# [thetruth]Baltic Sea UFO: Ocean X Team Reveals Rocks



## dph314

Damn. Was hoping to see some little grey guys down there that had a bit of engine trouble


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## Stealth Pyros

It's false, they're hiding the true findings. *tinfoil hat*


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## Abs.exe

Yeah they've have found 4 E.T's in there. They are being examined while we look at those rocks pictures.


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## Chunky-Bunker

I don't believe it for a minute.


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## wedge

Seriously. Did anyone notice the image at the bottom of the article. It compares several versions of the sonar image to the photograph that's been released of rocks. They look nothing like each other. There's no way that rock formation could have been the source of those sonar images.


Spoiler: Warning: Thpoilerth!







Totally. They found and extracted the UFO already. Maybe not the same team, the government had MANY months to do this after the discovery, before the team finally went back there. In hindsight, we should have totally expected this.

Edit: Yup, here it is: http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/06/baltic-sea-ufo-search-russia-us-forces.html

All the team needs to do is take another sonar image of the same structure. If it turns out the same, then we will all shut up. But if the sonar produces a different picture, then we'll know.


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## Krud

COVERING SOMETHING UP


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## dph314

Interesting. Well, anything is possible


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## Devilmaypoop

Looking at this, it's obviously a cover up. I don't even have my tin foil hat on, I'm being completely serious.

I'm even more sure after reading wedges post.


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## redfroth

Assuming control...

This thread is now about amazing geological formations!!!
Amazing Geological formations

I'd just like to point out that nature is responsible for truly amazing and otherworldly looking rock formations. It's pretty sweet the things that millions of years of natural process will create.


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## _02

So they go down, see something that sounds and looks like volcanic rocks, make a few unqualified judgements.

COVERUP!


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## wedge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> Assuming control...
> This thread is now about amazing geological formations!!!
> Amazing Geological formations
> I'd just like to point out that nature is responsible for truly amazing and otherworldly looking rock formations. It's pretty sweet the things that millions of years of natural process will create.


I'm not saying nature can't create amazing things. I've actually been to a few of the places on that page.
But the rock formation they photographed is just not the same thing as the sonar image.


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## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wedge*
> 
> I'm not saying nature can't create amazing things. I've actually been to a few of the places on that page.
> But the rock formation they photographed is just not the same thing as the sonar image.


Then why wouldn't they take a sonar image while they were there?

Why not show larger photographs instead of just describing the area?

There is no evidence one way or another, just a story. I'd like there to be a UFO, but my critical thinking disallows me to not just brush this aside until they can pony up more than a few observations and unclear photos (a trend, mind you). I don't know enough about sonar and rock formations and they haven't provided any believable evidence, and it all comes across like they are insinuating a lot of things that need correlated facts to buy me over.

Again I'd love for there to be a UFO, but "these rocks not that sonar" isn't enough. Show me a comparable sonar, show my a photo of the area showing the full shape of the rocks they did find, show me someone giving a plausible explanation of the rock instead of just cryptically calling it a furnace and describing it as poured concrete, which obviously LEADS people to assume it is man made, etc.


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## WorldExclusive

lol, if there was a UFO down there, the public will never know until decades later. By then it would be defined as another conspiracy theory.
I guess hope in a few people thinking they will receive any truth doesn't hurt. But, I already knew this mission would turn up nothing.

The Governments have been hiding many biblical documents of our beginning for hundreds of years. The public will never be told the whole truth.


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## icehotshot

Hmm just as I predicted in the previous thread.

Rocks or the government got there first.


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## vinman46

I really like the amount of pictures they took


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## gbatemper

[email protected] the comments on the site.
"THIS IS A COVER UP ! Because its over 200,000 years old. NOT A UFO, But a Temple destroyed in a natural destruction , either earth quake water or ice !"


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## StormX2

the hell?

they took like 1 picture?

Those sonar images dont look liek anything special... but Im pretty certain that the sonar image, to scale, is far larger formation that the dinky picture they are showing us

of course I dont know this for sure, but they are saying the formation is made from inch wide pebbles...

yah..

But the sonar images looks like nothing,


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## redfroth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wedge*
> 
> I'm not saying nature can't create amazing things. I've actually been to a few of the places on that page.
> But the rock formation they photographed is just not the same thing as the sonar image.


Going by your assertion we formulate that two things

There is a vast conspiracy to hide the truth of an extra-terrestrial spacecraft, whose instruments and crew suffered a complete failure while observing a habitable planet trillions of trillions of miles away from there own and managed to plunk down into the ocean with no one noticing...

Or it means the dive team are idiots and photographed the wrong site.

Which is more likely?

Back on topic about cool rock formation though...
One of my goals in life I think will be to see this cave in Mexico where these crystals have formed.


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## Georgevonfrank

What if it was a advanced fish like alien race that secretly lives in our oceans.


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## Crooksy

Somebody on the forum over there posted something interesting...

_"Are you kidding. This navy exercise "Baltops 12" and it is every year almost same time. It is open information, why should expedition go if they knew that there will be navy ships. Something is wrong with all this so called expedition

BALTIC SEA NAV WARN 020
311815 UTC MAY
WESTERN BALTIC, THE SOUND, THE BELTS, KATTEGAT, SKAGERRAK.
MULTINATIONAL MARITIME EXERCISE 'BALTOPS 12'.
LIVE EXERCISE FROM 01 - 16 JUNE 2012.
AIR-SURFACE- AND SUBSURFACE UNITS WILL BE INVOLVED.
EXERCISE-MINES WILL BE LAID AND RECOVERED.
ALL SHIPS ARE REQUESTED TO WATCH THE SIGNALS OF THE PARTICIPATING NAVY VESSELS.
CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 162130 UTC JUN."_


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## TAr

Area 51 if any one wants to know


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wedge*
> 
> Seriously. Did anyone notice the image at the bottom of the article. It compares several versions of the sonar image to the photograph that's been released of rocks. They look nothing like each other. There's no way that rock formation could have been the source of those sonar images.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Thpoilerth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally. They found and extracted the UFO already. Maybe not the same team, the government had MANY months to do this after the discovery, before the team finally went back there. In hindsight, we should have totally expected this.
> 
> Edit: Yup, here it is: http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/06/baltic-sea-ufo-search-russia-us-forces.html
> 
> All the team needs to do is take another sonar image of the same structure. If it turns out the same, then we will all shut up. But if the sonar produces a different picture, then we'll know.


LOL I was discussing the same exact thing with a friend of mine...

Even if the photographs are true, it sounds like they found an invisible space ship (sonar would have drawn the image even if it was invisible).

Even if there really are just rocks, how the hell are they just neatly in a perfect circle like that? Seems like something was parked on top of them. And where are the scrape marks along the ocean floor that they said they saw?

Also, check out these interesting reads:

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/06/baltic-sea-ufo-search-russia-us-forces.html

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/06/baltic-ufo-everything-is-top-secret-now.html


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## mkclan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> Assuming control...
> This thread is now about amazing geological formations!!!
> Amazing Geological formations


7th picture- minecraft conspiracy


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## aroc91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devilmaypoop*
> 
> Looking at this, it's obviously a cover up. I don't even have my tin foil hat on, I'm being completely serious.
> I'm even more sure after reading wedges post.


You're swayed by a site named "ufo-blogger.com"? You're part of the reason I've lost faith in humanity.


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## d33r

darn government hiding the truth from us again!!!


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## dph314

I'm not saying it's a cover-up in every case, but it's entirely possible in this one. When did they say this "site" was found? A year ago? And it took a YEAR to go down there? Doubtful. Coulda taken a year to block off a large enough area to excavate the thing and comb the sea floor for any debris...







Hey, you never know.

But yeah almost every government in the world has a reason to hide something like this from the public if it were true. They would want to reverse-engineer the technology without being pressured by the rest of the world about the new technology.


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## Domino

Oh


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## lordikon

Can always count on these threads to bring out the craziest of the OCN members.


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## Xenthos

This is a space ship. I'm sure of it. Last night I saw a rock that looked like it had sand in it but the sand was part of the bigger picture that included the annexation of Wales, yet somehow I think the reason for this matter is the case. I have done my research this ship is real. It came from outer-space with an hour glass inside. It indicated the time it took to travel through the wormhole, which was near zero anyway. Time is nonetheless precious and it ran back up the hourglass so there was more oil in the upper part of the basement than I had ever imagined. We must defend this place against meteorites and this is done by the government. I don't know which one but I'm sure that missiles that were aimed at Australia miss fired and they accidently shot a spying space craft out of the sky, in turn it landed but not a soft landing it was, no they crashed and the pigmee women started gathering around it. Now that's where it came from.

I'm well aware of the theory of Occam's razor and frankly this is it. We've found the razor!! on the upside of it all, a serious flaw in your religion is that there's no need for hope. Therefor if this is not the easiest explanation then what is ? A rock ?lolz A rock picked up by a sheet of ice, a glacier somesay thats laughable at best. What's the sheet of ice gonna do, gobble it up with its big paws?haha:no the easiest explanation with the leastpossible assumptions is a space ship.afterall we've known these things to visit us for many centuries now. They got their landingspads on our soil you know piramids are perfect, you know why they are all over our earth and the many parralel earth out there ? They are the space-aircraft-landing strips and were here even before us. We've found evidence of talks wit them, haha a rock from ice- lol- you know what I say ? Space ship! so stop making stuff up, this is just another one that came from across the solar system in between Proximacentauri and betelgeuze, to land here after the sun was no longer burning. So you and your "iceage" theory should watch some documentaries about facts not a disney movie hahah, harvesting fuel from the sun is easy. And if it fits in outerspace it'll fit on the earth:no? yes! our friends have just made a small mistake and crashed one, boohoo, noneed to go all "it's a rock" on them.

One has to only glance at the pictures and it's clear that this is not a rock, it has sophisticated features that are typical to the space ships I've seen back in the day when I visited the production planet, no sand was good enough to last a long time..if he had to pick there would be no marks earned. yet the typical evolution these devices go through is incredible. Soon you'll notice these things move away from their current locations and pyramids will rise, revealing their true use,haha pharaos ? don't make me laugh: I'll revealt this to the world now. No other has ever heard this. Since the time's end. There used to be many more around but for the time being they are fighting a war in the central nucleus-star near Orion. you'll see them coming They are coming !!

I have proof that Aliens visited us, I'll reveal this to you guys. For the first time in many, information I got from one of my travels through Es.



Clearly you can see as the pyramids were slowly being discovered the lack of landing spots on our mother earth got to such a tight point that our friends needed large open spaces to land and it was clear that we had some land that was clearly open. our friends opted for Russian soil but Stalin killed all one million Aliens, ever since then space ships have been on a downworth path, you can see as alternatives were looked for the amount of corn crops declined, which you can explain by the marks they leave when landing in a field. Not circle is quite rectangular but since then I have found proof: I talk about nothing less than worlddominion domination, the moon will rise and come closer, the rocks of all of this earth will grow into trees and all will be lost. Don't say this is just a rock, it is not, if you do, the alians will get anrgy and grow the Kuiper belt to incredible size. So we can never ever pass it and we'll run out of oxygen and die. Please don't deny I got proof here. This is not a rock, it just did notget the message not to land on russian soil and when it finally arrived they ran out of ants. So crash landing in the war of the betelgeuze era


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## icehotshot

Yea thats the thing. Chances are if a ufo/uso or an alien was found, the government would find it first or silence those who know and no one would ever hear about it.

So basically we will never ever really know unless there is like an alien invasion of earth.


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## Stealth Pyros

Found something new http://www.oceanexplorer.se/


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## Vagrant Storm

Sonar can get a little screw ball on details, but I don't think a few melon sized rocks are going to mess it up that much. I don't know the scale of the sonar, but I've seen sonar images of large sucken ships that looked smaller and the one picture they have these "Furnace shaped rocks" (what the hell shape is a furnace? Mine is a little rectangular cube in my basement) has got to be only a few meters across. This picture is so pointless that it might as well not been released.

Would it have killed them to take some more photos? What caused the large image that looks like a large scrape on the ocean floor?
Quote:


> When we had swum across the object, we get to the weird thing. Then it's like someone has pinched the mountain at the edge, as if you have breathed together two molds, and it sticks out between stone formers, said Stefan Hogeborn.
> "Probably sandstone"


Can any one translate that? I don't have a clue what breathing together molds is or what a stone former is.

I don't think it is a UFO or anything...my money is that an odd shaped rock broke off of a cliff face and traveled in the water a ways.


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## K404

lolwut? Crap article. Translation takes away some of the "sense"

Nothing to see here


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## Shrak

A bunch of small rocks in a cirle... to explain something that would effectively be the size and shape of the millenium falcon...

Not much for conspiracy theories, but this just seems like something is being covered up to me.


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> A bunch of small rocks in a cirle... to explain something that would effectively be the size and shape of the millenium falcon...
> 
> Not much for conspiracy theories, but this just seems like something is being covered up to me.


Read this posted by the research team: http://www.oceanexplorer.se/


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## _02

Has ANYTHING about this AT ALL been even REMOTELY verified by a third party?

You guys are going awfully far off the deep end with very little information from a single source, the only source that stands to benefit from people visiting their site, which hosts extremely little information and pictures for someone claiming to have found something interesting. People take more photos of their cat when it rolls over just right.

I could beat someone into the ground with the number of interesting theories one can concoct that have no merit. The fact that they make no effort to provide exhaustive detail raises a very common, very large, very wavy red flag.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> A bunch of small rocks in a cirle... to explain something that would effectively be the size and shape of the millenium falcon...
> Not much for conspiracy theories, but this just seems like something is being covered up to me.


Not picking on you, but this is ASSUMING their sonar works right, assuming they went to the same place, assuming that they understand the technology and science at work, assuming they reported it correctly, observed it correctly. Sorry way too many assumptions with way too little confirmation to do more than MEH.

There is a reason that believable science is built upon rigorously controlled conditions and details, not just a bunch of intuition and assumption on extremely limited information. I'm not saying they weren't rigerous because I WAS NOT THERE, however in the manner they have presented it (the only manner any of you can act on) they have been non thorough to the point of intentionally misleading.

There is way more information they need to share, or they are lying/wrong.


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## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> It's false, they're hiding the true findings. *tinfoil hat*


Haha.

No Milenium Falcon for us.


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## Gunderman456

Those that use the word "conspiracy" to disprove things are welcomed by the elites/ governments.

It's not like things that have been given the label of "conspiracy" have not proven a reality.

It's not like man has ever schemed and back stabbed to get ahead and kept others down, uninformed and in the dark.

You know they do these things for patriotic reasons and for our own safety after all.









PS; it looks like they took out the thing and arranged a bunch of rocks in a circular formation to fool the fools.

PS 2; at this point, they've added it to their previous collections. It might mean some new tech for the masses though. After the military complex has exhausted it's capabilities of course.


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## GanjaSMK

Four guys and seven day ago our fathers brought forth on this internet, a new conspiracy, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all UFO's are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great battle, testing whether those guys, or any guys so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of those guys. We have come to eradicate a portion of that conspiracy, as a final resting place for those who here gave their UFO's that those guys might find. It is altogether fitting and proper that they should do this.


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## djriful

UFO = unidentified flying object...

This is under water...

UWO...


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## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> UFO = unidentified flying object...
> 
> This is under water...
> 
> UWO...


But it was identified....


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## Solarin

This thread fills my quota for crazy while I wait for the new season of Ancient Aliens to hit Netflix. So good!


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## Twinnuke

If everything is a cover-up / conspiracy doesnt that just make it all normal?


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## Phaedrus2129

I told you so.


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## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> I told you so.


Dude, you just gotta be more open minded... i pity your ignorance... wake up sheeple...


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## Aparition

Oops... sorry guys, so they finally found my DIY submarine. Anyone have the number to the CIA? I'd like it back.


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## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Dude, you just gotta be more open minded... i pity your ignorance... wake up sheeple...


Open-minded has little to do with this. The odds of this being an extra-terrestrial spacecraft instead of a natural formation are probably similar to winning the powerball lottery. Yet, even with those odds so many people are convinced they're probably right and that this is a conspiracy. Part of being open-minded is also understanding the odds and that it could be natural and not extra-terrestrial.

Occam's razor:
Quote:


> The principle is often incorrectly summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor#Overview

This principle holds true with almost everything in life. Just like the "face on mars" conspiracy nonsense that everyone was freaking out about, I see this as most likely being something similar.


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## .:hybrid:.

oh, did I forget my sarcasm tag again?


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## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan33p*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> The furnace-like rock formations on top of that which constitutes the large circle that was discovered with a scanner tool last year. Divers images shows that the circle in turn consist of several blocks formed by "rolls" or "mushrooms" that is attached to each other, forming the circle.
> 
> 
> 
> Heh no UFO. Seems like they are hinting that the rocks might not be a natural formation...
> edit - source http://www.thetruthbehindthescenes.org/2012/06/15/baltic-sea-ufo-ocean-x-team-reveals-rocks-june-15-2012/
Click to expand...

