# Incredible X-Fi mod *WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY*, 56K WARNING



## FlaKing

Damn, very nice. I wonder if you can do that with the smaller profile cards. Wish I had enough balls to undertake a project like that.


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## cyberspyder

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FlaKing* 
Damn, very nice. I wonder if you can do that with the smaller profile cards. Wish I had enough balls to undertake a project like that.

Nope, here's a complete list:

Quote:

*THE X-FI CARDS THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED:*
-X-Fi XtremeAudio
-X-Fi XtremeGamer
-Any of the low-profile X-Fis

*THE GOOD ONES TO GET:*
X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic (best value)

*ONES I AM UNSURE ABOUT*:
X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
This is one of the new ones. The other new ones are the XtremeAudio and XtremeGamer, which are both low profile. The low profile models do not support digital out (not easily, anyway), and they use lower quality components. The XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series is also new, but it is not low profile. If it is based on the same model as the good ones, it would be OK, but I don't know if it is. So it would be best to just avoid it.
BRendan


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## TransfuSe

I didn't really read it, but what does this improve?


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## JoeUbi

I wish I have the B477$ to do that... My hands are too shaky for stuff like that. Nice find though!


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## Chosen

I would LOVE to do this. Unfortunately I dont have so called "surgon hands".

I could do the cap, I dunno about the opamp though.


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## Namrac

Just so you guys know, Soloz does this kind of stuff in a business. I believe he sells both pre-modded cards and modding services. I know I'm gonna talk to him about modding my XtremeMusic this summer, I'm no good at soldering.


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## cyberspyder

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Namrac* 
Just so you guys know, Soloz does this kind of stuff in a business. I believe he sells both pre-modded cards and modding services. I know I'm gonna talk to him about modding my XtremeMusic this summer, I'm no good at soldering.









I believe he only does the modding part, since only interconnects are sold on his site.

Brendan


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## d3daiM

I will do it.

But does it really improve sound quality greatly?


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## d3daiM

I would do this, except the shielding looks..pretty bad..

Is there any other more, aesthetically pleasing method?


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## USlatin

Ok, I just put in my purchase for the *X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series ar Newegg* for $140, and if you help me out here I will let you guys know how these mods work on it. From the looks of it, it seems to be the same card with different processors... so all the stuff should apply. ::crossing fingers::

I had to buy one now so as to have good playback, NOW. I start editing a movie the 15th... but what I really want is a modded card. I found the X-Fi XtremeMusic at Amazon for $60 refurbished and $85 new, but since I don't know how it sounds off the bat I decided to get the newer one so my sound is ok if I don't get to modd it before I start editing.

Did you place the orders by phone? What was your grand total $ spent?

Should I expect a boost on performance from the audio processing being handled by the card?

You said to mount cards down low away from video cards, but what about the ones that have the PSU in the bottom? Does that still apply?

I will replace the input opamp for sure and I could record clips of the before and after to post here for you guys to get an idea of what these tiny suckers do!


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## Chapstick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
come on! just do it... it is a purpose driven task...









What card is that one in the post pictures?

I want to do it but I don't know which card to buy?

I have to buy one so as to have good playback NOW cause I start editing a movie the 15th... but I want to mod it later... can you give us links to the places to buy the stuff? or maybe a link to a modder that could ship me one ready to go this week?

You said to mount cards down low away from video cards, but what about the ones that have the PSU in the bottom? Does that still apply?

X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic There's the cards that work.


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## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
I would do this, except the shielding looks..pretty bad..

Is there any other more, aesthetically pleasing method?

I'm not sure if it would work, but couldn't you paint one of the sides of the EMI paper black?


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## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I'm not sure if it would work, but couldn't you paint one of the sides of the EMI paper black?

That sounds great... or just apply black gaffer tape to it

Hey Chapstick, sorry about the editing after you replied, I didn't realize people were still up.

Yea, I saw the list of modding certified cards, but as I mentioned it in my edit to the post I need something good now... and with the cheapest card being $80 and this new one $140 I though I should just go for it and be the one to verify if the mod works or not... I'll examine it, take 8MP pics of it and post them for the experts to look at... and if it won't work I'll RMA it.


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## soloz2

I've been modding the x-fis on an individual basis for head-fi members if they ask me to, but no I haven't put anything up on my site.

I've also changed the mod a little bit for my card and the few cards I've done for others.
Instead of shorting the decoupling caps I replace them with higher quality audio-grade caps. Any cap in the audio path will degrade SQ, but I chose to do this for 2 reasons. 1. upgrading will yeild better SQ then stock and 2. keeping the caps there helps protect against DC offset. Even a little bit of DC offset if connected to an amp w/o DC offset protection will grow exponentially and can cause serious damage to headphones or speakers. Plus many people power headphones directly out of the x-fi jacks.
I also use a 1000uf Blackgate for the Power position because it simply is not necessary to use a 2200uf cap there. The smaller cap still gives all the benefits of having a better and larger cap without some of the potential problems of having such a large cap on a sound card that wasn't designed for that much capacitance.

Here's my x-fi with stereo mods


oh, and for those of you concerned about the grayish looking ERS paper being visible through your case window... I'm working on something to make it look a little better. I'm out of glue though so I have to wait until next week. I'm probably going to use it on the back (top) of my x-fi and on top of my PSU since it sits below my x-fi


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## cyberspyder

Actually, if you're afariad to mod your card, you can always opt for the HT Omega Claro Plus. It is a high-end card for a very not-high-end price. Its opamp performs virtually the same as the LM4562, so you can expect similar performance between it and the X-Fi card (modded).

Brendan


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## ENTERPRISE

Interesting but I dont think ill mod mine thanks lol.


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## DuckieHo

Very nice... a project to look foward too. With all the hardware changes, there won't be any driver issue... correct?

EMI paper = Faraday Cage = mesh paper ?


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## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckieHo* 
Very nice... a project to look foward too. With all the hardware changes, there won't be any driver issue... correct?

EMI paper = Faraday Cage = mesh paper ?

No, there are no driver changes, the cards work just fine w/o even a reinstall.

I use ERS paper.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/ers_cloth_e.html

It is pretty spendy though.... $20 a sheet plus shipping. (I've got 3 sheets sitting next to me







)


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## TheLegend

How much ching does this project require?

If I don't have much experience with soldering, should I even consider trying this?


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## BugBash

A VERY steady hand is needed to solder Surface Mount Devices!

This is an EXCELLENT Idea,
I have been reading about upgrading the capacitors in my NAIM AUDIO Preamp
Ive also still got to build my Active Crossovers(they have 8pin DIL opamps)

Would shielding the whole card make any benefits? (Not that I have one!)

presumably improvements could be made to any half decent sound card with crappy opamps

REP+ tho matey!


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## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheLegend* 
How much ching does this project require?

If I don't have much experience with soldering, should I even consider trying this?

well figure:

$6 plus shipping for op-amp (each) digikey (24 for surround sound)
$10 plus shipping for blackgate
$4 plus shipping for nichicons (16 for surround sound)
$20 plus shipping for ERS paper

so you're looking at under $50, so overall not bad (but for stereo mods)

but should you try it no... the op amp is SMD you shouldn't even try this if you don't have a lot of experience. Plus even the caps are a PITA bc the card acts like a heatsink. the decoupling caps aren't too bad, but the power cap will cause grief. the op-amp is smaller then the finger nail on your little finger and has 8 pins that need to be soldered to the board. Not a beginners task.


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## TheLegend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
but should you try it no... the op amp is SMD you shouldn't even try this if you don't have a lot of experience. Plus even the caps are a PITA bc the card acts like a heatsink. the decoupling caps aren't too bad, but the power cap will cause grief. the op-amp is smaller then the finger nail on your little finger and has 8 pins that need to be soldered to the board. Not a beginners task.

Since you are doing these mods for guys at Head-Fi, how much are you charging to do a 5.1 setup including parts and are you willing to give your fellow OC.net member a little discount?


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## Danbeme32

I just order the LM4562 SOIC from the web site. 3 samples all you have to do is pay for shipping it cost like $10. I'll have it put on buy this guy at work. I'll start with this and work my way up


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## rx7speed

bookmarking and question time.

I don't recall off hand but do they offer something that will allow plug and play of surface mount components? I don't mind soldering that much but haven't done much surface mount stuff but rather larger stuff like. so if I could get something that would allow me to just swap I would be happy.

what problems would a larger power cap cause? never worried about it before but then again I'm no engineer just learning with audio.


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## soloz2

you could theoretically use something like this with a socket soldered to it and then you could roll DIP op-amps

http://cimarrontechnology.com/index....PROD&ProdID=20

But you'd have to make sure the op-amps are compatible (not just the pin config)

there is moer of a problem with the specs of the cap then the size... but too much of an increase isn't necessarily good when the circuit wasn't designed for that much reserve.


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## rx7speed

I acn understand in other places more can cause problems just harder for me to see it on the ac filtering part. but either way I can take it conservative. would be easier on the wallet anyway 

are there any sockets though that can work will allow you to plug in surface style chips though? or would one have to bend pins? and are the pins the same spacing? as I said haven't done much with this stuff yet. mostly analog discrete components and even then I'm not the greatest


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## Danbeme32

soloz2 do I really have to short out the decoupling caps when replacing the op-amps. and shoud I replace the surround ones too. would it make a difference.


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## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rx7speed*


I acn understand in other places more can cause problems just harder for me to see it on the ac filtering part. but either way I can take it conservative. would be easier on the wallet anyway 

are there any sockets though that can work will allow you to plug in surface style chips though? or would one have to bend pins? and are the pins the same spacing? as I said haven't done much with this stuff yet. mostly analog discrete components and even then I'm not the greatest


well for starters the power cap on the x-fi is not an AC filtering cap... the sound card gets its power from the mobo, which in turn gets its power from the psu... it's all DC. and shouldn't be more then 12v at all!

no, you can't socket surface mount parts... only through hole


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## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Danbeme32*


soloz2 do I really have to short out the decoupling caps when replacing the op-amps. and shoud I replace the surround ones too. would it make a difference.


no you don't have to short them. Like I suggested it would be safer to replace them with higher quality caps. But shorting will give the best SQ. You can leave them be if you don't want to mess with them.

you should replace the surround sound op-amps and caps if you use the surround sound features of your x-fi. if you only use stereo then only upgrade the stereo output


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## Danbeme32

ok sounds good. 1 how to you shorten them out and 2 what good quality caps should I get because I do use surround sound I have the z5500 logitech and the x-fi extreme music card. am building new rig so I like to hear this babys pump


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## soloz2

on offense but if you don't know how to short a cap I think this mod is a little beyond your current skills


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## rx7speed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
well for starters the power cap on the x-fi is not an AC filtering cap... the sound card gets its power from the mobo, which in turn gets its power from the psu... it's all DC. and shouldn't be more then 12v at all!

no, you can't socket surface mount parts... only through hole

sorry not a/c but rather filter out the pulsating nature of the DC.


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## Danbeme32

I have a guy that at work that would do the job for me. what is a good quality cap. I just want to have sure. thanks for the help. or if you do this kind of work on the side let me know


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## DuckieHo

What is the rating on those four caps?


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## grip_racer

oh man this is a great thread. my friend is an electrical engineer with plenty of experience soldering boards together.

we're going to do this one weekend


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## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* 
Actually, if you're afariad to mod your card, you can always opt for the HT Omega Claro Plus. It is a high-end card for a very not-high-end price. Its opamp performs virtually the same as the LM4562, so you can expect similar performance between it and the X-Fi card (modded).

Brendan

Ok..... The edd is out of stock but they come in Monday the 7th... (ETA) so I looked at the price and it seems the HT Omega Claro Plus is $175 and the other option is to get the new X-Fi and modd it... which will put me above the Omega's cost...

People could get the cheaper X-Fi for $80 and mod it for $50 and spend $130 and save a bit...

Though if you take insulation into account the Caro needs to be bumped up $30 for the paper...

I will get the Caro myself, that way I have good sound off the bat and don't have to worry, but I will at least insulate it!


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## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
Ok..... The edd is out of stock but they come in Monday the 7th... (ETA) so I looked at the price and it seems the HT Omega Claro Plus is $175 and the other option is to get the new X-Fi and modd it... which will put me above the Omega's cost...

People could get the cheaper X-Fi for $80 and mod it for $50 and spend $130 and save a bit...

Though if you take insulation into account the Caro needs to be bumped up $30 for the paper...

I will get the Caro myself, that way I have good sound off the bat and don't have to worry, but I will at least insulate it!









Caro is good for music... but not for gaming, correct?


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## USlatin

this one in particular is actually supposed to support all game sound processing...

I got a sheet of ERS paper, wish we could have done a little group buy, prices were annoyingly set so I would have a very hard time picking which way to go. Four of use buying together would have saved us a bundle.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/accessories.html


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## rx7speed

it doesn't seem to support anything above eax2 so not quite all


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## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
well figure:

$6 plus shipping for op-amp (each) digikey (24 for surround sound)
$10 plus shipping for blackgate
$4 plus shipping for nichicons (16 for surround sound)
$20 plus shipping for ERS paper

so you're looking at under $50, so overall not bad (but for stereo mods)

but should you try it no... the op amp is SMD you shouldn't even try this if you don't have a lot of experience. Plus even the caps are a PITA bc the card acts like a heatsink. the decoupling caps aren't too bad, but the power cap will cause grief. the op-amp is smaller then the finger nail on your little finger and has 8 pins that need to be soldered to the board. Not a beginners task.

Wait..what are you using the nichicons for? I thought you had a choice of replacing the power filter capacitor with either a blackgate (best choice) or a nichicon?


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## d3daiM

Also: Tell me more about this idea for a better looking ERS paper.

I plan on doing this mod soon


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## d3daiM

And there's a total of FOUR opamps I must have..correct?


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## DontPassTheFence

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
And there's a total of FOUR opamps I must have..correct?

4 for surround, and one more for the input if you do recording. As far as I can tell.


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## noname

nice mod , hey soloz , do you think i could send you my card and have this done to my card? Of course ill pay , but will it really make that much of a sounding difference?


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## Metalica732

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noname* 
nice mod , hey soloz , do you think i could send you my card and have this done to my card? Of course ill pay , but will it really make that much of a sounding difference?

I've asked soloz before he said he can do it. Tell ya the truth i would be way to scared to do this







I spend like $150 of my own money which took me like a year to save up so i'm not looking into the idea of shorting something.

But i would totaly trust Soloz he's godly at this stuff. I bet right now he's on his kness praying to the Grado gods


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## d3daiM

If I pull this off fine, I may be able to hook you guys up as well.


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## soloz2

D3DAIM
the Nichicons are for the decoupling caps. Blackgate for the power cap









you'll just have to wait and see what I come up with for better looking shielding.









you only need to replace the op-amp that is circled for stereo, or all 4 for surround sound.

noname
if you want me to mod your card I can mod it for you, just PM me.

metalica
Thanks for the vote of confidence! but I'm not sure there's such a thing as a Grado god... lol


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## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
D3DAIM
the Nichicons are for the decoupling caps. Blackgate for the power cap









you'll just have to wait and see what I come up with for better looking shielding.









you only need to replace the op-amp that is circled for stereo, or all 4 for surround sound.

noname
if you want me to mod your card I can mod it for you, just PM me.

metalica
Thanks for the vote of confidence! but I'm not sure there's such a thing as a Grado god... lol

Replacing the decoupling caps doesn't add to sound quality, correct? It is just a more stable capacitor?


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## shajbot

What and how much improvement can one expect out of this mod and the stereo mod? I might do this since I have the Xtrememusic.


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## shajbot

As for the shield I think we just need to have the card at the bottom PCI slot and the ECS paper right on the bottom of the case.


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## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rx7speed* 
it doesn't seem to support anything above eax2 so not quite all









Really? and that's really that bad? awww... man!

So the only way to get the best of both worlds is to get an X-Fi and modd it?
Help me out guys, I still have till Tuesday when the card comes back on stock... but I have to know by Monday night cause I will have to know if I need to refuse the X-Fi package or not, wich arrives Tuesday morning...

I need amazing sound right off the bat... and I need to be able to make it full fledged PRO, hopefully before June 1st which is by when I'll be looping in my walk-in closet

PLEASE help me make the best desition


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## Namrac

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
Really? and that's really that bad? awww... man!

So the only way to get the best of both worlds is to get an X-Fi and modd it?
Help me out guys, I still have till Tuesday when the card comes back on stock... but I have to know by Monday night cause I will have to know if I need to refuse the X-Fi package or not, wich arrives Tuesday morning...

I need amazing sound right off the bat... and I need to be able to make it full fledged PRO, hopefully before June 1st which is by when I'll be looping in my walk-in closet

PLEASE help me make the best desition

if gaming is one of your top priorities, and you play a lot of some games that support it fully (BF2/2142, some others), then by all means get the X-Fi, I love mine. If music/recording is a much higher priority than gaming, then there are better choices.


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## CyberDruid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TransfuSe* 
I didn't really read it, but what does this improve?

IT's prolly hard to concentrate when you gotta pee that bad...









What a great mod.

This thread coupled with the OnlinDeal Xtreme Music X-Fi thread equals CyberDruid's first electronic gizmo mod!

I dunno why but this mod makes perfect sense to me--I've always had an appreciation for good sound systems and everything the modder describes makes sense from an audiophile POV.

Why Creative would scrimp on the Opamps and Caps is beyond me--as muich as they charge for these cards I think they could easily afford to use soid caps and better amps.

One reason I find this mod so appealling is that if you screw it up it does not take out your whole rig...unlike GFX card mods, CPU socket mods and Droop mods...which a careless application of heat or solder can destroy in a blink...

I am gonna give this a shot with one of the Frys deal cards.

Thanks!


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## JoeUbi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CyberDruid* 
IT's prolly hard to concentrate when you gotta pee that bad...









What a great mod.

This thread coupled with the OnlinDeal Xtreme Music X-Fi thread equals CyberDruid's first electronic gizmo mod!

I dunno why but this mod makes perfect sense to me--I've always had an appreciation for good sound systems and everything the modder describes makes sense from an audiophile POV.

Why Creative would scrimp on the Opamps and Caps is beyond me--as muich as they charge for these cards I think they could easily afford to use soid caps and better amps.

One reason I find this mod so appealling is that if you screw it up it does not take out your whole rig...unlike GFX card mods, CPU socket mods and Droop mods...which a careless application of heat or solder can destroy in a blink...

I am gonna give this a shot with one of the Frys deal cards.

Thanks!

I'm smelling another mod, if sucessful that could prove to be another page in your portfolio, to sell as a CD product.


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## CyberDruid

Quote:

I'm smelling another mod, if sucessful that could prove to be another page in your portfolio, to sell as a CD product.
You sneaky...you must have Haxored my Brainage

I just bought the Fry's card...now to locate a wick for desoldering and those semiconductors mentioned...

Anybody here use an online elctronics place that I should check out? This looks like fun...and Bragging rights









Not sure if it increases my e-member or not...but still looks/sounds like a good thing to try









<whistles Enzyte theme song>


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## Danavas

Awesome info, when I got the X-Fi it was during summer when I was doing nothing but gaming, but lately ive been useing my computer for more media oriented stuff. Im really considering doing this, can someone point me in the direction of the parts that I would need.

EDIT: I see were to get them now. Thanks USlatin


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## USlatin

guys, am I the only one that sees the links? very first post, in the explanation...

I am still to hear wether I should cancel my X-Fi or get the HT... can someone that knows this tuff comment please?


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## Danavas

EDIT: Mods please delete


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## DuckieHo

I've just order my three free OpAmps....

I just did some research and ERS Paper is just a Faraday Cage. Why can't I just you a sheet of anti-static bag or aluminum foil? I could use a wire to ground it to the case as well.


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## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
Replacing the decoupling caps doesn't add to sound quality, correct? It is just a more stable capacitor?

well any cap in the audio path will degrade SQ, but the degree to which it degrades it will vary on the quality of the cap. I shorted the decoupling caps in my headphone amp that I use w/ my computer so I want to keep the caps in my card as a safety measure. I'd really rather not loose a $200-300 pair of headphones.

So for the decoupling caps you really have 3 options:
1. short them like the OP says
2. leave them alone
3. replace them with higher quality caps

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
What and how much improvement can one expect out of this mod and the stereo mod? I might do this since I have the Xtrememusic.

It's like night and day. If you are able to A/B a card you'll notice an immediate difference and it gets better as the new caps burn in.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
As for the shield I think we just need to have the card at the bottom PCI slot and the ECS paper right on the bottom of the case.

*ERS* paper

the only way placing ERS paper on the bottom of your case will help you is if you're getting interference from well your floor... The reason it gets put on the back (top) of the card due to the gfx card sitting above it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckieHo* 
I've just order my three free OpAmps....

I just did some research and ERS Paper is just a Faraday Cage. Why can't I just you a sheet of anti-static bag or aluminum foil? I could use a wire to ground it to the case as well.

You can use an anti-static bag and get similar results. You can also make your own version of ERS paper. These two methods will help but are not as good as ERS paper. I can't explain why, but ERS paper just seems to do a good job.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
guys, am I the only one that sees the links? very first post, in the explanation...

I am still to hear wether I should cancel my X-Fi or get the HT... can someone that knows this tuff comment please?

It's really your choice.

Personally if you game at all I would either get the X-fi and mod it if you want better SQ, or just wait for the new auzentech card to come out.


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## shajbot

Can I have a link to the FREELM4562 SOIC? It's on National Semiconductor for $150...


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## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
Can I have a link to the FREELM4562 SOIC? It's on National Semiconductor for $150...

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html

Naw... it's as $2.43 each but you have to purchase 1K+. For free components, you need to click on "24hr Samples" and it will take you to a registration page. Register first and then lets you pick out 5 components a week for sampling.

http://www.national.com/order/sample...%2FLM4562.html


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## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html

Naw... it's as $2.43 each but you have to purchase 1K+. For free components, you need to click on "24hr Samples" and it will take you to a registration page. Register first and then lets you pick out 5 components a week for sampling.

http://www.national.com/order/sample...%2FLM4562.html


The ones I bought were a BIT different..hmm


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## USlatin

are you sure they aren't a BYTE different... as long as it is only a bit you're fine, but if they are a whole byte different you might run into problems because that means it is x8 more different you initially though it was...


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## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
are you sure they aren't a BYTE different... as long as it is only a bit you're fine, but if they are a whole byte different you might run into problems because that means it is x8 more different you initially though it was...

nice pun









I got these: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html


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## d3daiM

oh, nvm, those are the same ones


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## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
nice pun









My pleasure


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## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
oh, nvm, those are the same ones









Just make sure to get the correct packaging type... you want SOIC. I got charged like $9.50 for shipping and handling. I ordered 3... what was the cost of ordering 1 or 2?


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## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


Just make sure to get the correct packaging type... you want SOIC. I got charged like $9.50 for shipping and handling. I ordered 3... what was the cost of ordering 1 or 2?


Yeah I got 2 "free" samples of the SOIC for about $7 shipping.

I dunno why I got 2, each sample comes with a string of 40 or something..









Prob cuda saved some money on shipping..oh well..


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
Yeah I got 2 "free" samples of the SOIC for about $7 shipping.

I dunno why I got 2, each sample comes with a string of 40 or something..









Prob cuda saved some money on shipping..oh well..









nope... if you ordered 2 samples you'll get 2 op-amps


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* 
Actually, if you're afariad to mod your card, you can always opt for the HT Omega Claro Plus. It is a high-end card for a very not-high-end price. Its opamp performs virtually the same as the LM4562, so you can expect similar performance between it and the X-Fi card (modded).

Brendan

Can anyone else verify? Not that I don't trust, just that I want to get the X-Fi to mod it but I am torn... the HT seems not to support all the gaming audio so the X-Fi modded would be the way to go if you got it right down to the spelling on what I quoted, so I am now only afraid that the new X-Fi won't be right for modding... has anyone heard about it taking this mod?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005
VERY IMPORTANT... is the SNR from Creative accurate?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
Can anyone else verify? Not that I don't trust, just that I want to get the X-Fi to mod it but I am torn... the HT seems not to support all the gaming audio so the X-Fi modded would be the way to go if you got it right down to the spelling on what I quoted, so I am now only afraid that the new X-Fi won't be right for modding... has anyone heard about it taking this mod?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005
VERY IMPORTANT... is the SNR from Creative accurate?

no, that card is not an x-fi killer.

if you are asking "has anyone heard about it taking this mod?" if anyone here has done this mod successfully. then the answer is yes. I have performed this mod on more than one X-fi. I have a modded x-fi in my computer right now.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
nope... if you ordered 2 samples you'll get 2 op-amps

Really? Crap..I need a few more now..


----------



## USlatin

no Soloz2 what I meant was if anyone did it on the X-Fi I have coming in the mail:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005

It is the one that should take it but wasn't confirmed yet...


----------



## cyberspyder

Nvm


----------



## aaronman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
no Soloz2 what I meant was if anyone did it on the X-Fi I have coming in the mail:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005

It is the one that should take it but wasn't confirmed yet...

Well, it says Fatal1ty works and the Xtremegamer Fatal1ty is the exact card without the breakout box.


----------



## USlatin

you confused me?


----------



## aaronman

The guide says these are the ones that the mod works on:
X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic (best value)

And I just said that the Xtremegamer Fatal1ty is the same card as the Fatal1ty FPS


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
no Soloz2 what I meant was if anyone did it on the X-Fi I have coming in the mail:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005

It is the one that should take it but wasn't confirmed yet...

the XtremeGamer doesn't use a standard pin configuration on the op-amp. The pins are on opposite sides... I have yet to find an adapter.


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
the XtremeGamer doesn't use a standard pin configuration on the op-amp. The pins are on opposite sides... I have yet to find an adapter.

so the OP-Amps can't be changed till you find that adapter?
so it is not that it isn't known if it can be modded but instead the right parts haven't been secured and tried and so forth... so maybe I should just look for one in the list instead of trying to be the beta tester for the mod on the XtremeGamer... right?

I don't want to be stuck with "standard" X-Fi for too long/indefenitely... I thought the parts were for sure the same and it just hadn't been actually done yet so you didn't want to be responsible for saying it...
*
PM-ing about direct purchase of pre-modded card via E-Bay*


----------



## aaronman

Would being "stuck" with a stock X-Fi really be that bad? I mean, they come pretty good stock anyway..


----------



## USlatin

I agree, but I need true sound and the sad truth is that the only way to guarantee that is by going external and spending many times over what these cost. If you hear things differently it is like adjusting blindly... you won't know what you are getting... so I am hoping to be ale to get the sound that's described to be coming out of a modded X-Fi to hold me over... Just like headphones... I got two pairs of $100 headphones that you'd probably dislike completely, but they are designed to offer the flattest response possible... You usually have speakers that cost $1500 for a pair and again you'd say they sound terrible... but that's cause there is no "embellishment"... when we listen to music in our cars or wherever, just for personal enjoyment, we tweak the EQ to give us what we enjoy, and that is not something you can or should do when you mix... anyway, what I am getting at is that people are going to look at me weird... but this is all I can afford... for mixing it is not going to be right... but that doesn't mean that I'll be completely stoked when I play games!









Thanks for the help aaronman... It looks like I will be pay-pal'ing some cash over to the X-Fi tweakin' master Soloz2, to get it right and get it fast... I'll let you guys know how it sounds after i compare the output straight from the camera to the output straight from the card.


----------



## d3daiM

good luck


----------



## OverclockedUndervolted

Dude this just got bookmarked for when I finally buy one


----------



## soloz2

Yep, I've got a modded x-fi that is sitting inbetween my gfx card and psu... so the top of the psu has ERS paper (and it's black) and the top of the card has ERS paper and it's black too


----------



## d3daiM

Where do you get the black ERS paper then??


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Where do you get the black ERS paper then??











who said anything about black ERS paper?


----------



## d3daiM

*pouts*

You and your games!


----------



## soloz2

here this should help!


----------



## USlatin

Wow.... if I were ordering photography equipment from you i'dbe scared,,, lol thats so out of focus! LOL

So you set black paper on top of it, right?
Normal paper wouldn't do a thing...

Ok, so i am waiting for Soloz2 to call me so we can figure out the final details... it seems I will be getting a Modded Extreme Music from him because he allready has one and that will save time, as well as a 1/8' to RCA balalced (third down on the Left) to connect my Makie Monitors speakers (80% chances I'll have to get a cheaper set)... I believe in his knowledge so I am glad to be buying the cable and the card from him... However I will need to get it this week so there is still a chance I'll have to go with the stock card a d mod it myself if he is too busy to get it shipped to me...


----------



## cyberspyder

??? I think you placed another piece of foam over it...right? Ideally, how far away should soundcards be from videocards?

Brendan


----------



## d3daiM

Dude, I need you to let me in on this!


----------



## SAVAGE!!!

What is this paper-foam for?


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SAVAGE!!!*


What is this paper-foam for?


To shield against RFI and EMI emissions that would otherwise degrade the 'perfect' sound


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
Wow.... if I were ordering photography equipment from you i'dbe scared,,, lol thats so out of focus! LOL

So you set black paper on top of it, right?
Normal paper wouldn't do a thing...

Ok, so i am waiting for Soloz2 to call me so we can figure out the final details... it seems I will be getting a Modded Extreme Music from him because he allready has one and that will save time, as well as a 1/8' to RCA balalced (third down on the Left) to connect my Makie Monitors speakers (80% chances I'll have to get a cheaper set)... I believe in his knowledge so I am glad to be buying the cable and the card from him... However I will need to get it this week so there is still a chance I'll have to go with the stock card a d mod it myself if he is too busy to get it shipped to me...

nah, I just snapped that pic a few minutes before I left for work. I can take nicer pics







I really do need a better camera though...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* 
??? I think you placed another piece of foam over it...right? Ideally, how far away should soundcards be from videocards?

Brendan

Probably as far away as you can get it. The bottom PCI slot would be best

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAVAGE!!!* 
What is this paper-foam for?

the ERS paper acts like a shield against interferance. The foam acts like an insulation because the ERS paper is conductive and thus can't be placed directly to the back of the card.

The config I did was as follows:

X-fi
foam: insulation
ERS paper: Shield
foam: cosmetics


----------



## d3daiM

Oh? So you used black foam to cover the ERS paper and make it look good? cool


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Oh? So you used black foam to cover the ERS paper and make it look good? cool










yeah, the picture is a little blurry, but that's what I did. It's hard to get clear shots inside my computer... there are too many lights that contrast off the black interior of my case. I'll probably try to get a better shot of the card outside my computer later this week.


----------



## USlatin

Sometimes consumer cameras let you focus manually... to make your life easier zoom all the way out and then move the camera in and out till your object snaps into focus instead of messing with the focus via buttons... if you are far away that will only make it easier for you since you will only have to crop it and it will then be a more manageable size than the 2048x1536 (3.15MP) picture you uploaded... if you crop it to half the size you'll get a 1024x768 which is the average screen size in the US, and as a full resolution JPEG you will get it to 700KB, compress it a tiny bit and you'll get a 300KB pic and will hardly tell the difference...

get Photoshop... Under Image you can resize to whatever you want, telling it the pixel size or even using percentages... (50%) Under Images, Adjustments you'll see Curves... pull the middle of the line towards the bottom left a tad.

BTW, I know you can snap great ones... the pics on your site look great... but try messing with the gamma curves to get closer to film, it does wonders with no effort.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


yeah, the picture is a little blurry, but that's what I did. It's hard to get clear shots inside my computer... there are too many lights that contrast off the black interior of my case. I'll probably try to get a better shot of the card outside my computer later this week.


Is this this what you've been "cooking up" for the aesthetic ERS paper? Or is there more to come?


----------



## soloz2

I have a couple more ideas, but that's pretty much it. lol. I was just having a little fun ;D


----------



## DuckieHo

Instead of ERS Paper, would any of the following work just as good? It's just paper with metal fibers in it making a Faraday cage/shield. They are cheaper than the paper.... anyone try any of these?

www.mcmaster.com
6021T13 Grounding and Shielding Foam Sheet
3413A31 Metalized-Fabric EMI-Shielding Tape
7631A82 Multipurpose Aluminum Foil Tape
76555A724 Copper Foil Tape
9270K21 Copper Mesh EMI-Shielding Tape


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


Instead of ERS Paper, would any of the following work just as good? It's just paper with metal fibers in it making a Faraday cage/shield. They are cheaper than the paper.... anyone try any of these?

www.mcmaster.com
6021T13 Grounding and Shielding Foam Sheet
3413A31 Metalized-Fabric EMI-Shielding Tape
7631A82 Multipurpose Aluminum Foil Tape
76555A724 Copper Foil Tape
9270K21 Copper Mesh EMI-Shielding Tape


all may work to some degree but will pose more problems then the ERS paper. all are more conductive then ERS paper so they would have to be insulated, the tape would not make as clean of a finish either. the foam is thicker then the ERS paper so that is a factor as well.

In all all the solutions are more expensive then ERS paper.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


all may work to some degree but will pose more problems then the ERS paper. all are more conductive then ERS paper so they would have to be insulated, the tape would not make as clean of a finish either. the foam is thicker then the ERS paper so that is a factor as well.

In all all the solutions are more expensive then ERS paper.


Doesn't really matter if they are more conductive since any conductivity is bad. I was thinking.... black acrylic + aluminum + black acrylic. Just mount that sandwich to the back of the card? Yes/No?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


Doesn't really matter if they are more conductive since any conductivity is bad. I was thinking.... black acrylic + aluminum + black acrylic. Just mount that sandwich to the back of the card? Yes/No?


it would probably work, but I don't see why you just wouldn't use ERS paper. It has been shown to work better then other methods for audio, and it is cheaper.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


it would probably work, but I don't see why you just wouldn't use ERS paper. It has been shown to work better then other methods for audio, and it is cheaper.


I don't trust it really... why does it work better than a sheet of copper or aluminum? What's so special about? It's just paper with metal fibers embedded, right?

Besides, I have scrap metal sheets lying around so that free. Acrylic costs just $6 and should end up looking very nice.


----------



## soloz2

It's an audiophile thing I guess


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


It's an audiophile thing I guess


I'm not saying ERS Paper is bad and I still might go that route... the question is why? What's the physics behind on how well it performs? Does it perform that much better than a grounded solid copper sheet? We both know there is a lot of marketing BS/exaggeration in audiophile marketing (i.e. MonsterCables). It is also hard to setup tests that are not in some way subjective.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


I'm not saying ERS Paper is bad and I still might go that route... the question is why? What's the physics behind on how well it performs? Does it perform that much better than a grounded solid copper sheet? We both know there is a lot of marketing BS/exaggeration in audiophile marketing (i.e. MonsterCables). It is also hard to setup tests that are not in some way subjective.


I agree... except for your comment about Monster. Monster is not an audiophile company and they should not be considered along with other 'good' companies. Monster is a consumer company.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier. one of your methods may block more interference... but audio is subjective and in the subjective tests ERS paper seems to come out on top frequently.


----------



## USlatin

It is because a little bit of the metal trees' resonance will always remain even after they make the metal paper out of them...


----------



## d3daiM

haha ^^


----------



## USlatin

lol

Hey guys, I am waiting on the card modded completely (all mods) by Soloz2 himself!
Can't wait to hear it.... but I might be putting it up for same to get one of these... not 100% but most likely!


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


lol

Hey guys, I am waiting on the card modded completely (all mods) by Soloz2 himself!
Can't wait to hear it.... but I might be putting it up for same to get one of these... not 100% but most likely!


Why? The X-Fi modded is as good as the E-MU. Same DAC, but better soundchip. If you get that, then your X-Fi will be pointless, since they are both soundcards in a sense. Get an amp!


----------



## Das_GroBe

OMG this is the easiest mod I have ever seen I can do this. I am taking electronics at the local technical center and am the best in my class. I have built a Digital Multi-meter and a 15v varible power supply


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Das_GroBe*


OMG this is the easiest mod I have ever seen I can do this. I am taking electronics at the local technical center and am the best in my class. I have built a Digital Multi-meter and a 15v varible power supply


have you ever soldered surface mount parts before?


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Das_GroBe*


OMG this is the easiest mod I have ever seen I can do this. I am taking electronics at the local technical center and am the best in my class. I have built a Digital Multi-meter and a 15v varible power supply


Yeah, I know. Soldering surface mount components are actually pretty easy if you have the right attitude.

Most people listen to others that are so scared to solder a chip that they will not do it themselves. Really, it only takes a very fine tip soldering iron and some high gauge flux solder.


----------



## USlatin

I would have had no problem doing it, but I would have set a whole afternoon aside so as to be able to take my sweeeeeeet time with it... but I would have ad to borrow a gun andjust can't wait... Soloz2, did you ship it yet?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
I would have had no problem doing it, but I would have set a whole afternoon aside so as to be able to take my sweeeeeeet time with it... but I would have ad to borrow a gun andjust can't wait... Soloz2, did you ship it yet?









no, not yet. I just have to replace the decoupling caps. I've had to sneak a few minutes in here and there to work on it. So far I've managed about 4 short times to work on it.


----------



## USlatin

I really hope I can get it this week instead of Friday... it hurt to get the X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty and have to send it back... And I need to do sound testing before we shoot...


----------



## ian209

Ok, i've got a few questions:

1. Does this mod affect the optical S/PDIF output at all? I'm currently using an A/V receiver for my speakers and I love to use optic fiber cables. Anyways, do i need to solder the IC amp to s different spot or all 4 spots to affect the optical output?

2. Would this make a difference in sound rendering in programs such as FL Studio?

3. Would it make a huge difference in sound quality - as in immediately noticeable?

4. (A little offtopic). Would i notice a big difference between between the X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatal1ty FPS (modded) VS my current intergrated SPU on my P5W DH (Realtek ALC882M High Definition Audio 8-channel CODEC).

thank in advanced.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ian209*


Ok, i've got a few questions:

1. Does this mod affect the optical S/PDIF output at all? I'm currently using an A/V receiver for my speakers and I love to use optic fiber cables. Anyways, do i need to solder the IC amp to s different spot or all 4 spots to affect the optical output?

2. Would this make a difference in sound rendering in programs such as FL Studio?

3. Would it make a huge difference in sound quality - as in immediately noticeable?

4. (A little offtopic). Would i notice a big difference between between the X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatal1ty FPS (modded) VS my current intergrated SPU on my P5W DH (Realtek ALC882M High Definition Audio 8-channel CODEC).

thank in advanced.


1. no, the mod only affects the analogue output
2. it does not change any processing or rendering. the cards use the same exact drivers. Only the analogue output is upgraded
3. absolutely
4. absolutely


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cyberspyder*


Why? The X-Fi modded is as good as the E-MU. Same DAC, but better soundchip. If you get that, then your X-Fi will be pointless, since they are both soundcards in a sense. Get an amp!










I have a Sound Devices MixPre which is only a two channel mixer but it is 100% Pro approved... I also have a color-less analogue to digital 24/96 converter so all I am worried about is the modded X-Fi not playing sounds flat... and if the card does color sound then I wonder if there is a way to output the digital signal into a converter that wouldn't color it...


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


I have a Sound Devices MixPre which is only a two channel mixer but it is 100% Pro approved... I also have a color-less analogue to digital 24/96 converter so all I am worried about is the modded X-Fi not playing sounds flat... and if the card does color sound then I wonder if there is a way to output the digital signal into a converter that wouldn't color it...


I think the op-amps I put on it should be fine, but if for some reason you don't like them we might be able to find better ones. Regardless swapping the op-amps are the easiest part of modding this board... even though they're the smallest









I'm going to try to get your card in the mail this afternoon


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I think the op-amps I put on it should be fine, but if for some reason you don't like them we might be able to find better ones. Regardless swapping the op-amps are the easiest part of modding this board... even though they're the smallest









I'm going to try to get your card in the mail this afternoon

I really hope I can get it by Friday, but how would that happen if you are in the NE and I am in the SW, lol...









Really? Better ones? Dude! We should have just gone with the better ones then... Which would those be? Or you mean we could look for flatter sounding ones?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


I really hope I can get it by Friday, but how would that happen if you are in the NE and I am in the SW, lol...









Really? Better ones? Dude! We should have just gone with the better ones then... Which would those be? Or you mean we could look for flatter sounding ones?


I just meant that for the purpose of the mod I used the best op-amps that I have tried, but I know that some people have tried other op-amps and claimed they were dull and/or boring so if these don't suit your taste maybe one of those would be to your liking and be more 'flat' as you would call it. I personally think the card that is on its way to you sounds simply amazing.

