMusic to Titanium HD and it was well worth it. Card has held up very well for me and is my main DAC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Ugh... You are not making any sense. It doesn't matter if the SBZ is 5.1 or not, all that matters is the DAC used in the front L/R output.
> 
> If you want 2-channel soundcard/DAC like Xonar STX, you are STILL buying the card mainly to upgrade the headphone Sound. Speakers are seriously not that picky about what kind of DAC you use.
> 
> Hell, I'm using a Xonar D1 with Behringer B3031A 2.0 speakers. And they cost about $500 a pair.


Calm down. Trying to be helpful and being irritated don't go together.


----------



## rnbdillon

Thanks Pez! that helped alot!


----------



## Crouch

Just ordered a Fiio E17 & will later get a Sennheiser HD 558! This is my first time getting into this stuff so don't mock my choices


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crouch*
> 
> Just ordered a Fiio E17 & will later get a Sennheiser HD 558! This is my first time getting into this stuff so don't mock my choices


Those are good choices, though you'll have to charge the E17 since it's a portable. But I'm sure you'll love the sound if this is your first venture into the higher end audio world.


----------



## Crouch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Those are good choices, though you'll have to charge the E17 since it's a portable. But I'm sure you'll love the sound if this is your first venture into the higher end audio world.


It is my first time! I'm really excited and can't wait till I get my hands on them


----------



## Tiihokatti

Swan M10 is $100 in Massdrop at the moment. If someone is in need of budget 2.1 PC-speakers.


----------



## Allan P

What speaker systems would you guys recommend that are $80 or under and on Amazon.com? The Creative T3130 that is listed on the first page is no longer available. I will mainly use the speakers for listening to music, watching movies and I guess playing games. My room is small but I would still like to have speakers that provide quality audio and I'm not an audiophile. Thanks for the help.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allan P*
> 
> What speaker systems would you guys recommend that are $80 or under and on Amazon.com? The Creative T3130 that is listed on the first page is no longer available. I will mainly use the speakers for listening to music, watching movies and I guess playing games. My room is small but I would still like to have speakers that provide quality audio and I'm not an audiophile. Thanks for the help.


Hm, you'd be dealing with a cheap sub or no sub at that price point. If you need movies to have that rumble, I guess you should go for a cheapo 2.1 system, I guess...

If you can stretch to $100 and wait a bit, there's that Swan M10 set right above. (Yes, that's not Amazon.)

Hm, a 2.0 system on Amazon could be had around that price. Let's see:
http://www.amazon.com/Micca-MB42-Bookshelf-Speakers-Tweeter/dp/B009IUIV4A
http://www.amazon.com/LP-2020A-Lepai-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI
http://www.amazon.com/GE-72618-25-Feet-Speaker-Wire/dp/B000W4CH78

I guess you could go for the Dayton B652 instead of the Micca MB42 (not to be confused with the MB42X, which has the crossover; note that the crossover can be bought standalone and used to upgrade an MB42 into the MB42X's sound), but including shipping they seem about the same.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allan P*
> 
> What speaker systems would you guys recommend that are $80 or under and on Amazon.com? The Creative T3130 that is listed on the first page is no longer available. I will mainly use the speakers for listening to music, watching movies and I guess playing games. My room is small but I would still like to have speakers that provide quality audio and I'm not an audiophile. Thanks for the help.


I'd say grab some Dayton b652's, pioneer bs-21s and a t amp. Get the sub later.


----------



## Allan P

Alright. Which of the two happen to be higher quality: Dayton B652 or or Micca MB42? They're the same price.

After reading both replies, I think I'll go ahead and piece together my own system instead of buying a cheap one. Thanks for the links.


----------



## mikeaj

If you look up info on the Dayton, keep in mind the B652 have had revisions over the years. Some models bought 1-2 years ago can be replaced with the current one.

I'm usually loathe to point out Amazon customer reviews but (perhaps because of the issues with some revisions) the Dayton averages 4.1 while the MB42 gets 4.7 on hundreds of samples each. Anyway, both models are common, especially the B652.

Like I said earlier, MB42 can be upgraded with a proper crossover, but this also means it doesn't have one at stock, which is a real eye raiser, more so with a cheap T amp. I'm not sure if the tweeter would take well to turn on/off transients and getting the bass in general, while the woofer can't be all that happy about the ultrasonics T amps produce, for example. Crossover upgrade is say $30 and definitely improves sound. Or you could just buy the MB42X model to begin with. But if you had this money, you could also try that Swan M10.

I guess the B652's one capacitor as a "crossover" is... something.


----------



## Allan P

I do recall reading that one of the revisions for the B652 caused the system to sound terrible. Anyways I'll be saving up the money for a few more months since I'm a college student but that Swan M10 does look nice. Thanks for the input. I'm currently using an ancient (probably 8-9 years old) set of Gateway PC speakers so I can't wait to upgrade.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> If you look up info on the Dayton, keep in mind the B652 have had revisions over the years. Some models bought 1-2 years ago can be replaced with the current one.
> 
> I'm usually loathe to point out Amazon customer reviews but (perhaps because of the issues with some revisions) the Dayton averages 4.1 while the MB42 gets 4.7 on hundreds of samples each. Anyway, both models are common, especially the B652.
> 
> Like I said earlier, MB42 can be upgraded with a proper crossover, but this also means it doesn't have one at stock, which is a real eye raiser, more so with a cheap T amp. I'm not sure if the tweeter would take well to turn on/off transients and getting the bass in general, while the woofer can't be all that happy about the ultrasonics T amps produce, for example. Crossover upgrade is say $30 and definitely improves sound. Or you could just buy the MB42X model to begin with. But if you had this money, you could also try that Swan M10.
> 
> I guess the B652's one capacitor as a "crossover" is... something.


The MB42 does have the same single capacitor "crossover." Unless they changed it recently. I had the B652 and while it's an upgrade for any old PC speaker setup, they aren't all that great and definitely not worth the $50. Plus the construction of the enclosure leaves much to be desired. I know, but they're $50.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allan P*
> 
> I do recall reading that one of the revisions for the B652 caused the system to sound terrible. Anyways I'll be saving up the money for a few more months since I'm a college student but that Swan M10 does look nice. Thanks for the input. I'm currently using an ancient (probably 8-9 years old) set of Gateway PC speakers so I can't wait to upgrade.


I haven't personally tried out the MB42, but they seem like gems with the crossover upgrade. Sure they have a smaller woofer, so generally that means less bass. The MB42X throws you way out of your budget and while the crossover from the MB42X is easily available. It's also $30. You could consider getting that down the road and it's an extremely easy part to install.

I would recommend the Pioneer BS-21 or Pioneer BS-22. They'll go on sale for $50 all the time and I absolutely love them for the price. You may get lucky and your local Walmart may be clearancing them out for $40 along with a $50 5.2 Sony receiver, but that's a long shot.


----------



## Allan P

I'm glad I had decided to ask for advice since price and quality don't always go together. I think I'm going to save up to get this:

http://www.amazon.com/Topping-TP20-MK2-TA2020-Digital-Amplifier/dp/B005F5U86G/ref=sr_1_9?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1341168099&sr=1-9&keywords=t+amp

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Micca-MB42-Bookshelf-Speakers-Tweeter/dp/B009IUIV4A

How much does a crossover upgrade improve the audio quality?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quick random question coz I'm bored and curious...

Anyone seen this Silverstone EB03 AMP & EB01-E DAC yet?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

^ Very interesting from Silverstone! I wonder if this is going to be reviewed by anyone that is reputable in the audio world? Hopefully it sounds and tests like the O2 or the schiit stack (I'd grab this if it did)! It does look nice though!

Here's a review from e-teknix ---> LINK

Not the best review but at least something...









EDIT: Here are a few more reviews (not really proper reviews from Kitguru, more subjective listening tests):

KITGURU

Benchmarkreviews - This one has some measurements

Harware Canucks - This review looks at the internals


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> is going to be reviewed by anyone that is reputable in the audio world?


This is what I'm wondering to, doesnt look to bad and the price is very nice









3dGameMan did a review to, again not the greatest







more of an unboxing really


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Yeah 3dgameman just gives everything he review a thumbs up!


----------



## Megalixir

Hello folks, please be gentle for I am mostly an audio noob. I have just completed my second pc build and have decided i would like to be able to enjoy music and gaming at a higher level. Iv'e really liked this thread as a starting point for learning about the general idea of whats going on with computer audio, it has been a fascinating read. So let me start by listing a few of the components in my build.

cpu - 4770k
mobo - maximus 6 hero
gpu - evga 780 classified (adding a second once 800 brings the prices down)
cpu cooler - thermalright silver arrow (this is very wide and blocks the mobo's first pci-e slot)

So once the second 780 is installed, it's going to just about block the second and third pci-e slots. you could say the third pci-e slot will still be visible, but any decent soundcard would have too much thickness to make me feel comfortable. Now the only slot left is on the bottom and is a pci 2.0 slot. I don't have enough expertise to know if a pci soundcard would be a lesser entity compared to pci-e or a external dac/amp setup but maybe someone could give me a hand.

so i found this card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004 Ht omega claro halo, im not sure but i think this would solve most of my issues. the only problem is that i was very very excited about using some of the schiit products like a modi/valhalla or asguard. Really want to try the tube technology as i have never experienced it before, and i love how clean the products from schiit look very appealing. One other thing about that pci soundcard is that i also dont want to put much more stress on the cpu if avoidable, only because i have a decent overclock on the 4770k and i don't know if that pci card will add stress.

So im not sure what im actually trying to achieve here, i would like to get the valhalla/modi along with the soundcard for better movie/gaming scenerios? Someone please correct me but a advantage to having a soundcard as well as the valhalla/modi is that i can get the SPDIF modi which is argued about being superior?

I also want to be able to run a pair of powered speakers, which i know the valhalla can do but the soundcard?
this is a list of the things i would be running:

Unsure on speaker size atm my room is very small 9x12 feet, iv'e been looking at 5's or 6's.
KRK Rokit 5
KRK Rokit 6
Mackie MR5mk3
Mackie MR6mk3
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/compare.php?items=(Rokit5G3|MR5mk3|Rokit6G3|MR6mk3)

Valhalla 2 http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2
Modi http://schiit.com/products/modi
HT omega claro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004
Sennheiser HD 650 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-9969-HD-650-Headphones/dp/B00018MSNI/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1406247117&sr=1-1&keywords=sennheiser+650

So please any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megalixir*
> 
> So once the second 780 is installed, it's going to just about block the second and third pci-e slots. you could say the third pci-e slot will still be visible, but any decent soundcard would have too much thickness to make me feel comfortable. Now the only slot left is on the bottom and is a pci 2.0 slot. I don't have enough expertise to know if a pci soundcard would be a lesser entity compared to pci-e or a external dac/amp setup but maybe someone could give me a hand.


PCI vs PCI-E doesn't really matter. If you want a PCI sound card, get the ASUS Xonar Essence ST.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megalixir*
> 
> the only problem is that i was very very excited about using some of the schiit products like a modi/valhalla or asguard. Really want to try the tube technology as i have never experienced it before, and i love how clean the products from schiit look very appealing. One other thing about that pci soundcard is that i also dont want to put much more stress on the cpu if avoidable, only because i have a decent overclock on the 4770k and i don't know if that pci card will add stress.
> 
> So im not sure what im actually trying to achieve here, i would like to get the valhalla/modi along with the soundcard for better movie/gaming scenerios? Someone please correct me but a advantage to having a soundcard as well as the valhalla/modi is that i can get the SPDIF modi which is argued about being superior?
> 
> I also want to be able to run a pair of powered speakers, which i know the valhalla can do but the soundcard?
> this is a list of the things i would be running:
> 
> Unsure on speaker size atm my room is very small 9x12 feet, iv'e been looking at 5's or 6's.
> KRK Rokit 5
> KRK Rokit 6
> Mackie MR5mk3
> Mackie MR6mk3
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/compare.php?items=(Rokit5G3|MR5mk3|Rokit6G3|MR6mk3)
> 
> Valhalla 2 http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2
> Modi http://schiit.com/products/modi
> HT omega claro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004
> Sennheiser HD 650 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-9969-HD-650-Headphones/dp/B00018MSNI/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1406247117&sr=1-1&keywords=sennheiser+650
> 
> So please any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.


Schiit stack will give you better sound quality, while a sound card will give you some gaming benefits like virtual surround. If you don't care for virtual surround then go with an external amp or DAC. The Schiit Valhalla 2 is a good choice, as the HD 650 works best with OTL tube amps according to those who have used it. So I recommend going that route, drop the sound card idea altogether.


----------



## Megalixir

well should i get the modi usb version instead of SPDIF? the only SPDIF port i have is the motherboard and i assume the sound quality is horrid.
and where the valhalla only accepts RCA should i just stick with that or is a XLR to RCA adapter worth its salt? when it comes to the powered speakers.


----------



## boredgunner

I'm a bit of an audio noob myself. I don't know if using an XLR to RCA adapter will do anything with the Valhalla 2, since it's not a balanced amp. I believe optical is "limited" to 24-bit / 96 KHz audio, and is not a wise choice for anything more than two channel audio. Then again, the Modi is only a 24-bit / 96 KHz DAC anyway and you're clearly only going with a two channel system. USB is a bit more versatile though, so I'd still go with USB.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megalixir*
> 
> well should i get the modi usb version instead of SPDIF? the only SPDIF port i have is the motherboard and i assume the sound quality is horrid.
> and where the valhalla only accepts RCA should i just stick with that or is a XLR to RCA adapter worth its salt? when it comes to the powered speakers.


Optical is digital so there shouldn't be any differences in SQ between optical and USB.
Now what makes optical unique is the fact that it completely negates all the grounding and power issues your audio setup could have.
For example my B3031A speakers are prone to groundloops which is the reason why they are almost completely unusable with a normal soundcard. I fixed the problem by cutting the grounding of the speakers but that's not really recommended.

Tl;dr: Personally I would take the SPDIF Modi.


----------



## Megalixir

Ok so just one last thing could someone please spell out the connections between the valhalla 2 and the mackie mr6mk3 for me? preamp outputs go to the powered monitors

http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-02-2-Valhalla-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00LFTGSVA/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1406251097&sr=1-4

now only 1 white left and 1 red right rca output, and the mackies only have one rca input each

http://www.amazon.com/Mackie-Series-MR5mk3-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00EA1U1X6/ref=sr_1_14?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1406338469&sr=1-14

please give me some advice on this i'd rather get everything i need than be stuck due to simple wiring solutions


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Megalixir*
> 
> Ok so just one last thing could someone please spell out the connections between the valhalla 2 and the mackie mr6mk3 for me? preamp outputs go to the powered monitors
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-02-2-Valhalla-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00LFTGSVA/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1406251097&sr=1-4
> 
> now only 1 white left and 1 red right rca output, and the mackies only have one rca input each
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mackie-Series-MR5mk3-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00EA1U1X6/ref=sr_1_14?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1406338469&sr=1-14
> 
> please give me some advice on this i'd rather get everything i need than be stuck due to simple wiring solutions


Looks like you'll probably be needing a couple of mono RCA. If that is the case, you'll need two of THESE.

Keep in mind those speakers are sold individually and as a pair. The two mono RCA cables will go from the red and white RCA jacks on the Valhalla 2.

Now for your PC to Valhalla 2 (not sure if you're using a sound card or getting a dedicated DAC) you'll need one of THESE. Now if your sound card has RCA jacks, then you'll want something like THIS.

The length you need will all depend on how far your PC is away from the amp (Valhalla 2) and how far the powered monitor (Mackie's) with the connections on it sit away from your amp.

So you're looking at something like this:

PC -> 3.5 to RCA cable OR RCA to RCA cable -> Valhalla 2 inputs then Valhalla 2 preamp outputs -> [red/right RCA jack -> mono RCA cable -> right Mackie monitor] & [white/left RCA jack -> mono RCA cable -> left Mackie monitor]

I believe this is your correct configuration, but someone can step in to correct or confirm it.


----------



## Megalixir

This is just what i was looking for, i was not sure if the single RCA to RCA would be viable or if i would need a red and white for each speaker. i was planning on getting the schiit modi SPDIF version

http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Audio-SCH-08-O-Optical-Converter/dp/B00K6NJSZ4/ref=pd_sim_e_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1HZMBFVSA6JZF3CQ14HR

No soundcard so i would have to run it to the SPDIF on the motherboard, so i would need something like toslink to toslink right?

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Toslink-Digital-Optical-SPDIF/dp/B00BA4IOTY/ref=sr_1_17?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1406523172&sr=1-17&keywords=spdif+to+spdif


----------



## pez

For the Modi to Valhalla 2, you'll just need a fairly short RCA to RCA cable (red & white).

Not sure what's on your mobo, but most have an RCA like port for optical, so you might need something like THIS.


----------



## BoredErica

I think the recommended audio equipment list could use some updating... Mad Dogs are what, $300? Impressive buy at that price. And the "$1200+" list is still not good enough. Maybe include the ATH M40X, said to sound comparable to the more expensive M50. Or maybe the Vmodas would be fine at a price point for a regular nonaudiophile that wants some bass in without getting Beats.


----------



## renji1337

Ultrasone pro 550 still reccomended for gaming?

I have HE-400's and ultrasone pro 550's

If the he's 400 are better for gaming ill sell the pro 550s


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Ultrasone pro 550 still reccomended for gaming?
> 
> I have HE-400's and ultrasone pro 550's
> 
> If the he's 400 are better for gaming ill sell the pro 550s


They were recommended for gaming?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Ultrasone pro 550 still reccomended for gaming?
> 
> I have HE-400's and ultrasone pro 550's
> 
> If the he's 400 are better for gaming ill sell the pro 550s


If you have them, why not decide for yourself?

However, chances are the HE-400 will be much better (open is usually better than closed in that concept).


----------



## renji1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> They were recommended for gaming?


Originally when this thread first came up the ultrasone pro 550's were reccomended alot, people were saying they were basically a closed ad700 and had great soundstage. I was wondering why they were taken off









soundstage wise in FPS games the HE-400 stage is very small compared to the pro 550's wide sound stage.

an example is with the he-400 I dont really hear the bullet behind me but I hear it wizz past my face. with the pro 550 I hear it behind me before hand a good bit.


----------



## ChaosAD

I am about to buy a second hand sound card! I found a titanium HD with no warranty left (he says its in a very good condition) for 70 euros (150e new). i also found a 2 month old Asus Xonar STX with almost 2 years of warranty left (from amazon.co.uk, i leave in Greece) for 100-110 euros (180e new)! The HD will be mailed to me so i cant check it myself before i buy it, while the STX is in the same city! I will not use headphones ever! I will only use my Epoz Aktimate Mini speakers or better later on. The use will be mainly music (flacs,320 mp3 and youtube), normal gaming (dont play any fps) and movies ofc. I dont want an external dac atm. Which one is the best solution for me if the money difference is no issue and i just want the best sound possible between these two?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Given that both are great sound cards and comparable, I would go with the TiHD as it is cheaper.


----------



## pez

Minus the few quirks, I'm still very happy with my TiHD







. I've had it for around 3-4 years now.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosAD*
> 
> I am about to buy a second hand sound card! I found a titanium HD with no warranty left (he says its in a very good condition) for 70 euros (150e new). i also found a 2 month old Asus Xonar STX with almost 2 years of warranty left (from amazon.co.uk, i leave in Greece) for 100-110 euros (180e new)! The HD will be mailed to me so i cant check it myself before i buy it, while the STX is in the same city! I will not use headphones ever! I will only use my Epoz Aktimate Mini speakers or better later on. The use will be mainly music (flacs,320 mp3 and youtube), normal gaming (dont play any fps) and movies ofc. I dont want an external dac atm. Which one is the best solution for me if the money difference is no issue and i just want the best sound possible between these two?


The main differences between the two sound cards are:

- The STX has a headphone amplifier while the Titanium HD does not. Useless for you.
- The Titanium HD has more/better virtual surround options, as well as EAX. Probably also useless for you.
- The Titanium HD is cheaper.

Titanium HD for the win. Both have more or less the same DAC and quality components elsewhere, both have swappable opamps.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The main differences between the two sound cards are:
> 
> - The STX has a headphone amplifier while the Titanium HD does not. Useless for you.
> - The Titanium HD has more/better virtual surround options, as well as EAX. Probably also useless for you.
> - The Titanium HD is cheaper.
> 
> Titanium HD for the win. Both have more or less the same DAC and quality components elsewhere, both have swappable opamps.


TiHD has amplification for headphones up to 330 ohms.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> TiHD has amplification for headphones up to 330 ohms.


Yeah it does have a headphone output rated for something that high, though according to everyone who has thoroughly reviewed it (like Guru3D) it doesn't have an actual amplifier.


----------



## pez

Yeah, I was pretty sure I read that it didn't actually have an amp, but rather just headphone output.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

I stand corrected then. Thanks!


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Wondering if any of you audio guru's could help me...

I'm running these speakers....http://www.amazon.com/Genius-SW-G2-1-1250-Speaker-System/dp/B0056BPUQC/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1407164194&sr=1-3&keywords=pc+speakers+genius+gx

Would a sound card make them sound any better?

And if so, what sound card would yield the best quality


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Wondering if any of you audio guru's could help me...
> 
> I'm running these speakers....http://www.amazon.com/Genius-SW-G2-1-1250-Speaker-System/dp/B0056BPUQC/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1407164194&sr=1-3&keywords=pc+speakers+genius+gx
> 
> Would a sound card make them sound any better?
> 
> And if so, what sound card would yield the best quality


Only thing a sound card would help you with, would be if you've got bad hissing or other noise from your onboard. Honestly, I'd save your money for some better speakers if you wanted better sound.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Only thing a sound card would help you with, would be if you've got bad hissing or other noise from your onboard. Honestly, I'd save your money for some better speakers if you wanted better sound.


Thanks for taking the time to reply....

Thing is, these speakers sound pretty decent to me....For what it's worth, they got great reviews on amazon

So what your saying is a sound card wouldn't make any major difference in sound quality?

I don't hear any hissing to speak of.....


----------



## renji1337

I reccomend ultrasone pro 550 be added for gaming and ascend cbm 170 speakers for passive speakers.







there great for gaming.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to reply....
> 
> Thing is, these speakers sound pretty decent to me....For what it's worth, they got great reviews on amazon
> 
> So what your saying is a sound card wouldn't make any major difference in sound quality?
> 
> I don't hear any hissing to speak of.....


If you have a smartphone you can test if the phone sounds better than the onboard. If you can hear a difference then you can think about getting a soundcard.

But what did you expect from $60 2.1 speakers... The reviewers are comparing the speakers to a laptops built-in speakers. At that stage anything that can produce sound gets 5 stars.


----------



## Pheozero

I know the list in the OP hasn't be updated since all of that... stuff with Simca, but it is it still current with the recommendations? I need a new headset since my Astro's are getting really worn out (one of my ears cups aren't working and the mic doesn't pick up sound) and I was looking at the Q701's. I also have a TiHD in my system if that's any help.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> If you have a smartphone you can test if the phone sounds better than the onboard. If you can hear a difference then you can think about getting a soundcard.
> 
> But what did you expect from $60 2.1 speakers... The reviewers are comparing the speakers to a laptops built-in speakers. At that stage anything that can produce sound gets 5 stars.


Very good suggestion.

To add, a decent/entry-level sound card, going through a receiver, passive speakers and a sub will sound even better.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> If you have a smartphone you can test if the phone sounds better than the onboard. If you can hear a difference then you can think about getting a soundcard.
> 
> But what did you expect from $60 2.1 speakers... The reviewers are comparing the speakers to a laptops built-in speakers. At that stage anything that can produce sound gets 5 stars.


Wait a minute, the speakers aren't the problem for me

What I want to know is: will a sound card improve the sound coming out of them? Its not bad now, but could a sound card make it _*better*_?

I fully realize you guys are audiophiles and probably scoff at $60 speakers, but I'm kind of fond of them....









But if you have any recommendations for speakers and/or soundcards, I'd love to hear about them and look into it









Almost forgot, my onboard sound is from an asus RoG maximus hero, so probably not the worst as far as onboard


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Wait a minute, the speakers aren't the problem for me
> 
> What I want to know is: will a sound card improve the sound coming out of them? Its not bad now, but could a sound card make it _*better*_?
> 
> I fully realize you guys are audiophiles and probably scoff at $60 speakers, but I'm kind of fond of them....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you have any recommendations for speakers and/or soundcards, I'd love to hear about them and look into it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost forgot, my onboard sound is from an asus RoG maximus hero, so probably not the worst as far as onboard


As I said, test the speakers with your smartphone first.
Smartphones have pretty good DACs these days.

If the phone doesn't sound better than the onboard, there is no need to upgrade the soundcard.

I follow the thumb rule of "Never use more than 50% of the value of your speakers+headphones combined on your soundcard/amp+DAC". So the $30 Xonar DG or Behringer UCA222 would be the only feasible soundcard upgrades for your speakers.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> I know the list in the OP hasn't be updated since all of that... stuff with Simca, but it is it still current with the recommendations? I need a new headset since my Astro's are getting really worn out (one of my ears cups aren't working and the mic doesn't pick up sound) and I was looking at the Q701's. I also have a TiHD in my system if that's any help.


chinesekiwi updated it a while ago (5/11/14) so it's not too out of date.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> I know the list in the OP hasn't be updated since all of that... stuff with Simca, but it is it still current with the recommendations? I need a new headset since my Astro's are getting really worn out (one of my ears cups aren't working and the mic doesn't pick up sound) and I was looking at the Q701's. I also have a TiHD in my system if that's any help.


Like Twerk mentioned, Chinesekiwi is actually taking care of this thread for Simca and updating it. The Q701 is a great pair of headphones. Since you are coming from a headset however, I did want to let you know the Q701 does not have a microphone and are open (leak sound in and out) in case those are deal breakers for you. If sound isolation matters, the AKG K550 might be a better option. For mics, a lot of people like Zalman mics, ModMic's, and USB desktop condenser mics (a lot more expensive).


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> As I said, test the speakers with your smartphone first.
> Smartphones have pretty good DACs these days.
> 
> If the phone doesn't sound better than the onboard, there is no need to upgrade the soundcard.
> 
> I follow the thumb rule of "Never use more than 50% of the value of your speakers+headphones combined on your soundcard/amp+DAC". So the $30 Xonar DG or Behringer UCA222 would be the only feasible soundcard upgrades for your speakers.


Don't have a smartphone, not a fan of them....









I gather from you: better speakers for better sound with soundcard being a second priority

Any speaker set recommendations?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> As I said, test the speakers with your smartphone first.
> Smartphones have pretty good DACs these days.
> 
> If the phone doesn't sound better than the onboard, there is no need to upgrade the soundcard.
> 
> I follow the thumb rule of "Never use more than 50% of the value of your speakers+headphones combined on your soundcard/amp+DAC". So the $30 Xonar DG or Behringer UCA222 would be the only feasible soundcard upgrades for your speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't have a smartphone, not a fan of them....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gather from you: better speakers for better sound with soundcard being a second priority
> 
> Any speaker set recommendations?
Click to expand...

Honestly to get you started, I'd suggest a Lepai TA2020 and a pair of Pioneer BS21's or BS22's (both go on sale very often). You could probably get the setup for $100 or less if you deal shop. From there, add a subwoofer if you feel you need it. Then sound card, then upgrade the T amp into a more powerful one or a receiver if you feel you need it.

My 2 cents anyway because you seem to have a fairly tight budget.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Honestly to get you started, I'd suggest a Lepai TA2020 and a pair of Pioneer BS21's or BS22's (both go on sale very often). You could probably get the setup for $100 or less if you deal shop. From there, add a subwoofer if you feel you need it. Then sound card, then upgrade the T amp into a more powerful one or a receiver if you feel you need it.
> 
> My 2 cents anyway because you seem to have a fairly tight budget.


No, no budget whatsoever....

Just trying to learn about sound-systems to expand on my hardware-hobby









This is mainly for movies and gaming and some music so what I'm really after is clarity, that's what led me to the soundcard conclusion


----------



## BoredErica

All about the speakers first, baby. Unless one's onboard is utter trash, typically better speakers is what's gonna give you dat upgrade in sound for "cheap". I'd spend more time finding the right speakers than the right soundcard or external dac.

Oh, and I also spent quite a long time look at speaker positioning. I play a track, then I walk from my computer to the edge of the room and I can hear the bass very notably changing.


----------



## Loktar Ogar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Honestly to get you started, I'd suggest a Lepai TA2020 and a pair of Pioneer BS21's or BS22's (both go on sale very often). You could probably get the setup for $100 or less if you deal shop. From there, add a subwoofer if you feel you need it. Then sound card, then upgrade the T amp into a more powerful one or a receiver if you feel you need it.


What alternative speakers can you recommend or upgrade from Pioneer BS21's or BS22's and from Lepai TA2020 with a minimal budget, lets say below $200?

Also, i have thought of buying an active monitoring speakers directly so i wont have to buy the parts separately and was thinking it would have better SQ than the regular bookshelf speakers?

I am open for comment and recommendations.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loktar Ogar*
> 
> What alternative speakers can you recommend or upgrade from Pioneer BS21's or BS22's and from Lepai TA2020 with a minimal budget, lets say below $200?
> 
> Also, i have thought of buying an active monitoring speakers directly so i wont have to buy the parts separately and was thinking it would have better SQ than the regular bookshelf speakers?
> 
> I am open for comment and recommendations.


Not hating on active bookshelf speakers, there are some great ones, but for $200 a lot of the times you're going to be sharing an amp from one speaker. Not that it's a terrible thing, but they tend to run really hot. Sound quality would be similar between something like the NHT SuperZero and SuperPower. The SuperPower is just the active version of the SuperZero, but with a $200 extra price tag.

I would personally recommend passive speakers and a separate amp because if you ever want to upgrade speakers you have an easy way to upgrade.

As for speakers the Infinity P153 and P163 go on sale at Fry's all the time for about $50-60 a piece, the Polk 35B $100, Fluance SX6, Klipsch B10 for $130 at Fry's and JBL Loft 40. As for amps there is the Dayton DTA-120, various Topping amps like the T10, TP20, TP21, TP22, VX1 and the Orb Audio amp. The Orb is a bit weak at 10w at 8ohms, but it does have a sub out.

Any combination of these should run you under $200 and have excellent sound quality. I'll be putting up my Tweak City Audio Gizmo amp for sale soon. And that's 25w at 8ohms with a sub out.


----------



## Loktar Ogar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Not hating on active bookshelf speakers, there are some great ones, but for $200 a lot of the times you're going to be sharing an amp from one speaker. Not that it's a terrible thing, but they tend to run really hot. Sound quality would be similar between something like the NHT SuperZero and SuperPower. The SuperPower is just the active version of the SuperZero, but with a $200 extra price tag.
> 
> I would personally recommend passive speakers and a separate amp because if you ever want to upgrade speakers you have an easy way to upgrade.
> 
> As for speakers the Infinity P153 and P163 go on sale at Fry's all the time for about $50-60 a piece, the Polk 35B $100, Fluance SX6, Klipsch B10 for $130 at Fry's and JBL Loft 40. As for amps there is the Dayton DTA-120, various Topping amps like the T10, TP20, TP21, TP22, VX1 and the Orb Audio amp. The Orb is a bit weak at 10w at 8ohms, but it does have a sub out.
> 
> Any combination of these should run you under $200 and have excellent sound quality. I'll be putting up my Tweak City Audio Gizmo amp for sale soon. And that's 25w at 8ohms with a sub out.


I was very pleased on the detailed response and gave you a rep! I think i don't have to go anywhere and waste my time searching, this would be a great starting point for me.


----------



## renji1337

If you up the budget the 298/pair of CBM 170's from ascend get great reviews

there's also the cheaper cambridge s30's on accesories4less that are highly loved.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Well after a little research....what I'm thinking about doing is going with a quality 2.1, 5.1 or even 7.1 and a sonar essence

I like 2.1 cause less space, but would consider 5.1 or 7.1 if it's much better


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Well after a little research....what I'm thinking about doing is going with a quality 2.1, 5.1 or even 7.1 and a sonar essence
> 
> I like 2.1 cause less space, but would consider 5.1 or 7.1 if it's much better


If you aim for more then 2.1, it's recommended to forget soundcards and go for full receiver setup. Soundcard won't help much at that point when you can use your GPU HDMI to transfer the digital sound.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> If you aim for more then 2.1, it's recommended to forget soundcards and go for full receiver setup. Soundcard won't help much at that point when you can use your GPU HDMI to transfer the digital sound.


You are right about the soundcard/connections but i would still go for active monitors on a PC stereo system.

Its just alot less of a hassle, take's up less space and can sound very, very good to.

With 1 soundcard and just 1 volume slider i can control both my monitors and headphone at the same time.
Amps are in the speakers and the rest in the PC (DAC behind montior screen) so it hardly take's up any space.

Good monitors are expensive though but there are a few that sound pretty nice for the money like:
http://www.amazon.com/Alesis-M1-Active-520-Powered/dp/B000EJTXZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407403469&sr=8-1&keywords=Alesis+520
196$ a pair new and just 129$ a pair used.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> You are right about the soundcard/connections but i would still go for active monitors on a PC stereo system.
> 
> Its just alot less of a hassle, take's up less space and can sound very, very good to.
> 
> With 1 soundcard and just 1 volume slider i can control both my monitors and headphone at the same time.
> Amps are in the speakers and the rest in the PC (DAC behind montior screen) so it hardly take's up any space.
> 
> Good monitors are expensive though but there are a few that sound pretty nice for the money like:
> http://www.amazon.com/Alesis-M1-Active-520-Powered/dp/B000EJTXZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407403469&sr=8-1&keywords=Alesis+520
> 196$ a pair new and just 129$ a pair used.


I never said anything about stereo systems.

Do notice the B3031A in my sig


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I never said anything about stereo systems.
> 
> Do notice the B3031A in my sig


I think i have read over the word "more" in your previous post









I heard the B3031A are pretty nice for the money to ? (prolly over his budget though)

I hope to upgrade next year again but prices are getting so very high, might even need to save money for 2 or 3 years








Its ridiculous how much more a small upgrade cost for me now.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> I think i have read over the word "more" in your previous post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the B3031A are pretty nice for the money to ? (prolly over his budget though)
> 
> I hope to upgrade next year again but prices are getting so very high, might even need to save money for 2 or 3 years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its ridiculous how much more a small upgrade cost for me now.


About $500 a pair.
A finnish hifi magazine made a detailed review on them, the review also had Genelec 8050A, Adam Audio A8X, KRK Rokit 8, etc.
The Genelec won, Behringer got a recommendation and the Adams got the personal recommendation of the guest reviewer.
But the Genelec was 8x more expensive than the Behringer...


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Honestly to get you started, I'd suggest a Lepai TA2020 and a pair of Pioneer BS21's or BS22's (both go on sale very often). You could probably get the setup for $100 or less if you deal shop. From there, add a subwoofer if you feel you need it. Then sound card, then upgrade the T amp into a more powerful one or a receiver if you feel you need it.
> 
> My 2 cents anyway because you seem to have a fairly tight budget.


Ok, so my limited research is coming around to what your suggesting....

Your last line made it sound budget limited, but from what I've been reading, this setup would beat any consumer grade 2.1 system and cheaper at that









Is there anything better than those pioneer's and the TA2020 you would recommend?

Must admit I know noting about amps, T-amps or receivers, but I'm trying to learn


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> About $500 a pair.
> A finnish hifi magazine made a detailed review on them, the review also had Genelec 8050A, Adam Audio A8X, KRK Rokit 8, etc.
> The Genelec won, Behringer got a recommendation and the Adams got the personal recommendation of the guest reviewer.
> But the Genelec was 8x more expensive than the Behringer...


I listened to Genelecs before i bought the Adams and thought they did not sound how they was priced lol. (They do sound good but its just to expensive)

I liked the KRK VXT6 and Dynaudio BM6A but in the end i went with the Adams, the tweeters on the Adams just cant be beaten IMO.


----------



## omairsr

Hello again, OCN! Last time I was here, I was figuring out whether I wanted to purchase a pair of Senn HD380 Pros. I ended up deciding to, and have been very happy with them, even with them running off my motherboard audio.

Right now I am here to ask whether I should buy an Asus Xonar sound card for a slightly better audio experience, or invest in one those DAC/AMP deals (I'm still an amateur on those). The Xonar is pretty cheap, reviews seem to suggest that they still provide a nice upgrade to sound and apparently it has a built-in headphone amp.

Someone suggested the Hifimediy Sabre DAC last time; if I got that, would I need an amp for it since it's just a DAC? And are there any other good, cheap DACs like the Hifimediy Sabre?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Will the Objective 2 be enough for the DT 880 250ohm?

Still looking for a cheap amp that I can hook to my STX and was thinking about the custom O2 with 6mm & RCA input

Thanks


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omairsr*
> 
> Hello again, OCN! Last time I was here, I was figuring out whether I wanted to purchase a pair of Senn HD380 Pros. I ended up deciding to, and have been very happy with them, even with them running off my motherboard audio.
> 
> Right now I am here to ask whether I should buy an Asus Xonar sound card for a slightly better audio experience, or invest in one those DAC/AMP deals (I'm still an amateur on those). The Xonar is pretty cheap, reviews seem to suggest that they still provide a nice upgrade to sound and apparently it has a built-in headphone amp.
> 
> Someone suggested the Hifimediy Sabre DAC last time; if I got that, would I need an amp for it since it's just a DAC? And are there any other good, cheap DACs like the Hifimediy Sabre?


You wouldn't need an amp with that DAC, since it has a 3.5mm headphone jack. An amp might help, I really don't know much about the HD 380.

Also I take it you were looking at the Xonar DGX sound card? There are a few Xonar sound cards in this day and age: the Xonar DX and D1, which are the same thing except the D1 is PCI instead of PCI-E. It has a more common, generic DAC and no built-in amplifier. The Xonar DG and DGX are lower end, basic ones which do have a built-in amplifier. The higher end Xonar Essence STX and ST (ST is PCI instead of PCI-E) use a much better PCM179x series DAC, and better components all around combined with a built-in headphone amplifier. The Essence will provide much better sound quality, on par with DACs in the same price range.

The benefit of using a sound card for most headphone users is virtual surround; the ASUS cards offer Dolby Headphone, which is typically viewed as the worst virtual surround solution. All of those ASUS cards will have the same gaming features/virtual surround features, since I believe they use the same DSP.

The Creative Sound Blaster Z costs about the same as the ASUS Xonar DX, and the Z has basically the same DAC and will offer more or less the same sound quality, except it does in fact have a headphone amplifier built in. The Z also uses SBX Pro Studio instead of Dolby Headphone: SBX is probably the best virtual surround solution around. Creative sound cards offer EAX which older games take advantage of (it's no longer used so it won't be in newer games). So the Sound Blaster Z is really a better option than the Xonar DX. I don't think they have anything in the same price range as the Xonar DGX though.

If virtual surround doesn't matter at all for you, then an external amp/DAC may be the better choice. I'm pretty sure the Hifimediy Sabre DAC will provide better sound quality than similarly priced sound cards. I don't think an amp is important for the HD 380, though someone who knows those headphones better may be able to give a more clear answer.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Will the Objective 2 be enough for the DT 880 250ohm?
> 
> Still looking for a cheap amp that I can hook to my STX and was thinking about the custom O2 with 6mm & RCA input
> 
> Thanks


O2 is more than enough to power that. It's like using a bazooka to kill a fly.

Dolby Headphone sucks, it messes with the sound and Razer Surround is free, works with whatever you use, and is better at its core function.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> O2 is more than enough to power that. It's like using a bazooka to kill a fly.
> 
> Dolby Headphone sucks, it messes with the sound and Razer Surround is free, works with whatever you use, and is better at its core function.


Cool









I dont bother with Dolby headphone or Razer surround, I just set in game to surround and 8 channel in the Asus software, seems to work pretty well







Asus and Unified drivers glitch out all the time tho









Noticed the O2 uses an AC power adapter, any Aussies in the thread know how difficult it is to get one?


----------



## omairsr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> You wouldn't need an amp with that DAC, since it has a 3.5mm headphone jack. An amp might help, I really don't know much about the HD 380.
> 
> Also I take it you were looking at the Xonar DGX sound card? There are a few Xonar sound cards in this day and age: the Xonar DX and D1, which are the same thing except the D1 is PCI instead of PCI-E. It has a more common, generic DAC and no built-in amplifier. The Xonar DG and DGX are lower end, basic ones which do have a built-in amplifier. The higher end Xonar Essence STX and ST (ST is PCI instead of PCI-E) use a much better PCM179x series DAC, and better components all around combined with a built-in headphone amplifier. The Essence will provide much better sound quality, on par with DACs in the same price range.
> 
> The benefit of using a sound card for most headphone users is virtual surround; the ASUS cards offer Dolby Headphone, which is typically viewed as the worst virtual surround solution. All of those ASUS cards will have the same gaming features/virtual surround features, since I believe they use the same DSP.
> 
> The Creative Sound Blaster Z costs about the same as the ASUS Xonar DX, and the Z has basically the same DAC and will offer more or less the same sound quality, except it does in fact have a headphone amplifier built in. The Z also uses SBX Pro Studio instead of Dolby Headphone: SBX is probably the best virtual surround solution around. Creative sound cards offer EAX which older games take advantage of (it's no longer used so it won't be in newer games). So the Sound Blaster Z is really a better option than the Xonar DX. I don't think they have anything in the same price range as the Xonar DGX though.
> 
> If virtual surround doesn't matter at all for you, then an external amp/DAC may be the better choice. I'm pretty sure the Hifimediy Sabre DAC will provide better sound quality than similarly priced sound cards. I don't think an amp is important for the HD 380, though someone who knows those headphones better may be able to give a more clear answer.


I was talking about the DGX, yes. The Essence line definitely isn't cheap, haha.

I don't think I'm very concerned about virtual surround. So the Hifimediy Sabre DAC is starting to seem like a good choice.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Honestly to get you started, I'd suggest a Lepai TA2020 and a pair of Pioneer BS21's or BS22's (both go on sale very often). You could probably get the setup for $100 or less if you deal shop. From there, add a subwoofer if you feel you need it. Then sound card, then upgrade the T amp into a more powerful one or a receiver if you feel you need it.
> 
> My 2 cents anyway because you seem to have a fairly tight budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so my limited research is coming around to what your suggesting....
> 
> Your last line made it sound budget limited, but from what I've been reading, this setup would beat any consumer grade 2.1 system and cheaper at that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything better than those pioneer's and the TA2020 you would recommend?
> 
> Must admit I know noting about amps, T-amps or receivers, but I'm trying to learn
Click to expand...

Yes / no.

Amplifier wise, you can find 50w x2 amplifiers (the Lepai is 20w x2). With this, you'll want a sound card. If you have desk space for it, get a receiver instead, which is honestly the best choice (going with passive stuff and a sub). A receiver means you can use HDMI or SPDIF out from your computer to the receiver....which means you don't need a sound card as a receiver usually has a great DAC already. Not only that, a receiver also will offer you MULTIPLE inputs that you can utilize for playstation, XBox, Cable box, mp3 player, your phone.........whatever.

For the speakers, honestly from what I've read and experienced, there's not much better than the Pioneers until you get into large large budgets. Apparently the BS-22's and BS-41's rival $500-1000 speakers sometimes. They're THAT good. There's definitely TONS of other options out there, but it depends on how you want them to sound. The Pioneers are very natural sounding, you hear exactly what is meant to be heard. Others like Polk might sound a little bright. Others might be a little warm. It just depends on how YOU want it to sound. The Pioneers are nice because they're natural, so they're basically right in the middle.

For a sub, you can't go wrong with a Dayton SUB1200 on a budget. A little higher you'd want a Polk PSW505 or a BIC F12 ($200 ish). Higher budget, look at svsound's ported 12's. Higher then that, I don't know anything about as I tend to build my own subs.

The easist way to hookup a GOOD sub is going to be using a T amp or a receiver (receiver is easier still). With active monitor speakers, it's kind of hard to hook up a sub later on because you'd be sharing the input instead of the speakers giving the input to the sub. So you'd rely on Windows to control the volume. With a T amp / receiver, you can use the volume of the speakers to also adjust the sub at the same time (the sub gain would be used as a gain as its supposed to).


----------



## renji1337

^Also there's a dayton sub 1500 now too! I use both 1200 and a 1500 in my living room


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> Yes / no.
> 
> Amplifier wise, you can find 50w x2 amplifiers (the Lepai is 20w x2). With this, you'll want a sound card. If you have desk space for it, get a receiver instead, which is honestly the best choice (going with passive stuff and a sub). A receiver means you can use HDMI or SPDIF out from your computer to the receiver....which means you don't need a sound card as a receiver usually has a great DAC already. Not only that, a receiver also will offer you MULTIPLE inputs that you can utilize for playstation, XBox, Cable box, mp3 player, your phone.........whatever.
> 
> For the speakers, honestly from what I've read and experienced, there's not much better than the Pioneers until you get into large large budgets. Apparently the BS-22's and BS-41's rival $500-1000 speakers sometimes. They're THAT good. There's definitely TONS of other options out there, but it depends on how you want them to sound. The Pioneers are very natural sounding, you hear exactly what is meant to be heard. Others like Polk might sound a little bright. Others might be a little warm. It just depends on how YOU want it to sound. The Pioneers are nice because they're natural, so they're basically right in the middle.
> 
> For a sub, you can't go wrong with a Dayton SUB1200 on a budget. A little higher you'd want a Polk PSW505 or a BIC F12 ($200 ish). Higher budget, look at svsound's ported 12's. Higher then that, I don't know anything about as I tend to build my own subs.
> 
> The easist way to hookup a GOOD sub is going to be using a T amp or a receiver (receiver is easier still). With active monitor speakers, it's kind of hard to hook up a sub later on because you'd be sharing the input instead of the speakers giving the input to the sub. So you'd rely on Windows to control the volume. With a T amp / receiver, you can use the volume of the speakers to also adjust the sub at the same time (the sub gain would be used as a gain as its supposed to).


Thanks for taking the time pio....









I'm thinking about a surround setup with these pieces:

Front and rear: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E7H8GG2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AFKH6OU9WWNFS

Sub: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TQ4D8K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

center: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HH2GINM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AFKH6OU9WWNFS

receiver: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JR6GJLW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Now, if I just go 2 speakers and a sub with a lepai amp for now and upgrade the rest later....

What kind of amp do you recommend for this 2.1, I saw a guy on youtube split a whole bunch of connections to get it working on the lepai, it was confusing

Here's the back of the sub for reference: http://rad-sat.home.pl/sklep/images/large2/Yamaha-YST-SW012_04.JPG

Also, how is the the gpu connected to the receiver and setup? Just hdmi cable from gpu to the back of the receiver? Any hacking involved? Couldn't find any info...


----------



## kael13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Thanks for taking the time pio....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about a surround setup with these pieces:
> 
> Front and rear: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E7H8GG2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AFKH6OU9WWNFS
> 
> Sub: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TQ4D8K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> center: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HH2GINM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AFKH6OU9WWNFS
> 
> receiver: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JR6GJLW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> Now, if I just go 2 speakers and a sub with a lepai amp for now and upgrade the rest later....
> 
> What kind of amp do you recommend for this 2.1, I saw a guy on youtube split a whole bunch of connections to get it working on the lepai, it was confusing
> 
> Here's the back of the sub for reference: http://rad-sat.home.pl/sklep/images/large2/Yamaha-YST-SW012_04.JPG
> 
> Also, how is the the gpu connected to the receiver and setup? Just hdmi cable from gpu to the back of the receiver? Any hacking involved? Couldn't find any info...


Is something like that a good alternative to a conventional PC soundcard setup?

I'm looking for a replacement for my venerable Auzentech 7.1 Forte which has really served me well. Modern audio cards/on-board solutions seem crappy at best. For example, I enjoy the fact that I can upmix stereo music to use all channels.

Specifically looking for something that can handle 5.1; I already have a good DAC/Headamp setup for headphones.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone.

It's been a few months since I got my O2+ODAC combo and DT990 Pro 250Ohm headphones. Recently I started noticing that the right side of my headphones is louder than the left side. I even asked someone else to check if it was actually happening and he seconded my claim.

How do I fix this issue?

Thank you.


----------



## pez

Have you tested to see which is causing your problem (i.e. O2+ODAC or headphones)? Hint: plug headphones up to different source.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Have you tested to see which is causing your problem (i.e. O2+ODAC or headphones)? Hint: plug headphones up to different source.


Tried it with my phone. The problem seems to be with the headphones.

Is there any possible fix for this issue?

Thank you.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Tried it with my phone. The problem seems to be with the headphones.
> 
> Is there any possible fix for this issue?
> 
> Thank you.


If you're comfortable with it, you can open up the side with the issue and see if something has come loose. Are they still under warranty?


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> If you're comfortable with it, you can open up the side with the issue and see if something has come loose. Are they still under warranty?


I'm not comfortable with it. I'm not even sure if they're under warranty. I bought them from Amazon and the order was most likely placed in Feb/Mar although I received them a lot later.

Besides, how would I even know which side is problematic? The right side is louder than the left so either side could be problematic.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quick question, with the O2 from JDS Labs does it matter which gain setting you go?

Getting a custom one coz I want most of the connections at the back and getting it engraved and unsure if I should go standard 2.5x - 6.5x or medium 1.0x - 3.5x for my DT880 250ohm

Thanks


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Quick question, with the O2 from JDS Labs does it matter which gain setting you go?
> 
> Getting a custom one coz I want most of the connections at the back and getting it engraved and unsure if I should go standard 2.5x - 6.5x or medium 1.0x - 3.5x for my DT880 250ohm
> 
> Thanks


Generally the performance difference is negligible, and it should be here. However, the O2 is configured like some pro gear and unlike most consumer stuff in that the volume control is after the gain stage, meaning too high of a level plus too high gain will cause clipping, no matter what the volume setting is.

The gain is, as it sounds, a multiplicative factor on the input level. So what you want depends on the output level of whatever you're feeding it with. The higher the level, the lower you want the gain. Some devices have output level specs listed. What are they? If you can't find info, it's something you can readily measure with a multimeter (play a full scale, max-volume-on-everything 60 Hz sine wave and measure AC voltage between an output and ground, like the tip and sleeve parts of a 3.5 mm cable hooked up to the output).

If you want to guess blindly, I'd do 1x / 3x (3.5x; somewhere in this range), as the 250 ohms Beyers don't need all _that_ much voltage for a decently high volume. However, if you listen to music with a very quiet average level, like some classical and jazz masters, you may need to be a little more serious and actually figure out the correct setting to max out volume without clipping the signal.

By the way, fwiw if you have an Essence STX, even the O2's designer would probably say you're better off saving your money than getting an O2 unless you just like having something on your desk to control volume with and so on or also plan to use IEMs or something. (as for actual users, some or many would disagree)


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I'm not comfortable with it. I'm not even sure if they're under warranty. I bought them from Amazon and the order was most likely placed in Feb/Mar although I received them a lot later.
> 
> Besides, how would I even know which side is problematic? The right side is louder than the left so either side could be problematic.


They will at least have a year of warranty on them if you bought them new. Either way, it'd be worth it to shoot Beyer an email.


----------



## BoredErica

I'd go with the default gain JDS Labs chooses. That is more than enough for the vast majority of headphones. You're only supposed to use more gain when you have no choice.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> They will at least have a year of warranty on them if you bought them new. Either way, it'd be worth it to shoot Beyer an email.


I bought them new and it hasn't been a year yet. So it's still under warranty.

I'll contact Beyerdynamic and see if they can help.

Thank you.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Generally the performance difference is negligible, and it should be here. However, the O2 is configured like some pro gear and unlike most consumer stuff in that the volume control is after the gain stage, meaning too high of a level plus too high gain will cause clipping, no matter what the volume setting is.
> 
> The gain is, as it sounds, a multiplicative factor on the input level. So what you want depends on the output level of whatever you're feeding it with. The higher the level, the lower you want the gain. Some devices have output level specs listed. What are they? If you can't find info, it's something you can readily measure with a multimeter (play a full scale, max-volume-on-everything 60 Hz sine wave and measure AC voltage between an output and ground, like the tip and sleeve parts of a 3.5 mm cable hooked up to the output).
> 
> If you want to guess blindly, I'd do 1x / 3x (3.5x; somewhere in this range), as the 250 ohms Beyers don't need all _that_ much voltage for a decently high volume. However, if you listen to music with a very quiet average level, like some classical and jazz masters, you may need to be a little more serious and actually figure out the correct setting to max out volume without clipping the signal.


Hmm thanks, I checked the tech specs of the O2 on JDS and it says:
Quote:


> Configuration
> Gain 2.5x and 6.5x*
> Volume Potentiometer Taper Alps 15A or 3B
> Batteries 2x9V LSD NiMH


So I guess the 2.5x - 6.5x gain is standard on there ones








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> By the way, fwiw if you have an Essence STX, even the O2's designer would probably say you're better off saving your money than getting an O2 unless you just like having something on your desk to control volume with and so on or also plan to use IEMs or something. (as for actual users, some or many would disagree)


I'm gonna use my STX as a DAC for now but I may change to a real DAC in the future (need to play around seeing as I need surround options for games and I dont wanna use razers craptastic surround stuff if I can help it), plus the STX drivers (unified or official) for some reason with the headphone jack it keeps causing random distortion when I open some programs or quit games & I have to restart to fix it







, its like the signal gets interrupted or confused which gets really annoying







the RCA connection doesnt have this problem (unless my cards just stuffed







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I'd go with the default gain JDS Labs chooses. That is more than enough for the vast majority of headphones. You're only supposed to use more gain when you have no choice.


Well default gain on JDS as I quoted above looks like 2.5x - 6.5x so I may end up going that or the 1.5x - 3.5x

I asked this on Head-Fi as well on the O2 appreciation thread, they said the same as mikeaj, 1x/3x should be good, then one of them sent me a link to this which is "a headphone and amplifier matching tool" website, it has some of the tech specs about headphones and amps but... I'm a n00b so I dont understand it


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Hmm thanks, I checked the tech specs of the O2 on JDS and it says:
> So I guess the 2.5x - 6.5x gain is standard on there ones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna use my STX as a DAC for now but I may change to a real DAC in the future (need to play around seeing as I need surround options for games and I dont wanna use razers craptastic surround stuff if I can help it), plus the STX drivers (unified or official) for some reason with the headphone jack it keeps causing random distortion when I open some programs or quit games & I have to restart to fix it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , its like the signal gets interrupted or confused which gets really annoying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the RCA connection doesnt have this problem (unless my cards just stuffed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Well default gain on JDS as I quoted above looks like 2.5x - 6.5x so I may end up going that or the 1.5x - 3.5x
> 
> I asked this on Head-Fi as well on the O2 appreciation thread, they said the same as mikeaj, 1x/3x should be good, then one of them sent me a link to this which is "a headphone and amplifier matching tool" website, it has some of the tech specs about headphones and amps but... I'm a n00b so I dont understand it


Didn't know it was that high by default. You'll be fine, the O2 is pretty powerful. I had the STX and never had your problem.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Didn't know it was that high by default. You'll be fine, the O2 is pretty powerful. I had the STX and never had your problem.


Yeah think I'm gonna grab the default 2.5x - 6.5x and if needed you can open them up and mod it to change the gain cant you?

Yeah most people dont have my problem... dunno what it is, must be something to do with the card... kinda why I want an amp to get away from this problem


----------



## mikeaj

For what it's worth, STX line output measured at 2.16 V rms full scale, so with everything turned up, greater than 3.25x or so would cause cliplping. That would make 3.5x not that useful unless you limit stuff.

Unless you have replacement resistors handy and a soldering iron and a way to desolder what's there, you can't really open the thing up to change the gains other than to change a setting to 1x (which just requires removing / snipping the resistor that's there). Changing to some non-unity value requires the right resistor for each channel. For example, don't get 1.5x / 3.5x and think to change the 3.5x to 1x. That would be pretty pointless.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> For what it's worth, STX line output measured at 2.16 V rms full scale, so with everything turned up, greater than 3.25x or so would cause cliplping. That would make 3.5x not that useful unless you limit stuff.


Well I wouldnt have everything maxed, I was probably gonna have the audio from Windows at around 50- 70% depending on how loud it comes through the amp then just use the amp to adjust the volume, I'm more wanting to get away from this distortion crap from the headphone jack







gets old fast having to restart after exiting a game or installing a new program...

And I my also move away from a sound card and go full external setup just not 100% sure on that yet
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Unless you have replacement resistors handy and a soldering iron and a way to desolder what's there, you can't really open the thing up to change the gains other than to change a setting to 1x (which just requires removing / snipping the resistor that's there). Changing to some non-unity value requires the right resistor for each channel. For example, don't get 1.5x / 3.5x and think to change the 3.5x to 1x. That would be pretty pointless.


Got the soldering tools already, just dont have resistors but should be able to get a hold of them easy enough

I think I'm just gonna keep the gain at standard 2.5x - 6.5x when I buy and just have my other custom options, RCA, power at the back, 6.3mm HP jack & engraved









Edit, Well after considering everything everyone said I've just pulled the trigger



Getting a Hatchetman engraved because why not?









Lets see how she goes with standard gain


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Have windows volume at 100% and adjust volume from the amp


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Got my O2 today, awesome little amp









I got a question tho, if your just using it on mains power is it ok to keep the batterys in or just take them out?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Got my O2 today, awesome little amp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got a question tho, if your just using it on mains power is it ok to keep the batterys in or just take them out?


I never used batteries. I recall reading that it was weaker when using batteries or something.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I never used batteries. I recall reading that it was weaker when using batteries or something.


Hmm thanks, I'll pull them out tomorrow then

I was more worried about them leaking


----------



## BoredErica

I just got the version with dac and amp and no batteries. I don't see myself taking an external dac or amp on-the-go, ever.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I just got the version with dac and amp and no batteries. I don't see myself taking an external dac or amp on-the-go, ever.


Yeah amps and dacs on the go never made sense to me unless its for a laptop, ones for mobiles are kinda stupid









I pulled the batterys out this morning, almost snapped the RCA wires tho, would of been nice with more slack, there was some stringy solder stuck to some of the points underneath the PCB to so I cleaned them up to


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Got my O2 today, awesome little amp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got a question tho, if your just using it on mains power is it ok to keep the batterys in or just take them out?
> 
> 
> 
> I never used batteries. I recall reading that it was weaker when using batteries or something.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but keeping the batteries in while plugged in does not make it weaker. However, battery-powered operation (with it not plugged in, so no AC power) does drop the power supply rails from a bit less than +/-12V to a bit less than whatever the battery voltages are-those are nominal "9V" or "8.4V" batteries in there so say something around +/-9V or so, but actual voltage depends on the charge level. So when powered off of batteries, max output power before clipping does drop by something ranging from about 0 to 50%. You get less max power for high-impedance headphones because the lower voltage rails mean the outputs can't swing as far.

As for leaving them in, there's no smart charging circuit or anything. It's just a resistor-limited trickle charge so something like a little less than 10 mA going to each battery still even on full charge. My limited understanding of NiMH batteries is that they probably shouldn't blow or leak or anything like that with that kind of sustained charge, but you're at least definitely lowering the capacity of the batteries by abusing them with a nonstop charge for weeks or months on end. If you're not using the batteries, you probably want to take them out as you just did, anyhow.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but keeping the batteries in while plugged in does not make it weaker. However, battery-powered operation (with it not plugged in, so no AC power) does drop the power supply rails from a bit less than +/-12V to a bit less than whatever the battery voltages are-those are nominal "9V" or "8.4V" batteries in there so say something around +/-9V or so, but actual voltage depends on the charge level. So when powered off of batteries, max output power before clipping does drop by something ranging from about 0 to 50%. You get less max power for high-impedance headphones because the lower voltage rails mean the outputs can't swing as far.
> 
> As for leaving them in, there's no smart charging circuit or anything. It's just a resistor-limited trickle charge so something like a little less than 10 mA going to each battery still even on full charge. My limited understanding of NiMH batteries is that they probably shouldn't blow or leak or anything like that with that kind of sustained charge, but you're at least definitely lowering the capacity of the batteries by abusing them with a nonstop charge for weeks or months on end. If you're not using the batteries, you probably want to take them out as you just did, anyhow.


I recalled reading something about how if the batteries were inside, regardless of whether or not it is plugged in, it will use the battery voltages instead of the power coming from the AC adapter. People who were commenting (I think on Head-Fi) stated that after removing the batteries, the sound became louder.


----------



## mikeaj

Well, it should be readily apparent from the circuit diagram, if nothing else.



Look at the top section. Terminal 3 (output) of the 7812, the linear +12V regular, is more or less +12V or close to it as long as AC power is present. Similarly, the output of the 7912 is -12V. Forward voltage drop of the 5818 Shottky rectifiers is less than 0.4V for the power levels you'll see.

Actually, if anybody knows the slightest thing about microelectronics, this whole thing doesn't need explanation and this elementary result is obvious. If not, you'll need to take a leap of faith regardless.

There's no way it uses battery voltages unless somehow you substituted a battery over +12V or have D1 and D5 dead as open circuits (or similarly there's an open circuit in the board) resulting in a board that doesn't even charge the batteries when plugged in. If you have a circuit that can charge the batteries and run off batteries, it means that you're running off AC power, here or in any circuit.*

*except in some weird case where you have so much power draw and a weak enough power supply that the voltage dips enough below the battery level in parts of the 60 Hz cycle that at some points the battery supplies current. No, that's not happening.

fwiw you can unplug it / replug it while it's working and not notice a difference in the sound if the batteries are in, not that I really recommend it.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Got this info from NwAvGuy's: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/o2-details.html
Quote:


> BATTERIES: The batteries are optional and not required for AC operation. If you want to use batteries, consider the following:
> 
> BATTERY CHARGING - The batteries charge whenever AC power is connected with the O2 turned on or off. The charge current automatically tapers off as they reach full charge and you can leave the AC power connected indefinitely if you want. But if you're going to use the O2 mainly as a desktop amp for months at a time you should remove the batteries. Charging time depends on how low the batteries are and which batteries are used but will generally be around 8 - 24 hours.


Read the full details on his website. I hope this helps a bit regarding batteries.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Well ripping the batteries out hasnt caused any problems (not that it should of lol)

Now I'm starting to consider maybe getting an external DAC instead of my STX, surround sounds from games like Wolfenstine The New Order still seem to come through the RCA on the amp even with my STX set to 2 channel (dont know if this would still be the case with a USB DAC tho?). Considering getting the standalone RCA ODAC to go along with this O2









I should of thought about this more and gotten the O2+ODAC combo but I didnt know if the surround sounds from games would come through right


----------



## preston.murrell

i just picked up an asus dx for 35 bucks and wow the difference that it made in my sound was great. never again onboard sound


----------



## andre02

About the first post:
Quote:


> Creative Titanium HD - This is now an aged card. It's no longer for sale, but if you can get your hands on it, it's an excellent sound card at ~$80. This will provide you with just about the best sound you can get via a sound card. As far as price/performance concerned, easily one of the best sound cards on the market...


Where can one find this card at 80$ ??? I hope the post is a mistake. I used to check in Amazon periodically and it was always around140$. True, i haven't checked it in a while 6months-1year or so. The prices on it now on Amazon are 300-400$.

In my country it can be found at around 200$/150Euro. Maybe you meant used.

Anyway is it still worth it to get it at this price ?

Is this: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-24-bit-Interface/dp/B00GU1S2NK/ref=sr_1_53?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-53&keywords=creative+titanium+hd
a good alternative ?

Is it the same thing only in a box ? OR it doesn't have the same performance ?


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> About the first post:
> Where can one find this card at 80$ ??? I hope the post is a mistake. I used to check in Amazon periodically and it was always around140$. True, i haven't checked it in a while 6months-1year or so. The prices on it now on Amazon are 300-400$.
> 
> In my country it can be found at around 200$/150Euro. Maybe you meant used.
> 
> Anyway is it still worth it to get it at this price ?
> 
> Is this: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-24-bit-Interface/dp/B00GU1S2NK/ref=sr_1_53?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-53&keywords=creative+titanium+hd
> a good alternative ?
> 
> Is it the same thing only in a box ? OR it doesn't have the same performance ?


You probably won't even need a sound card unless your mobo onboard is extra sucky. If you're looking for absolute sound performance you need to look at Objective. Is there some feature you're specifically looking for or something?


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> About the first post:
> Where can one find this card at 80$ ??? I hope the post is a mistake. I used to check in Amazon periodically and it was always around140$. True, i haven't checked it in a while 6months-1year or so. The prices on it now on Amazon are 300-400$.


I believe it's the price for a used card. Check for some person selling it here or from other forums or from ebay. I saw one a month ago for $80 but it was sold quickly. lol

Are you going to use it mainly for gaming? My best recommendation is to get the X-Fi Ti (non-HD) only for $35-50 and has a decent sound in Music compared to a cheap on board audio. You can upgrade later and get a DAC/AMP combo with optical input because the X-Fi Ti (non-HD) has only optical outputs.


----------



## daaawx

Stupid question; Do i need any kind of external amp with my beyerdynamic dt 990 headphones (250 ohm) or a sound blaster z soundcard will be just fine? Thanks


----------



## MrMD

I think i may aswell pose this Question here rather than start a new thread

Atm the moment i have a G1 sniper Z87 mobo which has the Soundblaster Recon sound chip on it .

Be4 hand on my old rig i was using an Xonar DGX 5.1. When i made my new build i compared the on-board SB to the DGX,and tbh they both seemed to offer similar quality(At least both were far better to standard realtek on-board sound anyways).I sold my DGX to my friend and used the on-board SB as the quality was near identical and i personally preferred the Creative software suite over Asus's one

Anyways,the recon sound is is good,but there is a small amount of interferance when gaming(as gpu load/framerate increaces,there is a low yet annoying buzz).Its not terrible but annoying,im also finding the drivers/software to be a little glitchy especially when i switch from Speakers to headset and bak,and has lead me to have reboot occasionally to fix it.

So now im looking at getting a new sound card,i would like some higher quality auido than i currently have,the little problems im having with the current On-board SB are just pushing me to get something new.

Currently i use some AT-M50's,i also have some low end speakers which i dont use too often but i am intending to replace in near future with some higher quality ones.But most of the time i get my audio via the headset.

So what is a good sound card option for me? My primary uses are music(i listen to metal,particualy extreme forms of the genre) and gaming.I dont really want to spend more than £80

Thanks for any input


----------



## preston.murrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMD*
> 
> I think i may aswell pose this Question here rather than start a new thread
> 
> Atm the moment i have a G1 sniper Z87 mobo which has the Soundblaster Recon sound chip on it .
> 
> Be4 hand on my old rig i was using an Xonar DGX 5.1. When i made my new build i compared the on-board SB to the DGX,and tbh they both seemed to offer similar quality(At least both were far better to standard realtek on-board sound anyways).I sold my DGX to my friend and used the on-board SB as the quality was near identical and i personally preferred the Creative software suite over Asus's one
> 
> Anyways,the recon sound is is good,but there is a small amount of interferance when gaming(as gpu load/framerate increaces,there is a low yet annoying buzz).Its not terrible but annoying,im also finding the drivers/software to be a little glitchy especially when i switch from Speakers to headset and bak,and has lead me to have reboot occasionally to fix it.
> 
> So now im looking at getting a new sound card,i would like some higher quality auido than i currently have,the little problems im having with the current On-board SB are just pushing me to get something new.
> 
> Currently i use some AT-M50's,i also have some low end speakers which i dont use too often but i am intending to replace in near future with some higher quality ones.But most of the time i get my audio via the headset.
> 
> So what is a good sound card option for me? My primary uses are music(i listen to metal,particualy extreme forms of the genre) and gaming.I dont really want to spend more than £80
> 
> Thanks for any input


i have the asus dx and i like it a big improvement over the realtek. i would assume you want some form of headphone amp? if so id say try finding a used essense card if thats the case I would like one personally but its not in my budget


----------



## MrMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *preston.murrell*
> 
> i have the asus dx and i like it a big improvement over the realtek. i would assume you want some form of headphone amp? if so id say try finding a used essense card if thats the case I would like one personally but its not in my budget


Yea a headphone amp would be good,my current sound blaster recon On board sound has one actually and i couldnt go bak to a card without one.But as far as i can tell pretty much all Soundcards have them now as standard anyways

I assume the DX you have is the older version of this http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-xonar-d2x-ultra-fidelity-71-hi-def-pci-express-sound-card-dolby-dts?


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMD*
> 
> I think i may aswell pose this Question here rather than start a new thread
> 
> Atm the moment i have a G1 sniper Z87 mobo which has the Soundblaster Recon sound chip on it .
> 
> Be4 hand on my old rig i was using an Xonar DGX 5.1. When i made my new build i compared the on-board SB to the DGX,and tbh they both seemed to offer similar quality(At least both were far better to standard realtek on-board sound anyways).I sold my DGX to my friend and used the on-board SB as the quality was near identical and i personally preferred the Creative software suite over Asus's one
> 
> Anyways,the recon sound is is good,but there is a small amount of interferance when gaming(as gpu load/framerate increaces,there is a low yet annoying buzz).Its not terrible but annoying,im also finding the drivers/software to be a little glitchy especially when i switch from Speakers to headset and bak,and has lead me to have reboot occasionally to fix it.
> 
> So now im looking at getting a new sound card,i would like some higher quality auido than i currently have,the little problems im having with the current On-board SB are just pushing me to get something new.
> 
> Currently i use some AT-M50's,i also have some low end speakers which i dont use too often but i am intending to replace in near future with some higher quality ones.But most of the time i get my audio via the headset.
> 
> So what is a good sound card option for me? My primary uses are music(i listen to metal,particualy extreme forms of the genre) and gaming.I dont really want to spend more than £80
> 
> Thanks for any input


My best suggestion for you is to get an AMP/DAC combo with optical inputs where you should connect if from your audio optical output. I believe it should eliminate the interference and listening to music is your priority which benefits it.









Ex. Schiit MAGNI/MODI (optical). Others should do as well but it will cost more. If you wanted cheap, you can try other Chinese made AMP/DAC combo.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrMD*
> 
> I think i may aswell pose this Question here rather than start a new thread
> 
> Atm the moment i have a G1 sniper Z87 mobo which has the Soundblaster Recon sound chip on it .
> 
> Be4 hand on my old rig i was using an Xonar DGX 5.1. When i made my new build i compared the on-board SB to the DGX,and tbh they both seemed to offer similar quality(At least both were far better to standard realtek on-board sound anyways).I sold my DGX to my friend and used the on-board SB as the quality was near identical and i personally preferred the Creative software suite over Asus's one
> 
> Anyways,the recon sound is is good,but there is a small amount of interferance when gaming(as gpu load/framerate increaces,there is a low yet annoying buzz).Its not terrible but annoying,im also finding the drivers/software to be a little glitchy especially when i switch from Speakers to headset and bak,and has lead me to have reboot occasionally to fix it.
> 
> So now im looking at getting a new sound card,i would like some higher quality auido than i currently have,the little problems im having with the current On-board SB are just pushing me to get something new.
> 
> Currently i use some AT-M50's,i also have some low end speakers which i dont use too often but i am intending to replace in near future with some higher quality ones.But most of the time i get my audio via the headset.
> 
> So what is a good sound card option for me? My primary uses are music(i listen to metal,particualy extreme forms of the genre) and gaming.I dont really want to spend more than £80
> 
> Thanks for any input


The Xonar DX is not in the same league as the D2X, and the DX is actually newer. The D2X has a much better DAC, but I don't think it has an amplifier. The DX and D1 don't have an amplifier either, but the ATH-M50 doesn't really need them.

There's also the Creative Sound Blaster Z. It has basically the same DAC as the ASUS Xonar DX and D1, but the Sound Blaster Z has more/better gaming features (much higher regarded virtual surround, EAX for older games, etc), and the Sound Blaster Z also includes a headphone amplifier, and it seems to come with a microphone too. The D2X should provide better sound quality while the Sound Blaster Z should have better virtual surround effects and more software features.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> About the first post:
> Where can one find this card at 80$ ??? I hope the post is a mistake. I used to check in Amazon periodically and it was always around140$. True, i haven't checked it in a while 6months-1year or so. The prices on it now on Amazon are 300-400$.
> 
> In my country it can be found at around 200$/150Euro. Maybe you meant used.
> 
> Anyway is it still worth it to get it at this price ?
> 
> Is this: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-24-bit-Interface/dp/B00GU1S2NK/ref=sr_1_53?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-53&keywords=creative+titanium+hd
> a good alternative ?
> 
> Is it the same thing only in a box ? OR it doesn't have the same performance ?


Yeah, I've seen them pop up on here from around $70-90 used (USD). Even with whatever international shipping is, I'm sure you'd only end up paying a total of $100 out of pocket.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> About the first post:
> Where can one find this card at 80$ ??? I hope the post is a mistake. I used to check in Amazon periodically and it was always around140$. True, i haven't checked it in a while 6months-1year or so. The prices on it now on Amazon are 300-400$.
> 
> In my country it can be found at around 200$/150Euro. Maybe you meant used.
> 
> Anyway is it still worth it to get it at this price ?
> 
> Is this: http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-24-bit-Interface/dp/B00GU1S2NK/ref=sr_1_53?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-53&keywords=creative+titanium+hd
> a good alternative ?
> 
> Is it the same thing only in a box ? OR it doesn't have the same performance ?


Yeah he meant used. You can usually find them on ebay for $70-100. Not sure if you can find something like this where you're located. Also, if I recall correctly the Titanium HD is a step above that external version.

If you want an affordable sound card for virtual surround and better sound quality, look into the Sound Blaster Z. Its virtual surround is supposedly better than the X-Fi cards like the Titanium HD, and it includes a headphone amplifier unlike the Titanium HD. You could always upgrade it to an external DAC and amp later on if you need the extra sound quality and want the gaming features.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daaawx*
> 
> Stupid question; Do i need any kind of external amp with my beyerdynamic dt 990 headphones (250 ohm) or a sound blaster z soundcard will be just fine? Thanks


You're much better off having an external amplifier


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The Xonar DX is not in the same league as the D2X, and the DX is actually newer. The D2X has a much better DAC, but I don't think it has an amplifier. The DX and D1 don't have an amplifier either, but the ATH-M50 doesn't really need them.
> 
> There's also the Creative Sound Blaster Z. It has basically the same DAC as the ASUS Xonar DX and D1, but the Sound Blaster Z has more/better gaming features (much higher regarded virtual surround, EAX for older games, etc), and the Sound Blaster Z also includes a headphone amplifier, and it seems to come with a microphone too. The D2X should provide better sound quality while the Sound Blaster Z should have better virtual surround effects and more software features.


Personally I would like to know if the D2X only has line level outputs.
AFAIK there is no mentioning about headphone outputs just like in the D1/DX and the D1/DX has 100ohm output impedance (aka. line level output).


----------



## ajx

I need heaset since i ve sold my Syberia V2, moreover i use BT wireless earbuds for gaming and smartphone purpose
I would buy headset able to deliver high quality for smartphone / gaming (mainly fps, survival horor and sim racing) / movies
My computer native audio sucks (realtek 97 or something similar), i dont know much about amp, DAC...
AKG 7XX caught my eyes not because of its beautiful design but i have very large head and only flexible heatband and structure like AKG 7XX appears to me like comfortable
Siberia V2 was only the heaset which after some hours it doesnt tighten my head or overheat my ears
It looks like having similar building
About gaming, fps requires to hear accurately where sound is located, i guess its called spatialization, i heard AKG K series have a nice and medium balanced sound
About survival horor, it also requires spatialization but also heavier bass (hearing monster screams from far distance)
About sim racing, hearing engine sound its capital (up and downshifting at the right moment), you sould able to distinguish all incoming sounds
Music, allrounder, jazz, pop, elecro, soul, rock, i dont have single type of music
Movie, need to hear clear voices. Sometimes when i m watching movies, sound effects cover voices, its barely audible.
I honestly dont know if it exists such headset for my needs
AKG 612 PRO has currently my favor while i heard about heatband bumps from K/Q 701 that may annoy some people
K/Q 7xx also much more expensive
Surprisingly, K702 isnt really more expensive than Q701
I am looking forward to see your suggestions

Note: I am kinda novice/starter to audio stuffs, sorry to not using technical audio terms

Thanks


----------



## dennjoe

Hey guys, was hoping to get some opinions on my audio upgrade that I'm looking at. Currently I have a turtle beach px21 that has done Ok till now but have decided to upgrade all my peripherals lately and am undecided about what headset to get. Was looking at getting a hyperx cloud but have thought about getting an individual headphone with probably a modmic setup. I was wondering is there a good price equivalent headphone without mic that is about the same cost as the hyperx cloud but better quality. Also if it helps I have decided to get a sound card probably a creative sound blaster z. Living in Ireland and will probably order from amazon if that helps. Any other info needed just ask. Thanks


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dennjoe*
> 
> Hey guys, was hoping to get some opinions on my audio upgrade that I'm looking at. Currently I have a turtle beach px21 that has done Ok till now but have decided to upgrade all my peripherals lately and am undecided about what headset to get. Was looking at getting a hyperx cloud but have thought about getting an individual headphone with probably a modmic setup. I was wondering is there a good price equivalent headphone without mic that is about the same cost as the hyperx cloud but better quality. Also if it helps I have decided to get a sound card probably a creative sound blaster z. Living in Ireland and will probably order from amazon if that helps. Any other info needed just ask. Thanks


The Sound Blaster Z comes with a mic already.

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=107797

So to save some cash, maybe just use that and get something like the Audio Technica ATH-AD500X or A500X (closed variant with isolation but worse soundstage).


----------



## dennjoe

Hey gunner, I had actually meant to ask about the quality of the mic with the sound card thanks for reminding me. I realise it always depends on the environment and with my gaming area being occupied by a vocal 4 year old I had gotten used to the mic picking up only me in general, is the area mic of good quality because I spotted an oem version of the blaster z on Amazon for half the price without the mic and was querious what you guys think. I'm not saying at all I'm not up for changing but have been annoyed with bad mic quality from the start and was thinking the modmic 4.0 would be a nice upgrade. Cheers again


----------



## boredgunner

I don't have the Sound Blaster Z, but I've read comments on here about that mic being better than the mics found on common gaming headsets. The ModMic is supposed to be really good too, if you can afford headphones like the AD500X and the ModMic then that's a good option. If not, I'd probably skimp on the mic before the headphones.


----------



## dennjoe

Ya just read a couple of opinions on the creative mic and since I'll probably be getting that I'll use it for a bit anyway. On the price side of things I was wondering if there would be a cheaper option of headphones maybe. I'm not too worried about super sound quality and was hoping to spend around €80ish if possible. It's just gaming that I do right now and a friend advised me the sound quality of the hyperx was good. Was just wondering is there a bit better quality for the same price. Thanks again


----------



## djriful

Mic on SB Z series aren't that great. They are suitable for regular Skype use and such without too much noise (tapping keyboards, clicking mouse during gaming session).

Best to get ModMic. USB Mic, Headphone built-in Mic for better noise isolation.

The SB-Z software to isolate the noises is hit or miss.


----------



## dennjoe

Ya what I'm gonna do is get the modmic and have decided to get a creative aurvana live and try that out.


----------



## twerk

Carrying on my audio buying rampage... Can anyone recommend some portable headphones for around £100? The only option I can think of is the Audio Technica ATH-M50X, for £99.99. Nothing comes to mind that comes close for around that price range.

A similar sound signature to the beyerdynamic DT770s would be ideal.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Carrying on my audio buying rampage... Can anyone recommend some portable headphones for around £100? The only option I can think of is the Audio Technica ATH-M50X, for £99.99. Nothing comes to mind that comes close for around that price range.
> 
> A similar sound signature to the beyerdynamic DT770s would be ideal.


The M50X does have a similar sound signature to the DT 770 Pro so perhaps that's the way to go. I haven't compared the two, though comparisons I've read say that the DT 770 Pro has a better sound stage and overall better sound quality.


----------



## BoredErica

"Far better"? You sure you're not under placebo?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Carrying on my audio buying rampage... Can anyone recommend some portable headphones for around £100? The only option I can think of is the Audio Technica ATH-M50X, for £99.99. Nothing comes to mind that comes close for around that price range.
> 
> A similar sound signature to the beyerdynamic DT770s would be ideal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The M50X does have a similar sound signature to the DT 770 Pro so perhaps that's the way to go. I haven't compared the two, though comparisons I've read say that the DT 770 Pro has a better sound stage and overall better sound quality.


Recommend you look into M40x, which is said to sound like M50x but cost way less.

I don't get why everybody and their mom fixate on the M50x like it's the only headphone in that line from that company, lol.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> "Far better"? You sure you're not under placebo?
> Recommend you look into M40x, which is said to sound like M50x but cost way less.
> I don't get why everybody and their mom fixate on the M50x like it's the only headphone in that line from that company, lol.


In all fairness, the fixation is over the M50 and M50X. I guess it's because that's the highest model in that lineup, they're very easy to drive, and the V-shaped sound signature that they carry is very popular.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> In all fairness, the fixation is over the M50 and M50X. I guess it's because that's the highest model in that lineup, they're very easy to drive, and the V-shaped sound signature that they carry is very popular.


Uhm...

The "far better", are you sure it isn't placebo? line wasn't intended to be in the post. I was going to reply to the guy talking about sound cards and how onboard is crap. It wasn't meant to talk about the headphones here. You know how OCN saves uncompleted posts as "drafts" and auto-adds them into your next post in the thread? Yea...









I hang out with some audio sub regulars over at LTT and a few have tried to do a/b testing (not sure if it was blind, but w/e) and found that they couldn't decide whether they liked the M50x's sound or the M40x's sound better. The lower price of the M40x would be a killer if we only look at the regular price on Amazon. $100 vs $170 is a 70% lower price tag. That's actually *HUGE*. (Just calculated price difference of 67% when we look at differences in price for second-hand sales on Amazon, even with the weirdo selling M50x at $135 instead of the $150 others are selling them at.) There are many headphones out there in these price ranges, and I think among them are lots of crap but a few gems like the M40x that somehow nobody ever seems to talk about or care about for some reason.

Always up for somebody else's opinion, too. If anybody's got a chance to hear one side-by-side, go ahead, give us your thoughts, it will be greatly appreciated. But, if it is true what my audio-sub friends say (and I trust their opinions, especially since people there deal with sub $250 headphones as practically their job), then everybody who is currently getting M50x are doing it wrong.

I keep posting, and then editing my post at the risk of other people not reading the edited portions.

GG my life.


----------



## twerk

Apparently the M40X is slightly more neutral, the M50X has more emphasis on the highs and mids. It's still V shaped, but just less so than it's older brother.

I'll see if I can find somewhere to try both. Thanks for your input guys.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Apparently the M40X is slightly more neutral, the M50X has more emphasis on the highs and mids. It's still V shaped, but just less so than it's older brother.
> 
> I'll see if I can find somewhere to try both. Thanks for your input guys.


Yes, that is the general consensus. I don't think it would be a big difference in sound though.







The M50 is a bit cheaper than the M50x, but one larger difference is that it doesn't have detachable cables.


----------



## yezz12

I've found a Creative Titanium (non-HD) for €30 secondhand. My current card is Xonar DG, should i jump on the deal before it's too late? Would it be a huge upgrade?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> I've found a Creative Titanium (non-HD) for €30 secondhand. My current card is Xonar DG, should i jump on the deal before it's too late? Would it be a huge upgrade?


I don't think it will be a _huge_ upgrade.


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I don't think it will be a _huge_ upgrade.


Hearable?


----------



## BoredErica

That varies wildly based upon each person. However, I'm willing to guess no. If you're buying a sound card for sound quality you should probably get an external amp/dac instead, if you really want to pay for small improvements. I bet if you turn off all the sound effects on the Titanium and just compare in a blind test, bones to bones, you will have a very hard time telling them apart. On the other hand, what speakers/headphones do you have? You might wanna consider upgrading that when you can.


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> That varies wildly based upon each person. However, I'm willing to guess no. If you're buying a sound card for sound quality you should probably get an external amp/dac instead, if you really want to pay for small improvements. I bet if you turn off all the sound effects on the Titanium and just compare in a blind test, bones to bones, you will have a very hard time telling them apart. On the other hand, what speakers/headphones do you have? You might wanna consider upgrading that when you can.


Sold my Sennheiser HD598 yesterday, turns out i like Beyerdynamic more. Bought a Beyerdynamic DT990 250 Ohm, hopefully will be here tomorrow. I'll try it unamped first but it's likely i'll have to amp it with like a Bravo V2 or a Fiio E11k. AMP+DAC is not for me because i play games.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yezz12*
> 
> Sold my Sennheiser HD598 yesterday, turns out i like Beyerdynamic more. Bought a Beyerdynamic DT990 250 Ohm, hopefully will be here tomorrow. I'll try it unamped first but it's likely i'll have to amp it with like a Bravo V2 or a Fiio E11k. AMP+DAC is not for me because i play games.


I play games a lot too. I don't see the appeal of a sound card at all, to me it's just lower sound fidelity. It saves space I guess, as it's inside the computer. I think virtual surround is overrated, (Dolby Headphones in particular being particularly crappy), and Razer Surround is free. And I'm not even sure I even want any virtual surround at this point.

Plus, I need the O2/Odac so I can face the correct direction for when I pray to our lord and savior, Nwavguy, 5 times a day.









What don't you like about the HD598s, BTW? Just curious.


----------



## yezz12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I play games a lot too. I don't see the appeal of a sound card at all, to me it's just lower sound fidelity. It saves space I guess, as it's inside the computer. I think virtual surround is overrated, (Dolby Headphones in particular being particularly crappy), and Razer Surround is free. And I'm not even sure I even want any virtual surround at this point.
> 
> Plus, I need the O2/Odac so I can face the correct direction for when I pray to our lord and savior, Nwavguy, 5 times a day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What don't you like about the HD598s, BTW? Just curious.


The balanced, neutral sound


----------



## IBooNI

Hello everyone can anyone school me on Chinese DACs? I asked for a Recommendation here before for a dac to pair with my hd650s and bottlehead crack. I'm currently using a xonar st for a source. I got recommendations before and the schiit Bitfrost, musical paradise mp-d1, and midterm steeplechase were recommended. However, I am currently living in china and the typical brands you hear about are more expensive here, while the Chinese brands are cheaper here than if they were exported. I recently visited a high end audio area where I am located and sw a bunch of audio gear that _appeared_ to be well made but I have no idea if there are any reputable Chinese brands. Can anyone school me? So far I have heard the brands audio gd and yulong that seem to be reputable. Someone was trying to sell me a yaqin dac, I have read decent things about their amps but could not find any info on this dac.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IBooNI*
> 
> Hello everyone can anyone school me on Chinese DACs? I asked for a Recommendation here before for a dac to pair with my hd650s and bottlehead crack. I'm currently using a xonar st for a source. I got recommendations before and the schiit Bitfrost, musical paradise mp-d1, and midterm steeplechase were recommended. However, I am currently living in china and the typical brands you hear about are more expensive here, while the Chinese brands are cheaper here than if they were exported. I recently visited a high end audio area where I am located and sw a bunch of audio gear that _appeared_ to be well made but I have no idea if there are any reputable Chinese brands. Can anyone school me? So far I have heard the brands audio gd and yulong that seem to be reputable. Someone was trying to sell me a yaqin dac, I have read decent things about their amps but could not find any info on this dac.


I've read good things about FIRE PHOENIX DAC-02 or DAC-05 cheap and good but from Hong Kong. Also, you can check Aune X1 or Matrix M-Stage USB and i believe both are made in China. I'm looking for a Chinese AMP/DAC as well to replace my O2.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> I've read good things about FIRE PHOENIX DAC-02 or DAC-05 cheap and good but from Hong Kong. Also, you can check Aune X1 or Matrix M-Stage USB and i believe both are made in China. I'm looking for a Chinese AMP/DAC as well to replace my O2.


Why do you want to replace your O2?


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Why do you want to replace your O2?


I need more power on my Q701s... and i feel the O2 power is lacking on these type of HP and i don't want to increase more gain and experience clipping. Also, i wanted to try a warmer SS amp for a change. Sometimes the HP are fatiguing and i don't want to collect more HP if possible.


----------



## yezz12

Anyone here experienced with DT990s 250 Ohm + Bravo amp like Bravo V2/V3?


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> I need more power on my Q701s... and i feel the O2 power is lacking on these type of HP and i don't want to increase more gain and experience clipping. Also, i wanted to try a warmer SS amp for a change. Sometimes the HP are fatiguing and i don't want to collect more HP if possible.


There is no way that an O2 isn't enough power for Q701. You can calculate the power requirements in milliwatts with some simple math.

You can find other reasons for getting a different amp, but lack of power isn't a valid one.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

We'll this is what i felt on my Q701 and i think some other Q701 users as well felt this. This HP's are one of a kind!


----------



## SlyFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IBooNI*
> 
> Hello everyone can anyone school me on Chinese DACs? I asked for a Recommendation here before for a dac to pair with my hd650s and bottlehead crack. I'm currently using a xonar st for a source. I got recommendations before and the schiit Bitfrost, musical paradise mp-d1, and midterm steeplechase were recommended. However, I am currently living in china and the typical brands you hear about are more expensive here, while the Chinese brands are cheaper here than if they were exported. I recently visited a high end audio area where I am located and sw a bunch of audio gear that _appeared_ to be well made but I have no idea if there are any reputable Chinese brands. Can anyone school me? So far I have heard the brands audio gd and yulong that seem to be reputable. Someone was trying to sell me a yaqin dac, I have read decent things about their amps but could not find any info on this dac.


I don't think you could go wrong with Yulong or Audio GD. Unfortunately I haven't heard either so I can't really share my thoughts. Personally if it was me though and I had to decide, I'd go with Audio GD.


----------



## Aznlotus161

I use my headphones pretty much whenever I'm on my desktop.

I've read the Head Fi "Gaming" headphone threads and all, but I would like some suggestions from fellow OCN'ers.

Budget ~$150 with intent for gaming (FPS and shooters).

Dumbed it down to these options:

AKG Q 701
ATH-AD900x
Sennheiser HD 598


----------



## GoldenboyXD

You need a good AMP for Q701. The ATH-AD900X is okay with no amp also for HD 598.

Q701 (with AMP) or ATH-AD900X (no AMP) > HD 598 if you can't decide. lol


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> You need a good AMP for Q701. The ATH-AD900X is okay with no amp also for HD 598.
> 
> Q701 (with AMP) or ATH-AD900X (no AMP) > HD 598 if you can't decide. lol


Hah yeah man, thanks for the great suggestions.

I was thinking of driving the AKG with the FiiO E10K if I were to go that route.

Currently have the M50s so the great sound stage of the AD900X interested me although I hear it's very dry sounding.

Leaning towards the 598 for comfort and more of an in-between of the two if that makes any sense.

*EDIT*: After some further digging, the Beyerdynamic DT990 250 OHM pro seems to fit with my preferences at the moment.

I want some decent bass that has the sound stage for a nice fun gaming experience.

According to Audiobot, the E10k can power these fine, but is the $ really worth it?

I'll just be hooking it up to the onboard to the back of my desktop.


----------



## BoredErica

I was flirting with the idea of upgrading my mic (Blue Yeti). Although... the fridge that's 15 feet away from me will still generate background noise. I can't think of an easy way to set up my computer station so that it's acoustically viable (for speaker listening AND microphone recording), spacious enough for all of my stuff with my large desk, and not hot. (My bedroom is hot, small, and upstairs. Quieter, but too many drawbacks for a lower noise floor on my mic...

I can't use omnidirectional because it will pick up the sound of my computer case from behind the microphone, increasing the noise (I even doublechecked by recording via Audacity and looking at the wave forms.)


----------



## ajx

I would ask if a combo
Ha Info Plus V1/V2 (DAC/AMP) + Xonar gaming sound card
would suit for an AKG 612 PRO
I need spatialization for gaming purpose but want know if adding a DAC would be benefit
free feel to suggest any other DAC or sound card









my budget might be wide if needed


----------



## Aznlotus161

Philips Fidelio X2 review by InnerFidelity:

I may be slightly _bassed_, but these seem to be what we were waiting for!












Anyone in Europe thinking about these? I see that they are available on Amazon UK for £217.48.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Someone from Asia here, definitely interested in getting these!


----------



## Natskyge

Whats the "performance" diffrence betwen the ad700x and sennheiser 558.








I am asking cuz where i live ( Denmark ) the ad700x costs around 350$ while the 558 "only" Cost 200$.








( yeah Danish prices are insane







)


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Whats the "performance" diffrence betwen the ad700x and sennheiser 558.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking cuz where i live ( Denmark ) the ad700x costs around 350$ while the 558 "only" Cost 200$.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( yeah Danish prices are insane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


They're said to be about equal in sound quality, but the AD700X is known to have a bigger sound stage. At that price I could not justify buying the AD700X.


----------



## Pheozero

Alright, so right now I'm looking into buying a new pair of headphones because my Astros have gotten really worn. I am looking at the the AKG Q701 with a Schiit stack and the AD900x with just a Modi. I just can't decide on which one to actually get. Can someone sway me in either direction?

I primarily play BF4 if that helps.


----------



## boredgunner

Why not the AD900X with Schiit stack? Either way, if this is primarily for gaming then either route will be just fine and it won't make a big difference.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Someone from Asia here, definitely interested in getting these!


Nice...wish there was a step-up program from my X1s







...may consider selling them when the X2s are available.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> Alright, so right now I'm looking into buying a new pair of headphones because my Astros have gotten really worn. I am looking at the the AKG Q701 with a Schiit stack and the AD900x with just a Modi. I just can't decide on which one to actually get. Can someone sway me in either direction?
> 
> I primarily play BF4 if that helps.


They're similar headphones as boredgunner mentioned.

First off, I would try to demo them and gauge which is more comfortable for extended gaming sessions.

How comfortable they are after 3 hrs of use can be a deciding factor for sure.

Also, take a look at Sennheiser HD598s too if you haven't already.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> They're said to be about equal in sound quality, but the AD700X is known to have a bigger sound stage. At that price I could not justify buying the AD700X.


Thanks for the help


----------



## Nnimrod

So, I just bought a maximus VII Hero and while it is a surprisingly beautiful board, the onboard audio is more crap than I had anticipated.

My old sound card was PCI, and this board of course doesn't have a PCI slot, so I thought "Well, they brag alot about the onboard audio and the emi shield, so maybe it'll be alright until I get a new sound card"

NOPE. This thing is worse than... everything :/


----------



## orick

What PCI sound card do you have? Techpowerup said the onboard sound is "impressive".

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/ASUS/MAXIMUS_VII_HERO/13.html


----------



## Nnimrod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> What PCI sound card do you have? Techpowerup said the onboard sound is "impressive".
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/ASUS/MAXIMUS_VII_HERO/13.html


xonar DG or DS, can't remember. looked at the review and I don't know what to say... my experience says otherwise


----------



## orick

I have the Xonar DG PCI card and will probably look for PCI bus in my next motherboard. It's a great little card for so cheap.

While on that, let me ask you guys something, is the digital output through optical basically same quality through the onboard audio vs. my Xonar DG or any other discreet card? I mean digital is digital, right? No processing involved?

Reason I ask is I am thinking of repurposing this old build into a HTPC and it will connect to a logitech Z-5500 through optical and let the logitech do the decoding. So I can just use the onboard audio for that, right?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> I have the Xonar DG PCI card and will probably look for PCI bus in my next motherboard. It's a great little card for so cheap.
> 
> While on that, let me ask you guys something, is the digital output through optical basically same quality through the onboard audio vs. my Xonar DG or any other discreet card? I mean digital is digital, right? No processing involved?
> 
> Reason I ask is I am thinking of repurposing this old build into a HTPC and it will connect to a logitech Z-5500 through optical and let the logitech do the decoding. So I can just use the onboard audio for that, right?


Yes and no. Both are sending digital signals to your Z-5500, but the soundcard may send a cleaner digital signal. It will also be able to send Dolby Live! and other such signals. Usually only higher end boards have that. Since they have to pay for the technology rights. This probably won't matter for a Z-5500 though.


----------



## BoredErica

If sound can annoy you that much and you hear such a difference from these two sources, maybe what you really need is an external DAC to make everything nicer.


----------



## dipanzan

Hey guys.









I was recommend the Superlux 668b/681/Evo from this thread, but due to time constraints and difficulties ordering from overseas I couldn't get those HP. Long story short, I got the Presonus HD7 which is available in my country for around ~40-45$, so I got those. They are very similar to Superlux I've been told, after some googling. My question is can I get velour pads for this HP? Something comfortable, like a Senn HD215/558 style?

Thanks.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

The pads for Superlux 668B/681/EVO are the same as Presonus HD7 and Samson SR850. If you can't find it in your area. You can buy a pair from ebay for around $12/pair.


----------



## Thready

I would like to add my personal sound card to the list. It's a Soundblaster Omni. I had to get an actual sound card because my on board sound can't go very high and I wanted something I could sit on my desk and be able to manage the different devices I connected to it without having to get behind my PC. It also has a nice knob on the top for volume control.

Here's my review of it.

http://www.overclock.net/products/creative-sound-blaster-omni-surround-5-1-external-usb-surround-sound-sb1560/reviews/6744


----------



## Nnimrod

So I need a new audio solution, and since I'm not real knowledgeable about what's available, I decided to just look for a Titanium HD, per the recommendation in this thread. It may be old, but that doesn't bother me if it's actually the best option. Is there a better way to buy one than Ebay? Does this look like a good buy?

Also, feel free to suggest something else. My usage is music (numerous genres) + games. I don't know anything about the higher leveled stuff, nor do I have the cash, so a AiO sound card is the best solution for me. My headphones are rather low impedance ATH-700s.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> So I need a new audio solution, and since I'm not real knowledgeable about what's available, I decided to just look for a Titanium HD, per the recommendation in this thread. It may be old, but that doesn't bother me if it's actually the best option. Is there a better way to buy one than Ebay? Does this look like a good buy?
> 
> Also, feel free to suggest something else. My usage is music (numerous genres) + games. I don't know anything about the higher leveled stuff, nor do I have the cash, so a AiO sound card is the best solution for me. My headphones are rather low impedance ATH-700s.


Get it while it's low. Usually it sells around $100 or more. But the lowest price I've found early this year was around $80.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> So I need a new audio solution, and since I'm not real knowledgeable about what's available, I decided to just look for a Titanium HD, per the recommendation in this thread. It may be old, but that doesn't bother me if it's actually the best option. Is there a better way to buy one than Ebay? Does this look like a good buy?
> 
> Also, feel free to suggest something else. My usage is music (numerous genres) + games. I don't know anything about the higher leveled stuff, nor do I have the cash, so a AiO sound card is the best solution for me. My headphones are rather low impedance ATH-700s.


That's a good deal. A used Titanium HD or ASUS Xonar Essence ST/STX is as good as it gets in that price range. The ASUS benefits from a headphone amplifier which you don't need with those headphones, while the Titanium HD has better virtual surround for gaming (according to those who have compared X-Fi CMSS-3D to Dolby Headphone), EAX for older games, and much higher quality recording.


----------



## Nnimrod

ok, I bought it.

Soon I shall be saved from SupremeFX...


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> ok, I bought it.
> 
> Soon I shall be saved from SupremeFX...


Good. The next upgrade path from this is having a dedicated DAC/AMP for serious Audiophile needs but for now this will do because it is considered an Audiophile grade soundcard + excellent gaming features. The headphone output of this card is decent enough to power headphones (<300Ohm) but some headphone require a separate AMP. Enjoy your setup first for awhile before upgrading so you can tell the difference.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> ok, I bought it.
> 
> Soon I shall be saved from SupremeFX...


My Titanium HD is still putting in work after 4 or 5 years now. Can't remember exactly when I got it, but I believe it was around my second year of uni (i.e. about 4 years now). It's great for music and games, and that's really all I can imagine most use it for. Even has RCA out if you decide to go with an amp down the road.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> My Titanium HD is still putting in work after 4 or 5 years now. Can't remember exactly when I got it, but I believe it was around my second year of uni (i.e. about 4 years now). It's great for music and games, and that's really all I can imagine most use it for. Even has RCA out if you decide to go with an amp down the road.


Not to mention optical output if you'd rather connect it to a DAC.