This is another blow to the human race. We simply CANNOT be the only living beings in the entire universe. It is statistically impossible for all of life to congregate in such a small area. Physics proves that "things spread out and travel" therefore life ought to behave the same way. There is no way that all of life was created solely on planet Earth. It must have traveled, like bacteria spreading in a bowl of soup or viruses spreading throughout a room, building, town, etc.


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## Aparition

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The odds of this being an extra-terrestrial spacecraft instead of a natural formation are probably similar to winning the powerball lottery.


People win all the time, those are pretty good odds!


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## eugenekrabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Dude, you just gotta be more open minded... i pity your ignorance... wake up sheeple...


The irony lol


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## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> People win all the time, those are pretty good odds!


So if people are planets, and winning the powerball is an alien visiting your planet, how good are those odds?

Look, I'm not saying there isn't alien life out there, in fact, it's almost mathematically impossible, given that there are over 10 billion billion stars out there (that we know of). But, unless aliens are close enough to our star system and have the means to travel faster than light (or a distance further than light could travel in the same amount of time), then it's certainly plausible that we may not see alien life visit Earth for millions or possibly billions of years.

Something I've considered over the years, is that no matter how much we learn and evolve over the next few thousand years, what if there is truly no possible way to travel as fast or faster than light, or skip across the universe effectively faster than light could? I certainly hope that isn't the case, I hope mankind breaks that boundary somehow. But, in the circumstance that we cannot ever travel that fast, then we would only be able to travel very small distances relatively, and may never make it to more than a few stars in a huge amount of time. If this same restriction was the same for alien life, they may never reach us.


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## chaosblade02

The website is a conspiracy theory nut site. Take it with a grain of salt. And there have been much better and more convincing formations found in the ocean. Google "Yonaguni Monument", and underwater structure in Japan. Also they have found what appears to be ancient structures off the coast of Cuba in 2300 feet of water.

Also you can google "Pumapunku" its not underwater, but the blocks are unusually impressive to have been crafted by ancient man in that time period. And I'm not even sure if modern day craftsmen could replicate them with modern machinery. Clean inside, square corners are very hard to do on granite/diorite even with machinery, and there are no tool marks on the blocks anywhere. It was like they were melted and poured in a form.









These interlock with the H blocks to stack like legos.

Now for some examples of "realistic" structures from an even later time frame, of which are not anywhere as complex as the pictures above, which are arguably too complex of a structure for the natives in that time period to have made.



Yes those are absolutely massive blocks, but ancient man had their methods of moving these which has already been proven by people in modern times testing with methods ancient people had at their disposal. Notice the shape of the blocks, they are rounded, which means they can be dragged on the ground easier than if they were flat, especially if trails were made with gravel/creek rocks. Which is exactly how they did it + 50 people pulling. Wheel or logs not required. Supposedly, those joints are so tight, you can't even slide a piece of paper between them. But its still possible to achieve that. Stones that large when they make contact will leave scratch marks, which will identify the high points, and people can shape them through trial and error until they get an extremely tight fit.



These are typical structures. The only exception to this is pumapunku which clearly shows a FAR more advanced concept and crafting precision. One set of pics shows precision crafted blocks, almost like they were mass produced, the other shows the natives building structures and actually working with the random sizes of stone to build their structures. Pumapunku is also older than the above pics.

They try to claim the same people who made the above stone structure, made Pumapunku, and anyone with their head screwed on properly can easily tell there is a HUGE difference between not just building style, but design, precision and concept. Its impossible that the same culture made both buildings. If I had to guess, I'd say pumapunku was there and long abandoned before the native people arrived, and they "griefed the hell out of it"(minecraft term, lol) it for materials, which is why it is currently in the shape it is in.

If someone is looking for that one example, that actually has any weight to it at all for any sort of "strange theory" then Pumapunku is definitely it.


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## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosblade02*
> 
> The website is a conspiracy theory nut site. Take it with a grain of salt. And there have been much better and more convincing formations found in the ocean. Google "Yonaguni Monument", and underwater structure in Japan. Also they have found what appears to be ancient structures off the coast of Cuba in 2300 feet of water.
> Also you can google "Pumapunku" its not underwater, but the blocks are unusually impressive to have been crafted by ancient man in that time period. And I'm not even sure if modern day craftsmen could replicate them with modern machinery. Clean inside, square corners are very hard to do on granite/diorite even with machinery, and there are no tool marks on the blocks anywhere. It was like they were melted and poured in a form.


They weren't though, because granite requires cooling over millions of years. If it cooled faster it would be basalt or even obsidian.


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## _02

About the rocks - IMO we assume way too much of our technology, and we dismiss way too much of simple solutions by people with genius or some chance insight.


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## chaosblade02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> They weren't though, because granite requires cooling over millions of years. If it cooled faster it would be basalt or even obsidian.


Its one of the reasons its so strange. Also precision measuring tools were taken to the blocks, and accounting for the erosion, and breakage they compared insides of similar blocks and they are within .010" of each other in similarity, comparing similar areas of 2 different H blocks for example. They are also flat within a similar variation. Also the bottom of the H block in the pic, it was found to have a 1.25 degree angle curving inward, that was also repeated within a very precise variation. Not only did they get flatness, squareness, inside corners, but also repeated angular dimensions within a very precision margin, even by modern standards. All this supposedly done by a culture who had no writing. If the conspiracy theorists could point to 1 structure in the world and say "aliens made it" this would be the best example above all other ancient structures made. Because there isn't another one anything like it in the world. Its completely puzzling. This looks like "prefabricated" construction because of the interlocking blocks. Which is a modern construction technique, and the only example in the ancient world of anyone using such a technique.

Considering this, I wasn't all that impressed by the Baltic Sea pictures.


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## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaosblade02*
> 
> Its one of the reasons its so strange. Also precision measuring tools were taken to the blocks, and accounting for the erosion, and breakage they compared insides of similar blocks and they are within .010" of each other in similarity, comparing similar areas of 2 different H blocks for example. They are also flat within a similar variation. Also the bottom of the H block in the pic, it was found to have a 1.25 degree angle curving inward, that was also repeated within a very precise variation. Not only did they get flatness, squareness, inside corners, but also repeated angular dimensions within a very precision margin, even by modern standards. All this supposedly done by a culture who had no writing. If the conspiracy theorists could point to 1 structure in the world and say "aliens made it" this would be the best example above all other ancient structures made. Because there isn't another one anything like it in the world. Its completely puzzling. This looks like "prefabricated" construction because of the interlocking blocks. Which is a modern construction technique, and the only example in the ancient world of anyone using such a technique.
> Considering this, I wasn't all that impressed by the Baltic Sea pictures.


Are you sure that's granite? Because it doesn't look like it. Not porphyritic enough. It kind of looks like cement. In which case pouring in a form is very possible, and would account for the precise similarity between parts since the same mold could be used over and over.


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## Jagged_Steel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chaosblade02*
> 
> Its one of the reasons its so strange. Also precision measuring tools were taken to the blocks, and accounting for the erosion, and breakage they compared insides of similar blocks and they are within .010" of each other in similarity, comparing similar areas of 2 different H blocks for example. They are also flat within a similar variation. Also the bottom of the H block in the pic, it was found to have a 1.25 degree angle curving inward, that was also repeated within a very precise variation. Not only did they get flatness, squareness, inside corners, but also repeated angular dimensions within a very precision margin, even by modern standards. All this supposedly done by a culture who had no writing. If the conspiracy theorists could point to 1 structure in the world and say "aliens made it" this would be the best example above all other ancient structures made. Because there isn't another one anything like it in the world. Its completely puzzling. This looks like "prefabricated" construction because of the interlocking blocks. Which is a modern construction technique, and the only example in the ancient world of anyone using such a technique.
> Considering this, I wasn't all that impressed by the Baltic Sea pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure that's granite? Because it doesn't look like it. Not porphyritic enough. It kind of looks like cement. In which case pouring in a form is very possible, and would account for the precise similarity between parts since the same mold could be used over and over.
Click to expand...

The Puma Punku stonework is actually high-density Rhyolite, which is basically Granite that has been squirted out and cooled rather than cooling in place like the way Granite forms. The stones at Puma Punku are actually harder than Granite.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

As a geology major, your description of intrusive vs. extrusive igneous rocks makes my teeth hurt. Skip it...

Anyway from what I've read these rocks are actually a fine sandstone, which makes the feat much less impressive although still a remarkable work of masonry. Diorite was used as a decorative facing stone in some areas but the bulk of the stonework is sandstone. Rhyolite isn't mentioned.


----------



## vinton13

I'm really stupid in this, so I'll ask a stupid question...if it was a UFO...why cover it up?


----------



## mr. biggums

that's a shame, i was hoping for some remains of a tested vehicle or something along those lines (human made)


----------



## Jagged_Steel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> As a geology major, your description of intrusive vs. extrusive igneous rocks makes my teeth hurt. Skip it...
> 
> Anyway from what I've read these rocks are actually a fine sandstone, which makes the feat much less impressive although still a remarkable work of masonry. Diorite was used as a decorative facing stone in some areas but the bulk of the stonework is sandstone. Rhyolite isn't mentioned.


A "Geology Major" that can't tell the difference between carved stone and cast concrete? O.K. then...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jagged_Steel*
> 
> A "Geology Major" that can't tell the difference between carved stone and cast concrete? O.K. then...


Cute.


----------



## Marin

I'm not saying it's aliens but it's aliens.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin*
> 
> I'm not saying it's aliens but it's aliens.


I love that strange Greek man.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> As a geology major, your description of intrusive vs. extrusive igneous rocks makes my teeth hurt. Skip it...
> Anyway from what I've read these rocks are actually a fine sandstone, which makes the feat much less impressive although still a remarkable work of masonry. Diorite was used as a decorative facing stone in some areas but the bulk of the stonework is sandstone. Rhyolite isn't mentioned.


I could of swore I read in another thread, in which you were chiding people's lack of understanding of physics, that you said did not graduate from college. I might have misread.


----------



## captainchair

very interesting...


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> I love that strange Greek man.


I hate that guy to bits.

He's so full of himself, I seriously wonder why anyone still hires him to make a program and talk complete and utter excrete...

It might be funny to some but I've witnessed enough people who were watching him "explain" stuff and they actually started believing him...

Pisses me off.


----------



## d33r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinton13*
> 
> I'm really stupid in this, so I'll ask a stupid question...if it was a UFO...why cover it up?


Because the introduction and realization that alien species do exist could alter a few things, to name a few...

1) People are scared it would alter the belief systems of God and different faiths. who really created human beings then? (there are many examples of theorys of ancient gods that are said to be aliens descending from the sky) Ancient astronaut theory, chariots of the gods, akunnammi, Indrid Cold/ The Grinning Man ect ect ..

2) It would show the world that we are not in control of our air space, and like other many UFO videos/sightings show that we are helpless compared to their advanced technology and cannot defend ourselves if they were malevolent (meaning they have come to take over our planet and exterminate the human race) and not benevolent extraterrestrials. (benevolent means they would come to help teach us and advance our way of life and co-exist with us)

3) It could possibly start world wide panic, looting, death, and disasters.

4) Government would rather cover up their existence and steal their advanced technology and be lazy instead of actually hosting a greeting.

I wish they come to earth some day and advance our understanding of the universe.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> I hate that guy to bits.
> He's so full of himself, I seriously wonder why anyone still hires him to make a program and talk complete and utter excrete...
> It might be funny to some but I've witnessed enough people who were watching him "explain" stuff and they actually started believing him...
> Pisses me off.


When I said "love" I meant love in the same way I love ice cream sundaes or watching penguins at the zoo. He is entertaining to watch, but I don't actually believe any of his conclusions.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jagged_Steel*
> 
> The Puma Punku stonework is actually high-density Rhyolite, which is basically Granite that has been squirted out and cooled rather than cooling in place like the way Granite forms. The stones at Puma Punku are actually harder than Granite.


Everything I've read says they are sand stone. Looked into it a lot after seeing it on an ancient mysteries. There was an area near by where they could have mined Rhyolite but the structures them selves are sand stone.

As to the detail...I think it is quite simple. They had nothing better to do. They likely worked on a stone for 16 hours a day till it was perfect. It could have even been sanded with an ancient version of sand paper rather than chiseled. It isn't like they watched the clock so they could punch out and go home to play their xbox. Forming these rocks was probably entertainment for them. One guy might have only finished a couple in his lifetime, but over a generation stuff like this could have been finished.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> When I said "love" I meant love in the same way I love ice cream sundaes or watching penguins at the zoo. He is entertaining to watch, but I don't actually believe any of his conclusions.


Oh come on... He never says that it was aliens...but it was aliens.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> As to the detail...I think it is quite simple. They had nothing better to do. They likely worked on a stone for 16 hours a day till it was perfect. It could have even been sanded with an ancient version of sand paper rather than chiseled. It isn't like they watched the clock so they could punch out and go home to play their xbox. Forming these rocks was probably entertainment for them. One guy might have only finished a couple in his lifetime, but over a generation stuff like this could have been finished.


Heh,









Those are some mighty assumptions! But really trying to figure out what they really are, how they were used, how they were made and why; those are questions you'll likely never know an answer to. Don't get me wrong I don't mean to sound like a dick (don't take offense) but - no one really knows anything much about them aside from speculation.

Loads of sites and digs are like that until they can find answers, similar to how only _now_ we're uncovering more about the Maya. Up until just the last two or so decades, we knew really very little other than the translation of the codex and glyphs, and what could be learned from tradition. There are probably more sites still hidden in the jungle, to be sure.


----------



## chasent

I don't even know who is trolling who any more.


----------



## crossy82

As I said in the original thread on this,there would be no way we would be shown anything other than something earth based.We will never see any truth on such matters and nor can we expect to.

I'm not saying little green men were down there,but to all the skeptics out there,Alien technology could surely have been found many times before.After all,we sent rovers and exploration craft to visit other planets and study them,so why would'nt any other intelligent life form?Other life is sure to exist in the infinity of space and its pretty safe to say we are not going to be the most advanced lifeforms out there.

As for the U.S and Russian military operation in that area,lol,that would defo be a recovery mission of somekind.Its about the only time the U.S and Russia would co-operate together.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> When I said "love" I meant love in the same way I love ice cream sundaes or watching penguins at the zoo. He is entertaining to watch, but I don't actually believe any of his conclusions.


Yes I know, well, I was kind of expecting that you weren't seriously in love / worshiping him


----------



## di inferi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chasent*
> 
> I don't even know who is trolling who any more.


Aliens.


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Video of said rocks


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> Video of said rocks


Video in a video. Videoception.


----------



## Malcolm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> They weren't though, because granite requires cooling over millions of years. If it cooled faster it would be basalt or even obsidian.


I can make obsidian by dumping a bucket of water on some lava.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malcolm*
> 
> I can make obsidian by dumping a bucket of water on some lava.


Though, you'll need a diamond pickaxe to mine it.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> Though, you'll need a diamond pickaxe to mine it.


The minute that diamond pickaxe hit it, the diamonds would shatter.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> The minute that diamond pickaxe hit it, the diamonds would shatter.


How so ?


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> How so ?


They're extremely brittle. If you hit one with a rock, or hammer, they shatter instantly.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> They're extremely brittle. If you hit one with a rock, or hammer, they shatter instantly.










I always thought diamond was the hardest substance on earth.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought diamond was the hardest substance on earth.


Hardness is a completely different trait. They are hard and you are right, the hardest on earth due to their structure, but they are very very brittle.


----------



## SeanPoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> Video in a video. Videoception.


The funny thing is, it's actually a video in a video in a video at some points because they're filming the screen of the monitor with a video playing.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Hardness is a completely different trait. They are hard and you are right, the hardest on earth due to their structure, but they are very very brittle.


Aha, I didn't know that. Thx


----------



## raiderxx

Some more pictures/info: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2160297/Pictured-The-UFO-shaped-object-the-Baltic-Sea--covered-soot-little-fireplaces-lying-end-1-000ft-runway.html


----------



## Juliancahillane

OK I feel the need to step in here and clear this whole mess up for some of you

The US and Russian military took the spaceship, and the rocks you see there are likely the pad of which it sat on. The rocks are quite clearly not the sonar image, and also the fact that suit was apparently on the rocks, this could have been caused by the engines of the ship.

Clearly.

Unfortunately the greedy team went and blabbed it to the whole world to get the money up to investigate, when they could have taken a dive in their own time, took lots of pictures, and we would all live in a very different world right now

Would the powers that be accept a change like that? no they sure as hell wouldn't. China don't even let their population go on the internet, North Korea force other ridiculous nonsense down its population about a tear from the stars when that nasty little guy croaked it or a star lit brightly or something...............and every other government is no different, just better and more sly with manipulation tactics and let us all believe they`re the good guys.

