# mac section



## The Bartender Paradox

do you think there could be a mac subsection like under operating systems or something? it probably wouldent get alot of hits as not alot of people ask about macs but the people who do ask usually seem to be confused about where to place the question.


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## bigvaL

mac doesnt deserve a section!


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## Bindusar

Can you even OC a Mac? I would think they'd be locked down just like a Dell, Compaq and the like.


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## comrad

i would not mind getting a mac, i would actually get a G5 over an FX any day.


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## bigvaL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *comrad*
i would not mind getting a mac, i would actually get a G5 over an FX any day.

hahahaha ha ha.. ha

why?

a desktop can do 100X more than a mac

macs suck, they have no advantage over a pc


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## hanwinting

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigval*
mac doesnt deserve a section!










i agree


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## Monkeybizness

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bigval*

hahahaha ha ha.. ha

why?

a desktop can do 100X more than a mac

macs suck, they have no advantage over a pc


Oh god I hate people like this. What advantage does the PC have over the Mac apart from being able to play games and various little crappy programs? None.

I have this guy in my Software class who is an Intel/Microsoft/PC fanboy and it annoys me so much. He thinks intel's are better then Mac's because OF COURSE the only thing that matters is clock speed.

I too would prefer a nice Top of the line dual G5 system rather then an FX. I don't hate PC's or anything, I've never owned a mac, I wish I could. I just have a more open mind then the Windows-obsessed people.


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## hanwinting

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Monkeybizness*

Oh god I hate people like this. What advantage does the PC have over the Mac apart from being able to play games and various little crappy programs? None.

I have this guy in my Software class who is an Intel/Microsoft/PC fanboy and it annoys me so much. He thinks intel's are better then Mac's because OF COURSE the only thing that matters is clock speed.


its not better but PC is more widely use and more convience thats all


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## Bindusar

Mac vs PC is much the same argument Intel vs AMD...each has their own strengths and weaknesses. I have used a Mac twice...didn't like it cause I was used to Windows click/pick pattern, not theirs, but I'm not gonna say they suck because of it.


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## blob

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bindusar*

Can you even OC a Mac? I would think they'd be locked down just like a Dell, Compaq and the like.



People have overclocked their mini-macs to 1.5GHz


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## Lostnhell

The MAC section is a questionable idea, but I think we should at least give the section a trail period and see how many inquiries we get.

Who knows we may get alot of new members from it.


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## zenoen

ok! ok! ok!
im going to unleash some anger here so back away

0.first off mac is virus free as of this moment 
1.speed is very simple. (look below)
a. quad processor(AMDOpteronModel850) 32000 MTOPS
b. intell. 3.20 GHz = 9067 MOTOPS
c. mac. 2.7 GHz G5 dual processor 60,750 MOTOPS

MOTOPS is Millions Of Theretical Operations Per Second

why people may ask why does it's speed differ if using windows
well just to help all the clueless in the world i will explaine
windows will slow down the computer as it runs unless u never connect it
to the internet (ever) but even if u dont it will still have to be defragged 
about 2 a year (more if connected to the internet) (unlike the mac withc indexs it self and defrags it self on the fly with out taking more then 200mghz to do so (also ure computer is runinng other programs at the same time)

nortian is a virus () vitural pc is a virus () windows midiea player is a virus() internet explorer is a virus () microsoft is a virus to a mac.

now why u may ask well let me explane it the simple minded who think 
its not

when installing any programs from microsoft the do scatter installs
they install all types of worthless jubk on a computer then install the program O and uninstall doesent get rid of it all it leaves trace files to slow youre computer down (even on windows)

i have found and removed these files from my computer using a spific program to know what files are changed during a installation and it still runs fine but now my computer is not occupid usine worthles programs 
(like who needs a program that creates 5 lines of random letters per sec
it is a time waister so i removed all of them

but to keep on topic . . .
i took these speed test from there own sites and the speed of a super computer is messured by montops so lets see what youre fallowing companies say
http://www.apple.com/support/export/

Mac mini
@1.42 GHz
20,349
Power Mac G5 
(Dual Processor)
@ 2.7 GHz
60,750
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm

Quad processor configurations:
• AMD Opteron Model 840 ** 18667 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 842 ** 21333 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 844 ** 24000 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 846 ** 26667 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 848 ** 29333 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 850 ** 32000 MTOPS
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm

Speed CTP in MTOPs IntelÂ® PentiumÂ® 4 Processor
3.20 GHz 9067 
3.06 GHz 8160
2.80 GHz 7467
2.66 GHz 7093
2.60 GHz 6933
2.53 GHz 6746
2.50 GHz 6666
2.40 GHz 6400
a quote from a friend about the speed problem in basic thoughts
?)#"DÂ®Æ'??ÃŸ??Æ'Â®D"#(?

Donâ€™t be fooled by the â€œspeedâ€ (i.e. MHz) numbers posted by Intel and the PC assemblers! Many tests show that Macs have superior performance to Pentiums with three times the MHz rating.

Why might this be? Consider this example:
two cars are traveling from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
Car A will average 65 MPH, while car B will average 50 MPH.
Assume they start together and neither car makes any stops.
Which one will get there first?

If you subscribe to the misconception that speed is the most important specification, then youâ€™d pick car A â€" and you would be wrong. The variable we did not discuss is the route each car would take. In our example, Car B is going the most direct route, while car A is going through San Diego (i.e. quite indirect).

I know, you ASSUMED that both cars would take the most straightforward route. Many people have undoubtedly assumed the same thing when comparing Pentiums/Athlons to PowerPC microprocessors â€" and that assumption would be incorrect. The fact is that for several reasons (e.g. that they were designed from day one to operate a Graphical User Interface) that PowerPC microprocessors are more efficiently designed.

In 2001 MacCentral published a VERY detailed write-up about the Megahertz Myth that is still well worth reading. (Make sure to go back to the Part I and Part II links.) Here are some additional articles (from other sources) on the same subject: Washington Post (9/02): Processor Speeds Almost Passe, and TechNews: Does MHz Really Matter Anymore?, and iGeek: MHz and GHz, and MHz and GHZ Have Lost Some Meaning, and Mr. Software Fights the MHz Myth.

Another person wrote â€œRPM is a better automotive analogy for MHz: a Viper at 2000 RPM smokes a Neon at 5000 RPMâ€... Apple also has posted an eight minute QuickTime movie demonstrating how a 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 is considerably slower than several lower MHz G4 versions. Check it out!

Still another writer proposed: â€œIf Intel wants to be the de-facto standard then let them. Weâ€™ll call that standard â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. On each new box leaving Apple, there will be a sticker next to the standard MHz telling the consumer that this 1000 MHz Mac is equal to a 3000 MHz Pentium or 3.0 â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. In every advertisement and promotional material Apple produces it will be there, plain as day, itâ€™s chips equal to â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. This new standard will bring us on par with Intel and show the world how the Mac is more than equal to the PC offerings.â€

This article explains AMDâ€™s new plan in its battle against the PC megahertz myth. (AMD makes the Athlon microprocessor chips that are the prime PC competitors to Intelâ€™s Pentium microprocessors.) It seems that the new AMD Athlons will be specified by model rather than by GHz.

Model A1600, for instance, is a 1.4GHz Athlon, which AMD views as equivalent in performance to an Intel P4 1.6GHz. AMD now demands that no motherboard/BIOS maker ever reveal the actual clockspeed of the chip, and even goes as far as to forbid the printing of the CPUâ€™s clockspeed in the motherboardâ€™s reference manual.

Hmmm. Seems like some PC people are now also catching on to the Megahertz myth...
dont be dumb chech your facts out
and apple is faster them a pc as i have shown if u READ READ READ REALLY READ THIS ARTICAL THEN YOU KNOW THAT I AM TALKING ABOUT SPEED NOT GHz LEARN WHAT SPEED IS

REALLY
COME ON


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## ouroboros1827

That's a really lengthy post...on a thread that got old 6mo ago...but still decent.

I'd get a mac because it's unix/linux-friendly, much unlike ms. I'd only get a laptop though...that's just me. All top of the line processors are competitive, macs owning video, amd's gaming, and intel multitasking...

Mac is sort of like windows....just not as popular atm. I wish more people would use it...windows is so sick...


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## Jazino

#1 Fanboy, id have posted earlier but my pc prevented me.


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## OJX

Mac OSX will be cool next year when it comes to pentium


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## radbirts

People who say "MAC sucks" have used it maybe a 0-10 times and haven't learned to use it yet. I like it soooooo much better than Windows. I like everything about it better. As for compatability, you don't get a MAC for gameing or anything, also, they're becoming more and more compatable. Also, in the time Windows has made 1 OS, MAC has made 4, I know that 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 aren't very different, but they still are very noticably different.


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## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radbirts*

People who say "MAC sucks" have used it maybe a 0-10 times and haven't learned to use it yet. I like it soooooo much better than Windows. I like everything about it better. As for compatability, you don't get a MAC for gameing or anything, also, they're becoming more and more compatable. Also, in the time Windows has made 1 OS, MAC has made 4, I know that 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 aren't very different, but they still are very noticably different.


i agree 
people just dont get the facts stright macs have outclassed windows and windows is filled with loopholls
macs have hardcoded the drivers and the basic structur data
windows have 2 files in there rom, load basic system on c/drive and load basic ram to use system
macs have BSD(A steel wall),UNIX (strong cement foundation),OS X(the unified goverment inside)
windows have no wall, a wood foundation(dos),windows(king Gates owns all and doesent care for the peons)


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## The Bartender Paradox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

i agree 
people just dont get the facts stright macs have outclassed windows and windows is filled with loopholls
macs have hardcoded the drivers and the basic structur data
windows have 2 files in there rom, load basic system on c/drive and load basic ram to use system
macs have BSD(A steel wall),UNIX (strong cement foundation),OS X(the unified goverment inside)
windows have no wall, a wood foundation(dos),windows(king Gates owns all and doesent care for the peons)



Sadly macs just dont have the software support that windows does. if a mac had the same support as windows I and probably many other people would be a dedicated macer (<tehehe, new word) but i am just to addicted to HL2 to switch







and dont have enough money to do both.


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## OZRhino

Being a Mac User all my life, I can say that I have never had one single virus, one single crash ( Except for one but that was when I had the Mac OS 10.0 Beta







)
They're great machines, very stylish, everything just works.









I recently started making a pc, why you ask ?
For the fun of it (ie. Scouting out the parts and Building the computer), When you buy a mac all the parts have all ready been chosen and put together.

Pretty much the only good thing about pc's/windows is the games







Although Mac Gaming companies are catching up, windows still has a major percentage when it comes to games.

The question is. . . What will happen next year with the move from IBM to Intel ?
We already know that Apple have said they wouldn't comment on whether or not Windows would be installable. (We pretty much know that it will be.)

So. . . Pretty much it comes down to your preference. . . Gaming or The other stuff









BTW: I own two Apple Cubes, One G4 Powerbook 14" Laptop, One G4 Powerbook 17" Laptop. . . and many other macs









(My PC is nearly finished, just installing the watercooling - A real b1†ch btw







)


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## Fellfromgrace

I just dont understand what I can do with a mac if I cant play games?

I mean ok yes if I was a "real" director maybe I could edit my movie better on a mac (big whop I'm not a director)

Maybe if I was a "real" music producer I could produce my newest and hottests bands cd better (big whop I'm not a producer)

Maybe if I had 300 bucks to throw down on an IPOD I could DL mp3's better 
(big whop I dont own an ipod)

Maybe if I was a great artist who actually sold his masterpieces for money I could create better art with my Mac (big whop I'm not an artist)

Maybe if I were a photographer I could edit my photos better on a Mac (big whop I'm not a photographer)

ya know wait, I'm not really sure you can edit photos better on a mac..but err anyway.

If your a rich and famous, ie (director, musician, artist, editor, producer) maybe a mac is for you, but if your like the other 99.75 % of us I say a pc is probably better.

This was a fanboyish post, damn I'll probably get some warnings but I'm sorry after that Mac Fanboy posted a post about as long as the decleration of independance with one simple "idea" (Mhz dont mean anything) I just dont care haha, I felt oblidged and justified in typing this !! AMEN brothas !!

*and gees, its not like people didnt know mghz werent everything umpteen months ago

with that said, I'm off to look up the newst macs, cuz I SHOULD be rich and famous, we all know I got the "look" haha


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## OZRhino

Quote:



*Original Post by FellFromGrace*
I mean ok yes if I was a "real" director maybe I could edit my movie better on a mac (big whop I'm not a director)

Maybe if I was a "real" music producer I could produce my newest and hottests bands cd better (big whop I'm not a producer)

Maybe if I had 300 bucks to throw down on an IPOD I could DL mp3's better 
(big whop I dont own an ipod)

Maybe if I was a great artist who actually sold his masterpieces for money I could create better art with my Mac (big whop I'm not an artist)

Maybe if I were a photographer I could edit my photos better on a Mac (big whop I'm not a photographer)


You forgot 'Maybe if I was a great pr0nstar'


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## zenoen

u are forgeting i am no movie maker but its free free i tell u free
pcs are actually worse gaming mashines the only reason there bieng used is becouse people aer stupid and people dont want to switch

i would have the ability to create anything my hart desires

p.s did you know that windows 98,xp,me, were made on a mac gues what windows
is a froud hiding the facts from you most games are made on a mac but they couldent test it so they bought VPC so they could test it out on there macs

a dual mac is 60montops a quad amd is only 48montops so amd isint even worth half the power of a mac


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## OZRhino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

p.s did you know that windows 98,xp,me, were made on a mac gues what windows is a froud hiding the facts from you *most games are made on a mac but they couldent test it so they bought VPC so they could test it out on there macs*


Right. . . 
That is so not true lol
VPC 'does' emulate windows, VPC however does not emulate graphics. (except for say 2D/Solitare/3D Pinball) Anything that demands 3D processing will not run. Why ?
Because VPC doesn't take advantage of the Mac's Graphics Card.

*slaps zenoen*
Get with it


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## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OZRhino*

Right. . . 
That is so not true lol
VPC 'does' emulate windows, VPC however does not emulate graphics. (except for say 2D/Solitare/3D Pinball) Anything that demands 3D processing will not run. Why ?
Because VPC doesn't take advantage of the Mac's Graphics Card.

*congrads zenoen*
Get with it































macs graphics are and have been beter then windows it doesent matter
and if they use ati or nivada thene it will run completly if they have a add on for the program thow they don't uasily test out 3d in it

think this out 
O and i have a friend that works there, they do not use vpc all the time to test it out, but it has and is used a lot there(they also build the program on macs
it true


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## OZRhino

You don't happen to use 'Gameranger' do you ?
if not - www.gameranger.com


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## chechenepiphany

Macs
More expensive
One OS
Limited Games
Limited Software
Allmost no freeware
Awful pseudo-futuristic look
Nobody else has a mac (take a peek at their market share, US and world)
Overclocking-You don't see a ton, now do you?
Switching processors in the next two years (better not buy one now)
Slashdot -ugh


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## zenoen

actually if a game is ported to mac it uasly is a good game but if not then it might be a crappy game in the first place macs dont tollerate crap
(yes i do have game ranger) (why?)
all those os windows have stink and wernt worth it but just so u know i actually have 3 os on my mac (granted there all mac os es ) unix () mac os 9.2.2 ()mac os X.3.9
and u can get linux downloaded for a mac to so u are bulling stuff u don't know anything about
actually windows to even get all the software that comes free equals out () 
also the hardware built in supported ATI Radeon 9650, NVIDIA GeForce FX
in otherwards u can reformat and still have ure drivers DU
the software includes all u could need and im bieng truthfull
video,music,sound,graphics,emulation,science,histo ry,search engins,
hech even game editors ,and most importiantly "I LIFE" most advanced editing software in a group, ect . . . .ect . . .
screen savers are avible for macs to maby not some porn programs but who needs those u just want them (you not me)

its better then windows and customizeable to ure desires (the program (shapshifter)
you are just a jelus man not zelus mind u, just jelus
ahh the delma of the world well it is like this just becouse you and most people in the world get a TV that cost maby ,500$ i get a bigscreen with dinamic intergration for 1000$ get the picture ___ or maby a car example would suit you you get a 2000 mersadies bin and i get a 2004 ford pickup truck (but mine has a extra feture it is soler powered in the day and uses hibrid tecnology) _ it just works why ures may cost less but will cost more in the end and you will have to get a new car every 3 years just to keep it working but mine automactly cleans and fixes it self it also has 
built in goverment defence tenocology aganst hijackers
i have over clocked my mac with a simple program that tells the computet processor to run faster (not possible in a current windows) a simple program learn befor u preach.
the processor isint what makes macs fast it will improve the speed of the overall computer becouse of the way its intigrated lets say u build a house and u import parts from all around but the pieces come in sets (roof,front wall,back wall,kitchen floor,) and the pieces go together with a few nails in certian parts

a mac is a house built from the ground up mor then one piece holding it togeher
several in fact it is so intrigated that even during a earthquake it wont falter 
(why ures would) the built for maxium space and utlige is in the house from us why ures would be the same weather u live in a swamp or a resort
get the picture.

thats enough evidence to teach a uniformed person named chechenepiphany
ya and anyone else


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## zenoen

oh and the truth of all macs and windows is located at a spific site as i will jet down
-( http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/index.html )-
if u can read the whole siteand not be convinced then u will bw doomed forever-(just kidding)- no u just woulden of been honest or ure closed about the matter


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## iker0

RAWR FanBoy Wars on an agein thread


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## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iker0*

RAWR FanBoy Wars on an agein thread


what are u talking about hmmm.. look ing in handy wiget dictionary
ahhh
and so what we are discussing importiant issuse if u want to sit there and complaine about it and say becouse u cant prove me wrong i should stop talking where are u living (FOURMS ARE FOR TALKING ABOUT ISSUES AND DISCUSSING PROBLEMS AND I AM NOT USE ING ANY BAD WORDS SO LEAVE ME ALONE)
i Mean seriously u just dont like it when people have a wonderfull disscussion about life changing events heck evolution is the stupidest thing i ever herd and people bieleve in that so they speek up about it (no offence ment by this inquirement i have made)


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## chechenepiphany

And speaking of dictionaries, try using one.
http://dictionary.reference.com/


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## X800

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bindusar*

Can you even OC a Mac? I would think they'd be locked down just like a Dell, Compaq and the like.


You can overclock a mac? here
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/macmini/


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## OZRhino

Zenoen what's ya GR Name ?


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## iker0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

u just dont like it when people have a wonderfull disscussion about life changing events heck evolution is the stupidest thing i ever herd and people bieleve in that so they speek up about it (no offence ment by this inquirement i have made)


lol No, im loving this thread its great, you could not know a thing bout the Mac Vs Windows thing and read this thread i feel quite knowledgeable about it, and i werent refering to you with the fanboy comment, i was referring to the people winging about Mac's wen the have more then likely had very little Experience to go buy.


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## X800

or you can overclock the emac from 800 to 1.4GHZ?:

http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/eMac/eMac-upgrade.html

*also: the macs heatsink (no Fan)*


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## Jazino

dead wrong about gaming dude, its not all about a few titles its about choice, and how can the mac be better graphically when you cant even play alot of mainstream games? And the comment about macs not accepting crap games was vey lame. I would love to ditch my pc but until i have alot of cash or macs & pc's are more universally compatible im going with what suits all my needs best.

oh yeah i do believe overall mac is a better platform but i dont really give a crap about a motop or whatever your alking about.


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## zenoen

oh srry then, hay i amim to please ,and i have used that dictionary before it is a very usefull dictionary,u can use software to ocer clock a mac to becouse of the way its built http://www.powerlogix.com/products/c...tor/index.html but it doesent act in the same way as actually overclocking does,(wow lot of replys let me take a breather

done
ok where was i GameRanger name ah yes it was hmmm ahh aaa i no no (Hold on)

ahh im back my name is (would u bieleve this) Death LOL i just about forgot about that had to update my version too
whats next

ahh yes (FANBOY COMMENT) P.S (i do have some bad spelling partly becouse i would uasly check it with a spell check but i dont do that offen lol

oh ya keep on track _ 0 _ - mostly people here use AMD and INTELL 
so it is no surprise that he wouldent know much about mac if you use a mac 
then people are always hiting on you and trying to show u up

not that way- on computer knowalge, knowoge, knowawalage, hmm, you know what word im trying to say
but i have tried to make a fourm on ask me about mac, and i will tell you about mac
BUT people always like to cut me off and say u cant get into wars on the subject or my favorite (poof_it_my_fourm_dissapered_


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## Chim3ra

I miss my iMac. It was an old G3 500MHz rig. It was simple to use and even easier to move around than my current rig. I'd like to get a Mac Mini, but I've got more important expenses on my mind right now.


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## X800

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chim3ra*

I miss my iMac. It was an old G3 500MHz rig. It was simple to use and even easier to move around than my current rig. I'd like to get a Mac Mini, but I've got more important expenses on my mind right now.


The Problem with macs

Bad:
(Cost To Much $$$$$$)
(They dont have really good Ram, Emac = 133MHZ Ram)
(Video card suck)
(not a great overclocker)

Good:
(The CPUs Have *L1,L2,L3*)


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## zenoen

it's true tho 
warcraft starcraft diablo halo marathon GR(gohst recon) doom wolfenstine
UT(unreal tournment) baldurs gate unreal elite force NWN(neverwinter knights) EXECTPTION is halo 2 and a fue others using a special engine)
SWAG (starwars all genere -2 of type mostly covers --) galaxys,jedi knight acadmey,dark forces,jedi knight 2, ect )now if i was stuck and had to choose a game it wont be a hard choice u see if it is good it is most of the time brought over to mac oh ya forgot the mist and everquest and a choice few othes so what u get the picture just becouse now u cant go down and pick up ( oh the sims is a anothe good one) one at toys-r-us DU u go to fries or even amazon its not about quanity its about quality and all the games that still are played for fun the ones that last 
(like marathon 1990-2005 graphics as good as doom 3 are avilable also 4D
gaming is only found in marathon booooo ya but not a form of 3d objects dont u get it)games are played for a limited time to relax and have fun all you need is a good game A-N-D G-U-E-S-S W-H-A-T most the top games 
are playable on a mac (without all the errors on a pc) and if the game is made correctly it will be better then its pc counterpart

examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . SIMS Y
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DOOM y/n
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . UNREAL Y
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ELITE FORCE Y
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BALDURES GATE Y
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NWN Y (MISSING EDITOR)
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QUAKE 3 Y
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . halflife n
examing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . METAL OF HONER Y

Y = YES (U HAVE TO BE DUMB IF U DIDNT KNOW THAT
N = NO (LOOK ABOVE)
Y/N = YES IN MOST RESPECTS BUT THERE ARE A FEW QUESTIONABLE AREAS

SEE TOLD U SO
also the speed rating on mac games (minum requirements)
is for decent game play not game play at all times (like DukeNuckem IM going to KICK YOUR







do i have to say it


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## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chim3ra*

I miss my iMac. It was an old G3 500MHz rig. It was simple to use and even easier to move around than my current rig. I'd like to get a Mac Mini, but I've got more important expenses on my mind right now.


MY MODEL IS A OLD FRIEND g3 6000MHz -5400MHz


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## Orange

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bindusar*

Can you even OC a Mac? I would think they'd be locked down just like a Dell, Compaq and the like.


No you cannot, but why would you want to they OWN any pc any day


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## Jazino

incoherent.


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## bentrinh

Apples are for eating









Ok ok maybe they should have a section but......


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## zenoen

Originally Posted by Chim3ra
I miss my iMac. It was an old G3 500MHz rig. It was simple to use and even easier to move around than my current rig. I'd like to get a Mac Mini, but I've got more important expenses on my mind right now.