I was listening earlier to this setup:
modded X-fi > Soloz Audio silver mini-RCA > Maxxed PIMETA (opa637bp for L/R, opa627 for ground, stacked buffers, etc.) > Beyer DT770 Pro/80

sound was very musical and real to life. bass was extended but not overpowering as can happen w/ the 770's.


----------



## d3daiM

Crap, so I got TWO opamps today. Now I need to get like 3 more x.x


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Crap, so I got TWO opamps today. Now I need to get like 3 more x.x


or 2 more


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I just meant that for the purpose of the mod I used the best op-amps that I have tried, but I know that some people have tried other op-amps and claimed they were dull and/or boring so if these don't suit your taste maybe one of those would be to your liking and be more 'flat' as you would call it. I personally think the card that is on its way to you sounds simply amazing.

I was listening earlier to this setup:
modded X-fi > Soloz Audio silver mini-RCA > Maxxed PIMETA (opa637bp for L/R, opa627 for ground, stacked buffers, etc.) > Beyer DT770 Pro/80

sound was very musical and real to life. bass was extended but not overpowering as can happen w/ the 770's.


Flat and boring just might be ways to describe what I need, but no way of knowing... that's how it is in the audio world though, and I doubt I'd be able to walk into a store with a show-room for sound cards, needless to say there is NO-way to walk into a place with a show-room for THESE, lol









I have 0.000% doubt in that this card will sound astounding... from talking to you I can tell you are not easily satisfied, and you are not the only one that loves the sound from these OpAmps on these cards, and many people swearing by it is the only thing you can go by with audio if there is no way to hear it like when you are picking Mics or Pre-Amps which alter the actual clip and you can listen to on a system you are used to so as to compare it to how other recordings sound on the same system... taking a trip to the nearest OCN M-X-Fi (modded X-Fi) owner's house is not a consideration, lol... so many people's opinions is all you can go by and I am happy!









Over-powering bass sounds like you mentioned just might be a problem, but not one that shouldn't be manageable by adjusting the output frequencies... right?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Crap, so I got TWO opamps today. Now I need to get like 3 more x.x


LOL, slowly but surely!


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 

Over-powering bass sounds like you mentioned just might be a problem, but not one that shouldn't be manageable by adjusting the output frequencies... right?

It's the headphones. they're rather bassy, with slightly recessed mids. They are ideal for gaming though, which is why I initially purchased them.

but when I listen to music I don't use any EQ, the tone is flat.


----------



## shajbot

Hey guys, I confirmed the order samples of LM4562MA NOPB is that the right one? And where do I pay shipping and such?


----------



## rx7speed

I see that you need 4 opamps to do this I would assume one of the 4 is only for if you are doing 7.1 for the side speakers. which one is that?

also can the dac on this be replaced or is it a more or less worthless mod?


----------



## d3daiM

You'd be better off replacing all four opamps my friend.

Dunno about that DAC chip...looks like an integral component to the board..might not wanna mess with it.


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


It's the headphones. they're rather bassy, with slightly recessed mids. They are ideal for gaming though, which is why I initially purchased them.

but when I listen to music I don't use any EQ, the tone is flat.


Hearing that makes me happy! I hope I feel the same way... I might have to go to a studio with my whole computer and hook it up to their speakers, and hear the same thing back to back to see if my setup sounds the same ad their pro-installed flat setup... that's the only way I can think of... it's a heavy sucker too!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


...Dunno about that DAC chip...looks like an integral component to the board..might not wanna mess with it.


Yea... I mean, I'd love to hear about the saga, see how it goes for someone else, but it sounds like it would be a hundred times more intricate, and it would require new drivers or a chip in the same family that was compatible with the drivers...


----------



## rx7speed

D3DAiM said:


> You'd be better off replacing all four opamps my friend.
> {/QUOTE]
> 
> no need to replace all four though. plus I only have 3 opamps comming since I only use 5.1 sound and so to replace that extra one would be more time/money for nothing


----------



## USlatin

but the day you do you won't have to worry about remembering ho you did it


----------



## soloz2

that sounds about right.


----------



## rx7speed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
but the day you do you won't have to worry about remembering ho you did it

don't see myself doing 7.1 anytime soon. and if so it's not that hard to solder in another opamp I would just rather play cheap and not buy another one







.
but that's a far off situation.


----------



## soloz2

You can't change the DAC chip


----------



## rx7speed

why not? don't do digital so no idea on that. but figured I could ask


----------



## soloz2

bc the logical upgrade patch for the DAC use different pinouts... plus it would be a PITA even if the pins were the same


----------



## d3daiM

Yeah..makes sense


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
Hey guys, I confirmed the order samples of LM4562MA NOPB is that the right one? And where do I pay shipping and such?

Where did you buy it? If you followed National Semiconductor's "Buy Now" link, then it should show up as Digikey: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksea...words=LM4562MA

Brendan

EDIT: Wow, this is a popular thread. Email notification showed up today, and it's already 20-something posts behind!


----------



## rx7speed

if it is just the soldering part I can handle that but if I would need to start adding pieces, or trying to add other compenents that would be another story. I wouldn't want to try if I had to start adding, removing changing caps, or resistors


----------



## d3daiM

You are replacing components, yes, so you are adding and removing. It is really not that hard if you can solder.


----------



## USlatin

I FINALLY got my card!

What sucks is that it was already late before I got it in so I can't blast it to test!!!

here is a pic... I got a whole set of new capacitors (well the ones that seem to be more important)









also... Zoloz2, can I cut a little square to reveal the screw on the second picture? the foam over the screw seems to be the only thing standing in the way from being able to install it on the PCI next to the Antec Blower... if so I might be able to later shield the back of my 7600GT on the second video card slot and get it completely protected from interference... right now it is probably getting all sorts of noise from the PSU


----------



## d3daiM

of course you can cut that square!

silly!


----------



## USlatin

I went to town on it... at first (when I asked) I was worried about the screw picking up interference... but when it wouldn't fit at all, anywhere, I said... screw it, lol

looky:


----------



## d3daiM

sexy!

What's up with all the cards?

graphics card..sound card..???..???


----------



## USlatin

what do you mean?

8800GTS 640MB is used for color correction
7600GT is to have a third DVI for the third monitor
the Antec blower sits between the sound canr and the GTS
the sound card is to make my ears happy








and the little red sucker is a POS eSATA external port which is going back asap


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
I FINALLY got my card!

What sucks is that it was already late before I got it in so I can't blast it to test!!!

here is a pic... I got a whole set of new capacitors (well the ones that seem to be more important)









also... Zoloz2, can I cut a little square to reveal the screw on the second picture? the foam over the screw seems to be the only thing standing in the way from being able to install it on the PCI next to the Antec Blower... if so I might be able to later shield the back of my 7600GT on the second video card slot and get it completely protected from interference... right now it is probably getting all sorts of noise from the PSU

Wow, I can't believe it took so long to get there! It was suposed to get to you in 2 days, 3 max... and it's been a full week now.

Just FYI, the ERS paper should be touching ground at some point or you may get some noise regardless of having the paper. That's why that little square of ERS was touching the screw. That is the way to get the ERS to chassis ground. Hopefully you won't have this problem.

That is crazy tight!


----------



## binormalkilla

You guys are crazy!


----------



## DuckieHo

Still waiting for my OpAmp to arrive. 14 days to get it shipped from Singapore. I bought three. If I can get mine working, I will sell of one of the other ones.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *binormalkilla*


You guys are crazy!


don't knock it till u've tried it!

btw... I've spent more $ on crazier things to get that last 5% in audio nirvana.


----------



## USlatin

Like silver cables? lol!!! that's insane! but I want one really bad!









BTW:

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootion (Aerosmith)

This thing made my Logitech 5.1 speakers sound like real speakers! I can-not-wait to hear how a home entertainment set or better will sound!!!!!
I can now hear not only the guitars and base clearly defined, but it has become easy to hear the different multiple tracks within each instrument.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Like silver cables? lol!!! that's insane! but I want one really bad!









BTW:

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootion (Aerosmith)

This thing made my Logitech 5.1 speakers sound like real speakers! I can-not-wait to hear how a home entertainment set or better will sound!!!!!
I can now hear not only the guitars and base clearly defined, but it has become easy to hear the different multiple tracks within each instrument.


glad u like it!


----------



## USlatin

now I just need my monitors... got any suggestions for a good set of "best bang for your $", something good within pro quality wise, not great, just good, as in good enough to mix... then again these are speakers you would probably never want to come close to...







but you just might have a use for them so I ask

also, should I be concerned about the capacitor being pressed against both cards?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


now I just need my monitors... got any suggestions for a good set of "best bang for your $", something good within pro quality wise, not great, just good, as in good enough to mix... then again these are speakers you would probably never want to come close to...







but you just might have a use for them so I ask

also, should I be concerned about the capacitor being pressed against both cards?


I'm not too up on the monitor market so I won't be much help for you there.

As long as the cap doesn't get moved around or vibrated it should be fine. It's not going anywhere, soldered in there well and I hot glued it to the card for some vibration dampening.


----------



## USlatin

humm... I wish it fit better... I am going to try to add some ERS paper to the back of the 7600GT (where it fits) but do I need to ERS it if I only use it as an output for my third monitor... ? I would thing the GPU won't turn-on even if all the card is doing is sending a signal out... so there might not be any interference being created...


----------



## Danavas

You guys just make me want to do this more and more. I may go buy some dead ram chips for a buck from this store and start practicing surface mount soldering.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


humm... I wish it fit better... I am going to try to add some ERS paper to the back of the 7600GT (where it fits) but do I need to ERS it if I only use it as an output for my third monitor... ? I would thing the GPU won't turn-on even if all the card is doing is sending a signal out... so there might not be any interference being created...


Graphics processsing is all digital. If you are using VGA, there is some conversion. ERS paper won't help a video card.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
humm... I wish it fit better... I am going to try to add some ERS paper to the back of the 7600GT (where it fits) but do I need to ERS it if I only use it as an output for my third monitor... ? I would thing the GPU won't turn-on even if all the card is doing is sending a signal out... so there might not be any interference being created...

ERS paper will help, but I'm not sure you have the space... you need to insulate it as well. I noticed you removed most of the insulation I put around the ERS paper.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckieHo* 
Graphics processsing is all digital. If you are using VGA, there is some conversion. ERS paper won't help a video card.

The interference will come from the fan, also many electronics emit slight interference.


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckieHo* 
Graphics processsing is all digital. If you are using VGA, there is some conversion. ERS paper won't help a video card.

If you look at my expansion slots picture you'll se what I mean. IF the 7600GT was indeed processing anything it's interference would be reaching the sound card having to travel only through it's own PCU and less than an inch of air.

BUT, all my ports are DVI's, so it is all digital, so I guess what you are saying is that there won't be any processing done at all in the 7600GT since it is getting the signal completely rendered and ready for output. Right? If so then I am basically good to go...

Go is the humming from gaming... on COD2 when I look around in a quiet board I hear this humming which intensifies when I look around fast increasing the rendering activity. I don't hear any of that... so It seems the 7600GT might not be throwing out any noise...










Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
ERS paper will help, but I'm not sure you have the space... you need to insulate it as well. I noticed you removed most of the insulation I put around the ERS paper.

The interference will come from the fan, also many electronics emit slight interference.

So the fan will create some interference too... humm... I can fit a bit of paper there... just have to plan for spacing and it will not be the whole card... but I can get a nice square directly behind the GPU and fan...
The insulation I removed was just for the area covered by the plastic blower... I should be able to fit two layers of insulation for the square I just mentioned for the 7600GT, but I will only need one layer of it since you can't really see it and there is no need to cover it up with anything black...

BTW, the card also looked great! Nice steady hands on the soldering!!!! The OpAmps look like they were the stock ones!

Sorry about the focus on the OpAmps close up, but both are from the same picture and I focused on the processor and main capacitor... you can still tell that Soloz2 can solder like the best though


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
The interference will come from the fan, also many electronics emit slight interference.

My fault, didn't realize the 7600GT was on the other side of the X-Fi. ERS paper may help sound but would not help video if you are using all digital. It may help VGA... but I doubt it.


----------



## USlatin

I am not worried about the video signal... yea, now you see what I have going on... tight fit huh? lol

look to the post above, I added some pics


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 

BTW, the card also looked great! Nice steady hands on the soldering!!!! The OpAmps look like they were the stock ones!

Sorry about the focus on the OpAmps close up, but both are from the same picture and I focused on the processor and main capacitor... you can still tell that Soloz2 can solder like the best though

thanks! I take pride in my work and I don't ship out a product that I wouldn't myself use. In fact I don't sell anything that I wouldn't use myself.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


thanks! I take pride in my work and I don't ship out a product that I wouldn't myself use. In fact I don't sell anything that I wouldn't use myself.










Are you currently accepting any mod orders? Also, have you heard this mod on an Elite Pro (better D/A converter). I'm contemplating buying an Elite to do the mod on,but might just settle doing it to my regular X-Fi.


----------



## d3daiM

So, soloz, you replaced a total of 4 OPAMPS on USlatin's card right?

That is the maximum, correct?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


Are you currently accepting any mod orders? Also, have you heard this mod on an Elite Pro (better D/A converter). I'm contemplating buying an Elite to do the mod on,but might just settle doing it to my regular X-Fi.


Yes, I'm currently accepting orders. I just received a card to mod the other day and have another on the way.

I have not heard it on the Elite Pro... although I've been contemplating picking one up myself









Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


So, soloz, you replaced a total of 4 OPAMPS on USlatin's card right?

That is the maximum, correct?


yes, there are 4 analogue output op-amps. And even if you only want 5.1 you have to replace all 4.


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


Yes, I'm currently accepting orders. I just received a card to mod the other day and have another on the way.

I have not heard it on the Elite Pro... although I've been contemplating picking one up myself









yes, there are 4 analogue output op-amps. And even if you only want 5.1 you have to replace all 4.


They only send me 3, and no more. How do I get another one?







But does it really matter if only 3 replaced, included the mainopam.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


They only send me 3, and no more. How do I get another one?







But does it really matter if only 3 replaced, included the mainopam.


sure you can replace 3 out of 4, but you won't get the full effect. I would be sure you replace the stereo op-amp first.

You only got 3 bc that's the maximum you can get for a free sample.

Order any extras from digi-key


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


yes, there are 4 analogue output op-amps. And even if you only want 5.1 you have to replace all 4.


Now, what if I want 7.1?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Now, what if I want 7.1?


replace all 4


----------



## shajbot

Ah, now I have to pay...Bummer! I'm thinking registering another account with a new email and maybe same shipping info?


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Ah, now I have to pay...Bummer! I'm thinking registering another account with a new email and maybe same shipping info?



$5.78 retail.
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...730393&Site=US


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


$5.78 retail.
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...730393&Site=US


Yeah 5.78 and handling fee, and shipping free ~ $15. $15 is nothing but it's everything for me as I'm broke...I'm thinking getting another 3 samples from nationalsemi by a new email, corporate email.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Yeah 5.78 and handling fee, and shipping free ~ $15. $15 is nothing but it's everything for me as I'm broke...I'm thinking getting another 3 samples from nationalsemi by a new email, corporate email.


it's your conscience if you want to take advantage of national...

But consider that the price for the caps and ERS paper far outweigh the cost of a single op-amp. Besides, Just get 3-4 people together and do a group buy so that no one has to pay the handling fee. Digikey doesn't charge handling fees for orders over $25 I believe.


----------



## shajbot

Does the LM4562NA DIP work? Instead of another LM4562MA SOIC.

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html#Availability


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Does the LM4562NA DIP work? Instead of another LM4562MA SOIC.

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html#Availability


It would work in theory... but in practice, good luck mounting it!

SOIC NARROW = 154.00 x 193.00 x 57.00mils body size
http://www.national.com/packaging/folders/m08a.html

MDIP = 250.00 x 365.00 x 130.00mils body size
http://www.national.com/packaging/folders/n08e.html


----------



## soloz2

rofl... no a DIP will not fit on a SOIC mounting


----------



## rx7speed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


replace all 4


that is what I don't understand though why do you need to replace all 4? each soic has two channels and all four would be enough for the 7.1 surround. if your only doing 5.1 then you have two less channels to work with. it would just be figuring out which is the side channels.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rx7speed*


that is what I don't understand though why do you need to replace all 4? each soic has two channels and all four would be enough for the 7.1 surround. if your only doing 5.1 then you have two less channels to work with. it would just be figuring out which is the side channels.


because here is the op-amp configuration: the way Creative configured the op-amps you need all 4 to run even 5.1


----------



## USlatin

Soloz2 you also replaced my input OpAmp right?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Soloz2 you also replaced my input OpAmp right?


no, only the 4 output op-amps. we never discussed the input op-amp


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


no, only the 4 output op-amps. we never discussed the input op-amp



Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Soloz2 you also replaced my input OpAmp right?


Who needs a better input opamp anyways?


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Who needs a better input opamp anyways?


noobs sure don't


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


because here is the op-amp configuration: the way Creative configured the op-amps you need all 4 to run even 5.1


So whats the deal with that last shenanigan then?


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
no, only the 4 output op-amps. we never discussed the input op-amp

Uhhh... yea, I did, specifically, Soloz2...
I am editing and recording audio for my projects with this computer... are you sure you don't remember having this conversation with me?


----------



## shajbot

What kind of skill you need to do this because apparently I can't get a .2mm tip solderer to de-solder the pins of the old opamps. The damn thing is too small.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
What kind of skill you need to do this because apparently I can't get a .2mm tip solderer to de-solder the pins of the old opamps. The damn thing is too small.


Are you using a de-soldering wick or pump?


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuckieHo* 
Are you using a de-soldering wick or pump?

None, I think I have both but I don't know how to use them. I'm taking a Soldering class in the summer so hopefully I can get this right in the fall. I also have slight burnt myself along the way.









So how the wick or the pump work? I have the pump but it's kinda big for the pins or do I suck the chip out...? And I heard someone said something about flux and stuff.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
None, I think I have both but I don't know how to use them. I'm taking a Soldering class in the summer so hopefully I can get this right in the fall. I also have slight burnt myself along the way.









So how the wick or the pump work? I have the pump but it's kinda big for the pins or do I suck the chip out...? And I heard someone said something about flux and stuff.

You don't use the pump to pull the chip out.









If the pump is too big, use the wick. Basically, lay the wick against the solder joint. Heat the joint up and the wick should absorb the solder. This is probably why it was so hard. If you don't use a wick, the solder you just heated to remove cools before you get can get the chip out.

http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/desolder.htm


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Uhhh... yea, I did, specifically, Soloz2...
I am editing and recording audio for my projects with this computer... are you sure you don't remember having this conversation with me?


I sent you a PM, which is what you should have done instead of posting this type of comment...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


What kind of skill you need to do this because apparently I can't get a .2mm tip solderer to de-solder the pins of the old opamps. The damn thing is too small.


try the hot air approach. You'll just get frustrated doing what you're doing.

here are some soldering tutorials that helped me when i first got started soldering
http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I sent you a PM, which is what you should have done instead of posting this type of comment...[/url]

If you reply in a public forum I will ALLWAYS respond in a public forum.


----------



## shajbot

Alright I had the 3 new opamps in place. Sounds *definitely improved* but I expected just a little higher. Had to use flux and soaked the card to clear it out afterward. Card in, windows doesn't recognize, restarts, restarts, drivers gone, change PCI slot, boot, install drivers, card runs right in.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Alright I had the 3 new opamps in place. Sounds *definitely improved* but I expected just a little higher. Had to use flux and soaked the card to clear it out afterward. Card in, windows doesn't recognize, restarts, restarts, drivers gone, change PCI slot, boot, install drivers, card runs right in.


Glad to hear it!

I still need to pick up a few more opamps and that huge capacitor..


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Glad to hear it!

I still need to pick up a few more opamps and that huge transistor..


I'll get the extra opamps and the black gate once I get some $$. For ERS paper, can I use the anti-static bag to cover the card? The bag that comes with most mobo.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Glad to hear it!

I still need to pick up a few more opamps and that huge transistor..


Psst, you mean "huge capacitor"


----------



## d3daiM

I was testing you


----------



## USlatin

so anyone get their card modded already?


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
so anyone get their card modded already?

I just had the new opamps in, only 3 of them though. Haven't short out the 4 caps, and put in the big power cap.


----------



## USlatin

cool... I kinda wish I would have made these mods myself, can't brag so much when it is Soloz2 that deserves the credit









I want to hear your opinion on regards to the difference


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
cool... I kinda wish I would have made these mods myself, can't brag so much when it is Soloz2 that deserves the credit









I want to hear your opinion on regards to the difference

Did you get your card back?

The sound gets more fidelity and stronger at bass. Mid are always excellent now are tuned up a notch. High are super clearer and you could really tell the difference when listening to high bit-rate music and those that have lots of highs and lows. Overall I'm very happy with this mod, it has put my X-fi into a different kind of its own. X-fi's that are moddable and capable of huge improvement. I'm no audiophile but I enjoy very features that the card can spit out, music listening, gaming, movies. Btw, C3MSS is fine with 3 opamps and 1 old in Surround mode and Xpand mode.

LM4562 = win. Percentage different 36%+.


----------



## soloz2

Re: Antistatic bag:

At its best it will not be as good as ERS paper and there have been several reports of people trying this on Head-fi and getting worse results (ie. causing static)

I'm glad more people are enjoying these mods! The cards are a PITA to solder, but the results are worth it! I won't say too much else because I've already made my thoughts about the mod known


----------



## USlatin

I never sent my card to Soloz2, he modded one all on his own and I payed him for the whole thing... I believe he actually sent me the one he had in his rig to speed things up and he is in the process of modding an other for himself (and contemplating modding one of the new ones to see if they take the mod)
I can't wait to be able to afford the speakers... I feel I am holding my audio experience back big time by using the logitech 5.1 speakers...


----------



## DuckieHo

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I fried my card. I slipped and melted a resistor.... [email protected]#H$#!!!!


----------



## shajbot

Damn, that sucks man.







I had a Master IPC trainer did mine.


----------



## USlatin

man! too much coffee?
very sorry to hear that...

was it the Xtreme Music?
maybe now you can upgrade to one of the new ones and try again...?
turn it into a good thing...


----------



## soloz2

if it was only a resister you can probably replace it if you find out what value it is.


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
if it was only a resister you can probably replace it if you find out what value it is.

Those resistors on the board are very small (small wattage) I doubt you could find anything useful from a hulk of solder.


----------



## cyberspyder

OK, updated title. Sorry to hear that DuckieHo


----------



## rx7speed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I fried my card. I slipped and melted a resistor.... [email protected]#H$#!!!!



that's two down. I ended up pulling the solder pads off the board.


----------



## shajbot

Wow, X-fi cards go down faster than US troops in Iraq.


----------



## USlatin

that's a good thing... I'll gladly snap mine in half if it helps... though I must say it does sound great and I would miss it...

why don't you guys just send it over to Soloz2... though I had a small miscommunication with him he did an excellent job, for a great price, and also rushed the order for me... no worries, just good audio


----------



## soloz2

If we can figure out what value resister is needed the swap would be easy enough to do. The resisters near the op-amps are just standard surface mount resisters... I've got a few of them in my parts drawer, not sure if they're the right values though. And I'm not home to look.

But yeah, actually these cards are pretty fragile. I actually have a card at home that needs some troubleshooting... the card was faulty and didn't have good solder pads for the thru-hole components and so I need to see if I can get it to work... if not than I'm going to have to replace a card for someone on Head-fi... and it wasn't even my fault, but ehh... I guess it comes w/ the territory.


----------



## rx7speed

wouldn't mind sending it to him as he seems to do good work, I'm just a tight wad







.


----------



## d3daiM

Yes, you can easily replace that resistor with a standard non-surface mount one. It won't look pretty, but it'l get the job done.


----------



## USlatin

I would have done it myself to if it weren't for the fact that I am allready cutting the film... but hey.. if you have a week or two to wait for the card to arrive his prices aren't that bad at all... and it is nice to know that there will be nothing wrong with it since he's done many of these


----------



## keikosid

It's creatives agreement with game developers that screws us making us reliant on their hardware, any attempt at improving the overall experience with their cards is definitely a good thing.


----------



## keikosid

So if you were looking at the best possible sound in gaming, would an xfi elite pro with this mod take the crown without a doubt?


----------



## USlatin

are you asking if a modded x-Fi elite pro is the top dog?


----------



## keikosid

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


are you asking if a modded x-Fi elite pro is the top dog?


Asking if it's the top dog, yes.









Especially for gaming?


----------



## USlatin

I'd say they sound AMAZING... I mean I am listening to some MP3s and if feels like 160's sound like 128's and 128's sound like GARBAGE!

That is a good thing of course, meaning you hear things so much clearer... and what makes 128's sound bad is your new higher standards... so if the processing is top notch... then I'd say modded X-Fi's may very well be the undisputed champion of the consumer world... and I'd call then Pro-Sumer now... since these are more than just gamer cards now...

I have no clue if they do have the best processing or not though...


----------



## Audi

I want X-fi!


----------



## elliot-tronics

Hi I have the X-Fi Xtreme Music Card, my name is Elliott and I repair and upgrade the Klipsch 4.1 and 5.1 ProMedia systems all the time so I'm used to some good audio sound systems, I saw this mod or upgrade for the X-Fi and was very interested so I replaced the 4 regular pre-amp IC's with the LM4562MA and the audio caps also the power cap with a higher voltage one I did not do the shielding because I never had any problems with noise to begin with even though I have an Ati 1800XL next to this card, and for those of you who are wondering if it sounds better and if it does, how much exactly? Is it worth the trouble? The answer is YES, *in my opinion it sounds about 20-30 % better...* it sounds cleaner and a bit louder specially on regular audio CDs and MP3s, I can also tell the sound improvement on the DVDs with 5.1 Audio like The Eagles , Eric Clapton etc...I can now hear music notes I never knew existed on my CD's and DVD's If you can do this mod I highly recommend it, but make sure you can solder surface mount IC's it took me like 3 hrs to do the project but I have 16 years experience in electronics and had all the tools and parts in hand. I would also like to thank whoever was responsible for the idea on this mod or improvement, I was already thinking on buying the HT Omega Claro or the X-Meridian but after the mods, no thanks he he...








Cheers,
Elliott


----------



## keikosid

uhm why did you repost that?

Sounds like you're trying to lure people into a scam.


----------



## elliot-tronics

he, he, scam on what???








I re-posted cuz my other post got deleted or banned because I posted a link to my website...
I have my own business and have no interest on scamming anybody, check my feedback on eBay my username is the same one...better yet, google my username (elliot-tronics)
Elliott


----------



## USlatin

I guess if anyone was going to look for someone with "16 years of experience" they could ask you to do this mod for them... hummm...









ooooooor they could go to Soloz2 who is responsible for the mod AND told us about it AND did several of them before AND though I had a miscommunication with hin I STILL recommend him...

It only seems right to give the business to the guy who made this possible...

just a few of the thoughts in my head... so I am just... you know... "re-posting them"


----------



## soloz2

Thanks USlatin! whom, btw is a great guy.

re: keikosid

The Elite Pro will sound better than the other X-fi cards because it has a better DAC. The DAC in the rest of the X-fi's is good (except for XtremeAudio) and when modded can compete with dedicated recording and audiophile sound cards costing much more, so a modded Elite Pro should best most other cards out there for SQ, and definately be the best gaming card period.


----------



## soloz2

OCWorkbench has an article about this mod Here


----------



## elliot-tronics

Oh, I don't want to take away business from *soloz2* especially if it was his idea, and if its going to take 3 hrs to do this mod, believe me I will not do it for anyone because I can make $240 doing amp repairs or upgrades in 3 hrs..my intention is just to inform everyone about this great mod, because I really like great sounds, by the way my audio setup on my PC will put to shame my other sound systems including my cars and my living room







. And make sure you have some nice speakers like the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 or the Creative Gigaworks S750 to take advantage of the nice clean sound that comes out of the new and improved X-Fi, all the other PC speakers just wont do any justice..








Elliott


----------



## USlatin

ok then... that's good to hear now...

I agree about the speakers... these Logitechs don't deserve the signal they are getting...

I am going to look for something that can take different speakers though... cause I might get monitors for my Fronts and then something much cheaper for my surround... actually I don't know what I'll do cause I don't have the money now... it really sucks to be stuck with these knowing I could get soooo much more definition with good monitors...

On an enjoyment point of view though.. humm... not bad... if it takes $250 to get good consumer surround then I'd probable recommend these $75 logitechs... unless those $250 Klipsch Promedias sound trully amazing...

I wonder if there is a showroom that might have those set up?

The Creative Labs ($420) seem like rip-off.... I hate the whole small front channel thing... it makes no sense... I believe in the need for 5 1/2 preferable 6 1/2s in the fronts... I don't like the idea of mids coming from my sub-woofer and having to be boosted to compensate for decay... you loose that directional trueness that makes things so much more real...

then again I would love to hear about this from true audiophiles


----------



## shajbot

At circuitcity they have some short of showroom of speakers that you can check out.


----------



## USlatin

yea but do they have the Klipsch Promedias? / other good stuff you'd recommend?


----------



## shajbot

I think they have some kind of high end stuff in a media center room, not sure about the brand though. I got my Creative Gigaworks G500 ProGamer 5.1 for $110 on sale, it sounds OK, the Z5500 is better a little.


----------



## elliot-tronics

Trust me, the Klipsch Promedias 5.1 are the best sounding speakers for PC (period), and the only place you can find them would be on eBay, but make sure you buy from someone with feedback as a seller of 98.5% or higher or they may sell you some that don't work; but the thing is that now days is hard to get them for $250, they usually sell on eBay for $300-$400 used, I got a set that I will sell like in 1 week from now and will put it up for auction on eBay, these will be the Promedias 5.1 Ultra (the newest ones) and this set will be upgraded with better caps resistors and other goodies that I do to make them last almost forever and also to make them sound better. I don't know of any place that has them on display, unless you come to my house in TX, I'll be happy to let you listen to them







you can also get the Gigaworks S7.1 on eBay like for less than $300, the other day I saw a set like this sell for $245 brand new on eBay..some people say the mids and highs sound better on the Gigaworks, but the Bass is better on the Klipsch, but the trick is on the built in amp, not the speakers, and so I can make the Klipsch sound better than the Gigaworks ez..any other PC speaker do not even come close to these 2 I just mentioned I know this for sure, lets just say that the rest os the speaker for PC are just toy speakers and the Klipsch Promedias Ultra 5.1 and the Gigaworks 7.1 are the real thing...

Peace
Elliott


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *elliot-tronics*


I got a set that I will sell like in 1 week from now and will put it up for auction on eBay, these will be the Promedias 5.1 Ultra (the newest ones) and this set will be upgraded with better caps resistors and other goodies that I do to make them last almost forever and also to make them sound better.

Peace
Elliott











Tell me what you can do to a speaker (other than treat it well... which your mods will not change) that will make it last 'almost forever.'


----------



## USlatin

I never heard of modding a speaker but I don't know enough to say anything though it sounds weird...

I would love to hear what you have to say about speakers to pair up with this card Soloz2... I need two things:

_ hear 5.1 panning clearly
_ hear my sound flat and clear

I am guessing I might have to set up two sets of speakers or drop a few grand... any info as to what my future will hold would be apreciated


----------



## elliot-tronics

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


Tell me what you can do to a speaker (other than treat it well... which your mods will not change) that will make it last 'almost forever.'










Oh< I meant to say moding the amp panel on these speaker systems, not the speakers them selves. On the amp theres a lot you can do to improve the sound, like replacing the caps and the low wattage resistors with bigger ones and even swap the pre-amp ICs etc..


----------



## USlatin

so on something like my logitech 5.1 X-530 I could get in the sub-woofer where the amp is and mod them?

what kind of effect could I expect?


----------



## DontPassTheFence

^^ id do that if you can find some schematics of the components inside - I bet that is where part of your sound qual issue is coming from - although it may also be that the logi speakers are all tiny


----------



## USlatin

yea, they are for sure NOT the best cones for any sort of mid...

look at this auction

I am going to see if I can get them cheap... you never know... there are two past auctions with these and they went for $300 and $360

if I can get them for $250 I am in... it is a shame that I'll still need monitors after I get these... a real shame... but if I am going to spend only $300 I might as well get the product that can be purchased with "only" $300... monitors are more like $800

then I'll try to mess with the logitech's internals


----------



## keikosid

This mod is extremely good for music and gamers alike, infact I just placed an order for a mod with soloz2, but if you are mostly a gamer you reach a ceiling fairly quickly in sound quality when it comes to what kind of headphones or speakers you need considering games used compressed audio, a $150.00-$200.00 pair of headphones is all it will take to reach that maximum.

I was talking to a guy today who does alot of gaming and sells headphones from $50.00 to $3000 (probably more) and he said there is little gain when talking just games.

Music is obviously a whole new story, the skys the limit really when it comes to choosing the best speakers or headphones.


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DontPassTheFence*


^^ id do that if you can find some schematics of the components inside - I bet that is where part of your sound qual issue is coming from - although it may also be that the logi speakers are all tiny


hey find it, and show me what to ruin... I mean modify... I'll be the victim, I mean lab rat...


----------



## TheGoog

soloz2>> I'm interested in having the mods done to my X-Fi. I'm currently living in the UK. How much to get one done up?


----------



## USlatin

those speakers are already at 250...









I called logitech and when I asked for the schematics the dude freaked out like I was trying to steal their cookie recipe... rofl... I told him that too, hahaha..
sux we can't just get them easily like that though...


----------



## JoeUbi

Pffft Just buy a nice Harmon Kardon AVR-xxx and some Definitive StudioMonitor 450s like me & your set. Receiver is only like $400 & speakers are ~$325 a pop, but you get a kicken sound system.


----------



## shajbot

Just in case you guys wanna get the Gigaworks G500, its sub (housed the amp) back plate is VERY hot even at idle. It'd probably raise your room temp by 10 deg F ~, 4 deg C. :|


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoeUbi* 
Pffft Just buy a nice Harmon Kardon AVR-xxx and some Definitive StudioMonitor 450s like me & your set. Receiver is only like $400 & speakers are ~$325 a pop, but you get a kicken sound system.

with that kind of money I'd get a single pair of pro monitors but if you want to buy that set up for me I'll be happy to accept


----------



## elliot-tronics

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
those speakers are already at 250...









I called logitech and when I asked for the schematics the dude freaked out like I was trying to steal their cookie recipe... rofl... I told him that too, hahaha..
sux we can't just get them easily like that though...

lol! I know that walk, Klipsch won't even sell parts for their promedia amps either, much less sell the schematics, they even told one of my customers that without a schematic nobody could fix their amps, ha,ha, proved them wrong like 160 times already in 5 months...
Elliott


----------



## USlatin

I Need Speakers But Can't Spend... This Sucks


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheGoog*


soloz2>> I'm interested in having the mods done to my X-Fi. I'm currently living in the UK. How much to get one done up?



Send me a PM. Just an FYI, I just got back from vacation and the current wait list is about 5 people deep.


----------



## USlatin

I won Promedias! for $280 not the best deal but less than $300... not bad anyway... I hope they are in good condition!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
I won Promedias! for $280 not the best deal but less than $300... not bad anyway... I hope they are in good condition!

LOL I was watching that auction.

I am going to buy some soon, but I refuse to break $200. I may be waiting a while, but, no matter.


----------



## soloz2

That's a great deal!

Yeah, I just picked up some Logitch X540's today. I really wanted something better, but I just couldn't justify 3x the price for the next step up. When the price was $80-100 I was going to spend more... but I found them for $59.99 and figured that the next step up wasn't worth 4x. I'll only really use them to test the X-fi's that I'm modding for people anyway. I use headphones for all gaming.


----------



## USlatin

Your headphones probably sound ten times better than the Promedias anyway Soloz... you should do what I did I would use the headphones and keep the woofer on!







I didn't figure out how to do it with the X-Fi/X350's yet but might as well wait and see how to pull it off with the Promedias now anyway.

Now for gaming you do want 5.1 so you can tell where people are coming from... that's the best thing about something like the x-Fi, modding it and buying good 5.1's... you get the edge of knowing where the Krauts are coming from when the bombs aren't going off...









Now considering my situation, I got them cause I can't afford the real deal, and these might (high hopes) be the best way for me to mix 5.1!!! (without dropping a few grand) so I am uber happy about them...

Still need monitors though... only front channels though... that would make me super happy!!! I saw a pair of Promedia speakers by themselves on Ebay... must have been someone who used a set of Fronts! I like that guy, whoever he is... lol I wonder if he got monitors for editing? lol

Oh! and I get x530's back at the TV!!!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


LOL I was watching that auction.

I am going to buy some soon, but I refuse to break $200. I may be waiting a while, but, no matter.


Not gonna happen dude... not for a year or more anyway... though if you were incredibly lucky you might get close to $250... BTW, my price includes like $40 on the shipping, I add it cause that is just an other way to charge more... you can ship bigger boxes for $12


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Not gonna happen dude... not for a year or more anyway... though if you were incredibly lucky you might get close to $250... BTW, my price includes like $40 on the shipping, I add it cause that is just an other way to charge more... you can ship bigger boxes for $12


I have seen some completed listings within the past month get that low..so I have hope yet.


----------



## elliot-tronics

Anyone thats interested on some Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 UPGRADED with 90 Day warranty (only ones with warranty on eBay) just search for it on eBay, is buy it now listing...
Elliott


----------



## d3daiM

Oh brother, that's twice the amount I was willing to spend.. haha


----------



## USlatin

hey if you saw some then keep fishing... one will bite... these will be on Ebay for a while... cool, good luck hoe you get it

Quote:



Originally Posted by *elliot-tronics*


Trust me, the Klipsch Promedias 5.1 are the best sounding speakers for PC (period), ...


What makes you say this?


----------



## keikosid

I'd say the best sounding speakers for pc would be over $100,000









I think what he meant was like, best speakers within a sane price range, but what is sane? Depends on how seriously you take music.


----------



## USlatin

yea I thought that might be it, it allways comes down to how much you are willing to shed...

I got them like an hour ago and after carefully extracting my x530's (crazy cable management) I finally have them completely hooked up...

what suxs is that Michelle feels sick today and she is laying in bed (I have my rig in the bedroom cause it is the coldest room) so I can't blast them till she gets up... aghhh!!!! lol!


----------



## shajbot

Well just blast them and she will get up lol.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Well just blast them and she will get up lol.


rofl! my wife would be livid if I did something like that!


----------



## USlatin

I need a house...

this is NOT what I need... but I likey, I likey a lot...
at 62 which is about half as loud as 80 I am waking up the whole building and the people below me will sue me... at 80... the whole block... I walked into the living room and the bass was completely present... I mean it was all there... insane bas and low mid range response...

I am a but upset about the mid-range from the little speakers though but that was expected... I was messing with the EQ trying to up 125 250 and a touch on 500 but I am not sure if I am making up for the weak-link or changing my audio and I need to know how to gt the flattest response... just so I can set it to flat when working...


----------



## soloz2

you'll get better SQ by lowering all the other frequencies instead of raising the ones you want to emphasize.


----------



## USlatin

aha... makes sense! never thought of that... is there a way to figure out what frequencies need to be made comparatively stronger? and how much? like more of a mathematical way so as to be certain of the outcome?


----------



## soloz2

I've seen programs that will figure it out for you... mostly just for home theater stuff but I can't remember any of them offhand.

stereophile sells some test CDs that should help you get your system stup. it's mainly for stereo, but it would get you a long ways ahead of the game. i haven't used them, but I do have one of their other CDs and it's great. helped me with some tuning to my speaker system. not a whole lot as it's not a test disc, but helped nonetheless.

I think you're going to be on your own for the most part. but spend an afternoon and you should be able to get it how you want it. Just try one frequency band at a time and see what it does. If you have some test frequencies see how they interact with the changes you've made.


----------



## USlatin

Where do I plug the cable from my Antec 900 case to activate the headphone and mic jacks?
I don't see anything with the same amount of pins... I had one on the MoBo's little add-on sound card which had the 9-pin place to plug it in... (five pairs with one pair missing one)
the case's cable also has individual wires but I have no idea where to plug each of them


----------



## soloz2

http://www.overclock.net/faqs/80893-...anel-x-fi.html

It's possible but you pretty much need to make a special cable. I've done it before a couple times but never got it to work. I've gotten the headphone out to work, but never the mic in.

There are better directions online if you search. And I have the plugs that you need if you want to give it a try.