----------



## axipher

It's been a while since I've been in this part of the forum, but now that I'm stable at a desk job and working a side business at home, having good audio is key. I move around a lot at work though so I opted for in-ear headphones. I got a great deal on some Ostry KC06A's so they are in the mail: http://www.head-fi.org/t/734625/review-ostry-kc06a-a-new-winner. These will be upgrading my old JVC HA-FR201 that I'll keep around for going to workout with because of their secure fit, amazing isolation, and good bass response for workout music.

Now I've been content with my little USB DAC that came with my Seinheiser PC333D's but looking for a dedicated headphone DAC to drive these new 16 Ohm earbuds from a 3.5mm source like my laptop, Samsung Galaxy SII X or old iPod Touch. I've been looking at things like the FiiO E16 and FiiO E11. I might also use it for my gaming headset too on LAN days. Volume control on the amplifier would be helpful bonus as I've always preferred dials as opposed to sliders or buttons for volume control, especially with a full screen program open where I can't get to Windows sounds control easy.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Not to mention optical output if you'd rather connect it to a DAC.


Good call. I forgot I actually use mine for my PS3. Which reminds me. The optical input allows you to take sound from a console or other receiver that has optical out and run it through your PC. This works especially well for my case since everything is centered around my PC and monitor.


----------



## edo101

My M6P broke apart. can I get a recommendation for an under 25 bucks headphones with in line mic. I'm not an audiophile but I also like decent sound. It would be nice if it had a play-pause button or volume sliders but the in line mic is important to me


----------



## Sondre123

So I recently bought the MMX 300 and were originally going to use my brothers soundcard because he was getting a new one, but he decided to keep it and now I need to buy a soundcard.

I've been looking at the ASUS Xonar DX but I don't know too much about all this so I need some advice.

So this is the question I guess. Would the Xonar DX be good for competitive gaming where directional sound is pretty important (mainly playing CS:GO atm), or are there better options out there around the same price?


----------



## Nnimrod

So what's the consensus on Creative's drivers? I'm using the official drivers atm, and although they have a pretty bad rep, the PAX drivers seem to be pretty buggy for a lot of people.

Also, I can't seem to find an EQ anywhere in the official driver package? How can something like this be missing? On the plus side, it sounds pretty good out of the box (which was actually a bare card in a quart ziploc bag, inside a ball of bubble wrap, thanks ebay)

edit: for the titanium HD


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> So what's the consensus on Creative's drivers? I'm using the official drivers atm, and although they have a pretty bad rep, the PAX drivers seem to be pretty buggy for a lot of people.
> 
> Also, I can't seem to find an EQ anywhere in the official driver package? How can something like this be missing? On the plus side, it sounds pretty good out of the box (which was actually a bare card in a quart ziploc bag, inside a ball of bubble wrap, thanks ebay)
> 
> edit: for the titanium HD


Creative seems to have cleaned up their act. I've been using the Titanium HD with the latest official drivers on Windows 7, no problems at all.


----------



## Nnimrod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Creative seems to have cleaned up their act. I've been using the Titanium HD with the latest official drivers on Windows 7, no problems at all.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> So what's the consensus on Creative's drivers? I'm using the official drivers atm, and although they have a pretty bad rep, the PAX drivers seem to be pretty buggy for a lot of people.
> 
> Also, I can't seem to find an EQ anywhere in the official driver package? How can something like this be missing? On the plus side, it sounds pretty good out of the box (which was actually a bare card in a quart ziploc bag, inside a ball of bubble wrap, thanks ebay)
> 
> edit: for the titanium HD


Install the Creative Console Launcher for the EQ. It's available as one in PAX drivers.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> So what's the consensus on Creative's drivers? I'm using the official drivers atm, and although they have a pretty bad rep, the PAX drivers seem to be pretty buggy for a lot of people.
> 
> Also, I can't seem to find an EQ anywhere in the official driver package? How can something like this be missing? On the plus side, it sounds pretty good out of the box (which was actually a bare card in a quart ziploc bag, inside a ball of bubble wrap, thanks ebay)
> 
> edit: for the titanium HD


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Creative seems to have cleaned up their act. I've been using the Titanium HD with the latest official drivers on Windows 7, no problems at all.


The Feb 2014 (XFRL_PCDRV_L11_3_00_2015.exe)? Surprisingly the one I am using with the least amount of problems as of now is _2004...and it's not even listed on the Creative site. I may have to try the 2015 if I have another problem with this one. Thought I had tried it and had no good luck.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> Install the Creative Console Launcher for the EQ. It's available as one in PAX drivers.


I never got along with PAX drivers.


----------



## Nnimrod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> Install the Creative Console Launcher for the EQ. It's available as one in PAX drivers.


much better


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nnimrod*
> 
> much better


The only bug that annoys me is the mode switcher located in the lower left portion of the creative console launcher. Every time i click it to change modes there is a windows error message but the mode still changed after (using Win 8.1 not sure if the error shows in prior windows version)... and sometimes the sound got messed up or missing.

There is a simple a small program though that works, but i have not tried it yet since i don't bother changing it from time to time and i usually stick with game mode anyways and just clicking the EQ and CMSS-3D. If you wan't you can check this out:









http://www.freewebs.com/spectra9/xfmc.html


----------



## MrMD

So i narrowed down my choices for a new soundcard/dac for my PC

Its either gonna be an Asus U7, or a FiiO E10k.

The primary function will be drive my M50's for music and gaming,but a set of decent quality speakers i plan to buy at some point soon aswell.

The Asus U7 allows me to hook up a headset and speakers at the same time,aswell as the Asus software suite for fine tuning EQ ect

But Fii0 e10k's is meant to be REALLY good.

Halp! what to get.They both cost the same and i dont know if the Quality of the Fii0 will be worth it over the extra options the asus will give me.


----------



## billbartuska

What good are "features" if the sound is worse?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Agreed, Bill. It's the sound that's important!


----------



## daaawx

Would it be worth it to pay 165$ (including shipping and taxes) for the Schiit Magni? Any other alternative for Europe?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daaawx*
> 
> Would it be worth it to pay 165$ (including shipping and taxes) for the Schiit Magni? Any other alternative for Europe?


I would go with O2 amps.
EHP-O2 @ £78 + shipping.
Head 'n' HiFi O2 @ 95€ + shipping.
Head 'n' HiFi Desktop-O2 @ 125€ + shipping. (I have this one)


----------



## BoredErica

Ditto.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daaawx*
> 
> Would it be worth it to pay 165$ (including shipping and taxes) for the Schiit Magni? Any other alternative for Europe?


Are you by chance in the UK?


----------



## LazarusIV

Quick question about the Sennheiser 350 SE headset. It doesn't sound quite as rich as I had thought it would, is that because they aren't quite broken in yet or is that just how they sound? What's the best way to break in a good headset? Thanks all!


----------



## pez

I doubt 'break in' is going to do much for that set. Depending on your sound card you may be able to EQ them a bit to tailor them more to your liking.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I doubt 'break in' is going to do much for that set. Depending on your sound card you may be able to EQ them a bit to tailor them more to your liking.


Well then, it looks like I'll be messing with the eq on my sound card. Thanks for the info!


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Well then, it looks like I'll be messing with the eq on my sound card. Thanks for the info!


No problem







.

I'm back on the desktop site and see you have a Xonar DG. I'm willing to bet there are at least a few 'features' they have for gaming. I know my Titanium HD in 'Game Mode' produces some features that don't sound great to me, but always makes me think, "this would be good for lower-end headphones or headsets"..


----------



## BoredErica

You should be EQing anyways unless the FR of your headphone is EXACTLY as you like it.


----------



## pez

Well that's an argument in and of itself. Kind of the reason we have so many different headphones. Speakers need EQ to make up for deficiencies in how rooms are setup, constructed, etc. However, any time I apply EQ to most headphones, it's for the worse. I still stand pretty strongly on the 'if you need to EQ your headphone, you bought the wrong headphone" side of the street.


----------



## billbartuska

+1 ^^


----------



## Swim

I was wondering how the DT770 were in gaming, I will be matching it with my ZxR so I wanted to know how good they were in pinpoint accuracy


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swim*
> 
> I was wondering how the DT770 were in gaming, I will be matching it with my ZxR so I wanted to know how good they were in pinpoint accuracy


Read the MLEHGG review about them.
In a nutshell: Accuracy is good but bloated bass masks all the finer details.


----------



## pez

DT770 were ok for gaming, but bass could cloud up lots of things. Soundstage was halfway decent, and the fact they were closed helped them a great deal.


----------



## gima

Great thread with lots of good information.

I'm wanting to upgrade my headphones and am hoping someone may be able to share some knowledge or experience with me.

I'm currently using a pair of SONY MDR-V700's that I've had for about 10 years now. They're connected to a splitter coming off the back of my Creative X-FI Titanium (non-hd). The other side of the splitter goes to my 2.1 Logitech z2300 setup -- I know the Logitech setup is old, and may not sound the best but I normally use headphones more than speakers so it's a moot point.

I've read so many reviews about how bad the v700's are I'm surprised it's taken me 10 years to want to upgrade haha. I mainly use the headphones for gaming/music. Mostly FPS games (counter-strike, TF2, BF, Borderlands, Crysis etc..) and sometimes WOW, DOTA 2, and some other classics. I'm currently using a MODMIC and have been real happy with it so I just plan on moving it to whatever I decide on getting.

So I enjoy that the v700's block out everything and really puts you in the game, apparently that is both good and bad for gaming headsets. I've read that the open backs provide a better soundstage and are better for positioning in FPS type games. I'm not sure how much that matters as I've been using these v700's for 10 years and don't really know any different. I'm hoping maybe someone else has used or have owned the v700's and have moved to something else and could share their experience.
*
Either way, this is what I came up with and wanted some opinions knowing what headphones I'm coming from.*

One of these sets of headphones..

-Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 OHM (I figured these would be most like what I have now in terms of closed back - not sound quality)

-Beyerdynamic DT-990 250 OHM

-Sennheiser HD 598 (not thrilled with the color of them but it's not that big of deal)

or maybe

-Sennheiser G4ME ZERO ( Don't really need the mic though, plan on moving the modmic over)

*and then for power doing the following*

-Replace the headphones and buy an Objective 2 AMP.

OR

-Replace the headphones and buy the Soundblaster Z with amp built in.

I know there is a lot of talk about the DT770's (even right above in this thread) but I'm very curious as to how the bass compares to my older v700's. I really need to try some of these on and hear them in person but there isn't much around where I live. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated!


----------



## boredgunner

I can't compare them, but I'd get the DT 990 Pro since it's bass heavy and is said to have a big sound stage. Open and bassy at the same time. Unless you actually NEED the isolation that is, if you do need it then the DT 770 Pro is the obvious choice. The 250 Ohm one is probably your best bet for either one, with the amps you're looking at.

I wouldn't bother with the SB-Z. An Objective2 amp or something comparable is the way to go. You should be able to connect it to your sound card.


----------



## Aznlotus161

DT 990 is a bit more fun than a 598.

It's bright and bassy.

If you want dark and bassy, look into the Philips Fidelio X1s.

You will not be disappointed as it's bass yet to the point where the bass doesn't overpower the open soundstage.

Fidelio X2s just came out recently and is apparently a tad less bassy but has improved in its sound.

Here's a nice write-up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/729413/philips-fidelio-x2-a-review-by-baycode


----------



## pez

Another vote for DT990 and a Schiit Magni or O2 combo







.


----------



## gima

I was looking at the magni last night, looks good. Leaning towards the dt990's w/ either amp at this point. Hopefully I'm in for a nice change coming from these old v700s


----------



## pez

I assume the V700s are a probably V-shaped in how they sound (good amount of treble, ok mids, and pretty good amount of bass). IIRC, the DT990 have a good amount of bass to them, but shouldn't be so different in the type of sound that it'll be a shock. However, how much better they are probably will be a shock to you







.


----------



## gima

Yea thats what im hoping for







. My only concern moving to an open back set is how much of that the modmic will pick up and spit back out during gameplay. With the closed back its not an issue, and I havent really seen any tests with the 990s + modmic. Going to try and find some locally to test this weekend, don't have high expectations though. Thanks again for the help!


----------



## pez

I don't think the DT990 will leak sound enough to where it will affect your mic's performance







.


----------



## Magical Eskimo

As an owner of DT990s and a very sensitive microphone, I can assure you no one will be able to hear what leaks out the headphones


----------



## gima

Great info! Thanks. Can't wait to get these and test it out.


----------



## gima

I've read in some postings/reviews that the o2 amp is not powerful enough to fully drive the 250ohm version of the 990's. There was some debate and in most cases no definitive answer was ever reached. Any thoughts?


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gima*
> 
> I've read in some postings/reviews that the o2 amp is not powerful enough to fully drive the 250ohm version of the 990's. There was some debate and in most cases no definitive answer was ever reached. Any thoughts?


That's hilarious. Nwavguy has already calculated the power requirements of these cans.
And here is my explanation:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/221772-calculating-audeze-lcd-2s-power-requirement-vs-o2/

If you need help figuring this stuff out HA or Sound Science of Headfi's got you covered.
(The answer is yes, O2 is powerful enough unless you like instant hearing damage.)


----------



## gima

Thanks for the info. Funny thing is, I think it was on head-fi I saw the post saying it wasn't powerful enough. Need to decide on the odac or just amp, I suppose the combo would come in handy if I were taking the laptop on vacation or something. Although I could always just buy the standalone at a later time if needed. Guess I've narrowed it down to the o2 + 990s! Thanks for the help


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gima*
> 
> Thanks for the info. Funny thing is, I think it was on head-fi I saw the post saying it wasn't powerful enough. Need to decide on the odac or just amp, I suppose the combo would come in handy if I were taking the laptop on vacation or something. Although I could always just buy the standalone at a later time if needed. Guess I've narrowed it down to the o2 + 990s! Thanks for the help


Headfi is full of BS. There's some good stuff in there but you need to already have a good BS filter.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Headfi is full of BS. There's some good stuff in there but you need to already have a good BS filter.


^This, definitely need a good filter when you check out Headfi!


----------



## gima

Haha, seems to be the case in a lot of places.

I went up to Guitar Center and checked out their offerings. They actually had the DT770 - 80ohms, the box was already opened and the headphones were just laying in the box. So I tried them on and they fit great (real comfortable), not real heavy, and overall just looked pretty well made. Sales guy approached me and asked if I needed help so I asked about the 250ohm version of the 770's, and if they had any 990's. He told me they didn't make a 250, just the 80. I told him that was not accurate, but thanks anyway. He offered to check and see if anyone else had them and obviously he was able to pull up the DT990's (250 ohm --foot in mouth--) @ $229 and said he could order them for me on the website. I asked him how that was any different than me ordering them on the website and he said that he would be able to track it.







I wanted to ask him if he was serious or not but just thanked him for his time and said I'd order them online.

I'll be placing my orders this weekend and will post back once I receive the items and can test them in comparison to the old v700's.

Thanks again for the help!


----------



## dizystrife

Ok so I have a question. I came here hoping to get good advice on a new headset for PC gaming and I found this guide. Apparently, headsets are a bad idea. Lol. So my question is this. Are you able to pinpoint enemy position with the Creative Aurvana Live 2? They are about where my budget is, and they sound better than the first edition according to your guide. Also, is the built in, in line mic good quality? I really can't afford to buy a separate mic at this point. I don't always use in game voice chat, but I do use vent, TS3 etc as well as sometimes stream on Twitch.tv, so a mic with decent quality is needed. I currently have a kingston hyperx headset, but I'm pretty disappointed in the sound while I watch movies or listen to music. Thanks for any advice you can give me.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dizystrife*
> 
> Ok so I have a question. I came here hoping to get good advice on a new headset for PC gaming and I found this guide. Apparently, headsets are a bad idea. Lol. So my question is this. Are you able to pinpoint enemy position with the Creative Aurvana Live 2? They are about where my budget is, and they sound better than the first edition according to your guide. Also, is the built in, in line mic good quality? I really can't afford to buy a separate mic at this point. I don't always use in game voice chat, but I do use vent, TS3 etc as well as sometimes stream on Twitch.tv, so a mic with decent quality is needed. I currently have a kingston hyperx headset, but I'm pretty disappointed in the sound while I watch movies or listen to music. Thanks for any advice you can give me.


Not as neutral as other cans.

I would consider it more of a bassy and "fun" pair of headphones, but still solid.

Picture in your mind a large "V", that's what the sound signature looks sounds/like.

Have you looked at the ATH-AD700x or maybe even a pair of 558s? A Zalman clip on mic will be great for under $10, pair it up with anything really.

I would personally go for open headphones for better positioning for CS games and etc.


----------



## dizystrife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aznlotus161*
> 
> Not as neutral as other cans.
> 
> I would consider it more of a bassy and "fun" pair of headphones, but still solid.
> 
> Picture in your mind a large "V", that's what the sound signature looks sounds/like.
> 
> Have you looked at the ATH-AD700x or maybe even a pair of 558s? A Zalman clip on mic will be great for under $10, pair it up with anything really.
> 
> I would personally go for open headphones for better positioning for CS games and etc.


Yeah I don't like the lack of an actual headband and the lack of bass is a deal breaker for me on those. Thanks for the advice though.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dizystrife*
> 
> Yeah I don't like the lack of an actual headband and the lack of bass is a deal breaker for me on those. Thanks for the advice though.


But really do consider going open...those will change your gaming experience esp. FPS shooters or something that relies on awareness like CS.

Won't have to rely on your mini-map as much since positional cues will be much more detailed.

I wouldn't say lacking, but it's just not boomy and overpowering.

If you want more bass head options: Denon D1100 or if you save a bit of cash... Philips Fidelio X1.

I can personally attest for the quality of the X1s for a bass head.


----------



## dizystrife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aznlotus161*
> 
> But really do consider going open...those will change your gaming experience esp. FPS shooters or something that relies on awareness like CS.
> 
> Won't have to rely on your mini-map as much since positional cues will be much more detailed.
> 
> I wouldn't say lacking, but it's just not boomy and overpowering.
> 
> If you want more bass head options: Denon D1100 or if you save a bit of cash... Philips Fidelio X1.
> 
> I can personally attest for the quality of the X1s for a bass head.


I missed your original comment about the 558. Those ones don't look too bad.


----------



## V4lky

Hi guys, what would be a great headphone for both pc and console gaming, with some music here and there? So far I read only of pc config but nothing about consoles.
Price range is not really a problem. I just need guidance on what to get and what to avoid thanks


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> Hi guys, what would be a great headphone for both pc and console gaming, with some music here and there? So far I read only of pc config but nothing about consoles.
> Price range is not really a problem. I just need guidance on what to get and what to avoid thanks


More info please...
What console/consoles you are talking about? PS3, PS4, xbox360, xbone?

Because for example xbox360 has analog output while xbone doesn't. So you need a DAC for starters with the xbone if you want to use any headphones with it.
And PS4 has a headphone jack in the DS4 controller while PS3 doesn't.


----------



## V4lky

I currently own a PS3 and I'm going to get PS4 and Wii U for sure, with some space for an Xbone if there are games that interest me, but I'm not going to get them now, what I plan is to buy the audio stuff in advance for my PC needs and basically when I want to go console just be able to switch the audio to console gaming.

Oh btw I'm not really looking for extreme positional audio, since I rarely play any FPS, I would focus more on a comfortable headset which is both good with gaming, music and movies.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> I currently own a PS3 and I'm going to get PS4 and Wii U for sure, with some space for an Xbone if there are games that interest me, but I'm not going to get them now, what I plan is to buy the audio stuff in advance for my PC needs and basically when I want to go console just be able to switch the audio to console gaming.
> 
> Oh btw I'm not really looking for extreme positional audio, since I rarely play any FPS, I would focus more on a comfortable headset which is both good with gaming, music and movies.


For that kind of all-around usage a DAC+amp combo with optical connection is needed.

Optical Modi + Magni + any recommended headphones.
Audioengine D1 + any recommended headphones.
Or Astro Mixamp which is only useful for console gaming.


----------



## V4lky

Should I get the Shiit stack here in U.K? Or maybe go for other brands?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> Should I get the Shiit stack here in U.K? Or maybe go for other brands?


Definitely worth getting here, keep an eye out on Head-Fi for anyone selling, or if you visit http://www.electromod.co.uk he's a small reseller in Bracknell that sells most Schiit equipment.

I got my magni/modi stack off Head-Fi for £160 I think it was


----------



## V4lky

Thanks for your comments so far, now about the headphones, I got interested in the AKG brand, but in particular, the K712 Pro, they are basically the same as the K702 65th Anniversary, only not with the premium price of the Annie.

In the reviews and in the Mad Lust's guide I read that they pack the absolutely interesting aspects of the previous AKGs but with more bass, placing them in a somewhat middle line between good positional audio of the K701 and being a fun headphone capable of good performance aside gaming, with good comfort even after many hours.

I'm pretty sure there are also other good brands that cost half as much and still delivers great performance, since I'm not an audiophile and I might just find that many other models sounds the same to me, what do you think? Are they really worth the price? I'm still going to test them once I'm in U.K. (I will transfer in early 2015)


----------



## Systemlord

I'm so spun around about which 5.1 gaming sound card to get. I have done my research and I guess the last couple years Creative released some really crappy sound cards and I'm shocked by the lackluster of choices, I'm an audiophile and am most interested in excellent sound primarily for 5.1 channel gaming, not interested in headphone.

I also require the 3 3.5 mm pin connectors for Sub/Center, L/C/R. It almost seems like sound cards for gaming in 5.1 are few and far between. I have also noticed the PC gaming 5.1 speaker systems are a drastic drop in quality. You can't buy high-end speaker systems for PC's anymore, Logitech Z5500 anyone?

All the mixed reviews out there confuse the buyer, anybody know what card is worth buying?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I'm so spun around about which 5.1 gaming sound card to get. I have done my research and I guess the last couple years Creative released some really crappy sound cards and I'm shocked by the lackluster of choices, I'm an audiophile and am most interested in excellent sound primarily for 5.1 channel gaming, not interested in headphone.
> 
> I also require the 3 3.5 mm pin connectors for Sub/Center, L/C/R. It almost seems like sound cards for gaming in 5.1 are few and far between. I have also noticed the PC gaming 5.1 speaker systems are a drastic drop in quality. You can't buy high-end speaker systems for PC's anymore, Logitech Z5500 anyone?
> 
> All the mixed reviews out there confuse the buyer, anybody know what card is worth buying?


Creative's crappy sound cards were the Recon3D series which are no longer made. The Z series on the other hand is very popular.

A passive 5.1 setup with a receiver is the way to go for gaming, but I understand that doesn't fit into everyone's budget. You should look into the Creative Sound Blaster Z which should have everything you need. If you want something a bit higher end, there's the Sound Blaster ZxR which has a much better DAC than the others, though at that price you could get a 5.1 receiver.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V4lky*
> 
> Thanks for your comments so far, now about the headphones, I got interested in the AKG brand, but in particular, the K712 Pro, they are basically the same as the K702 65th Anniversary, only not with the premium price of the Annie.
> 
> In the reviews and in the Mad Lust's guide I read that they pack the absolutely interesting aspects of the previous AKGs but with more bass, placing them in a somewhat middle line between good positional audio of the K701 and being a fun headphone capable of good performance aside gaming, with good comfort even after many hours.
> 
> I'm pretty sure there are also other good brands that cost half as much and still delivers great performance, since I'm not an audiophile and I might just find that many other models sounds the same to me, what do you think? Are they really worth the price? I'm still going to test them once I'm in U.K. (I will transfer in early 2015)


I'm not sure your price point, but for the convenience of having different inputs and even optical for the PS3 or Xbox One, the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 has two optical ports for the consoles and RCA in for PC connections. You could still pair it with a Magni, and it'd be a great DAC to start out with that will carry you a little bit further than a Modi will. Just a thought







.

http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-DacMagic-100/dp/B0078Q4FEG/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415333218&sr=1-2&keywords=Cambridge+Audio+Azur+DacMagic+100

I believe Cambridge Audio is a British/U.K.-based company, too.


----------



## V4lky

Do you think I could benefit more with going with optical ports only and just get a sound card for Dolby Headphone?

I might want to update with a better AMP/DAC down the line, sadly I noticed there are not many available options for multi-purpose projects (and I just got informed that the Wii U actually doesn't have any optical ports, huge booooo) the vast majority just assume you're going to focus on PC gaming with a sound card (which btw will be my first and foremost gaming setup so I guess I have to get a soundcard right away if I want to get the most from games).


----------



## ThunderGod

what about Fiio E 10K?


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThunderGod*
> 
> what about Fiio E 10K?


E10K has been solid for me so far.

Can't really beat the price considering.


----------



## RallyMaster

I have had a Fiio E10 (predecessor to the E10K) for more than a year and a half now. It is a very convenient device, especially if you're using it in an office setting.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> I have had a Fiio E10 (predecessor to the E10K) for more than a year and a half now. It is a very convenient device, especially if you're using it in an office setting.


Only qualm or caveat I would mention is that it doesn't really support a mic input.

Anyone know of a decent DAC/AMP combo with a mic input to plug in my V-moda boom mic?


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aznlotus161*
> 
> Only qualm or caveat I would mention is that it doesn't really support a mic input.
> 
> Anyone know of a decent DAC/AMP combo with a mic input to plug in my V-moda boom mic?


Nah, it does not because it's Fiio designed it to be a DAC, and not an ADC/DAC combo. It does a good job of being a DAC, which is what it was marketed for. I guess the need for a mic input is really a niche since most devices now either have a mic built in (like laptops/tablets/phones) and most desktop users have no real need for a mic anyway (and most webcams have mics).


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*
> 
> Nah, it does not because it's Fiio designed it to be a DAC, and not an ADC/DAC combo. It does a good job of being a DAC, which is what it was marketed for. I guess the need for a mic input is really a niche since most devices now either have a mic built in (like laptops/tablets/phones) and most desktop users have no real need for a mic anyway (and most webcams have mics).


Good points.

Yeah, I agree it's done well and I'm pleased.

Just a hassle to unplug everything when I need my mic and also volumes are at completely diff. levels.

No biggie as I only need my mic for CS:GO occasionally.

Maybe I should have looked into the Audioengine D1, I believe it does support mic input.


----------



## ThornTwist

Hi, I'm looking to spend around $250-$350 on either a 2.1 or 5.1 system for my new build. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I would like good all around sound meaning good lows mids and highs, but I listen to rock and metal mostly and play video games a lot so something that would accommodate that would be good. I remember when I first got my z506 speakers playing Skyrim I could hear how the sound shifted from in front of me to the side to behinde me and I thought it was sweet. But I have a new job now so its time for an upgrade and I figured I should have my sound system on par with the rest of the build so if anyone knows this stuff and can tell me what would be good for that price range I'd gladly like to hear it. There might even be some rep in it for you.









Edit: I was looking at Sony Electronics Home Theatre, Hd Bravia, 5.1, 1000 Watts, Black and was wondering if this was a good option or not...


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking to spend around $250-$350 on either a 2.1 or 5.1 system for my new build. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> I would like good all around sound meaning good lows mids and highs, but I listen to rock and metal mostly and play video games a lot so something that would accommodate that would be good. I remember when I first got my z506 speakers playing Skyrim I could hear how the sound shifted from in front of me to the side to behinde me and I thought it was sweet. But I have a new job now so its time for an upgrade and I figured I should have my sound system on par with the rest of the build so if anyone knows this stuff and can tell me what would be good for that price range I'd gladly like to hear it. There might even be some rep in it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I was looking at Sony Electronics Home Theatre, Hd Bravia, 5.1, 1000 Watts, Black and was wondering if this was a good option or not...


Someone will chime in with some actual suggestions, but if you're willing to buy secondhand, a couple bookshelf speakers, an old or 'vintage' receiver, and a sub can and will be worlds ahead of any modern system you buy today.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Someone will chime in with some actual suggestions, but if you're willing to buy secondhand, a couple bookshelf speakers, an old or 'vintage' receiver, and a sub can and will be worlds ahead of any modern system you buy today.


I created a thread. Here it is.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Question, do right angled RCA adapters do anything noticeable to the audio?

Got my O2 and ODAC (wasnt 100% sure I wanted a USB DAC) and dont like having straight cables in both, its ugly


----------



## pez

No.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Can someone help me pick a set of bookshelf speakers and subwoofer?

So far I'm debating between the Yamaha NS 6490 from bestbuy. 149.99

And

Polk Monitor40 Series 2 from newegg 119.99


Looking at a Klipsch KSW 10 sub for 90bucks on Craigslist.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Can someone help me pick a set of bookshelf speakers and subwoofer?
> 
> So far I'm debating between the Yamaha NS 6490 from bestbuy. 149.99
> And
> 
> Polk Monitor40 Series 2 from newegg 119.99
> 
> Looking at a Klipsch KSW 10 sub for 90bucks on Craigslist.
> 
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.


The Fluance SX6 is often said by experienced users to be the best in its price range. I think that's what I'd go with. As for a subwoofer, I like the affordable Dayton lineup like the SUB 800/1000/1200. Not sure how the Klipsch compares though.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The Fluance SX6 is often said by experienced users to be the best in its price range. I think that's what I'd go with. As for a subwoofer, I like the affordable Dayton lineup like the SUB 800/1000/1200. Not sure how the Klipsch compares though.


Those Fluance SX6 do seem like great speakers. Reviews are mostly positive.

I mentioned the Klipsch KSW 10 b cause it's listed locally for 90 bucks and also has great reviews.


----------



## Systemlord

Energy 5.1 Take 5 Classic Home Theater System has been rated above average performance for something this size! You'll need a receiver with 5.1 though. I have heard it in person and was blown away!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Another annoying question, are USB cables with ferrite beads really needed? my ODAC came with a USB cable that had a couple but its not long enough so I need a new cable, was just wondering if its worth buying a longer cable with or without them

Thanks


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Another annoying question, are USB cables with ferrite beads really needed? my ODAC came with a USB cable that had a couple but its not long enough so I need a new cable, was just wondering if its worth buying a longer cable with or without them
> 
> Thanks


I wasn't annoyed by your last question







. I just wanted to clear it up before any craziness got put in here







.

Also, as long as it's not a dollar-store cable, you should be ok. Even a monoprice cable is ok. Just get one that feels/looks sturdy. Shielding is about the only thing you've got to be worried about. Anything that's fairly thick should do.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I wasn't annoyed by your last question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I just wanted to clear it up before any craziness got put in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also, as long as it's not a dollar-store cable, you should be ok. Even a monoprice cable is ok. Just get one that feels/looks sturdy. Shielding is about the only thing you've got to be worried about. Anything that's fairly thick should do.


Ah ok cool, thanks









Any USB to mini USB you could suggest?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Ah ok cool, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any USB to mini USB you could suggest?


Honestly, something like this would do you just fine







. Not sure your shopping options, but something that at least looks like they tried a bit







.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Honestly, something like this would do you just fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Not sure your shopping options, but something that at least looks like they tried a bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thanks







, I was looking at the "audiophile" ones but $500 for a USB cable is a bit much...


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I was looking at the "audiophile" ones but $500 for a USB cable is a bit much...


Yeah, over in the OCN Headphones & Earphones thread we kinda make fun of those cables







. Come join us in the thread if you ever have any general audio questions as well: OCN HEC.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, over in the OCN Headphones & Earphones thread we kinda make fun of those cables
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Come join us in the thread if you ever have any general audio questions as well: OCN HEC.


I forgot about that thread









One more question then I'm good







, if I was to run a right angle off my dac then a splitter into the right angle would that be ok to hook my speakers and amp into? getting kind of tired unplugging and replugging









Thanks


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I forgot about that thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more question then I'm good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , if I was to run a right angle off my dac then a splitter into the right angle would that be ok to hook my speakers and amp into? getting kind of tired unplugging and replugging
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


That should be just fine. In rare situations it can cause a volume degradation, so just be sure to check each source before and after splitting







. You shouldn't have any problems, though.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> That should be just fine. In rare situations it can cause a volume degradation, so just be sure to check each source before and after splitting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You shouldn't have any problems, though.


Cool thanks









Now to go hunting for parts


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Snatched a used Yamaha Receiver for 25bucks on Craigslist, and some new Klipsch speakers from Best buy. Just need to hunt for a Sub.


----------



## EPiiKK

Im looking to improve my audio experience when gaming (AAA tittles and Dota 2), and i was looking at one of these headphones:
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/484237
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K142HD
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K272HD
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K242HD
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/504628
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/504767

Which should i go for? Or should i go for a better soundcard or external dac/amp? Im currently using creative aurvana live headphones.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Im looking to improve my audio experience when gaming (AAA tittles and Dota 2), and i was looking at one of these headphones:
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/484237
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K142HD
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K272HD
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/K242HD
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/504628
> http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/504767
> 
> Which should i go for? Or should i go for a better soundcard or external dac/amp? Im currently using creative aurvana live headphones.


Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohm
Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohm
AKG K550
Superlux HD330 + Beyer velour pads or 2x AKG pleather pad

But the CAL! is a fine headphone so I don't really know if you need any upgrade to the headphones for gaming purposes... It would be a different story if you have muted your game audio and just listen to music while playing games.
What exactly are you even looking from the upgrade? Better comfort? Better directional accuracy? Better immersion?


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohm
> Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohm
> AKG K550
> Superlux HD330 + Beyer velour pads or 2x AKG pleather pad
> 
> But the CAL! is a fine headphone so I don't really know if you need any upgrade to the headphones for gaming purposes... It would be a different story if you have muted your game audio and just listen to music while playing games.
> What exactly are you even looking from the upgrade? Better comfort? Better directional accuracy? Better immersion?


Mostly comfort, and a better music experience. Would i need to put more money into the upgrade to actually feel the difference? Would dac/amp or a better soundcard be worth it?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Mostly comfort, and a better music experience. Would i need to put more money into the upgrade to actually feel the difference? Would dac/amp or a better soundcard be worth it?


You should almost always make the investment in headphones first. Then an amp and DAC. However, if you're using onboard, it wouldn't hurt to look into it.

The options Tiiho put out there are good recommendations. It's more of what genres of music you're into and what kinda sound you're looking for.


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> You should almost always make the investment in headphones first. Then an amp and DAC. However, if you're using onboard, it wouldn't hurt to look into it.
> 
> The options Tiiho put out there are good recommendations. It's more of what genres of music you're into and what kinda sound you're looking for.


I listen to such a wide range of music so im not looking for a particular sound signature, just a good "all-arounder"


----------



## pez

IIRC, the 880 is the all-rounders of the bunch.


----------



## Dotachin

Hello folks another noob here, recently ordered some gear based on this thread, should arrive this week: Optical Modi, Asgard 2, AKG Q70, cables and a Xonar to try Dolby Headphone (why not).

I already own a Vmoda m100 (not very popular here it seems but I think they will be fine for bassy stuff) and a dragonfly 1.2 I will sell soon.

Now I would like to ask what's the general consensus regarding the new Hifiman HE-400i since it is selling for the same $500 as the HE-500 (discontinued). Did they fix the "harsh in the highs" or should I run to grab a HE-500 while they last (I'm still taking my time with my new stuff and learn a bit before spending another $500 anyway)?


----------



## EPiiKK

Just visited the local electronics store and tried Sennheiser HD 449 ,100€ and AKG k142 HD, 79€, i liked their sounds, much cleaner and wider than my current phones and the bass was tighter. Are there better options out there if i invest, say 120€ or should i pick either one?


----------



## ThornTwist

So here's what I got for audio now:

Power Acoustik PWM-16 Pre-Amp Equalizer
Modi USB Digital/Analog Convertor
Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer
M-Audio AV40

How did I do? I would like to get some good high range speakers to complement the overall sound since its pretty bass heavy. anyone know what I should be looking for?


----------



## EPiiKK

Guys, Asus xonar DGX or Sound blaster Audigy FX with DT440? for music and gaming.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So here's what I got for audio now:
> 
> Power Acoustik PWM-16 Pre-Amp Equalizer
> Modi USB Digital/Analog Convertor
> Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer
> M-Audio AV40
> 
> How did I do? I would like to get some good high range speakers to complement the overall sound since its pretty bass heavy. anyone know what I should be looking for?


The AV40 should be working really good, have you tried lowering the bass/sub level?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Guys, Asus xonar DGX or Sound blaster Audigy FX with DT440? for music and gaming.


Go with the Audigy FX, great for both music and gaming.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> The AV40 should be working really good, have you tried lowering the bass/sub level?


I haven't hooked the stuff up yet, people were just telling me that the speakers were bass heavy.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> So here's what I got for audio now:
> 
> Power Acoustik PWM-16 Pre-Amp Equalizer
> Modi USB Digital/Analog Convertor
> Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer
> M-Audio AV40
> 
> How did I do? I would like to get some good high range speakers to complement the overall sound since its pretty bass heavy. anyone know what I should be looking for?


OK so I have my bookshelf speakers connected to each other, I have my speakers connected to the controller, I have my sub connected to the controller and I have the controller connected to the DAC and I have my DAC connected to the PC. Everything is connected via Aux cables except the speakers which are connected by wire. The sound isn't working. How do I configure this in windows so I get sound or what do I have to do or do differently?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Have you checked default playback devices?


----------



## ThornTwist

I ran sound for windows and I can't get it to pick up sound on test no matter what I do. Also I can't get my sub to be picked up.


----------



## ThornTwist

There is a small short wire that came with the controller and I'm not sure what to do with it. Also Does the controller need to be pluged in? I didn't see any power cable but it looks like there is a light where the CD/AUX button is. there is also a GND REM RED B+ for wires but not sure what to do with it. Can someone help me out here?


----------



## ThornTwist

The Power Acoustik PWM-16 Pre-Amp Equalizer controller looks like something for a car stereo system, not for PC.


----------



## pez

^If that's what you're using to route your speaker and sub through, that's why you're not getting sound. That does require power, and because it's really for a car-audio application, you'd need to wire in the power needed manually. I don't know if there's an adapter or anything for it. Why did you go with that over a normal receiver or even one of those speaker amps mentioned on the first and second pages?


----------



## ThornTwist

At this point I just want someone to tell me how I can get both my speakers and sub working together in any way possible as fast as possible. I have a day and a half to play dragon age, which I have not been able to get past the initial cut scenes yet. It is a game that requires crazy amounts of hardware to play on Ultra setting at 1440 which is what I'm playing at.


----------



## THEStorm

Does anyone use a Antlion Modmic with an orthodynamic driver headphone such as the Hifiman HE-400? Just want to make sure that the magnet that attaches the mic to the headphone wont interfere with the driver.


----------



## Systemlord

So are Creative gaming cards going the way of the dinosaur? I haven't seen many successors to their top end gaming series cards.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> At this point I just want someone to tell me how I can get both my speakers and sub working together in any way possible as fast as possible. I have a day and a half to play dragon age, which I have not been able to get past the initial cut scenes yet. It is a game that requires crazy amounts of hardware to play on Ultra setting at 1440 which is what I'm playing at.


The Power Acoustik equalizer needs power. You can probably just wire a 12v 2A-5A AC to DC adapter. If you have a spare laptop adapter that is 12v then usually it will be enough.

But why were you using an equalizer in the first place? You can use software based equalizer without having to potentially decrease audio quality through another device.

You can just get 2 RCA splitters from your Modi. One set of RCA cables will go to the sub and the other to the AV40s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So are Creative gaming cards going the way of the dinosaur? I haven't seen many successors to their top end gaming series cards.


Audio doesn't generally progress as fast as other technology. The ZxR is about to be two years old though.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So are Creative gaming cards going the way of the dinosaur? I haven't seen many successors to their top end gaming series cards.


I have a Creative TiHD that I have no plans of ever really getting rid of. However, I keep it in 'audio mode'. Gaming mode actually does make a huge different in BFBC2 and BF4, but half the time I forget to switch the mode so it's a hassle. I listen to music A LOT more than I game, and Audio Creation mode is very different, lol.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I have a Creative TiHD that I have no plans of ever really getting rid of. However, I keep it in 'audio mode'. Gaming mode actually does make a huge different in BFBC2 and BF4, but half the time I forget to switch the mode so it's a hassle. I listen to music A LOT more than I game, and Audio Creation mode is very different, lol.


Is i PCI-e? I had a great card, but it was PCI interface and my motherboard doesn't have any thank God! I never paid more than $150 for a sound card.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> The Power Acoustik equalizer needs power. You can probably just wire a 12v 2A-5A AC to DC adapter. If you have a spare laptop adapter that is 12v then usually it will be enough.
> 
> But why were you using an equalizer in the first place? You can use software based equalizer without having to potentially decrease audio quality through another device.
> 
> You can just get 2 RCA splitters from your Modi. One set of RCA cables will go to the sub and the other to the AV40s.


Thanks! REP. Got the sub working and it sounds amazing.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So are Creative gaming cards going the way of the dinosaur? I haven't seen many successors to their top end gaming series cards.


Sound cards tend to stay around for a while, especially now that 3D audio and EAX are things of the past. Like pez I'll be keeping my Titanium HD for the foreseeable future, since I play a large amount of older games and it's a good enough DAC for my current audio setup.

The ASUS Xonar Essence STX and Xonar DX have been around for much longer than the Sound Blaster Z series if I recall.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Is i PCI-e? I had a great card, but it was PCI interface and my motherboard doesn't have any thank God! I never paid more than $150 for a sound card.


Yep, PCI-e x1. I'm actually going to move it into my bottom slot pretty soon as with it right under my GPU (ACX cooler) it's causing my temps to rise about 5-7C on the GPU...yet still a super normal temp (80 or below).


----------



## Aznlotus161

Looking for some HiFiMAN HE-400 owners!

Any input on owning them? Any nuisances?

Might be my next pair so I would appreciate any feedback









EDIT: Also, a reliable velour pad retailer?


----------



## FreeElectron

Why isn't this topic being updated?
It's 2011...


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Why isn't this topic being updated?
> It's 2011...


I don't know what calender your using, but it's 2014 for the rest of us.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I don't know what calender your using, but it's 2014 for the rest of us.


Does


Spoiler: This



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simca*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're new to audio, you've probably already been bitten by the headset bug. You're coming here either looking for or have the impression that headsets are best for gaming. Sure, they're convenient, maybe even look cool, but they're extremely poor value and they typically are garbage.
> 
> Headsets target gamers with these impressions and charge them obscene amounts of money for what they're getting. You're overpaying for the convenience and for the mic. The mic quality is typically terrible, though some headsets have decent audio quality on the mic. The positioning and audio quality is almost always poor. Even if you manage to find a headset with a good soundstage, it'll still fail in the audio quality department.
> 
> Not all headsets are bad. If you MUST buy a headset, be prepared to have some money to blow, because the only headsets recommended now are:
> 
> $130 - Skullcandy Plyr 2 [Barely recommended]
> $166 - Sennheiser PC360 [Best Value]
> $256 - Sennheiser G4ME ONE/ZERO
> $325 - Audio Technica ADG-1 [Only available in the Asia-Pacific market at the moment but can be imported. -*This is essentially an Audio Technica AD700X with a very good quality boom mic.*
> Worst mistake you can make is wasting your money on a headset thinking, "It can't be that bad." Most people do that then end up back here trying something new and saying, "Wow, can't believe I wasted my money on this over marketed garbage, should have read this guider off the bat"
> 
> Now that we're past that, let's move onto what you SHOULD use. A headphone+Microphone. In the previous layout we went according to price and gaming effectiveness. Yeah, let's junk that a bit. We're going to have a small section dedicated to gaming and then move onto music preference.
> 
> *$36 - Superlux HD681 Evo*
> Lack slightly more bass than the 668B's, but because of this trade off are even better for gaming. The comfort should be similar to the HD668B's.
> 
> *$50 - Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B*
> These headphones are cheap, slightly uncomfortable, but have great bass and soundstage. They're excellent for gaming, provide you with bass you typically don't get on entry level headphones and headsets and did I mention they're cheap!
> 
> *$74 - Creative Aurvana Live!*
> 
> These are really good for gaming, much more comfortable than the Samson's and prove nice bass to go along with your music and gaming. Highly recommended at it's price.
> 
> *$128 - Sennheiser HD558*
> The HD558s follow a nice heritage for a headphone that was great for gaming back in the day the HD555's and improve upon that headphone. It comes at a higher price point, but so does everything it seems these days. These lack bass, but make up for it with excellent detail and a really good soundstage.
> 
> *$130 - Creative Aurvana Live 2!*
> 
> The Creative Aurvana Live 2's are the successors of the Creative Aurvana Live!'s which are actually still on sale. Perhaps successor isn't the right word.. perhaps these are the next step ups from the original CALs. These improve upon everything the CAL's did right. They're not bad looking on top of it all, but they do come at a higher price tag.
> 
> *$145 - Audio Technica AD700X*
> 
> The AD700s were king for gaming a few years ago, and these are it's replacement. They're pretty similar to the AD700s in many respect, although improved in other areas. They're also black instead of purple, so that's a bonus. It all comes at a higher price tag though...a $52 higher price tag. The soundstage on this headphone is even larger than the HD558, but some believe the soundstage to be almost artificial/too large. Imaging and positioning make this a great headphone for gaming at the price, but the lack of bass make it's use beyond gaming not very appealing. Detail on the headphone is also good, like the HD558s.
> 
> *$150 - Beyerdynamic DT990*
> Often times you can find the Beyerdynamic DT990s at this price range. They are good for gaming with a large soundstage. They also provide you with very punchy (if slightly bloated) bass. So it's a very fun headphone. It requires amplification, but hard to beat this headphone if you're looking for a gaming headphone with bass.
> 
> *$220 - Audio Technica AD900X and AKG Q701*
> The Audio Technica's build on the AD700Xs and improve them in almost everyway, most noticeably bass and an even larger soundstage. Detail is slightly improved, but not by much. If you're looking for a closed back version or a version with even more bass, the A900X's are your best bet. The best part of the AD900X's are that they do not require an amplifier.
> 
> The AKG Q701s are highly recommended though. They deliver an amazing soundstage, excellent detail, they're musical...but they need to be amped. Make sure to pick up a Magni at the very least, although they will run off a soundcard if you need to, just not well. They unfortunately lack the bass to really enjoy these headphones on a large list of genres, but many can make due because that's how awesome this headphone is.
> 
> Now that we've wrapped up the gaming headphones, let's move onto music.
> 
> There are some brands that are specially designed towards a certain genre of music. Let's get these out of the way first because these headphones are more extreme than others and I like to recommend headphones that are generally good at everything, but not everyone wants a headphone that is good at everything, just really good at one thing. These brands are Grado, which is great for rock music and Ultrasone which really shine for electronic music and stuff with a lot of bass.
> 
> *Rock*
> 
> Entry level wise the *SR80i* is an excellent choice followed by the *Allesandro MS1* which is basically a Grado, but made by another company. If you want to move higher up the chain, the *SR225i*'s are an excellent choice. Beyond that check out the *RS-1s* or *Allesandro* *MS2s*. The higher up Grados are very interesting, but also very expensive and you really have to love the Grado sound to spend into those.
> 
> *Electronica/Bassy*
> 
> *Sony MDR-XB500, 700s, 1000s.*
> 
> Bass, bass, bass. Personally not a fan of the XB Series. They feel like marshmallows or pillows on my head and the bass is not something I enjoy, but many bass lovers adore these. I suggest you audition them before purchasing.
> 
> *Ultrasone 580, Pro 550, 650, 750, 2400 and Pro 900* are all good headphones to look into. Each is a little different from one another, and some just build up on a previous version. The 80s and 50s (after the initial number) signify different versions which have a different signature. I personally prefer the 50 series over the 80 series. Either way you either love or hate Ultrasone. They're very V shaped.
> 
> Now that I've taken care of the extremes, let's go by pricing from here on and I'll mention a few, not all, but a few great headphones are many price levels.
> 
> *$50 - Samson SR850*
> Bassy, good soundstage, good detail for its price, doesn't require amplification, a bit uncomfortable.
> 
> *$74 - Creative Aurvana Live!*
> 
> Great all around headphone that's comfortable and priced well that doesn't require amplification. Excellent for gaming.
> 
> *$75 - Fostex T50RP*
> 
> These are a very inexpensive planar magnetic headphones. They provide excellent sound quality that rivals headphones beyond double it's price. They're not great for gaming, but they're an all around headphone. Downside is they really should be amped.
> 
> *$165 Beyerdynamic DT770/DT990*
> These headphones are bassy and bassy in different ways. The DT770 focuses on sub bass while the DT990s focus on mid bass. The DT990s are open/semi-open while the DT770s are closed. Both present harsh highs that some cannot get used to, but both are excellent headphones at a great price.
> 
> *$220 - Beydynamic DT880 600 ohm*
> 
> These are excellent headphones that do a bit of everything, but don't excel at anything in particular. Many see them as better than both the DT770 and 990, although they don't have the bass the others do. They have an OK soundstage. I wouldn't use them for gaming personally, but you could get away with it if you needed to. They provide you with excellent detail and amazingly sharp and crisp highs that really let you enjoy drums. It's almost a bit too much at times though admittedly, and some may not get used to the highs, especially at high volumes. These absolutely require amplification.
> 
> *$250 - HiFiMAN HE-300*
> The HE-300 are HiFiMAN's entry level headphone (which are actually Mid-Fi). They're priced very well, but use the dynamic driver instead of HiFiMAN's planar tech.
> 
> *$300 - HiFiMAN HE-400*
> 
> Available for a limited time the HE-400s are currently on sale for $300 while usually having been $400. They use HiFiMAN's planar magnetic technology which allows them to be open sounding headphones with nice bass. These are excellent value, but require amplification. They also are a bit harsh in the highs, but you can live with them with some EQing. Reason they're so cheap is that they're being phased out for a newer lighter version.
> 
> *$400 - Sennheiser HD600*
> This is an excellent headphone that's neutral sounding and very good for certain genres like classical and jazz. Not my cup of tea personally, but many audiophiles praise this headphone.
> 
> *$450 - Sennheiser HD650*
> 
> The HD650 is more my cup of tea. A darker sounding headphone with good bass, very airy sounding and great vocals with the highs rolled off. These sound fantastic with an OTL tube amplifier. Try to get a more recent version, as they fix the cracking issues and most of the "veiled" complaints the previous versions suffered from.
> 
> *$600 - HiFiMAN HE-500*
> This is where world class headphones begin. These are among the best headphones on the market. The HE-500 does a little of everything right. See my review for more. It's the next step above the HE-400. Largest difference is that it kills the annoying highs the HE-400s presented. Vocals were also superior on the HE-500s. These seem to have more subbass than the HE-400s but the HE-400s had more mid bass.
> 
> *$1200+ - Audeze LCD-2, Sennheiser HD800, HiFiMAN HE-6*
> 
> Flagship headphones for almost all these brands. Audeze has the LCD-3 now and Sennheiser does have some electrostatic headphones, but these are the main 3 in this price range. The HD800s are mostly known for their very revealing, detailed nature and wide soundstage. The LCD-2s are known for their bass, their vocal lushness and rolled off highs. The HE-6s are excellent at everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Simca, that's really wonderful, but what microphones would I be using with my headphone if you insist they're better than a headset?
> 
> Well, lucky for you I have several mics of different audio quality caliber that I can recommend you. Here are some at different price points. Almost unilaterally the higher the pricepoint, the better the mic.
> 
> *$9 Zalman Clip on Mic*
> This is about the lowest you can go as far as mics are concerned. They pick up a lot of background noise and are generally not the best, but they do strap onto your headphone cable or shirt for ease of use. It's $9 making it it's largest selling point.
> 
> *$12-23 - Logitech Labtec Desktop Mic 600*
> This has better sound quality than the Zalman. Depending on the volume level you set the mic to it can pick up a lot of background noise or a lot less. I suggest you use ~60% volume on this mic and it should do rather well. Downside is it's on your desk, not as cool and if you play far from your desk, not helpful at all.
> 
> *$32 - Samson Go Mic*
> 
> It's small, it's kind of odd really, but it is really a huge step above the other two options below it. Your voice will come across clearly, and it'll block out a decent amount of background noise.
> 
> *$40 - AntLion Mod Mic*
> This is the mic most headset gamers dream of. They'll turn your headphones into a headset. They clip on the side of your ear cups through some sticky mechanism so that it won't damage your headphones. Mic quality isn't the best and is outdone by cheaper, solutions, but you're paying for what it is, the convenience and coolness aspect, though each release makes the SQ better.
> 
> *$50 - Audio Technica ATR2500*
> This is where you begin to step into the podcasting and more professional mic area. At $50 the Audio Technica ATR2500 presents serious value for the money. You'll kill off a ton of background noise, come across rather clearly if slightly stuff sounding (I call it podcast sounding).
> 
> *$80 - Samson C01U*
> At this pricepoint, the Samson C01U provides improved performance over the ATR2500, a different look and a different color.
> 
> *$86 - AKG D5*
> The AKG D5 provides excellent voice clarity. This is really a mic that focuses on singing and vocals.
> 
> *$92 - Blue Yeti*
> 
> This is one of the best mics you can get under $100. It has many recording settings allowing you to change basically the sensitivity and how the mic records. It is the clearest mic under $100, but also pics up slightly more background noise than it's top competitor. Still, if you're in a quiet environment and want absolutely crystal clear mic pick up, this is your best bet. Downside, it's silver, and IT'S ENORMOUS. Honestly, it's like a massive toy girls use to enjoy themselves privately. Or guys..guys could use it too. Not judging.
> 
> *$98 - Audio Technica AT2020*
> The Audio Technica AT2020 is primarily a podcast microphone that does an amazing job at destroying background noise. You really won't hear background noise on this thing. The only downside is that it's a bit congested sounding which as I mentioned earlier is podcast sounding. Other than that's it's a pretty mic, black and heavy duty. It's also not ginormous like the Yeti.
> 
> After you've selected your mic there are just 3 more things you should consider:
> 
> *A pop filter* - This helps stop the P sounds from creating a puff sound on your mic.
> *A shock mount* - this prevents any shaking that may be occurring from vibrations of your desk from messing up the quality of your mic. Some swear by this more than others.
> *A mic stand* - While typically most of the mics come with some kind of cheap stand, you can really improve on that design to ensure your expensive mic doesn't fall over or simply being able to move the mic away when you're not using it. Mic stands can range in price and practicality. Some are arms that connect to your desk so they hang in front of you in use , and some are just on your desktop and don't move at all.





look like 2014?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*


Actually it does


----------



## pez

Was going to say it's very obvious it's at least up-to-date sometime from 2014.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Was going to say it's very obvious it's at least up-to-date sometime from 2014.


If FreeElectron had actually read, he would have figured it out.


----------



## FreeElectron

The topic had several sections
The section that i meant was the headphone and headset section
It was created at original date but there is no "Edited" in it.
So, if i actually did miss something then please enlighten me while also pointing at it exactly.
Thank you......


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> If FreeElectron had actually read, he would have figured it out.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The topic had several sections
> The section that i meant was the headphone and headset section
> It was created at original date but there is no "Edited" in it.
> So, if i actually did miss something then please enlighten me while also pointing at it exactly.
> Thank you......


Well I was going based off of some of the suggestions coming out after 2011







. However, it's ok. I forgive you







.


----------



## ThornTwist

If its not reasonably updated from time to time (I understand audio tech doesn't move at the same clip as some other PC related technologies) I would be a little peeved. I am going for an almost completly next gen system and I would want sound to be included for that. That being said, I bought a decent amount of starting range audio equipment that has largely been taken from this guide and it is a huge improvement from my Logitech z506 5.1 surround sound speaker system. I understand there is a lot of testing and otherwise knowledge of audio equipment that goes into making a thread like this so it is understandable that updating this info requires time. I guess I will just close with saying I would have a vastly different audio set up if it wasn't or this guide and I believe it would be a difference for the lesser of what I would get if I were to spend the same amount of money using my own knowledge base and research I would have put into it. I have a much better audio system because of this guide. I have already previously given REP to the maker of this guide in the OP.


----------



## Loonies

Hello guys.

Well i'm asking everybody here to recommend me a new headphones
Well i'm curently using sennheiser hd 205 almost/over 2 years now, have cut cable twice or so because some problem







.

because now my money very tight so i'm asking whats good option here can i get from i will choose when mainly brand is superlux

- Superlux HD 681
- Superlux HD 681B
- Superlux HD 688B (over my budget)
- Superlux HD 330 (over budget)

Well, can i get recommendation?
Btw my preferable one are

- Closed ear
- Sound same/little less or upgreded with my last headphone
- Spiral cabel (i'm using a heavy duty here, last one got strangle over time so i must straight the cabel again)
- If could, with deatachable cabel too?
- Little bit build like tank if possible to. (using almost 4 hour to 8 hour a day







)

My use for this mainly for movies, gaming, little music.

Btw why i say over budget for 30$ headphone? well in here it almost up by twice the price.

And if you gone to recommend me another one, i will check availability first in my area(country), coz i will not buy from outside country (lets say tax here is troubling)

Thank you.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Well I was going based off of some of the suggestions coming out after 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . However, it's ok. I forgive you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


The important thing is if that section can still be used or not.
I am thinking of going crazy and getting one of dem high end headphones ($1200 range) but i don't want to buy something and then realize that it is outdated


----------



## dpoverlord

Beware though the Creative Omni does not allow you to change the Balance of your speakers


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loonies*
> 
> Hello guys.
> 
> Well i'm asking everybody here to recommend me a new headphones
> Well i'm curently using sennheiser hd 205 almost/over 2 years now, have cut cable twice or so because some problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> because now my money very tight so i'm asking whats good option here can i get from i will choose when mainly brand is superlux
> 
> - Superlux HD 681
> - Superlux HD 681B
> - Superlux HD 688B (over my budget)
> - Superlux HD 330 (over budget)
> 
> Well, can i get recommendation?
> Btw my preferable one are
> 
> - Closed ear
> - Sound same/little less or upgreded with my last headphone
> - Spiral cabel (i'm using a heavy duty here, last one got strangle over time so i must straight the cabel again)
> - If could, with deatachable cabel too?
> - Little bit build like tank if possible to. (using almost 4 hour to 8 hour a day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> My use for this mainly for movies, gaming, little music.
> 
> Btw why i say over budget for 30$ headphone? well in here it almost up by twice the price.
> 
> And if you gone to recommend me another one, i will check availability first in my area(country), coz i will not buy from outside country (lets say tax here is troubling)
> 
> Thank you.


I guess the Superlux HD662/f/b and HD660 are over the budget too... Those would pretty much cover all the preferences except the detachable cable.


----------



## Systemlord

I have exceptional hearing because I have never in my life used headphones of any type.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The important thing is if that section can still be used or not.
> I am thinking of going crazy and getting one of dem high end headphones ($1200 range) but i don't want to buy something and then realize that it is outdated


Well like before, audio doesn't tank in performance over time. Not how games just progressively get more demanding, and GPU's continuously come out to make up for that.

The HD580, 600, and 650 are old now, but still remain competitive in the headphone world. Sometimes newer models aren't always better. Take Denon's new lineup as an example. The D2k, D5k, and D7k were very well received cans, but the newer ones fall short of even those. If you're unsure about what's on your plate, ask us here. Someone is bound to know the answer







; or at least help you out in some way.


----------



## Loonies

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> I guess the Superlux HD662/f/b and HD660 are over the budget too... Those would pretty much cover all the preferences except the detachable cable.


well if i will say something, there is something diffrent here
Lets say currency 1$ = Rp.10.000

HD 662/F/B = 27$
HD 681B = 49$
HD 681 EVO = whopping 75$ (rare)
HD 688B = 65$
HD 660 = 59$
HD 440 = 49$
HD 330 = 61$

This was the price now, before shipping


----------



## Bucake

hi guys,

today i'll be visiting someone who wants to sell his *HD800*,
but he just e-mailed me saying that he is *missing the box, including papers*.
the pictures show no signs of wear/damage.

so, in case everything works and the headphones themselves are in good condition:
what do you think would be a fair price for these phones? (or: what would be the maximum you would pay for a _HD800 without box or papers_?)


----------



## Loonies

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> hi guys,
> 
> today i'll be visiting someone who wants to sell his *HD800*,
> but he just e-mailed me saying that he is *missing the box, including papers*.
> the pictures show no signs of wear/damage.
> 
> so, in case everything works and the headphones themselves are in good condition:
> what do you think would be a fair price for these phones? (or: what would be the maximum you would pay for a _HD800 without box or papers_?)


fair condition?

well from my exp you must little bit asking him
1. how far frequen he using it.
2. ask any minus about body.
3. when he buy it.
4. why he sell it.
5. And if you can test it, that will be much better.
6. Acc when it came with package.

usually can get around 60% (bad) to 90% (new or perfect) but let says plus 5% or not because there is missing box and papers after all.

this just my 2cent







other may be added


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Well like before, audio doesn't tank in performance over time. Not how games just progressively get more demanding, and GPU's continuously come out to make up for that.
> 
> The HD580, 600, and 650 are old now, but still remain competitive in the headphone world. Sometimes newer models aren't always better. Take Denon's new lineup as an example. The D2k, D5k, and D7k were very well received cans, but the newer ones fall short of even those. If you're unsure about what's on your plate, ask us here. Someone is bound to know the answer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ; or at least help you out in some way.


ok
What are the good planar magnetic ones?
And is the Sennheiser HD800 a planar or not?

Is it true that planar magnetic always better than the dynamic?

Also, Is this a good website?
innerfidelity.com - Comparing World-Class Headphones Conclusions


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> ok
> What are the good planar magnetic ones?
> And is the Sennheiser HD800 a planar or not?
> 
> Is it true that planar magnetic always better than the dynamic?
> 
> Also, Is this a good website?
> innerfidelity.com - Comparing World-Class Headphones Conclusions


I went to a headphone meet this past summer and had the chance to try out a few different, and popular sets of Planars. The HE400 and 500 were there along with the LCD 2 and 3. Now I personally favor my HD650, but of those that I tried, they sounded good, just not my taste. That preference is really one that only you can decide, though I think it's consistent that planars produce better bass overall than _most_ dynamics. The HD800 is a dynamic set. Also, a few people keep up with innerfidelity, but it's been a while since I've kept up with headphone-specific forums/sites. I used to visit Head-fi quite a bit, but the community grew tiresome. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions in the sister thread, here.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I went to a headphone meet this past summer and had the chance to try out a few different, and popular sets of Planars. The HE400 and 500 were there along with the LCD 2 and 3. Now I personally favor my HD650, but of those that I tried, they sounded good, just not my taste. That preference is really one that only you can decide, though I think it's consistent that planars produce better bass overall than _most_ dynamics. The HD800 is a dynamic set. Also, a few people keep up with innerfidelity, but it's been a while since I've kept up with headphone-specific forums/sites. I used to visit Head-fi quite a bit, but the community grew tiresome. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions in the sister thread, here.


after reading a review on the HD800 where they say that the treble isn't good. I am reconsidering.

What do you think if i buy two headphones. one should be specific for gaming (stage or true surround) and one specific for the sound quality.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> ok
> What are the good planar magnetic ones?
> And is the Sennheiser HD800 a planar or not?
> 
> Is it true that planar magnetic always better than the dynamic?
> 
> Also, Is this a good website?
> innerfidelity.com - Comparing World-Class Headphones Conclusions


Audeze and HiFiMan have the most popular planars today, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look at others. The HD 800 is dynamic like pez said. Planar isn't always better, it's purely subjective. The Sennheiser HD 800 is more popular than both the Audeze LCD-3 and HiFiMan HE-6 I believe.

Innerfidelity is very thorough but remember that reviews are mostly subjective and your ears will perceive things differently than his. For example I never found the HE-6's treble to be distracting like he did, I find the HE-6 to be one of the most neutral headphones. But I did hear the HE-6 on a different system than he did.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> after reading a review on the HD800 where they say that the treble isn't good. I am reconsidering.
> 
> What do you think if i buy two headphones. one should be specific for gaming (stage or true surround) and one specific for the sound quality.


A subjective statement, I don't recommend basing your purchasing decision off of something so subjective and vague. The HD 800's treble is very detailed but can be a bit too potent for some, but this is VERY dependent on the amplifier used. The HD 800 is a very transparent headphone that responds drastically to amplifier changes. I heard the HD 800 on two amps. With that being said I am convinced that the HD 800 is just a bright, upward tilted headphone and not perfectly neutral (but it is overall quite neutral).

Buying two headphones like that is only worthwhile if your favorite headphone for music ends up being a closed headphone with almost no sound stage, like the Fostex TH900. But if you end up preferring something like the HD 800, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, don't bother. "True surround" headsets are a gimmick. The best gaming headphones need an expansive sound stage, and many would prefer strong bass too. Most open headphones, well respected ones that is, provide an expansive sound stage and the ones mentioned here provide more than adequate bass (especially the planars).

A sound card or even the free Razer surround can improve gaming performance much more than a surround headset would.


----------



## thobel

I just ordered Mr Speakers Alpha Dog Prime's to replace my Beyerdynamic MMX 300's connected to Beyerdynamic Headzone Base Station H 1.
I'm not much of an Audio guy buy I have a friend who points me in the right directrion. I was wondering if the Headzone Base Station will power the Alpha Dogs fine?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thobel*
> 
> I just ordered Mr Speakers Alpha Dog Prime's to replace my Beyerdynamic MMX 300's connected to Beyerdynamic Headzone Base Station H 1.
> I'm not much of an Audio guy buy I have a friend who points me in the right directrion. I was wondering if the Headzone Base Station will power the Alpha Dogs fine?


Going purely by the specs, yes. I wonder how those headphones compare with others in the $1K range.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loonies*
> 
> fair condition?
> 
> well from my exp you must little bit asking him
> 1. how far frequen he using it.
> 2. ask any minus about body.
> 3. when he buy it.
> 4. why he sell it.
> 5. And if you can test it, that will be much better.
> 6. Acc when it came with package.
> 
> usually can get around 60% (bad) to 90% (new or perfect) but let says plus 5% or not because there is missing box and papers after all.
> 
> this just my 2cent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> other may be added


thanks alot for your reply, Loonies









i've bought the headphones! there are a bunch of small scratches on the exterior but, other than that, they still work flawlessly.


----------



## killer121

I have accidentally broken by AD700 , and i am planning to get a replacement, since Audio Techinica have update their AD lineup, I have been looking into the newer ones.
But with the update they increases the price while releasing a lower end variant- the AD500x, confusing enough with a lower end specification.

Since i plane on spending about the same money, how is the AD500x compares to the AD700x?
And would I be better off finding another pair of AD700?

Surprised that the AD500x isn't listed in the recommend list, since it is more budget orientated.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killer121*
> 
> I have accidentally broken by AD700 , and i am planning to get a replacement, since Audio Techinica have update their AD lineup, I have been looking into the newer ones.
> But with the update they increases the price while releasing a lower end variant- the AD500x, confusing enough with a lower end specification.
> 
> Since i plane on spending about the same money, how is the AD500x compares to the AD700x?
> And would I be better off finding another pair of AD700?
> 
> Surprised that the AD500x isn't listed in the recommend list, since it is more budget orientated.


1. How much did you spend on the AD700 as that defines your budget? $80?
2. What will you be using them for?
2a. If you will be using them for music, do you care about sound quality?
2b. If you do care about sound quality, what kind of music do you listen to?
3. AD700 were open headphones, so I assume you do not care about sound isolation. Is this correct?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So I got my splitters last week and just got my right angle connectors today







, having a problem tho when I plug the rights in the audio goes all screwy, I tried just the rights, one lot of rights, all the rights with the splitters but any setup its all screwy and either works one channel or just doesnt work at all :upset:,but the spliiters alone work fine (been running them for about a week)

Any ideas, bad adapters maybe?

Thanks


----------



## thobel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Going purely by the specs, yes. I wonder how those headphones compare with others in the $1K range.


I'm a noob at Audio but I would be happy to "test" whatever I can.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> after reading a review on the HD800 where they say that the treble isn't good. I am reconsidering.
> 
> What do you think if i buy two headphones. one should be specific for gaming (stage or true surround) and one specific for the sound quality.


I kinda found my all around headphone, and sold off my others, but there are plenty of us that have multiple pairs. If you have the money for that, then it might not be a thing for you







.

Also the HD 800 have an edgy treble, but I wouldn't say its not good. I bet on a bad setup its bad, lol.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I went to a headphone meet this past summer and had the chance to try out a few different, and popular sets of Planars. The HE400 and 500 were there along with the LCD 2 and 3. Now I personally favor my HD650, but of those that I tried, they sounded good, just not my taste. That preference is really one that only you can decide, though I think it's consistent that planars produce better bass overall than _most_ dynamics. The HD800 is a dynamic set. Also, a few people keep up with innerfidelity, but it's been a while since I've kept up with headphone-specific forums/sites. I used to visit Head-fi quite a bit, but the community grew tiresome. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions in the sister thread, here.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I kinda found my all around headphone, and sold off my others, but there are plenty of us that have multiple pairs. If you have the money for that, then it might not be a thing for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also the HD 800 have an edgy treble, but I wouldn't say its not good. I bet on a bad setup its bad, lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Audeze and HiFiMan have the most popular planars today, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look at others. The HD 800 is dynamic like pez said. Planar isn't always better, it's purely subjective. The Sennheiser HD 800 is more popular than both the Audeze LCD-3 and HiFiMan HE-6 I believe.
> 
> Innerfidelity is very thorough but remember that reviews are mostly subjective and your ears will perceive things differently than his. For example I never found the HE-6's treble to be distracting like he did, I find the HE-6 to be one of the most neutral headphones. But I did hear the HE-6 on a different system than he did.
> A subjective statement, I don't recommend basing your purchasing decision off of something so subjective and vague. The HD 800's treble is very detailed but can be a bit too potent for some, but this is VERY dependent on the amplifier used. The HD 800 is a very transparent headphone that responds drastically to amplifier changes. I heard the HD 800 on two amps. With that being said I am convinced that the HD 800 is just a bright, upward tilted headphone and not perfectly neutral (but it is overall quite neutral).
> 
> Buying two headphones like that is only worthwhile if your favorite headphone for music ends up being a closed headphone with almost no sound stage, like the Fostex TH900. But if you end up preferring something like the HD 800, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, don't bother. "True surround" headsets are a gimmick. The best gaming headphones need an expansive sound stage, and many would prefer strong bass too. Most open headphones, well respected ones that is, provide an expansive sound stage and the ones mentioned here provide more than adequate bass (especially the planars).
> 
> A sound card or even the free Razer surround can improve gaming performance much more than a surround headset would.


ok
So ditch true surround and get a good setup.

But still i need to compare

Headphone Data Sheet Downloads
Is this considered a good start to decide on headphones?


----------



## killer121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> 1. How much did you spend on the AD700 as that defines your budget? $80?
> 2. What will you be using them for?
> 2a. If you will be using them for music, do you care about sound quality?
> 2b. If you do care about sound quality, what kind of music do you listen to?
> 3. AD700 were open headphones, so I assume you do not care about sound isolation. Is this correct?


1. i got mines for around $110, i don't mind spending a bit more for it, if the AD700x provide more value i am happy to pay up
2. I mainly use it for gaming and films, and some music, but I don't need the bass, I have been happy with by AD700
2a. If it provide good vocals, Bass is not the issue
3. Yes, I am happy with an open headphone, with leaking / isolation etc

Reading that the higher end of the ADs you go the less value it provide, I wonder does the AD700x worth the premium they add to the new price.

Thanks


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killer121*
> 
> 1. i got mines for around $110, i don't mind spending a bit more for it, if the AD700x provide more value i am happy to pay up
> 2. I mainly use it for gaming and films, and some music, but I don't need the bass, I have been happy with by AD700
> 2a. If it provide good vocals, Bass is not the issue
> 3. Yes, I am happy with an open headphone, with leaking / isolation etc
> 
> Reading that the higher end of the ADs you go the less value it provide, I wonder does the AD700x worth the premium they add to the new price.
> 
> Thanks


i haven't heard the new iteration of the AD700, but at $110-120 range, I personally liked the HD558 that my friend recently got. I know a lot of people really like them too.

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1416933449&sr=1-1&keywords=558


----------



## Bucake

hi guys,

i'm considering getting the o2+odac combo here,
and it allows customising the gain settings (1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x, 7x, 8.5x, 10x and 12x).

what settings would you guys suggest, if using a pair of 300 ohm headphones?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> ok
> So ditch true surround and get a good setup.
> 
> But still i need to compare
> 
> Headphone Data Sheet Downloads
> Is this considered a good start to decide on headphones?


From what I can tell it's a link to different headphones? I'm on my phone and didn't really click a bunch, though.

So what kinda music do you listen to? Will you be gaming a lot? And if so, how much? What is your price range? And how important are things like bass, soundstage, mids and treble to you?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> From what I can tell it's a link to different headphones? I'm on my phone and didn't really click a bunch, though.
> 
> So what kinda music do you listen to? Will you be gaming a lot? And if so, how much? What is your price range? And how important are things like bass, soundstage, mids and treble to you?


I rarely listen to music and i do game alot.
But i want to be able to hear sounds accurately (positional accuracy included) when i listen to music, game or watch a movie.

Also download this
The methodology is explained here. (I didn't really understand it)


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> ok
> So ditch true surround and get a good setup.
> 
> But still i need to compare
> 
> Headphone Data Sheet Downloads
> Is this considered a good start to decide on headphones?


Well that will give you a vague idea on what a headphone's sound signature is like (the frequency response graphs) so that is useful. Reading Innerfidelity's reviews is also a good idea as long as you remember that most of the listening impressions are subjective.

Since your headphone choice is based primarily around gaming, you don't have to think this deep and you should really get an open headphone with a big sound stage. The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is just that, it doesn't get much better for gaming. Or if you want heavier bass, check out the Philips Fidelio X2. Regardless of your headphone choice, Razer Surround may improve your positional awareness in games - it's free and definitely worth trying.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Well that will give you a vague idea on what a headphone's sound signature is like (the frequency response graphs) so that is useful. Reading Innerfidelity's reviews is also a good idea as long as you remember that most of the listening impressions are subjective.
> 
> Since your headphone choice is based primarily around gaming, you don't have to think this deep and you should really get an open headphone with a big sound stage. The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is just that, it doesn't get much better for gaming. Or if you want heavier bass, check out the Philips Fidelio X2. Regardless of your headphone choice, Razer Surround may improve your positional awareness in games - it's free and definitely worth trying.


Yep, these are the normal great suggestions right here







.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Well that will give you a vague idea on what a headphone's sound signature is like (the frequency response graphs) so that is useful. Reading Innerfidelity's reviews is also a good idea as long as you remember that most of the listening impressions are subjective.
> 
> Since your headphone choice is based primarily around gaming, you don't have to think this deep and you should really get an open headphone with a big sound stage. The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is just that, it doesn't get much better for gaming. Or if you want heavier bass, check out the Philips Fidelio X2. Regardless of your headphone choice, Razer Surround may improve your positional awareness in games - it's free and definitely worth trying.


I think i should use a sound card to avoid processing the sound through the CPU.
And i want the headphone to be good for games and other stuff also.
Now if opinions on headphones are subjective then how can i get objective opinions then?
The closest i could get to non subjective were the graphs and compare them to the ideal graph, is there another way or a better way?


----------



## FreeElectron

Also, What do you think about the Creative Sound Blaster X7?

It does have a processor and supports SBX Pro.
Will it be good/better than the Creative Sound Blaster Z/ZX/ZXR ?
Especially that it will save space on the PCIE slots in the motherboard.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Also, What do you think about the Creative Sound Blaster X7?
> 
> It does have a processor and supports SBX Pro.
> Will it be good/better than the Creative Sound Blaster Z/ZX/ZXR ?
> Especially that it will save space on the PCIE slots in the motherboard.


Not worth it if you are not going to use the speaker amplifier. Sound Blaster Omni would be better option at that point... But a real DAC+amp would still be much better.

As for the CPU usage... That thing haven't been an issue since the release of Windows Vista. Hardware acceleration simply died when Microsoft removed its support from the OS.
Sure you can do the DSP effects outside the CPU but that's just silly when all the original sound processing is already handled by the CPU.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Not worth it if you are not going to use the speaker amplifier. Sound Blaster Omni would be better option at that point... But a real DAC+amp would still be much better.
> 
> As for the CPU usage... That thing haven't been an issue since the release of Windows Vista. Hardware acceleration simply died when Microsoft removed its support from the OS.
> Sure you can do the DSP effects outside the CPU but that's just silly when all the original sound processing is already handled by the CPU.


I could not find that the Omni has any internal CPU in the features page.

Could you please further explain about processing.
Why was it a problem in the first place?
If hardware acceleration died then how is it done if someone already got a an internal processor in his sound card?

Also How do i choose a DAC and an AMP? As much as i appreciate people's advising me to buy one product or another but, i would appreciate it more if i am told why should i favor a certain product over another.


----------



## pez

The only time a sound problem is created on the side of the CPU is when you're dealing with the rare case of a faulty CPU, or just a terrible motherboard layout/implementation. But both of those situations are too rare.

CPUs in this day and age use such little processing power for audio, that using it with or without the CPU creates such a negligible difference that you could recreate the same differences between a multiple test runs.

You could get a Creative sound card (I'm not sure which modern Creative cards are the best value) and that way you'd have a somewhat decent DAC with baked-in software options to tweak your sound for gaming even further.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> The only time a sound problem is created on the side of the CPU is when you're dealing with the rare case of a faulty CPU, or just a terrible motherboard layout/implementation. But both of those situations are too rare.
> 
> CPUs in this day and age use such little processing power for audio, that using it with or without the CPU creates such a negligible difference that you could recreate the same differences between a multiple test runs.
> 
> You could get a Creative sound card (I'm not sure which modern Creative cards are the best value) and that way you'd have a somewhat decent DAC with baked-in software options to tweak your sound for gaming even further.


Are there any topics discussing this particular subject that you can refer me to?
Also how would i choose between amps and dacs?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Are there any topics discussing this particular subject that you can refer me to?
> Also how would i choose between amps and dacs?


Kinda quickly found this, but here's kinda the same idea: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2150316

And really choosing between amps and DACs is a matter of finding your budget, then seeing your options and seeing what impressions, reviews, and even personal listening gives of them.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Kinda quickly found this, but here's kinda the same idea: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2150316
> 
> And really choosing between amps and DACs is a matter of finding your budget, then seeing your options and seeing what impressions, reviews, and even personal listening gives of them.


I am not sure on the budget, but i hope not to get over 2k for headphones + DAC+AMP/SoundCard + Microphone (max $100)

But still how would i rate them?
What are the specifications that i should look for.

Also what do you think about the Audeze LCD-2 and the Audeze LCD-X ?


----------



## boredgunner

Like Tiihokatti said there is no more sound card acceleration thanks to Creative and Windows. I think OpenAL games may still support it, but you'd need an X-Fi sound card and all of them are discontinued.

Audeze headphones are super duper ultra mega extreme overkill for gaming. They aren't even the best for gaming actually, they don't have enormous sound stages. The AD700X might actually be better for gaming lol.

But for music listening in general, Audeze makes outstanding headphones. The LCD-X is somewhat neutral though I find it to be somewhat bright, and I just didn't like its tonality for some reason. The LCD-3 has some of the best bass ever, a warm relaxed mid-range, and subdued treble. The LCD-2 is supposed to be just a lesser version of the LCD-3.

So I would go with one of the following for a gaming headphone setup:

1) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Audio Technica ATH-AD700X, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.

2) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp or Little Dot 1+, AKG Q701, K701, K702, or K7xx on Massdrop, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.

3) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp, Philips Fidelio X2, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.

Option 3 will give you by far the most bass.

The reason I choose the X-Fi Titanium HD is for the games that will actually take advantage of its 3D processing, which newer Creative sound cards don't have (any OpenAL game, and many pre-Vista PC exclusives). Its virtual surround might be worse than SBX Surround, but I think virtual surround is overrated anyway.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Like Tiihokatti said there is no more sound card acceleration thanks to Creative and Windows. I think OpenAL games may still support it, but you'd need an X-Fi sound card and all of them are discontinued.
> 
> Audeze headphones are super duper ultra mega extreme overkill for gaming. They aren't even the best for gaming actually, they don't have enormous sound stages. The AD700X might actually be better for gaming lol.
> 
> But for music listening in general, Audeze makes outstanding headphones. The LCD-X is somewhat neutral though I find it to be somewhat bright, and I just didn't like its tonality for some reason. The LCD-3 has some of the best bass ever, a warm relaxed mid-range, and subdued treble. The LCD-2 is supposed to be just a lesser version of the LCD-3.
> 
> So I would go with one of the following for a gaming headphone setup:
> 
> 1) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Audio Technica ATH-AD700X, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> 2) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp or Little Dot 1+, AKG Q701, K701, K702, or K7xx on Massdrop, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> 3) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp, Philips Fidelio X2, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> Option 3 will give you by far the most bass.
> 
> The reason I choose the X-Fi Titanium HD is for the games that will actually take advantage of its 3D processing, which newer Creative sound cards don't have (any OpenAL game, and many pre-Vista PC exclusives). Its virtual surround might be worse than SBX Surround, but I think virtual surround is overrated anyway.


Just wanted to add:

For cheaper alternative, Choose #1. Also, if you wanted #2 or #3 you can skip the Schiit Magni or O2 amp and save some $ and the sound will still be alright unless you are super into Music or an Audiophile.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Like Tiihokatti said there is no more sound card acceleration thanks to Creative and Windows. I think OpenAL games may still support it, but you'd need an X-Fi sound card and all of them are discontinued.
> 
> Audeze headphones are super duper ultra mega extreme overkill for gaming. They aren't even the best for gaming actually, they don't have enormous sound stages. The AD700X might actually be better for gaming lol.
> 
> But for music listening in general, Audeze makes outstanding headphones. The LCD-X is somewhat neutral though I find it to be somewhat bright, and I just didn't like its tonality for some reason. The LCD-3 has some of the best bass ever, a warm relaxed mid-range, and subdued treble. The LCD-2 is supposed to be just a lesser version of the LCD-3.
> 
> So I would go with one of the following for a gaming headphone setup:
> 
> 1) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Audio Technica ATH-AD700X, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> 2) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp or Little Dot 1+, AKG Q701, K701, K702, or K7xx on Massdrop, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> 3) Used Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni or Objective2 amp, Philips Fidelio X2, and a microphone like the AntLion ModMic or a desktop mic.
> 
> Option 3 will give you by far the most bass.
> 
> *The reason I choose the X-Fi Titanium HD is for the games that will actually take advantage of its 3D processing, which newer Creative sound cards don't have (any OpenAL game, and many pre-Vista PC exclusives). Its virtual surround might be worse than SBX Surround, but I think virtual surround is overrated anyway.*


Please elaborate more on the last point.
What surround technologies are there?
How do they compare?
What devices support them?

As for AD700X..
I was initially planning on the AD900X but then considered the HD800 for better sound quality and finally considering the LCD-2 for the price and also based on the graphs.
To me i really don't understand words like "warm" and neutral.. all i see is text as i can't hear the difference.
So to make up my mind i depend on the graphs provided above .and comparing those graphs to the ideal graph is how i choose the LCD-2 as they are closest to ideal.

Regarding the amps, i still don't know based on what should i choose one.
I know there are recommendations and i will probably end up buying one of the recommended ones but, Why?


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Please elaborate more on the last point.
> What surround technologies are there?
> How do they compare?
> What devices support them?
> 
> As for AD700X..
> I was initially planning on the AD900X but then considered the HD800 for better sound quality and finally considering the LCD-2 for the price and also based on the graphs.
> To me i really don't understand words like "warm" and neutral.. all i see is text as i can't hear the difference.
> So to make up my mind i depend on the graphs provided above .and comparing those graphs to the ideal graph is how i choose the LCD-2 as they are closest to ideal.
> 
> Regarding the amps, i still don't know based on what should i choose one.
> I know there are recommendations and i will probably end up buying one of the recommended ones *but, Why?*


Just popping in real quick, if you're going to be dropping the money on anything in the realm of LCD-2s, HD800s, and TH-900s you may want to go to head-fi or something similar where there's a more supple amount of people that have experience with the cans.

I.E. some amps don't play nicely with the HD800 and more specifically the LCD-2 more so.

Last point, the part I bolded, that's a way too vague of a question that can be answered, many amps are recommended for many reasons. It's best to find one you like the look of in the specs and then crosscheck it with others that have used it in your hypothetical setup and go from there.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Please elaborate more on the last point.
> What surround technologies are there?
> How do they compare?
> What devices support them?
> 
> As for AD700X..
> I was initially planning on the AD900X but then considered the HD800 for better sound quality and finally considering the LCD-2 for the price and also based on the graphs.
> To me i really don't understand words like "warm" and neutral.. all i see is text as i can't hear the difference.
> So to make up my mind i depend on the graphs provided above .and comparing those graphs to the ideal graph is how i choose the LCD-2 as they are closest to ideal.
> 
> Regarding the amps, i still don't know based on what should i choose one.
> I know there are recommendations and i will probably end up buying one of the recommended ones but, Why?


OpenAL games can provide true 3D binaural sound, which is different and much better than virtual surround. DirectSound3D games did the same thing, but DirectSound no longer exists (but Creative ALchemy can convert such games to OpenAL). If you have any OpenAL games you can try without a sound card, by following these steps.

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1fzonq/psa_for_games_using_openal_including_minecraft/

So yeah there is that, and then there are different virtual surround technologies which all essentially do the same thing: downmix multichannel audio to stereo. SBX Surround, Dolby Headphone, Razer Surround, and X-Fi CMSS-3D are all virtual surround solutions. However X-Fi CMSS-3D is a strange beast and serves another function when using headphones or stereo/2.1 systems: when playing OpenAL games (or DirectSound3D games converted to OpenAL through Creative ALchemy), it instead uses hardware processing and OpenAL's features to provide 3D binaural sound which is much much better than virtual surround.

Creative X-Fi sound cards are the ones that give you 3D binaural sound, but only in OpenAL games. In order to determine if a game is OpenAL you can ask here, or go to its folder and see if there is an "OpenAL32.dll" file next to the game's executable.

Your headphone choices are all over the place. The HD 800, LCD-2, and LCD-X are not meant for gaming. Sure, they will do just fine for gaming, but hardly any better than the sub $150 AD700X. Unless you are a very passionate music listener, anything more than the headphones I recommended in post #4098 is a waste of money. You also won't need an amp with such headphones, except maybe the AKG's.

So you find the LCD-2 to be ideal from the graphs? Which means, you want a headphone with relaxed treble and elevated (but not absurd) bass, and also open with a good sound stage for gaming? Then go with the Philips Fidelio X2 which is all of those things judging by reviews, and a nice sound card and mic to go along with it. If you don't play any OpenAL games or ALchemy compatible games then don't even bother with the Titanium HD, and get a Sound Blaster Z instead.


----------



## chalkbluffgrown

boredgunner said "but DirectSound no longer exists,,,,,,,,,,,"

DirectSound stil exists, but it is no longer hardware accelerated. OpenAL is very good in comparison, but the last cards to perform OpenAL acceleration in hardware were the X-FI series up til the Titanium HD. Now OpenAL acceleration is performed in software only with Creative's newest sound cards including the Recon3D and Z series of sound cards.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chalkbluffgrown*
> 
> boredgunner said "but DirectSound no longer exists,,,,,,,,,,,"
> 
> DirectSound stil exists, but it is no longer hardware accelerated. OpenAL is very good in comparison, but the last cards to perform OpenAL acceleration in hardware were the X-FI series up til the Titanium HD. Now OpenAL acceleration is performed in software only with Creative's newest sound cards including the Recon3D and Z series of sound cards.


Yeah I meant to say there is no more DirectSound3D hardware acceleration, and hardware acceleration is just dead altogether now. With this combined with the release of Razer Surround, a sound card isn't even a necessity anymore. You could just get an amp/DAC combo instead and use Razer Surround.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> OpenAL games can provide true 3D binaural sound, which is different and much better than virtual surround. DirectSound3D games did the same thing, but DirectSound no longer exists (but Creative ALchemy can convert such games to OpenAL). If you have any OpenAL games you can try without a sound card, by following these steps.
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1fzonq/psa_for_games_using_openal_including_minecraft/
> 
> So yeah there is that, and then there are different virtual surround technologies which all essentially do the same thing: downmix multichannel audio to stereo. SBX Surround, Dolby Headphone, Razer Surround, and X-Fi CMSS-3D are all virtual surround solutions. However X-Fi CMSS-3D is a strange beast and serves another function when using headphones or stereo/2.1 systems: when playing OpenAL games (or DirectSound3D games converted to OpenAL through Creative ALchemy), it instead uses hardware processing and OpenAL's features to provide 3D binaural sound which is much much better than virtual surround.
> 
> Creative X-Fi sound cards are the ones that give you 3D binaural sound, but only in OpenAL games. In order to determine if a game is OpenAL you can ask here, or go to its folder and see if there is an "OpenAL32.dll" file next to the game's executable.
> 
> Your headphone choices are all over the place. The HD 800, LCD-2, and LCD-X are not meant for gaming. Sure, they will do just fine for gaming, but hardly any better than the sub $150 AD700X. Unless you are a very passionate music listener, anything more than the headphones I recommended in post #4098 is a waste of money. You also won't need an amp with such headphones, except maybe the AKG's.
> 
> So you find the LCD-2 to be ideal from the graphs? Which means, you want a headphone with *relaxed treble* and *elevated (but not absurd) bass*, and also open with a good sound stage for gaming? Then go with the Philips Fidelio X2 which is all of those things judging by reviews, and a nice sound card and mic to go along with it. If you don't play any OpenAL games or ALchemy compatible games then don't even bother with the Titanium HD, and get a Sound Blaster Z instead.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Audeze and HiFiMan have the most popular planars today, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look at others. The HD 800 is dynamic like pez said. Planar isn't always better, it's purely subjective. The Sennheiser HD 800 is more popular than both the Audeze LCD-3 and HiFiMan HE-6 I believe.
> 
> Innerfidelity is very thorough but remember that reviews are mostly *subjective* and your ears will perceive things differently than his. For example I never found the HE-6's treble to be distracting like he did, I find the HE-6 to be one of the most neutral headphones. But I did hear the HE-6 on a different system than he did.
> A *subjective statement*, I don't recommend basing your purchasing decision off of something so subjective and vague. The HD 800's treble is very detailed but can be a bit too potent for some, but this is VERY dependent on the amplifier used. The HD 800 is a very transparent headphone that responds drastically to amplifier changes. I heard the HD 800 on two amps. With that being said I am convinced that the HD 800 is just a bright, upward tilted headphone and not perfectly neutral (but it is overall quite neutral).
> 
> Buying two headphones like that is only worthwhile if your favorite headphone for music ends up being a closed headphone with almost no sound stage, like the Fostex TH900. But if you end up preferring something like the HD 800, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, don't bother. "True surround" headsets are a gimmick. The best gaming headphones need an expansive sound stage, and many would prefer strong bass too. Most open headphones, well respected ones that is, provide an expansive sound stage and the ones mentioned here provide more than adequate bass (especially the planars).
> 
> A sound card or even the free Razer surround can improve gaming performance much more than a surround headset would.


I used graphs for two reasons basically.
1- I can't understand the terms that are used to describe music.
2- I want to avoid subjective opinions.

And according to graphs. the mentioned Philips Fidelio X2 graph's does not look like the LCD-2s.

Now regarding the sound card.

I have 3 options

OpenAL and DirectSound3D (with ALchemy) supports hardware acceleration through Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
Other surround technologies (like SBX) supports hardware acceleration through Creative Sound Blaster Z Series? (or not?)
Or get a decent DAC and use Razer software which will also work with the other surround technologies.
Regarding the amp and dacs
I still don't know based on what should i choose one.

As far as budget goes i am planning $2000 max for the whole setup.
but i don't want to spend the money without knowing if it is going to pay off or not.

Finally, i know my questions are kind of annoying but, any help is greatly appreciated


----------



## boredgunner

About sound terminology:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary

SBX Surround is not hardware accelerated. Neither is Dolby Headphone, or any virtual surround technology. Only old games (released during Vista's reign and earlier, mostly PC exclusives) support hardware accelerated sound. This is why a sound card isn't a necessity anymore, since games don't use them.

Spending $2000 on a headphone setup just for gaming is not going to pay off. I think you should get a Philips Fidelio X2 and maybe a Schiit Modi and Magni, and use Razer Surround, just in case you end up listening to music more. But to save money you can omit the Modi and Magni and just get a Creative Sound Blaster Z instead, and ditch Razer Surround.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> About sound terminology:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
> 
> SBX Surround is not hardware accelerated. Neither is Dolby Headphone, or any virtual surround technology. Only old games (released during Vista's reign and earlier, mostly PC exclusives) support hardware accelerated sound. This is why a sound card isn't a necessity anymore, since games don't use them.
> 
> Spending $2000 on a headphone setup just for gaming is not going to pay off. I think you should get a Philips Fidelio X2 and maybe a Schiit Modi and Magni, and use Razer Surround, just in case you end up listening to music more. But to save money you can omit the Modi and Magni and just get a Creative Sound Blaster Z instead, and ditch Razer Surround.


I am sorry that i gave the wrong impression.
I said i listen to music rarely but that may change when one starts experiencing music in a different way than onboard sound.
I wanted something to be very good for all. (not just gaming)
If i wanted gaming i would have gone with the AKG Q701 (some say it has the best staging. even better than the AD900X if i am not wrong).

Any way i will read the link provided when i get time.
Finally
I still don't know how to choose between DACs and AMPs








But thanks for the help


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I am sorry that i gave the wrong impression.
> I said i listen to music rarely but that may change when one starts experiencing music in a different way than onboard sound.
> I wanted something to be very good for all. (not just gaming)
> If i wanted gaming i would have gone with the AKG Q701 (some say it has the best staging. even better than the AD900X if i am not wrong).
> 
> Any way i will read the link provided when i get time.
> Finally
> I still don't know how to choose between DACs and AMPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But thanks for the help


Amp choice should be based mostly in synergy with the headphone, so this will take auditioning and research (looking up reviews).

I think the Sennheiser HD 800 has the widest sound stage, and also the best imaging. If you go with the LCD-2, and don't want an amp or DAC that changes its sound, go with an amp and DAC that are said to be transparent. Check out the LCD-2 thread on Head-Fi.org for amp/DAC impressions. On a $2000 budget with the LCD-2 as a headphone, I'd probably choose the Audio GD NFB-28 with the TCXO upgrade, and get a balanced cable, but that's not based on hands on experience. The Woo Audio WA7 is a popular choice for the LCD-2 and there are a lot of upgrade options for it.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Amp choice should be based mostly in synergy with the headphone, so this will take auditioning and research (looking up reviews).
> 
> I think the Sennheiser HD 800 has the widest sound stage, and also the best imaging. If you go with the LCD-2, and don't want an amp or DAC that changes its sound, go with an amp and DAC that are said to be transparent. Check out the LCD-2 thread on Head-Fi.org for amp/DAC impressions. On a $2000 budget with the LCD-2 as a headphone, I'd probably choose the Audio GD NFB-28 with the TCXO upgrade, and get a balanced cable, but that's not based on hands on experience. The Woo Audio WA7 is a popular choice for the LCD-2 and there are a lot of upgrade options for it.


$2000 is max but less is better








The topic you linked is awesome and i will redo the search based on it.
Thanks for the link


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Klipsch R-15M Reference Bookshelfs are going for 125USD at BestBuy.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-reference-5-1-4-bookshelf-speakers-pair/6228109.p?id=1219198818817&skuId=6228109


----------



## MonarchX

Where on the list would you place Sennheiser HD-280 Pro headphones (64ohms)? Specs-wise they are better than Sennheier PC360, but they do not have a mic. They can also clamp your head, but there are ways around that. They cost some $100, but AFAIK are an excellent set of closed monitoring headphones, performing great in videogames when paired with a low-ohm soundcard like ASUS Xonar DGX.

For the OP, I would also advice mentioning UNi drivers for ASUS Xonar DG and DGX. They add another $40 worth of value on top of what DG and DGX cost!


----------



## Tripwyr

I'm looking for a microphone recommendation for gaming. I dislike boom mics for a number of reasons, and I value voice clarity quite highly. I purchased a Blue Snowball microphone on recommendation from a friend, but it has that same "stuffy" sound mentioned in the OP.

I ordered a ModMic, but I'd like a recommendation for a clear sounding desktop microphone in the hopes that I can use it instead of the ModMic.

EDIT: I should add that I am in Canada, which makes obtaining some items difficult. I'm able to get the AT2020 nearby for about $119, but the OP mentions that it is also stuffy.


----------



## ThornTwist

Hey I'm also in the market for a Mic or headset. Was wondering what you audiophiles would recommend.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Hey I'm also in the market for a Mic or headset. Was wondering what you audiophiles would recommend.


If you absolutely and must get a headset, I would go with the HyperX by Kingston.

Removable mics in order of cost: Zalman clip-on, Sony/Olympic clip on, V-moda boom mic pro, ModMic, and I think Beyerdynamic actually has their own aftermarket mic too.

Btw, BF deals are pretty slick at the moment...Senn 598s were going for $99 new from Amazon.

Worth checking out if you want something very, very comfortable and on the neutral side for gaming and positional cues, stuff like that.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Where on the list would you place Sennheiser HD-280 Pro headphones (64ohms)? Specs-wise they are better than Sennheier PC360, but they do not have a mic. They can also clamp your head, but there are ways around that. They cost some $100, but AFAIK are an excellent set of closed monitoring headphones, performing great in videogames when paired with a low-ohm soundcard like ASUS Xonar DGX.
> 
> For the OP, I would also advice mentioning UNi drivers for ASUS Xonar DG and DGX. They add another $40 worth of value on top of what DG and DGX cost!


They are a good set of cans for music, but fall behind for gaming. Not to mention, they aren't really great for long periods of wear; which isn't a good thing for headphones being used for gaming.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> They are a good set of cans for music, but fall behind for gaming. Not to mention, they aren't really great for long periods of wear; which isn't a good thing for headphones being used for gaming.


*I resolved head clamping completely*. It required me to apply high heat to plastic in the very middle of the head-band, while stretching and bending it inside-out (so-to-speak) for good 40 minutes and then letting it cool in that position for 12hrs. Plastic was slightly melted and I had to do that 3x to achieve a PERMANENT result. Now I get 0 clamping after many many MANY hours of gaming and when I am done, I still keep them stretched over cigar humidifier







. Now cans barely touch my head on the sides, just enough to isolate the external sound. I prefer closed monitoring headphones.

Aside from completely resolved clamping, what makes HD-280's bad for gaming? I use them with ASUS Xonar DGX, for which I install the latest UNi drivers and use accurate Dolby Headphone 7.1 Shifter Profile with DH-1 Studio setting to avoid any echo and/or reverberation effects. I originally had Creative X-Fi Titanium with Astro A50's which were priced @ $250. I sold X-Fi Titanium and Astro A50's to make & save some money by buying cheaper ASUS Xonar DGX with Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's, which sounded miles better than Astro A50's. Then I checked out the specs and realized that HD-280's (64ohms) had better specs and fit Xonar DGX (10ohms) impedance levels many times better than Astro A50's (48ohms) fit X-Fi Titanium impedance (22ohms). Astro A50's used Dolby Digital 5.1, but to downmix and re-create surround sound for 2 stereo cans, they also used Dolby Headphone, which was confirmed on Astro forums by a representative.

*If sound quality is the only consideration (ignore lack of microphone also), would you consider Astro A50's sound quality to be above Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's?* Maybe it was the terrible-fit impedance levels of X-Fi and Astro A50's that made that combination sound so damn worse than Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro's, but there is no way someone with good hearing would consider Astro A50's better for sound reproduction.


----------



## pez

I'm not sure about most, but I don't spend money on anything just to instantly modify it and potential break it







. Well some things I do, but headphones aren't that. Also, there are just better offerings out there for the purpose of 'soundstage' and positional audio that could probably eliminate a good portion of the necessity for the software that you use. I could be wrong. I'm not trying to attack you and get to upgrade or anything. If anything, I know what it's like to like something so much you could care if something else better exists







.


----------



## ThornTwist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aznlotus161*
> 
> If you absolutely and must get a headset, I would go with the HyperX by Kingston.
> 
> Removable mics in order of cost: Zalman clip-on, Sony/Olympic clip on, V-moda boom mic pro, ModMic, and I think Beyerdynamic actually has their own aftermarket mic too.
> 
> Btw, BF deals are pretty slick at the moment...Senn 598s were going for $99 new from Amazon.
> 
> Worth checking out if you want something very, very comfortable and on the neutral side for gaming and positional cues, stuff like that.