The Problem with macs

Bad:
(Cost To Much $$$$$$)
(They dont have really good Ram, Emac = 133MHZ Ram)
(Video card suck)
(not a great overclocker)

Good:
(The CPUs Have L1,L2,L3)

whell i completely disagee all this is proven on a site decatided to 
kicking the bu---- i mean teachin and educatint the unlearened
(dont know if that is even a word but imm shure the readers will buy it

first we will go over price 
so you are comparing the price of a top of the line mac to the bottom o the line windows no
hmm mabe you are refering to the mac low quality but ure wrong
let me show you where it says your wrong hold on
Processing data link's. . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
done
list refrences
http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/03.html
http://homepage.mac.com/jvandyke/IDC_TCO_2002.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/199901271...op_decade.html
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/06/13.9.shtml
http://www.azcentral.com/business/et.../18000324.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200107010...au/execgde.htm

there are others but i would prefer to finish posting this
so i will continue with hmmm ram sounds good lets check
hmm it seams as if windows are divirting all there ram to run there system
wait im right here hay its slowing down the computer to oh well ill restart then it will be free again

that type of theology is what runs windows let me link you to the fallowing data node p.s he looked at one computer and decided that is the max ram of all of them 
ohh gues what mine is a g3=699MH =2x128 ram cards hmm that sound distroted mine has 1 256 in stead of a 128 so i have 384 sdram hmm i can up to 512 cards 
somethings wrong with his post

bone head i know he was not paying attenchen ati 9600 is bad let me restate he is not checking his facts i seam to recall them bieng good enough to run doom 3 hmm that means GForce is bad to boy im so unknowledgeable hmm my spelling is off to AHHH well not like i cant be right here and there to bad i am right a lot K next mine over clocks 100 and a emac can over clock 60 MH u are not checking your facts again dang nubes


----------



## Orange

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bentrinh*

Apples are for eating









Ok ok maybe they should have a section but......


they shouldnt, not that many people own one and this is for overclocking and macs dont fgit toom uch in there so they should be a sub cat. with linux, etc....
but APPLE do PwN pc's....


----------



## Jazino

i dont think anyone is really arguing that pc's arent inferior to macs technically, but macs arent as practical all around for the mainstream user. the mac section im sure has and will be discussed by the mods and admin and if it is needed it will be added.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Originally Posted by Chim3ra
I miss my iMac. It was an old G3 500MHz rig. It was simple to use and even easier to move around than my current rig. I'd like to get a Mac Mini, but I've got more important expenses on my mind right now.

The Problem with macs

Bad:
(Cost To Much $$$$$$)
(They dont have really good Ram, Emac = 133MHZ Ram)
(Video card suck)
(not a great overclocker)

Good:
(The CPUs Have L1,L2,L3)

whell i completely disagee all this is proven on a site decatided to 
kicking the bu---- i mean teachin and educatint the unlearened
(dont know if that is even a word but imm shure the readers will buy it

first we will go over price 
so you are comparing the price of a top of the line mac to the bottom o the line windows no
hmm mabe you are refering to the mac low quality but ure wrong
let me show you where it says your wrong hold on
Processing data link's. . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
done
list refrences
http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/03.html
http://homepage.mac.com/jvandyke/IDC_TCO_2002.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/199901271...op_decade.html
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/06/13.9.shtml
http://www.azcentral.com/business/et.../18000324.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200107010...au/execgde.htm

there are others but i would prefer to finish posting this
so i will continue with hmmm ram sounds good lets check
hmm it seams as if windows are divirting all there ram to run there system
wait im right here hay its slowing down the computer to oh well ill restart then it will be free again

that type of theology is what runs windows let me link you to the fallowing data node p.s he looked at one computer and decided that is the max ram of all of them 
ohh gues what mine is a g3=699MH =2x128 ram cards hmm that sound distroted mine has 1 256 in stead of a 128 so i have 384 sdram hmm i can up to 512 cards 
somethings wrong with his post

bone head i know he was not paying attenchen ati 9600 is bad let me restate he is not checking his facts i seam to recall them bieng good enough to run doom 3 hmm that means GForce is bad to boy im so unknowledgeable hmm my spelling is off to AHHH well not like i cant be right here and there to bad i am right a lot K next mine over clocks 100 and a emac can over clock 60 MH u are not checking your facts again dang nubes



did i say 60 i ment 600MHz


----------



## zenoen

OH and there not are they

well just to set Jasko stright
but macs arent as practical all around for the mainstream user. end quote??
just becouse i bought 60 pc and through away59
they get a marketshare +60
but i also bought 20 macs and use them +20
hmm what does this mean all that market share means is that more pcs are bought
then macs i dont know the reason??)people can only use them for a shot while till they have to upgrade and toss it(hmmm

just adding my imput

OH and i overclocked my mac 100 MHz
OH u can over clock a macmini 100 MHz
U can over clock a I-mac 600mh and more if u use a colling engine 
all that u cant over cclock is bull and propaganda people spread

pay attenche to my posts
(maby mumble u mumble learn mumble something mumble)


----------



## chechenepiphany

I understand that macs have some games, and that you can run emulators, but what in the name of all that is computer related would possess you to buy one _instead_ of a pc? I can do anything your mac can, and I can do it cheaper(i dont have to pay for an emulator for instance). You can't build a mac, you can't pick your os, and there aren't a lot of options if you're looking to upgrade.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

I understand that macs have some games, and that you can run emulators, but what in the name of all that is computer related would possess you to buy one _instead_ of a pc? I can do anything your mac can, and I can do it cheaper(i dont have to pay for an emulator for instance). You can't build a mac, you can't pick your os, and there aren't a lot of options if you're looking to upgrade.


check prievus post all that info is bull i have proven it countless times over antd u ask the same question WHAT DID I DO TO DISERVE THIS

check this link and be proven wrong if u dont 
http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pa..._debunked.html
then your a chicken


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

check prievus post all that info is bull i have proven it countless times over antd u ask the same question WHAT DID I DO TO DISERVE THIS

check this link and be proven wrong if u dont 
http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pa..._debunked.html
then your a chicken


First off, calm down. Next, stop calling people names. Since you insist on mercilessly foisting the same link upon us at every post, I'm going to address what's wrong with that page.



The Real Myth: Macs are cheaper in the long run because of the "cost of ownership"

The Truth: There _is_ no cost of ownership. You buy it, you use it. Unless macs can save the price difference in power, you aren't saving anything.










The Real Myth: OS X is easier to learn and requires fewer keystrokes

The Truth: This is completely subjective, and comes down to personal preference. As for the keystrokes, I'm not counting, but I don't think It's going to save you from carpal tunnel or anything.









The Real Myth: Macs can run two OS's simultaneously, providing "two computers" for the price of one. + There are at least TEN GOOD REASONS why schools should NOT use computers based on what businesses use.

The Truth: PC's can run multiple OS's simultaneously too. Not that this matters, since you are unlikely to need more than one, and switching back and forth is impractical for regular use. Also, I see no reason to train students on anything other than what they will actually use in the future. Few workplace even have _a_ mac, let alone a host of them for employees. Also, the needs of students are in fact very similar to the needs of buisness people. Internet, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.










The Real Myth: Macs are more stable and secure than PC's and are less prone to problems when properly maintained

The Truth: When properly maintained, _anything _is less prone to problems, including PC's. PC's are plenty stable, assuming they are not abused and are assigned a password.










This doesn't really pertain to the discussion at hand, but the last thing I want is to be accused of not being thorough and skipping things.










The Real Myth: Speed is not important, but macs are faster.(I love the way he throws that in.)

The Truth: Macs are not particularly faster. This is a typical mistake. People compare entire brands in general, which is pointless. Although I suspect you will find that PC's are generally faster, dollar for dollar.

And that's all for now. I guess zenoen will take it from here.


----------



## zenoen

i was refering to the howle site not the page it goes over every question u could possibly ask and it was right about all that look at more button then u have your proof

sheesh chicken is not a bad word (do u think chicken is a bad word)
i think not any way have fun o and ill be waiting for a reply from 
OZRhino what was the reason for they GR account info

you missed the point its not the cover buty whats inside (lol INTELL)


----------



## zenoen

We will not contest the claim that PCs are made cheaper than Macs.

Macs however, have never been competing with PCs strictly on the basis of purchase price, but rather:

1) the total cost of ownership, and
2) the quality of the computing experience.
As an example, consider a car buyer trying to decide whether they should purchase a Ford Escort or a Mercedes Benz.

Believe me, despite both being cars, Mercedes does not feel that they are in the same market as the Escort is. Mercedes are aimed at people whose emphasis in on a high quality, highly featured vehicle, vs those whose concern is good basic transportation.

Now letâ€™s assume that the Escort is selling at $15,000, while a new Mercedes is available for $16,000. Exactly how many people would be buying the â€œless expensiveâ€ car???

That is essentially the situation here comparing PC boxes to Macs: possible, small initial price difference, but BIG quality, performance and ease of use differences. [We say "possible", as we have seen several examples where when accurately comparing it to a comparable PC, that the purchase price of a Mac is less. But, for a worst-case scenario, letâ€™s assume here that the initial cost of the Mac is slightly higher.] 
---------------------------

As a second point, if an organization (or person) is financially sensitive, then the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) should be the only important criteria â€" not the initial outlay.

Letâ€™s look at another car analogy. You tell me which new car is the better buy:

Comparing Ownership Costs of Two Cars
Car P Car M
_______________________________________
Initial Cost $15,000 $16,000
____________________________________
Gas Mileage 10 MPG 40 MPG
___________________________________
Annual Service Costs$1000 $200
___________________________________
Annual Insurance Cost$600 $300
___________________________________
Lifetime of Car 4 years 6 years

The message should be clear: anyone whose primary focus is on the initial price will be making a BIG financial mistake.

If you are in the unfortunate situation where your school (or business) is seriously considering switching from Macs to Windows/PCs, then ask the MIS people (or whoever is promoting this change) to:

1 - Please provide a written detailed calculation as to the Total Cost of Ownership of Macs vs PC computers, which should (as a minimum) include:

a) initial hardware cost,
b) annual maintenance expenditures,
c) usable lifetime of the computer,
d) software costs (license, support, upgrades),
e) networking expenses (hardware, software, licenses, maintenance, etc.),
f) operating costs (e.g. electricity),
g) teacher training costs,
h) teacher preferences, satisfaction and efficiency,
i) ability to provide student with an enjoyable and productive learning environment.
2 - Please provide a written detailed explanation as to how using Windows/PC computers will guarantee a discernible benefit over using Macintosh computers:
a) for the students
b) for the teachers
c) for the technical support staff
d) for the taxpayers.
Their written answers will provide you with information as to how to proceed. [And, if they say something like they donâ€™t know how to do a Total Cost of Ownership Calculation, then suggest they check out Taking TCO To The Classroom written by the independent Consortium for School Networking.]
Essentially every survey that has taken these factors into account {e.g. one by IDC (PDF)} has shown that Macs are less expensive to own than comparably equipped PCs â€" typically by something like $400 per year per computer.

A more recent study by IDC reviewed the satisfaction of several school systems using Macs. Results showed very high satisfaction rates, minimal support costs and where support was needed Apple received high marks for customer service.

In January of 2004, after doing a thorough analysis, the large Brookfields law office (hundreds of computers) said that they were going to buy Macs. Read where Brookfieldâ€™s general manager Kevin Hall said the cost per desktop unit was lower. â€œOur IT staff numbers would need to double if we were to run the equivalent amount of PCs.â€

This December 2002 Consulting Technology Newsletter report, done about Mac OSX, says: "The Macintosh has for years been known as a tool for graphic designers and other â€˜creative typesâ€™, while Windows is what you use for real business. A lot has changed over the years, and believe it or not, for many businesses the Macintosh offers compelling ROI advantages." They then go on to delineate three areas where Macs offer cost savings: Productivity, Licensing, and Security.

A recent review of security issues and costs was done by Paul Murphy of CIO Today (April, 2005). Mr. Murphy found the Mac OS X to the answer to security and compatibility. He states:"...if security concerns are your most important driver for desktop change, and Microsoft Office compatibility is your most significant barrier, then switching to Macs actually offers you the best of all possible worlds."
---------------------------

The absolutely profound Gistics report (which surveyed over 30,000 business professionals) concluded, â€œOne justification for substituting Wintel computers for Macintosh computers is that it would be less expensive to support a single Wintel platform. Numerous studies, however, have shown that this common perception is false.â€

In fact this report went on to state, â€œIn a fully accounted 36 month cost-of-ownership of a system purchase, a Macintosh user saves $2211 more than a Windows user.â€ This amounts to over $700 per year per computer!

[Note: click on these links if you want to download PDF files that are a summary, or the complete (670K) Gistics report.]
---------------------------

This article summarizes a comprehensive study (by respected technology research company Gartner) completed in July of 2002. Their research found that â€œMacs are up to 36 percent cheaper to own and run than competing Windows PCs.â€

â€œThe report utilized Gartnerâ€™s Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) methodology, which takes into account both the direct and indirect costs of owning IT infrastructure. Direct costs include all hardware and software costs for desktop and mobile computers, servers and peripherals as well as upgrades, technical support and annual depreciation. Indirect costs cover the costs of end-users supporting themselves and each other, end-user training time and non-productive downtime.â€

The research was conducted at Melbourne Universityâ€™s Faculty of Arts, which included 4,676 Apple computers and 5,338 Windows machines. The report compares the TCO for the Universityâ€™s Mac environment with its PC environment. It also compared the Universityâ€™s Mac environment with similar-sized PC installations around the world.
---------------------------

Read a thorough discussion as to why the Urbana school district chose to standardize on Macs. The site gives several references for Total Cost of Ownership readings. It includes a particularly good TCO reference for educators... And a North Carolina K-12 computer tech support specialist writes a very comprehensive TCO article, again concluding that Macs are far less expensive to own.
---------------------------

Gannett News Service tested a loaded Gateway Profile 4 XL compared to a high end iMac, computers that were similarly priced. â€œOn paper, the Apple and the Gateway seem closely matched in features and bundled software... When you look between the lines, though, the Gateway shows evidence of cutting some corners. Its LCD, for example uses an analog rather than digital connection, which is somewhat cheaper to produce. The result: The iMacâ€™s picture is visibly crisper, with truer colors. In addition, the iMacâ€™s stainless steel arm provides an immensely flexible range of vertical and horizontal adjustments for the display. Despite all the leaping and jumping the Profile 4 manages in its TV commercial, you only can tilt its display vertically.â€

â€œWhatâ€™s more, the Profile 4 contains 4-pin FireWire ports, rather than the 6-pin variety used on all of Appleâ€™s computers. Unfortunately, a 4-pin FireWire port doesnâ€™t supply power to external devices, such as the iPod digital music player, which means youâ€™ll need an add-on power cable when using FireWire devices with the Profile... Also, while the iMacâ€™s power supply is self-contained, The Profile 4 uses an oversized power brick.

â€œAppleâ€™s flat-panel iMacs sales include the SuperDrive, a drive that creates both CDs and DVDs, Gateway doesnâ€™t offer a comparable option for the Profile 4. The fully equipped Gateways have a combination CD writer and DVD reader, which create CDs but only play â€" not record â€" a DVD video.â€
---------------------------

In a comprehensive IBM assisted study a few years ago, the conclusion was that the estimated Total Cost of Ownership of Windows/PCs (per desktop unit; Direct costs + Indirect costs) would be between $3,520 and $18,000 per year. (This annual amount sort of dwarfs a possible one-time $200 initial price difference!)
---------------------------

In the Single Platform Lie report (PDF) R.M. Terence, M.S. says, â€œTotal Life-cycle Costs are the most valid and important measure of the cost of a system. Study after study from Evans Research, Ingram Labs, J.D. Powers and other industry leaders has shown that Macintoshes are: 
easier to support than Wintel systems
cheaper to support than Wintel systems
more plug and play than Wintel systems
easier for users to learn than Wintel systems
have greater user satisfaction than Wintel systems
longer lasting than Wintel systems
â€œSingle Platform Wintel is incredibly stupid. It cannot be justified from an economic standpoint, and it cannot be justified from any other standpoint. If you have to go single platform anything, it should be single platform Macintosh -- at least this platform has a proven track record for lowest life cycle costs, reliability, customer satisfaction, ease-of-use, ease-of-learning and lowest costs of support.â€

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/03.html

this is the prices i was refering to
Of course if u run a linux or unix or c++ or c _ without windows your safe
in the long run proably
maby
its possible
um ya 
macs safe to
ahh im going to leave now
ah ya
se u soon


----------



## -Thrilla-

What I think the answer is, to Mac vs. MS, AMD vs. Intel, IE vs. Firefox and such.
There is no right or wrong.

People grow up using one of those stuff, and they're more used to the stuff they use most of the time. Like if you grow up in Peru, you will not drink Pepsi, because you grew up drinking Cola.

Most of us are gamers, therefore MS will perform better.
But when it comes to other stuff, like media, server, and even just regular homework, Mac will out perform MS. We're just more used to something, and say it's better.

If the first computer you touch is a Mac, you'll probably grow up liking it; if you grow up in a Mac city (







), you'll say Mac pwns MS.

Same theory applies to all those other fan boy crap (yes, I hate this word but I had to use it, fanboyism drove me nuts).

There's nothing wrong with liking your OS, it's all personal...
btw cola is better


----------



## Fellfromgrace

I disagree with you still, at least on Macs being cheaper for a company to use other then PC's..

One thing you did not take into account for is the fact that most people grow up being trained on PC's and not Macs. As well as being trained to fix PC's and not Macs..

If a company was to convert do you have ANY idea how much money that company would have to spend to train ALL of their employees including MIS about the use/uses of a mac.

Trust me you seem like a really smart guy and had some really good points in that long post. BUT the fact is companies as a whole are alot smarter then you and me both. IF it made economical sence for them to convert to MACS they would have allready.

So I guess my point is, you can type up all the long posts you want to, with all your brilliant concepts but its useless. Those companies have allready thought over a million times what your screaming. And everytime they think about it they have come to the same logical conclusion that PC's are better for their needs.

Now I will say that some companies definately would benefit from using Macs over pc's, (companies that do graphic arts and various other "artsy" things) but those companies are few far and in between compared to your average old company. And trust me I'm sure those companies allready do use Macs


----------



## -Thrilla-

My point wasn't about mac pwns MS, it was more of a fanboyism thing... there's no poing fighting over pointless ideas...


----------



## Fellfromgrace

Sorry I wasent that clear..I wasent reffering to disagreeing with you thrilla. I meant I disagreed with zenoen


----------



## redmonster13

I think a mac forum is a good idea. I think The Deciples of Steve need somewhere to hang out.

I wouldnt mind having a G5 with 8 gigs of ram and a 6800 ultra but my system does everything I need and cost 1500 less to build. I spent the 1500 on games and cool stuff.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fellfromgrace*

What I think the answer is, to Mac vs. MS, AMD vs. Intel, IE vs. Firefox and such.
There is no right or wrong.

People grow up using one of those stuff, and they're more used to the stuff they use most of the time. Like if you grow up in Peru, you will not drink Pepsi, because you grew up drinking Cola.

Most of us are gamers, therefore MS will perform better.
But when it comes to other stuff, like media, server, and even just regular homework, Mac will out perform MS. We're just more used to something, and say it's better.

If the first computer you touch is a Mac, you'll probably grow up liking it; if you grow up in a Mac city ( ), you'll say Mac pwns MS.

Same theory applies to all those other fan boy crap (yes, I hate this word but I had to use it, fanboyism drove me nuts).

There's nothing wrong with liking your OS, it's all personal...
btw cola is better


well that is a interesting point but i did mean what i said if a hardware problem occures u can get it repared for about the same price for a pc()
only if u go to a mac repare shop or do it your self )(hmm is yourself one word or is it 2 hmmm>your self your self yourself your self < nah its one word so where was i o ya )(it will cost slightly more in some cases ()depending on the repare() but as for the factor of use and what you grow up on () i conseed your right about that mostly u stick to the platform u learned on till u see no reason to change or not change () but listen im only going to say this once

YOU are right about THAT

but people have converted after trying the other system for a while
on there OWN
its much harder to make people convert then just let them try out your computer once a while till they want to try it out for themselves to a major digree hold on REVIVING INCOMMING LINK
. . . . . . . . /Ë†\\ . . . .*DATA LINK (.ini) riceved
. . . . . . . . /_ _\\ . . . *DATA LINK RECIVING
. . . . . . . /****\\ . . .*DATA LINK RECIVED
. . . . . . . /_____\\ . . .*DATA LINK DISPLAYING

this is a neet report about mac networking and the fastest computers in the world ()i mean the fastest super computers in the world
it just a neet clip figuered i show it to u for fun (EVIL LAUGH IN BACKGROUND thell never know mwhah hah ahhah (COUGH) (cough) ahamm )any way take a look
http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/...atech_480.html
for fast connections
http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/...atech_320.html
for medium connections
http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/...atech_240.html
for slow pokes

just a little spot for fun check it out
p.sthe french fries they make there are very chewie dont eat em the have a aftertaste of dungbeatle


----------



## tweako_420

I think all this arguing is useless..

1# MAC forum = good idea
2# Mac perform better than pc's
3# MAc's are more expensive than Pc's
4# MAC's dont have as many games.. they do have games.. but the games you listed I'd play one or two of them..
6# I hate the way MACs look.. PC's you can customize the hell out of
5# I'd rather own a pc.. really.. i like those little problems.. and needing to tweak stuff.. its fun for me.. but Id also like to have a powerful MAC to do video and music editing
6# In the end it all comes down to opinion and usage

Edit: and usage may not have that much to do with it but i already know how to do everything on windows that i want to do... if i got a mac id have to relearn everything and that takes a lot of time


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fellfromgrace*

I disagree with you still, at least on Macs being cheaper for a company to use other then PC's..

One thing you did not take into account for is the fact that most people grow up being trained on PC's and not Macs. As well as being trained to fix PC's and not Macs..

If a company was to convert do you have ANY idea how much money that company would have to spend to train ALL of their employees including MIS about the use/uses of a mac.

Trust me you seem like a really smart guy and had some really good points in that long post. BUT the fact is companies as a whole are alot smarter then you and me both. IF it made economical sence for them to convert to MACS they would have allready.

So I guess my point is, you can type up all the long posts you want to, with all your brilliant concepts but its useless. Those companies have allready thought over a million times what your screaming. And everytime they think about it they have come to the same logical conclusion that PC's are better for their needs.

Now I will say that some companies definately would benefit from using Macs over pc's, (companies that do graphic arts and various other "artsy" things) but those companies are few far and in between compared to your average old company. And trust me I'm sure those companies allready do use Macs


first off not even microsoft uses there own system for making games
(he thinks he a lot)
but let me give u a example

the quarkie keyboard is used the most around the world
its not the fastest it is actually slow but why would everyone use
it () its symple simple ya simple ()its simple it is standard get it
they are really stupid nassa switched to windows and now has 6x there staff and IT personall but they do a lot of restarting there computers
so why do they use it

standard everyone knows how to use it already and so they dont
care if they have a working system now a mac would and is far 
superiour for the kinda work they do there () simulations () course plotting
() a mac practilly repares itself but that not what they use the use the 
less cose or if u will lower quality it doesent even occure to them they would save time and work would go up progress would go up only if they used a mac

() so see
the only real thing windows has is it has several diffrent platforms it will work on and is defalt for many in the nation () there is nothing u can do about it


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

first off not even microsoft uses there own system for making games
(he thinks he a lot)
but let me give u a example

the quarkie keyboard is used the most around the world
its not the fastest it is actually slow but why would everyone use
it () its symple simple ya simple ()its simple it is standard get it
they are really stupid nassa switched to windows and now has 6x there staff and IT personall but they do a lot of restarting there computers
so why do they use it

standard everyone knows how to use it already and so they dont
care if they have a working system now a mac would and is far 
superiour for the kinda work they do there () simulations () course plotting
() a mac practilly repares itself but that not what they use the use the 
less cose or if u will lower quality it doesent even occure to them they would save time and work would go up progress would go up only if they used a mac

() so see
the only real thing windows has is it has several diffrent platforms it will work on and is defalt for many in the nation () there is nothing u can do about it



do me a favor, run super pi to the 1m real quick and post a screenshot. If that wont work run aquamark 3, or any other universal benchmark then let me know that scores your uber fast, nothing is better mac is putting up.


----------



## Anzen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OJX*

Mac OSX will be cool next year when it comes to pentium


Change that Pentium into "x86-architecture".
But yes, it will be easier to port things to the Mac when it uses an x86-architecture.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

do me a favor, run super pi to the 1m real quick and post a screenshot. If that wont work run aquamark 3, or any other universal benchmark then let me know that scores your uber fast, nothing is better mac is putting up.


http://www.apple.com/science/benchmarks/

apple already did that themselves but that is g5 hmmm (it broke the super computer limit for a reason ITS FASTER THEN most every platform out there (only Personal Computers)

super computers are faster then it in some occasions

P.S did u guys check out the (.mov) quicktime movie i posted







-good-


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fellfromgrace*

I disagree with you still, at least on Macs being cheaper for a company to use other then PC's..

