# Weird PC lag after 1-2 days



## sonixmon

This is not related to my gaming rig or really an OC question but I have a weird issue with what I call my laptop replacement PC. I purchased a used Dell Optiplex 990 ($99) a few years ago and swapped out the HD for a SSD. It ran very well but would run out of ram. Later I upgraded to 16GB and around the same time replaced the i5 with an i7-2600S (max it will support).

I started to get random lag issues at some point a few months ago (I thought it maybe related to a Windows update). The solution was always to reboot and at first I just thought it was Chrome (I tend to keep a lot of tabs open on forums etc.).

I did all kinds of troubleshooting and could not isolate to a driver program or service. I followed some YouTube antilag setting recommendations but nothing seems to prevent it from cropping back up.

Recently I discovered (on a fluke) that I do not even have to restart the OS, I can simply hibernate and resume within a few seconds and the lag will be gone again for several days. I have done this 2x this week and each time it resolved the lag. This kind of makes me think it is hardware related but not sure. I runs perfectly fine between reboots/hybernation.

I have checked temps etc. and nothing that reports in the system is out of spec or even over 45 idle 80 full load.

PC is only used for email, printing, scanning and forums etc. I thought about putting old i5 back in to see if it is either cpu or power issue (maybe this MB isnt really rated for it?).

Any thoughts?

TIA


----------



## kiriakos

sonixmon said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> TIA


Such thoughts they are very expensive.
Operating system management this starts from a *PRO version* of an operating system. (Retail box this is even better).

antilag setting recommendations ? There is no such a thing.
YouTube this is 100% full of garbage.


----------



## sonixmon

kiriakos said:


> Such thoughts they are very expensive.
> Operating system management this starts from a *PRO version* of an operating system. (Retail box this is even better).
> 
> antilag setting recommendations ? There is no such a thing.
> YouTube this is 100% full of garbage.


My point was I do not believe it is related to any settings etc. I may do a full reinstall but not sure it is really worth it at this point since could be hardware and I do plan an upgrade soon. I have gotten a lot of mileage out of this $99 PC (which included W7/10 and Office 2013) with a few additional upgrades I still have under $200 in it and it has been running 24/7 since 2017.

Device name OptiPlex-990
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600S CPU @ 2.80GHz 2.80 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor


----------



## PWn3R

Check your task manager after enabling handle count column under details. I’ve seen handle leaks from programs that leave open handles often millions, after a few days that cause this exact problem.


----------



## sonixmon

PWn3R said:


> Check your task manager after enabling handle count column under details. I’ve seen handle leaks from programs that leave open handles often millions, after a few days that cause this exact problem.


Thanks, I enabled this field and will check it the next time the issue shows up! Funny thing is it sometimes it starts with missed keys when typing. Once it gets bad it is real noticeable in mouse movement, missed keys, audio hiccup's etc.


----------



## aDyerSituation

I had issues like this on my last system that were resolved with a fresh windows install. I would start there before spending too much time on it


----------



## HeLeX63

More ram and faster CPU, you are increasing the heat output. Is it thermal throttling in any way ? Plug the fan back in ?


----------



## looniam

sonixmon said:


> This is not related to my gaming rig or really an OC question but I have a weird issue with what I call my laptop replacement PC. I purchased a used Dell Optiplex 990 ($99) a few years ago and swapped out the HD for a SSD. It ran very well but would run out of ram. Later I upgraded to 16GB and around the same time replaced the i5 with an i7-2600S (max it will support).
> 
> I started to get random lag issues at some point a few months ago (I thought it maybe related to a Windows update). The solution was always to reboot and at first I just thought it was Chrome (I tend to keep a lot of tabs open on forums etc.).
> 
> I did all kinds of troubleshooting and could not isolate to a driver program or service. I followed some YouTube antilag setting recommendations but nothing seems to prevent it from cropping back up.
> 
> Recently I discovered (on a fluke) that I do not even have to restart the OS, I can simply hibernate and resume within a few seconds and the lag will be gone again for several days. I have done this 2x this week and each time it resolved the lag. This kind of makes me think it is hardware related but not sure. I runs perfectly fine between reboots/hybernation.
> 
> I have checked temps etc. and nothing that reports in the system is out of spec or even over 45 idle 80 full load.
> 
> PC is only used for email, printing, scanning and forums etc. I thought about putting old i5 back in to see if it is either cpu or power issue (maybe this MB isnt really rated for it?).
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> TIA





aDyerSituation said:


> I had issues like this on my last system that were resolved with a fresh windows install. I would start there before spending too much time on it


^that.
i would also suggest looking at the bios and see if anything "looks weird" you have swapped the HD/SSD (ports?) and cpu. it should be fine but. . .i'd check for giggles.