Thanks, REP. I'll check those out come tomorrow. I have been very busy lately.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm not sure about most, but I don't spend money on anything just to instantly modify it and potential break it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Well some things I do, but headphones aren't that. Also, there are just better offerings out there for the purpose of 'soundstage' and positional audio that could probably eliminate a good portion of the necessity for the software that you use. I could be wrong. I'm not trying to attack you and get to upgrade or anything. If anything, I know what it's like to like something so much you could care if something else better exists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


What do you mean? I use 1 single piece of software - UNi drivers (8MB installation). They do everything at lower latency than official drivers and include the improved 7.1 Shifter Profile, the latest versions of Dolby Headphone, OpenAL, and driver files in a single small package. Just FYI: there are several manufacturers that use the same exact chips as ASUS Xonar DGX, DX, etc. in their soundcards (like OMEGA) and each manufacturer has its own drivers of different file versions for the same exact chip. UNi drivers simply take the latest versions of the available driver files from each manufacturer and compile them into a single 8MB package without any compatibility issues. UNi = Unified! The result is the most up-to-date drivers files working in cohesion, providing the best performance, and the latest bug fixes that no manufacturer provided in a single package. They aren't some hacked drivers or like some of those Daniel K Sound Blaster driver compilations with odd changes. They are also of the smallest size and aren't anywhere near as bad as Creative drivers or at least as bad as Creative drivers used to be with their huge packages and numerous bugs.

With something like Sound Blaster Z, you actually have to install SBX Pro separately AFAIK and its positional audio (SBX Surround Sound) is coded on a much higher software level than ASUS Xonar's Dolby Headphone, which is coded on driver-level.

Please elaborate on what you were talking about. I know I spent $30 on ASUS Xonar DGX and $100 on Sennheiser HD-280 Pro. I know for a fact that HD-280's Pro have better specs than Astro A50's, which sounded worse and also produces mild crackling. They also were way off in terms of 1:8 sourceutput impedance ratio. I hope you are aware of this ratio. A soundcard rated @ 10ohms should be used with headphones rated @ 80ohms or higher (1:8+). That means my ASUS Xonar (10ohms) and HD-280 Pro (64ohms) combination is somewhat imperfect, but nowhere near as bad as combination of X-Fi (22ohms) and Astro A50's (48ohms).

There are definitely better soundcards and headphones out there, but I was asking yours or whoever's expert opinion on the Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro vs. X-Fi + Astro A50's sound quality comparison. After all, X-Fi + Astro A50's cost no less than $300 together, while Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro's cost no more than $140 together, but specs and source-to-output impedance ratio favor the cheaper Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro combination. Their positional audio is identical as they both use Dolby Headphone to downmix 5.1/7.1 to 2 stereo headphone speakers. Its the actual sound purity and quality that I was asking about.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThornTwist*
> 
> Thanks, REP. I'll check those out come tomorrow. I have been very busy lately.


Yeah, actually if you can right now the HyperX is a mere $59.99 which is actually a really reasonable price IMO.

http://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-KHX-H3CL/dp/B00JJNQG98

And I'm afraid the 598 deal is long gone after so many people refreshing on Amazon--it's back to $199.

Where's my rep


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> What do you mean? I use 1 single piece of software - UNi drivers (8MB installation). They do everything at lower latency than official drivers and include the improved 7.1 Shifter Profile, the latest versions of Dolby Headphone, OpenAL, and driver files in a single small package. Just FYI: there are several manufacturers that use the same exact chips as ASUS Xonar DGX, DX, etc. in their soundcards (like OMEGA) and each manufacturer has its own drivers of different file versions for the same exact chip. UNi drivers simply take the latest versions of the available driver files from each manufacturer and compile them into a single 8MB package without any compatibility issues. UNi = Unified! The result is the most up-to-date drivers files working in cohesion, providing the best performance, and the latest bug fixes that no manufacturer provided in a single package. They aren't some hacked drivers or like some of those Daniel K Sound Blaster driver compilations with odd changes. They are also of the smallest size and aren't anywhere near as bad as Creative drivers or at least as bad as Creative drivers used to be with their huge packages and numerous bugs.
> 
> With something like Sound Blaster Z, you actually have to install SBX Pro separately AFAIK and its positional audio (SBX Surround Sound) is coded on a much higher software level than ASUS Xonar's Dolby Headphone, which is coded on driver-level.
> 
> Please elaborate on what you were talking about. I know I spent $30 on ASUS Xonar DGX and $100 on Sennheiser HD-280 Pro. I know for a fact that HD-280's Pro have better specs than Astro A50's, which sounded worse and also produces mild crackling. They also were way off in terms of 1:8 sourceutput impedance ratio. I hope you are aware of this ratio. A soundcard rated @ 10ohms should be used with headphones rated @ 80ohms or higher (1:8+). That means my ASUS Xonar (10ohms) and HD-280 Pro (64ohms) combination is somewhat imperfect, but nowhere near as bad as combination of X-Fi (22ohms) and Astro A50's (48ohms).
> 
> There are definitely better soundcards and headphones out there, but I was asking yours or whoever's expert opinion on the Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro vs. X-Fi + Astro A50's sound quality comparison. After all, X-Fi + Astro A50's cost no less than $300 together, while Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro's cost no more than $140 together, but specs and source-to-output impedance ratio favor the cheaper Xonar DGX + HD-280 Pro combination. Their positional audio is identical as they both use Dolby Headphone to downmix 5.1/7.1 to 2 stereo headphone speakers. Its the actual sound purity and quality that I was asking about.


I think you're trying to read too much into what I was saying. I was just stating that it's possible to get a sound card, and a pair of headphones, and not need anything outside of the stock drivers.

I have a Titanium HD an amp and a pair of headphones and if it wasn't for the manner that I use the optical on the card, I wouldn't have any software accompanying it. I was offering a literal 'plug and play' option vs. modding headphones, and installing custom drivers/software.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I think you're trying to read too much into what I was saying. I was just stating that it's possible to get a sound card, and a pair of headphones, and not need anything outside of the stock drivers.
> 
> I have a Titanium HD an amp and a pair of headphones and if it wasn't for the manner that I use the optical on the card, I wouldn't have any software accompanying it. I was offering a literal 'plug and play' option vs. modding headphones, and installing custom drivers/software.


*How would you get surround sound then?* You need either Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D or SBX Surround Sound or similar method of downmixing 5.1/7.1 sound data to 2 speakers with positional cues to emulate surround sound. Even Dolby Digital 5.1 stream needs downmixing to 2 stereo speakers in most cases with the only exception being headphones with 2-3 speakers in each cup/can.

Again, all I have installed is a single driver - nothing more. Even basic raw Creative drivers come with more crap than the single 8MB driver with built-in audio control panel. UNi Xonar drivers (8MB) that include audio control panel are slimmer than the most basic Creative drivers (50MB+) or even Realtek HD driver (200MB+). Its minimal software.

I agree on the headphone modding, but again, I am only concerned about the actual sound quality, _disregarding other aspects that would influence headphone purchase decision._


----------



## pez

I'm speaking of the raw soundstage of certain headphones. If you ever get to try something like the Audio Technica A(D)700X, Sennheiser HD600/650, or HD 800, you'll kind of get what I'm trying to say. I've used software surround and it just sounds unnatural to me, therefore I don't use it.


----------



## ThornTwist

Thanks for the input on the headphones guys. I do have a problem I would like sorted out ASAP. It seems that my sound just, for no reason I can see, stopped working. I don't really know what do do. I tried setting the modi as default communication device, but when I test it doesn't make any sound at all. I checked my volumes and they appear to be good. It was working a second again and then just stopped working. Not sure what this is about, so looking for advice on how to fix this small problem.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm speaking of the raw soundstage of certain headphones. If you ever get to try something like the Audio Technica A(D)700X, Sennheiser HD600/650, or HD 800, you'll kind of get what I'm trying to say. I've used software surround and it just sounds unnatural to me, therefore I don't use it.


Everything depends on the game. You can't say that the virtual surround sounds unnatural on games that don't do the "raw" headphone sounds correctly.

For example on Metro games the virtual surround flies out of the window as the game just doesn't work properly even with real speaker surround setups, while stereo headphones (without virtual surround) work plain magically.
On the other hand games like Borderlands 2, Reckoning, Skyrim, etc. work very well with the virtual surround techs.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm speaking of the raw soundstage of certain headphones. If you ever get to try something like the Audio Technica A(D)700X, Sennheiser HD600/650, or HD 800, you'll kind of get what I'm trying to say. I've used software surround and it just sounds unnatural to me, therefore I don't use it.


Position audio is excellent. It uses cues that truly fool your brain into thinking the sound is coming from a specific direction. The only issue is that Dolby Headphone produces slight echo and reverberation in certain cases, where it actually seems rather fitting. However, some people dislike it and they go for SBX Suround Sound because it has absolutely 0 echo and reverberation, but some say that diminishes the positional audio aspect. There is also CMSS-3D that some prefer to Dolby Headphone, but it adjusts and lowers volume of mids and some other frequencies.

I actually find Metro Redux games to work amazingly well with Dobly Headphone 7.1. Hell, all games sound great and produce surround sound with Dolby Headphone with a few exceptions that, for some reason, use a ton of echo and reverberation. Such echo and reverberation only makes sense in tight spaces, which is usually the case, but not always.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Everything depends on the game. You can't say that the virtual surround sounds unnatural on games that don't do the "raw" headphone sounds correctly.
> 
> For example on Metro games the virtual surround flies out of the window as the game just doesn't work properly even with real speaker surround setups, while stereo headphones (without virtual surround) work plain magically.
> On the other hand games like Borderlands 2, Reckoning, Skyrim, etc. work very well with the virtual surround techs.


I can say it sounds unnatural when I've used it in 10's and 20's of games. Virtual surround isn't something that decides to work based on the game (at least for the TiHD). It's software-based and completely 3rd party to any game. For example; if I use 'stereo' sound in BC2, it still works in surround because it's a totally independent piece of software.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Position audio is excellent. It uses cues that truly fool your brain into thinking the sound is coming from a specific direction. The only issue is that Dolby Headphone produces slight echo and reverberation in certain cases, where it actually seems rather fitting. However, some people dislike it and they go for SBX Suround Sound because it has absolutely 0 echo and reverberation, but some say that diminishes the positional audio aspect. There is also CMSS-3D that some prefer to Dolby Headphone, but it adjusts and lowers volume of mids and some other frequencies.
> 
> I actually find Metro Redux games to work amazingly well with Dobly Headphone 7.1. Hell, all games sound great and produce surround sound with Dolby Headphone with a few exceptions that, for some reason, use a ton of echo and reverberation. Such echo and reverberation only makes sense in tight spaces, which is usually the case, but not always.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree







.


----------



## Tripwyr

How do you feel about the SupremeFX module on the Asus ROG Maximus motherboards? Obviously replacing the sound card on these boards is impossible, is the card reasonable? I'd prefer not to go buy an external DAC/Amp yet.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I can say it sounds unnatural when I've used it in 10's and 20's of games. Virtual surround isn't something that decides to work based on the game (at least for the TiHD). It's software-based and completely 3rd party to any game. For example; if I use 'stereo' sound in BC2, it still works in surround because it's a totally independent piece of software.
> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


If you are set to use 2-speakers and you select Stereo in a game, then there is no way it will provide you with surround sound. Besides, today we lost DirectSound and everything is software-based, not hardware-based. Even games that support 5.1/7.1 in their Audio/Sound Options, will not provide surround sound or positional audio cues when you select Stereo speakers in Windows Audio Control Panel or in your driver control panel.

Its not really a matter of opinion. Stereo provides only 2 channels - left and right. There is no way to a game can provide positional cues from a stereo source. For that to happen the game itself must use 5.1/7.1 sound and downmix it to stereo headphones/speakers. Soundcards do it using either Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, Razer Kraken Virtual Surround, or SBX Surround Sound technologies. Even Dolby Digital 5.1/7.1 headsets downmix the 5.1 sound data they receive over SPDIF to stereo headphones, using Dolby Headphone 99% of the time.


----------



## VanillaCena

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tripwyr*
> 
> How do you feel about the SupremeFX module on the Asus ROG Maximus motherboards? Obviously replacing the sound card on these boards is impossible, is the card reasonable? I'd prefer not to go buy an external DAC/Amp yet.


You can drop a sound card in there with no issues. Whether or not to disable the onboard sound in BIOS is your preference.
I leave mine enabled and make use of the extra line-out and line-in jacks with my mixer. Never hurts to have multiple sound cards.


----------



## FreeElectron

I have a question that if answered may help me in my current search.
According to
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *head-fi.org - Describing Sound - A Glossary*
> 
> *Accurate* - The music is unaltered by the recording or playback equipment. Ideally, to sound identical to the original music.


What keywords should i use when searching for an AMP and DAC that has this property?
When i use "accurate" the results are not accurate.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I have a question that if answered may help me in my current search.
> According to
> What keywords should i use when searching for an AMP and DAC that has this property?
> When i use "accurate" the results are not accurate.


Transparency.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Neutral?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> If you are set to use 2-speakers and you select Stereo in a game, then there is no way it will provide you with surround sound. Besides, today we lost DirectSound and everything is software-based, not hardware-based. Even games that support 5.1/7.1 in their Audio/Sound Options, will not provide surround sound or positional audio cues when you select Stereo speakers in Windows Audio Control Panel or in your driver control panel.
> 
> Its not really a matter of opinion. Stereo provides only 2 channels - left and right. There is no way to a game can provide positional cues from a stereo source. For that to happen the game itself must use 5.1/7.1 sound and downmix it to stereo headphones/speakers. Soundcards do it using either Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, Razer Kraken Virtual Surround, or SBX Surround Sound technologies. Even Dolby Digital 5.1/7.1 headsets downmix the 5.1 sound data they receive over SPDIF to stereo headphones, using Dolby Headphone 99% of the time.


I hope you understand in the last post I was speaking about CMSS-3D.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Transparency.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenboyXD*
> 
> Neutral?


Thanks
Hopefully the search will be easier


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I hope you understand in the last post I was speaking about CMSS-3D.


OK, but Dolby Headphone does the same exact thing as CMSS-3D, but slightly differently. Its integrated into Xonar drivers just like CMSS-3D is integrated into Creative drivers. CMSS-3D is not perfect though. SBX Pro is only technology that offers pure positional audio without any alteration of frequencies and without adding of echo/reverberation effects.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> OK, but Dolby Headphone does the same exact thing as CMSS-3D, but slightly differently.


Well CMSS-3D actually does three things:



Downmix multichannel surround sound to stereo, like Dolby Headphone, Razer Surround, and SBX Surround
Provide advanced 3D sound processing for a binaural effect, in OpenAL and DirectSound3D games
Upmix stereo to multichannel surround, kind of like the DTS NeoC encoder I think


----------



## Dimaggio1103

So I'm looking to step up from my headset. Is it possible to score some good cans and a dac and amp for 250 or under? I want good sound when working out, watching a movie on my tablet, and music on my PC. I really want to just melt away to some good sounds. But also have my crappy phone be able to push them. I read OP but figured I would ask before anything else.

I also have a mini itx motherboard so internal sound card is a no go. Also I have a pair of ATH-AD500x and they sound flat to me. Better than my headset but not by much.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I have a question that if answered may help me in my current search.
> According to
> What keywords should i use when searching for an AMP and DAC that has this property?
> When i use "accurate" the results are not accurate.


Natural.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> So I'm looking to step up from my headset. Is it possible to score some good cans and a dac and amp for 250 or under? I want good sound when working out, watching a movie on my tablet, and music on my PC. I really want to just melt away to some good sounds. But also have my crappy phone be able to push them. I read OP but figured I would ask before anything else.
> 
> I also have a mini itx motherboard so internal sound card is a no go. Also I have a pair of ATH-AD500x and they sound flat to me. Better than my headset but not by much.


Sennheiser 558s and an Aune T1.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Natural.
> Sennheiser 558s and an Aune T1.


Are those better than the ATH-M50X? Was looking at those. Also can these headphones still sound great on my phone, and be worthy upgrade from the AD500x i have?

EDIT: The Aune is 190 bucks. I would have to upgrade one thing at a time. Should I get the Aune then headphones or headphones first then down the road the Aune? Would my AD500X get a nice boost with the Aune if so I can hold off.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Are those better than the ATH-M50X? Was looking at those. Also can these headphones still sound great on my phone, and be worthy upgrade from the AD500x i have?
> 
> EDIT: The Aune is 190 bucks. I would have to upgrade one thing at a time. Should I get the Aune then headphones or headphones first then down the road the Aune? Would my AD500X get a nice boost with the Aune if so I can hold off.


New headphones would be a bigger improvement. The M50X is very different than both the HD 558 and AD500X, especially since it's closed while those two are open. The M50X has almost no sound stage at all, and if it's anything like the regular M50 (which it is supposed to be), it has boosted bass and treble, and I consider the mids to be somewhat recessed. I never heard the HD 558 but it's supposed to be more neutral.

If you want a real upgrade you'll be spending substantially more than the product you're replacing. Do you want something very similar to the AD500X?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Are those better than the ATH-M50X? Was looking at those. Also can these headphones still sound great on my phone, and be worthy upgrade from the AD500x i have?
> 
> EDIT: The Aune is 190 bucks. I would have to upgrade one thing at a time. Should I get the Aune then headphones or headphones first then down the road the Aune? Would my AD500X get a nice boost with the Aune if so I can hold off.


The Aune T1 usually goes for 120 on mass drop.

Also your phone should handle the 558s reasonably well. They would probably handle the M50x just as well.

The AD500xs have little to no bass. The 558s have a decent amount of bass.

The 558s also sound a bit more lush and natural where as the AD500x is a bit more clinical sounding.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> New headphones would be a bigger improvement. The M50X is very different than both the HD 558 and AD500X, especially since it's closed while those two are open. The M50X has almost no sound stage at all, and if it's anything like the regular M50 (which it is supposed to be), it has boosted bass and treble, and I consider the mids to be somewhat recessed. I never heard the HD 558 but it's supposed to be more neutral.
> 
> If you want a real upgrade you'll be spending substantially more than the product you're replacing. Do you want something very similar to the AD500X?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> The Aune T1 usually goes for 120 on mass drop.
> 
> Also your phone should handle the 558s reasonably well. They would probably handle the M50x just as well.
> 
> The AD500xs have little to no bass. The 558s have a decent amount of bass.
> 
> The 558s also sound a bit more lush and natural where as the AD500x is a bit more clinical sounding.


Thanks to the both of you. So I can get the 5898s instead for 200 if those are a worth upgrade over my AD500X's or should I go with the Aune first then headphones later. Im looking at doing this in two stages now for 200 each stage. I like the open headphones more than the closed, but can sacrifice if quality is better.

Side note the AD500X has a almost flat sound to me. If that helps I like bass but not to much where it overrides the treble if that makes sense.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Thanks to the both of you. So I can get the 5898s instead for 200 if those are a worth upgrade over my AD500X's or should I go with the Aune first then headphones later. Im looking at doing this in two stages now for 200 each stage. I like the open headphones more than the closed, but can sacrifice if quality is better.
> 
> Side note the AD500X has a almost flat sound to me. If that helps I like bass but not to much where it overrides the treble if that makes sense.


I might actually be able to help you out in getting a pair of 598s for under retail if you do end up choosing them over the AD500X.

If you're interested PM me as I wish to avoid derailing this thread any longer.

Long story short, gift to another audiophile, but turns out he already bought a pair...


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Thanks to the both of you. So I can get the 5898s instead for 200 if those are a worth upgrade over my AD500X's or should I go with the Aune first then headphones later. Im looking at doing this in two stages now for 200 each stage. I like the open headphones more than the closed, but can sacrifice if quality is better.
> 
> Side note the AD500X has a almost flat sound to me. If that helps I like bass but not to much where it overrides the treble if that makes sense.


The 558s are 120 bucks.

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A

Get the headphones first and wait for a good deal on an Aune T1. Don't be afraid to comb the for sale section of head-fi for a used one. Used they go for as little as 100 bucks.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> The 558s are 120 bucks.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
> 
> Get the headphones first and wait for a good deal on an Aune T1. Don't be afraid to comb the for sale section of head-fi for a used one. Used they go for as little as 100 bucks.


Try to get them for around $100 if you can though.

There was a recent flash sale on the 598s if I recall.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> The 558s are 120 bucks.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
> 
> Get the headphones first and wait for a good deal on an Aune T1. Don't be afraid to comb the for sale section of head-fi for a used one. Used they go for as little as 100 bucks.


I can go for the 598s instead since im holding off on the dac/amp. Would that be worth it even though I have crappy onboard sound?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> I can go for the 598s instead since im holding off on the dac/amp. Would that be worth it even though I have crappy onboard sound?


Nope. The 598s and the 558s are the same thing.

Same exact driver. Same exact frame. Different colors.

The only real difference is that there is a small 1 square inch piece of foam in the cups of the 558s which gives them a tad more bass.

The difference is extremely minute, and you can actually remove the foam yourself to turn the 558s into better looking 598s.


----------



## Aznlotus161

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Nope. The 598s and the 558s are the same thing.
> 
> Same exact driver. Same exact frame. Different colors.
> 
> The only real difference is that there is a small 1 square inch piece of foam in the cups of the 558s which gives them a tad more bass.
> 
> The difference is extremely minute, and you can actually remove the foam yourself to turn the 558s into better looking 598s.


I've heard all sorts of deliberation about whether if this is actually true.

Has anyone dissected each pair for a good comparison?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aznlotus161*
> 
> I've heard all sorts of deliberation about whether if this is actually true.
> 
> Has anyone dissected each pair for a good comparison?


It's kind of a small crappy image, but here is the best evidence you could ask for.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/cb/350x280px-cb811a2c_graphCompare.png


----------



## Tripwyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VanillaCena*
> 
> You can drop a sound card in there with no issues. Whether or not to disable the onboard sound in BIOS is your preference.
> I leave mine enabled and make use of the extra line-out and line-in jacks with my mixer. Never hurts to have multiple sound cards.


Sorry, I should have specified that I have a video card in the PCIe slot.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

So then will the 558s be the best bang for my buck at a 200 dollar budget? Also will I notice a difference from my ad500x?


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Well CMSS-3D actually does three things:
> 
> 
> 
> Downmix multichannel surround sound to stereo, like Dolby Headphone, Razer Surround, and SBX Surround
> Provide advanced 3D sound processing for a binaural effect, in OpenAL and DirectSound3D games
> Upmix stereo to multichannel surround, kind of like the DTS NeoC encoder I think


Dolby Headphone does the same thing, Advanced 3D sound processing is gone these days because since Windows Vista, Direct3D sound was removed, and very few games use OpenAL, which ASUS Xonar UNi drivers do support and use with Dolby Headphone. Original ASUS Xonar drivers come with an older version of OpenAL, while UNi drivers come with the most updated version.

All in all, I still do not see the point of your argument. I obviously do not use Dolby Headphone to listen to music or any 2D sound. You use positional audio in some games through CMSS-3D and I do the same through Dolby Headphone. Both technologies do the same thing, but they are implemented differently. I forgot the technical aspect of it, but CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone use opposing ways or delivering downmixed surround sound. One has something to do with environmental and head rotation (Dolby Headphone), while the other does not. This is why in some environments (closed quarters - inside buildings, structures, etc) Dolby Headphone produces slight "echo / reverberation" effect as it tries to mimic surroundings, while CMSS-3D does not. In some ways that makes CMSS-3D superior, but in others it makes it worse. One way or another, CMSS-3D does not deliver the cleanest and most accurate positional sound because it alters mid-frequencies and lowers volume on some channels. Only SBX Pro sounds clean and clear positionally. Also, *SBX Pro Studio is identical to the old THX TruStudio Pro*. They even used exactly the same web address and SBX Pro Studio has several internal references to THX TruStudio Pro. It is also interesting to note that both SBX and THX are not part of the Creative SoundBlaster Z drivers. They are both internal processing programs that hook into drivers AFAIK, unlike CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone, which are both integrated into drivers and have appropriate options & settings available in driver control panels.


----------



## mAs81

Hey guys..
I'm in no way an audio expert,thus my post here,so excuse my n00bness









I recently received as a gift the Razer Tiamat 2.2 headset,and since then I have an itch to improve the sound of my rig..
I understand that neither my headset nor my speakers are of triple A quality,and I can't fit in my rig a sound card,so after a little research I came to the portable DAC/AMP option..

My budget is kind of limited but I intend to buy the E10K Olympus 2 by FiiO,which in Greece currently costs around 100euros,but I can find it from eBay for 25+euros less..

I want to have sound improvement when gaming with headphones on and when listening to music with my Speakers..

Is this a good option?


----------



## VanillaCena

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tripwyr*
> 
> Sorry, I should have specified that I have a video card in the PCIe slot.


Does your motherboard not have another PCIE x16 or PCIE x1 slot?


----------



## Dimaggio1103

I went with the 558s. Hopefully they are a nice upgrade from my AD500x. Ill be sure to do the 598 mod. Now for the next stage upgrade in a few weeks would I be better off with the aune or a more prtable dac/amp that I can also use on my phone/tablet?


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> I went with the 558s. Hopefully they are a nice upgrade from my AD500x. Ill be sure to do the 598 mod. Now for the next stage upgrade in a few weeks would I be better off with the aune or a more prtable dac/amp that I can also use on my phone/tablet?


Sounds like a base of preference for going desktop vs portable. Personally I think the portable stuff is only really worth it if you got a good portable audio player to begin with, I'm not a fan since just some IEMs suffice for my needs with 320 mp3s and the dacs in current smartphones/tablets aren't the worst by far.

I'd stick with the Aune since you can play with different tubes and find what you like.


----------



## FreeElectron

What is the word on the sample rate and bit depth?

24 bit or 32 bit?
96Khz or 192Khz?

Are there any objective articles about this?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What is the word on the sample rate and bit depth?
> 
> 24 bit or 32 bit?
> 96Khz or 192Khz?
> 
> Are there any objective articles about this?


As a starting point, some people point to this:
link

Others point and laugh. I do think it's a reasonable starting point, though.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> As a starting point, some people point to this:
> link
> 
> Others point and laugh. I do think it's a reasonable starting point, though.


This got me really confused.
I will read and search more into it








Thanks for the link


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Dolby Headphone does the same thing, Advanced 3D sound processing is gone these days because since Windows Vista, Direct3D sound was removed, and very few games use OpenAL, which ASUS Xonar UNi drivers do support and use with Dolby Headphone. Original ASUS Xonar drivers come with an older version of OpenAL, while UNi drivers come with the most updated version.
> 
> All in all, I still do not see the point of your argument. I obviously do not use Dolby Headphone to listen to music or any 2D sound. You use positional audio in some games through CMSS-3D and I do the same through Dolby Headphone. Both technologies do the same thing, but they are implemented differently. I forgot the technical aspect of it, but CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone use opposing ways or delivering downmixed surround sound. One has something to do with environmental and head rotation (Dolby Headphone), while the other does not. This is why in some environments (closed quarters - inside buildings, structures, etc) Dolby Headphone produces slight "echo / reverberation" effect as it tries to mimic surroundings, while CMSS-3D does not. In some ways that makes CMSS-3D superior, but in others it makes it worse. One way or another, CMSS-3D does not deliver the cleanest and most accurate positional sound because it alters mid-frequencies and lowers volume on some channels. Only SBX Pro sounds clean and clear positionally. Also, *SBX Pro Studio is identical to the old THX TruStudio Pro*. They even used exactly the same web address and SBX Pro Studio has several internal references to THX TruStudio Pro. It is also interesting to note that both SBX and THX are not part of the Creative SoundBlaster Z drivers. They are both internal processing programs that hook into drivers AFAIK, unlike CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone, which are both integrated into drivers and have appropriate options & settings available in driver control panels.


I'm not sure he was the one with the argument. You may be thinking of me. I left it alone because there was obviously some loss of translation. I mentioned I used it and didn't care for it. It sounded unnatural, and on top of that, was a hassle for me to switch to considering how much music I actually listen to.


----------



## Tripwyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VanillaCena*
> 
> Does your motherboard not have another PCIE x16 or PCIE x1 slot?


No, it is a mini-ITX motherboard.

My original question was whether the Asus ROG Impact's SupremeFX module is of reasonable quality (perhaps comparable to the Xonar). I'm hoping to avoid buying external.


----------



## Sonikku13

Anyone know anything about the Schiit Fulla? It's an $80 amp and DAC combo that I'm thinking of getting, with funds from the sale of my O2+ODAC. I do need a power supply upgrade, which is behind this decision. Is it the right call? I currently use Audio-Technica AD900X headphones.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> Anyone know anything about the Schiit Fulla? It's an $80 amp and DAC combo that I'm thinking of getting, with funds from the sale of my O2+ODAC. I do need a power supply upgrade, which is behind this decision. Is it the right call? I currently use Audio-Technica AD900X headphones.


[SC/FB] $80 Headphone Amp + DAC: Schiit Fulla Released!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Hi Guys,

Yeah, it's me the not-here-often Audio Editor you guys have mysteriously thought about from time to time.

Unfortunately, time and a silly thing called 'real life' hasn't been kind to me in regards to my OCN duties however I do not want to really leave it in this suspended state.
I'm fully aware that this thread needs a massive overhaul and is in progress! This thread will be much more concise than before.

Really.

In the meanwhile, if you want me to edit any of the sticky threads in anyway, give me a PM!


----------



## VanillaCena

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tripwyr*
> 
> No, it is a mini-ITX motherboard.
> 
> My original question was whether the Asus ROG Impact's SupremeFX module is of reasonable quality (perhaps comparable to the Xonar). I'm hoping to avoid buying external.


The important thing is that it sounds good to you. Just roll with it until you're ready to buy an external DAC/AMP.


----------



## Sonikku13

Does the Magni 2 and the Modi 2 replace the Magni and the Modi as the recommended amp and DAC at $100 and $100, respectively?

Ugh, decisions, decisions, I'm downgrading from my O2+ODAC and am considering either the Fulla, or the Magni 2 and the Modi 2.


----------



## Coolzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> Does the Magni 2 and the Modi 2 replace the Magni and the Modi as the recommended amp and DAC at $100 and $100, respectively?
> 
> Ugh, decisions, decisions, I'm downgrading from my O2+ODAC and am considering either the Fulla, or the Magni 2 and the Modi 2.


The Magni 2 and Modi 2 would pretty much have to replace the vanilla Magni/Modi, considering the regular Magni/Modi are no longer available haha. The performance is especially better on the Magni 2, therefore I'd say it's a worth upgrade. Not sure how much additional quality the Modi 2 would provide, but the Modi 2 Uber seems much more interesting due to its broader feature set.

The Magni 2 and Modi 2 were released in order to ensure that Fulla did not cannibalize sales of the original Magni/Modi, so keep that in mind







in other words, they pretty much have to be better. My Asgard 2 is certainly miles ahead of my original Asgard.


----------



## boredgunner

Man I would really love to see a performance breakdown between these setups:



Schiit Modi 2 Uber + Schiit Magni 2 Uber
ODAC + Objective2 amp
Audio GD NFB-15
Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 (Plus)


----------



## Sonikku13

Meh, I'm gonna try out the Aune T1 Mk. 2 and the Magni 2. I can't afford a tube amp that's actually good at the moment..


----------



## FreeElectron

What is the difference between a USB Class 1 and USB Class 2 drivers?
Which ones should i consider and which ones will work the Razer surround software?


----------



## Tripwyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VanillaCena*
> 
> The important thing is that it sounds good to you. Just roll with it until you're ready to buy an external DAC/AMP.


I'm not going to go into my problems with Asus, but at the moment I am without the sound module. Given that I do not have a PCI slot available and do not want to spend more than $100, does the Schiit Fulla seem worthwhile? It says it should be ready to ship by tomorrow.


----------



## trojan92

Hey guys, i really wanna upgrade my speakers but am really stuck on which set to go with.
Which speakers would suit my needs the best (listening to HQ rnb/rap and watching blu rays)
Here are my choices so far - Audioengine A5+, Mackie MR5/ MR6 MK3, Alesis M1 Active 520, or the M-Audio BX5 D2.

I'd really appreciate help on this


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trojan92*
> 
> Hey guys, i really wanna upgrade my speakers but am really stuck on which set to go with.
> Which speakers would suit my needs the best (listening to HQ rnb/rap and watching blu rays)
> Here are my choices so far - Audioengine A5+, Mackie MR5/ MR6 MK3, Alesis M1 Active 520, or the M-Audio BX5 D2.
> 
> I'd really appreciate help on this


Got to leave in a few minutes but right off the bat take off the Alesis, I've owned them and they're not something to compare to regular 5" woofer monitors that are on your list (mostly bass is accurate and tight but barely present unless you want to crank it and that's no good).

The A5+ is a bit overpriced for what you get, the Mackies are decent, the M-Audio a bit less so. Is there a place where you're limited to for choice? Also budget and size constraints?


----------



## trojan92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> Got to leave in a few minutes but right off the bat take off the Alesis, I've owned them and they're not something to compare to regular 5" woofer monitors that are on your list (mostly bass is accurate and tight but barely present unless you want to crank it and that's no good).
> 
> The A5+ is a bit overpriced for what you get, the Mackies are decent, the M-Audio a bit less so. Is there a place where you're limited to for choice? Also budget and size constraints?


So far I've been looking on Decks.co.uk because I somehow ended up there








As for budget, I really don't want to spend over £330, but if I can get a nice pair for lower then definitely







Size wise, the biggest I could go is 9"x12" (wxd)


----------



## trojan92

Anyone?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trojan92*
> 
> Anyone?


Behringer B2030A Truth? Some people dislike the looks.
you could always go for receiver + passive speakers if you have enough room.


----------



## Azefore

Edit: ^or if you're open to other dealers









Sorry, didn't see the notification before. From their selection and your budget I'd get two of the Rokit 6s, second would be the Adam F5s, and then the Mackie MR6s after that.

Favoring the KRK because although now China based (among other things) the 6s will work great for your purposes, their low end extension is decent and with a 6 inch woofer you'll feel it a bit better than the Adams (especially since you're not mixing). Mackie is comparable but they just never seem to get a decently flat response going in their products.

Haven't personally heard the Mackies but I'm familiar with mid-high Adams and most of the Rokit lineup. Maybe someone else with experience on the Mackies or more can help too.


----------



## trojan92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Behringer B2030A Truth? Some people dislike the looks.
> you could always go for receiver + passive speakers if you have enough room.


Thanks for the suggestions plus I like the look of these








As for the R+PS's, I really don't have space for that stuff, would rather just plug in and go.

+REP
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> Edit: ^or if you're open to other dealers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, didn't see the notification before. From their selection and your budget I'd get two of the Rokit 6s, second would be the Adam F5s, and then the Mackie MR6s after that.
> 
> Favoring the KRK because although now China based (among other things) the 6s will work great for your purposes, their low end extension is decent and with a 6 inch woofer you'll feel it a bit better than the Adams (especially since you're not mixing). Mackie is comparable but they just never seem to get a decently flat response going in their products.
> 
> Haven't personally heard the Mackies but I'm familiar with mid-high Adams and most of the Rokit lineup. Maybe someone else with experience on the Mackies or more can help too.


Thanks for the help, I've been looking at the RP5/6's and they seem great, really liking the look as well.

+REP


----------



## dipanzan

Guys I'd need some suggestions on what to buy within 80$(strict), can't stretch anymore.

This is for a friend, he'd be using it mainly with a PC(3-4hrs daily) and mainly for music and CSGO. A big soundstage is a must I reckon, and I guess he'd prefer open back or anything which is really comfortable. Oh and this will be driven by Realtek(onboard), and sometimes with a Siberia v2 sound card(USB), but I'll convince him to buy a second hand Xonar DGx in the near future.

EDIT: I snagged an HD598, from the BlackFriday deal.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Man i am loving my Sennheiser 558s, did the mod and sounds even better. not bad for 100 bucks. I am a little sad at how crappy my computer sound card is though. Music off my moto g sounds better than when I plug this into my motherboard. lol

I wanna get the aune tube amp but waiting for it to go on sale is crap. Any suggestions for a dac/amp for around 100 bones?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Man i am loving my Sennheiser 558s, did the mod and sounds even better. not bad for 100 bucks. I am a little sad at how crappy my computer sound card is though. Music off my moto g sounds better than when I plug this into my motherboard. lol
> 
> I wanna get the aune tube amp but waiting for it to go on sale is crap. Any suggestions for a dac/amp for around 100 bones?


This is *fulla schiit!*


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Is it any good?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> Is it any good?


For the price, it actually should be pretty good. It should definitely beat out your Moto G and definitely your onboard sound. If it looks feasible to you, you could try it as they offer a 15 day money back guarantee.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

So I bought and got my Shiit today. I have a USB plug on my K70 keyboard can I plug it into there? I have it there now but so far audio is not stellar in comparison to my moto g. Wondering if its because of the port its plugged into or what else.


----------



## Azefore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimaggio1103*
> 
> So I bought and got my Shiit today. I have a USB plug on my K70 keyboard can I plug it into there? I have it there now but so far audio is not stellar in comparison to my moto g. Wondering if its because of the port its plugged into or what else.


Besides more clinical loudness from the headphone amp in the Fulla you get, you'll find a DAC is probably the most subjective point in an audio setup. From the article of cheap after-markets to onboard DACs vs thousand dollar plus DACs, blind tests and other sources find it hard pressed to find a viable difference between the setups for your dollar amount.

What I think you'd get from the Fulla is just a boost in loudness with decent - above average clarity, however it depends on your set of headphones. With an easier to drive set of cans you'll probably see less of a difference using the fulla then if you were using say, a set of HE-400s or higher.

To answer your original question about usb ports, you should be fine using the keyboard's port but some might argue possible, minor interference from the two connections you have going on. You'll probably be hard pressed to find a difference between the kb port and a standard motherboard port.

Hope what I said makes sense


----------



## pez

You might get some interference, but as long as it's a port that's more of an 'extension', power won't be the issue.


----------



## Dimaggio1103

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azefore*
> 
> Besides more clinical loudness from the headphone amp in the Fulla you get, you'll find a DAC is probably the most subjective point in an audio setup. From the article of cheap after-markets to onboard DACs vs thousand dollar plus DACs, blind tests and other sources find it hard pressed to find a viable difference between the setups for your dollar amount.
> 
> What I think you'd get from the Fulla is just a boost in loudness with decent - above average clarity, however it depends on your set of headphones. With an easier to drive set of cans you'll probably see less of a difference using the fulla then if you were using say, a set of HE-400s or higher.
> 
> To answer your original question about usb ports, you should be fine using the keyboard's port but some might argue possible, minor interference from the two connections you have going on. You'll probably be hard pressed to find a difference between the kb port and a standard motherboard port.
> 
> Hope what I said makes sense


Well put. I agree completely it sounds nicer for sure. Definitly murders my onboard, and isd better than my moto, after going back and forth. Well worth the 70 bucks. Songs and even in game sound is crispers nice separation between what i imagine is the highs and mids. love it. Im a shiit fan.


----------



## Sevada88

I am looking for a sound card. What I actually would like to know...I have a CM Storm Sirus 5.1 headset and Logitech X-230 2.1 speakers. How do I connect both the speakers and the headset to the sound card? Is it even possible?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I am looking for a sound card. What I actually would like to know...I have a CM Storm Sirus 5.1 headset and Logitech X-230 2.1 speakers. How do I connect both the speakers and the headset to the sound card? Is it even possible?


What do you need a sound card for? The Storm Sirus has its own and it's not meant to be used with one. I doubt you could connect both to a sound card since the Sirus itself uses four 3.5mm connectors.


----------



## FreeElectron

How does the new Schiit Modi 2 and Magni 2 compare to the O2 + ODAC and the older Schiit modi and magni?


----------



## carlhil2

The S16 is nice for the loot... ..even better for the money is the GO 1000, that thing was a beast...


----------



## twerk

A topic that I don't see covered much in here... but can anyone recommend me a Bluetooth speaker for less than £150? After what little searching I've done, the Bose SoundLink Mini seems like the best option. Even reviewers I trust give it high praise, which is weird for Bose


----------



## pez

The mini is better than the SoundLink Color, and is the closest speaker to their SoundLink that was $250-300 (which sounds very good, actually).

The weak point of lower end Bluetooth speakers are their bass performance. More specifically extension. It can get pretty bad for EDM music, but for the most part, its really good. Its the one thing I'd suggest trying before you buy.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> The mini is better than the SoundLink Color, and is the closest speaker to their SoundLink that was $250-300 (which sounds very good, actually).
> 
> The weak point of lower end Bluetooth speakers are their bass performance. More specifically extension. It can get pretty bad for EDM music, but for the most part, its really good. Its the one thing I'd suggest trying before you buy.


I was looking at the Cambridge Audio Go (new version) which gets good reviews for the most part, but the lack of bass really put me off. One review even said the bass gets distorted at high volumes in songs with deep bass extension.

Kind of why I'm swaying towards the SoundLink mini because the bass extension is impressive for it's size.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> What do you need a sound card for? The Storm Sirus has its own and it's not meant to be used with one. I doubt you could connect both to a sound card since the Sirus itself uses four 3.5mm connectors.


Just trying to get the best possible audio quality out of my speakers and headset. Also, I don't want to connect my headset via USB.


----------



## Makki

This is just confirmation is this going to work. Im thinking that i would go with Schiit Modi2 + Magni2 uber combination. So i thought the linkage would go as this:
Computer USB -> Modi2, RCAs out -> RCA in Magni2 uber, RCAs out -> mixer -> eq/crossover/amps

Is that correct? I would like to give my Sennheisers best quality i can give. And yes, i would like to have that mixer over there


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Just trying to get the best possible audio quality out of my speakers and headset. Also, I don't want to connect my headset via USB.


I don't think a sound card will bring sound quality improvements (at least not with the Sirus, which I also own) if you could even use one with both of those.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I don't think a sound card will bring sound quality improvements (at least not with the Sirus, which I also own) if you could even use one with both of those.


How about if I only connect one (either speakers or headset) to a sound card, will I get better audio quality then?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> How about if I only connect one (either speakers or headset) to a sound card, will I get better audio quality then?


You'd need a good sound card like the ASUS Xonar Essence ST or STX, Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, or Creative Sound Blaster ZxR, to get an accurate assessment, but I don't think the improvement will be there or worthwhile because the weakest link in your system will still be that headset and those speakers. If you want better sound quality (for music) then I'd upgrade the speakers or headset first (whichever you use more).


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> You'd need a good sound card like the ASUS Xonar Essence ST or STX, Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, or Creative Sound Blaster ZxR, to get an accurate assessment, but I don't think the improvement will be there or worthwhile because the weakest link in your system will still be that headset and those speakers. If you want better sound quality (for music) then I'd upgrade the speakers or headset first (whichever you use more).


If I upgrade, it will probably be the speakers. But thanks for the info, it helped.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> The mini is better than the SoundLink Color, and is the closest speaker to their SoundLink that was $250-300 (which sounds very good, actually).
> 
> The weak point of lower end Bluetooth speakers are their bass performance. More specifically extension. It can get pretty bad for EDM music, but for the most part, its really good. Its the one thing I'd suggest trying before you buy.


Quick update. I went with the Libratone Zipp. It's normally £300 but I snagged one for £140.

I'll let everyone know how it sounds when I get it but going by the reviews, it should be excellent.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I was looking at the Cambridge Audio Go (new version) which gets good reviews for the most part, but the lack of bass really put me off. One review even said the bass gets distorted at high volumes in songs with deep bass extension.
> 
> Kind of why I'm swaying towards the SoundLink mini because the bass extension is impressive for it's size.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Quick update. I went with the Libratone Zipp. It's normally £300 but I snagged one for £140.
> 
> I'll let everyone know how it sounds when I get it but going by the reviews, it should be excellent.


Awesome! Though I havent heard of either







. Curious to hear your impressions though.


----------



## trojan92

Hey guys, I purchased a set of KRK Rokit RP6's and plugged them in via RCA to my Soundblaster Z and noticed there's a really loud hiss/crackling sound. I plugged the speakers into my LG G3 using the RCA to 3.5mm jack and the hiss/crackle was gone. So I'm guessing it's something to do with either my sound card or something else? I've tried the onboard audio on my Mobo and there was a lot more than when I connect to my SBZ. Anyone know why this is and how I can fix it?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trojan92*
> 
> Hey guys, I purchased a set of KRK Rokit RP6's and plugged them in via RCA to my Soundblaster Z and noticed there's a really loud hiss/crackling sound. I plugged the speakers into my LG G3 using the RCA to 3.5mm jack and the hiss/crackle was gone. So I'm guessing it's something to do with either my sound card or something else? I've tried the onboard audio on my Mobo and there was a lot more than when I connect to my SBZ. Anyone know why this is and how I can fix it?


Groundloop.
Either buy a groundloop isolator (RCA to RCA), use external optical DAC or tape the grounding pins (ghetto fix).


----------



## trojan92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Groundloop.
> Either buy a groundloop isolator (RCA to RCA), use external optical DAC or tape the grounding pins (ghetto fix).


Ah right. I came across this. So if I got that, plugged my speakers into it and then ran a RCA to 3.5mm converter at the end (this thing) then plug it into my SBZ (OEM Edition) it should remove the hiss and crackle?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trojan92*
> 
> Ah right. I came across this. So if I got that, plugged my speakers into it and then ran a RCA to 3.5mm converter at the end (this thing) then plug it into my SBZ (OEM Edition) it should remove the hiss and crackle?


Yes.


----------



## trojan92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Yes.


Thanks for the help mate!


----------



## dude98

What would you all recommend for Q701's? I've been looking at the Modi and Magni or the O2+ODAC with a ~$300 budget (I was recommended the Monoprice dac/amp, but no idea if it's any good?).

Are the Modi 2 and Magni 2 any better than the originals? What would be the best match out of these, or is there something better?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dude98*
> 
> What would you all recommend for Q701's? I've been looking at the Modi and Magni or the O2+ODAC with a ~$300 budget (I was recommended the Monoprice dac/amp, but no idea if it's any good?).
> 
> Are the Modi 2 and Magni 2 any better than the originals? What would be the best match out of these, or is there something better?


For full disclosure, I'm an electrical engineering grad student and more a tech head than usual audiophile who doesn't see as much value and performance difference between most audio electronics than most audiophiles. In other words, perhaps I have a minority opinion, though one I believe is backed by the scientific research, just not the diehard hobbyists.

Anyway, the headphones matter a lot more than anything else you're thinking about right now, and I'm not convinced you should spend $300 just because your budget allows for it. I'd consider something like the Schiit Fulla perhaps, with at $80 should have the electrical design and chops to blow your ears off in terms of volume levels and not sound obviously wrong (not sounding obviously wrong being the goal of the electronics, which just deliver the signal to drive the headphones).

As for the actual products you asked about, The O2/ODAC's two main performance advantages over the Magni/Modi are having a gain switch (so more flexibility with a variety of headphones) and a lower noise floor, a nonfactor for the relatively insensitive Q701 but relevant if you have sensitive IEMs. More people say the Magni/Modi look better and have a more sensible positioning of jacks and so on, and the Magni is somewhat more powerful than the O2-which is a nonfactor for the Q701, which the O2 can already drive to volumes really bad for your ears and above what it's rated to handle anyway.

Magni 2 adds the gain switch the original was missing and tweaked the circuit design for improved performance. Modi 2 adds 24/192 support, which is virtually useless, and had some even more minor tweaks for performance improvements.

I don't know about the Monoprice product, but doubtlessly it's sourced from some unknown Chinese audio source, which frequently churn out subpar results. Then again, subpar doesn't necessarily even imply all that bad in the grand scheme of things, potentially not even audibly different with the right conditions.

All of these involve solid state amplification not tuned for intentional additives (distortion) and aren't underpowered for those headphones. All should pair decently well.


----------



## dude98

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> For full disclosure, I'm an electrical engineering grad student and more a tech head than usual audiophile who doesn't see as much value and performance difference between most audio electronics than most audiophiles. In other words, perhaps I have a minority opinion, though one I believe is backed by the scientific research, just not the diehard hobbyists.
> 
> Anyway, the headphones matter a lot more than anything else you're thinking about right now, and I'm not convinced you should spend $300 just because your budget allows for it. I'd consider something like the Schiit Fulla perhaps, with at $80 should have the electrical design and chops to blow your ears off in terms of volume levels and not sound obviously wrong (not sounding obviously wrong being the goal of the electronics, which just deliver the signal to drive the headphones).
> 
> As for the actual products you asked about, The O2/ODAC's two main performance advantages over the Magni/Modi are having a gain switch (so more flexibility with a variety of headphones) and a lower noise floor, a nonfactor for the relatively insensitive Q701 but relevant if you have sensitive IEMs. More people say the Magni/Modi look better and have a more sensible positioning of jacks and so on, and the Magni is somewhat more powerful than the O2-which is a nonfactor for the Q701, which the O2 can already drive to volumes really bad for your ears and above what it's rated to handle anyway.
> 
> Magni 2 adds the gain switch the original was missing and tweaked the circuit design for improved performance. Modi 2 adds 24/192 support, which is virtually useless, and had some even more minor tweaks for performance improvements.
> 
> I don't know about the Monoprice product, but doubtlessly it's sourced from some unknown Chinese audio source, which frequently churn out subpar results. Then again, subpar doesn't necessarily even imply all that bad in the grand scheme of things, potentially not even audibly different with the right conditions.
> 
> All of these involve solid state amplification not tuned for intentional additives (distortion) and aren't underpowered for those headphones. All should pair decently well.


This is very interesting, and helpful.

How would you say the Fiio E10K compares to the Fulla? I am currently using these Q701's with a friends E10K, since I have nothing else to amp them at the moment. I think it sounds fairly good, and have been considering it along with the Modi/Magni (at this point I would say it's between the Fulla, Modi/Magni and E10K), but needless to say I don't want one if it's poorly built (internally) or the Fulla is better.

The Monoprice unit, from what I understand, is a rebranded Fiio E09K with an added dac (a TI PCM1793 from what I've heard).

Thank you for the help, it is much appreciated.


----------



## mikeaj

The FiiO E10K is older than the very new Schiit Fulla. If you're worried about new product glitches, the Fulla already had them-the 48 / 96 kHz sample rates didn't work properly in the first batch because of an inadvertent part swap of theoretically (but not actually) identical components. I guess it's good to go now?

The E10K is an update to the older plain E10 tested here, for what it's worth.

E10K happens to have similar specs compared to the Fulla, with the Fulla being a tad more powerful. And made in the USA, if you care about that kind of thing. I wouldn't expect groundbreaking differences between the two; preference should probably be based on the ergonomics and which you think looks nicer. I think some of the metal is supposedly kind of sharp on the Fulla. All in all, a Q701 should sound like a Q701 on either of the two or the Magni/Modi or most things. Perhaps not quite on some of the amps intentionally tuned to sound different.

The Monoprice does look like the E09K, but I could've sworn I'd seen products from other brands with that exact same shape too. Maybe more rebrands.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Still debating on buying a sound card as so far the on-board on my z97x-SOC Force mobo is good, especially paired w/ my Rotel pre-amp, but I do know a good soundcard would bump that up quite a bit. Been looking at Asus's mid-range card unless I find a better deal on a higher end card.


----------



## carlhil2

Best vst software bargain at the moment, they work well with JRiver..$24.00...http://www.crysonic.com/


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Made me a new headphone stand.


----------



## dpoverlord

I like it!

LaBestia been awhile since Titanfall. Send a photo with the headphones!


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dpoverlord*
> 
> I like it!
> 
> LaBestia been awhile since Titanfall. Send a photo with the headphones!


Been a while for sure. Don't have a clear pic, but here's one with my phone:


----------



## Nephalem

Hi guys can anyone suggest a good sounding freestanding Desktop mic that doesn't pick up too much background noise? I used to use my Logitech Headset for gaming when I wanted to talk to friends but I got rid of that in favor of a set of ATH-M50Xs which are amazing, anyway I am looking for a Mic that can be used mainly with my speakers, I prefer to use them as the spatial depth seems better, hence the reason I don't want anything that picks up background noise otherwise people will hear themselves and my game. Ideas? I've been looking at the Samson Meteor, and I was looking at the Blue Snowball until I realised just how much it gets in the way with it's size.


----------



## Golden Diva

Hello everyone!

I own a Soundblaster ZxR as a sound card and plan on buying a pair of M-Audio AV 40 speakers with a Dayton SUB-800, since those are recommended for small budgets in the op.

However, I was wondering how to hook them up on the ZxR.

The ZxR has two RCA outputs (front left and right) and two mini jack outputs (rear and c/sub).

My first idea was to connect the speakers to the front output (with a dual RCA to dual RCA cable) and the subwoofer to the c/sub output (with a mini jack to RCA cable).
However, I read somewhere (don't know if it's true) that I will not be able to get 2.1 configuration in the driver and the subwoofer will only get recognized in 5.1. I fear that, if I go to 5.1 mode and disable the rear speakers, I will lose some sound effects...

So, if it is true, what should I do ? Split the whole signal from the front output to both the speakers and the subwoofer ?
And maybe you have a better idea for other speakers and/or subwoofer that would fit well with my sound card ?

I would like to avoid buying a receiver or something like that (I am really a noob in this field...), but if it is really suboptimal, then I might still consider getting one.

Thank you for your help!


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I own a Soundblaster ZxR as a sound card and plan on buying a pair of M-Audio AV 40 speakers with a Dayton SUB-800, since those are recommended for small budgets in the op.
> 
> However, I was wondering how to hook them up on the ZxR.
> 
> The ZxR has two RCA outputs (front left and right) and two mini jack outputs (rear and c/sub).
> 
> My first idea was to connect the speakers to the front output (with a dual RCA to dual RCA cable) and the subwoofer to the c/sub output (with a mini jack to RCA cable).
> However, I read somewhere (don't know if it's true) that I will not be able to get 2.1 configuration in the driver and the subwoofer will only get recognized in 5.1. I fear that, if I go to 5.1 mode and disable the rear speakers, I will lose some sound effects...
> 
> So, if it is true, what should I do ? Split the whole signal from the front output to both the speakers and the subwoofer ?
> And maybe you have a better idea for other speakers and/or subwoofer that would fit well with my sound card ?
> 
> I would like to avoid buying a receiver or something like that (I am really a noob in this field...), but if it is really suboptimal, then I might still consider getting one.
> 
> Thank you for your help!


Why not get a nice receiver? You can score a nice used one that people scrap, just because they don't have HDMI.


----------



## DarthBaggins

I got my Rotel Amp (6 x 100) and Pre-Amp for $150 so there are some definite good components out there for the low


----------



## Golden Diva

Thank you for your answers.

Basically, there are two main reasons for which I'd rather avoid buying a receiver. (I could be completely wrong on the first one though.)

1. The main use of my PC is gaming, not really music or movies.
My goal was to get a decent 2.1 setup for 200-250 € that would sound better than most all-in-one 2.1 PC speakers (like Corsair SP2500, ...).
I fear that a receiver would be totally overkill for gaming, especially if it costs as much as (if not more than) the speakers and the subwoofer together...
As I said, I could be wrong and maybe a decent receiver would be worth it with the components I plan on buying, so feel free to correct me if this is the case.

2. I have absolutely zero knowledge in this field and I have no idea how to use a receiver, how to hook it up to my sound card or to my speakers and subwoofer, ...
Considering my lack of knowledge, I think that I would probably use it in a much sub-optimal way.

Now, if you told me that a receiver is easy to use for a beginner, worth the price for gaming and that I can find a decent yet not too expensive one, it would be a different story of course.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> I got my Rotel Amp (6 x 100) and Pre-Amp for $150 so there are some definite good components out there for the low


OK, this is a little less pricey than what I was expecting, but it still costs nearly as much as the whole 2.1 setup. It has to be worth the buy to justify the additional money.
I should add that I do not seek earth shaking bass and high volume sound since I currently live in an appartment with neighbours. Simply a decent sound quality for my most immersive single player games.


----------



## DarthBaggins

lol I live in an apartment, screw neighbors







half the time they try to play their setups loud till I turn mine up a 1/4 of the way and my amp to 1/2 for 2 channels


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Thank you for your answers.
> 
> Basically, there are two main reasons for which I'd rather avoid buying a receiver. (I could be completely wrong on the first one though.)
> 
> 1. The main use of my PC is gaming, not really music or movies.
> My goal was to get a decent 2.1 setup for 200-250 € that would sound better than most all-in-one 2.1 PC speakers (like Corsair SP2500, ...).
> I fear that a receiver would be totally overkill for gaming, especially if it costs as much as (if not more than) the speakers and the subwoofer together...
> As I said, I could be wrong and maybe a decent receiver would be worth it with the components I plan on buying, so feel free to correct me if this is the case.
> 
> 2. I have absolutely zero knowledge in this field and I have no idea how to use a receiver, how to hook it up to my sound card or to my speakers and subwoofer, ...
> Considering my lack of knowledge, I think that I would probably use it in a much sub-optimal way.
> 
> Now, if you told me that a receiver is easy to use for a beginner, worth the price for gaming and that I can find a decent yet not too expensive one, it would be a different story of course.
> OK, this is a little less pricey than what I was expecting, but it still costs nearly as much as the whole 2.1 setup. It has to be worth the buy to justify the additional money.
> I should add that I do not seek earth shaking bass and high volume sound since I currently live in an appartment with neighbours. Simply a decent sound quality for my most immersive single player games.


I bought my receiver for 25 bucks, Really easy to set up and works just as good with games as it does with movies and music.


----------



## Golden Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> lol I live in an apartment, screw neighbors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> half the time they try to play their setups loud till I turn mine up a 1/4 of the way and my amp to 1/2 for 2 channels


Haha, you are mean!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> I bought my receiver for 25 bucks, Really easy to set up and works just as good with games as it does with movies and music.


Nice!

So, what kind of receiver would you recommend that is not too expensive ?
I will not use all the fancy features anyway, so I guess an entry level one should be OK.

Moreover, I just realized that the Dayton subwoofers seem impossible to find in Europe.
In fact, most of the recommended entry level subwoofers on this topic do not seem to exist here...

Would the Yamaha YST SW012 be OK with a pair of M-Audio AV 40 ?

http://www.amazon.fr/Yamaha-YST-SW012-Caisson-basses-Noir/dp/B000OVQE64/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421445974&sr=8-1&keywords=caisson+de+basses

It is cheap and it seems to be the best-seller on Amazon.fr, though I guess that does not mean much...

Or do you have an other suggestion for me ?

Sorry to bother you with all these questions...


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Haha, you are mean!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> So, what kind of receiver would you recommend that is not too expensive ?
> I will not use all the fancy features anyway, so I guess an entry level one should be OK.
> 
> Moreover, I just realized that the Dayton subwoofers seem impossible to find in Europe.
> In fact, most of the recommended entry level subwoofers on this topic do not seem to exist here...
> 
> Would the Yamaha YST SW012 be OK with a pair of M-Audio AV 40 ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.fr/Yamaha-YST-SW012-Caisson-basses-Noir/dp/B000OVQE64/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421445974&sr=8-1&keywords=caisson+de+basses
> 
> It is cheap and it seems to be the best-seller on Amazon.fr, though I guess that does not mean much...
> 
> Or do you have an other suggestion for me ?
> 
> Sorry to bother you with all these questions...


This is the exact same receiver that I'm using listed on ebay. There are many more like it. It's just to show you an example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-HTR-5830-Natural-Sound-5-1-Channel-400-Watt-Audio-Video-Surround-Receiver-/400749091305?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item5d4e81d9e9

That's a nice Sub, should do the job nicely.









I'm not really sure what is available in Europe, I really can't help much.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Would the Yamaha YST SW012 be OK with a pair of M-Audio AV 40 ?


For your purposes the point of a receiver would just be to provide amplification for passive speakers. I guess if you had multiple audio sources it could output to your speakers for all of those as well.

M-Audio AV 40 are active speakers, already coming with an amplifier inside, so it would be a waste.

Try searching Thomann for subs.


----------



## Golden Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> This is the exact same receiver that I'm using listed on ebay. There are many more like it. It's just to show you an example.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-HTR-5830-Natural-Sound-5-1-Channel-400-Watt-Audio-Video-Surround-Receiver-/400749091305?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item5d4e81d9e9
> 
> That's a nice Sub, should do the job nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not really sure what is available in Europe, I really can't help much.


Thanks for the link and the advice! I made a quick research and it looks like there is a wide range of models available where I live, for once. However, I still have to think about that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> For your purposes the point of a receiver would just be to provide amplification for passive speakers. I guess if you had multiple audio sources it could output to your speakers for all of those as well.
> 
> M-Audio AV 40 are active speakers, already coming with an amplifier inside, so it would be a waste.
> 
> Try searching Thomann for subs.


Ha, OK. No, the only audio source is my ZxR.

As I understood the thing, the receiver could have served another purpose in my case, i.e. splitting the signal from the soundcard between the speakers and the subwoofer.

My original problem was that I did not know how to hook up everything together and having access to 2.1 sound.
(Without having to force 5.1 in the driver and then disabling the unwanted speakers. I think (may be wrong though) that if you hook up the speakers on the front output and the subwoofer on the c/sub output, you do not have access to 2.1 in the driver.)

What would you suggest ?

By the way, I didn't know Thomann but they seem to sell a wide range of products!
Thanks, I'll have a look at that too.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Thanks for the link and the advice! I made a quick research and it looks like there is a wide range of models available where I live, for once. However, I still have to think about that.
> Ha, OK. No, the only audio source is my ZxR.
> 
> As I understood the thing, the receiver could have served another purpose in my case, i.e. splitting the signal from the soundcard between the speakers and the subwoofer.
> 
> My original problem was that I did not know how to hook up everything together and having access to 2.1 sound.
> (Without having to force 5.1 in the driver and then disabling the unwanted speakers. I think (may be wrong though) that if you hook up the speakers on the front output and the subwoofer on the c/sub output, you do not have access to 2.1 in the driver.)
> 
> What would you suggest ?
> 
> By the way, I didn't know Thomann but they seem to sell a wide range of products!
> Thanks, I'll have a look at that too.


I'm not sure how Creative drivers are nowadays but you couldn't disable the other speakers. The Realtek audio you could, but it would be really weird in games that think it's running 5.1.
Another option would be using two Y splitters. One set or RCA cables for the sub and the other to your speakers.

Then the other option would be to choose a sub with low level input and output. It'll go from the soundcard then to the sub then to the speakers. This would probably the best option because you get to use the crossover built into the sub.

Something like this would be it, but I'm not sure how good their stuff may be. http://www.amazon.fr/Auna-Linie-300-SW-WH-Subwoofer-ch%C3%A2ssis-Bassreflex/dp/B00GZ1YW9S


----------



## FreeElectron

Have anyone tried the Creative SoundBlaster X7?
How does it compare to the Titanium HD when it comes to surround?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Have anyone tried the Creative SoundBlaster X7?
> How does it compare to the Titanium HD when it comes to surround?


X7 is one huge waste of money if you are not going to use it as an amplifier for passive speakers. As stuff like SoundBlaster Omni and ZxR would be much better options.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> X7 is one huge waste of money if you are not going to use it as an amplifier for passive speakers. As stuff like SoundBlaster Omni and ZxR would be much better options.


Well
I am kind of trying to take the external route to stay away from computer noise and have more space for other activities


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Well
> I am kind of trying to take the external route to stay away from computer noise and have more space for other activities


Schiit Fulla + Razer Surround
Or ODAC+O2, Schiit Stack, etc.

Or the wildcard:
1. Get a Sound Blaster Z
2. Get a Schiit Modi 2 über with the optical input
3. Use SBZ optical output and add the SBX surround to it.
4. ???
5. PROFIT!


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Schiit Fulla + Razer Surround
> Or ODAC+O2, Schiit Stack, etc.
> 
> Or the wildcard:
> 1. Get a Sound Blaster Z
> 2. Get a Schiit Modi 2 über with the optical input
> 3. Use SBZ optical output and add the SBX surround to it.
> 4. ???
> 5. PROFIT!


optical cables use light photons which is not affected by noise?
Also which is better surround?
Soundblaster z/zx/zxr or sounblaster titanium hd or razer surround?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> optical cables use light photons which is not affected by noise?
> Also which is better surround?
> Soundblaster z/zx/zxr or sounblaster titanium hd or razer surround?


Sound Blaster Z/Zx/ZxR and the X7 should have identical surround (SBX Surround). I have no experience with SBX Surround, but I do have a Titanium HD and I've tried Razer Surround. Razer Surround has a stronger, exaggerated surround sensation. Competitive gamers usually prefer Razer Surround for this reason.

Since all of these virtual surround technologies are in the same ballpark, I'd just use Razer Surround and spend money on a good DAC and amp rather than a sound card.

I don't think noise is a problem when using optical cables, audiophiles will however bring up jitter (whatever that is) and others will say all of this is negligible. I use my Titanium HD's optical output routed to an upgraded Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, sound quality is superior than just using the sound card.


----------



## trojan92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Groundloop.
> Either buy a groundloop isolator (RCA to RCA), use external optical DAC or tape the grounding pins (ghetto fix).


Thanks for the suggestion, this worked for me but I did stumble across another problem. I know the Rokit's have an autosleep mode where they go on standby if nothing is played through them for 30 mins but after plugging in the ground loop isolator, they seem to go off even when audio is playing unless it's turned up very high. This didn't happen without the isolator so I know it's happening because of it. So now I'm wondering if I should get a DAC and run that through my motherboards optical out as that would solve both the problem I was experiencing with interference and also not require me to have the volume turned to insane levels. Anyone know if this is a good idea or if I should just stick with what I have and let my ears bleed every now and then


----------



## Nephalem

Well looks like my last question got skipped, here goes again except simpler.
Good, small, reasonably priced mic. Suggestions?


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> optical cables use light photons which is not affected by noise?
> Also which is better surround?
> Soundblaster z/zx/zxr or sounblaster titanium hd or razer surround?
> 
> 
> 
> Sound Blaster Z/Zx/ZxR and the X7 should have identical surround (SBX Surround). I have no experience with SBX Surround, but I do have a Titanium HD and I've tried Razer Surround. Razer Surround has a stronger, exaggerated surround sensation. Competitive gamers usually prefer Razer Surround for this reason.
> 
> Since all of these virtual surround technologies are in the same ballpark, I'd just use Razer Surround and spend money on a good DAC and amp rather than a sound card.
> 
> I don't think noise is a problem when using optical cables, audiophiles will however bring up jitter (whatever that is) and others will say all of this is negligible. I use my Titanium HD's optical output routed to an upgraded Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, sound quality is superior than just using the sound card.
Click to expand...

AFAIK jitter is caused by imperfect timing, so a slightly shorter or longer delay between clock cycles will physically change the sound. SPIDF IS technically lossless... All the data gets to the DAC, but not necessarily at the right time.

Other interfaces like USB, HDMI and such are much better with jitter (though most optical outputs are probably fine, especially on soundcards).

Razer Surround doesn't butcher the sound too much, but the effect is pretty exaggerated. It's clearly marketed towards FPS gamers who want to pinpoint gunshots/footsteps. Dolby Headphone (on Xonars) is geared towards movie/music lovers, while Creative seems to advertise SBX as a general sound enhancer (though I think it the technology came from old THX software).


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Well looks like my last question got skipped, here goes again except simpler.
> Good, small, reasonably priced mic. Suggestions?


How small? If it needs to be very small, the Samson Go Mic is a good choice. It's of good quality and only about ~$30.

If you want something bigger -- more of a desktop sized mic -- then take a look at the Blue Snowball.


----------



## Nephalem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> How small? If you want a (very) small mic, the Samson Go Mic is a good choice. It's of good quality and only about ~$30.
> 
> If you want something bigger -- more of a desktop sized mic -- then take a look at the Blue Snowball.


Snowball seems a bit large, for more of a point of reference I have been looking at a Samson Meteor


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Snowball seems a bit large, for more of a point of reference I have been looking at a Samson Meteor


The Meteor is a good mic. IMO it's overpriced but it's still a nice mic.

What exactly are you going to use the mic for? If just game chat, maybe look at the Meteorite. It's cheaper, small and will still give good performance. It being directional could also benefit you if you're using speakers.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Sound Blaster Z/Zx/ZxR and the X7 should have identical surround (SBX Surround). I have no experience with SBX Surround, but I do have a Titanium HD and I've tried Razer Surround. Razer Surround has a stronger, exaggerated surround sensation. Competitive gamers usually prefer Razer Surround for this reason.
> 
> Since all of these virtual surround technologies are in the same ballpark, I'd just use Razer Surround and spend money on a good DAC and amp rather than a sound card.
> 
> I don't think noise is a problem when using optical cables, audiophiles will however bring up jitter (whatever that is) and others will say all of this is negligible. I use my Titanium HD's optical output routed to an upgraded Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, sound quality is superior than just using the sound card.



I might consider soundcard => DAC => AMP => Headphones if this will make better quality sound and better imaging/surround.
So razer surround is exaggerated (emphasized) compared to Titanium HD but which one is more positionally accurate?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> AFAIK jitter is caused by imperfect timing, so a slightly shorter or longer delay between clock cycles will physically change the sound. SPIDF IS technically lossless... All the data gets to the DAC, but not necessarily at the right time.
> 
> Other interfaces like USB, HDMI and such are much better with jitter (though most optical outputs are probably fine, especially on soundcards).
> 
> Razer Surround doesn't butcher the sound too much, but the effect is pretty exaggerated. It's clearly marketed towards FPS gamers who want to pinpoint gunshots/footsteps. Dolby Headphone (on Xonars) is geared towards movie/music lovers, while Creative seems to advertise SBX as a general sound enhancer (though I think it the technology came from old THX software).



ok, How can i get the data out of my soundcard to the DAC in accurate timing (without using hdmi as it is analog signal that might carry noise)
So, Razer or SBX is more positionally accurate?


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Sound Blaster Z/Zx/ZxR and the X7 should have identical surround (SBX Surround). I have no experience with SBX Surround, but I do have a Titanium HD and I've tried Razer Surround. Razer Surround has a stronger, exaggerated surround sensation. Competitive gamers usually prefer Razer Surround for this reason.
> 
> Since all of these virtual surround technologies are in the same ballpark, I'd just use Razer Surround and spend money on a good DAC and amp rather than a sound card.
> 
> I don't think noise is a problem when using optical cables, audiophiles will however bring up jitter (whatever that is) and others will say all of this is negligible. I use my Titanium HD's optical output routed to an upgraded Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, sound quality is superior than just using the sound card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might consider soundcard => DAC => AMP => Headphones if this will make better quality sound and better imaging/surround.
> So razer surround is exaggerated (emphasized) compared to Titanium HD but which one is more positionally accurate?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> AFAIK jitter is caused by imperfect timing, so a slightly shorter or longer delay between clock cycles will physically change the sound. SPIDF IS technically lossless... All the data gets to the DAC, but not necessarily at the right time.
> 
> Other interfaces like USB, HDMI and such are much better with jitter (though most optical outputs are probably fine, especially on soundcards).
> 
> Razer Surround doesn't butcher the sound too much, but the effect is pretty exaggerated. It's clearly marketed towards FPS gamers who want to pinpoint gunshots/footsteps. Dolby Headphone (on Xonars) is geared towards movie/music lovers, while Creative seems to advertise SBX as a general sound enhancer (though I think it the technology came from old THX software).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok, How can i get the data out of my soundcard to the DAC in accurate timing (without using hdmi as it is analog signal that might carry noise)
> So, Razer or SBX is more positionally accurate?
Click to expand...

1: HDMI is digital. And all digital audio outputs technically bypass the soundcard. The ONLY thing a Creative soundcard does is "license" you to run SBX... which actually uses the CPU.

DACs usually use USB, Receivers use HDMI. Just use one of those, depending on what you get.

2: It's all about personal preference, really. Some ears will like SBX, others will like Razer Surround.

However, IDK if SBX actually works with HDMI/USB. You'll probably have to use the card's SPIDF output to use SBX
Since Razer Surround is free, and supports 8 channels vs. SBX's 6... I'd give it a shot first, then buy a Creative card if you aren't satisfied with Razer Surround.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> 1: HDMI is digital. And all digital audio outputs technically bypass the soundcard. The ONLY thing a Creative soundcard does is "license" you to run SBX... which actually uses the CPU.
> 
> DACs usually use USB, Receivers use HDMI. Just use one of those, depending on what you get.
> 
> 2: It's all about personal preference, really. Some ears will like SBX, others will like Razer Surround.
> 
> However, IDK if SBX actually works with HDMI/USB. You'll probably have to use the card's SPIDF output to use SBX
> Since Razer Surround is free, and supports 8 channels vs. SBX's 6... I'd give it a shot first, then buy a Creative card if you aren't satisfied with Razer Surround.



oh.. I always thought that HDMI is analog








Which if those has least jitter (on time or accurate time transfer)?
Sounds like a good suggestion.


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> 1: HDMI is digital. And all digital audio outputs technically bypass the soundcard. The ONLY thing a Creative soundcard does is "license" you to run SBX... which actually uses the CPU.
> 
> DACs usually use USB, Receivers use HDMI. Just use one of those, depending on what you get.
> 
> 2: It's all about personal preference, really. Some ears will like SBX, others will like Razer Surround.
> 
> However, IDK if SBX actually works with HDMI/USB. You'll probably have to use the card's SPIDF output to use SBX
> Since Razer Surround is free, and supports 8 channels vs. SBX's 6... I'd give it a shot first, then buy a Creative card if you aren't satisfied with Razer Surround.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh.. I always thought that HDMI is analog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which if those has least jitter (on time or accurate time transfer)?
> Sounds like a good suggestion.
Click to expand...

IDK, USB/HDMI will have so little that it doesn't really matter. Honestly, you probably wouldn't notice a difference with SPIDF either.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brucethemoose*
> 
> IDK, USB/HDMI will have so little that it doesn't really matter. Honestly, you probably wouldn't notice a difference with SPIDF either.


hmm
Are there any links talking about this topic?


----------



## Golden Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> I'm not sure how Creative drivers are nowadays but you couldn't disable the other speakers. The Realtek audio you could, but it would be really weird in games that think it's running 5.1.
> Another option would be using two Y splitters. One set or RCA cables for the sub and the other to your speakers.
> 
> Then the other option would be to choose a sub with low level input and output. It'll go from the soundcard then to the sub then to the speakers. This would probably the best option because you get to use the crossover built into the sub.
> 
> Something like this would be it, but I'm not sure how good their stuff may be. http://www.amazon.fr/Auna-Linie-300-SW-WH-Subwoofer-ch%C3%A2ssis-Bassreflex/dp/B00GZ1YW9S


Yes, that looks exactly like the kind of connectivity I would need!

I had a look at Thomann, and I found this for 200€ :

http://www.thomann.de/be/samson_resolv_sub_120a_subwoofer.htm

I don't know this brand. Is it of decent quality for this price ?

I haven't found many subs with RCA in AND out ...

Thank you very much for your suggestion anyway!


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Yes, that looks exactly like the kind of connectivity I would need!
> 
> I had a look at Thomann, and I found this for 200€ :
> 
> http://www.thomann.de/be/samson_resolv_sub_120a_subwoofer.htm
> 
> I don't know this brand. Is it of decent quality for this price ?
> 
> I haven't found many subs with RCA in AND out ...
> 
> Thank you very much for your suggestion anyway!


Samson makes some good studio stuff so the sub should make for an excellent musical sub. Not sure how well it would work for games and movies, but it shouldn't be bad.


----------



## Blze001

Man, I'm reading this thread and realizing my computer and gaming habits are about as anti-good sound as you can get.









Mini-ITX computer (No PCI sound cards for me!) and moving between the desk and the couch depending on if I'm using the KB/M or the controller (Separate headset/mic are no bueno).


----------



## FreeElectron

What is a good headphone stand?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What is a good headphone stand?


I like the Woo Audio stands.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I like the Woo Audio stands.


yea, but it is expensive








I will probably go with the silverstone one


----------



## Golden Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Samson makes some good studio stuff so the sub should make for an excellent musical sub. Not sure how well it would work for games and movies, but it shouldn't be bad.


Thank you again for your advice. I did some research in the meantime and most reviews I could find seem to agree with you on the fact that it is a decent sub for the price.

Unfortunately, I also heard several users saying that the crossover doesn't work when using the line level (RCA) output of the sub, which is exactly what I would want to do!

In the end, I decided to raise my budget if it can allow me to get a good setup which actually works with the line level output.

So, here is my last request before I stop bothering you. I listed below the most interesting subs I could find which are available in my country while not being too expensive for me (though they still cost quite a sum, IMO, and will probably force me to eat pastas for a few weeks







) and having RCA inputs and outputs.

I recall that the primary usage will be gaming, as well as a little bit of music, and the setup will be connected to my Soundblaster ZxR. I may consider buying a DAC or receiver in the future, as suggested by DarthBaggins and LaBestiaHumana, even though it is still not totally planned at this time.

Here is the list:

- Prodipe Pro 10s V2 (298 €)

- Adam SubF (294 €)

- Adam Sub7 (325 €)

- PreSonus Tremblor T8 (329 €)

- RCF Ayra Ten Sub (369 €)

- KRK 10s (439 €)

I was planning to use the sub with the M-Audio AV 40, but if I get one of these, I may as well get something better like a pair of KRK Rokit 5 G3 (the G2 is recommended in the op, I assumed the G3 is at least as good).

What would be the best choice out of these ?

Thank you for your help on this matter.

Oh, and +rep anyway for all the helpful or informative advices so far!


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Golden Diva*
> 
> Thank you again for your advice. I did some research in the meantime and most reviews I could find seem to agree with you on the fact that it is a decent sub for the price.
> 
> Unfortunately, I also heard several users saying that the crossover doesn't work when using the line level (RCA) output of the sub, which is exactly what I would want to do!
> 
> In the end, I decided to raise my budget if it can allow me to get a good setup which actually works with the line level output.
> 
> So, here is my last request before I stop bothering you. I listed below the most interesting subs I could find which are available in my country while not being too expensive for me (though they still cost quite a sum, IMO, and will probably force me to eat pastas for a few weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and having RCA inputs and outputs.
> 
> I recall that the primary usage will be gaming, as well as a little bit of music, and the setup will be connected to my Soundblaster ZxR. I may consider buying a DAC or receiver in the future, as suggested by DarthBaggins and LaBestiaHumana, even though it is still not totally planned at this time.
> 
> Here is the list:
> 
> - Prodipe Pro 10s V2 (298 €)
> 
> - Adam SubF (294 €)
> 
> - Adam Sub7 (325 €)
> 
> - PreSonus Tremblor T8 (329 €)
> 
> - RCF Ayra Ten Sub (369 €)
> 
> - KRK 10s (439 €)
> 
> I was planning to use the sub with the M-Audio AV 40, but if I get one of these, I may as well get something better like a pair of KRK Rokit 5 G3 (the G2 is recommended in the op, I assumed the G3 is at least as good).
> 
> What would be the best choice out of these ?
> 
> Thank you for your help on this matter.
> 
> Oh, and +rep anyway for all the helpful or informative advices so far!


They will all be generally good since they're studio subs. And with anything audio related there are diminishing gains the more you spend. A 300 euro sub will sound great to you, then you spend 500 euros and it may not be much better. So choose what's more according to your budget. Also since they're studio subs made for music they won't go down very low as other subs in that price range and have a punchier sound.
In the US for around $500 (~450 euros) and up you start getting in the true subwoofer range. If you can get a good deal on the SVS PB-1000 or SB1000 then that would be a better purchase for your listening needs and available in Europe with low level input and outputs. The Audioengine S8 would be a good choice too.

Also the Presonus will require TRS to RCA mono adapters on the output side.


----------



## ThunderGod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi*
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> Yeah, it's me the not-here-often Audio Editor you guys have mysteriously thought about from time to time.
> 
> Unfortunately, time and a silly thing called 'real life' hasn't been kind to me in regards to my OCN duties however I do not want to really leave it in this suspended state.
> I'm fully aware that this thread needs a massive overhaul and is in progress! This thread will be much more concise than before.
> 
> Really.
> 
> In the meanwhile, if you want me to edit any of the sticky threads in anyway, give me a PM!


looking forward this!


----------



## austinmrs

I have the Hyperx Clound Headset, using the M5A97 Evo R2.0 motherboard.

They have 60 Ω, do you think my motherboar is enough to power them? Would the MSi 970 gaming be better, since it got better audio?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> I have the Hyperx Clound Headset, using the M5A97 Evo R2.0 motherboard.
> 
> They have 60 Ω, do you think my motherboar is enough to power them? Would the MSi 970 gaming be better, since it got better audio?


I would never advise getting a new motherboard just for an onboard sound chip. If anything, get a sound card. Though if your HyperX sounds fine and gets loud enough, you don't need one.


----------



## LinkPro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> I have the Hyperx Clound Headset, using the M5A97 Evo R2.0 motherboard.
> 
> They have 60 Ω, do you think my motherboar is enough to power them? Would the MSi 970 gaming be better, since it got better audio?


Onboard audio has got a lot better these days. Either stay with it or spend $400+ to really notice a difference, especially for something like the cloud.


----------



## austinmrs

Thanks for the help









Also, The g4me one vs the g4me zero? One is open stage, the other is not. The zero have 150 ohms, the one got 50ohms

What you recommend?


----------



## Golden Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> They will all be generally good since they're studio subs. And with anything audio related there are diminishing gains the more you spend. A 300 euro sub will sound great to you, then you spend 500 euros and it may not be much better. So choose what's more according to your budget. Also since they're studio subs made for music they won't go down very low as other subs in that price range and have a punchier sound.
> In the US for around $500 (~450 euros) and up you start getting in the true subwoofer range. If you can get a good deal on the SVS PB-1000 or SB1000 then that would be a better purchase for your listening needs and available in Europe with low level input and outputs. The Audioengine S8 would be a good choice too.
> 
> Also the Presonus will require TRS to RCA mono adapters on the output side.


Thanks man!
The SVS PB-1000 and SB-1000 are a little bit too expensive for me at the moment (500 $ translates to 500 € here by the way







).
However, I was able to find the Audioengine S8 on Amazon for 270 €, which is fine for me.

I'll think about that until tomorrow and then pull the trigger for the KRK Rokit RP5 G3 (or RP6 depending on what's available) + Audioengine S8. Hope they will work well together.

+rep


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I'm curious, what headphones do you guys think are the best for something like CS-GO if price wasnt a problem?

I also have a serious question, the cushion pad thing on the inside of the DT 880s (the one over the driver its self) can that be removed to clean or replace it or is it fixed in place?

Need to replace the pads on my heaphones and wouldnt mind being able to clean or replace that pad to

Thanks


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I'm curious, what headphones do you guys think are the best for something like CS-GO if price wasnt a problem?
> 
> I also have a serious question, the cushion pad thing on the inside of the DT 880s (the one over the driver its self) can that be removed to clean or replace it or is it fixed in place?
> 
> Need to replace the pads on my heaphones and wouldnt mind being able to clean or replace that pad to
> 
> Thanks


Sennheiser HD800's maybe?


----------



## Buttnose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I also have a serious question, the cushion pad thing on the inside of the DT 880s (the one over the driver its self) can that be removed to clean or replace it or is it fixed in place?
> 
> Need to replace the pads on my heaphones and wouldnt mind being able to clean or replace that pad to


If you are talking about the foam piece between the driver and your ears, yes you can replace it. Each of the official replacement pad packs also comes with two of the foam pieces.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Sennheiser HD800's maybe?










Thought so








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buttnose*
> 
> If you are talking about the foam piece between the driver and your ears, yes you can replace it. Each of the official replacement pad packs also comes with two of the foam pieces.


Ah cool thanks, I just wasnt sure seeing every picture of replacement pads shows the foam but the description never mentions it


----------



## Jaydev16

So I'm looking for a dirt cheap headset with a mic. The mike quality matters most, since I don't listen with headphones very often. I live in India; so that complicates stuff quite a bit. Which among the following do you guys think is better for mic quality?
1.http://www.amazon.in/Sharkoon-Rush-ER1-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00OTOJEDM/ref=sr_1_15?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1422968120&sr=1-15
2.http://www.flipkart.com/logitech-g130-wired-headset/p/itmdgw78d9efujn3?pid=ACCDGGRZ7AUZKTFU&srno=b_7&ref=21a7a8de-ca04-430e-8868-5d847e731e50
3.http://www.amazon.in/Lenovo-P950-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00AB9ZU00/ref=sr_1_7?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1422967847&sr=1-7
Thanks! I'm planning to use it to record videos and for voicechat (we have to start somewhere don't we?? ;D).


----------



## chinesekiwi

still working on this lol (when I have the time, a silly thing called real life gets in the way lols).

I will add in a new section called 'software' as well.


----------



## ThornTwist

Hey, I just bought the Klipsch Status R. I have to say the sound is... actually better than my speakers/sub/DAC/pre-amp set up. Makes me want to get better active speakers, but that's besides the point.

I am wondering if I would benefit from buying an amp for my headphones. I would proly want to spend absolutely no more than $100 for an amp.

I ended up paying 97.16 for them with 2 day shipping because of open box. They are currently going through a name change for them I think which I think is what is causing a sale on them currently for 99.99 (60% off).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826779044&cm_re=Klipsch_STATUS-_-26-779-044-_-Product


----------



## atomicus

What would be the best dac/amp combo for a pair of Sennheiser G4ME Zero headphones? I have been looking at the Dragonfly v1.2, Dac Magic Xs and FiiO E17K. These are all within my budget. Any suggestions?


----------



## BlockLike

I recently got the Samson Go Mic

What a cracking little mic that is for the price!

If anyone is looking for a usb mic that provides top notch quality without splurging on price, I can totally recommend it


----------



## dallas1990

i'm putting together a list for a new pc build for a friend. he wants to be able to record music and edit it. i was wondering what would he need in term for a sound card i guess. he wants to be able to hook a "6 pod" i belive he said to it and be able to record his band's music to it. anything roughly around $300 would be great. thanks


----------



## pez

From what I can gather he's talking about a 'Pod' from Line 6 products. If so, it looks like it's a SPDIF connection; which most motherboards have. However if he's really serious into quality and production quality, then a dedicated sound card would be good. @Totally Dubbed just mentioned a really good video card and gave a small review in the Headphone & Earphone club (tagged him so he'll hopefully chime in). In my experience, I've really enjoyed the TiHD, though it's discontinued as a new product, and the ASUS STX cards have the interface/connection as well.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> From what I can gather he's talking about a 'Pod' from Line 6 products. If so, it looks like it's a SPDIF connection; which most motherboards have. However if he's really serious into quality and production quality, then a dedicated sound card would be good. @Totally Dubbed just mentioned a really good video card and gave a small review in the Headphone & Earphone club (tagged him so he'll hopefully chime in). In my experience, I've really enjoyed the TiHD, though it's discontinued as a new product, and the ASUS STX cards have the interface/connection as well.


The Creative ZxR - sensational, especially if you're into recording - has dedicated input for recording itself - optical in/out + RCA.

A pic from my Instagram:


----------



## dallas1990

Awesome thanks guys


----------



## DarthBaggins

Wish I had an optical port on my receiver but I can settle for rca lol. I might be taking a closer look myself at getting the ZxR so I can run rva vs 3.5 to rca

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> Wish I had an optical port on my receiver but I can settle for rca lol. I might be taking a closer look myself at getting the ZxR so I can run rva vs 3.5 to rca
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's how I'm running it atm to my receiver - it's a funny one, as I'm using all their included wires:
Denon X500 receiver -> RCA to male 3.5mm -> 3.5mm female to male RCA -> ZxR
Speakers sound fantastic via it - slightly better than:
X500 -> Optical -> Motherboard
or
X500 -> Optical -> ZxR


----------



## DarthBaggins

I was running mobo to 3.5->RCA adapter cable to my rotel pre amp. Would definitely prefer to run straight rca from the pc to preamp

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> I was running mobo to 3.5->RCA adapter cable to my rotel pre amp. Would definitely prefer to run straight rca from the pc to preamp
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You could do easily - I'm just using the cables that were included.


----------



## Ziglez

This is one of the hardest decisions i've made in life. I just don't know what to get. Can someone please make my life easier and just decide for me.
I'm looking for speakers for movies and music, Most the time ill be using headphones as i'm on skype/ts with people.
My budget is around $350aud, i've looked at the Audioengine 2+. but heard they're not the best for movies.
This is just for a room, and ill be sitting at my desk.

Edit: Thought id add that i don't have a dac or amp, just a xonar stx sound card i got off a mate.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ziglez*
> 
> This is one of the hardest decisions i've made in life. I just don't know what to get. Can someone please make my life easier and just decide for me.
> I'm looking for speakers for movies and music, Most the time ill be using headphones as i'm on skype/ts with people.
> My budget is around $350aud, i've looked at the Audioengine 2+. but heard they're not the best for movies.
> This is just for a room, and ill be sitting at my desk.
> 
> Edit: Thought id add that i don't have a dac or amp, just a xonar stx sound card i got off a mate.


Audioengine A2+ lol.

Dat Bamboo


----------



## xfachx

Hey guys, figured I would ask here cause you guys know what the deal is. My PC headset (G330) recently cracked and I am looking for headphones now. I did some research and I learned about gaming headsets being crap compared to proper set of headphones and a simple mic attachment.

So my budget would be 100ish max. I understand that a set of open headphones are ideal for gaming given that positional audio is better than in a closed set. But I don't think I will be comfortable letting all the noise out while playing games and someone else trying to focus in the same room. Are closed sets really that bad for positional audio (specifically in FPS games)?

I have been looking at at the ATH-M40x (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/75b2f282c93a7651/). Would these work for gaming purposes? Anyone have a set that could chime in?


----------



## spookyneo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xfachx*
> 
> Hey guys, figured I would ask here cause you guys know what the deal is. My PC headset (G330) recently cracked and I am looking for headphones now. I did some research and I learned about gaming headsets being crap compared to proper set of headphones and a simple mic attachment.
> 
> So my budget would be 100ish max. I understand that a set of open headphones are ideal for gaming given that positional audio is better than in a closed set. But I don't think I will be comfortable letting all the noise out while playing games and someone else trying to focus in the same room. Are closed sets really that bad for positional audio (specifically in FPS games)?
> 
> I have been looking at at the ATH-M40x (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/75b2f282c93a7651/). Would these work for gaming purposes? Anyone have a set that could chime in?


I own the M40x since Christmas. I use them for gaming and music. They are very light compared to my previous Sennheiser 280 Pro. They are also running less hot (sweat!) than the Sennheiser's.

When it come to sound quality, I use a Denon DN-MC6000 as my primary soundcard for gaming and music. The M40x delivers very good quality. They have a pretty good sound and they seem to have a bit more bass than my Sennheiser. I would say that my Sennheiser were a bit more flat, probably better suited for studio recordings. However, I prefer the Audio Technica. Very good buy. I got them on sale for 80$CAD when they usually sell for 140$CAD


----------



## sirMedicated

Hi all!
A little background, I recently got a Audio-Technica MSR7 and ModMic 4.0 but only have a on-board soundcard with my PC. Which I don't want to use. I have been looking around at options and think a Modi Uber 2 from Schiit would work.

So basically, I want a DAC that will be able to have my headphones, ModMic, and my set of speakers ran through. Is it possible for this to be done? Any reccmomendations for around 100-250 range?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## pez

You would need an amp to pair with the Modi. Also, the only type of thing I've seen that may allow an input pass through is usually an audio interface like the Focusrite line. That's my only caveat about the whole setup I have---running a cord to a completely different place. However, if you have a keyboard with audio pass through, that might help a bit.


----------



## sirMedicated

Thanks for the reply!

I am actually looking at the Magni/Modi stack. So if I get a USB Modi, it doesn't affect the sound on my Mic? Did I understand that correctly. So what can I do to get my ModMic not to sound like white noise?


----------



## xfachx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spookyneo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xfachx*
> 
> Hey guys, figured I would ask here cause you guys know what the deal is. My PC headset (G330) recently cracked and I am looking for headphones now. I did some research and I learned about gaming headsets being crap compared to proper set of headphones and a simple mic attachment.
> 
> So my budget would be 100ish max. I understand that a set of open headphones are ideal for gaming given that positional audio is better than in a closed set. But I don't think I will be comfortable letting all the noise out while playing games and someone else trying to focus in the same room. Are closed sets really that bad for positional audio (specifically in FPS games)?
> 
> I have been looking at at the ATH-M40x (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/75b2f282c93a7651/). Would these work for gaming purposes? Anyone have a set that could chime in?
> 
> 
> 
> I own the M40x since Christmas. I use them for gaming and music. They are very light compared to my previous Sennheiser 280 Pro. They are also running less hot (sweat!) than the Sennheiser's.
> 
> When it come to sound quality, I use a Denon DN-MC6000 as my primary soundcard for gaming and music. The M40x delivers very good quality. They have a pretty good sound and they seem to have a bit more bass than my Sennheiser. I would say that my Sennheiser were a bit more flat, probably better suited for studio recordings. However, I prefer the Audio Technica. Very good buy. I got them on sale for 80$CAD when they usually sell for 140$CAD
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Ordered it and hopefully we will see in a few days! Appreciate the feedback!


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sirMedicated*
> 
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I am actually looking at the Magni/Modi stack. So if I get a USB Modi, it doesn't affect the sound on my Mic? Did I understand that correctly. So what can I do to get my ModMic not to sound like white noise?


Yes, that will just basically act as an audio out (i.e. audio going to your headphones or speakers). Your mic input will still be working and available so long as you haven't' disabled your onboard sound or disabled your mic in your Audio Control Panel.

As for the white noise on your mic...

What type of settings do you have with your onboard audio? There MIGHT be something in your settings you could do to reduce that, but I think ultimately, a sound card would be a better option. It can also be an alternative to the Modi. I've heard the Modi (just the original) and thought it compared very well to my X-Fi Titanium HD. However, they no longer make that card and your chances of getting them are limited to finding them secondhand/used. There are current soundcards out that match the quality, Im' sure, I'm just not aware of them. @Totally Dubbed just reviewed a more recent sound card and weighed in on his thoughts compared to a traditional DAC. Hopefully he can chime in with a few words to help you out.

Finding a dedicated sound card, and pairing it with a Magni or other amp would be a good alternative, and would also allow you to have the convenience of a 'DAC' and a mic input that's going to most likely be a lot better.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yes, that will just basically act as an audio out (i.e. audio going to your headphones or speakers). Your mic input will still be working and available so long as you haven't' disabled your onboard sound or disabled your mic in your Audio Control Panel.
> 
> As for the white noise on your mic...
> 
> What type of settings do you have with your onboard audio? There MIGHT be something in your settings you could do to reduce that, but I think ultimately, a sound card would be a better option. It can also be an alternative to the Modi. I've heard the Modi (just the original) and thought it compared very well to my X-Fi Titanium HD. However, they no longer make that card and your chances of getting them are limited to finding them secondhand/used. There are current soundcards out that match the quality, Im' sure, I'm just not aware of them. @Totally Dubbed just reviewed a more recent sound card and weighed in on his thoughts compared to a traditional DAC. Hopefully he can chime in with a few words to help you out.
> 
> Finding a dedicated sound card, and pairing it with a Magni or other amp would be a good alternative, and would also allow you to have the convenience of a 'DAC' and a mic input that's going to most likely be a lot better.


White noise of mics can be fixed with a cheap USB soundcard. Like Totally Dubbed did with his modmic.
Long story short: Onboard mic inputs suck and create alot of noise. Use a $2 soundcard to fix it.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> White noise of mics can be fixed with a cheap USB soundcard. Like Totally Dubbed did with his modmic.
> Long story short: Onboard mic inputs suck and create alot of noise. Use a $2 soundcard to fix it.


That's a really good think to note. I didn't think about that...and it's funny because I even watched the video a while back when looking at the ModMic. That would be a really good choice if you decided on ultimately going with the Modi/Magni combo.


----------



## FreeElectron

I am trying to decide on a Mic.

I want

Clarity (non congested sounding)
Background noise cancellation.
Easy to install (Plug and Play)
Being directional (sound is only registered from one direction) is a plus. or Directional control.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yes, that will just basically act as an audio out (i.e. audio going to your headphones or speakers). Your mic input will still be working and available so long as you haven't' disabled your onboard sound or disabled your mic in your Audio Control Panel.
> 
> As for the white noise on your mic...
> 
> What type of settings do you have with your onboard audio? There MIGHT be something in your settings you could do to reduce that, but I think ultimately, a sound card would be a better option. It can also be an alternative to the Modi. I've heard the Modi (just the original) and thought it compared very well to my X-Fi Titanium HD. However, they no longer make that card and your chances of getting them are limited to finding them secondhand/used. There are current soundcards out that match the quality, Im' sure, I'm just not aware of them. @Totally Dubbed just reviewed a more recent sound card and weighed in on his thoughts compared to a traditional DAC. Hopefully he can chime in with a few words to help you out.
> 
> Finding a dedicated sound card, and pairing it with a Magni or other amp would be a good alternative, and would also allow you to have the convenience of a 'DAC' and a mic input that's going to most likely be a lot better.


The ZxR I presume - if so - google my name and the ZxR for my full review


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> The ZxR I presume - if so - google my name and the ZxR for my full review


Yeah I thought that was it, but was kinda in a rush to post before I got busy again. Thanks for dropping by TD







.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah I thought that was it, but was kinda in a rush to post before I got busy again. Thanks for dropping by TD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


no worries!


----------



## Alex44789

Heya All,
Until recently I have been using Logitech 5.1 x530's never even used all of the speakers on the damn things.
So now that I have decided to clean them up and get rid of them I need some new speakers.

I have been looking in the section of OCN for the past couple of hours and couldn't really piece together what it is I should be purchasing as the title says I have a $400 budget(AU) and don't really see the point in getting anything above 3.1 although you can try to convince me if it is worth it, so what do I Purchase?!

Currently have no Sound Card seems most people say that helps, and no idea on what e.t.c items to purchase, e.g DAC's and AMP's Would generally like to control the volume for the desk but if need be can control it from the computer.

On another note is it possible to run my headset audio and speaker audio and switch when i feel like listening from either one?

I generally play casual games such as LoL or action based not to many FPS games anymore, although GTA V will be played plenty upon release date.

So any help would be greatly appreciated and if I missed anything that would help you guys in helping me, please tell me









Alex.


----------



## twerk

Can anyone recommend me some cheap active 2.0 speakers around £100? Willing to go a bit higher or lower if necessary. I'd like something flat-ish but airing towards a V shaped frequency response. So accurate yet fun to listen to.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Can anyone recommend me some cheap active 2.0 speakers around £100? Willing to go a bit higher or lower if necessary. I'd like something flat-ish but airing towards a V shaped frequency response. So accurate yet fun to listen to.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Here are some recommendations, personally I have only used the Solo8C:
Microlab Solo6C
Solo8C (half-joke, too big)
Edifier R1600T III
R1800T III
I wish the shipping from UK to Scandinavia wasn't so expensive. IIRC the shipping costs for Solo8C was £30...

Swans M10 has been popping up in stores around Europe but didn't find any near UK.


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Here are some recommendations, personally I have only used the Solo8C:
> Microlab Solo6C
> Solo8C (half-joke, too big)
> Edifier R1600T III
> R1800T III
> I wish the shipping from UK to Scandinavia wasn't so expensive. IIRC the shipping costs for Solo8C was £30...
> 
> Swans M10 has been popping up in stores around Europe but didn't find any near UK.


Thank you! Are any monitor solutions worth looking at? Like the M-Audio BX5 D2, AV 40 etc.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> Thank you! Are any monitor solutions worth looking at? Like the M-Audio BX5 D2, AV 40 etc.


Of course the monitor solutions are worth a look. BX5D2 is pretty good from what I hear, but isn't £150 way over £100?


----------



## twerk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Of course the monitor solutions are worth a look. BX5D2 is pretty good from what I hear, but isn't £150 way over £100?


I can get the BX5 D2 for £126, which I can stretch to. If the AV 40 is nearly as good then I could just get that.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twerk*
> 
> I can get the BX5 D2 for £126, which I can stretch to. If the AV 40 is nearly as good then I could just get that.


IMO the BX5 D2 is the better option.
My prefered option in that price range for studio monitors is this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alesis-M1-Active-520-Monitors/dp/B000EJTXZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428661770&sr=8-1&keywords=alesis+m1+active+520

truly great speakers for what they cost


----------



## FreeElectron

I am interested in getting a microphone for chatting and probably voice over.
I want it to be dynamic cardioid mic.
It will be placed around a half a meter in front of me on the desk.
What do you guys recommend? Which accessories to get with it?
I have been checking the *ATR2100-USB*. What do you think?


----------



## Hawawaa

Just ordered, Asus Xonar DG to replace my old sound card that died PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series. Thanks for the info!