One thing you did not take into account for is the fact that most people grow up being trained on PC's and not Macs. As well as being trained to fix PC's and not Macs..

If a company was to convert do you have ANY idea how much money that company would have to spend to train ALL of their employees including MIS about the use/uses of a mac.

Trust me you seem like a really smart guy and had some really good points in that long post. BUT the fact is companies as a whole are alot smarter then you and me both. IF it made economical sence for them to convert to MACS they would have allready.

So I guess my point is, you can type up all the long posts you want to, with all your brilliant concepts but its useless. Those companies have allready thought over a million times what your screaming. And everytime they think about it they have come to the same logical conclusion that PC's are better for their needs.

Now I will say that some companies definately would benefit from using Macs over pc's, (companies that do graphic arts and various other "artsy" things) but those companies are few far and in between compared to your average old company. And trust me I'm sure those companies allready do use Macs


o ya i missed this one well lets see how do i put it o i got it
you are at home and just turned 18years old
and you decide to but a car well lets see there is only honda and foard to buy you car from u decide to get honda becouse 80% of
the world has hondas and they cost 1000$
(bear with me here it has a point and is a story jeez)
but the ford cost 1500$ well so u buy a honda
but all the sudden u realize the engine has to be
cleaned 4 times a year (defragmenting)
u have to switch the intake valves and lots of other
parts but then u realize that all you have to
do is take it to a repare shop and they will
fix any problems u had with it (upgrade)
luckly most of the little adons u got still work
oh you engine is slowing down the more u use it and
the belt brakes a lot but thats alright u have several
backups (a repository of software for reparing your system)
well the next problem has come up the your car only
hits 100rpm why neyboring cars reach 130rpm so what 
do u do well i can replace the engine i know i only have had it
3 years but its replacible ahh so u replace it (tech only u 
have to know what you are doing and uasly people will just get a 
new computer) any way so u replace it oh crud the bolts dont fit
(drivers) ahh well i will take em out and replace them to
there now im as fast as them hay there cars are using a diffrent 
type of shell now hmm (XP,98-95,3.2,dos,longhorn) so u
replace the casing that u have it only takes a small amout
of time crud for some reason my speakers dot work and my engine is having problems with the bolts again ahh fixed now for a
repare shop. 
see what i mean its not the computers falt its windows OH K 3.2 & dos arnt as bad off as the others but the others are pritty bad any way a mac is like buying a ford lets say u bought a ford now the tale ios diffrent

ok ahh crud i cant change the engine oh well at least i can
use my little addons what they don't work (software)
well what do u know this car gets 80rpm's and whooowe up to 190 mph
why in the world good gas mialge to hmm but i cant use any of thoes wonderful items for my car i can customize the inside now (mac os x)
and it has a burgler alarm where the cars is covered in a cona of electrisity cool to bad i cant use all those little attchments and items for the car built buy everyone but look at this it comes with all the neet little feachers inside rader star and several features that i would of added on
to my honda and now i dont have to worry
see its not all that, its very simple, but some people will think otherwise
and as for price on that matter i was telling u you have to buy extras for
windows mac comes with several
o course u can down load some freebes but tharnt as good as macs (uasly)


----------



## redmonster13

http://www.apple.com/science/benchmarks/

I believe I said something about "universal " benchmarks. I have never heard of those benches before, I want to know how fast a g5 runs super pi to the 1m. If this is something that cant be dont then just tell me the scores of g5 or 4 or 3 or whatever to figure any of these benches, super pi, sisoft sandra, aquamark3 (cpu score), 3d mark 05, I think we are all aware that macs use a differant OS however I thought I read somewhere that they have a windows emulator you can use.


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## Jazino

fords are lame and so is your grammar. i have very little clue what your talking about much of the time. clearly we are not going to all trade in our pc's which seems to be what you want. most everyone agrees macs are great machines anyway, so why dont you give a bit and recognize that pcs are part of our culture right now for good and bad.


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jazino*

fords are lame and so is your grammar. i have very little clue what your talking about much of the time. clearly we are not going to all trade in our pc's which seems to be what you want. most everyone agrees macs are great machines anyway, so why dont you give a bit and recognize that pcs are part of our culture right now for good and bad.



Jazino said it right, we aren't all going to march right down to the local Apple store and get new computers. I think if anyone here wanted one they would probably find a way to get one. We all agree that macs are good computers, so please give the bad grammer and spelling a break.

BTW Jazino, great avatar.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

Jazino said it right, we aren't all going to march right down to the local Apple store and get new computers. I think if anyone here wanted one they would probably find a way to get one. We all agree that macs are good computers, so please give the bad grammer and spelling a break.

BTW Jazino, great avatar.


im not asking that u do () heck u would have to be stupid to get rid of a computer im just pointing out facts

fact 1 . apples are supercomputers in there own right (g5 only)
fact 2 . the only reason that there is a windows and that they have such a high amount of share is becouse it is standard in America and people will toss one if there not tech (knowalgible) and the amount bought and tossed is stupendis. ( A lot Bieng TOsed)
fact 3 . Sinc apple makes the system and hardware togeher it is bound to be a perfit fit and hit top speeds a lot
fact 4 . Apples cost less in the end becouse of the time cumsuption and money to keep it running
fact 5 . windows system are virus full and not secure (unless u don't connect them to the internet) (even tho there not secure still)unlike macs witch are much safet to use
fact 6 . apples have 2 systems to learn if u want to use them bothe (not counting hardcoded unix,BDS, or c-) windows have several not counting (hardcoded dos) they have windows 3.5 , windows 95-98 , windows me,
windows xp , longhorn , windows 2000 , see
fact 7 . windows systems are as easy to leatn as a mac system but there is so many u will learn one then anothe will come out of production
fact 8 . im a bad speller i get D's in english and grammer (not reading A+)
fact 9 . i need a break hold on

fact 10 . a mac system is as customizeable as a windows just much safer
unless ure stupid like in windows and maby delete one of the needed files
fact 11 . a mac system comes with soft ware that would cost 600 $ if there was no mac company just windows and it was created for windows (windows finnaly comes with a movie maker program)
fact 12 . a mac system defrags itself indexes itself it even repares it self 
P.S windows doesent do that
fact 13 . a mac system is perfact for a family or business becouse u buy 5 
licences for 189$ (rounded) a windows cost 89$ a computer and it is computer set on one only as soon as u install it
fact 14 . u have to buy software for a windows all the time but it is outdated in a few days
fact 15 . not even microsoft devolops it's software on a windows platform
they will test it on one < but they build it on a mac system
fact 16 . even BILL GATES said that macs are the future
fact 17 . a mac is much easier devoloping platform for (unix,c++- in progress not quiet yet so a windows platform still has that one-,c,c-, BDS. for now?
fact 18 . a mac platform is customizeable HARDWARE in (tower models)
fact 19 . a mac platform alows u to repare the system without loosing any files by completely removing it and reinstalling it not to mention (partisioning , basic repars) also it has the ability to have multiple systems 
_to many idiots think otherwize this inclues linux,unix(tecnally already there),redhat,sever others many cernals,
fact 20 . a mac has a life of uaisly 6 years

see im just estiblishing facts nothing more i really dont car what system u operate on (your funeral -not applies to users reading this on a any computer thats not a windows- but please just stop guessing that windows are better just becouse so many use it (all linux users know this buy hart)

any way its just that if u realy listen buy a mac mini it cost so little 
if u already have a screen u might come to 550 $ or 650$ but u can burn cds on it so atleast use it for that 
but u should try it befor u knock it please 
its my point k

so all those who think otherwize should seariosly 
look its just i want u to use it here for those who want to take my chalenge 
use a mac mini for a month and no other computers at home 
just a mac and after a month of using it and getting use to it then come back

IF U TAKE THE CHALLENGE TELL ME please!

thanku for your time (read it )


----------



## Jori

fact 1 . apples are supercomputers in there own right (g5 only) Err.. No they arnt, they can be considered Supercomputers in some circumstances but not really... Supercomputers are basically even more complex servers..
fact 2 . the only reason that there is a windows and that they have such a high amount of share is becouse it is standard in America and people will toss one if there not tech (knowalgible) and the amount bought and tossed is stupendis. ( A lot Bieng TOsed) I have Windows XP and I havent had problems with it at all, except overclocking issues.
fact 3 . Sinc apple makes the system and hardware togeher it is bound to be a perfit fit and hit top speeds a lot Err.. IBM makes the processors, and its a fact that the Intel processors run Mac OSX better than the G5.
fact 4 . Apples cost less in the end becouse of the time cumsuption and money to keep it running <- *** hell no, only if you dont know how to keep maintenance.
fact 5 . windows system are virus full and not secure (unless u don't connect them to the internet) (even tho there not secure still)unlike macs witch are much safet to use Err.. I havent gotten a single virus yet, spyware yes, but only 1-2 a month.
fact 6 . apples have 2 systems to learn if u want to use them bothe (not counting hardcoded unix,BDS, or c-) windows have several not counting (hardcoded dos) they have windows 3.5 , windows 95-98 , windows me,
windows xp , longhorn , windows 2000 , see Dude there practically all the same layout soo.. whatever.
fact 7 . windows systems are as easy to leatn as a mac system but there is so many u will learn one then anothe will come out of production Read above post.
fact 8 . im a bad speller i get D's in english and grammer (not reading A+)
fact 9 . i need a break hold on

fact 10 . a mac system is as customizeable as a windows just much safer
unless ure stupid like in windows and maby delete one of the needed files *** just shut it now, Windows only goes bad because the user is stupid, can happen on a mac to.
fact 11 . a mac system comes with soft ware that would cost 600 $ if there was no mac company just windows and it was created for windows (windows finnaly comes with a movie maker program) Open Source software.. Besides Macs are built for image and movie's so duh.
fact 12 . a mac system defrags itself indexes itself it even repares it self 
P.S windows doesent do that Its called chdsk, of course you have to assign it to do it, but oh well, it still works.
fact 13 . a mac system is perfact for a family or business becouse u buy 5 
licences for 189$ (rounded) a windows cost 89$ a computer and it is computer set on one only as soon as u install it Its called Corporate, you buy it, and its good for infinate licenses.
fact 14 . u have to buy software for a windows all the time but it is outdated in a few days ***? Its called updates dip.
fact 15 . not even microsoft devolops it's software on a windows platform
they will test it on one < but they build it on a mac system Whats your point? Just a computer.
fact 16 . even BILL GATES said that macs are the future Doubt it much so.
fact 17 . a mac is much easier devoloping platform for (unix,c++- in progress not quiet yet so a windows platform still has that one-,c,c-, BDS. for now? Err.. Oh well whatever.
fact 18 . a mac platform is customizeable HARDWARE in (tower models) PC'S ARE TOO!!! OMG!
fact 19 . a mac platform alows u to repare the system without loosing any files by completely removing it and reinstalling it not to mention (partisioning , basic repars) also it has the ability to have multiple systems 
_to many idiots think otherwize this inclues linux,unix(tecnally already there),redhat,sever others many cernals, Err from what I got, you mean dual boot.. You can do that on a PC, plus for Windows its called pop in your system disk, and go to repair... It doesnt delete any of your files, just repairs them.
fact 20 . a mac has a life of uaisly 6 years Wow? I have a AMD K6-2 from Compaq that has been running faithfully for 7 years now, and its not showing signs of dying.

Sure, macs are great, but they lack speed in games because they simply arnt built for them. Plus the graphics cards cost about 1.5 x as much as a PC's. Now stop boasting about mac, get over it, they dont overclock, were on a overclocking forum, and they barely can upgrade (what.. RAM..)

Edit: Oh yeah, we have mac mini's at my school. They arnt that impressive, significantly slower than this Sempron ill tell you that much. And dont go off like oh your just fanboy, because guess what? I used the freakin thing and it took its dear sweat time loading crap.


----------



## MAXX

WOW you guys sure go out on a limb to point stuff out. Hey im down for a mac section. This is my interpitation, MACs seem to be able to optimze the hardware better than windows can do with its making macs faster with lower clock speeds and they are also very user friendly. But one thing about being user friendly is i have just recently well about 4 months ago talked my dad into getting my grandma an Ibook. Long story short if yur over the age of 65 you will never learn how to use a computer well maby a few but trust me i have spent countless hours with her and on the phone. PC are great, they are really universal and can be messed around with. I use PCs cuz i game. If you are doing video editing or Adobe stuff get a mac, plain and simple. TAH TAH.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MAXX*

WOW you guys sure go out on a limb to point stuff out. Hey im down for a mac section. This is my interpitation, MACs seem to be able to optimze the hardware better than windows can do with its making macs faster with lower clock speeds and they are also very user friendly. But one thing about being user friendly is i have just recently well about 4 months ago talked my dad into getting my grandma an Ibook. Long story short if yur over the age of 65 you will never learn how to use a computer well maby a few but trust me i have spent countless hours with her and on the phone. PC are great, they are really universal and can be messed around with. I use PCs cuz i game. If you are doing video editing or Adobe stuff get a mac, plain and simple. TAH TAH.


Bleh macs are overrated IMO.. For video or adobe you have to have alot of RAM unless its just light work, and the mac wont do it any faster than a PC can, plus they cost alot for what little they give. Like I said, I used a mac mini, and this sempron at stock runs faster...


----------



## MAXX

I do tend to agry with the Adobe stuff cuz ever seence i put another gig of ram and have OCed my cpu to 4.0 it will kill a mac in photoshop or illustrator.

Edit: you have to agre with the grandma thing though i mean come on, LOL.


----------



## Jazino

id love to see where bill gates said macs were the future.


----------



## redmonster13

I put a second gig of ram in my rig and now it runs photoshop faster than my buddies g4 that he uses at work. When he has to do any graphic work for the paintball teams website he does it on my rig instead of the g4, I am talking about a graphic designer who had only used macs until he started doing work on my machine, now he is saving to get a PC for himself.


----------



## radbirts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

I put a second gig of ram in my rig and now it runs photoshop faster than my buddies g4 that he uses at work. When he has to do any graphic work for the paintball teams website he does it on my rig instead of the g4, I am talking about a graphic designer who had only used macs until he started doing work on my machine, now he is saving to get a PC for himself.


True graphic designers never use PC, my dad is 1, and he doesn't know any that likes PC better for it. Even I like it better, and I don't even really know much at all about graphic design!


----------



## redmonster13

he just did the park page for our site last week, www.emergepaintball.com , and trust me he is a "real" graphic designer. He just isnt a deciple of steve.

I will let you guys know when he finishes the rest of the artwork for the site and you can look for yourself.


----------



## radbirts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

he just did the park page for our site last week, www.emergepaintball.com , and trust me he is a "real" graphic designer. He just isnt a deciple of steve.


Eh... he went against a lot of the rules...


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## redmonster13

yeah, he does that, nice work though dont you think?


----------



## zenoen

my own quote needs some saying and explaining so i will explaine.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

fact 1 . apples are supercomputers in there own right (g5 only) Err.. No they arnt, they can be considered Supercomputers in some circumstances but not really... Supercomputers are basically even more complex servers..

yes they are in several points let me xplaine-a bit super computers are mor then servers there whole lot of processors and servers trancfiring data working togeher to do caculations now there mesered by MOTOPS ( MILIONS OF THEODRETICAL OPERATIONS PER SECOND)
a http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html now a mac g5 made the requirments for a super computer so it was one the had to raize the requirements becouse of this fact now to extraplate check out the link
so supercomputers are not meshered by Ghz so that is 1 now to continu down the list also there was a movie to show u what a real supercomputer does mac ( compaired to others that are supercomputers)
http://www.apple.com/hardware/video...iatech_320.html

fact 2 . the only reason that there is a windows and that they have such a high amount of share is becouse it is standard in America and people will toss one if there not tech (knowalgible) and the amount bought and tossed is stupendis. ( A lot Bieng TOsed) I have Windows XP and I havent had problems with it at all, except overclocking issues.

you say well let me ask you have u been using it to surf the web play games update load down with images a lot, listen if u have to reboot your computer 1 a day becouse it freezes then its already bad
seccond you are computer knowalgible your not a every day user (he overclocks it) so i realy dont bieleve you and im shure you know that people toss there comp all the time when it brakes down SYSTEM WIZE
maby they will take it to be repared instead but it still is a bad thing that happens and ends up costing you.
P.S i have seen many bieng tossed, so dont even say u havent seen one bieng tossed, becouse its bull! (unless you dont go anywhere then u might havent seen it on the curb)

fact 3 . Sinc apple makes the system and hardware togeher it is bound to be a perfit fit and hit top speeds a lot Err.. IBM makes the processors, and its a fact that the Intel processors run Mac OSX better than the G5.

software and hardware have to work togeher for profection mac has been engeneered for both processors intell more the the ibm g4 but that is becouse it was planned they announced that already so du
besides its the system working togeher in harmony with the hardware thats what i refer to 
and becouse there is so many platforms for windows there is a definite no perfect hardware for it becouse there is no way of including it in devoloping stages.

fact 4 . Apples cost less in the end becouse of the time cumsuption and money to keep it running <- *** hell no, only if you dont know how to keep maintenance.

i explained that in earlier refrence but lets say u dont have any system software for the computer just what comes with the package now there is now way of truly fixing it unless u reformat mac has the soft ware built in u can repare the disk form a cd even and partition 
no need for partison magic. 
also this is refering to basic usage not advance usage he doesent know how to keep matince he is not aloud to index,defrag,or change any major system configurations, when it brakes down u cant fix it at that point
but a mac u can with system restore

fact 5 . windows system are virus full and not secure (unless u don't connect them to the internet) (even tho there not secure still)unlike macs witch are much safet to use Err.. I havent gotten a single virus yet, spyware yes, but only 1-2 a month.

hmm no virus u know of, or spieware , (that doesent mean its not there?)
also if u do have one of those things thay run in background not in open plaine site also he can be hacked extreamly easy just becouse u dont know it doesent mean it hasent happened already hec i could hack windows xp and 98 thats how bad security is now certian (fierwalls) will help but 
he hasent told me if a basic user would know about them or care, witch he wouldent care, to touch them it should be completely safe at all times
hec my grampa got a virus why playing w3 he was in a game WHat
is wrong its open to th public Also certian internet providers provide a lot of protection so what does he have (just doesent matter with a mac no virus built for mac os x that work (unless alowed by user)) oh there was that manuell virus i got and i quote" please understand your computer has a virus u mist manualy delete all files you have on your computer 
and after your done the virus is gone delete it also LOL"

fact 6 . apples have 2 systems to learn if u want to use them bothe (not counting hardcoded unix,BDS, or c-) windows have several not counting (hardcoded dos) they have windows 3.5 , windows 95-98 , windows me,
windows xp , longhorn , windows 2000 , see Dude there practically all the same layout soo.. whatever.

ok to explain have u ever used diffrent operatin systems for windows its easy to adapt to the new windows always but the same could be said about mac just the systems run diffrntly and some diffrent software just to point its as easy to learn mac then to learn those just a point

fact 7 . windows systems are as easy to leatn as a mac system but there is so many u will learn one then anothe will come out of production Read above post.

its true u will finally have complete mastery of all its fetures in programing and system stuff then a new system is on tit's way i have seen it

fact 8 . im a bad speller i get D's in english and grammer (not reading A+)

tyhat explains all spelling mistakes so stop bothering me about my spelling 
im going to make mistake (im only human) ythe importiant point is u understand the word

fact 9 . i need a break hold on

no i dont its a fraud

fact 10 . a mac system is as customizeable as a windows just much safer
unless ure stupid like in windows and maby delete one of the needed files *** just shut it now, Windows only goes bad because the user is stupid, can happen on a mac to.

i was point ing out mac is just as customizeable apperance wize
u know aqua interface is defalt
and it has 3 majors libary,system,users,
u can mess up any thing in those files just like windows 
DU the user A lot of times IS stupid
its just safer and wont let u screw yourself over like in linux or windows by doing something harmless

fact 11 . a mac system comes with soft ware that would cost 600 $ if there was no mac company just windows and it was created for windows (windows finnaly comes with a movie maker program) Open Source software.. Besides Macs are built for image and movie's so duh.

mor then that but i will not contest the point that is exactly what the user might want to experminte with but cant becouse it doesent come eith the hardware it is software that costs a lot for windows to even get to that level of complexity in vido and adio and visuall aid and easy interface

fact 12 . a mac system defrags itself indexes itself it even repares it self 
P.S windows doesent do that Its called chdsk, of course you have to assign it to do it, but oh well, it still works.

i have herd of this it doesent do much its a junkie that doesent really do any good its a rip of macos x any way (windows is always coping mac so they can get close to them (if u havent noticed this u reall nedd to do some reserach from graphich interfac in the biggining to aqua with xp and several others 
they would of stayed with 2000 but aqua came out and they wanted it lik as good as mac failed but wanted)

fact 13 . a mac system is perfact for a family or business becouse u buy 5 
licences for 189$ (rounded) a windows cost 89$ a computer and it is computer set on one only as soon as u install it Its called Corporate, you buy it, and its good for infinate licenses.

ya but what about a small company du they arnt a huge business just a small company and maby 7 people work there mac has a perfect way for that and seriously u need to start some where

fact 14 . u have to buy software for a windows all the time but it is outdated in a few days ***? Its called updates dip.

no. u buy the cd and then its usless updates add mor then just that
spi ware is added with updates and viruses some times slip through
a mac is safe and i mean it is outdated quickly think of me people bought for that then all the sudden xp came out and there software wouldent work on it (maby some times it did_but mostly it had problems)

fact 15 . not even microsoft devolops it's software on a windows platform
they will test it on one < but they build it on a mac system Whats your point? Just a computer.

no! they dont even use the computer system they bilt
have you ever seen a level of a game made buy a person who doesent bother to check if it will work properly or not i have its not pritty
if even microsoft wont use there own software then why do u use it 
it simple it doesent work relibley enough

fact 16 . even BILL GATES said that macs are the future Doubt it much so.

he did <i say it in a quote ill get it

fact 17 . a mac is much easier devoloping platform for (unix,c++- in progress not quiet yet so a windows platform still has that one-,c,c-, BDS. 
for now? Err.. Oh well whatever.

if u devolope software its importiant shesh just becouse u dont devolope software doesent mean its unimportiant

fact 18 . a mac platform is customizeable HARDWARE in (tower models) PC'S ARE TOO!!! OMG!

it was a simple explanition that macs used to not be customizeable hardware wize now they are (du ovcorse PC's are becous the system is windows that supports all the junk ware and the good hard ware and the best hardware that comes with a mac (hmm. wonder why)

fact 19 . a mac platform alows u to repare the system without loosing any files by completely removing it and reinstalling it not to mention (partisioning , basic repars) also it has the ability to have multiple systems 
_to many idiots think otherwize this inclues linux,unix(tecnally already there),redhat,sever others many cernals, Err from what I got, you mean dual boot.. You can do that on a PC, plus for Windows its called pop in your system disk, and go to repair... It doesnt delete any of your files, just repairs them.

well dule boot isint avilble on a mac at the moment it does run severl one systems tho
it was a copied idea from mac mac had it first in os 9
also it doesent get rid of viruses all the time or completely repar your drive 
wonder why becouse you hd is falling apart and even if u do use
it correctly its to late by that time and u loose all your extras u installed into the system when u do that on a mac you dont becouse on a mac it repaces files 1 buy 1 unlike windows that replaces the folder right that
is what it essently does right and its worthless it would be better to format your drive becouse it wont fix everything completely

fact 20 . a mac has a life of uaisly 6 years Wow? I have a AMD K6-2 from Compaq that has been running faithfully for 7 years now, and its not showing signs of dying.

you upgraded its hardware its not still using what it came with 
i know your dirty little secreate u also spent tons keeping it uptodate
and dont say u didnt becouse i know your tipe
i have had a g3 un upgraded and its as good as the day i(hardware wize fine hapy not i did mess up the case by carring it arround to much
ti has a handle that is about ready to brake

>Sure, macs are great, but they lack speed in games because they simply >arnt built for them. Plus the graphics cards cost about 1.5 x as much as a >PC's. Now stop boasting about mac, get over it, they dont overclock, >were on a overclocking forum, and they barely can upgrade (what.. >RAM..)

BUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

mines overclocked heck a if any good games are bilt they will come for bolth platforms most arnt good and dont say otherwize i already posted on that topic a while back i made a list even look back please they come with top graphics cards already installed gegorce and ati redian 9200
as for ram 1GB ram cards are built in pluss the ram chips that u dont know about (most people are unedicuated about bolth systems and i have been doing reserch for years on them dont even try this bull.