----------



## USlatin

that's all I want... I want to get the headphone out so I can still get the sub-woofer working at the same time with these Promedias you have to select one of the other but like that I can leave the speakers on and lower all of their volume but the sub

thanks for the link

BTW I am close to a nicer flatter curve (look at this thread for my progress and EQ settings)


----------



## sccr64472

Well, I got the last of my parts today. I think I'm gonna do the mod this afternoon unless something comes up. I've received the 5 opamps, the cap, and the ERS paper. I intend on filling my Ipod, so I wanted to do the input as well. I'll update this if I finish today









Edit: Btw, I did get the solder wick also.


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


Well, I got the last of my parts today. I think I'm gonna do the mod this afternoon unless something comes up. I've received the 5 opamps, the cap, and the ERS paper. I intend on filling my Ipod, so I wanted to do the input as well. I'll update this if I finish today









Edit: Btw, I did get the solder wick also.


Just becareful with the solder tip, don't melt anything else besides those you needed too. Several had ruined their cards just of that. And I suggest use a small wire cutter and cut the old opamps out and use solder wick to suck out the remain. Then solder the new opamps in. It's easier than melt the legs to remove the opamps. And some flux would help, but you have to clean and let it dry afterward. Good luck.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Just becareful with the solder tip, don't melt anything else besides those you needed too. Several had ruined their cards just of that. And I suggest use a small wire cutter and cut the old opamps out and use solder wick to suck out the remain. Then solder the new opamps in. It's easier than melt the legs to remove the opamps. And some flux would help, but you have to clean and let it dry afterward. Good luck.










If I can't find the perfect soldering iron today, I might run up to the tv repair shop and just pay them to do it really fast. I've used them in the past and they'd be done in like 15 mins







Btw, thanks for the tip on cutting the op amps out. Rep for you


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


If I can't find the perfect soldering iron today, I might run up to the tv repair shop and just pay them to do it really fast. I've used them in the past and they'd be done in like 15 mins







Btw, thanks for the tip on cutting the op amps out. Rep for you


I recommend using the TV repair shop. I attempted the job myself and I am decent with the soldering iron. I used low power 25w for electronics and that tips was even too big to manage the tiny leads.









Anyone want to buy a bust X-fi?


----------



## soloz2

I too have a ruined x-fi on my hands. Although, this one was not my fault. The card had faulty solder pads (read non-existent) so I had to make due and just couldn't get it to work... the output was all fuzzy.

I actually knocked one if the tiny resisters off another card. yep, one of those little guys you can hardly see near the op-amps... definitely had to solder that little guy back on... that wasn't easy, but I got it done.

So, good luck!









Duckie, I might be able to give that X-fi a look at... maybe I can bring it back to life. No guarantees...but I have an idea or two


----------



## USlatin

I does anyone want to buy my speakers?








I got bass coming out of every orifice in my being... this thing is insane and coupled with the Promedias they make the most un-realistic but cool sounding..well... sounds









I figured my EQ settings to make it somewhat realistic have to be a tad less extreme than the pic below... so that means it is doable without having to raise the gain, meaning I won't over-work the amp at all, in fact I will be doing the oposite (there might be something I did't know pointed out to me in the post below







),

Still, but the mids are next to impossible to match with the highs and lows, not an easy job... and I think I could use a bit finer (smaller) adjustments in the Creative EQ... And it definitely it requires a 20+ band EQ...

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/6586/1181437592.jpg

Is there a way to get a 20-band EQ going?

Other than that... I now know where the Krauts are coming from and I can kill humans with the simple turn of a knob... 
...they do look nice without the covers: http://www.overclock.net/gallery/sho...0/ppuser/35611

Oh, did I mention it sounds *G-R-E-A-T*?









...I do, still, wonder when will be the day I'll get the cash to get monitors...


----------



## d3daiM

I got my Promedia Ultras for $200









I plan on doing an upgrade job for the sub and then upgrading my X-Fi according to this guide soon.


----------



## USlatin

you bastard!!! nice!!!

what kind of upgrade? do you really need to make them sound better?
is it for durability? please do tell!


----------



## soloz2

I'd love to get a pair, but just don't have the cashflow right now. There are too many other things that are more important.


----------



## shajbot

I'm pretty satisfied with my G500, goood thing is I didn't spend buttload of money on it.


----------



## USlatin

Yea, honestly I don't think these speakers are worth $300... I'd much rather get something 90% as good for about 60% the money... I can't help but feel that these are for people that like to play music loud and love the over-done brightness and bass... basically the opposite from what I need... so if anyone wants to buy 'em keep me in mind cause I'll be looking at my options in the future... till then I'll enjoy them and have a party or two


----------



## soloz2

I just picked up a pair of Logitech X-540's knowing that they weren't great but thinking that they'd be alright... I'm quite underwelmed.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


you bastard!!! nice!!!

what kind of upgrade? do you really need to make them sound better?
is it for durability? please do tell!


Quality and durability.

I plan on replacing some capacitors and mosfets in the sub. It is 2 years old.


----------



## USlatin

dude you better hook me up with some pics and parts and what not... please!!!


----------



## d3daiM

I'll see what I can do.









I'm modding my X-fi along with this. I just bough the 2 more opamps I needed and the solder wick. Tomorrow I will buy the blackgate and the ERS paper.

All that I've managed to do so far was short out the caps, lol.


----------



## soloz2

If you want the blackgate and ERS paper cheaper I can probably get you some. Otherwise you'll have to buy a whole sheet of ERS paper for $20, plus the blackgate, plus shipping.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


If you want the blackgate and ERS paper cheaper I can probably get you some. Otherwise you'll have to buy a whole sheet of ERS paper for $20, plus the blackgate, plus shipping.


I would like that! Do continue..


----------



## elliot-tronics

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Yea, honestly I don't think these speakers are worth $300... I'd much rather get something 90% as good for about 60% the money... I can't help but feel that these are for people that like to play music loud and love the over-done brightness and bass... basically the opposite from what I need... so if anyone wants to buy 'em keep me in mind cause I'll be looking at my options in the future... till then I'll enjoy them and have a party or two











Tell me of any other PC speakers that are better than these and I will rest my case, as far as I know these speakers have very good reviews on sound quality...If you think they are too bright for you than you are the first person that I hear this complaint from, maybe you have the front speakers too close to you or pointing straight at your ears, or maybe your room is empty and nothing is absorbing any of the highs (like carpet or bed would) you can easy fix this problem dude, just read a little on acoustics and you will figure it out..also try changing the settings on the THX set up Console go to bass management and un-select Enable Bass Redirection and choose large speakers, also on speaker selection go to 7.1 then go back to 5.1... I've seen how you lower the E.Q thats very weird, most people I know including a few musicians usually have the E.Q in a flat position or raise the high bands just a bit, but never lower them, maybe the treble is to high on your set up?







well one thing I know for sure, wouldn't want to be in your ears lol..
Cheers,
Elliott


----------



## USlatin

for $300 you can get about three different pairs of monitors that while not truly "pro" they sound 80% pro.... that's what I meant... now on regards to computer speakers... hummm... I have to guess that you can get most of what these can offer for a significant price drop... lets just have other speaker owners tell us about the speakers they love and then we'll see... I have no clue since I've never spent more than $75 on computer speakers before... like I said I am only looking for pro monitors so don't take my comments too strongly since there is no way I can weigh in with knowledge about these kinds of speakers

I have my computer set up in the bedroom... lots of stuff here... carped and bead just a few of them... I am next to a window though...

the Bass Calibration is not supported on the Audio Creation Mode, but in entertainment and gaming modes the bass redirection was already off...

I still have to switch to 7.1 and back... but since Michelle is sleeping I can't check to see if it sound different


----------



## Safetydan

I'm gearing up to do this mod! Pretty excited about it








It seems that the first picture from the guide has been taken down by imageshack... anyone have it saved?


----------



## Chipp

And for anybody who is opposed to the paper shielding and has a bit of extra cash, www.x-sound.com has a EMI shield for sound cards.







Stumbled upon it today. (You'll need a translator)

Also, what was in the original picture? I know of several other places with pics of this same mod, so you could probably find something simmilar somewhere else.







Check out this page.


----------



## Safetydan

Quote:

remove capacitors no longer needed due to the better opamp
The original picture had 4 Caps circled to take out and short. I'm not seeing that anywhere else. Not sure how much of a difference removing those 4 would make so I'm not too worried about it


----------



## soloz2

you can short them w/o removing them at all.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Safetydan*


The original picture had 4 Caps circled to take out and short. I'm not seeing that anywhere else. Not sure how much of a difference removing those 4 would make so I'm not too worried about it










The four caps make a square, they are right by the opamps. They stick out from the rest.

Just flip the card over and place solder between each of the two points to short them out.

cheers


----------



## Safetydan

Great, thanks guys


----------



## USlatin

Hey Chipp... is that page in Chinese or something? I got a page full of question marks...


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Hey Chipp... is that page in Chinese or something? I got a page full of question marks...


Yeah, he said he needed a translation.

However, I do believe you can find an English location to find information on EMI shielding..


----------



## shajbot

Does shorting the old caps make any different in performance significantly?


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Does shorting the old caps make any different in performance significantly?


Performance? Eh?

Well, so far all I've done was short them and it sounds better. Not much more than 5% better I'd say, but an improvement.


----------



## d3daiM

So I got in 2 opamps today. It sounds great already!

Waiting for 2 more, blackgate, and ers paper.

USE A HEATGUN TO DESOLDER


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


So I got in 2 opamps today. It sounds great already!

Waiting for 2 more, blackgate, and ers paper.

USE A HEATGUN TO DESOLDER











For desoldering, I just use my soldering iron and one of those little squeeze-bulbs you can pick up at any pharmacy. Sucks up solder very well. (I think most places will sell you the same thing for like $20







)


----------



## shajbot

Just cut the legs and wick the remains out...


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Just cut the legs and wick the remains out...


I had a hard time attempting to cut those tiny legs..

..and I've never had success with desoldering bulbs.

Just use a heatgun while wiggling the opamp with a pair of pliers.


----------



## soloz2

I use a solder sucker to get the excess solder out. It's faster


----------



## d3daiM

I just thought the heatgun method was cool, because, after you removed the old opamp, you can place the new one right in the indents that the solder leaves. It fits perfectly.


----------



## jeuda

anyone tried these with the audigy 2 zs?


----------



## jeuda

I can only find this in RS.

Capacitor,Aluminium,Radial,16V 2200uF 
RS Stock No. 490-9816 
Manufacturer NICHICON 
Manufacturer's part number UHE1C222MHD

Is this as good as Blackgate?

Can i use higher capacitance?


----------



## USlatin

hey guys, nice to see people are keeping this thread alive.... hope all modds are going well...

just FYI... the EQ settings I was toying with to ger realistic dialog are waaaay off... it isn't that pronounced of a curve that you have to set... just fyi


----------



## dmhnc

Nice find rep+

........and the flame!


----------



## d3daiM

I just finished completely modding mine. I have yet to try it out though









I need to finish my computer revision and then I can do it.









I will have to take pics here..


----------



## USlatin

yea, pics man.... you've been working on that rig for quite some time now...

please post your impresion as to the "betterment" of the card


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
yea, pics man.... you've been working on that rig for quite some time now...

please post your impresion as to the "betterment" of the card

Yes, I have, I've been waiting for parts to keep coming in.

However, it's been fun replacing each opamp and hearing the tiny improvements it all makes.

I've now got all 4 replaced, shorted the caps, got a BlackGate on the card, and am using ERS paper. All good.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
Yes, I have, I've been waiting for parts to keep coming in.

However, it's been fun replacing each opamp and hearing the tiny improvements it all makes.

I've now got all 4 replaced, shorted the caps, got a BlackGate on the card, and am using ERS paper. All good.

Oh yeah, and I've got some Promedia Ultras


----------



## USlatin

yea, we got the same setup!


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jeuda*


I can only find this in RS.

Capacitor,Aluminium,Radial,16V 2200uF 
RS Stock No. 490-9816 
Manufacturer NICHICON 
Manufacturer's part number UHE1C222MHD

Is this as good as Blackgate?

Can i use higher capacitance?



typically it won't cause a problem so you should be fine. You don't need 1000uf though. Even 470uf would be fine and an improvement over stock.

I'm a fan of Nichicons, but the uhe line isn't the best suited for the job. it'll still be better than the jamicon creative used though.

I just got my Z-5500's last night







the best computer speakers I've ever heard, and so far I'm impressed. I haven't had time to really try them out though.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

some say using blackgate will make your X-fi sounds overbright.
anyone tried comparing blackgate to nichicon gold tune for X-fi?
how will Logitech z5500 speakers performs in this X-fi mod?
anyone tried using AD8599 for opamp? it performs just as good as LM4562 but with a slight differences in sound character, some even say it's better.

btw... i'm goin to mod my x-fi as soon as my LM4562 arrived. (goin to mod it according to phalanger's X-fi in layman's guide forum)
next, i'm goin to change my Z5500 sub capacitors which are 2 x Su'cson 10000 uF 50v to 2 x nichicon gold tune 15000uF 100v, and then proceed with control panel opamp mod.

wish me luck


----------



## d3daiM

It's very easy. You could ask me if you have any questions as well.

Good luck!


----------



## PiratesRule

Quote:



ONES I AM UNSURE about:
X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
This is one of the new ones. The other new ones are the XtremeAudio and XtremeGamer, which are both low profile. The low profile models do not support digital out (not easily, anyway), and they use lower quality components. The XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series is also new, but it is not low profile. If it is based on the same model as the good ones, it would be OK, but I don't know if it is. So it would be best to just avoid it.


Does anyone know for sure yet if this card can be modded?


----------



## d3daiM

lol, OOPS

I have some pictures to put up with the results of my mod. I will get to that later in a few days.


----------



## soloz2

if the card is not on the list then you would have to be very creative about the mod. The non-approved cards do not have standard SOIC op-amps


----------



## DJ.BigBear

done modding last week,
using:
1 BLKGATE- 60089 NX 1000 25v
4 BLKGATE- 60205 NX Hi-Q 22 6.3v
8 BLKGATE- 58646 Std 22 16v
3 LM4562MA SOIC
1 AD8066ARZ

burned 40 hours, really awesome! major improvements!
too bad i couldn't get AD8599 for front satellites.... but LM4562 will do just fine i guess.


----------



## USlatin

hey guys... I am getting a buzzing sound from my speakers if I make it loud enough... this has to be interference from PSU (ERS covers the top of the card which takes care of the Video Card CPU... anyone have an idea how to rig it without ruining air flow to the DAC Chip?

All I can think of is getting a second GTS and ERS'ing the top of that card... but for that to fit I might have to a. replace the main Cap for a smaller one or b. get rid of the PCI blower on my 1st card so the X-Fi has room to bend back a slight bit which is all I need...

I will buy the second GTS once it drops further... probably wait till the 8900's are out, so till then I would appreciate any ideas...

Wiaaaaaaait!!! I just put on my headphones and cranked those up.... the noise isn't there... so is this my Klipsch amp overheating?!?!?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
hey guys... I am getting a buzzing sound from my speakers if I make it loud enough... this has to be interference from PSU (ERS covers the top of the card which takes care of the Video Card CPU... anyone have an idea how to rig it without ruining air flow to the DAC Chip?

All I can think of is getting a second GTS and ERS'ing the top of that card... but for that to fit I might have to a. replace the main Cap for a smaller one or b. get rid of the PCI blower on my 1st card so the X-Fi has room to bend back a slight bit which is all I need...

I will buy the second GTS once it drops further... probably wait till the 8900's are out, so till then I would appreciate any ideas...

Wiaaaaaaait!!! I just put on my headphones and cranked those up.... the noise isn't there... so is this my Klipsch amp overheating?!?!?

More than likely it's not the amp overheating, but rather a poor connection somewhere along the line the the horns are just exaggerating. You may want to try some higher quality ICs from both the sound card -> sub/amp and amp -> satellites.


----------



## USlatin

ICs? not cables right? I am sure the cables are good enough for these small satelites...

so what is an IC Chip?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
ICs? not cables right? I am sure the cables are good enough for these small satelites...

so what is an IC Chip?









Interconnect.







Cable.









The speaker wire itself may not be the issue, but I'd look into a good mini-mini IC to go from sound card -> sub/amp. (Preferably shielded, or at least a braided design)


----------



## USlatin

so you mean better cables from the sound card to the amp... I do have the crappiest phono cables ever... completely forgot about that...

I can see what you mean, and the shielding of these crappy cables may very well be the culprit.. but how come I don't hear it on headphones?

is it cause the signal doesn't need to be amplified for HPs?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


so you mean better cables from the sound card to the amp... I do have the crappiest phono cables ever... completely forgot about that...

I can see what you mean, and the shielding of these crappy cables may very well be the culprit.. but how come I don't hear it on headphones?

is it cause the signal doesn't need to be amplified for HPs?


Well, an issue that I'm discovering with my ProMedia 2.0's is that though the horns do wonders for music, they also are very good at amplifying the noise from EMI and poor contacts (the hiss). Since the headphones probably do not have as forward an upper-register, you don't hear the hiss as much. Not proven, but just my theory. I've only had these a day or so, so I have not done much experimenting.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

are u using analog connection?
coz analog connection do give out buzzing sound @ hi volume...
the downside of using analog connection.


----------



## USlatin

These horns are way too strong or the satelites themselves too bright.... so that might be like you said a contributing factor to the noise being so noticeable but my headphones are MDR-7506's which should be better than average at clearly reproducing all noise....

yes analog, of course







, so I guess it might be introduced by the card itself then? if so spending cashola on cables would be a waste... ?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i wouldn't say it's a waste to buy a branded cables... but still... when using analog, the buzzing won't truly disappear.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

guys, i'm having this weird crackling issue on hi frequency such as the boom sound on shooter dvd or tokyo drift dvd.... well i'm not using exactly "original" version of the dvd... but it's quite good tho....

i was wondering if it was from my soundcard or just the quality of the dvd.


----------



## USlatin

what cables would you guys recommend then? link me please

Soloz, do you have an affordable solution?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

any comments on my problem guys?


----------



## d3daiM

The pictures as promised....



























opamps..










ERS paper!

Thank you soloz2 for helping me so much with this job!









And thank you cyberspyder for posting this!!


----------



## USlatin

nice clean solders Dedaim!
I am getting little black aluminum sinks on my chips... once I get my new CPU and I install the new SB cooler... we will continue having the same setup









until you do your speaker/amp mods... which you will help me do right?









I wish there was a way to upgrade cooling on the DAC chip without having to take the heatsink off... I am afraid of ripping it off


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
guys, i'm having this weird crackling issue on hi frequency such as the boom sound on shooter dvd or tokyo drift dvd.... well i'm not using exactly "original" version of the dvd... but it's quite good tho....

i was wondering if it was from my soundcard or just the quality of the dvd.

I'd say give those blackgates time to burn in. Did you use non-polar blackgates? People have had similar problems with the non-polars.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
what cables would you guys recommend then? link me please

Soloz, do you have an affordable solution?

It sounds to me like you are still getting some interference. I recommend we get some ERS paper below your card for starters like we talked about previously. Also, I do sell value priced shielded mini-mini cables. I could do a plain looking blue or black cable without sleeving to keep the cost low. They would be directional and shielded to help with your interfernce problem. They'll also be much better than the stock cables that come with most computer speakers. (your klipsch's use mini jack inputs right? or do they use RCA phono inputs?)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 

Thank you soloz2 for helping me so much with this job!









you're welcome!







and it looks good


----------



## DJ.BigBear

@soloz...

oh... so i just need to burn those caps in longer?
ah that's a relief.....


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


@soloz...

oh... so i just need to burn those caps in longer?
ah that's a relief.....


it's a possibility. Sometimes blackgates do weird things till they have a few hundred hours on them.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

ewwww....
the crackling is really bothering me....
especially when lotsa hi freq sound being produced... like screeching sound from tokyo drift... as you know... that movie has a lot of screeching sound









ooo ya... i'm not soldering with that silver WBT... just using an ordinary electronics soldering material, that should be okay right?


----------



## soloz2

yeah that's fine. I'd try regular BG's just to be sure.

you can also short your coupling caps to see if they are causing the problem


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i think i'd better post my X-Fi pics....
not exactly tidy....


----------



## USlatin

Yea, pics guys, post em in you got em! But hey, DJ, what if you need the slot below the card? or the one after even, lol!

Soloz, the Klipsch use phonos, three of them

So write me up that estimate when you got a spare minute bro, can't go wrong with your work if it isn't too much for my pocket









I am thinking to ass a plate much like an 8800 would be so I can put ERS in place where my future GTS would hold it that way it is a modded X-Fi and over-stuffed capacitor sandwich on ERS bread


----------



## soloz2

Post me a pic of the amp on your klipsch setup.

I just found a pic. It has 3 mini jacks on the back, uses TRS plugs like a headphone jack on a portable player or the jacks on the back of your sound card.

It'll just take 3 mini IC's PM me with the length you need


----------



## USlatin

the amp is the amp in the woofer... the cables are all tangled all over if that's what you are asking I gotta go shoot right now, but I'll post pics later today, thanks for responding right away


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
ewwww....
the crackling is really bothering me....
especially when lotsa hi freq sound being produced... like screeching sound from tokyo drift... as you know... that movie has a lot of screeching sound









ooo ya... i'm not soldering with that silver WBT... just using an ordinary electronics soldering material, that should be okay right?

Does this only happen in movies? If yes, then your sound codecs may be the problem.

Other than that, let the blackgates break in, or maybe it is interference, maybe ERS paper would help you out there.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
nice clean solders Dedaim!
I am getting little black aluminum sinks on my chips... once I get my new CPU and I install the new SB cooler... we will continue having the same setup









until you do your speaker/amp mods... which you will help me do right?









I wish there was a way to upgrade cooling on the DAC chip without having to take the heatsink off... I am afraid of ripping it off

Yes, thank you. The solders weren't as clean as I hoped for them to be, but, it got the job done heh.

Yeah, I dunno how you can take the DAC heatsink off....it seems to be epoxied. It is teh suck.

Of course I will help you out with the amp modding when I get around to it!


----------



## USlatin

in order:

they look perfect, took u long enough, but this was ur first solder this tiny right? props for it

Exactly, epoxied, didn't remember the name of the application but I bet it is epoxied... I might add little aluminum sinks to the edge of it to increase surface area... If this sucker performs the fades between my sound clips when previewing audio then I beat the living crap out of it daily so it can't hurt to add something to it...

Thank you! I was going to stalk you otherwise, j/k...

BTW, I saw the fireworks you added to your dancing dude avatar for the 4th, nice


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


BTW, I saw the fireworks you added to your dancing dude avatar for the 4th, nice


hehe thanks


----------



## DJ.BigBear

@uslatin
LOL, my X-Fi is @ the bottom slot, so there will be no worries about that









@D3DAiM
yes in movie only, i'm using power dvd, and whenever there is a boom/screeching sound, the crackle appears.... in movie only.

if that's true, that my codec is a mess, how to clean it or make it anew?


----------



## Chipp

You could try using another player, such as VLC or Media Player Classic. Both are free, and in my experiance do a outstanding job of reading DVDs.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i need help setting up VLC....
it gave me annoying repeating sound.... ewww

*updated*
ok just tested on WMP.... no crackling...... 
wth is wrong with my powerdvd?


----------



## aaronman

I could never get a good sound with VLC player myself.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

ooppssss...

updated....
i get crackle in WMP too, only when spdif activated (maximum dynamic range).

so the crackle only exists if I turn spdif on and set the dynamic range to maximum.... any help here?


----------



## d3daiM

Strange.

All you should need for your codec and video needs is Media Player Classic and FFDShow.


----------



## d3daiM

Try using this to clean up all your codecs and crap:

http://en.utilidades-utiles.com/down...ec-sniper.html

Then just install FFDShow and use media player classic. That should be all you need.


----------



## G|F.E.A.D|Killa

i had the same problem try setting your output to 16 bit audio


----------



## USlatin

why output 16? you can push 24...


----------



## d3daiM

Yeah, really, you are just losing quality that way heh..


----------



## USlatin

the only reason to use 16bit out is if you are outputting to a device which only handles 16bit... but to speakers do 24...


----------



## DJ.BigBear

uhum... now i'm getting very desperate....

dunno what happened to my spdif....

anyone having the same issue?

but i need confirmation here...
it only happens with movies... so that means nothing wrong with my x-fi right?


----------



## Double Helix

Im having trouble sourcing the mod parts in the UK. Does anyone know where i could get a kit, or is anyone willing to assemble a kit so i can mod my Xfi? I really want the parts. If someone is up for it, quote me a price, and add some for yourself!


----------



## soloz2

I got ya covered


----------



## Double Helix

nice one bro!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
uhum... now i'm getting very desperate....

dunno what happened to my spdif....

anyone having the same issue?

but i need confirmation here...
it only happens with movies... so that means nothing wrong with my x-fi right?

I'm your verification. I'd be surprised if this issue correlates to your SPDIF in any way.

Follow my procedure.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

ok done checking...
the crackling only happens when i set dolby dynamic range to maximum.


----------



## d3daiM

I dunno...all I say is change your codecs yeah..


----------



## DJ.BigBear

k, i'll do it later.
i'll post the result later

btw...
what is the difference between using ERS and not using ERS?
i mean the real difference in sound... not the theories

*updated*
codec sniper gave me error... no codec being displayed on it...


----------



## USlatin

you get rid of a whine... as I panned in a game such as COD2 the GPUs would fire up and I would hear a high whine... much like a turbine of sorts... so you avoid that interference.... and just consider that all of those are high freqs...

however the effect it has on your overall tone is irrelevant as it only allows for the real sound to be undisturbed... it allows for you to hear the way your setup really sounds... what you to to tweak it after it is up to you

keep in mind there might also be more subtly whines caused by PSU which are much more constant and therefor harder to pick out... if you ERS properly and do both sides you should get rid of most the interference but I'd say the GPU is the worst enemy so you might feel ok with only ERS'ing one side unless you SLI


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


k, i'll do it later.
i'll post the result later

btw...
what is the difference between using ERS and not using ERS?
i mean the real difference in sound... not the theories

*updated*
codec sniper gave me error... no codec being displayed on it...


Well, search on google for programs to clean codecs. I just picked one out of a bunch of fine tools.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

ok... as of now... i've drawn a conclusion that my Speaker (z5500) can't keep up with my modded X-Fi in Full Dynamic Range Dolby decoder.

well... what do u expect from an all-in-1 PC Speaker


----------



## d3daiM

I thought the z5500's were pretty good?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
I thought the z5500's were pretty good?

they are pretty good for computer speakers


----------



## d3daiM

I wouldn't see how they can't handle the xfi...aren't the z5500's THX certified as well?

DJ.BigBear: I think you have come up with the wrong conclusion. You should probably do a bit more searching before giving up. If this only happens while viewing videos, it is DEFINITELY a software issue.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

maybe yes....
but i did have some research on the web...
some ppl also stated that the same thing happened to a default/unmodded X-fi...
i'm not much of a PC whiz... i need atleast someone who have suffered the same problem and solved it to help me.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
maybe yes....
but i did have some research on the web...
some ppl also stated that the same thing happened to a default/unmodded X-fi...
i'm not much of a PC whiz... i need atleast someone who have suffered the same problem and solved it to help me.

Those specifications will be hard to find in our community. Maybe you should branch out for help in those other forums?

hope you get your answer!


----------



## soloz2

I haven't had the same problem, but I haven't used my 5500's in the same way as you are trying to. It definately sounds like both your x-fi and your speakers work, it is just in this one instance where they aren't working properly. Try contacting both logitech and creative. I'm sure they'll each come up with a reason why the other is at fault, but it won't hurt to try. Also, don't mention your x-fi is modded


----------



## DJ.BigBear

thx soloz2
but i forget to mention that the tech support of any IT products in my country is... ******ed







...
so, that was not an option for me unfortunately.

but i did post in creative forum aout my problem.... still no answer tho.
just done uninstalling all codec pack, driver, changing x-fi on other PCI slot. goin to test now.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


thx soloz2
but i forget to mention that the tech support of any IT products in my country is... ******ed







...
so, that was not an option for me unfortunately.


I'm sorry to hear that

Quote:



but i did post in creative forum aout my problem.... still no answer tho.
just done uninstalling all codec pack, driver, changing x-fi on other PCI slot. goin to test now.


that's a good idea I hope it works


----------



## DJ.BigBear

done....
for some dvd, al the crackling gone...
but for some other... there were still a "popping" noise.... really curious about it... is it possible that it was caused by the dvd quality?

i need to test some more


----------



## d3daiM

Well, sure. It all could be attributed to the quality of dvd. Now, if you were to test the issue on numerous dvds and end up with the same noises, obviously it isn't the dvd heh..


----------



## d3daiM

Damnit, all the sudden, in the middle of gaming, my sounds starts to go scratchy. I dunno what's up, but I know it is the card because I've tried two sets of speakers and they both have scratchy sound..


----------



## USlatin

weird... might be the cables? a loose cap? I have no clue what I'm talking about but keep us informed!


----------



## d3daiM

Well, I am going to try it in another computer and see if I get the same issue :\\

I sure hope my card isn't wrecked.


----------



## aaronman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


done....
for some dvd, al the crackling gone...
but for some other... there were still a "popping" noise.... really curious about it... is it possible that it was caused by the dvd quality?

i need to test some more


Wait, you mean you are hearing the dreaded X-Fi popping sound?


----------



## USlatin

could it be old caps needing replacement?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aaronman*


Wait, you mean you are hearing the dreaded X-Fi popping sound?


What is that? ::snaps to look behind:: 
u scaring me, lol


----------



## d3daiM

Well, I put the X-Fi in my other rig and installed the drivers. When I heard a clear boot up sound, I sighed of relief.

Then I put the card back in my main rig and it works again.

lol?

I'm satisfied..heh


----------



## DJ.BigBear

ah.... no more popping and crackling... what a relief...
i think it was becoz of my PCI slot gettin dirty or sumtin....
after changing PCI slot, clean driver reinstall, codec reinstall... all done... no more issues


----------



## USlatin

was it in the PCI right?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i guess so...
i also cleaned the gold fin on the X-fi... using glass cleaner liquid applied to soft cloth... damn, it was quite dirty! LOL









my suggestion is... try cleaning the PCI slot, the gold fin on X-fi, and try putting it in other PCI slot.
hey, it solved my problem, maybe yours too.


----------



## d3daiM

lol, yeah rofl

confusion ftw


----------



## soloz2

I have used deoxit progold on the contacts of the cards I have modded for people. It cleans and enhances electrical contact. You might want to try to find some


----------



## d3daiM

Hmm, that stuff is pretty neat. I'll have to pick some up at radioshack.


----------



## PiratesRule

Does anyone have a close up pic of the opamp that was removed? I might use my card as a test rat...


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
Hmm, that stuff is pretty neat. I'll have to pick some up at radioshack.

It's cheaper at guitarcenter

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiratesRule* 
Does anyone have a close up pic of the opamp that was removed? I might use my card as a test rat...

just the op-amp that has been removed from the card?


----------



## d3daiM

Dammit! It happened again! I was just listening to some music and then it broke into the scratchy sound...

I pulled out the card and cleaned the contacts with some isopropyl and put the card back in but it still ****ed up...


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i think there's something wrong with the mod. maybe improper solder? or defect caps? try checking...

did u try putting it in other PCI slot?


----------



## d3daiM

Haven't tried another slot, but I can't really, because I don't have enough space to put it in any other slot..

I the only cap I soldered was the blackgate and that looks fine.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but if ALL my speakers are having scratchy noise, then it probably isn't the opamps.

I'm going to try cleaning out my drivers and see what happens..

rep for the help


----------



## USlatin

make sure you do a nice and clean driver install... then if the sound is there I would probable wonder about the mod... but your opamps looked like an A+ soldering job... so the cap, but you say that looks fine... so what about the other caps in your card.... could those be old and needing replacement? Soloz sent me the card with about 20 caps replaced... the gold ones...

What about overheating?!?!? do u have nice airflow around your sound card? You had all those nice HS's on it though... so I bet you made sure of that... try Soloz's recommendation for the gold cleaner stuff from GuitarCenter


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
make sure you do a nice and clean driver install... then if the sound is there I would probable wonder about the mod... but your opamps looked like an A+ soldering job... so the cap, but you say that looks fine... so what about the other caps in your card.... could those be old and needing replacement? Soloz sent me the card with about 20 caps replaced... the gold ones...

What about overheating?!?!? do u have nice airflow around your sound card? You had all those nice HS's on it though... so I bet you made sure of that... try Soloz's recommendation for the gold cleaner stuff from GuitarCenter

I did a clean driver install by going into safe mode and running Driver Cleaner Pro...didn't do anything.

Yeah, my soldering looks fine, and I DID short out those four caps.

I don't have too much airflow around the X-Fi, but it shouldn't really need it. I guess I will try the stuff soloz2 recommended, but man, it doesn't sound like that will really work either.

argh

rep for the help


----------



## USlatin

but then do consider overheating as that would probably show up with crazy stuff happening on your output I bet... what was ur ambient today? any higher than normal?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

tried cleaning your pci slot with a brush or sumthing?

did u use ERS paper? if yes, tried removing it first.


----------



## PiratesRule

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
It's cheaper at guitarcenter

just the op-amp that has been removed from the card?

Yeah...I want to see if it's the same as the one on my card.


----------



## gtpuser

Fck this, too much work.... I'll just keep outputting the sound to my Marantz to decode!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
but then do consider overheating as that would probably show up with crazy stuff happening on your output I bet... what was ur ambient today? any higher than normal?

nope, the past two days it has been cooler than normal..


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
tried cleaning your pci slot with a brush or sumthing?

did u use ERS paper? if yes, tried removing it first.

I will try cleaning the slot somehow..

Removing the ERS paper will be difficult without breaking it, I will save that for last.

rep to you both


----------



## d3daiM

Damn, I still dunno wussup.

I will try it in the other rig again later tonight..

And I won't be able to pick up that canned stuff until tomorrow.

argh, even putting more heatsinks on didn't fix it!!


----------



## USlatin

if it was cooler than normal and no case fans died on you lately then forget about cooling...

clean it well with that stuff while crossing your fingers the whole time, yes I know it is hard but you have to try everything...









so what about proper power supply! power can kill ur sound... is your PSU old? did you add any expansion cards to the puter? did you OC anything lately? Did you just modify ur AntecNeoHE 550W? or did you do it a while back? is ur house/building having electrical problems?

I used to worry about my old arse building's electrical and all I did for that just to feel better was set up like this:

wall > surge protector > power conditioner > puter

the one I have is a Power Werks Power Conditioner 1610, these things are allways used on studios to flatten the signal which is known to have a negative impact on ur sound... if when u tried ur card on the other rig you were still in the same room/house/building then maybe you want to tey and go to a buddy's house instead


----------



## d3daiM

Hmm, I will take that all into consideration. My PSU may be a bit outdated, but it's always beet stable. It's only 550W, but that should be enough for my rig.

Res, I did add a bit of lighting recently and I did OC my graphics card a bit.

I have surge protectors, yes, and my house is wired correctly and is not experiencing electrical problems. Bleh.

My card IS in a hot spot of my case, I don't think it gets any airflow at the top corner of he case heh..

EDIT - OOPS lol


----------



## USlatin

well I think there it is dude... you just OC'ed your Video Card...

also, I hope you just had a typo, cause if you have a 150W PSU that IS your problem, but since ur sig says 550W I bet that's what the real wattage is...

adding the lights shouldn't pull much especially if they are LEDs which I bet they are... but OC'ing a card especially a newer 7950GT with vold mods might translate to a big difference in how much the thing is pulling...

go HERE... add all your components to it but don't add the capasitor aging cause I heard from Chozart or someone like him that that is bull... you may have been at the edge and you just pushed over it...

...also try setting the card to stock speeds and reboot like so to see if it goes away


----------



## d3daiM

hmm, I got 410W..

Obviously, this does not take into account my video card clocks. And also I have two LCDs and a rheobus, so I just selected all the "Other Devices" as a substitute.

I also put down two CCFLs for all my LEDs as a substitute.

I think i am fine, however, I will go ahead and disable my overclock.

rep +

Yeah, I have a 550 watt PSU..LOL, sry bout that


----------



## d3daiM

Disabling the overclock did not work :\\


----------



## USlatin

if you got like 400W and u have 550W then u should be ok with the OC and all but as PSU's get older they do put out a bit less power I heard... howevr if you take that into account u also should take into account that you wouldn't have all ur stuff drawing 100% all the time...

mang that sucks... guess we'll see if it is the connection when u clean it with Soloz's stuff tomorrow...

does anyone have ideas on points to check for voltage and so on to verify if the mod is working on or whatever...?


----------



## d3daiM

Soloz would probably know the best on that information.

*sigh*

Time to put it in the other 'puter.


----------



## shajbot

Sounds like you have messed up your card. Rinse it with soap and water and let it totally dries out, see if it helps. I'm serious.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Sounds like you have messed up your card. Rinse it with soap and water and let it totally dries out, see if it helps. I'm serious.










LOL!

I don't think so...









Hey, he have the same number or reps


----------



## d3daiM

****, I just tried the card in my other rig and I got the same crackles. It is the card.


----------



## USlatin

same room? I know ur electric seems to be perfect, just for the sake of elimination


----------



## d3daiM

Different room. Different temps. Diff case. Everything.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

yep! definitely the card!
i think it's your caps...
well... it does take a while to crackle right? just enough time till th electricity fills the caps...
i think u need to replace an resolder all your caps... this time, use WBT for soldering.


----------



## d3daiM

Yeah, that may be it. I dunno. I am letting the card sit outside the case, colling off. I really dunno if it helps or not. But, yeah, the first time I did this I had taken the card out of the case for a good 1-2 hours while I was doing something before I put it in teh other rig and it worked.

Then, after 12 hours of use, it broke into a crackle again. It's a REALLY bad crackle. Very soft, can't hear much.

I never replaced my caps brother. I don't see any that are leaking or bloated either. Maybe I should just get higher quality ones for good measure.

What is a WBT?

rep +

BTW: I am going to try the card again, it's been sitting out for maybe an hour and a half now.


----------



## d3daiM

didn't work..


----------



## DJ.BigBear

WBT is a soldering tin consisting silver for best audio performance.... and it's ESD ready...
using soldering tin which is not ESD ready CAN KILL your card.

link to WBT:
http://oyaide.com/catalog/products/p-2812.html


----------



## d3daiM

Oh shiii..

lol

Didn't know that. You think they have some a radioshack?....lol

2 more reps to go, thanks!


----------



## DJ.BigBear

you do not need the exact WBT... any soldering tin with ESD ready is ok...


----------



## d3daiM

How do you know if it is ESD ready? My solder really has nothing written on it. I know it is flux solder. lol


----------



## DJ.BigBear

LOL....
usually, a tin used to solder handphone components is ESD ready/anti ESD.
but probably it's better to use WBT


----------



## p_o_s_pc

What does the ERS do? sorry for the n00b question or if it has been asked already.


----------



## d3daiM

hmm, I _think_ I am ok, lol

I will look around at radioshack for anything useful. Thanks!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p_o_s_pc* 
What does the ERS do? sorry for the n00b question or if it has been asked already.

Blocks interference. Greatly improves sound quality.


----------



## USlatin

ERS blocks interference from things like PSU CPU and Video Cards...

D3DAiM... the caps then... DJ seems to think so so why dont u just go and get urself some of these that Soloz used on mine (which used to be his) and start off with the ones he replaced... then if that doesn't do it then do 'em all... sure can't hurt sound!







sounds like the universe says u deserve nothing but the 110% mod

Man! ain't she a 'beaut?


----------



## d3daiM

Damn, that is pretty hehe.

Yeah, I may end up doing that if my progress tomorrow fails. I'd have to get in contact with soloz2 anyway to get him to send me some caps..


----------



## p_o_s_pc

Thanks for the fast reply.


----------



## USlatin

yea bro... I mean that friggin' case 'o yours deserves it all! hehe... great job... love how you modd it all...

p o s pc, sure thing... just make sure to get something between the ERS and the card cause it is conductive... get some black thin foam and sandwich the ERS with it that way it is safe and looks good... if possible do both sides but don't do the front side right on the card cause it need a wee bit of airflow


----------



## d3daiM

Woot, almost have my third flame









And a free overclocked account.

Wouldn't it be great if I ruined my DAC or something?







I'd send it in to Creative for an rma just for laughs to see what they would say.


----------



## Chipp

Hope you kept the original caps!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
yea bro... I mean that friggin' case 'o yours deserves it all! hehe... great job... love how you modd it all...

hehe, thanks, yeah, I thought same.