Well its all up to everyone to make their own decision but I believe with my eyes and not some BS twisted story intended to carve a control mechanism into the human race. Unfortunately they where smarted than anyone else way back in the day and are now far to strongly rooted for anyone to initiate change. That could have been it. Aww well I guess were gonna just have to carry on patiently waiting for touchdown

But that's just my opinion.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juliancahillane*
> 
> Well its all up to everyone to make their own decision but I believe with my eyes and not some BS twisted story


You are going by their story and pictures, their interpretations. You've seen nothing with your own eyes. You're just believing your preferred story from your preferred party through rose tinted glasses, my friend. Which is why I prefer to deal in proofs, not stories.

I'll eat my words at the first hint of rationale, but this story and all evidence thus far reeks of fanaticism.
Quote:


> More questions: The divers found soot-covered rocks that encircled an egg-shaped hole that went into the object at its center, *and have no idea what any of it means*


Pretty much the bold. I could poke holes in this all day long.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I didn't know we had this many conspiracy theorists. No offense to anyone, but I can pretty much guarantee that every single one of you is wrong.

OCN, I am disappoint.


----------



## L D4WG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> Then why wouldn't they take a sonar image while they were there?
> Why not show larger photographs instead of just describing the area?
> There is no evidence one way or another, just a story. I'd like there to be a UFO, but my critical thinking disallows me to not just brush this aside until they can pony up more than a few observations and unclear photos (a trend, mind you). I don't know enough about sonar and rock formations and they haven't provided any believable evidence, and it all comes across like they are insinuating a lot of things that need correlated facts to buy me over.
> Again I'd love for there to be a UFO, but "these rocks not that sonar" isn't enough. Show me a comparable sonar, show my a photo of the area showing the full shape of the rocks they did find, show me someone giving a plausible explanation of the rock instead of just cryptically calling it a furnace and describing it as poured concrete, which obviously LEADS people to assume it is man made, etc.


For one it would be near impossible to get a photograph of the 60 meter across area, visibility at 85meters would be terrible. This isn't the waters off Hawaii.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wedge*
> 
> Seriously. Did anyone notice the image at the bottom of the article. It compares several versions of the sonar image to the photograph that's been released of rocks. They look nothing like each other. There's no way that rock formation could have been the source of those sonar images.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Thpoilerth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally. They found and extracted the UFO already. Maybe not the same team, the government had MANY months to do this after the discovery, before the team finally went back there. In hindsight, we should have totally expected this.
> Edit: Yup, here it is: http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/06/baltic-sea-ufo-search-russia-us-forces.html
> All the team needs to do is take another sonar image of the same structure. If it turns out the same, then we will all shut up. But if the sonar produces a different picture, then we'll know.


Hey the rocks are 60m across, im pretty sure the photo isn't of the entire area.... They describe it as being 5m off the bottom and i cant see any rise in that photo, my guess is its just a small area of it.


----------



## Maxxa

You mean to tell me the "rocks" at the bottom of the ocean are... wait for it... rocks? Ok. I could have told them that without having to waste ??millions of dollars.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> For one it would be near impossible to get a photograph of the 60 meter across area, visibility at 85meters would be terrible. This isn't the waters off Hawaii.


Then they have a poor vehicle for backing their claims. Take multiple pictures from a close distance and stitch them into a panoramic. TRY to convince people. Show a GPS at the surface and a GPS at the site to verify the location, etc. If I tell you I own a dog that can play the trumpet, but he refuses to be photographed or recorded, are you going to believe me without serious testimonial from trusted sources?

Perhaps if you REALLY want to believe that a dog can play the trumpet, in which case I could easily convince you regardless of truth. The problem (no offense to anyone) with anyone who doesn't require proof is that you can not discredit them or discuss the weakness of their ideas, because they have already abandoned logic. I relish in mystery, but I don't try to fool myself into abandoning everything I've learned about truth and deception.

For instance, I'd love to be learning more about this to make my own conclusions, such as having a conversation about the reliability and resolution of the type of sonar they used on the ship, the type of geologic formations which could explain this and how they image, other sunken objects found in the Baltic that may be similar (there are MANY). All of those are more productive than theorizing about something you will NEVER be able to prove.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> I didn't know we had this many conspiracy theorists. No offense to anyone, but I can pretty much guarantee that every single one of you is wrong.
> 
> OCN, I am disappoint.


It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.


----------



## redfroth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.


What's even more disappointing is that many people who will argue that there is a conspiracy going on use the same logic and reasoning that religious fundamentalists use. They put the burden of proof on those reviewing their hypothesis rather than applying the burden of proof to the hypothesis they are putting forward. The U.S. used to be a beacon of the educated world and still is in many respects but more and more I see the masses falling into the traps of mysticism and pseudo-science. It infuriates me.

Challenge the claim that the object is just a bunch of rocks? They say you're not open minded or that there must be a conspiracy. Even when presented with examples that are infinitely more likely than it being a UFO or lost civilization.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.


Agreed. Like George Carlin once said : "Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe and most of them will believe you, tell them that the paint is wet and they have to touch it."


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.


Every US citizen should be required to take a class in critical thinking or logic....


----------



## Stealth Pyros

I don't really consider myself the usual annoying conspiracy theorist per-say, but I do believe there's more to all of this than just rocks, and yes, I do believe that our government keeps plenty of information about extra-terrestrials/other things like extremely lethal/unbelievable military weapons hidden from the public, though for obvious safety reasons (not just to be annoying and secretive about things).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> I don't really consider myself the usual annoying conspiracy theorist per-say, but I do believe there's more to all of this than just rocks, and yes, I do believe that our government keeps plenty of information about extra-terrestrials/other things like extremely lethal/unbelievable military weapons hidden from the public.


Then you _are_ the usual annoying conspiracy theorist.

I like you mate and you're grand on computers, but seriously? Yeah the government hides stuff, but the government is also made up of _people_, usually not particularly competent people. They couldn't hide aliens, and the excuses for why they would even want to are honestly pretty feeble.


----------



## Abs.exe

Like if they would go out and scream GUYS WE'VE FOUND 7 ALIENS.
Conspiracy or not it's all about the goverment hiding stuff which is 100% understable. It would create such a mess they would be ready to kill anyone who would speak about it.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> I don't really consider myself the usual annoying conspiracy theorist per-say, but I do believe there's more to all of this than just rocks, and yes, I do believe that our government keeps plenty of information about extra-terrestrials/other things like extremely lethal/unbelievable military weapons hidden from the public.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you _are_ the usual annoying conspiracy theorist.
> 
> I like you mate and you're grand on computers, but seriously? Yeah the government hides stuff, but the government is also made up of _people_, usually not particularly competent people. They couldn't hide aliens, and the excuses for why they would even want to are honestly pretty feeble.
Click to expand...

Well let me rephrase (no offense taken btw...). When I say I am not the "usual annoying conspiracy theorist" I meant that I do not have the arrogant belief that the government is "out to get us," take over the world, hold aliens hostage to steal their technology, etc. I simply have an open mind as to what _could_ be the case, whether it seems like a Hollywood-fetched story or not. Are you saying that it is absolutely impossible that the government(s) are keeping anything from us that is extra-terrestrial? All I'm saying is that it's _possible_, hence why I don't consider myself to be the typical annoying theorist that swears they are.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's possible, but the default position on something being possible or not when you don't know is not "yes". The default position is, "I don't know" or at most "maybe?"

I don't know about you and maybe you're the exception, but there's a whole lot of people who'll jump straight to "OMG ITS ALIENS THEIR THEIR I KNOW IT YURRRRRRR"

Anyway, as long as you don't claim something is true without supporting evidence then I have no problem.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Every US citizen should be required to take a class in critical thinking or logic....


I think every US citizen should travel more and not make blanket suppositions about enormous groups of people. Louisiana is a wonderful state with wonderful people. They even got dem Universities and stuff! fer duh lerning! Hyuck!

It's not conceited. It's bigoted. Apply some critical thinking to that.


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> It's possible, but the default position on something being possible or not when you don't know is not "yes". The default position is, "I don't know" or at most "maybe?"
> I don't know about you and maybe you're the exception, but there's a whole lot of people who'll jump straight to "OMG ITS ALIENS THEIR THEIR I KNOW IT YURRRRRRR"
> Anyway, as long as you don't claim something is true without supporting evidence then I have no problem.


So if the earth is 0,000000001% possible** for life, there are 100% chances that there is somewhere in this universe a planet with life on it

Gotta love those facts







haha

**Not sure if it's the right term, excuse my native language.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed disappointing. There's a huge lack of critical and logical thinking going on in the minds of a lot of people out there. It's disturbing when I look at everybody I meet and come across on a daily basis and find that most are only just educated enough to get a basic job, and even worse they're perfectly fine with how little they know. And I'm in one of the higher educated states as well, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have to live in Louisiana. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, I'm just thoroughly saddened by the whole thing. I wonder what kind of world we would be living in if most people we're intelligent, reasonable, understanding, etc? One can only dream I guess. And just to be clear, it's not that everyone should be required to be educated or smart (or informed on a subject in which you're attempting to make baseless claims), but if you're not, don't pretend to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Every US citizen should be required to take a class in critical thinking or logic....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think every US citizen should travel more and not make blanket suppositions about enormous groups of people. Louisiana is a wonderful state with wonderful people. They even got dem Universities and stuff! fer duh lerning! Hyuck!
> 
> It's not conceited. It's bigoted. Apply some critical thinking to that.
Click to expand...

Louisiana is the least educated state in the U.S.. I'm not saying it's a horrible place, it's just that if I'm frustrated with the level of education of the people I see day-to-day, and I'm in one of states with the highest levels of college degrees, then I can only imagine how frustrated I would be in the state with the worst level of education. Louisiana also lies the lowest on a couple of other lists, possibly related to the level of education in the state. I'm not saying everyone in Louisiana is uneducated or not intelligent, I'm saying they just have more people like that than any other state.

It's not bigoted, it's statistical fact.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I lived in Louisiana for three years.

It does, in fact, suck. Its economy is in the crapper, its education system is not good except for the private universities which cost a fortune, the private elementary and high schools care more about your spiritual balance sheet than your education, the public schools are underfunded, the majority of the population is uneducated, everything's dirty, no one gives a crap about the quality of their work, it's damn hot, and in general it's just a terrible place.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> So if the earth is 0,000000001% possible** for life, there are 100% chances that there is somewhere in this universe a planet with life on it
> Gotta love those facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha
> **Not sure if it's the right term, excuse my native language.


We don't have a way to calculate the probability of life arising on earth, but considering it did so PDQ it's probably *very* likely. So it's very likely that there is life elsewhere in the galaxy. Whether some of that life might be intelligent, whether or not it has space travel, and whether or not it would be interested in / capable of making contact with us? Not enough information.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> I think every US citizen should travel more and not make blanket suppositions about enormous groups of people. Louisiana is a wonderful state with wonderful people. They even got dem Universities and stuff! fer duh lerning! Hyuck!
> It's not conceited. It's bigoted. Apply some critical thinking to that.


"wonderful" is subjective and provides no indication on education or knowledge levels...


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> I lived in Louisiana for three years.
> 
> It does, in fact, suck. Its economy is in the crapper, its education system is not good except for the private universities which cost a fortune, the private elementary and high schools care more about your spiritual balance sheet than your education, the public schools are underfunded, the majority of the population is uneducated, everything's dirty, no one gives a crap about the quality of their work, it's damn hot, and in general it's just a terrible place.


Jeez and I thought Florida was pretty weak in the educational department. I mean, UM/FIU are pretty good schools (I'm an FIU student) but there is still quite an abundance of professors that just make you dumbfoundedly (is that a real word? Chrome marks it as incorrect) drop your jaw and make you think "How the hell was this guy hired to teach this course?" Sorry for pushing the topic further off...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

We had a CS teacher in college who thought DOS was pronounced like the Spanish word for two and thought the CPU was the big box with the flashy lights.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> We had a CS teacher *in college* who thought DOS was pronounced like the Spanish word for two and thought the CPU was the big box with the flashy lights.


Seriously?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Seriously?


Yes. And she taught from a book so old it talked about floppies and Zip drives and mentioned the Pentium 3 as a high-grade processor.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. And she taught from a book so old it talked about floppies and Zip drives and mentioned the Pentium 3 as a high-grade processor.
Click to expand...

It's occasionally forgivable when a history book is 5-10 years old, but not a book about technology/CS. U.S. education FTW...


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It's occasionally forgivable when a history book is 5-10 years old, but not a book about technology/CS. U.S. education FTW...


I can forgive the text book... but a educator on the topic should know better.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Louisiana is the least educated state in the U.S.. I'm not saying it's a horrible place, it's just that if I'm frustrated with the level of education of the people I see day-to-day, and I'm in one of states with the highest levels of college degrees, then I can only imagine how frustrated I would be in the state with the worst level of education. Louisiana also lies the lowest on a couple of other lists, possibly related to the level of education in the state. I'm not saying everyone in Louisiana is uneducated or not intelligent, I'm saying they just have more people like that than any other state.
> It's not bigoted, it's statistical fact.


"Educated," in your mind, refers to a bachelor's degree. This is a narrow view. You are also making an enormous assumption that only those with bachelor's degrees are capable of critical thinking and logic. This is completely false. Your premise is wrong from the start. I'm not sure how far you've progressed in academia, but if you think a bachelor's degree really prepares you for real critical thinking then you are sorely mistaken. It is an extension of high school; recitation and regurgitation. Have you factored in the popularity of trades as well? Are we to assume that a state that has a higher population of tradesmen is suddenly uneducated? I am not faulting the statistics. They are simply numbers. I am faulting your conclusion. That is the bigoted statement to which I was referring. If I am presented with the statistic that the majority of murders are committed by black men and I conclude black men must be more inclined to murder, I came to supportable conclusion based on the statistics. However, logic tells us that there must be other causal reasons for the discrepancy. The irony of this whole scenario is fairly amusing.

If you want to say that the majority of people YOU meet don't seem to possess those skills that is fair. You are offering your own experience. However, once you tried to prove trends with statistics you've stepped into a whole other realm, and you need more than, "Louisiana has lower per capita bachelor's degrees."
Quote:


> "wonderful" is subjective and provides no indication on education or knowledge levels...


So is the conclusion one can draw based on a single isolated statistic about bachelor's degrees in a state.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> I can forgive the text book... but a educator on the topic should know better.


She wasn't an educator on the subject. She was an english teacher. The old CS teacher got laid off due to budget shortages. So I wouldn't hold too much against her, if she weren't also a horrible person in general.

Yeah. Louisiana's education system *does* suck. Do not doubt it. There are also a lot of HS dropouts and people with GEDs. Or without.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It's occasionally forgivable when a history book is 5-10 years old, but not a book about technology/CS. U.S. education FTW...


I must be lucky, I remember rather enthusiastic public school computer teachers going back to Elementary grades. Thanks Mom & Dad.


----------



## guyladouche

Oh yay, a news article from a sci-fi conspiracy theorist website.

How in the world did this persist in the news section for so long?


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> We had a CS teacher in college who thought DOS was pronounced like the Spanish word for two and *thought the CPU was the big box with the flashy lights.*


Wait. It's not ?


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> So is the conclusion one can draw based on a single isolated statistic about bachelor's degrees in a state.


Based on HS graduates, undergraduates, graduates, and patents per capita? These are not isolates as they do provide a strong correlation to education levels.

...and "wonderful" remains subjective and irrelevant.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> "Educated," in your mind, refers to a bachelor's degree. This is a narrow view. You are also making an enormous assumption that only those with bachelor's degrees are capable of critical thinking and logic. This is completely false. Your premise is wrong from the start. I'm not sure how far you've progressed in academia, but if you think a bachelor's degree really prepares you for real critical thinking then you are sorely mistaken. It is an extension of high school; recitation and regurgitation. Have you factored in the popularity of trades as well? Are we to assume that a state that has a higher population of tradesmen is suddenly uneducated? I am not faulting the statistics. They are simply numbers. I am faulting your conclusion. That is the bigoted statement to which I was referring. If I am presented with the statistic that the majority of murders are committed by black men and I conclude black men must be more inclined to murder, I came to supportable conclusion based on the statistics. However, logic tells us that there must be other causal reasons for the discrepancy. The irony of this whole scenario is fairly amusing.
> 
> If you want to say that the majority of people YOU meet don't seem to possess those skills that is fair. You are offering your own experience. However, once you tried to prove trends with statistics you've stepped into a whole other realm, and you need more than, "Louisiana has lower per capita bachelor's degrees."
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> "wonderful" is subjective and provides no indication on education or knowledge levels...
> 
> 
> 
> So is the conclusion one can draw based on a single isolated statistic about bachelor's degrees in a state.
Click to expand...

I make no assumptions that people that aren't educated cannot think critically, but a proper education certainly helps. I also make no assumption that an educated person will automatically be able to think critically and reasonably, but again, it's more likely than if they had little to no education. If we want to get into nitty-gritty details, it also depends highly on where the degree was earned, what kind of degree it is, etc. Louisiana doesn't just have lower-per-capita degrees either, as I said, there are whole hosts of issues there, which may be partially related to the level of education in that state. For example:

Louisiana (overall, not everyone in the state), has the second lowest average IQ of any state in the U.S.: http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mamcdani/Publications/McDaniel%20(2006)%20Estimating%20state%20IQ.pdf.