Edit: Oh yeah, we have mac mini's at my school. They arnt that impressive, significantly slower than this Sempron ill tell you that much. And dont go off like oh your just fanboy, because guess what? I used the freakin thing and it took its dear sweat time loading crap.


its as small as a disk drive the school probally got the cheep ones (less ram) and also it is not a desktop computer its like a laptop portible 
shesh i guess u didnt realize that a macmini is used for testing out the operating system not the hardware (and it can burn cds and dvds so where u get off sayinf its slow is easy to show why its not a desktop)

so i end my reply and wait for a rebuddal take my month on a macmini chalange and test the opperating system


----------



## zenoen

Early Benchmarks: Dual-Core G5 vs. Old Dual 2.5ghz G5.
By Jack D. Miller - Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005
How do the new single-processor, dual-core PowerMac G5s compare to older generation dual CPU PowerMacs? The dual-core chips are honkers, speed demons, quick, fast, etc.

It doesnâ€™t take long for the Mac community to figure out ways to benchmark new hardware from Apple.

The new dual-core PowerMacs have already been â€˜benchmarkedâ€™ and compared to previous models. Click Here for a look at typical test results using Xbench.

The only models of the new dual-core chip available are the single-processor 2.0ghz PowerMac and the single processor 2.3ghz PowerMac. The dual processor, dual-core chip PowerMac G5 is due to ship next month.

How do the new single-processor, dual-core chips compare to older, dual CPU PowerMacs? Pretty good, actually.

I took the test results from the link above, and ran a comparison Xbench test on my own dual 2.5ghz CPU PowerMac. My numbers are similar to those in the original benchmark test comparing the single processor, dual-core chips to dual processor, single-core chips (new vs. old).

CPU Test: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 114.32 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 101.55 
2.5 ghz Dual (old): 122.25 
Jackâ€™s 2.5ghz Dual: 126.27
As you can see, a single CPU with the new dual-core IBM PowerPC chip, even at a lower clock speed, is almost as fast as my year old 2.5ghz PowerMac with two chips.

Thread test: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 113,74 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 96,91 
2.5 ghz Dual: 125,90 
Jackâ€™s 2.5 ghz Dual: 121.19

Memory test: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 121,99 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 110,32 
2.5 ghz Dual: 103,73 
Jackâ€™s ghz 2.5 Dual: 104.51

Quartz graphics: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 126,64 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 107,07 
2.5 ghz Dual: 125,76 
Jackâ€™s ghz 2.5 Dual: 118.98

Open GL: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 135,38 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 113,27 
2.5 ghz Dual: 125,63 
Jackâ€™s 2.5 ghz Dual: 155.31

My PowerMac G5 has the stock ATI Radeon 9600 XT with 128 megs of VRAM. The 2.0ghz PowerMac has 128 megs of GDDR SDRAM but is the NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE. The dual 2.3ghz model has the same graphics card but with 256megs of GDDR SDRAM.

User Interface: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 121,58 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 118,98 
2.5 ghz Dual: 99,94 
Jackâ€™s 2.5 ghz Dual: 106.09

Disk Test: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 66,0 
2.0 ghz Dualcore 82,3 (RAID-1) 
2.5 ghz Dual: 69,3 
Jackâ€™s 2.5 ghz Dual: 57.57

The hard drive in my older PowerMac is the stock SATA model. I have a 120gig RAID setup but did not test Xbench on that hard drive.

TOTALS: 
2.3 ghz Dualcore: 108,7 (winner!) 
2.0 ghz Dualcore: 103,1 
2.5 ghz Dual: 105,9 
Jackâ€™s 2.5 ghz Dual: 103.89

The low-end, single-processor, dual-core PowerMac G5 which sells for $1,000 less than what I paid for my dual CPU PowerMac G5 a year ago, is about the same speed. One chip vs. two chips.

These results are not definitive, of course. Iâ€™ve never been a big fan of Xbench as results are often inconsistent on the same machine simply running different tests. However, itâ€™s close enough to give you an idea of whatâ€™s there.

These dual-core chips are about as fast, at lower clock speeds, as the older dual CPU PowerMacs.

The new high-end, dual-processor PowerMac G5 with dual-core chips should be a screamer.

thats some benchmarks for you from babe
who uses mac


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

so i end my reply and wait for a rebuddal take my month on a macmini chalange and test the opperating system


During the summer I worked for a company in Indianapolis. Due to the shortage of workstations, I was relegated to a linux box(suse), and a mac mini(OSX). I used the mac for over a month and came away with even more disdain for apple computers. There is nothing special about a mac mini.


----------



## radbirts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

During the summer I worked for a company in Indianapolis. Due to the shortage of workstations, I was relegated to a linux box(suse), and a mac mini(OSX). I used the mac for over a month and came away with even more disdain for apple computers. There is nothing special about a mac mini.


Mac mini's aren't for power... hence "mini".


----------



## ColdSteel

I would like to chime in on this debate because I feel I can make an honest comparison as I own a PC, Ibook and Imac. I own both mac and pc and if I had to choose between the two I'd most definitely go with a pc. I do like macs and think there good machines but there far too expensive for what you get. Honestly the thing I like most about macs is the operating system definitely not the hardware. I've owned several desktop pcs in the past and another Imac in the past and my kids all use macs at school. Simple test is asking my kids which they prefer because there young and don't have much preference and they actually were taught to use computers on macs. Every pc I've owned they 've preferred over any mac. There reasons are simple to them they say macs are slower and alot of software isn't mac compatible. If I could insall OSX on my custom built PC and it were as compatible with other software as windows it would be the best of both worlds. As far as macs being faster with motops and all lol I dont know but it definitel doesn't make them faster when doing most the stuff my family uses computers for i.e. gaming, surfing web and word processing. I feel macs are good and I hope that once they start using intel processors there prices drop a bit. However I enjoy modding my computer, building my own, overclocking and I feel they are jus as stable as macs if you know what the hell your doing. Bottom line both mac and pc are good but theres a reason macs only own 3
% of the computer market. I'm actually typing this on my ibook which I'll be selling to get a pc laptop because I can get alot more for my money with a pc laptop and I'd pay twice as much for a powerbook equivalent. Since I don't love mac enough to pay an additional $1000 I'll be staying pc.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

my own quote needs some saying and explaining so i will explaine.

its as small as a disk drive the school probally got the cheep ones (less ram) and also it is not a desktop computer its like a laptop portible 
shesh i guess u didnt realize that a macmini is used for testing out the operating system not the hardware (and it can burn cds and dvds so where u get off sayinf its slow is easy to show why its not a desktop)

so i end my reply and wait for a rebuddal take my month on a macmini chalange and test the opperating system


I get off saying its slow compared to my Sempron. Thats where. We really dont need a single mac preacher in here telling everyone to buy mac.. Because mac's dont game as well as pc's and will cost more to make a halfway decent system.. From what ive seen you dont get a high end card even with the G5. This is a PC/gaming forum practically, macs do what they do and they do it good, but at the same time they lack game support and hardware. Besides, I bet a X2 could give your dual G5 a run for its money.. Likely the G5 costs more to... And also oh noes it can burn cd's/dvds.. Oh god it has a DVD-RW/CD-RW drive.. That doesnt really matter.


----------



## bedhead9876

macs suck

pc's rock
espeacily amd's


----------



## xypex982

I would say get a mac for what it was orignally made for video/adio editing. Now you can kinda game on it, but don't really expect much. Like intel and amd each has it's domain intel has workstations and servers, amd is geared tword the oc'ers custom builders and gamers. Am I saying you can't game with an intel or mac.....no, but If you wanted to I would advise a pc perferbly an amd. Does a mac beat a pc...no becuse it does what it was made for so well. I have been in recording studios, and have seen them countless times on behind the music and stuff, and if they have a comp usually it's a mac. Now you probley aren't going to see a internet lan place with all macs, because people go there to game most of the time. Should Overclock.Net have a MAC section yes becuase we have a software section, a consol section and last time I heard you can't oc most consols except a few oldies, and the community of mac users is big enough to make a section. I hope it will allow more users to come here and even might share a word or twon on teir experince oc'ing macs (It is possible just alot harder than oc'ing a pc). I hope I have settled this, but have a feeling that I haven't and may get flamed.


----------



## radbirts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bedhead9876*

macs suck

pc's rock
espeacily amd's


That's REALLY unnecisary! But anyway, I agree that the hardware isn't the best, what I meant to say before is their OS I like better. I just think it's easier to use, for me anyway.


----------



## radbirts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xypex982*

I would say get a mac for what it was orignally made for video/adio editing. Now you can kinda game on it, but don't really expect much. Like intel and amd each has it's domain intel has workstations and servers, amd is geared tword the oc'ers custom builders and gamers. Am I saying you can't game with an intel or mac.....no, but If you wanted to I would advise a pc perferbly an amd. Does a mac beat a pc...no becuse it does what it was made for so well. I have been in recording studios, and have seen them countless times on behind the music and stuff, and if they have a comp usually it's a mac. Now you probley aren't going to see a internet lan place with all macs, because people go there to game most of the time. Should Overclock.Net have a MAC section yes becuase we have a software section, a consol section and last time I heard you can't oc most consols except a few oldies, and the community of mac users is big enough to make a section. I hope it will allow more users to come here and even might share a word or twon on teir experince oc'ing macs (It is possible just alot harder than oc'ing a pc). I hope I have settled this, but have a feeling that I haven't and may get flamed.


Very well put!! I agree w/ everything you said! Rep+ for you!


----------



## xypex982

Thanks, DANG NOW i don't have 69reps anymore....ohh well....finally I need only 10 more to make a thread on the wanted/selling section.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *radbirts*

Mac mini's aren't for power... hence "mini".


I never said they were. I was simply responding to zenoen's "challange".


----------



## mistformshadow

Firstly, I hate Mac's. To get things straight, I used a Mac in 3rd grade to play games. It had 3 colors, green, black and white. Maybe there were more, but I played 6 or 7 small games like Othello and a mini Chips Challenge type game. Quite something to entertain me. My grandmothers computer at home had 256 colors, and I also could play Doom and Duke Nukem. That's a jump. I also used a Mac as a sophomore and a junior in high school for digital video editing. That was a pain. That taught me how much worse a Mac was. I got the BSOD on my PC a few times previously, but waiting for 10 minutes just to find out that the Mac had locked itself up because I tried deleting a document that I couldn't figure out how to type and use cut and paste in. Macs are too messed up for me. How can you think it's easier?? I can be downloading *documents on my file sharing program, chatting with my friends across the globe, and playing my NES emulator at the same time. It takes me about 20 sec to start all of this. I tried to connect to the internet to find some info about iMovie on the Mac I was using. It had the same connection that the school did, and it took about 5 minutes to the first graphic on the page. The school had bought the computer new that year. If it wasn't new, they wouldn't have been able to put iMovie 10 and OSX on it either. Plus, the monitor (if that's what it's called for Macs) looked like someone had put Vaseline on it. Everything was fairly sharp, but had a nice little blurr to it. The best thing about the Mac was the case. It was airtight. I like airtight containers because pressure is good for pyrotechnics.

Now for more reasons about PC vs Mac. Not to bag on any political systems, this is simply an analogy to show the differences in Macs and PCs. Mac represents a monarchy system, and PCs a Democratic system(lets not differentiate between democrats and republicans because the US government is a complete mix of both). Now, in a monarchy there is a ruler (a King or Queen or both) who decides everything. They decide what is in and what is out. In a democracy, we have the power to choose (to some extent, but lets not get onto that part...) what we would like to have, and we work for that. Since I made a PC, I can add or upgrade my video card myself, change my ram to whatever brand or size I want, get internal or external hard drives when I need them. With a Mac, you get what you get. You can go ahead and buy extra storage devices for it.... but that's about it. They are SOFTWARE oriented, not hardware like PC's. More poeple look at numbers, and Microsoft has the numbers, therefore PC pwns the gaming industry. Macs are like laptops, except some laptops can be opened and modified. I had to use 2 different converters to get the video off of the camcorder and onto the Mac into iMovie. I can plug my camcorder into my PC, go to My Computer, and find everything right there.
I am sure that this has pissed a lot of Mac users off (if you even have read it this far) but these are simply my opinions expressed on Mac. I have a lot of opinions and if you want some more of them, I will kindly express







.


----------



## zenoen

first off all to set u stright about hardware a mac comes built in with top cards now how much qould that cost about 400$
lets say price is not real a mac actually is faster then a pc but there not used for gaiming becouse there is more games for pc's and more compatibility in some instinces (like doom3 , half - life) 
also about that one comment ()
if you dont got any usefull comments buttout
like (macs suck pcs rule)
P.S pc = personal computer = mac,intell,amd,ibm,ect
that was a usless waist of everybodys time

next part i explained befor and i quote
mini's arnt for power there like laptops for flexibility and
transportation

oh and aboout the comment about parties and politics
macs are not a monarchy becouse they work for the people
and windows are rulled by billgates what he says goes
next how can you trust such a hypocrit
and you are right about adio and vido editing 
macs cost more maby becouse it comes with top of the lin equitment 
that means no junkie 16 bit cards no fake register system

most of what windows has is based off the mac system
x = xp /7.5 = 95 / 98 = 9.0 
the consoles the software
and howabout the freez comment 
system 9.2 had less errors then pc any day
mac has less erors then windows any day
hardware is fine (im glad u got AMD BUT!)
AMD is running windows your AMD costs more then my mac
I OCED my mac so will the people who say it can't be done
SHUt) UP
previous comments about how it cant be don 
also u say your PC works fine
ok then your pc works fine but windows doesent 
just fess up all u know that most WINDOWS users are BIAS
and if u grow up on a mac with 3 colars then you are a liar
becouse the first mac to have colar came out with 3 colars(red,green,blue) and B&W
thats like old so u were using outdated software in the first place

and those gaming comments are answerd in previous posts if there good mac has em sept for a few that use the havoc engine)
oh did u know that every time microsoft takes a company over the games loose there value and a lot of employes leave bill gates doesent even care for seccurity
on there pcs my grampa is a pc user & windows user he prefers win 95 & dos & xp
so how is it that he when ever i come ofer is having 1 problem or another

it is just this if u use windows and like it then you are a defalt human
if u use a mac u are a exceptional person
linux is a smart person

look im going to show u what they dont tell you in WINDOWS SCHOOL
did u know that a windows system has 50,000 lines of code for ms-dos
http://www.jmusheneaux.com/index.html#Lines
this tells u more about the problems
http://www.jmusheneaux.com/index.html
look i may be a mac man but i will tell u i will never
have to tos my computer becouse even at 700 mh
it runs nicely and makes shure that i dont get a virus
heck im going to be learning linux becouse its much safer
then windows and its open source

bull is bill
bill is bull
he is rich and smart
by selling a fart
he gives you a car
that doesent get that far
he gives candy away
to kill u today
he is mr. gates
becouse of his rates
he is bill becouse of his kill

useing linux is better then paying 2000$ in repares and upgrades
and 1000$ in parts


----------



## Lostnhell

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

first off all to set u stright about hardware a mac comes built in with top cards now how much qould that cost about 400$......


 Man you are a good MAC user.
Bill GAtes has some ruling of the Apple empire and profits from every iPOD sell. MACs are good systems that are running on a Unix system which adds to the reliability and flexability of the machines, the only pitfalls are the pricetags and the the massively proprietary nature of the systems.

If you want a great OS try IBMvs.

The MAc section is included in the Linux, Unix and Mac section because they are all superior operating sytems.


----------



## tweako_420

maybe u should stop with the arguing?
you gave your opinion on why there should be a mac forum.
and thats should be it.
instead its turned into a argument of pc vs mac.
but that has nothing to do with the suggestion at hand.


----------



## Lostnhell

A MAc section is already in the forum as listed two posts below.


----------



## tweako_420

well then they should stop arguing anyway.. LoL


----------



## Lostnhell

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tweako_420*

well then they should stop arguing anyway.. LoL


 Yes, this thread was created before the decusion to incorperate the section chages were made, anyone who used this thread after that point were obviously not really looking at the forum.


----------



## The Bartender Paradox

Now look at the mess I've gotten us into. Oh well, at least now I got a MAC section.

In responce to the ENTIRE rest of the thread, except a select few (if you really want to know who, PM me)


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tweako_420*

maybe u should stop with the arguing?
you gave your opinion on why there should be a mac forum.
and thats should be it.
instead its turned into a argument of pc vs mac.
but that has nothing to do with the suggestion at hand.


what how can you even think that (much likly say it!)

i am having a good time
I don't know about everyone else
but i like to debate issues and relax
witch i do why i debate
so there is no need to stop in fact if we stop then i
will have nothing else to relax to

kinda funny is'int


----------



## dex100

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

what how can you even think that (much likly say it!)

i am having a good time
I don't know about everyone else
but i like to debate issues and relax
witch i do why i debate
so there is no need to stop in fact if we stop then i
will have nothing else to relax to

kinda funny is'int


no not really....


----------



## tweako_420

ya debating is all good and fun..
but if u read the forum heading it says suggestions not debate of mac vs pc..
u are off topic..
i dont think it really matters that u debate it but do it in the appropriate area


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tweako_420*

ya debating is all good and fun..
but if u read the forum heading it says suggestions not debate of mac vs pc..
u are off topic..
i dont think it really matters that u debate it but do it in the appropriate area


lets change the name of it then


----------



## tweako_420

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

lets change the name of it then


LoL i dont think that will happen..
u could just ask to get this sent to the operating system forum


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lostnhell*

Man you are a good MAC user.
Bill GAtes has some ruling of the Apple empire and profits from every iPOD sell. MACs are good systems that are running on a Unix system which adds to the reliability and flexability of the machines, the only pitfalls are the pricetags and the the massively proprietary nature of the systems.

If you want a great OS try IBMvs.

*The MAc section is included in the Linux, Unix and Mac section because they are all superior operating sytems.*


Purely opinion.. I think Windows is better, I have had no problems at all that wernt OC related with windows.. And Ive used OSX and Ubuntu.. OSX is simple and good yeah, but its different and I really dont think it offers that much more than Windows especially because im a gamer (so thus it offers nothing intriguing to me). Ubuntu I found stupidly hard to even attempt to install anything, and said screw it, ill never be using it and i'd rather be able to play games by not going through 5,000 steps.


----------



## dex100

same, sept I tried Pclinuxos..... I've never had any windows problems that probably weren't my own stupid falt...


----------



## chechenepiphany

I've had the same experience, only with SuSE. Its not bad, but I'd rather use windows and have drivers for everything.


----------



## zenoen

its not major problems that i was referring to it was minor but hay i understand

if you are taught windows it will come naturally if u use mac and are
not repressed from windows then u will want to use it

like that guy who spokeup earlier he was stuch using mac becouse he
couldent try windows anywhere and so when he finnaly switched

heck i like to paint becouse i wasent alowed to do it till i was15
so its more then oppinion but i addressed gaming earlier if its
good its uasly is avible for mac ("at fries garenteed"â„¢)

oh well next reply please and to keep it on topic i overclocked mi mac g3 100mgh
doesent soound like much cuz it isent my moddel cant handle much higher then that
but othes can


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

its not major problems that i was referring to it was minor but hay i understand

if you are taught windows it will come naturally if u use mac and are
not repressed from windows then u will want to use it

like that guy who spokeup earlier he was stuch using mac becouse he
couldent try windows anywhere and so when he finnaly switched

heck i like to paint becouse i wasent alowed to do it till i was15
so its more then oppinion but i addressed gaming earlier if its
good its uasly is avible for mac ("at fries garenteed"â„¢)

oh well next reply please and to keep it on topic i overclocked mi mac g3 100mgh
doesent soound like much cuz it isent my moddel cant handle much higher then that
but othes can


cool, so fry's has BF2 for mac?


----------



## BlazeR

hehe, mac trolling









I used a mac before, in middle school. I am the kind of person who tends to sway from the mainstream. Like cars (I love cars), I hate mustangs or fords in general cause everybody and their mother has one (mustangs), but compatibility makes me stay within the genre, basically speaking, gasoline (re. windows). Mac is like an electric car (fuel cell). If america implemented hydrogen depots at every gas station then everybody would be going to electric, until then, I am stickin with good ol' hydrocarbons.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlazeR*

hehe, mac trolling









I used a mac before, in middle school. I am the kind of person who tends to sway from the mainstream. Like cars (I love cars), I hate mustangs or fords in general cause everybody and their mother has one (mustangs), but compatibility makes me stay within the genre, basically speaking, gasoline (re. windows). Mac is like an electric car (fuel cell). If america implemented hydrogen depots at every gas station then everybody would be going to electric, until then, I am stickin with good ol' hydrocarbons.


a instring way of putting it but ill bite?

YA THEY HAVE GAMES AND SOFTWARE AT FRIES HEC THAT IS A EASY WAY TO PICK UP ALL U NEED there fries so why wouldent they have it
but any way the best deals are at apple.com or a apple store

hmf could of not yelled oh well im shure they will understand


----------



## redmonster13

so I looked into it and figured out what games are available for mac. I found out that they run OLD games. I guess we wont see the majority of people changing any time soon.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

so I looked into it and figured out what games are available for mac. I found out that they run OLD games. I guess we wont see the majority of people changing any time soon.


i will give a list stop complaining this is just one set there are others but 
this is one set
http://www.macgamestore.com/search.php?ProductType=SW
thats should give u a list 
search for others tons of people make share ware games and freeware games becouse its so easy with the devoloping kit (
that comes withe the computer
windows 95,98,2000, i know don't come with a devoloping software
any way just pointing out that fact oh and u can find all the old mac games u want to play here
http://mac.the-underdogs.org/index.php?show=alpha

so dont say things like that without checking out the facts and
all havoc engin games are not supported by macos x or 9
becouse the company is realy greedy and wanted so much money
for it it was worthless.


----------



## redmonster13

sorry, but I looked at the entire list and I think the newest thing I saw was doom3. So I would have to give up css, bf2, black&white2, Brothers in arms, basicly all the games I play? That just isnt going to happen. Thats a fact.

BTW shareware games blow.

and companies that arent greedy and wanting money arent companies, they are charities.

and you should be showing us how pimpin that mac is by folding.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Man, with games like "8th wonder of the world", and "101 Bally slots", who _wouldn't_ buy a mac?


----------



## chechenepiphany

And let's not forget those amazing mac video cards! I hear you can get a _6600 LE_ in the newest G5. These macs are so cutting edge, they already have PCI-express!


----------



## xypex982

I have seen macs oc, but don't you have to change like crystals or somthing? I used to use an apple II, and I had a crate full of games man it ruled.


----------



## Jori

Macs only selling point = operating system... How do you OC a mac though? I never new you could. In any case, there already a place for macs but i wouldnt be caught dead spending anything on a mac computer.. 80% (generous) use Window based computers.. So its kinda pointless to get to know how to use it unless your going to one of the few places that revolve around mac's or have one at home..


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Macs only selling point = operating system... How do you OC a mac though? I never new you could. In any case, there already a place for macs but i wouldnt be caught dead spending anything on a mac computer.. 80% (generous) use Window based computers.. So its kinda pointless to get to know how to use it unless your going to one of the few places that revolve around mac's or have one at home..


Far more than 80% of computer users use windows. Think ~94%.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

Far more than 80% of computer users use windows. Think ~94%.


Notice, generous.. I just didnt want Zeneon to have a mental breakdown







.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Notice, generous.. I just didnt want Zeneon to have a mental breakdown







.


I know, I know.


----------



## redmonster13

he will though, and I will get a headache trying to sort out the spelling errors.


----------



## BlazeR

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

a instring way of putting it but ill bite?

YA THEY HAVE GAMES AND SOFTWARE AT FRIES HEC THAT IS A EASY WAY TO PICK UP ALL U NEED there fries so why wouldent they have it
but any way the best deals are at apple.com or a apple store

hmf could of not yelled oh well im shure they will understand


Fries


----------



## redmonster13

haha


----------



## BlazeR

I tried to google it, but couldn't figure out if fries was a computer company or something.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlazeR*

I tried to google it, but couldn't figure out if fries was a computer company or something.


lol. Its a comp and miscellaneous tech store.


----------



## redmonster13

it looks like something you might find at Mcdonalds.


----------



## POGE

Macs are purrrrty.