----------



## Sleepycat

It is probably one of the software that is running in the background with a bad memory leak, not releasing any unused allocated memory, until you do a restart or hibernate.


----------



## noxious89123

sonixmon said:


> I did all kinds of troubleshooting and could not isolate to a driver program or service.


How did you test this?

I found that weird issue with Nahimicservice.exe (in the other thread) by simply going through the list of running services and stopping them one by one and retesting for the issue.

Could be worth playing with Safe Mode to see if that eliminates the problem, as it would atleast give you an indication that it's a driver / software issue, rather than failing hardware.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Posts removed. Please play nice with each other. Being condescending is not necessary to get a point across.


----------



## sonixmon

HeLeX63 said:


> More ram and faster CPU, you are increasing the heat output. Is it thermal throttling in any way ? Plug the fan back in ?


I have eliminated heat on everything that has sensors (CPU, MB etc) but this is limited in this OEM PC. Also if I hibernate and instantly resume it is gone 1-2 days (actually going on 3 at this point). It could be VRM or something with no reading but thats a quick recovery?



looniam said:


> ^that.
> i would also suggest looking at the bios and see if anything "looks weird" you have swapped the HD/SSD (ports?) and cpu. it should be fine but. . .i'd check for giggles.


Yes Bios is very basic in this and was updated but its an older model so I believe no more updates (will check again for grins).




Sleepycat said:


> It is probably one of the software that is running in the background with a bad memory leak, not releasing any unused allocated memory, until you do a restart or hibernate.


I thought this too but hibernate resume reloads the memory from disk as is (I believe). That is what has me perplexed. I havent tried standby but may.



noxious89123 said:


> How did you test this?
> 
> I found that weird issue with Nahimicservice.exe (in the other thread) by simply going through the list of running services and stopping them one by one and retesting for the issue.
> 
> Could be worth playing with Safe Mode to see if that eliminates the problem, as it would atleast give you an indication that it's a driver / software issue, rather than failing hardware.


I closed all open apps and watched task manager, nothing spikes cpu, I just get the typical interrupt message in TM so there is something causing a hang on the CPU. Also I do not even see that service in my list of services.



ENTERPRISE said:


> Posts removed. Please play nice with each other. Being condescending is not necessary to get a point across.


Thank you. I know this seems a noob question to some and I don't care to qualify my PC experience (not worth it and I don't care what anyone thinks) but it has been an intermittent thorn in my side for a few months and thought it was a Win update that may have caused it. Though I always custom build my PC's I needed a replacement laptop for 24/7 use and no longer needed it to be mobile so I decided to get a small prebuilt low wattage etc. My plan is to get one of the newer nicer more custom mini PC's but I have to wait for the market to settle down so I am trying to get another year (hopefully) out of this. Probably will just reinstall but not having some of the old work software is holding me back.

Appreciate all the positive suggestions, kind of waiting for it to happen again so I can check Handles (so far max is 45k for Dropbox but it is not climbing). I will also kill services this time individually that was another good suggestion.


----------



## sonixmon

Started to creep back in today, mouse lag and youtube A/V stutter. Tried to kill all services that system will let me, no noticeable change. Killed all programs etc. no change. I tried standby this time (for 2 seconds) and issue gone again. I guess it is not the end of the world if I deal with that just annoying and why 2+ days to start up again. I did this just before 10 pm so I will note the next time this happens as well...


----------



## PWn3R

sonixmon said:


> Started to creep back in today, mouse lag and youtube A/V stutter. Tried to kill all services that system will let me, no noticeable change. Killed all programs etc. no change. I tried standby this time (for 2 seconds) and issue gone again. I guess it is not the end of the world if I deal with that just annoying and why 2+ days to start up again. I did this just before 10 pm so I will note the next time this happens as well...