Louisiana has the 8th highest level of obesity in the U.S,
Louisiana, 6th highest number of smoking vs non-smoking citizens per capita,
Louisiana, 9th highest number of diabetics per capita:
http://www.americashealthrankings.org/LA

Louisiana, 3rd worst crime rate in the U.S. overall, highest murder rate in the U.S.:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/04/05/most-dangerous-states-crime-rankings-for-2010/

I won't site unemployment at this time because I'm sure both hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill disasters have affected those statistics.

Yea, I'm sure none of this has to do with education. And let me repeat, I'm not saying everyone that lives there is like this, or uneducated, all I'm saying is that, and I repeat, "If it's the people in Colorado are this depressing, I can only imagine somewhere like Louisiana, where the statistics are much worse."


----------



## Phaedrus2129

New Orleans in particular has the highest obesity rate of any US city and one of the highest murder rates.


----------



## Xenthos

How did a UFO - tin foil hat - thread turn into a US values discussion ?


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xenthos*
> 
> How did a UFO - tin foil hat - thread turn into a US values discussion ?


Because the "higher educated" decided they needed to start talking down on the "lesser educated" conspiracy nuts, or even more open minded folk.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> So is the conclusion one can draw based on a single isolated statistic about bachelor's degrees in a state.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on HS graduates, undergraduates, graduates, and patents per capita? These are not isolates as they do provide a strong correlation to education levels.
> ...and "wonderful" remains subjective and irrelevant.
Click to expand...

He was correlating bachelor degrees to critical thinking and logic directly. Suddenly, we are now dealing with HS grads and terminal degrees as well? You are making an unbelievably moot point in addition to greatly expanding the focus of this discussion. Analyzing every form of formal education in a state will give you data on a state's general level of education. This is certainly true. However, don't you think that this conclusion is self evident? It was also not even close to what I was arguing against. If I analyze all the colors of M&Ms in a bag I can determine the breakdown of colors present. It does nothing to tell me how the candy tastes.

Never once was I arguing that "wonderful" was not a subjective description. Therefore, it seems a little disingenuous for you to use that as some means to dismantle my argument.

It seems my point seems to be obfuscated a bit so I'll outline it in two line.

A) A degree is not necessary to possess critical thinking or logic skills. I am not arguing it doesn't help.
B) The per capita number for bachelor's degrees it not a direct indicator of a population's intelligence.

Washington D.C. has the highest concentration of bachelor's degrees and it has some of the highest crimes rates in the country. Statistics are wonderful.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Because the "higher educated" decided they needed to start talking down on the "lesser educated" conspiracy nuts, or even more open minded folk.


Aha. Well, that will fit in nicely with the 50% Ph.Ds on OCN.


----------



## Fortunex

So many conspiracy hypothesis lol.

I think if an alien spacecraft was _actually_ found, the entire world would know about it. That would be the biggest, most important discovery humans have ever made. The idea of someone covering it up is ludicrous.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> It seems my point seems to be obfuscated a bit so I'll outline it in two line.
> 
> A) A degree is not necessary to possess critical thinking or logic skills. I am not arguing it doesn't help.
> B) The per capita number for bachelor's degrees it not a direct indicator of a population's intelligence.
> 
> Washington D.C. has the highest concentration of bachelor's degrees and it has some of the highest crimes rates in the country. Statistics are wonderful.


A degree itself doesn't help with those skills, what it shows is that you're more likely to have some of those skills than somebody without one. Education per-capita doesn't determine a population's intelligence, but I would imagine that there is a good chance that the same reasons that lead to a lower education per-capita are likely to lead to a lower intelligence per-capita.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> So many conspiracy hypothesis lol.
> 
> I think if an alien spacecraft was _actually_ found, the entire world would know about it. That would be the biggest, most important discovery humans have ever made. The idea of someone covering it up is ludicrous.


I wouldn't put it past the a government to hide something like this. Do you think if the Chinese government found a lot of new technology in a space ship that they would just open it up to all other governments? I doubt it.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I wouldn't put it past the a government to hide something like this. Do you think if the Chinese government found a lot of new technology in a space ship that they would just open it up to all other governments? I doubt it.


Yeah I think they would. Like I said, something like this would be the _biggest, most important discovery the human race has ever made._


----------



## GanjaSMK

Statistics alone don't tell the whole truth.

Education does not come in one pure form related directly to college alone.

Interpretation can differ from one individual to the next.

And the god complex easily impedes daily discussions with _professionals_ - like visiting your doctor.


----------



## ahhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Yeah I think they would. Like I said, something like this would be the _biggest, most important discovery the human race has ever made._


You seem to be forgetting about the number one driver of humanity, GREED.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Yeah I think they would. Like I said, something like this would be the _biggest, most important discovery the human race has ever made._


No, it would mean that Aliens exist and humans would not be ready for it. Mass chaos would start when people find out " we've been invaded by aliens ", relgions would feed to crazy, dooms days theorists would start spouting about the end days. And all around things would not be good. Even while many may believe there are others out there, this doesn't mean they are ready for it the become a reality.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> Statistics alone don't tell the whole truth.
> 
> Education does not come in one pure form related directly to college alone.
> 
> Interpretation can differ from one individual to the next.
> 
> And the god complex easily impedes daily discussions with _professionals_ - like visiting your doctor.


I agree with everything you just said.









I never meant to imply college degrees alone, I merely said in one post that I live in a state with a high amount of college degrees and still find the average person here is amazingly ignorant.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Yeah I think they would. Like I said, something like this would be the _biggest, most important discovery the human race has ever made._
> 
> 
> 
> No, it would mean that Aliens exist and humans would not be ready for it. Mass chaos would start when people find out " we've been invaded by aliens ", relgions would feed to crazy, dooms days theorists would start spouting about the end days. And all around things would not be good. Even while many may believe there are others out there, this doesn't mean they are ready for it the become a reality.
Click to expand...

Bah, who cares. Tell everybody, let them sort it out. The ignorant and extremists will be the same regardless, this will just bring them out of the woodworks and into the spotlight a bit more.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> Washington D.C. has the highest concentration of bachelor's degrees and it has some of the highest crimes rates in the country. Statistics are wonderful.


*BUT* that is an easily accountable abnormality.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> Statistics alone don't tell the whole truth.
> Education does not come in one pure form related directly to college alone.
> Interpretation can differ from one individual to the next.
> And the god complex easily impedes daily discussions with _professionals_ - like visiting your doctor.


But education and experience do form a barrier of entry....

Would anyone like to discuss storage architecture, SQL optimization, or enterprise software development with me? These things are very specialized and the layman has little/no experience in.

When discussing a specialized topic, specialized knowledge is required.


----------



## MAD_J

People with their conspiracy tales saying "oooh its a government cover up, its not actually rocks its ALIENS" need to face reality. Its just a pile of rocks.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> You seem to be forgetting about the number one driver of humanity, GREED.


That's not the number one driving force. The number one driving force is surviving.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> No, it would mean that Aliens exist and humans would not be ready for it. Mass chaos would start when people find out " we've been invaded by aliens ", relgions would feed to crazy, dooms days theorists would start spouting about the end days. And all around things would not be good. Even while many may believe there are others out there, this doesn't mean they are ready for it the become a reality.


Aliens probably exist, and most people know that.
How would finding some crashed spacecraft mean "invaded by aliens"? Any life forms aboard would probably be dead.
Doomsday crazies are already spouting about the end of days, and they have been for the past several thousand years.
"All around", things are already not good. Something like this would be a huge boon to humanity. Not only would we know for sure that interstellar space travel is possible, but we may be able to scavenge technology off of a spacecraft and use it in our own designs.

It is completely absurd to think that a discovery this big would be covered up.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> No, it would mean that Aliens exist and humans would not be ready for it. Mass chaos would start when people find out " we've been invaded by aliens ", relgions would feed to crazy, dooms days theorists would start spouting about the end days. And all around things would not be good. Even while many may believe there are others out there, this doesn't mean they are ready for it the become a reality.


And this differs from the present state of affairs, how?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> No, it would mean that Aliens exist and humans would not be ready for it. Mass chaos would start when people find out " we've been invaded by aliens ", relgions would feed to crazy, dooms days theorists would start spouting about the end days. And all around things would not be good. Even while many may believe there are others out there, this doesn't mean they are ready for it the become a reality.
> 
> 
> 
> Aliens probably exist, and most people know that.
> How would finding some crashed spacecraft mean "invaded by aliens"? Any life forms aboard would probably be dead.
> Doomsday crazies are already spouting about the end of days, and they have been for the past several thousand years.
> "All around", things are already not good. Something like this would be a huge boon to humanity. Not only would we know for sure that interstellar space travel is possible, but we may be able to scavenge technology off of a spacecraft and use it in our own designs.
> 
> It is completely absurd to think that a discovery this big would be covered up.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that, but I don't think it's completely absurd to think some governments could cover this up. Honestly it depends on who finds it first, which government, which media, which civilians, etc.


----------



## redfroth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> That's not the number one driving force. The number one driving force is surviving.
> Aliens probably exist, and most people know that.
> How would finding some crashed spacecraft mean "invaded by aliens"? Any life forms aboard would probably be dead.
> Doomsday crazies are already spouting about the end of days, and they have been for the past several thousand years.
> "All around", things are already not good. Something like this would be a huge boon to humanity. Not only would we know for sure that interstellar space travel is possible, but we may be able to scavenge technology off of a spacecraft and use it in our own designs.
> It is completely absurd to think that a discovery this big would be covered up.


My belief is that if Aliens have come to our planet from hundreds, thousands or even millions of light years away, we should probably start crapping our pants because I doubt they would come here to make friends.

But there is no proof aliens have visited Earth. Thank God.


----------



## ahhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> But there is no proof Aliens have viisited Earth. Thank God.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> My belief is that if Aliens have come to our planet from hundreds, thousands or even millions of light years away, we should probably start crapping our pants because I doubt they would come here to make friends.
> But there is no proof Aliens have viisited Earth. Thank God.


It's funny that you thank an invisible non existent being for a fictional event that didn't take place.

I'm just kidding you btw, I'm bored as hell.


----------



## GanjaSMK

*@lordikon* I know, my post wasn't directed at any one thing or post in particular.









On the topic of _extraterrestrial beings_ I believe that we would have to consider far more than just assuming what we think we might know about them.

As such:

Beyond the intentions of an extraterrestrial alien race or group, what of their technology? What of their understanding of what our humanity calls religion, science, and nature? What of love, what of oppression, and law? Had they progressed farther than we have in the same time span with their own technology or did they see oppression in similar ways that we have as a species? Did they come from a single-planet life producing system or multiple? Are they constructed of the same base materials as we are or do the exist in forms currently unknown to us? What about breeding - do they breed in a way which produces a pleasurable action or is it simply formed from an evolutionary characteristic designed to enhance the chances of survival? Do they resemble any kind of species currently known on our own planet or do they resemble something this planet has never seen before?

The questions far outweigh the answers because we have no way of knowing - until we make _first contact_ with an extraterrestrial being. Even in a first contact scenario, we may not have enough indications to presume upon.

Consider the Drake equation - and expand that to include the possibilities of potential differences within the amount of possibilities that arise from existence... but factoring in the intelligence into the equation would be hard to do. Suppose we're at the very bottom of of the intelligence factor and then ponder the idea that we're at the top...


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> My belief is that if Aliens have come to our planet from hundreds, thousands or even millions of light years away, we should probably start crapping our pants because I doubt they would come here to make friends.
> But there is no proof aliens have visited Earth. Thank God.


Why do you think they would come here with hostile intentions? If life is as rare as it seems to be, they would probably be excited to find a new inhabited planet.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> *BUT* that is an easily accountable abnormality.


You are reinforcing my statement about statistics. Taken at face value and without logical context, erroneous conclusions can be made from statistical data.
Quote:


> But education and experience do form a barrier of entry....
> Would anyone like to discuss storage architecture, SQL optimization, or enterprise software development with me? These things are very specialized and the layman has little/no experience in.
> When discussing a specialized topic, specialized knowledge is required.


Up to this point we were discussing general knowledge which is held in common by the populous. No one has stated that specialized knowledge doesn't have a place and a function. That would be absurd. I was also not aware we were discussing a highly specialized topic. Specialized knowledge is not synonymous with critical thinking either. This is the distinction. Critical thinking is a separate skill set that can incorporate any knowledge you have to solve problems. If either is found lacking (critical thinking or knowledge) then the conclusions drawn about an topic or problem will certainly prove false. Their use can and should be cultivated by everyone. It is a defining human characteristic, and, while college tries to hone one's capacity in some way, it is not the proper litmus test for defining the intelligence of a populous. College attendance shot up during the 60s and 70s. Did people suddenly grow smarter within two decades? It is just the comfy societal standard we use; just like that woefully inaccurate BMI standard used to identify obesity.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Solarin, trust me. I lived in New Orleans for three years. They are, in fact, on average, less intelligent than people from Ohio, northern Virginia, Texas, or California.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Solarin, trust me. I lived in New Orleans for three years. They are, in fact, on average, less intelligent than people from Ohio, northern Virginia, Texas, or California.


So the question is, why? Solarin is saying it has nothing to do with education.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I think it's a positive feedback cycle where poor education causes lower perceived intelligence leads to worse economic conditions leads to worse education, etc.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Solarin, trust me. I lived in New Orleans for three years. They are, in fact, on average, less intelligent than people from Ohio, northern Virginia, Texas, or California.


I've lived all over America as well for a number of years (from sea to shining sea), and your personal experience doesn't quite jive with mine. Forgive me if I don't take your life experience as gospel over my own.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> So the question is, why? Solarin is saying it has nothing to do with education.


You are misrepresenting what I am saying. I am not saying it has *nothing* to do with education. The term "dumb" means nothing. Dumb about what? I am pretty "dumb" when it comes to fixing cars or building a house. Does that make me unintelligent and unable to problem solve?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've lived in Maryland, Virginia, DC, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, and California, and I've been to nearly 40 states total.

You can't make a generalization about a place then apply it to every person who lives there. But you can make generalizations, as long as you keep in mind that they are just generalizations and not universal facts. And I can generalize that there are lots of uneducated and not very bright people in New Orleans, more than in the other places I've lived (Biloxi, Mississippi comes close but the people at the USAF base raised the average).

I'm not asking you to take my experience as gospel. But you don't have to be so damn pedantic. I've observed that people in NOLA are *often* less educated and sometimes appear less intelligent than people elsewhere. Statistics show lower education levels in general than the national average. Multiple statistical points and my personal anecdotal evidence jive. That doesn't make a fact, but it does make an arguable case.

As for why this is? I can't say, other than a self-reinforcing cycle brought on through no fault of their own.


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> You can't make a generalization about a place then apply it to every person who lives there. But you can make generalizations, as long as you keep in mind that they are just generalizations and not universal facts.


If you want to point to a place and say, "Those people are not smart, in my experience" more power to you. Like I've said before, however, when you start trying to rationalize your generalization with statistical evidence without any context on how the data was collected (or really citing anything tbh) and the intent of the study then I start to question the validity. You've met maybe anywhere from 1-2% of a given state's population in a meaningful way? Would you be so cavalier about your generalizations if this were dealing with races? They are just generalizations after all, right?

Pedantic? Give me a break. It's a discussion.


----------



## xlink

Many of the same people who claim the world was formed by cosmic coincidence believe that one or two strange geological features imply the existence of alien life.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't make a generalization about a place then apply it to every person who lives there. But you can make generalizations, as long as you keep in mind that they are just generalizations and not universal facts.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to point to a place and say, "Those people are not smart, in my experience" more power to you. Like I've said before, however, when you start trying to rationalize your generalization with statistical evidence without any context on how the data was collected (or really citing anything tbh) and the intent of the study then I start to question the validity. You've met maybe anywhere from 1-2% of a given state's population in a meaningful way? Would you be so cavalier about your generalizations if this were dealing with races? They are just generalizations after all, right?
> 
> Pedantic? Give me a break. It's a discussion.
Click to expand...

What kind of evidence do you require? You have many links of statistics to both education, average IQ, etc, and people that have lived in the state for years (and many other places). I'm guess I'm not sure what else you would need to make a proper determination about something like this.


----------



## Solarin

It could be that I am missing the focus of your point here. Are you arguing that it is acceptable to make generalization about groups of people based on some statistical evidence and anecdotal evidence?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> It could be that I am missing the focus of your point here. Are you arguing that it is acceptable to make generalization about groups of people based on some statistical evidence and anecdotal evidence?


Isn't that what statistics are for? You just have to be careful about the generalizations that you're making based on said statistics. Obviously, as you said, some of the poorest education and lowest IQ in the nation may not guarantee that Louisiana has the least intelligent IQ per-capita, there may be other factors, but I would say it's safe to generalize and say that those statistics, combined with others, like poor decisions regarding health, weight, and high crime rates, point to a high probability that Louisiana's citizens are indeed the least intelligent, per-capita.