----------



## coldroll

That's nice to hear when the sound card arrives I'd recommend you use the Xonar dg custom uni drivers for a much better experience and less crappy drivers than the official one's.

http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## Hawawaa

lol should of ordered the DGX derp, assuming that link is also for DGX too? (and thanks for the heads up)


----------



## Draulius

I was actually looking at the Schiit Fulla and the Magni 2 & Modi 2 "Schiit Stack" to upgrade from my on-board audio. Now let's get something straight, I'm not somebody who often listens to high quality music. In fact most of what I do on the computer is gaming. So this poses the question, would it be worth it for me to get the Schiit Stack over the Schiit Fulla, or is the Fulla good enough for my needs?

I plan to get a pair of AD900X's and hope to get the most out of them in terms of sound quality. But I am also the kind of person who wouldn't spend a lot of money for a small difference. But if the Schiit Stack is significantly better over the Fulla then I will get them, which is what I want to know.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.


----------



## Hawawaa

Omg everythings hooked up and running great! Took a min to get my mic going but omg everything sounds wonderful. Thank you!


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawawaa*
> 
> Omg everythings hooked up and running great! Took a min to get my mic going but omg everything sounds wonderful. Thank you!


I recommend to use XonarSwitch with the Xonar cards. Godlike control over the settings and all the useless stuff has been removed from the UI. And the equalizer is actually usable unlike in the original control panel.


----------



## coldroll

Cool I didn't even see the xonar switch on the same site! Also Hawawaa great to hear you're happy with the sound card I know I was too when I first got mine three years ago.


----------



## Kanivakil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ziglez*
> 
> This is one of the hardest decisions i've made in life.


ROTFLMAO. I was like, what a hot girl. Looked up the image. It wasn't a girl at all....









Can someone please help me find a audiophile or good 2.1 speakers for my gaming computer set up? I was considering the Logitech Z623, Harmon Kardon Sounds Sticks III, M-Audio AV 40...too many really; under $200 USD.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kanivakil*
> 
> ROTFLMAO. I was like, what a hot girl. Looked up the image. It wasn't a girl at all....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone please help me find a audiophile or good 2.1 speakers for my gaming computer set up? I was considering the Logitech Z623, Harmon Kardon Sounds Sticks III, M-Audio AV 40...too many really; under $200 USD.


Do you have any size restrictions?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kanivakil*
> 
> Can someone please help me find a audiophile or good 2.1 speakers for my gaming computer set up? I was considering the Logitech Z623, Harmon Kardon Sounds Sticks III, M-Audio AV 40...too many really; under $200 USD.


This setup goes about $20 above your price range, but it's well worth it and has a sub.

http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-50Wx2-TDA7492-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00F0H8TOC/ SMSL SA50 for an amp or the SMSL Mini5 which also includes a headphone amp, but does run hot. http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-TDA7492-Digital-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B00NMBISBW/

Then for the speakers the Insignia NS-SP213. $50 at Best Buy right now. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-5-1-4-2-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black/8959098.p Slightly cheaper if you buy the open box or check out your local stores and see if they have cheaper open box ones.

And finally the Dayton Audio SUB-800 for $99 shipped. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-800-8-80-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-627

Just get some speaker wire and you're good to go.

Alternatively you can probably buy a decent sub for less locally on CL or something. You can buy a cheap Lepai if you want to have everything under $200 too.


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Is the Asus Xonar DG better than the Supreme FX that came with the Gene Vll?


----------



## benjamen50

Is there a noticable better audio quality when upgrading from Asus Xonar DG to Creative Soundblaster Z? (I'm getting the OEM, barebones, system builder version).


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> Is there a noticable better audio quality when upgrading from Asus Xonar DG to Creative Soundblaster Z? (I'm getting the OEM, barebones, system builder version).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Is the Asus Xonar DG better than the Supreme FX that came with the Gene Vll?


I doubt there will be a significant difference, if any.


----------



## williamdabastrd

I currently have a Xonar DG sound card, M-Audio AV50 speakers, and a set of Audio Technica AD900Xs that I plug in via the front port of the AV50s. I have a modmic for gaming right now and am looking to get the AT2020 for when I start streaming/recording non-game material and was wondering if I should get the USB version or if I should invest into a DAC (looking at either the Scarlett 2i2 which a local store has on sale or the Schiit Modi). Any suggestions?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *williamdabastrd*
> 
> I currently have a Xonar DG sound card, M-Audio AV50 speakers, and a set of Audio Technica AD900Xs that I plug in via the front port of the AV50s. I have a modmic for gaming right now and am looking to get the AT2020 for when I start streaming/recording non-game material and was wondering if I should get the USB version or if I should invest into a DAC (looking at either the Scarlett 2i2 which a local store has on sale or the Schiit Modi). Any suggestions?


You should go with the 2i2 which is a solid DAC and will take a mic input. Kill two birds with one stone.


----------



## atarione

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> You should go with the 2i2 which is a solid DAC and will take a mic input. Kill two birds with one stone.


I'll 2nd the 2i2 suggestion... I actually use one at home here for my Sterling Audio ST55 microphone ...the 2i2 is actually quite nice sounding as a DAC also and is a great option for those running studio monitors or other powered speakers with balanced inputs.


----------



## lurker2501

I have Superlux HD668B and Asus Xonar DG. What impedance do I need to set in options for best results in competitive FPS?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> I have Superlux HD668B and Asus Xonar DG. What impedance do I need to set in options for best results in competitive FPS?


I think the 668B are 58ohms so whatever setting matches.


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I doubt there will be a significant difference, if any.


Thanks REP+


----------



## williamdabastrd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> You should go with the 2i2 which is a solid DAC and will take a mic input. Kill two birds with one stone.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarione*
> 
> I'll 2nd the 2i2 suggestion... I actually use one at home here for my Sterling Audio ST55 microphone ...the 2i2 is actually quite nice sounding as a DAC also and is a great option for those running studio monitors or other powered speakers with balanced inputs.


Thanks for the suggestions! Looks like it is the 2i2 I'll be going with! Very happy with every suggestion from OCN so far... I can't imagine how much more ignorant on computer hardware I'd be without OCN haha

+REP


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *williamdabastrd*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions! Looks like it is the 2i2 I'll be going with! Very happy with every suggestion from OCN so far... I can't imagine how much more ignorant on computer hardware I'd be without OCN haha
> 
> +REP


I did hear the sound of 2i2 in a store, it sounded pretty good. When I bought monitor speakers not using a DAC, it sounded horrible.


----------



## taowulf

After about 10 years I am finally going to get rid of this Ancient Altec Lansing 5.1 system I have. These arrived today -



Alesis Elevate 5 powered speakers will be here on Monday according to UPS, on Wednesday according to Amazon. I am hoping for Monday. I need to do some modifications to my monitor stand as there is only about 4 inches from the left side of the stand to my case. Foam isolation and all my cables are already here and waiting.

I almost went with a Presonus Eris E5 package I found that included a set of AKG K44 headphones for $299, but backed out at the last second and switched back to the Alesis Elevates instead. I will probably kick myself later for not taking the deal , but oh well.

Edited to add. of course, they are hooked up even though I can't connect the speakers I have to the Magni 2...and I can't find my 1/8th to 1/4 headphone adapter...lol, I can't use them all weekend!


----------



## Kanivakil

I purchased a "new but unboxed" Klipsch Promedia 2.1 from Ebay and it came used and beaten up. I returned them. The speakers aren't sleek looking. Can someone recommend another set of audiophile speakers for less than $200.00 USD? I'm going to have a 34" 3440x1440 monitor soon and will only have a small amount of space on each side; is there some speaker that are modern and sleek with great quality? I guess I can buy all the parts separately, speakers, sub woofer and amp.

I received an opinion but would like to receive several more from others.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kanivakil*
> 
> I purchased a "new but unboxed" Klipsch Promedia 2.1 from Ebay and it came used and beaten up. I returned them. The speakers aren't sleek looking. Can someone recommend another set of audiophile speakers for less than $200.00 USD? I'm going to have a 34" 3440x1440 monitor soon and will only have a small amount of space on each side; is there some speaker that are modern and sleek with great quality? I guess I can buy all the parts separately, speakers, sub woofer and amp.
> 
> I received an opinion but would like to receive several more from others.


What was wrong with them exactly? Would you have a problem with them if they were new? What counts as modern and sleek, and what does not?

The satellites on the Promedia set are already very small, a big compromise. How much space will there be? Is there not much space at all, or is it just space on the desk? (could you run speakers on stands to the sides of the desk, for example?)


----------



## Kanivakil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> What was wrong with them exactly? Would you have a problem with them if they were new? What counts as modern and sleek, and what does not?
> 
> The satellites on the Promedia set are already very small, a big compromise. How much space will there be? Is there not much space at all, or is it just space on the desk? (could you run speakers on stands to the sides of the desk, for example?)


I should buy the Asus 34" ROG 3440x1440 (when released) monitor and figure how much space I have left. My glass desk is only 47" across. I had the promedia in my hands. They're pretty large and chunky. I don't have a lot of room. Perhaps with this picture you can give me an idea what to do.



Those el cheapos are a little less than 3" across. And that is a 23.6" monitor.


----------



## mikeaj

That counts as petite. The Promedia's subwoofer is more the size of a (small-mid sized) audiophile or pro audio bookshelf speaker or studio monitor.

If you can go without lower bass and subbass, the Audioengine A2 / A2+ is about that price and is 4" wide.

There's the cheaper Micca MB42X (passive) or PB42X (active), which is 5.8" wide and is one of the smaller designs that isn't as anemic down low. You could technically get floorstanding speaker stands to put on the sides of the desk, but I think we're throwing sleek out the window? Actually, with any of the speakers, you want the things aiming at your ears and not your chest, and some elevation and decoupling from the desk would be ideal too... not to mention some distance from the wall.

A number of more consumer audio-centric devices may be smaller, but it's not like they can change the laws of physics.

In any case, there are a lot of tradeoffs and compromises to consider.


----------



## Kanivakil

If I wasn't going for a $1,299 monitor and 980 Ti Sli I'd feel comfortable spending on speaker but I'm also going to upgrade CPU and motherboard, oth
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> That counts as petite. The Promedia's subwoofer is more the size of a (small-mid sized) audiophile or pro audio bookshelf speaker or studio monitor.
> 
> If you can go without lower bass and subbass, the Audioengine A2 / A2+ is about that price and is 4" wide.
> 
> There's the cheaper Micca MB42X (passive) or PB42X (active), which is 5.8" wide and is one of the smaller designs that isn't as anemic down low. You could technically get floorstanding speaker stands to put on the sides of the desk, but I think we're throwing sleek out the window? Actually, with any of the speakers, you want the things aiming at your ears and not your chest, and some elevation and decoupling from the desk would be ideal too... not to mention some distance from the wall.
> 
> A number of more consumer audio-centric devices may be smaller, but it's not like they can change the laws of physics.
> 
> In any case, there are a lot of tradeoffs and compromises to consider.


Yeah, that's the other problem too is they don't make stands for the speaker and people recommend to build my own but I'm not a carpenter and I don't have the tools. If I didn't spend $1,299 and purchase 2 980 Ti, a new motherboard (Asus Maximus Hero and a new CPU), I'd feel comfortable spending more on speakers, but I've spent enough. Perhaps I should just mount the speakers to the wall so they will be leveled with my ears.


----------



## benjamen50

I'm planning to run a Soundblaster Z with DT770 250ohm. Is this a fine setup?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I'm planning to run a Soundblaster Z with DT770 250ohm. Is this a fine setup?


The 80 ohm models would do better out of the Soundblaster Z. The Z's headphone stage isn't the most powerful.


----------



## benjamen50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> The 80 ohm models would do better out of the Soundblaster Z. The Z's headphone stage isn't the most powerful.


I'll get the 80 ohm model and see how that goes.

I have another question. How does a schiit modi 2 uber work with soundblaster Z soundcard and dt770?


----------



## iARDAs

I am willing to buy a Soundblaster Z.

Could you please recommend me a good headphone for that? ($100 max)

Or should I just go ahead and purchase an Astro A40 for $200?


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I'll get the 80 ohm model and see how that goes.
> 
> I have another question. How does a schiit modi 2 uber work with soundblaster Z soundcard and dt770?


It's a DAC. So you're basically transferring a digital signal to another digital signal. It's sorta pointless to have both connected. It will be from the soundcard to the Modi via toslink/optical cable. It may clean up the sound a bit, twice (digital signal from PC to soundcard, to Modi.) But you also don't have an external volume control with just the DAC. You would need a headphone amp or a preamp with volume control.

If you wanted to go with the Modi then I'd sell the soundcard and get the Asgard for the amp as well.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I am willing to buy a Soundblaster Z.
> 
> Could you please recommend me a good headphone for that? ($100 max)
> 
> Or should I just go ahead and purchase an Astro A40 for $200?


What are your usage preferences?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> What are your usage preferences?


Music but mainly gaming of any kind. Wired is ok. No need for wireless


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Where are you buying from?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Where are you buying from?


Amazon usa preferably.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Amazon usa preferably.


What type of music do you listen to? Did you need a mic?


----------



## faction87

hey guys i got the sennheiser game one headset and the asus xonar dg sound card, an the headset is great the sound card is garbage, nothing but problems and crashs non stop. What do you guys recommend for me to use a sound card that Works? or a Amp or? jus plain integrated audio?


----------



## renji1337

schiit modi 2 coming monday to compliment my schiit magni


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faction87*
> 
> hey guys i got the sennheiser game one headset and the asus xonar dg sound card, an the headset is great the sound card is garbage, nothing but problems and crashs non stop. What do you guys recommend for me to use a sound card that Works? or a Amp or? jus plain integrated audio?


Use these drivers: http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

They're amazing on my Xonar DX


----------



## faction87

dude i was using those drivers before i was told to switch to the asus reg. ones by someone on hree, will they really fix everything? or should i not wastemy time and remove it.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faction87*
> 
> dude i was using those drivers before i was told to switch to the asus reg. ones by someone on hree, will they really fix everything? or should i not wastemy time and remove it.


Asus drivers are notoriously awful for their soundcards, uninstall them and give Unified drivers a shot.


----------



## faction87

already tried unified drivers they give me problems too. im over it..


----------



## Ruok2bu

My speaker is currently a Corsair SP2500 (when i purchased it, i paid over $300). The speaker already has its own amplifier and DSP, would you recommend i go with a sound card (Sound Blaster Zx) or a DAC?

Are these speakers bad? Should i get new ones with a DAC instead?

Frequency response: 35Hz 20kHz +/- 3dB
232 watts total power (measured via FTC "RMS"method)
*Subwoofer*
Dimensions: 18.1 x 10.2 x 11.7 inches (46 x 25.8 x 29.7 cm)
8" 120W (IEC60268-5 24hr continuous rating) subwoofer with durable rubber surround
Fourth-order closed bandpass enclosure design
Bridged dual 60 Watt class-D amplifiers with integrated DSP for 120 Watts of power (measured via FTC "RMS" method)
Ultra-efficient integral power supply with 100V 240V AC input

*Satellites*
Dimensions: 4.25 x 4.7 x 6.25 inches (10.8 x 12 x 15.9 cm)
Type: Unidirectional noise-cancelling condenser with adjustable, rotating boom
Impedance: 2.2k Ohms
Frequency Response: 100Hz to 10kHz
Sensitivity: -37dB (+/-3dB)

In another forum, someone suggested i get an Audioquest DragonFly. How does it compare to the Schiit Bifrost ?


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ruok2bu*
> 
> My speaker is currently a Corsair SP2500 (when i purchased it, i paid over $300). The speaker already has its own amplifier and DSP, would you recommend i go with a sound card (Sound Blaster Zx) or a DAC?
> 
> Are these speakers bad? Should i get new ones with a DAC instead?
> 
> Frequency response: 35Hz 20kHz +/- 3dB
> 232 watts total power (measured via FTC "RMS"method)
> *Subwoofer*
> Dimensions: 18.1 x 10.2 x 11.7 inches (46 x 25.8 x 29.7 cm)
> 8" 120W (IEC60268-5 24hr continuous rating) subwoofer with durable rubber surround
> Fourth-order closed bandpass enclosure design
> Bridged dual 60 Watt class-D amplifiers with integrated DSP for 120 Watts of power (measured via FTC "RMS" method)
> Ultra-efficient integral power supply with 100V 240V AC input
> 
> *Satellites*
> Dimensions: 4.25 x 4.7 x 6.25 inches (10.8 x 12 x 15.9 cm)
> Type: Unidirectional noise-cancelling condenser with adjustable, rotating boom
> Impedance: 2.2k Ohms
> Frequency Response: 100Hz to 10kHz
> Sensitivity: -37dB (+/-3dB)
> 
> In another forum, someone suggested i get an Audioquest DragonFly. How does it compare to the Schiit Bifrost ?


Hi again. Yes, the Corsair SP2500 is quite bad, from a musicality standpoint. As you have probably noticed, they are great for explosions and gunshots but not so fantastic for music. The $99 Klipsch Promedia sound better IMO at 1/3 the price.

Schiit's Bifrost can cost about $400 if you add Uber Analog and USB 2.0 to it, which I would recommend if you're going to buy it. For the same price as a pimped Bifrost you can get a TEAC UD 301 which is more respected in audiophile circles as a superior product. The Bifrost is better sounding than the Dragonfly, and the 301 is better sounding (in most people's opinion) than the Bifrost. But, if you are using garbage (no offense) computer speakers you will never notice the difference.

I would suggest that you consider swapping your Corsair SP2500 out for a pair of studio monitors. You're in Canada... Why don't you head to a Long & McQuade store and pick up a pair of powered studio monitors? Yorkville Sound (A Canadian company based in Pickering) makes GREAT sounding studio monitors that, for about $180-240/speaker will rival HIFI speaker/amp combinations approaching $1200 in some cases.

Depending on how much bass you want, you would want to pick up either the Yorkville YSM 5 or the YSM6. The 6 has an inch larger bass/midrange driver than the 502 for added punch. It also has a higher wattage built in amplifier.

Even with decent speakers like that, you don't need a great DAC. DACs over $300 are really more geared towards somebody with a $2000+ HIFI setup, not a guy with a $400 pair of speakers. Pick up the Dragonfly OR (slightly) even better, the ARCAM rPAC (you can get it at Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto or many other HIFI shops in Canada) and a pair of YSM5 or 6, and pick up a 3.5mm TRS to dual mono 6.3mm TS cable. Or if you have the rPAC, which WILL sound better with the YSMs (I've tested all this stuff btw), pick up an RCA to 6.3mm dual mono TS cable. You can get all that at Long and McQuade.

Or if you want better quality cables (L&M is like $14 cables kind of thing) go on Ebay. Hosa makes a decent cheap cable. Better than what you get at L&M.

If you really want some truly top notch stuff, instead of spending what would be about $480+299 (almost $800) on the rPAC and YSM6, you could, for $900, step up to the SPECTACULAR (and I do not use that term lightly) KEF X300A. You can get them at Planet Of Sound in Toronto. Those are truly fantastic speakers that will blow your mind. They have a built in DAC. They are based on KEF's Q series speakers (I own a pair of Q300's) and they sound really great. They're also the coolest looking computer speakers out there.

GREAT:









SLIGHTLY LESS GREAT:









BTW you should really consider a couple of software tweaks for your PC if you're going to take audio seriously. Check out Fidelizer and Jriver media player. You should also run ASIO, either as a blanket solution, or just through JRiver. If you ever get "tha stuff" PM me and I'll explain.


----------



## aksthem1

The speakers are decent, not bad, but decent. Cheap thin plastic enclosures, but on the plus side they are a 2 way bi amplified speaker with a 3" driver and 1" tweeter. If you want to take advantage of a DAC then I would purchase better speakers. The Dragonfly is a good DAC it's cheap and asynchronous, but the Schiit Bitfrost is a tad better even if you aren't using high res music. I used the Dragonfly for about a bit before I got my Aune T1 and with its compact size it was a contender. Probably on par, but the tube gave a wider sound stage.

On the plus side I know how you can possibly save some money and keep your sub, if you don't mind a bit of modding and have the desk space for bigger speakers. The SP2500 uses a 4 pin CPU power connector for the speakers. You can up cut the existing wires or build your own. If you decided to build your own they are fairly cheap, just make sure you get the pins for them. I made a diagram on how to build the speaker wire. You only need to use 2 connectors and it's for the amp output. The ones for the speakers will be bare. 16awg wire is recommended.










Due to the nature of the system if you were to cross the speaker wires from the high range and mid range you might get hissing and pops. Bi amplified systems don't play nice like that sometimes. If it was just a 2 way crossover then that wouldn't it a problem. So you would need speakers that are capable of bi amplifying. Such as the Energy RC-10, Cambridge Audio S30, Polk RTI A1, some of the Wharfedale Diamond speakers and others I just can't think of them at the top of my head. Again that's only a suggestion if you want to try that, but you wouldn't need a new amp or sub. Plus a huge upgrade to the teeny Corsair speakers.


----------



## mistersprinkles

^HAHA

Ya lets hook decent speakers up to a piece of garbage Class D amp inside a garbage subwoofer and have mismatched satellites and sub. That'll sound AWESOME!


----------



## pez

Yeah, I'm enjoying my Bifrost Uber a bunch. It was more than what was necessary for me, but it's something that's going to last me and be used until it dies.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I'm enjoying my Bifrost Uber a bunch. It was more than what was necessary for me, but it's something that's going to last me and be used until it dies.


You'll be waiting a loooong time for it to die if you treat it right.

Make sure you unplug it during electrical storms.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> You'll be waiting a loooong time for it to die if you treat it right.
> 
> Make sure you unplug it during electrical storms.


Yeah, I have mine connected to a UPS, and I have my Asgard 2 sitting on top of it with some slightly taller feet so that heat doesn't pose a huge problem. Asgard 2 has been with me through two different houses now and this it is 2 years old now.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I have mine connected to a UPS, and I have my Asgard 2 sitting on top of it with some slightly taller feet so that heat doesn't pose a huge problem. Asgard 2 has been with me through two different houses now and this it is 2 years old now.


You have some decent schiit.









Seriously though, even highly mediocre quality sound equipment lasts a long time if you treat it right. My Klipsch iFi, which a friend has now, is 10 years old and going strong.

My old boss has some speakers that he bought in 1970 and they are good as new. They were like the equivalent to 20 grand in today's money, so you would hope they would be.


----------



## pez

Yeah. I love my Schiit







. It's treated me well, and I've been 100% happy with my humble (in terms of other setups) setup







.


----------



## taowulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah. I love my Schiit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's treated me well, and I've been 100% happy with my humble (in terms of other setups) setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I am with you on that one. I had a Altec Lansing 5.1 setup for over a decade and the Schiit Modi 2/Magni2 and Alesis Elevate speakers I replaced that POS with sounds tons better. I used to strain to hear dialog when watch TV and Movies on my PC and that is no longer a problem at all. Music sounds great too. It doesn't take much to upgrade over "computer speakers" and the setup I ended up with is humble, but I am happy with it.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taowulf*
> 
> I am with you on that one. I had a Altec Lansing 5.1 setup for over a decade and the Schiit Modi 2/Magni2 and Alesis Elevate speakers I replaced that POS with sounds tons better. I used to strain to hear dialog when watch TV and Movies on my PC and that is no longer a problem at all. Music sounds great too. It doesn't take much to upgrade over "computer speakers" and the setup I ended up with is humble, but I am happy with it.


Good to hear you're happy with your schiit and your speakers.

If you ever have $3000+ handy, get your hands on a Yamaha AS801 DAC/AMP and a pair of KEF LS50 speakers and a REL subwoofer and Audioquest Rocket 88 speaker cable. It'll blow your freakin' mind, man.


----------



## Noviets

Does anyone know the best method to stop "Vibration" from traveling up the tripod desk stand of an AT2020 USB+?


Spoiler: Image







My desk is against a wall, my tower also sits on the desk, so the vibration from my case seems to be traveling up the mini desk tripod. I've put some foam under it to reduce it, but it's still quite noticeable. It's basically dead silent when I hold it.

I saw this 

Looks to be exactly what I need, does anyone else have the AT2020 on their desk? Anyone had experience with that shock mount?


----------



## MicroCat

Shock mount will help. A shock mount mounted on a floor stand would be even better.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> Good to hear you're happy with your schiit and your speakers.
> 
> If you ever have $3000+ handy, get your hands on a Yamaha AS801 DAC/AMP and a pair of KEF LS50 speakers and a REL subwoofer and Audioquest Rocket 88 speaker cable. It'll blow your freakin' mind, man.


Don't waste your money on that speaker cable, just get some good quality basic single conducter copper wire.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Don't waste your money on that speaker cable, just get some good quality basic single conducter copper wire.


^ This

I personally subscribe to this:

_"Speaker wire is a passive electrical component described by its electrical impedance, Z. The impedance can be broken up into three properties which determine its performance: the real part of the impedance, or the resistance, and the two imaginary components of the impedance: capacitance and inductance. The ideal speaker wire has no resistance, capacitance, or inductance. The shorter and thicker a wire is, the lower is its resistance, as the electrical resistance of a wire is proportional to its length and inversely proportional to its cross-sectional area (except superconductors). The wire's resistance has the greatest effect on its performance."_

Source:

1. http://www.procosound.com/download/whitepapers/Understanding%20Speaker%20Cables.pdf

2. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3qMN3lB0odUJ:www.roger-russell.com/wire.htm+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noviets*
> 
> Does anyone know the best method to stop "Vibration" from traveling up the tripod desk stand of an AT2020 USB+?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My desk is against a wall, my tower also sits on the desk, so the vibration from my case seems to be traveling up the mini desk tripod. I've put some foam under it to reduce it, but it's still quite noticeable. It's basically dead silent when I hold it.
> 
> I saw this
> 
> Looks to be exactly what I need, does anyone else have the AT2020 on their desk? Anyone had experience with that shock mount?


I'm wondering if that doesn't do it, I'm wondering if it's one of the joints/swivels/pivots that's maybe a bit loose? Not sure if there's a way to tighten or stiffen them. Or if they're really tight, maybe slightly loosen and check it out?


----------



## taowulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Don't waste your money on that speaker cable, just get some good quality basic single conducter copper wire.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> ^ This
> 
> I personally subscribe to this:
> 
> _"Speaker wire is a passive electrical component described by its electrical impedance, Z. The impedance can be broken up into three properties which determine its performance: the real part of the impedance, or the resistance, and the two imaginary components of the impedance: capacitance and inductance. The ideal speaker wire has no resistance, capacitance, or inductance. The shorter and thicker a wire is, the lower is its resistance, as the electrical resistance of a wire is proportional to its length and inversely proportional to its cross-sectional area (except superconductors). The wire's resistance has the greatest effect on its performance."_
> 
> Source:
> 
> 1. http://www.procosound.com/download/whitepapers/Understanding%20Speaker%20Cables.pdf
> 
> 2. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3qMN3lB0odUJ:www.roger-russell.com/wire.htm+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk


There is nothing quite like unsolicited advice for ways to spend $3000 on equipment I don't even have room for.









And speaker wire is just speaker wire, I don't subscribe to the train of thought that "special" wire is required. So I am with the both of you on that one.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Speaker wire is just speaker wire?

The type of conductors used, the type of insulation, the thickness of the conductors, the termination, the soldering of the termination, whether there is gold plating or some other type of plating on the termination or terminals, etc etc all make a massive difference.

I'm using mediocre $800 speakers and when I switched from the 18AWG garbage they came with to some single conductor 12AWG stuff with properly soldered termination the difference was night and day. Like having better speakers.

Anybody who tells you that "a cable is just a cable" is wrong


----------



## silvrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> Speaker wire is just speaker wire?
> 
> The type of conductors used, the type of insulation, the thickness of the conductors, the termination, the soldering of the termination, whether there is gold plating or some other type of plating on the termination or terminals, etc etc all make a massive difference.
> 
> I'm using mediocre $800 speakers and when I switched from the 18AWG garbage they came with to some single conductor 12AWG stuff with properly soldered termination the difference was night and day. Like having better speakers.
> 
> Anybody who tells you that "a cable is just a cable" is a ******.


You are changing way to many variables to say what is changing the sound for you. Have you tried anothe 12 AWG cable side by side with proper controls on the experiment? Likely not, so you can't say it was the termination or the wire build that did it. People really seem to jump to conclusions in audio, and expectation bias plauges a lot of what people report.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silvrr*
> 
> You are changing way to many variables to say what is changing the sound for you. Have you tried anothe 12 AWG cable side by side with proper controls on the experiment? Likely not, so you can't say it was the termination or the wire build that did it. People really seem to jump to conclusions in audio, and expectation bias plauges a lot of what people report.


I dont need to do the experiments myself. Enough other people have done it.


----------



## taowulf

Copper wire is copper wire. Change gauge and it makes a difference. Compare copper to aluminum and it makes a difference. If in an environment where there is lots of EM interference and shielding will only make a difference then.

Anyone that says otherwise may be incorrect. (calling people idiots is not needed)


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taowulf*
> 
> Copper wire is copper wire. Change gauge and it makes a difference. Compare copper to aluminum and it makes a difference. If in an environment where there is lots of EM interference and shielding will only make a difference then.
> 
> Anyone that says otherwise may be incorrect. (calling people idiots is not needed)


Not true what so ever.

There are hundreds if not thousands of variables just in the metallurgy of copper alone.

When a company says that the copper is 99.99% true, you can pretty much call BS on those numbers. Most copper if you are lucky is more like 95-98% pure, and furthermore they do not tell you what the other portion of the metal is.

Is it some cheaper metal to keep the cost down? Is it some type of chemical that they used to remove oxygen? Is it just plain oxygen? Or more likely, is it a combination of all of the above? No one really knows.

Then when you get your mystery metal, you have to pull it into wire. The way you do this can actually effect the way the structure in the metal lines up.

Why do you think companies like audio note pulls all their own wire? Its not a marketing scam because they do not market their wire as such, and the profit margin in doing so is next to 0. Its so that they can control every aspect about the way the wire conducts electricity.

Then you can get into things like solid core wire vs stranded. Do you use flat ribbon cables to take advantage of the skinning effect or not.

Every little thing impacts something else with electronics in general.


----------



## r0llinlacs

There are pretty big differences between speaker wire. Gauge does make a difference. Copper/CCA does make a difference. But not necessarily as big of difference with speaker wire as it is with power wire. Obviously the wire must be thick enough to handle the power, if it's not, you get heat and voltage loss. CCA doesn't carry the voltage as efficiently as copper does. Speaker wire is less about gauge/wire material than it is about noise rejection. Good speaker wire rejects noise and isn't necessarily thick or pure copper. Also, speaker wire doesn't have to be thick because it carries AC voltage, not DC.

But all that aside, I came here because the original post says blah blah stay away from onboard audio it's horrible etc. etc., but I consider myself an audiophile and haven't had any problems with onboard audio in my experience, and PC's have always sounded amazing to me. I mean, what's better about an aftermarket sound card? Better SNR? Big whoop. Different DAC's? Woopty do. I don't see what the justification is, especially for some of the prices I've seen on them.

The onboard audio on my mobo works great. Realtek PuritySound 7.1ch 115db SNR - Direct Drive Technology - EMI shielding cover - PCB isolate shielding.... 24bit 192khz, so what's exactly wrong with my onboard sound?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> There are pretty big differences between speaker wire. Gauge does make a difference. Copper/CCA does make a difference. But not necessarily as big of difference with speaker wire as it is with power wire. Obviously the wire must be thick enough to handle the power, if it's not, you get heat and voltage loss. CCA doesn't carry the voltage as efficiently as copper does. Speaker wire is less about gauge/wire material than it is about noise rejection. Good speaker wire rejects noise and isn't necessarily thick or pure copper. Also, speaker wire doesn't have to be thick because it carries AC voltage, not DC.
> 
> But all that aside, I came here because the original post says blah blah stay away from onboard audio it's horrible etc. etc., but I consider myself an audiophile and haven't had any problems with onboard audio in my experience, and PC's have always sounded amazing to me. I mean, what's better about an aftermarket sound card? Better SNR? Big whoop. Different DAC's? Woopty do. I don't see what the justification is, especially for some of the prices I've seen on them.
> 
> The onboard audio on my mobo works great. Realtek PuritySound 7.1ch 115db SNR - Direct Drive Technology - EMI shielding cover - PCB isolate shielding.... 24bit 192khz, so what's exactly wrong with my onboard sound?


Not all onboard audio cards have the amp to push high impedance headphones. Another thing to note is that most of the time, onboard audio has more electrical noise which sensitive IEMs and some cans pick up instantly. If you're just your average joe who plays games and doesn't use good sources (320 Kbps and higher) of music you really won't be able to tell the difference.

You can do an easy test, if you have an HD600 (300 ohms) or equivalent and plug it in to your sound card and then plug in the said headphones to an amp/dac that can properly drive those headphones, you'll hear the difference.

Generally speaking though, if you're not into high impedance headphones, I understand where you're coming from.


----------



## r0llinlacs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Not all onboard audio cards have the amp to push high impedance headphones. Another thing to note is that most of the time, onboard audio has more electrical noise which sensitive IEMs and some cans pick up instantly. If you're just your average joe who plays games and doesn't use good sources (320 Kbps and higher) of music you really won't be able to tell the difference.
> 
> You can do an easy test, if you have an HD600 (300 ohms) or equivalent and plug it in to your sound card and then plug in the said headphones to an amp/dac that can properly drive those headphones, you'll hear the difference.
> 
> Generally speaking though, if you're not into high impedance headphones, I understand where you're coming from.


I rarely use my headphones, they are HD428 and I don't know the impedance. I do listen to only 320kbps MP3 and 24bit 192khz flacs. I never use the headphone output from the computer. Always the headphone out on the receiver.

The main purpose my onboard audio serves is as a digital/optical output to the receiver for everything from games to music and movies/youtube and it works great. I couldn't justify the cost of an aftermarket sound card just for a better SNR or different DAC.

The only gripe I have with my onboard sound is there's no option for 24bit 176.4khz which is the maximum my receiver will do, so I'm forced to use 24bit 96khz setting.


----------



## RJ-Savage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Not all onboard audio cards have the amp to push high impedance headphones. Another thing to note is that most of the time, onboard audio has more electrical noise which sensitive IEMs and some cans pick up instantly. If you're just your average joe who plays games and doesn't use good sources (320 Kbps and higher) of music you really won't be able to tell the difference.
> 
> You can do an easy test, if you have an HD600 (300 ohms) or equivalent and plug it in to your sound card and then plug in the said headphones to an amp/dac that can properly drive those headphones, you'll hear the difference.
> 
> Generally speaking though, if you're not into high impedance headphones, I understand where you're coming from.


Headphones always bothered me/and just kinda aggravating hard to explain I still want to hear whats going on around me not sure why though, just no way as good as a room/area going with a full sound etc...so I occasionally patch into a real amp, usual blackface front end pair phillips 6l6s or TS 6550s etc haha


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> I rarely use my headphones, they are HD428 and I don't know the impedance. I do listen to only 320kbps MP3 and 24bit 192khz flacs. I never use the headphone output from the computer. Always the headphone out on the receiver.
> 
> The main purpose my onboard audio serves is as a digital/optical output to the receiver for everything from games to music and movies/youtube and it works great. I couldn't justify the cost of an aftermarket sound card just for a better SNR or different DAC.
> 
> The only gripe I have with my onboard sound is there's no option for 24bit 176.4khz which is the maximum my receiver will do, so I'm forced to use 24bit 96khz setting.


If I'm reading your messages right you've already graduated from onboard and skipped soundcards to external DAC and amplifiers by connecting your PC to an external AV receiver via SPDIF







.


----------



## rathborne

Also decided to take a chance on this Massdrop built O2 headphone amp:
https://www1.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier

Hopefully they'll keep as close to spec as possible when they build it.

For the record, I would have gone for a Mayflower or JDS version but American-made hi-fi equipment carries a high premium or an unviable shipping fee here in Australia.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> I rarely use my headphones, they are HD428 and I don't know the impedance. I do listen to only 320kbps MP3 and 24bit 192khz flacs. I never use the headphone output from the computer. Always the headphone out on the receiver.
> 
> The main purpose my onboard audio serves is as a digital/optical output to the receiver for everything from games to music and movies/youtube and it works great. I couldn't justify the cost of an aftermarket sound card just for a better SNR or different DAC.
> 
> The only gripe I have with my onboard sound is there's no option for 24bit 176.4khz which is the maximum my receiver will do, so I'm forced to use 24bit 96khz setting.


The HD428 has an impedance rating of 32 ohms, so your onboard audio card should be able to drive it easy. Definitely using the optical out to your receiver greatly improves the sound quality versus using the sound card directly. If your receiver has a good dac / amp then moving over to a dedicated dac / amp definitely won't make sense.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RJ-Savage*
> 
> Headphones always bothered me/and just kinda aggravating hard to explain I still want to hear whats going on around me not sure why though, just no way as good as a room/area going with a full sound etc...so I occasionally patch into a real amp, usual blackface front end pair phillips 6l6s or TS 6550s etc haha


I don't blame you liking speakers over headphones, most people would prefer that but when you do wish to listen to music and not bother people around you, headphones are you're only alternative (outside of getting rid of your room mate -







).


----------



## RJ-Savage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I don't blame you liking speakers over headphones, most people would prefer that but when you do wish to listen to music and not bother people around you, headphones are you're only alternative (outside of getting rid of your room mate -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


I know what you mean though with headphones and being quiet etc...at least that's nice.
still to really tempting to open things up with some real volume though etc haha


----------



## phillyd

Anyone with any general knowledge of electricity and circuits will admit that there is a difference in the metallurgy/composition, pulling methods, etc. The only debate is whether or not these things make a big enough difference to merit spending money on nicer wires, and to what extent.


----------



## RJ-Savage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Anyone with any general knowledge of electricity and circuits will admit that there is a difference in the metallurgy/composition, pulling methods, etc. The only debate is whether or not these things make a big enough difference to merit spending money on nicer wires, and to what extent.


if quality/copper/gauge makes a difference I don't know...on the output able to withstand the power etc. running

what you are wanting/trying to hear is probably going to be more actual circuit related, Not output.. certainly some difference with that/speakers though.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> I rarely use my headphones, they are HD428 and I don't know the impedance. I do listen to only 320kbps MP3 and 24bit 192khz flacs. I never use the headphone output from the computer. Always the headphone out on the receiver.
> 
> The main purpose my onboard audio serves is as a digital/optical output to the receiver for everything from games to music and movies/youtube and it works great. I couldn't justify the cost of an aftermarket sound card just for a better SNR or different DAC.
> 
> The only gripe I have with my onboard sound is there's no option for 24bit 176.4khz which is the maximum my receiver will do, so I'm forced to use 24bit 96khz setting.


That's probably why you are not hearing any difference then. A DAC is a digital-to-analog converter. By using digital output, you are skipping the onboard audio processor and using the DAC in the receiver instead.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> If I'm reading your messages right you've already graduated from onboard and skipped soundcards to external DAC and amplifiers by connecting your PC to an external AV receiver via SPDIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That's what I was thinking as well.


----------



## r0llinlacs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> If I'm reading your messages right you've already graduated from onboard and skipped soundcards to external DAC and amplifiers by connecting your PC to an external AV receiver via SPDIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ahh. Well lordy I've been doing that since.... well I havent used a set of PC speakers since... since.. well.. like 1999. Lol. Always used a 3.5mm to RCA cable to a receiver for the longest time... not until I got this receiver have I used the optical out.


----------



## rathborne

Its only now that you're using SPDIF that you're using an external DAC though







.

With the RCA cables your PC was handling the Digital to Analog conversion and sending the analog signal over the wires to be amplified by the receiver.

Connecting the PC to receiver via SPDIF means your PC is sending a digital signal to the receiver and the Digital to Analog conversion happens there and not the PC.

I'm pretty sure most Yamaha receivers are using decent quality Burr Brown DACs so this will be an improvement over most motherboard sound solutions.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Not all onboard audio cards have the amp to push high impedance headphones. Another thing to note is that most of the time, onboard audio has more electrical noise which sensitive IEMs and some cans pick up instantly. If you're just your average joe who plays games and doesn't use good sources (320 Kbps and higher) of music you really won't be able to tell the difference.
> 
> You can do an easy test, if you have an HD600 (300 ohms) or equivalent and plug it in to your sound card and then plug in the said headphones to an amp/dac that can properly drive those headphones, you'll hear the difference.
> 
> Generally speaking though, if you're not into high impedance headphones, I understand where you're coming from.
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely use my headphones, they are HD428 and I don't know the impedance. I do listen to only 320kbps MP3 and 24bit 192khz flacs. I never use the headphone output from the computer. Always the headphone out on the receiver.
> 
> The main purpose my onboard audio serves is as a digital/optical output to the receiver for everything from games to music and movies/youtube and it works great. I couldn't justify the cost of an aftermarket sound card just for a better SNR or different DAC.
> 
> The only gripe I have with my onboard sound is there's no option for 24bit 176.4khz which is the maximum my receiver will do, so I'm forced to use 24bit 96khz setting.
Click to expand...

Audio-CDs are 16-bit/44.1K, so any audio files ripped from an audio-CD do not need to be more then 16-bit/44.1K (mp3 & FLAC).
Blu-ray audio files seem to usually be 16-bit/48K.

Unless you search out and buy Hi-Res audio files, like they sell at HDtracks, or buy one of those rare 24-bit/96K music disks.
You really have no need to even use 24-bit/96k DAC settings

I have not really check around, but I'm guessing gaming audio rarely, if ever goes above 48K.


----------



## r0llinlacs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tacoboy*
> 
> Audio-CDs are 16-bit/44.1K, so any audio files ripped from an audio-CD do not need to be more then 16-bit/44.1K (mp3 & FLAC).
> Blu-ray audio files seem to usually be 16-bit/48K.
> 
> Unless you search out and buy Hi-Res audio files, like they sell at HDtracks, or buy one of those rare 24-bit/96K music disks.
> You really have no need to even use 24-bit/96k DAC settings
> 
> I have not really check around, but I'm guessing gaming audio rarely, if ever goes above 48K.


I technically re-master some of my tracks in 24bit 192khz flac with dithering and anti-aliasing filters and my ears can tell a difference so I keep doing it. To be honest, the difference is hard to tell, and takes time to tell, but the sound is simply more detailed. This is confirmed by zooming in on the actual waveform after the re-master. Instead of 16 bits of information per sample, there are 24 bits of information per sample. The dithering and anti-aliasing filter fill in the new bits of information. It's very different from just converting a file to 24bit 192khz. Yes it's artificial, and some people frown on it but to me it comes down to opinion. To my ears it sounds better than 16bit 44khz .flac and .wav and MP3 doesn't even compare to either of them, I've been doing it forever and nobody is going to stop me from doing it because _I like the way it sounds_.

Sorry to be so defensive but I've had this debate one too many times.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0llinlacs*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tacoboy*
> 
> Audio-CDs are 16-bit/44.1K, so any audio files ripped from an audio-CD do not need to be more then 16-bit/44.1K (mp3 & FLAC).
> Blu-ray audio files seem to usually be 16-bit/48K.
> 
> Unless you search out and buy Hi-Res audio files, like they sell at HDtracks, or buy one of those rare 24-bit/96K music disks.
> You really have no need to even use 24-bit/96k DAC settings
> 
> I have not really check around, but I'm guessing gaming audio rarely, if ever goes above 48K.
> 
> 
> 
> I technically re-master some of my tracks in 24bit 192khz flac with dithering and anti-aliasing filters and my ears can tell a difference so I keep doing it. To be honest, the difference is hard to tell, and takes time to tell, but the sound is simply more detailed. This is confirmed by zooming in on the actual waveform after the re-master. Instead of 16 bits of information per sample, there are 24 bits of information per sample. The dithering and anti-aliasing filter fill in the new bits of information. It's very different from just converting a file to 24bit 192khz. Yes it's artificial, and some people frown on it but to me it comes down to opinion. To my ears it sounds better than 16bit 44khz .flac and .wav and MP3 doesn't even compare to either of them, I've been doing it forever and nobody is going to stop me from doing it because _I like the way it sounds_.
> 
> Sorry to be so defensive but I've had this debate one too many times.
Click to expand...

Cool.
It sounds like your willing to put in the extra work for making higher bit-rate/sample-rate audio recordings.
I'm assuming most would not put in nearly the effort you do.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

I want to buy Sennheiser G4ME ZERO do you think that is good for pc games and movies;l;


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikealfonsooss*
> 
> I want to buy Sennheiser G4ME ZERO do you think that is good for pc games and movies;l;


You're better off with a set of headphones, a good sound card or headphone amp+dac and a desktop mic or mod mic.


----------



## eliteage

What about a headset for PC and xbox one? How about Astros A40? Any other recommendations that has this sort of compatibility ?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliteage*
> 
> What about a headset for PC and xbox one? How about Astros A40? Any other recommendations that has this sort of compatibility ?


I am not sure how Xbox works, but generally headsets come in 3 flavors; analog, USB, and wireless. That said, the vast majority of headsets are junk and the ones that are not, are generally marked up a ton in price compared to their mic-less counterparts.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eliteage*
> 
> What about a headset for PC and xbox one? How about Astros A40? Any other recommendations that has this sort of compatibility ?


A40 doesn't have any compatibility with xbone... But if you are talking about the Mixamp then you are right about the compatibility.

If you don't care about the virtual surround then there are a lot of options that allow you to use headphones with the xbone:
- The official xbone stereo headset adapter
- Schiit Modi (needs amplifier)
- Audioengine D1
- Every soundcard/DAC/amp with optical input

So in a nutshell: You will need a soundcard/DAC if you want to use headphones/headsets with the xbone. Because xbone simply doesn't have any means to output analog signals without them (the official adapter counts as a soundcard).


----------



## pez

The Xbox now has controllers with 3.5mm audio/headset jacks built in. They also made adapters for v1 controllers. How good the quality is from a wireless controller, is probably assumedly bad. However, if you have a decent headset for your PC already, you could always try it, or purchase their audio+mic adapter to use with the controller and try. It's cheaper and an overall better investment if you've already got a good set of cans.


----------



## Natskyge

I am curently in the process of planing my next pc build which is Mitx so i have used the opertunity to get an excuse to upgrade my audio setup. So my curent setup is HD 558, Soundblaster Z and i have been very happy with them for gaming/music.

So to the point: i am thinking of upgrading to AKG K612 pro, EHP-O2Di and a modmic v4.0. So my question is: will the K612,s have better positional audio and bass since with my 558s i miss some bass and a bit of position.

Basicly are the AKGs a good upgrade over my 558s that is worth the money and if not what would you suggest?
( I will obivously sell my curent setup along with my pc )

Thanks in advance!


----------



## XowX

I have recently been thinking about upgrading my computer speakers (have $20 speakers I have been using since undergrad). What are good powered speakers for ~$200 (would prefer to be bale to buy on amazon)? I am also thinking about getting a shiit magni and modii combo for my headphones. Would the modii be good for the powered speakers as well? I have a dragonfly DAC right now, but want to use that only for travel. Only things these powered speakers will be used for is next to me in my computer room.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XowX*
> 
> I have recently been thinking about upgrading my computer speakers (have $20 speakers I have been using since undergrad). What are good powered speakers for ~$200 (would prefer to be bale to buy on amazon)? I am also thinking about getting a shiit magni and modii combo for my headphones. Would the modii be good for the powered speakers as well? I have a dragonfly DAC right now, but want to use that only for travel. Only things these powered speakers will be used for is next to me in my computer room.


Modi/Modi 2, especially the Modi 2 Uber, is a good choice. I would get the Fostex PM0.4n speakers. I haven't listened to them myself but it is often compared favorably to the $400 Audioengine A5+ which I have heard.


----------



## musicPC

Hey guys,

I been considering upgrading the secondary listening space with a modest sized headphone amp with enough power.

Does anyone know about this one?
http://www.ssaudio.com.au/lycan-op-amp-test-bench/


----------



## rathborne

Hi guys (and Simca, as per 3rd point in the initial post







),

Just wanted to shout out a huge "thank you" for helping me find my new PC audio set up. I originally set out for a set of Sennheiser HD 558 headphones and after looking for some cheap HD 598s then deciding to go with the neutrality of the HD 600s, I somehow ended up settling on a pre-loved set of HD 650s and am immensely enjoying them







.

I'm using a FiiO e10k DAC+head-amp to drive the HD 650s for now as I bought the FiiO before the headphones as a preparation for the Sennheisers







.

I imagine these are an older set of HD 650s so they probably suffer the cracking issue and may be veiled but I haven't noticed these issues. Though I haven't anything that could be called their peers available to compare against so I guess ignorance is bliss







.

So again, thanks for the collective wisdom and comments in this thread, they've helped enlighten another newbie to some amazing headphones!


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Hi guys (and Simca, as per 3rd point in the initial post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ),


Lol trust me, you won't be able to contact him on OCN








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> I imagine these are an older set of HD 650s so they probably suffer the cracking issue and may be veiled but I haven't noticed these issues. Though I haven't anything that could be called their peers available to compare against so I guess ignorance is bliss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Mine are an 'older' pair - and they are basically in pristine condition for 4 years of near daily use. They don't experience the same cracking issue as the HD5xx on the side.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Hi guys (and Simca, as per 3rd point in the initial post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ),
> 
> Just wanted to shout out a huge "thank you" for helping me find my new PC audio set up. I originally set out for a set of Sennheiser HD 558 headphones and after looking for some cheap HD 598s then deciding to go with the neutrality of the HD 600s, I somehow ended up settling on a pre-loved set of HD 650s and am immensely enjoying them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I'm using a FiiO e10k DAC+head-amp to drive the HD 650s for now as I bought the FiiO before the headphones as a preparation for the Sennheisers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I imagine these are an older set of HD 650s so they probably suffer the cracking issue and may be veiled but I haven't noticed these issues. Though I haven't anything that could be called their peers available to compare against so I guess ignorance is bliss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So again, thanks for the collective wisdom and comments in this thread, they've helped enlighten another newbie to some amazing headphones!


You might consider getting a tube headphone amplifier, to use with the HD650.
Just connect the tube amp to the E10K's line-output.
The Sennheiser HD600/HD650 seem to improve with a more powerful headphone amplifier.
Read up and asking questions about the HD650 on this thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-impressions-thread


----------



## rathborne

Thanks, I'll give that thread a read! Later on I'm considering either an O2, Schiit Magni or Vali or going all out with a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball but that would be a dedicated music listening station I think. Not sure how the Crack would go with the PC let alone fit on the same desk







.


----------



## pez

BHC is a good option if you're willing to build it. And it should play ok with your PC as long as you choose a compatible DAC. Just find a well-rounded DAC with all the inputs that you need.


----------



## ajx

Does AKG Q701 need to be amplified through dac/ampli on my PC?
I have an internal audio chipset, Realtek ALC887
Thanks


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajx*
> 
> Does AKG Q701 need to be amplified through dac/ampli on my PC?
> I have an internal audio chipset, Realtek ALC887
> Thanks


Yes.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Get a Gustard H10. It's Chi-Fi but it's gooooooood Chi-Fi. Even HD800s sound good on it. 5 hunnert dorrar.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Oh, Behringer released a new speaker series: Behringer Nekkst.
Looks interesting, especially because the designer is the founder of KRK. And it even has the room compensation switches of the Truth series.


----------



## ruawzrd

There can definitely be more options, but this is a great thread nonetheless.


----------



## ruawzrd

Somebody recommend me a good desktop mic. I had the blue yeti pro, but it's too bulky and it ended up dying on me after a few months.


----------



## DVLux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suavebrahhh*
> 
> Somebody recommend me a good desktop mic. I had the blue yeti pro, but it's too bulky and it ended up dying on me after a few months.


"Good Desktop Mic" is so vague... I assume you want a mic that connects via USB and stands on your desk?


----------



## Sonikku13

The Audio-Technica ADG-1 is available from Amazon in the USA. It costs $225.

Now, I wouldn't get it if it were only for myself, since I already have AD900X headphones. But, for a Christmas gift, is it worth it, for the convenience of the headset part? Most uninformed consumers think headset > headphones + mic. Yes, I know the AD700X is $100, so it's not worth it in terms of value. But I kind of want the convenience for my brother, so he can Skype with others having a nice mic, without having to worry about knocking over a ATR2500 mic.

He currently has some aging AD700 headphones, which is why the ADG-1 is so enticing.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> The Audio-Technica ADG-1 is available from Amazon in the USA. It costs $225.
> 
> Now, I wouldn't get it if it were only for myself, since I already have AD900X headphones. But, for a Christmas gift, is it worth it, for the convenience of the headset part? Most uninformed consumers think headset > headphones + mic. Yes, I know the AD700X is $100, so it's not worth it in terms of value. But I kind of want the convenience for my brother, so he can Skype with others having a nice mic, without having to worry about knocking over a ATR2500 mic.
> 
> He currently has some aging AD700 headphones, which is why the ADG-1 is so enticing.


Since he has the AD700 already I don't think it's worth it for gaming and Skype. I'd just get him a Modmic.


----------



## carlhil2

Been using this since it came out http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PKBED48?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s01 and you don't need an amp...


----------



## Sonikku13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> The Audio-Technica ADG-1 is available from Amazon in the USA. It costs $225.
> 
> Now, I wouldn't get it if it were only for myself, since I already have AD900X headphones. But, for a Christmas gift, is it worth it, for the convenience of the headset part? Most uninformed consumers think headset > headphones + mic. Yes, I know the AD700X is $100, so it's not worth it in terms of value. But I kind of want the convenience for my brother, so he can Skype with others having a nice mic, without having to worry about knocking over a ATR2500 mic.
> 
> He currently has some aging AD700 headphones, which is why the ADG-1 is so enticing.
> 
> 
> 
> Since he has the AD700 already I don't think it's worth it for gaming and Skype. I'd just get him a Modmic.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention, one of the wings on the AD700 is falling apart. Which is why I am considering the ADG-1 in the first place.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> I forgot to mention, one of the wings on the AD700 is falling apart. Which is why I am considering the ADG-1 in the first place.


I see. Those wings never did feel sturdy. So that's $225 for the ADG-1, but then there's the AD900X + Modmic as an option too. One of the Sennheiser G4ME headsets is basically an HD 558 plus a mic from what I understand, and it costs no more than $200 and doesn't have cheap wings to break. So you have several decent options.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Not true what so ever.
> 
> There are hundreds if not thousands of variables just in the metallurgy of copper alone.
> 
> When a company says that the copper is 99.99% true, you can pretty much call BS on those numbers. Most copper if you are lucky is more like 95-98% pure, and furthermore they do not tell you what the other portion of the metal is.
> 
> Is it some cheaper metal to keep the cost down? Is it some type of chemical that they used to remove oxygen? Is it just plain oxygen? Or more likely, is it a combination of all of the above? No one really knows.
> 
> Then when you get your mystery metal, you have to pull it into wire. The way you do this can actually effect the way the structure in the metal lines up.
> 
> Why do you think companies like audio note pulls all their own wire? Its not a marketing scam because they do not market their wire as such, and the profit margin in doing so is next to 0. Its so that they can control every aspect about the way the wire conducts electricity.
> 
> Then you can get into things like solid core wire vs stranded. Do you use flat ribbon cables to take advantage of the skinning effect or not.
> 
> Every little thing impacts something else with electronics in general.


This man deserves a REp from me







There are cables that can SOUND with little more sparkles and unicorns, and there are cables that has a price, which SOUND impressive in front of coleagues







Through my career on hi-fi i was lots of times impressed on how can even a power cable make a difference on sound







but still sometimes some products is just a bs


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> This man deserves a REp from me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are cables that can SOUND with little more sparkles and unicorns, and there are cables that has a price, which SOUND impressive in front of coleagues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Through my career on hi-fi i was lots of times impressed on how can even a power cable make a difference on sound
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but still sometimes some products is just a bs


I ( think ) know alot about quantum mechanical things and physics in general and this makes no godamn sense.
Please explain why cabels alter sound, and back it up because it sounds very plecebo to me.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I ( think ) know alot about quantum mechanical things and physics in general and this makes no godamn sense.
> Please explain why cabels alter sound, and back it up because it sounds very plecebo to me.


i can say only one thing, try it if there is a some sort shop ner you. I still look at this kinda sceptical, but when you switch a cable with a high grade copper to a silver plated ones the instrumentals becomes very clear, not so much bass and not spacious as with a copper ones. As for power cords, some of them uses ferrite cores on in end plug, and yeah it gives more punchy sound on mids and some more bass, still you are rellying on a amp a lot but this is like a small improvement. Have tried QED all cables, including interconnects and USB, and some gave little more sparkles and unicorns but not as much as a Black Rhodium top line cables.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> i can say only one thing, try it if there is a some sort shop ner you. I still look at this kinda sceptical, but when you switch a cable with a high grade copper to a silver plated ones the instrumentals becomes very clear, not so much bass and not spacious as with a copper ones. As for power cords, some of them uses ferrite cores on in end plug, and yeah it gives more punchy sound on mids and some more bass, still you are rellying on a amp a lot but this is like a small improvement. Have tried QED all cables, including interconnects and USB, and some gave little more sparkles and unicorns but not as much as a Black Rhodium top line cables.


I did not ask for that i asked for scientific proof or a blind test. Not a plecebo fest that being aware of the cables is...


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I did not ask for that i asked for scientific proof or a blind test. Not a plecebo fest that being aware of the cables is...


Im not a scientist so try for yourself







i have only a practical proof through all the trying and playing with some toys for big boys


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> Im not a scientist so try for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have only a practical proof through all the trying and playing with some toys for big boys


you have not done any blind testing i am assuming, because as a physics fan it sounds like a scam.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> you have not done any blind testing i am assuming, because as a physics fan it sounds like a scam.[/quotIm not going to prowe that im right, and i thought that in this forum is a smaller number of small minded people that scream they need a scientific proof because of many reasons they dont feel comfortable knowing on small things giving a small impact on audio


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> you have not done any blind testing i am assuming, because as a physics fan it sounds like a scam.


Im not going to prowe that im right, and i thought that in this forum is a smaller number of small minded people that scream they need a scientific proof because of many reasons they dont feel comfortable knowing on small things giving a small impact on audio


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> Im not going to prowe that im right, and i thought that in this forum is a smaller number of small minded people that scream they need a scientific proof because of many reasons they dont feel comfortable knowing on small things giving a small impact on audio


Look if you wanna buy it go ahead, but i am just currious about the reason thats so many people can hear a diffrence.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Look if you wanna buy it go ahead, but i am just currious about the reason thats so many people can hear a diffrence.


I dont need to buy anything, at work i can choose a lots of random combinations to listen calmly in a room and know the difference on a products. And i dont do any of specific scientific tests or such things, thats why i said to go to the shop that has a good amount of a products and ask them to try out how they sounds, some of guys working on a hi end stuff may also tell some deeper tech specs even for a cables. Stop being ignorant and just go ahead and try them, you'll see the difference.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Looking for help around here, I jut bought an HE-400i and the cables are too stiff for my liking (They are nicely done though with the nice sleeves and all)! Can anyone recommend a good place to buy replacement cables? No, I'm not looking at purchasing silver cables or any of that expensive stuff, I just need a nice pliable / soft cable to replace the original ones.

Thanks!









EDIT: Is eBay a good place to find cables?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Looking for help around here, I jut bought an HE-400i and the cables are too stiff for my liking (They are nicely done though with the nice sleeves and all)! Can anyone recommend a good place to buy replacement cables? No, I'm not looking at purchasing silver cables or any of that expensive stuff, I just need a nice pliable / soft cable to replace the original ones.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Is eBay a good place to find cables?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Audio-Upgrade-Cable-for-HIFIMAN-HE-5-HE-6-HE-500-HE560-Headphone-/111680367243


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I did not ask for that i asked for scientific proof or a blind test. Not a plecebo fest that being aware of the cables is...


Coming on a forum and aggressively demanding proof of something is ridiculous. If you don't get it, look it up. Analog cables are much more sensitive and need to be better built than digital cables for all sorts of reasons. If you want proof that a cable, or even the directionality of a cable, can make a difference, buy an audioquest RCA cable and hook it up with the signal flowing opposite the indicator arrows, then flip it around. Big difference.That's because Audioquest extrudes their copper a certain way and they always check which way the grain is going and put little arrows on the cable to indicate it. Solid core cables sound better than multi strand cables. Cable gauge, length, termination, the grade of copper, etc etc all make a difference. I'm not saying it's worth it to put $150 speaker cables on a $150 speaker setup, but if you have $1500 speakers, you should definitely spend at least $100-200 on your cables. Even the USB cable you run to your DAC can make a big difference, as can power cords. Some audiophiles will even argue that vibration on your cords degrade sound. I have seen pictures where all the cables are on little foam risers above the carpet so they don't vibrate when the music plays.

Audio is such a fragile and delicate thing. All sorts of things make a difference.


----------



## Sonikku13

I'm looking to start some tube rolling. I've currently got the Electro-Harmonix 6922 and the Sylvania 6922. I prefer my Sylvania 6922, but it's starting to age a bit.

My setup consists of the Aune T1 Mk. 2, Audio-Technica AD900X.

I am looking for a bigger soundstage, and better imaging, for better soundwhoring in gaming, and maybe a little bit (we're talking under 1% of 1%) of musical improvements.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> Coming on a forum and aggressively demanding proof of something is ridiculous. If you don't get it, look it up. Analog cables are much more sensitive and need to be better built than digital cables for all sorts of reasons. If you want proof that a cable, or even the directionality of a cable, can make a difference, buy an audioquest RCA cable and hook it up with the signal flowing opposite the indicator arrows, then flip it around. Big difference.That's because Audioquest extrudes their copper a certain way and they always check which way the grain is going and put little arrows on the cable to indicate it. Solid core cables sound better than multi strand cables. Cable gauge, length, termination, the grade of copper, etc etc all make a difference. I'm not saying it's worth it to put $150 speaker cables on a $150 speaker setup, but if you have $1500 speakers, you should definitely spend at least $100-200 on your cables. Even the USB cable you run to your DAC can make a big difference, as can power cords. Some audiophiles will even argue that vibration on your cords degrade sound. I have seen pictures where all the cables are on little foam risers above the carpet so they don't vibrate when the music plays.
> 
> Audio is such a fragile and delicate thing. All sorts of things make a difference.


Well i tried researching it but no Real expriments have been made so when you people started talking about how big of a difrence it makes i thourght that you had well documented and tested reasons to believe that, it now seems i was wrong.

It also surprises me how defensive you people get about this, why is that?

So the reason i asked was i could not find any Scientific information on the subject so i thourght i would ask.
The reason i am so sceptical is what matters is the electricitys frequency doesn't change. Silver cables and high end copper cables advantage are as followers

Less resistance, better conductivity.

None of this alters the frequency as far as i am aware, and as such doesn't alter the sound, even if the Electrons acted diffrent in the cable it doesn't matter since it goes in to a copper voice coil anyway. I am sure you know of the HD 800 well if silver/made-by-elves-copper cables make such a big diffrence you would think they would use that to make it sound better.

But they dont, why is that?

You have to understand that the Electrons which make up the electric current doesn't realy Care what materiel it is in, its still an electron. Yeah it might be in diffrent energy stats but that doesn't matter since it can't stay there when it goes in the voice coil.

Feel free to ignore me and buy your cables, i realy dont care. I however want to learn and so far you people dont seem any smarter than me, so i think i will end this disscousin in favor of learning on my own.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Well i tried researching it but no Real expriments have been made so when you people started talking about how big of a difrence it makes i thourght that you had well documented and tested reasons to believe that, it now seems i was wrong.
> 
> It also surprises me how defensive you people get about this, why is that?
> 
> So the reason i asked was i could not find any Scientific information on the subject so i thourght i would ask.
> The reason i am so sceptical is what matters is the electricitys frequency doesn't change. Silver cables and high end copper cables advantage are as followers
> 
> Less resistance, better conductivity.
> 
> None of this alters the frequency as far as i am aware, and as such doesn't alter the sound, even if the Electrons acted diffrent in the cable it doesn't matter since it goes in to a copper voice coil anyway. I am sure you know of the HD 800 well if silver/made-by-elves-copper cables make such a big diffrence you would think they would use that to make it sound better.
> 
> But they dont, why is that?
> 
> You have to understand that the Electrons which make up the electric current doesn't realy Care what materiel it is in, its still an electron. Yeah it might be in diffrent energy stats but that doesn't matter since it can't stay there when it goes in the voice coil.
> 
> Feel free to ignore me and buy your cables, i realy dont care. I however want to learn and so far you people dont seem any smarter than me, so i think i will end this disscousin in favor of learning on my own.


I still dont get the point of looking a science friction on audio, just test it out and youll see







there is no need to try to ask people scientific explanation, not all are going balls deep on science stuff


----------



## Blameless

I'm extremely skeptical of claims that even high-end analog audio benefits from the segment of cables some people are advocating.

As long as the conductor is thick enough for the current you are pushing, the odds of you being able to differentiate cables is phenomenally small, even if you're a golden ear. This has been demonstrated time and again in all sorts of double blind testing. Sure, the actual signal will be slightly different cable to cable, but these differences are almost always going to be way below the threshold of perception...unless something is outright broken or woefully inadequate.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> I still dont get the point of looking a science friction on audio, just test it out and youll see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is no need to try to ask people scientific explanation, not all are going balls deep on science stuff


#TheDress
Same goes for audio. Which is why most people want a scientific explanation.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> #TheDress
> Same goes for audio. Which is why most people want a scientific explanation.


Why you had to bring this







now i remember as a some sort of PTSD fullfilled with all that hype on colours


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Well i tried researching it but no Real expriments have been made so when you people started talking about how big of a difrence it makes i thourght that you had well documented and tested reasons to believe that, it now seems i was wrong.
> 
> It also surprises me how defensive you people get about this, why is that?
> 
> So the reason i asked was i could not find any Scientific information on the subject so i thourght i would ask.
> The reason i am so sceptical is what matters is the electricitys frequency doesn't change. Silver cables and high end copper cables advantage are as followers
> 
> Less resistance, better conductivity.
> 
> None of this alters the frequency as far as i am aware, and as such doesn't alter the sound, even if the Electrons acted diffrent in the cable it doesn't matter since it goes in to a copper voice coil anyway. I am sure you know of the HD 800 well if silver/made-by-elves-copper cables make such a big diffrence you would think they would use that to make it sound better.
> 
> But they dont, why is that?
> 
> You have to understand that the Electrons which make up the electric current doesn't realy Care what materiel it is in, its still an electron. Yeah it might be in diffrent energy stats but that doesn't matter since it can't stay there when it goes in the voice coil.
> 
> Feel free to ignore me and buy your cables, i realy dont care. I however want to learn and so far you people dont seem any smarter than me, so i think i will end this disscousin in favor of learning on my own.


It sounds better. Ok?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> It sounds better. Ok?


Ha! Stop it dude! Some say it's true there is a difference but others say it's hog wash (Subjective vs Objective).... So let's all agree to disagree! End of story... so we can go back and discuss about different headphones and music!


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Ha! Stop it dude! Some say it's true there is a difference but others say it's hog wash (Subjective vs Objective).... So let's all agree to disagree! End of story... so we can go back and discuss about different headphones and music!


As for headphones, where to get BA drivers at costs that doesnt leaves you with one hand and kidney?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> As for headphones, where to get BA drivers at costs that doesnt leaves you with one hand and kidney?


BA = badass?

If so, that is purely subjective and depends on your existing equipment, quality of audio files, and budget. You can get headphones that sound great without spending over $400 for instance. It all depends on what sounds good to YOU.


----------



## mikeaj

Balanced armatures? For full-size headphones? Don't exist. For IEMs, there are many cheaper models these days.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> BA = badass?
> 
> If so, that is purely subjective and depends on your existing equipment, quality of audio files, and budget. You can get headphones that sound great without spending over $400 for instance. It all depends on what sounds good to YOU.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> *Balanced armatures*? For full-size headphones? Don't exist. For IEMs, there are many cheaper models these days.


LOL. I was leaning more towards that^


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> LOL. I was leaning more towards that^


Too much borderlands....


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> Coming on a forum and aggressively demanding proof of something is ridiculous. If you don't get it, look it up. Analog cables are much more sensitive and need to be better built than digital cables for all sorts of reasons. If you want proof that a cable, or even the directionality of a cable, can make a difference, buy an audioquest RCA cable and hook it up with the signal flowing opposite the indicator arrows, then flip it around. Big difference.That's because Audioquest extrudes their copper a certain way and they always check which way the grain is going and put little arrows on the cable to indicate it. Solid core cables sound better than multi strand cables. Cable gauge, length, termination, the grade of copper, etc etc all make a difference. I'm not saying it's worth it to put $150 speaker cables on a $150 speaker setup, but if you have $1500 speakers, you should definitely spend at least $100-200 on your cables. Even the USB cable you run to your DAC can make a big difference, as can power cords. Some audiophiles will even argue that vibration on your cords degrade sound. I have seen pictures where all the cables are on little foam risers above the carpet so they don't vibrate when the music plays.
> 
> Audio is such a fragile and delicate thing. All sorts of things make a difference.


Sasuga head-fi. Let me just go buy some coconut audio cables









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I'm extremely skeptical of claims that even high-end analog audio benefits from the segment of cables some people are advocating.
> 
> As long as the conductor is thick enough for the current you are pushing, the odds of you being able to differentiate cables is phenomenally small, even if you're a golden ear. This has been demonstrated time and again in all sorts of double blind testing. Sure, the actual signal will be slightly different cable to cable, but these differences are almost always going to be way below the threshold of perception...unless something is outright broken or woefully inadequate.


That's why Genelec uses only Uranium-enriched palladium internal wiring, none of this bish-bosh copper nonsense.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I'm extremely skeptical of claims that even high-end analog audio benefits from the segment of cables some people are advocating.
> 
> As long as the conductor is thick enough for the current you are pushing, the odds of you being able to differentiate cables is phenomenally small, even if you're a golden ear. This has been demonstrated time and again in all sorts of double blind testing. Sure, the actual signal will be slightly different cable to cable, but these differences are almost always going to be way below the threshold of perception...unless something is outright broken or woefully inadequate.


Not to mention, even if the THD introduced by the cable (as this is the only thing that appears to matter to audiophools, THD) was in the order of the 0.05% (which would be IMMENSE and probably because you run the cable by the side of a mains line), your voice coils still have an inherent THD orders of magnitude higher, so even then it would be largely irrelevant.

But why do you guys care anyway? 'Audiophiles' like tubes over solid state amps basing solely on the 'warmer' tone of the tubes. Guess what? You're willingly distorting the signal because of your own preference.

So it's plain old hypocrisy, yet again.


----------



## Kanivakil

Which pair of speakers can replicate the sound of someone letting it rip, to defile the air, the closest to the original? The sound must be so good I can't tell the difference between the real things and recording.


----------



## Artikbot

I think you want a speaker in your farside exhaust. Make sure you get designer jeans with top quality stitching and fabric though, otherwise you may get some distortion on the speaker and your rip noises may sound more like chocolate shake being shot out, with ricocheting.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Auratone 5C, can't get anything better than that.
It's one of the most widely used monitoring speakers in professional studios so it most likely gets you closest to the original mixing.

That was all sarcasm, at least half of it. The speakers are still one of the most popular monitoring speakers.


----------



## Kanivakil

What about scent?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kanivakil*
> 
> Which pair of speakers can replicate the sound of someone letting it rip, to defile the air, the closest to the original? The sound must be so good I can't tell the difference between the real things and recording.


Wat... Why would you ask that?


----------



## lurker2501

Where can I get good cheap speaker stands for AV40 M-AUDIO?


----------



## lurker2501

Also what can people say about Dayton Audio B652-Air / Lepai LP-2020A Mini / Xonar DG combo?


----------



## iamwardicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Where can I get good cheap speaker stands for AV40 M-AUDIO?


Amazon has the SANUS BF31-B1 31" Speaker Stands for $45 (USD).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Also what can people say about Dayton Audio B652-Air / Lepai LP-2020A Mini / Xonar DG combo?


I have a set of B652 (non air) and a Lepai amp in the table tennis room. Sounds fine for what I listen to. the Xonar DG is also pretty good. For a budget startup, I'd recommend it


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus*
> 
> Amazon has the SANUS BF31-B1 31" Speaker Stands for $45 (USD).
> I have a set of B652 (non air) and a Lepai amp in the table tennis room. Sounds fine for what I listen to. the Xonar DG is also pretty good. For a budget startup, I'd recommend it


The AIRs are double the price of the original ones. I wonder if the price justifies the sound quality improvement.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus*
> 
> Amazon has the SANUS BF31-B1 31" Speaker Stands for $45 (USD).
> I have a set of B652 (non air) and a Lepai amp in the table tennis room. Sounds fine for what I listen to. the Xonar DG is also pretty good. For a budget startup, I'd recommend it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The AIRs are double the price of the original ones. I wonder if the price justifies the sound quality improvement.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard the new B652 but I think there's a reason most budget designs, even through multiple hundreds of dollars (some exceptions aside, yes), don't tend to use AMT tweeters.

When you have to make AMT that small and cheap, a regular cloth dome tweeter may be a better idea. This is just one anecdote from one designer who is furthermore trying to sell a product, but Andrew Jones said roughly as much when asked about the new Elac Debut line he designed using dome tweeters instead of the AMT seen on the higher-end, older, German-designed Elac products.

So for the price at least, I wouldn't be surprised if the regular B652 was the better value by a long shot. The Air version may be slightly better; who knows.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Well i tried researching it but no Real expriments have been made so when you people started talking about how big of a difrence it makes i thourght that you had well documented and tested reasons to believe that, it now seems i was wrong.
> 
> It also surprises me how defensive you people get about this, why is that?
> 
> So the reason i asked was i could not find any Scientific information on the subject so i thourght i would ask.
> The reason i am so sceptical is what matters is the electricitys frequency doesn't change. Silver cables and high end copper cables advantage are as followers
> 
> Less resistance, better conductivity.
> 
> None of this alters the frequency as far as i am aware, and as such doesn't alter the sound, even if the Electrons acted diffrent in the cable it doesn't matter since it goes in to a copper voice coil anyway. I am sure you know of the HD 800 well if silver/made-by-elves-copper cables make such a big diffrence you would think they would use that to make it sound better.
> 
> But they dont, why is that?
> 
> You have to understand that the Electrons which make up the electric current doesn't realy Care what materiel it is in, its still an electron. Yeah it might be in diffrent energy stats but that doesn't matter since it can't stay there when it goes in the voice coil.
> 
> Feel free to ignore me and buy your cables, i realy dont care. I however want to learn and so far you people dont seem any smarter than me, so i think i will end this disscousin in favor of learning on my own.


Frequency represented in an analog signal is not the only factor that makes a difference. Since your headphones are drivers that need to be moved by the current (current right?) from the amplifier, having a poorly conducting cable can hurt. Idk what difference good and really good conductors make though.


----------



## Alex132

It won't, like Artikbot said, the difference is so minute between a 'standard-issue' cable from Sennheiser or the like and these _audiophile_ cables that it's negligible at best, and immeasurable at worst.

Remember, electrons flow best to the North. So face all your cables North-wards


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> It won't, like Artikbot said, the difference is so minute between a 'standard-issue' cable from Sennheiser or the like and these _audiophile_ cables that it's negligible at best, and immeasurable at worst.
> 
> Remember, electrons flow best to the North. So face all your cables North-wards


Potentially another cable, with different construction, weight, etc. will weigh down on the headphone in a manner that causes the headphone to sit slightly differently on your head. That would make more of a legitimate change than what's going on electrically (basically zero).

(though actually, okay, some IEM cables are so thin that when connected to weird multi-BA driver sets with crossovers with such a funky impedance plot that the cable resistance is non-negligible compared to the actual load and getting other cables may affect the sound slightly just from the fractional difference in impedance of the cable itself)


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Frequency represented in an analog signal is not the only factor that makes a difference. Since your headphones are drivers that need to be moved by the current (current right?) from the amplifier, having a poorly conducting cable can hurt. Idk what difference good and really good conductors make though.


Honestly speaking, every audiophile should read the chapter 25 of Sears and Zemansky's University Physics. Chapter title says it all: Current, Resistance and Electromotive Force.
And chapter 31 (Alternating Current) even explains how crossover works in loudspeakers.

In a nutshell: Even the room/cable temperature affects how good of a conductor the cable is. But in general the cable length, material and thickness determines the conductivity. And by thickness I mean the thickness of the conducting part, not the rubber/insulator.
Superconductor as an audio cable? Now *that* is something what I would like to see.


----------



## pez

Buying cables for a very noticeable gain is about the equivalent of raising a truck more than a few inches with the axles having the same clearance that they did stock.

It's understandable I guess if you've tried every other headphone and you realize what you have is what you want to stick with forever. But expecting a huge upgrade from a cable like a CPU overclock does for system performance is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


----------



## Mystriss

I want Atmos 7.1.4 or 7.2.4... I need help. Long story short, I'm building a home studio/theater and running pretty much everything through my PC so I'm looking at upgrades to that effect.

Right now I've got a Claro Halo XT running RCA to my Onkyo TX-606 receiver and 7.1 Boston Acoustic speakers, this was just a product of the evolution of my build. So the Claro card, as much as I love it, is proving to be a royal pita for my dual HTPC build, plus driver issues/conflicts, and since I just got a Blue Yeti USB and no longer /need/ the Claro's recoding ability, I'm seriously considering getting rid of it.

My MB has shielded ALC889 and SPDIF out, I don't use headphones. If I understand SPDIF right, the MB codec doesn't matter because my receiver does the decoding (?) Would I still need a DAC for this setup?

Also, thoughts on Onkyo's TX-N636 or TX-N737? I heard they were having some trouble with fires, does anyone have one? Had any troubles with one?

Any alternate suggestions for a 4k + Atmos support receiver? (I'd like to stay in the $500 range, but I might be able to swing $800. Don't really care about Bluetooth phone connections, streaming wireless audio, etc. very much. Just need SPDIF off the PC to it mostly)

Also suggestions on Atmos speakers that'd sound good with my Boston's? Or would I need to replace them all (I really like the sound on my BA's)


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mystriss*
> 
> I want Atmos 7.1.4 or 7.2.4... I need help. Long story short, I'm building a home studio/theater and running pretty much everything through my PC so I'm looking at upgrades to that effect.
> 
> Right now I've got a Claro Halo XT running RCA to my Onkyo TX-606 receiver and 7.1 Boston Acoustic speakers, this was just a product of the evolution of my build. So the Claro card, as much as I love it, is proving to be a royal pita for my dual HTPC build, plus driver issues/conflicts, and since I just got a Blue Yeti USB and no longer /need/ the Claro's recoding ability, I'm seriously considering getting rid of it.
> 
> My MB has shielded ALC889 and SPDIF out, I don't use headphones. If I understand SPDIF right, the MB codec doesn't matter because my receiver does the decoding (?) Would I still need a DAC for this setup?
> 
> Also, thoughts on Onkyo's TX-N636 or TX-N737? I heard they were having some trouble with fires, does anyone have one? Had any troubles with one?
> 
> Any alternate suggestions for a 4k + Atmos support receiver? (I'd like to stay in the $500 range, but I might be able to swing $800. Don't really care about Bluetooth phone connections, streaming wireless audio, etc. very much. Just need SPDIF off the PC to it mostly)
> 
> Also suggestions on Atmos speakers that'd sound good with my Boston's? Or would I need to replace them all (I really like the sound on my BA's)


Check with your local Best Buys, see if there's a Pioneer SC-85 in stock. They were like $900 clearance, and that is a very good price. Atmos new normal price for $800 is going to sound terrible.

You could use SPDIF output, but I would advise HDMI and routing the video through the receiver to ensure your motherboard supports all codecs.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> In a nutshell: Even the room/cable temperature affects how good of a conductor the cable is. But in general the cable length, material and thickness determines the conductivity. And by thickness I mean the thickness of the conducting part, not the rubber/insulator.
> Superconductor as an audio cable? Now *that* is something what I would like to see.


By the maximum power transfer theorem, you want the resistance on the source to be as close to zero as possible compared to the resistance of the load so you get a close to 100% efficient transfer (no power lost on dissipated heat at the source).

Can you guess the resistance of a regular 3m 24ga headphone cable? The normalised for regular copper cable is 0.25ohm. Compare that to the impedance of your headphones (although yes, that value will only represent a minute part of the impedance/frequency curve), and you will see why even skinny-ass 24 gauge cable is barely relevant in the equation.

And it's just power transfer we're talking about here, keep it in mind.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Frequency represented in an analog signal is not the only factor that makes a difference. Since your headphones are drivers that need to be moved by the current (current right?) from the amplifier, having a poorly conducting cable can hurt. Idk what difference good and really good conductors make though.


True, however the cable have to be rusting before that realy comes into play.


----------



## Artikbot

Indoors the rust layer on a metallic copper surface is a few microns thick at best. AKA, irrelevant.


----------



## phillyd

The question really is how pure of a conductor do you need to prevent minor signal degradation. At what point does it matter? I'd think for the most part a decent copper cable is enough but who knows.


----------



## Natskyge

Agree.

I would also like to thank every one in this discousion for keeping calm and civil, i wish this was possibly on more forums.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> BA = badass?
> 
> If so, that is purely subjective and depends on your existing equipment, quality of audio files, and budget. You can get headphones that sound great without spending over $400 for instance. It all depends on what sounds good to YOU.


i meant in ear earphones







But Sir you made my day


----------



## pez

Yeah, we're usually good about it here in the main two audio threads







. It's the biggest thing that makes me frequent here for audio and not Head-fi or others. I roll my eyes much less over here







. Now GPU discussions are a whole other level on this forum.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Agree.
> 
> I would also like to thank every one in this discousion for keeping calm and civil, i wish this was possibly on more forums.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, we're usually good about it here in the main two audio threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's the biggest thing that makes me frequent here for audio and not Head-fi or others. I roll my eyes much less over here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Now GPU discussions are a whole other level on this forum.


That's why I also left head-fi! At least here people are a bit more mature here when discussing headphones and such!

As for GPUs though, the 12 year old kids are all over that forum (and the oldies just can't stand them), so I try to stay away and just check out new releases and proper reviews!


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, we're usually good about it here in the main two audio threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's the biggest thing that makes me frequent here for audio and not Head-fi or others. I roll my eyes much less over here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Now GPU discussions are a whole other level on this forum.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, we're usually good about it here in the main two audio threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's the biggest thing that makes me frequent here for audio and not Head-fi or others. I roll my eyes much less over here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Now GPU discussions are a whole other level on this forum.


Multiple times at head-fi i got just right answers and not so much of rants about each others choices or on some topics


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> BA = badass?
> 
> If so, that is purely subjective and depends on your existing equipment, quality of audio files, and budget. You can get headphones that sound great without spending over $400 for instance. It all depends on what sounds good to YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> i meant in ear earphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Sir you made my day
Click to expand...

Single BA is as cheap as $40 in say the Mee Audio (Meelectronics) A151P, Rock It Sounds R-20. Single BA drivers can't really cover the whole range well and will roll off both treble and bass, though. But the midrange may be pretty good and detailed, and isolation also usually good. You can get multi-BA (two drivers, at least) around $100, though.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> That's why I also left head-fi! At least here people are a bit more mature here when discussing headphones and such!
> 
> As for GPUs though, the 12 year old kids are all over that forum (and the oldies just can't stand them), so I try to stay away and just check out new releases and proper reviews!


Agreed. I don't feel so bad to hear that coming from a fellow peer







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mr one*
> 
> Multiple times at head-fi i got just right answers and not so much of rants about each others choices or on some topics


Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad place, but some of those threads get derailed, and then some big honcho over there disagrees with you, and then like a clique, everyone remembers. So you lose your 'reputation' and then people throw it back in your face, start ignoring your recommendations, etc.

I stopped going on there simply because I was done with audio for a while, and just had no real interest to stick around. I came back to threads about how $40 headphones are matching HD650 levels. And that is the reason I haven't gone back. When I have to tell someone that they just described the exact opposite sound of a HD650, then I lose a lot of confidence that people are so misguided. It was just a pure mess the last time I visited.


----------



## Tiihokatti

One time I was browsing head-fi and one thread had ppl recommending stuff like "Sennheiser HD201 paired with an asynchronous DAC sounds much better than any +$300 headphone that is paired with a normal soundcard".
At that point I was like:


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> One time I was browsing head-fi and one thread had ppl recommending stuff like "Sennheiser HD201 paired with an asynchronous DAC sounds much better than any +$300 headphone that is paired with a normal soundcard".
> At that point I was like:


Hahaha! That' happened so many times for me at Headfi it make my tummy hurt!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Agreed. I don't feel so bad to hear that coming from a fellow peer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad place, but some of those threads get derailed, and then some big honcho over there disagrees with you, and then like a clique, everyone remembers. So you lose your 'reputation' and then people throw it back in your face, start ignoring your recommendations, etc.
> 
> I stopped going on there simply because I was done with audio for a while, and just had no real interest to stick around. I came back to threads about how $40 headphones are matching HD650 levels. And that is the reason I haven't gone back. *When I have to tell someone that they just described the exact opposite sound* of a HD650, then I lose a lot of confidence that people are so misguided. It was just a pure mess the last time I visited.


This is the most common thing that I hate over at HF! People who don't have the headphone and then discuss it like they own it. Worse yet, people who supposedly demoed the unit without really doing it, then give the wrong impression of how the can sounded!


----------



## pez

I went to go back and look at the thread I was speaking of, only to find out it's from 2013. I didn't realize it had been that long, but I just kinda relived enough experience to not want to even quote it here and waste any energy. There are select threads that I enjoy looking at from there. Specifically 'fan' or 'club' threads for the HD650 and UE Triple.fi 10.


----------



## somethingname

I just ordered some KEF Q100 speakers they're on sale for $299 instead of $550 I can't wait to test them out! I heard they have really good bass and excellent detail especially after break in.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> One time I was browsing head-fi and one thread had ppl recommending stuff like "Sennheiser HD201 paired with an asynchronous DAC sounds much better than any +$300 headphone that is paired with a normal soundcard".
> At that point I was like:


lol, this guy


----------



## Mystriss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Check with your local Best Buys, see if there's a Pioneer SC-85 in stock. They were like $900 clearance, and that is a very good price. Atmos new normal price for $800 is going to sound terrible.
> 
> You could use SPDIF output, but I would advise HDMI and routing the video through the receiver to ensure your motherboard supports all codecs.


hmmm well my motherboard has 7.1 3.5mm outs and SPDIF digital but no HDMI... I could run HDMI from my PC off my Asus 290x GPUs, they've got HDMI 1.4, but I had presumed the audio would pick up interference from the GPUs... I had to put my sound card in a separate case on a PCI riser to stop GPU interference (worked out great for me since the theme of my build is a "rack stereo" look 

Has anyone run Asus DirectCU II 290x HDMI to a receiver for just audio? As I understand it the HDMI will transmit lossless all channels, which is actually better than my SPDIF (2.1+ compressed yea?) but then there's the interference issue. (I bought the GPU's for gaming needs not audio heh) I'm running DisplayPort on my triple monitor setup, but I can buy a HDMI splitter (or run my DP splitter on the gpu for the monitors I suppose)

As for the receiver, I'll look into the pioneer, they were good construction budget back in the day so I'd kind of written them off to be honest... Our main home theater is all Pioneer, dated but it works fine for movies with Bose 5.1 processing. I had a Bose system on my computer a while back as well, but it's too bass for me and doesn't cover my entire vocal range or acoustic needs; I sing is male low c to fem high c, plus electric/acoustic guitar, violin, and harp, then I listen to everything from classical to rock, including techo trance and mod pop - bottom line I need it all. Boston's are the best I've found for my needs so far. But I digress...


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mystriss*
> 
> hmmm well my motherboard has 7.1 3.5mm outs and SPDIF digital but no HDMI... I could run HDMI from my PC off my Asus 290x GPUs, they've got HDMI 1.4, but I had presumed the audio would pick up interference from the GPUs... I had to put my sound card in a separate case on a PCI riser to stop GPU interference (worked out great for me since the theme of my build is a "rack stereo" look
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone run Asus DirectCU II 290x HDMI to a receiver for just audio? As I understand it the HDMI will transmit lossless all channels, which is actually better than my SPDIF (2.1+ compressed yea?) but then there's the interference issue. (I bought the GPU's for gaming needs not audio heh) I'm running DisplayPort on my triple monitor setup, but I can buy a HDMI splitter (or run my DP splitter on the gpu for the monitors I suppose)
> 
> As for the receiver, I'll look into the pioneer, they were good construction budget back in the day so I'd kind of written them off to be honest... Our main home theater is all Pioneer, dated but it works fine for movies with Bose 5.1 processing. I had a Bose system on my computer a while back as well, but it's too bass for me and doesn't cover my entire vocal range or acoustic needs; I sing is male low c to fem high c, plus electric/acoustic guitar, violin, and harp, then I listen to everything from classical to rock, including techo trance and mod pop - bottom line I need it all. Boston's are the best I've found for my needs so far. But I digress...


How To: Computer HDMI Sound to Receiver (ATI HDMI)
Basic guide on how to set up the HDMI connection. The reason why HDMI soundcards moved to the museum is that the modern GPU can handle the (digital) audio as well as a separate soundcard.


----------



## Mystriss

Noice, thanks for the linky. I think I'll give it a try when I pull my rig apart to do some work on it next week. I can run HDMI and DisplayPort off the GPU so I shouldn't have to run my monitors through the receiver (aka buy an HDMI splitter.) Catalyst lets me single out any monitor to be turned off (I do that regularly anyway because one of my three monitors shares connection with a mini ITX rig I threw together in my bottom case.)


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mystriss*
> 
> hmmm well my motherboard has 7.1 3.5mm outs and SPDIF digital but no HDMI... I could run HDMI from my PC off my Asus 290x GPUs, they've got HDMI 1.4, but I had presumed the audio would pick up interference from the GPUs... I had to put my sound card in a separate case on a PCI riser to stop GPU interference (worked out great for me since the theme of my build is a "rack stereo" look
> 
> Has anyone run Asus DirectCU II 290x HDMI to a receiver for just audio? As I understand it the HDMI will transmit lossless all channels, which is actually better than my SPDIF (2.1+ compressed yea?) but then there's the interference issue. (I bought the GPU's for gaming needs not audio heh) I'm running DisplayPort on my triple monitor setup, but I can buy a HDMI splitter (or run my DP splitter on the gpu for the monitors I suppose)
> 
> As for the receiver, I'll look into the pioneer, they were good construction budget back in the day so I'd kind of written them off to be honest... Our main home theater is all Pioneer, dated but it works fine for movies with Bose 5.1 processing. I had a Bose system on my computer a while back as well, but it's too bass for me and doesn't cover my entire vocal range or acoustic needs; I sing is male low c to fem high c, plus electric/acoustic guitar, violin, and harp, then I listen to everything from classical to rock, including techo trance and mod pop - bottom line I need it all. Boston's are the best I've found for my needs so far. But I digress...


Since the signal is digital there really isn't room to screw up the signal without breaking it. Unless maybe you've got coil wine, you should be fine. Even so I doubt you'll notice anything.

Why would your SPDIF be limited to 2.1 and why is it compressed? SPDIF can transmit an uncompressed 7.1 signal.

I have never been able to get a gpu signal to a receiver for audio only. It won't do anything without a complete circuit with a video device. Not to say it can't be done, just that I've had no luck.

Pioneer's stuff is very good at its price point they are much better dollar for dollar than Denon and Marantz in my experience. The one i linked is one of the only receivers that people say can power huge power hungry towers like Polk Rti A9's. The rest are all from the same line of Pioneer's. Their processing is great power delivery is great, they are feature rich. Very good stuff.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somethingname*
> 
> I just ordered some KEF Q100 speakers they're on sale for $299 instead of $550 I can't wait to test them out! I heard they have really good bass and excellent detail especially after break in.


I have KEF Q300 and my friend has KEF Q100. It's all about the amount of power you feed them. If you are feeding them 70W>8ohm or more they will sound fantastic and powerful. Below that they are more suited to delicate acoustic stuff.

What kind of amp are you running?


----------



## mistersprinkles

*Originally Posted by Tiihokatti View Post

One time I was browsing head-fi and one thread had ppl recommending stuff like "Sennheiser HD201 paired with an asynchronous DAC sounds much better than any +$300 headphone that is paired with a normal soundcard".
At that point I was like:*

While that is true, it makes more of a difference to have good amplification before you have a good DAC.

A $150 headphone like a Sennheiser 598 hooked up to even something cheap and decent like the $99 schiit amp WILL sound better than a $450 headphone like an HE400i hooked up to motherboard audio.

Obviously if you take that $450 headphone and add a $450 amp it will squash the $150 headphone and $100 amp.

People buy Mid-fi and hi-fi headphones and think they can run them off worse than garbage amplification and it'll sound good. I don't get it.

It's like buying KEF Blades ($35 000) and hooking them up to the speaker terminals on a panasonic boombox and expecting a hi-fi experience.


----------



## Mystriss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Since the signal is digital there really isn't room to screw up the signal without breaking it. Unless maybe you've got coil wine, you should be fine. Even so I doubt you'll notice anything.
> 
> Why would your SPDIF be limited to 2.1 and why is it compressed? SPDIF can transmit an uncompressed 7.1 signal.


Well I'm apparently behind on tech. I spent the night re-educating myself heh

Anyway, it turns out that both my MB (SPDIF) and my GPU (HDMI) can send either Dolby TrueHD or PCM. The GPU has the additional AMD TrueAudio, but there's not much that uses it yet and it'll mostly be games as I understand it so I'm kind of w/e on having it. However, the GPU is only running hdmi 1.4, but it looks like Atmos needs hdmi 2.0 to break some limits (8channels vs 32channels, 3gb transfer vs 6gb transfer, 192Khz vs 1536Khz, and a higher number of audio streams.) IDK if that's something the GPU bios/firmware update can resolve or not so I think I'll have to ask AMD... (As a note, it looks like Nvidia's ahead of the curve here, they've got HDMI 2.0 on the GTX 970&980 >.<) I have a bad feeling that AMD is going to rely on DisplayPort to carry their audio which is currently limited to HDMI 1.4... Even /if/ they upgrade to 2.0, I don't think the receiver companies are going to support display port...

SO basically, either way I go right now, I don't appear to have the capability to run atmos from my PC









I guess I'm going to have to wait until there's an atmos capable sound card/MB out, at which point I might as well wait to buy the receiver too ~sigh~ At least I learned something.

Anyway, thanks for your help heh


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mystriss*
> 
> Well I'm apparently behind on tech. I spent the night re-educating myself heh
> 
> Anyway, it turns out that both my MB (SPDIF) and my GPU (HDMI) can send either Dolby TrueHD or PCM. The GPU has the additional AMD TrueAudio, but there's not much that uses it yet and it'll mostly be games as I understand it so I'm kind of w/e on having it. However, the GPU is only running hdmi 1.4, but it looks like Atmos needs hdmi 2.0 to break some limits (8channels vs 32channels, 3gb transfer vs 6gb transfer, 192Khz vs 1536Khz, and a higher number of audio streams.) IDK if that's something the GPU bios/firmware update can resolve or not so I think I'll have to ask AMD... (As a note, it looks like Nvidia's ahead of the curve here, they've got HDMI 2.0 on the GTX 970&980 >.<) I have a bad feeling that AMD is going to rely on DisplayPort to carry their audio which is currently limited to HDMI 1.4... Even /if/ they upgrade to 2.0, I don't think the receiver companies are going to support display port...
> 
> SO basically, either way I go right now, I don't appear to have the capability to run atmos from my PC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm going to have to wait until there's an atmos capable sound card/MB out, at which point I might as well wait to buy the receiver too ~sigh~ At least I learned something.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your help heh


Why do you need atmos from the computer? Only atmos content is a select few blu rays. I'd say pick up a blu ray player for atmos.


----------



## Mystriss

My intent is to have a mini-home theater in my studio and run everything through my PC. I'm going on the presumption that, like me, lots of folks will think Atmos is great so it'll be on more than just a few blurays before too long. As it runs through hdmi 2.0, and Nvidia already has the capability to send it through, I'd imagine that games too will be coded to take advantage of Atmos; it'd be stellar in a first person shooter. I just don't happen to like Nvidia so I'm stuck waiting on AMD or ATI to put something that has hdmi 2.0 out.


----------



## FreeElectron

best bang for buck portable odac?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> best bang for buck portable odac?


The cheapest and smallest ODac, if odac was a typo then: an ODac. Look at JDS labs if you are in the US and ephainy acoustics if you are in the EU.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> The cheapest and smallest ODac, if odac was a typo then: an ODac. Look at JDS labs if you are in the US and ephainy acoustics if you are in the EU.


I have the Odac.
I am thinking something even smaller


----------



## mikeaj

The ODAC board itself is the size of two 9V batteries:


It usually gets put in an enclosure larger than that.

But what's the intended usage, anyway? If you mean it to be portable, does it need to drive headphones?

Those USB stick DAC/amps may be more appropriate.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> The ODAC board itself is the size of two 9V batteries:
> 
> 
> It usually gets put in an enclosure larger than that.
> 
> But what's the intended usage, anyway? If you mean it to be portable, does it need to drive headphones?
> 
> Those USB stick DAC/amps may be more appropriate.


It shall be used for my other system (which is currently using onboard sound)
I need it to be a portable map/dac combo (sorry about forgetting to mention the amp) but a good quality and cheap one. It will be used for some "gamer" brand headphones.
I am not sure if i should get it though.


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> It shall be used for my other system (which is currently using onboard sound)
> I need it to be a portable map/dac combo (sorry about forgetting to mention the amp) but a good quality and cheap one. It will be used for some "gamer" brand headphones.
> I am not sure if i should get it though.


If you are using gamer brand headphones upgrade them first, that will yield the biggest improvement in sound.


----------



## lurker2501

Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?


Also thoughts on Objective 2 (O2) Headphone Amplifier in comparison to Schiit units.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?


You can indeed use a DAC, and it's worth it if you use a significantly better DAC for better sound quality in music.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> It shall be used for my other system (which is currently using onboard sound)
> I need it to be a portable map/dac combo (sorry about forgetting to mention the amp) but a good quality and cheap one. It will be used for some "gamer" brand headphones.
> I am not sure if i should get it though.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are using gamer brand headphones upgrade them first, that will yield the biggest improvement in sound.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But if something portable is needed so as to avoid very noisy, poor onboard sound (onboard sound varying widely in quality), something like an Asus Xonar U3, Creative Soundblaster E1, etc. might save it and wouldn't cost all that much.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?


I don't know what boredgunner is thinking of, but the obvious (or not) thing to point out here is that a sound card is usually used for analog audio outputs and inputs, and a DAC likewise produces analog audio output. You can't use them both unless you're piping digital audio output (optical, coax S/PDIF) to a DAC that supports such input, which bypasses the sound card's audio output hardware. You can only have the actual D/A conversion done by one or the other.

If you want to make use of some kind of processing in drivers or hardware on the sound card but use the other DAC to handle the D/A conversion then that makes sense. Otherwise, you may as well be using motherboard onboard to pipe the data to the DAC, since there'd be no difference in sound quality.

And let's be real: a sound card is most likely not anything close to the weakest link in most audio systems, so the utility of the other DAC for most people is limited, aside from the audio/techie bling factor. And amp features, if you're talking a combined DAC/amp unit. But you may as well just get an amp and not a DAC/amp if all you need is the amp features like a volume knob, extra power, etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> Also thoughts on Objective 2 (O2) Headphone Amplifier in comparison to Schiit units.
Click to expand...

Schiit has a whole lineup so it depends on which model you're talking about.

The O2 is a bit clunkier in terms of the physical layout and design, being designed originally as a transportable unit using batteries. It is a better match if using very sensitive IEMs because the noise floor is lower-less background hiss, though this may be the distinction between unnoticeable vs. unnoticeable depending on the environment and exact units considered.

The Schiit units other than the Fulla tend to have greater max power output available. But this is really only useful for very insensitive headphones where you really need to crank the volume to the very limits and still not have it be loud enough, which is practically nothing.

Different people have different opinions with respect to the designs and (supposed?) sound quality differences, but this will depend on the models anyway.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you use a DAC with a soundcard, say Xonar DG and if yes is it worth it?