----------



## zenoen

ok thats enough first off
YOU BIG LIAR SORRY TO YELL BUT HE IS
black&white does run on mac its on the list (bull removed)
pecents of mac platforms (avrige)
well thats a intresting question first we must take into account the amount
of computers that are there (currently bieng used)
seccond now we must avrige a percent well lets see
http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html (good source of history)
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/07/21/osx/index.php
(good buness source of companies that use mac)

here is a barrowed fact
But there is another advantage. Apple will have more than 2 years to work on the next MacOS X version, and it could be announced in the first half of 2007, just 6 months after Longhorn availability, putting Microsoft on yet another catch-up cycle.

If Apple hopes to take any marketshare from Microsoft, catching them unawares will be an essential part of that strategy. Microsoft has proven itself to be tenacious when under threat, so it would be in Apple's best interest to keep pressing, and not allow Microsoft to hold the title of the "newest and most modern OS" for very long. If Apple could pull this off, it would have the double effect of gaining a new customer, but also luring away Microsoft's valuable early adopter customer base. And where the early adopters go, the steady stream of regular users who listen to them will follow, as older PCs are decommissioned and replaced with 64 bit ones.

When a "switcher" chooses to install MacOS X on his PC, three things will happen:

Apple's market share grows up (percentage)
Microsoft's market share decreases (percentage)
Apple gets money for the license (Microsoft had already got the money)
But when a new PC is bought, and the buyer could choose the OS, and if he chooses MacOS X something different will happen:

Apple's market share grows up (percentage)
Microsoft's market share decreases (percentage)
Apple gets money for the license (Microsoft gets nothing)
If this scenario occurred the market would truly be shaken, and for 18 months whoever bought a new computer could choose between a brand new MacOS X Tiger, or a 64 bit version of plain old Windows XP (originally released in 2001).

look im just pointing out that times are changing and things are happing
andivebeenbuisythelastfewweekssoihaventbeenabletop ostrecently
any way just rember a windows is not increassing in market share
if things keep going the way ther goine then soon macs will have a bigger precentage

and so what if bill gets money from every i pod sale apple gets money from every i pod sale too
apple gets money from a lot of products microsoft sells (i think)
it really doesent matter either way the fact remains
mac is for the user and binusses
windows is for the money and gates


----------



## redmonster13

I do not lie, I didnt say black&white. I said black&white2 . You read about as well as you write apparently.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

I do not lie, I didnt say black&white. I said black&white2 . You read about as well as you write apparently.



fine so i made a mistake i was reading throw the posts and saw it but hay
if they have black&white for mac it only a matter of time till they have black&white2 and thats beside the point 
u still need to understand that why they may not have all the games
they have most (happy) of the good games ok

p.s i actually read extreamly good but sometimes people make mistakes and im sorry for that mistake it wasent ment to be

p.s.2 and that may be a true statment later in the future if not now


----------



## ColdSteel

Mac has some good games but by the time they make it to mac there old to everyone else. Not to mention video cards on Macs suck. There very behind on this regard. If they wanted to attract more gamers they should give upgraded video options on there systems i.e. the mac mini or the Imac or Emac. Right now you can upgrade the power mac but at outrageous prices compared to pc. Not to mention theres no good voice comms on mac for gamers such as Ventrillo or Team Speak. That alone will keep squads away from macs because voice comm. is essential to great gaming and competitive gaming.


----------



## POGE

Macs are PURRRTY. Just as good as a pc too. BUT. The big but. Yes, I know. BUT, most people use pcs. It just easier to follow the trend.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ColdSteel*

Mac has some good games but by the time they make it to mac there old to everyone else. Not to mention video cards on Macs suck. There very behind on this regard. If they wanted to attract more gamers they should give upgraded video options on there systems i.e. the mac mini or the Imac or Emac. Right now you can upgrade the power mac but at outrageous prices compared to pc. Not to mention theres no good voice comms on mac for gamers such as Ventrillo or Team Speak. That alone will keep squads away from macs because voice comm. is essential to great gaming and competitive gaming.


does ati readion 9200 suck 
pay attencen shesh! and people say i don't read well, in several previous postes it has been said thats macs are better visual computers

oh and there sopposed to come with the computer built in (ati readion 9200)
also but u can have a geforce top to 
now let me think

so you just said that

ATI Radeon X600 Pro or X600 XT - and i qoute suck

look at this
iMac G5's widescreen display is stunning. But even more stunning are the graphics capabilities behind it: a powerhouse PCI- Express-based ATI Radeon X600 Pro (17-inch model) or X600 XT (20-inch model) graphics processor with 128MB of DDR memory. Couple that with Mac OS X Tiger, the world's most advanced - and most graphics-savvy - operating system, and you have a system that delivers astounding 2D and 3D graphics performance and an immersive, photorealistic gaming experience.
Get Cinematic Perspective

The 17-inch widescreen iMac delivers a resolution of 1440 by 900 pixels on its flat-panel LCD screen, the same screen area as a 19-inch CRT monitor. The 20-inch widescreen iMac, with its 1680 by 1050 resolution, provides even more real estate - 36% more onscreen viewable area, to be exact, than the 17-inch iMac. Its 16:10 wide aspect ratio is perfect for watching DVD movies - on the built-in DVD Player - in their original format.

Spectacular 3D Effects
The iMac ships combat-ready with advanced graphics processing capability, thanks to the cutting-edge PCI Express ATI Radeon X600 Pro or X600 XT graphics processor with 128MB of dedicated video memory. Kicking your games and 3D graphics into high gear with its Quad-pipe architecture and high precision cinematic shaders, the ATI cards take full advantage of the graphics capabilities in Mac OS X Tiger for ultra-fast processing of complex per-pixel imaging operations - and a standout gaming experience.

Flights of Fancy
iMac G5 likes to show off its advanced graphics power, so it includes two mesmerizing games. Nanosaur 2 puts you atop a flying pterodactyl loaded with hi-tech weaponry, from which you can blast enemy dinos, save eggs or pit your skills against another dino pilot in two-player racing, battle or capture-the-flag competitions. Marble Blast Gold lets you race marbles through a three-dimensional world of powerful fans, whirling tornados, land mines, pinball-style bumpers, narrow catwalks, moving pistons and dizzying chasms.
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

does ati readion 9200 suck 
pay attencen shesh! and people say i don't read well, in several previous postes it has been said thats macs are better visual computers

oh and there sopposed to come with the computer built in (ati readion 9200)
also but u can have a geforce top to 
now let me think

so you just said that

ATI Radeon X600 Pro or X600 XT - and i qoute suck

look at this
iMac G5â€™s widescreen display is stunning. But even more stunning are the graphics capabilities behind it: a powerhouse PCI- Express-based ATI Radeon X600 Pro (17-inch model) or X600 XT (20-inch model) graphics processor with 128MB of DDR memory. Couple that with Mac OS X Tiger, the worldâ€™s most advanced â€" and most graphics-savvy â€" operating system, and you have a system that delivers astounding 2D and 3D graphics performance and an immersive, photorealistic gaming experience.
Get Cinematic Perspective

The 17-inch widescreen iMac delivers a resolution of 1440 by 900 pixels on its flat-panel LCD screen, the same screen area as a 19-inch CRT monitor. The 20-inch widescreen iMac, with its 1680 by 1050 resolution, provides even more real estate â€" 36% more onscreen viewable area, to be exact, than the 17-inch iMac. Its 16:10 wide aspect ratio is perfect for watching DVD movies â€" on the built-in DVD Player â€" in their original format.

Spectacular 3D Effects
The iMac ships combat-ready with advanced graphics processing capability, thanks to the cutting-edge PCI Express ATI Radeon X600 Pro or X600 XT graphics processor with 128MB of dedicated video memory. Kicking your games and 3D graphics into high gear with its Quad-pipe architecture and high precision cinematic shaders, the ATI cards take full advantage of the graphics capabilities in Mac OS X Tiger for ultra-fast processing of complex per-pixel imaging operations â€" and a standout gaming experience.

Flights of Fancy
iMac G5 likes to show off its advanced graphics power, so it includes two mesmerizing games. Nanosaur 2 puts you atop a flying pterodactyl loaded with hi-tech weaponry, from which you can blast enemy dinos, save eggs or pit your skills against another dino pilot in two-player racing, battle or capture-the-flag competitions. Marble Blast Gold lets you race marbles through a three-dimensional world of powerful fans, whirling tornados, land mines, pinball-style bumpers, narrow catwalks, moving pistons and dizzying chasms.
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html


Thats reeeaal nice.. Too bad the X600 isnt that great of a card... Thats like all the E-bay links on 5200's saying "The most realistic gaming experience you can get"...


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Thats reeeaal nice.. Too bad the X600 isnt that great of a card... Thats like all the E-bay links on 5200's saying "The most realistic gaming experience you can get"...











it can come with navida Gforce FX4500 too so thats not your only choice and some other drivers can now be installed (hmm forgot too mention that)

check it out here
http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html


----------



## redmonster13

oh my god, a x600xt, that is used as a low to mid laptop card now. look you need to face the fact that the gaming capabilities of a mac isnt that great. they may be used to build them but they damn sure cant be used to play the games to their full potential.

that is another one of those facts that you are so fond of quoting.


----------



## Jazino

this guy is brutle to read. everytime i see this thread updated i check it like a would a car wreck, this thread freakin sucks. and zenoen really needs to post once in another section or in my opinion he should be banned for being MAC SPAM.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

oh my god, a x600xt, that is used as a low to mid laptop card now. look you need to face the fact that the gaming capabilities of a mac isnt that great. they may be used to build them but they damn sure cant be used to play the games to their full potential.

that is another one of those facts that you are so fond of quoting.


i got a old article so it was a outdated fact but oh well cant say everything but i did put the correct card under it shesh u completly ingorned it and u also ingored the fact about installing other vivid cards is possible

u are not even saying the whole truth 
you are just grabbing what u can talk about and have proff that its bad
any way where was i

i like to post in this thread it is relaxing to disscuse mac and windows
what can i say i have fun doing it

also u completly ingorred

Jazino you are bias just becouse i have a diffrent bielef and wish to express it im not spaming becouse u can easily tell all i write is mostaly about reports and studies done people in schools are bieng brained washed to bieleve whatever is bieng used by everyone is got to be the best and 
i am not going to sit around and keep my knowalge to myself

u outnumber me by several but i hold my own becouse mac is better then windows, but it has been A, u buy the system and the hardware togeher and u couldent custimize it for the longest time but now u can and the world will start to use mac like microsoft is becouse it is better

bill is rich not becouse of me but becouse of u, he tricked and conned so many into bieleving that his system is better then mac but windows steels from mac all the time from the bigging they stole and and now they still do

i tell u people hate when others speek up aginst them becouse there scarred that others will prove them wrong and will mess up there life by
teaching the truth and so to end i will say

that the truth will set u free 
so 
USE THE SYSTEM OS X,LINUX,UNIX, but not windows becouse u will destroy 
yourselves with them SO GET RED HAT and forget about windows if u do then games will be for linux mac unix but not windows like a stack of cards
windows will fall.


----------



## Jazino

you have 35 posts and 34 and in your mindless defense of mac superiority which people here are generally not arguing. the 35th post was to help someone buy a mac (helpful is what this forum is suppsed to be). there just is no point to your rants and you have terrible grammar even for the interenet where some mistakes are accepted. we cant understand what you are saying. you are mac spam to this forum as of right now.

bill is not rich because he tricked and conned, he wa just smart enough and in the right place at the right time and used some good ole american business smack down on apple.


----------



## zenoen

so im mac spam just becouse i have problems with my spelling.
Becouse I don't spell well. Tell you what, I will work on my grammer.
I can type well i just have to type slower and be careful.

As for mac spam I was partisapating in a discussion and was in A
Debate with other consumers, but if you count all the remarks that I
had to reply to you will see that I was mostly contesting the authentisity
of there remarks.

If you look back you will see they did contest to macs supieority in the biginning and then after i brought up some of the facts i proved it's power.
as for microsofts remarks, "http://www.vcnet.com/bms/" i have been looking at this site and have found unbieleveable proof that microsoft is a
fraud and so is windows.

look im going to fix my grammer for you if thats ok then say so
the only reason it was bad was becouse i was rushing things and I
have had a bussy month I will refrain from not checking my grammer
in the future.

I have showed macs can overclock, they do have the best vidio editing technology (or in the top 5) , that they are used for the construction of games and music worldwide, and that they are faster then windows.

You can customize your mac just like a linux.
You have several programing languages right under your finget tips.
you can build your own app.'s for c-, c++, c, unix, pural, and a few others.
It comes with the computer. a software pakage that allows you to program 
cross-platform applications.

so I will curve my efforts to typing less and writting more accuratly (lol)
BUT im not a good speller so be encourging


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

so im mac spam just becouse i have problems with my spelling.
Becouse I don't spell well. Tell you what, I will work on my grammer.
I can type well i just have to type slower and be careful.

As for mac spam I was partisapating in a discussion and was in A
Debate with other consumers, but if you count all the remarks that I
had to reply to you will see that I was mostly contesting the authentisity
of there remarks.

If you look back you will see they did contest to macs supieority in the biginning and then after i brought up some of the facts i proved it's power.
as for microsofts remarks, "http://www.vcnet.com/bms/" i have been looking at this site and have found unbieleveable proof that microsoft is a
fraud and so is windows.

look im going to fix my grammer for you if thats ok then say so
the only reason it was bad was becouse i was rushing things and I
have had a bussy month I will refrain from not checking my grammer
in the future.

I have showed macs can overclock, they do have the best vidio editing technology (or in the top 5) , that they are used for the construction of games and music worldwide, and that they are faster then windows.

You can customize your mac just like a linux.
You have several programing languages right under your finget tips.
you can build your own app.'s for c-, c++, c, unix, pural, and a few others.
It comes with the computer. a software pakage that allows you to program 
cross-platform applications.

so I will curve my efforts to typing less and writting more accuratly (lol)
BUT im not a good speller so be encourging


Nice to see we have a official "oh I just signed up to defend mac to the death" guy.. Here rather, buy a mac for any serious editing (which almost no one here would do) an a PC for games, and regular usage... Oh wait, the pc does editing really fast to?...


----------



## game

I remember I was in a Mac store, and there's this little table with maybe 5 or 6 macs. I try one, has a Harry Potter game on it so I load it and would give it a shot. I was sitting there for five minues, the Mac was doing nothing at all, I thought it had frozen. So I walked away to look at the ipods, and *about 15 minutes later I noticed the game had started. *How old is that game it shouldn't take 15 minutes to load. The game played alright, though.


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Nice to see we have a official "oh I just signed up to defend mac to the death" guy.. Here rather, buy a mac for any serious editing (which almost no one here would do) an a PC for games, and regular usage... Oh wait, the pc does editing really fast to?...


Mac guy, you can't still couldn't type correctly to save your life.

Jori, Macs have their place in the computer world. Graphic Designers, Programmers, Video Editors, and others often prefer macs due to stability. When developers were making games for the MICROSOFT xbox360, what did they use?, a G5. Many people prefer OSX to Windows XP any day, due to it's ease of use and beauty. Macs also have a much greater lifespan. A PC will show its age way before a mac does.
you







me

I'm right...again.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

Mac guy, you can't still couldn't type correctly to save your life.

Jori, Macs have their place in the computer world. Graphic Designers, Programmers, Video Editors, and others often prefer macs due to stability. When developers were making games for the MICROSOFT xbox360, what did they use?, a G5. Many people prefer OSX to Windows XP any day, due to it's ease of use and beauty. Macs also have a much greater lifespan. A PC will show its age way before a mac does.
you







me

I'm right...again.


Err?? Yeah sure.. (not really).. Why does it have a better lifespan? Please ellaborate on your futile attempt..


----------



## dex100

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

Mac guy, you can't still couldn't type correctly to save your life.

Jori, Macs have their place in the computer world. Graphic Designers, Programmers, Video Editors, and others often prefer macs due to stability. When developers were making games for the MICROSOFT xbox360, what did they use?, a G5. Many people prefer OSX to Windows XP any day, due to it's ease of use and beauty. Macs also have a much greater lifespan. A PC will show its age way before a mac does.
you







me

I'm right...again.


but the reason for the xbox isn't because the mac is ore stable its because the processor architecture is similar to that of a g5


----------



## 9642

i think there should be a mac section ive never owned a mac but i would like to see how well they o/c


----------



## dex100

I don't think they do (sept the minis)


----------



## Jazino

Zenoen, thanks for cleaning up your grammar a bit, perfection is not necessary on an internet forum as much as some want to make it (typo police). the problem was that it was very hard to understand all of what you said. please contibute to the forum in other ways, this is an enthusiast and overclocking forum mainly, so if all you want to do is teach everyone about macs you are in the wrong place. i am calling you mac spam because you are just posting in this one thread and it isnt particularily helpful.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jazino*

Zenoen, thanks for cleaning up your grammar a bit, perfection is not necessary on an internet forum as much as some want to make it (typo police). the problem was that it was very hard to understand all of what you said. please contibute to the forum in other ways, this is an enthusiast and overclocking forum mainly, so if all you want to do is teach everyone about macs you are in the wrong place. i am calling you mac spam because you are just posting in this one thread and it isnt particularily helpful.


thanku and i would like to say that i will do better in the future.
as for the X-box that is a very accurat aussumption.

the mac g5 is a system that is built for power flexibility and software construction and testing it is as we put it.
here is a link to a disscussion on the matter at hand (XBox - macG5)

http://news.com.com/5208-1043-0.html...44763&start=-1

hope I was of help.


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *overclockeraus*

i think there should be a mac section ive never owned a mac but i would like to see how well they o/c


You have to do difficult hardware mods that aren't really worth it. WHOOHOO .2ghz on my 1.45ghz processor, now only if I had more than 256mb of ram, and something nicer than a 9250 radeon.

About the lifespan, here is my attempt... Because macs increase in performance less frequently and at a slower rate, their technology does not become so out-dated. This also leads to better support for older mac computers, a lot of people still use G3's and that toaster looking thing. I would take a 4 year old G4 over any 4 year old pc.

Personally I would not own a mac unless I was a professional something who would actually use it. They are too $$$ even though they look sexy. A powerbook or ibook would be the only ones I would own just because 1,500 dollars in that category gets you more with a mac than a power sucking P4 notebook.

Argh, I'm just rambling.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

You have to do difficult hardware mods that aren't really worth it. WHOOHOO .2ghz on my 1.45ghz processor, now only if I had more than 256mb of ram, and something nicer than a 9250 radeon.

About the lifespan, here is my attempt... Because macs increase in performance less frequently and at a slower rate, their technology does not become so out-dated. This also leads to better support for older mac computers, a lot of people still use G3's and that toaster looking thing. I would take a 4 year old G4 over any 4 year old pc.

Personally I would not own a mac unless I was a professional something who would actually use it. They are too $$$ even though they look sexy. A powerbook or ibook would be the only ones I would own just because 1,500 dollars in that category gets you more with a mac than a power sucking P4 notebook.

Argh, I'm just rambling.


Because Mac's arnt use for like.. Anything except photoshop practically.. So its in another class, now if you put it in the same class as pc's they would become dated just as soon.


----------



## redmonster13

even in photoshop macs dont really have an advantage. Photoshop is just very ram dependant so if you are running 2 gigs or more of ram a pc can be just as fast as a mac. I'm not ssaying macs dont have their place, I would love to have a g5 to play with but it still wouldnt take the place of my PC becuase I prefer a rig that is capable of being used for any application at any time. I have used macs and dont really like the os that much but I am sure that it is ok for people who do nothing but play with pictures on their system.

zenoen, before you have kittens and freak out, I understand that you love your mac but it isnt for me. If you really want to show me how great they are just log into bf2 or counter strike source and look for redmonster13.


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

even in photoshop macs dont really have an advantage. Photoshop is just very ram dependant so if you are running 2 gigs or more of ram a pc can be just as fast as a mac. I'm not ssaying macs dont have their place, I would love to have a g5 to play with but it still wouldnt take the place of my PC becuase I prefer a rig that is capable of being used for any application at any time. I have used macs and dont really like the os that much but I am sure that it is ok for people who do nothing but play with pictures on their system.

zenoen, before you have kittens and freak out, I understand that you love your mac but it isnt for me. If you really want to show me how great they are just log into bf2 or counter strike source and look for redmonster13.


I'm happy with my new ipod, the only other thing I would buy from apple would be one of those 30" lcd's if I had the money or a Powerbook.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

even in photoshop macs dont really have an advantage. Photoshop is just very ram dependant so if you are running 2 gigs or more of ram a pc can be just as fast as a mac. I'm not ssaying macs dont have their place, I would love to have a g5 to play with but it still wouldnt take the place of my PC becuase I prefer a rig that is capable of being used for any application at any time. I have used macs and dont really like the os that much but I am sure that it is ok for people who do nothing but play with pictures on their system.

zenoen, before you have kittens and freak out, I understand that you love your mac but it isnt for me. If you really want to show me how great they are just log into bf2 or counter strike source and look for redmonster13.


look im really tiered of explaining this it was even agreed upon in a prievious post. macs are better then a pc, like A Big screen TV compaired to a normal TV, now a lot of people ask me that if games are built on a mac then why arn't they sold for mac, why is it that there is so many games for windows but not many for mac.

look, when it comes down to it most people are bias and greedy, that means they don't come out for mac becouse it won't earn them much money. it cost's money to make games and if not enough people buy the
game then they lose money, doom 3 doesent support dule processing 
even though it was built with a combination of mac and pc tencology.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/02/doom3/index.php

they talk about it there but, it's a cycle that has been made and besides
that 3d games need good graphics & megaherts thats the main requirements now if you were playing a game like StarCraft (old game)
a 2D game you need good graphics & memory thats where macs
have always won.

becouse they use there card more efficently then a PC (hardware)
becouse it was built into the computer. The Driver has been optimized
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=optimize
and so has the processor, the sound card.
The whole computer has been built to be the best.
not to be hardware changable the new intell processor has been
optimized for mac to be complementary to eachother

the windows system is like a quilt built to be changed (hardware)
and still work even if not well linux is better but the same in this case
the mac system is in harmony with the hardware, a seamless intergration
of software and hardware. the windows is a pachwork that allows any
driver and piece of hardware but it has its cost. using the same equipment a mac system uses, it doesent even reach 60% of the power of a mac system has.

if i made any grammer or spelling mistakes I did try to keep them down to a min.


----------



## The Duke

Macs have there advantages... some people just like to raz em! 
Anyone intrested in a Apple II, has every thing including the printer and about 3 tons of softs?


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Duke*

Macs have there advantages... some people just like to raz em! 
Anyone intrested in a Apple II, has every thing including the printer and about 3 tons of softs?


When I think of mac users now, I think of berkenstock wearing, organic food eating, art or creative writing majors that have an antibush bumper sticker right next to their apple sticker on their Civic Hybrid.

I would much rather have an Alienware that runs off body fat from endangered animals.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

When I think of mac users now, I think of berkenstock wearing, organic food eating, art or creative writing majors that have an antibush bumper sticker right next to their apple sticker on their Civic Hybrid.

I would much rather have an Alienware that runs off body fat from endangered animals.


Exactly, im not saying macs are inferior.. Im saying a PC built for the price of a mac beats it... Now, drop your pitch fork zeneon and take it to http://www.mac-forums.com/forums or something..


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Exactly, im not saying macs are inferior.. Im saying a PC built for the price of a mac beats it... Now, drop your pitch fork zeneon and take it to http://www.mac-forums.com/forums or something..


I do agree with him about Apple hardware and software running much more smoothly due to the fact they made for one another.

I haven't read all of Zeneon's posts in this thread, but he is like a Flying Speghetti Monster in a Reborn Christian Mother's forum. Or the other way around?


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

I do agree with him about Apple hardware and software running much more smoothly due to the fact they made for one another.

I haven't read all of Zeneon's posts in this thread, but he is like a Flying Speghetti Monster in a Reborn Christian Mother's forum. Or the other way around?


Err.. More like a mac fanatic in a PC forum







.