----------



## aroc91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarin*
> 
> It could be that I am missing the focus of your point here. Are you arguing that it is acceptable to make generalization about groups of people based on some statistical evidence and anecdotal evidence?


That's kinda the point of statistical evidence.


----------



## broken pixel

Off coarse people, get back to the subject and stop ******* arguing.
O•|<


----------



## redfroth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Why do you think they would come here with hostile intentions? If life is as rare as it seems to be, they would probably be excited to find a new inhabited planet.


That's the problem. I'm willing to bet habitable planets are not abundant let alone the effort a civilization will have to put forth to reach it. I do believe faster than light travel is possible through some yet undiscovered branch of physics, but I think actually sending a craft, possibly thousands of light years, to a distant planet requires a massive commitment by a civilization to achieve interstellar colonization. That kind of effort usually doesn't begin with the idea of making friends in the galaxy. A space faring civilization will be looking for other habitable planets to live on or exploit for resources. And if they are sufficiently advanced to the point where faster than light travel is a common thing for every memeber of their society, then I definitely don't want them coming here because they might not even consider us to be intelligent life.

Better we be allowed to grow or die in isolation than be used as a slurry for their crops ala Steven Speilbergs "War of the Worlds".


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> That's the problem. I'm willing to bet habitable planets are not abundant let alone the effort a civilization will have to put forth to reach it. I do believe faster than light travel is possible through some yet undiscovered branch of physics, but I think actually sending a craft, possibly thousands of light years, to a distant planet requires a massive commitment by a civilization to achieve interstellar colonization. That kind of effort usually doesn't begin with the idea of making friends in the galaxy. A space faring civilization will be looking for other habitable planets to live on or exploit for resources. And if they are sufficiently advanced to the point where faster than light travel is a common thing for every memeber of their society, then I definitely don't want them coming here because they might not even consider us to be intelligent life.
> Better we be allowed to grow or die in isolation than be used as a slurry for their crops ala Steven Speilbergs "War of the Worlds".


So sending a single craft is a huge commitment, but sending enough spacecraft to hold enough aliens to take over the planet is feasible? Unless you think that a single craft will hold enough supplies, aliens, weapons, etc. to make the journey, take over a planet, and then colonize it, while still being able to move "faster than the speed of light" (lol).


----------



## Xenthos

I've been to Mars once, no-one gave me any media attention.

I don't care if it was in my dreams.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Why do you think they would come here with hostile intentions? If life is as rare as it seems to be, they would probably be excited to find a new inhabited planet.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the problem. I'm willing to bet habitable planets are not abundant let alone the effort a civilization will have to put forth to reach it. I do believe faster than light travel is possible through some yet undiscovered branch of physics, but I think actually sending a craft, possibly thousands of light years, to a distant planet requires a massive commitment by a civilization to achieve interstellar colonization. That kind of effort usually doesn't begin with the idea of making friends in the galaxy. A space faring civilization will be looking for other habitable planets to live on or exploit for resources. And if they are sufficiently advanced to the point where faster than light travel is a common thing for every memeber of their society, then I definitely don't want them coming here because they might not even consider us to be intelligent life.
> 
> Better we be allowed to grow or die in isolation than be used as a slurry for their crops ala Steven Speilbergs "War of the Worlds".
Click to expand...

The Universe is large enough that it might as well be infinite, in terms of where a civilization can go, I'm pretty sure any species that can travel faster than light could find a planet that's not already taken, and perfectly habitable.


----------



## chevymeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The Universe is large enough that it might as well be infinite, in terms of where a civilization can go, I'm pretty sure any species that can travel faster than light could find a planet that's not already taken, and perfectly habitable.


Well now you're talking about planetary placement, rotations, axis and a bunch of other variables that sure, can be possible. Do you know how rare the situation Earth has been put into is? Venus is quite similar to earth but lost a lot of it's water due to it's rotational speed, the atmosphere could not maintain the elements needed to cleanse the sulfur in it's atmosphere. So now you would have to find another circumstance where a planet is orbiting a star at the proper distance and maintaining a proper temperature for life to survive amongst other variables.

Not only that, but who could say other life forms also need to be in our circumstance to survive. We could be in the Venus situation to them. Some ideas...I like space a lot; although, I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct. Only what I read


----------



## Solarin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Isn't that what statistics are for? You just have to be careful about the generalizations that you're making based on said statistics. Obviously, as you said, some of the poorest education and lowest IQ in the nation may not guarantee that Louisiana has the least intelligent IQ per-capita, there may be other factors, but I would say it's safe to generalize and say that those statistics, combined with others, like poor decisions regarding health, weight, and high crime rates, point to a high probability that Louisiana's citizens are indeed the least intelligent, per-capita.


There are entire fields of study that attempt to manage and interpret the correlation and causation involved with social statistics. It is an overwhelmingly complicated field from my limited, but necessary experience with it. This topic would become very unwieldy fairly quickly if we were to investigate statistical theory, but suffice to say that throwing figures out does not necessarily indicate a correct conclusion. I understand how they appear to be related to each other, but keep in mind the following questions. Who responded to the survey? Who did the survey? Why was the survey done?

Listen, I am not trying to insinuate you are a horrible, bigoted person. Just understand that correlation does not equate causation when it comes to statistics.


----------



## broken pixel

Where is Johannes Kepler when you need him?


----------



## ~kRon1k~

i was waiting to see what the results were of this discovery... it seemed that whatever it is they had found was something out of the ordinary, but not necessarily out of this world out of the ordinary.

and about the whole educated versus how intelligent someone is, i just wanted to say that I didn't finish 8th grade and never went back to school due to circumstances in my life at the time. I feel that in my case, if i had went to and finished high school as well as college that I would be just as intelligent as I am now, only with more of what you call 'specialized knowledge'. Maybe I am one of the exceptions to this. Maybe the average person is just that, _the average person._ We are all human, but we so greatly differ when it comes to cognitive ability, mental capacity, and so on and so forth . I don't want to veer any farther off topic, so...









this is a great find and whatever its origin it is interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Xeqn

did they find patrick star under the rocks?

cause im pretty sure a talking starfish is an alien


----------



## Nutty Pumpkin

Interesting!!! Here's the troubling part though...

There may have been something down there apart from rocks. Even if there was were not going to be told.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The Universe is large enough that it might as well be infinite, in terms of where a civilization can go, I'm pretty sure any species that can travel faster than light could find a planet that's not already taken, and perfectly habitable.
> 
> 
> 
> Well now you're talking about planetary placement, rotations, axis and a bunch of other variables that sure, can be possible. Do you know how rare the situation Earth has been put into is? Venus is quite similar to earth but lost a lot of it's water due to it's rotational speed, the atmosphere could not maintain the elements needed to cleanse the sulfur in it's atmosphere. So now you would have to find another circumstance where a planet is orbiting a star at the proper distance and maintaining a proper temperature for life to survive amongst other variables.
> 
> Not only that, but who could say other life forms also need to be in our circumstance to survive. We could be in the Venus situation to them. Some ideas...I like space a lot; although, I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct. Only what I read
Click to expand...

If the odds of a planet being as habitable as Earth are one in a million, there would still be thousands of Earth-like planets in the Milky Way galaxy alone. But yes, other lifeforms might have evolved to require a completely different set of living conditions than the lifeforms on Earth, so there me a be a whole different set of planets out there in the Milky Way that they would consider habitable.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> [But yes, other lifeforms might have evolved to require a completely different set of living conditions than the lifeforms on Earth, so there me a be a whole different set of planets out there in the Milky Way that they would consider habitable.












I don't understand why I hear all the time from scientists in articles and stuff saying things like "No, there's no way there could be life on that planet over there. It has no Oxygen/X other element there that is necessary for life." It's not impossible for there to be life with _other_ necessities that are totally different from humans? Why does every life-form in the universe have to have the same biological composition and needs that life on Earth has? What is essential for us may be poison to them (movie Signs anyone?). Wasn't there some bacteria discovered a year or so ago that lives off Arsenic?

http://www.livescience.com/9046-microbe-eats-arsenic.html

It was quite a remarkable discovery though I haven't followed up on any updates about it. It is possible that this bacteria did not originate on Earth.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why I hear all the time from scientists in articles and stuff saying things like "No, there's no way there could be life on that planet over there. It has no Oxygen/X other element there that is necessary for life." It's not impossible for there to be life with _other_ necessities that are totally different from humans. What is essential for us may be poison to them (movie Signs anyone?). Wasn't there some bacteria discovered a year or so ago that lives off Arsenic?
> http://www.livescience.com/9046-microbe-eats-arsenic.html
> It was quite a remarkable discovery though I haven't followed up on any updates about it. It is possible that this bacteria did not originate on Earth.


Life as we know it... (and that's all we can know about) has certain requirements.

Carbon is considered an essential element with capable of four bonds which allows for a large varity of molecules. Silicon-based has been proposed as well. Silicon is in the same column as carbon.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why I hear all the time from scientists in articles and stuff saying things like "No, there's no way there could be life on that planet over there. It has no Oxygen/X other element there that is necessary for life." It's not impossible for there to be life with _other_ necessities that are totally different from humans. What is essential for us may be poison to them (movie Signs anyone?). Wasn't there some bacteria discovered a year or so ago that lives off Arsenic?
> http://www.livescience.com/9046-microbe-eats-arsenic.html
> It was quite a remarkable discovery though I haven't followed up on any updates about it. It is possible that this bacteria did not originate on Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> Life as we know it... (and that's all we can know about) has certain requirements.
> 
> Carbon is considered an essential element with capable of four bonds which allows for a large varity of molecules. Silicon-based has been proposed as well. Silicon is in the same column as carbon.
Click to expand...

Well of course, but like technology, if you don't LOOK elsewhere at other possibilities to begin with, you'll never find those other possibilities. How many pretty ground-breaking inventions have been accomplished out of error, where the researchers were totally close-minded about something? This is a bit of a radical off-topic example but something as simple as CORN FLAKES was accidentally made, when the founding brothers forgot to store their wheat properly. They thought wheat absolutely had to be stored via a certain process, yet they found out unintentionally that doing it another way would lead them to billions of dollars in cereal sales







What I'm getting at is that there's not always just one way to do or look at things, and saying that life absolutely has to be like it is on Earth everywhere else in the universe is a pretty close-minded/pessimistic approach.


----------



## redfroth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> So sending a single craft is a huge commitment, but sending enough spacecraft to hold enough aliens to take over the planet is feasible? Unless you think that a single craft will hold enough supplies, aliens, weapons, etc. to make the journey, take over a planet, and then colonize it, while still being able to move "faster than the speed of light" (lol).


Oh wow, I see where I went wrong now. My supposition about fictionally advanced civilizations from another planet is completely off base where your supposition of fictionally advanced civilizations from another planet is concerned. My first error was thinking in terms of human history to back up my argument where the ramifications of two civilizations isolated from one another coming into contact for the first time are concerned as your obviously superior retort is supported in full by a wealth of Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Firefly reruns that clearly define the finer details of space craft and extra-terrestrial life, is that why your laughing?









Would you like to be the first Aztec on the beach to greet the Spaniards?


----------



## tambok2012

*ALIEN'S ALIEN'S ALIEN'S*









I believe in Aliens But I have a problem

MY Number One problem is *I DID NOT SEE THEM IN PERSONAL!!!*









just waiting December 21, 2012 hope we will all live, this is the latest prediction in this time so let see...

If this thing does not happen i will never believe Alien's, Predictions again PERIOD...I will finish my course and go on with my life


----------



## Dylan33p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tambok2012*
> 
> *ALIEN'S ALIEN'S ALIEN'S*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in Aliens But I have a problem
> MY Number One problem is *I DID NOT SEE THEM IN PERSONAL!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just waiting December 21, 2012 hope we will all live, this is the latest prediction in this time so let see...
> If this thing does not happen i will never believe Alien's, Predictions again PERIOD...I will finish my course and go on with my life


lolwut


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tambok2012*
> 
> *ALIEN'S ALIEN'S ALIEN'S*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in Aliens But I have a problem
> 
> MY Number One problem is *I DID NOT SEE THEM IN PERSONAL!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just waiting December 21, 2012 hope we will all live, this is the latest prediction in this time so let see...
> 
> If this thing does not happen i will never believe Alien's, Predictions again PERIOD...I will finish my course and go on with my life


Your tin foil hat has a hole in it. The aliens now know where you're at. Run!


----------



## jacksknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tambok2012*
> 
> *ALIEN'S ALIEN'S ALIEN'S*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in Aliens But I have a problem
> MY Number One problem is *I DID NOT SEE THEM IN PERSONAL!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just waiting December 21, 2012 hope we will all live, this is the latest prediction in this time so let see...
> If this thing does not happen i will never believe Alien's, Predictions again PERIOD...I will finish my course and go on with my life


You do realize that the alignment that is supposed to destroy us all happens every year on December 21st. It happened last year and will happen again next year too.


----------



## conzilla

Quote:


> This is a bit of a radical off-topic example but something as simple as CORN FLAKES was accidentally made, when the founding brothers forgot to store their wheat properly.


You know corn flakes are made out of corn not wheat right?


----------



## Xenthos

I swear.

They is comming.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *conzilla*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit of a radical off-topic example but something as simple as CORN FLAKES was accidentally made, when the founding brothers forgot to store their wheat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> You know corn flakes are made out of corn not wheat right?
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_flakes
Quote:


> This idea for corn flakes began by accident when Kellogg and his younger brother, Will Keith Kellogg, left some cooked wheat to sit while they attended to some pressing matters at the sanitarium. When they returned, they found that the wheat had gone stale, but being on a strict budget, they decided to continue to process it by forcing it through rollers, hoping to obtain long sheets of the dough. To their surprise, what they found instead were flakes, which they toasted and served to their patients. This event occurred on August 8, 1894, and a patent for "Flaked Cereals and Process of Preparing Same" was filed on May 31, 1895, and issued on April 14, 1896.[1][3][4]


----------



## Stealth Pyros

^ Ah cool, I thought the story was something about leaving the wheat out (forgetting to store it properly) and it went stale. I was a little bit off


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why I hear all the time from scientists in articles and stuff saying things like "No, there's no way there could be life on that planet over there. It has no Oxygen/X other element there that is necessary for life." It's not impossible for there to be life with _other_ necessities that are totally different from humans? Why does every life-form in the universe have to have the same biological composition and needs that life on Earth has? What is essential for us may be poison to them (movie Signs anyone?). Wasn't there some bacteria discovered a year or so ago that lives off Arsenic?
> http://www.livescience.com/9046-microbe-eats-arsenic.html
> It was quite a remarkable discovery though I haven't followed up on any updates about it. It is possible that this bacteria did not originate on Earth.


Pretty sure that there was a more recent article on that bacteria that said it still lives off of carbon/water despite it being possible for it to live in other environments for long periods of time, or something like that. Every life form that we know of so far has basic requirements, and we've seen no evidence contradicting it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> Oh wow, I see where I went wrong now. My supposition about fictionally advanced civilizations from another planet is completely off base where your supposition of fictionally advanced civilizations from another planet is concerned. My first error was thinking in terms of human history to back up my argument where the ramifications of two civilizations isolated from one another coming into contact for the first time are concerned as your obviously superior retort is supported in full by a wealth of Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Firefly reruns that clearly define the finer details of space craft and extra-terrestrial life, is that why your laughing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you like to be the first Aztec on the beach to greet the Spaniards?


Well first off, two civilizations meeting on a single planet is MUCH different than two different races meeting via interstellar space travel.

I just don't understand your position is all, it seems to contradict itself. I was asking for you to clarify. Do you think that a single spacecraft that could go "faster than the speed of light" could carry enough weapons/supplies/etc. to take over and colonize the earth, or do you think that it isn't such a big commitment after all and they'd likely send many spacecraft?

And fyi, I've never seen any of those shows.


----------



## finalturismo

a thread like this can go on for 19 pages, but if its about internet censorship / data caps it gets shut down in a few page.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo*
> 
> a thread like this can go on for 19 pages, but if its about internet censorship / data caps it gets shut down in a few page.


True story.

But those threads often end up talking about piracy or politics, which isn't allowed.


----------



## conzilla

Quote:


> 1898 - In a fortunately failed attempt at making granola, our company's founder, W.K. Kellogg, and his brother, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, changed breakfast forever when they accidentally flaked wheat berry. W.K. kept experimenting until he flaked corn, and created the delicious recipe for Kellogg's Corn Flakes.


We were both correct. But corn flakes are still corn


----------



## aweir

I see this thread is still active. i updated mine in off-topic but there's a link to something truly bizarre.

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/news_europe/2012-06-20/mysterious-baltic-sea-object-raises-more-questions-.html

There are visible formations on top of the object, which are set at a 90 degree angle and look like passageways or walls, as well as something that looks like it could be a staircase.

The divers also found a hole about 25 centimeters in diameter, though it is not yet known where it leads.

In addition, they found circular forms of small rocks that appear to have been placed like a pearl necklace.