This is a common noob question. The two are independent of one another. The DAC is an external soundcard, the Xonar is an internal soundcard. Can you use them simultaneously? Yes, in various scenarios. Use the DAC as your output and use the soundcard as your input for a mic, for example. Or, you can run something like JRiver media player to your DAC via ASIO while you pipe another audio source through the soundcard via WDM. The point is, this is not a logical or comfortable setup. We aren't living in the early 90s with 16 voice soundcards where you had to keep an eye on things like that. Just pick one or the other. If you want to use a mic, get a USB mic. If you don't want a usb mic, keep using the mic in on your soundcard. Or ditch and sell your soundcard and use integrated. I doubt your mic is good enough for that to matter.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> If you want to make use of some kind of processing in drivers or hardware on the sound card but use the other DAC to handle the D/A conversion then that makes sense.


To clarify, that's what I was thinking of since this is often what people are asking for. Sound card optical out into an external DAC's optical in, letting you use sound card processing with an external DAC's better D/A conversion.


----------



## dyslecix

I'm wanting to purchase a pair of speakers for mainly gaming / hip-hop, but don't know which. I dont want a crap ton of bass I just want a decent amount of bass so that I don't need a subwoofer. I saw the Audio A2+ but they seem too small. I'm not sure whether I should purchase it (I don't know how much of the price of it is because of the DAC, since I have a soundblaster Z. I don't want to be paying 75% of the speakers for something I don't need). According to the OCN recommended it seems like you are saying studio monitors don't have enough bass to work and you recommend the audio a2+. Does anyone have recommendations? BUDGET: 180-250


----------



## psyclum

ok kind of a noob when it comes to high end audio so gonna need some help.

i was under the impression that mayflower O2/ODAC was a good product? doesn't seem to be too many recommendations for them at OCN so... any reason for that? and can someone steer me in the right direction if mayflower is not the way to go? budget is between $250 to $300


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> ok kind of a noob when it comes to high end audio so gonna need some help.
> 
> i was under the impression that mayflower O2/ODAC was a good product? doesn't seem to be too many recommendations for them at OCN so... any reason for that? and can someone steer me in the right direction if mayflower is not the way to go? budget is between $250 to $300


I take it you just want a decent DAC and amp for headphones? I think you have the right idea though; the ODAC and O2 are pretty much open source, some are better than others. Is JDS Labs not an option? How about Epiphany Acoustics?


----------



## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> ok kind of a noob when it comes to high end audio so gonna need some help.
> 
> i was under the impression that mayflower O2/ODAC was a good product? doesn't seem to be too many recommendations for them at OCN so... any reason for that? and can someone steer me in the right direction if mayflower is not the way to go? budget is between $250 to $300


Well all o2 and odacs are the same apart from conections and stuff so. Most people here who dont spend alot on amps and stuff have a o2 odac since its the most you will ever need for most people.


----------



## psyclum

i would like something with an optional RCA out so i can feed it to my adcom preamp if the occasion calls for it. the problem is i don't know what brands / price range i should be looking at. i know *mayflower has a unit* that has optional analog out on the back, but if you guys can point me to other options that may be better value or higher quality i'd really appreciate it.

@boredgunner
sorry i'm not familiar with the brands you mentioned. haven't really been keeping up with hi fi stuff since collage







i don't consider myself as an audiophile, but i do enjoy some decent sound. i run a fairly old adcom preamp/amp for my stereo system if that means much to you in terms of the level of sound quality I prefer. as far as computers, i'm just running an old school klipsch promedia 2.1 since i never really do too much on audio with my system.

do you consider jds lab or ephiphany acoustics a superior product to mayflower? if so, i may have to track down a local shop to see if i can take a listen on them.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> i would like something with an optional RCA out so i can feed it to my adcom preamp if the occasion calls for it. the problem is i don't know what brands / price range i should be looking at. i know *mayflower has a unit* that has optional analog out on the back, but if you guys can point me to other options that may be better value or higher quality i'd really appreciate it.
> 
> @boredgunner
> sorry i'm not familiar with the brands you mentioned. haven't really been keeping up with hi fi stuff since collage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't consider myself as an audiophile, but i do enjoy some decent sound. i run a fairly old adcom preamp/amp for my stereo system if that means much to you in terms of the level of sound quality I prefer. as far as computers, i'm just running an old school klipsch promedia 2.1 since i never really do too much on audio with my system.
> 
> do you consider jds lab or ephiphany acoustics a superior product to mayflower? if so, i may have to track down a local shop to see if i can take a listen on them.


I don't personally have experience with any of the Objective products, but JDS Labs and Epiphany Acoustics are the "go to" brands for them (the former in the US, the latter in Europe). What country are you in?


----------



## psyclum

i'm in the US. is JDS Labs an online only shop like mayflower? or do they have distributors around the country so that some stereo stores may carry them?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> ok kind of a noob when it comes to high end audio so gonna need some help.
> 
> i was under the impression that mayflower O2/ODAC was a good product? doesn't seem to be too many recommendations for them at OCN so... any reason for that? and can someone steer me in the right direction if mayflower is not the way to go? budget is between $250 to $300


In terms of "entry level" amps and DAC's, the most popular ones are O2/ODAC and Modi/Magni.


----------



## dyslecix

Do you guys happen to know of any good priced warmer dacs? I don't like DACs that are bright.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dyslecix*
> 
> Do you guys happen to know of any good priced warmer dacs? I don't like DACs that are bright.


Use an EQ


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> i'm in the US. is JDS Labs an online only shop like mayflower? or do they have distributors around the country so that some stereo stores may carry them?


A lot of people don't like Mayflower for various reasons. Personally, I never dealt with them. I really like JDS Labs however. They have great customer support and make great products.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dyslecix*
> 
> Do you guys happen to know of any good priced warmer dacs? I don't like DACs that are bright.


You can either use EQ or get an Aune T1 and use a tube that provides warmth.


----------



## dyslecix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> You can either use EQ or get an Aune T1 and use a tube that provides warmth.


Is there any particular software that's good for this? Or do you just recommend doing this in Foobar settings (or whichever program).?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dyslecix*
> 
> Is there any particular software that's good for this? Or do you just recommend doing this in Foobar settings (or whichever program).?


Any parametric equalizer should be good enough. I personally don't use Foobar to play my music; I use JRiver Media Center.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dyslecix*
> 
> Do you guys happen to know of any good priced warmer dacs? I don't like DACs that are bright.


I would look at HiFimeDIY Sabre dacs. They are very good for the price and very neutral. Much smoother than the Schiit Modi (1st version) for example. Usually I'd look for a neutral DAC and a warm amp/headphones. The Aune T1 might also be good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Use an EQ


I really dislike EQ's. I never feel like they sound as good as well-balanced equipment.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> i'm in the US. is JDS Labs an online only shop like mayflower? or do they have distributors around the country so that some stereo stores may carry them?


You can order from here:

https://www.jdslabs.com/store/#featured


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> You can order from here:
> 
> https://www.jdslabs.com/store/#featured


cool thx for the info and also everyone else who helped me with this.

i guess i'll have to dig alittle deeper on the O2/ODAC. i guess from what i can gather so far, all O2/ODAC are pretty much identical due to the license. just kinda wondering if anyone with an electrical background can chime in on the quality of the components used etc.. (electrolytic vs solid caps used etc...) I don't even know if solid caps are even recommended for high end audio so if anyone can school me on this it would be appreciated.







for all i know, building an amp out of solid caps may make it sound like crap


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> You can order from here:
> 
> https://www.jdslabs.com/store/#featured
> 
> 
> 
> cool thx for the info and also everyone else who helped me with this.
> 
> i guess i'll have to dig alittle deeper on the O2/ODAC. i guess from what i can gather so far, all O2/ODAC are pretty much identical due to the license. just kinda wondering if anyone with an electrical background can chime in on the quality of the components used etc.. (electrolytic vs solid caps used etc...) I don't even know if solid caps are even recommended for high end audio so if anyone can school me on this it would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for all i know, building an amp out of solid caps may make it sound like crap
Click to expand...

O2 has an open-source license. ODAC does not because the most suitable USB controller chip for the project at the time (I don't know about today) basically requires NDA and a certain level of secrecy. For example, full data sheets are not even publicly available.

The O2 was designed to be built by anybody, so it's all through-hole components. Anyone can source the parts and the PCB and make one. Most vendors selling these things build this on their own. ODAC is all surface-mount parts, and there's only one guy who gets production runs made. Everybody is buying from the one source.

Basically, the O2 was designed and optimized as a cheap project, as cheap as could be made possible to meet all the design criteria including many performance specs-that can run on batteries, no less-for a novice DIYer. It could have been slightly better in specs or cheaper in terms of production costs (including labor) if designed from the ground up as a desktop amp and also if using surface-mount parts.

For both, power consumption is very low, and so heat is not a problem. As with pretty much any audio amp, the O2 uses electrolytic caps for power supply bulk capacitance, but basically any part anybody outside of China etc. can source is decent quality, and again the temps are so low it doesn't matter. With respect to longevity, I'd be a lot more worried about the jacks than the caps or any of the other electronics. It's not like vintage speaker amps where there actually is a lot of heat and caps probably do need replacing. There are ceramic and film caps elsewhere, including for DC blocking between stages (i.e. there is a coupling capacitor, so the design has capacitors in the signal path, which some audiophiles take moral exception to).

The first page here is the BOM:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B52Awjeyc5zKYWViZjlhNzItZDBmYi00YjA4LTk1NzgtZTMwNTAzMWQ3Y2Iy/view?ddrp=1&hl=en_US&pli=1

You can find more details about the "why" for some of the parts here:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-design-process.html

More info here including links (also dig through for a bit more on the ODAC):
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/o2-summary.html

The designer is MIA; here are some notes by JDS Labs on the ODAC Rev B:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1003


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> O2 has an open-source license. ODAC does not because the most suitable USB controller chip for the project at the time (I don't know about today) basically requires NDA and a certain level of secrecy. For example, full data sheets are not even publicly available.
> 
> The O2 was designed to be built by anybody, so it's all through-hole components. Anyone can source the parts and the PCB and make one. Most vendors selling these things build this on their own. ODAC is all surface-mount parts, and there's only one guy who gets production runs made. Everybody is buying from the one source.
> 
> Basically, the O2 was designed and optimized as a cheap project, as cheap as could be made possible to meet all the design criteria including many performance specs-that can run on batteries, no less-for a novice DIYer. It could have been slightly better in specs or cheaper in terms of production costs (including labor) if designed from the ground up as a desktop amp and also if using surface-mount parts.
> 
> For both, power consumption is very low, and so heat is not a problem. As with pretty much any audio amp, the O2 uses electrolytic caps for power supply bulk capacitance, but basically any part anybody outside of China etc. can source is decent quality, and again the temps are so low it doesn't matter. With respect to longevity, I'd be a lot more worried about the jacks than the caps or any of the other electronics. It's not like vintage speaker amps where there actually is a lot of heat and caps probably do need replacing. There are ceramic and film caps elsewhere, including for DC blocking between stages (i.e. there is a coupling capacitor, so the design has capacitors in the signal path, which some audiophiles take moral exception to).
> 
> The first page here is the BOM:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B52Awjeyc5zKYWViZjlhNzItZDBmYi00YjA4LTk1NzgtZTMwNTAzMWQ3Y2Iy/view?ddrp=1&hl=en_US&pli=1
> 
> You can find more details about the "why" for some of the parts here:
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/o2-design-process.html
> 
> More info here including links (also dig through for a bit more on the ODAC):
> http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/o2-summary.html
> 
> The designer is MIA; here are some notes by JDS Labs on the ODAC Rev B:
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1003


OMG TYVM for all this good info







i am now 1% smarter









the reason i brought up the caps is because over time electrolytic caps crystallize even if it doesn't evaporate. i know this is only an issue if you don't run power through it for an extended amount of time but i guess i'm just OCD about that









does anyone know if using poly/solid caps change the acoustic characteristics of the sound?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> OMG TYVM for all this good info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am now 1% smarter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the reason i brought up the caps is because over time electrolytic caps crystallize even if it doesn't evaporate. i know this is only an issue if you don't run power through it for an extended amount of time but i guess i'm just OCD about that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone know if using poly/solid caps change the acoustic characteristics of the sound?


If you want to know more about circuitry for DACs and amps, you can PM @Tjj226 Angel. But I tend to see both electrolytic and polymer capacitors in amps and DACs.


----------



## mikeaj

Just be warned there's a large segment of the audio world that is made of varying degrees of part swappers, adherents to expensive, boutique brands for all kinds of passive components and some of the chips. There is a lot said but not a lot done to actually test differences. A lot of times new replacement parts, while nominally better in some respects, are worse in areas that matter with respect to the actual usage in the circuit. This can degrade stability, noise, distortion, etc. though not necessarily by any audible amount. Or it could improve things, again, not necessarily by any audible amount. But nevertheless some people will think they hear a difference. It's just all very hard to do a real A/B comparison by ear, especially when A is a device before a change and B is the device afterwards, because memory isn't that good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> does anyone know if using poly/solid caps change the acoustic characteristics of the sound?


Again, it all depends on usage. Some parts have almost no impact. Others matter a lot more. Point to a circuit and ask about a specific cap.

Also, what we're talking about here is just the electronics. Nothing acoustic is involved. To get anything acoustic we need to drive some mechanical systems-generally involving magnets and a physical component designed to move, which gets pushed around by changing electrical currents and so changing magnetic fields-to produce sound waves. And let me tell you, the precision available in electronics these days is a lot higher than for mechanical systems operating out in space, and acoustic interactions are always a challenge.

We're looking at the electronics that take a signal, amplify it, and drive the electromechanical transducers. In other words, the circuit deals with an input electrical signal and an output electrical signal (that which drives the transducers). You can evaluate in which ways the output is similar to and different from the input. To make a difference in the sounds waves, given the same mechanical and acoustic setup*, you need a change in the output electrical signal.

If you are looking for high fidelity in the traditional meaning of the phrase, then this implies that the output electrical signal look as close to the input as possible, other than a linear scale factor. In other words, if you have a system that works well enough under certain operating conditions, the only changes you can make to it in terms of fidelity would be (1) to make it measurably but inconsequentially better or (2) to make it worse. That said, "better" and "worse" are oversimplifications. Something could potentially be better in some respects maybe but worse in others, for example.

*note that for headphones, pads sinking into your head slightly or headphone positioning being a little bit different change all these things acoustically. For speakers, your exact position in the room matters a lot, at least relative to a lot of other things.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> OMG TYVM for all this good info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am now 1% smarter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the reason i brought up the caps is because over time electrolytic caps crystallize even if it doesn't evaporate. i know this is only an issue if you don't run power through it for an extended amount of time but i guess i'm just OCD about that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone know if using poly/solid caps change the acoustic characteristics of the sound?


Mikeaj is pretty much right.

I would just like to add that you can kind of use a general rule of thumb and say that if a capacitor is in the audio signal path, then you want to use a high quality capacitor.

If the capacitor is doing something else, then you will want to use a CHEAP high quality capacitor with tighter tolerances.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Mikeaj is pretty much right.
> 
> I would just like to add that you can kind of use a general rule of thumb and say that if a capacitor is in the audio signal path, then you want to use a high quality capacitor.
> 
> If the capacitor is doing something else, then you will want to use a CHEAP high quality capacitor with tighter tolerances.


ahh ok so it like what mikeaj said, it depends on where the cap is used. and i suppose, unlike tubes, the type of caps used matters less then the delivery mechanism (cans/speakers)?

tyvm everyone for having the patience to put up with my ignorance, but it's questions I've been wanting to ask for awhile now

now... 2nd question







acoustically speaking would it be better to get the O2 and ODAC as separate units to keep them from interfering with each other? or is the amount of EMI involved not worth the separation of the amp from the DAC? i guessing the amount of power involved doesn't generate enough interference to warrant the addition of a connection cable between the 2 units?


----------



## lurker2501

There's currently a massdrop sell going on for O2 amp: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier
Is it a good deal and should I snag it or there are cheaper options?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> There's currently a massdrop sell going on for O2 amp: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier
> Is it a good deal and should I snag it or there are cheaper options?


It's a great deal IMO though it would be cheaper DIY if you are into that sort of thing.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Mikeaj is pretty much right.
> 
> I would just like to add that you can kind of use a general rule of thumb and say that if a capacitor is in the audio signal path, then you want to use a high quality capacitor.
> 
> If the capacitor is doing something else, then you will want to use a CHEAP high quality capacitor with tighter tolerances.
> 
> 
> 
> ahh ok so it like what mikeaj said, it depends on where the cap is used. and i suppose, unlike tubes, the type of caps used matters less then the delivery mechanism (cans/speakers)?
> 
> tyvm everyone for having the patience to put up with my ignorance, but it's questions I've been wanting to ask for awhile now
> 
> now... 2nd question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> acoustically speaking would it be better to get the O2 and ODAC as separate units to keep them from interfering with each other? or is the amount of EMI involved not worth the separation of the amp from the DAC? i guessing the amount of power involved doesn't generate enough interference to warrant the addition of a connection cable between the 2 units?
Click to expand...

If you use the wrong cap (I mean, randomly pick one out of the bag), depending on the scenario, you could have a part fail, the circuit go unstable, very degraded performance, or whatever else. Assuming you get the nominal capacitance right, it still depends, but really, this is all a bunch of overgeneralizations. Using a cap that's not supposed to take negative voltages is a pretty bad idea if it's used in a situation where say half the time the voltage is negative.

I guess the point is that it matters, but what the designer picked was probably a reasonable choice for that particular application unless we're talking some fly-by-night Chinese audio operation dumping garbage, and/or something extremely cost constrained.

Putting the DAC and the amp in separate boxes may help slightly. But probably not by any amount here that you should care about. In addition to switching frequency, you'd need to look at the current (power, as you say) and susceptibility of the designs to emit and receive interference, general noise rejection properties at high frequencies

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> There's currently a massdrop sell going on for O2 amp: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-amplifier
> Is it a good deal and should I snag it or there are cheaper options?


$80 isn't even much more than the cost of components in single-unit quantities (the enclosure, front panel, and AC adapter are like $30 together, with the board and circuit being around $30 too, before shipping). Mayflower typical price these days is $100, it looks like. So you save $20 plus shipping here.


----------



## psyclum

I may end up getting just the ODAC and plug it into my preamp in my stereo system. let the preamp handle the headphone amp part of the equation may be the best solution for me here.

thx for all the help everyone


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> ahh ok so it like what mikeaj said, it depends on where the cap is used. and i suppose, unlike tubes, the type of caps used matters less then the delivery mechanism (cans/speakers)?
> 
> tyvm everyone for having the patience to put up with my ignorance, but it's questions I've been wanting to ask for awhile now
> 
> now... 2nd question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> acoustically speaking would it be better to get the O2 and ODAC as separate units to keep them from interfering with each other? or is the amount of EMI involved not worth the separation of the amp from the DAC? i guessing the amount of power involved doesn't generate enough interference to warrant the addition of a connection cable between the 2 units?


Wellllllll I would not look at it like that. I would say that the caps will make a difference on how your amp performs as a whole. And obviously your amp is just as important as your cans or speakers if not more so.

At the end of the day as long as you are using good quality caps, you should be fine.

As for your second question, it really does not matter. I have heard both, they sound the same, so what ever.

The only thing I would tell you to do is get separate units simple so that you can upgrade a bit easier and so that if something breaks, you can just easily swap it out.


----------



## NFL

Currently using a pair of Aurvana Live's; and while I enjoy their sound, the fit isn't the best around my ears. Can someone recommend a good alternative for me, something with a larger cup? Primary usage is gaming, but will also use them form music.


----------



## lurker2501

Another noob question. I have a Xonar DG. Do I need o2 dac/amp for Superlux 668d/ Dayton entry level speakers to feel the difference in sound quality or I'm netter off with a soundcard?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFL*
> 
> Currently using a pair of Aurvana Live's; and while I enjoy their sound, the fit isn't the best around my ears. Can someone recommend a good alternative for me, something with a larger cup? Primary usage is gaming, but will also use them form music.


- Budget?
- Music preferences?
- Sound card, amp, receiver?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Another noob question. I have a Xonar DG. Do I need o2 dac/amp for Superlux 668d/ Dayton entry level speakers to feel the difference in sound quality or I'm netter off with a soundcard?


For the Supberlux 668d probably not...


----------



## NFL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> - Budget?
> - Music preferences?
> - Sound card, amp, receiver?


~$175
Rock, Trance, Techno
Realtek ALC1150, no amp/reciever


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Another noob question. I have a Xonar DG. Do I need o2 dac/amp for Superlux 668d/ Dayton entry level speakers to feel the difference in sound quality or I'm netter off with a soundcard?


I'd recommend putting a few hundred into either a new DAC/amp headphone combo or a Dac/amp speaker combo. Speakers are better for the money in my experience, but headphones have an obvious convenience to them.


----------



## mistersprinkles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfaOSYiPj7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVkqeqQtdHM

I have these. Presonus Eris 4.5

Once they break in they sound very good for $150 USD and they are good with all the music you listed. They can thump authoritatively to techno without sounding whompy. You can screw around with the bass, treble, and midrange on the back of the speaker. Good stuff. I'm very happy with my purchase. Had them since April. I've run them with a DAC and without. Honestly, with Windows 10, my crappy ALC892 sounds almost as good as the $250 ARCAM rPAC I was using. Not quite as good mind you, but close.

I recommend these speakers.


----------



## kayzer

hi,

Up until now I used a seinheiser 202HD and now I bought a AKG Q701. Can you guys recomend me some amp or amp/dac combo in order for me to take a good value from this headphones for gamming mostly and then music/movies?

I've search quite a bit but can't decide what to get and I'm lost in fiio e10k, o2, schiit, etc :S

thanks in advance.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayzer*
> 
> hi,
> 
> Up until now I used a seinheiser 202HD and now I bought a AKG Q701. Can you guys recomend me some amp or amp/dac combo in order for me to take a good value from this headphones for gamming mostly and then music/movies?
> 
> I've search quite a bit but can't decide what to get and I'm lost in fiio e10k, o2, schiit, etc :S
> 
> thanks in advance.


What is your budget? Also you don't need a fancy "audiophile grade" DAC and amp for gaming and movies. Maybe just get a Creative Sound Blaster Z and call it a day.


----------



## kayzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> What is your budget? Also you don't need a fancy "audiophile grade" DAC and amp for gaming and movies. Maybe just get a Creative Sound Blaster Z and call it a day.


I would like to spend the less possible but use the headphones to its full potencial. between 75 and 200€ at most.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayzer*
> 
> I would like to spend the less possible but use the headphones to its full potencial. between 75 and 200€ at most.


A Sound Blaster Z will allow you to use it to its full potential for gaming and probably movies too. Not for music, but then again AKG's are known to scale well with $500+ amps which you don't need.


----------



## kayzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> A Sound Blaster Z will allow you to use it to its full potential for gaming and probably movies too. Not for music, but then again AKG's are known to scale well with $500+ amps which you don't need.


aren't sound cards supposed to be bad?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayzer*
> 
> aren't sound cards supposed to be bad?


They are not supposed to be bad.


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kayzer*
> 
> aren't sound cards supposed to be bad?
> 
> 
> 
> They are not supposed to be bad.
Click to expand...

Typically I find that other options are a better value.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phillyd*
> 
> Typically I find that other options are a better value.


Depends what price you get them at, I got my Xonar DX for $40.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Depends what price you get them at, I got my Xonar DX for $40.


Same here, cheap good soundcards are always a good deal. Although I have been thinking about replacing mine to fix groundloop issues.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> Depends what price you get them at, I got my Xonar DX for $40.
> 
> 
> 
> Same here, cheap good soundcards are always a good deal. Although I have been thinking about replacing mine to fix groundloop issues.
Click to expand...

I actually prefer my DX to something like a Modi. I get an EQ with the DX's software that doesn't break my entire OS like all the other OS-wide EQs I have tried. And it doesn't take up some of my few USB ports.


----------



## Sevada88

If I go for a soundcard, how would I connect both my speakers and headset to it?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> If I go for a soundcard, how would I connect both my speakers and headset to it?


By getting a Sound Blaster Z which has dedicated ports for both the headset and speakers.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Sigh...

Get the schiit stack. Don't get a sound card. They suck. Get the modi with the magni 2 uber ($248 total) and you can hook all your schnizz to it.


----------



## Sevada88

I am having a bit of trouble finding those on their website. Can you show me which ones you mean?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I am having a bit of trouble finding those on their website. Can you show me which ones you mean?


Schiit stuff?
Use the drop-down list with "Version" written right next to it.

But getting a Schiit stack for Sennheiser HD201 and Logitech X-230?
*Not worth it no matter how you look at it.* Just get the Creative Sound Blaster Z or something similar, like Fiio E10k which also has line-out for speakers.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Schiit stuff?
> Use the drop-down list with "Version" written right next to it.
> 
> But getting a Schiit stack for Sennheiser HD201 and Logitech X-230?
> *Not worth it no matter how you look at it.* Just get the Creative Sound Blaster Z or something similar, like Fiio E10k which also has line-out for speakers.


But which one do I go for? Uber? B stock? What's the difference?

Don't mind my sigrig, it's not up-to-date. I still have the X-230 speakers but the headphones are long gone. I am currently looking for a nice headphone/headset. I am looking at the Sennheiser Game Zero since I do a lot of online gaming. Or I will go for a headphone/mic combo.

My speakers will also be replaced. This time I am going for a nice kickass 2.1 setup. Haven't decided which one yet. That's also the reason why I want to buy a nice DAC/AMP; I want to go for quality sound this time.


----------



## pez

If you want to go crazy with the speakers, one up and go with a set of headphones and standalone mic. We've got quite a few people here able to get you situated with the right pair of headphones and the right microphone setup as well. So tell us:

Budget?
Gaming AND Music? And what kinda music?

There's more I'm forgetting, but that's a good start.


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> But which one do I go for? Uber? B stock? What's the difference?
> 
> Don't mind my sigrig, it's not up-to-date. I still have the X-230 speakers but the headphones are long gone. I am currently looking for a nice headphone/headset. I am looking at the Sennheiser Game Zero since I do a lot of online gaming. Or I will go for a headphone/mic combo.
> 
> My speakers will also be replaced. This time I am going for a nice kickass 2.1 setup. Haven't decided which one yet. That's also the reason why I want to buy a nice DAC/AMP; I want to go for quality sound this time.


Pick up the Schiit modi 2 and the Schiit magni 2 uber. Go on Amazon and pick up Sennheiser HD598's ($150) and an antlion modmic. (mic goes to your PC, headphones go to the magni). The Magni has a second set of line outs on the back that you can hook to powered speakers to get the benefits of the DAC for them as well.

While you're on Schiit's site, pick up the short PYST RCA cables and a USB cable so you can actually hook the stuff up when you get it.

Have a look at Vanatoo Transparent Ones and KEF X300A's.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> Pick up the Schiit modi 2 and the Schiit magni 2 uber. Go on Amazon and pick up Sennheiser HD598's ($150) and an antlion modmic. (mic goes to your PC, headphones go to the magni). The Magni has a second set of line outs on the back that you can hook to powered speakers to get the benefits of the DAC for them as well.
> 
> While you're on Schiit's site, pick up the short PYST RCA cables and a USB cable so you can actually hook the stuff up when you get it.
> 
> Have a look at Vanatoo Transparent Ones and KEF X300A's.


Ok so that would be Modi 2 version Modi 2 for $99 for the DAC and Magni 2 version Magni 2 Uber for $149 for the AMP. Correct? What is the difference between the Modi 2 and Modi 2 Uber?

For the USB cable, I don't see it listed on their website. Can you link me to it?

Both of those speakers are a bit expensive for me. Something in the $250 price range would be better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> If you want to go crazy with the speakers, one up and go with a set of headphones and standalone mic. We've got quite a few people here able to get you situated with the right pair of headphones and the right microphone setup as well. So tell us:
> 
> Budget?
> Gaming AND Music? And what kinda music?
> 
> There's more I'm forgetting, but that's a good start.


My budget is about $750. This should cover the DAC, the AMP, headphones and mic, and the speakers. Do you think I should go for a headset instead? The OP recommends the Sennheiser G4ME ZERO. Maybe that would be a better option for me since I do quite a bit of online gaming.

Gaming and music indeed. I am one of those people who listens to more than one genre. I listen to house, pop, rock, country, rap, hip hop...pretty much anything.

EDIT: okay, I should say that my most favorite genre is house.


----------



## pez

My first instinct is to recommend something from the Beyer line. The DT990 comes to mind. Has a v-shaped type of sound sig taht should be great for music, and also has a decent soundstage for gaming. Others will chime in with soem more recommendations, too, though. The Magni and Modi (uber if you can fit it in there) should take care of that and leave plenty of budget for a pair of speakers. Also, the DT990 are currently on sale for $120 after a $30 rebate (see here).


----------



## Sevada88

The
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> My first instinct is to recommend something from the Beyer line. The DT990 comes to mind. Has a v-shaped type of sound sig taht should be great for music, and also has a decent soundstage for gaming. Others will chime in with soem more recommendations, too, though. The Magni and Modi (uber if you can fit it in there) should take care of that and leave plenty of budget for a pair of speakers. Also, the DT990 are currently on sale for $120 after a $30 rebate (see here).


What about thise one? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-dt990

Also, why is Massdrop claiming a price of $430 while the link you provided says normal price is $200?

And lastly, what do I do for a mic?


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> The
> What about thise one? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-dt990
> 
> Also, why is Massdrop claiming a price of $430 while the link you provided says normal price is $200?
> 
> And lastly, what do I do for a mic?


There are 3 different versions of the DT990:
1. DT990 Pro
2. DT990 Premium
3. DT990 LE

The Premium model is designed (the looks) for the normal consumers who want blingbling while the Pro model is designed for studio/professional use where usually blingbling means that it's Schiit. They are basically the same headphone but with different looks.
Of course there is also the smexy LE.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> The
> What about thise one? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-dt990
> 
> Also, why is Massdrop claiming a price of $430 while the link you provided says normal price is $200?
> 
> And lastly, what do I do for a mic?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> There are 3 different versions of the DT990:
> 1. DT990 Pro
> 2. DT990 Premium
> 3. DT990 LE
> 
> The Premium model is designed (the looks) for the normal consumers who want blingbling while the Pro model is designed for studio/professional use where usually blingbling means that it's Schiit. They are basically the same headphone but with different looks.
> Of course there is also the smexy LE.


This^.

That one on Massdrop would be a good pick. I'd pick it for the looks, honestly. And it'll need a bit more power. I'm not sure if anyone here has that setup, but I think it might do you very well as a good 'budget' setup. If it provides enough power for the 'phones, it's a more than great start into the world of headphone audio.

Update to the site is looking pretty snazzy.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> There are 3 different versions of the DT990:
> 1. DT990 Pro
> 2. DT990 Premium
> 3. DT990 LE
> 
> The Premium model is designed (the looks) for the normal consumers who want blingbling while the Pro model is designed for studio/professional use where usually blingbling means that it's Schiit. They are basically the same headphone but with different looks.
> Of course there is also the smexy LE.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> This^.
> 
> That one on Massdrop would be a good pick. I'd pick it for the looks, honestly. And it'll need a bit more power. I'm not sure if anyone here has that setup, but I think it might do you very well as a good 'budget' setup. If it provides enough power for the 'phones, it's a more than great start into the world of headphone audio.
> 
> Update to the site is looking pretty snazzy.


Ok thank you both!

So, Beyer DT990. The one on Massdrop is the 600 ohm version. I didn't quite get that. Would the Schiit stack be able to power it? OR should I just go for the 250 ohm?


----------



## mikeaj

Schiit doesn't make a standalone amp that can't handle 600 ohms Beyers.

YMMV if attempting to listen to classical recordings with passages at -50 dBFS at front-row live volume levels.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeaj*
> 
> Schiit doesn't make a standalone amp that can't handle 600 ohms Beyers.
> 
> YMMV if attempting to listen to classical recordings with passages at -50 dBFS at front-row live volume levels.


"can't handle 600 ohms Beyers" can or can't handle?

Sorry, I am getting more and more confused. There is too much info here and I am still not sure what I should get with what.

If I go for the Schiit stack (DAC and amp), what headphone and speakers do I need?

Also there is something else I don't get. If I read correctly, the DAC connects to your PC via USB. The DAC and amp connect to each other via PYST RCA. Both the DAC and amp are powered. The headphones connect to the front of the amp and the powered speakers connect to the back of the amp. Is this correct?


----------



## mistersprinkles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> "can't handle 600 ohms Beyers" can or can't handle?
> 
> Sorry, I am getting more and more confused. There is too much info here and I am still not sure what I should get with what.
> 
> If I go for the Schiit stack (DAC and amp), what headphone and speakers do I need?
> 
> Also there is something else I don't get. If I read correctly, the DAC connects to your PC via USB. The DAC and amp connect to each other via PYST RCA. Both the DAC and amp are powered. The headphones connect to the front of the amp and the powered speakers connect to the back of the amp. Is this correct?


He's saying the amps can handle the headphones. I wouldn't pair them with the Valhalla or the Fulla but anything else from Schiit would be fine.

Headphones and speakers are very personal things. What one person thinks sounds good will sound bad to another person. I'd suggest Oppo PM-3 and Vanatoo transparent ones or JBL LSR's but you may not like those.

How about you go cheap? Sennheiser HD598's and Presonus Eris 4.5's.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> He's saying the amps can handle the headphones. I wouldn't pair them with the Valhalla or the Fulla but anything else from Schiit would be fine.
> 
> Headphones and speakers are very personal things. What one person thinks sounds good will sound bad to another person. I'd suggest Oppo PM-3 and Vanatoo transparent ones or JBL LSR's but you may not like those.
> 
> How about you go cheap? Sennheiser HD598's and Presonus Eris 4.5's.


Ok got it.

Yeah I am not looking for very expensive stuff. Neither am I looking for the cheapest. My budget of 750 should cover DAC, amp, headphones and speakers. This 750 is really the max. Since the Schiit stack is 250, I got 500 left for the speakers and headphones. If I can spend less than 500 on those 2, great!

Always been a big fan of Sennheiser. The HD598 is really nice, I have read good reviews, although I don't like the color.

Also, I am liking your recommendation for the antlion modmic. That one sounds great.


----------



## mistersprinkles

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Professional-Studio-Monitor/dp/B00F1DEI8G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447721109&sr=8-1&keywords=JBL+lsr

http://schiit.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-598-Over-Ear-Headphones/dp/B0042A8CW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447721151&sr=8-1&keywords=HD+598









Shopping List

Schiit Modi 2

Schiit Magni 2 Uber

Sennheiser HD598

JBL LSR 305 (Pair)

RCA>RCA cable (Schiit PYST from Schiit website)

USB A>B cable (don't get a crappy one it)

RCA> 1/4" TS cable (Amazon)

Total cost without shipping/taxes would be about $660.


----------



## carlhil2

Oops, wrong thread..


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mistersprinkles*
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Professional-Studio-Monitor/dp/B00F1DEI8G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447721109&sr=8-1&keywords=JBL+lsr
> 
> http://schiit.com/
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-598-Over-Ear-Headphones/dp/B0042A8CW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447721151&sr=8-1&keywords=HD+598
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shopping List
> 
> Schiit Modi 2
> 
> Schiit Magni 2 Uber
> 
> Sennheiser HD598
> 
> JBL LSR 305 (Pair)
> 
> RCA>RCA cable (Schiit PYST from Schiit website)
> 
> USB A>B cable (don't get a crappy one it)
> 
> RCA> 1/4" TS cable (Amazon)
> 
> Total cost without shipping/taxes would be about $660.


Excellent! Thank you. This will give me a good start. The price is perfect since I have to get a mic as well which costs about $45.

I wish the HD 598 would come in black or other color.


----------



## pez

What genre is your primary when listening to music? If anything bassy, and you'll listen a good deal on headphones, then I'd steer you a bit away from the HD598. However, if your music listening will be mostly on speakers and gaming on headphones, than that is a perfect setup. And TBH, those headphones look much better in person. When I first saw them, I immediately thought 'a face only a mother could love'.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> What genre is your primary when listening to music? If anything bassy, and you'll listen a good deal on headphones, then I'd steer you a bit away from the HD598. However, if your music listening will be mostly on speakers and gaming on headphones, than that is a perfect setup. And TBH, those headphones look much better in person. When I first saw them, I immediately thought 'a face only a mother could love'.


I listen to a lot of stuff. Can't really say I have one favorite. Maybe house but again, I listen to a lot of stuff. I turn on online radio and listen to whatever sounds good to me.

Indeed mostly gaming on headphones and music on speakers.

I actually found black version of the HD 598: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0126HISOO/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1447769636&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=hd+598+sennheiser&dpPl=1&dpID=41bMMAXlJZL&ref=plSrch

They are pricey, so that's a no go for me.

You are probably right, they look better in person.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I listen to a lot of stuff. Can't really say I have one favorite. Maybe house but again, I listen to a lot of stuff. I turn on online radio and listen to whatever sounds good to me.
> 
> Indeed mostly gaming on headphones and music on speakers.
> 
> I actually found black version of the HD 598: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0126HISOO/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1447769636&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=hd+598+sennheiser&dpPl=1&dpID=41bMMAXlJZL&ref=plSrch
> 
> They are pricey, so that's a no go for me.
> 
> You are probably right, they look better in person.


Well there's the option of the HD558 as well. It's said a mod can be done relatively cheap to obtain the same or like 95% of the 598. Athe price point of 200 though, the Beyer comes back into play







.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Well there's the option of the HD558 as well. It's said a mod can be done relatively cheap to obtain the same or like 95% of the 598. Athe price point of 200 though, the Beyer comes back into play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ok it's final. I am getting the 598. The color is just a minor flaw. Thank you all for your help!!


----------



## pez

Awesome. Please come back and share your impressions, for sure. Also, make sure you take a gander at [Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club and join us with some good discussion







.


----------



## Sevada88

Will do!

EDIT: one more thing, anyone have any experience with the AntLion Modmic? What's better uni or omni directional?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Will do!
> 
> EDIT: one more thing, anyone have any experience with the AntLion Modmic? What's better uni or omni directional?


I've used a ModMic 4.0, the original... which was uni I think. The sound is pretty decent. There are a lot of recordings using it you can find online. It's pretty good for what it does. But there's always the dilemma of handling the extra cabling, potentially accidentally knocking the boom, etc.

Omni will usually sound a little better and more natural, but it's going to pick up more background sounds. In an otherwise quiet environment it would probably be s little better, or different at the least.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Will do!
> 
> EDIT: one more thing, anyone have any experience with the AntLion Modmic? What's better uni or omni directional?


I like my ModMic. I've got one attached to my HD650 and it's worked great (got it last Christmas, actually). It's not the quality of a really expensive mic, but I believe for the features it offers and the quality I've experienced with it (I believe I have v4.0) build wise, it's a very appropriately price product.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I like my ModMic. I've got one attached to my HD650 and it's worked great (got it last Christmas, actually). It's not the quality of a really expensive mic, but I believe for the features it offers and the quality I've experienced with it (I believe I have v4.0) build wise, it's a very appropriately price product.


Which one do you have, omni or uni directional?


----------



## pez

That's a good question. I'm assuming whichever configuration existed before they made two different models. I got mine last Christmas. I remember v4 being new, and I remember the only 'option' was a muteless or one with a mute function. From what I can tell from the description, it appears uni-directional was what was present prior to the different model's introductions.


----------



## Sevada88

Ok uni it is. I guess more noise cancellation is better.


----------



## Nephalem

Ok question for any willing to answer. I have a pair of ATH-M50X Headphones, which I love however for long sessions my ears touch the driver and get sore. Anyway, I've been looking at trying some open back headphones for quite a while, and if possible I would like to get a pair that kind of match the M50X sound as I use them for mainly listening to EDM, House, Glitch, and gaming. I have been looking at the Beyerdynamic DT990 however I am slightly concerned about people talking about the harsh highs with them. The problem is being in rural Australia I have no access to being able to test headphones before buying them. So I was hoping that someone here has a set of open headphones they use for a similar purpose that they could recommend, or even somebody who switched from the M50X to the DT990 that could give me some ideas as to the main differences that you noticed. TIA


----------



## eperelez

Amazon.com Announces Eight Days of Holiday Deals

Enjoy new deals every five minutes starting Friday, November 20 through Friday, November 27

"Save more than 50% on Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition Over-Ear Headphones in Black (Amazon Exclusive)"

I'm hoping to get in on this deal, but I always miss out on the good stuff...


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eperelez*
> 
> Amazon.com Announces Eight Days of Holiday Deals
> 
> Enjoy new deals every five minutes starting Friday, November 20 through Friday, November 27
> 
> "Save more than 50% on Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition Over-Ear Headphones in Black (Amazon Exclusive)"
> 
> I'm hoping to get in on this deal, but I always miss out on the good stuff...


Does Amazon.de do it as well?


----------



## eperelez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Does Amazon.de do it as well?


I'm not sure how it works as far as other countries.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Ok question for any willing to answer. I have a pair of ATH-M50X Headphones, which I love however for long sessions my ears touch the driver and get sore. Anyway, I've been looking at trying some open back headphones for quite a while, and if possible I would like to get a pair that kind of match the M50X sound as I use them for mainly listening to EDM, House, Glitch, and gaming. I have been looking at the Beyerdynamic DT990 however I am slightly concerned about people talking about the harsh highs with them. The problem is being in rural Australia I have no access to being able to test headphones before buying them. So I was hoping that someone here has a set of open headphones they use for a similar purpose that they could recommend, or even somebody who switched from the M50X to the DT990 that could give me some ideas as to the main differences that you noticed. TIA


There's velour pads for the M50 if you haven't tried those. Unfortunately velour is usually less stiff and may worsen the problem here.

You won't get as much bass in an open headphone, as you would with a closed back design, but it is usually a better quality bass with less 'slam'.

There is a closed AKG K5xx model that a few have recommended previously. It's not recommended a whole lot around here, but Shure makes some really solid headphones, too. More specifically the SRH-840 and 940. i'm a bit unfamiliar with cheaper open designs that are bassy, or if I am, it's slipped my mind ATM. Others will surely chime in







.

Edit:

The DT990 is definitely a good potential option. For some reason I completely ignored that tidbit. I'm pretty sure you'll have plenty of clearance in the cups, too. Seriously comfy headphones.

The treble of the DT770 eventually led me to upgrade, however I believe that was partially due to the equipment I was using. I've never heard the M50 to compare, though, so I'm useless there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Ok uni it is. I guess more noise cancellation is better.


I don't think you can go wrong either way. I generally use in-game chat/push-to-talk, so it's not as big of a factor to me







.


----------



## Aventadoor

Wait for Philips Fidelio X2 sale!

Philips Fidelio X2 & Hifiman H400S should be added to this list! Also H400i and HE560.
All pretty damn good headphones if you want something else than HD600/650 or an "upgrade"


----------



## Nephalem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> There's velour pads for the M50 if you haven't tried those. Unfortunately velour is usually less stiff and may worsen the problem here.
> 
> You won't get as much bass in an open headphone, as you would with a closed back design, but it is usually a better quality bass with less 'slam'.
> 
> There is a closed AKG K5xx model that a few have recommended previously. It's not recommended a whole lot around here, but Shure makes some really solid headphones, too. More specifically the SRH-840 and 940. i'm a bit unfamiliar with cheaper open designs that are bassy, or if I am, it's slipped my mind ATM. Others will surely chime in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The DT990 is definitely a good potential option. For some reason I completely ignored that tidbit. I'm pretty sure you'll have plenty of clearance in the cups, too. Seriously comfy headphones.
> 
> The treble of the DT770 eventually led me to upgrade, however I believe that was partially due to the equipment I was using. I've never heard the M50 to compare, though, so I'm useless there.


Thanks for the reply, I have read a LOT more reviews since posting that question and I am fairly certain I will end up going for the DT990 they seem to be exactly what I'm after. Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is the fact that this may lead me to upgrade my trust Audioengine D1 due to it's output impedance being 47 Ohms and the DT990 Pro being 250 Ohm, ah well I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Edit: Yeah I've seen the Velour pads but I don't think they'd help. I have/am considering getting a set of the Brainwavz HM5(?) pads as they apparently fit and give more cushioning. The issue appears to be the padding sinks away and my ears rub on the plastic under the pads.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I have read a LOT more reviews since posting that question and I am fairly certain I will end up going for the DT990 they seem to be exactly what I'm after. Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is the fact that this may lead me to upgrade my trust Audioengine D1 due to it's output impedance being 47 Ohms and the DT990 Pro being 250 Ohm, ah well I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


Philips Fidelio X2 are pretty boss and often on sale for similar or cheaper then DT990. I highly recommend those.


----------



## Nephalem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Philips Fidelio X2 are pretty boss and often on sale for similar or cheaper then DT990. I highly recommend those.


Those do look nice however in Australia those things are near $400 compared to $250 for the DT990, I don't think there is going be to be a big enough to close that gap, but I shall keep my eye out as it is still a few weeks until I will get them might be a decent Boxing Day sale on them. Thanks


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Those do look nice however in Australia those things are near $400 compared to $250 for the DT990, I don't think there is going be to be a big enough to close that gap, but I shall keep my eye out as it is still a few weeks until I will get them might be a decent Boxing Day sale on them. Thanks


Let me then give you a suggestion. If they dont come on sale, go on Innerfidelity.com and check out the headphones on wall of fame.
Then you will not get disappointed! Not saying DT990 necessarily are bad, but there are many options.


----------



## Sevada88

I had to come back with 1 more question. If I could get the Sennheiser HD 600 for a very low price (getting it from a friend who bought it 2 months ago), would you recommend the HD 600 over the HD 598 for gaming and music?


----------



## Aventadoor

Yes if you could provide the necessary amplification


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Yes if you could provide the necessary amplification


You mean dac and amp? The Schiit Magni 2 Uber, would that be enough to drive it?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> You mean dac and amp? The Schiit Magni 2 Uber, would that be enough to drive it?


The Magni 2 Uber is a good place to start. The HD 600 scales well with higher end amps though.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The Magni 2 Uber is a good place to start. The HD 600 scales well with higher end amps though.


So I won't use my HD 600 to its full potential with the Magni 2 Uber?


----------



## Aventadoor

Correct


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Correct


Which dac + amp combination is good for the HD 600?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I had to come back with 1 more question. If I could get the Sennheiser HD 600 for a very low price (getting it from a friend who bought it 2 months ago), would you recommend the HD 600 over the HD 598 for gaming and music?


100% yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Which dac + amp combination is good for the HD 600?


With a really good tube amp, the HD600 is amazing. A Modi 2 Uber and a Vali could definitely tide you over for quite some time, especially since the price is right on the HD600.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> 100% yes.
> With a really good tube amp, the HD600 is amazing. A Modi 2 Uber and a Vali could definitely tide you over for quite some time, especially since the price is right on the HD600.


I am getting the HD 600 for 200 euros.

With Vali, can I hook up my speakers to it as well?


----------



## pez

Ah crap I forgot about that :/. You wouldn't have pre-amps on the Vali :/. However, the Magni 2 Uber I've read is a bit warmer than the original Magni and I don't think you should see any issues with the pairing.


----------



## D3XXX

HD 600 are warm and muddy (in terms of definition/detail) enough without adding a tube amp, provided you believe the Scripture and not scientific evidence (that humans cannot in fact detect solid state from tube in double blind).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nephalem*
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I have read a LOT more reviews since posting that question and I am fairly certain I will end up going for the DT990 they seem to be exactly what I'm after. Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is the fact that this may lead me to upgrade my trust Audioengine D1 due to it's output impedance being 47 Ohms and the DT990 Pro being 250 Ohm, ah well I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
> 
> Edit: Yeah I've seen the Velour pads but I don't think they'd help. I have/am considering getting a set of the Brainwavz HM5(?) pads as they apparently fit and give more cushioning. The issue appears to be the padding sinks away and my ears rub on the plastic under the pads.


The real DT 990 are the 600 ohm ones. The pro models are of inferior quality. One of the comfiest and best bang for buck headphones out there.


----------



## atomicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> The real DT 990 are the 600 ohm ones. The pro models are of inferior quality. One of the comfiest and best bang for buck headphones out there.


Well they may be inferior in comparison to the 600's, but in and of themselves the 990 Pro 250's are fantastic headphones, I have a pair myself, super comfy and amazing value for what you get.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atomicus*
> 
> Well they may be inferior in comparison to the 600's, but in and of themselves the 990 Pro 250's are fantastic headphones, I have a pair myself, super comfy and amazing value for what you get.


Can't say for myself as I have only ever seen them in person, but beyerdynamic tends to release good stuff.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> HD 600 are warm and muddy (in terms of definition/detail) enough without adding a tube amp, provided you believe the Scripture and not scientific evidence (that humans cannot in fact detect solid state from tube in double blind).


In comparison to what, exactly? Sure they're not the most crystal-clear set of cans, but as far as a 'neutral' can goes, and the price range it now fits in, it's one of the 'clearer' choices. If by 'muddy', you mean it doesn't have peaky treble like the Beyers, then sure. The only headphone I can think that beats it out for sheer clarity is the AKG K/Q7xx line, and that's for the sheer fact that they are not really bassy enough to be muddy.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> In comparison to what, exactly? Sure they're not the most crystal-clear set of cans, but as far as a 'neutral' can goes, and the price range it now fits in, it's one of the 'clearer' choices. If by 'muddy', you mean it doesn't have peaky treble like the Beyers, then sure. The only headphone I can think that beats it out for sheer clarity is the AKG K/Q7xx line, and that's for the sheer fact that they are not really bassy enough to be muddy.


not muddy as in regards to FR curve. Muddy as in definition/clarity/resolution.

All I have on hand to compare to are the HD 800, LCD-2 and DT 990 600 ohm all balanced from headphone terminator, to headphone amp, to DAC. AKG are great if they don't own your head with that bumpy band. And Quincy jones can be had for dead cheap, but I'd say the HD 600 are definitely more "musical", the 70X had such a ridiculously huge soundstage it was really disorienting with some songs.

Great headphones I wasn't trying to trash talk them. I would say they are one of the more musical headphones I have head but there seems to be an ever so thin layer of Vaseline over the music landscape were it a picture.


----------



## atomicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> ...but there seems to be an ever so thin layer of Vaseline over the music landscape were it a picture.


What you do with your headphones in the privacy of your home is your own business...


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> not muddy as in regards to FR curve. Muddy as in definition/clarity/resolution.
> 
> All I have on hand to compare to are the HD 800, LCD-2 and DT 990 600 ohm all balanced from headphone terminator, to headphone amp, to DAC. AKG are great if they don't own your head with that bumpy band. And Quincy jones can be had for dead cheap, but I'd say the HD 600 are definitely more "musical", the 70X had such a ridiculously huge soundstage it was really disorienting with some songs.
> 
> Great headphones I wasn't trying to trash talk them. I would say they are one of the more musical headphones I have head but there seems to be an ever so thin layer of Vaseline over the music landscape were it a picture.


Ok, that's actually a very accurate description of what I would say about them. I just wanted to clear it up for me and everyone else







.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Ah crap I forgot about that :/. You wouldn't have pre-amps on the Vali :/. However, the Magni 2 Uber I've read is a bit warmer than the original Magni and I don't think you should see any issues with the pairing.


Good, the Modi 2 and Magni 2 Uber are perfect for my budget.


----------



## pez

Yeah, you will have a very solid first setup. A setup and price point I wish had existed when I was first getting into audio.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, you will have a very solid first setup. A setup and price point I wish had existed when I was first getting into audio.


Amen

Although since the iconic Audeze LCD-2 the industry has been getting much better in terms of pricing with the exception of electrostatics, Although the amps are the main fiscal caveat. Oppo has planar magnetic / orthodynamic headphones for 699.99 haven't heard them but given how orthodynamic headphones only really have weight as a drawback they probably anything in their price point away. I'd have sold my HD 800 long ago had I not gotten them new for 900 usd through a hook-up in Germany and we're they not so damned comfy and the LCD-2 so heavy


----------



## pez

Yeah, I'm waiting for a super convincing deal to really bring something like the LCD-2 into my collection. I've auditioned quite a few cans, and the HD650 just fit so well for me through various genres. That said, my bucket list still contains the K-1000 and the D7000.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

I get 15% off on Audeze headphones. I am going to wait to see if they have a Black Friday sale and if they do, whether or not I can stack my discount on top of them.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I'm waiting for a super convincing deal to really bring something like the LCD-2 into my collection. I've auditioned quite a few cans, and the HD650 just fit so well for me through various genres. That said, my bucket list still contains the K-1000 and the D7000.


Never heard the K-1000 I have owned the D7000 (denon I'm assuming) and while very comfy and musical and all-great performing for a closed back dynamic headphone it's nowhere near the LCD-2. I doubt there will be much of a deal on the LCD-2 as they already compete viably, and better by some metrics, than most if not all dynamic transducer headphones in terms of flat response and clarity, and square wave response (They are entirely unchallenged with 50hz squarewave plots as the excursion they can produce is beyond compare. Alex Rosson told me that in their internal testing they were able to get them to do 2 hz at 2 or 3 watts without breaking. They only draw-back is weight. If today I had funds to buy a T1, HD 800 etc. I'd get the LCD-2, no questions and use my beyers for gaming. So when they compete with headphones that are up to 50% more expensive, I don't see any incentive for Audeze to lower their pricing as performance-wise is already aggressive to say the least.


----------



## Aventadoor

Dont get Audeze.
If you really have to get Audeze, get pre-fazor version.
Ive had LCD-2 pre-azor, LCD-3f and LCD-X. The best Audeze headphones are the LCD-2 pre-fazor and X. Pre-fazor is the lushest and is really what Audeze is about.
Hifiman is better! Hifiman is much more comfertable and the tonal balance is better. They also have more airy sound and better soundstage.
Go read on Changstar/Superbestaudiofriends, they are known for hating a little on Audeze, but they are correct.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I get 15% off on Audeze headphones. I am going to wait to see if they have a Black Friday sale and if they do, whether or not I can stack my discount on top of them.


Oh is that so...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Never heard the K-1000 I have owned the D7000 (denon I'm assuming) and while very comfy and musical and all-great performing for a closed back dynamic headphone it's nowhere near the LCD-2. I doubt there will be much of a deal on the LCD-2 as they already compete viably, and better by some metrics, than most if not all dynamic transducer headphones in terms of flat response and clarity, and square wave response (They are entirely unchallenged with 50hz squarewave plots as the excursion they can produce is beyond compare. Alex Rosson told me that in their internal testing they were able to get them to do 2 hz at 2 or 3 watts without breaking. They only draw-back is weight. If today I had funds to buy a T1, HD 800 etc. I'd get the LCD-2, no questions and use my beyers for gaming. So when they compete with headphones that are up to 50% more expensive, I don't see any incentive for Audeze to lower their pricing as performance-wise is already aggressive to say the least.


Oh definitely. The D7K would be more of a utility headphone than anything. I wouldn't use it for anything outside of genre's like rap or EDM.

BTW, if you haven't, check out the headphone club thread, check it out. I think you'd be a great asset in helping us out in there when the time is right (people use this thread and that thread interchangeably







. Link is in my sig.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Dont get Audeze.
> If you really have to get Audeze, get pre-fazor version.
> Ive had LCD-2 pre-azor, LCD-3f and LCD-X. The best Audeze headphones are the LCD-2 pre-fazor and X. Pre-fazor is the lushest and is really what Audeze is about.
> Hifiman is better! Hifiman is much more comfertable and the tonal balance is better. They also have more airy sound and better soundstage.
> Go read on Changstar/Superbestaudiofriends, they are known for hating a little on Audeze, but they are correct.


Yeah, I wasn't truly impressed by any of the Audeze line before. They were very good, but I just wasn't awe'd by it. Maybe it's just something I have to try for myself with a bit of time.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Dont get Audeze.
> If you really have to get Audeze, get pre-fazor version.
> Ive had LCD-2 pre-azor, LCD-3f and LCD-X. The best Audeze headphones are the LCD-2 pre-fazor and X. Pre-fazor is the lushest and is really what Audeze is about.
> Hifiman is better! Hifiman is much more comfertable and the tonal balance is better. They also have more airy sound and better soundstage.
> Go read on Changstar/Superbestaudiofriends, they are known for hating a little on Audeze, but they are correct.


Sounds like you prefer a more neutral, accurate tonality. I really liked the sound of the LCD-3F when I heard it, but on the other hand I also liked HiFiMan more. I wouldn't buy either unless I was rich, I'm going the electrostatic route instead. I ordered a spritzer modified KGSS, the Stax SR-L700 will come next month.


----------



## Aventadoor

To be honest I think most are kinda biased, or they have only heard a few headphones, like Audeze, and not many from Hifiman.
HE-6 with Audeze pads and stereoamp... Its so much better then LCD-3 that its crazy...


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> To be honest I think most are kinda biased, or they have only heard a few headphones, like Audeze, and not many from Hifiman.
> HE-6 with Audeze pads and stereoamp... Its so much better then LCD-3 that its crazy...


I've always wanted to hear a well driven, modded HE-6. Probably never gonna happen unless I get one myself and mod it (and I'm pretty clumsy so who knows how that would go).


----------



## Aventadoor

HE-6 is very easy to "mod", u dont need Fuzzor. Fuzzor is if u have ****ty amplifier.
If you have a good stereoamp, it will reduce the treble issues alot, and then get Audeze pads and it will be perfect.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> To be honest I think most are kinda biased, or they have only heard a few headphones, like Audeze, and not many from Hifiman.
> HE-6 with Audeze pads and stereoamp... Its so much better then LCD-3 that its crazy...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I've always wanted to hear a well driven, modded HE-6. Probably never gonna happen unless I get one myself and mod it (and I'm pretty clumsy so who knows how that would go).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> HE-6 is very easy to "mod", u dont need Fuzzor. Fuzzor is if u have ****ty amplifier.
> If you have a good stereoamp, it will reduce the treble issues alot, and then get Audeze pads and it will be perfect.


I found the HE-6 to be very poorly constructed, uncomfortable, and just brighter than the LCD-2 which I wouldn't say are "dark" or what not. I can't remember if I had purchased the LCD-2 at that point or not, I don't believe I had, but I could be mistaken.

But the HE-6 were really overpriced IMO. I don't know what they go for now but I got to listen to the first production unit being sent around head-fi for reviews and it was so boring I didn't write more than 250 words because I didn't want to look like I was just trash talking them. They had their pros, but mostly cons and I mean I have a pre-rev 2 set of LCD-2 which aren't exactly the best made (slight differences in the handmade earpads which luckily do not impact the seal) but other than that they were much better designed, and I would say sounding than the HE-6, but lacking the brightness some people like.

I had a stereo amp that I tried them with (Muse 100) and my phoenix and I didn't find there was much of a difference if any. IMO the whole you need over 9000 watts to "truly hear them" is just a fabricated reason to excuse whats really nothing that special of a headphone.

Then again this was several years ago, maybe they have improved their production quality a lot.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Oh is that so...
> Oh definitely. The D7K would be more of a utility headphone than anything. I wouldn't use it for anything outside of genre's like rap or EDM.
> 
> BTW, if you haven't, check out the headphone club thread, check it out. I think you'd be a great asset in helping us out in there when the time is right (people use this thread and that thread interchangeably
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Link is in my sig.
> Yeah, I wasn't truly impressed by any of the Audeze line before. They were very good, but I just wasn't awe'd by it. Maybe it's just something I have to try for myself with a bit of time.


IIRC they ceased production of the D2000/D5000/D7000 a while back. TBH the D7000 were probably the single hardest pair of headphones to sell. Despite their coloration, they were profoundly musical and sublimely comfortable. For the mentioned genres, they would be well suited provided you aren't planning to blast them, I feel like they could have benefited a lot from a semi open design as having to play them at lower volumes to preserve the sound quality they produced was a main caveat, that and how insanely sensitive they were, IIRC I could use like step 1-5 on my phoenix wheras the LCD-2 balanced I sometimes go into the 20s. Single ended I can go into the 30s with the HD 800. That was one of the things that made them easier to part with was that I was really stuck in terms of volume range.

But what a comfy headset.

And thank you, I actually banned myself (self imposed, not an actual ban) from head-fi as I found it just ate up too much of my time haha. And I seem to have gotten back to deadly habits here. And it's been quite some time since I've owned Grados, AKG 702, W1000X, D7000, DX700, HD-600, D7000 etc that a lot would be going from memory.


----------



## pez

I used to spend a lot of time on there myself, but the community became diluted with a lot of people spreading misinformation, or just poor suggestions. I got on there time and time again to visit the HD650 appreciation thread, or the Schiit threads, but that's about it. It came to a point where my personal experience and time in the hobby literally meant nothing when giving suggestions, so I just stopped







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I used to spend a lot of time on there myself, but the community became diluted with a lot of people spreading misinformation, or just poor suggestions. I got on there time and time again to visit the HD650 appreciation thread, or the Schiit threads, but that's about it. It came to a point where my personal experience and time in the hobby literally meant nothing when giving suggestions, so I just stopped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah Jude sold the community out. A few of my friends made another site, but their obsession with cables and vacuum tubes has made it difficult for me to enjoy as, beyond aesthetics, there's nothing beneficial to having a tube amp, or expensive tube mods... Solid state w/ out negative feedback is vastly superior although no one can detect them blind. And cables are just the most ridiculous thing ever. There's a reason there's a standing prize for 1 million dollars to anyone who can beat chance in a double blind scenario.

All my cables are modded, but were made by my hands, using monoprice audiograde cabling which is inexpensive.

And the worst is people who have silver between two Eichmann bullets, with copper connectors.... it's like... how... do you logic? I can't even follow your train.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Yeah Jude sold the community out. A few of my friends made another site, but their obsession with cables and vacuum tubes has made it difficult for me to enjoy as, beyond aesthetics, there's nothing beneficial to having a tube amp, or expensive tube mods... Solid state w/ out negative feedback is vastly superior although no one can detect them blind. And cables are just the most ridiculous thing ever. There's a reason there's a standing prize for 1 million dollars to anyone who can beat chance in a double blind scenario.
> 
> All my cables are modded, but were made by my hands, using monoprice audiograde cabling which is inexpensive.
> 
> And the worst is people who have silver between two Eichmann bullets, with copper connectors.... it's like... how... do you logic? I can't even follow your train.


Yeah, that's truly a bummer







. Most of us here, among the two threads are pretty level headed. We talk about tube amps, and whether or not we prefer them over SS, but we all mean good







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, that's truly a bummer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Most of us here, among the two threads are pretty level headed. We talk about tube amps, and whether or not we prefer them over SS, but we all mean good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Well tube amps look bad-ass.

Solid state amps only look bad-ass once you open them up, provided they are fully discrete.

What I find funny is even a lot of musicians swear by tube amps, yet no one has been able to pick apart amps double blind. But yeah I'll check them out. It's a bummer what happened to head-fi, and my friends site which I won't even post seems to be more of the same... Drinking from their sponsors cups.

All in all I really wish to have the opportunity to hear the two new oppo headphones and the new audeze.

That guy claiming the HE-6 are better than the LCD-3 must have found his magic pair of cans, because they didn't even match the HD800 or LCD-2 IMO. I've never heard the 3.


----------



## pez

Well I wasn't a huge fan of the HD800, but not to say it's a bad headphone. I just didn't care for it's sound as a whole. I really hope you'll get to hear the K-1000 one day







. It really is something, IMO.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well tube amps look bad-ass.
> 
> Solid state amps only look bad-ass once you open them up, provided they are fully discrete.
> 
> What I find funny is even a lot of musicians swear by tube amps, yet no one has been able to pick apart amps double blind. But yeah I'll check them out. It's a bummer what happened to head-fi, and my friends site which I won't even post seems to be more of the same... Drinking from their sponsors cups.
> 
> All in all I really wish to have the opportunity to hear the two new oppo headphones and the new audeze.
> 
> *That guy claiming the HE-6 are better than the LCD-3 must have found his magic pair of cans, because they didn't even match the HD800 or LCD-2 IMO. I've never heard the 3*.


And you have clearly never heard a proper amped HE-6 with Audeze pads.

Go read on head-fi and superbestaudiofriends (former changstar). HE-6 is a "hidden" gem if you amp them proporly.

I have not heard the LCD-3 without fazor so its hard to compare to the LCD-2s I had which were the rev 2.3's, last rev before fazor I belive.
Ive also heard LCD-X. I found the LCD-X to have the best punch in the bass, however it wasent as extended as LCD-2s. And LCD-3F was the worst in terms of bass.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Well I wasn't a huge fan of the HD800, but not to say it's a bad headphone. I just didn't care for it's sound as a whole. I really hope you'll get to hear the K-1000 one day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It really is something, IMO.


No offense taken. Just like the T1. Nice headphone, just not enough to keep my interest. Everyone is different.

Only ever heard good things about it (the K-1000). They are the one with the wing design so you can make your own soundstage no?

HD 800 aren't the /most/ impressive. Soundstage is the best I have heard in a headphone, and for dynamic they are very nimble, and they are comfortable as hell, without the heat that the D7000 sometimes generated - those were comfy too. Had I not gotten them for 900$ new (w/ warranty and authorised reseller), I would have been disappointed paying MSRP that's for sure, especially the 200$ more it was at launch.

I really wish it was possible for electrostats to produce enough sustained excursion to ever be in the "neutral" zone for music. That's the main reason I held on to the HD 800, electrostatesque speed, but without the dramatic roll off. It's still pretty big compared to the LCD-2, but given they are flat down to 10 hz it's kind of an unfair comparison.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> No offense taken. Just like the T1. Nice headphone, just not enough to keep my interest. Everyone is different.
> 
> Only ever heard good things about it (the K-1000). They are the one with the wing design so you can make your own soundstage no?
> 
> HD 800 aren't the /most/ impressive. Soundstage is the best I have heard in a headphone, and for dynamic they are very nimble, and they are comfortable as hell, without the heat that the D7000 sometimes generated - those were comfy too. Had I not gotten them for 900$ new (w/ warranty and authorised reseller), I would have been disappointed paying MSRP that's for sure, especially the 200$ more it was at launch.
> 
> I really wish it was possible for electrostats to produce enough sustained excursion to ever be in the "neutral" zone for music. That's the main reason I held on to the HD 800, electrostatesque speed, but without the dramatic roll off. It's still pretty big compared to the LCD-2, but given they are flat down to 10 hz it's kind of an unfair comparison.


Yep, those are the ones. I would have to go back and see the exact setup I heard them on, but it was something special. It was hooked up to a nice CD player as well. Not even a SACD (the CD may have been, but not the CD itself). It just had a crazy soundstage, and extremely great mid presence. I guess it's a reason they call it ear-speakers, but it was surprisingly light considering it's looks. One day I just want to spend stupid money on a setup for it. There's better headphones, but it's the one of three headphones to truly blow me away the first moment I heard them (Triple.fi 10 IEMs, and Stax SR-007).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yep, those are the ones. I would have to go back and see the exact setup I heard them on, but it was something special. It was hooked up to a nice CD player as well. Not even a SACD (the CD may have been, but not the CD itself). It just had a crazy soundstage, and extremely great mid presence. I guess it's a reason they call it ear-speakers, but it was surprisingly light considering it's looks. One day I just want to spend stupid money on a setup for it. There's better headphones, but it's the one of three headphones to truly blow me away the first moment I heard them (Triple.fi 10 IEMs, and Stax SR-007).


I have one SACD, sounds phenomenal coming from my Oppo DVD player. Even using it's cheap DAC, rather than my reference one as it does not support DSD, and analog RCA outs the sound quality really shines. Such a shame that format died due to SanDisk Mp3 players.

Triple.fi 10's were really good. I had a pair of westone 4 that were infinitely better (partially because I wasn't having to reposition them every other minute) but I made the huge mistake of getting the model that did not have swappable cabling and need to save up to hopefully have them recabeled for a reasonable price. I'd try myself but my soldering skills are not very good and the wiring is extremely thin.

Stax were great but the bass performance is indeed a travesty. I'm not a basshead, but the "airy" and "ethereal" qualities did come as part and parcel of its FR curve. That's why I find orthodynamics so exceptional - just about no trade-offs, granted I haven't heard them all, and haven't been equally impressed by them all.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> I really wish it was possible for electrostats to produce enough sustained excursion to ever be in the "neutral" zone for music. That's the main reason I held on to the HD 800, electrostatesque speed, but without the dramatic roll off. It's still pretty big compared to the LCD-2, but given they are flat down to 10 hz it's kind of an unfair comparison.


Dramatic roll off in the SR-009? The SR-009 is one of the most extended and neutral headphones I've listened to and that includes the HD 800, but I guess everyone's ears are different. I also like the HE-6 more than both the LCD-3F and HD 800, and I wasn't even hearing it with a proper amplifier (it was a HeadAmp GS-X Mk2).


----------



## pez

Hmmm....what's the big differences between the K701 and the Q701?

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Premium-Headphones/dp/B004444OFK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448478754&sr=8-2&keywords=akg+q701

EDIT: Maybe an excuse to pick up for gaming alone?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Hmmm....what's the big differences between the K701 and the Q701?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Premium-Headphones/dp/B004444OFK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448478754&sr=8-2&keywords=akg+q701
> 
> EDIT: Maybe an excuse to pick up for gaming alone?


Wow that's cheap as hell. Get it for gaming, you'll like it more than your HD 650 for that purpose. The differences (according to one person) are highlighted here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/752994/my-akg-comparison-k7xx-k712-65th-annies-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion

A bit more bass but still less than neutral bass (considering my K7xx has more bass and is about neutral to my ears), smaller upper mid peak, sound stage slightly smaller but I can't imagine this difference being very noticeable.


----------



## pez

Best quick response ever







. Thanks boredgunner. Super helpful link, too. Had some Discover Cash Back and used it. Made out paying ~$114 after tax.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Hmmm....what's the big differences between the K701 and the Q701?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Premium-Headphones/dp/B004444OFK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448478754&sr=8-2&keywords=akg+q701
> 
> EDIT: Maybe an excuse to pick up for gaming alone?


I'm pretty sure I mentioned earlier on they were dirt cheap now. I think it's just the colors. If only that headband wasn't "cushioned" - with rocks.

And yeah the sr-007 roll off as do all the other electrostatics, but don't take my word for it, the FR plots all show them falling off a cliff after 80 or so.

And the square wave plots show the same as well, although they perform about as well as the HD 800 in the 30 hz plots. The LCD-2 don't suffer the same fate, and don't roll off and more or less accurately give a square 30 hz


----------



## pez

Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that, but I wouldn't mind modding them at that price. Right now my biggest qualm with the HD650 is it's rather 'narrow' soundstage.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I mentioned earlier on they were dirt cheap now. I think it's just the colors. If only that headband wasn't "cushioned" - with rocks.
> 
> And yeah the sr-007 roll off as do all the other electrostatics, but don't take my word for it, the FR plots all show them falling off a cliff after 80 or so.
> 
> And the square wave plots show the same as well, although they perform about as well as the HD 800 in the 30 hz plots. The LCD-2 don't suffer the same fate, and don't roll off and more or less accurately give a square 30 hz


But isn't the roll off way beyond any person's hearing range?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that, but I wouldn't mind modding them at that price. Right now my biggest qualm with the HD650 is it's rather 'narrow' soundstage.


Have you listened to the LCD-4 or HE1000 yet? I'm wondering if you'll ever find something you like more than the HD 650, out of sheer curiosity (I wish my favorite headphone was $400). How about the SR-007Mk1 early version? Not the later production Mk1. Also the Orpheus HE90 (I forget if I asked you about this one), and either version of the Sony MDR-R10?


----------



## Aventadoor

Ive heard HE-1000 with Moon Neo 430HA and Auralic Taurus Mk2.
Most boring headphone ive ever heard. To me the sound is too distant, and the bass lacks the slam/punch/viscerality and dynamics that HE-6 has. I can defently see why so many enjoy it tho, it doesnt do much wrong, it just does nothing great. And in an world with no perfect headphones, id rather get 1 that does a few things excellent.
So no HE-1000 for me, but Edition X seems like it could be promising.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Ive heard HE-1000 with Moon Neo 430HA and Auralic Taurus Mk2.
> Most boring headphone ive ever heard. To me the sound is too distant, and the bass lacks the slam/punch/viscerality and dynamics that HE-6 has. I can defently see why so many enjoy it tho, it doesnt do much wrong, it just does nothing great. And in an world with no perfect headphones, id rather get 1 that does a few things excellent.
> So no HE-1000 for me, but Edition X seems like it could be promising.


That's a pretty good description actually. I listened to the HE1000 for hours with the HM-901S and EF1000. I agree with your comparison to HE-6 and statement that it does nothing wrong but is not excellent in any particular way, although despite this I didn't find it boring.

Apparently you can get more bass slam/punch with a looser seal, which is also said for the Abyss. I'll have to try that next time I'm around an HE1000.


----------



## Aventadoor

You can get that sensation with other headphones aswell.
Well... Atleast some, I guess you need leather pads, then just pull the pad from away from ur ear slightly and u get it.

HE-1000 is defently not worth 3k tho, and LCD-3 is not worth the price either.
The head-fi market is going in a sort of bad direction. But why not? People seem to not care and buy it anyway, no matter how costly it is.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> You can get that sensation with other headphones aswell.
> Well... Atleast some, I guess you need leather pads, then just pull the pad from away from ur ear slightly and u get it.
> 
> HE-1000 is defently not worth 3k tho, and LCD-3 is not worth the price either.
> The head-fi market is going in a sort of bad direction. But why not? People seem to not care and buy it anyway, no matter how costly it is.


Yeah I definitely agree about the price. I can justify $3k for a Stax SR-009 but not any other headphone I've heard.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> But isn't the roll off way beyond any person's hearing range?
> Have you listened to the LCD-4 or HE1000 yet? I'm wondering if you'll ever find something you like more than the HD 650, out of sheer curiosity (I wish my favorite headphone was $400). How about the SR-007Mk1 early version? Not the later production Mk1. Also the Orpheus HE90 (I forget if I asked you about this one), and either version of the Sony MDR-R10?


Depends which generation you're from trololol. Sub 20 hz you get earlobe feedback only. Hence "subsonic" starting at 20 hz. Although age does aggravate things.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> But isn't the roll off way beyond any person's hearing range?
> Have you listened to the LCD-4 or HE1000 yet? I'm wondering if you'll ever find something you like more than the HD 650, out of sheer curiosity (I wish my favorite headphone was $400). How about the SR-007Mk1 early version? Not the later production Mk1. Also the Orpheus HE90 (I forget if I asked you about this one), and either version of the Sony MDR-R10?


I can't remember the version fo the SR-007 I heard, but I mentioned it a few posts back as one of the headphones that have truly blown me away. Those lambskin pads, that HD650-on-steroids sound, and that amazing bass. Yep. I actually somehow keep forgetting about it, but it was easily my favorite headphone I heard that day (outside of the K-1000).

I have not had the opportunity to audition the LCD-4 or the HE1000, though I'm curious to find what I would consider the next true upgrade. Trust me, I realize the Q701 are not it. They're more of a utility set of cans.

Maybe I can find an audio event again like the last time.


----------



## Sevada88

For anyone looking to get the ModMic 4.0 for a little cheaper, massdrop has a drop going for 20% off. You'd have to wait for a while to get it though.


----------



## You Mirin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Hifiman is better! Hifiman is much more comfertable and the tonal balance is better. They also have more airy sound and better soundstage.
> Go read on Changstar/Superbestaudiofriends, they are known for hating a little on Audeze, but they are correct.


In that case they hate on hifiman too and pretty much only love the HDXX0 lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well tube amps look bad-ass.
> 
> Solid state amps only look bad-ass once you open them up, provided they are fully discrete.
> 
> What I find funny is even a lot of musicians swear by tube amps, yet no one has been able to pick apart amps double blind. But yeah I'll check them out. It's a bummer what happened to head-fi, and my friends site which I won't even post seems to be more of the same... Drinking from their sponsors cups.


Bettter hope he who should not be named read that :scared:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> The head-fi market is going in a sort of bad direction. But why not? People seem to not care and buy it anyway, no matter how costly it is.


Not volume products either though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> For anyone looking to get the ModMic 4.0 for a little cheaper, massdrop has a drop going for 20% off. You'd have to wait for a while to get it though.


meh.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> But isn't the roll off way beyond any person's hearing range?
> Have you listened to the LCD-4 or HE1000 yet? I'm wondering if you'll ever find something you like more than the HD 650, out of sheer curiosity (I wish my favorite headphone was $400). How about the SR-007Mk1 early version? Not the later production Mk1. Also the Orpheus HE90 (I forget if I asked you about this one), and either version of the Sony MDR-R10?


Depends how old you are. If you can't hear 60-80 hz you have hearing problems. Below /20 hz/ is considered beyond human hearing. By the time someone can afford a SR-007 and the amp it may be beyond their ability to hear LOL.

Roll off is also enormous depending on the frequency you're talking 30 dB


----------



## D3XXX

However below 20 can still be felt and that is actually the main purpose of our earlobes.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *You Mirin*
> 
> In that case they hate on hifiman too and pretty much only love the HDXX0 lol.
> Bettter hope he who should not be named read that :scared:
> Not volume products either though.
> meh.


What about tube amps? They look mighty pretty but I'll take my fully discrete and balanced distortion and harmonics free amplification with 0 ohm output impedance to some gratuitously overpriced yesteryear "bling" with a sweet chassis and tubes that glow and output impedance any day. The day I have enough money not to care the alleged sound qualities they possess, to date, can't actually be detected by human ears I'll definitely get a blinged out McIntosh or something while I scream "what" holding my hand cupped around my ear to try and hear what my wife is complaining about. When that fails I'll get my walker and go find her. Hopefully it won't rake me that long to acquire the means though as I'm still young and hard on the para-human claims the hard of hearing make. ?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I can't remember the version fo the SR-007 I heard, but I mentioned it a few posts back as one of the headphones that have truly blown me away. Those lambskin pads, that HD650-on-steroids sound, and that amazing bass. Yep. I actually somehow keep forgetting about it, but it was easily my favorite headphone I heard that day (outside of the K-1000).
> 
> I have not had the opportunity to audition the LCD-4 or the HE1000, though I'm curious to find what I would consider the next true upgrade. Trust me, I realize the Q701 are not it. They're more of a utility set of cans.
> 
> Maybe I can find an audio event again like the last time.


MK2s.

Mk1s do not go to head-fi meets that often cause they are a far more fragile unit. At least that is what I have been told.

Don't waste your time with the HE-1000s or the LCD-4. Find yourself someone who would let you listen to a pair of HE-60s. Those are the only headphones I know of that can truly go toe to toe with the K1000s.


----------



## You Mirin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> What about tube amps? They look mighty pretty but I'll take my fully discrete and balanced distortion and harmonics free amplification with 0 ohm output impedance to some gratuitously overpriced yesteryear "bling" with a sweet chassis and tubes that glow and output impedance any day. The day I have enough money not to care the alleged sound qualities they possess, to date, can't actually be detected by human ears I'll definitely get a blinged out McIntosh or something while I scream "what" holding my hand cupped around my ear to try and hear what my wife is complaining about. When that fails I'll get my walker and go find her. Hopefully it won't rake me that long to acquire the means though as I'm still young and hard on the para-human claims the hard of hearing make. ?


alright i have no idea what you are trying to say.

he who shall not be named has made his appearance though. :scared:


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *You Mirin*
> 
> alright i have no idea what you are trying to say.
> 
> he who shall not be named has made his appearance though. :scared:


Was implying I'd only be able to afford a "blingy" tube amp once I reach retirement, the demographic that most tube amp lovers fall into.

But I do hope to be able to afford them before I reach that age as I am still young.

And that I am not hard on hearing but am hard on the para-human hearing claims the hard of hearing make IE ye olde generation talking about "warmth" of tube amps "coldness" of solid state etc - all of which are confabulations of old minds, and that I'll take my current set up over electrically inferior, but admittedly less "blinged out" tube equipment.


----------



## D3XXX

Why the hell wouldn't you want to try them? Plot looks as good as the LCD-2, if the other technological advances live up you have a damned neutral set of headphones that are not "extended" but in fact literally extend the range of human hearing in a meaningful manner (ie audible)...

I mean lets go with best case scenario, square wave response is better than the LCD-2 and the quicker driver gives better quicker decay... FR plots don't tell the whole story, but if you know how to read them they tell much more than most will give credit for. Whether you like uncoloured (as much as possible) music or enjoy rolled off coloured music is your prerogative but FR charts don't lie. Humans lie consciously or unconsciously (like about hearing differences in cabling etc), and they also have preferences.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> MK2s.
> 
> Mk1s do not go to head-fi meets that often cause they are a far more fragile unit. At least that is what I have been told.
> 
> Don't waste your time with the HE-1000s or the LCD-4. Find yourself someone who would let you listen to a pair of HE-60s. Those are the only headphones I know of that can truly go toe to toe with the K1000s.


Also probably so they can maintain their mystique, like the Orpheus.

And yes, encouraging people not to waste time with in-production units, and to go only for out of production-mystique-veiled units is definitely solid advice.

Given that they are more likely to be the titans at a meet, why the hell not listen to them?

And why settle for HE-60 when you can go all the way to HE-90(00)?

Only bad thing about auditioning the LCD-4 at a meet are a) take a number and b) they are open headphones. But to avoid them altogether to get try and sniff out yesteryears muses is doing yourself, and anyone you encourage to maintain that attitude, a disservice.


----------



## Aventadoor

Mad cudos to DHL! 3 Days shipping from China to Norway! Got my HE-6 back today, Hurray!


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Mad cudos to DHL! 3 Days shipping from China to Norway! Got my HE-6 back today, Hurray!


Pretty impressive.

What needed fixed?


----------



## Aventadoor

I blew them. So I got a new driver for free. Pretty nice!


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell wouldn't you want to try them? Plot looks as good as the LCD-2, if the other technological advances live up you have a damned neutral set of headphones that are not "extended" but in fact literally extend the range of human hearing in a meaningful manner (ie audible)...
> 
> I mean lets go with best case scenario, square wave response is better than the LCD-2 and the quicker driver gives better quicker decay... FR plots don't tell the whole story, but if you know how to read them they tell much more than most will give credit for. Whether you like uncoloured (as much as possible) music or enjoy rolled off coloured music is your prerogative but FR charts don't lie. Humans lie consciously or unconsciously (like about hearing differences in cabling etc), and they also have preferences.
> Also probably so they can maintain their mystique, like the Orpheus.
> 
> And yes, encouraging people not to waste time with in-production units, and to go only for out of production-mystique-veiled units is definitely solid advice.
> 
> Given that they are more likely to be the titans at a meet, why the hell not listen to them?
> 
> And why settle for HE-60 when you can go all the way to HE-90(00)?
> 
> Only bad thing about auditioning the LCD-4 at a meet are a) take a number and b) they are open headphones. But to avoid them altogether to get try and sniff out yesteryears muses is doing yourself, and anyone you encourage to maintain that attitude, a disservice.


Ah well I actually know pez, and I know what he likes.

Sooooooooooooo there ya go.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Ah well I actually know pez, and I know what he likes.
> 
> Sooooooooooooo there ya go.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbqvifFqtq8

Good for him to have someone who knows him so well Sigma 5 accuracy in "Pez likes". You, sir, are remarkable.


----------



## pez

We both went to the same meet where I auditioned many of the headphones I talk about here. We've had some pretty extensive conversations of the sounds and signatures that I like, and he knows I'm not a huge huge fan of the Hifiman or Audeze line







.


----------



## Sevada88

Guys I have to come back to you again for advice. The Schiit Stack is not looking good for me. Living in the Netherlands and ordering from outside of EU is a real pain in the ass.

Ordering from the Schiit website, the total sum would be 338 USD (318.55 EUR). On top of all that, I have to pay an additional 21% VAT in the Netherlands, 2% import duties and administration costs to the shipper. According to my calculation, the total price is going to be 435 USD...

There is a retailer in the UK that sells Schiit products although their prices are too high (135 USD for the Modi 2 and 196 USD for the Magni 2 Uber). Additionally, I am not sure if they have the 230V Euro plug version









Are there any other DACs or amps you guys would recommend? Hopefully something I can buy here in Europe.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> We both went to the same meet where I auditioned many of the headphones I talk about here. We've had some pretty extensive conversations of the sounds and signatures that I like, and he knows I'm not a huge huge fan of the Hifiman or Audeze line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Are you one of those who dislike bass?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> We both went to the same meet where I auditioned many of the headphones I talk about here. We've had some pretty extensive conversations of the sounds and signatures that I like, and he knows I'm not a huge huge fan of the Hifiman or Audeze line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Twas a joke gentleman.

But in all seriousness I don't see, other than weight what there is to dislike about Audeze. Granted I have not heard anything but my own LCD-2, but maybe your recordings are bade? The LCD-2 were the first time I actually heard drums that sounded like an actual drum kit on anything (I'm a drummer). Not all songs get the same milage as the mastering dictates a lot but some Tool or Dave Matthews Band sounds like the real deal. The square wave plots show on paper that they let you hear the full decay of toms that on a lot of other things is lost as they are unable to maintain excursion. The HE-6 weren't half bad but were too bright for my taste.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Twas a joke gentleman.
> 
> But in all seriousness I don't see, other than weight what there is to dislike about Audeze. Granted I have not heard anything but my own LCD-2, but maybe your recordings are bade? The LCD-2 were the first time I actually heard drums that sounded like an actual drum kit on anything (I'm a drummer). Not all songs get the same milage as the mastering dictates a lot but some Tool or Dave Matthews Band sounds like the real deal. The square wave plots show on paper that they let you hear the full decay of toms that on a lot of other things is lost as they are unable to maintain excursion. The HE-6 weren't half bad but were too bright for my taste.


Ticks and Leeches, particularly the HDCD encoding is a great benchmark track. Aenima is another good one, especially around the middle of the track.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Twas a joke gentleman.
> 
> But in all seriousness I don't see, other than weight what there is to dislike about Audeze. Granted I have not heard anything but my own LCD-2, but maybe your recordings are bade? The LCD-2 were the first time I actually heard drums that sounded like an actual drum kit on anything (I'm a drummer). Not all songs get the same milage as the mastering dictates a lot but some Tool or Dave Matthews Band sounds like the real deal. The square wave plots show on paper that they let you hear the full decay of toms that on a lot of other things is lost as they are unable to maintain excursion. The HE-6 weren't half bad but were too bright for my taste.


HE-6 in stock form is indeed very bright or harsh in the upper treble, it also has some siblance.
But like everyone who owns HE-6, u "mod" them. But a stereoamp of high quality, prefer class A and Audeze pads the harshness is gone and its just buttery smooth sounding.
With my FirstWatt F6 its like liquid in a sens... As close as it gets to tubes.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> HE-6 in stock form is indeed very bright or harsh in the upper treble, it also has some siblance.
> But like everyone who owns HE-6, u "mod" them. But a stereoamp of high quality, prefer class A and Audeze pads the harshness is gone and its just buttery smooth sounding.
> With my FirstWatt F6 its like liquid in a sens... As close as it gets to tubes.


Shouldn't have to mod a 1200$ headphone... But maybe that's just me...

Class A is the only "Audiophile" type of amplification there is...

I can't remember if I bothered hooking them up to my Muse 100 stereo amp. It was a review unit so I didn't want to blow it and ruin it for everyone else. Would using the Phoenix as a pre-amp to a 100 watt stereo amp blow them? I likely would have done it single ended so as to not add any gain.

So I can't say with certainty I heard it with a "stereo" amp, but I can say with certainty I heard it on balanced CAST/ACSS DAC to balanced CAST/ACSS Amping to 4 pin XLR to headphone. And at any rate it's not like my Phoenix doesn't have enough power on hand to properly drive any headphone out there that isn't electrostatic.

And if you want tube sound, just masking tape a tube to the top of your amp and pretend - maybe sharpie it so it looks like it glowing. Tube amps don't sound any different than any kind of amp, perhaps maybe comparing it to discrete NFBless SS amping someone might be able to detect sonic differences. The differences you can count on are tube amps being electrically inferior and quantitatively inferior as well, but no ones been able to detect sonic differences double-blind


----------



## D3XXX

delete


----------



## Aventadoor

I wrote "mod" cause slapping on some Audeze pads isent really a mod.
Just like Fostex have removed some harshness from their new TH-X00 line with new earpads.

I'm not trying to defend the HE-6. I just tell personal experience and what alot of other people experience.
Many headphone amps have enough wattage to drive HE-6 to 100dB +, I mean it only needs 2W for that.
However, to get them swinging you need high voltage swing. Some people have seem to found out that to get best results with HE-6, u need a voltage swing to about 20ish

Whether its tube or SS amp I couldent care less, as long as it sounds good. I personally dont like the idea of having tubes.
And yeah, I doubt people hear difference between a warm sounding SS vs a tube which also have a warmer tone.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I wrote "mod" cause slapping on some Audeze pads isent really a mod.
> Just like Fostex have removed some harshness from their new TH-X00 line with new earpads.
> 
> I'm not trying to defend the HE-6. I just tell personal experience and what alot of other people experience.
> Many headphone amps have enough wattage to drive HE-6 to 100dB +, I mean it only needs 2W for that.
> However, to get them swinging you need high voltage swing. Some people have seem to found out that to get best results with HE-6, u need a voltage swing to about 20ish


Don't have defend something you like... liking it is good enough for me. I am just saying that I would think a headphone in that price-range shouldn't have to be user-moded.

Slew rate is generally for high-impedance headphones, is it not? At any rate I believe the Phoenix can swing 25v.


----------



## Aventadoor

There's no perfect headphone whatever the price range, so why not mod it?
Well... Maybe HD800S or Edition X will give some suprises...
I hope so, cause its a hassle to have stereoamp, so big!

I bought HE-6 used, cause I just had to try them after all the stereoamp hype.
At first I thought they dident differ too much from LCD-3F. LCD-3F also have kinda harshy treble (fazor).
And they dont differ too much from LCD-3F. They sound more open, smooth and tiny bit brighter.

I wanna get headamp and try HD650 tho, cause ive never tried those...


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> There's no perfect headphone whatever the price range, so why not mod it?
> 
> *No I wasn't criticising your modding, I was just saying that for that amount of money, IMO, a headphone shouldn't need modding.
> 
> *Well... Maybe HD800S or Edition X will give some suprises...
> I hope so, cause its a hassle to have stereoamp, so big!
> 
> I bought HE-6 used, cause I just had to try them after all the stereoamp hype.
> At first I thought they dident differ too much from LCD-3F. LCD-3F also have kinda harshy treble (fazor).
> And they dont differ too much from LCD-3F. They sound more open, smooth and tiny bit brighter.
> 
> I've never heard the LCD-3F but, to my ears, they didn't compete with the LCD-2. Coulda been the amping, who knows.
> Hard to tell from the photos, but I wouldn't be surprised if my phoenix with both boxes side by side was around the same size. And it's "just a head-amp" xD.
> 
> I wanna get headamp and try HD650 tho, cause ive never tried those...
> 
> *A head-amp or the HD650 or both?
> 
> HD 650 probably wouldn't be resolute enough to justify the kit to use them coming from Planars.
> *


----------



## Aventadoor

I'm looking to get a new pair of headphones and a versatile headamp.
So I hope Edition X or HD800S will be a replacement for HE-6.
Its kinda sad to be "stuck" with a stereoamp, unfortunaly.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Twas a joke gentleman.
> 
> But in all seriousness I don't see, other than weight what there is to dislike about Audeze. Granted I have not heard anything but my own LCD-2, but maybe your recordings are bade? The LCD-2 were the first time I actually heard drums that sounded like an actual drum kit on anything (I'm a drummer). Not all songs get the same milage as the mastering dictates a lot but some Tool or Dave Matthews Band sounds like the real deal. The square wave plots show on paper that they let you hear the full decay of toms that on a lot of other things is lost as they are unable to maintain excursion. The HE-6 weren't half bad but were too bright for my taste.


I like audeze.

I mean I think what it comes down to is the LCD2 and 3 are still kind of dark headphones. Sometimes they can sound pretty distant too. They are just difficult headphones to tame and for that reason I just think there really wasn't a great setup at the head-fi meet we went to that really gave a good representation of what they could do.

There is also a potential that we heard the pre-fazor set of headphones and blah blah blah etc etc.

As for hifiman..........HE-500s or bust. I still need more time with the HE-1000s to form a real opinion, but everything else is junk IMO. Audeze and now even fostex has the definite edge over hifiman with the exception of the HE-500s.

And to be fair. I think pez liked the audeze headphones, but probably did not find them to be worth the upgrade over the HD650s.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I'm looking to get a new pair of headphones and a versatile headamp.
> So I hope Edition X or HD800S will be a replacement for HE-6.
> Its kinda sad to be "stuck" with a stereoamp, unfortunaly.


Well, I can vouch for Audio-GDs quality / $ ratio and stellar sound. Nothing Made in the US, EU or by US/EU companies will match the kind of quality you can get from Audio-Gd. You're talking orders of magnitude in terms of schism in price. I believe their Phoenix has been phased out, but they certainly have other options.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm

This would be closest to the Phoenix, and judging by the price, slightly better:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-9/Master-9EN.htm


----------



## Aventadoor

I used to have a Audio GD Master 7 DAC.
Master 10, Master 9 etc are so freaking huge!
I want desktop stuff!
But yeah their stuff is very solid made.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> I like audeze.
> 
> I mean I think what it comes down to is the LCD2 and 3 are still kind of dark headphones. Sometimes they can sound pretty distant too. They are just difficult headphones to tame and for that reason I just think there really wasn't a great setup at the head-fi meet we went to that really gave a good representation of what they could do.
> 
> There is also a potential that we heard the pre-fazor set of headphones and blah blah blah etc etc.
> 
> As for hifiman..........HE-500s or bust. I still need more time with the HE-1000s to form a real opinion, but everything else is junk IMO. Audeze and now even fostex has the definite edge over hifiman with the exception of the HE-500s.
> 
> And to be fair. I think pez liked the audeze headphones, *but probably did not find them to be worth the upgrade over the HD650s*.


Pretty sure that's a racial slur in headphonetongue.

I haven't really been following the scene lately as I got the luck of getting an extremely rare and debilitating illness for 22 months, and even sitting at the computer was too much pain wise, despite a plethora of co-analgesics and palliative care narcotics. But TBH I don't miss it.

In many ways I'm just happier with what I already have then I have ever been.

Although I find it hard to imagine Audeze has gone down the drain but don't doubt their thousand dollar bump is making for serious diminishing returns, but that is the bane of Hi-Fi audio is it not?

Wonder how the Oppos sound too.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I used to have a Audio GD Master 7 DAC.
> Master 10, Master 9 etc are so freaking huge!
> I want desktop stuff!
> But yeah their stuff is very solid made.


I have a Ref-7 and Phoenix.

the NFB-1AMP would be manageable on a desk, no?

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB282016/NFB282016EN.htm

That's also one hell of a buy for 750$... lol could probably turn quite the profit downsizing to that.


----------



## Aventadoor

NFB-1AMP is small enough for desk yeah.

What headphones you have?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> NFB-1AMP is small enough for desk yeah.
> 
> What headphones you have?


HD 800
DT-990 600
LCD-2


----------



## Aventadoor

You have anax mod on your HD800?
You shouldent have to mod 1400$ headphones...

Ive heard HD800 with a macintosh amp... I dident find them too bright actually.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> You have anax mod on your HD800?
> You shouldent have to mod 1400$ headphones...
> 
> Ive heard HD800 with a macintosh amp... I dident find them too bright actually.


I got them new for 900 when they were first released from a hook-up in Germany, with authorised reseller receipt and unopened box :3.

But what mods are you speaking of?


----------



## Aventadoor

The famous Anax mod to reduce brightness.

HD800S will be interesting cause its suppose to have reduced brightness and better bass extension. Tho I dont think it will have more bass slam


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> The famous Anax mod to reduce brightness.
> 
> HD800S will be interesting cause its suppose to have reduced brightness and better bass extension. Tho I dont think it will have more bass slam


Never really had an issue with them. From memory they were less bright than the first time I heard them, so maybe I got lucky with the unit or the FR peaks aren't an issue due to my cartilage formation or both.

The HD 800 has "slam" because its bumped about 5 dB around 100-150 HZ IIRC. I highly doubt, using a dynamic transducer, they could improve square wave response significantly enough to make a meaningful impact to the extension as it's already damned good for a dynamic headphone. They are more likely to have luck in taming the higher freqs.

=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=3221&graphID[]=3431&scale=30]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=3&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=3221&graphID[]=3431&scale=30


----------



## Aventadoor

So basicly I cant expect to get dynamics headphones with the bass of a planar?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So basicly I cant expect to get dynamics headphones with the bass of a planar?


This is my belief. Planar bass is exclusive to planars. I didn't find the HD 800 to be too bright with the Woo Audio WA22. I think the HD 800 needs a warm, lush sounding tube amp to shine. I'd love to hear the HD 800S though.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So basicly I cant expect to get dynamics headphones with the bass of a planar?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So basicly I cant expect to get dynamics headphones with the bass of a planar?


I'm not good with math but as I understand it (and I'm not being sarcastic or snarky I'm being serious) a square sine wave of 50 hz that does not look square shows failure of the driver to maintain adequate excursion so there is a roll on the graph. Super bassy headphones will have a hump headphones that can actually reproduce the frequency will be square or very close to, slight slants are still considered good but unless it's square there is inability to sustain the frequency and also generally rolloff. So, from what I've seen, you cannot get square waves in the bass region, especially lowest registers on any other type of headphone it's unique to planars that I know of. Fr curves might show the headphone can audibly reach that low like with the HD 800 but doesn't indicate at all the ability to sustain it like with the HD 800 although it does pretty admirably for a dynamic.

So bottom line let that dream die as young as possible because you'll likely never see it. Likely a limitation of the technology entirely.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So basicly I cant expect to get dynamics headphones with the bass of a planar?


Mid bass, sub bass, or both?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> This is my belief. Planar bass is exclusive to planars. I didn't find the HD 800 to be too bright with the Woo Audio WA22. I think the HD 800 needs a warm, lush sounding tube amp to shine. I'd love to hear the HD 800S though.


Problem is that human hearing can't actually distinguish tube amps from solid state -despite solid states superiority in every measurable metric, factoring out output impedance as that will change any sonic signature. So where one might find such an amp is about as realistic as hoping the flying spaghetti monster touches you with his noodly appendage.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Mid bass, sub bass, or both?


Subbass is a misnomer as bass is the end of the spectrum, which is why we have the term subsonic.


----------



## Aventadoor

I care mostly about the ability to make kick drums etc punch very hard, aka the punch you feel in the chest from speakers.
I belive its mid-bass or atleast like... between 100-200hz.
I'd love to feel it in the ear!


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Mid bass, sub bass, or both?


Although planars will in fact do sub bass better too, for what it's worth. The LCD can do 2hz at 3 watts if you ever want to tear an eardrum or two off.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I care mostly about the ability to make kick drums etc punch very hard, aka the punch you feel in the chest from speakers.
> I belive its mid-bass or atleast like... between 100-200hz.


The "kick" from "mid bass" is just because usually their SPL levels are inflated. Most stereo speakers can't do below 60 hz but can do 150-300 in spades. An actual kick drum depends entirely on it's tuning and whether or not it's ported. A dampened ring around the beating head and a port on the opposite end can yield very low bass. That's how I have mine arranged and it's not uncommon professionally although I believe I have mine tuned lower than most. And due to the human hearing curve sometimes I have to rely on physical indicators (not uniquely, but otherwise don't) when playing a particularly crowded piece (with hearing protection on) as the crack of a piccolo snare can easily hit and surpass 120 dB and China cymbals are hard to hear through when used in place of hihats. Mics for acoustic drums need about 150 dB SPL ratings. Getting that kind of accuracy during playback is near impossible without planars and well recorded drums. If you don't listen to a lot of music with drums you can brush "subbass" region off but for any well recorded music with drums a large portion of texture and decay lie in the "subbass" or true bass region. Genesis and recreation are completely different, but if you stood 5 feet, probably even 10-15 feet away from my bass drum you'd feel it in your chest, but what you feel in your chest playing from speakers is likely not from the same region and more SPL in general.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I care mostly about the ability to make kick drums etc punch very hard, aka the punch you feel in the chest from speakers.
> I belive its mid-bass or atleast like... between 100-200hz.
> I'd love to feel it in the ear!


That would in fact be mid bass. Sub bass would be the rumble. There are s few dynamic headphones that have comparable mid bass to planers.


----------



## Aventadoor

I know 1 headphone that fits the bill. The Abyss. But I dont have 5k laying around for headcans!