Modded case, modded power supply, modded video card..modded sound card









Modded speakers?









I posted some updates btw, you mi9ght like to check it out.


----------



## USlatin

check again bro









D3D is one of the nicer members got to get him over the edge for sure


----------



## d3daiM

whoooooo hooo









my third flame









*feels all warm and fuzzy*


----------



## USlatin

what u waitin' for, make a custom title! lol...
probably have to wait till tomorrow or monday though... that's really all I want mine for


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
what u waitin' for, make a custom title! lol...
probably have to wait till tomorrow or monday though... that's really all I want mine for









I'm trying to figure it out. LOL

Seems like I need to notify an admin to get my name to change to black color and to get the custom title and all.

I've been waiting too longggg.









Thank you USlatin, you are a great person to have around here


----------



## USlatin

haha not as good as u and Soloz and DJ... u guys know more than me... I'm just monkey see monkey do still... got a lot going on with work and all but I'll get there... really wish I could get around to doing some modding to my A900 though!


----------



## d3daiM

kay, I PMed Arsenik about the earned account









Quote:


Originally Posted by *USlatin* 
haha not as good as u and Soloz and DJ... u guys know more than me... I'm just monkey see monkey do still... got a lot going on with work and all but I'll get there... really wish I could get around to doing some modding to my A900 though!

Well you are still great in character! That is still something that is much more valuable than immediate impressions on somebody's modding capabilities.

I learned that from my entire convo with you.









..but, if you ever need any tips or pointers on modding, you know who to ask!


----------



## DJ.BigBear

@uslatin
thx for the compliments









well... i've done modding my z5500... but that's another story









i really need to get me some nasty VGA right now.... sold my HD2900XT and using 7300LE (LE stands for Lame Excuses). i'm broke


----------



## d3daiM

heh..

So, why'd you sell your HD2900XT then?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


i'm broke










lol... that should be enough... and embarrasing









since i'm opening a PC retail shop and modding service... i really need the extra cash


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
lol... that should be enough... and embarrasing









since i'm opening a PC retail shop and modding service... i really need the extra cash









Hey! That's a smart plan


----------



## Double Helix

What is in the solder that makes it better? What size is best to use, is 0.8 small enough? Im scared i'll ruin my card :S

Edit: i can get 1mm silver 4% solder or 0.8 2.5% solder. which do i get?

0.8mm 2.5% silver
1mm 4% silver


----------



## d3daiM

Higher the gauge, the better.

More silver content the better.


----------



## shajbot

You might wanna use some flux, it sticks better, but you have to clean afterward. But I have done it, cleaned with water and rinsed, no one gets hurt, the card got better.


----------



## d3daiM

I use flux, yes.

I don't want to rinse the card and tempt oxidation. I don't trust myself THAT much hehe..


----------



## d3daiM

ok, so I went out to radioshack and got some deoxIt Gold and some silver solder.

A $19.70 purchase.

I hope I didn't just squander that money.

brb


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
I use flux, yes.

I don't want to rinse the card and tempt oxidation. I don't trust myself THAT much hehe..

If you used flux, you have to clean it because the left-over flux oxidies itself. And it may be bad for the card.


----------



## d3daiM

Fail.

$20 down the drain


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
If you used flux, you have to clean it because the left-over flux oxidies itself. And it may be bad for the card.









I will take that into consideration with my card revamp.

thanks rep +


----------



## soloz2

make sure you guys are getting rosin core solder. It has flux right in it. If you want to skip the cleaning just buy Keter's no-clean blend


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
make sure you guys are getting rosin core solder. It has flux right in it. If you want to skip the cleaning just buy Keter's no-clean blend

Yes, I was using rosin core before. Now I purchased silver solder and I am going to use flux along with it.

Apparently the deoxit gold DID NOT work. I may have to buy some caps off of you, soloz2. If you have any.

I hope that will fix it...


----------



## d3daiM

Speaking with soloz2 about the situation (he is too helpful







) we finally figured out it was the shorted coupling caps that were causing this issue. I desoldered them and my scratchy sound is all gone.

Now, I am only left with an issue of my sound being too soft. I have my Promedia's set on full blast and it is barely enough for me to hear an instant message come in.

I may end up replacing the caps, they may be damaged.

I'd still call this good news though


----------



## shajbot

Cool. I know those caps are trouble-some.


----------



## d3daiM

Yah, hopefully all that happened when I shorted them out is that I screwed em up or something. I sure hope no other components got permanently messed up because of that.


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Speaking with soloz2 about the situation (he is too helpful







) we finally figured out it was the shorted coupling caps that were causing this issue. I desoldered them and my scratchy sound is all gone.

Now, I am only left with an issue of my sound being too soft. I have my Promedia's set on full blast and it is barely enough for me to hear an instant message come in.

I may end up replacing the caps, they may be damaged.

I'd still call this good news though










dude! good to hear... get the caps replaced... I mean it is supposed to help anyways and you are mr. modificator after all... I mean it is just up ur alley... lol

and till then I can claim to have a better card than yours so just to shut me up you know


----------



## sgtdisturbed47

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cyberspyder*


Nope, here's a complete list:

BRendan


Funny thing is I avoided X-Fi altogether.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


dude! good to hear... get the caps replaced... I mean it is supposed to help anyways and you are mr. modificator after all... I mean it is just up ur alley... lol

and till then I can claim to have a better card than yours so just to shut me up you know










LOL

You can boast all you want..at least, until my shipment comes


----------



## USlatin

yea, well I really can't boast as much as I'd like to cause I didn't do it myself...


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i knew it!... it was the caps all along








ooo yeah... ad8599 and lm4562 does have different characteristics....
ad8599 does have softer and warmer sound yet bold vocal.
while lm4562 gives you fast and bright sound.


----------



## USlatin

hey I said it might be the caps all the way in the beginning too...


----------



## shajbot

Today was the end of my soldering class. I received two certifications (001 and 610D), I are IPC an Specialist!!


----------



## USlatin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
Today was the end of my soldering class. I received two certifications (001 and 610D), I are IPC an Specialist!!









WOOT!

Now make me a solder statue!

We shall expect great things from you from now on heheh...


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


WOOT!

Now make me a solder statue!


i LOLd


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


WOOT!

Now make me a solder statue!

We shall expect great things from you from now on heheh...










LOL

That'd be damn tough.

congrats shajbot, I can't say that about myself lol...


----------



## shajbot

Ahaha thanks, but my soldering skill ain't that good. I just zoomed through the course taking a bunch of tests, not really taking time refine that wrist lol. But it'll get better.


----------



## Double Helix

But you still managed to mod the Xfi? It looks hard :S
How hard is it, on a scale of 1-10?


----------



## d3daiM

I'd give it a 4. The points are actually quite big then some volt mods I have done before. The legs of the opamp are real easy to do with a fine tip on a 15W soldering iron.

It is best to use a heatgun to remove the opamp while wiggling in with a pair of pliers. When the opamp is removed, there will be an imprint of solder where the legs use to be. You can then just slot the new opamp in it's place and then dab it with a tiny bit of more solder to secure it.


----------



## USlatin

hey guys it seems this is a thread where many of you guys graduated to free account holders, ShajBot just joined D3D in tha OCN club


----------



## d3daiM

I am still waiting for my milestone lol.

I will start him one


----------



## USlatin

what's a milestone?


----------



## d3daiM

http://www.overclock.net/member-milestones/


----------



## soloz2

yeah I love having lots of space for all my stuff... right now I have 1435 PM's I clean them out... but i'm too lazy, and I can still fit almost 600 more so meh


----------



## d3daiM

I still need to get my color to change heh.


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D3DAiM* 
I am still waiting for my milestone lol.

I will start him one









http://www.overclock.net/member-mile...ml#post2518146


----------



## d3daiM

!!!


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i've only been to the audio section of this forum








coz i must admit i only have a bit more skill in this area(and it's still not much)...


----------



## d3daiM

Maybe it is time to venture outside?


----------



## USlatin

it is nice outside DJ... go check it out









Anyone heard from Soloz lately? Is he still getting u those caps D3D?


----------



## d3daiM

I am first attempting to get them from Percyaudio so they will be here sooner. He says that if they do not respond to my request, he will somehow manage to relay me some at a better price.

Does not matter much, since I ****ed my motherboard and it is going to the RMA tomorrow LOL.


----------



## USlatin

what? that blows... did u short caps on that too now? lol


----------



## d3daiM

Hah. Nope. I was lapping my waterblocks inside my case like a dumbass.

ROFL


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Hah. Nope. I was lapping my waterblocks inside my case like a dumbass.

ROFL


it's amazing... what boring ppl can do for fun......









i guess i'm goin to venture out tomorrow... one place at a time


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


it's amazing... what boring ppl can do for fun......









i guess i'm goin to venture out tomorrow... one place at a time











I'm a boring person?









I promise I am full o' fun!!


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


I'm a boring person?









I promise I am full o' fun!!


hahahaha... kay then... 
this forum is full of nice and friendly ppl... i like it here...
haven't seen any flame war yet...


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


hahahaha... kay then... 
this forum is full of nice and friendly ppl... i like it here...
haven't seen any flame war yet...










People grows from flame war IMO.


----------



## d3daiM

heh, yes, true.


----------



## USlatin

Well from time to time people still get a little pissy but this forum is above average nice. For sure


----------



## sccr64472

Ok boys and girls, I have my ExtremeMusic on the table with all the modding parts (cap,opamps,solder,solder wick, ES paper,soldering iron). I've procrastinated long enough and am ready to fry my card due to inexperience soldering







The good news is that if my hands aren't steady enough and I mess up my card, it will give me the justification to purchase an X-Fi Elite Pro to mod and try again







Anyways, any last minute tips or tricks? I'm ready just to wing it!


----------



## USlatin

yea baby!!! amp it up SCCR!


----------



## Kluit

Just out of curiosity, I'm not going to get a x-fi soundcard but I was just wondering about something. The opamps you all talk about are from c-media, and I was just wondering if anybody ever tried a burr-brown opamp? Would that work or not?


----------



## soloz2

actually the op-amps are made by national
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html


----------



## Kluit

Oh my mistake, probably confuse it with something else I've got in my head







but anyone tried the burr-brown opamps?


----------



## soloz2

not to my knowledge. some people have tried and liked some AD chips... can't recall which ones though.


----------



## sccr64472

Bah, I'm having a hard time removing the old opamps. Any tricks of the trade or what's a good tool to use to cut them out? If I simply cut them out, I'll use the remaining legs to solder to, so I'm not against cutting them.


----------



## Chipp

Usually a medicine bulb (pic) works well for when you're heating solder to the point where it melts, but then can't get it out/away from the part you're taking out. I don't know if thats the specific issue you're having.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chipp*


Usually a medicine bulb (pic) works well for when you're heating solder to the point where it melts, but then can't get it out/away from the part you're taking out. I don't know if thats the specific issue you're having.


Thanks Chipp, but I think I've set my sights on simply cutting the damn things







I just can't think of the perfect product to cut with


----------



## Chipp

I know I've got a pair of very tiny snips that I've used on vintage gear that I needed something removed in, can't think for the life of me what they'd be called though. I'll take a look at tool store websites.


----------



## Qwerty_uiop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chosen* 
I would LOVE to do this. Unfortunately I dont have so called "surgon hands".

I could do the cap, I dunno about the opamp though.

I do. I LOOOVE to solder stuff. In fact, I might just do this to a DIAMONDTEK XtremeSound 7.1 for my dad when it comes in the mail. Its a cheap $50 card, on sale for $20 on newegg (big price drop). I can replace the OpAmp and corresponding Capacitors; it seems simple enough. of course i would not follow this guide, but once i get a good detailed look at that PCB i'll know what to do.

and what should we use for shielding between ERS paper and back of PCB? Electrical tape work? <dont laugh plz>









oh and i also have these 'snip' things chipp -- very handy. its like a plier handles but a very thin almost tweezer like scizzor blade.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sccr64472* 
Thanks Chipp, but I think I've set my sights on simply cutting the damn things







I just can't think of the perfect product to cut with









http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes

that'll work for you. a small needle nose pliers with a couple cutters.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qwerty_uiop* 
I do. I LOOOVE to solder stuff. In fact, I might just do this to a DIAMONDTEK XtremeSound 7.1 for my dad when it comes in the mail. Its a cheap $50 card, on sale for $20 on newegg (big price drop). I can replace the OpAmp and corresponding Capacitors; it seems simple enough. of course i would not follow this guide, but once i get a good detailed look at that PCB i'll know what to do.

and what should we use for shielding between ERS paper and back of PCB? Electrical tape work? <dont laugh plz>









oh and i also have these 'snip' things chipp -- very handy. its like a plier handles but a very thin almost tweezer like scizzor blade.

go to your local craft store and pick up some foam sheets.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


Bah, I'm having a hard time removing the old opamps. Any tricks of the trade or what's a good tool to use to cut them out? If I simply cut them out, I'll use the remaining legs to solder to, so I'm not against cutting them.


Use a heatgun on the opamp on a low setting, while wiggling the opamp left and right with a pair of pliers. Soon enough, the opamp will just pop right off when the solder has softened.


----------



## Double Helix

a heatgun? a little soldering one or a full on one?

Kapow?


----------



## soloz2

a heat gun found at your local crafts store will work. won't be industrial grade, but it'll last you a while. Look in the embossing section


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Double Helix*


a heatgun? a little soldering one or a full on one?

Kapow?


Yup, just like that. It sure doesn't need to be fancy, mine was like $10. Maybe even a hairdryer might do the trick lol.


----------



## Double Helix

I thought that would be too hot and damage the parts?


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Double Helix*


I thought that would be too hot and damage the parts?


Believe me, the card will be HOT. The entire thing will get like 200F and stay that way for 5 minutes.

It won't wreck anything though, as long as you stop when you can get the opamp to wiggle and you focus the heat over the opamps as best as you can.

Do it one at a time, letting the card cool off each time.


----------



## USlatin

so i had a fieldtrip last night prepping my MoBo for the Q6600 with all the extra cooling I had purchased and had been dieing to install.... I decided i would rig something for the X-Fi too.... not done but check her out... it is a worn in progress

I slapped a 4000 rpm 40mm fan on it but the base of it covers so much of the chip that i am not sure if I should just leave it off...


----------



## soloz2

It might be a better idea to offset that fan a little so it's not so close to the card. there is potential to pick up interference from the fan moter. But the only way to find out is to try


----------



## EAT

Absolutely amazed soloz2 at all the work you've put into this thread!! Was wondering if you've heard of any opamps that compete with the lm4562? I have had a really hard time getting more than 3 (would like 4 for 5.1). Also have you guys decided for sure that the xtremegamer fps is identical to the fatal1ty fps? Has anybody done a count of the caps to change out on those cards?


----------



## soloz2

the xtremegamer can't be modded. the op-amp pinout is not standard... well if you wanted to be creative you could mod it...

and digikey sells the op-amps for like $5 something each plus shipping. I normally order at least 10 at a time


----------



## EAT

Quote:

well if you wanted to be creative you could mod it...
Any ideas??.....


----------



## EAT

I bet your keeping that to yourself. How bout which of the newer x-fi cards are? I guess I could always rma this one.


----------



## EAT

I was just rereading the beginning of this thread and it mentions the fatality fps as one that could be modded. I was under the impression that xtreme gamer fps was the same card without the breakout I/O?


----------



## soloz2

well all the cards save for the audio and elite are essentially the same. for some reason Creative used non standard SOIC op-amps on some of the cards and not the others.


----------



## EAT

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/cre...r_fatal1ty_pro

Max pc feels that way, no contesting you at all soloz2 just trying to get to the bottom of it. Again I appreciate all your help and wisdom in this area.


----------



## EAT

could the opamp pins be altered?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EAT* 
could the opamp pins be altered?

it's the same op-amp just a different package. the op-amps are tiny rectangles and normally the pins are on the 2 longer sides, but on the gamer they are on the two shorter sides. I have not looked at the pinout to see if you could manage to rotate a standard SOIC package chip into place, but I think others have reported that it doesn't work.

Like I said, you've got to be creative about it, but I'm sure it's possible. No, I haven't done it and I don't plan to attempt it either.


----------



## sccr64472

Well, I've removed all 5 opamps, and the old capacitor. I've soldered 1 of the new opamps in and also the larger capacitor. It took 4 attempts to successfully solder 8 legs. On the previous 3 attempts, at some point I got solder to overlap and short 2 legs together. If this happens again, does anyone have an easier solution other than removing the entire opamp and starting over? Talk about a PITA!!


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


Well, I've removed all 5 opamps, and the old capacitor. I've soldered 1 of the new opamps in and also the larger capacitor. It took 4 attempts to successfully solder 8 legs. On the previous 3 attempts, at some point I got solder to overlap and short 2 legs together. If this happens again, does anyone have an easier solution other than removing the entire opamp and starting over? Talk about a PITA!!


Jeeze, you are having a tough time man. That never happened once to me.

Ar you using a fine tip soldering iron? You can file it it make it finer. Really, you need it pretty fine to solder such small legs.

Anyway, you could use a little spring solder sucker that you can get from radioshack to suck the excess solder. They are kind of hard to use on those small points. Or you could use a copper solder braid to remove the solder, I don't have much luck with those either.

Really, the best way would be to just remove it again with a heatgun and get rid of all the solder when you can get a close look at it.

Frankly, I am surprised that nothing is broken as a result of those shorted legs.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


Well, I've removed all 5 opamps, and the old capacitor. I've soldered 1 of the new opamps in and also the larger capacitor. It took 4 attempts to successfully solder 8 legs. On the previous 3 attempts, at some point I got solder to overlap and short 2 legs together. If this happens again, does anyone have an easier solution other than removing the entire opamp and starting over? Talk about a PITA!!


with a little practice you can use the soler tip just like a paint brush to wipe away excess solder.

Clean your tip (wet sponge works well, or Hakko makes a nice alternative.
put the flat (blade) part of the tip against the op-amp legs
start near the op-amp and just wipe excess solder away.

It might take a couple runs, but it'll clean up. If you have way too much then desoldering braid will help, but I'm too impatient for that and use a solder sucker instead. $20 will get you a nice one. (Yeah I know that many people here have irons that cost less... but trust me it's well worth it, but then again so is the Hakko 936 soldering station that is a permanent fixture on my desk)


----------



## d3daiM

Yeah, usually that is what I do. Clean your iron off so it is "dry" and doesn't have any solder on it.

Then run your iron over the legs of the opamp and pick up the solder. Then, wipe it off on something metal to remove all the solder.

Repeat.


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Frankly, I am surprised that nothing is broken as a result of those shorted legs.










Why would there be? There hasn't been any voltage applied to anything, so shorting 2 of the legs shouldn't be a big deal. What I am worried about is the fact that when I removed 2 of the old opamps, the metal connection on a total of 3 legs came off of the board with the opamp. I'm hoping I can get solder to stick to the board and I'll be fine, but who knows.

Edit: To clarify, the opamp legs didn't come off, but the solder pad underneath where the legs attach to the sound card.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sccr64472* 
Why would there be? There hasn't been any voltage applied to anything, so shorting 2 of the legs shouldn't be a big deal. What I am worried about is the fact that when I removed 2 of the old opamps, the metal connection on a total of 3 legs came off of the board with the opamp. I'm hoping I can get solder to stick to the board and I'll be fine, but who knows.

Edit: To clarify, the opamp legs didn't come off, but the solder pad underneath where the legs attach to the sound card.

Oh, haha. I thought you had actually tried the card with the shorted legs. Sorry,









Anyway, I am sorry to hear about these solder pads coming off. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, usually, in these circumstances, the solder pad cannot be reapplied to the card with working contact. Usually, these solder pads are imbedded in the PCB.

On two seperate occasions I hat this same unfortunate event happen to me while soldering and I had ruined the item I was working on.

Maybe you will have better luck than I and it may still work. Good luck to you!


----------



## sccr64472

Quote:



Originally Posted by *D3DAiM*


Oh, haha. I thought you had actually tried the card with the shorted legs. Sorry,









Anyway, I am sorry to hear about these solder pads coming off. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, usually, in these circumstances, the solder pad cannot be reapplied to the card with working contact. Usually, these solder pads are imbedded in the PCB.

On two seperate occasions I hat this same unfortunate event happen to me while soldering and I had ruined the item I was working on.

Maybe you will have better luck than I and it may still work. Good luck to you!


I wouldn't doubt if the card is damaged, but I'm going to try to fill the pit with conductive window defroster repair fluid and then attempt to resolder the opamp. If it doesn't work on the first try, I'm going to buy a new sound card. I kind of wanted to get an Elite Pro anyways, so we'll see


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sccr64472*


I wouldn't doubt if the card is damaged, but I'm going to try to fill the pit with conductive window defroster repair fluid and then attempt to resolder the opamp. If it doesn't work on the first try, I'm going to buy a new sound card. I kind of wanted to get an Elite Pro anyways, so we'll see










Good luck to you! I'd like to hear how this eventuates.


----------



## kennymester

I wish I could mod mine.







I guess I have to wait for the Auzentech.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

oo yeah...
i was wondering... does changing opamp will make any differences in digital?

anyone tried changing LM4562 to AD8599?
now i found LM4562 to be abit too bright or too sharp for my ears...


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear* 
oo yeah...
i was wondering... does changing opamp will make any differences in digital?

hmmm, that's an interesting question..

soloz2?


----------



## USlatin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


It might be a better idea to offset that fan a little so it's not so close to the card. there is potential to pick up interference from the fan moter. But the only way to find out is to try


I don't understand what you mean... the only way is to mount it mid air then and well it is a fan so I guess it _could_ fly but my fan ain't dat cool... hehe

hummm.... maybe I'll rig something...

but since it would be hard to make it look I'll just listen for noise which I have not heard yet.


----------



## EAT

Anybody heard of a good site (other than wiki) that has the anatomy of a opamp? I am looking to modify the pins on the lm4562 to work on xtremegamer fps. If i get it worked out ill post my fix.


----------



## EAT

ok nevermind upon further research thats a dumb question, how easy is it to bend these pins (i have opamps on order but none around) and what are pins on chips maid of anyways?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


oo yeah...
i was wondering... does changing opamp will make any differences in digital?

anyone tried changing LM4562 to AD8599?
now i found LM4562 to be abit too bright or too sharp for my ears...


changing the op-amp will not effect the digital output at all.

I have not tried that op-amp, but do a search on the head-fi thread I think a couple people have

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


I don't understand what you mean... the only way is to mount it mid air then and well it is a fan so I guess it _could_ fly but my fan ain't dat cool... hehe

hummm.... maybe I'll rig something...

but since it would be hard to make it look I'll just listen for noise which I have not heard yet.


I only meant that it would be best if the fan was not mounted to the card. It'll give off RF, and vibrations. The ideal solution would be to have the fan mounted somewhere several inches away and then just funnel some of the air flow over the card

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EAT*


ok nevermind upon further research thats a dumb question, how easy is it to bend these pins (i have opamps on order but none around) and what are pins on chips maid of anyways?


probably tin like most component leads


----------



## USlatin

yea but it is on a nice little chunk of foam... I haven't played enough audio to know for sure since I've been in the middle of OC'ing my Q6600 but I think it isn't getting noticeable interference...

does vibration have a bad effect too?


----------



## sven123

what is the diffrence between a music edi with hynix or samsung chip wich is better??


----------



## EAT

Has anybody here done some interesting things to get a nonstandard chip to fit? Or maybe had one come in seriously bent and get it to work?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


yea but it is on a nice little chunk of foam... I haven't played enough audio to know for sure since I've been in the middle of OC'ing my Q6600 but I think it isn't getting noticeable interference...

does vibration have a bad effect too?


well it certainly won't help

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sven123*


what is the diffrence between a music edi with hynix or samsung chip wich is better??


those are just brands of the X-RAM IC used. has no effect since XRAM is not used unless games are specifically coded to use it

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EAT*


Has anybody here done some interesting things to get a nonstandard chip to fit? Or maybe had one come in seriously bent and get it to work?


umm... not sure exactly what you're talking about unless your op-amps came damaged. post a pic


----------



## EAT

Quote:



umm... not sure exactly what you're talking about unless your op-amps came damaged.


Not me was wondering if anybody had recieved any damaged that they got to work after some bending. Or if anyone had put a chip on a board it wasnt made to take.


----------



## Babel

Anyone found out if the "X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional" is one of the good ones or bad ones yet? It's somewhat cheaper than the other models. I don't want to mod the board so.

- Babel.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Babel*


Anyone found out if the "X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional" is one of the good ones or bad ones yet? It's somewhat cheaper than the other models. I don't want to mod the board so.

- Babel.


any x-fi beside Xtreme Audio is okay.


----------



## Babel

You truly sure about this?

Quote:



THE X-FI CARDS THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED:
-X-Fi XtremeAudio
-X-Fi XtremeGamer
-Any of the low-profile X-Fis

THE GOOD ONES TO GET:
X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic (best value)

ONES I AM UNSURE about:
X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
This is one of the new ones. The other new ones are the XtremeAudio and XtremeGamer, which are both low profile. The low profile models do not support digital out (not easily, anyway), and they use lower quality components. The XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series is also new, but it is not low profile. If it is based on the same model as the good ones, it would be OK, but I don't know if it is. So it would be best to just avoid it.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

@babel
how old is that post?
it's been closely observed, tested and proven already

i wouldn't dare to recommend u a beefed up cards.


----------



## Babel

Ah, you're right. I didn't look at the date of the post. Thanks. +rep

- Babel.


----------



## rx7speed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Babel*


Anyone found out if the "X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional" is one of the good ones or bad ones yet? It's somewhat cheaper than the other models. I don't want to mod the board so.

- Babel.


I tried this mod and busted my platinum which is still laying around and I just bought the gamer fatality. I know some parts of the PCB are different already between the two and the writing on the IC's looks different but I was in bad light and I wanted to play with my new speakers and sound card so I haven't pulled teh numbers yet. when I get home today I can take a peak and see if they are using the same op-amps or not which if they are it should be the same swap I hope.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rx7speed*


I tried this mod and busted my platinum which is still laying around and I just bought the gamer fatality. I know some parts of the PCB are different already between the two and the writing on the IC's looks different but I was in bad light and I wanted to play with my new speakers and sound card so I haven't pulled teh numbers yet. when I get home today I can take a peak and see if they are using the same op-amps or not which if they are it should be the same swap I hope.


Sounds good.

How do you know it is busted? You think it may be repairable? I may be interested..


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i have been informed by my Blackgate dealer that it has been stopped from production.

i've heard this rumor for over than 2 years now...
hope it's just a marketing tactic to make ppl stock blackgate.


----------



## repoman

Hmm.. so I read through the first 10 or so pages of this thread and found that soloz2 was modding these cards, I PMd him and found that he won't do it anymore. He suggested an electronics repair shop if I tell them exactly what to do, but I trust people here more.

Is anyone else willing to do it (paid of course







) ? Thanks


----------



## EAT

I am practicing on a few right now untill I perfect it and then I will be offering my services for those interested. I have had the x-fi xtreme gamer and just had the opamps modded to fit the different orientation. What do you guys think a fair price to ask is (plus shipping of course)?


----------



## rx7speed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3daiM*


Sounds good.

How do you know it is busted? You think it may be repairable? I may be interested..


ended up ripping the solder pads right off the pcb and broke the traces. if you knew what you are doing you could prolly fix it but I'm not that good. hell I couldn't even desolder right









I ended up sleeping last night about 13 hours straight so I won't be able to look at the card yet till I get home from work today


----------



## d3daiM

Aw man, you broke the solder pads off? Bummer..


----------



## soloz2

you can probably follow the trace and fix it


----------



## d3daiM

I wouldn't know how to do such a thing, personally..


----------



## rx7speed

I see the traces I'm just not sure how to get them to stick and make contact without bringing two different traces together and causing it to short out.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rx7speed* 
I see the traces I'm just not sure how to get them to stick and make contact without bringing two different traces together and causing it to short out.

trace it to the leg of the component it connects to, then take a small length of wire and just connect the two points. That's all PCB traces are... they connect 2 or more points. In the right order mind you


----------



## rx7speed

never though of that, thought it makes sense as most of what I have done with solderi ng is point to point anyway. then guess some handy electrical tape can hold the ic in place


----------



## shajbot

I can't imagine doing such task under circumstance that otherwise would require a microscope!


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rx7speed*


never though of that, thought it makes sense as most of what I have done with solderi ng is point to point anyway. then guess some handy electrical tape can hold the ic in place


well as long as the other solder pads are there they would hold the chip in place. If need be you could hot glue it


----------



## d3daiM

It could work..


----------



## Sparhawk

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html
Is this the proper chip? I'm thinking I may try doing this to my X-FI Fatality so i'm just collecting and pricing materials, parts etc...


----------



## d3daiM

Nope, this one.

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html


----------



## p_o_s_pc

d3daiM did you ever get your card working right?Sorry if you post it already i haven't been here much.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *p_o_s_pc*


d3daiM did you ever get your card working right?Sorry if you post it already i haven't been here much.


Actually, no..lol

But I finally am ordering the capacitors from soloz2 today









I have intention to keep you all updated..no worry.

Just make sure you guys don't short those caps..not a good idea!


----------



## d3daiM

Aww man, this sucks..

I just got done with all the replacing of those caps and my sound STILL is quiet as ****..


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *d3daiM* 
Actually, no..lol

But I finally am ordering the capacitors from soloz2 today









I have intention to keep you all updated..no worry.

Just make sure you guys don't short those caps..not a good idea!

Wow sorry and thanks for head-up about shorting the caps. I was just this close / / to carry out such task. 0_0


----------



## d3daiM

x.x

Welcome....


----------



## Oldboy

now what is so wrong with the Xtremegamer that i have? why is it so bad, or it says it is in the 2nd post here...


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oldboy* 
now what is so wrong with the Xtremegamer that i have? why is it so bad, or it says it is in the 2nd post here...

It's like the lower end version. Quality isn't as good.


----------



## Oldboy

Compared to what i heard before, i'm very satisfied.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oldboy* 
Compared to what i heard before, i'm very satisfied.

Then you are satisfied, and that is good


----------



## d3daiM

Damn, so if I cannot find a suitable solution to this issue I am just ganna blow my money on the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude..

I feel like all my modding will have gone to waste..









All I could really carry over may be the blackgate and the ERS paper.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Oldboy*


now what is so wrong with the Xtremegamer that i have? why is it so bad, or it says it is in the 2nd post here...


op-amps are different and not suitable for the mod. it has been discussed here in length before.

wow, I'm sorry to hear that d3d, not sure what else to tell you


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


wow, I'm sorry to hear that d3d, not sure what else to tell you










damn..

soloz2, you're like my last hope lol..


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i got my Xtreme Music sold to a persistent customer.
so i just bought myself a new Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty and mod it straight away.
performs just the same, i think i really have to try the AD8599 tho.


----------



## shajbot

This mod is still working great on mine.

A comment on my sound system, for a moment I thought I was listening to the real artist, my heart nearly skipped, it's that dramatic







. Product of Xtrememusic Opamps moded, Progamer G500 5.1, Audio Creation Mode (with Crystallizer and EAX enabled), Foobar (with a couple sound enhancing plugins).


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
This mod is still working great on mine.

A comment on my sound system, for a moment I thought I was listening to the real artist, my heart nearly skipped, it's that dramatic







. Product of Xtrememusic Opamps moded, Progamer G500 5.1, Audio Creation Mode (with Crystallizer and EAX enabled), Foobar (with a couple sound enhancing plugins).

Glad to hear you enjoying yourself!


----------



## Safetydan

Just got my extremeMusic modded, I am loving it!







The improvement was very noticeable even just after it was done, I'm burning it in now and enjoying it very much.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i really need ERS paper now... the sound is too detailed and bright...


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Safetydan*


Just got my extremeMusic modded, I am loving it!







The improvement was very noticeable even just after it was done, I'm burning it in now and enjoying it very much.


Another successful mod! Good job!!


----------



## Safetydan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


i really need ERS paper now... the sound is too detailed and bright...


Yeah, I had some ERS in there for a while before I got my soldering wizard friend to mod the card. It helped out on its own too









Report after burn in on the mod:
The sound of the card is much mellower and what I can only describe as more natural. Very much worth the few bucks for the mats and bribing your friendly local EE major to do the soldering!

Thanks d3daiM btw


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Safetydan*


Very much worth the few bucks for the mats and bribing your friendly local EE major to do the soldering!


I'm a CE/EE graduate... and my now defunct X-fi is proof of my soldering failure.









Duckie FTL.


----------



## Safetydan

Ouch, that's a bummer... The guy who did mine was soldering stuff before he got ever got into EE and I'd trust him to solder pretty much anything after seeing some of the stuff he's done just for fun, crazy guy that one.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Safetydan*


Ouch, that's a bummer... The guy who did mine was soldering stuff before he got ever got into EE and I'd trust him to solder pretty much anything after seeing some of the stuff he's done just for fun, crazy guy that one.


Does he want to do mine?


----------



## Safetydan

I'm sure he would be happy to, he's a nice guy. If you're serious PM me


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:

The LM4562 will eventually be renamed to the LME4986. Just giving you guys a heads up.
Since National Semiconductor only allows orders of 3 for one part.... can I just use LM4562MA and then some LME49860MA?


----------



## soloz2

you'd have to read the spec sheets to make sure it is a suitable replacement. I'd say to just spend the $15 or so to buy another 2. Digikey sells them for between $5-6ea, I think they have a minimum order of $25 though. If you're having trouble I probably have 2 I could send you


----------



## roughnick

Cool find. Really useful to know. Might give it a go myself sometime. REP


----------



## d3daiM

Cool man.

Tell us how it goes.


----------



## r4a2m0o

What are the specs on the 16 nichicon caps on the xtrememusic?

Also, does anybody have a single extra national opamp they could ship me? Thanks.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Nichicon Gold 22uF 16V


----------



## soloz2

the original caps are 22uf 16v jamicons.

I used Nichicon FG Audio grade 22uf 25v caps. You might see better sonics with a bit more of a boutique part there, but then you have to deal with space concerns and will probably run into a 5-10x increase in parts.
The Nichicon FG's fit tight, but without any additional mods or having to be creative. Just be careful and make sure all the caps are straight and you'll be fine.
USLatin has his card decked out with these caps


----------



## DJ.BigBear

nah, if it's to tight to put infront, just solder some of tha caps on the back of the board.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DJ.BigBear*


nah, if it's to tight to put infront, just solder some of tha caps on the back of the board.


ERS paper my friend.

Like I said there are likely better options, but then you have to be creative and you won't be able to do the full mod.


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


ERS paper my friend.

Like I said there are likely better options, but then you have to be creative and you won't be able to do the full mod.


oh... i made my own faraday cage to put ers paper rather than applying it directly to my X-FI








so, no worries in that too mate


----------



## AMD2600

You get these Op-Amps through Digi-Key for $5.38 a piece.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=LM4562MA-ND

Capacitors also available. Shielding supplies (If you don't want to make your own). It looks like the ones that Creative used are are just general purpose Digi-key has them also.

If you don't want to replace the chips and caps (The caps I think are just used to clean the supply voltages to the chips). A good start would be the shield. Followed by the Chips.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD2600*


You get these Op-Amps through Digi-Key for $5.38 a piece.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=LM4562MA-ND

Capacitors also available. Shielding supplies (If you don't want to make your own). It looks like the ones that Creative used are are just general purpose Digi-key has them also.

If you don't want to replace the chips and caps (The caps I think are just used to clean the supply voltages to the chips). A good start would be the shield. Followed by the Chips.


you'll get the most improvement from the op-amps.

btw, anyone who wants op-amps and blackgates but doesn't want to pay extra for not meeting the minimum requirements send me a PM I've got a bunch.


----------



## AMD2600

The OP wasn't talking about the supply voltages to the op-amps, he was talking about replacing the Capacitor to the supply voltage of the card itself. I'll keep you in mind Soloz2.


----------



## d3daiM

So, I've got the Auzentech prelude finally, and I want to replace the power filter capacitor with my BlackGate. Which one am I looking at here?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3daiM*


So, I've got the Auzentech prelude finally, and I want to replace the power filter capacitor with my BlackGate. Which one am I looking at here?


post pics... I don't feel like taking mine out to look at it.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
post pics... I don't feel like taking mine out to look at it.

Blah ok


----------



## d3daiM

I am guessing its that biggest cap in the bottom right...


----------



## DJ.BigBear

that would be my guess too


----------



## soloz2

I believe it's the larger cap on the bottom right


----------



## d3daiM

It's a surface mounted cap..doesn't pass through card.

Easy.









I'll tell you how i goes when I decide to mod (soon).


----------



## term3

Hi, Im also going to mod my X-Fi , but theres a slight problem with Nichicon FG 25V 22microF capacitors, because I just cant find to them in any internet shop







, so I would be really grateful if someone could could link me to the exact page where its available







. Link of similar audio grade capacitors that are 25V 22microF of some other brand would also be great


----------



## soloz2

you can get them from percyaudio

I'm not sure if he ships worldwide, I've got one set left if he doesn't


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Try Oscon caps... they're better.


----------



## biatchi

Are you still modding these soloz2? I want to do mine but doubt i would find the parts over here


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *biatchi*


Are you still modding these soloz2? I want to do mine but doubt i would find the parts over here










nope, I have some parts I can hook you up with though


----------



## biatchi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
nope, I have some parts I can hook you up with though

I have to go out in a min but i will pm you when i get back or tommorow.


----------



## d3daiM

My Auzentech Prelude with Blackgate power cap and ERS paper w/ black foam underneath.


----------



## soloz2

how is the board on the Auzen? better quality then creative I presume?


----------



## Mos3s

Soloz2 i sent you a pm..i'm looking for the parts for this mod


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mos3s* 
Soloz2 i sent you a pm..i'm looking for the parts for this mod









I think you actually sent me an email, and I already responded


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


how is the board on the Auzen? better quality then creative I presume?


It's about the same quality of a modded Creative with less feedback and interference noise. Most likely the result of the higher quality components used.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3daiM*


It's about the same quality of a modded Creative with less feedback and interference noise. Most likely the result of the higher quality components used.










oh yeah, I knew that. I was asking about the quality of the pcb itself that Auzen used. The boards that creative uses are pretty crappy. You've gotta heat up the card quite a bit to get the power cap out and I accidentally melted one of the cards. Not really my fault because the ground plane on the board melted before the solder did... but still now I have a crappy coaster.


----------



## JoeUbi

From the looks of this, the mod will only affect analog output? It shouldn't affect the quality of a digital signal through Coax or Optical?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JoeUbi*


From the looks of this, the mod will only affect analog output? It shouldn't affect the quality of a digital signal through Coax or Optical?


that is correct for the most part, although the power cap mod would help the digital output as well


----------



## The Pook

Links link to wrong places now. :\\

I assume it's a no-go on XtremeGamers though?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Pook* 
Links link to wrong places now. :

I assume it's a no-go on XtremeGamers though?

Parts of it could be done. It's not a standard OP amp design, but you could still do power caps and ERS paper.

I'll get the correct link... Head-fi's downtime/backup restoration caused a lot of links to go awry.


----------



## Chipp

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ho...no-56k-226975/


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
oh yeah, I knew that. I was asking about the quality of the pcb itself that Auzen used. The boards that creative uses are pretty crappy. You've gotta heat up the card quite a bit to get the power cap out and I accidentally melted one of the cards. Not really my fault because the ground plane on the board melted before the solder did... but still now I have a crappy coaster.

Oh yeah, everything on the PCB seemed a lot better made...you can tell from the pics I uploaded.

The power cap this time is a surface mount, it made it a lot easir to remove and solder on a new one.


----------



## soloz2

hmm... I guess I didn't really look at the board that closely. Too bad, especially since I just sold my last blackgate. oh well.


----------



## Sparhawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
hmm... I guess I didn't really look at the board that closely. Too bad, especially since I just sold my last blackgate. oh well.

Should I order a blackgate or is there something better you would recommend?

Looks like I can get 4 x LM4562MA as samples

Not sure if the ERS paper is really necessary? (kinda unsightly in a windowed case).


----------



## DJ.BigBear

Blackgates, Panasonic, Oscon, Nichicon, Elna.... those are great caps.

i use combination of opamps on my x-fi
AD8599
LM4562
LM4562
AD8066


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sparhawk* 
Should I order a blackgate or is there something better you would recommend?

Looks like I can get 4 x LM4562MA as samples

Not sure if the ERS paper is really necessary? (kinda unsightly in a windowed case).

not at all if you do it right









oh, and if you don't want to spend almost $10 on a single cap Panasonic FM series caps are some of the best power caps you can get.