A main objective of the dive was to film the object, and yet the camera stopped working when they approached the object.

[Stefan Hogerborn, Professional Diver]:
Quote:


> "Why isn't anything working, anything electric out there and the satellite phone as well stopped working when we were above the object and then we got away about 200 meters and it turned on again and when we got back over the object it didn't work so that's kind of strange as well."


----------



## MASSKILLA

Those are rocks that were found in a formation on top of the actual thing if you look at the real artical you will see theirs more than just those rocks!!


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MASSKILLA*
> 
> Those are rocks that were found in a formation on top of the actual thing if you look at the real article you will see theirs more than just those rocks!!


The rocks don't make any sense. If it was a crashed UFO, who would go through the trouble of putting rocks on top of it?


----------



## Artikbot

Like they're going to say it's UFOs if they really are...


----------



## RussianGrimmReaper

FYI, it's just rocks.

http://www.disclose.tv/news/Just_in_Baltic_Sea_UFO_a_publicity_stunt_by_the_treasure_hunters/85298#ixzz1xW6gXMRW


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RussianGrimmReaper*
> 
> FYI, it's just rocks.
> 
> http://www.disclose.tv/news/Just_in_Baltic_Sea_UFO_a_publicity_stunt_by_the_treasure_hunters/85298#ixzz1xW6gXMRW


Link is dead. Verified it's not just me. At least at the time of posting this, it's verified down: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.disclose.tv/news/Just_in_Baltic_Sea_UFO_a_publicity_stunt_by_the_treasure_hunters/85298#ixzz1xW6gXMRW


----------



## pale_neon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redfroth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Why do you think they would come here with hostile intentions? If life is as rare as it seems to be, they would probably be excited to find a new inhabited planet.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the problem. I'm willing to bet habitable planets are not abundant let alone the effort a civilization will have to put forth to reach it. I do believe faster than light travel is possible through some yet undiscovered branch of physics, but I think actually sending a craft, possibly thousands of light years, to a distant planet requires a massive commitment by a civilization to achieve interstellar colonization. That kind of effort usually doesn't begin with the idea of making friends in the galaxy. A space faring civilization will be looking for other habitable planets to live on or exploit for resources. And if they are sufficiently advanced to the point where faster than light travel is a common thing for every memeber of their society, then I definitely don't want them coming here because they might not even consider us to be intelligent life.
> 
> Better we be allowed to grow or die in isolation than be used as a slurry for their crops ala Steven Speilbergs "War of the Worlds".
Click to expand...

I'm just going to requote a post i made in OT about this so i don't have to tire my fingers

"
Well the primary reason would be (this is just one theory) that they don't want to induce panic. There are actually protocols for repressing media coverage of visitations if it does happen (literal protocols in place by the U.S. & probably most developed nations;this is not a theory this is a reality). The major theories range from there having been UFOs since humanity's dawn (or before) & that they're simply observing us out of curiosity; to UFOs actively participating in steering humanity away from pitfalls so we can eventually communicate safely. There are accounts from commercial airline pilots, military, to cave drawings of similar looking objects that were congruous across continents. It's an awfully big coincidence, if anything. If you think about it most people usually know someone who claims to have seen one. A friend I've known since high school (ended up at MIT & now works as a chemical engineer for a solar cell company, smart guy) claimed to have seen something stopped in the air & then take off at incredible speeds. This is something he doesn't share w/ everyone obviously. Most people would just think he's nuts, so he keeps it to himself. The stigma attached to it is a discouragement in itself.

If life really is an extreme rarity, & there is no need of anything we could provide (besides ourselves) since there are surely plenty of uninhabited earth-like planets, any interaction would be purely on it's terms.

The thought experiment is so hard because our imagination is limited by our environment most of the time. A grasshopper will react, it's aware of it's surroundings, it can feel fear & make choices emotionally; but it is not going to grasp the concept of altruism. There are likely advanced concepts which we can't grasp in the same way, so applying human psychology to an entity that is thousands, millions, maybe even billions of years more advanced is not going to work. It's impossible to put yourself in it's shoes so-to-say. Right now, we still are regulated heavily by our reptile brain. We're still primal, territorial, aggressive, reactionary, untrusting, & lets face it selfish. These are all leftover traits from having to fight to survive. If humanity ever gets to the point of the singularity these traits will eventually be a thing of the past, they will have become obsolete.

It's almost a sure thing they (i say they because i need something as a placeholder, i'm not referring to any specific thing) would be beyond sapient & time by our standards is nothing to them. Our lives of 70-100 years would be insignificant by comparison; but remember with a great intelligence comes great focus. A stage 2+ being wouldn't suffer from the same attention deficits & lack of impulse control as humanity currently does or else it wouldn't have been able to reach stage 2, it would have eliminated itself during stage 1.

There is also the theory of alternate dimensions. M-Theory's best guess right now is essentially an infinite amount of alternate universes all stacked (not literally but planar).

Einstein once said something along the lines of, the smartest men to have ever lived (including himself) are the equivalent of a child just walking into a library, gazing around & trying to make sense of what he sees. He knows there's probably an order to it, but he has no idea what it means.

These are just the planets we have discovered in the past couple years (by scale)
http://xkcd.com/1071/large/

SETI used to be a joke, now billionaires & governments are investing heavily. paul allen personally has put a ton in.

we really are living on the precipice of enlightenment through technology (assuming we dont destroy ourselves in the process)
i'd like to be around for the singularity, but i have a feeling that still won't be for another 80-100 years. unless they find a way to maintain telomere length i doubt any of us will make it."

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Like they're going to say it's UFOs if they really are...


Therein lies the problem. Unless a UFO(s) actively presents to the populous there's no way the information is getting out short of some Gary McKinnon -esque incident that was documented successfully (& even then it could be spun pretty easily).


----------



## Nebel

Eh, the official news here in Sweden are that the rocks are like nothing scientists have ever seen. That was about a 5-7 days ago. Dunno since then but this article is older.


----------



## _02

They need to post pics and analysis or just be quiet. I haven't had time to check everything but they seem to just be talking a whole lot of hype and blanketing it with "But we really have no idea". I'm interested but don't have the energy to chase down sparse facts amongst a mountain of hearsay.


----------



## Jamie-ln2

yea rocks got ya.

do they think we are stupid do the scan again bet you 10 its not the same.


----------



## Jamie-ln2

thats how samsung got there screen tech


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jamie-ln2*
> 
> yea rocks got ya.
> do they think we are stupid do the scan again bet you 10 its not the same.


Bet you 20 they won't do the scan again


----------



## MountainDewMadOScar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> Bet you 20 they won't do the scan again


GG


----------



## Dylan33p

updated OP with new info


----------



## Dylan33p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MountainDewMadOScar*
> 
> GG


the did the scan again, a 3d scan even


----------



## _02

True, but they need to temper their language. They keep saying obviously intentional things to lead you like proclaiming a runway. They say they are laypeople but make wild assumptions without having any restraint regarding their lack of expertise.

First line of the article in update
Quote:


> This is turning into one of the most amazing and perplexing discoveries in history












I'll keep listening, but the language and insistence they use is annoying and misleading at best. Naturally formed rocks are perfectly capable of 90 degree cleavage and nothing else is really that amazing to me. In fact, it seems excruciatingly unlikely that this is what they are making it out to be. But I'll keep listening as long as they keep showing pictures. Maybe I'll listen harder if they get someone who knows that they are talking about to comment.

By the way, I'm not holding out for UFO, I just think that the ocean and rocks and mysteries are cool.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aroc91*
> 
> You're swayed by a site named "ufo-blogger.com"? You're part of the reason I've lost faith in humanity.


Don't you know how things work? The less evidence there is for something the more convincing it is for moron conspiracy theorists.

Here is how their tiny minds work:

_IF there was a UFO down there, they would hide the information from the public. THEREFORE, there is a UFO down there._

That's basically all their arguments summed up in a couple of sentences.


----------



## dph314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faraz*
> 
> Don't you know how things work? The less evidence there is for something the more convincing it is for moron conspiracy theorists.
> Here is how their tiny minds work:
> _IF there was a UFO down there, they would hide the information from the public. THEREFORE, there is a UFO down there._
> That's basically all their arguments summed up in a couple of sentences.


OR...there's people that take things too far, but the majority of "believers" aren't like that. Just because I think its _possible_ doesn't mean I think it was down there for sure.

And of course, on the other hand, there's people that are completely ignorant and narrow-minded that somehow think that, even though the odds of it are staggeringly impossible, that we're alone in the universe. Those are the people I really pity. I think those people are crazier than the ones who want to believe in a UFO.


----------



## _02

The problem for me is that the people who would like to see a UFO generally openly display a lack of acknowledgement that they are speculating, and generally ignore all the things requisite in having a logical discussion of the issue. Much like the site that is reporting this information, there is little care taken to try and convince people of facts, and great pains taken to influence people based on assumption, inflated language and twisting or obscuring of information.

To any rational person, those things are gigantic red flags that they are being deceived.

The smattering of facts are interesting, but they are merely smatterings interspersed with irresponsible assumptions that fit the team's desires. It is so painfully obvious that it leads to comments about the general unreliable nature of "believers" - the same way I am skeptical of someone who tells me they have made a time machine, but can't show me it working.

This isn't meant to be offensive, this is just how it works. You can't say something without backing it up and expect people not to tear it to shreds. Especially when you don't make any attempt to be neutral with your words and assumptions.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dph314*
> 
> OR...there's people that take things too far, but the majority of "believers" aren't like that. Just because I think its _possible_ doesn't mean I think it was down there for sure.


You're right. That wasn't directed at people like you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dph314*
> 
> And of course, on the other hand, there's people that are completely ignorant and narrow-minded that somehow think that, even though the odds of it are staggeringly impossible, that we're alone in the universe. Those are the people I really pity. I think those people are crazier than the ones who want to believe in a UFO.


That's quite a different topic though. Not being alone in the universe is very different from sharing or having shared our planet with extraterrestrial life/technology.

I have zero reasons to think that we're alone in the universe, but I also have zero reasons to think that we have been visited by extraterrestrial intelligent life.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Using links from their website (Ocean X team) -

I don't know but if you listened to the interview - about the middle area in the audio - the guy tells the interviewer that the 'runway' or 'streak' if you will is actually a ridge that rises on a slope up to the object / formation.

He also states a couple of really interesting things:

A) There is a private 'investor' not investor*s*
B) They have a contract with not only the investor but also a TV station/crew/company to do a documentary
C) Because of said contracts they cannot release the information they already have outright but are also waiting for more data to finalize speculation and further investigation

But - beyond all that - I wouldn't be surprised if it was a media stunt or something along those lines. However, listening to him he seems pretty excited to find out what is - regardless of whether it's some sort of ancient dwelling, a rock formation, or something else.

I don't care either way, it's fun to see what this will turn out to be. And if it does somehow turn out to be some crazy dwelling from either a really ancient unknown settlement and/or just an offshoot of something we already know about - whatever - that's awesome stuff any way I see it.


----------



## coupe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dph314*
> 
> OR...there's people that take things too far, but the majority of "believers" aren't like that. Just because I think its _possible_ doesn't mean I think it was down there for sure.
> And of course, on the other hand, there's people that are completely ignorant and narrow-minded that somehow think that, even though the odds of it are staggeringly impossible, that we're alone in the universe. Those are the people I really pity. I think those people are crazier than the ones who want to believe in a UFO.


I don't think we're alone in the universe. I just think it's very unlikely that anyone would come out there. We're in a very unremarkable location.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> I don't think we're alone in the universe. I just think it's very unlikely that anyone would come out there. *We're in a very unremarkable location*.


How do you know that?

What's wrong with where our solar system is?

Is this arm of the galaxy not good enough for you?









Rather, isn't this the _most remarkable location_ since we're here and we _are_ proof of life?


----------



## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> How do you know that?
> What's wrong with where our solar system is?
> Is this arm of the galaxy not good enough for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather, isn't this the _most remarkable location_ since we're here and we _are_ proof of life?


Center of the galaxy is where the club planets are, we are just the suburbs no one wants to visit us







.


----------



## cjc75

I don't think there is a UFO down there, or ever was one...

I think, based on the evidence presented thus far, what we're seeing is some ancient dwelling of prehistoric man, likely from before one of the last ice ages hundred thousand years ago when the ocean and sea water levels were several hundred feet lower then they are now...

The 'runway' could be some sort of ceremonial walkway to the dwelling area... similar to the ceremonial procession ways in ancient Mayan and Aztec ruins that lead to their main central temples in their cities.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> Rather, isn't this the _most remarkable location_ since we're here and we _are_ proof of life?


Well in order to even think that thought, you need to exist, so it is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy to think it unique or amazing.

Anthropic Principle
Quote:


> only in a universe capable of eventually supporting life will there be living beings capable of observing any such fine tuning, while a universe less compatible with life will go unbeheld


The anthropic principle deals more with uniqueness of the universe, but I think the same could be applied to planets/galaxies/locales of isolated beings examining their existence. They would all assume they were unique proof. I see what you are saying though, from all the places to be (that we know of) this seems to be a rather interesting one since we are here and not at the other places.


----------



## cjc75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> I don't think we're alone in the universe. I just think it's very unlikely that anyone would come out there. We're in a very unremarkable location.


Actually, I think we're in quite a remarkable location of the Galaxy.

The Sagittarius Arm of the Galactic Spiral, and near its outer band at that!

We're in an area where stars are young and this is likely the area where most Life began in the Galaxy.

Advanced civilizations in more densely populated regions of the Galaxy, would be VERY interested in wanting to come here, as it would be like looking back at their own ancient past and watching themselves developing all over again! More so, they would be very interested in wanting to see what sort of galactic species we, ourselves, will one day develop into and would we be a species that they would want interstellar relations with, or would be be one that they would want to avoid contact with?


----------



## Scorpion667

Government got there first GG

we've seen the FBI fabricate warrants to get into Dotcom's house, nothing can escape the long arm of the gov


----------



## Mygaffer

Why do people buy into this stuff time and time again?


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Lets take some guesses

#1) Stone structure housing another object inside possibly a ship or something else.

#2) UFO Crashed long ago and structure was built around it

#3) A construction/ship yard

#4) A lost structure of man containing ancient knowledge maybe a library or something.

#5) A "Vent" or something of a nature leading to a massive underground city/structure

#6) A launching pad for some type of ship the starting point.

#7) Aliens crashed long ago 1 lived man built a tomb around there ship with there help!

#8) Aliens crashed tried to build another ship failed with crap technology of the day man had to escape the earth's atmosphere and ended up there


----------



## _02

Out of all those elaborate ideas, you didn't even consider the most likely and already established.

Rocks.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Lets take some guesses
> 
> #1) Stone structure housing another object inside possibly a ship or something else.
> 
> #2) UFO Crashed long ago and structure was built around it
> 
> #3) A construction/ship yard
> 
> #4) A lost structure of man containing ancient knowledge maybe a library or something.
> 
> #5) A "Vent" or something of a nature leading to a massive underground city/structure
> 
> #6) A launching pad for some type of ship the starting point.
> 
> #7) Aliens crashed long ago 1 lived man built a tomb around there ship with there help!
> 
> #8) Aliens crashed tried to build another ship failed with crap technology of the day man had to escape the earth's atmosphere and ended up there


Or rocks.

( *edit* )

^ LOL damn you beat me to it.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Stating the obvious isn't speculation now is it?


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Stating the obvious isn't speculation now is it?


Fine, but why not base it on some information? Being that the Baltic sea was created by receding glaciers (which crush, grind and displace rock), has been more or less submerged based on the time period, and has many water sources flowing into it AND that we do not know how close to land they are looking, you could speculate:

- Mineral deposit or sediment from tributaries in a non usual formation
- Mineral deposit exposed while sea level was low due to erosion and then submerged
- Rock moved and deposited by glacial recession (or carved out by recession)
- Non native rock deposited by melting ice
- Structure built when land was exposed to air and then submerged
- Volcanic rock from a very old lava tube or similar shaft
- Fossilized organic material
- Dumped debris
- Shipwreck(s)
- Meteor impact material
- Interesting rocks
- Clown universe portal

Another thing I just thought about (thanks for helping me kill time at work!) - they keep saying it looks like man made cement. I've seen cement with rocks in it, rough sandpaper like cement, cement as smooth as glass, cement with very rough pits. So what kind of cement are they talking about, or are they just really strongly insinuating that it is man made yet providing little to no details about their ideas?


----------



## cjc75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> Fine, but why not base it on some information? Being that the Baltic sea was created by receding glaciers (which crush, grind and displace rock), has been more or less submerged based on the time period, and has many water sources flowing into it AND that we do not know how close to land they are looking, you could speculate:
> - Mineral deposit or sediment from tributaries in a non usual formation
> - Mineral deposit exposed while sea level was low due to erosion and then submerged
> - Rock moved and deposited by glacial recession (or carved out by recession)
> - Non native rock deposited by melting ice
> - Structure built when land was exposed to air and then submerged
> - Volcanic rock from a very old lava tube or similar shaft
> - Fossilized organic material
> - Dumped debris
> - Shipwreck(s)
> - Meteor impact material
> - Interesting rocks
> *- Clown universe portal*


I vote Portal to the Clown Universe..