If there wasn’t a program with a ton of open handles, it could also be a DPC latency problem. You could try downloading this tool and starting it the next time it happens.






Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks


LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks



www.resplendence.com





This tool will tell you if there is a specific driver that is taking too long to handle interrupt requests or process information. It also gives you an average response time which is useful. Good luck sir!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## noxious89123

sonixmon said:


> Started to creep back in today, mouse lag and *youtube A/V stutter.*


Hmm.

Might not do anything, but maybe worth a shot. Next time it lags out, hit *Win+Ctrl+Shift+B*. This combo will restart your graphics driver. You'll hear a beep and the screen will flicker black for a second, and should then return to normal.



PWn3R said:


> If there wasn’t a program with a ton of open handles, it could also be a DPC latency problem. You could try downloading this tool and starting it the next time it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
> 
> 
> LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
> 
> 
> 
> www.resplendence.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This tool will tell you if there is a specific driver that is taking too long to handle interrupt requests or process information. It also gives you an average response time which is useful. Good luck sir!


+1 for LatencyMon. I've used it before, but I can't remember _why._


----------



## sonixmon

noxious89123 said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Might not do anything, but maybe worth a shot. Next time it lags out, hit *Win+Ctrl+Shift+B*. This combo will restart your graphics driver. You'll hear a beep and the screen will flicker black for a second, and should then return to normal.
> 
> 
> +1 for LatencyMon. I've used it before, but I can't remember _why._


I will try that combo next time it happens again for sure.

I have run Latency Mon but it has really been inconclusive so far. While the issue isnt happening it does have higher than normal latency (but it isn't a gaming PC etc.). When the issue is happening Latency Mon is all over the place, reporting different drivers etc. I will have to try it again and look at DPC counts, but running it now it is showing USBPort.sys. One thing that kind of dawned on me is I am using an older cheap LED backlit keyboard on this PC. It used to use it for gaiming years ago but it has the occasional missed key. Not very often but it got me thinking, this is one of the symptom's when the problem starts along with mouse hickups. Obviously going to standby or Hibernate turns the keyboard off, maybe it is the culprit My kid has the only other non gaming KB I have so I may snag that and try it next time. I will also pull the USB and reset kb when it happens. Probably stupid that I didn't think of that before, have to wait a few days I guess...

Thanks guys.


----------



## sonixmon

Several windows updates that required reboots delayed my testing but did help prove it is a time based issue. No issues all week with the two reboots. It started again this morning and I tried the *Win+Ctrl+Shift+B* to reset video and that did not make a difference. Checked latency mon again and it was spiking a lot. I did a standby for 2-3 seconds and resumed PC and the spikes were gone. It always seems to be CPU 0 but it is probably the default cpu for tasks I assume. I checked in bios about controlling active cpus but the only options are all, 1 & 2 (check boxes). Not sure how that works with 4 so I decided to turn off Hyper Threading instead. So now the waiting game to see if it comes back. If it returns I will throw the i5 CPU back in and see what it does.

I am still looking at replacement options but it is not a great time to buy anything. Re-installing is still an option but to me it seems more hardware related.

Here are screenshots of LM, Wdf01000.sys lag spiking to 171ms! From my research this isn't the culprit but the artifact as it handles hardware level communication.

LatencyMon with issue:










After brief standby same programs running (10GB in use).










With HT disabled, highest peak after 20 mins is USBPort.sys at 7ms. Not good for audio production (but I do not use this PC for that) and no noticeable lag etc. will see if this makes a difference in a few days.


----------



## noxious89123

Hmm, Googling Wdf01000.sys does show that it can be related to "incompatible drivers or faulty hardware". Could be a corrupt driver somewhere.

Difficult problem to pin down for sure. I think a Windows reinstall would be my next move, but I can appreciate that can be a massive PITA. It would help rule out a software side problem though.


----------



## sonixmon

noxious89123 said:


> Hmm, Googling Wdf01000.sys does show that it can be related to "incompatible drivers or faulty hardware". Could be a corrupt driver somewhere.
> 
> Difficult problem to pin down for sure. I think a Windows reinstall would be my next move, but I can appreciate that can be a massive PITA. It would help rule out a software side problem though.