----------



## cyberspyder

Sry guys, I'll fix the links. Head-Fi's down-time affected alot of things.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I read about 10 pages but I still dont understand...

what does this change?
Is it hard to sodder?
I have an Xtreme Fatal1ty Pro Gamer or w/e - is this applicable?


----------



## Chipp

If you've never soldered before, it's not difficult, but I would not recommend starting on a piece of expensive (I/E working) hardware.

As far as changes, do you mean physical changes to the board or changes in sound?


----------



## cyberspyder

It improves the sound of your X-Fi.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


I read about 10 pages but I still dont understand...

what does this change?
Is it hard to sodder?
I have an Xtreme Fatal1ty Pro Gamer or w/e - is this applicable?


no offense but if you read 10 pages and don't understand then this mod is not for you. If you want better sound buy an Auzen X-Fi Prelude


----------



## Sparhawk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


not at all if you do it right









oh, and if you don't want to spend almost $10 on a single cap Panasonic FM series caps are some of the best power caps you can get.


I've been looking and its pretty difficult to get the ERS paper...(most retailers i found only ship in the US) I think I may just hold off until I hear the difference from the Cap (probably the panasonic one) and the opamps which i'll be ordering asap.

...I'm sick of my PC not sounding as good as my Panasonic Stereo that I got for about the same price as the soundcard...grrr


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cyberspyder*


It improves the sound of your X-Fi.


but by how much? To what extent? What does this mod effect? Bass, range, ect.?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


but by how much? To what extent? What does this mod effect? Bass, range, ect.?


just read what people have said. It improves the sound by quite a bit.


----------



## Sparhawk

I'm looking at getting some new soldering equipment for this task (stuff I have is old and very imprecise)
1. Should I get solder paste or just use conventional solder?
2. Is a relatively cheap soldering iron (radioshack) going to do the trick or will I have to opt for a more expensive temperature controlled model?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

this mod will make your X-Fi sound totally different from default, much much better.

get WBT soldering tin.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sparhawk* 
I'm looking at getting some new soldering equipment for this task (stuff I have is old and very imprecise)
1. Should I get solder paste or just use conventional solder?
2. Is a relatively cheap soldering iron (radioshack) going to do the trick or will I have to opt for a more expensive temperature controlled model?

1. no paste, get rosen core solder.
2. get a hakko dash for $20


----------



## d3daiM

Well I use a 15W radioshack soldering iron with a filed tip to do my work..it's fine.


----------



## generalpetres

i currently have a x-fi platnum but want to either upgrade the current card or buy the auxentech for the dolby digital. which way would be the best bet for gaming mostly with my music and frequent movie watching.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *generalpetres*


i currently have a x-fi platnum but want to either upgrade the current card or buy the auxentech for the dolby digital. which way would be the best bet for gaming mostly with my music and frequent movie watching.


Well, the Auzentech is definitely better sound quality all around. I've heard slight improvements in games and bigger improvements in Music and DVD quality movies.

However, it is costlier...


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I was wondering....

anyone willing to do this for me? ^_^
Throw me a PM if interested.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


I was wondering....

anyone willing to do this for me? ^_^
Throw me a PM if interested.


Do what?

Buy an Auzentech Prelude for you?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3daiM*


Do what?

Buy an Auzentech Prelude for you?










No XD

the mod. I dont have the guts to solder my own card. I am, what would you said, an audiophile and this sound improvement sounds impressive.


----------



## d3daiM

Hmmm...

I did it with my last card and I had no problem. Never did it for anybody else.

I suppose I am concerned about the liability of breaking something...I don't know if the money would be worth it either heh.


----------



## Sparhawk

Hopefully I'll be able to do this without messing up my card...

I'm getting a friend to pick up solder supplies for me at near cost from RadioShack so the $10 spool of solder becomes like $2. lol yeah i'm that cheap

My main question here is which type of solder should I use?

I've got:
"Standard Rosin Core Solder" (60/40) .8mm or .032"
and i'm getting my friend to pick up some:
"High-Tech Rosin Core Silver Bearing Solder" (62/36/02) .6mm or .022"

And d3daiM mentioned something about a filed tip? would filing a tip wreck the finish or would you just re tin it after filing?


----------



## Zulli85

Anyone out there that can do this for some of us that lack soldering experience? I'd love to have this mod but don't dare try to undertake it myself.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sparhawk*


Hopefully I'll be able to do this without messing up my card...

I'm getting a friend to pick up solder supplies for me at near cost from RadioShack so the $10 spool of solder becomes like $2. lol yeah i'm that cheap

My main question here is which type of solder should I use?

I've got:
"Standard Rosin Core Solder" (60/40) .8mm or .032"
and i'm getting my friend to pick up some:
"High-Tech Rosin Core Silver Bearing Solder" (62/36/02) .6mm or .022"

And d3daiM mentioned something about a filed tip? would filing a tip wreck the finish or would you just re tin it after filing?


Yeah good luck! That's about all it should cost









Yeah, I file the tip so it is smaller and is easier to work with..not TOO necessary, but I do make sure to apply some tinner and tip cleaner on a regular basis.


----------



## generalpetres

im really thinking about just giving my bro the platnum and getting teh auzen lately for some reason in css ill be in battle and not to loud and when some one starts talking on the mic my sound gets really scratchy and starts cutting out and will go out for like 4 sec then come back. would this be a driver issue cause i havent check for new updates for like 2 weeks







but its really getting annoying.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sparhawk*


Hopefully I'll be able to do this without messing up my card...

I'm getting a friend to pick up solder supplies for me at near cost from RadioShack so the $10 spool of solder becomes like $2. lol yeah i'm that cheap

My main question here is which type of solder should I use?

I've got:
"Standard Rosin Core Solder" (60/40) .8mm or .032"
and i'm getting my friend to pick up some:
"High-Tech Rosin Core Silver Bearing Solder" (62/36/02) .6mm or .022"

And d3daiM mentioned something about a filed tip? would filing a tip wreck the finish or would you just re tin it after filing?


it's nice to have 2 tips for this mod. A smaller one for the op-amps and a medium one for the power cap.

You'll want to use the smaller size of the silver bearing solder... but in all honesty RS solder sucks and I wouldn't use it.


----------



## Chipp

Personally, I recommend Kester #44. I think it was soloz who suggested it to me originally, and I've used it on several projects since and loved it.


----------



## soloz2

yeah, I use Cardas or Kester. I have some of the no-clean kester (244 I believe) that I can cut off and send you if you pay me a few $ for shipping.


----------



## Azetab

hey soloz, how much would it could cost for me to send you this card and have you mod it for me?


----------



## DJ.BigBear

hey... i've encountered 1 weird problem when i mod 1 x-fi last time.....
after i did the mod, PC won;t detect the X-Fi.....
what went wrong?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Azetab*


hey soloz, how much would it could cost for me to send you this card and have you mod it for me?










how much ya got?









I stopped doing these mods some time ago. I don't have all the parts on hand anymore except for the op-amps. So someone would have to twist my arm pretty hard to get me to mod a card for them.


----------



## biatchi

I'm not sure if i can get the LM4562's in the Uk and don't reallt want to wait/pay for delivery from the US so could somebody find me some alternatives from http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp if there are any decent alternatives that is.

They don't sell the Blackgate's as well so i would need an alternative for that also.

Oh and a decent soldering iron as well


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *biatchi* 
I'm not sure if i can get the LM4562's in the Uk and don't reallt want to wait/pay for delivery from the US so could somebody find me some alternatives from http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp if there are any decent alternatives that is.

They don't sell the Blackgate's as well so i would need an alternative for that also.

Oh and a decent soldering iron as well









look for a Hakko dash iron.

I've got some op-amps.

for the cap grab a Panasonic FM series


----------



## biatchi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


look for a Hakko dash iron.

I've got some op-amps.

for the cap grab a Panasonic FM series


I can't find a Hakko Dash, I checked their website and it says that it isn't available in the EU









How much for the op-amps and how much to ship to the UK?

I'l be on the lookout for a FM series.


----------



## Chipp

Rather than have the OP amps shipped international, I'd just buy from Farnell. They are one of National's UK distributors.

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp


----------



## biatchi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chipp* 
Rather than have the OP amps shipped international, I'd just buy from Farnell. They are one of National's UK distributors.

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp

From the looks of it Farnell are the parent company of CPC that i linked to above.

They don't have the exact op amp but they do have this one but just check out the delivery info









Would this be the correct capacitor? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=1219464


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *biatchi* 
From the looks of it Farnell are the parent company of CPC that i linked to above.

They don't have the exact op amp but they do have this one but just check out the delivery info









Would this be the correct capacitor? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=1219464

yeah, that's the correct series. Get a 1000uf one instead. looking at the card you don't need a cap that large, it'll just go to waste and some people actually had problems w/ their cards using such a large cap. I choose 1000uf (before people started reporting problems) and have never had an issue on any card I modded.


----------



## biatchi

This one? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Passive+Co...questid=125598


----------



## TnB= Gir

Quote:

THE X-FI CARDS THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED:
-X-Fi XtremeAudio
-X-Fi XtremeGamer
-Any of the low-profile X-Fis

THE GOOD ONES TO GET:
X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic (best value)

ONES I AM UNSURE about:
X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
This is one of the new ones. The other new ones are the XtremeAudio and XtremeGamer, which are both low profile. The low profile models do not support digital out (not easily, anyway), and they use lower quality components. The XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series is also new, but it is not low profile. If it is based on the same model as the good ones, it would be OK, but I don't know if it is. So it would be best to just avoid it.
What's so bad about my xtremegamer?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *biatchi* 
This one? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Passive+Co...questid=125598

yes. It's about half price too









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TnB= Gir* 
What's so bad about my xtremegamer?









have you read the thread?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Ok - I'm going to do it myself. I can't sit here and continue reading this thread. XD

The problem is - where in the world do I get the chips and the power capacitors? I can't find a working link anywhere.

And what exactly does the paper stuff on the back of the card do?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
Ok - I'm going to do it myself. I can't sit here and continue reading this thread. XD

The problem is - where in the world do I get the chips and the power capacitors? I can't find a working link anywhere.

And is that paper stuff required? I read somewhere along the thread it helps with temperatures or some crap like that.

there are 3 places you can get the op-amps. direct, digikey, or myself.

the caps can be found at places like percyaudio or partsconnexion. Just watch out for minimum order amount. Both places sell ERS paper if you need to reach the minimum.

The ERS is not necessary but does help lower the noise floor.


----------



## trikosuave

Could someone do me a favor.... I am trying to buy all the parts from digikey. I know you cannot get the blackgate there. Could I get a list of all the parts (numbers would be awesome) for the power cap, the options for opamps, and the 16 coupling caps I would need for 5.1/7.1 all around mod?

Thank you!


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trikosuave* 
Could someone do me a favor.... I am trying to buy all the parts from digikey. I know you cannot get the blackgate there. Could I get a list of all the parts (numbers would be awesome) for the power cap, the options for opamps, and the 16 coupling caps I would need for 5.1/7.1 all around mod?

Thank you!

just get the standard op-amps and a 1000uf 16v panasonic fm cap for the power supply and idk what they have that would be good for the coupling caps. Try for a nichicon cap or just short them.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
just get the standard op-amps and a 1000uf 16v panasonic fm cap for the power supply and idk what they have that would be good for the coupling caps. Try for a nichicon cap or just short them.

*DO NOT SHORT THEM*

That is how I wrecked my old X-Fi. Bad advice!


----------



## Le_Loup

Need to verify, the soundcard I have, can I get this mod done on there.

2nd, the first pic, I need it re uploaded.

3rd. Can you list "the best" components to buy that replace said thingers, (note, i'm getting my friend who has taken electrical engineering and similar, to know how this all works, and what each term means...).

4th , wish me luck?









- Le_Loup


----------



## DJ.BigBear

i'll upload the pic for you loup.... just wait 10 minutes

done










red circles = opamps, change with LM4562(clear&aggresive)/AD8599(not too clear but not too aggresive)/AD8066(soft and clean, not too clear)

blue box = caps 22uF 16v (change with same/bigger capacitance and voltage)

green circle = replace with 2200uF 16v or bigger capacitance and voltage


----------



## cyberspyder

BTW guys, here's another little recommendation from bichi:

Quote:

*trikosuave,*
- Depends on which X-FI model you have: SB0460 (Music, Fatality) or SB0550 (Elite, Pro)
- Don't expect much sound quality improvement, changing filter cap C177 (SB0460) / C161 (SB0550) for CA20K1 DSP.
(see *Catx's* excellent post and comment on C177 filter cap: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3694789-post1467.html)
- For basic changes, see below, per model number:
- for more detailed changes, see: X-FI Op Amp and Cap Modification eSnips Folder

*SB0460:* (Music, Fatality)
a) coupling caps, (Front: C23, C50, C76, C77)
b) C46 +5vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 330uf @ 16 or 25vdc
c) C72 -5vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 68uf @ 16 or 25vdc

SB0460 Part Location Reference Only:
X-FI-MOD-070b - eSnips, share anything










*SB0550:* (Elite, Pro)
a) coupling caps, (Front: C45, C58, C35, C49)
b) C104, C133 +/-12vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 330uf @ 16 or 25vdc
c) C55 +5vdc Va supply to DACs: Panasonic FM or FC, 68uf @ 16 or 25vdc
d) C6 +5vdc Va to AK5394 ADC: Kemet 22uf TANT @ 25vdc

SB0550 Part Location Reference Only:
X-FI-MOD-084b - eSnips, share anything









Brendan


----------



## cyberspyder

first post updated ^^^


----------



## DJ.BigBear

that's waaay to extreme and troublesome....
just stick to the older mod.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I need some help with the soldering of the O Amps.

I currently have a Weller Soldering Gun and some Electrical Solder (Rosin Core, Lead Free.)










Now, how do I go about unsoldering the amps on the board? Simple press and hold for a couple of seconds or wait? I tried doing one of them and I see a little red forming, what does that mean?

And once the solder becomes liquid-like, how do I go about removing the chip itself?

Also - do I NEED to have the big Blackgate 1000uf capacitor before using the new o-amps? Or could I use the new oamps without it and just add it in l8r?


----------



## cyberspyder

Do you have any desoldering equipment like a suction bulb? Snip away the legs of the opamp with some side cutters, then desolder the legs from the PCB.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* 
Do you have any desoldering equipment like a suction bulb? Snip away the legs of the opamp with some side cutters, then desolder the legs from the PCB.

I do have a tiny wire cutter. I suppose I could just use that.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

yeah....... i dont know if Im doing this right................


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
yeah....... i dont know if Im doing this right................









When in doubt, ask questions.









What exactly are you not sure about?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Like Im holding the gun to the pins but nothing is obviously happening. All I see is the solder turning red and the pins are not moving. To top it off the iron is smoking like O.O.

The pins aren't moving and the solder remains solid. Even though I can turn around with the gun and put huge hold in this plastic box I have with it.

I've already managed to scorch one of the capacitors next to to the furthest amp to the left. Not badly but enough to have some black/white slime on the gun.


----------



## Chipp

Ouch... That scorched cap might be trouble. I would test it with a multimeter before trying to power the card again.

The solder definitely should not be turning red, it'll melt much before that. What wattage is your iron?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I figured out the red stuff - it was from the plastic box I tested the gun out because I didn't think it was working. The gun is a 140/100 wat gun.

Ima plug in the card and test it to see if I broke it.








This was....... certainly harder and frustrating then expected.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

The card works so far. But those stupid chips are frikken moving for me....


----------



## slytown

I pmed Solo but didn't get a reply so I'll just put what I asked here.

I want to up the extreme music for production and use the Blackgate 1000 over the 2200. Can I get a list of what I need? I'm really asking if I need to buy a new input on top of the new output for recording purposes?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

You need 4 new oamps (5 if you want the input too)
the ERS paper
and a Blackgate 1000uf capacitor


----------



## soloz2

dude... don't even attempt this mod with a solder gun. You NEED an iron! The tip on most soldering guns will cover about 3 of the op-amp legs


----------



## cyberspyder

Try snipping the legs


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* 
Try snipping the legs









with what? Like whats the name of it.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
You need 4 new oamps (5 if you want the input too)
the ERS paper
and a Blackgate 1000uf capacitor

I'm not using surround sound, just stereo. So would I need 2 LM4562MA narrows (1 for input and one for output) and the Blackgate FK 1000 16v capacitor?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slytown* 
I'm not using surround sound, just stereo. So would I need 2 LM4562MA narrows (1 for input and one for output) and the Blackgate FK 1000 16v capacitor?

yep - that would do it. And the ERS paper but Im still not getting the whole function and reasoning behind that so that's your call.

And the story behind the soldering gun.
At first I was going to get a soldering iron but then suddenly my father turned around with the gun and said,"Here ya go". I wasn't sure if there was really a huge difference.....

Whats the difference between them? The point?
And again - whats the name for the cutting thing for the legs?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


yep - that would do it. And the ERS paper but Im still not getting the whole function and reasoning behind that so that's your call.

And the story behind the soldering gun.
At first I was going to get a soldering iron but then suddenly my father turned around with the gun and said,"Here ya go". I wasn't sure if there was really a huge difference.....

Whats the difference between them? The point?
And again - whats the name for the cutting thing for the legs?


an iron or sometimes called a pencil iron is very different from a gun. The entire shape is different. You use a gun for plumbing and other larger jobs and an iron for electronics.

Here's what I have:
http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bi...duct/0460-0004
you can get an iron that is just a little bit larger than the handle of mine and has everything integrated for much less... but it isn't as powerful and won't be temperature controlled.

I recommend a Hakko Dash, but sometimes they can be hard to find. I believe frys/outpost has them.
otherwise if you make a trip to sears these are decent
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...26+Accessories
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...26+Accessories

One of these sets will get you a small pair of cutters, a mini needle nose plier and another useful pair of pliers depending on which set you get:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/s_10153_1...NAL_SORT_ORDER


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I'll buy one from radio shack tomorrow.
We dont have many hardware or computer stores other then things like Best Buy around here.

And those tiny pliers I got. My dad has his own plumbing business and has PLENTY of those things. I thought it was some kind of special thing.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


I'll buy one from radio shack tomorrow.
We dont have many hardware or computer stores other then things like Best Buy around here.

And those tiny pliers I got. My dad has his own plumbing business and has PLENTY of those things. I thought it was some kind of special thing.


no, don't buy one from radio shack. order one online if you have to.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


no, don't buy one from radio shack. order one online if you have to.


why


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


why


As a not-so-proud owner of a RadioShack iron, I can attest to their shoddy build quality, uneven heating, and drastic drop in heat delivered as time goes on. They work best when you first buy them - and even then "best" is not great.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chipp*


As a not-so-proud owner of a RadioShack iron, I can attest to their shoddy build quality, uneven heating, and drastic drop in heat delivered as time goes on. They work best when you first buy them - and even then "best" is not great.


need I say more?

I can personally attest to the quality of a Hakko iron.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

well this will be the only time Ill ever really use it other then phsychal pandora battery hacking but that would be once in a blue moon.

Not to mention I rather wait about 10 hours then 3-7 days for pretty much the same thing to get to my door.


----------



## cyberspyder

Ratshack will suffice, as long as you're not looking for long-term use...


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I snipped off the old oamps - and now I have to solder in the new ones.

How in the name of heaven and hell do I hold the stupid thing in place?


----------



## Chipp

Tweezers are nice.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

but how do I hold the chip in place, hold the solder to it, and the iron at the same time? 3 hands? Sorry, that I dont have. XD


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
but how do I hold the chip in place, hold the solder to it, and the iron at the same time? 3 hands? Sorry, that I dont have. XD

I have my Dad to help out, and he's reasonably trusting that I won't burn the crap out of him.

I would imagine there is a reason why a small 2-clamp device is the top selling tech aid on Parts Express.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=360-670


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I would go buy that and have it next air but it would cost me a totall of over $50







==
I guess Ill have my dad help


----------



## H3||scr3am

Question of importance...

Reading the guide I looked @ national for the name of the opamp, as well as the renamed one (its a little post at the bottom) Now national had them both, so i ordered them both...

LM4562 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html
LME4986 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html

so i have 3 of the LM4562(s) and 5 of the LME4986(s)... now which one do I use on the card? for best sound and performance.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

******ed questions:

Where do I get black foam from and does it attach through self adhesive backing or do I tape it on somehow (and if so, how)?

Do I get the ERS paper w/ adhesive backing?

And is this the specific Blackgate capacitator?
BLKGATE- 60087 Std 2200 16v 18 x 36 $7.95 
I only need one of these for a standard mod on an XtremeGamer Fatal1ty?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

These guys say they did the oamps in like 5 minutes. I can't do it in 3 hours now. Not even 1!


----------



## Azazel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


but how do I hold the chip in place, hold the solder to it, and the iron at the same time? 3 hands? Sorry, that I dont have. XD


I had to solder some surface mounts in tech school and the easiest way was to melt the solder on the contacts of the board. Then put the chip down on top of the solder and push each pin down with the soldering iron. That was the easiest way for me at least.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *H3||scr3am*


Question of importance...

Reading the guide I looked @ national for the name of the opamp, as well as the renamed one (its a little post at the bottom) Now national had them both, so i ordered them both...

LM4562 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html
LME4986 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html

so i have 3 of the LM4562(s) and 5 of the LME4986(s)... now which one do I use on the card? for best sound and performance.


From the specs on each page they seem to be the same except the 4986 can handle more input voltage which you shouldn't have to worry about anyways. Either chip should give you the same result.


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Azazel*


I had to solder some surface mounts in tech school and the easiest way was to melt the solder on the contacts of the board. Then put the chip down on top of the solder and push each pin down with the soldering iron. That was the easiest way for me at least.

From the specs on each page they seem to be the same except the 4986 can handle more input voltage which you shouldn't have to worry about anyways. Either chip should give you the same result.


That was exactly what I was going to say


----------



## H3||scr3am

ok, thanks guys


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


but how do I hold the chip in place, hold the solder to it, and the iron at the same time? 3 hands? Sorry, that I dont have. XD


you hold the iron in one hand, tweezers in your other, and hook the solder inbetween two fingers on the hand holding the tweezers... piece of cake









Quote:



Originally Posted by *H3||scr3am*


Question of importance...

Reading the guide I looked @ national for the name of the opamp, as well as the renamed one (its a little post at the bottom) Now national had them both, so i ordered them both...

LM4562 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html
LME4986 - http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html

so i have 3 of the LM4562(s) and 5 of the LME4986(s)... now which one do I use on the card? for best sound and performance.


4562

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot*


******ed questions:

Where do I get black foam from and does it attach through self adhesive backing or do I tape it on somehow (and if so, how)?

Do I get the ERS paper w/ adhesive backing?

And is this the specific Blackgate capacitator?
BLKGATE- 60087 Std 2200 16v 18 x 36 $7.95 
I only need one of these for a standard mod on an XtremeGamer Fatal1ty?


is that card compatable?
foam from craft store, spray adhesive from craft store
ers is conductive
get 1000uf cap

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


These guys say they did the oamps in like 5 minutes. I can't do it in 3 hours now. Not even 1!


it takes me longer to remove the op-amp and clean the pads than it does to solder one on.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Azazel*


I had to solder some surface mounts in tech school and the easiest way was to melt the solder on the contacts of the board. Then put the chip down on top of the solder and push each pin down with the soldering iron. That was the easiest way for me at least.


not the cleanest method...

put the op-amp down, solder one corner pin, then opposite corner then all the rest.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


you hold the iron in one hand, tweezers in your other, and hook the solder inbetween two fingers on the hand holding the tweezers... piece of cake









4562

is that card compatable?
foam from craft store, spray adhesive from craft store
ers is conductive
get 1000uf cap

it takes me longer to remove the op-amp and clean the pads than it does to solder one on.









not the cleanest method...

put the op-amp down, solder one corner pin, then opposite corner then all the rest.


problem is - I cant even solder a single pin even with the whole "wrap the solder around your finger" which actually made it alot easier to actually make contact with the solder. Problem is - its the most innacurate method so far. I splattered solder almost completely across the other emply oamp spaces but lucky I managed to pick it up before it became completely solid.

I can't even frikken get a pin down - its so frustrating. Been going at it for 4 hours straight.


----------



## shajbot

Can't you just have solder on all of the pins and then use the copper strip thingy (forgot what it's called) to suck out the extra solder. Of course, solder will stay on metal contacts.


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shajbot* 
Can't you just have solder on all of the pins and then use the copper strip thingy (forgot what it's called) to suck out the extra solder. Of course, solder will stay on metal contacts.

I suppose you could, but really that is wayyyy more trouble than it is worth.

The soldering job is pretty simple.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Can't you just have solder on all of the pins and then use the copper strip thingy (forgot what it's called) to suck out the extra solder. Of course, solder will stay on metal contacts.


you could... but that would be the most difficult of the methods presented. plus, if you put solder down on the pads then put the op-amp down unless you can heat up all the pads at once the legs won't be sitting tight next to the pads so there won't be as good of contact.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

I still havent got one on









I havent had it happen, in fact solder hasn't even touched any of the new amps so far, but if I were to get some solder on both pins would that be bad?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
I still havent got one on









I havent had it happen, in fact solder hasn't even touched any of the new amps so far, but if I were to get some solder on both pins would that be bad?

Not as long as no power reaches the OP amp. It would have to be cleaned up (i/e, contact broken) before you put it back in your computer.


----------



## shajbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
you could... but that would be the most difficult of the methods presented. plus, if you put solder down on the pads then put the op-amp down unless you can heat up all the pads at once the legs won't be sitting tight next to the pads so there won't be as good of contact.

The method is the traditional way to mount surface-mount chip. First have chip down in the right place, apply flux and heat it up a little bit. Then have solder on solder iron tip, drag it over the legs. And then because the legs are so close together, it's highly possible to have overhung solder on adjacent legs, therefore use the copper wire to suck it out. I don't know how could that get any easier.


----------



## Mootsfox

Filling out another order at Jameco right now, I might as well order some parts...

They don't have the 4562 or the LME4986. If I buy one from somewhere else, which is better?

Soloz, you said to get a 1000uf cap a couple of posts up, should I just pick any 16v 1000uf cap from Jameco?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mootsfox* 
Filling out another order at Jameco right now, I might as well order some parts...

They don't have the 4562 or the LME4986. If I buy one from somewhere else, which is better?

Soloz, you said to get a 1000uf cap a couple of posts up, should I just pick any 16v 1000uf cap from Jameco?

i'm not familar with jameco. get either a panasonic fm or blackgate standard series cap.

I have a few op-amps left


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


The method is the traditional way to mount surface-mount chip. First have chip down in the right place, apply flux and heat it up a little bit. Then have solder on solder iron tip, drag it over the legs. And then because the legs are so close together, it's highly possible to have overhung solder on adjacent legs, therefore use the copper wire to suck it out. I don't know how could that get any easier.


the problem with that is even on the back of the box of the soldering iron it says you should not do that. Why? I dont know but if its in big bold letters then ya - must be a reason.


----------



## Mootsfox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


the problem with that is even on the back of the box of the soldering iron it says you should not do that. Why? I dont know but if its in big bold letters then ya - must be a reason.


I thought that was the only way to do it....


----------



## shajbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*


the problem with that is even on the back of the box of the soldering iron it says you should not do that. Why? I dont know but if its in big bold letters then ya - must be a reason.


Should not do what? The whole process? :?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shajbot*


Should not do what? The whole process? :?


no - put the solder on the iron and then the chip. Ill try it though


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Nope >.<

I guess ill have to give up and buy another card.
I cant solder these chips on for nothing - either im doing something wrong or there is like...... too much solder. I stick the solder to the iron and it evaportates - forms into a glob - and just falls wherever. I have solder in alot of different places other then the chip slot things themselves.


----------



## Mootsfox

What size tip are you using?

I don't want to put all the videos in a post, so please click this link and watch the half dozen or so videos.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pre...7-SMDSoldering


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

the correct one like shown. But like what the hell - he takes the solder, touches it, and its on the board?! Mine you need to hold down onto the board and hold for 5 seconds because the thing like evaporates.


----------



## Mootsfox

What are you using for an iron, and solder?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mootsfox* 
What are you using for an iron, and solder?


Iron

BernzOMatic Electrical Rosin Core Silver Bearing Lead Free 85g 3oz 0.62"/1.66mm Solder


----------



## Mootsfox

I have that iron!

I also hate it. My experiences with a Weller WESD51 were much better.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mootsfox* 
I have that iron!

I also hate it. My experiences with a Weller WESD51 were much better.

XD

but anyways - like I said the solder almost evaporates on contact and it seems odd. I have to hold the solder to it for a little while and let it "evaporate" before I get a huge bubble let randomly drops anywhere.


----------



## Chipp

Sounds to me like you're trying to place the solder somewhere rather than let gravity do the work. Place the tip of your solder wire on top of the leg you're soldering, and gently press down on it with the tip of the iron. The solder should liquify, surround the leg, and that's your cue to remove the iron so it can re-solidify.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

thats kind of hard considering i cant place the solder wire on the leg if I cant hold the oamp in one place even with some help for me life. This is turning out to be harder then what it should be.


----------



## Mootsfox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28* 
thats kind of hard considering i cant place the solder wire on the leg if I cant hold the oamp in one place even with some help for me life. This is turning out to be harder then what it should be.

Buy a set of these:









http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...ducts_id=8555#


----------



## DJ.BigBear

or THIS!









MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


----------



## shajbot

Chopped Sticks Are Made Of Win.


----------



## soloz2

your problem is probably your solder. I've never seen good solder that came from rat shack.

PM me your address and I'll send you some different solder to try.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Soloz, would you still be willing to mod a card if someone paid you and sent you all the necessary components as well (Opamps, blackgate, etc)? I know you said you don't do them anymore in a previous post but you said it was because you didn't have all the necessary components, so I'm not sure =\\


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* 
Soloz, would you still be willing to mod a card if someone paid you and sent you all the necessary components as well (Opamps, blackgate, etc)? I know you said you don't do them anymore in a previous post but you said it was because you didn't have all the necessary components, so I'm not sure =

it's that and time. I just don't really have the time.

I've got 2 more Millet Max's to build, a pair of headphones to build, a couple HD595 cables and a couple LODs to build all in my queue, and that doesn't include the phono cable and couple IC's that I need to build for myself.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Blah... how hard would you say it is to replace just the OpAmp and nothing else for someone who's never done soldering before? Possibly the Blackgate mod as well. I read some talk of shorting stuff that I totally didn't understand... is that just for when you're replacing the capacitators near the Opamps?


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mootsfox* 
Buy a set of these:









http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...ducts_id=8555#

Already have a pair of tweezers I use to hold it.

Quote:

your problem is probably your solder. I've never seen good solder that came from rat shack.
Didnt come from rat shack - came from Home Depot.

Quote:

lah... how hard would you say it is to replace just the OpAmp and nothing else for someone who's never done soldering before? Possibly the Blackgate mod as well. I read some talk of shorting stuff that I totally didn't understand... is that just for when you're replacing the capacitators near the Opamps?
Ive actually asked several people about the capacitors - and they say it doesnt make much of a difference. Maybe in bass they said. I just got mine today.

And no - my word to you. Dont attempt to do this yourself. XD


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot*


Blah... how hard would you say it is to replace just the OpAmp and nothing else for someone who's never done soldering before? Possibly the Blackgate mod as well. I read some talk of shorting stuff that I totally didn't understand... is that just for when you're replacing the capacitators near the Opamps?


I would say they are both hard for difference reasons.

The power cap is difficult because there is a large heatsink nearby so you have to have the iron on the solder for quite a while, but if you keep it there too long you can ruin the card.

The op-amps are difficult because they are small and are detail work.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Oh wow, just found out that one of my friends knows how to solder.

Is this mod very possible for someone who already has decent experience at soldering? Are there any special supplies for this mod that a person might not have on hand already (like that glue like substance I saw on the bottom of the blackgate? or is that solder? =\\)?


----------



## H3||scr3am

the glue on the bottom is simply hot glue, used to insulate and hold the capacitor in place, if they have adequate solder skills it should be easy enough, just make sure you have a fine point soldering iron, and some good solder/solder wick. and go @ her


----------



## CountChoculaBot

+Rep to all 3 for bein' helpful









Just wondering, is the hot glue necessary? Or is it just an extra safety measure like a seat belt (bwahaha







)?


----------



## H3||scr3am

well hot glue is non conductive, and the top of capacitors can blow and release charge, so its more of a safety measure than anything, but I believe that its better to be safe then sorry.


----------



## Chipp

As H3||scr3am said, its mostly for support; though hot glue is a commonly used electrical insulator. Just an extra measure of safety - though one I'd use especially given the little effort and cost.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Final questions before I order and start:
I still use the LM4562 if I want to replace the line in right?

I'm not sure what to get for the capacitator; there are two Blackgate 1000uf 16v on Parts Connexion:
BLKGATE- 60191 FK 1000 16v 16 x 32 $13.25 
BLKGATE- 60219 Std 1000 16v 16 x 25 $4.75

These 5 opamps and the capacitator I circled are the right ones to replace right?


Also, this is good glue
http://www.createforless.com/product...e-f127d07061ee
and foam
http://www.createforless.com/product...roductID=15196
for mounting the ERS paper right?


----------



## soloz2

get the standard series.

those are the output op-amps


----------



## Chipp

Afraid I can't answer the capacitor question, but your diagram is correct and that foam should be fine. I would personally use hot glue over spray adhesive - you can control where it goes to avoid a mess and I know it's completely non-conductive.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


get the standard series.

those are the output op-amps


So that very top opamp (which I assume to be the line in?) I can't replace with the LM4562 right?


----------



## d3daiM

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot*


So that very top opamp (which I assume to be the line in?) I can't replace with the LM4562 right?


Correct, you shouldn't be touching thatun.


----------



## msheabel

Wow
I only replaced the OPAMP
Definetly a noticable change in quality. Bass seems tighter and more refined. Instruments come to life. I also cant hear the buzz from my speakers at higher volumes anymore.
128kbps tracks can sound like crap. Seems to bring out the worst in poor quality tracks.

Quote:



how hard would you say it is to replace just the OpAmp and nothing else for someone who's never done soldering before?


Go for it. I am a beginner at best and I found it to be no problem after just one practice on an old video card. Just take your time and dont use a $5 iron from radioshack. Spend 20$-$30 on a weller, hakko, something decent to keep good consistant heat.

again Wow


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Okey.... so tomorrow I'll be going to my friend's house to mod this.

Quick Q's:
What's the + and - of the sound card and the blackgate?

How easy is it to break the ends of the Blackgate while bending? I'll have to bend it pretty good (maybe a curved 90 degrees) for it to fit well in my P182, so I'd like to know if I should be very cautious for this part


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot*


Okey.... so tomorrow I'll be going to my friend's house to mod this.

Quick Q's:
What's the + and - of the sound card and the blackgate?

How easy is it to break the ends of the Blackgate while bending? I'll have to bend it pretty good (maybe a curved 90 degrees) for it to fit well in my P182, so I'd like to know if I should be very cautious for this part










the side of the cap with the stripe is negative.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Before I plug it in: Striped side of the capacitator to the white half-circle side right?

Edit
nvm, I got impatient and just decided to stick it in there and to hell with what happened (o_0). It worked


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Err... dumb question:

If I connect an optical cable to the flexijack, would there still be a sound quality boost due to the LM4562, or would it completely bypass it? Also, I can still use all the X-Fi features if I go optical right? 'Cause I keep hearing stuff about digital out's bypassing the sound card...


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot*


Err... dumb question:

If I connect an optical cable to the flexijack, would there still be a sound quality boost due to the LM4562, or would it completely bypass it? Also, I can still use all the X-Fi features if I go optical right? 'Cause I keep hearing stuff about digital out's bypassing the sound card...


No to question 1, yes to question 2.

The op amp upgrade is only good for the analog outputs of the specific channel you upgrade. It will have zero effect on digital output. And yes, you will retain full functionality with the digital out. (If by functionality you're talking about EAX and such)


----------



## Sparhawk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chipp*


No to question 1, yes to question 2.

The op amp upgrade is only good for the analog outputs of the specific channel you upgrade. It will have zero effect on digital output. And yes, you will retain full functionality with the digital out. (If by functionality you're talking about EAX and such)


It seems EAX over digital was a new feature added with a driver update to the X-FI series cards. I've never tested this myself so I have no way of verifying this.


----------



## Trubler

Hello there

I have a problem that's driving me crazy.

I've moded my elite pro with lm4562 opamps, BG 2200uF and shorted 15 out of 20 47uF caps, because the online store didn't have enough caps, so I ordered the rest from percyAudio.

But when I ordered my new graphic card 8600gt the scrachy sound started at some games and bluray movies. So I bought a new power suply LC560W (before 350W). I solved the scrachy sound problem







, but noticed that my elite pro volume is kind of low. Like 30-45% lower.

At changing power suply I had some problems with the conectors & I've kinda pluged the wrong one near my procesor on the motherboard.(don't ask me why







). Q: could I corrupted my motherboard and that's why my sound card's volume is so low???? or did some caps on my soundcard went bye bye??

I've also put the card in another slot and changed it back and reinstalled the drivers.

thx for info guys

my system is P4 3GHz, POWER LC560W, 1GRAM, GCARD 8600GT.


----------



## soloz2

Try ERS paper.

why did you only short some of the caps?


----------



## Trubler

I didn't short 15 of 20 47uF but replaced them. Sorry about that.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trubler* 
I didn't short 15 of 20 47uF but replaced them. Sorry about that.

but each op-amp has 4 caps so you should have either replaced 12 or 16, not 15. This could be part of your problem. what channel has the 'odd cap out?'


----------



## Trubler

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


Try ERS paper.

why did you only short some of the caps?


It's not the quality what seems to be the problem. The Quality is great. It's just the volume. When I moded the SCard it was just fine, but when I replaced the video card and the PSuply it got preety low.

I'll try the card in another computer and we'll see. I mean hear.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trubler*


It's not the quality what seems to be the problem. The Quality is great. It's just the volume. When I moded the SCard it was just fine, but when I replaced the video card and the PSuply it got preety low.

I'll try the card in another computer and we'll see. I mean hear.










that's why I suspect interference. You didn't change anything with the card, but you did replace the two main culprits of noise in your computer.


----------



## Trubler

How do I upload an image here?

My elitepro has 5(47uF)+1(100uF) caps pro preamp. That is 20+4 caps for 4 preamps.

"that's why I suspect interference." that is correct. But I've tryed my old 6600GT and my old power supply. And the truble was still there - low volume.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trubler*


How do I upload an image here?

My elitepro has 5(47uF)+1(100uF) caps pro preamp. That is 20+4 caps for 4 preamps.

"that's why I suspect interference." that is correct. But I've tryed my old 6600GT and my old power supply. And the truble was still there - low volume.


I use imageshack


----------



## Trubler




----------



## soloz2

we'll need a better quality pic of the left side of the card.

your caps look a little haphazard, are you sure none of the leads are touching?


----------



## Blown 89

Sorry for the noob quetsions but I've read the threads here and at Head-fi and am a bit overwhelmed so I have a quick question.

Card: XtremeMusic with Platinum breakout box

Here's what I'm set to order.
4 output opamps - LME4562
Blackgate Standard 1,000uf @ 16v
16 Opamp caps: 22uf @ 16v
C46 & C16 caps: 220uf @ 25v

What should I be replacing the line-in opamp with? I'll be connecting HD-radio though it so I'd like to replace it now if I need to.

Is this correct? Anything else I need? Type of solder? Are there any modifications that need to be don on the Platinum's breakout box?

By the way, Soloz2, thanks for the Hakko 936 suggestion....it was an eye opening experience coming form radioshack irons


----------



## Chipp

My personal favorite solder is kester #44. It melts quick, flows well, and is easy to find (for the time being. If you like it I'd stock up as leaded solder is being phased out per RoHS)


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blown 89*


Sorry for the noob quetsions but I've read the threads here and at Head-fi and am a bit overwhelmed so I have a quick question.

Card: XtremeMusic with Platinum breakout box

Here's what I'm set to order.
4 output opamps - LME4562
Blackgate Standard 1,000uf @ 16v
16 Opamp caps: 22uf @ 16v
C46 & C16 caps: 220uf @ 25v

What should I be replacing the line-in opamp with? I'll be connecting HD-radio though it so I'd like to replace it now if I need to.

Is this correct? Anything else I need? Type of solder? Are there any modifications that need to be don on the Platinum's breakout box?