Its where all the Killer Clowns will come out from to attack us!


----------



## hour1702

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Look at 11:04













Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Look at 3:50


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cjc75*
> 
> I vote Portal to the Clown Universe..
> Its where all the Killer Clowns will come out from to attack us!


Oh don't be ridiculous. It's obviously a giant plug that when pulled will empty the ocean into the inner Earth.


----------



## cjc75

Actually...

It is the Gateway to R'lyeh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%27lyeh
Quote:


> Charles Stross's novella A Colder War implicitly locates R'lyeh in the Baltic sea, describing Cthulhu as being "scraped from a nest in the drowned wreckage of a city on the Baltic floor".












Cthulhu and Azathoth are coming to get us all!


----------



## AngeloG.

*Not saying it's aliens, but aliens.*

It's nothing, there are no aliens sending UFO's near the Earth. Everyone who actually thinks that the "government" can conceal that, or has a reason to conceal anything related to UFO's, needs to reconsider his opinion.


----------



## crossy82

How so when governments have released certain information from certain events from over 50 years ago I.e project blue book etc.So theses things have happened before,although with the information they supposedly release they black out most of it

I am not saying its aliens,and not saying its not,it could be a military satelite that crashed,or even some kind of rover type piece of equipment from another race(after all if thier are intelligent they probably would'nt bother to visit this rock.I think it could have been some laboratory of somekind,governments have secret labororatories in strange places.

Or maybe it was a fancy rock,could have been some kind of sea creature even.Guess will never know whatever it is or was.


----------



## aweir

There's a chance that these _could_ just be rocks and the government is hiding the truth by staying silent. Even if these *were* rocks, why would the government keep silent about their existence? The government needs to be more open and just say that these are rocks instead of hiding the truth. Silence is guilt and the government needs to take on a more active role in investigating rock formations so we can put this rock conspiracy behind us.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hour1702*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Look at 11:04
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Look at 3:50


I wish all the conspiracy theorists would just watch the first 3 minutes of the first video...


----------



## perfectblade

has anyone heard of the recent national geographic poll that asked voters to compare whether romney or obama would be better in the case of an alien invasion? someone at national geographic believes in aliens too


----------



## Faraz

Depends if they're illegal or not.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faraz*
> 
> Depends if they're illegal or not.


is monica vitti your avatar? im definitely a fan


----------



## Faraz

Yes, sir.

Vitti + Antonioni = cinematic bliss.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faraz*
> 
> Yes, sir.
> Vitti + Antonioni = cinematic bliss.


l'eclisse is one of my favorite movies


----------



## Strat79

I'll be 100% stunned if it is anything more than an abnormal rock formation. At best I think it will be some ancient structure that was built on dry land and then later sunk due to the water level difference now. Something along the lines of the Yonaguni-jima, Japan structures, on a smaller scale.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strat79*
> 
> I'll be 100% stunned if it is anything more than an abnormal rock formation. At best I think it will be some ancient structure that was built on dry land and then later sunk due to the water level difference now. Something along the lines of the Yonaguni-jima, Japan structures, on a smaller scale.


Imo thats just as fascinating. As for people debating this whole UFO and Aliens thing, bear in mind there is a massive difference between alien craft and man made secret craft designed in projects like project aurora (SR71, SR-75, TR3-B) . I can tell you now for 99% certainty that BOTH exist. Dont belive it then fair enough you obviously are not interested in the subject and have not spent hours and hours looking at all the declassified documents and proof (video's, mass sightings etc) which is fair enough.


----------



## Flack88

Double post sorry


----------



## Faraz

If there was such a plethora of declassified documents and proof, then pretty much everyone would be convinced that aliens have visited our planet. It would become a pretty commonplace fact.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faraz*
> 
> If there was such a plethora of declassified documents and proof, then pretty much everyone would be convinced that aliens have visited our planet. It would become a pretty commonplace fact.


There is, the uk released a load of documents not to long ago. Ill try find a link to all of them. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/ theres a few to start with. Ill be honest with you I was skeptical myself untill I actually saw one with my own eyes, I have seen 2 UFO in my lifetime , 2nd time with a bunch of friends that also all saw it.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> There is, the uk released a load of documents not to long ago. Ill try find a link to all of them. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/ theres a few to start with. Ill be honest with you I was skeptical myself untill I actually saw one with my own eyes, I have seen 2 UFO in my lifetime , 2nd time with a bunch of friends that also all saw it.


No offense, but how are you any different than people who have misidentified other craft?

Or if by saying you truly only consider it unidentified, are you also saying it was extraterrestrial?

Point me to some truly intriguing things in those docs. All I'm seeing as I flip through is "alleges", "possible hoax" or "no determination". That is in the documentation that I don't have to pay £3 per PDF to download... I've heard some interesting testimonial from people too, but it is just testimonial. I can also point to a bunch of hoaxes and falsifications that are equally as convincing.

I do read these things, but usually just to let my mind wander, not because I see any hard facts in them.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> There is, the uk released a load of documents not to long ago. Ill try find a link to all of them. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/ theres a few to start with. Ill be honest with you I was skeptical myself untill I actually saw one with my own eyes, I have seen 2 UFO in my lifetime , 2nd time with a bunch of friends that also all saw it.


First, what is it about the hard evidence regarding UFOs that makes many otherwise intelligent (in fact, I'd say quite intelligent and quite critically thinking and evidence-oriented) people so reluctant to accept it? In other words, how come hard evidence about a new jellyfish species or a new underwater volcano doesn't elude these people but anything to do with UFOs goes right over their heads?

Second, what exactly did you see with your own eyes? Can you describe it?

Third, how come whenever UFOs are seen, it's always by random laypeople with no authority in the field and no connections to anyone involved in any scientific research regarding this topic or space in general? How come it's never seen by people who are involved in fields that observe things like the sky and related phenomena with way more advanced equipment than a cell phone camera on a dark night (meteorologists, astronomers, SETI researchers, etc)? No tinfoil hat answer, please.

Oh, and personal testimonials cannot be trusted because you'll find personal testimonials regarding ghosts, speaking to the dead, Mary in a slice of toast, etc.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> No offense, but how are you any different than people who have misidentified other craft?
> Or if by saying you truly only consider it unidentified, are you also saying it was extraterrestrial?


Good question lol. I realy like cars and planes and anything that goes fast. My dad back in the day, was in the RAF and was a modest rank so I do love planes and know planes as its been all around me my life. Tbh if I could go back in time I would do my best to fly planes for the RAF.
The thing with the 1st UFO, was that I live in the contryside and have walked into my kitchen many times at night and know where the lights are placed (on the lane next to me there is only 1 light in the entire area and its orange/yellow). Off in the distance in the North I saw a big ball of white light, looked like a star blown up 100% in the feild close to my house. I cant guess the distance as I didnt know how far it was from the ground. Before anyone asks, no I wasnt drunk etc it was in the middle of the working week.

I watched the thing for about a min and then thought. 'I wonder if I can get a pic/video of this thing in normal night mode and then in negative mode'. I ran back to my games room to grab my phone and managed to get back with enough time that it was still there. I was setting my phone to night mode when I saw the thing move to the left at a 45* angle for about 2 seconds at a slowish speed. It then moved upwards a little bit at the same speed and then shot off into the night sky upwards at an insane speed. It was gone far from sight within 1 second......tbh I was gutted as I would have liked to have got it on camera or at least got a picture.

As for knowing if it was extraterrestrial, I dont know tbh. If it was from a goverment from wherever (USA, UK, Russia, China etc). But the one thing I do know is no human could of been inside of it, as the speed it pulled was astonishing to say the least.

The curious thing is I do live closeish to a military base which is fairly small. So it could of been a secret drone of some sorts.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Yeah but - about those declassified UFO reports in the UK - you have to remember a few things:

* Still only 1% can be relegated to true 'UFO' status, in the sense that there is literally nothing to compare the details in the case to, while many cases clearly can be compared to known craft or phenomena
* They released it because they closed down their investigation unit / directive / whatever they called it
* (If I remember correctly) There are several 'reports' which never got reported on or investigated, for whatever reason

What I'm getting at is, it is proof of... not much. Proof that really only 1% or less of all of the sightings, mass or individual, photos, video, and all the rest, can be relegated to real unidentified-flying-object status. There hundreds if not thousands of possibilities to explain all the rest. And the really good cases of 'UFO' are rare; very.

Anyways.. just chiming in. I think the possibility that what they've found is a dwelling of some sort either of known ancient history or perhaps even pre-unknown ancient history is in the realm of (actually statistically high) 30% range - if only going by the interviews/what they've released - as of now.

Interesting for sure, at least to me.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faraz*
> 
> First, what is it about the hard evidence regarding UFOs that makes many otherwise intelligent (in fact, I'd say quite intelligent and quite critically thinking and evidence-oriented) people so reluctant to accept it? In other words, how come hard evidence about a new jellyfish species or a new underwater volcano doesn't elude these people but anything to do with UFOs goes right over their heads?
> Second, what exactly did you see with your own eyes? Can you describe it?
> Third, how come whenever UFOs are seen, it's always by random laypeople with no authority in the field and no connections to anyone involved in any scientific research regarding this topic or space in general? How come it's never seen by people who are involved in fields that observe things like the sky and related phenomena with way more advanced equipment than a cell phone camera on a dark night (meteorologists, astronomers, SETI researchers, etc)? No tinfoil hat answer, please.
> Oh, and personal testimonials cannot be trusted because you'll find personal testimonials regarding ghosts, speaking to the dead, Mary in a slice of toast, etc.


LOL IM REALY GLAD U ASKED THIS QUESTION!
Quote:


> Third, how come whenever UFOs are seen, it's always by random laypeople with no authority in the field and no connections to anyone involved in any scientific research regarding this topic or space in general? How come it's never seen by people who are involved in fields that observe things like the sky and related phenomena with way more advanced equipment than a cell phone camera on a dark night (meteorologists, astronomers, SETI researchers, etc)? No tinfoil hat answer, please.


If u READ the FAA manual for your country. Its actually wrote in it that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are the seeing/sighting of 'ufo' to be discussed. Its wrote on paper look it up.

As for your 1st question I dont know tbh. Id say 80% of sightings are top secret craft made my man. Where that tech/materials came from is the big mystery.

Also as for ghosts/deamons I can show you a vid that is 100% genuine and is the biggest mystery of my life. Im no BS person so I tell you what........ If you or anyone can find ANYTHING fraudulent about this vid/pic then ill give you £1,000 no joke. Hell if it goes that far ill try and get the originals from the person who took the pic.


----------



## _02

Edit - sry this is long but relevant to the discussion (and sadly wandering a bit OT)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> If u READ the FAA manual for your country. Its actually wrote in it that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are the seeing of 'ufo' to be discussed. Its wrote on paper look it up.


Yes









But don't you think it makes more sense that they prevent aviators (Federal Aviation Administration for those that don't know the acronym) from talking about UFO sightings to prevent any leak of classified craft they may run into (which would be undoubtedly interpreted as a UFO)? The skies are full of commercial flights that could catch a glimpse of a classified test flight. And I'm thinking astronomers, meteorologists and SETI researchers aren't bound by the FAA regulations.

And that's been the general case with all the info I see. It just doesn't stand up well to inspection but it makes an awesome story. I've been enthralled by this stuff since my dad gave me a huge book on mysteries when I was a kid, but the older I get, the more the magic is surface and the more I'm able to explain it all away without trying too hard.

All said and done, it is if nothing else entertaining.

If anyone is interested, here is what the FAA says:
Quote:


> ORDER
> JO 7110.65U
> Effective Date:
> February 9, 2012
> 
> Section 8. Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Reports
> 
> 9-8-1. GENERAL
> 
> a. Persons wanting to report UFO/unexplained phenomena activity should contact a UFO/ unexplained phenomena reporting data collection center, such as Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) (voice: 1-877-979-7444 or e-mail: [email protected]), the National UFO Reporting Center, etc.
> 
> b. If concern is expressed that life or property might be endangered, report the activity to the local law enforcement department.


The youtube vid is creepy, but there are again reasons I can explain it away with. The human mind is trained to see facial features biologically. Sure, it looks like a face, but we require very minimal detail to assume the facial features of a human in the patterns generated by increasing contrast and brightness of what could be noise. If it were not wearing a hood and I could also see arms, legs, fingers - sure. But what's all the other amorphous black stuff around it? Why are all these anomalies only captured in single frames requiring lots of processing to make apparent?

Think about how people recognize patterns in clouds man. I don't doubt that is genuine, but I think it is just coincidence misinterpreted. I still have never seen anything that strikes me as not easily explained by things like that.

Edit - Sorry for the crazy long post but I found a paper talking about how our brains can see faces in images containing only noise:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2634849/
Quote:


> Because experiments typically involve actual images of faces, most studies of top-down face processing fail to isolate top-down effects from the activations engendered by strong bottom-up visual input. To minimize contamination from bottom-up input, we used a novel experimental paradigm *that induces illusory detection of faces while viewing complex noisy images*


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> The thing with the 1st UFO, was that I live in the contryside and have walked into my kitchen many times at night and know where the lights are placed (on the lane next to me there is only 1 light in the entire area and its orange/yellow). Off in the distance in the North I saw a big ball of white light, looked like a star blown up 100% in the feild close to my house. I cant guess the distance as I didnt know how far it was from the ground. Before anyone asks, no I wasnt drunk etc it was in the middle of the working week.
> 
> I watched the thing for about a min and then thought. 'I wonder if I can get a pic/video of this thing in normal night mode and then in negative mode'. I ran back to my games room to grab my phone and managed to get back with enough time that it was still there. I was setting my phone to night mode when I saw the thing move to the left at a 45* angle for about 2 seconds at a slowish speed. It then moved upwards a little bit at the same speed and then shot off into the night sky upwards at an insane speed. It was gone far from sight within 1 second......tbh I was gutted as I would have liked to have got it on camera or at least got a picture.
> 
> As for knowing if it was extraterrestrial, I dont know tbh. If it was from a goverment from wherever (USA, UK, Russia, China etc). But the one thing I do know is no human could of been inside of it, as the speed it pulled was astonishing to say the least.
> 
> The curious thing is I do live closeish to a military base which is fairly small. So it could of been a secret drone of some sorts.


Interesting..


----------



## microfister

:clears Throat:

dont tell me what aliens can and cant make a UFO out of. perhaps they've mastered speed flight and travel but havn't quite figured out raw materials... or landing...

and as for man made UFO sightings.... FAR FAR more common than you think. simply because there are so many false sightings, no government is required to step forward and say "yea, that's ours." besides, those UAVs that are actually in combat zones now, were flying and blowing **** up before the myth of the giant Spectre Dragon.

remember that probe droid at the beginning of the empire strikes back? ive seen one of those first hand through a thermal camera in afghanistan, essentially doing the exact same thing it did in the movie. didnt fly, hovered, and took off extremely fast after about 1 and a half minutes of filming. great thing about stuff like that, if you see it, the controler for said "UFO" can probably see you seeing it, and in most cases they can wipe your data without you even knowing it. again first hand, had a massive system failure about 3 days later and all recordings in our AO had been lost.

ive also seen at least two manbearpigs(or at least the same one twice), a wild pack of children, a picture that kills, and a real freakin light saber!....

oh, and for those that laughed at those reports of taliban training monkeys, not a joke either. and truly terrifying


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But don't you think it makes more sense that they prevent aviators (Federal Aviation Administration for those that don't know the acronym) from talking about UFO sightings to prevent any leak of classified craft they may run into (which would be undoubtedly interpreted as a UFO)? The skies are full of commercial flights that could catch a glimpse of a classified test flight. And I'm thinking astronomers, meteorologists and SETI researchers aren't bound by the FAA regulations.
> And that's been the general case with all the info I see. It just doesn't stand up well to inspection.


Yeah for sure. Your right. We dont know although in our countries its nor a UFO/Aliens/Another UFO craft from another superpower, even though in some cases a fair few people saw the same thing to say the least.
Quote:


> astronomers, meteorologists and SETI researchers aren't bound by the FAA regulations.


Well SETI is owned by NASA which is a military branch which spews out as much information as it does disinformation. Thats why the closed the nasa buzzroom which allowed fairly intelegent people like most of us to discuss things that we dont know. Theories which drive humans foward thats just my opinion.