----------



## zenoen

look all im saying is that im here to help people understand mac's.
what people fail to understand about the apple computers is that
there video cards and processors run them faster then they could run a
simple system. A apple computer is about harmony of componets
lets say i have a 3.2 ghz processor and a apple g5 processor why on
earth is the apple processor so much bigger then the 3.2 i mean the apple
g5 has A 2.7 Ghz processor why is it run a apple faster then a pc

optimization it is the answer ?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=optimize

does any person here know what firewire is ( why does it run so much faster then a usb port?) well to explaine it.
firewire is a open port to your hardware that bypases your CPU.
now why is it that mac is so fast?
It doesent use it's processor for everything.
it uses internal hardware that allows it to skip the cpu and communicate
directly with other hardware and the harddrive. now can u do that on a windows or a intell or maby even AMD.

you can't becouse it would have problems interpriting the data if it was a diffrent driver or video card but mac has hardcoded there main drivers so you can do that. now why would this affect the computers speed well to put
it bluntly, it means that coping data or finding data is a task that doesent even need to use the cpu same with downloading data or connecting to other networks (only for clustering computers though).

if a person wanted to truely make a game for A mac
then it would run extreemly well on a mac, but when ported to windows,
It will require top of the line epuipment and hardware to run.

macs are built to be a perfect match like husband and wife.
windows are patchwork they allow any driver any hardware.
Becouse of this it has to give up the ability to run extreamly well
for a certain set of hardware and you can't have intigrated hardware that
may not run for certian other cards.
It has to have simple connections and be changable. Becouse of this it also lose the ability to run, without help from the processor. (changing the data so it will work for the video cards)

It boils down to u can customize your hardware) or (You can have a better and faster system that people don't build games to work well on.


----------



## Gnarly

Ok fair enough. Now make me some toast!


----------



## Xaimus

This is possibly the most ridiculous thread I have looked through in a long time. I haven't read a platform "debate" with this amount of boorishness and misinformation since 1996.

Perhaps you should simply use whatever platform you're used to. I'll stick to FreeBSD/NetBSD on [insert architecture here], zenoen can have as much fun with OS X all by himself, and the unwashed masses can continue to live their lives and do productive work within the crufty ball of kludges that is Windows.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

look all im saying is that im here to help people understand mac's.
what people fail to understand about the apple computers is that
there video cards and processors run them faster then they could run a
simple system. A apple computer is about harmony of componets
lets say i have a 3.2 ghz processor and a apple g5 processor why on
earth is the apple processor so much bigger then the 3.2 i mean the apple
g5 has A 2.7 Ghz processor why is it run a apple faster then a pc

optimization it is the answer ?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=optimize

does any person here know what firewire is ( why does it run so much faster then a usb port?) well to explaine it.
firewire is a open port to your hardware that bypases your CPU.
now why is it that mac is so fast?
It doesent use it's processor for everything.
it uses internal hardware that allows it to skip the cpu and communicate
directly with other hardware and the harddrive. now can u do that on a windows or a intell or maby even AMD.

you can't becouse it would have problems interpriting the data if it was a diffrent driver or video card but mac has hardcoded there main drivers so you can do that. now why would this affect the computers speed well to put
it bluntly, it means that coping data or finding data is a task that doesent even need to use the cpu same with downloading data or connecting to other networks (only for clustering computers though).

if a person wanted to truely make a game for A mac
then it would run extreemly well on a mac, but when ported to windows,
It will require top of the line epuipment and hardware to run.

macs are built to be a perfect match like husband and wife.
windows are patchwork they allow any driver any hardware.
Becouse of this it has to give up the ability to run extreamly well
for a certain set of hardware and you can't have intigrated hardware that
may not run for certian other cards.
It has to have simple connections and be changable. Becouse of this it also lose the ability to run, without help from the processor. (changing the data so it will work for the video cards)

It boils down to u can customize your hardware) or (You can have a better and faster system that people don't build games to work well on.


Then... Why the heck was my schools oh so great mini's so much slower than my PC if they are so great?

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...49,pg,8,00.asp
http://www.barefeats.com/g5op.html
http://www.barefeats.com/g5c.html

^ Yeah whatever... I keep seeing "Oh well the G5 is blah blah blah times faster than blah blah.. Now, thats just bs..


----------



## HrnyGoat

Man what is it with you guys bashing Macs? I use them and love them. If more PC games were Mac, Id be using one for sure.


----------



## J3r3my

My dads had his G4 laptop for like 3 years and weve never had to reformat it and it still runs just as fast.


----------



## redmonster13

yo, I think there is something new for the deciples!!!


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Then... Why the heck was my schools oh so great mini's so much slower than my PC if they are so great?

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...49,pg,8,00.asp
http://www.barefeats.com/g5op.html
http://www.barefeats.com/g5c.html

^ Yeah whatever... I keep seeing "Oh well the G5 is blah blah blah times faster than blah blah.. Now, thats just bs..


this took me awhile, I thanku for showing me these links.
let' s explaine some of the problems here. 
the first test they did, not only were they using software not mastered to run on a mac they used the software that was good wrong, seriously! They compaired the conversion rates of photos. Well thats all good an all, but it is a CPU test only and it doesent rely on any thing else and as we all know 3.4 cycles is faster then 2.0 cycles and supriseingly enough, It did better then expected on cpu tasks only

also compairing Q3 fps was a mistake, when they fixed it for mac they did the best they could but they still didnt take care of the major issue in speed (the dule core proessing) they fixed it for the velocity engine not DCP.
it did well for a 2.0 compaired aginst a 3.2

The next page went into more detail and was much more accurate but it also had some problems and i guess I will have to explaine them first off
even he said and I quote
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4009

Quote:



Originally Posted by *man*

As a side note, if you care, an Apple developer's guide for the G5s says that they support 2GB DIMMs, so the high end G5 can really use 16GB of physical RAM, if you have the money. As a further side note, Motorola's documentation for its recent G4 processors suggest that they can support 64GB of physical RAM, so Apple did not technologically have to wait until IBM's release of the PowerPC 970s to support more than 2 or 4GB of RAM in PowerMacs and XServes. It's not clear that Apple will support any of the 64-bit defining features of the PowerPC 970/G5, unless you are a cryptographer who cares about integer arithmetic with larger numbers.


now in prievious statments he also said
The other part of van der Linden's post says that the kernel can support more than 2^32 bytes=4GB of physical memory. So, yes, the 8GB of memory that Apple claims the high end G5 model supports will indeed work. It is just that, from what I gather, no one application can grab all of it at once. Instead, each application can use only 4GB (the virtual address space limit which has not changed under Panther).

and this

Quote:



Originally Posted by *man*

hat does this mean? First, an individual application (or process) on current (10.2.x) and future (10.2.7 and 10.3 Panther) versions of Mac OS X can only address 4GB (2^32 bytes) of memory. So Panther does not change the status quo. As someone who writes Fortran programs that use lots of memory (but is not a computer scientist), MY personal definition of a 64-bit OS is one in which an individual application can use up to 2^64 bytes (17 billion GB) of virtual memory. OSes such as Solaris and 64-bit versions of Linux and Windows meet my test. Mac OS X, in what van der Linden calls the "medium term" (at least the next major release cycle, Panther), does not meet my test.

The other part of van der Linden's post says that the kernel can support more than 2^32 bytes=4GB of physical memory. So, yes, the 8GB of memory that Apple claims the high end G5 model supports will indeed work. It is just that, from what I gather, no one application can grab all of it at once. Instead, each application can use only 4GB (the virtual address space limit which has not changed under Panther).


Now he is right and wrong let me explaine.
He forgot the most importiant factor that only certian apps will need the whole processor. You do that from the terminal eith SUDO and it will work from there u can not do it on the basic system os10.3, 10.5 will be to fix that
and several other issues but the main factor is that Scientist can use it as of right now through terminal but games can't

Now there is a reason it was split like that. It can run games and applications that are 32.bit now and even 64.bit can be run but it
is a multitasking system and most games are 32.bit only as of right now
if they made games in 64.bit code:
code http://developer.apple.com/documenta...uid/TP40001064
:then the games would only run on mac and the new system longhorn.
but there waiting till it (longhorn)is finnished.

as for the next issue 64 bit itself mac said that it can acces 8 gigs witch is more then others as of this moment (there are some exceptions)
here are some of the threads i was looking up
http://www.apple.com/g5processor/
http://www.macopinion.com/columns/in...ence/01/04/09/

and people can make 64.bit and do make 64.bit
http://developer.apple.com/documenta...uid/TP40001064

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xaimus*

This is possibly the most ridiculous thread I have looked through in a long time. I haven't read a platform "debate" with this amount of boorishness and misinformation since 1996.

Perhaps you should simply use whatever platform you're used to. I'll stick to FreeBSD/NetBSD on [insert architecture here], zenoen can have as much fun with OS X all by himself, and the unwashed masses can continue to live their lives and do productive work within the crufty ball of kludges that is Windows.


hmm thats not what they say
http://haxor.dk/articles/abettercomputer.html
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/
http://lowendmac.com/lab/index.shtml
http://www.user-groups.net/articles/mac_vs_pc.html

here is a example user for instince i will protect his name.
I've been on Apple since May&#8230; And I'm fine ;-) It's fast, never crashed (my Dell didn't, too), I do not know how I could work all the time without Expóse. Open 50+ Pictures in Photoshop? Cruel on Windows - nice on a Mac. My Mac returns from hibernate in 3 seconds. It's easy - if you didn't want to care - or powerfull (as a Unix geek).
I didn't sell my Dell, but hardly use it anymore.
My grandparents (80+) where on a Windows machine 6 long years - this was a rough time for my nerves. Now I bought them a Mac mini and they use the Computer everyday, chat with iChat, use Safari and Mail. It just works&#8230;

oh and is it interisting that when a compairson test like this is done and 
mac loses (by the way this is a accurate test based on benchmarks not converting files witch it would win in anyway)

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2...acvspciii2.htm

Now I will explaine why this test proved mac was not able to compete.
When compairing the Pent 4 2.53Ghz to the G4 (thats right i did say G4)
mac lost. why? well even with all the power it had it still could not beet 
the new computer. (g4 1.25 to a Pentium 4 2.53GHz) It wasent enough but it almost did, also it did well compaired to that.

but lets say u want to pay less money for good hardware
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4895
http://www.systemshootouts.org/
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/22738.html
then check out a actual price comparison, if you didnot know what comparison actualy means check it out.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compairson
but it was fun to talk to you guies. (lol)

and the last link u menchend like the first was bull, compairing the systems. without reparing the permissions, was a mistake. Oh well at least they
they were nicer about it.

oh and i rember one user saying he told the computer to do some task and he had to wait a long time well it was proably in energy conserve mode
and mini is for the experience not speed thats why its slow it doesent have all the omtimazation a desktop has becouse it was made so small


----------



## Gnarly

Holy crap, no one is going to read all of that. You are wasting your time.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

Holy crap, no one is going to read all of that. You are wasting your time.


well he brought it up and if you want accurate examples its there but i was
replying to his post and it (hold on the mail application is jumping up and down in the dock)there took care of it hmm its the equivlent of (u got mail)
but it is silent


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

well he brought it up and if you want accurate examples its there but i was
replying to his post and it (hold on the mail application is jumping up and down in the dock)there took care of it hmm its the equivlent of (u got mail)
but it is silent


Umm... I think the point he's trying to make is that this is a forum, not a gigantic linkpool. People discuss things in person on forums, and links are used to back up claims. Instead of deluging us with links and repetitive text, try using short, concise language and limiting your posts to half a page.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

Umm... I think the point he's trying to make is that this is a forum, not a gigantic linkpool. People discuss things in person on forums, and links are used to back up claims. Instead of deluging us with links and repetitive text, try using short, concise language and limiting your posts to half a page.










ok!


----------



## ju52

Well, I really like the mac OS myself, it's rock solid. It's just the hardware that sucks arse. It just bugs me that you can't upgrade to a new motherboard 1 year down the road. Look at windows vista, microsoft is trying to move onto a look just like mac os x.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ju52*

Well, I really like the mac OS myself, it's rock solid. It's just the hardware that sucks arse. It just bugs me that you can't upgrade to a new motherboard 1 year down the road. Look at windows vista, microsoft is trying to move onto a look just like mac os x.


they have always been trying to copy mac but there just not
ever going to get there and for video cards macs are better 
look back a page and find the section on graphics cards


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

they have always been trying to copy mac but there just not
ever going to get there and for video cards macs are better 
look back a page and find the section on graphics cards



Are you on drugs, there is no way in hell that any mac video card is even close to the performance of a 7800gtx or x1800 . You really need to look into the validity of your statements before you make them. Everyone agrees that a macs os is better and they utilize their hardware/software interface better but they suck at games.This quit being a debate long ago and has evolved into seeing how long a few of us can keep you posting obscure links to mac sites.

http://www.darryl.com/apple.html

http://lancemccord.com/archives/why_apple_sucks.php

http://www.starpoint.net/~schaef/mac_suck.htm

see I can do it to. Pointless links to random crap that can skew some peoples point of view if they arent capable of thinking for themselves.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=179001

http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/archives/000161.html

just some more random stuff to fill up a post that has no point and wont acomplish anything. I think if I just keep typing and dont quit I can possibly annoy a couple of people. So at this point I am not really doing anything but I sure am having fun.

http://www.endofworld.net/

http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/consent

http://www.greentowel.com/images/qt/...l_yourmama.mov

http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/fight3.php

Do you see how that works? I just put whatever I want up there after the first few becuase I know no one is going to look at all that crap anyway. They should look at the last few though becuase they are funny as hell and I looked long and hard to find them, wait no I didnt I just google'ed random things and posted links for the hell of it.

You are using biased sources for your information and anyone can do that.


----------



## Xaimus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

also compairing Q3 fps was a mistake, when they fixed it for mac they did the best they could but they still didnt take care of the major issue in speed (the dule core proessing) they fixed it for the velocity engine not DCP.
it did well for a 2.0 compaired aginst a 3.2


Quake isn't "optimized" for SMP on Windows or UNIX by default, either.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

hmm thats not what they say
http://haxor.dk/articles/abettercomputer.html
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/
http://lowendmac.com/lab/index.shtml
http://www.user-groups.net/articles/mac_vs_pc.html

here is a example user for instince i will protect his name.
I've been on Apple since May&#8230; And I'm fine ;-) It's fast, never crashed (my Dell didn't, too), I do not know how I could work all the time without ExpÃ³se. Open 50+ Pictures in Photoshop? Cruel on Windows - nice on a Mac. My Mac returns from hibernate in 3 seconds. It's easy - if you didn't want to care - or powerfull (as a Unix geek).
I didn't sell my Dell, but hardly use it anymore.
My grandparents (80+) where on a Windows machine 6 long years - this was a rough time for my nerves. Now I bought them a Mac mini and they use the Computer everyday, chat with iChat, use Safari and Mail. It just works&#8230;


Please explain to me the point of posting anecdotal evidence to support your claims. I could easily post several "success stories" about various people using UNIX or Windows, but it wouldn't mean a damn thing. The newspaper staff at my old high school used iMacs. Every single staff member complained about how terrible those computers were.
I'm of the opinion that OS X is a terrible and slow working environment. Each time I've used OS X, I found myself running X11 with KDE. I think I may be better off just installing NetBSD or Linux on those machines. My opinion, however, doesn't automatically mean that KDE/X11/BSD is automatically superior to all other work environments.

Quote:



oh and is it interisting that when a compairson test like this is done and 
mac loses (by the way this is a accurate test based on benchmarks not converting files witch it would win in anyway)

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2...acvspciii2.htm

Now I will explaine why this test proved mac was not able to compete.
When compairing the Pent 4 2.53Ghz to the G4 (thats right i did say G4)
mac lost. why? well even with all the power it had it still could not beet 
the new computer. (g4 1.25 to a Pentium 4 2.53GHz) It wasent enough but it almost did, also it did well compaired to that.


That test is from *2002*.

Quote:



but lets say u want to pay less money for good hardware
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4895
http://www.systemshootouts.org/
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/22738.html
then check out a actual price comparison, if you didnot know what comparison actualy means check it out.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compairson
but it was fun to talk to you guies. (lol)


All you've posted so far are horribly misspelled and poorly constructed assertions regarding Apple's supposed superiority over all other competitors. Honestly, this thread really is like a trip back to 1996, when "anti-PC"/"anti-Mac" sites containing half-baked arguments were fashionable. TCO reports are questionable at best--I've read far too many different reports about TCO that contradict each other. One report claims that Windows Server is cheapest, while another praises Linux, while yet another rambles on and on about OS X.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xaimus*

Quake isn't "optimized" for SMP on Windows or UNIX by default, either.

Please explain to me the point of posting anecdotal evidence to support your claims. I could easily post several "success stories" about various people using UNIX or Windows, but it wouldn't mean a damn thing. The newspaper staff at my old high school used iMacs.

first off i don't think you are aware of what every staff member thought and as you said MAC MINI - is to help you get used to the system it is not faster then A g4 platform hec a g4 at the speed of 900 Mgh beets the MINI
but the envirment is worth it i was just pointing out that not everyperson
in the world could or even would use windows as we all know .

Every single staff member complained about how terrible those computers were. I'm of the opinion that OS X is a terrible and slow working environment. Each time I've used OS X, I found myself running X11 with KDE. I think I may be better off just installing NetBSD or Linux on those machines. My opinion, however, doesn't automatically mean that KDE/X11/BSD is automatically superior to all other work environments.


im not saying its a better work enviorment (actually i am). It is 
a strong foundation with a strong castle. windows is not.
KDE/X11/BSD are much better then windows by all mens use those
but the hardware on a mac (I.E video card) are more powerfull then the same PC brand the reason for this is what mac does to it , it uses it much better then windows & even some lunix kernals. So if you want proof? Check out the links I posted, there all data links to the subject at hand.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xaimus*

That test is from *2002*.


does that mean it shouldent count just becouse it is compairing history
of computing speeds

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xaimus*

All you've posted so far are horribly misspelled and poorly constructed assertions regarding Apple's supposed superiority over all other competitors. Honestly, this thread really is like a trip back to 1996, when "anti-PC"/"anti-Mac" sites containing half-baked arguments were fashionable. TCO reports are questionable at best--I've read far too many different reports about TCO that contradict each other. One report claims that Windows Server is cheapest, while another praises Linux, while yet another rambles on and on about OS X.


As for this, I have made a atempt to fix my grammer and spelling.
and I have been trying to show some neet things to you.


----------



## chechenepiphany

If you have some time on your hands, this is some good reading material. Kind of old, but very interesting.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/


----------



## Gnarly

As for this, I have made an attempt to fix my grammar and spelling.
and I have been trying to show some neat things to you.

Bada-boom.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

Bada-boom.


You forgot "*grammer*".


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

If you have some time on your hands, this is some good reading material. Kind of old, but very interesting.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/



I just read that entire article and it is very interesting. It says for those who dont want to read it, apple is full of it. The G5 is not and has never been the fastest pc in the world, then goes on to back it up. Thanks for the information and reps for you.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

If you have some time on your hands, this is some good reading material. Kind of old, but very interesting.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/


yes it made very intresting reading meterial.
and he was correct about the speed ratio of a g5.
but thats not what i was refering to.

The graphics cards are
supported by mac are used beyond what a windows will do. 
I have seen proof (stright compairson of g5 1400mhz - pent 1800mhz
and the g5 had much smother and better graphics.
The pc was a friend's who decided to chalenge me, We tested it between the two (we both fixed up the computers befor the showdown)

we went and ran the demo and the g5 did much better with a a ATI 9200
he had ATI 9800 XT i have found macs ro be better visualy
and they have more MOTOPS and that says it all

hay give me a break i got C+ - D in spelling &grammer

(game)(Elete Force)


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

I just read that entire article and it is very interesting. It says for those who dont want to read it, apple is full of it. The G5 is not and has never been the fastest pc in the world, then goes on to back it up. Thanks for the information and reps for you.


Thanks, I got it from a friend and went nuts. It's amazing how much crap they packed into those ads and what they did to the benchies. No HT, no SSE2, no special compression library, no relaxed mathematics, and the G5 comes out on top. I wonder why? It's disgusting.


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

yes it made very intresting reading meterial.
and he was correct about the speed ratio of a g5.
but thats not what i was refering to the graphics cards are
supported by mac are used beyond what a windows will do. 
I have seen proof (stright compairson of g5 1400mhz - pent 1800mhz
and the g4 had much smother and better graphics.
The pc was a friend's who decided to chalenge me, We tested it between the two (we both fixed up the computers befor the showdown)

we went and ran the demo and the g5 did much better with a a ATI 9200
he had ATI 9800 XT i have found macs ro be better visualy
and they have more MOTOPS and that says it all


Yeah a 1400mhz amd will do better than an 1800mhz pentium


----------



## redmonster13

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

Yeah a 1400mhz amd will do better than an 1800mhz pentium



and a top of the line windows based machine (that is the debate we have going here) which in my opinion would be a AMD x2 4800+ will outrun top of the line G5 all day long.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

and a top of the line windows based machine (that is the debate we have going here) which in my opinion would be a AMD x2 4800+ will outrun top of the line *[single cpu]*G5 all day long.


If you went dual cpu on the g5, you'd have to compare it to a dual core, dual opteron, since the G5's are now dual core.


----------



## zenoen

But have any of you looked at the MOTOPS of a apple and a AMD or INTELL
I took a look at all of them and mac topped even AMD

They measure SUPERCOMPUTERS by MOTOPS
THAT is why mac G5 is faster

But he was right it was a bad test. 
They should of had a showdown somewhere.

P.S For apple it was there fastest and first 64.bit computer
As even he said it puts Apple on par with the other computer.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

But have any of you looked at the MOTOPS of a apple and a AMD or INTELL
I took a look at all of them and mac topped even AMD

They measure SUPERCOMPUTERS by MOTOPS
THAT is why mac G5 is faster

But he was right it was a bad test. 
They should of had a showdown somewhere.

P.S For apple it was there fastest and first 64.bit computer
As even he said it puts Apple on par with the other computer.


Too bad Apple cant take credit for the G5... We'll see how well Intel pulls their deal with mac off.


----------



## redmonster13

http://www.cray.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4386404.stm

http://www.research.ibm.com/bluegene/

ok, so on these reputable sites relating to "supercomputers" I find absolutly no refrence to MOTOPS. They do seem to be using terraflops as a mesurement though. I think your infomation was skewed by apple to say what they wanted it to say and you didnt bother to investigate the validity of it before accepting it as fact.


----------



## 6600Gt1047

I Agree make a mac section.

Some people here have MACS and Windows


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

http://www.cray.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4386404.stm

http://www.research.ibm.com/bluegene/

ok, so on these reputable sites relating to "supercomputers" I find absolutly no refrence to MOTOPS. They do seem to be using terraflops as a mesurement though. I think your infomation was skewed by apple to say what they wanted it to say and you didnt bother to investigate the validity of it before accepting it as fact.


The g5 was created by IBM, but it was the joint effort of Apple and IBM, not just IBM,

Here is the data you reauested from there own sites.
so unless you can offer me proof that intell's QUAD even hits 50 witch they say it doesent,or even AMD, i will have to bieleve mac is faster :<)
becouse they determine by mtops what computers are supercomputer. 
INfact the G5 forced people to raize the bar from 50 to 100 thats how fast the G5 is

ill give you the links
http://www.apple.com/support/export/
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...E72730,00.html

Oh and its mtops i wrote it wrong.
So sorry for the mixup.


----------



## redmonster13

so if the g5 is so fast then why does this http://www.cray.com/products/xt3/index.html not use a power pc processor?


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *redmonster13*

so if the g5 is so fast then why does this http://www.cray.com/products/xt3/index.html not use a power pc processor?


Because Cray didn't stand for that kind of Sh|t, and neither will his company. A cray would nail a G5 to the wall in the time it took to boot.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

The g5 was created by IBM, but it was the joint effort of Apple and IBM, not just IBM,

Here is the data you reauested from there own sites.
so unless you can offer me proof that intell's QUAD even hits 50 witch they say it doesent,or even AMD, i will have to bieleve mac is faster :<)
becouse they determine by mtops what computers are supercomputer. 
INfact the G5 forced people to raize the bar from 50 to 100 thats how fast the G5 is

ill give you the links
http://www.apple.com/support/export/
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...E72730,00.html

Oh and its mtops i wrote it wrong.
So sorry for the mixup.