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> That would in fact be mid bass. Sub bass would be the rumble. There are s few dynamic headphones that have comparable mid bass to planers.


Rumble is a dynamic transducer desperately trying to maintain excursion, or a movie track, or both. I can't think of an instrument that produces "rumble" unless you considered a cheap-mid range sub an instrument... What he's describing most likely was experienced from the midrange bass region, but not necessarily because that's actually where it comes from, but because of shortcomings in dynamic transducers in a crossover network. Kick-to-the-chest feeling comes from the low end IRL as I elucidated upon.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I care mostly about the ability to make kick drums etc punch very hard, aka the punch you feel in the chest from speakers *that's SPL not the region*.
> I belive its mid-bass or atleast like... between 100-200hz.
> I'd love to feel it in the ear!


*You should definitely be able to... are your headphones loose or tightened? If you're supporting your earlobes you're not helping yourself. ideally you want your headphones as loose as can be without pushing down on your cartilage.
*
*Lol no wonder you blew your driver







.*
*Make sure your earlobes are unobstructed, as they will amplify the sensation, as is their physiological purpose.
*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> *The "kick" from "mid bass" is just because usually their SPL levels are inflated. Most stereo speakers can't do below 60 hz but can do 150-300 in spades*. An actual kick drum depends entirely on it's tuning and whether or not it's ported. A dampened ring around the beating head and a port on the opposite end can yield very low bass. That's how I have mine arranged and it's not uncommon professionally although I believe I have mine tuned lower than most. And due to the human hearing curve sometimes *I have to rely on physical indicators (not uniquely, but otherwise don't)* when playing a particularly crowded piece (with hearing protection on) as the crack of a *piccolo snare can easily hit and surpass 120 dB* and China cymbals are hard to hear through when used in place of hihats. Mics for acoustic drums need about 150 dB SPL ratings. Getting that kind of accuracy during playback is near impossible without planars and well recorded drums. If you don't listen to a lot of music with drums you can brush "subbass" region off but *for any well recorded music with drums a large portion of texture and decay lie in the "subbass" or true bass region. Genesis and recreation are completely different, but if you stood 5 feet you'd feel it in your throat and chest, at 10-15 feet away from my bass drum you'd feel it in your chest, but what you feel in your chest playing from speakers is likely not from the same region and more SPL in general*.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> That would in fact be mid bass. Sub bass would be the rumble. There are s few dynamic headphones that have comparable mid bass to planers.


*Linear FR and sustainable FR is much more important than picking out a portion of spectra and comparing them and saying "look its just as good!" as that allows the recording to speak, and not the headphone. Might just be me, but I'd rather hear the recording as much as possible than a poetic license on it. Without being flat throughout the bass spectrum (although I guess you could argue semantics that due to human FR curve the lowest end would in fact need a boost) you lose accuracy as there's (generally) no "mid" bass without bass. They go hand in hand. And with linear response you can hear decay and textural subtleties.
*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I know 1 headphone that fits the bill. The Abyss. But I dont have 5k laying around for headcans!


*Lol which headphone are you referencing?*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> *Rumble is a dynamic transducer desperately trying to maintain excursion, or a movie track, or both.* I can't think of an instrument that produces "rumble" unless you considered a cheap-mid range sub an instrument... What he's describing most likely was experienced from the midrange bass region, but not necessarily or likely because that's actually where it comes from, but because of shortcomings in dynamic transducers in a crossover network. *True kick-to-the-chest feeling comes from the low end IRL as I elucidated upon*.


----------



## You Mirin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Was implying I'd only be able to afford a "blingy" tube amp once I reach retirement, the demographic that most tube amp lovers fall into.
> 
> But I do hope to be able to afford them before I reach that age as I am still young.
> 
> And that I am not hard on hearing but am hard on the para-human hearing claims the hard of hearing make IE ye olde generation talking about "warmth" of tube amps "coldness" of solid state etc - all of which are confabulations of old minds, and that I'll take my current set up over electrically inferior, but admittedly less "blinged out" tube equipment.












Are you a /r/headphones member?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> The famous Anax mod to reduce brightness.
> 
> HD800S will be interesting cause its suppose to have reduced brightness and better bass extension. Tho I dont think it will have more bass slam


TARI HD800 MOD FTMFTW


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> *You should definitely be able to... are your headphones loose or tightened? If you're supporting your earlobes you're not helping yourself. ideally you want your headphones as loose as can be without pushing down on your cartilage.
> *
> *Lol no wonder you blew your driver
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .*
> *Make sure your earlobes are unobstructed, as they will amplify the sensation, as is their physiological purpose.
> *
> 
> *Linear FR and sustainable FR is much more important than picking out a portion of spectra and comparing them and saying "look its just as good!" as that allows the recording to speak, and not the headphone. Might just be me, but I'd rather hear the recording as much as possible than a poetic license on it. Without being flat throughout the bass spectrum (although I guess you could argue semantics that due to human FR curve the lowest end would in fact need a boost) you lose accuracy as there's (generally) no "mid" bass without bass. They go hand in hand. And with linear response you can hear decay and textural subtleties.
> *
> *Lol which headphone are you referencing?*


What you mean by loose or tightned?
I blew them when I dident wear them on my head







Int-150 at max volume wasent that smart! lol
My listening levels are high but ok. Around 90dB, 95 if I feel very frisky.

JPS Labs Abyss. Ive heard them once. As I mentioned earlier, it took like 45 mins to adjust them, but then the bass is subwooferish, it hits so hard too!
But its very expensive.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *You Mirin*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a /r/headphones member?
> TARI HD800 MOD FTMFTW


No I avoid most forums like the plague, especially reddit and will likely ban myself from here soon enough with all the time I've... misappropriated.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> What you mean by loose or tightned?
> I blew them when I dident wear them on my head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Int-150 at max volume wasent that smart! lol
> My listening levels are high but ok. Around 90dB, 95 if I feel very frisky.
> 
> JPS Labs Abyss. Ive heard them once. As I mentioned earlier, it took like 45 mins to adjust them, but then the bass is subwooferish, it hits so hard too!
> But its very expensive.


----------



## You Mirin

You sure post like the "stereotypical /r user" though.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *You Mirin*
> 
> You sure post like the "stereotypical /r user" though.


I'll have to take your word for it; whatever that means.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> What you mean by loose or tightned?
> I blew them when I dident wear them on my head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Int-150 at max volume wasent that smart! lol
> My listening levels are high but ok. Around 90dB, 95 if I feel very frisky.
> 
> JPS Labs Abyss. Ive heard them once. As I mentioned earlier, it took like 45 mins to adjust them, but then the bass is subwooferish, it hits so hard too!
> But its very expensive.


Look ugly as hell but so long as they sound good and are comfy you could overlook that. 5k is quite the asking price though.

Subwoofer bass doesn't sound very appealing unless you're talking a custom made passive radiator unit with an F3 in the low 30s.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*


Still dont understand too much of what you mean.
I ears are touching the pad slightly, cause I have kinda big ears. But I dont have Audeze pads on as I had to rip them of to send them for repair...


----------



## pez

Some very presumptuous posting happening that I'm too lazy to go back and quote and/or direct conversation at.

I liked the Audeze line, but it didn't bring to the table what I thought it would. Everyone raves over them as if it was the second coming of the HD650, and while it is very similar, and sounds quite good, some of that excitability comes from owners most likely not wanting to feel any less about their 'upgrade' for the low price of $800+.

And I like bass, but I don't like terrible bass. I listen to quite a bit of EDM. I'm a fan of the DT770, and the D7k. Not sure how you got that I don't like bass out of that. Unless you're just a bad troll. Example of terrible bass? The Mad Dogs I listened to. Bloated bass from a severely marked up headphone? Ok. The DT770 was a better value at that point so long as you could stand or EQ the peaky nature of them.

I've already expressed what I want in an 'upgrade' to the HD650, and I've found it, but a 5k setup is not something I'm in the market for at the moment.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Some very presumptuous posting happening that I'm too lazy to go back and quote and/or direct conversation at.
> 
> I liked the Audeze line, but it didn't bring to the table what I thought it would. Everyone raves over them as if it was the second coming of the HD650, and while it is very similar, and sounds quite good, some of that excitability comes from owners most likely not wanting to feel any less about their 'upgrade' for the low price of $800+.
> 
> *And I like bass, but I don't like terrible bass.* I listen to quite a bit of EDM. I'm a fan of the DT770, and the D7k. Not sure how you got that I don't like bass out of that. Unless you're just a bad troll. Example of terrible bass? The Mad Dogs I listened to. Bloated bass from a severely marked up headphone? Ok. The DT770 was a better value at that point so long as you could stand or EQ the peaky nature of them.
> 
> *Amen*
> 
> I've already expressed what I want in an 'upgrade' to the HD650, and I've found it, but a 5k setup is not something I'm in the market for at the moment.


Well one might also say it's presumptuous to think the conversation was in large part directed at you







, as I was discussing things with Aventadoor and educating (with little apparent success) OC Noob. I wasn't trying to push you to upgrade or trash your HD 650. *I'd say if you're happy with what you hear, that is the most precious thing in Hi-Fi* as the majority of Hi-Fi fanatics are like crackheads, they are always searching for a high rather than just enjoying the music. Music becomes second to the frothing at the mouth about the wonders the next upgrade will surely bring - and there's always something to upgrade apparently.

D7000 were great, but the bloat and very high sensitivity were pitfalls. Never heard the DT770 but from what I've heard that is certainly the best value for a "basshead", although that's not to say it's uniquely good for those who want bass.

But the excitement from the LCD-2, initially (at head-fi) at least, was due to their impeccable objective profile and the sound that resulted from it. Diminishing returns are the pitfalls of Hi-Fi, and justification or lack thereof for upgrading is personal, really. And the second coming of the HD650 puts them on a pedestal they don't deserve in the first place, but that's my opinion.




I'm not world class by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a drummer, and one of the things I appreciate most about the LCD-2 is how honest they are. This can be a bad thing with bad recordings, but with well recorded music they actually do drums justice. I am likely more drum oriented than most, as that is the instrument that I play, but they also span the entire spectrum with a lot of contrast. If headphones can do drums justice, they are good as far as I am concerned. And there's evidence to support why the LCD-2 can do justice other headphones simply cannot, the 50 hz square wave plots are infinitely better than what came before and are unequivocal proof of superiority, especially matched with flat response until 1 kHz. Within reasonable expectations, they speak the truth. Which may not be a good thing as not all recordings are equal.

Are they worth 2x the cost of the HD650 (MSRP)? Definitely I'd say, as you can get similar performance as the HD650 for a lot more, or for a lot less. 350$ is about the limit of diminishing returns until 1000$, unless the 699.99 Oppo offer similar performance.

I don't like Audeze as a brand, I personally don't care whose name is on what I am wearing.

But there's a lot of misconceptions about the bass spectrum here it would seem, and I was more focused on clearing those up and educating people than championing the LCD-2. They just happen to be able to recreate true bass. Could be Vanilla Ice Supa Swag headphones and I'd be saying the same thing if they had the same metrics and sound.


----------



## mr one

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Guys I have to come back to you again for advice. The Schiit Stack is not looking good for me. Living in the Netherlands and ordering from outside of EU is a real pain in the ass.
> 
> Ordering from the Schiit website, the total sum would be 338 USD (318.55 EUR). On top of all that, I have to pay an additional 21% VAT in the Netherlands, 2% import duties and administration costs to the shipper. According to my calculation, the total price is going to be 435 USD...
> 
> There is a retailer in the UK that sells Schiit products although their prices are too high (135 USD for the Modi 2 and 196 USD for the Magni 2 Uber). Additionally, I am not sure if they have the 230V Euro plug version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other DACs or amps you guys would recommend? Hopefully something I can buy here in Europe.


Graham slee


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I am getting the HD 600 for 200 euros.
> 
> With Vali, can I hook up my speakers to it as well?


http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB29H/NFB29HEN.htm

Would serve as DAC, Head-Amp, and Pre-Amp and would be significantly higher quality than the other products in terms of parts and construction and fidelity metrics. All-in-one is a good bonus to make life simple and makes the Schiit drop a "c" and an "i" by contrast.









Also performs significantly better than the Solo Ultra-Linear Headphone Amp [Diamond Edition] is 320$ cheaper /and/ has a DAC and pre-amp.

The EU/US manufacturer "tax" is ridiculous, even if they are built in China.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB29H/NFB29HEN.htm
> 
> Would serve as DAC, Head-Amp, and Pre-Amp and would be significantly higher quality than the other products in terms of parts and construction and fidelity metrics. All-in-one is a good bonus to make life simple and makes the Schiit drop a "c" and an "i" by contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also performs significantly better than the Solo Ultra-Linear Headphone Amp [Diamond Edition] is 320$ cheaper /and/ has a DAC and pre-amp.
> 
> The EU/US manufacturer "tax" is ridiculous, even if they are built in China.


Haha where would I get one?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Haha where would I get one?


Order it?

Netherlands DHL 18.00 37.00 57.00 112.00 137.00
TNT 18.00 36.00 63.00 122.00 150.00

Pretty sure it falls into the 57/63$ bracket.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Guys I have to come back to you again for advice. The Schiit Stack is not looking good for me. Living in the Netherlands and ordering from outside of EU is a real pain in the ass.
> 
> Ordering from the Schiit website, the total sum would be 338 USD (318.55 EUR). On top of all that, I have to pay an additional 21% VAT in the Netherlands, 2% import duties and administration costs to the shipper. According to my calculation, the total price is going to be 435 USD...
> 
> There is a retailer in the UK that sells Schiit products although their prices are too high (135 USD for the Modi 2 and 196 USD for the Magni 2 Uber). Additionally, I am not sure if they have the 230V Euro plug version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other DACs or amps you guys would recommend? Hopefully something I can buy here in Europe.


EHP-O2Di ("Desktop Edition")
EHP-O2D
E-DAC + EHP-O2

Head 'n' Hifi ODAC+O2 ("Desktop Edition")


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> EHP-O2Di
> EHP-O2D
> E-DAC + EHP-O2
> 
> Head 'n' Hifi ODAC+O2


http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

Erry time they win.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Haha where would I get one?


http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

Tell me you can find a better deal ;D

+ for 35$ you can get a TCXO clock added (20$) and a 35 watt transformer en lieu of a 20 watt one (15$).


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
> 
> Erry time they win.


$250+$40 shipping and guaranteed 21% price increase from VAT as DHL is the only shipping option.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
> 
> Tell me you can find a better deal ;D
> 
> + for 35$ you can get a TCXO clock added (20$) and a 35 watt transformer en lieu of a 20 watt one (15$).


This still counts as import.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> $250+$40 shipping and guaranteed 21% price increase from VAT as DHL is the only shipping option.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> This still counts as import.


And it doesn't if it's from elsewhere the EU it doesn't ? (Asking not super familiar with VAT.)

Either way you still get a better product even if VAT brings it up to 350$. There's a reason Audio GD shows off their innards and other companies hide it.

Schiit innards look like an intro to electronics kit in terms of quality.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> And it doesn't if it's from elsewhere the EU it doesn't ? (Asking not super familiar with VAT.)
> 
> Either way you still get a better product even if VAT brings it up to 350$. There's a reason Audio GD shows off their innards and other companies hide it.
> 
> Schiit innards look like an intro to electronics kit in terms of quality.


Everything that is sold within EU already has the ~21% VAT tag in it. For example the O2 amps I linked already have the VAT added to the price.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that is imported from outside of EU gets a ~21% VAT in the customs. Basically they call you from the customs and demand you to pay them 21% of the products price+shipping before they can give it to the local post office.


----------



## D3XXX

And in all seriousness the units you get ultimately come from the same country (China), one has the "US/EU designer tax " which in some scenarios goes as high as 80% where with audio GD you'd be hard pressed to make it yourself for that cost with those parts and complexity with the artificial presumption you would ultimately be capable in a month on your spare time. We have import duties here too of 14.5% (GST + PST) which is better than you but still a ton compared to someone ordering in the US so I can appreciate wanting to evade taxes despite them being a fair bit lower, but ultimately you'd be doing yourself a disservice as parts + quality + metrics + functionality / $ still heavily work in your favour going with Audio GD.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Everything that is sold within EU already has the ~21% VAT tag in it. For example the O2 amps I linked already have the VAT added to the price.
> Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that is imported from outside of EU gets a ~21% VAT in the customs. Basically they call you from the customs and demand you to pay them 21% of the products price+shipping before they can give it to the local post office.


Ah I see I forgot in Europe tax is applied to the price before sales and not after.

Makes it less compelling, especially if they tax shipping too but I believe in relative terms your money would still go further with audio GD if it's within budget.

Got to realise from a European or US company their products would be sold for anywhere from 2-10x their asking prices.


----------



## Sevada88

The one thing I have a problem with is the double VAT on top of the full price. I don't mind paying import duties. That's like 2% or 5% max. The VAT is what really drives the price up.

Say I order this one: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

That's $250, plus shipping say $50. That's a really nice price. But once imported into the Netherlands, I first have to pay import duties, then VAT, and once the product is delivered to my house, I have to pay the carrier another $20. That's (250+50)*1.02*1.21+20=$390.26.

You are right, I agree. The price is really good. My knowledge of audio gear is virtually non-existent, so I believe you when you say their products are high-quality.

Then comes my next problem. What do I do when this thing malfunctions after a year? I think it's going to be a hassle to RMA it and then get it back. Not only does it take ages, but then I have to pay again.

So you see where my problem comes from. Ordering from EU is probably my only good option.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Everything that is sold within EU already has the ~21% VAT tag in it. For example the O2 amps I linked already have the VAT added to the price.
> Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that is imported from outside of EU gets a ~21% VAT in the customs. Basically they call you from the customs and demand you to pay them 21% of the products price+shipping before they can give it to the local post office.


What about amazon in the EU? Do you have a spare pcie 1x slot because Asus offers the Essence STX and STX 2 with TXCO clock, that would be my second best bang for buck scenario but then you lose easy preamp ability although it would be possible.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Hmmz... Looks like EHP is closing up or sumthing.
Damn, now the only European ODAC/O2 shop is the Head 'n' HiFi. Although the service was top notch when I ordered my O2 I still think it would be better to have competition in the market.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> The one thing I have a problem with is the double VAT on top of the full price. I don't mind paying import duties. That's like 2% or 5% max. The VAT is what really drives the price up.
> 
> Say I order this one: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
> 
> That's $250, plus shipping say $50. That's a really nice price. But once imported into the Netherlands, I first have to pay import duties, then VAT, and once the product is delivered to my house, I have to pay the carrier another $20. That's (250+50)*1.02*1.21+20=$390.26.
> 
> You are right, I agree. The price is really good. My knowledge of audio gear is virtually non-existent, so I believe you when you say their products are high-quality.
> 
> Then comes my next problem. What do I do when this thing malfunctions after a year? I think it's going to be a hassle to RMA it and then get it back. Not only does it take ages, but then I have to pay again.
> 
> So you see where my problem comes from. Ordering from EU is probably my only good option.


I know in Canada you can refuse to have them broker it for you and do it yourself although 20$ is /far/ less than brokerage fees here. I've done this multiple times with UPS and saved around 600$ total. For 20$ I'd save my time.

Chances of needing an RMA are very low, and they have factory burn in. You shouldn't have to pay vat for a replacement/repair item although I don't know your laws. But if you keep documentation of payment delivery and RMA I don't see how that could be legal.

Well taking someone at their word isn't good, as much as I appreciate it. But an example would be their reference 7 DAC I gave that's 4-5 years old. It's DAC chips when it wad in production cost roughly 100 usd each, my DAC employs 4 stacked per channel so 800$. I paid 1500 for it or in that ballpark + taxes. I literally couldn't have made it myself for cheaper with the aluminium chassis, 3 power supplies etc not to mention brand name components on everything. The lower down you go the less this is representative, but Meier Audio produced a similar product employing one wolfson DAC and head amp and was about 700$ if memory serves.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> What about amazon in the EU? Do you have a spare pcie 1x slot because Asus offers the Essence STX and STX 2 with TXCO clock, that would be my second best bang for buck scenario but then you lose easy preamp ability although it would be possible.


Amazon is certainly an option. Amazon.de is German but it's not an issue, I can have it delivered in Germany. I first have to find the right product though. A DAC and an amp, or a combo. One that will allow me to connect both speakers and headphones to it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Hmmz... Looks like EHP is closing up or sumthing.
> Damn, now the only European ODAC/O2 shop is the Head 'n' HiFi. Although the service was top notch when I ordered my O2 I still think it would be better to have competition in the market.


But which one for both speakers (pair of JBL LSR305) and headphones (HD 600)

Someone also suggested I go for the SMSL M6 (http://www.amazon.de/SMSL-Mini-DAC-innenpolitischem-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker/dp/B00YGN0ZJI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448647931&sr=8-1&keywords=SMSL+M6)


----------



## D3XXX

I mean Krell is the only manufacturer I know of that produce the same quality of products and it is higher but you're then into the X0,000$ range


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> I mean Krell is the only manufacturer I know of that produce the same quality of products and it is higher but you're then into the X0,000$ range


Way out of my budget.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Amazon is certainly an option. Amazon.de is German but it's not an issue, I can have it delivered in Germany. I first have to find the right product though. A DAC and an amp, or a combo. One that will allow me to connect both speakers and headphones to it.
> But which one for both speakers (pair of JBL LSR305) and headphones (HD 600)
> 
> Someone also suggested I go for the SMSL M6 (http://www.amazon.de/SMSL-Mini-DAC-innenpolitischem-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker/dp/B00YGN0ZJI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448647931&sr=8-1&keywords=SMSL+M6)


That looks very functional although I don't speak German, but it depends on what you want to spend and how much you buy into hi-fi dos and don't...

External power supply is a big nono, anything but class a is a nono, fully discrete analog path is a yes but in that size, fat chance.

Will the Audio GD sound the amount of money better? Well if we agree no one can know for sure without having both on hand, the next option is to look into power supply to headphones between the unit, DAC and it's implementation and SN/R. Audio GD wins in all departments, their electrical engineering is some of the single best in the world. But real world use that unit looks pretty practical for the price tag. If you're the type to be happy and not wonder, I'd get that. If you see yourself selling it in a year for something high-end I would bite the bullet and go audio GD. But that's my 2c.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Amazon is certainly an option. Amazon.de is German but it's not an issue, I can have it delivered in Germany. I first have to find the right product though. A DAC and an amp, or a combo. One that will allow me to connect both speakers and headphones to it.
> But which one for both speakers (pair of JBL LSR305) and headphones (HD 600)
> 
> Someone also suggested I go for the SMSL M6 (http://www.amazon.de/SMSL-Mini-DAC-innenpolitischem-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker/dp/B00YGN0ZJI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448647931&sr=8-1&keywords=SMSL+M6)


O2+ODAC - Digital Version has pre-amp outputs for speakers. It would be similar to my current setup (Xonar D1 ---> Desktop O2 ---> HE-400 headphones *and* Behringer B3031A speakers).

The SMSL is unknown to me so can't help with that. But the optical input could be useful if your speakers are prone to groundloops (mine are...).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Way out of my budget.


Yeah mine too haha. But literally Krell will charge you 50 000$ for a monoblock Audio GD will charge you 10,000$ for. For a comparable western DAC to their highest end DACs you're looking at at least 5-25k for functionality, even higher with a fancy chassis

And Kingwa has good work conditions and salaries. Other companies just maximise profits.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> That looks very functional although I don't speak German, but it depends on what you want to spend and how much you buy into hi-fi dos and don't...
> 
> External power supply is a big nono, anything but class a is a nono, fully discrete analog path is a yes but in that size, fat chance.
> 
> Will the Audio GD sound the amount of money better? Well if we agree no one can know for sure without having both on hand, the next option is to look into power supply to headphones between the unit, DAC and it's implementation and SN/R. Audio GD wins in all departments, their electrical engineering is some of the single best in the world. But real world use that unit looks pretty practical for the price tag. If you're the type to be happy and not wonder, I'd get that. If you see yourself selling it in a year for something high-end I would bite the bullet and go audio GD. But that's my 2c.


Haha you must be a big Audio GD fan. Just joking. But you sure seem to trust these guys both product and service wise.

I'd have to calculate the price and see how much I end up with. This is my first high end audio gear, so I am considering my options.


----------



## Ithanul

Alright, think I ask it here.

I'm currently looking to buy a portable DAC/AMP combo for when I travel and out and about. Preferable entry or mid range. I been eyeing some of the FiiOs, but wondering if there might be some better ones instead.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ithanul*
> 
> Alright, think I ask it here.
> 
> I'm currently looking to buy a portable DAC/AMP combo for when I travel and out and about. Preferable entry or mid range. I been eyeing some of the FiiOs, but wondering if there might be some better ones instead.


Oppo

http://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2/


----------



## Tiihokatti

Always state your budget when asking for recommendations


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Haha you must be a big Audio GD fan. Just joking. But you sure seem to trust these guys both product and service wise.
> 
> I'd have to calculate the price and see how much I end up with. This is my first high end audio gear, so I am considering my options.


Well the more time you take the better. But it depends on your personality too.

And I'm not an Audio-GD fan, I'd buy Krell if I could afford it lol. Just I am unable to make anywhere close to enough money to afford stuff like that, so I look for what stretches my dollar the most.

Audio-GD (unless otherwise stated)

-Does pure class A
-Fully discrete analog paths
-No negative feedback to artificially improve SN/R
-uses all high end components throughout (capacitors etc)
-uses high end DAC chips
-has some of the best audio electrical engineering in the world, and show proof. They don't just claim X years of experience and have a fancy brand logo. They show the circuit, the entire inner product, everything, because they have nothing to hide.

But,

Will it
-Sound a few hundred dollars better
-be more functional
-be worth the investment

That's all really up to you and your personality.

If you think getting the other product, deciding it doesn't drive your headphones well enough, and want to upgrade within a year, I think you should seriously consider things.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ithanul*
> 
> Alright, think I ask it here.
> 
> I'm currently looking to buy a portable DAC/AMP combo for when I travel and out and about. Preferable entry or mid range. I been eyeing some of the FiiOs, but wondering if there might be some better ones instead.


Onkyo and Sony make them too but they are much more expensive and not more functional.

FiiO is crap (or the ones I tried, however I never tried any DAC combo units).


----------



## Ithanul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Onkyo and Sony make them too but they are much more expensive and not more functional.
> 
> FiiO is crap (or the ones I tried, however I never tried any DAC combo units).


That what I was wondering about. Hmmm, that Oppo ones you posted looks very nice and right in the price range I'm willing drop money down on.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ithanul*
> 
> That what I was wondering about. Hmmm, that Oppo ones you posted looks very nice and right in the price range I'm willing drop money down on.


Oppo isn't very well known, but to those that do know them they are a treasured manufacturer.

I still use my Oppo DVD player as a transport. It's like 6 years old, plays every format under the sun including SACD, HDCD, DVD-A, only thing it didn't read was Blu-ray.

I'd go with Oppo even over onkyo or sony's offerings (4-600$) because they have the Sabre 32 bit DAC in there and a 3000 maH battery in a slimmer profile. I'm sure the others are good too, but if I had the money for any, I'd go with the Oppo regardless.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well the more time you take the better. But it depends on your personality too.
> 
> And I'm not an Audio-GD fan, I'd buy Krell if I could afford it lol. Just I am unable to make anywhere close to enough money to afford stuff like that, so I look for what stretches my dollar the most.
> 
> Audio-GD (unless otherwise stated)
> 
> -Does pure class A
> -Fully discrete analog paths
> -No negative feedback to artificially improve SN/R
> -uses all high end components throughout (capacitors etc)
> -uses high end DAC chips
> -has some of the best audio electrical engineering in the world, and show proof. They don't just claim X years of experience and have a fancy brand logo. They show the circuit, the entire inner product, everything, because they have nothing to hide.
> 
> But,
> 
> Will it
> -Sound a few hundred dollars better
> -be more functional
> -be worth the investment
> 
> That's all really up to you and your personality.
> 
> If you think getting the other product, deciding it doesn't drive your headphones well enough, and want to upgrade within a year, I think you should seriously consider things.


It's definitely worth the investment. I am really looking forward to hearing high quality sound both through my speakers and headphones. That's something my setup is really missing.

Since it's my first, I want to buy something nice, and stick with it for a few years. I am sure after a while I will learn more about audio and will develop my own feeling/taste for it. Just like with everything else, audio pretty much comes down to personal preference. I mean everyone's ears are different. But since I haven't had my own high quality audio product before, I'd have to trust the judgment and experience of you guys. Overclock is the only place I have been asking about it because you guys know what you are talking about.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> It's definitely worth the investment. I am really looking forward to hearing high quality sound both through my speakers and headphones. That's something my setup is really missing.
> 
> Since it's my first, I want to buy something nice, and stick with it for a few years. I am sure after a while I will learn more about audio and will develop my own feeling/taste for audio. Just like with everything else, audio pretty much comes down to personal preference. I mean everyone's ears are different. But since I haven't had my own high quality audio product before, I'd have to trust the judgment and experience of you guys. Overclock is the only place I have been asking about it because you guys know what you are talking about.


Well I can't speak for anyone else's tastes but mine, but the things I said about audio-gd are facts, not my opinion. Not everyone likes Audio-GD, but it doesn't change the fact they are world class in their highest range, and dangerously competitive in their cheaper offerings.

If you google the parts they use, and their prices, the price of the chassis, you can start to put together yourself how much money is spent on components with Audio-GD. Sure they get bulk discount pricing, and have the advantage of having metal cheaper and etc, but even with those factored in, I doubt anyone could show a company that packs that amount of components for so low a cost.

But price/value and price/usefulness are two different things, and so is price/preference. But for price/value, the math speaks for itself.

And for what it's worth my Audio-GD gear is about 5 years old, never had an issue other than in the summer because over time they get hot haha (pure class A always gets hot).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> It's definitely worth the investment. I am really looking forward to hearing high quality sound both through my speakers and headphones. That's something my setup is really missing.
> 
> Since it's my first, I want to buy something nice, and stick with it for a few years. I am sure after a while I will learn more about audio and will develop my own feeling/taste for it. Just like with everything else, audio pretty much comes down to personal preference. I mean everyone's ears are different. But since I haven't had my own high quality audio product before, I'd have to trust the judgment and experience of you guys. Overclock is the only place I have been asking about it because you guys know what you are talking about.


Another thing to consider is that with how much you paid (theoretically) in VAT and shipping, you could sell a second hand Audio-GD for a reasonable sum of money because a) they last and b) the person won't be paying the taxes and shipping.

Due to the quality, components, and shipping costs the value is retained much more in the second hand market, at least in North America.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ithanul*
> 
> That what I was wondering about. Hmmm, that Oppo ones you posted looks very nice and right in the price range I'm willing drop money down on.


http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DAC-HA200-Converter-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00N1SCNV2

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PHA2-PHA-2-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00J0XR11E/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448650649&sr=1-3&keywords=sony+headphone+amp

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PHA1A-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00TIAYRDO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448650649&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+headphone+amp

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PHA-3-Headphone-High-Resolution-Audio/dp/B00RC8LA1Q/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448650649&sr=1-2&keywords=sony+headphone+amp


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well I can't speak for anyone else's tastes but mine, but the things I said about audio-gd are facts, not my opinion. Not everyone likes Audio-GD, but it doesn't change the fact they are world class in their highest range, and dangerously competitive in their cheaper offerings.
> 
> If you google the parts they use, and their prices, the price of the chassis, you can start to put together yourself how much money is spent on components with Audio-GD. Sure they get bulk discount pricing, and have the advantage of having metal cheaper and etc, but even with those factored in, I doubt anyone could show a company that packs that amount of components for so low a cost.
> 
> But price/value and price/usefulness are two different things, and so is price/preference. But for price/value, the math speaks for itself.


I am leaning more toward these to be honest. I was also reading their warranty page. They sure stand behind their product but damn, how much does it cost to have a few thousand words translated...


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well one might also say it's presumptuous to think the conversation was in large part directed at you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , as I was discussing things with Aventadoor and educating (with little apparent success) OC Noob. I wasn't trying to push you to upgrade or trash your HD 650. *I'd say if you're happy with what you hear, that is the most precious thing in Hi-Fi* as the majority of Hi-Fi fanatics are like crackheads, they are always searching for a high rather than just enjoying the music. Music becomes second to the frothing at the mouth about the wonders the next upgrade will surely bring - and there's always something to upgrade apparently.
> 
> D7000 were great, but the bloat and very high sensitivity were pitfalls. Never heard the DT770 but from what I've heard that is certainly the best value for a "basshead", although that's not to say it's uniquely good for those who want bass.
> 
> But the excitement from the LCD-2, initially (at head-fi) at least, was due to their impeccable objective profile and the sound that resulted from it. Diminishing returns are the pitfalls of Hi-Fi, and justification or lack thereof for upgrading is personal, really. And the second coming of the HD650 puts them on a pedestal they don't deserve in the first place, but that's my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not world class by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a drummer, and one of the things I appreciate most about the LCD-2 is how honest they are. This can be a bad thing with bad recordings, but with well recorded music they actually do drums justice. I am likely more drum oriented than most, as that is the instrument that I play, but they also span the entire spectrum with a lot of contrast. If headphones can do drums justice, they are good as far as I am concerned. And there's evidence to support why the LCD-2 can do justice other headphones simply cannot, the 50 hz square wave plots are infinitely better than what came before and are unequivocal proof of superiority, especially matched with flat response until 1 kHz. Within reasonable expectations, they speak the truth. Which may not be a good thing as not all recordings are equal.
> 
> Are they worth 2x the cost of the HD650 (MSRP)? Definitely I'd say, as you can get similar performance as the HD650 for a lot more, or for a lot less. 350$ is about the limit of diminishing returns until 1000$, unless the 699.99 Oppo offer similar performance.
> 
> I don't like Audeze as a brand, I personally don't care whose name is on what I am wearing.
> 
> But there's a lot of misconceptions about the bass spectrum here it would seem, and I was more focused on clearing those up and educating people than championing the LCD-2. They just happen to be able to recreate true bass. Could be Vanilla Ice Supa Swag headphones and I'd be saying the same thing if they had the same metrics and sound.


Yeah, I know the entire conversation wasn't directed at me. I quoted and then lost my quotes on mobile where he asked me something along the lines of 'you don't like, bass, do you?'

Just troll-ish statements I usually ignore, but it was early







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I know the entire conversation wasn't directed at me. I quoted and then lost my quotes on mobile where he asked me something along the lines of 'you don't like, bass, do you?'
> 
> Just troll-ish statements I usually ignore, but it was early
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I don't recall, but I just know there was a lot of misinformation going around and wanted to clear the air with real world examples, although I believe OC Noob didn't learn anything and either didn't respond or blocked me which is disappointing because I enjoy teaching when qualified and he could have really benefited; can't teach an old dog new tricks as they say ;D. But I am slightly envious, as ignorance is bliss, and if I wasn't aware of the fact half of the albums I own were (re)mixed and/or recorded by asshats I'd be perfectly happy listening to anything on iPod earbuds...


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I am leaning more toward these to be honest. I was also reading their warranty page. They sure stand behind their product but damn, how much does it cost to have a few thousand words translated...


Hahahaha when have much good English no need expensive translate service!

You should see some of the audiophile terminology translations they have.

I don't think much money is put into the site, the workers work in good environments and are apparently paid pretty well, and Kingwa hasn't patented anything (IIRC) and has openly published circuits for amps and etc for the DIY community. He is very enthusiastic about the community and I from what I know of him, he is a very humble and generous man.

ACSS is Audio-GDs proprietary implementation of a technology that seems to be unpatented directly. Sony used similar things marketed as ACT (audio current transfer) in their ES series, Krell uses CAST which they claim to have invented and have patented.

Krell isn't cheap.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-32015/Master-32015EN.htm

That from Krell would cost half a house lol.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Hahahaha when have much good English no need expensive translate service!


Si senor


----------



## D3XXX

delete


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Hahahaha when have much good English no need expensive translate service!
> 
> You should see some of the audiophile terminology translations they have.
> 
> I don't think much money is put into the site, the workers work in good environments and are apparently paid pretty well, and Kingwa hasn't patented anything (IIRC) and has openly published circuits for amps and etc for the DIY community. He is very enthusiastic about the community and I from what I know of him, he is a very humble and generous man.
> 
> ACSS is Audio-GDs proprietary implementation of a technology that seems to be unpatented directly. Sony used similar things marketed as ACT (audio current transfer) in their ES series, Krell uses CAST which they claim to have invented and have patented.
> 
> Krell isn't cheap.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-32015/Master-32015EN.htm
> 
> That from Krell would cost half a house lol.


How do you know so much about this?


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> I don't recall, but I just know there was a lot of misinformation going around and wanted to clear the air with real world examples, *although I believe OC Noob didn't learn anything and either didn't respond or blocked me which is disappointing because I enjoy teaching when qualified and he could have really benefited*; can't teach an old dog new tricks as they say ;D. But I am slightly envious, as ignorance is bliss, and if I wasn't aware of the fact half of the albums I own were (re)mixed and/or recorded by asshats I'd be perfectly happy listening to anything on iPod earbuds...


I didn't block you, though I DID choose to simply ignore you, the reasons being 1) I don't like your attitude when posting (feels extremely arrogant and elitist to me) and 2) I just don't agree with you quite frankly. I choose to listen to people when I feel what they are saying is worthwhile. To be honest, I do not see anything that you have posted in response to me that I can "learn" from as you so presumptuously claim. We all have our ways of interpreting what we hear and choosing how we interpret what we are hearing. While I agree that bass itself is best compared as a combination of mid-bass and sub-bass, I also believe you can absolutely compare different spectrums of different headphones to compare them for certain types of sounds. Quite frankly, I do not care at all if you think this is wrong. This is simply advice I am offering to the other member. Also, I would appreciate it if you would keep my name out of your mouth. I never responded to you or talked to you or even brought up your name when I felt you were being rude (maybe you were joking around, maybe you weren't) and even when you brought up my name the first time around. Reciprocate that courtesy please and stop mentioning me. You give your advice and I give mine. If you feel like my advice is incorrect, just offer your perspectives.

PS
To others, I apologize if I come off as a jerk as I am not one. Feel free to ask anyone in the headphones club as I am generally very laid back with other audio lovers and very open to feedback and suggestions.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I didn't block you, though I DID choose to simply ignore you, the reasons being 1) I don't like your attitude when posting (feels extremely arrogant and elitist to me) and 2) I just don't agree with you quite frankly. I choose to listen to people when I feel what they are saying is worthwhile. To be honest, I do not see anything that you have posted in response to me that I can "learn" from as you so presumptuously claim. We all have our ways of interpreting what we here and choosing how we interpret what we are. While I agree that bass itself is best compared as a combination of bass and sub-bass, I also believe you can absolutely compare different spectrums of different headphones to compare them for certain types of sounds. Quite frankly, I do not care at all if you think this is wrong. This is simply advice I am offering to the other member. Also, I would appreciated if you would keep my name out of your mouth. I never responded to you or talked to you or even brought up your name when I felt you were being rude (maybe you were joking around, maybe you weren't) and even when you brought up my name the first time around. Reciprocate that courtesy please and stop mentioning me. You give your advice and I give mine. If you feel like my advice is incorrect, just offer your perspectives.
> 
> PS
> To others, I apologize if I come off as a jerk as I am not one. Feel free to ask anyone in the headphones club as I am generally very laid back with other audio lovers and very open to feedback and suggestions.


Actually I completely agree with you


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I didn't block you, though I DID choose to simply ignore you, the reasons being 1) I don't like your attitude when posting (feels extremely arrogant and elitist to me) and 2) I just don't agree with you quite frankly. I choose to listen to people when I feel what they are saying is worthwhile. To be honest, I do not see anything that you have posted in response to me that I can "learn" from as you so presumptuously claim. We all have our ways of interpreting what we here and choosing how we interpret what we are. While I agree that bass itself is best compared as a combination of bass and sub-bass, I also believe you can absolutely compare different spectrums of different headphones to compare them for certain types of sounds. Quite frankly, I do not care at all if you think this is wrong. This is simply advice I am offering to the other member. Also, I would appreciated if you would keep my name out of your mouth. I never responded to you or talked to you or even brought up your name when I felt you were being rude (maybe you were joking around, maybe you weren't) and even when you brought up my name the first time around. Reciprocate that courtesy please and stop mentioning me. *You give your advice and I give mine. If you feel like my advice is incorrect, just offer your perspectives.
> 
> If your advice isn't based on empirically valid perspectives/opinions/whatnots it's highly arrogant to think it's worthwhile as an agent of contrast to empirically correct points.
> *PS
> To others, I apologize if I come off as a jerk as I am not one. Feel free to ask anyone in the headphones club as I am generally very laid back with other audio lovers and very open to feedback and suggestions.


Hahaha well that certainly was a can of worms I wasn't expecting! but I did get your goat







.

Was more joking around, hence the melodramatic tone.

And, personally I think the 3rd reason is you knew you were wrong about mid-bass, beyond it being a result of dynamic transducers in speakers.

Learn that sub-bass is a misnomer -subsonic is the world used for starters







. SPL levels being what he was describing as feeling more so than the mid-bass spectrum ("That, in fact, is mid-bass" IIRC), and it fell into part of your spectrum due to inadequacies of dynamic transducer crossover networks and high F3s in speakers vs planar headphones -and most likely not because that's what the source sounds like.

That genesis of the spectra and playback are entirely different, and unless you have something flat, you don't get out what they put in (providing they did a good job of putting it in, which they seldom do enough). That picking mid-bass and comparing it to planars is useless... more dynamics than can be named have an SPL increase there, and may even have similar square wave plots to planars in the mid-bass region, but bass is part and parcel with mid-bass, electronic music aside. What's the point of leaving out 80-100hz of a spectrum and then comparing headphones? That's like leaving out 0-60 mph times and comparing fuel economy in super cars.

And I wasn't "teaching" you, specifically, was more openly discussing misconceptions at large.

And I wasn't giving advice so much as insight into the schism between what we are used to hearing played back (usually through dynamic transducers), and what something actually sounds like acoustically, like a ported bass drum as elucidated on. Advice would infer a personal colouration, I wasn't giving advice, I was giving real-world experience (through my young ears, granted) as a means of helping people understand things better, successfully or not.

And you can perceive me as elitist and arrogant all you want, I just call a spade a spade when it comes to peoples' audio confabulations, which come in spades. Badoumtish.

It's not arrogant or elitist to ask for an example of an instrument that produces a "rumble" other than a struggling subwoofer playing a movie soundtrack, which obviously isn't an instrument.
Nor is it to speak as accurately as possible, avoiding misnomers etc.
Nor is it to cite widely known data, like double-blind results.
Data speaks for itself when its understood, I'm not responsible for people's understanding or lack thereof, all I did was try and help.
Might be contextually obnoxious, but arrogant wouldn't fit the bill as none of this has to do with me or my personal opinions.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> How do you know so much about this?


Too much time reading and on forums haha.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Hahaha well that certainly was a can of worms I wasn't expecting! but I did get your goat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Was more joking around, hence the melodramatic tone.
> 
> And, personally I think the 3rd reason is you knew you were wrong about mid-bass, beyond it being a result of dynamic transducers in speakers.
> 
> Learn that sub-bass is a misnomer -subsonic is the world used for starters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . SPL levels being what he was describing as feeling more so than the mid-bass spectrum ("That, in fact, is mid-bass" IIRC), and it fell into part of your spectrum due to inadequacies of dynamic transducer crossover networks and high F3s in speakers vs planar headphones -and most likely not because that's what the source sounds like.
> 
> That genesis of the spectra and playback are entirely different, and unless you have something flat, you don't get out what they put in (providing they did a good job of putting it in, which they seldom do enough). That picking mid-bass and comparing it to planars is useless... more dynamics than can be named have an SPL increase there, and may even have similar square wave plots to planars in the mid-bass region, but bass is part and parcel with mid-bass, electronic music aside. What's the point of leaving out 80-100hz of a spectrum and then comparing headphones? That's like leaving out 0-60 mph times and comparing fuel economy in super cars.
> 
> And I wasn't "teaching" you, specifically, was more openly discussing misconceptions at large.
> 
> And I wasn't giving advice so much as insight into the schism between what we are used to hearing played back (usually through dynamic transducers), and what something actually sounds like acoustically, like a ported bass drum as elucidated on. Advice would infer a personal colouration, I wasn't giving advice, I was giving real-world experience (through my young ears, granted) as a means of helping people understand things better, successfully or not.
> 
> And you can perceive me as elitist and arrogant all you want, I just call a spade a spade when it comes to peoples' audio confabulations, which come in spades. Badoumtish.
> 
> It's not arrogant or elitist to ask for an example of an instrument that produces a "rumble" other than a struggling subwoofer playing a movie soundtrack, which obviously isn't an instrument.
> Nor is it to speak as accurately as possible, avoiding misnomers etc.
> Nor is it to cite widely known data, like double-blind results.
> Data speaks for itself when its understood, I'm not responsible for people's understanding or lack thereof, all I did was try and help.
> Might be contextually obnoxious, but arrogant wouldn't fit the bill as none of this has to do with me or my personal opinions.


Like I said, I do not believe you are correct so I didn't bother responding to you. I also don't like the way you post so I didn't bother to respond you. If it helps you sleep better at night trying to say I was wrong, feel free. Doesn't bother me a single bit. I stand by my statement however that mid-bass is the thumping or bass slam that people hear while sub-bass is the vibrations you feel as your ear can't hear frequencies below a certain level. You can call it whatever you want, but those are things I believe in and will continue to share. Keep making assumptions about me though. All the more power to you. Just make sure to keep my name out of your mouth. I don't care to be associated with your posts honestly, given the posts that I've read of yours. On my end, I will simply ignore you and move on and let you go about your "teaching" ways.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> Like I said, I do not believe you are correct so I didn't bother responding to you. I also don't like the way you post so I didn't bother to respond you. If it helps you sleep better at night trying to say I was wrong, feel free. Doesn't bother me a single bit. I stand by my statement however that mid-bass is the thumping or bass slam that people hear while sub-bass is the vibrations you feel as your ear can't hear frequencies below a certain level. You can call it whatever you want, but those are things I believe in and will continue to share. Keep making assumptions about me though. All the more power to you. Just make sure to keep my name out of your mouth. I don't care to be associated with your posts honestly, given the posts that I've read of yours. On my end, I will simply ignore you and move on and let you go about your "teaching" ways.


Subsonic frequencies do cause physical feedback, depending on SPL and proximity it'll make your entire chest and throat shudder, and earlobes shake, I agree. But so can audible frequencies given the SPL. But sub-bass and sub-sonic are apparently not synonymous according to you, and if that makes it easier to explain your auditory experiences, that's one thing, if it distorts your ability to convey factual information(as it seems to be) then there is no value to you beliefs, no matter how strong your convictions are. But you can pontificate all you want in the forums.

the lowest registers produce enough excursion to both be heard and felt, if accurately reproduced. A dynamic headphone with a mid-bass boost and low end roll off, and square waves that look like barbed wiring is not going to be able to do that.

I am just working with what I know of you -not making assumptions, which is impersonal and limited to be fair, but consistently inaccurate by the same token so there's a trend.

But even given all that, your age would help dictate a lot in terms of low end hearing ability and that is an unknown factor as well. So you could very well be telling the truth as far as you know it. I'm open to any possibility really.

I am sure, OC'ing Noob, that you and I can come to a friendly relationship, even if we have to sort of codifying of words before... even though such words already exist - but I digress.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I didn't block you, though I DID choose to simply ignore you, the reasons being 1) I don't like your attitude when posting (feels extremely arrogant and elitist to me) and 2) I just don't agree with you quite frankly. I choose to listen to people when I feel what they are saying is worthwhile. To be honest, I do not see anything that you have posted in response to me that I can "learn" from as you so presumptuously claim. We all have our ways of interpreting what we hear and choosing how we interpret what we are hearing. While I agree that bass itself is best compared as a combination of mid-bass and sub-bass, I also believe you can absolutely compare different spectrums of different headphones to compare them for certain types of sounds. Quite frankly, I do not care at all if you think this is wrong. This is simply advice I am offering to the other member. Also, I would appreciate it if you would keep my name out of your mouth. I never responded to you or talked to you or even brought up your name when I felt you were being rude (maybe you were joking around, maybe you weren't) and even when you brought up my name the first time around. Reciprocate that courtesy please and stop mentioning me. You give your advice and I give mine. If you feel like my advice is incorrect, just offer your perspectives.
> 
> PS
> To others, I apologize if I come off as a jerk as I am not one. Feel free to ask anyone in the headphones club as I am generally very laid back with other audio lovers and very open to feedback and suggestions.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tiihokatti*
> 
> Actually I completely agree with you


I just want everyone to be friends in here







.

I'll be honest that I skipped a lot because of the walls of text, and I felt the tone was condescending...yet the internet is bad for conveying tones of sarcasm and joking in general







.

I'm sorry if I made a statement that started a fuss (that or I'm thinking too highly of myself right now







), as my initial post was a bit harsh towards a member and towards a particular set of cans. I know I value extension in bass over quantity. I think that's why I liked the HD650 enough to give up the DT770.

While the DT770 was great for quanity, decent in quality, and great in extension, it could get peaky (in treble) and very fatiguing for me, personally. The HD650 offered extension, detail in the bass, and just enough quantity for me. And most importantly, smoothed out that top end, but not so much that you can't enjoy just about anything on it. It can leave a small bit of desire in the quantity of bass, but that's a rarity for me. That's the reason the Stax SR007 (MK2 according to my buddy, Tjj) was special to me. It took everything that makes the HD650 great, and made it _excellent_. Detail and soundstage is on another level, and then the bass was immense, while still holding onto the detail. But I talk about these and the AKG's quite often, and I know people get tired of seeing that







.

On a side note:

I get my Q701s today. Pretty excited to play some CS:GO now







. Kinda excited to finally get a really good deal of personal time with them as well to help the community some, too







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Guys, why don't you guys just agree to disagree. He does have good points if you read it without being pissed off. I read his posts as trying to discuss something and adits to being obnoxious about it, but he does make that clear even says that he believes that they can come to friendly relationship / terms.
> 
> Believing someone is incorrect without presenting data / evidence is called an opinion and we're all entitled to that but it also means we have some bias. So let's just all move along and let's not pout like the people on Head-fi please!!!


Well I would agree to disagree, but when there is a multitude of objective metrics, and linguistic errors that point to him mainly being wrong that's hardly a mature compromise as far as I am concerned.

sub-bass is subsonic, and can still be felt we agreed on that, or the second half at least. However, subsonic wavelengths are not emitted from playback devices, except, perhaps, with some extreme exceptions as 20 hz is the low end cap for a compact disk - which happens to fall into the audible spectrum for humans, although that does fade with age. But the entire region he pontificates exists, is called "sub-bass", doesn't even get heard by anyone when listening to playback. In actual recording it is present and has a physical presence. If he wants to use "sub-bass" to describe the lower audible registers, then that's fine, but it's not unacceptable to ask what on earth he is referring to when he uses a misnomer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I just want everyone to be friends in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I'll be honest that I skipped a lot because of the walls of text, and I felt the tone was condescending...yet the internet is bad for conveying tones of sarcasm and joking in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *Nah it likely did read condescendingly because I was fed up at that point. People's demand for their opinions be respected when they are verifiably false is just utter nonsense.*
> 
> I'm sorry if I made a statement that started a fuss (that or I'm thinking too highly of myself right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), as my initial post was a bit harsh towards a member and towards a particular set of cans. I know I value extension in bass over quantity. I think that's why I liked the HD650 enough to give up the DT770.
> 
> *No I was trying to pull his leg and got kicked (own fault), not your fault*
> 
> While the DT770 was great for quanity, decent in quality, and great in extension, it could get peaky (in treble) and very fatiguing for me, personally. The HD650 offered extension, detail in the bass, and just enough quantity for me. And most importantly, smoothed out that top end, but not so much that you can't enjoy just about anything on it. It can leave a small bit of desire in the quantity of bass, but that's a rarity for me. That's the reason the Stax SR007 (MK2 according to my buddy, Tjj) was special to me. It took everything that makes the HD650 great, and made it _excellent_. Detail and soundstage is on another level, and then the bass was immense, while still holding onto the detail. But I talk about these and the AKG's quite often, and I know people get tired of seeing that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> On a side note:
> 
> I get my Q701s today. Pretty excited to play some CS:GO now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Kinda excited to finally get a really good deal of personal time with them as well to help the community some, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *Despite them not being do-able for my anthropometry I recommended the same headphones and an Asus Xonar STX when a good buddy said he said he could never hear anything in game. While he waited for them to arrive he kept asking about speakers as he wanted "a large sound field" and I told him not to worry. He wasn't convinced when he received them, hooked them up and shat his pants.
> *


Depends which community you are in haha. ESEA is the scum of the earth, but the only people worth playing against IMO. Matchmaking is a nightmare because of how just about any idiot can have a sheriff badge (DMG) or LE + and make their way into LEM/SMFC/GE games from time to time. Plus it's horrible that matchmaking only ticks at 64 ticks.

That being said, if you have a good sound card snd_mixahead 0.05- 0.015 ( 50 - 15 ms respectively, default is 0.5 , or 500 ms) depending on how low you can get it helps a lot with audio latency.

mat_queue_mode 2 (-1 is default single threaded) will boost your FPS and is not accessible from anything but console (yes there is an advanced option for multicore rendering but it is only one of several cvars, mat_queue_mode 2 being far more important)

mc_dead_zone_radius 0 removes the deadzone, although the devs finally fixed the default to 0.06, for 0.6, which is almost imperceptible, but I still like knowing there is 0 deazone







. And no, it does not apply to joystick/gamepads, it affects mouse input.

And if your soundcard can downmix to stereo output, if you right-click your volume icon in windows, configure 5.1, enable full-range speakers for all of them, finish, set 24/96 kHz quality, and set 5.1 in game you'll get a dramatically better audio experience for positional audio.

I have a lot of high level tweaks, most concerning mouse input (and no, not a simple mousefix that raw_input 1 bypasses (forcing markC mousefix by applying the registry tweak, then /ticking/ enhanced pointer precision is still useful for any game that does't use raw input as his fix emulates it), I'm talking registry and windows timer resolution mods that work hand in hand with raw_input), if you're interested, just PM me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR5awi8UIB4&list=PLbRnj6uKTc_uVqFIfF3Faa6GTYL9pf6uf

Short work of MM kiddies







.

And yes I play with a purple dot corsshair:businesss
The edited video doesn't show it though and kinda screws up the entire thing with the time warps but it was free, so I won't complain. That was on ESEA when I used to play a lot. Have more demos on my computer of p2000 5ks than I care to name haha. I was top of NA charts for quite a few months. With a G100S

But I haven't really played the last two years due to getting reactive arthritis for 22 months (been in remission for 5, being able to walk again is great), which made it far too painful to even sit at a chair and play, despite palliative care narcotics and 5 co-analgesics. It usually lasts for 6-12 months, previous max was 14, my rheumatologist had to update the literature (lucky me), and he was respectful of my considered refusal of Chemo (methotrexate) and Biologics (TNF inhibitors like Humira) because there was no way I was putting xenobiotic crap like that in my body. Drugs designed by human neurons to kill human cells? I'll pass.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I get my Q701s today. Pretty excited to play some CS:GO now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Kinda excited to finally get a really good deal of personal time with them as well to help the community some, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Tell us what you think. I was blown away by the K7xx's performance for gaming, coming from a DT 880.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Tell us what you think. I was blown away by the K7xx's performance for gaming, coming from a DT 880.


Which version of the DT-880?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Which version of the DT-880?


The "Pro" model which is 250 Ohm.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The "Pro" model which is 250 Ohm.


I wish bets with yourself paid out







I didn't say but I was expecting pro 32 ohm but didn't want to make it sound like I was attacking you or your budget so left it open ended. And I guess I only half won in any case.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Well I would agree to disagree, but when there is a multitude of objective metrics, and linguistic errors that point to him mainly being wrong that's hardly a mature compromise as far as I am concerned.
> 
> sub-bass is subsonic, and can still be felt we agreed on that, or the second half at least. However, subsonic wavelengths are not emitted from playback devices, except, perhaps, with some extreme exceptions as 20 hz is the low end cap for a compact disk - which happens to fall into the audible spectrum for humans, although that does fade with age. But the entire region he pontificates exists, is called "sub-bass", doesn't even get heard by anyone when listening to playback. In actual recording it is present and has a physical presence. If he wants to use "sub-bass" to describe the lower audible registers, then that's fine, but it's not unacceptable to ask what on earth he is referring to when he uses a misnomer.
> Depends which community you are in haha. ESEA is the scum of the earth, but the only people worth playing against IMO. Matchmaking is a nightmare because of how just about any idiot can have a sheriff badge (DMG) or LE + and make their way into LEM/SMFC/GE games from time to time. Plus it's horrible that matchmaking only ticks at 64 ticks.
> 
> That being said, if you have a good sound card snd_mixahead 0.05- 0.015 ( 50 - 15 ms respectively, default is 0.5 , or 500 ms) depending on how low you can get it helps a lot with audio latency.
> 
> mat_queue_mode 2 (-1 is default single threaded) will boost your FPS and is not accessible from anything but console (yes there is an advanced option for multicore rendering but it is only one of several cvars, mat_queue_mode 2 being far more important)
> 
> mc_dead_zone_radius 0 removes the deadzone, although the devs finally fixed the default to 0.06, for 0.6, which is almost imperceptible, but I still like knowing there is 0 deazone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And no, it does not apply to joystick/gamepads, it affects mouse input.
> 
> And if your soundcard can downmix to stereo output, if you right-click your volume icon in windows, configure 5.1, enable full-range speakers for all of them, finish, set 24/96 kHz quality, and set 5.1 in game you'll get a dramatically better audio experience for positional audio.
> 
> I have a lot of high level tweaks, most concerning mouse input (and no, not a simple mousefix that raw_input 1 bypasses (forcing markC mousefix by applying the registry tweak, then /ticking/ enhanced pointer precision is still useful for any game that does't use raw input as his fix emulates it), I'm talking registry and windows timer resolution mods that work hand in hand with raw_input), if you're interested, just PM me.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR5awi8UIB4&list=PLbRnj6uKTc_uVqFIfF3Faa6GTYL9pf6uf
> 
> Short work of MM kiddies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> And yes I play with a purple dot corsshair:businesss
> The edited video doesn't show it though and kinda screws up the entire thing with the time warps but it was free, so I won't complain. That was on ESEA when I used to play a lot. Have more demos on my computer of p2000 5ks than I care to name haha. I was top of NA charts for quite a few months. With a G100S
> 
> But I haven't really played the last two years due to getting reactive arthritis for 22 months (been in remission for 5, being able to walk again is great), which made it far too painful to even sit at a chair and play, despite palliative care narcotics and 5 co-analgesics. It usually lasts for 6-12 months, previous max was 14, my rheumatologist had to update the literature (lucky me), and he was respectful of my considered refusal of Chemo (methotrexate) and Biologics (TNF inhibitors like Humira) because there was no way I was putting xenobiotic crap like that in my body. Drugs designed by human neurons to kill human cells? I'll pass.


Yeah, I'm at DMG now, and I don't mind kinda being there. I've gone up to LE once, but realized I needed some more work for sure. However, I try not to take it too seriously, and is the main reason I avoid anything like ESEA. I've got a bud that's just getting into CS in general, so that's some motivation, too. I just bought the game again to 'smurf' and play with him just for the sake of him not getting kicked out of MM because he's just new. I have no plans on carrying him, though at some point I'm sure it's unavoidable.

Since my PSU went out, I haven't hooked up my Ti-HD back up, but it was just outputting optical to the Bifrost Uber I have. I'm curious to see the difference with what I'm doing now, but I'm going to take a look at those console commands, too. Thanks







.

Just re-read and saw your last tidbit. Sorry to hear about the 'growing pains'







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Tell us what you think. I was blown away by the K7xx's performance for gaming, coming from a DT 880.


Definitely. If I like them, it's going to suck because I'm going to want to try out the K7XX, too.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Definitely. If I like them, it's going to suck because I'm going to want to try out the K7XX, too.


It should be pretty much the same for gaming, and based on your listening preferences I think you'll like your HD 650 better than both of them for music.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> It should be pretty much the same for gaming, and based on your listening preferences I think you'll like your HD 650 better than both of them for music.


I'm thinking so, too, but it's just curiosity in me







. The same reason I had to try out the DT770 32 LEs before







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I'm at DMG now, and I don't mind kinda being there. I've gone up to LE once, but realized I needed some more work for sure. However, I try not to take it too seriously, and is the main reason I avoid anything like ESEA. I've got a bud that's just getting into CS in general, so that's some motivation, too. I just bought the game again to 'smurf' and play with him just for the sake of him not getting kicked out of MM because he's just new. I have no plans on carrying him, though at some point I'm sure it's unavoidable.
> 
> Since my PSU went out, I haven't hooked up my Ti-HD back up, but it was just outputting optical to the Bifrost Uber I have. I'm curious to see the difference with what I'm doing now, but I'm going to take a look at those console commands, too. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Just re-read and saw your last tidbit. Sorry to hear about the 'growing pains'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Definitely. If I like them, it's going to suck because I'm going to want to try out the K7XX, too.


Haha it's all good, but thanks for the words. Was tough being unable to walk at 22 going on 23, although back then I was happy I survived the ICU for a week as the food poisoning that caused the illness, penetrated my colon and meant it made it into systemic circulation where it came into contact with my very rare gene that responds with reactive arthritis. There's only 4 known bacteria that can cause the reaction and it's extremely rare- I was told I basically won the lottery, but the bad kind. Gotta love the doctors who know how to spin your perspective in the right direction

Interestingly enough, campylobacter jejuni hides and aggregates in joints until it is powerful enough to attack the host, and I have a gene that responds to any presence of it in systemic circulation with global auto immune bombardment. Was every joint at the same time, all the time. Horrifically painful. But it is interesting to find out that it's almost as if I carry a gene that seeks to preemptively attack sites where the infection would build. Less interesting when 500 mg of azithromycin for 17 days took care of the infection. Only Jeans change with our modern lives, not genes :<







.

Too bad 300 mg of oxycodone, 900 mg of Lyrica/pregabalin, 300 mg of Effexor/vanlefaxine, 90 mg of mirtrazepine/Remeron, 15 mg of meloxicam and 4 grams of Tylenol / day barely kept the pain away. I think I went on a total of 17 prednisone cycles in 2 years as it flared up and died down repeatedly. I know the ER like my living room haha. -_-.

I'm not sure if snd_mixahead would work with a digital out, although I might try myself later. You will know the value is too low when the sound skips or sounds like its coming out of a kaleidoscope increments of 0.005 can make or break it. So I'd progressively work down from 0.05 (assuming that works) until the sound screws up and then bump it back up once or twice and verify it never skips.

If you have 2 or more cores, mat_queue_mode 2 will unilaterally improve your FPS. You can toggle -1 and 2 back and forth to see the difference. 0 and 1 are not the same (don't ask me why, I don't know, I just know 0 is for "synchronous" rendering and 1 doesn't do anything IIRC). once used in game you can just add +mat_queue_mode 2 to your launch options, put it in game once, and it will continue to automatically execute it on startup. and + not -, - is for launch only commands, + is for cvars forced at launch, so -high "-novid -nojoy +mat_queue_mode 2" is an example.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> It should be pretty much the same for gaming, and based on your listening preferences I think you'll like your HD 650 better than both of them for music.


The Quincy compared to the regular AKGs? or AKG to the Senns? I am confused. Unless the soundstage is disorienting, I'd say it would probably make it's biggest difference in games. Especially with spatial algorithms being used to downmix 6 channels to 2.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm thinking so, too, but it's just curiosity in me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The same reason I had to try out the DT770 32 LEs before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I hated the headband mainly. There was something just /off/ tonally to me, but I have a record from a head-fi user who used them to master and mix and it sounds great so clearly just my personal FR didn't jive.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> The Quincy compared to the regular AKGs? or AKG to the Senns? I am confused. Unless the soundstage is disorienting, I'd say it would probably make it's biggest difference in games. Especially with spatial algorithms being used to downmix 6 channels to 2.


I meant the Q701's sound stage vs that of the K7xx.


----------



## pez

Interesting. I'll definitely give it a try. Now that you mention the adverse affects of the mixahead, I think that is something I've tried, but will be sure a bit later. The way it messes up sounds familiar.


----------



## LightSol

What about the v-moda m100's?


----------



## pez

I don't think I've heard them, yet. I think I heard a pair at the meet, but it was a pretty short audition. But I can't honestly give a comment on them as I'm not 100%. They were a very FOTM (flavor of the month) on Head-fi at one point, but I'm not sure what the overall opinion is (or still is) of them, now.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I meant the Q701's sound stage vs that of the K7xx.


Isn't the Q701 just a "Goosebumps" themed K701 and wasn't the K702 just the black model? Or am I missing out on something here?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Interesting. I'll definitely give it a try. Now that you mention the adverse affects of the mixahead, I think that is something I've tried, but will be sure a bit later. The way it messes up sounds familiar.


Yeah other than the skipping it's pretty much ineffable no matter how eloquent one is, or at least that's my excuse and I am sticking to it







.

Although I highly doubt you heard about it from CS:GO, and more likely a doom 3 mod like CoD or Quake 3 or Quakelive. FTR CS:GO is a doom 2 mod







.

And just to be clear, you could place an autoexec in launch options, provided you used + everywhere, its just not easy to read, edit, etc so autoexec.cfg were more common, but with how little cvars that can actually be manipulated in CS:GO I haven't bothered with an autoexec and just put

+rate 128000 +m_rawinput 1 +mc_dead_zone_radius 0 +cl_updaterate 128 +cl_cmdrate 128 +cl_interp 0 +cl_interp_ratio 0 +snd_mixahead 0.02 -high -novid -nojoy

in launch options, and just run them in console and then you're good to go from then on. FTR 0 in CS:GO is no the same as in 1.6 or source, it functions as a "lowest possible server acceptable value", so for interp it's best left at 0 and the rates, well they can't run beyond server spec, but won't run any faster if the server is so it's best to keep them high.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

I am tempted to try the Oppo PM-1 as well. Lots of great headphones out there now.


----------



## Aventadoor

Ive heard Oppo PM-1 and 2. Sounds like a boring Audeze to my ears








Tho they are alot more comfertable, but Audeze is going to sell the LCD-4 headband.


----------



## pez

Pretty impressed by the Q701 in a music standpoint. It's not my taste for anything that needs some energy, but anything vocal, or extremely well produced, it's quite the treat.

I just took a listen to 'Lullabies' by Yuna (same song I first auditioned on the K1000) and I can definitely see the 'resemblance' that the Q/K7xx series have to their older brethren. No qualms with the headband yet. I was a bit fearful as I wear a headband to keep my hair back and bad padding can take it's toll and irritate that band on my head. They feel light to the point that they almost feel cheap, but they don't feel cheap....hard to explain. About to fire up some CS:GO now.

If anyone cares:


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Pretty impressed by the Q701 in a music standpoint. It's not my taste for anything that needs some energy, but anything vocal, or extremely well produced, it's quite the treat.
> 
> I just took a listen to 'Lullabies' by Yuna (same song I first auditioned on the K1000) and I can definitely see the 'resemblance' that the Q/K7xx series have to their older brethren. No qualms with the headband yet. I was a bit fearful as I wear a headband to keep my hair back and bad padding can take it's toll and irritate that band on my head. They feel light to the point that they almost feel cheap, but they don't feel cheap....hard to explain. About to fire up some CS:GO now.
> 
> If anyone cares:


Try some well recorded classical. My K7xx is very impressive for this, mops the floor with the DT 880 Pro.


----------



## Aventadoor

What would be the "bassy" alternative to HD650? Philips Fidelio X2?
When I say bassy I mean which hits the hardest, kinda like discussed earlier in this thread.

I think I will get rid of my HE-6 and stereoamps with so many new headphones coming!


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> What would be the "bassy" alternative to HD650? Philips Fidelio X2?
> When I say bassy I mean which hits the hardest, kinda like discussed earlier in this thread.
> 
> I think I will get rid of my HE-6 and stereoamps with so many new headphones coming!


Audeze I guess. Both are warm with some treble roll off (although the LCD-4 supposedly doesn't have treble roll off, I can't say as I haven't heard it) and Audeze has much more bass impact.

If I had an HE-6 and a good power amp for it, I'd probably keep them and look into modding it. I know you have new pads on yours, not sure what else.


----------



## Aventadoor

But I have owned LCD-2, X and 3F... I dont want Audeze in my life anymore








The latest conclusion with HE-6 is that you dont need fuzzor mod etc. Blue tack and Audeze pads is more then enough!
HE-6 have more impact than LCD-2 and 3 with fazor, except maybe LCD-X.
Those who have not heard HE-6 proporly amped, please do not quote me on this claiming something different.

I listen to alot of house music, electronic music, indie, little rap. But I hate bloomy loose bass like many "cheaper" headphones ive heard have, like the Audioquest Nighthawk... They just sound muddy.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Try some well recorded classical. My K7xx is very impressive for this, mops the floor with the DT 880 Pro.


Yeah, that's actually a really well recorded track. Sounds a bit narrow in that YT video.

Now the good stuff:

After 4 games of CS:GO, I have to say I'm extremely happy with this purchase. I felt a bit more 'in' the game. It sounds cliche, but I did hit that point of hearing footsteps I'd never heard before. For CS:GO, we know that's pretty important. At first it was almost a bit disorienting, but after adjusting, I got into a groove. My last match, I did very well with 2 or 3 clutch rounds. I felt a sense of 'auditory' synchronization with the sound and my aim once I got used to the headphones. I'll have to load something up like Bad Company 2 or BF4 to see how it fairs in those games. CS:GO doesn't really make a big deal over big, bassy explosions like the BF games do, so I'll be sure to test that out tomorrow. I felt they got a bit warm? It could have just been adrenaline, though lol. They are comfy, and light, but the earpads are a bit stiff. Could just need some wear, but more importantly, they don't squeeze against my glasses which come out a bit wide.

Like you predicted, boredgunner, I definitely still prefer the HD650 for music. The HD650 is the right amount of 'intimate' for music. Even the song I posted earlier. Even though you don't notice the nuances as much (you hear them, but the HD650 puts voices/mids as a priority over soundstage and the like), you don't care as much because every thing else comes at you with the smoothness the HD650 is known for. I'm sure I'm leaving a bit out, but I've thoroughly enjoyed myself gaming with the Q701.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> But I have owned LCD-2, X and 3F... I dont want Audeze in my life anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latest conclusion with HE-6 is that you dont need fuzzor mod etc. Blue tack and Audeze pads is more then enough!
> HE-6 have more impact than LCD-2 and 3 with fazor, except maybe LCD-X.
> Those who have not heard HE-6 proporly amped, please do not quote me on this claiming something different.
> 
> I listen to alot of house music, electronic music, indie, little rap. But I hate bloomy loose bass like many "cheaper" headphones ive heard have, like the Audioquest Nighthawk... They just sound muddy.


Well then you'll want to avoid headphones with large midbass boosts as the "bloat" "bumph" "muddiness" generally come from there and/or resonance is closed back headphone. Or even worse, inverted FR in the low end, ie instead of rolling off downwards for a dynamic, it goes up. I believe sony's XB series had something like that IIRC but I could be mistaken.

Honestly, if you weren't happy with Audeze, I don't think you'll be happy with anything and might get more benefit from a high quality EQ. Maybe try Jriver. Electronic music and rap music can be very poorly produced, really depends who you listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82aED9-3y6o

If you can get a HQ version of that song it's one of the ones I use as a reference as the recording is very well done, and there are plenty of dynamics, both combined and intermittently isolated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oODrHO4Wn4

I like this song a lot mainly due to the drop "inception" at the beginning what you think is the drop is decent, then the actual drop comes









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcsrvqPVsUk

Good to test a multitude of lows in one track

And I just love this track. Infected mushroom produce some fine stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_MisbWUUrg


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, that's actually a really well recorded track. Sounds a bit narrow in that YT video.
> 
> Now the good stuff:
> 
> After 4 games of CS:GO, I have to say I'm extremely happy with this purchase. I felt a bit more 'in' the game. It sounds cliche, but I did hit that point of hearing footsteps I'd never heard before. For CS:GO, we know that's pretty important. At first it was almost a bit disorienting, but after adjusting, I got into a groove. My last match, I did very well with 2 or 3 clutch rounds. I felt a sense of 'auditory' synchronization with the sound and my aim once I got used to the headphones. I'll have to load something up like Bad Company 2 or BF4 to see how it fairs in those games. CS:GO doesn't really make a big deal over big, bassy explosions like the BF games do, so I'll be sure to test that out tomorrow. I felt they got a bit warm? It could have just been adrenaline, though lol. They are comfy, and light, but the earpads are a bit stiff. Could just need some wear, but more importantly, they don't squeeze against my glasses which come out a bit wide.
> 
> Like you predicted, boredgunner, I definitely still prefer the HD650 for music. The HD650 is the right amount of 'intimate' for music. Even the song I posted earlier. Even though you don't notice the nuances as much (you hear them, but the HD650 puts voices/mids as a priority over soundstage and the like), you don't care as much because every thing else comes at you with the smoothness the HD650 is known for. I'm sure I'm leaving a bit out, but I've thoroughly enjoyed myself gaming with the Q701.


Haha told you it might be almost disorienting!


----------



## Sevada88

Uhhhhh CSGO talk. What are you guys? Global Elites? I have only started playing a month ago or so. 125 hours in, MG2 with 19 comp wins.

Going back to the subject of audio, I already got an HD600, JBl speakers are planned but I am taking my time to find the right DAC/amp. The HD 600 is currently connected to the back of my PC. Explain me something. When I am playing CSGO with my HD 600, I hear footsteps pretty loudly, even if the enemies are above or below me. For instance on Nuke, when I am in bombsite B, and an enemy is running in bombsite A, I can hear the footsteps and they are loud enough for me to think the enemy is near me. Why is this? Is it because the headphones are connected to the back of the PC, is it some game settings that I have to change or is the HD 600 just not a good headphone for gaming?

Don't get me wrong, I love the HD 600. It comfortable, it's light and I know it's great for music. But I am def in the market for a good quality gaming headphone, and music second. If the HD 600 will have better soundstage with a DAC and amp, I would love to keep it. If not, I still have time to return it and get something else.

Also, what mic do you guys use?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Uhhhhh CSGO talk. What are you guys? Global Elites? I have only started playing a month ago or so. 125 hours in, MG2 with 19 comp wins.
> 
> Going back to the subject of audio, I already got an HD600, JBl speakers are planned but I am taking my time to find the right DAC/amp. The HD 600 is currently connected to the back of my PC. Explain me something. When I am playing CSGO with my HD 600, I hear footsteps pretty loudly, even if the enemies are above or below me. For instance on Nuke, when I am in bombsite B, and an enemy is running in bombsite A, I can hear the footsteps and they are loud enough for me to think the enemy is near me. Why is this? Is it because the headphones are connected to the back of the PC, is it some game settings that I have to change or is the HD 600 just not a good headphone for gaming?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the HD 600. It comfortable, it's light and I know it's great for music. But I am def in the market for a good quality gaming headphone, and music second. If the HD 600 will have better soundstage with a DAC and amp, I would love to keep it. If not, I still have time to return it and get something else.
> 
> Also, what mic do you guys use?


I'm a 'starfish' in CS:GO







. Sometimes I make it to LE







.

After using the AKGs last night, I've determined that it's just due to soundstage differences in the two. I always had the same issue with the HD650 on Dust 2. People jumping from X-box to cat always sounded like they were on cat right above CT spawn (while being in CT). I think that's where software tweaking comes into play. Once you get an amp, I assume it will improve your soundstage a bit, but I still think in comparison to something like the AKG, without some software changes, it's never going to trade blows with the Q/K7XX in that aspect.


----------



## Aventadoor

Playing CSGO with HE-6 is so funny, sounds so much different compared to my PC360.
I need to get a Modmic asap!
Im Supreme.


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm a 'starfish' in CS:GO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sometimes I make it to LE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> After using the AKGs last night, I've determined that it's just due to soundstage differences in the two. I always had the same issue with the HD650 on Dust 2. People jumping from X-box to cat always sounded like they were on cat right above CT spawn (while being in CT). I think that's where software tweaking comes into play. Once you get an amp, I assume it will improve your soundstage a bit, but I still think in comparison to something like the AKG, without some software changes, it's never going to trade blows with the Q/K7XX in that aspect.


Have you used virtual surround software? Is that the kind of software tweaking you are talking about?
I love the HD 600, wouldn't want to return them, but it this is going to affect gameplay, then I'd be forced to do it.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Have you used virtual surround software? Is that the kind of software tweaking you are talking about?
> I love the HD 600, wouldn't want to return them, but it this is going to affect gameplay, then I'd be forced to do it.






That's what I use for CS:GO with the game feeding 6 channels. Soundcard upscales to 7.1 then downsamples to 2.0 resulting in the best possible positional audio you can get since 3D accelerated audio is no longer supported you have to rely on syncing your settings with Windows, Sound Card, In Game and using algorithms and chips to downsample.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Playing CSGO with HE-6 is so funny, sounds so much different compared to my PC360.
> I need to get a Modmic asap!
> Im Supreme.


Sennheiser's gaming line is a travesty.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'm a 'starfish' in CS:GO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sometimes I make it to LE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> After using the AKGs last night, I've determined that it's just due to soundstage differences in the two. I always had the same issue with the HD650 on Dust 2. People jumping from X-box to cat always sounded like they were on cat right above CT spawn (while being in CT). I think that's where software tweaking comes into play. Once you get an amp, I assume it will improve your soundstage a bit, but I still think in comparison to something like the AKG, without some software changes, it's never going to trade blows with the Q/K7XX in that aspect.


Real test is Nuke.

And you can't necessarily hear someone jump on xbox, or to cat for that matter if they know basics of controlling movement and noise. If you crouch before you jump, or mid air and hold you land silently, no matter what surface. The only hard one is on nuke jumping from twinkie to mini-roof. I find it's best to silently boost, and circle jumponto the rooftop, firing rounds at the roof just before you land to mask it, or at least where you landed. It's very effective to spam it while falling to conceal yourself and following teammates.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Uhhhhh CSGO talk. What are you guys? Global Elites? I have only started playing a month ago or so. 125 hours in, MG2 with 19 comp wins.
> 
> Going back to the subject of audio, I already got an HD600, JBl speakers are planned but I am taking my time to find the right DAC/amp. The HD 600 is currently connected to the back of my PC. Explain me something. When I am playing CSGO with my HD 600, I hear footsteps pretty loudly, even if the enemies are above or below me. For instance on Nuke, when I am in bombsite B, and an enemy is running in bombsite A, I can hear the footsteps and they are loud enough for me to think the enemy is near me. Why is this? Is it because the headphones are connected to the back of the PC, is it some game settings that I have to change or is the HD 600 just not a good headphone for gaming?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the HD 600. It comfortable, it's light and I know it's great for music. But I am def in the market for a good quality gaming headphone, and music second. If the HD 600 will have better soundstage with a DAC and amp, I would love to keep it. If not, I still have time to return it and get something else.
> 
> Also, what mic do you guys use?


Oh dear, you must not be having fun.

Do you have any hours in 1.6 or source?

I have like 75x your hours between all 3 games. But it was the only game I played for 7 years, have won about 2000$, although not all cash, some poopy poopsteel prizes, and I don't watch any TV.

cl_showpos 1 will show a graph in the top left corner of the screen showing your movement speed under "Vel: X" . A) it proves those expletives running out of spawn with nades out instead of knives are in fact holding up the "gahddamn lunchlinuh" (cartman) b) it shows you when the axis swap when changing from A strafe to D strafe. You want to fire as it changes, that way you avoid to coming to a full stop for a prolonged period of time, and never hold W while shooting unless its a pistol, if its a pistol, ONLY hold W and turn using your mouse. The second you add a strafe + W it Fs your aim with any weapon. You an turn fastest only holding W and turning with a mouse as it's part of the circle jump glitch left over from its Doom 2 DNA, and cl_showpos 1 will prove that.


----------



## D3XXX

Only player I have had trouble against is Adren, but that's mainly because he plays very disrespectfully.

Volcano, Ksharp, mOE, clown, caseyfoster, Hiko, freakazoid all fair game, except caseyfoster, he was a very easy frag and ksharp, but I only played against him in GO and he wasn't used to it. Hiko is a pretty easy frag too, since he plays far too aggro outside of tourney environments for his hitscan ability. Sadly for him my hitscan is deadly. Volcano also isn't very good outside a team environment. I went 10-1 first chance op frag vs him on train between both sides. He's much better with a team.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Have you used virtual surround software? Is that the kind of software tweaking you are talking about?
> I love the HD 600, wouldn't want to return them, but it this is going to affect gameplay, then I'd be forced to do it.


Not personally, but check D3XXX's post







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I use for CS:GO with the game feeding 6 channels. Soundcard upscales to 7.1 then downsamples to 2.0 resulting in the best possible positional audio you can get since 3D accelerated audio is no longer supported you have to rely on syncing your settings with Windows, Sound Card, In Game and using algorithms and chips to downsample.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Real test is Nuke.
> 
> And you can't necessarily hear someone jump on xbox, or to cat for that matter if they know basics of controlling movement and noise. If you crouch before you jump, or mid air and hold you land silently, no matter what surface. The only hard one is on nuke jumping from twinkie to mini-roof. I find it's best to silently boost, and circle jumponto the rooftop, firing rounds at the roof just before you land to mask it, or at least where you landed. It's very effective to spam it while falling to conceal yourself and following teammates.


Good post. I'll have to look for some similar settings in Craptek settings or hook my sound card back up to see if anything is available. To boot, though, I'm happy with the Q701.

And yeah. I don't play Nuke often. Just not a fun map IMO when you're playing with random people. And I'm in DMG, so there are plenty of noobs that don't know how to not be noisy in mid







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Not personally, but check D3XXX's post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Good post. I'll have to look for some similar settings in Craptek settings or hook my sound card back up to see if anything is available. To boot, though, I'm happy with the Q701.
> 
> And yeah. I don't play Nuke often. Just not a fun map IMO when you're playing with random people. And I'm in DMG, so there are plenty of noobs that don't know how to not be noisy in mid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


"Wait and clutch" if they are making noise like asshats everywhere then yeah I understand there's little incentive to be more silent yourself, but perfect practice makes practice, not practice alone, so it's something to consider.

Some realtek chips can in fact do it, some cannot. Figuring out if yours can sometimes is a PITA. And always download the latest driver from your MOBO manufacturer.

Also, Razer offers free surround sound software. I don't use razer software as I don't agree to their datamining clause in spynapse, nor with how many times their mice have broken on me and how infuriating the RMA process has been. But their recent software has been highly rated, and it's free - you don't have to have the misfortune of owning a Razer mouse to use the sound software, but I cannot personally vouch for it.


----------



## pez

Yeah, I've considered trying it. I may for the sake of the Q701. I've had nothing but good luck with all of my DeathAdders thus far







. I had my first one around 4 or so years before I retired it. I had a Black Edition and used it for a couple years and eventually gave it away when I went to the DA2013. And now I'm on to the Chroma once it gets here







. Half the time I'm too lazy to mess with settings, so I like a set it and forget it method. So I'll probably set my colors, set my DPI, and then uninstall the software. I like the 'set it and forget it' mindset for my mouse.


----------



## Aventadoor

I use Zowie ZA11 in CSGO and have used 4 other Zowie mouse in CSGO.
Tho I will get a new mouse. Obviously you wanna eliminate every possible variable or keep them at a very minimum to be more consistent etc.
Well... I strongly believe Zowie's clicks might hinder performance, and their 3310 mouse feels **** compared to even Steelseries Rival!
So slow and unresponsive.
But to be honest, I dont play to become pro, and the more you think of your hardware is your limiting factor, the worse you probably get.

Anyway, Ive put all my gear up for sale! Hope it doesnt take as long as it took with my LCD-3F to sell...
Might slag some Pioneer Master-1s! Its a used pair for sale here!


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yeah, I've considered trying it. I may for the sake of the Q701. I've had nothing but good luck with all of my DeathAdders thus far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I had my first one around 4 or so years before I retired it. I had a Black Edition and used it for a couple years and eventually gave it away when I went to the DA2013. And now I'm on to the Chroma once it gets here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Half the time I'm too lazy to mess with settings, so I like a set it and forget it method. So I'll probably set my colors, set my DPI, and then uninstall the software. I like the 'set it and forget it' mindset for my mouse.


Holy Christ are you ever lucky.

I had 4 original deathadders break on me. That's when I stopped buying them as only 2 were replaced by warranty which fought like hell to deter you from getting a replacement (unlike Logitech who sent me a new G9X when I asked to buy skates for my perfectly functional G9X) which also broke. And I'm not hard on mice. In fact, no other mouse I have ever used has broken, even my G5, which is older and my dad has used it while I haven't.

But then the 2013 came out, looked like they finally matured the designed, I decided to go against my instinct and buy it. And I loved it -until m1 broke 6 days later. Still the best Deathadder to date by a longshot, except if you were to swap the original sensor with the new sensor and keep the new chassis, but that won't happen, but still typical Razer build quality.

I was a jerk and baited and swapped at best-buy and the second one has lasted a good while now, although I've been afraid to use it.

Razer also doesn't have on-board memory anymore, that's why spynapse is such a piss off ass it's a dual pronged "make money off data mining" + "save money on on-board memory = marketing cloud software that apparently no one took 5 seconds to think about why in hell they would need the goddamned cloud when their profiles are onboard - except they aren't anymore with razer.

Smart business moves, horribly unethical.

I like the set it and forget it mindset too, that's why I use a universal sensitivity ( 6/11 (or raw input when available) * (DPI) * (in game) = 1000) to dial in instantly the same sensitivity no mater which mouse or DPI it happens to be using, and then make minor adjustments for Y axis differences (lowering it if the sensor is higher up, raising it if the sensor is lower down). Although I'm a stickler for high IPS and refuse to use below 800 DPI for those reasons (as 400 + etc especially in older mice will shave off meters at a time).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I use Zowie ZA11 in CSGO and have used 4 other Zowie mouse in CSGO.
> Tho I will get a new mouse. Obviously you wanna eliminate every possible variable or keep them at a very minimum to be more consistent etc.
> Well... I strongly believe Zowie's clicks might hinder performance, and their 3310 mouse feels **** compared to even Steelseries Rival!
> So slow and unresponsive.
> *But to be honest, I dont play to become pro, and the more you think of your hardware is your limiting factor, the worse you probably get.
> *
> 
> *Once you actually have things set up perfectly this is absolutely true as it brings you "out of the game" but until you've isolated everything, there are many, many things to fix and tweak that will make anyone perform better.*
> 
> Anyway, Ive put all my gear up for sale! Hope it doesnt take as long as it took with my LCD-3F to sell...
> Might slag some Pioneer Master-1s! Its a used pair for sale here!




The zowie must be awful then. I have heard similar things from friends with the same mouse.

Honestly, after how bad they mutilated the ADNS 3090, I wouldn't give them any of my money. They have no idea what they are doing, although some of the shapes seem interesting. Unsurprising their stupid pre-set dpi settings perform poorly.

Only thing worse than Zowie IMO is FinalMouse as it's just a Chinese rebrand (they got busted when their stickers started peeling off and revealing the original Chinese manufacturer and people have disassembled them and verified they are in fact just rebrands of a Chinese company.) So they can't design a mouse chassis, can't design a PCB, can't do any of the easy stuff, and I'm supposed to believe that firmware is their saving grace??? when the SROM is the single most complex part of the mouse?? lol what a joke.

And no that photo is not edited with a "shotgun" brush in paint.


----------



## D3XXX

command prompt as admin:

bcdedit /set useplatformclock flase
bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Oh dear, you must not be having fun.
> 
> Do you have any hours in 1.6 or source?
> 
> I have like 75x your hours between all 3 games. But it was the only game I played for 7 years, have won about 2000$, although not all cash, some poopy poopsteel prizes, and I don't watch any TV.


Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.

I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> cl_showpos 1 will show a graph in the top left corner of the screen showing your movement speed under "Vel: X" . A) it proves those expletives running out of spawn with nades out instead of knives are in fact holding up the "gahddamn lunchlinuh" (cartman) b) it shows you when the axis swap when changing from A strafe to D strafe. You want to fire as it changes, that way you avoid to coming to a full stop for a prolonged period of time, and never hold W while shooting unless its a pistol, if its a pistol, ONLY hold W and turn using your mouse. The second you add a strafe + W it Fs your aim with any weapon. You an turn fastest only holding W and turning with a mouse as it's part of the circle jump glitch left over from its Doom 2 DNA, and cl_showpos 1 will prove that.


I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> That's what I use for CS:GO with the game feeding 6 channels. Soundcard upscales to 7.1 then downsamples to 2.0 resulting in the best possible positional audio you can get since 3D accelerated audio is no longer supported you have to rely on syncing your settings with Windows, Sound Card, In Game and using algorithms and chips to downsample.


Wait, you use a soundcard as well? So if I have a DAC/amp, I have to connect the soundcard to the DAC using an optical cable. And of course to benefit from surround, you sound card must support that. What soundcard do you have?

Oh and one other questions about Audio-GD FNB-11. I am seriously considering getting this. This is a DAC/amp combo, right? Connecting the speakers to the line outs in the back, do the speakers benefit from the built in amp or not? If not, what determines the quality of the speakers then? (Sorry noob questions but I am trying to find out as much as possible).


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.
> 
> I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
> I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.
> 
> I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
> I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.
> 
> I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
> I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha


Glad to hear you're having fun.

Actually all of matchmaking is nothing haha, but there's nothing wrong with being happy with your progress.

Vel: is velocity, its an important game mechanic as velocity is how fast you are moving, it tops out at 250 units/second with a knife, 245 with a nade out, you can google a list of all the different weapons and their speed hit, but the more important thing is understanding that your movement is the single most important thing in the game.

ADA / DAD = here your velocity will change 2 times for 3 keystrokes *ADA*AAAAAAAA*AD*D*DA*AAAAA*ADADADA*AAAAAAAAAA / DDDDD*DA*AAAAAAAAA*ADADADA*A*AD*DDDDDDDDDDDDD

All the bolded parts are when your velocity will be shifting. When you change from A to D or D to A, no matter the speed your velocity will have to hit 0 as it changes to the other axis and you need to fire at that moment. The faster you are moving the longer it takes for the VEL to swap axis. But in doing this you accomplish 2 things. 1 you are much harder to hit 2, you are firing at precise moments to exploit the engine, and can easily move or fire again as needed. If you have cl_showpos 1 up and look at it as you strafe in a practice by yourself you will see what I mean. But this is assuming you are not holding W or D, never hold either of them while firing, except with pistols where only W or D is okay, but the strafing mechanic still works with pistols.

So in practice its DA(burst 3-4)D if person is alive you keep d held and fire right after hitting A and burst 3-4 again

So DA(burst 3-4)DDDDA(burst3-4)D would be how it would play out, invert it if you started from the opposite strafe key.

if you have to spray aim at their chode after 5-6 if they are close, if they are medium range, aim at their feet after 5-6.


----------



## D3XXX

Anyways this is getting really off-top, PM if you wanna add me on steam or anything.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> 
> 
> The zowie must be awful then. I have heard similar things from friends with the same mouse.
> 
> Honestly, after how bad they mutilated the ADNS 3090, I wouldn't give them any of my money. They have no idea what they are doing, although some of the shapes seem interesting. Unsurprising their stupid pre-set dpi settings perform poorly.
> 
> Only thing worse than Zowie IMO is FinalMouse as it's just a Chinese rebrand (they got busted when their stickers started peeling off and revealing the original Chinese manufacturer and people have disassembled them and verified they are in fact just rebrands of a Chinese company.) So they can't design a mouse chassis, can't design a PCB, can't do any of the easy stuff, and I'm supposed to believe that firmware is their saving grace??? when the SROM is the single most complex part of the mouse?? lol what a joke.
> 
> And no that photo is not edited with a "shotgun" brush in paint.


That graph from Rival, whats bad about it?

Rival with 1.4.0.0 firmware is a beast.
Zowie is the worst 3310 ive used, except for the Mionix Avior with the earliest firmware.
But yeah, look at pro's, many pro's who use Zowie. Alot of pro's who you could consider using bad settings.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> That graph from Rival, whats bad about it?
> 
> Rival with 1.4.0.0 firmware is a beast.
> Zowie is the worst 3310 ive used, except for the Mionix Avior with the earliest firmware.


the dots are supposed to be on the lines... view the original full size. The title is the settings, the plot is the X axis log.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.
> 
> I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
> I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha
> Wait, you use a soundcard as well? So if I have a DAC/amp, I have to connect the soundcard to the DAC using an optical cable. And of course to benefit from surround, you sound card must support that. What soundcard do you have?
> 
> Oh and one other questions about Audio-GD FNB-11. I am seriously considering getting this. This is a DAC/amp combo, right? Connecting the speakers to the line outs in the back, do the speakers benefit from the built in amp or not? If not, what determines the quality of the speakers then? (Sorry noob questions but I am trying to find out as much as possible).


Sorry missed some important questions in there.

Yes it's a DAC/Headamp/pre-amp combo but it will not amp speakers on it's own. But will serve 3/4 functions needed for speakers. For 250$ (yes I know it's more to your door) you can't get anything close to 118 dB SNR with no negative feedback. It's not possible. (Negative feedback is considered cheating for artificially high SN/R, audio GD achieves extremely high SN/R without implementing negative feedback).

Soundcard is a modded (50-60$ texas op amp upgrades x3 free from TI haha) Asus Xonar Essence STX, has two 6.3 mm TRS, one for headphone output, one for microphone input, has optical or RCA-BNC (coax) out, and it also has stereo RCA out.

I have a RCA to BNC cable going from the coax RCA port on the soundcard to a BNC on my DAC.

I also have a RCA to BNC player for my Oppo DVD player that I use as a CD/HDCD/SACD/etc transport

When I play CS: GO I put the headphones in the jack in the soundcard.

You can't have the card do all the processing then send it stereo to the DAC, that I am aware of.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> Holy Christ are you ever lucky.
> 
> I had 4 original deathadders break on me. That's when I stopped buying them as only 2 were replaced by warranty which fought like hell to deter you from getting a replacement (unlike Logitech who sent me a new G9X when I asked to buy skates for my perfectly functional G9X) which also broke. And I'm not hard on mice. In fact, no other mouse I have ever used has broken, even my G5, which is older and my dad has used it while I haven't.
> 
> But then the 2013 came out, looked like they finally matured the designed, I decided to go against my instinct and buy it. And I loved it -until m1 broke 6 days later. Still the best Deathadder to date by a longshot, except if you were to swap the original sensor with the new sensor and keep the new chassis, but that won't happen, but still typical Razer build quality.
> 
> I was a jerk and baited and swapped at best-buy and the second one has lasted a good while now, although I've been afraid to use it.
> 
> Razer also doesn't have on-board memory anymore, that's why spynapse is such a piss off ass it's a dual pronged "make money off data mining" + "save money on on-board memory = marketing cloud software that apparently no one took 5 seconds to think about why in hell they would need the goddamned cloud when their profiles are onboard - except they aren't anymore with razer.
> 
> Smart business moves, horribly unethical.
> 
> I like the set it and forget it mindset too, that's why I use a universal sensitivity ( 6/11 (or raw input when available) * (DPI) * (in game) = 1000) to dial in instantly the same sensitivity no mater which mouse or DPI it happens to be using, and then make minor adjustments for Y axis differences (lowering it if the sensor is higher up, raising it if the sensor is lower down). Although I'm a stickler for high IPS and refuse to use below 800 DPI for those reasons (as 400 + etc especially in older mice will shave off meters at a time).


I think the first mouse to ever break on me was a MX518. I truly miss that mouse. After 6 or 7 years the click on it went out. Thinking back on it now, I could have most likely cleaned the contact and fixed it. Because of it, I've almost snagged the G502...but just testing out in store, it seems 'off' and too heavy.

Do you know what the default DPI is? Is it 1,000 like the 2013? I may test it out and adjust my in game sense (I normally play 800DPI and 1.0 in-game). Still not excited about that. They could have at least made a noticeable weight difference in it if that was the case







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> 
> 
> The zowie must be awful then. I have heard similar things from friends with the same mouse.
> 
> Honestly, after how bad they mutilated the ADNS 3090, I wouldn't give them any of my money. They have no idea what they are doing, although some of the shapes seem interesting. Unsurprising their stupid pre-set dpi settings perform poorly.
> 
> Only thing worse than Zowie IMO is FinalMouse as it's just a Chinese rebrand (they got busted when their stickers started peeling off and revealing the original Chinese manufacturer and people have disassembled them and verified they are in fact just rebrands of a Chinese company.) So they can't design a mouse chassis, can't design a PCB, can't do any of the easy stuff, and I'm supposed to believe that firmware is their saving grace??? when the SROM is the single most complex part of the mouse?? lol what a joke.
> 
> And no that photo is not edited with a "shotgun" brush in paint.


Glad I avoided the FinalMouse, then







. Something told me to avoid it for some reason or another.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Nope, CSGO is my first CS game.
> 
> I am actually having a blast. I bought the game back in 2012. Only started really playing in Sep/Oct of this year. The first time I played GO in 2012, I was unfamiliar with the game mechanics etc. After not being able to hit anything in DM and getting my ass kicked, I deinstalled the game and left it sitting in my Steam library. A friend of mine who has been playing this for quite some time now, helped me to get back in the game and do pretty well (I know I know, MG2 is nothing, but considering that I only won 19 matches, I think I am well on my well to learning more.
> I have no idea how this all works, but I'll try. I know the console commands and stuff but I have to test what you just wrote there haha
> Wait, you use a soundcard as well? So if I have a DAC/amp, I have to connect the soundcard to the DAC using an optical cable. And of course to benefit from surround, you sound card must support that. What soundcard do you have?
> 
> Oh and one other questions about Audio-GD FNB-11. I am seriously considering getting this. This is a DAC/amp combo, right? Connecting the speakers to the line outs in the back, do the speakers benefit from the built in amp or not? If not, what determines the quality of the speakers then? (Sorry noob questions but I am trying to find out as much as possible).


I think the only benefit a sound card for an optical connection may do is offload some of the workload from the onboard chip. I can't honestly say I notice a difference between the optical out of my Titanium HD and the optical out of my onboard sound (Realtek something or the other).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> That graph from Rival, whats bad about it?
> 
> Rival with 1.4.0.0 firmware is a beast.
> Zowie is the worst 3310 ive used, except for the Mionix Avior with the earliest firmware.
> But yeah, look at pro's, many pro's who use Zowie. Alot of pro's who you could consider using bad settings.


The Rival is a really solid mouse, but something about it doesn't work for me. It has performed consistently, but for some reason it becomes awkward for me to use after a while , and I find myself to be quite 'lazy' when using it. Almost like I can't control it like I can the smaller DA. That's personal preference/human error on my part, but it has been a great mouse thus far for me. I just haven't found a true heir to the throne my DA holds for me







.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I think the first mouse to ever break on me was a MX518. I truly miss that mouse. After 6 or 7 years the click on it went out. Thinking back on it now, I could have most likely cleaned the contact and fixed it. Because of it, I've almost snagged the G502...but just testing out in store, it seems 'off' and too heavy.
> 
> *I have a mint G400, I'll sell it for 90$. 518 shape, one of the best performing 3090 mice if not the best.*
> 
> *G502 Sensor is sublime, but it is heavy.*
> 
> Do you know what the default DPI is? Is it 1,000 like the 2013? I may test it out and adjust my in game sense (I normally play 800DPI and 1.0 in-game). Still not excited about that. They could have at least made a noticeable weight difference in it if that was the case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Glad I avoided the FinalMouse, then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Something told me to avoid it for some reason or another.
> 
> *DA 2013 should be used at 800 DPI and nothing else. Native step and best performing one. 6400/800 = 8 | 6400/1000 =6.4 and it doesn't have a good MCU.
> 
> Don't use surface calibration on any mouse.
> *
> *Yeah FinalMouse bust was hilarious. Almost as hilarious as the pros who sold out, like Adren: "I used the mouse, it performs great, I use it, you should too." really solid analysis and advice...
> 
> *I think the only benefit a sound card for an optical connection may do is offload some of the workload from the onboard chip. I can't honestly say I notice a difference between the optical out of my Titanium HD and the optical out of my onboard sound (Realtek something or the other).
> 
> *Nah the benefit is from the downsampling of multichannel windows and game sources to headphones and spatial algorithms that you can manipulate, if you need it to offload the workload from your CPU you'd be better off investing in a time machine to get out of 1990.
> *
> *No offense but Creative is absolutely atrocious driver wise and also options wise. The Asus line obliterates them from a practical use standpoint. I couldn't even capture in a .gif just how much I can change with the Xonar drivers, but you can do pretty much anything with the virtual 7.1 speaker shifter (change distance / proximity, location of each individual virtual speaker, how big the "room" is etc)
> *
> The Rival is a really solid mouse, but something about it doesn't work for me. It has performed consistently, but for some reason it becomes awkward for me to use after a while , and I find myself to be quite 'lazy' when using it. Almost like I can't control it like I can the smaller DA. That's personal preference/human error on my part, but it has been a great mouse thus far for me. I just haven't found a true heir to the throne my DA holds for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's the best thing shartseries has made and I own a rival but it's plotting is awful, and while I never really had any problems using it in game, any mouse that really forces a palm grip I use only when I'm tired as the loss of precision to me is too big to justify using them otherwise. And yeah the G502 is heavy, even with all the weights out, but it's build quality is several levels above Razer. I honestly wish Razer had good build quality otherwise I would have stuck with the deathadder. It's been a bit of a blessing in disguise though as I got much better when I started using claw/fingertip mice like the G100S, G303, Sica etc and I was already a monster at CS. Only thing I would say I can't do as well is AWPing, but I don't really awp in GO anyways. My ADR is far too high with a rifle to justify using an awp (using proper calculation that caps awp damage at 100 instead of like 450 for a HS) even with an ump I'm not fun to play against







.