By the way, Soloz2, thanks for the Hakko 936 suggestion....it was an eye opening experience coming form radioshack irons










the 939 is a great unit. Best $80 I've spent on soldering equipment.

I recommend Nichicon audio grade caps for the bypass caps. You can get the correct size that will fit in the spaces on the card so it'll look neater.

you can use the same op-amp for input and I probably have a stash if you need some.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chipp*


My personal favorite solder is kester #44. It melts quick, flows well, and is easy to find (for the time being. If you like it I'd stock up as leaded solder is being phased out per RoHS)


try the no-clean... I think it's #240 or 244. But I use Cardas almost exclusively these days... Kester is so much nicer on PCB work, but when you're building boutique amps with silver internal wiring it makes sense to use silver solder too.


----------



## Trubler

So here's my new moded elite pro:


By trubler

Soloz2: about my problem. I think that I solved it. The first problem was, that one black wire from the Sound card power suply has been loosened. The other problem was, when puting bigger size caps bring the volume of sound to a 25 % drop, so you have to power up the winamp to about 80-90%, SC to 50-70% and reciever to 40-50%.

Think about replacing the 2200uF cap for a bigger one. Would that bring more power to my sound card and I wouldn't have to power the volume so much????

I must say that replacing the preamp caps was a must thing to do because it brings the sound details to the surfice. I couldn't belive that now I can hear almost every instrument clearly. So guys: GO AND REPLACE THEM!!!

bye


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trubler* 
So here's my new moded elite pro:


By trubler

Soloz2: about my problem. I think that I solved it. The first problem was, that one black wire from the Sound card power suply has been loosened. The other problem was, when puting bigger size caps bring the volume of sound to a 25 % drop, so you have to power up the winamp to about 80-90%, SC to 50-70% and reciever to 40-50%.

Think about replacing the 2200uF cap for a bigger one. Would that bring more power to my sound card and I wouldn't have to power the volume so much????

I must say that replacing the preamp caps was a must thing to do because it brings the sound details to the surfice. I couldn't belive that now I can hear almost every instrument clearly. So guys: GO AND REPLACE THEM!!!

bye

you'll get better SQ by having windows at 100% and let your receiver do the volume control.

You need to use some heatshrink or hot glue or something to keep the power cap leads from touching and shorting... and taking your card with them.

If anything go smaller on the power cap. 1000uf is more stable.


----------



## gonX

Why is there a floppy connector there? 
Is there one on the XtremeMusic you have to plug in too?


----------



## Trubler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Why is there a floppy connector there? 
Is there one on the XtremeMusic you have to plug in too?

You mean power suply for the external unit?

I don't know if xtreme music has one....


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trubler*


You mean power suply for the external unit?

I don't know if xtreme music has one....


It does not.


----------



## gonX

Err, external unit? Sorry I'm lost, are we talking about the breakout box?


----------



## soloz2

I think the XtremeMusic actually does have the floppy power connector.


----------



## Chipp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I think the XtremeMusic actually does have the floppy power connector.

Really? I don't seem to remember there being one on my card, perhaps OEM versions are different than retail. (I don't know my SKU off the top of my head).


----------



## Blown 89

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I recommend Nichicon audio grade caps for the bypass caps. You can get the correct size that will fit in the spaces on the card so it'll look neater.

Which series do you recommend and where's the best place to find them? Of the sites I've looked through tonight there are a number of model numbers and not all are audio grade nor do they have the proper microfarad and voltage ratings. From what I can gather the KZ and FX series are their top audio caps but I can't find the right ones and have no idea which dimensions fit best on the X-fi.


----------



## Blown 89

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chipp*


Really? I don't seem to remember there being one on my card, perhaps OEM versions are different than retail. (I don't know my SKU off the top of my head).










I can clear this up. I have a burned out platinum with the I/O box and just installed an ExtremeMusic from Dell. It's the exact same card down to the model numbers stamped on the circuit board. The Platinum was retail, the Music is OEM.


----------



## soloz2

22μF ...................25V FG ........... .65.............5mm x 11mm

percyaudio has them. you need a $25 min order though i think. You can get all the caps and ERS from him.


----------



## Blown 89

Thanks, I'll call them Monday. $25 shouldn't be a problem, I'm doing two cards. One for my desktop and one for my mobile project.


----------



## riptor

Hey guys i just ordered a sample of the LME4562 opamps, but since i only got 3, i was wondering if anyone can mail an extra one they might have laying around. 
it shouldnt cost much to mail, just a small envelope and a 50cent post stamp.

Also just wondering if i got the correct parts, the invoice says:
NSID: LM4562MA NOPB 
Quantity: 3


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *riptor*


Hey guys i just ordered a sample of the LME4562 opamps, but since i only got 3, i was wondering if anyone can mail an extra one they might have laying around. 
it shouldnt cost much to mail, just a small envelope and a 50cent post stamp.

I hope i got the correct parts, the invoice says,

NSID: LM4562MA NOPB 
Quantity: 3


I have I think 3, but I purchased them so I'd want to recoup my $


----------



## riptor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I have I think 3, but I purchased them so I'd want to recoup my $


well we spoke, but you wanted $10 bucks just for one single one, if i had one extra i would just give it out of good friendship.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Order the LME49720 as a free sample if you need one more LM4562. Apparently, they're the exact same thing.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *riptor*


well we spoke, but you wanted $10 bucks just for one single one, if i had one extra i would just give it out of good friendship.


you can only get a maximum of 3 free, and you did get those 3 for free. If you were to buy them from a retailer you would spend about $5.50-6 each plus tax and shipping. When you buy them in bulk it comes out to just over $6ea. But for just 1 of them you're looking at say $5.75 + $5-10 handling fee for a small order + tax + shipping. You're looking at a minimum of $15-16

The way I see it $6 for an op-amp + $1.50 for padded envelope + $1.75 shipping + pp fees comes to about $9.82 a savings of at least $5-6 and I'm not making any money... but then again I shouldn't have to spell it out. I hope you find someone who wants to give away stuff for free.


----------



## riptor

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


you can only get a maximum of 3 free, and you did get those 3 for free. If you were to buy them from a retailer you would spend about $5.50-6 each plus tax and shipping. When you buy them in bulk it comes out to just over $6ea. But for just 1 of them you're looking at say $5.75 + $5-10 handling fee for a small order + tax + shipping. You're looking at a minimum of $15-16

The way I see it $6 for an op-amp + $1.50 for padded envelope + $1.75 shipping + pp fees comes to about $9.82 a savings of at least $5-6 and I'm not making any money... but then again I shouldn't have to spell it out. I hope you find someone who wants to give away stuff for free.


Well just to prove you wrong, i will order another sample set, and will return here to give the other 2 away for free to others who are going to order samples, yes there are people in this world who care more about giving than how much they can get. 10 buck is nothing to me, i just couldn't be bothered to wait another 15 days, when if mailed in an envelop takes 2.

I didnt expect to get anything from you either cause you only seem to come off as money hungry individual.


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *riptor*


Well just to prove you wrong, i will order another sample set, and will return here to give the other 2 away for free to others who are going to order samples, yes there are people in this world who care more about giving than how much they can get. 10 buck is nothing to me, i just couldn't be bothered to wait another 15 days, when if mailed in a envelop takes 2.


The gentlemen runs a business, and as such he has slightly different motives than yourself. I expect that you will respect his intentions just as I expect him to respect yours.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riptor* 
Well just to prove you wrong, i will order another sample set, and will return here to give the other 2 away for free to others who are going to order samples, yes there are people in this world who care more about giving than how much they can get. 10 buck is nothing to me, i just couldn't be bothered to wait another 15 days, when if mailed in an envelop takes 2.

I didnt expect to get anything from you either cause you only seem to come off as money hungry individual.

If you read the stipulations you technically are not supposed to do what you propose.

If you follow my posts at all you would see that I just 'gave' away a headphone and cable for basically the cost of the cable.

I do not wish to argue with you nor to create a scene. It is better for me to sit on a product than to give it away and as such I shall. I only offered you the op-amp to try to help and if you look at my previous post the single op-amp I offered is cheaper than if you were to buy a single op-amp from digi-key. My previous post was meant only to justify my reason for asking the price I did.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chipp* 
The gentlemen runs a business, and as such he has slightly different motives than yourself. I expect that you will respect his intentions just as I expect him to respect yours.


----------



## Nights85

Quote:



Originally Posted by *riptor*


Well just to prove you wrong, i will order another sample set, and will return here to give the other 2 away for free to others who are going to order samples, yes there are people in this world who care more about giving than how much they can get. 10 buck is nothing to me, i just couldn't be bothered to wait another 15 days, when if mailed in an envelop takes 2.

I didnt expect to get anything from you either cause you only seem to come off as money hungry individual.


You've got 4 posts and if the 10 bucks is nothing to you why are you complaining about it? I wouldn't give you a free chip if my life depended on it. Many wouldn't and its not because they are " money hungry individuals. "

Quote:



THE X-FI CARDS THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED:
-X-Fi XtremeAudio
-X-Fi XtremeGamer
-Any of the low-profile X-Fis

THE GOOD ONES TO GET:
X-Fi Elite Pro
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS
X-Fi Platinum
X-Fi XtremeMusic (best value)

ONES I AM UNSURE about:
X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
This is one of the new ones. The other new ones are the XtremeAudio and XtremeGamer, which are both low profile. The low profile models do not support digital out (not easily, anyway), and they use lower quality components. The XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series is also new, but it is not low profile. If it is based on the same model as the good ones, it would be OK, but I don't know if it is. So it would be best to just avoid it.


Anyways I don't plan on modding or anything I might one day but I was planning on getting either the XtremeGamer or XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro ..

Should I stay away from the XtremeGamer then? I've always used onboard sound and am now.. Realtek HD bs.. ALC889A So I am wondering wich should I get and from what I understand I should technically see a considerable difference even on the lesser X-Fi's? I have HD555's and I'm shooting for the extra bass clearer sounds and Virtual surround..


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *riptor*


I didnt expect to get anything from you either cause you only seem to come off as money hungry individual.


Maybe you should read what he said before talking crap about it? Soloz had to buy them, I don't see why he would pay for something, then ship to to a random stranger for free. He's not even asking for more then it would cost him.

BTW I had a question about the shielding paper. My brother says it would need to be grounded to work properally. Is it supposed to be touching a ground line on the card or something?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 

BTW I had a question about the shielding paper. My brother says it would need to be grounded to work properally. Is it supposed to be touching a ground line on the card or something?

yeah you should have the ERS paper grounded.

The way I do this is to use thin foam that you get from a craft store as insulation between the card and the ERS, then I cut out a small square on the corner where the small bolt that holds the plate to the card. The ERS will touch the bold and thus be grounded to the case.


----------



## cyberspyder

Yes, stay away from the low-profile ones. The quality of it is crap, compared to the original X-Fi...and will an admin delete these posts please? We don't need to start an argument on people's morals or motives. Screw off jacka$$es.


----------



## Trubler

Hey

Has anyone tried the TI shield for Percy? I bought it but I didn't install it yet. It has 2 layers of coper and a fero magnetic layer in between. He sais: "TI Shield is
effective from below 10Hz up to 10GHz".


----------



## slurpee1080

wouldn't it be possible to perform this mod on the low profile xtreme audio? or is it just not worth the time or money?

well.... Doesnt the xfi xtreme audio still support max 128 sounds??


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slurpee1080*


wouldn't it be possible to perform this mod on the low profile xtreme audio? or is it just not worth the time or money?


the audio is a totally different card than the other x-fi's and frankly only has the x-fi name as a selling gimmick. I'm not sure if you could mod it or not.


----------



## Trubler

Quote:



Originally Posted by *slurpee1080*


wouldn't it be possible to perform this mod on the low profile xtreme audio? or is it just not worth the time or money?


In my opinion, just buy the Creative elite pro and mod it with the best caps & preamps and I garantie that you'll not be sorry for spending money on a hi-end music card. That is if you have some hi-end speakers and a good amplifier or very good headfones.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trubler* 
In my opinion, just buy the Creative elite pro and mod it with the best caps & preamps and I garantie that you'll not be sorry for spending money on a hi-end music card. That is if you have some hi-end speakers and a good amplifier or very good headfones.

just get the auzen. It's about on par w/ the modded x-fi and about the same price.


----------



## XJBluto

I cannot answer the question- Why???


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:



Originally Posted by *XJBluto*









I cannot answer the question- Why???


Because it sounds better


----------



## Blown 89

Is anyone still charging members to do this mod? I'm having a hell of a time with the caps. Solder work on this small of a scale isn't in my bag of tricks. Soldering them on isn't an issue, it's getting them off without frying the board that's giving me fits.


----------



## cyberspyder

you want me to? Problem is that I'm up here in Canada, and it'll be cheaper to mail it to hellscream or soloz.


----------



## Blown 89

I don't mind shipping it at all. PM sent.

I have two cards, the one I'll send you is holding up my CarPC project and I can't replace it for a Prelude (I need the extra analogue inputs) but the second card that's in my desktop I'll keep attempting to learn on and simply replace it with a Prelude if I royally bork it. Do you guys have any suggestions for desoldering the caps? I have about a 50% failure rate of sucking all of the solder out with a whick and the rest of the time it sucks out half.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blown 89*


I don't mind shipping it at all. PM sent.

I have two cards, the one I'll send you is holding up my CarPC project and I can't replace it for a Prelude (I need the extra analogue inputs) but the second card that's in my desktop I'll keep attempting to learn on and simply replace it with a Prelude if I royally bork it. Do you guys have any suggestions for desoldering the caps? I have about a 50% failure rate of sucking all of the solder out with a whick and the rest of the time it sucks out half.


use a solder sucker


----------



## Blown 89

Are there any types or brands that are better or worse than others?


----------



## chevowner

Soloz2, could you please mod my X-Fi board?


----------



## Trubler

Check out the direct competition to auzentech and creative

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/ind...1&limitstart=0


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chevowner*


Soloz2, could you please mod my X-Fi board?


no


----------



## cyberspyder

deleted...sry for response.


----------



## Trubler

I'm talking about hi-end capabilities man. The unmoded card outruns the competition by a mile think of what it can do when beein' moded.... Please don't be so agresive with your answers. I'm not atacking you in any way.

I paid for my creative elite pro 250â‚¬ and some 80â‚¬ for caps and TI shield, so 170$ isn't a lot of money if I compare it to creative.


----------



## Blown 89

The Xonar is nice but it lacks the I/O options and EAX support of the Prelude and X-Fi. I talked with Auzentech a few weeks ago and apparently they have HDMI add-ons coming for that card soon as well. The Xonar appears to be a really nice card but, in my mind, it's for a different market. I looked long and hard at getting it but it lacked a few essential requirements I needed. Good recommendation though


----------



## CrackClocker

I just bought the elite pro + headset combo for $70 bucks, couldn't resist







and did the mod again. This time I found an easier way to get the opamp to stick to the pcb while soldering, much better than the tape method. I had some Elmer's cement glue left over from my school projects and decided to use a bit of that on the bottom of the lm4562. It took about 30 seconds to dry on the pcb. Much more efficient and quicker soldering.


----------



## Grumpel

Just did this mod today using the LME4986. Is there any issue with using this over the LM4562? I also replaced the other opamps.


----------



## francesthemutes

Does anyone know where I can find a solid capacitor? I've been looking on eBay for Blackgates and Nichicon KG's but the only ones I could find were standard Nichicons 2200uf 16v. I found the opamp as well which is good but I was hoping to get a nice solid capacitor of good quality. Should I just jump on the regular Nichicons?


----------



## Chipp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *francesthemutes*


Does anyone know where I can find a solid capacitor? I've been looking on eBay for Blackgates and Nichicon KG's but the only ones I could find were standard Nichicons 2200uf 16v. I found the opamp as well which is good but I was hoping to get a nice solid capacitor of good quality. Should I just jump on the regular Nichicons?


There is no reason not to, in my opinion. Though solid caps do have a much longer lifespan in situations like those near the CPU or VRMs where they could get quite warm, at lower temperatures the lifespan difference is lessened.


----------



## soloz2

you can get a plackgate power cap and nichicon coupling caps from percy audio.

a panasonic FM would actually probably be better for the power cap.

You only want 1000uf max


----------



## Grumpel

I only did the Opamp mod as mentioned above and I cannot believe the difference in sound. It is simply amazing. I went with the LME4860 as opposed to the LM4562 and I must say I am simply amazed at the difference.

I was considering replacing the power cap but I read that it doesn't offer up as much improvement as the Opamp mod. Is it something that I should do or am I just fine with the opamp mod?


----------



## Manyak

I'm having trouble finding the LM4562, everyone seems to be out of stock.

Are there any other good OPAMPs to use? Or at least, does anyone know the input voltage so I know what the choices are?


----------



## Manyak

^^ bump for above post!!


----------



## soloz2

you can get samples direct from national.


----------



## yzriver

I have a X-Fi Platinum with the I/O bay installed in my PC. I just set it up last night, and listened music from the headphone output on the panel. The sound is murdy. Yes, I amplified the headphone output with a headphone amplfier to drive my AKG K501. I feel it is worse than using the XMod.
I am excited to find this thread. I don't care much on the sound quality of the analog line-out, since I will use digital out to my receiver for playing music with speakers. 
Could you guys suggest how I can upgrade the headphone output module of this X-Fi Platinum?

thanks a lot.


----------



## soloz2

just use the line out on the card itself


----------



## Zulli85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yzriver* 
I have a X-Fi Platinum with the I/O bay installed in my PC. I just set it up last night, and listened music from the headphone output on the panel. The sound is murdy. Yes, I amplified the headphone output with a headphone amplfier to drive my AKG K501. I feel it is worse than using the XMod.
I am excited to find this thread. I don't care much on the sound quality of the analog line-out, since I will use digital out to my receiver for playing music with speakers.
Could you guys suggest how I can upgrade the headphone output module of this X-Fi Platinum?

thanks a lot.

Welcome to OCN.







I agree with what soloz2 said, just use the line out on the sound card itself. That I/O panel isn't the best piece of hardware in the world.


----------



## porschedrifter

When I get time I think i'll do the opamp and power filter capacitor mods, just gotta pick up a copper wick solder head


----------



## francesthemutes

Is 470uf a little low for the capacitor?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *francesthemutes*


Is 470uf a little low for the capacitor?


power cap? I think stock is only 220uf if I remember correct. So you should be fine. The initial few suggested 2200uf, but that's just too big and actually messed up some peoples cards as there was such a huge difference. I've always recommended 1000uf.


----------



## BlankThis

Reading that made my head hurt... Is the sound difference _REALLY_ noticeable?

~B~


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlankThis*


Reading that made my head hurt... Is the sound difference _REALLY_ noticeable?

~B~


the stock power filtering cap is just way too small and crappy. You want something a bit larger to enhance the lower end and you want something with better filtering characteristics.

My recomendations:
1000uf 16v Panasonic FM or Blackgate Std series


----------



## francesthemutes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


power cap? I think stock is only 220uf if I remember correct. So you should be fine. The initial few suggested 2200uf, but that's just too big and actually messed up some peoples cards as there was such a huge difference. I've always recommended 1000uf.


Thanks for the quick reply. Can you give me a nice recommendation as to something I could find on eBay? I've got an LME49720 comin' from NS. Unfortunately I had to pay S&H but oh well. Aha.

Hopefully you can give a recommendation as to what would be best. Thanks.

Oh, on a side note can someone tell me how what a micro farad does? I understand the voltage part but I don't understand how the uf works. TIA!


----------



## soloz2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance

Panasonic FM caps are readily available at most online retailers such as Digikey

Blackgates are available at several boutique dealers such as partsconnexion.

I wouldn't recommend purchasing either from ebay.


----------



## Semper Fidelis

You mentioned that the X-Fi Fatal1ty is a good one, so does that include the new Titanium Fatal1ty Professional one?

Its a PCIe x1 card so does that impact performance at all?


----------



## H3||scr3am

yeah stay away from ebay for boutique parts, you may end up with chinese knock offs, that suck and cost you an arm and a leg versus what they're really worth...


----------



## francesthemutes

Damn. Being in Canada causes me to get raped by customs fees. I'll need to go through eBay but I'll have to be smart about it. Buy from North America only.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *francesthemutes*


Damn. Being in Canada causes me to get raped by customs fees. I'll need to go through eBay but I'll have to be smart about it. Buy from North America only.


or you could be even smarter and look at the vendors I mentioned a few posts up.

*hint* one of them is located in Canada...








~they even carry ERS paper~

regarding the new x-fi's your guess is as good as mine. I haven't seen one in person, nor have I heard of anyone modding one. Ever since the Auzen Prelude was released the x-fi modding frenzy died down... just get the Auzen and be done with it. Still have a warranty and a better card than a cheap x-fi with mods. You can roll op-amps and add ERS paper if you like.


----------



## H3||scr3am

yeah partsconnexion is located in ONtario, so customs fees and duties are non existant... thats where I get my blackgates







and other boutique electronics, they're also having a sale on alot of stuff right now, check them out... just order more then $25 worth of stuff to avoid the minimum purchase fee...


----------



## woodpigeon4

I'd love to try this, but as someone once said to me, I have the soldering skills of a squirrel!


----------



## Kaishi

how hard is it to replace just the capacitors in the board? I'm under the impression that since they mount through the PCB, and solder in place on the back, that they must be fairly easy to work with.

I haven't soldered on PCB before but have some old cards on which to practice. Is recapping the board worth it? I'm mostly concerned about longevity and durability, but improving sound quality is always a plus too. Can anyone recommend a particular model of cap for recapping the board? Are several different caps required?

I have satisfied with the op-amps so far, and it seems like replacing those would be a lot harder. I might consider them down the road.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


the stock power filtering cap is just way too small and crappy. You want something a bit larger to enhance the lower end and you want something with better filtering characteristics.

My recomendations:
1000uf 16v Panasonic FM or Blackgate Std series


What are the diameters of these caps? I want to side mount one to maintain the 1 slot. Currently my video card HS bracket is touching the stock cap.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaishi*


how hard is it to replace just the capacitors in the board? I'm under the impression that since they mount through the PCB, and solder in place on the back, that they must be fairly easy to work with.

I haven't soldered on PCB before but have some old cards on which to practice. Is recapping the board worth it? I'm mostly concerned about longevity and durability, but improving sound quality is always a plus too. Can anyone recommend a particular model of cap for recapping the board? Are several different caps required?

I have satisfied with the op-amps so far, and it seems like replacing those would be a lot harder. I might consider them down the road.


actually Creative used crap PCBs and it's easier to replace the surface mount components on these cards than the through hole components.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*


What are the diameters of these caps? I want to side mount one to maintain the 1 slot. Currently my video card HS bracket is touching the stock cap.


Look at the specs on the cap you are interested in. As a general rule, the higher the value and voltage rating, the larger the size.


----------



## michelhack

Thanks everybody and thanks for all the info on this forum i must say i have enjoy learning about this mod

yesterday I changed the opamp on my fatal1ty and i definitively found a positive change with it
I also would like to change the caps for black cage and get ERS paper but before I buying them from some online store why dont you guys PM and let me know if you can hook me up with some goodies


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *michelhack*


Thanks everybody and thanks for all the info on this forum i must say i have enjoy learning about this mod

yesterday I changed the opamp on my fatal1ty and i definitively found a positive change with it
I also would like to change the caps for black cage and get ERS paper but before I buying them from some online store why dont you guys PM and let me know if you can hook me up with some goodies










ERS is $20/sheet and the cap will run you about $7. I have ERS, but no cap. I doubt you'll find someone here who has both.

You can get both from either percyaudio or partsconnexion. Both have minimum orders though so if you aren't getting anything else you might as well just get a full ERS sheet to meet min order amount even though you only need 1/3 of the sheet.


----------



## michelhack

somewhere in the post I read that shorting the caps near the opamp would improve the sound... would anyone post a picture showing the caps that would need to be short.

thanks


----------



## KipH

I walked into a dimly lit store full of coffee cans in the new Taipei computer market and what do I see? More caps than I know what to do with. They came in all shapes and sizes and colours (well mot many shapes). I though of you all immediately but did not buy, as this sound stuff is way over my tone deaf head.


----------



## mayafree

Dear SOLOZ2,

If I replace the original opamps with 5 (4 sur + 1 rec) LME49860MA SOIC Narrow will it be the same professional quality as the LM4562MA OR I should use only the LM4562MA?

It is very important for me and in my country LME49860MA is available but I trust in your advise!!!

Thanks.


----------



## soloz2

you would have to look at the specs to see if it is a suitable op-amp. I'm currently using opa627bp in my x-fi based card.


----------



## Sparhawk

I'm seconds away from buying a Prelude, should I get the prelude? 
I'm thinking of upgrading my card. 
Would I be able to run both cards at the same time? 
Are there any better cards available or rumors of new ones? I haven't heard of any. $180 including tax and shipping. 
Any suggestions?

Will this be better than the one I have in terms of bass response?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sparhawk* 
I'm seconds away from buying a Prelude, should I get the prelude?
I'm thinking of upgrading my card.
Would I be able to run both cards at the same time?
Are there any better cards available or rumors of new ones? I haven't heard of any. $180 including tax and shipping.
Any suggestions?

Will this be better than the one I have in terms of bass response?

The Prelude is better... however this is not exactly the correct place to post such questions.


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

From a few pages from this forum and from the internet I collected this and now I have my last questions/request.

1.,
LM4562MA

Power Supply Voltage Range Â±2.5V to Â±17V
Input Noise Density 2.7nV/ ? ^Hz (typ)
Slew Rate Â±20V/Âµs (typ)
Gain Bandwidth Product 55MHz (typ)
Open Loop Gain (RL = 600?) 140dB (typ)
Input Bias Current 10nA (typ)
Input Offset Voltage 0.1mV (typ)
DC Gain Linearity Error 0.000009%
THD 0.00003 %
PSRR 120 dB
Supply Min 5 Volt
Single/Dual/Quad Dual
Special Features Ultra Low Distortion, Very Low Noise
THD Conditions Av=1; Vout=3Vrms; Load=600ohm and 2k
PSRR Conditions delta(Vs)=20V
Supply Max 34 Volt

LME49860 MA
Only the difference:

Power Supply Voltage Range Â±2.5V to Â±22V
Special Features High Operating Voltage, Ultra Low Distortion, Very Low Noise
PSRR Conditions delta(Vs)=30V
Supply Max 44 Volt

They are nearly at the same price, which one would you offer?

2., It's strange for me that on the Azuntech X-fi Prelude for the front channel is a LM4562 which is replaceable of course :-;, and for the sourround is OPA2134
ULTRA LOW DISTORTION: 0.00008%
LOW NOISE: 8nV/Ã-Hz
SLEW RATE: 20V/ms
BANDWIDTH: 8MHz
HIGH OPEN-LOOP GAIN: 120dB (600W)
WIDE SUPPLY RANGE: Â±2.5V to Â±18V

Do you know any answer for that? I mean all of them could be LM4562 or OPA2134.

3., I think that you mentioned in this forum that you only offer 1000uF 16 V Panasonic FM or Blackgate Std series for the power cap (because bigger one could destroy the card). Panasonic is enough or Blackgate worth the price? Is it true that you replaced the opamps and use the ERS paper but did not changed the power cap?

4., If you would like to mod an X-fi Xtreme Music card right now what changes would you offer in the best value/price category and in the best quality(price doesn't matter) category? Like a summary of the forum.

Sorry for the long questions and I'm waiting for your answer.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## soloz2

the surround op amps aren't as critical as the front, and many people will only hook up stereo speakers, so why spend money? I'm sure that's what Auden was thinking, and the opamps chosen are still retry decent.

Blackgate I'd prob a bit better, but about 200% the price as well

I replaced everything on my card, several other caps as well.

Personally I wouldn't bother upgrading a creative x-fi at this point. Just ditch it and get an Auzen. You'll age a better sounding, more vaable card with a warranty


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

Now I have the LM4562MA opamps but I can't get Black Gate and sorry but I don't trust the Panasonic Fm series enough. Would you offer another 2 kind of electrolityc capacitors makers and exact type for this mod only for the power cap! For example in Central Europe (Nichicon, Jamaicon or something)


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mayafree*


Dear Soloz2,

Now I have the LM4562MA opamps but I can't get Black Gate and sorry but I don't trust the Panasonic Fm series enough. Would you offer another 2 kind of electrolityc capacitors makers and exact type for this mod only for the power cap! For example in Central Europe (Nichicon, Jamaicon or something)


Welcome to OCN!

I respectfully decline to offer any more suggestions since you have made it clear you do not trust my previous recommendation. Nichicon, however does make a good cap for the position, read the specs and make a decision from the data sheets.


----------



## mayafree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I respectfully decline to offer any more suggestions since you have made it clear you do not trust my previous recommendation...

First of all I'm sorry and please don't take it that way beacuse it isn't true!!!

All I'm saying I'd desperately buy a Black Gate I insist on it because that was your offer and you said you'd probe Black Gate a bit better over Panasonic Fm.

At the moment I would like to buy the best choice for the power cap because I won't buy another card. And Panasonic Fm was you second choice ( and yeah it's much cheaper, that's why I'm confused) and I thought you'd offer something instead of Black Gate your first choice!

It's up to you if you help or not just don't be pissed at me because it wasn't on purpose!


----------



## mayafree

The 3 best capacitor available in my country and spec nearly the same, which one do you offer:

1000 uF 16V

Impedance Maximum permissible
(Ohm 20 C MAX.) ripple current (mA r.m.s./105Â°C, 100kHz)

Rubycon ZL 0.023 1820

Nichicon HD 0.023 1820

Panasonic FM 0.019 2180

So it means the Panasonic FM won?
Do you think that Rubycon the manufacturer of Black Gate is as good as Black Gate was?


----------



## soloz2

Panasonic FM are some of the best caps for power filtering, hands down. That's what I use in all the power supplies I build. The amp sitting on my desk has Blackgates in the signal path and Panasonic FM in the power supply.


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

Next week will arrive the Panasonic FM caps. And at last, I would like to buy a headphone amplifier for my HD 555. I know that the following 2 amps are very low end but it's better than nothing. I know it's childish but which one is better in your opinion: (I can't build an amp for myself ;-))
1.,
a., http://www.behringer.com/HA400/?lang=ENG
b., http://www.monacor.de/typo3/index.ph...pr=EN&typ=full

2., Is it true that if you mute the volume of CD audio on the X-fi volume control panel than it will bring less noise through the analog output? (Of course when you listen anything but not a CD)

3., At which percent is better (on the volume control) the sound quality of an X-fi Extreme Music? At 85% or 100%?

Thanks for all your answers and help!!!
P.s: I think I've finished it all with these questions.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mayafree*


Dear Soloz2,

Next week will arrive the Panasonic FM caps. And at last, I would like to buy a headphone amplifier for my HD 555. I know that the following 2 amps are very low end but it's better than nothing. I know it's childish but which one is better in your opinion: (I can't build an amp for myself ;-)) 
1.,
a., http://www.behringer.com/HA400/?lang=ENG
b., http://www.monacor.de/typo3/index.ph...pr=EN&typ=full

2., Is it true that if you mute the volume of CD audio on the X-fi volume control panel than it will bring less noise through the analog output? (Of course when you listen anything but not a CD)

3., At which percent is better (on the volume control) the sound quality of an X-fi Extreme Music? At 85% or 100%?

Thanks for all your answers and help!!!
P.s: I think I've finished it all with these questions.


I'm not familar with any of those amps. For a cheap amp, you should look for a used mini3 or MisterX XP.


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

Please help me because I think Ive destroyed my card!


Accidentely I also changed the IC in the center of the red rectangle with LM4562MA

1., Do you know the function of that IC. Do I have to replace with the old one or keep the LM4562MA?

2., If I have to replace with the old one the capacitors get too much heat (twice). How much time does it long now? One or two year?

3., Would you be so kind to tell the exact type of those 6 capacitors.
a., 2 biggest
b., 3 medium
c., 1 small size capacitors inside the red rectangle

to replace each of them with Panasonic ? series, ?V and ?F

This is life saving for me!!!! THANKS!


----------



## soloz2

yeah, put the original chip back in place. I don't have a card on hand to see what it is.

don't worry about anything else until you put the chip back and see if your card still works.

This is why I highly recommend getting an Auzen Prelude.


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

It is an honour for me your answer and do you think I should replace the capacitors just around the mistakenly replaced IC?

If YES what Volt and uF and what PANASONIC series I should use...
a, b, c (three different size)

Please IF YOU think it is useful and you answer later when you will have an Extreme music card around you I will be patient and will wait for your answer!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## SE530

Hey everybody.

Today my sound setup includes: Auzen X-Fi Prelude, Z-5500 and Schure SE530.

I want to change the op-amp on Prelude for Texas Instrumentâ€™s OPA 627SM's (only for the front channel, since I am weak at soldering). I found them available on ebay and with shipment they will cost ~$60. The problem is - I have no idea where can I get Auzen adaptor for them.

I've found a reference to BrownDog, however - this adaptor requires additional modding (if can be used at all with 627SM).

Any help is greatly appriciated.

p.s. just ordered some speaker wire (2.5mm in diameter) for z-5500 as well as cables to change the included one for 6ch direct connection. I dont expect much change in sound quality, I guess it is more matter of modding/changing something in the setup + of course the persue of even better sound and maxing out Z-5500 performance. I believe however that SE530 will shine with opamp upgrade. Thanks again, audiophile fellows.


----------



## soloz2

you can order the op-amps on adapters direct from auzentech


----------



## SE530

Thanks for reply, Soloz2.

My main concern is that there is no option to test the opamp before buying, thus figuring out if the cost is justified for your particular needs or not. If an option of a full refound if unsatisfied would exist - I would not hesitate to try them out.

To get the opamp with shipment would cost me $273. It is more then the price of the card itself (~$180) and is almost as much as Z-5500. In my opinion paying 150% of the price of the product (in this case X-Fi prelude) for the slight(?) upgrade (only front channels) in any case would make you want to test this upgrade first.

The thing with me is that I just love music and in particular - quality source. That is, as many 'addicts' I could spend some money just thinking that it should be a good decision (or at least this would satisfy my cravings). In this case - it is ~100$, but not $273.

Iâ€™ve just ordered SM Pro Audio M-Patch 2 and M-Audio BX8A Deluxe speakers to try how they will work together in my setup. The place offers 30days money back guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the purchase â€" you get full refund and donâ€™t even have to pay for the shipment back. Thatâ€™s what I call service. Hope Auzentech would move in such direction at least to some degree.

Soloz2, any other options you could suggest?

Regards


----------



## soloz2

PM me and I can buy an op-amp and ship to you, cover my costs and save some $$$

Please fill out your sig rig


----------



## TFL Replica

I thought the X-FI Fatal1ty Pro had the same components as the xtrememusic, can anyone clarify this?


----------



## huxley

Hi all,

I just modded my Xtrememusic with LM4562 on the Front Channels and the rest have LME49720MA, but I've ran into a problem. The Rear Left speaker's volume is drastically too low, however when i use headphones and turn the volume on the creative volpanel to 100% i can hear the test noise, but it's still too low to hear. All other channels play fine.

I'm not 100% sure what's causing this, but a faulty opamp comes to mind (I've triple checked my solder joints) but I can't find the picture on this thread or the one on head-fi that tells me which opamp corresponds to the rear channels.

Can someone tell me which opamp is for the rear channels... or if anyone knows what's causing my rear-left channel to have a really volume suggest some answers please.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mayafree

Dear Soloz2,

I would like to finish my X-fi Extreme Music and because I don't have anybody else in this field to trust, I beg you to answer my last 4 questions and I won't bother you again with my childish questions.

1., What my friend replaced badly that IC is ST Microelectronics L79L05A negative fixed voltage regulator. On Farnell's site I found the original ST L79L05ACD smd IC but ST said they don't recommend for new design and farnell offers as an alternative On Semiconductor's MC79L05ACDG. The specs are exactly the same, which one do you suggest?

2., Some capacitors around the front channel and down at the voltage regulator has burned a little bit. I wrote down all the capacitors numbers these are:

4,7uF 16V
10uf 16V
22uF 16V
100uF 16V
22uf 25V

There are no quality 4,7uF 16V capacitors just
a., 4,7uF 25V
b., 10uF 16V
c., noname 4,7uF 16V capacitors
Which one do you suggest?

3., I found, Panasonic said "audio grade" capacitors series AM, AD, AK at this little values 10uF, 22 uF. Specs are nearly the same. Which one do you offer?

4., And in the beginning of this forum they offer C46 +5vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 330uf @ 16 or 25vdc (original is 100uF 16V)
and C72 -5vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 68uf @ 16 or 25vdc (original is 22uF 16V)
Is it useful or what would you offer instead?

Please let me finish this card and help me with your knowledge!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## soloz2

from the sounds of it your friend fubared your card and I don't think I'd waste replacing parts on the creative card because it has a poor pcb that is hard to work with and there is no guarantee that you will be able to salvage it. I would say cut your losses and use the money you would spend for new parts on a new card. Make your friend chip in.

if you feel you have to continue down this path then get the same part as was originally on the card and get the best caps you can find that will still fit on the card. I used some nichicon caps I believe fk series.

This is why I have said from the beginning if you do not know what you are doing then do not try this mod. I do not recommend anyone do this mod anyway. Here are my reasons:

1. the auzentech prelude sounds just as good if not better than a modded xtrememusic
2. the auzentech prelude has a better pcb layout and uses higher quality parts.
3. the prelude will have a warranty and socketed op-amps
4. the prelude has better drivers and is a more capable card
5. by the time you purchase an x-fi, purchase the parts and pay a buddy a few $$ to mod the card you've spent just as much or more than a prelude would have cost you.

Bottom line. ever since the prelude came out I have not modded a single x-fi. This mod has been deserted by most of the original proponents.

Also, do to my above reasons I will not offer any more technical support or advise for those who want to do this mod or those who screw it up.


----------



## 64bit

i have xfi extreme music sound card,my card not work correct,in Creative Mode Switcher i switch to entertainment mode my system hang,on other modes not hang but sound gone after 2 hour.

please help me


----------



## Sparhawk

not exactly the right place for this question.

but it would make it easier if you provided some more information. 
Most helpful would be filling out your system specs.


----------



## 64bit

Dear Soloz2

in my country(pakistan),LM4562 not available,please ref me other good op-amp .


----------



## 64bit

any one please help me

in my country(pakistan),LM4562 not available,please ref me other good op-amp.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *64bit* 
i have xfi extreme music sound card,my card not work correct,in Creative Mode Switcher i switch to entertainment mode my system hang,on other modes not hang but sound gone after 2 hour.

please help me














































Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sparhawk* 
not exactly the right place for this question.

but it would make it easier if you provided some more information.
Most helpful would be filling out your system specs.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *64bit* 
Dear Soloz2

in my country(pakistan),LM4562 not available,please ref me other good op-amp .


Quote:


Originally Posted by *64bit* 
any one please help me

in my country(pakistan),LM4562 not available,please ref me other good op-amp.

you asked your question already...

You were asked to fill out your rig specs and give more information.

You failed to comply. Please fill out your rig specs in the user cp and provide more information on your problem.

Finally, you can use whatever op-amp you want to use as long as you check the specs and pinout are a suitable match. Good luck.


----------



## iDShaDoW

Hi, I'm new here, can't believe I read through all 88 pages of this but I actually did... had to take a nap break in the middle but I got it done when I should be studying for my exam on Tuesday lol.

Have a few questions though.

You said that you no longer recommend this mod due to possible sound card damage, the release of the Auzen, and cost/benefit, bad PCB construction on Creative Lab's side, etc.

-If I were to get my hands on a X-Fi Elite Pro for about $70, would it still be a feasible decision (price-wise of the $70 on top of the different capacitors etc.) to mod it to make it comparable or better than an Auzentech Prelude? Apparently the X-Fi Elite uses some better components already (though some still can be replaced) as well as a better PCB.

Parts to get:
5x LM4562MA-ND (~$11.00)
1x Blackgate 1000uF 16v 16x25 STD Series (~$5 not including shipping)

Now here's where I'm a bit confused. In the first page post they recommend:

SB0550: (Elite, Pro)
a) coupling caps, (Front: C45, C58, C35, C49)
b) C104, C133 +/-12vdc supply to opamps: Panasonic FM or FC, 330uf @ 16 or 25vdc
c) C55 +5vdc Va supply to DACs: Panasonic FM or FC, 68uf @ 16 or 25vdc
d) C6 +5vdc Va to AK5394 ADC: Kemet 22uf TANT @ 25vdc

A) What kind of coupling caps would you recommend? If you could give as much information like brand, uF, voltage, series, etc. that would be nice so I could pin-point the exact cap on Digi-Key. (Hopefully ones that Digi-Key sells as well so I can order from as few vendors as possible to save on shipping costs)

B & C) Which would you recommend? FM or FC and 16 or 25vdc? The post doesn't really explain the differences between choosing between those.