As for Astronomers/meteorologists if you try speak about truthfull findings ESPECIALLY in the metrology feild you will either shut up with hard facts or will end up dead. IMO.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *microfister*
> 
> :clears Throat:
> dont tell me what aliens can and cant make a UFO out of. perhaps they've mastered speed flight and travel but havn't quite figured out raw materials... or landing...
> and as for man made UFO sightings.... FAR FAR more common than you think. simply because there are so many false sightings, no government is required to step forward and say "yea, that's ours." besides, those UAVs that are actually in combat zones now, were flying and blowing **** up before the myth of the giant Spectre Dragon.
> remember that probe droid at the beginning of the empire strikes back? ive seen one of those first hand through a thermal camera in afghanistan, essentially doing the exact same thing it did in the movie. didnt fly, hovered, and took off extremely fast after about 1 and a half minutes of filming. great thing about stuff like that, if you see it, the controler for said "UFO" can probably see you seeing it, and in most cases they can wipe your data without you even knowing it. again first hand, had a massive system failure about 3 days later and all recordings in our AO had been lost.
> ive also seen at least two manbearpigs(or at least the same one twice), a wild pack of children, a picture that kills, and a real freakin light saber!....
> oh, and for those that laughed at those reports of taliban training monkeys, not a joke either. and truly terrifying


First of all im realy glad there is an intelligent conversation going on here with open minded people. Thats what its all about, nothing is 100% certain.

As for the UFO seeing you idea. I think thats exactly what happened to me.


----------



## microfister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> First of all im realy glad there is an intelligent conversation going on here with open minded people. Thats what its all about, nothing is 100% certain.
> As for the UFO seeing you idea. I think thats exactly what happened to me.


like i said, far FAR more common than anyone would think.

manbearpig is the only technical lie i dropped. but theres no easy explination for what we saw... hills have eyes afghanistan maybe, but the damn thing was easily 6ft tall and carrying a coyote in its mouth while walking on hind legs... terrifying, specially when you see it before a bunch of night patrols


----------



## GanjaSMK

@Flack88

It's pretty easy to see how that 'mysterious person' that appeared in the frame was just walking. There are no after-frames, only one prior frame, and it clearly looks like a black woman walking by. A rather very dark black woman, but a black woman none the less.

I mean - I don't get why it seems so mysterious, as it seems very easily apparent that it is just a person walking by that was out hidden behind cars in the previous frame.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *microfister*
> 
> like i said, far FAR more common than anyone would think.
> manbearpig is the only technical lie i dropped. but theres no easy explination for what we saw... hills have eyes afghanistan maybe, but the damn thing was easily 6ft tall and carrying a coyote in its mouth while walking on hind legs... terrifying, specially when you see it before a bunch of night patrols


LOL I belive you, but thats kinda like bigfoot, it exists for sure although id like to know more, id say ask the locals but in afghanistan.....that might not be the best idea lol..

But lets stay on topic







We got a good conversation on the go


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> @Flack88
> It's pretty easy to see how that 'mysterious person' that appeared in the frame was just walking. There are no after-frames, only one prior frame, and it clearly looks like a black woman walking by. A rather very dark black woman, but a black woman none the less.
> I mean - I don't get why it seems so mysterious, as it seems very easily apparent that it is just a person walking by that was out hidden behind cars in the previous frame.


I see your logic as thats the Exact same approach we took looking at it. So explain this to me, why is the face shown in that messed up way and if you pay attention to the speed of shots taken it makes no sense......And why is the dress looking weird for 2006? Looks to me personally like a victorian dress.


----------



## kzone75

And by the "interesting" statement earlier I meant that I've seen the same thing.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> So explain this to me, why is the face shown in that messed up way


Check my post I edited above with a link to an NIH paper - faces are (by nature of our brain's wiring) detectable in generated noise images and you don't see the face until they bump contrast and brightness - which make noise more apparent. In other words, we are designed to see faces so naturally that even a noise image can cause us to "see" a face when it really is just noise.

And a still image can be interpreted in a million ways but actually be something that looks very different.


----------



## eugenekrabs




----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> Check my post I edited above with a link to an NIH paper - faces are (by nature of our brain's wiring) detectable in generated noise images and you don't see the face until they bump contrast and brightness - which make noise more apparent. In other words, we are designed to see faces so naturally that even a noise image can cause us to "see" a face when it really is just noise.
> And a still image can be interpreted in a million ways but actually be something that looks very different.


So how do you explain it not being there and then magically appearing? Where the white car is located is leading up to a roundabout on the right of the vid, which is roughly about 3 metres away from the roundabout. Also where it looks to appear is on a path which leads to the left of the video. My point being, why would somebody be walking along a path suddenly appear sideways facing directly towards the camera. In what appears to be a victorian dress. There is a crossing literally 1 metre away to the right from where that pic was taken. Also how do you explain the body proportions which dont make sense.

Anyway im off to bed its 2am in the uk and im getting tired.


----------



## GanjaSMK

@Flack88

It doesn't look Victorian era to me; it looks like a black woman with long hair. I don't even see much of her body/top except for head and hair mostly. And again - let's assume you're not paying attention to that area of the picture well enough not to have noticed her from that perspective, before you took the shots. If that's the case then it's easily just a person whom you didn't notice before but did after, as she's caught in the shot.

What about the following frames? Did you take more subsequent frames with the tail of the white vehicle trailing that area? I mean - it's hard to justify anything when you don't have before, during, and after to compare against.

And G'night -







resume with some time tomorrow.


----------



## Flack88

Ill try get the originals tonight/today. I see where you are comming from, I was skeptical (blagged as we call it in the UK). You brought up a a very valid point btw GanjaSMK, there should be some shots afterwards. What you also have to bear in mind is this isnt some hoax, they were shots from a client who wanted a website. BTW I did not take the shots However. I did personally know the person who took the shots and he isnt sombody to spend time messing about with photoshop etc which is why its so strange, if you want to go into details of photo manipulation then you will soon run into a dead end; I garuntee that lol.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> So how do you explain it not being there and then magically appearing?


These aren't back to back video frames. These are pictures separated by a quarter of a minute.

The fact that it faces directly at the camera is more suspect to me than it being caught NOT looking at the camera. Something square to an optical lens strikes me as a function of light being reflected. It is much more likely an object would not be facing the camera square on like that. Now let me list the things that have already jumped out at me, and I'm not being adversarial, I'm just being objective and thinking critically:

- Why take a high resolution image of an anomaly and show it at one of the lowest resolutions possible on Youtube
- Youtube compression increases noise, which I can show empirically increases the likelihood of seeing a face when there isn't one
- Why crop the image to avoid showing signs, but then blur license plates. Why not blur signs?
- The difference in time to be 10-15 seconds after the first pic cant be based on the two reference points that move unless they know its speed
- There are no before or after frames so you can't tell if it appeared suddenly or not
- 10-15 seconds (assuming accurate) is far from sudden, and long enough to walk that whole frame and then some
- Based on the 10-15 seconds it takes the car to go 10-20 inches, the car is going .05mph which is extremely slow
- Average human is somewhere around 3mph

The most telling to me (and what makes me think I'm missing something) is that they say they can tell the pics are 15 seconds apart by telling how far the two reference points moved. That makes the assumption that they know the cars speed, because if it were traveling very fast, it would take much less time to move that distance compared to if it were traveling slow. There is no way I can tell that they knew the speed, so the relationship they imply seems impossible to me.

I never trust myself when I see something that appears so blatant, and I didn't notice that when I watched it the first 2 or 3 times, so I watched the video 4 more times. If I'm wrong please tell me.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02*
> 
> The fact that it faces directly at the camera is more suspect to me than it being caught NOT looking at the camera. Something square to an optical lens strikes me as a function of light being reflected. Now let me list the things that have already jumped out at me, and I'm not being adversarial, I'm just being objective and thinking critically:
> - Why take a high resolution image of an anomaly and show it at one of the lowest resolutions possible on Youtube, when it can be shown at 1080
> - They've increased the noise via compression, which I can show empirically increases the likelihood of seeing a face when there isn't one.
> - Why crop the image to avoid showing signs, but then blur license plates. Why not blur signs?
> - They claim to show the difference in time to be 10-15 seconds after the first pic based on the two reference points that move. Those points only indicate distance, not speed or travel time
> - There are no before or after frames so you can't tell if it appeared suddenly or not. 10-15 seconds (assuming accurate) is far from sudden, and long enough to walk that whole frame and then some
> - Based on the 10-15 seconds it takes the car to go 10-20 inches, the car is going .05mph which is extremely slow. Average human is somewhere around 3mph
> The most telling to me (and what makes me think I'm missing something) is that they say they can tell the pics are 15 seconds apart by telling how far the two reference points moved. That makes the assumption that they know the cars speed, because if it were traveling very fast, it would take much less time to move that distance compared to if it were traveling slow. There is no way I can tell that they knew the speed, so the relationship they imply seems impossible to me.


Fair enough ill try get the original's although its not garunteed. I totally appreciate your skepticism, hell if somebody posted a vid like that to me id be in your shoes lol, I dont belive most of what I read and see on the internet. But when somebody you trust 100% comes 'round' and puts that on the desk who you know wont lie (who is also a hardcore atheist for the time Iv known them......Its kinda hard to deny.

As for your last point its comming up to a roundabout where speed is 5-10mph slowing down to 0 lol.....English traffic. Also as for cropping images you cant show companys signs as the whole ghost train will jump on it and destroy business.

Right im actually now going to bed, after a bit of doom 3 ROE with high res textures and sikkmod lol. Which im probs gonna be crapping my pants at every moment thanks to this thread.


----------



## GanjaSMK

@Flack88

Oh I'm not saying its some sort of hoax at all.









I'm only trying to present the most reasonable and logical explanation available based on what you see, considering it was presented as 'ghostly'.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> Fair enough ill try get the original's although its not garunteed. I totally appreciate your skepticism, hell if somebody posted a vid like that to me id be in your shoes lol, I dont belive most of what I read and see on the internet. But when somebody you trust 100% comes 'round' and puts that on the desk who you know wont lie (who is also a hardcore atheist for the time Iv known them......Its kinda hard to deny.


I'm glad you're accepting - that's why I preface with things like "I'm not being a jerk here". If you notice, I even question my own correctness at the end. Its all about arriving at the likeliness of truth, not correctness of what we assume to be true.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> As for your 1st question I dont know tbh. Id say 80% of sightings are top secret craft made my man.


What's that based on?

But yeah, my main point still stands. If UFOs/alien visits have convincing evidence behind it, why isn't it a commonly held notion that they exist? Everything else that has convincing and real evidence for it, serious people hold them to be true.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> Also as for ghosts/deamons I can show you a vid that is 100% genuine and is the biggest mystery of my life. Im no BS person so I tell you what........ If you or anyone can find ANYTHING fraudulent about this vid/pic then ill give you £1,000 no joke. Hell if it goes that far ill try and get the originals from the person who took the pic.


I don't see what's so special about that video. People have been known to do hoaxes. That seems like a pretty easy edit to do.

I'm actually not sure if you're serious at this point or not, but what's so convincing about that video?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> As for Astronomers/meteorologists if you try speak about truthfull findings ESPECIALLY in the metrology feild you will either shut up with hard facts or will end up dead.


What?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> I see your logic as thats the Exact same approach we took looking at it. So explain this to me, why is the face shown in that messed up way and if you pay attention to the speed of shots taken it makes no sense......And why is the dress looking weird for 2006? Looks to me personally like a victorian dress.


I've also seen very, very realistic video with actual size dinosaurs appearing together with cars, modern buildings, and celebrities.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88*
> 
> Well SETI is owned by NASA which is a military branch which spews out as much information as it does disinformation. Thats why the closed the nasa buzzroom which allowed fairly intelegent people like most of us to discuss things that we dont know. Theories which drive humans foward thats just my opinion.
> As for Astronomers/meteorologists if you try speak about truthfull findings ESPECIALLY in the metrology feild you will either shut up with hard facts or will end up dead. IMO.


The SETI Institute is a non-profit that works with NASA and a number of universities. It isn't owned by any government agency. And NASA is not a branch of the military, it's a free-standing agency. The astronauts are mostly USAF but the scientists, engineers, and management are almost entirely civilian.

You're a terrible conspiracy theorist if you don't even know basic facts like that.


----------



## freedumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> The SETI Institute is a non-profit that works with NASA and a number of universities. It isn't owned by any government agency. And NASA is not a branch of the military, it's a free-standing agency. The astronauts are mostly USAF but the scientists, engineers, and management are almost entirely civilian.
> You're a terrible conspiracy theorist if you don't even know basic facts like that.


shazam


----------



## fonzye

We will never know the truth,they control us,we watch some rocks and a piece of metal and we say WHOOOO aliens,my ass that's just pathetic.


----------



## battosaii

my mom's ex husband has a Polaroid someone took of him and his daughter and in the picture showed up some smoke around them and some of the smoke formed a very very clear face.

later on i found out that the face was of his deceased first wife that had died of cancer and ive seen pictures of her when she was alive it was the same face.

i never took a picture of the Polaroid with my own camera because i was younger and just scared of stirring up some bad juju hell i was always afraid to even look at it. i know no one will believe me hell i wouldnt believe me but i did see it more then once he didnt hide it the pic was pinned up in his office.

anyway i wouldnt even know how to hoax something like that on a polaroid sure in photoshop but not on a polaroid

sadly i no longer have access to the picture since my mom is divorced but if did i would snap a pic.


----------



## jacksknight

Holy cow, you guys are still talking about the rocks?


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jacksknight*
> 
> Holy cow, you guys are still talking about the rocks?


Because there is so much interesting BS about these rocks!
















They......

* Could be magic rocks
* Could be special LAVA rocks
* Could be super-fused-alien rocks
* Could be normal rocks
* Could be rocks that were once skipped on the oceans of the Earth from millions of years ago by a giant on an ancient beach
* Could be holograms instead of rocks
* Could be miniature alien vessels departed from Mars in 1300 BCE
* Could be Chinese baoding balls and not rocks
* Could be dinosaur eggs (ready to hatch!)
* Could be little tiny undersea ninjas that are hiding and waiting for a fight
* Could be the worlds newest truffles only found under water and taste better than French truffles
* Could be rocks

I mean...... WE JUST DON'T KNOW CONCLUSIVELY YET.


----------



## [email protected]

I bet that video should go to Faked or Fact Paranormal Files. I still think someone is creating a motion blur effect but than again i do believe the paranormal world. EVP has much better evidence


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *78[email protected]*
> 
> I bet that video should go to Faked or Fact Paranormal Files. I still think someone is creating a motion blur effect but than again i do believe the paranormal world. EVP has much better evidence


Mind providing some of said evidence?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Mind providing some of said evidence?


Conspiracy theorists don't provide [credible] evidence. I've yet to see any proof of any conspiracy theory out there: Ghosts, Big Foot, alien spacecraft, Atlantis, 9/11 hoax, chupacabra, yeti, Lochness monster, mermaids, etc. Here's the problem with all of these kinds of theories, they're based on eye-witness accounts and videos that can be completely faked, or videos that prove nothing. They need to bring some hard evidence (something reliably reproduce-able, or undeniable), or else not bother bringing anything up at all. Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of video of things that cannot be identified, but if it can't be identified then people need to stop calling it something else, like a ghost or aliens, if it's unidentified, then call it what it is....unidentified.


----------



## gtarmanrob

its the ruins of an Annunaki ship. discovered just in time to celebrate their return to us this December


----------



## jacksknight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GanjaSMK*
> 
> Because there is so much interesting BS about these rocks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They......
> * Could be magic rocks
> * Could be special LAVA rocks
> * Could be super-fused-alien rocks
> * Could be normal rocks
> * Could be rocks that were once skipped on the oceans of the Earth from millions of years ago by a giant on an ancient beach
> * Could be holograms instead of rocks
> * Could be miniature alien vessels departed from Mars in 1300 BCE
> * Could be Chinese baoding balls and not rocks
> * Could be dinosaur eggs (ready to hatch!)
> * Could be little tiny undersea ninjas that are hiding and waiting for a fight
> * Could be the worlds newest truffles only found under water and taste better than French truffles
> * Could be rocks
> I mean...... WE JUST DON'T KNOW CONCLUSIVELY YET.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ve1ocity

There has been so many assumptions and accusations on these rocks in the recent weeks, it's quite astounding.

A local Radio host (Clyde Lewis) here in Portland OR, had the "finder" / explorer Peter Lindberg on his show Ground Zero. the link below is a quick overview of the interview, Peter Lindberg is quoted in this article, and in this particular case his (Peter Lindberg and his crew) should be the only credible eye witnesses of this anomaly.

Every other "theory of Nazis, UFOs, etc Peter has made no credence towards, however he has acknowledged this (at the time of interview) he is keeping an "open scientifically open mind on the anomaly."

Link

Hope this gives better insight, of factual information.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Conspiracy theorists don't provide [credible] evidence. I've yet to see any proof of any conspiracy theory out there: Ghosts, Big Foot, alien spacecraft, Atlantis, 9/11 hoax, chupacabra, yeti, Lochness monster, mermaids, etc. Here's the problem with all of these kinds of theories, they're based on eye-witness accounts and videos that can be completely faked, or videos that prove nothing. They need to bring some hard evidence (something reliably reproduce-able, or undeniable), or else not bother bringing anything up at all. Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of video of things that cannot be identified, but if it can't be identified then people need to stop calling it something else, like a ghost or aliens, if it's unidentified, then call it what it is....unidentified.


I know, I was just hoping for a laugh


----------