And if you normally use 800 and 1 in game (assuming m_rawinput 1) just do current in game X current DPI / 800 = what to put as in game with 800 DPI

EG (0.8) (1000)/ 800 =1 | (2.3) (1000) / 800 = 2.875 so 2.875 in game @ 800 DPI to yield same exact same sensitivity.

if you use m_rawinput 0 and say 5/6 windows it gets more complex.

(windows pointer speed coefficient - 0.75) (DPI) (in-game) = total sensitivity

total sensitivity / desired dpi = in game sensitivity for desired DPI

You should use m_rawinput 1 as mouse performance is far better and packet discrepancy is far lower and it allows you do drop the WPS multiplier from calculations.


----------



## Aventadoor

I use m_rawinput 0.
Feels best to me.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> It's the best thing shartseries has made and I own a rival but it's plotting is awful, and while I never really had any problems using it in game, any mouse that really forces a palm grip I use only when I'm tired as the loss of precision to me is too big to justify using them otherwise. And yeah the G502 is heavy, even with all the weights out, but it's build quality is several levels above Razer. I honestly wish Razer had good build quality otherwise I would have stuck with the deathadder. It's been a bit of a blessing in disguise though as I got much better when I started using claw/fingertip mice like the G100S, G303, Sica etc and I was already a monster at CS. Only thing I would say I can't do as well is AWPing, but I don't really awp in GO anyways. My ADR is far too high with a rifle to justify using an awp (using proper calculation that caps awp damage at 100 instead of like 450 for a HS) even with an ump I'm not fun to play against
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> And if you normally use 800 and 1 in game (assuming m_rawinput 1) just do current in game X current DPI / 800 = what to put as in game with 800 DPI
> 
> EG (0.8) (1000)/ 800 =1 | (2.3) (1000) / 800 = 2.875 so 2.875 in game @ 800 DPI to yield same exact same sensitivity.
> 
> if you use m_rawinput 0 and say 5/6 windows it gets more complex.
> 
> (windows pointer speed coefficient - 0.75) (DPI) (in-game) = total sensitivity
> 
> total sensitivity / desired dpi = in game sensitivity for desired DPI
> 
> You should use m_rawinput 1 as mouse performance is far better and packet discrepancy is far lower and it allows you do drop the WPS multiplier from calculations.


I definitely agree with Creative drivers being atrocious. It's one of the reasons I haven't put it back in my rig. The only annoying thing now is the constant switching the DAC does to compensate for sounds coming from Hangouts or the native Netflix and Hulu plus app (thanks Win10). I killed all the Windows sounds so that helped some, but Hangouts is just brutal to me for that. I should disable it, but I use it too often.

Last night I used 400 DPI with in-game at 2, and then 1.8 or 1.9 to test a lower sense as I find myself overshooting just a tad (I do already have raw input enabled and 6/11 in Windows). I didn't notice anything crazy as far as bad input. Then again, I'm probably too busy inputting my own user-error to realize







. I'll try out 800DPI and 0.9 in-game this evening when I get home because my Chroma was delivered this morning.

And I'm kinda in the same boat as you with clawgrip mouse'. I tried out my Steelseries Kinzu V2....a known 'bad' mouse and did pretty amazing with it for a wile, but ultimately I switched back for one reason or another. I think it was due to AWPing...but I don't AWP much either. Who knows.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

If we are talking about mice now, I use my trusty G500 at work and a Razor Chroma at home.


----------



## pez

I meant to comment about my agreeance on the Rival forcing you to fully palm-grip it. That's probably the exact reason I was trying to formulate for why I didn't like it. It's going to become a work mouse for that reason, probably lol. That or the DA 2013, but I'd rather have a backup DA than a backup Rival







.

Sorry for being so off-topic







.

It's been discussed numerous times, but what do you guys use for EQ software? I'm interested in throwing some EQ at the Q701 and seeing how it goes. I tried messing with the Realtek software, but I don't think it was effecting it whatsoever. I'm sure it's due to the type of output.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

I'm looking for a decent quality USB mic for under $150.

- No LEDs, or ones that can be turned off when in use without modding the mic.
- Easily mountable to a stand.
- Blocks out some background noise.
- Works well from 2-3ft away.
- Not stuffy sounding, but still sounds relatively warm / relaxed treble. Every Youtuber I watch who changed to a higher end mic ended up sounding like they have a cold, or more accurately, like Kermit the frog. Most of them switched to Blue mics.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

I think I'm going to go with the Blue Yeti and just put a sticker over the LED. Looks like it's built well, and has many options for recording.

I was asking a friend for some suggestions and he linked me to a few youtube videos of people testing it out. Their voice sounded clear / not stuffed, and not much of a difference between some $900 mics. Also a guy who I talk to often in TS just got a blue snowball and his voice wasn't that stuffy, at least not to the extreme as I've heard previous.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I think I'm going to go with the Blue Yeti and just put a sticker over the LED. Looks like it's built well, and has many options for recording.
> 
> I was asking a friend for some suggestions and he linked me to a few youtube videos of people testing it out. Their voice sounded clear / not stuffed, and not much of a difference between some $900 mics. Also a guy who I talk to often in TS just got a blue snowball and his voice wasn't that stuffy, at least not to the extreme as I've heard previous.


I own a Blue Snowball and personally hate it. I don't know if all Blue microphones are as problematic as the Snowball I had, but it constantly gave me issues. My Audio Technica ATR2500-USB is far better than my Snowball.


----------



## pez

I've heard good things about them, and voice communication in TS, Vent, and even CS:GO have improved immensely in their quality. I've yet to make myself buy anything more expensive than the ModMic, though. But I don't anything important enough that people need to hear me that clearly







.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

The ModMic is expensive for what it is. It wouldn't look as clean, but an extension cord, zip ties, and a flexible mic would be like 1/4 the cost for the same sound quality and functionality.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> It's the best thing shartseries has made and I own a rival but it's plotting is awful, and while I never really had any problems using it in game, any mouse that really forces a palm grip I use only when I'm tired as the loss of precision to me is too big to justify using them otherwise. And yeah the G502 is heavy, even with all the weights out, but it's build quality is several levels above Razer. I honestly wish Razer had good build quality otherwise I would have stuck with the deathadder. It's been a bit of a blessing in disguise though as I got much better when I started using claw/fingertip mice like the G100S, G303, Sica etc and I was already a monster at CS. Only thing I would say I can't do as well is AWPing, but I don't really awp in GO anyways. My ADR is far too high with a rifle to justify using an awp (using proper calculation that caps awp damage at 100 instead of like 450 for a HS) even with an ump I'm not fun to play against
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> And if you normally use 800 and 1 in game (assuming m_rawinput 1) just do current in game X current DPI / 800 = what to put as in game with 800 DPI
> 
> EG (0.8) (1000)/ 800 =1 | (2.3) (1000) / 800 = 2.875 so 2.875 in game @ 800 DPI to yield same exact same sensitivity.
> 
> if you use m_rawinput 0 and say 5/6 windows it gets more complex.
> 
> (windows pointer speed coefficient - 0.75) (DPI) (in-game) = total sensitivity
> 
> total sensitivity / desired dpi = in game sensitivity for desired DPI
> 
> You should use m_rawinput 1 as mouse performance is far better and packet discrepancy is far lower and it allows you do drop the WPS multiplier from calculations.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I use m_rawinput 0.
> Feels best to me.


*m_rawinput 0 leaves you susceptible to engine-related negative acceleration and large packet discrepancy. m_rawinput 1 is a myth that's always been a myth but has been debunked. No one should use it.

http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/articles.html/_/articles/csgo-m-rawinput-vs-rinput-r149
*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I definitely agree with Creative drivers being atrocious. It's one of the reasons I haven't put it back in my rig. The only annoying thing now is the constant switching the DAC does to compensate for sounds coming from Hangouts or the native Netflix and Hulu plus app (thanks Win10). I killed all the Windows sounds so that helped some, but Hangouts is just brutal to me for that. I should disable it, but I use it too often.
> 
> Last night I used 400 DPI with in-game at 2, and then 1.8 or 1.9 to test a lower sense as I find myself overshooting just a tad (I do already have raw input enabled and 6/11 in Windows). I didn't notice anything crazy as far as bad input. Then again, I'm probably too busy inputting my own user-error to realize
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'll try out 800DPI and 0.9 in-game this evening when I get home because my Chroma was delivered this morning.
> 
> *Yeah on any modern mouse (since 2006) 400 DPI will yield bad worse performance than 800, and people tend to almost use 2.0+ with 400 DPI making it stupid, no offense.
> *
> *Raw input factors out windows pointer speed entirely. It is closest to having 6/11 pointer speed (1), but in fact is superior beyond that. If you have raw input on in a game, you can have windows pointer speed set to anything and it will have 0 impact on how the game feels.
> 
> *And I'm kinda in the same boat as you with clawgrip mouse'. I tried out my Steelseries Kinzu V2....a known 'bad' mouse and did pretty amazing with it for a wile, but ultimately I switched back for one reason or another. I think it was due to AWPing...but I don't AWP much either. Who knows.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> If we are talking about mice now, I use my trusty G500 at work and a Razor Chroma at home.


*G500 was a great mouse, love the Y axis position of the sensor. Just hate Logitech palm mice shapes in general unfortunately. Chroma 16k dpi uses the phillips twin eye, and unless they have had a monumental overhaul in their design and firmware that is sad news because their previous generations have been a travesty. Look into Z-axis issues.*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I meant to comment about my agreeance on the Rival forcing you to fully palm-grip it. That's probably the exact reason I was trying to formulate for why I didn't like it. It's going to become a work mouse for that reason, probably lol. That or the DA 2013, but I'd rather have a backup DA than a backup Rival
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Sorry for being so off-topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> It's been discussed numerous times, but what do you guys use for EQ software? I'm interested in throwing some EQ at the Q701 and seeing how it goes. I tried messing with the Realtek software, but I don't think it was effecting it whatsoever. I'm sure it's due to the type of output.


*I don't use any EQ but I believe JRiver has the best jukebox player options with parametric EQ options out the ying yang

*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I'm looking for a decent quality USB mic for under $150.
> 
> - No LEDs, or ones that can be turned off when in use without modding the mic.
> - Easily mountable to a stand.
> - Blocks out some background noise.
> - Works well from 2-3ft away.
> - Not stuffy sounding, but still sounds relatively warm / relaxed treble. Every Youtuber I watch who changed to a higher end mic ended up sounding like they have a cold, or more accurately, like Kermit the frog. Most of them switched to Blue mics.


*
No good USB mics Kotex (period).*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I think I'm going to go with the Blue Yeti and just put a sticker over the LED. Looks like it's built well, and has many options for recording.
> 
> I was asking a friend for some suggestions and he linked me to a few youtube videos of people testing it out. Their voice sounded clear / not stuffed, and not much of a difference between some $900 mics. Also a guy who I talk to often in TS just got a blue snowball and his voice wasn't that stuffy, at least not to the extreme as I've heard previous.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I own a Blue Snowball and personally hate it. I don't know if all Blue microphones are as problematic as the Snowball I had, but it constantly gave me issues. My Audio Technica ATR2500-USB is far better than my Snowball.


*XLR>TRS>soundcard in (even if on-board) with a phantom power mic will give the best audio fidelity. a Z boom stand can be had on amazon for like 30$ and is rugged, collapsible, easily removable, and totally out of your line of sight (if you can touch type) while in use.
I use an AudioTechnica MB MK4 phantom powered XLR mic and have a XLR to TRS 6.3 mm adapter to plug it into my sound card. Got the mic on sale for 59$ CDN. I think it was an Eph up on the stores end haha. But if I had to go usb id definitely go with the ATR2500 or AT2020USB deluxe. Issue with USB stuff is they are often limited to sub 24/96 quality.*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I've heard good things about them, and voice communication in TS, Vent, and even CS:GO have improved immensely in their quality. I've yet to make myself buy anything more expensive than the ModMic, though. But I don't anything important enough that people need to hear me that clearly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


*Amen, I wore a 8.99 Logitech "headset" around my neck for years so I could wear hifi heaphones and use vent / mumble. More recently upgraded to my current rig. 60$ for XLR mic 30$ for die-cast steel "Z" boom stand. Other than occasionally having to swap batteries it's incredibly practical.*


----------



## xxpenguinxx

It doesn't seem to matter what my setup is, any sound device located in the chassis picks up interference. I want a USB mic to eliminate that without costing too much.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter what my setup is, any sound device located in the chassis picks up interference. I want a USB mic to eliminate that without costing too much.


ground loop issues?


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter what my setup is, any sound device located in the chassis picks up interference. I want a USB mic to eliminate that without costing too much.


If it's a ground loop USB won't save you, just did some quick googling.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> If it's a ground loop USB won't save you, just did some quick googling.


I don't know if it is or not. I've had weird whining sound issues with all types of hardware over the years.


----------



## Aventadoor

You have to try stuff yourself unfortunately.
Try difference cable routing etc.
1 Thing that reduced noise ALOT from my PC was plugging the power cord directly into the wall outlet.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I don't know if it is or not. I've had weird whining sound issues with all types of hardware over the years.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> You have to try stuff yourself unfortunately.
> Try difference cable routing etc.
> 1 Thing that reduced noise ALOT from my PC was plugging the power cord directly into the wall outlet.


Aventadoor is right, you have to try switching things up.

Well I, in my stupid years, bought a PS audio powerfilter bar. So I am allegedly fed "cleaned" and "filtered power" and have never had any issues whilst using the bar. I have had issues using multiple power bars. Basically try getting a bigger powerbar that fits all of your components on it so there is a single ground. Doesn't have to be expensive.

But you should read about USB as from what I have read there is no way to isolate oneself from groundloop issues even when using USB. There are even USB ground loop isolators you can buy haha.


----------



## robert c james

Just wanted to say TY to OP
My wife bought me a set of JBL headphones for my B-Day. They showed me just how nasty bad my onboard sound is.
Following your recommendation I got a SondblasterZ on Black Friday ( $ 64 )
This card really does make a Huge diff on my headphones & also cleaned up my surround system
I thought I got ripped off by Sony on the surround system since I got it 2 yrs ago

I can't wait to try some of the higher end stuff you have been enjoying


----------



## axipher

Hey everyone, trying out a few options for my next stereo project using a Raspberry PI B as the source. I haven't had any luck sourcing out a HiFiBerry Digi for it so I'm looking at some alternatives for getting COAX SPDIF output from the Raspberry Pi to go to my MiniDSP. Right now I'm using my FiiO E18 to go from USB to Coax output which is kind of overkill so I'm looking for a much simpler USB based solution.


----------



## silvrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Hey everyone, trying out a few options for my next stereo project using a Raspberry PI B as the source. I haven't had any luck sourcing out a HiFiBerry Digi for it so I'm looking at some alternatives for getting COAX SPDIF output from the Raspberry Pi to go to my MiniDSP. Right now I'm using my FiiO E18 to go from USB to Coax output which is kind of overkill so I'm looking for a much simpler USB based solution.


Amazon not an option for you?
http://www.amazon.ca/HiFiBerry-Digi-Standard/dp/B018JYRBZU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1449519614&sr=8-6&keywords=hifiberry


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silvrr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Hey everyone, trying out a few options for my next stereo project using a Raspberry PI B as the source. I haven't had any luck sourcing out a HiFiBerry Digi for it so I'm looking at some alternatives for getting COAX SPDIF output from the Raspberry Pi to go to my MiniDSP. Right now I'm using my FiiO E18 to go from USB to Coax output which is kind of overkill so I'm looking for a much simpler USB based solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon not an option for you?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/HiFiBerry-Digi-Standard/dp/B018JYRBZU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1449519614&sr=8-6&keywords=hifiberry
Click to expand...

I need the non "+" model as that is for Rev 2 boards unfortunately.


----------



## benjamen50

I bought a Shiit fulla, was it worth buying when I have Beyerdynamic DT770's 80 Ohm's with Soundblaster Z?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I bought a Shiit fulla, was it worth buying when I have Beyerdynamic DT770's 80 Ohm's with Soundblaster Z?


Let your ears answer that question.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I bought a Shiit fulla, was it worth buying when I have Beyerdynamic DT770's 80 Ohm's with Soundblaster Z?


Specs are schiity but it is only 79$ and it spares you the horrendous creative drivers, also their older cards have very poor parts. They have had to step it up recently to try to compete with Asus. I'd say it was worth the money.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

I got the Audio Technica AT2020. It sounds really clear and balanced, however it's very quiet past 1ft. I have it connected to a 48V phantom power supply, and from there to my on board sound. Mic volume set to 100% and boost set to 30 (highest it will go). I tried it with my Asus Xonar DG and it's even quieter. I'm guessing I need a mic preamp or something to help boost the signal a little, any suggestions?

It works great when held about 1ft away, and I really like the way it sounds. No complaints with the mic itself.


----------



## Sonikku13

The Schiit Vali 2, does it become the go-to tube amp on the cheap?: I'm very tempted to get one, along with another Amperex 7308.

http://schiit.com/products/vali-2
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/amperex-7308-vintage-gold-pin/

My planned next two upgrades are AKG Q701 headphones, and the Schiit Vali 2. Then get two Amperex 7308 tubes every year, and I'm good to go.

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Q701Premium-Reference-Headphones-Signature/dp/B004444O46/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1449983340&sr=8-3&keywords=Q701


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

There are a bunch of different plug and play options on ebay. Such as this little guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/CM6631A-24bit-192khz-USB-to-Coaxial-Optical-fiber-SPDIF-I2S-Converter-DAC-Board-/161501788794

I am actually really curious to see how difficult it would be to make one of these things.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

No. I have not heard it, but I am wise to the ways of schiit audio. The tube is barely going to contribute anything to that amp. You are going to be WAYYYYYYYYYY better off just getting a magni and then get a pair of sennheiser HD600s.

Then down the road you can get a better amp.


----------



## Sonikku13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> No. I have not heard it, but I am wise to the ways of schiit audio. The tube is barely going to contribute anything to that amp. You are going to be WAYYYYYYYYYY better off just getting a magni and then get a pair of sennheiser HD600s.
> 
> Then down the road yo can get a better amp.


I'm set on Q701 headphones, because I love my AD900X headphones. If I had the money, I would go for Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Unfortunately, I love my mom, but my mom would disown me if I buy those HD800 headphones. So Q701 headphones are the next best thing.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> I'm set on Q701 headphones, because I love my AD900X headphones. If I had the money, I would go for Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Unfortunately, I love my mom, but my mom would disown me if I buy those HD800 headphones. So Q701 headphones are the next best thing.


I would recommend consider waiting on Massdrop's AKG K7XX headphones if you could.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I would recommend consider waiting on Massdrop's AKG K7XX headphones if you could.


Yeah I wager just not having the bumpy headband is worth the wait.


----------



## benjamen50

So after listening to the Schiit Fulla, I kinda regret buying the Sound Blaster Z now..


----------



## pez

Too late to return? You could still probably get some money back on resale







.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Yeah I wager just not having the bumpy headband is worth the wait.


The headband definitely makes a huge different from a comfort standpoint, though the K7XX (really the 65th anniversary edition of the K702) is simply all around superior to the Q701 in every way, though it IS $30-50 more depending on whether or not the Q701 is also on sale.


----------



## Sonikku13

I suppose I can stick with my AD900X headphones, if the Q701 headphones really aren't that comfortable. I like the comfort of my AD900X headphones, btw, but sometimes it rubs my ears the wrong way. I can deal with that, though. But that Schiit Vali 2 with Amperex 7308 tube is really enticing me.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> I suppose I can stick with my AD900X headphones, if the Q701 headphones really aren't that comfortable. I like the comfort of my AD900X headphones, btw, but sometimes it rubs my ears the wrong way. I can deal with that, though. But that Schiit Vali 2 with Amperex 7308 tube is really enticing me.


The Q701 is generally viewed as a sidegrade to the AD900X opposed to an upgrade. Both are bass light and excel with orchestral music, both are known for their large sound stage. I'm sure the Q701 is more detailed though, based on my K7xx being much more detailed than my A900X and even more than my DT 880 Pro.


----------



## pez

Yeah, I'm a firm believer of the Q701. I still have yet to try it with something like BC2, so I may hold off on making it my #1 for every game. Hearing those tanks through the HD650 was really something special before.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Yeah I wager just not having the bumpy headband is worth the wait.


Yeah only thing I couldn't stand about the headphone. My anthropometry just absolutely hated them. I would get a lot of pain after wearing them for a few hours. No other headphone has done this.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> So after listening to the Schiit Fulla, I kinda regret buying the Sound Blaster Z now..


That's what you get for buying Creative, sorry to say. Hopefully you can return or sell second hand for a decent amount.


----------



## D3XXX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sonikku13*
> 
> I'm set on Q701 headphones, because I love my AD900X headphones. If I had the money, I would go for Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Unfortunately, I love my mom, but my mom would disown me if I buy those HD800 headphones. So Q701 headphones are the next best thing.


unless your mom is a hi-fi fanatic maybe just not tell her how much they cost??? I'm not saying it's good to lie to ones mother but if you could afford an HD 800 I don't see why you should be having to settle for a Q701. The soundstage of the K70X is massive but to the point it's ludicrous. It is the next best thing in that domain to the HD 800 but it's like saying I would buy a Panani Zonda R but my mom would be upset so I'll settle for a stock current year mustang.


----------



## rathborne

Hi guys,

Anyone have ideas for a well-priced set of noise-cancelling headphones or IEMs I can get for work?

Seeing as they're for work I'd prefer not to spend a lot on them as I have better things to buy for home







.

Cheapest I've seen so far are the Audio-Technica ATH-ANC33iS as a starting point but more than happy to keep options open







.

Thanks!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Anyone have ideas for a well-priced set of noise-cancelling headphones or IEMs I can get for work?
> 
> Seeing as they're for work I'd prefer not to spend a lot on them as I have better things to buy for home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Cheapest I've seen so far are the Audio-Technica ATH-ANC33iS as a starting point but more than happy to keep options open
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Thanks!


- Budget?
- Music preference?
- Sound preference?
- Active or passive noise cancelling?


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> - Budget?
> - Music preference?
> - Sound preference?
> - Active or passive noise cancelling?


- Budget? *Preferably under $250AUD*
- Music preference? *Like electronic, house, trance, progressive metal, orchestral*
- Sound preference? *I really, really like the Sennheiser HD-650s that I use at home, they seem very nicely balanced to me even if the bass doesn't threaten to cave my head in







. I've accepted the Apple Earpods at work for a few years now but need noise cancelling in the new office.*
- Active or passive noise cancelling? *If a passive noise cancelling headphone can block the office Sonos Play:3 it'll do!*

Sorry, I really should have listed these points earlier but I kinda rushed that question through







.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> - Budget? *Preferably under $250AUD*
> - Music preference? *Like electronic, house, trance, progressive metal, orchestral*
> - Sound preference? *I really, really like the Sennheiser HD-650s that I use at home, they seem very nicely balanced to me even if the bass doesn't threaten to cave my head in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I've accepted the Apple Earpods at work for a few years now but need noise cancelling in the new office.*
> - Active or passive noise cancelling? *If a passive noise cancelling headphone can block the office Sonos Play:3 it'll do!*
> 
> Sorry, I really should have listed these points earlier but I kinda rushed that question through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Can you link where you usually buy from online so we can get a good idea of what prices look like in Aussieland? Thanks!


----------



## rathborne

Sure!

Bought my FiiO E10K from these guys and _almost_ bought Sennheiser HD-600s there: http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/category/headphones/


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Sure!
> 
> Bought my FiiO E10K from these guys and _almost_ bought Sennheiser HD-600s there: http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/category/headphones/


If you are willing to stretch your budget a bit, the Ultrasone Pro 900 can be had for 299, though it kinda sucks for orchestral music IMO. The M50x are OK for passive sound isolation. They aren't the greatest in their price range normally, but they are solid cans at their price range. As for IEM's, I would contact Totally Dubbed and see what he would suggest. I am actually surprised the Ultrasone Pro 900 are that cheap in your country, way cheaper than the Pro 750.


----------



## rathborne

Excellent, thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out







! +rep


----------



## pez

My brother really enjoys his Ultrasone's at work. I think he's using the 750s, but he really likes them.


----------



## rathborne

Has he commented on the noise isolation part of the Ultrasone headphones? I'm keen for something at work that blocks noise so I don't have to have the Earpods screaming in my ears to give my music listening priority







.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Has he commented on the noise isolation part of the Ultrasone headphones? I'm keen for something at work that blocks noise so I don't have to have the Earpods screaming in my ears to give my music listening priority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


The Ultrasone Pro 900 has great isolation. Not sure about the 750 as I haven't heard it.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Has he commented on the noise isolation part of the Ultrasone headphones? I'm keen for something at work that blocks noise so I don't have to have the Earpods screaming in my ears to give my music listening priority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sorry for my delay here. But he uses them and works in a pretty open/office environment. I'll ask him right now and quote his responses once he comes on







.

EDIT:

Apologies. He has the 780 model, but here is what he said:
Quote:


> I think I have the 780s
> But the isolation is beautiful


Quote:


> But now I can't remember which I have. Whichever I have the isolation is Gucci
> I think I have the 780. Looking at the prices I don't think j paid close to $400 for them. More like $$250


Quote:


> Yup. 780s. Forgot I had this


That's his work setup







.


----------



## rathborne

Thanks! Nice little work setup there







!

I already got shaking heads and weird looks when my FiiO E10K arrived at the office and then the HD-650s were jokingly (...well, part jokingly) banned after a single low volume test when they arrived because of the lack of noise isolation







. Not sure how they'd respond to me having a small Schiit stack on the desk







!

I am seriously considering another E10K for work as the iMac buzzing and noise is driving me nuts since moving to an external DAC/amp at home.

(Edit: i said "schiit stack" because with the iMac I could get away with it aesthetically with the all aluminium style







)


----------



## pez

Lol where do you work? And I agree the Schiit stack would look rather nice and compliment it. Also, LOL at you trying to pass of the HD650 at work







. I used them hours on end, but yeah they leak sound like crazy. The Q701 are even worse lol.


----------



## rathborne

Its pretty much a single room office using all-Apple hardware so if someone's Macbook Pro fan ramps up to full speed we can hear it







. The sound test was pretty funny. Had Tool's The Grudge playing on lower volume while working and then i sensed something was wrong. So i paused the track, looked up and the others were glaring at me like i was mad. "What?". They thought i had the headphones at ear-shattering volumes for them to hear it that end of the office so had to explain the open-back design







. Now i know for sure they leak sound







.

They're super handy for playing at home LANs so I can keep an ear out for the players around me without having to take the headphones off frequently







.

I do need to get my Valhalla back from repairs as i miss it for music listening sessions... even if it does add massive heat to an already warm summer







.


----------



## Fiercy

I have a question as far as I understand using some kind of visualization is better for headphones when gaming then just doing plain stereo. So i recently got the modi/magni 2 stack which only gives me stereo is it worth it go up to modi uber to get the optical then get cheap asus xonar card to stream Dolby headphone over to the dac for a lot more immersive sound?


----------



## phillyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fiercy*
> 
> I have a question as far as I understand using some kind of visualization is better for headphones when gaming then just doing plain stereo. So i recently got the modi/magni 2 stack which only gives me stereo is it worth it go up to modi uber to get the optical then get cheap asus xonar card to stream Dolby headphone over to the dac for a lot more immersive sound?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fiercy*
> 
> I have a question as far as I understand using some kind of visualization is better for headphones when gaming then just doing plain stereo. So i recently got the modi/magni 2 stack which only gives me stereo is it worth it go up to modi uber to get the optical then get cheap asus xonar card to stream Dolby headphone over to the dac for a lot more immersive sound?


No. Music is mixed in stereo. Games and movies might be mixed in surround but its best to use the stereo tracks and let the two drivers (one in each headphone) play into each of your 2 ears. No amount of current surround simulation will improve over good stereo mixing.


----------



## Fiercy

Well I game 75% of the time so I wanted to use that for games while keeping the usb connection for stereo when I see want to listen to music.


----------



## Mad Pistol

I believe I have found the Holy Grail of audio processors (from a price/performance perspective). What's amazing is that I purchased it on a whim because my new SLI configuration lead to a maddening hiss coming through my sound while playing games. I was convinced that I needed a new sound card, but with so many negative reviews of current sound cards and their corresponding Windows 10 drivers, I really did not want to buy another internal sound card that would last 2 years before I wanted to throw it against a wall.

The goal was to find something that is versatile; I wanted a sound device that could play games as well as be an audiophile-grade sound processor without breaking the bank. I think I found the best "compromise" currently on the market.

The Sound Blaster E5.



To put it simply, this thing is basically a swiss army knife of audio. It can be a dedicated sound device or a headphone DAC/AMP. It plays game audio very well (admittedly in stereo or simulated surround only), but it can also power high-powered headphones as well. I'm serious when I say that my Sennheiser HD 598s never sounded this good either onboard audio or my phone. The clarity and separation of sounds is really freakin good, and the sound stage is MASSIVE!!! I don't feel the need to use the SBX audio enhancements on this device because the stock sound is already extremely clear, clean, and satisfyingly smooth.

The device would be amazing on its own, but then it's got this little trick of also being a portable headphone DAC/AMP as well. Honestly, this is probably one of the best audio devices for music/stereo gaming south of an X7. Creative needs to start pushing these devices way more than their dedicated sound cards. This is the future, and it sounds amazing!









Oh, and the Creative drivers are optional. This thing can function just fine on its own without Creative's drivers. The drivers simply allow you to customize the sounds and "features" of the device. This is proof-positive of why Creative needs to get out of the dedicated sound card business and begin focusing completely on multi-function devices like the E5 and X7.


----------



## pez

Nice little write up there. There was a bit of buzz in here a bit ago when it was first coming out, but I'm guessing it's a hard market to hit. Audiophiles are sometimes gamers, but gamers are not usually audiophiles, so it's somewhat of a niche market.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Nice little write up there. There was a bit of buzz in here a bit ago when it was first coming out, but I'm guessing it's a hard market to hit. Audiophiles are sometimes gamers, but gamers are not usually audiophiles, so it's somewhat of a niche market.


It's really cool. I have been listening to a lot of music that I haven't listened to in a long time and finding myself falling in love with listening to music all over again. When I first got the HD 598, I was a little underwhelmed by them. They were clean, but they didn't have any sort of kick or punch. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was because I didn't have the proper hardware pushing it. Now that I have used the Sound Blaster E5, my Sennheiser HD 598's sound incredible. The detail is there like I have never heard it before. Everything is just so separated and has substance. It sorta makes me wonder what it would be like to get an even better DAC/AMP or better set of headphones.

But yea, my eyes (and ears) are open now, and it's really cool!


----------



## umeng2002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> It's really cool. I have been listening to a lot of music that I haven't listened to in a long time and finding myself falling in love with listening to music all over again. When I first got the HD 598, I was a little underwhelmed by them. They were clean, but they didn't have any sort of kick or punch. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was because I didn't have the proper hardware pushing it. Now that I have used the Sound Blaster E5, my Sennheiser HD 598's sound incredible. The detail is there like I have never heard it before. Everything is just so separated and has substance. It sorta makes me wonder what it would be like to get an even better DAC/AMP or better set of headphones.
> 
> But yea, my eyes (and ears) are open now, and it's really cool!


Eh... Well I had the HD 595's and they never really blew me away even with my little Dot MK V amp and little Dot DAC I.

My HD 600's on the same setup made me tear up with audio pleasure.

Anyone who's had the 595's and 598's care to tell if there is a good difference?


----------



## Nephalem

So, I'm looking to try and get away from double amping my speakers, as it stands I run optical out of my motherboard to a D1, then onto my Speaker's amp. Now since changing motherboards I have noticed that the Soundblaster Recon3Di onboard is on par if not ever so slightly better than the D1 (to my ears and tastes). What I'm after is something I can run optical to, and then have 3 RCA (Left, Right and Sub) and a headphone jack, 1/4" or 3.5mm I don't mind. I'm having trouble finding something that has the 3 RCA out, 2 seems to be no issue and is actually on the D1. Please help, any suggestion are greatly appreciated. In the mean time I shall continue my search.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> It's really cool. I have been listening to a lot of music that I haven't listened to in a long time and finding myself falling in love with listening to music all over again. When I first got the HD 598, I was a little underwhelmed by them. They were clean, but they didn't have any sort of kick or punch. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was because I didn't have the proper hardware pushing it. Now that I have used the Sound Blaster E5, my Sennheiser HD 598's sound incredible. The detail is there like I have never heard it before. Everything is just so separated and has substance. It sorta makes me wonder what it would be like to get an even better DAC/AMP or better set of headphones.
> 
> But yea, my eyes (and ears) are open now, and it's really cool!


Haha that's how it starts. You'd probably get more of a difference with better headphones in this case (not that yours are bad). My suggestion is to get a good feel for your headphones and learn what it is that you'd improve on them, and then go searching for that.


----------



## mAs81

Hey guys,
even tho I'm liking the sound of my headphones with my E10K,I'd like to have better sound when hearing music without them too..

Before going on,let me just say that I'm a total audio n00b so I don't know if this will make any sense,sooo....yeah...









Anyway,my question is this;
Will I have better sound if I buy this to connect my speakers to,and how exactly should I do that..?

Should I use the adapter thingy included with my speakers,should I just use the audio in jack , and will doing this benefit my sound in the end,without having to buy new speakers??

Thanks in advance,sorry if this is stupid


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mAs81*
> 
> Hey guys,
> even tho I'm liking the sound of my headphones with my E10K,I'd like to have better sound when hearing music without them too..
> 
> Before going on,let me just say that I'm a total audio n00b so I don't know if this will make any sense,sooo....yeah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,my question is this;
> Will I have better sound if I buy this to connect my speakers to,and how exactly should I do that..?
> 
> Should I use the adapter thingy included with my speakers,should I just use the audio in jack , and will doing this benefit my sound in the end,without having to buy new speakers??
> 
> Thanks in advance,sorry if this is stupid


I don't see the purpose of buying a 2nd amp, especially one from Scythe TBH. If you are not wanting to carry around a portable amp, I suggest just getting a cheap sound card with a built in amp like the Asus Xonar DG or DGX.


----------



## Dhoulmagus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mAs81*
> 
> Hey guys,
> even tho I'm liking the sound of my headphones with my E10K,I'd like to have better sound when hearing music without them too..
> 
> Before going on,let me just say that I'm a total audio n00b so I don't know if this will make any sense,sooo....yeah...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,my question is this;
> Will I have better sound if I buy this to connect my speakers to,and how exactly should I do that..?
> 
> Should I use the adapter thingy included with my speakers,should I just use the audio in jack , and will doing this benefit my sound in the end,without having to buy new speakers??
> 
> Thanks in advance,sorry if this is stupid


Banned because It looks to me like this scythe unit only accepts analog RCA and a 3.5mm input jack, so the only way to hook it up via PC would be through your audio line out jack using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable or 3.5mm to RCA analog. If you're planning on putting this in your case you're probably going to have to pass a wire from the outside back in... I see it has a USB header but it looks like that's just for power and the usb pass through port on the front.

Are you using integrated audio? I really doubt these speakers need additional amplification but I can't find the physical specs on the t40 drivers. They *May* sound a little better (or may sound worse) with the amp using lower windows volume settings, that Yamaha YDA138 is an ok 10W (x2 channel) signal amplifier and your speakers will already have an amp integrated. I would think they would sound a bit better with a higher quality input signal rather than more amplification, maybe a dedicated sound card instead.

Really if those speakers are lacking to you, you may need to upgrade.

I answered in the ban thread but you edited it, lol.


----------



## mAs81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OC'ing Noob*
> 
> I don't see the purpose of buying a 2nd amp, especially one from Scythe TBH. If you are not wanting to carry around a portable amp, I suggest just getting a cheap sound card with a built in amp like the Asus Xonar DG or DGX.


I see your point and seeing that my speakers already have an amp in them,I thought that I would end up confusing myself..But if I had bought that,I'd not still use the E10K..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serious_Don*
> 
> Banned because It looks to me like this scythe unit only accepts analog RCA and a 3.5mm input jack, so the only way to hook it up via PC would be through your audio line out jack using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable or 3.5mm to RCA analog. If you're planning on putting this in your case you're probably going to have to pass a wire from the outside back in... I see it has a USB header but it looks like that's just for power and the usb pass through port on the front.
> 
> Are you using integrated audio? I really doubt these speakers need additional amplification but I can't find the physical specs on the t40 drivers. They *May* sound a little better (or may sound worse) with the amp using lower windows volume settings, that Yamaha YDA138 is an ok 10W (x2 channel) signal amplifier and your speakers will already have an amp integrated. I would think they would sound a bit better with a higher quality input signal rather than more amplification, maybe a dedicated sound card instead.
> 
> Really if those speakers are lacking to you, you may need to upgrade.
> 
> I answered in the ban thread but you edited it, lol.


Hmm..I kinda thought that it was pointless , but thanks for explaining it to me









The way my current setup is ;
PC-USB-E10K-speakers with the audio jack..Hope that makes sense..


----------



## NFL

Can someone recommend a decent external sound card? Looking for something to hold me over while I save up for Pascal and a monitor upgrade. For the time being I plan on using it with a pair of HyperX Clouds and maybe a pair of Mackie CR3s, but I want it to be able to handle a pair of DT990's as well (just in case I get slightly stupid).


----------



## Dhoulmagus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mAs81*
> 
> I see your point and seeing that my speakers already have an amp in them,I thought that I would end up confusing myself..But if I had bought that,I'd not still use the E10K..
> Hmm..I kinda thought that it was pointless , but thanks for explaining it to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way my current setup is ;
> PC-USB-E10K-speakers with the audio jack..Hope that makes sense..


Speakers hooked up to the headphone DAC? I bet that sounds better than the integrated audio output. It sounds to me like you're spoiled by the quality of a nice set of headphones and the speakers aren't matching up to them







, I have a theater system I paid around $500 for on this PC and it disgusts me how far away it is from my headphones, chances are you're getting the best quality you're going to get out of a small 2.1 set of creative speakers. Time to start saving some MONEY for a speaker upgrade


----------



## Dhoulmagus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFL*
> 
> Can someone recommend a decent external sound card? Looking for something to hold me over while I save up for Pascal and a monitor upgrade. For the time being I plan on using it with a pair of HyperX Clouds and maybe a pair of Mackie CR3s, but I want it to be able to handle a pair of DT990's as well (just in case I get slightly stupid).


Depends on your budget, for the DT990s you can go as high as a schiit Magni + Modi ($200) which is just about the most ridiculously amazing combo I've ever experienced for the price. And honestly after you upgrade, you won't need to change this setup for your headphones again. I don't really see the hyperX having too much of a benefit over integrated, perhaps a used sound blaster X-fi with PAX drivers for a boost in quality with a bit more of a synthetic bass punch.

For your studio monitors though, I would probably just use the 3.5mm to RCA audio splitter cable that the speakers should come with to your current audio out setup until you can afford a proper sound card. Are these monitors going into a mixer or straight to the PC?


----------



## mAs81

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serious_Don*
> 
> Speakers hooked up to the headphone DAC? I bet that sounds better than the integrated audio output. It sounds to me like you're spoiled by the quality of a nice set of headphones and the speakers aren't matching up to them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I have a theater system I paid around $500 for on this PC and it disgusts me how far away it is from my headphones, chances are you're getting the best quality you're going to get out of a small 2.1 set of creative speakers. Time to start saving some MONEY for a speaker upgrade


It's a DAC/AMP and yeah,they do sound better albeit just a little(to my ears at least)..
Yeah,that's how it is,I'm guessing I'll have to get an audio card or something if I want better audio in games/music on my system..
Other than that when I'll fix my living room I'll have to spend some serious money for audio,but that's a whole other ball game









Thanks for the replies guys,appreciate it !!


----------



## NFL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serious_Don*
> 
> Depends on your budget, for the DT990s you can go as high as a schiit Magni + Modi ($200) which is just about the most ridiculously amazing combo I've ever experienced for the price. And honestly after you upgrade, you won't need to change this setup for your headphones again. I don't really see the hyperX having too much of a benefit over integrated, perhaps a used sound blaster X-fi with PAX drivers for a boost in quality with a bit more of a synthetic bass punch.
> 
> For your studio monitors though, I would probably just use the 3.5mm to RCA audio splitter cable that the speakers should come with to your current audio out setup until you can afford a proper sound card. Are these monitors going into a mixer or straight to the PC?


Once I get my upgrades, I'm picking up a Modi/Magni combo but for now I need something under $100. As for the monitors, straight into the sound card. Getting them used off a friend, don't think he has the splitter. Is the sound blaster Omni any good? Would it be able to drive a 250ohm DT990?


----------



## Dhoulmagus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFL*
> 
> Once I get my upgrades, I'm picking up a Modi/Magni combo but for now I need something under $100. As for the monitors, straight into the sound card. Getting them used off a friend, don't think he has the splitter. Is the sound blaster Omni any good? Would it be able to drive a 250ohm DT990?


Sound Blaster Omni looks pretty solid, I can't find the hardware but based on the specification "600 ohm amp" I get the feeling it uses the same amp from the SBZ cards or similar, I found a few reviews saying it drives Sennheiser 600 series quite well which should take a bit more power than DT990s to drive. I'm sure it will be way more than adequate for the Hyper X Clouds though, so really until you get the DT990s you probably won't need to upgrade to a better dac/amp setup.


----------



## pez

HyperX Cloud really doesn't need much to drive at all. Works fine out of console controllers. It's still a solid headset regardless, but I wouldn't invest too much into 'driving' them unless you want surround features, or just want something nice if you plan to upgrade in the near future.


----------



## rathborne

Seems like there's a sale on Sennheiser Momentums at Harvey Norman: http://www.harveynorman.com.au/sennheiser-momentum-black-over-ear-headphones.html

Anyone used the original version of the Momentum over ears? Interested to see how noise isolation is with them. Ideally I'd like to passively reduce ambient sound so I don't have to push my headphones very hard. Thanks







!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Seems like there's a sale on Sennheiser Momentums at Harvey Norman: http://www.harveynorman.com.au/sennheiser-momentum-black-over-ear-headphones.html
> 
> Anyone used the original version of the Momentum over ears? Interested to see how noise isolation is with them. Ideally I'd like to passively reduce ambient sound so I don't have to push my headphones very hard. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


I have the original Momentum (same color on sale you linked there - and they look good!) and they do a good job of isolation once music starts playing.

I tend to not hear what people are talking about around me once I start getting into the music!









By thew way I hope you have smallish ears because I do and they are comfy, but if you have big ears then they won't be comfortable.


----------



## rathborne

Got a pair of Momentum v1 headphones second-hand for a great price. Judging by the size I think they're the on-ear variant and I think I'm hearing the boosted mid-bass I've seen associated with the on-ear variant. I don't mind though as they're isolating well and sound good for the stuff I listen to at work







. I have the HD650s at home if I want something for more critical listening sessions







. And the box they came in... very nice. Sennheiser is the Apple of the audio world in regards to packing their products in a way that makes them feel like a luxury item.


----------



## pez

Actually Beats kinda are since Apple owns them now







. Jk. I loved the HD650 packaging, even.

But seriously, Beats do have some killer packaging and unboxing pizzazz, too.


----------



## Rayce185

A friend owns the KRK Rokit 5 Generation 2 and I've absolutely fallen in love with them and was considering getting myself a set of Gen3's.

But for less than 100€ more the Rokit 6 would be an option too. Since I sit less than a meter away from the speakers at the desk, though, would it even make sense to invest the surplus?


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayce185*
> 
> A friend owns the KRK Rokit 5 Generation 2 and I've absolutely fallen in love with them and was considering getting myself a set of Gen3's.
> 
> But for less than 100€ more the Rokit 6 would be an option too. Since I sit less than a meter away from the speakers at the desk, though, would it even make sense to invest the surplus?


Only series from KRK i would listen to is the VXT series tbh.
But to awnser your question, a bigger woofer with studio monitors doesnt mean you have to sit back more.
Its not to enhance volume (wich it useally does to) but more to enhance bass regions/frequency responce.
So on normal volume level you can sit just as close to a 6inch woofer as a 5inch woofer.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D3XXX*
> 
> If it's a ground loop USB won't save you, just did some quick googling.


it would, use the internal header and isolate it from the chassis.


----------



## Ragsters

Is there a comparable external sound solution to my Soundblaster z sound card? I am downsizing and need to have something external that can drive my Sennheiser 598 headphones.


----------



## PCGamer4Ever

I am really surprised when I read the OP that he never added the Sennheiser HD518. These have a similar sound signature to the 598 and 558 with a little more bass than the others. They are a great value of a gaming headphone


----------



## bumblebee1980

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCGamer4Ever*
> 
> I am really surprised when I read the OP that he never added the Sennheiser HD518. These have a similar sound signature to the 598 and 558 with a little more bass than the others. They are a great value of a gaming headphone


look at the edit date. OP hasn't been around in ages. some members on OCN figured out through Location and Facebook that Simca wasn't a Female at all so he ditched his accounts.

I can't believe that was way back in early 2014. time really does fly!

I like the HD558 more because it's the closest that sounds like the HD600. the suede on the 518 makes me sweat more and the headband on the 598 is a bit floaty.


----------



## Rayce185

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Only series from KRK i would listen to is the VXT series tbh.
> But to awnser your question, a bigger woofer with studio monitors doesnt mean you have to sit back more.
> Its not to enhance volume (wich it useally does to) but more to enhance bass regions/frequency responce.
> So on normal volume level you can sit just as close to a 6inch woofer as a 5inch woofer.


Thanks for the heads up! Why would you only take the VXT's? They're much pricier...

I've made a thread asking for recommendations if anyone would like to chime in









http://www.overclock.net/t/1594455/advice-on-buying-active-monitors-for-pc/0_100


----------



## Alvarado

So I'm looking into getting some new headphones but I'm just wondering if the stuff in the OP still decent-ish?

Edit: I ask because the stuff in the OP is from two years ago and their might be better stuff now? Maybe?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alvarado*
> 
> So I'm looking into getting some new headphones but I'm just wondering if the stuff in the OP still decent-ish?
> 
> Edit: I ask because the stuff in the OP is from two years ago and their might be better stuff now? Maybe?


The headphones are good but the AKG Q701 should be replaced with the K7xx, and the HE-500 is sadly discontinued and has an inferior successor in the HE-400i (although it's still very good).


----------



## Alvarado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> The headphones are good but the AKG Q701 should be replaced with the K7xx, and the HE-500 is sadly discontinued and has an inferior successor in the HE-400i (although it's still very good).


Alright, I should be fine then cause I was looking at the AD700X or the HD 558. Thanks for the info Bored.


----------



## PCGamer4Ever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alvarado*
> 
> Alright, I should be fine then cause I was looking at the AD700X or the HD 558. Thanks for the info Bored.


On the Sennheiser headphones do not jump on a specific 500 series until you know what your looking for.

HD518, slight bass boost
HD558, slight high end boost
HD598, flatest response

In general the three headphones sound very similar with the exceptions noted. I have used all three and found the 518 is the best choice for me as I like that slight boost of the base tones. The extra cost you pay is toward various build and comfort features. I found the 518 however to be more than comfortable enough for long gaming and music sessions.

The AD700X by comparision is weaker bass wise than all of the Sennheiser options but a bit brighter in the high ends.


----------



## Steeps5

Owner of a Sennheiser PC 360 plus an ASUS Xonar DGX. Absolutely awesome audio for games! I personally don't listen to music while at my computer so gaming audio is more important to me.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCGamer4Ever*
> 
> On the Sennheiser headphones do not jump on a specific 500 series until you know what your looking for.
> 
> HD518, slight bass boost
> HD558, slight high end boost
> HD598, flatest response
> 
> In general the three headphones sound very similar with the exceptions noted. I have used all three and found the 518 is the best choice for me as I like that slight boost of the base tones. The extra cost you pay is toward various build and comfort features. I found the 518 however to be more than comfortable enough for long gaming and music sessions.
> 
> The AD700X by comparision is *weaker bass* wise than all of the Sennheiser options but a bit brighter in the high ends.


That's being generous... AD700X's interpretation of bass is a lowish note to let you know "Hey, there was supposed to be bass here."


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCGamer4Ever*
> 
> On the Sennheiser headphones do not jump on a specific 500 series until you know what your looking for.
> 
> HD518, slight bass boost
> HD558, slight high end boost
> HD598, flatest response
> 
> In general the three headphones sound very similar with the exceptions noted. I have used all three and found the 518 is the best choice for me as I like that slight boost of the base tones. The extra cost you pay is toward various build and comfort features. I found the 518 however to be more than comfortable enough for long gaming and music sessions.
> 
> The AD700X by comparision is weaker bass wise than all of the Sennheiser options but a bit brighter in the high ends.


^Agreed on this, I was able to listen to all three before finally settling on the HD518 as well (many moons ago) because of the slight boost to the bass! People who say the 518 isn't comfortable compared to the other 2 don't realize that you can wear the 518 for hours on end without issues (I've worn them for 4+ hours without issues)!

As for the AD700x... bass what's that?


----------



## Hawawaa

Gettings some Audioengine A5+ Speakers and S8 subwoofer next week! WOOT!


----------



## OC'ing Noob

The A5+ are really fun powered 2.0 speakers, but IMO the SM8 is a bit overpriced.


----------



## Hawawaa

I'm getting 20% off for all of it. There is an audio convention going down in Chicago this weekend Axpona (audio expo north america) and anyone who buys audioengine gets 20% off. Two other companies that are there are doing sales too but can't remember who.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawawaa*
> 
> I'm getting 20% off for all of it. There is an audio convention going down in Chicago this weekend Axpona (audio expo north america) and anyone who buys audioengine gets 20% off. Two other companies that are there are doing sales too but can't remember who.


Nice! Enjoy them!


----------



## xTesla1856

Getting a Schiit Magni2Uber/Modi2Uber stack next week with some Fostex T50RP Mk.3s and Focal Alpha 65's. Should be e fun audio-week


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTesla1856*
> 
> Getting a Schiit Magni2Uber/Modi2Uber stack next week with some Fostex T50RP Mk.3s and Focal Alpha 65's. Should be e fun audio-week


There are a ton of great mods available for T50RP.


----------



## lurker2501

What would be a good budget upgrade from a Xonar DG/Dayton speakers? I want DAC and speaker recommendations that would make the sound better on a budget.


----------



## LazarusIV

Alright audio people, question for you all. I just received my Polk T15 bookshelf speakers from Amazon and my Asus Xonar U7 is not powerful enough to drive them. I kind of expected this but wanted to hold off on ordering an amp just in case. Now my question is this: If I order a Schiit stack (Modi 2 and Magni 2) will that Magni 2 amp be enough to drive my speakers? I'm thinking it won't have enough power... I'd like to have a Schiit stack but something other than the Magni and Modi pairing might be too expensive for me. What would you guys recommend? Thanks in advance!


----------



## silvrr

You need a speaker amplifier. The Magni is designed to power headphones which require milliwatts of power. You have passive speakers which require watts of power to drive. Also the impedance of speakers is much lower than most speakers operate and if you do get some volume out of it, you are likely to overheat it rather soon.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silvrr*
> 
> You need a speaker amplifier. The Magni is designed to power headphones which require milliwatts of power. You have passive speakers which require watts of power to drive. Also the impedance of speakers is much lower than most speakers operate and if you do get some volume out of it, you are likely to overheat it rather soon.


I appreciate your comments but I see no suggestions as to a solution. I have been eyeing this Lepai, will it be good for these speakers?


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> I appreciate your comments but I see no suggestions as to a solution. I have been eyeing this Lepai, will it be good for these speakers?


This should do the job, small form factor. I have one myself using it on Micca speakers.

SMSL Q5 Pro


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> This should do the job, small form factor. I have one myself using it on Micca speakers.
> 
> SMSL Q5 Pro


That is significantly more expensive than the Lepai, will it be that much better?

Edit: I ordered the Lepai. It's inexpensive enough that it's worth a shot, if I don't like it I'll just return it







Thanks for the input!


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> That is significantly more expensive than the Lepai, will it be that much better?
> 
> Edit: I ordered the Lepai. It's inexpensive enough that it's worth a shot, if I don't like it I'll just return it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input!


Hopefully that works for you, looked at the specs and it doesn't have a DAC.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Hopefully that works for you, looked at the specs and it doesn't have a DAC.


Check out my specs, I've got an Asus Xonar U7 USB DAC


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Check out my specs, I've got an Asus Xonar U7 USB DAC


Yep, you should get decent sound with the lepai combined with that DAC.


----------



## boredgunner

The Yamaha RX-V579 A/V receiver (supports up to 7.2 channel) is down to $300 again on Newegg for those who are interested in a surround setup. It was $500 during its lifespan, but has since been replaced by the RX-V581. I couldn't resist this deal a few weeks ago, even though it's more than I'll need for a long time.


----------



## rathborne

I've always liked the Yamaha AV receivers







. My old RX-473 is still driving my Paradigm Monitor 7.6s fine. I imagine the RX-579 should serve you well until you start getting into much more expensive speakers







.


----------



## SinX7

Hello, I am looking for a quality noise-cancelling headphone for school. Mainly listening to music (Hip-Hop, Rap, RnB), podcast, and some videos on the laptop.

What do you guys recommend that won't break the bank? Prefer it to be under $200ish.

Thanks!


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SinX7*
> 
> Hello, I am looking for a quality noise-cancelling headphone for school. Mainly listening to music (Hip-Hop, Rap, RnB), podcast, and some videos on the laptop.
> 
> What do you guys recommend that won't break the bank? Prefer it to be under $200ish.
> 
> Thanks!


Would you be open to just closed-back headphones? I.e. how necessary is noise-cancelling? I don't know many active noise-cancelling headphones that well.


----------



## SinX7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Would you be open to just closed-back headphones? I.e. how necessary is noise-cancelling? I don't know many active noise-cancelling headphones that well.


I can do with both, but prefer to not have a lot of sound bleed if its a open headphone, since I will be using it around campus too.

I never had one before, but try it on those Beats Headphones seems like a nice range. But of course I don't want Beats or Over priced Bose.


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SinX7*
> 
> I can do with both, but prefer to not have a lot of sound bleed if its a open headphone, since I will be using it around campus too.
> 
> I never had one before, but try it on those Beats Headphones seems like a nice range. But of course I don't want Beats or Over priced Bose.


Do they have to fold down or be easy to move? I'm very happy with my Sennheiser Momentum Over-Ear v1s I use at work. While they are not active noise-cancelling it only needs a small amount of volume to eliminate most of the office noise and block out the Sonoslay3 that constantly streams radio. I found mine used for $100AUD on a local forum.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Do they have to fold down or be easy to move? I'm very happy with my Sennheiser Momentum Over-Ear v1s I use at work. While they are not active noise-cancelling it only needs a small amount of volume to eliminate most of the office noise and block out the Sonoslay3 that constantly streams radio. I found mine used for $100AUD on a local forum.


Yeah, I liked the Momentums when I heard them as well. I'd say if you can find them for a decent deal ($150 or less) then they would be a good find. The ATH-M50 is always a go-to recommendation for me. Great music listening can, decent-to-good comfort and built like a tank.


----------



## benjamen50

I'm thinking about buying an external AMP and DAC combo. Which one should I get for headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm. Was thinking like Schiit Modi and Magni if that's the right combo. I'm using a Schiit Fulla which is a USB DAC and AMP.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I'm thinking about buying an external AMP and DAC combo. Which one should I get for headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm. Was thinking like Schiit Modi and Magni if that's the right combo. I'm using a Schiit Fulla which is a USB DAC and AMP.


other "budget" choices:

https://www.amazon.com/Musical-Fidelity-V90-HPA-Headphone-Amp/dp/B00F4MX98Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1473240870&sr=8-1&keywords=v90-hpa
Should be able to find it for 160$

https://www.amazon.com/JDSLABS-Objective2-Combo-Headphone-NwAvGuy/dp/B00EJ9405O/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1473240994&sr=1-1&keywords=O2+dac
Should be able to find that for 240$

Or
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Head-Box-S-Black/dp/B006NY1GAU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473241137&sr=1-1&keywords=project+headbox
+
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Audio-converter-input-audio/dp/B0070W5C2C/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473241227&sr=1-3&keywords=project+dac
But preferably with:
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-DAC-Box-USB-Black/dp/B009D4267O/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473241317&sr=1-1&keywords=project+dac
Or with a dac of your choice

If you can find a V90-HPA for around 160$ i think its pretty much unbeatable in that price range.


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I'm thinking about buying an external AMP and DAC combo. Which one should I get for headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm. Was thinking like Schiit Modi and Magni if that's the right combo. I'm using a Schiit Fulla which is a USB DAC and AMP.


When you go to buy you should definitely sign up to stereo.net.au and keep an eye on the classifieds section there if you're after second-hand gear. That's where I've done the majority of my head-fi related purchases







.


----------



## xutnubu

Can you guys recommend a USB sound card with amplifier for a W10 laptop, even better if it works with Android.

I'd also need software to adjust the EQ. Edit: To clarify, I don't need EQ control on the unit itself, just in Windows, I guess there are programs to manipulate the EQ system wide?

Just for reference, I have a $25 Asus Xonar DG on my desktop, and that's what I'm looking for, nothing too fancy.

Budget is $40-80.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xutnubu*
> 
> Can you guys recommend a USB sound card with amplifier for a W10 laptop, even better if it works with Android.
> 
> I'd also need software to adjust the EQ. Edit: To clarify, I don't need EQ control on the unit itself, just in Windows, I guess there are programs to manipulate the EQ system wide?
> 
> Just for reference, I have a $25 Asus Xonar DG on my desktop, and that's what I'm looking for, nothing too fancy.
> 
> Budget is $40-80.


https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Black-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01DP5JHHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473657633&sr=8-1&keywords=dragonfly+black


----------



## xutnubu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xutnubu*
> 
> Can you guys recommend a USB sound card with amplifier for a W10 laptop, even better if it works with Android.
> 
> I'd also need software to adjust the EQ. Edit: To clarify, I don't need EQ control on the unit itself, just in Windows, I guess there are programs to manipulate the EQ system wide?
> 
> Just for reference, I have a $25 Asus Xonar DG on my desktop, and that's what I'm looking for, nothing too fancy.
> 
> Budget is $40-80.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Black-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01DP5JHHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473657633&sr=8-1&keywords=dragonfly+black
Click to expand...

Thanks, but looks a bit expensive. I looked at related products, what about these:

https://www.amazon.com/K1-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Titanium/dp/B0189EVGAG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1473695536&sr=8-2&keywords=fiio+q1

Same size but less than half the price.

https://www.amazon.com/Q1-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B0157DKAU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473695536&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+q1

This one looks good as well.

I'm wondering if I'd be able to set an EQ using something like Equalizer APO so I can tune down the highs on my headphones, would these adapters be able to work with that kind of software EQ if the audio is being transmitted through the USB port and not the line?


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xutnubu*
> 
> Thanks, but looks a bit expensive. I looked at related products, what about these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/K1-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Titanium/dp/B0189EVGAG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1473695536&sr=8-2&keywords=fiio+q1
> 
> Same size but less than half the price.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Q1-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B0157DKAU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473695536&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+q1
> 
> This one looks good as well.
> 
> I'm wondering if I'd be able to set an EQ using something like Equalizer APO so I can tune down the highs on my headphones, would these adapters be able to work with that kind of software EQ if the audio is being transmitted through the USB port and not the line?


I dont know those 2 other dac/amps sorry








I only recommend stuff that i personally have used.

EQ is no problem with any of these dacs.
Equalizer APO basicly works with every audio device on your PC.


----------



## Iceman2733

Can you guys recommend an AMP/DAC for a set of Hifiman HE-400i headphones? I am using the onboard Realtek but the sound sucks and lacks volume even tho they advertise good for up to 600ohm headphones. I am new to the sound world so go easy on me with the lack of proper terminology.

Headset: Hifiman HE-400i
Price Range: 250ish
Used for: FPS Gaming and Music (FPS main focus tho)

I was looking at the Mayflower Odac/Desktop Objective 2 or the Schiit Magni 2/Modi 2

I have read on other sites that DAC like these are not good for gaming due to lack of emulating surround sound for FPS gaming. Any help guys would be great I would really appreciate it. Was going to go with a Z sound card but I can't due to lack of PCI-E lanes left silly me for going Z170


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Can you guys recommend an AMP/DAC for a set of Hifiman HE-400i headphones? I am using the onboard Realtek but the sound sucks and lacks volume even tho they advertise good for up to 600ohm headphones. I am new to the sound world so go easy on me with the lack of proper terminology.
> 
> Headset: Hifiman HE-400i
> Price Range: 250ish
> Used for: FPS Gaming and Music (FPS main focus tho)
> 
> I was looking at the Mayflower Odac/Desktop Objective 2 or the Schiit Magni 2/Modi 2
> 
> I have read on other sites that DAC like these are not good for gaming due to lack of emulating surround sound for FPS gaming. Any help guys would be great I would really appreciate it. Was going to go with a Z sound card but I can't due to lack of PCI-E lanes left silly me for going Z170


Personally i would say the O2, i myself am not that fond of the Modi/Magni combo.

I also personally like the Musical Fidelity V90-HPA at this price range.
The DAC inside isnt worlds best but the headphone stage is really good for a budget dac/amp combo.
The DAC can also be upgraded in the future since it has an analog input to. (USB is the only digital input though)
Price range's between 160$ and 199$

The H400I is a planer headphone, even though its just 32ohms they are still kind of hard to drive.
Think we have some experienced "planar" users here to so lets hope they can chip in to


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So AMP / DAC combos, what ones are around that can have speakers and headphones at the same time and cost under $500 USD?

I do currently have the O2 AMP with the ODAC but having them split is starting to bug me, trying to decide if I should buy an O2 with them combined or if there's better options out now, headphones are currently DT-880 250ohm, may change them to not sure yet.

Thanks


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So AMP / DAC combos, what ones are around that can have speakers and headphones at the same time and cost under $500 USD?
> 
> I do currently have the O2 AMP with the ODAC but having them split is starting to bug me, trying to decide if I should buy an O2 with them combined or if there's better options out now, headphones are currently DT-880 250ohm, may change them to not sure yet.
> 
> Thanks


Passive or active speakers? If active speakers, there are many options including the new Schiit.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Passive or active speakers? If active speakers, there are many options including the new Schiit.


Swan M50W speakers, active.

Should also of said black / wood would be preferred as well and has to be a single power plug as well (running out of power points







)


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Swan M50W speakers, active.
> 
> Should also of said black / wood would be preferred as well and has to be a single power plug as well (running out of power points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Off the top of my head:

Parasound ZDac v2, might be able to find it for under $500.
http://www.parasound.com/zdac-v2.php

New Schiit, not black or wood though.
http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Off the top of my head:
> 
> Parasound ZDac v2, might be able to find it for under $500.
> http://www.parasound.com/zdac-v2.php
> 
> New Schiit, not black or wood though.
> http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim


Thanks I'll have a look







.


----------



## Elrick

Have a question here in regards to XLR Cables, is there a manufacturer you guys love using when connecting your DACs to Speakers?

Tried looking everywhere within this section and there is no mention or recommendation of XLR cables because everyone is selling them and I want the best quality ones for my system.

Just don't want to waste money on some dodgy cables that will affect my music output.


----------



## iamwardicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Have a question here in regards to XLR Cables, is there a manufacturer you guys love using when connecting your DACs to Speakers?
> 
> Tried looking everywhere within this section and there is no mention or recommendation of XLR cables because everyone is selling them and I want the best quality ones for my system.
> 
> Just don't want to waste money on some dodgy cables that will affect my music output.


The most expensive cable I would buy would be one from Blue Jeans Cable, and that's only if you're one of the folks who thinks cables really do make that much of a difference. Otherwise I typically use AmazonBasics or Monoprice cables cause they're cheap and they work.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus*
> 
> The most expensive cable I would buy would be one from Blue Jeans Cable, and that's only if you're one of the folks who thinks cables really do make that much of a difference. Otherwise I typically use AmazonBasics or Monoprice cables cause they're cheap and they work.


Thanks for that.

It just freaks me out on Ebay when I see certain cables like Toslinks, HDMI's and XLR's costing anywhere around $900 to $1800USD for a 1 meter long cable.

At first I was attracted to it due to the price tag thinking this MUST be Good for your listening pleasure, so thinking that I had to fork out those amounts to enjoy my music and movies. This time I might get away with something in the $40 to 60USD range instead and see how it sounds.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

While they MAY make a difference for highly sensitive equipment like IEM's, unless a cable is not OFC, damaged, or defective, they should all sound the same provided they are not too thin. Cables are literally the last thing to upgrade / spend big money on if at all.


----------



## billbartuska

Since nothing that you put between you ears and the original live sound can *improve* what you hear, only make it less worse, different cables can and do "sound" different.

Not only can what comes in be closer to what comes out, but those differences can change the "sound" you hear - add or reduce lows or highs, change the "sound stage", etc.. So the same cable may sound different on one system compared to another depending on what the system needs or lacks, sound wise.

So, price is only one consideration when seeking improved sound by changing cables.

Those that have the most success are those that read reviews of what a particular cable did to a system with identical components to what the purchaser wants to connect or those that just try a lot of different cables.


----------



## boredgunner

I just picked up some Kimber Kable Hero XLR interconnects. Previous ones I had were like $12 and sounded a lot worse than the similarly priced extremely long RCA cables I had in its place. Will be testing these out tonight, although I won't be using them to connect a DAC to speakers but rather my DAC to my wannabe KGSS.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I just picked up some Kimber Kable Hero XLR interconnects. Previous ones I had were like $12 and sounded a lot worse than the similarly priced extremely long RCA cables I had in its place.


Let us know whether your Kimber's are really worth their price in Gold when it comes to performance.


----------



## AmirrezASe7eN

Hello guys, I'm looking for a cheap headset for listening rock and metal music and also gaming (but music is more important)
My budget is 30 - 80 dollars
What headsets are the best for me?
Thank you and sorry for bad english


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AmirrezASe7eN*
> 
> Hello guys, I'm looking for a cheap headset for listening rock and metal music and also gaming (but music is more important)
> My budget is 30 - 80 dollars
> What headsets are the best for me?
> Thank you and sorry for bad english


Welcome to OCN
You may get better answers in this thread:

OCN Headphones and Earphones Club


----------



## c0dy

Anybody got a recommendation for me regarding a cheap USB-Soundcard/Adapter?

I'm using a Xonar Essence STX with a Beyerdynamic MMX300 but GPU load causes a buzzing on the mic. PSU already got replaced and it got a little bit better, but still.

I haven't ordered any of these cheap adapters, because I'd like to avoid getting much white noise.

I also could go for a completely different setup since I still got a giftcard for mindfactory of 200€, but since the STX sounds good enough for me and only the mic has issues under load it would be a bit overkill I guess.

Also IF I'd get something from there it better be 200€+ since I can only use it once and it has to be more than 200 to be able to use it









Thanks guys!









EDIT: Forgot to add the direct link for you to see what they got. http://www.mindfactory.de/Hardware/Sound/Soundkarten.html


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> Anybody got a recommendation for me regarding a cheap USB-Soundcard/Adapter?
> 
> I'm using a Xonar Essence STX with a Beyerdynamic MMX300 but GPU load causes a buzzing on the mic. PSU already got replaced and it got a little bit better, but still.
> 
> I haven't ordered any of these cheap adapters, because I'd like to avoid getting much white noise.
> 
> I also could go for a completely different setup since I still got a giftcard for mindfactory of 200€, but since the STX sounds good enough for me and only the mic has issues under load it would be a bit overkill I guess.
> 
> Also IF I'd get something from there it better be 200€+ since I can only use it once and it has to be more than 200 to be able to use it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add the direct link for you to see what they got. http://www.mindfactory.de/Hardware/Sound/Soundkarten.html


Have you tried out the onboard audio mic input yet to see if the buzz is reduced? I think that'd be worth a try before investing any money into it.


----------



## LostParticle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Have you tried out the onboard audio mic input yet to see if the buzz is reduced? I think that'd be worth a try before investing any money into it.


Hi,

I am having a light buzz, when I turn the volume of my amplifier to the max, with my ASUS Essence STX II audio device, too. Can you please explain what exactly do you mean?

So, in my case, should I go to the Mixer in the Audio Center, for example, and take all the mic sliders down?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Thank you.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LostParticle*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am having a light buzz, when I turn the volume of my amplifier to the max, with my ASUS Essence STX II audio device, too. Can you please explain what exactly do you mean?
> 
> So, in my case, should I go to the Mixer in the Audio Center, for example, and take all the mic sliders down?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.


I mean enabling onboard audio on your motherboard and testing the microphone to ensure that it's indeed the card and not the microphone. Also, if you decided to go with a solution that is external (USB-based), you would most likely want to do this as well. That is unless you have a USB interface that you're going to use for this purpose.


----------



## c0dy

Yes. I have tried the onboard (which is ACL1150) and an X-Fi. It fixes it. BUT onboard has basically pretty much low volume with quite high white noise. The X-Fi is a bit better on that part (volume wise) but it still also has a lot more white noise than the STX. Which is so unfortunate :/

I've also tested a separate PSU just for the STX and it also fixes the buzzing under gpu load.

There are these Power Adapters to power HDD's externaly (Molex/SATA) and connect them via USB. But I'm not sure if that would be a 24/7 solution.


----------



## pez

It might be better to attempt to find a different solution altogether. For example, a USB mic can be had for a reasonable price, and if you're not getting any of the buzzing through your headphones, it would save you the trouble.


----------



## OC'ing Noob

Wrong thread


----------



## jayfkay

I read plenty of good things about the Asus Xonar Essence, yet it is not recommended here?

My plan was to upgrade from my HD595 to a DT880/990 with a Xonar Essence STX. Would you guys actually strongly advice against it?

My budget is like 350 tops. I am from Europe so the here reocmmended entry Schiit gear is only available via costly import.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> I read plenty of good things about the Asus Xonar Essence, yet it is not recommended here?
> 
> My plan was to upgrade from my HD595 to a DT880/990 with a Xonar Essence STX. Would you guys actually strongly advice against it?
> 
> My budget is like 350 tops. I am from Europe so the here reocmmended entry Schiit gear is only available via costly import.


The thread is severely outdated unfortunately :/. You can check out the headphone/earphone club in my sig for a more active bunch of folks







;.

Is your $350 (well probably Euro in your case







) budget just for the amp and DAC? Or is that headphones, too?


----------



## jayfkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> The thread is severely outdated unfortunately :/. You can check out the headphone/earphone club in my sig for a more active bunch of folks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ;.
> 
> Is your $350 (well probably Euro in your case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) budget just for the amp and DAC? Or is that headphones, too?


Hey, yeah my budget is like 300-400 tops for everything. Probably good sound is achievable for less if you know what to buy and where (older stuff presumably), but yeah.

Also the DT990 is just an option, I actually would prefer closed headphones so the rain tapping the windows or construction work or loud neighbours does not interfere iwth my gaming/listening experience.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> Hey, yeah my budget is like 300-400 tops for everything. Probably good sound is achievable for less if you know what to buy and where (older stuff presumably), but yeah.
> 
> Also the DT990 is just an option, I actually would prefer closed headphones so the rain tapping the windows or construction work or loud neighbours does not interfere iwth my gaming/listening experience.


Alright, cool. Check out the headphone club thread linked in my sig. We've got a lot of great members that have a ton of experience that can help you out. I think you can definitely get what you want to accomplish done for that price. That's quite a good budget to start with, honestly.


----------



## Shardnax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> I read plenty of good things about the Asus Xonar Essence, yet it is not recommended here?
> 
> My plan was to upgrade from my HD595 to a DT880/990 with a Xonar Essence STX. Would you guys actually strongly advice against it?
> 
> My budget is like 350 tops. I am from Europe so the here reocmmended entry Schiit gear is only available via costly import.


I have an Essence ST, it's a solid card with a few caveats:

My microphone will occasionally buzz but, checking the cord or fiddling with the mic always solves it. It is a junky headset mic I've thought was going to die a few times so I'm not sure where the fault is on that front.
Asus' driver support is terrible.
GX (EAX emulation) is unlikely to ever be fixed or improved.
Finally, the amp isn't very good.

If you're interested in playing older games with EAX I'd go for the X-Fi Titanium/HD.


----------



## pez

And if you do have interest in the Titanium HD, I still have one that I have no use for any longer. You could PM me about that if interested.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shardnax*
> 
> I have an Essence ST, it's a solid card with a few caveats:
> 
> My microphone will occasionally buzz but, checking the cord or fiddling with the mic always solves it. It is a junky headset mic I've thought was going to die a few times so I'm not sure where the fault is on that front.
> Asus' driver support is terrible.
> GX (EAX emulation) is unlikely to ever be fixed or improved.
> Finally, the amp isn't very good.
> 
> If you're interested in playing older games with EAX I'd go for the X-Fi Titanium/HD.


Yeah I'm not entirely sure why one would get an ASUS sound card, when games that really take advantage of hardware accelerated sound only do so on Creative (and Auzentech but they're dead). Sound quality improvements? Get an external DAC and amp.


----------



## IaVoR

I have STX with HD600 and listening to music is amazing, now if you want some fancy EAX, virtual surround or whatever special FX maybe look elsewhere.
I personally don't use these features, and I'm a gamer


----------



## Shardnax

Better audio processing is a good thing. It's especially nice in single player games.


----------



## rathborne

Creative's X-Fi MB3 software is a software sound card similar to the Razer Surround that could be considered. It can be used to fully restore EAX5 support for older games and act as a virtual surround device. Make it the default sound output in Windows and the MB3 targets another sound device like the Realtek digital out or external USB DAC to handle the actual audio output. I still need to install Thief: Deadly Shadows for more testing but Hitman Blood Money and Doom 3 both recognised that an EAX5/OpenAL sound card was installed and seemed to perform reverb (its been years since I last heard true hardware accelerated sound and it was on a Creative 7.1 speaker set). I have had some trouble properly setting up the 7.1 virtual surround but I haven't spent enough time to fix it. Lately I have been simply using the FiiO E10K USB DAC directly when playing Tomb Raider (2012), Hitman (2016) and Portal 2 as their sound engines seem better than other games for the headphones. It might be a cheaper option than getting another sound card or if you have an external DAC but want some extra sound functionality.


----------



## Streetdragon

So a "Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD" is a good card? http://d287ku8w5owj51.cloudfront.net/images/products/large/pdt_20059.png.ashx?width=450&height=350

I wanna use the cinch output for my Yamaha AX 750 RS

Im realy nooby with soundcards.. Only use my onboard and a adapter like this: https://images.otto.de/asset/mmo/formatz/hama-adapter-2x-cinch-kupplung-klinken-stecker-3-5-mm-stereo-schwarz-6755164.jpg

Just wanna get more out of my system while gaming


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> So a "Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD" is a good card? http://d287ku8w5owj51.cloudfront.net/images/products/large/pdt_20059.png.ashx?width=450&height=350
> 
> I wanna use the cinch output for my Yamaha AX 750 RS
> 
> Im realy nooby with soundcards.. Only use my onboard and a adapter like this: https://images.otto.de/asset/mmo/formatz/hama-adapter-2x-cinch-kupplung-klinken-stecker-3-5-mm-stereo-schwarz-6755164.jpg
> 
> Just wanna get more out of my system while gaming


Yes it's good. Although it is limited to 5.1 surround. If you need 7.1 there are a few other X-Fi models that support it (X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro/Champion being the best I think). Weird how Creative downgraded from that and to this day only goes up to 5.1.


----------



## Streetdragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Yes it's good. Although it is limited to 5.1 surround. If you need 7.1 there are a few other X-Fi models that support it (X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro/Champion being the best I think). Weird how Creative downgraded from that and to this day only goes up to 5.1.


nice. hopefully i can get one cheap^^ would a pci cable extension give problems? like worse sound? dont wanna cook the soundcard between my 2 r9 390

Woud need to do this 3 times in a row http://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-PCI-Express-Verlangerung-Extender-Riser-19-22cm-36-Pins-PCIe-/232096401002?hash=item360a06066a:gqcAAOSwLzdWTuwe


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Streetdragon*
> 
> nice. hopefully i can get one cheap^^ would a pci cable extension give problems? like worse sound? dont wanna cook the soundcard between my 2 r9 390
> 
> Woud need to do this 3 times in a row http://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-PCI-Express-Verlangerung-Extender-Riser-19-22cm-36-Pins-PCIe-/232096401002?hash=item360a06066a:gqcAAOSwLzdWTuwe


I've heard some horror stories about PCI-E extension cables, but I have no experience myself. Also the Titanium HD is never sold for cheap, usually around $100 or a little more. Creative does have external sound cards though; the X-Fi HD if you want the older processor, and the Sound Blaster Omni which is currently in production (which I've also tested, ALchemy works great with it).


----------



## Shardnax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> I've heard some horror stories about PCI-E extension cables, but I have no experience myself. Also the Titanium HD is never sold for cheap, usually around $100 or a little more. Creative does have external sound cards though; the X-Fi HD if you want the older processor, and the Sound Blaster Omni which is currently in production (which I've also tested, ALchemy works great with it).


It goes as low as $40 if you're very patient. Realistically it's about $60 - $80 used and only the impatient people pay $100 these days







.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shardnax*
> 
> It goes as low as $40 if you're very patient. Realistically it's about $60 - $80 used and only the impatient people pay $100 these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Interesting. I've followed many ebay bids for the Titanium HD, although never saw many used ones on forums. On ebay it'd start off as low as $40 but jump up to around $100 by the end of it. I paid $96 for mine. I'm about to replace mine with the Titanium Fatal1ty Pro just for future 7.1 support (if this is even possible over optical via DTS: Interactive) but I'm not selling it, will keep it as backup.


----------



## Streetdragon

i can get one for 80€.. so it is not bad^^


----------



## jayfkay

Does the Aurvana Live 2 require a soundcard / amp / dac to run well?


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> Does the Aurvana Live 2 require a soundcard / amp / dac to run well?


That's a really hard question to answer because I don't know what "well" means ti you.

Yes, any of those options will work, as will on-board sound.


----------



## jayfkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *billbartuska*
> 
> That's a really hard question to answer because I don't know what "well" means ti you.
> 
> Yes, any of those options will work, as will on-board sound.


I wonder if the difference is significant or rather subtle on this particular headphone? Asking because a friend bought a Sennheiser Game One and I want to convince him to get good headphones instead in the same range (100-150 bucks). Considered the Aurvana for this reason, but have not personally used them.


----------



## billbartuska

_In order the hear the difference your stuff has to be able to play the difference_

$99 headphones - I doubt it.


----------



## jayfkay

Thanks, I dont know what hardware the fairly new Game One uses tho, is the consensus that something like a pair of Aurvana Live would definitely sound better?


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> Thanks, I dont know what hardware the fairly new Game One uses tho, is the consensus that something like a pair of Aurvana Live would definitely sound better?


I think you should ask you question in this thread. You'll get better answers there:

[Official] OCN Headphones and Earphones Club


----------



## pez

Hey Guys,

I know I'm still a bit MIA lately, but I did have a chance to put up the freebie! Everyone is welcome to join so long as they have been here >90 days







.

I actually posted this earlier and forgot to notify everyone







.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1617766/ocn-hec-holiday-giveaway-feat-massdrop-x-hifiman-he-350#post_25693417

This thread has a bit less activity, but figured I'd post it here for those that follow this thread and possibly not the club thread.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: rant
> 
> 
> 
> So, I had the HD800 with the O2+ODAC for a while. The HD800's cable died (in less than a year (so much for high end german engineering product)). Customer service for international orders is beyond horrible (more than a month waiting). and now I'm using some generic cheap chinese headphones. I am thinking of buying another headphones but, I'm not going to get another overpriced "high end" headphones. So, I am thinking of getting the Audio-Technica ATH-AD900X because it is rumored to be the cheaper alternative to the HD800.
> Btw, The cable dying is an issue with the HD800.
> 
> _Update :
> 
> _
> 
> So, after one day of posting this and getting no answers, i decided to get the ATH-AD900X. while at amazon.com's page deciding to buy the ATH-AD900X i looked at my HD800 and felt sad for it. so at the last moment i decided to buy a replacement hd800 cable. I bought the cable for about $200 from amazon.com.
> The next day i received an email from Sennheiser support telling me that they are going to send me a new replacement cable.
> Amazon's shipping option shipped the cable within 2 days (which was the selected option), sennheiser's customer support cable arrived after 7 days of said email.
> Now i am using the HD800, and worried on how long will it take for the current cable to die as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am thinking of buying a new headphones.
> 
> Requirements
> 
> Neutral
> Non coloured
> Detailed
> Wide sound-stage
> Basically want a cheaper version of the HD800
> I already have an O2+ODAC combo
> 
> What do you guys think about the Audio-Technica ATH-AD900X?
> Is it the best headphones within its price range that meats my requirements?
> Do my requirements translate to accurate sound? (including the "detailed" and "wide sound-stage" parts)
> Other suggestions?


----------



## caenlen

Anyone looking for some EDM cans, after testing 80+ headphones I recommend Monoprice 8324 (not 8323) with Alcantara Shure earpads, sounds better than $600 Audioquest Nighthawks when paired with Schiit Fulla 2 dac/amp and given a 30 minute burn in.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*


So my immediate recommendation is the K7XX or Q701. Whichever you find cheaper. It fits your description pretty spot on, IMO. The K7XX is said to be a bit bassier and lose out on the soundstage slightly because of this. I still keep my Q701 around to have a neutral, soundstage-heavy headphone. I *believe* the K7XX is currently on drop at Massdrop.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> So my immediate recommendation is the K7XX or Q701. Whichever you find cheaper. It fits your description pretty spot on, IMO. The K7XX is said to be a bit bassier and lose out on the soundstage slightly because of this. I still keep my Q701 around to have a neutral, soundstage-heavy headphone. I *believe* the K7XX is currently on drop at Massdrop.


Unless there is an after market mod for the q701s to fix the headband, I would never recommend them.

They were my first pair of real headphones, and I liked them a lot, but those bumps on head band actually damaged my scalp. I have a tiny little bald spot because those bumps basically burned themselves into my head. (I would wear them for 8 hours plus for gaming and what not)

I had to "fix" them by attaching some foam to the band and then wrapped the thing in electrical tape. It was a huge mess.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Unless there is an after market mod for the q701s to fix the headband, I would never recommend them.
> 
> They were my first pair of real headphones, and I liked them a lot, but those bumps on head band actually damaged my scalp. I have a tiny little bald spot because those bumps basically burned themselves into my head. (I would wear them for 8 hours plus for gaming and what not)
> 
> I had to "fix" them by attaching some foam to the band and then wrapped the thing in electrical tape. It was a huge mess.


Ah, good call. I do forget that people don't like the headband. It never got to me, personally, but I've had thick, longer hair for quite some time







.


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> So my immediate recommendation is the K7XX or Q701. Whichever you find cheaper. It fits your description pretty spot on, IMO. The K7XX is said to be a bit bassier and lose out on the soundstage slightly because of this. I still keep my Q701 around to have a neutral, soundstage-heavy headphone. I *believe* the K7XX is currently on drop at Massdrop.


If you decide to go with the K7XX I recommend you pair it with the Xduoo TA-01 AMP, it really brings vocals more forward while maintaining the soundstage for the instruments, makes it a lot more fun imo. My Vali 2 made it sound boring.


----------



## FreeElectron

Ok, What about a microphone?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ANTLION AUDIO ModMic by FreeElectron*
> 
> I like the ability to stick this microphone on a headphone and simply use it without any further hassle.
> Are there any other/better alternatives that provide the same convenient functionality?
> Which version of ModMic should i go for?


----------



## pez

I actually have one still that is being used on my GFs headphones. It's currently put onto a set of HD650 and is a super solid fit. Looks natural and OEM even. I just looked at the versions and I don't see why the v5 would be absolutely necessary. A little disappointing to see them start to tread onto standalone mic territory with the prices. The v4 should be good and I believe it is a directional mic, so sounds from typing or anything non-voice should be pretty muted.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I actually have one still that is being used on my GFs headphones. It's currently put onto a set of HD650 and is a super solid fit. Looks natural and OEM even. I just looked at the versions and I don't see why the v5 would be absolutely necessary. A little disappointing to see them start to tread onto standalone mic territory with the prices. The v4 should be good and I believe it is a directional mic, so sounds from typing or anything non-voice should be pretty muted.


The V4 had 4 versions alternating between Uni and Omni, mute and no mute, the v5 is modular and allows you to choose the mode, and to choose if you want to have the mute module installed or not. it also has a sturdier microphone material that bends harder and stays at its position better than the v4.
I already had a desktop mic but couldn't use it because i needed to buy a punch of accessories as well as it taking space on my desk. that was too much for me as someone who only cares about clear chatting and voice communication. not going to podcast, record or do any professional audio production and the most convenient option was the modmic 5. so i bought it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> So my immediate recommendation is the K7XX or Q701. Whichever you find cheaper. It fits your description pretty spot on, IMO. The K7XX is said to be a bit bassier and lose out on the soundstage slightly because of this. I still keep my Q701 around to have a neutral, soundstage-heavy headphone. I *believe* the K7XX is currently on drop at Massdrop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Unless there is an after market mod for the q701s to fix the headband, I would never recommend them.
> 
> They were my first pair of real headphones, and I liked them a lot, but those bumps on head band actually damaged my scalp. I have a tiny little bald spot because those bumps basically burned themselves into my head. (I would wear them for 8 hours plus for gaming and what not)
> 
> I had to "fix" them by attaching some foam to the band and then wrapped the thing in electrical tape. It was a huge mess.


Updated OP (both here and in its own thread)
Now i am still using the HD800. Ill keep on using it till the current cable dies (the replacement cable looks like the old cable which means that the replacement cable will take some time and die too). when that happens I'll probably sell the HD800 and get the AKG K7XX (assuming that XX stands for variable numbers and not an actual model)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> If you decide to go with the K7XX I recommend you pair it with the Xduoo TA-01 AMP, it really brings vocals more forward while maintaining the soundstage for the instruments, makes it a lot more fun imo. My Vali 2 made it sound boring.


As someone who isn't an audiophile and doesn't understand (or feel) the different terms used by audiophiles (words are not enough to describe sound), I decided on neutral, non coloring audio components so that i can hear sound accurately regardless of my changing musical taste.


----------



## Shardnax

AKG 7XX is a Massdrop variant of one of the AKG 700something pairs, I don't remember which. As far as the HD800 cord dying goes, I've seen pairs in the <10k serial range with the original so it sounds like you got a dud. All cabling will succumb to wear and tear eventually.


----------



## boredgunner

K7xx is a Massdrop exclusive version of the K702 65th Anniversary (which is much different than the regular K702). It is very similar to the K712.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shardnax*
> 
> *AKG 7XX is a Massdrop* variant of one of the AKG 700something pairs, I don't remember which. As far as the HD800 cord dying goes, I've seen pairs in the <10k serial range with the original so it sounds like you got a dud. All cabling will succumb to wear and tear eventually.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> *K7xx is a Massdrop* exclusive version of the K702 65th Anniversary (which is much different than the regular K702). It is very similar to the *K712*.


So, Massdrop's AKG K7XX or AKG K712


----------



## pez

Most likely I'd shoot for the K7XX, because a new K712 is much more expensive IIRC.


----------



## NightAntilli

How often is this updated?

Is there any reason the M40x is missing from the headphones list? What about the JBL LSR 305 in the active speakers? The Elac Uni-Fi UB5 in passive?


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightAntilli*
> 
> How often is this updated?
> 
> Is there any reason the M40x is missing from the headphones list? What about the JBL LSR 305 in the active speakers? The Elac Uni-Fi UB5 in passive?


Thread ownership was just passed over to me and we are in the process of a major overhaul of the OP.

That being said in regards to the M40x, I personaly believe the M50X at their sale price might invalidate the recommendation unless the M40X are also equally discounted. However, I've not heard the M40X, either.

I will put it into our list of consideration. Active speakers are not something I'm too familiar with, so I may inquire the help of some other members as well. As always, we thank you for your input







.


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Thread ownership was just passed over to me and we are in the process of a major overhaul of the OP.
> 
> That being said in regards to the M40x, I personaly believe the M50X at their sale price might invalidate the recommendation unless the M40X are also equally discounted. However, I've not heard the M40X, either.
> 
> I will put it into our list of consideration. Active speakers are not something I'm too familiar with, so I may inquire the help of some other members as well. As always, we thank you for your input
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ah ok understandable.

As for the M40x vs M50x, I've listened to both, and honestly, I liked the M40x more. The M50x sounds way too narrow for me. No sound stage at all. It would make it hard to game with. On Amazon, the M50x is ~150 USD, the M40x is ~ 80 USD. I would definitely not pay $70 more (which is almost double) for the M50x. I don't know how prices are in other places around the world.

There is also Status Audio btw. I don't think there are better open back head phones in the ~80 USD price range than the Status Audio OB-1. The CB-1 (closed back) also has good sound, but sadly lacks in build quality, meaning you're better off going with the M40x.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightAntilli*
> 
> Ah ok understandable.
> 
> As for the M40x vs M50x, I've listened to both, and honestly, I liked the M40x more. The M50x sounds way too narrow for me. No sound stage at all. It would make it hard to game with. On Amazon, the M50x is ~150 USD, the M40x is ~ 80 USD. I would definitely not pay $70 more (which is almost double) for the M50x. I don't know how prices are in other places around the world.
> 
> There is also Status Audio btw. I don't think there are better open back head phones in the ~80 USD price range than the Status Audio OB-1. The CB-1 (closed back) also has good sound, but sadly lacks in build quality, meaning you're better off going with the M40x.


Admittedly, I haven't heard the M40x, but I would be curious to. If we get enough praise on the M40x I would be more than happy to possibly lump in a M50x/M40x recommendation with a note that one, I personally wouldn't pay more than $100 for the M50x, and two, it will depend on what type of sound the user is looking for.


----------



## NightAntilli

These videos are somewhat helpful regarding the headphones;










Test method;


----------



## lurker2501

What would be a recommended set of speakers for SMSL M8? I have Dayton Audio B652. Is this DAC overkill for these speakers or it will improve on the sound?


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> What would be a recommended set of speakers for SMSL M8? I have Dayton Audio B652. Is this DAC overkill for these speakers or it will improve on the sound?


It's definitely overkill for those speakers... Don't know what your budget is for your speakers... I'll throw the Elac Uni-Fi UB5 in here... If it's too expensive for you, let me know.


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightAntilli*
> 
> It's definitely overkill for those speakers... Don't know what your budget is for your speakers... I'll throw the Elac Uni-Fi UB5 in here... If it's too expensive for you, let me know.


Yeah, those speakers are a little bit above my budget.


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Yeah, those speakers are a little bit above my budget.


Ok. What's your max budget?


----------



## ventacon

Seems to be a good place to get advice without posting a new thread...

I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, I have always used headphones and never really had speakers. I currently am loving my Sennheiser HD 598's, however I have just moved into a house and I no longer have restrictions of only using headphones. I have not used speakers since the late 90's and I honestly have no idea what is good or what even works with my card.

A friend brought over 2 sets of speakers, Logitech X540... After 40 minutes or so playing around with all the stupid cables we gave up, couldn't get them to play a single sound. Too many cables running out of the sub and not enough plugs on my sound card. Then we hooked up some Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers, the sub only had 1 cable coming out of it and it would only plug into my Headphone Jack... The sound was ok I guess but nothing compared to my headphones.

So anyways I think its time for some speakers! I would like to have speakers and my headphones plugged in at the same time, I am looking mostly for 2.1 setup. I don't want to go over $200 for speakers unless I absolutely have too. Mainly the speakers will be for music and occasionally movies/tv shows from Amazon, I play a lot of video games as well but most of the audio is turned down as I am usually on Discord when playing.

Any recommendations?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ventacon*
> 
> Seems to be a good place to get advice without posting a new thread...
> 
> I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, I have always used headphones and never really had speakers. I currently am loving my Sennheiser HD 598's, however I have just moved into a house and I no longer have restrictions of only using headphones. I have not used speakers since the late 90's and I honestly have no idea what is good or what even works with my card.
> 
> A friend brought over 2 sets of speakers, Logitech X540... After 40 minutes or so playing around with all the stupid cables we gave up, couldn't get them to play a single sound. Too many cables running out of the sub and not enough plugs on my sound card. Then we hooked up some Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers, the sub only had 1 cable coming out of it and it would only plug into my Headphone Jack... The sound was ok I guess but nothing compared to my headphones.
> 
> So anyways I think its time for some speakers! I would like to have speakers and my headphones plugged in at the same time, I am looking mostly for 2.1 setup. I don't want to go over $200 for speakers unless I absolutely have too. Mainly the speakers will be for music and occasionally movies/tv shows from Amazon, I play a lot of video games as well but most of the audio is turned down as I am usually on Discord when playing.
> 
> Any recommendations?


Monoprice 5" powered studio monitors. The best all around speakers I've heard for under $200.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605500

You'll need two RCA cables and a single RCA to 6.35mm aka 1/4" adapter for each, or cables that already have the appropriate terminations (male RCA on one end, male 6.35mm on the other).


----------



## ventacon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> Monoprice 5" powered studio monitors. The best all around speakers I've heard for under $200.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605500
> 
> You'll need two RCA cables and a single RCA to 6.35mm aka 1/4" adapter for each, or cables that already have the appropriate terminations (male RCA on one end, male 6.35mm on the other).


Those look great, I started reading some reviews on them and they seem pretty solid. My only problem now is that I will need a much larger desk to accommodate them...
I have been holding out on a desk and instead slowly buying new PC parts, I guess its time to start looking at desks.


----------



## pez

Yeah, even with my larger desk, I decided to use an ultrawide monitor so I don't have much speaker space. Though you could get some stands/mounts and better point them at you for maximum space efficiency and proper sound.


----------



## NightAntilli

A few alternatives, slightly lower price since you also have to look at a desk;
https://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-20-Watt-Compact-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B00X741TB0/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-PB42X-Powered-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00NXAEPDC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487599032&sr=8-1&keywords=Micca+PB42X

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-R1280T-Powered-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B016P9HJIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487599060&sr=8-1&keywords=Edifier+R1280T

If you want bluetooth functionality;
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DS5QZYO/?tag=thewire06-20&linkCode=xm2&ascsubtag=WC4241

https://www.amazon.com/Mackie-CR-CR3-Reference-Multimedia/dp/B015U623GW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487598990&sr=8-1&keywords=mackie%2Bcr3%2Bcr4&th=1

If you want to skip the desk upgrade, you can spend a bit more and get a Creative Katana Soundbar. It will definitely fit on your desk, if you move a few things around.
https://www.amazon.com/BlasterX-Multi-channel-Bluetooth-Wireless-Soundbar/dp/B01M5G07KF/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487599104&sr=8-1&keywords=sound+blaster+katana

A review here;


----------



## Gamingboy

I want to improve the audio experience of my gaming. After I did some research on gaming headsets, I found out that they are very criticized, you can read here why the best gaming headset is a pair of good headphones and a separate mic . I am convinced that the best solution is to buy a decent pair of headphones and a separate microphone to go with it. What do you guys think? Which headphones would you recommend to use for gaming?


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gamingboy*
> 
> I want to improve the audio experience of my gaming. After I did some research on gaming headsets, I found out that they are very criticized, you can read here why the best gaming headset is a pair of good headphones and a separate mic . I am convinced that the best solution is to buy a decent pair of headphones and a separate microphone to go with it. What do you guys think? Which headphones would you recommend to use for gaming?


Well... Basically, the HyperX Cloud II is fine. Why? Because technically it is just a good headphone with an added mic. See here;




If you don't want to watch the whole thing, the part about the HyperX is after 13:45.


----------



## pez

Yeah, if you're looking for 'easy' the HyperX Clouds are recommended. People here have even recommended the Revolvers as being a nice upgrade.


----------



## H4rd5tyl3

I'm looking for a replacement for my AT A700's I purchased almost 6 years ago now. They are dying and no longer produce bass for some reason? Anyways I was looking to upgrade to the new AX900 verion but stores are showing them as discontinued now? Are there any good replacements out there around that price range? Headphones are used for gaming and bassy music such as rap/hiphop and edm


----------



## DMatthewStewart

I wanted to thank the OP/Janitor of this thread. Im off onboard audio and even with a small investment with the Samson SR850 headphones Ive been introduced to a whole new world. I wish I read this thread before buying a headset.

However, I do have one question regarding mics...

The few that I am considering in this thread are USB mics. Will a USB mic still be processed through my new sound card? Or is this just something that is a direct interface to my motherboard? I guess Im confused as to why we wouldnt just have a direct interface to the new soundcard. Since Im an audio n00b pardon me if this was addressed elsewhere.

And I do have one question regarding 2.1 active speakers... [EDIT: Looks like this is addressed just a few posts back so disregard]

Thanks!


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Ah, good call. I do forget that people don't like the headband. It never got to me, personally, but I've had thick, longer hair for quite some time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Why am I picturing Fabio?


----------



## pez

Haha I wish I was the content creator, but the thread is due for a long needed overhaul. Real life is just a helluva thing. And no, not quite Fabio







. Probably not as handsome anyways







.


----------



## Cyb3r

Pez no love for the Sennheiser he 280 pro's? I have them and got to try the audio Technica entry level headset I have to honestly say I was unimpressed with the audio Technica's both are studio neutral yet the audio Technica's didn't give the same depth I'm accustomed to with the hd280's


----------



## pez

Sorry, once again, this wasn't my original content, I just took over ownership of the thread.

I've tried the HD 280 on a few occasions and I generally like them. They're unoffensive and have a generally pleasant sound. However, their comfort has much to be desired. That being said, if you do like those, I suggest trying out the 380s by Sennheiser as a potential replacement/upgrade.


----------



## Gilles3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> The few that I am considering in this thread are USB mics. Will a USB mic still be processed through my new sound card? Or is this just something that is a direct interface to my motherboard? I guess Im confused as to why we wouldnt just have a direct interface to the new soundcard. Since Im an audio n00b pardon me if this was addressed elsewhere.


USB mics have the ADC(analog to digital converter) and amp build in, so they don't need your soundcard. It just gets recognized as a standalone audio device by your system.

You can get mics with a 3.5mm plug too if you want to use your soundcard, but I've found that USB interfaces for microphones are overall more solid than most soundcards and onboard solutions.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilles3000*
> 
> USB mics have the ADC(analog to digital converter) and amp build in, so they don't need your soundcard. It just get recognized as a standalone audio device by your system.
> 
> You can get mics with a 3.5mm plug too if you want to use your soundcard, but I've found that USB interfaces for microphones are overall more solid than most soundcards and onboard solutions.


I'll second this. My X-FI Titanium HD was great for sound, but the mics input was never consistent through several mics. Ever since going to the Blue Yeti, I've yet to have a problem that was Mic related. USB mic + optical sound for me has been one of the most painless sound setups I've had to date.