D) I couldn't locate the specific Kemet Tantalum capacitor on Digi-Key either. Any idea on this?

Sorry for the overly long post. Thanks for any help you can provide. I'm getting my Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Ultra's in the mail next week and would like to order a sound card to replace my SB Live! Value as soon as possible.

On the odd chance that you might happen to have all these different pieces lyin around without any use that you'd be willing to sell as a sort of mod kit that would be even nicer.









Oh and one last thing, I guess capacitor size matters too so it looks nice and neat after it's all done sort of like how it did before the mods were done. I'm sure that other guys mod works great but those capacitors are all over, looks like some frankenstein stuff goin on.


----------



## Lord Xeb

This is awesome! +1 for you and also, I do not have the balls to do attempt any of this since I did the pencil mod to my GPU... which overloaded my PSU and fried it (which took my M/B and proc).


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lord Xeb* 
This is awesome! +1 for you and also, I do not have the balls to do attempt any of this since I did the pencil mod to my GPU... which overloaded my PSU and fried it (which took my M/B and proc).

lolwut?

A pencil mod to the GPU fried your corsair 650w PSU? If that's true, yeah i'd probably stay away from modding my sound card too lol.


----------



## Jrice00

On the carpet?!


----------



## sunny_9d

@ 64-bit
for ur info LM4562, LME49720 and LME79860 are the same (or atleast similar).
keep trying mate, its hard to get few pieces of such ICs in India too!


----------



## silvia007

Nvm


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

You said "Extreme Music X-FI" in the list but I was not able to find an ExtremeMusic, only found Extreme Audio, is that the same thing?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AMABFKCUO* 
You said "Extreme Music X-FI" in the list but I was not able to find an ExtremeMusic, only found Extreme Audio, is that the same thing?

The Xtreme Audio isn't even a real X-fi. There's an xtreme music, but it's not sold in stores like newegg. You have to look around for them.

http://us.creative.com/products/prod...&product=14066


----------



## Le_Loup

I had the extreme music, sold to a church, got the fatality, sold to a roommate (as i've switched to laptop with the xtreme audio express card with optical surround sound out / analog mic in).

- Le_Loup


----------



## mtoc

I had to get the Xi-Fi Elite Pro because I want to use my PC as a home theater receiver and this card is the only one that decodes 7.1 through the SPDIF input. Since this card was released, licensing no longer permits such decoding in any other cards. So unless I use this card, there will never be another way to use my PC as a home theater receiver that can decode 7.1 through the SPDIF input.

So now that I'm stuck with this card, who on this forum can I send it to have it modded? I have a hi-end system that needs the best preamp I can manage from this card and I would like to work with someone that has a lot of direct experience modding this particular card.


----------



## Firestorm252

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtoc* 
I had to get the Xi-Fi Elite Pro because I want to use my PC as a home theater receiver and this card is the only one that decodes 7.1 through the SPDIF input. Since this card was released, licensing no longer permits such decoding in any other cards. So unless I use this card, there will never be another way to use my PC as a home theater receiver that can decode 7.1 through the SPDIF input.

So now that I'm stuck with this card, who on this forum can I send it to have it modded? I have a hi-end system that needs the best preamp I can manage from this card and I would like to work with someone that has a lot of direct experience modding this particular card.

you may have better luck over at headfi.org, but xfi modding has definitely dropped off.
if i remember correctly soloz2, one of the audio editors, used to do the mod on any of the xfi series, but stopped once the auzentech and xonar cards started coming out. which is, from what i read, what a number of other xfi modders have done as well.


----------



## mtoc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Firestorm252* 
you may have better luck over at headfi.org, but xfi modding has definitely dropped off.
if i remember correctly soloz2, one of the audio editors, used to do the mod on any of the xfi series, but stopped once the auzentech and xonar cards started coming out. which is, from what i read, what a number of other xfi modders have done as well.

Thanks for the helpful info. Now I'm wondering, for sound quality, would I be better off with a digital connection to a surround receiver, something like a NAD T755? I would only use the preamp out from it since I'm using a dedicated NAD T975 7 channel amp, and I may use three of the T755's amp channels to bi-amp my 3 front speakers.


----------



## norbi_nw

if soloz2 cam help me with this... or any other member who knows:
Instead of shorting the decoupling caps I replace them with higher quality audio-grade caps. Any cap in the audio path will degrade SQ, but I chose to do this for 2 reasons. 1. upgrading will yeild better SQ then stock and 2. keeping the caps there helps protect against DC offset.
With what should i replace them? model number or specs plz.. (specs preferred) thank you


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *norbi_nw* 
if soloz2 cam help me with this... or any other member who knows:
Instead of shorting the decoupling caps I replace them with higher quality audio-grade caps. Any cap in the audio path will degrade SQ, but I chose to do this for 2 reasons. 1. upgrading will yeild better SQ then stock and 2. keeping the caps there helps protect against DC offset.
With what should i replace them? model number or specs plz.. (specs preferred) thank you

if you read through the thread this is been discussed previously.

I don't recommend these mods anymore, in fact I recommend not performing the mods because newer cards have come out that are just as good for gaming and the SQ is about on par with a modded card, therefore making it unnecessary to mod a card and chance ruining it. Better to have a card that is just as good with warranty. IMO


----------



## 69BBNova

Hi soloz2

Ive read the first 250-300 posts then I jumped to some of the last posts knowing this may not be a viable alternative any longer (except for the DIY aspect), but I did enjoy reading this thread.

I found my extrememusic in my box-o-parts 2 days ago, didnt even know I had it.

Anyway thanks for the good read


----------



## tipsycoma

Will this mod work on an OEM (non-low profile version) XtremeGamer?


----------



## norbi_nw

so what do you recomend me? aside the Auzen X-fi... thats expensive.. Something that is good for gaming and music. list a few (in rank if u know some







) thanks


----------



## soloz2

Yeah, I'd recommend the Auzen Prelude. Sounds on par with a modded XtremeMusic, and costs about the same as an XtremeMusic + parts.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tipsycoma*


Will this mod work on an OEM (non-low profile version) XtremeGamer?


I'm pretty sure it will, given the use of similar board layouts and the same opamp package size. However, the last time I checked, the 2200uF 16V Black Gate is out of production so they may be hard to find.


----------



## Aquaman78

I hate to be the one beating around on a dead horse but this thread caught my attention when I was googling information on tweaking my X-Fi. After reading pages and pages of posts here, I figured I'd post a question or 2. First off, soloz, have you managed to find a way of modding the low profile XtremeGamer? I picked one up for the sweet price of 50 bucks the other day and figured it was worth the cost considering it replaced my onboard Realtek sound. 
So, the Azune Prelude puts out the same SQ as a modded X-Fi?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aquaman78*


I hate to be the one beating around on a dead horse but this thread caught my attention when I was googling information on tweaking my X-Fi. After reading pages and pages of posts here, I figured I'd post a question or 2. First off, soloz, have you managed to find a way of modding the low profile XtremeGamer? I picked one up for the sweet price of 50 bucks the other day and figured it was worth the cost considering it replaced my onboard Realtek sound. 
So, the Azune Prelude puts out the same SQ as a modded X-Fi?


a little better, dont' bother modding... not worth the risk


----------



## razor999

hi
I wonder if anyone has tried to update the bios of the x-fi.

removing the IC csi 24c32w that is where epromm memory is stored

I have 2 x-fi soundcard with IRQ problem but I canÂ´t send to creative...i donÂ´t live in USA


----------



## pwtil

Hi there, does anyone know which OPAMP is guilty of the output for the center speaker for a 5.1 channel speaker output? I am using the creative x-fi elite pro SB0550.

I've modded all the OP amps to the LM4562 and realised that the center speaker now is really soft. Almost non-existent.

Can anyone point out the op amp that drives the center output? Is it the center of the 3 op amps that are in line with each other? I know it's one of the 3 because they are the surround amps. Just have no idea which. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Thedark1337

I have an Auzentech HTHD, is there any good mods that i could do for sound quality or is it already good enough?


----------



## Sparhawk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pwtil*


Hi there, does anyone know which OPAMP is guilty of the output for the center speaker for a 5.1 channel speaker output? I am using the creative x-fi elite pro SB0550.

I've modded all the OP amps to the LM4562 and realized that the center speaker now is really soft. Almost non-existent.

Can anyone point out the op amp that drives the center output? Is it the center of the 3 op amps that are in line with each other? I know it's one of the 3 because they are the surround amps. Just have no idea which. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Of the three in line opamps, one does RL/RR, one does SL/SR and one does Sub/Ctr. I would imagine they are placed in order of their relative positions on the backplate. But I'm not 100% sure.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thedark1337*


I have an Auzentech HTHD, is there any good mods that i could do for sound quality or is it already good enough?


It is pretty good from the start but you could probably swap the Front L/R opamp for something a bit better if you really think it's necessary. Any other mods will be fairly involved and may not yield very much, if any, improvement.


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


this one in particular is actually supposed to support all game sound processing...

I got a sheet of ERS paper, wish we could have done a little group buy, prices were annoyingly set so I would have a very hard time picking which way to go. Four of use buying together would have saved us a bundle.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/accessories.html


Instead of spending the money for ERS paper, could the anti static bag does the same job? If you put any electronic device in the bag, for example a cell phone, no signal is found. Thus this could be b/c it shields everything. 
What do you guys think?

Thanks,


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d3daiM*


Wait..what are you using the nichicons for? I thought you had a choice of replacing the power filter capacitor with either a blackgate (best choice) or a nichicon?


I would think any brand that is use for audio application would be better than the one already on there.


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USlatin*


Like silver cables? lol!!! that's insane! but I want one really bad!









BTW:

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet emoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootion (Aerosmith)

This thing made my Logitech 5.1 speakers sound like real speakers! I can-not-wait to hear how a home entertainment set or better will sound!!!!!
I can now hear not only the guitars and base clearly defined, but it has become easy to hear the different multiple tracks within each instrument.


If you add some tweeters to the Logitech Z5500, it sounds even better. I use the anti static bag to shield my card all around.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bad_Dude*


If you add some tweeters to the Logitech Z5500, it sounds even better. I use the anti static bag to shield my card all around.


That won't improve them much. Still small midrange drivers in plastic enclosures with a crappy quality sub.


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
That won't improve them much. Still small midrange drivers in plastic enclosures with a crappy quality sub.

Actually, it does improve to its limitation. The highs are mostly there where as before I cannot hear them. Not much else you can do with these other than go wild with the capacitors mod which I have the capacitors but have not done it yet. I might mod the oamp on the controller. But it takes time and which I don't have right now.


----------



## Bad_Dude

How is this modded card, which I have compares to the Asus Xonar DS card in terms of analog out for music? Any one tested them together?

Thanks,


----------



## rollemup

Hi,

Someone mentioned using a product named Pro Gold to clean PCI contacts.

"Enhance your electronics.
This kit contains both DeoxIT Power Booster and ProGold Connector Enhancer sprays from Caig Laboratories to help improve the performance of your electrical devices.

Cleans any metal-to-metal contact to improve conductivity and reduce further oxidation
ProGold Connector Enhancer works on gold connections to improve conductivity and prevent oxidation
Both products have mini-spray applicators to make them easier to use
Used and recommended by Monster CablesÂ®"

The funny thing about gold contacts and one of the main points in having them is that gold doesn't oxidize. It will however tarnish with a coat of expected pollutants surrounding it like tobbaco /dust.

If the contacts are at all good you'll have an oxygene free connection between pin and trace but the tarnish may get in the way of that so the most you should ever need is a little high purity alcohol like methyl hydrate and wipe the tar off it, and it'll shine like new.

Not sure I've ever hard of a soundcard with gold plated traces though but even typical copper traces can use a cleaning.

You could probably hit the pins n the PCI slot with a fine art paintbrush dipped into the alcohol and just give it enough time for any drops to evaporate but if it's caked right over it'll need a bath.

About removing op amps if the copper bonding is so cheap that they can't reliably be soldered I sure wouldn't trust it to endure removal of the op amps by cutting the SMD legs off them as you're always going to create uneeded stress on it that way.

What you can do is use a high quality iron and one that delivers enough of and the right amount of heat quickly, so that it heats the joint to melting, before the heat is absorbed to saturation by the surrounding traces and components. One indication of too weak a heat source is melting traces like that and when joint seems harder to solder it's around big electrolytic caps that are just rolled elements of AL foil so they're great heatsoaks and also "good" quality boards with full ground planes that are also highly desirable for every reason and good heat soaks.

The hardest joint to solder will be an intersection of the two, a large electrolytic and a healthy ground plane soaks away a lot of heat quickly, so it takes the right tools and skills to get it done right. Use an additional cheap iron for extra heat if you have to.

Per removal of the SMD op amps a few tricks and tools can help here as well, and the tools can be home made. What you want is to be on and off the joints quickly for minimal thermal strain and also while applying the least physical strain and that way the pads stay put but it also leaves you with a reusable component.

All you need is a bit of a heat plate to serve as a heat runner to extend the heat from the tip of the iron across all the leads of one side of the op amp, or even both at once like I do.

You can use a piece of thin solide core wire cut to size and placed across the leads of one side, lace the solder to it quickly and use enough to flood it completely, it'll travel across the wire as flood guide and you'll be able to pry up on the side. You clearly get the least strain doing both sides at once, be creative in bending or use two irons and pick it up like tweezers.

Practice that once or twice on some scrap parts and you'll see how easily and quickly it can be done so that when it counts you won't be on the part for an hour trying not to be on it. You can clean up the board and component alike for reuse with a little solder braid.


----------



## linkin93

Can i do this on my lowly X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI-E? Here's a picture of the card if it helps:










Apparently my card is a "software" x-fi, is this true? By the way guys i am an audiophile-in-training. hence the soundcard over onboard in the first place lol.


----------



## rollemup

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bad_Dude*


Instead of spending the money for ERS paper, could the anti static bag does the same job? If you put any electronic device in the bag, for example a cell phone, no signal is found. Thus this could be b/c it shields everything. 
What do you guys think?

Thanks,


If you believe in how the ERS paper works as a technology even if it still served as a shield it wouldn't do the same job.

Cell phones have a certain frequency range of interest that by nature is likely easy enough to shield from while say a neighbouring video card presents another set of issues at also maybe different power levels, and blocking reception isn't the same task as say the noise from the onboard regulators and amplifiers.

The idea of the chaotic fiber lay in the paper is that it randomizes the intercepted frequencies, and thusly information they contain.

There's nothing however stopping it from saturating and transmitting or reflecting as it's clearly a high impedance type shield so it's of limited use in itself and is probably better intended for a layered type shield to put its' scattering ability to work in minimizing reflections, so it's not that the paper is useless but the misuse of it might not have the expected effect.

Charge potential on it building up or modulated by noise of any source isn't prevented from coupling electrically, via static capacitive charge displacement means and it'll do it uncontrolled via the paper isolator and height/distance relation to the conductive areas of the various onboard components and planes.

The best use of it would be to use some conductive foil tape to direct the current flow inherent to these charges and direct them away into a low Z groundplane, closest to and directly at the ground connections of the PCI in order to avoid loops of any great area which could even transmit across the ground plane.

Best would be extending the foil shield fully and have it bonded at multiple points clear across the area of the soundcard, perhaps even wtih bypass caps from it to the ground plane near sources of interest.

That extent is however all an excerise in diminished returns because if you use a conventional soundcard for instance noise conducted from the power and ground rails are virtually what the card uses almost directly and typically only ever with marginal onboard regulation and sparse filtration so the noise is going to drive a transport through the frontdoor while you're worrying about the crickets entering the rear windows.

You'd probably see a truer improvement by locating the DSP chip power source and getting a 100uF or 220uF small form factor electrolytic to sit stably directly across it and use low components that wont' greatly respond to the constant mecanical vibration inside a case or also be excited mecanically by poorly regulated, noisy rails

.


----------



## Willhemmens

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


Can i do this on my lowly X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI-E? Here's a picture of the card if it helps:










Apparently my card is a "software" x-fi, is this true? By the way guys i am an audiophile-in-training. hence the soundcard over onboard in the first place lol.


I have one too, they are alright. I like mine because its twice as powerful as my onboard. I only bought this card because the onboard broke on a previous MOBO. These cards are on the CARDS THAT SHOULD BE AVOIDED list so I wouldnt expect too much can be done for them.


----------



## linkin93

Really? Are you sure? Could i at least use the ERS paper because my GPU is right on top of my sound card... stupud motherboard layout, honestly.


----------



## rollemup

If your cards are good they'll each at least have a ground plane and especially the video cards have a farm of ultra low Z solide polymer electrolytics that are effective well into the MHz region.

Whatever noise that does get out will be absorbed by the ground planes and local bypassing, including the capacitive decoupling nature of the ground planes themselves into the VHF range.

If the power planes and decoupling sucks and causes inteference between video card and PCI slot you might have issues but I've never seen it matter.

What matters more is a quality motherboard with great onboard power distribution and a low noise design which something like the long life line from gigabyte provides and almost any silver plus rated supply that's rated for say double the max you'd ever need which are easy enough to come by now with active PFC and good input filtering too.

If you want to get your fingers dirty and just hack into it inspect the card for it's onboard power rail input filtering and regulators, if any. See what's there and see if and how it can be improved on. You can only drop so much voltage, likely very little, but a stage or two of RC filtering pre regulator can be exactly what's missing as cheap onboard regulators, if any, will pass the HF noise capacitively.

Slap some high quality bypassing across whaver else it be that matters, and calls it a night.

BTW, the ground plane of your soundcard probably faces the GPU so ti's shielded by so.


----------



## soloz2

you can use ERS paper on the back of any sound or video card. You will need to use an insulator as ERS is conductive.


----------



## rollemup

There's no use using it on the back of any soundcard given that I've never seen one that lacked a full ground plane, and there's no use in shielding a shield with a less ideal shield that's left to float, making a nice noise receptor and reflector, further free to couple said noise capacitively into the very thing it's intended to shield, since as you say, it's a conductor, seperated by an isolator, from another conductive plate, fitting the definition of a capacitor.

You're still every bit as reliant on the ground plane and decoupling as conduction over I/O and rails is the other form of ingress, so you're better off concentrating on optimizing those avenues and improved overall noise rejection results and it also helps keep noise on the plane controlled and low.

To be perfectly honest employing the ERS paper, as is only seen in audiophile tweaks in a true follow the leader fashion, employs the identical theory as found in the patented audiophile Shakti stone. The upside to it is that the paper is two orders of magnitude cheaper than a Shakti stone, and actually serves a purpose if properly used.

The true intended use of the ERS paper is more as an enclosure lining to absorb, scatter and diffuse energy within a high frequency range or help seal cracks. The range the paper is effective at absorbing a portion of the noise energy is going to be fully covered by the low Z ground plane effectiveness at those same frequencies and more, while doing so more effectively. Frequencies for which the paper is effective will easily reflect all around the paper. It won't do any harm other than cooling and noise coupling but it sure won't do much good.


----------



## rollemup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linkin93* 
Can i do this on my lowly X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI-E? Here's a picture of the card if it helps:










Apparently my card is a "software" x-fi, is this true? By the way guys i am an audiophile-in-training. hence the soundcard over onboard in the first place lol.

Your money is best spent on a higher quality card to begin with. For a few hundred bucks you can get some half decent.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rollemup* 
There's no use using it on the back of any soundcard given that I've never seen one that lacked a full ground plane, and there's no use in shielding a shield with a less ideal shield that's left to float, making a nice noise receptor and reflector, further free to couple said noise capacitively into the very thing it's intended to shield, since as you say, it's a conductor, seperated by an isolator, from another conductive plate, fitting the definition of a capacitor.

You're still every bit as reliant on the ground plane and decoupling as conduction over I/O and rails is the other form of ingress, so you're better off concentrating on optimizing those avenues and improved overall noise rejection results and it also helps keep noise on the plane controlled and low.

To be perfectly honest employing the ERS paper, as is only seen in audiophile tweaks in a true follow the leader fashion, employs the identical theory as found in the patented audiophile Shakti stone. The upside to it is that the paper is two orders of magnitude cheaper than a Shakti stone, and actually serves a purpose if properly used.

The true intended use of the ERS paper is more as an enclosure lining to absorb, scatter and diffuse energy within a high frequency range or help seal cracks. The range the paper is effective at absorbing a portion of the noise energy is going to be fully covered by the low Z ground plane effectiveness at those same frequencies and more, while doing so more effectively. Frequencies for which the paper is effective will easily reflect all around the paper. It won't do any harm other than cooling and noise coupling but it sure won't do much good.

Actually, if installed properly ERS paper is grounded. And mass loading can be beneficial, no magic rocks needed. Your attitude is more of a problem than any so called "magic" bs. Sometimes even in 'science' things just happen that cannot be explained or are extremely difficult to explain, the same is true with many audio tweaks. Sometimes they just work.

Don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to most of the crap and when audiophile companies


----------



## Bad_Dude

Here's a new software package that would sure be beneficial to all Modded Xtreme Music Owner.
http://forums.creative.com/t5/Sound-...22/td-p/554563


----------



## Bad_Dude

I found some Nichicon 1000uF, but with 63V instead of 16V, will this work on the mod? Right now I have a light green Nichicon but standard capacitor and not audio grade.

Thanks,


----------



## rollemup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
Actually, if installed properly ERS paper is grounded. And mass loading can be beneficial, no magic rocks needed. Your attitude is more of a problem than any so called "magic" bs. Sometimes even in 'science' things just happen that cannot be explained or are extremely difficult to explain, the same is true with many audio tweaks. Sometimes they just work.

Don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to most of the crap and when audiophile companies

Mass loading is other boogaboo phenomenon that has very little to do with the matters supposedly delt with by either ERS paper misuse or Shakti Stones, which are specific in their intentions, but if you were talking speaker construction I'd entertain it.

"Science" is simply a methodical means of going about furthering understanding. That "your" science can't explain what you "think" you perceive, is indicative of a failure of your science or perceptions.

In reality things happen, and even if complex and difficult to grasp, it doesn't also make them unexplainable, nor unprovable, neither does it somehow render the unexplainable or unprovable a reality of science.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rollemup* 
Mass loading is other boogaboo phenomenon that has very little to do with the matters supposedly delt with by either ERS paper misuse or Shakti Stones, which are specific in their intentions, but if you were talking speaker construction I'd entertain it.

"Science" is simply a methodical means of going about furthering understanding. That "your" science can't explain what you "think" you perceive, is indicative of a failure of your science or perceptions.

In reality things happen, and even if complex and difficult to grasp, it doesn't also make them unexplainable, nor unprovable, neither does it somehow render the unexplainable or unprovable a reality of science.

You forget that some things can't always be explained with 'modern' science. Look at history and you will see numerous examples of how things were first observed and then later explained. Just because you refuse to see the benefits (or cannot sense them) of a tweak does not mean they are not there.

This discussion is over. The thread is a how-to perform tweaks and not about justification or proof.


----------



## rollemup

Why assert I'd have forgotten such a thing? Again science is just a method of going about explaining something, like why it can't work. It can also be tricky to make the distinction between a difference and an improvement. Least and diminished returns further applies.

This area is also a described science that's seen as a black art to most. You'd probably get better results with that stuff lining the sides the of the case as vibration damping..erm, loading? Remember they recommend for higher effectiveness to have layers, thickness counts.


----------



## Bad_Dude

What is the value on those small caps?
Thanks,


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bad_Dude*


What is the value on those small caps?
Thanks,


If you have a card yell us... The values remain te same as stock. Or you can search this thread. As stated numerous times this mod is not recommended and there are new cards how that perform better than modified X-Fis.


----------



## rollemup

You can still learn a lot by swapping caps around in an old card and certainly improve on the performance that's there. If you concentrate on areas of concern where a real improvement can be had there's going to be very little difference on a new card besides drivers and the lessons learnt will carry over.


----------



## Bad_Dude

I just mod another of these Xtreme Music card without the heatsink with the op Amp LME49860MA. The quality is about the same but the mid is a little warmer than the LM4562MA. The LM4562MA has more prominent highs. 
I used both cards with the 1000uF/16V Nichicon Muse KZ caps.
My next mod will be with the LME49720MA.
Has any one tried these two new op Amps?
Thanks,


----------



## rollemup

LME49860MA is the wrong op amp for this application given that you're unlikely to ever use it optimally powered, which will decrease it's performance. The LM4562 is the better choice for it will operate better as a direct replacement since it will be more optimally powered.

Given equal optimization, and probably an almost identical internal design, these op amps should end up sounding identical, so it is somewhat futile swapping them about looking for the ideal when the outcome produced is more in part due to the detail in their surroundings. You're hearing the Muse KZ more than anything else... are you sure that's what you want to be hearing?

Your next mod is a waste of time because the LME49720MA is exactly the LM4562, despite what some said about it sounding different. The only difference is the # printed on it when they renamed it to make part of a series. National has confirmed there's no changes or other differences and it is the same chip. If you should swap it and actually hear a difference, it's because for one thing they do take a little burn in time depending how you implement it, up to several hours and at least one hour, before it starts to sound cohesive and the mids fill out. Or you're looking at variations in solder quality, which are probably greater than variations in manufacturing of the IC itself, and certainly bypass cap tolerance and quality.

As per changing the overal sonic characteristics of the device itself they're locked in stone by the DAC and it's support circuitry. You can swap from a 5532 to an LM4562 and despite miner variation it will stay essentially the same, provided each was optimized for the op amp and there wasnt' some pre existing issue with the implementation of it.

One of the best reasons to use something like the lm4562 is it's a dirt cheap way of greatly improving what was there simply with a swap. You can't generally do it and reap benefits if it's limited by bypassing, like a large Muse would do.

What you're looking to improve on realistically are things like DC offset/drift, poor accuracy/weak slew rates etc. An op amp like the LM4562 allows direct differential DC coupling from the DAC and DC coupled at the output as well directly feeding the input of a power amp without additional low grade or even high grade coupling caps.

If you just keep swapping op amps I wouldn't expect much, try messing with the DAC as well.


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rollemup* 
LME49860MA is the wrong op amp for this application given that you're unlikely to ever use it optimally powered, which will decrease it's performance. The LM4562 is the better choice for it will operate better as a direct replacement since it will be more optimally powered.

Given equal optimization, and probably an almost identical internal design, these op amps should end up sounding identical, so it is somewhat futile swapping them about looking for the ideal when the outcome produced is more in part due to the detail in their surroundings. You're hearing the Muse KZ more than anything else... are you sure that's what you want to be hearing?

Your next mod is a waste of time because the LME49720MA is exactly the LM4562, despite what some said about it sounding different. The only difference is the # printed on it when they renamed it to make part of a series. National has confirmed there's no changes or other differences and it is the same chip. If you should swap it and actually hear a difference, it's because for one thing they do take a little burn in time depending how you implement it, up to several hours and at least one hour, before it starts to sound cohesive and the mids fill out. Or you're looking at variations in solder quality, which are probably greater than variations in manufacturing of the IC itself, and certainly bypass cap tolerance and quality.

As per changing the overal sonic characteristics of the device itself they're locked in stone by the DAC and it's support circuitry. You can swap from a 5532 to an LM4562 and despite miner variation it will stay essentially the same, provided each was optimized for the op amp and there wasnt' some pre existing issue with the implementation of it.

One of the best reasons to use something like the lm4562 is it's a dirt cheap way of greatly improving what was there simply with a swap. You can't generally do it and reap benefits if it's limited by bypassing, like a large Muse would do.

What you're looking to improve on realistically are things like DC offset/drift, poor accuracy/weak slew rates etc. An op amp like the LM4562 allows direct differential DC coupling from the DAC and DC coupled at the output as well directly feeding the input of a power amp without additional low grade or even high grade coupling caps.

If you just keep swapping op amps I wouldn't expect much, try messing with the DAC as well.


Thanks for the information. What do you think of the AD8599 op-amp? I heard many said that these are better than the LM4562.
What about changing out those small caps, will that help the analog sound quality?
Thanks,


----------



## rollemup

I haven't tried it myself but unless they're discussing their own flawed subjective preferences pertaining to their having decided it's "better than", and considering most of them can listen to identical op amps (LM4562 Vs Renamed LM4562) and swear that one is improved over the other, I really put no faith whatsoever in such statements.

If you look at the specs and measurements I think it's safe to say it stands no chance playing in the same field as the LM4562, but if you haven't a clue how to implement such a thing optimally, you're going to run into serious problems with bypassing with the higher bandwidth LM4562 and variants before you will with one that has 1/5 that power bandwidth. That alone will likely account for the most significant difference both in sound and in use.

Looking at the measurements again I"m a little concerned with the uglyness in graphs for gain and phase which look nearly chaotic, particularly in phase, and particularly throughout the audioband. Perhaps an artifact of some distortion cancellation scheme? However the same dirt appears in all graphs across that range, from PSRR to CMRR.

LM4562 should walk all over this, but it's going to come down to your implementation of it, and if you do them both appropiately it will again just end up sounding like the DAC with very little in between.

In terms of changing out small caps I have no idea which ones you mean, but in terms of what's generally used by manufacturers and their intrinsic flaws, as to what's actually available for use to swap with? There is some risk envolved, you could make it worse, but if you use the right parts, it can help improve the quality in output from the DAC considerably.

You have to start looking at the whole as a system though. While those "little caps" are probably a weak area well worth singling out, do not neglect how they interract with their surroundings. Some, in fact, are going to matter a lot more than others depending where they were used. This is why it's a great idea to practice on a cheap card though. You'll get experience out of this that will be transferable to every other card or or commercial audio gear.


----------



## Bad_Dude

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rollemup* 
I haven't tried it myself but unless they're discussing their own flawed subjective preferences pertaining to their having decided it's "better than", and considering most of them can listen to identical op amps (LM4562 Vs Renamed LM4562) and swear that one is improved over the other, I really put no faith whatsoever in such statements.

If you look at the specs and measurements I think it's safe to say it stands no chance playing in the same field as the LM4562, but if you haven't a clue how to implement such a thing optimally, you're going to run into serious problems with bypassing with the higher bandwidth LM4562 and variants before you will with one that has 1/5 that power bandwidth. That alone will likely account for the most significant difference both in sound and in use.

Looking at the measurements again I"m a little concerned with the uglyness in graphs for gain and phase which look nearly chaotic, particularly in phase, and particularly throughout the audioband. Perhaps an artifact of some distortion cancellation scheme? However the same dirt appears in all graphs across that range, from PSRR to CMRR.

LM4562 should walk all over this, but it's going to come down to your implementation of it, and if you do them both appropiately it will again just end up sounding like the DAC with very little in between.

In terms of changing out small caps I have no idea which ones you mean, but in terms of what's generally used by manufacturers and their intrinsic flaws, as to what's actually available for use to swap with? There is some risk envolved, you could make it worse, but if you use the right parts, it can help improve the quality in output from the DAC considerably.

You have to start looking at the whole as a system though. While those "little caps" are probably a weak area well worth singling out, do not neglect how they interract with their surroundings. Some, in fact, are going to matter a lot more than others depending where they were used. This is why it's a great idea to practice on a cheap card though. You'll get experience out of this that will be transferable to every other card or or commercial audio gear.

Is there a guide to this card as to which cap changes matter to sound quality?
Thanks.


----------



## rollemup

Probably not, but sound electronics are not limited to sound cards, skills and techniques are transferable, so get a handfull of parts that you think are worthwhile, and look at all the areas of potential concern like pre and aft regulator bypassing/decoupling, voltage reference nodes, all power rails and I/O, and have at it one change at a time.

EDIT:

Meh, I shouldn't downplay the difficulty in the challenge so much. It's quite insane when you begin, every change equates to a difference and not every difference is an improvement, but one tends to take them as such. It's how you end up with a mountain of recommendations on forums that dont' make any sense. You really do have to try it yourself and get to know what works and what doesn't, it's a lot of very time consuming work, but if you want to learn a craft it's possible.


----------



## Zax

Hi. would a cheap rubycon cap be a good replacement to my orginal 220uF jamicon. If so what option might be the best between zl/zlh ->1000/2200uF? Thanks for answers.


----------



## rollemup

I take it this is for the input of the card? You don't necessarily want a physically large cap, or even in capiticance value. Look up their respective datasheets and compare their sizes and other pertinant specifications like ESR/Z and ripple.

It's common to be restricted with what you can actually get your hands on as well.

They are cheaply priced anyway, so you can try a few different sizes, like 220, 470, 680, and 1000uF... but base it on a value that maintains the proper lead spacing as what the board is made for.

It's a far better cap, so you'll be able to go up several values while keeping about the same physical size.

Those are said to be quite good caps for audio though, which you need to take with a giant grain of salt, but you're not really using themf or audio here so much as you are line filtering, which is more what they're intended for. They'll be a lot better than what you've got now.


----------



## Zax

Id try it, its for the dac supply. Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## rollemup

Which DAC supply, there's likely several and they can react differenctly. Depending which it is you might even be better off with a slightly smaller ZL cap to maintain proportionality with the impedance curve of it. You probably really don't want the fattest possible cap, or you'll just get loads of bass out of it and little else.

You're probably better off to first improve the bypassing on the input of the card, that will clean up the supply for everything on it.


----------



## coreyL

doesnt my auzentech x fi home theater hd have a replacable front opamp on the card for audiophiles to tweak the sound? i thought it did >_>


----------



## rollemup

It's more like audio idiots that would tweak that way.

Know anything about cars at all? Let's say you buy yourself an aftermarket crate engine that's got 600 foot lbs torque versus the stock engine of 150. You shoehorn it in there without thinking and leave everything else the same...... what happens?

Any op amp is replaceable it's just a matter of skill. Having it socketed makes blind swapping and shoe horning a fools rush, but it's no excuse for a manufacturer to initially provide with you a potentially cheap op amp with poor bypassing and decoupling, and then saying "have fun tweaker".

I'm not saying dont' tweak it but I am saying you need to know what you're in for. If you want to actually improve on it, know that it's going to get worse before it gets better, and there will almost never be a perfect recipie to follow, because everyone is a proud papa, when they effect a little change, it's "always" for the better.

To give you an example my audiodock had some of the cheapest and low gain bandwidth op amps... makes them very stable and they can endure terrible layouts as a result, given that they're so sluggish.

I swapped in an LM4562 high end audio op amp with far higher gain and bandwidth.... it immediately began to showcase the horride layout and penny pinched power distribution network. It then took me about two years and a whole lot of reworking it to come up with a bandaid that would allow that op amp to shine.

It's a stellar op amp and there's every reason for it to sound good, and it does when properly used. But to just swap them blindly I would have probably liked the results of a 741 better.

Socketing op amps is the absolute wrong way for card makers to please audiophiles, but it's a good way to sucker audiophools. What we'd be better off with is the ability to slave the cards to a decent clock. It's that kind of inability and poor quality that makes for a lot of people to not be able to tell the difference between a low quality mp3 and a lossless rip.

Not too many card makers have done anything more than symbolic gestures of creating a quality audio experience thus far, but if they can fool you with marketing, it saves on engineering.


----------



## coreyL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rollemup* 
It's more like audio idiots that would tweak that way.

Know anything about cars at all? Let's say you buy yourself an aftermarket crate engine that's got 600 foot lbs torque versus the stock engine of 150. You shoehorn it in there without thinking and leave everything else the same...... what happens?

Any op amp is replaceable it's just a matter of skill. Having it socketed makes blind swapping and shoe horning a fools rush, but it's no excuse for a manufacturer to initially provide with you a potentially cheap op amp with poor bypassing and decoupling, and then saying "have fun tweaker".

I'm not saying dont' tweak it but I am saying you need to know what you're in for. If you want to actually improve on it, know that it's going to get worse before it gets better, and there will almost never be a perfect recipie to follow, because everyone is a proud papa, when they effect a little change, it's "always" for the better.

To give you an example my audiodock had some of the cheapest and low gain bandwidth op amps... makes them very stable and they can endure terrible layouts as a result, given that they're so sluggish.

I swapped in an LM4562 high end audio op amp with far higher gain and bandwidth.... it immediately began to showcase the horride layout and penny pinched power distribution network. It then took me about two years and a whole lot of reworking it to come up with a bandaid that would allow that op amp to shine.

It's a stellar op amp and there's every reason for it to sound good, and it does when properly used. But to just swap them blindly I would have probably liked the results of a 741 better.

Socketing op amps is the absolute wrong way for card makers to please audiophiles, but it's a good way to sucker audiophools. What we'd be better off with is the ability to slave the cards to a decent clock. It's that kind of inability and poor quality that makes for a lot of people to not be able to tell the difference between a low quality mp3 and a lossless rip.

Not too many card makers have done anything more than symbolic gestures of creating a quality audio experience thus far, but if they can fool you with marketing, it saves on engineering.


ehh... my goal when i bought my auzentech x fi home theater hd was to be better than the x fi titanium. if it is then i'm happy. im using digital coax to my NAD t 751 reciever and ill know whether it was worth it when i get some decent speakers for it. right not im using two garbage kenwood bookshelves and a z5500 driver for the center. im gunna build some with drivers i have laying around (gunna use two polk 6.5 inch drivers for full range, two tweeters that are decent and two logitech z5500 as midrange). my goal is for it to sound better than the polk TSI 200 lol.

i need to find a local shop where i can LISTEN to some klipsch WF 34 before i actually buy them.

anyway, is this sound card better than the NAD and klipsch can produce or not good enough or par would you say?


----------



## rollemup

HMmm..... HDMI audiophile card, eh? Yeah, I dunno, If I wanted video signals mingling with my audio I'd use a video card, and not joke about it being audiophile, but a company needs products. Really, we need to stop accepting this kind of CRAP, or it will never improve.

HDMI itself as far as I understand it is a bogus standard that's only purpose of existance is to encapsulate copy protection... it does nothing for performance, but they market it like it does. Having it intermingled with that video signal is going to do to it no good, that is for certain. It's like gold leaf on your cell bars.

Anyway if you're taking a digital output from the card to your NAD receiver, then you needn't worry about fussing with the op amps, because I'm sure those drive the analog outputs.

Comparing cards such as this to one another, even with the best op amps and decoupling and so on, is kind of moot because they're all very firmly in the low fi category, at least unless they offer the option to be slaved off of an external master clock. You should look up soundcard and reclocking, you'll find quite some discussion. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. That's really where the quality is to be made up though, because it's really where the quality is suffering.


----------



## coreyL

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


HMmm..... HDMI audiophile card, eh? Yeah, I dunno, If I wanted video signals mingling with my audio I'd use a video card, and not joke about it being audiophile, but a company needs products. Really, we need to stop accepting this kind of CRAP, or it will never improve.

HDMI itself as far as I understand it is a bogus standard that's only purpose of existance is to encapsulate copy protection... it does nothing for performance, but they market it like it does. Having it intermingled with that video signal is going to do to it no good, that is for certain. It's like gold leaf on your cell bars.

Anyway if you're taking a digital output from the card to your NAD receiver, then you needn't worry about fussing with the op amps, because I'm sure those drive the analog outputs.

Comparing cards such as this to one another, even with the best op amps and decoupling and so on, is kind of moot because they're all very firmly in the low fi category, at least unless they offer the option to be slaved off of an external master clock. You should look up soundcard and reclocking, you'll find quite some discussion. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. That's really where the quality is to be made up though, because it's really where the quality is suffering.


i was under the impression that HDMI was a mini DVI port which is smaller and generally carries audio as well as video. dvi can easily carry audio though. so is it just for carrying HD video AND audio or is hdmi really just pointless?


----------



## Ross211

I did it ! I successfully removed the original stock JRC NJM4556 opamp and replaced it with the famous LM4562. I'm a complete noob at soldering believe it or not, I obtained almost all of my parts for this from Radioshack. The only things not obtained from the shack for this mod would be the LM4562 opamps and the X-acto knife I used to cut the original stock opamp off the PCB. I got LM4562 samples from National Semiconductor after getting the wrong LM4562 opamp from an eBay seller (don't get opamps off eBay BTW, don't make dumb mistakes like me).

I spent over a month carefully reading through this thread and the guide, and practiced removing and soldering SMD's on dead motherboards. I didn't even own a soldering iron when I considered attempting this mod. I saw many comments in this thread related to how hard and difficult it is to replace the opamp... I've gotta be real honest here, it's not as hard as it is made out to be or appears to be.