And who cares? Mac's dont have the potential of being a supercomputer that Intels and AMD's have. You cant buy the processors as a single, you just buy one overpriced system.. The G5 can win all they want, but I very much so doubt they will beat Intel's new 65 nm processors coming out, they are just far superior. And also, I doubt it will beat the up in coming AMD processors. And besides, I really dont trust Mac sites that much, they like to bs.. (Like its 75X faster than a PC.. Ive seen that before on a site)


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

And who cares? Mac's dont have the potential of being a supercomputer that Intels and AMD's have. You cant buy the processors as a single, you just buy one overpriced system.. The G5 can win all they want, but I very much so doubt they will beat Intel's new 65 nm processors coming out, they are just far superior. And also, I doubt it will beat the up in coming AMD processors. And besides, I really dont trust Mac sites that much, they like to bs.. (Like its 75X faster than a PC.. Ive seen that before on a site)










first off the ratings were done not by mac it was done by the goverment when they were transfering it to europe so these stistics are true.
< http://www.cray.com/ > whats the first word CRAY, the site was built for the CRAY supercomputer not for the g5 or IBM.

these are the top supercomputers of today

System---------------Nr of procs--R_max--R_peak
Earth Simulator-----------5120----35860---40960- 350million
ASCI Q AlphaServer------8160----13880----20480- 215million
Apple G5 dual-------------2200----10280----17600- 5.2million
HP RX2600 Itanium 2-----1936-----8633----11616- couldent find price
ASCI Q AlphaServer------4096----7727----10240- 24.5million just for processors
here are three sources to this data
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112083/G5cluster.html
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/11/17.1.shtml
http://www.top500.org/lists/2003/11/top5.php

It less expensive to buy a g5 cluster then a CRAY.

But if you want to buy a computer at least look at this site befor choosing
http://www.systemshootouts.org/


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

It less expensive to buy a g5 cluster then a CRAY.

But if you want to buy a computer at least look at this site befor choosing
http://www.systemshootouts.org/


Yes, but you cant exactly stick a bunch of G5's in a pile, loop themn all together with cat 5, and expect it to do anything. You are acting like you could do such a thing and just add up the mtops of each machine. Just like you wouldn't call a nice server a "super computer". Sure it benches nice, but you don't see many G5 clusters, do you? Think there's a reason? I do.


----------



## Gnarly

This is off topic, but why do you not believe in evolution? And have you ever had a bad experience when owning/using a pc?


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

Yes, but you cant exactly stick a bunch of G5's in a pile, loop themn all together with cat 5, and expect it to do anything. You are acting like you could do such a thing and just add up the mtops of each machine. Just like you wouldn't call a nice server a "super computer". Sure it benches nice, but you don't see many G5 clusters, do you? Think there's a reason? I do.


that is sorta what virgina tech did.
they pluged in the 1000x cords to the ethernet port.
and linked them to Xservers, then they linked the Xservers together.
you can get some doc's here
http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/vatech/
and here
http://www.tcf.vt.edu/systemX.html#hardware









oh as for the reason there isn't many clusters 
there actually is a lot of them but they uasly consist of G5's & G4's even G3's
I could mention some if you want (all you have to do is ask)


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnarly*

This is off topic, but why do you not believe in evolution? And have you ever had a bad experience when owning/using a pc?


Thats like saying all the parts of a computer came together, by falling from the sky, they had the right decoders and code writers, and all of them were in the same computer language, linked properly togeher for maxum efficiency.

nope don't bieleve it (someone had to make the G5)
(someone had to wright the software)

I have had a lot of problems with windows (drivers failed)(disk corrupted)(computer slowing down)(system crashes)(blue screen of death)(networks not working)(hate wizzards) linux , unix , BDS , ect. all of those are better then windows () they last just like mac () but arn't as user frendly


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Thats like saying all the parts of a computer came togeher falling from the sky and had the right decoders and code writers all in the same computer language.

nope don't bieleve it (someone had to make the G5)
(someone had to wright the software)


Computers started off using glass vacumes instead of transistors. Eventually silicon was created and microprocessors. The G5 resulted from that.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

that is sorta what virgina tech did. they pluged in the 1000x cords to the ethernet port.
and linked them to Xservers then linked them together.


In other words, they linked the macs together in a very different way from what I said. You'll note that using servers like that is very different from directlinking solutions, and that this method tends to introduce latency issues.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

In other words, they linked the macs together in a very different way from what I said. You'll note that using servers like that is very different from directlinking solutions, and that this method tends to introduce latency issues.


T1000x lines actually don't really have much latency.
They tend to have very good Bandwith.
you can get DOC's about them on 
http://www.google.com/search?q=T1000...fari&rls=en-us

Also there third place in super computers so if they did fix it that way then it would be even faster


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Thats like saying all the parts of a computer came together, by falling from the sky, they had the right decoders and code writers, and all of them were in the same computer language, linked properly togeher for maxum efficiency.

nope don't bieleve it (someone had to make the G5)
(someone had to wright the software)

I have had a lot of problems with windows (drivers failed)(disk corrupted)(computer slowing down)(system crashes)(blue screen of death)(networks not working)(hate wizzards) linux , unix , BDS , ect. all of those are better then windows () they last just like mac () but arn't as user frendly


1. Who cares about supercomputers, I dont, I want something that is fast in games and everyday activities that I do.
2. Anyone who has problems with Windows.. Its your own fault, mine works flawlessly
3. Windows is more "user friendly" then macs IMO..
4. About that system shootout.. Wheres the good pc's? For $5300 You could get a X2 4800 and dual 7800GTX's/X1800XT's and phase change, thus totally annihilating the Mac system.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

1. Who cares about supercomputers, I dont, I want something that is fast in games and everyday activities that I do.
2. Anyone who has problems with Windows.. Its your own fault, mine works flawlessly
3. Windows is more "user friendly" then macs IMO..
4. About that system shootout.. Wheres the good pc's? For $5300 You could get a X2 4800 and dual 7800GTX's/X1800XT's and phase change, thus totally annihilating the Mac system.


we have already went over the point mac is more user frendly, but if you want satistics about how people who use macs are more productive I can get them just ask,

As for problems you think it works flawlessly when it fails on you
you will be surprized and astonished (but would you really mention the problems you have had in the first place(no))

There you go again stating higher prices leads to better computers guess what for that price i could have 16 Gbites of ram on my mac g5 ,a quad G5 processor that takes me up to, heck take a yourself, JORI you got it backwards http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...22_dt5300.html
Doesent matter I guess, heck with a quad my GHz rating is higher

About games if there good they come out for both Systems 
if it's one of the few that doesent then 
OH well i guess you can run that game and I cant


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

we have already went over the point mac is more user frendly, but if you want satistics about how people who use macs are more productive I can get them just ask,

*As for problems you think it works flawlessly when it fails on you
you will be surprized and astonished (but would you really mention the problems you have had in the first place(no))*

There you go again stating higher prices leads to better computers guess what for that price i could have 16 Gbites of ram on my mac g5 ,a quad G5 processor that takes me up to, heck take a yourself, JORI you got it backwards http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...22_dt5300.html
Doesent matter I guess, heck with a quad my GHz rating is higher


You could not have 16 gbs of RAM for that price, and as for the bolded part, are you illiterate? I have had NO PROBLEMS with my windows XP install, works flawlessly. And also, i have it backwards though? I think of myself as a far more reliable source for PC hardware than you; most mac users I know are oblivious... And did you fail math or something? I mean.. that 16 gbs just confuses me.. I went to apples site and chose their cheapest Powermac with 16 gbs of ram it was over $13,000. And I have used Mac and Windows, I can access alot more things, faster and easier with Windows.


----------



## BFRD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

we have already went over the point mac is more user frendly, but if you want satistics about how people who use macs are more productive I can get them just ask,

As for problems you think it works flawlessly when it fails on you
you will be surprized and astonished (but would you really mention the problems you have had in the first place(no))

There you go again stating higher prices leads to better computers guess what for that price i could have 16 Gbites of ram on my mac g5 ,a quad G5 processor that takes me up to, heck take a yourself, JORI you got it backwards http://www.systemshootouts.org/shoot...22_dt5300.html
Doesent matter I guess, heck with a quad my GHz rating is higher

About games if there good they come out for both Systems 
if it's one of the few that doesent then 
OH well i guess you can run that game and I cant


I have actually followed this thread for a while. I would like to make a few comments.

If your idea was to raise awareness of the Mac community, you have done so. If your idea was to make everybody here drop our current machines and convert, it just won't happen. Much of the literature is so far biased in Apple's favor that it looses its effect. The x86 platform (whether it be Intel or AMD) has many many advantages over Apple. Apple in turn has many advantages over x86. Anybody who has been in the industry knows that no one platform is perfect. Trying to convince anyone differently will never succeed. What you are succeeding in is screaming so loudly that no one will listen.

Even in your most recent post (above) you miss-represent your own facts. You said that for $5300 you could have 16GB of Ram, your link says that 16GB is the MAX amount.

However this particular forum is not here to berate Apple or their users, please do not try to do the opposite. There are many things that you could learn about non-Apple computing here. We pride ourselves on being an open and friendly environment why don't you join us. I implore you to at least explore the different areas of the site. I noted that this thread is just about the only place you seem to visit. You mentioned earlier that you had many problems with Windows. I assure that when setup properly those problems don't exist. In my opinion one of the biggest advantages of the Apple platform is its ease of use. Very little computer knowledge is required because the hardware and driver requirements are closely regulated. Personally, I don't like being limited by software or hardware constraints so this is a negative _for me_. If you feel that this is not a problem for you, than I am happy for _you_.

I just find it discouraging that every other post in this thread is argumentative and that isn't what I think this forum is about. As to the root point of the thread, a Mac section is probably a good idea. To that end we need members that are knowledgeable in that area. However, I feel that it is counter-productive to insinuate that anyone who doesn't use a Mac isn't intelligent. I realize those words were not spelled out, but the meaning seems quite clear.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BFRD*

I have actually followed this thread for a while. I would like to make a few comments.

If your idea was to raise awareness of the Mac community, you have done so. If your idea was to make everybody here drop our current machines and convert, it just won't happen. Much of the literature is so far biased in Apple's favor that it looses its effect. The x86 platform (whether it be Intel or AMD) has many many advantages over Apple. Apple in turn has many advantages over x86. Anybody who has been in the industry knows that no one platform is perfect. Trying to convince anyone differently will never succeed. What you are succeeding in is screaming so loudly that no one will listen.

Even in your most recent post (above) you miss-represent your own facts. You said that for $5300 you could have 16GB of Ram, your link says that 16GB is the MAX amount.

However this particular forum is not here to berate Apple or their users, please do not try to do the opposite. There are many things that you could learn about non-Apple computing here. We pride ourselves on being an open and friendly environment why don't you join us. I implore you to at least explore the different areas of the site. I noted that this thread is just about the only place you seem to visit. You mentioned earlier that you had many problems with Windows. I assure that when setup properly those problems don't exist. In my opinion one of the biggest advantages of the Apple platform is its ease of use. Very little computer knowledge is required because the hardware and driver requirements are closely regulated. Personally, I don't like being limited by software or hardware constraints so this is a negative _for me_. If you feel that this is not a problem for you, than I am happy for _you_.

(_(i have been checking out the other fourms on the site i just haven posted yet and i assure i will post somewhere else soon()as for problems those came up well they were taken care of they were just to answer his question but that is not why I am a mac user, i used mac befor that)_)

I just find it discouraging that every other post in this thread is argumentative and that isn't what I think this forum is about. As to the root point of the thread, a Mac section is probably a good idea. To that end we need members that are knowledgeable in that area. However, I feel that it is counter-productive to insinuate that anyone who doesn't use a Mac isn't intelligent. I realize those words were not spelled out, but the meaning seems quite clear.


not all of them are argumentative

but i dont think people who use windows are stupid 
my grandfather uses windows - im just pointing out that macs 
in a direct compairson can cost less come with built in support
and have a easier UI (user interface) compaired to windows.
even though it mostly depends on the user (I guess).

Some of the simpler things. Is that macs care for the cunsumers
and that they have better software in most cases (I-life)

(linux,unix,BSD, ect...) Are good and safe operating sysems like mac

As for gaiming, use a pc running windows that has never been connected to the internet. 
(so you can run thoes few games that don't run on mac or lunix)
Mac's are cost efficent and give you more for your buck.

P.S I herd a funny thing people did with there windows, they rewrote the error messages , 
() we try to hold the world in our hands but can't
. . . . . . . . . . . . . out of memory

As for the RAM I can have that much but it comes with the 5200$
mac set and that is what I was refering to in the post
(the quadG5 as it were?)


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

not all of them are argumentative

but i dont think people who use windows are stupid 
my grandfather uses windows - im just pointing out that macs 
in a direct compairson can cost less come with built in support
and have a easier UI (user interface) compaired to windows.
even though it mostly depends on the user (I guess).

Some of the simpler things. Is that macs care for the cunsumers
and that they have better software in most cases (I-life)

(linux,unix,BSD, ect...) Are good and safe operating sysems like mac

As for gaiming, use a pc running windows that has never been connected to the internet. 
(so you can run thoes few games that don't run on mac or lunix)
Mac's are cost efficent and give you more for your buck.

P.S I herd a funny thing people did with there windows, they rewrote the error messages , 
() we try to hold the world in our hands but can't
. . . . . . . . . . . . . out of memory

As for the RAM I can have that much but it comes with the 5200$
mac set and that is what I was refering to in the post
(the quadG5 as it were?)


Cost effective? I have my slipstreamed Windows disc right here if anything goes crazy... which I have not had any problems. And really, who cares about that much RAM.. I care about practical and cost effective things, and mac's, dont work for me.. At all. Nor will they ever.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Cost effective? I have my slipstreamed Windows disc right here if anything goes crazy... which I have not had any problems. And really, who cares about that much RAM.. I care about practical and cost effective things, and mac's, dont work for me.. At all. Nor will they ever.


well im sorry you feal that way.

You know whats funny when getting a computer they look for the loest price but when getting a car they look for the most effective avrige costing
model. just a thought

and in the end mac does cost less but if you have a CD that takes care of most of the problems then your set.







oh and have a good problem free day (no scarcasm)


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

T1000x lines actually don't really have much latency.
They tend to have very good Bandwith.
you can get DOC's about them on 
http://www.google.com/search?q=T1000...fari&rls=en-us

Also there third place in super computers so if they did fix it that way then it would be even faster










I understand that ethernet is fast, but when you have to relay things between computers via ethernet, you get latencies. The cord itself is not a problem as much as the fact that you have to send things from the cpu to the ethernet card and then through another hundred machines. That introduces the latencies. And it should be noted that this is from 2003. Thats almost 3 years ago now.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

I understand that ethernet is fast, but when you have to relay things between computers via ethernet, you get latencies. The cord itself is not a problem as much as the fact that you have to send things from the cpu to the ethernet card and then through another hundred machines. That introduces the latencies. And it should be noted that this is from 2003. Thats almost 3 years ago now.


Please just look up 1000x lines 
There is a card installed for direct interface between the CPU and the lines.
P.S ,you are thinking of 100x lines

Using this method they reched 3 place in cps so it can only get better not worse.

I found a interisting site about the interface of windows, and there history of Interfaces
http://www.osdata.com/kind/windows.htm makes intresting reading meterial


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

well im sorry you feal that way.

You know whats funny when getting a computer they look for the loest price but when getting a car they look for the most effective avrige costing
model. just a thought

and in the end mac does cost less but if you have a CD that takes care of most of the problems then your set.







oh and have a good problem free day (no scarcasm)


And I will, I simply took that 20 minutes to get the right stuff to keep this computer clean and secure..


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Please just look up 1000x lines 
There is a card installed for direct interface between the CPU and the lines.
P.S ,you are thinking of 100x lines

Using this method they reched 3 place in cps so it can only get better not worse.

I found a interisting site about the interface of windows, and there history of Interfaces
http://www.osdata.com/kind/windows.htm makes intresting reading meterial


Stop beating a dead horse. 
That is Zeneon in the pic, and the horse represents "macs are better" logic. And the standing horse is me, wanting to move on through the trail of dreams.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Please just look up 1000x lines 
There is a card installed for direct interface between the CPU and the lines.
P.S ,you are thinking of 100x lines

Using this method they reched 3 place in cps so it can only get better not worse.

I found a interisting site about the interface of windows, and there history of Interfaces
http://www.osdata.com/kind/windows.htm makes intresting reading meterial


I know what a 1000x line is, and I comprehend the extremity of its bandwidth. That does not change the fact that there is a pci card involved and a few hundred machines to travel through. And this achieved third place in *2003*.

P.S. I am not thinking of 100x lines


----------



## Xaimus

here's a helpful hint to those who want to see this discussion end:
stop replying


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

I know what a 1000x line is, and I comprehend the extremity of its bandwidth. That does not change the fact that there is a pci card involved and a few hundred machines to travel through. And this achieved third place in *2003*.

P.S. I am not thinking of 100x lines


Oh my mistake!

It's just that so many people don't know the diffrence between the two.
I had a friend in Sacrmento (I don't think that is spelled right hold on)
it's sacramento any way he didn't even know there was x1000 lines.

Any way)> yes, there is a card involved. 
It still has 3rd place :up: unless thats changed, has it?


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Any way)> yes, there is a card involved. 
It still has 3rd place :up: unless thats changed, has it?


Thanks for being polite about it and improving the readability in your posts. Yes, it has changed. Virginia tech now has a similar cluster with even faster cpu's, but its 14th.

http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?Y=2005&M=06


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

Thanks for being polite about it and improving the readability in your posts. Yes, it has changed. Virginia tech now has a similar cluster with even faster cpu's, but its 14th.

http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?Y=2005&M=06


14Virginia Tech
United States/2004System X
1100 Dual 2.3 GHz Apple XServe/Mellanox Infiniband 4X/Cisco GigE / 2200
Self-made

If they had the new g5 2.7 then they would probaly be in the first 5 again.
oh well did everybody have a good halloween I did


----------



## systemshock869

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

ok! ok! ok!
im going to unleash some anger here so back away

0.first off mac is virus free as of this moment 
1.speed is very simple. (look below)
a. quad processor(AMDOpteronModel850) 32000 MTOPS
b. intell. 3.20 GHz = 9067 MOTOPS
c. mac. 2.7 GHz G5 dual processor 60,750 MOTOPS

MOTOPS is Millions Of Theretical Operations Per Second

why people may ask why does it's speed differ if using windows
well just to help all the clueless in the world i will explaine
windows will slow down the computer as it runs unless u never connect it
to the internet (ever) but even if u dont it will still have to be defragged 
about 2 a year (more if connected to the internet) (unlike the mac withc indexs it self and defrags it self on the fly with out taking more then 200mghz to do so (also ure computer is runinng other programs at the same time)

nortian is a virus () vitural pc is a virus () windows midiea player is a virus() internet explorer is a virus () microsoft is a virus to a mac.

now why u may ask well let me explane it the simple minded who think 
its not

when installing any programs from microsoft the do scatter installs
they install all types of worthless jubk on a computer then install the program O and uninstall doesent get rid of it all it leaves trace files to slow youre computer down (even on windows)

i have found and removed these files from my computer using a spific program to know what files are changed during a installation and it still runs fine but now my computer is not occupid usine worthles programs 
(like who needs a program that creates 5 lines of random letters per sec
it is a time waister so i removed all of them

but to keep on topic . . .
i took these speed test from there own sites and the speed of a super computer is messured by montops so lets see what youre fallowing companies say
http://www.apple.com/support/export/

Mac mini
@1.42 GHz
20,349
Power Mac G5 
(Dual Processor)
@ 2.7 GHz
60,750
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm

Quad processor configurations:
• AMD Opteron Model 840 ** 18667 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 842 ** 21333 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 844 ** 24000 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 846 ** 26667 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 848 ** 29333 MTOPS
• AMD Opteron Model 850 ** 32000 MTOPS
http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-017346.htm

Speed CTP in MTOPs IntelÂ® PentiumÂ® 4 Processor
3.20 GHz 9067 
3.06 GHz 8160
2.80 GHz 7467
2.66 GHz 7093
2.60 GHz 6933
2.53 GHz 6746
2.50 GHz 6666
2.40 GHz 6400
a quote from a friend about the speed problem in basic thoughts
?)#"DÂ®Æ'??ÃŸ??Æ'Â®D"#(?

Donâ€™t be fooled by the â€œspeedâ€ (i.e. MHz) numbers posted by Intel and the PC assemblers! Many tests show that Macs have superior performance to Pentiums with three times the MHz rating.

Why might this be? Consider this example:
two cars are traveling from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
Car A will average 65 MPH, while car B will average 50 MPH.
Assume they start together and neither car makes any stops.
Which one will get there first?

If you subscribe to the misconception that speed is the most important specification, then youâ€™d pick car A â€" and you would be wrong. The variable we did not discuss is the route each car would take. In our example, Car B is going the most direct route, while car A is going through San Diego (i.e. quite indirect).

I know, you ASSUMED that both cars would take the most straightforward route. Many people have undoubtedly assumed the same thing when comparing Pentiums/Athlons to PowerPC microprocessors â€" and that assumption would be incorrect. The fact is that for several reasons (e.g. that they were designed from day one to operate a Graphical User Interface) that PowerPC microprocessors are more efficiently designed.

In 2001 MacCentral published a VERY detailed write-up about the Megahertz Myth that is still well worth reading. (Make sure to go back to the Part I and Part II links.) Here are some additional articles (from other sources) on the same subject: Washington Post (9/02): Processor Speeds Almost Passe, and TechNews: Does MHz Really Matter Anymore?, and iGeek: MHz and GHz, and MHz and GHZ Have Lost Some Meaning, and Mr. Software Fights the MHz Myth.

Another person wrote â€œRPM is a better automotive analogy for MHz: a Viper at 2000 RPM smokes a Neon at 5000 RPMâ€... Apple also has posted an eight minute QuickTime movie demonstrating how a 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 is considerably slower than several lower MHz G4 versions. Check it out!

Still another writer proposed: â€œIf Intel wants to be the de-facto standard then let them. Weâ€™ll call that standard â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. On each new box leaving Apple, there will be a sticker next to the standard MHz telling the consumer that this 1000 MHz Mac is equal to a 3000 MHz Pentium or 3.0 â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. In every advertisement and promotional material Apple produces it will be there, plain as day, itâ€™s chips equal to â€˜IntelHertzâ€™. This new standard will bring us on par with Intel and show the world how the Mac is more than equal to the PC offerings.â€

This article explains AMDâ€™s new plan in its battle against the PC megahertz myth. (AMD makes the Athlon microprocessor chips that are the prime PC competitors to Intelâ€™s Pentium microprocessors.) It seems that the new AMD Athlons will be specified by model rather than by GHz.

Model A1600, for instance, is a 1.4GHz Athlon, which AMD views as equivalent in performance to an Intel P4 1.6GHz. AMD now demands that no motherboard/BIOS maker ever reveal the actual clockspeed of the chip, and even goes as far as to forbid the printing of the CPUâ€™s clockspeed in the motherboardâ€™s reference manual.

Hmmm. Seems like some PC people are now also catching on to the Megahertz myth...
dont be dumb chech your facts out
and apple is faster them a pc as i have shown if u READ READ READ REALLY READ THIS ARTICAL THEN YOU KNOW THAT I AM TALKING ABOUT SPEED NOT GHz LEARN WHAT SPEED IS

REALLY
COME ON


if mac is god and intel is a POS, then why is mac switching all of their processors over to intel between 2006 and 2007?


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *systemshock869*

if mac is god and intel is a POS, then why is mac switching all of their processors over to intel between 2006 and 2007?


becouse the processer is not the determining factor of a mac
the software and hardware is optmized to worktogeher.
The processor change will boost its data transactions speed. 
The overall preformance will be incressed becouse of these 
several factors. and the windows os will be slower for every 
update as it requires ram to keep the system running at all times
and when it runs out of ram it writes over the current ram thus

when you quit a application and try to load the system it may freeze
or corrupt other data in your system why trying to load data
As you know if you add more ram your system lasts longer
and runs better but the mac system carries tons of importiant data
like drivers in rom chips as to speed up the process

P.S I have to get off so i am going to correct the grammer when I get
back in 2-3 hours maby 16
also the windows os holds your private data and sends it to a section of
micrsoft that catlogs it for later use (p.s he can crash your system remotly)


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

becouse the processer is not the determining factor of a mac
the software and hardware is optmized to worktogeher.
The processor change will boost its data transactions speed. 
The overall preformance will be incressed becouse of these 
several factors. and the windows os will be slower for every 
update as it requires ram to keep the system running at all times
and when it runs out of ram it writes over the current ram thus

when you quit a application and try to load the system it may freeze
or corrupt other data in your system why trying to load data
As you know if you add more ram your system lasts longer
and runs better but the mac system carries tons of importiant data
like drivers in rom chips as to speed up the process

P.S I have to get off so i am going to correct the grammer when I get
back in 2-3 hours maby 16
also the windows os holds your private data and sends it to a section of
micrsoft that catlogs it for later use (p.s he can crash your system remotly)


Hey look at that, bs. I never have had my system run out of RAM... And wahts this about last longer and crashing? ***.. Nice pulling bs out of nowhere.. I definatly would take anything you say seriously about Windows, considering I use it and have never had any of the problems you say exist..