----------



## Cyb3r

oops sorry for that pez







and yeah the titanium probably sounds better than the Z wouldn't know since i don't have one but i do have the Z and i have to say they did fix the mic issues mostly it's still not perfect but eh for what i use it for atm it's fine i'm definately swapping to a proper dac later down the line but screen upgrades go first (one of the panels i'm borrowing is starting to die out







) and sadly there's not many 24" + that come with hdmi that aren't above 200$ grmbl and dvi should die out allready lol


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilles3000*
> 
> USB mics have the ADC(analog to digital converter) and amp build in, so they don't need your soundcard. It just gets recognized as a standalone audio device by your system.
> 
> You can get mics with a 3.5mm plug too if you want to use your soundcard, but I've found that USB interfaces for microphones are overall more solid than most soundcards and onboard solutions.


Thanks. That answers my question perfectly as to why its ok to not use the soundcard.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I'll second this. My X-FI Titanium HD was great for sound, but the mics input was never consistent through several mics. Ever since going to the Blue Yeti, I've yet to have a problem that was Mic related. USB mic + optical sound for me has been one of the most painless sound setups I've had to date.


And thank you sir! The cirectional beam mic that my soundcard comes with isnt 100% terrible. (Its about 90% terrible). But it was still better than my headset. A while back I used to fill-in host podcasts and I also want people to be able to hear me clearly in certain games that rely on clear communications (ie Squad, Rising Storm, etc). I had been leaning towards the Samson mic listed here. Its in the right price range and isnt too massive. We'll see what happens. I'll tell you what though...Now that I got the sound card and the headphones Im realizing how bad my speakers are too. Not sure if this was a blessing or a curse. I'll let you know when Im back in the thread talking about dropping $500+ on headphones









Overall, how do the audiophiles feel about having both a soundcard and an external DAC? I think I understand the specifics as to how and why you could need one (as explained on page one)


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> And thank you sir! The cirectional beam mic that my soundcard comes with isnt 100% terrible. (Its about 90% terrible). But it was still better than my headset. A while back I used to fill-in host podcasts and I also want people to be able to hear me clearly in certain games that rely on clear communications (ie Squad, Rising Storm, etc). I had been leaning towards the Samson mic listed here. Its in the right price range and isnt too massive. We'll see what happens. I'll tell you what though...Now that I got the sound card and the headphones Im realizing how bad my speakers are too. Not sure if this was a blessing or a curse. I'll let you know when Im back in the thread talking about dropping $500+ on headphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, how do the audiophiles feel about having both a soundcard and an external DAC? I think I understand the specifics as to how and why you could need one (as explained on page one)


I'm using the Samson Meteor and I'm liking it







. I think I will need to grab a shock mount and angle it up and away from the keyboard as its currently sitting on the desk and picks up everything from the Cherry Brown keys clicking away to making a cup of tea in the next room







. The mute button on the front is a huge bonus for the mic over other mics like the Blue Snowflake.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> And thank you sir! The cirectional beam mic that my soundcard comes with isnt 100% terrible. (Its about 90% terrible). But it was still better than my headset. A while back I used to fill-in host podcasts and I also want people to be able to hear me clearly in certain games that rely on clear communications (ie Squad, Rising Storm, etc). I had been leaning towards the Samson mic listed here. Its in the right price range and isnt too massive. We'll see what happens. I'll tell you what though...Now that I got the sound card and the headphones Im realizing how bad my speakers are too. Not sure if this was a blessing or a curse. I'll let you know when Im back in the thread talking about dropping $500+ on headphones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, how do the audiophiles feel about having both a soundcard and an external DAC? I think I understand the specifics as to how and why you could need one (as explained on page one)


It's a bit redundant, but if you have other inputs that you need and the DAC/amp doesn't have a preamp or something of the sort, I see why it would be desired. I decided to stop using mine as it was one less driver to have and then I eventually moved to ITX, so I don't have the room for it at this point anyways







.

I used the onboard sound for my mic before getting the Blue Yeti and it was perfectly fine. Probably just as fine as the Yeti is, but the quality on my Yeti is better than my ModMic was.


----------



## Gilles3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Overall, how do the audiophiles feel about having both a soundcard and an external DAC? I think I understand the specifics as to how and why you could need one (as explained on page one)


You may know this, but just to make sure this its clear, essentially there's little difference between between a soundcard and an external DAC/Amp aside from the way it connects to the PC, a soundcard is essentially a DAC/Amp that connects trough PCI(e) instead of USB or Toslink.

But while they're essentially the same thing they do target different use-cases.

External DAC/Amps are generally more focused use with headphones (although a lot of high end external DAC's get paired with high end speakers amps).

Soundcards are generally more focused on budget products and speaker surround applications (5.1/7.1)

So someone that wants to use both his high end headphones and his surround speaker setup on a single system could use a soundcard and an external DAC/Amp.


----------



## rathborne

One reason to connect an external DAC to a sound card would be for gaming-related features like virtual surround, EQ and hardware accelerated sound, correct?


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> One reason to connect an external DAC to a sound card would be for gaming-related features like virtual surround, EQ and hardware accelerated sound, correct?


I actually currently have a D30 dac connected to a Xonar DG soundcard through the optical cable and would like to know if such setup makes any sense or it's just gonna warp the output sound.


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> I actually currently have a D30 dac connected to a Xonar DG soundcard through the optical cable and would like to know if such setup makes any sense or it's just gonna warp the output sound.


Optical is digital, meaning it will not alter the signal in any way (unless you're using some form of enhancement). Only the DAC remains relevant.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightAntilli*
> 
> Optical is digital, meaning it will not alter the signal in any way (unless you're using some form of enhancement). Only the DAC remains relevant.


What he said^

If you need the space in your case, you could get away with just using onboard for the optical output. However, if you use the soundcard for anything like EQ for speakers or something, than you may still have use for it. It's really just up to how your setup is.


----------



## sugalumps

Nvm ended up getting an open box of the audioengine a2+, sending them back really not impressed at the price point. Really muddy and overpowering muddy bass, can't really fit bigger speakers on my desk without sacrificing my second monitor so it's back to the fidelio x1 headphones.

Hmmm maybe I could grab the x2's or the sen hd650's.


----------



## ThornTwist

http://www.overclock.net/t/1630530/schiit-modi-not-working-with-pre-amp/0_20

I think I need a new preamp. Any suggestions?


----------



## DMatthewStewart

I have a weird problem that you guys may know something about...

I got my Soundblaster Z card not too long ago. Today, no sound from my headphone jack. I plug any headphones into the jack I get nothing. I plug them into the speaker jack and all headphones play sound. Is it possible to just have a headphone jack die on these when they are so new?

EDIT: pretty sure all headphone capability is dead on this card. Front panel headphones wont work either when plugged into the card. If I plug it into the 2.1 speaker jack I get sound from all headphones plugged into that jack. Any headphone plugged into any headphone jack (rear or front panel) produces no sound. And just out of the blue. Its still pretty new. I was using it, shut the computer down, turned it back an hour later on and nothing. Looks like Im going to have to RMA or even return it if I can.

Also, the Creative Forums seem well managed. I registered and have been waiting 11hrs for the confirmation email just to ask about this problem. Still waiting...


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> I have a weird problem that you guys may know something about...
> 
> I got my Soundblaster Z card not too long ago. Today, no sound from my headphone jack. I plug any headphones into the jack I get nothing. I plug them into the speaker jack and all headphones play sound. Is it possible to just have a headphone jack die on these when they are so new?
> 
> EDIT: pretty sure all headphone capability is dead on this card. Front panel headphones wont work either when plugged into the card. If I plug it into the 2.1 speaker jack I get sound from all headphones plugged into that jack. Any headphone plugged into any headphone jack (rear or front panel) produces no sound. And just out of the blue. Its still pretty new. I was using it, shut the computer down, turned it back an hour later on and nothing. Looks like Im going to have to RMA or even return it if I can.
> 
> Also, the Creative Forums seem well managed. I registered and have been waiting 11hrs for the confirmation email just to ask about this problem. Still waiting...


You likely did, but I'm asking anyway... Did you select headphones in the UI? You find it under the speaker/headphones tab, at the top;



Also; did Windows update the driver? The latest one is known for bricking the sound. Revert back to older ones and see what happens.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightAntilli*
> 
> You likely did, but I'm asking anyway... Did you select headphones in the UI? You find it under the speaker/headphones tab, at the top;
> 
> Also; did Windows update the driver? The latest one is known for bricking the sound. Revert back to older ones and see what happens.


I did switch it in the UI. I actually rely on that switch quite often for switching between headphones and speakers. Re the drivers: I dont know if it updated it and it doesnt give me an option to roll back. I uninstalled and reinstalled the software and drivers and nothing has changed other than...

Oddly, now when I select the Soundblaster Z software it tells me a device is unplugged and UI is not useable at all. But if the headphones are plugged in the sound will now come thru the headphones. But only on one side. And if I unplug the headphones one speaker on one side works. Im leaning towards this thing failing inside of 90 days. I'm going to see if I can test it on another computer.


----------



## XenoRad

@DMatthewStewart

Seeing that you have a SoundBlaster Z, if you also have Win 10 you may need to check the last few pages of this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1337761/official-creative-sound-blaster-z-zx-zxr-series-club/5380

Long story short it seems last week Windows had an update on the sound drivers that messed up a few things on the Z cards. I had a non-responsive center/subwoofer on my 5.1 system and it got easily fixed by rolling back the driver in Device Manager.


----------



## lurker2501

Looking a perfect set of PC speakers to match my Topping D30 DAC. Budget is under $500.


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Looking a perfect set of PC speakers to match my Topping D30 DAC. Budget is under $500.


Since that DAC emphasizes high frequencies and de-emphasizes low frequencies you should use speakers that do the opposite.


----------



## lurker2501

Any particular recommendations?


----------



## billbartuska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Any particular recommendations?


I don't make speaker recommendations because any particular speaker may sound quite different is a different system. And also, what speaker you choose depends on a lot of different things, like the bit rate of what you're going to be listening to, what "sound" you prefer, the acoustic properties of the room the speakers will be in, and on and on.


----------



## NightAntilli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Looking a perfect set of PC speakers to match my Topping D30 DAC. Budget is under $500.


Suggestions for active studio monitors;
JBL LSR305
JBL LSR308
Yamaha HS8
AudioEngine A5+

Passive speakers;
Elac Unifi UB-5
Elac Debut B6
Klipsch RP-160M


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XenoRad*
> 
> @DMatthewStewart
> 
> Seeing that you have a SoundBlaster Z, if you also have Win 10 you may need to check the last few pages of this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1337761/official-creative-sound-blaster-z-zx-zxr-series-club/5380
> 
> Long story short it seems last week Windows had an update on the sound drivers that messed up a few things on the Z cards. I had a non-responsive center/subwoofer on my 5.1 system and it got easily fixed by rolling back the driver in Device Manager.


Would the faulty drivers cause the headphones to work and then all of the sudden stop? I just did a fresh install for windows (the headphone out started working out of the blue the other day) and once the reinstall was done everything was working fine. Out of the blue they stopped working again. ANd you can tell its totally dead because when you plug headphones into the speaker out you hear the plug making the connection. The headphone plus is dead. And its not even sending audio through the front panel. Anyway, I know its not a troubleshooting thread for Soundblaster. I just shouldve bought a $40 Xonar instead.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

@Simca So would you recommend using a headphone amp in conjunction with the Soundblaster Z for headphones that are 600ohm? Even though the SB-Z says it can power 600ohm its prob not wise to try and get good sound quality when its 100% pegged for power. You guys got me hooked on better audio and now Im thinking of getting much better headphones. I do see that some headphones are available in the 200-250ohm range for the same models that are also available in 600ohm, but Im guessing it would be wiser to get an amplifier anyway. Right?


----------



## rathborne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> @Simca So would you recommend using a headphone amp in conjunction with the Soundblaster Z for headphones that are 600ohm? Even though the SB-Z says it can power 600ohm its prob not wise to try and get good sound quality when its 100% pegged for power. You guys got me hooked on better audio and now Im thinking of getting much better headphones. I do see that some headphones are available in the 200-250ohm range for the same models that are also available in 600ohm, but Im guessing it would be wiser to get an amplifier anyway. Right?


Pez is the new moderator of this thread







.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> @Simca So would you recommend using a headphone amp in conjunction with the Soundblaster Z for headphones that are 600ohm? Even though the SB-Z says it can power 600ohm its prob not wise to try and get good sound quality when its 100% pegged for power. You guys got me hooked on better audio and now Im thinking of getting much better headphones. I do see that some headphones are available in the 200-250ohm range for the same models that are also available in 600ohm, but Im guessing it would be wiser to get an amplifier anyway. Right?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Pez is the new moderator of this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Heh, and he's also not going to get a response from Simca....so









But on-topic--what type of headphones are you currently looking into or what do you think looks like the best headphone for you and based on what?

Many people immediately assume you will need a ridiculous amp to power a lot of headphones when that's not necessarily the case. But that's fine, that's just about what everyone is lead to believe from any type of reading online. It's a common misconception, but we'll make a learner of you yet







.

I've got no personal experience with the Soundblaster Z, but before investing in a dedicated DAC, I was using a Titanium HD. The dedicated DAC was a gift, and to be honest, at the time, Creative drivers were 'moody'. I used it as a DAC for my Asgard 2 and I thought it did particularly well. I tell people all the time that if you have even a half decent sound card (which I believe I've seen the Soundblaster Z most certainly is) there's no reason to invest into a DAC until you're ready to drop heavy money into one. You're better off sinking that money into a better amp or headphones most time, and that's where you will see the biggest improvement. Even as you climb into the higher tier headphones, that idea still applies.

My response is possibly pretty scattered, so if you need me to expand on anything, don't hesitate to ask. Many of our members are very knowledgeable and have a lot of experience across many many headphones, so if I can't answer your question, I'll find someone who can







.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rathborne*
> 
> Pez is the new moderator of this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thank you

So, @pez thanks for taking the time to respond

My whole line of thought is basically this: I got off onboard audio, and Im blown away by how much better my audio can be, even with less expensive headphones like the Samson SR850. So now Im looking for a a decent headphone for gaming that has a soundstage and wont need an additional amp to run them. So my Soundblaster Z says its rated for 600ohm. Im just wondering if its safe to run a 600ohm headphones with just the soundcard driving them. Or should I be only trying to push 50% of total amplification? I really cant spend too much on headphones. I would need to stay in the $150 range. Maybe a little more. But right now I am leaning towards the ATH-AD900X. It fits the budget and they seem to be good

One other question I have. For mics, the original post said the Audio-Technica ATR2500 was around $50. And I know the post is older, and I also see that most places sell this mic for around $80. Do you think it would be a better deal - since I am getting close to $100 anyway - to just spend a little more and get and Audio-Technica AT2020 for $100? Seems like that would be a better plan

Thanks Pez


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Thank you
> 
> So, @pez thanks for taking the time to respond
> 
> My whole line of thought is basically this: I got off onboard audio, and Im blown away by how much better my audio can be, even with less expensive headphones like the Samson SR850. So now Im looking for a a decent headphone for gaming that has a soundstage and wont need an additional amp to run them. So my Soundblaster Z says its rated for 600ohm. Im just wondering if its safe to run a 600ohm headphones with just the soundcard driving them. Or should I be only trying to push 50% of total amplification? I really cant spend too much on headphones. I would need to stay in the $150 range. Maybe a little more. But right now I am leaning towards the ATH-AD900X. It fits the budget and they seem to be good
> 
> One other question I have. For mics, the original post said the Audio-Technica ATR2500 was around $50. And I know the post is older, and I also see that most places sell this mic for around $80. Do you think it would be a better deal - since I am getting close to $100 anyway - to just spend a little more and get and Audio-Technica AT2020 for $100? Seems like that would be a better plan
> 
> Thanks Pez


Hey I'm always happy to help where I can







!

For that price range, the AD900X or the Q701/K701/K7XX are really good choices for gaming. I don't like either set for music only, but I keep the Q701 in my stash for gaming alone. The HD6XX that Massdrop has from time to time (the most recent one just ended) is a great choice as well, but I would usually suggest those over the Audio-Technica or AKG only if your usage included ~50% or so of music listening as well. As for using the headphones via your soundcard, you'll be fine. Headphones rely on a bit more than the ohm rating that's provided on a soundcard, so all amps/soundcards that push 600 ohms are not created equal. However, it's still a much better idea to get the headphones first than investing more money in other places you won't see much of a difference.

As for the mics; I've not used either of the A-T mics, though I've always read and heard great things about them. I personally have a Blue Yeti and it does a great job. If you're more interested in gaming and don't need a larger mic, you can always consider the Antlion ModMic. Still provides great sound quality and is usually the better choice for anyone not doing podcasts, streaming, etc.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

@pez Thanks for that response. I had been considering the Antlion mic but, as luck would have it, I may have to do fill-in podcasts (again) in the near future. So I think I am going to have to get into something like a Yeti or the AT's.

I guess my only questions really about soundcard ohms and headphones ohms is really just this (ans I shouldve said this): Can a 600ohm headphone be used with a soundcard that pushes 600 ohm? Or does a600ohm headphone require much more power for usage. For example, I just think of rms calculations for car audio


----------



## billbartuska

Sound cards (nor anything else) "pushes" ohms. Ohms is a measure of the resistance to electrical flow.

Speakers (and headphones) have a particular quirk though. The resistance they provide to the flow of electricity flowing through them varies with the frequency of that electricity.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> @pez Thanks for that response. I had been considering the Antlion mic but, as luck would have it, I may have to do fill-in podcasts (again) in the near future. So I think I am going to have to get into something like a Yeti or the AT's.
> 
> I guess my only questions really about soundcard ohms and headphones ohms is really just this (ans I shouldve said this): Can a 600ohm headphone be used with a soundcard that pushes 600 ohm? Or does a600ohm headphone require much more power for usage. For example, I just think of rms calculations for car audio


Yes, that will be perfectly fine







.


----------



## NightAntilli

Ok. I know it's not so straightforward or fair to compare headphones to studio monitors, but damn, my M40x sounds like utter crap compared to my JBL LSR305.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Yes, that will be perfectly fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Leopanda

Hi there,

I was looking for a gaming headset for 50/50 gaming/music to use with a laptop.

I move a lot, so i thought about some very light dac and close cans for no more than $400.
Could you guys tell if sennheiser Game Zero headset with Audioquest Dragonfly Black be worth it?


----------



## Hl86

I just ordered the Beyerdynamic Tesla 1. Is it any good?


----------



## Shardnax

Last I knew they still had QC problems with the drivers. It's hit and miss as a result.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopanda*
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I was looking for a gaming headset for 50/50 gaming/music to use with a laptop.
> 
> I move a lot, so i thought about some very light dac and close cans for no more than $400.
> Could you guys tell if sennheiser Game Zero headset with Audioquest Dragonfly Black be worth it?


I've not personally used the Sennheiser sets, but I have heard great things about both in the series. If you have a somewhat modern motherboard, you'd be safe to put more of that budget toward the headphone/headset and saving for a better DAC/amp down the line. Alternatively you could get a HD600 or HD650 with a mod mic for under that budget, and the Audioquest Dragonfly would be be put to better use, but it might not be the best solution for that headphone, and again onboard sound could potentially foot the bill for until other upgrades could be obtained.


----------



## FlashFir

Are the soundcard recommendations on the first post still up to date? Or has the market changed?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132052


I'm using an inexpensive XLR input microphone as well as SR850's / Klipsch's 2.1 speaker system for sound so I'm wondering what would be a good soundcard since my XonarDG PCI won't fit in my x370-Pro board (only PCI-E) -_-


----------



## pez

The recommendations for the most part are sorely outdated, but the Asus and Creative cards should still be solid choices. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your standpoint) audio doesn't evolve a whole lot -- only the product offering change.

There are a lot of new products, however, most sound cards are not worth moving off of without good reason unless you have quite a large budget to do so.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your standpoint)


That is unfortunate for everyone.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boredgunner*
> 
> That is unfortunate for everyone.


Heh...yeah -- I had a more specific idea in mind when I typed that, but it kinda worked for audio as a whole







.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Its definitely time for a refresh though. Its to a point where the newer realtek stuff is on par with the asus dg for instance. I wanna say the realtek 1220 can even support higher impedance headphones? I can never get clear specs for realtek.

Titanium HD is sadly no longer even a thing.

Yeah, I am gonna start typing up some stuff and sending it to you. We can whip this back into shape.


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Its definitely time for a refresh though. Its to a point where the newer realtek stuff is on par with the asus dg for instance. I wanna say the realtek 1220 can even support higher impedance headphones? I can never get clear specs for realtek.
> 
> Titanium HD is sadly no longer even a thing.
> 
> Yeah, I am gonna start typing up some stuff and sending it to you. We can whip this back into shape.


Indeed. I could definite use the help on it. And I agree with the Realtek statement. AFAIK, the 1200 series is all the same and similar to mice sensors, the small number differences in the 12'xx' part is usually something designated by the mobo manufacturer and means something different across each one.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Anyone have any gripes about the Audio Technica AT2020 USB (not the USBi)? I dont feel like running phantom power and would rather have direct plug into my rig. If there is something else better that is USB I'd love to know your guys opinions.

Thanks

-DMS


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Anyone have any gripes about the Audio Technica AT2020 USB (not the USBi)? I dont feel like running phantom power and would rather have direct plug into my rig. If there is something else better that is USB I'd love to know your guys opinions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -DMS


I do.

Its the one and only mic I have ever bought, and I like the audio quality and the simplicity a lot.

But the mic has a really weird proprietary usb connector and it is very weak and fragile.

I like to unplug my mic because I get a little paranoid leaving it on, and rather than unplugging it from the back, I would do it from the mic. Within a week (probably 10 connections) the connection was super loose and the audio would cut in and out.

I eventually opened it up and soldered the USB wire directly to the mic, but my god was it a pain in the butt.

In short, great mic. Stupid design.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> I do.
> 
> Its the one and only mic I have ever bought, and I like the audio quality and the simplicity a lot.
> 
> But the mic has a really weird proprietary usb connector and it is very weak and fragile.
> 
> I like to unplug my mic because I get a little paranoid leaving it on, and rather than unplugging it from the back, I would do it from the mic. Within a week (probably 10 connections) the connection was super loose and the audio would cut in and out.
> 
> I eventually opened it up and soldered the USB wire directly to the mic, but my god was it a pain in the butt.
> 
> In short, great mic. Stupid design.


Thank you sir. This is really going to be used as a travel mic and back up. And now I'm wondering if I'll need to solder too. How long ago did you purchase yours? I'm asking because I wonder if it's possible if this problem was fixed in later gens.

Up until a few weeks ago I thought I would have someone to handle the purchasing and set up of out audio gear. Now it looks like it's going to fall on me; a person who only knows a mic is like a reverse speaker. That's the extent of my audio knowledge.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Thank you sir. This is really going to be used as a travel mic and back up. And now I'm wondering if I'll need to solder too. How long ago did you purchase yours? I'm asking because I wonder if it's possible if this problem was fixed in later gens.
> 
> Up until a few weeks ago I thought I would have someone to handle the purchasing and set up of out audio gear. Now it looks like it's going to fall on me; a person who only knows a mic is like a reverse speaker. That's the extent of my audio knowledge.


Less than a year ago.

If you know how to solder, here is what I would do.

Super glue the connector in and cut the wire like 5 or 6 inches down. Then solder in a female micro USB connector. That way you can use any random usb accessory cable as a cable for your mic.

Male to male usb cables are hard to come by these days, so micro usb is really a good way to go if you can swing it.

This also keeps you from disassembling the mic, and it is a MUCH easier project.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Its definitely time for a refresh though. Its to a point where the newer realtek stuff is on par with the asus dg for instance. I wanna say the realtek 1220 can even support higher impedance headphones? I can never get clear specs for realtek.
> 
> Titanium HD is sadly no longer even a thing.
> 
> Yeah, I am gonna start typing up some stuff and sending it to you. We can whip this back into shape.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. I could definite use the help on it. And I agree with the Realtek statement. AFAIK, the 1200 series is all the same and similar to mice sensors, the small number differences in the 12'xx' part is usually something designated by the mobo manufacturer and means something different across each one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your ownership & @Pez for your energy and devotion to the thread.

So it seems that the Realtek might be better? I guess I might as well go for the Refurb/Open Box items...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100161258%20600011978%20600011982%20600011890%20600011892%20600553254%204016%204809&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=BESTMATCH&PageSize=36

If I'm only really using filthy Klipsch 2.1 speakers + SR850 or SR950's then it doesn't really matter right? Just get a cheap one of these... (I use speakers/headphones @ like 90%/10% ratio)


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Thanks for your ownership & @Pez for your energy and devotion to the thread.
> 
> So it seems that the Realtek might be better? I guess I might as well go for the Refurb/Open Box items...
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100161258%20600011978%20600011982%20600011890%20600011892%20600553254%204016%204809&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=BESTMATCH&PageSize=36
> 
> If I'm only really using filthy Klipsch 2.1 speakers + SR850 or SR950's then it doesn't really matter right? Just get a cheap one of these... (I use speakers/headphones @ like 90%/10% ratio)


Some big changes are coming soon and Tjj is the to thank as well for putting in a great amount of work to help me getting this thread back in shape.

As to your question -- if this is to go for your X370 board, you're probably just fine sticking with your onboard sound and eventually going with something dedicated (i.e. external DAC and amp) down the line.


----------



## Leopanda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pez*
> 
> I've not personally used the Sennheiser sets, but I have heard great things about both in the series. If you have a somewhat modern motherboard, you'd be safe to put more of that budget toward the headphone/headset and saving for a better DAC/amp down the line. Alternatively you could get a HD600 or HD650 with a mod mic for under that budget, and the Audioquest Dragonfly would be be put to better use, but it might not be the best solution for that headphone, and again onboard sound could potentially foot the bill for until other upgrades could be obtained.


Thank you for reply, i know that a headset is the worst thing for the money now.

I'm actually all in reading the main audiophile thread now and I think i will join HEC soon with lots of noob questions









You guys make a great job for those who are one step from falling down to the devil's hands buying gaming headsets and other beats


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopanda*
> 
> Thank you for reply, i know that a headset is the worst thing for the money now.
> 
> I'm actually all in reading the main audiophile thread now and I think i will join HEC soon with lots of noob questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys make a great job for those who are one step from falling down to the devil's hands buying gaming headsets and other beats


Please do! We welcome everyone there and are always happy to answer questions. Actual progress was made yesterday in getting this thread updated, so keep an eye out for that as well







.


----------



## Leopanda

Already got some ath-m50x








But will get familiar with latest recomendations of dacs/amps, thanks!


----------



## pez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopanda*
> 
> Already got some ath-m50x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But will get familiar with latest recomendations of dacs/amps, thanks!


Haha don't worry. Those will definitely be staying in the recommendations. I actually genuinely like the m50x







.


----------



## pez

Alright the first real progress has been made in quite some time. Keep an eye out for more updates really soon.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Ignore this post. Just want to test formatting

*Sennheiser HD600* _- $286.12 - Open-Back_

_Overall neutral sound with slightly warm bass; very popular for it's smooth mid range and unoffending highs_

Great headphone for those looking for a neutral headphone that can do just about everything well. The bass errs on the side of being punchy, though a bit light for those seeking headphones to listen to EDM and other bass heavy music. This headphone shines in the midrange where it remains slightly forward, and smooth. The highs are well controlled so that listening to music doesn't become fatiguing.


----------



## rocky11111

is this thread still being updated, or supported ? This is usually my go to place for a quick glance at for good audio products, if this isn't being supported anymore, could anyone recommend a similar thread ?


----------



## pez

rocky11111 said:


> is this thread still being updated, or supported ? This is usually my go to place for a quick glance at for good audio products, if this isn't being supported anymore, could anyone recommend a similar thread ?


We're still refreshing it from what it previously was at as there was a lot of products that were either no longer available or had since been long superceded by something quite a bit better for it's price. Right now the headphone section is mostly updated, but we will be adding some more stuff in the higher price ranges as well. I recently had some 1 on 1 time with the Focal Clears, HD800S, Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Opens and now my Hifiman Edition X v2s.


----------



## danielhowk

for gaming AD900x from audio technica or the DT990 pro would be better? purely for gaming i have a amp ( TEAC A-H01, USB DAC amp)


----------



## pez

The AD900x will be more bass-light, so if you care about immersion, i think the Beyer's will do better in the sense of having some semblance of 'bass'. However, the AD900s supposedly do really well with footsteps if you're looking for a set and play competitive games.


----------



## danielhowk

pez said:


> The AD900x will be more bass-light, so if you care about immersion, i think the Beyer's will do better in the sense of having some semblance of 'bass'. However, the AD900s supposedly do really well with footsteps if you're looking for a set and play competitive games.


what about AKG K712 pro, in comparison to AD900 and 990 pro


----------



## boredgunner

danielhowk said:


> what about AKG K712 pro, in comparison to AD900 and 990 pro


Much bassier than the Audio Technicas but less bassy than the DT 990 (but DT 990 has artificially boosted bass and treble), and it goes for linear mids and treble rather than the recessed mids and boosted treble of the DT 990. 

In other words, it's the best one of the bunch.


----------



## danielhowk

boredgunner said:


> Much bassier than the Audio Technicas but less bassy than the DT 990 (but DT 990 has artificially boosted bass and treble), and it goes for linear mids and treble rather than the recessed mids and boosted treble of the DT 990.
> 
> In other words, it's the best one of the bunch.


should i even consider Sennheiser brand for gaming? if so which model Sennheiser should i go for for that price range


----------



## pez

The Beyer or the AKG have a better sound stage. There's no doubt about that. However, if you're looking for music and gaming, the HD600/650 are some of the greatest all-rounders there is. It really just depends on how specific or broad your use it.


----------



## boredgunner

pez said:


> The Beyer or the AKG have a better sound stage. There's no doubt about that. However, if you're looking for music and gaming, the HD600/650 are some of the greatest all-rounders there is. It really just depends on how specific or broad your use it.


I very strongly disagree about the HD 600 and HD 650 being some of the greatest all-rounders. Their time has passed, old technology and not worth more than $200/250 respectively I think. They're really "jack of all trades, master of none" at best, not master of all trades as some would lead you to believe. Not enough bass quality or slam to be masters of rock, metal, or rap, not enough sound stage or accuracy to be masters of classical, they are only particularly great for chamber music (and on the right amp, they are amp picky). If the HiFiMan Sundara is as good as Tjj says (and I bet it is, it has the technology), then once again the HD 600/650 are blown out of the water (the HE-500 blew them out of the water and was $500 before it was discontinued).

As for gaming, the AKG K7xx beats both of those Sennheisers for gaming. Noticeably bigger sound stage, though I won't say it's a massive difference.


----------



## pez

boredgunner said:


> I very strongly disagree about the HD 600 and HD 650 being some of the greatest all-rounders. Their time has passed, old technology and not worth more than $200/250 respectively I think. They're really "jack of all trades, master of none" at best, not master of all trades as some would lead you to believe. Not enough bass quality or slam to be masters of rock, metal, or rap, not enough sound stage or accuracy to be masters of classical, they are only particularly great for chamber music (and on the right amp, they are amp picky). If the HiFiMan Sundara is as good as Tjj says (and I bet it is, it has the technology), then once again the HD 600/650 are blown out of the water (the HE-500 blew them out of the water and was $500 before it was discontinued).
> 
> As for gaming, the AKG K7xx beats both of those Sennheisers for gaming. Noticeably bigger sound stage, though I won't say it's a massive difference.


All-rounders and jack of all trades are similar phrases in my book. All I read in your post was just an opinion that you disagree, but you still somewhat reiterated what I was ultimately saying.

Let me put it this way. The HD600/650 are great if you listen to a lot of music and play some games. Because I don't know what his focus is, I haven't really recommended anything and said 'get this'. I personally dislike the AKG Q701 and it's closely related brethren. However, some people like it way more than the HD600 or HD650. Ultimately, with the sales on the HD6xx and the K7xx the way they are, people disagree with the both of us. 

If you want to nitpick, Hifiman's build quality is trash. As much as I like the HEXv2, I won't in good conscience recommend anyone buy a set for 'gaming'. Because of their build quality, I'm very hesitant to even recommend the higher end stuff. On top of that, they don't have the soundstage of something like the AKG K7XX, A-T AD700/900 or the HD700, and *most* of their stuff requires some rather unique (read: expensive and potentially headache-inducing) amp/DAC pairing. The Sennheiser HD6xx series scales pretty well with all amping. So yes, people on a budget should keep in mind that some of this stuff we're talking about sounds pretty mediocre on the average <$200 amp/DAC setups most people are running.


----------



## Shardnax

How sturdy is the suspension system/headband for the AKGs?


----------



## The Pook

So I got my AKG K81 DJs in ... and I think it was definitely nostalgia. They sound like poo. Poo with bass, but poo.


----------



## pez

I've heard it's a major weak point in the K7XX, but I don't know if it's been addressed yet. I think it has much to do with manufacturing itself not staying in Austria.


----------



## TLCH723

To whoever asking for recommendation, maybe you should consider the MassDrop HD 6XX for 200USD https://kinjadeals.theinventory.com...ennheiser-hd-6xx-deal-is-back-for-1820676948#


----------



## boredgunner

pez said:


> All-rounders and jack of all trades are similar phrases in my book. All I read in your post was just an opinion that you disagree, but you still somewhat reiterated what I was ultimately saying.
> 
> Let me put it this way. The HD600/650 are great if you listen to a lot of music and play some games. Because I don't know what his focus is, I haven't really recommended anything and said 'get this'. I personally dislike the AKG Q701 and it's closely related brethren. However, some people like it way more than the HD600 or HD650. Ultimately, with the sales on the HD6xx and the K7xx the way they are, people disagree with the both of us.
> 
> If you want to nitpick, Hifiman's build quality is trash. As much as I like the HEXv2, I won't in good conscience recommend anyone buy a set for 'gaming'. Because of their build quality, I'm very hesitant to even recommend the higher end stuff. On top of that, they don't have the soundstage of something like the AKG K7XX, A-T AD700/900 or the HD700, and *most* of their stuff requires some rather unique (read: expensive and potentially headache-inducing) amp/DAC pairing. The Sennheiser HD6xx series scales pretty well with all amping. So yes, people on a budget should keep in mind that some of this stuff we're talking about sounds pretty mediocre on the average <$200 amp/DAC setups most people are running.


Well you said some of the BEST all-rounders, hence why I responded saying they can generously be called all-rounders but are at best jack of all trades, *master of none* (except chamber music maybe... so master of one?). They can be considered all-rounders for the price (only relative to headphones in the price range), but absolutely nowhere near the best. It's not surprising that some higher end headphones curbstomp them in every area. They are no more well rounded than the AKG K7xx really, and worse for gaming.

But yeah HiFiMan build quality is trash, even worse than the HD 6XX/600/650 and even their $3000-6000 headphones use stupidly thin metal for some reason, and weak connectors that will wear out. Not sure about the HEXv2, but the HE-560 sound stage is bigger than that of the AKG K7xx in all directions. Same for the HE-6, HE1000/HE1000v2, and I'm sure the SUSVARA... but who cares since those are all stupidly expensive. 

Not sure why you'd say higher end DACs/amps can be headache inducing, a good DAC and amp will be the opposite of that and only sound better. But yeah planars usually need more amping, not really the case with the HD 6XX/HD 600/HD 650 though: the planars need more current but the Sennheisers need something that can handle high impedance loads well, and is stupidly amp picky. Those Sennheisers can sound like pure crap out of a decent amp. I wouldn't consider them a worthy listen without a good tube amp (on a tight budget, I'd say the bare minimum is the Little Dot MK2), which is similarly costly to an amp you'd need to drive a good planar anyway.



Shardnax said:


> How sturdy is the suspension system/headband for the AKGs?


I've only had the K7xx. Be careful with it and it'll be fine. Abuse it and I can see it breaking.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

boredgunner said:


> Well you said some of the BEST all-rounders, hence why I responded saying they can generously be called all-rounders but are at best jack of all trades, *master of none* (except chamber music maybe... so master of one?). They can be considered all-rounders for the price (only relative to headphones in the price range), but absolutely nowhere near the best. It's not surprising that some higher end headphones curbstomp them in every area. They are no more well rounded than the AKG K7xx really, and worse for gaming.
> 
> But yeah HiFiMan build quality is trash, even worse than the HD 6XX/600/650 and even their $3000-6000 headphones use stupidly thin metal for some reason, and weak connectors that will wear out. Not sure about the HEXv2, but the HE-560 sound stage is bigger than that of the AKG K7xx in all directions. Same for the HE-6, HE1000/HE1000v2, and I'm sure the SUSVARA... but who cares since those are all stupidly expensive.
> 
> Not sure why you'd say higher end DACs/amps can be headache inducing, a good DAC and amp will be the opposite of that and only sound better. But yeah planars usually need more amping, not really the case with the HD 6XX/HD 600/HD 650 though: the planars need more current but the Sennheisers need something that can handle high impedance loads well, and is stupidly amp picky. Those Sennheisers can sound like pure crap out of a decent amp. I wouldn't consider them a worthy listen without a good tube amp (on a tight budget, I'd say the bare minimum is the Little Dot MK2), which is similarly costly to an amp you'd need to drive a good planar anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I've only had the K7xx. Be careful with it and it'll be fine. Abuse it and I can see it breaking.



Well the catch is that the all arounders are usually more enjoyable to listen to. So its kind of a catch 22. 

The build quality on the HD600 and 650 is fine. They can kind of feel rickety, but I can personally attest that they can stand the test of time. The only exception would be the mass drop editions because they did reduce quality on those for cost savings. 

As for hifiman, the thin metal does not equal bad quality. That thin metal is generally spring steel, and its pretty robust stuff. Where I think hifiman fails is their connectors, pads, and other little details. 

The HE-560s actually don't have that big of a sound stage. No idea where you are getting this idea from. There is very little depth to the sound. I could see where you could argue that they have a wide sound stage, but it sounds very flat. The HE-500, HE-6, and all of their current upper range headphones all have a much better sound stage. The only catch is that these headphones need a fairly decent amount of power to drive them (the HE-6 and the other high end headphones actually need a few watts per channel) where as the HE-560 doesn't relatively speaking.


----------



## boredgunner

Tjj226 Angel said:


> Well the catch is that the all arounders are usually more enjoyable to listen to. So its kind of a catch 22.
> 
> The build quality on the HD600 and 650 is fine. They can kind of feel rickety, but I can personally attest that they can stand the test of time. The only exception would be the mass drop editions because they did reduce quality on those for cost savings.
> 
> As for hifiman, the thin metal does not equal bad quality. That thin metal is generally spring steel, and its pretty robust stuff. Where I think hifiman fails is their connectors, pads, and other little details.
> 
> The HE-560s actually don't have that big of a sound stage. No idea where you are getting this idea from. There is very little depth to the sound. I could see where you could argue that they have a wide sound stage, but it sounds very flat. The HE-500, HE-6, and all of their current upper range headphones all have a much better sound stage. The only catch is that these headphones need a fairly decent amount of power to drive them (the HE-6 and the other high end headphones actually need a few watts per channel) where as the HE-560 doesn't relatively speaking.


The AKG K7xx sound stage lacks depth too (so does every sub $200 headphone I've heard in all honesty), but the HE-560 is noticeably wider, so it's a bigger sound stage. And that's unmodded. I haven't extensively modded mine, but those who have say it isn't far off the HD 800. Not that it matters to me much, when I want sound stage I don't look to headphones.


----------



## Gilles3000

Shardnax said:


> How sturdy is the suspension system/headband for the AKGs?





boredgunner said:


> I've only had the K7xx. Be careful with it and it'll be fine. Abuse it and I can see it breaking.


K7xx owner here too, mine has broken guides yet I've always been careful with it. Those clear plastic guides are just plain brittle and start cracking with normal use, only a matter of time before they break.

It still works with them snapped in half though, so not the end of the world, definitely not ideal either.

The poor quality wiring that just breaks off the solder joints depending on how badly it was installed by some kid in China isn't great either... Although this can be fixed by anyone with a screwdriver and a soldering iron.


----------



## pez

boredgunner said:


> pez said:
> 
> 
> 
> All-rounders and jack of all trades are similar phrases in my book. All I read in your post was just an opinion that you disagree, but you still somewhat reiterated what I was ultimately saying.
> 
> Let me put it this way. The HD600/650 are great if you listen to a lot of music and play some games. Because I don't know what his focus is, I haven't really recommended anything and said 'get this'. I personally dislike the AKG Q701 and it's closely related brethren. However, some people like it way more than the HD600 or HD650. Ultimately, with the sales on the HD6xx and the K7xx the way they are, people disagree with the both of us.
> 
> If you want to nitpick, Hifiman's build quality is trash. As much as I like the HEXv2, I won't in good conscience recommend anyone buy a set for 'gaming'. Because of their build quality, I'm very hesitant to even recommend the higher end stuff. On top of that, they don't have the soundstage of something like the AKG K7XX, A-T AD700/900 or the HD700, and *most* of their stuff requires some rather unique (read: expensive and potentially headache-inducing) amp/DAC pairing. The Sennheiser HD6xx series scales pretty well with all amping. So yes, people on a budget should keep in mind that some of this stuff we're talking about sounds pretty mediocre on the average <$200 amp/DAC setups most people are running.
> 
> 
> 
> Well you said some of the BEST all-rounders, hence why I responded saying they can generously be called all-rounders but are at best jack of all trades, *master of none* (except chamber music maybe... so master of one?). They can be considered all-rounders for the price (only relative to headphones in the price range), but absolutely nowhere near the best. It's not surprising that some higher end headphones curbstomp them in every area. They are no more well rounded than the AKG K7xx really, and worse for gaming.
> 
> But yeah HiFiMan build quality is trash, even worse than the HD 6XX/600/650 and even their $3000-6000 headphones use stupidly thin metal for some reason, and weak connectors that will wear out. Not sure about the HEXv2, but the HE-560 sound stage is bigger than that of the AKG K7xx in all directions. Same for the HE-6, HE1000/HE1000v2, and I'm sure the SUSVARA... but who cares since those are all stupidly expensive.
> 
> Not sure why you'd say higher end DACs/amps can be headache inducing, a good DAC and amp will be the opposite of that and only sound better. But yeah planars usually need more amping, not really the case with the HD 6XX/HD 600/HD 650 though: the planars need more current but the Sennheisers need something that can handle high impedance loads well, and is stupidly amp picky. Those Sennheisers can sound like pure crap out of a decent amp. I wouldn't consider them a worthy listen without a good tube amp (on a tight budget, I'd say the bare minimum is the Little Dot MK2), which is similarly costly to an amp you'd need to drive a good planar anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Shardnax said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sturdy is the suspension system/headband for the AKGs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've only had the K7xx. Be careful with it and it'll be fine. Abuse it and I can see it breaking.
Click to expand...

My whole point was for the price you can get them at, they are. 

I'm not really sure what exists at the same price that I'd recommend for an all rounder. Of course better all rounders exist at different price points. Or maybe it's obvious you haven't looked at the OP in a while.

Amp/DAC matching for headphones can be headache inducing. Just buying the most power you can buy in an amp doesn't magically solve everything. 

Like I said....if you're looking for soundstage, build quality and gaming for around 500 and you don't care about music that much, the Hifiman are a terrible recommendation. They're clunky, not considered comfortable for extended use, and require some amp matching to sound their best. In that price range for *gaming* the HD700 walks circles around it.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

boredgunner said:


> The AKG K7xx sound stage lacks depth too (so does every sub $200 headphone I've heard in all honesty), but the HE-560 is noticeably wider, so it's a bigger sound stage. And that's unmodded. I haven't extensively modded mine, but those who have say it isn't far off the HD 800. Not that it matters to me much, when I want sound stage I don't look to headphones.



The difference is I can force the AKG to have a better sound stage with the right amp. I have spent hours trying to accomplish the same thing with the HE-560s and no such luck. 

Cause my thing with sound stage is that I try to find a good balance between wide and deep. If the depth can approach or match the width then your effective sound stage is more circular if that makes sense? A more circular sound stage sounds way more natural. The HE-560 has a very oval shaped sound stage. Very wide, not very deep. It sounds very meh. And I think even hifiman saw this which is why they now have the sundara. 

I am sure if I wear some lucky socks, and do a special dance on the night of a full moon that I can get the 560s to sound right, but no luck so far. 

And it is mattering to me less and less because I very much agree with your last comment.


----------



## enizio

Hey guy, i decided to upgrade from “Asus headset” that is starting to fail to headphone like AKG k712 Pro or Sennheiser HD600 the problem is that don’t have any way to compare if they are comfortable for 6h of use or each one sounds better to mine ears without buying them.

1-My budget is 270€.
2-Going to use them 70% music (I listen little of everything), 20% movies, series, audiobook, 10% gaming.
3-Got soundcard creative blaster zxr, only going to upgrade to more decent dac/amp combo after getting the new headphone and speakers.
4-Am from Europe, impossible to get massdrop versions and hifiman h400i for decent price here, most probably going to buy from amazon.

Thanks.
Any suggestion are welcome.


----------



## boredgunner

pez said:


> Like I said....if you're looking for soundstage, build quality and gaming for around 500 and you don't care about music that much, the Hifiman are a terrible recommendation. They're clunky, not considered comfortable for extended use, and require some amp matching to sound their best. In that price range for *gaming* the HD700 walks circles around it.


If you don't care about music that much, then spending $500 on headphones is an absurd thought to begin with.

You are generalizing HiFiMan based on their headphones from 8 years ago. Ever since they moved to suspension headbands, they have become more comfortable than Sennheiser - less weight, bigger pads that touch your ears less, more adjustable size range, so objectively more comfortable. 

Also I didn't think anyone was mislead enough to still recommend the HD 700 lol. And you're exaggerating if you say the HD 700 walks circles around the HE-500, HE-560, or AKG K7xx for gaming. It's not THAT big a difference, an example of a headphone walking circles around another for gaming would be any of these versus some low end closed back headphone.


----------



## pez

enizio said:


> Hey guy, i decided to upgrade from “Asus headset” that is starting to fail to headphone like AKG k712 Pro or Sennheiser HD600 the problem is that don’t have any way to compare if they are comfortable for 6h of use or each one sounds better to mine ears without buying them.
> 
> 1-My budget is 270€.
> 2-Going to use them 70% music (I listen little of everything), 20% movies, series, audiobook, 10% gaming.
> 3-Got soundcard creative blaster zxr, only going to upgrade to more decent dac/amp combo after getting the new headphone and speakers.
> 4-Am from Europe, impossible to get massdrop versions and hifiman h400i for decent price here, most probably going to buy from amazon.
> 
> Thanks.
> Any suggestion are welcome.


Since music is a main priority of yours, could you expand on some of your favorite music? What do you look for in music? Detail? Vocals? Bass? The AKGs are a strong pick so far for the idea what you want to watch movies, series and audiobooks. If you are equally interested in spatial sound and good detail and great mids, I think they are still your pick.

Also, let us know some sites that you can buy/order from and we can try to make some suggestions based on that.



boredgunner said:


> If you don't care about music that much, then spending $500 on headphones is an absurd thought to begin with.
> 
> You are generalizing HiFiMan based on their headphones from 8 years ago. Ever since they moved to suspension headbands, they have become more comfortable than Sennheiser - less weight, bigger pads that touch your ears less, more adjustable size range, so objectively more comfortable.
> 
> Also I didn't think anyone was mislead enough to still recommend the HD 700 lol. And you're exaggerating if you say the HD 700 walks circles around the HE-500, HE-560, or AKG K7xx for gaming. It's not THAT big a difference, an example of a headphone walking circles around another for gaming would be any of these versus some low end closed back headphone.


I'm not. I'm comparing a HD700's comfort to that of a design that is based on a headphone they just released within the last 2 years. Yes they are comfy, but the build quality in comparison is night and day difference. If you want to get into specifics, the Hifiman are lighter and more comfortable than their predecessors. But the hinges are creaky when tension is put on them, and the connectors are *very* "made in China". The Sennheisers are lighter, ear-shaped so that the pads don't touch your ears and there are no clamp woes that existed with the HD6x0 series.

I mean with both of them sitting less than 3 feet from me and me having two different models of the HEX from two different batches....I think I'm comfortable enough to know.

I'm not expecting people to buy headphones for gaming for $500, but I'm giving an example here. Not once did I ever actually recommend the HD700. In fact, I believe I've said many times in this thread and the HEC thread that I'm very hesitant to recommend it. It's a very specific taste and it's great for very specific reasons. But it also fails in other places. The idea that you're stating a lot of this based on hear-say or based on A+B=C instead of personal experience is rather baffling. If you have heard it personally, adjust your statements to say so.

In the meantime, I stated my opinion, you disagreed with it. I'm fine that you disagree with my opinion, but you trying to invalidate my opinion because you feel differently is another thing. I'm not interested in having a wand waving contest. I've listened to a great deal of things and I try to give my opinion as unbiased as possible. As I realize that's not always possible, I always let people like Tjj interject in that aspect.


----------



## Gilles3000

enizio said:


> Hey guy, i decided to upgrade from “Asus headset” that is starting to fail to headphone like AKG k712 Pro or Sennheiser HD600 the problem is that don’t have any way to compare if they are comfortable for 6h of use or each one sounds better to mine ears without buying them.
> 
> 1-My budget is 270€.
> 2-Going to use them 70% music (I listen little of everything), 20% movies, series, audiobook, 10% gaming.
> 3-Got soundcard creative blaster zxr, only going to upgrade to more decent dac/amp combo after getting the new headphone and speakers.
> 4-Am from Europe, impossible to get massdrop versions and hifiman h400i for decent price here, most probably going to buy from amazon.
> 
> Thanks.
> Any suggestion are welcome.


Not sure when this happened, but I guess the K712 Pro is cheap now?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DCXWXEI
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00DCXWXEI

And ofcource, with amazon, if you don't like them, you can just return them no questions asked.

Edit: Honestly, at that price, I might just get the ones from the uk to replace my K7XX's that have seen better days.


----------



## Shardnax

boredgunner said:


> I've only had the K7xx. Be careful with it and it'll be fine. Abuse it and I can see it breaking.





Gilles3000 said:


> K7xx owner here too, mine has broken guides yet I've always been careful with it. Those clear plastic guides are just plain brittle and start cracking with normal use, only a matter of time before they break.
> 
> It still works with them snapped in half though, so not the end of the world, definitely not ideal either.
> 
> The poor quality wiring that just breaks off the solder joints depending on how badly it was installed by some kid in China isn't great either... Although this can be fixed by anyone with a screwdriver and a soldering iron.


I think that makes the AKGs a tough sell for gaming. Any recommendation should at least come with a warning for folks who are heavy handed.


----------



## iamjanco

Looking for headphone and dac/amp recommendations. I listen to all kinds of music, from jazz to classical, to boogie woogie, to older rock, folk, and Irish jigs. No disco nor rap, nor much of what's considered new today. If possible, I'd like something I can also use for gaming (though I'm not a heavy gamer, but I do like my shooters). 

My setup: higher end, including a Rampage VI Extreme, x299 7900 cpu, and 64GB 3200 ram. No sound card, but I'm open to using one if it will improve the experience. 

I've tried cheaper Beyers in the past (it's been a few years), but they were tight on my head and not comfortable, and ended up selling them, and haven't used anything but cheap usb headsets since (I Skype for business a lot and will couple a mike with whatever I end up getting). I also have a fairly large head (interpret that as you will). 

Budget is $2500 - $3000 or so, give or take. I've been looking at the newer Beyers (e.g., DT 1990), as well as the higher end Sennheisers, but the only thing I've had to go on doing so are reviews by those who've purchased them, as well as a number of "test" reports. As for dacs/amps, same situation, but I have been eyeing combos like the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies (2nd Gen) with WA7tp, and RME ADI-2 Pro 2-in/4-out AD/DA Converter.

Any advice would be appreciated, as this older guy is a bit lost in audio land.  TIA!

Added: Oh, and by the way, I live in the boonies, so going into town and trying something out is a bit out of the question. I'm also somewhat knowledgeable when it comes to things like tube amp circuitry, as I was weened on tubes way back when.


----------



## enizio

pez said:


> Since music is a main priority of yours, could you expand on some of your favorite music? What do you look for in music? Detail? Vocals? Bass? The AKGs are a strong pick so far for the idea what you want to watch movies, series and audiobooks. If you are equally interested in spatial sound and good detail and great mids, I think they are still your pick.
> 
> Also, let us know some sites that you can buy/order from and we can try to make some suggestions based on that.


Hiroyuki Sawano a Japanese composer and musician; his music’s are the only ones that listen daily and multiple of times in the same day, after him probably instrumental music. Sincerely don’t know the difference between Detail, Vocals and Bass from music couldn’t really tell the difference with mine headphones.

Am probably going to get them from amazon uk or es there were saw the best deals for the headphones.



Gilles3000 said:


> Not sure when this happened, but I guess the K712 Pro is cheap now?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DCXWXEI
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00DCXWXEI
> 
> And ofcource, with amazon, if you don't like them, you can just return them no questions asked.
> 
> Edit: Honestly, at that price, I might just get the ones from the uk to replace my K7XX's that have seen better days.


Thought about that but don’t have enough money now to buy the two of them and compare them, I got now the point that after so much research am stuck in doubt to each one to go.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

iamjanco said:


> Looking for headphone and dac/amp recommendations. I listen to all kinds of music, from jazz to classical, to boogie woogie, to older rock, folk, and Irish jigs. No disco nor rap, nor much of what's considered new today. If possible, I'd like something I can also use for gaming (though I'm not a heavy gamer, but I do like my shooters).
> 
> My setup: higher end, including a Rampage VI Extreme, x299 7900 cpu, and 64GB 3200 ram. No sound card, but I'm open to using one if it will improve the experience.
> 
> I've tried cheaper Beyers in the past (it's been a few years), but they were tight on my head and not comfortable, and ended up selling them, and haven't used anything but cheap usb headsets since (I Skype for business a lot and will couple a mike with whatever I end up getting). I also have a fairly large head (interpret that as you will).
> 
> Budget is $2500 - $3000 or so, give or take. I've been looking at the newer Beyers (e.g., DT 1990), as well as the higher end Sennheisers, but the only thing I've had to go on doing so are reviews by those who've purchased them, as well as a number of "test" reports. As for dacs/amps, same situation, but I have been eyeing combos like the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies (2nd Gen) with WA7tp, and RME ADI-2 Pro 2-in/4-out AD/DA Converter.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated, as this older guy is a bit lost in audio land.  TIA!
> 
> Added: Oh, and by the way, I live in the boonies, so going into town and trying something out is a bit out of the question. I'm also somewhat knowledgeable when it comes to things like tube amp circuitry, as I was weened on tubes way back when.



This is a very large and healthy budget, which means we don't have to cut corners. Therefore we need to ask a few questions. 

1: What sort of sound signature are you looking for? Do you want a warm lush sound, or a bright airy sound? I know that might be a really tough question to answer, but it will really help narrow down the options. 

2: Your budget is EASILY large enough to also add some good bookshelf speakers. Others might argue with me, but usually good bookshelf speakers will sound better than really high end headphones. Would you consider speakers or do you just want headphones?

3: Are the any size limitations on the amp and dac? I can easily recommend some dacs that are fairly large (slightly bigger than a bread box lol). 

4: Are there any hifi shops around you where you might be able to demo some gear? If you don't know or can't seem to find any, you could tell us your state or general location and we can try to find something for you.

5: If you only want headphones and nothing else, would you consider electrostatic headphones? They need some special care and consideration (you may want to do a google search before you answer), but they sound like nothing else.


----------



## boredgunner

Tjj226 Angel said:


> This is a very large and healthy budget, which means we don't have to cut corners. Therefore we need to ask a few questions.
> 
> 1: What sort of sound signature are you looking for? Do you want a warm lush sound, or a bright airy sound? I know that might be a really tough question to answer, but it will really help narrow down the options.
> 
> 2: Your budget is EASILY large enough to also add some good bookshelf speakers. Others might argue with me, but usually good bookshelf speakers will sound better than really high end headphones. Would you consider speakers or do you just want headphones?
> 
> 3: Are the any size limitations on the amp and dac? I can easily recommend some dacs that are fairly large (slightly bigger than a bread box lol).
> 
> 4: Are there any hifi shops around you where you might be able to demo some gear? If you don't know or can't seem to find any, you could tell us your state or general location and we can try to find something for you.
> 
> 5: If you only want headphones and nothing else, would you consider electrostatic headphones? They need some special care and consideration (you may want to do a google search before you answer), but they sound like nothing else.


Speaking of speakers, do you have any experience with Magnepan?


----------



## iamjanco

Tjj226 Angel said:


> This is a very large and healthy budget, which means we don't have to cut corners. Therefore we need to ask a few questions.
> 
> 1: What sort of sound signature are you looking for? Do you want a warm lush sound, or a bright airy sound? I know that might be a really tough question to answer, but it will really help narrow down the options.
> 
> 2: Your budget is EASILY large enough to also add some good bookshelf speakers. Others might argue with me, but usually good bookshelf speakers will sound better than really high end headphones. Would you consider speakers or do you just want headphones?
> 
> 3: Are the any size limitations on the amp and dac? I can easily recommend some dacs that are fairly large (slightly bigger than a bread box lol).
> 
> 4: Are there any hifi shops around you where you might be able to demo some gear? If you don't know or can't seem to find any, you could tell us your state or general location and we can try to find something for you.
> 
> 5: If you only want headphones and nothing else, would you consider electrostatic headphones? They need some special care and consideration (you may want to do a google search before you answer), but they sound like nothing else.


Thanks for the response to my query! My responses follow in the same order:

1. Warm lush sound vs. bright airy: If possible, I'd actually like a combination of both, with good response throughout the full audible range (hope that makes sense). Not too bright, not too heavy at the bottom, and great midrange. Something I could adjust when wanted, perhaps using an "equalizer" (or an app that that does something similar). Not looking for something tinny, nor boomy, out of the box, and clarity is important.

2. No bookshelf speakers needed or wanted. No need for provisions to be able to power them.

3. Size limitations? Not really, but wouldn't want to go much larger than the Woo & RME components I already mentioned. Bigger does not mean better in my case.

4. I live 110+ miles north of Albany, NY, and a little more than that south of Montreal, surrounded by the Adirondack high peaks. For all practical purposes, someplace near enough offering those sort of B&M audiophile shops is not easily accessible.

5. Not really looking for electrostatics, thanks; just a really good headphone/dac/headphone amp combo within my budget. As I implied, I like the idea of tube amps (as in the case of Woo) and am not against swapping out oem tubes for improved reach.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

boredgunner said:


> Speaking of speakers, do you have any experience with Magnepan?


Yes. I do really like magnepan speakers, but they take a LOT of power. I would say 50-100 watts per channel is optimal. And if you ever want to sell them, you better live in a very populated area where people can do local pickup, or they will sit in your house forever.


----------



## boredgunner

iamjanco said:


> Thanks for the response to my query! My responses follow in the same order:
> 
> 1. Warm lush sound vs. bright airy: If possible, I'd actually like a combination of both, with good response throughout the full audible range (hope that makes sense). Not too bright, not too heavy at the bottom, and great midrange. Something I could adjust when wanted, perhaps using an "equalizer" (or an app that that does something similar). Not looking for something tinny, nor boomy, out of the box, and clarity is important.
> 
> 2. No bookshelf speakers needed or wanted. No need for provisions to be able to power them.
> 
> 3. Size limitations? Not really, but wouldn't want to go much larger than the Woo & RME components I already mentioned. Bigger does not mean better in my case.
> 
> 4. I live 110+ miles north of Albany, NY, and a little more than that south of Montreal, surrounded by the Adirondack high peaks. For all practical purposes, someplace near enough offering those sort of B&M audiophile shops is not easily accessible.
> 
> 5. Not really looking for electrostatics, thanks; just a really good headphone/dac/headphone amp combo within my budget. As I implied, I like the idea of tube amps (as in the case of Woo) and am not against swapping out oem tubes for improved reach.


Based on that, the first headphone I want to recommend is actually the *ZMF Ori* which is well under your budget. This is one of the most well rounded headphones that can do well with all genres and isn't lacking in any frequency range I think, the only other headphones I've used that I can say this about are the ZMF Blackwood, HiFiMan HE1000, Stax SR-007, and Stax SR-009.

I would choose the ZMF Ori over the Audeze LCD-3 any day of the week, below the LCD-4 Audeze headphones tend to give up a bit in upper mids which detracts from some music. And with the ZMF you get similar incredible bass and lower mids (the former you cannot get out of dynamic headphones). But both of these sound FAR more natural than anything from Beyerdynamic, also far more natural than any Sennheiser for rock. The Ori is more of an all-rounder than any Sennheiser I think, not all will agree but the HD 800 and HD 800S sound too thin and weak for rock. If you listen to mostly classical though (as in classical is your main focus), then ignore all this and get the *Sennheiser HD 800S* instead. Let me just give my opinion for every genre you listed:

- Jazz = All of these should be very good for it
- Classical = Sennheiser HD 800S
- Boogie Woogie = no clue lol
- Rock = ZMF Ori
- Folk = All of these should be very good for it, people would be split between the openness and detail of the HD 800S and the tonality of the Ori
- Irish jigs = no clue

Other interesting alternatives which I lack experience with are the *ZMF Eikon* and *ZMF Auteur*. I'll be getting an Eikon in a few months, haven't heard either yet, but both are dynamic headphones designed to give a more full bodied sound with deeper bass extension than other dynamics, more like planars. They use the same driver but the Auteur is almost fully open back and has some additional tweaks. The Eikon has more sub-bass response, Auteur is more linear and detailed and of course open (not that closed back ZMF headphones sound congested, quite the opposite). The HD 800S ought to be more detailed and open than both, but with weaker bass and maybe thinner sound? I would expect that, cannot validate it yet.

So yeah not an easy decision... if the HiFiMan HE-6 were still around, it would be an easy decision. I'll emphasize again that the ZMF Ori is the most well rounded sub $2,000 non-electrostatic headphone I know of, it is incredible at how good it is for everything. But there is still some compromise no matter what you choose here: if you choose the Ori, you compromise a bit for classical, but if you choose the Sennheiser HD 800S you will compromise a lot for rock. The Ori's compromise is the lesser of two evils though, even for complex large classical songs it does well, giving every instrument its own space without sounding congested (hard to believe for a mostly closed back headphone) and the instruments will sound natural. The HD 800S will just place instruments even better, sound much more open, and also sound much more detailed with these songs, but it'll sound relatively thin and weak for rock versus ZMF or Audeze.

Not sure how much the ZMF Auteur compromises... too bad auditioning is out of the question for you. As for choosing an amp/DAC, if you go with the ZMF Auteur then I would say get the Chord Mojo and Schiit Lyr 3. These are fine choices for the ZMF Eikon and Ori too, though you can splurge a bit more on one of those like a Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 2. If you go with a Sennheiser HD 800S however, you could just get *this DAC/amp* (I doubt the DAC is really good but this can always be upgraded later).



Tjj226 Angel said:


> Yes. I do really like magnepan speakers, but they take a LOT of power. I would say 50-100 watts per channel is optimal. And if you ever want to sell them, you better live in a very populated area where people can do local pickup, or they will sit in your house forever.


I like the price of the Magnepans too. Any thoughts on *this amp?* Looks interesting, getting a lot of praise and a good price.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

iamjanco said:


> Thanks for the response to my query! My responses follow in the same order:
> 
> 1. Warm lush sound vs. bright airy: If possible, I'd actually like a combination of both, with good response throughout the full audible range (hope that makes sense). Not too bright, not too heavy at the bottom, and great midrange. Something I could adjust when wanted, perhaps using an "equalizer" (or an app that that does something similar). Not looking for something tinny, nor boomy, out of the box, and clarity is important.
> 
> 2. No bookshelf speakers needed or wanted. No need for provisions to be able to power them.
> 
> 3. Size limitations? Not really, but wouldn't want to go much larger than the Woo & RME components I already mentioned. Bigger does not mean better in my case.
> 
> 4. I live 110+ miles north of Albany, NY, and a little more than that south of Montreal, surrounded by the Adirondack high peaks. For all practical purposes, someplace near enough offering those sort of B&M audiophile shops is not easily accessible.
> 
> 5. Not really looking for electrostatics, thanks; just a really good headphone/dac/headphone amp combo within my budget. As I implied, I like the idea of tube amps (as in the case of Woo) and am not against swapping out oem tubes for improved reach.




Well at your budget, clarity isn't too much of an issue. Your standard HD800 is pretty bright and lacks some bass. The Audeze LCD-2 is very warm and bassy, but might lack the articulation of the hD800. The only happy medium I know of is the hifiman HEX and sadly one guy here (pez) has been having nothing but build quality issues with his pair of HEXs. All these headsphones are perfectly clear and have full range, but they have their own strengths and weaknesses. 

Personally I would go with the LCD-2s. They just have a bit more warmth and soul that most other headphones don't have. I also personally think they are a bit more comfortable than most headphones out there. But those two points are highly subjective, so take them with a grain of salt. 

Also, I would highly advise you to not buy anything from woo audio. I have a lot of custom tube gear, so I don't want you to shy away from tubes, but woo audio is just plain chinese crap. Plain and simple. They are nicer to look at than to listen to. 

If it were me, and I had to put together a headphone system, I would get the LCD-2s, the antique sound lab MG HEAD DT OTL MKIII for the amp, and a jolida glass dac 3 with upgraded output capacitors. 

I do think we can maybe do better than that, but that might give you a good system to look at and do some quick research on. From here we can at least tweak the system to fit what you want.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

boredgunner said:


> Not sure how much the ZMF Auteur compromises... too bad auditioning is out of the question for you. As for choosing an amp/DAC, if you go with the ZMF Auteur then I would say get the Chord Mojo and Schiit Lyr 3. These are fine choices for the ZMF Eikon and Ori too, though you can splurge a bit more on one of those like a Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 2. If you go with a Sennheiser HD 800S however, you could just get *this DAC/amp* (I doubt the DAC is really good but this can always be upgraded later).
> 
> 
> 
> I like the price of the Magnepans too. Any thoughts on *this amp?* Looks interesting, getting a lot of praise and a good price.


1: Schiit lyr 3 is out. That thing is a piece of junk that should have never seen the light of day. The Woo audio products are better, and I still think woo audio is junk. 

2: A typical belcanto dac sounds better than the holo audio spring dac. And the fact that they stuck jensen caps in the power supply without upgrading their output capacitors (which are far more important) tells me why I have never liked their dacs lol. 

3: I finally heard the quad amp. Not impressed. I love quad stuff so I was really shocked that this thing was as bright as it was. Something was done to cut cost which really killed this amp. And I know it can sound a lot better because a friend of mine built a circuit very similar to the quad amp and it sounded bloody fantastic. Soooooooo IDK. 

4: as for that amp you showed me......eh. What actually is the price?


----------



## boredgunner

Tjj226 Angel said:


> 1: Schiit lyr 3 is out. That thing is a piece of junk that should have never seen the light of day. The Woo audio products are better, and I still think woo audio is junk.
> 
> 2: A typical belcanto dac sounds better than the holo audio spring dac. And the fact that they stuck jensen caps in the power supply without upgrading their output capacitors (which are far more important) tells me why I have never liked their dacs lol.
> 
> 3: I finally heard the quad amp. Not impressed. I love quad stuff so I was really shocked that this thing was as bright as it was. Something was done to cut cost which really killed this amp. And I know it can sound a lot better because a friend of mine built a circuit very similar to the quad amp and it sounded bloody fantastic. Soooooooo IDK.
> 
> 4: as for that amp you showed me......eh. What actually is the price?


2. I take it you mean present day Bel Cantos. Haven't much experience with them myself.

3. Shocked about the Quad. Think tube rolling can save it? I'd redact that then and consider a Darkvoice 337 or maybe the Antique Sound Labs DT Head MKIII. What is your issue with the Lyr 3?

4. $2400-2600. I also noticed the manufacturer seems a bit stingy when it comes to providing details about it.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

boredgunner said:


> 2. I take it you mean present day Bel Cantos. Haven't much experience with them myself.
> 
> 3. Shocked about the Quad. Think tube rolling can save it? I'd redact that then and consider a Darkvoice 337 or maybe the Antique Sound Labs DT Head MKIII. What is your issue with the Lyr 3?
> 
> 4. $2400-2600. I also noticed the manufacturer seems a bit stingy when it comes to providing details about it.


Darkvoice 337? Dude have you even heard any of these amps IRL? A darkvoice might work for an HD600 but its not going to work what so ever for anything at the higher end level of headphones. 

If that KT120 amp is only 2400 bucks, something is wrong with it. I would be more than willing to bet that they are using chinese transformers. 

Honestly, as much as I love magnepans, they are just too much of a headache. You would be WAY better off with a pair of snell J 3s (which is what I actually use) and a good single ended triode amp.


----------



## iamjanco

boredgunner said:


> Based on that, the first headphone I want to recommend is actually the *ZMF Ori* which is well under your budget. This is one of the most well rounded headphones that can do well with all genres and isn't lacking in any frequency range I think, the only other headphones I've used that I can say this about are the ZMF Blackwood, HiFiMan HE1000, Stax SR-007, and Stax SR-009.
> 
> I would choose the ZMF Ori over the Audeze LCD-3 any day of the week, below the LCD-4 Audeze headphones tend to give up a bit in upper mids which detracts from some music. And with the ZMF you get similar incredible bass and lower mids (the former you cannot get out of dynamic headphones). But both of these sound FAR more natural than anything from Beyerdynamic, also far more natural than any Sennheiser for rock. The Ori is more of an all-rounder than any Sennheiser I think, not all will agree but the HD 800 and HD 800S sound too thin and weak for rock. If you listen to mostly classical though (as in classical is your main focus), then ignore all this and get the *Sennheiser HD 800S* instead. Let me just give my opinion for every genre you listed:
> 
> - Jazz = All of these should be very good for it
> - Classical = Sennheiser HD 800S
> - Boogie Woogie = no clue lol
> - Rock = ZMF Ori
> - Folk = All of these should be very good for it, people would be split between the openness and detail of the HD 800S and the tonality of the Ori
> - Irish jigs = no clue
> 
> Other interesting alternatives which I lack experience with are the *ZMF Eikon* and *ZMF Auteur*. I'll be getting an Eikon in a few months, haven't heard either yet, but both are dynamic headphones designed to give a more full bodied sound with deeper bass extension than other dynamics, more like planars. They use the same driver but the Auteur is almost fully open back and has some additional tweaks. The Eikon has more sub-bass response, Auteur is more linear and detailed and of course open (not that closed back ZMF headphones sound congested, quite the opposite). The HD 800S ought to be more detailed and open than both, but with weaker bass and maybe thinner sound? I would expect that, cannot validate it yet.
> 
> So yeah not an easy decision... if the HiFiMan HE-6 were still around, it would be an easy decision. I'll emphasize again that the ZMF Ori is the most well rounded sub $2,000 non-electrostatic headphone I know of, it is incredible at how good it is for everything. But there is still some compromise no matter what you choose here: if you choose the Ori, you compromise a bit for classical, but if you choose the Sennheiser HD 800S you will compromise a lot for rock. The Ori's compromise is the lesser of two evils though, even for complex large classical songs it does well, giving every instrument its own space without sounding congested (hard to believe for a mostly closed back headphone) and the instruments will sound natural. The HD 800S will just place instruments even better, sound much more open, and also sound much more detailed with these songs, but it'll sound relatively thin and weak for rock versus ZMF or Audeze.
> 
> Not sure how much the ZMF Auteur compromises... too bad auditioning is out of the question for you. As for choosing an amp/DAC, if you go with the ZMF Auteur then I would say get the Chord Mojo and Schiit Lyr 3. These are fine choices for the ZMF Eikon and Ori too, though you can splurge a bit more on one of those like a Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 2. If you go with a Sennheiser HD 800S however, you could just get *this DAC/amp* (I doubt the DAC is really good but this can always be upgraded later).





Tjj226 Angel said:


> Well at your budget, clarity isn't too much of an issue. Your standard HD800 is pretty bright and lacks some bass. The Audeze LCD-2 is very warm and bassy, but might lack the articulation of the hD800. The only happy medium I know of is the hifiman HEX and sadly one guy here (pez) has been having nothing but build quality issues with his pair of HEXs. All these headsphones are perfectly clear and have full range, but they have their own strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Personally I would go with the LCD-2s. They just have a bit more warmth and soul that most other headphones don't have. I also personally think they are a bit more comfortable than most headphones out there. But those two points are highly subjective, so take them with a grain of salt.
> 
> Also, I would highly advise you to not buy anything from woo audio. I have a lot of custom tube gear, so I don't want you to shy away from tubes, but woo audio is just plain chinese crap. Plain and simple. They are nicer to look at than to listen to.
> 
> If it were me, and I had to put together a headphone system, I would get the LCD-2s, the antique sound lab MG HEAD DT OTL MKIII for the amp, and a jolida glass dac 3 with upgraded output capacitors.
> 
> I do think we can maybe do better than that, but that might give you a good system to look at and do some quick research on. From here we can at least tweak the system to fit what you want.


Thanks, both of you, very much.  I'm going to take some time to review your recommendations, and thanks for the heads up about (e.g.) Woo. I do wish I could just go into the city (e.g., like NYC) and audition your recommendations, but it's a 320 mile ride each way. I might do that anyway, but don't see being about to do so for 6-8 or more weeks (work's that busy lately).


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

iamjanco said:


> Thanks, both of you, very much.  I'm going to take some time to review your recommendations, and thanks for the heads up about (e.g.) Woo. I do wish I could just go into the city (e.g., like NYC) and audition your recommendations, but it's a 320 mile ride each way. I might do that anyway, but don't see being about to do so for 6-8 or more weeks (work's that busy lately).


After re-reading one of your posts, I see that you are familiar with tube circuitry? Why not just build your own headphone amp? Any basic tube circuit out there that you build yourself is pretty much going to be better than anything you can buy. Amp manufacturers are limited to what they can build for big production runs, but you can pretty much build what ever you want.


----------



## iamjanco

Tjj226 Angel said:


> After re-reading one of your posts, I see that you are familiar with tube circuitry? Why not just build your own headphone amp? Any basic tube circuit out there that you build yourself is pretty much going to be better than anything you can buy. Amp manufacturers are limited to what they can build for big production runs, but you can pretty much build what ever you want.


That's actually a pretty good idea, thanks! I might even go for a readily available kit like the *Elekit TU-8200DX* that could be tweaked to my heart's desire, depending on the music I wanted to listen to. I've pretty much got everything I need too wise to put something together, and really am not in pursuit of instantaneous gratification. 

diyaudio looks like a good place to dig into the possibilities further. Much appreciated.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

iamjanco said:


> That's actually a pretty good idea, thanks! I might even go for a readily available kit like the *Elekit TU-8200DX* that could be tweaked to my heart's desire, depending on the music I wanted to listen to. I've pretty much got everything I need too wise to put something together, and really am not in pursuit of instantaneous gratification.
> 
> diyaudio looks like a good place to dig into the possibilities further. Much appreciated.


I will also say that if you do build your own tube amp that the LCD-2s would be a good headphone. They can handle and actually like a fair bit of power and you can tweak the sound of the amp to match the headphones a lot easier. 

If you want to build a kit, bottlehead has some great kits. The Bottlehead Kaiju or the Stereomour would be a very cool option and the transformers they sell with the kits are actually very good unlike elekit. 

Elekit kits are good too, but you really need to replace some of the parts. I just heard one of the limited run 300b kits they sold where someone had replaced the transformers with some lundhal transformers and it blew me away with the LCD-2s. Absolutely incredible. https://www.tubedepot.com/products/elekit-tu-8600-300b-se-tube-amplifier-kit-limited-run

Just keep in mind that by the time he was done modding the amp, he was probably looking at 2K all in just for the amp. If that is something that interests you, I could try to put you in contact with the guy. 

But if you can, I URGE you to make your own amp from scratch. Even if you build something from a schematic just floating around online, you will be so much further ahead than most people when it comes to audio. Plus it will be a fair bit cheaper too. A good el84 amp could be built for about 400-500 bucks very easily, and that is including all sorts of fancy pants audio parts if you believe in that sort of thing.


----------



## mike34

hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿ 

i dont know which to buy?

what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿ ? and which is the best?
i want the soundcard for games, music and movies

so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿?

i am playing games ,, music and movies/

in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
i am playing all the kind of games././if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?

and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers? 

Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?


----------



## mike34

if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?

and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers? 

Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿
> 
> i dont know which to buy?
> 
> what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿ ? and which is the best?
> i want the soundcard for games, music and movies
> 
> so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
> Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿?
> 
> i am playing games ,, music and movies/
> 
> in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
> i am playing all the kind of games././if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?
> 
> and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers?
> 
> Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?


IDK how many times I have already told you the answer to your question. 

GET THE STX ESSENCE 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿
> 
> i dont know which to buy?
> 
> what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿ ? and which is the best?
> i want the soundcard for games, music and movies
> 
> so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
> Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿?
> 
> i am playing games ,, music and movies/
> 
> in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
> i am playing all the kind of games././if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?
> 
> and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers?
> 
> Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?


essence stx 2. done.


----------



## mike34

can someone help me please?


----------



## mike34

why to buy Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿?

and not to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX?


can you tell me please/?
for to buy asus stx i must know the reasons for to buy this soynd card?

asus stx is older card than Asus Strix Raid DLX??


----------



## mike34

but why you say that Asus Essence S﻿TX II 7.1﻿ that is better from Asus Strix Raid DLX?


----------



## mike34

some people told me not to buy asus stx 2.7.1

some people told me to buy dlx

i am confused now 

can you give me informations why you are telling me to buy asus stx and not to buy dlx which is newest card from asus stx.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Stop multiposting, the edit button exists for a reason!

STX 2:
+ Good quality stuff (hardware)
+/- Used to have good 3rd-party driver development. Look below.
- Driver support is deader than dead as C-Media dropped the chipset from their driver development.
- Some bugs still exist, like the banshee scream. Had the banshee scream on my Xonar D1 which uses same C-Media chip, and people like totally dubbed had it too.

Strix soundcards:
- Quality not known as few people own the card and there are no measurements to look at. Most people brand it as garbage card because of how junky the drivers were at launch (and gaming branded stuff is usually perceived as garbage if not proven otherwise).
- Driver support is alive-ish, but no 3rd-party driver development.
- Too expensive, Creative AE-5 is in the same price bracket


----------



## mike34

so to buy STX 2?? 7.1?

and one more question why the most people say that dlx is garbage card?

because i read some reviews for dlx and the reviews had positive numbers for lx..


if i buy asus stx 2 7.1 will this card cover me in the sound of pc games,,, watching movies and listen music??

will it covers me in these 3 things??

or you believe that dlx is better for pc games and watching movies and listen music???? from asus stx 2 7.1?


----------



## Gilles3000

Honestly, I think you personally are better off just using on-board audio...


----------



## mike34

can someone help me please/?


----------



## mike34

Creative AE-5 is better than Strix dlx and asus stx ii 7.1??


----------



## Shardnax

It's up to you to make a decision. You've gotten multiple answers.




Tiihokatti said:


> Stop multiposting, the edit button exists for a reason!
> 
> STX 2:
> + Good quality stuff (hardware)
> +/- Used to have good 3rd-party driver development. Look below.
> - Driver support is deader than dead as C-Media dropped the chipset from their driver development.
> - Some bugs still exist, like the banshee scream. Had the banshee scream on my Xonar D1 which uses same C-Media chip, and people like totally dubbed had it too.
> 
> Strix soundcards:
> - Quality not known as few people own the card and there are no measurements to look at. Most people brand it as garbage card because of how junky the drivers were at launch (and gaming branded stuff is usually perceived as garbage if not proven otherwise).
> - Driver support is alive-ish, but no 3rd-party driver development.
> - Too expensive, Creative AE-5 is in the same price bracket


Does the noise happen at random? I can trigger something similar with my Essence ST by using ASIO playback, starting certain software while ASIO is running, then closing the ASIO player.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Shardnax said:


> It's up to you to make a decision. You've gotten multiple answers.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the noise happen at random? I can trigger something similar with my Essence ST by using ASIO playback, starting certain software while ASIO is running, then closing the ASIO player.


Happens mostly while streaming, be it Youtube or other embedded video streams. Also occurs while using video player like MPCHC or VLC. And sometimes happens while gaming.


----------



## mike34

look because i want to buy one from these 3 

i want to tell me 

which to choose??STX 2 or Sound Card Asus Strix Raid DLX 7.1 Pcie SET With Audiophile-grade‎ or 
Creative AE-5

because someone said this and i want to tell me if its true


someone said that Sound BlasterX AE-5 has pretty much everything, regardless if you want to have both speakers and headphones and it has one of the best headphone outputs of any sound card.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crea...aming-sound-card-70sb174000000-sc-104-cl.html

Essence STX II is built around very old PCI sound chip used through PCI-e bridge chip.
So hope for driver supports relies also on C-Media's interest on supporting that old sound chip.... With C-Media not even offering Win10 drivers directly:
https://www.cmedia.com.tw/support/download_center/10
Also its headphone output is based onto TPA6120 with typical 10 ohm output impedance making it technically not greatest for low impedance headphones.
While AE-5 has 1 ohm output impedance quaranteeing ideal damping factor and insignificant frequency response changes with any headphone.
Neither is Dolby Heaphone of those Xonars that great for headphone gaming.

Strix Raid DLX has exactly same TPA6120 and 10 ohm output impedance losing to SBX AE-5.
Though compared to facepalm level 100 ohm output impedance of lower Strix Raid Pro/Soar it would be stellar.
(those are surely short circuit protected in case you would like to jam iron nail into headphone output...)


THe sound blaster AE-5 would be the best choice due to it being an better sound card in regards to sound performance, Functionally and driver support. Since creative is doing an great job fixing issues and listening to feedback. The Headphone Amp on the AE-5 is indeed stronger then the headphone amp on both the STX and strix DLX. Not the mention both of the Asus has poor virtual surround headphone function which does an poor job when your gaming or watching movies. The function on the Sound blaster AE-5 is worlds better then Dolby headphone and what ever asus is using on the strix series. I also an gamer too and I found using the Headphone (7.1) output setting together with acoustic engine surround setting at 67% to be an wonderful experience in games and movies also. Speaking of movie's the AE-5 does support Blu-ray audio's DTS-HD and DD-MA over analog, as long you are using WinDvd, Something which both the STX II and Strix DLX can't do, as they will down-mix the formats down to 16bit/48khz. 

To stop my self from going on and on, over all AE-5 sound great with all 3, music, gaming and movies not to mention have an special mode for by passes the DSP of the AE-5, called Direct output mode, if you wish to just use the Dac directly, which grants access to the 32bit/384khz. Where in DSP mode it's 32bit/192khz.

Also the molex on the card is just for the RGB lights on the card, it doesn't has to be plugged into the card, the software does give you the option to disable the RGB lights also.

for this reason i dont know which to buy


----------



## mike34

and for this reason i want to help me to choose from these 3


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> and for this reason i want to help me to choose from these 3


ASUS ESSENCE STX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OCN KEEPS PREVENTING ME FROM ANSWERING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mike34

why you say that ASUS ESSENCE STX is better?? from Creative AE-5


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> why you say that ASUS ESSENCE STX is better?? from Creative AE-5


Yes. Get the stx, period, end of story. 

Seriously, I keep getting database errors when I quote you, so IDK how much information I can give you other than the straight answer.


----------



## mike34

but stx has outdated drivers


----------



## mike34

where i will find drivers for stx 2 7.1?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> but stx has outdated drivers


All of those sound cards have BS drivers and will inevitably cause issues.

If you want better sound quality than what the sound cards can give you and you are willing to give up 5.1 speakers, you can get an external dac and headphone amp which will give you wayyyyyy better sound quality on headphones. 

But if you want a simple all around solution, just get the stx 2.


----------



## Gilles3000

I wasn't kidding when I said stick to onboard for your speakers, soundcards just aren't great in general, definitely more trouble than they're worth.

Otherwise if you insist on 5.1 surround, get a receiver that supports it.


----------



## Tiihokatti

Gilles3000 said:


> I wasn't kidding when I said stick to onboard for your speakers, soundcards just aren't great in general, definitely more trouble than they're worth.
> 
> Otherwise if you insist on 5.1 surround, get a receiver that supports it.


Not to mention that 5.1 speaker setups that use analog connection are pretty much an endangered species these days. There are only Logitech, Creative and maybe Edifier 5.1 speakers available in the market, and only 1 or 2 of the speakers can be barely categorized as decent. Which is why the onboard is going to be more than enough for those generic 5.1 PC-speaker setups.


----------



## badtaylorx

Shardnax said:


> It's up to you to make a decision. You've gotten multiple answers.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the noise happen at random? I can trigger something similar with my Essence ST by using ASIO playback, starting certain software while ASIO is running, then closing the ASIO player.


I just found this out myself, 

can you tell me what kind of system you're running? I've switched to a RYZEN 2700x z370 platform, and have had issues. If you're running similar, go for the Creative. (full disclosure, i have skin in this decision) @ that price, the stx is the better deal. (if you have an intel (or older amd) rig)

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1036071

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...en-installing-driver-of-ESSENCE-STX-II/page16


----------



## mike34

hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 

i dont know which to buy?

what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 ? and which is the best?
i want the soundcard for games, music and movies

so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1? or 
Sound BlasterX AE-5??

i am playing games ,, music and movies/

in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
i am playing all the kind of games././

WHAT IS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1?? and Sound BlasterX AE-5??
.if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?

and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers? 

Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?

so which soundcard to buy from these 3??
Strix Raid DLX or Essence STX II or Sound BlasterX AE-5??

some people say that Strix Raid DLX is good

another people say that is garbage

some another people say that asus stx 2.7.1 is very good

some people say that is not good

so from these 3 which one is the best??

do you believe that Soundblaster AE-5 is better than asus stx ii 7.1 and asus dlx??
can you tell me why is better from these 3?

i am asking because i dont know

the most people say that dlx is garbage product
another people say that asus stx 7.1 is old and has problems with drivers

some another people say that soynblaster AE-5 has problems with the souroynd and the bass and with the volume..

for this i dont which to buy?

can you tell me please which to buy please?? from these 3??


----------



## mike34

but stx 7.1 has outdated drivers


----------



## pez

mike34 said:


> hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1
> 
> i dont know which to buy?
> 
> what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 ? and which is the best?
> i want the soundcard for games, music and movies
> 
> so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
> Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1? or
> Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> i am playing games ,, music and movies/
> 
> in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
> i am playing all the kind of games././
> 
> WHAT IS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1?? and Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> .if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?
> 
> and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers?
> 
> Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?
> 
> so which soundcard to buy from these 3??
> Strix Raid DLX or Essence STX II or Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> some people say that Strix Raid DLX is good
> 
> another people say that is garbage
> 
> some another people say that asus stx 2.7.1 is very good
> 
> some people say that is not good
> 
> so from these 3 which one is the best??
> 
> do you believe that Soundblaster AE-5 is better than asus stx ii 7.1 and asus dlx??
> can you tell me why is better from these 3?
> 
> i am asking because i dont know
> 
> the most people say that dlx is garbage product
> another people say that asus stx 7.1 is old and has problems with drivers
> 
> some another people say that soynblaster AE-5 has problems with the souroynd and the bass and with the volume..
> 
> for this i dont which to buy?
> 
> can you tell me please which to buy please?? from these 3??





mike34 said:


> but stx 7.1 has outdated drivers


You have been answered several times here. As much as I appreciate help and condone people being helped, you're spamming at this point. Take the information you've received at this point and make a decision. If not, I'm going to have you removed from being able to post in this thread.


----------



## badtaylorx

mike34 said:


> hi i want to buy one new soundcard and i am between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1
> 
> i dont know which to buy?
> 
> what is the difference between Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 ? and which is the best?
> i want the soundcard for games, music and movies
> 
> so which soundcard are you suggested me to buy?
> Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1? or
> Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> i am playing games ,, music and movies/
> 
> in music i am hearing everything trance house all the kind of music ..
> i am playing all the kind of games././
> 
> WHAT IS THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN Asus Strix Raid DLX or Asus Essence STX II 7.1?? and Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> .if i buy Asus Strix Raid DLX will it be good for music and movies?? will i hear in songs very clear and beauty sound?
> 
> and i have one more question with Asus Strix Raid DLX can i put and one custom 5.1 speakers?
> 
> Asus Strix Raid DLX supports only gaming headsets? or it suports all the kind of headsets?
> 
> so which soundcard to buy from these 3??
> Strix Raid DLX or Essence STX II or Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> some people say that Strix Raid DLX is good
> 
> another people say that is garbage
> 
> some another people say that asus stx 2.7.1 is very good
> 
> some people say that is not good
> 
> so from these 3 which one is the best??
> 
> do you believe that Soundblaster AE-5 is better than asus stx ii 7.1 and asus dlx??
> can you tell me why is better from these 3?
> 
> i am asking because i dont know
> 
> the most people say that dlx is garbage product
> another people say that asus stx 7.1 is old and has problems with drivers
> 
> some another people say that soynblaster AE-5 has problems with the souroynd and the bass and with the volume..
> 
> for this i dont which to buy?
> 
> can you tell me please which to buy please?? from these 3??


If you have a ryzen system, do not even consider the STX II. 

If you have an intel system it cant be bested. I do feel you're missing an option though.

https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blaster-x7


----------



## Tiihokatti

badtaylorx said:


> If you have a ryzen system, do not even consider the STX II.
> 
> If you have an intel system it cant be bested. I do feel you're missing an option though.
> 
> https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blaster-x7


Actually my system is intel (Z77 extreme4 + i5-3570k), and it has the notorious banshee scream bug with Xonar D1 (same bug is in D1, DX, STX, STX II, etc. cards that use the same chipset). So even for Intel I would buy the STX from a shop with good return policy.


----------



## Shardnax

badtaylorx said:


> I just found this out myself,
> 
> can you tell me what kind of system you're running? I've switched to a RYZEN 2700x z370 platform, and have had issues. If you're running similar, go for the Creative. (full disclosure, i have skin in this decision) @ that price, the stx is the better deal. (if you have an intel (or older amd) rig)
> 
> https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1036071
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...en-installing-driver-of-ESSENCE-STX-II/page16


I planned on slotting it into a Ryzen build sometime next year, so much for that .


----------



## ObiWanShinob1

might wanna add vmoda M100. best deal ever for the price.


----------



## mike34

you believe that Asus Essence STX II 7.1 is better in all the things from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> you believe that Asus Essence STX II 7.1 is better in all the things from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??


Yes, we all believe that.


----------



## mike34

at least before i buy the Asus Essence STX II 7.1
can you tell me please?? why Asus Essence STX II 7.1 is better in all the things from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??

to tell me the reasons why this card is better from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> at least before i buy the Asus Essence STX II 7.1
> can you tell me please?? why Asus Essence STX II 7.1 is better in all the things from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> to tell me the reasons why this card is better from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5?


The STX is specifically designed for hifi audio. Everything else is made primarily for gaming. 

The STX is about the best card you can get without going into expensive recording studio sound cards.


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## JackCY

Considering the prices of STX II and the parts it uses for that price you might as well go to more professional products really. Would certainly recommend to buy from a place where you can easily return as the difference between good onboard with amp and PCIe soundcard with amp is indistinguishable to ears, making it a worthless expensive sidegrade.


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## mike34

you said that The STX is specifically designed for hifi audio


the Asus Essence STX II 7.1 for games will be as good as Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??

will i hear all the effects and all the things in games as i would hear with Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??


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## mike34

or you believe for gaming is better Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 from Asus Essence STX II 7.1??


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## fursko

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohm, 250ohm = bad soundstage ??? lol. Who did this review. I used tons of headphones. This one has best soundstage for a closed back headphone.


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## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> you said that The STX is specifically designed for hifi audio
> 
> 
> the Asus Essence STX II 7.1 for games will be as good as Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??
> 
> will i hear all the effects and all the things in games as i would hear with Asus Strix Raid DLX and Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5??


Yeup. 

Trust me, we are not idiots here. When we tell you to buy the stx 2, we mean literally stop worrying about it and buy the darn thing already. Everything else kinda sucks for one reason or another.


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## Gilles3000

mike34 said:


> snip


And maybe stop double posting already, its pretty annoying. The "Edit" button is there for a reason.


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## mike34

look i am not profecional music maker.. i am not music producer

as person i am looking one soundcard for to play games listening music and movies.

i dont know from SNR (and other technical values)

i want one soyncard to have good software


i want one from these souncards (asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and soynblaster AE-5) to be good in these 3 things play games listening music and movies

to have good drivers and support. 

also i want one from these souncards (asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and soynblaster AE-5) for to use with headphones

also can you sugested me and one Amp for headphones ( i have now game zero headphones)

also i want to tell me what is your opinion about asus Strix Raid DLX

first i was thinking to buy asus Strix Raid DLX but some people told me that dlx is not good souncard and some people told me to buy soynblaster AE-5 and not asus Strix Raid DLX

but in the reviews of asus Strix Raid DLX it has positive such as soynblaster AE-5

some another people told me to buy Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and not soynblaster AE-5 and not asus Strix Raid DLX for games music and movies

so which of these 3 are the best?

also i want this soundcard and for my headphones but also and for my custom 5.1 speaker 
which is
Denon AVR-X3400H
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision....YaApWfEALw_wcB


SUBWOOFER:
SVS PB-2000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000


dali Zensor 3 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-570312.../dp/B00E0I7B14




SURROUND: Dali Zensor 1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-Zensor.../dp/B0057X5KF0





: Dali Zensor Vokal
https://www.whathifi.com/dali/263123/overview


some people say that asus stx 7.1 it will not be good for games
is it true??


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## mike34

have you tested soynblaster AE-5 and Asus Strix Raid DLX?

i mean have you know that Asus Essence STX II 7.1 performs better from soynblaster AE-5 and Asus Strix Raid DLX in gaming section?


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## mike34

the problem is that the chip from asus stx 7.1 is very old >>

from soynblaster A5?


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## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> Denon Receiver


If you have a receiver like that, then you have just wasted everyone's time because a sound card wont make 1 bit of difference. 

Use a optical cable from your PC to your receiver for your speakers. Receivers aren't the best headphone amps in the world, so for headphones, get the schiit magni and modi stack. It will be better for music and gaming, and what ever else you could think of. It runs off USB info, so you don't even need to mess with drivers at all. 

Full stop. Period. End of story. 

If you really want to waste your money on a sound card and want to learn all of this the hard way, your best bet is the STX2 like we have all said about 100 times each. Yes it will work well for gaming. Yes it is particularly good at music and movies. If you don't like that answer, then go spam some other forum until you get an answer you like. 

Now I am going to tell you again. DO NOT ASK YOUR QUESTION AGAIN. You have wasted everyone's time and you are spamming like crazy. 

We have all given you our opinions and we have basically handed you the answers to your questions on a silver platter. 

If you keep spamming, I will ask that a mod ban your account from OCN and remove all of your posts from the audio section.


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## mike34

i understand and thanks for the help.. 
now i have one last question this schiit magni and modi stack what are??

are surround equiment?? because i dont know

because i have headphones 


this schiit magni and modi stack are dac headphones??


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## Tjj226 Angel

mike34 said:


> i understand and thanks for the help..
> now i have one last question this schiit magni and modi stack what are??
> 
> are surround equiment?? because i dont know
> 
> because i have headphones
> 
> 
> this schiit magni and modi stack are dac headphones??


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Schiit+magni+and+modi


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## mike34

ok thanks


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## Skagi

ATH-AD700 owner here.

They are getting real old, I'm beginning the think one of the speakers is dying too as it rattles at high volume certain bass. The pads are pretty much gone. They are a great set of headphones though and I couldn't be happier with my purchase ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO now. 

It is time to move on to something else I think. I love audio technica, does anyone have any opinions about them today? the M50's and AD700x's seem remarkably similar to the headphones they were selling a while back. I don't necessarily want anything better I just want something fresh. Open ear I'm currently on the fence with, while I love it, it also makes background noise, like an air conditioner, ruin a lot of the audio.


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## boredgunner

Skagi said:


> ATH-AD700 owner here.
> 
> They are getting real old, I'm beginning the think one of the speakers is dying too as it rattles at high volume certain bass. The pads are pretty much gone. They are a great set of headphones though and I couldn't be happier with my purchase ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO now.
> 
> It is time to move on to something else I think. I love audio technica, does anyone have any opinions about them today? the M50's and AD700x's seem remarkably similar to the headphones they were selling a while back. I don't necessarily want anything better I just want something fresh. Open ear I'm currently on the fence with, while I love it, it also makes background noise, like an air conditioner, ruin a lot of the audio.


The ATH-AD700X is great for gaming. If I recall correctly, build quality might be slightly shoddier in places since it's not made in Japan like the AD700, but the sound is said to be a bit more balanced and neutral.

If you have a decent sound card and want a step up, go for the AKG K7xx. Better sound stage/positional sound, and much more/better bass. And much more detailed sound and extended frequencies in general, just a tier or tier and a half above.


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## pez

Rattle could be coming from debris or hair in the drive. You could give it a quick (and gentle) blow to see if you can dislodge anything. I've had that issue with a lot of my open headphones since I have long hair. If you can see them sticking out, tweezers have worked the best to get fine hairs out, for me.

What budget are you looking at? Are you running the AD700s out of an amp+DAC currently?


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## Skagi

pez said:


> Rattle could be coming from debris or hair in the drive. You could give it a quick (and gentle) blow to see if you can dislodge anything. I've had that issue with a lot of my open headphones since I have long hair. If you can see them sticking out, tweezers have worked the best to get fine hairs out, for me.
> 
> What budget are you looking at? Are you running the AD700s out of an amp+DAC currently?


I will give them a good clean, rewire and put a new set of ear pads in and see if this helps before I decide on buying the...




boredgunner said:


> The ATH-AD700X is great for gaming. If I recall correctly, build quality might be slightly shoddier in places since it's not made in Japan like the AD700, but the sound is said to be a bit more balanced and neutral.
> 
> If you have a decent sound card and want a step up, go for the AKG K7xx. Better sound stage/positional sound, and much more/better bass. And much more detailed sound and extended frequencies in general, just a tier or tier and a half above.


AKG-K702


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## NightAntilli

What is up with the price of the Phillips SHP-9500(s)? Was planning on buying one soon since they were extremely cheap (~$60). Suddenly they're all $100+. EOL?


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## Gilles3000

NightAntilli said:


> What is up with the price of the Phillips SHP-9500(s)? Was planning on buying one soon since they were extremely cheap (~$60). Suddenly they're all $100+. EOL?


Maybe just returning to the regular price, here in Europe they haven't been that cheap since 2015.


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## Tiihokatti

My brother replaced his Behringer B3031A speakers (Ribbon-tweeter + Kevlar-woofer version of B2031A) with Tangent Spectrum X6 BT floorstanders (got them for 599€).
Very nice build quality and functionality. Bass is good for 5" woofers, and it's only a tiny bit bloated on stock settings.

Overall sound quality doesn't really match up with the B3031A, but the B3031A was a groundloop hell with very annoying volume controls (==Windows volume at 6%) and zero connectivity.
For 599€ I would say that the X6 BT are pretty good overall, but my brother is going to miss the sweeeeeeeeet highs and overall more neutral sound signature of the B3031A.
But if pure sound quality is the deciding factor, something like JBL LSR308 or Behringer would be the best choice on a 600€ budget.

Fun fact: my brother bought the B3031A for 350€ years ago, and the current price for a new pair is 600€


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## iamjanco

Just an update that I'm pretty sure I'm going to purchase a *Mainline kit* from Bottlehead (thanks for the original pointer, TJ!). I'm really not in a place where I could make good use of speakers, and typically wear headphones while I'm in front of the screen. The Mainline goes on sale starting Monday ($250 off), and everything I've read about it has been more than positive. 

That said, I may also go with a few premium components (e.g., caps and resistors) that I'll source elsewhere once I've built and listened to the assembled product, and will know for sure when I get there.


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## lurker2501

Just came here to say that the recommended Superlux 668B headphones mentioned in the guide are absolute garbage. Especially when it comes to long gaming sessions due to the headband design which is two-piece and is very uncomfortable on the head. The headphones themselves are only good for small ears so if you have even medium size ones like me they will pinch your earlobes. Soundstage is mediocre at best. DO NOT recommend.


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## Sami-FIN

I feel that it is my responsibility to leave this link here: ASUS Xonar sound cards issues. It may be dangerous to use an Asus Xonar sound card.


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