Yea I am really thinking hardware because dont think a quick standby would likely fix a driver issue. I am in the waiting game again after turning off Hyper Threading. I haven't seen any performance hits from doing this either so if it works I will leave it. If not I will try the i5 cpu again and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks!


----------



## Sleepycat

Does slightly increasing SOC voltage make a difference?


----------



## sonixmon

Sleepycat said:


> Does slightly increasing SOC voltage make a difference?


This is a SFF Dell (not the system in my sig) that I bought off eBay and threw a few upgrades into it. No voltage controls etc. in Bios.


----------



## noxious89123

Sleepycat said:


> Does slightly increasing SOC voltage make a difference?


This is for sonixmon's other machine, not their Ryzen machine 

Dell Optiplex 990 with an i7-2600S

EDIT: Derp, didn't see previous post.


----------



## Fight Game

I would try switching off any power saving features the cpu has in the bios. and using the performance setting in the power plan.


----------



## sonixmon

Thanks I have set CPU Min/Max to 100% in power plan and originally looked for power settings in the "simple" bios it has but I will double check on next reboot to be sure.


----------



## sonixmon

Issue came back today right on schedule so Hyperthreading didn't make a difference. I dug through Bios again and did find Intel Speedstep, disabled that and now MHz locked around 2800 so will have to wait a few more days. Amazing to me that it runs fine then starts to creep in within 36 hours at 48 seems to be real noticeable and gets worse after that. A quick standby resets the clock without touching any running apps!

Hopefully this information will help someone else if anyone has dealt with this, I have seen people discussing the issue but not correlating time to it.


----------



## sonixmon

No change with Speedstep disabled. This weekend I will reinstall the old i5 chip and see, I guess it could just be a bad CPU? It was a cheap eBay upgrade after all...


----------



## noxious89123

I suppose it's possible, I've seen other weird inexplicable stuff before.

I have a "damaged" P8P67 Pro motherboard that is otherwise perfectly functional and reliable, with the exception that I am unable to change the multiplier of an unlocked i7-2600K. This "damage" occured at the time when I installed a "faulty" PSU. Faulty in that it wouldn't start the PC the first time from a cold boot, but would after being power cycled.

It was all very weird, I had to get the PSU replaced under RMA and replaced the P8P67 Pro with a second hand P8Z68-V Pro GEN3, which restored full functionality.


----------



## sonixmon

I finally got around to swapping back to the i5, at first I didn't think it was going to act up but then I started to notice slight hiccup's again after about 3 days this time. I did a quick system standby and of course it cleared up. I will see if it takes 3 days again (usually starts at day 2 and unusable by day 3). So it is either hardware issue (MB, power delivery etc.) or OS. I may bite the bullet and reinstall or I might just let the system standby after 4 hours of non use. I used to need it on 24/7 for remote access but I don't use that much anymore.

Might do a new full backup, quick re-install without reinstalling all my work apps (occasional use) to see if issue persists with a bare bones OS. What has me stumped is what in OS would correct itself with a quick 2 second standby, not restart or hibernate


----------



## noxious89123

It sounds like a very frustrating issue to diagnose for sure. I wish I was savvy enough with the in-depth workings of Windows to be able to shed some light, but I'm afraid it's beyond me. I'll be keeping a keen watch to see if you figure it out though!


----------



## sonixmon

Yea it has been, at least now I figured out I just need to do a quick standby 1-2 seconds and don't have to close any apps! I know enough to figure out there is something causing random latency spikes but it doesn't appear to be any single driver or process. I will update after the OS install, keeping it updated for anyone who might run into this in the future.

TY


----------



## noxious89123

sonixmon said:


> keeping it updated for anyone who might run into this in the future


The hero that we all need


----------



## sonixmon

So, I have an interesting update, a permanent Band-Aid if you will.

Since I have not had time (or motivation to fully reinstall, especially since I think it is probably hardware related) I decided to schedule a standby every morning at 5:45 am. The system always wakes right back up (due to programs running I imagine) and I just have to enter my pin in the morning when I start using it. The issue has not happened since I scheduled this to start.

As soon as pricing (hopefully) comes back to some kind of new inflation amount and not 2x a year ago. I plan to build a little mini replacement PC. For now, this has solved my issue using automation and is no longer an annoyance!


----------



## noxious89123

Haha, hey if it works it isn't stupid!

Glad you came back to update


----------