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Hey look at that, bs. I never have had my system run out of RAM... And wahts this about last longer and crashing? ***.. Nice pulling bs out of nowhere.. I definatly would take anything you say seriously about Windows, considering I use it and have never had any of the problems you say exist..










Hay let me explaine the system and data (in game data includes the textures and phisics) Now it grabs that data from the C: drive and puts it in ram now let say you quit the game the data stays in ram till it is overwritten it is the same with system data. When you (end TASK)
it switches directly with out even varifying that you still have the data there.

The L2 catch is the central unit in gaming (P.S mac doesent use L2 they have L1) it holds the data that you are using at the current moment the data from ram will be transmitted to the L2 and data on the L2 will be transmitted back to ram for later use

When your ram is fully loaded sometimes it can't write to the ram becouse it is in transit to the L2 and then your Program Freezes. The mac system has a lot of rom carring data that is always in the ram of windows
so when this happends it can freeze a OS, but becouse of true multiprocessing. The mac only has 1 process freez why the windows has to be rebooted

lunix is better off!


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Hay let me explaine the system and data (in game data includes the textures and phisics) Now it grabs that data from the C: drive and puts it in ram now let say you quit the game the data stays in ram till it is overwritten it is the same with system data. When you (end TASK)
it switches directly with out even varifying that you still have the data there.

The L2 catch is the central unit in gaming (P.S mac doesent use L2 they have L1) it holds the data that you are using at the current moment the data from ram will be transmitted to the L2 and data on the L2 will be transmitted back to ram for later use

When your ram is fully loaded sometimes it can't write to the ram becouse it is in transit to the L2 and then your Program Freezes. The mac system has a lot of rom carring data that is always in the ram of windows
so when this happends it can freeze a OS, but becouse of true multiprocessing. The mac only has 1 process freez why the windows has to be rebooted

lunix is better off!


Umm. No. L1 cache is found in every cpu, as well as L2 and L3. What you have suggested is nonsense and does not happen.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

Umm. No. L1 cache is found in every cpu, as well as L2 and L3. What you have suggested is nonsense and does not happen.


L catch is a data holding chip
but it does, I have a whole book on this stuff published by PC computing
and that does happen some times the data can get around this and
it doesent happen offen but when it does it will freeze windows
and slow down any true Multiprocessing system. 
becouse the ram chip falls in a loop it trys to move data from ram to L cach
but the L catch Does the oppsite and it loops. I have had it happen, I know it does









P.S when it does happen You may not know it and just have dissmised it but it just a point to rember to have a good amount of ram on your computer


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

L catch is a data holding chip
but it does I have a whole book on this stuff published by PC computing
and that does happen some times the data can get around this and
it doesent happen offen but when it does it will freeze windows
and slow down any true Multiprocessing system 
becouse the ram chip falls in a loop it trys to move data from ram to L cach
but the L catch Does the oppsite and it loops I have had it happen, I know it does









P.S when it does happen You may not know it and just have dissmised it but it just a point to rember to have a good amount of ram on your computer


L1 cache is the first level of memory found in any cpu. It is no different in a powerpc core. L1, L2, L3. It is inside the cpu, not an extenal chip. It has nothing to do with windows.


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

L1 cache is the first level of memory found in any cpu. It is no different in a powerpc core. L1, L2, L3. It is inside the cpu, not an extenal chip. It has nothing to do with windows.


im stating that the L catch transfers data to ram
ram transfers data to L catch

1 = 2
2 = 1
state 1

get it

12121212121212121212121212121221212121212


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

im stating that the L catch transfers data to ram
ram transfers data to L catch

1 = 2
2 = 1
state 1

get it

12121212121212121212121212121221212121212


And how is this pertinent to your arguement?


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

And how is this pertinent to your arguement?


Yeah... Oh and, I dont beleive L catches work that way, I think its more like..

Data requested>CPU Checks L1>CPU Checks L2>CPU Checks L3 (If L3 is present)>CPU Checks RAM> CPU Checks HD...


----------



## chechenepiphany

AFAIK L1, L2, ans L3 are just on die memory. Like RAM, only much faster because its _in_ the cpu.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

AFAIK L1, L2, ans L3 are just on die memory. Like RAM, only much faster because its _in_ the cpu.


Exactly, more like.. Much much much much faster, and it would be pointless to write it to the RAM, that would just make more work for slower data transfer..


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Exactly, more like.. Much much much much faster, and it would be pointless to write it to the RAM, that would just make more work for slower data transfer..










Data is brought to the L catch from the RAM - ROM - HD
Data that is not in direct use in the L Catch is sent to the RAM

(In case it is required later for use in the current program where as it goes faster getting that data less latency if it is in RAM (but DoN't ask me why they would do that) maby it is becouse the program has a lot of sounds, sprits, and graphics to load)

Data in the RAM that is bieng used is sent to the Lcatch(unless the Lcatch is full.
if the L catch is full of data in use then the DATA stays in the ram its slower but
still pritty fast (VM is DATA bieng wrote on your DISK)

Now when a constiant cycle is made it continues till stopped by outside forces
(FI if you use task manager to end the task) but becouse of this Cycle it freezes your program and you must end it remotly, it is called a program loop

If i said #1=2, #2=1, #print 1, it would create a program cycle instead of printing a letter, This cycle would continue unless I ended it remotly

Now becouse windows doesent seperate the processers memory allocations
for processes (IE the program chooses how much memory to use) you can end up with a cycle like this and it (CAN) freeze windows (doesent uasly freeze systems but it can, (IE you uasly can end programs that are not responding)
when this happens you open "Task manager" VIA control+alt+DEL.

thats why there is a (CONTROL + ALT + DEL) command


----------



## Gnarly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

...
thats why there is a (CONTROL + ALT + DEL) command


----------



## chechenepiphany

So, macs allocate a set amount of memory to a program at startup, potentially crippling it or taking too much memory for other apps to run, in order to prevent an infinite memory acess loop which would require the user to restart the app?


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chechenepiphany*

So, macs allocate a set amount of memory to a program at startup, potentially crippling it or taking too much memory for other apps to run, in order to prevent an infinite memory acess loop which would require the user to restart the app?


Never had that problem, and the CPU, L cache, RAM, and HD thing im pretty sure works the way I said it..


----------



## zenoen

you can change the amount in information if you want to allocate more or less (os 9)

(OS X) you have to open up task manager in system X and chang the amount

But it will not cripple it, in fact it prevents the whole system from locking up when a application freezes (up). It is set for applications by the programers and can be changed by the users

chechenepiphany" (if you had 10GB of L catch maby it would be done diffrently)
P.S I have a book on this process right next to me. Got it from my grampa when he was explaining the "interworkings" (not shure if thats a word or not) of a CPU)
Besides why would we even have Random Access Memory if a computer didnt need it
here ill get the def from the web
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...ccess%20memory
but the comp. goes to (Lcatch or ROM) - RAM - VM in that order


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

you can change the amount in information if you want to allocate more or less (os 9)

(OS X) you have to open up task manager in system X and chang the amount

But it will not cripple it, in fact it prevents the whole system from locking up when a application freezes (up). It is set for applications by the programers and can be changed by the users

chechenepiphany" (if you had 10GB of L catch maby it would be done diffrently)
P.S I have a book on this process right next to me. Got it from my grampa when he was explaining the "interworkings" (not shure if thats a word or not) of a CPU)
Besides why would we even have Random Access Memory if a computer didnt need it
here ill get the def from the web
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...ccess%20memory
but the comp. goes to (Lcatch or ROM) - RAM - VM in that order


what im saying is, its like layers.. L1 > L2 > L3 > RAM > HD.. It looks for information requested in that order..


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

what im saying is, its like layers.. L1 > L2 > L3 > RAM > HD.. It looks for information requested in that order..


Ya pritty much!
Sorry we were arguing about apples and oranges
But in can get into a loop "(data loop) "becouse, 
ah heck I explained this already so it is like 
layers with certin falts depending on your OS.










































neet smiles
Linux actually is the best when it comes to these falts.


----------



## SpookedJunglist

Hello could you guys start spelling Cache correctly? It is giving me a headache.

Lots of good debating but I do believe that Zenoen is in over his heads. It seems as if you are trying to convert the forum. This will not happen. Also you are trying to prove that Mac is better than PC. Well it is, but it is not better at everything. As you have pointed out Mac uses almost 90% proprietary hardware. This means that 90% of the hardware is Mac specific. Well PCs is a somwhat open format. When someone buys a PC they get parts from several manufacturers and put it together and then start the instalation process of installing drivers and whatnots. This is PCs biggest issue and greatest advantage balled up into one thing. Having large amounts of manufacturers brings down prices. It also creates competition amongst companies creating better/faster products. On the other hand it also creates more stress on the operating system because it has to make sense of what hardware it is using. It sometimes can cause problems with system stability, but for the most part I would attribute system stability more to buying cheaper products.

EX. Someone who buys a off brand motherboard will have more problems than someone who buys a name brand motherboard. I have owned both and have seen the difference. My current setup has not crashed. I atribute this to having a Supreme USER controlling it and taking care of it.

Did you say something about no viruses? There have been several have you heard of Opener? Look it up. Also I dont know if you were around back in the eightys, but back then there were more problems with viruses on Mac than on PC. But as the world started to use more PCs over MAC Hackers started to lean more towards PCs. It is just way the things are. If you are looking to commit fraud via programming you will go with what there is more of [ PCs ]. Maybe in the future there will be more Mac viruses. Maybe MAC will end up being owned by Microsoft. They already own more than 150million dollars worth of Apples stock so who knows.

I have used both on countless occasions and I love both for certain things. I actually do Audio visual for Californias rading first initiative and for alot of the teachers who don't know how to use a computer it is better that they use macs. But they do have glitches. I have had several macs and PCs lock up on me durring their trainings. I actually saw more Macs freeze than PCs though. I had more issues with the PCs though. The macintoshes would sync with the LCD projectors with out asking it too. The PCs had to be told to sync to the projectors. This is a software issue not a hardware issue. When the Macs crashed I had to remove the batterys to get them to restart. I could just hold the button down on the PCs that crashed. Though I dont think any actually did on my last trip. This is a biased oppinion because the PCs were less than 10% of the computers used for the institutes. I would rather them all be Macs because it is less trouble for me to deal with in the morning. I get tired of hitting function F8 all day long







I do notice that MACs take longer to boot than my PC Laptop.

Well I am going to leave my comments at this Zenoer quit trying to prove that mac is superior there is not much difference in performance. What i will say is that due to Apples unwilingness to allow aftermarket to produce their product has hurt there marketshare of the computer market. In doing so they have limeted the amount of software programmers that will create software for their opperating system. That in turn hurts them even more. 
I need to get back to work so I will stop here.

Your pal
Spooky


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SpookedJunglist*

Hello could you guys start spelling Cache correctly? It is giving me a headache.

Lots of good debating but I do believe that Zenoen is in over his heads. It seems as if you are trying to convert the forum. This will not happen. Also you are trying to prove that Mac is better than PC. Well it is, but it is not better at everything. As you have pointed out Mac uses almost 90% proprietary hardware. This means that 90% of the hardware is Mac specific. Well PCs is a somwhat open format. When someone buys a PC they get parts from several manufacturers and put it together and then start the instalation process of installing drivers and whatnots. This is PCs biggest issue and greatest advantage balled up into one thing. Having large amounts of manufacturers brings down prices. It also creates competition amongst companies creating better/faster products. On the other hand it also creates more stress on the operating system because it has to make sense of what hardware it is using. It sometimes can cause problems with system stability, but for the most part I would attribute system stability more to buying cheaper products.

EX. Someone who buys a off brand motherboard will have more problems than someone who buys a name brand motherboard. I have owned both and have seen the difference. My current setup has not crashed. I atribute this to having a Supreme USER controlling it and taking care of it.

Did you say something about no viruses? There have been several have you heard of Opener? Look it up. Also I dont know if you were around back in the eightys, but back then there were more problems with viruses on Mac than on PC. But as the world started to use more PCs over MAC Hackers started to lean more towards PCs. It is just way the things are. If you are looking to commit fraud via programming you will go with what there is more of [ PCs ]. Maybe in the future there will be more Mac viruses. Maybe MAC will end up being owned by Microsoft. They already own more than 150million dollars worth of Apples stock so who knows.

I have used both on countless occasions and I love both for certain things. I actually do Audio visual for Californias rading first initiative and for alot of the teachers who don't know how to use a computer it is better that they use macs. But they do have glitches. I have had several macs and PCs lock up on me durring their trainings. I actually saw more Macs freeze than PCs though. I had more issues with the PCs though. The macintoshes would sync with the LCD projectors with out asking it too. The PCs had to be told to sync to the projectors. This is a software issue not a hardware issue. When the Macs crashed I had to remove the batterys to get them to restart. I could just hold the button down on the PCs that crashed. Though I dont think any actually did on my last trip. This is a biased oppinion because the PCs were less than 10% of the computers used for the institutes. I would rather them all be Macs because it is less trouble for me to deal with in the morning. I get tired of hitting function F8 all day long







I do notice that MACs take longer to boot than my PC Laptop.

Well I am going to leave my comments at this Zenoer quit trying to prove that mac is superior there is not much difference in performance. What i will say is that due to Apples unwilingness to allow aftermarket to produce their product has hurt there marketshare of the computer market. In doing so they have limeted the amount of software programmers that will create software for their opperating system. That in turn hurts them even more. 
I need to get back to work so I will stop here.

Your pal
Spooky


http://cse.stanford.edu/class/sophom...risc/risccisc/


----------



## tylerand

I dont like mac and i dont hate mac. But i do wish you could mix mac stuff with the other stuff i dont say pc because a mac is a personal computer also. If they could mix and match id want a new (not out yet i know dont attack me) 7800gtx 512mb with a really good NOT MAC motherboard with a mac g5 dual or somting and well alot of other good things. What i mean if mac and the other stuff came together they could probably make the worlds gratest home pc's.


----------



## HrnyGoat

Both horses have been beaten to death. PCs and Macs each have their advantages. I have used both and like them both. I do think a Mac section would be nice, after all, this is a computer forum. But that is up to admin and the mods to decide.


----------



## dex100

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HrnyGoat*









Both horses have been beaten to death. PCs and Macs each have their advantages. I have used both and like them both. I do think a Mac section would be nice, after all, this is a computer forum. But that is up to admin and the mods to decide.


lol, no its an overclocking forum and Macs don't, so they don't really have a spot here (then again you can't overclock an xbox so why does it have a section lol)


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dex100*

lol, no its an overclocking forum and Macs don't, so they don't really have a spot here (then again you can't overclock an xbox so why does it have a section lol)


Zeneon claims they overclock..


----------



## POGE

They can overclock.







The mini's can atleast.


----------



## dex100

well the mini's but how many people have mini's and the overclock like 100mhz...


----------



## POGE

I did it to my cousins...


----------



## HrnyGoat

You can software OC a Mac.


----------



## POGE

What kinds?


----------



## HrnyGoat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dex100*

lol, no its an overclocking forum and Macs don't, so they don't really have a spot here (then again you can't overclock an xbox so why does it have a section lol)


I would say this is more than just an overclocking forum.


----------



## 6600Gt1047

mac is the better os by far.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *6600Gt1047*

mac is the better os by far.


Where are any of your claims supported? Oh wait.. Its only opinion. Im sorry, if you hate windows then you obviously dont know how to make it "safe".


----------



## J3r3my

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Where are any of your claims supported? Oh wait.. Its only opinion. Im sorry, if you hate windows then you obviously dont know how to make it "safe".


Why go through a bunch of crap just to make your OS stable? OSX is already like that. Stable out of the box. I wish I could say the same for Windows on my comp. When a game crashes on OSX you can force quit it but if a game crashes on Windows it usually takes everything with it and you have to reboot (at least in my case). Id rather not have to install virus protection, firewalls and anti spyware that hog your memory and CPU.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *J3r3my*

Why go through a bunch of crap just to make your OS stable? OSX is already like that. Stable out of the box. I wish I could say the same for Windows on my comp. When a game crashes on OSX you can force quit it but if a game crashes on Windows it usually takes everything with it and you have to reboot (at least in my case). Id rather not have to install virus protection, firewalls and anti spyware that hog your memory and CPU.


Well i just have a slip streamed copy, oh and I just downloaded a virus and ad aware.. hasnt given me any troubles at all. And the ONLY reason Mac's are more secure is becasue like I said, nobody cares about them enough to make virus's for the 2% of the population that avidly uses Mac OSX and Linux...


----------



## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Well i just have a slip streamed copy, oh and I just downloaded a virus and ad aware.. hasnt given me any troubles at all. And the ONLY reason Mac's are more secure is becasue like I said, nobody cares about them enough to make virus's for the 2% of the population that avidly uses Mac OSX and Linux...


WOW! a lot has gone on in 24 h.
Sorry about the spelling (I am a bad speller help me cheange).

Point 2>
You can OC most mac's there are a few you can't like the 2Ci , Apple IIGS. 
They are old though, All the recent mac's you can OC. In fact look at the info on mine @ the bottom of page. (mine is OC)

point 3>

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tylerand*

I dont like mac and I dont hate mac. But I do wish you could mix mac stuff with the other stuff i dont say pc because a mac is a personal computer also. If they could mix and match id want a new (not out yet I know dont attack me) 7800gtx 512mb with a really good NOT MAC motherboard with a mac g5 dual or somting and well alot of other good things. What I mean if mac and the other stuff came together they could probably make the worlds gratest home pc's..


Well there in lies the diffrence.

//The thing that seperates mac and windows
Mac is made to be a per-fact OS ) A brige between HW&SW(
to have the best output between the two the optmization behind
it is amazing.

If you switch the cards, Then it will loose all it's optmization 
and you will be worse off then when you started. Windows allows
complete HW customization, but if your not carful, It may not even be compatable.

Mac has a 10 WAT bulb 
Windows has a 15 WAT bulb
Mac has a lense +60% more light

Point 4>

Thank you Jori
http://cse.stanford.edu/class/sophom...risc/risccisc/
Its been very insightfull it explained some things that my book
didn't cover (risc)
you have been most helpfull.

Point 5>

even I could make a virus for a mac but it would require that
the user run it (when we say its viruses less (X not 9)that means that no hacker can just install it on your drive and let it kill you) most real v's require the admin password and i am not going to give it.
You forgot to mention that the viruses for mac were transmited by floppy not by INTERNET, also half of them were mirosoft . . . viruses.

unlike windows where I can delete other users data and can crash the system from outside.

Hoped I helped contribute somthing.


----------



## chechenepiphany

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

Point 5>

even I could make a virus for a mac but it would require that
the user run it (when we say its viruses less (X not 9)that means that no hacker can just install it on your drive and let it kill you) most real v's require the admin password and i am not going to give it.
You forgot to mention that the viruses for mac were transmited by floppy not by INTERNET, also half of them were mirosoft . . . viruses.


I'm pretty sure that you could write a virus for the macintosh if you really wanted. But there isn't much point. Malware for the macintosh serves no purpose, since the target audience is very small. If more people used them, there would be a financial incentive to generate adware, spyware, and viruses. And believe me, people would create successful malware. But as long as the percent of users stays as low as it is now, nobody cares. So stop acting like macs are invulnerable.


----------



## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zenoen*

WOW! a lot has gone on in 24 h.
Sorry about the spelling (I am a bad speller help me cheange).

Point 2>
You can OC most mac's there are a few you can't like the 2Ci , Apple IIGS. 
They are old though, All the recent mac's you can OC. In fact look at the info on mine @ the bottom of page. (mine is OC)

point 3>

Well there in lies the diffrence.

//The thing that seperates mac and windows
Mac is made to be a per-fact OS ) A brige between HW&SW(
to have the best output between the two the optmization behind
it is amazing.

If you switch the cards, Then it will loose all it's optmization 
and you will be worse off then when you started. Windows allows
complete HW customization, but if your not carful, It may not even be compatable.

Mac has a 10 WAT bulb 
Windows has a 15 WAT bulb
Mac has a lense +60% more light

Point 4>

Thank you Jori
http://cse.stanford.edu/class/sophom...risc/risccisc/
Its been very insightfull it explained some things that my book
didn't cover (risc)
you have been most helpfull.

Point 5>

even I could make a virus for a mac but it would require that
the user run it (when we say its viruses less (X not 9)that means that no hacker can just install it on your drive and let it kill you) most real v's require the admin password and i am not going to give it.
You forgot to mention that the viruses for mac were transmited by floppy not by INTERNET, also half of them were mirosoft . . . viruses.

unlike windows where I can delete other users data and can crash the system from outside.

Hoped I helped contribute somthing.
























I say the only reason that Mac and Linux is held as "so secure" is because nobody targets that 2% of the population that uses it.. If everybody moved to macs or linux, then there would be a fair share of virus's out for those then that got past all the "security features"..


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## HrnyGoat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

I say the only reason that Mac and Linux is held as "so secure" is because nobody targets that 2% of the population that uses it.. If everybody moved to macs or linux, then there would be a fair share of virus's out for those then that got past all the "security features"..


They have had a number of attempts and even competions involving a cash prize to create a virus for Mac. So far, all attempts at making a true virus have failed. The only successes have been viruses that exploit other programs (like IE) but cannot attack the main operating system. Same applies to hacking. They offered a $15,000 cash prize to anyone who could hack into a Mac server and no one ever succeeded.


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## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HrnyGoat*

They have had a number of attempts and even competions involving a cash prize to create a virus for Mac. So far, all attempts at making a true virus have failed. The only successes have been viruses that exploit other programs (like IE) but cannot attack the main operating system. Same applies to hacking. They offered a $15,000 cash prize to anyone who could hack into a Mac server and no one ever succeeded.


Err.. Doubt it? Theres so many hackers that you dont know about that could probably crack it.. So I dont go by those competitions unless every hacker in the entire world tried it


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## HrnyGoat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jori*

Err.. Doubt it? Theres so many hackers that you dont know about that could probably crack it.. So I dont go by those competitions unless every hacker in the entire world tried it










Point is that OSX and Linux are far more secure than Windows. You can deny it all you want, but it is a fact. Windows is still full of security holes, after who knows how many patches.


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## Jori

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HrnyGoat*

Point is that OSX and Linux are far more secure than Windows. You can deny it all you want, but it is a fact. Windows is still full of security holes, after who knows how many patches.


Because people actually exploit them, theres loopholes in everything.. You just have to go through different steps for mac and linux, which I doubt either will "catch" on enough for people to start to care about trying to hack a linux or mac box..


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## zenoen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HrnyGoat*

They have had a number of attempts and even competions involving a cash prize to create a virus for Mac. So far, all attempts at making a true virus have failed. The only successes have been viruses that exploit other programs (like IE) but cannot attack the main operating system. Same applies to hacking. They offered a $15,000 cash prize to anyone who could hack into a Mac server and no one ever succeeded.


As I was saying he is right
heck ive seen the reports
Mac is safe, becouse no User can destroy the
system files it requires the Admin password
You have to give the password to do anything to the 
system the only way around it is to attack the user 
but even then it is practically impossible to kill the user

even A admin user can't touch others stuff unless he has the
Master pas.

there has been several prizes

excert from 
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....80fe09794d6331
history!
There are less macs, though there are huge cash prizes for cracking 
into a MacOS based WebStar server (typically over $10,000 US). Less macs 
means less hacker interest, but there are MILLIONS of macs sold, and 
some of the most skilled programmers are well versed in systems level 
mac engineering and know of the cash prizes, so its a moot point, but 
perhaps macs are never kracked because there appear to be less of them. 
(many macs pretend they are unix and give false headers to requests to 
keep up the illusion, ftp http, finger, etc). But some huge high 
performance sites use load-balancing webstar. Regardless, no mac has 
ever been rooted in history of the internet, except with a strange 3rd 
party tool in 1995.

any way so long and good luck


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