As a result of my noob soldering skills I accidentally scolded some of my X-Fi's Jamicon capacitors with my iron while performing the mod, oh noes







. After performing the mod, I put the card in my rig having great doubts, fired on my system, booted into the OS and I was jumping like crazy when I heard the Windows login sound occur... so stoked









I am amazed that I didn't ruin my card. I couldn't be any happier about the turnout. There truly is more dynamic range and some of my music is like hearing it for the first time again. It's like getting a new toy, putting it away and forgetting about it, and coming back to it in a few years and its even better.



















All clean and ready to be tinned for that LM4562 goodness.










LM4562 soldered down and chillin', but fuuuuuuuuuuu what about that cap there captain ? My card is still working great, sounds even better, lol


















Not bad for my first solder job ? Please let me know.










LM4562 straight from National Semiconductor, thank you for these samples


















Jammin' from foobar2000 mon










This is the poor man's tool kit for the X-Fi LM4562 opamp mod. You can have your own for ~$20


----------



## Ross211

I've made up my mind and I'm going to BestBuy tomorrow to get a decent set of 2.1 PC speakers. I'm thinking Klipsch Promedia 2.1 ? I checked my closest BestBuy and they have them in stock for ~$150 I believe. Is there anything else in this price range that has more bang for the buck ?

I will be using this set with my modded X-Fi Xtreme Music :~)


----------



## coreyL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ross211* 
I've made up my mind and I'm going to BestBuy tomorrow to get a decent set of 2.1 PC speakers. I'm thinking Klipsch Promedia 2.1 ? I checked my closest BestBuy and they have them in stock for ~$150 I believe. Is there anything else in this price range that has more bang for the buck ?

I will be using this set with my modded X-Fi Xtreme Music :~)


imo go for m audio av 40's or bx5's. just my


----------



## Ross211

Does anyone think my soundcard can possibly cause my rig to go up in an expensive fireworks show now? Especially with what I did to a few of the caps on the card.


----------



## coreyL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ross211* 
Does anyone think my soundcard can possibly cause my rig to go up in an expensive fireworks show now? Especially with what I did to a few of the caps on the card.










if that implies blow it up with huge sparks and be a fire hazzard my vote is no. a sound card doesnt draw anywhere near enough power to make big visable sparks unlike my video card did once. could it cause permanent motherboard damage from a small spark, maybe. i dont know, no idea.

edit: looks like you damaged a capacitor? try finding another cap with the same microfrad rating and just replace it to be safe. thats my advice, i dont know how to find out the same cap to find, others will probably know that, or i could just be wrong all together.


----------



## rollemup

Hi,

Why must modders all go out for free samples, just because you can? Those are intended for engineers working on product development, maybe students with projects, someone who eventually might come back and purchase in quantity. It's an abuse of an honor system that people really do need.. and it will make it go away! It would have cost you all of $7, instead you took more than you even needed.

Your soldering appears to have either poor wetting, and/or a lack of solder. You should see nice "fillets" leading up from the pad to the foot. Easy to touch up with a bit of extra flux. Just compare it to the others and see for yourself how it's supposed to look. For a first attempt though it works and you didn't destroy it so bravo. You should always have extra flux around for this type of work, it makes life easy.

The problem with those cheap irons is the danger zone is a mile long and that puts everything in peril, it also makes it harder to control as you're forced to hold it from further away, amplifying the shakes and tremors. Why they do something that stupid is beyond me. Little caps like that though are always in the danger zone and you have to look out for them.

It's unlikely you did any real damage other than to melt through pvc jacket, which is trivial in this case. Make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage, and just leave it alone. You'll probably never find the exact cap to replace it with, throwing in another of equal value can still by very different, and throw off the synergy amongst them.

I got a pair of M-Audio ... M-30? Studio monitor type speakers for a family member's PC build I did. Worth the money, and so would the 40 be.

So it looks like you might have a near rail bypass cap in the form of a ceramic cap. That's not something I'd much want to listen to. If you really want to mess with the sound character now, you'll take a stab at improving the local bypassing, AT THE PIN.

Try and trace back how far the supporting electrolytic cap is from the pins, and how far they fan out.... does that single cap power 4 op amps or just one? The further away it is and the more it fans out the worse it gets.

Resist the urge to use this ability to tune it like an EQ, because you'll find that you can. Most people will end up with monster bass, zero highs, recessed mids... and think it's perfect, so you can't really follow what you see others doing, and it is a very steep learning curve before you get to expect to see the sort of results you hoped for.

Try a high quality film cap of small physical size and lead pitch directly across the rails at the op amp. a 5mm lead pitch for example will straddle that op amp's supply pins directly. The quality of the exact parts that you choose will be what you hear, and the synergy between them will lead to an EQ effect that must be avoided. You want a flat, balanced response across the entire range.

This will have the potential to improve the sound far more than the op amp did, but expect it to get much worse before it gets better. Don't even try it unless you're insanely dedicated to an improvement, or try it just to see the extent of influence it can have, but be prepared to go back to the way it was.
________

EDIT: When you trace out the supply pins with your ohm meter, if they're trace back to those jaimicon electrolytics you burnt, then you've given yourself an excuse to replace them.

The best you can do is find an audio grade cap (not audiophile), and make sure it's designed as audiograde and not sold as one by some audiophile!! Look towards Elna.

The caps are harder to replace not because of the cheap boards but because caps are harder to replace. The big can, the foil elements, all make great heatsinks, and one leg is often soldered to a ground plane, which is an amazing heatsink as well. This job demands a good iron of proper wattage so that you're not sitting on it heating up the entire board for an hour, better to have a quicker blast of heat that can reflew it sooner, but you can't overheat it either, temp control is required. Also consider it's two leads that need to be reflowed at once. You can do one at a time and wiggle it out that way, while not cooking the board. Frequent breaks help and when your finger is burning you'll take one anyway.

What works best though, is just to bridge the leads with a big blob of solder, and then heat them both up simultaneously. Then with just a slight will and outward pressure, it'll pop right out. If you can't do it your iron is junk.

The later method requires less force on the cap, because you're not wiggling it and then putting the spring tension of the cap's leads along with extra force applied by yourself onto the heated solder pads.

The better your iron and technique is, the more often you can rework the same pad without damage. With a standard Iron I would expect a good 3 to 5 times before a solder pad lifts. With my iron I have reworked the same caps some 25+ times. I have a few missing solder pads, but they don't make the connection, they're all through hole plated, as they should be, and so I've been able to keep reworking them even after that. The obvious tip here is to straighten and cut any excess lead off before starting, especially if you use the wiggle method.

Again, practice this on a scrap board at least half a dozen times before you go at it. The Jaimicon gen purpose electrolytic, cheap as it is, is sonically interesting, but holds back a boatload. Remember the key here is an audio grade cap, avoid common junk like FM, FC, ZL.. everyone loves them... they're of abhorent sound quality.

I'm not sure if you have any local cap to the pins or not. You need to check. Having an op amp like that in such a circuit with no local bypassing is a big mistake. I promise you that you're not hearing it yet, you're only hearing the lack of quality in the layout and associated components.


----------



## soloz2

The opamps are actually the easy part on this mod it's the caps that are hard due to the low quality PCB creative chose.

Don't buy promedias for $150, find them used for less. They are good for PC speakers but you'd be much better odd with a good pair of powered monitors such as the audioengine a2. There is lots of info on this topic in the forum so do a search.


----------



## Ross211

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


Hi,

Why must modders all go out for free samples, just because you can? Those are intended for engineers working on product development, maybe students with projects, someone who eventually might come back and purchase in quantity. It's an abuse of an honor system that people really do need.. and it will make it go away! It would have cost you all of $7, instead you took more than you even needed.


rollemup, I get your point clearly. I am being wasteful, I always want to bite onto more than I can chew







(can't you tell by my profile?







) Since receiving these from National I have had intention on giving these LM4562 opamps away for free to forum members wishing to do this mod. I have 3 or 4 LM4562 opamp left, and they can be had for the price of USPS First Class shipping to your door. I might make a For Free thread at TPU. Otherwise PM me here.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


Your soldering appears to have either poor wetting, and/or a lack of solder. You should see nice "fillets" leading up from the pad to the foot. Easy to touch up with a bit of extra flux. Just compare it to the others and see for yourself how it's supposed to look. For a first attempt though it works and you didn't destroy it so bravo. You should always have extra flux around for this type of work, it makes life easy.


I was thinking I didn't have enough solder where the legs on the opamp attach to the pads, but I didn't want to go overboard. Would you recommend touching up on the pads with some .032'' 60/40 Rosin-Core solder? This is the solder that I used for the mod. I've been told that Rosin-Core solder contains flux ?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


The problem with those cheap irons is the danger zone is a mile long and that puts everything in peril, it also makes it harder to control as you're forced to hold it from further away, amplifying the shakes and tremors. Why they do something that stupid is beyond me. Little caps like that though are always in the danger zone and you have to look out for them.


Damn I really did learn my lesson to observe *** you're doing with the iron when you have it anywhere close to other components on the PCB. Thankfully my card is still working fine.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


It's unlikely you did any real damage other than to melt through pvc jacket, which is trivial in this case. Make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage, and just leave it alone. You'll probably never find the exact cap to replace it with, throwing in another of equal value can still by very different, and throw off the synergy amongst them.


Phew, I was really worried that something might explode last night when I first plugged the card in. I'm still concerned - when you say "make sure the can under it is in good repair with no physical damage", are you talking about materials inside or below the caps?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


I got a pair of M-Audio ... M-30? Studio monitor type speakers for a family member's PC build I did. Worth the money, and so would the 40 be.


Thank you for this recommendation I'm currently eying these on newegg now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


So it looks like you might have a near rail bypass cap in the form of a ceramic cap. That's not something I'd much want to listen to. If you really want to mess with the sound character now, you'll take a stab at improving the local bypassing, AT THE PIN.

Try and trace back how far the supporting electrolytic cap is from the pins, and how far they fan out.... does that single cap power 4 op amps or just one? The further away it is and the more it fans out the worse it gets.


I lost you here. Sorry I'm not very knowledgeable in this area.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


Resist the urge to use this ability to tune it like an EQ, because you'll find that you can. Most people will end up with monster bass, zero highs, recessed mids... and think it's perfect, so you can't really follow what you see others doing, and it is a very steep learning curve before you get to expect to see the sort of results you hoped for.


So are you saying resist the urge to physically modding the card to obtain results that you can with an EQ ?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rollemup*


EDIT: When you trace out the supply pins with your ohm meter, if they're trace back to those jaimicon electrolytics you burnt, then you've given yourself an excuse to replace them.

The best you can do is find an audio grade cap (not audiophile), and make sure it's designed as audiograde and not sold as one by some audiophile!! Look towards Elna.

The caps are harder to replace not because of the cheap boards but because caps are harder to replace. The big can, the foil elements, all make great heatsinks, and one leg is often soldered to a ground plane, which is an amazing heatsink as well. This job demands a good iron of proper wattage so that you're not sitting on it heating up the entire board for an hour, better to have a quicker blast of heat that can reflew it sooner, but you can't overheat it either, temp control is required. Also consider it's two leads that need to be reflowed at once. You can do one at a time and wiggle it out that way, while not cooking the board. Frequent breaks help and when your finger is burning you'll take one anyway.

What works best though, is just to bridge the leads with a big blob of solder, and then heat them both up simultaneously. Then with just a slight will and outward pressure, it'll pop right out. If you can't do it your iron is junk.

The later method requires less force on the cap, because you're not wiggling it and then putting the spring tension of the cap's leads along with extra force applied by yourself onto the heated solder pads.

The better your iron and technique is, the more often you can rework the same pad without damage. With a standard Iron I would expect a good 3 to 5 times before a solder pad lifts. With my iron I have reworked the same caps some 25+ times. I have a few missing solder pads, but they don't make the connection, they're all through hole plated, as they should be, and so I've been able to keep reworking them even after that. The obvious tip here is to straighten and cut any excess lead off before starting, especially if you use the wiggle method.

Again, practice this on a scrap board at least half a dozen times before you go at it. The Jaimicon gen purpose electrolytic, cheap as it is, is sonically interesting, but holds back a boatload. Remember the key here is an audio grade cap, avoid common junk like FM, FC, ZL.. everyone loves them... they're of abhorent sound quality.

I'm not sure if you have any local cap to the pins or not. You need to check. Having an op amp like that in such a circuit with no local bypassing is a big mistake. I promise you that you're not hearing it yet, you're only hearing the lack of quality in the layout and associated components.


Thank you so much for your time and response. Is the only repercussion of having this opamp on here with no local bypassing lack of sound quality ? Or is there potential for killing my motherboard, sound card, etc. ?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


The opamps are actually the easy part on this mod it's the caps that are hard due to the low quality PCB creative chose.

Don't buy promedias for $150, find them used for less. They are good for PC speakers but you'd be much better odd with a good pair of powered monitors such as the audioengine a2. There is lots of info on this topic in the forum so do a search.


Thanks for the infos


----------



## rollemup

Yeh, wasn't trying to berate you personally, as you know, but it's something I've seen so often. Don't get them on ebay either, get them from digikey or something. Better luck with proper suppliers.

Going overboard on the solder is pretty common and no big deal to fix up either. Some rosin (flux) loaded solder braid can remove it and clean it up at the same time. Additional flux is a big help though as it is multi purpose. Heat transfer, deoxydizing. helps the solder flow to where you want it and helps keep it off where you don't..

Additional solder just to get flux will likely give you too much like you say.... but you can always try for a "Vertical drag" technique.. look that up, it's cool. Can make a mess though. Might also look up a few SMT soldering tutorials so you'll see a few techniques in action.

Really, it looks like there's enough solder already and if you had a bit of flux on it it would flow out properly just by touching the tip of the iron on it.

Sometimes you get into tight spots and it's almost impossible not to burn a cap. Trust me, you're not the first. It is unsightly and makes it harder to brag later but that's about it. All I'm saying is to make sure the damage is cosmetic, mostly to reassure yourself.. I'm already certain it's not a problem. One audio "Tweak" btw, is to actually cut the jacket right off. I'm not recommending or advocating anybody does that, but people actually do it.

See the problem with a mod like this is that you likely started out with a stock, very crappy op amp.... JRC was it? That is the case then. That means low gain-bandwidth, that means it's less susceptible to piss poor bypassing, which is also the case.

So you take that and slap in a better op amp like the LM here that has a much higher gain-bandwidth product. That means nasties can sneak in and F with the control and stability of it, it may oscillate and run hot, yet sound sort of OK enough for most not to notice), but within reason, it will just sound like pure **** compared to how it could.

A bad analogy might be shoehorning in a race engine into a car was designed to run with a sewing machine engine. Step on the gas one time and it might rip itself apart, or if you actually get it up to speed you'll run it right off the road the first time you try cornering.. slam on the breaks and they'll just burn out... it's a "system".

A higher gain-bandwidth op amp means you need better wideband low Z bypass and decoupling networks closer to the pin, preferably right at the pin. If you have lengths of trace before the bypass cap from the pin, then it is inductance that presents high impedance at higher frequencies.

Long story short it's going to sound way better if you can pull off any type of half decent network at all right at the pin. The highest quality parts are manditory, but choose wisely and they can also cost amongst the lowest. That's why I stress to avoid the "audiophile" crap, and look for audio grade.

I'll just do you a massive favor and tell you to get silmic RFS by Elna. There is nothing better or even close to it..... and this is not "subjective", this is LAW, I **** you not. They're dirt cheap for what they are, and you can get them at digikey when you order your flux pen







You'll need the braid to clean out the holes as well. Look for "soder" braid, with rosin, 1/8" wide works OK.

Then look for a quality film cap to bypass directly across the rails... what type... I dont' give all my secrets away







You'll be quite impressed with the silmic alone but it's a little closed off making you want to lean in and a bit euphonic. That's where you'll start to really hear the music though, and feel it. Try that and you'll see how bad we're always being ripped off by these cheap electronics that would rather use a 2 cent cap than a 2 dollar cap, then come back here and rip them a new one for it.

True quality audio parts that do work and are well priced like silmics are rare and if we dont' support them they'll fall out of existence. Already they see no market in larger power supply sized caps for this reason, and it is an immeasurable loss on our part.
If you're in the audio business like creative, then you should be using the parts that get the job done right and not those that maximise profit margins, you dirty bastards.









Swapping different caps, types, values, and physical sizes, can change the sound character/response just like an EQ. So if you think you prefer heavy bass, it is easy to screw it up by arranging it bass heavy, but then you'll get a bass heavy recording one day and it will just sound stupid, or sound effects that sound "in place" and realistic with a little "tick tick tick" sound, like something small dropping on the floor, end up sounding like BOOM BOOM BOOM" and it's hard to see that as realistic.

What you actually have to do is train your hearing and develop critical listening habits. This takes years and will drive you mental. What you want from it though is a proper flat, even-handed response, for all types of music. Then you can EQ it later as required, but truth be told I never use or need one. It would just screw with my "norm" and my trained ear anyway.

Right now in those 10uF jamicons you have a cap that sounds fairly flat in response but really offers no deep bass, if anything it's just bright. If you move up to 22uF, you get some improved bass extension, and probably less highs, it's all relative and is like tiping the balance on a scale. If you make that a 22uF silmic, it will be absolutely insane bass, and easily quite lobsided. You fix that with additional decoupling and/or bypassing, that tips the scale the other way again, but there's also complex interractions between all the bypssing components.. and they can each be extremely audible when done improperly.

A 10uF silmic will get you more bass already but stay a little more even... if it's starting to sound like a lot of ******ed work then I've given you the correct impression. Companies could do this over time and product revisions, but you'll find their design choices always revolve around maximizing profit margins, and sound quality be damned.

PS: What silmic RFS will give you that no other cap can, is natural pitch. You'll start to be able to tell the difference between a sax and a flute for example, as they'll be realistic, more than ever before.


----------



## ebe

Hi everyone. I just came upon this amazing thread. I can't believe it's been going on since '07. I'm definitely doing the mod on my card. I was wondering if anyone tried replacing the 22uF electrolythics with tantalums? What would they sound like?


----------



## rollemup

like ****


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## Kand

Until now, Rollemup has been posting TL: DR posts.
Keep up the good work, kind sir.


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## rollemup

Commenting on my "true nature" only displays your own. **** if you've got nothing worth saying or I"ll add another sentence and take it beyond your ADHD level.


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## MCBrown.CA

Very well-documented and detailed guide. This gives me new appreciation of the lengths that audiophiles will go to for quality! +Rep

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TransfuSe*


I didn't really read it, but what does this improve?










Are you serious??


----------



## rollemup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kand* 
Until now, Rollemup has been posting TL: DR posts.
Keep up the good work, kind sir.

You can edit your post after the fact, yet remain the fool, worm.


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## 50AE

Guys, sorry for digging up an old thread, but I really need help. Going to paste my issue from another forum.

I have an X-fi music.
I decided to change its ompamp and short the 4 capacitors.
I was self confident, because I have already soldered and dissoldered SMD.
So I dissoldered the old opamp by putting a bid of solder on all the pins and I took it off very fast, to not overheat the board.
I cleaned the excess solder with a copper wick.
Then I took the nice LM4562, glued it with scotch tape, put a drop of homemade flux (rosin in methanol) and soldered the pins fast and gently. I also shorted the caps.

Result: job done very well, very good joints, at least they seem. Everything was clean around the opamp

So then I plugged the card... Oh god, the sound was kind of crispy. I mean, there was some kind of crackling which frequency was 1:1 synchronous with the one of music. I mean, if I want to listen to 50Hz, the crackling is also at the same frequency. But I could also feel the magic sound in same time.

I tried to unshorten the caps... Then one of the channels stopped working.

Then I tried reinstalling the drivers and moving the card to another PCI slot.. Both channes were online again, but the sound were still crispy..

Now I reinstalled the drivers again and only the left channel is working, the right sound very low. Stereo channels just gives a bad crispy sound.

*Post 2:*

I checked with a multimeter every conductive path to the 1-8 pins of the opamp. They all were OK

I decided to replace the opamp with the same new one. I didn't change a thing









I checked the paths conductivity again, they were ok.

I don't see any component missing. I can't remember being rude, touching or ripping something with my soldering gun.
The solderings are very clean and neat.
I can't understand what is going on.
I shorted the 4 caps again and the crackling noise went down quite much, but I can still hear it a little. But only the left channel works...

*
To add some things:*
I read that some users are complaining from eBay. Well, I bought my opamps from there. Could they be the problem? 
I'm currently listening music from another channel.


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## rollemup

Quote:



Originally Posted by *50AE*


Guys, sorry for digging up an old thread, but I really need help. Going to paste my issue from another forum.

I have an X-fi music.
I decided to change its ompamp and short the 4 capacitors.
I was self confident, because I have already soldered and dissoldered SMD.
So I dissoldered the old opamp by putting a bid of solder on all the pins and I took it off very fast, to not overheat the board.
I cleaned the excess solder with a copper wick.
Then I took the nice LM4562, glued it with scotch tape, put a drop of homemade flux (rosin in methanol) and soldered the pins fast and gently. I also shorted the caps.

Result: job done very well, very good joints, at least they seem. Everything was clean around the opamp

So then I plugged the card... Oh god, the sound was kind of crispy. I mean, there was some kind of crackling which frequency was 1:1 synchronous with the one of music. I mean, if I want to listen to 50Hz, the crackling is also at the same frequency. But I could also feel the magic sound in same time.

I tried to unshorten the caps... Then one of the channels stopped working.

Then I tried reinstalling the drivers and moving the card to another PCI slot.. Both channes were online again, but the sound were still crispy..

Now I reinstalled the drivers again and only the left channel is working, the right sound very low. Stereo channels just gives a bad crispy sound.

*Post 2:*

I checked with a multimeter every conductive path to the 1-8 pins of the opamp. They all were OK

I decided to replace the opamp with the same new one. I didn't change a thing









I checked the paths conductivity again, they were ok.

I don't see any component missing. I can't remember being rude, touching or ripping something with my soldering gun.
The solderings are very clean and neat.
I can't understand what is going on.
I shorted the 4 caps again and the crackling noise went down quite much, but I can still hear it a little. But only the left channel works...

*
To add some things:*
I read that some users are complaining from eBay. Well, I bought my opamps from there. Could they be the problem? 
I'm currently listening music from another channel.


Hi,

First of all, you should be using homemade flux. Real flux is a little more involved than throwing some rosin on a thinner. Either get some real flux, or just solder with a flux core and that will be enough to get the job done. A little extra is always useful but you shouldn't actually need it, and actually it's best used to thin out the flux that's on the board to facilitate clean up.

I had a quick look at the beginning of this thread to see what you might have been following. This guide from cotd seems ubiquitous on the forums, which is most unfortunate as it amounts to the blind leading the blind.

Based on your description of the sound and how it crackled with the beat I'd say you likely shorted something out that you should not have. From the "guide":

"Short the 22uF caps near each opamp (there are 4 of them for each one). I definately recommend it as others beside myself also think that shorting improves the detail and realism, with no ill effects on the card. They seem to be decoupling caps, not coupling caps, and make the DAC more stable. Not needed though, it's perfectly stable without them."

That's absolutely idiotic. The only cap you'd ever, very carefully, consider shorting, would be an AC _coupling_ cap, not a "decoupling cap". A decoupling cap filters and holds up your DC voltage supply, amongst other things, like forming the impedance profile of the power distribution network and I can't imagine what kind of an idiot it takes to say a DAC is "stable enough without it", that it would work better with a dirtier and worse regulated, higher impedance voltage source, and that it should be SHORTED OUT?!????! The guy advising that idiocy ought to be shot and pissed on, or pissed on and shot.

So the question becomes exactly what were those caps for? It is possible indeed that there were 4 AC coupling caps per op amp and those could potentially be shorted, especially with the LM4562 op amp. IF any single one of those caps was a decoupling cap however, simply put, you dun ****ed up. You never short the power rails to ground.

I would advise to use your ohmmeter to trace where those caps you shorted connect. Figure out if any one of them were connected to a power rail and ground or from the DAC balanced outputs to differential inputs of the op amp likely througha filter network.

If it happens to be a voltage source, as per a decoupling cap, and you'd know it right away if one of their leads connects to the ground plane, then you'll want to trace it back to the voltage regulator that powers it, and try and test the voltage on it.

You might also remove your op amp and use that alcohole to clean it underneath to ensure no remnance of that homemade flux remains that could possibly short it out.

A quick first check before you do anything though is to check for continuity from the op amp power pins to ground. It really sounds like at least one of them was shorted. If you cleaned up your "shorts" and the op amp sounds dead then it's a matter of figuring out if the op amp died or the voltage regulator died. Driving an op amp with one rail shorted is pretty hard on it and most regulators are overcurrent protected. Swap it out with old crappy op amp again and see if it still works.


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## 50AE

I'm very grateful for your post _rollemup_ !

Firstly, my English vocabulary is not great, so shame on me, I didn't bother to find out what "decoupling" means.
About these capacitors, I did short them, because I believed in the success of the most of the other modders doing so. Nevertheless, I will trace their connections as you instructed me.

I apologize that I didn't mention I thouroughly cleaned the homemade flux before soldering the second amp, because I suspected it in first place. I measured its solution's conductivity between two copper electrodes and compared it with the one of our local tap water. The resistance was 3x greater, but still enough to do problems.

I hope I haven't involved any other fancy components, but even if I did so, it's fate...

I thank you again for the attention paid! I will check the card these days and keep you in touch soon!

Regards, 50AE


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## rollemup

In the future keep in mind when it comes to forum audio tweaks not many people know what the hell they're talking about, some far less so than others. That bit I quoted about shorting the caps out, at the same time as saying they're decoupling caps, defies all logic and common sense. If you short out a decoupling cap, you short your power rail to ground, it's that simple. Even dumber still is knowing the improve the "stability" of the DAC but that it's somehow better without them? Seriously idiotic. So yeah it's kind of a heinous bit of advice to give let alone in the form of a guide that seems to be posted on half a dozen different forums, and then it appears there's some consensus formed around that bad advice, just because everyong is appreciate of a "guide", to make others want to follow along with what they think si a sure thing, and you get what we have here.

Probably your quickest test to see what job those caps you shorted had, would be to see if one of their leads goes to the ground plane. Then it is a good chance they should not have been shorted under any circumstances. Also look up the datasheet for the op amp and trace what pins on the op amp the caps connect with. If it's a power pin, big mistake. If it's either one of the inputs, it should be OK, at least then you know you didn't short out a regulator. Do it for each cap, because it could be that not all caps had the same job and maybe you did one that you shouldn't have.

Another tip also, though you checked pin continuity, I'm guessing just from the pin to some part on the trace it's connected to? That would hopefully tell you the solder connection is OK, but it doesn't always. Sometimes what can happen is a solder pad can lift, and it looks OK, especially when you press down on the pin that it's soldered to, but it's actually an intermittend connection, and the loading of the music signals can be enough to have it act as a rectifier that goes with the beat.

When you clean flux you have to clean it exceptionally well. There can't be a trace of it left. This is far more critical with very high speed circuits, and you have to clean the entire area that it flows to while you're cleaning it. Used flux contains conductive salt ions so the impedance of that contaminating the board would be difficult to determine with basic measurements.

One thing you might try is also measuring for voltage at the power pins of the op amp, if you can get to them easily without shorting them out with your probs, perhaps soldering some small insulated wires to them would make that measurement easier.

Another thing you migtht try is applying gentle pressure to the pins of the op amp with something non conductive. That could be a simple test for an intermittent pad.

Good luck anyway .


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## soloz2

I've been trying to get people to stop doing this mod for some time now. There are now better cards available than the Creative x-fi for gaming and they sound on par to a modded x-fi so there really is no need for the expense and potential ruining of your card.

That said...

Post some pictures so we can see what you're talking about. It is possible that you got a bad batch of op-amps. Did you replace all of them or just the FL/FR? if you are sure nothing else is the root of the issue you can put the old op-amp back in for troubleshooting.

The bottom line is that I have never worked on a cheaper PCB than creative used for these cards. If you are not careful the you can overheat the board and then you have to toss the card.


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## 50AE

I only replaced the FR/FL opamp. The other channels work ok.
I guess I'm an idiot, because I threw away the old opamp.

This is what I did today.
First, I measured where the connections of the caps go.
The first two caps, well, go from ground to a pair of outs from the DAC








The second two go from the DAC to the inputs of the opamp, through some caps and resistances.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/dac.png/

I did unshort the two that go from the GND to the DAC, but no change. Only the left channel works.
I also did measure the voltage of the V+ and V- on the opamp +5V ; -4,96V. They seem to be alright.

I guess my another try will be measuring with my oscilloscope the outputs of the DAC. I hope I haven't screwed this one.


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## rollemup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *50AE;13673420*
> I only replaced the FR/FL opamp. The other channels work ok.
> I guess I'm an idiot, because I threw away the old opamp.
> 
> This is what I did today.
> First, I measured where the connections of the caps go.
> The first two caps, well, go from ground to a pair of outs from the DAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second two go from the DAC to the inputs of the opamp, through some caps and resistances.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/dac.png/
> 
> I did unshort the two that go from the GND to the DAC, but no change. Only the left channel works.
> I also did measure the voltage of the V+ and V- on the opamp +5V ; -4,96V. They seem to be alright.
> 
> I guess my another try will be measuring with my oscilloscope the outputs of the DAC. I hope I haven't screwed this one.


The expense is dirt cheap for what one can potentially learn from this sort of thing. There's probably no cheaper way to do it. Voicing audio components properly is something that almost no one does, and you don't learn how from an idiotic guide like this, that instructs you to short out your power rails. I can't believe this is on so many forums and nobody seems to have mentioned that obvious foolishness.

Moving right along... Since you traced those caps out I can tell you that doesn't look right at all.

You changed only one op amp, correct? Said op amp drove both your left and right single ended channels?

AoutA4 + and - are one pair and will feed one op amp.

AoutB4 + and - are another pair and will feed the second op amp (dual op amp of course).

It seems very strange that those outputs, numbered 4, would be driving your front stereo pair, instead of 1 and 2 that feature their own seperate mute function.

Anyway, I think there's just no way those B outputs should be connecting to ground like that, it makes no sense.Take the caps right out if you need to, make sure the board is clean on both sides, make sure the caps are clean and don't read shorted, look at the underside of the board and see if you actually see the solderpad connected to the ground plane, trace it out more completely. Start from the op amp inputs and work way back to the DAC outputs if you have to.

Those caps you traced should not be going to ground and should not be connected together, once you clear that up you'll likely get your signal back.


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## 50AE

IT WORKS !!

My mistake was so dumb - it was in the shorting the caps method. I was bending the pins of the caps to get them closer in order to make a bridge. And this is what has happened - the pin of the cap was so bent that it punctured through the ground pathway and grounded. Anyway, these outputs also lead to the non-inverting inputs of the opamp, I traced them.

So, I tried the card after removing the short and - equal sound from R and L !!
One thing though, the L had some of the crackling noise left. So I decided to short the two caps again, in order to make them equal - which means the 4 caps shorted.
Now the crackling noise is veeeery little ot the left, but I can still hear it, especially on high volume. It appears very much on the guitar solos.
Do you have any ideas from what it could be?

I may try to unshorten all 4 caps to see if it will work better.

Anyway, the sound is GREAT!!

I thank you guys very much for your attention!

Edit: I noticed this crackling noise is greatly amplified by low quality (mp3s), it is almost not or not appearant on vynil flac.
I'm not sure if it's the card or it's me, because I listened a lot of vynil quality music before doing the mod.
Anyway, I'm sure it's still on someparts of high quality music, especially on mid distortion guitars.
So yes, there is crackling noise, and it's more apparent on mp3s.

Edit2: I downloaded a tone generator.

So it appears the noise appears at a certain point of amplification, neary after 60%+ of the volume. When it's increased to 61% the L starts to crackle, at 62% the R goes then. So both channels crack.
In the low frequencies, it is more easy to crackle, it starts at 40-50%, and at the middles and highs it is almost a constant, doesn't change from 61 or 62%.

The sound is clean when the volume is below 50%.

Could the opamp be to blame here?

Do the opamp outs directly go to the output without any transistor amplification? If yes, could an overload be the reason, low impendance of headphones and less powerful opamp? Easier crackling on the low frequencies makes me suspect this.


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## rollemup

So you punched through the solder mask when you bent the leads back down into the board?

No doubt that action put a breaking torsion on the solder pads and attached trace, so you can scroll up to where I discussed a lifted pad/trace and the rectification effect. You can't bend things around like that, particularly not when the components are soldered, the joints are not meant to stretch or take that strain.

What you can do now is short the whole of it out. Use a piece of fine gauge magnet wire and jump out the entire trace from the DAC output pins to the next connection node beyond the caps, such that you fully bypass the now likely faulty cap connections.


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## 50AE

Hey, I noticed the sound also crackles the same way on the other channels.
So I really suspect an overloading problem.
The sound doesn't crackle at full volume with speakers, but only with headphones.
What's your opinion about it.
I am very sure that THERE's no a TRACE of crackling when the volume is low with headphones connected and when it is on MAX with the speakers.


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## rollemup

Do you mean "other channel" or "other channels".

If it's only with headphones, try a different pair of headphones, and clean the connector out, as well as check the condition of the joints for it.

Your new op amp likely has more drive capability than did the original, look up the datasheets and find out, but it's quite unlikely it should crackle on overload. My view is that's just not the issue.

If it's all your channels, including previous, obviously that would point to the power supplies feeding them. You might as a last resort poke around the areas you worked on with a sharp stick while listening to it and see if any noise picks up.


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## rollemup

Incidentally, there might a chance that you're suffering a type of overloading effect, but not for the reason you're thinking.

The stock board uses a low gain-bandwidth opamp. That lessens the criticality of layout and bypassing to some degree. Not to say that it's a bright idea, but it allows them to get away with locating the "local" bypassing to what would be considered a remote location from a more broadband perspective, where the bypassing should be "at" the pins, not an inch or two or three away and not shared amongst 2 or 3 or 4 + op amps, but that's the kind of **** they pull on a regular basis.

So what happens when you "upgrade" to a higher bandwidth op amp.... well.. you better truly upgrade your bypassing to keep up with it and that doesn't mean slap in the biggest cap you can find that was recommended on some forum it means adhearing to proper design physics and techniques.


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## sratra

Hello. I needed to know if the creative X-Fi Titanium HD is alright to purchase if one plans to apply this mod.
Thanks


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## rollemup

I think you're asking the wrong question


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## newreply

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sratra;13781949*
> Hello. I needed to know if the creative X-Fi Titanium HD is alright to purchase if one plans to apply this mod.
> Thanks


Very late reply Ha ha

Well that card was created by creative as an audiophile card so that sheep coud replace the op amps in.. This would be stupid to do almost as in snake oil.. I would not do it replace the op amps in that card because it would be a roll of the dice to get a better sound quality out of the card.









btw i have that card n yes you could go on ebay buy a cheaper card as this thread is indicating follow this thread and come out ahead in SQ for a fraction of the cost


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## strosz

Hey all,

Did the opamp and cap mod on my XtremeMusic a couple of years ago. Didn't really like the sound pre-mod -it was way too digital and cold, but afterwards.. my god what a difference. It has sounded like a far more professional card since then. The new opamp and cap I used brings out an analogue feel and warm sound from it. I sadly do not remember the part numbers, but they were neither the cheapest nor the most expensive.

Lately I've been on the lookout for the newer gen of audio cards, and the Asus Xonar Essence seems like a killer card with all high-grade components. But whenever I kick some heavy tune action into my X-Fi it never fails to call forth a smile by pure bewitchment.

Anyone who went from a X-Fi mod to Xonar Essence and care to share their experience?

Cheers


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## tiro_uspsss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyberspyder*
> 
> *This mod is no longer recommended and not supported by members of OCN. Perform at your own risk*


why not?


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## bravo5

i need an advice . i would like to get an AD8066 opamp to use it in my X-FI PRELUDE . i'm doing right ? or i will damage the sound card .
i don't know about opamp's voltages .


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## KipH

This mod is no longer recommended and not supported by members of OCN. Perform at your own risk

Mostly because there are better and cheaper cards out now. Buy a good card and save your $, time and card. You don't need to do all this work.


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## soloz2

The mod is no longer supported simply as you need to be fairly knowledgable and profecient with a soldering iron to perform the mod. That paired with the ease of purchasing a better card for around the same price as selling your x-fi plus what you would spend for parts makes it a no brainer to upgrade to a better base card

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soloz2*
> 
> The mod is no longer supported simply as you need to be fairly knowledgable and profecient with a soldering iron to perform the mod. That paired with the ease of purchasing a better card for around the same price as selling your x-fi plus what you would spend for parts makes it a no brainer to upgrade to a better base card
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


Sup Soloz, long time no see! Am I doing a good job taking over here?


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## soloz2

Quote:


> Sup Soloz, long time no see! Am I doing a good job taking over here?


Sure look to be! I just found I no longer had the time. I haven't been on my computer as much over the last year or so. Took a promotion at work, moved... lots of other things taking up my time!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## claudluciffer

too bad, cause i'm enjoying my Xfi Mod, it looks ugly with all big capacitor all over the board, but now i can sleep soundly knowing my Xfi won't fail over a very long long time...
@bravo 5.
AD8066 is a good mod, but there are a bunch of amps which have a superior spec than ad8066, such as OPA2211, i think this opamp on par with X fi prelude capable off...
I don't say AD8066 is a bad op amp, cause i personally tested AD8066 on my xfi xtreme music,














. But AD8066 is actually for video purpose and a very fast opamp, meaning requires precision assembly.
Mine is SMD type ad8066 soldered directly to Xfi PCB , using hot air soldering


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## MikeMike86

I just did this mod on a $20 xtreme music, about $20 in parts and sounds better than any other sound card I've owned.
That's not saying much, but it sounds awesome through my old $60 Philips surround that was a wal-mart display model







. It definitely became more clear/crisp and lost a lot of the muddiness as stated it would.
I had never soldered on a pcb in my life before this mod and learned it's a terrible pain if you accidentally order the larger op amp.
Just used a $15 radio shack soldering iron that I ground the tip down on (to make it smaller) and some fine real lead solder.
One more thing as everyone states getting the solder out of the holes where the cap goes takes forever even with solder wick, I ended up poking a needle through it to finish cleaning it out.

I just did it cause it was a cool project though


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## xxpenguinxx

Old thread I know, but for those still interested.

I upgraded my headphones from HD201 to HD598. After some listening and getting used to the new sound, something was not right about the sound coming out of my computer. The bass was muddy and unbalanced, and some sounds had this electronic sound to them. I decided to mod my old X-fi, and I'm glad I did. Less than $20 in parts and the sound is so much better. No more muddy bass, and that electronic sound is completely gone. I wouldn't call it exactly what I want, but the sound is so much better I have no complaints.

I didn't upgrade the clock, mainly because I couldn't find one under $30 at the time. There's a few on Ebay that are going for less than $20 so I might try to grab a few. I needed some capacitors for other projects, so I figured I'd buy in bulk and save a little on the total cost.

I just followed Almi's X-Fi Mod over at head-fi, since that was one of the few guides I found at that time. Didn't find any major complaints on the Silmic II caps, so I just went with them. Used an Elna Tonerex 100uf 50V for opamps. I only replaced one opamp since I only use headphones, went with the OPA1602AID. I used some cheap MKT type caps on the back. Wasn't sure if they would effect anything, but figured I'd try them. If I didn't like it, I can easily remove them.

Anyway here's pics:


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## riseawarrior

What are the better cards that I can buy for competitive gaming? I just bought a XtremeMusic for $30. Should I return or mod it?


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## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riseawarrior*
> 
> What are the better cards that I can buy for competitive gaming? I just bought a XtremeMusic for $30. Should I return or mod it?


Honestly, most onboard sound is good enough for competitive gaming. I haven't used the above card for about a year now due to high CPU usage from the drivers, instead I've been using my onboard Realtek. It's not as bassy but the sound is flat and natural.

Just plug it in and see how it sounds. If it sounds better than what you have then keep it. Modding will make very minor differences in the sound. The parts that make the most difference are the main power caps and the opamp, the rest of the caps usually don't make a difference unless the caps have degraded some.


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## riseawarrior

Can you get cmss 3d on onboard sound?


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## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riseawarrior*
> 
> Can you get cmss 3d on onboard sound?


Some can do virtual surround, and Windows 10 has it built in with the creators update. Not all games support it though, and games like CS:GO and Overwatch already have their own virtual surround built into the game.


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